CREDIT 101: The Ethics of Credit Repair, 9/8/2005 CREDIT 102: A Consumer Law Overview, 9/22/2005 CREDIT 103: Credit Reports & Credit Scores, 10/6/2005 CREDIT 104: Triaging Your Reports, 10/20, 2005 CREDIT 105: FCRA Street Fighting, 11/3/2005 CREDIT 106: FCBA Street Fighting, 11/17/2005 CREDIT 107: FDCPA Street Fighting, 12/1/2005 CREDIT 108: Small Claims Lawsuits, 12/15/2005


LESSON ONE TRANSCRIPT CREDIT 101: The Ethics of Credit Repair, 9/8/2005 First, when we talk about credit repair we're talking about a number of things really. Is credit repair about making your credit report more accurate? Is credit repair about "fixing" your credit report? What's credit repair? Is credit repair about getting better rates on loans? Getting credit cards? Buying a car? Is credit repair about debt negotiation? Debt reduction? Debt elimination? Learning tricks to improve your credit score? When you talk about getting your life back in order, I'm guessing that (like me at one time) bad credit has caused some heartache for you!? I remember when I couldn't buy a car... We'll touch on all of these during the next few weeks, but the emphasis will be upon removing negatives from your credit report. When negatives peel away, your credit score typically improves. And when that happens, you'll get better rates on loans. Moreover, as a happy consequence of confronting what's on your credit report, you may find that alleged (I'll explain that adjective in Lesson 7) creditors may forgive alleged debts. But debt forgiveness is a possible symptom. My emphasis is about your credit reports. Everyone has to define their own emphasis though. I've done some writing and seminar facilitation for The Motley Fool (, and I got into a bit of trouble as a result of that involvement one fine autumn day a couple of years ago. Equifax was (and maybe continues to be) an advertiser with their website, and they didn't much like it when I wrote stuff like this... to quote... "There are a few hardball tactics which you can use with the bureaus and creditors that will compel them to remove negative tradelines, irrespective of accuracy, from your credit reports." Basically, Equifax contended that I was breaking the law when I made that statement, and my Foolish colleagues agreed. So we watered down my statements a bit. We gave in. We caved. We sold out. QUESTION for discussion... Does anybody know how my statements may have constituted lawbreaking? anybody know why Equifax thought I'd broken the law? all of us who tell another human being is defined as a CRO by federal law... crazy huh Section 404 ("Prohibited Practices") of the Credit Repair Organizations Act (CROA) reads, "No person may..."Now before I say another word, note that


CROA doesn't say, "No credit repair organization may..." or even "No organization may..." Rather it says, "No person may..." and continues "make any statement, or counsel or advise any consumer to make any statement, which is untrue or misleading... with respect to any consumer's credit worthiness, credit standing, or credit capacity to... any [credit bureau]... or any creditor." it almost seems to violate the First Amendment! Nobody's ever challenged that incourt. I think it would fall flat. But... As I sit here tonight I am a CRO of one person. Equifax basically said that the phrase "irrespective of accuracy" meant that I was advising people to disregard the truth when making statements about themselves, that this violated federal law, and that if I didn't revise my tune they might not be interested in advertising with The Motley Fool anymore. Guess what? Equifax was wrong. There ARE some things which may compel a credit bureau or creditor to remove items from a credit report IRRESPECTIVE OF ACCURACY... and YOU DON'T HAVE TO TELL LIES in order for that to happen. In fact, let me say it more plainly...I call these PSYCHDOC'S FIVE BASIC CREDIT REPAIR PRINCIPLES... 1) You should always TELL THE TRUTH when communicating with credit bureaus and those companies which report to them. 2) Telling the truth is usually more INTIMIDATING to those entities. 3) Telling the truth is almost always more EFFECTIVE vis-a-vis your goals. 4) Credit repair involves INTERVENTIONS which invoke one of three TRUTHFUL communication tactics: a) polite requests, b} requests for information, and c) legal demands. and the last one... 5) Credit repair involves leveraging your FEDERAL CIVIL RIGHTS in the service of improving your credit rating. Another quick definition... I use the word INTERVENTION a lot. Basically a credit repair intervention is anything you do to intervene against the current credit status quo. Interventions include credit bureau disputes, goodwill requests, escalated information requests (which include creditor-directed communications like the "Nutcase" series and other effective tactics), formal requests for validation, and more. Such interventions usually take the form of things like hard-


"not mine. smile. phone calls [iffy]. and it is reported as late because it was truly late. The bureaus don't want to get a letter from somebody who knows their rights and who can spell out what it is they need to far worse for them potentially.. if indeed you wanted to take the bureau to court.. Will provide some letters. it's the difference between saying. gee whiz.gif well." When you say... ha. does anybody have any ideas how one can dispute an accurate negative listing without lying? Discussion question. "It's not mine" (and it's yours). etc. Otherwise please delete this damaging data. I sued all three CRAs in small claims court a few years ago. though.. consider this: In the case of credit bureau disputes. but you're not shouting.. Now. "The Sears tradeline (account 12345) is not mine" versus "Provide documentation that the Sears tradeline (account 12345) belongs on my credit report and that my rights have not been abrogated. But that's not where this lesson is heading. I have ALWAYS contended that truthful words are more intimidating than a simple lie. how can one dispute an accurate negative without lying? any old-timers care to chime in? well. You're presenting yourself as someone I like to term "a litigious nutcase"... But a carefully written letter that reveals the writer to be educated to their rights. templates. depending].. You want your documentation with them to be 100% honest and on the mark.copy letters [best].. etc..We'll explore ETHICAL DISPUTING examples more fully in the fifth lesson (CREDIT 105: FCRA Street Fighting) For now. I would say "Please show documentation that the creditor gave evidence of their permissible purpose when requesting access to my report. Well. how can one dispute a negative that is accurate with a credit bureau without telling a lie? As an aside right now. you're treading some really rough're not being 4 . smoke signals [forget it].. many people have achieved great results saying. internet-based communications [sometimes ok.. Otherwise you are bound by federal law to remove this inquiry now. We'll talk about small claims in Lesson 8.. The CRAs read lies all the time. It wasn't as tough as that sounds.... The problem comes later. The same logic applies to creditors as with CRAs. what if it's yours? What if something is yours on your report....we'll definitely have a hard copy discussion . With inquiries. I've been asked.

Otherwise 5 .. "Pursuant to my rights under the Fair Credit Billing Act. In fact. b} "requests for information" . Lesson 6 or debt validation (Lesson 7) where basically you're asking the CRA (in the case of the HONEST AND ETHICAL dispute I mentioned before) or the creditor for more information that they simply don't want to take the time to provide necessariliy. In the case of credit bureau disputes.. the line is drawn in the sand.. They don't know where you're coming from.. That's a very over-simplified way to "map" it out in your mind. b} requests for information. and for FCBA escalated information requests.. The truth is in the asking If you look back over this transcript in the chat window to where I talked about the types of interventions (my fourth basic law...) 4) Credit repair involves INTERVENTIONS which invoke one of three TRUTHFUL communication tactics: a) polite requests." Then their heads spin (you hope.... "This wasn't mine" and they basically know different.. FDCPA compels third party collectors.will simply delete the negs rather than fool with it.. FCBA compels original creditors.and they often do.impolite. When you say. FCRA compels credit bureaus. you're not making accusations.. and I was famous for repeating myself.. That's the desired outcome for FDCPA validation. and you're not telling lies. lol) Much more powerful. Some creditors in that situation-. When you say. Or it may just be you begging Lowe's credit to remove that 30 day late from 3 years ago (which they may do).. we'll open that bag of worms in Lesson 7 oops.. those types of interventions include original creditor "validation" (so-called... I used to teach child psych at the University of Tennessee..especially if the stakes are low -. "The Sears tradeline (account 12345) is not mine" versus "Provide documentation that the Sears tradeline (account 12345) belongs on my credit report and that my rights have not been abrogated. and c) legal demands. and that's better... it's the difference between saying. and for CRA disputes as well CRAs don't provide account information like that but they are compelled to provide the information that federal law spells out in the FDCPA in the FCRA....with respect to CRAs. ha but I want to repeat one thing that was a cut and paste from earlier. Polite requests may be goodwill requests. please provide documentation regarding every transaction ever associated with this account.

1) Be serious. and become more familiar with the law and become more comfortable with the material. Once you know. and I'll interject from my prepared notes..those laws include." "If these items appear in error.. A note about attitude... I just never understood those consumer advocates who believed that they needed to advise others to tell lies..... "Provide documentation that the Sears tradeline (account 12345) belongs on my credit report and that my rights have not been abrogated. those words will have the same impact as a "not mine" -. "Demonstrate that this material appears correctly on my reports.except more powerful because they don't know where you're going next (EVEN THOUGH YOU DIDN'T THREATEN A LAWSUIT EITHER) brevity is good Ok.. 2) Learn about the various laws discussed on Creditboards. the last portion of tonight's syllabus.. and you'll likely share them with others! Then.. you'll lead a class like this.. minimally. a few suggestions have worked for me. I have a cause for action because my rights may have been abrogated in that case.think of your own words but the point is the same ask them to prove it and don't you lie To risk moving away from psychology and entering the realm of the preacher.. ha. You'll find yourself creating variations on those kinds of interventions.. lies just don't work as well... The CROA notwithstanding. you could group a couple together..... In this regard.. You could send them separate. (If you still find the material interesting..... and interact with others on Creditboards.please delete this damaging know your goals before you embark. 6 .. It's helpful in credit repair.... It's hard for me to get away from my background in psychology. that sample CRA dispute I just provided..."would probably get OLD fast..... "As you read the statute.) In other words. etc.... I think it was Missbee who said she wanted a house you just have to know what you want fantastic. in real with just about any worthwhile endeavor in life. Request ample documentation from these two alleged creditors. a few years later. So this brings us to the next item on tonight's syllabus What are your credit repair goals? We did cover this a bit at the beginning.You'll be more focused. Finally. Otherwise please delete this damaging data...." See what you can do. ha?! Now. LOL..

. threatening letters can be shelved in favor of ones which -. I'm not going to tell you whose calls these were. I've learned much from this individual. and any other written materials. THEN I WON'T PAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!" the consultant wailed. Those six things will keep you in good stead. because I have much respect for this particular person (even when some others sometimes don't).I was browsing the internet last week and listened to some recorded phone calls between a credit consultant and a few alleged creditors. embrace your friends on Creditboards. getting back to my suggestions 3) Embrace your community. (Ah yes. "DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND. Such documentation will likely become very helpful during your journey... yell. In every case. or make an ass of yourself. (I love it but I'm weird) then there's a wonderful other way to get it READ THE BOARDS these people make it so interesting "search" is good oops. I disagreed with the consultant's attitude.through ethical but escalated requests for information to which you are entitled -. Blue) one bit of controversy. the phone call descended into a crescendo of even though you probably aren't. YOU IDIOT!!!!!???????????" And on and on and ON AND ON AND ON.. (In this case. threaten. This ultimately gets you nothing that couldn't have been achieved without risking an aneurysm... Similarly.) 4) Retain all written correspondence. 6) Don't scream.simply irritate the other party into 7 . Regardless.FCRA FCBA FDCPA and even the Truth in Lending Act (which is a superset of the FCBA and a few other civil rights) HIPPA those are the ones you should get to know if you can if reading law outright bores ya... credit reports."IF YOU DON'T PROVIDE VALIDATION. They're your best allies.. 5) Make notes as if you're headed to court. The consultant was SCREAMING AND YELLING. that..

" "Picture the stance most often drawn by lawyers in a courtroom. They simply state their case. etc.." "Instead. END CREDIT 101 8 . you want your demands to be VERY clear right from the start -. Potential consequences should be stated politely as well. You don't want your adversary to believe that you are a "crank" who could NEVER be satisfied. as strongly and as seriously as possible. I once wrote an essay on another discussion board which included this suggestion: "Don't be a sonofabitch. (Can we say that on this board. They don't scream at adversaries unless they want to be admonished by the judge. Whatever you do." I'd like to quote myself here.submission. lol?) Nothing is farther from the truth. And you should state those demands politely.000 AND a formal apology AND admission of wrongdoing AND a brand new credit card AND self-mutilation. They don't beg." "Sonofabitches aren't satisfied with the tradeline deletion.. "Some people think that embracing a litigious mindset requires acting like a sonofabitch. They are matter-of-fact to a deadly degree.whatever those demands are. They don't threaten. Sonofabitches REQUIRE the tradeline deletion AND a monetary award of $10. Here's why. DON'T act like a sonofabitch.

. dub and rich. I should mention that the 8 lessons are divided into two sections.Brief review of the last session -3-.. Like last session. enough about last session. the first message. That transcript 9 ..LESSON TWO TRANSCRIPT CREDIT 102: A Consumer Law Overview. 9/22/2005 PSYCHDOC'S CREDIT REPAIR SCHOOL FOR BEGINNERS For those who have just joined us..Course overview and format (which we've already done) -2-.. there is a transcript for those newcomers here who would like to review that. Well..The laws we reference -5-.. just a quick note for those who weren't here before being polite doesn't necessarily mean being solicitous or kissing someone's behind essentially it means that a calm legal-based approach can be far more effective than a bunch of screaming and yelling someone who calmly demands that the other party comply with federal law is going to be far more of a threat than someone who thinks they're going to get great results by trying to intimidate the other side very true.interventions which leverage your RIGHTS as a citizen)..and the last five sessions (where we discuss the nitty-gritty of credit repair -..the first three lessons (where credit repair is framed as an ETHICAL enterprise in opposition to the many UNETHICAL business practices which comprise the consumer credit industry). Credit repair involves INTERVENTIONS which invoke one of three TRUTHFUL communication tactics: a) polite requests.. I hope we'll all learn something new. dubzero. Tonight's syllabus....How to invent credit repair interventions Basically. -1-. and c) legal demands.. but I especially hope that those who are new to their credit repair campaigns come away from these sessions with something that will contribute to their eventual success."Three Musts" for beginners -4-. b} requests for information.

time and again. worse. After that. Staying with the community and participating fully is 10 . 2. I had seen plenty of newcomers. it's a community. I want to mention my "Three Musts" for beginners. Some people introduce themselves. Creditboards isn't an emergency room. Then when it doesn't happen. Actually. lol. we never from them again. I'm new here. Since this is primarily a course for beginners. Or. you may not get an instant answer." What I was trying to do with that is help people to understand that they would indeed be accepted even if they didn't know anything at all. You've not only got to be willing to learn. either not post because they thought they didn't know enough to participate.can be found on the main credit repair board attached to a sticky message at the top. you've got to "keep coming back" as I once heard elsewhere. (I think that irritates everybody the most." The Creditboards swimming pool is warm. You must participate. and then wait for the ambulance to come to take them away to the Credit Repair Emergency Room where the experts will do all their work for them. Rather. I once spent an awful lot of time in another credit-related community preaching the virtues of "BE WILLING TO BE A NEWBIE FOR AWHILE BEFORE PROCLAIMING YOUR EXPERTISE. you've got to participate. so after you introduce yourself and state your problem. and always ask more questions. for goodness sakes. Just get in there and say. continue interacting. Rest assured. and they may well be thinking about what you've posted. this is really about attitude. they would try to present themselves as knowing more than they actually did know because they thought that was the clear path to acceptance. You must be willing to learn. For that is frequented by a whole bunch of folks who want nothing more than to help somebody get through what they once got through. people are already getting to know you. Creditboards. "Hey. and since it's likely that many other beginners will read these transcripts later. Or they didn't post because they were afraid that someone would think they're stupid. 1. and I want to learn and would appreciate anybody's help. you simply must feel free to identify yourself as somebody who's seeking help! And.) The truth is far better than some newcomers might expect. this is my situation. feel free to do it without apology. though.

3. ok. You 11 . But you've got to do it if you don't want to Very good stuff.). while we begin to talk about the legal basis for all of this it's bears mentioning for a moment that there are other tactics. get ready to at least READ ABOUT them.htm FCBA: http://www.pdf That's a pdf file (Adobe Acrobat) I would encourage you to at least look over them look at the subsection titles and dip in it will help as we move forward through the who's read the FCBA (if you don't know what that is. For those who are interested in HIPAA (more later) regarding medical accounts Here's a great link http://www. Now.htm FDCPA: http://www.ftc. you should still feel free to ask even basic questions.ftc. You'll definitely come across stuff that makes no sense to you at all. But even when others think you're an old grizzled expert. I'm not necessarily suggesting that you venture onto the Internet right now and find the laws we'll mention tonight and read them fully. Homework is not fun.hipaacomply. Make a commitment to yourself to read the daylights out of this board for a brief period of time before you do anything else. they're tough to read but if you can't make yourself read 'em as I said at least read ABOUT them as much as you can on the board here are a few links FCRA: http://www. Just as a bit of discussion Who here has actually read the FCRA? wow lots of frankly. and start reading. you'll probably find you're answering more questions than you're asking. Even the old-timers are still for one full week. You must read more than this. the material will begin to congeal. Over the long haul. Consider it your Master's Degree in Credit Repair. Just get in there.. On the other hand. I'm keeping in mind that there will be newcomers reading the transcript of this in the future so. One way to do that is to spend at least an hour a day reading Creditboards. (Of course that wouldn't be a bad idea. and many of the most successful among us have done just that.the key to your ultimate success. I'll detail that in a minute) FDCPA? FDCPA is one I would encourage you to read. but keep reading anyway. Now. and you will find yourself understanding more and more. If you do that for a significant amount of time.

Here. Regulates who has "permissable purpose" to acquire a consumer's report Limits how long information can be reported.The laws we most commonly reference are: The Fair Credit Reporting Act (FCRA). laws are chased and embraced -. which regulates debt collectors. to acquiring an IRS Taxpayer Information Number (TIN). all such methods risk loss of freedom.. which regulates health providers. to simply making up a Social Security number in accordance with some geographically-based insider information regarding the numbering scheme. In fact.. and establishing credit with that. Needless to say. Anytime you see an advertisement for "NEW CREDIT FILE OVERNIGHT. The Fair Credit Billing Act (FCBA). Sometimes members of this community use those laws to actually file lawsuits against abusive original creditors ("OCs" for short). which looks like a Social Security Number. The Fair Debt Collections Practices Act (FDCPA). and credit bureaus (officially "consumer reporting agencies" or "CRAs") to meet their goals. income. what is advocated here is putting Federal statutes to work in the service of improving your credit standing. As an aside.. Details how a CRA must handle disputes. Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996 (HIPAA).. The FCRA.. Truly legal credit repair is a gradual process that takes time to complete. the credit repair intervention commonly associated with this statute is of course the credit 12 ... which is a subset of the more comprehensive Truth in Lending Act. Here's a very very brief way to think about these.. collection agencies ("CAs"). I really like this second one (FCBA) It's not one we commonly use in this community..may have come across credit repair methods which are strictly illegal.rather than shunned and avoided. These range from booklets and consultants who will advise you to do everything from identifying someone near your age who died as a child and attempting to establish credit in their name. and community standing. but it forms the basis of most so-called "OC validation" interventions like the Nutcase Series and other good ones you'll see from time to time. to you-name-it. which essentially tells original creditors how they should behave. And of course." steer clear. More shortly.. Ensures access to credit reports. which basically tells the bureaus what they can and can't do.

just think about the credit repair possibilities.) The FTC summarizes the statute's prohibitions as follows: "unauthorized charges. for the life of the account." That's something that no original creditor wants to fool with. (But it can be your job to ask that your creditors comply as well. We'll cover the FCBA more fully in the sixth lesson November 17 (CREDIT 106: FCBA Street Fighting) FDCPA: What a goodie. in writing. charges for goods and services you didn't accept or weren't delivered as agreed.. or call it chopped liver. Keep in mind that the FCBA is actually intended to assist consumers with CURRENT charges in dispute.bureau dispute.provided the creditor receives your change of address. failure to post payments and other credits. failure to send bills to your current address -. We'll delve into the FCRA in more detail in the fifth lesson November 3 (CREDIT 105: FCRA Street Fighting) FCBA: The FCBA requires creditors to bill correctly and completely.even better -invent your own creative approach using the statute. And of course even though you WON'T accuse them of that (because perhaps they broke no laws). This constitutes a truthful request for information. such as returns. charges that list the wrong date or amount. LOL. Call this example FCBA Nutcase. ok. however creditors do not welcome the idea that they may have broken the law with your account even several years before. but a validation letter 13 . math errors. so I may be telling you what you already know. as well as a full accounting of where each bill was mailed. Who here has ever sent a validation letter? Great. or rescind these reports from every consumer reporting agency to which you have reported same. or -.. they almost always seem to get spooked when asked for such information. and charges for which you ask for an explanation or written proof of purchase along with a claimed error or request for clarification. and it's the FTC's job to make sure that the statute is universally applied. Your expeditious handling of this matter is expected. including charges and interest. at least 20 days before the billing period ends. Consider something like this: "In accordance with my Federal civil rights as stipulated by the Fair Credit Billing Act. you are obligated to comply with this lawful request for elaborated documentation for billing." As you read the list of requirements the FCBA stipulates.

the titans. CAs in particular would rather just move along to the next person who'll roll over. LOL. Here's why when you use somebody else's intervention letter. let's say that the FCRRRA stipulates that they must print their consumer credit reports with ink bought only from Cartier New York. They simply don't want to fool with your lawful request for information... You'll sometimes see the credit repair mavens. They cost less and pay more.. by letter -.. Such procedures are termed debt validation (as so many here know) and are so POWERFUL that we'll devote an entire lesson to the matter on December 1 (CREDIT 107: FDCPA Street Fighting). etc. or even if more people begin to create unique ones. let's say that the FCRRRA requires 14 . Again. And let's further pretend that that law requires these things: First. we'll get more into the detail of all of that in the FDCPA session. Specifically details a consumer's right to request further information regarding an alleged debt.) Allows the debtor to formally request (i. if you begin to create your own interventions. For the same reason that FCRA interventions (aka credit bureau disputes) and FCBA interventions (pestering OCs) work. Finally. Second. we'll all be better off collectively and it's pretty darned easy! well.hopefully certified and sent with return-receipt requested) that the CA "cease and desist" from communicating with the debtor further. But I want to talk more here at the start about the PHILOSOPHY of creating interventions. that's fine but when 25. Pretend for a moment that there was something called the FAIR CREDIT REPORT REQUIREMENT RAZZMATAZZ ACT (FCRRRA). (Before... it may be flagged. Most of that is interesting if you're way into an FDCPA intervention a quick mind-map of the FDCPA.. Specifies that CAs must always include several legal caveats in their dealings with debtors. CAs would employ all kinds of shenanigans to mislead consumers regarding who they were. argue about what constitutes true validation or which legal cases require what item.e.. it cuts even deeper than just using your own words (although I agree with that wholeheartedly).000 people use the same letter. Provides behavioral standards for acceptible third-party collections behavior. let's say that the FCRRRA says that CRAs must send thank you notes to creditors every time they report new information to them. but the wonderful thing is that validation requests often just work..

Sincerely. And if they don't comply with every bit of it. You're simply asking a company for information related to your account. remember that citizens (including you and me as well as corporate citizens) can't pick and choose which parts of a statute deserve compliance. In other words. Joe Consumer Essentially you're asking them to document their compliance. Rather. Finally. They must comply with the whole act. A good credit repair intervention wouldn't directly accuse the recipient of malfeasance (unless you are sure that they ABSOLUTELY did commit the malfeasance). HIPAA. FCBA. So. the best way to create a unique credit repair intervention is to take a close look at the federal statute in question (whether that's FCRA. show that such information was printed with ink requisitioned from Cartier New York. So. Moreover.Dear Equifax: Pursuant to the Fair Credit Report requirement Razzmatazz Act. and there are serious penalties for doing so. please remove the item from my report immediately. please demonstrate that you sent the required thank you notes to Citibank every time they forwarded new information related to my account (number 12345). it would look something like. the credit repair intervention would simply ask the other party to DOCUMENT THEIR COMPLIANCE with the law. FDCPA. and then ask the other party to show that they aren't behaving criminally. then they've broken the bureaus to mail their reports to consumers only on Thursdays. back to our silly fictional federal statute. the original creditor interventions like the "Nutcase Series" (HEY ORIGINAL CREDITOR – PROVIDE 15 . especially with respect to how that account has been reported to the credit bureaus. prove that you mailed the report in question to me on a Thursday. you aren't crafting lies. If corporate citizens like Equifax or Citibank or NCO violate a statute.. in this case. and some of those sometimes simply delete the offending tradeline rather than fool with it (or you) anymore. If such documentation cannot be provided. When you approach the matter this way. This approach is the essence of the credit bureau dispute (HEY BUREAU -SHOW ME YOU'RE COMPLIANT WITH THE FCRA). Now. they've likely injured a real person. or another state or federal law which you believe is relevant).. Sometimes companies don't want to take the time to address your lawful request in that manner.

I hope this example illustrates the similarities among the real credit repair interventions we commonly use.essentially that it's about demanding compliance and demanding information then you'll not only be in a terrific position to radically increase your credit rating (i.) but you'll be in a fantastic position to help others.... Asking for information is your right as a consumer. or an OC.. the rates you're offered. there's a choice point here for me. Lawyers love discovery simply because of the nuisance factor. etc. "GIVE AN ACCOUNTING OF YOUR RELATIONSHIP FROM THE BEGINNING UNTIL THE PRESENT..SHOW ME YOU HANDLED MY ACCOUNT IN WAYS THAT PROTECT MY PRIVACY). "wow.gif Once you get the hang of this. what nice people" and then I thought "wow. requesting information basically. Still.. and I received some accolades for a couple of interventions I created.... LOL!) rich." And then they look for discrepancies. If you really do head toward court eventually with some matter. is one that lawyers commonly use (what they sometimes term "discovery").. because I'm no guru (LKH will confirm that..... And that same principle works for you. lol.. or a CA.ALL THIS INFORMATION ABOUT MY ACCOUNT PURSUANT TO FCBA).. how do you think I ended up being a shrink? biggrin. and if you're in this room and I see that even as we near the end of this lesson." Instead they'll say.e.... I'll stay away from inventing anymore silly statutes because we've got too many real ones to discuss as we move forward.. your credit score.. You know. Does any of this resonate with anybody? (Hope so. we have 37 people still here.continue to indulge the guru thing or just convince others that they are the gurus the second is best..) This is basically the core method for how these crazy credit repair interventions get started.SHOW ME THE HISTORY AND PROVENANCE OF THE DEBT PER THE FDCPA)..... Lawyers don't say to their opponent during discovery anything like.. you'll probably collect a few discrepancies vis-a-vis some CRA's behavior. I was looking over the transcript for the last lesson.then you're probably VERY interested in the topic 16 . I have to UN-snow them" "I have to show them that there's no magic to this" I mean. Ok. debt validation (HEY COLLECTOR -. and HIPAA interventions (HEY DOC -... and I thought. "TELL ME WHY YOU BEAT YOUR WIFE (OR HUSBAND). This approach.

the court -. I hope something here was useful next time we'll delve into credit bureaus and credit reports . tougher than creditor tradelines.... see you in two weeks. Don't be nervous. and that new credit repair interventions based upon law are developed well. YOU DON'T OWE ANY MORE MONEY. that's it for this time.. Asking for information violates no laws..for information. You're simply demanding some information..gif You are now just a nuisance. Very interesting. Ask them to demonstrate that they abided by all laws. this is a terrific community and those of us who care about helping others who've been through what we've been through (like you) want to make sure that it continues to grow.. No.. Agreed or do it by letter. You're not threatening anybody.. There's no harm in asking the court to verify their procedures for reporting to credit bureaus You may see some this case. this strikes me as something that you should also post on the board about being worried re fooling with courts. Most people simply dispute and re-dispute with the CRAs until they're gone. You can ALWAYS ask your opponent -. THE JOY OF PESTERING that's the key! Ok.and will likely be among those people who'll help the NEXT group of beginners. ok. and credit scores and we'll talk about how to improve your score EVEN WITHOUT these intervention letters then we'll get into the street fighting Court records are tough. END CREDIT 102 17 . they're not required to delete.. THE CASE WAS SETTLED biggrin. lol. certified letter.

com. "mishegoss" is your word of the week.. Ahem. You are all now honorary Jewish people. months.Credit scores Tonight's session could easily have been the first one.QUICK ASIDE. in case you don't know who you are. Like last session.. First. let me do something we couldn't have done before the internet: I'd like to welcome those who have discovered these transcripts in future weeks.. But they have put up with a fair amount of mishegoss.. Now I'll turn away from such comments with a much browner nose and focus upon our task here.. Ok. and years. credit repair isn't primarily about the credit 18 . I hope we'll all learn something new. all of whom have poured a lot of care and sweat (and have endured heaping helpings of what we call in Yiddish "mishegoss" in return). 10/6/2005 Tonight's seminar. I hope something here proves helpful as you approach your own credit repair.. I've interacted with each of them through the years.LESSON THREE TRANSCRIPT CREDIT 103: Credit Reports & Credit Scores. Pam. LKH. It's nice to see some new faces and some returning ones too.just to benefit others.Two credit bureau myths -5-... Tonight's syllabus. and radi8..Brief review of the previous sessions -3-. Their commitment to consumer advocacy is astounding. but I especially hope that those who are new to their credit repair campaigns come away from these sessions with something which may contribute to their eventual success....Approaches to debt -4-. I'll endeavor not to be a meshugana tonight. This site. LOL). Creditboards. the third of eight.Course overview and format (which we've already done) -2-.. And. and I would like to express my appreciation once again for their invitation.. will focus upon credit bureaus and credit scores. breeze. is made possible by its owners (you know who you are. -1-. except that I didn't want to set the wrong tone for this.

especially at the beginning. your GOALS regarding debt will dictate how you go about tackling what appears on those reports. That's really what this is about. and that has to do with DEBT. so many credit repair interventions (and their co-curricular consumer protection statutes) aren't directed toward the credit bureaus at all. lol) regarding how you as a consumer have behaved when borrowing and repaying money. and take stock of one’s own approach to DEBT. it's about conducting ethical and lawful interventions in order to further your personal consumer credit goals --whatever they may be. as they can interlace nicely with FCRA.bureaus or about credit scores. health professionals. I'd like to back up a bit from that. in some cases. It's their legal responsibility to maintain accurate records. HOW YOU BORROW and HOW YOU REPAY debt are perhaps the two greatest influencers of credit scores. it doesn't make much sense to conduct a credit repair course for beginners without at least wearing out the usual yawn-inducing introduction you see just about everywhere.. Moreover. Suffice to say. LISTS OF UNPROVEN ALLEGATIONS. the consumer advocacy site PlanetFeedback. etc.even.. Rather. Critically. I said it. Experian. ("Others" may include the Better Business Bureau. perhaps more accurately stated. debt collectors. and others. FCBA. it's important to step back a bit from the credit repair task. and FDCPA based interventions." Argh. the credit bureaus maintain records (or. which goes something like this: "There are three major consumer reporting agencies.) Still. they're directed toward original creditors. and they maintain consumer records on hundreds of millions of Americans. Rather. Manipulating ones borrowing and repayment patterns is perhaps the quickest way to raising a credit score -. though. For that 19 . Nobody wants to be reminded to floss after brushing. and cut through to something more essential. More about that in a minute. Equifax. the Federal Trade Commission. this isn't what some folks want to hear. irrespective of what actually appears on the credit report. We'll begin to talk about these ancillary intervention opportunities in a few weeks. Second. and Even most court records that appear on such reports often have to do with debt. Generally. For those reasons. and it's your right as a consumer to ensure that they follow through in that regard.

are you already thinking about that home theater system you can buy now? If so. As an aside.isyour financial goal. unable to repay everything in a timely manner. I really like an article which appears on Creditboards (LINK) called "The Problem with Debt Settlement Companies" written by a seemingly limitless number of companies -. then reducing outstanding balances low should be an objective. 2) Reducing debt the least expensive way. Most importantly. let's assume that accumulating wealth (the first category) -. for that matter) have little debt and lots of money. Expanding these.OR. but I would be completely remiss if I didn't at least acknowledge the obvious: DEBT is what caused so many of our problems which necessitate credit repair in the first place. There are many approaches to debt. He discusses a widely advertised -. when the shiny new MasterCard arrives with a $10..method for dealing with debt. in other words.. this approach has a credit repair benefit: your credit scores will rise. It's a must read. so perhaps 5 or 10 minutes of this will be appreciated by someone out there at some point. reducing debt -.. 2) Eternal indebtedness. If becoming more financially stable is your goal. but here are two wide categories: 1) Wealth accumulation. Obviously. Interestingly. you'll be less susceptible to fiscal disaster if you have an emergency fund of real cash in case something unexpected happens.and so..reason.000 limit. 1) Is your long term goal to accumulate wealth? It almost goes without saying that the wealthiest people (and the wealthiest corporations. Ok. I won't spend too much time on this. How will you do it? There are three general approaches: 1) Reducing debt as quickly as possible. then you may find yourself overextended (and for most of us here. I should add the word "AGAIN" -me included). 2) Do you regard a brand new credit card as INCOME? In other words. I would encourage anyone in the second category to at least begin to think about how they've embraced and accumulated debt. and perhaps right back where you started. 20 .

The advantage of this approach is obviously the cost savings.and not the one with the highest interest rate. but she does offer an approach to debt reduction. since it may well be that the larger debts are ones which involve maxed-out revolving credit lines (a score killer). then you may not be able to do it the least expensive way. His is an extremely compelling argument. then you may not be able to do it in ways that will maximize your scores... This is different from 21 . Plus he's entertaining. While all three of these are worthy objectives. By the way. The disadvantages of this first approach are. and so on until everything's paid for. ahem. Hers involves prioritizing debt according to the actual cost of the money -.... Now Suze doesn't know much about credit repair. This approach affords psychological advantages relatively quickly because it's encouraging to repay something entirely and then move to the next one in turn. LOL yep. But he represents a viewpoint. (With apologies to "nutty" here. ha... if you goal is either of the first two.. then when that's taken care the approach favored by people like Suze Orman. That isn't my approach..usually involves what Dave Ramsey and other authors have termed the "debt snowball" approach.So this is about making choices. does anybody here ever listen to Dave Ramsey? He's an anti-debt fanatic.. And by the way.. it's not the least expensive way since you're focusing on repaying the SMALLEST DEBT first -.) Dave Ramsey's debt snowball approach involves repaying the smallest debt first.. the interest rate – and paying off the most "expensive" debt first... I recommend at least listening to what he has to say even if you (like me) aren't an anti-debt nut. they are very different.. If your goal is to reduce debt as quickly as possible.The first approach – reducing debt as quickly as possible -..3) Reducing debt in a way that will maximize your credit scores. taking that payment and applying it to the next largest one. a) Even if it's the most encouraging way to tackle debt (which is perhaps the most critical factor for some people) other words. Likewise. The second approach – reducing debt the least expensive way -.and b) It's not the most efficient way to raise your credit score.

.. $5. Interestingly. :) That's the irritating thing about credit.and it's true when we're considering all debt..000 of that then what's your overall utilization ratio? (simple math) Credit scores take into consideration BOTH types of utilization ratios.. and then you'll qualify for more that will help further..will give an example.. For those who are new to all of this information. let's say..the first obviously. overall. your score). this approach can result in DRAMATIC differences to a credit score. DTI (debt to income ratio) doesn't really matter much unless you're buying a house no problem I'll give an example..And the overall credit available to you is.000 line of credit And you've only spent $1. The disadvantage is that you can easily feel like less progress is being made especially if the most expensive debts are also your largest ones.. two very different approaches The third approach – reducing debt in ways that improve your credit score -.. say. That an example of a tradeline-specific utilization ratio..Your utilization ratio is the amount you owe on a debt divided by that debt's line of credit.Let's say you have three revolving lines of credit. Keep in mind this heuristic.000 of it... If you've spent... interestingly. like the first "debt snowball" approach. the use of the term "utilization ratio" brings us squarely into the realm of credit bureaus and credit scores.... Now...involves equalizing balances so that no debt's "utilization ratio" (the amount owed divided by the overall line of credit) is high and then paying down the various debts equally so that all the ratios lower together..LOWER UTILIZATION RATIOS = HIGHER CREDIT SCORES That's true whether we're considering an individual debt... You've got to struggle to improve your rating (your reports... Any consideration of improving your credit scores will ALWAYS factor in HOW your borrow and repay your debt. $20..000. That card has a 10% utilization ratio. Also. Does anybody now know what I mean by that? Just in case. but You apply for revolving credit and keep a low balance... Again. and then tackle cred's question example. but doesn't afford the psychological advantage of Dave Ramsey's "debt snowball" nor the cost savings of Orman's approach.. So it all depends upon your goals once again. some people (me included) believe that this is the LARGEST factor in credit scoring 22 ...You've got a Chase MasterCard with a $10. the focus isn't on your credit score. SO. By the way..

Unfortunately. and that's all a credit report is. your driving record maintained at your local statehouse.. let me ask a trick question. Like. LOL.. Incidentally. DEBT -. By the way.. other considerations that AREN'T helpful intruded.but also with regard to your CREDIT SCORE which DOES interest everyone here I think... It is unfortunate...." Even the erudite Suze Orman says so... that's the stated rationale for credit scoring as well. OPEN accounts contribute to the score. whether he thought women were creditworthy.. or racial prejudice. Well. a banker's social preconceptions. CLOSED ACCOUNTS don't help.. Who you probably went to church with. ha) but it's a necessary topic. LOL. But that wasn't the primary consideration. in order to regulate what they CAN'T do.) Debt is never a fun topic when raised in a milieu of people who love credit cards (like me... Credit bureaus are private companies (at least one is publicly traded.. but all things being equal.. That's why the most common advice you'll hear is.e. So life wasn't rosy for everyone. You'd go visit the banker. but it's still owned by its shareholders) which are in the business of buying and selling financial gossip about you. "Don't start closing accounts willy-nilly. WRONG. a list of unproven allegations. Ok..Which federal law establishes the credit bureaus as official quasi-governmental entities? MYTH 1: Credit bureaus are officially recognized entities. There were credit bureaus. etc. it was always a he) he knew you.. And he (and in those days. On to myth two MYTH 2: Items on your credit report are required to remain for 7 years (in most states).(aside from having a bunch of negatives. First. like in our grandparents' time.) A credit report doesn't even enjoy the official legal status of..i. In the old days. so long as we've established what we're really talking about here -. say... except for bankruptcy related items which are required to remain for 10 23 .. for example. that's the way the lending industry has evolved. at best.let's turn to busting two common credit bureau myths. and can hurt IF there's an outstanding balance. then. (More about that two sessions from now. that these unofficial credit reports sometimes impact our lives far more than most any official document which exists... not only in terms of fiscal health. And what's gossip? Gossip is. And she's right. that's WHY the Fair Credit ReportingAct became law in the early 1970s..

the most favorable credit rates are typically extended to those with scores of 720 or above.. Scores range from 350 to 850. someone should bring a class action lawsuit against any consumer reporting agency that says something like: "Negative items must remain on your credit report for 7 years in your state.35% of your score is influenced by account history (how timely you've paid).and it bears repeating for those who are new to the material. is simply your way of saying: "'re either speaking to someone who is terribly misinformed (at best) or someone who is deliberately lying to you (at worst). And 24 ..." you should know that-. There is no requirement. When you speak with the nice customer service person at Sears. though. Confronting what appears on your credit reports." That is an oft-told lie. with the mean value score being right at 725. That's what Fair Isaac Corporation (the FICO company) wants us to know. They DON'T tell us something else. as long as we sheep believe. 10% to new credit inquiries and accounts (with fewer being better).their business is safeguarded. Miss Jones. and 10% to the "credit mix" or variety of credit types present. and they say something like. that private companies must buy and sell information about you to others. Which brings us to credit scoring. That may be a company's policy and the credit bureau's policy. and I can't wait for someone to challenge that kind of misleading information. In real life. LOL.. It doesn't MANDATE reporting though! This is one of the most insidious lies related to credit reports which we have embraced as a society for whatever reason.years. myth. with greater amounts being negative) which is the "utilization ratio" we discussed before. Of course.. there's nothing we can do because those things are supposed to stay on your report for seven years." Keep these two myths in mind as you go about the task of confronting what appears on your credit reports. legal or otherwise. 30% to current account usage (how much of your credit is being used. especially if done using ethical means..their niceness notwithstanding -. but it's not the law.. WRONG... I don't appreciate corporate titans who choose to violate my privacy. LOL.Here's what you see everywhere. "Oh I'm sorry. The FCRA simply places LIMITS upon what can be reported. 15% to length of credit history (the longer the better).

. we all pay for the mistakes of the that basically a credit score indicates the PROBABILITY that a consumer will Credit scores are about helping lenders PREDICT who will default... which stipulates that your consumer file must only (and obviously) be about you. Rather.e. And. and a credit score is then reported which purports to predict the possibility that you are the type of person who may one day become seriously delinquent.In any grouping like that.. and it's this..QUOTING MYSELF from another venue: "Your credit score isn't just about you.." Now. People often ask things like. Through that continuous process." This is why someone needs to challenge the legitimacy of the credit reporting and scoring industry generally... the judiciary will eventually decide.."If I apply for credit.. Try not to confuse the credit score number with what I was talking about when I mentioned "utilization ratio" The actual FICO score is just an INDEX OF PROBABLE DEFAULT That's not to say you didn't ask a great question. The final step happens when your credit report is pulled and is analyzed through the use of those comparative algorithms... Then. More specifically. they run what we statisticians call Pearson correlations between credit report items and subsequent late-pays for each consumer grouping. If it was.. So. I'm a statistics wonk.. Fair Isaac makes use of what they call "Score Cards... I don't believe that they are honorable enterprises. It's all about helping banks determine who is in the group of people who may not repay them.. interestingly.To quote myself one last time:"So does this sound kosher? Are prediction and speculation and comparisons with other consumers fair items to include in a credit report alongside the stuff that otherwise really is about a single consumer? undoubtedly. those people who will NEVER default. Ok. how many points will an inquiry take 25 . even among those who have relatively low credit scores.. providing it along with the rest of your credit report might not violate federal law.." which groups consumers according to whatever criteria they choose. But what that boils down to (for those who hate stats). those people are in the majority. There are the false positives. i.perhaps someone in this room will one day sue their pants off.... to cled's question.. Fair Isaac stays on top of the variables du jour which may diagnose bad future news. it's about you and others.. LOL. The problem is. (Not to mention that it's hellish on your fiscal health.... but do so using ethical means.. I mean open revolving lines. Don't start closing accounts here. Some people say that an ideal utilization ratio is 10%.... yes.People with LOW utilization scream "responsibility" to them. there.) Well. Ok... "keep it below 30%.. Still others say.. When you become more comfortable with your GOOD credit (after your credit repair succeeds).. it's about comparing you to others. But that's for tomorrow's litigation." I think everyone agrees that anything above 50% is hellish on a credit score.) ... But there I go talking about flossing again. And when it doubt.. That's advice for beginners. The real answer is this. the more you resemble that group of probable defaulters. A few words about raising your credit score. LOL). 1) Eliminate negatives.. then you'll tweak things. What follows is conventional wisdom you'll see elsewhere. 3) Stop taking advantage of installment loans (other than a mortgage and car payment) 4) Don't close accounts.So the more inquiries you have. And I (and some lawyers I've spoken with) believe that when a credit bureau includes a credit score. the presence of R9's are poison. (I shouldn't fall victim to answering.. post to the boards here and get 26 ... Now. and the credit score essentially does that.. people who have defaulted in the past are statistically MORE LIKELY to default again than people who never have.. even though the answer to that is usually "2 or 3 or 4" LOL." Now.You'll apply for a super premium MBNA card and close your Capital One card.) The truth is this. But a good rule of thumb here at the beginning is. (R9 is Equifax's designation for a chargedoff or collection revolving account. Consumer credit reports cannot include information about other consumers. Others say 5%. so. but I agree with it wholly. Similarly.. 2) Pay down revolving credit. they may be breaking the law. People who apply for LOTS of credit are among that statistical grouping of people who are MORE likely to default. LOL. people who have 60 day lates STATISTICALLY RESEMBLE probable defaulters MORE than say those people who have only 30 day lates (or no lates) Again.. etc.. and everywhere..

One risks having the report (and the account) flagged. and those are much easier to remove. But... Inquiries that DON'T have an attached active tradeline are termed "orphaned inquiries" by some attorneys I associate with. earlier paragraphs) then pay the student loans.. Well."Please demonstrate that this inquiry was included on my report as a result of the company's permissible purpose. Flagged = noted as being an identity theft victim.once again it's about your goals (reference the section of tonight's session regarding the three types of debt repayment) If your goal is to improve your scores..advice... and devising your best game plan.." You can still ask the bureau to demonstrate that. If it's about other things (ref. we'll discuss some overall strategies for taking a credit report.Now don't just go and dispute something like that off just because. That's true of almost all credit repair interventions though... those student loans will depress a score. makes it tougher to get new credit.. then definitely pay down your revolving credit.. Now. which is. inquiries are tough period as you know... interestingly. triaging it. Then we'll delve more deeply into the down-and-dirty credit repair tactics we love the most.. for sure... Credit scoring is a dance. Doesn't that suck? How do I know? I've seen it myself. but interestingly. I would never advise people to lie. I hope something here was useful for somebody tonight! :) LOL! student loans are ok when you need them. There's no harm in using the approach we discussed in the first two sessions. that's it for tonight! In two weeks. they may be your only positive items! In which case. in accordance with my federal rights.. END CREDIT 103 27 ..Still. It will be much tougher to remove.....they'll add more than they take away.

. as you know..LESSON FOUR TRANSCRIPT Tonight's syllabus. Sometimes credit report issues are so plentiful that it's easy to feel 28 .YOU are your guru Each session builds upon the previous ones. -1-.. As an I know. here's Merriam-Webster's Stepford Person pronouncing the word for all of us.Brief review of the previous sessions -3-. Anyway.. 2) those with serious injuries who aren't life-endangered. lol Actually I borrowed my definition this afternoon from Wikipedia so there I feel like a giant cane is about to enter stage left and pull me away now :) Simply having a plan for what must otherwise be terrifying circumstances helps first responders cope. 3) the walking wounded who will still require first aid but who can assist the EMTs with the other two groups but we'll pretend nothing's "dead"on a credit report. knowing that there is an organized way to proceed (with any endeavor) helps one get past the fear of starting any sizable task.Credit repair rules of thumb -5-. I know. you gotta love the internet.The purpose of "triage" -4-. the wounded are divided into three groups (hence "triage") -1) the most seriously injured who require immediate attention in order to prevent death. Generally speaking.. that was so pedantic of me I can't help it.. Link: http://tinyurl.. the term "triage" is borrowed from war battlefields where medical personnel deal with groups of injured soldiers. Now on to "credit report triage".Course overview and format (which we've already done) -2-. Was anybody here (who's already begun their credit repair program) ever intimidated by the task when they first got started? Well I felt the same way at one point. Similarly. For those who enjoy sound effects..

just in case you ever need them as evidence in a court proceeding..) STEP ONE: Keeping our second session in mind (CREDIT 102: A Consumer Law Overview). And. My goals in adopting the metaphor are threefold: 1) Impress upon you my belief (shared by many in this community) that practically no bad credit rating is beyond repair.. or the "only sensible" way. (And if not the devil. I don't want to represent this as the "correct" way. 29 . So. here's "PsychDoc's Plan of Attack" (licensed to you only for your own individual personal use under the "GNU General Public License" but not for use in any commercial setting).like one is about to fight a war (of sorts). As for the COPIES. you're going to assess each item on your report and assign it an appropriate credit repair intervention. or wherever) and make COPIES of your latest credit reports.. First.. whether it's gossipy bureaus. though. or petty creditors. :) Let me emphasize before I delve in. I realize that eventuality is unlikely. 3) Provide some concrete rules of thumb for matching tradelines with appropriate credit repair interventions.. though. 2) Empower you to approach each of your three credit reports with optimism and a sense of fun as you delineate your plan of attack. Spare no mercy.. Keep a set of "clean" originals in a file somewhere. but that's still a good idea. there's a systematic approach for each. comb through your reports and look for those tradelines (credit industry jargon meaning "an item on your report") where you were never more than 30 days late. For those who haven't begun.. you're about to take a nasty red marker and mark them up as if they're a graffiti wall somewhere. or the "right" way. or anything of that sort.. that this is simply my approach.. Those reports are the work of the devil. That said... or ruthless and unethical debt collectors.. I'll proceed. then at least the work product of corporate drones who probably care less about your personal welfare. don't cheat. by the way. PRELIMINARY STEP: Go to Kinko's (or your office copy machine.

) STEP FOUR: Next look for items that have entered collection or charge-off status. Perhaps we'll have to coin a new word. technically we're going past "triage" now. Those of us who appreciate 12 Step Programs are welcome to say the Serenity Prayer now. (Actually. Mark those as "FCBA OR NUTCASE. Just do it. By the way. but those of us who advocate differently are right too.. and I'll get back to it in a few minutes. irrespective of the technicalities. groups of us have been debating this for years. "sextage" doesn't guarantee any additional fun when you're through. (Although.. They're right. mark it "OC VALIDATION. Kindly sit with the tension for a moment. If the tradeline was placed there by a third-party debt collector (in other words by "XYZ Collection Company" as opposed to "MBNA"). Cough. NO.. fifth. Equifax includes their handy "R9" or "I9" designations. consumers are netting credit report deletions. alas. but. YES.. on the next pass. if you're completely new to all of this. there's going to be fourth. that may help too. You're triaging..) STEP FIVE: Up to now. that may help with this task. you're going to label those items whose worst notations are 90 to 150 days late and which NEVER entered collection or charge-off status. That may change with this step. By the way. you're going to make a second pass through your reports. and sixth steps." Don't worry about the wizened souls who proclaim that there's no such thing as "OC VALIDATION" at this point. then don't worry what that means right now. This time you're hunting for any tradeline whose worst notations are 60 days late." If the chargeoff was put there by an original creditor."quattrage" or even "pentage" or "sextage" (because. cough." More about what that is in a few minutes also. I digress.. :) STEP TWO: Now. Ok.we're NOT going to include anything with 60 day lates or work during this pass. ok. ok. you're going to write the word "GOODWILL" next to each of those tradelines. ahem). then mark those tradelines with the phrase "VALIDATION. no tradeline has received more than one mark.) And. actually. STEP THREE: Now. Meanwhile. but now I'm way off topic. For these you'll mark "GOODWILL OR FCBA. (Suffice to say. Now. which will help make short work of this task with that bureau's reports." More in a few minutes about that. Mark it VALIDATION if a CA and OC VALIDATION if an 30 .

and let's say that a Goodwill approach will work 5 or 10 percent of the time and let's say that a Nutcase approach will work 5 or 10 percent of the time FCBA same FDCPA validation same. Go back and mark those COURTHOUSE....a lien. If the item was placed there by a doctor." "GOODWILL OR FCBA. :) Regardless. mark this one with the acronym "HIPAA. This is where you need to do your homework – search the board for the basic template.." That sounds like something a chiropractor would do. etc. persistence and a 31 . this one does work some of the time... the approach is tried-and-true. I have a philosophy about credit repair interventions. a hospital..OC to Step 5. Your "GOODWILL" tradelines are due a Goodwill Letter..." Note again that you may be writing "HIPAA" next to something which was already labeled "GOODWILL.. and while nothing works all the time. and then you try again.somewhere down the line you're going to clean it up.. Has anybody ever had success with the Goodwill letter? I realize most in here are new.. This step requires you to work through your reports and locate any MEDICAL tradelines..... Let's say that a credit bureau dispute will work 5 or 10 percent of the time or even 20 percent. a bankruptcy notation. with plenty of flexibility. some yes's Let me diverge from the prepared remarks for a minute." Now you have the rough outlines of a plan. and dubbed it the "Goodwill Letter" after a rep for Sears National Bank told me by phone that they had an internal phrase for certain nice people who begged forgiveness --the "Goodwill Adjustment. or someone collecting money for any of those. reworked it for those tradelines with minor late pays which had never charged-off. a testing lab....." "FCBA OR NUTCASE" or "VALIDATION." I borrowed marci's letter (lifting a couple of her brilliant key phrases). etc.. a judgment." a tradeline may have more than one notation STEP SIX: Anything left is probably there as the result of some legal action -. The philosophy is this. some no's.. Each of those notations reflects a particular credit repair procedure. The "Goodwill Letter" saw its origins in a letter penned by "marci" (an occasional participant on these boards) which she called her "Sample Nice Letter for Paid Chargeoffs.

. are HUGE. Be encouraged. Maybe the oldtimer wants you to NOT look like a credit repair organization. has anybody seen success by trying the Nutcase series yet? Let me say something about "required"... Sometimes there is a reason for that.. Well. but here it is anyway in a nutshell Essentially. Those tradelines marked "FCBA or NUTCASE" also present a choice.. OH NO... and a template and accompanying rationale can be found on the board Again. :) Ok. Refer to the second session for commentary regarding the FCBA approach.. or the other..." "Then fold it twice. nothing works all the time. I should put that in all caps: BE ENCOURAGED.. You approach it as quickly as possible.. creditors would rather just go ahead and delete a severe late mark than risk (or waste their time) tangling with you any further. You'll sometimes see one of us old fools say something like. for those tradelines marked "GOODWILL OR FCBA" you have a choice. lemme tell 32 . "Address it in a red pen." "Three times along the seam.... but taking NO action ensures failure. You might try one or the other. Try one..variety of approaches is key I just hate it when I see somebody really punishing themselves after they try an intervention and it doesn't work.. Your questions likely compel the other side to wonder what you plan to do next.. and customize your own. They despair. The "Nutcase Series" enjoys a good number of testimonials." And on and on and on. Or you might try one and THEN the other. some tradelines can call for multiple interventions per the triage approach I just outlined above Your chances of succeeding during the next year or so. Will you sue? Are you a "litigious nutcase"? Sometimes. or do both (space them apart awhile). As an aside. which is terrible but if they kept in mind that each intervention has a chance of working and that interventions can be REPEATED and in some cases.... the Nutcase approach can be summed up as a polite but escalated set of information requests." "Then address the envelope in purple ink. IT DIDN'T WORK I'M DOOMED It's just horrible because you know how they feel.. so buck up and move forward! The following sentences should not substitute for your doing just a few minutes of homework and reading the rationale here on the boards.

(Again reference the transcript for seminar #2. as well as its sequential successor termed by some the "Estoppel" letter.ya what I know about CROs. seek legal counsel. One possible semantic solution I've recommended. Again.. Take a validation letter. Whichever position appeals to you. original creditors verify and don't validate That said. If in doubt. but we'll not get into more advanced and arcane debates in this beginner session) regulates third-party debt collectors. you'll find no end of discussion and debate regarding such interventions. Plus. In credit repair. I've seen plenty of people net credit report deletions by sending the STOCK validation letter to original creditors. there are in credit repair.. one such area involves the notion of "OC VALIDATION" (i. Next. I would advise that you spend some time (a few hours) reading about validation before you fire these off. Has anybody succeeded with Validation? Now.. it's true. almost only. those tradelines marked "VALIDATION" should receive a formal request for validation pursuant to the FDCPA.... Also remember that the larger the amount of an alleged outstanding debt. and arguments about words notwithstanding. you'll find people on the boards debating who "verifies" versus who "validates" and similar arcana. So. Quick point of discussion. you should know that sending a stock validation letter to an original creditor does 33 . in this regard. topics which are controversial where perfectly smart and right people see things differently. irrespective of whether or not the OC was actually required to do anything at all.. the greater the risk that you'll "awaken the giant" (search the board for that phrase).. heapings of respect should be accorded those who maintain that there is no such thing as "original creditor validation. but I have enjoyed watching consumers win their credit repair battles.. The FDCPA only (well..) You'll find a template for the letter. technically. as with most areas of interest. here on Creditboards.e. So technically. substitute the word "verify" for "validate" and substitute references to the "FDCPA" with references to the "FCBA" and fire them off. I personally have never enjoyed the verify/validate wars." Incidentally. or at least ask for the advice of fellow travelers on the board. they break out the purple pens sometimes so I'm really at the point where I hesitate to get so specific. "original creditor validation")..

. My goal tonight: at least beginners who read this will perhaps now better understand what the argument is about generally when they come across it here or elsewhere. and one sent 34 . one sent to the bureaus. every single item on a credit report merits FCRA verification by requesting same from a credit bureau. but there's no way around it. Of course. "The FDCPA does not pertain to us. QUICK CROA DISCLAIMER: I am not an attorney. again... by that time. That means that essentially every item on your reports will be matched with at least two interventions. In a nutshell... :) The irony is that you could try that same intervention in 4 or 5 months. for example. At least you've marked your credit reports for those tradelines which may be appropriate for one of these approaches. Now. so.. Finally. Second.. but the boards contain many relevant discussions worth exploring." What they can't do is slap the cuffs on you for daring to ask for information about the alleged debt. no medical provider wants to entertain the possibility that their credit bureau report has violated your federal privacy rights. and this is not legal advice. never misrepresent your situation when sending letters to anyone for any purpose. do some research on the board before proceeding in this regard. speaking as a shrink. It's all about persistence.) Search the board for the term "HIPAA". on to HIPAA This requires more homework.. I can confirm your hypothesis. A detailed discussion of these would absolutely extend well beyond the parameters of a beginner's seminar. and it might work. So. A number of approaches have been detailed regarding courthouse notations. Clouds. That simple but lovely concept defines the approach. Now go pay the people to whom we sold the debt. Thank you. a bureau dispute may have done the job. I especially appreciate all of WhyChat's comments and advise regarding how to use this statute. if you send the "wrong" letter.not abridge your rights as a consumer in any way. perhaps the OC will write you back and say. The debates almost get political. and I'll dare not make a claim regarding "what's best" because many well-informed people I respect disagree with each other. LOL! Now. I don't want to suggest that every medical tradeline is necessarily appropriate for a HIPAA-based credit repair intervention. (Sorry.

an approach which leverages both bureau-directed and creditor-directed interventions in tandem in order to effect a particular result. approaches. Stay tuned.. Perhaps there is a right answer. or perhaps every wizened old-timer has a piece of the truth. We'll also excerpt actual letters in the next few sessions. I'll look forward to seeing you in two weeks when we talk more about FCRA interventions you can employ with the bureaus... You really are your own guru. on that note.. and FDCPA (CA-directed) approaches in more detail.. and even attitude. Breeze hit it on the nose.... let me move to the last section of tonight's syllabus which is really just a simple whoever placed the item on the reports.. Finally. In the next three sessions. she can still ask the OC to document that they have crossed every t and dotted every i you can pester a paid OC like crazy without lying until they are just sick of you One thing I like to say to folks. NO LAW LIMITS YOUR NUISANCE (Unless you get violent or threatening.. the more you know. I hope somebody new here feels MORE EMPOWERED to dig into their reports in a SYSTEMATIC WAY. The more educated you become to credit repair. Now.. And with that.. well. the better you'll be able to decide how YOU feel about any number of controversial issues.. Or at least I hope you eventually will be. FCBA (OC-directed). :) on to life get those markers! END CREDIT 104 35 . but don't wait for that. philosophy. we'll detail FCRA (bureau-directed). lol) So have at them. it's time to end.. the more you'll find yourself entering into the many excellent debates regarding law. well. and then do some co-curricular RESEARCH on the boards to learn more about the various interventions you've designated. :) I hope this helps somebody at some point! Thank you too... Ultimately. Delve into the boards now and wear out that SEARCH button! :) tell me. See you in two weeks. Such discussions will also include at certain points what some term "the one-two punch".. Eventually they'll wonder if it's worth it to report that 60 day late tradeline.

Can we have a rousing round of applause for (in alphabetical order) cotterpin. I'll mention why in a minute for those who are mystified by that. I'll correct that on the transcript. Actually. I mentioned the Creditboards site owners for all they do to keep this site up and running... We obviously can only skim the surface. fla-tan. 11/3/2005 Tonight we examine what is obviously a very important component of anybody's credit repair campaign -.Course overview and format (which we've already done) -2-...Expectations Well.. and TxQuiltGirl? (Did I leave anybody out??? . I didn't want to give the wrong impression that credit repair was mostly about credit bureau disputes. CEU = continuing education unit.. HDAlex...or include somebody who'd rather not be included anymore?... TeeSharice. rigirl.About disputing -5-.FCRA overview -4-. If yes. but I don't... on that note we'll dive into tonight's material. LOL!) Tonight's syllabus.. In most states. Lawyers pursuing CEUs attend those. Now.Brief review of the previous sessions -3-. In the second session we began to describe the various components that comprise the FCRA.About inquiries -7-.Types of disputes -6-..LESSON FIVE TRANSCRIPT CREDIT 105: FCRA Street Fighting. Tonight I'm going to thank the owners of other sites for all they do. lawyers and other professionals have to engage in a certain number of hours of continuing education in order to 36 .. MarvBear. Lots of people believe that. there are entire multi-day seminars devoted to the topic.. But what I'd like to do is highlight those things that may be of particular interest (AND HELP) to you. but I'm going to do something different for the second four sessions.the credit bureau dispute. LOL! For the first four sessions. CramItCCCAs. -1-. for the next four sessions I'd like to recognize those hard-working (and heretofore thankless) Creditboards Forum Leads and Mods.

The Fair Credit Reporting Act of 1971 . For example. And the good old Retail Credit Company would include stuff like that on your credit report. There were no restrictions upon WHO could actually pay the credit bureau to see your information.. And the Retail Credit Company changed its name.The old Chicago bureau.. Oh.Was there a man in the house? (Families not headed by a male were considered by some bankers to be less creditworthy and more risky. etc. consumers are able to actually take a look at their credit reports! Believe it or not. Retail Credit grew and became the primary bureau in the southeast. They would then make careful notes about the family. For the first time.retain their licenses to practice. In 1971 the FCRA took effect. Similarly two other large regional bureaus combined to create Experian. you'd move into a neighborhood and a couple of very friendly women would come to the door with a little basket of goodies.. and they had a snugly relationship with Welcome Wagon. TN was bought by Equifax In other parts of the country. coupons. Did it seem upstanding? Did anybody smell of alcohol? What color was the family? (I kid you not. The Credit Bureau of Cook County.. some don't... Before that time. The company that became Equifax began life as the "Retail Credit Company" in Atlanta. Does anybody remember the Welcome Wagon ladies (and they were almost always women)? Well. other large bureaus consolidated. It was a nice break from the abusive past.. Equifax. For example.. Some do. and Congress finally passed the FCRA in order to help all of us.. credit bureaus engaged in some very questionable activities.. And so on. The Civil Rights Act in particular erased some of that. ordinary folks couldn't even take a look. That was the old Atlanta credit bureau. Georgia.... and welcome you to the fair city. accorded all of us some basic rights regarding what credit bureaus said about us.) Some of the abuses were essentially erased by the civil rights legislation of the 1960s.. another one.. became TransUnion and gobbled up every other bureau in sight...... The smaller bureaus like that. By the late 1960s there was an uproar. Nobody crowned these companies with an 37 .. but some of the abuses continued. info. before that time... CBK in Knoxville.) This kind of data was then transmitted back to headquarters....

. I don't know if that's just a bunch of crap or not. after all. LOL.. (and I'm not sure I subscribe to this... (In other words. does anybody know what the rationale is for OPTING-OUT (other than offers can be a nuisance)? Well." Etc. and therefore what appears on our reports just doesn't matter as much. But some people believe this. lol?" "I like junk mail... BUT Some folks I respect here believe that mightily and seem to have anecdotal evidence in support of that belief. that's the reason...... so. 1) Opt-out.. "Why in the hades are they suggesting I opt-out all the time.S. gives YOU certain rights about who puts inquiries on your reports) 3) Limits how long information can be reported.. (generally 7 years for regular tradelines and 10 years for bankruptcy-related ones) 4) Details how a CRA must handle disputes (more about that in a second) And the recent amendment to the FCRA.. If your name is Robert Sheldon Poole.. 1) Ensures access to credit reports..official tag.... The FCRA. but I'm not sure I don't either) Disputes from those of us who've opted-out may be easier to accept. those may be reasons. you may have R... 2) Regulates who has "permissable purpose" to acquire a consumer's report. than from those whose reports are juicier. Now. Poole on the reports as well as Bob Poole and a half dozen others. I know some people here must have wondered. FACTA.even gives us all the right to free reports from each bureau once a year. enough history. Again. those of us whose reports are in OPT-OUT status are less valuable...) and 2) Dispute multiple names and addresses that may appear on your report.. (in other words..... 38 . Ok. Typically.. let the bureaus know you aren't open to promotional advertisements and offers. LOL! Well.. So you pick one and dispute the others. Since the bureaus are engaged in the business of buying and selling information about us. TRW was one of the two companies that became Experian. You'll see old-timers give some initial advice to consumers BEFORE they start disputing with credit bureaus.

Sometimes the easiest thing to do is just call 'em if it's just the addresses. whether it was a minor late pay or a major one. Get an uncooperative phone rep this week? Call 'em again next week. If I was pressed.... and you select them based upon the type of tradeline. first. Other intervetions. Ok. and I want to emphasize that this is BY NO MEANS the "right" answer. Now on to About addresses. Now.. So. More about disputing. The fewer bits on the report.... either way.. That's a three-fer! There are quite a few. I'm not going to take a side... it's gone from all three bureaus in one swipe... Credit bureau disputes are simply ONE intervention we use.. LOL!) Rather.. Nutcase. Disputing is not the end-all be-all of credit repair.. whether it ever charged off or not. Before we move onto the types of disputes.good enough. Now.. Go ahead and opt-out and then dispute the extra names and ALL your previous addresses. Goodwill." You may have to wait 6-12 months before they give it another go.They may report back "previously verified. and frankly. But we don't know for sure. account.(Not because I'm afraid to take sides.. I would say... etc. write 'em. But if you do your work with your creditors / CAs / etc.... send a smoke signal." the bureau may not entertain another dispute for awhile. Validation. Some ask.. Some folks swear by the advice. etc. About the second reason. should I do the credit bureau disputes first? Or the OC/CA interventions first? If it was me.. It seems reasonable. etc.. They don't see it as critical information that must be retained.... I'm just not sure.. Again.. 39 .. Just do it. Keep in mind. Once you do a dispute with a bureau and they "verify... FCBA. Probably the one thing you'll learn here on Creditboards is that what most credit repair books say about the topic is VERY short-sighted. When a credit removes an item. Call 'em. Anybody who's new to this series of seminars is referred to the transcript for Session 4.. Very smart people on both sides of the discussion sometimes debate this. Anybody know the credit repair rationale for disputing multiple names and addresses? Actually yes.. you're not contesting information about account payment history. PERHAPS the hard to verify. some folks believe that the automated systems in place verify one data point or another. extra names and addresses are probably the easiest thing to remove. Remember that when you're disputing addresses.. I would begin with the creditors.

. Otherwise.. let me tackle a few VERY good questions. Sometimes consumers confuse them.. And that's a WHAM-three-gone.. Had recommended that you intervene with the creditors first..then you may clean stuff up before wrestling with the bureau personnel. in accordance with my 40 .. Just no rhyme or reason sometimes. that sounds like a question related to debts that are allegedly outstanding. I mentioned the importance of honesty. #7 LOL! Now... we'll send UDF forms to the bureaus and remove your late pays. or as tal said previously. there is the disputing clock that begins when you send one to the bureaus. Zowie. They are supposed to investigate within what the statute terms a "reasonable period" held by case law to be 30 days typically although no judge will toss the book at them for 45 or even 60 days if they end up doing the job ignoring you is another story. 1) There are several different "clocks"... too much material tonight. Just getting my bearings.. (Several NON-LYING credit bureau intervention examples follow. . remove. About the comment "low-hanging fruit".. About the TYPES of disputes.... Keep careful notes in case you ever take 'em to court. refusing to investigate again at all 2) Another "clock" is the one that has to do with validation... We'll talk more about that in lesson 7 3) Another "clock" is that statute of limitations for debts. I casually mentioned one type of dispute in the very first session. and that you could send disputes that essentially said something like this... and those appear in red italic type. and there is a clock regarding their response time more about that in Lesson 7.. More in Lesson 8. Those who have just joined this series are referred to Lecture #1.... what the heck. So there are several clocks....) "Please demonstrate that the following tradeline(s) appears correctly on my report.. We'll tackle those topics in the FDCPA session. The best low-hanging fruit is when Sears says. Remember that what's low-hanging with one bureau may be your toughest on another...... ok. I would recommend that you search the board regarding "SOL" or "statute of limitations" for that......

and I'll mention those in a minute... I don't like the "Not mine" dispute for other reasons.... of course. Please investigate this.. ok) You can write that in your own words a THOUSAND different ways. Indeed. I don't appreciate it one bit. Along that line: "Dear bureau: Have you read the statistics regarding what percentage of reports include errors? This is a huge problem in our society. Please investigate this item.) That created quite a stir on the board. Keep it up.. we advise a variety of approaches.. Preach and preach. It makes absolutely no sense to me. in which case. about some FCRA street fighting. You profess to just not understand. "I'm so confused by what appears here. and REPETITION throughout the year.. But don't lie." (etc. In the last session I mentioned that it's hard not to feel a lot of empathy for folks who try something and then it fails and they feel doomed." Yes. (Which is fine. That's why..federally protected civil rights. Please investigate the following items on my report. You don't understand why it's there? Demand an explanation. "I don't understand why this appears on my report" I love that one." You aren't making any claim of "not mine" or "never late" (which would be lies unless. And I'll describe some of those others tonight. that skates close to the edge... Nothing works all the time." That's the preachy approach.. they really aren't yours or weren't ever late.) But I fear that they may have embraced that single technique to the exclusion of others..Let me throw out a variety of TRUTHFUL techniques for dealing with the lovely CRAs. Sometimes I've seen folks who do nothing more than CRA disputes finally get something deleted on the fourth or fifth try. Here's another technique that does NOT require prevarication. 41 . I read a few threads where people embraced that quickly. Others mentioned that it didn't work for them. I noticed that some achieved some good deletions. "Items which don't belong on a consumer's report violate federal law. But preachy consumers aren't violating law. It IS the bureau's responsibility to provide you with explanations in plain English. Keep in mind this: NO intervention ever works all the time. Now.

but the eventual rewards are good. that sometimes something will work for one person and not for another.. "Are you aware that reporting items late which were never late violates the law? Pursuant to my rights under federal law.. I am requesting that you investigate the following account immediately. Credit repair can test your patience. You'll prevail eventually. Perhaps another day! END CREDIT 105 42 .. Unfortunately I didn't get to banter with Gryf regarding my contentions that sometimes credit repair interventions fail.. I continued merrily typing away. Then of course I realized that the chat room software had crashed.Keep up the good work. lol. Please facilitate this lawful request within 30 days.. remove such data immediately. Here's another credit bureau intervention... and that one simply must dust oneself off and try again or try something else." post-seminar note from PsychDoc: What I didn't realize was that everybody wasn't ok.. and if you find that you have included incorrect information. although I realized that something was wrong.. I wondered why nobody else was typing..

LESSON SIX TRANSCRIPT CREDIT 106: FCBA Street Fighting. for what they do here. charged-off or were listed as a collections accounts.. 43 .. MarvBear. Specifically.. 4) Participation. I hope I didn't leave somebody out.Third-Party interventions I taught developmental psych as a grad student back in the day. 5) Willingness to play cop when "bad people" (and they know who they are) drift in like a bad log in a tide... and TxQuiltGirl . (LOL!) Anyway. they never. 2) No pay.Brief review of the previous sessions -3-.Creditor motivation -5-. gotta have a syllabus. i..Course overview and format (which we've already done) -2-. HDAlex. Specifically. ever. rigirl. 1) Hard work.FCBA brief -4-. fla-tan. we're all grateful.e. 11/17/2005 Tonight we'll delve into the kinds of hardball tactics you can engage with creditors. If they weren't there... TeeSharice. 3) Knowledge.... Once again.. we're going to restrict ourselves tonight to those tradelines which may show late payments reporting to your credit reports but that never reached R9 or I9 status.. So...... the boards would likely degenerate into a spam-filled morass where Viagra postings would surely outpace anything related to consumer credit by 10 to 1. (in alphabetical order) cotterpin.Creditor interventions -6-. The forum Moderator job requires so much. CramItCCCAs.. Now we delve into the material for tonight specifically. I want to differentiate tonight's credit repair interventions from next week's.. -1-. Tonight's syllabus. I think.. I thought it would be useful to recognize the Creditboards Forum Leads and Mods. ain't that the truth! LOL. Once again.

and so was my brother.. I was just a guy with a bunch of late pays.. Well...) So I went online and discovered the main credit repair discussion board on the net in 2000.. And I was late on all of them. but that didn't help my situation.. you pay your debts. My thinking was faulty..... and they told me the same thing: "Oh man... 30 day lates. My entrance into credit repair occurred a half decade ago. I thought... who was an attorney. we'll discuss those pesky accounts which never charged off but report nasty late other words. Those kinds of tradelines fall under the purview of the Fair Debt Collections Practices Act (FDCPA).Next week we'll tackle collections and charge-offs -. we'll discuss that. those credit report items which are termed "R9" (for revolving chargeoffs) or "I9" (installment chargeoffs) by Equifax. So I started reading a bunch of credit repair books........ and unfortunately they .... next week. those books SUCKED! They all said that if I paid off my debts I had no "leverage.... it was a Yahoo discussion group..... but I don't want to get ahead of myself. Holy moly. and the primary credit repair intervention imposed for those types of accounts is termed "validation" which is the word actually used within that federal statute. (doesn't that make it sound longer than it was. Somehow I never let anything charge off. 44 . and my new wife and I decided to buy a car.. and that was not the one some of you may be thinking of.. 30 days to 150s.. by the way... Did I get an education that day? My credit was destroyed... I knew very little about credit reports...." Apparently "leverage" was reserved only for those who let things charge off..There were others I'm leaving out. ha) I was finishing up my doctorate. To make this long story MUCH shorter. among other tactics. 120s.. breeze is included in that category.... I'll pay them. and I had lots of student loans. and then you negotiate the tradeline removal..I did a lot of research and "adopted" some very fine teachers online and off.... TONIGHT however. 90s. so what if I'm late?" Then one day I got married." (Which I don't believe. "What the heck.... and that's a fine technique by the way. 150s.. Really late.. you have no leverage.. to borrow the language of people who are two decades younger than me (I'm 44). according to them. Anybody ever had any of those? smile.... 60s..

. Dancerat)... but I didn't check. 3) They don't respect people with credit problems generally. b) The Nutcase Series. I would like to say. and perhaps d) too. if approached on the right day... Saying you had a bad moment.The approach simply involves this. c) The Dancerat letters (written by a member of another discussion board. CREDITOR MOTIVATION. Saying you won't do it again. 4) They wish you would go away.. will forgive a negative credit report listing just because. and 3) whose credit was TERRIBLE These are the interventions we'll discuss tonight. and if the right representative is engaged. 5) They are highly motivated to avoid even the hint of litigation or embarrassment.. There is a common thread to all of these direct-to-creditor interventions. and we'll discuss that shortly. and then we'll delve into the interventions themselves. Essentially. lol. Let me cover the next topic on tonight's syllabus. a Creditboards member).. the classic "Goodwill" approach. I'll also post links to those letters.. The jiu jitsu of dealing with creditors is to use their motivation to benefit YOU...c) is cited on Creditboards btw..... Asking if 45 . Saying your sorry. Those five heuristics are key. but I've seen the results it gets)... but I think it's simply "just because". 2) They don't want to fool with your credit problems... And there are others of course. They include: a) The Goodwill Letter (heavily influenced by marci. First.But the short of it is. Here are PsychDoc's Creditor Heuristics 1) Creditors are in business to loan money. d) The Knockout Letter (written by a very controversial fellow.. "just because they value your business". and 2) who paid the bills. So.a series of credit repair interventions was fashioned which would restore "leverage" to those of us who: 1) didn't want to lie. some creditors.

. If you want a CLEAN slate (because mortgage brokers will give you sheer hell even when they see even a 30 day late or whatever). lol. Has anybody had success yet using the Goodwill approach? Some yesses and some no's... LOL.. "TAKING THE TL AWAY ENTIRELY IS WORSE THAN LEAVING IT BECAUSE OF MY CREDIT SCORE" etc. and I also think that -. And this over here and that over there. It's a great way to start. The next credit repair intervention for late-pay creditors is.. Really. your explanation. if you can't comply with these lawful requests... the Nutcase series." i. so don't take this out of context). be persistent. you actually saw success with 2 90 day lates using Goodwill? That's fantastic... With my personal credit repair I didn't care whether it was removed 46 . use a variety of approaches..... because those are usually tried in order to attempt forgiveness of an allegedly outstanding debt.. But. Sometimes the entire tradeline is removed.. oh by the way. There is a "classic" goodwill example that I'm sure is posted to Creditboards.I have a personal philosophy about that. then delete the tradeline..there is redemption in this lifetime at Sears... just so we'd have a convenient moniker...Let me say. So nibanike. A CBer posted this. Maybe somebody's generic nutcase letter is that.e.the less severe the item. I'm intimately familiar with that one.. tagalong. first... the Nutcase series uses non-angry language. You can and SHOULD change that a bit to fit your situation. Some people cry (and they're right in one respect). and I'll bet that's what he's referencing... validation letters sent to creditors. and it's certainly true that an established account with a high line of credit adds points to credit scores. etc..... Very matter-offact..typically -. Very nice. It looks a lot like "OC validation.. but it's not that. It asks the creditors to verify this and that. "So the nutcase letter is basically an ITS with a foaming-at-the-mouth rabid tone.... although as we've seen here tonight.For those who have not succeeded (yet).. the more likely the success.. then I'm all for just starting fresh.. etc.. even severe tradelines can give way. I think wayhigh is correct.. And this and that. But there is a specific series of letters that we "named"." WRONG.. I think that's a respectable argument. And.... spouting whatever the CBer can come up with that's close to a legal theory that might fly (in the Bizarro World)... what it ISN'T.. (and I like this CBer.

Goodwill letters work best with fully-paid. c) weren't associated with an "encumbered" consumer protection issue.. lol).... Regardless. lol).proof that the debt existed. So.. Keep in mind that the nutcase series of letters is aimed at forcing a fully paid creditor to demonstrate that the late-pay notations in your credit file are: a) proveably A few words about when to use Goodwill versus Nutcase. Sure. since that standard validation letter is asking for one thing -.psychology. but typically: -. we've seen people have success using this technique with seriously-late and paid/closed accounts as well (hence. lol) but rather to present as a litigious nutcase who is "up to something" and who should be dismissed as cheaply as possible and quickly (by deleting the negative tradeline notations. The nutcase series DOESN'T DISPUTE the original debt's validity at all. You build your credit. Now. and your scores rise precipitously.. http://www. It is a perfectly legal letter whose object is not to present as a psychotic (as some people seem to think. your score may dive at first. I wanted a clean slate. of course.. It's all about your goals. but it's like psychotherapy. still-open accounts with isolated and relatively minor late-pay notations.Here is a link. There's no rule of course. among other things. the "no rule" caveat. LOL. There is actually a series of them. Sometimes you get a bit worse before you get better.. b) don't violate your civil rights. if you've had a Sears account for 7 47 .. The nutcase letters dispute the validity of the NEGATIVE TRADELINE REMARKS and do that by hinting at one or more violations of consumer protection laws. This differs TREMENDOUSLY from a standard validation letter for unpaid [alleged] debts. hopefully.entirely or if just the negative portion was removed. and d) don't reference a transaction that was part of a problematic insurance dispute (with all the laws pertaining to that).

. and only you can be the judge.provided the creditor receives your change of address. That's not how the intervention was designed. -... So... failure to post payments and other credits. in writing... so your mileage may vary.. maybe it goes like this: There's lots of wayhigh said before here. I was destroying my credit and didn't even know enough about CRAs to know it at the time. such as returns. failure to send bills to your current address -. So I went with the Nutcase letter and they folded quickly. 4) PATIENCE Next intervention. and charges for which you 48 . Quoting from the second session of this series.. FCBA. While. charges that list the wrong date or amount.Nutcase letters work best with paid/closed accounts for which there was serious delinquency one or more times. with my PHEAA student loans. charges for goods and services you didn't accept or weren't delivered as agreed.. and 2) an isolated example within the context of a valued customer's otherwise excellent account history really beckons for a "courtesy adjustment" rather than the implied threat of a lawsuit.. Again. I certainly wouldn't send the "nutcase" for that because: 1) you currently have a relationship with the creditor... for example. I was 150 days late several different times over a period of several years. asking for a "courtesy adjustment" seems like a pretty huge stretch even for the most kind-hearted customer service employee. The Fair Credit Billing Act requires creditors to bill correctly and completely.. That said. math errors.. "The FTC summarizes the statute's prohibitions as follows: "unauthorized charges.) In that case.. We have seen lots of good responses for Nutcase with charged-off accounts when sent to original creditors... 2) A VARIETY OF APPROACHES.. at least 20 days before the billing period ends. (Basically.years. 3) REPETITION. If there is a heuristic in here somewhere. I wouldn't pay for 4 or 5 months and then I would make a big lump payment to bring it current. 1) PERSISTENCE. and you were late twice three years ago.. my mantra... but typically a "courtesy adjustment request" (Goodwill letter) stands a better chance if the delinquency occurred within the context of a properly-maintained account -.

. as well as a full accounting of where each bill was mailed. For that reason.ask for an explanation or written proof of purchase along with a claimed error or request for clarification. lol. 9) The creditor didn't break their contract with their customers in any way. that you not ignore change of address requests. you want to ensure the following before ANYTHING is reported to the bureaus. So. didn't contribute to negative credit bureau reporting. forward a notarized statement on your letterhead which will attest to your compliance to the FCBA generally and to my account specifically throughout the 49 .. 1) The account was created at your request. including charges and interest. or disputed charges which weren't facilitated correctly and in accordance with your rights as stipulated by the statute... Consider this FCBA based credit repair approach. 2) Every item billed to an account was billed correctly.." Some may remember that in an earlier lesson I briefly mentioned one proposed FCBA intervention. that each statement be sent to the correct address. "In accordance with my Federal civil rights as stipulated by the Fair Credit Billing Act.. 8) Interest and late fees were computed in accordance with federal law and with any laws specific to your home state. 4) Every statement was sent to the correct address. The Act also stipulates that you provide lawfully requested information concerning my account upon request in a timely manner.. The Fair Credit Billing Act requires that you bill correctly. you are obligated to comply with this lawful request for elaborated documentation for billing. 6) The creditor never ignored disputed charges. regarding the FCBA. and that you facilitate disputed charges in a manner prescribed by law. for the life of the account. 7) Ignored change of address requests." So. Your expeditious handling of this matter is expected. or rescind these reports from every consumer reporting agency to which you have reported same... "Dear XYZ. 5) The creditor never ignored your change of address requests.. 3) Every statement was created in a timely manner.

Yes..txt Next I want to mention another one that has achieved excellent results for many on the net.. but you should also leverage HIPPA there. http://www. Here is a link to the text for that interesting direct-to-creditor approach. Unlike the Nutcase series. Bill is a cantankerous old I'm being chased away. Keep in mind that these sample FCBA approaches. The NEXT creditor intervention in this vein is the Dancerat approach.psychology. A polite. Otherwise. ha. (and for that matter unlike the FCRA "prove it or lose it" approach I've described in previous sessions for credit bureaus)." Remember my Creditor Heuristics. lawful request just gives 'em the willies. Anything that smacks of possible litigation makes creditors nervous. Unlike the Nutcase series and Bauer's Knockout tactic which do not disclaim the original underlying debt. tagalong.. Dare I say the name..period I have been a customer. But Dancerat used a different tactic. 4myfuture. calm. They just don't want to fool with you. Yes.. like the Nutcase approach (especially Nutcase letter 1). I don't think he or she ever registered on Creditboards.. Dancerat DOES make a claim. Some dislike him. And I say that affectionately.. and released it to the internet gratis -..) Very good. make no claims. Others don't.... Dancerat was a participant on another board. They just look like they're written by somebody who calmly has it together and is about to escalate.. gmta clouds.. Bill Bauer? (OH NO. and unlike the FCBA approaches mentioned here. the DanceRat approach uses a "not mine" claim. But he wrote a VERY good direct-to-creditor intervention... more grist for the fire you'll set. definitely.which is 50 . delete the negative marks you have reported to the three consumer reporting agencies within the timely manner prescribed by law. but I could be wrong. I'll not review the history. They'd rather go attend to their business. Your prompt attention will be appreciated. The Dancerat approach actually disputes certain aspects of the underlying debt... so this should be used carefully. lol interesting. Remember my byword: tell the truth.

. Ok.... you'll be in a terrific position to improve upon these... Now I'd like to move to the last item on tonight's list of topics. It pays to know the laws. argh... otherwise delete"). or even trash them. It really doesn't matter what silly names we've given to these different categories because YOU can write one even better.. Typically. lol. lol: TRIANGULATE.. Well.... zappagal (VERY GOOD.. a) making a claim.. (So in that regard it's diametrically opposite to the method Dancerat utilized. perhaps the best third-party intervention would be a letter to your state Attorney General!) 51 .txt The thread that connects all of these is.. creditors don't want to be embarrassed. checking my syllabus. They may mention various laws....... 3) Consumer web sites like PlanetFeedback... Third-Party Interventions... the more.. or even aspects of various laws. and some don't (i.e... He called it the "Knockout Letter"..see it's really for me to keep me on track heh ain't that the truth breeze.... (and I hope someone here invents the next super intervention. 1) the Federal Trade Commission. And I've given you a sense of how they divide themselves into the two categories. REVIEW the second lesson of this series.. It's something like the Nutcase series in that it DOESN'T make a claim.. that's right. Some make a claim (i. will remain of course... 2) The Better Business Bureau. And some examples you can use.unusual for versus b} not making a claim . we've covered the direct-to-creditor interventions.... You have to decide what you're comfortable with.. "prove to me you have complied with the law. lol. They HATE it when consumers complain to.. or come up with your own unique approach..psychology.... The division between.. the better for all consumers) that they make a request for ACTION or DELETION.e. which is. and .. But after you have become familiar with the various consumer protection (which I understand is back after a brief hiatus). This is where you essentially do what we shrinks always advise people not to do in their families.. "I was NOT LATE").. Has anybody ever seen good results (or bad) from using third-party interventions? do tell...... I've told a couple here.. of course.) Here's a link to the text for that: http://www.

Definitely work the contacts if you have them... student loan guarantors are like most other creditors. i.. I love CMRRR. a VARIETY of approaches may be what it takes over the course of a year.. That's why I prefer the Nutcase series (and you knew I'd say that). Very good. or sent with purple ink. It looks like a polite document that your lawyer prepared. The legal counsel at Citibank once removed a bad student loan tl for me when the customer service reps said "no way" "1-2 Punch" next session -.. and some of the peculiarities of the FDCPA.. It's one more arrow in the sling.. END CREDIT 106 52 .. In two weeks. smile.... We will dip into VALIDATION. both the direct-to-creditor ones and the third-party's a variant on validation..wayhigh: I'm not recommending or not recommending any of these. zappagal. then try it another. For Nutcase. so I'm not one who offers that kind of advice. so just delve in. walkingthemaze put it just right Buck. lots of debate about that. or whether it should be handwritten..gif I think we can all be grateful for this wonderful community. let me just end by encouraging everyone to search Creditboards for references to these interventions.. sometimes it's best to learn about those just by reading the anecdotes posted to the board. but the Knockout Letter has netted great results as well.." Try it one way. . You'll see the gurus taking positions on all of that -.. So...... you should assess your risk.. Let me also encourage everyone to post about their successes and otherwise.. so that others will be able to benefit from your experience. What works for one sometimes doesn't work for another. and yes.e.. and I'm not taking anything away from them by the way. The Knockout Letter is typically "Bill".. Lots of very smart people have opinions about all of that.. I've seen success both ways. or whether it should it be typed.. I wish there was a "right" answer. With respect to the third-party interventions. contentious.. and I love NOTARIZED signatures because they spook creditors. again. Ok..whether it should be CMRRR.. chargeoffs. I've just seen positive and negative results from just about every combination.. I prefer polite.. LOL. Some make great points. wayhigh. etc.but nothing's "required.. collections. tagalong.

So Congress passed the FDCPA in order to stem such practices and to give consumers some teeth.Brief review of the previous sessions -3-.Course overview and format (which we've already done) -2-.LESSON SEVEN TRANSCRIPT CREDIT 107: FDCPA Street Fighting. some of which they weren't actually entitled to pursue.. The FDCPA in a nutshell.. -1-. unfortunately) demonstrate questionable business practices. And the REASON it was enacted was because debt collectors did (and still do.....The Fair Debt Collection Practices Act.. debt collectors could call you on the telephone anytime they liked.What is validation? -5-. 2) Specifies that CAs must always include several legal caveats in their dealings with debtors.) 53 .. 1) Provides behavioral standards for acceptible third-party collections behavior.) talking about debt collectors.The sequence -6-.. They could threaten all kinds of legal action.. And I understand they're pretty nasty on that other planet too. friends and embarrass the alleged debtor. As we discussed in Lesson 2. Until the FDCPA became law. as I hope everyone knows. collection agencies and their employees are regulated by a federal statute -.Controversy abounds Well. Tonight's syllabus. (Before. (and perhaps there are a few nice ones.. They would threaten "debtor's jail" (something that doesn't exist in the United States) (but don't travel to Uruguay!) They would telephone relatives. That law was enacted in order to protect all of us. bosses.... CAs would employ all kinds of shenanigans to mislead consumers regarding who they were. 12/1/2005 Tonight we'll delve into dealing with some of the nastiest people on planet earth.FDCPA brief -4-.

. 4) Specifically details a consumer's right to request further information regarding an alleged debt.). These do not carry the force of law. annotate the Act a bit Collectors can't call after 9 pm or before 8 a. I hate to give homework..... Collectors can't telephone you at work if you tell them not to. etc. coworkers.. and that's here: FDCPA � 805 Also. That's YOUR local time.... a few people. Fisher. I'll cite a few more for the transcript.3) Allows the debtor to formally request (i.ftc. LOL.. I hope tonight that we'll delve in and give some shape to the material so that you'll be less confused! Since we're talking about actually READING the Act.e. http://www. But note the following 54 .. Some not. there are some FTC Opinion Letters which underscore that.m.. but they have proven to be quite influential with most judges in courtrooms as evidence. Note especially certain sections..let me help those who haven't read it at all. Borowski. LOL.Let me help those who've not read it at least join the group who've read parts of it. Among other rights.. Ok.. Jones. by the way...htm Read it tonight or tomorrow.. LaScuola. but I heartily recommend it. by letter -. If you inform a CA that you no longer want them to contact's a link...... Kwait.. Has anyone actually read all or part of the FDCPA? some yes.. FDCPA � 805 (a)(3) Collectors should NOT give information about you to third-parties (friends..... Look for that in this section. it can be confusing.hopefully certified and sent with return-receipt requested) that the CA "cease and desist" from communicating with the debtor further. Halverson.. family. some no.. Great.. FDCPA � 805 (a)(1). has anyone ever come across or referenced FTC Opinion Letters? They're found at the FTC site.. Atteberry. Here's a good FDCPA citation.. I would specifically recommend that anyone who is being pursued by collection agencies (CAs) read the act.) By the way.. (Those are the names of the FTC Opinion Zbrzeznj.... they cannot. Look for that in this section.

. CEASE & DESIST can be very powerful. FDCPA � 806 and FDCPA � 807 give you specific rights against other abuses.. By the way... You want to know what that $500 is about. 1691g© from the FDCPA: "The failure of a consumer to dispute the validity of a debt under this section may not be construed by any court as an admission of liability by the consumer. Now. there's so much material that I hate to gloss over (but this is a beginner's course). "Hi. And the ones who don't... just because you FAIL to dispute the debt within the 30 days doesn't mean you have resigned yourself to whatever they say. At your house." "And you owe me $500... Ok. Threats. You'll find an excellent Cease & Desist example on Creditboards in the letter archive. And sometimes our experts roll over with 'em. can be sued. "What is validation?" Let me start by describing a scenario. because the only Sears debt you ever owed was for a third of that. Some people say flatly." "And if you don't pay. with a $1000 statutory award for every infraction. Next. So that's why many of us don't recommend telling them not to WRITE you. "You can only request that information within 30 days.. having said that.. We've reviewed the major sections of the FDCPA and provided specific citations for you to review. You want to know that I actually own the debt I claim I do. Now.. etc. 55 . let me backtrack a bit." In other words. Citation.... and we won't cover small claims this time. There are 46 folks in the room. You want to know who I am. I want you to jot this down." Before I go into this.CAVEAT>>>Most informed folks will serve up the excellent recommendation that you only inform them not to telephone you.. let me clarify a few things. I'm going to ruin your credit. I'm Randy Padawer with the Randy Padawer Collection Agency. You want to know that you actually incurred the debt once upon a time. but let me reiterate something anyway..... Many CAs will oblige. The FDCPA citation for that consumer right is HERE >>> FDCPA � 805 © .. moving along in the syllabus.. So the FDCPA accords you the right to information. We roll over. The FDCPA says. We don't quote that enough..... I knock on your door.." The door slam is one thing.

or the name and address of the original creditor and a copy of such verification or judgment. sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. if you've pursued it within the 30 days. is mailed to the consumer by the debt collector. and that's irrespective of that 30-day period. I think) and some won't. or that the consumer requests the name and address of the original creditor. Will a judge stand behind you? Sometimes yes. Now.. then. But no law limits your ability to request information. Now.. don't let that dissuade you from pursuing the other side vigorously if that's what you need to do. The operant word there is "can. the debt collector shall cease collection of the debt. let me move onto another point of interest. Some judges will cite the 30-day thing (in error. if you're looking for a clean report."If the consumer notifies the debt collector in writing within the thirty-day period described in subsection (a) of this section that the debt.. If you are outside the 30-day initial collection period.. Like every credit repair intervention cited so far... you're in a MUCH more powerful position..".. is disputed. or any disputed portion thereof until the debt collector obtains verification of the debt or a copy of a judgment. a request for validation sometimes results in a consumer-friendly response no matter when it was sent. YOU MAY NOT PREVAIL IN COURT. Results matter. as we've seen in this transcript tonight.. That's your consumer right.. and sometimes no. you should be encouraged.. Now.. and as a section header. Note that it doesn't say anything about validation. in the table of contents.. You can request validation at any time.. In fact. BUT YOU MAY. or an alleged debt removed. In any case. the word "validation" only appears TWICE in the Act. AGAIN. LOL. Has anyone here ever had a tradeline wiped off a credit report. But let me say this... Because.. if you're looking for slam-dunk court case. Some judges despise debt collectors. and sometimes it doesn't. Here's another one for Gryf's notes.. Question. sometimes it works. in response to a request for validation (irrespective of when the letter was sent)? I want those who read this transcript in the future to be encouraged. or any portion thereof. or name and address of the original creditor." That's where the 30-day clock reference originates within the act.. A 56 . yes.. It can work.. Regardless..

. I *NEVER* have said anything like that in the first six lessons...... Otherwise lose it and remove it..validation letter is not a dispute. "excuse me. anyway. Now. 2005. and this is not one-on-one legal advice. If the collector sends what they consider is verification (and THAT's the word used within the paragraph under the Validation heading. I don't know you. Thank you. The exciting thing is this." That is not a dispute. LOL. PLEASE never get caught up with people who want to argue those two words with you. Also.... a new court case.. Timing becomes central. etc. First... you have a nifty citation to reference in your next letter to them. In other words. A debt collector who simultaneously verifies and resumes collection activity violates FDCPA. I hate hype. since I am not one. if the collector validates or verifies or sends adequate smokes signals. ask your friends on the board before citing any case law (or statute for that matter). you have a case law citation to present in another court. it's a time-waster). a court has affirmed that validation is a separate event from the debt collection period... Spears v. or. and the second one is one we don't. The first one is one we like. tonight I'd like to do something exciting. The dispute comes AFTER.. I've never had an account with ABC Collections. please do your due diligence regarding research... And post it to Creditboards. It is a request for information... but we WILL. Please consult with your attorney if needed. by the way. You don't know whether or not you are going to dispute the debt because you don't know if you owe it yet.. I hope you'll find it and read it.. let me reference TWO MORE laws that many of you know well. October 17... Spears was a mixed case. Inc. and at the same time says. You're saying.. Southern District of Indiana. Brennan 49A02-0003-CV-169. Just because you have requested validation doesn't mean you have disputed anything. We like it 57 .. Recker v Central Collection Bureau... although it was settled MOSTLY in favor of the consumer. "NOW YOU MUST PAY" in the same letter or if they do ANYTHING during that period that smacks of collection.. On a related note. Here's the gist. That means. This is too new for me to elaborate HOW we will benefit.... LOL. simply. And.. Please identify yourself better and tell me about this alleged debt. Yet. But this is exciting.

because... The signed contract is not enough. It merely shows the presence of an original agreement. It doesn't prove that the customer still owed money. The second citation seems to refute that, but I'd like to delve in a bit there too, and that one is indeed Chaudhry v Gallerizo. By the way, when you search the board for Chaudhry... also search it for the misspelling Chaudry... people always leave off the second "h" but you may overlook some very good information, so search both ways. As you see, they LOVE to cite Chaudhry because they CLAIM that this case TRUMPS federal law. In other words, they say that since a section of Chaudhry says that a simple note that the consumer owes "this much" is enough information in response to a validation request... that must mean that the FDCPA (a FEDERAL statutes) has been overturned. Now isn't that crap? LOL. Plus...By the way, that's Chaudhry v. Gallerizzo, 174 F.3d 394 (4th Cir. 1999). Anyway... Plus, when you read Chaudhry, you'll see that the CA had already sent some information. They actually sent what some of you hope you never see.... which is... a lot of substantiation. The consumer pressed it. And the CA responded with just a note the next time. And the consumer pressed it again, took 'em to court and lost. The citation about the single line being enough is... TAKEN OUT OF CONTEXT. (Ditto re: WhyChat's analysis.) So YOU have the right to snap right back at 'em with that. Plus...let me be clear... The CA in that case provided a bunch of validating information. It was the SECOND PASS where they provided a "look, we're fed up and want our money" note. The case itself was about something specific.... plus, as you just mentioned...if you don't happen to live in the 4th District, it's not the law of the land EVEN IF your situation was EXACTLY as Mr. Chaudhry's. So don't let them cow you with Chaudhry. So don't let the validation-debaters cow you with the 30-day warning. You just go, go, go. You do not give up any right when you request information. Again, you may not win in court. But, then again, most of you won't go to court. Most are interested in clean credit reports. And of those who do go to court, you MAY win! Ok... Moving on... I want to list some FTC Opinion Letter names for your reference that discuss CAs who refuse to validate... Mezines, Cass, Berger, Bergstrom, Castle, Miller, Wollman, Krisor... You've got some homework now,


LOL! There's obviously not time to discuss every one... Now... About collectors who threaten to sue you outside of where you now live or where you lived when you incurred the ORIGINAL debt (which is a no-no, by the way): Reference FDCPA � 811 (a) (2). Also reference this excellent case citation... Yu v. Signet Bank, California Court of Appeal, First Appellate District, Division Four, 69 Cal. App. 4th 1377, decided 02-16-1999. And this FTC Opinion Letter... In other words, if you incurred the debt when you lived in Kentucky... and now you live in Minnesota... and the CA is in Kansas... that CA better not try to sue you in Kansas. They'll need to file in either Kentucky or Minnesota. Otherwise they are SCREWING with your civil rights. I hope this is helpful so far...During tonight's seminar, you've been provided serious annotations from the FDCPA... Also references to some very relevant FTC Opinion Letters... Also, some good cases (and of course there are lots lots lots more for those who want to delve in) to cite... Also, some encouragement regarding pursuing CAs... irrespective of the calendar. Also, some testimonials within this transcript from those who confirm that opinion vis-a-vis credit report results. And finally, you've been reminded that a request for validation is not the same as a debt dispute. So.. Now I'd like to turn to the SEQUENCE, which is the next item on our syllabus...Basically, beginners will hear a bunch of stuff... terms... like... validation, verification (and people killing each other over those words, lol)... etc. Let me just provide an oversimplified sequence for newcomers... 1) You request validation of a debt. 2) They either send you something or not from a debt collector Courts have not yet defined exactly what constitutes good validation. This works in your favor. You are not obligated to be satisfied with what they send, LOL. Of course, you can be satisfied if you want to be! Basically, you want a lot of information. Now... sometimes you have to be realistic about how far you want to pursue this... whether you will go to court or not... when to hold 'em... when to fold 'em (anybody care to sing?) If you contend that they haven't provided proof of the debt... you can contend that they have violated the law by continuing to collect... If the debt is small, most CAs would rather just move along to the next 59

person who will wither and cry on the phone rather than deal with a troublemaking citizen who knows their rights. Now, if it's a $32,000 alleged debt to Citibank, you can bet that they're going to pursue you if you owe the debt! We've known one or two charlatans in our community who've made a job out of cheating creditors, suing them, sometimes winning, and bragging about it. Let's not name names. Please. But... That is certainly not the way I would recommend you live your life. I guess that's enough to say about that. Each state establishes their own guidelines with respect to when a debt is no longer collectable (i.e., the statute of limitations). A SOL doesn't prevent someone from attempting to collect. The SOL simply provides you with what's called an "AFFIRMATIVE DEFENSE". That means... They can continue to collect. You go to court. They say, "Judge, he or she owes me this money." And you say, "Judge, before this matter proceeds further, please know that I have an affirmative defense regarding the statute of limitations of this debt, in accordance with the law of this state." That is an affirmative defense. They can collect. They can sue. And if YOU don't assert your affirmative defense... the judge may not do it for you (he may, or may not)... The validation process is separate from their collection activity. Much more for everyone to discuss on the board. Ok... back to sequence... 1) You request validation... 2) They respond... 3) You send an "estoppel" letter... 4) They respond... 5) You send an "intent to sue" letter. Now, keep in mind, this sequence isn't the "only way" or the "right way"... It's just a way that has benefitted many I know... but... You may see other sequences that may be better for certain (or many) situations. Now, on to the difference between estoppel and intent-to-sue... Estoppel references an old English common law practice. The word is actually used in several contexts, I understand... (and again, let me reiterate my non-lawyer status)... but in our context we talk about "estoppel by silence"... In other words, the CA failed to provide validation, which is "silence" even if it was a frivolous response.


. you must stop. as I said. validation. which is why consumers are protected. Now. but.... Of course. -6-. There are clear rules about it.. "Hey. ARGH. LOL. So. about whether CAs validate or verify.) First.. Keep in mind that they don't mind being a nuisance.. then the intentto-sue letter. the FDCPA references "verification" within the Act. you're saying. you *could* do that. You be a nuisance too.and certainly lots of references to them... You don't have to be more polite than them..By their "silence. It matters because of that 30-day reference.. So that seeming contradiction keeps the courtrooms busy. I would recommend that you search the board for "reaging" and "re-aging". I'm willing to pay any debt I owe. again. etc.. But you're doing too things at once.. which they may not want to do even if they think they'd win. if you understand that a validation request is not a 61 ... People will argue. You can find all of these letters I believe on Creditboards -.. or if OCs validate or verify. I just prefer not to get into that. another controversy.Controversy abounds. Now to the last topic on our syllabus. You're saying. Some of the people arguing I respect VERY much. then estoppel. and keeps the debaters on the board debating." they are essentially admitting an inability to fulfill the lawful request. Probably NOTHING inspires more debate in our wonderful consumer advocacy community than the things I have dared to discuss tonight. "please prove this to me" and "this is definitely not mine" at the same time! If you know for a fact that something is definitely not yours. I asked for proof of this debt. So.. and they instruct everyone that a validation letter must include a debt dispute. then they're not necessarily giving up their right to assert that the debt isn't theirs. but you haven't shown that I owe this.. then there's no need to ask for proof. (And who may worry that you are a litigious crazyperson who'll drag 'em into court. The FDCPA says you must "dispute" the debt within 30 days of first collection. I have seen posts on various discussion boards on the net where the person gives a play-by-play about what constitutes a validation letter. it gives quite a lot back when it says that if a consumer doesn't do that... It's just the next letter in a sequence that can be effective with a CA who is sick of fooling with you. As we've seen. and we know how debt collectors are. Now." That's estoppel in a nutshell.

You just keep hammering them.. nah... It's soooooo late.. We've gone over by almost an hour." and you . competent validation... 1) cite the FDCPA reference that says that you don't have to roll over and 2) you say. and amazingly almost everyone has remained! So I thank you for that. I'm issuing a lawful request for information. I haven't disputed anything.... then.. END CREDIT 107 62 . They come back and say. plus..... you didn't dispute this within 30 days. I am going to do something I regret. We've covered the syallbus.. you skirt the issue altogether. proof. in the words of some lawyers I respect.) Ok..dispute. I hope tonight was helpful.. "Nah... (If that's what you want to do.

And perhaps even tapes of certain telephone conversations (in cases involving CAs who call you before you send a cease & desist). Your evidence are the letters you send and receive... slamming the phone..Course overview and format (which we've already done) -2-. Screaming.. etc. I'd like you to develop a mindset. Think in terms of a lawyer in a courtroom who calmly states his or her case with deadly seriousness and then sits down... a litigious mindset. even if you never go to court...Being litigious. and that's the topic of this last seminar of the series.Being litigious -4-. Think like the detective who deliberately collects evidence. Tonight's syllabus. cursing..My complaint letter example I'll draw from my own experience. may make you feel 63 . On to the meat of tonight's syllabus. -3-.... Fortunately (or not.. threatening.The small claims process -7-. For those who are showing up for the first time tonight. You probably will never need to file a lawsuit. that's not the way to be.Collecting evidence -6-.. More about that shortly. Tonight's session is the third of the second group. if you enjoy screaming). Your credit reports.Types of "credit repair" lawsuits -5-.. If you'll keep that in mind.LESSON SIX TRANSCRIPT CREDIT 108 This is the last of our series.Brief review of the previous sessions -3-. -1-. Now.. yelling. some people mistakenly believe that "being litigious" means turning into your grumpy Uncle Abe who yelled at everybody... I'll feel a bit more comfortable proceeding. Some of my fellow old-timers remember a half-decade ago when I successfully sued the three credit bureaus.. I really don't want the newest newcomer to get the idea that we're all about lawsuits here. I really want to give a caveat. You can literally clean up "impossible" credit reports and never set foot in a courtroom.

the final transcript will be cleaned up some so folks don't have to jump around to follow… ok.. But it probably will do nothing to assist your case. that said.. Basically. that's this one. Never misrepresent.. when the other side doesn't show. one presumes that they are DELIBERATELY doing wrong.FCRA violation: willful noncompliance with the Act That one's a very general one.. or a collection agency? many no's of course.....powerful.. I realize this is a seminar for beginners.. Here are some common violations directed toward credit bureaus (and of course there are others): -. In fact.FCRA violation: insufficient and incomplete investigation (keep in mind these are things you can sue over) -. the plaintiff (you) get awarded what's called a "default judgment". Be honest. by the way..FCRA violation: tradeline verification despite proof that such verification is impossible .. more common violations directed toward credit bureaus…. Has anyone here ever filed a lawsuit against a credit bureau...FCRA violation: not properly verified the debts as valid within the reasonable time period prescribed by statute -.. let me reassert the message from Session One.. But first. It's nice to stick onto a lawsuit.. Would you be willing to tell us about it (if you can) with just a few summary sentences? very good... a creditor. if a credit bureau demonstrates a pattern of neglecting to comply with the law.. we'll talk a bit tonight about how "playing dumb" sometimes entices the other side to break the law (their fault. but we welcome the experience and wisdom of those who've ran around the track a few times already too. On to the various types of credit repair lawsuits. The next two lawsuit complaints directed toward CRAs aren't specific to the FCRA. 64 . that "reasonable time period" has been held by courts to be 30 days.FCRA violation: failure to provide the requisite notice regarding an investigation's procedural and contact information pursuant to 611(a)(6)(B)(iii) let me retype the end there pursuant to 611(a)(6)( B )(iii) -.. -. make no mistake).FCRA violation: failure to provide information regarding an investigation pursuant to 611(a)(3)( C) -.. Now. Let me throw out a question.

gossip) about you and me..FDCPA violation: telephone contact despite a lawful cease and desist notice Right... Rather. the statutory award doesn't preclude additional damages...FDCPA violation: insufficient and incomplete validation -.e.. Remember our message from the FCRA Street Fighting seminar. So this is a good moment to reiterate that. LOL?) -.. . Inc.. with a statutory award of $1000 per… which brings us to the next list. common violations directed toward collection agencies (CAs)...FCRA violation: failure to provide information regarding an investigation pursuant to 611(a)(3)( C ) now that's for credit bureaus.. if a CA calls you at 2 in the morning for 17 days in a row.FDCPA violation: actual or implied threat -.. LOL..-. these next two aren't FCRA-specific -. and also to plug the board here which is filled with folks who stand ready to discuss every topic. there are certainly others): -. the case cited last week.. provides additional ammo for this one 65 ...FDCPA violation: continued collection activity during period of validation or dispute… By the way. Do we have one in the room tonight? (Wouldn't that be handy. :) More seriously.. if they say nasty things about you (like you don't pay your bills on time)..I'll continue listing potential violations for CAs next (not inclusive) -.Defamation of character -. and especially so if they have made an error. then they are defaming your character by definition.. (and again. but still owned by its shareholders) entities whose primary business is to buy and sell information (i. Credit bureaus enjoy no governmentally sanctioned "official" status.I'm no lawyer. they are privately owned (except for Equifax which is publicly traded. We sometimes see lawyers in our Creditboards community...Negligent enablement of identity theft Basically...FDCPA violation: harassment or abuse (pursuant to 15 USC 1692 d ) -. Recker v Central Collection Bureau.FCRA violation: failure to provide information regarding an investigation pursuant to 611(a)(3)( C ) ok.. that would indeed be 17 violations.

. in the case of CAs.When it comes to a credit report. again..FDCPA violation: false or misleading representations (pursuant to 15 USC 1692 e ) -.. and neither do they have a prior relationship with you) Just for the sake of covering the material that isn't beyond my expertise..Defamation of character although that may be less strong with CAs.. when one files a lawsuit against a CA. Ok.. That's also true for CRAs.FDCPA violation: communication with third parties (pursuant to 15 USC 1692 c ) -... insurance.FCRA violation: credit report accessed sans permissible purpose (this refers to when a company puts an inquiry on your credit report without any permissable purpose) (i.. When I sued the bureaus.. and you'll see my sample complaint shortly. Usually.. it's the CRA who defames you if they sell the erroneous information to others.-.. not all-encompassing): -.. they have defamed your character. but coupled with -. does that constitute three separate violations at $1000 a pop? very good.. LOL -.. 66 .. in cases where they are only communicating with you .... I listed multiple violations on the same suit. LOL. if a CA manages to let your boss or a neighbor (or whoever) know who they are and why they're calling you then they have not only violated the FDCPA but. Well. common violations directed toward OCs (again. employment. etc..e. let's defer questions just a bit for the moment. it lists multiple violations if there are more than one. then they have essentially told an untruth about you i... they can't show that you applied for credit. if they cannot provide adequate validation.FDCPA violation: willful noncompliance with the Act (this last one much like the FCRA one referenced for bureaus above) gotta love the "willful noncompliance" and...e. despite your assertion that the information is wrong (and if it is indeed wrong) his question. to continue. if the CA reports incorrectly to three bureaus.FDCPA violation: communication with third parties (pursuant to 15 USC 1692 c ) the "defamation of character" complaint can have teeth….FDCPA violation: unfair practices (pursuant to 15 USC 1692 f ) -.

It's the creditor's responsibility to demonstrate that they 67 .. You want to send that CRA dispute within just a few days of their receipt of the validation request... .FCBA: refusal to provide lawfully requested account information and once again.. Irrespective of whatever letters you write.About the next item on tonight's syllabus. or otherwise erroneous data to a consumer reporting agency -.. my goal was simply to clean up my reports) you can "collect your evidence".... I believe that nothing limits a consumer's nuisance quotient. If the CA "verifies" the account during the period they're supposed to be gathering the validation materials for you......... you request validation 2.. let me mention one other special case..FCBA or FCRA or FACTA violation: willful noncompliance with the [Name of] Act I wanted to mention a special case.. it was listed above briefly this business of inquiries and what the FCRA terms "permissable purpose". for what it's worth. We've seen good results with the 1-2 Punch.. -.Collecting evidence… oops.FACTA violation: reporting incomplete.. a CA has a duty to abide by the principal federal statute that regulates their profession... I have an opinion. when you're sure they've received your lawful request you immediately dispute with the bureau. It may be worth a try. -5-.. line your ducks up.. Keep in mind that even if your goal isn't to collect damages (and mine wasn't. they've violated the Act.FCBA: incorrect or untimely billing (within 30 days of statement receipt) -. which includes reporting to bureaus. they've violated the FDCPA so.. innacurrate.. The "1-2" part of the "punch" works this way 1.. When a consumer requests validation regarding an alleged debt. here's how that works. if they do...-. Ok.... Some people believe that testing the limits of a CA's compliance isn't ethical.. and use an "intent to sue" letter (search the board for good examples) to net a CRA deletion. Sometimes newcomers will see someone refer to the "1-2 Punch".. the CA cannot continue what's termed "collection activity".. Timing is everything there. Basically...

letters. Even the most benign response may show that the other party is lackadaisical about your concern. Let me do all caps for just a moment. permissable purpose" only refers to companies which take a look at your report as with inquiries Let's say there's a Verizon inquiry on your report..) spouses hate that stuff.. Your requests for information from OCs or CAs... keep it all So that's the first type of evidence collection. If they can't.and that can be a good choice... 2-party states (and there are fewer of them) require BOTH parties to 68 . I'm going to move forward -5-. on their kitchen table or computer desk... etc.. There are 1-party states and 2-party states... especially one of the strong "intent to sue" varieties (again. Basically. You don't have a Verizon cell phone.. search the board for examples) and netting a deletion of the inquiry. despite the pat advice you sometimes hear but again if you elect to deal with CAs by phone. How many people have stacks of reports. don't they? :) :) Ok. LOL? (I sure did.. You may be able to settle for the $1000 statutory award.. you may have excellent leverage for crafting a letter..evidence your concern that you may have been damaged in some way..had "permissable purpose"… Think of it this way. (Did your spouse hand over your SSN?) It's Verizon's job to demonstrate that they did indeed have permissable purpose. (something I'm usually loathe to do):) NEVER THROW ANYTHING AWAY WHILE YOU'RE ENGAGED IN YOUR CREDIT REPAIR CAMPAIGN. forget it. then you MUST record them.. And if you like the courtroom. Their responses constitute evidence. If you elect to deal with CAs by phone... everything you do in credit repair is evidence.I'll explain 1-party states refer to those states where only 1 of the tapes parties needs to know about the recording in order for the taping to be legal that means.. Your request for information (or outright disputes) directed toward CRAs. The second type is really particular to dealing with CAs.. then it's legal in those states... You don't remember telling them to pull your credit when you had that conversation with the salesman. Ok... otherwise. send a cease and desist letter to them and only deal with them with written correspondence. Keep it all....Collecting evidence. if you're doing the taping and you're one of the people on the call..

END CREDIT 108 69 . irrespective of where they are it's not your responsibility to catalog their call center geography but if YOU initiate a call to a two-party state....know about the recording. or if you live in a two-party state and you initiate the call.then you can tape... now.and YOU live in a one-party state. then you can tape's an interesting distinction that isn't often elaborated if someone calls YOU.. if they told you the call may be taped.

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