1-9 காடடபபடகிறத

20 நவமபர Ramakrishnan rUpa & lOka Let us compare these two sanskrit words with their corresponding borrowings in Tamil. rUpam = uruvam lOka = ulakam I have heard someone mention earlier that lOka in sanskrit would have been u+la+ka and that the initial vowel somehow got after the medial syllable to become la+u+ka and subsequently lOka. Now I found that this must have happened for rUpam as well... i.e. u+ru+pa becomes ru+u+pa = rUpa Tamil (and possibly kannada/other dravidian languages) preserve older stages of words that could be very helpful in reconstructing Vedic. Anyone knows further such words?

20 நவமபர Dibya (িিবয) I can't say about "rUpa", but what I do remember is about "lOka". It is speculated that in early Vedic the word "might" have actually been "ulOka", because it almost always appears in the Rgveda in the sequence "u lOka". According to this hypothesis, the reading "u lOka" is a later reanalysis of earlier "ulOka". Note: The idea is that it was "ulOka", not "ulaka", for which to become "lOka" would be extremely unlikely given what we know about the development of Sanskrit phonology.

20 நவமபர Dibya (িিবয) But that apart, the general assertion that borrowings (and their retention) in "foreign" languages may help in reconstruction of older phases of a language is totally valid, and well acknowledged. Pet examples of "standard" text-books would include the Germanic loanwords in Finnish, for example.

20 நவமபர Ramakrishnan Oh it was ulOka, thanks. Maybe then the ulOka --> ulaka would have been a process of internalization in Tamil. What about rUpa & uruvam/urupam?

20 நவமபர Dibya (িিবয) Well, within the constraints of Old Tamil phonology, the "rUpa" had to add a starting vowel. The choice of the vowel quality was probably influenced by the vowel followed. But, why the "U" of Sanskrit rUpa would become short, I don't quite understand that. Did Old Tamil have any rule of prosody by which two consecutive short syllables would be (under some circumstances) metrically equivalent to one long syllable? I am asking this, because I know it is typologically possible - Old English (and probably other Germanic languages) had this rule, and that could explain the shortening.

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இரவி/రవ "Let us compare these two sanskrit words with their corresponding borrowings in Tamil." it is wrong that the so called words were borrowed by Tamil. The Sanskrit language could not explain logically the root for roopa and loka. The word uruvam is comparable with latin word form. In tamil, the words uru, uruvam, uruvu were derived from the root "ul"(which means creation, the things having body, figure, formulate) ul->uru,uruvu, uruvam ul->uruvu->urubu urubu-> roobam->roopa (skt) The word uruvu is also found in Telugu language. ெபயரசெொால உரவம- கணணால கணடணரக கடயத. ெொாழிெபயரபபகள-ஆஙகிலம -body, shape figure, image, picture. (wiki Tamil) http://www.tamildict.com/tamilsearch.php (-meaning of uru) Tamil English பயஙகர உரவமைடய உயிர, அரககர, அரககன monster உரணைட; உலகம globe ொாறறஙகைை உரவாகக induce change ஆண உரவம male figure உடல வாக, உரவம; எண figure அைொைக; உரவம image உரககைலநத unrecognizable உரொாட format உரபபட Item உரள நிரததி Scroll lock உர Figure உரவாகக create http://www.srimadbhagavatam.org/downloads/SanskritDictionary.html in Sanskrit, following are the derivation. ruupa = beautiful form ruupaM = beaut ruupamaishvaraM = universal form ruupasa.npannau = (two)persons endowed with beautiful appearance ruupasya = form

ruupaaNi = forms ruupeNa = form ruupita* = mfn. formed, represented, exhibited, imagined Kâv. Sarvad from the words ruupa and ruupam are to be derived from ruupita. However in Tamil, the words uruvam, uruvu, urubu are derived from uru (to formulate). In Tamil, the root "uru" is in usage. "Karu uruvanadhu; urukkondaan; uruvetrinaan; and the like, unlike sanksirt so called root ruup.

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இரவி/రవ for the word Loka, the Sanskrit Pundits give 2 explanation for the origin. 1 is Lochana (to look) and another one is open space loka = this world * = m. (connected with {roka}; in the oldest texts {loka} is generally preceded by {u}, which accord. to the Padap. = the particle 3. {u}; but {u} may be a prefixed vowel and {uloka4}, a collateral dialectic form of {loka}; accord. to others {u-loka} is abridged from {uru-} or {ava-loka}), free or open space, room, place, scope, free motion RV. AV. Br. ÂS'vS'r. (acc. with {kR} or {dA} or {anu-} {nI}, to make room grant freedom "'; {loke} with gen. `" instead of "'); intermediate space Kaus'.; a tract, region, district, country, province S'Br.; the wide space or world (either `" the universe "' or, any division of it "', esp. `" the sky or heaven "'; uloka explanation for the word loka is surely in accordance with Tamil phonology. The word loka is derived from Tamil via Telugu. Tamil-Telugu) ugir (nail)--> goru ural->rolu likewise Tamil->Telugu->Sanskrit ulagam-l>okamu->Loka further ulagam (Tamil)-> ulogam-> u-loka/loka. from the word ul, sanksrit word uru (which is also tamil word) having the meaning of earth was derived ul-uru (world) ul-il-iLai (world)(Tamil and Telugu) uru-uruvi(world in Tamil)->urvi(world in Sanskrit)

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இரவி/రవ http://webapps.uni-koeln.de/cgi-bin/tamil/recherche Cologne Digital Sanskrit Lexicon: Search Results 1 uru mf(%{vI4})n. (1. %{vR} ; %{UrNu} Un2. i , 32) , wide , broad , spacious , extended , great , large , much , excessive , excellent RV. AV. MBh. Ragh. ; (%{us}) m. N. of an A1n3girasa A1rshBr. ; of a son of the fourteenth Manu BhP. VP. ; (%{vI}) f. the earth ; see

%{urvI4} , p. 218 , col. 1 ; (%{u}) n. wide space , space , room RV. (with %{kR} , to grant space or scope , give opportunity RV.) ; (%{u}) ind. widely , far , far off RV. ; (%{uruyA4} MaitrS. ; 1. %{urvyA4} and %{urviyA4} instr. of the fem.) ind. far , far off , to a distance RV. VS. TS. ; compar. %{varIyas} , superl. %{variSTha} ; [cf. Gk. $ , $ , &c.: Hib. {ur} , `" very "' ; &68196[217 ,3] %{uras} , `" power , ability.

22 நவமபர TULU In Tulu The original words for the following mentioned words are; rUpam = oru , lOka = joga.

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