King MacDonalds part 2

The King Macdonalds Part 2
John ‘KING’ MacDonell UEL ca 1740-1816
This journey started with the finding of the obituary death notice of Margaret E Kennedy who died in Feb 1905 that I came across in the Glengarry News which stated that she was a niece of John Sandfield MacDonald and both were member so the King MacDonald/ells. Margaret Mrs John S Kennedy was indeed a member of the King MacDonalds/ells dau of Alexander son of Catherine MacDonell dau of Alex bui King MacDonald son of John King MacDonell. Margaret was not a niece of the Sandfield MacDonald brothers based on available present information. Part 1 of this outline left unanswered questions which may or may not be clarified in the following updated outline. Part 1 can be view in My MacDonalds of Loup, Lundie & Fraser line connections Version 3 under Margaret MacDonell- Mrs John S Kennedy. The article April 2011 is titled -- Is Margaret-Macdonald-Mrs-John-S-Kennedy-1841-1905-Rockland-Ontario-Actually-a-niece-ofthe-Hon-John-Sandfield-MacDonald-The-King-MacDonalds-MacDonell Part1-- and can be viewed at http://scr.bi/ILjtZM

In Part 2 of this outline. I hope to clarify at least in part some of the confusion surrounding the King MacDonald/ell family. The possibility exists that there are indeed 2 such John KING MacDonald/ell families based on the available information that I am aware off. Which one does the Sandfield MacDonalds belong to is the question.
I have had for many years a copy of George Sandfield MacDonalds journal 1883- 1886 which I just again came across. On page 22 of part 1. This page is titled Marriages of my father & uncles See image of p.22 of George Sandfield’s journal below ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! Photo John Sandfield MacDonald

1 from the files of Alex W Fraser, Courtenay, BC

King MacDonalds part 2

This is my interpretation of the writing as shown on this image follows Uncle Donald first married to Josephine MacDonald 8 Jan 1844 daughter of Duncan Macdonald who was a lumber merchant and kept a store at St Andrews.1 Josephine’s mother was an aunt to Alex MacDonald [King] who is 1st cousin to Mrs McDonell wife of the Cornwall Canal Supt. A sister of Duncan MacDonald married Duncan Scott of St Andrews another sister to Arch’d McDonald [Archie taylor] of Osgoode who was uncle on the mothers side to McArthur D A store keeper at Alexandria Donald married secondly Cath Fraser daughter of Col Fraser about ’46 Two other daughters of Fraser married Judge Pringle & Sheriff McIntyre of Cornwall And a son Arch to Miss Scott of Prescott Donald Alex Sandfield 1st wife was Margaret Josephine MacDonald. They got married January 8th 1844 in Montreal. Josephines mother was a Jennet MacDonell dau of Alex ‘bui’ King MacDonell & his wife Jenny Cameron. Alex ‘bui’ King MacDonell was the son of John King MacDonell. Jennet & Duncan got married in Jan 1823 at St Andrews West RC Church Janet, Margaret Josephines mother was married twice, 1st to an Alex McMillan then to Duncan MacDonald.

1

Josephines full name is Margret Josephine MacDonald 2 from the files of Alex W Fraser, Courtenay, BC

King MacDonalds part 2

Margaret was born in Dec 1825 and died in October 1844 shortly after she was married. Donald Alex Sandfield and Margaret did not seem to have any children
from St Andrews West RC BMD Margaret was born Dec 15th, 1825, baptised Dec 18 1825, daughter of Duncan McDonell & of Jennet McDonell, Sponsors Allan McDonell, & Isabella McPhail, priest Angus McDonald

When Margaret died in 1844 Fr John recorded the following
from Fr John’s Diary 1819-1866, 1992, edited by Alex W Fraser OCT 28, 1844 MARGARET MD, AGE 19, NIAN DHONACHIDH IC DHOIL IC ALISTIR IC OANIS; THE WIFE OF DONALD MD "SANDFIELD". Margaret age 19 dau of Duncan of Donald of Alex of Angus & wife of Donald MD Sandfield

Josephine’s mother was an aunt to Alex MacDonald [King] who is 1st cousin to Mrs McDonell wife of the Cornwall Canal Supt. Duncan MacDonell Ca 1814-1875 son of Allan Mor &
his wife Mary MacDonell was apparently Superintendant of Canal in Cornwall.

Josephine’s mother was an aunt to Alex MacDonald [King] This implies & is maybe confirmed as the following Josephines mother was Janet a sister of Catherine who married Col Arch MacDonell and who had a son Alex that lived in Osgoode as did his parents. Thus Janet was an aunt of the Alex in Osgoode twp. Janet also had a brother Alexander ‘King’ This part I still have to figure out Alex MacDonald [King] who is 1st cousin to Mrs McDonell wife of the Cornwall Canal Supt. A sister of Duncan MacDonald married Duncan Scott of St Andrews now unless there are two set of Duncan Scotts this is what shows up
from St Raphael’s RC BMD 1813 marriages M 2 DUNCAN SCOTT AND CRISTINA MCDONELL On the 9th day of February 1813, Duncan Scott lawful son of Donald Scot and of Catherine McDonell, and Cristina MacDonell lawful daughter of Alexander McDonell and of Janet Cameron, both of the parish of St. Andrews, after three proclamations of banns were joined in marriage by me the undersigned priest in the parish church of St. Raphaels in presence of several witnesses. Alexander McDonell M AP V G from William D Reid’s Loyalists in Ontario, Sons & daughter of American Loyalists, 1973 p.190 McDonell, Alexander [Deaf], E half 10 south side Middle Branch, River aux Raisin, Cornwall. Died prior to November 1815 John of Cornwall, OC 14 Jan 1812 Angus of Cornwall. OC 14 Jan 1812 Allan of Cornwall. OC 11 Nov 1815 Christy, m Duncan Scott of Cornwall. OC 11 Nov 1815 Alexander of Cornwall. OC 23 Nov 1816 Mary, m John McPherson of Charlottenburgh. OC 23 Nov 1816 Catharine. OC 23 Nov 1816
3 from the files of Alex W Fraser, Courtenay, BC

King MacDonalds part 2

Duncan’s father was Donald [from Fr John’s death entry on Duncan’s daughter Margaret MacDonald in 1844 as dau of Duncan of Donald of Alex] so this Christina was not his sister. This does not mean that Duncan did not have a sister named Christina.

another sister m. to Arch’d McDonald [Archie taylor] of Osgoode. This was Catherine the sister of Janet, not Duncan. This does not mean Duncan did not have a sister called Catherine .
from Reid’s Loyalists in Ontario, Sons & daughter of American Loyalists by William D Reid 1973 McDONELL, Alexander (King's Son) of Cornwall. Alexander of Cornwall. OC 2 Feb 1819. Catharine, m. Archibald McDonell of Cornwall, Asstt Ad]. Gen. of Militia. OC 7 Feb 1821. Janet, m. (1) Alexander McMillan of Cornwall. OC 7 Feb 1821. m. (2) Duncan McDonell of St. Andrews, Cornwall, lumber merchant. from Fr John’s Diary of Deaths 1819-1866, 1992 edited by Alex W Fraser MAY 2 1858 ISABEL MacDonald? , AGE 28, IN CORNWALL SS DE RIVER RAISIN, DAU OF ALLAN SON OF ALEX BUI OF JOHN KING; & WIFE OF WILLIAM MD SON OF RANALD OF DONALD OF RANALD BAN. Again this Catherine is not a sister of Duncan the father of Margaret Josephine. This Archibald is the father of Alexander of Osgoode & he is probably that this reference refers to Josephine’s mother was an aunt to Alex MacDonald [King]

In this statement --- another sister to Arch’d McDonald [Archie taylor] of Osgoode who was uncle on the mothers side to McArthur D A store keeper at Alexandria --- it is hard to determining the correct letters of this word I have in red on the copy of the above image. As to whether the name is McArthur or some other surname I am not able to determine fully. Nevertheless this statement would imply that the Archibald Taylor Macdonell who married Catherine MacDonell dau of Alex bui King MacDonell had a sister who was the mother of that store keeper in Alexandria. More clarification is required to straighten this out. According to Royce MacGillivray work, Dictionary of Glengarry Biography p.362 under Archibald MacDonell, his sister was Mary Also Margaret the wife of Donald Alex Sandfield MacDonald was of the King MacDonells and that particular King line ended with her death and did not carry over to Donald Alex’s 2nd marriage to Catherine Fraser. Thus the Sandfield family King MacDonell connection was not here, via this marriage. So the question still comes back to HOW DID THE SANDFIELD MACDONALDS become members of the KING MacDonald/ell family. It was not through Donald Alex & his wife Margaret Josephine MacDonald. Even if it was, it would not make John Sandfield, Donald Alexs brother, in any way shape or form a member of the King MacDonell/alds So it seems that if the Sandfield MacDonald -- the 4 brothers-- are member of the King MacDonells, then it has to be tentatively through their Mother Anne parents.
4 from the files of Alex W Fraser, Courtenay, BC

King MacDonalds part 2

Ann the wife of Alex MacDonald Sandfield was married in 1811, died in 1820 was a daughter of John MacDonald/ell The King MacDonell/ald reference is to a John MacDonell/ald Also there is the story that a John MacDonald the brother of a Martin ‘KING’ MacDonald from Antigonish NS came up to Glengarry County Ontario to marry his bride to be. This John from Nova Scotia also had the designation of “ KING”. There is certainly many John MacDonald/ell in this 1790-1800 time period to get confused over, nevertheless we have tentatively 2 John MacDonald/ell with the Designation “KING” and one of those John MacDonalds would have to be the grandfather to have the 4 Sandfield MacDonalds brothers for them to be a member of the King MacDonald family. The John “KING” MacDonell father of Alex, Henrietta & Ranald were all U E Loyalists. The John “KING’ MacDonald of Nova Scotia may or may not have a U E loyalist connection. This John came to Glengarry County based on available information ca 1790-95, maybe as early as 1786. This John came to Glengarry to marry his bride to be and was the progenitor of the Sandfield MacDonald as the story from Nova Scotia goes. The timeline here is very very short. ! ! This John King MacDonald of Nova Scotia was born ca 1760-63 in Scotland, came with his brother Martin “KING” MacDonald to Nova Scotia ca 1784 -86 at age ! ! about 20 years, shortly after his arrival in NS he headed for Glengarry County in mid winter, met his bride to be and got married before lent of that year. ! ! ! Anne the mother of the 4 Sandfield brothers was born ca 1788, married in 1811 & died in 1820. Anne was the daughter of a John MacDonell/ald ! So the dilemma, contradictions continue, boiling down to the fact that if the Sandfield MacDonalds are a member of the King MacDonald, then it is through a John MacDonald/ell. Otherwise the Sandfield MacDonald have no connection to the John “King” MacDonalds/ells. The above scenario brings to the front, 2 set of John “King” MacDonalds/ells to get mixed up with and get properly sorted out. Based on the available information they are not the same person. Their Timelines do not fit, nor overlap very well. One seems to be about 20 years older than the other based on the approximate age of their children. Both of these John ‘KING’ MacDonalds/ells were married to a Catherine MacDonell/ald In the above scenario the St Raphael’s & St Andrew’s RC Church records, Fr John’s Diary and Reids Loyalists confirm each other. Assuming that that information is the correct & factual information of the families concerned. Then Margaret the wife of Donald Sandfield and Mrs. John S Kennedy were defintely related as part of one of the King MacDonald/ells family. The rest of the information is my assumptions and subject to correction & further clarification

5 from the files of Alex W Fraser, Courtenay, BC

King MacDonalds part 2

Margaret, Mrs John S Kennedy died 1905 was indeed a member of the John King MacDonalds/ells UEL as dau of Alexander son of Catherine MacDonell dau of Alex bui King MacDonald son of John King MacDonell UEL. Margaret, Mrs Donald Sandfield MacDonald died 1844 was also a member of the King MacDonell UEL family as dau of Jennet dau of Alex bui King MacDonald son of John King MacDonell UEL. The relationship between the 2 Margaret MacDonalds/ells ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ? ! ! ! ! ! ! ! Ca 1740: ca 1816 ! ! ! ! ! ! John KING MacDonald/ell UEL ! ! ! ! ! Ca1762 : bef 1828!! ! ! ! Angus ! ! ! ! ! ! Alex ‘bui’ King UEL! ! ! ! : ! ! ! ! ! ! ! :! ! ! ! ! ! Alex ! ! ! ! ! ! ! :! ! ! ! ! ! : Archibald?! ! ---------------------:----------------------------! ! Donald ! :! Ca 1787:ca 1866! ! ca 1791: ca 1860! ! ! : Archibald! M Catherine! ! ! ! Jennet m2 1823 Duncan MacDonald/ell D- 1853 Osgoode:! ! ! ! ! ! ! 1825: 1844 ! ! Alex of Osgoode 1808-! ! ! ! ! Margaret Josephine m 1844 ! ! ! M a Tobin! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! Donald Alex Sandfield ! ! 1841!: 1905! ! ! ! ! ! ! Margaret J died Oct 1844 ! ! Margaret who m. ! ! ! ! ! ! Margaret & Donald Alex had ! ! John S Kennedy! ! ! ! ! ! no children I am aware off This Margaret died Feb 1905 These 2 Margaret were 1st cousins once removed Archibald & Catherine had 12 or 13 children. There seems to have been 2 sets Alex MacDonells & Janet Camerons 1--Alexander [Deaf Alex] MacDonell d before 1815 & Geny/Janet/Jenny Cameron 2-- Alexander ‘Bui King’ MacDonell died before 1828 & Jenny Cameron

6 from the files of Alex W Fraser, Courtenay, BC

King MacDonalds part 2

The King MacDonald/ells 1 John UEL
I, Alex W Fraser, [ 4/12/12 ] do not claim what follows is either right or wrong. It is as it is based on the information I have and am aware off.
There are 2 charts 1- John McD UEL & 2- John McD NS both designated as “KING”. Both charts will have the Sandfield MacDonald listed on them. The reason for this is for comparison of the lines. The Sandfield line in both charts are in Red & Blue The Anne Sandfield line in both charts are are based on RC BMD unless there is a ca

It is all subject to correction & clarification.

! Ca 1740-1816!! ca 1745-1828 ! ! ! ! ! ! Ranald John ‘King’ MacDonell m Catherine MacDonell : UEL : ca 1755:bef 1846 : Allan ! ! ! ! -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------! ! ! : ! ! ! ! -1828! ! Ca 1762;bef 1828! ! ! 1772:1848! ! ca 1780:1849! ! ca 1788: 1820! ! 1782:1849 ! ! ! Jenny Cameron! m Alex bui King Henrietta Ranald King Anne m 1811 Alex Sandfield MacDonald ! ! ! ! ! ! :! ! ! ! ! Mar. Peter MacDonell! :! ! ! ! : ! ! ! ! ! ! :! ! ! ! ! 1763-1839! ! ! :! ! ! ! : ! -------------------------------------------------:-----------------------------! ! :! ! ! ! :! ! ! ! : Ca 1780:1869 ca1795:1857 ca1791:1860! ca1793:1849!ca1797:1849! 1803: 1870! ! ! Allan! ! ! ----------:------------------------------------------------Catherine Allan Janet ! Alex! ! William! ! Alex Peter! ! ! ! ! 1812:1872! 1818:1913 1817:1896! 1814:1895 Mar Arch MacD ! ! m. 1823! ! ! ! ! ! 1843 :!1904! ! ! ! ! John Alex F Donald A Ranald ! :! ! ! Duncan ! ! ! ! ! ! Peter! ! ! ! ! 1860:! ! ! ! m. 1844 1808:! ! ! Macdonald! ! ! ! ! ! :1914! ! ! ! George! ! ! ! Margaret 1825-1844 Alex m C. Tobin! ! 1825 :! 1844! ! ! ! ! ! Margaret ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! MacDonald! :!! ! ! Margaret 1841:1905! ! ! m 1844! ! Margaret ! ! ! Donald Alex Mar! ! ! Sandfield John S Kennedy! ! Osgoode twp

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! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! The Sandfield This outline will be included in my MacDonalds of loup V4 when it gets published Chart prepared by Alex W Fraser, Courtenay, BC info @ glengarrycounty.com
7 from the files of Alex W Fraser, Courtenay, BC

MacDonalds do not belong on this John KING U E L Family chart

King MacDonalds part 2

The King MacDonald/ells 2 John from NS & Glengarry?
I, Alex W Fraser, [ 4/12/12 ] do not claim what follows is either right or wrong. It is as it is based on the information I have and am aware off.

It is all subject to correction & clarification. There are 2 charts 1- John McD UEL & 2- John McD NS both designated as “KING”. Both charts will have the Sandfield MacDonald listed on them. The reason for this is for comparison of the lines. The Sandfield line in both charts are in Red & Blue The Anne Sandfield line in both charts are are based on RC BMD unless there is a ca ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! Ca 1688-1766 ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! Ian MacDonald MacDonalds of Loup ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! Ca 1710:1788 ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! Donald m Mary MacDonald ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! : ! ! :!--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------:------------------------------------------------------------------------------------! ! :!Ca 1748:1825! NS! ! ! ! ! ca 1759:1827 NS & Glengarry?! ! ! ! ! ! 1760:1859!! ! ! ! :-- Martin King ! ! ! ! Ian/John KING m Catherine MacDonald ! ! Ranald! ! ! ! Donald ‘Taylor’ lanc 5C N31 ! ! :!! :! ! ! ! ! ! ! :! ! ca 1755: bef 1846! ! ! ! m Harriet Abbott ! ! :! Ca 1782-1858 Cornwall, Ont ! ! -------------------:------------------------------! Allan! ! ! ! ! 1769-1829 ! ! :-- John MacDonell ! ! ! ! ! ! ca 1788: 1820!! 1782:1849 ! ! ! ! ! ! ! : ! ! :! m Catherine Robinson?! ! ! ! ! Anne m 1811 Alex Sandfield MacD ! ! ! ! ! 1791:1877 ! ! :-- Hugh King 1814-1872! ! ! ! ! ! ! :! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! John ! ! :-- Ronald 1818-1886! ! ! ! ! -----------------------------:-------------------------------------! ! ! ! ! ! 1827:1896 ! ! :-- Donald ca 1816-1890! ! ! ! 1812:1872! 1818:1913 1817:1896! 1814:1895! ! ! ! Donald ! ! :-- Angus ca 1819-ca 1878! ! ! ! John Alex F Donald A Ranald! ! ! ! ! 1858:ca1926 ! ! :-- Mary!ca 1821-1887!! ! ! ! 1860:! ! ! ! m. 1844!! ! ! ! ! ! Dr D D ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! George! ! ! Margaret 1825-1844! ! ! ! ! ! Alexandria ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! Dau of Duncan & Janet
! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !

The Sandfield MacDonalds may not belong on this chart either. Nevertheless the door is open for that possibility. Awf

This outline will be included in my MacDonalds of loup V4 when it get published Chart prepared by Alex W Fraser, Courtenay, BC info@glengarrycounty.com

8 from the files of Alex W Fraser, Courtenay, BC

King MacDonalds part 2

SUMMARY
The question now is which John ‘King’ MacDonald do the Sandfield MacDonalds come from? More fine tuning has to be done. The obituary-death notice of Mrs John S Kennedy in 1905 indicated that John Sandfield MacDonald was a member of the King MacDonells. This would imply that the Kings MacDonells which this Mrs John S Kennedy descendent from as UE Loyalist, thus John Sandfield would also be of Loyalist descent if this were true. There is no information that I am aware of that the Sandfield MacDonald boys were of Loyalist descent. The wife of John KING MacDonell UEL was Catherine macDonell/ald The Anne who married in 1811 Alex Sandfield MacDonald had parents John & Catherine MacDonald If the John brother of Martin from NS is the father of this Ann who married Alex Sandfield, then his bride to be was also a Catherine MacDonald Thus, the King MacDonell line that Margaret-Mrs John S Kennedy came from was a different King MacDonell family al together, leaving the door open that some how the John KING MacDonald from Antigonish NS is the King MacDonald family that the Sandfield MacDonald are descent from. This assumption is still very weak do to lack of supporting information to back it up with dates & such. The story seems to exist in Nova Scotia that this is true, but not so much up in Glengarry County. There was family connections & communication between Glengarry & Cape Breton families. My Mother [Grace McDonald] mother Johanna McGillis parents Ranald McGillis came to NS from around Glasgow Scotland and then settle in Lochiel Township My conclusion is that the King MacDonell family that Margaret the 1st wife of Donald Alex Sandfield MacDonald was part of was the same King MacDonell family that Margaret MacDonell, Mrs John S Kennedy came from. This King MacDonell family was not the King MacDonald family that the the Sandfield MacDonalds were a member off. Everything indicates that the Sandfield MacDonald were not of U E Loyalist descent, thus eliminating this the Sandfield MacDonald family from that John King MacDonell UEL line unless new evidence

and documentation comes up to change this conclusion.
In the obituary-death notice of Mrs John S Kennedy in The Glengarry News of February 1905 it stated that she & John Sandfield MacDonald were both members of the King MacDonell family and that John Sandfield was an uncle. The uncle aspect has been dealt with in part 1 of the King MacDonells Part 1 of this outline on the King MacDonalds show that Margaret, Mrs John S Kennedy was not a niece of John Sandfield MacDonald. The statement that she, Margaret- Mrs John S Kennedy & John Sandfield MacDonald were both members of the King MacDonell family was both correct & wrong at the same time. Right in that they were both members of the King MacDonald/ell family Wrong in that they were members of TWO different King MacDonald/ell families who were not connected to each other in any way from the present family information available . Now the journey continues to put more meat on the bones of 2nd John King MacDonald family origine, the gap between ca 1784 and 1815 or 20, providing that this John King is indeed the John King from Nova Scotia the brother of Martin KING MacDonald.
9 from the files of Alex W Fraser, Courtenay, BC

King MacDonalds part 2

It seems that almost the only information for this scenario is the cultural, verbal story that exists in Nova Scotia of that John KING MacDonald being the progenitor of the Sandfield MacDonalds. Peter MacDonald of Manitoba quoted some books where this is mentioned. On p.56 of the George Sandfield Journal part 1 there is the following quote John Macdonald was from Knoydart, [ referring to ] Scotland My fathers’s maternal grandfather had a large ashery but got involved 2 & lost his property Question:-- was this John the John King [of Nova Scotia ] John KING MacDonald of NS came from Knoydart Scotland as did many of the MacDonalds in both Cape Bretan & Glengarry of which many were interrelated. My mothers MacDonald line came from Knoydart, Scotland and were UE Loyalists Alex W Fraser >> Grace MacDonald 1910-1982 >> Angus William 1856-1948 >> William 1804-1879 >> Alexander ca 1776 - ca 1850>> Duncan UEL 1743-1836 >> John ca 1715-ca 1786 >> Hugh ca 1696 - 1760 >> Ian Mor ca 1635-1720 [MacDonalds of Loup] Rory ca 1600-1674 >> Donald 1570-1650 >> John Mor 1539-1625 When all the facts, or at least most of them are accounted for, then what is left is the truth, the reality regardless of how it looks. There is still more work to be done on the John KING MacDonald from Nova Scotia, before this puzzle of the KING MacDonald/ells is fully solved.

My conclusion at this time, subject to correction, documentation clarification if it exists, is that the Sandfield brothers are actually descendants of John “KING” MacDonald from Nova Scotia . In part, due to the elimination of the UEL John ‘KING” MacDonellsas their ancestry and the verbal family story of a John “KING” MacDonald of Nova Scotia as being the progenitor of the Sandfield MacDonalds.
I can be proven mistaken on my above perspective, conclusion, as this is only one view point which has gaps required to be filled in.. Alex W Fraser Courtenay, BC April 12, 2012 Info@glengarrycounty.com

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in this John of the ashery The “ involved” bit is not enlarged on so this leave questions?? 10 from the files of Alex W Fraser, Courtenay, BC

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