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English translation of the conversation between Ramesh Upadhyaya and SudhakarDwivedi (25 anuary 2!!"# $ E%cerpts

Ramesh Upadhyaya: Ten to twelve years, how much ever time it takes we should be on theilluminating path of righteous duty. If we loose our way then we should be punished. It isimportant to stay away from temptations. e are going to apply this approach in our everydaylives. !uty should not suffer, rule and administration should be in place. The model of "handragupta #aurya has been continued for centuries and it can successfully be carriedforward. I am hopeful. $econdly, there are different ways to convince and help understand different kinds of people.There is a possibility to awaken this issue at the national and international level. %ven theconstitution can be changed by entering the system through elections. The possibilities arefrom both the sides. If we keep our mind and vision open then anything is possible. ho will be successful in the end only time can tell. &harat has seen many varieties of people in the last'( years but still no problem has been solved in this secular country. )t the same time this isto be remembered that we did not get *halistan. *halistan+s government formation could not be achieved. Indian army and the government have the force to suppress a movement evenours if we also loose our way. &ut there are many reasons why the *halistan governmentcould not be formed which includes lack of unity amongst the members and also the depletingimpact of their religion. $ome became robbers while others, like the na-alites, are running amovement. !espite many shortcomings it is still continuing with everything being supplied tothem be it from "hina or here itself. n the other hand in every corner of the country thesituation is such that there is a kind of na-alite rule going on. )bhinav &harat+s concept is a permanent concept even if its name is changed to $anatan&harat but its base remains that of righteous duty. /or its fulfillment a core committee isre0uired. %nough time has been spent talking. The committee should have rotating memberssince members would be oining from various speciali2ed fields. This committee can beformed for a particular period like 3, 4 or 5 years. 6ranting of responsibility to the committeewill be subect to change like international or national level propaganda. hile some other members at the same time should be used to spread fear amongst the #uslim and "hristiancommunities. This action has to be kept alive like the blast in 7yderabad mos0ue. There wasno one involved from the I$I or anything. It was one of our men only. This was done in thename of duty.

8)nother reason for the fall of *halistan movement was that after Indira 6andhi+sassassination 7indus were so angry that they took the $ikhs and beat them hard. 9To say thatonly 7indus were most angry is not fair. 7indus were led, the people behind were someoneelse. $udhakar !wivedi: ith this, the belief in $ikhs that they were invincible, is shattered.$o the same way $I#I these days seems invincible but it can be broken. &ut its meaningshould not be taken at the level of conscious struggle, lower level, political movement, socialmovements or social service. ;ot ust at the level of 7indu awakening or its action. 9<eopleonly preach with words....but the one who can light fire with words we should be like that.!alai =ama in 5> years has been unable to say that "hina has done inustice with Tibet. 7ecould not even awaken his own people. 7e can only speak of peace in small internationalforums here and there. ;othing will happen of Tibet like this. 7is talk is only symbolic of their struggle but nothing more. This struggle means nothing. Upadhyaya: The worst that man fears is that when he take to arms struggle he can be defeatedand made to be on the floor. e are prepared for the worst. It is important to be mentally prepared. If the organi2ation is banned then what would be the policy? Then the policy would be to challenge it legally through a stay order. If this is registered in the U; then the ban heredoes not hold any meaning. &ut even if it is banned here then the organi2ation can beinternationali2ed by its workings in Israel and $ingapore. The vision for India is not thisshrunk, limited &harat. The principle is simple: @if you are not a 7indu then you are myenemy because I am not safe till the time you are here. I feel insecure by your presence.+