Air Date: 8/9/21
The Upgrade by Lifehacker How to Negotiate Absolutely Anything, With Negotiation Expert VictoriaMedvec
Jordan
Hey, and welcome to The Upgrade, the podcastfrom the team at Lifehacker,where we help you improve your life one week at atime. I'm Jordan Calhoun, editor inchief of Lifehacker.
Meghan
And I'm Meghan Walbert, Lifehacker's managingeditor.
Jordan
And today we're becoming expert negotiators.
Meghan
That's right. Or we're at least going to tryto learn how to negotiate with anyoneon anything. And we've got revered negotiation expertDr. Victoria Medvec to help.
Victoria Medvec
And I argue that even in a one shotnegotiation with the car salespersonor a negotiation in a grocery store or a negotiationfor yourself with your employer, youshould be very, very focused on addressing the otherside's needs and less focused on just what you want to get. And I would argue you willget more when you begin by focusingon the other side rather than yourself.
Jordan
Vicki is a professor at the Kellogg Schoolof Management at NorthwesternUniversity and the CEO of Medvec and Associates, aconsulting firm focused on highstakes negotiations and strategic decisions.
Meghan
She's also a renowned expert in the areas ofnegotiation, executive decisionmaking and corporate governance. She teaches thesetopics to senior-level executivesfrom companies like McDonald's, JPMorgan Chase, HewlettPackard and Microsoft. Andshe advises CEOs on critical decisions and negotiations.Her new book is called NegotiateWithout Fear: Strategies and Tools to Maximize YourOutcomes.
Jordan
Meghan, are you an expert negotiator? Whatdoes Meghan look like in negotiationmode?
Meghan
Oh, Jordan. It's not good. It's not good.
Jordan
Tell me what your negotiation style is like.
Meghan
Well, I just I, I will ask you for one thingand if you tell me no, then no means no. And that's fine. And I'm sorry, I asked.
Jordan
So you are so respectful of boundaries thatyou are actually apologetic.
Meghan
Yes.
Jordan
Just just for just for coming close to theline.
Meghan
Yes. Could you could you give me a slight dealon this shirt? No? OK, I'll pay fullprice. I got you. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Jordan, areyou any better? Please tell me you'rebetter.1
Air Date: 8/9/21
Jordan
Oh I, I feel I'm pretty good at it but not because of substance but more style. Ithink, I think my—listen, I am a six foot two black man who speaks sort of excitedly when Iget into it if I'm passionate about something. AndI think that that goes an extremely longway when it comes to negotiation.
Meghan
Yes.
Jordan
Like for better or worse, the world fears me,of course. And I am just you know,I've got some problems with being a six foot two blackman operating in the country, butnegotiation usually isn't one of them. If I am speakingin a voice that seems moreauthoritative than I'm actually feeling at the time,like even if I do feel the way that you'reexpressing verbally when you're saying like, well,can I have this or whatever, like I don'tuse that tone, even if I feel it on the inside. AndI think people respond to that in a certainway. But when it comes to actually strategizing, Idon't know if I'm any better or worse thananyone.
Meghan
Right. Right. So it's more you can...You cansort of float on your temperamentand your personality, right?
Jordan
Yeah.
Meghan
Maybe the planning is where you could do alittle better.
Jordan
Right, exactly. And that's where Vicki canhopefully help us out a little bit there.
Meghan
All right. Great.
Jordan
Victoria, thanks so much for joining us. Welcometo The Upgrade.
Victoria Medvec
Thank you for having me Jordan, andthank you for having me Meghan.I'm so excited to be with the two of you today andtalking to your listeners.
Jordan
I am so glad to have you, too. And I want tostart with some broader context here,because personally, in the past, I did not have sucha growth mindset when it came toknowing how to negotiate and whether that was a skillthat someone could actually learn. Iremember thinking back to a class that I was goingto enroll in or potentially could haveenrolled in and grad school that was called negotiationand conflict management. And Iremember looking at that on the course offerings andthinking that this was just a moneygrab. Like this is just sort of this silly sort ofclass where you're going to be trying to learnthings that are sort of ineffable. Like those arethings that, in my opinion at the time, weresort of natural, it'd be like teaching someone tobe popular or teaching someone to be ableto be influential or something like that. And my perspectivewas that, you know, these aresort of intangibles. These aren't really things that...Youknow you can't teach a veryunconfident person to suddenly be this bullish negotiatorthat's highly skilled. I now don'thave that opinion at all. So I want to hear from you.How do you how did you get tobecome an expert in the field? And is negotiationsomething that a regular person canlearn? Can you go from being completely unskilledat this to being able to negotiate in allareas of your life?
Victoria Medvec
Great question, Jordan, then one ofthe things that I think your questionreveals is this, this supposition that people havethat it's all about the style of how Inegotiate. And[00:05:23]I would actually argue thatstrategy trumps style. And then having2
Air Date: 8/9/21
the right strategies actually allows you to be much, much more effective. Some people areincredibly confident and they approach negotiationas though their style and personalitywill take the day and they often end up with worseoutcomes, than more introverted,quieter people who have the right strategy.[24.5s]So clearly, if I have the right personalityand I have the right strategy, I probably get a hugeadvantage. But[00:05:56]I would arguethat strategy trumps style and that people who havethe right strategies are effectiveregardless of their personality or style.[8.1s]Sothe book Negotiate Without Fear, reallytalks about different strategies that you can deploythat are independent of your personality, independent of your style. What strategyshould you use? And the reality iswhen you use the strategies, you're going to increaseyour effectiveness in all types of negotiations. You mentioned negotiating in the everydayworld, negotiating with thecustomer, negotiate with the supplier, and then otherbig focal point is negotiating for yourself, because I think a lot of people don't believethat they could go in and negotiatefor themselves and they're not confident in doingthat. And that fear impedes them frombeing effective. So what I wanted to do was to takethe fear out of negotiations, regardlessof the type of negotiation they're encountering.
Jordan
That is so interesting, because I think I dothink of style when I think of negotiating,I think of dealing with a car salesman, basically,that's my first thought.
Victoria Medvec
Yeah. And I don't think that we wantyou to look like a car salesperson inparticular when you're negotiating with your employer,with the relationship matters a greatdeal. We want you to have the right strategy to beable to build the relationship andmaximize your outcomes at the same time.
Meghan
So before we talk about the right way to dothis, I'm wondering what are somecommon wrong ways? What are the ways that we're goinginto a negotiation, either from amindset perspective or a strategy perspective thatis sort of shooting ourselves in the footbefore we even get started?
Victoria Medvec
So the number one piece, Meghan, ishaving the wrong conversation. And in fact, that's a trap that both novice negotiatorsencounter. But it's also the first of atrap that expert negotiators encounter. So the bookis really designed to help people at alldifferent levels. And it highlights traps that expertnegotiators run into people who do thisevery day. And everyone in that range falls into thisone trap, which is a lot of times wenegotiate the wrong deal. We go in and we negotiatea single issue or we go in and weonly negotiate what is standard or typical to be discussedand we don't put the right issueson the table. So this is, for example, when peoplewill say the key, how do I negotiate mysalary? And I say, you should never be negotiatingonly your salary. It should be adiscussion about your employment engagement that hasa lot of components to it, but not just salary alone. So[00:08:36]I would argue thatthe number one thing that we make amistake about is we put the wrong issues on the tableand not enough issues. The secondthing is that we often focus on ourselves. So we goto the table and we say, I want thisbecause I need this because I have to have it, asopposed to thinking about it and focusingon addressing the other side's pressing business.And I argue that even in a one-shotnegotiation with the car salesperson or a negotiationin a grocery store or a negotiation ina department store or a negotiation for yourself withyour employer or in negotiation withthe customer, you should be very, very focused onaddressing the other side's needs andless focused on just what you want to get. And I wouldargue you will get more when youbegin by focusing on the other side rather than yourself.[52.7s]3