1 (Pages 1 To 4)

PINNER, RICHARD B.
7/17/2008
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

EASTERN DISTRICT OF LOUISIANA 1 ALSO PRESENT:
IN RE: KATRINA CANAL BREACHES CIVIL ACTION
2 JOSEPH E. BEARDEN, III, ESQ.
CONSOLIDATED LITIGATION NO. 05-4182 K2 3 R. SCOTT HOGAN, ESQ.
JUDGE DUVAL
PERTAINS TO: MRGO AND ROBINSON 4 DARCY DECKER, ESQ.
(No. 06-2268) 5 WILLIAM D. TREEBY, ESQ.
Deposition of RICHARD B. PINNER, P.E., 6
given at the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers New
Orleans District offices, 7400 Leake Avenue, 7 PRESENT VIA I-DEP:
New Orleans, Louisiana 70118-3651, on July
17th, 2008. 8 ADRIAN WAGER-ZITO, ESQ.
9 J. WARREN GARDNER, JR., ESQ.
10 SCOTT GASPARD, ESQ.
11 WILLIAM D. TREEBY, ESQ.
12
REPORTED BY:
13 VIDEOGRAPHER:
JOSEPH A. FAIRBANKS, JR., CCR, RPR 14 GILLEY DELORIMIER (DEPO-VUE)
CERTIFIED COURT REPORTER #75005
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Page 1 Page 3
1 APPEARANCES: 1 EXAMINATION INDEX

2 REPRESENTING THE PLAINTIFFS: 2
3 BRUNO & BRUNO 3 EXAMINATION BY: PAGE
4 (BY: JOSEPH M. BRUNO, ESQUIRE) 4
5 855 Baronne Street 5 MR. BRUNO .................................6
6 New Orleans, Louisiana 70113 6 EXHIBIT INDEX
7 504-525-1335 7
8 8 EXHIBIT NO. PAGE
9 REPRESENTING THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: 9 Exhibit Pinner No. 1 ........................70
10 UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE, 10 Exhibit Pinner No. 2 ........................93
11 TORTS BRANCH, CIVIL DIVISION 11 Exhibit Pinner No. 3 .......................159
12 (BY: RICHARD STONE, ESQUIRE) 12
13 (BY: PAUL LEVINE, ESQUIRE) 13
14 P.O. Box 888 14
15 Benjamin Franklin Station 15
16 Washington, D.C. 20044 16
17 202-616-4289 17
18 18
19 REPRESENTING THE U.S. ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEERS. 19
20 CORPS OF ENGINEERS, OFFICE OF COUNSEL 20
21 (BY: JENNIFER LABOURDETTE, ESQUIRE) 21
22 7400 Leake Avenue 22
23 New Orleans, Louisiana 70118-3651 23
24 504-862-2843 24
25 25
Page 2 Page 4
1 (Pages 1 to 4)
Johns Pendleton Court Reporters 800 562-1285
PINNER, RICHARD B.
7/17/2008
1 STIPULATION 1 although I would like to believe it. And if

2 IT IS STIPULATED AND AGREED by and 2 you need some explanation or something, you can
3 among counsel for the parties hereto that the 3 just stop and tell me. All right?
4 deposition of the aforementioned witness may be 4 A. Okay.
5 taken for all purposes permitted within the 5 Q. Secondly, counsel for the government
6 Federal Rules of Civil Procedure, in accordance 6 and other counsel may from time to time object.
7 with law, pursuant to notice; 7 The way it works is that they have the right to
8 That all formalities, save reading 8 object to preserve the objection. And so
9 and signing of the original transcript by the 9 they're only preserving the objection unless
10 deponent, are hereby specifically waived; 10 it's an objection to form, because if there's
11 That all objections, save those as to 11 something wrong with the way the question's
12 the form of the question and the responsiveness 12 asked, I'll try to change it. Okay? Point is,
13 of the answer, are reserved until such time as 13 though, that you are still required to answer
14 this deposition, or any part thereof, is used 14 the question so that we have a record. And if
15 or sought to be used in evidence. 15 we need a Court to resolve the objection we'll
16 16 do that at a later time.
17 17 Is that okay?
18 * * * 18 A. Yep.
19 19 Q. Okay. I think that's all I got on
20 20 that point, unless I forgot something.
21 21 And you have to opportunity at the end
22 JOSEPH A. FAIRBANKS, JR., CCR, RPR, 22 of this deposition to read this thing and make
23 Certified Court Reporter in and for the State 23 corrections if there are any mistakes before
24 of Louisiana, officiated in administering the 24 you sign. Okay? And Richard and you will talk
25 oath to the witness. 25 afterward and decide whether you want to
Page 5 Page 7
1 RICHARD B. PINNER, P.E. 1 reserve that right or whether you want to waive
2 7400 Leake Avenue, Room 116, New Orleans, 2 that.
3 Louisiana 70118, a witness named in the above 3 MR. STONE:
4 stipulation, having been first duly sworn, was 4 We will. It's reserved.
5 examined and testified on his oath as follows: 5 MR. BRUNO:
6 EXAMINATION BY MR. BRUNO: 6 Reserved. There it is. It's on
7 Q. Good morning, again, Mr. Pinner. My 7 the record.
8 name is Joseph Bruno, as I indicated before we 8 EXAMINATION BY MR. BRUNO:
9 started the deposition. 9 Q. And it's necessary, for him to take
10 First, have you ever given a 10 down what we're saying, that one of us speak at
11 deposition before? 11 a time.
12 A. No. 12 A. Sure.
13 Q. Okay. Let me just give you a little 13 Q. Mr. Pinner, let's begin with you
14 sense of what you can expect. Obviously, you 14 sharing with us your education.
15 see this gentleman here is here to take down 15 A. Okay. I got a BS degree in civil
16 everything that you and I say and the other 16 engineering. I got that from the University of
17 lawyers in the room say. So it's very 17 New Orleans, 1979. I took some graduate
18 important that we have an understanding of 18 courses at Tulane University in the early
19 that, particularly with regard to whether or 19 eighties. I took some business courses in the
20 not you understand a question that I might ask 20 eighties, also at University of New Orleans.
21 because your answer will be put down. So if 21 And I went on and got may Master's degree at
22 you don't understand my question, please tell 22 the Oklahoma State University in 1989 in civil
23 me -- 23 engineering.
24 A. Sure. 24 Q. The Master's degree that you obtained,
25 Q. -- because they're not always perfect, 25 did it have any particular field of
Page 6 Page 8
2 (Pages 5 to 8)
PINNER, RICHARD B.
7/17/2008
1 specialization or did you have some special 1 Q. Other than the time that you left the
2 interest in connection with that degree? 2 Corps to work for McDermott, have you been
3 A. I mean, it was civil in general but 3 employed by the United States Army Corps of
4 also leaning towards geotechnical. 4 Engineers?
5 Q. Right. Okay. Would it be fair to say 5 A. Yes.
6 that, you know, you have an interest in the 6 Q. Okay. So let's see. So '79 to '81,
7 geotechnical side of civil engineering? 7 and then we have '83 to the present.
8 A. Yes. 8 A. Correct.
9 Q. And that you have a fair expertise in 9 Q. Are you a licensed civil engineer?
10 that field? 10 A. Yes.
11 A. Yes. 11 Q. And when did you obtain your license?
12 Q. Okay. Good. When did you first 12 A. Maybe 1984.
13 become employed by the Corps? 13 Q. Okay. So now let's talk a little bit
14 A. Um -- May of 1979. 14 about, you know, what you've done at the Corps.
15 Q. Okay. And that was full-time 15 I guess let me try to make it easy on myself.
16 employment? 16 Have you been employed by the Corps at
17 A. Full-time employment. 17 the New Orleans District office for the entire
18 Q. Okay. So you obtained these other -- 18 time that you've been employed by the Corps?
19 this other, the Master's, and you did the other 19 A. In general, yes.
20 course work while you were employed here. 20 Q. Okay.
21 A. Some of that course work, yes. Some 21 A. I mean, I have other duties. I went
22 of the other places when I worked at McDermott, 22 to St. Louis on a temporary assignment.
23 Inc. 23 Q. Sure.
24 Q. Did you leave the Corps at any time? 24 A. Also helped FEMA after major
25 A. Yes. 25 disasters.
Page 9 Page 11
1 Q. Okay. 1 Q. Right.
2 A. Between 1981 and 1983. 2 A. Mainly at the Corps. New Orleans
3 Q. Was it from '81 to '83, or was it two 3 District.
4 different times that you left? 4 Q. Mainly out of this office.
5 A. '81 to '83. February '81 to February 5 A. Correct.
6 '83. 6 Q. Okay. Good. So, '79 to '81. What
7 Q. Why did you leave? 7 was your entry level position?
8 A. Different opportunities. 8 A. Engineer in training. I got rotated
9 Q. Okay. And did you work for more than 9 through different offices during that time
10 one employer during that time? 10 frame. My last six months was in geotech
11 A. No. 11 branch before I left.
12 Q. Just McDermott? 12 Q. When you say you were rotated, we've
13 A. Correct. 13 had -- I don't have it with me today and I
14 Q. Okay. And what did you do for 14 apologize for that, but we had an
15 McDermott? 15 organizational chart for the New Orleans
16 A. I worked in their structural 16 District office.
17 engineering plus their pipeline department. 17 A. Okay.
18 That's where most of my experience was, in 18 Q. And my memory is that there's an
19 their pipeline department. 19 engineering department --
20 Q. The experience in the pipeline 20 A. Correct.
21 department, was that mostly structural type 21 Q. -- as well as various other
22 engineering or was there any geotechnical stuff 22 departments; planning and construction and
23 involved? 23 things like that.
24 A. Mainly, um -- installation of 24 A. Right.
25 pipelines offshore. 25 Q. The training that you did, was it all
Page 10 Page 12
3 (Pages 9 to 12)
PINNER, RICHARD B.
7/17/2008
1 within the engineering department? 1 Q. Can you identify the sections?

2 A. No, for the first six months, no. 2 A. I guess -- I think one was named
3 It's operations, planning, construction. 3 structural foundations section, and the other
4 Q. Okay. So you got a chance to taste 4 one was dams and levees section. And you had
5 some of the experiences in all the various 5 the geology section.
6 departments. 6 Q. That's it? Where does geotech fall,
7 A. Right. Couple weeks in each office. 7 structural?
8 Q. I got you. Okay. And then after that 8 A. Structural and levees -- dams and
9 six-month period, where did you settle into? 9 levees. Both of those are geotechnical
10 A. Geotech. Geotechnical branch. 10 positions.
11 Q. Well, I guess '79 to '81 seems like 11 Q. Okay. So are there geotechnical
12 two years, but it's really one year? 12 engineers in each of those two sections?
13 A. Year and a half. 13 A. Correct.
14 Q. Year and a half. Okay. All right. 14 Q. Okay.
15 So you finally get assigned to the 15 A. And that's the org back in the
16 engineering department, if you will, and then 16 eighties -- organization. That's the
17 you are assigned to the geotechnical section 17 organization back in the eighties.
18 within the engineering department. Is that 18 Q. How has it changed over time, if it
19 accurate? 19 has?
20 A. Branch. Geotechnical branch. 20 A. It changed. Now we have -- we don't
21 Q. Branch. Okay. That's a better word. 21 really have sections now. We have more of a
22 I've heard it called section, branch -- 22 flat organization. We still have geotechnical
23 A. We've got section within the branch. 23 engineers, we have material engineers, we have
24 Q. Okay. Would it be fair for me to 24 geologists, environmental engineers, and, um --
25 conclude that since you returned in '83 that 25 the inspection group.
Page 13 Page 15
1 the majority of your time has been spent in the 1 Q. All right. Now, it is my
2 geotechnical branch of the engineering 2 understanding that the employees in the
3 department? 3 engineering department are required to keep
4 A. Majority, yes. 4 their time so that that time can be billed
5 Q. Okay. All right. 5 against a particular project. Is that
6 A. I had a temporary assignment in 6 accurate?
7 structures branch for two months, and I had a 7 A. Correct. Yes.
8 year and a half assignment in their periodic 8 Q. Is that still true today?
9 inspection group. Inspection of structures. 9 A. Yes.
10 Q. All right. It might be helpful then 10 Q. All right. How does that -- is there
11 to kind of get on the record the structure of 11 a manual or is there some sort of a piece of
12 the geotechnical branch. 12 paper that would instruct one of your employees
13 What is the title of the person who is 13 as to how to do that?
14 in charge of the geotechnical branch? 14 A. I know we got guidelines. As far as
15 A. Me. 15 anything over I think fifteen minutes or half
16 Q. Back then. 16 an hour is billable to projects. You know, and
17 A. Oh, back then? 17 that's more or less distributed to all
18 Q. By title, not name. What do you call 18 employees by personnel.
19 them? 19 Q. All right. And how do you record the
20 A. Chief of geotech branch. 20 time? For example, do you make a note to
21 Q. He's a chief. 21 yourself in writing or is there a computer
22 A. Right. 22 program that you can simply access?
23 Q. And there are a variety of sections 23 A. We got a computer program that we
24 within the branch. 24 insert our time each day.
25 A. Correct. 25 Q. Okay. Would you happen to know the
Page 14 Page 16
4 (Pages 13 to 16)
PINNER, RICHARD B.
7/17/2008
1 same of the software, like Time Slips or -- 1 right?

2 A. It's an Excel spreadsheet. 2 A. Correct.
3 Q. Excel. Okay. And for how long has 3 Q. That's the --
4 the Corps had the capacity to allow the folks 4 A. The planning department and project
5 to keep their time with an Excel spreadsheet? 5 management group.
6 A. I couldn't tell you. 6 Q. Okay. All right. As I also have
7 Q. All right. Was it there in '83? 7 learned in the course of taking these many
8 A. No. 8 depositions, your group provides support --
9 Q. Okay. Has it been in place for more 9 engineering support to the other departments.
10 than ten years? 10 Right?
11 A. I guess around ten years. 11 A. Correct.
12 Q. Okay. Fair enough. Before the 12 Q. Okay. Now, please help me understand
13 computer, they were just handwritten. 13 how a request for support comes into your
14 A. Handwritten. 14 office. For example, does it come from the
15 Q. Okay. Now, what I'm curious to 15 engineering chief down, or does it come from
16 understand is if you're required to keep your 16 another department across, directly to, for
17 time how do you know if you have permission or 17 example, the structures section?
18 the right to work on a particular project? I 18 A. It comes I guess across. We have
19 mean, is it the case that you simply do the 19 almost like a project management group within
20 work and record the time, or is it the case 20 engineering division. The project management
21 that you're told, look, you've got some hours 21 division should supply that project to the
22 that you can devote to this project and keep 22 project management group in our office, and
23 your time? 23 they would decide who needed to be on that
24 MR. STONE: 24 team, whether a geotechnical engineer needed to
25 Objection. Vague. 25 be on the team, a structural engineer or a
Page 17 Page 19
1 Are you talking about now as the 1 civil engineer. I would say in most projects,
2 manager, or at a time when he was 2 I would say a geotechnical engineer is on the
3 first with the Corps? 3 team. Not all projects.
4 EXAMINATION BY MR. BRUNO: 4 Q. So that person knows, before -- well,
5 Q. I think to make it easier for both of 5 that person knows, at some point, that he or
6 us so that I don't have to ask the question 6 she will be a part of the work effort conducted
7 twelve times, let's talk about in '83. And 7 by the project department.
8 then if there's been a change over time just 8 A. Correct.
9 tell me what the change is. 9 Q. Depending upon the project itself,
10 Is that okay with you? 10 obviously.
11 A. Sure. 11 A. Right.
12 Q. So let's go back to '83. 12 Q. Okay. All right. For how long were
13 A. '83, I guess any project we would try 13 you in the -- let's see what you told me. You
14 to work on, we'd try to give an estimate. PM 14 were in the structural section, right?
15 is asked how much time it might take to 15 A. A couple of months. Two months.
16 complete that project. Again, it's an 16 Q. And then where did you go from there?
17 estimate. And in the geotechnical field, you 17 A. Back to geotech branch.
18 know, sometimes we can design things quicker, 18 Q. Were you not within a section anymore,
19 sometimes it takes a bit longer. So we give an 19 you were in more of a supervisory capacity?
20 estimate. 20 A. No, I was in more or less a section,
21 Q. All right. Now you made a reference 21 just getting some type of cross-training, just
22 to a PM. Would you please explain that for the 22 an idea of what they did up there.
23 record. 23 Q. How long did your training last?
24 A. Project manager. 24 A. I mean, that's a tough question. I
25 Q. That's in a different department, 25 mean, we had -- when I say training, I always
Page 18 Page 20
5 (Pages 17 to 20)
PINNER, RICHARD B.
7/17/2008
1 feel like I'm in training. 1 here to talk about things that occurred before
2 Q. Yeah. And I'm with you. And I 2 Hurricane Katrina.
3 respect that. 3 A. Okay.
4 A. Okay. 4 Q. So I guess what I'd like to say to you
5 Q. But when you say -- in the early part 5 now, so you and I can have a good frame of
6 of one 's employment, though, there's a -- 6 reference -- I know there's been a lot of
7 A. You can look anywhere from six months 7 changes since the hurricane. So -- and because
8 to a year. 8 we're interested in things that occurred
9 Q. Okay. All right. So when you came 9 before.
10 back, did you have to go through another series 10 A. Correct.
11 of training or did some of the other training 11 Q. Obviously, the questions I'm asking
12 that you got before you left count? 12 you would be about before Katrina.
13 A. Before I left count. 13 A. Correct.
14 Q. Okay. 14 Q. That's number one. And you have,
15 A. Because I had my year of training in 15 obviously, from 1983 to 2005, had a lot of
16 already. 16 experience in the field.
17 Q. All right. Now, did your training 17 A. Okay. Yes.
18 include familiarizing you with engineering 18 Q. All right. So during that time, from
19 manuals published by the Corps as it related to 19 '83 to '05, have you learned of the existence
20 civil engineering issues generally? 20 of engineering manuals?
21 A. I mean, we knew we had engineering 21 A. Oh, yes. They're on our website.
22 manuals out there. We read some of the manuals 22 Q. All right. Now, how do you know
23 and some of the regulations. I'm not sure if I 23 whether or not there is a particular
24 knew all of the regulations and all the manuals 24 engineering manual that you may reference to
25 back at that time. 25 assist you on any particular issue?
Page 21 Page 23
1 Q. No, I didn't mean to suggest that. I 1 A. I mean, sometime -- at that time your
2 guess what I was trying to understand is -- 2 supervisor would tell you of the manuals, and
3 let's start with first. I'm sure somebody had 3 also you have a website you can look up and
4 to tell you they existed, they were there. 4 look for the titles. If you're looking for a
5 A. Right. 5 certain topic, design of levees, you can look
6 Q. They were a resource. Right? 6 up on the website and find that EM.
7 A. Sure. 7 Q. I see. Okay. All right. So the
8 Q. Okay. And the next question would be, 8 truth of it is, you'd have to do some research
9 well, what resources are available? Was that 9 if your supervisor or your superior didn't give
10 part of your training? In the form of 10 you a hint as to what might be out there. Is
11 engineering manuals. 11 that fair?
12 A. Okay. We're talking about 25 years 12 A. I mean, some research. I mean, we
13 ago, 30 years ago almost now. It's hard to 13 have these manuals in our office, hard copies.
14 remember that far back. 14 And we are given, sometimes, you know,
15 Q. Okay. 15 guidance, here's a hard copy. Some people --
16 A. But I mean, they most likely told me 16 at one time we had a number of copies. Did
17 what manual is out there, what manual I need at 17 everybody have copy in the office? I'm not
18 that time as far as if I was in the 18 sure about that.
19 geotechnical field, or if I was in the 19 Q. All right.
20 structural field what manuals they were using 20 A. But we have like a reference -- back
21 or regulations. 21 then like a reference cabinet with EMs in it.
22 Q. Okay. Well, we are talking about a 22 Q. Sure. Well, let's talk about the
23 long period of time, and I know that things 23 field. And this is a general field now,
24 have changed, you know, from 1983 until now. 24 geotechnical engineering. All right?
25 But I also don't want to -- obviously, we're 25 A. Okay.
Page 22 Page 24
6 (Pages 21 to 24)
PINNER, RICHARD B.
7/17/2008
1 Q. Are there a large number of 1 conversation with Jerry that there were general
2 engineering manuals that would relate to 2 guidelines within this New Orleans District
3 geotechnical engineering issues? 3 office that related to what one had to do in
4 A. I would say five to ten. 4 the engineering department if one was put on
5 Q. Five to ten. 5 notice of the fact that there was going to be
6 A. Off the top of my head. 6 excavations in or around a flood protection
7 Q. It's not hundred or two hundred or 7 structure. Okay?
8 fifty, even. 8 Do you know whether or not that's
9 A. No. 9 true?
10 Q. Okay. And if I would say, Richard, 10 A. Yes.
11 I'd like to go and take a look and see, you 11 Q. Okay. Is that something that's
12 know, what's out there in the area of 12 written down or is that something that's just
13 geotechnical engineering, what help would you 13 generally known by the folks in the
14 give me in conducting the search? What words 14 geotechnical section?
15 would I use, for example, if I was going to go 15 A. It's known by everybody in
16 on the -- 16 engineering, sure.
17 A. I'd look for different things; levees, 17 Q. In the whole department, up and down.
18 construction of levees, design of levees, 18 A. I mean, it's really levee board puts
19 seepage, um -- retaining walls, deep 19 out permits, and then it goes through
20 foundations, shallow foundations. All those 20 operations division. They submit those -- any
21 manuals are out there. 21 activities within a certain distance of flood
22 Q. What about dams; would you look at 22 protection to engineering division.
23 dams? 23 Q. Okay. Slow down.
24 A. You can look at dams, also. There is 24 A. Okay.
25 also a manual out there on dams. 25 Q. I'm going to get there. But I
Page 25 Page 27
1 Q. So the dams engineering manuals would 1 unfortunately -- you know, I have to take it
2 be relevant to levees to some degree. 2 slow.
3 A. Well, we have two different manuals, 3 A. Okay.
4 one or levees and one for dams. 4 Q. That's just me.
5 Q. But my question is very specific. The 5 A. Okay.
6 engineering manual that relates to dams. Okay? 6 Q. All right. So we talked about the
7 That one. Does that have information in it 7 levee board, but let's just talk about
8 that would be relevant to levees? 8 engineering division first. Geotech. In terms
9 A. It might address similar failure 9 of what it is that I believe you said everybody
10 modes, yes. 10 knows.
11 Q. Okay. Now, you know Jerry Colletti? 11 A. That might be -- okay.
12 A. Yes. 12 Q. I know. That's why I want to be
13 Q. You work with Jerry. 13 careful.
14 A. I don't work with Jerry. I guess you 14 A. Sure.
15 want to say I work for the Corps of Engineers. 15 Q. I'm not trying to put words in your
16 I don't work under Jerry. 16 mouth.
17 Q. I said work with. 17 MR. STONE:
18 A. With? 18 You also need to let him finish
19 Q. What did I say? Did I say something 19 his sentences.
20 wrong? 20 MR. BRUNO:
21 A. Okay. Work with Jerry? Yes. I don't 21 I was letting him finish his
22 work for Jerry. 22 sentences, Richard.
23 Q. I didn't mean to suggest that. I know 23 MR. STONE:
24 how that is, man. All right. 24 You were not.
25 Well, I understood from my 25 MR. BRUNO:
Page 26 Page 28
7 (Pages 25 to 28)
PINNER, RICHARD B.
7/17/2008
1 No. Richard, don't do that to me 1 EXAMINATION BY MR. BRUNO:

2 today. I don't need your aggravation. 2 Q. See what I mean? It's sensitive.
3 MR. STONE: 3 A. I'm going to answer. Anything, like
4 It's not aggravating. You need 4 you said, for hurricane protection projects,
5 to let the witness finish his 5 operations would notify us if they're going to
6 sentences. 6 have any activity within 300 feet of a
7 MR. BRUNO: 7 hurricane protection project. And if it's a
8 I have always been courteous to 8 river levee project that distance is 1500 feet.
9 the witnesses, I always will be 9 But operations division notifies us on those
10 courteous to the witnesses, and have 10 activities.
11 let the witness finish answers. So 11 Q. Now, Richard, you said operations.
12 don't start with me because I'm not 12 MR. STONE:
13 going to put up with it, Richard. 13 I'd ask that you refer to the
14 Okay? 14 witness as Mr. Pinner.
15 MR. STONE: 15 MR. BRUNO:
16 I'm going to start every time you 16 That's fine. I'll be glad to.
17 do it. 17 EXAMINATION BY MR. BRUNO:
18 MR. TREEBY: 18 Q. Mr. Pinner, sorry. You said the
19 Object. Interrupting the 19 operations department.
20 witness. 20 A. Correct.
21 MR. BRUNO: 21 Q. But as I understand the way this
22 And I object to you interrupting 22 office is organized, the project department
23 me. 23 would be in charge of new works. Right?
24 EXAMINATION BY MR. BRUNO: 24 A. Yep.
25 Q. Now, Richard, let's see if we can get 25 Q. You have to say yes. I'm sorry.
Page 29 Page 31
1 back on plane here. I certainly want to keep 1 A. Yes. New works.

2 this thing civil, even though when I touch 2 Q. New works. Or even things like
3 sensitive areas they get a little nervous over 3 demolition, that would be something within the
4 there. But that's all right. They do that. 4 purview of the projects department; right?
5 A. It doesn't bother me. 5 A. I guess so, yes.
6 Q. And this is a sensitive area. So I'll 6 Q. Okay. As I understand the operations
7 just tell you so that they won't have to use an 7 department 's role, they are there to maintain
8 objection to broadcast it to you. 8 projects that are finished. Is that correct?
9 MR. STONE: 9 A. Correct.
10 Object to all the commentary. 10 Q. Okay. Now, and the reason I'm
11 It's a waste of time. 11 obviously setting this all up is because I want
12 MR. BRUNO: 12 to -- I'm just thinking to myself if somebody
13 Whatever. Good. 13 going to go dig a hole, there's the possibility
14 EXAMINATION BY MR. BRUNO: 14 that it may be the project department as well
15 Q. Now, getting back to -- let's talk 15 as the operations department.
16 about what you know, all right, so we don't get 16 A. Possibility, yes.
17 into trouble about what other folks may know. 17 Q. So would you expect the projects
18 A. Okay. 18 department to notify you, as well, if they were
19 Q. Let's do it that way. Now, so, what 19 going to do any excavations?
20 do you know about what needs to be done when 20 A. I'm not sure if they would notify me
21 someone plans to do an excavation in or around 21 directly. They would maybe notify engineering
22 a flood protection project? 22 division.
23 A. Okay. 23 Q. Okay. Well, that was one of the
24 MR. STONE: 24 questions I had. When you say notify us, I
25 Objection. Overly broad. 25 wanted to clarify that for the record. You
Page 30 Page 32
8 (Pages 29 to 32)
PINNER, RICHARD B.
7/17/2008
1 meant that the operations division would notify 1 A. Correct.

2 the engineering department. 2 Q. Okay. All right. I understand now.
3 A. Correct. 3 Now, what is your understanding of the
4 Q. Okay. And they know that if they're 4 purpose for this notification? And again we're
5 going to notify us, the engineering department, 5 talking in the context of excavations within
6 to whom would the notification go? 6 300 feet of a flood control project. Okay?
7 A. I think almost every branch within 7 We're not talking about the river here.
8 engineering department, at least civil branch 8 A. Okay.
9 and geotech, and possibility structures branch. 9 Q. So I can leave that out of the
10 Q. All right. So let's say we're in the 10 discussion.
11 age of E-mail. I know that wasn't true, 11 A. We will look to see what impact it
12 depending upon what point in time you want to 12 might have, or somebody would determine the
13 pick. But if the operations department was 13 impact or assessment of that excavation on that
14 going to notify, am I understanding you to tell 14 flood protection system.
15 me on the record that the E-mail would include 15 Q. All right. Now, I know impact has a
16 as a person copied the head of the engineering 16 meaning to you, but because we have this record
17 department as well as the head of the 17 would you please explain what impact means in
18 geotechnical section? 18 the context of engineering?
19 A. To me, it would be a memo from 19 A. Does it affect the integrity of that
20 operation division to engineering division. 20 flood protection? Does it affect the stability
21 Q. Okay. 21 of that levee system?
22 A. And engineering division will route it 22 Q. Okay. Integrity and stability, right?
23 through engineering division. 23 A. Correct.
24 Q. All right. So as regards this 24 Q. All right. Now, how might an
25 business of excavations, it would go from the 25 excavation affect the integrity of a flood
Page 33 Page 35
1 top of the division making the notification, 1 control structure?

2 whether it be the projects department or the 2 MR. STONE:
3 operations department, to the top of the 3 Objection. Overly broad.
4 engineering department. Right? 4 A. I still answer?
5 A. Yep. 5 EXAMINATION BY MR. BRUNO:
6 Q. Now, once it got to the top of the 6 Q. Yes.
7 engineering department, and again we're talking 7 MR. STONE:
8 about excavations and flood control projects, 8 You want examples? Is that what
9 where would the notification come down to? 9 you're asking for?
10 A. I'm not sure I understand the 10 MR. BRUNO:
11 question. 11 No. I don't. I want the witness
12 Q. Well, I mean, would the chief of the 12 to answer the question. That's what I
13 engineering department just stop or would he 13 want.
14 give it to somebody in his department? 14 EXAMINATION BY MR. BRUNO:
15 A. He would send it -- route it through 15 Q. You and I made a pact. If you don't
16 the branch chiefs of each department; civil 16 understand the question or whatever, you tell
17 branch, structures branch and maybe 17 me. But if you can answer the question, please
18 geotechnical branch. 18 do.
19 Q. Oh, I see. Okay. So he'd notify all 19 A. I mean, if somebody comes along and
20 three. 20 takes the whole protected side berm away from
21 A. Right. And it routes, you know, 21 my levee, my stability berm that's holding up
22 through. 22 that levee, then it would impact the integrity
23 Q. And the chief of each of these 23 of that levee.
24 branches would know what to do with the 24 Q. Okay. All right. If someone were
25 notification. 25 digging a hole 25 feet deep within this
Page 34 Page 36
9 (Pages 33 to 36)
PINNER, RICHARD B.
7/17/2008
1 300 feet distance that you've described for us 1 need to look at. Local stability, global
2 on the record, how might a hole like that 2 stability, and seepage.
3 and/or the way it was backfilled impact the 3 EXAMINATION BY MR. BRUNO:
4 integrity of a flood control structure? 4 Q. All right. Those are the three that
5 MR. STONE: 5 we've heard before; local, global and seepage.
6 Object to the hypothetical. 6 Does that pretty much, at least
7 MR. BRUNO: 7 generally, cover the three things that you
8 Why? 8 would do as a component part of this
9 A. Case-by-case foundation conditions. I 9 engineering assessment?
10 can't really answer that question without 10 A. Yeah. There may be other items, too.
11 knowing the foundation conditions. 11 Q. Sure.
12 EXAMINATION BY MR. BRUNO: 12 A. Again, based on a site-by-site
13 Q. No, I'm not saying -- 13 condition.
14 A. Hypothetical or -- 14 Q. All right. Now, how might -- how does
15 Q. No, I'm saying what would you do to 15 seepage, if it's a problem, affect the
16 find out whether or not -- 16 integrity of a flood control structure?
17 A. I would look at the foundation 17 A. I mean, if you have a sand strata, you
18 conditions. 18 could have an exit gradient. If it moves
19 Q. Okay. 19 material, it could leak, seep water, it does
20 A. And -- 20 impact. But also you can have uplift
21 Q. Why would you look at foundation 21 pressures. So those two items, you have to
22 conditions? 22 make sure that you don't have what we call an
23 A. To see what impact -- because most of 23 exit gradient, not an adequate factor of
24 my structures is supported by foundation. The 24 safety.
25 foundation source. So I had to find out if it 25 Q. Now, do you do that analysis under the
Page 37 Page 39
1 affects the stability of that structure with 1 existing condition or do you consider the
2 that excavation. And an excavation 300 feet 2 possibility that if it's on the water side of
3 away might have no impact. 3 the flood protection structure there may be
4 Q. Of course. 4 high water levels that may occur either with
5 A. An excavation 20 feet away might have 5 high and low tide or, for example, hurricanes,
6 no impact. 6 et cetera? Does that -- that's part of the
7 Q. Sure. 7 analysis, isn't it?
8 A. So we have to look at what impact it 8 A. Correct.
9 has on that structure. 9 Q. All right. Because obviously the
10 Q. All right. Now, so how do you -- as 10 higher the water the higher the pressure.
11 an engineer, how do you figure out whether it 11 A. Right.
12 does our does not have an impact? In other 12 Q. Is that true?
13 words, what is the mechanics of the evaluation 13 A. Yeah. I wouldn't say that true,
14 process; what do you do? You're told there's a 14 exactly. You had to have a seepage entrance
15 hole. You're told it's 25 feet deep. You're 15 first.
16 told it's, I don't know, 20 by 20. Let's use 16 Q. Right.
17 that as the for example. 17 A. I mean, higher the pressure, I'm not
18 What's the process that you go 18 sure -- again, I'm not sure what you're talking
19 through? 19 about.
20 MR. STONE: 20 Q. Well, generally speaking, if you have
21 Object to the hypothetical. 21 a hole into which water can go, if it's got
22 A. You would do an engineering 22 permeable material in it, if you have high
23 assessment. You would look at the stability of 23 water you're going to have a higher pressure at
24 that excavation, and you would look at most 24 the lower strata than you would if you had no
25 likely any other engineering analysis you might 25 water.
Page 38 Page 40
10 (Pages 37 to 40)
PINNER, RICHARD B.
7/17/2008
1 A. In a certain stratum, yes. 1 analysis already done outside the stability

2 Q. Okay. Do you know if there are 2 control line, and that's our assessment.
3 engineering manuals which address the business 3 (Off the record.)
4 of this engineering assessment that you've just 4 A. We look at -- some of our assessment
5 described for us? 5 might be a visual assessment because we already
6 A. Yes. 6 have additional data that tells us.
7 Q. Okay. Do you know them by name or by 7 EXAMINATION BY MR. BRUNO:
8 number? 8 Q. All right. But the fact is, you
9 A. Um -- I would say design and 9 still, even if it's only visual, have to do an
10 construction of levees. Any other manuals out 10 assessment. Right?
11 there mostly likely cover seepage and might be 11 A. Sure. Yep.
12 an appendix of the engineering construction 12 Q. Okay. Now, you described for us a few
13 manual. 13 moments ago the business of permits. Remember
14 Q. The dam EM might cover it? It talks 14 that? It's been a little while.
15 about seepage, doesn't it? 15 A. Okay.
16 A. Most likely. But we would look at 16 Q. Okay. And I think you may have
17 levees. 17 mentioned, you know -- sometimes what you hear
18 Q. Levees first. All right. Okay. All 18 and what's in the back of your brain get
19 right. 19 confused, but I thought you say that there
20 Now, let me ask you this: Is this 20 needs to be a permit from the levee board.
21 engineering assessment that you've described, 21 Did you say that?
22 is this something that is mandatory or is that 22 A. It is my understanding, and I think
23 something that -- and I'm not talking about the 23 the final permit might be from the levee board,
24 determination of whether or not there's a 24 yes.
25 problem, I'm talking about the assessment. 25 Q. Okay. All right. Tell me then what
Page 41 Page 43
1 Is it mandatory that the engineering 1 you know, based upon your understanding --
2 department do an assessment when it knows that 2 A. Okay.
3 there's going to be an excavation within 300 3 Q. -- as to how this levee board is
4 feet of a flood protection structure? 4 involved. And let me be very specific here so
5 MR. STONE: 5 that we don't have to be jumping all over the
6 Objection. 6 place. We're talking about the IHNC.
7 A. Someone should do. I mean -- 7 A. Okay.
8 EXAMINATION BY MR. BRUNO: 8 Q. We're talking about the east bank of
9 Q. It's mandatory; right? 9 the IHNC --
10 A. We will look at anything within 10 A. Okay. All right.
11 300 feet. 11 Q. -- between Florida and Claiborne, the
12 Q. We will. 12 Lower Ninth Ward --
13 A. We will -- like I say, the applicant 13 A. All right.
14 or somebody else will maybe do that assessment. 14 Q. -- right where the two breaks were.
15 We will review that assessment. 15 Okay?
16 Q. All right. Now, can you think of an 16 A. (Nods affirmatively.)
17 occasion where you would say that we are not -- 17 Q. Okay. Now, and we are talking about
18 we're not going to do the assessment, period, 18 work that's done by the Washington Group
19 we don't have to do it, it's okay? 19 International to demolish and remediate that
20 A. We might look at something from a 20 piece of ground. And I think it's referred to
21 visual inspection. I mean, somebody might come 21 as the East Bank Industrial Area.
22 in and say, I'm digging a hole 300 feet away 22 Are you familiar with that area?
23 from your structure five feet deep. We look at 23 A. Yes.
24 the things, look at it, it's not going to have 24 Q. Okay. All right. Now, first
25 an impact. We have maybe slope stability 25 question: Do you know if there's a floodwall
Page 42 Page 44
11 (Pages 41 to 44)
PINNER, RICHARD B.
7/17/2008
1 there? 1 that I just talked about. And we know,

2 A. Yes. 2 Mr. Pinner, sometimes the planning department
3 Q. Okay. And do you know whose floodwall 3 doesn't talk to the engineering department.
4 it is? 4 Right? I mean, they're not required to call
5 A. I assume it's Orleans Levee Board's. 5 you every day, are they?
6 Q. Okay. All right. Now, so the 6 A. Not every day.
7 question is, you're now advised -- you, Richard 7 Q. No. Okay. So the question I need to
8 Pinner is advised -- through your chief, that 8 know now is, what is your understanding of what
9 there's going to be holes dug in that area. 9 the project and planning department is supposed
10 What I'd like to know first is, based 10 to do when they know that their project will
11 upon your own personal knowledge what is your 11 contemplate the digging of holes within 300
12 understanding of how the levee board is 12 feet of a flood protection structure?
13 involved or not involved in that process? 13 A. I don't work in planning so I can't
14 A. That would be a tough question. Like 14 answer the question.
15 I said -- my personal knowledge, like I say, 15 Q. Okay. Fair enough. There is a high
16 normally I go through operations. I don't have 16 degree of importance placed upon this business
17 direct contact with the levee board. 17 of this engineering assessment as it relates to
18 Q. I know. But I thought you said 18 these holes; isn't that true?
19 something about a permit. 19 MR. STONE:
20 A. My understanding is -- 20 Objection.
21 Q. That's all I want is your 21 A. I put -- you know, any holes, you
22 understanding. 22 know, I would look at any excavation.
23 A. Right. My understanding is we go back 23 EXAMINATION BY MR. BRUNO:
24 to operations with our recommendation or 24 Q. Sure. And the reason for that is that
25 comments, whatever, and I think operations will 25 as a member of the New Orleans Division of the
Page 45 Page 47
1 forward our thing on to the levee board, and I 1 United States Army Corps of Engineers, you
2 think the levee board had a final permit. 2 don't want to see anybody damage your flood
3 Q. Okay. What I'm trying to figure out 3 protection structures. Isn't that true?
4 is how does the Corps find out about the fact 4 A. Yes.
5 that somebody has made a request for a permit 5 Q. Okay. And as a civil engineer within
6 from the levee board? I mean, I'm just 6 the United States Army Corps of Engineers,
7 presuming that -- 7 because of your expertise in civil engineering
8 A. Right. I understand. 8 and in particular geotechnical engineering, you
9 Q. -- you know, in order for you guys to 9 are aware of the potential problems that may be
10 get involved somebody's got to call you on the 10 caused by excavating within 300 feet of a flood
11 phone or do something. 11 control structure. Isn't that true?
12 A. Again, I guess I would say reference 12 A. Yes.
13 Jerry Colletti. He would be the best person to 13 Q. All right. Now, so would you agree
14 answer that question. 14 with me that it's important, then, for the
15 Q. Okay. Fair enough. Now, you've told 15 other divisions of this office, this New
16 me the -- once the engineering department is 16 Orleans District office, to know -- to tell you
17 put on notice of the fact that there is the 17 when they encounter excavations or the intent
18 intent the dig a hole that you are required to 18 to excavate within 300 feet of a flood control
19 do this engineering assessment. Right? You 19 structure, to tell you so that you can conduct
20 told me that. 20 the evaluation that you know is mandatory to
21 A. (Nods affirmatively.) 21 conduct.
22 Q. So, now let's talk about -- and again, 22 MR. STONE:
23 you may not know this, but now you're in the 23 Objection.
24 planning department. Or you're in the projects 24 A. I mean, I think anything within
25 department and you're in charge of this project 25 300 feet, I mean, somebody should do an
Page 46 Page 48
12 (Pages 45 to 48)
PINNER, RICHARD B.
7/17/2008
1 assessment. I mean, it might have no impact on 1 A. Okay.

2 that structure but -- and I think that 300 feet 2 Q. -- which is an indication of the folks
3 is very broad. Okay? 3 that they have told me they're going to call to
4 EXAMINATION BY MR. BRUNO: 4 testify at trial.
5 Q. Well, I'm with you, Mr. Pinner, but 5 A. Okay.
6 that's not my question. 6 Q. And so obviously for me to prepare I'm
7 A. Okay. Sure. 7 talking to the folks on that list. Your name
8 Q. I'm trying to -- 8 is on the list.
9 A. Right. I'm listening. 9 A. Okay.
10 Q. -- to understand, if it's something 10 Q. Did you know that?
11 that's important -- How about this? It seems 11 A. I might have.
12 to me that somebody needs to tell the project 12 Q. Okay. It's not mandatory, and it's
13 guys, hey, fellas, when you have a project 13 not a test question and it's not meant to
14 that's within 300 feet of a flood control 14 embarrass. Okay? I always like to ask that
15 structure you need to do X. 15 question because of the joy of what happens
16 A. Okay. 16 when you get selected.
17 Q. That's what I'm trying to figure out. 17 So I guess then you really don't know.
18 A. Okay. 18 MR. STONE:
19 Q. Has somebody told the project and 19 Joe, he's not going to like you
20 planning guys to be aware of this issue? 20 any better. It's not going to help.
21 MR. STONE: 21 MR. BRUNO:
22 Objection. 22 Richard, I'm sorry, are you
23 A. I can't ask, you know, again what they 23 implying here some nefarious, evil
24 do in planning. 24 intent on my part?
25 EXAMINATION BY MR. BRUNO: 25 MR. STONE:
Page 49 Page 51
1 Q. All right. Would you say that the 1 No, no, no. Just joking with
2 project and planning department should know of 2 you.
3 the need to do an evaluation where their 3 EXAMINATION BY MR. BRUNO:
4 project calls for excavations within 300 feet 4 Q. Where was I? So I guess I'm just
5 of a flood control structure? 5 getting to the point. So you don't know what
6 A. Um -- based on my knowledge, I would 6 they're going to ask you to testify about at
7 say yes. 7 trial, right?
8 Q. And would the answer be the same with 8 A. No.
9 regard to the guys in the operations 9 Q. But I'm guessing it's got to be
10 department? 10 something to do with geotechnical engineering.
11 A. You know, they deal with permits all 11 Is that possible?
12 the time. 12 A. I assume so, yes.
13 Q. The answer is yes. 13 Q. All right. I mean, you consider
14 A. Yes. 14 yourself an expert in geotechnical engineering,
15 Q. When did you become the chief of the 15 don't you?
16 geotechnical? 16 A. Yes. Not in all fields of
17 A. March '07. 17 geotechnical engineering, but yes.
18 Q. March '07. By the way, do you know 18 Q. Okay. Would you say that as it
19 why you have been selected for this wonderful 19 regards seepage issues that you are an expert
20 opportunity today? 20 in that area?
21 A. Nope. 21 A. I understand seepage issues.
22 Q. All right. The reason why you're 22 Q. All right. Have you done any
23 here, it's not my fault, but the lawyers for 23 analysis, yourself, of excavations that were
24 the government have filed a witness list with 24 done by the Washington Group International over
25 the court -- 25 there on the -- in the East Bank Industrial
Page 50 Page 52
13 (Pages 49 to 52)
PINNER, RICHARD B.
7/17/2008
1 Area in connection with the what has been 1 make sure that the local sponsors are
2 referred to Task Order 26? 2 maintaining the levees.
3 A. Not that I recall. 3 Q. Got you. So other than that year and
4 Q. And that's even up until today. 4 a half stint doing the periodic inspections,
5 A. Correct. 5 basically from '84 to 2004 you are employed as
6 Q. All right. All right. Let me just 6 a geotechnical engineer.
7 finish with, you know, your tenure here. Okay? 7 A. Right. I might have changed titles
8 A. Okay. 8 slightly to a team leader, technical manager in
9 Q. You're bouncing around, and I think 9 that group. Or team leader.
10 we're still in like '84. You're 10 Q. Sure. And then you are -- but you're
11 geotechnical -- you're in the geotechnical 11 not in any particular section during that
12 section. Where do you go next? 12 period of time, right?
13 A. Where did I go next? 13 A. Structural foundations section.
14 Q. Yeah. 14 Q. Oh. I'm sorry. I know that in '04
15 A. I mean, I stayed in geotech from '84, 15 you became the chief.
16 I guess, until approximately '96. I wasn't in 16 A. Correct.
17 geotech branch the whole time. Like I said, I 17 Q. But you were in the structural
18 did do other duties as far as -- 18 foundations section from '84 until '04?
19 Q. Sure. Did you have the same title 19 A. Correct.
20 from '84 to '96? 20 Q. Okay. The entire time.
21 A. No. 21 A. Pretty much.
22 Q. All right. Well, just give me the -- 22 Q. So you're dealing with the soils from
23 maybe just give me the job titles. Maybe that 23 '84 to 2004.
24 will help us get through this. 24 A. Okay. Yes.
25 A. I guess '84 through I would say about 25 Q. All right. So if someone had asked
Page 53 Page 55
1 2000 and -- right before the hurricane, I guess 1 for an evaluation of holes at this east bank
2 about 2004, I was in geotechnical engineering. 2 industrial site between 1999 and 2005, that
3 And in about 2004 I became section chief. 3 would have come to the structural foundations
4 Q. Wait. 4 section, is that right?
5 A. Section chief of the structural 5 A. Correct.
6 foundations section. 6 Q. Okay. And do you recall ever having
7 Q. Oh. Okay. So from '84 -- because you 7 received any information about the fact that
8 had mentioned '96, that's where I got thrown a 8 anybody was digging holes in the East Bank
9 little bit. Was '96 -- 9 Industrial Area from 1999 to 2005?
10 A. '96 I went up in general engineering 10 A. I couldn't recall right at this
11 branch to more or less lead the periodic 11 moment.
12 inspection group. 12 Q. That's fine.
13 Q. How long did you do that? 13 A. But, you know --
14 A. About a year and a half. 14 Q. But it's possible?
15 Q. The periodic inspection group, what 15 A. True.
16 structures does that group inspect on a 16 Q. But as you sit here -- in fairness to
17 periodic basis? 17 you, based upon your cold memory as you're
18 A. Mainly locks and bridges. 18 sitting in the room here, you don't remember
19 Q. That's what I thought. Okay. We know 19 it. But it's possible that somebody could have
20 that there are inspections of some frequency of 20 made a request.
21 the levees. Did you ever participate in that? 21 A. Like I said, could have made a request
22 A. I did one or two O&M inspections. 22 and I most likely took a ride out there once.
23 Q. Right. That's the ride they take in 23 Q. But you have no recollection,
24 the car? 24 yourself, as you sit here today.
25 A. It's the operation and maintenance, to 25 A. Correct.
Page 54 Page 56
14 (Pages 53 to 56)
PINNER, RICHARD B.
7/17/2008
1 Q. Okay. 1 MR. BRUNO:

2 (Brief recess.) 2 No, no, no, no. I'm hearing you,
3 EXAMINATION BY MR. BRUNO: 3 and let's clarify it.
4 Q. All right. Mr. Pinner, with regard 4 EXAMINATION BY MR. BRUNO:
5 once again to the engineering assessment, that 5 Q. So Mr. Stone suggests that there is --
6 in fact has to be an assessment by engineers, 6 there are two possible situations. In the
7 correct? 7 context of I'm just going to say digging holes
8 A. I believe so, yes. 8 within 300 feet of the flood protection
9 Q. And it's got to be conducted by the 9 structure --
10 engineering department. Somebody in that 10 MR. STONE:
11 department. 11 No, you're talking about
12 A. I would say a civil engineer. An 12 engineering assessments. That's all
13 engineer. 13 I'm talking about here.
14 Q. Okay. 14 MR. BRUNO:
15 MR. STONE: 15 I know, but I've got to give it
16 There's a problem with that 16 context, Richard.
17 question because you say assessment, 17 MR. STONE:
18 and there are two types of assessments 18 However you want to do it.
19 done here that y'all have talked about 19 EXAMINATION BY MR. BRUNO:
20 this morning, one assessment by the 20 Q. There's a billion engineering
21 Corps of work done by someone else, 21 assessments that can be done. I want to talk
22 and an assessment by the Corps of work 22 only about the engineering assessments that
23 done by the Corps. 23 relates to holes within 300 feet of a flood
24 MR. BRUNO: 24 control structure. Okay? That's where we are.
25 Unh-unh. 25 Okay?
Page 57 Page 59
1 MR. STONE: 1 I mean, you do engineering assessments

2 So if someone else designed 2 of a variety of things, don't you?
3 something and the Corps assessed it, I 3 A. Yes, sir.
4 don't know if that makes a difference 4 Q. Of course. Whether the building is
5 to you with your question. That's 5 going to fall down, whether the doors open and
6 fine. 6 close, that's all engineering assessment;
7 MR. BRUNO: 7 right?
8 No, no. I don't know where that 8 A. Sure.
9 came from. There is nothing in this 9 Q. All right. Now, we're talking about
10 record about two different kinds of 10 the engineering assessment that we've talked
11 assessments. And since now you've 11 about this morning, holes within 300 feet of a
12 told the witness your thought process, 12 flood control structure.
13 I guess now we have to go through it. 13 Now, Mr. Stone is suggesting that
14 EXAMINATION BY MR. BRUNO: 14 there are two different actors that may be in
15 Q. I have not broken it down as 15 play; it may be that the Corps itself is doing
16 between -- but that's fine. Richard has said 16 the work, as opposed to the project engineering
17 this for the record and now it's on the record. 17 department subcontracting that work to somebody
18 MR. STONE: 18 else.
19 All I'm saying is you asked a 19 MR. BRUNO:
20 question about an assessment here, and 20 Is that what you're suggesting?
21 I don't think that it's a clear 21 MR. STONE:
22 question, and his answer may not be 22 No, it wasn't. I was just
23 that useful to us on this record. 23 talking about assessments of the
24 That's all I'm saying. I'm not trying 24 activity. I've just confused you.
25 to give you a hard time. 25 Just move on and you'll be okay. But
Page 58 Page 60
15 (Pages 57 to 60)
PINNER, RICHARD B.
7/17/2008
1 if you want to ask him anything about 1 got to do it.

2 assessing something like that, I think 2 A. Yes.
3 you ought to determine who it is that 3 Q. Now, but there is the possibility that
4 is being assessed. For example -- 4 some third party may have done the assessment
5 your cofferdams, for example. Someone 5 themselves and then asked you to evaluate their
6 else designed the cofferdams, right? 6 assessment, right?
7 You know that. So does the Corps 7 A. Possibility. Yes.
8 assess those cofferdams, for example? 8 Q. In other words, your department has
9 And the engineering requirements for 9 the capacity to evaluate somebody else's
10 that. And I think that's where your 10 assessment, if asked.
11 question was confused. And I'm not 11 A. If asked.
12 trying to tell -- 12 Q. Okay. And you can do your own
13 MR. BRUNO: 13 assessment. Right?
14 I'm perfectly willing to explore 14 A. Right.
15 that area. I frankly am very content 15 Q. All right. Now, here's the question:
16 with the questions and the answers. 16 If somebody presents you with plans, does that
17 But now we have to explore a different 17 satisfy the need for the engineering
18 context. 18 assessment?
19 EXAMINATION BY MR. BRUNO: 19 A. Can you repeat the question?
20 Q. I mean, as I understood our dialogue 20 Q. Okay. Here it is: Again,
21 this morning, we were talking about the fact 21 specifically we're now taking about the east
22 that the Corps of Engineers has an interest in 22 bank industrial site.
23 the integrity of flood control structures. 23 A. Right.
24 Isn't that true? 24 Q. And the Corps is presented with -- and
25 A. Yes. 25 of course the relationship is between the
Page 61 Page 63
1 Q. Okay. And that's why the Corps has in 1 contracting party the Washington Group
2 place a procedure and a policy which mandates 2 International and the project and planning
3 that the Corps conduct an evaluation of 3 department, and the Washington Group presents
4 excavations that are intended to take place 4 to the project planning department a work plan,
5 within 300 feet of a flood control structure. 5 and the work plan says we're going to dig a
6 Correct? 6 hole X by X, Y deep, we're going to backfill it
7 A. We've got guidelines to look at. 7 with A.
8 Q. Right. And those are mandatory 8 I'm not going to give you -- it's not
9 guidelines, right? 9 necessary.
10 A. I'm not sure if I would use the word 10 Now, it is mandatory that the Corps
11 mandatory guidelines. 11 evaluate that work plan to assess whether or
12 Q. Well, you have to do -- once you're 12 not that proposed work is going to impact the
13 told, once you have information that there's 13 integrity of the levee, right?
14 going to be an excavation within 300 feet, you 14 A. I would say we would assess the site,
15 are required to do something. That's what I 15 assess what they plan on doing.
16 mean by mandatory. Isn't that true? 16 Q. Okay. All right. And you may accept
17 A. I mean, we would do an assessment with 17 that person's assessment as being sufficient.
18 anything within 300 feet of a flood protection 18 A. Correct.
19 system. 19 Q. Okay. But the point is, though, you
20 Q. Well, that's my point. You have to do 20 got to do something, you can't just close your
21 it. You can't just say, okay, I'm going to 21 eyes. You've got to -- first of all, if they
22 walk away and not do anything. 22 don't give you the work plan, you got to make
23 A. No. Like I said, an assessment. 23 sure they give you a work plan, and secondly,
24 Q. You got to do an assessment. I mean, 24 you got to look at it and say it looks good,
25 I don't want to play games about that, you've 25 and then you approve it and you've done your
Page 62 Page 64
16 (Pages 61 to 64)
PINNER, RICHARD B.
7/17/2008
1 assessment. Right? 1 that it may be that the proposal may be written

2 A. First, it should go through 2 by a third party or may be written by the
3 construction division. Construction division 3 Corps, but the evaluation of whatever it is
4 should make sure they got their work plans in 4 that's written is the same. Isn't that true?
5 place. 5 A. Repeat the question.
6 Q. Got you. And then insofar as that 6 Q. The engineering assessment --
7 engineering evaluation, the construction 7 A. Okay.
8 division has to give it to the engineering 8 Q. -- of the thing, whether it be
9 department? 9 something the Corps created or some third party
10 A. I mean, they also got engineers, but 10 created, the assessment is the same.
11 in most cases they most likely give it to 11 MR. TREEBY:
12 engineering department. 12 Objection.
13 Q. Okay. For y'all to do that mandatory 13 EXAMINATION BY MR. BRUNO:
14 evaluation, right? 14 Q. Isn't that true?
15 A. And do an assessment -- if that's a 15 A. I guess I look to see what type of
16 design by somebody else, we would look at it. 16 assessment. Are you talking about taking six
17 Q. Okay. Thank you. All right. 17 inches off the ground? I'm not sure it would
18 MR. BRUNO: 18 be that much difference. I'm not sure of the
19 Does that cover that issue? 19 question.
20 MR. STONE: 20 Q. Here's the question: When I say
21 I think it does. Because there's 21 engineering assessment of excavations within
22 more than one type of assessment they 22 300 feet of a flood control project, do you
23 were doing. That was all I was trying 23 know what I'm talking about?
24 to raise here. I wasn't trying to 24 A. Yes.
25 instruct anybody or anything. 25 Q. Okay. And we have all been through
Page 65 Page 67
1 MR. BRUNO: 1 that. You do the local, global and

2 Now you confused me again. I 2 underseepage analysis. That's the assessment.
3 don't know what you mean by more than 3 Now, the assessment that you do with
4 one kind. 4 regard to an excavation that's planned to be
5 MR. STONE: 5 done by the Corps is the same engineering
6 No, I think you've covered it. 6 assessment that you do of an excavation planned
7 I'm just confusing you now. 7 to be done by a subcontractor. Right?
8 MR. BRUNO: 8 A. I guess I would say yes.
9 Well, yeah, because -- 9 Q. Okay. And it comes -- obviously the
10 MR. STONE: 10 assessments has to be based upon some plan or
11 I don't want to do that. I don't 11 specification which describes the work. Right?
12 want to confuse the record either 12 A. Yeah. Okay. Yes. I mean, I'm not
13 here. 13 sure what scope of work. To give an example,
14 EXAMINATION BY MR. BRUNO: 14 assessment is you don't always have to do
15 Q. Do you know of any other kinds of 15 global stability, local stability or seepage.
16 assessment other than an assessment of the 16 Somebody comes along and tells me they digging
17 local, global and underseepage evaluations that 17 a foot of dirt, my assessment could be that's
18 might be done in the engineering assessment 18 not a problem.
19 that we've been talking about all morning long? 19 Q. But you still have done an evaluation
20 A. I guess those are general ones. But 20 of whether to do or not do the underseepage
21 you always have to make -- global stability 21 analysis, the global or the local. You still
22 gives you strut loads, seepage, another term, 22 looked at it.
23 heave, uplift -- those are all, you know, part 23 A. Okay.
24 of those other terms. 24 Q. And that's what's critical; you got to
25 Q. All right. Okay. Now, I recognize 25 look at it.
Page 66 Page 68
17 (Pages 65 to 68)
PINNER, RICHARD B.
7/17/2008
1 A. Okay. 1 MR. TREEBY:

2 Q. Right? Okay. 2 Are these page numbers I-2 and
3 Now, are you familiar with this? 3 I-3?
4 (Indicating.) 4 THE WITNESS:
5 A. IPET? 5 Correct.
6 Q. Yeah. IPET. 6 MR. BRUNO:
7 A. Yeah. 7 They'll be attached so that we
8 Q. Have you read it? 8 can make absolutely certain that the
9 A. Not the whole book. I got a lot of 9 Washington Group knows precisely what
10 volumes out there. 10 we're talking about. Okay?
11 Q. Well, I'm going to make it simple 11 MR. TREEBY:
12 because I only want to know what you have to 12 I'd like to know what the witness
13 say about one paragraph. Just one. And I'm 13 is talking about now, not later.
14 referring to -- 14 MR. BRUNO:
15 MR. BRUNO: 15 What for? You're not asking any
16 Richard, it doesn't have a Bates 16 questions, remember?
17 number on it but it's the IPET report, 17 MR. TREEBY:
18 it's the Executive Summary, it's the 18 Joe, don't be a hard nose.
19 Summary of Findings, and it is The 19 MR. BRUNO:
20 Performance. 20 Whatever, Bill.
21 A. Okay. 21 MR. TREEBY:
22 EXAMINATION BY MR. BRUNO: 22 It's really not hard to give page
23 Q. Just the one paragraph. If you'd take 23 numbers, Joe. Don't be a jerk.
24 just a moment to read it. (Tendering.) 24 MR. BRUNO:
25 MR. TREEBY: 25 The pages numbers are already in.
Page 69 Page 71
1 Can we get a page number or 1 You just didn't write them down.
2 something? 2 MR. STONE:
3 A. Looks like it's I-2. 3 Just tell him when you're
4 MR. BRUNO: 4 finished reading.
5 I already gave the reference. 5 A. All right.
6 A. Yeah. I-3. 6 EXAMINATION BY MR. BRUNO:
7 EXAMINATION BY MR. BRUNO: 7 Q. So I'm particularly interested in the
8 Q. Under the Summary of Findings, the 8 paragraph -- the sentence that I have
9 paragraph has, in big bold words, The 9 highlighted in yellow, which is as follows:
10 Performance, which is what I already said on 10 Ironically, the structures that ultimately
11 the record. 11 breached performed as designed, providing
12 MR. LEVINE: 12 protection until overtopping occurred and then
13 Can we get a copy of the two 13 becoming vulnerable to catastrophic breaching.
14 pages afterwards? 14 Now, as you know, this is referring to
15 MR. BRUNO: 15 all but four of the breaches.
16 We absolutely can do that. And 16 In your opinion, Mr. Pinner, is this
17 that's a good idea. In case others 17 an accurate statement with regard to the
18 don't know what I'm talking about, I 18 breaching of levees in the New Orleans
19 can put it right there so they can see 19 Metropolitan area?
20 it. We will mark it as Pinner 20 MR. STONE:
21 Number 1. 21 Objection. The witness is not
22 (Exhibit Pinner No. 1 was marked for 22 called as an expert here.
23 identification and is attached hereto.) 23 MR. BRUNO:
24 A. They do have page numbers, they're 24 I'm asking for an opinion under
25 just on the wrong side of the page. Okay. 25 the rules.
Page 70 Page 72
18 (Pages 69 to 72)
PINNER, RICHARD B.
7/17/2008
1 A. My opinion, yes. 1 water against which the levee is designed to

2 EXAMINATION BY MR. BRUNO: 2 protect. Isn't that right?
3 Q. This is true. Okay. Fair enough. 3 A. Yeah. That's part of the equation.
4 Good. 4 Q. Okay. And the authorization doesn't
5 Now, let's talk a little bit about, 5 permit you to include in your design armoring
6 then, design. Okay? Oh, I'm sorry. We're 6 of the back side of the levee, right?
7 going to copy these two pages and then mark 7 A. I know I guess from present experience
8 them and attach them as Pinner Number 1. 8 now that some of the projects are designed for
9 Now, Mr. Pinner, do you know anything 9 overwash. And armoring -- right now, we are
10 about the design of the Lake Pontchartrain and 10 armoring -- as a form of armoring is grass.
11 Vicinity Hurricane Protection Levee System? 11 And we are studying that right know. So
12 A. Yes. 12 armoring can be anything, so we do have grass
13 Q. Okay. And in terms of what the 13 on our levees.
14 Congress authorized the Corps to do when it 14 Q. I see.
15 came to levees, do you have some understanding 15 A. So that's big in the Netherlands, you
16 of what the authorization required the Corps to 16 know, proper grass.
17 do? 17 Q. I'm painfully aware of that, I can
18 A. No. 18 assure you, having had to travel over there to
19 Q. Okay. 19 get that research about the grass. But anyway.
20 A. I know that we -- you know, no. I 20 Well, let's get back to the sentence
21 would ask the project manager what Congress 21 in the IPET report. The IPET report, as you
22 authorized us to do. 22 indicated that you had agreed with, says that
23 Q. Okay. All right. If I tell you that 23 the levees performed as designed, meaning that
24 the Congress authorized the Corps to build a 24 they held water until the water got higher than
25 levee to withstand a standard project 25 the levees. The water went over the top of the
Page 73 Page 75
1 hurricane, would you know what a standard 1 levee and washed out the back. Right? That's
2 project hurricane was? 2 generally what occurred in the context of most
3 A. That's -- again, that would be 3 of the breaches that happened after Hurricane
4 hydraulics to answer that question, a standard 4 Katrina.
5 project hurricane. We get the water 5 A. The overtopping breaches, yes.
6 elevations, height of levees, from hydraulics 6 Q. And had there been some kind of
7 and hydraulic engineering. 7 protective barrier there, more than just grass,
8 Q. All right. Now, but you said 8 that wouldn't have washed away, right?
9 something key there. We get a water elevation 9 MR. STONE:
10 from hydraulics. 10 Objection. Calls for
11 A. Correct. 11 speculation.
12 Q. Do I gather from what you've just told 12 EXAMINATION BY MR. BRUNO:
13 me that while you may not know what a standard 13 Q. It may.
14 project hurricane is, you know that the levee 14 A. Right. That's the speculation. Like
15 that you're authorized to build is a levee that 15 I say, without knowing if it was properly
16 has to be a certain height? 16 designed, I don't know.
17 A. Correct. 17 Q. You see, that's where -- I didn't mean
18 Q. Okay. And that height has something 18 to suggest that. And I'm not suggesting
19 to do with the standard project hurricane. 19 anything about improper design.
20 A. Correct. 20 A. All right.
21 Q. But that's other people's expertise. 21 Q. What I'm trying to understand is that
22 A. Right. 22 the degree of armoring that you authorized to
23 Q. But as far as you understand it, the 23 put on the back side of that levee was no more
24 hydraulics department, or the section, does 24 than grass. That's what I'm suggesting.
25 whatever it does to come up with a level of 25 That's all you could do.
Page 74 Page 76
19 (Pages 73 to 76)
PINNER, RICHARD B.
7/17/2008
1 A. I mean, that was part of our design. 1 Q. If you don't know -- no, no. I'm not
2 Q. That's right. But that was also well 2 saying anything. If I don't know you don't
3 within and consistent with the authorization 3 know.
4 from the Congress, right? 4 A. I don't know.
5 A. I don't know the -- what Congress 5 Q. You don't know. All right. Then how
6 authorized. 6 do you know what to build?
7 Q. How about this? You certainly didn't 7 A. Again, I more or less work for project
8 design and build a levee that was less than 8 engineers.
9 what the Congress authorized you to build; 9 Q. Okay.
10 isn't that true? 10 A. They come back and tell me what the
11 A. I guess so, yes. 11 project is. And like I said, I don't get into
12 Q. Okay. I mean, you certainly -- 12 the laws and the regulations or what comes down
13 A. Like I say, I don't know what the law 13 from Congress.
14 passed. 14 Q. Well, do you design levees?
15 Q. I understand that. But even without 15 A. Correct.
16 knowing -- 16 Q. You've designed levees in your career?
17 A. Okay. 17 A. Yes.
18 Q. -- if the Congress said build an X, 18 Q. Okay. All right. Well, when you
19 you didn't build half an X, you built the X. 19 design your levees, what standards do you use?
20 A. I will listen to my project management 20 A. What standard I use?
21 group that tells me that Congress told me to 21 Q. Yes.
22 build an X. 22 A. EMs as far as levees are designed.
23 Q. Okay. And if they told you to build 23 Q. All right. So what you know need to
24 an X, as an engineer you'd build them one, 24 know then is simply -- I'm sorry.
25 right? 25 What do you need to know in order to
Page 77 Page 79
1 A. Okay. 1 design the levee? What information do you need

2 Q. But your department, insofar as its 2 the get from your project guys in order for you
3 designs, can't always do everything it wants to 3 to design your levee?
4 do because you have limitations on your 4 A. They should tell me -- a project guy
5 authority. Right? Is that true or not true? 5 should tell me what alignment we would be
6 I mean, can you build something that can 6 building, they should tell me what elevation we
7 withstand, you know, a nuclear attack? I mean, 7 need to build to, what are the load cases, I
8 are there no limitations on what you can 8 mean, as far as water elevations.
9 design? 9 Q. I'm sorry. The what?
10 A. I'm not sure what the limitation would 10 A. Water elevations. What is the water
11 be. I mean -- 11 elevation? What is the project design grade?
12 Q. I didn't ask you if you knew what the 12 And I will look at, you know, my design based
13 limitation is. I'm simply asking whether or 13 on foundation conditions. I would need soil
14 not limitations exist. 14 borings. I need to know the site specific
15 A. I would say yes. 15 conditions of that foundation to design my
16 Q. Okay. 16 levee.
17 A. I mean, I'm not going to build 17 Q. All right. So number one, the
18 something 30 feet high if I need something at 18 engineering department doesn't choose the
19 twelve. So there's limitations. 19 alignment.
20 Q. Exactly. And the limitations -- those 20 A. No. We assist in choosing the
21 limitations are not something that you dream 21 alignment, I guess.
22 up, that's within the Congressional 22 Q. So if they ask you, you'll give them
23 authorization. They're the ones that create 23 advice.
24 these limitations; right? 24 A. We give them advice and design for
25 A. If you say so. 25 each alignment, if they're looking at multiple
Page 78 Page 80
20 (Pages 77 to 80)
PINNER, RICHARD B.
7/17/2008
1 alignments. 1 Q. Okay.
2 Q. So basically, either you're told this 2 A. And I will maybe also include,
3 is where we're putting this levee or you're 3 depending on what type of structure I'm
4 asked to give input as to where to put the 4 building, if you build it high enough for
5 levee. Right? 5 future settlement and stuff.
6 A. They more or less pick the alignment 6 Q. All right. Now, so with that much
7 for us, this is the alignment, or we design for 7 information you can go design a levee.
8 that alignment. 8 A. Correct.
9 Q. Fair enough. So then you're told by 9 Q. Okay. Now --
10 the project guys, this is the alignment. 10 A. With foundation conditions. Okay.
11 Again, they might ask your advice, but 11 Q. Well, I understand that. Obviously.
12 basically they make the call. Right? 12 The thing can't sink into the ground, can it?
13 A. And some of that alignment might be 13 It's got to hopefully stay where it is.
14 based on geotechnical designs. I mean, on a 14 A. Right.
15 case-by-case basis. If they pick an alignment 15 Q. All right. Now, when you design a
16 where we can't do a proper design, then that 16 levee, do you contemplate the possibility that
17 alignment might change. 17 water can go over the top?
18 Q. Right. Okay. But again, the final 18 A. My understanding from hydraulics, they
19 call is theirs, not yours. 19 do have some type of overwash. Not water
20 A. Not my call. 20 flowing over a levee, but overwash.
21 Q. Okay. Next thing you need to know is 21 Q. All right. What is the difference, if
22 what is the water elevation that you're trying 22 any, between overwash and -- you know, if it's
23 to keep out, right? 23 designed to keep out ten feet of water and you
24 A. That's one of the load cases, yes. 24 got 15 feet of water, is that 15 feet of water
25 Q. And the third thing is -- and I got 25 considered overwash?
Page 81 Page 83
1 confused because I thought you said water 1 A. I would say that's overflow.
2 elevation again. In other words, just another 2 Q. That's overflow. So the two different
3 way to describe the amount, the height of the 3 things are overwash and overflow.
4 water that you're trying to keep out. 4 What's overwash then?
5 MR. TREEBY: 5 A. My understanding?
6 Objection. 6 Q. Please.
7 A. I might have repeated myself, but it's 7 A. It's some type of way water is going
8 just water elevation. Also I need them to tell 8 over but not free flowing over your levee.
9 me project grade, what the elevation of top of 9 Your best person to answer the question again
10 protection is. 10 would be a hydraulic engineer.
11 EXAMINATION BY MR. BRUNO: 11 Q. But overflow is obviously a lot more
12 Q. That's what I missed, the project 12 water coming over the top.
13 grade. 13 A. Yeah.
14 A. Right. And that could be different 14 Q. Okay. All right. But you need to
15 for a floodwall versus a levee. 15 know whether you're designing for overwash or
16 Q. Right. The point is, the project 16 overflow, don't you?
17 grade is how high does this thing have to be 17 A. For my global stability?
18 built. Right? 18 Q. Yeah.
19 A. For that project. 19 A. They tell me what height to build.
20 Q. And the height of that -- of the levee 20 And I will put water up to the top of my
21 is based upon what the other guys tell you is 21 levees.
22 the amount of water that you're trying to keep 22 Q. And so you're not designing for
23 out. 23 overflow, you're designing for overwash.
24 A. The hydraulics would tell me both, the 24 A. That's the height in my designs.
25 water I'm trying to keep out and project grade. 25 Graded them to my project design grade.
Page 82 Page 84
21 (Pages 81 to 84)
PINNER, RICHARD B.
7/17/2008
1 Q. Well, okay. 1 conditions.

2 A. If I want to stop that flow I guess 2 Q. Sure. And that's why you were able to
3 I'll build a higher levee. 3 say and agree with the statement of IPET that
4 Q. But you could also build a levee that 4 the levees performed as designed, even though
5 will stand up if the water goes over the top. 5 they got washed away. Right?
6 A. I design for the project -- the load 6 A. Correct.
7 case I would design for. I design for the load 7 Q. Okay.
8 cage I was given. 8 A. I won't say washed away. They got
9 Q. The low? 9 overtopped, eroded.
10 A. Load case. 10 Q. Well, but --
11 Q. Load case. 11 A. Okay.
12 A. The load case. Project grade. 12 Q. -- they were there before and they're
13 Q. And the load case is a level of water 13 now -- the point is that they -- there was
14 that only considers overwash and not overflow. 14 nothing defective about the design of those
15 A. Correct. Overtopping. 15 levees is all I'm trying to confirm with you.
16 Q. Okay. All right. Now, if somebody 16 Isn't that true?
17 had asked you to design a levee but build into 17 A. Far as I'm concerned, yes.
18 the design -- I'm not saying that they did or 18 Q. Okay. Do you have any personal
19 they should -- 19 information or knowledge about the construction
20 A. All right. 20 of the levees along the MRGO alignment?
21 Q. -- don't read anything into this. But 21 A. I would say yes.
22 if somebody asked you to design a levee that 22 Q. Okay. Well, tell me -- again, I'm
23 could handle overflow -- all right? That might 23 having to ask you this because I don't know
24 include, then, some considerations of some back 24 what they're going to ask you at trial. So
25 side -- I'm sorry -- might include some 25 tell me what you know about those levees.
Page 85 Page 87
1 considerations of some differential types of 1 A. Construction of the levees? I mean,

2 back side armoring, right? 2 they built in accordance to our plans and
3 A. It would require maybe a different 3 specifications. Um -- what's in our plans and
4 type of armoring. 4 specifications, I'm not sure what levee lift
5 Q. Okay. All right. 5 you're talking about, the last levee lift or
6 A. It depends how much duration, flow, 6 future levee lifts? I mean, they built them
7 and everything else. 7 according to the specs and plans.
8 Q. Of course. And all I'm saying is that 8 Q. All right.
9 the mandate that you got -- forget about what 9 A. And that was our standard for many
10 Congress said or didn't say. You were never 10 years.
11 told to design a levee for overflow, you were 11 Q. Now, in terms of -- all right. What
12 told to design a levee for overwash. 12 do you know about the MRGO, its construction,
13 A. Okay. 13 operation or maintenance?
14 Q. Right? 14 A. Very little.
15 A. Correct. 15 Q. Very little. All right. What if
16 Q. Fair enough? Okay. And that's why 16 anything do you know about the potential for a
17 grass is sufficient as back side armoring, 17 channel like the MRGO next to a levee, or earth
18 because grass can handle overwash. Right? 18 berm spoil bank as some have referred to it, to
19 A. Correct. 19 be a potential cause of the sinking of the
20 Q. And but grass can't handle overflow, 20 levee? In other words, because the channel is
21 depending upon the velocities and -- 21 so close to the levee, could that possibly
22 A. The velocity, duration, everything 22 influence the rate of subsidence of the
23 else. It would handle up to a certain point. 23 structure there?
24 Q. And then it would wash away. 24 A. Not unless you have lateral spread.
25 A. It's all again based on other 25 Otherwise, no. Not based on this. We've got
Page 86 Page 88
22 (Pages 85 to 88)
PINNER, RICHARD B.
7/17/2008
1 many levees next to our flood channels. I 1 we need on our flood side of our levees.
2 mean, almost all our levels are next to 2 Q. Can you help me, I'm not an
3 waterways. 3 engineer --
4 Q. Sure. Well, but this one is built on 4 A. Okay.
5 a marsh. 5 Q. -- how would a hydraulic engineer
6 A. Correct. And most of our levees are 6 say -- how would that information be
7 built on marsh. So you do part of your 7 communicated, would you build this to withstand
8 settlement calculations. We include that in 8 a blank? How would you --
9 our settlement calculations. 9 A. They would tell me if we need a rock
10 Q. So you do consider the potential for 10 dike or if we need a wave berm to handle waves
11 the channel to contribute to the speed with 11 all along that levee.
12 which subsidence may occur. 12 Q. Oh. So they wouldn't say -- they
13 A. No, I didn't say that. I mean, I 13 wouldn't describe the waves that they would
14 don't think that channel had anything impacting 14 anticipate in the same way that they gave you
15 of the subsidence of that levee. 15 the water level --
16 Q. Oh, you don't. 16 A. Correct.
17 A. No. 17 Q. -- they would just simply say, look,
18 Q. Have you studied that? 18 you need a rock dike or you need a wave berm or
19 A. No. 19 whatever.
20 Q. No. 20 A. Right. And they give me the geometry
21 A. Nope. 21 of it, you know, and make sure it's stable.
22 Q. Okay. All right. Well, if you 22 Q. All right. What does a rock dike do?
23 haven't studied it -- 23 A. I assume a couple of things. Again,
24 A. I mean, the distance of that levee. I 24 hydraulic can give you more detail, but
25 mean, we add what we call lateral spread, but 25 otherwise it could knock down a wave or just
Page 89 Page 91
1 that channel is 150 feet, 200 feet away from 1 protect erosion protection, especially along
2 the levee center line. 2 the bankline.
3 Q. In all places? 3 Q. So that obviously knocking down a wave
4 A. Off the top of my head. 4 protects the levee. Right?
5 Q. Okay. Fair enough. 5 A. It depends. I mean, if you're putting
6 A. And it might be greater than that in 6 it on the toe of the levee along MRGO it's not
7 some places. 7 going the knock down that wave.
8 Q. Right. And smaller. 8 Q. No, I'm not saying in that scenario.
9 A. And smaller. 9 I'm saying just generally, rock dikes can knock
10 Q. Do trees and other vegetation and 10 down waves, depending upon where you put them.
11 marsh, do they have the ability to protect a 11 MR. TREEBY:
12 levee? Act as a barrier? 12 Objection.
13 A. For hurricane conditions? No. 13 A. A small wave. I mean, if you put it
14 Q. All right. Now, we talked about the 14 at water surface it's not going to knock down a
15 back side of a levee. Now let's talk about the 15 hurricane protection wave, no.
16 front side of a levee. 16 EXAMINATION BY MR. BRUNO:
17 A. Okay. 17 Q. Okay. Fine. So small waves rock
18 Q. Grass acts as a barrier, or armoring, 18 dikes can knock down.
19 if you will, right? 19 A. Okay. I mean, I wouldn't say knock
20 A. Okay. 20 down, but protect the bank.
21 Q. Do you, when you design a levee, 21 Q. Fair enough. Let's talk about wave
22 consider the various types of wave attack that 22 berms. What is a wave berm?
23 may occur in a hurricane situation? 23 A. A wave berm I guess you would have to
24 A. Hydraulics would tell us what the load 24 ask hydraulic to give you more detail. They
25 condition is. Hydraulics would tell you what 25 come along and decide a shape of a berm out
Page 90 Page 92
23 (Pages 89 to 92)
PINNER, RICHARD B.
7/17/2008
1 there that would control against the height of 1 A. I have no idea.

2 that wave that would come in. And maybe we can 2 Q. Okay. Now, in the context of this
3 reduce the height of your levee protection 3 litigation, at least as relates to what IPET
4 based on a wave berm. 4 has to say -- okay? There's at the very least
5 Q. What is a wave berm, though? Let's 5 one what they call I think foundation failure.
6 start with that. I'm not sure I know what it 6 Let me have it just to make sure I'm
7 is. 7 not pulling words out -- we didn't highlight --
8 A. A wave berm is part of our stability 8 let's highlight this for the record so that
9 berm. It's an earthen berm. It could be 9 Bill can find the sentence.
10 earthen. That's what we normally build our 10 It says, with the exception of four
11 wave berm out of, earthen material. 11 foundation design failures. Okay. I have to
12 Q. So normally when you think of a levee, 12 ask you, one of the four is the what has been
13 I mean, you think of a -- let's mark this as 13 referred to as the northern breach at the IHNC
14 Pinner Number 2. You think of a levee as being 14 east.
15 a mound of earth. (Indicating.) 15 Do you agree that the reason for the
16 (Exhibit Pinner No. 2 was marked for 16 failure there was a design failure?
17 identification and is attached hereto.) 17 A. That's what I read from IPET, yes.
18 A. Right. 18 Q. I know that's what they said. I'm
19 EXAMINATION BY MR. BRUNO: 19 asking you your opinion. Do you agree or do
20 Q. All right. So where is the wave 20 you think they're crazy?
21 berm -- if one says build a wave berm, where 21 MR. TREEBY:
22 does it go and what does it look like? 22 Objection.
23 A. It would be on the flood side. 23 A. You know, that's -- you know, if they
24 Q. Okay. Put an F on one side and P on 24 said it breached before overtopping?
25 the other side. P for protected, flood for the 25 Otherwise, it overtopped.
Page 93 Page 95
1 other side. 1 EXAMINATION BY MR. BRUNO:

2 A. Hydraulics would tell you, okay, you 2 Q. Okay. Well, am I understanding you to
3 need an earthen section. (Indicating.) 3 say that if the breaching occurred before
4 Q. Okay. So basically, you're putting 4 overtopping, then necessarily that means that
5 more earth in front of the levee to do 5 there was a design failure?
6 something with the waves. 6 MR. STONE:
7 A. Correct. 7 Objection.
8 Q. Okay. All right. All right. 8 A. I'm not sure if there's a design
9 Do you know if there's something that 9 failure. I know there's a new thing they
10 could be put away from the levee to knock down 10 found, IPET study came up with this CAP
11 waves, like some sort of a structure or the 11 analysis, they determined that this wall opened
12 like? 12 up, you got a full hydrostatic head down to the
13 A. My understanding, to do something like 13 tip and the wall slid.
14 that you almost have to build it as high as 14 EXAMINATION BY MR. BRUNO:
15 your levee. And I'll give you an example. I 15 Q. I know. Mr. Pinner, please listen
16 can give you an example in another location. 16 very carefully to my question, because I'm
17 Q. Right. Could you plant trees? Could 17 asking you just this: And tell me your view.
18 trees act as a wave berm? 18 I've asked you specifically, do you believe
19 A. I would say no. Not during hurricane 19 that the wall fell as a result of a design
20 conditions. 20 failure? That's my question to you. You can
21 Q. No? Have you studied that? 21 say I agree or you can say I don't agree.
22 A. No. 22 A. Design failure.
23 Q. Have the Dutch studied that? 23 Q. Yes. That's what the words are here.
24 A. Excuse me? 24 It says, foundation design failures. That's
25 Q. Have the Dutch studied that? 25 what they wrote there. (Indicating.) And I'm
Page 94 Page 96
24 (Pages 93 to 96)
PINNER, RICHARD B.
7/17/2008
1 just trying to see what you think. 1 A. I was more or less involved I think in
2 A. Yes. I mean, based on what they put 2 one of the last reports. I'm not sure I was
3 in the IPET report. I didn't go back and study 3 involved early on in that project.
4 it myself. I didn't go back and check their 4 Q. What last report?
5 numbers. I read the analysis, I read their 5 A. Like a foundation report, determining,
6 strength lines, and they determined that based 6 you know, um -- foundation conditions, um --
7 on this CAP analysis that this wall cannot -- 7 maybe pile lengths and tie-in walls.
8 you know, it breached before overtopping. 8 Q. Now, that's what I was curious to
9 Q. All right. That's what they had to 9 know. The pile capacity, was that I-wall sheet
10 say. 10 pile or was that foundation piling?
11 A. Correct. 11 A. Foundation piles.
12 Q. Are you agreeing, or are you saying I 12 Q. Round or square concrete or piles of
13 haven't done my own analysis so I don't know 13 that nature?
14 whether to agree or disagree? 14 A. Round steel piles. That's one option.
15 A. No. Right now, what they based in 15 Q. Okay. Did you have anything to do
16 front of me, I'd say I have to agree with their 16 with the design of the -- well, let me ask you
17 analysis. 17 this: Do you know that -- whether or not that
18 Q. Based upon what you read, it works for 18 what is contemplated as part of this new lock
19 you, right? 19 is to install a new flood protection structure
20 A. Yes. 20 on the protected side of the existing flood
21 Q. But you've not done your own 21 control structure in the Lower Ninth Ward?
22 independent evaluation. 22 A. I'm not sure about that.
23 A. No. I didn't do my own independent 23 Q. You don't know.
24 analysis. 24 A. I don't have recollection of that.
25 Q. Okay. We'll go through a few 25 Q. Fair enough.
Page 97 Page 99
1 documents now and see where it takes us. 1 I'm going to show you a document which
2 A. Okay. 2 is marked NPM 011-626. This has got, in pen --
3 Q. I'm going to show you the document 3 MR. BRUNO:
4 which is -- 4 Richard, I don't know where that
5 MR. BRUNO: 5 came from.
6 Richard, I'm just going to try to 6 MR. STONE:
7 use the Bates number instead of 7 No problem. Can we do it like
8 attaching all this stuff. But I'll 8 this, as far as attaching, just make
9 leave it entirely up to you. 9 this, like the entire stack of
10 EXAMINATION BY MR. BRUNO: 10 documents, Exhibit 2 or 3, wherever
11 Q. NED 18061 through 64. (Tendering.) 11 you are?
12 Do you recognize that document? 12 MR. BRUNO:
13 A. No. I see my name on top of it, yes. 13 You want to copy all this stuff?
14 But as far as recognizing it? 14 MR. STONE:
15 Q. All right. You may gather that's why 15 Yes. We'll just copy it as an
16 I have the document, because your name is on 16 exhibit.
17 the top. 17 MR. BRUNO:
18 A. Correct. And it looks like -- okay. 18 I may not ask questions on
19 Yeah. All right. Florida Avenue complex, 19 everything.
20 ultimate pile capacity -- I remember. Have 20 MR. STONE:
21 some recollection. 21 Well, whatever you don't ask
22 Q. Okay. Did you have anything to do 22 questions on just leave out. One
23 with the design or the planning of the lock 23 exhibit.
24 replacement project? And by that I mean the 24 MR. BRUNO:
25 IHNC lock replacement project. 25 All right. I'm going to start
Page 98 Page 100
25 (Pages 97 to 100)
PINNER, RICHARD B.
7/17/2008
1 making a stack and I'm going to put it 1 MVD 72668 through 2688, and it shows you as the
2 right there. 2 structure foundations section chief. And my
3 A. You want me to go back to that 3 only question is if you could give me some
4 exhibit? I mean, I remember this a little bit. 4 sense of time where that organizational chart
5 EXAMINATION BY MR. BRUNO: 5 may have been appropriate.
6 Q. Yeah. Tell me if you have some memory 6 A. Like I said, I became a chief either
7 of it. 7 2004 or 2005, that time frame.
8 A. I'm not sure about this pile capacity 8 Q. Fair enough. All right.
9 curve. I remember doing a pile capacity curve 9 MR. BRUNO:
10 for this structure. I mean, that's all I did 10 You're sure you want to copy all
11 for that complex. 11 this junk, huh?
12 Q. What's a pile capacity curve? 12 MR. STONE:
13 A. How much that pile can handle, how 13 That's the only way I know to get
14 much load that pile can take on. 14 the nuggets out of it.
15 Q. And that's directional load, that's 15 MR. BRUNO:
16 straight down only. 16 Well, they're not heavy nuggets.
17 A. Vertical load. 17 MR. STONE:
18 Q. That's not horizontal -- I mean that's 18 I mean --
19 not -- 19 EXAMINATION BY MR. BRUNO:
20 A. No. It's the foundation pile for 20 Q. All right. Let me show you a document
21 maybe a structure. 21 entitled Floodwall and Levee Performance
22 Q. All right. I'm going show you 22 Analysis, MVD 7-1882 through 1884.
23 something called the Needs Assessment and First 23 And does that -- do you know what this
24 Three-Year Mitigation Plan Executive Summary. 24 is?
25 It's NPM 011626. And further, at Page 4 of the 25 A. I mean, I see the first thing, IPET.
Page 101 Page 103
1 document it says, First Three-Year Mitigation 1 Q. All right. So were you on the IPET
2 Plan Recommendations with Spending Limits 2 team?
3 Approved by the Community-Based Mitigation 3 A. I'm not sure if I was a team member,
4 Committee, and then specifically where I see 4 per se, but I know my name shows up in one of
5 your name is on a document that says, 5 the reports.
6 Housing-Lower Ninth Ward, Holy Cross, 6 Q. Yeah. Well, it shows up on this one.
7 St. Claude and Bywater neighborhoods, about the 7 A. Okay.
8 potential impacts to housing, noise and 8 Q. It says team. Okay? And I didn't
9 vibration impacts will be discussed by Mr. John 9 know what team meant, in fairness to you. Now,
10 Grieshaber and Mr. Richard Pinner of the Corps. 10 I'm not saying you're in IPET, but I just want
11 Let me show it to you so you'll see 11 to know what team means to you in this
12 that I'm reading it accurately. (Tendering.) 12 document, because there's a whole bunch of
13 A. Okay. 13 guys, you're listed, and then there's a
14 Q. Do you have any knowledge or memory of 14 paragraph that begins with objective. The
15 this? 15 objective of this task is to analyze the levees
16 A. I remember attending that meeting with 16 and floodwalls used in the New Orleans flood
17 John. 17 protection system to determine their
18 Q. Tell us about the meeting. 18 performance during Hurricane Katrina.
19 A. I don't remember exactly or recall 19 (Tendering.)
20 exactly what we discussed. I assume we had 20 A. Okay.
21 impact on driving piles and for the new 21 Q. All right. So whether or not you were
22 replacement lock, what type of noise you might 22 part of IPET, were you on a team who had an
23 create. 23 objective to evaluate the performance of the
24 Q. Okay. All right. 24 levees?
25 I'll show a directory which is marked 25 A. I supplied data to that team, the ERDC
Page 102 Page 104
26 (Pages 101 to 104)

PINNER, RICHARD B.
7/17/2008
1 team I'll call it, Reed Mosher and on down the 1 and GIWW.
2 line. As far as I'm doing analysis for them, 2 Q. All right.
3 no, they had corresponded with myself and Pete 3 MR. BRUNO:
4 Kelly. 4 In or out?
5 Q. I'm sorry. You said ERDC? 5 MR. STONE:
6 A. ERDC. It used to be our division 6 Just stick it in the pile.
7 office. Engineering Development and Research 7 A. Going back 25 years now.
8 Center. It's part of the IPET team. 8 EXAMINATION BY MR. BRUNO:
9 Q. That's in Vicksburg. 9 Q. (Tendering.)
10 A. Correct. 10 A. '85. You want me to read this whole
11 Q. Okay. 11 thing?
12 A. And it really is IPET. The guy from 12 Q. No, no, no. If you have no memory of
13 IPET. 13 it forget about it. If you don't remember, the
14 Q. Who's the guy from IPET? 14 document is going to speak for itself.
15 A. Reed Mosher. 15 A. Right.
16 Q. Reed Mosher. 16 Q. Okay. That's fine. You have no
17 All right. Anyway, tell me what you 17 memory, you have no memory.
18 gave them again? I'm sorry. Just briefly, you 18 Those documents just generally seem to
19 weren't on the team but you gave them some 19 be talking about when it comes to borings
20 information. 20 somehow you get involved. Is there -- is
21 A. Right. General data on history of 21 borings something that you would be the guy --
22 things or what our criteria was or soil data. 22 the go to guy for?
23 We supplied them the soil data. And if he 23 A. No. I mean, everybody in my office
24 asked for, okay, what available data do you 24 deals with borings. It so happened I was
25 have in this area, where are your GDMs, we 25 dealing with this project at that time, I
Page 105 Page 107
1 supplied them all that information. 1 guess. It so happened, Chalmette battlefield

2 Q. All right. 2 borrow pit, I'm not sure exactly where that
3 (Off the record.) 3 borrow pit is, but someone is supplying borings
4 EXAMINATION BY MR. BRUNO: 4 to me.
5 Q. All right. I'm going to show you 5 Q. Right. I show you a document
6 these documents, and you tell me just your 6 identified as PET 19-1814. (Tendering.)
7 general memory of it. PET 12700 through 703. 7 A. I'm just looking at the title. It's
8 (Tendering.) 8 saying Station 64 to 360, and I guess the
9 What if anything do you recall about 9 stations down here are 278 to 357. I think I
10 that? 10 have a recollection of this job.
11 A. I'm trying to think where the Jourdan 11 Q. All right. Just what was it about?
12 Road terminal is. 12 A. It's from Paris Road to Bayou
13 Q. It's on the IHNC. 13 Bienvenue, raising that levee up. I got to
14 A. But where on the IHNC? I mean, I -- 14 take a guess that we're looking at borrowing
15 you know, is that -- is this the Jourdan Road 15 material along really the GIWW, you know,
16 terminal over here? It says citrus back levee. 16 taking material out here someplace, by Paris
17 So this must be analysis someplace around here, 17 Road bridge.
18 Citrus back levee. I see it down here. It 18 Q. Okay. All right.
19 says citrus back levee, so it's not along IHNC, 19 A. Which I don't think happened.
20 it's along the GIWW. 20 Q. Do you know what these borings would
21 Q. Okay. I see. Any memory of this? 21 have been used for?
22 A. Not from 1984. 22 A. Which borings?
23 Q. That's fine. 23 Q. Well, apparently they all regard this,
24 A. But, you know, a little bit memory, I 24 um -- same area, um -- around the junction of
25 think it's right there on the Citrus back levee 25 the MRGO and the Intracoastal Waterway.
Page 106 Page 108
27 (Pages 105 to 108)

PINNER, RICHARD B.
7/17/2008
1 A. That was more or less if we're 1 A. Correct.

2 taking -- you know, to classify the material, 2 Q. All right, sir. And what I was
3 to determine if the material was suitable for 3 curious here is they say that -- reference new
4 levee fill. 4 surveys and soundings dated July, 1986,
5 Q. Take a look at NED 132-3566 and 67. 5 received 23 July and 7 August 1986,
6 (Tendering.) Any memory of that? 6 respectively, for the subject project. For the
7 A. St. Charles Parish -- 7 subject levee lift, the levee between Stations
8 Q. Yeah. 8 585+00 to 591+00 cannot be raised to hurricane
9 A. -- project? I know a St. Charles 9 HLP design grade of elevation 17.5 due to the
10 Parish project. 10 soil shear strengths and the foreshore rock
11 Q. Okay. 11 dike being placed 24 feet to 86 feet closer to
12 A. Some recollection, looks like it's 12 the levee CL than the distance of 200 feet as
13 some type of alternatives we might have been 13 shown in the foreshore plans. Therefore, an
14 looking at building a levee in St. Charles 14 I-wall may be required between Stations 585+00
15 Parish. 15 to 591+00 to raise the protection in this area
16 Q. All right. What I'm just curious 16 to hurricane HLP.
17 about here is they're talking about you 17 Now, first question is, obviously the
18 reviewing a levee design that was done by St. 18 height that you all were working toward is
19 Charles Parish. 19 17.5 feet, right?
20 A. I guess I'd have to read it again. 20 A. Correct.
21 Q. (Indicating.) 21 Q. Okay. What I don't understand is is
22 A. Okay. Let me review the submittal. 22 the foreshore -- how would the foreshore rock
23 Lakefront levee design. Okay. All right. I 23 dike impair the ability to do that lift?
24 don't think it was by the parish, it was by 24 A. We're looking at stability. So I
25 Mr. Becnel. 25 thought they had more land to build a stability
Page 109 Page 111
1 Q. Okay. So -- but still, he's working 1 berm. So now they don't have -- that rock dike
2 for St. Charles Parish -- 2 is a little bit closer, so I'm not counting
3 A. (Shakes head negatively.) 3 anything outside my rock dike area. So as far
4 Q. No? 4 as stability, I designed that section with that
5 A. I don't think -- if I have the proper 5 rock dike at that location.
6 recollection, this guy wanted to build a levee 6 Q. Now, here's -- the rock dike is there
7 along the lakefront, and he was coming up with 7 because of the wave wash that occurs in the
8 his own designs. 8 MRGO, right?
9 Q. I see. Okay. 9 A. I guess.
10 A. So he came up -- this is a private 10 Q. I mean, that's a feature, if you will,
11 citizen. 11 of the navigation project.
12 Q. Got you. Okay. Now, let me show you 12 A. What, the --
13 a document NPM 28-45 through 50. 13 Q. Rock dike.
14 A. Okay. 14 A. Toward the navigation project?
15 Q. All right. Do you know where this is? 15 Q. Yeah.
16 A. Let me look at the stations again. 16 A. I guess so.
17 Along MRGO. 17 Q. All right. Well --
18 Q. Yeah. 18 A. I'm not -- I assume so. Like I said,
19 A. Station 580 to 591. It might be south 19 I didn't design that rock dike for MRGO.
20 of Dupre. I'm not sure about the station 20 Q. Well, not the point. The point is,
21 numbers. I'm trying to think of what the 21 though, remember we talked a little bit ago
22 station numbers are again. It's been a while. 22 about how close that was to the toe of the
23 Q. But it's clear, though, that it's in 23 levee in that area?
24 the vicinity of the hurricane protection 24 A. Correct.
25 structure along the MRGO. 25 Q. So here we have an encroachment that's
Page 110 Page 112
28 (Pages 109 to 112)

PINNER, RICHARD B.
7/17/2008
1 actually impairing the Corps' ability to do the 1 Q. Only quick question was, it says here
2 lift. 2 that the work of driving 95 feet of uncapped
3 A. We have another alternative to raise 3 sheet piling on both sides of the structure
4 that levee up. 4 will be included in the Chalmette area plan.
5 Q. But the alternative was made necessary 5 And I was just curious to know if you
6 because of the encroachment to that levee, 6 knew whether or not there was some debate as to
7 isn't that true? 7 whether that cost should have been included in
8 A. I guess based on that levee section. 8 some other competing project or not.
9 I'm not sure what was existing beforehand. 9 A. I'm assuming that was part of the
10 Q. Well, actually we do know what was 10 hurricane protection project.
11 existing beforehand. We had 200 feet shown. 11 Q. All right. I show you PET 1555 in
12 A. Right. 12 seriatim to 1564, and in particular Page 1559.
13 Q. And now we don't have it. 13 (Tendering.)
14 A. Right. Okay. 14 A. Okay.
15 Q. And so somebody took the 200 feet 15 Q. Is there a reason why -- well, do you
16 away. 16 recall this at all, first? Do you know what
17 A. Right. I mean, based on plans, maybe 17 this is about?
18 a rock dike at 200 feet and they placed that 18 A. I know driving the sheet piling and
19 rock dike -- I'm not sure if they placed it at 19 the other part you're talking about.
20 the 200-foot mark. That's -- I guess, in other 20 Highlighted -- I assume this is the job between
21 words, somebody came back and said I'm not sure 21 Paris Road and Bayou Bienvenue, based on the
22 if that's erosion or that's the location of the 22 stations.
23 rock dike. 23 Q. Well, did you have a role in the
24 Q. Okay. 24 determination -- it seems that you did-- to
25 A. So based on that memo, that's where 25 change the specification from uncompacted fill
Page 113 Page 115
1 the rock dike is. 1 to semi-compacted fill?

2 Q. All right. Bottom line is because, 2 A. Okay. Yes.
3 though, of that dike you had to change your 3 Q. Do you know what it is that's being
4 design. 4 filled?
5 A. I'm not sure if I had to change my 5 A. I assume we're raising the levee up.
6 design because of the rock dike. 6 A levee lift.
7 Q. Well, you went from a soil levee to an 7 Q. So this is a levee lift.
8 I-wall. 8 A. Correct.
9 A. Correct. 9 Q. Okay. Now, this is confusing, but
10 Q. That's a big change in design to me. 10 again this is the way it comes to me. Then I
11 Maybe I'm crazy. 11 have this document NED 163297 and 298. And 298
12 A. Right. I changed my alternative to 12 is the same document, PET 151559. Okay? But
13 provide flood protection because of stability 13 my question regards document NED 163297, which
14 concerns and MRGO at this location. 14 is this one, because I'm trying to figure out
15 Q. All right. Okay. 15 if this letter is in response to this request.
16 (Off the record.) 16 This is a letter, or a memo, from
17 EXAMINATION BY MR. BRUNO: 17 Mr. Daniel Marsalone, chief of the design
18 Q. I show you document NED 163300 through 18 branch. Do you know who that is?
19 302. This regards the Bayou Bienvenue control 19 A. Dan Marsalone? Yes.
20 structure. (Tendering.) Just one quick 20 Q. Who is he?
21 question on that. 21 A. I think he was chief of design branch
22 A. I'm trying to think of where this is 22 at that time, or he was assistant chief of the
23 exactly. I know 291 to 300. The third levee 23 engineering division. That's Dan Marsalone one
24 lift. This is most likely from Paris Road 24 of the design engineer.
25 bridge to Bayou Bienvenue. Okay. 25 Q. He's in the engineering section for
Page 114 Page 116
29 (Pages 113 to 116)

PINNER, RICHARD B.
7/17/2008
1 sure. 1 section.
2 A. Engineering section, most likely 2 A. Correct. He's in -- chief of design
3 structures branch. 3 branch.
4 Q. All right. Then it's to a Mr. Kerns, 4 Q. Right.
5 it looks like. No, it's a memorandum for 5 A. Okay.
6 CELMN. Who is that? 6 Q. And so I'm just curious to know, if
7 A. CL? 7 you know, the engineering guys on your side
8 Q. CEL. 8 think it's relevant, apparently, to me. Maybe
9 A. DL? If you say Sam Kerns -- okay. I 9 it's not. But do you know why he put it in
10 think Sam Kerns wrote this memo. 10 there?
11 Q. Right. But this is -- 11 A. No.
12 A. This looks like for hydraulics. The H 12 Q. Okay. No problem.
13 stands for hydraulics. 13 Did you have anything to do with the
14 Q. Okay. And, um -- we ask that you 14 installation of foreshore protection on the
15 review the cross-sections to determine what the 15 MRGO channel banks in the vicinity of the levee
16 wave berm requirements should be based upon 16 control -- I'm sorry. Hurricane protection
17 existing ground conditions in the proximity of 17 control structure there?
18 the levee CL. 18 A. I had maybe one little area by Bayou
19 What is CL? 19 Bienvenue, doing a foreshore dike.
20 A. CL? C/L. Center line. If that's -- 20 Q. You designed it?
21 if it's C/L. 21 A. I designed the stability of that
22 Q. All right. To the channel. And I 22 foreshore dike.
23 note that they say in Paragraph 4, the center 23 Q. And do you know if the charges for
24 line of the levee is located from 400 to 24 your work were charged to the MRGO project, or
25 950 feet from the water 's edge of the MRGO. 25 were they charged to the Lake Pontchartrain and
Page 117 Page 119
1 The area between the levee and water 's edge is 1 Vicinity Hurricane Protection Project?
2 thick with vegetation of small trees and scrub 2 A. Don't know. Don't recall.
3 brush. 3 Q. All right. All you did was keep your
4 You see that? 4 time.
5 A. Okay. 5 A. Correct. And that was many years ago.
6 Q. And this is from your engineering guy 6 Q. Of course. It's not -- it's not your
7 to the hydraulics guy. 7 decision as to how those things should be
8 A. Okay. 8 charged, is it?
9 Q. Do you know why it would be relevant 9 A. In most cases, no.
10 to identify the fact that there is this thick 10 Q. Who has the job, if you will, or the
11 vegetation and small trees in the context of a 11 responsibility to determine how these things
12 request for wave berm requirements? 12 will be charged?
13 A. I think you need to ask the hydraulic 13 A. Someone with project management will
14 engineer that. Personally, I would not count 14 determine.
15 on the trees during hurricane conditions. 15 Q. Well, if it's an operations issue, who
16 Q. I'm sorry. I lost that. I'm sorry. 16 decides how to charge?
17 Would you answer again? 17 A. Again, I guess we ask operations. If
18 A. My response would be you should be 18 it's an operations issue, they would determine.
19 asking the hydraulic engineer. But my opinion, 19 Q. The need for foreshore protection was
20 during hurricane conditions I would not count 20 uncovered as a component of operations'
21 on trees. I have no clue why they're -- 21 evaluation of the MRGO, isn't that true?
22 Q. I'm with you, but I ask the question 22 A. That area?
23 because Dan, who's asking the question, 23 Q. Yeah.
24 includes the information. He's in the 24 A. I'm not sure.
25 engineering division, not in the hydraulics 25 Q. Okay. Do you know who made the
Page 118 Page 120
30 (Pages 117 to 120)

PINNER, RICHARD B.
7/17/2008
1 request to you to make the design for the 1 A. My belief is that way you don't have
2 foreshore protection? 2 to raise up, you know, 30 miles of levee,
3 A. I assume somebody from levees, I'm not 3 whatever that length of levee is -- maybe ten
4 sure. 4 miles of levee.
5 Q. All right. You don't know. 5 Q. And the cause of increased surge in
6 A. No. Too long ago. 6 that area is what?
7 Q. Got you. Do you have anything to do 7 MR. STONE:
8 with the 100-year protection plan in place, or 8 Objection.
9 at least that's contemplated by the Corps now? 9 A. I'm not sure what the question is.
10 A. Yes. 10 EXAMINATION BY MR. BRUNO:
11 Q. And what is your role in connection 11 Q. In other words, the high water that's
12 with that? 12 contemplated to be kept back from the
13 A. We're doing the geotechnical designs, 13 proposed --
14 make sure that the geotechnical designs are 14 A. Hurricane. I figure hurricane.
15 done properly. 15 Q. -- hurricane acting on -- the
16 Q. All right. Are you familiar with the 16 hurricane acts on land features, does it not?
17 initial proposals for lock expansion -- I guess 17 A. (Shakes head negatively.)
18 I don't remember the dates, but, in the past, 18 MR. STONE:
19 in particular the Violet location for a lock? 19 Objection. Vague.
20 A. I might have heard of that location, 20 EXAMINATION BY MR. BRUNO:
21 but I have no knowledge of that area. 21 Q. No? That's all right.
22 Q. Well, doesn't the current 100-year 22 You had something to do with the
23 plan use information that was put together by 23 London Avenue power protection?
24 some of those previous plans? 24 A. I might have had a little bit maybe
25 A. I guess you have to ask hydraulics 25 around UNO.
Page 121 Page 123
1 that question. I'm not sure. 1 Q. Do you know how many lifts there were
2 Q. The 100-year plan calls for a levee 2 on the MRGO flood protection structure over
3 along the Lake Borgne shore? 3 time?
4 A. I'm not sure at that location. I 4 A. I guess I want to say three. I've
5 thought it more or less -- most of the plan I 5 seen three lifts. You mean levee lifts.
6 thought was following the same alignment except 6 Q. Levee lifts, yes.
7 for some type of MRGO closure. I'm more or 7 A. I'm not sure. You've got other type
8 less dealing with I guess the PRO projects. We 8 of lifts out there also.
9 more or less got two districts here. You know, 9 Q. Well, there are three main ones. One
10 and the HPO projects, which is more or less 10 was in what, 196 --
11 Col. Beatty is head of, are handling the 11 A. I'm not sure.
12 St. Bernard projects, New Orleans East and 12 Q. You don't remember the dates?
13 Orleans Parish projects. So I know of a 13 A. Some after Hurricane Betsy.
14 project they're looking at right now to build a 14 Q. Do you know whether or not the
15 flood protection structure someplace in this 15 experience of Hurricane Betsy did influence in
16 vicinity. I'm not sure about along the lake 16 any way the designs of the hurricane protection
17 shoreline. 17 structures built pursuant to the Lake
18 Q. Okay. And so what is that -- what is 18 Pontchartrain and Vicinity Hurricane Protection
19 that flood protection structure designed to do? 19 Plan?
20 A. For 100-year flood protection. 20 A. No.
21 Q. To keep water out of the IHNC? 21 Q. Look at NED 132-6202. Just curious
22 A. Or reduce it. 22 about one thing here. (Tendering.) This is
23 Q. Reduce it. And do you know why it's 23 just going to be a general question, so I just
24 necessary to have a flood protection structure 24 want to see if you're familiar with the
25 there as opposed to some other location? 25 project.
Page 122 Page 124
31 (Pages 121 to 124)

PINNER, RICHARD B.
7/17/2008
1 A. Okay. Sure. Okay. I know it's up in 1 Q. I'm sorry. You're right. Somebody
2 St. Charles Parish. 2 else did.
3 Q. My only question here is it says the 3 And document Number NGR 10-1796 and 97
4 authorizing document. Do you know what that 4 refers again to these so-called vertical sand
5 makes reference to? It says the GDM Number 18, 5 drains. Right?
6 the authorizing document. 6 A. Correct.
7 A. I take it as the general design 7 Q. And these are actual holes filled with
8 memorandum. It's the design package for 8 sand, and they're filled with sand because you
9 changing looks like that alignment for that 9 know and expect the water to go through the
10 levee out in St. Charles Parish. 10 sand easier than through the soils, right?
11 Q. Right. But it's the word authorizing 11 A. You're trying to relieve uplift
12 that I'm curious about. I mean, what is the 12 pressures, mostly likely.
13 relationship between the general design memo 13 Q. In fact, your alternate method would
14 and the authorization, if any, if you know? 14 be to just put a PVC pipe as opposed to the
15 A. No. I don't really know. I assume 15 sand.
16 that's Congress passed something. 16 A. That's another means. We make sand
17 Q. Look at NED 81-254. It talks about 17 trenches, also.
18 relief wells. Just curious to know what in 18 Q. That's how conductive sand is. Right?
19 that context is the purpose of a relief well? 19 A. If you've got the proper gradation.
20 A. Relief well is part of the design 20 Now if it's a silty sand the water doesn't flow
21 feature as far as if you have seepage or uplift 21 as easily. And that's a proper gradation.
22 pressure problems. And that's one way you 22 Q. Right.
23 would -- this one, it was more or less sand 23 A. So it's not just any sand.
24 columns they put into the ground so the water 24 Q. All right. Construction sand. Is
25 can flow out into a drainage canal. 25 that like sand?
Page 125 Page 127
1 Q. And the idea is that because sand is 1 A. Construction sand?

2 porous it can conduct water more easily than 2 Q. Structural sand. I'm sorry. Wrong
3 compacted soil. Right? 3 word. Structural sand.
4 A. If it's compacted clay material. If 4 A. I'd need to know gradation of the
5 you're looking at permeability, everything got 5 sand.
6 a permeability. Sand is more permeable than 6 Q. Is there a specification for something
7 clay. 7 called structural sand?
8 Q. That's my point. That's why they use 8 A. I know we have structural backfill.
9 sand. 9 And sometimes structural backfill is sand.
10 A. Yeah. You even put sand -- normally 10 Q. Right.
11 they have two different ways to make relief 11 A. So we put sand against our backfill.
12 wells. You can just put PVC pipe. But we put 12 Does it have a gradation to it? I'd have to go
13 a sand column out there. 13 back and look at the specs.
14 Q. Right. So you put a hole with sand in 14 Q. How about this: When you specify
15 it. 15 structural sand for backfill, that's just sand,
16 A. Right. 16 right?
17 Q. That's why I asked the question, is 17 A. We might have some type of thing,
18 because -- 18 maybe it doesn't have too much fines, maybe 10
19 A. Sand is more permeable. 19 percent, 15 percent, which would mean something
20 Q. Back to the same place where we 20 on the clay materials. So you have to have a
21 started. 21 purpose. Because nothing is pure around here,
22 A. Okay. 22 even our clays.
23 Q. All right. And you purposefully put 23 Q. Well, around here you do call for sand
24 sand there because you know it conducts water. 24 from time to time, and that's --
25 A. Somebody did. 25 A. Correct.
Page 126 Page 128
32 (Pages 125 to 128)

PINNER, RICHARD B.
7/17/2008
1 Q. -- a general specification, right? I 1 conditions.

2 mean that's generally river sand. 2 Q. Okay.
3 A. Yeah, we will put -- we just don't 3 A. I guess like I say, you're also
4 call it river sand. We will maybe put some 4 connected to that channel. The foundation
5 other qualifications to it. We will say how 5 condition was that channel.
6 much fines go along with that sand. 6 (Lunch break.)
7 Q. All right. So if you didn't put any 7 EXAMINATION BY MR. BRUNO:
8 qualifications to it, that would be just a 8 Q. Mr. Pinner, let me ask you to look at
9 general specification, right? 9 NED 1531498 in seriatim to 1500. (Tendering.)
10 A. I guess so. 10 A. What's the question?
11 Q. All right. I mean, there's a 11 Q. Just look at it because I'm going to
12 distinction between a general specification and 12 show you another document and I'm trying to
13 a prescribed specification, isn't there? 13 understand if these things are related or not.
14 A. I mean, if you're making reference to 14 Also, NED 1531613 to 1642. (Tendering.)
15 that relief well, they have to specify a 15 Are those documents the same or are
16 purpose for that sand column. And we have a 16 they connected in any way?
17 very porous sand there. So there's a special 17 A. Right now I don't recall this document
18 purpose. 18 dealing with BCG. I know they did work out
19 Q. But so my point is, though, if you 19 there. Looks like some type of template, maybe
20 wanted to indicate that you wanted a special 20 of cost estimate. I mean, I see a PAP --
21 kind of something, you will use a prescribed 21 Q. Right. Well, my question is going to
22 specification as opposed to a general 22 be general first.
23 specification. 23 A. Okay.
24 A. If you have a special purpose. I 24 Q. And in general what I want to
25 mean, like we use random fill on backfilling 25 understand is the process. That seems to be a
Page 129 Page 131
1 things. 1 request by someone to folks in the engineering

2 Q. Right. 2 department to do some budgeting for engineering
3 A. Random fill could be sand, clay, silt. 3 work. Is that right?
4 Q. Anything. 4 A. You would do -- like I said, if you're
5 A. Anything. I wouldn't say anything, 5 writing a task order for an AE to do some work,
6 but those -- 6 you have to come up with what we call a
7 Q. It couldn't be washing machines and 7 government estimate, how much time it's going
8 driers, but -- 8 to take to do that project.
9 A. Right. 9 Q. But this seems to be something
10 Q. It would have to be generally fill, I 10 different because this seems to talk about a
11 hope. 11 whole bunch of projects as opposed to one
12 A. Fill material that's suitable for its 12 particular project.
13 purpose. 13 Am I wrong there? It goes on for
14 Q. And that's my point, there's a 14 pages.
15 distinction between a general specification and 15 A. Right. I mean, I'd have to read --
16 a specific or prescribed specification. Right? 16 like I said, it said levee, floodwalls and
17 A. Okay. Yes. 17 channels.
18 Q. With regard to these relief wells that 18 Q. That's just a general descriptor, and
19 we talked a little bit ago, those relief wells 19 then it goes on to list several levee,
20 are located along the Citrus back levee on the 20 floodwalls and channels, and then -- have you
21 west bank of the Michoud Canal. 21 never seen --
22 A. Okay. 22 A. I wouldn't say never seen this. My
23 Q. Do you know why there was a need for 23 name is on this so I would assume I seen it
24 relief wells at that particular location? 24 back in the year 2000.
25 A. I guess because of the foundation 25 Q. Right.
Page 130 Page 132
33 (Pages 129 to 132)

PINNER, RICHARD B.
7/17/2008
1 A. It looks like it's flood protection 1 Q. The Galvez Street wharf --

2 leading up to I guess the new proposed lock. 2 A. Okay.
3 You know, because we would be raising the flood 3 Q. -- is that on the IHNC?
4 protection from the new lock. I mean existing 4 A. Yeah. I think it's across the street
5 lock to the new lock. To river levee 5 from -- it's on the west side.
6 protection. 6 Q. The west side. Okay. So obviously
7 Q. Well, maybe I'm wrong, but when I read 7 this more than one project.
8 the document it seemed like this is something 8 A. That's all to do with IHNC. That's
9 that is done every year, that there would be a 9 where the new proposed lock will be.
10 request to develop a budget and this 10 Q. I see. It's different locations
11 information was assisting someone in developing 11 within the lock expansion project.
12 a budget. 12 A. It's all to do with the lock project,
13 Am I wrong about that? 13 it appears to me.
14 A. Maybe a budget -- like I said, not 14 Q. All right. Well, do you know how that
15 reading it in complete detail, maybe a budget 15 project -- I mean, was it done in phases, for
16 for this project because it's going to be 16 example? I mean, it certainly wasn't done at
17 running over more than one fiscal year. 17 one time.
18 Q. All right. Well -- 18 A. Right. I mean, I think they got many
19 A. Looks like it's two fiscal years, 19 reports out there. I got involved, I guess,
20 fiscal year 2000 and -- I mean, '00 plus '01, 20 I'm surprised, about that time frame, I guess
21 2000 and 2001. 21 2000 I think is one of the last reports out
22 Q. Well, you say this project, but again 22 there. But like I say, it's I won't say
23 I look at No. 1, it talks about BCG, and then 23 piecemeal, it's all one project and it took
24 it talks about Phase 1 levee wall west side 24 many years to come up with that design. I
25 St. Claude, and then it talks about the east 25 think this project has been going on since
Page 133 Page 135
1 side St. Claude, and then for example it talks 1 forty years ago, my understanding.
2 about the TERC which is a totally different 2 Q. Right.
3 location, isn't it? Or is this all one 3 A. So it was a project that's been out
4 location? 4 there for a long time.
5 A. I'm not sure where the TERC location 5 Q. Okay. Well, I guess I'm trying to
6 is. I know where -- 6 understand, because of what you just said, yes,
7 Q. It says demolition of east side 7 we do know this thing has been going on for
8 businesses, which I imagine to be the, um -- 8 forty years.
9 water side of the east bank protection levee in 9 A. Right.
10 the Lower Ninth Ward. 10 Q. And in '00 and '01, somebody is
11 A. Could be east side or west side. Both 11 requesting somebody to develop some cost
12 sides maybe. I know they removed a dock out 12 estimates. So --
13 there, too, on the west side. But it looks 13 A. And I think Ron Elmer is a project
14 like if that's the case they look at how much 14 manager most likely for that project. I mean,
15 funding they need in the year 2000 and 2001 to 15 I see to Ron Elmer. So that project manager
16 keep that project ongoing. 16 asked the team members to come up with a cost
17 Q. All right. So this is not -- so I'm 17 estimate.
18 wrong, this is not a whole bunch of projects, 18 Q. Okay. How does a project reach the
19 this is one project. 19 point where someone is asking for a cost
20 A. It might be one project for IHNC. 20 estimate?
21 Q. Okay. 21 A. I assume a PM from planning division
22 A. For the proposed new ship lock. And 22 asked this person who's in engineering division
23 like I said, I have not looked in great detail. 23 to come up with a cost estimate for engineering
24 I'd have to read all three pages. I'm not the 24 division. This might just be engineer cost.
25 fastest reader. 25 It's not planning division, not operation
Page 134 Page 136
34 (Pages 133 to 136)

PINNER, RICHARD B.
7/17/2008
1 division, this one part of it. And they will 1 fiscal year, you know, for that project, if
2 come back and ask for team members. In 2 they start building something.
3 geotech, like I said, on most projects you got 3 I'm not sure what construction -- I
4 a geotechnical engineer. So they came and 4 guess construction is demolishing the east side
5 asked my office, or whoever's office it was at 5 businesses and they're asking support within
6 that time, to come up with a cost estimate. 6 the engineering division.
7 Q. It sounds like, and I just want to 7 Q. All right. Do you know what BCG Task
8 confirm, that the engineering department really 8 Order Number 1 is?
9 doesn't have anything to do with the decision 9 A. That's one of the AE local companies.
10 to go forward with a particular project, that's 10 That's a task order I guess to do some type of
11 some other department. 11 design, like levees, floodwalls and channels.
12 A. We supply this to, I'll call it, to 12 Q. All right. AE is Architectural
13 the planning division. 13 Engineering firm?
14 Q. You're supplying engineering support 14 A. Correct.
15 to the division which is doing the project. 15 Q. So they've got a contract?
16 Right? 16 A. Sounds like a contract with the Corps
17 A. In general, yes. 17 of Engineers.
18 Q. And you don't know how that project 18 Q. And then task order would be a
19 got to the point where they had the authority 19 contract within the contract?
20 or the interest in getting support from you, 20 A. Correct. A scope of work to do
21 right? 21 something.
22 A. Correct. 22 Q. Oh. Well, this document here, the one
23 Q. Okay. Now it talks about the TERC. 23 I've identified as NED 1351613, has a whole
24 Do you know what a TERC is? 24 list of hourly rates.
25 A. Personally, not really. I think I 25 These are the rates charged?
Page 137 Page 139
1 have an idea. It must be environmental issues 1 A. I would say if this is their contract
2 or something. 2 this appears to be the hourly rates.
3 Q. That's fine. This is not a test. But 3 Q. Now, is this hourly rates of the folks
4 it does say on Page NED 1531499, this effort, 4 within the New Orleans District office?
5 referring to the TERC, open paren, demolition 5 Because they have all these GS numbers here.
6 of east side businesses, this effort is being 6 A. I'd have to look at it again. I think
7 handled primarily by ED-G. 7 that was BCG.
8 What is that? 8 Q. No, it says, um -- GS.
9 A. ED-G. General engineering. That's 9 A. It looks like the hourly wage within
10 another branch within engineering division. 10 the government.
11 Q. It's in your division. 11 Q. All right. So these are governmental
12 A. (Nods affirmatively.) 12 rates.
13 Q. It says, just need an idea of what can 13 A. It looks that way. But I see the
14 be accomplished and when based on assumption 14 project here, BCG Task Order Number 1. But it
15 that construction starts July '00. Needed are 15 looks like design -- I'm not sure, but it looks
16 E&D numbers and construction numbers by FY, 16 like our organizational code. So I would say
17 orgs involved EDDG Spadaro. 17 based on what I see here it looks like this is
18 Do you know what that means? 18 in-house charges.
19 A. Which one, the third one? 19 Q. Let me ask you this: Are these
20 Q. Yeah. It's the TERC. I think it says 20 charges consistent with charges that you're
21 TERC. 21 familiar with in working up budgets for
22 A. All right. I'm not sure who Spadaro 22 yourself, $48.89 for a supervisory civil
23 is, but I guess they're saying if construction 23 engineer?
24 starts at this time, what engineering support 24 A. That's kind of low.
25 or design that we need to perform in that 25 Q. I would think.
Page 138 Page 140
35 (Pages 137 to 140)

PINNER, RICHARD B.
7/17/2008
1 A. Right. I mean, you had to have I 1 November 1966 for the subject project.
2 guess the effective rates, then the engineer 2 First of all, take a look at it so
3 and overhead -- indirect rates, and then 3 you'll see if I'm reading it accurately.
4 engineering overhead. So the total rate is 4 A. Okay.
5 $117. 5 Q. Do you have any memory of that work?
6 Q. Okay. 6 A. I most likely had somebody in my
7 A. Yes. 7 office work on this project. Bayou Dupre? I
8 Q. But these rates are pretty -- 8 remember working on that project, yes. Wave
9 A. Pretty much, yeah. 9 berm is an Elevation 9. I don't remember this
10 Q. -- consistent. 10 E-mail, but I remember the project.
11 A. Right. 11 Q. All right. Do you know where the
12 Q. And these are the numbers that would 12 location is?
13 be applied in the case that your hours were 13 A. It says Chalmette area between Bayou
14 recorded and charged against a particular 14 Bienvenue and Dupre, the subject of this
15 project. 15 E-mail.
16 A. Correct. 16 Q. Between Bayou Bienvenue and Dupre
17 Q. Okay. Thank you. 17 which would be?
18 I show you this document which is 18 A. Those two structures, correct.
19 Bates NED 149-514 in seriatim to 533, and this 19 Q. Within the alignment of the MRGO --
20 is again in connection with that pile 20 A. Right.
21 elevation. I thought it might just refresh 21 Q. -- flood protection levee, right?
22 your memory as to what you did in connection 22 A. Correct.
23 with the pile evaluation for the lock expansion 23 Looks like they're talking about
24 project. 24 I-walls. And if you have certain I-walls you
25 A. This looks like some VE study that 25 need a wave berm in front of that I-wall. And
Page 141 Page 143
1 somebody proposing a different type of piles. 1 based on that wave berm you need a certain load
2 Some type of composite pile. 2 and a certain height of protection.
3 Q. Do you know what it's for, what the 3 Q. Okay. You're anticipating my
4 piling is for? 4 question, so let me kind of get it for the
5 A. It most likely may be for the proposed 5 record. All right?
6 ship lock. They wanted us to look at other 6 Do you know why a wave berm was called
7 things besides using concrete piles or steel 7 for in the locations discussed in this
8 piles. They wanted to look at some type of 8 document?
9 composite pile. And we questioned most likely 9 A. I think you need to ask a hydraulic
10 the integrity of that pile. 10 engineer.
11 Q. Okay. Now, this is Bates numbered NED 11 Q. I thought you just said it was because
12 10-1436 to 1439. And it says here, Richard -- 12 there was an I-wall there.
13 meaning you -- the whole reach from Paris Road 13 A. You might need a wave berm also for a
14 along MRGO and back toward Caernarvon needs a 14 levee. But that's also -- that memo looks like
15 wave berm. So if any sections in this reach 15 it's referencing I-walls.
16 are missing wave berms they should be added. 16 Q. Right.
17 Okay, you say, so I will use the same 17 A. And like I said, they'll give us a
18 wave berm for the earthen levee sections 18 typical section, height of protection and some
19 between Bayou Bienvenue and Bayou Dupre for all 19 type of typical section we need to design to,
20 the I-walls levee sections. The subject wave 20 and then we'll modify their section to make
21 berm is elevation 9.0, 42-1/2 feet from the 21 sure it's stable.
22 flood side of the crown with a 1 vertical on 30 22 Q. Right. Okay. So bottom line: The
23 horizontal slide slope down to elevation 5.0. 23 decision as to whether or not a wave berm is
24 This is the section supplied to us and 24 necessary is not an engineering issue?
25 presented in the Design Memo Number 3 dated 25 A. It is. Hydraulics would determine. A
Page 142 Page 144
36 (Pages 141 to 144)

PINNER, RICHARD B.
7/17/2008
1 hydraulic engineer will would tell me a wave 1 proposed site to build the IHNC proposed
2 berm is required. 2 structure off site and float it in. They were
3 Q. So the hydraulic engineering 3 going to build this structure in a hole.
4 section -- 4 Q. That's right. I remember that.
5 A. Correct. 5 A. And these borings are --
6 Q. -- of the engineering department is 6 Q. Okay. So this boring is not -- this
7 the one that made the determination that a wave 7 boring doesn't come from the IHNC.
8 berm was necessary. 8 A. No. Based on this saying graving
9 A. Based on that configuration, yes. 9 site --
10 Q. All right. Now, but it seems like 10 Q. NED 1531451. Just tell me what
11 you're the one -- and maybe I'm wrong here. It 11 project that is.
12 says, the subject wave berm is Elevation 9, 12 A. I don't see a subject matter here.
13 42.5 feet from the flood side levee crown with 13 It's engineering doing construction of Siphon
14 a 1 vertical and 30 horizontal side slope down 14 Number 9, Sewerage & Water Board.
15 to elevation 5.0. This is the section supplied 15 Q. That's along the IHNC, right?
16 to us and presented in the design memo 16 A. I guess so. I mean, based on the DDR
17 Number 3. 17 lock structure, and it -- up above, it says,
18 So tell me what you're doing there. 18 you know, Siphon Number 9. But it looks like,
19 You're just saying to him I'm going to use the 19 like I said, a bunch of tasks within that
20 same design that was supplied to me in the 20 larger project. They're talking about wharf
21 original design memo? 21 demo, talking about levees, floodwalls, Phase I
22 A. I got to look at it again. 22 on the west bank. So it's, you know, parts of
23 Q. Sure. (Tendering.) 23 small jobs within that larger project.
24 A. Yeah. I mean, the person Janet Hotes 24 Q. Let me show you MVD 7-1967 and in
25 is a hydraulic engineer, and she's supplying me 25 particular paragraph -- sorry. It says,
Page 145 Page 147
1 that section just reconfirming this is the 1 technically, these levees along the canals are
2 section I would use. 2 dams.
3 Q. All right. But you -- I guess, did 3 That's what I principally am
4 you choose the sections? 4 interested in, to give you a heads up.
5 A. No. 5 (Tendering.)
6 Q. She did. 6 A. Okay. I'm not sure if that's a final
7 A. She did. Well, what we do sometimes 7 ruling, but -- as I said, technically these
8 is we might tell them what size stability berm 8 levees -- this is an E-mail from headquarters.
9 we might need, and she might go back and say 9 MR. STONE:
10 your stability berm is just as -- you know, can 10 There's no question pending.
11 be the same thing as a wave berm. But they 11 EXAMINATION BY MR. BRUNO:
12 determine the wave berms, not geotechnical 12 Q. Yeah. What is the significance of the
13 engineers. 13 fact that they are calling them dams, if any,
14 Q. All right. And who is Janice Hote? 14 if you know?
15 A. She's a hydraulic engineer. 15 A. It looks like he's talking about trees
16 Q. Let me show you NED 17887. I'm 16 and wood vegetation penetration on a levee --
17 principally interested in learning where this 17 on the safety of earthen dams. Looks like
18 boring came from. (Tendering.) 18 they're talking about vegetation, you know, how
19 A. This boring looks like all the graving 19 close can trees and, um -- you know, brush can
20 site. 20 be next to your levee. Looks like mainly
21 Q. Where's that? 21 they're talking about tree stumps and trees.
22 A. It's most likely on the banks of the 22 Q. Okay. Thank you, sir.
23 GIWW by Paris Road bridge. 23 Let me show you -- and look, this
24 Q. Okay. 24 thing is stapled, I don't know why, but I'm
25 A. They have more or less -- this is a 25 just going to give it to you the way it comes
Page 146 Page 148
37 (Pages 145 to 148)

PINNER, RICHARD B.
7/17/2008
1 to me. MVD 7-1858 in seriatim to 1873. 1 MR. BRUNO:

2 (Tendering.) 2 I understand.
3 A. I'm not sure what this is. 3 EXAMINATION BY MR. BRUNO:
4 MR. STONE: 4 Q. Isn't that true?
5 This Post-it you have at the top, 5 A. Right now we're designing as levees.
6 is that the date of the document? 6 And that's all levees. We are using the
7 MR. BRUNO: 7 criteria. But like I said, the document speaks
8 It's the date of that page, 8 for itself. I'm not going to go into great
9 Richard. I don't want to trust -- 9 detail. I'm not sure who wrote that document,
10 look, it's somebody else's work, so 10 but it looks like from division, just based on
11 don't rely on it for anything. 11 that symbol on the bottom. Like I said, it
12 A. Looks like somebody writing and trying 12 opened the debate.
13 to answer a question, some of these levees 13 Q. Well, have you ever heard of this
14 should be designed as a dam instead of a levee. 14 debate. Has it occurred here in this --
15 EXAMINATION BY MR. BRUNO: 15 A. Yes.
16 Q. Well, I'm with you. But here's the 16 Q. It has. So you all talked about this.
17 question here: What is the relevance of 17 A. Right.
18 calling a levee a dam as opposed to a levee? 18 Q. Right? Well, why have you talked
19 A. Since we don't really have -- I 19 about it?
20 haven't designed that many dams, I don't know 20 A. I mean, some of these canals, somebody
21 all the details. I know sometimes you might 21 might consider it a dam.
22 use a slightly higher factor of safety for 22 Q. Okay.
23 global stability. I know that much. 23 A. And if it's a dam criteria versus
24 Q. All right. Well, it seems to 24 levees. We are designing for levees.
25 conclude, based upon the definition of levees 25 Q. Well, if it's considered to be a dam,
Page 149 Page 151
1 and dams included in EM 1110-2-1913, the 1 what does that do to your design?
2 federal guidelines for dam safety in the Dam 2 A. Like I said, I haven't really know all
3 Safety and Security Act of 2002, whether the 3 the details of dam design. I know we use a
4 structures in the New Orleans hurricane 4 slightly higher factor of safety for global
5 protection are levees or dams is not entirely 5 stability.
6 clear and is subject to debate. To state that 6 Q. All right. It does suggest, though,
7 the embankments and embankment/floodwall 7 does it not, that at least the engineering
8 combinations as a minimum are high hazard 8 manual that uses the words dams could be useful
9 levees and floodwalls, the failure of which 9 and provide guidance in connection with the
10 would result in significant loss of life or 10 design, maintenance and operation of levees in
11 property is not debatable. Design criteria, 11 this community, isn't that true?
12 type and quality of construction and operation 12 A. I'm not familiar with all the details
13 and maintenance procedures for these structures 13 of the EM for the dams.
14 should be consistent with the consequences of 14 Q. All right.
15 their failure. These measures are of far 15 A. And we are, you know, using a higher
16 greater importance than the terminology used to 16 factor of safety for our levees.
17 define the structures. 17 Q. Do you know whether or not there's
18 Now, that means, does it not, that at 18 been some determination by at least this
19 least as regards the engineering manual that 19 district office as to what the policy is going
20 the dam manual applies to levees in New 20 to be?
21 Orleans? 21 A. We do have design criteria out there.
22 MR. STONE: 22 It's on our website.
23 Objection. The document speaks 23 Q. Right. But it's levees not dams.
24 for itself and the witness may not 24 A. Right. Correct.
25 have personal knowledge of the intent. 25 Q. Right?
Page 150 Page 152
38 (Pages 149 to 152)

PINNER, RICHARD B.
7/17/2008
1 A. Correct. 1 we need in a certain location around -- that

2 Q. Does that mean, then, that somebody 2 might be around the Michoud, um -- flood
3 has decided the issue? 3 protection or the NOPSI power plant.
4 A. Well, headquarters -- 4 Q. Is a foreshore dike put in place for
5 Q. Or is it still undecided? 5 flood protection or is it put in place for
6 A. -- has given us guidance on how to 6 shore protection from waves?
7 design hurricane protection levees. Now, 7 A. To me, a foreshore dike is put in for
8 really, the hurricane whatever it is, risk 8 foreshore protection. For waves.
9 reduction system down here. And I don't think 9 Q. Which means?
10 they call them dams. 10 A. You know, low waves. That's why
11 Q. The decision as to what sheet pile 11 they're talking about elevation 4 or 5. And
12 length to use and logically what sheet pile tip 12 again, I guess if you need to elaborate on that
13 depth you ultimately get, is underseepage a 13 you can talk to a hydraulic engineer. That's
14 factor in determining what sheet pile tip depth 14 who supplied it to us again.
15 to use in any particular instance where you're 15 Q. All right. I show you MVD 7-3321. It
16 designing a sheet pile wall for flood 16 talks about an E-99 field test.
17 protection? 17 Can you tell me, if you know, what is
18 A. It's a case-by-case basis. It could 18 this E-mail about?
19 be, based on the foundation conditions. 19 A. Okay. I'm not sure unless I read this
20 Q. That's all I'm asking is whether it 20 whole thing.
21 could be. And it could be, right? 21 Q. You only need to read as much as you
22 A. Right. 22 need to read in order to tell me, if you can
23 Q. NED 17-1054 to 56, it talks about the 23 tell me, what it's all about.
24 need for a design wave. I wonder if you could 24 A. From reading part of the -- like this
25 help me with that. (Tendering.) 25 E-mail, it's talking about the I-wall criteria,
Page 153 Page 155
1 MR. STONE: 1 design of an I-wall based on our cantilevered

2 What is it you want him to help 2 sheet pile wall analysis versus a finite
3 you with? And the term seems to be 3 element analysis and how do they compare.
4 rock wave berm in the document. 4 Q. Well, do you know what they're doing
5 MR. BRUNO: 5 there? What's the discussion about?
6 No, the terms is what I said it 6 A. Discussion about is, you know, to
7 was; design wave. 7 double-check our design analysis for the sheet
8 EXAMINATION BY MR. BRUNO: 8 wall sheets.
9 Q. Do you know what a design wave is? 9 Q. Does it have anything to do with the
10 I'll show it to you. It says design wave. 10 length of sheet pile that should be used, sheet
11 A. I'm not sure if -- I guess that's a 11 pile tip depth, anything like that?
12 hydraulics term again. 12 A. Stability of the sheet pile, yes.
13 Q. That's fair enough. 13 Q. What was the conclusion?
14 A. And it looks like it's a foreshore 14 A. I didn't read the conclusion part of
15 dike along the bankline. 15 it.
16 Q. And this bank is the MRGO? 16 Q. Okay. What did you have to do with
17 A. No, it's more or less along GIWW. 17 this?
18 Q. Okay. 18 A. What I got to do with it? I guess I
19 A. That's Citrus back levee. 19 was on that E-mail chain. That might have came
20 Q. All right. Well, do you know why 20 through, like I said, being at T.F. Guardian at
21 you're being sent this? 21 that time frame.
22 A. As far as doing T.F. Guardian -- TFG, 22 Q. So that means that you really had
23 that's when we're doing repairs on the levee 23 nothing to do and played no role in --
24 system after the hurricane. And I must have 24 A. I more or less, you know, might have
25 asked for, hey, what type of foreshore dike do 25 looked at it, that finite element part of it.
Page 154 Page 156
39 (Pages 153 to 156)

PINNER, RICHARD B.
7/17/2008
1 And I don't know any finite elements myself. 1 Let's just mark it as one exhibit
2 Q. All right. Okay. Now, just to wrap 2 and have it all copied. And we'll
3 this thing up, I mean this -- I just want to 3 work it out.
4 reconfirm, this is the floodwall and levee 4 (Off the record.)
5 performance analysis by IPET. And once again, 5 MR. TREEBY:
6 you're listed as a member of the team. Your 6 This deposition is open.
7 testimony is that you really didn't perform as 7 MR. BRUNO:
8 a member of the team in the way that we usually 8 Yeah, it's open.
9 think of the word team -- 9 We're back on the record. Let me
10 A. Correct. 10 confirm that counsel wants to identify
11 Q. -- right? 11 this as in globo -- it will be marked
12 A. I more of less supplied them data. As 12 as In Globo No. 3.
13 far as analysis, they did the evaluation. I 13 (Exhibit Pinner No. 3 was marked for
14 didn't do the evaluation. 14 identification and is attached hereto.)
15 Q. Did you offer any opinions? 15 MR. BRUNO:
16 A. Opinions? I don't recall at this 16 And I think Bill had something to
17 time. Maybe. I mean, that's -- you're talking 17 say. It's not closed.
18 about -- over time, this is early on T.F. 18 MR. TREEBY:
19 Guardian, I most likely talked to them in the 19 The deposition is not closed. We
20 early 2005 and 2006 time frame. I presented 20 will reschedule the continuation of
21 them what we have here as far as our design 21 this deposition if we determine it's
22 criteria, our GDM and soil borings. 22 necessary. If not, we'll give notice
23 Q. I'm with you. You told me you 23 that we don't think it's necessary and
24 provided some factual information. But the 24 will make those arrangements with
25 question is, did you provide them with any 25 counsel for the plaintiffs and counsel
Page 157 Page 159
1 opinions? 1 for the Corps.

2 A. I would say no. Not how things 2 MR. BRUNO:
3 failed, no. 3 All right. And that was our
4 Q. Did you provide any critique of their 4 agreement.
5 work or their opinions? 5
6 A. I might have offered comments. Were 6
7 they accepted? Most likely not. 7
8 Q. Why do you say that? That's kind of 8
9 negative, man. You know, come on. 9
10 A. I mean, it's their report. Like I 10
11 said, we had so much other stuff going on, so I 11
12 didn't sit there and read the whole IPET 12
13 report. So what I commented on I couldn't tell 13
14 you at this time. 14
15 Q. Do I gather that really the two guys 15
16 in charge, Mosher and Duncan, they wrote the 16
17 report and everybody else was in a support 17
18 position? 18
19 A. I guess you have to ask them. I don't 19
20 know all the team members. Those are the 20
21 person I mainly dealt with, Mr. Reed Mosher. 21
22 Q. Okay. That's all I've got. Thank you 22
23 very much. 23
24 A. Okay. 24
25 MR. STONE: 25
Page 158 Page 160
40 (Pages 157 to 160)

PINNER, RICHARD B.
7/17/2008
1 WITNESS' CERTIFICATE
2
3 I, RICHARD B. PINNER, P.E., do
4 hereby certify that the foregoing testimony was
5 given by me, and that the transcription of said
6 testimony, with corrections and/or changes, if
7 any, is true and correct as given by me on the
8 aforementioned date.
9
10 ______________ _________________________
11 DATE SIGNED RICHARD B. PINNER, P.E.
12
13 _______ Signed with corrections as noted.
14
15 _______ Signed with no corrections noted.
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25 DATE TAKEN: July 17th, 2008
Page 161
1 REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE
2 I, JOSEPH A. FAIRBANKS, JR., CCR, RPR,
3 Certified Court Reporter in and for the State
4 of Louisiana, do hereby certify that the
5 aforementioned witness, after having been first
6 duly sworn by me to testify to the truth, did
7 testify as hereinabove set forth;
8 That said deposition was taken by me
9 in computer shorthand and thereafter
10 transcribed under my supervision, and is a true
11 and correct transcription to the best of my
12 ability and understanding.
13 I further certify that I am not of
14 counsel, nor related to counsel or the parties
15 hereto, and am in no way interested in the
16 result of said cause.
17
18
19
20
21
22
23 ____________________________________
24 JOSEPH A. FAIRBANKS, JR., CCR, RPR
25 CERTIFIED COURT REPORTER #75005
Page 162
41 (Pages 161 to 162)

PINNER, RICHARD B.
7/17/2008
Page 163
A 138:12 161:6 120:22 121:21 67:16,21 68:2

ability 90:11 aforementioned answer 5:13 123:6 143:13 68:3,6,14,17
111:23 113:1 5:4 161:8 6:21 7:13 31:3 areas 30:3 101:23
162:12 162:5 36:4,12,17 armoring 75:5,9 assessments
able 87:2 afterward 7:25 37:10 46:14 75:10,10,12 57:18 58:11
absolutely 70:16 age 33:11 47:14 50:8,13 76:22 86:2,4 59:12,21,22
71:8 aggravating 58:22 74:4 86:17 90:18 60:1,23 68:10
accept 64:16 29:4 84:9 118:17 Army 1:11 2:19 assigned 13:15
accepted 158:7 aggravation 149:13 11:3 48:1,6 13:17
access 16:22 29:2 answers 29:11 arrangements assignment
accomplished ago 22:13,13 61:16 159:24 11:22 14:6,8
138:14 43:13 112:21 anticipate 91:14 asked 7:12 18:15 assist 23:25
accurate 13:19 120:5 121:6 anticipating 55:25 58:19 80:20
16:6 72:17 130:19 136:1 144:3 63:5,10,11 assistant 116:22
accurately agree 48:13 87:3 anybody 48:2 81:4 85:17,22 assisting 133:11
102:12 143:3 95:15,19 96:21 56:8 65:25 96:18 105:24 assume 45:5
act 90:12 94:18 96:21 97:14,16 anymore 20:18 126:17 136:16 52:12 91:23
150:3 agreed 5:2 75:22 anyway 75:19 136:22 137:5 102:20 112:18
acting 123:15 agreeing 97:12 105:17 154:25 115:20 116:5
ACTION 1:4 agreement 160:4 apologize 12:14 asking 23:11 121:3 125:15
activities 27:21 alignment 80:5 apparently 36:9 71:15 132:23 136:21
31:10 80:19,21,25 108:23 119:8 72:24 78:13 assuming 115:9
activity 31:6 81:6,7,8,10,13 APPEARANC... 95:19 96:17 assumption
60:24 81:15,17 87:20 2:1 118:19,23 138:14
actors 60:14 122:6 125:9 appears 135:13 136:19 139:5 assure 75:18
acts 90:18 143:19 140:2 153:20 attach 73:8
123:16 alignments 81:1 appendix 41:12 assess 61:8 64:11 attached 70:23
actual 127:7 allow 17:4 applicant 42:13 64:14,15 71:7 93:17
add 89:25 alternate 127:13 applied 141:13 assessed 58:3 159:14
added 142:16 alternative applies 150:20 61:4 attaching 98:8
additional 43:6 113:3,5 114:12 appropriate assessing 61:2 100:8
address 26:9 alternatives 103:5 assessment attack 78:7
41:3 109:13 approve 64:25 35:13 38:23 90:22
adequate 39:23 AMERICA 2:9 Approved 102:3 39:9 41:4,21 attending
administering amount 82:3,22 approximately 41:25 42:2,14 102:16
5:24 analysis 38:25 53:16 42:15,18 43:2 August 111:5
ADRIAN 3:8 39:25 40:7 Architectural 43:4,5,10 authority 78:5
advice 80:23,24 43:1 52:23 139:12 46:19 47:17 137:19
81:11 68:2,21 96:11 area 25:12 30:6 49:1 57:5,6,17 authorization
advised 45:7,8 97:5,7,13,17 44:21,22 45:9 57:20,22 58:20 73:16 75:4
AE 132:5 139:9 97:24 103:22 52:20 53:1 60:6,10 62:17 77:3 78:23
139:12 105:2 106:17 56:9 61:15 62:23,24 63:4 125:14
affect 35:19,20 156:2,3,7 72:19 105:25 63:6,10,13,18 authorized
35:25 39:15 157:5,13 108:24 111:15 64:17 65:1,15 73:14,22,24
affirmatively analyze 104:15 112:3,23 115:4 65:22 66:16,16 74:15 76:22
44:16 46:21 and/or 37:3 118:1 119:18 66:18 67:6,10 77:6,9

PINNER, RICHARD B.
7/17/2008
Page 164
authorizing 90:12,18 142:18,21 147:5 157:22 36:10,14 37:7

125:4,6,11 based 39:12 44:1 143:9,25 144:1 borrow 108:2,3 37:12 39:3
available 22:9 45:10 50:6 144:6,13,23 borrowing 42:8 43:7
105:24 56:17 68:10 145:2,8,12 108:14 47:23 49:4,25
Avenue 1:12 80:12 81:14 146:8,10,11 bother 30:5 51:21 52:3
2:22 6:2 98:19 82:21 86:25 154:4 bottom 114:2 57:3,24 58:7
123:23 88:25 93:4 berms 92:22 144:22 151:11 58:14 59:1,4
aware 48:9 97:2,6,15,18 142:16 146:12 bouncing 53:9 59:14,19 60:19
49:20 75:17 113:8,17,25 Bernard 122:12 Box 2:14 61:13,19 65:18
115:21 117:16 best 46:13 84:9 brain 43:18 66:1,8,14
B 138:14 140:17 162:11 branch 2:11 67:13 69:15,22
B 1:10 4:6 6:1 144:1 145:9 Betsy 124:13,15 12:11 13:10,20 70:4,7,15 71:6
161:3,11 147:8,16 better 13:21 13:20,21,22,23 71:14,19,24
back 14:16,17 149:25 151:10 51:20 14:2,7,12,14 72:6,23 73:2
15:15,17 18:12 153:19 156:1 Bienvenue 14:20,24 20:17 76:12 82:11
20:17 21:10,25 basically 55:5 108:13 114:19 33:7,8,9 34:16 92:16 93:19
22:14 24:20 81:2,12 94:4 114:25 115:21 34:17,17,18 96:1,14 98:5
30:1,15 43:18 basis 54:17 119:19 142:19 53:17 54:11 98:10 100:3,12
45:23 75:6,20 81:15 153:18 143:14,16 116:18,21 100:17,24
76:1,23 79:10 Bates 69:16 98:7 big 70:9 75:15 117:3 119:3 101:5 103:9,15
85:24 86:2,17 141:19 142:11 114:10 138:10 103:19 106:4
90:15 97:3,4 battlefield 108:1 Bill 71:20 95:9 branches 34:24 107:3,8 114:17
101:3 106:16 Bayou 108:12 159:16 breach 95:13 123:10,20
106:18,19,25 114:19,25 billable 16:16 breached 72:11 131:7 148:11
107:7 113:21 115:21 119:18 billed 16:4 95:24 97:8 149:7,15 151:1
123:12 126:20 142:19,19 billion 59:20 breaches 1:4 151:3 154:5,8
128:13 130:20 143:7,13,16 bit 11:13 18:19 72:15 76:3,5 159:7,15 160:2
132:24 137:2 BCG 131:18 54:9 73:5 breaching 72:13 brush 118:3
142:14 146:9 133:23 139:7 101:4 106:24 72:18 96:3 148:19
154:19 159:9 140:7,14 112:2,21 break 131:6 BS 8:15
backfill 64:6 BEARDEN 3:2 123:24 130:19 breaks 44:14 budget 133:10
128:8,9,11,15 Beatty 122:11 blank 91:8 bridge 108:17 133:12,14,15
backfilled 37:3 Becnel 109:25 board 27:18 114:25 146:23 budgeting 132:2
backfilling becoming 72:13 28:7 43:20,23 bridges 54:18 budgets 140:21
129:25 begins 104:14 44:3 45:12,17 Brief 57:2 build 73:24
bank 44:8,21 belief 123:1 46:1,2,6 briefly 105:18 74:15 77:8,9
52:25 56:1,8 believe 7:1 28:9 147:14 broad 30:25 77:18,19,22,23
63:22 88:18 57:8 96:18 Board's 45:5 36:3 49:3 77:24 78:6,17
92:20 130:21 Benjamin 2:15 bold 70:9 broadcast 30:8 79:6 80:7 83:4
134:9 147:22 berm 36:20,21 book 69:9 broken 58:15 84:19 85:3,4
154:16 88:18 91:10,18 Borgne 122:3 Bruno 2:3,3,4 85:17 91:7
bankline 92:2 92:22,23,25 boring 146:18 4:5 6:6,8 8:5,8 93:10,21 94:14
154:15 93:4,5,8,9,9,11 146:19 147:6,7 18:4 28:20,25 110:6 111:25
banks 119:15 93:21,21 94:18 borings 80:14 29:7,21,24 122:14 147:1,3
146:22 112:1 117:16 107:19,21,24 30:12,14 31:1 building 60:4
Baronne 2:5 118:12 142:15 108:3,20,22 31:15,17 36:5 80:6 83:4
barrier 76:7

PINNER, RICHARD B.
7/17/2008
Page 165
109:14 139:2 car 54:24 115:25 11:9 20:1 comes 19:13,18

built 77:19 82:18 career 79:16 changed 15:18 21:20 30:2 36:19 68:9,16
88:2,6 89:4,7 careful 28:13 15:20 22:24 33:8 34:16 79:12 107:19
124:17 carefully 96:16 55:7 114:12 48:5,7 57:12 116:10 148:25
bunch 104:12 case 17:19,20 changes 23:7 140:22 coming 84:12
132:11 134:18 70:17 85:7,10 161:6 CL 111:12 117:7 110:7
147:19 85:11,12,13 changing 125:9 117:18,19,20 commentary
business 8:19 134:14 141:13 channel 88:17 Claiborne 44:11 30:10
33:25 41:3 cases 65:11 80:7 88:20 89:11,14 clarify 32:25 commented
43:13 47:16 81:24 120:9 90:1 117:22 59:3 158:13
businesses 134:8 case-by-case 119:15 131:4,5 classify 109:2 comments 45:25
138:6 139:5 37:9 81:15 channels 89:1 Claude 102:7 158:6
Bywater 102:7 153:18 132:17,20 133:25 134:1 Committee
catastrophic 139:11 clay 126:4,7 102:4
C 72:13 charge 14:14 128:20 130:3 communicated
cabinet 24:21 cause 88:19 31:23 46:25 clays 128:22 91:7
Caernarvon 123:5 162:16 120:16 158:16 clear 58:21 community
142:14 caused 48:10 charged 119:24 110:23 150:6 152:11
cage 85:8 CCR 1:24 5:22 119:25 120:8 close 60:6 64:20 Community-B...
calculations 162:2,24 120:12 139:25 88:21 112:22 102:3
89:8,9 CEL 117:8 141:14 148:19 compacted
call 14:18 39:22 CELMN 117:6 charges 119:23 closed 159:17,19 126:3,4
46:10 47:4 center 90:2 140:18,20,20 closer 111:11 companies 139:9
51:3 81:12,19 105:8 117:20 Charles 109:7,9 112:2 compare 156:3
81:20 89:25 117:23 109:14,19 closure 122:7 competing 115:8
95:5 105:1 certain 24:5 110:2 125:2,10 clue 118:21 complete 18:16
128:23 129:4 27:21 41:1 chart 12:15 code 140:16 133:15
132:6 137:12 71:8 74:16 103:4 cofferdams 61:5 complex 98:19
153:10 86:23 143:24 check 97:4 61:6,8 101:11
called 13:22 144:1,2 155:1 chief 14:20,21 Col 122:11 component 39:8
72:22 101:23 certainly 30:1 19:15 34:12,23 cold 56:17 120:20
128:7 144:6 77:7,12 135:16 45:8 50:15 Colletti 26:11 composite 142:2
calling 148:13 CERTIFICATE 54:3,5 55:15 46:13 142:9
149:18 161:1 162:1 103:2,6 116:17 column 126:13 computer 16:21
calls 50:4 76:10 Certified 1:25 116:21,22 129:16 16:23 17:13
122:2 5:23 162:3,25 119:2 columns 125:24 162:9
canal 1:4 125:25 certify 161:4 chiefs 34:16 combinations concerned 87:17
130:21 162:4,13 choose 80:18 150:8 concerns 114:14
canals 148:1 cetera 40:6 146:4 come 19:14,15 conclude 13:25
151:20 chain 156:19 choosing 80:20 34:9 42:21 149:25
cantilevered Chalmette 108:1 citizen 110:11 56:3 74:25 conclusion
156:1 115:4 143:13 citrus 106:16,18 79:10 92:25 156:13,14
CAP 96:10 97:7 chance 13:4 106:19,25 93:2 132:6 concrete 99:12
capacity 17:4 change 7:12 18:8 130:20 154:19 135:24 136:16 142:7
20:19 63:9 18:9 81:17 civil 1:4 2:11 5:6 136:23 137:2,6 condition 39:13
98:20 99:9 114:3,5,10 8:15,22 9:3,7 147:7 158:9 40:1 90:25
101:8,9,12

PINNER, RICHARD B.
7/17/2008
Page 166
131:5 90:22 151:21 114:19 119:16 112:24 114:9 150:11 151:7

conditions 37:9 considerations 119:17 116:8 119:2 151:23 152:21
37:11,18,22 85:24 86:1 conversation 120:5 127:6 155:25 157:22
80:13,15 83:10 considered 27:1 128:25 137:22 critical 68:24
87:1 90:13 83:25 151:25 copied 33:16 139:14,20 critique 158:4
94:20 99:6 considers 85:14 159:2 141:16 143:18 Cross 102:6
117:17 118:15 consistent 77:3 copies 24:13,16 143:22 145:5 cross-sections
118:20 131:1 140:20 141:10 copy 24:15,17 152:24 153:1 117:15
153:19 150:14 70:13 73:7 157:10 161:7 cross-training
conduct 48:19 CONSOLIDA... 100:13,15 162:11 20:21
48:21 62:3 1:5 103:10 corrections 7:23 crown 142:22
126:2 construction Corps 1:11 2:19 161:6,13,15 145:13
conducted 20:6 12:22 13:3 2:20 9:13,24 corresponded curious 17:15
57:9 25:18 41:10,12 11:2,3,14,16 105:3 99:8 109:16
conducting 65:3,3,7 87:19 11:18 12:2 cost 115:7 111:3 115:5
25:14 88:1,12 127:24 17:4 18:3 131:20 136:11 119:6 124:21
conductive 128:1 138:15 21:19 26:15 136:16,19,23 125:12,18
127:18 138:16,23 46:4 48:1,6 136:24 137:6 current 121:22
conducts 126:24 139:3,4 147:13 57:21,22,23 counsel 2:20 5:3 curve 101:9,9,12
configuration 150:12 58:3 60:15 7:5,6 159:10 C/L 117:20,21
145:9 contact 45:17 61:7,22 62:1,3 159:25,25
confirm 87:15 contemplate 63:24 64:10 162:14,14 D
137:8 159:10 47:11 83:16 67:3,9 68:5 count 21:12,13 D 3:5,11 4:1,6
confuse 66:12 contemplated 73:14,16,24 118:14,20 dam 41:14
confused 43:19 99:18 121:9 102:10 113:1 counting 112:2 149:14,18
60:24 61:11 123:12 121:9 139:16 couple 13:7 150:2,2,20
66:2 82:1 content 61:15 160:1 20:15 91:23 151:21,23,25
confusing 66:7 context 35:5,18 correct 10:13 course 9:20,21 152:3
116:9 59:7,16 61:18 11:8 12:5,20 19:7 38:4 60:4 damage 48:2
Congress 73:14 76:2 95:2 14:25 15:13 63:25 86:8 dams 15:4,8
73:21,24 77:4 118:11 125:19 16:7 19:2,11 120:6 25:22,23,24,25
77:5,9,18,21 continuation 20:8 23:10,13 courses 8:18,19 26:1,4,6 148:2
79:13 86:10 159:20 31:20 32:8,9 court 1:1,25 148:13,17
125:16 contract 139:15 33:3 35:1,23 5:23 7:15 149:20 150:1,5
Congressional 139:16,19,19 40:8 53:5 50:25 162:3,25 152:8,13,23
78:22 140:1 55:16,19 56:5 courteous 29:8 153:10
connected 131:4 contracting 64:1 56:25 57:7 29:10 Dan 116:19,23
131:16 contribute 89:11 62:6 64:18 cover 39:7 41:11 118:23
connection 9:2 control 34:8 71:5 74:11,17 41:14 65:19 Daniel 116:17
53:1 121:11 35:6 36:1 37:4 74:20 79:15 covered 66:6 DARCY 3:4
141:20,22 39:16 43:2 83:8 85:15 crazy 95:20 data 43:6 104:25
152:9 48:11,18 49:14 86:15,19 87:6 114:11 105:21,22,23
consequences 50:5 59:24 89:6 91:16 create 78:23 105:24 157:12
150:14 60:12 61:23 94:7 97:11 102:23 date 149:6,8
consider 40:1 62:5 67:22 98:18 105:10 created 67:9,10 161:8,11,25
52:13 89:10 93:1 99:21 111:1,20 criteria 105:22 dated 111:4
142:25

PINNER, RICHARD B.
7/17/2008
Page 167
dates 121:18 19:4,16 20:7 80:1,3,11,12 41:24 115:24 155:4,7

124:12 27:4,17 31:19 80:15,24 81:7 145:7 152:18 dikes 92:9,18
day 16:24 47:5,6 31:22 32:4,7 81:16 83:7,15 determine 35:12 direct 45:17
DDR 147:16 32:14,15,18 84:25 85:6,7,7 61:3 104:17 directional
deal 50:11 33:2,5,8,13,17 85:17,18,22 109:3 117:15 101:15
dealing 55:22 34:2,3,4,7,13 86:11,12 87:14 120:11,14,18 directly 19:16
107:25 122:8 34:14,16 42:2 90:21 95:11,16 144:25 146:12 32:21
131:18 46:16,24,25 96:5,8,19,22 159:21 directory 102:25
deals 107:24 47:2,3,9 50:2 96:24 98:23 determined dirt 68:17
dealt 158:21 50:10 57:10,11 99:16 109:18 96:11 97:6 disagree 97:14
debatable 60:17 63:8 109:23 111:9 determining disasters 11:25
150:11 64:3,4 65:9,12 112:19 114:4,6 99:5 153:14 discussed 102:9
debate 115:6 74:24 78:2 114:10 116:17 develop 133:10 102:20 144:7
150:6 151:12 80:18 132:2 116:21,24 136:11 discussion 35:10
151:14 137:8,11 145:6 119:2 121:1 developing 156:5,6
decide 7:25 departments 125:7,8,13,20 133:11 distance 27:21
19:23 92:25 12:22 13:6 135:24 138:25 Development 31:8 37:1
decided 153:3 19:9 139:11 140:15 105:7 89:24 111:12
decides 120:16 depending 20:9 142:25 144:19 devote 17:22 distinction
decision 120:7 33:12 83:3 145:16,20,21 dialogue 61:20 129:12 130:15
137:9 144:23 86:21 92:10 150:11 152:1,3 difference 58:4 distributed
153:11 depends 86:6 152:10,21 67:18 83:21 16:17
DECKER 3:4 92:5 153:7,24 154:7 different 10:4,8 district 1:1,2,12
deep 25:19 36:25 deponent 5:10 154:9,10 156:1 12:9 18:25 11:17 12:3,16
38:15 42:23 deposition 1:10 156:7 157:21 25:17 26:3 27:2 48:16
64:6 5:4,14 6:9,11 designed 58:2 58:10 60:14 140:4 152:19
defective 87:14 7:22 159:6,19 61:6 72:11 61:17 82:14 districts 122:9
define 150:17 159:21 162:8 75:1,8,23 84:2 86:3 division 2:11
definition depositions 19:8 76:16 79:16,22 126:11 132:10 19:20,21 27:20
149:25 DEPO-VUE 83:23 87:4 134:2 135:10 27:22 28:8
degree 8:15,21 3:14 112:4 119:20 142:1 31:9 32:22
8:24 9:2 26:2 depth 153:13,14 119:21 122:19 differential 86:1 33:1,20,20,22
47:16 76:22 156:11 149:14,20 dig 32:13 46:18 33:23 34:1
DELORIMIER describe 82:3 designing 84:15 64:5 47:25 65:3,3,8
3:14 91:13 84:22,23 151:5 digging 36:25 105:6 116:23
demo 147:21 described 37:1 151:24 153:16 42:22 47:11 118:25 136:21
demolish 44:19 41:5,21 43:12 designs 78:3 56:8 59:7 136:22,24,25
demolishing describes 68:11 81:14 84:24 68:16 137:1,13,15
139:4 descriptor 110:8 121:13 dike 91:10,18,22 138:10,11
demolition 32:3 132:18 121:14 124:16 111:11,23 139:6 151:10
134:7 138:5 design 18:18 detail 91:24 112:1,3,5,6,13 divisions 48:15
department 2:10 24:5 25:18 92:24 133:15 112:19 113:18 DL 117:9
10:17,19,21 41:9 65:16 134:23 151:9 113:19,23 dock 134:12
12:19 13:1,16 73:6,10 75:5 details 149:21 114:1,3,6 document 98:3
13:18 14:3 76:19 77:1,8 152:3,12 119:19,22 98:12,16 100:1
16:3 18:25 78:9 79:14,19 determination 154:15,25 102:1,5 103:20

PINNER, RICHARD B.
7/17/2008
Page 168
104:12 107:14 earth 88:17 150:1 152:13 41:21 42:1 ESQ 3:2,3,4,5,8
108:5 110:13 93:15 94:5 embankments 46:16,19 47:3 3:9,10,11
114:18 116:11 earthen 93:9,10 150:7 47:17 48:7,8 ESQUIRE 2:4
116:12,13 93:11 94:3 embankment/f... 52:10,14,17 2:12,13,21
125:4,6 127:3 142:18 148:17 150:7 54:2,10 57:5 estimate 18:14
131:12,17 easier 18:5 embarrass 51:14 57:10 59:12,20 18:17,20
133:8 139:22 127:10 employed 9:13 59:22 60:1,6 131:20 132:7
141:18 144:8 easily 126:2 9:20 11:3,16 60:10,16 61:9 136:17,20,23
149:6 150:23 127:21 11:18 55:5 63:17 65:7,8 137:6
151:7,9 154:4 east 44:8,21 employees 16:2 65:12 66:18 estimates 136:12
documents 98:1 52:25 56:1,8 16:12,18 67:6,21 68:5 et 40:6
100:10 106:6 63:21 95:14 employer 10:10 74:7 80:18 evaluate 63:5,9
107:18 131:15 122:12 133:25 employment 105:7 116:23 64:11 104:23
doing 55:4 60:15 134:7,9,11 9:16,17 21:6 116:25 117:2 evaluation 38:13
64:15 65:23 138:6 139:4 EMs 24:21 79:22 118:6,25 119:7 48:20 50:3
101:9 105:2 EASTERN 1:2 encounter 48:17 132:1,2 136:22 56:1 62:3 65:7
119:19 121:13 easy 11:15 encroachment 136:23 137:8 65:14 67:3
137:15 145:18 EDDG 138:17 112:25 113:6 137:14 138:9 68:19 97:22
147:13 154:22 edge 117:25 engineer 11:9 138:10,24 120:21 141:23
154:23 156:4 118:1 12:8 19:24,25 139:6,13 141:4 157:13,14
doors 60:5 education 8:14 20:1,2 38:11 144:24 145:3,6 evaluations
double-check ED-G 138:7,9 48:5 55:6 147:13 150:19 66:17
156:7 effective 141:2 57:12,13 77:24 152:7 everybody 24:17
drainage 125:25 effort 20:6 138:4 84:10 91:3,5 engineers 1:11 27:15 28:9
drains 127:5 138:6 116:24 118:14 2:19,20 11:4 107:23 158:17
dream 78:21 eighties 8:19,20 118:19 136:24 15:12,23,23,24 evidence 5:15
driers 130:8 15:16,17 137:4 140:23 26:15 48:1,6 evil 51:23
driving 102:21 either 40:4 66:12 141:2 144:10 57:6 61:22 exactly 40:14
115:2,18 81:2 103:6 145:1,25 65:10 79:8 78:20 102:19
due 111:9 elaborate 155:12 146:15 155:13 139:17 146:13 102:20 108:2
dug 45:9 element 156:3 engineering 8:16 entire 11:17 114:23
duly 6:4 162:6 156:25 8:23 9:7 10:17 55:20 100:9 EXAMINATI...
Duncan 158:16 elements 157:1 10:22 12:19 entirely 98:9 4:3 6:6 8:8
Dupre 110:20 elevation 74:9 13:1,16,18 150:5 18:4 29:24
142:19 143:7 80:6,11 81:22 14:2 16:3 19:9 entitled 103:21 30:14 31:1,17
143:14,16 82:2,8,9 111:9 19:15,20 21:18 entrance 40:14 36:5,14 37:12
duration 86:6,22 141:21 142:21 21:20,21 22:11 entry 12:7 39:3 42:8 43:7
Dutch 94:23,25 142:23 143:9 23:20,24 24:24 environmental 47:23 49:4,25
duties 11:21 145:12,15 25:2,3,13 26:1 15:24 138:1 52:3 57:3
53:18 155:11 26:6 27:4,16 equation 75:3 58:14 59:4,19
DUVAL 1:6 elevations 74:6 27:22 28:8 ERDC 104:25 61:19 66:14
D.C 2:16 80:8,10 32:21 33:2,5,8 105:5,6 67:13 69:22
Elmer 136:13,15 33:16,20,22,23 eroded 87:9 70:7 72:6 73:2
E else's 63:9 34:4,7,13 erosion 92:1 76:12 82:11
E 3:2 4:1,1,6,6 149:10 35:18 38:22,25 113:22 92:16 93:19
early 8:18 21:5 EM 24:6 41:14 39:9 41:3,4,12 especially 92:1 96:1,14 98:10
99:3 157:18,20

PINNER, RICHARD B.
7/17/2008
Page 169
101:5 103:19 121:17 135:11 92:21 99:25 142:21 145:13 65:2 101:23
106:4 107:8 141:23 103:8 154:13 fell 96:19 102:1 103:25
114:17 123:10 expect 6:14 FAIRBANKS fellas 49:13 111:17 115:16
123:20 131:7 32:17 127:9 1:24 5:22 FEMA 11:24 131:22 143:2
148:11 149:15 experience 162:2,24 field 8:25 9:10 162:5
151:3 154:8 10:18,20 23:16 fairness 56:16 18:17 22:19,20 fiscal 133:17,19
examined 6:5 75:7 124:15 104:9 23:16 24:23,23 133:20 139:1
example 16:20 experiences 13:5 fall 15:6 60:5 155:16 five 25:4,5 42:23
19:14,17 25:15 expert 52:14,19 familiar 44:22 fields 52:16 flat 15:22
38:17 40:5 72:22 69:3 121:16 fifteen 16:15 float 147:2
61:4,5,8 68:13 expertise 9:9 124:24 140:21 fifty 25:8 flood 27:6,21
94:15,16 134:1 48:7 74:21 152:12 figure 38:11 30:22 34:8
135:16 explain 18:22 familiarizing 46:3 49:17 35:6,14,20,25
examples 36:8 35:17 21:18 116:14 123:14 37:4 39:16
excavate 48:18 explanation 7:2 far 16:14 22:14 filed 50:24 40:3 42:4
excavating explore 61:14,17 22:18 53:18 fill 109:4 115:25 47:12 48:2,10
48:10 eyes 64:21 74:23 79:22 116:1 129:25 48:18 49:14
excavation E&D 138:16 80:8 87:17 130:3,10,12 50:5 59:8,23
30:21 35:13,25 E-mail 33:11,15 98:14 100:8 filled 116:4 60:12 61:23
38:2,2,5,24 143:10,15 105:2 112:3 127:7,8 62:5,18 67:22
42:3 47:22 148:8 155:18 125:21 150:15 final 43:23 46:2 89:1 91:1
62:14 68:4,6 155:25 156:19 154:22 157:13 81:18 148:6 93:23,25 99:19
excavations 27:6 E-99 155:16 157:21 finally 13:15 99:20 104:16
32:19 33:25 fastest 134:25 find 24:6 37:16 114:13 122:15
34:8 35:5 F fault 50:23 37:25 46:4 122:19,20,24
48:17 50:4 F 93:24 feature 112:10 95:9 124:2 133:1,3
52:23 62:4 fact 27:5 43:8 125:21 Findings 69:19 142:22 143:21
67:21 46:4,17 56:7 features 123:16 70:8 145:13 153:16
Excel 17:2,3,5 57:6 61:21 February 10:5,5 fine 31:16 56:12 155:2,5
exception 95:10 118:10 127:13 federal 5:6 150:2 58:6,16 92:17 floodwall 44:25
Excuse 94:24 148:13 feel 21:1 106:23 107:16 45:3 82:15
Executive 69:18 factor 39:23 feet 31:6,8 35:6 138:3 103:21 157:4
101:24 149:22 152:4 36:25 37:1 fines 128:18 floodwalls
exhibit 4:8,9,10 152:16 153:14 38:2,5,15 42:4 129:6 104:16 132:16
4:11 70:22 factual 157:24 42:11,22,23 finish 28:18,21 132:20 139:11
93:16 100:10 failed 158:3 47:12 48:10,18 29:5,11 53:7 147:21 150:9
100:16,23 failure 26:9 95:5 48:25 49:2,14 finished 32:8 Florida 44:11
101:4 159:1,13 95:16,16 96:5 50:4 59:8,23 72:4 98:19
exist 78:14 96:9,20,22 60:11 62:5,14 finite 156:2,25 flow 85:2 86:6
existed 22:4 150:9,15 62:18 67:22 157:1 125:25 127:20
existence 23:19 failures 95:11 78:18 83:23,24 firm 139:13 flowing 83:20
existing 40:1 96:24 83:24 90:1,1 first 6:4,10 9:12 84:8
99:20 113:9,11 fair 9:5,9 13:24 111:11,11,12 13:2 18:3 22:3 folks 17:4 27:13
117:17 133:4 17:12 24:11 111:19 113:11 28:8 40:15 30:17 51:2,7
exit 39:18,23 46:15 47:15 113:15,18 41:18 44:24 132:1 140:3
expansion 73:3 81:9 115:2 117:25 45:10 64:21 following 122:6
86:16 90:5

PINNER, RICHARD B.
7/17/2008
Page 170
follows 6:5 72:9 full-time 9:15,17 20:2 22:19 93:22 97:3,4 84:25 85:12
foot 68:17 funding 134:15 24:24 25:3,13 97:25 101:3 111:9
foregoing 161:4 further 101:25 27:14 33:18 107:22 127:9 Graded 84:25
foreshore 162:13 34:18 48:8 128:12 129:6 gradient 39:18
111:10,13,22 future 83:5 88:6 50:16 52:10,14 137:10 146:9 39:23
111:22 119:14 FY 138:16 52:17 53:11,11 151:8 graduate 8:17
119:19,22 54:2 55:6 goes 27:19 85:5 grass 75:10,12
120:19 121:2 G 81:14 121:13 132:13,19 75:16,19 76:7
154:14,25 Galvez 135:1 121:14 137:4 going 25:15 27:5 76:24 86:17,18
155:4,7,8 games 62:25 146:12 27:25 29:13,16 86:20 90:18
forget 86:9 GARDNER 3:9 getting 20:21 31:3,5 32:13 graving 146:19
107:13 GASPARD 3:10 30:15 52:5 32:19 33:5,14 147:8
forgot 7:20 gather 74:12 137:20 40:23 42:3,18 great 134:23
form 5:12 7:10 98:15 158:15 GILLEY 3:14 42:24 45:9 151:8
22:10 75:10 GDM 125:5 give 6:13 18:14 51:3,19,20 greater 90:6
formalities 5:8 157:22 18:19 24:9 52:6 59:7 60:5 150:16
forth 162:7 GDMs 105:25 25:14 34:14 62:14,21 64:5 Grieshaber
forty 136:1,8 general 9:3 53:22,23 58:25 64:6,8,12 102:10
forward 46:1 11:19 24:23 59:15 64:8,22 69:11 73:7 ground 44:20
137:10 27:1 54:10 64:23 65:8,11 78:17 84:7 67:17 83:12
found 96:10 66:20 105:21 68:13 71:22 87:24 92:7,14 117:17 125:24
foundation 37:9 106:7 124:23 80:22,24 81:4 98:3,6 100:1 group 14:9
37:11,17,21,24 125:7,13 129:1 91:20,24 92:24 100:25 101:1 15:25 19:5,8
37:25 80:13,15 129:9,12,22 94:15,16 103:3 101:22 106:5 19:19,22 44:18
83:10 95:5,11 130:15 131:22 144:17 148:4 107:7,14 52:24 54:12,15
96:24 99:5,6 131:24 132:18 148:25 159:22 124:23 131:11 54:16 55:9
99:10,11 137:17 138:9 given 1:11 6:10 131:21 132:7 64:1,3 71:9
101:20 130:25 generally 21:20 24:14 85:8 133:16 135:25 77:21
131:4 153:19 27:13 39:7 153:6 161:5,7 136:7 145:19 GS 140:5,8
foundations 40:20 76:2 gives 66:22 147:3 148:25 Guardian
15:3 25:20,20 92:9 107:18 GIWW 106:20 151:8 152:19 154:22 156:20
54:6 55:13,18 129:2 130:10 107:1 108:15 158:11 157:19
56:3 103:2 gentleman 6:15 146:23 154:17 good 6:7 9:12 guess 11:15
four 72:15 95:10 geologists 15:24 glad 31:16 12:6 23:5 13:11 15:2
95:12 geology 15:5 global 39:1,5 30:13 64:24 17:11 18:13
frame 12:10 geometry 91:20 66:17,21 68:1 70:17 73:4 19:18 22:2
23:5 103:7 geotech 12:10 68:15,21 84:17 government 7:5 23:4 26:14
135:20 156:21 13:10 14:20 149:23 152:4 50:24 132:7 32:5 46:12
157:20 15:6 20:17 globo 159:11,12 140:10 51:17 52:4
Franklin 2:15 28:8 33:9 go 18:12 20:16 governmental 53:16,25 54:1
frankly 61:15 53:15,17 137:3 21:10 25:11,15 140:11 58:13 66:20
free 84:8 geotechnical 9:4 32:13 33:6,25 gradation 67:15 68:8
frequency 54:20 9:7 10:22 38:18 40:21 127:19,21 75:7 77:11
front 90:16 94:5 13:10,17,20 45:16,23 53:12 128:4,12 80:21 85:2
97:16 143:25 14:2,12,14 53:13 58:13 grade 80:11 82:9 92:23 108:1,8
full 96:12 15:9,11,22 65:2 83:7,17 82:13,17,25 108:14 109:20
18:17 19:24

PINNER, RICHARD B.
7/17/2008
Page 171
112:9,16 113:8 24:13,15 58:25 hint 24:10 150:4 153:7,8 impacting 89:14
113:20 120:17 71:18,22 history 105:21 154:24 impacts 102:8,9
121:17,25 hazard 150:8 HLP 111:9,16 hurricanes 40:5 impair 111:23
122:8 124:4 head 25:6 33:16 HOGAN 3:3 hydraulic 74:7 impairing 113:1
129:10 130:25 33:17 90:4 holding 36:21 84:10 91:5,24 implying 51:23
131:3 133:2 96:12 110:3 hole 32:13 36:25 92:24 118:13 importance
135:19,20 122:11 123:17 37:2 38:15 118:19 144:9 47:16 150:16
136:5 138:23 headquarters 40:21 42:22 145:1,3,25 important 6:18
139:4,10 141:2 148:8 153:4 46:18 64:6 146:15 155:13 48:14 49:11
146:3 147:16 heads 148:4 126:14 147:3 hydraulics 74:4 improper 76:19
154:11 155:12 hear 43:17 holes 45:9 47:11 74:6,10,24 inches 67:17
156:18 158:19 heard 13:22 39:5 47:18,21 56:1 82:24 83:18 include 21:18
guessing 52:9 121:20 151:13 56:8 59:7,23 90:24,25 94:2 33:15 75:5
guidance 24:15 hearing 59:2 60:11 127:7 117:12,13 83:2 85:24,25
152:9 153:6 heave 66:23 Holy 102:6 118:7,25 89:8
guidelines 16:14 heavy 103:16 hope 130:11 121:25 144:25 included 115:4,7
27:2 62:7,9,11 height 74:6,16 hopefully 83:13 154:12 150:1
150:2 74:18 82:3,20 horizontal hydrostatic includes 118:24
guy 80:4 105:12 84:19,24 93:1 101:18 142:23 96:12 increased 123:5
105:14 107:21 93:3 111:18 145:14 hypothetical independent
107:22 110:6 144:2,18 Hote 146:14 37:6,14 38:21 97:22,23
118:6,7 held 75:24 Hotes 145:24 indicate 129:20
guys 46:9 49:13 help 19:12 25:13 hour 16:16 I indicated 6:8
49:20 50:9 51:20 53:24 hourly 139:24 idea 20:22 70:17 75:22
80:2 81:10 91:2 153:25 140:2,3,9 95:1 126:1 Indicating 69:4
82:21 104:13 154:2 hours 17:21 138:1,13 93:15 94:3
119:7 158:15 helped 11:24 141:13 identification 96:25 109:21
helpful 14:10 housing 102:8 70:23 93:17 indication 51:2
H hereinabove Housing-Lower 159:14 indirect 141:3
H 4:6 117:12 162:7 102:6 identified 108:6 industrial 44:21
half 13:13,14 hereto 5:3 70:23 HPO 122:10 139:23 52:25 56:2,9
14:8 16:15 93:17 159:14 huh 103:11 identify 15:1 63:22
54:14 55:4 162:15 hundred 25:7,7 118:10 159:10 influence 88:22
77:19 hey 49:13 154:25 hurricane 23:2,7 IHNC 44:6,9 124:15
handle 85:23 high 40:4,5,22 31:4,7 54:1 95:13 98:25 information
86:18,20,23 47:15 78:18 73:11 74:1,2,5 106:13,14,19 26:7 56:7
91:10 101:13 82:17 83:4 74:14,19 76:3 122:21 134:20 62:13 80:1
handled 138:7 94:14 123:11 90:13,23 92:15 135:3,8 147:1 83:7 87:19
handling 122:11 150:8 94:19 104:18 147:7,15 91:6 105:20
handwritten higher 40:10,10 110:24 111:8 III 3:2 106:1 118:24
17:13,14 40:17,23 75:24 111:16 115:10 imagine 134:8 121:23 133:11
happen 16:25 85:3 149:22 118:15,20 impact 35:11,13 157:24
happened 76:3 152:4,15 119:16 120:1 35:15,17 36:22 initial 121:17
107:24 108:1 highlight 95:7,8 123:14,14,15 37:3,23 38:3,6 input 81:4
108:19 highlighted 72:9 123:16 124:13 38:8,12 39:20 insert 16:24
happens 51:15 115:20 124:15,16,18 42:25 49:1 insofar 65:6 78:2
hard 22:13 64:12 102:21

PINNER, RICHARD B.
7/17/2008
Page 172
inspect 54:16 Ironically 72:10 jumping 44:5 48:16,20 49:23 144:6 146:10
inspection 14:9 issue 23:25 junction 108:24 50:2,11,18 147:18,22
14:9 15:25 49:20 65:19 junk 103:11 51:10,17 52:5 148:14,18,19
42:21 54:12,15 120:15,18 JUSTICE 2:10 53:7 54:19 148:24 149:20
inspections 144:24 153:3 55:14 56:13 149:21,23
54:20,22 55:4 issues 21:20 25:3 K 58:4,8 59:15 152:2,3,15,17
install 99:19 52:19,21 138:1 Katrina 1:4 23:2 61:7 66:3,15 154:9,20
installation items 39:10,21 23:12 76:4 66:23 67:23 155:10,17
10:24 119:14 I-DEP 3:7 104:18 69:12 70:18 156:4,6,24
instance 153:15 I-wall 99:9 keep 16:3 17:5 71:12 72:14 157:1 158:9,20
instruct 16:12 111:14 114:8 17:16,22 30:1 73:9,20,20 knowing 37:11
65:25 143:25 144:12 81:23 82:4,22 74:1,13,14 76:15 77:16
integrity 35:19 155:25 156:1 82:25 83:23 75:7,11,16 knowledge
35:22,25 36:22 I-walls 142:20 120:3 122:21 76:16 77:5,13 45:11,15 50:6
37:4 39:16 143:24,24 134:16 78:7 79:1,2,3,4 87:19 102:14
61:23 64:13 144:15 Kelly 105:4 79:5,6,23,24 121:21 150:25
142:10 I-2 70:3 71:2 kept 123:12 79:25 80:12,14 known 27:13,15
intended 62:4 I-3 70:6 71:3 Kerns 117:4,9 81:21 83:22 knows 20:4,5
intent 46:18 117:10 84:15 87:23,25 28:10 42:2
48:17 51:24 J key 74:9 88:12,16 91:21 71:9
150:25 J 3:9 kind 14:11 66:4 93:6 94:9 K2 1:5
interest 9:2,6 Janet 145:24 76:6 129:21 95:18,23,23
61:22 137:20 Janice 146:14 140:24 144:4 96:9,15 97:8 L
interested 23:8 JENNIFER 2:21 158:8 97:13 99:6,9 L 5:1
72:7 146:17 jerk 71:23 kinds 58:10 99:17,23 100:4 LABOURDE...
148:4 162:15 Jerry 26:11,13 66:15 103:13,23 2:21
International 26:14,16,21,22 knew 21:21,24 104:4,9,11 lake 73:10
44:19 52:24 27:1 46:13 78:12 115:6 106:15,24 119:25 122:3
64:2 job 53:23 108:10 knock 91:25 108:15,20 122:16 124:17
interrupting 115:20 120:10 92:7,9,14,18 109:2,9 110:15 lakefront 109:23
29:19,22 jobs 147:23 92:19 94:10 113:10 114:23 110:7
Intracoastal Joe 51:19 71:18 knocking 92:3 115:5,16,18 land 111:25
108:25 71:23 know 9:6 11:14 116:3,18 118:9 123:16
involved 10:23 John 102:9,17 16:14,16,25 119:6,7,9,23 large 25:1
44:4 45:13,13 joking 52:1 17:17 18:18 120:2,25 121:5 larger 147:20,23
46:10 99:1,3 Joseph 1:24 2:4 22:23,24 23:6 122:9,13,23 lateral 88:24
107:20 135:19 3:2 5:22 6:8 23:22 24:14 123:2 124:1,14 89:25
138:17 162:2,24 25:12 26:11,23 125:1,4,14,15 law 5:7 77:13
in-house 140:18 Jourdan 106:11 27:8 28:1,12 125:18 126:24 laws 79:12
IPET 69:5,6,17 106:15 30:16,17,20 127:9 128:4,8 lawyers 6:17
75:21,21 87:3 joy 51:15 33:4,11 34:21 130:23 131:18 50:23
95:3,17 96:10 JR 1:24 3:9 5:22 34:24 35:15 133:3 134:6,12 lead 54:11
97:3 103:25 162:2,24 38:16 41:2,7 135:14 136:7 leader 55:8,9
104:1,10,22 JUDGE 1:6 43:17 44:1,25 137:18,24 leading 133:2
105:8,12,13,14 July 1:13 111:4 45:3,10,18 138:18 139:1,7 leak 39:19
157:5 158:12 111:5 138:15 46:9,23 47:1,8 142:3 143:11 Leake 1:12 2:22
161:25 47:10,21,22 6:2

PINNER, RICHARD B.
7/17/2008
Page 173
leaning 9:4 106:25 108:13 licensed 11:9 112:5 113:22 looking 24:4
learned 19:7 109:4,14,18,23 life 150:10 114:14 121:19 80:25 108:7,14
23:19 110:6 111:7,7 lift 88:4,5 111:7 121:20 122:4 109:14 111:24
learning 146:17 111:12 112:23 111:23 113:2 122:25 130:24 122:14 126:5
leave 9:24 10:7 113:4,6,8 114:24 116:6,7 134:3,4,5 looks 64:24 70:3
35:9 98:9 114:7,23 116:5 lifts 88:6 124:1,5 143:12 155:1 98:18 109:12
100:22 116:6,7 117:18 124:5,6,8 locations 135:10 117:5,12 125:9
left 10:4 11:1 117:24 118:1 limitation 78:10 144:7 131:19 133:1
12:11 21:12,13 119:15 122:2 78:13 lock 98:23,25 133:19 134:13
length 123:3 123:2,3,4 limitations 78:4 99:18 102:22 140:9,13,15,15
153:12 156:10 124:5,6 125:10 78:8,14,19,20 121:17,19 140:17 141:25
lengths 99:7 130:20 132:16 78:21,24 133:2,4,5,5 143:23 144:14
letter 116:15,16 132:19 133:5 Limits 102:2 134:22 135:9 146:19 147:18
letting 28:21 133:24 134:9 line 43:2 90:2 135:11,12 148:15,17,20
let's 8:13 11:6,13 142:18,20 105:2 114:2 141:23 142:6 149:12 151:10
18:7,12 20:13 143:21 144:14 117:20,24 147:17 154:14
22:3 24:22 145:13 148:16 144:22 locks 54:18 loss 150:10
28:7 29:25 148:20 149:14 lines 97:6 logically 153:12 lost 118:16
30:15,19 33:10 149:18,18 list 50:24 51:7,8 London 123:23 lot 23:6,15 69:9
38:16 46:22 154:19,23 132:19 139:24 long 17:3 20:12 84:11
59:3 73:5 157:4 listed 104:13 20:23 22:23 Louis 11:22
75:20 90:15 levees 15:4,8,9 157:6 54:13 66:19 Louisiana 1:2,13
92:21 93:5,13 24:5 25:17,18 listen 77:20 121:6 136:4 2:6,23 5:24 6:3
95:8 159:1 25:18 26:2,4,8 96:15 longer 18:19 162:4
levee 27:18 28:7 41:10,17,18 listening 49:9 look 17:21 21:7 low 40:5 85:9
31:8 35:21 54:21 55:2 litigation 1:5 24:3,4,5 25:11 140:24 155:10
36:21,22,23 72:18 73:15 95:3 25:17,22,24 lower 40:24
43:20,23 44:3 74:6 75:13,23 little 6:13 11:13 35:11 37:17,21 44:12 99:21
45:5,12,17 75:25 79:14,16 30:3 43:14 38:8,23,24 134:10
46:1,2,6 64:13 79:19,22 84:21 54:9 73:5 39:1 41:16 Lunch 131:6
73:11,25 74:14 87:4,15,20,25 88:14,15 101:4 42:10,20,23,24
74:15 75:1,6 88:1 89:1,6 106:24 112:2 43:4 47:22 M
76:1,23 77:8 91:1 104:15,24 112:21 119:18 62:7 64:24 M 2:4 4:1
80:1,3,16 81:3 121:3 139:11 123:24 130:19 65:16 67:15 machines 130:7
81:5 82:15,20 147:21 148:1,8 load 80:7 81:24 68:25 80:12 main 124:9
83:7,16,20 149:13,25 85:6,7,10,11 91:17 93:22 maintain 32:7
84:8 85:3,4,17 150:5,9,20 85:12,13 90:24 109:5 110:16 maintaining
85:22 86:11,12 151:5,6,24,24 101:14,15,17 124:21 125:17 55:2
88:4,5,6,17,20 152:10,16,23 144:1 128:13 131:8 maintenance
88:21 89:15,24 153:7 loads 66:22 131:11 133:23 54:25 88:13
90:2,12,15,16 level 12:7 74:25 local 39:1,5 55:1 134:14 140:6 150:13 152:10
90:21 91:11 85:13 91:15 66:17 68:1,15 142:6,8 143:2 major 11:24
92:4,6 93:3,12 levels 40:4 89:2 68:21 139:9 145:22 148:23 majority 14:1,4
93:14 94:5,10 LEVINE 2:13 located 117:24 149:10 making 34:1
94:15 103:21 70:12 130:20 looked 68:22 101:1 129:14
106:16,18,19 license 11:11 location 94:16 134:23 156:25 man 26:24 158:9
management

PINNER, RICHARD B.
7/17/2008
Page 174
19:5,19,20,22 mean 9:3 11:21 mechanics 38:13 61:21 66:19 need 7:2,15
77:20 120:13 17:19 20:24,25 meeting 102:16 Mosher 105:1,15 22:17 28:18
manager 18:2,24 21:21 22:1,16 102:18 105:16 158:16 29:2,4 39:1
55:8 73:21 24:1,12,12 member 47:25 158:21 47:7 49:15
136:14,15 26:23 27:18 104:3 157:6,8 mound 93:15 50:3 63:17
mandate 86:9 31:2 34:12 members 136:16 mouth 28:16 78:18 79:23,25
mandates 62:2 36:19 39:17 137:2 158:20 move 60:25 80:1,7,13,14
mandatory 40:17 42:7,21 memo 33:19 moves 39:18 81:21 82:8
41:22 42:1,9 46:6 47:4 113:25 116:16 MRGO 1:7 84:14 91:1,9
48:20 51:12 48:24,25 49:1 117:10 125:13 87:20 88:12,17 91:10,18,18
62:8,11,16 52:13 53:15 142:25 144:14 92:6 108:25 94:3 118:13
64:10 65:13 60:1 61:20 145:16,21 110:17,25 120:19 128:4
manual 16:11 62:16,17,24 memorandum 112:8,19 130:23 134:15
22:17,17 23:24 65:10 66:3 117:5 125:8 114:14 117:25 138:13,25
25:25 26:6 68:12 76:17 memory 12:18 119:15,24 143:25 144:1,9
41:13 150:19 77:1,12 78:6,7 56:17 101:6 120:21 122:7 144:13,19
150:20 152:8 78:11,17 80:8 102:14 106:7 124:2 142:14 146:9 153:24
manuals 21:19 81:14 88:1,6 106:21,24 143:19 154:16 155:1,12,21,22
21:22,22,24 89:2,13,24,25 107:12,17,17 multiple 80:25 needed 19:23,24
22:11,20 23:20 92:5,13,19 109:6 141:22 MVD 103:1,22 138:15
24:2,13 25:2 93:13 97:2 143:5 147:24 149:1 needs 30:20
25:21 26:1,3 98:24 101:4,10 mentioned 43:17 155:15 43:20 49:12
41:3,10 101:18 103:18 54:8 101:23 142:14
March 50:17,18 103:25 106:14 method 127:13 N nefarious 51:23
mark 70:20 73:7 107:23 112:10 Metropolitan N 4:1,1,1,6 5:1 negative 158:9
93:13 113:20 113:17 124:5 72:19 name 6:8 14:18 negatively 110:3
159:1 125:12 128:19 Michoud 130:21 41:7 51:7 123:17
marked 70:22 129:2,11,14,25 155:2 98:13,16 102:5 neighborhoods
93:16 100:2 131:20 132:15 miles 123:2,4 104:4 132:23 102:7
102:25 159:11 133:4,20 minimum 150:8 named 6:3 15:2 nervous 30:3
159:13 135:15,16,18 minutes 16:15 nature 99:13 Netherlands
Marsalone 136:14 141:1 missed 82:12 navigation 75:15
116:17,19,23 145:24 147:16 missing 142:16 112:11,14 never 86:10
marsh 89:5,7 151:20 153:2 mistakes 7:23 necessarily 96:4 132:21,22
90:11 157:3,17 Mitigation necessary 8:9 new 1:11,13 2:6
Master's 8:21,24 158:10 101:24 102:1,3 64:9 113:5 2:23 6:2 8:17
9:19 meaning 35:16 modes 26:10 122:24 144:24 8:20 11:17
material 15:23 75:23 142:13 modify 144:20 145:8 159:22 12:2,15 27:2
39:19 40:22 means 35:17 moment 56:11 159:23 31:23 32:1,2
93:11 108:15 96:4 104:11 69:24 NED 98:11 47:25 48:15
108:16 109:2,3 127:16 138:18 moments 43:13 109:5 114:18 72:18 96:9
126:4 130:12 150:18 155:9 months 12:10 116:11,13 99:18,19
materials 128:20 156:22 13:2 14:7 124:21 125:17 102:21 104:16
matter 147:12 meant 33:1 20:15,15 21:7 131:9,14 138:4 111:3 122:12
McDermott 9:22 51:13 104:9 morning 6:7 139:23 141:19 133:2,4,5
10:12,15 11:2 measures 150:15 57:20 60:11 142:11 146:16 134:22 135:9
147:10 153:23

PINNER, RICHARD B.
7/17/2008
Page 175
140:4 150:4,20 numbers 70:24 24:17 27:3 54:7,19 55:20 137:23 141:6
NGR 127:3 71:2,23,25 31:22 48:15,16 55:24 56:6 141:17 142:11
Ninth 44:12 97:5 110:21,22 105:7 107:23 57:1,14 59:24 142:17 143:4
99:21 102:6 138:16,16 137:5,5 140:4 59:25 60:25 144:3,22
134:10 140:5 141:12 143:7 152:19 62:1,21 63:12 146:24 147:6
Nods 44:16 offices 1:12 12:9 63:20 64:16,19 148:6,22
46:21 138:12 O officiated 5:24 65:13,17 66:25 151:22 154:18
noise 102:8,22 O 4:1 5:1 offshore 10:25 67:7,25 68:9 155:19 156:16
Nope 50:21 oath 5:25 6:5 Oh 14:17 23:21 68:12,23 69:1 157:2 158:22
89:21 object 7:6,8 34:19 54:7 69:2,21 70:25 158:24
NOPSI 155:3 29:19,22 30:10 55:14 73:6 71:10 73:3,6 Oklahoma 8:22
normally 45:16 37:6 38:21 89:16 91:12 73:13,19,23 once 34:6 46:16
93:10,12 objection 7:8,9 139:22 74:18 75:4 56:22 57:5
126:10 7:10,15 17:25 okay 6:13 7:4,12 77:12,17,23 62:12,13 157:5
northern 95:13 30:8,25 36:3 7:17,19,24 78:1,16 79:9 ones 66:20 78:23
nose 71:18 42:6 47:20 8:15 9:5,12,15 79:18 81:18,21 124:9
note 16:20 48:23 49:22 9:18 10:1,9,14 83:1,9,10 ongoing 134:16
117:23 67:12 72:21 11:6,13,20 84:14 85:1,16 open 60:5 138:5
noted 161:13,15 76:10 82:6 12:6,17 13:4,8 86:5,13,16 159:6,8
notice 5:7 27:5 92:12 95:22 13:14,21,24 87:7,11,18,22 opened 96:11
46:17 159:22 96:7 123:8,19 14:5 15:11,14 89:22 90:5,17 151:12
notification 33:6 150:23 16:25 17:3,9 90:20 91:4 operation 33:20
34:1,9,25 35:4 objections 5:11 17:12,15 18:10 92:17,19 93:24 54:25 88:13
notifies 31:9 objective 104:14 19:6,12 20:12 94:2,4,8 95:2,4 136:25 150:12
notify 31:5 32:18 104:15,23 21:4,9,14 22:8 95:11 96:2 152:10
32:20,21,24 obtain 11:11 22:12,15,22 97:25 98:2,18 operations 13:3
33:1,5,14 obtained 8:24 23:3,17 24:7 98:22 99:15 27:20 31:5,9
34:19 9:18 24:25 25:10 102:13,24 31:11,19 32:6
November 143:1 obviously 6:14 26:6,11,21 104:7,8,20 32:15 33:1,13
NPM 100:2 20:10 22:25 27:7,11,23,24 105:11,24 34:3 45:16,24
101:25 110:13 23:11,15 32:11 28:3,5,11 106:21 107:16 45:25 50:9
nuclear 78:7 40:9 51:6 68:9 29:14 30:18,23 108:18 109:11 120:15,17,18
nuggets 103:14 83:11 84:11 32:6,10,23 109:22,23 120:20
103:16 92:3 111:17 33:4,21 34:19 110:1,9,12,14 opinion 72:16,24
number 23:14 135:6 35:2,6,8,22 111:21 113:14 73:1 95:19
24:16 25:1 occasion 42:17 36:24 37:19 113:24 114:15 118:19
41:8 69:17 occur 40:4 89:12 41:2,7,18 114:25 115:14 opinions 157:15
70:1,21 73:8 90:23 42:19 43:12,15 116:2,9,12 157:16 158:1,5
80:17 93:14 occurred 23:1,8 43:16,25 44:2 117:9,14 118:5 opportunities
98:7 125:5 72:12 76:2 44:7,10,15,17 118:8 119:5,12 10:8
127:3 139:8 96:3 151:14 44:24 45:3,6 120:25 122:18 opportunity
140:14 142:25 occurs 112:7 46:3,15 47:7 125:1,1 126:22 7:21 50:20
145:17 147:14 offer 157:15 47:15 48:5 130:17,22 opposed 60:16
147:18 offered 158:6 49:3,7,16,18 131:2,23 122:25 127:14
numbered office 2:20 11:17 51:1,5,9,12,14 134:21 135:2,6 129:22 132:11
142:11 12:4,16 13:7 52:18 53:7,8 136:5,18 149:18
19:14,22 24:13

PINNER, RICHARD B.
7/17/2008
Page 176
option 99:14 O&M 54:22 132:12 137:10 75:5 8:13 31:14,18

order 46:9 53:2 141:14 147:25 permits 27:19 45:8 47:2 49:5
79:25 80:2 P 153:15 43:13 50:11 57:4 70:20,22
132:5 139:8,10 P 5:1 93:24,25 particularly permitted 5:5 72:16 73:8,9
139:18 140:14 package 125:8 6:19 72:7 person 14:13 93:14,16 96:15
155:22 pact 36:15 parties 5:3 20:4,5 33:16 102:10 131:8
org 15:15 page 4:3,8 70:1 162:14 46:13 84:9 159:13 161:3
organization 70:24,25 71:2 parts 147:22 136:22 145:24 161:11
15:16,17,22 71:22 101:25 party 63:4 64:1 158:21 pipe 126:12
organizational 115:12 138:4 67:2,9 personal 45:11 127:14
12:15 103:4 149:8 passed 77:14 45:15 87:18 pipeline 10:17
140:16 pages 70:14 125:16 150:25 10:19,20
organized 31:22 71:25 73:7 PAUL 2:13 Personally pipelines 10:25
orgs 138:17 132:14 134:24 pen 100:2 118:14 137:25 pit 108:2,3
original 5:9 painfully 75:17 pending 148:10 personnel 16:18 place 17:9 44:6
145:21 PAP 131:20 penetration person's 64:17 62:2,4 65:5
Orleans 1:12,13 paper 16:12 148:16 PERTAINS 1:7 121:8 126:20
2:6,23 6:2 8:17 paragraph people 24:15 PET 106:7 108:6 155:4,5
8:20 11:17 69:13,23 70:9 people's 74:21 115:11 116:12 placed 47:16
12:2,15 27:2 72:8 104:14 percent 128:19 Pete 105:3 111:11 113:18
45:5 47:25 117:23 147:25 128:19 Phase 133:24 113:19
48:16 72:18 paren 138:5 perfect 6:25 147:21 places 9:22 90:3
104:16 122:12 Paris 108:12,16 perfectly 61:14 phases 135:15 90:7
122:13 140:4 114:24 115:21 perform 138:25 phone 46:11 plaintiffs 2:2
150:4,21 142:13 146:23 157:7 pick 33:13 81:6 159:25
ought 61:3 parish 109:7,10 performance 81:15 plan 64:4,5,11
outside 43:1 109:15,19,24 69:20 70:10 piece 16:11 64:15,22,23
112:3 110:2 122:13 103:21 104:18 44:20 68:10 101:24
overflow 84:1,2 125:2,10 104:23 157:5 piecemeal 102:2 115:4
84:3,11,16,23 part 5:14 20:6 performed 135:23 121:8,23 122:2
85:14,23 86:11 21:5 22:10 72:11 75:23 pile 98:20 99:7,9 122:5 124:19
86:20 39:8 40:6 87:4 99:10 101:8,9 plane 30:1
overhead 141:3 51:24 66:23 period 13:9 101:12,13,14 planned 68:4,6
141:4 75:3 77:1 89:7 22:23 42:18 101:20 107:6 planning 12:22
Overly 30:25 93:8 99:18 55:12 141:20,23 13:3 19:4
36:3 104:22 105:8 periodic 14:8 142:2,9,10 46:24 47:2,9
overtopped 87:9 115:9,19 54:11,15,17 153:11,12,14 47:13 49:20,24
95:25 125:20 137:1 55:4 153:16 156:2 50:2 64:2,4
overtopping 155:24 156:14 permeability 156:10,11,12 98:23 136:21
72:12 76:5 156:25 126:5,6 piles 99:11,12,14 136:25 137:13
85:15 95:24 participate permeable 40:22 102:21 142:1,7 plans 30:21
96:4 97:8 54:21 126:6,19 142:8 63:16 65:4
overwash 75:9 particular 8:25 permission piling 99:10 88:2,3,7
83:19,20,22,25 16:5 17:18 17:17 115:3,18 142:4 111:13 113:17
84:3,4,15,23 23:23,25 48:8 permit 43:20,23 Pinner 1:10 4:9 121:24
85:14 86:12,18 55:11 115:12 45:19 46:2,5 4:10,11 6:1,7 plant 94:17
121:19 130:24

PINNER, RICHARD B.
7/17/2008
Page 177
155:3 129:13,21 32:14 35:6 proposal 67:1 pulling 95:7

play 60:15 62:25 130:16 46:25 47:9,10 proposals pure 128:21
played 156:23 present 3:1,7 49:12,13,19 121:17 purpose 35:4
please 6:22 11:7 75:7 50:2,4 60:16 proposed 64:12 125:19 128:21
18:22 19:12 presented 63:24 64:2,4 67:22 123:13 133:2 129:16,18,24
35:17 36:17 142:25 145:16 73:21,25 74:2 134:22 135:9 130:13
84:6 96:15 157:20 74:5,14,19 142:5 147:1,1 purposefully
plus 10:17 presents 63:16 77:20 79:7,11 proposing 142:1 126:23
133:20 64:3 80:2,4,11 protect 75:2 purposes 5:5
PM 18:14,22 preserve 7:8 81:10 82:9,12 90:11 92:1,20 pursuant 5:7
136:21 preserving 7:9 82:16,19,25 protected 36:20 124:17
point 7:12,20 pressure 40:10 84:25 85:6,12 93:25 99:20 purview 32:4
20:5 33:12 40:17,23 98:24,25 99:3 protection 27:6 put 6:21 27:4
52:5 62:20 125:22 107:25 109:9 27:22 30:22 28:15 29:13
64:19 82:16 pressures 39:21 109:10 111:6 31:4,7 35:14 46:17 47:21
86:23 87:13 127:12 112:11,14 35:20 40:3 70:19 76:23
112:20,20 presuming 46:7 115:8,10 42:4 47:12 81:4 84:20
126:8 129:19 pretty 39:6 119:24 120:1 48:3 59:8 92:10,13 93:24
130:14 136:19 55:21 141:8,9 120:13 122:14 62:18 72:12 94:10 97:2
137:19 previous 121:24 124:25 132:8 73:11 82:10 101:1 119:9
policy 62:2 primarily 138:7 132:12 133:16 92:1,15 93:3 121:23 125:24
152:19 principally 133:22 134:16 99:19 104:17 126:10,12,12
Pontchartrain 146:17 148:3 134:19,20 110:24 111:15 126:14,23
73:10 119:25 private 110:10 135:7,11,12,15 114:13 115:10 127:14 128:11
124:18 PRO 122:8 135:23,25 119:14,16 129:3,4,7
porous 126:2 problem 39:15 136:3,13,14,15 120:1,19 121:2 155:4,5,7
129:17 41:25 57:16 136:18 137:10 121:8 122:15 puts 27:18
position 12:7 68:18 100:7 137:15,18 122:19,20,24 putting 81:3
158:18 119:12 139:1 140:14 123:23 124:2 92:5 94:4
positions 15:10 problems 48:9 141:15,24 124:16,18 PVC 126:12
possibility 32:13 125:22 143:1,7,8,10 133:1,4,6 127:14
32:16 33:9 procedure 5:6 147:11,20,23 134:9 143:21 P.E 1:10 6:1
40:2 63:3,7 62:2 projects 16:16 144:2,18 150:5 161:3,11
83:16 procedures 20:1,3 31:4 153:7,17 155:3 P.O 2:14
possible 52:11 150:13 32:4,8,17 34:2 155:5,6,8
56:14,19 59:6 process 38:14,18 34:8 46:24 protective 76:7 Q
possibly 88:21 45:13 58:12 75:8 122:8,10 protects 92:4 qualifications
Post-it 149:5 131:25 122:12,13 provide 114:13 129:5,8
potential 48:9 program 16:22 132:11 134:18 152:9 157:25 quality 150:12
88:16,19 89:10 16:23 137:3 158:4 question 5:12
102:8 project 16:5 proper 75:16 provided 157:24 6:20,22 7:14
power 123:23 17:18,22 18:13 81:16 110:5 provides 19:8 18:6 20:24
155:3 18:16,24 19:4 127:19,21 providing 72:11 22:8 26:5
precisely 71:9 19:19,20,21,22 properly 76:15 proximity 34:11 36:12,16
prepare 51:6 20:7,9 30:22 121:15 117:17 36:17 37:10
prescribed 31:7,8,22 property 150:11 published 21:19 44:25 45:7,14
46:14 47:7,14

PINNER, RICHARD B.
7/17/2008
Page 178
49:6 51:13,15 109:20 132:15 32:25 33:15 63:25 125:13 121:1 132:1
57:17 58:5,20 133:7 134:24 35:16 37:2 relevance 133:10
58:22 61:11 155:19,21,22 43:3 58:10,17 149:17 requesting
63:15,19 67:5 156:14 158:12 58:17,23 66:12 relevant 26:2,8 136:11
67:19,20 74:4 reader 134:25 70:11 95:8 118:9 119:8 require 86:3
84:9 96:16,20 reading 5:8 72:4 106:3 114:16 relief 125:18,19 required 7:13
103:3 111:17 102:12 133:15 144:5 159:4,9 125:20 126:11 16:3 17:16
114:21 115:1 143:3 155:24 recorded 141:14 129:15 130:18 46:18 47:4
116:13 118:22 really 13:12 reduce 93:3 130:19,24 62:15 73:16
118:23 122:1 15:21 27:18 122:22,23 relieve 127:11 111:14 145:2
123:9 124:23 37:10 51:17 reduction 153:9 rely 149:11 requirements
125:3 126:17 71:22 105:12 Reed 105:1,15 remediate 44:19 61:9 117:16
131:10,21 108:15 125:15 105:16 158:21 remember 22:14 118:12
144:4 148:10 137:8,25 refer 31:13 43:13 56:18 reschedule
149:13,17 149:19 152:2 reference 18:21 71:16 98:20 159:20
157:25 153:8 156:22 23:6,24 24:20 101:4,9 102:16 research 24:8,12
questioned 157:7 158:15 24:21 46:12 102:19 107:13 75:19 105:7
142:9 reason 32:10 70:5 111:3 112:21 121:18 reserve 8:1
questions 23:11 47:24 50:22 125:5 129:14 124:12 143:8,9 reserved 5:13
32:24 61:16 95:15 115:15 referencing 143:10 147:4 8:4,6
71:16 100:18 recall 53:3 56:6 144:15 removed 134:12 resolve 7:15
100:22 56:10 102:19 referred 44:20 repairs 154:23 resource 22:6
question's 7:11 106:9 115:16 53:2 88:18 repeat 63:19 resources 22:9
quick 114:20 120:2 131:17 95:13 67:5 respect 21:3
115:1 157:16 referring 69:14 repeated 82:7 respectively
quicker 18:18 received 56:7 72:14 138:5 replacement 111:6
111:5 refers 127:4 98:24,25 response 116:15
R recess 57:2 refresh 141:21 102:22 118:18
R 3:3 recognize 66:25 regard 6:19 50:9 report 69:17 responsibility
raise 65:24 98:12 57:4 68:4 75:21,21 97:3 120:11
111:15 113:3 recognizing 72:17 108:23 99:4,5 158:10 responsiveness
123:2 98:14 130:18 158:13,17 5:12
raised 111:8 recollection regards 33:24 REPORTED result 96:19
raising 108:13 56:23 98:21 52:19 114:19 1:23 150:10 162:16
116:5 133:3 99:24 108:10 116:13 150:19 Reporter 1:25 retaining 25:19
random 129:25 109:12 110:6 regulations 5:23 162:3,25 returned 13:25
130:3 recommendati... 21:23,24 22:21 REPORTER'S review 42:15
rate 88:22 141:4 45:24 79:12 162:1 109:22 117:15
rates 139:24,25 Recommendat... relate 25:2 reports 99:2 reviewing
140:2,3,12 102:2 related 21:19 104:5 135:19 109:18
141:2,3,8 reconfirm 157:4 27:3 131:13 135:21 Richard 1:10
reach 136:18 reconfirming 162:14 REPRESENT... 2:12 6:1 7:24
142:13,15 146:1 relates 26:6 2:2,9,19 25:10 28:22
read 7:22 21:22 record 7:14 8:7 47:17 59:23 request 19:13 29:1,13,25
69:8,24 85:21 14:11 16:19 95:3 46:5 56:20,21 31:11 45:7
95:17 97:5,5 17:20 18:23 relationship 116:15 118:12 51:22 58:16
97:18 107:10

PINNER, RICHARD B.
7/17/2008
Page 179
59:16 69:16 78:24 79:5,18 137:21 138:22 117:25 118:1 secondly 7:5
98:6 100:4 79:23 80:17 139:7,12 safety 39:24 64:23
102:10 142:12 81:5,12,18,23 140:11 141:1 148:17 149:22 section 13:17,22
149:9 161:3,11 82:14,16,18 141:11 143:11 150:2,3 152:4 13:23 15:3,4,5
ride 54:23 56:22 83:6,14,15,21 143:20,21 152:16 19:17 20:14,18
right 7:3,7 8:1 84:14 85:16,20 144:5,16,22 Sam 117:9,10 20:20 27:14
9:5 12:1,24 85:23 86:2,5 145:10 146:3 sand 39:17 33:18 53:12
13:7,14 14:5 86:14,18 87:5 146:14 147:4 125:23 126:1,6 54:3,5,6 55:11
14:10,22 16:1 88:8,11,15 147:15 149:24 126:9,10,13,14 55:13,18 56:4
16:10,19 17:7 89:22 90:8,14 151:5,17,18 126:19,24 74:24 94:3
17:18 18:21 90:19 91:20,22 152:6,14,23,24 127:4,8,8,10 103:2 112:4
19:1,6,10 92:4 93:18,20 152:25 153:21 127:15,16,18 113:8 116:25
20:11,12,14 94:8,8,17 97:9 153:22 154:20 127:20,23,24 117:2 119:1
21:9,17 22:5,6 97:15,19 98:15 155:15 157:2 127:25 128:1,2 142:24 144:18
23:18,22 24:7 98:19 100:25 157:11 160:3 128:3,5,7,9,11 144:19,20
24:19,24 26:24 101:2,22 risk 153:8 128:15,15,23 145:4,15 146:1
28:6 30:4,16 102:24 103:8 river 31:8 35:7 129:2,4,6,16 146:2
31:23 32:4 103:20 104:1 129:2,4 133:5 129:17 130:3 sections 14:23
33:10,24 34:4 104:21 105:17 Road 106:12,15 satisfy 63:17 15:1,12,21
34:21 35:2,15 105:21 106:2,5 108:12,17 save 5:8,11 142:15,18,20
35:22,24 36:24 106:25 107:2 114:24 115:21 saying 8:10 146:4
38:10 39:4,14 107:15 108:5 142:13 146:23 37:13,15 58:19 Security 150:3
40:9,11,16 108:11,18 ROBINSON 1:7 58:24 79:2 see 6:15 11:6
41:18,19 42:9 109:16,23 rock 91:9,18,22 85:18 86:8 20:13 24:7
42:16 43:8,10 110:15 111:2 92:9,17 111:10 92:8,9 97:12 25:11 29:25
43:25 44:10,13 111:19 112:8 111:22 112:1,3 104:10 108:8 31:2 34:19
44:14,24 45:6 112:17 113:12 112:5,6,13,19 138:23 145:19 35:11 37:23
45:23 46:8,19 113:14,17 113:18,19,23 147:8 48:2 67:15
47:4 48:13 114:2,12,15 114:1,6 154:4 says 64:5 75:22 70:19 75:14
49:9 50:1,22 115:11 117:4 role 32:7 115:23 93:21 95:10 76:17 97:1
52:7,13,22 117:11,22 121:11 156:23 96:24 102:1,5 98:1,13 102:4
53:6,6,22 54:1 119:4 120:3 Ron 136:13,15 104:8 106:16 102:11 103:25
54:23 55:7,12 121:5,16 room 6:2,17 106:19 115:1 106:18,21
55:25 56:4,10 122:14 123:21 56:18 125:3,5 134:7 110:9 118:4
57:4 60:7,9 125:11 126:3 rotated 12:8,12 138:13,20 124:24 131:20
61:6 62:8,9 126:14,16,23 Round 99:12,14 140:8 142:12 135:10 136:15
63:6,13,14,15 127:1,5,10,18 route 33:22 143:13 145:12 140:13,17
63:23 64:13,16 127:22,24 34:15 147:17,25 143:3 147:12
65:1,14,17 128:10,16 routes 34:21 154:10 seen 124:5
66:25 68:7,11 129:1,7,9,11 RPR 1:24 5:22 scenario 92:8 132:21,22,23
69:2 70:19 130:2,9,16 162:2,24 scope 68:13 seep 39:19
72:5 73:23 131:17,21 rules 5:6 72:25 139:20 seepage 25:19
74:8,22 75:2,6 132:3,15,25 ruling 148:7 SCOTT 3:3,10 39:2,5,15
75:9,11 76:1,8 133:18 134:17 running 133:17 scrub 118:2 40:14 41:11,15
76:14,20 77:2 135:14,18 se 104:4 52:19,21 66:22
77:4,25 78:5 136:2,9 137:16 S search 25:14 68:15 125:21
s 5:1 21:6 32:7

PINNER, RICHARD B.
7/17/2008
Page 180
selected 50:19 110:12 114:18 158:12 143:6 149:10 130:16

51:16 115:11 131:12 site 56:2 63:22 149:12 151:20 specifications
semi-compacted 141:18 146:16 64:14 80:14 153:2 88:3,4
116:1 147:24 148:23 146:20 147:1,2 somebody's specify 128:14
send 34:15 154:10 155:15 147:9 46:10 129:15
sense 6:14 103:4 shown 111:13 site-by-site someplace specs 88:7
sensitive 30:3,6 113:11 39:12 106:17 108:16 128:13
31:2 shows 103:1 sitting 56:18 122:15 speculation
sent 154:21 104:4,6 situation 90:23 sorry 31:18,25 76:11,14
sentence 72:8 side 9:7 36:20 situations 59:6 51:22 55:14 speed 89:11
75:20 95:9 40:2 70:25 six 12:10 13:2 73:6 79:24 Spending 102:2
sentences 28:19 75:6 76:23 21:7 67:16 80:9 85:25 spent 14:1
28:22 29:6 85:25 86:2,17 six-month 13:9 105:5,18 spoil 88:18
seriatim 115:12 90:15,16 91:1 size 146:8 118:16,16 sponsors 55:1
131:9 141:19 93:23,24,25 slid 96:13 119:16 127:1 spread 88:24
149:1 94:1 99:20 slide 142:23 128:2 147:25 89:25
series 21:10 119:7 133:24 slightly 55:8 sort 16:11 94:11 spreadsheet
set 162:7 134:1,7,9,11 149:22 152:4 sought 5:15 17:2,5
setting 32:11 134:11,13 Slips 17:1 soundings 111:4 square 99:12
settle 13:9 135:5,6 138:6 slope 42:25 sounds 137:7 St 11:22 102:7
settlement 83:5 139:4 142:22 142:23 145:14 139:16 109:7,9,14,18
89:8,9 145:13,14 slow 27:23 28:2 source 37:25 110:2 122:12
Sewerage sides 115:3 small 92:13,17 south 110:19 125:2,10
147:14 134:12 118:2,11 so-called 127:4 133:25 134:1
Shakes 110:3 sign 7:24 147:23 Spadaro 138:17 stability 35:20
123:17 Signed 161:11 smaller 90:8,9 138:22 35:22 36:21
shallow 25:20 161:13,15 software 17:1 speak 8:10 38:1,23 39:1,2
shape 92:25 significance soil 80:13 105:22 107:14 42:25 43:1
sharing 8:14 148:12 105:23 111:10 speaking 40:20 66:21 68:15,15
shear 111:10 significant 114:7 126:3 speaks 150:23 84:17 93:8
sheet 99:9 115:3 150:10 157:22 151:7 111:24,25
115:18 153:11 signing 5:9 soils 55:22 special 9:1 112:4 114:13
153:12,14,16 silt 130:3 127:10 129:17,20,24 119:21 146:8
156:2,7,10,10 silty 127:20 somebody 22:3 specialization 146:10 149:23
156:12 similar 26:9 32:12 34:14 9:1 152:5 156:12
sheets 156:8 simple 69:11 35:12 36:19 specific 26:5 stable 91:21
ship 134:22 simply 16:22 42:14,21 46:5 44:4 80:14 144:21
142:6 17:19 78:13 48:25 49:12,19 130:16 stack 100:9
shore 122:3 79:24 91:17 56:19 57:10 specifically 5:10 101:1
155:6 sink 83:12 60:17 63:9,16 63:21 96:18 stand 85:5
shoreline 122:17 sinking 88:19 65:16 68:16 102:4 standard 73:25
shorthand 162:9 Siphon 147:13 85:16,22 specification 74:1,4,13,19
show 98:3 100:1 147:18 113:15,21 68:11 115:25 79:20 88:9
101:22 102:11 sir 60:3 111:2 121:3 126:25 128:6 129:1,9 standards 79:19
102:25 103:20 148:22 127:1 136:10 129:12,13,22 stands 117:13
106:5 108:5 sit 56:16,24 136:11 142:1 129:23 130:15 stapled 148:24

PINNER, RICHARD B.
7/17/2008
Page 181
start 22:3 29:12 85:2 studying 75:11 137:14 145:25 system 35:14,21
29:16 93:6 straight 101:16 stuff 10:22 83:5 support 19:8,9 62:19 73:11
100:25 139:2 strata 39:17 98:8 100:13 19:13 137:14 104:17 153:9
started 6:9 40:24 158:11 137:20 138:24 154:24
126:21 stratum 41:1 stumps 148:21 139:5 158:17
starts 138:15,24 street 2:5 135:1 subcontracting supported 37:24 T
state 5:23 8:22 135:4 60:17 supposed 47:9 T 4:1,6 5:1,1
150:6 162:3 strength 97:6 subcontractor sure 6:24 8:12 take 6:15 8:9
statement 72:17 strengths 111:10 68:7 11:23 18:11 18:15 25:11
87:3 structural 10:16 subject 111:6,7 21:23 22:3,7 28:1 54:23
States 1:1 2:9,10 10:21 15:3,7,8 142:20 143:1 24:18,22 27:16 62:4 69:23
11:3 48:1,6 19:25 20:14 143:14 145:12 28:14 32:20 101:14 108:14
station 2:15 22:20 54:5 147:12 150:6 34:10 38:7 109:5 125:7
108:8 110:19 55:13,17 56:3 submit 27:20 39:11,22 40:18 132:8 143:2
110:20,22 128:2,3,7,8,9 submittal 40:18 43:11 taken 5:5 161:25
stations 108:9 128:15 109:22 47:24 49:7 162:8
110:16 111:7 structure 14:11 subsidence 53:19 55:1,10 takes 18:19
111:14 115:22 27:7 36:1 37:4 88:22 89:12,15 60:8 62:10 36:20 98:1
stay 83:13 38:1,9 39:16 sufficient 64:17 64:23 65:4 talk 7:24 11:13
stayed 53:15 40:3 42:4,23 86:17 67:17,18 68:13 18:7 23:1
steel 99:14 142:7 47:12 48:11,19 suggest 22:1 78:10 87:2 24:22 28:7
stick 107:6 49:2,15 50:5 26:23 76:18 88:4 89:4 30:15 46:22
stint 55:4 59:9,24 60:12 152:6 91:21 93:6 47:3 59:21
STIPULATED 62:5 83:3 suggesting 60:13 95:6 96:8 99:2 73:5 90:15
5:2 88:23 94:11 60:20 76:18,24 99:22 101:8 92:21 132:10
stipulation 6:4 99:19,21 suggests 59:5 103:10 104:3 155:13
Stone 2:12 8:3 101:10,21 suitable 109:3 108:2 110:20 talked 28:6 47:1
17:24 28:17,23 103:2 110:25 130:12 113:9,19,21 57:19 60:10
29:3,15 30:9 114:20 115:3 Summary 69:18 114:5 117:1 90:14 112:21
30:24 31:12 119:17 122:15 69:19 70:8 120:24 121:4 130:19 151:16
36:2,7 37:5 122:19,24 101:24 121:14 122:1,4 151:18 157:19
38:20 42:5 124:2 147:2,3 superior 24:9 122:16 123:9 talking 18:1
47:19 48:22 147:17 supervision 124:7,11 125:1 22:12,22 34:7
49:21 51:18,25 structures 14:7 162:10 134:5 138:22 35:5,7 40:18
57:15 58:1,18 14:9 19:17 supervisor 24:2 139:3 140:15 41:23,25 44:6
59:5,10,17 33:9 34:17 24:9 144:21 145:23 44:8,17 51:7
60:13,21 65:20 37:24 48:3 supervisory 148:6 149:3 59:11,13 60:9
66:5,10 72:2 54:16 61:23 20:19 140:22 151:9 154:11 60:23 61:21
72:20 76:9 72:10 117:3 supplied 104:25 155:19 66:19 67:16,23
96:6 100:6,14 124:17 143:18 105:23 106:1 surface 92:14 70:18 71:10,13
100:20 103:12 150:4,13,17 142:24 145:15 surge 123:5 88:5 107:19
103:17 107:5 strut 66:22 145:20 155:14 surprised 109:17 115:19
123:7,18 148:9 studied 89:18,23 157:12 135:20 143:23 147:20
149:4 150:22 94:21,23,25 supply 19:21 surveys 111:4 147:21 148:15
154:1 158:25 study 96:10 97:3 137:12 sworn 6:4 162:6 148:18,21
stop 7:3 34:13 141:25 supplying 108:3 symbol 151:11 155:11,25
157:17

PINNER, RICHARD B.
7/17/2008
Page 182
talks 41:14 123:3 157:3 Three-Year 86:12 157:23

125:17 133:23 Tendering 69:24 things 12:23 101:24 102:1 top 25:6 34:1,3,6
133:24,25 98:11 102:12 18:18 22:23 thrown 54:8 75:25 82:9
134:1 137:23 104:19 106:8 23:1,8 25:17 tide 40:5 83:17 84:12,20
153:23 155:16 107:9 108:6 32:2 39:7 tie-in 99:7 85:5 90:4
task 53:2 104:15 109:6 114:20 42:24 60:2 time 5:13 7:6,6 98:13,17 149:5
132:5 139:7,10 115:13 124:22 84:3 91:23 7:16 8:11 9:24 topic 24:5
139:18 140:14 131:9,14 105:22 120:7 10:10 11:1,18 TORTS 2:11
tasks 147:19 145:23 146:18 120:11 130:1 12:9 14:1 total 141:4
taste 13:4 148:5 149:2 131:13 142:7 15:18 16:4,4 totally 134:2
team 19:24,25 153:25 158:2 16:20,24 17:1 touch 30:2
20:3 55:8,9 tenure 53:7 think 7:19 15:2 17:5,17,20,23 tough 20:24
104:2,3,8,9,11 TERC 134:2,5 16:15 18:5 18:2,8,15 45:14
104:22,25 137:23,24 33:7 42:16 21:25 22:18,23 training 12:8,25
105:1,8,19 138:5,20,21 43:16,22 44:20 23:18 24:1,16 20:23,25 21:1
136:16 137:2 term 66:22 45:25 46:2 29:16 30:11 21:11,11,15,17
157:6,8,9 154:3,12 48:24 49:2 33:12 50:12 22:10
158:20 terminal 106:12 53:9 58:21 53:17 55:12,20 transcribed
technical 55:8 106:16 61:2,10 65:21 58:25 103:4,7 162:10
technically terminology 66:6 89:14 107:25 116:22 transcript 5:9
148:1,7 150:16 93:12,13,14 120:4 124:3 transcription
tell 6:22 7:3 17:6 terms 28:8 66:24 95:5,20 97:1 128:24,24 161:5 162:11
18:9 22:4 24:2 73:13 88:11 99:1 106:11,25 132:7 135:17 travel 75:18
30:7 33:14 154:6 108:9,19 135:20 136:4 tree 148:21
36:16 43:25 test 51:13 138:3 109:24 110:5 137:6 138:24 TREEBY 3:5,11
48:16,19 49:12 155:16 110:21 114:22 156:21 157:17 29:18 67:11
61:12 72:3 testified 6:5 116:21 117:10 157:18,20 69:25 71:1,11
73:23 79:10 testify 51:4 52:6 118:13 119:8 158:14 71:17,21 82:5
80:4,5,6 82:8 162:6,7 135:4,18,21,25 times 10:4 18:7 92:11 95:21
82:21,24 84:19 testimony 157:7 136:13 137:25 tip 96:13 153:12 159:5,18
87:22,25 90:24 161:4,6 138:20 140:6 153:14 156:11 trees 90:10
90:25 91:9 TFG 154:22 140:25 144:9 title 14:13,18 94:17,18 118:2
94:2 96:17 Thank 65:17 153:9 157:9 53:19 108:7 118:11,15,21
101:6 102:18 141:17 148:22 159:16,23 titles 24:4 53:23 148:15,19,21
105:17 106:6 158:22 thinking 32:12 55:7 trenches 127:17
145:1,18 146:8 theirs 81:19 third 63:4 67:2,9 today 12:13 16:8 trial 51:4 52:7
147:10 155:17 thereof 5:14 81:25 114:23 29:2 50:20 87:24
155:22,23 thick 118:2,10 138:19 53:4 56:24 trouble 30:17
158:13 thing 7:22 30:2 thought 43:19 toe 92:6 112:22 true 16:8 27:9
tells 43:6 68:16 46:1 67:8 45:18 54:19 told 17:21 20:13 33:11 40:12,13
77:21 81:21,25 82:17 58:12 82:1 22:16 38:14,15 47:18 48:3,11
template 131:19 83:12 96:9 111:25 122:5,6 38:16 46:15,20 56:15 61:24
temporary 103:25 107:11 141:21 144:11 49:19 51:3 62:16 67:4,14
11:22 14:6 124:22 128:17 three 34:20 39:4 58:12 62:13 73:3 77:10
ten 17:10,11 136:7 146:11 39:7 124:4,5,9 74:12 77:21,23 78:5,5 87:16
25:4,5 83:23 148:24 155:20 134:24 81:2,9 86:11 113:7 120:21

PINNER, RICHARD B.
7/17/2008
Page 183
151:4 152:11 156:20 157:18 28:1 124:18 WARREN 3:9

161:7 162:10 Unh-unh 57:25 Vicksburg 105:9 wash 86:24
trust 149:9 U United 1:1 2:9 VIDEOGRAP... 112:7
truth 24:8 162:6 U 5:1 2:10 11:3 48:1 3:13 washed 76:1,8
try 7:12 11:15 ultimate 98:20 48:6 view 96:17 87:5,8
18:13,14 98:6 ultimately 72:10 University 8:16 Violet 121:19 washing 130:7
trying 22:2 153:13 8:18,20,22 visual 42:21 43:5Washington
28:15 46:3 um 9:14 10:24 UNO 123:25 43:9 2:16 44:18
49:8,17 58:24 15:24 25:19 uplift 39:20 volumes 69:10 52:24 64:1,3
61:12 65:23,24 41:9 50:6 88:3 66:23 125:21 vulnerable 71:9
76:21 81:22 99:6,6 108:24 127:11 72:13 wasn't 33:11
82:4,22,25 108:24 117:14 use 25:15 30:7 53:16 60:22
87:15 97:1 134:8 140:8 38:16 62:10 W 65:24 135:16
106:11 110:21 148:19 155:2 79:19,20 98:7 wage 140:9 waste 30:11
114:22 116:14 uncapped 115:2 121:23 126:8 WAGER-ZITO water 39:19 40:2
127:11 131:12 uncompacted 129:21,25 3:8 40:4,10,21,23
136:5 149:12 115:25 142:17 145:19 Wait 54:4 40:25 74:5,9
Tulane 8:18 uncovered 146:2 149:22 waive 8:1 75:1,24,24,25
twelve 18:7 120:20 152:3 153:12 waived 5:10 80:8,10,10
78:19 undecided 153:5 153:15 walk 62:22 81:22 82:1,4,8
two 10:3 13:12 underseepage useful 58:23 wall 96:11,13,19 82:22,25 83:17
14:7 15:12 66:17 68:2,20 152:8 97:7 133:24 83:19,23,24,24
20:15 25:7 153:13 uses 152:8 153:16 156:2,8 84:7,12,20
26:3 39:21 understand 6:20 usually 157:8 walls 25:19 99:7 85:5,13 91:15
44:14 54:22 6:22 17:16 U.S 1:11 2:19 want 7:25 8:1 92:14 117:25
57:18 58:10 19:12 22:2 22:25 26:15 118:1 122:21
59:6 60:14 31:21 32:6 V 28:12 30:1 123:11 125:24
70:13 73:7 34:10 35:2 Vague 17:25 32:11 33:12 126:2,24 127:9
84:2 122:9 36:16 46:8 123:19 36:8,11,13 127:20 134:9
126:11 133:19 49:10 52:21 variety 14:23 45:21 48:2 147:14
143:18 158:15 74:23 76:21 60:2 59:18,21 61:1 Waterway
type 10:21 20:21 77:15 83:11 various 12:21 62:25 66:11,12 108:25
65:22 67:15 111:21 131:13 13:5 90:22 69:12 85:2 waterways 89:3
83:3,19 84:7 131:25 136:6 vegetation 90:10 100:13 101:3 wave 90:22
86:4 102:22 151:2 118:2,11 103:10 104:10 91:10,18,25
109:13 122:7 understanding 148:16,18 107:10 124:4 92:3,7,13,15
124:7 128:17 6:18 16:2 velocities 86:21 124:24 131:24 92:21,22,23
131:19 139:10 33:14 35:3 velocity 86:22 137:7 149:9 93:2,4,5,8,11
142:1,2,8 43:22 44:1 versus 82:15 154:2 157:3 93:20,21 94:18
144:19 150:12 45:12,20,22,23 151:23 156:2 wanted 32:25 112:7 117:16
154:25 47:8 73:15 vertical 101:17 110:6 129:20 118:12 142:15
types 57:18 86:1 83:18 84:5 127:4 142:22 129:20 142:6,8 142:16,18,20
90:22 94:13 96:2 145:14 wants 78:3 143:8,25 144:1
typical 144:18 136:1 162:12 vibration 102:9 159:10 144:6,13,23
144:19 understood vicinity 73:11 Ward 44:12 145:1,7,12
T.F 154:22 26:25 61:20 110:24 119:15 99:21 102:6 146:11,12
unfortunately 120:1 122:16 134:10

PINNER, RICHARD B.
7/17/2008
Page 184
153:24 154:4,7 13:23 39:5 149:10 158:5 159:8 121:22 122:2

154:9,10 60:10 62:7 159:3 year 13:12,13,14 122:20
waves 91:10,13 66:19 88:25 worked 9:22 14:8 21:8,15 1110-2-1913
92:10,17 94:6 wharf 135:1 10:16 54:14 55:3 150:1
94:11 155:6,8 147:20 working 110:1 132:24 133:9 116 6:2
155:10 whoever's 137:5 111:18 140:21 133:17,20 12700 106:7
way 7:7,11 30:19 WILLIAM 3:5 143:8 134:15 139:1 132-3566 109:5
31:21 37:3 3:11 works 7:7 31:23 years 13:12 132-6202 124:21
50:18 82:3 willing 61:14 32:1,2 97:18 17:10,11 22:12 1351613 139:23
84:7 91:14 withstand 73:25 wouldn't 40:13 22:13 88:10 1439 142:12
103:13 116:10 78:7 91:7 76:8 91:12,13 107:7 120:5 149-514 141:19
123:1 124:16 witness 5:4,25 92:19 130:5 133:19 135:24 15 83:24,24
125:22 131:16 6:3 29:5,11,20 132:22 136:1,8 128:19
140:13 148:25 31:14 36:11 wrap 157:2 yellow 72:9 150 90:1
157:8 162:15 50:24 58:12 write 72:1 Yep 7:18 31:24 1500 31:8 131:9
ways 126:11 71:4,12 72:21 writing 16:21 34:5 43:11 151559 116:12
website 23:21 150:24 161:1 132:5 149:12 y'all 57:19 65:131531451 147:10
24:3,6 152:22 162:5 written 27:12 1531498 131:9
weeks 13:7 witnesses 29:9 67:1,2,4 $ 1531499 138:4
wells 125:18 29:10 wrong 7:11 $117 141:5 1531613 131:14
126:12 130:18 wonder 153:24 26:20 70:25 $48.89 140:22 1555 115:11
130:19,24 wonderful 50:19 128:2 132:13 1559 115:12
went 8:21 11:21 wood 148:16 133:7,13 # 1564 115:12
54:10 75:25 word 13:21 134:18 145:11 #75005 1:25 159 4:11
114:7 62:10 125:11 wrote 96:25 162:25 163297 116:11
weren't 105:19 128:3 157:9 117:10 151:9 0 116:13
west 130:21 words 25:14 158:16 163300 114:18
00 133:20 136:10
133:24 134:11 28:15 38:13 1642 131:14
X 138:15
134:13 135:5,6 63:8 70:9 82:2 17th 1:14 161:25
147:22 88:20 95:7 X 4:1,1,6,6 49:15 01 133:20 136:10 17-1054 153:23
64:6,6 77:18 011-626 100:2
we'll 7:15 97:25 96:23 113:21 17.5 111:9,19
100:15 144:20 123:11 152:8 77:19,19,22,24 011626 101:25 17887 146:16
04 55:14,18
159:2,22 work 9:20,21 18 125:5
Y 05 23:19
we're 8:10 22:12 10:9 11:2 18061 98:11
Y 64:6 05-4182 1:5
22:25 23:8 17:18,20 18:14 1873 149:1
33:10 34:7 20:6 26:13,14 yeah 21:2 39:10 06-2268 1:8 1884 103:22
40:13 53:14 07 50:17,18
35:4,7 42:18 26:15,16,17,21 19-1814 108:6
44:6,8 53:10 26:22 44:18 66:9 68:12 196 124:10
69:6,7 70:6 1
60:9 63:21 47:13 57:21,22 1966 143:1
64:5,6 71:10 60:16,17 64:4 75:3 84:13,18 1 4:9 70:21,22
98:19 101:6 73:8 133:23,24 1979 8:17 9:14
73:6 81:3 64:5,11,12,22 139:8 140:14 1981 10:2
108:14 109:1 64:23 65:4 104:6 109:8
110:18 112:15 142:22 145:14 1983 10:2 22:24
111:24 116:5 68:11,13 79:7 23:15
121:13 151:5 115:2 119:24 120:23 126:10 10 128:18 1984 11:12
129:3 135:4 10-1436 142:12
154:23 159:9 131:18 132:3,5 10-1796 127:3 106:22
we've 12:12 139:20 143:5,7 138:20 141:9 1986 111:4,5
145:24 148:12 100-year 121:8

PINNER, RICHARD B.
7/17/2008
Page 185
1989 8:22 48:10,18,25 2:23

1999 56:2,9 49:2,14 50:4 703 106:7
59:8,23 60:11 72668 103:1
2 62:5,14,18 7400 1:12 2:22
2 4:10 93:14,16 67:22 114:23 6:2
100:10 302 114:19 79 11:6 12:6
20 38:5,16,16 357 108:9 13:11
200 90:1 111:12 360 108:8
113:11,15,18 8
200-foot 113:20 4 81 10:3,5,5 11:6
2000 54:1 132:24 4 101:25 117:23 12:6 13:11
133:20,21 155:11 81-254 125:17
134:15 135:21 400 117:24 83 10:3,5,6 11:7
2001 133:21 42-1/2 142:21 13:25 17:7
134:15 42.5 145:13 18:7,12,13
2002 150:3 23:19
2004 54:2,3 55:5 5 84 53:10,15,20
55:23 103:7 5 155:11 53:25 54:7
20044 2:16 5.0 142:23 55:5,18,23
2005 23:15 56:2 145:15 85 107:10
56:9 103:7 50 110:13 855 2:5
157:20 504-525-1335 86 111:11
2006 157:20 2:7 888 2:14
2008 1:14 161:25 504-862-2843
202-616-4289 2:24 9
2:17 533 141:19 9 143:9 145:12
23 111:5 56 153:23 147:14,18
24 111:11 580 110:19 9.0 142:21
25 22:12 36:25 585+00 111:8,14 93 4:10
38:15 107:7 591 110:19 95 115:2
26 53:2 591+00 111:8,15 950 117:25
2688 103:1 96 53:16,20 54:8
278 108:9 6 54:9,10
28-45 110:13 6 4:5 97 127:3
291 114:23 64 98:11 108:8
298 116:11,11 67 109:5
3 7
3 4:11 100:10 7 111:5
142:25 145:17 7-1858 149:1
159:12,13 7-1882 103:22
30 22:13 78:18 7-1967 147:24
123:2 142:22 7-3321 155:15
145:14 70 4:9
300 31:6 35:6 70113 2:6
37:1 38:2 42:3 70118 6:3
42:11,22 47:11 70118-3651 1:13

1 (Pages 1 To 4)

Uploaded by

Document Information

Original Title

Copyright

Available Formats

Share this document

Share or Embed Document

Sharing Options

Did you find this document useful?

Is this content inappropriate?

Copyright:

Available Formats

1 (Pages 1 To 4)

Uploaded by

Copyright:

Available Formats

PINNER, RICHARD B.

UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

1 APPEARANCES: 1 EXAMINATION INDEX

1 STIPULATION 1 although I would like to believe it. And if

1 within the engineering department? 1 Q. Can you identify the sections?

1 same of the software, like Time Slips or -- 1 right?

1 No. Richard, don't do that to me 1 EXAMINATION BY MR. BRUNO:

1 back on plane here. I certainly want to keep 1 A. Yes. New works.

1 meant that the operations division would notify 1 A. Correct.

1 top of the division making the notification, 1 control structure?

1 A. In a certain stratum, yes. 1 analysis already done outside the stability

1 there? 1 that I just talked about. And we know,

1 assessment. I mean, it might have no impact on 1 A. Okay.

1 Q. Okay. 1 MR. BRUNO:

1 MR. STONE: 1 I mean, you do engineering assessments

1 if you want to ask him anything about 1 got to do it.

1 assessment. Right? 1 that it may be that the proposal may be written

1 MR. BRUNO: 1 that. You do the local, global and

1 A. Okay. 1 MR. TREEBY:

1 A. My opinion, yes. 1 water against which the levee is designed to

1 A. Okay. 1 design the levee? What information do you need

1 Q. Well, okay. 1 conditions.

1 considerations of some differential types of 1 A. Construction of the levees? I mean,

1 there that would control against the height of 1 A. I have no idea.

1 other side. 1 EXAMINATION BY MR. BRUNO:

26 (Pages 101 to 104)

1 supplied them all that information. 1 guess. It so happened, Chalmette battlefield

27 (Pages 105 to 108)

1 A. That was more or less if we're 1 A. Correct.

28 (Pages 109 to 112)

1 the rock dike is. 1 to semi-compacted fill?

29 (Pages 113 to 116)

30 (Pages 117 to 120)

31 (Pages 121 to 124)

1 Q. And the idea is that because sand is 1 A. Construction sand?

32 (Pages 125 to 128)

1 Q. -- a general specification, right? I 1 conditions.

1 things. 1 request by someone to folks in the engineering

33 (Pages 129 to 132)

1 A. It looks like it's flood protection 1 Q. The Galvez Street wharf --

34 (Pages 133 to 136)

35 (Pages 137 to 140)

36 (Pages 141 to 144)

37 (Pages 145 to 148)

1 to me. MVD 7-1858 in seriatim to 1873. 1 MR. BRUNO:

38 (Pages 149 to 152)

1 A. Correct. 1 we need in a certain location around -- that

1 MR. STONE: 1 design of an I-wall based on our cantilevered

39 (Pages 153 to 156)

1 opinions? 1 for the Corps.

40 (Pages 157 to 160)

41 (Pages 161 to 162)

A 138:12 161:6 120:22 121:21 67:16,21 68:2

Johns Pendleton Court Reporters 800 562-1285

authorizing 90:12,18 142:18,21 147:5 157:22 36:10,14 37:7

Johns Pendleton Court Reporters 800 562-1285

109:14 139:2 car 54:24 115:25 11:9 20:1 comes 19:13,18

Johns Pendleton Court Reporters 800 562-1285

131:5 90:22 151:21 114:19 119:16 112:24 114:9 150:11 151:7

Johns Pendleton Court Reporters 800 562-1285

dates 121:18 19:4,16 20:7 80:1,3,11,12 41:24 115:24 155:4,7

Johns Pendleton Court Reporters 800 562-1285

Johns Pendleton Court Reporters 800 562-1285