Let's Talk Bitcoin!

Episode 11 - Armory & Gli.ph Security Double Feature Participants:

Adam B. Levine (ABL) - Host Rob Banagale (RB) CEO and Co-founder of Gli !" #n$. Alan Reiner (AR) Lead %evelo er of Armor& 'allet ABL: Hi" and (el$ome to a s e$ial e isode of Let)s *al+ Bit$oin. ,rom t!e -.t! to t!e -/t! of 0a&" (e blan+eted t!e Bit$oin 12-3 $onferen$e at 4an 5ose" California. 6ntil (e $an get all t!is $ontent from our !ard drives to &our ears" &ou $an e7 e$t fre8uent releases of intervie(s from t!e s!o(. *oda&" #)m leased to bring &ou a se$urit& fo$us double-intervie( s!o( (it! t(o ver& interesting gentlemen. Later in t!is e isode" # s ea+ (it! Alan Reiner" Lead at Armor& 'allet" m& ersonal favorite 9t!is: s a$e. %uring our (ide-ranging $onversation" (e tal+ about multi- art ba$+u s" multi-signer (allets" t!e teeter-totter of se$urit& vs. ease of use" moving enormous Armor& to Android" o en sour$e to full-time" ioneering in a ne( s a$e ; Armor& for alt$oins. But first" # <oin Rob Banagale of t!e Gli ! se$ure $ommuni$ations latform" (!ere (e dis$uss granular identit& $ontrol" $loa+ed email addresses" Bit$oin integration" la&ing t!e =C game" lo$+do(n se$urit&" online (allets" ass(ord re$over& vs. true se$urit&" and lots more. RB: Been around for about a &ear and a !alf no(. #t>s a startu out of ?ortland" Oregon" and (!at (e)ve built is - (e $all it identit& latform" and (!at t!at means is &ou $an store &our ersonal information in it and &ou $onne$t (it! ot!er users. But t!e e7$iting feature t!at (e announ$ed toda& t!at !as been... is on t!e front age of ?ando%ail& rig!t no( - is t!e abilit& to send bit$oin to ot!er eo le reall& easil&. 4o (e !ave a $!at interfa$e" li+e a normal te7ting interfa$e" and it)s se$ure it>s a se$ure te7ting environment" and &ou $an atta$! bit$oin to a message as easil& as &ou do a i$ture message. 4o it)s rett& $ool and (e <ust broug!t it online t!is morning. ABL: 4o no(" (e)ve been tal+ing" +ind of" over &our latform for t!e last t(o (ee+s or so as (e)ve been getting read& for t!is intervie(. #t)s li+e a se$ure identit& latform t!at does t!e te7t messaging li+e &ou)re sa&ing" but it also !as a $ou le of ot!er elements to it. One of t!em is" &ou +no(" t!e name is Gli !" and one of t!e t!ings t!at is sort of uni8ue about it is t!at rat!er t!an !aving a name-based identit&" &ou +no( de fa$to - somet!ing li+e m& email is adam@letstal+bit$oin.$om" instead of t!at" #)ve a $ou le of i$tograms basi$all&" t!at #)ve i$+ed for m&self and used to identif& m&self on t!e net(or+ and t!en if somebod& (ants to find me" instead of loo+ing for m& name" t!e& loo+ for t!at arti$ular $ombination" t!e&

sear$! for t!at arti$ular $ombination t!at # give t!em. 4o !o( did t!at $ome aboutA '!at (as t!e de$ision t!at led &ou to t!e Gli ! s&stemA RB: *!at)s a good 8uestion. 'ell t!is (as ver& earl& on" (e +ne( (e (anted to !ave somet!ing ver& novel" be$ause (e)d be laun$!ing somet!ing t!at (as fairl& unfamiliar # mean (!& (ould &ou need a digital identit&A *!is (as ba$+ in 5anuar& of 12--" and (e (anted to !ave somet!ing t!at (ill be +ind of interesting and $ool and ver& $onsumer-oriented" be$ause (e +ne( (e (anted to !ave somet!ing t!at eo le on Craigslist (ould feel li+e t!e& $ould i$+ u . *!e Gli ! - 9G L # ? H: - it>s s elled t!at (a&" is a$tuall& s!ort for Hierogl& !" it>s +ind of a (eird miss elling t!ere" but t!at>s +ind of a referen$e to t!e s&mbol-based usernames. 'e t!in+ it>s reall& a $ool (a& to s!o( off (!o &ou are but also (e (anted to rovide a (a& for eo le to be identified (it!out roviding ersonal information" so no( &ou are $omfortable s!aring adam@letstal+bit$oin.$om but if &our email address is adam.levine@gmail.$om" # !o e it>s not" # !o e # didn>t <ust give it a(a&" but if it (as" &ou +no( &ou mig!t not (ant t!at out t!ere on an&bod& &ou meet" it ma&be t!at &ou (ant to $onne$t (it! somebod& but &ou don>t (ant to s!are &our email address (it! t!em. -And t!at>s totall& $ool" t!ere s!ould be no reason not to do t!at. 4o (e $ame u (it! t!is as a $reative (a& around t!at" to rovide a (a& for eo le a !andle t!at eo le $an use" instead of t!e letters and numbers (a& to do it. ABL:*al+ing about t!e latform" on$e &ou !ave t!at identit&" t!en &ou $an do more t!an <ust messaging (it! it. Bou mention Craigslist" and one of t!e fe( s$enarios t!at (e tal+ed about rett& earl& on in t!is $onversation (as t!e idea t!at Craigslist doesn>t rote$t &ou" as a user" from !aving essentiall& &our email get out to somebod& (!o <ust res onds in +ind of a non-$ommittal (a&. Bou +no(" # mean" it mig!t ma+e sense for t!em to !ave &our real email address at some oint in t!e $onversation but not ne$essaril& earl& on" and so &ou !ave a rodu$t t!at &ou $all s!rouds or... RB: Cloa+ing. ABL: ..$loa+sA RB: *!at>s rig!t. ABL: Bea!" so !o( do t!ose (or+A Ho( does t!at being a fun$tional form of $ommuni$ationA rote$t &our identit& (!ile still

RB: '!at>s robabl& a im ortant 8uestion is rote$ting &our riva$& on Craigslist. #n t!e ast" it !as been a $!allenge. 6suall& (!at !a ened (as &ou (ould get one side of it" anon&mit&" but on$e &ou>ve re lied" it (ould reveal &our email address. -And sometimes s ammers (ould use" &ou +no(" re lies to <ust $olle$t email

addresses and it (as a roblem. Co( interestingl&" (e laun$!ed t!is rodu$t in August" it>s $alled Cloa+ed Email" and it (as for Craigslist and it (or+ed great and eo le loved it" and it still does. Alt!oug!" in Covember Craigslist started testing t!eir o(n t(o-(a& email anon&miDing servi$e" (!i$! (e (ere a little bit sur rised to see on t!e !eels of our>s be$ause Craigslist doesn>t innovate ver& 8ui$+l&. 4o t!e& did re$entl& build it in" &ou sign u for some servi$e.. ABL: eBa&. RB: ...eBa&" (!atever" AmaDon &ou $an use a Gli ! $loa+ed email to do it. 'e built t!at rodu$t in art to !el get tra$tion around our $ore identit& and messaging tool. 'e needed to build somet!ing t!at (as useful" t!at (as +ind of outside of our e$os&stem - t!at (ould interfa$e (it! t!e outside (orld. -And t!at>s +ind of (!at (e reall& built it for" but it still fits in reall& (ell (it! some $ore values (e !ave" (!i$! is !el ing eo le reserve t!eir riva$&" (!en t!e& (ant to. ABL: '!en (e>re tal+ing about t!e messaging s&stem" &ou>re tal+ing about $ontrolling &our identit& $ontrolling" &ou +no(" &our riva$&" basi$all& one of t!e t!ing (si$) t!at $omes into t!at is t!at t!e& $an>t... t!e& are en$r& ted bot! (a&s" rig!tA # mean" t!is is a s&stem (!ere it>s +ind of im ossible to inter$e t (ords (!ereas (it! standard te7t messages t!at>s not reall& t!e $aseA RB: Rig!t" absolutel&. *!at>s reall& t!e $ore as e$t of it. # mentioned riva$&" but se$urit& is reall& im ortant as (ell" and (e t!in+ t!at sometimes t!ose t!ings bot! go !and-in-!and. And t!at +ind of... '!at Gli ! does is" (!en &ou $reate an a$$ount" it $reates a set of ubli$ and rivate +e&s be!ind t!e s$enes. -And (!en &ou $onne$t (it! someone" for instan$e &ou and # are $onne$ted on Gli ! rig!t no(" it en$r& ts t!e data t!at>s s!ared bet(een us" before it)s stored on t!e server. 4o and (!en it)s in transit" it)s en$r& ted b& 44L. -And so t!e $onne$tion t!e data assing from t!e devi$e to t!e server is en$r& ted and before it is saved to t!e server" for a loo+ u later" it>s also en$r& ted. Co(" t!at means t!at (e $an do some reall& interesting t!ings - one of t!em is t!at (e offer t!e abilit& to delete" se$urel& delete messages. 4o" sin$e it>s !osted messaging" &ou $an delete a message ermanentl&. -And if &ou delete it" it deletes it on m& end too. And (e don>t mar+ messages as deleted on our server and our database" (e delete t!em. *!e&>re goneE 4o t!at>s reall& $ool and it>s a$tuall& used 8uite a bit on Gli ! toda&. And anot!er t!ing t!at (e got" it>s more related to t!e $r& togra !& (e are dis$ussing" is t!at (e !ave t!is t!ing $alled Lo$+do(n ?riva$&. 4o (!at t!is is somet!ing t!at &ou ma& !ave seen on some ot!er servi$es more re$entl& but (!at it does is &ou $an turn off ass(ord reset. *!is isn>t $ommonl& understood b& eo le" but if &ou forget &our ass(ord" and &our data is en$r& ted" t!e onl& (a& for &ou to reset &our ass(ord is if t!e server !as some additional !ig!er-level master ass(ord to de$r& t &our data and re-en$r& t it using t!e ne(l& $!osen ass(ord. 4o (!at (e do is" (e allo( &ou to sa&" loo+ if # forget m& ass(ord m& data $an be gone. #>m o+a& (it! t!at. And (!at t!at means is t!at even Gli ! administrators or" &ou +no(" (e !ave te$!ni$ians do(n t!e line" t!e& $an)t ossibl&

de$r& t &our data if &ou>ve turned on t!is feature. -And (e a$tuall& allo( &ou - &ou and # - $an turn on Lo$+do(n individuall& on our a$$ounts and # $an see t!at &ou !ave it turned on and &ou $an see t!at # !ave it turned on. And so it allo(s us to !ave a ver& strong $omfortable feeling t!at if for some reason our database (as !a$+ed" &ou +no( t!at (ould be ver& unfortunate" but if t!at (as to !a en or if our data (as re8uested b& a t!ird art&" and (e>re $om elled to give t!at data over" t!at it (ould be rote$ted. ABL: Rig!t. RB: 4o t!at>s a rett& e7$iting feature about somet!ing (e>ve built. ABL: *!at is interesting. #t>s interesting t!at &ou>ve ta+en it from +ind of" bot! (a&s" t!at>s it>s not on b& default but if it)s somet!ing t!at eo le (anna do t!en t!e& $an o t-in. 4o # mean" be$ause it seems li+e (!en it $omes to t!ese se$ure $ommuni$ation latforms t!at are ultimatel& enabled b& a t!ird art&" be$ause &ou are tal+ing about !osted messages (!i$! means t!at t!e& fun$tionall& live in t!e $loud" and instead of on a relative devi$e. Co( let me as+ &ou about t!at. RB: 4ureE ABL: Even (!en # (as able to" (!en # (as... &ou +no( (e>ve been +ind of floating from a 'i-,i oint to 'i-,i oint (it! m& i?ad" and even (!en (e (ere not in $onta$t" # (as still able to see t!e messages t!at # alread& do(nloaded. 4o (!en on$e t!e& are do(nloaded" t!e& are t!en !osted on t!e lo$al ma$!ineA RB: *!at is - de ending on t!e devi$e" t!ere>s limited $a$!ing. # t!in+ (e $a$!e for u to -2 minutes on t!e devi$e" but (e so far !ave not $om letel& trusted t!e se$ure s a$e of t!e devi$e to allo( t!em to be $a$!ed ermanentl&. ABL: O+. RB: # mean" t!at>s art of t!e se$urit& t!at (e>ve built. ABL: O+. RB: But &ou broug!t u a good oint (!i$! is t!at t!ere)s al(a&s $om romises bet(een t!e user e7 erien$e and t!e level of se$urit& rovided. #t (ould be robabl&... it mig!t be +ind of !eav&-!anded to for$e Lo$+do(n on ever&one. ?eo le forget ass(ords.

ABL: Rig!t. RB: # +no( be$ause eo le !ave reset ass(ord on Gli !. ABL: Corre$t. RB: -And # !ave reset ass(ords. 4o t!ere>s al(a&s t!ese diffi$ult $!oi$es to ma+e. -And one of t!e t!ings t!at (e do is tr& to at least offer t!e abilit& for advan$ed or o(er users to get t!e !ig! level se$urit& or riva$& t!e& (ant. -And it>s al(a&s a $!allenge to sa& F(!at does t!e default loo+ li+eAG ABL: Have &ou gu&s $on$e tualiDed" &ou +no(" # mean &ou>ve fun$tionall& reinvented t!e username (it! t!e Gli ! s&stem" so is t!ere an& t!oug!t about reinventing t!e ass(ord e7 erien$e (it! t!e Gli ! s&stem or somet!ing elseA # mean it <ust seems li+e" &ou +no(" &ou>re rig!t" eo le forget t!eir ass(ords. #" &ou +no(" tr& to be se$urit& $ons$ious" but even # re eat ass(ords in $ertain la$es <ust be$ause t!ere>s onl& so man&" &ou +no(" ten digits al !a numeri$" &ou +no(" non-(ord t!ings t!at # $an +ee in m& !ead at a time. 4o !ave &ou gu&s loo+ed into an& o tions for t!atA RB: *!at)s a reall& good 8uestion. ?ass(ord situation is a reall& !ard one. # mean" # t!in+ t!e best eo le (!o are doing t!e best <ob at it rig!t no( are t!e oneass(ord. # use t!em" fairl& a lot. # t!in+ t!at even 0oDilla !as a re$ent identit& t!ing t!at t!e&>re doing" t!at !as.. #>m not reall& familiar (it! it" but # believe is an attem t at tr&ing to resolve some as e$ts of t!e ass(ord. '!en it $omes do(n to it" &ou loo+ at somet!ing li+e Google ?lus and ,a$eboo+ and (!ere t!e& offer" t!e& offer - (!at do t!e& $all t!isA -H,ederated identit&"H t!is is (!at it>s $alled. ABL: O+. RB: '!ere &ou $an use t!ese ot!er servi$es to basi$all& aut!oriDe &ourself into ot!er eo le. ABL: Rig!tE RB: And &ou don)t !ave to remember man& of t!em" &ou <ust !ave to do an Oaut! or (!atever. OAut! to in order to do it. #n fa$t t!at)s !o( (e $onne$t to Coinbase for our Bit$oin t!ing.

ABL: 4o transitioning ba$+ into t!e Bit$oin to i$" so (e la&ed around t!at feature a little bit and it does re8uire a Coinbase a$$ount... RB: *!at>s rig!t" at t!is oint it does... ABL: ....are t!ere an& lans" so &ou said at t!is oint it does" (!at>s t!e future lanned for t!is" are &ou lanning and integrating &our o(n version of t!e Bit$oin A?#s so &ou $an do it dire$tl&" or is t!e lan to use a t!ird- art& enabler be$ause t!at>s not reall& t!e business t!at &ou>re inA RB: Let>s <ust.. let>s <ust to tal+ about Coinbase for a se$ond. ,irst" # mean (e>re reall& e7$ited about Coinbase and (!at t!e&>ve done. # mean" first" Brian and !is small team" so far" !ave done" !ave $reated a massivel& s$aling rodu$t" and t!e& also built an A?# t!at (or+s and an interfa$e t!at # t!in+ is" er!a s" t!e most userfriendl& rig!t no(" if &ou $om are it reall& to Go7" it>s <ust reall&" # t!in+" t!e $om etitor to t!at" (!i$! is +ind of amaDing... ABL: ...for !o( mu$! longer t!oug!" &ou +no(...A RB: (laug!s) ...&ea!" # mean it>s easier" # t!in+" to set on Coinbase. ?reviousl& Coinbase dire$tl& (as easiest (a& to send bit$oin online" using t!eir email s&stem. Ho efull&" (!at (e>ve done is" ta+en t!at and augmented it to ma+e it even easier for Gli !. -But (e>re ver& !a & (it! Coinbase and t!e reason (e $!ose t!em (as be$ause t!e& !ad a ublis!ed A?# t!at (as su orted" and t!e& (ere fairl& res onsive in getting ba$+ to us. 4o (e are reall& leased (it! Coinbase" even t!oug! a lot of eo le... # t!in+ t!e&>ve ta+en 8uite a lot of !eat in t!e $ommunit& and.. -but (!at #>ve seen is t!at it (or+s. And if &ou (ant to build on to of Coinbase as a develo er" &ou $an be su$$essful doing t!at. And also" # found t!at Brian Armstrong" !imself" !as been a$$essible to us" so t!at>s been reall& $oolE Co( (!at do (e do ne7tA *!ere are ot!er e-(allets out t!ere to integrate (it! and (!en it...-ABL: Let me interru t &ou !ere. 4o # !ave no roblem (it! online (allets. RB: O+a&. 4ure. 4o &ou (ant to tal+ about t!atA ABL: Bea!" (ell # mean t!at)s" +ind of" t!e t!ing is" &ou +no(" it reall& doesn)t matter to me (!i$! online (allet &ou>re using - t!e&>re all fine. #" &ou +no(" res e$t all t!e eo le (!o are doing it (!en # t!in+ t!at it>s a servi$e t!at $ertainl& some eo le demand. But # t!in+ t!at t!e se$urit& element of it" (e>ve +ind of alread& seen t!at even (it! t(o-fa$tor aut!enti$ation" &ou +no(" Blo$+$!ain (allets get busted all t!e time" and t!e& !ave t(o-fa$tor and.. roblem (it! Coinbase. # !ave a

RB: Rig!t. ABL: Bou +no(" # <ust don>t reall& see - !o( &ou get around t!atA 4o long as &ou !ave so mu$! value $entraliDed onto t!ese online sites. RB: Rig!t. 'ell" # t!in+ t!ere is a bun$! of stuff t!ere" so one t!ing is t!at t!ere)s a general o erational se$urit& issue on ?Cs toda&. # mean t!ere>s mal(are. # mean" # t!in+ (e (ere dis$ussing tal+ing about it>s mostl& a lot of mal(are !as been $ausing Blo$+$!ain stuff to get atta$+ed. Blo$+$!ain !as been atta$+ed be$ause t!e ma$!ines t!emselves eit!er !ave +e&-loggers or some ot!er t!ings. 0& understanding is t!at Blo$+$!ain itself !as not been $om romised. ABL: Corre$t. RB: But ot!er met!ods eit!er so$ial engineering or ot!er(ise !as $aused t!ose a$$ounts to be... a$$ounts to o$$asionall& be ta+en overI. ABL: # guess" (!at #>m <ust sa&ing is t!at" &ou +no(" &ou !ear about eo le getting t!eir a$$ounts robbed. RB: 6!-!u!. ABL: Bou !ear about t!at a little bit on des+to &ou !ear about is online $lients. RB: 4ure. ABL: 4o t!at ma+es me t!in+ t!at" &ou +no(" it>s t!e $entraliDation of value t!at ma+es t!em targets" and it doesn>t reall&" &ou +no(" so &ou>re rig!t # mean it robabl& is +e&-loggers on s e$ifi$ ma$!ines... RB: Rig!t. ABL: Bou +no(" # mean t!at)s somet!ing t!at #>ve definitel& been seeing is t!at as Bit$oin !as been ram ing u t!ere are a lot of tainted lin+s going around and eo le are getting" &ou +no(" eo le are li+e visiting a ne(s site and its do(nloading somet!ing real s$ar& to t!em" <ust be$ause t!e& (ent t!roug! a fun+& lin+ to it" or $lients. *!e vast ma<orit& of (!at

be$ause t!ose sites are $om romised. 4o" &ou +no(" # mean" (e>re +ind of tal+ing in $ir$les !ere but.... RB: Bea!" let me <ust <um ba$+ in" be$ause &ou mentioned.. - # t!in+ &ou>re rig!t. ,irst" it is +ind of a $on$ern to $entraliDe a lot of mone& in a (allet. 0& analog& #>d use is (!en &ou (al+ out t!e door of &our !ome (it! &our real (allet in &our - # mean !o( &ou sa& - &our !&si$al (allet t!at !as $as! mone& in it. Ho( mu$! are &ou (illing to (al+ out t!e door (it! in $ase somet!ing !a ensA # mean" most li+el& &ou are going to lose &our (allet. # mean" # don>t +no( anot!er erson (!o !asn>t lost t!eir (allet at some oint. 4o !o( mu$!I &ou onl& +ee as mu$! mone&... &ou learn from t!ose e7 erien$es" and &ou onl& +ee as mu$! mone& in &our (allet as &ou are (illing to lose" rig!tA 4o # mig!t ta+e" if &ou>re doing reall& (ell and &ou>re ver& $omfortable" &ou mig!t !ave 122 dollars (it! &ou at all times. # +no( some eo le (!o do somet!ing li+e t!at. But # ersonall& (ouldn>t even $arr& t!at mu$! mone& (it! me. # (ould treat an e-(allet" at least at t!is oint" as more li+e &our real (allet. # mean" !o( man& transa$tions" (!at +ind of value transa$tions (it! Bit$oin are &ou going to be doing (!ere &ou need to !ave a lot of bit$oin available at all times" from &our !one" or from...&ou +no(. And so (!at # (ould sa& is" at least for no(" and er!a s even going in t!e future" &ou (ouldn>t +ee vast sums. Bou +ee " &ou +no(" if &ou got man& bit$oins" &ou +ee t!at offline. # <ust don>t see a good reason to +ee it in t!eir 9online (allet:. As in our Fbest ra$ti$es"G (e suggest in using Gli ! (it! Coinbase. 4ame t!ing" (e don>t re$ommend &ou to +ee a lot of mone& in" a lot of bit$oin" in Coinbase at an& time. #t>s <ust &ou $ould be otentiall& setting &ourself u for dealing (it!... Bou>re basi$all& - &ou>re ma+ing &ourself a target... ABL: Bea!" t!at ma+es sense. 4o" # interru ted &ou (!en &ou (ere going to tal+ about (!at>s going to $ome ne7t... RB: O!" about t!e (allets. ABL: About t!e (allets. # am real $urious. RB: Bea! sure" (ell # mean" rig!t no( (e>re ver& fo$used on getting t!e e7 erien$e rig!t around Coinbase. 'e a$tuall& !ave (or+ to do to im rove t!e error messaging rig!t no(. 'e (ant to im rove a bun$! of different t!ings. *!is is our first. 'e !ad to get t!is out t!e door rig!t in time for t!e $onferen$e. 4o &ou)re going to see... before &ou see more a$tion on (allets &ou>re going to see a user e7 erien$e iteration or t(o. But follo(ing t!at (e love Blo$+$!ain. # t!in+ Blo$+$!ain (as more li+e it feels li+e it (as more built for bit$oin eo le first" and t!en t!e& introdu$ed t!e (allet almost as a (a& to sta& on to of it. And almost t!e fa$t t!at t!e& let &ou e7 ort &our" # believe" (allet and +ee it offline and ta+e it out" t!at>s great. But t!e& still offer an A?# at Blo$+$!ain. B#?4" out of Euro e" also offers an A?#. 4o t!ose are t!e la$es t!at (!ere (e $ould ver&" &ou +no( - (e (ould loo+ to integrate bot!

of t!ose. *!e&>re bot! strong (allets and # (ould love to see t!at (e go in t!at dire$tion. 9Advertisements: ABL: 'anna !ave an online store t!at a$$e ts bit$oinsA 5ust go to (((.o enbit$oinstore.$om and &ou $an !ave a store u and running before t!e end of t!is message. 5ust send &our email address and t!e store name and in less t!an 32 se$onds &ou>ll !ave a se$ure 'ord?ress e-$ommere$e site u and running t!at a$$e ts bit$oins and a&s &ou in $as! (it!in 1J !ours. And best of all" it>s $om letel& free. =isit (((.o enbit$oinstore.$om toda&" and o en for business no(. 9s!ort ause: ABL: Let>s *al+ Bit$oin is !eard ea$! (ee+ b& t!ousands of eo le (!o are arti$i ating in t!e ne( digital e$onom&. Our listener base of bit$oin o(ners" miners" investors" te$!nologists" and mer$!ants is gro(ing fast. 'e offer a limited number of s!ort advertising slots in ea$! s!o( to +ee our listeners engaged and to rovide ma7imum im a$t for our s onsors. #f &ou (ould li+e to tal+ to us about Let>s *al+ Bit$oin" send us an email at s onsors@letstal+bit$oin.$om. 9KAdvertisements:

RB: Great $onversation (as going and # (as li+e" t!is" it (ould be fun to" +ind of mess (it! t!e od$ast b& la&ing some funn& sounds during &our od$ast. 4o # (as gonna" a$tuall& # !ad an a t!at # (as <ust going to tr& and t!ro( some gongs in and stuff. ABL: 9laug!s: # t!in+ (e got enoug! of t!e... RB: 9laug!s: enoug! of t!e room... ABL: Enoug! of t!e ambient 9laug!s:. RB: # do !ave" before" # don>t +no( !o( $lose (e are to t!e end. -But # (anna ma+e sure" # get it to &ou" # gotta... ABL: *al+ for as long as &ou (ant. RB: O+a&" # got a gift for &ou. Here" and # (anted to give it to &ou live on t!e od$ast.

ABL: O+a&. RB: 4o #>m gonna get it" &ou mig!t !ave to edit it for a se$ond" (!ile # grab... ABL: *!at>s fine. Let>s see. RB: Bou>re t!e first erson to get one of t!ese. # boug!t t!em s e$ifi$all& for t!e $onferen$e... and... !ere &ou go. ABL: 9laug!s:I t!at>s greatE #t>s a - it>s a button t!at !as - sa&s Hfun meterH on it. Bit$oin 12-3. -And &ou $an move it from minimum to medium to ma7imum" (!i$! is t!e red level. ABL: 4o one of t!e ot!er announ$ements t!at $ame out toda& (as t!at &ou>ve been a$$e ted into t!e Boost =C fund in t!e Bit$oin rogram t!ere. RB: *!at>s rig!t. ABL: 4o" no(" !o( did t!at $ome aboutA %id &ou a roa$! t!emA *!e& a roa$!ed &ouA #s t!ere.. (as t!ere an a li$ation ro$ess t!at &ou (ent t!roug!A Be$ause it sounds li+e t!is is a rett& in-de t! rogram t!at &ou>re gonna be going t!roug!" (!ere &ou are literall& moving &our !ead8uarters to t!eirs. RB: *!at>s rig!t. ABL: 4o $an &ou tell me a little bit about t!atA #>m not sure !o( t!ese in$ubators (or+. RB: 4ure" so # mean if... #t>s robabl& (ort! mentioning t!at (e (ent t!roug! one seed in$ubator first" beginning of t!is last &ear in ?ortland $alled t!e ?ortland 4eed ,und. And no( it)s <ust - t!at got us" +ind of - $om an& going and started us (it! some initial mentors!i and got t!e $om an& reall& moving. # !eard about Boost =C (!ile sear$!ing" # mean" reading Bit$oin*al+ and sear$!ing t!e (eb. Adam %ra er" is one of t!e managing dire$tors of and some founders of Boost =C. 4o" adamdra er.$om" !e>s got a blog entr& and !e>s H'e love bit$oin and (e>re gonna ma+e a ortion of our ne( $lass at Boost =CH (t!is is t!e se$ond $lass" so it>s a fairl& ne( a$$elerator) Hfo$used on bit$oinH. And # sa( t!at" and m& e&es lit u " be$ause (e>re alread& in develo ment on t!is Bit$oin integration for Gli !. And... so # a$tuall& !unted do(n t!eir revious $lass. -All ten of t!em" and $old-emailed all of

t!em. And # (as li+e" #>d love to tal+ to &ou about Boost. And # got 3 meetings (it! t!ose fol+s. And t!en one of t!em offered ma+ing intro to Adam and Bra&ton" t!e t(o founders of Boost" (!i$! (as a(esome. And # ended u ... # (as... (ent do(n t!e valle& be$ause # !ad to... ma+e t!e tri do(n and a$tuall& met (it! a $ou le of different =C angels (!ile # (as do(n !ere" and - but m& meeting (it! Adam and Bra&ton (ent ver& su$$essful. # (as able to demo... t!is" (!at &ou... (!at (e released toda&. *!is (as (ell over a mont! ago" ma&be a mont! and !alf ago. And it (as" (e <ust got (or+ing" it (as +ind of li+e t(ine and gum ulling it toget!er" but it did (or+" and it did ma+e Coinbase mone& move" and it (as $ool. And t!e& (ere ver& e7$ited" it (as a great meeting. 'e follo(ed it u a $ou le of times" !e met m& $o-founder Ci$!olas >Ci$+> As$! and it" +ind of" <ust (ent from t!ere. #t (as rett& organi$" but # mean #>d be fran+" # mean" # !unted t!ese gu&s do(n. ABL: 4o li+e a mont! agoA RB: # mean... it (as robabl& about . (ee+s ago" somet!ing li+e t!at. ABL: #t>s not bad... RB: Bea!. ABL: *!at>s rett& fast rogress. 4o it sounds li+e t!e asso$iation (it! Bit$oin and Gli ! !as reall& been a ver& ositive t!ing for &ou gu&s. RB: # sa& absolutel&" and # <ust barel&... # mean" (!en &ou (al+ed into t!e room # !ad read about - # <ust got started reading t!at ?ando%ail& arti$le but it a$tuall& sa&s at t!e ver& beginning of it t!at our $om an& (as loo+ing for a use $ase" and t!en Bit$oin sailed in. And t!at)s a$tuall& +ind of true" # mean" (e... se$urit& and riva$& is not ver& (ell valued b& t!e general mainstream audien$es and t!e ubli$ rig!t no(. ABL: *!at>s been" +ind of" m& inter retation of it too is t!at" &ou +no(" li+e # <um ed on it and # (as li+e" Fo!" t!is is reall& $ool" t!is is eas& and # $an use it bot! on m& $om uterG be$ause # !ave been using &our (eb a li$ation (!i$! is basi$all& &ou +no( a virtualiDed !one. And t!en also #>ve been using it on m& tablet and m& !ones. And" &ou +no(" tr&ing to get m& eo le onto t!is s&stem !as been a $!allenge. Bou +no(" of t!e five or si7 eo le # !ave been li+e" F!e&" &ou s!ould be on t!is" # (ould li+e to use t!is (it! &ou"G # t!in+ ma&be t!ree" t(o !ave signed u " somet!ing li+e t!at. RB: Rig!t.

ABL: 4o do &ou t!in+ t!at Bit$oin is &our +iller a ma+es t!is all (or+A

!ereA *!at t!at>s t!e t!ing t!at

RB: 0a&be at t!e ver& beginning" &ou mentioned t!at it>s !ard to get eo le on t!e Gli ! rig!t no(. 'e feel t!at" for real. Li+e (e (ant to get... (e (ant t!is to !ave... be an eas& (a& to $onne$t (it! &our friends and to get eo le online. One is" t!e user e7 erien$e is gotta get to be... it>s got to be im roved to #0 message level" s eed and <ust t!e... it>s gotta be su er-sna &. And (e (ill $ontinue to (or+ on t!at. O! and anot!er t!ing t!at)s !ard for getting eo le online is" (e are ver& fo$used on riva$&" so (e don>t do t!ings li+e read &our address boo+ or s am all of &our $onta$ts" li+e Lin+ed#n. *!ere>s a lot of t!ings t!at $ould be done b& our servi$e" t!at (e !ave t!e te$!ni$al $a abilit& to do" but (e are s e$ifi$all& !olding ba$+ on be$ause (e (ant to build t!is more organi$all&. Also" (e are still building t!e rodu$t and ma+ing sure it>s rig!t" so # (anted to <ust address it. '!en it $omes do(n to getting eo le on t!e Gli !" it>s not as eas& as message me on '!atsa rig!t no( but t!at)s some(!ere on ur ose and # t!in+ &ou>re gonna see it im rove" es e$iall& over t!e in$ubation at Boost t!is summer. 4o (e are gonna be fo$using on ma+ing t!e on-board e7 erien$e easier. Li+e" definitel&" # feel &our ain. 5ust !eld u m& t!umb li+e Bill Clinton. ABL: 9laug!s: RB: # feel &our ain on t!at" and (e (ould be (or+ing !ard to ma+e it easier. 4o an&bod& listening (!o is tr&ing Gli ! and is li+e FHe$+E # $an>t get t!e Gli ! # (antG or (!atever" # !o e t!at &ou toug! t!roug! it for no( and &ou +no(" sti$+ (it! us for (e)re ma+ing it easier to use. ABL: 'e tal+ed about t!at too be$ause" &ou +no(" t!e ro$ess of finding someone or t!e ro$ess of sending someone &our Gli ! is sort of a manual ro$ess rig!t no( (!ere li+e - # +no( t!at for one of t!e eo le t!at # tal+ to" # literall& (rote out t!e names of m& Gli !s (!i$! # $an>t remember rig!t no(. 9laug!s: RB: Bes" 9laug!s:. Bea!" t!at is an issue. # mean" one t!ing t!at (e (anna do is ma+e t!is" it>s $alled dis$overabilit&" so (e" rig!t no(" don>t allo( &ou to be dis$overable b& &our email address. Bou $an>t sa& sear$! for adam@&oureamailaddress and !ave it o u . Co( (e are li+el& to loo+ at a (a&" or (e>re gonna loo+ at (a&s in order to ma+e it easier for eo le to $!oose to be dis$overable if t!e& (ant. 'e (ill al(a&s allo( eo le to be $om letel& s!rouded" as to use &our (ord earlier" if t!e& li+e. But (e do need to im rove dis$overabilit&" for sure. -And also t!e abilit& to $ommuni$ate &our Gli !. 'e do !ave a fe( of t!ese for our $om an&. 'e got some business $ards" !ave onl& t!e Gli !s and (e $all t!ese s&mbols Hartifa$tsH. 4o t!at" s&mbol t!emselves are artifa$ts" and t!e $olle$tion of artifa$ts is &our Gli !. 4o t!at mig!t ma+e it a little bit easier....

ABL: ... Bea!... RB: ... if &ou (anna meet somebod&. ABL: # t!in+ so. *!is is a $ool rodu$t" and # reall& !o e t!at &ou su$$eed (it! it. RB: *!an+s. ABL: # t!in+ t!at one of t!e t!ings t!at &ou>re running u against is" &ou +no(" &ou mentioned it earlier in t!e intervie(" t!at t!ere are <ust some in!erent $onfli$ts bet(een dis$overabilit& and riva$& and t!at" &ou +no(" it>s a... 'ell &ou +no(" t!at>s an as e$t t!at (e !aven>t tal+ed about. One of t!e interesting t!ings t!at # t!oug!t about Gli ! is t!at not onl& is it reall&" +ind of" granular identit& $ontrol" rig!t" (!ere &ou !ave t!is reall& generi$ - $an>t tell t!at it>s &ou signing on t!is identit& at t!e start in t!e Gli ! s&stem" but t!en &ou move from t!at and &ou $an o ulate (it! information" &ou $an o ulate it (it! &our real name" &our t(itter" &our real email address and on a erson-b&- erson" ie$e of information b& ie$e of information basis" &ou $an $!oose (!at &ou (anna reveal and (!en &ou (anna reveal it. #s t!at true of t!e bit$oin address tooA RB: Bes" t!is is... &ou !it on somet!ing reall& im ortant !ere" # guess" (e !aven>t reall& $overed t!is &et in t!is tal+ is it feels li+e" at first" t!at Gli ! is designed for eo le (!o don>t (ant an&one to +no( (!o t!e& are" and (e reall& allo( for anon&mous and ver&" ver& rivate stuff" but a$tuall& (!at (e are interested is in t!e full s e$trum of relations!i s. 4o t!ere are ver& trusted ones" li+e &ou and #. #>ve s!ared m& !one number fa$et (it! &ou and &ou s!ared &ours (it! mine on Gli !. 'e trust ea$! ot!er enoug! to s!are ersonal information. *!at is information about &our identit& t!at !el s us to develo our relations!i furt!er. 4o at t!e oint... to t!e oint (!ere # $an" if... let>s sa& t!at # o(e &ou mone&. # (ould !ave no roblem sending &ou bit$oin rig!t no( be$ause # +no( t!at t!at>s Adam on t!e ot!er side of t!is Gli ! $onne$tion. Co( t!at>s somet!ing t!at &ou don>t ne$essaril& get out of t!e bit$oin roto$ol overall. ABL: Corre$t. RB: Bit$oin isn)t ne$essaril& meant to offer identit& around t!e (allet addresses. 4o (!at (e)re reall& tr&ing to do" t!e vision t!at (e !ave moving for(ard is to allo( eo le to ta+e and develo a real digital identit& t!e (allet addresses $an be $onne$ted to. 4o t!at" if &ou>re meeting somebod& online" let>s sa& t!at &ou aren>t even gonna be able to meet t!em in erson" &ou $an !ave a (a& to at least be more $omfortable (it! (!o t!e& are - t!at it>s a legitimate real erson. *!at means t!at (e>ll be loo+ing at (a&s to !el allo( for validation of ersonal data. And to

fo$us on t!at briefl&" if &ou)ve been follo(ing Airbnb" for e7am le" t!e& did a... t!e& are" # t!in+ Airbnb is er!a s t!e greatest e7am le of eer-to- eer mar+et la$e t!at>s develo ed ne7t to Gli !" (!ere eo le are literall& sta&ing in ea$! ot!er>s !omes be$ause t!e& trust ea$! ot!er enoug! to do so. *!at>s somet!ing t!at" # mean" our entire team is ver& e7$ited about as a eer-to- eer s!aring e$onom& and (!at $an !a en around t!at. And t!e onl& (a& to reall& $ome to t!e oint (!ere &ou>re (illing to s!are (it! a stranger is to trust t!em a little bit. And t!at means revealing information about &ourself. 4o (!at (e reall& (anna do (it! Gli ! is allo( eo le (!en it)s... (!en t!e& (ant to" to o en u . *o s!are more information about t!emselves so &ou $an do more be$ause if &ou $an trust somebod&" t!en &ou $an ride (it! t!em in t!eir $ar" &ou $an sta& at t!eir !ome" &ou $an bu& a ie$e of ele$troni$s and +no( it>s not gonna be a lemon rig!t a(a&" or t!at if it is" t!e&>re gonna be somebod& (!o (ould !el &ou out (it! t!at. And if (e>re going to be more effi$ient as a so$iet&" and (e>re going to be more $ommunit&-based" (!i$! is # t!in+ t!at t!e dire$tion (e>re !eaded" t!en (e>re gonna need me$!anisms ele$troni$ me$!anisms" for us to $onne$t (it! ea$! ot!er and $ome to trust strangers. And t!at>s reall& somet!ing t!at (e>re after. Co(" t!e $ool t!ing about bit$oin is t!at &ou $an !ave t!at s e$trum" &ou $an... F# don>t +no( &ou t(o" # +no( t!is erson reall& (ell.G And (e>re loo+ing to do is tr& and address t!at dire$tl&. ABL: 4o t!ere are t(o follo(-u s !ere and t!en # t!in+ #>m out of 8uestions. RB: O+a&. ABL: *!e first one is" &ou +no(" &ou>re tal+ing about identit& and &et &ou !ave fun$tionall& a $losed s&stem. Are t!ere an& lans to offer an A?# so t!at let>s sa& if # (anted to use... &ou +no(" if # (anted to use m& Gli ! as a forum of identit&" and # didn>t (anna ne$essaril& atta$! m& real name to it. #s t!at somet!ing" &ou +no(" t!at &our s&stem (ould eventuall&" &ou +no(" a$$ommodate" or are &ou more fo$used entirel& on t!is" on" &ou +no(" ever&t!ing living inside of t!e Gli ! a li$ation and it being able to route" &ou +no(" messages" and bit$oins" and all t!ese ot!er t!ings" or is t!ere a lan to e7 and it out so it $an be used in ot!er formatsA RB: *!is is a good 8uestion. 4o one t!ing is t!at (e reall& believe in data ortabilit& and o(ners!i of ersonal data. 4o (e don>t la& $laim to &our data. #f it belongs to &ou" (e (ould... &ou $an loo+ at our riva$& oli$& and our terms and (e don>t... (e (ill never sell or mar+et &our data. #t)s u to &ou to de$ide (!o &ou s!are (it! and (!en. And t!at>s a ver& uni8ue as e$t of our business" is" (e don>t !ave an advertising based business. 'e don>t monetiDe &our $urrent.. Bour data is" in fa$t" en$r& ted. 4o (e $ouldn)t ma+e Ad(ords off of it" for e7am le. *o o en... &our 8uestion dire$tl& about (!et!er (e (ill o en it u " # absolutel&" #>d love to o en u t!e Gli ! latform u to develo ers to build on. 'e need to +ee (or+ing to ma+e it robust...

ABL: Rig!t. RB: ...and useful first. But # believe in a future (e (ould be allo(ing t!at" absolutel&. ABL: O+a&" and t!e ot!er t!ing is almost more of a $omment t!an an&t!ing else. Bou +no(" eo le are tal+ing about t!is s!aring e$onom& and # t!in+ it>s reall& interesting be$ause" &ou +no(" it>s not li+e t!is is t!e first time it>s !a ened. #t>s <ust li+e over t!e last ma&be -L &ears as t!e #nternet !as be$ome so ervasive" it)s li+e (e)ve lost it. Bou +no(" it)s li+e t!e relations!i s !ave transited online - instead of !aving real friends" &ou !ave ,a$eboo+ friends. And" &ea!" &ou !ave a lot more but are t!e& reall& &our friendsA %o &ou reall& +no( t!emA 4o # mean" # t!in+" # +ind of agree (it! &ou - t!is is li+e almost li+e if &ou $an get t!e identit& 8uestion rig!t t!en &ou $an almost bootstra legitimate friends!i into t!is +ind of global lo$al t!ing t!at (e>re doing. 4o" # mean" for &ou" is it about t!e global lo$alA RB: # do t!in+ t!at t!ere>s a !uge advo$ate for eo le $onne$ting (it! eo le in t!eir $ommunit&. # mean" # t!in+ t!at (e" b& +no(ing &our neig!bor" (e $an be a better so$iet& t!roug! +no(ing ea$! ot!er better. ABL: %o &ou +no( &our neig!borsA RB: # do +no( m& neig!bors. ABL: O+a&. RB: But not ver& (ell 9laug!s:... ABL: 9laug!s: RB: # s!ould $onne$t (it! t!em on Gli !. But # guess # oug!t to $omment t!at # t!in+ t!ere !as been a bun$! of t!is. 'e sa( t!is suburban t!ing !a en" &ou +no(" in t!e 6nited 4tates. *!ere)s an aut!or" 'illiam 6 s+i 'imsatt" (!o (rote t!is boo+ $alled HBomb t!e 4uburbs"H (!i$! is +ind of a violent sounding name for a boo+" but # re$ommend it to an&one on t!is od$ast. #t)s a s!ort boo+ (!ere !e tal+s about urban areas being va$ated as eo le moved out to t!e suburbs" (!ere eo le +ind of isolated t!emselves. And # t!in+ t!at" +ind of t!at... rig!t after (e" +ind of" t!e suburban e7 ansion (e !ad t!e #nternet" +ind of" $ome in it almost +ind of li+e $reated an additional $omfort blan+et for being se arated from ot!er eo le. But as (e !ave t!e mobile no(" &ou $an be an&(!ere &ou (ant and &ou $an be $onne$ted. Bou $an no( go out to t!ese la$es and still" +ind of" !ave t!is #nternet e7 erien$e. And # do t!in+ t!at t!at is gonna !el drive... #t $reates t!e o ortunit& for eo le to

be $onne$ting in erson and t!en also !ave t!ese online relations!i s. 4o #>m reall& e7$ited about (!ere t!at>s gonna go. 9Advertisement: ABL: Ever&one +no(s t!at offline storage is t!e onl& safe (a& to store &our bit$oins" but no( t!ere is an eas&" $onvenient and se$ure (a& to ma+e Bit$oin (allets for safe offline storage. 'it! t!is safe a er (allet +it &ou get ever&t!ing &ou need to rint Bit$oin (allets using &our o(n ?C. 4tore t!em in a safe de osit bo7" &our !ome safe or even in &our so$+ dra(er. An&t!ing is more se$ure t!an +ee ing t!em online. Get &our +it no( at safe a er(allet.$om 9KAdvertisement:

ABL: # !ave tried to use" li+e" R4A en$r& tion before" and #>ve used a $lause" (!i$! is a - (!i$! is a derivative of # believe one of t!e 0oDilla email $lients. RB: O+a&. ABL: *!at" &ou +no(" t!at !as built-in R4A en$r& tion and it>s a real 9$ensored:.. (laug!s all around) ABL: ...and it>s !ard to use" and &ou (ind u not using it be$ause it>s !ard. RB: Bea!. ABL: And so # mean to... it seems li+e more t!an an&t!ing else" &ou +no(" &ou>re iling useabilit& $ases on !ere" &ou>re adding t!e email" &ou>re adding t!e bit$oin but at t!e $ore of it reall& is <ust t!is - ma+ing se$ure $ommuni$ations and se$ure identit& eas&. RB: Bea!. # t!in+ #>d sa& t!at a ver& broad goal (ould be to ma+e Gli ! be a universal identit&. Bou +no( if someone !as a Gli !" &ou $an $onne$t (it! t!em and &ou>ll be able to s!are data" &ou>ll be able to tal+ (it! t!em and send mone& (it! t!em" t!ere>s all t!ese great use $ases t!at if &ou <ust" if # <ust +ne( t!eir Gli !" instead of li+e" if &ou !ave t!eir !one number &ou $an $all t!em or te7t t!em. ABL: Rig!t. ain in t!e

RB: ...and bot! of t!ose $an be ta ed or re$orded or... and t!e& are not se$ure. 4o li+e" # t!in+ some of t!ese traditional !andles" basi$all& tin& identities" are anti8uated and #>d love to see Gli ! $ome in and basi$all& $ome in and re la$e all t!ose. Absolutel&. ABL: 4o (e>re at t!e $onferen$e" (!at tal+ are &ou most e7$ited about or &ou gonna get to see an& tal+s or are &ou at t!e boot! t!e (!ole timeA RB: #... #>m gonna be at t!e boot! a lot" so #>ll be t!ere (it! our mer$!ant stuff. #>m a$tuall& s ea+ing on a anel on 4aturda&. *!ere>s a finan$ial riva$& and la( enfor$ement anel and (e>ll be robabl& tal+ing about t!e %H4" (!i$! (e>ve alread& tal+ed about on &our od$ast !ere. ABL: 'e !aven>t tal+ about it &et be$ause (e" &ou +no(" (e reloaded t!e s!o(s. RB: O! t!at>s rig!t" so it>s $oming #>m sure. ABL: Bea!. RB: 0a&be before t!is" (!o +no(s. But t!e... (e>ll tal+ about %H4" so #>m e7$ited about our o(n anel but t!ere>s" # mean" t!ere are so man& great s ea+ers !ere. #>m loo+ing for(ard to" es e$iall& t!e funded entre reneurs anel" so # t!in+ t!at broug!t bot! Brians on t!at" and #>m loo+ing for(ard to seeing t!ose gu&s on stage and +ind of get in t!e moderator and t!e audien$e grilling. # sa( $alls for" on Bit$oin*al+" for a lot of servi$es to get u in front of us and +ind of ans(er t!e 8uestions. 4o under t!e ubli$ fire and under t!e audien$e fire" it>d be $ool to observe t!at for sure. ABL: Bea!" absolutel&. RB: Ho( about &ourselfA '!at are &ou loo+ing for(ard to seeingA ABL: 0ostl& # !ave meetings (!ile #>m !ere (laug!s). Honestl& t!at>s +ind of t!e t!ing t!at>s going on for me. #>m loo+ing for(ard to meeting our listenersM it)s (!at #>m doing. 'e !ave t!at at noon toda& and (e>ll robabl& do anot!er one tomorro(. Bou +no(" as far as t!e anels are $on$erned t!ere>s one t!at 4te !anie>s doing on $!arit&. # t!in+ t!at one>s gonna be reall& interesting be$ause # t!in+ t!at t!e use s$enarios... RB: '!at>s t!at aboutA

ABL: #t>s basi$all& about !o( Bit$oin... (ell" &ou +no(" t!is is +ind of a t!eme t!at $omes u over and over again for (!at (e>re tal+ing about (it! Bit$oin" is t!at t!e large users don>t reall& !ave a lot of in$entive" be$ause it>s alread& eas& for t!em" t!e& are alread& integrated into e7isting a&ment ro$essing net(or+s. *!e&>re alread&" &ou +no(" # mean" t!e& alread& !ave enoug! s$ale t!at t!e little stuff +ind of doesn>t matter to t!em. But for eo le (!o started off small" &ou +no(" li+e t!e analog& !ere (it! $!arit& is" &ou +no(" if &ou got a foundation t!at brings in fifteen million dollars a &ear" $!an$es are rett& good t!at &ou>re !ave t!e staff t!at is in $!arge of" &ou +no(" going out and soli$iting donations and tal+ing to otential large donors (!o $an ma+e t!e stuff !a en for &ou. And t!e bottom line is t!at be&ond t!e $!arit& art" &ou>ve also got t!e infrastru$ture art. And (!at !a ens is t!at (it!" &ou +no(" small t!ings" (!et!er t!e& be $!arities or (!et!er - # mean" &ou +no(" our od$ast is anot!er e7am le of t!at - &ou don>t reall& !ave t!e abilit& to devote all of &our time to t!at or to devote a (!ole bun$! of eo le>s time to solving t!at funding roblem. 4o (it! Bit$oin" it>s interesting be$ause &ou !ave no $osts fun$tionall&" sin$e all t!e $osts are borne b& t!e erson (!o>s sending t!e transa$tion" as su osed to t!e erson t!at>s re$eiving it" &ou don>t ne$essaril& !ave t!e same re orting re8uirement" alt!oug! t!at>s reall& somet!ing t!at>s u for debate rig!t no(. RB: 4ure. ABL: -And <ust in general" t!ings get a lot easier be$ause (it! Bit$oin t!ere basi$all& is no minimum barrier to entr&" it)s li+e" &ou +no( it>s li+e .2- $ents" as o osed to &ou +no(" &ou $an a$8uaint &ou +no( - eo le don>t reall& donate t(o dollars to a $!arit&" but &ou mig!t donate .22L to a $!arit&. RB: Rig!t. ABL: 4o" &ou +no( t!at" # t!in+" is... t!at>s a reall& o(erful $on$e t. And it>s o(erful in t!e 6nited 4tates but it>s even more o(erful as &ou get out of t!e 6nited 4tates and move in to t!e t!ird (orld (!ere" &ou +no(" # mean t!ere (as a gentleman at t!e meet u last nig!t (!o !ad <ust !eard about Bit$oin in %e$ember in #ndia and !ad flo(n in for t!e event and (as sa&ing" &ou +no(" (!en are transa$tion fees are going to be somet!ing so t!at (!en # sent t(o !undred ru ees" #>m not a&ing t!irt& five ru ees in transa$tion fees. RB: Rig!t. ABL: And # t!in+ t!at t!ose are t!e reall& interesting ne( s$enarios (!ere &ou (e>re tal+ing about remittan$es to eo le (!o !ave no real good (a& to do t!is t!ings rig!t no( so...

RB: Bea! # mean... to fo$us on &our $!arit& t!ing. # remember (it! t!e Haiti disaster" t!ere (as a 404 - H%onate to Red Cross via t!e 404.G # t!in+ t!at>s one of t!e first times (!en t!at (ent reall& big and reall& (!at t!at (as about (as" and # $an>t imagine !o( mu$! infrastru$ture and fees (ent into roviding t!at servi$e" but t!e& redu$ed t!e fri$tion to donate for t!e Haiti disaster. And eo le donated b& te7t messaging in for$e" all t!e& !ad to do is t& e in (!atever (as" Ffor Haiti"G or (!atever and send it to a arti$ular 404 s!ort $ode and &ou donate li+e L dollars or somet!ing and t!at (as amaDing. #t alread& s!o(s t!at b& redu$ing fri$tion to a&ments &ou $an get mone& to la$es t!at are (ort!& and deemed ne$essaril& good. And # t!in+ t!at li+e &ou>re sa&ing (it! t!e Bit$oin redu$es t!at barrier entr& b& 8uite a bit. Co( it also introdu$es t!e need to ma+e t!ese servi$es be able to demonstrate t!at t!e& are legitimate in real $!arities" of $ourse" t!at>s t!e ne( $!allenge" of $ourse. ABL: 'ell # don>t t!in+ t!at t!at>s a ne( $!allenge. A$tuall& # t!in+ t!at" &ou +no(" s ea+ing about Haiti situation in arti$ular" &ou $an see t!at an enormous amount of mone& (ent t!ere" but a lot of t!e roblems t!at t!e& !ad" &ou +no(" t!at s ot t!at generated t!e need" !aven>t reall& been fi7ed (it! it. 4o # t!in+ t!at>s anot!er interesting t!ing" is t!at" (it! t!e Red Cross &ou !ave t!is reall& $entraliDed form of" &ou +no(" of !el . But a lot of it doesn>t a$tuall& ma+e it to t!e rig!t la$es and t!e eo le (!o ma+e t!e de$isions ultimatel& a lot of times" aren>t t!e ones on t!e ground (!o are doing it. *!e&" &ou +no(" t!e&>re li+e a giant sieves $olle$ting - &ou +no(" nets" $olle$ting all t!e funds and t!en t!e& give t!em out to t!e eo le (!o t!e& deem ne$essar& but a lot of times t!e&>re (rong. Bou +no(" it>s li+e &ou (ind u (it! t!ings li+e giant !otels being built (it! funds instead of" &ou +no(" li+e !ouses t!at !ave" &ou +no(" li+e stru$tural su ort in t!em... RB: # see. ABL: 4o" &ou +no(" t!at>s anot!er t!ing t!at>s reall& e7$iting to me" is t!at (it! bit$oin" it>s ver& eas& to instead of i$+ing one generi$ fund to send it to" to instead !ave a dire$tor& of all t!ese funds and t!en !ave t!e s e$ifi$ ro<e$ts t!at t!e&>re (or+ing on" and e7a$tl& (!at it is going to. 4o instead of !aving t!at organiDation" &ou essentiall& outsour$e... RB: Rig!t. ABL: ...to t!e eo le (!o>re funding it" t!e de$ision-ma+ing ro$ess about (!at a$tuall& is (ort!& of t!eir funds and # t!in+ t!at" &ou +no(" ta+ing t!e $on$e t t!at &es" $!aritable giving is good" but (e s!ould do it in a (a& t!at is effi$ient and t!at a$tuall& !el s t!is situation. *!at>s anot!er t!ing t!at # t!in+ Bit$oin and t!e granularit& of (!at it lets &ou" &ou +no(" (ould it let &ou donate be$ause if &ou (anna to" &ou +no(" donate L dollars t!en all L dollars $ould go to t!e Red Cross"

but it $ould also go" &ou +no(" L2 $ents to t!is ro<e$t" a dollar to t!is ro<e$t" L2 $ents to t!at ro<e$t" 1 dollars to t!at ro<e$t based on (!at &ou ersonall& value. And it>s" &ou +no(" not reall& an& more $om li$ated. RB: #>m gonna ta+e a ris+ !ere and tr& to do an analog&. 4o rig!t no(" for e7am le" if &ou (anna get a film green-lit b& a ma<or studio" it $an be rett& $!allenging to do so. -And so" even if &ou>ve got a great i$ture and ma&be t!e&" t!e film studio t!en turns around and a$tuall& uts FGigl&G or" &ou +no(" (!atever t!at film (as toget!er instead of &our a(esome i$ture. Co( # $an>t s ea+ e7a$tl& to !o( Red Cross s ends its mone&" but if &ou (ould sa& t!e Red Cross is more li+e a ma<or studio and t!at t!e& are ma+ing t!ese big de$isions t!at $an sometimes not ne$essaril& end u (it! as ositive results" it)s almost li+e (!at &ou>re tal+ing about - sounds to me almost li+e a $ro(d funding of $!aritable giving" (!ere &ou>re ta+ing smaller la&ers (!o are legitimatel& demonstrating t!emselves online and ma+ing eas& (a& for t!at mone& to go out to t!em. -And t!at>s e7$iting. ABL: # t!in+ t!at>s a great analog&. Bea!" &ea!" absolutel&" &ou +no(" and again (it! t!e Gigl& e7am le # t!in+ t!at &ou>re rig!t on be$ause again t!ere>s t!is situation (!ere t!e eo le (!o de$ide about (!at gets finan$ed aren>t t!e audien$e. *!e&>re not t!e eo le (!o at t!e end of t!e da& are gonna (at$! and be li+e F0anE *!at (as t!e film # (anted to (at$!"G be$ause t!e& don>t $are. RB: Rig!t. ABL: 4o" &ou +no( # mean" it>s <ust t!eir <ob. But" &ou +no(" &ea!" tal+ing about $ro(d funding in some of t!e movies" t!at are being getting funded t!roug! t!at met!od t!en &ou>re not" # mean" &ou>re $om letel& $ut out t!at level. Bou>re <ust going straig!t from t!e $reator to t!e audien$e" and so t!e audien$e $an tell &ou" &ou +no(" Ft!at>s a terrible idea" don>t do t!at"G &ou +no(. 4o" so &ea!" # t!in+ t!at t!at>s good" &ou +no(. And again" # !ave no roblem (it! Red Cross" # !ave a roblem (it! $entraliDation" # t!in+. # don>t t!in+ t!at t!is is ver& effi$ient and a$tuall& erforming t!e tas+ t!at often times t!e& set t!emselves to erform. RB: Bea!. ABL: Bea!. 'ell Rob" # !ave reall& en<o&ed t!is $onversation. RB: 0e too. # didn>t get m& $ool gong sound in. (laug!s all around) ABL: 'ell" (e !ad t!at bellA

RB: 'e !ad t!at bell from outside so !o efull&" ma&be" #>d love to $ome ba$+ sometime in t!e future and la& a gong sound or some ot!er t!ings. 4o" but # reall& a re$iate getting on &our od$ast !ere. # !ave been a listener and it)s reall& $ool to get to meet &ou in- erson. ABL: *!at>s ver& ni$e t!ing to sa&. # reall& en<o&ed t!is too Rob. *!an+ &ou ver& mu$!. RB: Bou>re (el$ome. ABL: After t!is s!ort musi$al brea+" #>m <oined b& Alan Reiner of t!e o en-sour$e Armor& 'allet ro<e$t. #f &ou>d li+e to do(nload t!e soft(are or learn more" lease visit bit$oinarmor&.$om. (musi$ la&ing) ABL: 4o" (e>re !ere (it! Alan Reiner from t!e Armor& ro<e$t" (!i$! is m& favorite (allet b& far" and t!e one t!at (e use on t!e s!o( for rett& mu$! ever&t!ing. #n t!is (orld of (eb (allets (!ere t!ere seems to be almost no develo ment on t!e side of t!e des+to $lients" &ou>re doing somet!ing rett& uni8ue. '!& is t!at (!ere &ou are t!ro(ing &our timeA '!& are des+to (allets interesting to &ou (!en ever&bod& else seems fo$used on t!e $loudA AR: #t>s mainl& m& ba$+ground. # mean" it>s a $ombination of ba$+ground and <ust (!at (as needed. # mean" &ou !ave t!is e$os&stem of eo le flo$+ing to (eb (allets be$ause it>s eas&" but &ou>ve got a lot of eo le forgetting t!at t!ere>s a se$urit& as e$t" or (!et!er t!e& forgot or <ust don>t feel it ne$essar&. Convenien$e is al(a&s better t!an se$urit& to a lot of eo le. But t!e roblem is" t!at t!ere>s so man& eo le t!e& reall& do need t!at se$urit& and t!e solutions <ust (eren>t t!ere. Ever&t!ing t!at Armor& does is somet!ing t!at !ad been in t!eor& for t!e first $ou le of &ears. ?eo le (ould al(a&s tal+ about &ou $ould do t!is" &ou $ould do t!at but no one (as doing it. -And (!en # got into Bit$oin" # didn>t get into it originall& for doing t!is" but (!en # first got into it" # started as a miner and t!en realiDed t!at m& ba$+ground is <ust absolutel& erfe$t. #>m a mat!emati$ian" #>m a $r& togra !er" a statisti$ian" and # !ave s ent t!e last seven &ears develo ing soft(are for a !&si$s lab and it <ust" +ind of" all $ame toget!er and # said F!e&" # $an do all t!ese t!ings. '!& don>t # <ust do itAG ABL: And t!en &ou started do(n t!at at!A AR: # started do(n t!at at!I

ABL: 4o (!en (as t!atA

AR: # even remember telling m& best friend (!o (as t!e one (!o got me into Bit$oin" (e (ere doing mining and (e didn>t reall& understand Bit$oin t!at mu$! and # started getting into it and # remember telling !im &ou +no( t!is is gonna be... #>m <ust gonna get s(allo(ed into t!is !ole if # go do(n t!is at!" and # (as rig!t. A &ear and a !alf later" and !ere # am. ABL: 4o !o(>s t!at (or+ing for &ouA

AR: #t>s rett& a(esome. # mean" no( # (or+ on it full time. 4o # don>t !ave t!e distra$tions" #>ve been (or+ing full-time on it for t!e last mont! and # don>t !ave t!e distra$tion t!at # !ad before. # $an no( fo$us on" &ou +no(" reall& a&ing attention to t!e details and getting some t!ings t!at seems lo(er riorit&" but &ou +no(" # $an sto ro$rastinating on t!ose t!ings and a$tuall& do it. ABL: 4o (!en $an # sto using a Bit$oin-NtA (laug!s all around) ABL: Be$ause" &ou +no(" for an&one (!o !asn>t used t!e Armor& $lient" it re8uires t!at &ou essentiall& run Bit$oin-Nt to do(nload and maintain t!e blo$+ $!ain and t!en it (or+s off of t!at. AR: Rig!t. 4o" #>ll give a little bit of ba$+ground on t!at. # mean" art of t!e reason it>s t!ere" t!e (a& it>s set u li+e t!at" is so t!at... it>s be$ause Bit$oin... t!at rogram is basi$all& li+e t!e gold standard of net(or+ se$urit& and blo$+$!ain se$urit&. Basi$all&" as an interfa$e to t!e net(or+ &ou $an>t get an& better t!an t!at. But it <ust la$+s so severel& on (!at &ou $an do (it! it. 4o t!at>s (!at armor& builds on to of. 4o romoting a !ig! se$urit& $lient # t!in+ an a - !ig!-se$urit& a li$ation - $ould be toug! to do (it!out !aving t!at robust engine under t!e !ood. Co( one of t!e t!ings #>ve done re$entl& is tr& to !ide it" so t!at it>s still t!ere but it>s a lot less (or+ for t!e user t!at it no( <ust +inda runs in t!e ba$+ground. And # don>t +no( if &ou>ve used t!e most re$ent one" but no( it runs in t!e ba$+ground and does it for &ou. Bou still got to (ait for t!e do(nload" but at t!e moment" t!at>s t!e ri$e of se$urit&. #n t!e future (!at (e (anna do is to set u somet!ing t!at li+e Ele$trum does" (!ere &ou !ave servers t!at are feeding t!at information. 4o basi$all& rat!er t!an ma+ing &ou run Bit$oin-Nt" # (ill run it for eo le. Co( it>s not t!e most se$ure solution.

ABL: Rig!t. AR: But (!at it does is it bridges t!e ga bet(een t!e interested and t!e eo le (!o (ant t!e real se$urit&. eo le (!o are marginall&

ABL: 4o (!at>s t!e se$urit& im li$ation of doing t!at" # mean" (!at>s t!e do(n sideA AR: 6m... ABL: '!& is it less se$ureA AR: *!e se$urit& is be$ause &ou>re trusting ot!er nodes on t!e net(or+ to give &ou $orre$t information. B& trusting ot!er servers t!e& $an give &ou bad information" if &ou loo+ at t!e !istor& of Bit$oin" alt!oug! most of t!em !aven>t reall& been em lo&ed" t!ere>s a (!ole $lass of isolation atta$+s (!i$! basi$all& means t!at someone $ontrols all of &our eers" t!en t!e& $an do some nast& t!ings. ABL: Rig!t. AR: #f &ou>re $onne$ted to one server and &ou are trusting t!em to give" &ou +no(" to be &our gate(a& to t!e net(or+" t!e& <ust isolated &ou" &ou +no(" of $ourse" (e !o e (e !ave a re utation t!at eo le (ould be (illing to do t!at and our goal (ill be to sa& !ere are t!e ris+s and t!e re(ards of t!e various nodes. 4o (!en &ou first install Armor&" it (ill basi$all& start u instantl&" &ou $an use it instantl&" it>ll $onne$t to t!e one of t!e servers but t!ere (ill be a little &ello( or red lig!t to sa& !e&" &our riva$& is $om romised" &our se$urit& is $om romised" &ou $an... &ou $an u grade. ABL: Rig!t. AR: Bou +no(... use t!e !ard$ore version if &ou reall& (ant it. *!e ot!er do(n side is t!e riva$& (!i$! is" (!en &ou use Bit$oin-Nt" &ou are essentiall& invisible to t!e net(or+. Bou $an do almost ever&t!ing t!at &ou (anna do (it!out an&one else in t!e net(or+ +no(ing about it. ABL: Rig!t.

AR: '!ereas if &ou are using a $entraliDed servi$e" li+e Ele$trum does" t!at server and &our $ommuni$ation to t!at server is broad$asting to t!e (orld !o( mu$! mone& is in &our (allet and !o( mu$! ever& transa$tion t!at &ou ever e7e$uted. 4o t!ere>s some serious riva$& im li$ations to t!at. And t!at>s (!ere t!e $onvenien$e" &ou +no(" eo le sa$rifi$e se$urit& for $onvenien$e (!ereas Armor&" rig!t no(" !as sa$rifi$ed $onvenien$e for se$urit&. #>d li+e to !ave bot! o tions and t!at>s (!at #>m (or+ing on. ABL: 4o" # mean" it seems li+e it>s a teeter-totter roblem (!ere" &ou +no(" (!en &ou us! do(n on one side &ou go u on t!e ot!er side. 4o (!at)s t!e balan$e ointA # mean" is federated servers balan$eA AR: '!at>s t!atA ABL: Bou>re sa&ing t!at" &ou +no(" one of t!e $on$e ts !as been" +i$+ing around for # guess t(o &ears no( in t!e Bit$oin $ommunit& is t!e idea of federated servers and" !aving" sort of se arate-but-e8ual so t!at" &es" &ou $an !ave (!at &ou>re tal+ing (!ere &ou>ve got" &ou +no(" in t!e $loud" !ere is &our data" &ou don>t need to do(nload it &ourself. But at t!e same time if t!ere are a (!ole bun$! of t!ose out t!ere t!at $an be $!osen" &ou +no(" from and t!e& all are essentiall& $om eting (it! ea$! ot!er" t!en &ou +ind of ameliorate some of t!at ris+" rig!tA AR: *o some e7tent. (laug!s all around) ABL: Bou seem s+e ti$al about t!at. AR: # mean" &ou +no( one of t!e t!ings Armor& is $atering to rig!t no(" at least in t!is $urrent in$arnation" is t!at" t!is is somet!ing t!at reall& t!at t!e eo le (it! a lot of mone&" (it! a lot of bit$oins" and $om anies (!o reall& (anna be se$ure" t!e&>re not gonna settle for somet!ing t!at... t!e& (anna !ave no doubt in t!eir mind t!at t!e& are using somet!ing t!at>s giving t!em ever&t!ing. And t!at>s (!at t!e Armor& does rig!t no(. Bou !ave to do t!e (or+ to get it set u " but &ou>ve got t!e ma7imum riva$&" &ou>ve got t!e ma7imum se$urit& in ever& dimension t!at &ou $an get rig!t no(. ABL: Rig!t. AR: And" &ou +no( - but (e (anna" (e (anna a eal to all users and all t!ose ot!er solutions t!at (e tal+ about" t!e& all !ave t!eir dra(ba$+s. And (e $an

debate about (!et!er !o( signifi$ant t!e& are" (!atever" but for serious" (e (anna !ave a mode t!at is t!e -22O solution for t!em.

eo le (!o are

ABL: Rig!t. 'ell" &ou +no(" one of t!e t!ings t!at &our... t!at Armor& $lient im lemented fairl& earl& on (as t!e idea of a er ba$+u s" and #>ve got to sa& t!at ersonall& t!at saved me about eig!t& bit$oins (!en # moved last time... (laug!s all around) ABL: ...and it (as a roug! $ou le of (ee+s (!ile #... $ause # moved out to a ver& slo( $onne$tion and it too+ a long time for t!e blo$+ $!ain to do(nload and it (as ver& ainful" +ind of" realiDation. 4o" # mean" (!at ot!er features are &ou lanning on adding to t!e $lient and (!at t!ings do &ou t!in+ need to be ioneered inA AR: 4o a$tuall& <ust from t!e $onferen$e toda&" for t!is (ee+end" # <ust ioneered a ne( feature (!i$! builds on t!at $on$e t &ou <ust dis$ussed no(. 5ust for ba$+ground" (it! t!e ot!er a li$ations" (it! Bit$oin-Nt" &ou !ave to ba$+u &our (allet ever& so often at t!e ris+ of losing $oins. 'it! Armor&" &ou $an rint off a single s!eet of a er and it rote$ts all of &our $oins. *!at is &our savior is t!at if &ou forget &ou ass !rase" or &our !ard drive dies" or &our $om uter is stolen" &ou $an al(a&s go get t!at ie$e of a er and restore &our (allet. Ho(ever" t!at>s not even enoug! for some eo le be$ause some eo le" es e$iall& t!e aranoid ones" and es e$iall& $om anies. *!e& see t!at single ie$e of a er as a single oint of failure. And obviousl& t!at>s not ideal be$ause (!en &ou>ve got a s&stem t!at is totall& anon&mous or $an be totall& anon&mous t!ere is no Fo!" (!oo sEG *!at mone& is gone. 4o one of t!e features t!at # <ust im lemented (as - it uses somet!ing $alled 4!amir>s 4e$ret 4!aring. #t allo(s &ou to ta+e a ie$e - a se$ret" (!i$! in t!is $ase is &our (allet and s lit it bet(een multi le ie$es of a er. And in t!is $ase it $an be a a er" it $an be 64B +e&s" &ou $an mi7 t!em" it>s a$tuall& ver& fle7ible. And &ou $an i$+ (!atever se$urit& versus redundan$& tradeoff &ou (ant. Rig!t no(" &ou $an rint one ie$e of a er but if t!at ie$e of a er goes do(n in a fire" &our ba$+u is gone. Bou $an rint 12 ie$es of a er but no( &ou>ve distributed t!is ie$e of a er t!at" if an& one of t!em is found" it>s ta+en. '!at t!is does is it lets &ou" sa&" rint L ie$es of a er and an& t!ree of t!em is suffi$ient for re$overing &our (allet. # (ouldn>t go so $raD& some eo le $an go reall& far (it! it" and do seven of -1 ba$+u and" &ou +no(" do $raD& stuff. ABL: #t>s modifiable based on &our needs. AR: Rig!t. And so (!at &ou do is &ou>ve redu$ed it from a single oint of failure to multi le oints of failure (!i$!" if &ou a$tuall& +ee t!em at se arated la$es" +ee one at &our !ouse" +ee one in t!e safe de osit bo7" give one to &our famil& - it $om letel& removes atta$+s of o ortunit&" (!ere someone brea+s into &our !ouse and finds &our (allet" finds t!is ie$e of a er or someone - a ban+ em lo&ee -

snoo ing in safe de osit bo7es. *!ose atta$+s are gone be$ause !aving one s!eet of a er doesn>t !el &ou at all. ABL: Rig!t. AR: 4o &ou gotta !ave multi le ie$es. And at t!e same time &ou $an $reate as man& of t!ose as &ou (ant and &ou +no( t!at an& subset of t!em (ill (or+ so &ou $an get t!e redundan$&. 4o &ou get t!is" t!is fantasti$ mi7ture of se$urit& and redundan$&" and &ou $an tailor it !o( &ou (ant. ABL: 4o do &ou t!in+" t!at>s +ind of t!e future of (!at (e>re gonna see !ere. Bou +no( (!en it $omes to t!e Bit$oin and se$urit& is t!at it <ust !as to be modular" it <ust !as to be modifiable b& users to meet t!eir level of ris+s t!at t!e& are (illing to essentiall& !assle t!roug! in order to... AR: # t!in+ t!at>s t!e art of e7 eriment !ere" is t!at" &ou +no(" Bit$oin !as a usabilit& roblem rig!t no(. And rig!t no(" #>m rodu$ing t!e best features # $an imagine t!at eo le !ave tal+ed about" t!at t!e& (ant" t!e eo le (!o are reall& te$!ni$al" (!o understand" &ou +no( (!o reall& get it t!e& (ant it but don>t !ave it. #>ve rodu$ed t!at (it! t!is # $all it fragmented ba$+u " (!ere &ou $an brea+ &our (allet into fragments and distribute it. 4imilarl&" &ou $an a$tuall& use t!e net(or+ for it>s $alled multi-signature transa$tions (!ere &ou a$tuall& re8uire multi le devi$es. ABL: Have &ou im lemented t!atA AR: #>ve not im lemented t!at. ABL: O+a&. AR: *!at>s (!ere #>m going. ABL: O+a&. AR: # sa& t!is is an e7 eriment be$ause m& goal is to get all t!at stuff out t!ere and let eo le figure out (!at t!e& are (illing to tolerate. # $an set &ou u (it! t!e most se$ure (a& to rote$t &our bit$oins (it! (!atever arameters t!at &ou (ant but not ever&one (ants to do t!at. '!ere are eo le gonna end u " &ou +no(A And some fear t!at eo le end u all on blo$+$!ain.info be$ause t!e& don>t (anna deal (it! se$urit& at all. 'e (anna ma+e sure t!at t!e solutions are t!ere and (e mig!t be

leasantl& sur rised. A$tuall& # +no( (e (ill be$ause m& goal in Armor& is to ma+e it eas& enoug! t!at eo le (ill use it. 0a&be not ever&one uses it. But if t!e o tion is t!ere" eo le use it and it im roves t!e e$os&stem. *!e fa$t t!at eo le !ave t!e o tion to se$ure t!eir o(n is one of t!e t!ings t!at !el s Bit$oin. ABL: Bou +no(" Blo$+$!ain is an interesting ro<e$t. #>m $raD&-s+e ti$al of online (allets at t!is oint. #t seems li+e even (it! t(o-fa$tor aut!enti$ation" it sometimes doesn>t reall& !el es e$iall& (!en eo le are using t!e Google aut!enti$ation. %o &ou... # mean to a $ertain e7tent" # feel li+e giving eo le o tions to ma+e t!em feel li+e t!e& are more se$ure (!en in t!e realit& t!ere not is a$tuall& a disservi$e be$ause t!e& feel li+e Fo!" (ell t!is is <ust as good as an&t!ing else.G # mean" li+e" do &ou t!in+ t!ere is a model for an online (allet t!at isn>t in!erentl& inse$ureA AR: 'ell # do $om letel& agree (it! t!e notion 9t!at: &ou don>t (ant to give a fault sense of se$urit&. # !aven>t seen it so mu$! in t!e Bit$oin e$os&stem as &ou see it in all arts of te$!nolog&" (!ere eo le im lement $om letel& artifi$ial barriers. *!e& ma+e it loo+ li+e t!ere is se$urit&... ABL: Bea!. AR: ...(!en it>s not t!ere. ABL: 4e$urit& t!eater" so to s ea+. AR: # t!in+ t!at t!e term t(o-fa$tor aut!enti$ation if it>s not giving &ou - or multifa$tor" meaning &ou need a multi le devi$es in order to aut!enti$ate" in order to a$$ess t!e (eb servi$e in order to send &our bit$oins - t!at term im lies se$urit&" t!e 8uestion is (as it im lemented $orre$tl&A Bou +no( if" t!ere>s still a single oint of failure be$ause someone $an !a$+ bit$oin.info" or blo$+$!ain.info (ebsite (!ere t!e& $an get t!e users> a$$ounts and t!eir Google Aut! ass(ords all in one la$e" (ell &ou still !ave a single oint of failure" not to mention t!e ot!er fa$t t!at t!e blo$+$!ain.info $ould go a(a& and ta+e &our mone&. ABL: Rig!t. AR: 5ust li+e # (as sa&ing (it! t!e ba$+u s (!en t!ere>s multi le ie$es t!at !ave to be re$overed to use it" &ou>re dramati$all& redu$ing t!e ris+ t!ere. ABL: O+a&.

AR: Be$ause most of t!ese $om romises are be$ause someone guesses &our ass(ord" t!e& a$$ess t!e server. Armor& (ill a$tuall& (ant to im lement t!is and... t!is is ver& !ig! in m& riorit& list. Being able to a$tuall& !ave a (allet on &our !one and (allet on &our $om uter" &ou don>t need a $entral servi$e. *!e Bit$oin net(or+ !as all t!ose goodies under t!e !ood" so t!at t!e net(or+ (ill a$tuall& re8uire a signature from ea$! devi$e. #n t!at $ase" t!ere reall& is t(o oints of failure be$ause t!e net(or+ itself (ill not rest until bot! t!ose devi$es are $om romised. *!at redu$es a (!ole $lass of atta$+s" mainl& t!e ones (!ere &ou <ust get mal(are on &our $om uter and game over... ABL: Rig!t. AR: ...and t!e& !ave &our (allet. #t>s not gonna eliminate it. Bou +no(" t!ese are t!e t!ings t!at (e (ant to ioneer" (e (anna to get out t!ere" (e (ant eo le to use it" (e (ant eo le to find it" brea+ it a art" be&ond <ust develo ing it" &ou +no(" for Armor&>s sa+e" (e (ant to ma+e t!e tools available for eo le to use and build off of. Cot a lot of eo le are doing it. #n fa$t" #>m sur rised. 0a&be it>s <ust t!is uni8ue ba$+ground t!at # $ome from t!at # !ave all t!e mat! and t!e rogramming and a lot of free time t!at # $an im lement it" and t!e eo le (!o !ave most of t!at ba$+ground but not as mu$! time to s end $an no(" &ou +no(" igg&ba$+ off t!e (or+ t!at # !ave done. ABL: Rig!t. AR: *!e $ode is all o en sour$e" &ou +no( &ou $an build off itM it <ust seems t!at no one else is rig!t no(. ABL: 4o no(" t!at>s a de$ision to ma+e - to ma+e it o en sour$e (!en &ou !ave somet!ing t!at>s being a$tivel& develo ed" t!at &ou are s ending a lot of time on it. #t>s feature ri$! and" basi$all&" t!at &ou>ve been (or+ing on it alone. 4o # mean" !o( is t!at going for &ouA (laug!s all around) AR: 'ell" (!en it (as a !obb& it (as going fine" &ou +no(" &ou get some donations !ere and t!ere. *!e donations a$tuall& !ad been $onstant in terms of bit$oins but no( t!at... ABL: # (as going to as+ about t!at" &ea!... AR: ...and no( t!at bit$oin !as gone u signifi$ant. -But not enoug! to live on. tenfold in value" it>s a$tuall& some(!at

ABL: Rig!t. AR: Co( t!at #>m (or+ing on a full-time" # !ave someone (!o>s !el ing me (or+ on it full-time for a (!ile and reall& iron it out. Get t!ose multi le user modes" so t!ere>s somet!ing for ever&one in t!e a li$ation" t!en (e $an fo$us" for instan$e #>ve !ad a lot of in8uires about se$urit& $onsulting. Rig!t no(" Armor& is t!e rogram t!at eo le romote. ABL: Rig!t. AR: Bou +no( if &ou (anna +ee &our $oins se$ured t!is is (!at &ou do. *!ere>s a little bit of messing (it! to get it (or+ing for t!e first time but on$e it>s u " t!is is &our solution. And so Armor& !as t!at re utation" and (e (anna leverage t!at and (e $an do t!at t!roug! se$urit& $onsulting and (e>ve gotten a lot of stuff about t!at. A $ou le of $om anies !ave $onta$ted me loo+ing for basi$all& features to be develo ed in Armor& t!at t!e&>d li+e to see in Armor&" &ou +no(" for t!eir a li$ation" but t!e& don>t !ave t!e eo le (!o are $a able of im lementing t!at at all. ABL: 4o !as t!at been" !as t!at been a revenue stream for &ouA AR: Cot &et... ABL: But t!at>s t!e !o e" is t!at" &ea!" &ou are doing t!is art for free but... AR: #>ve been a urist u to t!is oint and #>ve +inda resisted t!ese... ABL: *!e siren $all of mone&... (laug!s all around) AR: 'ell" to be fair t!ere - !asn>t been a ton of mone& loo+ing me in t!e fa$e but" &ou +no(" for no( #>m loo+ing" &ou +no(" one of... don>t forget one of m& benefits is t!at if # $an im rove t!e Bit$oin e$os&stem" # (as a fairl& earl& ada ter... ABL: Rig!t.

AR: 4o #>m not ri$! but a siDable" &ou +no(" # !ave some bit$oins saved u t!at #" t!at # got (!en t!e& (ere t(o bu$+s a ie$e. *!at>s an investment no( t!at... # mean" # use it" # s end it" but obviousl& it $an go u in value" but # get benefit <ust from im roving t!e s&stem even if no one>s a&ing me. ABL: Rig!t. AR: 4o rig!t no( it>s +inda been m& driving for$e and be$ause # li+e it. # mean it>s eas& to sa& t!at (!en &ou !ave a <ob and getting mone& from else(!ere but t!ree to si7 mont!s" (e>ll be loo+ing" $onta$ting t!ese gu&s again" and seeing (!at +ind of revenue streams (e $an set u ... 9Advertisement:

ABL: Bou>re listening to Let>s *al+ Bit$oin" t!e remier audio-$ast roviding ne(s and insig!ts t!at $over t!e ra idl& evolving (orld of digital mone&. Our t(i$e (ee+l& s!o( in$lude anal&sis" late-brea+ing ne(s" u dates on +e& te$!ni$al" business and regulator& issues. And in-de t! intervie(s (it! t!e +e& eo le driving t!e ne( digital e$onom&. Let>s *al+ Bit$oin offers s onsors an attra$tive (a& to rea$! a targeted and savv& audien$e. ,or more information" email s onsors@letstal+bit$oin.$om 9KAdvertisement:

ABL: 4o &ou tal+ed about se$ret s!aring (!i$! is" &ou +no(" again li+e &ou said" # t!in+ t!at)s a $on$e t &ou>re ioneering" # mean t!at>s li+e" t!is is t!e first im lementation in t!e Bit$oin roto$olA # mean" not in t!e roto$ol but t!e $lient" # mean" be$ause &ea! it>s t!ere" &ea! &ou $ould use it" but nobod& !as used it. 4o (!at else is $oming in t!e i eline t!at)s in t!at same veinA

AR: # mean t!e big one is t!e multi-signature transa$tions...--

ABL: 0ulti-signature... so (!en &ou sa& multi-signature transa$tions" fun$tionall& (!at &ou)re sa&ing is (!en (e>re tal+ing about" li+e !o( a $or oration !andles t!eir boo+s" generall& t!ere)s not one gu& (!o is li+e FBu E # got t!e $!e$+boo+" !ere (e go.G Bou +no(" &ea! so...

AR: And t!at)s somet!ing t!at)s ver& im ortant to big la&ers as (ell as t!e little la&ers" be$ause t!e te$!nolog& s$ales erfe$tl&. *!e idea is t!at" 4atos!i" (!en !e $ame u (it! bit$oin" !e $ould !ave <ust made it a sim le a&ment s&stem" t!at &ou transfer mone& from oint A to oint B" and &ou <ust digitall& sign it" &ou +no(" to

aut!oriDe t!at transa$tion. But !e ut in t!is reall& ri$! s&stem under t!e !ood (!ere &ou $an do all sorts of $raD& t!ings" some of (!i$! $ould be &ou re8uire t(o of t!ree signatures. #t)s ver& mu$! li+e t!e 4!amir>s 4e$ret 4!aring e7$e t t!at it)s a$tuall& in t!e roto$ol" art of t!e net(or+ - t!e net(or+ is re8uesting t!at. *!e ba$+u s&stem # tal+ed about (as sim l& a feature #>ve im lemented t!at # didn)t re8uire an& real intera$tion (it! t!e net(or+. *!e net(or+ a$tuall& !as t!is $a abilit&" so &ou $an re8uire t!ose signatures. *!is (or+s if... so &ou sim l& <ust" &ou +no( - one of t!e t!ings # (anna ma+e eas& (it! Armor& is to basi$all& <ust ut a (allet in &our !one" ut a (allet in &our $om uter and $li$+ a button" and t!e&)ll be lin+ed. And it (ill re8uire signatures from bot! to s end &our mone&. %oesn)t matter (!et!er &ou got" &ou +no(" 1 bit$oins or -2"222 in &our a$$ount and all t!e mone& &ou re$eive (ill re8uire t!ose 1 signatures to s end it. 4imilarl&" sa& &ou are a big $om an& !olding lots of mone&" t!ere s!ouldn)t be a single oint of failure" in$luding rogue em lo&ees stuff li+e t!at" (!ere &ou $ould a$tuall& !ave sa& t!ree different sites t!at individuall& $reate (allets" t!ose (allets $an be done in t!eir o(n (a& offline. Co one at t!e different sites even +no( (!o t!e ot!er sites are or (!ere t!e& are. Bet" t!e& are mutuall& $reating a (allet t!at re8uires a signature from all t!ree of t!em. 5ust li+e (it! 4!amir>s 4e$ret 4!aring" &ou>ve dramati$all& redu$ed t!e atta$+ surfa$e of t!at s&stem" be$ause no( &ou !ave multi le sites to enetrate in if &ou>re gonna tr& to brea+ t!at s&stem. And it also rote$ts &ou against" sa&" rogue em lo&ees (!o" &ou +no(... one of t!e issues (it! Bit$oin is t!at it)s almost too good at (!at it does. And t!at....

ABL: Bou +no( (!at if someone stole it. 4orr&E

AR: #t (asn)t me.

ABL: Bea! (laug!s)

AR: Bou +no(" li+e" it)s not reall& rovable (!et!er... 4o eo le (!o are gonna be doing serious t!ings (it! Bit$oin are going to need t!is. And" again" somet!ing t!at>s been tal+ed about for &ears. 4ome eo le !ave im lemented sim le s$ri ts to +ind of !a$+ it toget!er to do it as li+e little to&... !obb&" &ou +no(" li+e garage e7 eriment-t& e and stuff. But no one !as a$tuall& develo ed a solution. # mean" t!e real beaut& of it is &ou $an !ave eo le (!o don)t even +no( ea$! ot!er. *!ere)s various a li$ations of Dero trust relations!i s (!ere &ou mig!t (anna do t!is. But &ou $an !ave multi le eo le (!o>ve never !ave to !ave ever met or tou$!ed t!e same $om uter. Ea$! individuall& $reating (allets and $reating a s!ared (allet t!at re8uires all t!eir signatures to s end t!eir mone&.

ABL: # t!in+ # misunderstood (!at &ou (ere sa&ing before (!en # t!oug!t &ou meant (as t!at &ou (ere $reating almost a... &ou (ere ta ing into a roto$ol t!at

(ould allo( eo le (it! multi le (allets" &ou +no(... t!at)s t!e (rong (ord... t!at (ould allo( $om anies building different (allets" but it sounds li+e (!at &ou)re sa&ing to me is a$tuall& t!at eo le $an !ave multi le installations of Armor&" &ou +no(" and li+e # $an !ave one" &ou $an !ave one" m& (ife Cr&stal $an !ave one and" &ou +no(" in t!is s$enario" it (ould re8uire signatures from t(o of us" &ou +no(" in order to ma+e t!at !a en. Bea!. O+a& so (e>re tal+ing about individual (allet installation so individuals eo le>s (allets. 4o in t!at.. is t!at a s!ared (alletA

AR: 4o t!e idea (ould be ea$! erson individuall& installs Armor& and t!en $reates a (allet. And t!is isn)t art of Armor& &et but t!is is one of t!ose Hol& Grail features t!at # (anna !ave im lemented. ?eo le !ave im lement it but it)s reall& !a$+&" it)s under t!e" &ou +no( it>s s$ri ting" it>s not useable" it>s not fle7ible. Bou +no( Armor& is gonna ma+e t!is a real t!ing t!at (ill a$tuall& !ave an interfa$e t!at ma+es it eas& to do t!is t!ing. Bou $ould !ave multi le eo le - ea$! individuall& $reate a (allet - and t!e& $an send ea$! ot!er a ie$e of information t!at doesn>t reveal an& se$ret information" and &ou end u $reating a s!ared (allet" and t!en t!e net(or+ (ould a$tuall& enfor$e t!e rules. *!e net(or+ (ould re8uire t(o of t!ree signatures in order for t!ose funds to be moved.

ABL: And t!is is t!e s&stem t!at>s alread& fun$tionall& built into t!e isn)t reall& being used b&...

roto$ol it <ust

AR: E7a$tl&. And so t!is !as a lot of a li$ations" not <ust (!at (e <ust said. Bou +no(" one as # said &ou $an !ave it on a !one and a $om uter <ust for &ourself. 4o t!at t!ose are t!e t(o eo le or t!e t(o devi$es t!at &ou need signatures from. Bou $an !ave t!e situation (!ere &ou !ave a $om an& t!at s lits t!eir rimar& fund into 3 (allets" re8uires 3 signatures and t!e eo le (!o !ave t!at (allets don)t even +no( ea$! ot!er" t!e&>ve never met" t!e&>re at different geogra !i$al lo$ations" so t!at no one erson $ould $om romise t!at s&stem. Bou $an also do $raD& stuff li+e it (ouldn)t e7a$tl& be a (allet" but &ou (ould !ave eo le (!o !ave (allets (!ere t!e& $reate one-time transa$tions" (!ere t!e& mutuall& send mone& to t!is" it)s !ard to des$ribe e7a$tl& (!at" but t!e& bot! send mone& to t!is m&sti$al la$e $alled t!e Bit$oin net(or+" and t!e net(or+ !olds on to it until it re$eives bot! signatures. #t>s t!e e7a$t same $on$e t.

ABL: 4o es$ro(A

AR: But it>s es$ro(. Bou>re using t!e Bit$oin net(or+ as es$ro(. 4o &ou $ould a$tuall& !ave t(o eo le (!o are on Craigslist. *!e bu&er $an ut u mone& into t!is (allet t!at re8uires a signature from bot! and t!e mone& is not released until t!e bu&er and t!e seller bot! agree to release it.

ABL: 4o t!at)s alread& in t!e roto$olA

AR: *!at)s all ossible (it! t!e roto$ol" <ust no one)s doing it.

ABL: 4ee t!at)s a reall& interesting t!ing be$ause last nig!t at t!e meet u t!at (as a 8uestion t!at (as flat-out as+ed is (!at do (e do... !o( do (e go about $reating a de$entraliDed" &et trusted" (allet servi$e t!at is fun$tionall& t!e blo$+ $!ain. And t!e ans(er from 0i+e Hearn at t!at time (as" &ou +no(" go do it. (lig!t laug!ing)

ABL: But # mean.... but (!at &ou)re sa&ing is it)s alread&... &ou +no( t!e bones of it are alread& t!ere. #t)s <ust about building t!e interfa$e.

AR: Let me ut it t!is (a&. All t!e building blo$+s are t!ere" it)s <ust - t!ere>s not!ing sim le about it under t!e !ood. And one of Armor&>s t!ing t!at #)m tr&ing to do is ta+e t!ese $om li$ated t!ings and bring it to eo le in a sim ler (a&. And # alread& !ave all t!ese $on$e tual dra(ings and interfa$e designs t!at... #)ve got a rett& good idea of !o( it>s gonna (or+. And # <ust gotta do it. But it does ta+e somebod& t!at reall& understands Bit$oin under t!e !ood. 'e s ent a lot of time and understands t!ese building blo$+s be$ause some of t!em are reall& obs$ure and even someone (it! a reall& good mat! ba$+ground ma& not.

ABL: Absolutel&. Bou +no(" Bit$oin is one of t!ose t!ings (!ere it seems li+e &ou need to !ave su$! a $om lete i$ture of all t!ese different dis$rete areas so &ou)re rig!t" # mean &our s+ill set is reall& (ell- ositioned to do t!at. Bou +no(" # mean t!e eo le t!at &ou are tal+ing to bringing in on t!is" # mean" are &ou li+e are &ou leading t!e $!arge" are &ou t!e visionar& on t!is" is it more of a $ollaborative environmentA

AR: At t!e moment it)s <ust me. And #)ve done ever&t!ing so far.

ABL: Rig!t.

AR: And #)m (or+ing on getting someone else (!o is an Android develo er among ot!er t!ings. He>s a$tuall& a soft(are gu& (!o is gonna !el (it! Android a " and also <ust ta+ing t!is mat!emati$ian>s $ode and ma+ing it a real soft(are-oriented best ra$ti$es. 'e (anna get someone else (!o is also a se$urit& e7 ert in on

t!ese t!ings and get t!em develo ing for t!is so t!at (e $an !ave more resour$es. Be$ause" rig!t no(" # am suffering from a la$+ of resour$es. # mean # +no( !o( to do t!ese t!ings" #)m still gonna $ontinue doing it. # <ust (anna get" (e are gonna tr& to get some eo le and see if (e $an generate a little bit of mone& to a& t!em" and get t!em reall& e7 anding t!is a li$ation. Be$ause t!ere)s all t!is stuff t!at (e $an do and # don)t !ave to $ode it m&self in order to ma+e it !a en.

ABL: Rig!t.

AR: # (ill if # !ave to. (lig!t laug!ing)

ABL: # t!in+ t!at)s t!e rig!t attitude to !ave !ere is t!at if nobod& else is gonna do it" fineE #)m <ust gonna do it. 0ig!t ta+e a little bit longer" but it (ill be rig!t.

AR: And t!at)s (!at #)m doing no(.

ABL: # t!in+ t!at is absolutel& $orre$t (a& to a roa$! t!is. 4o it is sounds li+e" from (!at (e>re tal+ing about !ere" t!at (e $an e7 e$t develo ment of Armor& to +ind of s eed u be$ause it)s been a little bit on t!e slo( side as far as... &ou +no(" # mean" to be erfe$tl& !onest (it! &ou # don>t t!in+ #>ve do(nloaded an u graded version in ma&be si7 mont!s. 4!ould # at t!is ointA

AR: Bea!" &ou robabl& s!ould.

ABL: O+a&" # robabl& s!ould. Bou +no( # noti$ed t!at # (as !aving roblems (it! transa$tions getting $onfirmed after t!e for+" and it (as frea+ing me out and # (as li+e FO! m& god" (!at>s going onAG but t!en # s!utdo(n t!e $lient and o ened it again and it (as fine. 4o # <ust need to u grade.

AR: Bou robabl& <ust need an u grade.

ABL: O+. (laug!s) 'ell..

AR: # mean t!is is one of t!e t!ings t!at it>s a ver& ra idl& develo ing field and" &ou +no(" es e$iall& me as a single develo er develo ing a rat!er large a " #)m $onstantl& fi7ing bugs and it>s ainful to !ear t!at eo le aren)t using t!e absolute latest be$ause # $an t!in+ of ever& little bug t!at...

ABL: (laug!s)

AR: ...t!is is version t!e& are usingE # t!in+ FCoE CoEG li+e" # $an)t believe t!e& are using t!at. But it (or+s.. # mean" it)s a solid rogram and (e <ust (anna build on to of t!at and get all t!ese little bran$!es into ot!er areas going.

ABL: 4o one of t!e ot!er 8uestions t!at #)ve reall& been (ondering is - are (e going to see alt$oin integration into Armor&A #s t!at somet!ing t!at is even interesting to &ouA

AR: Are &ou one of t!e ones (!o emailed me about t!isA

ABL: Co" # didn>t. #" ersonall& - # don>t reall& li+e t!e alt$oins" be$ause # feel li+e it>s... a meta !or # find m&self using over and over again is it>s <ust li+e bu&ing tornado insuran$e to be able to live in a flood Done. Bou +no(" # mean" be$ause t!e roblems t!at t!e& solved don)t matter until somet!ing reall& bad !a ens. And t!en t!e& matter and" &ou +no(" ma&be it (or+s" but a lot of t!e t!ings... be$ause # $ontinue to be $on$erned about t!e regulator& side. 4o t!e $r& to... t!e alts $an)t do an&t!ing about t!at. 4o # mean" (!at do &ou t!in+ of t!e altsA

AR: *!at)s a good 8uestion t!at #)ve been tr&ing to avoid for ?R reasons" be$ause #)m reall& not t!at mu$! of a fan of t!em. # mean" # $an see t!eir value" # mean" # $an see (!at eo le are tr&ing to do (it! t!em" t!at t!e&)re tr&ing to solve t!e little intri$a$ies in Bit$oin t!at are bugging eo le. But # gotta give 4atos!i $redit t!at !e did a damn-good <ob" &ou +no(" (it! Bit$oin" t!at !e reall& t!oug!t so man& t!ings t!roug!. *!e s&stem>s not erfe$t" but it is absolutel& stellar at (!at it does. Basi$all&" m& attitude on it !as been 9t!at: # res e$t eo le (!o are doing alt$oin stuff" and # (ill !el t!em ada t Armor& to it" but t!at is far from t!e to of m& riorit& list. 4o # !ad eo le (!o... a lot of eo le $onta$ted me es e$iall& about lite$oin and # basi$all& gave t!em a little roadma and said !ere>s a list of...

ABL: Have funE Go do it.

AR: Here>s a list of fun$tions &ou t!at mig!t !ave to $!ange" lu$+il& it)s not t!at mu$!. # !onestl& don)t t!in+ it (ould be t!at mu$! (or+" but # don)t reall& (anna get into t!e mode of !aving to maintain multi le versions of it.

ABL: 4o &our riorities (it! Armor& are usabilit&" se$urit&" (!at elseA '!at are t!e ot!er +ind of $ore illars !olding t!is t!ing u A

AR: Bea!" # mean se$urit& is t!e to one. #f not!ing else" Armor& is t!e se$urit& solution. *!ere)s not!ing else t!at $omes $lose to im lementing t!e same se$urit& features t!at Armor& !as. 'it! t!e offline (allets being able to se arate &our $oins onto a $om uter t!at)s never tou$!ed t!e #nternet. *!at)s su$! a valuable addition to t!e e$os&stem and t!e abilit& to do t!e ba$+u " stuff li+e t!at. *!at is somet!ing t!at # never (anted to $om romise on. Armor& (ill al(a&s be t!e Cadilla$ (allet for t!at. '!at # (anna do" t!oug!" is t!at some of t!e t!ings #)ve negle$ted earl& on in terms of resour$e usage and some usabilit& issues !ave no( be$ome more signifi$ant" and more and more eo le are !aving issues using it so" es e$iall& no( t!at #)m full time on it" # !ave time to go and $lean t!ese t!ings u . 4o" se$urit& first and t!en usabilit&" and t!e usabilit& as e$t is a lot of t!ings. Being able to run it on an& $om uter (it!out an& s e$ifi$ resour$e re8uirement" !aving an Android a t!at is eas& to use - t!at)s related" t!at !as features" &ou +no(" $an eit!er be used b& itself or (it! t!e online $lient or $ould be used as an offline a .

ABL: Are &ou gonna ma+e an attem t on iO4 devi$es or is t!at <ust...A 9blo(s ras berr&:

AR: # !aven)t !ad mu$! su$$ess on t!at front" so... #)m not against iO4 a <ust t!at # !ave an Android develo er" rig!t no(.

li$ations

ABL: Got$!a.

AR: On$e (e !ave t!at" &ou +no(" (e $an (or+ out all t!e +in+s and ever&t!ing and get t!at stuff set u and doing t!e iO4 a (ill be" &ou +no(" five times easier.

ABL: 4o (e>re at t!e Bit$oin 12-3 $onferen$e during t!is intervie(. # +no( t!at &ou... did &ou get !ere... &ou got !ere rett& 8ui$+. # mean" <ust re$entl&.

AR: Bea!.

ABL: Bea!" so... su er-$urious... (!at are &ou most loo+ing for(ard to (!ile (e>re !ereA

AR: O!" man. #)m a little $onfli$ted be$ause t!ere)s a$tuall& a lot of stuff t!at #)ve $ontributed to" t!at eo le are giving resentations on. # +ind of (anna go see t!at <ust be$ause # !ad somet!ing to do (it! it" but # absolutel& don)t (anna sta& in m& little !ole.

ABL: Rig!t.

AR: # (anna get out and see some of t!e ot!er t!ings" some of t!e !aven)t met &et.

eo le t!at #

ABL: #s t!ere an&bod& in arti$ular (!o &ou>ve <ust been d&ing to meet and &ou)re loo+ing to ma+e t!at o ortunit& !a en !ereA

AR: Bou +no( it>s funn& t!at &ou as+ t!at" be$ause # (as <ust ma+ing <o+es about !o( ever&one !ere !as <ust been i7els on a forum s$reen for...

ABL: *otall&.

AR: ...t(o &ears no(. ?utting fa$es - mat$!ing fa$es to s$reennames. # t!in+ t!at t!ese name tags s!ould !ave t!eir forum name - ever&one)s forum name.

ABL: *!at)s (!at ever&bod&)s been sa&ing. (laug!s all around)

AR: But" &ou +no(" # $ommuni$ate (it! t!ese gu&s regularl& on t!e forums" on instant messenger" on #RC" and sure" fa$e-to-fa$e $onta$t is great but # feel li+e # reall& +no( t!ese gu&s even t!oug! # don)t" &ou +no(...

ABL: 'ell &ea!" &ea!" e7a$tl& it>s li+e <um ing straig!t into t!e" li+e" t!e friend art of t!e relations!i be$ause &ou got all !is $onta$ts. (laug!s all around)

AR: # guess one last 8uestion and t!en #>ll let &ou get. # don>t (anna end on a bad note" but #)m reall& $urious (!at do &ou t!in+ t!e !urdles are t!at are most t!reatening to Bit$oin as (e move for(ard t!roug! t!is ne7t ma&be t(elve-mont! eriodA

AR: *!at)s a reall& good 8uestion. # t!in+ t!at $entraliDation is somet!ing t!at !as to be ver& $arefull& balan$ed" and it)s not somet!ing (e !ave stri$t $ontrol over. Li+e (e>re tal+ing about blo$+$!ain.info. #t>s a $entraliDed servi$e (!i$! is +ind of $ounter to Bit$oin>s !iloso !& but eo le use it be$ause it>s $onvenient. One of t!e fears is t!at all t!e $onvenient" a$$e table solutions (ill be all t!e $entraliDed solutions and t!en (e>re <ust ba$+ to (!ere (e started" and no one is using Bit$oin for its virtues t!at is (as originall& romoted for. Bou +no( t!ere)s a (!ole lot of $entraliDedI $entraliDation t!at)s !a ening <ust bet(een bit$oin mining" t!at no( &ou got t!ese A4#Cs - t!ese !ard$ore $om uting resour$es $oming out t!at are $ontrolled b& not-so-man& eo le - and &ou>ve got eo le aggregating around single (allets. # mean t!ere)s lots of t!ings li+e t!is (!ere t!e s&stem be$omes too $entraliDed and t!en it loses t!e value t!at it !ad" (!i$! (as t!at it (as de$entraliDed s&stem. 6nfortunatel&" (e don)t !ave full $ontrol over t!at but again t!at +inda goes ba$+ to t!e e7 eriment t!at is Bit$oin.

ABL: Aside from ro<e$ts &ou are involved in dire$tl&" (!o do &ou t!in+ out t!ere is a s!ining e7am le of someone (!o is doing it rig!tA Bou +no(" (!atever it is t!at t!e&>re doing" (!atever t!eir ro<e$t is" (!o is doing it rig!tA

AR: # gotta sa& t!at #)m reall& im ressed (it! Bit a&. Bit a&" # t!in+" is roviding valuable servi$e" and # guess Coinbase" no(. # s!ouldn>t <ust sa& Bit a& but t!e& (ere t!e ones t!at !ave reall& been t!e most roa$tive and t!e&>re first. #t seems t!at t!ere are eo le (it! bit$oins (!o (anna s end t!em in la$es" and t!e& $an>t s end t!em. And Bit a& is reall&" reall& a$$elerating t!e ot!er side of t!at e8uation. Even if t!e& are" &ou +no(" adding some $entraliDation" adding a middle-man to t!e e8uation. *!e& are at least balan$ing t!e s&stem. *!e& are getting eo le to a$$e t bit$oin. ?eo le (!o don>t even $are about Bit$oin $an no( a$$e t bit$oin and t!e& never !ave to tou$! Bit$oin. 4ure" t!e& don)t $are about Bit$oin !iloso !& 9but: t!at reall& !el s" to be able to !ave an& servi$e" basi$all&" a$$e t bit$oin and get t!e benefits of it (it!out...

ABL: Go t!roug! t!e learning $urve" &ea!.

AR: 4o # mean" # t!in+ t!at)s somet!ing t!at)s reall& valuable. # mean" in t!e end (e don)t (anna end u (it! <ust a (!ole anot!er $redit $ard s&stem (!ere Bit a& and Coinbase are t!e $redit $ard $om anies in our ne( ost-Bit$oin (orld but" at least in terms of a$$eleration" # t!in+ t!at>s somet!ing bit$oin needed.

ABL: Alan Reiner" Armor& (allet. *!an+ &ou for &our time.

AR: 0& leasure.

ABL: *!an+s for tuning into t!is s e$ial e isode of Let)s *al+ Bit$oin. '!et!er &ou li+ed" loved" or !ated t!e s!o(" (e (anna +no( (!at &ou t!in+. ?lease send all listener mail to adam@letstal+bit$oin.$om Content for t!is e isode (as rovided b& Rob Banagale and Alan Reiner. 0usi$ for t!is e isode (as rovided b& 5ared Rubens. ,or lin+s to !is (or+ visit (((.letstal+bit$oin.$omKmusi$ 'e !ave got lots of $ontent $oming u but # $an)t" for t!e life of me" tell &ou (!at (ill be ne7t" so #>ve de$ided to sto ma+ing guesses !ere until (e $an get t!e editorial $alendar u and fun$tional. *!an+s so mu$! for &our su ort. #f &ou>d li+e to donate to t!e s!o(" lease visit (((.letstal+bit$oin.$om. 4ee &ou ne7t time. --This transcription was done by Danish Murad and was reviewed by Abdussamad (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php action!pro"ile#u!$%&$'(. )t is released under the *reative *ommons +., Attribution (** -. +.,( license: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/+.,/