Colette Peters Deposition

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www.LNScourtreporting.com
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IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF THE STATE OF OREGON
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FOR THE COUNTY OF MARION
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ROBERT KILLGORE, )
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Plaintiff, )
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vs. ) Case No. 13C13825
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STATE OF OREGON, DEPARTMENT )
OF CORRECTIONS, )
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Defendant. )
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______________________________)
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DEPOSITION OF COLETTE PETERS
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Taken on behalf of Plaintiff
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* * *
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BE IT REMEMBERED THAT the deposition of
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COLETTE PETERS was taken before KIM NERHEIM,
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a Certified Shorthand Reporter for Oregon, on
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Friday, September 20, 2013, commencing at the
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hour of 12:57 p.m., in the offices of the Oregon
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Department of Justice, 1162 Court Street NE,
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Salem, Oregon.
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APPEARANCES:
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BUSSE & HUNT
BY MR. RICHARD C. BUSSE
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621 S.W. Morrison Street, Suite 521
Portland, Oregon 97205
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503-248-0504
rbusse@busseandhunt.com
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Attorney for Plaintiff.
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OREGON DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE
BY MR. STEVEN M. LIPPOLD
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1162 Court Street NE
Salem, Oregon 97301
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503-947-4700
steve.lippold@doj.state.or.us
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Attorney for Defendant.
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ALSO PRESENT: Robert Killgore
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* * *
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COLETTE PETERS
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having first been sworn by the reporter,
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testified under oath as follows:
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EXAMINATION
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BY MR. BUSSE:
12:57:38 7
Q Would you please state your full name for the record.
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A Colette -- do I need to spell it? C-o-l-e-t-t-e.
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Marie and Snyder are two of my middle names, and my last
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name is Peters.
12:57:50 11
Q And your residence address, please?
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A I would prefer to give you my business address.
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MR. LIPPOLD: We'll do that off --
12:57:58 14
Q BY MR. BUSSE: I have to do it for subpoena purposes.
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MR. LIPPOLD: Let's do this, Rich. I will,
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on the record, declare that I will ensure her attendance
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at anything, and if you need her I will get her.
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MR. BUSSE: Well, the problem --
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MR. LIPPOLD: There are security concerns of
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her giving out her address, and, as a result --
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MR. BUSSE: I have no problem with keeping
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it confidential. But if somebody leaves, then you have no
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longer any control, so...
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MR. LIPPOLD: Let's go off the record, then?
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MR. BUSSE: Yeah, that's fine.
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(A discussion was held off the record.)
12:59:36 2
Q BY MR. BUSSE: Ms. Peters, my name is Rich Busse.
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I'm here to ask you questions in connection with the case
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that Mr. Killgore filed against the State. If at any time
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you don't understand my question, don't hesitate to ask me
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to rephrase; I'd be happy to do that for you, okay?
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A Okay.
12:59:49 8
Q Also, as you did, it's good to continue to get a good
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strong verbal response, rather than a shake or nod of the
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head or "uh-huh" or "huh-uh." Will you try and continue
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to do that for us, please?
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A Yes.
13:00:00 13
Q Where are you currently employed?
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A The Oregon Department of Corrections.
13:00:02 15
Q In what capacity?
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A As the director.
13:00:04 17
Q For how long have you been so employed?
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A Since February of last year.
13:00:08 19
Q When in February?
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A I believe my first date was February 6th, so on or
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around February 6th.
13:00:16 22
Q What was your job before that?
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A Director of the Oregon Youth Authority.
13:00:20 24
Q For how long?
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A Since July of 2009.
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13:00:26 1
Q And before that?
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A Before that, I was a stay-at-home mom for
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approximately six months.
13:00:34 4
Q And before that?
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A Assistant Director and Inspector General at the
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Department of Corrections.
13:00:46 7
Q For how long?
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A I arrived at the Department of Corrections in April
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of 2004 as the public affairs administrator and was
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promoted to Assistant Director and Inspector General in
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2006.
13:01:14 12
Q What did you do before that?
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A I worked for the Colorado legislature.
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Q In what capacity?
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A As their nonpartisan criminal justice research staff,
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focusing on criminal justice issues.
13:01:29 17
Q For how long?
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A You're testing my memory. From, it would have been
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December of 2003 back to the fall of 1998.
13:01:44 20
Q And before that?
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A I worked for the Denver Police Department.
13:01:49 22
Q In what capacity?
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A As -- I ran the crisis mediation unit inside the
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Crimes Against Persons Bureau.
13:01:57 25
Q How long?
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A From the fall of 1995 until I began working for the
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Colorado legislature in '98.
13:02:04 3
Q And before that?
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A Before that, I worked for Breck Preparatory School in
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Minneapolis, Minnesota.
13:02:19 6
Q In what capacity?
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A An assistant to the principal.
13:02:31 8
Q What year are we back to?
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A That was the summer of 1995.
13:02:35 10
Q What's your age?
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A 42.
13:02:37 12
Q And date of birth?
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A 1/1/71.
13:02:40 14
Q What's your education?
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A I have a Master's degree in criminal justice and a
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Bachelor's degree in psychology.
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Q Where did you get your Master's?
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A The University of Colorado.
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Q What year?
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A Let's see, I graduated in 1998.
13:03:07 21
Q And your Bachelor's, where?
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A The College of Saint Benedict in Saint Joseph,
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Minnesota.
13:03:12 24
Q What year?
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A 1993.
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13:03:19 1
Q Who do you report to?
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A The governor.
13:03:28 3
Q And does Mr. Morrow report to you?
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A He does.
13:03:34 5
Q What are your job duties?
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A To oversee the Oregon Department of Corrections,
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which is responsible for 4300 employees, approximately
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14,500 inmates inside our prisons, and either indirect or
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direct responsibility over approximately 31,000 felons on
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supervision in the community.
13:03:56 11
Q And is it part of your job to see to it that the
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department operates within the law?
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A It is.
13:04:06 14
Q And were you aware, upon your appointment as
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Director, that the Oregon Constitution provides that all
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income generated from prison work programs were to be kept
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separate from General Fund accounts?
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A I am.
13:04:17 19
Q And were you also aware that those monies were only
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to be used for implementing, maintaining, and developing
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prison work programs?
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A Yes.
13:04:34 23
Q Is it the policy of the department to treat its
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employees fairly and in good faith?
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A It is.
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13:04:40 1
Q And to give them notice of any perceived deficiencies
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so that they have a fair opportunity to correct them?
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A It is.
13:04:48 4
Q And in the event of employee misconduct, to withhold
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judgment until an investigation of that is complete?
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A Can you be more clear around "investigation"?
13:05:00 7
Q Is it your policy that if some employee misconduct is
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brought to your attention that you don't just jump to a
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conclusion about it, you first conduct a full and fair
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investigation?
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A That is correct.
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Q And as part of completing the investigation, before
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you arrive at a judgment, to get both sides to the story?
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A Yes.
13:05:24 15
Q Do you ever discipline subordinates?
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A Yes.
13:05:32 17
Q What factors do you take into account in determining
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whether and how much to discipline?
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A It depends on each individual case. I definitely
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focus on the individual that's sitting before me and try
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to gather as many facts about the situation as possible
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before garnering any decision.
13:05:47 23
Q Would you consider such factors as the seriousness of
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the offense?
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A Yes, no doubt.
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13:05:52 1
Q And whether it's a repeat offense?
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A Yes.
13:05:55 3
Q And whether the standard of behavior is clearly
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communicated?
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A Yes.
13:05:59 6
Q And whether the standard is understood by the person?
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A Yes.
13:06:03 8
Q And that person's overall performance history?
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A Yes. It -- yes, in most cases, if I might clarify.
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Should someone have clear conduct for years and engage in
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unethical or criminal behavior, I don't believe that the
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past -- or at least the past experience wouldn't weigh as
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highly for me.
13:06:24 14
Q Have you disciplined any subordinates other than
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Mr. Killgore in the last year?
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A For clarification, directly as the director, or
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within the organization have employees been disciplined?
13:06:43 18
Q Directly as the director.
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A No.
13:06:47 20
Q Have you terminated any directly as the director?
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A No.
13:06:51 22
Q In any previous capacity with the State, have you
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disciplined or terminated employees?
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A Yes.
13:06:57 25
Q And are the forms of discipline that you can advert
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to, do they include such things as verbal warnings?
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A Yes.
13:07:07 3
Q And written warnings?
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A Yes.
13:07:09 5
Q And if someone has a performance issue, can you put
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them on a plan of assistance to help improve their
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performance?
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A That is an option.
13:07:18 9
Q And if you give somebody a work plan to try and
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improve their performance, is the plan itself to be
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realistic and attainable?
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A Yes.
13:07:29 13
Q Now, are you the person who decided to fire
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Mr. Killgore?
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A I am the person that decided to end the employment
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relationship with Mr. Killgore.
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Q And was that your decision to make?
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A Yes.
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Q Did anyone provide any input into that decision?
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A Yes.
13:07:47 21
Q And who was that?
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A I don't know that I would be able to recall everyone
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complete -- you know, an entire -- a complete list, but I
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never make decisions like that in a vacuum, I know that I
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consulted with members of the policy group, I consulted
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with DOJ lawyers and, again, as I said earlier in
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your earlier questioning, really tried to gather as much
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information as possible before making that decision.
13:08:16 4
Q And when was that decision made?
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A I believe it was March of -- I believe it was March.
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Q And was that early, mid, or late March?
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A I believe it was mid-March.
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Q How many days or weeks prior to the termination being
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effected was it that that decision was reached?
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A I don't recall.
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Q And prior to reaching the decision, when were your
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consultations with members of your policy group?
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A During my decision making, but the exact dates I do
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not remember.
13:08:58 15
Q Would that have also been in that early March period?
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A Again, I don't remember the exact date.
13:09:07 17
Q Over -- Of course. Over what period of time did
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those consultations extend?
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A You know, again, if you're looking for a range, I
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would say weeks prior to the decision.
13:09:27 21
Q Okay. Who do you recall speaking with on the policy
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group about that?
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A I recall speaking to Chane Griggs, Michael Gower,
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Leonard Williamson. I think that was the -- the only
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policy group members that I recall speaking to about this
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decision.
13:10:03 2
Q And who were the policy group members at that time
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besides those three?
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A Again, I would have to go back and look in March. We
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have had some changes, and I'm not remembering when people
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came and went.
13:10:19 7
Q Is there a document that would tell us who those
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persons were?
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A Sure.
13:10:23 10
Q And what would that document be called?
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A Well, it would be our organizational chart at that
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time.
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MR. BUSSE: Would you make a note to me to
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request to have produced the organizational chart of the
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DOC policy group as of March 2013.
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Q BY MR. BUSSE: And so what did you and Chane Griggs
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discuss on that subject?
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A I don't remember the specifics of the conversation.
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I will tell you that these decisions I do not take
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lightly; I labor over them, I lose sleep over them. And
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so the conversations that I had would have been around
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past performance, direction that we're trying to take the
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agency, and for me it's -- I always err on the side of
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helping make the person succeed and trying to figure out
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if we had crossed a line where that success just couldn't
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occur.
13:11:20 2
Q Did you approach Chane Griggs, or did he approach
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you?
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A Chane Griggs is a woman. And I approached her.
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Q Oh, thank you.
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And do you recall if that was the first person
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you spoke with or the last, or which in order?
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A I do not recall.
13:11:34 9
Q And what is her job title?
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A She was the assistant director responsible for the
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offender management and rehabilitation division.
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Q And for what purpose were you discussing the subject
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with her?
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A As a member of my executive team.
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Q Was there something about what she did in her role as
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assistant director that gave her special knowledge about
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the subject?
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A Can you be more clear? Special knowledge about
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Oregon Corrections Enterprise or around leadership for the
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agency?
13:12:07 21
Q Why her as opposed to some other member of the policy
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group that you did not speak with?
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A I think for me, the re -- the reasons I would be
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drawn to those three in engaging in a conversation like
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this is relying on their sense of leadership, their
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seniority in the agency, and simply from that perspective.
13:12:40 2
Q How long was your conversation with Chane Griggs?
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A I don't know -- I wouldn't say it was a single
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conversation, I think it was an ongoing conversation over
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time as I deliberated.
13:12:55 6
Q The ongoing conversation involved how many contacts?
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A I do not recall.
13:13:00 8
Q What's your best estimate?
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A Six conversations, perhaps.
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Q All right. Do you recall anything that you said to
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her or she said to you in the first of the six?
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A No, nothing particular.
13:13:23 13
Q The second?
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A No. I won't recall -- I'm not recalling specifics of
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any of those conversations.
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Q Do you recall the substance of any piece of
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information that she provided or piece of advice?
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A I don't remember specifics. One of the things that
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she does well is probe and just ask questions and to make
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sure that I'm not missing anything and I've taken
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everything into account, but I don't remember specifics.
13:14:01 22
Q Do you remember the substance of any information you
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gave to her during any of those six conversations about
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that subject?
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A No, I don't -- you know, I don't recall specifically.
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Generally, what I would do in those conversations is
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really share the information I know around performance and
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where we're -- where I'm wanting to go from a vision
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perspective.
13:14:25 5
Q Did you discuss options to termination with her
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during any of those six conversations?
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A And can you be more clear? You mean options other
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than termination?
13:14:37 9
Q Right. Did you discuss an array of options in
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dealing with the issue?
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A I don't know that I talked about a range of options
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with either of those three individuals. I would -- I'm
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confident that I talked about all of the conversations I
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had had with Rob over the year trying to get him to
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perform at the level that I needed him to perform at.
13:15:17 16
Q Was there a conversation with Mr. Killgore during
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2012 in which you told him he was not performing up to
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standard?
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A Yes, there were multiple conversations.
13:15:30 20
Q And when was the first?
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A Shortly after my arrival at DOC.
13:15:38 22
Q What did you say to him to convey that he was not
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performing --
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A We --
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Q -- up to standards -- May I finish?
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A Pardon me.
13:15:43 2
Q Thank you. She can only take down one of us at a
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time, so I'll try not to step on your response, if you try
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to withhold your response before I complete my question.
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A Of course.
13:15:55 6
Q What is the first conversation that you can recall
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having with Mr. Killgore at which you stated to him that
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you did not believe his performance was up to standard?
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MR. LIPPOLD: Object to the form of the
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question, vague. Go ahead.
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A I remember having conversations with Mr. Killgore
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around the CAFR issue early on in my tenure at the
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Department of Corrections and struggling to find clarity
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on what his recommendation was in moving forward.
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Q BY MR. BUSSE: In the conversation on the CAFR
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issue -- And that was in about July? August?
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A February.
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Q February, okay.
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Tell me the substance of your conversation
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with Mr. Killgore on the CAFR issue in February and how
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you communicated to him that you believed his performance
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to be substandard.
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A Again, I don't remember specifics, but I remember
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generally having conversations and e-mails with
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Mr. Killgore on how to manage the CAFR conversation with
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him.
13:16:57 2
Q Did you tell him, "Rob, I believe your performance is
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substandard"?
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A No, I never used those words.
13:17:07 5
Q Okay. How did you -- what words did you use to
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communicate in 2012 at any time that you believed his
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performance to be substandard?
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A Again, I don't recall specific words, I just remember
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having multiple conversations with Rob around vision and
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where we wanted to go and the direction that we wanted to
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take Oregon Corrections Enterprise in and then having to
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have conversations later because I noted he headed in a
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different direction.
13:17:32 14
Q Well, you said that "I had conversations with him in
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which I conveyed that he was not performing up to
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standard," and I am entitled to find out when you said
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that to him. Did you ever say that to him?
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A I never used those words.
13:17:48 19
Q Did you use words like that?
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A Yes.
13:17:50 21
Q What words like that did you use?
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A Again, I don't recall the specific words.
13:17:55 23
Q Is it your practice, where you have a performer who
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is substandard and won't comply with your direction, to
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note that somewhere?
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A Um, at the executive level, it typically isn't my
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practice; however, in this case, many of the conversations
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that we had with Mr. Killgore actually were with the
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deputy director and myself, and the deputy was good at
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capturing the conversations that happened and -- and send
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them, then, to Rob in e-mail following many of our
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meetings.
13:18:37 8
Q Did you discipline him before his termination?
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A No.
13:18:40 10
Q Verbally or in writing?
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A So I had multiple conversations with Mr. Killgore
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around him not taking the organization in the direction
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that I wanted. Was it formal discipline? No.
13:18:57 14
Q Did you confer with -- Who is your HR liaison?
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A Um, at the time, the HR liaison was -- Sadly, I'm
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drawing a blank. At the time, the HR liaison was --
13:19:27 17
Q He can't help you.
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A I know.
13:19:29 19
Q You're looking at Mr. Lippold here.
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Maybe that --
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A Thank you.
13:19:36 22
Q Maybe it will come to you.
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A Assistant Director Gary Sims.
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Q Did you ever talk with Mr. Sims about a performance
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problem that you were having with Mr. Killgore?
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A I did not.
13:19:49 2
Q Why not?
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A The -- the HR function at OCE is separate than with
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DOC, so I relied on the individuals that I presented and
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DOJ to help me work through the HR issues.
13:20:08 6
Q Have you ever consulted with Mr. Sims on HR issues?
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A In his capacity as Assistant Director of HR, I'm sure
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I did on some employee issues. It would be more likely,
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however, that Mr. Sims would be briefing me on employee
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issues in that capacity.
13:20:31 11
Q Mr. Gower, what is his job title?
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A He's the assistant director responsible for
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operations.
13:20:37 14
Q Now, did you have one conversation or more than one
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conversation to discuss Mr. Killgore's performance issues
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before his termination?
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MR. LIPPOLD: Objection, vague. Go ahead.
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A For clarification, with Mr. Gower?
13:20:53 19
Q BY MR. BUSSE: Yes.
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A I did have multiple conversations with Mr. Gower; how
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many, I do not know.
13:21:00 22
Q All right. Do you recall approximately how many?
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A I'll do the same approximation for him, it was
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probably around six.
13:21:07 25
Q And do you recall anything that you said to Mr. Gower
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in any of those conversations about the performance issues
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you were observing?
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A Again, no, no specifics.
13:21:20 4
Q Do you recall anything that Mr. Gower said in
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substance at any of those six conversations?
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A No, I don't recall any specifics.
13:21:28 7
Q How about Mr. Williamson? How many times did you
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speak with him about Mr. Killgore's performance issues?
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A Mr. Williamson, I consulted probably more than six.
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I probably consulted with him a dozen times --
13:21:44 11
Q All right.
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A -- in his role as Inspector General.
13:21:50 13
Q And tell me about the inspector general in the DOC.
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What role does the inspector general have, if any, with
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respect to personnel issues?
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A He is responsible for investigating all criminal or
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unethical behavior of any of the employees in the
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department. He is also our liaison to the Department of
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Justice, and that would have been why I consulted with him
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more in this particular case.
13:22:23 21
Q Well, liaison to the Department of Justice with
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regard to personnel issues?
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A Yes.
13:22:28 24
Q Okay.
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A And inmate -- pardon me. And inmate litigation.
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13:22:35 1
Q Did you consult with Mr. Williamson in writing or
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verbally?
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A Verbally.
13:22:49 4
Q And can you remember anything that you said to
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Mr. Williamson in any of the 12 meetings that you estimate
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you had with him on that subject?
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A No, nothing specific, but would have ranged from not
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only the conversations like I had with Ms. Griggs talking
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about performance and past history, but he also helped me,
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as liaison with DOJ, to figure out what our options were.
13:23:17 11
Q Do you recall anything that he said to you in terms
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of those options?
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question, may call for attorney/client privilege. Can I
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take a break to consult with my client to know what advice
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she's talking about so it's not a waiver of
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attorney/client privilege?
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MR. BUSSE: I think you can ask her on the
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record what the context was of the consultation, and I
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would have no objection to you doing that.
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MR. LIPPOLD: Okay. At this time?
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Okay, Ms. Peters, you had been asked a
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question about consultation you had had with Leonard
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Williamson. You prefaced that by indicating that he was a
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liaison with the DOJ. Mr. Busse had asked you a question
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about what options he provided to you after he had
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consulted with DOJ.
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MR. BUSSE: I'm not sure that that was --
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MR. LIPPOLD: That was what I heard.
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MR. BUSSE: Okay.
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MR. LIPPOLD: Do you wish me to continue, or
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do you have a different question?
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MR. BUSSE: You can go ahead and ask your
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question, and then I may have further questions.
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MR. LIPPOLD: And did Mr. Williamson
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indicate to you whether any of these options were provided
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to him through counsel with DOJ?
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THE WITNESS: Yes, they were provided
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through counsel with DOJ.
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MR. LIPPOLD: So I'm going to object to the
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asking of the questions further. I do not want this to be
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a waiver of any attorney/client privilege.
13:25:05 18
Q BY MR. BUSSE: Ms. Peters, as the inspector general,
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were you looking to Mr. Williamson for legal advice, or
20
no?
21
A No. I was looking to DOJ for legal advice.
13:25:25 22
Q Oh, okay.
23
MR. BUSSE: So I believe, under those
24
circumstances, then, what Mr. Williamson said to this
25
witness is not privileged and, therefore -- and to the
23
1
extent that there were those conversations between those
2
two individuals, neither of whom can claim the privilege,
3
then I must insist on a response about the options that
4
he, Mr. Williamson, told you were available to you.
5
MR. LIPPOLD: And I further object, I
6
disagree with your analysis. I believe that if the advice
7
was given to DOJ -- by DOJ, the attorney, to
8
Mr. Williamson at the request of the director, that his
9
then briefing her on the DOJ information would still be
10
privileged, and I'm going to instruct the witness not to
11
answer that question. We'll leave the deposition open for
12
interpretation by the Court.
13:26:29 13
Q BY MR. BUSSE: With regard to Mr. Williamson, Counsel
14
indicated that he was telling you what the Department of
15
Justice was telling him. Did you have conversations in
16
which Mr. Williamson was providing you with an array of
17
options before that consultation?
18
A To be clear, you're asking before the DOJ
19
consultation?
13:26:49 20
Q Right. Right.
21
A No, I do not recall he offered any suggestions or
22
alternatives prior to that consultation regarding options.
13:27:04 23
Q So in the 12 conversations you had, did he just go to
24
the DOJ after the first conversation, or when in that
25
interlude of conversations did that consultation occur?
24
1
A I don't recall.
13:27:20 2
Q Before that consultation occurred, were there some
3
conversations, at least, that you had had with
4
Mr. Williamson?
5
A Yes.
13:27:27 6
Q And in any of those conversations, can you tell me
7
what he told you about your -- the things that you could
8
do to remedy the issue?
9
A I don't recall any specifics.
13:27:40 10
Q Do you recall anything that you told him in any of
11
those conversations before he went to the Department of
12
Justice?
13
A Again, not any specifics, but it is likely the
14
conversations were very similar to the ones I had with
15
Ms. Griggs and Mr. Gower where I talked about the issues
16
as I saw them over the year and deliberated with them.
13:28:08 17
Q There's a newspaper report, I'm going to show you an
18
exhibit --
19
MR. BUSSE: Counsel, you already have the
20
copy of it.
21
MR. LIPPOLD: Yeah, it was the last one, I
22
think. Exhibit 131? Yes.
13:28:31 23
Q BY MR. BUSSE: And there's a newspaper report by the
24
Statesman Journal. And do you have that document in front
25
of you?
25
1
A I do.
13:28:59 2
Q If you'll turn to Page 3.
3
A (Complied.)
13:29:08 4
Q The newspaper article reports that in -- on
5
Paragraph 4, that "Peters also insisted on October 26th
6
that she had no plans to fire Killgore." Is that true?
7
A That is true.
13:29:23 8
Q And then two paragraphs down, it's reported that you
9
said, "Quite the opposite, in fact; that's not the path we
10
want to go down, we want to make him a success." Was that
11
true?
12
A That is correct.
13:29:37 13
Q And then it goes further and says, "...but we want to
14
continue the conversation where we left it, which is 'you
15
understand you're not meeting our expectations." Do you
16
see that?
17
A I do.
13:29:51 18
Q Did you say that to him at any time during 2012?
19
A I don't recall that I used those words specifically,
20
but I know that I had conversations around him not meeting
21
my expectations.
13:30:03 22
Q When you say "around not meeting our...," did you
23
ever indicate to him that he was not performing up to the
24
level of performance that you expected in an OCE director?
25
A Yes.
26
13:30:16 1
Q When did you say anything like that to him?
2
A We had multiple conversations around where I wanted
3
the Oregon Corrections Enterprise to go; that I want it to
4
remain a semi-independent agency; that I wanted to come up
5
with a business plan that would not just hire over a
6
thousand inmates but potentially 10,000 and that the --
7
the planning that he was taking in was actually not in
8
line with that direction.
13:30:52 9
Q Apart from giving feedback about his planning being
10
in the direction, did you ever give him an evaluation
11
during that year concerning his performance?
12
13
question. Go ahead.
14
A I did not give Mr. Killgore a formal performance
15
evaluation during that year.
13:31:13 16
Q BY MR. BUSSE: Well, informally, did you say, "Based
17
upon what you're doing, you're just not cuttin' it," or
18
anything like that?
19
20
21
A No, I never said "you're not cutting it." What I did
22
was talk about my frustration around him not seeming to
23
align with the vision of where I wanted Oregon Corrections
24
Enterprise to go.
13:31:37 25
Q BY MR. BUSSE: When did you say that you were
27
1
frustrated about that?
2
A You know, I think I probably began to get frustrated
3
in the summer of 2012/early fall where it seemed that I
4
would get him to a place of understanding and then the
5
very next meeting we would have he would be back in a
6
different place.
13:32:00 7
Q And that was pertaining to what issue in particular?
8
A Um, um, I would say multiple issues. Some of his
9
concerns around past spending; we would, as an example,
10
talk about his concerns around OCE paying for the funeral
11
of Officer Buddy Herron and -- or for parts of the funeral
12
of Officer Buddy Herron and we would have what I thought
13
would be a healthy conversation around my thinking and how
14
it was something that was appropriate and was something
15
that was valued, and he would then agree to that and say,
16
"You're right, I understand your logic, that makes
17
complete sense," and then I would meet with him again and
18
he would go back to, "I have concerns about that
19
particular event."
13:32:53 20
Q And that --
21
A But --
13:32:56 22
Q Excuse me, go ahead.
23
A And that's just one example of feeling like I was
24
getting him heading in a direction and focusing on the
25
future and then, at the very next meeting, he would turn
28
1
to the past again, either with that situation or another
2
situation I hadn't heard of that was concerning to him, as
3
well.
13:33:14 4
Q And that was frustrating to you.
5
A You know, for me -- and I think I wrote it in an
6
e-mail to him in August. For me, if there's something
7
that's not right in the organization, if there's something
8
we're not doing correctly, I want to know about it and
9
then I want to solve it and move on. And so that was the
10
conversation I had with Rob, which was, "Please, all of
11
your concerns that you have over the last ten years,
12
please put them together, we will go through them, we will
13
either refer them to the inspector general, the State
14
Police, HR, whomever needs to review them and we'll
15
resolve them and hold people accountable if need be, and
16
then I really need you to focus on the future, I really
17
want to figure out how we can take Oregon Corrections
18
Enterprise to the next level."
13:34:01 19
Q My question was, what you described using the Buddy
20
Herron funeral position, that that was frustrating to you,
21
his vacillation on that; is that correct?
22
A His vacillation generally. That was just one example
23
of where he vacillated.
13:34:20 24
Q And that caused frustration to you; correct?
25
A Correct.
29
13:34:23 1
Q Thank you.
2
And you said, you just got through saying
3
that, "Hey, I told him to, you know, write a list of what
4
his concerns were, we will refer them to the State Police,
5
whomever." Where did you ever tell him where you'd --
6
what you would do with the list?
7
A Um, I don't recall if it was specifically in the
8
e-mail that I wrote, but I know we at least talked about
9
that.
13:34:46 10
Q Tell me what you said.
11
A I don't remember specifically. But typically, when
12
people bring cases forward, we have different avenues,
13
depending on what the allegations are. So it might be an
14
appropriate Inspector General review, Oregon State Police
15
review, HR review; it would depend on the particular
16
issue. But I know I communicated to him that we would
17
look at everything he was concerned about and have it
18
appropriately investigated.
13:35:59 19
Q Why was Mr. Killgore terminated?
20
A For a variety of reasons. Primarily, because he was
21
not in line with the vision of where I wanted to take the
22
agency, but, also, we had begun hearing concerns around a
23
hostile work environment, and that was part of my decision
24
making, as well.
13:36:25 25
Q Anything else?
30
1
A You know, for me, it really was a determination
2
around if I thought he was the individual to take the
3
organization to the place that was in line with my vision.
13:36:55 4
Q The first item you mentioned.
5
A M-hm.
13:36:57 6
Q That's a "yes"?
7
A Yes.
13:37:03 8
Q And he was not in line with that vision in what
9
respect?
10
A So I had continually asked him to come up with a
11
business case plan that would take the organization from
12
employing approximately 1100 inmates to -- you know, I
13
would often say "10,000" if it was possible, clearly
14
recognizing that we still need inmates to do other work
15
inside our prisons, but wanting really to take an
16
organization that had been financially afloat now for over
17
a decade and figuring out how to expand its operations.
18
He seemed very set on figuring out how to move
19
the Oregon Corrections Enterprise outside of the purview
20
of the Department of Corrections, and that was a model
21
that had occurred years ago; the agency almost went
22
bankrupt when it happened. And with my background and
23
understanding of how intimately those two organizations
24
need to work together, I knew that that was a flawed
25
model, and I said to him time and time again that I was
31
1
not interested in pursuing even that conversation.
13:38:16 2
Q Anything else?
3
A Not that I can recall.
4
MR. LIPPOLD: Just a moment.
5
(Counsel conferred with the witness.)
6
THE WITNESS: Yes. Okay.
7
A So, for the record, many of my reasons were laid out
8
in the termination letter.
13:38:57 9
Q BY MR. BUSSE: Can you think of anything else?
10
A Not at this time.
13:39:03 11
Q Were there any reasons that were not laid out in the
12
termination letter?
13
A Again, I haven't reviewed the termination letter in
14
quite some time, but I do know that I would have laid all
15
of the facts before me before making the -- making the
16
decision. And all of that would have been way more fresh
17
back in March.
13:39:28 18
Q When you say lay the facts before you, did you have
19
any documents that you reviewed?
20
A I know I would have reviewed prior e-mail
21
communications between Mr. Killgore and myself.
13:39:40 22
Q Do you recall which ones?
23
A It would be my practice to review all of them, if not
24
nearly all of them.
13:39:53 25
Q Anything else?
32
1
A Not that I can recall.
13:40:11 2
Q And what was his position on how many inmates OCE
3
should employ?
4
5
question, calls for speculation. Go ahead.
6
A I don't know that Mr. Killgore ever gave me an
7
estimate.
13:40:36 8
Q BY MR. BUSSE: Was there discussion with you about
9
expansion?
10
A Yes, we had multiple conversations around expansion.
13:40:43 11
Q Did you ever convey to him that those ideas of his on
12
the subject of expansion of the number of inmates in the
13
program were unsatisfactory?
14
A It was my hope -- Excuse me, to answer your
15
question -- Actually, can you ask the question again,
16
please, Mr. Busse?
17
MR. BUSSE: Would you read it back.
18
(The question was read by the reporter.)
19
A So to answer your question, he didn't ever provide me
20
with a plan to expand the number of inmates in that
21
program.
13:41:29 22
Q BY MR. BUSSE: And so are the e-mails about that
23
"Where's the plan, where's the plan?"
24
A I don't recall a specific e-mail, but I know there
25
were conversations. And it was my hope that the PSU
33
1
review was going to provide that business case plan. It
2
did not.
13:41:52 3
Q Did you have conversations with him in which you
4
indicated your desire that the scope of work for the PSU
5
project should include that?
6
A Yes.
13:42:02 7
Q And you saw the scope of work on the contract for the
8
PSU contract. Did you talk with him about the scope of
9
work?
10
11
question, introduces facts not in evidence. Go ahead.
12
A I did, and it was because of those conversations that
13
the scope of work was changed.
13:42:24 14
Q BY MR. BUSSE: To suit your desire --
15
A Correct.
13:42:31 16
Q -- correct? Thank you.
17
A At least one version of the revised was one that I
18
could agree with.
13:42:47 19
Q Great.
20
And when was it that he first led you to
21
believe he was not in line with the vision that you wanted
22
to take the department?
23
A I think from the -- the beginning of the
24
conversation. I believe the Phase I PSU report led me to
25
believe that he had other ideas in mind, that's what --
34
1
that's what inspired me to have those conversations with
2
him. We were able to, at one point, convince PSU to not
3
engage in a conversation that separated the two entities
4
in order to create that new business plan and that new
5
future.
6
Ultimately, that is not -- that is not how
7
they concluded their work, and Rob made it very clear that
8
separating those two entities was something that he
9
desired.
13:43:48 10
Q But that was something that was manifest to you, him
11
not being in line with your vision, soon after you became
12
Director?
13
A Yes. Yes. They had already begun and engaged in the
14
PSU work prior to me coming on board at DOC.
13:44:07 15
Q And you recall having conversations about the
16
disconnect on the vision through the spring and summer --
17
A Yes, sir, early on.
13:44:17 18
Q -- of 2012?
19
A Correct.
13:44:22 20
Q Were there any such conversations in the fall of 2012
21
on that same subject?
22
A Yes, I'm sure there had to have been in the fall, as
23
well. I don't -- I don't recall when the report was
24
finalized, but we would have been engaged in those
25
conversations until that report was finalized.
35
13:44:52 1
Q And do you recall any conversations, then, on that
2
same subject in October?
3
A Not specifically in October, but I know the
4
conversations were ongoing during the entire work of the
5
PSU report.
13:45:03 6
Q How about November, any specific conversations in
7
November?
8
A Again, I don't recall specifics, but I know that the
9
conversations were ongoing until that report was
10
completed.
13:45:12 11
Q How about December?
12
A Again, I don't recall any specifics, but I know the
13
conversations continued during the entirety of the PSU
14
work.
13:45:23 15
Q When was it completed?
16
A I don't recall.
13:45:27 17
Q Okay. How about January, do you recall any
18
conversations in January on that subject?
19
A So I don't recall any specific conversations -- or,
20
excuse me, any specific time frame for those
21
conversations, but I do know that the conversations
22
continued during the entire work of PSU.
13:45:44 23
Q How about February?
24
A That would include February.
13:45:59 25
Q And were there any events or incidents or
36
1
conversations in March that you can recall that were on
2
that same subject?
3
A Again, my statement would refer to March, as well.
13:46:09 4
Q And I'm talking about March of 2013.
5
A M-hm.
13:46:12 6
Q You understood that.
7
A Yes.
13:46:19 8
Q Okay. Prior to his termination, had Mr. Killgore
9
objected to any of the requests the Department of
10
Corrections was making concerning the expenditure of OCE
11
funds?
12
A Yes.
13:46:37 13
Q And were you aware, at the time that you took over,
14
that he had expressed those concerns?
15
A Yes.
13:46:50 16
Q When did you first learn of his concerns?
17
A I don't recall exactly when I first learned of his
18
concerns, but I do know that when I became Director and he
19
brought those concerns forward we, very early on in my
20
tenure, created a memorandum of understanding to provide
21
clarity around the issue.
13:47:21 22
Q And that issue having to do with the Constitutional
23
mandate that the funds from prison work programs be used
24
only for implementing, maintaining, and developing prison
25
work programs?
37
1
A Yes.
13:47:36 2
Q And you knew that even before you were the director;
3
correct?
4
A For clarification, knew of his concerns?
13:47:44 5
Q No, no. Of the Constitutional limitation.
6
A I did.
13:47:48 7
Q Okay. For what period of time had you known about it
8
prior to that?
9
A I would have learned that in coming to the Department
10
of Corrections in the spring of 2004 as the public affairs
11
administrator.
13:48:08 12
Q And what concerns of his did you come to learn of
13
prior to assuming the directorship?
14
A I had heard from Director Williams that Mr. Killgore
15
had concerns around some of the expenditures prior to his
16
departure.
13:48:31 17
Q And what did Mr. Williams tell you were
18
Mr. Killgore's concerns?
19
A I don't remember all of the specifics. I do remember
20
two cases in particular, and those were paying for some of
21
the items at Officer Buddy Herron's funeral and a donation
22
made to either a specific Boy Scout troop or Boy Scouts
23
generally.
13:48:52 24
Q And what did Mr. Williams tell you he made of those
25
concerns?
38
1
A Um, I don't remember the specifics, but generally he
2
had talked through the -- his logic around those
3
expenditures with Mr. Killgore and thought that
4
Mr. Killgore understood and agreed with his thinking at
5
the time.
13:49:18 6
Q And did Mr. Williams tell you that he was passing
7
this information on to you because apparently that did not
8
mollify Mr. Killgore?
9
A I'm sorry, it didn't what Mr. Killgore?
13:49:32 10
Q Assuage Mr. Killgore's concerns, or take care of them
11
or alleviate them.
12
A If I'm recalling directly -- correctly, pardon me, it
13
was -- Mr. Williams actually briefed me while I was the
14
director at the Oregon Youth Authority prior to being
15
appointed as Director of the Department of Corrections.
13:49:54 16
Q All right. And was he briefing you in anticipation
17
that you would become Director and succeed him?
18
A No. Just as Director to Director.
13:50:03 19
Q Do you recall why it was that he was involving you or
20
telling you of these concerns of Mr. Killgore?
21
A We would talk regularly about the comings and goings
22
of each others' agencies and often relied on each other as
23
we engaged in running similar operations.
13:50:22 24
Q Did you have more than one conversation with
25
Mr. Williams on this subject before you assumed the
39
1
directorship of the Department of Corrections?
2
A Not that I recall.
13:50:31 3
Q Did you offer any advice or feedback to Mr. Williams,
4
having heard his -- having related this conversation with
5
Mr. Killgore to you about Mr. Killgore's concerns?
6
A I don't remember specifically. It -- I do remember
7
just generally having him explain the situation. I'm sure
8
I asked questions and tried to understand it. But I do
9
remember agreeing with Mr. Williams' logic.
13:50:58 10
Q About whether or not the funds were appropriately
11
spent?
12
A Yes.
13:51:04 13
Q What was his logic on the Buddy Herron funeral?
14
A So his thinking was that, over the years, Oregon
15
Corrections Enterprise would engage in purchases in
16
goodwill or good faith to engage the Department of
17
Corrections in that partnership and that purchasing those
18
things for an officer's family who had just been murdered
19
certainly fell in line with previously-used logic.
13:51:43 20
Q How does goodwill relate to the Constitutional
21
limitation that the funds only be spent for implementing,
22
maintaining, or developing prison work programs?
23
A So in the interest of full disclosure, I am not a
24
lawyer, but I do know that we relied on a DOJ opinion to
25
talk about what would be appropriate in terms of marketing
40
1
and this idea of goodwill between the two agencies.
13:52:08 2
Q Whose opinion was that?
3
A It was from the Department of Justice.
13:52:12 4
Q Do you know who wrote it?
5
A I do not recall.
13:52:14 6
Q When did you read it?
7
A I know that I read it while Director of the
8
Department of Corrections.
13:52:30 9
Q Is this one of the opinions that Mr. Killgore brought
10
to your attention?
11
A It is. And the reason I'm hesitating is because I'm
12
vaguely remembering having to read it in my previous role
13
at the Department of Corrections, as well, but I'm not
14
remembering the specific reason why.
13:52:53 15
Q And what was Mr. Williams' rationale on the Boy Scout
16
contribution that you agreed with?
17
A His thinking was that as Oregon Corrections
18
Enterprise was engaging in the manufacturing of items that
19
the Boy Scouts could potentially purchase that it would be
20
a good marketing event to -- I believe he hosted a table
21
at -- at a fund-raising event, and Mr. Williams' logic was
22
that that could be a good advertising slash marketing
23
business move.
13:53:21 24
Q And you agreed with that.
25
A I did.
41
13:53:23 1
Q What items could the Boy Scouts purchase that would
2
fall within that category?
3
A I don't remember the specifics.
13:53:37 4
Q And what was the size of the contribution to the Boy
5
Scouts?
6
A I do not know.
13:53:41 7
Q Have the Boy Scouts ever made any purchases from OCE?
8
A I do not know.
13:53:50 9
Q But you agree that could be a good business approach?
10
A Yes.
13:54:02 11
Q And so did you learn of any other objection
12
Mr. Killgore made before assuming the directorship in
13
2012?
14
13:54:16 15
Q After assuming the directorship in 2012, did you
16
learn of any objection he was continuing to make?
17
A Yes. He brought concerns forward to me.
13:54:26 18
Q And what concerns did he first bring to you?
19
A I don't re -- I won't be able to recall the list of
20
concerns he brought forward or in what order, but some --
21
another one that I'm remembering is a concern he had
22
around purchasing items during corrections employees week.
13:54:50 23
Q And what was the basis for his objection there?
24
A The sense that I got from Rob is that, while he felt
25
like there was legal support to provide some level of
42
1
goodwill, if you will, to the Department of Corrections,
2
that in his mind it had gotten out of hand. I don't know
3
that he specifically objected to the purchasing of goods
4
during corrections employees week, it was more the
5
magnitude of it all.
13:55:27 6
Q And did he offer up any information that shed light
7
on his opinion as to why it had gotten that way?
8
A I don't believe he did.
13:55:38 9
Q Did you ask any probing questions about that?
10
A I don't remember any specific questions, but I know
11
we had lengthy conversation and -- or even conversations,
12
and it concluded with trying to provide clarity around the
13
issue based on the legal determination. And as I
14
mentioned earlier, the conversations resulted in the two
15
of us signing a memorandum of understanding between the
16
two agencies and communicating that out to DOC and OCE
17
personnel, in hopes to provide that clarity.
13:56:13 18
Q Did Mr. Killgore raise with you his concern about the
19
Buddy Herron funeral expenses?
20
A He did.
13:56:21 21
Q So apparently he was not satisfied by Mr. Williams'
22
explanation.
23
A Correct. As I mentioned earlier, he brought it
24
forward; we had a thoughtful conversation around it; I
25
shared my logic and thinking, he shared his concerns. By
43
1
the end of the conversation, he was in agreement with my
2
logic at that meeting.
13:56:43 3
Q Before sharing your logic about it, had you done any
4
work or research in the area?
5
A No. I remember relying on him to provide me, in that
6
conversation, kind of the background work that he had done
7
on the expenses.
13:57:03 8
Q What background work had he done that he shared with
9
you?
10
A I don't remember the specifics, except that I know it
11
included the DOJ memo.
13:57:15 12
Q One or more than one?
13
A For clarification, one or more of one of what?
13:57:18 14
Q Legal opinions from the Department of Justice.
15
A I believe it included two DOJ opinions.
13:57:25 16
Q And did you read them before sharing your logic?
17
A I did.
13:57:34 18
Q Did he also raise concerns with you about the earlier
19
item that he had raised with Mr. Williams, the Boy Scout
20
donation?
21
A Yes, he did.
13:57:43 22
Q And what did he say to you as to why he thought that
23
was inappropriate?
24
A I believe he wasn't convinced that they would become
25
a customer or client.
44
13:58:01 1
Q Does that seem like a legitimate factor to take into
2
consideration?
3
A Absolutely. My question to him was, "Then why didn't
4
you pose that when Mr. Williams suggested the event?"
13:58:15 5
Q How do you know he didn't?
6
7
8
A Mr. Killgore told me he didn't and Mr. Williams told
9
me he didn't.
13:58:25 10
Q BY MR. BUSSE: Okay. And what was Mr. Killgore's
11
response?
12
A He -- I -- if I remember correctly, it was something
13
he hadn't really thought of at the time, it was something
14
that bothered him later.
13:58:36 15
Q Okay. Does that make sense to you?
16
A Yes.
13:58:43 17
Q Okay. Do you recall any other specific example
18
Mr. Killgore gave to you that was giving him pause for
19
concern about the propriety of what was going on?
20
A I don't recall any more specific examples, but it was
21
enough that it concerned me and I knew that we needed to,
22
one, ensure that there was clarity around this issue, and
23
I had hoped and in fact what did happen is it did provide
24
clarity by creating that memorandum of understanding.
13:59:26 25
Q Now, when he had these conversations with you, did
45
1
you have conversations with anybody else about his
2
concerns?
3
A When Mr. Killgore had these conversations with me,
4
for clarity?
13:59:37 5
Q Yes.
6
A Yes.
13:59:38 7
Q Who did you speak with?
8
A So, I know that I had conversations with Deputy
9
Director Morrow, and many of our conversations, if not
10
all, I think, with Mr. Killgore were with Mr. Morrow. I
11
know I would have consulted the inspector general and the
12
Department of Justice.
13:59:59 13
Q Who in the Department of Justice?
14
A On this particular issue, I know I would have
15
consulted Jeff Vanvalkenburgh. But beyond that, I'm not
16
recalling specific attorneys.
14:00:17 17
Q Did you ask for an opinion from Mr. Vanvalkenburgh?
18
A No, but I know I discussed previous opinions.
14:00:26 19
Q Do you recall when those conversations were with
20
Mr. Vanvalkenburgh?
21
A I do not recall specifically.
14:00:46 22
Q Did Mitch Morrow also tell you that Mr. Killgore had
23
raised concerns with him directly about these
24
expenditures?
25
A Yes.
46
14:00:56 1
Q And do you recall what examples Mr. Morrow gave to
2
you about the concerns Mr. Killgore was raising with him
3
directly?
4
A I do not recall the specifics.
14:01:09 5
Q Did you have one or more than one conversation with
6
Mr. Morrow about that?
7
A Multiple.
14:01:17 8
Q And did those conversations extend through 2012?
9
A Yes.
14:01:25 10
Q Did Mr. Morrow and Mr. Williams communicate to you
11
that Mr. Killgore was expressing concern that OCE was
12
being used by DOC as a slush fund?
13
A Yes.
14:01:47 14
Q Did you meet with Mr. Killgore and Mr. Morrow on or
15
about February 7th at which Mr. Killgore raised those
16
issues with you?
17
A I do not remember the exact date of the meeting, but
18
I know that there was a meeting and we discussed those
19
issues, and the slush fund issue was tied directly into
20
that -- those goodwill and marketing concerns that
21
Mr. Killgore had brought forward to me, as well.
14:02:16 22
Q Do you deny that the DOC had been using OCE as a
23
slush fund?
24
A Yes. I don't see that the agency was utilizing OCE
25
as a slush fund.
47
14:02:32 1
Q And do you agree that it would be inappropriate for
2
it to do so?
3
4
question, vague, calls for speculation.
14:02:38 5
Q BY MR. BUSSE: You can answer.
6
A Yes.
7
MR. LIPPOLD: Can we take a break? We've
8
been at it for about an hour.
9
(A recess was taken.)
14:07:12 10
Q BY MR. BUSSE: At the meeting that you mentioned with
11
the three of you, Mr. Morrow, Mr. Killgore, and yourself,
12
did Mr. Killgore refer to the fact that he wanted to have
13
an independent review of OCE expenditures?
14
A I do not recall that request or recommendation.
14:07:30 15
Q Did you say that you didn't want to have an
16
independent review?
17
A I don't recall denying that request.
14:07:36 18
Q At that meeting, did he mention the PSU contract?
19
A I don't know specifically if the contract was
20
mentioned at that meeting.
14:07:46 21
Q Do you recall him saying that he wanted the PSU
22
contract to include a review of the OCE expenditures?
23
A I don't recall specifically. It wouldn't surprise
24
me; as you're doing a business case plan and review of an
25
organization like OCE, I would suspect that it would
48
1
include a review of the finances.
14:08:08 2
Q And did you say you opposed that?
3
A Again, specifically, I don't remember him bringing it
4
forward, but it wouldn't be in my nature to oppose that.
14:08:17 5
Q And so do you deny having opposed it at that meeting?
6
A Yes.
14:08:30 7
Q Did you say at that meeting you did not want, quote,
8
any type of external review?
9
A No.
14:08:37 10
Q Did you say at that meeting you would give up your
11
authority to do a direct hire except, quote, over your
12
cold dead hand, end quote?
13
A I do not recall saying anything like that.
14:08:54 14
Q Do you deny having done so?
15
A I don't recall having done so.
14:08:54 16
Q Can you deny it?
17
A It just doesn't sound like anything I would say, but
18
I do not recall having said that.
14:09:01 19
Q Did the subject of Mr. Morrow's son being hired by
20
the department come up?
21
A Again, for clarification, in the meeting with --
14:09:11 22
Q With the three of you.
23
A -- Mr. Killgore?
14:09:14 24
Q M-hm.
25
49
14:09:17 1
Q Did you say during that meeting, "It's perfectly okay
2
to hire relatives, so long as there's no, quote, wink
3
wink, end quote, involved"?
4
A I don't recall saying that, either.
14:09:27 5
Q Do you know whether Mr. Morrow involved himself in
6
the issues pertaining to his son during his son's
7
employment with the department?
8
A Yes.
14:09:37 9
Q What issues are you aware of that Mr. Morrow involved
10
himself with?
11
A I know that Mr. Morrow called Nick Armenakis to
12
inquire about why they were denying his son moving
13
expenses.
14:09:51 14
Q To ask about it?
15
A Yes.
14:09:53 16
Q Or to chastise Mr. Armenakis for the amount he was
17
paying his son?
18
A To ask him --
19
MR. LIPPOLD: Objection -- objection,
20
argumentative. Go ahead.
21
A To ask him about it.
14:10:07 22
Q BY MR. BUSSE: Do you have any information that
23
Mr. Morrow did anything but that in that conversation?
24
A No.
25
MR. LIPPOLD: Objection, vague.
50
14:10:25 1
Q BY MR. BUSSE: At the meeting with the three of you
2
in early February, did you tell Mr. Killgore to set up a
3
meeting with Phil Keisling without Mr. Killgore present?
4
A I do not recall.
14:10:39 5
Q Was there any reason that you can think of here today
6
why you wanted to exclude Mr. Killgore from further
7
discussions with PSU about that contract?
8
A I --
9
10
11
A I do not recall.
14:10:57 12
Q BY MR. BUSSE: At that meeting, did you say that you
13
wanted to handle issues that Mr. Killgore was raising
14
through an MOU?
15
A I don't recall that it specifically came out of that
16
particular meeting, but I do know that the idea of an MOU
17
came out of discussions with Mr. Killgore.
14:11:17 18
Q That was your idea; right?
19
A Yes, I believe it was.
14:11:21 20
Q Okay. And you were aware that Neil Bryant was
21
advising Mr. Killgore on the language of the MOU that was
22
being developed afterwards; correct?
23
A I don't know that I knew Mr. Bryant was -- I don't
24
recall that Mr. Bryant was working on that particular
25
issue. I knew that he was consulting on the CAFR issue.
51
14:11:43 1
Q And you also knew that he was working on the Ecotex
2
matter, as well; correct?
3
A Yes, that is correct.
14:11:57 4
Q And did you, when you found out he was working on the
5
CAFR issue, tell Mr. Killgore that he shouldn't be doing
6
that?
7
A Sorry, for clarification, that Mr. Bryant shouldn't
8
be consulting on the CAFR?
14:12:09 9
Q Right.
10
A No, I did not.
14:12:11 11
Q And did you tell Mr. Killgore that Mr. Bryant
12
shouldn't be consulting on the Ecotex matter?
13
A No, I did not, not until I learned that Neil Bryant
14
was hired without the knowledge of the Department of
15
Justice. As soon as I found out that he was on contract
16
without their knowledge and outside of the statutory
17
ability to do so, then I asked Mr. Killgore to end the
18
relationship with Mr. Bryant.
14:12:37 19
Q And did Mr. Killgore comply with that request?
20
A Yes.
14:12:50 21
Q Immediately.
22
A Yes.
14:12:50 23
Q And do you know whether it was Mr. Williams who had
24
approved the hiring of Mr. Bryant?
25
A I do not recall the former director approving that.
52
14:12:58 1
Q Do you know whether or not he did?
2
A No.
14:13:11 3
Q Did you and Mr. Morrow and Mr. Killgore meet again
4
later in February on these same issues?
5
A I know we had multiple meetings throughout the year,
6
but the specific dates, sir, I don't remember.
14:13:26 7
Q At a February 22nd meeting, did you tell Mr. Killgore
8
that you did not want to -- want the Department of Justice
9
to review this matter?
10
A I do --
11
12
13
A For clarification, which matter?
14:13:47 14
Q BY MR. BUSSE: The expenditures of OCE funds.
15
A Again, I don't recall Mr. Killgore asking that the
16
Department of Justice request -- or, excuse me, ask me if
17
the Department of Justice should review his expenditures.
14:14:03 18
Q Did you tell Mr. Killgore, whether or not he
19
initially suggested it, that you did not want a DOJ review
20
of OCE expenditures?
21
A No, I do not recall denying that request.
14:14:14 22
Q No, I'm not asking -- This is independent of any
23
request, because you don't recall him making one.
24
A Okay.
14:14:21 25
Q I'm asking whether or not you told him, "I don't want
53
1
a DOJ review of OCE expenditures."
2
A No, I do not recall saying that.
14:14:32 3
Q Did you and Mr. Morrow meet with Phil Keisling on or
4
about March 5th without Mr. Killgore present?
5
A Again, I do not recall the date, but I'm vaguely
6
remembering having a meeting with Mr. Morrow,
7
Mr. Killgore, and Phil in Dr. -- Easling? -- I forget his
8
last name.
14:15:02 9
Q Did you exclude Mr. Killgore from any meeting with
10
PSU officials for any particular reason?
11
A Not that I remember.
14:15:11 12
Q The contract in question was supposed to be a
13
contract between PSU and OCE; correct?
14
A Correct.
14:15:16 15
Q And by law, OCE is a semi-independent agency;
16
correct?
17
A Correct.
14:15:21 18
Q What does "semi-independent" mean to you?
19
A It is a legal status designated to very few agencies,
20
but it allows for revenue-generating ability that General
21
Fund agencies would not be able to engage in; therefore,
22
its semi-independent status primarily is for that reason
23
with Oregon Corrections Enterprise.
14:15:55 24
Q Do you believe that the Department of Corrections had
25
the authority to direct the expenditures of OCE?
54
1
A I think -- Actually, I'm going to ask for
2
clarification. Are you talking about specific
3
expenditures?
14:16:13 4
Q Tell 'em how to spend their money.
5
A Um, I think that the actual expenditure of funds is
6
the responsibility of the administrator of the Oregon
7
Corrections Enterprise. I see it as my responsibility to
8
ensure that those monies are being spent wisely and, of
9
course, that they remain self-funded.
14:16:37 10
Q So you believe that the DOC director does not have
11
the authority to tell the director of OCE how to spend the
12
OCE funds; correct?
13
A No, I think the administrator of OCE is responsible
14
for the actual expending of funds. Where the
15
administrator takes the agency or what sort of business
16
case plan the administrator puts together, it's my
17
responsibility as the director of the Department of
18
Corrections to oversee that.
14:17:08 19
Q I don't think that answered my question. The
20
director of the Department of Corrections, in your view,
21
does that person have the authority to tell the director
22
of OCE how to spend OCE funds?
23
A I think it's the responsibility of the director of
24
the Department of Corrections to ensure that the way
25
they're spending those funds is in line with the vision
55
1
and where I want that agency to go.
14:17:35 2
Q That's not my question.
3
A Maybe you could give me an example, maybe that would
4
be helpful.
14:17:40 5
Q Can the director of the Department of Corrections
6
tell the director of OCE, "I want you to spend 5,000 for
7
this"?
8
9
question, asked and answered. Go ahead.
10
A So again, my answer would remain the same.
14:17:57 11
Q BY MR. BUSSE: No. That's a different question, it's
12
can the -- in your view, sitting in your position today,
13
can you pick up the phone and tell the director of OCE to
14
make a particular expenditure? Do you have that authority
15
or not, in your view? Very simple question.
16
A I think in that particular example that I could pick
17
up the phone and call the administrator of OCE and as an
18
executive member in the agency it would be a conversation,
19
it wouldn't be a dictate like you're presenting it. It
20
would be -- it would be a conversation, there would be
21
push and pull as -- as an executive team member of the
22
agency who reports to me and serves at my pleasure.
14:18:44 23
Q I'm talking about authority, not how it works in
24
practice. Does the director of the Department of
25
Corrections have the authority, in your view, to tell the
56
1
director of OCE what expenditure to make and how much?
2
A I think that I can make that recommendation and the
3
administrator can make that determination him or herself,
4
knowing that they serve at my pleasure.
14:19:11 5
Q So that you don't have the authority to actually
6
dictate the expenditure, just to recommend?
7
A Agreed.
14:19:17 8
Q All right. So do you believe it would be
9
inappropriate for an expenditure to be directed of OCE by
10
the director of Corrections?
11
A I don't know that it would necessarily be
12
inappropriate. It's not necessarily my style of
13
management. My style of management would be to engage in
14
a conversation.
14:19:39 15
Q Not knowing whether or not it would be appropriate
16
doesn't really answer whether or not -- whether or not it
17
would be within one's authority. Do you believe that it
18
would be outside permissible authority of the director of
19
the Department of Corrections to direct the expenditure of
20
funds in the way that I've described?
21
A Again, I don't think it's as clear as you're
22
describing it. I think that I don't have the expenditure
23
authority at OCE, so I could make the recommendation to
24
the administrator, who has the legal right to expend.
14:20:19 25
Q And so, given your understanding, do you believe that
57
1
you would be acting inappropriately if you did make such a
2
directive --
3
A Again, I don't know that it would be inappropriate to
4
provide that specific of a direction, but I want to be
5
very clear that I understand my responsibility and roles,
6
which is I don't have expenditure authority at OCE.
14:20:43 7
Q When you say you don't know whether or not it would
8
be inappropriate, what do you mean by that?
9
A Um, I don't see that it would be inappropriate.
14:20:53 10
Q So it would be okay to do?
11
A Yes.
14:20:55 12
Q Thank you.
13
In March of 2012, did you issue a new
14
organization chart changing the OCE from having a dotted
15
line to a solid line in terms of DOC's authority over OCE?
16
A I did.
14:21:14 17
Q And why did you do that?
18
A Part of the vision that we had moving forward was
19
creating what we refer to as a four-legged stool and
20
figuring out how to take OCE, which had become very
21
disconnected from the agency, and making it more a part of
22
the policy group in terms of planning and visioning moving
23
forward. So I really wanted people to see OCE not as this
24
entity that was spinning out here by itself, but one that
25
was really acting in a symbiotic fashion with the other
58
1
three major divisions.
14:21:52 2
Q And did anyone consult with anyone as to whether that
3
change would be legal, given the Constitutional setup?
4
A No, I don't believe I requested a legal analysis on
5
the organizational chart.
14:22:08 6
Q So Jeff Vanvalkenburgh was not consulted against
7
that -- consulted about that?
8
14:22:15 9
Q And you know of no recommendation he made against it.
10
A I do not.
14:22:23 11
Q In any event, there was no legal opinion that was
12
received by you on that subject.
13
14:22:32 14
Q So you acted alone in doing that.
15
A I don't know that I would have acted alone. The
16
reorganization was one that we talked about with policy
17
group in formulating and kind of creating it together.
14:22:46 18
Q By "alone," did you consult with anybody outside the
19
Department of Corrections before doing that?
20
A Before the reorganization?
14:22:55 21
Q Yeah, before you changed that to a solid line.
22
A Not that I recall. Certainly I don't recall ever
23
talking to anyone about moving it from a solid line to a
24
dotted line.
14:23:05 25
Q Mr. Killgore proposed a career readiness center at
59
1
Coffee Creek?
2
A He did.
14:23:11 3
Q And did you support that?
4
A I did.
14:23:18 5
Q And in July, did you and the DOC policy group approve
6
an AFL-CIO contract for that program?
7
A We did.
14:23:21 8
Q And why did you think that was a good idea?
9
A One of the things that we know benefits the
10
reformation of inmates in successful transition into the
11
community is real job training, and I believe that the
12
career readiness center would have provided that.
14:23:35 13
Q And did Mr. Killgore -- isn't it true that he warned
14
that that could cause a labor issue with the AOCE?
15
A No, quite the opposite. I asked Mr. Killgore if he
16
had worked with the unions to ensure that they were in
17
line with this idea, and he said he had and that everyone
18
was on board. The reason I asked the question is that I
19
had great concerns that we were bringing another union
20
into another union's work environment.
14:24:06 21
Q Okay, so did you talk with anybody about that before
22
proceeding besides Mr. Killgore?
23
A No. I believed him.
14:24:15 24
Q Okay. And that was the subject of the ULP filed by
25
AOCE later that summer?
60
1
A Yes.
14:24:22 2
Q That was eventually dropped.
3
A Yes.
14:24:27 4
Q There had been other ULPs filed against the DOC in
5
your history; correct?
6
A Yes.
14:24:37 7
Q Has anybody been fired for having a ULP filed against
8
them?
9
A Not that I'm aware of.
14:24:44 10
Q And at the time that you took over as Director, did
11
you review the personnel files of your direct reports?
12
A I did not.
14:24:52 13
Q Do you know how Mr. Killgore had been viewed in terms
14
of his labor relations before you came on board?
15
A No.
14:25:06 16
Q You never asked Mr. Killgore about that?
17
A Before coming on board, I did not, no.
14:25:08 18
Q Or Mr. Morrow?
19
A Before becoming Director of the Department of
20
Corrections, I did not.
14:25:13 21
Q Or Mr. Williams?
22
A No.
14:25:14 23
Q Afterwards, did you learn he had a good record with
24
labor relations?
25
61
1
question, vague.
14:25:21 2
Q BY MR. BUSSE: You can answer.
3
A I recall generally having conversations with Rob
4
about his interactions with the union. I'm not
5
remembering specifics. I know there were concerns that
6
the union had brought forward early on, but those are
7
common; they seemed to be resolved in the meetings he was
8
having with AOCE at the time.
14:25:41 9
Q He was working on it?
10
A That's my recollection.
14:25:53 11
Q Okay. And had those concerns been resolved by the
12
fall?
13
A I don't recall the specific timeline.
14:26:00 14
Q Is it true Mark Warne resigned from the advisory
15
council when the contract with the AFL-CIO was signed?
16
A I do not -- I do not know.
14:26:21 17
Q Was Mr. Killgore involved in the resolution of the
18
ULP?
19
A I'm sorry, I don't recall the timeline or when the
20
ULP was resolved.
14:26:35 21
Q Okay. Do you know if his people were working on it?
22
A Yes, that's my understanding.
14:26:42 23
Q And who on his staff were working to get it resolved?
24
A I do not recall.
14:26:45 25
Q In July of 2012 during the annual audit commissioned
62
1
by the Secretary of State's office, were you advised that
2
for that year's audit Mr. Killgore had disclosed any
3
illegal or unethical activities to the auditor?
4
A I was aware of that.
14:27:01 5
Q And that Mr. Killgore had received an opinion from
6
Neil Bryant to report the support of the Herron funeral?
7
A I was aware of that.
14:27:09 8
Q And did Mr. Killgore in August say that the State
9
CAFR had the same reporting requirement?
10
A Yes.
14:27:17 11
Q And on August 22nd, is it true that in a meeting with
12
you and Mr. Morrow and Mr. Killgore you said you didn't
13
want to report that incident?
14
A For clarification, it was not that I did not want to
15
report it. We had investigated what the situation was
16
about and what typically is reported in the CAFR report,
17
and I informed Mr. Killgore that something of this nature
18
is not something that's typically reported in a CAFR
19
report.
14:27:45 20
Q What investigation did you undertake before imparting
21
that advice?
22
A I spoke with both our assistant director responsible
23
for general services, who also is responsible for
24
reporting things in the CAFR report, as well as Neil
25
Bryant himself. And once both Neil Bryant and I had
63
1
gathered all the facts as we knew them, we were both in
2
agreement that it did not need to go into the CAFR report.
14:28:10 3
Q Who was the assistant director that you spoke with?
4
A Tami Dohrman.
14:28:16 5
Q What did you tell her and what did she say to you?
6
A We just re -- explained the response -- Or, excuse
7
me, for clarification, Deputy Director Morrow spoke
8
directly with Ms. Dohrman --
14:28:27 9
Q Ah.
10
A -- and he explained to her the concerns that were
11
being brought forward, the amount that was spent, and the
12
determination that she made was that it was such a small
13
amount that is not something that would -- typically would
14
be reported in a CAFR report.
14:28:46 15
Q What did she say was the amount that above which you
16
would report it?
17
A I don't recall, but I remember there being a
18
substantial gap between the two amounts.
14:28:57 19
Q Are you an expert in what's to be reported in CAFR
20
and what's not to be?
21
A I am not.
14:29:07 22
Q And did you rely upon Mr. Morrow to impart all of the
23
information that would be necessary for Tami to provide
24
confident advice on the matter?
25
A Correct.
64
14:29:20 1
Q Do you know whether or not he told her about the
2
Constitutional limitation that Mr. Killgore was raising on
3
the issue?
4
A I don't know specifically what they talked about.
14:29:34 5
Q This concern was in the context of that which
6
Mr. Killgore was raising, however; right?
7
A Correct. So I can assume it would be part of the
8
conversation, but I don't know for sure, I wasn't privy to
9
the conversation.
14:29:46 10
Q You would expect that he would raise that with her;
11
correct?
12
A Or -- I would either expect that Mr. Morrow would
13
raise it or, even more so, expect that Ms. Dohrman would
14
be familiar with that statute.
14:29:59 15
Q Do you know if she is?
16
A I do not know.
14:30:02 17
Q Did you ask Mr. Morrow whether or not they discussed
18
it?
19
14:30:06 20
Q Or her knowledge of it?
21
14:30:13 22
Q And then you say that you spoke with Neil Bryant. At
23
the meeting that you had with Mr. Killgore, did you say
24
that you didn't want to report -- I'm sorry.
25
Did you say in that meeting that Mr. Killgore
65
1
had supported activities like that before?
2
A I don't recall specifically what I said, but I
3
remember thinking that I wasn't understanding the logic,
4
and so maybe that's the -- the quote that you have there.
5
I remember thinking that if the -- if the Buddy Herron
6
funeral expenses needed to go in the CAFR report, then all
7
these other concerns that Mr. Killgore brought forward
8
should go into the CAFR report, and so that's what made me
9
stop, pause, and ask questions and investigate a little
10
further, because it just seemed flawed on its face that we
11
were just pulling one thing out for the CAFR report.
14:31:26 12
Q Did you tell Mr. Morrow to ask Tami whether or not,
13
indeed and in fact, these other things should be reported
14
in the CAFR, given the fact that if you amalgamate their
15
value it's a much larger number?
16
A I don't remember specifically.
14:31:44 17
Q Do you recall whether or not the corrections week
18
activities came up in that conversation with Mr. Killgore?
19
A I don't recall.
14:31:56 20
Q How about the laundry contract?
21
A I don't recall specifics.
14:31:57 22
Q How about hiring practices?
23
A I don't recall if that came up in that -- during that
24
meeting.
14:32:12 25
Q Did Mr. Killgore ever claim that he had only made
66
1
certain expenditures because he was under duress from
2
Mr. Morrow?
3
A Again, I don't remember when I learned of that
4
specific allegation. I know that's something that he
5
brought forward in the criminal investigation, but I don't
6
know if that was something I knew prior to that time.
14:32:37 7
Q Did you ever talk to Mr. Morrow about that?
8
A Yes.
14:32:42 9
Q When did you talk to Mr. Morrow about that?
10
A I don't recall.
14:32:45 11
Q What did you ask him?
12
A I don't recall specifically what I asked him. I know
13
that we've had conversations around kind of learning the
14
history of who was hired, who was recommended. And much
15
of it I had remembered, having been at the Department of
16
Corrections before, but some of it was new to me, and so
17
it was more of an education around -- around those --
18
those hires.
14:33:14 19
Q And did Mr. Morrow -- Well, did you ask him
20
straight-out, "Did you apply any duress on any of these
21
hires?"
22
A I didn't have to ask him straight-out; he was
23
forthcoming to me that he did not.
14:33:27 24
Q Oh, okay. So he preempted the question by saying, "I
25
never did anything like that."
67
1
A Correct.
14:33:37 2
Q Okay. At that same meeting with Mr. Killgore at
3
which these issues were discussed, did Mr. Killgore say he
4
refused to submit the State CAFR without the disclosure of
5
the Herron funeral unless Neil Bryant reversed his
6
opinion?
7
A I don't recall him making that statement, but that
8
would seem within reason --
14:34:01 9
Q Okay.
10
A -- since he had seen legal -- received legal advice.
14:34:06 11
Q Did you say that you would talk to Mr. Bryant to get
12
him to do that?
13
A I said I would engage in a conversation with
14
Mr. Bryant, but not necessarily to -- with the
15
preconceived notion that I would be able to sway him to
16
change his decision.
14:34:18 17
Q Isn't that -- wasn't that the intent of your contact
18
with Mr. Bryant?
19
20
question, argumentative. Go ahead.
21
A I'm happy to discuss my intent. It wasn't that. It
22
really was to engage in a conversation and share my
23
thinking around the need to put it in the CAFR. And at
24
the conclusion of the conversation, Neil Bryant shared
25
with me that he had no experience or any background with
68
1
the CAFR report. And so once I provided the information
2
that we had received from Ms. Dohrman, he was very
3
comfortable -- it was my opinion that he was very
4
comfortable stating that it no longer needed to be in the
5
CAFR report.
14:34:59 6
Q BY MR. BUSSE: What did you share with him about your
7
view of the need to put it in the CAFR?
8
A Some of the logic that I shared with you just minutes
9
ago around how it just didn't seem right that if there was
10
one portion that needed to go in the CAFR report then why
11
not everything else. And so I investigated further and
12
learned that it's really a substantial amount of money
13
lost before you put anything in the CAFR report. And once
14
he had that background and information, he changed his
15
opinion.
14:35:33 16
Q What was substantial -- what did you learn about the
17
substantial amount of money?
18
A Again, as I said earlier, I don't recall the amount.
19
I'm sure I had it, sir, at the time of my conversation
20
with Neil Bryant, but I'm not recalling it today.
14:35:48 21
Q Do you have any notes about that?
22
A No.
14:35:50 23
Q Did you make any notes at the time?
24
A Not that I remember.
14:35:54 25
Q Did he ask, "What do you mean 'substantial'? Hundred
69
1
bucks? Thousand bucks?"
2
A Not that I recall. But as I just said, I'm sure I
3
had the amount in my memory at the time of the
4
conversation with Neil Bryant, I just don't have it now.
14:36:07 5
Q Because Tami gave you that amount?
6
A M-hm.
14:36:09 7
Q That's a "yes"?
8
A Yes.
14:36:13 9
Q Do you recall whether it was, like, a million dollars
10
or six figures or whether there was a threshold there in
11
the --
12
A I do not recall.
14:36:24 13
Q Okay. Do you recall anything else that you told Neil
14
Bryant to inform him of your view?
15
A No, nothing that I can remember.
14:36:39 16
Q Did you say that no one personally gained from it?
17
A I do not recall if I said that specific thing.
14:36:46 18
Q Did anybody tell you that a CAFR is only to include
19
illegal or unethical expenditures if somebody personally
20
gained from it?
21
14:37:05 22
Q After the meeting with Mr. Killgore, did you and
23
Mr. Morrow get together and discuss that it would be a
24
good idea for Mr. Killgore to list all of the activities
25
that gave him any concern?
70
1
A I don't know if that idea was borne out of a
2
conversation I had with Deputy Director Morrow; it could
3
have been. I do know that I sent an e-mail to
4
Mr. Killgore requesting that he put together his -- a list
5
of his concerns.
14:37:35 6
Q And did you learn that he completed such a list and
7
turned it over to a higher authority?
8
A Not until a later point, but yes, I did learn that.
14:37:46 9
Q And how did you learn of it?
10
A I received a phone call from my executive assistant
11
alerting me that an investigation had been started, that
12
there were investigators wanting to speak with me; I was
13
out of the building at the time, and that was
14
approximately mid-October.
15
It wasn't for a couple of weeks, I believe, it
16
wasn't until I was being interviewed by investigators
17
where, at the conclusion of the interview, I realized it
18
was Mr. Killgore that brought the allegations forward.
14:38:31 19
Q And the investigators told you that?
20
A I believe they did, yes.
14:38:41 21
Q Before that, had you ever been the target of a
22
criminal investigation before?
23
A I know I have been the subject of an investigation
24
before, but I don't believe there were any criminal
25
elements.
71
14:38:58 1
Q How about since becoming Director? Any civil
2
investigation by Department of Justice of you other than
3
this?
4
A None that I am aware of.
14:39:06 5
Q And the investigation that you're referring to, what
6
was the nature of that investigation?
7
A I'm sorry, the --
14:39:14 8
Q You said that there had been an investigation of
9
you earlier in your career at some point in time of some
10
nature. I'm wanting information about that, to the extent
11
you have it.
12
A When I was the director of the Oregon Youth
13
Authority, a manager brought forward an investigation
14
concerned that my open-door policy was impacting her
15
ability to supervise her employees.
14:39:41 16
Q And who was doing the investigation?
17
A The chief of the professional standards office.
14:39:53 18
Q And the chief of what professional standards?
19
A At the Oregon Youth Authority.
14:40:02 20
Q So it was an internal review?
21
A Correct.
14:40:04 22
Q Did it go to any outside legal --
23
A It did not.
14:40:07 24
Q -- channel?
25
And when you learned of the complaint, did it
72
1
upset you?
2
A Yes, certainly. You know, when you're in these
3
positions, you never want to do anything that would harm
4
the agency in any way. But I know that in that role,
5
having been the inspector general before, that those
6
individuals need to investigate anyone in that agency up
7
to and including the director.
14:40:59 8
Q And in this same -- well, in this same newspaper
9
report in the Statesman Journal, it indicated that you met
10
with the DOJ general counsel's office on October 16 to
11
talk about Killgore's personnel issues. Is that -- was
12
that accurately reported?
13
A I know that I met with the Department of Justice
14
regarding his personnel issues, but I do not recall the
15
exact date.
14:41:32 16
Q Do you have any basis to dispute the October 16th
17
date?
18
A I do not.
14:41:36 19
Q Or that it was eight days after the investigation
20
began?
21
A Again, I don't recall specifically, but I have no
22
reason to dispute the facts here.
14:41:43 23
Q Or five days after the Department of Justice came to
24
the Corrections executive building to seize computers?
25
A Again, I don't recall the specific date, but as you
73
1
asked, I have no reason to dispute these dates.
14:42:17 2
Q At some point, did you cancel the OCE advisory
3
council meeting?
4
14:42:22 5
Q At some point, did you rescind the PSU survey?
6
A I --
14:42:28 7
Q Or ask Mr. Killgore to do so?
8
A Yes, I did.
14:42:31 9
Q And why?
10
A The specific reason, I would say, was twofold. One,
11
I didn't feel like the survey was in line with the
12
direction that Mr. Killgore and I had talked about again
13
and again, which is utilizing the steering committee to
14
gather information and get PSU on -- back on the right
15
track. And then, two, I was concerned about the list of
16
people that they were proposing, because it didn't seem
17
like a holistic list.
14:43:03 18
Q So some other survey of some sort might be okay, but
19
not this one?
20
A Maybe. And Mr. Killgore and I talked about that,
21
if -- you know, if we needed to do a survey, we certainly
22
needed to survey more individuals than were on that list,
23
but I really was trying to drive him back to using that
24
steering committee as the body to help guide the work and
25
get PSU back on track.
74
14:43:28 1
Q Did you schedule a tour of the new career readiness
2
center at CCCF with Cam Preus without Mr. Killgore?
3
A I did schedule a tour. I don't remember the date.
4
And it certainly wasn't intended to exclude Mr. Killgore.
14:43:50 5
Q You did give him advanced notice of the tour?
6
A Not that I recall, but typically what happens in
7
those situations is our government efficiencies and
8
communications office staffs those events and those tours,
9
and it would be really out of practice for them not to
10
engage the administrator in that scheduling.
14:44:11 11
Q And the tour that we're talking about would have
12
taken place in January of 2013; correct?
13
A I don't recall the exact date, but that seems like a
14
reasonable time frame.
14:44:21 15
Q Anyway, it was after the investigation by the
16
Department of Justice; correct?
17
A Again, I don't recall the date.
14:45:01 18
Q Was there a meeting that you had with Phil Keisling
19
in which you had attempted to persuade him not to include
20
certain recommendations in his report?
21
A I actually recall more than one conversation. I know
22
there was at least one meeting and one phone call, and
23
there may have been more, I would have to look at my
24
calendar. And it wasn't necessarily to ask him to not
25
include recommendations, it really was a request to get
75
1
him to stay within the scope that we had agreed to when I
2
became the director.
14:45:55 3
Q And was this an agreement that everybody signed off
4
on?
5
A It was.
14:46:02 6
Q And what was Mr. Keisling's response to that?
7
A Initially, in the meeting when we talked about scope
8
and my need and desire to really utilize the PSU contract
9
to help Mr. Killgore provide that business case plan that
10
I was asking for, when we met, they understood our
11
reasoning, they were actually excited about it, they were
12
excited about this idea to expand and have OCE become less
13
disconnected and more in that symbiotic relationship, and
14
so they agreed to a revise of the draft.
15
Later, Mr. Keisling came back and said he
16
would not agree to that revised scope of work.
14:46:47 17
Q Did he say why?
18
A He u- -- he said that he had some academic reasons
19
for not holding -- not -- not staying within the scope. I
20
didn't understand his reasons, I'll be honest with you.
14:47:06 21
Q Did he indicate that it would not be within his
22
ethical framework to accede to your request?
23
A I don't recall him using the word "ethical," um --
24
yeah, period.
14:47:22 25
Q So "academic" was the language he used to justify it.
76
1
A Yes.
14:47:36 2
Q And you authorized him to proceed as he saw fit with
3
his report.
4
A Yes.
14:47:46 5
Q Now, you terminated Mr. Killgore on March 13th;
6
correct?
7
A I don't remember the specific date, but I know it was
8
mid-March.
14:48:02 9
Q What happened between the time that you told
10
investigators on October 28th that you had no plans to
11
terminate Mr. Killgore and March 13th when you did?
12
A So in the conversation with the investigators, they
13
were asking right now if I had plans to terminate
14
Mr. Killgore, and I said no; I had mentioned that I had
15
performance issues, but I certainly wasn't at that point
16
with Mr. Killgore.
17
It really was the continued interactions, both
18
at policy group and with Mr. Killgore from October to
19
March, up to and including that final e-mail he sent to
20
Sarah Miller, that led me to believe that he was not an
21
individual that was willing to be the administrator and
22
implement the vision that I had hoped for.
14:48:47 23
Q And what interactions with policy group happened in
24
that time period? Let's take it one at a time. In
25
October, do you recall any?
77
1
A You know, again, I'm not going to be great at
2
recalling the timelines, but what I can remember -- and
3
I'm not going to remember all of the conversations, but
4
some of the things I do remember is really requesting him
5
to rely on the steering committee to help drive the work
6
of PSU and then learning at a policy group meeting that he
7
had not scheduled those weekly meetings, that he had not
8
convened the steering group or utilized them in any way.
9
And of course the -- one of the larger ones
10
was the conclusion of the PSU report and Rob supporting
11
the notion that the two entities be separated in some
12
fashion.
14:49:41 13
Q I'm just sticking with the interactions with the
14
policy group. Do you recall anything happening from
15
October through the end of 2012 that would fall within the
16
category of interactions with policy group besides what
17
you've just testified to?
18
A I know that there were conversations around other
19
issues, like managing the ULP, that came up with policy
20
group and -- other specifics, I'm just not recalling.
14:50:22 21
Q What came up at the policy group about his management
22
of the ULP, to your recollection, during that time frame?
23
A I remember not feeling as if I was being informed and
24
kept up to speed on where the ULP was and what was -- what
25
was the resolve around that issue; the resolve around a
78
1
boiler issue at the Oregon State Penitentiary and how we
2
were managing through that issue with OCE.
3
So it was more a frustration in policy group
4
that, rather than being informed and being briefed on the
5
operations at OCE, I was having to kind of pull it out of
6
him at policy group meetings.
14:51:07 7
Q Did you get the answers after pulling them out of
8
him?
9
A Again, I don't remember specifics. I know I did
10
receive some answers when at policy group, yes. But the
11
York group was never convened.
14:51:23 12
Q Do you recall, when you say not feeling as if you
13
were kept up to speed on the ULP, is there any document
14
that you know of that exists in which you've memorialized
15
that?
16
A I don't recall a document, but I know that we had
17
conversations, no doubt.
14:51:47 18
Q Well, tell me about that. Do you recall speaking
19
with him during that October through December period in
20
which "I'm not feeling that I'm being kept up to speed on
21
the resolution of the ULP and I need you to know about my
22
feelings," or anything like that?
23
A Yes, we did have those conversations, and so then I
24
would get updates then, and then I wouldn't get updates
25
again until I pressed for more information.
79
14:52:12 1
Q Okay. So he would respond when you came to him and
2
initiated that conversation?
3
A M-hm.
14:52:19 4
Q (Indicated.)
5
A Correct.
14:52:20 6
Q Thank you. All right.
7
And that ULP was eventually resolved.
8
A It was.
14:52:36 9
Q Now, how about interactions with policy group in the
10
first 73 days of 2013, in that January through March 13th
11
period? Was there anything about those interactions that
12
gave you pause?
13
A I don't remember specifics. I remember talking to
14
Mr. Killgore about wanting him to become a more active
15
participant in policy group and really using the model
16
that we've established, which is really one of
17
empowerment, we really empower that policy group to help
18
manage the agency, but they do it together, and so really
19
encouraging him to develop relationships with the other
20
assistant directors and engage in the overall business,
21
not just in the business of OCE, which is something I
22
expect of all of my direct reports.
14:53:32 23
Q Was there any incident or issue that you can recall
24
that surfaced during that 73-day period?
25
A So for clarification, can you remind me of the
80
1
73-three day period?
14:53:41 2
Q January, February, to March 13th.
3
A Not specifically, but I have a clear recollection
4
that the frustration I was having was continuing to grow
5
during that period, and it was based on issues of the day.
14:54:00 6
Q Can you be a little more specific about what issues
7
were frustrating you?
8
A Beyond the ones that I've mentioned?
14:54:09 9
Q Yes, please.
10
A For me, it was just an ongoing conversation around
11
being kept informed on the operations of OCE, not seeing
12
an advancement on the vision, not seeing a business case
13
plan come forward that would assist us in implementing
14
that vision. But other specifics, I do not recall at this
15
time.
14:54:31 16
Q Do you know of any e-mail or other note that contains
17
an expression of that frustration about not seeing an
18
advance on business plan or not seeing advance on the
19
vision?
20
A Not that I recall, but it doesn't mean that there
21
isn't one there.
14:55:42 22
Q Okay, let's go through some documents.
23
A Are you finished with this one?
14:55:50 24
Q Oh, we'll just leave that.
25
A Okay.
81
1
MR. LIPPOLD: Are you doing okay? Do you
2
need a break?
3
THE WITNESS: I'm doing okay.
14:56:00 4
Q BY MR. BUSSE: We lawyers do silly things. One of
5
the silly things we do is have witnesses authenticate
6
documents by identifying them, because we can't do that
7
when they're the documents of a party other than our own.
8
So some of these documents I'm not going to
9
have detailed questions for you about, but, to the extent
10
that I will, I'll call your attention to a particular
11
passage and we'll move through these as quickly as
12
possible. I know this is a large stack, but only about 40
13
of these pertain to you.
14
A Okay.
14:56:32 15
Q So, all right. Exhibit 38A, is this an e-mail that
16
you received from Mr. Killgore February 17, 2012,
17
forwarding you an AG opinion on the use of OCE funds that
18
you read?
19
A I don't specifically recall this e-mail, but I
20
remember reading this advice.
14:57:35 21
Q The legal opinion?
22
A I didn't recall that it came in the form of an
23
e-mail.
14:57:44 24
Q Thank you.
25
A Do you want these upside down?
82
14:57:46 1
Q Yeah, that would be great, thank you.
2
38B, is this another e-mail from Mr. Killgore
3
February 17th, 2012, forwarding an earlier opinion from
4
the AG?
5
A Like the previous exhibit, I remember reading the
6
memorandum; I didn't remember that it came in the form of
7
this e-mail.
14:58:16 8
Q So you read the legal opinion.
9
A Correct.
14:58:42 10
Q Exhibit 39, is this an e-mail from you to Mitch
11
Morrow dated February 17th, 2012, in which you state,
12
"This looks like good news, talk more next week"?
13
A Yes, I recall this e-mail.
14:59:07 14
Q Exhibit 40, is this an e-mail from you to Kelli
15
Ketchum on draft services agreement between DOC and OCE?
16
A So for clarification, are you wanting to know --
14:59:25 17
Q Just what it is.
18
A -- if I remember reading the e-mail?
14:59:28 19
Q No.
20
A Okay.
14:59:29 21
Q Is that what I've described?
22
A Yes.
14:59:30 23
Q Thank you.
24
MR. LIPPOLD: Is it what it appears to be.
25
THE WITNESS: Great, okay.
83
14:59:40 1
Q BY MR. BUSSE: Exhibit 41A, is this your e-mail
2
March 14th to all DOC employees, 3:09 p.m., in the middle
3
of Page 1?
4
A Yes, it is.
15:00:02 5
Q And if you go over to --
6
A Including two attachments.
15:00:19 7
Q The last page, that's the old org chart showing a
8
dotted line between OCE and the office of the director;
9
correct?
10
A That is correct.
15:00:39 11
Q And next to the last page, that shows that dotted
12
line being changed to a solid line; correct?
13
A That is correct.
15:00:57 14
Q Exhibit 42, this is Mr. Killgore's March 16th e-mail
15
to you. Do you see that there?
16
A Yes.
15:01:14 17
Q And he says, "I wanted to make sure we were not going
18
to be in conflict with the earlier AG opinions in regard
19
to the MOU that we've been working on. As a result, I had
20
Neil Bryant do a confidential review of the MOU. His
21
evaluation suggests that certain paragraphs would not be
22
in compliance and recommended a DOJ review." Do you see
23
that there?
24
A I do.
15:01:39 25
Q Do you recall what your response was to the
84
1
recommended DOJ review?
2
A I do not.
15:01:46 3
Q Do you recall opposing it?
4
A I do not.
15:01:58 5
Q Exhibit 44, this is your e-mail to Mr. Killgore dated
6
April 17th, 2012; correct?
7
A That is correct.
15:02:13 8
Q And he tells you below that he had an idea about
9
converting an existing area into an employee readiness
10
center. And above that you're saying, "I'm glad to have
11
you moving forward to review this proposal, it seems like
12
an exciting one, thanks for your -- thanks again for your
13
progressive thinking." You thought that would be a good
14
idea?
15
A I did.
15:02:59 16
Q 45, down below on Page 1, Mr. Killgore's writing to
17
you April 10th about Ecotex proposal; correct?
18
A Correct.
15:03:15 19
Q And he says, "Hi, Colette, attached is Neil's
20
counterproposal to Ecotex. Mitch, Neil, and I discussed
21
this proposal." Do you see that there?
22
A I do.
15:03:27 23
Q So you knew at the time that Neil Bryant was working
24
on the Ecotex matter; correct?
25
A Correct, even though I didn't recall that earlier.
85
15:03:34 1
Q Okay. And when you got this, did you tell Mr. Morrow
2
not to have Mr. Bryant doing that?
3
A No, I did not, because I did not know he was doing it
4
without DOJ's approval or outside of the statutory
5
capability of doing so.
15:03:47 6
Q Did you know he needed it?
7
MR. LIPPOLD: Pardon me?
8
A Pardon?
15:03:52 9
Q BY MR. BUSSE: Did you know that he needed it?
10
MR. LIPPOLD: Oh, "needed it."
11
A Yes, I was aware that in order to obtain counsel
12
outside of the DOJ, authorized counsel, you utilize DOJ to
13
hire a SAG.
15:04:07 14
Q BY MR. BUSSE: So did you ask the question at any
15
time in 2012, "Did you get DOJ approval for this?"
16
A I did not. I assumed he did.
15:04:14 17
Q Did you ask Mr. Morrow whether or not he knew that
18
these outside attorneys were being retained by OCE?
19
A I did not.
15:04:25 20
Q Do you know if Mr. Morrow posed the question to
21
Mr. Killgore, "Did you get DOJ approval for that?"
22
A Not that I know of.
15:04:45 23
Q Is this your e-mail to Mr. Killgore dated July 22nd,
24
2012? Up there at the top.
25
A It is.
86
15:04:57 1
Q And he tells you below -- or Mark Warne tells
2
Killgore below, "Wanted to let you know that the executive
3
committee voted unanimously to move forward with the pilot
4
program", and Mr. Killgore -- and then up at the top, you
5
say, "Nice work Rob! Very impressive." You were
6
complimenting Mr. Killgore for his work on that issue;
7
correct?
8
A I was, based on what I knew at the time.
15:05:34 9
Q Is there some reason to withdraw that compliment?
10
A Yes, because later I learned that our union at Coffee
11
Creek, AOCE, was not on board with the decision to move
12
the relationship with AFL-CIO into a career readiness
13
center. I also didn't realize that Mark Warne, as a board
14
member at OCE, was actually going to be the personal
15
recipient of the contract dollars for that program.
15:06:11 16
Q Did Mark Warne resign from the board?
17
A He did.
15:06:16 18
Q When that contract was signed?
19
A I don't recall if he resigned from the board before
20
the contract was signed or after.
15:06:24 21
Q Well, he didn't receive any monies while he was on
22
the board from that contract, did he?
23
A He did not, but he made the recommendation to create
24
the career readiness center while he was a board member.
25
So the conflict was already there, in my mind.
87
15:06:49 1
Q And Exhibit 48, again, is this an e-mail from you to
2
Chane Griggs and copying in Mr. Killgore and others
3
dated --
4
A It is.
15:07:08 5
Q -- dated July 22nd, 2012?
6
A It is.
15:07:13 7
Q And you're complimenting Mr. Killgore again for his
8
hard work on the same project; correct?
9
A I am, given the information that I had at the time.
15:07:35 10
Q Exhibit 56, down below, Mr. Killgore tells you that,
11
the first line of Paragraph 2, "I had Neil Bryant review
12
Mitch's e-mail from earlier this year and his opinion is
13
that the expenses related to the Buddy Herron funeral were
14
outside the scope of our laws", do you see that there?
15
A I do.
15:08:06 16
Q "Attached is Neil's letter." I take it you read
17
that.
18
A I did, at the time.
15:08:11 19
Q And that it says, up above there, Mr. Morrow writes,
20
"I'm not sure about OCE sometimes. Let's discuss before
21
we move forward." Did you do that?
22
A For clarification, did I do what?
15:08:33 23
Q Discuss with Mr. Morrow before moving forward, in
24
response to his suggestion.
25
A I don't remember specifically, but I'm sure we did.
88
15:08:43 1
Q Do you recall anything that was said in that meeting?
2
A Nothing specifically, but I remember generally having
3
a conversation around this issue.
15:08:55 4
Q And it would be impossible for you, at this point, to
5
relate anything of substance that was said in that
6
meeting?
7
A No. What I -- I'm happy to share generally what I
8
remember.
15:09:05 9
Q Please do.
10
A I remember the conversation. As you can see here, I
11
say, "It's like a rubber band that cannot stay stretched."
12
The conversation that followed talked about that
13
frustration I talked to you about earlier, where I would
14
have a conversation with Rob, I thought a thoughtful
15
conversation, specifically around this issue and the CAFR
16
and why it didn't need to go into the CAFR report, and he
17
would, in the meeting -- did, in the meeting with me,
18
agree and say, "You're right, I understand it, that makes
19
complete sense," and then I would receive an e-mail that
20
says to me he doesn't think it still makes sense and he's
21
still exploring it.
22
And so, again, I don't remember specifically,
23
but I know generally, at this point in time, I was
24
starting to get frustrated that I would have a
25
conversation with Mr. Killgore and then very shortly
89
1
afterwards he would change his thinking on where he was.
15:10:09 2
Q If you get advised by a lawyer that something's
3
illegal, do you think it's reasonable to take that into
4
account?
5
A Oh, no doubt. And that's a separate issue.
15:10:18 6
Q Oh, it is.
7
A Oh, no doubt. Absolutely.
15:10:21 8
Q You did read below that he had received a legal
9
opinion that the expenditure would be illegal?
10
A Yes. And so --
15:10:27 11
Q Don't you think it's reasonable for him to take that
12
into account in formulating his position?
13
A No doubt. And we had that conversation from a legal
14
perspective. I was speaking to -- speaking to the ongoing
15
conversations we were having with Mr. Killgore.
15:10:43 16
Q And when you say, in response to "I'm not sure about
17
OCE sometimes," "I'm with you. It's like a rubber band
18
that just cannot stay stretched", what did you mean by
19
that exactly?
20
A Beyond what I just explained?
15:11:01 21
Q Well, just focusing on "it's like a rubber band that
22
just cannot stay stretched", what are you referring to
23
specifically?
24
A That's what I was speaking to before, not the
25
criminal behavior. I was speaking to this frustration
90
1
that I would have conversations with Rob, he would say
2
that we were clearly in line with each other, we had the
3
same understanding, and then later I would learn that he
4
wasn't clear and he wasn't settled. And this is one
5
example of that.
15:11:28 6
Q How could it be an example of that when you've just
7
said that you understand full well that somebody who gets
8
a legal opinion would be in a different position?
9
MR. LIPPOLD: Objection, argumentative. Go
10
ahead.
11
A In my thinking, I -- I thought the issue had been
12
settled and resolved. I didn't know that he was going and
13
asking for a legal opinion at this point in time.
15:11:48 14
Q BY MR. BUSSE: So whether or not he was, it was
15
equally frustrating to you.
16
A No. For clarification, it wasn't that he asked for
17
legal advice that was frustrating for me, it was that this
18
was another example of a situation where I had had a
19
conversation with Rob, he said we were in agreement, that
20
we were on the same page, and then clearly we weren't,
21
because he reached out for a legal opinion.
15:12:16 22
Q You would agree, though, "it's like a rubber band
23
that just cannot stay stretched" was an expression of your
24
frustration; correct?
25
A Yes, but to be very clear, not that he asked for a
91
1
legal opinion, but that he had changed his mind once
2
again.
15:12:27 3
Q After consulting with a lawyer; right?
4
MR. LIPPOLD: Objection, argumentative.
5
A Let me -- let me be clear. He -- it was following
6
the meeting that he consulted with a lawyer that said to
7
me he left that meeting still unsure about this issue and
8
yet, in that meeting, he made it very clear that he wasn't
9
unsure about that issue.
15:12:54 10
Q BY MR. BUSSE: Whether or not somebody tells you in a
11
meeting they're settled or sure about something, don't you
12
want people working for you that if they think something
13
needs a legal opinion they get it, so that you don't make
14
an error?
15
A Oh, no doubt --
16
MR. LIPPOLD: Object --
17
MR. BUSSE: Please let -- Yeah, go ahead,
18
you make your objection.
19
MR. LIPPOLD: Thank you.
20
Objection, argumentative. Continue.
21
A No doubt about it, absolutely. But I would also
22
request that someone at that level be honest with me in a
23
meeting about how they're feeling about a particular
24
situation. So if he thought that he needed a legal
25
opinion or he was still unsettled in this issue, in that
92
1
meeting I would have wanted him to say that, not, "Yes,
2
we're fine, you're right, this is -- we're good." So do
3
you see the difference there?
15:13:38 4
Q BY MR. BUSSE: Don't you allow the possibility that
5
someone may think that maybe they should get one after the
6
meeting?
7
MR. LIPPOLD: Objection, argumentative. Go
8
ahead.
9
A Again, the way our policy group works, typically what
10
would happen is, even if he did change his mind, let's
11
say -- and I don't do hypotheticals often, but he slept on
12
it and the next day it didn't feel right. Then,
13
typically, what the executive team would do would come
14
back and say, "I know we had this conversation, it made
15
sense to me yesterday, but I'm -- I have new thoughts
16
today, can we talk through this, and I think I need a
17
legal opinion," and then we would have a conversation
18
about that.
15:14:11 19
Q BY MR. BUSSE: So before going to an outside lawyer,
20
you would expect him to come back to you, and that was the
21
problem.
22
A And just resolve the conversation that we had.
15:14:20 23
Q Was that the problem?
24
A Yes.
15:14:21 25
Q Thank you.
93
1
MR. LIPPOLD: Let's take a break.
2
MR. BUSSE: Oh, come on, let's do it. We've
3
only got about 20 to go.
4
(A recess was taken.)
15:17:25 5
Q BY MR. BUSSE: Okay, 59. Is this an e-mail you
6
received from Mr. Killgore Friday August 24th?
7
A It is.
15:18:12 8
Q In this he says that "Neil called me last night and
9
said that he worked out a solution with Colette. He will
10
give us another opinion that recommends not reporting the
11
funeral expenses to the CAFR because there was no criminal
12
activity involved."
13
Was part of your information to Mr. Bryant
14
that so long as there's no criminal activity involved it
15
doesn't need to be reported?
16
A I don't recall, but I have no reason to dispute that,
17
because that's in this e-mail.
15:18:50 18
Q Exhibit 60. Down below, is this your e-mail to
19
Mr. Killgore dated August 27, 2012, on the CAFR question?
20
A It is.
15:19:09 21
Q And up above there, you send a copy to Mr. Morrow
22
labeling it "Sent"; correct?
23
A Correct.
15:19:20 24
Q So you had told Mr. Morrow that you'd be taking this
25
action; right?
94
1
A I don't recall specifically, but that has to be what
2
that means, I'm sure it is. It would be normal course of
3
business for me to run that by the deputy.
15:19:35 4
Q And then he thanks you, up above; correct?
5
A M-hm.
15:19:39 6
Q And what's your understanding as to why he thanked
7
you?
8
9
question, it calls for speculation.
15:19:49 10
Q BY MR. BUSSE: Please.
11
A I don't know. I don't know if he was thanking me
12
because I briefed him that it was sent --
15:19:54 13
Q Oh, okay.
14
A -- would be likely.
15:20:03 15
Q Over on Page 2, you say of Mr. Morrow in the second
16
paragraph, "I believe you misjudged him for who he is, and
17
while I may be wrong on how you feel about him, I do sense
18
a lack of respect and even acknowledgment of his
19
background, experience, history, dedication to OCE's
20
success and dedication to your personal success."
21
You were speaking of Mr. Morrow there;
22
correct?
23
A I was.
15:20:27 24
Q So were you, in this memorandum, asking Mr. Killgore
25
to respect Mr. Morrow's position as a leader in DOC?
95
1
A I was.
15:20:58 2
Q Exhibit 61.
3
MR. BUSSE: I apologize, Counsel, I don't
4
see that I have a copy for you.
5
MR. LIPPOLD: I have it. I have it.
6
MR. BUSSE: Okay.
7
MR. LIPPOLD: We've used it already.
8
Oh, this was the one that you gave and took
9
back.
10
MR. BUSSE: I got it.
15:21:14 11
Q BY MR. BUSSE: And is this your e-mail to
12
Mr. Killgore on the subject of advisory council positions
13
dated September 7th, 2012?
14
A It is.
15:21:59 15
Q And I know this is not your e-mail, but this is one
16
to Mr. Killgore from Mr. Bryant's office. And in the
17
third paragraph it is stated, "After discussions with DOC
18
Director Colette Peters, it appears that CAFR disclosures
19
are intended to discover illegal activities that benefit
20
individuals or specific entities", do you see that there?
21
A I do.
15:22:19 22
Q Is that what you told Mr. Bryant in your
23
conversation?
24
A Again, as I said earlier, I didn't remember the
25
specifics of the conversation, but it wouldn't surprise me
96
1
that that is what I told him. I remember thinking I
2
didn't -- Ms. Dohrman describing it as large bags of money
3
for illegal purposes, so...
15:22:44 4
Q Well --
5
A That is likely that that is what I used -- that is
6
similar language to what I used in my phone call with him.
15:22:50 7
Q Is the conversation with her the sole source for
8
your -- the statement here?
9
10
question, calls for speculation.
11
MR. BUSSE: I'll -- strike that.
15:23:05 12
Q BY MR. BUSSE: Is your conversation with Ms. Dohrman
13
the sole source of your information to Mr. Bryant about
14
what is intended in CAFR disclosures?
15
A Yes. I relied on her as an expert to educate us on
16
what you typically disclose in a CAFR report. And for me,
17
as I mentioned earlier, to be really clear, it wasn't that
18
I was opposed to disclosing something in the CAFR report,
19
what was hard for me to understand is, if the Buddy Herron
20
funeral, then why not everything, which then prompted me
21
to pose more questions and figure out what should or
22
should not go into a CAFR report.
15:23:42 23
Q And how do you spell her last name?
24
A D-o-r-h-m-a-n (sic).
25
MR. BUSSE: Would you please make a note to
97
1
me that I need to depose Ms. Dohrman.
15:24:22 2
Q BY MR. BUSSE: Exhibit 66, Mr. Morrow, at the bottom
3
of Page 1, is telling Mr. Killgore of the move to the
4
dome. Did you make that decision?
5
A I did.
15:24:30 6
Q And why did you move Mr. Killgore and some of his
7
staff to the dome?
8
A I mentioned it briefly earlier. There was really a
9
disconnect between OCE and the Department of Corrections,
10
and I noticed it right away when I came back to the
11
agency.
12
When I had left the agency years before, it
13
seemed very connected, and he seemed personally
14
disconnected, the group seemed disconnected. And as I
15
talked about kind of creating this more collegial policy
16
group and this idea of the four-legged stool, I had hoped
17
that having him in the building would help facilitate
18
that. You know, I think, often, there are more bonding
19
and more solutions solved in the hallways of an office
20
rather than in formal meetings, so that was our intent.
15:25:20 21
Q In making him a permanent member of the policy group,
22
what was the idea behind that?
23
A When I first arrived at the department in 2004, he
24
was a permanent member of the policy group, and the
25
previous director changed that model. I wanted to
98
1
reinstate him as a director of the policy group to really
2
formulate that symbiotic relationship between OCE and DOC.
15:25:55 3
Q Exhibit 67, is this an e-mail from Mr. Morrow to you
4
dated September 11, 2012?
5
A It is.
15:26:06 6
Q And he's briefing you on your meeting with PSU. The
7
second line he says, "You will be asking them to rewrite
8
their report", do you see that there?
9
A I do.
15:26:29 10
Q And then he's suggesting that after a few minutes,
11
kick Mr. Ingle and Mr. Morrow out of the meeting so that
12
you can meet alone with Mr. Keisling; correct?
13
A Correct.
15:26:50 14
Q And Mr. Morrow also provided you with talking points
15
for your meeting with Mr. Keisling; correct?
16
A Correct.
15:27:07 17
Q And that's Exhibit 68?
18
A It is.
15:27:07 19
Q And did you make these points in your discussion with
20
Mr. Keisling?
21
A I don't recall. It's common for the deputy or
22
somebody else to provide talking points for me for
23
meetings. I'm sure I received this and reviewed it; I'm
24
not remembering it, however, but I'm sure I did. I don't
25
know, then, if I made every single point.
99
15:27:31 1
Q Let's take a look at a particular point. On Page 1
2
Paragraph 4 where it says, "Given the size and operational
3
components of OCE, we see the current internal physical
4
controls as appropriate. More oversight does not
5
necessarily equate to reduced misuse or abuse." Did you
6
make that point with Mr. Keisling?
7
A I don't recall.
15:27:51 8
Q Down at the bottom where it says in the second to the
9
last line of the page, "OCE is part of the DOC and the DOC
10
is part of OCE. These are not two separate entities, nor
11
should they be. We consider OCE to be a division of the
12
agency," did you make that point to Mr. Keisling?
13
A I'm sorry, make -- can you tell me where you are?
14
MR. LIPPOLD: Final paragraph.
15
THE WITNESS: Okay, thank you.
16
A I don't recall if I made that with Mr. Keisling or
17
not.
15:28:27 18
Q BY MR. BUSSE: You don't disagree with it, do you?
19
A But I do not disagree with it. The only thing that I
20
might object to is the word "division"; it's clearly its
21
own entity. I'd describe it more like I already have
22
today, trying to be an equal part of the policy group and
23
a more collaborative relationship with the other -- with
24
the three assistant directors.
15:29:06 25
Q Exhibit 74, this is your e-mail to Mr. Morrow
100
1
October 7th, at the top of Page 1 of 74, and his response
2
above it; correct?
3
A It is.
15:29:19 4
Q And you say, "I bet this is the first time you've
5
seen these." Why would you bet that?
6
A I don't remember exactly what I was thinking at the
7
time, but, having now just read the e-mail, what I would
8
say is I had never heard about this report before or this
9
consultation. And as I'm reading his e-mail, he says,
10
"Interesting information, I will inquire more, you know,
11
inquire to the cost", so I'm just assuming that this is
12
the first time he's seen these.
15:30:01 13
Q He says up above, "Yep, neither Max nor I saw this
14
report." Do you know if that's true?
15
A I do not, but I would assume it would be, if that's
16
what he wrote in the e-mail.
15:30:12 17
Q Well, did Mr. Morrow later confess to you that he had
18
seen the report?
19
15:30:36 20
Q Exhibit 83, that's a transcript of your interview
21
with the investigators?
22
A Yes, it is.
15:30:51 23
Q And if we turn over to Page 436 --
24
MR. LIPPOLD: 436?
25
MR. BUSSE: Yeah.
101
1
A (Complied.)
15:31:07 2
Q BY MR. BUSSE: -- about halfway down, Peters saying,
3
"Hmm, I -- I remember him talking about, um, being --
4
having concerns about being invited to a Boy Scout
5
fund-raiser", and -- or that's you saying that.
6
MR. LIPPOLD: M-hm.
7
A (Nodded head.)
15:31:25 8
Q BY MR. BUSSE: So you're saying that Mr. Killgore,
9
you remember Mr. Killgore having concerns about the Boy
10
Scout fund-raiser; right?
11
A Yes, that is correct.
15:31:36 12
Q And down below, third to the last entry, it says in
13
the second line, "Hmm, he had concerns around the -- um,
14
the assisting the Herron family after the homicide."
15
That was another concern you were telling
16
investigators Mr. Killgore had; correct?
17
A That is correct.
15:32:10 18
Q And on the next -- top of the next page, you say,
19
"Um, with, I think, hotel rooms, paying for water for the
20
Honor Guard, again, we talked through that at the time --
21
um, sorry, not at the time, because that happened
22
beforehand."
23
What happened beforehand?
24
A I do not recall. I'm having difficulty following her
25
question. I do not recall. It almost seems as if the --
102
1
an investigator's question is missing.
15:33:18 2
Q Exhibit 84, this is the follow-up meeting with
3
investigators; correct?
4
A It is.
15:33:40 5
Q Down on the bottom of Page 468, in the last entry,
6
are you there?
7
A I am.
15:33:55 8
Q It says in the first line, "Uh, so, first we had been
9
engaging Rob in commun- -- in conversation around
10
performance."
11
Are you referring to any conversations other
12
than those that you've testified here to today?
13
A No. Those would have been the conversations I was
14
referring to.
15:34:21 15
Q And it says, "...and we had been making changes, and
16
I think -- Mitch, I think, did a good job of codifying the
17
conversations that we had with Rob in e-mails following
18
each meeting."
19
And so whatever conversations around
20
Mr. Killgore's performance would be captured in
21
Mr. Morrow's e-mails; is that correct?
22
A Quite often. Probably not every time.
15:34:44 23
Q Well, that's what you're telling the investigator,
24
that they were --
25
A That's correct.
103
15:34:48 1
Q -- being captured; right?
2
A Yes.
15:34:49 3
Q Correct?
4
A Correct.
15:34:51 5
Q Thank you.
6
And so on Page 470, in the fourth entry from
7
the bottom where it says, "Yeah, I couldn't -- I just
8
couldn't more -- more clear about the fact that this was
9
certainly ongoing prior to any complaint coming forward",
10
you were leading the investigators to believe that there
11
were the conversations about Mr. Killgore's performance
12
that were ongoing before the investigation --
13
A Yes.
15:35:48 14
Q -- correct?
15
Thank you.
16
17
question --
18
A No doubt.
19
MR. LIPPOLD: -- go ahead.
20
THE WITNESS: Sorry.
21
MR. LIPPOLD: It's okay.
15:36:04 22
Q BY MR. BUSSE: And the question is put to you, "Does
23
Rob know that? I mean, has there been any personnel
24
action taken or even a little, you know, 'hey, you're' --
25
you know, 'you're getting moved to the dome building
104
1
because you are disengaged,' um, and" -- and your response
2
is "Yes, absolutely." Do you see that there?
3
A I do.
15:36:21 4
Q Who said that to him?
5
A Who said, "Yes, absolutely"?
15:36:27 6
Q No. Who said, "The reason why you're getting moved
7
to the dome is because you're disengaged"?
8
A That would have been a conversation I had with him;
9
I'm certain Deputy Director Morrow had it with him. I
10
don't believe I used those words "disengaged," it was more
11
disconnected, not feeling like an equal part of policy
12
group and part of that executive team.
15:36:47 13
Q So not necessarily a bad thing.
14
15
question. Go ahead.
16
A No, I would say it was a bad thing. As I said just
17
minutes ago, when I arrived at the department in 2004,
18
there was a lot more engagement, he was a member of the
19
executive team, there was collaboration, and when I came
20
to the department a second time, there was certainly
21
disconnection that had occurred. He was personally
22
disengaged, as was his organization.
15:37:24 23
Q BY MR. BUSSE: Did you inform him first of his being
24
moved to the dome, or did Mr. Morrow?
25
A I don't recall.
105
15:37:30 1
Q But you have a specific recollection of a
2
conversation with Mr. Killgore about the reason for moving
3
him to the dome.
4
A I do.
15:38:25 5
Q Exhibit 87, is this an e-mail from Gary Sims to you
6
10/26/2012?
7
A It is.
8
May I pause for a minute?
9
THE WITNESS: That's a three-hour meter;
10
right?
11
MR. LIPPOLD: Yes.
12
THE WITNESS: Okay.
15:38:52 13
Q BY MR. BUSSE: And so, down below, it says, "Rob,
14
listed below are the issues Chris and I have found between
15
AOCE and the OCE. We'll be meeting to find solutions";
16
you write up above, "Thanks for this, Gary"; and then Gary
17
says to you at the top, "Colette, I met with Rob and Gary
18
on Monday to work on solutions. Now, for review of
19
solutions and closure we, Rob, Gary, Kevin, John, Chris,
20
and I, will need to meet Mitch."
21
Do you know if they did that?
22
A I do not.
15:39:34 23
Q At least as of this e-mail, you were informed that
24
Mr. Killgore and these other persons were working on these
25
issues; correct?
106
1
A That's correct.
15:40:00 2
Q And Exhibit 89, this is your e-mail to Mr. Morrow
3
11/4/2012, "Thanks for handling, Mitch"; correct?
4
A That is correct.
15:40:09 5
Q And which he attaches his thanks to Rob for handling
6
issues; correct?
7
A I don't see the part where he's thanking him.
15:40:27 8
Q Right up -- right there on Page 1, right below yours.
9
A So I don't know if he's thanking him for sending the
10
e-mail or for his work. So I wouldn't want to speculate.
11
But I do see the "Thanks Rob".
15:40:49 12
Q Down below is not an e-mail to Mr. Killgore
13
forwarding something to Mr. Morrow, it's Mr. Killgore
14
copying in Mr. Morrow and others on what he is doing
15
proactively to set up meetings to discuss potential
16
solutions with the involved parties; correct? That's how
17
you read that, isn't it?
18
19
20
A So for clarification purposes, the e-mail to Kevin
21
from Rob talks about setting up a meeting to discuss
22
potential solutions to the three AOCE demand to bargain
23
issues asking to include people in the conversation and to
24
get the meeting scheduled. So that's -- I read that
25
e-mail as it is.
107
1
The "Thanks, Rob" from the deputy to
2
Mr. Killgore, I don't know the intent behind that
3
"Thanks", I don't know if he's simply thanking him for
4
this e-mail, and I wouldn't want to speculate.
15:41:49 5
Q BY MR. BUSSE: But when you got this, I'm sure you
6
read the whole thing; right?
7
A At the time, I'm sure I did.
15:41:53 8
Q And you knew from reading it that Mr. Killgore was
9
actively involved in arriving at a solution.
10
A Correct.
15:42:00 11
Q Thank you.
12
Exhibit 96, is this your e-mail to
13
Mr. Killgore November 15th, 2012?
14
A It is.
15:42:22 15
Q And you're thanking him for terminating the contract
16
with the two attorneys listed below; right?
17
A I am.
15:42:36 18
Q Exhibit 97, did you receive Mr. Killgore's
19
November 16th e-mail, which is Exhibit 97?
20
A I have.
15:42:57 21
Q And did you read it when you received it?
22
A I did.
15:43:01 23
Q In the third paragraph of Page 1 he says, "Neil
24
Bryant was hired in November 2011 with the approval of
25
Max." Do you know if that's true?
108
1
A I do not.
15:43:13 2
Q And where it says in the next paragraph, "Neil was
3
hired to focus on the Ecotex situation", you became aware
4
that he was working on that situation; correct?
5
A Correct.
15:43:31 6
Q And it says, "As you are aware, we also used his
7
services for review of Mitch's business practice e-mail
8
from which Neil wrote the opinion that was used in our
9
annual audit and ultimately came up with the CAFR
10
reporting decision which you discussed with him this past
11
summer." That's true, isn't it?
12
A And which paragraph are you in?
15:43:55 13
Q (Indicated.)
14
A Thank you.
15:43:58 15
Q Paragraph right here.
16
A Correct.
15:44:05 17
Q And then it says in the next paragraph, "Bruce Zagar
18
was hired this fall and is a business associate of Neil's.
19
I had asked Neil some labor questions over some of the
20
AOCE issues and he recommended Bruce, who specializes in
21
labor law." Do you know if that's true?
22
A I do. For clarification, I do know that he hired
23
Bruce Zagar. I do not know if he is a specialist in labor
24
law.
15:44:42 25
Q And then in the fourth line it says, "At my request,
109
1
Gary Kilmer briefed Mitch Morrow about Bruce Zagar before
2
the permanent hiring." Do you know if that's true?
3
A I do not recall.
15:44:53 4
Q Do you know -- my question is, do you know --
5
MR. LIPPOLD: Object to the form --
15:44:55 6
Q BY MR. BUSSE: -- whether it's true?
7
MR. LIPPOLD: I'm sorry, I apologize for
8
interrupting.
9
Objection, calls for speculation. Go ahead.
10
A I do not recall if that is true.
15:45:04 11
Q BY MR. BUSSE: Did you know at one time?
12
A I did.
15:45:06 13
Q And you've forgotten whether it's true or false?
14
A Did I know that he hired another lawyer, or did I
15
know that he briefed the deputy?
15:45:20 16
Q Yes. Do you know whether or not Mr. Killgore briefed
17
the deputy director, Mr. Mitch Morrow, before the
18
permanent hiring?
19
A Again, I don't recall if he was briefed. I do know
20
that I didn't know until a later date that he did it
21
without DOJ approval.
15:45:53 22
Q And on the next page, the third to the last paragraph
23
right here, it says, "Another thing that we need to
24
consider at the conclusion of the DOJ investigation is
25
having the Secretary of State's office audit OCE", do you
110
1
see that?
2
A I do.
15:46:09 3
Q And did you follow up on that recommendation?
4
A I did.
15:46:15 5
Q And was there such an audit?
6
A It is currently under way.
15:46:22 7
Q And when do you expect its results?
8
A I do not know.
15:46:26 9
Q And is there a document that has initiated the audit?
10
A Not to my recollection, but that doesn't mean there
11
isn't one.
15:46:41 12
Q Is there a document that describes its scope?
13
A Not to my recollection, but that doesn't mean there
14
isn't one.
15:46:50 15
Q Who's conducting the audit in the Secretary of
16
State's office?
17
A I do not know.
15:46:53 18
Q Do you know if it's an outside firm?
19
A I do not, but that doesn't mean it isn't.
15:47:00 20
Q Have you been interviewed by anybody associated with
21
the audit?
22
A I have not.
15:47:04 23
Q Do you know what work has been performed on the
24
audit?
25
A I do not.
111
1
2
request to have produced any Secretary of State audit of
3
OCE that is currently under way and any work papers
4
associated therewith and any interviews of DOC personnel
5
associated therewith.
15:47:29 6
Q BY MR. BUSSE: In the next paragraph, it says, as to
7
the move to the dome, "All of us are finding it
8
operationally difficult due to the physical distance from
9
the administrative hub of OCE", do you see that there?
10
A I do.
15:47:45 11
Q Do you know if that's true?
12
13
14
A I do not know if it is true.
15:47:58 15
Q BY MR. BUSSE: Did you consider that when you made
16
the decision?
17
A I did. I think change is difficult, any kind of
18
change is difficult for an organization. But the
19
conclusion was that the staff that were remaining there,
20
while it would require some scheduling and some logistics,
21
that the benefits that would come from having the high
22
level of his executive team in the dome far outweighed
23
that.
15:48:32 24
Q Did you ask anybody at OCE about the prospective move
25
to obtain any information about its merits and demerits
112
1
before making your final decision?
2
A I do not recall.
15:49:05 3
Q You don't recall doing that?
4
A I don't recall.
5
THE WITNESS: So can I do a point of order?
6
So, I need --
7
MR. LIPPOLD: You need to go plug your
8
meter.
9
THE WITNESS: I need to go plug my meter,
10
but I also need to be in Portland by 5. I thought we were
11
going to be completed at 3:30 today.
12
MR. BUSSE: 4:00 is the time that I have for
13
you.
14
MR. LIPPOLD: Yeah, it is 4:00.
15
THE WITNESS: Okay. Good to know.
16
MR. BUSSE: I have one, two, three, four,
17
five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten sticky points and we
18
should be done by 4:00, right on time, if we can just push
19
through, if you will be willing.
20
THE WITNESS: Okay.
21
MR. BUSSE: Are you ready?
22
THE WITNESS: I am. Continue.
15:49:52 23
Q BY MR. BUSSE: 101D, is this an e-mail from Leonard
24
Williamson to you dated November 21st, 2012?
25
A It is.
113
15:50:03 1
Q Were you soliciting his assistance in preparing
2
drafts to the letter we just went through from
3
Mr. Killgore?
4
A I was.
15:50:10 5
Q Why were you doing that?
6
A That's a common practice where I will engage with
7
folks on my executive team or in my communications office
8
and then they'll help prepare the first draft following a
9
conversation I've had with them.
15:50:29 10
Q So what was it about Mr. Williamson's expertise that
11
caused you to think that that would be a good idea?
12
A Because he had been my liaison with DOJ in the
13
personnel matters with Mr. Killgore, as well as the
14
liaison during the criminal investigation.
15:50:41 15
Q And were you also soliciting information from
16
Mr. Morrow, getting his ideas about what should be in that
17
draft, as well?
18
A To some degree. There had become a point in the
19
conversation where Mr. Morrow really recused himself from
20
any conversations as it related to the personnel issues.
21
So I would have to some degree, but not -- not completely.
15:51:09 22
Q When did he recuse himself?
23
A I don't recall exactly when.
15:51:13 24
Q Was it before or after the criminal investigation
25
came to your attention?
114
1
A After.
15:51:35 2
Q Did he say why he was recusing himself?
3
A Because he was the subject of that criminal
4
investigation.
15:51:53 5
Q Exhibit 108. In the middle of Page 1 of 108, is this
6
your e-mail to Mr. Keisling?
7
A It is.
15:52:22 8
Q And we talked about how he expressed his
9
unwillingness; correct?
10
A We did.
15:52:58 11
Q Exhibit 116, this is an e-mail you received from
12
Mr. Williamson dated February 8, 2013?
13
A May I?
15:53:03 14
Q I'm sorry.
15
A Thank you.
16
It is.
15:53:49 17
Q So we have Mr. Killgore's e-mail on Page 2 to Sarah
18
Miller.
19
A We do.
15:53:59 20
Q Do you see that?
21
A (Nodded head.)
15:54:00 22
Q Okay. And then on Page 1 we see your e-mail to Mitch
23
Morrow. Do you see that?
24
A I do.
15:54:12 25
Q Dated February 28th, that same afternoon.
115
1
How did you get Mr. Killgore's e-mail to Sarah
2
Miller?
3
A I do not recall specifically, but I'm fairly
4
confident she forwarded it to me.
15:54:39 5
Q Did you have a conversation with her about it?
6
A I did.
15:54:44 7
Q And tell me the substance of that conversation.
8
A I don't remember the specifics, but generally I
9
remember that when I read this e-mail it was very clear to
10
me that Mr. Killgore had no intention of moving down the
11
path that was in line with my vision and that he was still
12
inclined to move in the direction of separating both
13
agencies.
15:55:17 14
Q So you remember nothing of your conversation with
15
Ms. Miller.
16
A Aside from the general description I just provided to
17
you?
15:55:25 18
Q Well, you just referred to the e-mail.
19
A So I don't remember the specifics of the
20
conversation, but generally I remember sharing my
21
conclusions based on the e-mail that I just described.
15:55:44 22
Q That's what you told her.
23
A Correct.
15:55:44 24
Q And what did she say in response?
25
A I don't remember specifically her words, but she was
116
1
certainly in agreement; that was her read of the e-mail,
2
as well.
15:55:53 3
Q Well, what did she say to lead you to conclude that
4
was the gist of her response?
5
A Again, I don't remember her specific language, but I
6
remember her being in agreement.
15:56:07 7
Q And what is it about his e-mail that led you to
8
believe that?
9
A He is wanting for a clarification of the relationship
10
between the DOC director in the -- it really is everything
11
that's in the fourth paragraph noted in this e-mail from
12
Mr. Killgore.
15:56:43 13
Q Commencing with what word?
14
A "You had mentioned..."
15:56:49 15
Q Okay.
16
A Then ending with "...session 2015."
15:56:51 17
Q I see that as the fifth paragraph. Is that -- does
18
that comport --
19
A It is, I stand corrected.
15:57:14 20
Q There we go. So...
21
And what was it about that paragraph that
22
caused you to believe what you told Ms. Miller?
23
A It was just very reflective of the conversations he
24
had had in the past about wanting a separation between the
25
director of DOC and the administrator of OCE and also
117
1
creating a -- here, he says a more empowered board, which
2
is in line with what he talked about before, where the
3
reporting requirement for the OCE administrator would go
4
to the board and not the director of DOC.
15:57:47 5
Q Is there anything else in that paragraph that you're
6
referring to?
7
A There is not.
15:58:05 8
Q And after you received this from Ms. Miller, did you
9
speak with Mr. Killgore about it and what he meant by any
10
of the language he used in --
11
A I did not.
15:58:19 12
Q When you spoke with Ms. Miller, did she ask you
13
whether or not you had spoken with Mr. Killgore about
14
that?
15
15:58:38 16
Q And so was there any decision made in your
17
conversation with Ms. Miller about Mr. Killgore?
18
MR. LIPPOLD: Objection, vague. Go ahead.
19
A No.
15:58:55 20
Q BY MR. BUSSE: Did you make any other comments in the
21
conversation with Ms. Miller, apart from those that you've
22
already told us about?
23
A None specifically that I can recall now.
15:59:11 24
Q Exhibit 117, this is your e-mail March 1st, 2013;
25
correct?
118
1
A It is.
15:59:31 2
Q 123, this is a packet of e-mails you were forwarding
3
to Mr. Leonard Williamson March 5th, 2013, for what
4
purpose?
5
A I do not recall. I do not recall if this was at the
6
request of DOJ.
16:00:15 7
Q Exhibit 124, can you tell me what this has to do with
8
his termination, if anything?
9
A I allude to a hostile work environment in his
10
termination letter. We had begun getting complaints like
11
these from his staff around issues that had been ongoing
12
at OCE.
16:01:02 13
Q So had you concluded that he had created a hostile
14
work environment?
15
A I had not. And, in fact, didn't use that language in
16
my termination letter, if I'm recalling correctly, because
17
we had not investigated these complaints yet.
16:01:16 18
Q What knowledge of any hostile work environment do you
19
have that he created, sitting here today?
20
A Again, that is still under review.
16:01:26 21
Q Do you have any knowledge today?
22
A I have knowledge of complaints that have come
23
forward, yes.
16:01:31 24
Q Like what?
25
A Like Exhibit 124.
119
16:01:37 1
Q Okay. Do you know what Mr. Killgore's side of that
2
story is?
3
A Of these allegations, I do not.
16:01:47 4
Q Do you know if anybody has been interviewed in
5
connection with Exhibit 124?
6
A I know that interviews have been conducted. I do not
7
know who has been interviewed.
16:01:58 8
Q Or what the results of those interviews are?
9
A I do not, sir.
16:02:01 10
Q Now, you say "like 124." Do you know of any other
11
complaint that came forward about Mr. Killgore?
12
A I do.
16:02:07 13
Q And what complaint is that?
14
A I know that there have been a handful of complaints
15
from employees at OCE, but I do not recall their names at
16
this time, both formally and informally.
16:02:22 17
Q Are these written complaints?
18
A There were more written complaints, yes.
16:02:29 19
Q And if you can't remember the name, can you relate
20
the factual basis for any complaint that you're referring
21
to?
22
A I don't remember specifics, I remember them being
23
similar to this complaint that you have here.
24
25
request to have produced any complaints, investigations
120
1
concerning any complaints, statements, and associated
2
materials regarding any hostile work environment complaint
3
made, formally or informally, about Mr. Killgore or OCE in
4
2011 or 2012 or 2013.
16:03:34 5
Q BY MR. BUSSE: Exhibit 125, your counsel has given us
6
this document from Mr. Ron West. Does this document have
7
anything to do with Mr. Killgore's termination?
8
A It does, just like the previous exhibit.
16:03:56 9
Q And same questions. Do you know what Mr. Killgore's
10
side of the story on this is?
11
A I do not.
16:04:19 12
Q Did you have any conversation, other than the one
13
that we've discussed, with Sarah Miller about terminating
14
Mr. Killgore?
15
A Not that I recall. I believe it was that single
16
conversation.
16:04:37 17
Q Did you have any conversations with Mr. Jordan about
18
it?
19
A I did.
16:04:42 20
Q And how many conversations did you have with
21
Mr. Jordan about that?
22
A I would say at a minimum three.
16:04:51 23
Q Okay. When was the first in relationship to the
24
termination?
25
A I do not recall.
121
16:04:53 1
Q What was said in that first meeting?
2
A I don't recall the specifics, but I remember
3
generally that I shared with him my concerns from the time
4
I became Director of the Department of Corrections to the
5
final communication from Mr. Killgore.
16:05:12 6
Q And so "final communication," is that a reference to
7
his letter to Ms. Miller?
8
A It is.
16:05:20 9
Q Okay. So --
10
MR. LIPPOLD: Just a second.
11
(Counsel conferred with the witness.)
12
MR. LIPPOLD: All right, go.
16:05:27 13
Q BY MR. BUSSE: So this conversation with Mr. Jordan
14
was after the Miller letter.
15
A That is correct.
16:05:37 16
Q And what did he say in response?
17
A Again, I don't remember specifically, but he helped
18
me formulate next steps, again, in his position, asking
19
questions, probing questions, to ensure that I hadn't
20
missed anything in my analysis as I worked toward my
21
decision moving forward.
16:05:57 22
Q In that first meeting, did you say that you wanted to
23
replace Mr. Killgore?
24
A I did not.
16:06:03 25
Q Or terminate him?
122
1
A I did not.
16:06:07 2
Q And how did he help you frame next steps?
3
A I don't remember specifically, but in his role, you
4
know, I used him as a sounding board in processing through
5
some of my concerns.
16:06:25 6
Q Why Mr. Jordan?
7
A He's the director of DAS.
16:06:30 8
Q And what does that have to do with you?
9
A So as the director of DAS, he's also the chief
10
operating officer, and so the governor relies on him to
11
assist in running State operations and State agencies.
16:06:44 12
Q Including DOC?
13
A Correct.
16:06:46 14
Q And so does he have authority over you?
15
A He does not.
16:06:54 16
Q You said that there were approximately three
17
conversations. What was the thrust of the second?
18
A I don't recall specifics, it was just a general
19
evolution of my thinking and planning based on the facts
20
that I had before me.
16:07:11 21
Q And the third?
22
A Same.
16:07:14 23
Q So was any decision reached in any of your
24
conversations with Mr. Jordan?
25
A It was.
123
16:07:20 1
Q And which one?
2
A In the final meeting. And again, just for
3
clarification, there were approximately three
4
conversations.
16:07:29 5
Q What did you say or he say in that final meeting that
6
led to that final decision?
7
A I don't remember specifics, but I remember coming to
8
the conclusion that based on the facts that Mr. Killgore
9
was not going to align with my vision and help me move
10
that organization to the next level and that termination
11
of his employment was the avenue that I was going to
12
proceed with.
16:08:01 13
Q And did you have any conversations with the governor
14
about this decision?
15
A I did not.
16:08:06 16
Q Do you know if Mr. Jordan did?
17
A I do not know.
16:08:10 18
Q Or Ms. Miller?
19
A I do not know.
16:08:12 20
Q Or anyone else at DOC?
21
A For clarification, did anyone else at DOC have
22
conversations with the governor?
16:08:23 23
Q Yes.
24
A Yes, no, not that I know of.
16:08:37 25
Q 126B, is this your e-mail to Mr. Williamson dated
124
1
March 19, 2013?
2
A It is.
16:08:56 3
Q And so Exhibit 127, is this your termination letter
4
of March 13th to Mr. Killgore?
5
A It is.
16:09:15 6
Q And who wrote this letter?
7
A I do not recall. I know that I consulted with DOJ
8
during the decision and in the construction of this
9
letter, but I don't know who I -- I do not recall who
10
authored it.
16:09:41 11
Q So going through what you've included here in the
12
third paragraph, "One example is the PSU report, not the
13
outcome of the report, but how that agreement was
14
administered internally by you."
15
What do you mean by "administered internally"?
16
A Primarily, all of the things that we talked about
17
today; the inability to get PSU to remain within scope,
18
the lack of communication around the issue, and really a
19
report that then produced an outcome that was not what we
20
had hoped for.
16:10:15 21
Q You say, "Another example is your ongoing
22
relationship with AOCE. It is not the outcome of the
23
labor matters, but the fact that relations were allowed to
24
escalate to the point of an unfair labor practice
25
complaint."
125
1
That was one of the bases for the termination
2
decision?
3
A It was.
16:10:39 4
Q And you say, "As a result of some actions you
5
initiated and expressions of lack of trust with OCE
6
management from the union", do you see that there?
7
A No. Please help me find the spot.
16:10:51 8
Q Further on in the same paragraph.
9
A Yes.
16:11:00 10
Q Who expressed lack of trust with OCE management from
11
the union?
12
A Union leadership.
16:11:05 13
Q Who?
14
A I know specifically -- what is his name -- Nick, but
15
I'm forgetting his last name.
16:11:20 16
Q Anyone else?
17
A I know that he's the one that brought forward the
18
concern, but that there were others that were concerned.
16:11:31 19
Q Do you recall anyone else?
20
A He is in leadership, so I don't recall anybody else,
21
but he would be the reason the information would come
22
forward.
16:11:36 23
Q What did he say about that?
24
A Just that there was a complete lack of trust in OCE
25
management from the union --
126
16:11:46 1
Q Do you --
2
A -- that in the process of trying to resolve some of
3
these issues, they weren't trusting what Mr. Killgore and
4
some of his management team would say; that they, in one
5
meeting, would hear -- that one set of plans and then in
6
the next meeting it would be an entirely different set of
7
plans or the follow-through wouldn't be there.
16:12:06 8
Q And when was that expressed?
9
A I don't recall exactly, but it was certainly during
10
the time period of the ULPs.
16:12:16 11
Q The ULP that was eventually settled?
12
A Correct.
16:12:19 13
Q Back in 2012?
14
A Correct.
16:12:22 15
Q And this lack of trust was before that? Before the
16
investigation?
17
A Correct. And ongoing, then, through that year.
16:12:31 18
Q Before the time that you told investigators that it
19
was not your plan to terminate him at that time in
20
October?
21
A Correct.
16:12:37 22
Q And all that had happened before that time?
23
A Correct.
16:12:40 24
Q So had the administration of the PSU contract
25
happened before that time?
127
1
A Correct.
16:12:53 2
Q "...and the outside counsel, how it emerged, how you
3
responded". What do you mean by "how it emerged"?
4
A Just in how I became aware that legal counsel was
5
engaged without consultation of DOJ and that I didn't find
6
out about that early on.
16:13:31 7
Q How about "how you responded"?
8
A For me, it was a lack of personal responsibility; it
9
was citing not -- not having knowledge of the
10
requirements. I remember him continually saying, when I
11
asked why he hired Neil Bryant, for example, that he felt
12
like I needed political cover. I never did understand
13
what that meant, so there just seemed to be a lack of
14
ownership, responsibility, or knowledge of what he had
15
done.
16:14:11 16
Q And the issues pertaining to the hiring of outside
17
counsel, that had occurred before your meeting with
18
investigators; correct?
19
A Correct.
16:14:23 20
Q And when you asked him to terminate the relationship
21
with the attorneys, he did so.
22
A Correct.
16:14:32 23
Q And then second is that "Very recently low staff
24
morale in OCE has been raised directly to me as an issue."
25
Who raised low staff morale in OCE directly to you?
128
1
A Some of the employees that are currently employed by
2
OCE, including the two individuals who presented formal
3
responses that are in your exhibit.
16:15:05 4
Q Well, who said -- who said, "We have low staff
5
morale"?
6
A That was a common theme being brought forward, it
7
just wasn't one specific person. So the two individuals
8
that brought forward formal complaints, as well as others.
16:15:15 9
Q Who -- Please. To get this over with, you know I'm
10
going to have to ask you the names. Please give me the
11
names, if you have them.
12
A Oh, like I said earlier a few minutes ago, I do not
13
recall the names.
16:15:25 14
Q Are there any documents that would list those names?
15
A Yes.
16:15:30 16
Q What documents?
17
A For the formal complaints, the -- the documents have
18
their names on them.
16:15:38 19
Q You mean the exhibits that we've seen today?
20
A Correct.
16:15:41 21
Q Okay. When you say "formal complaints," were there
22
any formal complaints initiated as grievances that went
23
through some formal process with either of those two
24
individuals?
25
A No, those are being investigated. The -- the
129
1
allegations that are coming forward are being investigated
2
in the hostile work environment complaint completely, so
3
those names would be a part of that investigation.
16:16:10 4
Q So is there a hostile work environment complaint that
5
is being investigated now?
6
A Yes.
16:16:15 7
Q As a whole -- as an ongoing -- of Mr. Killgore.
8
A Correct.
16:16:19 9
Q In addition to the Secretary of State audit.
10
A Correct.
16:16:22 11
Q Okay.
12
13
request to have produced any work associated with the
14
hostile work environment complaint that is also under way
15
concerning Mr. Killgore.
16:16:31 16
Q BY MR. BUSSE: Now, the names, please. Are there any
17
names, other than the two that we have exhibits for, that
18
you can recall?
19
A Again, I cannot recall the names.
16:16:45 20
Q Okay. Thank you.
21
Then you say, "...although not completely
22
investigated...." Why would you include something as a
23
termination rationale if it hadn't even been investigated?
24
A For me, it wasn't one singular point or one singular
25
failure, it was a culmination of failures, and that is
130
1
what I was trying to represent in this letter.
16:17:06 2
Q I thought you said earlier that you withhold judgment
3
until you conclude an investigation. Isn't that your
4
policy?
5
A It is, but I believe I felt comfortable drawing a
6
conclusion that there was some level of difficulty inside
7
that agency. To make a legal determination around a
8
hostile work environment is one that would require an
9
investigation.
16:17:36 10
Q And it says, "Finally, in light of the most recent
11
February e-mail from you to the office of the chief
12
operating officer, I see we are not going to resolve the
13
basic differences and vision I have for OCE", do you see
14
that there?
15
A I do.
16:17:50 16
Q Is that the e-mail that we've just gone over in some
17
detail with to --
18
A It is.
16:17:55 19
Q -- his to Sarah Miller?
20
A It is.
16:17:57 21
Q And so is that what you're referring to in that
22
reference in the termination letter?
23
A It is.
16:18:02 24
Q Anything beyond what you've already testified to?
25
A For clarification purposes, anything --
131
16:18:13 1
Q Have you told me everything about that letter that
2
gave you pause that you're referring to in this
3
termination letter?
4
A Yes, everything that I recall today.
16:18:17 5
Q Thank you.
6
Okay, couple more, then we're done. In
7
Exhibit 129 --
8
MR. LIPPOLD: This is 128.
9
MR. BUSSE: Oh, I'm sorry.
10
MR. LIPPOLD: Is that what you wanted?
16:18:40 11
Q BY MR. BUSSE: 128. Is that a document that you're
12
familiar with?
13
A I don't recall seeing this document, but that doesn't
14
mean I haven't read it in the past.
16:18:47 15
Q Do you know what it is? And if you don't, fine.
16
A I do not.
16:18:58 17
Q Okay.
18
A Huh-uh.
19
MR. BUSSE: Okay, I'm going to step outside,
20
we may be done.
21
(There was a pause in the proceedings.)
22
MR. BUSSE: Done.
23
24
(DEPOSITION ADJOURNED AT 4:20 P.M.)
25
* * *
132
1
EXAM INDEX
2
Examination by Page
3
Mr. Busse 3
4
Requests by Mr. Busse
5
The organizational chart of the DOC policy
6
group as of March 2013 12
7
Depose Tami Dohrman 97
8
Any Secretary of State audit of OCE that is
currently under way and any work papers
9
associated therewith and any interviews of
DOC personnel associated therewith 111
10
Any complaints, investigations concerning any
11
complaints, statements, and associated
materials regarding any hostile work
12
environment complaint made formally or
informally about Mr. Killgore or OCE in 2011
13
or 2012 or 2013 120
14
Any work associated with the hostile work
environment complaint that is also under way
15
concerning Mr. Killgore 129
16
17
18
EXHIBIT INDEX
First
19
No. Item Mention
20
Exhibit 38A Copy of an e-mail to Colette Peters
and Mitch Morrow from Robert
21
Killgore dated February 17, 2012 81
22
Exhibit 38B Copy of an e-mail to Colette Peters
23
Killgore dated February 17, 2012 82
24
Exhibit 39 Copy of an e-mail to Mitch Morrow
from Colette Peters dated
25
February 17, 2012 82
133
1
EXHIBIT INDEX (Cont'd)
First
2
No. Item Mention
3
Exhibit 40 Copy of an e-mail to Kelli Ketchum
4
February 20, 2012 82
5
Exhibit 41A Copy of an e-mail to Colette Peters
6
Killgore dated March 15, 2012 83
7
Exhibit 42 Copy of an e-mail to Colette Peters
8
Killgore dated March 16, 2012 83
9
Exhibit 44 Copy of an e-mail to Robert Killgore
from Colette Peters dated April 17,
10
2012 84
11
from Mitch Morrow dated May 4, 2012 84
12
13
from Colette Peters dated July 22,
2012 85
14
Exhibit 48 Copy of an e-mail to Chane Griggs
15
from Colette Peters dated July 22,
2012 87
16
17
from Colette Peters dated August 19,
2012 87
18
19
and Colette Peters from Robert
Killgore dated August 24, 2012 93
20
21
from Mitch Morrow dated August 28,
2012 93
22
23
September 7, 2012 95
24
25
134
1
First
2
No. Item Mention
3
Exhibit 66 Copy of an e-mail to Leonard
Williamson and Chane Griggs from
4
Gary Sims dated September 11, 2012 97
5
from Mitch Morrow dated September 11,
6
2012 98
7
Exhibit 68 Talking points for Colette Peters from
Mitch Morrow 98
8
9
from Mitch Morrow dated October 8,
2012 100
10
Exhibit 83 Transcript of recorded interview of
11
Colette Peters dated October 22,
2012 100
12
Exhibit 84 Transcript of recorded interview of
13
Colette Peters dated October 26,
2012 102
14
15
from Gary Sims dated October 26,
2012 105
16
17
November 4, 2012 106
18
19
November 15, 2012 107
20
21
from Robert Killgore dated
November 16, 2012 107
22
Exhibit 101D Copy of an e-mail to Colette Peters
23
from Leonard Williamson dated
November 21, 2012 112
24
25
135
1
First
2
No. Item Mention
3
from Phil Keisling dated December 7,
4
2012 114
5
and Mitch Morrow from Leonard
6
Williamson dated February 28, 2013 114
7
Exhibit 117 Copy of an e-mail to All DOC
Employees from Colette Peters dated
8
March 1, 2013 117
9
Exhibit 123 Packet of e-mails 118
10
Exhibit 124 Letter to Colette Peters from Stephen
Ryan dated March 5, 2013 118
11
Exhibit 125 Memorandum to Colette Peters from
12
Ron West dated March 7, 2013 120
13
Exhibit 126B Copy of an e-mail to Leonard
Williamson from Colette Peters dated
14
March 19, 2013 124
15
Exhibit 127 Termination letter to Robert
Killgore from Colette Peters dated
16
March 13, 2013 124
17
Exhibit 128 Department of Corrections internal
audit 131
18
Exhibit 131 Copy of an article from the
19
Statesman Journal dated March 21,
2013 24
20
21
22
(Originals and copies of exhibits
23
delivered with transcripts.)
24
* * *
25
136
1
CERTIFICATE
2
I, Kim Nerheim, an Oregon Certified Shorthand
3
Reporter, hereby certify that said witness personally
4
appeared before me at the time and place set forth in the
5
caption hereof; that at said time and place I reported in
6
stenotype all testimony adduced and other oral proceedings
7
had in the foregoing matter; that thereafter my notes were
8
transcribed through computer-aided transcription, under my
9
direction; and that the foregoing pages constitute a full,
10
true and accurate record of all such testimony adduced and
11
oral proceedings had, and of the whole thereof.
12
Witness my hand at Portland, Oregon, this 6th
13
day of October, 2013.
14
15
16
17
__________________________
18
Kim Nerheim
19
Oregon CSR No. 90-0138
20
Expires 9/30/2014
21
Washington CCR No. 0003038
22
Expires 3/28/2014
23
24
25
1
WORD INDEX
<0>
0003038 136:21
<1>
1 6:13, 13 83:3 84:16
97:3 99:1 100:1 106:8
107:23 114:5, 22 135:8
10 105:6
10,000 26:6 30:13
100 134:9, 11
101D 112:23 134:21
102 134:13
105 134:15
106 134:17
107 134:19, 21
108 114:5, 5 135:3
10th 84:17
11 98:4 106:3 134:4, 5
1100 30:12
111 132:9
112 134:23
114 135:4, 6
116 114:11 135:5
1162 1:21 2:9
117 117:24 135:7, 8
118 135:9, 10
12 21:5 23:23 132:6
12:57 1:20
120 132:13 135:12
123 118:2 135:9
124 118:7, 25 119:5, 10
135:10, 14, 16
125 120:5 135:10
126B 123:25 135:13
127 124:3 135:15
128 131:8, 11 135:17
129 131:7 132:15
13 135:16
131 24:22 135:17, 17
13C13825 1:6
13th 76:5, 11 79:10
80:2 124:4
14,500 7:8
14th 83:2
15 133:6 134:19
15th 107:13
16 72:10 133:8 134:21
16th 72:16 83:14
107:19
17 81:16 132:21, 23, 25
133:9
17th 82:3, 11 84:6
19 124:1 133:17 135:14
1993 6:25
1995 6:1, 9
1998 5:19 6:20
1st 117:24
<2>
2 87:11 94:15 114:17
20 1:19 93:3 133:4
2003 5:19
2004 5:9 37:10 97:23
104:17
2006 5:11
2009 4:25
2011 107:24 120:4
132:12
2012 15:17 17:6 25:18
27:3 34:18, 20 41:13, 15
46:8 57:13 61:25 77:15
81:16 82:3, 11 84:6
85:15, 24 87:5 93:19
95:13 98:4 105:6 106:3
107:13 112:24 120:4
126:13 132:13, 21, 23, 25
133:4, 6, 8, 10, 11, 13, 15,
17, 19, 21, 23 134:4, 6, 9,
11, 13, 15, 17, 19, 21, 23
135:4
2013 1:19 12:15 36:4
74:12 79:10 114:12
117:24 118:3 120:4
124:1 132:6, 13 135:6, 8,
10, 12, 14, 16, 19 136:13
2014 136:20, 22
2015 116:16
21 134:23 135:19
21st 112:24
22 133:13, 15 134:11
22nd 52:7 62:11 85:23
87:5
24 133:19 135:19
24th 93:6
26 105:6 134:13, 15
26th 25:5
27 93:19
28 133:21 135:6 136:22
28th 76:10 114:25
<3>
3 25:2 132:3 136:22
3:09 83:2
3:30 112:11
30 136:20
31,000 7:9
38A 81:15 132:20
38B 82:2 132:22
39 82:10 132:24
<4>
4 25:5 99:2 106:3
133:11 134:17
4:00 112:12, 14, 18
4:20 131:24
40 81:12 82:14 133:3
41A 83:1 133:5
42 6:11 83:14 133:7
4300 7:7
436 100:23, 24
44 84:5 133:9
45 84:16 133:11
468 102:5
47 133:11
470 103:6
48 87:1 133:13
<5>
5 112:10 135:10
5,000 55:6
503-248-0504 2:5
503-947-4700 2:10
521 2:4
56 87:10 133:15
59 93:5 133:17
5th 53:4 118:3
<6>
60 93:18 133:19
61 95:2 133:21
621 2:4
66 97:2 134:3
67 98:3 134:5
68 98:17 134:7
6th 4:20, 21 136:12
<7>
7 133:23 135:3, 12
71 6:13
73 79:10
73-day 79:24
73-three 80:1
74 99:25 100:1 134:7
7th 46:15 95:13 100:1
<8>
8 114:12 134:9
81 132:21
82 132:23, 25 133:4
83 100:20 133:6, 8
134:9
84 102:2 133:10, 11
134:11
85 133:13
87 105:5 133:15, 17
134:13
89 106:2 134:15
<9>
9 136:20
90-0138 136:19
93 133:19, 21
95 133:23
96 107:12 134:17
97 107:18, 19 132:7
134:4, 19
97205 2:4
97301 2:9
98 6:2 134:6, 7
<A>
ability 51:17 53:20
71:15
able 10:22 34:2 41:19
53:21 67:15
Absolutely 44:3 89:7
91:21 104:2, 5
abuse 99:5
academic 75:18, 25
accede 75:22
account 8:17 14:21
89:4, 12
accountable 28:15
accounts 7:17
accurate 136:10
accurately 72:12
acknowledgment 94:18
acted 58:14, 15
acting 57:1, 25
action 93:25 103:24
actions 125:4
active 79:14
actively 107:9
activities 62:3 65:1, 18
69:24 95:19
activity 93:12, 14
actual 54:5, 14
addition 129:9
address 3:11, 12, 20
adduced 136:6, 10
ADJOURNED 131:24
administered 124:14, 15
administration 126:24
administrative 111:9
administrator 5:9 37:11
54:6, 13, 15, 16 55:17
56:3, 24 74:10 76:21
116:25 117:3
advance 80:18, 18
advanced 74:5
advancement 80:12
advert 9:25
advertising 40:22
advice 14:17 21:15
22:19, 21 23:6 39:3
62:21 63:24 67:10
81:20 90:17
advised 62:1 89:2
advising 50:21
advisory 61:14 73:2
95:12
affairs 5:9 37:10
AFL-CIO 59:6 61:15
86:12
afloat 30:16
afternoon 114:25
AG 81:17 82:4 83:18
age 6:10
agencies 38:22 40:1
42:16 53:19, 21 115:13
122:11
agency 12:23 13:20
14:1 26:4 29:22 30:21
46:24 53:15 54:15 55:1,
18, 22 57:21 72:4, 6
79:18 97:11, 12 130:7
agency, 99:12
ago 30:21 68:9 104:17
128:12
agree 27:15 33:18 41:9
47:1 75:16 88:18 90:22
agreed 38:4 40:16, 24
56:7 75:1, 14
agreeing 39:9
agreement 43:1 63:2
75:3 82:15 90:19 116:1,
6 124:13
Ah 63:9
ahead 16:10 19:17 22:8
26:13, 20 27:22 32:5
33:11 44:7 49:20 50:10
52:12 55:9 67:20 90:10
91:17 92:8 103:19
104:15 106:19 109:9
111:13 117:18
alerting 70:11
align 26:23 123:9
2
all 7:15 14:10 15:13
19:22 20:11, 16 28:10
31:14, 16, 23, 24 37:19
38:16 42:5 45:10 56:8
63:1, 22 65:6 69:24
77:3 79:6, 22 81:15
83:2 111:7 121:12
124:16 126:22 135:7
136:6, 10
allegation 66:4
allegations 29:13 70:18
119:3 129:1
alleviate 38:11
allow 92:4
allowed 124:23
allows 53:20
allude 118:9
alone, 58:18
alternatives 23:22
amalgamate 65:14
amount 49:16 63:11, 13,
15 68:12, 17, 18 69:3, 5
amounts 63:18
analysis 23:6 58:4
121:20
annual 61:25 108:9
answer 23:11 32:14, 19
47:5 55:10 56:16 61:2
answered 54:19 55:9
answers 78:7, 10
anticipation 38:16
anybody 45:1 58:18
59:21 60:7 69:18
110:20 111:24 119:4
125:20
Anyway 74:15
AOCE 59:14, 25 61:8
86:11 105:15 106:22
108:20 124:22
Apart 26:9 117:21
apologize 95:3 109:7
apparently 38:7 42:21
APPEARANCES 2:1
appeared 136:4
appears 82:24 95:18
apply 66:20
appointed 38:15
appointment 7:14
approach 13:2, 2 41:9
approached 13:4
appropriate 27:14 29:14
39:25 56:15 99:4
appropriately 29:18
39:10
approval 85:4, 15, 21
107:24 109:21
approve 59:5
approved 51:24
approving 51:25
approximately 5:3 7:7,
9 19:22 30:12 70:14
122:16 123:3
approximation 19:23
April 5:8 84:6, 17 133:9
area 43:4 84:9
argumentative 49:20
67:20 90:9 91:4, 20
92:7
Armenakis 49:11, 16
array 15:9 23:16
arrival 15:21
arrive 8:13
arrived 5:8 97:23
104:17
arriving 107:9
article 25:4 135:17
Aside 115:16
asked 21:22, 25 30:10
39:8 51:17 55:9 59:15,
18 60:16 66:12 73:1
90:16, 25 108:19 127:11,
20
asking 22:16 23:18
52:15, 22, 25 75:10
76:13 90:13 94:24 98:7
106:23 121:18
assist 80:13 122:11
assistance 10:6 113:1
Assistant 5:5, 10 6:7
13:10, 16 18:23 19:7, 12
62:22 63:3 70:10 79:20
99:24
assisting 101:14
associate 108:18
associated 110:20 111:4,
5 120:1 129:13 132:9, 9,
11, 14
Assuage 38:10
assume 64:7 100:15
assumed 38:25 85:16
assuming 37:13 41:12,
15 100:11
attached 84:19 87:16
attaches 106:5
attachments 83:6
attainable 10:11
attempted 74:19
attendance 3:16
attention 8:8 40:10
81:10 113:25
Attorney 2:6, 11 21:14,
17 22:17 23:7
attorneys 45:16 85:18
107:16 127:21
audit 61:25 62:2 108:9
109:25 110:5, 9, 15, 21,
24 111:2 129:9 132:8
135:17
auditor 62:3
August 16:16 28:6 62:8,
11 93:6, 19 133:17, 19,
21
authenticate 81:5
authored 124:10
Authority 4:23 38:14
48:11 53:25 54:11, 21
55:14, 23, 25 56:5, 17, 18,
23 57:6, 15 70:7 71:13,
19 122:14
authorized 76:2 85:12
available 23:4
avenue 123:11
avenues 29:12
aware 7:14, 19 36:13
49:9 50:20 60:9 62:4, 7
71:4 85:11 108:3, 6
127:4
<B>
Bachelor's 6:16, 21
back 5:19 6:8 12:4
27:5, 18 31:17 32:17
73:14, 23, 25 75:15
92:14, 20 95:9 97:10
126:13
background 30:22 43:6,
8 67:25 68:14 94:19
bad 104:13, 16
bags 96:2
band 88:11 89:17, 21
90:22
bankrupt 30:22
bargain 106:22
Based 26:16 42:13 80:5
86:8 115:21 122:19
123:8
bases 125:1
basic 130:13
basis 41:23 72:16
119:20
becoming 60:19 71:1
began 6:1 27:2 72:20
beginning 33:23
begun 29:22 34:13
118:10
behalf 1:14
behavior 9:3, 11 20:17
89:25
believe 4:20 9:11 11:5,
5, 7 16:8 17:2 22:23
23:6 33:21, 24, 25 40:20
42:8 43:15, 24 50:19
53:24 54:10 56:8, 17, 25
58:4 59:11 70:15, 20, 24
76:20 94:16 103:10
104:10 116:8, 22 120:15
130:5
believed 16:21 17:6
59:23
Benedict 6:22
benefit 95:19
benefits 59:9 111:21
best 14:8
bet 100:4, 5
beyond 45:15 80:8
89:20 130:24
birth 6:12
blank 18:16
board 34:14 59:18
60:14, 17 86:11, 13, 16,
19, 22, 24 117:1, 4 122:4
body 73:24
boiler 78:1
bonding 97:18
borne 70:1
bothered 44:14
bottom 97:2 99:8 102:5
103:7
Boy 37:22, 22 40:15, 19
41:1, 4, 7 43:19 101:4, 9
break 21:15 47:7 81:2
93:1
Breck 6:4
briefed 38:13 78:4
94:12 109:1, 15, 16, 19
briefing 19:9 23:9
38:16 98:6
briefly 97:8
bring 29:12 41:18
bringing 48:3 59:19
brought 8:8 36:19 40:9
41:17, 20 42:23 46:21
61:6 63:11 65:7 66:5
70:18 71:13 125:17
128:6, 8
Bruce 108:17, 20, 23
109:1
Bryant 50:20, 23, 24
51:7, 11, 13, 18, 24 62:6,
25, 25 64:22 67:5, 11, 14,
18, 24 68:20 69:4, 14
83:20 84:23 85:2 87:11
93:13 95:22 96:13
107:24 127:11
Bryant's 95:16
bucks 69:1, 1
Buddy 27:11, 12 28:19
37:21 39:13 42:19 65:5
87:13 96:19
building 70:13 72:24
97:17 103:25
Bureau 5:24
business 3:12 26:5
30:11 33:1 34:4 40:23
41:9 47:24 54:15 75:9
79:20, 21 80:12, 18 94:3
108:7, 18
BUSSE 2:3, 3 3:6, 14,
18, 21, 25 4:2, 2 12:13,
16 16:15 19:19 21:18,
25 22:3, 5, 8, 18, 23
23:13 24:19, 23 26:16,
25 31:9 32:8, 16, 17, 22
33:14 44:10 47:5, 10
49:22 50:1, 12 52:14
55:11 61:2 68:6 81:4
83:1 85:9, 14 90:14
91:10, 17 92:4, 19 93:2,
5 94:10 95:3, 6, 10, 11
96:11, 12, 25 97:2 99:18
100:25 101:2, 8 103:22
104:23 105:13 107:5
109:6, 11 111:1, 6, 15
112:12, 16, 21, 23 117:20
119:24 120:5 121:13
129:12, 16 131:9, 11, 19,
22 132:3, 3
<C>
CAFR 16:12, 15, 20, 25
50:25 51:5, 8 62:9, 16,
18, 24 63:2, 14, 19 65:6,
8, 11, 14 67:4, 23 68:1, 5,
7, 10, 13 69:18 88:15, 16
93:11, 19 95:18 96:14,
16, 18, 22 108:9
calendar 74:24
call 21:14 55:17 70:10
74:22 81:10 96:6
called 12:10 49:11 93:8
3
calls 32:5 44:7 47:4
94:9 96:10 109:9
111:13
Cam 74:2
cancel 73:2
capability 85:5
capacity 4:15 5:14, 22
6:6 9:22 19:7, 10
caption 136:5
captured 102:20 103:1
capturing 18:5
care 38:10
career 58:25 59:12
71:9 74:1 86:12, 24
Case 1:6 4:3 8:19 18:2
20:20 30:11 33:1 47:24
54:16 75:9 80:12
cases 9:9 29:12 37:20
category 41:2 77:16
cause 59:14
caused 28:24 113:11
116:22
CCCF 74:2
CCR 136:21
center 58:25 59:12
74:2 84:10 86:13, 24
certain 66:1 74:20
83:21 104:9
certainly 39:19 58:22
72:2 73:21 74:4 76:15
103:9 104:20 116:1
126:9
CERTIFICATE 136:1
Certified 1:18 136:2
certify 136:3
Chane 11:23 12:16
13:2, 4 14:2 87:2
133:13 134:3
change 58:3 67:16 89:1
92:10 111:17, 18
changed 33:13 58:21
68:14 83:12 91:1 97:25
changes 12:5 102:15
changing 57:14
channel 71:24
chart 12:11, 14 57:14
58:5 83:7 132:3
chastise 49:16
chief 71:17, 18 122:9
130:11
Chris 105:14, 19
CIRCUIT 1:1
circumstances 22:24
citing 127:9
civil 71:1
claim 23:2 65:25
clarification 9:16 19:18
37:4 43:13 48:21 51:7
52:13 54:2 62:14 63:7
79:25 82:16 87:22
90:16 106:20 108:22
116:9 123:3, 21 130:25
clarify 9:9
clarity 16:13 36:21
42:12, 17 44:22, 24 45:4
clear 8:6 9:10 13:18
15:7 23:18 34:7 56:21
57:5 80:3 90:4, 25 91:5,
8 96:17 103:8 115:9
clearly 9:3 30:13 90:2,
20 99:20
client 21:14, 15, 17
22:17 43:25
closure 105:19
codifying 102:16
Coffee 59:1 86:10
cold 48:12
COLETTE 1:13, 17 3:1,
8 84:19 93:9 95:18
105:17 132:20, 22, 24
133:3, 5, 7, 9, 13, 15, 17,
19, 19, 23 134:5, 7, 7, 11,
13, 13, 17, 19, 19, 21
135:3, 5, 7, 10, 10, 13, 15
C-o-l-e-t-t-e 3:8
collaboration 104:19
collaborative 99:23
College 6:22
collegial 97:15
Colorado 5:13 6:2, 18
come 18:22 26:4 30:10
37:12 48:20 80:13
92:13, 20 93:2 111:21
118:22 125:21
comfortable 68:3, 4
130:5
coming 34:14 37:9
60:17 103:9 123:7
129:1
comings 38:21
commencing 1:19 116:13
comments 117:20
commissioned 61:25
committee 73:13, 24
77:5 86:3
common 61:7 98:21
113:6 128:6
commun 102:9
communicate 17:6 46:10
communicated 9:4
16:21 29:16
communicating 42:16
communication 121:5
124:18
communication, 121:6
communications 31:21
74:8 113:7
community 7:10 59:11
complaint 71:25 103:9
119:11, 13, 20, 23 120:2
124:25 129:2, 4, 14
132:12, 14
complaints 118:10, 17,
22 119:14, 17, 18, 25
120:1 128:8, 17, 22
132:9, 11
complaints, 128:21
complete 8:5 10:23, 23
16:4 27:17 88:19
125:24
completed 35:10, 15
70:6 112:11
completely 113:21 129:2,
21
completing 8:12
compliance 83:22
Complied 25:3 101:1
compliment 86:9
complimenting 86:6
87:7
comply 17:24 51:19
components 99:3
comport 116:18
computer-aided 136:8
computers 72:24
concern 41:21 42:18
44:19 46:11 64:5 69:25
101:15 125:18
concerned 29:17 44:21
71:14 73:15 125:18
concerning 26:11 28:2
36:10 120:1 129:15
132:9, 15
concerns 3:19 27:9, 10,
18 28:11 29:4, 22 36:14,
16, 18, 19 37:4, 12, 15, 18,
25 38:10, 20 39:5 41:17,
18, 20 42:25 43:18 45:2,
23 46:2, 20 59:19 61:5,
11 63:10 65:7 70:5
101:4, 9, 13 121:3 122:5
conclude 116:3 130:3
concluded 34:7 42:12
118:13
conclusion 8:9 67:24
70:17 77:10 109:24
111:19 123:8 130:6
conclusions 115:21
conduct 8:9 9:10
conducted 119:6
conducting 110:15
confer 18:14
conferred 31:5 121:11
confess 100:17
confident 15:13 63:24
115:4
confidential 3:22 83:20
conflict 83:18 86:25
connected 97:13
connection 4:3 119:5
consider 8:23 99:11
109:24 111:15
consideration 44:2
constitute 136:9
Constitution 7:15
Constitutional 36:22
37:5 39:20 58:3 64:2
construction 124:8
consult 21:1, 15 58:2, 18
consultation 21:19, 23
23:17, 19, 22, 25 24:2
100:9 127:5
consultations 11:12, 18
consulted 10:25, 25 19:6
20:9, 10, 19 22:2 45:11,
15 58:6, 7 91:6 124:7
consulting 50:25 51:8,
12 91:3
contact 67:17
contacts 14:6
contains 80:16
Cont'd 133:1 134:1
135:1
context 21:19 64:5
continually 30:10 127:10
continue 4:8, 10 22:6
25:14 91:20 112:22
continued 35:13, 22
76:17
continuing 41:16 80:4
contract 33:7, 8 47:18,
19, 22 50:7 51:15 53:12,
13 59:6 61:15 65:20
75:8 86:15, 18, 20, 22
107:15 126:24
contribution 40:16 41:4
control 3:23
controls 99:4
convened 77:8 78:11
conversation 12:18
13:24 14:2, 4, 4, 6 15:16
16:6, 15, 19, 25 19:14, 15
23:24 25:14 27:13
28:10 31:1 33:24 34:3
38:24 39:4 42:11, 24
43:1, 6 46:5 49:23
55:18, 20 56:14 64:8, 9
65:18 67:13, 22, 24
68:19 69:4 70:2 74:21
76:12 79:2 80:10 88:3,
10, 12, 14, 15, 25 89:13
90:19 92:14, 17, 22
95:23, 25 96:7, 12 102:9
104:8 105:2 106:23
113:9, 19 115:5, 7, 14, 20
117:17, 21 120:12, 16
121:13
conversations 12:21
14:9, 15, 23 15:1, 6, 13,
19 16:11, 24 17:9, 12, 14
18:2, 5, 11 19:20 20:1, 5
21:8 23:1, 15, 23, 25
24:3, 6, 11, 14 25:20
26:2 32:10, 25 33:3, 12
34:1, 15, 20, 25 35:1, 4, 6,
9, 13, 18, 19, 21, 21 36:1
42:11, 14 44:25 45:1, 3,
8, 9, 19 46:8 61:3 66:13
77:3, 18 78:17, 23 89:15
90:1 102:11, 13, 17, 19
103:11 113:20 116:23
120:17, 20 122:17, 24
123:4, 13, 22
converting 84:9
convey 15:22 32:11
conveyed 17:15
convince 34:2
convinced 43:24
copies 135:22
copy 24:20 93:21 95:4
132:20, 22, 24 133:3, 5, 7,
9, 11, 11, 13, 15, 17, 19, 21
134:3, 5, 7, 13, 15, 17, 19,
21 135:3, 5, 7, 13, 17
copying 87:2 106:14
correct 8:2, 11 25:12
28:21, 24, 25 33:15, 16
34:19 37:3 42:23 50:22
51:2, 3 53:13, 14, 16, 17
4
54:12 60:5 63:25 64:7,
11 67:1 71:21 74:12, 16
76:6 79:5 82:9 83:9, 10,
12, 13 84:6, 7, 17, 18, 24,
25 86:7 87:8 90:24
93:22, 23 94:4, 22 98:12,
13, 15, 16 100:2 101:11,
16, 17 102:3, 21, 25
103:3, 4, 14 105:25
106:1, 3, 4, 6, 16 107:10
108:4, 5, 16 114:9
115:23 117:25 121:15
122:13 126:12, 14, 17, 21,
23 127:1, 18, 19, 22
128:20 129:8, 10
corrected 116:19
CORRECTIONS 1:7
4:14 5:6, 8 7:6 13:19
16:13 17:11 26:3, 23
28:17 30:19, 20 36:10
37:10 38:15 39:1, 15, 17
40:8, 13, 17 41:22 42:1,
4 53:23, 24 54:7, 18, 20,
24 55:5, 25 56:10, 19
58:19 60:20 65:17
66:16 72:24 97:9 121:4
135:17
correctly 28:8 38:12
44:12 118:16
cost 100:11
council 61:15 73:3
95:12
counsel 22:12, 14 23:13
24:19 31:5 85:11, 12
95:3 120:5 121:11
127:2, 4, 17
counsel's 72:10
counterproposal 84:20
COUNTY 1:2
couple 70:15 131:6
course 11:17 16:5 54:9
77:9 94:2
COURT 1:1, 21 2:9
23:12
cover 127:12
create 34:4 86:23
created 36:20 118:13, 19
creating 44:24 57:19
58:17 97:15 117:1
Creek 59:1 86:11
Crimes 5:24
criminal 5:15, 16 6:15
9:11 20:16 66:5 70:22,
24 89:25 93:11, 14
113:14, 24 114:3
crisis 5:23
crossed 12:25
CSR 136:19
culmination 129:25
current 99:3
currently 4:13 110:6
111:3 128:1 132:8
customer 43:25
cuttin 26:17
cutting 26:21
<D>
DAS 122:7, 9
date 4:20 6:12 11:16
46:17 53:5 72:15, 17, 25
74:3, 13, 17 76:7 109:20
dated 82:11 84:5 85:23
87:3, 5 93:19 95:13
98:4 112:24 114:12, 25
123:25 132:21, 23, 24
133:3, 6, 8, 9, 11, 13, 15,
17, 19, 21, 23 134:4, 5, 9,
11, 13, 15, 17, 19, 21, 23
135:3, 6, 7, 10, 12, 13, 15,
19
dates 11:13 52:6 73:1
day 80:1, 5 92:12
136:13
days 11:8 72:19, 23
79:10
dead 48:12
dealing 15:10
decade 30:17
December 5:19 35:11
78:19 135:3
decided 10:13, 15
decision 8:22 10:17, 19
11:3, 4, 9, 11, 13, 20 12:1
29:23 31:16 67:16
86:11 97:4 108:10
111:16 112:1 117:16
121:21 122:23 123:6, 14
124:8 125:2
decisions 10:24 12:19
declare 3:16
dedication 94:19, 20
Defendant 1:8 2:11
deficiencies 8:1
definitely 8:19
degree 6:15, 16 113:18,
21
deliberated 14:5 24:16
delivered 135:23
demand 106:22
demerits 111:25
Denver 5:21
deny 46:22 48:5, 14, 16
denying 47:17 49:12
52:21
DEPARTMENT 1:7, 21
2:8 4:14 5:6, 8, 21 7:6,
12, 23 16:13 20:18, 18,
21 23:14 24:11 30:20
33:22 36:9 37:9 38:15
39:1, 16 40:3, 8, 13 42:1
43:14 45:12, 13 48:20
49:7 51:14 52:8, 16, 17
53:24 54:17, 20, 24 55:5,
24 56:19 58:19 60:19
66:15 71:2 72:13, 23
74:16 97:9, 23 104:17,
20 121:4 135:17
departure 37:16
depend 29:15
depending 29:13
depends 8:19
depose 97:1 132:7
DEPOSITION 1:13, 16
23:11 131:24
deputy 18:4, 4 45:8
63:7 70:2 94:3 98:21
104:9 107:1 109:15, 17
describe 99:21
described 28:19 56:20
82:21 115:21
describes 110:12
describing 56:22 96:2
description 115:16
designated 53:19
desire 33:4, 14 75:8
desired 34:9
detail 130:17
detailed 81:9
determination 30:1
42:13 56:3 63:12 130:7
determining 8:17
develop 79:19
developed 50:22
developing 7:20 36:24
39:22
dictate 55:19 56:6
difference 92:3
differences 130:13
different 17:13 22:7
27:6 29:12 55:11 90:8
126:6
difficult 111:8, 17, 18
difficulty 101:24 130:6
direct 7:9 48:11 53:25
56:19 60:11 79:22
directed 56:9
direction 12:22 17:10,
13, 24 18:12 26:8, 10
27:24 57:4 73:12
115:12 136:9
directive 57:2
directly 9:16, 18, 20
38:12 45:23 46:3, 19
63:8 127:24, 25
director 4:16, 23 5:5, 10
7:15 9:16, 18, 20 13:10,
16 18:4, 23 19:7, 12
23:8 25:24 34:12 36:18
37:2, 14 38:14, 15, 17, 18,
18 40:7 45:9 51:25
54:10, 11, 17, 20, 21, 23
55:5, 6, 13, 24 56:1, 10,
18 60:10, 19 62:22 63:3,
7 70:2 71:1, 12 72:7
75:2 83:8 95:18 97:25
98:1 104:9 109:17
116:10, 25 117:4 121:4
122:7, 9
directors 79:20 99:24
directorship 37:13 39:1
41:12, 15
disagree 23:6 99:18, 19
discipline 8:15, 18 9:25
18:8, 13
disciplined 9:14, 17, 23
disclose 96:16
disclosed 62:2
disclosing 96:18
disclosure 39:23 67:4
disclosures 95:18 96:14
disconnect 34:16 97:9
disconnected 57:21
75:13 97:14, 14 104:11
disconnection 104:21
discover 95:19
discuss 12:17 15:5, 9
19:15 67:21 69:23
87:20, 23 106:15, 21
discussed 45:18 46:18
64:17 67:3 84:20
108:10 120:13
discussing 13:12
discussion 4:1 32:8
98:19
discussions 50:7, 17
95:17
disengaged 104:7, 22
disengaged, 104:1, 10
dispute 72:16, 22 73:1
93:16
distance 111:8
division 13:11 99:11, 20
divisions 58:1
DOC 12:15 15:21 19:4
20:13 34:14 42:16
46:12, 22 54:10 59:5
60:4 82:15 83:2 94:25
95:17 98:2 99:9, 9
111:4 116:10, 25 117:4
122:12 123:20, 21 132:3,
9 135:7
DOC's 57:15
document 12:7, 10
24:24 78:13, 16 110:9,
12 120:6, 6 131:11, 13
documents 31:19 80:22
81:6, 7, 8 128:14, 16, 17
Dohrman 63:4, 8 64:13
68:2 96:2, 12 97:1
132:7
doing 21:20 26:17 28:8
47:24 51:5 58:14, 19
71:16 81:1, 3 85:2, 3, 5
106:14 112:3 113:5
DOJ 11:1 19:5 21:10,
25 22:2, 12, 14, 21 23:7,
7, 9, 18, 24 39:24 43:11,
15 52:19 53:1 72:10
83:22 84:1 85:12, 12, 15,
21 109:21, 24 113:12
118:6 124:7 127:5
DOJ's 85:4
dollars 69:9 86:15
dome 97:4, 7 103:25
104:7, 24 105:3 111:7,
22
donation 37:21 43:20
D-o-r-h-m-a-n 96:24
dotted 57:14 58:24
83:8, 11
doubt 8:25 78:17 89:5,
7, 13 91:15, 21 103:18
dozen 20:10
Dr 53:7
draft 75:14 82:15
113:8, 17
drafts 113:2
drawing 18:16 130:5
5
drawn 13:24
drive 73:23 77:5
dropped 60:2
due 111:8
duress 66:1, 20
duties 7:5
<E>
earlier 11:1, 2 42:14, 23
43:18 68:18 71:9 82:3
83:18 84:25 87:12
88:13 95:24 96:17 97:8
128:12 130:2
early 11:6, 15 16:12
27:3 34:17 36:19 50:2
61:6 127:6
Easling 53:7
Ecotex 51:1, 12 84:17,
20, 24 108:3
educate 96:15
education 6:14 66:17
effected 11:9
efficiencies 74:7
eight 72:19 112:17
either 7:8 15:12 28:1,
13 37:22 49:4 64:12
128:23
elements 70:25
em 54:4
e-mail 18:6 28:6 29:8
31:20 32:24 70:3 76:19
80:16 81:15, 19, 23 82:2,
7, 10, 13, 14, 18 83:1, 14
84:5 85:23 87:1, 12
88:19 93:5, 17, 18 95:11,
15 98:3 99:25 100:7, 9,
16 105:5, 23 106:2, 10,
12, 20, 25 107:4, 12, 19
108:7 112:23 114:6, 11,
17, 22 115:1, 9, 18, 21
116:1, 7, 11 117:24
123:25 130:11, 16
132:20, 22, 24 133:3, 5, 7,
9, 11, 11, 13, 15, 17, 19, 21
134:3, 5, 7, 13, 15, 17, 19,
21 135:3, 5, 7, 13
e-mails 16:24 32:22
102:17, 21 118:2 135:9
emerged 127:2, 3
employ 32:3
employed 4:13, 17 128:1
employee 8:4, 7 19:8, 9
84:9
employees 7:7, 24 9:17,
23 20:17 41:22 42:4
71:15 83:2 119:15
128:1 135:7
employing 30:12
employment 10:15 49:7
123:11
empower 79:17
empowered 117:1
empowerment 79:17
encouraging 79:19
engage 9:10 34:3 39:15,
16 53:21 56:13 67:13,
22 74:10 79:20 113:6
engaged 34:13, 24 38:23
127:5
engagement 104:18
engaging 13:24 40:18
102:9
ensure 3:16 44:22 54:8,
24 59:16 121:19
Enterprise 13:19 17:11
26:3, 24 28:18 30:19
39:15 40:18 53:23 54:7
entire 10:23 35:4, 22
entirely 126:6
entirety 35:13
entities 34:3, 8 77:11
95:20 99:10
entitled 17:16
entity 57:24 99:21
entry 101:12 102:5
103:6
environment 29:23
59:20 118:9, 14, 18
120:2 129:2, 4, 14 130:8
132:12, 14
equal 99:22 104:11
equally 90:15
equate 99:5
err 12:23
error 91:14
escalate 124:24
established 79:16
estimate 14:8 21:5 32:7
ethical 75:22
ethical, 75:23
evaluation 26:10, 15
83:21
event 8:4 27:19 40:20,
21 44:4 58:11
events 35:25 74:8
eventually 60:2 79:7
126:11
everybody 75:3
evidence 33:11
evolution 122:19
exact 11:13, 16 46:17
72:15 74:13
exactly 36:17 89:19
100:6 113:23 126:9
EXAM 132:1
EXAMINATION 3:5
132:2
example 27:9, 23 28:22
44:17 55:3, 16 90:5, 6,
18 124:12, 21 127:11
examples 44:20 46:1
excited 75:11, 12
exciting 84:12
exclude 50:6 53:9 74:4
Excuse 27:22 32:14
35:20 52:16 63:6
executive 13:14 18:1
55:18, 21 70:10 72:24
86:2 92:13 104:12, 19
111:22 113:7
exhibit 24:18, 22 81:15
82:5, 10, 14 83:1, 14
84:5 87:1, 10 93:18
95:2 97:2 98:3, 17
99:25 100:20 102:2
105:5 106:2 107:12, 18,
19 114:5, 11 117:24
118:7, 25 119:5 120:5, 8
124:3 128:3 131:7
132:18, 20, 22, 24 133:1,
3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 11, 13, 15, 17,
19, 21 134:1, 3, 5, 7, 7, 9,
11, 13, 15, 17, 19, 21
135:1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 10, 10, 13,
15, 17, 17
exhibits 128:19 129:17
135:22
existing 84:9
exists 78:14
expand 30:17 32:20
75:12
expansion 32:9, 10, 12
expect 64:10, 12, 13
79:22 92:20 110:7
expectations 25:15, 21
expected 25:24
expend 56:24
expending 54:14
expenditure 36:10 54:5
55:14 56:1, 6, 9, 19, 22
57:6 89:9
expenditures 37:15 38:3
45:24 47:13, 22 52:14,
17, 20 53:1, 25 54:3
66:1 69:19
expenses 42:19 43:7
49:13 65:6 87:13 93:11
experience 9:12 67:25
94:19
expert 63:19 96:15
expertise 113:10
Expires 136:20, 22
explain 39:7
explained 63:6, 10 89:20
explanation 42:22
exploring 88:21
expressed 36:14 114:8
125:10 126:8
expressing 46:11
expression 80:17 90:23
expressions 125:5
extend 11:18 46:8
extent 23:1 71:10 81:9
external 48:8
<F>
face 65:10
facilitate 97:17
fact 25:9 44:23 47:12
65:13, 14 103:8 118:15
124:23
factor 44:1
factors 8:17, 23
facts 8:21 31:15, 18
33:11 63:1 72:22
122:19 123:8
factual 119:20
failure 129:25
failures 129:25
fair 8:2, 9
fairly 7:24 115:3
faith 7:24 39:16
fall 5:19 6:1 27:3
34:20, 22 41:2 61:12
77:15 108:18
false 109:13
familiar 64:14 131:12
family 39:18 101:14
far 111:22
fashion 57:25 77:12
February 4:18, 19, 20, 21
16:17, 18, 20 35:23, 24
46:15 50:2 52:4, 7 80:2
81:16 82:3, 11 114:12,
25 130:11 132:21, 23, 25
133:4 135:6
feedback 26:9 39:3
feel 73:11 92:12 94:17
feeling 27:23 77:23
78:12, 20 91:23 104:11
feelings, 78:22
fell 39:19
felons 7:9
felt 41:24 127:11 130:5
fifth 116:17
figure 12:24 21:10
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figures 69:10
figuring 30:17, 18 57:20
filed 4:4 59:24 60:4, 7
files 60:11
final 76:19 99:14 112:1
121:5, 6 123:2, 5, 6
finalized 34:24, 25
Finally 130:10
finances 48:1
financially 30:16
find 16:13 17:16
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finding 111:7
fine 3:25 92:2 131:15
finish 15:25
finished 80:23
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fired 60:7
firm 110:18
first 3:2 4:20 8:9 13:6
14:11 15:20 16:6 23:24
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134:1 135:1
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101:24 102:17 113:8
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6
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forgetting 125:15
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forward 16:14 29:12
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116:11
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Friday 1:19 93:6
front 24:24
frustrated 27:1, 2 88:24
frustrating 28:4, 20
80:7 90:15, 17
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78:3 80:4, 17 88:13
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full 3:7 8:9 39:23 90:7
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Fund 7:17 46:12, 19, 23,
25 53:21
fund-raiser 101:5, 10
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funds 36:11, 23 39:10,
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<G>
gained 69:16, 20
gap 63:18
garnering 8:22
Gary 18:23 105:5, 16,
16, 17, 19 109:1 134:4,
15
gather 8:21 11:2 73:14
gathered 63:1
General 5:5, 10 7:17
20:12, 13, 14 22:18
28:13 29:14 45:11
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61:3 88:2, 7, 23 115:8,
20 121:3
generated 7:16
getting 27:24 103:25
104:6 113:16 118:10
gist 116:4
give 3:12 8:1 10:9
26:10, 14 48:10 55:3
74:5 93:10 128:10
given 23:7 56:25 58:3
65:14 87:9 99:2 120:5
giving 3:20 26:9 44:18
glad 84:10
go 3:24 12:4 15:3
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23:23 25:10 26:3, 13, 20,
24 27:18, 22 28:12 32:5
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8 67:20 68:10 71:22
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91:17 92:7 93:3 96:22
103:19 104:15 106:19
109:9 111:13 112:7, 9
116:20 117:3, 18 121:12
goes 25:13
going 22:15 23:10
24:17 33:1 44:19 54:1
77:1, 3 81:8 83:17
86:14 90:12 92:19
112:11 123:9, 11 124:11
128:10 130:12 131:19
goings 38:21
good 4:8, 8 7:24 18:4
39:16 40:20, 22 41:9
59:8 60:23 69:24 82:12
84:13 92:2 102:16
112:15 113:11
goods 42:3
goodwill 39:16, 20 40:1
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governor 7:2 122:10
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Gower 11:23 19:11, 18,
20, 25 20:4 24:15
graduated 6:20
Great 33:19 59:19 77:1
82:1, 25
grievances 128:22
Griggs 11:23 12:16
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87:2 133:13 134:3
group 10:25 11:12, 22,
25 12:2, 15 13:22 57:22
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78:3, 6, 10, 11 79:9, 15,
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grow 80:4
Guard 101:20
guide 73:24
<H>
halfway 101:2
hallways 97:19
hand 42:2 48:12 136:12
handful 119:14
handle 50:13
handling 106:3, 5
happen 44:23 92:10
happened 18:5 30:22
76:9, 23 101:21, 23
126:22, 25
happening 77:14
happens 74:6
happy 4:6 67:21 88:7
hard 87:8 96:19
harm 72:3
head 4:10 101:7 114:21
headed 17:12
heading 27:24
healthy 27:13
hear 126:5
heard 22:4 28:2 37:14
39:4 100:8
hearing 29:22
held 4:1
help 10:6 18:17 19:5
73:24 75:9 77:5 79:17
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helped 21:9 121:17
helpful 55:4
helping 12:24
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Herron 27:11, 12 28:20
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67:5 87:13 96:19
101:14
Herron's 37:21
hesitate 4:5
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Hey 29:3 103:24
Hi 84:19
high 111:21
higher 70:7
highly 9:13
hire 26:5 48:11 49:2
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hired 48:19 51:14
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22 109:14 127:11
hires 66:18, 21
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history 9:8 21:9 60:5
66:14 94:19
Hmm 101:3, 13
hold 28:15
holding 75:19
holistic 73:17
homicide 101:14
honest 75:20 91:22
Honor 101:20
hope 32:14, 25
hoped 44:23 76:22
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hopes 42:17
hosted 40:20
hostile 29:23 118:9, 13,
18 120:2 129:2, 4, 14
130:8 132:11, 14
hotel 101:19
hour 1:20 47:8
HR 18:14, 15, 16 19:3, 5,
6, 7 28:14 29:15
hub 111:9
huh-uh 4:10 131:18
Hundred 68:25
HUNT 2:3
hypotheticals 92:11
<I>
idea 40:1 50:16, 18
59:8, 17 69:24 70:1
75:12 84:8, 14 97:16, 22
113:11
ideas 32:11 33:25
113:16
identifying 81:6
illegal 62:3 69:19 89:3,
9 95:19 96:3
Immediately 51:21
impacting 71:14
impart 63:22
imparting 62:20
implement 76:22
implementing 7:20
36:24 39:21 80:13
impossible 88:4
impressive 86:5
improve 10:6, 10
inability 124:17
inappropriate 43:23
47:1 56:9, 12 57:3, 8, 9
inappropriately 57:1
incident 62:13 79:23
incidents 35:25
inclined 115:12
include 10:1 33:5
35:24 47:22 48:1 69:18
74:19, 25 106:23 129:22
included 43:11, 15
124:11
including 72:7 76:19
83:6 122:12 128:2
income 7:16
independent 47:13, 16
52:22
INDEX 132:1, 18 133:1
134:1 135:1
7
indicate 22:11 25:23
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indicated 23:14 33:4
72:9 79:4 108:13
indicating 21:24
indirect 7:8
individual 8:19, 20 30:2
76:21
individuals 15:12 19:4
23:2 72:6 73:22 95:20
128:2, 7, 24
inform 69:14 104:23
informally 26:16 119:16
120:3 132:12
information 11:3 14:17,
22 15:2 23:9 38:7 42:6
49:22 63:23 68:1, 14
71:10 73:14 78:25 87:9
93:13 96:13 100:10
111:25 113:15 125:21
informed 62:17 77:23
78:4 80:11 105:23
Ingle 98:11
initially 52:19 75:7
initiated 79:2 110:9
125:5 128:22
inmate 20:25, 25
inmates 7:8 26:6 30:12,
14 32:2, 12, 20 59:10
input 10:19
inquire 49:12 100:10, 11
inside 5:23 7:8 30:15
130:6
insist 23:3
insisted 25:5
Inspector 5:5, 10 20:12,
13, 14 22:18 28:13
29:14 45:11 72:5
inspired 34:1
instruct 23:10
intended 74:4 95:19
96:14
intent 67:17, 21 97:20
107:2
intention 115:10
interactions 61:4 76:17,
23 77:13, 16 79:9, 11
interest 39:23
interested 31:1
Interesting 100:10
interlude 23:25
internal 71:20 99:3
135:17
internally 124:14, 15
interpretation 23:12
interrupting 109:8
interview 70:17 100:20
134:9, 11
interviewed 70:16
110:20 119:4, 7
interviews 111:4 119:6,
8 132:9
intimately 30:23
introduces 33:11
investigate 65:9 72:6
investigated 29:18 62:15
68:11 118:17 128:25
129:1, 5, 22, 23
investigating 20:16
investigation 8:5, 6, 10,
12 62:20 66:5 70:11, 22,
23 71:2, 5, 6, 8, 13, 16
72:19 74:15 103:12
109:24 113:14, 24 114:4
126:16 129:3 130:3, 9
investigations 119:25
132:9
investigator 102:23
investigators 70:12, 16,
19 76:10, 12 100:21
101:16 102:3 103:10
126:18 127:18
investigator's 102:1
invited 101:4
involved 14:6 49:3, 5, 9
61:17 93:12, 14 106:16
107:9
involving 38:19
issue 10:5 15:10 16:12,
16, 20 24:8 27:7 29:16
36:21, 22 42:13 44:22
45:14 46:19 50:25, 25
51:5 57:13 59:14 64:3
77:25 78:1, 2 79:23
86:6 88:3, 15 89:5
90:11 91:7, 9, 25 124:18
127:24
issues 5:16 19:5, 6, 8, 10,
15 20:1, 8, 15, 22 24:15
27:8 46:16, 19 49:6, 9
50:13 52:4 67:3 72:11,
14 76:15 77:19 80:5, 6
105:14, 25 106:6, 23
108:20 113:20 118:11
126:3 127:16
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item 30:4 43:19 132:19
133:2 134:2 135:2
items 37:21 40:18 41:1,
22
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111:25
<J>
January 35:17, 18 74:12
79:10 80:2
Jeff 45:15 58:6
job 4:22 7:5, 11 13:9
19:11 59:11 102:16
John 105:19
Jordan 120:17, 21
121:13 122:6, 24 123:16
Joseph 6:22
Journal 24:24 72:9
135:19
judgment 8:5, 13 130:2
July 4:25 16:16 59:5
61:25 85:23 87:5
133:13, 15
jump 8:8
Justice 1:21 2:8 5:15,
16 6:15 20:19, 21 23:15
24:12 40:3 43:14 45:12,
13 51:15 52:8, 16, 17
71:2 72:13, 23 74:16
justify 75:25
<K>
keeping 3:21
Keisling 50:3 53:3
74:18 75:15 98:12, 15,
20 99:6, 12, 16 114:6
135:3
Keisling's 75:6
Kelli 82:14 133:3
kept 7:16 77:24 78:13,
20 80:11
Ketchum 82:15 133:3
Kevin 105:19 106:20
kick 98:11
KILLGORE 1:4 2:13
4:4 9:15 10:14, 16
15:16 16:7, 11, 20, 25
18:3, 11, 25 25:6 26:14
29:19 31:21 32:6 36:8
37:14 38:3, 4, 8, 9, 20
39:5 40:9 41:12 42:18
44:8, 18 45:3, 10, 22
46:2, 11, 14, 15, 21 47:11,
12 48:23 50:2, 3, 6, 13,
17, 21 51:5, 11, 17, 19
52:3, 7, 15, 18 53:4, 7, 9
58:25 59:13, 15, 22
60:13, 16 61:17 62:2, 5,
8, 12, 17 64:2, 6, 23, 25
65:7, 18, 25 67:2, 3
69:22, 24 70:4, 18 73:7,
12, 20 74:2, 4 75:9 76:5,
11, 14, 16, 18 79:14
81:16 82:2 84:5 85:21,
23 86:2, 4, 6 87:2, 7, 10
88:25 89:15 93:6, 19
94:24 95:12, 16 97:3, 6
101:8, 9, 16 105:2, 24
106:12, 13 107:2, 8, 13
109:16 113:3, 13 115:10
116:12 117:9, 13, 17
119:11 120:3, 14 121:5,
23 123:8 124:4 126:3
129:7, 15 132:12, 15, 21,
23 133:6, 8, 9, 11, 11, 19,
21 134:17, 21 135:15
Killgore's 19:15 20:8
37:18 38:10 39:5 44:10
72:11 83:14 84:16
102:20 103:11 107:18
114:17 115:1 119:1
120:7, 9
Kilmer 109:1
KIM 1:17 136:2, 18
kind 43:6 58:17 66:13
78:5 97:15 111:17
knew 30:24 37:2, 4
44:21 50:23, 25 51:1
63:1 66:6 84:23 85:17
86:8 107:8
know 10:22, 23, 24
11:19 14:3, 25 15:2, 11
18:18 19:21 21:15
25:20 27:2 28:5, 8 29:3,
8, 16 30:1, 12 31:14, 20
32:6, 24 35:3, 8, 12, 21
36:18 39:24 40:4, 7
41:6, 8 42:2, 10 43:10
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46:18 47:19 49:5, 11
50:16, 23 51:23 52:1, 5
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59:9 60:13 61:5, 16, 21
64:1, 4, 8, 15, 16 66:4, 6,
12 70:1, 3, 23 72:2, 4, 13
73:21 74:21 76:7 77:1,
18 78:9, 14, 16, 21 80:16
81:12 82:16 85:3, 6, 9,
20, 22 86:2 88:23 90:12
92:14 94:11, 11 95:15
97:18 98:25 100:10, 14
103:23, 24, 25 105:21
106:9 107:2, 3, 25
108:21, 22, 23 109:2, 4, 4,
11, 14, 15, 16, 19, 20
110:8, 17, 18, 23 111:11,
14 112:15 119:1, 4, 6, 7,
10, 14 120:9 122:4
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9 125:14, 17 128:9
131:15
knowing 56:4, 15
knowledge 13:16, 18
51:14, 16 64:20 118:18,
21, 22 127:9, 14
known 37:7
<L>
labeling 93:22
labor 12:20 59:14
60:14, 24 108:19, 21, 23
124:23, 24
lack 94:18 124:18
125:5, 10, 24 126:15
127:8, 13
laid 31:7, 11, 14
language 50:21 75:25
96:6 116:5 117:10
118:15
large 81:12 96:2
larger 65:15 77:9
late 11:6
laundry 65:20
law 7:12 53:15 108:21,
24
laws 87:14
lawyer 39:24 89:2 91:3,
6 92:19 109:14
lawyers 11:1 81:4
lay 31:18
lead 116:3
leader 94:25
leadership 13:19, 25
125:12, 20
leading 103:10
learn 36:16 37:12
41:11, 16 60:23 68:16
70:6, 8, 9 90:3
learned 36:17 37:9
51:13 66:3 68:12 71:25
86:10
learning 66:13 77:6
8
leave 23:11 80:24
leaves 3:22
led 33:20, 24 76:20
116:7 123:6
left 25:14 91:7 97:12
legal 22:19, 21 41:25
42:13 43:14 53:19
56:24 58:3, 4, 11 67:10,
10 71:22 81:21 82:8
89:8, 13 90:8, 13, 17, 21
91:1, 13, 24 92:17 127:4
130:7
legislature 5:13 6:2
legitimate 44:1
lengthy 42:11
Leonard 11:24 21:23
112:23 118:3 134:3, 23
135:5, 13
letter 31:8, 12, 13 87:16
113:2 118:10, 16 121:7,
14 124:3, 6, 9 130:1, 22
131:1, 3 135:10, 15
level 15:15 18:1 25:24
28:18 41:25 91:22
111:22 123:10 130:6
liaison 18:14, 15, 16
20:18, 21 21:10, 25
113:12, 14
light 42:6 130:10
lightly 12:20
limitation 37:5 39:21
64:2
line 12:25 26:8 29:21
30:3, 8 33:21 34:11
39:19 54:25 57:15, 15
58:21, 23, 24 59:17
73:11 83:8, 12, 12 87:11
90:2 98:7 99:9 101:13
102:8 108:25 115:11
117:2
LIPPOLD 2:8 3:13, 15,
19, 24 16:9 18:19 19:17
21:13, 21 22:4, 6, 10, 15
23:5 24:21 26:12, 19
31:4 32:4 33:10 44:6
47:3, 7 49:19, 25 50:9
52:11 55:8 60:25 67:19
81:1 82:24 85:7, 10
90:9 91:4, 16, 19 92:7
93:1 94:8 95:5, 7 96:9
99:14 100:24 101:6
103:16, 19, 21 104:14
105:11 106:18 109:5, 7
111:12 112:7, 14 117:18
121:10, 12 131:8, 10
list 10:23 29:3, 6 41:19
69:24 70:4, 6 73:15, 17,
22 128:14
listed 105:14 107:16
litigation 20:25
little 65:9 80:6 103:24
logic 27:16 38:2 39:9,
13, 19 40:21 42:25 43:2,
3, 16 65:3 68:8
logistics 111:20
long 4:17, 24 5:7, 17, 25
14:2 49:2 93:14
longer 3:23 68:4
look 12:4 29:17 74:23
99:1
looking 11:19 18:19
22:19, 21
looks 82:12
lose 12:20
lost 68:13
lot 104:18
low 127:23, 25 128:4
<M>
magnitude 42:5
maintaining 7:20 36:24
39:22
major 58:1
making 11:3, 13 29:24
31:15, 15 36:10 52:23
57:21 67:7 97:21
102:15 112:1
manage 16:25 79:18
management 13:11
56:13, 13 77:21 125:6,
10, 25 126:4
manager 71:13
managing 77:19 78:2
mandate 36:23
manifest 34:10
manufacturing 40:18
March 11:5, 5, 6, 15
12:4, 15 31:17 36:1, 3, 4
53:4 57:13 76:5, 11, 19
79:10 80:2 83:2, 14
117:24 118:3 124:1, 4
132:6 133:6, 8 135:8, 10,
12, 14, 16, 19
Marie 3:9
MARION 1:2
Mark 61:14 86:1, 13, 16
marketing 39:25 40:20,
22 46:20
Master's 6:15, 17
materials 120:2 132:11
matter 51:2, 12 52:9, 13
63:24 84:24 136:7
matters 113:13 124:23
Max 100:13 107:25
mean 15:7 53:18 57:8
68:25 80:20 89:18
103:23 110:10, 13, 19
124:15 127:3 128:19
131:14
means 94:2
meant 117:9 127:13
mediation 5:23
meet 27:17 46:14 52:3
53:3 98:12 105:20
meeting 25:15, 20, 22
27:5, 25 43:2 46:17, 18
47:10, 18, 20 48:5, 7, 10,
21 49:1 50:1, 3, 12, 16
52:7 53:6, 9 62:11
64:23, 25 65:24 67:2
69:22 73:3 74:18, 22
75:7 77:6 88:1, 6, 17, 17
91:6, 7, 8, 11, 23 92:1, 6
98:6, 11, 15 102:2, 18
105:15 106:21, 24 121:1,
22 123:2, 5 126:5, 6
127:17
meetings 18:7 21:5
52:5 61:7 77:7 78:6
97:20 98:23 106:15
member 13:14, 21 55:18,
21 86:14, 24 97:21, 24
104:18
members 10:25 11:12,
25 12:2
memo 43:11
memorandum 36:20
42:15 44:24 82:6 94:24
135:10
memorialized 78:14
memory 5:18 69:3
mention 47:18 132:19
133:2 134:2 135:2
mentioned 30:4 42:14,
23 47:10, 20 76:14 80:8
96:17 97:8 116:14
merits 111:25
met 72:9, 13 75:10
105:17
meter 105:9 112:8, 9
M-hm 30:5 36:5 48:24
69:6 79:3 94:5 101:6
Michael 11:23
mid 11:6
middle 3:9 83:2 114:5
mid-March 11:7 76:8
mid-October 70:14
Miller 76:20 114:18
115:2, 15 116:22 117:8,
12, 17, 21 120:13 121:7,
14 123:18 130:19
million 69:9
mind 33:25 42:2 86:25
91:1 92:10
minimum 120:22
Minneapolis 6:5
Minnesota 6:5, 23
minute 105:8
minutes 68:8 98:10
104:17 128:12
misconduct 8:4, 7
misjudged 94:16
missed 121:20
missing 14:20 102:1
misuse 99:5
Mitch 45:22 82:10
84:20 102:16 105:20
106:3 109:1, 17 114:22
132:20, 22, 24 133:5, 7,
11, 15, 17, 21 134:5, 7, 9,
15 135:5
Mitch's 87:12 108:7
model 30:20, 25 79:15
97:25
mollify 38:8
mom 5:2
moment 31:4
Monday 105:18
money 54:4 68:12, 17
96:2
monies 7:19 54:8 86:21
months 5:3
morale 127:24, 25 128:5
Morrison 2:4
Morrow 7:3 45:9, 10, 22
46:1, 6, 10, 14 47:11
49:5, 9, 11, 23 52:3 53:3,
6 60:18 62:12 63:7, 22
64:12, 17 65:12 66:2, 7,
9, 19 69:23 70:2 82:11
85:1, 17, 20 87:19, 23
93:21, 24 94:15, 21 97:2
98:3, 11, 14 99:25
100:17 104:9, 24 106:2,
13, 14 109:1, 17 113:16,
19 114:23 132:20, 22, 24
133:5, 7, 11, 15, 17, 21
134:5, 7, 9, 15 135:5
Morrow's 48:19 94:25
102:21
MOU 50:14, 16, 21
83:19, 20
move 28:9 30:18 40:23
81:11 86:3, 11 87:21
97:3, 6 111:7, 24 115:12
123:9
moved 103:25 104:6, 24
moving 16:14 49:12
57:18, 22 58:23 84:11
87:23 105:2 115:10
121:21
multiple 15:19 17:9
18:11 19:20 26:2 27:8
32:10 46:7 52:5
murdered 39:18
<N>
name 3:7, 10 4:2 53:8
96:23 119:19 125:14, 15
names 3:9 119:15
128:10, 11, 13, 14, 18
129:3, 16, 17, 19
nature 48:4 62:17 71:6,
10
NE 1:21 2:9
nearly 31:24
necessarily 56:11, 12
67:14 74:24 99:5
104:13
necessary 63:23
need 3:8, 17 28:15, 16
30:14, 24 63:2 67:23
68:7 72:6 75:8 78:21
81:2 88:16 92:16 93:15
97:1 105:20 109:23
112:6, 7, 9, 10
needed 15:15 44:21
65:6 68:4, 10 73:21, 22
85:6, 9, 10 91:24 127:12
needs 28:14 91:13
Neil 50:20 51:13 62:6,
24, 25 64:22 67:5, 24
68:20 69:4, 13 83:20
84:20, 23 87:11 93:8
107:23 108:2, 8, 19
127:11
Neil's 84:19 87:16
108:18
neither 23:2 100:13
9
NERHEIM 1:17 136:2,
18
never 10:24 17:4, 18
26:21 60:16 66:25 72:3
78:11 100:8 127:12
new 34:4, 4 57:13
66:16 74:1 92:15
news 82:12
newspaper 24:17, 23
25:4 72:8
Nice 86:5
Nick 49:11 125:14
night 93:8
nine 112:17
nod 4:9
Nodded 101:7 114:21
nonpartisan 5:15
normal 94:2
note 12:13 17:25 80:16
96:25 111:1 119:24
129:12
noted 17:12 116:11
notes 68:21, 23 136:7
notice 8:1 74:5
noticed 97:10
notion 67:15 77:11
November 35:6, 7
107:13, 19, 24 112:24
134:17, 19, 21, 23
number 32:12, 20 65:15
<O>
oath 3:3
Object 16:9 21:13
22:15 23:5 26:12, 19
32:4 33:10 44:6 47:3
50:9 52:11 55:8 60:25
67:19 91:16 94:8 96:9
99:20 103:16 104:14
106:18 109:5 111:12
objected 36:9 42:3
Objection 19:17 21:20
41:11, 16, 23 49:19, 19,
25 90:9 91:4, 18, 20
92:7 109:9 117:18
observing 20:2
obtain 85:11 111:25
occur 13:1 23:25
occurred 24:2 30:21
104:21 127:17
OCE 19:3 25:24 27:10
32:2 36:10 41:7 42:16
46:11, 22, 24 47:13, 22,
25 52:14, 20 53:1, 13, 15,
25 54:11, 12, 13, 22, 22
55:6, 13, 17 56:1, 9, 23
57:6, 14, 15, 20, 23 73:2
75:12 78:2, 5 79:21
80:11 81:17 82:15 83:8
85:18 86:14 87:20
89:17 97:9 98:2 99:3, 9,
10, 11 105:15 109:25
111:3, 9, 24 116:25
117:3 118:12 119:15
120:3 125:5, 10, 24
127:24, 25 128:2 130:13
132:8, 12
OCE's 94:19
October 25:5 35:2, 3
72:10, 16 76:10, 18, 25
77:15 78:19 100:1
126:20 134:9, 11, 13, 15
136:13
offender 13:11
offense 8:24 9:1
offer 39:3 42:6
offered 23:21
office 62:1 71:17 72:10
74:8 83:8 95:16 97:19
109:25 110:16 113:7
130:11
Officer 27:11, 12 37:21
122:10 130:12
officer's 39:18
offices 1:20
officials 53:10
Oh 13:5 22:22 66:24
80:24 85:10 89:5, 6, 7
91:15 93:2 94:13 95:8
128:12 131:9
okay 4:6, 7 11:21 16:18
17:5 20:24 21:21, 22
22:5, 22 31:6 35:17
36:8 37:7 44:10, 15, 17
49:1 50:20 52:24 57:10
59:21, 24 61:11, 21
66:24 67:2, 9 69:13
73:18 79:1 80:22, 25
81:1, 3, 14 82:20, 25
85:1 93:5 94:13 95:6
99:15 103:21 105:12
112:15, 20 114:22
116:15 119:1 120:23
121:9 128:21 129:11, 20
131:6, 17, 19
old 83:7
once 62:25 68:1, 13
91:1
ones 24:14 31:22 77:9
80:8
one's 56:17
ongoing 14:4, 6 35:4, 9
80:10 89:14 103:9, 12
118:11 124:21 126:17
129:7
open 23:11
open-door 71:14
operates 7:12
operating 122:10 130:12
operational 99:2
operationally 111:8
operations 19:13 30:17
38:23 78:5 80:11
122:11
opinion 39:24 40:2
42:7 45:17 58:11 62:5
67:6 68:3, 15 81:17, 21
82:3, 8 87:12 89:9 90:8,
13, 21 91:1, 13, 25 93:10
108:8
opinion, 92:17
opinions 40:9 43:14, 15
45:18 83:18
opportunity 8:2
oppose 48:4
opposed 13:21 48:2, 5
96:18
opposing 84:3
opposite 25:9 59:15
option 10:8
options 15:5, 7, 9, 11
21:10, 12 22:1, 11 23:3,
17, 22
oral 136:6, 11
order 13:7 34:4 41:20
85:11 112:5
OREGON 1:1, 7, 18, 20,
22 2:4, 8, 9 4:14, 23 7:6,
15 13:19 17:11 26:3, 23
28:17 29:14 30:19
38:14 39:14 40:17
53:23 54:6 71:12, 19
78:1 136:2, 12, 19
org 83:7
organization 9:17 18:12
28:7 30:3, 11, 16 47:25
57:14 104:22 111:18
123:10
organizational 12:11, 14
58:5 132:3
organizations 30:23
Originals 135:22
our, 25:22
outcome 124:13, 19, 22
outside 30:19 51:16
56:18 58:18 71:22 85:4,
12, 18 87:14 92:19
110:18 127:2, 16 131:19
outweighed 111:22
overall 9:8 79:20
oversee 7:6 54:18
oversight 99:4
ownership 127:14
<P>
p.m 1:20 83:2 131:24
packet 118:2 135:9
Page 25:2 83:3, 7, 11
84:16 90:20 94:15 97:3
99:1, 9 100:1, 23 101:18
102:5 103:6 106:8
107:23 109:22 114:5, 17,
22 132:2
pages 136:9
papers 111:3 132:8
Paragraph 25:5 87:11
94:16 95:17 99:2, 14
107:23 108:2, 12, 15, 17
109:22 111:6 116:11, 17,
21 117:5 124:12 125:8
paragraphs 25:8 83:21
Pardon 16:1 20:25
38:12 85:7, 8
part 7:11 8:12 29:23
57:18, 21 64:7 93:13
99:9, 10, 22 104:11, 12
106:7 129:3
participant 79:15
particular 14:12 20:20
27:7, 19 29:15 37:20
45:14 50:16, 24 53:10
55:14, 16 81:10 91:23
99:1
parties 106:16
partnership 39:17
parts 27:11
party 81:7
passage 81:11
passing 38:6
path 25:9 115:11
pause 44:18 65:9 79:12
105:8 131:2, 21
paying 27:10 37:20
49:17 101:19
Penitentiary 78:1
people 12:5 28:15
29:12 57:23 61:21
73:16 91:12 106:23
perceived 8:1
perfectly 49:1
perform 15:15, 15
performance 9:8 10:5, 7,
10 12:22 15:2 16:8, 21
17:2, 7 18:24 19:15
20:1, 8 21:9 25:24
26:11, 14 76:15 102:10,
20 103:11
performed 110:23
performer 17:23
performing 15:17, 23
17:15 25:23
period 11:15, 17 37:7
75:24 76:24 78:19
79:11, 24 80:1, 5 126:10
permanent 97:21, 24
109:2, 18
permissible 56:18
person 9:6 10:13, 15
12:24 13:6 54:21 128:7
personal 86:14 94:20
127:8
personally 69:16, 19
97:13 104:21 136:3
personnel 20:15, 22
42:17 60:11 72:11, 14
103:23 111:4 113:13, 20
132:9
Persons 5:24 12:8
105:24
person's 9:8
perspective 14:1 15:4
89:14
persuade 74:19
pertain 81:13
pertaining 27:7 49:6
127:16
PETERS 1:13, 17 3:1,
10 4:2 21:22 22:18
25:5 95:18 101:2
132:20, 22, 24 133:3, 5, 7,
9, 13, 15, 17, 19, 19, 23
134:5, 7, 7, 11, 13, 13, 17,
19, 19, 21 135:3, 5, 7, 10,
10, 13, 15
Phase 33:24
Phil 50:3 53:3, 7 74:18
135:3
phone 55:13, 17 70:10
74:22 96:6
10
physical 99:3 111:8
pick 55:13, 16
piece 14:16, 17
pilot 86:3
place 27:4, 6 30:3
74:12 136:4, 5
Plaintiff 1:5, 14 2:6
plan 10:6, 9, 10 26:5
30:11 32:20, 23, 23 33:1
34:4 47:24 54:16 75:9
80:13, 18 126:19
planning 26:7, 9 57:22
122:19
plans 25:6 76:10, 13
126:5, 7
please 3:7, 11 4:11
28:10, 12 32:16 80:9
88:9 91:17 94:10 96:25
125:7 128:9, 10 129:16
pleasure 55:22 56:4
plug 112:7, 9
point 34:2 70:8 71:9
73:2, 5 76:15 88:4, 23
90:13 98:25 99:1, 6, 12
112:5 113:18 124:24
129:24
points 98:14, 19, 22
112:17 134:7
Police 5:21 28:14 29:4,
14
policy 7:23 8:7 10:25
11:12, 21, 25 12:2, 15
13:21 57:22 58:16 59:5
71:14 76:18, 23 77:6, 14,
16, 19, 21 78:3, 6, 10
79:9, 15, 17 92:9 97:15,
21, 24 98:1 99:22
104:11 130:4 132:3
political 127:12
portion 68:10
Portland 2:4 112:10
136:12
pose 44:4 96:21
posed 85:20
position 28:20 32:2
55:12 89:12 90:8 94:25
121:18
positions 72:3 95:12
possibility 92:4
possible 8:21 11:3
30:13 81:12
potential 106:15, 22
potentially 26:6 40:19
practice 17:23 18:2
31:23 55:24 74:9 108:7
113:6 124:24
practices 65:22
preconceived 67:15
preempted 66:24
prefaced 21:24
prefer 3:12
Preparatory 6:4
prepare 113:8
preparing 113:1
PRESENT 2:13 50:3
53:4
presented 19:4 128:2
presenting 55:19
pressed 78:25
Preus 74:2
previous 9:22 40:12
45:18 82:5 97:25 120:8
previously-used 39:19
Primarily 29:20 53:22
124:16
principal 6:7
prior 11:8, 11, 20 23:22
31:20 34:14 36:8 37:8,
13, 15 38:14 66:6 103:9
prison 7:16, 21 36:23,
24 39:22
prisons 7:8 30:15
privilege 21:14, 17
22:17 23:2
privileged 22:25 23:10
privy 64:8
proactively 106:15
probably 19:24 20:9, 10
27:2 102:22
probe 14:19
probing 42:9 121:19
problem 3:18, 21 18:25
92:21, 23
proceed 76:2 123:12
proceeding 59:22
proceedings 131:21
136:6, 11
process 126:2 128:23
processing 122:4
produced 12:14 111:2
119:25 124:19 129:13
professional 71:17, 18
program 32:13, 21 59:6
86:4, 15
programs 7:16, 21
36:23, 25 39:22
progressive 84:13
project 33:5 87:8
promoted 5:10
prompted 96:20
proposal 84:11, 17, 21
proposed 58:25
proposing 73:16
propriety 44:19
prospective 111:24
provide 10:19 32:19
33:1 36:20 41:25 42:12,
17 43:5 44:23 57:4
63:23 75:9 98:22
provided 14:17 22:1, 11,
13 59:12 68:1 98:14
115:16
provides 7:15
providing 23:16
PSU 32:25 33:4, 8, 24
34:2, 14 35:5, 13, 22
47:18, 21 50:7 53:10, 13
73:5, 14, 25 75:8 77:6,
10 98:6 124:12, 17
126:24
psychology 6:16
public 5:9 37:10
pull 55:21 78:5
pulling 65:11 78:7
purchase 40:19 41:1
purchases 39:15 41:7
purchasing 39:17 41:22
42:3
purpose 13:12 118:4
purposes 3:14 96:3
106:20 130:25
pursuing 31:1
purview 30:19
push 55:21 112:18
put 10:5 28:12 67:23
68:7, 13 70:4 103:22
puts 54:16
<Q>
question 4:5 16:4, 10
21:14, 23, 25 22:7, 9
23:11 26:13, 20 28:19
32:5, 15, 15, 18, 19 33:11
44:3, 7 47:4 50:10
52:12 53:12 54:19 55:2,
9, 11, 15 59:18 61:1
66:24 67:20 85:14, 20
93:19 94:9 96:10
101:25 102:1 103:17, 22
104:15 106:19 109:4
111:13
questioning 11:2
questions 4:3 14:19
22:9, 16 39:8 42:9, 10
65:9 81:9 96:21 108:19
120:9 121:19, 19
quickly 81:11
Quite 25:9 31:14 59:15
102:22
quote 48:7, 11, 12 49:2,
3 65:4
<R>
raise 42:18 43:18 64:10,
13
raised 43:19 45:23
46:15 127:24, 25
raising 46:2 50:13 64:2,
6
ran 5:23
range 11:19 15:11
ranged 21:7
rationale 40:15 129:23
rbusse@busseandhunt.co
m 2:5
reached 11:9 90:21
122:23
reaching 11:11
read 32:17, 18 40:6, 7,
12 43:16 81:18 82:8
87:16 89:8 100:7
106:17, 24 107:6, 21
115:9 116:1 131:14
readiness 58:25 59:12
74:1 84:9 86:12, 24
reading 81:20 82:5, 18
100:9 107:8
ready 112:21
real 59:11
realistic 10:11
realize 86:13
realized 70:17
really 11:2 15:2 28:16,
16 30:1, 15 44:13 56:16
57:23, 25 67:22 68:12
73:23 74:9, 25 75:8
76:17 77:4 79:15, 16, 17,
18 96:17 97:8 98:1
113:19 116:10 124:18
reason 40:11, 14 50:5
53:10, 22 59:18 67:8
72:22 73:1, 10 86:9
93:16 104:6 105:2
125:21
reasonable 74:14 89:3,
11
reasoning 75:11
reasons 13:23 29:20
31:7, 11 75:18, 20
recall 10:22 11:10, 21,
23, 25 13:6, 8 14:7, 10,
14, 16, 25 16:6 17:8, 22
19:22, 25 20:4, 6 21:11
23:21 24:1, 9, 10 25:19
29:7 31:3, 22 32:1, 24
34:15, 23 35:1, 8, 12, 16,
17, 19 36:1, 17 38:19
39:2 40:5 41:14, 19
44:17, 20 45:19, 21 46:1,
4 47:14, 17, 21, 23 48:13,
15, 18, 25 49:4 50:4, 11,
15, 24 51:25 52:15, 21,
23 53:2, 5 58:8, 13, 22,
22 61:3, 13, 19, 24 63:17
64:19, 21 65:2, 17, 19, 21,
23 66:10, 12 67:7 68:18
69:2, 9, 12, 13, 17, 21
72:14, 21, 25 73:4 74:6,
13, 17, 21 75:23 76:25
77:14 78:12, 16, 18
79:23 80:14, 20 81:19,
22 82:13 83:25 84:3, 25
86:19 88:1 93:16 94:1
98:21 99:7, 16 100:19
101:24, 25 104:25 109:3,
10, 19 112:2, 3, 4 113:23
115:3 117:15, 23 118:5,
5 119:15 120:15, 25
121:2 122:18 124:7, 9
125:19, 20 126:9 128:13
129:18, 19 131:4, 13
recalling 14:14 38:12
45:16 68:20 77:2, 20
118:16
receive 78:10 86:21
88:19 107:18
received 58:12 62:5
67:10 68:2 70:10 81:16
89:8 93:6 98:23 107:21
114:11 117:8
recess 47:9 93:4
recipient 86:15
recognizing 30:14
recollection 61:10 77:22
80:3 105:1 110:10, 13
recommend 56:6
recommendation 16:14
47:14 56:2, 23 58:9
86:23 110:3
11
recommendations 74:20,
25
recommended 66:14
83:22 84:1 108:20
recommends 93:10
record 3:7, 16, 24 4:1
21:19 31:7 60:23
136:10
recorded 134:9, 11
recuse 113:22
recused 113:19
recusing 114:2
reduced 99:5
refer 28:13 29:4 36:3
47:12 57:19
reference 121:6 130:22
referred 115:18
referring 71:5 89:22
102:11, 14 117:6 119:20
130:21 131:2
reflective 116:23
reformation 59:10
refused 67:4
regard 20:22 23:13
83:18
regarding 23:22 72:14
120:2 132:11
regularly 38:21
rehabilitation 13:11
reinstate 98:1
relate 39:20 88:5
119:19
related 39:4 87:13
113:20
relations 60:14, 24
124:23
relationship 10:16 51:18
75:13 86:12 98:2 99:23
116:9 120:23 124:22
127:20
relationships 79:19
relatives 49:2
relied 19:4 38:22 39:24
96:15
relies 122:10
rely 63:22 77:5
relying 13:25 43:5
remain 26:4 54:9 55:10
124:17
remaining 111:19
remedy 24:8
remember 11:14, 16
12:18 14:18, 21, 22
16:11, 23, 23 17:8 21:4
29:11 37:19, 19 38:1
39:6, 6, 9 41:3 42:10
43:5, 10 44:12 46:17
48:3 52:6 53:11 63:17
65:3, 5, 16 66:3 68:24
69:15 74:3 76:7 77:2, 3,
4, 23 78:9 79:13, 13
81:20 82:5, 6, 18 87:25
88:2, 8, 10, 22 95:24
96:1 100:6 101:3, 9
115:8, 9, 14, 19, 20, 25
116:5, 6 119:19, 22, 22
121:2, 17 122:3 123:7, 7
127:10
REMEMBERED 1:16
66:15
remembering 12:5
40:12, 14 41:21 53:6
61:5 98:24
remind 79:25
reorganization 58:16, 20
repeat 9:1
rephrase 4:6
replace 121:23
report 7:1, 3 24:17, 23
33:24 34:23, 25 35:5, 9
62:6, 13, 15, 16, 19, 24
63:2, 14, 16 64:24 65:6,
8, 11 68:1, 5, 10, 13 72:9
74:20 76:3 77:10 88:16
96:16, 18, 22 98:8 100:8,
14, 18 124:12, 13, 19
reported 25:8 62:16, 18
63:14, 19 65:13 72:12
93:15 136:5
Reporter 1:18 3:2
32:18 136:3
reporting 62:9, 24 93:10
108:10 117:3
reports 25:4 55:22
60:11 79:22
represent 130:1
request 12:14 23:8
47:14, 17 51:19 52:16,
21, 23 74:25 75:22
91:22 108:25 111:2
118:6 119:25 129:13
requested 58:4
requesting 70:4 77:4
requests 36:9 132:3
require 111:20 130:8
requirement 62:9 117:3
requirements 127:10
rescind 73:5
research 5:15 43:4
residence 3:11
resign 86:16
resigned 61:14 86:19
resolution 61:17 78:21
resolve 28:15 77:25, 25
92:22 126:2 130:12
resolved 61:7, 11, 20, 23
79:7 90:12
respect 20:15 30:9
94:18, 25
respond 79:1
responded 127:3, 7
response 4:9 16:3, 4
23:3 44:11 63:6 75:6
83:25 87:24 89:16
100:1 104:1 115:24
116:4 121:16
responses 128:3
responsibility 7:9 54:6,
7, 17, 23 57:5 127:8, 14
responsible 7:7 13:10
19:12 20:16 54:13
62:22, 23
result 3:20 83:19 125:4
resulted 42:14
results 110:7 119:8
retained 85:18
revenue-generating 53:20
reversed 67:5
review 28:14 29:14, 15,
15 31:23 33:1 47:13, 16,
22, 24 48:1, 8 52:9, 17,
19 53:1 60:11 71:20
83:20, 22 84:1, 11 87:11
105:18 108:7 118:20
reviewed 31:13, 19, 20
98:23
revise 75:14
revised 33:17 75:16
rewrite 98:7
Rich 3:15 4:2
RICHARD 2:3
right 14:10 15:9 19:22
20:11 23:20, 20 27:16
28:7 38:16 50:18 51:9
56:8, 24 64:6 68:9
73:14 76:13 79:6 81:15
88:18 91:3 92:2, 12
93:25 97:10 101:10
103:1 105:10 106:8, 8, 8
107:6, 16 108:15 109:23
112:18 121:12
Rob 15:14 17:2, 9 18:6
28:10 34:7 41:24 61:3
77:10 86:5 88:14 90:1,
19 102:9, 17 103:23
105:13, 17, 19 106:5, 11,
21 107:1
ROBERT 1:4 2:13
132:20, 22 133:5, 7, 9, 11,
11, 19, 21 134:17, 21
135:15
role 13:15 20:12, 14
40:12 72:4 122:3
roles 57:5
Ron 120:6 135:12
rooms 101:19
rubber 88:11 89:17, 21
90:22
run 94:3
running 38:23 122:11
Ryan 135:10
<S>
S.W 2:4
Sadly 18:15
SAG 85:13
Saint 6:22, 22
Salem 1:22 2:9
Sarah 76:20 114:17
115:1 120:13 130:19
satisfied 42:21
saw 24:16 33:7 76:2
100:13
saying 29:2 47:21
48:13 49:4 53:2 66:24
84:10 101:2, 5, 8 127:10
says 25:13 83:17 84:19
87:19 88:20 93:8 98:7
99:2, 8 100:9, 13 101:12
102:8, 15 103:7 105:13,
17 107:23 108:2, 6, 17,
25 109:23 111:6 117:1
130:10
schedule 74:1, 3
scheduled 77:7 106:24
scheduling 74:10 111:20
School 6:4
scope 33:4, 7, 8, 13 75:1,
7, 16, 19 87:14 110:12
124:17
Scout 37:22 40:15
43:19 101:4, 10
Scouts 37:22 40:19
41:1, 5, 7
second 14:13 94:15
98:7 99:8 101:13
104:20 121:10 122:17
127:23
Secretary 62:1 109:25
110:15 111:2 129:9
132:8
security 3:19
see 6:20 7:11 25:16
46:24 54:7 57:9, 23
83:15, 22 84:21 87:14
88:10 92:3 95:4, 20
98:8 99:3 104:2 106:7,
11 110:1 111:9 114:20,
22, 23 116:17 125:6
130:12, 13
seeing 80:11, 12, 17, 18
131:13
seen 67:10 100:5, 12, 18
128:19
seize 72:24
self-funded 54:9
semi-independent 26:4
53:15, 18, 22
send 18:5 93:21
sending 106:9
seniority 14:1
sense 13:25 41:24
44:15 88:20 92:15
94:17
sense, 27:17 88:19
sent 70:3 76:19 93:22
94:12
separate 7:17 19:3 89:5
99:10
separated 34:3 77:11
separating 34:8 115:12
separation 116:24
September 1:19 95:13
98:4 133:23 134:4, 5
seriousness 8:23
serve 56:4
serves 55:22
services 62:23 82:15
108:7
session 116:16
set 30:18 50:2 106:15
126:5, 6 136:4
setting 106:21
settled 90:4, 12 91:11
126:11
setup 58:3
seven 112:17
shake 4:9
share 15:2 67:22 68:6
88:7
12
shared 42:25, 25 43:8
67:24 68:8 121:3
sharing 43:3, 16 115:20
shed 42:6
Shorthand 1:18 136:2
Shortly 15:21 88:25
show 24:17
showing 83:7
shows 83:11
sic 96:24
side 12:23 119:1 120:10
sides 8:13
signed 61:15 75:3
86:18, 20
signing 42:15
silly 81:4, 5
similar 24:14 38:23
96:6 119:23
simple 55:15
simply 14:1 107:3
Sims 18:23, 24 19:6, 9
105:5 134:4, 15
single 14:3 98:25
120:15
singular 129:24, 24
sir 34:17 52:6 68:19
119:9
sitting 8:20 55:12
118:19
situation 8:21 28:1, 2
39:7 62:15 90:18 91:24
108:3, 4
situations 74:7
six 5:3 14:9, 11, 23
15:6 19:24 20:5, 9
69:10 112:17
size 41:4 99:2
slash 40:22
sleep 12:20
slept 92:11
slush 46:12, 19, 23, 25
small 63:12
Snyder 3:9
sole 96:7, 13
soliciting 113:1, 15
solid 57:15 58:21, 23
83:12
solution 93:9 107:9
solutions 97:19 105:15,
18, 19 106:16, 22
solve 28:9
solved 97:19
somebody 3:22 10:9
69:19 90:7 91:10 98:22
something's 89:2
sometimes, 89:17
son 48:19 49:6, 12, 17
son's 49:6
soon 34:11 51:15
sorry 38:9 51:7 61:19
64:24 71:7 99:13
101:21 103:20 109:7
114:14 131:9
sort 54:15 73:18
sound 48:17
sounding 122:4
source 96:7, 13
speak 13:22 20:8 45:7
70:12 117:9
speaking 11:21, 23, 25
78:18 89:14, 14, 24, 25
94:21
special 13:16, 18
specialist 108:23
specializes 108:20
specific 17:8, 22 21:7
32:24 35:6, 19, 20 37:22
40:14 42:10 44:17, 20
45:16 52:6 54:2 57:4
61:13 66:4 69:17 72:25
73:10 76:7 80:6 95:20
105:1 116:5 128:7
specifically 14:25 25:19
29:7, 11 35:3 39:6 42:3
45:21 47:19, 23 48:3
50:15 64:4 65:2, 16
66:12 72:21 80:3 81:19
87:25 88:2, 15, 22 89:23
94:1 115:3, 25 117:23
121:17 122:3 125:14
specifics 12:18 14:14, 18,
21 16:23 20:3, 6 24:9,
13 35:8, 12 37:19 38:1
41:3 43:10 46:4 61:5
65:21 77:20 78:9 79:13
80:14 95:25 115:8, 19
119:22 121:2 122:18
123:7
speculate 106:10 107:4
speculation 32:5 44:7
47:4 94:9 96:10 109:9
111:13
speed 77:24 78:13, 20
spell 3:8 96:23
spend 54:4, 11, 22 55:6
spending 27:9 54:25
spent 39:11, 21 54:8
63:11
spinning 57:24
spoke 13:7 62:22 63:3,
7 64:22 117:12
spoken 117:13
spot 125:7
spring 34:16 37:10
stack 81:12
staff 5:15 61:23 97:7
111:19 118:11 127:23,
25 128:4
staffs 74:8
stand 116:19
standard 9:3, 6 15:18
16:8
standard, 17:16
standards 15:25 71:17,
18
started 70:11
starting 88:24
STATE 1:1, 7 3:7 4:4
9:22 28:13 29:4, 14
62:8 67:4 78:1 82:11
111:2 122:11, 11 129:9
132:8
stated 16:7 95:17
statement 36:3 67:7
96:8
statements 120:1 132:11
State's 62:1 109:25
110:16
Statesman 24:24 72:9
135:19
stating 68:4
status 53:19, 22
statute 64:14
statutory 51:16 85:4
stay 75:1 88:11 89:18,
22 90:23
stay-at-home 5:2
staying 75:19
steering 73:13, 24 77:5, 8
stenotype 136:6
step 16:3 131:19
Stephen 135:10
steps 121:18 122:2
steve.lippold@doj.state.or.
us 2:10
STEVEN 2:8
sticking 77:13
sticky 112:17
stool 57:19 97:16
stop 65:9
story 8:13 119:2 120:10
straight-out 66:20, 22
Street 1:21 2:4, 9
stretched 88:11 89:18,
22 90:23
strike 96:11
strong 4:9
struggling 16:13
style 56:12, 13
subject 12:17 13:12, 17
14:24 21:6 32:12 34:21
35:2, 18 36:2 38:25
48:19 58:12 59:24
70:23 95:12 114:3
submit 67:4
subordinates 8:15 9:14
subpoena 3:14
substance 14:16, 22
16:19 20:5 88:5 115:7
substandard 16:22 17:3,
7, 24
substantial 63:18 68:12,
16, 17
substantial' 68:25
succeed 12:24 38:17
success 12:25 25:10
94:20, 20
successful 59:10
suggested 44:4 52:19
suggesting 98:10
suggestion 87:24
suggestions 23:21
suggests 83:21
suit 33:14
Suite 2:4
summer 6:9 27:3 34:16
59:25 108:11
supervise 71:15
supervision 7:10
support 41:25 59:3 62:6
supported 65:1
supporting 77:10
supposed 53:12
Sure 12:9 14:20 19:7
22:3 34:22 39:7 64:8
68:19 69:2 83:17 87:20,
25 89:16 91:11 94:2
98:23, 24 107:5, 7
surfaced 79:24
surprise 47:23 95:25
survey 73:5, 11, 18, 21, 22
suspect 47:25
sway 67:15
sworn 3:2
symbiotic 57:25 75:13
98:2
<T>
table 40:20
take 8:17 12:19, 22
16:2 17:11 21:15 28:17
29:21 30:2, 11, 15 33:22
38:10 44:1 47:7 57:20
76:24 87:16 89:3, 11
93:1 99:1
Taken 1:14, 17 14:20
47:9 74:12 93:4 103:24
takes 54:15
talk 18:24 26:22 27:10
33:8 38:21 39:25 59:21
66:7, 9 67:11 72:11
82:12 92:16
talked 15:11, 13 24:15
29:8 38:2 58:16 64:4
73:12, 20 75:7 88:12, 13
97:15 101:20 114:8
117:2 124:16
talking 21:8, 16 36:4
54:2 55:23 58:23 74:11
79:13 98:14, 22 101:3
134:7
talks 106:21
Tami 63:4, 23 65:12
69:5 132:7
target 70:21
team 13:14 55:21 92:13
104:12, 19 111:22 113:7
126:4
tell 12:7, 19 16:19 17:2
20:13 24:6 29:5, 10
37:17, 24 38:6 45:22
50:2 51:5, 11 52:7, 18
54:4, 11, 21 55:6, 13, 25
63:5 65:12 69:18 78:18
85:1 99:13 115:7 118:7
telling 23:14, 15 38:20
97:3 101:15 102:23
tells 84:8 86:1, 1 87:10
91:10
ten 28:11 112:17
tenure 16:12 36:20
terminate 76:11, 13
121:25 126:19 127:20
terminated 9:20, 23
29:19 76:5
terminating 107:15
120:13
termination 11:8 15:5, 8
18:8 19:16 31:8, 12, 13
13
36:8 118:8, 10, 16 120:7,
24 123:10 124:3 125:1
129:23 130:22 131:3
135:15
terms 21:11 39:25
57:15, 22 60:13
testified 3:3 77:17
102:12 130:24
testimony 136:6, 10
testing 5:18
thank 13:5 16:2 18:21
29:1 33:16 57:12 79:6
81:24 82:1, 23 91:19
92:25 99:15 103:5, 15
107:11 108:14 114:15
129:20 131:5
thanked 94:6
thanking 94:11 106:7, 9
107:3, 15
thanks 84:12, 12 94:4
105:16 106:3, 5, 11
107:1, 3
theme 128:6
thereof 136:11
therewith 111:4, 5 132:9,
9
thing 65:11 69:17
99:19 104:13, 16 107:6
109:23
things 10:1 14:18 24:7
39:18 59:9 62:24 65:13
77:4 81:4, 5 124:16
think 11:24 13:23 14:4
21:18 24:22 27:2 28:5
31:9 33:23 45:10 50:5
54:1, 5, 13, 19, 23 55:16
56:2, 21, 22 59:8 88:20
89:3, 11 91:12 92:5, 16
97:18 101:19 102:16, 16
111:17 113:11
thinking 27:13 38:4
39:14 40:17 42:25 65:3,
5 67:23 84:13 89:1
90:11 96:1 100:6
122:19
third 95:17 101:12
107:23 109:22 122:21
124:12
thought 27:12 30:2
38:3 43:22 44:13 84:13
88:14 90:11 91:24
112:10 130:2
thoughtful 42:24 88:14
thoughts 92:15
thousand 26:6 69:1
three 12:3 13:24 15:12
47:11 48:22 50:1 58:1
99:24 106:22 112:16
120:22 122:16 123:3
three-hour 105:9
threshold 69:10
thrust 122:17
tied 46:19
time 4:4 11:17 12:2, 12
14:5 16:3 17:6 18:15,
16 21:21 25:18 30:25,
25 31:10, 14 35:20
36:13 37:7 38:5 44:13
60:10 61:8 66:6 68:19,
23 69:3 70:13 71:9
74:14 76:9, 24, 24 77:22
80:15 84:23 85:15 86:8
87:9, 18 88:23 90:13
100:4, 7, 12 101:20, 21
102:22 104:20 107:7
109:11 112:12, 18
119:16 121:3 126:10, 18,
19, 22, 25 136:4, 5
timeline 61:13, 19
timelines 77:2
times 20:7, 10
title 13:9 19:11
today 50:5 55:12 68:20
92:16 99:22 102:12
112:11 118:19, 21
124:17 128:19 131:4
told 15:17 23:4 24:7,
10 29:3 44:8, 8 52:25
64:1 69:13 70:19 76:9
93:24 95:22 96:1
115:22 116:22 117:22
126:18 131:1
top 85:24 86:4 100:1
101:18 105:17
tour 74:1, 3, 5, 11
tours 74:8
track 73:15, 25
training 59:11
transcribed 136:8
transcript 100:20 134:9,
11
transcription 136:8
transcripts 135:23
transition 59:10
treat 7:23
tried 11:2 39:8
troop 37:22
true 25:6, 7, 11 59:13
61:14 62:11 100:14
107:25 108:11, 21 109:2,
6, 10, 13 111:11, 14
136:10
trust 125:5, 10, 24
126:15
trusting 126:3
try 4:10 8:20 10:9
16:3, 3
trying 12:22, 24 15:14
42:12 73:23 99:22
126:2 130:1
turn 25:2 27:25 100:23
turned 70:7
two 3:9 23:2 25:8
30:23 34:3, 8 37:20
40:1 42:14, 16 43:15
63:18 73:15 77:11 83:6
99:10 107:16 112:16
128:2, 7, 23 129:17
twofold 73:10
type 48:8
typically 18:1 29:11
62:16, 18 63:13 74:6
92:9, 13 96:16
<U>
Uh 102:8
uh-huh 4:10
ULP 59:24 60:7 61:18,
20 77:19, 22, 24 78:13,
21 79:7 126:11
ULPs 60:4 126:10
Ultimately 34:6 108:9
Um 18:1, 15 27:8, 8
29:7 38:1 54:5 57:9
75:23 101:3, 13, 19, 21
104:1
unanimously 86:3
understand 4:5 25:15
27:16 39:8 57:5 75:20
88:18 90:7 96:19
127:12
understanding 27:4
30:23 36:20 42:15
44:24 56:25 61:22 65:3
90:3 94:6
understood 9:6 36:6
38:4 75:10
undertake 62:20
unethical 9:11 20:17
62:3 69:19
unfair 124:24
union 59:19 61:4, 6
86:10 125:6, 11, 12, 25
unions 59:16
union's 59:20
unit 5:23
University 6:18
unsatisfactory 32:13
unsettled 91:25
unsure 91:7, 9
unwillingness 114:9
updates 78:24, 24
upset 72:1
upside 81:25
use 17:5, 19, 21 81:17
118:15
utilize 75:8 85:12
utilized 77:8
utilizing 46:24 73:13
<V>
vacillated 28:23
vacillation 28:21, 22
vacuum 10:24
vague 16:10 19:17
26:20 47:4 49:25 50:10
52:12 61:1 106:19
117:18
vaguely 40:12 53:5
value 65:15
valued 27:15
Vanvalkenburgh 45:15,
17, 20 58:6
variety 29:20
verbal 4:9 10:1
Verbally 18:10 21:2, 3
version 33:17
view 54:20 55:12, 15, 25
68:7 69:14
viewed 60:13
vision 15:3 17:9 26:23
29:21 30:3, 8 33:21
34:11, 16 54:25 57:18
76:22 80:12, 14, 19
115:11 123:9 130:13
visioning 57:22
voted 86:3
vs 1:6
<W>
waiver 21:16 22:17
want 22:16 25:10, 10, 13
26:3 28:8, 9, 17 47:15
48:7 52:8, 8, 19, 25 55:1,
6 57:4 62:13, 14 64:24
72:3 81:25 91:12
106:10 107:4
wanted 17:10, 10 18:13
26:2, 4, 23 29:21 33:21
47:12, 21 50:6, 13 57:23
83:17 86:2 92:1 97:25
121:22 131:10
wanting 15:3 30:15
70:12 71:10 79:14
82:16 116:9, 24
Warne 61:14 86:1, 13,
16
warned 59:13
warnings 10:1, 3
Washington 136:21
water 101:19
way 31:16 42:7 54:24
56:20 72:4 77:8 92:9
110:6 111:3 129:14
132:8, 14
week 41:22 42:4 65:17
82:12
weekly 77:7
weeks 11:8, 20 70:15
weigh 9:12
Well 3:18 12:11 14:19
17:14 20:21 26:16 28:3
29:24 34:23 36:3 40:13
46:21 51:2 62:24 66:19
72:8 78:18 86:21 89:21
90:7 96:4 100:17
102:23 113:13, 17
115:18 116:2, 3 128:4, 8
went 12:6 24:11 30:21
113:2 128:22
we're 12:22 15:3 28:8
74:11 92:2, 2 131:6
West 120:6 135:12
We've 47:7 66:13
79:16 83:19 93:2 95:7
120:13 128:19 130:16
Williams 37:14, 17, 24
38:6, 13, 25 39:3, 9
40:15, 21 42:21 43:19
44:4, 8 46:10 51:23
60:21
Williamson 11:24 20:7,
9 21:1, 5, 24 22:10, 19,
24 23:4, 8, 13, 16 24:4
112:24 114:12 118:3
123:25 134:3, 23 135:6,
13
Williamson's 113:10
willing 76:21 112:19
wink 49:2, 3
14
wisely 54:8
wish 22:6
withdraw 86:9
withhold 8:4 16:4 130:2
WITNESS 22:13, 25
23:10 31:5, 6 81:3
82:25 99:15 103:20
105:9, 12 112:5, 9, 15, 20,
22 121:11 136:3, 12
witnesses 81:5
woman 13:4
word 75:23 99:20
116:13
words 17:4, 5, 8, 18, 19,
21, 22 25:19 104:10
115:25
work 7:16, 21 10:9
19:5 29:23 30:14, 24
33:4, 7, 9, 13 34:7, 14
35:4, 14, 22 36:23, 25
39:22 43:4, 6, 8 59:20
73:24 75:16 77:5 86:5,
6 87:8 105:18 106:10
110:23 111:3 118:9, 14,
18 120:2 129:2, 4, 13, 14
130:8 132:8, 11, 14, 14
worked 5:13, 21 6:4
59:16 93:9 121:20
working 6:1 50:24 51:1,
4 61:9, 21, 23 83:19
84:23 91:12 105:24
108:4
works 55:23 92:9
write 29:3 105:16
writes 87:19
writing 18:10 21:1
84:16
written 10:3 119:17, 18
wrong 94:17
wrote 28:5 29:8 40:4
100:16 108:8 124:6
<Y>
Yeah 3:25 24:21 58:21
75:24 82:1 91:17
100:25 103:7 112:14
year 4:18 6:8, 19, 24
9:15 15:14 24:16 26:11,
15 52:5 87:12 126:17
years 9:10 28:11 30:21
39:14 97:12
year's 62:2
Yep 100:13
yesterday 92:15
York 78:11
Youth 4:23 38:14
71:12, 19
<Z>
Zagar 108:17, 23 109:1

Colette Peters Deposition

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