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 Thai YOGA
P i c h e s t B oo n th u m e
What do YOGI DO?
Once you read these words of Gabriel thoughts and insights about the practice

Azoulay, you’ll surely find that he is of Thai massage as a form of inner and

someone who truly carries the spirit outer therapy.

of a healer in his heart. He’s work- I asked him a couple of questions

ing on an interesting project at www. about his experience with and feelings

IntegrativeThai.com, where he shares about Thai massage, and here are his

a lot of his knowledge, expertise, answers.

C l ea n i n g o u t t h e h o use that is your body.

Gabriel Azoulay
When did you receive your first Thai massage?
Funny thing is that when I was working for the
Miraval Resort and Spa in Tucson, AZ, I was
leading the week yoga retreat and staying on
property. Included with my week as the leading
instructor I got a free massage. When I called the
Spa all they had was “Thai Massage” and when
I asked further they told me it was like ‘yoga for
the lazy person.’ I still recall telling the recep-
tionist, ‘well, I do enough yoga, you don’t have
anything else?’ and they did not. So I ended up
without getting a Thai Massage then.
A few days after the retreat the yoga director
asked me about my time and my massage and
when I told her the story she could not believe I
would pass up such a wonderful session, which
peeked my curiosity and I started researching
Thai Massage and discovering a lifestyle and phi-
losophy that was rooted in all I had been study-
ing.
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I had the honor of getting a Thai Massage session
a few weeks later by a friend who also inspired
me to change my itinerary on an upcoming trip
to India and go to Thailand first and meet Pichest
Boonthume.
How is Thai Yoga different from traditional Thai
massage?
I use the words Thai Yoga to describe what
the average person considers Traditional Thai
Massage. Thai Yoga is the experience behind Thai
Massage, that you can get in any Thai Massage
shop on any street in Chaing Mai.
The real question for me and my client is what is
our intention? What is One’s intention when they
use these words?
Traditional Thai Massage for me, is the sequence
 Ashtango YOGA
Good for me GOOD FOR YOU

taught in the Old Medicine School. It is a very spe-
cific and unique sequence of movements and presses
that the client should be taken through.
By its very nature, that of being a sequence, it is very
similar to Ashtanga Yoga, where the same sequence
is done every day as a means of meditation and heal-
ing.
I like to say: ‘It’s like dusting and doing laundry.’
We all need to clean out ‘our home,’ our bodies.
That’s what the sequence of Nuad Bo’ran does, in
my opinion.
Have you ever noticed how amazing it is to walk
into your home when it is spotlessly clean?

After months with Pichest, I learned that not only It is so refreshing, reviving, healing even.
does Pichest understand the sequence he grew up
with, he knows every part of it by heart. More so, the
way he moves around the client is very efficient and
very specific. He might perform the same sequence
on different people, but what and where he presses
on the client, is just as important as where his body
is in every step of the way.

When you combine the sequence, AND the direct

intention of the practitioner to know and to feel
where their body is, and how to transition from one
position to the next, that is THAI YOGA. A yoga
practice that involves opening the bodies of both
practitioners.

This is why Pichest constantly says: ‘good for

me, good for you, good for everybody,’ and ‘Thai
Massage – good for me (the giver), heals my (the
practitioner) body, but can also destroy (if we do it
with out being aware of where we are, only doing for
the sake of the client, we will hurt ourselves).’

I call it Thai Yoga, because if we follow the

sequence, then we are doing the same thing on every
one. Which is very relaxing, very opening, and
very connecting, both to the mind-body of the cli-
ent, but also between the client and the practitioner.
Everyone connects, gets to move their body, and like
any yoga practice it is very nurturing.

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 F e e l W H A T Y O U R C L I EN T S NEE D S A R E
a very deep and sppiritual PRACTICE
The same is true in the body, if the body feels
“clean,” “refreshed,” “polished” we feel that much
closer to being “healthy,” “happy,” spacious.” The
qualities we are looking to establish in our clients.
You can also work like Master Pichest, where after
years of practice, and paying attention to the effect
of the postures, we “feel” what our clients needs are,
and we will not work according to the sequence. We
will drop the order and follow a sequence that we feel
will serve our clients the most. We might not even do
the same thing on both sides. That is true Therapy,
but that is something that you develop into, not some-
thing we learn. That’s why I keep going to Pichest.
It’s like learning to paint while living with a master.
He can not teach you painting any more, but he can
guide and inspire the painting in new directions as he
watches you perform your “art.”
I write on that in my new WebBook – www.inte-
grativethai.com, the difference between what I call
Thai Yoga, or Traditional Thai Massage, and what I
simply call Integrative Thai – where Integrative Thai
is applying what we learn from Thai Massage, from
any other massage modality we know, like sports, or
myofacia, or A.R.T, or neuromuscular, or any other
you know, we apply all our tools, in a Thai fashion
(on a futon, with clothes on), to help our clients reach
balance.
To make the point come home, remember how we
said, TTM, or TY, is just like cleaning and dusting.
I am sure you clean and dust your house the same
way every week, you have a habit on how you do it,
that you like. Well, TTM, the sequence taught by Dr.
Shivaga, in my opinion is an incredible, efficient way
to clean out the house.
However, when you spill red wine on the carpet,
do you go and clean it the same way you clean the
house? With your vacuum and such?
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Probably not. At best you would go mix new cleaning
ingredients and spend an hour just with the spot try-
ing to get it out, at worst you would go rent a heavy
duty cleaner. In either situation you would only work
on the stain and you would use a new set of tools.
Therapy, in the way that I talk about it with my cli-
ents, is like cleaning out the stain, while Traditional
Thai Massage, or Thai Yoga is like cleaning the
whole house.
Different intentions – are we trying to relax and sooth
the entire system? Or are we trying to work out and
get rid of a specific stain?
When and why did you decide to study Thai mas-
sage?
I presume I decided to study Thai that day that I
learned that I had misjudged what Thai Massage was,
boxing it into ‘yoga,’ where in fact it had a whole lot
more.
What made the deepest impact though was my first
week with Pichest.
I was only going to him to study Thai Massage before
I went to Mysore, India, and here I met a man who
truly considered Thai massage a very deep and spiri-
tual practice, a Yoga practice (yoga is not the poses
we see people doing at the gym, that is Asana prac-
tice, nice and amazing, but Yoga, in the words of Sri
K. Pattabhi Jois is ‘discovering God’).
The fact that he used the words Yoga often in relation
to Thai Massage, constantly asking us to break away
from a sequence (though the worst part for me then,
is that I did not even know a sequence very well), and
to drop our own desires, let go.
Something which we are constantly trying to do in
Yoga. To just let go and accept things as they are.
 e x p a n d i n g ENE R G I E S
l i k e a p i a n i s t P L A Y I N G T H E S C A LE S
It was that week that changed my life forever, mak-
ing me aware that Thai was the real Yoga practice,
for me. Where in Yoga only one person benefits
through meditating, or Asana practice, where as in
Thai Yoga, two people were benefitting, both people
were meditating and expanding the energies of their
bodies.
Ashtanga will always be my Asana Yoga practice,
my personal connection to the existence we call
God, but Thai Massage, that has become my ability
to serve others, in a way that is deeper than just my
Yoga teachings.
I like to believe that Dr. Shivaga created Nuad
Bor’an as a practice for the monks to gain the ben-
efits of Yoga, while serving the community. Serving
others is the Buddha’s main teaching, it is through
serving others that we reduce the suffering that we
are already making, that is constant. By serving oth-
ers we let go of our suffering and help others release
from theirs.
You studied with Pichest Boonthume and Enzo
Coribello. Why did you chose to study with them?
Can you talk about their teaching styles and your
experiences as a student?
I chose to study with Pichest because my friend in
Tucson told me that is who she studied with and that
he was an amazing person. She had spent two weeks
with him. I had no idea what to expect, coming from
the Yoga world, I thought he would teach me what
to do step by step, and thus I went to Thailand with
very minimal training, just one weekend worth of
Thai Massage in the local Massage school.
I was not very good.
But Pichest inspired me, from the first meeting we
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had at his house on the Sunday I landed, and seeing
how his garage is like a temple, to the last time I
saw him right after my son was born 18 months ago.
At the end of the first week though, I went and
studied at Loi Kroh, and that taught me the entire
sequence.
So when I landed in Mysore, I had learned the entire
sequence of Traditional Thai Massage, though hav-
ing hardly any practice in it.
But India is cheap, and I was offering my massages
for $5. I was able to practice 2 and 3 hour ses-
sions, watching my memory of the exact sequence,
because even in my one week with Pichest I saw
him once go through his sequence, and he knew the
sequence like the back of his hand.
Like a pianist playing the scales.
Pichest knew each and every step, not like what
we see today, where practitioners are not quite sure
about the steps or the order.
Pichest knew, and would modifiy when he
“worked” based on what he “felt” the client needed,
but he sure knew the entire sequence.
A week before I left the USA I was practicing at
my primary teacher’s Ashtanga Studio, and one of
the students and I chatted at the end of Mysore that
morning about my upcoming trip to Mysore, India,
and Thai Massage came up, when she mentioned
that there was a guy in India that does Thai and that
she thought he was amazing.
I did not remember his name when I arrived, but
one morning sitting at a local breakfast hangout,
about two weeks after I arrived to Mysore, my
breakfast buddy pointed Enzo out at a near by table,
as the only one who does Thai Massage in Mysore.
 mastering TRANSITIONS
a b i z a r r e Q UE S T I O N
I had booked a Thai Massage session with Enzo,
we chatted about Thailand and my experience with
Pichest, whom he had heard about but never met.
At that first massage Enzo explained how he was very
traditional and will be going through a modified por-
tion of the TTM sequence as taught in Old Medicine
School. It was a 90 minute, silent, very sequence based
experience, which left me glowing.
I knew Enzo had mastered transitions and manipula-
tions and when I heard he was teaching a small group,
I signed up.
Where Pichest demonstartes exact knowledge of
where to be, how to step in order to transition from
one move to the other, Enzo describes it, in great
detail.
It was Enzo that inspired me to teach Thai Massage
like I teach Yoga, “your foot here, your knee there,
your hand here, now lean 1-2-3-2-1.”
I constantly give thanks to Pichest, Enzo, and my best
friend David Johnson, who has taught me how to talk
with simplicity and the difference between Massage
and Therapy.
How many years have you been practicing Thai yoga
massage now? What were particularly memorable
experiences you had?
I have been practicing Thai Yoga now 7 years. The
most memorable experiences I have had… there are
many. But I will choose two:
The first Monday with Pichest, at the end of the morn-
ing prayer, Pichest turned to face us and asked: ‘what
do Yogi do?’ in his beautifully Thai accented English.
Such a question I now know is repeated often, yet that
was the first time I had ever heard it, yet I have yet to
be in the room where Pichest did not have to repeat
it twice, as if we English speakers did not understand
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‘what do yogi do?’
It’s just such a bizarre question, as most of us think we
know the answer, ‘yogi does yoga.’
But no one ever really offers an answer, and no one
ever says the right answer (and those of us who know
the answer simply enjoy watching Pichest say it).
Pichest will then sit tall, and tracing a fingers in a large
circle around his body he will say: “Yogi sits, Yogi
feels.” Meaning, a yogi sits and feels his body from
the inside out.
Thai Massage is something we should learn to feel
from the inside.
Which makes this second experience so dramatic for
me. This was many months after I first met Pichest.
Perhaps my 5th visit, where my last few were long
extended ones, where I learned a little about Pichest’s
life with Thai, how a specific lady helped him reframe
how he worked with Thai, and more importantly
how he prayed and taught Thai. On this late morning,
Pichest was working on someone’s shoulder, in an
advanced position, where he looks at me and pointed
out where and why he was pressing. Helping the side
of the neck of the client, though the way he was sit-
ting, and the way his forearm fit into his stomach as
he was shifting his body weight onto the student, was
massaging his own internal organs.
It was clear to me that moment that every movement
he was doing took into consideration how to help the
other, but also how to help himself.
It was clear to me one of the messages that he teaches,
Thai Massage is the way the practitioner helps their
body, or not.
You either act like a Yogi and know step by step where
you are and what is happening, or you are not.

o p e n H E A RT
And if you are not, you are risking a chance to hurt
yourself.
‘And then who help you?’ Pichest likes to ask. ‘You
do, do, you dodo, help others, but no help yourself.
You no feel, only do, but no feel.’
What’s the most common thing you hear people say- one to work on every day… Something that can prove
ing about how they feel after your treatments?
Amazing. This was the best massage I every had. I feel to help us clean our home, while “cleaning” out their
so energized. How come I never heard of this before.
These and similar type sentiments or words are things
I head over and over again.
Especially when all we do is Traditional Thai Massage
(a sequence based, full body session).
What are the physical requirements a person should
possess if he or she wants to study with you?
You should be comfortable moving on your knees,
that’s all that is required to study with me.
Whether you will practice it or not…that is the real
question.
Thai Massage is an active practice. That’s why I use
the word Yoga again. It is a Yoga practice for the one
giving it.
If you are not comfortable doing Sun Salutation (not
ashtanga where you jump back and forward, but rather
the sivananda one, where you step one leg back),
chances are you will never give a Thai Massage ses-
sion.
However, you might never have done Sun Salutation,
and never worked out in your life before, but are look-
ing for something that you can feel moves your body,
Thai Yoga is the best thing for you.
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I f e e l s o ENE R G I Z E D
You learn very specific positions of where your body
goes, and now you get to go practice them. If you
practice what I teach you, the way I teach you once a
day, you will be surprised at the levels of fitness, flex-
ibility and happiness you experience within a week.
The only issue with that is that you need to have some-
more challenging, to find someone we can just “use”
house.
What qualities should a good Thai Yoga practitioner
develop in your opinion?
A good Thai Practitioner needs to develop the skills
of connecting with their breath, being able to follow
their breath for the duration of practice (if you can stay
with your own breath, you will be amazed at how con-
nected your session will become).
Lightness, or open heart, which simply means you are
forgiving, to yourself, when you make a mistake, and
to the client, when you realize they are not as flexible
as you had hoped, or if they are super flexible.
These two skills can also be thought of as mindfulness,
where mindfulness simply teaches us to be “aware”
– aware of your body or your breath, where are they
at any one time, and just as important “acceptance” –
accept what ever is happening as you continue doing
what you are suppose to be doing. Be aware that you
forgot where you are going, or that you are breathing
too fast, and then accept the situation without trying
to control it, rather keep flowing with what you are
doing, or simply notice the next breath and allow it to
be more relaxed than the previous one.
Mindfulness will automatically fill you with metta
– which is loving-kindness. If you are aware and are
accepting of yourself moment by moment, you natu-
M i n d f u l n e s s w i l l a u t o m a t i c a l l f i l l y o u w i t h M E T TA
r e f i n e d I N T EN T I O N
rally become aware and accepting of any one else,
which is the actual experience of Metta.
When you give a Thai Yoga treatment – how much
of your work is based on anatomical and physi-
ological knowledge, and how much on intuitive
awareness?
I firmly believe that you should have a solid under-
standing of the anatomy and physiology of the body
if you ever call your work Therapy. If you are sim-
ply doing Thai Yoga, you should have a base, but
the same base you have as a yoga teacher, or per-
sonal trainer is sufficient (believe me, most massage
therapists have a very rudimentary knowledge of
anatomy and physiology).
As for my work – When the client and I decide that
the session will be connecting and relaxing, I.E.
Thai Yoga – a sequence based routine, I am not very
concerned with anatomy and physiology, those are
there, but our intention is to relax, press and work
the entire body in a dance like fashion, and I will
either trust the traditional sequence, or I will trust
my intuition to guide me into a different expression
of the traditional song (remember the traditional
Thai Yoga sequence if done without every repeat-
ing a movement and never skipping any part of the
dance lasts 3 hrs).
I have seen great practitioners and my own teach-
ers, and while Pichest uses words such as ‘feel’ and
‘see inside,’ his fingers truly know exactly where he
wants to press.
Pichest does not spend the time studying the body
from Western anatomy and physiology terms,
though he applies those terms when he can.
Those of us in the West, we grew up with these
terms, there is no reason why we should not use
them, especially when our intution is not nearly
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as refined as Master Pichest, or other Masters in
Thailand.
My best friend and teacher, David Johnson, has
taught me that by knowing the physiology of the
body, with guided experience and time, we can all
FEEL exactly where muscles spindles are bunched
together, where there is a lack of blood circulation
along the myalin sheet, whether a joint is stuck, or
a muscle is actually in a concentrically long (i.e.
Restricted in an extended position) or concentrically
short (restricted in a short position) and how to treat
that body part.
But that is more Therapy, understanding how to take
the stain out of the carpet, not so much the deep, full
house cleaning which is Traditional Thai Massage
(or Thai Yoga).
You taught in Thailand for 18 months – what are
your favorite places in the Land of Smiles?
I lived in Thailand for a little over 18 months over
a course of 4 years. I taught Yoga at Absolute Yoga
and helped develop and lead their first Hot Yoga
Teacher Training program. I never try and teach
Thai Massage in Thailand, as after all, it’s Thailand,
and you can study it for cheaper any where else.
I do hope that I can one day teach in Thailand where
costs can be less than in the US, simply to share a
different experience in how the traditional dance can
be taught.
Enzo and Pichest showed me that there is a better
way to teach beginners, so that they are set off in
the best way possible, and not because it is a bet-
ter massage for the client, but because it will be a
better experience for the giver, their bodies will not
break down quickly, and in fact, if you understand
why Pichest insists on position the way he teaches
them, your body will actually heal, get stronger and
be better, without needing to pay someone else to
work on you.
I have lived in Chaing Mai, Bangkok and Samui,
and traveled in Krabi.
I must admit that I love the water and the sun in
the Islands, but Thailand will always be the home
of my teacher, Pichest, and when ever I am in
Thailand, if I am not in Chaing Mai, I feel as if I
am away from ‘home.’
Chaing Mai is my favorite city in Thailand, and
now not only because it is so close to Hang Dong
where my teacher lives, but also because the
To learn more about Gabriel, visit his website:
www.GabrielAzoulay.com
For more Thai Massage Interviews, visit:
www.TraditionalThaiMassage.net
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culture in the North seems more rooted in it’s
Buddhist tradition. Obviously it is every where,
but where else can you see a three hour parade of
all the temples, with the school students dressed up
and performoing traditional dances and offerings
as they walk through the town from the East gate
to the West gate, while the entire town is still going
crazy with the water festival that marks the new
year (the festival of Pi Mai, the new year), or the
gathering of people along the river to send up into
the sky, in a unison fashion the Krathongs, on Loi
Krathog, the river festival?