Indo Caribbean Genealogy

Indo-Caribbean Genealogy
Posts from
soc.genealogy.west-indies
for the years 1996-2007

Richard B. Francis
Sep 1 1996, 3:00 am
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.west-indies
From: Richard B. Francis <Y...@ix.netcom.com>
Date: 1996/09/01
Subject: St. Lucia families: Cheddie, Kisna, Rattie, Merahie, and Ramdath
I am looking for any help that anyone can provide on finding information about
the St. Lucian families (of East Indian descent) of Cheddie, Rattie, Kisna,
Merahie, and Ramdath. It has been passed down from older family members that
our families were brought to the Caribbean to work on the sugarcane
plantations there. Some siblings went to St. Lucia others were sent to
Trinidad and maybe even Guyana.
I am also interested in any source of information that may help me trace these
families' genealogy in India.
Richard B. Cheddie
May 24 1997, 3:00 am
From: "Richard B. Cheddie" <Y...@ix.netcom.com>
Date: 1997/05/24
Subject: Records of East Indians in St. Lucia by Plantation Families
Here is a response that I received about the availability of records once

kept by St. Lucian plantation families concerning East Indian indentured
laborers. I shall continue to post other responses received via e-mail that
may be of help for other researchers. I encourage others to do the same.
----------
From: Drouilhet Sidney[SMTP:gal...@mhd1.moorhead.msus.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 1997 1:19PM
To: Francis, Richard
Subject: Re: Plantation Families
Not only does my family have no records of its estates in St Lucia, it

has almost completely lost all knowledge of its past. Some branches of the
family did not even know we were from St Lucia. Everything I have found
concerning my family, and more broadly, St Lucia history in general, was
done from scratch by going to archives and libraries.
From: apl...@sunbeach.net
Date: 1999/05/09
Subject: [CARIBBEAN-L] Indian migration
The copyright of the below two pieces belongs to Shamshu DEEN, of Trinidad.
Anyone wishing to do so
may contact him at sham...@tstt.net.tt
================================================
NEVIS' Early INDIANS
Shamshu Deen
21/03/98
In my continuing look at the Caribbean Indian diaspora, I examine this week
the documentation on indentured Indians in Nevis. This is a follow-up of an
article I did on the sister island of St. Kitts (see Independent of March
7, 1998).
Nevis is a fascinating island, geographically and historically. Volcanic in
origin the towering Nevis Peak hovers over this whole island and clearly
visible from just about anywhere. At 3232 feet, it is higher than our El
Cerro del Aripo, 3085, Trinidad's highest mountain. Recent events show the
interconnections of vulcanicity in that with every eruption at the
Soufriere Hills volcano, Montserrat, the residents at Charlestown, Nevis,
reported that the water from their hot spring ran cold!
Historically, Nevis has had some impressive settlers and visitors over its
road of time.
Archaeological excavations show that the first inhabitants went there about
four thousand years ago. On November, 1911, Christopher Columbus' vessels
anchored off the coast. In 1907 the explorer, Captain John Smith, whose
memory was recently revived in the movie, Pocahontas, spent several days at
Nevis on his way to found the Virginia colony in North America.
Nevis was the birth place of Alexander Hamilton who later went to America
and became the Secretary of the United States Treasury. Africans also came
in large numbers to work as slaves.
Today they form the largest population group. And in 1874, the lone voyage
of Indian indentured workers arrived from Calcutta.
Perhaps what is most praiseworthy is the serious and successful attempt by
the authorities and interested personnel to preserve the island's rich and
diverse history. The Nevis Historical and Conservation Society ( NHCS ), "
Was founded in 1980 to conserve the natural and cultural history of Nevis
by collecting artifacts and archival materials, publishing pertinent
information and researching and making information available."
With those objectives in mind the NHCS opened the Museum of Nevis History
at the birth place of Alexander Hamilton and the Horatio Nelson Museum
followed in 1992. The friendly, helpful and courteous staff led by Mr.
Robinson acceded to my every request for material and for photocopying at a
minimal cost.
It was at this Nelson Museum in Charlestown that I was able to find
publications and handwritten registers verifying the arrival of Indians to
this island. In a publication Caribbean Migrants,Richardson, 1993, it was
noted, " On March 30, 1874, 315 Indians came to Nevis. During their
indenture period many were homesick and lonely, and some broke their
contracts in order to migrate to Trinidad. The others were offered
re-indenture contracts after their five-year periods had expired, but they
chose to remain on Nevis as free labourers."
The point about coming to Trinidad was verified by the family stories of
the Mustaphas of El Socorro who claimed that their ancestor, Sheikh
Mujaffar Ali, had rebelled against his masters and had come to Trinidad;
subsequent searches showed that he had come from Nevis.
Throughout the documents of the 1870's and 1880's I found references of the
presence of Indians in Nevis. The 1874 Blue Book of Nevis showed that with
the introduction of the Indians, 4993 pounds sterling of the island's total
expenditure of 11,149 pounds was spent on Indian immigration. Two acts were
passed in that year; one on March 24 was "to raise a sum of money for the
purpose of assisting to defray the expenses of the introduction of Coolie
Immigrants,";the other on April 9, "to raise a further sum of money for the
purpose of assisting to defray the expenses of the introduction..."
The arrival of that ship from Calcutta was by far the most important and
largest single maritime activity affecting the people of Nevis for 1874.
The crew was the most thirty five, and with a tonnage of 974, outstripped
the total of five voyages of 880 tons from Britain. From Trinidad there was
a tonnage of twenty four; at that time Nevis held a favourable balance of
trade with Trinidad which sent coconuts, pickled fish, cocoa and timber in
exchange for sheep and horned cattle.
The early years for the Indians must have been difficult ones. For 1874 and
1875, court
convictions by and against them were well over 120; this gradually declined
to just 27 in 1880, as they settled and were more easily accepted by the
Nevisian society.
It would seem that due to the small number of Indians requested by, and
eventually taken to Nevis that their emigration from India was handled by
the Guiana Emigration Agency at 8 Garden Reach, Calcutta. This agency had
in 1880 requested of the President's office in Nevis, a report on the
condition of the Indians. To this the acting President Spencer Churchill
replied on August 14, 1880, " I beg to state that all the Indian immigrants
were freed from their indentureship in April 1879."
The point about Guyana supervision is made here in that more detailed
documentation might be available from the National Archives of that
country.
Concerns on the welfare of the Indians were expressed in another letter of
July 5, 1880, when Mr Spencer addressed the questions of "attendance of
Coolie children in the schools,...... whether they have generally at this
time acquired sufficient acquaintance with our language colloquially to
enable them to profit by the masters' instructions .....do they attend
divine service either singly or in families......what numbers of their
children have been baptized ?"
The question of repatriation was also addressed in Mr. Churchill's letter
of May 14, 1881, which stated, "I am directed by his Excellency the
Governor to forward by R.M. Steamer to Grenada for shipment per SYRIA (the
sailing ship that came to Trinidad with Indians between 1872 and 1878) to
Calcutta the coolies named respectively Santokho and Bhugwantia enclose
copies of correspondence on the subject and I shall be glad to be advised
of the departure of these persons."
In the documents at Nevis however I could not find the list of the names of
the Indians who arrived in 1874. Such a list should still be available and
I was assured that there were more documents awaiting classification and
would soon be available to researchers.
Two positive notes on my research in Nevis the first was that I met
descendants of that voyage of 1874 both in Nevis and their relatives here
in Trinidad. These would be discussed in a subsequent article. The second
was for other Caribbean genealogists there is "The Complete Book of
Emigrants 1700-1750" by Peter Wilson Coldhan, 1993, which gives passenger
listings from which one might trace ancestry.
_____________________________________________________________
INDIA-- NEVIS TRINIDAD
Shamshu Deen 28/03/98
It would seem as if the same way Chinatown served as a concentration for
many Chinese immigrants to New York city and also how many cities have
their little Italy or little Greece, so too did Trinidad serve as a place
for the settling of peoples from various groups. Some Indians, coming in
small numbers to other Caribbean islands during the period of
indentureship, attracted by the resources and the chance to be with their
countryfolk made the journey south.
These islands each required a smaller quota not only because they were,
with the exception of Jamaica, much smaller in size than Trinidad but also
because as Richardson, 1983, suggested, "Neither ( British Guiana nor
Trinidad ) had suffered the environmental degradation wrought by decades of
cane cultivation in the 'old' (British) islands of the Caribbean but both
needed maintenance, field work and reconstruction of rainforest and
mangrove swamps to fields of sugar cane."
When the first and only boat of indentured Indians from Calcutta to Nevis
in 1874, the 315 souls were distributed to several estates. Some left
during their five years, some soon after and the others remained on the
island.
Though so far I have not been able to find the listing of the names of
Indians who arrived in St.Kitts (1861) and Nevis, I have found documents
and publications which offered assistance as to the status of the present
day families. Richardson, 1983, stated, "Today in the late 20th century,
the only noticeable vestige of this immigration on the two islands is a few
Indian families in the Cotton Ground village area of Nevis north of
Charlestown.
Among the early Indians there was a lot of intermarriage among the jahajis
and later on among the children of the jahajis. Many soon took Christian
names. According to Byron, 1981, "In typical Indian tradition, young Indian
Thomas girls were married to Indian Sucheron youths and so forth.
And in most cases there were many Indian children of Nevis birth."
I visited two such families while in Nevis. The first was and old man, John
Henry, born in 1903, and presently living in the village of Fountain, a few
miles north east of Charlestown. He was only four years when his father
died. His father had come as a little boy from India his being on that 1874
ship was perfectly logical.
>From Mr. John Clarke, born 1926, at Cotton Ground village I got a fair
amount of information on his family background. Both sets of his
grandparents had come from India. His paternal grandfather, Bhagirath,
adopted the name of Clarke and married an Indian from St. Kitts. Their son
was Fred Clarke and daughters, Mary and Edna, both of whom had migrated to
New York.
Fred remained in Nevis and married Olive, the daughter of Paray and Mary,
both of whom had come from India. Olive's siblings all migrated most going
to the USA. "Fred and his teacher-oriented wife," according to Byron, "were
determined that their children should be given every educational
opportunity possible, and many of them were sent to universities and other
educational institutions abroad. Few had returned to Nevis."
John, a son to Fred and Olive, was a government agricultural development
officer and eventually became the head of the Agricultural Department in
Nevis. In this capacity he visited Trinidad on different occasions and was
able to re-establish ties with his Trinidad cousins.
John's maternal grandmother, Mary, was a Mungroo. Her brother, William, as
a little boy, had joined a Nevis Indian migration to Trinidad in the
1880's. Here he married a fellow Nevis Indian, Alice Lulu, and settled in
Malabar, Arima. They rented a house but after a few years of hard work on
the public roads, William bought several acres, which he eventually gave to
his children, Bojou, John, Edgar ( Sonny ), Arthur, Edith and Mary.
As youngsters the sons worked on the San Jose estate in Lopinot where they
earned between 6 and 12 cents a day picking and bagging cocoa. This was
during the 1920's and 1930's.
Arthur married Gertrude whose parents Nanhoo and Florence Stephens had also
come from India via Nevis. Arthur worked with WASA where he became an
inspector. His children have become associated with horse racing. Joy
Mungroo works at Santa Rosa. Michael Mungroo was a jockey in the 1960's and
1970's; he rode freelance in Trinidad and Tobago and also Barbados. Some of
his winners were Debonnaire, Orlando, Bulldozer and Back to Nature. Ralph
is a trainer and owner of horses kept at the Santa Rosa stables.
I was fortunate to meet Sonny Mungroo ( 1913 ), the last surviving child of
William, at his daughter's grocery in Talparo. After his stint as a cocoa
labourer, he worked at the US base at Wallerfield where he did brush
cutting and sanitation. He also worked for the Government Cocoa Board at
Carapo and at La Reunion estate in Chaguaramas. He married Basdaye Sukhu of
Diego Martin in an Anglican ceremony when she was called Nazarene.
They had 12 children and lived at Malabar. With Basdaye's death in 1983,
and a stroke Sonny suffered in 1985, he moved in with his daughter, Angela,
and her husband, V.S. Naipaul (Vincent Sankar ).
The inter-island connection has been kept alive over the years. In 1926,
Sonny's father, William visited Nevis and met his sister, Mary, and nieces
and nephews, one of whom, Edward, came to Trinidad a few years later. Mr.
John Clarke's visits have revived and reestablished ties among the
relatives of our two twin island states.
Byron, 1981, lamented, "But most of the Indian families that enriched the
life of Nevis in the distant past have gone. They have migrated to other
lands where they do well. Of course a not inconsiderable number has become
thoroughly mixed with the rest of the native population.....Nevis would
appear to have become too small to continue to support the lives and
ambitions of the descendant Indian families who came to this land more than
100 years ago."
Hopefully my recent contacts with St.Kitts/Nevis and also the Public
Records Office and National Maritime Museum both in London would yield
those valuable lists of 1861 and 1874, as we continue to examine the
arrival of various peoples to the Caribbean and then their subsequent
movements worldwide.
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Jun 26 2002, 10:48 pm

From: "Richard B. Cheddie" <yud...@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 22:47:45 -0400
Local: Wed, Jun 26 2002 10:47 pm
Subject: Some Individuals in St. Lucia and Grenada circa 1891
The following bits of data was collected from the East Indies to St. Lucia
by Surgeon-Major D.W.D. Comins, Protector of Emigrants, Calcutta. Printed
at the Bengal Secretariat Press in 1893
St. Lucia
1. Budhu, age 20, son of Parabu. Caste: Turki Koiri from Azamgarh
District, Mohmadambad Thana, Walidpur village. Uncle's name Gulap, son of
Domon. Budhu signed a Form of Agreement for Intending Emigrant to St. Lucia
on 15 Dec 1890 in Ghazipur, India
2. Pay list of Crown Lands Estate for the week ending 3 April 1886:
Gujadhur, Horill, Hulass, Hoossanys, Intame, Joodhester, Joonab, Kalkasings,
Kehane, Kessowar, Khiroda, Lachiman, Lakpetia, Lukkia Dilloo, Maimra,
Manchoo, Mengaul, Mucktolia, Munnoosings, Naga, Najtookallys, Panchoo,
Pemya, Phobagra, Poonia, Pajne, Prionauth, Raghoo, Rampaul Girlya, Rampaul
Sanker, Rumsumhin, Ramyad, Resmu, Rutnu, Salamutalu, Snodunden, Shazjada,
Shajurb, Sabnath, Simroo, Somnar Mengaul, Sukba, Sookhan, Sookra, Somra
Lalloo, Somra Nimmur, Sarukissen, Sutraton, Sucknu, Jakam, Burdia, Bundoo.
3. Pay list of Crown Lands Estate for week ending 10 April 1886: Note
different spellings for same names listed for 3 Apr 1886: Agnoocea, Augmo,
Baijoo, Ballea, Barhoo, Bhagobutty L., Bhagobutty Ram, Bagwansahaie,
Bhulloo, Beekham, Button Napoo, Bissessur, Bissessuree, Boodhun, Bundhoo,
Bundhea, Boodna, Chakowree, Chootra, Chowtie, Chujjoo, Chumme, Dagull,
Donie, Dilchandsingo, Doola, Dorlaum, Ekwara, Fokeer Mahomed, Gopee,
Gujadhur, Horli, Hulass, Hoossany, Jutame, Joorhester, Jomal, Kalkasingo,
Kihane, Kessmar, Khiroda, Luchiman, Lukpotia, Lukhina, Lukkia Dilloo,
Mainwa, Manchoo, Mingnul, Mucktolia, Munnoosing, Naga, Naytookally, Panchoo,
Penya, Phobagra, Poonea, Payne, Prionath, Raghoo.
4. Bhowanibhick, age 55, son of Chowpaie ,5' 7.25",who originally came on

the Foyle (number 4) in 1880 to St. Lucia is registered to return to
Calcutta, India on the Hereford, which sailed on 4 Sept 1890, with his wife
and at least 3 children. He last worked on Crown lands.
5. Sukram age 38, son of Mungha, 5' 2.5", who originally came on the Bann
(number 237) in 1881 to St. Lucia elected bounty of 10 Pounds on 6 Mar 1891.
He had a wife. He last worked at the Roseau estate
6. Dhowday , age 31, son of Onsori, 5' 4.5", who originally come on the
Bann (number 228) in 1881 to St. Lucia elected to return to India. He had a
brother. He last worked at the Roseau estate.
7. Hunoomansing, age 35 who came on the Bracadaile (register number 1467 and
wife register number 1468) in 1884 was assigned to the Dennery Usine in
September. He appeared to have died on 27 Nov 1884.
8. Hosanee, General Register number 1033, of Roseau Estate, received a

certificate of exemption from labor on March 9, 1886.
9. Dhoni of Marguis Estate, who came to St. Lucia on the Leonidas in 1878,
was imprisoned on 7 Sept 1878 for 14 days. Register number 415.
10. Thaibdin, age 35, son of Oree, 5'5" was listed as number 278 in the
General Register of Return Immigrants. He originally came to St. Lucia on
the Leonidas (number 205) in 1878, left on the Moy (number 183) on 5 Sep
1888. He was last employeed at Perle Estate.
11. Badari, age 22, son of Chadhary, came to St. Lucia on the Bracadaile in
1884. His ship number 480 and register number 1625. He was a Kurmi by caste.
He was assigned to the Bois d'Orange Estate.
12. Narrain son of Loroton deposited 16 pounds in the Moy (ship number 272)
for the return voyage on 5 Sept 1888.
13. Motee registered 2 Pounds, 10 Shillings on 11 Mar 1885 to be sent to

Teeka
14. Ondhar, who came on the Foyle (number 53) in 1880 died on25 March 1883.
His 13 Pounds, 14 Shillings, and 11 pence were sent to India on 13th Jun
1880
15. Bhookul age 43, son of Augnoo elected for bounty of 10 Pounds on 19 June
1888. He originally came on the Leonidas in 1878. He was assigned to the
Esperance Estate.
Rambaran, age 25, son of Nimuth (Nimuta), 5" 0.5", was of the Ahir caste.
He was from Ghazipur. He left Calcutta on the SS Roumania ( Ship's number 4)
in 1891. He worked both for the Dennery Company, LTD (La Caye Estates) and
St. Lucia Central Sugar Factory Company, LTD (Crown Lands Estate).
16. Some individuals listed on Crown Land Estates circa 1891: Buckwala,
Bowdha, Bundheo, Bundhoo, Eddhay, Sawonbar, Juspersad, Rohi, and Reetai.
17. The following individuals had money in the treasury, but upon death
there was no heir to be found: Jecan, Purboll, Horill, Oudhai, Chingan,
Budal, Kullu, and Sonichara. The highest amount at the time was 13 Pounds,
14 Shillings, and 11 Pence belonging to Oudhai. This amount was lodged in
the treasury on 13 June 1889.
18. Durma came on the Bracadaile in 1885. Worked as a Chaukidar on the

Roseau Estate.
19. Ram Dass was employed by the Ressources Estate according to the pay list
dated 25 Apr 1891.
20. Anwar, worked at Ressources Estate during 1891.
21. Oomur, worked at Ressources Estate during 1891.
22. Purmanon had a bania shop on Ressource Estate during 1891. So did Debi.
They both most likely came to St. Lucia on the Bracadaile in 1884. Kali
Pershad sold rice and dal on the Ressource Estate during 1891.
23. Umeer Sing, only son of a mother still in India in 1891. Had accepted
the 10 Pound bounty and had no intentions of going back to India. He was a
Chettri by caste (Kstriy). He had a wife and two children. He most likely
either came to St. Lucia on the Foyle or Bann.
24. Ramnath (boy) was employed by Retraite Estate during 1891
Grenada
1. William Murray, after he became a Christian adopted this name from his
former master. He owned a shop and a small cocao plantation. He also
imported from America.
2. De Gale, also adopted his name from his former master. He owned private
property and had a provision shop. He gave the Cooly Mission the land to
build its school as a present.
3. Udalli owned land and ran a shop. He was into horse racing. His son
George Udalli was a clerk in the Police Magistrate's Office.
4. Cooman Sing ran a shop.
St. Vincent
1. Macleod had changed his name.
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Cyril Jardine
May 28 1999, 3:00 am
From: cjard...@erols.com (Cyril Jardine)
Date: 1999/05/28
Subject: [CARIBBEAN-L] Indian Migration to Jamaica
Because Trinidad is almost 50% Asian Indian, there seems quite a lot of
literature available. My interest is whether there was a similar migration
to Jamaica and what info is available. My grandfather, bearing an Indian
surname: Toolsie (Tulsie?), came to US from Trinidad, but was born in 1873
in Jamaica. This info came from the ship's log at the US National Archives.
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Richard B. Shiva-Ram Cheddie

Aug 14 1999, 3:00 am
From: "Richard B. Shiva-Ram Cheddie" <Yud...@ix.netcom.com>
Date: 1999/08/14
Subject: Ugheer Passenger List?
I am looking for any listing of the passenger list for the Ugheer which
transported East Indian indentured laborers to Guyana in the late 1800's. A
relative of mine, Nuk Cheddie, was transported on that vessel along with his
two sisters. They worked on teh Diamond Estate in British Guiana, where he
was the Head Driver. He married a Sookia Singh and had ten children.
I will be posting his genealogy on my website:

www.geocities.com/TheTropics/Resort/5913
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Ruth - Ann
Jul 19 2000, 3:00 am
From: ruthann...@hotmail.com (Ruth - Ann)
Date: 2000/07/19
Subject: surnames: soodeen, premdas, bunsee
Hello all,
I've been lurking for the past couple of weeks and have read through many
posts in the archives. I've just recently embarked on my own genealogical
research and I've found some very useful information from this list - thanks
for sharing!
Anyway, looking for info for my family has been quite difficult - I do have
a chapter from Anthony de Verteiul's Eight East Indian Immigrants on my
great-grandfather, Charles Clarence Soodeen, which is where most of my info
is from (unfortunately I don't have the list of references and I can't seem
to find the actual book!). He emigrated from India to Trinidad in 1861
(aboard the clarence - this is when he got his name - but I can't seem to
find any records of that ship). He was prominent among the presbyterians,
working mostly with teh Canadian Mission (yes, I've contacted the canadain
presbyterian archives, but I can't afford to pay $25/hr for a search with
only a possibility of finding mentions of his name)
I'd also like to find out about his first wife, Laura Jane Frances Heath
(all I know about her is that she was an "englishwoman" and they married in
1872; she died the following year)
I also went to the local LDS family history centre but records for Trinidad
are next to nil!
Anyway, if anyone can give me any leads re finding info about the soodeens,
or even premdas (Francis Arnold I believe is my grandfather's name -
originally from Guyana, but I don't know the years) that would be great.
Finally, does anyone have contact info for Trinidad historian Anthony de
Verteiul?
Thanks in advance for any help!
Ruth-Ann Soodeen
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fmwade
Jul 31 2000, 3:00 am
From: fmw...@supanet.com
Date: 2000/07/31
Subject: Estate books of Trinidad
Does anyone know where one can find the Estate Books of the various sugar estates in
Trinidad during the period of slavery and also during the period of Indian indentureship?
Hoping someone can help me.
Flavia Wade
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Richard Bond
Jul 31 2000, 3:00 am
From: RichardB...@webtv.net (Richard Bond)
Date: 2000/07/31
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I think they are all over the place, some are still at the
greathouses, others are in museums and some in Antiquarians. Some of
them could be in London or New York. They were private property like
the books for a bar or any other business there is no one answer for all
of them.
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John Weiss
Jul 31 2000, 3:00 am
From: john.we...@virgin.net (John Weiss)
Date: 2000/07/31
Subject: Re: Estate books of Trinidad
Flavia
You can try the Registration and Compensation records in the PRO,
which are not the same as Estate Books but list every slave by
name, surname, family and description. My PRO search produced
this www address - it gives a large number of references from
class T71 [you have to join this up as one line in your browser -
it gets split in sending the e-mail]
http://catalogue.pro.gov.uk/ListInt/browse_keywords_frameset.asp
function=Next+Page&lcode=T&class=71&subclass=
or this to start a new search (I entered Trinidad, letter code T,

class 71):
http://catalogue.pro.gov.uk/ListInt/browse_keywords_frameset.asp
But I am sure you are familiar with all these records, which are
duplicated at the Red House, POS (or possibly now at the National
Archives)..
John
john.we...@virgin.net
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Dean de Freitas
Jul 31 2000, 3:00 am
From: dean...@bellsouth.net (Dean de Freitas)
Date: 2000/07/31
Subject: RE: Estate books of Trinidad
In Father Anthony de Verteuil's book "Eight East Indians", he describes

using those records at the National Archives (Red House) in Trinidad. He
notes that some of the books are in good shape, while some of them where so
fragile that he was not allowed to handle them.
Dean de Freitas
TriniGenWeb Coordinator
http://www.rootsweb.com/~ttowgw/
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Richard B. Cheddie
Aug 3 2000, 3:00 am
From: "Richard B. Cheddie" <Yud...@ix.netcom.com>
Date: 2000/08/03
Subject: Researching East Indians in the Caribbean
Here is a link for those interested in researching East Indian indentured

labourers. There is a growing list of ships that brought these laborers to
the Caribbean
http://www.egroups.com/group/Bhatchaman
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John Weiss
Aug 20 2000, 3:00 am
From: john.we...@virgin.net (John Weiss)
Date: 2000/08/20
Subject: Re: Ships and Indentured East Indians

Richard Cheddie gave a useful "minor list of ships that
Transported East Indian labourers to the Caribbean."
I see his list shows the SHEILA arriving in Surinam in 1883. She
made an earlier visit to the Caribbean, her maiden voyage (if it
is the same vessel) in 1877, leaving Calcutta on 1 Sep and
arriving in Trinidad on 13 November, landing 624 out of 626
embarked. Her journey is recorded in the Captain's account:
A Return to the Middle Passage: the Clipper Ship "Sheila", by

Captain W.H.Angel, edited by Ken Ramchand and Brinsley Samaroo
(originally published in 1921, modern edition 1995, CIS, Port of
Spain, Trinidad)
John McNish Weiss

john.we...@virgin.net
Richard B. Cheddie
Aug 29 2000, 3:00 am
Date: 2000/08/29
Subject: Re: Ships asn Indentured East Indians
I have to recheck this post. Somehow I am missing quite a few ship names and
destinations. I might have uploaded an older file by mistake. Most of this
information I gathered off of the web and through several Caribbean
associations researching East Indians. I should be receiving another
listing of ships that went to Trinidad and Guyana in the near future. If you
have any info through your own research please e-mail it to me.
It is my goal to one day have the complete list of ALL ships that
transported East Indian Labourers to the Caribbean. The most up to date list
can always be found at
http://www.egroups.com/group/Bhatchaman
This site also contains other information about sources for those of us
researching our Indian Heritage.
Richard Bond
Aug 29 2000, 3:00 am
Date: 2000/08/29
Subject: Re: Ships asn Indentured East Indians
I wonder which of St Croix's families are descended from the one boat
load that brought people from Calcutta in the 1860s. Most were
disillusioned by poor treatment and went back to India or moved to
Trinidad but a minority stayed on. There are probably some people where
we grew up who don't even realize that there patrilneals are Indian. My
great great grandfather Alfred Busby came by way of another island.
Richard B. Cheddie
Aug 27 2000, 3:00 am
Date: 2000/08/27
Subject: Updated List of Ships that Transported East Indian Laborers to the Caribbean
Basin 8-27-00
I have attempted to compile a list of ships that brought and repatriated

indentured Indians to and from the Caribbean. This list is short right now.
Just for Trinidad alone, 319 voyages were made.
ARRIVALS
DATE SHIP
COLONY
LABOURERS ARRIVED
May 5, 1838
Hesperus
British Guiana
156 of 170
May 5, 1838
Whitby
British Guiana
263 of 267
May 30, 1845

Fath Al Razak
Trinidad 225
1845
Blundell
Jamaica
???
1854
Louis Napoleon
Martinique
??
For updated lists go to http://www.geocities.com/yuddh1/gateportal.htm
Richard Bond
I think that I can get it for you but could you help me sort out the Asians on Saba and
Statia. I'm still trying to add to what I know about Alfred and Grace Busby
Oct 21 2000, 3:00 am
Date: 2000/10/21
Subject: Re: 1931 National Geographic: Saba & Statia
Reply to author | Forward | Print | Individual message | Show original | Report this
message | Find messages by this author
I think that I can get it for you but could you help me sort out the
Asians on Saba and Statia. I'm still trying to add to what I know about
Alfred and Grace Busby
Richard Bond
Oct 22 2000, 3:00 am

Date: 2000/10/22
Subject: Re: CARIBBEAN-L1931 National Geographic
As far as I have been able to piece it together Alfred was an Indian
contract laborer who may have escaped during an uprising on Nevis. Grace
was the daughter of a white with many local relatives whose mother was
an East Indian he brought back by some accounts and a Dominica Indian by
others.
When I was on Statia in 1968 I met an old woman named Busby with a
candy shop who
knew my grandmother but had not seen her in many years. I could not find
anything in the Statia records on Grace. She did have relatives named
Simmons, Solomon and Leverock. George Simmons administrator of St. John
was a relative.
Richard Cheddie
Nov 11 2000, 4:00 am

From: "Richard Cheddie" <yud...@hotmail.com>
Date: 2000/11/11
Subject: 400+ Voyages of East Indian Indentured Laborers
I finally did a major update on the list of voyages that indentured East
Indians made between 1834 and 1917.
I have many gaps in my listings so if anyone has additional info please send
it to me to include in future updates.
http://www.geocities.com/yuddh1/IndenturedShips.html
Dean de Freitas
Nov 16 2000, 4:00 am

From: dean...@bellsouth.net (Dean de Freitas)
Date: 2000/11/16
Subject: Re: {CARIBBEAN-L]Voyages of East Indian Indentured Laborers
on 11/16/00 5:06 PM, Cyril Jardine at cjard...@erols.com wrote:
> I think that since "indentured" means there was some bond or contract, there
> would have to be some records of the East Indians who arrived in the
> Caribbean. Especially since not all survived the trip and commissions were
> probably based on actual arrivals. Who would have kept these type of
> records?
> ---
> Cyril Jardine, voice: 301-881-4330, fax: 301-881-5914, cjard...@erols.com
According to Father Anthony de Verteuil in his book "Eight East Indian

Immigrants", in Trinidad there are three types of registers kept at the
National Archives:
1. General Registers - Lists of immigrants by year, boat, name, estate they

were indentured to, etc.
2. Estate Registers - Sorted by estate and gives details about an

immigrant's indenture period.
3. Ship's Registers - Lists of immigrants for each voyage including name,

age, height, place of origin, etc.
In addition, Fr. de Verteuil notes that Plantation Lists were / are kept on
the individual plantations, and duplicate much of the info in the registers.
Note also that many of the registers at the National Archives are in poor
condition, incomplete, or missing.
Dean de Freitas
TriniGenWeb Coordinator
http://www.rootsweb.com/~ttowgw/
From: Christel Monsanto, promoting Caribbean Art

Nov 17 2000, 4:00 am
From: "monsanto" <monsa...@interneeds.net>
Date: 2000/11/17
Subject: Re: {CARIBBEAN-L]Voyages of East Indian Indentured Laborers
Three different ethnic groups were brought to Suriname, some of them left
after their contract was finished, others stayed, others went to other
places in the Caribbean. You can search two databases, one for laborers
from India and one from what is now Indonesia. Go to:
<<http://www.archief.nl/suriname>> A third database with Chinese workers
will be available later.
Richard Cheddie
Nov 18 2000, 4:00 am
From: "Richard Cheddie" <yud...@hotmail.com>
Date: 2000/11/18
Subject: Estates in the British Isles the Used East Indian Indentured Laborers
AutoEstate Colony EstateName
1 Trinidad Adela
2 Trinidad Arandale
3 Trinidad Aranguez
4 Trinidad Aripero
5 Trinidad Bagatelle
6 Trinidad Barataria
7 Trinidad Beaulieu
8 Trinidad Beausejour
9 Trinidad Bel Air
10 Trinidad Belle View
11 Trinidad Ben Laomond
12 Trinidad Bien Venue
13 Trinidad Birken Hil
14 Trinidad Bon Accord
15 Trinidad Bon Air
16 Trinidad Bonasse
17 Trinidad Bonne Aventure
18 Trinidad Brechin Castle
19 Trinidad Bronte
20 Trinidad Broomage
21 Trinidad Brothers
22 Trinidad Buen Intento
23 Trinidad Buenos Ayres
24 Trinidad Camden
25 Trinidad Canaan
26 Trinidad Cane Farm
27 Trinidad Carmelita
28 Trinidad Caracas
29 Trinidad Carolina
30 Trinidad Caroni
31 Trinidad Cascade
32 Trinidad Champ Elysees
33 Trinidad Cedar Grove
34 Trinidad Cedar Hill
35 Trinidad Columbia
36 Trinidad Concord
37 Trinidad Concordia
38 Trinidad Constance
39 Trinidad Corinth
40 Trinidad Coryal
41 Trinidad Craignish
42 Trinidad Cupar Grange
43 Trinidad Curepe
44 Trinidad Diamond
45 Trinidad Dinsley
46 Trinidad Dumfries
47 Trinidad Edinburgh
48 Trinidad El Dorado
49 Trinidad El Reposo
50 Trinidad El Rosario
51 Trinidad El Socorro
52 Trinidad Endeavor
53 Trinidad Enterprise
54 Trinidad Esmeralda
55 Trinidad Esperance
56 Trinidad Esperanza
57 Trinidad Exchange
58 Trinidad Fairfield
59 Trinidad Felicity
60 Trinidad Florissante
61 Trinidad Forres Park
62 Trinidad Frederick
63 Trinidad Friendship
64 Trinidad Fullerton
65 Trinidad Garden
66 Trinidad Garth
67 Trinidad Glenroy
68 Trinidad Golconda
69 Trinidad Golden Grove
70 Trinidad Green Hill
71 Trinidad Guaracara
72 Trinidad Harmony Hill
73 Trinidad Harris Plain
74 Trinidad Henry
75 Trinidad Hermitage
76 Trinidad Hindustan
77 Trinidad Hope
78 Trinidad Industry
79 Trinidad Inverness
80 Trinidad Jordan Hill
81 Trinidad La Fortune
82 Trinidad La Gloria
83 Trinidad La Horquetta
84 Trinidad La Pastora
85 Trinidad La Resource
86 Trinidad La Retraite
87 Trinidad La Romaine
88 Trinidad Las Almas
89 Trinidad Laurel Hill
90 Trinidad La Vega
91 Trinidad Laventille
92 Trinidad Les Efforts
93 Trinidad Los Angeles
94 Trinidad Lothians
95 Trinidad Macoya
96 Trinidad Malgretoute
97 Trinidad Marabella
98 Trinidad Maracaas Bay
99 Trinidad Mararaval
100 Trinidad Mausica
101 Trinidad McBean
102 Trinidad McLeon Plain
103 Trinidad Milton
104 Trinidad Moka
105 Trinidad Mon Desir
106 Trinidad Mon Jaloux
107 Trinidad Mon Plaisir
108 Trinidad Mon Repos
109 Trinidad Montrose
110 Trinidad Mt. Pleasant
111 Trinidad Mt. Stewart
112 Trinidad Nelson
113 Trinidad Ne Plus Ultra
114 Trinidad New Grant
115 Trinidad New Hope
116 Trinidad Non Pariel
117 Trinidad Orange Grove
118 Trinidad Oropouche
119 Trinidad Otaheite
120 Trinidad Plamiste
121 Trinidad Palmyra
122 Trinidad Papourie
123 Trinidad Paradise
124 Trinidad Patna
125 Trinidad Perseverance
126 Trinidad Petersfield
127 Trinidad Petite Morne
128 Trinidad Phillipine
129 Trinidad Phoenix Park
130 Trinidad Picton
131 Trinidad Plain Palaise
132 Trinidad Plaissance
133 Trinidad Poole Syndicate
134 Trinidad Providence
135 Trinidad Reform
136 Trinidad Retrench
137 Trinidad Rio Clara
138 Trinidad River
139 Trinidad Rivulet
140 Trinidad Rostant
141 Trinidad San Antonia
142 Trinidad San Felipe
143 Trinidad San Gill
144 Trinidad San Francisco
145 Trinidad San Jose
146 Trinidad Santa Clara
147 Trinidad Seville
148 Trinidad Siparia
149 Trinidad Spring
150 Trinidad St. Anns
151 Trinidad St. Augustine
152 Trinidad St. Charles
153 Trinidad St. Claire
154 Trinidad St. Helena
155 Trinidad St. Johns
156 Trinidad St. Madeleine
157 Trinidad St. Marie
158 Trinidad Stretham Lodge
159 Trinidad Suzannah
160 Trinidad Terre Promise
161 Trinidad Toruba
162 Trinidad Tortuga
163 Trinidad Trafalgar
164 Trinidad Trois Amis
165 Trinidad Union
166 Trinidad Union Hall
167 Trinidad Valsayn
168 Trinidad Verdant Vale
169 Trinidad Victoria
170 Trinidad Villa Franca
171 Trinidad Vistabella
172 Trinidad Washington
173 Trinidad Waterloo
174 Trinidad Wellington
175 Trinidad Williamsville
176 Trinidad Woodbrook
177 Trinidad Woodford Dale
178 Trinidad Waterford Lodge
179 Trinidad Woodlands
180 St. Vincent Adelphi
181 St. Vincent Bellevue
182 St. Vincent Colonaire
183 St. Vincent Grand Sable
184 St. Vincent Langley Park
185 St. Vincent Lot 14
186 St. Vincent Mt. Bentink
187 St. Vincent Mt. Greenan
188 St. Vincent Orange Hill
189 St. Vincent Rabacca
190 St. Vincent San Souci
191 St. Vincent Tourama
192 St. Vincent Union
193 St. Vincent Yambou Vale
194 St. Vincent Argyle
195 St. Vincent Arnos Vale
196 St. Vincent Belair
197 St. Vincent Belair
198 St. Vincent Calder
199 St. Vincent Cane Hall
200 St. Vincent Carapan
201 St. Vincent Glen
202 St. Vincent Montrose
203 St. Vincent Mt. Pleasant
204 St. Vincent Rivulet
205 St. Vincent Cane Grove
206 St. Vincent Pembroke
207 St. Vincent Questelles
208 St. Vincent Mt. Wynne
209 St. Vincent Peters Hope
210 St. Vincent Rutland Vale
211 St. Vincent Wallilabou
212 St. Vincent Richmond
213 St. Vincent Rose Bank
214 British Guiana Vreed-en-Hoop
215 British Guiana Vriedestein
216 British Guiana Anna Regina
217 British Guiana Diamond
218 British Guiana Belle Vue
219 British Guiana Waterloo
220 British Guiana Highbury
221 British Guiana Devonshire
222 British Guiana Non-Pareil
223 British Guiana Friends
224 Grenada Mt. Alexander Estate
225 St. Lucia Castries
226 St. Lucia Cul De Sac
227 St. Lucia Soucis
228 St. Lucia Roseau
229 St. Lucia Anse La Raye
230 St. Lucia Mabouya
231 St. Lucia Dennery
232 St. Lucia La Caye
233 St. Lucia Richfond
234 St. Lucia Retraite
235 St. Lucia Crown Land
236 St. Lucia Peru
237 St. Lucia Pelute
238 St. Lucia Blackbay
239 St. Lucia Vieux Fort
240 Jamaica Claredon
241 Jamaica Westmoreland
242 Jamaica St. Thomas
UHURUJAH
Nov 19 2000, 4:00 am
From: UHURU...@aol.com
Date: 2000/11/19
Subject: East Indian Indentured Laborers (Book)
While everyone has been on the subject of East Indian indentured labor I
thought I might mention a book I recently found. The book is Fragments of
Empire: Capital, Slavery, and Indian Indentured Labor Migration in the
British Caribbean, by Madhavi Kale. It was published by the University of
Pennsylvania Press in 1998. It is not great for finding ancestral names but
it gives a good historical background and first hand accounts of the time
from some people and of their plantations.
Hope this helps someone.
Stephanie Binns
James W. Cropper
Dec 31 2000, 5:25 pm
From: JamesW..Crop...@sympatico.ca (James W. Cropper)
Date: 31 Dec 2000 13:16:17 -0800
Local: Sun, Dec 31 2000 5:16 pm
Subject: Plantation Owners in St Vincent
Hi Listers,
There are many old plantation maps of most Islands available. Chris Cod
has made several from his personal archives available on his "Historic
Antigua and Barbuda" website.
Is anyone aware of any such maps or plans for St. Vincent? The Charles
Shephard book mentions a Plan of the Island, as published John Byres, in
1776 and lists the lot numbers. I am aware that a copy of this plan is
in the PRO in London.
The only such map I have found is in the book is entitled " Becoming
West Indian - Culture, Self and Nation in St. Vincent" by Virginia Heyer
Young in 1993. There is a map entitled "John Byres's plan for the
settlement of St. Vincent, 1764. From D.L. Niddrie, "Eighteenth-Century
Settlement in the British Carribbean," Institute of British Geographers,
publication no. 40, 1966."
The Map appears to be a computer drafted drawing with many plantations

shown on the South and West parts and with the North and East parts
comprised of Carib and undisposed of land. Much of the map is shaded
black or cross-hatched representing Cultivable, Freehold, Leasehold
etc. However, it is not to scale and no names or lot numbers are given.
Any help would be appreciated.
Jim Cropper
Tian Uddenberg
Jan 24 2002, 11:31 pm
From: t...@shaw.ca (Tian Uddenberg)
Date: 24 Jan 2002 20:30:59 -0700
Local: Thurs, Jan 24 2002 11:30 pm
Subject: Re:San Fernando Gazette Book
Craving the indulgence of the group, and as clarification:

"Lists from the san Fernando Gazette 1865-1896" will be published this
Spring, and expressions of interest were solicited off-list from people
who have in the past expressed an interest in what it contains.
Queries and comments regarding the pre-press announcement should be
addressed, off-list, to me, Tian Uddenberg, at my e-mail address above.
This will be the last posting directly to the list concerning the
pre-publication. We have both been quite careful not to breach the rules
about advertizing directly in this forum, and ask your co-operation.
Write me privately if you have an interest in the book, or a query.
What does the book contain?
Here is an overview:
Lists from the San Fernando Gazette, Trinidad, West Indies: 1865-1896 is
divided into five
sections or Books. Each Book is a set of lists containing as much detail
as is given in the newspaper itself. There are
no photos or illustrations.
Book I provides lists of property owners in the Borough of San Fernando

who are in arrears of their house rates.
Researchers will find the name of the property owner, the address of the
property, and in most cases, the name of
the tenant or tenants, if the property was rented.
Book II comprises lists of Burgesses of San Fernando. These lists

contain important information about property
ownership of individuals so qualified.
Book III is a compilation of Applications for Licenses to sell

spirituous liquors in San Fernando, and gives, among
other information, the place of residence of the applicant as well as
the address of the licensed premises. The wide
variety of surnames in these lists, including Chinese, East Indian, and
Portuguese individuals, offers a glimpse of the
extent of this entrepreneurial activity in San Fernando at the time.
Book IV is composed of two unusual lists—a Juror’s List for San

Fernando, and a list of the Victims of the
Waterspout incident of 1880 in Basseterre, St. Kitts.
Book V is an extracted list of birth, death and marriage announcements.

This section is of value also to researchers
outside of San Fernando or even Trinidad and Tobago. Announcements were
reprinted in a variety of newspapers if
there was a family connection. A number of births, marriages and deaths
are recorded that occurred in Nevis,
Jamaica, Grenada, British Guiana, England, Scotland, and Australia.
Thanks,
Tian Uddenberg ( t...@shaw.ca )
Richard B. Cheddie
Jun 26 2002, 10:48 pm
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 22:47:45 -0400
Subject: Some Individuals in St. Lucia and Grenada circa 1891
The following bits of data was collected from the East Indies to St. Lucia
by Surgeon-Major D.W.D. Comins, Protector of Emigrants, Calcutta. Printed
at the Bengal Secretariat Press in 1893
St. Lucia
1. Budhu, age 20, son of Parabu. Caste: Turki Koiri from Azamgarh
District, Mohmadambad Thana, Walidpur village. Uncle's name Gulap, son of
Domon. Budhu signed a Form of Agreement for Intending Emigrant to St. Lucia
on 15 Dec 1890 in Ghazipur, India
2. Pay list of Crown Lands Estate for the week ending 3 April 1886:
Gujadhur, Horill, Hulass, Hoossanys, Intame, Joodhester, Joonab, Kalkasings,
Kehane, Kessowar, Khiroda, Lachiman, Lakpetia, Lukkia Dilloo, Maimra,
Manchoo, Mengaul, Mucktolia, Munnoosings, Naga, Najtookallys, Panchoo,
Pemya, Phobagra, Poonia, Pajne, Prionauth, Raghoo, Rampaul Girlya, Rampaul
Sanker, Rumsumhin, Ramyad, Resmu, Rutnu, Salamutalu, Snodunden, Shazjada,
Shajurb, Sabnath, Simroo, Somnar Mengaul, Sukba, Sookhan, Sookra, Somra
Lalloo, Somra Nimmur, Sarukissen, Sutraton, Sucknu, Jakam, Burdia, Bundoo.
3. Pay list of Crown Lands Estate for week ending 10 April 1886: Note
different spellings for same names listed for 3 Apr 1886: Agnoocea, Augmo,
Baijoo, Ballea, Barhoo, Bhagobutty L., Bhagobutty Ram, Bagwansahaie,
Bhulloo, Beekham, Button Napoo, Bissessur, Bissessuree, Boodhun, Bundhoo,
Bundhea, Boodna, Chakowree, Chootra, Chowtie, Chujjoo, Chumme, Dagull,
Donie, Dilchandsingo, Doola, Dorlaum, Ekwara, Fokeer Mahomed, Gopee,
Gujadhur, Horli, Hulass, Hoossany, Jutame, Joorhester, Jomal, Kalkasingo,
Kihane, Kessmar, Khiroda, Luchiman, Lukpotia, Lukhina, Lukkia Dilloo,
Mainwa, Manchoo, Mingnul, Mucktolia, Munnoosing, Naga, Naytookally, Panchoo,
Penya, Phobagra, Poonea, Payne, Prionath, Raghoo.
4. Bhowanibhick, age 55, son of Chowpaie ,5' 7.25",who originally came on

the Foyle (number 4) in 1880 to St. Lucia is registered to return to
Calcutta, India on the Hereford, which sailed on 4 Sept 1890, with his wife
and at least 3 children. He last worked on Crown lands.
5. Sukram age 38, son of Mungha, 5' 2.5", who originally came on the Bann
(number 237) in 1881 to St. Lucia elected bounty of 10 Pounds on 6 Mar 1891.
He had a wife. He last worked at the Roseau estate
6. Dhowday , age 31, son of Onsori, 5' 4.5", who originally come on the
Bann (number 228) in 1881 to St. Lucia elected to return to India. He had a
brother. He last worked at the Roseau estate.
7. Hunoomansing, age 35 who came on the Bracadaile (register number 1467 and
wife register number 1468) in 1884 was assigned to the Dennery Usine in
September. He appeared to have died on 27 Nov 1884.
8. Hosanee, General Register number 1033, of Roseau Estate, received a

certificate of exemption from labor on March 9, 1886.
9. Dhoni of Marguis Estate, who came to St. Lucia on the Leonidas in 1878,
was imprisoned on 7 Sept 1878 for 14 days. Register number 415.
10. Thaibdin, age 35, son of Oree, 5'5" was listed as number 278 in the
General Register of Return Immigrants. He originally came to St. Lucia on
the Leonidas (number 205) in 1878, left on the Moy (number 183) on 5 Sep
1888. He was last employeed at Perle Estate.
11. Badari, age 22, son of Chadhary, came to St. Lucia on the Bracadaile in
1884. His ship number 480 and register number 1625. He was a Kurmi by caste.
He was assigned to the Bois d'Orange Estate.
12. Narrain son of Loroton deposited 16 pounds in the Moy (ship number 272)
for the return voyage on 5 Sept 1888.
13. Motee registered 2 Pounds, 10 Shillings on 11 Mar 1885 to be sent to

Teeka
14. Ondhar, who came on the Foyle (number 53) in 1880 died on25 March 1883.
His 13 Pounds, 14 Shillings, and 11 pence were sent to India on 13th Jun
1880
15. Bhookul age 43, son of Augnoo elected for bounty of 10 Pounds on 19 June
1888. He originally came on the Leonidas in 1878. He was assigned to the
Esperance Estate.
Rambaran, age 25, son of Nimuth (Nimuta), 5" 0.5", was of the Ahir caste.
He was from Ghazipur. He left Calcutta on the SS Roumania ( Ship's number 4)
in 1891. He worked both for the Dennery Company, LTD (La Caye Estates) and
St. Lucia Central Sugar Factory Company, LTD (Crown Lands Estate).
16. Some individuals listed on Crown Land Estates circa 1891: Buckwala,
Bowdha, Bundheo, Bundhoo, Eddhay, Sawonbar, Juspersad, Rohi, and Reetai.
17. The following individuals had money in the treasury, but upon death
there was no heir to be found: Jecan, Purboll, Horill, Oudhai, Chingan,
Budal, Kullu, and Sonichara. The highest amount at the time was 13 Pounds,
14 Shillings, and 11 Pence belonging to Oudhai. This amount was lodged in
the treasury on 13 June 1889.
18. Durma came on the Bracadaile in 1885. Worked as a Chaukidar on the

Roseau Estate.
19. Ram Dass was employed by the Ressources Estate according to the pay list
dated 25 Apr 1891.
20. Anwar, worked at Ressources Estate during 1891.
21. Oomur, worked at Ressources Estate during 1891.
22. Purmanon had a bania shop on Ressource Estate during 1891. So did Debi.
They both most likely came to St. Lucia on the Bracadaile in 1884. Kali
Pershad sold rice and dal on the Ressource Estate during 1891.
23. Umeer Sing, only son of a mother still in India in 1891. Had accepted
the 10 Pound bounty and had no intentions of going back to India. He was a
Chettri by caste (Kstriy). He had a wife and two children. He most likely
either came to St. Lucia on the Foyle or Bann.
24. Ramnath (boy) was employed by Retraite Estate during 1891
Grenada
1. William Murray, after he became a Christian adopted this name from his
former master. He owned a shop and a small cocao plantation. He also
imported from America.
2. De Gale, also adopted his name from his former master. He owned private
property and had a provision shop. He gave the Cooly Mission the land to
build its school as a present.
3. Udalli owned land and ran a shop. He was into horse racing. His son
George Udalli was a clerk in the Police Magistrate's Office.
4. Cooman Sing ran a shop.
St. Vincent
1. Macleod had changed his name.
"Guy Grannum"
Jun 6 2003, 5:43 am
From: g...@gcgrannum.freeserve.co.uk ("Guy Grannum")
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 09:43:05 +0000 (UTC)
Local: Fri, Jun 6 2003 5:43 am
Subject: East Indian and Chinese Indentured Immigration W.I.
This discussion has been extremely useful - in terms of bibliographies.
I wonder if anyone can offer advice on a question I posed a while ago - that
of vital records for the East Indian community.
Many, if not most, of the East Indian immigrants predated civil registration
and as most were not Christians would not be recorded in the usual Caribbean
sources - namely parish registers.
What was the practice for recording their births, marriages and
deaths/burials, if at all? May be this was oral tradition as practiced in
India. I understand that in Trinidad Muslim marriages were not recognised
until about 1936 and Hindu marriages until about 1946 - this meant that such
'married' couples were considered common-law relationship and were basically
single from a legal point of view and any children were illegitimate, this
also effected laws of probate for intestacy (dying without leaving a valid
will) and later British citizenship and belonging (as citizenship passed
through legitimate fathers).
However, for such marriages not to be recognised must mean that these
marriages occurred. Were such events written down?
I have tried numerous social histories and websites - there is plenty

describing the migrations, immigration controls and working conditions but
really there is nothing of serious use to the genealogist.
Another non-Christian group of post emancipation labourers, which again

predate civil registration, are the Chinese labourers. They first arrived in
Trinidad in 1806 although the next waves were not until the 1840s in Guyana,
Jamaica and Trinidad. Was anything recorded about their life events?
However, very few Chinese women migrated until the 1860s and I understand
that the normal practice was for Chinese men to return to China in order to
marry and would remain. But after 1860 some 'marriages' must have taken
place according to homeland practices - may be their numbers were too small
to establish their own places of worship and that births and marriages went
unrecorded. I assume that burials would occur but in the municipal
cemeteries rather than church yards.
There is an excellent site relating to the Chinese in Guyana by Trev

Sue-A-Quan at http://www.rootsweb.com/~guycigtr/
I welcome any thoughts and advice.
Thanks
Guy
----- Original Message -----

From: "Richard Allicock" <rich...@idirect.com>
To: <CARIBBEA...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Friday, June 06, 2003 9:16 AM
Subject: East Indian Indenture Immigration W.I.
> Hi Listers,
> I think I have come to the end of the research material for East Indian
Indenture Immigration to the West Indies.
> I took a look at Chedie's List on his Website "East Indian Laborers in the
Caribbean 1838 to 1930."
> I have produced some material for the places in Brackets. The places that
are unbracketed are yet to be provided for in terms of historical research

material.
> So others are free to pitch in and hlep to complete the List and the
thread.
> Please stick to the Subject line. Thanks.
> Here's the list of places done and not done:
> Belize, Fr. Guiana, Grenada, Guadaloupe, [Guyana], [Jamaica], Martinique,
Nevis, St. Croix, St. Kitts, St. Lucia, [St. Vincent], [Surinam] and
[Trinidad]
"Guy Grannum"
Richard Thank you very much for your detailed response - and for the wonderful
bibliographies. In short the answer seems to be that there are no religious records and few
state records unless the authorities needed to intervene. In common with their labouring
predecessors one needs to try plantation records and other tangential records. This means
that researchers won't be able to check the usual sources. I had forgotten about the role of
the protectors of immigrants/labourers (previously protectors of slaves) however I'm not
sure if all islands had these officials - some reports of protectors of slaves c1824-1834
can be found in The National Archives (Public Record Office) but only for Trinidad,
British Guiana and St Lucia; I know that Barbados had stipendiary magistrates that had a
similar role but I'm not aware of any reports being routinely forwarded to the Colonial
Office. I assume that if they survive these will be with the archive or may be still with the
immigration department. There are quite a few interesting articles and pages on the
internet such as: An essay on how Hinduism developed differently in Guyana and
Suriname at http://www.hinduismtoday.com/archives/2001/1-2/2001-1-08.shtml. It
mentions that the first Hindu cremation in Guyana didn't occur until 1956. and
http://www.caribbeanhindu.com/Arrival.htm - which gives some interesting statistics.
Searching on the authors takes you into further into unexplored territories. Guy <snip>
Jun 11 2003, 2:47 pm

From: g...@gcgrannum.freeserve.co.uk ("Guy Grannum")
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 18:47:38 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Re: East Indian and Chinese Indentured Immigration W.I.
Richard
Thank you very much for your detailed response - and for the wonderful
bibliographies.
In short the answer seems to be that there are no religious records and few
state records unless the authorities needed to intervene. In common with
their labouring predecessors one needs to try plantation records and other
tangential records. This means that researchers won't be able to check the
usual sources.
I had forgotten about the role of the protectors of immigrants/labourers

(previously protectors of slaves) however I'm not sure if all islands had
these officials - some reports of protectors of slaves c1824-1834 can be
found in The National Archives (Public Record Office) but only for Trinidad,
British Guiana and St Lucia; I know that Barbados had stipendiary
magistrates
that had a similar role but I'm not aware of any reports being routinely
forwarded to the Colonial Office.
I assume that if they survive these will be with the archive or may be still
with the immigration department.
There are quite a few interesting articles and pages on the internet such
as:
An essay on how Hinduism developed differently in Guyana and Suriname at
http://www.hinduismtoday.com/archives/2001/1-2/2001-1-08.shtml. It mentions
that the first Hindu cremation in Guyana didn't occur until 1956.
and http://www.caribbeanhindu.com/Arrival.htm - which gives some interesting

statistics.
Searching on the authors takes you into further into unexplored territories.
Guy
"Richard Allicock"
Jun 17 2003, 7:20 pm
From: rich...@idirect.com ("Richard Allicock")
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 23:19:55 +0000 (UTC)
Local: Tues, Jun 17 2003 7:19 pm
Subject: East Indian Indenture Immigration W.I. Names
Some-one pointed out that Indian names could also be formed by adding two names
together, like Bhagat+Singh to get Bhagatsingh. This is quite true. I did not want to deal
with this until we had gotten further into the history of East Indians in the British
Colonies in the West Indies, as we were talking about Anglicisation and Creolisation of
the names. The above example is more appropriate to observe outside of the process or
situation of Anglicisation in which we will find more of the fracture of previously
compounded names.
I am also interested in this process not for academic purposes but also practical ones for
genealogical purposes. In the absence of so much records, and also in some cases the
presence of too many records, as in the case of too many persons with the same names, I
am interested in being aware of the process of Anglicisation/Creolisation for the clues
that names can give on the whereabouts of persons and in a situation where dating them
might be ambiguous..
An indentured immigrant person could arrive with a name spelt one way on the ships
manifest, arrrive on a plantation and imediately or within a few years have their name
spelt slightly differently, depending upon who made the initial record and who kept the
records for the next five and later three years. Some-one might even move to another
plantation after one contract expired and get their name again spelt differently, by
Englishmen, Scotsmen, Irish, and even Welsh and Cornish men, (all with their various
county and regional accents) and not to forget the East Indian "Drivers" "Headmen"
themselves. All of the foregoing would have a different ear, different levels of familiarity
to East Indian names, different levels of education, different ways of spelling even in
English. Then one can have one's children start attending schools and churches and have
the names spelt variously yet again. And the orthographic and phonetic abilities of the
recordists would also change over ti!
me from one generation to another.
Names can give clues in terms of Anglicisation and non-Anglicisation. Anglicised names
tell us that the person in question was in a situation of Anglicisation and in a period of
Anglicisation. The anglicising situations are of course on the plantations and in the
schools and churches. The process of anglicisation would be more relevant to people who
will later move off the plantation and into the towns and villages of the British and
Creoles. On the plantations the sheer force of numbers and community pressure would
serve slow the process of Anglicisation/Creolisation beyond initial name changes. Once
the East Indians on the Plantations started to be able to better "staff" their communities
with arrivals of Pandits/Pundits and Moulvis from India and later Pakistan or other
colonies, the name changes would revert in many instances to what was common "back-
home". But this would mostly affect new births and fore-names rather than surnames.
And we also get more Hindu and Muslim !
names as fore-names for those religious groups, but a mixture or "Indian" and English
and purely English fore-names for the Christian East Indians.
We also have to add the fact that many East Indians did not take opportunity for
educating their children the way that the Creoles and Chinese did. Also, we should take
into account that it was not until close to the turn of the 1900 that the male - female ratio
was equalised and stable families were becoming the norm. This meant increasing
pressure to school one's children and prepare them for on or off plantation jobs. So even
for the on-plantation East Indians, the pressure for Anglicisation was growing, with
ultimately movement to the towns and villages, where they would likely be taught by
anglicised creole teachers. This pressure increased dramatically after the cessation of
Indentureship/Immigration in 1930, and with the prospect of Independence after 1953.
Between these two water-shed years the East Indian Community would produce their
own Anglicised teachers thus furthering the process of Anglicisation, and the promotion
and retention of anglicised names. Later suc!
h teachers and students would even found their own schools.
The legal requirement that birth, marriages and deaths be registered with the Registrar-
General would further serve to fix name changes in whatever form it was registered,
(anglicised and non-anglicised), and that again can give clues to the degree of
anglicisation of the parties concerned.
The need to produce documents for legal and business purposes - land and other property
records, taxes etc., - for schooling one's children, for travel etc. would again fix names.
But then we also have to consider the recording of Censuses, and when the recording of
names would be recorded by some-one else, we are back to phonetics, how the name
appears to sound to some-one's ear. After general schooling people (especially the
younger rather than older) could at least spell their own names, so the recording of names
would get better after the 1960's.
All of these factors can give clues as to who was writing the names and in what period or
even situation.
English itself was not generally standardised until after 1876 with the Education Act that
made education compulsory for school age children. Before that it was the English
Translation of the Latin Bible that did a great deal to standardise written English. Before
that it was London English that was the ideal of English speech, for business purposes,
but the writing could be idiosyncratic until after 1876, and based phonetically on regional
accents and level of education of the writer.
By the time we get to the indenture and immigration of East Indians in the 1840's, the
British had been in India via the British East India Company going on two and half
centuries. From (1600-1773) the BEI Co.; from 1773 UK parliamentary control via a
Governor-General.
By the 1840's the British Army had already standardised the way that Indian names from
all the different languages of the recruits should be spelt or transliterated to be more
precise.
But before that we got:
"A dictionary English and Hindostany : to which is annexed a copious and useful
alphabetical list of proper names of men, women, towns, cities, rivers, provinces,
countries &c. a great majority of which appear to be of Persian, Arabic or Indian origin."
Vol.2
by Henry Harris, Surgeon, Madras Army (1759-1822), Madras : printed for the author,
1790, 345p. appx. of proper names,
Vol. 1 (containing a grammar) never printed, titled: Guide to the Orthography of Indian
Proper Names with a list showing the true spelling of all post towns and villages in India.
Printed by William Wilson Hunter, Calcutta,187,pp.146. Office of the Superintendent of

Govt.
By the 1870's we get:
"The duty of English-speaking Orientalists in regard to united action in adhering

generally to Sir William Jones's Principles of Transliteration, especially in that case of
Indian Languages : with a proposal for promoting a Uniform International Method of
Transliteration so far at least as may be applicable to Proper Names."
By Monier Monier-Williams, 1870, 21p.

I do not know if it was published because there is a note at head of page: "Rough proof,
not yet ready for printing off".
And:
"A Guide to the Orthography of Indian Proper Names with a list showing the true spelling
of all post towns and villages in India."
By William Wilson Hunter, British Academy London.
Calcutta, 1871, 146 p. Office of the Superintendent of Govt. Author.
And:
"Indian Domestic Economy and Receipt Book, with Hindustanee romanized names ...
Eighth edition, revised.
By Robert Flower Riddell
Calcutta : Thacker, Spink & Co. 1877, 596 p.
By 1917 it seems that there was still a need to deal with Arabic and Persian based names,
and hence this is relevant to the way in which Muslim names may have been spelt from c.
1870, or before, allowing for the time-lag between practice and formalisation.
So we get:
"The British academy transliteration of Arabic and Persian; report of the committee
appointed to draw up a practical scheme for the transliteration into English of words
and names belonging to the languages of the Nearer East."
By H. Milford,
Oxford university press 1917? 17 p. Published for the British Academy, London.
Notes: From the Proceedings of the British academy, vol. VIII.
Preface signed, C. J. L. stated that: The system "practically agrees with that adopted more
than fifty years ago by the government of India for place-names in official use and for the
names of soldiers in the Indian army, with such minor modifications as experience from
time to time showed to be desirable."
The above references, I think would be useful for seeing how the names would have been
transliterated before and after the East Indian Indentured Immigrants got to the British
Colonies.
I hope all the above makes a further contribution to the Topic.
Richard
christopher codrington
Jun 18 2003, 10:13 am
From: chris...@comcast.net (christopher codrington)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 14:13:32 +0000 (UTC)
Local: Wed, Jun 18 2003 10:13 am
Subject: RE: East Indian Indenture Immigration W.I. Names
Hi Richard
I have not read your posting in full but you have brought up several
intriguing issues which are very pertinent to carib gen and learning in
general. There is only one which at this time I can respond to and that is
you interest in the variability of language and spelling.
London standard did not exist until 1920 or thereabouts. Spelling was
entirely phonetic and very regional. I have always dreamt of what it might
have sounded like on Antigua in 1741 with Scotsmen and Irishmen and
Englishmen and dutch and Spaniards all occupying the same island trying to
mak a killing at raising sugar or in your case .....nutmeg. My family, who
left Antigua in 1741 to take on free lands in Jamaica, eventually grew
arrowroot and were apparently very successful at it, but by that time there
was already a movement towards uniform spelling. No doubt some of this
evolved from the consistent travel of mail and correspondence although I
have no cogent knowledge of a connection between one evolution and the
other. I regret that I cannot indulge the list and yourself in more of this
stuff but until my hand gets better it is impossible to type at length.
I enjoy your postings and hope you will continue to grace us with your
ponderings
ChrisCod
C.M. Codrington("american version # 1952)

Editor: Carib GenWeb "Historic Antigua and Barbuda" web-site
Co-Administrator: Carribea...@rootsweb.com
Member: Barbados Museum Historical Society,
Museum of Antigua and Barbuda Historical and Archaeological Society.
"James W Cropper"
Jun 9 2003, 9:35 am
From: jameswcrop...@sympatico.ca ("James W Cropper")
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 13:35:38 +0000 (UTC)
Local: Mon, Jun 9 2003 9:35 am
Subject: East Indian Indenture Immigration W.I. /St. Vincent Presbyterian Church.
In a discussion off-line with Richard there are other threads to the topic of the East Indian
immigration which may be of interest. One is the interaction between the immigrants and
the Islanders.
My family on St. Vincent had interesting relationships with the new arrivals. One
member Robert Porter CROPPER (1829- ?) learned to speak their language when the
"coolies" started arriving in SV in 1861 . In the 1850's he was a Graduate of Marischal
College in the University of Aberdeen and in SV "instituted evening classes for the
instruction of young men in history, science, and philosophy". The Presbyterian Church
on St. Vincent appears to have "imploded" in the 1850's perhaps due to the Minister's
involvement in women or money or both ... but I digress. RPC seems to have acquired
the assets and tried to keep the school going by turning it into a Mechanics' Institute.
Some additional info on his son :-
From Page 86 of the book :- "Called to Witness - Profiles of Canadian Presbyterians" -

editor W. Stanford REID.
". The man who offered himself was the Rev. James Cropper, a man whose qualifications
made him a natural for the post. Although not much is known of his early life we do
know that he came from a devout Christian home. He was the son of R.P. Cropper, the
Protector of East Indians of St. Lucia and a lay preacher for the Presbyterian Church.
James Cropper learned to speak Hindu fluently and was able, like his father, to converse
directly with the new arrivals from India. He and his father had begun the Presbyterian
work among the East Indians of St. Lucia; he had trained teachers and catechists there;
and he had served some time as a missionary in Trinidad. Cropper, who was slightly
"coloured", so impressed the Trinidad Mission Council that they sent him to Pine Hill in
Halifax for theological training to prepare him to lead the Indian people of St. Lucia. ."
[Pine Hill is now Dalhousie University in Dartmouth, N.S.]
More on Rev'd James Bassnett CROPPER (1865-1945) [known to Dorothy KEW as "The
Old Goat"] in British Guiana :-
Arthur Charles Dayfoot. "The Shaping of the West Indian Church, 1492-1962."
Gainesville: University Press of Florida, 1999.
Page 197: "The [Presbyterian] mission only became permanently established in 1896,
with the arrival of the Revd James B. Cropper who for forty years became such a
prominent figure that even after his time it was often referred to as 'the Cropper Church.'
About 1880 the government had begun to provide free land and encourage workers who
had completed their indenture to settle in unoccupied areas (notably in those suitable for
rice growing) rather than to return to India. Cropper, who supported this policy, was
appointed as 'Superintendent of East Indian Settlement' by the government, but after
some years went back to full time church work."
JBC had a sister Selina CROPPER (1875 - ?) who also was in British Guiana. Richard
found a reference - "Miscellaneous letters and reports, relating to the Canadian
Presbyterian Mission in British Guiana and the Presbyterian Church of Guyana". The
material is in the Edinburgh University Library, Scotland. One item is a pamphlet or
book by Selina CROPPER - "Practical training for British Guiana Girls".
Sorry for so much CROPPERANA! Perhaps other listers have information on the
interaction between the immigrants and the Islanders.
Jim C.
"Ernest M. Wiltshire"
Jun 9 2003, 12:22 pm
From: mur...@synapse.net ("Ernest M. Wiltshire")
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 16:22:51 +0000 (UTC)
Local: Mon, Jun 9 2003 12:22 pm
Subject: RE: St. Vincent Presbyterian Church.
Jim this is interesting: why did the Presbyterian Church disappear from
St. Vincent? When my father was posted there in 1949 as a Methodist
minister, the Governor (Administrator strictly speaking) was a
Presbyterian, but came to the Methodist Church as there was no
Presbyterian one, and he tended to go to the Anglican Church only for
official occasions. Was there a financial/sexual scandal 100 years
earlier?
Ernest M. Wiltshire
"James W Cropper"
Jun 10 2003, 8:29 am
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 12:12:06 +0000 (UTC)
Local: Tues, Jun 10 2003 8:12 am
Subject: Re: St. Vincent Presbyterian Church.

Ernest wants to start another thread regarding financial/sexual/religion! I
am the last one to discuss the subjects, but I'll try. The Church of
Scotland (Presbyterian) on St. Vincent when through various problems over
the years. By 1949 there was no Church due to a scandal in the 1930's. The
problems in the 1850's were financial and "from the departure of the
Minister to Europe on account of ill health" and the retirement of the
school's Head Master.
A Methodist Minister briefly mentioned the problems in the book "A Voice
from the West Indies" by Rev'd John HORSFORD - 1856 - St. Vincent.
Page 353 - " ... There are here three presses, - each respectable, liberal,
and exhibiting ability; but on reading-rooms, and no libraries, except the
small remnants of the Presbyterian Library, which, from the departure of the
Minister to Europe on account of ill health, and the scattered state of the
church and congregation, has, like the school, fallen into the hands of Mr.
Robert Cropper, a true patriot an a Graduate of Marischal College in the
University of Aberdeen, who has recently instituted evening classes for the
instruction of young men in history, science, and philosophy, and who is
contemplating the establishment of a Mechanics' Institute, respecting which
fuller information will be shortly given by means of a pamphlet now in the
press and soon to be published. ..."
Page 354 - " ... The same may be said of the Presbyterian school. Mr. Hart,
the former master, gave cordial satisfaction to the parents, and won the
affections of the pupils; and, on his retirement to his - native land,
Scotland, in 1853, he was succeeded by Mr. R. Cropper, who is in every way
competent, and whose interest in the rising generation is deep and
disinterested. This school was denominational; and though the Assembly's
Catechism was taught in it, it was liberally conducted. ..."
The best place for information was a website of the Historical Society of
St. Vincent which no longer exists. The former Presbyterian Church is now t
he Seventh Day Adventist Church. The old website had :-
"This place of worship in central Kingstown for the Seventh Day Adventists
was once the Kirk of the Scottish Presbyterians who settled in St. Vincent
after the Monmouth Rebellion in England. The Church of Scotland or as it was
locally called the Scots' Kirk, is a large stone edifice situated at the
corner of Granby and Sharpe Streets. It was first built in 1839 and
reconstructed in 1880 by William Smith, a leading landowner who, besides
owning estates in St. Vincent, possessed a few lots of land on Granby and
Sharpe Streets. The building is historically significant because, unlike
St. George's Cathedral, it was not built with state funds. It was supported
by tithes given by Scottish settlers who wanted to continue the form of
worship practised in the Mother Country. Therefore, Alexander Porter, the
owner of the largest number of estates in St. Vincent at the time, thought
it was his duty - as an elder - to support, financially, the Kirk. In 1902,
the year before he died, he gave the church an endowment of five hundred
pounds sterling, on condition that only a Scotsman be minister."
"The building was enlarged in 1927. It had on its roof a beautiful wooden
ventilator with a weathercock. This ventilator was demolished last year when
repairs were done to the roof. A manse was built east of the church, on The
Greens not too far from the church, on an elevated area which commanded a
good view of Kingstown Harbour. During the 1930's a scandal rocked the Kirk;
it's membership fell and finally the church was closed down. In 1952 it was
sold to the Seventh Day Adventist who use it for regular worship especially
on Saturdays. Because it is the largest the centre of activity and replaces
the first Adventist Chapel at Montrose. This was a wooden building which was
dedicated on 12th July 1903, two years after the first Adventist
missionaries arrived in St. Vincent."
Jim C.
"Richard Allicock"
Jun 15 2003, 11:29 pm
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 03:29:29 +0000 (UTC)
Local: Sun, Jun 15 2003 11:29 pm
Subject: Re: East Indian Indenture Immigration W.I. /St. Vincent Presbyterian
Church.
I found James Cropper's posting, which I have edited below, very interesting
and very re-freshing compared to the British Guiana experience and maybe
that of Trinidad and Jamaica. I will leave others on the list knowledgeable
about the situation in the last two countries to say what the situation was
there. But in British Guiana, where the London Missionary Society had gotten
a foot-hold before slavery was abolished, and since the LMS was the local
arm of the Abolitionists movement, the LMS did not take kindly to the
arrival of the East Indians.
In fact, like the abolitionists, they had opposed the introduction

Indentureship on the grounds of a New Slavery. This was all well and good,
but their sentiments towards the East Indians, was inculcated by the
ex-slaves and their descendants, and I think did a great deal of harm in
regard to the relationships between the two races.
The East Indians were seen as Heathens, and the ex-slaves who were being
Christianised were preached upon against associating with the Heathens and
about their Heathen practices. To be fair, the Missionaries all over the
world did the same, even when the Heathen were the unchristianised fellow
natives of whatever territories the missionaries were in. But in a situation
where the ex-slaves already felt that the East Indians and other Indentured
were taking their jobs and hence the food out of their mouths, the
preachings of the Missionaries did lasting harm. One can only imagine what
may have been said about the Catholic and hence Popish and Idolatrous
Portuguese/Madeirans.
And yet boys will be boys, and it was much to chagrin of the missionaries,
when the young children and young adults started tagging along behid the
Hindus when they celebrated their Festivals. Very soon certain festivals
were banned, for being disruptive to the work schedule on the
Estates/Plantations, but one also suspects also for the exhibition of
Heathenism.
And then there was the matter of dress or undress. It must be remembered
that by the 1840's it was already the Victorian era, with its abhorrence of
public nudity. Whereas before the end of slavery slaves were routinely in
some state of undress, at the end of slavery an Ordinance was passed
specifying the way that males and females should be dressed. Males in shirts
and trousers, females in frocks and petticoats and a head-scarf.
Then along came the East Indians who could be seen in states of undress, the
men clad in only loin-cloths and a "turban" and the females working
bare-breasted in the fields, as the slaves had done before them. More fuel
to the faggots of the Missionaries' anti-Heathen preachings.
It is refreshing to see how early one of the Croppers, a lay precher with
the Presbyterian Church, and Protector of Indians, jumped in to Christianise
the East Indians, even going a far as learning their language.
It is also not surprisising that it was the Canadian Presbyterians that led
the way. It was also this group of Prebyterians that did much to
Christianise and educate a significant number of East Indians to produce an
anglicised East Indian middle class in British Guiana.
One can also remark upon the title "Protector of Indians" mentioned by both
James Cropper and Guy Grannum. In British Guiana, there had long been
Protector of Indians, the Amerindians, a post begun by the Dutch and kept by
the British. These Protectors were backed up by no less than the person of
the Inspector-Geeral of Police.
Maybe there were no Native Amerindians in St. Vincent by the time that the
East Indians started to arrive, but was the title passed on from a time when
there were?
In British Guiana, the protector of the East Indians was the
Immigration-Agent-General. One of them (James Crosby by name) did his job so
well, and was so trusted by the East Indians, that many times in disputes
with the Estates/Plantations, they would walk off and attempt to go and see
"Crosby". Even when he was no longer there his office was known as "Crosby",
and the East Indians would still want to see "Crosby" regardless of the name
of successive Immigration-Agent-General.
A great post James. Thanks.
Richard
"James W Cropper"
Jun 10 2003, 8:29 am
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 12:12:06 +0000 (UTC)

Jim C.
Jun 9 2003, 12:22 pm
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 16:22:51 +0000 (UTC)
earlier?
Ernest M. Wiltshire
"James W Cropper"
Jun 9 2003, 9:35 am
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 13:35:38 +0000 (UTC)
Hi Listers,
the Islanders.

Jim C.
"Richard Allicock"
Jun 14 2003, 7:32 pm
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 23:32:27 +0000 (UTC)
Local: Sat, Jun 14 2003 7:32 pm
Subject: East Indian Indenture Immigration W.I. Names St. Vincent
Elford Cottle wrote 08/06/03:

"There was a mention in a will, for James Cottle, dated 31May, 1920, recorded as
otherwise known as Gobrudhun, a shopkeeper of Layou. He also indicated - that should
his son Adolphus die before coming of age, his whatever remained of his belongings
were to be sent to India to Dealshand Cottle., an Indian connection.
These are all findings that are very puzzling to me, that is why it is so important for me to
identify these people to see where they fit into my genealogical findings."
My Reply:
Hi Elford,
I have not forgotten your query. I have found Cottles in India. There was an Alfred and
Mary Cottle, who Christened a daughter, Alice Maria in Bengal on the 17th of Aug. 1870.
Source: India Office Ecclesiastical Returns-Bengal Presidency, Misc., India.
I found this record on the LDS website "family search.org". So there were Cottles in
India.
Could Dealshand Cottle instead of a person be a company name such as Deals and
Cottle? with Deals being another person's name? I did not find any Deals in India but I
did find some in Barbados for 1848 and 1858, a marriage and a Christening respectively.
You can also search the familysearch.org site for those.
But a more promising line of research might be to reconsider the speling of the name
Dealshand. It could be that the name was Deelchand, pronounced and written as Deal +
Shand. Since we have seen that there were Cottles in Bengal in 1870, it might be worth
your while to follow up on the Cottle family above.
On a related matter, the name Gobrudhun can be Anglicised and Creolised to Goberdan.
Could Gobrudun have also been of the Indian Cottles? If they were Indian quite likely.
If they were missionaries then he might have been giving his estate to charity or to the
family of European Cottles who might be expected to know Gobrudhun's kin. It also
seems that he knew that they were still in India, and might have been in continuous
contact, although the will did not say where exactly.
I hope this helps.
Richard
"Richard Allicock"
Jun 7 2003, 9:02 pm
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 01:02:36 +0000 (UTC)
Local: Sat, Jun 7 2003 9:02 pm
Subject: Re: East Indian and Chinese Indentured Immigration W.I.
Hi Guy,
I am quite sure that Births and deaths would have been recorded, by the
Plantation/Estate Doctors and Drivers to give to the Overseers and by the
latter to the Plantation Managers/Attorneys or Owners where the latter
existed. This material (especially deaths) had to be recorded for the
Colonial and India Office, if not at the beginning of the experiment,
certainly as it progressed. The Plantations/Estates had to keep meticulous
records for personnell replacement reasons, but also to protect/defend
themselves against the charge of the abolitionists, and later the
Missionaries and later the Immigration-Agent-General that they were
introducing and practicing a New Slavery, with as much carelessness and
brutality as the previous slave-owners. In the early years, many
plantations, formerly had slaves, and many of the indentured, East Indians
and Madeiran Portuguese, moved into slave quarters, and not to forget the
200 or so Germans who were first indentured, and all of whom promptly died,
as did many of the early Portuguese/Madeirans. So the abolitionists who
opposed Indentureship and later missionaries were keeping a watchful eye,
and frequently raised a hue and cry. So such records were important as they
would determine how the experiment was to continue and how long it would
last. It was stopped a few times, but lasted close to a hundred years.
I am of course talking about the situation in British Guiana and much of

what comes below comes from there.
Records would be part of the Plantation records, with summaries being sent
or not sent until requested or exposed in the series of subsequent
enquiries, to the colonial authorities locally. The deaths of Hindus would
also be a public health matter as it required cremation. So this may have
been another way in which such deaths would appear in the records. But I
suspect this would appear a little later after the experiment of
indentureship began, and in keeping with Public Health reform in England
itself, and in the Colonies and in the case of Guyana and England, such
reform was spurred by the fear of the same scourge, Cholera. I am sure that
all deaths had to be certified by a Doctor. It was also the case that a
suspicous death would require a police investigation. So such deaths would
probably appear in the local police records. The Muslims and later
Christians would have burial records if only because land had to be set
aside for cemetaries. These would also have to be in the Plantation records
for medical and police reasons.
This brings us to marriages which would also appear in Estate/Plantation
records and also police records. The Plantation had to allocate housing to
the labourers. Where in the records a male and female were placed in the
same lodging, this would indicate some kind of conjugal relationship. It
must be remembered that such marriages would have been apparently informal
affairs, but were very real to those entering into them. Not the gaudy
affairs we are now accustomed to in the West, or what we see portrayed in
most Indian movies.
Informal in India among the poor, and informal in the colonies, not only
because they were poor, but more so because the community and kinship
relations were largely absent in the colonies. Once the community had been
"rebuilt" and I use that word very loosely, marriages did become more as we
know it to-day, a community and a "dress-up" affair. Also, discretionary
income was not likely to go into a marriage ceremony, with or without a
Pandit or a Moulvi. The latter were largely absent for a long time before
the community grew in size, as they were not likely to be knowingly
indentured by the agents in India, and when they did emerge religious
leaders, they were seen and treated as trouble-makers.
But it must be remembered that marriage and divorce among Hindus and Muslims
can be a personal ritual performed by the male. This was likely to be the
case in the absence of a fully "staffed" community. Discretionary income
would go into jewellery, a form of saving and decoration, and an indication
of married status, and also wherever possible into savings that could be
sent back or taken back to India, and not into a marriage ceremony.
But I did mention police records above in relation to marriages. Why would
this have been the case? Precisely because of the disproportionate ratio of
males to females, other males or females themselves were suspect and even
guilty of compromising such marriages. When only suspect, there would be
cases of "wife-beating" and assaults between the males. When guilty, there
would be cases of assault, attempted murder and actual murder of males and
females. So there would be information in the plantation/estate/police
records of assaults, trials, subsequent fines, imprisonments or whipping,
and hangings.
Much the same can be said of the Chinese. But the latter's case was a little
different. Many of these if not married before they left China, could also
be married after they left, in both cases in the hope that their wife could
join them later, as it was important in Chinese ancestor worship that there
would be some-one to tend to the ancestors remains. Many Chinese would
support a wife they had never seen, or not seen, for many years, (or never
see if any of the parties died) for such "religious' reasons. The Chinese
also were not averse to meet their sexual needs from among the Creole women.
Many who apparently were "married" or apparently "married" usually showed
the farce of it when such "wives" especially Chinese "wives" were
subsequently transferred to another as a result of gambling. In the case of
Guyana, the East Indian were stereotyped for wife beating and murder, but
not the Chinese. The latter was more noted for praedial larceny in the early
years, and later for gambling, opium dens and brothels (of mixed and creole
women).
Many Indians on the Plantations, for as long as they remained on the

Plantations did not have the opportunity to mix and mingle with the Creole
women, and there was considerable animosity between the Creoles and the East
Indian groups from the very beginning for religious/cultural and economic
reasons. But then there developed the class of the "time-expired" East
Indians. These were those who had served their contracts, and who did not
return to India. Many could not, as they did not acquire enough money to
take back home to their villages to pay the Pandit for ceremonies to remove
their loss of caste from crossing the Kala Pani or the Black water, that is
the Ocean. Many may have also incurred debts that they did not or could not
repay when they were on contract, or could not repay if they returned. (Many
were too sickly from the ravages of the Plantation or from chronic diseases
of parasites, including malaria. Many were also addicted to Bhang or Ganja.
Among the Chinese many were addicted to Opium, which would also determine
how much they would be able to work and how much money they could earn).
So from the latter groups many did end up in the Creole villages, and towns,
and some did end up cohabiting and having children with Creole women. At a
time when the Creoles were being Christianized, such unions would not
produce records of births in the Church registers. Because they would be
seen as "fornication" and worse yet with the Heathen. The adults of such
unions when they "accepted Christ" would be recorded and so would their
children, who accepted Christ along with their parents and those
subsequently born in the particular denomination of their parents.
Meanwhile the larger Indian Community was being slowly rebuilt, by new
indentures and time-expired Indians, and a better ratio of males to females.
There were also many who also lived outside the Estate/Plantation. By the
time of the end of Indentureship, there was a significant community based on
Rice cultivation, and a Middle Class of Educated mostly Christianised East
Indians. The same can be said of the Chinese and their community. Both
On/Off Estate/Plantation East Indians and Chinese became the beneficiaries
of the General Schemes of Colonial Development beginning after WWII, in
terms of education, and health care. This also means more and better
records. There is likely to be better records for the Christianised East
Indians and Chinese than non-Christian others.
I do not recall when the marriages for Hindus and Muslims were legally
recognised in Guyana. I do not think they ever were before 1970. I know
that their marriages had also to be recorded by the Registrar, decades
before their Pandits and Moulvis ceremonies were recognised as legal. The
latter I think happened soon after Republican status in 1970.
But there were the Censuses that began with the Slave registers and
continued with the Decennial General Population Censuses from the 1831.
Indians and others were included in the subsequent ones. For a number of
years I have been hoping to find the actual Census returns for the personal
information that such would contain, but I have not been yet successful. But
I mention them here in case any-one has seen or know of such. I also fear
that they may have been disposed of because of destruction from age and
heat. Enquiries to the Guyana Archives failed to ascertain what is there,
returns? or summaries? and I know that there was a general house-cleaning of
the Parliament Buldings Rotunda in the '50's and/or '60s, where such records
were likely to be kept as part of Treasury records.
So here I will end this. I hope the above helps. It is sketchy in detail and
largely limited to Guyana, but I am sure relevant to Jamaica and Trinidad.
Let me know if I answered any of your original query. Thanks.
Richard
Tim Anderson
Jun 28 2002, 2:49 pm
From: Tim Anderson <tim...@starpower.net>
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 14:48:27 -0400
Local: Fri, Jun 28 2002 2:48 pm
Subject: Re: Some Individuals in St. Lucia and Grenada circa 1891 -- Thomas Bell
(Indian)
I have been using the microfilms belonging to the LDS of the Public
Records of Grenada. Currently I am scanning through the Wills and
Deeds. I had planned a post with a number of the names found (and
will do that soon). Something that I did notice as soon I started
working with Grenada records of this period is the apparent necessity
of the records office to follow the name of any East Indian with
either "Coolie" or "Indian". Bell is one of the family names that I
have been watching so I made a note of the deed by which Thomas Bell
(Indian) purchased land in St. Patrick's parish. I also noticed on
the land map of the plot that he had purchased that his neighbors were
similarly labeled -- although the neighbors' names were distinctly
East Indian.
Tim
Tim Anderson
Jun 28 2002, 2:49 pm
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 14:48:27 -0400
Local: Fri, Jun 28 2002 2:48 pm
(Indian)
I have been using the microfilms belonging to the LDS of the Public
Records of Grenada. Currently I am scanning through the Wills and
Deeds. I had planned a post with a number of the names found (and
will do that soon). Something that I did notice as soon I started
working with Grenada records of this period is the apparent necessity
of the records office to follow the name of any East Indian with
either "Coolie" or "Indian". Bell is one of the family names that I
have been watching so I made a note of the deed by which Thomas Bell
(Indian) purchased land in St. Patrick's parish. I also noticed on
the land map of the plot that he had purchased that his neighbors were
similarly labeled -- although the neighbors' names were distinctly
East Indian.
Tim
]
Richard B. Cheddie Jun 30 2002, 12:48 am

Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2002 00:47:03 -0400
Local: Sun, Jun 30 2002 12:47 am
(Indian)
I am not so sure how much the religious establishment influenced East

Indians in Grenada to change their names, but it was a big deal in St.
Lucia. I have been researching East Indians in St. Lucia for years and at
every turn I find that the Catholic Church was instrumental in anglocizing
East Indians names there.
Tim, I am looking forward to your list of individuals. Sometimes this may be
the keystone to help others who are researching their history.
I would be particularily interested in the names of ships that transported

East Indian indentured servants to Grenada. I have compiled lists on
Trinidad, Surinam, St. Lucia, St. Vincent, and some to Guayana, St. Kitts,
Martinique, Guadeloupe, Jamaica, and Nevis.
Recommendation to Distribute Coolies from the Ship Maidstone in Grenada
Richard B. Cheddie
Jul 2 2002, 11:13 pm
Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 22:50:57 -0400
Local: Tues, Jul 2 2002 10:50 pm
Subject: Recommendation to Distribute Coolies from the Ship Maidstone in Grenada
The Committee appointed by His Excellency the Lieutenant Governor to

distribute the
coolie Immigrants arrived by the ship "Maidstone" bed to recommend
that the
following should be the distribution.
Plantation Number approved for Males Females Total Pudars
1 Grand Bacolet 15 9 2 11
2 Hope 15 9 2 11
3 Thuilliries 10 7 1 8 1 for all 3
4 Upper Latante 10 7 1 8
5 Crochee 20 11 2 13 1 for both
6 Carriere 20 11 2 13
7 Conference 15 9 2 11 1 for both
8 Belmont 15 10 2 12 1
9 Mount Rose 30 17 3 20 1
10 Mount Reuil 20 11 3 14
11 Chambord 20 10 3 13
12 Plain 20 10 3 13 1 for all 3
13 Morne Fendue 20 10 3 13
14 Lafortune 20 10 3 13
15 Snell Hall 20 10 3 13 1 for all 3
16 Rivier Sallee 20 10 3 13 1
17 Marli 20 10 3 13 1
18 Mount William 20 10 3 13
19 Duguesne 20 10 3 13
20 Samaritan 20 10 3 13 1 for all 3
370 201 50 251 10
Note: The Maidstone was the first ship to transport indentured East
Indian laborers to Grenada. The ship left India with 375 Indians, but arrived in Grenada
on May 1, 1857 with only 289. Eighty-Six died during the voyage.
Richard B. Cheddie
Just to give you some additional mortality of some of the other ships that transported East
Indians to the Caribbean Basin: 1. Merchant to British Guiana in 1857 lost 120 of its 385
immigrants 2. Dilharrie to Trinidad in 1872 lost 44 of its 478 immigrants 3. Bann to
Trinidad in 1887 lost 53 of its 582 immigrants 4. Eveline to Trinidad in 1857 lost 61 of its
302 immigrants 5. Scindian to Trinidad in 1857 lost 49 of its 223 immigrants 6.
***Salsette to Trinidad in 1858 lost 106 of its 197 immigrants *** 7. Koomar to Trinidad
in 1865 lost 85 of its 407 immigrants 8. Rhone to Trinidad in 1895 lost 109 of its 690
immigrants I have to confirm that the Souvenance lost all 376 immigrants when it sank
after leaving Pondicherry to Martinique. "Richard Bond" <RichardB...@webtv.net>
wrote in message news:738-3D22AF81-6@storefull-2118.public.lawson.webtv.net... -
Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -> This mortality is about par with the earlier West
African slave trade.
Jul 3 2002, 12:29 pm
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 12:29:10 -0400
Local: Wed, Jul 3 2002 12:29 pm
Subject: Some other mortality on East Indian Immigrants Indentured in the West
Indies
Just to give you some additional mortality of some of the other ships that
transported East Indians to the Caribbean Basin:
1. Merchant to British Guiana in 1857 lost 120 of its 385 immigrants

2. Dilharrie to Trinidad in 1872 lost 44 of its 478 immigrants
3. Bann to Trinidad in 1887 lost 53 of its 582 immigrants
4. Eveline to Trinidad in 1857 lost 61 of its 302 immigrants
5. Scindian to Trinidad in 1857 lost 49 of its 223 immigrants
6. ***Salsette to Trinidad in 1858 lost 106 of its 197 immigrants ***
7. Koomar to Trinidad in 1865 lost 85 of its 407 immigrants
8. Rhone to Trinidad in 1895 lost 109 of its 690 immigrants
I have to confirm that the Souvenance lost all 376 immigrants when it sank
after leaving Pondicherry to Martinique.
Richard B. Cheddie
Jul 19 2002, 4:58 am
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 04:58:13 -0400
Local: Fri, Jul 19 2002 4:58 am
Subject: A Couple of 1878 posts concerning the initial importation of indentured

Indians to St. Lucia.
Here are a couple of 1878 posts concerning the initial importation of

indentured Indians to St. Lucia. Taken from a bad copy hence the ? marks.
====================
Sir Michael Hicks Brach 9th March 1878
Sir,
I have the honor to transmit a dispatch from Mr. Du Vieux

administrator of the Government of St. Lucia, reporting with references to
the previous correspondence noted in the margins upon the manner in which he
proposes that funds should be raised to meet the expenses of Coolie
Immigration in that Island. (Information in margin hard to read: February
1878, Sep 1877)
2. I also transmit copies of Memoranda drawn up by Mr. Du Vieux,

for my information before his departure upon certain points of details with
regard to the reception, allotment and supervision of the Immigrants; as
well as with regards to the necessity for the suppression of squatting in
St. Lucia.
3. Mr. Du Vieux in his Dispatch, Aug (?) 6 recommends the

establishment of a regular dist (?) continuous system of Immigration fro the
future to the extent of 200 Coolies per annum (paragraph 8 & 19) (Margin:
St. Lucia)
4. To make the necessary financial provision for this purpose he

proposes to take power to raise a loan of £15,000 and to impose taxation
(paragraph 24, 25, 26, 27) calculated to produce annual Revenue of £5,000
which together with the sum of £1,200 (at percent devoted to paying off the
existing Immigration loan of the Colony but available in 1880) would amount
to £6,750, an amount efficient after deducting 7 percent or £1,050 for
interest and sinking Fund in the loan of £15,000, to provide the sum of
£28.10.0 per head upon a yearly importation of 200 Coolies.
5. The forgoing propositions are based on the assumption that

St. Luca will have it in her power to become a regular Coolie importing
Colony, but having received a telegram yesterday (margin: 8th March 1878)
from the Office now administering the Government of St. Lucia, announcing
that 579 Coolies left Calcutta for the Island on the 28th January, I have
been called upon to decide what course is to be taken to raise funds for the
present importation and have addressed Mr. Dix in a Dispatch of which I
enclose a copy approving of the introduction of an Ordinance for effecting a
loan not exceeding £15,000 and instructing him to take the other measure
immediately necessary for the reception of these Immigrants. (margin: para
23, 9th Mar 1878)
6. I am not in a position to report now more fully my own views

with regard to the various matters submitted to me in Mr. Du Vieux's
Dispatch but I hope to do so by the mail of the 30th Instant as I shall have
had an opportunity before then of visiting St. Lucia and conferring
personally with Mr. Dix and the leading members of the community.
==========================
The ?
Sir M.E. Hicks Brach
Sir,
I have the honor to transmit the enclosed dispatch from the

Officer Administering the Government of St. Lucia containing the Report of
the Protector of Immigrants in that Colony for the year 1878 together with
the usual statistical statements appended thereto.
2. It would appear from the report that the number of deaths

during the last eight months of 1878 among the 580 newly imported Immigrants
at St. Lucia was 26 giving and annual death rate of 67.23 per thousand while
at Grenada in 9 months it was 19 our of 458, giving an annual death rate of
55.30. In St. Vincent on the other hand the death rate among the
acclimatized coolies for the year was under 10 per thousand. (margin: vide
dispatch Grenada 2:26. 11 Feb 1879. vide dispatch St. Vincent 2:39 3Apr
1879)
"Richard Allicock"
Jun 5 2003, 12:03 am
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 04:02:54 +0000 (UTC)
Local: Thurs, Jun 5 2003 12:02 am
Subject: East Indian Indenture Immigration W.I. St. Vincent
Remnants of the great coolie scramble : East Indian immigration to the Windward
Islands, with special reference to St. Vincent, 1860-1880
By Arnold Thomas
Postgraduate seminar papers / CS/92/2; 1992 [7p]

Tables presented to a seminar on 24 November 1992
University of London Institute of Commonwealth Studies; University of London Institute

of Latin American Studies
Richard B. Cheddie
Jul 3 2002, 5:08 pm
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 17:07:15 -0400
Subject: Some Names from the Futtle Rozak 30th May 1845
Ship: Futtle Rozak 30th May 1845

Name Father's Name Sex Age
1 Pohuruth Suroop Male 20

2 Sookra Khadoo Male 15
3 Kuto Sooful Male 30
4 Dookhee Darhoo Male 22
5 Hullodhur Gobardhun Male 18
6 Anhateh Darhoo Male 24
7 Chowdory Aukalee Male 18
8 Bundhoo Darhoo Male 19
9 Bauchoo Darhoo Male 16
10 Bolem (Cannot read properly) Mohes Male 23
11 Gopaul Sawah Male 30
12 Curmun Darhoo Male 27
13 Sunkur Jaloo Male 25
14 Munee Bohore Male 27
15 Mohun Jakoo Roy Male 18
16 Buznauth Dhunray (cannot read ending) Male 27
17 Auhach Maighoo Male 20
18 Sownah Madhow Male 25
19 Bhaden Puteram Male 27
20 Minia Huriram & Mungul Male
21 Munsaram Bheka Male 30
22 Burmessur Sumrow Male 28
23 Gungaram Chamoo Male 24
24 Subram (Cannot read properly) Khoodea Male 22
25 Bithoe Khoodea Male 18
26 Cannot read. Properly ? Roy Mohun Roy Male 23
27 Cannot read. Properly ? Sing Persad Sing Male 27
28 Dahee Sing Sobrun Sing Male 16
29 Sukroo Jugernauth Male 28
30 Roopchand Jugroop Male 53
31 Dhunaram Sam Male 30
32 Cannot read properly Jeebun? Sawah Male 25
33 Cannot read properly ? *hee Aukale Male ?
34 Cannot read below this line
Note: This is the first ship that brought indentured East Indians to
Trinidad. It was very difficult trying
to read some letters: ee, I, u, w, n, m, J, T, P
This file is also located at the East Indian Genealogical Group at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bhatchaman/
Richard B. Cheddie
Jul 3 2002, 8:05 pm
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 20:04:45 -0400
Subject: Compilng Data on East Indian Laborers on the Caribbean
I have spent the past week doing intensive and extensive on-line research on
the Internet searching for data on East Indian (Hindu and Muslim) indentured
laborers transported to the Caribbean Basin/ West Indies. What I have found
is that in the past two years the interest of fourth to sixth generation
transported Indians is at an all time high, higher than one might expect
after 150 years of our people's trek across West Indian countries, building
as we went. Unfortunately, the data available to these aroused researchers
is next to nil. In the past two years I have not seen anything new to what
I have discovered elsewhere posted on the net to help these new researchers.
East Indians laborers were taken to Jamaica, St. Croix (Danish West Indies),
St. Kitts (St. Christopher), Nevis, Guadeloupe, Martinique, St. Lucia, St.
Vincent, Grenada, Trinidad, Guyana (British Guiana/ Demerara),
Suriname(Danish Guiana), French Guiana, and Belize. Most researchers,
professional or otherwise, have posted tidbits on Suriname, Trinidad,
Guyana, and St. Lucia, but for the other coutries hardly anything has been
posted to aid the lay genealogist.
The government of Suriname has done the best to provide data on individual
Indians transported there during the indenturship period. Take a look at
this massive undertaking at: http://www.archief.nl/suriname/index.html .
Some new scholars from Guyana is currently in the process of convincing
their government to mirror this endeavor, but until then the data available
on the net on individual East Indians and their voyage are only those posted
as a by product of my personal research into my and my wife's past.
There are several reseachers out there that have a wealth of valuable info
for which most of us would give a right arm or left kidney. The foremost
researcher in Trinidad is Shamshu Deen sham...@tstt.net.tt . He has access
to individual records on laborers there. Currently there is none for Guyana.
I guess by default, I am the one for St. Lucia. Beyond this I am not aware
of anyone for the other islands.
There is a lot of data that are being held by the individual East |Indian
researcher or one of their relatives. What I propose is that these
individuals post as much detail as they have on this newsgroup or elsewhere.
The emigre pass, ship list/ ship number, register number, data from birth
certificate, data listed in current books, documents, pamphlets,
certificaes, etc. should all be posted on this site. From this we could
compile a database that could give us a better understanding of the Indian
Diaspora in the West Indies.
If you got it or access to it - get it and post it. Let us help us to help
ourselves.
Richard B. Cheddie
Sep 2 2002, 12:37 pm
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 12:33:32 -0400
Local: Mon, Sep 2 2002 12:33 pm
Subject: East Indians in French Guiana?
I have been searching for any information on East Indian indenture laborers
that were transported to French Guiana (Cayenne) and as a whole I have not
found much info on that country.
Richard Bond
Sep 2 2002, 1:45 pm
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 13:18:36 -0400 (EDT)
Local: Mon, Sep 2 2002 1:18 pm
Subject: Re: East Indians in French Guiana?
In contrast with Guyana and Suriname there were not many East Indians.
The demographic profile is similar to the French islands with the

exception of a group of Hmong Laotians and Aboriginal Indians.
One thing that is intersting is the number of black St. Lucian

descendants who for many years had dominated the water taxi business.

Jun 5 2003, 12:47 am
From: "Richard B. Shiva-Ram Cheddie" <Yud...@hotmail.com>
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 00:47:29 -0400
Local: Thurs, Jun 5 2003 12:47 am
Subject: More Ships Transporting East Indians to British Guiana
IAC INDO GUYANESE HISTORY LESSON 5
COOLIE SHIPS: TYPE AND SIZE

APPROXIMATELY 239,000 emigrants from Bharat (India) including a small
number of paid passengers or casuals crossed by Kaalaa Paanii in 244 ships
which made a total of 534 voyages from India to British Guiana between 1838
and 1917. The Kaalaa Paanii was crossed by 234 sailing ships which made 493
trips, and by 10 steamships which made 41 voyages.
In the early years, the ships employed were wooden sailing vessels commonly
built of teak. In 1861, however, when James Nourse entered this
transportation field, his company began building iron sailing ships.
Sandbach Tinne and Company, a rival shipping company, soon followed suit.
By the 1880s, wooden sailing ships had been replaced almost entirely by
iron sailing ships.
Simultaneous with the gradual passing of the wooden sailing ships, the
world was turning from sail to steam, and the employment of steamships
naturally came up for consideration. Although it was suggested in the 1860s
that the use of the steamships to transport emigrants would be cheaper,
that mortality rates would be significantly lower and that the duration of
voyages would be significantly shorter than if sailing ships were used,
only five steamships crossed the Kaalaa Paanii to British Guiana before the
1908-09 shipping season, making a total of seven trips.
The size of the ships employed increased as the years passed, since ship
owners found the building of larger ships generally more economical. In the
mid-19th century, sailing ships generally carried between 300 to 400
emigrants. For example, during the 1858-59 shipping season, the following
eight vessels delivered 2720 emigrants: (1) Latona, 693 tons, 317; (2)
Marchioness of Londonderry, 766 tons, 372; (3) York, 940 tons, 386; (4)
Victor Emanuel, 955 tons, 358, (5) Plantagenet, 806 tons, 334; (6) Aurora,
536 tons, 234; (7) Ellenborough, 1031 tons, 352; and (8) Simla, 1444 tons,
367. By the early 1870s, however, vessels of over 1000 tons and transporting
between 400 and 500 were the norm, and this was illustrated by the fact
that in the 1872-1873 shipping season, only two ships of 13 that sailed
from India were below 1000 tons. These ships, the James Nourse-owned Ganges
of 843 tons and the Gainsborough of 973 tons delivered 396 and 373 persons,
respectively. The other ships landed between 403 (Trevelyan) and 561
persons (S.S.Enmore).
By the mid-1880s, heavier ships were transporting between 500 and 600
Indian emigrants. For example, during the 1883-84 shipping season the
following five ships delivered 2731 emigrants: Bann, 1667 tons, 591: Foyle,
1598 tons, 564; British Peer, 1428 tons, 559; Ganges, 1443 tons, 490; and
The Bruce, 1145 tons, 527.
By the early 1900s, ships were generally between 1400 and 1750 tons and
routinely transported between 550 and 650 persons. With the increasing use
of steamships after 1908, numbers transported per ship rose significantly
to between 750 and 900 persons. For example, during the 1909-1910 shipping
season the following three ships delivered 2508 emigrants: SS Sutlej; 2153
tons, 844; SS Ganges, 2151 tons, 847; and SS Indus, 2110 tons, 817.
As the years passed, therefore, fewer but larger ships were used to
transport similar amounts of emigrants.
"Richard Allicock"
Jun 7 2003, 2:11 am
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 06:11:11 +0000 (UTC)
Local: Sat, Jun 7 2003 2:11 am
Subject: Chinese & East Indian Indenture Immigration W.I. contiinued
British Guiana East Indian and Chinese Missions: Report of committee from July, 1890 -
June, 1891.
Published by British Guiana Coolie Missions. Georgetown. 1891. 21p. Microform.

Original held by: Bodleian Library, Oxford University
Report of the Commissioners appointed to enquire into the treatment of immigrants in

British Guiana
[re: Chinese and East Indians]
Published by Great Britain Colonial Office. (Great Britain. Parliament); 393. HMSO.
1871. 203 p.Contents: Appendices, pt. 1. (C.393-1) HMSO, 1871.--pt. 2. (C.393-11)
HMSO, 1871
Further correspondence on the recommendations of the report of the Commissioners

appointed to enquire into the treatment of immigrants in British Guiana.
[re: Chinese and East Indians}
Published by Great Britain Colonial Office. SE- C (Great Britain. Parliament) ; 641.
HMSO. 1872. 118 p
The New Slavery: an account of the Indian and Chinese immigrants in British Guiana,
etc.
By Joseph Beaumont
London: W. Ridgway. 1871. 112 p.
Report to the West India Committee [on British Guiana Commission of inquiry into the
treatment of immigrants]
(re: Chinese and East Indians)

by T.H. Cowie
Published by The West India Committee. British Guiana Commission of inquiry into the
treatment of immigrants. 1870. 28 p.; 3rd item in volume.
Digest of the report of the Commissioners appointed to enquire into the treatment of
immigrants in British Guiana
[re:Chinese and East Indians]
by Charles Skipper
Published by Great Britain Colonial Office. 80 p. 13th item in bound volume of

pamphlets
Caribbean Asians : Chinese, Indian, and Japanese experiences in Trinidad and the
Dominican Republic
by Roger Sanjek
Published by Asian/American Center working papers. New York : CUNY, Queens

College. 1990
Indentured labour in the British Empire, 1834-1920
by Kay Saunders
London: Croom Helm. 1984. 327p : ill : maps, Bibliography included.
[The above work contains Inter alia: The West Indies and indentured labour migration /
William A. Green -- The impact of indentured immigration on the political economy of
British Guiana/ Alan H. Adamson - - Indentured labour in Trinidad, 1880-1917 /
Marianne D. Ramesar -- From slavery to indenture / M.D. North-Coombes -- Labouring
men and nothing more / Brij V. Lal.]
"James W Cropper"
Hi Listers, In a discussion off-line with Richard there are other threads to the topic of the
East Indian immigration which may be of interest. One is the interaction between the
immigrants and the Islanders. My family on St. Vincent had interesting relationships with
the new arrivals. One member Robert Porter CROPPER (1829- ?) learned to speak their
language when the "coolies" started arriving in SV in 1861 . In the 1850's he was a
Graduate of Marischal College in the University of Aberdeen and in SV "instituted
evening classes for the instruction of young men in history, science, and philosophy".
The Presbyterian Church on St. Vincent appears to have "imploded" in the 1850's perhaps
due to the Minister's involvement in women or money or both ... but I digress. RPC
seems to have acquired the assets and tried to keep the school going by turning it into a
Mechanics' Institute. Some additional info on his son :- From Page 86 of the book :-
"Called to Witness - Profiles of Canadian Presbyterians" - editor W. Stanford REID. ".
The man who offered himself was the Rev. James Cropper, a man whose qualifications
[Pine Hill is now Dalhousie University in Dartmouth, N.S.] More on Rev'd James
Bassnett CROPPER (1865-1945) [known to Dorothy KEW as "The Old Goat"] in British
Guiana :- Arthur Charles Dayfoot. "The Shaping of the West Indian Church, 1492-1962."
Gainesville: University Press of Florida, 1999. Page 197: "The [Presbyterian] mission
only became permanently established in 1896, with the arrival of the Revd James B.
Cropper who for forty years became such a prominent figure that even after his time it
was often referred to as 'the Cropper Church.' About 1880 the government had begun to
provide free land and encourage workers who had completed their indenture to settle in
unoccupied areas (notably in those suitable for rice growing) rather than to return to
India. Cropper, who supported this policy, was appointed as 'Superintendent of East
Indian Settlement' by the government, but after some years went back to full time church
work." JBC had a sister Selina CROPPER (1875 - ?) who also was in British Guiana.
Richard found a reference - "Miscellaneous letters and reports, relating to the Canadian
book by Selina CROPPER - "Practical training for British Guiana Girls". Sorry for so
much CROPPERANA! Perhaps other listers have information on the interaction between
the immigrants and the Islanders. Jim C.
Yuddh1
Mar 13 2003, 5:42 am
From: "Yuddh1" <yud...@hotmial.com>
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 04:42:42 -0500
Local: Thurs, Mar 13 2003 5:42 am
Subject: Over 575 voyages of East Indian Indenture Laborers
I have a listing of over 500 voyages of ships that transported East Indians
from India to the Caribbean Basin:
Guyana, Surinam, Jamaica, Trinidad, St. Kitts, Nevis, St. Croix, Grenada,
Belize, Martique, Guadeloupe, French Guiana, St. Lucia, and St. Vincent
www.geocities.com/yuddh1
www.groups.yahoo.com/group/bhatchaman/
"Rory McGregor"
Apr 5 2003, 6:01 pm
From: mcgre...@usa.net ("Rory McGregor")
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 22:00:54 +0000 (UTC)
Local: Sat, Apr 5 2003 6:00 pm
Subject: RE: Hindu and Muslim records
I know my Hindu Indian friends tell me there is a place on the Ganges where
family histories are recorded and when there is a death of a father, the son
is supposed to go there to make a pilgrimage and update the record.
Many of my friends were shocked as to how detailed and how far back these
went (to the 1500's).
This may be helpful for Caribbean people who can trace the family back to a
particular locality in India.
Rory

May 1 2003, 6:01 pm
Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 18:01:04 -0400
Local: Thurs, May 1 2003 6:01 pm
Subject: The following is part of an e-mail reply from the PRO on the East Indians to
the West Indies
The following is part of a reply from the PRO on the East Indians to the
West Indies
The biographical information relating to indenture labourers can be found in

the Colonial Office: West Indies original correspondence in record series
reference of the National Archives (TNA) PRO CO 318. It contains specific
sections devoted to Indian labour and migration to the West Indies for the
period 1843 to 1873; these are continued in (TNA): PRO CO 323 and later in
the Immigration Department records (TNA): PRO CO 571 for the period
1913-1920.
From the 1870's the records of the Land Board and Emigration Department
(TNA): PRO CO 384-CO 386 with registers in (TNA): PRO CO 428) are concerned
with emigration to the West Indies and include information on Indian migrant
labour. The (TNA): PRO CO 384 and (TNA): PRO CO 385 includes surgeon's
reports sometimes give details of the births and deaths of Indians on the
ships. Only first names of the Indian labourers have been noted in these
records. These are not complete. There is no name index to these
records, therefore searching for information on individuals are extremely

difficult.
Emigration agents were appointed in India to recruit labourers. The

indenture labourers had to fill the contract of service forms. It is
possible that the records created by these agents if they had survived may
be found in the State Archives of India. In India, the ports of Calcutta,
Bombay, and Madras were the main platforms used to transport the labourers
to colonies. Please contact the appropriate State Archives in India if you
know, the origin of their place from which they left to St Lusia. The State
archives addresses are as follows.
Government of West Bengal State Archives
6, Bhowani Dutta Lane
Kolkatta (Calcutta)- 700 007
India
Tamil Nadu State Archives
28/29, Gandhi-Irwin Road
Egmore
Chennai - 600 008
Tamil Nadu
India
Telephone +91 (0)44 825 43 38
Fax +91 (0)44 825 60 47
http://www.tanap.net/archives/archives/tamil.htm
Mumbai Archives,
Department of Archives,
Government of Maharashtra,
156,Elphinstone College Building,
M.G. Road, Fort
Mumbai - 400032. India.
Phone No: 0091-22-2843971, 0091-22-2844268
Fax no: 0091-22-2844268
Because of our very limited resources of staff and time, and the nature of
the material in question, we are unable to undertake research for you. If
you are able to visit the office in person, we are happy to advise you
further on this subject
There is much information about the records and the services we provide
available on our web site at
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
If you are unable visit the office, you may care to hire an Independent
Researcher to do the work on your behalf. A list of researchers who
undertake family history research can be printed from our website. To do
this, please follow the link to
http://www.pro.gov.uk/research/irlist/default.htm
I trust this information will be of assistance to you
Yours sincerely
Abi Husainy (Ms)
Research and Editorial Services Department

May 26 2003, 2:39 am
Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 23:44:47 -0400
Local: Sun, May 25 2003 11:44 pm
Subject: Ship Transporting East Indians to St. Croix
Finally, after much searching (and headaches) I was saved by a fellow

researcher who was able to tell me the name of the only ship to have
transported East Indian indentured laborers to St. Croix, Danish West
Indies.
On June 15, 1863, the steamship Mars (not a sail ship) arrived at Croix from
Calcutta, after being on the high seas for about 3 months, with 318
indentured servants.
(Another source said the total was 326).
I was very excited to have received this information. For a listing of other
ships that transported East Indians to the Caribbean Basin, visit my site at
May 29 2003, 11:33 am
Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 15:33:47 +0000 (UTC)
Local: Thurs, May 29 2003 11:33 am
Subject: East Indian Immigration to Jamaica
"Richard Allicock"
Jun 4 2003, 11:35 pm
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 03:35:19 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: East Indian Indenture Immigration W.I. Jamaica

History of East Indian Immigration to Jamaica
by Arthur Harvey Alexander.
(details not available)
Home away from home : 150 years of Indian presence in Jamaica, 1845-1995
by Laxmi & Ajai Mansingh
Kingston, Jamaica : I. Randle Publishers 1999,180 p : ill. (some col.)
The geographic and social origins of Indian indentured labourers in

Mauritius, Natal, Fiji, Guyana and Jamaica
Working papers in Economic History

no.67
by Lance Brennan; John McDonald; Ralph Schlomowitz
Flinders University of South Australia, Adelaide,1995 38p
Transients to settlers : the experience of Indians in Jamaica, 1845-1950
by Verene Shepherd
University of Warwick Centre for Research in Asian Migration

Leeds, Peepal Tree Press,1994
281 p. : ill., maps.
The East Indian indentureship system in Jamaica 1845-1917.
by Sohal Harinder Singh
Waterloo, Ontario, Canada: University of Waterloo 1979
Note on emigration from the East Indies to Jamaica

by D.W Comins, Calcutta: G.P.
1893, 48 p
Jun 9 2003, 9:35 am

Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 13:35:38 +0000 (UTC)
Hi Listers,
the Islanders.

Jim C.
Jim this is interesting: why did the Presbyterian Church disappear from St. Vincent?
When my father was posted there in 1949 as a Methodist minister, the Governor
(Administrator strictly speaking) was a Presbyterian, but came to the Methodist Church
as there was no Presbyterian one, and he tended to go to the Anglican Church only for
official occasions. Was there a financial/sexual scandal 100 years earlier? Ernest M.
Wiltshire - Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text ------Original Message----- From: James
W Cropper [mailto:jameswcrop...@sympatico.ca] Subject: East Indian Indenture
Immigration W.I. /St. Vincent Presbyterian Church. ". The Presbyterian Church on St.
Vincent appears to have "imploded" in the 1850's perhaps due to the Minister's
involvement in women or money or both ... but I digress.
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 16:22:51 +0000 (UTC)

earlier?
Ernest M. Wiltshire
"James W Cropper"
Ernest wants to start another thread regarding financial/sexual/religion! I am the last one
to discuss the subjects, but I'll try. The Church of Scotland (Presbyterian) on St. Vincent
when through various problems over the years. By 1949 there was no Church due to a
scandal in the 1930's. The problems in the 1850's were financial and "from the departure
of the Minister to Europe on account of ill health" and the retirement of the school's Head
Master. A Methodist Minister briefly mentioned the problems in the book "A Voice from
the West Indies" by Rev'd John HORSFORD - 1856 - St. Vincent. Page 353 - " ... There
are here three presses, - each respectable, liberal, and exhibiting ability; but on reading-
rooms, and no libraries, except the small remnants of the Presbyterian Library, which,
from the departure of the Minister to Europe on account of ill health, and the scattered
state of the church and congregation, has, like the school, fallen into the hands of Mr.
Robert Cropper, a true patriot an a Graduate of Marischal College in the University of
Aberdeen, who has recently instituted evening classes for the instruction of young men in
history, science, and philosophy, and who is contemplating the establishment of a
Mechanics' Institute, respecting which fuller information will be shortly given by means
of a pamphlet now in the press and soon to be published. ..." Page 354 - " ... The same
may be said of the Presbyterian school. Mr. Hart, the former master, gave cordial
satisfaction to the parents, and won the affections of the pupils; and, on his retirement to
his - native land, Scotland, in 1853, he was succeeded by Mr. R. Cropper, who is in every
way competent, and whose interest in the rising generation is deep and disinterested.
This school was denominational; and though the Assembly's Catechism was taught in it,
it was liberally conducted. ..." The best place for information was a website of the
Historical Society of St. Vincent which no longer exists. The former Presbyterian Church
is now t he Seventh Day Adventist Church. The old website had :- "This place of
worship in central Kingstown for the Seventh Day Adventists was once the Kirk of the
Scottish Presbyterians who settled in St. Vincent after the Monmouth Rebellion in
England. The Church of Scotland or as it was locally called the Scots' Kirk, is a large
stone edifice situated at the corner of Granby and Sharpe Streets. It was first built in 1839
and reconstructed in 1880 by William Smith, a leading landowner who, besides owning
estates in St. Vincent, possessed a few lots of land on Granby and Sharpe Streets. The
building is historically significant because, unlike St. George's Cathedral, it was not built
with state funds. It was supported by tithes given by Scottish settlers who wanted to
continue the form of worship practised in the Mother Country. Therefore, Alexander
Porter, the owner of the largest number of estates in St. Vincent at the time, thought it was
his duty - as an elder - to support, financially, the Kirk. In 1902, the year before he died,
he gave the church an endowment of five hundred pounds sterling, on condition that only
a Scotsman be minister." "The building was enlarged in 1927. It had on its roof a
beautiful wooden ventilator with a weathercock. This ventilator was demolished last year
when repairs were done to the roof. A manse was built east of the church, on The Greens
not too far from the church, on an elevated area which commanded a good view of
Kingstown Harbour. During the 1930's a scandal rocked the Kirk; it's membership fell
and finally the church was closed down. In 1952 it was sold to the Seventh Day
Adventist who use it for regular worship especially on Saturdays. Because it is the largest
the centre of activity and replaces the first Adventist Chapel at Montrose. This was a
wooden building which was dedicated on 12th July 1903, two years after the first
Adventist missionaries arrived in St. Vincent." Jim C. - Hide quoted text -- Show quoted
text ------ Original Message ----- From: "Ernest M. Wiltshire" <mur...@synapse.net> To:
<CARIBBEA...@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, June 09, 2003 12:22 PM Subject: RE:
St. Vincent Presbyterian Church. > Jim this is interesting: why did the Presbyterian
Church disappear from > St. Vincent? When my father was posted there in 1949 as a
Methodist > minister, the Governor (Administrator strictly speaking) was a >
Presbyterian, but came to the Methodist Church as there was no > Presbyterian one, and
he tended to go to the Anglican Church only for > official occasions. Was there a
financial/sexual scandal 100 years > earlier? > Ernest M. Wiltshire
Jun 10 2003, 8:29 am

Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 12:12:06 +0000 (UTC)

Jim C.
"Richard Allicock"
I found James Cropper's posting, which I have edited below, very interesting and very re-
freshing compared to the British Guiana experience and maybe that of Trinidad and
Jamaica. I will leave others on the list knowledgeable about the situation in the last two
countries to say what the situation was there. But in British Guiana, where the London
Missionary Society had gotten a foot-hold before slavery was abolished, and since the
LMS was the local arm of the Abolitionists movement, the LMS did not take kindly to
the arrival of the East Indians. In fact, like the abolitionists, they had opposed the
introduction Indentureship on the grounds of a New Slavery. This was all well and good,
but their sentiments towards the East Indians, was inculcated by the ex-slaves and their
descendants, and I think did a great deal of harm in regard to the relationships between
the two races. The East Indians were seen as Heathens, and the ex-slaves who were being
Christianised were preached upon against associating with the Heathens and about their
Heathen practices. To be fair, the Missionaries all over the world did the same, even when
the Heathen were the unchristianised fellow natives of whatever territories the
missionaries were in. But in a situation where the ex-slaves already felt that the East
Indians and other Indentured were taking their jobs and hence the food out of their
mouths, the preachings of the Missionaries did lasting harm. One can only imagine what
Portuguese/Madeirans. And yet boys will be boys, and it was much to chagrin of the
missionaries, when the young children and young adults started tagging along behid the
Hindus when they celebrated their Festivals. Very soon certain festivals were banned, for
being disruptive to the work schedule on the Estates/Plantations, but one also suspects
also for the exhibition of Heathenism. And then there was the matter of dress or undress.
It must be remembered that by the 1840's it was already the Victorian era, with its
abhorrence of public nudity. Whereas before the end of slavery slaves were routinely in
some state of undress, at the end of slavery an Ordinance was passed specifying the way
that males and females should be dressed. Males in shirts and trousers, females in frocks
and petticoats and a head-scarf. Then along came the East Indians who could be seen in
states of undress, the men clad in only loin-cloths and a "turban" and the females working
bare-breasted in the fields, as the slaves had done before them. More fuel to the faggots
of the Missionaries' anti-Heathen preachings. It is refreshing to see how early one of the
Croppers, a lay precher with the Presbyterian Church, and Protector of Indians, jumped in
to Christianise the East Indians, even going a far as learning their language. It is also not
surprisising that it was the Canadian Presbyterians that led the way. It was also this group
of Prebyterians that did much to Christianise and educate a significant number of East
Indians to produce an anglicised East Indian middle class in British Guiana. One can also
remark upon the title "Protector of Indians" mentioned by both James Cropper and Guy
Grannum. In British Guiana, there had long been Protector of Indians, the Amerindians, a
post begun by the Dutch and kept by the British. These Protectors were backed up by no
less than the person of the Inspector-Geeral of Police. Maybe there were no Native
Amerindians in St. Vincent by the time that the East Indians started to arrive, but was the
title passed on from a time when there were? In British Guiana, the protector of the East
Indians was the Immigration-Agent-General. One of them (James Crosby by name) did
his job so well, and was so trusted by the East Indians, that many times in disputes with
the Estates/Plantations, they would walk off and attempt to go and see "Crosby". Even
when he was no longer there his office was known as "Crosby", and the East Indians
would still want to see "Crosby" regardless of the name of successive Immigration-
Agent-General. A great post James. Thanks. Richard - Hide quoted text -- Show quoted
text ------ Original Message ----- From: "James W Cropper" My family on St. Vincent
had interesting relationships with the new arrivals. One member Robert Porter
CROPPER (1829- ?) learned to speak their language when the "coolies" started arriving
in SV in 1861 ..... From Page 86 of the book :- "Called to Witness - Profiles of Canadian
Presbyterians" - editor W. Stanford REID. .... He was the son of R.P. Cropper, the
[Pine Hill is now Dalhousie University in Dartmouth, N.S.] Arthur Charles Dayfoot.
"The Shaping of the West Indian Church, 1492-1962." Gainesville: University Press of
Florida, 1999. Page 197: "The [Presbyterian] mission only became permanently
established in 1896, with the arrival of the Revd James B. Cropper who for forty years
became such a prominent figure that even after his time it was often referred to as 'the
Cropper Church.' About 1880 the government had begun to provide free land and
encourage workers who had completed their indenture to settle in unoccupied areas
(notably in those suitable for rice growing) rather than to return to India. Cropper, who
supported this policy, was appointed as 'Superintendent of East Indian Settlement' by the
government, but after some years went back to full time church work."
<jameswcrop...@sympatico.ca> To: <CARIBBEA...@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday,
June 09, 2003 6:36 AM
Jun 15 2003, 11:29 pm

Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 03:29:29 +0000 (UTC)
Church.
I found James Cropper's posting, which I have edited below, very interesting
and very re-freshing compared to the British Guiana experience and maybe
that of Trinidad and Jamaica. I will leave others on the list knowledgeable
about the situation in the last two countries to say what the situation was
there. But in British Guiana, where the London Missionary Society had gotten
a foot-hold before slavery was abolished, and since the LMS was the local
arm of the Abolitionists movement, the LMS did not take kindly to the
arrival of the East Indians.
In fact, like the abolitionists, they had opposed the introduction

Indentureship on the grounds of a New Slavery. This was all well and good,
but their sentiments towards the East Indians, was inculcated by the
ex-slaves and their descendants, and I think did a great deal of harm in
regard to the relationships between the two races.
The East Indians were seen as Heathens, and the ex-slaves who were being
Christianised were preached upon against associating with the Heathens and
about their Heathen practices. To be fair, the Missionaries all over the
world did the same, even when the Heathen were the unchristianised fellow
natives of whatever territories the missionaries were in. But in a situation
where the ex-slaves already felt that the East Indians and other Indentured
were taking their jobs and hence the food out of their mouths, the
preachings of the Missionaries did lasting harm. One can only imagine what
Portuguese/Madeirans.
And yet boys will be boys, and it was much to chagrin of the missionaries,
when the young children and young adults started tagging along behid the
Hindus when they celebrated their Festivals. Very soon certain festivals
were banned, for being disruptive to the work schedule on the
Estates/Plantations, but one also suspects also for the exhibition of
Heathenism.
And then there was the matter of dress or undress. It must be remembered
that by the 1840's it was already the Victorian era, with its abhorrence of
public nudity. Whereas before the end of slavery slaves were routinely in
some state of undress, at the end of slavery an Ordinance was passed
specifying the way that males and females should be dressed. Males in shirts
and trousers, females in frocks and petticoats and a head-scarf.
Then along came the East Indians who could be seen in states of undress, the
men clad in only loin-cloths and a "turban" and the females working
bare-breasted in the fields, as the slaves had done before them. More fuel
to the faggots of the Missionaries' anti-Heathen preachings.
It is refreshing to see how early one of the Croppers, a lay precher with
the Presbyterian Church, and Protector of Indians, jumped in to Christianise
the East Indians, even going a far as learning their language.
It is also not surprisising that it was the Canadian Presbyterians that led
the way. It was also this group of Prebyterians that did much to
Christianise and educate a significant number of East Indians to produce an
anglicised East Indian middle class in British Guiana.
One can also remark upon the title "Protector of Indians" mentioned by both
James Cropper and Guy Grannum. In British Guiana, there had long been
Protector of Indians, the Amerindians, a post begun by the Dutch and kept by
the British. These Protectors were backed up by no less than the person of
the Inspector-Geeral of Police.
Maybe there were no Native Amerindians in St. Vincent by the time that the
East Indians started to arrive, but was the title passed on from a time when
there were?
In British Guiana, the protector of the East Indians was the

Immigration-Agent-General. One of them (James Crosby by name) did his job so
well, and was so trusted by the East Indians, that many times in disputes
with the Estates/Plantations, they would walk off and attempt to go and see
"Crosby". Even when he was no longer there his office was known as "Crosby",
and the East Indians would still want to see "Crosby" regardless of the name
of successive Immigration-Agent-General.
A great post James. Thanks.
Richard
Tim Anderson
Jun 16 2003, 2:36 am
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 02:37:49 -0400
Church.
I have just 2 observations to add to this thread. I have gone over

the parish records in St. Patrick's Grenada from 1860 to 1931 as they
exist on the LDS microfilms. Concerning East Indians in the latter
part of the 19th: in the 1870s and 1880s about 50% of the baptisms
were for East Indian children and adults; the reason that I know this
is that the parish records clearly label these people as either
"coolie" or "native of Calcutta" or something similar.
"Rory McGregor"
I just finished watching this show on BBC4 in the UK .... it was quite good and the first
time I have seen a documentary about this outside of Trinidad.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcfour/documentaries/features/coolies.shtml COOLIES: THE
STORY OF INDIAN SLAVERY Monday 16 June 2003 9pm-10pm; rpt 1am-2am The
slave trade was officially abolished throughout the British Empire in 1807. This
documentary reveals one of Britain's darkest secrets: a form of slavery that continued
well into the 20th century - the story of Indian indentured labour. Coolies: How Britain
Re-Invented Slavery reveals the astonishing and controversial story of the systematic
recruitment and migration of over a million Indians to all corners of the Empire. It is a
chapter in colonial history that implicates figures at the very highest level of the British
establishment and has defined the demographic shape of the modern world. Combining
archive footage and historical evidence the programme includes interviews with Gandhi's
great grandaughter, Uma Dhupelia-Mesthrie, about Gandhi's campaign to end indentured
labour and David Dabydeen - author and academic - whose great grandfather was an
indentured labourer in British Guyana. Coolies: How Britain Re-invented Slavery traces
family stories through epic voyages across South America, the South Pacific and Africa,
as descendants investigate their past and trace the last surviving witnesses.
Jun 16 2003, 6:16 pm

From: mcgre...@usa.net ("Rory McGregor")
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 22:16:45 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: COOLIES: THE STORY OF INDIAN SLAVERY - BBC 4
I just finished watching this show on BBC4 in the UK .... it was quite good
and the first time I have seen a documentary about this outside of
Trinidad.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcfour/documentaries/features/coolies.shtml
COOLIES: THE STORY OF INDIAN SLAVERY

Monday 16 June 2003 9pm-10pm; rpt 1am-2am
The slave trade was officially abolished throughout the British Empire in
1807. This documentary reveals one of Britain's darkest secrets: a form of
slavery that continued well into the 20th century - the story of Indian
indentured labour.
Coolies: How Britain Re-Invented Slavery reveals the astonishing and

controversial story of the systematic recruitment and migration of over a
million Indians to all corners of the Empire. It is a chapter in colonial
history that implicates figures at the very highest level of the British
establishment and has defined the demographic shape of the modern world.
Combining archive footage and historical evidence the programme includes

interviews with Gandhi's great grandaughter, Uma Dhupelia-Mesthrie, about
Gandhi's campaign to end indentured labour and David Dabydeen - author and
academic - whose great grandfather was an indentured labourer in British
Guyana.
Coolies: How Britain Re-invented Slavery traces family stories through epic
voyages across South America, the South Pacific and Africa, as descendants
investigate their past and trace the last surviving witnesses.
"Richard Allicock"
Dean wrote: (16/06/03) "From what I have read, the Hindu festivals were permitted in
Trinidad, althought there were instances where the activities got out of control. I'll try to
look up a specific example." Hi Dean, Thanks for confirming the role of the Presbyterians
in Trinidad. In relation to the above, the same was the case in Biritsh Guiana. As you can
imagine, such festivals and their outcome did involve the "disturbance of the peace" as it
occasioned much use of alcohol and Bhang or Ganja. A good excuse to bann or limit
them. One thing that was banned was the use of the Tadja Drum for obvious reasons. This
is a huge drum that makes a booming noise. If there was something to disturb the peace
of the country-side, that drumming was one. African drumming had long been banned for
its communicative and conspiracy potential, so the banning of this and that cultural
activities or their limitation was nothing new. You know the old joke about the Golden
Rule? "He who has the gold makes the rules". Looking forward to your examples in the
case of Trinidad and from others in relation to the other Islands. Thanks. Richard - Hide
quoted text -- Show quoted text ------ Original Message ----- From: "Dean de Freitas"
<cari...@bellsouth.net> To: <CARIBBEA...@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, June 16,
2003 6:06 AM Subject: Re: East Indian Indenture Immigration W.I. /St. Vincent
Presbyterian Church. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Richard Allicock"
<rich...@idirect.com> > To: <CARIBBEA...@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, June 16,
2003 2:45 AM > Subject: Re: East Indian Indenture Immigration W.I. /St. Vincent >
Presbyterian Church. > <SNIP> > > And yet boys will be boys, and it was much to
chagrin of the missionaries, > > when the young children and young adults started
tagging along behid the > > Hindus when they celebrated their Festivals. Very soon
certain festivals > > were banned, for being disruptive to the work schedule on the > >
Estates/Plantations, but one also suspects also for the exhibition of > > Heathenism. >
<SNIP> > From what I have read, the Hindu festivals were permitted in Trinidad, >
althought there were instances where the activities got out of control. > I'll try to look up
a specific example... > <SNIP> > > It is also not surprisising that it was the Canadian
Presbyterians that > led > > the way. It was also this group of Prebyterians that did much
to > > Christianise and educate a significant number of East Indians to produce > an > >
anglicised East Indian middle class in British Guiana. > <SNIP> > The Canadian
Presbyterians were quite successful in Chritianising the East > Indians in Trinidad as
well. They set up schools etc., and it wasn't long > before the most fervent evangelists in
Trinidad were themselves Indians. >
Jun 19 2003, 4:53 pm

Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 20:52:57 +0000 (UTC)
Local: Thurs, Jun 19 2003 4:52 pm
Church.
Dean wrote: (16/06/03)
"From what I have read, the Hindu festivals were permitted in Trinidad,
althought there were instances where the activities got out of control.
I'll try to look up a specific example."
Hi Dean,
Thanks for confirming the role of the Presbyterians in Trinidad. In relation

to the above, the same was the case in Biritsh Guiana.
As you can imagine, such festivals and their outcome did involve the
"disturbance of the peace" as it occasioned much use of alcohol and Bhang or
Ganja. A good excuse to bann or limit them.
One thing that was banned was the use of the Tadja Drum for obvious reasons.
This is a huge drum that makes a booming noise. If there was something to
disturb the peace of the country-side, that drumming was one. African
drumming had long been banned for its communicative and conspiracy
potential, so the banning of this and that cultural activities or their
limitation was nothing new.
You know the old joke about the Golden Rule? "He who has the gold makes the
rules".
Looking forward to your examples in the case of Trinidad and from others in
relation to the other Islands. Thanks.
Richard
"James W Cropper"
Jun 22 2003, 3:40 pm
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 19:40:28 +0000 (UTC)
Church.
I'm back! Been off list due to technical problems with my server which was
blacklisted by Rootsweb. Only Auntie Virus would know the technical terms
"pinged" by a spammer. Back to business!
While Tim has gone through the parish records in St. Patrick's Grenada from
1860 to 1931, I have gone through the Transcripts of St. George Cathedral,
Kingstown, St. Vincent from 1765-1870. I became intrigued with entries when
the "coolies" start appearing in the early 1860's. Their place of birth is
not given in most cases but there were some from Madras and Calcutta.
Madras and Calcutta seem likely to be the ports the indentured "coolies"
embarked from rather than their actual birthplaces. Most parents are
referred to in East Indian names with the children baptized with "English"
names.
There are many references in the Baptisms to "by the Emperietrice Eugenia"
aka "Empretrice Eugenie", etc. It is difficult to tell if she had some
status in the Church of England, a translator, a respected member of the
East Indian Community, etc. On further checking she was only involved with
Baptisms starting in the late 1860's. Many of the baptisms where she was
involved occurred in the Colonial Hospital. The hospitalized child and
their siblings are baptized but not the parents. Many at the Cathedral
involve adults receiving "Christian" names with no mention of "East Indian"
names. There are no entries in Marriages and the Burials cut off at 1855.
These entries are a minority of the total. It is assumed that as
"indentured labourers", the majority of them would have been associated with
the rural churches and other dominations. Only those working near the
capital or hospitalized are probably in the Anglican Cathedral records.
In off-line discussions with Marcos he opined :- "Actually I think I

remember that Empress Eugenie, who got out of France with a lot of money,
set up a foundation to baptize 'heathens' that may have been run through the
Anglican Church worldwide. These baptisms in SV were probably paid for by
the foundation. Somewhere along the line she got the idea that God was
punishing her for her previous extravagant lifestyle."
Has anyone noticed the involvement of an "Empress Eugenie" or similar

Islanders to the new arrivals?
Jim C.
ps Over the years, SVG has produced stamps on many subjects. There is one
showing a ship ferrying people between India and the West Indies.
"John Weiss"
Jun 22 2003, 7:13 pm
From: john.we...@virgin.net ("John Weiss")
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 23:12:49 +0000 (UTC)
Church.
This suggested connection of the Empress Eugénie with Anglican baptism seems
a little odd to me, as she was deeply involved with the Roman Catholic
church. She was Empress until 1870, when Napoleon III capitulated to the
Prussians, and they then retired to England. She died in 1920, and during
the latter part of her life she devoted herself first to building a
mausoleum in memory of her husband (and later, their son) which was
connected with a Benedictine abbey - this was in Farnborough, Hampshire.
Can anyone find an explanation for her apparently recorded involvement in

Anglican baptism during the time she was still Empress in France?
[see Empress Eugénie's Quest for a Napoleonic Mausoleum

by Alison McQueen,
http://www.19thc-artworldwide.org/winter_03/articles/mcqu.html]
John Weiss
Jim Croper wrote (Sunday, June 22, 2003 12:42 PM):
"While Tim has gone through the parish records in St. Patrick's Grenada
from
> 1860 to 1931, I have gone through the Transcripts of St. George Cathedral,
> Kingstown, St. Vincent from 1765-1870. I became intrigued with entries
when
> the "coolies" start appearing in the early 1860's. Their place of birth
is
> not given in most cases but there were some from Madras and Calcutta.
> Madras and Calcutta seem likely to be the ports the indentured "coolies"
> embarked from rather than their actual birthplaces. Most parents are
> referred to in East Indian names with the children baptized with "English"
> names.
> .................
> >.....Baptisms starting in the late 1860's. ..........occurred in the
Colonial Hospital. The hospitalized child and

> their siblings are baptized but not the parents. Many at the Cathedral
> involve adults receiving "Christian" names with no mention of "East
Indian"
> names. There are no entries in Marriages and the Burials cut off at 1855.
> These entries are a minority of the total. It is assumed that as
> "indentured labourers", the majority of them would have been associated
with
> the rural churches and other dominations. Only those working near the
> capital or hospitalized are probably in the Anglican Cathedral records."
****************
My Comment:
Once again Jim Cropper has made a very significant contibution to this
thread, previously in regard to the efforts of the Presbyterian Church in
St. Vincent and now in regard to the Anglican Church. ( I have edited the
message above). Both Churches seem to have been very quick to embrace the
arriving East Indians to their respective churches.
The question to be asked is: "Were these Hindus being baptised or were they
already Christians from India? Were the Baptisms with or without the consent
of the parents? Was this the embrace of Christians from another area, or the
"saving of Heathen souls"? If the former, why aren't the parents names
mentioned, or the East Indian names of the children? If the parents were
Christians from India, why aren't their Baptismal names mentioned?
It must be remembered that Calcutta (along with Madras and Bombay) were the
principal areas of British dominance/influence via the the East India
Company, beginning in 1608. By 1717 the BEI Co. was exempt from paying taxes
and a few years after 1757, when they defeated the Nawab of Bengal at the
Battle of Plassey, they were empowered to collect revenues for the Moghul
Emperor. That authority basically meant that the Company ruled Bengal. Hence
the indentured immigrants were coming from an area of long established
Britishh religious influence.
It must also be remembered that the foundation of Social Darwinism had

already been enunciated in 1857 with the publication of Herbert Spencer's
Essay. By 1899 we get Rudyard Kipling's poem, "The White Man's Burden which
was not a general call to racial imperialism, (although it may have been an
expression of it), but an exhortation to the US to assume the tasks of
developing the Phillipines after victory in the Spanish-American War.
We must also remember, that the Spanish and Portuguese had very early
decided upon a policy of baptising the natives and Africans before imposing
slavery on them. And yet by the 18th century we have slave traders like the
famous John Newton, who was later an abolitionist, and author of "Amazing
Grace"; of other traders being troubled in their conscience that they were
dealing with human beings, but did it any way for pay and profit; and
others who were to even deny that African slaves had souls or were human
beings.
In England, when the Walloons and Huguenots started to arrive fleeing

persecution in the 16th Century, the parents were alowed their own
congregations but the children were enrolled in Anglican Churches, although
I am yet to establish how long this policy lasted, but a policy it initially
was. In North America, right in this century, in Canada, a policy was
decided upon, with the collaboration of the Christian Churches, to forcibly
assimilate the children of Natives in Residential Schools. They were
forbidden to use their Indian names and to speak their native languages.
So I wonder now what really was going on in relation the East Indians and
the Anglican Church in St. Vincent.
Were children and parents subsequently welcomed as members of the Church? If
so why not weddings in the church and burials after 1855?
Another great post Jim! Thanks!
Richard
Oct 21 2004, 8:45 pm

Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 20:45:41 -0400
Local: Thurs, Oct 21 2004 8:45 pm
Subject: Re: East Indians in the Caribbean: How May I Help You?
Turn up anything lately on Alfred Busby? He was we surmise a Burmese

Bengali livestock manager on St. Croix having come from Statia and
before that probably from Nevis. He was an ancestor of mine but also
Vargrave Richards and Roy Schneider.
Richard Bond
Oct 12 2004, 9:54 pm
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 21:54:56 -0400
Local: Tues, Oct 12 2004 9:54 pm
Subject: Re: Updated info on East Indians in the Caribbean to Include some ...
I am curious as to which St. Croix families may be descended from those

East Indian identured laborers who had came in under the Danes. I can
remember from past posts to the board an example of a West Indian from
St. Croix who had moved in the other direction. A portion of the
identured laborers returned to Calcutta at the end of their contracts. A
ship was chartered whose captain decided he needed another ship
carpenter. The carpenter married in India and left a family with
descendants over there. I was able to tell a contemporay Indian of West
Indian descent that he still had relatives in St. Croix.
Richard
Oct 14 2004, 11:54 am

From: "Richard" <Yud...@hotmail.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 15:54:50 GMT
Local: Thurs, Oct 14 2004 11:54 am
Subject: Re: Updated info on East Indians in the Caribbean to Include some...
It was through this newsgroup that I first learned that East Indians were
even indentured on St. Croix under the Danes, and I grew up there. I made it
a point to visit the library last year after returning to St. Croix (having
been away for 15 years) to look through archives of The Avis. Unfortunately
the years that would have covered the indentureship were kept in St. Thomas.
Another researcher was able to provide the name of the ship, SS Mars, on
which the laborers were transported.
If anyone in Charlotte Amalie, St. Thomas could find the announcement in the
St. Croix Avis from June 15, 1863 I would be interested in hearing the
details.
Richard B. Cheddie
Oct 21 2004, 10:59 pm
From: "Richard B. Cheddie" <Yud...@hotmail.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 02:59:45 GMT
Local: Thurs, Oct 21 2004 10:59 pm
Subject: Re: East Indians in the Caribbean: How May I Help You?
Now this posting surprise me as to the descendants of Mr. Busby.
I recently wrote to the National Archives of Nevis and they said that they
did not have any direct info on the subject, but references to it.
I have read some of Mr. Shamshu Deen's e-mails on the subject and it look
like the East Indian indentured laborers were upset about their plight and
might have have rioted.
As the name of the ship that took the East Indian indentured laborers to
Nevis was the Gainsborough, I am trying to find a copy of the passenger
list. The only info I have on a passenger is concerning a Muslim with the
surname Ali.
I have read you inquiry over the years and know that Busby is a name that
you are looking for. So when I find it I will post it. I guess we all are
not only searching for our roots, but for others as well
Richard B. Cheddie
Nov 5 2004, 8:41 pm
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 00:41:34 GMT
Local: Fri, Nov 5 2004 8:41 pm
Subject: References used on my site on East Indians in the Caribbean.
Someone called me out to provide my reference list for my website. So here

it is:
Bisnauth, Dale, The Settlement of Indians in Guyana 1890-1930, England:

Peepal Tree Press, 2000. ISBN: 1900715163
Birbalsingh, Frank, From Pillar to Post: The Indo-Caribbean Diaspora,

Toronto, Canada: TSAR Publications, 1997. ISBN:0920661661
Comins, Surgeon-Major D. W. D., Note on Emigration from the East Indies to

St. Lucia. Calcutta, India: The Bengal Secretariat Press, 1893.
Cropper, James W., E-mail dated Oct 22, 2004: Attached copies of 2 pages of
the 1869 Baptism Records from St. George Cathedral in Kingstown, St.
Vincent.
Deen, Shamshu, Solving East Indian Roots in Trinidad, Freeport Juction,

Bahamas: H.E.M. Enterprises Ltd., 1994. ISBN: 9768136251
Deen, Shamshu, Lineages and Linkages, Solving Trinidad Roots in India,

Chaguanas, Trinidad & Tobago: Print-Art Services Ltd.,
Deen, Shamshu, "Long-lasting Link between the Indians of Trinidad and Nevis"
The Independent Mar 7, 1998
Deen, Shamshu, "Nevis' Early Indians" The Independent Mar 21,19981998. ISBN:
9768157364
Dookhan, Isaac, A History of the Virgin Islands of the United States,

Kingston, Jamaica: Canoe Press, 1994. ISBN: 9768125055
Drouilhet, Sidney "Jim", E-mail dated Mar 28, 1997 in which he cites the
Colonial Office correspondences concerning the Blue Books for St. Lucia from
1859 to 1896.
East Indian Indenture and the Work of the Presbyterian Church among the
Indians in Grenada', Caribbean Quarterly 1 (1976),2-8-39. Canada and
Newfoundland
Harmsen, Joliet, PhD. (2004, Oct. 17 ). The East Indian Legacy in St. Lucia,
1 Article. http://www.slucia.com/visions/2002/indian.html
Latchana, Martin (Editor), Chalo: Commemorating the 160 Anniversary

(1838-1998) of Indian Presence in the Caribbean. Canada: The Caribbean
Education
Organization of Canada & Blue Graphics Inc.1998
Mangru, Basdeo, Indenture and Abolition: Sacrifice and Survival on the

Guyanese Sugar Plantations, Toronto, Canada: TSAR Publications, 1993.
ISBN:0920661327.
Mansingh, Laxmi & Ajai, Home Away from Home: 150 yeas of Indian Presence in
Jamaica 1845-1995, Kingston, Jamaica: Ian Randle Publishers, 1999. ISBN:
9768123389 or 9768123397
Michael E. Brach letters March 9, 1878 and August 22, 1879: Records of
dispatches from the Administrator of the Colonial Office of St. Lucia to the
Colonial Office, England, requesting more Coolie immigrants to work in the
estates of St. Lucia.
(PRO) CO384/102 National Archives document, which has correspondence on
'coolie' immigration in Grenada and Trinidad.
Rampersad, A., Indians in St. Lucia, Too, St. Augustine, Trinidad
:University of West Indies, 1986.
Report of the Committee on Emigration from India to the Crown Colonies and
Protectorates. Parliamentary Papers:1910,Vol 27 Cd 5192, PRO FCO 63/398
Richardson, Bonham C., Caribbean Migrants: Environment and Human Survival on

St. Kitts and Nevis, Knoxville, Tennessee: The University of Tennessee
Press, 1983. ISBN: 0870493612
Shepherd, Verene A., Maharani's Misery: Narratives of a Passage from India

to the Caribbean, Jamaica: University of West Indies Press, 2002. ISBN:
9766401217
Shepherd, Verene A., Transients to Settlers: The Experience of Indians in

Jamaica 1845-1950, England: University of Warwick and Peepal Tree Books,
1993. ISBN: 0948833327
Surinam: Suriname database on East Indian, Javanese, and Chinese indenture

Laborers: http://www.nationaalarchief.nl/suriname/
Surinam:
http://www.nationaalarchief.nl/suriname/base_hindo/database/engine/zo...
The French Islands: Guadeloupe - Jan 14", The St. Croix Avis. Christiansted,
St.Croix,12 Feb1867.
Thomas, Dr. Arnold, Remnants of the Great Coolie Scramble: The East Indians
of St. Vincent, From Indenture to Migration to Britain, Ealing, London:
Thames Valley Univ., 1995.
Tyson, J., Report on the Conditions of Indians in Jamaica, British Guiana,

and Trinidad 1938 - 1939, PRO FCO 63/398
Hope this answer the questions.
Richard B. Cheddie
Checkmate!
Richard B. Cheddie
Nov 14 2004, 10:56 pm
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 02:56:15 GMT
Local: Sun, Nov 14 2004 10:56 pm
Subject: Resources on East Indians in St. Croix at the National Archives in

Washington D.C.
http://www.archives.gov/research_room/federal_records_guide/governmen...
Record Group 55 Records of the Government of the Virgin Islands Danish West
Indies, 1672-1917:
a. Box 334 Volume "Coolie Journal" Relating to East Indian Immigrants,

1860s.
b. Box 341 Colonial Council Records Concerning East Indian Immigrants and
the Movement of Laborers in St. Croix, 1852-53.
c. Box 343 Bureau Loans, 1870s;Plantation Inventories and Accounts; Records

on East Indian Immigrants
Richard B. Cheddie
Dec 6 2004, 12:17 pm
Date: Mon, 06 Dec 2004 16:17:39 GMT
Local: Mon, Dec 6 2004 12:17 pm
Subject: East Indians: Changed the Website Format and Added more ships for Guyana
As per some of your requests, I have reformatted my website

www.geocities.com/yuddh1 to enable faster downloading, easier access to the
info involved, and free up space. Thanks for your suggestions. It normally
takes me three solid days to make those changes, so if you notice any broken
links please let me know.
I have also added more ships on Guyana. I also tracked down Dr. Arnold
Thomas, the author of "Remnants of the Great Coolie Scramble: The East
Indians of St. Vincent, From Indenture to Migration to Britain". I am
hoping that he will have more details on the indentured laborers that went
there. Time will tell.
I will continue to add the rest of the data that I have been receiving.
(Thank you John O'Connor for your help!)
Happy hunting!
Richard Cheddie
Richard B. Cheddie
Dec 16 2004, 9:16 pm
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 01:16:24 GMT
Local: Thurs, Dec 16 2004 9:16 pm
Subject: Nicolas Poussin: Ship that transported 277 Indians to Cayenne
The ship the Nicolas Poussin, captained by Mr. Galland, left Pondichery,
India on Sept 11, 1864 and arrived in Cayenne on Nov 30, 1864. There were
277 Indians aboard. There were 195 men, 54 women, 14 boys, and 14 Children
less than 10 years old. One man and one woman died from typhoid by the time
they reached Reunion which was one of the scheduled stops on this voyage
which took forty-days. Of the 277 Indians 12 men, 5 women, and 2 of the
children were from Karaikal. J. Plomb was the ship's surgeon 2nd Class.
===
Cayenne received about 8,500 East Indian indentured laborers, or "Les

Indiennes Engage". Many died in that colony, succumbing to disease and the
hardship of their plantation service. Many of the records for Cayenne were
lost in fire (like St. Lucia, St. Kitts, Nevis, etc) so not much is known
about the Indians there. The information above was found in the Maritime
Revue in a French Library.
Cheddie
Richard Bond
Dec 17 2004, 5:24 pm
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 16:24:50 -0500
Local: Fri, Dec 17 2004 5:24 pm
Subject: Re: [Carib-L] Nicolas Poussin: Ship that transported 277 Indians t...
Aren't the East Indians in Cayenne in the minority? If the colony had
that many engagees I wonder where they went. Projecting the same sort of
increase that they had elsewhere there should be many more. According to
this statistic sheet the Indian community must have merely doubled in
the past century. British Guyana was pestilential as well but the
increase seems to have been more.
E-thologies: French Guiana

Address:http://www.e-thologies.com/nav-en.asp?ISO=GF
I was extrapolating before from family stories of people I had met.
Richard B. Cheddie
Dec 19 2004, 3:19 am
Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 07:19:05 GMT
Local: Sun, Dec 19 2004 3:19 am
Subject: Re: [Carib-L] Nicolas Poussin: Ship that transported 277 Indianst...
The East Indians in Cayenne are in the minority. Over 8,000 were indentured
there, but I do not know how many returned to India. I do know that many
died in that colony. For whatever the reason info on Cayenne tend to be
scarce, even though they play a vital part of France's space program and
French Foreign Legion train there and protect some of those sites. I am
continuing to dig to see what I can find.
Thanks for the link below.
Richard B.Cheddie
Richard B. Cheddie
Jan 9 2005, 8:20 pm
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 00:20:16 GMT
Local: Sun, Jan 9 2005 8:20 pm
Subject: Roll Call: St. Lucia Rati, Merai, Chedi, Kisna, Badal, :Antigua: Appleton,
Solomon, Henry, Patience
I love these roll calls because everyone become re-energized and some of the
best tidbits get posted:
My personal Research is for the Rati, Merai, Chedi, Kisna, and Badal Indian
families that were indentured in St. Lucia. Joseph Rati, Soban Rati, Ramdath
Merai, Badalia Merai, Joseph Chedi, Ram Chedi, Roopan Chedi, Dina Chedi,
Merilia Kisna, Rose Kisna, and Ma Badal.
In Antigua, the descendants of Jane Ann Henry and Robert Appleton (I find
these two name couplings in Barbados, but I have no record of the family
coming from Barbados), Mary Patience, Olive Solomon, and Doanes Solomon
In Trinidad, descendants of Mamraj Singh and Parvati Singh, Elesebeth Sammy,

Mary Roopmin, Beni Madho, Charlotte Madho, Mongroo Joshua, and Cheddie
I also research the East Indian indentured laborers in Caribbean Basin:

www.geocities.com/yuddh1 and www.groups.yahoo.com/group/bhatchaman.
Regards,
Richard B Cheddie
Richard B. Cheddie
Jan 23 2005, 11:58 am
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 15:58:35 GMT
Local: Sun, Jan 23 2005 11:58 am
Subject: St. Vincent's East Indian Diaspora
St. Vincent's East Indian Diaspora

-This article was written by Steve S. Bullock, a descendant of indentured
Indians on St. Vincent. Bullock is the Associated Press reporter on St.
Croix in the United States Virgin Islands. He is also a part time professor
at the University of the Virgin Islands -
The following is based on my research into the origins and settlements of

indentured east Indians on St. Vincent between 1860's and 1920's.
At least four brothers with the last name Ram Ballack Singh were part of a
contingent that came to St. Vincent from the Bihar province.
Each was assigned to separate estates in Argyle (southeast coast of the

island), Calder-Escape (five miles away), Fountain, south of the island
(four miles from the current location of the E.T. Joshua Airport, and in the
Yambou-Acers-Dickie area, located six miles inland from the Argyle estate.
The Indians who settled in Argyle-Calder-Escape-Yambou areas worked on the

Argyle Estate, which was one of the largest sugar cane plantations on the
island.
Many subsequently befriended King Jaja, (1821-1891) the exiled king of Opobo
(Opobu), Niger Delta, who was banished to St. Vincent in the early 1880's
after he opposed British interference and colonial attempt to monopolize the
lucrative palm oil industry in the delta regions of Nigeria, which his Ana
Pepple Trading House (tribe) controlled.
King Jaja was taken to St. Vincent and lived for about three or four years
on the Spring Estate, located to the north (on the outskirts) of the Argyle
Estate.
King Jaja and the Indians of the day shared and learned from each other's
agriculture and culinary traditions before the British agreed to repatriate
him to Africa.
He died en route to his native country, according to the British.
He was so loved and adored by his Opobo people that they offered to pay the
British to return his body to Nigeria, where he was buried.
My research and interviews with ancestors of the four brothers indicate that
all four came with their wives from India.
Their last name Ram Ballack Singh was changed by the plantation owners to
Bullock, which is a popular Anglo-American (Caucasian) last name. For
example Sandra Bullock, the American movie star and Mayor/Councilman Steve
Bullock of Lewisham, London, England
The Bullock's family and lineage is now one of the more prominent Indian
families on St. Vincent.
Their extended family number about 500 and they continue to live in or
adjacent to their original settlement locations.
The Bacchus family is another prominent Indian family who settled in the
Richland Park area of the island (five miles north of Marriaqua located in
the middle of the island).
Many descendants from the Bacchus and Bullock families subsequently married
and are now closely related by marriage.
Other indentured Indians who were brought to St. Vincent were also given
(assigned) Anglo-Saxon surnames including Deane, Lewis, Laban, Woods, Jack,
Latchman, Baptiste, Carr, Harry, Sutherland and Leisure.
One or two families were allowed to keep) retain their Indian names. For
example, the Singh family of Dickie.
Today the descendants of Indian indentured servants in St. Vincent number

between 3,000 and 4,000 out of a total population of 115,000.
Many are prominent government employees, including doctors, dentists,
bankers, and educators, while others are involved in commercial and
entrepreneurial activities.
One prominent Indian, Dr. Sinclair Thomas, an ENT Specialist, was a senator
and minister of Health in the former James Mitchell administration between
1996 and 2000.
Dr. Junior Bacchus, another indentured Indian descendant is a prominent

optomologist on the island.
Murray Bullock is the director of the government run St. Vincent & the
Grenadines National Lotteries.
Indian owned businesses include JAX (Jack's) Enterprises, Summer Ware,

Linmur, Murray's Ville, Deane's Pharmacy, Eatrite, Ken's Enterprises.
Many have intermarried with other races including the indigenous Carib
Indians, Afro-Caribbean and Garifuna extractions.
Garifunas or black Caribs are descendants of Carib Indians who

intermarried/interbred with African slaves who were shipwrecked or brought
to the island.
Most of the original Garifunas (4,300) were captured/abducted by the British

colonial powers and banished to two barren/uninhabited islands ( Baliceaux
and Battoweia) located a few miles south of St. Vincent in 1797.
The Garifunas were later taken to Roatan, an island off the coast of Central
America near Honduras and were subsequently resettled in present day
Belize.
Many of the remaining Garifunas who escaped British capture live today in
the north and northeast coastal areas of Sandy Bay, Owea and Fancy in an
unofficial Carib reservation.
Many descendants of indentured Indians and Garifunas have intermarried.
Today, Indians live in other areas of the island, including, Georgetown,

Dixion, Caratal, Park Hill, South Rivers, Colonaire, Dorsetshire Hill,
Biabou, Rosehall and Mesopotamia.
Richard B. Cheddie
Jan 23 2005, 10:41 am
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 14:41:19 GMT
Local: Sun, Jan 23 2005 10:41 am
Subject: Guadeloupe is conducting end of celebration of the 150th anniv of the arrival
of indentured laborers
Today Guadeloupe is conducting the closing ceremony of their year long

celebration of the 150th anniversary of the arrival and contribution of the
East Indian indentured laborers to the island. This ceremony was to have
taken place in Dec, but because of the earthquake they moved it back to
January. In respect for the victims of the tsunami victims, the larger
celebrations have been scaled back. They will be erecting a monument, which
will also be inaugurated by M. Lurel, President of G'pe Regional Council and
M. Henri Bangou, Mayor of Pointe-a-Pitre. It faces the sea at the very spot
where the first Indians landed in 1854. It's a modern representation of a
monument with Indian/cosmic symbols.The text on the plaque is both moving
and enlightening.
Martinique had their celebration in 2003. There are still a number of former
colonies for which the 150th anniversary has not yet arrived: Grenada
(2007), St. Vincent (2011), St. Lucia (2009), St. Kitts (2011), Nevis
(2024), St. Croix (2013), Suriname (2023), and Belize (2007)
Richard B. Cheddie
Nov 18 2004, 12:46 pm
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 16:46:11 GMT
Local: Thurs, Nov 18 2004 12:46 pm
Subject: Article I wrote in 1997 on Researching in St. Lucia
Saint Lucia is a 238 square mile Caribbean island nation about 1500 miles SE
of the US mainland. St. Lucia has a very rich and colorful history from its
inhabitation by South American Indians, colonization by European powers, to
the introduction of African slaves and East Indian indentured laborers. It
is this blend of cultures that make St. Lucia a very interesting place to
visit. I recently returned from a two-week trip to St. Lucia where I met my
paternal kin for the first time and tried to trace one hundred years of my
family's history on the island.
When researching your St. Lucian heritage the first thing that you have to
remember is that your family is the greatest source of genealogical
information. They may hold the key to finding out that one vital piece of
data necessary to close a whole chapter of your research. I was able to see
pass a couple of clerical errors in the records I researched because I took
the time to interview, re-interview, and cross interview my relatives before
I went to St. Lucia. Take the time to note the names and nicknames that they
give you. Find out what part of the island the family lived, worked, or
visited. It will pay dividends.
Nicknames in St. Lucia are so common, even friends and family members may
know each other only by their nicknames. Hardly anyone knew my grandfather's
name was Richard, but mention the nickname "Chum" and you would get an ear
full of his antics. Friends, family members, and even enemies gave most of
these nicknames to the individuals from early childhood and the names stuck.
Another thing to remember when searching for leads in St. Lucia is that most
St. Lucians are either descendants of former African slaves or East Indian
indentured laborers. A vast majority of them were coerced or forced to be
baptized, after which they were given Christian names. For example, my
paternal great-grandfather Ramdath Mirai was given the name Peter after
being baptized. Depending on the time of baptism, some of the birth records
listed his children as being fathered by Ramdath Mirai , Peter Merahie, or
even Ramdath Peter. It did not help that most of the Catholic priests at the
time were French, which resulted in further variation of the spelling of
Mirai: Merahie, Merraie, Meralice, Maralice, Murai, etc. There are also
cases where the Christian name was added in front of the original names. My
great-great grand Uncle Ram Cheddie was baptized as Paul.
In the records held by the Catholic Church, all of his children have their
father listed as Paul Ramcheddie. The priest also wrote Chedy instead of
Cheddie. To add further challenges to the arduous researcher, the East
Indian laborers who were given Christian names after baptism often passed
this new name onto to their descendants as the family's new surname. My
great-great grand Uncle Sobhan Rattie's descendants still sign Antoine as
their surname today.
The Central Registry is the second best source of genealogical information.

However, it can be the most difficult place from which to obtain
information. Baptisms, marriage, divorces, deaths, name changes, land deeds,
and a slew of other vital statistics are deposited in the Central Registry,
some going back to the 1600's. Although there are a few computers available
to the clerks, virtually all the information are still maintained in log
books. The front entrance of the Registry is a short hallway with counters
and a wire mesh screen on the right side. You take a number and wait until a
clerk calls on you. The Registry is a very busy place. The best time to go
to there is early in the morning before the crowd does. By the late
afternoon, the heat, crowded hallway, and frustration of the patrons can get
the best of any clerk and lessen their enthusiasm to help you. You would
need some form of I.D. and a little extra cash since a certified copy of
your document could cost $5.00 USD or more; especially if the clerk has to
search through many logs to find your information. Some searches could take
more than a week, so doing one's homework can help cut this time down
greatly, and even put a smile on the clerk's face. I find that it was a lot
easier to mail in my requests. It cut down on the expenses by half and a
response was often more forth coming than going there in person. I send
US postal money orders of $5.00 for each search.
The Catholic Church Presbytery is the third main source of genealogical

information in St. Lucia. The hours for the Presbyteries vary. They normally
operate between the hours of 09:00 AM to noon, are closed from noon until
3:00 PM, and then are reopened from 3:00 PM to 5:00 PM. They are closed on
Tuesday or Wednesday, always on Sunday. Saturdays are normally only half
days. There is usually a church in each of the larger towns, so it is very
important that you find out which area your family members lived during the
time of their births, death, marriage, etc. Records of these events are kept
in logbooks, one for each year, at the Presbytery. Each of these entries is
given a reference number and is listed in order, by year, in an index log.
Index logs contain listings for more than one year.
The index logs are the keys to the vast storehouse of information kept by
each church. A typical baptismal listing would have the individuals name,
year, and place of birth, name of mother, name of father, and names of
godparents. After the clerk finds the correct listing in the index, the
reference number is used to look up the corresponding logbook entry. A
certified copy of the entry can be had for $5.00 EC or less than $2.00 USD
in cash. Entries prior to 1960 were typically written in French. If you know
French ask the clerk to let you read the entry. It typically contains one or
more valuable pieces of information that would not be placed on the copy of
the certificate that you get.
After X amount of time all the logbooks are sent to the Central Registry in
Castries. For instance, all the logbooks before 1920 for Vieux Fort, the
largest city at the south end of the island, have already been moved to the
Central Registry. However, each Presbytery maintains a copy of the index
logs for their church only. I was able to search indices that go back to the
late 1700's in Micoud, another town on the East of the island.
The fourth valuable of source of information is St. Lucia National Archives.

The archive houses some of the oldest material available on the island. It
had quite a bit of information dealing with European sources, as well as,
those dealing with the importation of East Indian indentured laborers.
Private Citizens donated many of the documents found in the there, or copies
were obtained from other Caribbean archives, such as from Grenada. Many of
St. Lucia's original records were lost in two great fires, one in 1927, and
the other in 1941.
The St. Lucia National Archives is located right next to the airport in
Castries, the runway being only a few hundred yards away. A taxi ride from
Castries is cheap. It is one of the few places I visited that allowed me to
physically search the records at my own leisure. Once again a basic
understanding of written French, or good a French dictionary would be a good
investment before searching here. There was only one computer available, but
it was not available to the researcher. A photocopier is available.
The last major source of information is the Central Library. The pickings
here are slim, but you can never tell when a gem may be found among the
various works. On my trip I was able to obtain a very informative paper on
the East Indians indentured laborers in St. Lucia. The reference section is
located upstairs in the library. Bags and large purses are not allowed into
the reading area to prevent book theft. They can be left at a check in
station near the front receptionist desk, where an attendant keeps watch
over them.
The key to researching in St. Lucia is to be persistent and thorough. Even

if someone says that a particular record is unavailable, still search for
it. It may turn up in the most unexpected place. A source of information
that I heard was available but did not tap into, was the private collections
held by some former plantation families. No one knows how large this source
is, but the value of it should not be underestimated. Plan your searches
carefully and you will not be disappointed.
The final tip that I can offer is when going about to conduct research, be
aware that some places do not have public places to eat, especially in some
smaller towns. Moreover not all places have public restrooms. There is one
at the Archives, none at the Central Registry, and some Presbytery do not
have one, but the church would. In either case walk with your own supply of
toilet paper.
Richard B. Cheddie
Richard B. Cheddie
Nov 23 2004, 10:18 pm
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 02:18:41 GMT
Local: Tues, Nov 23 2004 10:18 pm
Subject: The Archives Indian Labour

It always amazes me when I run across new websites concerning East Indian
indentured laborers online. It is good to see this information out there.
I spend many hours seeking them out.
I ran across this one
The Archives Indian Labour
http://www.indialabourarchives.org/home.htm
Richard B. Cheddie
Nov 24 2004, 7:46 pm
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 23:46:27 GMT
Local: Wed, Nov 24 2004 7:46 pm
Subject: The Search for East Indians Indentured laborers in the Caribbean Continues
I spent most of today searching the internet and e-mailing various

Archivists and Librarians around the world on my project of documenting all
of the ships that brought East Indian indentured laborers to the Caribbean.
I also requested a few more searches in the PRO. I am hoping to get
1. Document Reference(s): CO 384/103

Instructions for Copying: Portions that include the Ships and names of East
Indian Labourers. At least Surgeon Certificates

Indian Labourers

Indian Labourers

Indian Labourers (CO 101/116/23 )
I hope to increase our knowledge of laborers.
Richard Cheddie
Richard Bond
Dec 10 2004, 6:49 pm
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 17:49:10 -0500
Subject: Re: We finally have the list of ships that took the East Indian ind...
Most of the East Indians who went to Cayenne did not go there
directly. The French colony had a small and highly cyclical economy that
drew in people from the other French colonies and the patois speaking
British Windward colonies. Likewise many of the Surinamers were also
down coast migrants from British Guyana. The Dutch colony of Surinam had
sufficient scale for direct shipment but a lot went through Guyana
first.
Richard B. Cheddie
Dec 12 2004, 2:48 pm
Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2004 18:48:08 GMT
Local: Sun, Dec 12 2004 2:48 pm
Subject: Re: We finally have the list of ships that took the East Indianind...
That would explain a lot. I spent a few days exploring some info from France
and I found some info on the Nicolas-Poussin which took laborers to Cayenne.
I think that country lost a lot of records in a fire some years ago. Fire
seem to be the bane of all researchers in the Caribbean, which is why they
should be working in digitizing their info.
Cheddie
Richard Bond
Dec 17 2004, 5:24 pm
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 16:24:50 -0500
Subject: Re: [Carib-L] Nicolas Poussin: Ship that transported 277 Indians t...
Aren't the East Indians in Cayenne in the minority? If the colony had
that many engagees I wonder where they went. Projecting the same sort of
increase that they had elsewhere there should be many more. According to
this statistic sheet the Indian community must have merely doubled in
the past century. British Guyana was pestilential as well but the
increase seems to have been more.
E-thologies: French Guiana

Address:http://www.e-thologies.com/nav-en.asp?ISO=GF
Richard B. Cheddie
Dec 19 2004, 3:19 am
Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 07:19:05 GMT
Local: Sun, Dec 19 2004 3:19 am
Subject: Re: [Carib-L] Nicolas Poussin: Ship that transported 277 Indianst...
The East Indians in Cayenne are in the minority. Over 8,000 were indentured
there, but I do not know how many returned to India. I do know that many
died in that colony. For whatever the reason info on Cayenne tend to be
scarce, even though they play a vital part of France's space program and
French Foreign Legion train there and protect some of those sites. I am
continuing to dig to see what I can find.
Thanks for the link below.
Richard B.Cheddie
Richard B. Cheddie
Jan 26 2005, 6:57 pm
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 22:57:45 GMT
Local: Wed, Jan 26 2005 6:57 pm
Subject: Names of 20 Indians who arrived on the Travancore to St. Vincent June 1,
1861
The Travancore was the first ship to transport East Indian indentured
laborers to St. Vincent. It sailed from Madras on February 26, 1861 with 258
laborers. Two infants were born during the voyage, which took 92 days. There
were 160 adult males, 62 adult females, 18 boys, 13 girls, and 7 children.
Since these were South Indians, the authorities would have had a harder time
spelling the laborers name correctly. Note #8: Beemah v.s. Bima.
The rest of the info (age, father's names, etc) on these individuals will be
loaded on my website, www.geocities.com/yuddh1 , later today. I have to do
it piecemeal since it costs to order the reference materials and transcribe
them in readable format, or fellow researchers have to adjust their own
schedules to copy info and send me.
Slowly, but surely I am uncovering this info. Enjoy:
1--Cheugleroyew
2--Patradoo
3--Seethiah
4--K. Suttiah
5--Yerrigadoo
6--Chinniah
7--Rajeegadoo
8--Beemah
9--Singapermall
10--Nursimloo
11--Pynidiah
12--Appadoo
13--Ramadoo
14--Juggaloo
15--Ramaloo
16--Appadoo
17--Ramdoo
18--Ungadoo
19--Thummadoo
20--Neukiah
Sincerely,
Richard B. Cheddie
Richard B. Cheddie
Feb 5 2005, 7:30 pm
Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2005 23:30:04 GMT
Local: Sat, Feb 5 2005 7:30 pm
Subject: 226 names for the St. Vincent ships
I have uploaded all 226 names for various ships transporting East Indian
indentured laborers to St. Vincent and I am in process of acquiring the
next 103!
Remember that the names are in order by Registry number so you may have to
scroll down lists on www.geocities.com/yuddh1 under St. Vincent, to see all
of the names that I have posted. Those that have the "?" means that I had to
guess because of challenges in reading the original.
Happy hunting for your ancestor.
For those that are interested in the Portuguese in St. Vincent, there is an
Indepent Researcher that I can provide contact info on that would be willing
to take up the search.
Richard B. Cheddie
Richard B. Cheddie
Feb 9 2005, 12:11 am
Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2005 04:11:55 GMT
Local: Wed, Feb 9 2005 12:11 am
Subject: Names Travancore to St. Vincent 1861
I received, transcribed, and uploaded today, 230 names of the 260 East
Indian indentured laborers for the Travancore to St. Vincent in 1861. This
list includes father's name, age, height, sex, districts, villages, and body
marks.
These are on my website at www.geocities.com/yuddh1
I am expecting additional info on the St. Vincent ships.
Richard B. Cheddie
"Cyril Jardine"
Jan 23 2006, 6:31 pm
From: cjard...@mba1976.hbs.edu ("Cyril Jardine")
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 22:31:19 +0000 (UTC)
Local: Mon, Jan 23 2006 6:31 pm
Subject: Presbyterians in Trinidad ca. 1890
I think my grandfather, James Toolsie, was a Presbyterian minister or

catechist in Princes Town from 1890 to 1924 when he immigrated to NYC. How
can I verify this? Is there a central repository in Trinidad or elsewhere
that contains the names of Presbyterian ministers and catechists in the East
Indian community of Trinidad?
Richard Bond
Apr 21 2006, 3:17 am
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 03:17:47 -0400
Local: Fri, Apr 21 2006 3:17 am
Subject: Re: Richard Bonds email [Carib-L] Fw: Re:History of Haiti
I was born on St. Croix, USVI and I have been inerested in history of
the island since an early age. There is a picture of me in the National
Geographic in an article which ran in 1972. It shows me at the Whim
Great House Museum at the age of 11. My mothers mothers mother
was a Busby whose father was an East Indian
immigrant who raised small livestock at various
places on the island. My mother moved back from St. Thomas in 1948 and
my father moved there in 1952.
I believe that there were some plays held in front of the fort which of
course is near the old printing shop. There were also some taverns on
Hospital Street but I do not remember or know the details. there were
still Neumanns living in the neighborhood forty years ago.
Lisa Hall
Apr 23, 10:28 am
From: "Lisa Hall " <Lisa.H...@budgetmarine.com>
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 10:28:03 -0400
Local: Mon, Apr 23 2007 10:28 am
Subject: Birth Records in Trinidad
I have been trying to get some birth records 1890-1900 and I have just
been told by the archivist at the National Archives that they are in a
bad condition and can not be made available to the public.
It is so vexing and frustrating for me as a Trinidadian to get any

information that is over a hundred years old.
Lisa
Apr 23, 2:15 pm

From: j...@aol.com
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 14:15:28 -0400
Local: Mon, Apr 23 2007 2:15 pm
Subject: Re: Birth Records in Trinidad
Have you tried the Mormon Library (www.familysearch.org)? They ahve

microfilmed/microficed most of the records in the Caribbean, and you can borrow them
to view at a Mormon Library near you.
Jennifer
Nevilla E Ottley
Apr 23, 7:25 pm
From: "Nevilla E Ottley" <clase...@erols.com>
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 19:25:59 -0400
Subject: RE: Birth Records in Trinidad
The Mornan LDS IGI do not have many Trinidadians, but more of the upper
Caribees (Jamaica, Antigua, St Kitts--called St. Christophers) and almost
all of Barbados. I have noticed that they have T'dad from about 1900.
John Weiss
Apr 23, 7:43 pm
From: John Weiss <john.we...@virgin.net>
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 00:43:21 +0100
A few years ago, when most of the BMD records were still in the Registry
archives in the Red House (in the 'Vaults') I had special permission
from the Registrar General to browse early volumes for my research into
the Company Villages near Princes Town. Some volumes had already gone to
the National Archives for conservation, and many of those that I looked
at were in such fragile condition that I recommended more ought to go to
the NA immediately and should not be handled again - in some cases a
page would fall into fragments as soon as you touched it, leaving a
jigsaw puzzle for a good conservator to sort out. I would have thought
1890-1900 would be in a better state, but it's quite right for the NA to
take no chances, and I suspect they have not the resources needed to
check the condition of everything. It's a shame the early documents were
not filmed years ago, but it's likely that by the time filming was
considered, they were already too fragile for the handling that filming
involves.
John Weiss
London
Researching the origins of the Merikens of the Company Villages of Trinidad
(see www.mcnish-weiss.co.uk)
Nevilla E Ottley
Apr 24, 8:57 am
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 08:57:25 -0400
Local: Tues, Apr 24 2007 8:57 am
Subject: RE: Birth Records in Trinidad--WE CAN HELP MAKE THEM AVAILABLE
I know. So do I. My grandmother was born in 1895, and my great-grandmother

was born in 1861, but I have not been able to get their birth records, just
death records. I wonder if they would let some of us volunteer to help
preserve those records.
Why do I say so? I went to the PRO in the UK, thanks to the kindness of Dr.
John Weiss, and with my digital camera, and no flash, was able to get pics
of important records. Suppose, just suppose, there was a project, where
some of us "genealogists" were to go to Trinidad, and volunteer to spend a
week photographing the records for their website. Then they would be able
to share them with us all over the world without again touching the records
themselves. Just 12 people helping one week each would be 12 weeks of work,
and a lot can be accomplished. They would handle the records, and we would
photograph them, and download them on to their system from our cameras. We
would help ourselves, for then the records would become available for us,
and we would be helping them.
If you all think this is a good idea, then please share it with the powers
that be in Trinidad, and see what happens. I have to be in Trinidad twice
this summer on performance tours of two different groups. I could spend a
week in August when our performances are finished.
Nevilla E. Ottley in Maryland USA
Dorothy Kew
Apr 24, 6:53 am
From: "Dorothy Kew" <d...@cogeco.ca>
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 06:53:41 -0400
The LDS (Mormons) have not microfilmed any records for Trinidad. A search of the
Family History Library Catalogue brings up only a few books which are presently in the
library at Salt Lake City and do not circulate to Family History Centres.
Dorothy
John Weiss
Apr 24, 9:40 am
From: John Weiss <john.we...@virgin.net>
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 14:40:42 +0100
Subject: Re: Birth Records in Trinidad--WE CAN HELP MAKE THEM AVAILABLE
Nevilla
Some of those Trinidad records really are in a bad condition, and I

really did find some that were, unexpectedly, so fragile that the pages
fell to pieces as the book was opened. Even an experienced conservator
would have some considerable trouble in opening those records safely,
and I think they do not have enough trained staff even to evaluate all
the volumes, though if they could do at least that, they might identify
those volumes that would be safe to handle.
The photography aspect would be fine for those volumes that are
accessible, but as far as I know the standard restriction on photography
at the various National Archives is that the photography is for one's
own personal use and is not to be distributed in any way, and certainly
not published - that's the standard restriction at the UK National
Archives (PRO) and I expect it's the same in the US. But a co-operative
and voluntary project of that kind would be worth discussing with the
T&T Archivist.
I omitted to mention the possibility of church registers of baptisms,

marriages and deaths. This requires a lot more searching around, first
to find out which churches might be involved, then to establish whether
the records were preserved, and finally to find out who holds them. I
did this for Fifth Company Baptist Church in Trinidad (somewhere near
Matilda Junction) and was taken to meet the current pastor, who then
informed me that only a few years back, the woman who was responsible
for holding the registers was so upset by a proposal to give the job to
someone else that she burned the lot. So, it's not only termites and
humidity and poor quality paper you have to contend with.
John Weiss
London
Lisa Hall
Apr 24, 9:54 am

Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 09:54:13 -0400
That last paragraph describes the attitude of many in Trinidad. If we
can't do it then no one can.
I have found though that the people at the National Archives are very
helpful and are quite willing to help but of course they are bound by
certain restrictions.
I was speaking to someone at the Registrar General's office and she said
that she was lobbying for them to do a proper audit of the vaults.
However when I spoke to the lady again she was leaving and was not going
to renew her contract with that office.
I know with the Anglican Church each parish maintains their records. I
guess depending on the wealth of the parish that would probably
determine the condition of the records.
Lisa
Nevilla E Ottley
Apr 24, 10:00 am
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 10:00:35 -0400
Oh, what a pity about the condition. I went to the cemetery in San
Fernando, where I found my grandmother's death records, and they were using
the originals which were also falling apart!!!!! We were lucky as we knew
her exact death date and could find the record even though part of the name
had been eaten away by age or whatever.
Whoever has the name of the T&T Archivist, and a contact number or e-mail,
would you please share it with us. Then we can make a proposal to him or
her on the "cooperative and voluntary project". The records would stay at
the Archives, but would be available for families to access their own
records.
Nevilla
Lisa Hall
Apr 24, 10:23 am
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 10:23:25 -0400
The Government Archivist is Helena Leon. The National Archives number is

868-625-2689. Ms. Leon is a very beautiful lady I think she really wants
to do better but I think she is restricted by funding.
However where implementing policy (I think that is where the major

problem is) it is very, very important that you also write a letter to
the Minister of Public Administration and Information. The Honorable Mr.
Lenny Saith. The National Archives falls under his purview.
Lisa
Lisa Hall
Apr 24, 7:21 am
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 07:21:15 -0400
Subject: RE: Birth Records in Trinidad
I understand their position. The gentleman at the archives did say to me

that they lack manpower and the resources needed to do the job. I think
what is upsetting is that certain parts of my family history I have to
gloss over.
Lisa
LAnde12781
Oct 11 2000, 3:00 am
From: LAnde12...@aol.com
Date: 2000/10/11
Subject: Re: Grenada Films, Spanish table cloth
Anne... about ordering too many LDS films.... seems there are a lot of us
tryin g to search the very difficult Greneda.....and it took me almost four
months to get my film as apparently they were all out.....if you do get
any....keep them for permanent if you can... My small LDs in the next town
mistakenly sent them back and now I have to do it all over again...Plus
,..you will find your self wanting to go back and look at things again when
you see a new connection...........I have been given a few film numbers that
weren't even on the file for film rental.....and that was only a year
ago.......my little LDS church nearby had NO clue at all about Greneda much
less whre it was located......and I think I could have found more....I
finally got the films given after an LDS member searched and came up with
film numbers etc.........
When you go to the computer at LDS....first thing you do it to MAKE a COPY of

the available films they have and once you have that sheet to go by then you
can check them off as you go.......I did that and what a help as I made notes
on the attached sheet as too results ....(ex. a few were badly filmed and or
torn etc. and were almost unreadable ) it will save you a lot of going
back.... now its my turn to go back and do the same... as some of the films
that have been given on this site I had never seen listed.....
Be specific,,,if you can,,,, as some of these films were combined and some
were only pertaining to a particular parish etc......so if you you were
looking up records for the Catholic church...the Presbyterian church etc...
found that out the expensive way.......
If you have any information as to new films etc...please pass them along...as
I said I am discovering new ones all the time......thanks...would appreciate
it... and be prepared to wait for your film...unless they have some
speedier methods by now....
Goods luck....keep me posted....
Lenora
ps... One last hint...when you order the films they will give you a card
board backed slip for each film ordered.......best way to keep track of what
and where is to purchase one of those plastic check files the size of an
envelope and keep these cardboard slips in that.... and write on the back
the names you found on that film or any other comments you might want to go
back to later........its easy to carry and an easy reference all in a small
compact carryable file......you'll be glad later!
Jim Lynch
Oct 11 2000, 3:00 am
From: j...@candoo.com (Jim Lynch)
Date: 2000/10/11
Subject: Re: Grenada Films, Spanish table cloth
To Lonora and everyone else...
For the general benefit of everyone on the interent I would be glad of any
additional microfilm information that is not already in the lists on my site so
I can make it as full and updated as possible...
http://www.candoo.com/genresources/microfilms.htm
Please check what you have/know against what is already there, and let me know
of any differences. So much of the film numbers and references are hard to find
in the LDS catalog and/or CD it is of immense benefit to have it all in one
place where it can be printed or copied.
I am also very short on researchers available in the islands. If anyone knows of

researchers who are not listed PLEASE let me have their contacts so I can offer
them FREE listing and find out if they are actively looking for such work. I
WILL get their permission first, but I need the initial contacts - there is no
charge to be listed.
Thanks in advance...
James C. "Jim" Lynch

416-968-9749
http://www.candoo.com/
http://www.candoo.com/resume/index.html
Tikwis
Mar 8 1999, 4:00 am
From: tik...@acenet.com.au (Tikwis)
Date: 1999/03/08
Subject: Vital Records in Guyana
>I wish to check births and deaths in former British Guiana (now
>Guyana) between 1860 and 1880. Can anyone advise the address of the
>Guyana Government Department that would house these archives?
>Thanks,
>Ash
1. Government Archivist, Ministry of Education and Culture, 20 Main

Street, Cummingsburg. Georgetown, Guyana 2. Karen Sills, Chief
Librarian, National Library, PO Box 10240, Georgetown, Guyana. 3.
Registrar General, General Registrar Office, Guyana Post Office
Building, Robb Street, Georgetown, Guyana.
A historian replied to a fellow researcher in 1997: "Compulsory

registration of births and deaths in Guyana was not instituted until
the middle of the nineteenth century. The Church of England and the
Presbyterian Church in Guyana do have records of births and deaths for
that period for their own members, but these are not deposited in the
National Archives.
In general I can only advice you that there are no facilities for
genealogical research in this country, and that owing to the fact that
there are so many lacunae in both the public and private records,
tracing ancestors is a tiresome and usually unrewarding business. I
know of no-one who undertakes this kind of research locally, for the
simple reason that those who have some familiarity with the state of
the archives and the fragmentary nature of the documentary heritage in
Guyana, know very well the difficulties that are involved in such
investigations."
Thus one receives little satisfaction from Government Departments in

Guyana. To date I have received no replies to any of the letters I
have written over the past couple of years (even with the offer of
payment); so I am building up my own collection of lists etc.
I hope you have better success.
I have two BDM indexes for The Colonist 1864 - 1880 and The Argosy
1880-1896, which just gives the year the name is mentioned. If you
would like to let me know what the names are that you are researching
I'll check these indexes and my own collection of bits and pieces.
Regards
Tikwis
tik...@acenet.com.au
The above document makes interesting reading but there are a few inaccuracies. If you
have questions please ask them in the Bhatchaman groups at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bhatchaman/
Or e-mail me at:
lharradan@hotmail.com

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Subject: Records of East Indians in St. Lucia by Plantation Families

Here is a response that I received about the availability of records once

Not only does my family have no records of its estates in St Lucia, it

Jun 26 2002, 10:48 pm

Subject: Some Individuals in St. Lucia and Grenada circa 1891

4. Bhowanibhick, age 55, son of Chowpaie ,5' 7.25",who originally came on

8. Hosanee, General Register number 1033, of Roseau Estate, received a

13. Motee registered 2 Pounds, 10 Shillings on 11 Mar 1885 to be sent to

18. Durma came on the Bracadaile in 1885. Worked as a Chaukidar on the

20. Anwar, worked at Ressources Estate during 1891.

21. Oomur, worked at Ressources Estate during 1891.

24. Ramnath (boy) was employed by Retraite Estate during 1891

4. Cooman Sing ran a shop.

1. Macleod had changed his name.

Subject: [CARIBBEAN-L] Indian Migration to Jamaica

Richard B. Shiva-Ram Cheddie

Subject: Ugheer Passenger List?

I will be posting his genealogy on my website:

Subject: surnames: soodeen, premdas, bunsee

Thanks in advance for any help!

Subject: Estate books of Trinidad

Hoping someone can help me.

Subject: Re: Estate books of Trinidad

or this to start a new search (I entered Trinidad, letter code T,

Subject: RE: Estate books of Trinidad

In Father Anthony de Verteuil's book "Eight East Indians", he describes

Here is a link for those interested in researching East Indian indentured

Subject: Re: Ships and Indentured East Indians

A Return to the Middle Passage: the Clipper Ship "Sheila", by

John McNish Weiss

Subject: Re: Ships asn Indentured East Indians

I have attempted to compile a list of ships that brought and repatriated

May 30, 1845

Oct 22 2000, 3:00 am

Nov 11 2000, 4:00 am

Nov 16 2000, 4:00 am

According to Father Anthony de Verteuil in his book "Eight East Indian

1. General Registers - Lists of immigrants by year, boat, name, estate they

2. Estate Registers - Sorted by estate and gives details about an

3. Ship's Registers - Lists of immigrants for each voyage including name,

From: Christel Monsanto, promoting Caribbean Art

Subject: Re: {CARIBBEAN-L]Voyages of East Indian Indentured Laborers

Subject: East Indian Indentured Laborers (Book)

Subject: Plantation Owners in St Vincent

The Map appears to be a computer drafted drawing with many plantations

Any help would be appreciated.

Subject: Re:San Fernando Gazette Book

Craving the indulgence of the group, and as clarification:

Book I provides lists of property owners in the Borough of San Fernando

Book II comprises lists of Burgesses of San Fernando. These lists

Book III is a compilation of Applications for Licenses to sell

Book IV is composed of two unusual lists—a Juror’s List for San

Book V is an extracted list of birth, death and marriage announcements.

Subject: Some Individuals in St. Lucia and Grenada circa 1891

4. Bhowanibhick, age 55, son of Chowpaie ,5' 7.25",who originally came on

8. Hosanee, General Register number 1033, of Roseau Estate, received a

13. Motee registered 2 Pounds, 10 Shillings on 11 Mar 1885 to be sent to

18. Durma came on the Bracadaile in 1885. Worked as a Chaukidar on the

20. Anwar, worked at Ressources Estate during 1891.

21. Oomur, worked at Ressources Estate during 1891.

24. Ramnath (boy) was employed by Retraite Estate during 1891

4. Cooman Sing ran a shop.