Professional Documents
Culture Documents
Washington, DC
Page 1
1 SENATE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE
2 U.S. SENATE
3 WASHINGTON, D.C.
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12 WASHINGTON, D.C.
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1 APPEARANCES:
4 Chairman Grassley
6 Chairman Grassley
8 Chairman Grassley
10 Chairman Grassley
12 Chairman Grassley
14 Senator Graham
16 Senator Feinstein
18 Senator Feinstein
20 Senator Feinstein
22 Senator Whitehouse
23
24
25
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1 APPEARANCES: (Cont'd)
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1 I N D E X
2 EXAMINATION
3 PAGE
4 By Mr. Davis 11
5 By Ms. Sawyer 52
6 By Mr. Davis 95
7 By Ms. Sawyer 138
8 By Mr. Davis 180
9 By Ms. Sawyer 227
10 By Mr. Davis 260
11 By Ms. Sawyer 290
12 EXHIBITS
13 EXHIBIT PAGE
14 Exhibit 1 11
8/3/17 letter agreement
15
Exhibit 2 30
16 Privilege log
17 Exhibit 3 138
BuzzFeed memos
18
Exhibit 4 196
19 Filing in UK litigation
20 Exhibit 5 205
(Not described)
21
Exhibit 6 261
22 Meeting notes
23
24
25
Page 5
1 MR. DAVIS: Good morning. This is the
8 Magnitsky Act.
10 the record.
16 staff.
Page 6
1 MR. BROWN: Joshua Flynn-Brown, Investigative
4 Senator Feinstein.
6 Senator Whitehouse.
10 Feinstein.
Page 7
1 do so.
14 today's interview.
22 Simpson.
Page 8
1 possible. So we will take our time. If you have
Page 9
1 sufficient explanation so that the committee can
Page 10
1 investigation. That statute applies to your
3 that?
19 interview.
Page 11
1 depend on your level of cooperation and candor.
16 identification purposes.
20 being here.
23 EXAMINATION
24 BY MR. DAVIS:
Page 12
1 background?
12 organized crime.
14 Journal?
15 A. In 2009.
18 A. That's right.
Page 13
1 Williams, M-A-R-G-O-T Williams, and another
3 right now.
8 Washington Post.
10 business?
13 have?
18 A. No.
22 operations?
Page 14
1 and staff. Basically I concluded that the work
12 company.
22 Fusion GPS?
Page 15
1 I organized my new business. So I just picked a
12 GPS?
24 subcontractors?
Page 16
1 part of it, but the other part is: are there other
4 BY THE WITNESS:
19 GPS?
23 business entities?
Page 17
1 Q. And what's the name of that LLC?
5 that to you.
16 up?
21 States?
22 A. No.
24 account at ?
25 A. Yes.
Page 18
1 MR. LEVY: I don't know that we need to get
4 objection?
6 interview.
11 those answers.
13 questions.
15 BY MR. DAVIS:
17 any?
18 A. DuPont Circle.
22 Q. Is it Suite 400?
23 A. It is.
Page 20
1 Q. In general, what is Fusion GPS's business?
3 consulting firm.
5 had?
8 litigation.
11 he finished.
13 BY THE WITNESS:
Page 21
1 inquiries more than try to push things, but, you
7 A. Yes.
Page 22
1 clients in which the amount of Fusion's
5 recollection.
11 an investigation?
18 an investigation?
20 interview?
Page 23
1 can evaluate whether it's appropriate to discuss
3 exists.
7 9:55.
10 It's 10:02.
11 BY MR. DAVIS:
15 time.
21 an investigation?
Page 24
1 Generally speaking, when we do a research
Page 25
1 file a lawsuit, you can go to the police. You
22 initiating an investigation?
Page 26
1 categorical because we've done a lot of work over
12 I'll clarify.
Page 27
1 you need me to clarify for any specific question,
2 just ask.
17 BY MR. DAVIS:
20 Prevezon Holdings?
Page 28
1 pretty much, you know, a conventional understanding
2 of litigation support.
8 prosecutor.
19 of record.
Page 29
1 So, you know, a lot of instruction came from him
8 2016.
25 my strong suit.
Page 30
1 MR. FOSTER: But you could figure it out
14 identification.)
15 BY MR. DAVIS:
Page 31
1 A. I don't know.
10 BY MR. DAVIS:
13 A. Yes.
17 please?
20 efforts?
22 efforts"?
Page 32
1 Act, prevent the passage of the global Magnitsky
9 BY THE WITNESS:
21 A. Let's do that.
25 Prevezon case?
Page 33
1 A. Yes.
16 background?
Page 34
1 needed to find out were things that were in Russia
7 BY MR. DAVIS:
9 engagement?
14 engagement?
19 Russia.
21 speaking.
24 this interview.
Page 35
1 and you are not under compulsion to answer any
8 BY MR. DAVIS:
22 That's common.
24 be providing?
Page 36
1 particularly. Forensic people, accountants, PR
3 litigation.
6 by Prevezon Holdings?
13 to Baker Hostetler?
20 avoiding taxes.
Page 37
1 Prevezon who were part of the case. Other people
8 to them?
14 do.
Page 38
1 A. There were several. We actually, you
10 BY THE WITNESS:
15 Russia who had been extorting them and who they had
Page 39
1 the first thing the lawyers need to know is whether
5 the truth.
17 corruption.
Page 40
1 law enforcement that western law enforcement did
7 Russia.
Page 41
1 first thing that we did was we researched the
Page 42
1 He was willing to, you know, hand stuff off to the
16 William Browder.
Page 43
1 forgot about those. We can get you that. This is
3 record.
Page 44
1 he did with one of the Baker lawyers.
Page 45
1 story about Vladimir Putin corruption and he
8 Putin's Russia.
23 people.
Page 46
1 history in Russia we began to learn about the
9 Russian securities.
Page 47
1 In fact, William Browder famously said in
8 Russia in 2006.
Page 48
1 company.
11 done.
17 on-line.
Page 49
1 that I began to be curious and skeptical about
11 Bill Browder. Can you tell us who that was and who
23 follow-up in before --
25 BY THE WITNESS:
Page 50
1 A. I'll just finish with one last thing and
12 rise.
Page 51
1 Bill Browder did business with the mayor's office
10 can't tell you why, but I can tell you that Peter
Page 52
1 office in New York.
18 10:45.
21 EXAMINATION
22 BY MS. SAWYER:
Page 53
1 asking the questions. They may have some
2 follow-up.
7 questions.
Page 54
1 a lot, corporate records a lot. Some of my
19 presidential.
22 services?
Page 55
1 happened or they don't know what happened, they
4 of our work.
Page 56
1 like a McDonald's cheeseburger.
15 methodology.
Page 57
1 research is then, of course, you try to apply it to
24 on the side."
Page 58
1 A. In a shorthand way, yeah. I mean, it's
7 them off.
13 research as well?
Page 59
1 Q. And then, by extension, when you're
4 President Trump?
5 A. Yes.
24 BY THE WITNESS:
Page 60
1 about -- it's like a lawyer wouldn't talk about one
Page 61
1 more than one matter, but to the extent that would
Page 62
1 election and you clarified that that was work
3 What can you tell us about that work? Can you just
5 some follow-up.
Page 63
1 divorces, his casinos, his early years dealings
11 at it.
15 implicate privilege.
16 BY MS. SAWYER:
22 identity of clients.
23 BY MS. SAWYER:
Page 64
1 October 2015, what were you asked specifically to
2 do by the client?
14 background?
18 BY MS. SAWYER:
21 to pursue?
24 Q. Sure.
Page 65
1 someone to tell me look here, don't look there.
19 BY THE WITNESS:
24 order.
Page 66
1 earlier you had indicated that sometimes when facts
10 you can't.
11 BY THE WITNESS:
Page 67
1 any of the actual findings from that research and
2 that engagement?
3 A. Yes.
Page 68
1 originally that caught my attention and became
17 involved in.
Page 69
1 openly in Moscow as a fugitive from U.S. law for a
12 area.
Page 70
1 about the connection between and in the business
3 Mr. Sater?
19 account for.
Page 71
1 his business career, his finances. We spent a lot
10 than that.
Page 72
1 various state and local authorities saying that
4 was it shared with the client that you had for that
13 engagement ended?
Page 73
1 investigation, you know, particularly of Donald
18 was a billionaire.
19 BY MS. SAWYER:
24 engagement ended?
Page 74
1 Q. And in general when do you think that
2 ended?
3 A. Spring of 2016.
6 BY MS. SAWYER:
14 A. Yes.
16 engagement began?
20 A. Nothing.
Page 75
1 MS. SAWYER: Okay.
3 confidentiality.
10 BY MS. SAWYER:
15 you?
17 about this.
20 sotto voce.)
22 that question.
24 declining?
Page 76
1 would implicate privileges and obligations that
4 BY MS. SAWYER:
22 research.
Page 77
1 Trump. Is that accurate?
2 A. Yes.
6 A. Yes.
11 of 2016.
13 or June of 2016?
Page 78
1 that time, but we were at a point where we were --
19 Russia.
Page 79
1 something in particular as a trigger. I mean, the
6 explanation.
14 relationships.
19 recall.
23 computer system?
Page 80
1 about hacking of the Democrats and Democratic think
7 specifically remember.
10 A. Yes.
Page 81
1 investigations. Sometimes a controversy would
11 with him?
20 and what they can find out and then there's just a
24 ways.
Page 82
1 but he's basically a Boy Scout. You know, he
Page 83
1 we gave Chris a sort of assignment that would be
15 A. In Russia?
16 Q. Yes.
Page 84
1 end of the Prevezon case we asked him to help with
4 Ukraine.
6 of 2016?
7 A. Yes.
13 presidential election?
17 I do.
20 litigation matter?
21 A. No.
Page 85
1 that you had with him related to Candidate Trump?
4 with him?
9 BY THE WITNESS:
14 A. Yes.
21 A. Yes.
Page 86
1 instructions. We spoke on the phone about various
10 (indecipherable).
13 explore?
16 research yourself?
Page 87
1 business dealings with Russians. I mean, Chris's
6 focused.
Page 88
1 were talking about it freely. It was only, you
Page 89
1 issue all my life and when you're trained in
16 clients?
Page 90
1 Q. Did either client know that you had hired
9 committee.
10 BY MS. SAWYER:
Page 91
1 just whether or not the clients specifically spoke
10 today.
11 BY MS. SAWYER:
16 to our colleagues.
Page 92
1 both deal with multiple clients. So we don't talk
8 BY THE WITNESS:
18 Candidate Trump?
24 agreement?
Page 93
1 business is not my strong suit, but it's a general
Page 94
1 the same thing.
16 run down. So, you know, for example, he, you know,
Page 95
1 try to determine the credibility of what we were
2 reading.
18 12:06 p.m.
19 EXAMINATION
20 BY MR. DAVIS:
Page 96
1 Prevezon's side of the story to see if it was
6 Is that correct?
13 BY THE WITNESS:
16 lot of stuff.
23 filings.
Page 97
1 the Prevezon case and the information you found out
3 A. Yes.
16 BY THE WITNESS:
23 background information.
Page 98
1 authorization regardless of specific interactions
Page 99
1 MR. SIMPSON: It depends on the case.
14 questions.
15 BY MR. DAVIS:
18 case?
Page 100
1 them?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Politico?
13 that.
17 A. I think so.
Page 101
1 know, it ended up being an issue of why he didn't
5 these things.
18 thing.
Page 102
1 research too. So there was obviously a sharing of
8 sources.
Page 103
1 that they had provided to Fusion?
11 an idea.
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. Do any --
18 documents.
20 speak Russian?
24 subcontractor.
Page 104
1 any other support from Russian-speaking individuals
9 people?
Page 105
1 wrong. My question is were there instances where
Page 106
1 story. So for much of this case it was reactive
24 BY MR. DAVIS:
Page 107
1 did Fusion provide any information regarding the
12 Q. Okay.
16 A. Yes, I do.
19 A-K-H-M-E-T-S-H-I-N.
20 BY MR. DAVIS:
23 Journal.
25 business?
Page 108
1 A. Some kind of PR consulting lobbyist. I
9 with him. You know, I've bumped into him over the
13 case.
Page 109
1 but it wasn't a business thing. I don't think I
11 something.
15 years ago.
19 escapes me.
23 Fusion GPS?
24 A. Not to my knowledge.
Page 110
1 GPS for use in your work?
8 specifically recall.
10 for work?
11 A. Not to my knowledge.
Page 111
1 other issues came up two plus years into the case
8 congressional stuff.
9 BY MR. DAVIS:
12 meetings?
18 Lieberman is.
Page 112
1 them were working on the -- I don't know what to
5 lobby Congress.
6 BY MR. DAVIS:
11 Hostetler.
19 focus of my work.
Page 113
1 on several occasions I'm in Moscow or I'm going to
4 government.
Page 114
1 Russian government wasn't germane really. It just
6 question.
8 A. Yes.
10 Ms. Veselnitskaya?
13 Ms. Veselnitskaya?
19 Prevezon litigation.
Page 115
1 came from Prevezon.
4 A. No.
8 Prevezon?
Page 116
1 for, you know, chain of evidence reasons went from
9 work?
24 have been?
Page 117
1 There were a couple of dinners in New York and a
6 A. Yes. Two.
9 was in D.C.
16 dinners?
Page 118
1 remember who else was there. But anyway, she sat
5 chit-chat.
16 prosecutor.
20 A. No.
23 government?
25 Q. Beyond that?
Page 119
1 A. Beyond that my impression of her was of
10 world.
14 years ago.
21 him?
22 A. No.
Page 120
1 together was the issues about alleged tax evasion
11 work?
24 something.
Page 121
1 Mr. Lieberman has ties to the Russian government?
2 A. No.
4 A-R-A-K-E-L-I-A-N?
13 really know.
15 Robert's business?
16 A. I don't know.
19 A. Not to my knowledge.
Page 122
1 Q. Were you aware that he was a registered
3 A. No.
10 Hostetler?
16 A. No.
18 Katsyvs?
Page 123
1 him; is that correct?
4 Prevezon work?
19 Prevezon. I never --
Page 124
1 think the lawyer for Denis. So beyond that I
2 don't know.
3 BY MR. DAVIS:
10 A. No.
12 A. Yes.
16 business?
17 A. Public relations.
19 Group?
23 A. Yes.
Page 125
1 he's paid us.
17 film.
Page 126
1 lawyers and people trying to suppress free speech
4 A. I don't know.
24 Prevezon case.
Page 127
1 in establishing this screening. Do you know how he
9 friends.
20 creating HRAGI?
23 remember.
Page 128
1 A. I remember hearing about it. I remember
9 W-I-L-E-S?
Page 129
1 Q. Do you have any reason to believe that
3 A. No.
17 on the Hill.
24 Hill?
Page 130
1 Congressman named Hill. I don't know if it was a
5 or committees?
13 meetings?
21 A. I don't know.
25 States in June?
Page 131
1 A. I was. She had trouble getting a visa and
12 June 9th in New York, and that was the way that she
25 correct?
Page 132
1 A. I believe it was June 9th.
10 recollection of it.
19 A. Yes.
21 A. In D.C.
Page 133
1 A. Not that I recall.
6 meeting beforehand?
7 A. No.
9 before?
10 A. No.
12 meeting?
20 she was at the other end with Rinat and she doesn't
23 entertaining.
Page 134
1 else, I wouldn't --
2 Q. Right.
18 A. I don't.
Page 135
1 information about this that would allow me to say
8 A. No. No.
11 A. No.
14 matter?
20 confess it to me.
25 K-A-V-E-L-A-D-Z-E.
Page 136
1 A. No, I don't know.
11 government?
25 A-N-A-T-O-L-I, S-A-M-O-C-H-O-R-N-O-V.
Page 137
1 A. I met him in connection with this case.
5 hearing to start.
8 A. No.
23 same day.)
24 AFTERNOON SESSION
Page 138
1 It's 1:55.
2 EXAMINATION
3 BY MS. SAWYER:
12 accurate.
22 about.
24 identification.)
25 BY MS. SAWYER:
Page 139
1 Q. And so I'm going to show you what we will
13 A. Yes, it is.
22 with.
Page 140
1 A. To the best of the my knowledge as part of
Page 141
1 would be Orbis, not Fusion GPS?
4 report.
9 or --
10 A. No.
12 ahead.
13 BY THE WITNESS:
16 and second.
Page 142
1 had dates, would you have been receiving them
6 these memos?
Page 143
1 particular, you know, several in the former Soviet
10 source.
Page 144
1 hacking. I don't really remember the precise
6 the campaign.
19 that you can prove, things that you can say, things
Page 145
1 that was the big question, was this credible.
8 first --
11 A. Correct.
13 June 2016?
Page 146
1 identified here.
6 for a moment.
8 BY MS. SAWYER:
18 things.
20 BY THE WITNESS:
Page 147
1 I don't think I've ever been involved in. So in an
20 the information?
Page 148
1 somehow be used, does it have any use and that sort
3 credible information.
22 government.
Page 149
1 know, reviewed or backed up. On the question of
Page 150
1 historical precedent for a foreign government to
Page 151
1 there were more -- that you considered in assessing
Page 152
1 Manafort, you know, there was this previous episode
8 that?
Page 153
1 and that's the Pro-Russia party or was the
8 A. Yes.
12 reporting?
15 BY THE WITNESS:
17 the Internet.
21 BY MS. SAWYER:
24 Mr. Manafort?
Page 154
1 Q. Let's start with the Wall Street
2 Journal?
19 Q. Okay.
Page 155
1 I understand it, is that the Trump people were
12 sentence?
18 information.
21 about that.
24 Tower meeting?
25 A. Yes. Yes.
Page 156
1 Q. Okay.
12 appreciate.
19 A. No.
22 memo?
Page 157
1 to engage in an open-ended research project?
9 the beginning.
16 BY MS. SAWYER:
19 particular avenues?
20 A. No.
24 A. No.
Page 158
1 A. I'm sorry.
4 A. No.
12 Mr. Steele?
16 information?
Page 159
1 We've seen hacking in politics before, but this
10 had already met with the FBI about the first memo.
14 matter here.
Page 160
1 enforcement issue about whether there was an
24 accurate.
25 A. Sure.
Page 161
1 Q. So after Mr. Steele had found out the
6 A. That's my recollection.
9 anyone else?
10 A. That's right.
16 I know of.
Page 162
1 or had been compromised. And the whole problem of
16 ex-journalist.
Page 163
1 he had gathered that made him concerned about the
3 going to be blackmailed?
20 mentions --
Page 164
1 the domestic side of what was the KGB. In practice
7 of that?
Page 165
1 obligation.
5 A. No.
Page 166
1 provide you.
12 December or November.
15 election.
18 have been?
19 A. My understanding of?
21 the FBI.
22 A. I believe it was a
, an official named
24 .
Page 167
1 that you had with Mr. Steele about potentially
7 information?
10 that question.
11 BY MS. SAWYER:
14 A. No.
16 on to go to the FBI?
17 A. No.
19 go to the FBI?
20 A. No.
Page 168
1 A. I don't know.
8 BY THE WITNESS:
12 the time.
19 investigation?
Page 169
1 ask.
4 from him?
18 A. Yes.
Page 170
1 the Democrats and the efforts by the Russians to
19 of July 2016?
Page 171
1 really front and center now in the election. I
10 were up to something.
Page 172
1 you know, I gave them a full briefing.
19 A. Sure.
22 A. That's my understanding.
Page 173
1 Q. So in that intervening time period
4 A. Yes.
7 with the FBI and then mid to late September did you
16 referencing?
19 computer crime.
22 computer crimes?
23 A. Yes.
Page 174
1 ask him to go back to the FBI -- whether anyone
10 with?
Page 175
1 and, you know, other details based on their own
15 that question.
19 BY THE WITNESS:
Page 176
1 Russians tend to get hurt.
5 to this matter.
6 BY MS. SAWYER:
10 A. No.
20 BY THE WITNESS:
Page 177
1 Q. And when did he share that information
2 with you?
6 September of 2016?
18 available?
24 in Rome?
25 A. Yes.
Page 178
1 Q. Now, with regard to -- just to finish up
Page 179
1 Sometime thereafter the FBI -- I understand
4 inside the FBI and there was a concern that the FBI
8 them.
17 the research?
18 A. No.
20 A. No.
Page 180
1 him, that kind of thing.
9 give me a moment.
11 record. It is 2:58.
15 EXAMINATION
16 BY MR. DAVIS:
18 E-M-I-N, A-G-A-L-A-R-O-V?
20 about him?
22 BY THE WITNESS:
23 A. No.
25 A. No.
Page 181
1 Q. Has Fusion ever worked with either of
2 them?
3 A. No.
6 A. Not to my knowledge.
8 A. No.
10 A. No.
12 A. No.
15 Magnitsky work?
16 A. Not to my knowledge.
19 dinners?
22 BY THE WITNESS:
24 attend.
Page 182
1 A. I specifically remember he was at the
5 dinner.
11 ones.
18 BY THE WITNESS:
21 Q. I was.
Page 183
1 much most of the Baker legal team was there,
19 already described?
Page 184
1 them influencing U.S. policy?
11 that.
24 laughter.
25 BY THE WITNESS:
Page 185
1 A. We did not believe that was being done on
5 government?
20 investor.
Page 186
1 where their money comes from and who their clients
6 businessman.
11 matter?
Page 187
1 worked on the project investigating then candidate
2 Donald Trump?
13 confidential.
Page 188
1 MR. SIMPSON: We keep books and records. We
22 BY MR. DAVIS:
25 2016?
Page 189
1 MR. LEVY: The meetings?
3 BY THE WITNESS:
23 already ended.
Page 190
1 MR. LEVY: Talk about what the "it" was when
3 BY THE WITNESS:
21 ad hoc to something.
23 A. Yes, I did.
Page 191
1 the Trump project. Was there any overlap of other
4 A. Not to my recollection.
7 A. Yes.
11 as well?
20 BY THE WITNESS:
Page 192
1 Q. Do you believe that the FBI generally
4 A. That's my understanding.
8 A. No.
10 A. Yes.
13 A. I do not.
15 A. No.
17 Business Intelligence?
24 associates?
Page 193
1 connection with that engagement?
13 line.
Page 194
1 MR. SIMPSON: Generally not.
8 correct.
11 BY MR. DAVIS:
Page 195
1 long did their engagements last?
6 generalize.
9 Mr. Steele had told you that the FBI had a source
18 BY THE WITNESS:
19 A. I don't know.
24 campaign.
25 BY MR. DAVIS:
Page 196
1 Q. And did Mr. Steele tell you that the FBI
5 of the filings --
16 identification.)
17 BY MR. DAVIS:
Page 197
1 provided to it by the Defendants in the course of
5 treated?
10 Steele.
11 BY THE WITNESS:
15 material?
20 confidentiality.
22 contract?
25 BY MR. DAVIS:
Page 198
1 Q. Was it established by practice?
5 that and so am I.
Page 199
1 nothing to his knowledge. It's just simply a point
12 the relationship.
15 he did.
19 understanding.
21 rule works.
Page 200
1 you're not going to provide us with details about
18 about voluntarily?
Page 201
1 evaluate it.
23 us that?
Page 202
1 did Orbis ever authorize you to share the memoranda
3 BY THE WITNESS:
17 memos.
22 Orbis?
Page 203
1 different matters, what we could say and what we
2 couldn't say.
16 with him?
Page 204
1 MR. DAVIS: On page 5 --
10 BY MR. DAVIS:
Page 205
1 MS. SAWYER: Were these documents that were
9 Washington Times.
11 identification.)
12 BY MR. DAVIS:
Page 206
1 person. In addition, and again at Fusion's
18 A. Maybe, yeah.
20 BY THE WITNESS:
Page 207
1 tally of this. It's mostly right.
4 A. I think so.
8 Mr. Steele?
9 A. Yeah. Yes.
11 A. Possibly, yes.
14 afterwards.
15 BY MR. DAVIS:
17 meetings?
18 A. No.
21 A. Yes.
24 the FBI?
Page 208
1 Q. Did Mr. Steele ever indicate to you
2 whether the FBI had asked him not to speak with the
3 media?
9 talk to them.
13 each?
20 to answer.
25 question.
Page 209
1 MR. FOSTER: What's the privilege?
5 about?
9 BY MR. DAVIS:
21 journalists?
Page 210
1 associates.
9 meetings?
12 forth.
13 BY MR. DAVIS:
16 without Fusion?
19 be more specific?
Page 211
1 present?
4 BY THE WITNESS:
16 did not?
23 BY MR. DAVIS:
Page 212
1 and Mr. Steele --
3 BY MR. DAVIS:
13 I see it now.
Page 213
1 relationship between you and the client, did Fusion
8 BY MR. DAVIS:
10 those paragraphs?
15 BY MR. DAVIS:
19 services?
Page 214
1 that that is, in fact, not covered by ordinary
2 confidentiality.
7 A. When?
8 Q. At any time.
10 mean by that?
13 reimbursements?
15 context.
16 BY THE WITNESS:
18 fact, it was --
20 BY THE WITNESS:
Page 215
1 the time?
16 him?
22 take a break.
Page 216
1 3:55.
5 BY MR. DAVIS:
13 knowledge.
15 them?
17 either.
19 personnel?
22 BY THE WITNESS:
Page 217
1 that.
3 investigation?
4 A. Not to my recollection.
8 associates?
9 A. No.
13 A. No.
Page 218
1 MR. DAVIS: Sure. Understood. To be clear,
4 inquiry.
5 BY MR. DAVIS:
25 BY THE WITNESS:
Page 219
1 A. If you want to know the rest of the story,
Page 220
1 Andrew Wood. I don't remember whether Andrew
Page 221
1 rights, and I was reporting on human rights and
2 corruption in Russia.
6 and the Kremlin and the rise of the new Russia and
Page 222
1 trust him, and he said okay. Well, he was here, I
11 BY MR. DAVIS:
16 BY MR. DAVIS:
20 information?
Page 223
1 conference where, you know, someone who had some
6 Mr. Kramer.
20 A. No.
Page 224
1 MR. DAVIS: Anyone we've left out.
5 BY MR. DAVIS:
9 those.
15 answer that.
16 BY MR. DAVIS:
20 contained therein?
22 knowingly.
Page 225
1 A. It would be difficult -- nothing specific
6 any recollection.
14 this time.
Page 226
1 not us.
2 BY MR. DAVIS:
5 project?
17 process.
25 Sorry.
Page 227
1 MR. DAVIS: So in your meetings with
4 on of information to them?
5 BY THE WITNESS:
6 A. I don't recall.
11 It's 4:30.
12 EXAMINATION
13 BY MS. SAWYER:
20 the FBI?
Page 228
1 had broken off with them.
8 two of us.
13 day.
23 BY MS. SAWYER:
Page 229
1 that Director Comey had alerted Congress to
24 matters.
Page 230
1 were talking to the media about were things in the
14 campaign?
15 A. No.
25 to do is stand down.
Page 231
1 Q. And had he been reaching out affirmatively
8 contact?
13 know.
Page 232
1 media coverage, that there was media coverage of,
Page 233
1 So with regard to that memo, were there any
4 second.
5 Q. Sure.
6 (Reviewing document.)
7 BY THE WITNESS:
17 information to me.
Page 234
1 an American. And issues of Russian criminal
10 A. I noticed that.
13 A. Yes.
24 these facts?
Page 235
1 were separately -- you know, my team and myself
6 BY THE WITNESS:
12 A. No.
Page 236
1 the Carter Page memo came before this conspiracy
18 about.
Page 237
1 ways here. I believe the correct spelling is
2 D-I-V-Y-E-K-I-N.
6 BY MS. SAWYER:
12 A. Yes.
16 A. Right.
20 correct?
21 A. That's my recollection.
Page 238
1 2016/94, the Carter Page memo?
Page 239
1 us know much about and it's really just he's
Page 240
1 that you had done -- you, Fusion -- you, Glenn
4 A. Yes.
7 don't know.
11 still have?
23 A. Yes.
Page 241
1 person who the Russians would attempt to co-opt or
8 somewhat eccentric.
11 about him because he was all over the news for this
22 lightweight.
Page 242
1 course, you know, when we talk about things in the
18 business arrangements.
Page 243
1 398, it does not bear a date on it. Do you recall
3 A. Sometime in midsummer.
14 matter?
21 BY MS. SAWYER:
Page 244
1 I looked at the Russian pension system to determine
Page 245
1 United States for whatever purpose, for some kind
18 A. I don't.
21 Q. Sure.
22 (Reviewing document.)
23 BY THE WITNESS:
Page 246
1 here that we had looked at, but I don't see it in
2 this memo.
8 BY MS. SAWYER:
15 (Reviewing document.)
16 BY THE WITNESS:
Page 247
1 are you talking -- it's a little confusing because
7 clarification.
8 BY MS. SAWYER:
16 campaign?
Page 248
1 atop the FSB and the SVR, the GRU, which are the
13 internal operation.
Page 249
1 would implicate obligations and he's going to
5 understand them.
10 BY MS. SAWYER:
Page 250
1 were things that either did not ring true at the
17 focused --
20 where --
24 of time.
Page 251
1 look in case you have a more focused inquiry too.
5 dossier.
9 5:20.
10 BY MS. SAWYER:
Page 252
1 committee if research that you had been doing on
12 interference.
13 BY THE WITNESS:
24 A. That's correct.
Page 253
1 either then or now that Mr. Steele would have kind
4 A. No.
16 ended?
18 ended.
21 else?
Page 254
1 individuals involved in those meetings. As a
5 Veselnitskaya?
13 A. No.
17 Candidate Trump?
18 A. No.
Page 255
1 engaged by you to do work -- related to the
18 Candidate Trump?
Page 256
1 obligations to that client?
Page 257
1 White House Press Secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders
9 it?
Page 258
1 Russian government and that was in relation to the
3 correct?
7 they did so and the money was not coming from the
8 Russian government.
15 A. No.
21 A. No.
Page 259
1 we don't have a business of -- we're not an
7 friends.
14 A. No.
19 A. No.
22 take a break.
Page 260
1 It's 5:43 p.m.
2 EXAMINATION
3 BY MR. DAVIS:
11 BY THE WITNESS:
Page 261
1 son's junior prom was that night or senior prom and
4 in D.C.?
15 occasion.
17 identification.)
18 BY MR. DAVIS:
Page 262
1 notes about what meeting?
5 BY THE WITNESS:
Page 263
1 way they structured their investments in Russia. I
7 Hermitage's clients.
8 BY MR. DAVIS:
12 Mr. Browder?
16 BY THE WITNESS:
18 Q. Okay.
Page 264
1 with another foreign policy controversy. "Russian
7 act?
8 A. I assume so.
18 activities?
22 terms.
24 BY THE WITNESS:
Page 265
1 worked on, Cyprus, Bill Browder.
6 correct?
7 A. Yes.
11 of super subs.
17 work.
23 BY MR. DAVIS:
Page 266
1 product relating to this investigation?
9 question.
13 investigation?
16 memoranda.
20 BY MR. DAVIS:
23 A. Yes.
Page 267
1 A. I believe I described it before. We do a
6 material.
8 those documents?
9 A. Yes.
13 investigation.
19 your client?
22 BY MR. DAVIS:
Page 268
1 A. To my knowledge, yes.
6 provided to you?
8 version in Exhibit 3?
12 Fusion?
14 BY THE WITNESS:
15 A. No.
17 A. No.
20 sources anonymously?
Page 269
1 the actual source names rather than substituting
2 them?
4 Q. They're what?
14 sources?
16 information.
17 BY MR. DAVIS:
Page 270
1 first memoranda that he created?
3 question.
4 BY THE WITNESS:
8 any point?
10 BY THE WITNESS:
11 A. I don't know.
24 Defendant" --
Page 271
1 Q. Page 4, request 11. It states "Please
6 received."
9 A. No.
19 So they call you and tell you stuff. You know, you
Page 272
1 the memoranda for information?
11 understand it works.
15 someone?
24 Q. That is.
Page 273
1 once Fusion had exhausted public documentary
4 correct?
8 intelligence?
10 speculate.
14 more?
19 lines of inquiry.
22 other?
23 A. I don't know.
Page 274
1 A. Not to my knowledge.
7 BY MR. DAVIS:
9 A. Chris Steele.
12 season?
13 A. Infrequently, intermittently.
25 it?
Page 275
1 MR. SIMPSON: Journalists.
18 not an issue.
24 had found.
Page 276
1 My question was whether or not they knew you were
16 election?
18 please.
Page 277
1 interested in trade, other people are interested in
9 BY MR. DAVIS:
16 A. Relatively recently.
18 A. Yes.
Page 278
1 which you told them that?
4 please.
20 FBI?
22 BY MR. DAVIS:
Page 279
1 A. Not specifically.
18 that.
Page 280
1 MR. FOSTER: I'm not asking him to identify
7 answer.
13 BY MR. DAVIS:
23 BY THE WITNESS:
24 A. That's my recollection.
Page 281
1 not American citizens?
4 BY MR. DAVIS:
6 American citizens?
18 summary?
Page 282
1 and he said yes, it's fine for him to do that.
5 said before?
15 is, go ahead.
23 public reports?
Page 283
1 MR. SIMPSON: I've been asked about this by
11 answer.
19 information?
25 BY MR. DAVIS:
Page 284
1 Q. To the extent you can clarify, is it that
5 changed?
Page 285
1 the question.
3 BY MR. DAVIS:
8 A. Yes.
12 correct?
22 BY MR. DAVIS:
Page 286
1 identity of any clients --
Page 287
1 If you want to discuss the privilege with counsel
Page 288
1 caused his campaign chair to resign. The record is
8 BY MR. DAVIS:
14 BY MR. DAVIS:
17 party?
22 BY MR. DAVIS:
25 information?
Page 289
1 A. No.
12 interview --
14 clients offering --
16 BY MR. DAVIS:
23 Trump engagement?
25 exactly.
Page 290
1 MR. SIMPSON: That's not correct. The
9 election.
14 It's 6:30.
15 EXAMINATION
16 BY MS. SAWYER:
Page 291
1 the factual findings or conclusions influenced in
Page 292
1 we try to avoid getting into situations where one's
Page 293
1 A. Yes. We deal in factual information and
20 was a concern.
Page 294
1 business practices or dishonest business practices
6 in criminal activity.
16 findings.
21 A. Mogilebich.
24 M-O-G-I-L-E-B-I-C-H.
25 A. Yes.
Page 295
1 THE REPORTER: What's the first name?
3 BY MS. SAWYER:
8 Ukraine.
12 have created.
15 agencies?
23 from Kazakhstan?
24 A. Yes.
Page 296
1 you investigated and what you learned.
12 apparently. Allegedly.
Page 297
1 Felix Sater and through Felix Sater to --
8 that project?
12 that work?
16 New York.
19 by Donald Trump?
24 A. Yes.
Page 298
1 A. There were others.
4 discussed.
5 BY THE WITNESS:
14 prostitution.
Page 299
1 standing. Did you reach any conclusions with
8 corporate records.
12 oligarchs?
17 courses?
Page 300
1 MS. SAWYER: To the work on the golf
2 properties.
3 BY THE WITNESS:
20 local government.
Page 301
1 really touched on this at all, but there were also
3 research.
6 that?
9 these were not doing very well and that he'd sunk a
17 general about it, but what was your focus when you
19 familiar with?
Page 302
1 the opposition politician from Ukraine accusing him
13 are of interest.
14 BY MS. SAWYER:
Page 303
1 letter and in particular in request No. 6?
12 BY MS. SAWYER:
Page 304
1 but you're saying whatever information you had was
20 A. Yes.
Page 305
1 any information about those particular reports?
17 data.
24 2016 election?
Page 306
1 connections to the Trump organization and we did an
Page 307
1 organization.
22 of Russian buyers?
Page 308
1 I think that's really all of our questions.
12 Is that correct?
15 interview.
24 interview.
Page 309
1 MR. FOSTER: In some of the questioning in
Page 310
1 from, but, in fact, you're just trying to figure
15 errata.
19 discussed today.
Page 311
1 record.
4 it.
6 review it.
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Page 312
1 CERTIFICATE OF SHORTHAND REPORTER - NOTARY PUBLIC
13 outcome thereof.
16
17
18
19 _____________________________
21
22
23
24
25