Jackson v aeg live June 12

th
2013
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Brandon Randy Phillips(CEO AEGLive)
Cross-examination (resumed) by Mr. Putnam:
Q. Good morning, Mr. Phillips.
A. Good morning, Mr. Putnam.
Q. So I want to pick it up where we left off yesterday, which was the summer of 2008. You
remember, we were talking about, you've been contacted by Mr. Jackson's people, had a meeting
with colony, now we have a meeting with his manager, Dr. Tohme. You remember that?
A. Correct.
Q. So where was that meeting, again, sir?
A. The meeting with Dr. Tohme?
Q. Uh-huh.

A. It was at the Bel Air hotel, in the bar.

Q. And, again, was this the first time you had ever met Dr. Tohme?
A. It is. It was.
Q. Do you remember when this occurred?
A. It was sometime in the summer of 2008, and I'm not clear if it was June, July or august. It was
sometime shortly after I had the meeting at the colony capital offices.
Q. And we had an e-mail that showed the e-mail of colony in mid June of 2008?
A. Yes. The e-mail dated June 18th.
Q. So sometime after that call?
A. Correct.
Q. And who was present at this meeting?
A. Just Dr. Tohme and myself.
Q. You mentioned an individual came in and came out of that meeting?
A. Yes. A. Fellow named Jeff cannon from Beverly hills, who also was introduced to me as Mr.
Jackson's business manager.
Q. Did you have an understanding, when you commenced that meeting, whether or not they had
Prearranged to meet, or was it a chance meeting?
A. No. The way it was presented to me is that Dr. Tohme meets with him pretty regularly to go
over Michael's expenses, and approval of pay expenses. And I think I remember Dr. Tohme
actually Signing some checks. I'm not 100 percent sure about that.
Q. So is it fair to say that you weren't the only person who was asked to come to the Bel Air hotel
for A. Meeting with this Dr. Tohme?
A. No. I have a feeling it's a regular occurrence.
Q. Okay. So you're in this meeting, and approximately how long did this meeting last?
A. About two hours.
Q. And if you can, what was discussed at the meeting?

A. Basically, Dr. Tohme filled me in about Michael's circumstances; his kind of where he was in
his life and career; where he was living; what his financial circumstances were. Things of that
nature. But mostly about what he wanted to do in terms of restarting his career.
Q. Now, you had talked earlier about a meeting where a number of options were discussed.
What options were discussed, if any, at this meeting about restarting Mr. Jackson's career?
A. Well, basically came off of the original proposals that we had made to Raymone Bain and
Peter Lopez in 2007. It was a version of that. Where I explained to Dr. Tohme that we thought
the best place for Michael to start performing again would be in London.
Q. And was the idea of a residency discussed in this meeting with Dr. Tohme?
A. Yes.
Q. And did you have an opinion at that point as to why a residency would be the best option for
Michael Jackson?
A. Well, one, it was easier than doing A. Full-blown tour in terms of travel, living in and out of
hotels, that type of thing. Michael hadn't really toured in so long that we call it touring legs. You
know, like touring legs like a sailor has. And we just felt it would be a controlled circumstance.
It was a market that we thought would be very favorable to him, and also one of the great world
cities where people would come from around the world to come see him.
Q. And when you were discussing the financial situation of Michael Jackson, why was that
relevant to your meeting?
A. Well, Dr. Tohme, I assume, felt it was important to tell me why Michael decided to go back to
Work. And, basically, he had some needs that he wanted to fulfill that took creating revenue for
that.
Q. You mentioned one of those needs yesterday, A. House.
A. Yes.
Q. Do you remember talking about that?
A. Yes.
Q. What did you mean by that?
A. Uhm, Michael well, not just Dr. Tohme, but also Michael, explained to me that one of the
biggest motivations for coming to us about putting together these dates was that he wanted to
earn enough money to buy a house as soon as possible, because for he and his family.

Q. Now, you hadn't met Dr. Tohme before. Can you think back to this first meeting and tell me
what your impressions were?
A. Well, you know, I mean, he you know, he's from another country. He speaks with an accent,
but I understood him, and stuff like that. And he seemed fine to me. Wore a suit and tie. Not that
that's A. Prerequisite, but he seemed okay.
Q. And did you have any concerns about him when you met him at this meeting?
A. No.
Q. And you had talked earlier about the idea that Mr. Jackson didn't seem ready to go back on
tour. From this meeting, did you have any sense as to whether Mr. Jackson was ready to go back
on tour?
A. Only based on what Dr. Tohme was telling me.
Q. Would you characterize the meeting as a positive or negative meeting?
A. It was extremely positive.
Q. And at the end of this meeting, were you optimistic about the chance of perhaps working with
Mr. Jackson again?
A. Yes. And, you know, it was basically me pitching our ideas again, was the bulk of the
meeting.
Q. We talked a little bit about that yesterday, this idea of your going out and pitching when
people Call you in. Was that the type of meeting it was?
A. Correct.
Q. You also talked yesterday about after you had the initial pitch with the artist team, you then
meet with the artist. Did that happen here?
A. It did.
Q. What happened?
A. Approximately and the reason I remember it is because it was Halloween. We had a meeting
at Michael Jackson's suite at the Bel Air hotel, which was on the first floor towards the street,
because there was
A. Gate out to Bellagio or Chalon.
Q. Was that your first meeting with Mr. Jackson after you met with Dr. Tohme?

A. I believe it was the second meeting.

Q. Okay. Let's talk about the first meeting. You talked about the second one.
Do you recall the first one?
A. Yes. It was upstairs. They had a parlor above the suite where he was staying, for meetings,
where he was taking meetings, business meetings, and that's where it took place. And it was
really that was more about discussing the dates, and how we would put them on sale, and things
of that nature. And also who he wanted to work with.
Q. Let me break that down a little bit. First, you said where he was staying. Did you
Have an understanding at this time as to where Mr. Jackson was living?
A. I was told by Dr. Tohme that he was living in Las Vegas at the time.
Q. At this point he's still in Las Vegas. And did you have an understanding as to why you
were meeting him at the Bel Air hotel?
A. Because that's where he was staying while he was in Los Angeles.
Q. And you said where he was taking meetings. Did you have an understanding you weren't the
only meeting he was taking?
A. Correct.
Q. And do you know what other meetings he was taking?
A. No.
Q. Now, you said that there were a number of items that you discussed with Mr. Jackson. We'll
go through some of them. You said "dates" and when you would do "on sale." what did you mean
by that?
A. When he would actually do the dates, relocate to the united kingdom; when we would put the
shows on sale; the possibility of doing a press conference, you know, what we were going to do
to make it a larger-than life event. Because for Michael, everything was about being bigger and
better and larger than anything else before.
Q. Was it just the two of you at the meeting?
A. No. Dr. Tohme was there.
Q. And you said, "who he wanted to work with." what do you mean by that?
A. Band, musicians, Kenny UK, Travis Payne.

Q. So are these all names that came up in the beginning of your discussions with Mr. Jackson?
A. Kenny and Travis did, yes.
Q. And were they people that you that were known to you at the time?
A. No. I mean, just to clarify that, Mr. Putnam, I knew who Kenny UK was by reputation, but I
had never met him or worked with him.
Q. What about Travis Payne?
A. Same thing.
Q. Same thing? And approximately how long was this meeting, if you can remember?
A. It was shorter. It was about 45 minutes or an hour.
Q. And who set up the meeting?
A. Dr. Tohme.
Q. When you finished your first meeting, that meeting you had with Dr. Tohme, was it decided at
that point that you would meet Mr. Jackson, or was it decided sometime later?
A. Dr. Tohme called me after that meeting and said, "Michael would like to see you." and that
was on Halloween.
Q. Oh, I'm sorry. I wasn't talking about the first meeting with Mr. Jackson. I apologize.
After this first meeting with Dr. Tohme
A. Uh-huh.
Q. Where you met him at the Bel Air hotel that lasted about two hours, you said, when was it
decided that you would then meet with Mr. Jackson? Was it in that meeting or sometime after?
A. It was in that meeting.
Q. And that first meeting with Mr. Jackson we just talked about, is that the first meeting you then
had after meeting Dr. Tohme?
A. Correct. Correct. And it was basically an abbreviated version of my meeting with Dr. Tohme
where he wanted me to pitch my ideas and explain my ideas to Michael.
Q. Now, when you say "pitched" your ideas, did you talk about London, the residency in the 02,
then?

A. Yes. And, actually, I should make it clear. They were our ideas, my company's ideas, not all
my ideas.
Q. Well, on that point, you talked earlier that you don't make the sole decision about working
with an artist. How did it come to be that you had this idea as a company, AEG Live, of going to
the 02, doing it in London, and having a residency?
A. Well, when we built the 02 originally and I believe we opened it in 2007. When we did that,
we opened it with a lot of multiple-night shows. Justin Timberlake did six nights, Beyonc did
eight nights. There were strings of those kinds of multiple-night things. And you realize that
London is very unique, almost more so than New York or Chicago, Toronto, in that people love
to go out there. And it's also a transient market, when I say that, similar to Las Vegas, and that
people were the population changes, too, because there are a lot of visitors from the far east,
the mid-east, that type of thing. So we saw it as a vibrant market, and this was such an incredible
building because this building was built for music and entertainment, not for sports. It wasn't a
sports palace. Because, I mean, every time they even tried to start a basketball team in the UK, it
failed, and that type of thing. So it was really geared the business plan for that arena was geared
on music. So, in other words, the suites didn't have any glass separating them from the main
bowl because that affects the sound. The acoustics were spectacular in that arena, and even much
the way staples center is. And I shouldn't say that in public, but it is. So it just seemed like a great
place to do these residencies with the right kind of stars that had that kind of commercial appeal
and drawing power, like a Madonna. People like that. And, of course, Michael Jackson, who
hadn't worked at that point in probably eight to ten years, was an ideal candidate. If he was going
to come back, what a great place to do it in one place. Maybe the only place you could actually
do that.
Q. And when you had this subsequent meeting, then, with Mr. Jackson, the one after Dr. Tohme,
you discussed those aspects, the 02, and the residency, and all of that?
A. That is correct.
Q. And was he receptive to these ideas?
A. Very. Very.
Q. When you say, "very," what do you mean?
A. He was very animated in the meeting. He loved the idea of London. He knew a lot of people
there one of his closest friends, a gentleman named Mark Lester, who was the original Oliver
twist in that movie and is now a chiropractor or something like that. And he just felt comfortable
there; that it would be a great place to do this. So starting with that, he loved that idea, which
made everything else in terms of it, that much easier.

Q. So you thought it was a positive meeting, then?

A. Oh, absolutely.
Q. Now, by the end of that meeting, did you have any sense as to whether Mr. Jackson was
actually interested in starting up his career again?
A. That was the first time first time. You consider 2007, the Raymone Bain, Peter Lopez
meetings, and then that. That was the first time I personally felt that he was ready to go, because
we weren't and the reason for that is, we weren't talking about movies, miniseries, those things.
We actually talked about playing live, and that was really the first time he actually did that with
me.
Q. And how did he seem to be?
A. He seemed great.
Q. Why?
A. Why?
Q. Yeah.
A. I mean, he was dressed well. He had a sports jacket on, his hair looked good, skin was good,
his eyes were clear. It was just a good meeting. He was very engaged in that meeting. And he's
very smart. People there's so many different portraits of him painted by the press and this trial,
and stuff like that, but he's actually a very sophisticated 50-year-old man.
Q. Now, I want to ask you a question about that. I was going to ask you later, but I'll ask you
now.
Different portraits are painted. What do you mean by that?
A. Meaning that part of my well, first of all, the thing about the press, I don't believe anything I
read, especially in the English press, because it's all sensationalism and tabloid journalism. And
my opinions about artists or people I'm going to go into business with are formed by my personal
observances and interaction, not by what I read in the press. So that's one. So I guess you can say
I take a lot of those stories with a grain of salt, which I've learned over the years. The other thing,
and the frustrating thing for me in the trial that made it hard for me, in terms of testifying, is that
we seem to be talking about Michael like he's the five-year-old lead singer of the Jackson 5, and
he wasn't. He was a sophisticated, very smart, articulate 50-year-old man who had control of his
life.
Q. Now, when you say that, you're having A. Reaction to something there. What is the reaction
You're having? Why are you talking about this in this way?

A. Because he's been presented, and I understand why, but he's being presented as a drug-addled
five-year-old, and that is not the man I dealt with.
Q. What is the man you dealt with like?
A. The man I dealt with was forceful, kind but determined, and a force. He was a force.
Q. You answered that twice. What do you mean by "force" and "forceful"?
A. He knew what he wanted. You know, I helped him get an idea of how to come back, and how
to get it started again. But he knew who he wanted to work with, how he wanted to do it and had
all these things he wanted to do, new music he wanted to do, things like that. So I could tell that
he was really active to get back engaged in his career, which, remember, he hadn't really done
anything professionally for many years.
Q. So in this period of time, then, from the summer of 2008 until and I'll represent to you
There's already testimony that a contract was signed in January of 2009. So between that time of
the summer of 2008 and January of 2009, did you is it fair to say you had A. Series of meetings
with Mr. Jackson?
A. Yes.
Q. And did you also have a series of meetings with Dr. Tohme?
A. He was at all the meetings I had with Mr. Jackson, yes.
Q. And in these series of meetings, what were you doing? And just broadly.
A. Well, Paul Gongaware was in some of them. You know, basically, it was letting the laying the
groundwork for when we would start; the size of the production; who would be working. That
kind of thing.
Q. And, again, you discussed these types of meetings generally yesterday. Was there anything a
typical about these meetings, generally, or were you just talking about how you were going to put
this together?
A. Well, the one I was referring to on Halloween was a more personal kind of meeting. It wasn't
a business meeting, per se.
Q. Okay. Talk about that, then, in a second. Let's talk about the business meetings.
A. Uh-huh.
Q. These business meetings, was there anything atypical about what you were doing in this time
period?

A. No.
Q. And in this time period, is that what you're basing your observations on and your observations
of what you thought of Mr. Jackson? Is that where you put together your idea of who Mr.
Jackson was?
A. Correct, because that was my own interaction with him. My own observation.
Q. And did you like him?
A. A lot.
Q. Now, in this period of time, did you come to believe that Mr. Jackson was going to go back on
tour?
A. Yes. Absolutely.
Q. And were you excited about this idea?
A. Of course.
Q. And were all of these meetings at the Bel Air hotel?
A. There were multiple meetings at the Bel Air hotel, and then there was one meeting at this big
mansion on Nimes road in Bel Air.
Q. Whose mansion?
A. It was owned by a gentleman named Mohamed Hadid who went to, ironically, also build the
house we ended up renting, that Michael rented on I forget the street.
Q. Carolwood?
A. Carolwood, yeah.
Q. And so in all of these meetings, did you ever have any concern about Mr. Jackson's health?
A. No.
Q. Did you ever have any concerns that Mr. Jackson might be on drugs?
A. No.
Q. Did you have any concerns in this time about him physically?
A. Not at all.

Q. Was he thin?
A. He was always thin, but he looked healthy.
Q. Now, did you have any sense at this time at all that there was any substance-abuse problem
with Mr. Jackson?
A. Not at all, no.
Q. And did a time come during this time period, when you were having these meetings mostly at
the Bel Air hotel in the summer of 2008 and January of 2009, where Mr. Jackson moved from
Las Vegas to Los Angeles?
A. Yes. When he when Dr. Tohme rented the Carolwood house.
Q. So do you know when that happened?
A. I know it was before we signed the contract, because he was living at that house because
when we had the contract signed, he was living in this house. So it was sometime in December or
January.
Q. Now, ask you a quick question about the residency, and then I'll ask you about this personal
meeting. Was Mr. Jackson receptive to the idea of residency?
A. He loved the idea.
Q. And why do you say that?
A. Because the idea of staying in one place with the kids, as opposed to traveling, he was he told
me he was just "bone weary," were the words he used, of traveling all the time with the kids.
Q. Did you have an understanding as to what that meant?
A. No. I know what the words mean, I just didn't know in his circumstance what he was talking
about.
Q. But he told you then that he wanted to do it as a residency?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, you've now twice referenced, I believe, this idea of a Halloween meeting.
A. Yes.
Q. What are you talking about?

A. There was a meeting. Dr. Tohme called me and said, "Michael would like to meet with you
and discuss the house."
Q. Uh-huh.
A. And we had a meeting at the Bel Air hotel in front of the fireplace. That's why I remember it
so well. It was on Halloween, and it was Michael sitting in a chair with his back to the fireplace,
me, Dr. Tohme was here (indicating). And the reason I know it was Halloween was because the
kids were running in and out, wearing masks. And they were much younger than they are now.
They were little kids.
Q. So you, Dr. Tohme and Michael?
A. Yes.
Q. So what happened at this meeting?
A. At this meeting, Michael it was the first time he really told me why he wanted to go back to
work. And it was a very emotional meeting, because he described his life with the kids as in his
words, he said they were living like vagabonds. And I kind of understood that, because there was
a meeting that I had with him in the 2007 period at Ron Burkle's guest house on green acres in
Beverly Hills, and it was kind of like he was staying at other people's houses, and he wanted his
own house. He wanted to get settled. He wanted the kids to have a permanent place to live, and a
sense of community, he said. And he actually broke down, and I broke down. So we both broke
down.
Q. What do you mean?
A. He was he got emotional. He teared up about his family, and having a good life for them, and
a place to live, and a residence that they could call their own.
Q. And how does that relate to going back to work?
A. Because that was one of the primary reasons he wanted to go back to work. What he had said
to me, and he repeated it during the course of time, he had said that he wanted to go back to
work, because he was still young enough to do it, and his kids were old enough to appreciate
who he was, and who he is, and what he does. And, two, he wanted to make the money to leave
you know, have them set up properly with an estate, things like that, and also to create a real life
for them where they weren't traveling so much.
Q. Did that concern you at all? That this 50-year-old businessman was crying in front of you?

A. Well, yeah. I felt incredibly bad that this incredible star was at this point where he just
couldn't buy a house. With all the money he's made over his career, it made no sense to me. But I
cried, also. And so for me to say it's weird for him, it was weird for me, too. It was just an
emotional meeting, the way he talked about his family.
Q. Did it give you any concern about his mental well-being?
A. No. It wasn't like that. There was nothing abnormal about it. It was emotional, but not
abnormal.
Q. Do you recall anything else from that meeting, sir? The Halloween meeting?
A. Yeah. We talked about this house on Nimes road that he wanted me to go to with him and Dr.
Tohme to see it, which we did, I think, the next day.
Q. So that's you talked about there was A. Meeting you had that wasn't at the Bel Air hotel.
Is that the meeting you're talking about?
A. Yes. Because Michael that night after our meeting, I think he went to Elizabeth Taylors
house for a Halloween party with the kids.
Q. So the next day, you go to this Nimes house road. Where is Nimes?
A. Nimes is at the top of Bel Air where Chalon and I think either Chalon or Bellagio. I always
get lost going through there. But at the top of Bel Air in A. Very, you know, expensive probably
one of the most expensive neighborhoods in Los Angeles.
Q. So you met him there. What was the purpose of this meeting?
A. Was to sit down with him, Dr. Tohme, Mohamed Hadid, and discuss the purchase of this
house. This was the first house that he wanted to buy in Bel Air.
Q. And, ultimately, that's why you met?
A. One of the reasons he wanted to work again was to get the house. We had built some
payments into the tour deal that were geared towards the house.
Q. Got it.
A. And the house is mentioned in the tour agreement
Q. Got it.
A. Specifically. Plus, I'm pretty savvy about Los Angeles real estate, and I think Dr. Tohme told
him that. So that's why he wanted me to come see the house.

Q. All right. And did it come to be that he bought this house?

A. No. No. The house was gigantic. I mean, could have been 40,000 square feet. It was and
Mohamed wanted originally, like, $93 million for the house. And I said to Michael after the
meeting, when we walked outside, I said, "Michael, okay, I mean, even if he came down to $65
million, you know, you got A. Third off, this is crazy. Because, one, you'll put every dime you
make into this house. It doesn't make sense. There are beautiful houses in this town for you that
are private with gates that would have been, you know, 10 to 15 million." so I tried to talk him
out of it, because I thought it was way beyond you know, it made no sense whatsoever.
Q. And the so he ended up not in fact purchasing this home?
A. No. He actually had Dr. Tohme arrange with Mr. Hadid for Michael and Katherine Jackson
and the kids to have thanksgiving there. They had thanksgiving turkey there.
Q. So is this a house someone lived in?
A. I don't know.
Q. Okay.
A. I mean, I think maybe Mr. Hadid was living there at the time, but it was furnished very much
like the house on Carolwood.
Q. Okay. And you said that ultimately Mr. Jackson didn't purchase this house, but this Mr. Hadid
also had the house on Carolwood; is that correct?
A. He had built the house on Carolwood, and I believe Dr. Tohme told me that he had sold it to
the guy who started Ed Hardy's, the clothing line.
Q. Now, do you have an understanding as to how it came to be that Mr. Jackson was living at the
Carolwood house?
A. I guess he, or Dr. Tohme, went and looked at houses, and that was the one they chose.
Q. Did this grow out of the fact that he now had this relationship with Mr. Hadid?
A. I don't know.
Q. All right. So after these meetings, after you had done your pitch, and you had your various
meetings with Mr. Jackson and his manager, did a time come where AEG Live's people stepped
in and started negotiating an actual contract?
A. That is correct.

Q. And did you step in and negotiate the contract?

A. No. No. Once we had the framework of what the deal was going to be, and the fact that we
were going to put up the money for the production, and stuff like that, it was a very simple it
was a 90/10 deal.
Q. And who negotiated that for you for AEG Live?
A. It was Kathy Jorrie with Shawn Trell.
Q. And did you have an understanding as to who negotiated for Mr. Jackson?
A. At the time, my understanding was Dennis Hawk and Peter Lopez and Dr. Tohme.
Q. And just to repeat, Dennis Hawk is a lawyer, Peter Lopez is a lawyer, and Dr. Tohme at that
point in time was his manager?
A. That's correct.
Q. And you said it was a typical 90/10 deal. Would you tell us again what a 90/10 deal is?
A. What that is, when the artist goes on the road, the artist gets 90 percent of what we call this is
going to sound confusing the net gross, meaning what they take out of an arena at the end of the
night. After they pay expenses for security, advertising, stuff like that, we then split it 90/10. 90
percent goes to the artist, 10 percent goes to the promoter.
Q. So 90 percent of that was going to go to Mr. Jackson?
A. Correct.
Q. And 10 percent of that would go to AEG Live?
A. AEG Live, correct.
Q. And ultimately, do you have an understanding as to, was that the deal that was actually
struck? 90 percent to Mr. Jackson, and 10 percent to AEG Live?
A. That was the deal that was struck. There was an additional part of that. Because we were also
producing, we were earning, for laying out the money for the production and actually doing the
physical production, we received 5 percent of his net.
Q. As a payment?
A. As a producer's fee.

Q. So going from there were these negotiations between his people and your people. Were you
involved in those negotiations?
A. Not after we set the initial parameters for it, no.
Q. And do you have any understanding as to who drafted the contract?
A. No.
Q. Do you have any understanding as to whether drafts went back and forth?
A. Drafts did go back and forth. I would assume, just to clarify and I know I shouldn't assume
on A. stand that we might have initiated the draft, the initial form.
Q. But beyond that, you're not sure how the process was back and forth?
A. No.
Q. Then I won't ask you about it. In terms of but ultimately, there was a Contract, and a contract
was signed; correct?
A. Correct.
Q. And do you remember what month that happened in?
A. In January of 2009.
Q. And do you have any understanding as to whether it was signed on January 26th or January
28th?
A. It was dated the 26th; it was signed on the 28th.
Q. Do you know if it makes any difference what day it was signed?
A. No. None whatsoever.
Q. Were there any ramifications you're aware of, of whether it was signed on the 26th of January
or the 28th of January?
A. No. It makes no difference.
Q. All right. Now, were you aware of whether or not your deal with the contract included
advances to Mr. Jackson?
A. Yes.

Q. And what is your understanding of what those advances were?

A. My understanding and I believe we may have given him an advance prior to even execution
of the contract, because he had to settle the Bahrainian lawsuit, or else he couldn't enter into the
agreement with us. We advanced him $5 million, which, my understanding is 3 million went to
the settlement in London with the Bahrain lawsuit, because they were about to go to trial, so it
was a pretrial settlement. And the other 2 million went to his living expenses.
Q. And is this what is called an artist's advance?
A. Correct.
Q. So it's different than the advances you're giving for production; correct?
A. That is correct.
Q. All right. So $5 million is the total amount that you understand was provided as an artist
advance to Mr. Jackson?
A. At that point in time, yes.
Q. And you said 3 million of it was for the Bahrain lawsuit. What are you talking about?
A. Well, I'm not 100 percent sure what I'm talking about because I wasn't involved in this.
Q. Okay. Only tell me what you know.
A. Okay. Michael Jackson, when he was living in Bahrain and I was told he left and went there
right after the trial.
Mr. Panish: your honor, I would object. This witness has no foundation. There's been no
foundation laid as to his knowledge of any of this.
Judge: sustained.
Q. All right. The there were monies that were advanced to Mr. Jackson by your company of $3
million; correct?
A. Correct.
Q. And were you told in any measure as to what that $3 million advance was for?
A. Yes.

Q. And what were you told?

A. I was told
Mr. Panish: well, first of all, it's hearsay.
Mr. Putnam: not offering it for the truth of the matter asserted; asking why they gave him
$3
Million.
Mr. Panish: that is for the truth.
Judge: I think he already said, to settle the lawsuit.
Mr. Panish: he doesn't know anything about it.
Judge: leave it at that.
Mr. Putnam: can I ask one question, and you can decide whether he can answer it?
Judge: all right.
Q. why would you give him a $3 million advance to settle a lawsuit?
Judge: you may answer.
A. Because he in the contract with the Bahrainians, the rights, his touring rights, music rights,
were given in consideration for that contract, so he could not enter into a contract with us unless
he settled that suit first.
Mr. Panish: I'm going to object. He has no foundation for this witness to say that.
Judge: okay. Sustained.
Mr. Putnam: your honor, I'm asking what his understanding is, why they gave him $3
million.
Mr. Panish: there's no foundation.
Q. what is your understanding based on, sir?
A. Based on what Dr. Tohme told me the money was for, and also Shawn Trell.

Q. And it's your understanding that

Mr. Panish: I would object.
Q. Dr. Tohme was Michael Jackson's agent?
Judge: hold on.
Mr. Panish: still based on hearsay, no foundation of this witness.
Judge: Tohme told him?
Mr. Panish: well
Judge: Michael Jackson's agent. Overruled.
Mr. Putnam: thank you, your honor.
A.: okay. Michael Jackson's manager, not his agent.
Judge: technically, you're correct.
Q. I understand, legally.
A. I understand.
Q. It's okay. And so you needed to provide that money, otherwise you couldn't have an agreement
with him for A. Tour?
A. That is correct.
Q. So that's 3 million. And then there was this additional $2 million. Did you have an
understanding as to what that $2 million was for?
A. No. It was for him, but I don't know what it was for.
Q. Well, you're giving him $2 million. Don't you want to know what he's spending it on?
A. Not my business.
Q. Why is it not your business?

A. Because I was making a deal with him; all right? And it's an arm's length transaction, and
what he does with his money is not my it's not my concern, what he does with his personal
funds.
Q. Now, why was the 3 million your concern?
A. Because we could not enter into a contract unless that was settled.
Q. And why was the 2 million not your concern?
A. Because that was going to him as part of the contract.
Q. Did he tell you how he was going to spend it?
A. No.
Q. Did you ever ask him how he was going to spend it?
A. No.
Q. Now, $5 million seems like a lot of money to me. Is this a big advance for an artist?
A. It's a it's in the mid range. It's a decent advance.
Q. Is this in the mid range?
A. Yeah. We've given more; we've given less.
Q. What is the largest advance AEG Live ever issued to an artist?
A. To the best of my knowledge, 25 million.
Q. Okay. So this was only a fifth of the largest?
A. Right. But you have to understand, that was for a tour where we weren't paying for the
production, so the artist was going to use that money to do his own production.
Q. Got it. Now, when you provide such an advance, an artist advance, is this something that AEG
Live generally recoups?
A. Yes. Hopefully, yes.
Q. And how does that occur?

A. That occurs by playing off the dates of the contract. As we play the dates, money is generated.
We get to recoup our advances, and then we go into the 90/10 split with the artist. Or the 85/15,
depending on what the deal is.
Q. So part of the deal signed sometime in late January of 2009, so we're in 2009, you understood
that there were these things called artist advances, which were $5 million. You also mentioned
that a house was included. Did AEG Live pay for Mr. Jackson's home on Carolwood? So you
talked as part of that agreement, that there were these artist advances. Were you aware of whether
the agreement also included advancing monies for Mr. Jackson's housing?
A. Well, I know the agreement called for us to, I think, guaranty the lease on a house the house
on Carolwood that he was going to be living in.
Q. And that was the house we just talked about. Is that the house he ultimately lived in?
A. While he was in Los Angeles, yes.
Q. And are you aware of whether AEG Live then advanced the monies for the rent on that house?
A. I'm not clear if we advanced or just guaranteed the lease. I know he was moved and living
there prior to the signing of the contract.
Q. So you just don't know, yourself?
A. I don't know.
Q. Do you know, did AEG Live you said that Mr. Jackson became aware of the fact that you
know a fair amount about Los Angeles real estate. Did you have any involvement in securing
him in the Carolwood home?
A. None whatsoever.
Q. Did AEG Live have any involvement in securing the Carolwood home?
A. None whatsoever.
Q. Do you have an understanding as to who secured the home for Mr. Jackson?
A. I believe yeah. I was told it was Dr. Tohme.
Q. Now, you signed the agreement. Were you present when the agreement with Mr. Jackson was
signed?
A. The tour agreement, you're talking about? Yes.

Q. Sorry.
A. Yes.
Q. I take it you weren't there for the agreement for the Carolwood home?
A. When he signed the lease? No. I don't even know who signed the lease.
Q. Okay. So talking about the Carolwood home I'm sorry. Strike that. I'm talking about the tour
agreement with Mr. Jackson. This is late January 2009. Were you present when this was signed?
A. Yes.
Q. And where did that take place, sir?
A. It took place in the living room of the Carolwood house.
Q. And do you remember who was present?
A. Yes.
Q. Who was present, sir?
A. It was Michael Jackson, Paul Gongaware, Shawn Trell, Dr. Tohme, Dennis Hawk, Peter
Lopez and me.
Q. So some folks from AEG Live, and some folks from Mr. Jackson's camp; is that correct?
A. That is correct.
Q. Any press?
A. No.
Q. Was there any press release?
A. No.
Q. Why is that?
A. Because we wanted to save the impact for the press conference. We wanted maximum impact
on the press conference.
Q. And at this point in time, do you recall whether you had discussed the idea of a press
conference with Mr. Jackson?

A. I discussed it with Dr. Tohme. We had discussed it earlier initially in one of those Bel Air
Meetings about doing a press conference, and, you know, where to do it, Piccadilly. There were a
lot of ideas going back and forth between Michael, Dr. Tohme and myself. But at the signing, we
didn't discuss the press conference.
Q. Got it. So at the signing, did you sign the agreement?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. And did Mr. Jackson sign the agreement?
A. Yes, he did.
Q. Did you literally sign it in the room together?
A. We did.
Mr. Putnam: Pam, could I have exhibit 6614? It's already in evidence and already been shown.
This is both the first and last page of this agreement (indicating). While you're looking at this,
Let me ask a question. You see the signature line for AEG Live?
A. Yes.
Q. And whose signature is that?
A. That's mine.
Q. And then below that, it says: "we have read the above and agree to the terms." on one side, it
says, "the Michael Jackson company, llc," and "Michael Jackson"; and on the other side, it says,
"Michael Jackson, Michael Jackson"?
A. Correct.
Q. Do you know whose signature that is?
A. That is Michael Jackson's signature. I witnessed him signing it.
Q. And do you know what the Michael Jackson Company is?
A. I assume that's his professional company that he does business through.
Q. You don't know, yourself?
A. No.

Q. Going from there, the how long did this meeting last?
A. The signing?
Q. Yes.
A. Probably an hour to an hour and a half.
Q. Why was it so long, if you were just signing?
A. Well, because, we someone brought champagne. It was celebratory. Michael and I hugged
each other after we signed the agreement. It was that kind of A. Meeting.
Q. Did you discuss business at all?
A. No.
Q. So it was
A. No, I shouldn't say that. Michael asked either Peter Lopez or Dennis Hawk, I'm not sure
which one, or both asked them a couple questions about the agreement.
Q. Make sure I understand it. So his lawyers asked him some questions about the agreement?
A. No. He asked his lawyers.
Q. Thank you. Do you remember what those questions were?
A. I remember one of them was about what our commitment was to the movie in the contract.
Q. And any other questions you can recall?
A. How many shows. They told him 31.
Q. Let me ask you something. So he was aware that the number of shows in the contract was 31,
then?
A. Correct.
Q. And why was the number of shows in the contract 31?
A. Well, and that's the reason why he asked, because he came up with the number. We didn't.
Prince, prior to this, had done a residency at the 02 and was very heralded. It was 21 shows, and
no one had done that many shows in an arena in one city before. And Michael and prince were
incredibly competitive, and he wanted to beat prince's record by enough that prince could never

beat it again, you know. So he would be in the Guinness book of world records, and that kind of
thing.
Q. So that was Michael Jackson's idea?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay.
A. I mean, obviously we would have come up with 30 shows, not 31.
Q. And all right. And he specifically asked that question, then, of his attorneys at that meeting?
A. That was yes. Those are the two I remember. There may have been a couple of other
questions.
Q. You said it was celebratory?
A. Yes.
Q. I wanted to ask you the tone of the meeting. So was the entire thing celebratory?
A. Yes.
Q. Did Mr. Jackson seem excited about the prospect of going back to work?
A. Well, it's the first time he had hugged me, so I assume, yes. Yes.
Q. And were you excited?
A. Incredibly.
Q. Why?
A. Because he's one of the biggest stars in the world, if not the biggest star in the world, and the
idea of helping him come back, you know, and get on the stage again was you know, to me it
was one of the great parts of my career. If this show had happened, it would have been one of the
greatest things in my career.
Q. And he seemed excited, you said. How did he seem to you physically?
A. Fine.
Q. Did he seem in some way under the influence in this meeting?

A. Not at all.
Q. I mean, it was a celebration. Did he have a Drink?
A. I don't think he drank. I think he held up the glass, but I don't think he drank.
Q. Did he seem under the influence in any way in the meeting?
A. No.
Q. Did he seem like he was taking drugs in any way?
A. No.
Q. Was his speech slurred?
A. Not at all.
Q. Was he unfocused?
A. No. Quite the opposite.
Q. Did he seem unhealthy at all?
A. Not at all.
Q. A little question about something you just said. You said that prince had done this 21-show
residency at the 02. Who produced and promoted that show?
A. AEG Live.
Q. And did the producing I'm sorry the production and promotion of that show have any
influence on how you put together Mr. Jackson's show?
A. Paul Gongaware could answer that better than me, but I'm sure it did.
Q. All right. So let's go down to the end of that meeting. How did it end?
A. It ended with a toast, you know, and kind of everyone high-fiving, and we left. Everyone left.
Q. Now, you mentioned a press conference. At some time after this, was there a press
announcement to the world that Mr. Jackson was returning to the world stage?

A. Well, we thought that the best way to do this, to announce this, was to actually do a press
conference where Michael Jackson appeared. I would say probably seven out of ten tours are just
announced via press release, and then they're covered in the press and picked up in the wording.
In this case, because Michael had been gone so long, and there was this kind of sort of credibility
issue as to whether he would actually perform again and be serious about doing that, we thought
the best way to dispel any of these issues, was for him to appear in a Press conference
announcing the dates.
Q. Let me have you explain that. What do you mean by "credibility issue"?
A. Well, over the years well, first of all, it had been a long time since Michael had performed at
all. And that alone would, you know, create, you know, kind of consumer concerns as to whether
it's real, and he's going to do it. And then Michael had had a series of cancellations, and things
like that, over the course of his tours. And that's basically it. Plus, it was a Very that was a very
tough period for him. That period in the 2000s.
Q. So it was a tough period in the 2000s, he hadn't toured in a long time, and there were
cancellations. That combination you thought created a Credibility problem?
A. Yes.
Q. You said "with consumers." what do you mean?
A. Meaning, one of the things, when you're asking somebody one of the hardest things in our
business is to create the demand for tickets. Because if you think about it, we do not, as an
industry, make it easy for people, for fans and consumers, to buy tickets. Between tickets
surcharges, getting online the way you have to buy tickets now, brokers, all of those things, plus
you have to generally, depending on the demographic, hire a Babysitter, go out to dinner. It's an
expensive proposition to go out for the night to go to a concert. So in order to create the demand,
that's one of the most difficult things you can do. So when your consumer doesn't isn't sure,
And they have a certain amount of disposable income to spend you know, revenue and they're
not sure if something's real, they hesitate. And the idea was to remove that hesitation.
Q. Why would Mr. Jackson being at a press conference remove that hesitation?
A. Because it created electricity and excitement, and the demand was there was a place for the
demand, that consumer demand to be fulfilled. And after they saw him, they saw that he was
committed to do it. This wasn't just a bunch of suits putting out a press release.
Q. You're the suit?
A. For this trial I'm in a suit, yes.
Q. Now, this consumer confidence idea, were you worried about that as well?

A. Not really.
Q. Why?
A. I just my gut. I just knew that people wanted to see him perform again and that the demand
was going to be gigantic. I just felt it. One of those things. I make those gut decisions all the
time.
That's what I do.
Q. So you decided to have a press conference for the credibility issue. You said you'd do it in
conjunction with Dr. Tohme. Did you discuss the press conference at all with Mr. Jackson?
A. Yes.
Q. What did you discuss with Mr. Jackson?
A. Just that he wanted it to be something very special and unique and big. The word is "big."
Q. Why do you keep using the word "big"?
A. Because he does.
Q. Okay. Now, this was how was it determined to have this press conference in London?
A. Well, that was where the shows were going to be
Q. Uh-huh.
A. So that seemed like the logical place to have the press conference.
Q. Can you remember when the press conference occurred?
A. March 5th, 2009.
Q. And by this point, had it been determined that the tour was going to be called the "This Is It"
tour?
A. Michael had named it the "This Is It" tour, yes.
Q. And did he explain to you why he was calling it the "This Is It" tour?
A. Yes. First of all, I thought it was part of his brilliance, okay
Q. Uh-huh.

A. Because Paul and I scratched our heads, trying to figure out we had a list of potential titles
for the residency, because it wasn't a tour. But Michael came up with the idea. And he said,
"we're going to call it 'This Is It.'" this was at a meeting at his house. And I said, "why 'This Is
It'?" And he said, "because this is the last time I'm going to do this. And, also, there's a double
entendre that when I'm on that stage, this is the place in the world to be." so that's how we got
"This Is It."
Q. And you're going to have this big press conference on march 5th, 2009, in London. And Mr.
Jackson agreed to go to that press conference?
A. No, we would never have scheduled it if he didn't.
Q. I'd like to show you a document, if I can. It was a document you were asked about by Mr.
Panish. And it's let me get it for you, please. Exhibit 638-90 through 92. It's a 3-page
Document and a series of e-mails. You know the drill (indicating).
A. I know the drill. (reviewing document.)
Q. If I could, I'd like you to take a moment to look at the document. You'll see, as I noted, it's a 3-
page document. It's a series of e-mails, and the first e-mail begins on the second page, runs to the
third. And then, like is often the case, you read them in reverse order of pages through the
chronology.
A. Yes.
Q. Do you remember being asked a series of questions about this, sir?
A. Yes, I do.
Q. Let me go look at the e-mails before I ask you the question. If you go to the first one, you'll
see that it says it's from Amy Morrison to Rob Hallett and Svetlana Scheck? A Svetlana Scheck.
Q. Thank you. And it cc'd you, Paul Gongaware, Joyce
A. Szudzik.
Q. Thank you. And
A. Gord Berg.
Q. Gord Berg. Who is Amy Morrison?
A. Amy Morrison is AEG Live's chief marketing officer known as CMO
Q. And what does a marketing officer do?

A. They put together the campaign, the advertising. They buy the advertising. They do the
collateral, meaning the artwork, all of that stuff, and buy the radio spots, the TV spots. That kind
of thing.
Q. And was Ms. Morrison involved, then, in the promotion for the "This Is It" tour?
A. Yes, she was.
Q. And Rob Hallett, he's your guy in the UK?
A. Yes. Rob Hallett is president of international of AEG Live, and he's based in London.
Q. Who is Ms. Scheck?
A. She's the marketing officer in London.
Q. Now, I'm not going to try to go through everything. I'm going to ask you about things you
weren't asked about. In the beginning of this, it says: "Michael has the revised print creative
(attached), and we should have word back in the morning on approvals." you see that?
A. Yes.
Q. I understand the date is February 26th, 2009?
A. Correct.
Q. So that's a little I guess it's almost It's exactly a week before the press conference?
A. Correct.
Q. And "print creative." do you have an understanding as to what that is?
A. Yes.
Q. What is that, sir?
A. That's the print advertising. It's the image that we were going to use for "This Is It." it's the
famous red image of him that was created for this.
Q. And it says, "Michael has that." do you have an understanding of who "Michael" is here?
A. Michael Jackson.
Q. So did Mr. Jackson actually get drafts or versions of the promotions before they were sent
out?

A. Of course.
Q. Why do you say, "of course"?
A. Because he was heavily involved in the creation of the campaign.
Q. So it says here "he has that, and it should be back the following day." you see that?
A. Yes.
Q. And then there's a response from you above, also, on the 26th of February. And it says: "we
do not need the concerts west logo. This is high profile and shouldn't be confusing. Just use
the AEG Live logo." you see that?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you recall what you meant by this?
A. Yes. When we bought John Meglen and Paul Gongaware's company, it was called Concerts
West. And sometimes we use because we own the brand, sometimes we used it for certain tours,
and things like that. In this case, Tim Leiweke had asked me to just use the AEG Live logo
because they were eventually planning on starting a ticketing company, and they didn't know
what they were going to call it. They actually ended up calling it Axs ticketing. But at the time,
they were going to use the AEG Live brand, and in such a big, huge worldwide press as this, he
wanted to use that brand.
Q. So he asked for your help with this?
A. He told me.
Q. Okay. And so that's what you're saying there in terms of concerts west. Now, then, Mr.
Gongaware responds; is that correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And, you know, he says that's bs. And I can say what he said. He said, "bullshit"?
A. Yes.
Q. And then he goes on to talk about, you know, protecting his logo, right, the one that he had
created more than a decade before, the concerts west brand; is that correct?
A. Correct.

Q. All right. So he comes in to you, just to you at this point, and he says, "I want to protect my
brand"; no?
A. Correct.
Q. All right. And now we get to the point you were asked about. And the next one is from you?
A. Yes.
Q. It's on February 27th, the next day. And it is to and it says: "I would worry less about a
Bullshit logo that has no relevance to the consumer and a lot more about the fact that MJ has
not spoken to Dr. Tohme in a week and may not get on that plane Monday night, nor has he
approved the marketing collateral." you see that?
A. Yes.
Q. Goes on to talk about a number of other things. And then goes on to say at the end: "I am
much more concerned that MJ may try to breach our agreement and leave us with a mess on
our hands." right?
A. Yes.
Q. Now that I've shown you these other e-mails, let me ask you a question: do you have an
understanding of what it means to say that he has not approved the marketing collateral?
A. Yes. Meaning, we would normally not run with something that would end up being having
public dissemination unless the artist or an artist representative has signed off on it and approved
that.
Q. And then before that, it says: MJj has not spoken to Dr. Tohme in a week and may not get
on that plane Monday night." do you recall, as you sit here today, what you meant by that?
A. Yes.
Q. And what is that, sir?
A. What I meant?
Q. Yes, please.
A. What I meant is that, at that period of time, there was a kind of breakdown in Michael's
relationship with Dr. Tohme over an auction that Dr. Tohme had set up, presumably, according to
Dr. Tohme, that Michael had approved it, but had set up with Julien's auctions to get rid of a ton
of memorabilia and stuff that Michael Jackson had stored in warehouses, because I was told he
was paying 200 grand a month for warehouses. So he arranged this auction to get some value out
of this stuff.

Q. So there was a problem between Mr. Jackson and his manager, and that's what you're
referencing there as to why they're not speaking?
A. Correct.
Q. And when you say, "may not get on that plane Monday," who are you talking about?
A. Michael.
Q. And when you then go to the bottom and say: "I am much more concerned that MJ may try
to breach our agreement and leave us with a mess on our hands." you're saying that's a greater
concern for you rather than the concerts west logo?
A. Correct.
Q. Okay. And let me ask you about that. It's A. Week before the press conference. Were you
concerned that Mr. Jackson might breach your agreement?
A. I was concerned, because I hadn't had Dr. Tohme had no communication with him. My only
way of dealing with Michael was through Dr. Tohme.
Mr. Panish: well, your honor, move to strike. It's nonresponsive to the question, whether he
was concerned he would breach the agreement or not.
Judge: sustained.
Q. Let me ask it to you differently, then.
A. Okay.
Q. What was your concern at this period of time?
A. My concern at this period of time is that I had no direct connection to Michael Jackson
through his manager, who would have been the one who would have arranged for him to travel
to London to do the press conference.
Q. And so at this point in time, how would you reach Mr. Jackson?
A. I would call Dr. Tohme.
Q. And would he then put you on the line with Mr. Jackson?

A. Generally, not. Generally, he would we would have our conversation, and then he would meet
with or discuss with Michael, and then he would get back to me with answers. That's how the
process worked.
Q. Okay. And at this point, if they're not communicating, did that mean you were unable to get to
Mr. Jackson?
A. That's correct.
Q. And did that have any bearing on your determination on why you then wrote you thought
there might be, therefore, a "breach of the agreement"?
A. Well, that's why I wrote that, because at this point in time I was flying it's a term, an
expression, I was flying blind, because I didn't know what was happening in Michael's camp.
Q. Now, let me go to the response from Mr. Gongaware, then. Very colorful terms, he lets you
know his head is still very much in this. Says, "every detail." and then the second paragraph, he
says: "we are holding all the risk" strike that. It says: "meantime, our play here is not to back
off. We are holding all the risk. If MJ won't approve it, we go without his approval." let me ask
about that, first. "we don't back off." back off on what?
A. Meaning, we continue to go ahead and put the tickets on sale, regardless of whether there's a
press conference or not.
Q. So at that point in time, you're talking about, are we going to have a press conference in a
week or not? And you understood him to be saying, regardless of the press conference, we would
put the tickets on sale?
A. Correct.
Q. So even if you can't reach him, you put the tickets on sale?
A. Yeah, because usually you need a certain amount of time to sell tickets.
Q. The next part goes on to say: "we're holding all the risk." meaning the risk right now is
being held by AEG Live, not Mr. Jackson; correct?
A. That is correct.
Q. And then it goes on to say: "if MJ won't approve it, we go without his approval." on what?
A. The on collateral, the marketing collateral.
Q. So in other words, you're going to put that ticket out, even if he hasn't approved what the
ticket looks like?

A. Correct.
Q. And then it says: "if Tohme isn't on the plane, it goes without him. My money is on Dr.
Tohme." do you understand what he meant about that?
A. Right. That is, if Michael is no longer talking to Dr. Tohme, or whatever their relationship is
at that point, then Michael could still get on the plane and do the press conference.
Q. So this is what you just didn't know; correct?
A. Correct.
Q. And you didn't know whether he was going to be on the plane, off the plane, whether there's
going to be a press conference. You don't know because you can't reach Mr. Jackson?
A. That is correct.
Q. And one week before the press conference?
A. Correct.
Q. Was this frustrating to you in any way?
A. Well, if you read the tone of the if you read the actual e-mails, and the tone of the e-mails, I
was more concerned about that than whether the concerts west logo was in the ad or not. And I
was annoyed at Paul for worrying about the concerts west logo and not worrying about whether
this thing was going to proceed. But Paul always had this feeling that no matter what, it was
going to happen. I was never as sanquine as him.
Q. And did you have an understanding as to why Mr. Gongaware always had the belief that this
was going to happen?
A. From his experience working with Michael.
Q. And you had had one experience working with Mr. Jackson previously; is that correct?
A. That is correct.
Q. What was your one experience working with Mr. Jackson previously?
A. That was helping secure as a consultant to him the deal with the sneaker company, LAGear.
Q. And had that been a financial success for LAGear?
A. No. It was a financial disaster for LAGear;

A. Financial success for Michael.

Q. That was your one experience working with Mr. Jackson; is that correct?
A. Correct.
Q. But Mr. Gongaware had worked with him on A. Couple of tours; right?
A. That is correct.
Q. So this idea here that AEG Live is holding all the risk, let me ask you: if Mr. Jackson at this
point in time, it's late February 2009, there hasn't yet been a press conference
A. Correct.
Q. But you have advanced monies
A. Correct.
Q. Those artist advances, if Michael Jackson had decided at this point in time, you know what, I
can't do this. I can't go forward for whatever reason, I don't want to, whatever it is.
A. Uh-huh.
Q. If that had happened, sir, would that have financially hurt AEG Live?
A. Not really.
Q. Okay. And when you say "not really," what do you mean?
A. Well, at that point, we had only put out the $5 million. We hadn't spent any of the production
money or anything like that. We just put out $5 million advance, and whatever we had done with
the house. But we hasn't spent any more money than that, appreciably any more money than that
at that point. So if there was ever a time to stop the process, it would have been up until well,
actually, could have done it even through the press conference or after the press conference.
That's when we had the least amount of risk and the greatest amount of collateral.
Q. The world didn't know you were doing this tour; right?
A. No.
Q. There had been no public announcement that it was taking place?
A. No.
Q. The it had been a month since you signed the contract?

A. Pretty much, yes.

Q. Had any of the production elements started coming into play? Did you start buying all these
things and doing all this stuff Mr. Gongaware talks about?
A. No.
Q. So what we're talking about right now is whether or not a press release is going to happen in
A. Week, and whether you have final approval on what the tickets would look like?
A. Press conference, not press release. Press conference.
Q. Thank you. Is that correct?
A. That is correct.
Q. And you had the advance of $5 million plus, perhaps, whatever monies you had agreed to
guaranty in terms of the rental; is that right?
A. That's correct. And there might have been some other expenses, you know. Paul flying to
London, or stuff like that. But nothing substantial. I shouldn't say it's not substantial. It's always
substantial. But not in the scheme of things, it wasn't substantial.
Q. When you say, "in the scheme of things," remind us, how many shows have you put on?
A. 6,000 or so.
Q. Some of them get canceled?
A. Some of them get canceled.
Q. Some of the tours end?
A. Yes.
Q. End before they're supposed to end?
A. Yes.
Q. Do some of those tours, you plan them, and suddenly they don't take place?
A. Yes.
Q. Is that part of the risk of being in the concert business?

A. It is.
Q. Beyond the fact that you couldn't reach the artist, was there anything about this that was
particularly abnormal in late February of 2009?
A. Well, to me, that was the most important thing because I just didn't know what was going on.
Q. And at the same time, when you just don't know what's going on, at this point in time, late
February 2009, did you have any concern about Mr. Jackson's health?
A. No.
Q. Did you have any concern now, late 2009, that because of this rift or problem he was having
with his manager, that there might be a problem with Mr. Jackson?
A. No.
Q. Was it odd to you that he was having a dispute with a manager?
A. No.
Q. And why wasn't it odd to you that he was having a dispute with a manager?
A. Because he frequently had disputes with his representatives and changed them and did things
like that, so
Q. And at this point had you had any belief that Mr. Jackson had a problem with prescription
drugs?
A. No.
Q. Any drugs?
A. No.
Q. And what about his weight? Were you worried about his weight at this time?
A. No.
Q. Did you have any understanding through this series of e-mails that it had anything to do with
Mr. Jackson's weight?
A. No.

Q. I'd like to show you another e-mail, if I can. And this is one that you wrote on March 8th.
Well, strike that. Before I show it to you, I have to ask you a question. Did it come to be that Dr.
Tohme got on a plane and went to the UK?
A. Yes.
Q. And did it come to be that Mr. Jackson got on that very same plane and went to the UK?
A. Yes.
Q. And did the press conference end up going as scheduled?
A. Well, it was on the same day.
Q. Okay. So it was on March 5th, 2009?
A. Right.
Q. Correct, sir?
A. Yes. Q. All right. So is it fair to say that at some point between these e-mails and March 5th,
2009, you got in touch with either Mr. Jackson or his representatives?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, I want to show you an e-mail, then, sir, that you were also asked about. And this is one
that was three days after the press conference. And this is exhibit 665-0017. You were shown this
already and asked questions about it. (indicating.)
Mr. Putnam: for the record, 1-page document, A. Couple of e-mails exchanged. And, again, 665-
117. I apologize. I had the wrong one.
Mr. Panish: well, I think the one up there is the right one.
Mr. Putnam: yeah, I know.
Mr. Panish: but I think it's just -17.
Mr. Putnam: -17. Thank you. It's my fault. I do apologize, your honor. May I approach
again, your honor, so you get the right one?
Judge: yes. You want this one back?
Mr. Putnam: no, unless you want to give
Mr. Panish: get to it later.

Mr. Putnam: that's correct. Sorry about that.

Q. it still is a 1-page document, still is a series of e-mails, and still something you were asked
questions about. And these are e-mails between you and a man named Jim Morey. You remember
being asked about those e-mails, sir?
A. Yes, I do.
Q. And would you remind us, please, first, who is Jim Morey?
A. Jim Morey was Michael Jackson's manager, with his partner, a gentleman named Sandy
Gallin.
Q. So this is a man who at some point in time previously had been one of the managers Mr.
Jackson had had during the course of his career?
A. That is correct.
Q. And we have established, have we not, that there are a series of people that have been his
manager; right?
A. Yes.
Q. And some come in and some come out during the course of time?
A. Yes.
Q. And this is one of those people?
A. That is correct.
Q. And so this is three days after the press conference, march 8th, 2009. And the first e-mail is
from Jim Morey, his former manager, and it's to you, Randy Phillips, and the subject is "MJ." did
you have an understanding or belief as to what that must mean?
A. Yes.
Q. And he goes on and says: "should I assume that there is nothing I can do to assist with your
MJ adventure?"
A. Right.
Q. And then talks about something else. "we are anxious to get the Miley offer finalized so a
decision can be made. Her single is on fire. Fun time for us. Cheers."

A. Yes. He was also Miley Cyrus's manager at the time.

Q. So the second part, he's talking about the fact that what he's doing for his client, Miley
Cyrus?
A. Yes. We were the promoters of the tour.
Q. All right. So you were working for him on A. Tour for Miley Cyrus at the time?
A. That is correct.
Q. And he also indicates or asks if there was something he can do to help you; correct?
A. Correct.
Q. Let's go to the line above that. You then respond, and this is what you were asked about. Says:
"MJ was not speaking to Dr. Tohme because of this stupid auction he set up that MJ never agreed
to until the day they left for London on the gulfstream I chartered." can you explain to us what
that means?
A. Yes. This is what I testified before. Michael and Dr. Tohme had a dispute with each other over
this Darren Julien, who was the auctioneer, over the auction of this memorabilia, and that created
A. Rift in their relationship.
Q. And now that we've shown you the series of e-mails and put it into time, can you tell me what
you meant by: "the fact that the press conference even happened is a Miracle, let alone getting
through the unprecedented demand for shows that has caught us off guard."
A. Okay. Well, it was two-fold. My concern that it happened was a miracle. One thing was, I
wasn't sure that they were ever going to get on the plane to come to London to do the press
conference, because right up until they did, I was unsure. And then, what we went through to get
Michael to the press conference when we were in London that day on March 5th.
Q. And I'm going to get there right now, but I want to so when you say it's a miracle that this
happened, was it a miracle because you signed Michael Jackson?
A. No, no, no.
Q. Is there some miracle, other than the one you just testified to, that you were talking about in
terms of March 8th?
A. It was the miracle of March 5th.
Q. Okay. Thank you.

A. Okay.
Q. And so I want to now talk about that. You were asked about a series of e-mails about this 02
press conference and what happened that day. First I want to ask you, before we go through all of
these e-mails, those e-mails happened in the span of a couple hours on one day; is that correct?
A. That's correct. Really, mostly in the span of and hour and a half to two hours, while I was
pacing up and down the hallways.
Q. So we talked a lot about them, but it's a very short period of time we're talking about; right?
A. That's correct.
Q. Let's set up what happened before we jump into them. So this indicates that Mr. Jackson and
Mr. Tohme had flew over on a plane. Do you know who went with them?
A. Yes.
Q. Who was that, sir?
A. It was the three kids: Blanket, Paris and Prince; Alberto Alvarez, who was his security guard
at the time; Dr. Tohme; Michael Jackson. And I believe the hair and makeup artist went over with
them on the plane, because she also doubled as a nanny. And I can't remember her name.
Q. It's not Karen Faye?
A. No.
Q. And so they went over. You didn't go with them?
A. No.
Q. Why didn't you go with them?
A. I flew to Miami to cover the opening of the Britney Spears tour. That was the start of the
"Circus" tour for Britney. So I went there for that, and then I flew from Miami to London on a
commercial flight.
Q. So first let me ask you about the Britney. Why did you go to the opening of the Britney spears
tour "circus"?
A. Because it was one of the top five tours of the year, and it was a huge tour, and I was the
person responsible for making that deal.

Q. Okay. So you went there for that?

A. Correct.
Q. So that tour you were working on?
A. Yes. And also, Mr. Putnam, as CEO. Of the company, when we have an opening of a tour that
large, okay, it would be remiss of me not to show up. It would be a sign like it didn't wasn't a big
deal, or this didn't mean anything to us.
Q. So this was for AEG Live?
A. Correct.
Q. So you go to Miami for that. Mr. Jackson and Dr. Tohme, and his family, and the
nanny/makeup artist are together, and they go over. Do you know when they went over?
A. They went over they arrived the day before I did.
Q. What day did you arrive?
A. I arrived on the morning of the 5th.
Q. The press conference is actually the 5th. And Mr. Jackson and his people arrive on the 4th.
You weren't with them?
A. No.
Q. You arrived separately on the 5th?
A. Correct.
Q. Were you travel by yourself?
A. No.
Q. Who was traveling with you?
A. I flew over with Dave Loeffler.
Q. And that's the same man we talked about before, who was a partner with you, who also works
who in the end and we'll get to it later did some work with Mr. Jackson on those two nights in
the Staples Center; correct?
A. Correct.

Q. And so you fly over. And was the only reason for you going to London was that you wanted to
be there for the press conference?
A. No.
Q. Why else were you there?
A. David and I were also producing the Lionel Richie tour, his European tour. And they were
starting rehearsals at the same time as the press conference. So Lionel in fact, I was staying with
Lionel at the Dorchester, that hotel. And he was there at the same time as Michael's press
conference. So it was a Fortunate coincidence.
Q. And that's something that Mr. Loeffler and you worked on as part of your management
company; is that correct?
A. That is correct.
Q. So that's why he was there, and one of the reasons why you were going to the event?
A. That is correct.
Q. And you say you arrived that morning. Did you go get some sleep?
A. I went straight to the Lanesborough hotel where Michael was staying, which was diagonally
across from Hyde Park corner. And I went there and had breakfast with Dr. Tohme, Paul
Gongaware, Rob Hallett, Alan Edwards, the press agent, the people Celena Aponte, I think, was
there. Dave accompanied me. And there was the people involved in the press conference.
Q. So you went right from your flight to this meeting at the Lanesborough. And I think every
single person you've mentioned are people that have come up through the course of this trial so
far. It was Dr. Tohme, who is with Mr. Jackson, and the rest of the people are people who were
working with AEG Live; correct?
A. That's correct. And independent contractors. Alan Edwards is an independent contractor. He's
a Publicist.
Q. It's the outside publicist you had a contract with?
A. Correct. The outside organization.
Q. As well as Celena Aponte?
A. Correct.
Q. What was the purpose of this meeting?

A. To touch base with everybody for the press conference. Talked about logistics, timing. That
type of thing, you know. Describing Paul described to Dr. Tohme the setting so he could take
Michael through it. That kind of thing.
Q. Now, let me ask you about that. So Mr. Gongaware is there. You said he went through the
setting. Was he dealing with the production elements of what was going on for the press
conference?
A. Yes, he was.
Q. And you were dealing with the artist for what was going on?
A. That is correct.
Q. Is that atypical?
A. No. That's typical.
Q. Okay. And so is it fair to say Mr. Gongaware was already there?
A. Yes.
Q. So you had this breakfast with everyone. And were you supposed to meet with Mr. Jackson at
any point?
A. Well, I said I told Dr. Tohme at breakfast I was going to go to my hotel and take a shower and
hopefully a little nap, because I was a little jet-lagged, and then come back to the Lanesborough
and meet him and go over with Michael and Dr. Tohme to the press conference.
Q. So you were going to meet Dr. Tohme at the Lanesborough and get Mr. Jackson and then go
over to the press conference?
A. Correct, while everyone else was already at the 02 for the press conference.
Q. And did you actually end up going back and getting a little sleep and a shower?
A. I did.
Q. And after the sleep and the shower, what did you do next?
A. Dave, who also was staying at the Dorchester, the two of us went over to the Lanesborough. I
thought he could give me some help with the logistics.
Q. And did you wait for Dr. Tohme and Mr. Jackson down in the lobby?

A. No. Dr. Tohme asked me to come up to his hotel suite, which was contiguous but not
connected to Michael's suite.
Q. All right. So you went upstairs to Dr. Tohme's room?
A. Correct.
Q. And Mr. Loeffler did not; is that correct?
A. No. Dave went down to the basement, because the way the hotel is built, the back is lower
than the front, the street level, and went to arrange for the transportation. We had a Lincoln
navigator that Michael favored, so we had one of those. We also had this bus.
Q. Okay. And so you went up to Dr. Tohme's room. Was Mr. Jackson in Dr. Tohme's room?
A. No.
Q. Who was in Dr. Tohme's room?
A. Dr. Tohme.
Q. So just the two of you?
A. Yes.
Q. How long were you there?
A. I was in the room with him for about 20 minutes. I remember I was sitting on the couch
watching CNN. And Dr. Tohme left and went into Michael's suite.
Q. And to leave to go into Michael's suite, you said they were not connected. So did he have to
leave his room and go into the hall?
A. He went out the doorway to the right and into the double doors that was the entrance to
Michael's suite.
Q. Michael's suite?
A. Correct.
Q. And so he left you in his own?
A. He left me sitting on the couch, watching CNN, yes.
Q. At this point in time, how is your schedule? Are you running on time?

A. I'm okay, you know.

Q. What do you mean?
A. I mean, normally I would I'm the kind of guy that gets to the airport two hours before the
flight because I'm neurotic. I would have liked to have left about then because of London traffic,
how famous it is and infamous it is. But we hadn't left yet. And this was probably about 1:45 at
this point.
Q. So you're starting to get a little apprehensive about this?
A. A little bit.
Q. But you're by yourself?
A. Yes.
Q. All right. And did you have an understanding as to why Dr. Tohme left the room to go get Mr.
Jackson?
A. No. I assumed to help him get ready.
Q. Okay. At that point in time did Dr. Tohme exhibit any signs that he might be concerned about
being on time?
A. No.
Q. How long were you there without Dr. Tohme?
A. Looking back at it, it seemed like an eternity, but he came back into the room about ten
minutes later and said, "Michael's just getting ready. He needs a little more time. Don't worry
about it. We'll get out on time," and that kind of thing.
Q. And how much longer and did he leave again?
A. Then he went back to Michael's room.
Q. So you're still left in the room?
A. Watching CNN, yes.
Q. And how long were you there for this portion?
A. This was about could have been 20 to 30 minutes.
Q. Starting to get worried at all?

A. I was starting to freak out.

Q. Okay. Why don't you tell me what you mean.
A. Meaning that I know London very well, I've spent a lot of time there. The 02, what makes it
great and makes it impossible at the same time, is that if you can take the tube, which is their
subway, it takes 20 minutes from the west end to get there. Incredible. It's on the east end of
London. And the reason we ended up building the arena there is because there was no other land
in London, and there was this big dome that the labor government had built, and they didn't
know what to do with it or how to program it, so it took an America company to show them how
to do it. But the point is, going there, the traffic is mind-boggling, and I knew it was going to
take us probably 90 minutes. And as it got later in the day, at 2:00, if we had left at 2:00 for a
3:00 press conference, it would have taken us 45 minutes.
Q. Okay. So
A. As you get later than 2:30, and as rush hour starts to begin, traffic starts to build up, that 45
Minutes could easily become 90 minutes, two hours.
Q. And so you said at this point you're freaking out?
A. I am completely freaking out, yes.
Q. And you're still alone?
A. I'm still alone. But at this point I was no longer in the room watching CNN. I was in the
hallway pacing back and forth.
Q. All right. So at some point you freaked out enough to go out in the hall and start pacing?
A. Yes.
Q. And when you say "the hall," the hotel hallway?
A. Hotel hallway. I believe it was the first floor of Lanesborough.
Q. And there are rooms, like doors to rooms, hotel rooms?
A. Yeah.
Q. And so you're pacing?
A. Uh-huh.
Q. Why didn't you just go up to his room and knock or go in?

A. Well, Dr. Tohme came out and said to me that if I remember correctly, he said to me, "we
have a little issue."
Q. Uh-huh.
A. I said, "okay. What is that?" and he said to me, "well, Michael got drunk." and I'm I think he
said he was sobering him up. I don't remember the exact terminology. But "we're getting him
ready, and we'll get him ready, but we're going to be a little bit late."
Q. How was your reaction to that?
A. More anxiety.
Q. Got it.
A. Yeah.
Q. Did he then go back in the room?
A. He went back in the room.
Q. Now, is there anybody stationed outside Mr. Jackson's room?
A. Yes. Alberto Alvarez.
Q. Who is that?
A. That is Michael's security person.
Q. So you're pacing in the hall?
A. Uh-huh.
Q. And there's a security guard outside of Mr. Jackson's room?
A. Correct. And you have to understand, that because you were talking about putting in context,
all these e-mails on my blackberry and stuff. I had an ear piece in my ear, I had a Blackberry in
my hand. I was typing e-mails at the same time I was talking and receiving phone calls from a lot
of very concerned people at the 02.
Q. And I'm going to show you the e-mails that you were asked about.
A. Okay.

Q. But before I do, when did you start e-mailing folks from did you do it from when you were in
the room before you went out to pace, or did you do it when you were pacing? When did you
start the e-mails?
A. When I started pacing when I realized we were starting to have a serious time problem.
Q. And that occurred before or after Dr. Tohme came out and said to you, "we might have a little
problem"?
A. Right after.
Q. Okay. Now I'm going to show you these e-mails, if I can. That was exhibit 2733. So this is
exhibit 2733 (indicating). It's a 1-page document. It's a couple e-mails between you and Tim
Leiweke; correct?
A. Correct.
Q. And do you remember being asked about this e-mail?
A. Yes, I do.
Q. First one says: "MJ is locked in his room drunk and despondent. Tohme and I are trying to
get him sober and get him to the press conference with his hairdresser/makeup artist." where
did you write that?
A. I wrote that in the hallway prior to getting into Michael's room.
Q. So at this point have you seen him?
A. No.
Q. Why did you say, "he's locked in his room"?
A. Because I couldn't get in the room. Alberto was at the door, and all my information was
coming from when Dr. Tohme would come out to calm me down.
Q. And "he was despondent." why did you say he was despondent?
A. That's what Dr. Tohme said.
Q. And it says: "Tohme and I tried to sober him up and get him to the press conference." at
this point were you trying to sober him up?
A. No. I wrote that because I knew I was going into the room at that point, so I could type the e-
mail and put the two things together of what I was going to be doing.

Q. So this is the first e-mail you wrote, and you now left the room, Dr. Tohme's room, and you're
in the hallway pacing; correct?
A. Correct.
Q. And you're writing this to Tim Leiweke who is at AEG?
A. He was somewhere in America.
Q. Somewhere in America. You didn't know where he was?
A. No.
Q. Still freaking out?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. Is that why you sent the e-mail?
A. Well, it didn't make me less freaked out, but I figured I owed my immediate report an idea of
what was happening, when I finally got the sense of what was happening.
Q. And he responds, as you can see, "are you kidding me?"
A. Yes.
Q. It says, in terms of time and I know we've had this issue of time for a number of e-mails. But
on this one, yours seems to have been sent at 5:49:18 in 2009; correct?
A. Correct.
Q. And we're not sure what time zone that is, but we do know that whatever there is a time zone
in which it's 5:49:18; correct?
A. Correct.
Q. And then his response is 7:29:43. Now, that could be seconds later oh, I guess it couldn't be
because it's 29. So this is sometime after, as much as an hour and a half; correct?
A. Probably.
Q. So he responds, but maybe not with the greatest haste. Would that be fair to say?
A. Yeah, you could say that.
Q. All right. But at this point in time you don't know where he was?

A. No.
Q. All right. The did a time come when you did eventually go into Mr. Jackson's room?
A. Yes.
Q. And how did that come to be?
A. I went to the door, and I said, "Alberto, you've got to let me in. We're really this is not good.
This is a crisis situation. I have to get in that room because we have people waiting. We have
press and all that." and he could see by my face, it was not a time to stop me, okay, so he let me
in.
Q. Now, you said now, "this is a crisis situation." was it a crisis?
A. Well, that's a term to me at the time, it was a crisis, because time was ticking away. I was
sweating bullets, and this was a you know, we had over 3,000 fans, 350-plus news organizations
with their crews waiting for Mr. Jackson. So, yeah, for me, at the time it felt like A. Crisis.
Q. And let me ask you a question. You talked about this earpiece you had. Is that how you knew
you had all these fans, all this press sitting here waiting?
A. Well, the 25 phone calls in five minutes, yes.
Q. Okay. So you're in the hall, there's phone calls from the venue, you're pacing. There's a guard
at the door, and Mr. Jackson and his manager are behind that door; right?
A. Correct.
Q. You go in?
A. I go into the room.
Q. Tell us what happened.
A. And Michael when I first walked into the room, Michael was sitting on the couch. And I
think he had a like some kind of robe on. I don't know if it was his robe or a hotel robe. He had a
robe on and his pants, but he had a robe on. And I remember seeing a bottle of, what I thought
was it was a clear bottle, so I assumed it was vodka, could be Gin, whatever. Bottle of booze on
the foot of the couch.
Q. Did that worry you?

A. Yes. Yes.
Q. How did he seem to you?
A. He seemed and I know this is the subject of a lot of debate. I don't drink, so I'm hard for me
to tell what the difference is from still being drunk or being in that phase where you're hung over.
To me, he looked hung over.
Q. And so he looked hung over, sitting on a couch in a robe. He has pants on.
A. Yes.
Q. And you then wrote is this the point strike that. You said that you expected a time would
come when you would go in and try to help sober Mr. Jackson up. What did you do when you
were in the room?
A. I talked to him.
Q. And what did you talk to him about?
A. I said, "Michael, are you okay?" and that's when he said to me that he was really concerned
that people, there was not going to be anyone there, and that people didn't care anymore, maybe
you know, maybe this would be a bust, or something to that effect. At which time I explained to
him that, "Michael, you're quite wrong. You've got over 3,000 adoring fans who have been there
for hours waiting for you, probably camped out overnight the night before. And you have every
major press organization in the world. Trust me, Michael, they want to see you."
Q. Did this surprise you that he was concerned about the press conference, and people wouldn't
be there, they were not interested?
A. No, because Dr. Tohme had asked me if maybe we should hire a crowd, a rent-a-crowd to be
at the airport when he arrived to make him feel good. And, no, we didn't do that. We didn't have
to. We just had to leak that he was coming, and the fans find out.
Q. Okay. And did Mr. Jackson start getting ready?
A. Yeah. He got up and went into the bathroom with Dr. Tohme and the and Alberto may have
been helping at this time. I can't remember. And the woman who was serving as the hair, makeup
and also doubling as a nanny, because the kids were in the other room
Watching tv.
Q. And it says: "Tohme and I have dressed him. And" I'm sorry. You then responded
Ultimately to Mr. Leiweke. At this point you say I'll get to the scream part in a second. The
second part, you say: "Tohme and I have dressed him, and they are finishing his hair, and
then we are rushing him to the 02." what did you mean by that?

A. Meaning, Michael came out of the bedroom, the master bedroom, with Dr. Tohme, and he was
standing there. And he had black slacks on and boots and a white v-neck t-shirt. And then they
were holding I don't know if it was Alberto holding the two shirts, but someone was holding two
different shirts. One was black, and I think one was blue or red. And there were three shirts.
There was a red one. They were all the same. They had this, like, sergeant's chevrons on the
sleeve, and this ornate kind of stitching and detail. And they asked me, which one should he
wear? And Paul told me there was going to be a red backdrop, so I said he should wear either the
blue or the black one, and I think it was the black one.
Q. Is that what you meant when you said we dressed him?
A. Yes.
Q. Were you, like, literally physically dressing Mr. Jackson?
A. No.
Q. Okay. Are you aware of anybody physically dressing Mr. Jackson other than Mr. Jackson?
A. No.
Q. We'll skip the next one, because that one you were asked about, and there's one you weren't.
"he's an emotionally paralyzed mess riddled with self-loathing and doubt now that it is show
time." what did you mean by that?
A. That was the my reflection and observation of my conversation with him when I first walked
into the room. And he was so insecure about whether people even cared, and this thing was going
to be successful.
Q. And you also say, "he is scared to death"?
A. Yes.
Q. When you say, "right now I just want to get through this press conference," what did you
mean?
A. What do I mean? I think any human being in that situation wanted I just wanted to get him to
the press conference, hope it went well and be done with this and forget this day ever happened.
Q. "I screamed at him so loud the walls were shaking."
A. Yes.
Q. Now explain to us what you did.

A. Okay. I admitted to being a bit of a drama queen. I was so nervous about the situation. I
created so much tension in that room at the time because I was tense, and you could cut the
tension with a knife because time was ticking away, all these things were happening at the same
time. And Michael wouldn't leave unless he left with his armband, the sequined armband on his
shirt. And they had to ask the hotel engineer to go and figure out how to put this armband on,
because they had no way of securing it. And that, to me at that point that was more than I could
take
Q. Okay.
A. Okay, because we were really this thing was ready to fall apart, we would have never gotten
there on time, and we were spending 10, 15 minutes to try to figure out how to put on an
armband. So what I did, I actually I raised my voice and pretty much said, "okay, guys.
Enough."And I then wrote it like this where it really isn't a full reflection of what happened.
Q. And at that moment did it seem like the scariest thing you'd ever seen?
A. Yes. It was pretty close.
Q. In retrospect, was it the scariest thing you'd ever seen?
A. No. There are much scarier things.
Q. Did you get him downstairs in the vehicle to get to the 02?
A. Yeah. I then went into jester mode to kind of lighten up the whole thing. And we got
downstairs and had a very funny we got into this big oversized van and had a very funny ride to
the 02.
Q. So the mood changed?
A. Yes. I had to change it.
Q. And did he because you kind of created it?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And on the way there, did he remain nervous?
A. No. No. He was actually quite funny in the van.
Q. And what happened when you arrived at the 02?
A. Uhm, he got out of the van we all got out of the van. He got out into a golf cart with Dr.
Tohme and Alberto, I believe, and whoever the driver was from the 02. I Rob Hallett was there.

I walked behind him, and they drove him down this hallway to go in to get ready to go onto the
stage for the press conference.
Q. Have I put that into all the context of what happened that day, where you were coming from
and everything else? Have I missed something?
A. Well, the van ride.
Q. Okay.
A. Okay.
Q. What happened in the van ride?
A. Well, we had helicopters following us, which is, luckily, the only reason the press, the people
didn't leave and fans didn't leave, because you could see on the news, they were covering it live,
that we were going to the press conference. So that was a godsend that that was happening. And
in the van, Michael kept saying to me, you lost literally 10 times because he knew what he
Did wasn't the coolest thing in the world to everybody. And Mark Lester was in the van with us.
He had arrived at the hotel as we were getting ready to leave. Mark Lester was Oliver twist.
Q. The Oliver Twist guy you mentioned.
A. He was his friend. He kept saying to me, you know, "you look great. You've lost a lot of
weight." and literally, I was the heaviest I had ever been in my life. And finally literally 10
times. After the 10th time, I said to Michael, I said, "Michael, okay, you would have lost weight
if you were pacing in front of your hotel room waiting for you to leave," you know. And it got a
laugh, and the whole thing. It was good. I mean, his mood, everything was much better in the
van. We had some great conversations. I mean, he and Dave had a conversation. I was talking to
Tohme. I got to know Mark Lester, because we had about an hour and 10 minutes to get there.
Q. So let me make sure I understand. The press waiting, the fans waiting, the helicopters are
following you, and it's about an hour to get there. Did this help build up the promotion for the
announcement at the 02?
A. In an odd way, it created more anticipation and made it a bigger event, as people doubted
whether it was even going to happen, yeah.
Q. How did you think the press conference went?
A. Well, considering Michael was supposed to write his remarks the night before and hadn't, so I
had to quickly write them as I was running behind the golf cart, I was writing, coming up with
things for him to say, and we you know, I basically wrote like five lines out, "This Is It," this is
the last time, you know, whatever he said was stuff I wrote and put in the teleprompter, and he
improvised a little. But what I noticed is, when he got off the golf cart, and there was a curtain

and then some steps, and then there was the lobby to the 02, and there were 3,000 kids, and fans,
not just kids and all the press and the cameras, I watched him. And you know, and I've said this
before, the chart of homo sapiens, when they're hunched over, then bigger. That's how he looked.
He started a little hunched over, got up, got up, and when he went through that curtain, there was
Michael Jackson.
Q. And there's a clip of that commentary by you in the film, was there not?
A. Yeah. I think in the special.
Mr. Putnam: I would like to show that, if I can, your honor, so the jury can actually see
that.
Judge: it's 12:00.
Mr. Putnam: it's very short.
Mr. Panish: is this in the film in evidence?
Mr. Putnam: in the film already admitted.
Judge: okay. We'll see it and then take the break.
The clerk: what exhibit?
Mr. Putnam: this is 12,927. And the clip is called, "press conference." and the clip will be
given to you as well.
(a video clip was played.)
Q. does that depict the actual event, sir?
A. That is the actual event.
Mr. Putnam: thank you, your honor.
LUNCH BREAK

Continued cross examination by Marvin Putnam:

Q. So, Mr. Phillips, we were, just before the break, talking about the press conference at the 02.
This is March 5th, 2009, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. How did you think the press conference went in the end?
A. I thought it came out fine.
Q. The -- how many shows did you announce at that time?
A. We -- we announced 10 originally, which is what you would normally do in a multi -- you'd put
one
up and then roll into a second or third or fourth, a normal show. In this case, we put 10 up and
pre-registration demand was greater and we ended up adding shows.
Q. I'm going to ask you about that in a second. So you announced 10 at the press conference?
A. Correct.
Q. And after the press conference, were you relieved?
A. No, I was ecstatic.
Q. Okay. And can you recall what Mr. Jackson's reaction was after the press conference?
A. He was elated.
Q. Why do you say that, sir?
A. Because his worst fears and trepidations were -- you know, they didn't happen. There were
tons of people there, fans, for him, the whole thing.
Q. Did you have any protestors protesting against his appearances?
A. No.
Q. Did you have -- was the response mild?
A. No. It was over the top. It was a huge, huge -- I've never seen anything like it for the
announcement of some live performances in my life.

Q. So it went okay?
A. It went great.
Q. Did you return immediately to the States?
A. No. I actually stayed in London, and I actually spent the next evening with Michael.
Q. Tell me about that.
A. Okay. Because the play -- there was a play on the west end, the musical "Oliver Twist."
Michael thought it would be great if he could take the kids, take Oliver Twist, mark Lester, his --
his daughter,
maybe two kids, his daughter, his wife, and Dr. Tohme, and Dave and I. And so I arranged for
seats for him for the show that -- the following night on the West End.
Q. When you say "Oliver Twist," this man whose name I can't remember -- I'm sorry. What was
his name again?
A. Mark Lester.
Q. Mark Lester. You said he was the original Oliver Twist?
A. As a child actor, yes.
Q. Was that in a show or in a movie?
A. In the movie, the David Lean movie, the famous movie.
Q. Did you all end up going to see the west end production of Oliver Twist the following night?
A. Yes. I got Michael and his kids four seats right in the first row of the orchestra in the break
between
the beginning section and the second section, so the best seats in the house, and the rest of us
sat in the opera boxes.
Q. And, tell me, did you have a fun evening?
A. Well, for Michael, it was unbelievable. When we arrived at the theater, it was kind of
pandemonium because someone had leaked that he was going to the show. So we arrived, we
went into the theater, and the audience was already in when Michael arrived. And when Michael

walked in, he got a standing ovation in the theater, which was, for him -- it had been years. It
was unbelievable. And so that -- that was great. Then in the intermission he came upstairs and
we all hung out in this little parlor
off of the opera boxes, and he was really like ecstatic at the reaction of what happened. And
what really got him crazy is when we were leaving, they had to have policemen on horses. We
couldn't get the little van out of -- you know, they're narrow streets in London, but we couldn't get
the van out of there because there were thousands of people in the streets.
Q. So this is the day after your press announcement on March 5th?
A. Correct.
Q. And how did Mr. Jackson seem that evening?
A. Incredible, great.
Q. Sorry?
A. Great.
Q. Did -- it's now March 6th, in fact. At this point in time, did you have any concerns about Mr.
Jackson physically?
A. No, absolutely not.
Q. What about the fact that he had been drinking, you think, the night before -- or I guess the
afternoon before, before the press conference? Didn't that give you some concern?
A. Well, it concerned me the day of the press -- in terms of getting him to the press conference,
but this would not have been the first time I've dealt with an artist who drank a little too much.
Q. But -- so you weren't worried that this meant that maybe you would have some ongoing issue
and
not be able to have the shows at the 02 in a couple of months?
A. Not at all.
Q. Did you worry about his psychological well being at that point? You said he was really
nervous and worried about his return to the world stage. Didn't that give you cause for concern?

A. It was -- it was gone. It was alleviated.

Q. Why do you say that?
A. By the reaction to him, the throngs in the streets, the ticket sales, the whole thing.
Q. What about his weight? Worried about his weight at this point?
A. No.
Q. Was there anything you were worried about at that point, anything specific that you were
worried
about at that point, March 6th, 2009, about Michael Jackson and his ability to perform in July --
beginning in July of 2009?
A. Not at all, nothing.
Q. And at this point, if I take summer of 2008, you'd been dealing with Mr. Jackson for eight
months, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. And how often would you say you were dealing with Mr. Jackson in that eight-month period?
A. In terms of how many times had I interacted with him?
Q. Uh-huh.
A. I mean, it's a guess, but I'd say at least 20.
Q. And no worries from those 20 meetings?
A. No.
Q. So it's March 6th, 2009 now. You've announced that there's going to be the This Is It series of
shows at the 02 beginning of July of 2009, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. You announced ten shows. Now, how many shows had you contracted up to?
A. 31.
Q. So you could do up to 31 shows under the contract?
A. Correct.

Q. But we've heard testimony that ultimately it was 50 shows. Is that true?
A. That is true.
Q. And do you have an understanding as to how it came to be 50 shows?
A. Yes.
Q. How was that, sir?
A. Okay. When -- we did a pre-registration for his shows, which is unusual. They're doing it more
now. This was early times for this, where people would register because we weren't sure what
the demand was going to be, so it kind of gave us a -- a first look into how big the demand was
going to be. So people went online and they registered to buy tickets. And we could tell from the
number of registrations in what we call the "queue," which is a fancy word for a line, online, and
we could tell that
not only were the 10 shows going to blow out immediately once we fulfilled the orders, but the
31 shows, we would end up with no tickets left on sale for what we call the public general on
sale, where people would go to the box office the day of the show. So Paul Gongaware called
me, and I remember
distinctly I was at L street studios -- or one of those studios outside of London where Lionel
Richie was
mounting his production for his tour. I was in the production office, I got a call from Paul
Gongaware, who said to me -- said, as he speaks, "Dude, we're going to sell -- we're going to
sell out a ridiculous amount of tickets. It's much bigger than I even thought." And he was the
most optimistic. "We've got
to get --" he used to call Michael "Mikey." "We've got to get Mikey to add more shows." and I
said, "Okay. Let me call Dr. Tohme." So I called Dr. Tohme and I said, "Doc, this thing is out of
control. Would you speak to Michael?" They had returned to the United States. They were all
back in the United States. And I said, "Would you talk to Michael and see if we could add shows
for the general -- for the general public on sale?" And Dr. Tohme called me back and said,

"Okay. I'll go call him now and I'll get back to you." He called me back almost instantly, called me
back and said that Michael would agree to do up to 50 shows, and -- could go ahead and do
that. So we went from 31 to 50. And about 20 minutes later, I got a call from Michael Amir
Williams saying, "Mr. Jackson is on the phone. He would like to speak to you." So I picked up
the phone. It was Michael, and Michael said, "Well, how long am I going to be there, to be in the
UK to do the 50 shows?" And I joked with him. I said, "Long enough to qualify for a British
passport," was the joke. And he said, "Oh, no, I can't do that." I said, "No. We'll work out the
schedule. You know, Paul has worked with you before. It will be a schedule that you can live
with that will work." and he said, "Well, there are two conditions." And he was very clear about
this. One condition was he wanted a house out in the countryside that was -- it's interesting. He
said at least 16 acres -- 16 and a half acres, rolling streams -- rolling hills, running streams,
horseback riding, and a separate guest house where he could put writers to work on Thriller 3D
at the time. And he said he just didn't want to be trapped in a hotel in London with the kids. No
matter how beautiful it was, no matter how great the hotel, he didn't want to be trapped in that
hotel and not be able to go out. So that was the condition. The other condition was at the end of
the 50th show, he wanted a representative from the Guinness Book of World Records to be
there to memorialize the event because he knew no one would ever, ever be able to do 50
shows in an arena in one city ever again.
Q. I'll ask you a couple of things about that. One is on the second one, the Guinness Book of
World Records. Is that in reference to what you were talking about before with Prince having set
an earlier record with 21?
A. Correct.
Q. And so he called and said he'd do the 50 shows, but he had these two conditions?
A. That's correct.
Q. And in terms of the house, did you get the impression he had a house in mind? That's rather
specific.

A. Well, actually, eventually, I did come to learn that he had been surfing the internet and I think
he had found a house.
Q. Did he have it exact right down to the acreage?
A. Yes.
Q. Did he say to you in any way, "no, I won't do 50 shows"?
A. No.
Q. Did he ever tell you, "No, I can't do 50 shows"?
A. No.
Q. Did he ever tell you, "I don't want to do 50 shows, but if you're going to make me --"
A. No.
Q. Okay. Did you ever have a sense from Michael Jackson that he had a problem with the idea
of doing 50 shows?
A. No.
Q. And do you recall as you sit here today over what period of time those 50 shows were spread
out?
A. They actually got more spread out. Originally I think they were over seven months. I think
they ended up being spread out over nine and a half months.
Q. Were there ever two shows together in the end?
A. No.
Q. And do you recall --
A. You mean two shows back to back?
Q. Yes, I do.
A. No.
Q. And did you -- as you sit here today I'm trying not to go back over all that stuff because
other
Witnesses have testified to it. But can you recall as you sit here today whether there was a

break at all in the number of shows?

A. Oh, yes.
Q. And do you recall as you sit here today how long that break was?
A. I believe -- I believe it was at least a month, if not more.
Q. And the other thing -- you said a couple of things. Another thing you mentioned, you
mentioned Dr. Tohme. And I remembered there was something in the clip we saw just before -- I
want to ask you a
question. Can I show a clip of what we showed before? It's just literally a piece for a minute.
Here's a still of what we showed just before lunch. I'll give you the exhibit number. It's the press
conference clip from the movie.
The clerk: 12927.
Mr. Putnam: Yes. Thank you very much. And this is a still, I guess you'd call it. I freeze-
framed what was running. That's what I know it as.
Phillips: It's a frame, yes.
Mr. Putnam: Thank you.
Q. In this frame, do you recognize any of these people?
A. Yeah. Also, let me just say something. My memory was faulty. I didn't walk behind it, they I,
obviously, sat in the golf cart.
Q. Okay.
A. So before I get questioned on my memory --
Q. Go ahead.
A. Now -- okay. That -- I'm sitting in the front seat. One of the staff from the 02 is there. That's
Michael Jackson, and that's Dr. Tohme, and that's Aberto Alvarez walking alongside Michael.

Q. I'm going to go from left to right if I can. The man standing, the big guy?
A. That is Alberto Alvarez.
Q. And to his left, our right, is that Michael Jackson?
A. That is Michael Jackson.
Q. And who is sitting next to him?
A. That is Dr. Tohme, his manager.
Q. And the next person, that's you?
A. That's me.
Q. And who's driving it?
A. That's probably a staff member from the 02.
Q. So it's not somebody who worked with you directly?
A. No.
Q. Okay. Now, so sometime in March after the announcement on the 5th, you went from the
announcement of 10 shows, burned through the 31, had an agreement for the 50, and did you
end up being able to sell those 50 shows?
A. Yeah. We actually -- on that Friday of the on sale, which was going to be a public on sale, we
held
back five shows to go on sale. And there was a line around the 02 because we wanted to create
that line. Because so much is done on the internet now that you don't get the same sense of
show business that we've all grown up with. So we created that line by holding back five shows,
and those shows went like that.
Q. Now, I'll skip through the next couple of months, but I'll ask you a question about them. It's
March, early March 2009. And Mr. Jackson passes on June 25th, 2009, so it's April, May, June,
three months, a little over three months. In the three month that follow, did you continue to have
meetings with Mr. Jackson?
A. Yes.

Q. Did you have them by yourself?

A. No. There was -- there was always someone in the meeting besides me.
Q. And what types of meetings, just very broadly -- what types of meetings would you have?
A. We had a meeting with -- an incredible meeting with Tom Bennett from Bravado, a
merchandising
company which is owned by universal music. It's the largest merchandise company in the
business, and we had a -- really, it was -- it could have been four hours, as I remember, at
Michael's house at night. And they were discussing -- they were taking a vacant store on oxford
circle, which goes into
Piccadilly, so it's like this curved street with retail stores. There was a vacant store. They were
going to
take that and turn that into a Michael Jackson Center merchandise store that was going to be
open all the time. So you didn't just -- you weren't just able to buy merch at the arena, you could
buy it at the
store. And they were going to do a big opening, Michael was going to come, and there is -- there
exists -- there were two massive catalogs of items that Michael helped design with Tom Bennett
and his staff that they were going to sell. And an interesting point you're not asking about, but
we also have a merchandising company at AEG Live, and I could have done the merchandise
because we had the rights to do the merchandise. We could have done it through AEG Live and
kept it in-house. And I didn't feel we were strong enough or had the ability to execute the way
Bravado did, and, you know, so that's something that we -- Michael -- we made the deal with
Bravado.
Q. So that's the type of meetings that you were having with Mr. Jackson?
A. Yes.
Q. And you said that was at Carolwood. Were your meetings always at Carolwood?
A. Pretty -- yeah, other than the one scheduling meeting I witnessed more than participated in,

which was at Center Staging out in Burbank. So there may be three times I went out to Center
Staging in Burbank when Michael was there rehearsing, and then I saw him at the Forum, and
then at Staples Center, and then all the other meetings were at Carolwood in that living room.
Q. In the living room. I want to ask you a little bit about that. So Carolwood. Do you understand
that
Carolwood has more than one level, more than one floor?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you ever leave the first floor?
A. There was one meeting where we went downstairs into the subterranean space where there
was
a screening room where Michael showed us a short film he was working on called Ghost. that
was kind of like a demo for Thriller 3D. That was the one time I actually got out of the living
room. I went to the powder room a couple of times, and once I went to a meeting there, I hadn't
eaten lunch, I was starving, I went into the kitchen and grabbed a banana.
Q. Okay. Except for the one time you went downstairs to the screening room, did you ever leave
the first floor?
A. No.
Q. Did you ever go upstairs?
A. No.
Q. Do you know what was upstairs?
A. Well, I assumed.
Q. You never went up there?
A. No.
Q. Were you ever invited up and decline to go?
A. No.
Q. So you never went upstairs in the Carolwood house?

A. Never.
Q. So in this period of time from the announcement in early March through April into May, up
until June 1 -- stop there for a moment. June 1, 2009, the month of Mr. Jackson's passing, at
any time in that time period, other than the one time that you've already noted where you were
waiting in a meeting, Mr. Jackson was late, and you were told that he was with Dr. Arnold Klein
-- other than that one time, was there anytime that you saw or heard that Mr. Jackson had any
physical problems whatsoever?
A. No.
Q. All right. Did you at any other time than that have any belief that Mr. Jackson -- or suspicion
that Mr. Jackson had any problem with prescription drugs?
A. No.
Q. Did you ever see him under the influence of anything?
A. No.
Q. What about drinking? Did you ever see him drinking in that time period?
A. No.
Q. Did you ever think he was inebriated in that time period?
A. No.
Q. What about hung over?
A. No.
Q. Did you see him talking slowly or laboriously in that time period?
A. No.
Q. Did you have any reason to believe and, again, I'm putting aside, because I'm going to ask
you
about it, that one time you were waiting for him in a meeting. Other than that one time, up until
June 1st, 2009, did you have any reason to believe that Mr. Jackson couldn't perform at the 02
the 50 shows that were upcoming?

A. Absolutely not.
Q. Can you recall any time you paused and wondered, "God, I'm not sure he's physically up to
this" in that time period ever?
A. No.
Q. Now, in that same time period, did it come to pass that you understood that Mr. Jackson
wanted to
take his doctor with him to the -- the 02?
A. Yes. I was informed of that -- I had just come back from -- I think I was on the Bon Jovi tour,
covering that. I'm -- I'm not sure. It could have been Bon Jovi, it could have been Britney
Spears. But I was on the road and I came back into LA. And they had already started rehearsals
at the Forum at the time, the arena the Forum in Inglewood at the time. And when I went into the
arena, I walked in the backstage corridor to go to the production office, and I met Frank Dileo,
Paul Gongaware and Timm Woolley in the hallway right in front of the production office.
Mr. Panish: Excuse me, your honor. Could we just ask the witness to answer the question
instead of
volunteering these speeches? The question was, "Did there come a time when you
became aware of Dr. Murray?" That's a pretty simple question. There was Bon Jovi and
all these other things that are not responsive to the question. So we just ask that he
answer -- I haven't objected, I've let it all go, but could he answer the question, please?
Judge: Overruled.
Phillips: thank you.
Mr. Putnam: Thank you, your honor.
Q. So you're at the Forum, and you're approached by these three individuals?

A. Correct.
Q. And did you come to understand that Dr. -- strike that. Did you come to understand that
Michael Jackson wanted to bring his personal physician with him?
A. That's what I -- that's what I was told at that meeting, and they had tried to talk Michael out of
it.
Frank -- Frank, Timm Woolley and Paul told me that they tried to talk him out of it because -- not
because they knew anything about his doctor, but because the expense of that would have
been pretty large and unnecessary, and considering how much they had been spending already
on production
Mr. Panish: Excuse me. I'm going to -- nonresponsive to the question whether he
understood he wanted was to bring his personal physician. I would ask -- I can't object
when he just gives these long speeches.
Judge: He is giving -- all right, sustained.
Mr. Panish: He's getting into hearsay and three other witnesses saying things, and -- if
he'd just answer the question -- otherwise, I don't want to interrupt him.
Judge: Sustained.
Mr. Putnam: All right, your honor.
Q. So at this point in time, you came to understand that Michael Jackson wanted to bring his
doctor with him?
A. That is correct.
Q. And the -- do you remember what month this happened in?
A. It was -- it was probably sometime in June, because whenever they went into the 02 -- not
the 02, into the Forum -- so whenever they started rehearsals at the Forum, it was right at the

beginning of that.
Q. Now, you talked to these individuals and you understood that a time had come -- now, I'm
going to say that prior testimony has indicated that actually happened about a month earlier. Mr.
Gongaware
indicated that he had spoken to him a month earlier. That would have been may 2009. Is he
wrong?
A. Well, I wouldn't have had that conversation. I don't know when Paul started to talk to Michael
about the doctor. I have no idea.
Q. Okay. And -- but you did understand at that point in time that Mr. Gongaware had already had
a
conversation with Dr. Conrad Murray?
A. Yeah, I understand, and it was when -- whenever they were in the Forum, because it was at
the Forum that the meeting -- that my meeting happened.
Q. Now, you had this conversation, and as a result of that, what did you think? Is this the first
time you've heard that Michael Jackson wants to bring his personal physician with him?
A. That is correct.
Q. And what was your reaction?
A. Really not much of any kind of reaction, other than the -- the cost of it. They asked me if I
would take a shot at talking Michael out of it because they had failed.
Q. And did you agree to the same?
A. Yes.
Q. And did you, in fact, take a shot at it?
A. I did.
Q. How did you do that? Did you go up to him that -- that day at rehearsals and say, "hey, I
understand you want to take your doctor with you"?
A. No.

I -- I called him that afternoon.

Q. And when you say you called "him," who did you call?
A. I called Michael Amir Williams, his assistant, and I asked him if I could speak to Mr. Jackson,
and he put Michael on the phone.
Q. Now I want to ask a couple of things about that, again, to try to narrow down the time that
this occurred. The -- we had been talking about the -- before lunch about the idea that Dr.
Tohme at that time and for the prior several months had been acting as Mr. Jackson's manager.
You had testified earlier about the idea that a point in time came when Frank Dileo came in. You
just indicated that Mr. Dileo is the one who delivered this to you. So this occurred a time after
which Mr. Dileo had come back into Mr. Jackson's life?
A. That is correct.
Q. And can you recall whether -- is this also after the time that Dr. Tohme was no longer in his
life?
A. That's correct, that's correct.
Q. And at this -- you'd also indicated that previously when you spoke with -- wanted to speak
with Mr. Jackson, you did it through Dr. Tohme. You just indicated in that call that you were
doing it through
Michael Amir Williams. Was this a change, as well?
A. Yes.
Q. And generally in this period of time when you wanted to speak with Michael Jackson, would
you call Michael Jackson directly?
A. Well, no. You would call Michael Amir Williams' cell phone, because I -- he carried a cell
phone, and then he would put Michael on the phone or arrange for Michael to call me back.
Q. And as you recall, that's what happened in this instance?
A. He -- I think he handed Michael the phone.
Q. Okay. And did it come to be that you actually spoke with Mr. Michael Jackson about this?

A. Yes.
Q. And what happened in that phone conversation with Mr. Jackson?
A. It was -- it was probably -- in the history of my relationship with Michael, it was probably the --
kind of the most tense one-on-one phone call because I said -- I said, "Michael, you're going to
be playing,
you're going to be performing in London. London has some of the greatest medical facilities and
staff in the -- in the world." I actually said, "You're not playing in Kabul, you know, Afghanistan.
You're playing in London. So would you consider that we hire a doctor -- that you hire a doctor in
London -- okay? -- for this tour, for these dates, just to save the money on flights, per diems,
hotels or lodging, that type of thing?" And I don't even remember if I knew how much Paul was
negotiating with Dr. Murray for at that point.
Q. And so what did you say to him? Did you say, "I'm not doing this"? What did you say to Mr.
Jackson?
A. No, no. I asked him if it was okay -- you don't say you're not doing something. I asked him if it
was
okay, and he -- he then launched into that that diatribe about how his body is the machine that
drives
this entire -- the engine or the machine that drives this entire venture, and he needs to have a
physician 24/7 the same way president Obama does.
Q. Now, when you said "the same way president Obama does," did you just add that or is that
what he said?
A. That's what he said.
Q. Now, did this seem strange to you?
A. What, that he --
Q. He was demanding his doctor go?
A. It's Michael. When he wants something, he wants something, and at that -- at that point, we

had
already sold out the shows, and even though I wanted him to net as much money as possible, if
he wanted to bring his own doctor, I was not in a position to tell him no.
Q. And why weren't you in a position to tell him no?
A. Because it was his own money.
Q. What do you mean, it was his own money?
A. We'd already sold the shows. There was no more risk -- commercial risk as to whether the
shows were going to do well. Now it was only a question of how much -- how to maximize the
revenues from this venture, including merch and stuff like that, and also to control the costs.
Q. So at this point in time, the 50 shows had already sold?
A. Correct.
Q. The money had been paid for those shows, is that correct?
A. That's correct.
Q. The money is sitting in a bank somewhere?
A. Correct.
Q. And Mr. Jackson comes and says he wants to bring his doctor with him to London. Now, was
it that he wanted to bring him to London? Is that what the request was, in your understanding?
A. Correct.
Q. And how did you come to understand that it was his personal doctor that he was asking for?
A. He told me.
Q. And at this point in time, if the money has come in from the shows, why can't he pay the
doctor
directly?
A. I think -- I think he was paying the doctor directly.
Q. What I mean by this is this. If a request is for him to go to London, become part of the shows,

why couldn't it be that he could just continue to pay his doctor and that AEG Wouldn't advance
the money?
Mr. Panish: Excuse me. There's no foundation for this question or his prior answer as to
who is paying or not.
Mr. Putnam: Let me ask the question.
Mr. Panish: There's no foundation. I object.
Judge: Sustained.
Q. If it occurred that Dr. Conrad Murray had gone on the tour, did you have an understanding as
to how he would be paid?
A. We were going to advance the money out of monies due to Michael.
Q. And whose obligation would it be ultimately to -- to be paying Dr. Conrad Murray? Would you
get that money back?
A. Yes, we would recoup it 100 percent.
Q. So my question to you is, if the monies had come into the bank, were sitting there, why
couldn't
Michael Jackson just keep paying the doctor the way he had been?
Mr. Panish: Well, objection to foundation whether anyone was paying him.
Judge: Sustained.
Mr. Panish: Counsel is testifying.
Judge: I sustained the objection, so --
Mr. Putnam: I apologize, your honor.
Mr. Panish: And he's asking the same question, and he's leading and suggestive on

every question.
Judge: Sustained.
Q. Did you have an understanding of who was paying Dr. Conrad Murray at this point in time?
A. No.
Q. Were you paying Dr. Conrad Murray at this point in time?
A. No.
Q. Was AEG Live paying Dr. Conrad Murray at this point in time?
A. No.
Q. Did you have an understanding -- was a request made of you as -- strike that. You already
answered that. Did you have a problem with the idea that you were going to be advancing the
monies for Dr. Conrad Murray if he went on tour?
A. I didn't even -- I didn't think about it. Because it was Michael's obligation, so I didn't think
about it.
Q. And when you say you didn't even think about it, what do you mean by that?
A. Meaning when he insisted on bringing his own physician to the dates in London, that was the
end
of the discussion.
Q. Now, when you say that it was one of those -- you said it was one of the more difficult
conversations you had with him. Why do you say it was one of the more difficult conversations?
A. Because he was so forc -- I thought I'd be able to reason with him and talk him out of the
expenses, and he was -- he insisted that he had to have his own physician.
Q. Well, didn't that alone raise any suspicions for you? Didn't that make you concerned, that he
was so adamant that he was bringing his doctor?
A. No.

Q. Why is that, sir?

A. Well, we -- we had never -- I've never been involved where a doctor went on a tour, or to
dates like that, but he's Michael Jackson, so I just accepted it.
Q. Now, were you ever able to convince Michael Jackson that he shouldn't be able to take his
personal physician on tour?
A. No. I wouldn't think that was my role as his promoter. When I dealt with him on this, it was
strictly about the cost of bringing another body on the road, especially an expensive one.
Mr. Panish: Excuse me, your honor. Once again, the question was, "Were you ever able
to convince Mr. Jackson he shouldn't bring his personal physician on tour?" That
doesn't call for all this speech that he's making. I move to strike and just ask him to
answer the question.
Judge: Sustained. Answer the question asked.
Q. Did a time ever come where you attempted again to talk Mr. Jackson out of bringing his
personal physician on tour?
A. No.
Q. Why didn't you ever try to do it again?
A. Because it was Michael's decision, it was Michael's money. You know, I took my shot at what
I was asked to do, and that was it.
Q. And did you ever once, after you took that shot, consider approaching Mr. Jackson again and
saying, "You know what? You really shouldn't be taking Dr. Conrad Murray with you"?
A. No.
Q. Did that -- did anyone ever ask you to do that at any point after you tried that one time?
A. No.

Q. Were you ever involved in any conversation about the hiring of Dr. Conrad Murray after that
initial conversation with Mr. Jackson up until the time of Mr. Jackson's passing?
A. No.
Q. Did you ever discuss Dr. Conrad Murray's going to London ever again with Mr. Jackson?
A. No.
Q. Did you ever discuss the advancing of monies to pay for Dr. Conrad Murray going to London
with Mr. Jackson at any point after that first conversation with Mr. Jackson?
A. No.
Q. At the point that you had that conversation, had you ever met Dr. Conrad Murray?
A. No.
Q. At that point in time, can you recall whether you even knew his name?
A. No.
Q. Now, you said that you'd never been involved in such a situation where an artist has
demanded that they bring their doctor. Are you aware of any time where AEG Live has been
involved in a situation where a doctor has accompanied an artist?
A. No.
Q. Now, did you come to understand whether there was any further contact between anyone at
AEG
Live and Dr. Conrad Murray? Strike that. Did you come to understand whether or not there was
any further contact between anyone at AEG Live and Mr. Jackson in regards to the hiring of Dr.
Conrad Murray to accompany Mr. Jackson to the 02 in London?
A. Other than Paul's conversation?
Q. That's what I -- anyone after you.
A. Paul.
Q. And by that, who do you mean?
A. Paul Gongaware.

Q. And what did you understand, sir?

A. I understood that Paul -- that the doctor had asked for a $5 million buyout of his -- he had
three clinics operating in three different states, and he had asked for a $5 million buyout of
those clinics in order to be able to do this, in addition to getting paid to be on the road. That's
what I was told. And then I mean, that, obviously, was -- we could not afford to pay -- we could
not afford to pay that.
Mr. Panish: Sorry.
Phillips: The production could not bear that much of -- that much of a cost, and Paul told
me he dealt with Michael and that Michael said, "We're going to pay him 150 a month, and
don't worry, I'll make sure he takes it," or something like that.
Q. And do you understand that to be one conversation, two conversations, or more?
Mr. Panish: No foundation.
Judge: Overruled.
A. I understand from Paul it was one conversation that happened after I called them and said I
failed.
Q. So there was one conversation after you failed. Did you have an understanding as to
whether there was a conversation with Mr. Gongaware before you failed?
A. Other than you told me he had spoken to Michael before.
Q. Okay. Now, did you ever have any discussion with Dr. Conrad Murray about an independent
contractor agreement?

A. No.
Q. Did you ever have any discussion with Dr. Conrad Murray about any agreement at all?
A. No.
Q. Did you ever have any discussions with Timm Woolley about an independent contractor
agreement
For Dr. Conrad Murray?
A. No.
Q. Did you ever have any discussions with Michael Jackson about an independent contractor
agreement for Dr. Conrad Murray?
A. No.
Q. Now, you indicated that you were aware that there was this idea of the $5 million payment.
Were you surprised by that when you heard it?
A. The size -- the size of the number, yes.
Q. You were surprised by the size?
A. Yes.
Q. And did that make you worried or suspicious about this Conrad Murray?
A. Not -- no.
Q. Why not?
A. It made me think that he didn't need the job and he was successful.
Q. But couldn't it mean that he really needed the job and wasn't successful, that he asked for $5
million?
A. Well, it could have, but it's not what I thought.
Q. What did you think?
A. I just thought he was hugely successful, and in order for him to leave his practices to just be
Michael Jackson's physician full time, this is what it was going to take.
Q. Did that make you concerned about his morals?

A. No.
Q. Did it make you concerned about his ethics?
A. No.
Q. Did it make you concerned that he wouldn't be a good doctor?
A. I had none of those thoughts, no.
Q. Now, did you come to understand at any point that Dr. Conrad Murray was willing to accept
less than $5 million to go with Mr. Jackson?
A. Yes.
Q. And what did you come to understand?
A. I came to understand from Paul Gongaware that Michael got him to accept the 150,000 a
month,
plus expenses.
Q. Now, did that seem like a large amount of money to you for a doctor to pay -- for a doctor to
be paid?
A. It -- it seemed large mostly because he would have to have some kind of reciprocal
reciprocity on his license to practice over there. But considering what doctors make, and it was
full time, 24/7, not just on show days, but the whole period of time, I I thought it was high, but
not crazy high, no.
Q. Was it a figure that gave you any pause and made you concerned about Dr. Conrad Murray?
A. No.
Q. Did it make you concerned that for $150,000 a month, he might be being unethical?
A. No.
Q. Did it make you think that for $150,000 a month, he might do something that a doctor
shouldn't do?
A. No.
Q. Did those thoughts ever enter your mind?

A. Never.
Q. Did you ever have a conversation with anyone in that regard?
A. No.
Q. Did it ever make you wonder what kind of treatments Dr. Conrad Murray was providing to Mr.
Jackson?
A. I didn't even know if he was treating him. I had no idea at that point in time.
Q. So you didn't know what that meant?
A. No.
Q. Did you ever pause to wonder?
A. I didn't even think about it because I had, really, nothing to do with the doctor.
Q. Now, as a result of this, did you ever believe that you, Randy Phillips, had done anything that
would result in the hiring of Dr. Conrad Murray?
A. No.
Q. Did you ever believe that you had hired Dr. Conrad Murray?
A. No.
Q. Have you ever heard anyone say that you hired Conrad Murray, you, Randy Phillips?
A. Multiple times in this trial, yes.
Q. Okay. Have you ever thought that might be true?
A. Never.
Q. Was there ever a point in time that you believed -- let's say up until the point of Mr. Jackson's
passing, was there ever a time that you thought that Dr. Conrad Murray had been hired to go to
London to be Mr. Jackson's physician?
A. Would you repeat --
Q. Up until his passing, was there ever a point that you thought he had been hired and -- to go
to London to be Mr. Jackson's physician, and that AEG Was going to advance him the monies?
Do you think that deal had been struck?

A. No.
Q. Was there ever a point in time where you thought that deal had been struck?
A. No.
Q. Did anyone ever tell you that that deal had been struck and finalized?
A. No.
Q. And was there ever a point that you thought it had been?
A. No.
Q. Now, last week you were shown ten seconds of an interview on Sky News. Do you
remember that?
A. Yes.
Mr. Putnam: And that was exhibit 378. And if I may play that, your honor?
Judge: You may, 378.
(video of Phillips on Sky News is played)
Q. Now, is that the entire interview?
A. No.
Q. Does -- and can you recall as we sit here today if there's a longer interview that that's just a
snippet taken out of?
A. Correct, yes, for sure.
Q. Uh-huh. And was this an interview that you gave to Sky News?
A. I think it was shortly after Michael's passing, yes.
Mr. Putnam: So shortly after Michael's passing. Any objection to playing more of that

interview?
Mr. Panish: Depends on what you've got to play. You've got to show me.
Mr. Putnam: I'm showing the interview that you took that clip out of.
Mr. Panish: I don't remember what the whole thing said. But show me it. You haven't
shown it to me yet.
Mr. Putnam: Well, you've seen it. You took the clip out of it. This is the problem we talked
about, your honor. We said for completeness, one should be able to show the whole
thing. You said in our case, we'd be able to show the rest of it.
Mr. Panish: I just want to look at what he's going to show. I don't want to have a debate
with him about it.
Judge: Are you showing the entire thing?
Mr. Putnam: That interview.
Mr. Panish: I don't know what's in --
Judge: How long is it?
Mr. Putnam: About 40 seconds, your honor.
Judge: Was it produced in discovery?
Mr. Bloss: Actually, your honor, the entire clip is over ten minutes. So if they're going to
play a snippet of the excerpt, if you will --
Mr. Panish: Can we look at the whole ten minutes?
Mr. Putnam: What they're arguing is that as a matter of completeness, we should play the
whole thing. That's what we argued before.
Mr. Panish: Excuse me.
Judge: Just show him the transcript. Do you have a transcript of whatever clip you're
going to show, and then --
Mr. Panish: It's ten minutes.
Mr. Putnam: Is that the entire thing?

Mr. Panish: Can we go to sidebar?

Mr. Putnam: We can give him the CD. We don't have a transcript right now.
Judge: Let's go to sidebar.
(sidebar)
(back to open court)
Judge: Sorry we took a little time in there. I think we're ready to go. We have a stipulation
before we play the excerpt. Mr. Panish?
Mr. Panish: So they're going to play a portion of an answer given by Mr. Phillips in the
Sky News
interview which occurred on -- what's the date?
Mr. Putnam: July 1st, 2009.
Mr. Panish: -- July 1st, 2009, and that the entire interview is approximately ten minutes. Is
that right, counsel?
Mr. Putnam: Yes, that's what I understand.
Mr. Panish: So you stipulate to that?
Mr. Putnam: Uh-huh.
Mr. Panish: Is that a "Yes"?
Mr. Putnam: Well, you guys told me that's how long it is, so yes, I'll stipulate to that.
Mr. Panish: Your honor, I didn't say how long it is. Ms. Robinson -- why does he do that?
Ms. Robinson just told us, your honor, that it was ten minutes, and I asked her how long
it was.

Judge: Maybe Ms. Stebbins will stipulate.

Ms. Stebbins: Everyone will stipulate that it's approximately ten minutes, a little more, a
little less.
Judge: Thank you. Let's play it.
The clerk: Your honor, what's the exhibit number?
Mr. Putnam: This exhibit number will be 13409. And before we show it -- what you recall
we showed beforehand was -- what was shown last week to you was about ten seconds.
Now we're going to show you a longer portion of that same answer. Okay?
Phillips: Thank you.
(video clip of Phillips on Sky News is played)
Q. And that last little bit is the clip you were shown last week, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. Now, the date of this was July 1st, 2009. So that would be six or seven days after Mr.
Jackson's
passing?
A. Correct.
Q. And does that comport with what you've actually testified to since that time as to what your
understanding was at the time?
A. Yes.
Q. And I have to ask you, then, was it correct when it was just "we hired him"? Did you hire Dr.
Conrad Murray?
A. No.
Q. And did you ever think that you hired Dr. Conrad Murray?

A. No.
Q. And did you think you hired Dr. Conrad Murray when you said that on July 1st, 2009?
A. No.
Q. And does the context you were just shown, the entirety of the answer, give you a fuller
explanation of what you actually understood at the time?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you have an understanding as to whether AEG Live ever gave Dr. Conrad Murray any
money?
A. No.
Q. Is that a no, you don't have an understanding, or no, that you didn't give him any money?
A. No, my understanding is we didn't give him any money.
Q. Okay. And did you ever believe that you had given him any money?
A. No.
Q. Did anybody ever tell you otherwise?
A. No.
Q. And going on from there, at the same time you were being asked about that, what you meant
by "we hired him" when you were shown that ten seconds of the Sky News interview last week,
there are a number of questions asking about all the articles where you're quoted as saying "we
hired him."
Do you remember being asked all those questions, all those articles at a time where you're
quoted as saying "we hired him"?
A. I remember that.
Q. Were you shown all of these articles?
A. No.
Q. Were you shown all of these articles that said that you hired him?
A. No.

Q. Are you aware of yourself being quoted in articles at the time saying that you hired Dr.
Murray?
A. No.
Q. You're aware of this interview, correct?
A. Yes, yes.
Q. Did you give other interviews at the time that you can recall. And by this time, I mean July
1st, 2009.
A. Not that I recall.
Q. Are you aware of any other interview where you said, "we hired him"?
A. No.
Q. And if I were to just use those three words, "we hired him," does that give a full account of
the situation between AEG Live, Michael Jackson and the possibility of Dr. Conrad Murray going
as his
physician to the -- to the tour at the 02?
A. Not at all, no.
Q. Now, last week when you were asked about all these articles, you said the following. You
said that you may have told other news outlets about the gist, and that was the word you used,
"gist," of AEG
Live's involvement. What did you mean by "gist"?
A. Kind of like a summary or back story to what would have been our involvement.
Q. And are you aware of any one of them quoting you as saying, "we hired Dr. Conrad Murray"?
A. No.
Q. Now, you talked about -- you've discussed your having a conversation with Mr. Jackson
about the
possibility of Dr. Conrad Murray coming on tour. Did a point in time come where you actually
met Dr. Conrad Murray?

A. Yes.
Q. When did you first meet Dr. Conrad Murray?
A. Sometime in June. I -- I'm not sure if it was the first or second week of June.
Q. And that's 2009?
A. Correct.
Q. And you're not certain as to when exactly it happened, is that correct?
A. No, I'm not.
Q. So if I came and told you it happened June 1st, is that a possibility?
A. It's a possibility.
Q. If I came and told you June 16th, is that a possibility?
A. Yes.
Q. Is that -- does the fact that you don't remember the exact date -- does that mean maybe you
didn't meet him?
A. No. I remember meeting -- I remember the meeting, I just don't remember the date it took
place.
Q. And tell me about that. Where did you meet Dr. Conrad Murray --
A. I met --
Q. -- for the first time?
A. The first time I met Dr. Murray, in the living room of Michael Jackson's house on Carolwood
Drive.
Q. So the first time was on Carolwood Drive, Mr. Jackson's house, and there's no prior time that
you
had a meeting with Dr. Conrad Murray?
A. No.
Q. Had you ever talked to Dr. Conrad Murray prior to that first time you met him?
A. No.

Q. So the first time you -- and did you talk to him the first time you met him?
A. At the meeting, yes, I did.
Q. All right. So the first time you met or ever spoke with Dr. Conrad Murray was at Mr. Jackson's
home on Carolwood Drive?
A. That is correct.
Q. And do you have an understanding as to how this meeting came to be?
A. I'm not sure who arranged the meeting. I think it was at the behest of Kenny Ortega.
Q. But you're just not sure?
A. I'm not sure.
Q. Did you call the meeting?
A. It's possible. I just don't remember.
Q. And did you have an understanding as to what this meeting was to be about?
A. It was about Michael's weight and nutrition, and, also, exactly what Dr. Murray was going to
do for Michael when they were over in London in terms of keeping him healthy and his stamina
up and stuff like that.
Q. Stamina, weight, nutrition. And there was a lot of back and forth about this last week. So --
and his health generally, is that correct?
A. That is correct. I mean, nutrition is part of your health, yes.
Q. Was there any specific health concern other than stamina, nutrition and weight that you recall
being the subject of this meeting?
A. No.
Q. Was this -- was the subject of this meeting that Mr. Jackson had a problem with drug use?
A. No.
Q. Was drug use discussed at this meeting?
A. No.
Q. Was drug use discussed as a reason for -- to have the meeting?

A. No.
Q. What about abuse of alcohol? Was -- was abuse of alcohol something that this meeting was
about?
A. No.
Q.
Was that something discussed at the meeting?
A. No.
Q. And who was at this meeting, if you can recall?
A. I remember it was Paul Gongaware, Kenny Ortega, Frank Dileo, me, Dr. Murray and Michael
Jackson.
Q. So this meeting where you're discussing stamina, health, weight, that's a meeting that Mr.
Jackson was at?
A. Yes.
Q. Was he at all of the meeting, or did he come in for a portion of it, or was --
A. No, he was there the whole time.
Q. He was there the whole time?
A. Uh-huh.
Q. So there's a meeting at Carolwood, Mr. Jackson was there, Dr. Conrad Murray was there,
yourself, Paul Gongaware, Kenny Ortega and Frank Dileo.
A. Right.
Q. And there was never a portion, at least that you can recall, where Mr. Jackson wasn't there,
correct?
Judge: I'm sorry. You said there's never been an occasion where he met Conrad Murray
outside the presence of Michael Jackson?

Mr. Putnam: I would ask that next. In this meeting, was there ever a time Mr. Jackson left
so that everybody else was there but not Mr. Jackson.
Judge: I see. Thank you.
Q. Did that ever happen?
A. No.
Q. And in this meeting, can you recall at all as we sit here today what the impetus for this
meeting was? Was there some concern that had been raised?
A. Well, I -- I was concerned about Michael's weight personally. Kenny -- I believe Kenny
needed him
to come to rehearsals more often. Things like that.
Q. Now, was -- at this point in time, did you have a concern that Mr. Jackson might not be able
to
perform for the 02 concerts?
A. No.
Q. Do you recall whether at this time -- whatever time it was, whenever this happened, that by
this time, there was a concern that Mr. Jackson had any problems that would result in his
inability to perform the shows in July of 2009?
A. No.
Q. Did anybody raise the possibility at this point that it might have to be postponed in some
measure?
A. No.
Q. Was there any concern that he wouldn't perform all 50?
A. No.
Q. Was there -- was this an emergency meeting?

A. No.
Q. Was there -- can you recall there ever being any -- strike that. A. Term was used in your --
you were
previously asked about this -- of an intervention. Was this an intervention?
A. No. I used -- I used that term because to me, it meant all of us getting together and meeting
with
Michael. But it wasn't an intervention in the often-used sense of drug intervention or anything
like
That, no.
Q. And was there any concern that anyone had raised to you at this point that Mr. Jackson was
using
drugs at all?
A. No.
Q. Had you even heard the word propofol at this point?
A. No.
Q. And what about any prescription drugs? Was there any concern about prescription drugs at
this
point?
A. No.
Q. Now, at this point in time, you said that Dr. Conrad Murray was there. Did you have an
understanding at that point as to whether Dr. Conrad Murray had signed the contract with AEG
Live?
A. I had no knowledge one way or the other at that point.
Q. And did you have any understanding at that time whether he had signed a contract with AEG
Live
productions?

A. No.
Q. Was that just -- was that something you were involved with at all?
A. No, I wasn't involved in it so I wouldn't know.
Q. And did you have an understanding at this period in time when you first met Dr. Conrad
Murray as to why he was at the meeting?
A. Because he was Michael's personal physician.
Q. Did you have an understanding as to any other reason why he might be there?
A. No.
Q. At this meeting, did you -- did you speak at this meeting?
A. Yeah, yes.
Q. Did you speak with Dr. Conrad Murray at the meeting?
A. Yes.
Q. Can you remember what you discussed with Dr. Conrad Murray?
A. Just about Michael's controlling his weight so he wasn't losing too much weight while he was
rehearsing.
Q. Did you discuss anything else with Dr. Conrad Murray that you can recall?
A. No. I did a lot of listening, but that's -- that was my only agenda for the meeting. Kenny's was
about rehearsals.
Q. And when you talked to Dr. Conrad Murray about this weight issue, Michael Jackson was
present?
A. Yes.
Q. Can you recall him saying anything?
A. Oh, yes.
Q. What do you recall him saying?
A. Michael said that he always had this problem keeping on weight his whole life, that's why he
was always thin, and that when he performs on a concert, he'll sometimes lose as much as two

to four
pounds -- his words, two to four pounds a performance, and that's why he needed Conrad
Murray there, to deal with his nutrition and stuff like that.
Q. Now, did that sound fishy to you?
A. That he lost weight --
Q. Uh-huh.
A. No, no.
Q. Did that response make you suspicious as to the fact that Dr. Conrad Murray was involved?
A. No.
Q. Did it make you suspicious as to why Michael Jackson wanted Dr. Conrad Murray?
A. No.
Q. Did you think it was inappropriate that you were talking to Mr. Jackson's doctor about Mr.
Jackson's weight?
A. No, I didn't think that was covered by any kind of doctor/patient privilege. Plus, Michael was
there.
Q. So this conversation you were having, there was never a point where Mr. Jackson wasn't
there?
A. No.
Q. And do you remember anything else that Mr. Jackson said at this meeting?
A. He -- he agreed with Conrad about these -- these high-nutrient shakes and how important
they were for him. And he usually went back to the hotel or the house, in this case, and would
eat after the show and try to -- and put back the weight, but that he had a high metabolism and
he burned through calories very quickly.
Q. Did Dr. Conrad Murray indicate to you anything else that he was doing for Mr. Jackson at that
time?
A. No. At that meeting, I don't know who brought it up, but they said -- either Michael or Dr.

Murray said that Michael was also working out and working on his stamina with Lou Ferrigno.
Q. Did -- did Dr. Conrad Murray say anything else that he was doing in reference to his patient,
Michael Jackson?
A. No, not that I remember, no.
Q. Did he say that he was giving him any drugs?
A. No.
Q. Did he say that he was coming over to Mr. Jackson's house on a nightly basis?
A. No.
Q. Did he say that he was giving him propofol?
A. No.
Q. If he had said those things, do you think you'd remember it as you sit here today?
A. Oh, absolutely.
Q. Was there anything that you wanted to ask Dr. Conrad Murray about Mr. Jackson's health
that you
didn't ask because you thought it was inappropriate?
A. No.
Q. So there was nothing that you were thinking about at this point in time that you wanted to ask
but
you didn't?
A. No. Kenny was concerned about the rehearsal schedule, and I was concerned that Michael
wasn't -- might have been losing weight.
Q. Did you ever have any meeting with Michael Jackson where you discussed substance
abuse?
A. No.
Q. Did you ever have a meeting or conversation of any type with Dr. Conrad Murray when you
discussed substance abuse?

A. No.
Q. Did you ever have a conversation with Dr. Conrad Murray where you ever discussed his
treatment of Michael Jackson?
A. No.
Q. Did you ever have a conversation with Michael Jackson, other than the one you've testified
to, where you talked about Dr. Conrad Murray's treatment of him?
A. No.
Q. Do you remember whether this was a positive or a negative meeting?
A. It was a -- it was a very positive meeting.
Q. Was it contentious?
A. No.
Q. As you sit here today, can you recall anything out of the ordinary that happened at that
meeting?
A. No.
Mr. Putnam: Your honor, should we take our break?
Judge: I was going to take it at 3:10, but --
Mr. Putnam: That's fine. Whatever you like. I'll go to another topic, if you like.
Judge: Let's not. Let's take ten minutes. Can we take ten? Thank you.
(break)
(court resumes)

Judge: You may continue.

Mr. Putnam: Thank you, your honor.
Q. Mr. Phillips, we were talking about this first time where you met Dr. Conrad Murray. And this
was at Michael Jackson's Carolwood home?
A. That's correct.
Q. And, Mr. Phillips, do you normally carry business cards?
A. Of course, yes.
Q. Why do you say, "of course"?
A. Well, in what I do, I carry business cards.
Q. Do you have them on you now?
A. Yes.
Q. And you say it's what you do. Why, because of what you do, do you carry business cards?
A. Because I meet people who might want to get in contact with me, and I will -- would certainly
give
them my business card. And on certain instances, I'd also write my cell phone on the back
because I haven't printed it on the card.
Q. Is that an abnormal thing for you to do?
A. No.
Q. Is it a normal thing for you to do?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you have an understanding as to whether or not you gave Dr. Conrad Murray your
business card
When you first met him at the Carolwood home?
A. I don't remember doing it, but I'm sure I did, because it would be -- it would be the normal

thing that I would do in a meeting like that with someone for the first time.
Q. And this was the first time you met him, correct?
A. That is correct.
Q. How many business cards do you give out in a month?
A. On an average?
Q. Yes.
A. Five. Some months, there could be none, some months, there could be ten. But five.
Q. Do you believe the fact that -- you were asked questions about your business card being
found with Dr. Conrad Murray, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you remember those questions?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you believe the fact that Dr. Murray had your business card means that you hired him?
A. No.
Q. Do you think it means that Michael Jackson didn't hire him?
A. No.
Q. Do you think there's something about the fact that Dr. Conrad Murray had your business card
that has any meaning other than the fact that he had your business card?
A. And that I gave it to him, no.
Q. What about the fact that it was found in his car? Does that have some meaning to you?
A. None whatsoever.
Q. What about the fact that it was found in his car the day after Mr. Jackson passed? Did that
have some meaning to you that I'm unaware of?
A. None whatsoever.
Q. And you believe you gave him your business card, right?
A. Correct. If he had it, I gave it to him, yes.

Q. Now I want to show you that exhibit that you were shown, exhibit 665, dash, 121. And you
see that -- this here. Can you tell us what that is again?
A. That was my cell phone during the This Is It process.
Q. And if I represent to you that this is on the back of the card -- do both sides, Pam. There's the
front of the card. Go below, see what it says below there. "assistant" or "assistance, Arlyne."
who is Arlyne?
A. Arlyne is my executive assistant.
Q. And is that her number?
A. Yes, that's the -- the office number. That's actually the office number, it's my main office
number.
Q. And is that your writing, as well?
A. No, because I wouldn't have spelled her name wrong.
Q. Okay. So that's not her proper spelling?
A. No.
Q. So someone wrote "assistance, Arlyne, (323) 930-5701"?
A. Correct.
Q. You didn't write that?
A. No.
Q. And then on the back -- you'll see there's no other writing on the front of the card, is that
correct?
What's on the upper left?
A. "Item number 18."
Q. You don't know what that is?
A. No.

Mr. Panish: I'll stipulate it's LAPD.

Mr. Bloss: This handwriting is LAPD, your honor. It's Detective Martinez.
Mr. Panish: It's an LAPD booking evidence number. Stipulate to that.
Judge: All right. Is there a stipulation that's what that is?
Mr. Putnam: It is. Okay.
Judge: Okay. All right. There's a stipulation that's what that is.
Q. And then the back of it, you see "(310) 701-4800 cell"?
A. That's my handwriting, yes.
Q. Before you were shown this, do you remember a number of questions asking if you had
given Dr. Conrad Murray your home number?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you understand him to be asking whether your home number was on your card?
A. I thought it might have been at the time I answered the questions.
Q. Now that you've seen this exhibit, is your home number anywhere on that?
A. No.
Q. Do you recall ever giving Dr. Conrad Murray your home number?
A. No.
Q. We haven't gotten to it yet, but there comes a time, and you've testified to it, that you had a
conversation by telephone with Dr. Conrad Murray, correct?
A. That is correct.
Q. And as you recall, that conversation was on your home phone?
A. Correct.
Q. Do you have any understanding as to how -- do you have any understanding how Dr. Conrad

Murray came to have your home phone number?

A. I have an assumption.
Mr. Putnam: Tell me the assumption you have.
Mr. Panish: There's no foundation, speculation.
Judge: Sustained.
Q. Do you have an understanding as to how he got your home phone number?
Mr. Panish: Same -- same objection.
Judge: Sustained.
Mr. Panish: Foundation.
Q. You don't know how he got your home phone number? That's what I'm asking.
A. I don't know exactly how he got it.
Q. Okay. Great. But you don't recall giving it to him, right?
A. That is correct.
Q. Is there anything odd about the idea that he might call you at home, to you?
A. Not really, no.
Q. Is there something tricky about being called at home?
A. No.
Q. But it's not on your card, is it, sir?
A. No.
Q. Now, last week, I think it was Thursday, you said that it might have been from a production
list. Do you remember giving that testimony?

A. Yes.
Q. Were you speculating then as to whether it was from a production list?
A. Correct, I was speculating.
Q. So you don't know, correct?
A. I don't know.
Q. Do you even know if there was a production list for This Is It?
A. Well, I don't -- at some point, there would have been, or would be, but I don't know if it was
prepared prior to leaving for London.
Q. So you don't know?
A. I don't know.
Q. So when you talked about that last week, you were just saying that's a possibility?
Mr. Panish: Well, excuse me, your honor. I'm going to object. It's leading, it's suggestive
of the answer.
Judge: Sustained.
Q. Can you tell me why you said -- last week you mentioned a production list as a possibility?
Why is that?
Mr. Panish: Objection, he didn't say possibility.
Judge: Sustained.
Mr. Panish: Objection, misstates it, no foundation, speculation.
Judge: Sustained.
Q. Do you remember testifying as to a production list last week?

A. Yes.
Q. And with that testimony, what -- did you have an understanding at that time as to whether or
not there was a production list?
A. I wasn't aware, I wasn't sure.
Q. So you had this first meeting with Dr. Conrad Murray. You understand Dr. Conrad Murray had
your card. After that, did a time come where you had -- where you saw Dr. Conrad Murray
again?
A. Yes.
Q. And where was that, sir?
A. It was at the Forum.
Q. And what can you recall about that -- seeing him at the Forum?
A. He was sitting at the -- there was a -- what we call a production table, and Kenny Ortega was
at the table, various other people working on the production. And then at the end, he was sitting
in a chair at the table.
Q. When you say a "production table," what do you mean?
A. I mean just a table with legs that fold out that they put in the middle of the arena floor so the
stage was in front of him.
Q. As you saw him sitting there, did you talk to him at all?
A. I went up and shook his hand, said, "Hi. How are you," a salutation.
Q. Do you remember anything else about that encounter?
A. No.
Q. Did you have any understanding as to why he was there?
A. I assume he came with Michael and Michael invited him. I don't know.
Q. So you don't know why he was there?
A. No.
Q. Did anybody tell you why he was there?

A. No, no one told me that.

Q. Okay. Did you --
A. But it was after we had the meeting where Kenny was talking to him about rehearsals, so I
assume
he came with Michael.
Q. But you just don't know?
A. I don't know.
Q. And did you ever have a -- did you ever ask anybody why he was there?
A. No.
Q. And how long was that entire encounter between you and Mr. Conrad Murray, the second
encounter?
A. It could have been 15 seconds.
Q. Was anybody with you?
A. No. I just went there myself.
Q. And then after this, did there come to be another time where you had any encounter with Dr.
Conrad Murray?
A. Yes.
Q. And what was that, sir?
A. That was on June 20th.
Q. And what was that encounter, very briefly? What happened on June 20th?
A. On June 20th, we had a meeting at Michael's house with Conrad Murray, Michael Jackson,
Kenny Ortega, myself.
Q. And that was on June 20th, and we got a lot of testimony about a series of emails on the 19th
and
The 20th. I want to ask you about those first before we get there. So between your seeing Dr.
Conrad Murray at the Forum and then this meeting on June 20th -- did you say where that

occurred?
A. On the 20th?
Q. Uh-huh.
A. At the house, at Carolwood.
Q. So between these two times, was there any other time that you saw Dr. Conrad Murray?
A. No.
Q. June 19th -- do you remember looking at those emails from June 19th?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you remember a "re" line "trouble at the Front"?
A. Yes.
Q. Let's talk about those. June 19th. Were you at rehearsals on June 19th?
A. No.
Q. At that point in time, did you have an understanding as to where those rehearsals were?
A. June 19th, they would have been at the Forum, I believe.
Q. And did you come to understand whether Mr. Jackson rehearsed that day?
A. From the emails, I was told he came to rehearsal but was sent home.
Q. And that's June 19th, right?
A. Correct.
Q. Now I want to ask you a question about up until June 19th.
So we've talked today about the idea that you started to have discussions in June 2008. It is
now -- June or July, pardon me, 2008. It is now a year later.
A. Right.
Q. It is June 19th, 2009. Up until that point in time, that day, did you have any concerns about
Mr. Jackson's health?
A. No.
Q. Had anyone expressed to you any concerns that Mr. Jackson might be misusing drugs?

A. No.
Q. Had anyone expressed any concerns to you that Mr. Jackson might be using propofol?
A. I -- at that time, I didn't know what that was.
Q. Up until this point of June 19th, did you have any concerns that Mr. Jackson might be
mentally
unstable?
A. No.
Q. Up until this point in time, other than weight, did you have any concerns about Mr. Jackson's
health?
A. No, other than that one observation that we haven't gotten to.
Q. And what do you mean by "that one observation"?
A. At the meeting we had at the Carolwood house. It was a production meeting, Paul was there,
I was there, Michael was there, and I forgot who else was there. And I think Kenny might have
been there. I'm not sure. At that meeting, I had noticed that Michael was staring -- he was sitting
on the couch, and he was staring into the dining room.
Q. Have we talked about this already? What meeting is this?
A. This is one of the meetings at the house. I don't know exactly which meeting it was, but it was
one of the meetings at the house.
Q. And what happened at that meeting?
A. That meeting, when it -- we went over a bunch of things, and when it ended -- Conrad Murray
was in that meeting. Okay? So that would have been -- no. Dr. Murray wasn't in that meeting.
He wasn't in that meeting, because I told him about it after -- afterwards at the first meeting.
Okay.
Q. So what is this meeting? Is this -- you just mentioned this meeting. This meeting you had a
concern about in this year time, what was that meeting? What occurred that gave you concern?
A. It was just a production meeting. Paul was going over a bunch of items that he needed

answers for
on the production, and I just noticed that during the meeting, Michael was staring out into the
dining room, he didn't -- he wasn't really engaged like I was used to him being engaged.
Q. And did you come to understand why he wasn't engaged?
A. I asked Michael Amir Williams was something wrong, and he said that he had just come from
Dr. Klein.
Q. Okay. So that's the time that you understood that -- you felt there was a problem because he
had been to see Dr. Klein?
A. Correct.
Q. Got it. All right. So -- now I get it. So except for -- I'm going to ask you about that. So except
for this meeting where you understood he had seen Dr. Klein, in that year period of summer
2008 up until June 19th, 2009 -- other than that one meeting, did you ever have a concern that
Mr. Jackson might be using drugs?
A. No.
Q. Did you have any concern that he might have a health issue?
A. No.
Q. Did you ever have a concern that he might be using propofol?
A. No.
Q. And other than the fact that he was thin, did you have any concerns about his health
whatsoever?
A. No.
Q. And other than that meeting where you learned that he had seen Dr. Klein, was there any
concerns expressed to you that you can recall as you sit here today up until June 19th about
any of those items? Drugs, his health, anything of that nature?
A. No.
Q. And then June 19th happens, right?

A. Correct.
Q. And that -- was that June 19th something different than the prior year?
A. Yes.
Q. And how was it different, sir?
A. I received a number of somewhat alarming emails ostensibly from john Hougdahl, who was
the
production manager on "this is it," and he sent them at the request of Kenny Ortega.
Mr. Putnam: So let me talk about some of those, if we can. First I'm going to ask for one
you've already seen, which is exhibit 665, dash, 0092 through 93. May I approach, your
honor?
Judge: Yes.
Mr. Putnam: For the record, it's a four-page document, exhibit 665-92 through 95. And it's
a series of emails, and the "re" line is "trouble at the Front."
Q. Do you recognize having been asked questions about this document before, sir?
A. Yes, I do.
Q. Let's start -- first let me ask you something. There were -- there have been a number of
chains called "trouble at the Front." are these all the same series of emails, or are they a
different series of emails?
A. No. They're all the same series of emails with different participants in terms of the receipt of
the chain.
Q. So -- and what is the -- can you see here the -- the first email in those various chains of
emails?
A. Yes.

Q. Can you identify it for me?

A. Oh, you're talking about going back to the back --
Q. Just look in this and see if you can see the original email that resulted in these various emails
being sent to various people.
A. Well, in what you handed me, the -- the last email was an email from me to Kenny Ortega.
Q. The last one in this series is, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And what time is that email? Do you see the date of it?
A. It's June 20th at 1:48 p.M.
Q. Is that the first email? Is that the first email, June 20th?
A. No, no, no. There were emails to me.
Q. Okay. So that's what I'm going to ask -- if I could help direct you, if you go to the first page,
look towards the bottom --
A. Okay. Right.
Q. Is that the first email?
A. I believe so, yes.
Q. And that's an email from john Hougdahl, Bugzee, to Paul Gongaware and Randy Phillips,
correct?
A. Correct.
Q. And that's the one "I'm not being a drama queen"?
A. Correct.
Q. So let me look at that for a second, if I may. It says "I'm not being a drama queen here.
Kenny asked me to notify you." It goes on from there. Right?
A. Yes.
Q. First of all, in this series here, the emails above it have dates and times that occur after that
email, correct?

A. Correct.
Q. And if you look at pages 2, 3 and 4, there are also emails that have dates and times that
follow, that go after that initial email, is that correct?
A. Correct.
Q. So unlike a number of emails that we've seen, the first email is not the first in the chain or
last in a chain, it's right in the middle, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. Do you have any idea why?
A. No.
Q. But you do recognize this one in the middle with the earlier time and date to be the original
email from this "trouble at the Front"?
A. That's correct.
Q. And if you look at it, what is the time on that email?
A. The time on this email is 1422. That would be 2:22 in the afternoon.
Q. Say that again? I'm sorry.
A. 2:22 in the afternoon, would that be -- no. It says 2214, so that would be 10:14.
Q. And we know there's a problem with times on a number of these emails, but if that were
correct,
That means this would be sent at 10:14 in the evening?
A. That's correct.
Q. So -- and do you remember first hearing about this trouble at the front on the evening of the
19th?
A. Yes.
Q. So before the evening of June 19th, before receiving this email, had you any concerns about
Mr. Jackson's health?
A. No.

Q. Did you have any concerns before receiving this about Mr. Jackson's mental health?
A. No.
Q. And what about his -- his well being? Any concerns at this point?
A. No.
Q. Once you receive this "trouble at the front" email and the various chains that follow, did that
change? Did you have a concern?
A. Of course.
Q. Why do you say, "of course"?
A. Because these were alarming to me at the time I received them.
Q. Now, you explained who Bugzee is, correct?
A. What?
Q. You explained who Bugzee was, right?
A. Yes. He was the production manager for "this is it."
Q. What I'm going to do is I'm going to ask you -- I'm going to go through various of the chains
and ask you about various things that you haven't been asked about already. Okay? The first
one I'm going to ask about is here, and the one that goes above it. All right? And that has a time
of 22:33:52. So if it's a correct time, it would 10:33:52?
A. Correct.
Q. It's from you to Tim Leiweke?
A. Correct.
Q. Do you see where it says "We have a real problem here"?
A. Yes.
Q. What were you saying there?
A. I was forwarding Bugzee's email to Tim to let him know immediately that there might be some
kind
of issue happening.

Q. Why did you do that?

A. Because that would have been my responsibility to do my job.
Q. Would you have sent such an email if you didn't -- if you weren't concerned?
A. No.
Q. Would you have sent such an email if you didn't think there was a real problem?
A. No.
Q. And what was Mr. Leiweke's response?
A. His response to me was "let's set up a time for you and I to meet with him. I want Kenny in
the
meeting, as well."
Q. And did you have an understanding -- do you remember receiving that email?
A. Yes.
Q. And do you have an understanding -- strike that. What did you understand Mr. Leiweke to be
saying to you at the time?
A. He -- I believe he was saying -- asking me to set up a meeting with him, myself, Michael and
Kenny Ortega.
Q. And why would it be important to have Kenny Ortega there?
A. Because any -- Kenny was the source of the information in these emails that -- that Bugzee
was sending out.
Q. So this is an email between Tim Leiweke, yourself and Kenny Ortega, correct?
A. This -- the one above it, yes.
Q. And then right above that, there's an email
Mr. Panish: Excuse me, your honor.
Phillips: I'm going to object to that.

Judge: Well, is there -- is there any indication that --

Mr. Panish: No.
Judge: -- Ortega was on that email?
Mr. Panish: No.
Judge: You said it was between --
Mr. Panish: Exactly.
Phillips: It's on the one on the bottom.
Mr. Putnam: Next, your honor.
Mr. Panish: But counsel just asked if that was an email between Ortega, Leiweke and
Phillips, and I object because it misstates the document. As the Court has pointed out,
it's between Leiweke and Phillips.
Mr. Putnam: I may have asked it badly, your honor. What I was trying to ask is did he
have an understanding as to what Mr. Leiweke was requesting. That's what I was trying
to ask, your honor.
Judge: Okay. Well, let's clarify that, then.
Q. Did you have an understanding as to what Mr. Leiweke was requesting?
A. Yes.
Q. And what was that, sir?
A. That was to set up a meeting with him, myself, Kenny Ortega and Michael Jackson.
Q. And did you have an understanding if he was asking anybody else attend?
A. That -- from this email, my understanding was just the four of us.
Q. And did you ever have an understanding that he asked for anybody else to be in attendance?
A. No.
Q. Does he mention Dr. Conrad Murray in this email?

A. No.
Q. And what I was trying to say, so it was just you, Kenny Ortega and Tim Leiweke that would
be subject to his email at this point?
A. Correct.
Q. And then there's an email above it. What's the email above it, sir?
A. That's me forwarding this email chain to Kenny, asking Kenny if he'll do this with Tim and I,
meaning have a meeting.
Q. And I see there that there are a couple of different email addresses for Mr. Ortega.
A. Correct.
Q. Is that correct?
A. Correct.
Q. One of them is a business address and one of them is personal address?
A. I'm not sure. I just had two of them in my -- in my Blackberry when I was sending this, so I
sent it to both to make sure he got it because it was so important.
Q. And do you have an understanding as to -- as you sit here today as to why you sent this
email to
Mr. Kenny Ortega?
A. Because Tim had requested this meeting, and for Kenny to be involved in the meeting.
Q. Because you were trying to stop such a meeting from taking place?
A. No.
Q. At this point in time, do you recall whether you thought having such a meeting was a good
idea?
A. I didn't think about whether it was a good idea or a bad idea, I thought we needed to have a
meeting with Michael to find out what was going on and address Kenny's concerns, and if Tim
wanted to be in that meeting, and asked for it, I thought it was fine.
Q. But at this meeting,

Mr. Jackson is not mentioned, it's just you, Mr. Ortega and Mr. Leiweke?
A. No, no. He's saying meet with "him." "him" is Michael Jackson.
Q. I see. Okay. Did that meeting ever take place?
A. No.
Q. Did you ever have such a meeting with Mr. Leiweke and Mr. Ortega?
A. No.
Q. And why did that meeting not take place?
A. Because it got superceded by the meeting that did happen on the 20th.
Q. And that's the meeting you told me about a moment ago where Mr. Ortega was present and
Dr. Conrad Murray, Michael Jackson and yourself?
A. Correct.
Q. So the Leiweke one doesn't take place, and is there any meeting with Tim Leiweke that takes
place
As a result of these "trouble at the Front" emails?
A. No.
Q. So in terms of this chain of emails, there was no resulting meeting with anyone that took
place,
correct?
A. Correct.
Mr. Putnam: Another chain. Can I please, Pam, have exhibit 318. Again, this is another
exhibit you've been asked questions about. May I approach, your honor?
Judge: Yes, you may.
Mr. Putnam: And for the sake of the record, again, it's exhibit 318, pages 1 through 2.
Again, this is a chain of emails from the various recipients. I'm going to ask about it.

Q. Have you had time to look at it, sir?

A. Yes.
Q. All right. So in this chain, where do you find the first or the originating email?
A. The original email from "trouble at the front" is the last email on page 2.
Q. And if I go there, once again, this is from Bugzee?
A. Bugzee, john Hougdahl.
Q. Paul Gongaware and Randy Phillips, and the time is the same, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. It's 10:14:22?
A. Correct.
Q. And the date is the same, June 19?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, the responsive email is different. Who is this responsive email from?
A. The one right above it is from me.
Q. And who is that to, sir?
A. That's to Bugzee.
Q. What does it say?
A. "I know because I just got Kenny's message on my voicemail. What did he do when he
got there and what happened between him and KO? I have a meeting with MJ tomorrow
morning."
Q. And when you say here that you "have a meeting with MJ tomorrow morning," what meeting
are you talking about?
A. I was going to get up in the morning and set up a meeting with Michael when he got up.
Q. And at this point in time, are we still talking about that same requested meeting from Tim
Leiweke?

A. Correct.
Q. So -- and you say so you have a meeting tomorrow. Had you already set up that meeting?
A. No, no, because it was too late in the evening, I was going to do it in the morning.
Q. And the -- so you tell Bugzee that in response, you're going to set up a meeting?
A. Correct.
Q. If I have it correct, you've already sent something off to Mr. Ortega?
A. That's correct.
Q. You sent something off to Mr. Leiweke?
A. That's correct.
Q. And now you're sending something off to Mr. Hougdahl?
A. Yes, I'm responding to Bugzee.
Q. And it says "I know because I just got Kenny's message on my voicemail." what's that
referring to, sir?
A. That's referring to in addition to the email that Bugzee sent, Kenny had also left a message
on my voicemail and my cell phone.
Q. I'll ask you again -- well, as a result of that voicemail and these couple emails, were you less
concerned at this point than you were when you first received the email?
A. No. I was as concerned.
Q. Okay. So your concern wasn't abating, you hadn't suddenly decided it's not a problem?
A. No.
Q. Then there's a response right above that, you'll see.
A. Yes.
Q. And this is from Bugzee Hougdahl?
A. Correct.
Q. And you'll see there that's to you and to Mr. Gongaware.
A. Correct.

Q. And it goes on to talk about -- it says MJ came out and watched all the pyro demonstration
and endorsed the -- all the effects, then went into his room and asked Kenny, "you aren't going
to all kill the artist, are you?"
A. Correct.
Q. Do you have an understanding as to what was meant when he said he endorsed all the pyro
demonstration?
A. Yes. It meant they had run the pyro setup onstage for the production, Michael had watched it.
And it was intense enough for him so he agreed, approved it.
Q. And then it goes on to say "We assume this was a -- was a reference to pyro, and Kenny
said he was shaking, couldn't hold his knife and fork. Kenny had to cut his food for him
before he could eat, and then had to use his fingers," dot, dot, dot. "I don't know how
much embellishment there is to this, but Kenny said repeatedly that m.J. Was in no
shape to go onstage." Do you see that?
A. Yes.
Q. What do you understand that to mean to say, "I don't know how much embellishment there is
to this"?
A. Meaning he was told this by Kenny Ortega, so he did not witness it himself.
Q. So you understand you're getting a report from Mr. Hougdahl who is telling you about what
occurred, and that Mr. Ortega is concerned, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. And did the fact that Mr. Hougdahl said that he didn't know how much embellishment that
was now
in this email, did you suddenly seem less concerned?
A. No.
Q. So your concern remained the same?
A. Correct.

Q. Go to what's above that. You were asked a lot of questions about this. This is June 20th,
2009, 1:52 am. Could you read that to me, sir?
A. Yes. "Tim and I are going to see him tomorrow. However, I am not sure what the
problem is. Chemical or physiological?"
Q. Now, sir, who is Tim in that?
A. Tim Leiweke.
Q. And when it says "Tim and I are going to see him tomorrow," at this point in time, what did
that mean to you?
A. That meant that when I got up in the morning, I was going to call Michael amir to set up this
meeting with Tim and I, Kenny and Michael.
Q. So at this point in time, that meeting is still on?
A. I hadn't set it yet.
Q. Okay. And do you remember being asked about the end of this, the chemical or physiological
-- do you remember being asked about that portion of this email in your deposition?
A. Yes.
Q. And what do you recall being asked in your deposition?
A. What did I mean by chemical or physiological.
Q. And do you recall at that time what you meant?
A. I had -- I had trouble remembering the email and why I sent -- well, not why I sent it, but what
I was referring to when I said chemical, and so I wasn't 100 percent sure. Physiological, I knew
to mean
something physical.
Q. At this point in time when you sent this email, did you have any understanding as to what's
wrong with Mr. Michael Jackson?
A. No.
Q. Other than the emails and the voicemail that we've talked about just now, did you have --

was there any other information you had about what had happened with Mr. Michael Jackson at
the rehearsal at the Forum on June 19th, 2009?
A. No, because I wasn't there.
Q. So when you wrote this, the only information you had was the information that we've talked
about?
A. Correct.
Q. Did you know if it was chemical?
A. Well, I wasn't 100 percent sure what I meant by chemical when I wrote that. So I was just
trying to, you know, cast a wide net as to what could be the problem.
Q. And did you give a -- a number of things that chemical could have meant to you at the time
when
You gave your answer in your deposition?
A. Yes, I clarified my first answer by expanding on it, yes.
Q. And at the time that you gave those various explanations as to what chemical might have
been, did
You have a memory at that point in time as to what it meant?
A. Yes.
Q. What was that?
A. When it was first referring to chemical, I was thinking about the issues that we had with
Britney Spears on her tour, and the fact that she -- that they had discovered that she had a
chemical imbalance, they were treating her for that, meaning she was under court supervision
for that whole tour.
Q. And is that something that you understood because you'd worked with Ms. Spears?
A. Correct.
Q. And so when you look back as to what you might have meant today, you thought that might
have

been what you meant?

A. Correct.
Mr. Panish: Well, objection, leading and suggestive. It's vague as to when. First, we're
talking about -- was it at the deposition, is it now, is it -- I mean he just asked him.
Judge: Sustained.
Q. So when did you come to believe that that may have been what you meant at the time?
A. At the deposition.
Q. And did you provide that answer at the deposition?
A. Correct.
Q. As we sit here today, do you know what you meant when you wrote "chemical or
physiological" back on either the night of the 19th or the morning of the 20th of June, 2009?
A. Not 100 percent when I wrote it, no.
Q. All right. In any -- regardless of what you meant, did you know what was wrong?
A. No.
Q. And did you have any basis for your suspicions other than what we've discussed in terms of
these various emails?
A. Well, I said very clearly I'm not sure what the problem is, and even when I did chemical or
physiological, I ended it with a question mark.
Q. Asking you -- some of the answers that you provided earlier, did you know whether Mr.
Jackson had the flu?
A. No.
Q. And other than what you've seen, did you have any basis to know whether he did or did not
have

the flu?
A. No.
Q. What about a bad reaction to medicine? Did you have any basis other than what we've
discussed here today as to whether it could have been a bad reaction to medicine?
A. No.
Q. And do you have anything further to note today as to whether it was that?
A. No.
Q. And let me ask you, sir, as you sit here today, do you have any understanding as to what was
wrong with Mr. Jackson on June 19, 2009?
A. None whatsoever.
Q. Is it any clearer to you today than it was on June 19, 2009, as to what was wrong with Mr.
Jackson?
A. No.
Q. You do understand Mr. Michael Jackson died six days later, correct?
A. Yes, obviously.
Q. And do you have an understanding as to the cause of Mr. Jackson's death?
A. I know what the coroner's report said.
Q. And what do you understand that to be?
A. To be that he died from an overdose of propofol.
Q. Do you have any understanding as to whether that cause of death, propofol -- do you
understand
whether that cause of death and the fact that Mr. Jackson was exhibiting whatever signs he was
exhibiting and have been noted in these emails are in any way related?
Mr. Panish: There's no foundation for this.

Mr. Putnam: I'm asking did he have any understanding.

Mr. Panish: There's no foundation.
Judge: Overruled.
Phillips: No.
Mr. Putnam: Thank you.
Judge: Okay. It's 4:00 o'clock. 9:30 tomorrow morning. Remember, tomorrow is a half day
because we have two jurors who need to attend to something. Okay?
(court adjourned for the day)