Paul Murphy, Former WCSO Deputy - Deposition Transcript (Federal) - Redacted

MURPHY v. PAUL PAUL MURPHY VOL.
I
COURT REPORTER: MELONI E RAI NEY PROCEEDI NG DATE: Febr uar y 12, 2014
Page 1
UNI TED STATES DI STRI CT COURT
FOR THE WESTERN DI STRI CT OF WASHI NGTON
AT SEATTLE
______________________________________________________
PAUL MURPHY, t oget her )
wi t h hi s mar i t al communi t y, )
)
Pl ai nt i f f , )
)
vs. ) NO. CV13 727 J CC
)
WHATCOM COUNTY, WASHI NGTON, a )
gover nment ent i t y; WHATCOM )
COUNTY SHERI FF' S DEPARTMENT; )
WI LLI AM J . ELFO, t oget her wi t h)
hi s mar i t al communi t y, )
)
Def endant s. )
______________________________________________________
VI DEOTAPED DEPOSI TI ON UPON ORAL EXAMI NATI ON
OF
PAUL R. MURPHY
______________________________________________________
DATE TAKEN: FEBRUARY 12, 2014
REPORTED BY: MELONI E RAI NEY, CCR, RPR
CORPOLONGO & ASSOCI ATES
REPORTI NG & REAL- TI ME SPECI ALI STS
114 West Magnol i a, Sui t e 429
Bel l i ngham, Washi ngt on 98225
1( 360) 671- 6298 1( 800) 272- 0719
MURPHY v. PAUL PAUL MURPHY VOL. I
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1 APPEARANCES
2
3 FOR THE PLAI NTI FF:
4 EMI LY BESCHEN
The Law Of f i ces of Rober t D. But l er
5 103 East Hol l y St r eet
Sui t e 512
6 Bel l i ngham, Washi ngt on 98225
360. 734. 7975
7 emi l y@r dbut l er l aw. com
8
FOR THE DEFENDANTS:
9
W. DALE KAMERRER
10 Law, Lyman, Dani el ,
Kamer r er & Bogdanovi ch
11 2674 RWJ ohnson Boul evar d Sout hwest
Tumwat er , Washi ngt on 98512
12 360. 754. 3480
dkamer r er @l l dkb. com
13
ELI ZABETH L. GALLERY
14 What comCount y Pr osecut or ' s Of f i ce
311 Gr and Avenue
15 Sui t e 201
Bel l i ngham, Washi ngt on 98225
16 360. 676. 6784
l gal l er y@co. what com. wa. us
17
18 ALSO PRESENT:
19 SUSAN LOOKER
BI LL ELFO
20
RI CHARD SCOTT
21 Legal Vi deogr apher
Pr emi er Real t i me
22
23
24
25
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1 EXAMI NATI ON I NDEX
2
3 EXAMI NATI ON BY: PAGE NO.
4
Mr . Kamer r er 06
5
6
EXHI BI T I NDEX
7
8 EXHI BI T DESCRI PTI ON PAGE NO.
9
01 Not i ce of Vi deo Deposi t i on. 07
10
02 Compl ai nt . 11
11
03 Def endant ' s Second I nt er r ogat or i es 13
12 and Request s f or Admi ssi on t o
Pl ai nt i f f and Pl ai nt i f f s Answer s
13 and Responses Ther et o.
14 04 Memo t o Al l Per sonnel , f r om 21
Sher i f f Bi l l El f o, dat ed
15 10/ 10/ 05.
16 05 Document ent i t l ed Advi ce of 24
Admi ni st r at i ve I nt er vi ew.
17
06 Document ent i t l ed Advi ce of 26
18 Admi ni st r at i ve I nt er vi ew.
19 07 I nt er vi ew wi t h Dep. Paul Mur phy. 27
20 08 Mi scel l aneous Facebook ent r i es. 79
21 09 Mi scel l aneous Facebook ent r i es. 117
22 10 Emai l t o Kevi n Hest er , f r omPaul 135
Mur phy, dat ed 3/ 5/ 12.
23
11 Bl ack and whi t e phot ocopi es. 153
24
12 Pur chasi ng Ledger I nqui r y. 159
25
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1 EXHI BI T I NDEX
2
EXHI BI T DESCRI PTI ON PAGE NO.
3
4
13 Let t er of Under st andi ng. 166
5
14 Let t er wi t h at t achment s t o Deput y 172
6 Mur phy, f r omSher i f f El f o, dat ed
4/ 4/ 11.
7
15 Ent r y f r omAncest r y. com. 181
8
16 I nt er vi ew wi t h Dep. Paul Mur phy. 210
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
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1 BE I T REMEMBERED t hat on Wednesday,
2 Febr uar y 12, 2014, at 103 East Hol l y St r eet , Bel l i ngham,
3 Washi ngt on, at 9: 10 A. M. , bef or e Mel oni e D. Rai ney, CCR,
4 RPR, appear ed PAUL R. MURPHY, t he wi t ness her ei n;
5 WHEREUPON, t he f ol l owi ng pr oceedi ngs wer e
6 had, t o wi t :
7
8 <<<<<< >>>>>>
9
10 09: 10: 23 THE VI DEOGRAPHER: We ar e goi ng on t he
11 09: 10: 23 r ecor d at 9: 10 a. m. on Febr uar y 12t h, 2014. Thi s i s t he
12 09: 10: 30 vi deo deposi t i on of Paul Mur phy t aken i n t he mat t er of
13 09: 10: 35 Mur phy ver sus What comCount y, et al . , f i l ed i n t he US
14 09: 10: 39 Di st r i ct Cour t , West er n Di st r i ct of Washi ngt on.
15 09: 10: 43 Thi s deposi t i on i s t aki ng pl ace at 103 East
16 09: 10: 47 Hol l y St r eet , Sui t e 310, Bel l i ngham, Washi ngt on. The
17 09: 10: 52 vi deogr apher i s Ri char d Scot t , and t he cour t r epor t er i s
18 09: 10: 55 Mel oni e Rai ney f or Cor pol ongo & Associ at es.
19 09: 10: 59 Wi l l counsel pl ease i dent i f y your sel ves f or
20 09: 11: 02 t he r ecor d and t hen t he wi t ness may be swor n i n.
21 09: 11: 04 MR. KAMERRER: I amDal e Kamer r er , at t or ney
22 09: 11: 08 f or t he def endant s.
23 09: 11: 11 MS. GALLERY: Li z Gal l er y, pr osecut or ' s
24 09: 11: 14 of f i ce, at t or ney f or t he def endant s.
25 09: 11: 15 MS. BESCHEN: Emi l y Beschen, at t or ney f or
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1 09: 11: 18 Paul Mur phy.
2
3 PAUL R. MURPHY, wi t ness her ei n, havi ng been
4 f i r st dul y swor n on oat h,
5 was exami ned and t est i f i ed
6 as f ol l ows:
7 09: 11: 38
8 09: 11: 38 E X A M I N A T I O N
9 09: 11: 38 BY MR. KAMERRER:
10 09: 11: 38 Q. Would you state your full name and address for
11 09: 11: 40 the record, please?
12 09: 11: 41 A. Full name is Paul Raymond Murphy, 1215 East Smith
13 09: 11: 49 Road, Bellingham, 98226.
14 09: 11: 52 Q. Are you the plaintiff in the lawsuit that's
15 09: 11: 57 entitled Paul Murphy versus Whatcom County, Washington;
16 09: 12: 02 Whatcom County Sheriff's Department, and William J. Elfo
17 09: 12: 07 filed in the United States District Court for the
18 09: 12: 09 Western District of Washington?
19 09: 12: 10 A. I am.
20 09: 12: 11 Q. Have you ever had your deposition taken before?
21 09: 12: 14 A. Probably.
22 09: 12: 19 Q. You don't recall previously doing that?
23 09: 12: 22 A. The only time I can -- in this case?
24 09: 12: 25 Q. In any case.
25 09: 12: 27 A. In my former duties as a deputy, probably. No
Page 7
1 09: 12: 37 specific recollection.
2 09: 12: 38 Q. You realize you're under oath and sworn to tell
3 09: 12: 42 the truth?
4 09: 12: 42 A. I am.
5 09: 12: 43 Q. And that you're here to answer my questions?
6 09: 12: 46 A. I am.
7 09: 12: 46 Q. If you don't understand any of my questions,
8 09: 12: 50 please say so and I'll try to rephrase them. If you
9 09: 12: 53 need a break, say so and we'll take one.
10 09: 12: 57 It's important that you answer out loud rather
11 09: 13: 01 than nodding or shaking your head, and it's best to use
12 09: 13: 05 verbal words, rather than "uh-huhs" and "huh-uhs" that
13 09: 13: 11 are sometimes difficult to translate.
14 09: 13: 13 Will you do that?
15 09: 13: 14 A. I will.
16 09: 13: 14 Q. And please allow me to finish my questions before
17 09: 13: 18 you begin testifying so that you fully understand the
18 09: 13: 23 question, because sometimes the meaning of the question
19 09: 13: 25 can be changed by the last word.
20 09: 13: 28 Will you do that?
21 09: 13: 29 A. I will.
22 09: 13: 34 (Exhibit No. 1 marked.)
23 09: 13: 34 Q. Showing you what was marked as Exhibit No. 1,
24 09: 13: 41 this is the Notice of Deposition and Request for
25 09: 13: 44 Production At Deposition for this deposition.
Page 8
1 09: 13: 49 Have you seen that? There's actually two
2 09: 13: 51 documents stapled together there. Have you seen those?
3 09: 13: 54 A. (Witness reviews document.) This looks like what
4 09: 14: 12 I got.
5 09: 14: 13 Q. The second document there, Defendant's Request
6 09: 14: 17 for Production At Deposition calls for you to produce
7 09: 14: 21 all computer hard drives for any laptop computer used by
8 09: 14: 26 plaintiff assigned to plaintiff by the Whatcom County
9 09: 14: 29 Sheriff's Office or possessed by the plaintiff.
10 09: 14: 33 Did you bring any such hard drives with you
11 09: 14: 36 today?
12 09: 14: 37 A. I brought my personal hard drives.
13 09: 14: 42 Q. Where are they?
14 09: 14: 47 A. I should clarify. I brought personal hard drives
15 09: 14: 54 that would match the description of what was requested.
16 09: 14: 58 Q. I would like to see those.
17 09: 15: 03 A. (Witness complies.)
18 09: 15: 18 There's a two-and-a-half-inch SATA drive. These
19 09: 15: 23 are enclosures. I didn't take them out of the
20 09: 15: 26 enclosure, but I can if you want me to.
21 09: 15: 28 Q. Can anyone open them and look at the hard drive
22 09: 15: 32 inside?
23 09: 15: 33 A. I brought a screwdriver, take just a minute to
24 09: 15: 37 open it.
25 09: 15: 37 Q. I don't want to open them right yet. I want to
Page 9
1 09: 15: 40 have them looked at by Ms. Gallery here while we proceed
2 09: 15: 43 with the rest of the deposition. So if you hand those
3 09: 15: 46 to me, I'll let her do that. We won't open them without
4 09: 15: 50 reviewing that with you first.
5 09: 15: 56 A. This one is kind of a snap open one, but -- it's
6 09: 16: 02 a -- it's an after-market enclosure for hard drives.
7 09: 16: 05 Q. Would you snap that -- unsnap that, please?
8 09: 16: 08 A. Sure. (Witness complies.)
9 09: 16: 25 Q. Thank you.
10 09: 16: 31 These three hard drives that you brought today
11 09: 16: 36 are what you believe complies with our requests for
12 09: 16: 41 production which is part of Exhibit No. 1; is that
13 09: 16: 48 right?
14 09: 16: 48 A. I don't believe they're what you're looking for.
15 09: 16: 54 Q. Do you have any computer hard drives removed from
16 09: 16: 58 any computer ever issued to you as a deputy sheriff?
17 09: 17: 03 A. I do not.
18 09: 17: 05 Q. Have these hard drives that you brought with you
19 09: 17: 11 today ever been used in a County-issued computer?
20 09: 17: 19 A. If you could clarify that question, please?
21 09: 17: 21 Q. Have any of these three hard drives ever been
22 09: 17: 25 installed in a County-issued computer that you use as a
23 09: 17: 33 deputy sheriff?
24 09: 17: 36 A. To the best of my knowledge, no. One possibly.
25 09: 17: 42 Q. Which one is that?
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1 09: 17: 43 A. That would be the 40 gigabyte SATA drive that was
2 09: 17: 50 in the silver anti-static envelope.
3 09: 17: 54 Q. So the case that you snapped open is one that may
4 09: 17: 58 have been in a County-issued computer?
5 09: 18: 00 A. No, no. The silver antistatic bag, the one
6 09: 18: 05 that -- the loose one, yes.
7 09: 18: 07 Q. This one here?
8 09: 18: 08 A. That one, yes.
9 09: 18: 13 Q. And it says 40 gigabyte right on its face, on its
10 09: 18: 17 label, doesn't it?
11 09: 18: 19 A. Yes.
12 09: 18: 23 Q. What county computer was that ever issued --
13 09: 18: 25 installed in?
14 09: 18: 26 A. Well, I don't know that it was, but it's a
15 09: 18: 31 possible candidate for the Dell Latitude that was issued
16 09: 18: 41 to me originally and transferred to Detective Roff.
17 09: 18: 47 Q. It was issued to you when you were serving as the
18 09: 18: 54 patrol investigator?
19 09: 18: 56 A. Yes.
20 09: 18: 56 Q. And it was turned over to Deputy Roff when you
21 09: 18: 59 left that position?
22 09: 19: 02 A. Correct.
23 09: 19: 02 Q. Just to clarify the record, Roff is R-O-F-F?
24 09: 19: 07 A. Yes, R-O-F-F, Robert, Ocean, Frank, Frank.
25 09: 19: 15 Q. Do you have a concealed weapon permit?
Page 11
1 09: 19: 17 A. I do not.
2 09: 19: 17 Q. Are you carrying a firearm today?
3 09: 19: 19 A. I am not.
4 09: 19: 20 Q. Do you have one in your possession?
5 09: 19: 22 A. I do not.
6 09: 19: 30 Q. Have you taken any medication today?
7 09: 19: 32 A. No.
8 09: 19: 34 Q. Do you regularly take any prescription
9 09: 19: 37 medications?
10 09: 19: 38 A. I do not.
11 09: 19: 39 Q. Have you ever been prescribed medication for
12 09: 19: 47 stress, anxiety, depression or any other psychological
13 09: 19: 51 condition?
14 09: 19: 53 A. To the best of my recollection, no.
15 09: 19: 56 Q. Have you ever been diagnosed as having a
16 09: 19: 59 psychological disorder?
17 09: 20: 00 A. No.
18 09: 20: 00 Q. Aside from the notice of video deposition and the
19 09: 20: 09 request for production, have you reviewed any documents
20 09: 20: 14 in preparation for this deposition?
21 09: 20: 16 A. I did not.
23 09: 20: 31 Q. Mr. Murphy, showing you what's been marked as
24 09: 20: 49 Exhibit No. 2, I'll represent to you that's a copy of
25 09: 20: 56 the complaint filed in this action; do you recognize it?
Page 12
1 09: 21: 03 A. (Witness reviews document.)
2 09: 21: 16 Excuse me. Yes, that looks like the one that I
3 09: 21: 35 got.
4 09: 21: 35 Q. Did you read it before it was filed?
5 09: 21: 37 A. I did.
6 09: 21: 38 Q. Did you agree with the allegations that were made
7 09: 21: 42 in that complaint?
8 09: 21: 45 A. In the overall, yes.
9 09: 21: 50 Q. Specifically, the allegations of wrongdoing by
10 09: 21: 55 Sheriff Elfo, members of the Sheriff's Department of
11 09: 22: 00 Whatcom County, did you agree with those allegations?
12 09: 22: 06 A. If you could maybe point me to a section or a
13 09: 22: 11 page.
14 09: 22: 14 Q. Well, it's a long complaint, and there are a
15 09: 22: 19 variety of allegations, some of which are historical,
16 09: 22: 22 others of which allege wrongdoing on the part of either
17 09: 22: 26 the sheriff, members of the sheriff's office or Whatcom
18 09: 22: 32 County.
19 09: 22: 32 A. Oh, you mean all of them together? Yes. Yes, I
20 09: 22: 37 did. I do agree.
21 09: 23: 08 Q. Have you seen our interrogatories and requests
22 09: 23: 10 for production that we served on your attorney for you
23 09: 23: 14 to answer?
24 09: 23: 20 A. I'm pretty sure I have seen everything.
25 09: 23: 22 Q. And did you participate in the preparation of
Page 13
1 09: 23: 25 answers for those various discovery requests?
2 09: 23: 29 A. I did.
3 09: 23: 30 Q. Did you review them and approve them before they
4 09: 23: 35 were returned to us?
5 09: 23: 35 A. I did.
6 09: 23: 36 Q. Did you agree that the answers in those discovery
7 09: 23: 41 responses were true and correct?
8 09: 23: 44 A. Absolutely.
9 09: 23: 46 Q. I'm going to show you one of those documents and
10 09: 24: 12 be a little more specific about it here once I get it
11 09: 24: 15 marked.
13 09: 24: 17 Q. Showing you what's been marked as Exhibit 3, do
14 09: 24: 30 you recognize this as Defendant's Second Interrogatories
15 09: 24: 36 and Requests for Admission to Plaintiff and Plaintiff's
16 09: 24: 40 Answers and Responses Thereto?
18 09: 25: 05 I'm sorry. Could you restate that question.
19 09: 25: 07 Q. Yeah, do you recognize this document as it is
20 09: 25: 13 labeled?
21 09: 25: 14 A. Yes, it looks like what I received.
22 09: 25: 17 Q. And did you participate in preparing answers and
23 09: 25: 21 responses to those discovery requests?
24 09: 25: 23 A. I did.
25 09: 25: 24 Q. In fact, on Page 4 it has your signature or a
Page 14
1 09: 25: 31 copy of it; is that right?
2 09: 25: 33 A. That's correct.
3 09: 25: 35 Q. What's your current occupation?
4 09: 25: 40 A. I am a self-employed automotive diagnostic
5 09: 25: 46 technician.
6 09: 25: 46 Q. Do you have a business name?
7 09: 25: 48 A. Auto Computer and Electronics Specialist, LLC.
8 09: 25: 52 Q. What's the address of that business?
9 09: 25: 54 A. Same as my home address, 1215 East Smith Road,
10 09: 25: 59 Bellingham, 98226.
11 09: 26: 01 Q. Do you have employees?
12 09: 26: 03 A. I do not.
13 09: 26: 04 Q. Is your wife's name Lori?
14 09: 26: 09 A. That is, yes.
15 09: 26: 10 Q. And it's spelled L-O-R-I?
16 09: 26: 12 A. Correct.
17 09: 26: 13 Q. Some of the posts on Facebook by you that I have
18 09: 26: 21 seen have other posts or messages by someone who refers
19 09: 26: 30 to themselves as quote the wife, end quote. Is that
20 09: 26: 34 your wife, Lori?
21 09: 26: 35 MS. BESCHEN: I obj ect as t o vague. Do you
22 09: 26: 37 have a speci f i c post t hat you' r e i nqui r i ng about ?
23 09: 26: 40 MR. KAMERRER: I ' maski ng about some.
24 09: 26: 45 A. I have never added that to any posts I've ever
25 09: 26: 49 written, so...
Page 15
1 09: 26: 50 Q. Do you know whether she has added -- she's made
2 09: 26: 53 any posts to your Facebook website?
3 09: 26: 55 A. Of course she has, yes.
4 09: 26: 56 Q. Does she refer to herself as "the wife"?
5 09: 26: 59 A. She does.
6 09: 27: 00 Q. Is your wife employed outside the home?
7 09: 27: 03 A. She is not.
8 09: 27: 05 Q. How many live in your household?
9 09: 27: 07 A. Two at present.
10 09: 27: 10 Q. Is that you and your wife?
11 09: 27: 12 A. Yes.
12 09: 27: 12 Q. Do you have any other sources of income besides
13 09: 27: 17 your automotive business?
14 09: 27: 18 A. We have a lease income from a cellular
15 09: 27: 26 communications tower on our property. I do have a small
16 09: 27: 32 income that comes also from storage activities related
17 09: 27: 36 to vehicle and boat storage on our property. My wife
18 09: 27: 45 receives disability.
19 09: 27: 51 Q. Is that Social Security Disability?
20 09: 27: 55 A. Yes.
21 09: 27: 55 Q. Did you file a federal income tax return for
22 09: 27: 58 2012?
23 09: 27: 58 A. Yes.
24 09: 27: 59 Q. Have you filed an income fax return yet for 2013?
25 09: 28: 03 A. Working on it now, but no.
Page 16
1 09: 28: 05 Q. Are you claiming a loss of income in connection
2 09: 28: 12 with this lawsuit?
3 09: 28: 13 A. Absolutely.
4 09: 28: 14 Q. Have you calculated what that amount is?
5 09: 28: 17 A. I have not.
6 09: 28: 18 Q. Have you talked to any economists or other
7 09: 28: 24 experts about your economic loss?
8 09: 28: 27 A. I have not.
9 09: 28: 28 Q. Do you have an estimate how much you have -- how
10 09: 28: 39 much you will claim as economic loss?
11 09: 28: 41 A. I don't.
12 09: 28: 41 Q. How many years into your county employment were
13 09: 28: 46 you when you were terminated?
14 09: 28: 48 A. Just over 11 years.
15 09: 28: 55 Q. To what age were you planning to work before
16 09: 28: 59 retirement?
17 09: 29: 00 A. I figured I'm in good shape, healthy, fit, I
18 09: 29: 07 figured 53 should be pretty easy and that's the minimum
19 09: 29: 10 age for retirement. I figured I would go at least 53
20 09: 29: 14 and see how it goes.
21 09: 29: 25 Q. Since you were terminated as a deputy sheriff,
22 09: 29: 36 have you applied for any other jobs?
23 09: 29: 38 A. I have.
24 09: 29: 38 Q. With what entities?
25 09: 29: 41 A. I don't have a number. I don't have a list with
Page 17
1 09: 29: 49 me either, but I would say easily a hundred
2 09: 29: 53 applications.
3 09: 29: 53 Q. Have you applied for any governmental work?
4 09: 29: 59 A. I have.
5 09: 29: 59 Q. With what agencies?
6 09: 30: 01 A. Probably better said by what ones I didn't apply
7 09: 30: 06 to, because I can't think of one I didn't apply to. I
8 09: 30: 10 applied to all federal levels, all state levels, every
9 09: 30: 20 municipality opening that I found, including tribal.
10 09: 30: 28 Anything that looked like it was suitable, I applied for
11 09: 30: 31 it.
12 09: 30: 33 Q. Were any of those law enforcement-related jobs?
13 09: 30: 37 A. Yes.
14 09: 30: 39 Q. For such jobs, have you taken any psychological
15 09: 30: 45 exams?
16 09: 30: 46 A. No.
17 09: 30: 48 Q. Have you received any rejection letters from any
18 09: 30: 52 prospective employer?
19 09: 30: 54 A. I have.
20 09: 30: 56 Q. How many rejection letters?
21 09: 30: 58 A. One rejection letter that I can think of, and
22 09: 31: 14 maybe two emails. At least one email.
23 09: 31: 19 Q. Have you retained those letters or emails?
24 09: 31: 24 A. I have.
25 09: 31: 25 Q. We're going to make a request for production, so
Page 18
1 09: 31: 28 please hang onto those.
2 09: 31: 30 Have any of those rejection letters cited your
3 09: 31: 34 termination as a deputy sheriff as a reason for
4 09: 31: 37 unwillingness to employ you?
5 09: 31: 42 A. No.
6 09: 31: 46 Q. Have you had any interviews for employment with
7 09: 32: 01 any of the agencies you've submitted applications to?
8 09: 32: 04 A. Not one. Actually, if I could correct that. I
9 09: 32: 13 did receive one phone call. I don't think that counted
10 09: 32: 15 as an interview, but...
11 09: 32: 17 Q. Who was that from?
12 09: 32: 18 A. Nooksack Tribal PD was Lieutenant Ashby.
13 09: 32: 26 Q. And what was the gist of the conversation?
14 09: 32: 31 A. I think he was basically looking for background,
15 09: 32: 34 some background details that I didn't have on the
16 09: 32: 37 application. I don't recall exactly what it was. I
17 09: 32: 40 think it had something to do with an anomaly in the
18 09: 32: 45 tribal ID card or something that I furnished.
19 09: 32: 48 Q. Is that application still pending?
20 09: 32: 50 A. I don't believe so. I think it --
21 09: 32: 53 Q. Excuse me.
22 09: 32: 54 A. I believe the position was filled.
23 09: 32: 56 Q. Are any other applications still pending? In
24 09: 33: 00 other words, you haven't received a final answer "yes"
25 09: 33: 04 or "no"?
Page 19
1 09: 33: 04 A. That's probably most of them. I can only think
2 09: 33: 08 of two or three that I actually got a response from.
3 09: 33: 13 Q. So it's possible that you may be contacted by any
4 09: 33: 18 one of the applications other than the ones you've
5 09: 33: 22 received rejections from as a possibility for
6 09: 33: 27 employment?
7 09: 33: 27 A. I guess it's possible.
8 09: 33: 31 Q. I'm wondering, would you set that box on the
9 09: 33: 35 floor so it's not in the video?
10 09: 33: 37 A. Sure.
11 09: 33: 37 Q. I'm not sure whether it is or not, but...
12 09: 33: 40 What was your job title in the Air Force?
13 09: 33: 48 A. I had several.
14 09: 33: 50 Q. What was your last title?
15 09: 33: 52 A. The last one would be avionic -- correction, last
16 09: 33: 56 one was a communica- -- combat communication system
17 09: 34: 00 controller.
18 09: 34: 02 Q. Does that involve working with computers?
19 09: 34: 09 A. It did.
20 09: 34: 10 Q. What was your highest rank in the Air Force?
21 09: 34: 12 A. Staff sergeant, E-5.
22 09: 34: 14 Q. How long were you in that rank?
23 09: 34: 20 A. Rough numbers, six years.
24 09: 34: 28 Q. Did you apply for promotion to a higher rank?
25 09: 34: 32 A. I did not.
Page 20
1 09: 34: 33 Q. Why not?
2 09: 34: 35 A. The Air Force has a rank and progression
3 09: 34: 40 structure that makes a person eligible or ineligible,
4 09: 34: 47 and because of several career field -- or at least two
5 09: 34: 51 career field changes, I was not eligible for promotion.
6 09: 34: 58 It's kind of by choice, but that's one of the side
7 09: 35: 02 effects of that choice.
8 09: 35: 03 Q. Did you ever take a promotional exam in the
9 09: 35: 06 Whatcom County Sheriff's Office?
10 09: 35: 08 A. I don't think so.
11 09: 35: 12 Q. Why not?
12 09: 35: 17 A. Timing a couple of times I think was one of the
13 09: 35: 24 factors. I was happy with what I was doing was another
14 09: 35: 28 factor. I guess it depends on the time frame.
15 09: 35: 36 Q. Did you ever apply for transfer to the detectives
16 09: 35: 39 division?
17 09: 35: 40 A. I did.
18 09: 35: 40 Q. When did you do that?
19 09: 35: 42 A. It was in 2005.
20 09: 35: 49 Q. And how did you go about that?
21 09: 35: 50 A. The sheriff's office has a memorandum of interest
22 09: 35: 56 process, and I submitted an MOI is what we call it. I
23 09: 36: 02 submitted an MOI to be considered as essentially an
24 09: 36: 06 entry-level detective. It's called patrol investigator.
25 09: 36: 12 Q. As a result of that, did you receive that
Page 21
1 09: 36: 16 assignment?
2 09: 36: 17 A. I did.
3 09: 36: 18 Q. Okay.
6 09: 36: 43 Exhibit No. 4, is that a copy of the announcement
7 09: 36: 53 appointing you as patrol investigator for a term of two
8 09: 36: 58 years from January 1, 2006 to December 31, 2007?
9 09: 37: 03 A. It looks like what I received.
10 09: 37: 07 Q. You understood going into this position that it
11 09: 37: 11 was a two-year term, didn't you?
12 09: 37: 14 A. I understood it was a two-year term, yes.
13 09: 37: 19 Q. Did the officer who proceeded you in that
14 09: 37: 23 position serve for two years?
15 09: 37: 27 A. Yes, he did, but he also moved to a four-year
16 09: 37: 31 detective position.
17 09: 37: 32 Q. After or during the patrol investigator?
18 09: 37: 38 A. Well, there is one patrol investigator -- or
19 09: 37: 41 there was. At that time, there was one patrol
20 09: 37: 44 investigator position, which is kind of seen as an
21 09: 37: 47 entry-level detective position, and then a person
22 09: 37: 51 decides whether or not they want to remain a detective
23 09: 37: 54 essentially, and can put in for a four-year position to
24 09: 37: 58 remain in detectives. There's also a renewal process
25 09: 38: 02 where a person can resubmit an application to remain a
Page 22
1 09: 38: 08 detective for another two years.
2 09: 38: 13 Q. Did you put in for a four-year detective
3 09: 38: 16 position?
4 09: 38: 16 A. I did not.
5 09: 38: 19 Q. Did the person who followed you in the patrol
6 09: 38: 25 investigator position serve for two years?
7 09: 38: 34 A. That's a confusing question, if you could
8 09: 38: 36 rephrase that, please.
9 09: 38: 37 Q. Who followed you in the patrol investigator
10 09: 38: 41 position?
11 09: 38: 41 A. Steve Roff.
12 09: 38: 42 Q. Did Roff serve for two years in that position?
13 09: 38: 49 A. To the best of my knowledge, yes.
14 09: 38: 50 Q. Was he extended?
15 09: 38: 52 A. I don't know.
16 09: 38: 52 Q. Did he transfer or move to the detectives
17 09: 38: 55 division for a four-year position?
18 09: 38: 58 A. I'm not sure.
19 09: 39: 04 Q. By 2010, were you proficient in the use of email
20 09: 39: 10 to -- for communications?
21 09: 39: 12 A. Absolutely, yeah.
22 09: 39: 14 Q. Given that you had a laptop computer in your
23 09: 39: 22 patrol car when you were serving as a patrol deputy, did
24 09: 39: 25 you primarily use that for communications by email to
25 09: 39: 30 other deputies or supervisors or other people in the
Page 23
1 09: 39: 35 county?
2 09: 39: 35 A. Yeah, I think that's an accurate statement.
3 09: 39: 41 Q. Did you recognize that email has advantages over
4 09: 39: 44 using a telephone in the sense that you can send a
5 09: 39: 47 message on your own time and the recipient gets it on
6 09: 39: 52 their own time and is able to respond when they're able?
7 09: 39: 57 A. I agree with that, yes.
8 09: 39: 59 Q. And it also creates a record at both ends of the
9 09: 40: 03 communication for future reference?
10 09: 40: 05 A. Absolutely.
11 09: 40: 06 Q. And as opposed to that system, telephoning is
12 09: 40: 12 often a problem because you don't reach the person since
13 09: 40: 17 they're not at work or they're on the other line or you
14 09: 40: 20 have to leave a message. You never know when they got
15 09: 40: 23 it. And sometimes -- and there's never really, except
16 09: 40: 28 for voicemail, a record kept of a telephone call.
17 09: 40: 30 A. I guess it depends on what the nature of the call
18 09: 40: 34 is.
19 09: 40: 34 Q. You worked graveyard a lot as patrol deputy?
20 09: 40: 37 A. I did.
21 09: 40: 38 Q. If you wanted to communicate with other people in
22 09: 40: 40 the county, email was by far the best method of doing
23 09: 40: 44 that because often they worked regular day shifts?
24 09: 40: 48 MS. BESCHEN: I s t hat a quest i on?
25 09: 40: 49 MR. KAMERRER: Yes.
Page 24
1 09: 40: 50 Q. Is that correct?
2 09: 40: 52 A. Generally I agree with that, but I think it
3 09: 40: 56 depends on what the subject is or what the communication
4 09: 40: 59 relates to. Occasionally I would send voicemails,
5 09: 41: 06 instead of email.
6 09: 41: 06 Q. Do you recall being interviewed by Inspector
7 09: 41: 10 Cooley on March 1, 2012 and May 3, 2012?
8 09: 41: 14 A. I do.
9 09: 41: 14 Q. Were you ill on either of those days?
10 09: 41: 16 A. Physically sick, no, I don't think so.
11 09: 41: 23 Q. Were you taking medication on either of those
12 09: 41: 25 days?
13 09: 41: 26 A. No.
14 09: 41: 28 Q. Were you aware that those interviews were being
15 09: 41: 31 recorded?
16 09: 41: 32 A. I was.
17 09: 41: 33 Q. Did you have a Deputy Sheriff's Guild
18 09: 41: 36 representative at each of those interviews?
19 09: 41: 39 A. I did.
20 09: 41: 39 Q. At those interviews, did you understand that you
21 09: 41: 45 had an obligation to answer the investigator's questions
22 09: 41: 51 and to answer them truthfully?
23 09: 41: 53 A. I understood that and to be as fully cooperative
24 09: 41: 57 as I could possibly be.
25 09: 41: 59 Q. And did you endeavor to do that during those
Page 25
1 09: 42: 02 interviews?
2 09: 42: 03 A. I did.
5 09: 42: 39 Exhibit No. 5, do you recognize that as the advice of
6 09: 42: 45 administrative interview that pertained to your
7 09: 42: 49 interview by Inspector Cooley on March 1, 2012?
9 09: 43: 08 Maybe I'm overthinking it, but I'm not sure I
10 09: 43: 11 understand what you're asking me.
11 09: 43: 12 MS. BESCHEN: I ' mnot sur e I amei t her . Can
12 09: 43: 13 you r epeat what you. . . ?
13 09: 43: 13 Q. Do you recognize Exhibit 5 as a copy of the
14 09: 43: 18 advice of administrative interview that you received,
15 09: 43: 26 initialed, and signed prior to the March 1, 2012
16 09: 43: 31 interview?
17 09: 43: 33 A. I do recall receiving this, yes.
18 09: 43: 35 Q. Do you see your initials in the lower right-hand
19 09: 43: 38 corner of each page?
20 09: 43: 39 A. I do.
21 09: 43: 40 Q. And did you sign the document on Page 4?
22 09: 43: 45 A. That's my signature.
23 09: 43: 46 Q. Okay.
24 09: 43: 47 Did you review that document ahead of time?
25 09: 43: 56 A. At the time when I received it?
Page 26
1 09: 43: 58 Q. Yes.
2 09: 44: 00 A. I'm sure I read it.
3 09: 44: 02 Q. Looks like it's dated February 27, a couple days
4 09: 44: 07 before the interview. Is that when you received it?
5 09: 44: 18 A. I actually don't remember when I received it. I
6 09: 44: 26 believe I had to sign one at the time of the
7 09: 44: 29 investigation when the interview took place, but I think
8 09: 44: 33 I got one before that too.
10 09: 44: 36 Q. Now showing you what's been marked as Exhibit No.
11 09: 44: 48 6, I'm essentially going to ask you the same questions
12 09: 44: 52 about this document. Is it the advice of administrative
13 09: 44: 56 review that you initialed and signed prior to the
14 09: 45: 01 interview on May 3, 2012?
15 09: 45: 07 A. It appears to be.
16 09: 45: 10 Q. Have you seen the transcripts of your interview
17 09: 45: 38 on March 1, 2012 prior to today?
18 09: 45: 43 A. I have.
19 09: 45: 44 Q. And have you listened to the audio recording of
20 09: 45: 49 that interview?
21 09: 45: 50 A. I did.
22 09: 45: 50 Q. In connection with our discovery request, which
23 09: 46: 02 is Exhibit 3, where we asked some questions about the
24 09: 46: 07 interview transcripts, did you at that time or close to
25 09: 46: 10 this time review the transcripts and listen to the
Page 27
1 09: 46: 16 recordings?
2 09: 46: 18 A. That sounded like a couple questions.
3 09: 46: 20 Q. Well, let me break it down then.
4 09: 46: 23 Close in time to you answering our discovery
5 09: 46: 28 requests, which are now Exhibit 3 in this deposition,
6 09: 46: 32 did you review the transcript of the March 1 interview?
7 09: 46: 40 A. I remember there being a couple of
8 09: 46: 42 interrogatories, so...
9 09: 46: 46 Q. There are?
10 09: 46: 48 A. Yeah. I have reviewed the transcript. I can't
11 09: 46: 52 tell you for sure exactly when I did it.
12 09: 46: 54 Q. Okay.
14 09: 47: 12 Q. Showing you what's been marked as Exhibit No. 7,
15 09: 47: 17 Mr. Murphy, I'll represent to you that this is a copy of
16 09: 47: 21 the same transcript that we sent to you and asked
17 09: 47: 27 questions about at least pertaining to the March 1
18 09: 47: 30 interview, and it -- as referred to in our
19 09: 47: 37 interrogatories and requests for admission, which are
20 09: 47: 39 now Exhibit 3.
21 09: 47: 40 Do you recognize that transcript?
23 09: 47: 47 This appears to be the transcript of that
24 09: 47: 49 interview.
25 09: 47: 50 Q. Okay.
Page 28
1 09: 47: 51 Now, I -- what I want do is now I want to have
2 09: 47: 55 you pull out Exhibit No. 3, please.
4 09: 48: 02 Q. I'm going to have you look at these side by side.
5 09: 48: 19 If you look at Page 3 of Exhibit 3, following the
6 09: 48: 34 objection and an answer to Interrogatory No. 1 --
7 09: 48: 41 A. Page 3 of Exhibit 3?
8 09: 48: 45 Q. Yeah.
9 09: 48: 46 A. And then...?
10 09: 48: 47 Q. You indicate that there are errors on Pages 1 and
11 09: 48: 56 20 of the March 1, 2012 transcript. Do you see that?
12 09: 49: 01 A. Yes.
13 09: 49: 02 Q. Can you tell me what the error is or errors on
14 09: 49: 05 Page 1 of that transcript?
15 09: 49: 07 A. This isn't my noted copy, so I --
16 09: 49: 10 Q. Let me ask some questions about that.
17 09: 49: 12 Do you have a copy of this transcript that is
18 09: 49: 14 marked up with your notes?
19 09: 49: 17 A. I think I have a Word document that I started
20 09: 49: 21 making some corrections on, but I got partially through
21 09: 49: 24 it and basically said it's -- I basically after
22 09: 49: 27 reviewing the audio decided that it was just
23 09: 49: 33 grammatical, typographical spelling --
24 09: 49: 33 Q. Okay.
25 09: 49: 35 A. -- mistakes that -- it was essentially what took
Page 29
1 09: 49: 38 place in that interview, minus grammatical, spelling,
2 09: 49: 45 punctuation mistakes.
3 09: 49: 45 Q. So if I understand you correctly, what you're
4 09: 49: 49 saying is that the transcript is essentially correct,
5 09: 49: 53 but there are some grammatical and/or spelling errors in
6 09: 49: 57 it?
7 09: 49: 57 A. Correct.
8 09: 49: 58 Q. One of them that I found is that it refers to
9 09: 50: 04 Deputy Roff, R-O-F-F as Roth, R-O-T-H?
10 09: 50: 07 A. That's one of the ones I saw too.
11 09: 50: 09 Q. Do you agree?
12 09: 50: 10 A. Yes.
13 09: 50: 11 Q. So understanding that that ought to be corrected,
14 09: 50: 14 otherwise it seems to be what occurred at that
15 09: 50: 18 interview?
16 09: 50: 19 A. Correct.
17 09: 50: 27 Q. Now, is it the same kind of problem on Page 20,
18 09: 50: 30 grammatical or spelling type of error?
19 09: 50: 33 A. 20 of...?
20 09: 50: 39 Q. Of Exhibit 7, that's the March 1, 2012 interview.
22 09: 50: 57 MS. BESCHEN: For cl ar i f i cat i on, ar e you
23 09: 50: 59 aski ng hi mr i ght now whet her t he audi o mat ches up t o
24 09: 51: 02 t hi s t r anscr i pt on t hi s page?
25 09: 51: 04 MR. KAMERRER: Not speci f i cal l y. I ' maski ng
Page 30
1 09: 51: 06 hi mwhet her he knows what t he er r or i s on Page 20 and
2 09: 51: 11 whet her i t i s one of t hose gr ammat i cal or spel l i ng- t ype
3 09: 51: 17 er r or s.
5 09: 51: 33 I don't know.
6 09: 51: 34 Q. Okay.
7 09: 51: 34 Do your notes indicate what the error is on Page
8 09: 51: 46 20, and I'm referring to the Word document you said you
9 09: 51: 49 were starting to create?
10 09: 51: 50 A. I don't know about that either. I'm not -- just
11 09: 51: 54 in briefly going over it, I'm not really even seeing
12 09: 51: 59 what the error would be.
13 09: 52: 00 Q. Okay.
14 09: 52: 00 In Exhibit 3 where you refer to the transcript of
15 09: 52: 08 the May 3, 2012 interview, you have a larger number of
16 09: 52: 16 pages indicated as where there were errors?
17 09: 52: 19 A. Yes.
18 09: 52: 20 Q. Were those similar spelling or grammar errors?
19 09: 52: 28 A. I would presume so.
20 09: 52: 30 Q. Do you recall any substantial errors -- in other
21 09: 52: 37 words, something that is recorded that is not what you
22 09: 52: 40 said?
23 09: 52: 42 A. I don't think so. I think it was consistent with
24 09: 52: 47 the intent in the meaning. Like I said, minus spelling,
25 09: 52: 54 grammar, punctuation errors.
Page 31
1 09: 52: 56 Q. Thank you.
2 09: 52: 57 A. I think there were some skips and hops between --
3 09: 52: 59 I think it was just the way it was transcribed because
4 09: 53: 02 some of the speech was overlapping, but I don't -- I
5 09: 53: 05 don't think it really changed the meaning of what took
6 09: 53: 08 place.
7 09: 53: 08 Q. During the March 1 interview, did you understand
8 09: 53: 16 that the computer that Inspector Cooley was questioning
9 09: 53: 22 you about was the Panasonic Toughbook computer that had
10 09: 53: 28 been assigned to you and which was taken from you at the
11 09: 53: 36 Laurel station in February of 2012?
12 09: 53: 39 MS. BESCHEN: I ' mgoi ng t o obj ect as t o
13 09: 53: 41 vague. I s t her e a speci f i c par t of t he i nt er vi ew t hat
14 09: 53: 44 you' r e r ef er r i ng t o?
15 09: 53: 46 MR. KAMERRER: Yes.
16 09: 53: 47 MS. BESCHEN: Can you poi nt t hat out f or
17 09: 53: 49 hi m?
18 09: 53: 49 MR. KAMERRER: I woul d l i ke hi mt o answer
19 09: 53: 51 t he quest i on.
20 09: 53: 52 A. I'm still struggling with filtering through all
21 09: 53: 55 the presuppositions. Can you ask it one more time,
22 09: 53: 58 please?
23 09: 53: 59 Q. Okay. Sure.
24 09: 54: 01 During the March 1 interview, did you understand
25 09: 54: 04 that the computer that Inspector Cooley was questioning
Page 32
1 09: 54: 09 you about was the Panasonic Toughbook computer that had
2 09: 54: 13 been assigned to you and which was taken from you at the
3 09: 54: 18 Laurel station in February, 2012?
4 09: 54: 19 A. Yes. Maybe it's me, but it just sounds like
5 09: 54: 27 there's a lot of questions lumped in sometimes.
6 09: 54: 30 Q. It's a long question, but I think you got it.
7 09: 54: 43 I want to direct your attention in Exhibit 7 to
8 09: 54: 48 Page 2, Line 74 is where I want to begin. And -- are
9 09: 55: 04 you at that point?
10 09: 55: 05 A. I am.
11 09: 55: 06 Q. Okay.
12 09: 55: 06 When I read portions of this to you, what I
13 09: 55: 11 intend to do is read it, then I'll ask you a question.
14 09: 55: 15 And I'm going to leave out nonverbal things like, uh,
15 09: 55: 21 ah, you know where they aren't in context, so I'd like
16 09: 55: 25 you to follow along and then I'll ask you a question.
17 09: 55: 28 And I'm going to begin on Line 74 with the sentence that
18 09: 55: 37 begins "at."
19 09: 55: 39 See that?
20 09: 55: 40 A. Okay.
21 09: 55: 41 Q. Okay. So here is the question: At that time,
22 09: 55: 44 was all of the hardware originally issued to you with
23 09: 55: 47 that computer including any hard drives in the computer?
24 09: 55: 52 Answer: Was all the hardware originally issued
25 09: 55: 56 with the computer? Say that again.
Page 33
1 09: 55: 59 Question: At that time, was all of the hardware
2 09: 56: 02 that was originally issued to you with that computer,
3 09: 56: 07 including any hard drives in the computer?
4 09: 56: 10 Answer: No.
5 09: 56: 12 Have I read that correctly?
6 09: 56: 14 A. That looks right to me.
7 09: 56: 17 Q. Okay.
8 09: 56: 18 Then you responded further to the question:
9 09: 56: 24 Okay. What was not in the computer?
10 09: 56: 28 Your answer: The floppy drive it came with,
11 09: 56: 31 which is kind of an afterthought.
13 09: 56: 35 A. Yes.
14 09: 56: 36 Q. Now, by "floppy drive," did you mean a 3.5 inch
15 09: 56: 42 receptacle for a portable storage device?
16 09: 56: 48 A. Yes. Specifically the interchangeable -- laptops
17 09: 56: 56 have components that you can just swap out and replace,
18 09: 57: 00 so I was talking about the floppy drive that's a
19 09: 57: 04 replaceable sub assembly.
20 09: 57: 06 Q. Is it the kind of drive that holds one of those
21 09: 57: 10 plastic 3.5 inch drives that you click in and then you
22 09: 57: 15 can save documents to it?
23 09: 57: 17 A. Yes.
24 09: 57: 17 Q. And you can pull it out and take it to another
25 09: 57: 19 computer and put it in and use it there?
Page 34
1 09: 57: 22 A. Yes.
2 09: 57: 23 Q. Okay.
3 09: 57: 23 And do I understand correctly that what did you
4 09: 57: 30 was remove that floppy drive, that is the -- the
5 09: 57: 34 internal component of the computer and replace it with
6 09: 57: 37 something else?
7 09: 57: 37 A. I did.
8 09: 57: 38 Q. Was that a CD drive?
9 09: 57: 41 A. I was -- I think it was a -- might have been a
10 09: 57: 46 DVD drive, but it was at least a CDR drive.
11 09: 57: 52 THE REPORTER: " I t was at l east a" . . . ?
12 09: 57: 53 THE WI TNESS: CDR l i ke - -
13 09: 57: 53 THE REPORTER: Got i t .
14 09: 57: 53 THE WI TNESS: - - Char l es, Davi d, Rober t .
15 09: 57: 57 A. I think it was a DVD drive, CDR.
16 09: 58: 01 Q. If you turn to Page 3 of that exhibit and look at
17 09: 58: 05 Line 109, the question is: Was there anything in the
18 09: 58: 15 computer in its place?
19 09: 58: 15 Your answer: Yes, there's a CD drive that I
20 09: 58: 19 bought.
22 09: 58: 21 A. Yes.
23 09: 58: 22 Q. Okay. So does that refresh your memory that it
24 09: 58: 23 was a CD drive that you put into that computer?
25 09: 58: 28 A. It does. But it's -- well, it's -- it's kind of
Page 35
1 09: 58: 34 a generic term. The CD drive is anything that's
2 09: 58: 38 optical. So it could actually be a DVD drive.
3 09: 58: 41 Q. So you altered your County-issued computer at
4 09: 58: 45 that point, didn't you?
5 09: 58: 46 A. I did.
6 09: 58: 46 Q. Did you request permission from any supervisor of
7 09: 58: 51 yours to do that?
8 09: 58: 52 A. I did not.
9 09: 58: 52 Q. Did you return the floppy disc drive that had
10 09: 59: 00 been in the computer to the County?
11 09: 59: 03 A. Eventually. Or do you mean at that time?
12 09: 59: 06 Q. At the time you removed it and replaced it with a
13 09: 59: 11 CD, did you return the drive --
14 09: 59: 13 A. I did not.
15 09: 59: 14 Q. -- the floppy drive to the County?
16 09: 59: 16 A. I did not.
17 09: 59: 16 Q. Did you at some time do that?
18 09: 59: 18 A. I did.
19 09: 59: 19 Q. When?
20 09: 59: 20 A. It was the final -- the final clear-out, I guess,
21 09: 59: 27 exchange of property items with Lieutenant Rossmiller.
22 09: 59: 31 I gave him the floppy drive. It took some time to find
23 09: 59: 36 it. I had to dig for it. I wasn't sure where it was.
24 09: 59: 39 I knew I still had it. I just didn't know where.
25 09: 59: 44 Q. And was that returned in some container?
Page 36
1 09: 59: 47 A. I think it was loose. I don't think it was in a
2 09: 59: 53 box. I don't recall. I just know I gave him the drive
3 09: 59: 57 back.
4 09: 59: 57 Q. Did you return other equipment at that time?
5 10: 00: 00 A. I did.
6 10: 00: 01 Q. Did you put that in a box and give it to the --
7 10: 00: 08 Rossmiller?
8 10: 00: 08 A. I think he put in a box. I don't think I put it
9 10: 00: 12 in a box.
10 10: 00: 12 Q. Did you explain to Rossmiller what that was, what
11 10: 00: 17 that device was?
12 10: 00: 19 A. No.
13 10: 00: 27 Q. Did you also install a personal hard drive in
14 10: 00: 31 that computer?
15 10: 00: 32 A. At the time I thought I did. I don't believe
16 10: 00: 41 that's the case now.
17 10: 00: 42 Q. Turn to Page 3 of Exhibit 7.
19 10: 00: 55 Q. And I'll begin at Line 122 and then I'll ask you
20 10: 00: 59 a question.
21 10: 01: 00 Question: Okay. And whose hard drive -- strike
22 10: 01: 05 that. I'm going to go up a couple lines. I'm sorry.
23 10: 01: 09 Starting at 122. Question: Okay. Was there a
24 10: 01: 12 hard drive in the computer?
25 10: 01: 15 Answer: Yes.
Page 37
1 10: 01: 17 Question: Okay. And whose hard drive was that?
2 10: 01: 21 Answer: That one's mine.
4 10: 01: 27 A. Yes.
5 10: 01: 28 Q. So you were telling Inspector Cooley that you had
6 10: 01: 35 put your only own -- personally-owned hard drive into
7 10: 01: 38 the Panasonic Toughbook computer that had been assigned
8 10: 01: 42 to you?
9 10: 01: 42 A. Yes.
10 10: 01: 46 Q. Was that not correct?
11 10: 01: 48 A. Generically, I suppose. The general meaning, but
12 10: 01: 56 in everything that's transpired up to this point, I've
13 10: 02: 02 had a chance to reflect a lot on this series of events.
14 10: 02: 09 I don't think at the time I was recalling the
15 10: 02: 12 correct computer. So the hard -- I do believe the hard
16 10: 02: 18 drive that I had sent in with that computer was sent is
17 10: 02: 21 in with that computer, but I didn't personally put it
18 10: 02: 24 in. At the time I wasn't sure of that. I wasn't clear
19 10: 02: 28 on that.
20 10: 02: 28 Q. Did you ever put a personal hard drive into that
21 10: 02: 31 computer?
22 10: 02: 33 A. That computer, I don't believe I did. Well --
23 10: 02: 43 rephrase the question, please.
24 10: 02: 48 Q. Did you ever put a personally-owned hard drive
25 10: 02: 53 into the Panasonic Toughbook computer that was assigned
Page 38
1 10: 02: 56 to you?
2 10: 02: 57 A. The MDT computer?
3 10: 03: 01 Q. You say MDT, but it's the Panasonic Toughbook
4 10: 03: 05 computer that I'm referring to and that Inspector Cooley
5 10: 03: 08 was referring to.
6 10: 03: 09 A. That's what is commonly called MDT.
7 10: 03: 11 Q. Just so we're clear, we're talking about the
8 10: 03: 14 Panasonic Toughbook computer, do you understand that?
9 10: 03: 17 A. I do.
10 10: 03: 19 Q. Okay.
11 10: 03: 21 A. My recollection is that I furnished a hard drive
12 10: 03: 26 to County IT based on discussions. I can't -- I just
13 10: 03: 31 don't whether I installed the hard drive in that MDT or
14 10: 03: 35 not, the Panasonic Toughbook, CF-29 Panasonic Toughbook.
15 10: 03: 40 Q. When did you turn that in to the County?
16 10: 03: 44 A. October -- September, October of 2010 I think is
17 10: 03: 53 when the migration took place.
18 10: 03: 55 Q. So it's when the migration occurred?
19 10: 03: 57 A. Correct.
20 10: 03: 58 Q. Was it in the computer?
21 10: 04: 01 A. "It" meaning the hard drive?
22 10: 04: 03 Q. The hard drive, yes.
23 10: 04: 06 A. Near as I can recall, yes.
24 10: 04: 08 Q. Prior to the migration, had a personally-owned
25 10: 04: 18 hard drive ever resided in that Panasonic Toughbook
Page 39
1 10: 04: 23 computer?
2 10: 04: 24 A. I don't believe so.
3 10: 04: 27 Q. I want to draw your attention to Page 3 beginning
4 10: 04: 32 at Line 130. Are you there?
5 10: 04: 37 A. I am.
6 10: 04: 37 Q. Question: Okay. Tell me how it came to be that
7 10: 04: 44 a personal hard drive or a hard drive purchased by you
8 10: 04: 48 ended up in that computer?
9 10: 04: 52 Your answer: Let's see, when I came out of
10 10: 04: 56 detectives, Roff was rotating back in. I got Roff's car
11 10: 05: 03 and I got Roff's computer. And as I -- as near as I can
12 10: 05: 08 recall, I just remember thinking to myself, the -- the
13 10: 05: 13 capacity of the drive is too small.
15 10: 05: 20 A. Yes. Thinking out loud.
16 10: 05: 23 Q. And I said Roff, but the transcript says Roth,
17 10: 05: 30 R-O-T-H, but that's an error. We both agree with that?
18 10: 05: 33 A. Yes.
19 10: 05: 34 Q. So you were describing for Cooley the process of
20 10: 05: 39 deciding to replace the hard drive in the computer, the
21 10: 05: 45 Panasonic Toughbook computer; is that right?
22 10: 05: 48 A. I -- looks to me like I'm thinking out loud,
23 10: 05: 53 trying to walk myself through it to remember what it is
24 10: 05: 56 that I did.
25 10: 05: 57 Q. Then you went on. And this is -- begins at Page
Page 40
1 10: 06: 02 4, Line 136.
2 10: 06: 04 You say: I had already upgraded two computers up
3 10: 06: 09 to that point. IT didn't have a problem with that, and
4 10: 06: 14 I just thought, okay, well, maybe we'll just do the same
5 10: 06: 18 thing on this one, so I upgraded that hard drive to a --
6 10: 06: 23 and this is -- I just don't remember. It was -- I know
7 10: 06: 28 it was double the capacity. I can't remember if what
8 10: 06: 32 was in there was 40 and I put an 80 in or if it was a 20
9 10: 06: 37 and I put a 40 in. I don't recall.
10 10: 06: 40 So, again, you're describing in more detail the
11 10: 06: 43 process of replacing the original hard drive in that
12 10: 06: 47 Panasonic Toughbook computer with a personally-owned
13 10: 06: 51 hard drive; is that right?
14 10: 06: 56 A. I don't think I would characterize it that way,
15 10: 06: 58 no.
16 10: 06: 59 Q. How would you characterize it?
17 10: 07: 00 A. I would characterize it as me just being open and
18 10: 07: 03 trying to describe exactly what it is that I can recall.
19 10: 07: 06 Q. You weren't saying something that wasn't true?
20 10: 07: 13 A. I don't think that's the same thing.
21 10: 07: 15 Q. Today though you're saying you didn't put a hard
22 10: 07: 18 drive, personally-owned hard drive in that computer. So
23 10: 07: 21 that's different, isn't it?
24 10: 07: 23 A. Well, there's also some new information, so
25 10: 07: 27 there's some different understanding on my part compared
Page 41
1 10: 07: 30 to when this interview took place.
2 10: 07: 33 Q. But what you said at that time, under an
3 10: 07: 35 obligation to answer truthfully the questions were put
4 10: 07: 39 to you, was that you put a new -- a personally-owned
5 10: 07: 45 hard drive into that Toughbook computer, correct?
6 10: 07: 47 A. If you're asking me if I told the truth, the
7 10: 07: 50 answer is yes.
8 10: 07: 51 Q. So you did put a personally-owned Toughbook --
9 10: 07: 53 hard drive in that computer?
10 10: 07: 55 A. I don't think I knew is what it came down to. I
11 10: 08: 02 should not have answered the question that way. I don't
12 10: 08: 07 think I had a specific independent recollection of it,
13 10: 08: 12 which I believe was a mistake on my part. And I just
14 10: 08: 16 simply didn't remember.
15 10: 08: 20 Q. Cooley wasn't questioning you about any earlier
16 10: 08: 26 computers that were assigned to you, but you talked
17 10: 08: 28 about those in this answer, didn't you?
18 10: 08: 30 A. I did.
19 10: 08: 31 Q. And those were two other computers where you had
20 10: 08: 38 replaced the original County-owned hard drives with
21 10: 08: 41 personally-owned hard drives; is that right?
22 10: 08: 43 A. Yes.
23 10: 08: 46 Q. Was the Toughbook computer that you received from
24 10: 08: 55 Deputy Roff performing inadequately prior to the
25 10: 08: 59 migration in September, 2010?
Page 42
1 10: 09: 05 A. You'll have to define what you mean by
2 10: 09: 08 "performing."
3 10: 09: 09 Q. Well, by any measure that you would use to define
4 10: 09: 14 the performance of a computer of that sort, was it
5 10: 09: 18 performing inadequately in your opinion?
6 10: 09: 23 A. Nothing stands out as a problem. And really, the
7 10: 09: 29 only things I ever did have a problem with was just
8 10: 09: 34 storage size. There just wasn't enough memory.
9 10: 09: 37 Q. Did you have problems with storage size on that
10 10: 09: 40 Panasonic Toughbook computer prior to the September 2010
11 10: 09: 45 migration?
12 10: 09: 47 A. Specific independent recollection of that, I
13 10: 09: 50 don't have. I can speculate. But I don't recall.
14 10: 09: 56 Q. Did you add programs to that Panasonic Toughbook
15 10: 10: 01 computer prior to the migration in September, 2010?
16 10: 10: 05 A. That I am sure of, yes.
17 10: 10: 09 Q. And did you add also data files?
18 10: 10: 13 A. I did.
19 10: 10: 16 Q. At any point did the capacity of the original
20 10: 10: 21 hard drive become compromised because of the programs
21 10: 10: 25 and data that you were installing on it?
22 10: 10: 30 A. I believe so, but, again, that's speculation on
23 10: 10: 33 my part. I don't have an actual recollection of that.
24 10: 10: 36 Q. That would be a reason why you might decide to
25 10: 10: 43 upgrade the hard drive?
Page 43
1 10: 10: 45 A. Correct, yes.
2 10: 10: 46 Q. Had any other computer ever been transferred to
3 10: 10: 52 you from Deputy Roff?
4 10: 10: 54 A. From Roff, no.
5 10: 10: 57 Q. Did you find material on the computer that Roff
6 10: 11: 01 had installed that compromised the capacity of the hard
7 10: 11: 06 drive?
8 10: 11: 06 A. None that I recall.
9 10: 11: 15 Q. Was the laptop that was ultimately taken from you
10 10: 11: 29 in February, 2012 the only Panasonic Toughbook computer
11 10: 11: 34 that was ever assigned to you by the sheriff's office?
12 10: 11: 39 A. Assigned by name, yes. Yes, I think that there's
13 10: 11: 48 a chance I might have had a temporary one at some point,
14 10: 11: 51 but it was -- it was just a temporary interim use for a
15 10: 11: 56 day or two. I think there was something wrong with one
16 10: 12: 00 of mine at one point.
17 10: 12: 01 Q. From the time that you received the Panasonic
18 10: 12: 04 Toughbook computer from Deputy Roff until the migration
19 10: 12: 11 in September, 2010, did you allow other deputies to use
20 10: 12: 17 the Toughbook computer that was assigned to you?
21 10: 12: 22 A. If I did, I don't recall. I guess the correct
22 10: 12: 37 answer would be I don't know.
23 10: 12: 39 Q. If you intended to upgrade the hard drive in the
24 10: 12: 44 Panasonic Toughbook computer, is it correct that you
25 10: 12: 48 would have to duplicate or clone the original hard drive
Page 44
1 10: 12: 56 onto the new hard drive before it could be used for law
2 10: 13: 01 enforcement purposes?
3 10: 13: 03 A. Yeah, if I understand what you're asking, yes.
4 10: 13: 10 In order to make that happen, I believe so, yes.
5 10: 13: 13 Q. Did you tell other deputies that you had cloned
6 10: 13: 16 the hard drive in your computer?
7 10: 13: 18 A. I did.
8 10: 13: 19 Q. Why did you do that?
9 10: 13: 20 A. Because I did.
10 10: 13: 23 Q. When did you clone the hard drive in the
11 10: 13: 27 Panasonic computer?
12 10: 13: 28 A. Well, that's a presupposition that it's the
13 10: 13: 32 Panasonic computer. I probably was just mixing up
14 10: 13: 34 recollections, I guess. I did actually clone the
15 10: 13: 38 detective's computer that was assigned to me that Roff
16 10: 13: 42 later assumed. That would be the Dell Latitude. I did
17 10: 13: 47 clone that one.
18 10: 13: 48 Q. So when you told deputies at the migration in
19 10: 13: 57 2010 that you had cloned the hard drive on your
20 10: 14: 01 computer, you weren't referring to the Panasonic
21 10: 14: 05 Toughbook computer that was currently assigned to you?
22 10: 14: 08 A. When I told deputies at the migration...?
23 10: 14: 13 MS. BESCHEN: I t hi nk he means t he SECTOR
24 10: 14: 17 t r ai ni ng.
25 10: 14: 19 MR. KAMERRER: I ' mt al ki ng about t he
Page 45
1 10: 14: 20 mi gr at i on event i n Sept ember of 2010. I ' l l get t o t he
2 10: 14: 26 SECTOR t r ai ni ng i n a mi nut e.
3 10: 14: 27 A. You lost me then. Can you rephrase that, please?
4 10: 15: 49 (Discussion off the record.)
5 10: 15: 49 (Last question read.)
6 10: 15: 49 MS. BESCHEN: I ' mgoi ng t o obj ect t hat i t
7 10: 15: 51 assumes f act s not i n evi dence.
8 10: 15: 55 Q. Go ahead.
9 10: 15: 57 A. What deputy are we talking about?
10 10: 15: 59 Q. Deputies who were at the migration in September,
11 10: 16: 03 2010?
12 10: 16: 06 MS. BESCHEN: The mi gr at i on was j ust t hey
13 10: 16: 08 dr opped t hei r comput er s of f .
14 10: 16: 09 MR. KAMERRER: Wel l , you' r e answer i ng f or
15 10: 16: 11 hi m. He can answer t he quest i on.
16 10: 16: 12 Go ahead.
17 10: 16: 13 A. That's essentially my answer. There was no --
18 10: 16: 15 Q. What is your answer?
19 10: 16: 17 A. My answer is we didn't attend the migration.
20 10: 16: 19 Q. Okay.
21 10: 16: 19 How about at the SECTOR training when you told
22 10: 16: 22 deputies that you had cloned the hard drive in your
23 10: 16: 26 computer?
24 10: 16: 27 A. Oh, I think that was jokes that other people were
25 10: 16: 30 throwing around based on rumors.
Page 46
1 10: 16: 32 Q. Okay.
2 10: 16: 33 The SECTOR training was in February of 2012,
3 10: 16: 37 correct?
4 10: 16: 37 A. Yes.
5 10: 16: 38 Q. You went there with your Panasonic Toughbook
6 10: 16: 43 computer; is that right?
7 10: 16: 44 A. I did.
8 10: 16: 44 Q. And that computer had been the only Panasonic
9 10: 16: 49 Toughbook computer assigned to you, and it had been the
10 10: 16: 53 one you used since you returned to patrol duties in
11 10: 16: 59 January of 2008; is that right?
12 10: 17: 01 A. Yes.
13 10: 17: 01 Q. So for approximately four years prior to the
14 10: 17: 06 SECTOR training in February of 2012, your only
15 10: 17: 12 County-issued computer was the Panasonic Toughbook
16 10: 17: 16 computer; is that right?
17 10: 17: 17 A. Yes. I would agree with that.
18 10: 17: 19 Q. And did you tell deputies at that 2012 SECTOR
19 10: 17: 23 training that you had cloned your hard drive?
20 10: 17: 26 A. I think I was responding to deputies that were
21 10: 17: 30 ribbing me.
22 10: 17: 34 Q. Did you tell them that?
23 10: 17: 36 A. I probably did say those words, yes.
24 10: 17: 38 Q. And you were referring to a more than four years
25 10: 17: 43 past computer when you said that; is that correct?
Page 47
1 10: 17: 46 A. They were referring to something. I don't know
2 10: 17: 50 what. You'll have to ask them.
3 10: 17: 52 Q. Were they joking with you about it?
4 10: 17: 54 A. Absolutely they were.
5 10: 17: 55 Q. Were they laughing as they said that?
6 10: 17: 58 A. Yes, they were.
7 10: 17: 59 Q. Were you laughing as you said what you said?
8 10: 18: 02 A. At one point we were all laughing.
9 10: 18: 04 Q. So it was just kind of a joke?
10 10: 18: 06 A. It was kind of a joke, yes.
11 10: 18: 08 Q. Did you also tell them that you didn't want IT to
12 10: 18: 12 see what was on your computer?
13 10: 18: 13 A. Whether I said the words or not, I can't tell
14 10: 18: 18 you. If they're saying I said it, then I guess I said
15 10: 18: 21 it, but I would say that it's in the context of kind of
16 10: 18: 24 a joking, hah-hah-hah, Murphy doesn't want anybody
17 10: 18: 28 looking at his computer, they might plant democrat files
18 10: 18: 32 on there kind of thing.
19 10: 18: 34 It was -- it's not what it's been made out to be.
20 10: 18: 39 Q. Why didn't you want IT to see your computer as of
21 10: 18: 46 February, 2012?
22 10: 18: 48 A. Well, there definitely was information on the
23 10: 18: 53 computer that I didn't want distributed beyond my
24 10: 18: 59 control.
25 10: 19: 02 Q. What was that information?
Page 48
1 10: 19: 04 A. I would say primarily outlaw motorcycle gang
2 10: 19: 08 information but maybe some family pictures. I don't
3 10: 19: 12 know, emails, whatever. Just personal private stuff.
4 10: 19: 19 Q. Were you assigned to investigate outlaw
5 10: 19: 24 motorcycle gangs?
6 10: 19: 26 A. I was not.
7 10: 19: 26 Q. Was that a hobby of yours?
8 10: 19: 29 A. That's probably a good description.
9 10: 19: 33 Q. And you were installing that kind of information
10 10: 19: 38 on your office-owned Panasonic Toughbook computer; is
11 10: 19: 44 that correct?
12 10: 19: 44 A. I was using a computer what a computer is used
13 10: 19: 48 for, yes.
14 10: 19: 49 Q. Were any of those people who were represented as
15 10: 19: 56 part of outlaw motorcycle gang membership or activities
16 10: 20: 01 ever prosecuted in Whatcom County?
17 10: 20: 03 A. Absolutely. Maybe I answered too fast on that.
18 10: 20: 18 You asked if they were ever prosecuted in Whatcom County
19 10: 20: 22 as outlaw motorcycle gang members?
20 10: 20: 24 Q. Well, as criminals.
21 10: 20: 26 A. Yes.
22 10: 20: 26 Q. Were any of them prosecuted in other
23 10: 20: 29 jurisdictions?
24 10: 20: 29 A. Yes.
25 10: 20: 30 Q. What was the nature of the information that you
Page 49
1 10: 20: 38 had on your Panasonic Toughbook computer pertaining to
2 10: 20: 43 those people?
3 10: 20: 44 MS. BESCHEN: Obj ect i on; vague.
4 10: 20: 45 You can answer .
5 10: 20: 46 A. Can you clarify that, please?
6 10: 20: 49 Q. Well, I don't think it's vague. Take a crack at
7 10: 20: 52 it.
8 10: 20: 53 A. Maybe restate it.
9 10: 20: 57 Q. What kind of information on the people who were
10 10: 21: 02 members of outlaw motorcycle gangs did you have on your
11 10: 21: 07 Panasonic computer?
12 10: 21: 08 A. I had what I would consider to be unique
13 10: 21: 11 information. Proprietary is not the right word, but
14 10: 21: 17 it's along the lines of kind of being proprietary. It's
15 10: 21: 21 based on field observations as opposed to based on
16 10: 21: 25 databases.
17 10: 21: 26 So we had, I thought, pretty good information as
18 10: 21: 30 it relates to names and members and -- but it's all
19 10: 21: 34 based on the I-520 information that comes from reports
20 10: 21: 38 and it comes from court data, comes from -- whatever you
21 10: 21: 43 can find in a computer database.
22 10: 21: 45 My information is different.
23 10: 21: 46 Q. Okay. Unique, is that what you mean, unique?
24 10: 21: 50 A. Yes.
25 10: 21: 51 Q. When you say "proprietary," you didn't have a
Page 50
1 10: 21: 54 business that was involved with outlaw motorcycle gangs,
2 10: 21: 58 did you?
3 10: 21: 58 A. No. That's a poor choice of words.
4 10: 22: 01 "Unique." Let's just go with "unique."
5 10: 22: 04 Q. Did it include photographs?
6 10: 22: 06 A. Probably, yes.
7 10: 22: 08 Q. Did it include names associated with those
8 10: 22: 11 photographs?
9 10: 22: 11 A. I think so.
10 10: 22: 13 Q. Did it have information on observation of
11 10: 22: 18 activities by those people, those outlaw motorcycle gang
12 10: 22: 24 people?
13 10: 22: 24 A. I think that would probably be the more important
14 10: 22: 27 part of it.
15 10: 22: 28 Q. Was it in the computer?
16 10: 22: 29 A. I believe so, yes.
17 10: 22: 31 Q. Did it contain information pertaining to their
18 10: 22: 35 guilt or innocence of any crime?
19 10: 22: 37 A. Guilt or innocence of a crime, no, because it's
20 10: 22: 43 not a crime to belong to any organization, even a
21 10: 22: 48 motorcycle organization.
22 10: 22: 49 However, courts have determined that certain
23 10: 22: 53 clubs are criminal organizations. So I'm not sure if
24 10: 22: 58 that answers the question or not, but...
25 10: 23: 00 Q. What outlaw motorcycle gangs that were criminal
Page 51
1 10: 23: 06 organizations did you have information on?
2 10: 23: 09 A. Any what I would consider to be a one percenter
3 10: 23: 16 gang, a puppet club, affiliate club or support club of
4 10: 23: 21 the bigger one percenter clubs, which is the whole
5 10: 23: 24 spectrum.
6 10: 23: 25 Q. Did any of those operate in Whatcom County?
7 10: 23: 28 A. Absolutely, yes.
8 10: 23: 29 Q. Which ones? Do they have names of gangs?
9 10: 23: 32 A. Banditos is a big one. But that's the -- I would
10 10: 23: 35 say that's the more commonly known one. But we had
11 10: 23: 38 Hell's Angels activity in Whatcom County as well.
12 10: 23: 41 Q. Have any members of the Banditos Motorcycle Club
13 10: 23: 45 been prosecuted in Whatcom County?
14 10: 23: 47 A. Prosecuted as Banditos.
15 10: 23: 50 Q. Well, as criminals.
16 10: 23: 52 A. Oh, yes, absolutely.
17 10: 23: 55 Q. Did you have any information pertaining to those
18 10: 23: 57 prosecutions?
19 10: 23: 58 A. I don't think so because I think my information
20 10: 24: 05 gathering or intel or observations wasn't really focused
21 10: 24: 11 on that aspect. I mean, we already have the County's
22 10: 24: 14 I-520 system that I could bring up with just a few
23 10: 24: 18 keystrokes, so I don't know why I would duplicate that.
24 10: 24: 22 Q. Would you bring up I-520 information and draw
25 10: 24: 29 relationships or correlations between things you had
Page 52
1 10: 24: 34 observed and the information from the I-520 source?
2 10: 24: 40 A. Yes.
3 10: 24: 40 Q. So it was like analysis, would that be correct?
4 10: 24: 47 A. There is certainly an analytical component to it,
5 10: 24: 52 because it's based on my understanding of what -- what
6 10: 24: 56 it is that I'm observing, that I think most people
7 10: 24: 59 probably wouldn't understand.
8 10: 25: 00 Q. Okay.
9 10: 25: 01 Did it pertain to whether those people had
10 10: 25: 05 committed a crime or not?
11 10: 25: 07 A. I think it pertains to a specific identifiable
12 10: 25: 15 crime, no, but the tendency towards or the propensity
13 10: 25: 22 towards organized crime, absolutely and that's the whole
14 10: 25: 27 point of keeping those sort of notes.
15 10: 25: 30 Q. Where is that information now?
16 10: 25: 32 A. Well, they took the computer, so wherever the
17 10: 25: 36 computer is at.
18 10: 25: 37 Q. Did you ever download that to any other storage
19 10: 25: 41 device?
20 10: 25: 43 A. Probably.
21 10: 25: 44 Q. And what kind of storage device?
22 10: 25: 48 A. A flash -- maybe a flash drive. It was sent via
23 10: 25: 51 email. In fact, the County actually gave some of it
24 10: 25: 55 back to me via public disclosure.
25 10: 25: 57 Q. Did you retain the storage device that had that
Page 53
1 10: 26: 00 information?
2 10: 26: 01 A. Yes.
3 10: 26: 02 Q. Or devices. Were there more than one?
4 10: 26: 05 A. There's at least one flash drive, maybe two.
5 10: 26: 13 Q. And you still have those?
6 10: 26: 15 A. Yes.
7 10: 26: 16 Q. Did you install any of that information on a hard
8 10: 26: 22 drive that you had cloned from some county computer?
9 10: 26: 31 A. Are you asking me if I have a county cloned
10 10: 26: 35 computer? If you are, the answer is no.
11 10: 26: 38 Q. I asked if you had installed that information on
12 10: 26: 43 any hard drive that you had cloned from a county
13 10: 26: 47 computer.
14 10: 26: 49 A. If I have installed that -- sounds to me like
15 10: 26: 52 you're asking me if I have never cloned County computer
16 10: 26: 56 drive, and I don't.
17 10: 26: 57 Q. Well, there's two cloned hard drives every time
18 10: 27: 00 someone clones one. There's the original and there is
19 10: 27: 04 the new one; is that right?
20 10: 27: 05 A. Well, if I'm -- if I'm right in what that hard
21 10: 27: 08 drive is right there, there it is right there.
22 10: 27: 11 Q. Which one is it?
23 10: 27: 16 A. And I say "if I'm right," because I don't have a
24 10: 27: 19 way to know.
25 10: 27: 19 Q. Are you referring to this hard drive?
Page 54
1 10: 27: 21 A. Yes.
2 10: 27: 22 Q. Would you just hold that up so that it's on the
3 10: 27: 25 screen there. And just -- is it a Hitachi?
4 10: 27: 29 A. It's a Hitachi Travel Star 40 gigabyte SATA
5 10: 27: 40 drive.
6 10: 27: 40 Q. Where did that come from?
7 10: 27: 41 A. I believe -- well, do I know? I don't know.
8 10: 27: 50 Q. Where do you think it came from?
9 10: 27: 52 A. I think it came out of the Dell Latitude that
10 10: 27: 56 Deputy Roff has now.
11 10: 27: 57 Q. So that's County property?
12 10: 28: 00 A. If I'm right. So I -- to answer your question,
13 10: 28: 05 though, I don't know that that's County property.
14 10: 28: 08 Because the County has been unable to identify what it
15 10: 28: 11 is that I'm supposed to have.
16 10: 28: 13 Q. How many laptop compatible hard drives do you
17 10: 28: 19 have in your collection?
18 10: 28: 22 A. Well, I brought those three. There's a --
19 10: 28: 27 there's a fourth one that is actually in my old laptop,
20 10: 28: 31 and I think that's probably the hard drive that came
21 10: 28: 33 with that laptop. So I didn't bring that because I
22 10: 28: 37 would actually have to take the laptop apart to bring
23 10: 28: 41 it. But it's the first -- it's the first laptop that I
24 10: 28: 45 ever started using on patrol. In fact, I was probably
25 10: 28: 51 amongst the first to be using a patrol car mounted
Page 55
1 10: 28: 51 laptop --
2 10: 28: 51 THE REPORTER: " I n f act , I was pr obabl y" . . . ?
3 10: 28: 51 J ust r epeat what you sai d.
4 10: 28: 55 A. I was probably amongst the first, if not the
5 10: 28: 57 first, to use a patrol car mounted laptop at the Whatcom
6 10: 29: 03 County Sheriff's Office. So that laptop is my -- that's
7 10: 29: 05 my personal computer before I was issued one. That's
8 10: 29: 08 the one that's missing. So there would be four total.
9 10: 29: 16 So I brought -- those three hard drives that are
10 10: 29: 24 right there in front of you, those are
11 10: 29: 26 two-and-a-half-inch hard drives. That would be what's
12 10: 29: 33 considered to be the -- the typical laptop sized hard
13 10: 29: 38 drive. I did not bring the three-and-a-half-inch
14 10: 29: 42 drives, which are considered to be the larger desktop
15 10: 29: 46 drives, because those are all just my junk drives.
16 10: 29: 51 Q. They're not compatible with a laptop computer?
17 10: 29: 54 A. Correct.
18 10: 29: 54 Q. Do you know what the capacity is of this hard
19 10: 29: 59 drive?
20 10: 30: 00 A. I don't. I think it's a -- the piece that's
21 10: 30: 09 inside will pull out. I think it's a Seagate 200. I
22 10: 30: 17 can't remember. (Witness reviews hard drive.)
23 10: 30: 51 This is a Seagate 320.
24 10: 30: 55 Q. What's the gigabyte size?
25 10: 30: 59 A. 320.
Page 56
1 10: 31: 03 Q. Gigabytes?
2 10: 31: 04 A. Yeah. Yes.
3 10: 31: 07 Q. All right.
4 10: 31: 12 Could we see those three pieces? Thank you.
5 10: 31: 21 This particular hard drive enclosure, is that
6 10: 31: 23 something that is purchased to use as an external hard
7 10: 31: 28 drive and it contains a hard drive in it, or is it a box
8 10: 31: 35 that you buy to put a hard drive into?
9 10: 31: 42 A. Yes, and yes.
10 10: 31: 43 Q. Okay.
11 10: 31: 43 Did that come with a hard drive in it?
12 10: 31: 45 A. I don't think it did.
13 10: 31: 47 Q. Okay.
14 10: 31: 47 So you put a hard drive into it?
15 10: 31: 49 A. I did, yes.
16 10: 31: 51 Q. That allows you to sit that on a desk, connect it
17 10: 31: 55 to a computer and have a semi-portable additional hard
18 10: 31: 59 drive; is that right?
19 10: 32: 00 A. Yes. I guess the idea would be sort of a large
20 10: 32: 08 flash drive --
21 10: 32: 08 Q. Okay.
22 10: 32: 10 A. -- because at one time, especially -- well,
23 10: 32: 14 during the time in detectives, I think the biggest flash
24 10: 32: 17 drive I could find was, like, a 16 meg.
25 10: 32: 20 Q. And this is a 250 gigabyte hard drive?
Page 57
1 10: 32: 24 A. Yes. So you can't -- the first -- the first
2 10: 32: 29 flash drive I had, it was small. I don't remember the
3 10: 32: 37 exact size, but it was very tiny. I mean, you couldn't
4 10: 32: 40 -- you really couldn't put video on it, you couldn't put
5 10: 32: 43 audio on it, you couldn't put large picture files on it.
6 10: 32: 47 You could put basically report documents and time sheets
7 10: 32: 50 and that was about it. So this was the idea, the idea
8 10: 32: 54 was to have a larger way of storing your backup stuff.
9 10: 33: 01 Q. Have either of the 250 gigabyte hard drive or the
10 10: 33: 06 320 gigabyte hard drive ever been installed in a
11 10: 33: 10 County-owned computer?
12 10: 33: 10 A. Installed in, no. Connected to, possibly.
13 10: 33: 10 Q. Okay.
14 10: 33: 17 A. Like a USB.
15 10: 33: 19 MS. BESCHEN: Woul d t hi s be a good t i me f or
16 10: 33: 23 a br eak?
17 10: 33: 24 MR. KAMERRER: Sur e.
18 10: 33: 25 THE VI DEOGRAPHER: Okay. We' r e goi ng of f
19 10: 33: 26 t he r ecor d at 10: 33 a. m.
20 10: 33: 31 ( Pause i n t he pr oceedi ngs. )
21 10: 49: 47 THE VI DEOGRAPHER: We ar e back on t he r ecor d
22 10: 49: 50 at 10: 49 a. m.
23 10: 49: 54 Q. I want to go back to Exhibit No. 7, Mr. Murphy,
24 10: 50: 14 that's the transcript of the March 1, 2012 interview and
25 10: 50: 27 Page 12. Did I say that?
Page 58
1 10: 50: 39 A. (Witness reviews document.) Okay.
2 10: 50: 44 Q. I want to go to Line 512, read a portion of it,
3 10: 50: 52 and then I'll ask you a question. First word is "okay,"
4 10: 51: 00 do you see that?
5 10: 51: 00 A. I do.
6 10: 51: 01 Q. "Okay. The drive that you removed from the
7 10: 51: 05 laptop from the Toughbook that you now know -- don't
8 10: 51: 11 know where it is, did you ever use it for anything, did
9 10: 51: 15 you connect it to any other computers, did you -- did
10 10: 51: 20 you make use of it in any other way?"
11 10: 51: 25 And then your answer is: The drive that was in
12 10: 51: 29 there?
13 10: 51: 30 Question: Correct.
14 10: 51: 32 Answer: It's backup. If it's -- if it's -- if
15 10: 51: 39 it is still a backup.
16 10: 51: 43 And then question: Sounds like a nonverbal
17 10: 51: 46 uh-huh or uh-huh comment by Cooley.
18 10: 51: 54 Answer: Yeah, I would have had to connect it for
19 10: 51: 58 backup purposes.
21 10: 52: 03 A. Looks right to me.
22 10: 52: 06 Q. So you're telling him that the drive you had
23 10: 52: 06 earlier told him had been removed from the Panasonic
24 10: 52: 06 Toughbook computer --
25 10: 52: 06 THE REPORTER: I ' msor r y. I f el l behi nd.
Page 59
1 10: 52: 19 " So you' r e t el l i ng hi mt hat t he dr i ve" . . . ?
2 10: 52: 19 MR. KAMERRER: Okay.
3 10: 52: 19 THE REPORTER: Sor r y.
4 10: 52: 19 MR. KAMERRER: That ' s okay.
5 10: 52: 20 Q. You are telling Cooley that the drive you had
6 10: 52: 23 earlier said had been removed from the laptop, the
7 10: 52: 27 Toughbook, could be used as a backup drive; is that
8 10: 52: 36 correct?
9 10: 52: 36 A. If there's some other way to read that, I'm
10 10: 52: 45 missing it.
11 10: 52: 46 Q. Okay.
12 10: 52: 46 And so that means it could be put into something
13 10: 52: 48 like this little box you have here today?
14 10: 52: 50 A. Yes.
15 10: 52: 50 Q. And connected to a computer and used as a -- as a
16 10: 52: 54 substitute additional storage device?
17 10: 52: 57 A. Yes.
18 10: 53: 00 Q. Then the questioning on Page 12 continues on Line
19 10: 53: 10 527 where Cooley asks: Okay. Let me back up a little
20 10: 53: 16 bit. So describe to me the process that you used, how
21 10: 53: 20 to --
22 10: 53: 22 Answer: I don't know where the drive is.
23 10: 53: 25 Question: Okay. I understand.
24 10: 53: 28 Answer: Because I don't know where it's at. I
25 10: 53: 31 can't tell you for sure what it is.
Page 60
1 10: 53: 35 Question: Okay. Understand.
2 10: 53: 37 Answer: I'm confident I have it.
4 10: 53: 42 A. Looks right to me.
5 10: 53: 44 Q. So again, you're telling Cooley that the hard
6 10: 53: 52 drive you earlier told him had been removed from the
7 10: 53: 55 Toughbook computer was one that you were confident you
8 10: 53: 58 still had; is that right?
9 10: 54: 00 A. I don't think that's -- those are definitely the
10 10: 54: 11 words, but I don't think that's really the intent.
11 10: 54: 14 Q. What was the intent?
12 10: 54: 15 A. I think I'm trying to tell him that if I have --
13 10: 54: 18 if I did take that laptop hard drive out, I would still
14 10: 54: 21 have it. I think I'm clearly speculating.
15 10: 54: 27 Q. At any time in the March 1 interview that you
16 10: 54: 31 recall, did you tell Cooley you were uncertain whether
17 10: 54: 35 you had removed the hard drive that was originally part
18 10: 54: 39 of the Toughbook computer?
19 10: 54: 41 A. Yeah, I think so.
20 10: 54: 46 Q. You think you did in the March 1, 2012 interview?
21 10: 54: 54 A. Without going through the whole transcript again,
22 10: 54: 56 yeah, I think I'm basically -- I think I'm clearly
23 10: 55: 00 speculating about the disposition of it or what exactly
24 10: 55: 03 I did.
25 10: 55: 04 Q. Were you speculating when you said "I'm confident
Page 61
1 10: 55: 08 I still have it"?
2 10: 55: 12 A. I was speculating about whether I have it or not.
3 10: 55: 16 I don't think I was speculating about -- rephrase that.
4 10: 55: 22 I'm clearly speculating whether or not I would
5 10: 55: 25 have taken it out.
6 10: 55: 26 Q. Were the words of your answer on Page 12 at the
7 10: 55: 30 bottom, Answer: I'm confident I have it, was that
8 10: 55: 36 speculation?
9 10: 55: 37 A. Those are my words.
10 10: 55: 39 Q. Was it speculation?
11 10: 55: 41 A. Again, I think I'm clearly saying that if I did
12 10: 55: 45 remove that hard drive, I would have it.
13 10: 55: 50 Q. Turn to Page 14.
15 10: 55: 54 Q. Strike that question. It wasn't really a
16 10: 56: 49 question, but I'm going to move on to something else.
17 10: 57: 03 Has anyone reported to you that Sheriff Elfo has
18 10: 57: 11 told them he terminated you for political reasons or
19 10: 57: 17 first amendment-type reasons?
20 10: 57: 22 A. I think I figured that one out for myself, but
21 10: 57: 26 no.
22 10: 57: 26 Q. Has anyone reported to you that Sheriff Elfo has
23 10: 57: 33 said you were terminated because you were politically
24 10: 57: 36 outspoken?
25 10: 57: 37 A. Specifically for that reason, not that I'm aware
Page 62
1 10: 57: 45 of.
2 10: 57: 47 Q. Has anyone reported to you that Sheriff Elfo told
3 10: 57: 50 them that he terminated you because you were critical of
4 10: 57: 55 Inspector Cooley?
5 10: 57: 57 A. Specifically not that I'm aware of.
6 10: 58: 01 Q. Do you know of any witnesses who have said that
7 10: 58: 11 Sheriff Elfo has said anything or written anything that
8 10: 58: 15 supports your conclusions and claims as they're stated
9 10: 58: 21 in your complaint?
10 10: 58: 22 A. Me.
11 10: 58: 25 Q. Okay. Anyone else?
12 10: 58: 26 A. Not that I'm aware of.
13 10: 58: 30 Q. Who would you like to see come to trial and
14 10: 58: 38 testify in support of you?
15 10: 58: 42 A. Anybody that has information to offer that
16 10: 58: 47 corroborates what I've reported.
17 10: 58: 48 Q. And who would those people be?
18 10: 58: 49 A. I think there is a list of people that -- I think
19 10: 58: 56 it's just about everybody, actually, everybody that was
20 10: 58: 59 at the SECTOR training, people that I worked with on
21 10: 59: 04 shift, on that particular shift, grave shift. I mean,
22 10: 59: 11 you talk to everybody pretty much at one time or
23 10: 59: 14 another, so could be anybody.
24 10: 59: 16 Q. And what did they say that is supportive of your
25 10: 59: 19 claims?
Page 63
1 10: 59: 20 A. You'd have to ask them.
2 10: 59: 21 Q. You don't know?
3 10: 59: 22 A. I don't.
4 10: 59: 23 Q. You haven't talked to them?
5 10: 59: 24 A. I have not.
6 10: 59: 25 Q. Do you know of anyone who is supportive of your
7 10: 59: 34 claims in this lawsuit who has facts that support those
8 10: 59: 39 claims?
9 10: 59: 40 A. Steve Harris would be one for sure.
10 10: 59: 43 Q. Okay.
11 10: 59: 48 A. Depending on what facts you're talking about,
12 10: 59: 51 that could be just about anybody.
13 10: 59: 56 Q. Well, I earlier asked you about whether anyone
14 10: 59: 59 has reported to you that they've had a conversation with
15 11: 00: 03 Sheriff Elfo and he said anything negative about you
16 11: 00: 10 that relates to the claims in this case.
17 11: 00: 12 A. It would be speculation on my part.
18 11: 00: 14 Q. Okay.
19 11: 00: 14 You don't know of anyone that would say something
20 11: 00: 16 like that?
21 11: 00: 17 A. Oh, I do, but it's speculation on my part.
22 11: 00: 20 Q. Who is that?
23 11: 00: 21 A. Do you want me to speculate?
24 11: 00: 25 Q. I want you to answer the question.
25 11: 00: 27 A. I need to know whether you're asking me for what
Page 64
1 11: 00: 29 I know of independent recollection or what I know of my
2 11: 00: 33 own speculation.
3 11: 00: 34 Q. Well, I want to know who you know who has any
4 11: 00: 39 kind of factual information that is supportive of your
5 11: 00: 42 claims. I'm not asking you to guess that somebody might
6 11: 00: 48 have information, I'm asking you to tell me who has said
7 11: 00: 53 something supportive of your claims that is contrary to
8 11: 01: 01 legitimate reasons that Sheriff Elfo has given for your
9 11: 01: 05 termination.
10 11: 01: 05 MS. BESCHEN: And j ust t o cl ar i f y, ar e you
11 11: 01: 07 aski ng peopl e who have sai d t hi ngs t o Paul di r ect l y; i s
12 11: 01: 13 t hat cor r ect ?
13 11: 01: 13 MR. KAMERRER: Wel l , not necessar i l y sai d,
14 11: 01: 15 per haps wr i t t en or . . .
15 11: 01: 19 A. If I understand what you're asking me, I would --
16 11: 01: 22 I mean, I could go through the list of deputies if you
17 11: 01: 25 want. I don't know what we're going to gain by that.
18 11: 01: 28 But Keith Linderman, for example.
19 11: 01: 28 THE REPORTER: Kei t h. . . ?
20 11: 01: 32 THE WI TNESS: Li nder man, L- I - N- D- E- R- M- A- N.
21 11: 01: 35 Q. What does he say?
22 11: 01: 36 A. Keith Linderman made the comment in one of the --
23 11: 01: 43 whether it was an interview transcript or a summary
24 11: 01: 48 memo, I don't remember where I read it, but apparently
25 11: 01: 51 Keith Linderman made the comment that he remembers
Page 65
1 11: 01: 53 people joking and ribbing about people planting democrat
2 11: 01: 57 party files on my computer. Which I think would go to
3 11: 02: 01 corroborate that there was kind of a jovial joking
4 11: 02: 05 atmosphere going on about my computer.
5 11: 02: 07 Q. That would have been at the time of the SECTOR
6 11: 02: 09 training in 2012?
7 11: 02: 10 A. Yes.
8 11: 02: 12 Q. Anything else that is similar to that?
9 11: 02: 18 A. John Dahlquest -- John Dahlquest at the SECTOR
10 11: 02: 26 training I asked him if he could look into installing
11 11: 02: 30 some crime scene software that I couldn't install. And
12 11: 02: 34 he I thought was pretty cordial about it and said that
13 11: 02: 38 he could, that I would have to either call to make an
14 11: 02: 44 appointment or something like that, but that he could do
15 11: 02: 46 that. I thought that was supportive of my -- at least
16 11: 02: 51 my contention that I wasn't behaving oddly, I wasn't
17 11: 02: 56 being bizarre, I wasn't doing some of the things that
18 11: 02: 58 had been claimed by Deputy Funk and Deputy Scott.
19 11: 03: 04 Q. Did you know that Dahlquest would install
20 11: 03: 08 software for any deputy?
21 11: 03: 10 A. I don't know that I ever really thought about it
22 11: 03: 13 that way. We had been told that the computers were
23 11: 03: 17 locked down and we had been told that really don't try
24 11: 03: 21 asking because they're just going to throw the stonewall
25 11: 03: 26 up and they're going to tell you no. But I thought I
Page 66
1 11: 03: 29 knew John well enough that I could ask him. He said he
2 11: 03: 32 would.
3 11: 03: 33 Q. Is there anyone else who has information that's
4 11: 03: 37 factual in nature and is supportive of your claims?
5 11: 03: 43 A. I would imagine everybody at SECTOR class heard
6 11: 03: 48 Roger Funk's comments, very off color derogatory
7 11: 03: 53 comments about drunken Indians that I found highly
8 11: 03: 57 offensive that so no one bothered to look into.
9 11: 04: 01 Q. What did Roger Funk say in that regard?
10 11: 04: 05 A. Roger -- we were talking about -- SECTOR -- back
11 11: 04: 08 up several steps.
12 11: 04: 10 SECTOR is a computerized ticketing system, so
13 11: 04: 13 you're talking about traffic situations, you're talking
14 11: 04: 15 about DUIs, criminal -- criminal traffic investigations,
15 11: 04: 19 those sorts of things. Well, towards the later end of
16 11: 04: 23 the class we get to talking about how SECTOR is used for
17 11: 04: 26 DUIs and somebody makes a wisecrack about -- I don't
18 11: 04: 30 think I actually heard what the first wisecrack was, but
19 11: 04: 34 the -- it was something along the lines of drunken
20 11: 04: 36 Indians on Lummi Reservation.
21 11: 04: 36 THE REPORTER: On what r eser vat i on?
22 11: 04: 36 THE WI TNESS: Lummi Reser vat i on.
23 11: 04: 43 A. And Roger Funk quipped -- he quipped back and it
24 11: 04: 48 was just the Hah-hah-hah-hah, well, it's a good thing
25 11: 04: 52 you weren't in the last class, hah-hah-hah-hah, talking
Page 67
1 11: 04: 56 about comments that were being made about drunken
2 11: 04: 58 Indians. And it, frankly, pissed me off.
3 11: 05: 01 Q. Whose comments were -- who was Funk's -- who were
4 11: 05: 09 Funk's comments directed to?
5 11: 05: 15 A. I don't know. He's in front of the class.
6 11: 05: 17 Q. Was he speaking to you?
7 11: 05: 19 A. He wasn't speaking directly to me, that I'm aware
8 11: 05: 22 of.
9 11: 05: 22 Q. Steve Harris, what does he say that is factually
10 11: 05: 31 supportive of your claims?
11 11: 05: 32 A. That I was very supportive of him during the
12 11: 05: 36 campaign, 2011 campaign, that I was very vocal about my
13 11: 05: 46 -- my right to political speech, that I had a lot of
14 11: 05: 51 things to say in regards to various claims that had been
15 11: 05: 54 made by members of the campaign at that time. Just in
16 11: 06: 02 general a lot of corroborating points on how the
17 11: 06: 07 election cycle went and who I supported and why I
18 11: 06: 11 supported them.
19 11: 06: 12 Q. Did Harris ever tell you that your support for
20 11: 06: 15 him was detrimental to his campaign?
21 11: 06: 18 A. No.
22 11: 06: 20 Q. You realize that in the last election cycle that
23 11: 06: 26 Sheriff Elfo received 75 percent of the votes of the
24 11: 06: 30 County?
25 11: 06: 30 A. I'm aware of that.
Page 68
1 11: 06: 32 Q. And he received 80 percent of the deputies who
2 11: 06: 36 endorsed him as a candidate?
3 11: 06: 38 A. I am aware of that. I am also aware that about
4 11: 06: 42 six months prior to that most of the deputies were not
5 11: 06: 47 supportive.
6 11: 06: 47 Q. And in the ensuing six months you were actively
7 11: 06: 51 blogging your opposition to Sheriff Elfo?
8 11: 06: 56 MS. BESCHEN: I s t hat a quest i on?
9 11: 06: 58 Q. Is that right?
10 11: 07: 00 A. Depends on how you define "actively blogging."
11 11: 07: 06 Commenting, certainly.
12 11: 07: 07 Q. And your comments were always negative about
13 11: 07: 10 Sheriff Elfo, weren't they?
14 11: 07: 11 A. I don't know that I agree with that.
15 11: 07: 15 Q. You depicted him in various cartoons, didn't you?
16 11: 07: 19 A. I thought that was funny.
17 11: 07: 21 Q. And you depicted him as a cartoon character with
18 11: 07: 32 the words "corrupt" and "millions missing" implying that
19 11: 07: 41 he was somehow responsible for jail funding issues; is
20 11: 07: 45 that right?
21 11: 07: 45 A. Those millions still are missing.
22 11: 07: 47 Q. Is that right?
23 11: 07: 48 A. I believe so, yes.
24 11: 07: 50 Q. That you depicted Sheriff Elfo in that fashion?
25 11: 07: 52 A. I don't think I said anything that didn't have a
Page 69
1 11: 08: 00 basis in fact.
2 11: 08: 01 Q. How has Sheriff Elfo committed corruption?
3 11: 08: 05 A. My situation is a perfect example. A guy that
4 11: 08: 09 stands up for the right things, tries do the right
5 11: 08: 11 things for the right reasons winds up becoming a target
6 11: 08: 15 for elimination.
7 11: 08: 17 Q. Is that it?
8 11: 08: 18 A. I think --
9 11: 08: 19 Q. Is there anything else that you consider to be
10 11: 08: 21 corruption?
11 11: 08: 22 A. There was a significant investigation involving
12 11: 08: 26 electronic home monitoring fraud that I thought we had
13 11: 08: 31 done a pretty good job on. It was a joint -- kind of a
14 11: 08: 36 joint investigation between our office at that time and
15 11: 08: 40 the FBI, and I felt like we were doing a really, really
16 11: 08: 46 good job on that. And then boom, like that, the carpet
17 11: 08: 50 is pulled out from under me, the case made to go away
18 11: 08: 53 and nobody will talk about it from that point on, and I
19 11: 08: 56 can only presume that that came from the top.
20 11: 08: 59 Q. Did you ever turn in a report relating to the
21 11: 09: 03 electronic home monitoring investigation where you
22 11: 09: 08 recommended the prosecution of any particular persons?
23 11: 09: 10 A. I never turned in a finalized report, but I did
24 11: 09: 15 have a running narrative of the -- my involvement in
25 11: 09: 18 that case.
Page 70
1 11: 09: 18 Q. Did you identify any people as -- that you
2 11: 09: 22 thought there was probable cause to prosecute for a
3 11: 09: 25 crime?
4 11: 09: 25 A. I did.
5 11: 09: 25 Q. Who?
6 11: 09: 26 A. Some of the names escape me. It's been -- it's
7 11: 09: 34 been a few years. But Angie Luke was one.
8 11: 09: 37 Q. And who is that?
9 11: 09: 38 A. Our local bail bond outfit lady.
10 11: 09: 41 Q. What crime did you think she had commented?
11 11: 09: 44 A. She fraudulently submitted affidavits of
12 11: 09: 47 compliance to the courts.
13 11: 09: 50 Q. Did you make a recommendation that she be
14 11: 09: 52 prosecuted?
15 11: 09: 53 A. Well, we never got to that point. That's my
16 11: 09: 56 point. The case was made to go away. It just
17 11: 09: 58 disappeared.
18 11: 09: 59 Q. Actually, it was assumed by the FBI, wasn't it?
19 11: 10: 01 A. That's the story that's being told. That's not
20 11: 10: 04 the truth.
21 11: 10: 04 Q. Why is that not true?
22 11: 10: 06 A. Because of in -- in my involvement with Jim
23 11: 10: 12 Powers, who was the FBI agent assigned at the time, we
24 11: 10: 15 had a concurrent investigation for probably five, six
25 11: 10: 19 months, and it culminated in essentially -- over a
Page 71
1 11: 10: 26 period of time it was -- it was the typical
2 11: 10: 28 investigative steps of checking information, sourcing
3 11: 10: 32 information, researching databases, acquiring evidence,
4 11: 10: 38 the typical things that do you in an investigation.
5 11: 10: 40 So we felt like we had got -- developed a pretty
6 11: 10: 44 good case. So the final conversation I recall was a
7 11: 10: 49 meeting between myself, Powers, and McFadden where we
8 11: 10: 54 started formulating a plan to put together a search
9 11: 10: 59 warrant. We were going to make some arrests, and we
10 11: 11: 02 were going to seize some records from one of the bail
11 11: 11: 05 bond outfits. And in the middle of that, I don't
12 11: 11: 08 know -- to this day I don't know what happened. In the
13 11: 11: 11 middle of that, the whole thing is made to go away.
14 11: 11: 13 Q. Who was it that you were going to issue the
15 11: 11: 16 search warrants for?
16 11: 11: 18 A. Again, I -- names are -- there was a list of
17 11: 11: 23 outfits that we felt had been pretty adequately
18 11: 11: 27 demonstrated to have falsified affidavits to the court.
19 11: 11: 31 I believe All City Bail was one. And Angie Luke, I
20 11: 11: 41 don't remember whether it was the business name or
21 11: 11: 43 whether it was her personally. I think it was maybe the
22 11: 11: 46 business name.
23 11: 11: 46 Q. And what's that business name?
24 11: 11: 48 A. Angie's Bail Bonds, I believe, yeah.
25 11: 11: 58 Q. Anyone else?
Page 72
1 11: 12: 00 A. I know Sheila Ensley was a big player in that.
2 11: 12: 04 Q. Were there search warrants prepared for Sheila?
3 11: 12: 11 A. No. That was supposed to be the next step. That
4 11: 12: 15 was supposed to be the next step.
5 11: 12: 16 Q. Anyone else?
6 11: 12: 17 A. Last name Cavanaugh. I don't recall the first
7 11: 12: 25 name: Angie Cavanaugh, maybe. We had -- we had a list
8 11: 12: 32 of people who had demonstratively submitted falsified
9 11: 12: 38 affidavits to the courts and we could prove that with
10 11: 12: 42 records that had been acquired from behavioral
11 11: 12: 44 interventions. So that's -- that's how we came up with
12 11: 12: 50 the list of who to -- who to start with arrests on.
13 11: 12: 54 Q. So right now, we've got Angie Luke, Angie's Bail
14 11: 13: 00 Bonds --
15 11: 13: 01 A. Anyway, the point --
16 11: 13: 02 Q. Let me finish my question.
17 11: 13: 03 A. I'm sorry.
18 11: 13: 04 Q. All City Bail, Sheila Lee [sic], and Angie
19 11: 13: 09 Cavanaugh; is there anyone else who you were prepared to
20 11: 13: 12 issue search warrants for?
21 11: 13: 16 A. Off the top, I don't recall.
22 11: 13: 18 Q. Did you make application to any court for
23 11: 13: 21 issuance of a search warrant?
24 11: 13: 23 A. We did not. I did not, no.
25 11: 13: 25 Q. Did you take the case to the prosecuting attorney
Page 73
1 11: 13: 28 and recommend issuance of search warrants?
2 11: 13: 31 A. That was the next step.
3 11: 13: 32 Q. You didn't do that, though. You didn't get to
4 11: 13: 35 that phase?
5 11: 13: 36 A. There had been communication with the prosecuting
6 11: 13: 39 attorney up to that point.
7 11: 13: 40 Q. Who in the prosecuting attorney's office?
8 11: 13: 42 A. I spoke to David McEachran myself.
9 11: 13: 42 THE REPORTER: " I spoke t o" . . . ?
10 11: 13: 50 THE WI TNESS: Davi d McEachr an.
11 11: 13: 50 Q. What did you tell him?
12 11: 13: 53 A. Just the -- the outline of what it was that we
13 11: 14: 00 were working on and what the reason was for and
14 11: 14: 04 answering questions because he had, I recall a lot of
15 11: 14: 07 questions about that.
16 11: 14: 08 Q. What did he tell you he was going to do?
17 11: 14: 11 A. I don't remember.
18 11: 14: 13 Q. Were all of these people that you've identified
19 11: 14: 19 or companies located in Whatcom County?
20 11: 14: 22 A. They were.
21 11: 14: 23 Q. What was the nature of the falsity of the
22 11: 14: 30 affidavits that you're referring to?
23 11: 14: 33 A. What was happening was inside circle people, for
24 11: 14: 41 lack of a better description, were being granted a means
25 11: 14: 47 to avoid accountability for electronic home monitoring.
Page 74
1 11: 14: 53 Q. And who were the people who were giving this
2 11: 14: 58 dispensation to those folks?
3 11: 15: 00 A. That seemed to be the crux of the investigation.
4 11: 15: 03 It seemed to focus on, at least from the local county
5 11: 15: 08 perspective, it seemed to focus on maybe one or two bail
6 11: 15: 13 bond outfits.
7 11: 15: 13 Q. Had any Whatcom County officials participated in
8 11: 15: 21 false affidavits or giving any dispensations to people
9 11: 15: 26 who were supposed to be on electronic home monitoring?
10 11: 15: 30 A. Not that I'm aware of.
11 11: 15: 32 Q. Didn't the FBI officer, Jim Powers, tell you that
12 11: 15: 49 he thought there was not a case for prosecution?
13 11: 15: 52 A. No, he absolutely did not tell me that. He said
14 11: 15: 55 just the opposite.
15 11: 15: 58 Q. Why then didn't he obtain search warrants
16 11: 16: 02 himself?
17 11: 16: 03 A. You would have to ask him that. I don't know.
18 11: 16: 05 Q. As a deputy sheriff, did you have a duty to
19 11: 16: 16 report crimes that you had evidence of?
20 11: 16: 18 A. I did. Yes.
21 11: 16: 21 Q. So that's a "yes"?
22 11: 16: 22 A. That's a yes.
23 11: 16: 23 Q. Do you have any quarrel with the principle that
24 11: 16: 28 honesty and credibility are important characteristics
25 11: 16: 31 for a deputy sheriff to have?
Page 75
1 11: 16: 32 A. I don't and I live by it.
2 11: 16: 34 Q. And do you agree that the deputy sheriff has to
3 11: 16: 38 be regarded as honest and credible by a variety of
4 11: 16: 43 people, coworkers, supervisors, prosecutors, judges?
5 11: 16: 49 A. Yes, but not in a politically correct sense.
6 11: 16: 53 Q. Do you agree that a deputy sheriff has to be
7 11: 16: 57 regarded by the public as fair and impartial?
8 11: 17: 03 A. I agree with that.
9 11: 17: 04 Q. Do you agree that if a deputy sheriff is caught
10 11: 17: 10 lying about duty-related matters that this would have a
11 11: 17: 14 negative effect on his career?
12 11: 17: 16 A. I agree.
13 11: 17: 17 Q. And is that appropriate?
14 11: 17: 18 A. Is it appropriate for a deputy sheriff caught
15 11: 17: 22 lying?
16 11: 17: 22 Q. Yes.
17 11: 17: 23 A. To suffer negative effects?
18 11: 17: 25 Q. To suffer negative consequences?
19 11: 17: 27 A. Absolutely I agree with that.
20 11: 17: 29 Q. Do you agree that deputy sheriffs must not
21 11: 17: 31 discriminate against people on the basis of their race,
22 11: 17: 34 religion, nationality, characteristics like that?
23 11: 17: 38 A. In a -- in an on-duty application of law or
24 11: 17: 44 policy, yes, I absolutely do agree with that. I don't
25 11: 17: 48 think that means a person should dump their opinions,
Page 76
1 11: 17: 51 but on-duty is probably not the place for that.
2 11: 17: 54 Q. Well, if a deputy sheriff publicly expresses
3 11: 17: 57 opinions suggesting he has a bias against certain people
4 11: 18: 01 based on their race, religion, nationality and other
5 11: 18: 04 characteristics of that sort, would that be legitimate
6 11: 18: 08 for the deputy's employer to be concerned about?
7 11: 18: 13 A. If it involves violence, if it involves harm, if
8 11: 18: 21 it involves public safety, yes, I do think so.
9 11: 18: 26 Q. If it involves insults, derogatory remarks about
10 11: 18: 32 a person because of his or her race, religion,
11 11: 18: 36 nationality, is that legitimate to be concerned about?
13 11: 18: 43 vague. I s t hat l egi t i mat e f or who t o be concer ned
14 11: 18: 45 about ?
15 11: 18: 46 Q. For the supervisors of that deputy sheriff, the
16 11: 18: 48 employer?
17 11: 18: 50 A. If that is in fact the case and not a
18 11: 18: 54 misperception, I would agree with that.
19 11: 18: 57 Q. Do you think that the need for a deputy sheriff
20 11: 19: 01 to maintain his credibility places any limits on what
21 11: 19: 08 that deputy ought to be saying or publishing publicly?
22 11: 19: 13 A. I want to make sure I understand what you're
23 11: 19: 21 asking me. If...
24 11: 19: 25 MS. BESCHEN: Do you want t o have hi mr epeat
25 11: 19: 27 t he quest i on?
Page 77
1 11: 19: 28 THE WI TNESS: Yes, pl ease.
2 11: 19: 28 Q. I'll read it.
3 11: 19: 30 Do you think that the need for a deputy sheriff
4 11: 19: 32 to maintain his credibility places any limits on what
5 11: 19: 38 that deputy ought to be saying or publishing publicly?
6 11: 19: 45 A. If you mean the true definition of credibility
7 11: 19: 49 and not some distorted politically correct version, yes,
8 11: 19: 53 I would agree with that.
9 11: 19: 55 Q. Well, credibility and honesty are synonymous,
10 11: 19: 59 aren't they?
11 11: 20: 02 A. I think they're closely related.
12 11: 20: 05 Q. And credibility also relates to fairness, doesn't
13 11: 20: 10 it?
14 11: 20: 12 A. I think it relates to a lot of things.
15 11: 20: 14 Q. Well, fairness is one of them?
16 11: 20: 16 A. I would agree with that.
17 11: 20: 22 Q. Okay.
18 11: 20: 22 Should a deputy sheriff deliver law enforcement
19 11: 20: 26 services differently to a Christian versus a Muslim?
20 11: 20: 30 A. No, should not.
21 11: 20: 33 Q. Do you understand that citizens would
22 11: 20: 36 legitimately be concerned about the fairness of a deputy
23 11: 20: 40 sheriff who expresses negative opinions about people of
24 11: 20: 43 a particular religion?
25 11: 20: 45 A. I can see how it can be twisted that way.
Page 78
1 11: 20: 49 Q. When you published a picture of a burning Koran
2 11: 21: 03 and said you won't be apologizing either to the
3 11: 21: 09 inscription on that Koran that was negative in an
4 11: 21: 17 extreme way about Muslims, do you think that was the
5 11: 21: 20 kind of thing that ought to cause people to question
6 11: 21: 25 your fairness?
7 11: 21: 27 A. No, I don't.
8 11: 21: 28 Q. Why not?
9 11: 21: 29 A. Why should it?
10 11: 21: 33 MS. BESCHEN: I obj ect as t o vague. Who - -
11 11: 21: 35 Q. That's -- I would like you to answer the
12 11: 21: 38 question. I'm not here to answer questions.
13 11: 21: 42 Tell me what you think.
14 11: 21: 43 A. I think the point is a -- it's a political point
15 11: 21: 47 that is a valid point. I would even go so far as to say
16 11: 22: 05 it's not just valid. Probably one of the more important
17 11: 22: 09 things to be considered at this particular point in our
18 11: 22: 12 history.
19 11: 22: 16 Q. And what do you mean it ought to be considered?
20 11: 22: 26 A. I think it's a simple fact that it's a very
21 11: 22: 31 one-sided discussion and it's a very politically --
22 11: 22: 38 political correctness driven agenda when Christians are
23 11: 22: 43 insulted they don't go out and saw people's heads off.
24 11: 22: 49 Q. But all Muslims do, is that what you're saying?
25 11: 22: 54 A. I don't think that's what that mean said.
Page 79
1 11: 22: 57 Q. So --
2 11: 23: 01 A. It was a mean that I forwarded.
3 11: 23: 01 Q. I'm sorry?
4 11: 23: 06 A. It was a mean. A mean, a Facebook picture, like
5 11: 23: 08 somebody else shares it and you click share and it
6 11: 23: 11 shares with other people.
7 11: 23: 11 Q. Okay.
8 11: 23: 12 A. So I didn't originate it. I just happened to
9 11: 23: 15 find it relevant.
10 11: 23: 18 Q. You agree with the inscription on this
11 11: 23: 22 photograph, "I pledge resistance to the insane religion
12 11: 23: 26 of Islam, to the lies upon which it stands and its
13 11: 23: 32 endless war of Allah's hate with intolerance and tyranny
14 11: 23: 37 for all"?
15 11: 23: 38 Do you --
16 11: 23: 38 A. I disagree fundamentally with people that believe
17 11: 23: 42 I should be killed because of what I believe.
18 11: 23: 46 MS. BESCHEN: Sl ow down and make sur e he
19 11: 23: 48 f i ni shes hi s quest i on.
20 11: 23: 50 Q. Well, the comment, I guess we'd better mark this
21 11: 23: 53 as an exhibit here, so let me just do that.
23 11: 24: 12 Q. Showing you what's been marked as Exhibit 8.
24 11: 24: 19 Just a second, I need to look at this and make sure it's
25 11: 24: 22 not my copy.
Page 80
1 11: 24: 24 MS. BESCHEN: Thank you.
2 11: 24: 25 MR. KAMERRER: Thank you.
3 11: 24: 27 Q. Now, is this a multipage copy of materials that
4 11: 24: 35 you have posted on Facebook?
5 11: 24: 41 A. Appears to be, yeah.
6 11: 24: 42 MS. BESCHEN: Go ahead and t ake your t i me
7 11: 24: 45 and - - t o l ook t hr ough i t .
8 11: 24: 46 Q. What do you call this? Is it a blog or a
9 11: 24: 49 Facebook page or what's the name for this?
10 11: 24: 53 A. Facebook is social media.
11 11: 25: 01 Q. Okay.
12 11: 25: 02 And you regularly publish comments about a
13 11: 25: 10 variety of things, including your opinions about the
14 11: 25: 18 Muslim religion on Facebook; is that right?
15 11: 25: 21 A. Well, it's all my opinion.
16 11: 25: 27 Q. Is that a "yes"?
17 11: 25: 30 A. It -- maybe I'm hearing it wrong, but it sounds
18 11: 25: 37 like you're asking if all I ever post about are things
19 11: 25: 41 about the Muslim religion?
20 11: 25: 43 Q. No, that's not what I'm saying.
21 11: 25: 46 A. But you specifically --
22 11: 25: 49 Q. That's included in what you publish?
23 11: 25: 52 A. Yes.
24 11: 25: 57 Q. And so turning to Page 15 of that 20-page
25 11: 26: 12 exhibit, would you agree that things that are written
Page 81
1 11: 26: 18 immediately following your name are things that you
2 11: 26: 21 wrote?
3 11: 26: 24 A. If you're asking if I wrote that, yes, I did.
4 11: 26: 27 Q. So it says: Paul Murphy shared Louise Williams'
5 11: 26: 32 photo, and it says Saturday, and then the next words are
6 11: 26: 35 "I won't be apologizing either."
7 11: 26: 39 Are those your -- your words, the "I won't be
8 11: 26: 42 apologizing either"?
9 11: 26: 43 A. They are.
10 11: 26: 44 Q. And so you were referring to the photograph below
11 11: 26: 49 that of a burning Koran with the phrase of: I pledge
12 11: 26: 55 resistance to the insane religion of Islam to the lies
13 11: 26: 59 upon which it stands and it's endless war of Allah's
14 11: 27: 03 hate with intolerance and tyranny for all.
15 11: 27: 06 That's what you were endorsing with your "I won't
16 11: 27: 10 be apologizing either" comment; is that right?
17 11: 27: 13 A. I don't agree with your choice of words, no.
18 11: 27: 16 Q. How would you characterize your words --
19 11: 27: 16 A. I wouldn't call it --
20 11: 27: 21 Q. -- referring to that?
21 11: 27: 21 A. I don't think it's an endorsement. I think it's
22 11: 27: 26 me saying I don't have anything to apologize for.
23 11: 27: 33 Q. Do you think that a person of the Muslim faith
24 11: 27: 37 seeing that would think that Deputy Sheriff Paul Murphy
25 11: 27: 43 is a fair and impartial person?
Page 82
1 11: 27: 45 MS. BESCHEN: Obj ect i on; cal l s f or
2 11: 27: 49 specul at i on.
3 11: 27: 49 A. I think -- it's the -- the asking of the
4 11: 28: 06 questions. Can I ask you to rephrase that, please?
5 11: 28: 10 Q. Do you think a person of the Muslim faith seeing
6 11: 28: 19 that would think that Deputy Sheriff Paul Murphy is a
7 11: 28: 23 fair and impartial person?
8 11: 28: 25 MS. BESCHEN: Same obj ect i on.
9 11: 28: 30 A. Well, it's speculation, but I think they can --
10 11: 28: 37 they're allowed to think whatever they want, but anybody
11 11: 28: 40 that knows me knows that I'm a very fair and very
12 11: 28: 43 unbiased and partial person.
13 11: 28: 45 Q. Are you a believer in some religious faith?
14 11: 28: 48 A. Absolutely I am.
15 11: 28: 49 Q. And what is that?
16 11: 28: 50 A. I am a Christian.
17 11: 28: 51 Q. Would you be offended by someone who made a
18 11: 28: 54 display of a burning Bible?
19 11: 28: 55 A. I see it every day. I see something that's done
20 11: 28: 59 to offend Christians every single day.
21 11: 29: 01 Q. And it does offend you, doesn't it?
22 11: 29: 03 A. Oh, well, I don't like it, but...
23 11: 29: 03 Q. So that's -- that's an offense?
24 11: 29: 06 A. They're allowed to say that. They're allowed to
25 11: 29: 09 do that.
Page 83
1 11: 29: 10 Q. Wouldn't a Muslim person in Whatcom County think
2 11: 29: 14 the same of you for what's published on Page 15 of
3 11: 29: 21 Exhibit 8?
4 11: 29: 23 A. I would hope that they would give me the same
5 11: 29: 26 latitude that I give them.
6 11: 29: 27 Q. Which looks like it's about none.
7 11: 29: 30 A. I think they give me none.
8 11: 29: 33 Q. And you intend to do the same as to Muslim
9 11: 29: 36 people; is that right?
10 11: 29: 37 A. No, that's not true. If a Muslim wanted to burn
11 11: 29: 42 a Bible in front of me, then no, I wouldn't like it, but
12 11: 29: 45 that's their right to free speech.
13 11: 29: 47 Q. You have written or contributed to a number of
14 11: 29: 51 web-based publications; is that correct?
15 11: 29: 54 A. I have.
16 11: 29: 55 Q. And they include something called Whatcom County
17 11: 30: 00 Uncovered?
18 11: 30: 00 A. Yes.
19 11: 30: 01 Q. Is that something you created?
20 11: 30: 04 A. Yes.
21 11: 30: 05 Q. Another one called WCSD Ethics, did you create
22 11: 30: 13 that?
23 11: 30: 13 A. WCSD Ethics? I'm not sure what that means.
24 11: 30: 21 Q. Well, I assume it means Whatcom County Sheriff's
25 11: 30: 25 Department Ethics?
Page 84
1 11: 30: 26 A. Like a website or...?
2 11: 30: 28 Q. Yeah, or a Facebook page or whatever you call
3 11: 30: 32 these things?
4 11: 30: 38 MS. BESCHEN: Onl y answer what ' s i n your
5 11: 30: 40 knowl edge.
6 11: 30: 40 THE REPORTER: Can you speak up?
7 11: 30: 38 MS. BESCHEN: Onl y answer what ' s i n your
8 11: 30: 40 knowl edge.
9 11: 30: 45 Sor r y.
10 11: 30: 45 A. I mean, I probably used the word, but I don't
11 11: 30: 48 recall a Facebook page entitled that.
12 11: 30: 51 Q. Did you create the web-based publication called
13 11: 31: 00 "Boot Bill Elfo"?
14 11: 31: 01 A. I did.
15 11: 31: 03 Q. And how about "Bill Elfo Scribe"?
16 11: 31: 07 A. I did.
17 11: 31: 08 Q. And how about the "Campaign to Unelect Bill
18 11: 31: 13 Elfo"?
19 11: 31: 13 A. It's all the same page, but those were name
20 11: 31: 16 changes along the way.
21 11: 31: 18 Q. Okay.
22 11: 31: 20 Do you also publish materials on Ancestry.com?
23 11: 31: 25 A. Occasionally, yes.
24 11: 31: 27 Q. And something called Scribd, spelled S-C-R-I-B-D?
25 11: 31: 33 A. A lot, yes.
Page 85
1 11: 31: 34 Q. How do you use Scribd?
2 11: 31: 37 A. I use it like a library of interesting things,
3 11: 31: 43 pertinent things that I want to keep or share.
4 11: 31: 45 Q. Do you have a membership of some sort to that?
5 11: 31: 50 A. No.
6 11: 31: 52 Q. It's a storage site?
7 11: 31: 53 A. It's a -- it's a social media thing with
8 11: 32: 01 followers and people I like or don't like, and people
9 11: 32: 05 can pick and choose as they see fit.
10 11: 32: 08 Q. And you've published a number of accusatory and
11 11: 32: 15 negative things about Sheriff Elfo on Scribd; is that
12 11: 32: 20 right?
13 11: 32: 20 A. I have never -- well -- that's your
14 11: 32: 24 characterization. I have publish nothing but the truth.
17 11: 32: 40 Q. Over in the right-hand column there is an entry,
18 11: 32: 51 "Paul Murphy shared The People's Cube's photo."
19 11: 32: 57 Do you see that?
20 11: 32: 59 A. I do.
21 11: 33: 00 Q. And so The People's Cube must be some other site
22 11: 33: 06 on the internet?
23 11: 33: 07 A. The People's Cube is a -- it's actually one I
24 11: 33: 12 think a lot of because it's very funny, it's a satirical
25 11: 33: 16 look at communism.
Page 86
1 11: 33: 18 Q. And you have President and Mrs. Obama depicted
2 11: 33: 26 there; is that right?
3 11: 33: 27 A. I don't, but...
4 11: 33: 28 Q. You published it on your page?
5 11: 33: 30 A. I evidently clicked the share button.
6 11: 33: 35 Q. And you -- it's added to your Facebook page so
7 11: 33: 39 anyone who has access to that page which is unlimited?
8 11: 33: 42 A. I'm not disputing that anything on these pages is
9 11: 33: 45 anything but mine.
10 11: 33: 46 Q. Okay.
11 11: 33: 46 And so what -- what is your point of copying a
12 11: 33: 53 photograph of Mrs. Obama that refers to her as the first
13 11: 33: 58 lad of the US?
14 11: 34: 00 A. I really don't even know how that came about. I
15 11: 34: 07 don't actually remember seeing this, so I right off the
16 11: 34: 12 top I don't know how it got there.
17 11: 34: 13 Q. You're suggesting that Mrs. Obama has boyish
18 11: 34: 18 figure, to put it as politely as possible?
19 11: 34: 22 A. I'm not suggesting anything. I'm suggesting I
20 11: 34: 25 found the name funny.
21 11: 34: 26 Q. You thought it was funny?
22 11: 34: 27 A. I thought it was funny.
23 11: 34: 29 Q. And then the picture of Mr. Obama, President
24 11: 34: 31 Obama is -- has the caption "The second lady of the" --
25 11: 34: 36 and I assume it says US after that. It's cut off on
Page 87
1 11: 34: 41 this page. Is that your understanding?
2 11: 34: 45 A. Well, I don't know what's supposed to be there.
3 11: 34: 49 Q. You've heard the term the First Lady, haven't
4 11: 34: 55 you?
5 11: 34: 55 A. I have.
6 11: 34: 57 Q. And so your depiction of President Obama is
7 11: 35: 00 suggesting, what, that he's female in character?
8 11: 35: 04 A. It's The People Cube's depiction.
9 11: 35: 06 Q. What's your endorsement intended to say?
10 11: 35: 10 A. The -- it doesn't say endorsement, it says
11 11: 35: 10 "share."
12 11: 35: 15 Q. Well, what was your sharing intended to convey?
13 11: 35: 18 A. I thought it was funny.
14 11: 35: 19 Q. Okay.
15 11: 35: 20 So suggesting that the president is ladylike is
16 11: 35: 24 in your opinion funny?
17 11: 35: 25 A. You're looking at the same picture I'm seeing,
18 11: 35: 29 right?
19 11: 35: 31 Q. Page 15 -- excuse me, Page 6 of Exhibit 8.
20 11: 35: 36 A. That's a very popular picture for a reason.
21 11: 35: 40 Q. Why?
22 11: 35: 40 A. Because it's a very feminine throw.
23 11: 35: 46 Q. And so you're essentially mocking the President
24 11: 35: 49 for being caught in a photograph that you think is a
25 11: 35: 55 feminine throw of a baseball?
Page 88
1 11: 35: 57 A. I think it's humorous. And --
2 11: 36: 08 MS. BESCHEN: You need t o. . .
3 11: 36: 11 THE WI TNESS: Sor r y.
4 11: 36: 26 Q. You're obviously quite opposed to President
5 11: 36: 30 Obama; is that correct?
6 11: 36: 32 A. I have a disagreement with the Marxist-Leninist
7 11: 36: 32 philosophy.
8 11: 36: 32 THE REPORTER: The Mar xi st . . . ?
9 11: 36: 32 THE WI TNESS: Leni ni st .
10 11: 36: 42 Q. And you think that President Obama is communist;
11 11: 36: 47 is that right?
12 11: 36: 47 A. He has said it himself.
13 11: 36: 50 Q. Do you also think that he is not a citizen of the
14 11: 37: 02 United States who's eligible to be president?
15 11: 37: 05 A. Am I missing something here?
16 11: 37: 12 Q. I'm sorry, you want me to repeat the question?
17 11: 37: 14 A. I'm trying to -- I think my lawsuit is against
18 11: 37: 17 Bill Elfo and Whatcom County.
19 11: 37: 22 Q. Go ahead and answer the question.
20 11: 37: 24 MS. BESCHEN: Can you r epeat t he quest i on?
22 11: 37: 30 Q. Do you think that President Obama is not a
23 11: 37: 33 citizen of the United States and eligible to be
24 11: 37: 36 president?
25 11: 37: 37 A. I think there is a significant degree of doubt as
Page 89
1 11: 37: 41 to what has been presented to this point, and the
2 11: 37: 46 question has not been answered at least not my
3 11: 37: 53 satisfaction.
4 11: 37: 54 Q. As of 2010 to 2012, how many functioning
5 11: 38: 33 computers did you personally own?
6 11: 38: 34 A. 2010 to 2012? 2010 to 2012. So I'm trying to
7 11: 38: 45 remember when my kids moved out. I think John was still
8 11: 38: 54 at home, so that's --
9 11: 39: 07 THE REPORTER: " So t hat ' s" . . . ?
10 11: 39: 07 THE WI TNESS: Me t hi nki ng i t t hr ough.
11 THE REPORTER: I know. I have t o wr i t e even
12 when you. . .
13 THE WI TNESS: Yeah. Sor r y.
14 MS. BESCHEN: Go ahead and t ake your t i me
15 and t hi nk - -
16 THE WI TNESS: Let me t hi nk i t t hr ough.
17 MS. BESCHEN: - - bef or e you answer t he
18 quest i on.
19 11: 39: 40 A. I can't be sure, three or four.
20 11: 39: 42 Q. Three or four. And that includes your son's
21 11: 39: 44 computer?
22 11: 39: 46 A. Yes.
23 11: 39: 47 Q. How many office-issued computers did you have
24 11: 39: 51 over that time, 2010 to 2012?
25 11: 39: 54 A. Office-issued, as in work-related?
Page 90
1 11: 40: 00 Q. Yes.
2 11: 40: 01 A. One.
3 11: 40: 02 Q. Were all of these computers laptops?
4 11: 40: 08 A. No.
5 11: 40: 09 Q. How many were laptops besides your office-issued
6 11: 40: 13 computer?
7 11: 40: 13 A. I don't think any of them were.
8 11: 40: 15 Q. So you had one office-issued laptop computer and
9 11: 40: 23 the rest were desktop computers?
10 11: 40: 25 A. Yes.
11 11: 40: 26 Q. Are desktop computer hard drives compatible with
12 11: 40: 30 laptop computers?
13 11: 40: 33 A. I'm just catching myself and realizing I didn't
14 11: 40: 36 -- I overlooked my own personal laptop that was in the
15 11: 40: 39 shop.
16 11: 40: 43 Q. Okay.
17 11: 40: 43 So your three or four computers is four or five?
18 11: 40: 47 A. Yeah, let's say four or five.
19 11: 40: 49 Q. One of which was a laptop?
20 11: 40: 51 A. Yes.
21 11: 40: 52 Q. Same question: Are laptop hard drives compatible
22 11: 40: 58 for installation in desktop computers?
23 11: 41: 02 A. They are not.
24 11: 41: 04 Q. And does the same apply the other direction,
25 11: 41: 07 desktop computers are not compatible for use in laptop
Page 91
1 11: 41: 11 computers?
2 11: 41: 12 A. In general yes, but they can be made to work.
3 11: 41: 15 Q. If they're put in a drive like that and used
4 11: 41: 20 externally; is that right?
5 11: 41: 21 A. Correct.
6 11: 41: 22 Q. Okay.
7 11: 41: 26 Did you personally own any electronic equipment
8 11: 41: 30 that could be used to duplicate or clone computer hard
9 11: 41: 36 drives?
10 11: 41: 37 A. It's nothing fancy just, yeah, software and a
11 11: 41: 41 desktop computer. Yes.
12 11: 41: 43 Q. Why didn't you trust the information technology
13 11: 41: 52 or IT department people?
14 11: 41: 54 MS. BESCHEN: Obj ect i on; assumes f act s not
15 11: 41: 56 i n evi dence.
16 11: 41: 59 A. I don't -- I don't know that it's -- I wouldn't
17 11: 42: 05 characterize it that way. And it probably comes from my
18 11: 42: 12 training. My training is that if you don't have a need
19 11: 42: 16 to know then you don't have access to it, period.
20 11: 42: 19 There's no pejorative, there's no -- there's no
21 11: 42: 22 insinuation as to trust or lack of trust. It's just you
22 11: 42: 26 don't have the need to know so you don't access it. So
23 11: 42: 31 I think that just follows through that if somebody
24 11: 42: 35 doesn't really have need for that information, they
25 11: 42: 37 shouldn't get it.
Page 92
1 11: 42: 41 Q. Turn to Exhibit 7, please and Page 15 of that
2 11: 42: 48 interview transcript.
3 11: 42: 57 A. Page 15?
4 11: 42: 58 Q. Yes.
6 11: 43: 06 Q. I'm going to go down to Line 665, I'm going to
7 11: 43: 12 start with your answer here, and I'll read it and then
8 11: 43: 17 I'll ask you a question.
9 11: 43: 18 Your answer begins, quote, I can, I can no
10 11: 43: 25 longer, all right, I don't see any -- any way to get
11 11: 43: 28 around this, so it's going to have to come up in
12 11: 43: 31 discussion. I have data files that IT is not gonna
13 11: 43: 37 access, no way, no how, they're not getting it, period.
15 11: 43: 48 A. Yes.
16 11: 43: 48 Q. And then Inspector Cooley asks, "And why is
17 11: 43: 54 that?"
18 11: 43: 54 And your answer is "Because they don't have
19 11: 43: 58 the -- they don't have the need to know, number one,
20 11: 44: 02 they don't have the authorization, number two."
21 11: 44: 07 Have I correctly read your answer?
22 11: 44: 09 A. Yes.
23 11: 44: 10 Q. So you say that that is not a lack of trust, it's
24 11: 44: 18 simply a lack of need to know and a lack of
25 11: 44: 25 authorization; is that correct?
Page 93
1 11: 44: 28 A. Yes.
2 11: 44: 29 Q. So you did not have distrust for the IT people?
3 11: 44: 33 A. OH, I did.
4 11: 44: 34 Q. Why was that?
5 11: 44: 36 A. Because of some things that had transpired before
6 11: 44: 39 that -- before this time.
7 11: 44: 41 Q. What was it that had transpired?
8 11: 44: 43 A. We went through a kind of a heated period where
9 11: 44: 47 there was some disputes about a pawn reporting system
10 11: 44: 52 and it got kind of heated at a couple points. I felt
11 11: 44: 59 like I was being called stupid and ignorant without
12 11: 45: 05 being actually called stupid and ignorant.
13 11: 45: 07 Q. So you were offended by that?
14 11: 45: 09 A. I was offended by their inference, yes. I mean,
15 11: 45: 15 if I called Josh Nylander on the phone and said, Hey,
16 11: 45: 18 Josh, the system is cracking up right now, and Josh
17 11: 45: 20 says, I'm looking at it right now and it looks fine,
18 11: 45: 24 he's telling me I don't know what I'm talking about.
19 11: 45: 26 Q. So it was a personal type of disagreement that
20 11: 45: 35 you had?
21 11: 45: 35 A. I think that's fair.
22 11: 45: 37 Q. Who were the people in IT that you did not trust?
23 11: 45: 40 A. Trust is your word, not mine. I had a
24 11: 45: 47 disagreement with -- really Josh Nylander is the only
25 11: 45: 52 one I can think of having a disagreement with. I think
Page 94
1 11: 45: 54 I got along with everybody else pretty good.
2 11: 45: 58 Q. Was Josh Nylander involved in the migration in
3 11: 46: 04 September 2010?
4 11: 46: 05 A. Good question. I don't know. I don't know.
5 11: 46: 10 Q. Did anyone associated with the IT department do
6 11: 46: 25 anything that you thought was dishonest or damaging to
7 11: 46: 32 you?
8 11: 46: 34 A. I do.
9 11: 46: 35 Q. And what was that?
10 11: 46: 36 A. Josh Nylander again. Josh -- I mean, I'll have
11 11: 46: 45 to -- I know emails were sent, but I'll have to
12 11: 46: 49 speculate a little bit as to the content, but it was
13 11: 46: 54 along the lines of Detective Murphy has reported that
14 11: 46: 58 there is a problem with pawnshop logins and I have
15 11: 47: 03 checked it and that's not the case.
16 11: 47: 06 So he reports to our administration that I'm
17 11: 47: 10 essentially lying about making up that there is a
18 11: 47: 12 problem with the pawn reporting system. So it got to a
19 11: 47: 18 point where I actually started taking screen shots of
20 11: 47: 21 the failures so that I could have a record of the
21 11: 47: 24 failure so that when he would turn around and tell our
22 11: 47: 27 administration that I was making it up, I would have the
23 11: 47: 30 proof that, see, it was failing.
24 11: 47: 34 Q. So you took a statement that something was not
25 11: 47: 48 failing to be a claim that you were dishonest because
Page 95
1 11: 47: 56 you had said it was failing?
2 11: 47: 59 A. He was calling me a liar in so many words.
3 11: 48: 02 Q. Okay.
4 11: 48: 02 By saying it's not -- so by saying it was not
5 11: 48: 21 failing, that was a claim that you were dishonest; is
6 11: 48: 25 that right?
7 11: 48: 25 A. Essentially he was telling my bosses that I was
8 11: 48: 30 making things up and lying.
9 11: 48: 41 Q. That occurred when you were the patrol
10 11: 48: 45 investigator?
11 11: 48: 45 A. Yes.
12 11: 48: 46 Q. And that was before you got the Toughbook
13 11: 48: 49 computer?
14 11: 48: 50 A. Yeah, long before.
15 11: 48: 54 Q. Okay.
16 11: 48: 54 And it was certainly then before the September
17 11: 48: 59 2010 migration event?
18 11: 49: 01 A. Yes.
19 11: 49: 02 Q. Was that feeling about Josh Nylander or the
20 11: 49: 13 entire IT department the reason why you didn't want to
21 11: 49: 18 turn in your computer for the migration in September
22 11: 49: 22 2010?
23 11: 49: 24 A. Why I didn't want to turn it in?
25 11: 49: 29 i n evi dence.
Page 96
1 11: 49: 31 Q. Go ahead.
2 11: 49: 36 A. Well, you're -- you're inferring that I didn't
3 11: 49: 40 want to turn it in. So I -- if I sidestep that, can I
4 11: 49: 44 answer your question?
5 11: 49: 45 Q. Well, did you disagree with turning in your
6 11: 49: 51 laptop computer for the 2010 migration?
7 11: 49: 54 A. I had concerns.
8 11: 49: 56 Q. Okay.
9 11: 49: 56 What were those concerns?
10 11: 49: 58 A. Well, I really didn't know the full extent of why
11 11: 50: 03 things were happening the way they were happened with
12 11: 50: 06 Josh Nylander. I do know he was an application team
13 11: 50: 10 supervisor, so he's sort of in a management, middle
14 11: 50: 17 management position there, so I really don't know the
15 11: 50: 20 extent of how far that would go. I was just being
16 11: 50: 24 protective, that's all.
17 11: 50: 26 Q. Did you know in advance of the migration event
18 11: 50: 28 that it was going to occur? In other words, it wasn't a
19 11: 50: 33 surprise?
20 11: 50: 33 A. No, it was no surprise.
21 11: 50: 35 Q. Did you know that as a result of the migration
22 11: 50: 41 you would no longer be able to install programs that you
23 11: 50: 46 wanted to install on your computer?
24 11: 50: 49 A. Yes.
25 11: 50: 50 Q. And that any installation of nonstandard programs
Page 97
1 11: 50: 55 would have to be done to your computer by the internet
2 11: 51: 01 per the information technology department?
3 11: 51: 04 A. Yes.
4 11: 51: 05 Q. And did you also know that as a result of the
5 11: 51: 09 migration, the IT department would have the ability to
6 11: 51: 14 access your computer remotely to either make corrections
7 11: 51: 18 or add things?
8 11: 51: 19 A. Yes.
9 11: 51: 20 Q. And you didn't like the notion that they could
10 11: 51: 23 access your computer and see what was on it?
11 11: 51: 28 A. I didn't like the idea that a prying eye with an
12 11: 51: 35 IP point could look at investigative files whenever they
13 11: 51: 39 wanted.
14 11: 51: 40 Q. And a solution to that was to install a blank
15 11: 51: 48 hard drive in your Toughbook computer and remove the
16 11: 51: 55 original hard drive that contained all your private data
17 11: 52: 00 before the migration; is that right?
18 11: 52: 03 A. I suppose it could be seen that way.
19 11: 52: 09 Q. Well, if you put a blank hard drive in the
20 11: 52: 12 Toughbook computer, it doesn't have your private data on
21 11: 52: 16 it, does it?
22 11: 52: 17 A. If it's blank, it's blank.
23 11: 52: 19 Q. So your answer is yes?
24 11: 52: 21 A. If that's the question, yes.
25 11: 52: 23 Q. And you wanted to protect your private data from
Page 98
1 11: 52: 28 the IT people, didn't you?
2 11: 52: 30 A. Sure.
3 11: 52: 30 Q. Isn't that why you pulled the original hard drive
4 11: 52: 35 out of that computer and put a different one into it?
5 11: 52: 39 MS. BESCHEN: Obj ect i on as t o vague.
6 11: 52: 40 A. I don't think that's the case, no.
7 11: 52: 44 Q. Now, you told Cooley in the March 1, 2012
8 11: 52: 54 interview several times that you replaced the hard drive
9 11: 52: 58 in that computer. First you said it was because you
10 11: 53: 02 wanted to improve the performance and later it was
11 11: 53: 05 because you didn't want IT to have access to your
12 11: 53: 09 private files.
13 11: 53: 10 Do you recall that?
14 11: 53: 11 A. I do.
15 11: 53: 12 Q. Was that true?
16 11: 53: 14 A. Well, you're presuming that it's mutually
17 11: 53: 17 exclusive. It's not. They could both be true.
18 11: 53: 22 Q. Okay.
19 11: 53: 23 That's fine.
20 11: 53: 23 But you told him that you replaced the hard drive
21 11: 53: 27 for one or both of those reasons?
22 11: 53: 31 A. I told him that my best recollection was that I
23 11: 53: 35 upgraded hard drives at least two times up to that point
24 11: 53: 39 because I needed more drive space.
25 11: 53: 43 Q. So your intention was to upgrade the hard drive
Page 99
1 11: 53: 50 and protect your private data?
2 11: 53: 52 A. My intention was to upgrade my hard drive.
3 11: 53: 56 Q. In the process you protected your private data?
4 11: 54: 00 A. In the process I would protect the data.
5 11: 54: 02 Q. Now, a Toughbook laptop is different than most
6 11: 54: 08 other laptops, isn't it?
7 11: 54: 10 A. Yes.
8 11: 54: 12 Q. It has a lot of cushioning and heavy duty
9 11: 54: 17 components so that it can't easily be damaged; is that
10 11: 54: 21 right?
11 11: 54: 21 A. Yes.
12 11: 54: 25 Q. One of the things that is heavily protected is
13 11: 54: 28 the hard drive itself, isn't it?
14 11: 54: 29 A. It's ruggedized, yes.
15 11: 54: 31 Q. And it resides in the computer in a metal box,
16 11: 54: 36 doesn't it?
17 11: 54: 37 A. It does.
18 11: 54: 37 Q. And it's a metal box that's about an inch deep
19 11: 54: 41 and probably four or five inches long; is that right?
20 11: 54: 45 A. Sounds about right.
21 11: 54: 46 Q. Okay.
22 11: 54: 46 And in order to remove the hard drive from that
23 11: 54: 53 computer and put a new one into it, you have to pull out
24 11: 54: 58 that metal box, don't you?
25 11: 55: 00 A. Yes.
Page 100
1 11: 55: 02 Q. And then you have to disassemble that metal box
2 11: 55: 07 by unscrewing it and pulling apart the tabs and opening
3 11: 55: 13 the box; is that right?
4 11: 55: 14 A. Yes, mm-hm.
5 11: 55: 15 Q. Then once you open it, you have to peel off a
6 11: 55: 19 tape that holds the hard drive in, peel off foam
7 11: 55: 24 cushions, and then disconnect the hard drive, the actual
8 11: 55: 30 device like we see here --
9 11: 55: 32 A. Yes.
10 11: 55: 33 Q. -- from the cable, and then reverse the process
11 11: 55: 39 with the new hard drive; is that right?
12 11: 55: 43 A. Yes.
13 11: 55: 43 Q. You have the capability of doing that based on
14 11: 55: 49 your training and experience?
15 11: 55: 50 A. I do.
16 11: 55: 51 Q. Did you buy a new metal case for a replacement
17 11: 56: 03 hard drive for the Toughbook computer?
18 11: 56: 05 A. I don't believe I did.
19 11: 56: 07 Q. Did you use the same case and just put a new hard
20 11: 56: 11 drive into that case?
21 11: 56: 13 A. I don't remember whether I sent the hard drive
22 11: 56: 19 back separate or whether I sent it back installed. I
23 11: 56: 24 thought I had put a hard drive in there but I could be
24 11: 56: 27 thinking about the middle -- the middle laptop from
25 11: 56: 30 detectives. I just don't remember.
Page 101
1 11: 56: 32 Q. But in order to send the computer in for the
2 11: 56: 37 migration with the drive in it, you would have had to
3 11: 56: 46 reverse the process I just described and connect a new
4 11: 56: 51 hard drive into that metal box, replace the foam,
5 11: 56: 57 replace the screws, put it back in the Toughbook
6 11: 57: 01 computer box; is that right?
7 11: 57: 03 A. What are you asking me?
8 11: 57: 08 Q. In order to return the Toughbook computer with a
9 11: 57: 15 hard drive in it, you would have to do what I just
10 11: 57: 18 described?
11 11: 57: 19 A. To have a hard drive in it, yes, I would agree
12 11: 57: 23 with that.
13 11: 57: 24 Q. Did it have a hard drive in it when you returned
14 11: 57: 27 it for the migration?
15 11: 57: 28 A. I don't remember. I think so, but that's
16 11: 57: 33 speculation.
17 11: 57: 34 Q. When you took the original hard drive out, did
18 11: 57: 39 you know what the size of the hard drive was?
19 11: 57: 44 A. Again, I don't remember.
20 11: 57: 46 Q. Did you know from any data sheets or invoice-type
21 11: 57: 51 documents regarding relating to the purchase of those
22 11: 57: 54 Toughbook computers what size hard drive came in them?
23 11: 58: 00 A. At the time?
24 11: 58: 01 Q. Yeah.
25 11: 58: 02 A. No.
Page 102
1 11: 58: 03 Q. You've learned that since, haven't you?
2 11: 58: 05 A. Yes.
3 11: 58: 05 Q. And you know that all of those Toughbook
4 11: 58: 08 computers were ordered and invoiced with 80 gigabyte
5 11: 58: 12 hard drives; is that right?
6 11: 58: 14 A. I know that's what some of the information says.
7 11: 58: 17 I don't know that I would agree with it.
8 11: 58: 20 Q. Well, did you ever determine the size of the
9 11: 58: 23 original hard drive that was in your Toughbook computer?
10 11: 58: 28 A. I don't think so.
11 11: 58: 30 Q. When you got from Roff?
12 11: 58: 33 A. I probably did look at it, but I just don't
13 11: 58: 33 remember.
14 11: 58: 36 Q. So in upgrading it, you would want to put in a
15 11: 58: 38 hard drive that was greater capacity than 80 gigabytes,
16 11: 58: 42 right?
17 11: 58: 42 A. If you're presuming that it came with an 80, I
18 11: 58: 46 agree with that.
19 11: 59: 17 Q. In Exhibit 3 I want to direct your attention to
20 11: 59: 20 Page 22.
21 11: 59: 33 MS. BESCHEN: What exhi bi t di d you say?
22 11: 59: 34 MR. KAMERRER: Exhi bi t 3, i t ' s t he - - excuse
23 11: 59: 38 me. I ' msor r y, i t ' s Exhi bi t 7. I t ' s t he Mar ch 1, 2012
24 11: 59: 43 t r anscr i pt . Act ual l y, f l i p back t o Page 21. I need t o
25 11: 59: 53 st ar t t her e.
Page 103
1 11: 59: 56 Q. Have you got 21?
2 11: 59: 57 A. I do.
3 11: 59: 58 Q. Down near the bottom, Line 940, I'm going to read
4 12: 00: 04 this and then I'll ask you a question.
5 12: 00: 06 Question: Okay. I'm going to ask you again,
6 12: 00: 09 where was -- where is that information now?
7 12: 00: 14 Answer: The Intel information or what?
8 12: 00: 18 Then next page, Line 944.
9 12: 00: 24 Question: All of it.
10 12: 00: 26 Answer: My -- my personal information?
11 12: 00: 33 Question: Well, I'm talking about your
12 12: 00: 35 investigations and all the files you don't want the
13 12: 00: 40 County to see.
14 12: 00: 41 Answer: It's safely stored.
16 12: 00: 47 A. Appears to be.
17 12: 00: 48 Q. Okay.
18 12: 00: 48 Where was that personal information safely
19 12: 00: 56 stored?
20 12: 00: 56 A. What personal information?
21 12: 00: 58 Q. The personal information you were referring to at
22 12: 01: 02 this point in the interview?
23 12: 01: 04 A. I think that's the point. He wouldn't define it.
24 12: 01: 06 And I wasn't going to give it to him.
25 12: 01: 08 Q. Where was it stored?
Page 104
1 12: 01: 09 A. Where was what stored?
2 12: 01: 11 Q. The personal information?
3 12: 01: 12 A. I think we're doing the same thing again.
4 12: 01: 21 Q. How so? Are you refusing to answer my question?
5 12: 01: 24 A. Not at all. I want you to define what you're
6 12: 01: 28 asking for.
7 12: 01: 28 Q. Well, you said the words "my personal
8 12: 01: 31 information." I'm just asking you to tell me where your
9 12: 01: 34 personal information that you were referring to was
10 12: 01: 37 safely stored.
11 12: 01: 38 A. All right. So my -- my son's second grade
12 12: 01: 42 birthday party picture, do you want to know where that's
13 12: 01: 45 at?
14 12: 01: 45 Q. I want to know where the personal information
15 12: 01: 48 that you were referring to in the interview with Cooley
16 12: 01: 52 was safely stored as you said it?
17 12: 01: 54 A. Well, I couldn't get him to define what it was he
18 12: 02: 00 wanted.
19 12: 02: 00 Q. That's not my question.
20 12: 02: 02 A. Again, you're not defining what you're asking
21 12: 02: 06 for. Do you want case reports?
22 12: 02: 07 Q. Your personal information.
23 12: 02: 08 A. Well, it's my personal information.
24 12: 02: 10 Q. Where was it stored?
25 12: 02: 11 A. What personal information?
Page 105
1 12: 02: 13 Q. The personal information you were referring to in
2 12: 02: 16 this interview.
3 12: 02: 20 A. I don't think I'm wrong to ask for a definition
4 12: 02: 24 of what it is that you want.
5 12: 02: 26 Q. Anything that you consider to be your personal
6 12: 02: 30 information that was safely stored.
7 12: 02: 34 A. I don't know if I'm overthinking this or what,
8 12: 02: 39 but...
9 12: 02: 39 MS. BESCHEN: I ' mgoi ng t o obj ect . Your
10 12: 02: 41 quest i on seems t o be assumi ng t hat t her e' s one l ocat i on
11 12: 02: 44 f or - - t hat t her e' s one par t i cul ar - -
12 12: 02: 44 MR. KAMERRER: Oh, i t coul d be - - coul d be
13 12: 02: 44 mor e t han one.
14 12: 02: 44 THE REPORTER: Hol d on j ust one second.
15 12: 02: 44 " One par t i cul ar " . . . ?
16 12: 02: 48 MS. BESCHEN: - - amount of per sonal
17 12: 02: 50 i nf or mat i on t hat ' s st or ed i n one l ocat i on. I t hi nk
18 12: 02: 52 Mr . Mur phy maybe i s havi ng t r oubl e answer i ng t hat
19 12: 02: 55 quest i on because t hat ' s not t he case.
20 12: 02: 58 But i f you go ahead and answer as you can.
21 12: 03: 01 Q. If it's more than one place, that's fine. I want
22 12: 03: 05 to know where it was stored.
23 12: 03: 06 A. Well, information is information.
24 12: 03: 09 Q. I just want to say something to you, Mr. Murphy.
25 12: 03: 12 You're being video recorded.
Page 106
1 12: 03: 15 A. I understand that.
2 12: 03: 16 Q. And your evasiveness is going to be played for
3 12: 03: 20 the jury in this case. Is that really how you want to
4 12: 03: 23 portray yourself?
5 12: 03: 24 A. As long as it's understood that I'm not getting a
6 12: 03: 27 clear definition of what it is you're asking for.
7 12: 03: 29 Q. Well, I'm using your words, do you realize that?
8 12: 03: 31 A. I do.
9 12: 03: 32 Q. And you refer to "my personal information." Do
10 12: 03: 37 you understand that terminology?
11 12: 03: 39 A. I think I understand the way I meant it.
12 12: 03: 42 Q. Okay, good.
13 12: 03: 42 I want to know how you meant it and where it is
14 12: 03: 45 safely stored?
15 12: 03: 46 A. My -- my impression is that Steve Cooley was
16 12: 03: 52 after something that he didn't want to define, and I
17 12: 03: 55 didn't want to define that for him. I wanted him to ask
18 12: 04: 00 me what it was he wanted. What I'm referring to would
19 12: 04: 04 be things that I kept on the computer related to all
20 12: 04: 10 sorts of topics.
21 12: 04: 12 Q. Including the motorcycle gang information?
22 12: 04: 15 A. Yes. Including --
23 12: 04: 17 Q. That's law enforcement-related information, isn't
24 12: 04: 20 it?
25 12: 04: 20 A. That is.
Page 107
1 12: 04: 20 Q. And you used it in connection with your law
2 12: 04: 24 enforcement duties, didn't you?
3 12: 04: 25 A. I did.
4 12: 04: 26 Q. Did you ever turn that information over to the
5 12: 04: 32 prosecuting attorney who has a duty to make discovery to
6 12: 04: 36 those people when they were prosecuted for crimes in
7 12: 04: 39 Whatcom County?
8 12: 04: 40 A. Can you rephrase that question?
9 12: 04: 49 Q. I'm just going to read it back because I think
10 12: 04: 59 it's clear. When we get there.
11 12: 05: 17 (Discussion off the record.)
12 12: 05: 17 Q. Did you ever turn that information over to the
13 12: 05: 23 prosecuting attorney who has a duty to make discovery to
14 12: 05: 26 those people when they were prosecuted for crimes in
15 12: 05: 29 Whatcom County?
16 12: 05: 30 MS. BESCHEN: I ' mgoi ng t o obj ect as vague.
17 12: 05: 33 A. I don't think there's any relevance between the
18 12: 05: 37 two.
19 12: 05: 38 Q. So you didn't turn it over to the prosecuting
20 12: 05: 42 attorney so he could make discovery of that information;
21 12: 05: 45 is that right?
22 12: 05: 45 A. I don't think I was ever asked.
23 12: 05: 48 Q. Well, you secured it, you removed it from your
24 12: 05: 52 computer and you safely stored it somewhere that hid it
25 12: 05: 58 from the discovery process, didn't you?
Page 108
1 12: 06: 00 A. No, I didn't.
2 12: 06: 02 MS. BESCHEN: I t ' s 12: 05.
3 12: 06: 04 Q. Did you ever produce it?
4 12: 06: 06 MR. KAMERRER: I ' msor r y? Go ahead.
5 12: 06: 07 MS. BESCHEN: I t ' s 12: 05. I s t her e a poi nt
6 12: 06: 10 t hat you - - a nat ur al st oppi ng poi nt her e?
7 12: 06: 10 MR. KAMERRER: I want an answer t o t hi s
8 12: 06: 12 quest i on and t hi s l i ne of quest i oni ng bef or e we t ake a
9 12: 06: 15 br eak.
10 12: 06: 18 A. I need to hear the question again. We're going
11 12: 06: 18 in circles and I --
12 12: 06: 18 THE REPORTER: Hol d - - wai t . Hol d i t . One
13 12: 06: 22 at a t i me.
14 12: 06: 22 MS. BESCHEN: I al so amnot cl ear on what
15 12: 06: 29 you' r e aski ng.
16 12: 06: 30 A. I feel like we're just going in circles here and
17 12: 06: 32 I'm, like, completely missing what it is you're after.
18 12: 06: 35 Q. Well, we've already established that you didn't
19 12: 06: 38 turn your private data over to the prosecutor to make
20 12: 06: 43 discovery with respect to any of those motorcycle gang
21 12: 06: 47 people who you've already said previously were
22 12: 06: 50 prosecuted for crimes in Whatcom County, okay, fine. We
23 12: 06: 54 know that.
24 12: 06: 54 Now I want to just find out from you whether you
25 12: 06: 59 recognized that you had some obligation to make
Page 109
1 12: 07: 05 discovery of that information in a criminal setting?
2 12: 07: 10 MS. BESCHEN: I obj ect as t o vague agai n.
3 12: 07: 12 What i nf or mat i on speci f i cal l y ar e you aski ng about ?
4 12: 07: 14 MR. KAMERRER: Hi s mot or cycl e gang
5 12: 07: 16 i nf or mat i on t hat was par t of hi s pr i vat e i nf or mat i on.
6 12: 07: 20 A. I think this might be answered by asking whether
7 12: 07: 26 you're after my own personal endeavor of my hobby
8 12: 07: 31 interest of studying motorcycle gangs or whether you are
9 12: 07: 35 asking for duty-related assigned motorcycle
10 12: 07: 41 investigations.
11 12: 07: 42 Q. Both.
12 12: 07: 43 A. Well, maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think I'm
13 12: 07: 51 under any obligation to furnish what belongs to me.
14 12: 07: 55 Q. Even though you used it in your law enforcement
15 12: 07: 57 duties and even though those people were prosecuted for
16 12: 08: 00 crimes in Whatcom County; is that right?
18 12: 08: 05 i n evi dence.
19 12: 08: 05 A. A lot of the information comes from books, books
20 12: 08: 08 that are publicly available on Amazon.
21 12: 08: 12 Q. When you on Page 22 of the interview on March 1
22 12: 08: 18 as referred to in Exhibit 7 said that your personal
23 12: 08: 22 information was safely stored, where was the motorcycle
24 12: 08: 27 gang information safely stored?
25 12: 08: 31 A. In the broad category of motorcycle gangs, I had
Page 110
1 12: 08: 36 information stored on a flash drive, I had information
2 12: 08: 41 stored on a web hosting service, with secured access,
3 12: 08: 47 private access only to invited parties. I had some the
4 12: 08: 53 information that I shared with other motorcycle gang
5 12: 08: 58 investigators around the country. I may have put some
6 12: 09: 11 on a CD at some point to file away in case my computer
7 12: 09: 16 crashed. But I don't recall ever being asked to furnish
8 12: 09: 22 any discovery materials on anything related to
9 12: 09: 25 motorcycle gangs. The question was never posed.
10 12: 09: 30 Q. You also had that information stored on the
11 12: 09: 34 original hard drive taken out of the Toughbook computer,
12 12: 09: 38 didn't you?
13 12: 09: 40 A. The original hard drive taken out of the
14 12: 09: 45 Toughbook computer? I would presume so, but that's
15 12: 09: 48 speculation on my part.
16 12: 09: 51 Q. That's where it had originally resided, isn't it?
17 12: 09: 54 A. Originally as in first installed?
18 12: 09: 59 Q. I don't know about first, second or any other
19 12: 10: 02 number, but you had your --
20 12: 10: 03 A. You said "originally."
21 12: 10: 05 Q. -- motorcycle gang information stored on the
22 12: 10: 09 Toughbook computer that was issued to you prior to the
23 12: 10: 13 migration; is that right?
24 12: 10: 15 A. That's true, but you qualified it by saying
25 12: 10: 19 "originally." So I'm trying to understand what you mean
Page 111
1 12: 10: 23 by "originally."
2 12: 10: 24 Q. I think you're trying to evade my question, but
3 12: 10: 27 that's fine.
4 12: 10: 28 MR. KAMERRER: Why don' t we t ake a br eak f or
5 12: 10: 30 l unch.
6 12: 10: 30 THE VI DEOGRAPHER: Of f t he r ecor d at 12: 10
7 12: 10: 33 p. m.
10 13: 16: 56 at 1: 16 p. m.
11 13: 17: 02 Q. Mr. Murphy, you understand you're still under
12 13: 17: 08 oath as at the beginning of the deposition?
13 13: 17: 12 A. I do.
14 13: 17: 12 Q. Okay. Thank you.
15 13: 17: 13 After -- let's see. Did the personal information
16 13: 17: 19 that you didn't want IT to see include materials that
17 13: 17: 28 you had posted on Facebook or any of the other social
18 13: 17: 32 media sites you used?
19 13: 17: 34 A. By my definition, no, I don't care about that. I
20 13: 17: 41 didn't those stuff -- those items.
21 13: 17: 46 Q. Did you put -- or did you use your office-issued
22 13: 17: 55 Toughbook computer to post materials on Facebook or any
23 13: 18: 01 of the other social media sites you used?
24 13: 18: 05 A. Probably.
25 13: 18: 07 Q. So did you use it to write personal or political
Page 112
1 13: 18: 11 messages or blogs?
2 13: 18: 13 A. That I would never do. I probably would do an
3 13: 18: 18 occasional update with some innocuous thing, but I've
4 13: 18: 27 never -- I would never do my political stuff on duty, I
5 13: 18: 30 wouldn't do my -- anything that might be seen as
6 13: 18: 33 controversial I wouldn't do on duty.
7 13: 18: 35 Q. Off duty did you use your County Toughbook
8 13: 18: 38 computer to access Facebook or any of the other social
9 13: 18: 44 media sites you used?
10 13: 18: 47 A. Probably.
11 13: 18: 48 Q. Did you post information on those sites off duty?
12 13: 18: 54 A. Probably.
13 13: 18: 55 Q. Did you visit political websites like Rush
14 13: 19: 03 Limbaugh and Mark Levin on your office computer?
15 13: 19: 06 A. Every day.
16 13: 19: 06 Q. On duty?
17 13: 19: 08 A. Every day.
18 13: 19: 09 Q. And off duty?
19 13: 19: 11 A. Probably not with those two off duty because I
20 13: 19: 19 have my own computers at home.
21 13: 19: 29 Q. Did you access records like NCIC or other law
22 13: 19: 35 enforcement data sites using the Toughbook computer off
23 13: 19: 44 duty?
24 13: 19: 44 A. Off duty, depends on how you define that, but it
25 13: 19: 49 was for duty purposes, so I would only use it for duty
Page 113
1 13: 19: 53 purposes, even though I might not actually be on shift.
2 13: 19: 57 So if I was writing a report, for example, on, I don't
3 13: 20: 06 know, say my Sunday before going in the next night, I
4 13: 20: 09 might finish up a report.
5 13: 20: 16 Q. For your motorcycle gang studies, did you go to
6 13: 20: 34 law enforcement data sites to get information on the
7 13: 20: 40 gang members that you were interested in?
8 13: 20: 48 A. It's not clear to me what you're asking. For my
9 13: 20: 54 hobby endeavors?
10 13: 20: 56 Q. Yeah, I called it motorcycle gang studies.
11 13: 20: 59 A. My motorcycle gang studies?
12 13: 21: 01 Q. Essentially I mean the same thing as your hobby
13 13: 21: 05 interest?
14 13: 21: 05 A. My research?
15 13: 21: 06 Q. Research, yeah?
16 13: 21: 09 A. I don't really know where you would go to look
17 13: 21: 12 for something like that in the first place, so I guess
18 13: 21: 15 no.
19 13: 21: 15 Q. Well, for example, if you identified a particular
20 13: 21: 20 person as a motorcycle gang member, would you use their
21 13: 21: 27 identity information to go to a law enforcement data
22 13: 21: 30 site to get information about them, such as conviction
23 13: 21: 34 data, other information that's available on those sites?
24 13: 21: 40 A. So like the Washington access system or NCIC --
25 13: 21: 40 Q. Yes.
Page 114
1 13: 21: 46 A. -- or I-520?
2 13: 21: 48 Q. Yes.
3 13: 21: 48 A. Yes.
4 13: 21: 50 Q. So you enhanced your hobby-like research with
5 13: 21: 57 official information from those law enforcement data
6 13: 22: 00 sites; is that right?
7 13: 22: 01 A. Enhanced it? No, I really tried to keep the two
8 13: 22: 12 separate, but I suppose there is probably some overlap
9 13: 22: 14 between the two.
10 13: 22: 15 Q. Yeah, maybe I used the wrong word by saying
11 13: 22: 18 "enhanced" and I should have just said learned
12 13: 22: 22 information about those individuals that you had
13 13: 22: 24 identified as motorcycle gang members.
14 13: 22: 27 Did you use law enforcement data sites to learn
15 13: 22: 31 more information about those people?
16 13: 22: 32 A. Probably.
17 13: 22: 38 Q. How would you access websites like Rush Limbaugh
18 13: 22: 45 and Mark Levin on duty and not interfere with your
19 13: 22: 49 official duties?
20 13: 22: 50 A. Mainly just for the show audios. Mark Levin, for
21 13: 22: 55 example, he has a daily audio feed that you open up your
22 13: 23: 01 browser and you click on the daily show, basically, so
23 13: 23: 05 while you're out patrolling around you push the play
24 13: 23: 08 button and instead of listening to music, I listened to
25 13: 23: 12 Mark Levin.
Page 115
1 13: 23: 13 Q. I see, okay.
2 13: 23: 16 Did you ever post a photograph of yourself on any
3 13: 23: 26 social media site where you were identifiable as a
4 13: 23: 31 Whatcom County deputy sheriff?
5 13: 23: 35 A. Up to this date? Yes.
6 13: 23: 39 Q. Well, how about up to the date you were
7 13: 23: 44 terminated?
8 13: 23: 49 A. Possibly.
9 13: 23: 49 Q. Did you also post a photograph that had been
10 13: 23: 54 Photoshopped to show President Obama in the back of a
11 13: 23: 59 patrol car behind the cage?
12 13: 24: 01 A. I did post that because a friend actually made
13 13: 24: 05 that and sent it to me. I thought it was kind of
14 13: 24: 10 humorous.
15 13: 24: 12 Q. Was that posted to Facebook?
16 13: 24: 14 A. I believe so.
17 13: 24: 15 Q. Did you later take that down?
18 13: 24: 17 A. No. It should still be there.
19 13: 24: 20 Q. Did you ever have any concern that since you were
20 13: 24: 46 identifiable as a Whatcom County deputy sheriff on your
21 13: 24: 51 Facebook page that posting photographs like the Obama in
22 13: 24: 59 the back seat of a patrol car behind the cage was going
23 13: 25: 02 to reflect poorly on deputy sheriffs?
24 13: 25: 05 A. I don't think there was a connection to the
25 13: 25: 07 Whatcom County Sheriff's office.
Page 116
1 13: 25: 11 Q. But somewhere some -- on that page, under Mark --
2 13: 25: 15 or Paul Murphy, you could find information, including
3 13: 25: 20 photographs, that showed you as a Whatcom County deputy
4 13: 25: 22 sheriff?
5 13: 25: 22 A. Well, you can now. I don't think you could then.
6 13: 25: 27 Q. And by "then," you mean before you were
7 13: 25: 30 terminated?
8 13: 25: 31 A. Yes.
9 13: 25: 31 Q. Are you trying to bring discredit on the Whatcom
10 13: 25: 39 County Sheriff's Office by posting your identity as a
11 13: 25: 43 former deputy sheriff?
12 13: 25: 45 A. No, I'm actually proud of it. I think I served
13 13: 25: 51 faithfully and honorably for 11 years.
14 13: 25: 59 Q. Were some of the photographs that you posted on
15 13: 26: 02 Facebook depicting you in uniform near a sheriff's
16 13: 26: 09 office car, patrol car?
17 13: 26: 13 A. Definitely now. Then, I don't know. I don't
18 13: 26: 20 think so.
19 13: 26: 21 Q. Have you altered any of the dates of postings on
20 13: 26: 25 Facebook from what automatically appears when you post
21 13: 26: 30 something?
22 13: 26: 31 A. If you can -- I didn't even know could you do
23 13: 26: 34 that.
24 13: 26: 34 Q. So you haven't?
25 13: 26: 35 A. I haven't even looked for that.
Page 117
1 13: 26: 38 Q. So if we found a photograph depicting you in
2 13: 26: 41 uniform whether or not in proximity to a Whatcom County
3 13: 26: 46 patrol car and it was dated sometime before your
4 13: 26: 51 termination, that would indicate you're not correct
5 13: 26: 54 today in saying you didn't do that until after
6 13: 26: 57 termination?
7 13: 26: 57 MS. BESCHEN: I obj ect as t o vague. What
8 13: 26: 59 i s - - do what ? What i s " do t hat " ?
9 13: 27: 03 MR. KAMERRER: I t hi nk he under st ands t he
10 13: 27: 05 quest i on. Thank you.
11 13: 27: 06 A. Well, I find myself guessing a lot on what you're
12 13: 27: 09 asking, so maybe I don't.
13 13: 27: 12 Yes, if you found a photograph predating my
14 13: 27: 17 termination, then, well, clearly you went looking for it
15 13: 27: 22 because I don't think my -- my intent was never to link
16 13: 27: 25 the two together. In fact, I thought I went out of my
17 13: 27: 28 way to try to keep the two separate. But, I mean, if
18 13: 27: 39 it's there, it's there.
19 13: 28: 15 MR. KAMERRER: Ar e we at 9?
20 13: 28: 17 THE REPORTER: Yes, si r , we ar e.
21 13: 28: 19 ( Exhi bi t No. 9 mar ked. )
23 13: 28: 39 Exhibit No. 9, do you recognize this as another set of
24 13: 28: 47 documents that are from your Facebook page?
25 13: 28: 51 MS. BESCHEN: Obj ect i on; vague as t o what
Page 118
1 13: 28: 54 " your Facebook page" i s.
2 13: 29: 02 A. I recognize this to be what looks like a series
3 13: 29: 08 of screen shots or a compiled history for the page of
4 13: 29: 15 which I am an admin and have posted to, yes.
5 13: 29: 18 Q. And it has a title and it's -- the title is Bill
6 13: 29: 27 Elfo Scribe?
7 13: 29: 27 A. Correct.
8 13: 29: 28 Q. Did you set this up?
9 13: 29: 29 A. I did.
10 13: 29: 30 Q. And it had an earlier name, didn't it? What was
11 13: 29: 35 that earlier name?
12 13: 29: 36 A. Well, you mentioned three, but I think it's
13 13: 29: 38 actually been through probably more like five or six
14 13: 29: 41 because I just didn't know what to name it. Still
15 13: 29: 44 don't. But I think it started off as something opposed
16 13: 29: 54 to Bill Elfo and then it became Boot Bill Elfo and then
17 13: 29: 59 it became something else, and so we're at the latest
18 13: 30: 03 revision, Bill Elfo Scribe.
19 13: 30: 09 Q. Okay.
20 13: 30: 12 Are you the primary author of the postings on
21 13: 30: 15 here?
22 13: 30: 15 A. I think that's accurate, yes.
23 13: 30: 19 Q. Wherever there is the title Bill Elfo Scribe and
24 13: 30: 29 then there's either a picture or text or something below
25 13: 30: 32 that, is that your writing, your posting?
Page 119
1 13: 30: 37 MS. BESCHEN: I obj ect . Vague. I s t her e a
2 13: 30: 39 speci f i c one t hat you' r e t al ki ng about or ar e you
3 13: 30: 41 t al ki ng about al l of t hemi n gener al ?
4 13: 30: 44 MR. KAMERRER: I ' mt al ki ng about al l of
5 13: 30: 45 t hem.
6 13: 30: 45 A. It sounds like you're asking me who has posting
7 13: 30: 45 rights.
8 13: 30: 48 Q. No. I'm just saying when it says "Bill Elfo
9 13: 30: 51 Scribe," is the text or photograph below that something
10 13: 30: 55 you posted?
11 13: 30: 57 A. Could be anybody that is an admin on the page.
12 13: 31: 00 Q. Who besides yourself is an admin?
13 13: 31: 04 A. Let's see. Me obviously, my wife, Lori, I
14 13: 31: 13 believe my daughter is still an admin, there was a
15 13: 31: 20 possibly still Tara Pavone, I think a Trisha -- drawing
16 13: 31: 31 a blank on her last name -- Trisha -- another person
17 13: 31: 36 named Trisha, I can't think of her last name at the
18 13: 31: 40 moment.
19 13: 31: 40 Q. Okay.
20 13: 31: 42 A. And there might have been one more.
21 13: 31: 44 Q. And what's your daughter's name?
22 13: 31: 46 A. Rachelle.
23 13: 31: 48 THE REPORTER: Rachel l e?
24 13: 31: 49 THE WI TNESS: Yeah. R- A- C- H- E- L- L- E.
25 13: 31: 53 Q. Murphy?
Page 120
1 13: 31: 54 A. Yes -- well, it's Kwiat now.
2 13: 31: 56 Q. How do you spell that?
3 13: 31: 57 A. K-W-I-A-T. She's married.
4 13: 32: 02 Q. Could you spell Tara Pavone's name, last name?
5 13: 32: 11 A. P-A-V-O-N-E.
6 13: 32: 20 Q. How do you know Tara Pavone?
7 13: 32: 28 A. She's one of the more prolific, more -- probably
8 13: 32: 33 one of the more vocal people when it comes to things
9 13: 32: 36 like missing people, Mandy Stavik's case, the Mandy
10 13: 32: 41 Stavik page -- actually, it's probably the Mandy Stavik
11 13: 32: 45 page is where I first got to know her just from
12 13: 32: 50 postings. Actually, I don't think I've ever met her
13 13: 32: 54 face to face. It's just through postings.
14 13: 32: 56 Q. Is she someone who has served time in the Whatcom
15 13: 33: 01 County Jail?
16 13: 33: 01 A. Couldn't tell you.
17 13: 33: 03 Q. Do you know whether she has a criminal history?
18 13: 33: 05 A. No idea.
19 13: 33: 06 Q. How about Trisha, have you thought of what her
20 13: 33: 09 last name is?
21 13: 33: 10 A. It's on the tip of my tongue. It'll -- it'll
22 13: 33: 14 come to me. Trisha...?
23 13: 33: 32 Q. Why don't we move on. If you think of the name,
24 13: 33: 35 let me know.
25 13: 33: 36 A. Okay.
Page 121
1 13: 33: 36 Q. How do you know Trisha?
2 13: 33: 39 A. She was pretty active in some investigations that
3 13: 33: 45 were going on in the Acme Valley area with some overlap
4 13: 33: 48 of questions and interaction on the Mandy Stavik page
5 13: 33: 55 related to Mandy Stavik's homicide. She was -- she
6 13: 34: 03 is -- I want to say she headed up a block watch down
7 13: 34: 07 there, but I'm not sure about that.
8 13: 34: 08 Q. Do you know if she has criminal history?
9 13: 34: 11 A. No idea.
10 13: 34: 12 Q. So you used the termed admin, do you mean
11 13: 34: 18 administrator?
12 13: 34: 19 A. Yes.
13 13: 34: 21 Q. And a person who is an administrator, do they
14 13: 34: 28 have authorization to post under the name Bill Elfo
15 13: 34: 33 Scribe?
16 13: 34: 33 A. Yes.
17 13: 34: 42 Q. On the first page of Exhibit 9, under Bill Elfo
18 13: 34: 51 Scribe, December 24 it says: Bill needs some help
19 13: 34: 56 feeling festive. And then there is a cartoon below that
20 13: 35: 00 that has Mr. -- Sheriff Elfo's photograph superimposed
21 13: 35: 07 on it. Is that a posting you made?
22 13: 35: 09 A. It is.
23 13: 35: 10 Q. And actually if you go to that site and you click
24 13: 35: 13 on that photograph, it actually plays a little ditty, a
25 13: 35: 17 cartoon, a moving cartoon; is that right?
Page 122
1 13: 35: 21 A. It does.
2 13: 35: 22 Q. Is that something you created?
3 13: 35: 24 A. It's -- yes, it is.
4 13: 35: 26 Q. And I take it you regard that as appropriate
5 13: 35: 35 political commentary; is that right?
6 13: 35: 37 A. Humorous, if nothing else. I know some people
7 13: 35: 44 that got a kick out of it.
8 13: 35: 47 Q. People who are like-minded with you?
9 13: 35: 50 A. Depending on how you define it.
10 13: 36: 00 Q. Turn to Page 9.
12 13: 36: 11 Q. And I'm going to talk about photographs and texts
13 13: 36: 19 that is posted on Page 9, 12, and 13. And I'm referring
14 13: 36: 33 to these numbers that are in the lower right of these
15 13: 36: 37 pages --
16 13: 36: 38 A. Okay.
17 13: 36: 39 Q. -- because some of these have been expanded and
18 13: 36: 43 aren't necessarily as numbered on Facebook. The first
19 13: 36: 51 question has to do with Page 9, under Bill Elfo Scribe
20 13: 36: 58 March 14. Did you post that text and photographs?
21 13: 37: 01 A. I did.
22 13: 37: 02 Q. And it appears you are focusing on somebody named
23 13: 37: 09 Patty Rohweder; is that right?
24 13: 37: 15 A. Yeah, that's probably a fair assessment.
25 13: 37: 17 Q. Where did you get this photograph that looks like
Page 123
1 13: 37: 22 early '70s high school yearbook set of photographs?
2 13: 37: 27 A. It was a long process of checking and following
3 13: 37: 34 up leads that I don't even know if I could recount, just
4 13: 37: 38 many, many hours of digging.
5 13: 37: 40 Q. Why were you doing that digging?
6 13: 37: 43 A. Well, I guess doing my own background research on
7 13: 37: 48 Mr. Elfo is and where he comes from and a little bit
8 13: 37: 51 about his history which I'm sure he has done about me.
9 13: 37: 58 Q. Why was Patty Rohweder somebody who you
10 13: 38: 03 associated with Sheriff Elfo?
11 13: 38: 07 A. There is a former marriage to a Patricia Rohweder
12 13: 38: 07 --
13 13: 38: 07 THE REPORTER: Pat r i ci a Rohweder ?
14 13: 38: 20 THE WI TNESS: Pat r i ci a Rohweder ,
15 13: 38: 24 R- O- W- E- D- E- R [ si c] .
16 13: 38: 25 A. And it was Mr. Elfo's former marriage to Patricia
17 13: 38: 32 Rohweder in Florida, some interesting aspects of that
18 13: 38: 35 caught my eye which I thought probably needed to be
19 13: 38: 40 vetted a little further.
20 13: 38: 43 Q. First of all, I think the spelling of her name is
21 13: 38: 47 R-O-H-W-E-D-E-R; is that correct?
22 13: 38: 49 A. I think you're right, yeah.
23 13: 38: 52 Q. What were the interesting aspects of that
24 13: 39: 05 relationship that you were interested in?
25 13: 39: 13 A. I haven't thought about it in some time so give
Page 124
1 13: 39: 17 me a second here to try to recall what it was that
2 13: 39: 22 was -- there was something -- something -- there was an
3 13: 39: 26 anomaly in the records that something that didn't
4 13: 39: 30 quite -- it didn't seem to be consistent with what I
5 13: 39: 34 thought I knew of Mr. Elfo, and I thought probably
6 13: 39: 39 something that needed to be vetted a little further.
7 13: 39: 43 But right off the top, it's not clear to me what that
8 13: 39: 46 was. I don't remember. I want to say it had to do with
9 13: 39: 51 a date or omission of a date somewhere, but right off
10 13: 39: 56 the top, I don't remember.
11 13: 40: 01 Q. On Page 12, you have a copy of -- well, first of
12 13: 40: 13 all, let me ask, did you post what appears under Bill
13 13: 40: 22 Elfo Scribe February 10?
14 13: 40: 25 A. February 10?
15 13: 40: 26 MS. BESCHEN: What page ar e you on?
16 13: 40: 29 MR. KAMERRER: 12.
17 13: 40: 38 A. Oh, yes.
18 13: 40: 39 Q. Yes, you did post that?
19 13: 40: 41 A. On Page 12. I did.
20 13: 40: 43 Q. And Sheriff Elfo's photograph is also on that
21 13: 40: 46 page next to Patricia Rohweder's photograph.
22 13: 40: 54 Why did you juxtapose those photographs in that
23 13: 40: 57 place?
24 13: 40: 58 A. It's an interesting -- well, whatever the anomaly
25 13: 41: 08 was aside, because I don't recall what that was, but
Page 125
1 13: 41: 12 when I found the photograph, I mean, it was an
2 13: 41: 18 obvious -- I mean, there's an obvious similarity there
3 13: 41: 21 that's hard to ignore.
4 13: 41: 23 Q. What does that similarity tell you?
5 13: 41: 25 A. By itself, nothing.
6 13: 41: 28 Q. What did you surmise it meant?
7 13: 41: 33 A. I think it meant it's interesting.
8 13: 41: 38 Q. Why -- why was this of interest to you?
9 13: 41: 45 A. I think it was a long way -- long roundabout
10 13: 41: 49 way -- actually, okay, I do remember now what it was.
11 13: 41: 53 I could not identify where this Patricia Rohweder
12 13: 41: 57 was today. And I thought if ever a time came when Mrs.
13 13: 42: 03 Rohweder or Mrs. Elfo or whoever she would identify
14 13: 42: 07 herself as today needed to be interviewed, how would I
15 13: 42: 12 go about getting in contact with her. Well, I don't
16 13: 42: 17 know where she is, so that's what began the process.
17 13: 42: 22 Q. Why would you be interested in interviewing her?
18 13: 42: 26 A. My understanding is that there is research that
19 13: 42: 31 goes into the background of anybody that's being pursued
20 13: 42: 35 in a federal court action, so I was just --
21 13: 42: 42 Q. Did you find divorce papers online?
22 13: 42: 45 A. I did.
23 13: 42: 45 Q. When were they divorced?
24 13: 42: 49 A. '78, I believe.
25 13: 42: 53 Q. Turn to Page 14.
Page 126
2 13: 43: 07 Q. You see at the top where it says: Bill Elfo
3 13: 43: 10 Scribe and, again, yes, there are some interesting
4 13: 43: 13 things, unexplained anomalies in his record trail.
5 13: 43: 17 Did you post that?
6 13: 43: 19 A. I did.
7 13: 43: 20 Q. And the last sentence of that posting says: Very
8 13: 43: 24 odd, considering they divorced in '83.
10 13: 43: 30 A. I did.
11 13: 43: 31 Q. So you must have found out that they were
12 13: 43: 33 divorced in 1983?
13 13: 43: 35 A. Apparently I did.
14 13: 43: 37 Q. That was 30-some years ago. Why was a divorce 30
15 13: 43: 43 years ago of interest to you relative to your lawsuit?
16 13: 43: 53 A. Not really knowing where -- where this was going
17 13: 43: 55 to wind up, I -- I just thought that it would be
18 13: 44: 00 something worth knowing. If somebody needed to be sent
19 13: 44: 04 to investigate or to make a phone call to Mrs. Rohweder
20 13: 44: 07 to ask her what she remembers about whatever.
21 13: 44: 12 Q. More than 30 years ago?
22 13: 44: 14 A. Well --
23 13: 44: 16 Q. Apparently so, isn't that right?
24 13: 44: 18 A. There is no limitation on my background, is
25 13: 44: 21 there?
Page 127
1 13: 44: 21 Q. Well, your answer is you were pursuing
2 13: 44: 23 information from someone who apparently terminated a
3 13: 44: 30 relationship with Sheriff Elfo 30-plus years ago, but I
4 13: 44: 35 take it you thought that was relevant; is that correct?
5 13: 44: 38 A. No, I don't think that is correct. I think
6 13: 44: 43 what's correct is to say that it was unknown.
7 13: 44: 46 Q. And you wanted to find out?
8 13: 44: 49 A. If somebody needed to ask her a question, how
9 13: 44: 52 would they reach her?
10 13: 44: 53 Q. Did you ever locate her?
11 13: 44: 54 A. No, I never did.
12 13: 45: 00 Q. Did you ever attempt to call her?
13 13: 45: 03 A. I wouldn't even know where to start. I don't
14 13: 45: 08 know where she lives.
15 13: 45: 10 Q. Down at the bottom of Page 14 after Bill Elfo
16 13: 45: 19 Scribe, it says: She could be Patricia Ann Nemeth --
17 13: 45: 25 N-E-M-E-T-H -- today. Did you post that?
18 13: 45: 34 A. Where are you at again?
19 13: 45: 35 Q. Bottom of Page 14.
21 13: 45: 45 Yeah, it looks like I would have, but I'm not
22 13: 45: 49 really understanding why the page printed out this way.
23 13: 45: 57 It almost looks like that should be a comment to a post,
24 13: 46: 01 but --
25 13: 46: 03 Q. Turn to Page 17, please.
Page 128
2 13: 46: 14 Q. About two-thirds of the way down starts "Bill
3 13: 46: 21 Elfo Scribe," and it says: To be clear, this post is
4 13: 46: 23 not about advancing or denying that this may be -- may
5 13: 46: 27 or may not be Bill Elfo in his youth.
7 13: 46: 34 A. I think so.
8 13: 46: 36 Q. So -- and it goes on to say: However, the
9 13: 46: 40 physical similarities are hard to ignore.
10 13: 46: 45 Did I read that correctly?
11 13: 46: 47 A. Yes.
12 13: 46: 50 Q. So were you attempting to imply that Sheriff Elfo
13 13: 46: 57 was the transgendered former Patricia Rohweder?
14 13: 47: 04 A. I'm simply saying that it's unknown. And I'm not
15 13: 47: 09 saying that it is, I'm not saying that it's not. I'm
16 13: 47: 12 saying that there's not enough information to say a lot
17 13: 47: 14 about it.
18 13: 47: 15 Q. So you were speculating in writing with
19 13: 47: 18 photographs that Bill Elfo has -- is a transgendered
20 13: 47: 25 male; is that right?
21 13: 47: 26 A. I don't think so.
22 13: 47: 27 Q. Isn't that what you're implying?
23 13: 47: 29 A. I am implying that there is an obvious
24 13: 47: 31 similarity.
25 13: 47: 31 Q. Didn't other people respond to this criticizing
Page 129
1 13: 47: 37 you for jumping the shark I think was one of the
2 13: 47: 41 phrases?
3 13: 47: 43 A. If it's there, it's there. I don't know.
4 13: 47: 47 Q. I mean, how low are you willing to go to defame
5 13: 47: 53 Sheriff Elfo?
6 13: 47: 54 MS. BESCHEN: Obj ect i on. I s t hat a
7 13: 47: 55 quest i on?
8 13: 47: 55 MR. KAMERRER: Yes, t hat ' s a quest i on.
9 13: 48: 02 A. I don't think it has to do with anything like
10 13: 48: 05 that. I think it has to do with determining what facts
11 13: 48: 08 are and separating facts from fiction.
12 13: 48: 10 Q. What facts did you think were going to be learned
13 13: 48: 15 with this investigation of Patricia Rohweder relative to
14 13: 48: 21 Sheriff Elfo?
15 13: 48: 22 A. Maybe where he's from.
16 13: 48: 23 Q. Well, you know where he's from.
17 13: 48: 25 A. No, I don't.
18 13: 48: 26 Q. You know he's from Florida.
19 13: 48: 28 A. It's been implied to me that he's from New
20 13: 48: 28 Jersey.
21 13: 48: 32 Q. Have you found any records indicating he's from
22 13: 48: 35 New Jersey?
23 13: 48: 36 A. New Jersey will not respond to any request for
24 13: 48: 39 information.
25 13: 48: 39 Q. So you haven't found out that he's from New
Page 130
1 13: 48: 42 Jersey; is that right?
2 13: 48: 42 A. I haven't found that he is not from New Jersey
3 13: 48: 45 either.
6 13: 49: 00 Q. Did you post the text that is on that page?
7 13: 49: 04 A. (Witness reviews document.) That appears to be,
8 13: 49: 11 yes.
9 13: 49: 12 Q. The second paragraph there says: This post is
10 13: 49: 16 about determining still as of yet undetermined facts
11 13: 49: 21 relating to a significant aspect of Bill Elfo's life.
12 13: 49: 26 One of those as of yet unidentified aspects is a
13 13: 49: 30 previous marriage to the person shown above, Patricia
14 13: 49: 34 Rohweder.
15 13: 49: 35 My question is, in that first sentence, what is
16 13: 49: 39 the significant aspect of Bill Elfo's life that you were
17 13: 49: 45 pursuing with the investigation that produced this post?
18 13: 49: 55 A. Well, I don't think you're the first one to say
19 13: 49: 58 he's from Florida. I think that seems to be common
20 13: 50: 04 knowledge that he's from Florida. However, records seem
21 13: 50: 07 to indicate that he's not from Florida.
22 13: 50: 10 Q. What records?
23 13: 50: 12 A. Just a variety of records that I've accumulated
24 13: 50: 16 in my research. Some of them are genealogical, some of
25 13: 50: 24 them are departmental state agency records. I believe
Page 131
1 13: 50: 30 there's one I found that all but says he's from New
2 13: 50: 36 Jersey.
3 13: 50: 36 Q. And you have those records in your possession?
4 13: 50: 39 A. I do.
5 13: 50: 41 Q. Are they on any of the hard drives that were
6 13: 50: 44 brought today?
7 13: 50: 46 A. It's doubtful.
8 13: 50: 49 Q. Again, we're going to make a request for
9 13: 50: 52 production for those documents, so don't do away with
10 13: 50: 55 them.
11 13: 50: 57 Turn the page to 20 of Exhibit 9.
12 13: 51: 09 Why did you post a photograph of a tombstone of
13 13: 51: 16 who you thought were Sheriff Elfo's relatives?
14 13: 51: 23 A. Because it's from the genealogical research page.
15 13: 51: 28 Q. What was the significance of posting a tombstone
16 13: 51: 32 photograph?
17 13: 51: 34 A. Because that's what that genealogical service
18 13: 51: 36 does.
19 13: 51: 39 Q. Why was that information important to you?
20 13: 51: 42 A. In genealogy research, grave markers, burial
21 13: 51: 49 information, burial texts, all sorts of -- any
22 13: 51: 56 monumental-type grave marker, that's very significant in
23 13: 51: 59 research, genealogical research.
24 13: 52: 00 Q. How were these people related to Sheriff Elfo?
25 13: 52: 04 A. Boy, I have to put this together. It's been a
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1 13: 52: 18 while since I've looked through this information, so
2 13: 52: 20 give me a second.
3 13: 52: 31 Ana and John, how did they fit in? This is the
4 13: 52: 35 reason I created a genealogy, so I wouldn't have to try
5 13: 52: 39 to keep this in my memory. But Elfo's mother was
6 13: 52: 45 married to Mr. -- Mr. Elfo's mother was married to a
7 13: 52: 53 Elfo from New Jersey and there was a connection between
8 13: 52: 58 these two, I want to say John was the brother, but I
9 13: 53: 05 also found another record that showed John E. had
10 13: 53: 09 deceased, had become deceased before his date of birth,
11 13: 53: 16 so obviously that's something that's not correct in the
12 13: 53: 19 records. You can't be -- you can't die before you're
13 13: 53: 26 born. So something is wrong somewhere. That's just an
14 13: 53: 34 anomaly, it's an unanswered thing that I never did get
15 13: 53: 38 quite defined.
16 13: 53: 38 Q. How does this information provide anything useful
17 13: 53: 42 relative to Sheriff Elfo?
18 13: 53: 45 A. Well, the hope was that the genealogy part of it
19 13: 53: 48 would lead to maybe trying to figure out where he is
20 13: 53: 51 from.
21 13: 53: 51 Q. Why is that important to you?
22 13: 53: 53 A. Well, because he's a -- he's a defendant in a
23 13: 53: 59 lawsuit, the question might come up at some point.
24 13: 54: 03 Q. Do you think he has misrepresented his origins in
25 13: 54: 07 any way to the public in Whatcom County?
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1 13: 54: 09 A. I think there's a chance of that.
2 13: 54: 11 Q. What's your evidence of that?
3 13: 54: 15 A. Well, that's why I was working on the genealogy.
4 13: 54: 18 Q. So the fact that, is it grandparents or great
5 13: 54: 23 grandparents may have been from New Jersey put you hot
6 13: 54: 28 on the trail of misrepresentation?
7 13: 54: 30 A. That's your characterization, not mine.
8 13: 54: 33 Q. Why do you have a photograph of someone
9 13: 54: 55 identified as Mary J. Parks on Page 20 of Exhibit 9?
10 13: 55: 05 A. I don't remember why.
11 13: 55: 08 Q. Did you think she was related in any way to
12 13: 55: 12 someone who works for the Whatcom County Sheriff's
13 13: 55: 16 office?
14 13: 55: 16 A. I don't remember why.
15 13: 55: 19 Q. You have included Undersheriff Jeff Parks in your
16 13: 55: 33 insults posted on Facebook, haven't you?
17 13: 55: 45 THE REPORTER: Can you r epeat t hat quest i on?
18 13: 55: 45 MR. KAMERRER: Sur e. You pr obabl y di dn' t
19 13: 55: 45 get i t .
20 13: 55: 45 THE REPORTER: That ' s why I ask you t o
21 13: 55: 49 r epeat i t i f somet hi ng sounds. . .
22 13: 55: 49 Q. Have you included Undersheriff Jeff Parks in your
23 13: 55: 55 insults posted on Facebook?
24 13: 55: 59 A. Again, your characterization, not mine, but he
25 13: 56: 03 has been referenced on that page, yes.
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1 13: 56: 06 Q. Did you think that this Mary J. Parks whose
2 13: 56: 09 photograph is on Page 20 of Exhibit 9 was somehow
3 13: 56: 13 related to Undersheriff Jeff Parks?
4 13: 56: 18 A. I have no way of knowing.
5 13: 56: 20 Q. So did you ever know anything that connected this
6 13: 56: 31 Mary J. Parks to Jeff Parks?
7 13: 56: 35 A. To the best of my knowledge, no.
10 13: 57: 07 Q. In the upper right-hand corner of that page,
11 13: 57: 11 there is a photograph of Undersheriff Jeff Parks with a
12 13: 57: 19 superimposed Hitler-type mustache. Was that posted by
13 13: 57: 25 you?
14 13: 57: 25 A. I believe so.
15 13: 57: 28 Q. And I characterize it as insult. What do you
16 13: 57: 32 characterize it as?
17 13: 57: 34 A. As something that's probably pretty commonly
18 13: 57: 45 understood internally within the office.
19 13: 57: 47 Q. So you were posting this so that other members of
20 13: 57: 52 the sheriff's office would see it?
21 13: 57: 58 A. I don't think that's correct.
22 13: 58: 02 Q. You posted it so anybody who went to your
23 13: 58: 05 Facebook page could see it?
24 13: 58: 07 A. Well, it is social media.
25 13: 58: 09 Q. And do you think it's an insult to Undersheriff
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1 13: 58: 16 Parks to be characterized as Hitler?
2 13: 58: 19 A. Probably.
3 13: 58: 21 Q. And that's how you intended it, didn't you?
4 13: 58: 25 A. Probably.
5 13: 58: 25 Q. And that's another example of your view of
6 13: 58: 39 appropriate political commentary?
7 13: 58: 42 A. Well, after the seven years of hell that I've
8 13: 58: 44 been through, I think I'm entitled to a little bit of
9 13: 58: 48 grievance. If it can't be aired internally, there you
10 13: 59: 38 go.
12 14: 00: 20 Q. Showing you what's been marked as Exhibit 10,
13 14: 00: 26 Mr. Murphy, do you recognize this as an email that you
14 14: 00: 36 sent to I believe he's a lieutenant, Eric Francis -- or
15 14: 00: 42 excuse me, Lieutenant Kevin Hester from you on March 5,
16 14: 00: 49 2012? And I'll point out that I have numbered the
17 14: 00: 56 paragraphs on the left-hand side just for ease of
18 14: 00: 59 reference.
19 14: 01: 00 A. Yep, it looks like the one.
20 14: 01: 03 Q. So this occurred after the March 1, 2012
21 14: 01: 10 interview that you had with Inspector Cooley; is that
22 14: 01: 20 right?
23 14: 01: 20 A. Yep.
24 14: 01: 21 Q. And you say that you -- this was done to clarify
25 14: 01: 26 some things; is that right?
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1 14: 01: 27 A. That was my intent, yeah.
2 14: 01: 30 Q. When you referred in the second paragraph there
3 14: 01: 59 to "now surrendered MDT," were you referring to the
4 14: 02: 03 Panasonic Toughbook computer that had been transferred
5 14: 02: 07 to you by Deputy Roff at the beginning of 2008?
6 14: 02: 18 A. Yes.
7 14: 02: 18 Q. In Paragraph 6, where you say: Second, I didn't
8 14: 02: 34 document anything about the replacement of the drive
9 14: 02: 37 because frankly I never imagined that it was ever going
10 14: 02: 41 to be an issue, especially in light of the two previous
11 14: 02: 46 instances, in that sentence when you refer to
12 14: 02: 53 "replacement of the drive," were you referring to the
13 14: 02: 56 hard drive that originally came from Roff to you in the
14 14: 03: 05 Panasonic Toughbook computer?
15 14: 03: 07 A. Say that again.
16 14: 03: 15 Q. Were you referring to the original hard drive in
17 14: 03: 18 the Toughbook computer that you received from Roff?
18 14: 03: 23 A. Yeah, it appears so.
19 14: 03: 34 Q. And in the last sentence, you say: I can
20 14: 03: 46 probably come up with the receipt for the drive I
21 14: 03: 50 purchased, but that isn't going to help identify what
22 14: 03: 53 was removed.
23 14: 03: 55 Again, were you referring to a drive you
24 14: 03: 59 purchased to replace the original drive from that
25 14: 04: 05 Panasonic Toughbook computer?
Page 137
1 14: 04: 07 A. I think so.
2 14: 04: 09 Q. So you're confirming that you did replace the
3 14: 04: 17 hard drive in the Toughbook computer, isn't that
4 14: 04: 22 correct?
5 14: 04: 22 A. Well, yeah, I think so.
6 14: 04: 29 Q. And you're recalling a purchase of a replacement
7 14: 04: 40 drive for that computer; is that right?
8 14: 04: 48 A. I have bought hard drives before, so which one
9 14: 04: 52 was for what I'm not sure.
10 14: 04: 54 Q. Did you ever come up with the receipt for that
11 14: 04: 57 purchased hard drive?
12 14: 05: 00 A. Not that I could, no, I didn't.
13 14: 05: 03 Q. How much did that hard drive cost?
14 14: 05: 05 A. I don't know. They weren't expensive, I know
15 14: 05: 10 that.
16 14: 05: 10 Q. More than $50?
17 14: 05: 13 A. Oh, 40 to 50 sounds about right for a laptop
18 14: 05: 19 drive. I think it was based more on the size of the
19 14: 05: 28 drive than that it was a laptop.
20 14: 05: 31 Q. In Paragraph 8, the last sentence, you say: I'm
21 14: 05: 37 happy to return it, but I need to be able to identify it
22 14: 05: 41 to do so.
23 14: 05: 44 Were you referring to the Panasonic Toughbook
24 14: 05: 49 computer's original hard drive in that sentence?
25 14: 05: 53 A. I'm telling him I'm not trying to keep anything
Page 138
1 14: 05: 56 from the County.
2 14: 05: 57 Q. But the "it" that you're referring to there was
3 14: 06: 01 the original hard drive of the Toughbook computer, isn't
4 14: 06: 06 that right?
5 14: 06: 07 A. No, I don't think that is right.
6 14: 06: 09 Q. What were you planning to return?
7 14: 06: 11 A. If it turns up, if I find it in a box somewhere,
8 14: 06: 17 I'll give it back.
9 14: 06: 18 Q. And by that you mean the hard drive from the
10 14: 06: 21 Panasonic Toughbook computer, the original hard drive?
11 14: 06: 24 A. I'm telling him I have no intent to keep anything
12 14: 06: 27 that doesn't belong to me.
13 14: 06: 38 Q. Do you have anything other than your statements
14 14: 06: 45 here to support any conclusion other than that you have
15 14: 06: 54 retained the original hard drive from the Panasonic
16 14: 06: 59 Toughbook computer?
17 14: 06: 59 A. Absolutely.
18 14: 07: 00 Q. What is that?
19 14: 07: 02 A. Practically torn my shop apart at least twice in
20 14: 07: 05 the time since this was written until now, and I am
21 14: 07: 10 confident that I do not have that hard drive. I wasn't
22 14: 07: 15 so sure at this time because I just -- I mean, my shop
23 14: 07: 21 is 40 by 60. It's a big shop. And I have a lot of
24 14: 07: 25 storage in that shop. So it takes some time to go
25 14: 07: 29 through and check drawers and check storage bins and
Page 139
1 14: 07: 33 check packages of things that I just -- I'm a pack rat
2 14: 07: 40 when it comes to keeping old parts, so it just takes
3 14: 07: 44 some time to do that.
4 14: 07: 45 So at this time I don't believe I had done that
5 14: 07: 47 yet. I was hoping that they could give me a serial
6 14: 07: 50 number and I would go pull out my boxes of drives and go
7 14: 07: 53 drive by drive and say, okay, that's the one right there
8 14: 07: 56 and I'll give it back to them.
9 14: 07: 58 Q. You told us earlier you've only had four or five
10 14: 08: 02 computers and only one of them was a laptop computer,
11 14: 08: 07 other than your County-assigned computer.
12 14: 08: 10 A. I believe you asked me how many functional
13 14: 08: 13 computers I had, functional.
14 14: 08: 17 Q. Well, how many hard drives for laptops could you
15 14: 08: 24 possibly have?
16 14: 08: 25 A. Well, you're looking at what I have, what I
17 14: 08: 29 brought in today is what I have.
18 14: 08: 30 Q. Three?
19 14: 08: 31 A. With the exception of the one from the old -- the
20 14: 08: 36 old Dell Latitude that I used to have in my patrol car,
21 14: 08: 41 my own personal laptop. So I have four total laptop
22 14: 08: 46 drives. I know that today, I can answer that today. I
23 14: 08: 49 didn't know that in March of 2012.
24 14: 08: 54 Q. So when you removed the hard drive from the
25 14: 08: 57 Panasonic Toughbook computer, you put it somewhere where
Page 140
1 14: 09: 02 it cannot be found; is that right?
2 14: 09: 04 A. I believe I gave it back to IT.
3 14: 09: 06 Q. You didn't believe that at the time of the March
4 14: 09: 09 1, 2012 interview, did you?
5 14: 09: 12 A. I am -- I'm not sure what I believed and what I
6 14: 09: 17 didn't believe.
7 14: 09: 17 Q. You certainly didn't say that you --
8 14: 09: 20 A. I was clearly confused about some aspects of what
9 14: 09: 23 I did and what computers I did it to.
10 14: 09: 25 Q. You certainly didn't say in the March 1, 2012
11 14: 09: 28 interview that you had returned the hard drive to the
12 14: 09: 32 County, did you?
13 14: 09: 33 A. I couldn't remember that, so I couldn't say that,
14 14: 09: 36 could I.
15 14: 09: 37 Q. And, actually, in your email, after you thought
16 14: 09: 44 about things more, that is the email to Kevin Hester,
17 14: 09: 52 Exhibit 10, the only place where you suggested you may
18 14: 10: 02 have returned the original hard drive from the Toughbook
19 14: 10: 05 computer was Paragraph 11, the last sentence. Could you
20 14: 10: 19 look at that?
22 14: 10: 35 Q. In Paragraph 11, the last sentence you say: It
23 14: 10: 39 is also very likely that the old drive went back to them
24 14: 10: 42 attached to the MDT.
25 14: 10: 46 That's the only place where you say or suggest
Page 141
1 14: 10: 51 that you may have returned the original hard drive from
2 14: 10: 54 the Panasonic Toughbook computer to the County, correct?
3 14: 11: 03 A. I'll take your word for it. I haven't
4 14: 11: 07 inventoried where I've made those statements.
5 14: 11: 13 Q. How was it attached to the computer when you took
6 14: 11: 20 it in for the migration?
7 14: 11: 23 A. Do you want my speculation or do you want my
8 14: 11: 25 recollection?
9 14: 11: 26 Q. I would like the truth.
10 14: 11: 27 A. Well, I'm trying to give you the truth, but
11 14: 11: 31 clearly this process has not been about determining the
12 14: 11: 33 truth.
13 14: 11: 35 Q. Answer the question, please.
14 14: 11: 36 A. I believe that I returned the old hard drive
15 14: 11: 46 based on a conversation with either John or somebody
16 14: 11: 49 else at IT, and when the computer went in for migration,
17 14: 11: 55 they took the old hard drive and they put the -- either
18 14: 11: 58 I put the new hard drive in or they put the new hard
19 14: 12: 02 drive in and it was attached to the computer and they
20 14: 12: 04 reloaded it with their software package.
21 14: 12: 09 Q. What was said in the conversation with John or
22 14: 12: 13 someone else from IT?
23 14: 12: 14 A. I don't -- I don't recall exactly.
24 14: 12: 18 Q. So the old hard drive, the original hard drive
25 14: 12: 22 from the Panasonic Toughbook computer was not attached
Page 142
1 14: 12: 27 to the MDT, such as by tape or rubber band or something
2 14: 12: 32 else?
3 14: 12: 33 A. It could have been.
4 14: 12: 34 Q. You don't remember that?
5 14: 12: 35 A. I don't remember, no. I had no reason to keep
6 14: 12: 46 any part of it.
7 14: 12: 50 Q. Do you distinctly remember that the original hard
8 14: 12: 54 drive from the Toughbook computer was separate from the
9 14: 13: 00 rest of the box, the keyboard and screen and the rest of
10 14: 13: 04 it?
11 14: 13: 04 A. Do I remember that the hard drive was separate?
12 14: 13: 08 Q. Yes.
13 14: 13: 08 A. As in out of it?
14 14: 13: 10 Q. Correct.
15 14: 13: 10 A. I do remember having the enclosure out of that
16 14: 13: 15 MDT. I had that enclosure out. I thought I did some
17 14: 13: 19 maintenance to it, that's what led me to think that
18 14: 13: 22 perhaps I did actually replace that hard drive and I
19 14: 13: 26 just didn't remember it.
20 14: 13: 27 Q. So as it was turned in for the migration in
21 14: 13: 31 September, 2010, the computer itself did not have a hard
22 14: 13: 37 drive in it, is that what you're saying?
23 14: 13: 39 A. Oh, I'm sure it had a hard drive in it.
24 14: 13: 41 Q. So it had a hard drive in it, it had a separate
25 14: 13: 44 one attached and -- is that correct?
Page 143
1 14: 13: 46 A. That's what I believe.
2 14: 13: 49 Q. So which was the hard drive that was attached?
3 14: 13: 54 A. Like I said, I don't know.
4 14: 13: 56 Q. Which was the hard drive that was in the
5 14: 13: 57 computer?
6 14: 13: 58 A. I don't know.
7 14: 13: 59 Q. Do you know what the size of that drive was that
8 14: 14: 01 was in the computer?
9 14: 14: 02 A. I don't.
10 14: 14: 03 Q. Did you put that new drive in the Toughbook
11 14: 14: 10 computer?
12 14: 14: 11 A. It's possible.
13 14: 14: 13 Q. You don't know?
14 14: 14: 14 A. I don't specifically recall that, no, but it's
15 14: 14: 17 possible.
16 14: 14: 18 Q. Do you remember purchasing a hard drive to put
17 14: 14: 23 into that computer?
18 14: 14: 24 A. I remember buying a hard drive around that time,
19 14: 14: 31 but I -- I -- it would be a stretch to say that it was
20 14: 14: 34 for this computer.
21 14: 14: 35 Q. What was the size of that hard drive that you
22 14: 14: 38 bought?
23 14: 14: 38 A. Don't remember.
24 14: 14: 40 Q. Was it in a box originally as it came from the
25 14: 14: 46 seller?
Page 144
1 14: 14: 46 A. I don't think so.
2 14: 14: 47 Q. Was it in one of these moisture proof static
3 14: 14: 51 resistant bags?
4 14: 14: 52 A. Most of the hard drives that I bought were in
5 14: 14: 58 that silvery antistatic bag that the one hard drive was
6 14: 15: 01 in.
7 14: 15: 01 Q. Did you take it out of that bag and go through
8 14: 15: 05 the process I described earlier about taking out the
9 14: 15: 09 case that the Toughbook hard drive is in and unscrewing
10 14: 15: 12 it?
11 14: 15: 12 A. It's possible.
12 14: 15: 13 Q. It's only possible, you just don't know?
13 14: 15: 16 A. You're asking me if I have independent
14 14: 15: 18 recollection, and I do not.
15 14: 15: 19 Q. You recognize now, don't you, that your
16 14: 15: 31 statements about attaching the original hard drive and
17 14: 15: 38 turning it in to IT, even though it's speculation on
18 14: 15: 43 your part, it's also inconsistent with what you said in
19 14: 15: 47 the May 1 -- or the March 1, 2012 interview?
20 14: 15: 52 A. Well, there was some confusion about what actions
21 14: 15: 55 had been performed to what computer.
22 14: 15: 59 Q. It's inconsistent with what you told Cooley in
23 14: 16: 02 that interview though, isn't it?
24 14: 16: 04 A. It's -- it's inconsistent as it relates --
25 14: 16: 11 pertains to the MDT, but it's not as it pertains to the
Page 145
1 14: 16: 16 Dell Latitude. I was confused about which computer I
2 14: 16: 22 was remembering is what it comes down to.
3 14: 16: 25 Q. That was self-induced confusion because Cooley
4 14: 16: 29 referred specifically to the Toughbook computer, didn't
5 14: 16: 33 he?
6 14: 16: 35 A. Yes.
7 14: 16: 40 Q. You realize as a law enforcement officer that
8 14: 16: 44 when you find that a suspect who you have been
9 14: 16: 52 interviewing changes their story, that you have
10 14: 16: 57 basically have got them?
11 14: 17: 00 A. No, I don't.
12 14: 17: 01 Q. And that when they say something like, "I wasn't
13 14: 17: 05 at that house where that crime occurred on that night"
14 14: 17: 09 and then you keep questioning them and they say, "Well,
15 14: 17: 13 I was there just for ten minutes," you know they're
16 14: 17: 16 lying, don't you?
17 14: 17: 17 A. In that circumstance, yes.
18 14: 17: 20 Q. And that's an inconsistency in their story?
19 14: 17: 23 A. But inconsistency does not mean untruth.
20 14: 17: 28 Q. You wouldn't give up on the interview if he said,
21 14: 17: 30 "I wasn't there"?
22 14: 17: 31 A. No, I would not.
23 14: 17: 33 Q. You would pursue and after you got him to change
24 14: 17: 38 his story you would tell him you knew he was lying,
25 14: 17: 42 wouldn't you?
Page 146
1 14: 17: 42 A. I would.
2 14: 17: 44 Q. You realize it would be a theft to deprive the
3 14: 17: 50 County of property it owned, don't you?
4 14: 17: 51 A. I do.
5 14: 17: 55 Q. Your lack of recollection and your willingness to
6 14: 18: 03 speculate in a way that is inconsistent with what you
7 14: 18: 07 said in your March 1, 2012 interview sounds like you're
8 14: 18: 16 trying to excuse a theft of County equipment. Can you
9 14: 18: 19 tell me why that's not correct?
10 14: 18: 21 A. That is your characterization and I think it's
11 14: 18: 25 completely wrong.
12 14: 18: 27 Q. Why is it wrong?
13 14: 18: 28 A. Because I don't -- I've already told you several
14 14: 18: 31 times I don't want to answer the question because I
15 14: 18: 33 don't remember. Yet you are compelling me to answer
16 14: 18: 36 anyway.
17 14: 18: 36 Q. Well, you have answered in the March --
18 14: 18: 39 A. You're forcing me to.
19 14: 18: 41 Q. In the March 1 interview you answered, and you
20 14: 18: 48 said something inconsistent with what you're saying now.
21 14: 18: 51 Can you tell me why it's wrong to believe that you have
22 14: 18: 54 lied about what you did with that computer?
23 14: 18: 57 A. As I've already explained to you, new information
24 14: 19: 00 has been found in that -- in the interim time that
25 14: 19: 06 explains some of what was misunderstood at the time.
Page 147
1 14: 19: 09 Q. What is that new information?
2 14: 19: 11 A. As I've already explained to you, I found a new
3 14: 19: 16 hard drive or I found a hard drive that previously I
4 14: 19: 18 didn't know that I had that explains some of what I
5 14: 19: 21 remember.
6 14: 19: 26 Q. What is that hard drive that you found?
7 14: 19: 29 A. It's the one I've already showed you.
8 14: 19: 32 Q. Did you bring it here today?
9 14: 19: 33 A. You've already seen it.
10 14: 19: 35 Q. Which one is it of the three?
11 14: 19: 37 A. It's the one that -- the 40 gigabyte, the 40 gig
12 14: 19: 37 Hitachi.
13 14: 19: 43 Q. So that was one -- that wasn't from the Toughbook
14 14: 19: 45 computer?
15 14: 19: 46 A. I don't think so, no.
16 14: 19: 47 Q. It was from an earlier computer that was assigned
17 14: 19: 51 to you?
18 14: 19: 51 A. It's a Dell Latitude.
19 14: 19: 53 Q. So that's County equipment?
20 14: 19: 55 A. I don't know that. The County can't tell me what
21 14: 20: 00 was supposed to be in the computer.
22 14: 20: 01 Q. Is it a hard drive that you removed from a County
23 14: 20: 05 computer and replaced with a larger drive?
24 14: 20: 09 MS. BESCHEN: I t ' s asked and answer ed. He
25 14: 20: 11 doesn' t know.
Page 148
1 14: 20: 13 Q. Do you think that it was?
2 14: 20: 15 A. I think there's a possibility that it could be.
3 14: 20: 19 But I think short of the County being able to
4 14: 20: 23 demonstrate to me or furnish me with information that
5 14: 20: 25 helps me figure out what was supposed to be in the
6 14: 20: 27 computer, I don't know how I can possibly be expected to
7 14: 20: 31 determine it.
8 14: 20: 32 Q. Well, I mean, that's a convenient dodge because
9 14: 20: 38 you know the County doesn't keep -- they don't break
10 14: 20: 41 into a computer, take out the hard drive and record the
11 14: 20: 45 serial number of the hard drive which is distinct from
12 14: 20: 49 the serial number of the computer itself, isn't it?
13 14: 20: 54 A. That was several questions.
14 14: 20: 59 Q. Well, go ahead and answer.
15 14: 21: 00 A. Which one?
16 14: 21: 02 Q. It's one question, I'll read it to you again.
17 14: 21: 06 That's a convenient dodge because you know the
18 14: 21: 10 County doesn't keep, they don't break into a computer,
19 14: 21: 13 take out the hard drive and record the serial number of
20 14: 21: 16 the hard drive which is distinct from the serial number
21 14: 21: 20 of the computer itself --
22 14: 21: 21 MS. BESCHEN: Obj ect i on.
23 14: 21: 22 Q. -- isn't it?
24 14: 21: 24 MS. BESCHEN: Assumes f act s not i n evi dence
25 14: 21: 26 and mi schar act er i zes t est i mony.
Page 149
1 14: 21: 28 Go ahead.
2 14: 21: 29 MR. KAMERRER: Go ahead.
3 14: 21: 30 A. I didn't know. First of all, the presuppositions
4 14: 21: 35 are incorrect. I did not know that the County didn't
5 14: 21: 39 track hard drives. You're assuming that I did, and I
6 14: 21: 42 did not. I wouldn't have asked the question if I
7 14: 21: 44 thought they couldn't give me an answer. So I really
8 14: 21: 47 thought that somebody would be able to pull up their
9 14: 21: 51 little tracking system and tell me it should have hard
10 14: 21: 55 drive such-and-such in it and then I would have a
11 14: 21: 58 number. So no, I didn't know that.
12 14: 22: 04 Most computers that I have bought, they -- they
13 14: 22: 07 furnish you with component numbers of the pieces that
14 14: 22: 11 are used in the building of that computer. The computer
15 14: 22: 14 that I just bought -- actually two new computers that I
16 14: 22: 17 just bought, both of them had hard drive information on
17 14: 22: 20 the label. It told me what serial number hard drive is
18 14: 22: 23 in the computer. So no, I did not know that. I
19 14: 22: 26 presumed that they would be able to tell me.
20 14: 22: 29 Q. When did you begin looking for the hard drive
21 14: 22: 39 that you removed from the Panasonic Toughbook computer?
22 14: 22: 44 A. Probably immediately. As soon as I realized that
23 14: 22: 50 that's something that was the subject of interest is
24 14: 22: 54 probably when I went looking for it right away.
25 14: 22: 57 Q. How do you explain that a inoperable 20 gigabyte
Page 150
1 14: 23: 20 hard drive was found inside the Toughbook computer when
2 14: 23: 29 IT attempted to perform the migration in September 2010?
3 14: 23: 34 MS. BESCHEN: Obj ect i on. Cal l s f or
4 14: 23: 38 specul at i on.
5 14: 23: 38 A. Should I speculate?
6 14: 23: 41 Q. Well, she's not defining that it calls for
7 14: 23: 45 speculation. She's making an objection for the record.
8 14: 23: 48 I would like to you answer the question.
9 14: 23: 49 MS. BESCHEN: I f you can.
10 14: 23: 50 A. The only way I can answer it is to speculate,
11 14: 23: 53 because I don't know.
12 14: 23: 54 Q. What is your best surmise to explain that?
13 14: 23: 57 A. I think IT screwed up.
14 14: 24: 02 Q. How so, how did they screw up?
15 14: 24: 05 MS. BESCHEN: Same obj ect i on. Cal l s f or
16 14: 24: 05 specul at i on.
17 14: 24: 11 Pl ease onl y answer what i s i n your
18 14: 24: 13 knowl edge, unl ess your quest i on i s speci f i cal l y f or hi m
19 14: 24: 17 t o specul at e.
20 14: 24: 18 Q. To the best of your knowledge, what -- how did IT
21 14: 24: 20 screw up as you put it?
22 14: 24: 23 A. I don't think that 20 gigabyte drive came out of
23 14: 24: 29 my computer.
24 14: 24: 30 Q. So you think they are not telling the truth when
25 14: 24: 34 they say they found that 20 gigabyte hard drive in your
Page 151
1 14: 24: 38 computer?
2 14: 24: 39 A. I didn't say they were lying, I said I think they
3 14: 24: 42 screwed up.
4 14: 24: 45 Q. Have you talked to anyone about how that 20
5 14: 24: 49 gigabyte hard drive was found?
6 14: 24: 51 A. I did not.
7 14: 25: 05 Q. If you didn't want someone to access information
8 14: 25: 10 on the original Toughbook computer hard drive, removing
9 14: 25: 18 it and installing an inoperable drive of any type would
10 14: 25: 25 be a way to avoid that, correct?
11 14: 25: 27 A. I think you've already asked that several times,
12 14: 25: 30 and that is one possibility, yes.
13 14: 25: 32 Q. When you got the computer back post migration,
14 14: 25: 46 did it operate correctly?
15 14: 25: 49 A. I think so.
16 14: 25: 52 Q. Did you avoid installing or reinstalling the
17 14: 25: 58 personal information you wanted to -- you didn't want IT
18 14: 26: 03 to see on that drive?
19 14: 26: 08 A. I definitely started handling the file
20 14: 26: 12 organization differently. I stopped using it -- I
21 14: 26: 19 stopped using the County computer as a quasi personal
22 14: 26: 24 computer, so I didn't put my own family banking stuff on
23 14: 26: 28 there after that.
24 14: 26: 30 But some of the -- some of the files were still
25 14: 26: 32 in my backups, so I guess the answer is yes, I did.
Page 152
1 14: 26: 39 Q. So explain how you used that information from
2 14: 26: 48 backups and using the Toughbook computer?
3 14: 26: 51 MS. BESCHEN: Obj ect i on. Vague.
4 14: 26: 53 A. I need to hear that one more time. We're just
5 14: 27: 02 going in circles here and you're losing me, so if I
6 14: 27: 05 could hear that one more time, please.
7 14: 27: 07 Q. You referred to your backups, what are those?
8 14: 27: 10 A. Any -- any backup of any type for -- in the case
9 14: 27: 18 of a computer failure so you don't lose your data.
10 14: 27: 22 Q. To what storage device would you perform a
11 14: 27: 29 backup?
12 14: 27: 30 A. Excuse me.
13 14: 27: 32 At the time of the migration onward?
14 14: 27: 38 Q. Post migration.
15 14: 27: 46 A. So from migration onward, I don't think I could
16 14: 27: 49 use Carbonite anymore, so I think Carbonite was out. I
17 14: 27: 54 don't think I could use any of my own file storage
18 14: 27: 57 services from that point forward, so I think that was
19 14: 28: 00 out. So I think I'm down to a flash drive or backup
20 14: 28: 04 disc on a CD.
21 14: 28: 08 Q. Had you stored personal information on a flash
22 14: 28: 16 drive, a CD or Carbonite before the migration?
23 14: 28: 21 MS. BESCHEN: Obj ect i on. Vague.
24 14: 28: 23 A. Yes.
25 14: 28: 29 Q. Did you use those storage devices other than the
Page 153
1 14: 28: 33 Carbonite to re-access that information post migration?
2 14: 28: 41 MS. BESCHEN: Same obj ect i on.
3 14: 28: 48 A. Not that I can recall.
4 14: 28: 53 MR. KAMERRER: I woul d l i ke t o t ake a br eak.
5 14: 28: 56 THE VI DEOGRAPHER: Goi ng of f t he r ecor d at
6 14: 28: 58 2: 28 p. m.
9 14: 48: 47 at 2: 48.
12 14: 48: 52 Exhibit 11, are these photocopies of the bag and each
13 14: 49: 11 side of the three hard disc drives that you brought to
14 14: 49: 20 the deposition today in response to our request for
15 14: 49: 25 production?
16 14: 49: 25 A. Yes.
17 14: 49: 26 Q. And is it the fourth page of that exhibit that is
18 14: 49: 56 a photocopy of the hard disc that may have come from a
19 14: 50: 02 County computer?
20 14: 50: 07 A. Fourth and fifth. It's possible, but I guess
21 14: 50: 18 that's speculation, actually.
22 14: 50: 21 Q. And just to further distinguish this in case
23 14: 50: 23 these pages get mixed up, that is a Hitachi Travel Star
24 14: 50: 32 disc with a model number of HTS541040 G9 SA 00?
25 14: 50: 51 A. That looks right, yeah.
Page 154
1 14: 50: 53 Q. Okay.
2 14: 50: 59 A. I don't have my glasses, but I think so.
3 14: 51: 07 Q. Where did you find that 40 gigabyte Hitachi
4 14: 51: 15 Travel Star disc?
5 14: 51: 17 A. I found it in some patrol bags that had been
6 14: 51: 22 removed from my patrol car that I realized at some point
7 14: 51: 27 that I had never actually gone through and looked
8 14: 51: 30 through all of my patrol bags.
9 14: 51: 36 Q. Have you purchased an 80 gigabyte hard drive at
10 14: 51: 53 some point?
11 14: 51: 55 A. Not that I can find record of.
12 14: 52: 00 Q. Is the bag that is the first page of Exhibit 11
13 14: 52: 09 from a hard drive that you purchased?
14 14: 52: 13 A. I believe so, but I don't have a receipt to back
15 14: 52: 17 it up.
16 14: 52: 17 Q. Do you recognize that that bag has a label on it
17 14: 52: 22 that identifies an 80 gigabyte hard drive?
18 14: 52: 27 A. I do.
19 14: 52: 27 Q. So that makes it appear as if you have purchased
20 14: 52: 31 an 80 gigabyte hard drive at some time?
21 14: 52: 38 A. I agree with that.
22 14: 52: 47 Q. Among the personal files that you didn't want
23 14: 52: 52 anyone else to access premigration, we've already talked
24 14: 53: 04 about outlaw motorcycle gang-related materials, and I'm
25 14: 53: 11 not interested in family photographs or people's
Page 155
1 14: 53: 15 birthdays or things like that, were there other
2 14: 53: 25 materials on that hard drive that related to criminal
3 14: 53: 32 investigations or criminal activities of any people,
4 14: 53: 38 whether they were motorcycle gang people or not?
5 14: 53: 41 MS. BESCHEN: Obj ect i on; mi schar act er i zes
6 14: 53: 43 t est i mony and i s vague.
7 14: 53: 48 You can st i l l answer .
8 14: 53: 50 A. Yes.
9 14: 53: 54 Q. Were they -- these other people, we've already
10 14: 53: 57 talked about motorcycle gangs, so I don't want to go
11 14: 54: 00 over that again, but were these other people whose
12 14: 54: 03 information was contained on the hard drive premigration
13 14: 54: 10 Whatcom County criminals?
14 14: 54: 19 A. I don't know that I would characterize it that
15 14: 54: 22 way, but in the way I think you mean it, yes.
16 14: 54: 27 Q. Some of them were...?
17 14: 54: 32 A. People of interest.
18 14: 54: 33 Q. In Whatcom County?
19 14: 54: 35 A. Yes.
20 14: 54: 39 Q. Not necessarily residents of Whatcom County, but
21 14: 54: 42 people who might commit crimes passing through?
22 14: 54: 45 A. That and maybe people who should be on the radar
23 14: 54: 51 but for whatever reason never were.
24 14: 54: 59 Q. Did you ever bring those people to the attention
25 14: 55: 04 of your supervisors or the administration of the
Page 156
1 14: 55: 07 sheriff's office so they could be on the radar?
2 14: 55: 13 A. When appropriate.
3 14: 55: 17 Q. When was it appropriate, in your thinking?
4 14: 55: 19 A. Well, when there is a specific inquiry about a
5 14: 55: 28 certain individual or information is sought related to
6 14: 55: 38 any specific crimes.
7 14: 55: 43 Q. So in order for you to divulge that information
8 14: 55: 47 to other law enforcement authorities, they would need to
9 14: 55: 51 ask you specifically for information on a given
10 14: 55: 54 individual; is that right?
11 14: 55: 58 A. I wouldn't phrase it that way. I mean, I would
12 14: 56: 01 have -- I would have to know of the need. I would have
13 14: 56: 07 to -- I mean, I wouldn't want to walk around all day
14 14: 56: 15 just spilling my guts about everything that I know, so
15 14: 56: 18 you tend to manage information based on what you're
16 14: 56: 23 aware of as far as who needs to know or what they're
17 14: 56: 26 looking for.
18 14: 56: 28 So if I'm aware, say for example Spencer Kope, if
19 14: 56: 32 I know Spencer Kope is tracking a series of crimes and I
20 14: 56: 36 happen to have a tidbit of information that fits, I'll
21 14: 56: 39 tell him. I'll pass it to him.
22 14: 56: 41 Q. Who is Spencer Kope?
23 14: 56: 44 A. He's the crime analyst.
24 14: 56: 45 Q. For what agency?
25 14: 56: 47 A. For the sheriff's office.
Page 157
1 14: 56: 47 THE REPORTER: What was t he l ast name?
2 14: 56: 52 THE WI TNESS: Kope, K- O- P- E.
3 14: 56: 57 Q. And who determined whether there was a need to
4 14: 57: 03 know the information that you had on your computer
5 14: 57: 07 premigration?
6 14: 57: 11 A. I guess largely me. In the absence of something
7 14: 57: 23 to the contrary, I guess it had to be me.
8 14: 57: 26 Q. Did anyone ever tell you that their sheriff's
9 14: 57: 30 office issued Toughbook computer had a hard drive in it
10 14: 57: 35 that was smaller than 80 gigabytes?
11 14: 57: 42 A. Did anybody from the sheriff's office ever tell
12 14: 57: 45 me? No.
13 14: 57: 46 Q. Did you hear that from any source?
14 14: 57: 53 A. I did do some research on my own and found that.
15 14: 57: 56 Q. So you looked at some literature on those
16 14: 58: 00 computers?
17 14: 58: 03 A. I -- wherever the point of contention between the
18 14: 58: 10 40 versus 80 heated up. It was -- it was just prior to
19 14: 58: 18 my termination that that question was kind of raging and
20 14: 58: 23 I started digging into it to see what I kind find out
21 14: 58: 27 because I was pretty sure it was 40.
22 14: 58: 29 Q. Did you find that a 80 gigabyte hard drive was
23 14: 58: 33 standard for that computer?
24 14: 58: 35 A. I found that 80 was amongst the options for that
25 14: 58: 39 computer.
Page 158
1 14: 58: 40 Q. And were you specific in looking for the model
2 14: 58: 49 number of the type of Toughbook computer that had been
3 14: 58: 54 purchased by the County for the sheriff's office?
4 14: 59: 01 A. I believe so.
5 14: 59: 02 Q. And I believe that was called a CF-29?
6 14: 59: 06 A. Correct.
7 14: 59: 12 Q. Did you look -- have you ever looked at the
8 14: 59: 18 purchase data for what the County ordered for those
9 14: 59: 22 CF-29 computers?
10 14: 59: 23 A. Since the termination, yes, I have.
11 14: 59: 27 Q. And you saw that it was to include an 80 gigabyte
12 14: 59: 31 hard drive?
13 14: 59: 32 A. What I saw was an I-520 screen print that's
14 14: 59: 37 manually typed in.
15 14: 59: 38 Q. What does that mean?
16 14: 59: 39 A. That means somebody sat at a terminal and typed
17 14: 59: 42 in what the screen says. So I don't know whether
18 14: 59: 45 there's a record to back that up or not. All I know is
19 14: 59: 49 what I saw.
20 14: 59: 55 Q. I guess you've lost me in your computerese there.
21 14: 59: 59 You mean somebody looked at the screen of each computer
22 15: 00: 04 and from the system properties site saw that it
23 15: 00: 11 included --
24 15: 00: 11 A. No.
25 15: 00: 11 Q. -- it had an 80 gigabyte hard drive?
Page 159
1 15: 00: 14 A. No. The only -- the only piece of the
2 15: 00: 17 information I saw related to what the computers were
3 15: 00: 19 originally equipped with was a screen print from the
4 15: 00: 23 County's central data system which is called I-520,
5 15: 00: 29 previously it was called the AS 400, and it was
6 15: 00: 35 literally just a screen print that listed, I don't know,
7 15: 00: 42 say a dozen, maybe dozen and a half different computers
8 15: 00: 47 and basic information about each computer. In other
9 15: 00: 53 words, it's information from a clerk, not from a label.
10 15: 00: 53 THE REPORTER: Not a l abel ?
11 15: 00: 58 THE WI TNESS: Not f r oma l abel , yes.
13 15: 01: 07 A. I think that's it right there. That looks like
14 15: 01: 10 it right there.
15 15: 01: 16 Q. Showing you what's been marked as Exhibit 12,
16 15: 01: 21 Mr. Murphy, is that the information you reviewed about
17 15: 01: 27 how the Toughbook computers purchased by the County for
18 15: 01: 34 the sheriff's office were configured?
19 15: 01: 37 A. This is what I remember seeing. I believe it was
20 15: 01: 43 included with the -- with Cooley's investigative file.
21 15: 01: 48 Q. Do you see anything in these materials that is
22 15: 01: 51 inconsistent with the Toughbook computers having 80
23 15: 02: 00 gigabyte hard drives in them?
25 15: 02: 15 I think I would phrase that a different way,
Page 160
1 15: 02: 18 but...
2 15: 02: 19 Q. I would like you to answer my question.
3 15: 02: 23 A. Well, I'm not sure I understand your question.
4 15: 02: 26 Q. Do you see anything in these documents that is
5 15: 02: 29 inconsistent with the Toughbook computers having 80
6 15: 02: 38 gigabyte hard drives?
7 15: 02: 39 A. I don't see anything that shows manufacturer's
8 15: 02: 45 information showing that that has an 80 gigabyte hard
9 15: 02: 51 drive.
10 15: 02: 51 Q. What I'm asking you is these documents, Exhibit
11 15: 02: 53 12, do they have anything that is inconsistent with
12 15: 02: 58 those Toughbook computers having 80 gigabyte hard
13 15: 03: 02 drives?
14 15: 03: 02 MS. BESCHEN: Can he have a mi nut e t o l ook?
16 15: 03: 06 MS. BESCHEN: Have you l ooked t hr ough t he
17 15: 03: 07 document al r eady?
18 15: 03: 07 THE WI TNESS: Let me - - now, l et me l ook
19 15: 03: 10 t hr ough i t agai n because I t hi nk I ' mmi ssi ng what he' s
20 15: 03: 12 af t er .
21 15: 03: 13 ( Wi t ness r evi ews document . )
22 15: 04: 34 Okay. I see what ' s i n her e. Back t o t he
23 15: 04: 38 quest i on. I t st i l l sounds l i ke a doubl e negat i ve t o me,
24 15: 04: 41 whi ch i s conf usi ng.
25 15: 04: 42 Q. It isn't a double negative. Is there anything in
Page 161
1 15: 04: 47 these documents that is inconsistent with the belief
2 15: 04: 51 that the Toughbook computers had 80 gigabyte hard drives
3 15: 04: 58 in them?
4 15: 04: 59 A. I guess no, but I don't really see the point of
5 15: 05: 07 that, but it's your question. So no.
6 15: 05: 10 Q. If you were to -- or when you cloned the hard
7 15: 05: 22 drive from the Dell computer that you had as a property
8 15: 05: 30 investigator, did you follow the identical process that
9 15: 05: 37 would be necessary to clone a hard drive from a
10 15: 05: 42 Toughbook computer?
11 15: 05: 46 A. I don't have any way of knowing that.
12 15: 05: 48 Q. Did the Dell computer have a hard drive enclosed
13 15: 05: 53 in a protective case that required the removal of screws
14 15: 05: 57 and unclipping it and taking off tape and cushions in
15 15: 06: 04 order to duplicate or clone that hard drive?
16 15: 06: 07 A. Well, cloning and replacing are not the same
17 15: 06: 11 thing.
18 15: 06: 11 Q. I'm talking about cloning.
19 15: 06: 13 A. Yeah, but you're describing replacing.
20 15: 06: 16 Q. I'm talking about the process of making a
21 15: 06: 19 duplicate.
22 15: 06: 23 A. I -- I don't have any specific recollection of
23 15: 06: 26 what it is that I cloned. I thought it was the MDT, but
24 15: 06: 32 I really think it was that Dell Latitude now.
25 15: 06: 39 Q. Did you have to remove the hard drive from a
Page 162
1 15: 06: 43 protective case like the kind that was used in the
2 15: 06: 47 Toughbook computer in order to clone the Dell hard
3 15: 06: 52 drive?
4 15: 06: 52 A. Did I have to remove the computer from a
5 15: 06: 55 protective case in the Dell Latitude? No.
6 15: 07: 06 Q. So the process of cloning the hard drive from a
7 15: 07: 15 Toughbook computer would be much more complicated than
8 15: 07: 18 it would be for duplicating the Dell hard drive; is that
9 15: 07: 26 right?
10 15: 07: 26 A. I don't think so. I'm -- I'm hearing you
11 15: 07: 32 describe replacing, but you're asking about cloning and
12 15: 07: 36 it's very confusing to me.
13 15: 07: 37 Q. I'm talking about the process where you plug a
14 15: 07: 40 drive into a device that then duplicates that drive on
15 15: 07: 47 another drive, same electronic process.
16 15: 07: 53 MS. BESCHEN: And I obj ect . You' r e assumi ng
17 15: 07: 55 f act s not i n evi dence t o get t o t hat quest i on.
18 15: 07: 57 You can st i l l answer .
19 15: 07: 59 Q. Go ahead. Do you understand the question?
20 15: 08: 03 A. I understand what I think you're asking.
21 15: 08: 07 The process would be the same, which whatever
22 15: 08: 10 computer was involved.
23 15: 08: 11 Q. You're leaving out the process of removing the
24 15: 08: 15 hard drive from the case that the Toughbook computer's
25 15: 08: 21 hard drive comes in, aren't you?
Page 163
1 15: 08: 22 A. Well, it's a different style, so yeah.
2 15: 08: 26 Q. So that whole process of taking the box out of
3 15: 08: 32 the Toughbook, unscrewing that protective case, removing
4 15: 08: 38 the hard drive from that protective case, all of that
5 15: 08: 42 process is more complicated than taking the hard drive
6 15: 08: 51 out of the Dell computer and then electronically
7 15: 08: 54 duplicating it, isn't it, that whole process?
8 15: 08: 58 A. I --
9 15: 09: 00 MS. BESCHEN: Obj ect i on; vague and
10 15: 09: 01 mi schar act er i zes hi s t est i mony.
11 15: 09: 04 THE WI TNESS: Yeah.
12 15: 09: 05 A. I don't really even remember how difficult it was
13 15: 09: 09 on the Dell.
14 15: 09: 11 Q. You actually posted a video --
15 15: 09: 14 A. I did.
16 15: 09: 14 Q. -- on your Facebook showing the process of --
17 15: 09: 16 A. I did.
18 15: 09: 17 Q. -- duplicating, removing and duplicating a
19 15: 09: 21 Toughbook computer hard drive, didn't you?
20 15: 09: 24 A. I did.
21 15: 09: 25 Q. And you did that to demonstrate what you had done
22 15: 09: 28 in duplicating the Toughbook hard drive that you
23 15: 09: 33 performed, isn't that correct?
24 15: 09: 35 A. I think the bigger point was to show how easy
25 15: 09: 39 that entire drive unsnaps from a computer. Flick a
Page 164
1 15: 09: 45 switch and the whole thing comes out of the computer.
2 15: 09: 47 It takes two seconds to pull it out.
3 15: 09: 49 Q. And then the other ten minutes of that YouTube
4 15: 09: 54 video is involved in unscrewing the case, unpeeling the
5 15: 09: 59 tape, removing the foam and all of that, and that's what
6 15: 10: 02 the video depicted was that whole process.
7 15: 10: 06 A. It did.
8 15: 10: 06 Q. And so what I'm trying to ask you, and you were
9 15: 10: 09 evading because you don't want to answer the question,
10 15: 10: 12 is that whole process more complicated than taking the
11 15: 10: 18 hard drive out of a Dell computer and duplicating it?
12 15: 10: 20 A. I don't recall.
13 15: 10: 23 Q. You performed that duplication process on both
14 15: 10: 27 kinds of hard drives, didn't you?
16 15: 10: 30 vague as t o what you mean by " dupl i cat i ng. "
17 15: 10: 33 But you can answer t o what - -
18 15: 10: 36 A. I'm referring to the whole process. It's not
19 15: 10: 37 vague at all. I believe that I did clone the detective
20 15: 10: 42 computer drive, and I have no recollection of it
21 15: 10: 45 whatsoever. You're inferring that I cloned the MDT
22 15: 10: 51 drive, which I don't believe I did, and I have no
23 15: 10: 54 recollection of that either. So how do I answer your
24 15: 10: 57 question?
25 15: 10: 58 Q. I'm not inferring. I'm reading from your words
Page 165
1 15: 11: 02 in the interview with Cooley. You said several times in
2 15: 11: 07 several different ways that you duplicated that hard
3 15: 11: 10 drive, didn't you?
4 15: 11: 10 A. And in several different explanations that you've
5 15: 11: 13 asked me today, I have explained to you that I believe I
6 15: 11: 18 was mistaken and I was remembering the detective laptop,
7 15: 11: 21 not the MDT.
8 15: 11: 22 Q. You've changed your story.
9 15: 11: 24 A. That's one way to take it, I suppose.
10 15: 11: 27 Q. Why did you refuse to surrender your duty sidearm
11 15: 11: 31 when you were put on administrative leave?
12 15: 11: 33 A. Because it's mine.
13 15: 11: 36 Q. Despite the fact that you were shown receipts,
14 15: 11: 39 proving that the County had purchased that from you?
16 15: 11: 45 i n evi dence.
17 15: 11: 45 A. I was there the day I bought the gun. The gun
18 15: 11: 48 belongs to me.
19 15: 11: 49 Q. When you were asked to surrender the firearm,
20 15: 11: 53 weren't you shown the receipt whereby you were paid for
21 15: 11: 57 that gun by the County?
22 15: 12: 00 A. I was shown a receipt for an equipment allowance.
23 15: 12: 04 I did not relinquish ownership rights of my gun.
24 15: 12: 11 Q. Ultimately you did surrender the firearm. What
25 15: 12: 17 was necessary to convince you that the County owned that
Page 166
1 15: 12: 20 gun and you did not?
2 15: 12: 21 A. The County has never convinced me that they own
3 15: 12: 24 that gun.
4 15: 12: 25 Q. Why did you surrender it then?
5 15: 12: 27 A. Because I was ordered to.
6 15: 12: 32 Q. Were you aware that in 2003 the Deputy Sheriff's
7 15: 12: 42 Guild specifically negotiated the purchase of deputies'
8 15: 12: 46 firearms and agreed that the County would own those
9 15: 12: 49 firearms after that purchase?
10 15: 12: 51 A. I don't agree that's what the agreement was, but
11 15: 12: 55 I do vaguely recall there being a equipment -- an
12 15: 13: 03 equipment allowance is something different, but an
13 15: 13: 06 equipment stipend to help compensate or offset the cost
14 15: 13: 15 of law enforcement gear.
16 15: 13: 27 Q. Showing you what's been marked as Exhibit No. 13,
17 15: 13: 43 do you recognize this as a copy of a letter of
18 15: 13: 46 understanding between the County and the Deputy
19 15: 13: 50 Sheriff's Guild concerning payment for various things,
20 15: 13: 52 including firearms, and including documents showing that
21 15: 14: 02 you were paid for your duty firearm by the County?
22 15: 14: 09 MS. BESCHEN: You can t ake your t i me and
23 15: 14: 11 l ook t hr ough i t .
24 15: 14: 25 A. I'm sorry, what was the question again, do I see
25 15: 14: 28 the documents?
Page 167
1 15: 14: 31 Q. Do you recognize this as a copy of a letter of
2 15: 14: 34 understanding that I referred to --
3 15: 14: 36 A. Yes.
4 15: 14: 37 Q. -- and the receipt documents whereby the County
5 15: 14: 41 paid for your firearm, among other pieces of equipment?
6 15: 14: 49 A. Yes.
7 15: 14: 50 Q. If you go down to the numbered Paragraph 2 on the
8 15: 14: 56 first page of Exhibit 13, and the last sentence, let me
9 15: 15: 02 read that and then I'll ask you a question. Quote, By
10 15: 15: 06 accepting this payment, deputies are acknowledging that
11 15: 15: 09 this equipment becomes the property of the department
12 15: 15: 13 and is to be returned to the department upon the
13 15: 15: 17 employee's separation, end of quote. Have I read that
14 15: 15: 20 correctly?
15 15: 15: 20 A. You did.
16 15: 15: 21 Q. What did you misunderstand about that?
18 15: 15: 26 i n evi dence. You' r e assumi ng t hat - - wel l , have you
19 15: 15: 31 asked i f he has seen i t bef or e?
20 15: 15: 32 A. I didn't agree to that.
21 15: 15: 36 Q. But you accepted the payment?
22 15: 15: 38 A. Sure. As I do every year.
23 15: 15: 41 Q. So. You essentially were taking the County's
24 15: 15: 45 money while insisting that you were going to keep your
25 15: 15: 48 firearm?
Page 168
1 15: 15: 48 A. The firearm remained mine the whole time.
2 15: 15: 52 Q. Well, not by this contract.
3 15: 15: 54 A. Well, then you should check with the people who
4 15: 15: 57 signed it.
5 15: 15: 57 MS. BESCHEN: To cl ar i f y f or t he r ecor d,
6 15: 15: 59 he' s not a named per son on t he cont r act .
7 15: 16: 02 Q. Were you a member of the Deputy Sheriff's Guild?
8 15: 16: 05 A. I was.
9 15: 16: 07 Q. Doesn't this apply to deputy -- members of the
10 15: 16: 11 Deputy Sheriff's Guild?
11 15: 16: 12 A. To the degree that the signatories made that
12 15: 16: 17 agreement, I suppose so, but I didn't agree to surrender
13 15: 16: 21 ownership of my gun.
14 15: 16: 22 Q. Did you tell the administration at the Whatcom
15 15: 16: 25 County Sheriff's Office that you were not agreeing to
16 15: 16: 27 surrender your gun pursuant to this agreement?
17 15: 16: 30 A. They never asked me.
18 15: 16: 31 Q. Did you tell them yourself, did you go in and
19 15: 16: 34 say, Hey I don't want to take this money because I want
20 15: 16: 37 to own this gun myself?
21 15: 16: 39 A. I was never asked.
22 15: 16: 40 Q. Did you go in there and tell them that?
23 15: 16: 41 A. I showed up every day for work armed and no one
24 15: 16: 45 asked.
25 15: 16: 45 Q. But you didn't tell them that?
Page 169
1 15: 16: 47 A. I assumed they could have figured that out on
2 15: 16: 49 their own.
3 15: 16: 50 Q. And you took the money?
4 15: 16: 51 A. Sure.
5 15: 16: 51 Q. So you were stealing money from the County for
6 15: 16: 55 something you never intended to return --
8 15: 16: 58 t est i mony.
9 15: 16: 56 Q. -- weren't you?
10 15: 16: 58 A. No, I was not. I took my annual equipment
11 15: 17: 02 allowance like I did every year.
12 15: 17: 03 Q. Did some of the deputies choose not to accept the
13 15: 17: 07 money and retain ownership of their guns?
14 15: 17: 10 A. Couldn't tell you.
15 15: 17: 12 Q. Did you receive a letter from Sheriff Elfo in
16 15: 18: 48 April of 2011 telling you that your allegations on
17 15: 19: 02 social media of corruption in the sheriff's office
18 15: 19: 07 required you to report to a law enforcement agency what
19 15: 19: 14 you knew about corruption?
20 15: 19: 19 A. Yeah, I think I remember that.
21 15: 19: 21 Q. And it wasn't that correct, in the sense that if
22 15: 19: 27 you did have evidence of corruption, you had a duty as a
23 15: 19: 31 law enforcement officer to report that?
24 15: 19: 35 A. Yes.
25 15: 19: 36 Q. Did you ever make a report of corruption or facts
Page 170
1 15: 19: 43 of corruption to any law enforcement agency?
2 15: 19: 47 A. I did.
3 15: 19: 47 Q. When do you that?
4 15: 19: 49 A. Which time.
5 15: 19: 52 Q. The first time?
6 15: 19: 53 A. Steve Cooley, inappropriate conduct with a young
7 15: 19: 58 female, engaging in criminal conduct, taking advantage
8 15: 20: 03 of a young girl. Yes, I did report that.
9 15: 20: 06 Q. The second time?
10 15: 20: 07 A. Sheriff Elfo himself was personally advised as
11 15: 20: 12 well as FBI. As well as the county prosecutor.
12 15: 20: 16 Q. Of what?
13 15: 20: 17 A. Of stuff that was going on with the EHM case and
14 15: 20: 21 the corruption in a broad term, what was going on
15 15: 20: 28 through the county courts.
16 15: 20: 32 Q. Was there a third time?
17 15: 20: 34 A. Well, I had tried several times to advance
18 15: 20: 41 through the administration through the proper channels
19 15: 20: 43 that I felt like I was being targeted for retaliation,
20 15: 20: 47 and no one cared any time previous to that, so I don't
21 15: 20: 51 know why I would have had any basis to believe anybody
22 15: 20: 53 was going to care on April of 2011.
23 15: 20: 56 Q. Was there any other time, other than what you've
24 15: 20: 59 already reported when you reported corruption?
25 15: 21: 05 A. In the second internal investigation, I tried to
Page 171
1 15: 21: 09 tell people that Sergeant Beth Larson totally fabricated
2 15: 21: 13 her memorandum and her assessment of what took place in
3 15: 21: 17 that domestic violence case, and nobody was interested
4 15: 21: 21 then either.
5 15: 21: 24 Q. Was there any other time that you reported
7 15: 21: 30 A. I reported to Jack Laos, the county executive,
8 15: 21: 44 when it was crystal clear that everything I had to say
9 15: 21: 49 was falling on deaf ears internally. I made a
10 15: 21: 55 last-ditch effort to try to engage the help of the newly
11 15: 22: 00 elected county executive, Jack Laos, and I sent him a
12 15: 22: 07 memorandum based on a whistleblower policy that exists
13 15: 22: 11 in Whatcom County, and that was also denied, that was
14 15: 22: 16 also ignored.
15 15: 22: 20 Q. Was there any other occasion that you reported
17 15: 22: 24 A. I don't know that seems like a pretty stacked
18 15: 22: 42 list to me, but no, I can't think of any off the top.
19 15: 22: 45 Q. With the exception of the Steve Cooley, Kristen
20 15: 22: 56 Cavender matter, all of the examples you have given have
21 15: 23: 05 related to your treatment in the sheriff's office, is
22 15: 23: 09 that a correct characterization?
24 15: 23: 16 hi s t est i mony.
25 15: 23: 18 A. I think it's certainly a factor, minimally it's a
Page 172
1 15: 23: 25 factor.
2 15: 23: 33 Q. The Cooley matter involved off duty conduct, did
3 15: 23: 38 it not?
4 15: 23: 40 A. I wasn't present. As far as I know, yes.
6 15: 23: 49 Q. Showing you what's been marked Exhibit 14, is
7 15: 24: 04 that the letter with attachments that you received from
8 15: 24: 10 Sheriff Elfo on April 4 -- or about April 4, 2011?
10 15: 24: 20 That looks right. That looks like what I got.
11 15: 24: 27 Q. Did you ever report anything that you have called
12 15: 24: 51 corruption in response to my question to the state
13 15: 24: 55 attorney general?
14 15: 25: 04 A. I'm not sure.
15 15: 25: 07 Q. Did you ever report such matters to the state
16 15: 25: 10 auditor?
17 15: 25: 15 A. I think so.
18 15: 25: 16 Q. And what did you report to the state auditor?
19 15: 25: 18 A. I believe it was going to be the whistleblower
20 15: 25: 24 complaint from roughly June of 2013 -- 2012.
21 15: 25: 34 Q. Did you do that reporting?
22 15: 25: 36 A. I did.
23 15: 25: 37 Q. Did you receive response from the state auditor?
24 15: 25: 40 A. Never did. No, correction. I believe I did get
25 15: 25: 45 a response.
Page 173
1 15: 25: 45 Q. Do you have that response document?
2 15: 25: 46 A. I do.
3 15: 25: 49 Q. I want you to retain that because we'll request
4 15: 25: 52 it.
5 15: 25: 52 A. Okay.
6 15: 25: 53 Q. What did the state auditor say?
7 15: 25: 54 A. I'll have to paraphrase this. I'll have to
8 15: 25: 59 paraphrase what I recall of it. But it was essentially
9 15: 26: 02 that the County erred in applying the incorrect statute
10 15: 26: 12 for the whistleblower protections and that the -- the
11 15: 26: 17 correct statute gave no time frame limitations on
12 15: 26: 21 reporting.
13 15: 26: 28 Q. Did the auditor do anything with respect to your
14 15: 26: 34 complaint itself?
15 15: 26: 40 A. Not that I recall.
16 15: 26: 42 Q. Did you ever report what you have called
17 15: 26: 45 corruption to the FBI?
18 15: 26: 46 A. Independently of the -- independently of the
19 15: 26: 57 agent that I was working with, I'm not sure. I don't
20 15: 27: 06 think so.
21 15: 27: 07 Q. Did you know that that FBI agent asked that you
22 15: 27: 10 be taken off that case?
23 15: 27: 12 A. Nope, I did not.
24 15: 27: 14 Q. Did you ever report what you've called corruption
25 15: 27: 17 to the U.S. attorney?
Page 174
2 15: 27: 24 Q. To the Washington State Patrol?
3 15: 27: 27 A. Aside from casual conversations, no, I don't
4 15: 27: 34 think so.
5 15: 27: 35 Q. Did you ever report what you've called corruption
6 15: 27: 38 to any police department?
7 15: 27: 39 A. I think my circumstances were pretty well known.
8 15: 27: 44 Q. No, I'm asking whether you reported to any police
9 15: 27: 48 department. I'm excluding the sheriff's office from
10 15: 27: 51 that, police department, like a city police department,
11 15: 27: 54 such as Bellingham, did you ever report what you've
12 15: 27: 56 called corruption to them?
13 15: 27: 58 A. Did I walk into the Bellingham Police Department
14 15: 28: 00 and report --
15 15: 28: 00 Q. No, I'm not limiting it to walking in. Give me
16 15: 28: 04 the broad answer to my broad question.
17 15: 28: 06 A. Did I -- no. In the way that I think you're
18 15: 28: 10 asking it, no, I did not. But, again --
19 15: 28: 16 Q. You know that false reporting is a crime, don't
20 15: 28: 18 you?
21 15: 28: 19 A. I do.
22 15: 28: 19 Q. And official misconduct is a crime as well?
23 15: 28: 24 A. I do.
24 15: 28: 25 Q. Have you reported what you consider to be a
25 15: 28: 30 violation of the statute on official misconduct to any
Page 175
1 15: 28: 35 police agency?
2 15: 28: 39 A. In general?
3 15: 28: 41 Q. No, with respect to the sheriff's office or
4 15: 28: 46 Whatcom County.
5 15: 28: 49 A. I did reach out to the U.S. Marshals Service in
6 15: 28: 54 one aspect in particular.
7 15: 28: 55 Q. And what was that?
8 15: 28: 57 A. It was related to the Mandy Stavik case.
9 15: 29: 00 Q. Mandy Stavik case is an unsolved homicide?
10 15: 29: 03 A. Yes.
11 15: 29: 04 Q. Where was there corruption in the sheriff's
12 15: 29: 07 office or Whatcom County relative to that?
13 15: 29: 09 A. I believe that investigation is being buried.
14 15: 29: 14 Q. Why do you believe that?
15 15: 29: 15 A. Because information is being suppressed.
16 15: 29: 21 Q. How have you attempted to get information about
17 15: 29: 24 that?
18 15: 29: 24 A. I by happenstance probably is a good way to
19 15: 29: 32 describe it, happened to develop some contacts with
20 15: 29: 36 people who seem to know a lot about what took place.
21 15: 29: 39 Q. What's the status of the investigation?
22 15: 29: 42 A. That, I don't know.
23 15: 29: 43 Q. As far as you know, it's open?
24 15: 29: 45 A. As far as I know, it's open, yes.
25 15: 29: 48 Q. How is it -- how is it corruption to be unable to
Page 176
1 15: 29: 55 solve a homicide?
2 15: 29: 57 A. That's not corruption at all. Overlooking known
3 15: 30: 01 information that no one will look into is corruption.
4 15: 30: 04 Q. What information is being overlooked?
5 15: 30: 06 A. There's suspect information that exists that
6 15: 30: 10 people will not go talk to this person.
7 15: 30: 12 Q. How do you know that isn't known by the
8 15: 30: 15 investigative agency?
9 15: 30: 16 A. I don't.
10 15: 30: 19 Q. So you don't know whether they have talked to the
11 15: 30: 21 suspect?
12 15: 30: 22 A. In a roundabout way I do.
13 15: 30: 25 Q. What's that round about way?
14 15: 30: 27 A. In my own checking of the County's I-520 system,
15 15: 30: 31 there were three names in particular that I looked up
16 15: 30: 34 and I verified that those three people are not listed as
17 15: 30: 38 contacts in any ongoing police report and specifically
18 15: 30: 42 that Mandy Stavik investigation. They've never been
19 15: 30: 46 talked to.
20 15: 30: 47 Q. When have you -- when did you examine that I-520
22 15: 30: 51 A. That was -- obviously that was before my
23 15: 30: 58 termination, so that would have been while I would have
24 15: 31: 00 still had a computer, so it would have had to have been
25 15: 31: 04 before February of 2012, but within a few months of not
Page 177
1 15: 31: 08 having computer access anymore.
2 15: 31: 13 Q. What did you do with that information?
3 15: 31: 16 A. I attempted to pass it on to the lead detective
4 15: 31: 19 twice.
5 15: 31: 21 Q. Who is that?
6 15: 31: 22 A. It was Kevin Bowey. I don't know who it is now.
7 15: 31: 26 I attempted to pass that information along to a couple
8 15: 31: 28 of other people I know that had interest in that case
9 15: 31: 31 and nobody was listening.
10 15: 31: 33 Q. What -- in what form did you pass on the
12 15: 31: 37 A. It started off as verbal, verbal discussion, but
13 15: 31: 42 Bowey made it perfectly clear he wasn't interested.
14 15: 31: 44 Q. How did he do that?
15 15: 31: 46 A. He didn't follow up with me, number one. Number
16 15: 31: 50 two, he wasn't interested in hearing what I had to tell
17 15: 31: 53 him. He didn't want to know.
18 15: 31: 54 Q. Did you ever put that information in writing?
19 15: 32: 00 A. With the circumstances that I was in at the time,
20 15: 32: 02 nobody was going to listen to me.
21 15: 32: 04 Q. Did you ever put that information into writing?
22 15: 32: 07 A. I did.
23 15: 32: 08 Q. And did you turn it into someone?
24 15: 32: 13 A. I didn't put it in writing within the sheriff's
25 15: 32: 16 office directly, but it was inferred if not spelled out
Page 178
1 15: 32: 21 indirectly on the Mandy Stavik Facebook page, which
2 15: 32: 25 actually is part of the problem that I'm in here.
3 15: 32: 29 Q. So as far as you know, there's no record in the
4 15: 32: 33 sheriff's office of the information you developed about
5 15: 32: 35 possible suspects in that case?
6 15: 32: 38 A. Sheriff Elfo personally knows about it. I know
7 15: 32: 42 for a fact he knows.
8 15: 32: 43 Q. Is that from reading a Facebook page?
9 15: 32: 45 A. It's from communications with Tara Adrian Stavik,
10 15: 32: 45 I know that.
11 15: 32: 45 THE REPORTER: " I t ' s f r omcommuni cat i ons
12 15: 32: 45 wi t h" . . . ?
13 15: 32: 54 THE WI TNESS: Tar a Adr i an St avi k, who i s
14 15: 32: 54 r el at ed t o t he - - she' s r el at ed t o t he St avi k f ami l y.
15 15: 32: 58 She' s mar r i ed t o t he St avi k f ami l y.
16 15: 33: 00 Q. Now, the information, is it conclusive evidence
17 15: 33: 04 that these people committed those crimes -- or that
18 15: 33: 07 crime?
19 15: 33: 07 A. No, it's not. It is not, and I don't mean to
20 15: 33: 10 imply that it is.
21 15: 33: 11 Q. You realize that sometimes law enforcement
22 15: 33: 15 officers get some information about a suspect, but they
23 15: 33: 19 don't interview them until they have more because they
24 15: 33: 22 want to go to that suspect with information that can
25 15: 33: 26 trip them up on, isn't that correct?
Page 179
1 15: 33: 29 A. I do understand that.
2 15: 33: 30 Q. So they may be waiting to interview that
3 15: 33: 32 person --
4 15: 33: 32 A. Could be.
5 15: 33: 33 Q. -- when they have more information, and that
6 15: 33: 35 wouldn't be corruption, would it?
7 15: 33: 37 A. The discussions that I had, the information that
8 15: 33: 45 I had was received with surprise, they didn't know, they
9 15: 33: 50 hadn't heard it before.
10 15: 33: 53 Q. So how was that surprise expressed?
11 15: 33: 59 A. There was a name in particular that was brought
12 15: 34: 01 up, and that person -- I got several different
13 15: 34: 12 responses. One response from Bowey, it was a known, and
14 15: 34: 18 I'm not talking to him. I'm not following that lead.
15 15: 34: 22 Q. Did he say why?
16 15: 34: 24 A. No, he didn't.
17 15: 34: 25 Q. Who is that person, the suspect?
18 15: 34: 31 A. In a general sense?
19 15: 34: 34 Q. No, I want the specific name of the individual.
20 15: 34: 38 A. Am I in any liability issue here if I say that
21 15: 34: 42 name? Am I allowed to ask that?
22 15: 34: 44 Q. You're in a deposition, you're a witness in a
23 15: 34: 46 deposition. You have immunity for what you say in a
24 15: 34: 49 deposition, other than in connection with this lawsuit.
25 15: 34: 52 A. Okay. Neal Rothenbueller.
Page 180
1 15: 34: 52 THE REPORTER: Who?
2 15: 34: 58 THE WI TNESS: Neal Rot henbuel l er .
3 15: 34: 58 Q. Spell that last name.
4 15: 35: 02 A. R-O-T-H-E-N-B-U-E-L-L-E-R, I think.
5 15: 35: 11 Q. Is there anyone else who is suspect in that crime
6 15: 35: 15 that you have attempted to pass onto investigators?
7 15: 35: 19 A. That name came about as an inference based on
8 15: 35: 27 firsthand observations, which I found to be rather
9 15: 35: 32 credible. There was another name that was floated as a
10 15: 35: 36 possibility.
11 15: 35: 39 Q. What's that name?
12 15: 35: 40 A. Right off the top, I'm drawing a blank on it.
13 15: 35: 44 But there was -- there was a local person that also
14 15: 35: 46 matched the description of somebody that had been seen
15 15: 35: 49 arguing with Mandy Stavik in her car just hour -- an
16 15: 35: 54 hour or two before she disappeared. Essentially in a
17 15: 35: 57 domestic violence situation.
18 15: 35: 59 Q. And you don't remember the name of that person?
19 15: 36: 01 A. Right off the top, I don't. It's somebody that
20 15: 36: 04 lives in Acme is all I know. I'm sure I have note of it
21 15: 36: 08 somewhere, I just have to go read through what I have,
22 15: 36: 11 find the name again.
23 15: 36: 13 Q. Do you have any evidence that Sheriff Elfo has
24 15: 36: 18 committed a crime of any kind?
25 15: 36: 23 A. As in a codified crime? An RCW?
Page 181
1 15: 36: 29 Q. I don't understand why you're evading a simple
2 15: 36: 32 question like that.
3 15: 36: 33 A. I don't think it's evasion at all to ask
4 15: 36: 34 qualifying or clarifying questions.
5 15: 36: 34 Q. Any crime you can think of, any crime that is
6 15: 36: 38 prosecutable.
7 15: 36: 39 A. To me that's an RCW crime. I just want to make
8 15: 36: 42 sure.
9 15: 36: 42 Q. Go ahead and answer the question then.
10 15: 36: 44 A. Right off the top, I'm not. However -- well,
11 15: 36: 52 let's just say no at present.
12 15: 36: 56 Q. Do you consider Steve Harris to be a reasonable,
13 15: 37: 07 perceptive and credible person?
14 15: 37: 09 A. I would say so.
15 15: 37: 10 Q. Would you characterize yourself as a strong
16 15: 37: 18 supporter of Steve Harris in the last election?
17 15: 37: 22 A. I would.
18 15: 37: 31 Q. Why are you posting information about Sheriff
19 15: 37: 39 Elfo's family on Ancestry.com?
20 15: 37: 48 A. Why am I posting about Sheriff Elfo's family?
22 15: 37: 56 i n evi dence.
23 15: 37: 59 A. I'm doing some genealogy research. I don't think
24 15: 38: 08 I would qualify that as posting.
Page 182
1 15: 38: 45 Q. Showing you what's been marked as Exhibit 15, do
2 15: 38: 50 you recognize that this is a page off of an Ancestry.com
3 15: 38: 59 site where you have gathered or posted some information
4 15: 39: 07 about Sheriff Elfo's family and others?
5 15: 39: 13 A. I do.
6 15: 39: 18 Q. And not only have -- does this contain
7 15: 39: 23 information about Sheriff Elfo's family, but it also has
8 15: 39: 28 family information about Cooley, Roger Funk, I don't
9 15: 39: 36 know who the Carbs, Larsons are, but Mead, Kevin Mead, a
10 15: 39: 43 sheriff's office employee, Mundt, I think he's with the
11 15: 39: 43 sheriff's office --
12 15: 39: 43 THE REPORTER: What i s t hat name?
13 15: 39: 48 MR. KAMERRER: Mundt , M- U- N- D- T.
14 15: 39: 49 A. No, that's -- that's somebody else.
15 15: 39: 51 Q. Parks, who is Jeff Parks' family, and a second
16 15: 39: 58 posting regarding Parks; is that correct?
17 15: 40: 04 A. That is correct.
18 15: 40: 05 Q. Mundt is not a deputy sheriff or sheriff's office
19 15: 40: 11 employee?
20 15: 40: 11 A. No.
21 15: 40: 12 Q. How about Larson, is that a sheriff's office
22 15: 40: 16 employee?
23 15: 40: 16 A. It is.
24 15: 40: 17 Q. And Carb, is that a sheriff's office employee?
25 15: 40: 20 A. It is.
Page 183
1 15: 40: 20 Q. Why are you putting this information on
2 15: 40: 24 Ancestry.com?
3 15: 40: 25 A. This is all public information.
4 15: 40: 27 Q. Did you request permission from any of these
5 15: 40: 30 people to post information about their family tree or
6 15: 40: 34 family on the site?
7 15: 40: 36 A. It's all public information.
8 15: 40: 38 Q. Did you request permission from anyone to post --
9 15: 40: 42 A. I don't think you need permission for public
10 15: 40: 42 information.
11 15: 40: 45 Q. As a matter of courtesy or politeness --
12 15: 40: 49 A. Courtesy.
13 15: 40: 50 Q. -- did you think that that was something you
14 15: 40: 52 didn't have to accord these people before publicly
15 15: 40: 55 posting information about them?
16 15: 40: 56 A. I think -- courtesy, yeah, okay.
17 15: 41: 02 Public information is public information.
18 15: 41: 05 Q. And you feel free to publish that kind of
19 15: 41: 07 information about anyone; is that right?
20 15: 41: 10 A. Including myself, which you'll notice is the bulk
21 15: 41: 13 of the records. My entire family history is there as
22 15: 41: 21 well. Everything.
23 15: 41: 25 Q. Has anyone other than yourself given you
24 15: 41: 28 permission to do this?
25 15: 41: 29 A. From my own family?
Page 184
1 15: 41: 31 Q. No, anyone outside your family.
2 15: 41: 34 A. It's public information.
3 15: 41: 36 Q. No. The question is has anyone else given you
4 15: 41: 38 permission?
5 15: 41: 39 A. I don't need permission for public information
6 15: 41: 39 that I'm aware of.
7 15: 41: 44 Q. So you haven't sought it or received it; is that
8 15: 41: 47 right?
9 15: 41: 47 A. I would say that's correct.
10 15: 41: 50 Q. What is your objective in publishing this
11 15: 41: 54 information about people other than your own family?
12 15: 41: 57 A. It's not being published by me. It's already
13 15: 42: 00 been published.
14 15: 42: 02 Q. What is your purpose behind including this
15 15: 42: 05 information on a page that is to some extent within your
16 15: 42: 10 control?
17 15: 42: 11 A. It all comes from genealogical records and
18 15: 42: 14 genealogical databases. I'm just simply bookmarking it
19 15: 42: 17 for my own purposes.
20 15: 42: 18 Q. What are your purposes?
21 15: 42: 20 A. I have an interest.
22 15: 42: 21 Q. What is that interest?
23 15: 42: 22 A. My interest is that I want to understand the
24 15: 42: 24 people that have taken significant actions to alter my
25 15: 42: 29 life.
Page 185
1 15: 42: 31 Q. Have you found anything in that genealogical
2 15: 42: 34 research that tells you something that relates to your
3 15: 42: 37 interest?
4 15: 42: 40 A. I know I have, I'm just drawing a blank on what
5 15: 42: 49 it is right off the top.
6 15: 42: 51 Q. Have you done any republication of that
7 15: 42: 55 information on Facebook or anywhere else?
9 15: 43: 00 Q. Is this where you found the photographs of the
10 15: 43: 05 tombstones with the Elfo name on them?
11 15: 43: 08 A. Yes.
12 15: 43: 08 Q. Have you published -- is this where you have
13 15: 43: 20 found information relating to Patricia Rohweder, Sheriff
14 15: 43: 27 Elfo's former wife?
15 15: 43: 29 A. Yes.
16 15: 43: 31 Q. So you've used this to make the implications
17 15: 43: 35 about her and Sheriff Elfo that are posted on your
18 15: 43: 39 Facebook page; is that right?
19 15: 43: 41 A. Used it for the implications -- well, your
20 15: 43: 49 characterization is notwithstanding. I -- it is the
21 15: 43: 55 source of the information, yes.
22 15: 44: 07 Q. Do you use or post to a site called From the
23 15: 44: 41 Trenches World Report.com?
24 15: 44: 45 A. That's a new one to me.
25 15: 44: 47 Q. Do you know someone named William Maher,
Page 186
1 15: 44: 51 M-A-H-E-R, who posts to From the Trenches World
2 15: 44: 57 Report.com?
3 15: 44: 58 A. William Maher? I don't think I do.
4 15: 45: 06 Q. Do you use that name for postings you make
5 15: 45: 10 yourself?
6 15: 45: 11 A. I do not.
7 15: 45: 12 Q. Do you have anyone who is assisting you in
8 15: 45: 45 pursuing information about Sheriff Elfo, his former
9 15: 45: 51 wife, or any of the sheriff's office people who are
10 15: 45: 56 identified on Exhibit 15?
11 15: 45: 58 A. As in a partner or a paid service or...?
12 15: 46: 08 Q. Anyone who is working with you in pursuit of that
13 15: 46: 13 information, whether paid or not.
14 15: 46: 15 A. There have been a couple of people contributing a
15 15: 46: 19 couple tidbits here and there.
16 15: 46: 21 Q. Who are those people?
17 15: 46: 22 A. One is somebody by the name of Mouse.
18 15: 46: 29 Q. Mouse?
19 15: 46: 30 A. She goes by Mouse.
20 15: 46: 31 Q. Do you know the person's real name?
21 15: 46: 35 A. Katherine Mahaffey.
22 15: 46: 40 Q. Is this a Whatcom County resident?
23 15: 46: 45 A. Yes.
24 15: 46: 45 THE REPORTER: Mahaf f ey?
25 15: 46: 49 THE WI TNESS: Mahaf f ey, M- A- H- A- F- F- E- Y.
Page 187
1 15: 47: 04 A. Another one is Barbara Mundt. And there might
2 15: 47: 09 have been a couple of little scattered tidbits here and
3 15: 47: 12 there, but those are two names I do remember.
4 15: 47: 17 Q. And how have they assisted you with information?
5 15: 47: 25 A. Right off the top, I don't recall. Maybe just --
6 15: 47: 33 along the lines of, hey, did you see this, or, hey, did
7 15: 47: 38 you see that or look what I found. I don't recall
8 15: 47: 43 exactly.
9 15: 47: 55 Oh, I do remember one. I do remember one.
10 15: 48: 00 Q. What is that?
11 15: 48: 02 A. It was a -- one was a mortgage record for a
12 15: 48: 09 purchase of property or a transfer of ownership of
13 15: 48: 12 property in Florida.
14 15: 48: 20 Q. Who provided that?
15 15: 48: 21 A. Mahaffey.
16 15: 48: 27 Q. Why was that significant to you?
17 15: 48: 31 A. It was significant to her.
18 15: 48: 34 Q. Did she explain why it was significant to her?
19 15: 48: 37 A. I think she did, I just don't remember what it
20 15: 48: 46 was.
21 15: 48: 46 Q. In one of your postings you made the statement
22 15: 48: 50 that "Murphy was exonerated by Cooley of all charges."
23 15: 48: 57 Do you recall what that was about?
24 15: 48: 59 A. Murphy was exonerated? Without a reference to a
25 15: 49: 12 post, I'm not sure I remember that. I don't think I
Page 188
1 15: 49: 16 remember that.
2 15: 49: 17 Q. You have objected to what you called a change in
3 15: 49: 22 the law enforcement code of ethics. What is the change
4 15: 49: 29 that you're referring to?
5 15: 49: 31 A. That, I do remember. I think the old code of
6 15: 49: 37 ethics was very well thought out, I thought it was
7 15: 49: 45 accountable, I thought it -- it was fitting.
8 15: 49: 54 The new code of ethics, if you can call it that,
9 15: 49: 58 doesn't really have anything to do with ethics at all.
10 15: 50: 02 It has to do with -- with things that really are
11 15: 50: 06 undefinable and amorphous.
12 15: 50: 06 THE REPORTER: And what ?
13 15: 50: 11 THE WI TNESS: Amor phous, gr ay.
14 15: 50: 15 Q. Hasn't that same code of ethics been retained by
15 15: 50: 30 the sheriff's office but added to?
16 15: 50: 32 A. Not from what I recall. I couldn't tell you what
17 15: 50: 36 it is today, but...
18 15: 51: 02 MS. BESCHEN: Do you mi nd i f we t ake a shor t
19 15: 51: 04 br eak bef or e f i ve o' cl ock? At any poi nt t hat ' s good f or
20 15: 51: 09 you.
21 15: 51: 09 MR. KAMERRER: That ' s f i ne. We can t ake one
22 15: 51: 11 now.
24 15: 51: 18 p. m.
Page 189
2 16: 06: 31 at 4: 06 p. m.
3 16: 06: 36 Q. Mr. Murphy, did you tell other deputies that if
4 16: 06: 44 Sheriff Elfo were to be re-elected in 2011, you would
5 16: 06: 47 quit the sheriff's office?
6 16: 06: 50 A. I -- I think I expressed futility and probably
7 16: 07: 00 made statements to that effect.
8 16: 07: 05 Q. Did you ever say that to Sheriff Elfo?
9 16: 07: 11 A. That I was going to quit?
10 16: 07: 13 Q. Yes.
11 16: 07: 14 A. No.
12 16: 07: 19 Q. After the election when Sheriff Elfo had won in
13 16: 07: 26 what can only be called a landslide of 75 percent of the
14 16: 07: 31 voters, did he summon you to his office to talk about
15 16: 07: 36 your declaration to other deputies that you would quit
16 16: 07: 40 if he was re-elected?
17 16: 07: 46 A. Yes.
18 16: 07: 48 Q. And did you have a guild member representative
19 16: 07: 54 there?
20 16: 07: 54 A. I did.
21 16: 07: 55 Q. Sergeant Harris?
22 16: 07: 58 A. Flynn.
23 16: 07: 58 THE REPORTER: Fl ynn?
24 16: 08: 00 THE WI TNESS: Fl ynn, F- L- Y- N- N.
25 16: 08: 04 Q. And the sheriff was there with -- the other
Page 190
1 16: 08: 08 sheriff, Parks?
2 16: 08: 11 A. Yes.
3 16: 08: 11 Q. You have said that Sheriff Elfo threatened to
4 16: 08: 15 terminate you in that meeting; is that correct?
5 16: 08: 18 A. I don't think I used those words, no.
6 16: 08: 23 Q. What words did he say to you about that previous
7 16: 08: 28 declaration by you?
8 16: 08: 29 A. Well, in a very angry and hostile way, he did
9 16: 08: 38 reference those statements, absent some other statements
10 16: 08: 45 that followed, but he did reference those statements.
11 16: 08: 51 And in a roundabout way basically demanded my
12 16: 08: 55 resignation.
13 16: 08: 59 Q. What did he say in a roundabout way? What were
14 16: 09: 07 the words that you considered roundabout way threatening
15 16: 09: 10 to terminate you?
16 16: 09: 11 A. It was the words and the behavior, it was the
17 16: 09: 15 body language as well as the language he was
18 16: 09: 17 communicating.
19 16: 09: 19 He referenced that that he had been, I don't
20 16: 09: 25 think he gave a name of who, but he said that a deputy I
21 16: 09: 30 had spoken with communicated to him that I had been
22 16: 09: 33 expressing concerns about my long-term ability to remain
23 16: 09: 39 employed without being found in violation of something
24 16: 09: 43 or some trumped up thing to terminate me. And in the
25 16: 09: 48 midst of this, he -- just almost in an almost
Page 191
1 16: 09: 57 cartoon-like says: Do you realize there was an election
2 16: 10: 02 for sheriff? Which of course yes, I realize that.
3 16: 10: 05 You realize I was the winner of that election?
4 16: 10: 08 Yes, yes, sir, I do realize that. I've been
5 16: 10: 11 paying attention to the news. And during this, he
6 16: 10: 17 reaches into a -- some kind of little folder that's on
7 16: 10: 20 his desk and he pulls out a certificate and straight
8 16: 10: 24 arms the certificate out across the desk to my face and
9 16: 10: 28 says: As you can see, I am now the elected sheriff,
10 16: 10: 31 again of Whatcom County.
11 16: 10: 33 And the words and the mannerisms are essentially,
12 16: 10: 37 You may resign now. And I got the message. But he
13 16: 10: 42 didn't say, I expect that you'll resign now. It was
14 16: 10: 47 just the way it was communicated.
15 16: 10: 50 Q. So he was asking whether you were going to follow
16 16: 10: 54 up on your declaration that you would quit if he was
17 16: 11: 00 re-elected?
18 16: 11: 01 A. Urging it.
19 16: 11: 04 Q. What did you say?
20 16: 11: 06 A. I said -- I did express some low points. I mean,
21 16: 11: 16 I had already been through pretty lengthy internal
22 16: 11: 20 investigations at that point and I think it was fairly
23 16: 11: 23 clear to everybody within the agency that I had a target
24 16: 11: 29 on my back, as it was said. So -- I said yes, I did
25 16: 11: 34 have some low points, yes, I did express that. But
Page 192
1 16: 11: 37 after that -- and probably to the same people, I also
2 16: 11: 41 said, you know what, I didn't do anything wrong. Why am
3 16: 11: 44 I supposed to be the guy that bows up and leaves if I
4 16: 11: 47 didn't do anything wrong, and I decided I'm not going
5 16: 11: 50 to. I didn't do anything wrong, I'm not quitting.
6 16: 11: 55 Q. Did you say to Sheriff Elfo that your statements
7 16: 11: 58 about quitting if he was re-elected were not
8 16: 12: 02 declarative?
9 16: 12: 05 A. Yes, I think that's exactly the word I used.
10 16: 12: 08 Q. What did you mean by "not declarative"?
11 16: 12: 15 A. A private -- this was in a private setting
12 16: 12: 21 amongst what I thought were friends at the time, a
13 16: 12: 26 private expression of frustration about whether or not
14 16: 12: 29 I'm going to be able to stay out of trouble or whether
15 16: 12: 32 I'm going to have to constantly walk around with my eyes
16 16: 12: 36 on the back of my head and watching out from not just
17 16: 12: 39 what the threats on the street but the threats from in
18 16: 12: 43 the office.
19 16: 12: 44 I mean, it was an expression of frustration is
20 16: 12: 50 what it was. So when I said it was not declarative, I
21 16: 12: 53 didn't say, I am going to quit. That would be
22 16: 12: 56 declarative. It was more like, Huh, the deck is so
23 16: 13: 04 stacked against me. What chance does the little guy
24 16: 13: 08 have? I should just quit.
25 16: 13: 10 Q. Did you ever apply for a lateral transfer to
Page 193
1 16: 13: 14 another police agency while you still worked for the
2 16: 13: 19 sheriff's office?
3 16: 13: 20 A. No.
4 16: 13: 28 Q. In 2008 you were required to meet with a police
5 16: 13: 36 psychologist, Dr. Bill Ekemo, do you remember that?
6 16: 13: 39 A. I do.
7 16: 13: 40 Q. And did you understand why you were required to
8 16: 13: 43 do that?
9 16: 13: 43 A. I know what I was told.
10 16: 13: 45 Q. What were you told?
11 16: 13: 46 A. I was told it was a quote/unquote training
12 16: 13: 49 session, but I understood it to be a backdoor psych
13 16: 13: 54 eval.
14 16: 13: 56 Q. Were you told what had prompted the referral to
15 16: 14: 01 Dr. Ekemo?
16 16: 14: 04 A. I was told it was a training session. It wasn't
17 16: 14: 07 really explained to me how or why.
18 16: 14: 10 Q. Were you aware that there were reports that you
19 16: 14: 16 had said things to other deputies, including that there
20 16: 14: 22 were helicopters following you around and people were
21 16: 14: 25 watching you?
22 16: 14: 29 A. I have actually experienced that.
23 16: 14: 31 Q. So that was a true declaration on your part?
24 16: 14: 34 A. That was a true statement.
25 16: 14: 36 Q. And you believed that those people in the
Page 194
1 16: 14: 39 helicopters were watching you specifically?
2 16: 14: 42 A. Well, they who hovered over my house and shined a
3 16: 14: 46 flood light through my ceiling lights in my house, so,
4 16: 14: 50 yeah, I think it was intentional.
5 16: 14: 51 Q. Did that happen on more than one occasion?
6 16: 14: 53 A. Yes, it did.
7 16: 14: 54 Q. Did it happen when you were on duty as a deputy
8 16: 14: 57 sheriff?
9 16: 14: 57 A. No.
10 16: 15: 05 Q. Did you make statements to other deputies to the
11 16: 15: 09 effect that you thought someone was tampering with your
12 16: 15: 13 computer when you were serving as a -- a patrol
13 16: 15: 16 investigator?
14 16: 15: 17 A. I know they were.
15 16: 15: 20 Q. Did you say that to other deputies?
16 16: 15: 24 A. I'm sure I did.
17 16: 15: 25 Q. On more than one occasion?
18 16: 15: 27 A. Probably.
19 16: 15: 31 Q. Did that include a situation where you were told
20 16: 15: 39 that Undersheriff James, the former undersheriff, asked
21 16: 15: 45 to talk to you in his office and you went in there and
22 16: 15: 49 returned carrying a call cap that the undersheriff had
23 16: 15: 55 given you as a gift? Do you remember that?
24 16: 15: 58 A. I do. Except the ball cap, I believe, he stopped
25 16: 16: 03 by the detectives office to give that to me. I didn't
Page 195
1 16: 16: 06 bring that back. He gave -- he brought it in.
2 16: 16: 10 Q. After that meeting, do you recall that when you
3 16: 16: 13 reentered your workspace, you -- you began questioning
4 16: 16: 19 the other deputies there about who had been tampering
5 16: 16: 23 with your computer?
6 16: 16: 26 A. I don't recall that specific instance, but I do
7 16: 16: 28 know that somebody was tampering with my stuff. I
8 16: 16: 32 started locking my desk up at night because of it.
9 16: 16: 36 Q. Were you consistently told when you said those
10 16: 16: 40 things to other deputies that no one was tampering with
11 16: 16: 45 your computer?
12 16: 16: 49 A. I don't remember anybody admitting to it. I
13 16: 16: 53 don't recall ever accusing anybody, although, it was
14 16: 16: 56 pretty obvious to me somebody had been tampering with my
15 16: 17: 00 stuff.
16 16: 17: 00 Q. On one occasion did you tell other deputies or
17 16: 17: 09 another deputy that you were concerned about the fact
18 16: 17: 13 that the Qubec National Police were participating in
19 16: 17: 20 some kind of training in Whatcom County and somehow they
20 16: 17: 24 knew you were a Mohawk Indian member?
21 16: 17: 29 A. I don't think it was characterized that way.
22 16: 17: 34 Q. How was it characterized?
23 16: 17: 36 A. I think it was from other conversations I would
24 16: 17: 41 say that it was known of why I had some concerns about
25 16: 17: 46 that. But there were one or two people in particular
Page 196
1 16: 17: 52 that made kind of a big show about wearing their Sret
2 16: 17: 52 du Qubec T-shirts around.
3 16: 17: 52 THE REPORTER: " About wear i ng t hei r " . . . ?
4 16: 18: 01 THE WI TNESS: Sr et du Qubec. I t ' s t he
5 16: 18: 04 Qubec Pr ovi nci al Pol i ce.
6 16: 18: 05 A. I think it was a sniper team training. I don't
7 16: 18: 08 recall what the training was, but it was Sret du
8 16: 18: 10 Qubec.
9 16: 18: 13 And I know -- I know that the tensions are high
10 16: 18: 15 between Sret du Qubec and my side of the family from
11 16: 18: 21 Kahnawake Reservation. They still to this day are
12 16: 18: 25 trying to solve the murder of Corporal Lemay, which they
13 16: 18: 32 believe is a murder, and they're still trying to find a
14 16: 18: 35 native to pin it on.
15 16: 18: 36 Q. So you thought that these folks from the Qubec
16 16: 18: 40 National Police were there in Whatcom County to observe
17 16: 18: 44 you?
18 16: 18: 44 A. That's not what I said.
19 16: 18: 46 Q. What did you think they were there to do?
20 16: 18: 48 A. I said people were going out of their way to
21 16: 18: 51 parade the T-shirts around in front of me. They knew
22 16: 18: 54 what it meant. They understood what they were doing.
23 16: 18: 56 Q. So they were targeting you by wearing a
24 16: 18: 59 particular T-shirt?
25 16: 19: 00 A. They were taunting me.
Page 197
1 16: 19: 02 Q. Do you have any connection to some crime back in
2 16: 19: 05 Qubec?
3 16: 19: 06 A. No, I don't.
4 16: 19: 07 Q. You were born in Qubec; is that right?
5 16: 19: 10 A. I was.
6 16: 19: 11 Q. You're a naturalized citizen of the US?
7 16: 19: 14 A. I'm actually a natural American.
8 16: 19: 17 Q. Okay.
9 16: 19: 17 Do you have dual citizenship with Canada?
10 16: 19: 20 A. I am a natural First Nations American.
11 16: 19: 24 Q. But you went through a naturalization process in
12 16: 19: 26 the US, didn't you?
13 16: 19: 27 A. I did, but it was actually -- it was actually
14 16: 19: 31 incorrect. It shouldn't have happened. I didn't know
15 16: 19: 34 at the time. It shouldn't have happened, but it did.
16 16: 19: 37 Q. Are you a member of the Mohawk tribe?
17 16: 19: 40 A. I am.
18 16: 19: 46 Q. Were you upset that someone named Penny worked in
19 16: 19: 53 the sheriff's office and you thought she was connected
20 16: 19: 55 to outlaw motorcycle gangs?
21 16: 19: 58 A. I heard two questions there.
22 16: 20: 05 Q. Well, it's really one question. But did Penny
23 16: 20: 08 work at the front desk?
24 16: 20: 09 A. She did.
25 16: 20: 10 Q. Did you think she had connections with outlaw
Page 198
1 16: 20: 13 motorcycle gangs?
2 16: 20: 14 A. I know she did.
3 16: 20: 16 Q. And did you tell other deputies that would you
4 16: 20: 18 have to wear a black mask to protect the identities of
5 16: 20: 22 informants that you brought into the office?
6 16: 20: 25 A. Probably one of many jokes that were made. I
7 16: 20: 29 don't know.
8 16: 20: 29 Q. You told them that though?
9 16: 20: 30 A. It's possible. I don't know.
10 16: 20: 32 Q. And how was Penny connected to outlaw motorcycle
11 16: 20: 38 groups?
12 16: 20: 40 A. Again, we're going back to, what, 2006. The
13 16: 20: 47 names are escaping me, but it was her, I believe, niece
14 16: 20: 53 that was either married to or living with one of the big
15 16: 20: 56 name high profile Banditos, a patched member of the
16 16: 21: 06 Banditos.
17 16: 21: 06 THE REPORTER: A what member ?
18 16: 21: 08 THE WI TNESS: A pat ched or hi gh pr of i l e.
19 16: 21: 08 THE REPORTER: A pat ched member .
20 16: 21: 08 THE WI TNESS: Ful l - pat ched member .
21 16: 21: 09 A. And she was apparently seen in the company of --
22 16: 21: 14 I mean, I guess family gatherings included Banditos, so
23 16: 21: 26 infer what you will.
24 16: 21: 33 Q. Did you ever bring that to the attention of
25 16: 21: 35 anyone who was a supervisor of you?
Page 199
1 16: 21: 39 A. I did.
2 16: 21: 40 Q. Who?
3 16: 21: 40 A. Kevin McFadden, probably Undersheriff James as
4 16: 21: 52 well, probably Chief Parks at the time before he was
5 16: 21: 58 undersheriff.
6 16: 22: 00 Q. Did anything ever happen related to Penny that
7 16: 22: 10 suggested she had done something to tip off, protect or
8 16: 22: 18 otherwise favor any outlaw motorcycle gang person?
9 16: 22: 22 A. She did.
10 16: 22: 23 Q. What was that?
11 16: 22: 24 A. It was -- and again my memory is a little faded
12 16: 22: 30 on it because it's a number of years ago. I don't
13 16: 22: 34 remember who called, but a person of interest called the
14 16: 22: 39 sheriff's office wanting to talk to the -- you know, the
15 16: 22: 43 detective assigned to the toy investigation which was me
16 16: 22: 46 at the time, and somehow -- I'm actually drawing a blank
17 16: 22: 56 on how we put it together, but somehow we figured out
18 16: 23: 00 that she had tipped off these people to turn in a bunch
19 16: 23: 04 of toys that had been stolen in a big toy and comic book
20 16: 23: 09 burglary, and it's really kind of escaping me at the
21 16: 23: 13 moment how that happened, but we put the pieces together
22 16: 23: 16 and realized that it was Penny that tipped them off.
23 16: 23: 19 Because all of a sudden this guy is coming in out of the
24 16: 23: 23 clear blue and wanting to go turn in toys when he's a
25 16: 23: 26 suspect in the burglary.
Page 200
1 16: 23: 29 So that was an active investigation, that was one
2 16: 23: 31 big high profile active investigation that was
3 16: 23: 33 essentially tanked because of a compromise in the front
4 16: 23: 37 office.
5 16: 23: 39 Q. Even if the person turned in the toys that were
6 16: 23: 47 burglarized, that doesn't change the ability to
7 16: 23: 51 prosecute for burglary, does it?
8 16: 23: 54 A. I suppose not, but...
9 16: 23: 58 Q. You can't escape being charged with robbery if
10 16: 24: 01 you give the money back to the bank?
11 16: 24: 04 A. True.
12 16: 24: 04 Q. Marvin Wolf, why is he suspicious to you?
13 16: 24: 14 A. Aside from how he's always treated me?
14 16: 24: 18 Q. I want to know every reason you have for being
15 16: 24: 21 suspicious of Marvin Wolf.
16 16: 24: 23 A. It starts at the very beginning from probably the
17 16: 24: 26 very first time I ever met the man.
18 16: 24: 28 Q. And he is an 80-plus-year-old man?
19 16: 24: 34 A. I'm sure he is by now, yeah.
20 16: 24: 36 Q. And he worked as a volunteer in the sheriff's
21 16: 24: 40 office?
22 16: 24: 40 A. Still does as far as I know.
23 16: 24: 42 Q. What does he do?
24 16: 24: 44 A. Couldn't tell you. I don't know.
25 16: 24: 46 Q. Does have something to do with filing?
Page 201
1 16: 24: 48 A. That's the story.
2 16: 24: 51 Q. What do you think his unseemly character or
3 16: 25: 03 behavior is?
4 16: 25: 09 A. Unseemly or...?
5 16: 25: 09 Q. Behavior.
6 16: 25: 16 A. Why do I not like him?
7 16: 25: 18 Q. Yeah, why don't you like him, that's good.
8 16: 25: 20 A. Because of probably the very first time I met the
9 16: 25: 23 guy.
10 16: 25: 23 Q. Okay. Tell me why then.
11 16: 25: 25 A. Okay. Well, I had gone into the reception area,
12 16: 25: 31 this was on duty, so I'm in my -- you know, my detective
13 16: 25: 35 attire. Got my duty rig on, my shoulder holster with a
14 16: 25: 41 gun and magazines, and the badge is right here
15 16: 25: 44 (indicating) because it's -- at the time it's just where
16 16: 25: 45 would we preferred to keep the badge, that way you could
17 16: 25: 49 unstrap the shoulder holster and you could throw it in
18 16: 25: 52 the cabinet and lock it up if you had to sit and type
19 16: 25: 55 for a while or something like that.
20 16: 25: 56 Well, anyway I had my shoulder holster on and I
21 16: 26: 01 went into the front office to take care of whatever it
22 16: 26: 03 was I went in there to find out about, and I don't even
23 16: 26: 05 remember what it was, but Marvin Wolf comes up right
24 16: 26: 08 behind me, I mean, so I turn around and he's, like,
25 16: 26: 11 right there at my face. I'm tall, he's a little
Page 202
1 16: 26: 14 shorter.
2 16: 26: 15 And he's just right there. And he's glaring me
3 16: 26: 18 in the eye. And so I don't know what's going on with
4 16: 26: 22 him. And then he says, "Why do you wear your badge up
5 16: 26: 25 on your upper right chest like that?" And I'm thinking,
6 16: 26: 31 I don't know who this guy is, he's not in my chain of
7 16: 26: 34 command, I don't even know why he's there, and why is he
8 16: 26: 37 asking me these questions. I don't know.
9 16: 26: 39 So I'm a little standoffish from him and I'm
10 16: 26: 42 like, "Because we do. Why is it of interest to you?"
11 16: 26: 48 And he doesn't answer me and he just says, "Well,
12 16: 26: 50 that should be down on your belt." So, again, I don't
13 16: 26: 54 know who I'm talking to, but this guy is acting like
14 16: 26: 57 he's kind of the general of the sheriff's office and
15 16: 27: 00 he's giving me, the little peon private, the order to
16 16: 27: 04 move the badge from here to here (indicating), and I
17 16: 27: 07 said, "I don't think so. You're not in my chain of
18 16: 27: 10 command, I don't work for you, I don't answer to you,
19 16: 27: 13 and have a good day." And I turned around and walked
20 16: 27: 17 and went back to the detective unit. So it goes all
21 16: 27: 20 downhill from there.
22 16: 27: 23 Q. Have you said that you think that Marvin Wolf is
23 16: 27: 29 a agent of the Israeli secret police known as Mossad?
24 16: 27: 34 A. I have said that's other people have said.
25 16: 27: 38 Q. And you believe that?
Page 203
1 16: 27: 39 A. I don't know what to believe about the guy.
2 16: 27: 42 Q. You have -- you have posted statements to the
3 16: 27: 48 effect that you think he is a member of Mossad, haven't
4 16: 27: 51 you?
5 16: 27: 51 A. I don't think so. I don't have any evidence of
6 16: 27: 54 that.
7 16: 27: 55 Q. Do you find him suspicious in any way other than
8 16: 28: 01 his rudeness towards you?
9 16: 28: 03 A. He was very rude to me.
10 16: 28: 06 Q. Do you find him suspicious in any other way than
11 16: 28: 09 rudeness?
12 16: 28: 10 A. He's strange character.
13 16: 28: 15 Q. How so?
14 16: 28: 17 A. He just -- his name seems to pop up in strange
15 16: 28: 19 places and...
16 16: 28: 20 Q. Where?
17 16: 28: 20 A. He came up in the -- actually, he came up in the
18 16: 28: 23 EHM case, the electronic home monitoring case. Turns
19 16: 28: 27 out that he was heading the board of jail industry
20 16: 28: 30 oversight and I was probably passing the guy every day
21 16: 28: 35 in the hallway and I had no idea that he is the board
22 16: 28: 38 chair of this electronic home monitoring thing that I
23 16: 28: 45 was investigating for the state, not just for the
24 16: 28: 49 county, for the whole state.
25 16: 28: 51 Q. Well, he was retired by the time you encountered
Page 204
1 16: 28: 54 him, wasn't he?
2 16: 28: 55 A. Retired from the State?
3 16: 28: 57 Q. Yes.
5 16: 29: 01 Q. In what other way did you find him suspicious?
6 16: 29: 13 A. See, that's your word, "suspicious."
7 16: 29: 16 Q. Well --
8 16: 29: 18 A. I don't like the guy.
9 16: 29: 20 Q. In what other way do you have a basis for not
10 16: 29: 25 liking him?
11 16: 29: 26 A. He just seems to want to be in everybody's
12 16: 29: 30 business, but he never seems to be really want to be up
13 16: 29: 33 front about it, and I don't like that kind of person.
14 16: 29: 38 If he's in my business, well, then put him on the chain
15 16: 29: 42 of command and let's call him -- give him an assignment
16 16: 29: 45 and let's call him lieutenant so-and-so then we'll
17 16: 29: 48 report to him. But this backdoor hide him in the back
18 16: 29: 51 room, pretend that he's filing and helping writing
19 16: 29: 55 grants nonsense I think is foolish.
20 16: 29: 58 Q. What do you think his real purpose is for being
21 16: 30: 01 there?
22 16: 30: 01 A. Couldn't tell you. Don't know.
23 16: 30: 03 Q. You've done research on him, haven't you, like
24 16: 30: 07 you do other people?
25 16: 30: 08 A. I did.
Page 205
1 16: 30: 09 Q. And did you ever find any connection to any
2 16: 30: 13 Israeli government organization in his background?
3 16: 30: 18 A. I think what I was told was that he was a member
4 16: 30: 22 of some kind of -- Deputy Heinrich once told me that
5 16: 30: 28 Marvin was connected to Department of Homeland Security.
6 16: 30: 33 Deputy Heinrich said that he was either handpicked or
7 16: 30: 37 chaired by President Bush, and that piqued my curiosity
8 16: 30: 44 because he's essentially got no real title inside the
9 16: 30: 48 office, but he's supposed to be this big mucky-muck guy
10 16: 30: 52 in national -- national security issues. That's a
11 16: 30: 55 little strange to me.
12 16: 30: 57 So in my research, I'm looking for the link,
13 16: 31: 00 okay, where's his affiliation with national security?
14 16: 31: 04 Where is -- where's his appointment by President Bush to
15 16: 31: 09 the National Security Council. And I could never find
16 16: 31: 13 it.
17 16: 31: 14 So does that mean Heinrich is going around
18 16: 31: 17 spreading misinformation or does that mean Marvin lied
19 16: 31: 20 to Heinrich? I don't know.
20 16: 31: 22 Q. Do you know whether he passed a background check
21 16: 31: 25 before he volunteered or was allowed to volunteer at the
22 16: 31: 28 sheriff's office?
23 16: 31: 28 A. I have no idea.
24 16: 31: 30 Q. Aside from Deputy Heinrich, did anyone else tell
25 16: 31: 35 you information about Marvin Wolf that caused you to
Page 206
1 16: 31: 41 either dislike him further or be suspicious of him?
2 16: 31: 45 A. Oh, there was -- I don't remember names, but I --
3 16: 31: 52 I just -- what I do remember is that occasionally his
4 16: 31: 55 name would come up, like what does that guy really do?
5 16: 31: 59 And nobody knew. That's it.
6 16: 32: 02 Q. Who passed on the information to you suggesting
7 16: 32: 07 that Marvin Wolf was a member or past member of Mossad?
8 16: 32: 13 A. I don't remember. It could have been Heinrich.
9 16: 32: 26 I just -- I just -- I'm not sure. Heinrich seemed to
10 16: 32: 31 get pretty close to him there for a while. Had coffee
11 16: 32: 34 with him. It seemed like he had pretty regular morning
12 16: 32: 37 meetings with the guy, so he seemed to know him.
13 16: 32: 41 Q. When you communicated -- well, strike that.
14 16: 32: 51 My recollection from the interviews is that you
15 16: 32: 55 said you understood that information technology had
16 16: 33: 02 approved you swapping out the hard drives on some of
17 16: 33: 08 your laptop computers; is that right?
18 16: 33: 10 A. Yes.
19 16: 33: 12 Q. Did that approval come from -- well, strike that.
20 16: 33: 22 From -- did that approval come in writing to you?
21 16: 33: 29 A. If it did, I never found it. I don't think so.
22 16: 33: 33 Q. Did you request that approval in writing?
23 16: 33: 35 A. I don't think I would have, no.
24 16: 33: 38 Q. Was it done by telephone?
25 16: 33: 41 A. With the MDT, probably. With the previous
Page 207
1 16: 33: 48 computers, I think it was probably face to face, so I'm
2 16: 33: 51 not sure.
3 16: 33: 52 Q. Do you distinctly remember which employees of IT
4 16: 33: 57 you spoke to to get that permission?
5 16: 34: 01 A. I spoke to them, just about all of them, at one
6 16: 34: 04 time or another.
7 16: 34: 05 Q. About that subject?
8 16: 34: 06 A. That's the part I'm not sure about. I don't know
9 16: 34: 11 what conversation that came up in.
10 16: 34: 13 Q. And how did you ask whether you could swap the
11 16: 34: 19 hard drive?
12 16: 34: 20 A. I don't think I even remember that. It was -- it
13 16: 34: 24 was something so -- I don't know, it seemed
14 16: 34: 28 insignificant to anything, unremarkable, unnoteworthy.
15 16: 34: 35 It was just, like, hey, do you mind if I put a bigger
16 16: 34: 39 hard drive in my computer. Yeah, go ahead. Oh, okay.
17 16: 34: 41 Q. Did they ask you to turn in the old hard drive?
18 16: 34: 44 A. I don't recall that.
19 16: 34: 45 Q. Did they ask you to wipe the old hard drive with
20 16: 34: 49 any sheriff's office information?
22 16: 34: 52 Q. Did they ask you to let them wipe it, even if
23 16: 34: 57 they were going to return it to you?
25 16: 35: 03 Q. Did you ever ask permission from any supervisor
Page 208
1 16: 35: 07 of yours or any member of the administration of the
2 16: 35: 11 sheriff's office to swap a hard drive out of your laptop
3 16: 35: 17 computer?
4 16: 35: 18 A. I think I -- I'm pretty sure I did on the first
5 16: 35: 22 one.
6 16: 35: 22 Q. And who did you communicate with about that?
7 16: 35: 25 A. That would have been McFadden.
8 16: 35: 28 Q. Is he a sergeant?
9 16: 35: 30 A. He was the detective sergeant at the time.
10 16: 35: 32 Q. And how did you ask him about that?
11 16: 35: 35 A. I know I wouldn't have done it on my own. So
12 16: 35: 44 I'm -- it's probably speculation on my part, but I -- I
13 16: 35: 47 just know that I wouldn't have just gone ahead and done
14 16: 35: 53 it. So I communicated with him every day about
15 16: 35: 56 everything else. I don't know why I would have skipped
16 16: 35: 58 that one.
17 16: 35: 59 Q. What was his response to that request?
18 16: 36: 01 A. Well, it -- the hard drive was swapped, so I
19 16: 36: 05 guess favorable.
20 16: 36: 06 Q. You don't remember what he said, is that --
21 16: 36: 10 A. Not exactly. No, I don't.
22 16: 36: 18 Q. Was that done in writing?
23 16: 36: 20 A. No, not that I've been able to find.
24 16: 36: 29 Q. Did you know of any other deputies who had
25 16: 36: 31 swapped hard drives on their computers?
Page 209
1 16: 36: 34 A. I don't know anybody else that could.
2 16: 36: 36 Q. So you don't know anybody who did?
3 16: 36: 38 A. No.
4 16: 36: 38 MR. KAMERRER: Mar k t hat one 15.
5 16: 36: 38 THE REPORTER: 16.
6 16: 36: 38 MR. KAMERRER: 16?
7 16: 36: 38 THE REPORTER: 16.
8 16: 36: 44 MR. KAMERRER: Sor r y.
10 16: 37: 06 Q. Showing you what's been marked as Exhibit 16 --
12 16: 37: 46 MS. BESCHEN: I s t hi s di f f er ent t han Exhi bi t
13 16: 37: 46 6?
14 16: 37: 49 THE WI TNESS: Oh, t hi s i s t he second - -
15 16: 37: 49 MR. KAMERRER: Thi s i s f or t he second
16 16: 37: 50 i nt er vi ew.
17 16: 37: 51 Q. I'm just asking you to identify that as the
18 16: 37: 57 advice of administrative interview that proceeded the
19 16: 38: 01 May 3, 2012 interview.
21 16: 38: 19 MS. BESCHEN: I t hi nk t hi s i s al so Exhi bi t
22 16: 38: 22 6.
23 16: 38: 22 MR. KAMERRER: Par don?
24 16: 38: 23 MS. BESCHEN: You al r eady made t hi s Exhi bi t
25 16: 38: 25 6.
Page 210
1 16: 38: 25 MR. KAMERRER: Okay. Somewher e I ' ve made a
2 16: 38: 30 mi st ake because I ' mi nt endi ng t o have bot h of t hose
3 16: 38: 34 advi ce f or ms.
4 16: 38: 35 MS. BESCHEN: You al r eady put bot h i n.
5 16: 38: 36 MR. KAMERRER: Bot h of t hem?
6 16: 38: 38 MS. BESCHEN: Mm- hm.
8 16: 38: 41 THE WI TNESS: Thi s one has t he Thur sday, t he
9 16: 38: 44 t hi r d cor r ect i on on i t .
10 16: 38: 50 MR. KAMERRER: Woul d you pr ef er t hat I
11 16: 38: 52 wi t hdr aw t hat exhi bi t or do you want t o j ust - -
12 16: 38: 52 THE REPORTER: No. Go ahead. J ust make i t
13 16: 38: 52 - - j ust pul l i t back and j ust mar k somet hi ng el se number
14 16: 39: 24 16.
15 16: 39: 24 MR. KAMERRER: Okay. I t hi nk I know what
16 16: 39: 26 happened. I t hi nk t hat had a 6 on i t bef or e I gave i t
17 16: 39: 29 t o you and I scr at ched i t of f t hi nki ng i t needed t o be
18 16: 39: 32 an addi t i onal one. The handwr i t i ng i n t he l ower r i ght
19 16: 39: 35 of t hi s document r i ght her e.
20 16: 39: 36 MS. BESCHEN: So t hi s i s your 6?
21 16: 39: 37 MR. KAMERRER: Yeah, t hat ' s my 6, t hat ' s t he
22 16: 39: 40 pr obl em. Thank you f or cat chi ng t hat .
23 16: 39: 52 ( Exhi bi t No. 16 r emar ked. )
24 16: 40: 01 Q. Showing you what's been marked Exhibit 16, I'll
25 16: 40: 06 represent to you, Mr. Murphy, that this is a copy of the
Page 211
1 16: 40: 10 transcript of the interview of you by Inspector Cooley
2 16: 40: 16 on March -- or excuse me -- May 3, 2012. Assuming that
3 16: 40: 23 this is complete, do you recognize this as a transcript
4 16: 40: 27 of that interview?
6 16: 40: 37 Yes.
7 16: 40: 37 Q. I'm going to ask you some more questions about
8 16: 40: 49 that, but I want to go back to Dr. Ekemo. I forgot to
9 16: 40: 54 ask all my questions about that.
10 16: 40: 56 Did Dr. Ekemo give you counseling at the meeting
11 16: 41: 00 you had with him?
12 16: 41: 03 A. He seemed to want to talk about what was going
13 16: 41: 08 on. I don't know that he ever characterized it that
14 16: 41: 12 way.
15 16: 41: 12 Q. Did you take any psychological tests, such as the
16 16: 41: 15 MMPI, for example, for Dr. Ekemo?
17 16: 41: 18 A. No.
18 16: 41: 19 Q. Did it consist completely of an interview?
19 16: 41: 22 A. I had the impression that he was interviewing me
20 16: 41: 26 about what was going on, yeah.
21 16: 41: 27 Q. Did he appear to have information, documentary or
22 16: 41: 35 otherwise, about you going into that interview?
23 16: 41: 39 A. He -- as near as I can recall, he implied or
24 16: 41: 49 inferred to me that questions had been raised, but I
25 16: 41: 55 don't think he really wanted to define where that came
Page 212
1 16: 41: 58 from or why.
2 16: 41: 59 Q. Okay.
3 16: 41: 59 A. So he just asked me, "Tell me from your point of
4 16: 42: 03 view what's going on."
5 16: 42: 05 Q. And this was in 2008; is that right?
6 16: 42: 09 A. I only met with him once, so yeah.
7 16: 42: 11 Q. Okay. And did he give you counseling about
8 16: 42: 15 things like stress management or other things that
9 16: 42: 23 related to your perception of what other people were
10 16: 42: 28 thinking or doing?
11 16: 42: 29 A. Not that I recall. I remember him wanting to
12 16: 42: 35 know more about what was going on. He wanted me to
13 16: 42: 38 explain to him, I guess what led to his being called.
14 16: 42: 44 So I told him the circumstances of what was happening,
15 16: 42: 47 and I remember him being pretty favorable to my position
16 16: 42: 51 about what was going on and why I was upset about it.
17 16: 42: 54 Q. Did you see any follow-up documentation about
18 16: 42: 57 that?
19 16: 42: 57 A. Never did. And I asked for it, but I never saw
20 16: 43: 07 it.
21 16: 43: 07 Q. Did he tell you to be cautious about anything?
22 16: 43: 18 A. I don't recall anything like that, no.
23 16: 43: 21 Q. Did he tell you to be careful about misperceiving
24 16: 43: 28 the intent of other people?
25 16: 43: 32 A. I don't recall that.
Page 213
1 16: 43: 33 Q. Okay.
2 16: 43: 41 Now, I want to go back to the transcript of the
3 16: 43: 43 May 3, 2012 interview. And just to set the stage, you
4 16: 43: 54 recognize this was after the March 1, 2012 interview and
5 16: 44: 02 after the email that you sent to Lieutenant Hester --
6 16: 44: 18 THE REPORTER: Hest er ?
7 16: 44: 18 MR. KAMERRER: Yes, Hest er .
8 16: 44: 19 Q. -- correct?
9 16: 44: 19 A. Correct, yes.
10 16: 44: 20 Q. And I want you to turn to Page 6, Line 233.
12 16: 44: 39 Q. And I'm just going to read the portion of this
13 16: 44: 43 and then I'll ask you a question. Starting at Line 233.
14 16: 44: 52 Question: Did you ever take that specific hard
15 16: 44: 58 drive out of that computer?
16 16: 44: 59 Answer: I thought I just asked that, but yes, I
17 16: 45: 03 did.
18 16: 45: 05 Question: Okay. Why did you do that?
19 16: 45: 09 Answer: It was on my determination just too
20 16: 45: 13 small of a hard drive for what I needed.
22 16: 45: 19 A. Looks to be to me, yeah.
23 16: 45: 22 Q. And did you know that he was referring to the
24 16: 45: 25 Toughbook computer when you gave those answers?
25 16: 45: 28 A. I think so, yeah.
Page 214
1 16: 45: 29 Q. And if you wanted to increase the size of the
2 16: 45: 37 hard drive in the Toughbook computer and it contained an
3 16: 45: 43 80 gigabyte drive, you would have to get a hundred or
4 16: 45: 50 whatever, 160 if they make them, drive, wouldn't you?
5 16: 45: 55 A. It would have to be bigger than 80 to increase
6 16: 45: 59 it, yes.
7 16: 46: 01 Q. Do you have a recollection of purchasing a larger
8 16: 46: 05 than 80 gigabyte drive to install in that computer?
9 16: 46: 09 A. For that purpose, no, I don't.
10 16: 46: 13 Q. For any purpose?
11 16: 46: 15 A. Well, I have larger drives but for that purpose,
12 16: 46: 19 no.
13 16: 46: 21 Q. Were the larger drives purchased for personal
14 16: 46: 25 laptop computers?
15 16: 46: 27 A. Personal laptop? No.
16 16: 46: 30 Q. The other drives that you brought today that are
17 16: 46: 35 suitable for use in a laptop, where have those been
18 16: 46: 38 used?
19 16: 46: 40 A. As far as I know, just backup, just for backups.
20 16: 46: 45 Q. So as far as you recall they've never been
21 16: 46: 47 installed in a laptop computer itself?
22 16: 46: 50 A. As far as I can recall, yes.
23 16: 46: 54 Q. What did you do to determine what the size of the
24 16: 47: 05 hard drive was in the Toughbook computer, as it was
25 16: 47: 09 originally issued to you?
Page 215
1 16: 47: 12 A. I think I have already told you, I don't
2 16: 47: 12 remember.
3 16: 47: 15 Q. Is that something you can do by looking at system
4 16: 47: 18 properties on a computer?
5 16: 47: 19 A. Yes.
6 16: 47: 20 Q. Did you ever do that?
7 16: 47: 21 A. I'm sure I did.
8 16: 47: 23 Q. You just don't recall what you saw?
9 16: 47: 25 A. Correct.
10 16: 47: 26 Q. If you wanted to double the size of the hard
11 16: 47: 33 drive, wouldn't you look at that to know what you needed
12 16: 47: 36 to purchase?
13 16: 47: 36 A. Sounds reasonable to me.
14 16: 47: 38 Q. Did you do that?
15 16: 47: 39 A. Like I said, I don't recall.
16 16: 47: 42 Q. Then if you turn to Page 11 of Exhibit 16, or the
17 16: 47: 58 transcript?
19 16: 48: 07 Q. And go down to Line 470?
21 16: 48: 21 Q. I'll read a portion of that and then I'll ask you
22 16: 48: 25 a question.
23 16: 48: 25 Question: Okay. Okay. In September of 2010,
24 16: 48: 29 you have turned in the Toughbook so it could be
25 16: 48: 32 reconfigured by information technology for use with the
Page 216
1 16: 48: 36 County's new Windows Server platform. What drive was in
2 16: 48: 41 the Toughbook at that time?
3 16: 48: 43 Answer: I believe that was the drive that I
4 16: 48: 46 installed in the computer.
6 16: 48: 50 A. Yes.
7 16: 48: 51 Q. And you were referring to a drive that you
8 16: 48: 56 installed in that computer before the migration; is that
9 16: 49: 01 correct?
10 16: 49: 01 A. No, I don't think so. I think I was probably
11 16: 49: 07 referring to what I believed at the time, which was
12 16: 49: 12 probably speculation.
13 16: 49: 13 Q. Was the event that Cooley referred to as being
14 16: 49: 20 reconfigured by information technology, was that the
15 16: 49: 24 migration as we've referred to it earlier?
16 16: 49: 29 A. Yes, yes.
17 16: 49: 30 Q. Okay.
18 16: 49: 44 MS. BESCHEN: We' ve got t o be out of her e i n
19 16: 49: 46 t en mi nut es.
20 16: 49: 48 MR. KAMERRER: I know.
21 16: 49: 48 THE REPORTER: I t t akes me a f ew mi nut es t o
22 16: 49: 55 t ake ever yt hi ng down, and t he vi deogr apher t oo.
23 16: 49: 55 MR. KAMERRER: Okay. Let me - - l et ' s go of f
24 16: 49: 56 t he r ecor d r i ght now.
25 16: 49: 59 THE VI DEOGRAPHER: Okay. Of f t he r ecor d at
Page 217
1 16: 50: 00 4: 49 p. m.
4 16: 52: 52 at 4: 52 p. m.
5 16: 52: 59 MR. KAMERRER: For t he r ecor d, I have a
6 16: 53: 01 number of addi t i onal quest i ons. I ' muncer t ai n about
7 16: 53: 07 t hei r i mpor t ance t o t he over al l case and I woul d pr ef er
8 16: 53: 15 not t o r emove our sel ves f r omher e and r eassembl e i n your
9 16: 53: 21 of f i ce t o t r y t o f i ni sh up, i nst ead I woul d pr ef er t o
10 16: 53: 24 get a copy of t he t r anscr i pt , r evi ew i t and see whet her
11 16: 53: 28 I have some essent i al quest i ons t hat I have t o ask
12 16: 53: 29 wi t hi n t he f i nal hour of t i me t hat I have f or t hi s
13 16: 53: 31 deposi t i on.
14 16: 53: 32 And so t hat ' s my i nt ent i on, and you can
15 16: 53: 37 di sagr ee i f you want , but t hat ' s what I i nt end t o do.
16 16: 53: 40 MS. BESCHEN: We obj ect t o t hat and ask t hat
17 16: 53: 43 you f i ni sh t he deposi t i on t oday. And we' r e mor e t han
18 16: 53: 49 wi l l i ng t o go t al k t o t he at t or ney gener al ' s of f i ce and
19 16: 53: 51 see i f we can st ay i n her e f or mor e t i me.
20 16: 53: 51 MR. KAMERRER: Oh, t hen t hat ' s - -
21 16: 53: 53 MS. BESCHEN: Ot her wi se, we can - - our
22 16: 53: 55 of f i ce i s j ust upst ai r s, so i t shoul dn' t be. . .
23 16: 53: 59 MR. KAMERRER: Okay. That ' s f i ne. I t ' s
24 16: 54: 00 j ust i t ' s l i kel y t o t ake a consi der abl e di sassembl y
25 16: 54: 03 pr ocess her e f or what coul d be 20 mi nut es of quest i ons.
Page 218
1 16: 54: 07 Some of t hat of cour se depends on how l ong t he answer s
2 16: 54: 11 ar e, but I amt hi nki ng t hat I ' mt hat cl ose and I t hought
3 16: 54: 15 i t was absol ut e t hat we had t o be out of her e at 5.
4 16: 54: 18 That ' s what I ' mt r yi ng t o accompl i sh.
5 16: 54: 20 MS. BESCHEN: Why don' t you - - we go on t he
6 16: 54: 21 r ecor d and you can cont i nue goi ng wi t h quest i oni ng and
7 16: 54: 24 I ' l l have somebody check wi t h t hemand get t hat f i gur ed
8 16: 54: 27 out ?
9 16: 54: 27 MR. KAMERRER: Okay. Okay. We' r e on t he
10 16: 54: 29 r ecor d now.
11 16: 54: 29 MS. BESCHEN: Oh, we' r e st i l l on t he r ecor d?
12 16: 54: 31 Okay.
14 16: 55: 29 Q. Okay. Ready for a question?
15 16: 55: 32 A. I am.
16 16: 55: 33 Q. If you removed a hard drive from a computer that
17 16: 55: 39 contained law enforcement programs and files and didn't
18 16: 55: 47 remove those programs and files from that computer or
19 16: 55: 51 return that hard drive to its owner, the County, could
20 16: 56: 00 such a hard drive be inserted in another non-County
21 16: 56: 09 owned hard drive and access law enforcement websites or
22 16: 56: 13 law enforcement sites that otherwise are accessible by
23 16: 56: 19 police officers?
24 16: 56: 22 MS. BESCHEN: She sai d absol ut el y not , not
25 16: 56: 24 beyond 5. Nobody wi l l wai t t o hel p us.
Page 219
2 16: 56: 27 Q. Let me get an answer to that question.
3 16: 56: 30 A. Can -- if a hard drive were removed, can it be
4 16: 56: 34 put into another computer and used to access law
5 16: 56: 38 enforcement?
6 16: 56: 39 Q. Yes.
7 16: 56: 39 A. I don't think so.
8 16: 56: 41 Q. Why not?
9 16: 56: 42 A. I think it comes down to probably encryption
10 16: 56: 47 keys, probably comes down to specific login information.
11 16: 56: 52 I -- there's a lot of safeties and protocols built in
12 16: 56: 59 that I think prevent that from being used in any other
13 16: 57: 02 computer. I don't think it would work.
14 16: 57: 06 Q. If the person who had that hard drive and
15 16: 57: 09 installed it in a non-County owned computer had the
16 16: 57: 15 passwords to access those sites, could it be used for
17 16: 57: 19 that purpose?
18 16: 57: 20 A. My understanding is no. I've never tried it, so
19 16: 57: 26 I can't say for sure.
20 16: 57: 30 Q. Okay.
21 16: 57: 30 MR. KAMERRER: Al l r i ght . Let ' s go of f t he
22 16: 57: 32 r ecor d.
24 16: 57: 34 p. m.
Page 220
1 16: 57: 53 MR. KAMERRER: I ' mj ust goi ng t o st and on my
2 16: 58: 01 l ast posi t i on about f i ni shi ng t hi s deposi t i on at some
3 16: 58: 06 ot her t i me. And I under st and your obj ect i on
4 ( Si gnat ur e r eser ved. )
5 ( Deposi t i on adj our ned at 4: 58 p. m. )
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1 STATE OF WASHI NGTON )
) SS: C E R T I F I C A T E
2 COUNTY OF WHATCOM )
3
I , MELONI E D. RAI NEY, a Cer t i f i ed Cour t Repor t er
4 i n and f or t he St at e of Washi ngt on do her eby cer t i f y;
That t he f or egoi ng i s t r ue and cor r ect t o
5 t he best of my ski l l , abi l i t y, and knowl edge, t aken
on t he dat e and at t he t i me and pl ace as shown on
6 Page Two her et o;
That I amnot r el at ed t o any of t he par t i es
7 t o t hi s l i t i gat i on and have no i nt er est i n t he
out come of sai d l i t i gat i on;
8 Wi t ness my hand and seal t hi s 20t h day of
Febr uar y, 2014.
9
10
__________________________________
11 MELONI E D. RAI NEY, CCR, RPR
I N AND FOR THE STATE OF
12 WASHI NGTON, RESI DI NG I N
MARYSVI LLE
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1 UNI TED STATES DI STRI CT COURT
FOR THE WESTERN DI STRI CT OF WASHI NGTON
2 AT SEATTLE
______________________________________________________
3
PAUL MURPHY, t oget her )
4 wi t h hi s mar i t al communi t y, )
)
5 Pl ai nt i f f , )
)
6 vs. ) NO. CV13 727 J CC
)
7 WHATCOM COUNTY, WASHI NGTON, a )
8 COUNTY SHERI FF' S DEPARTMENT; )
9 hi s mar i t al communi t y, )
)
10 Def endant s. )
______________________________________________________
11
NOTI CE TO READ
12 ______________________________________________________
TO: Emi l y Beschen, At t or ney at Law
13 Law Of f i ce of Rober t But l er
103 E Hol l y St r eet , Sui t e 512
14 Bel l i ngham, WA 98225
15 Pl ease have PAUL MURPHY, Wi t ness cont act
our of f i ce t o make ar r angement s t o come i n t o r ead
16 and si gn hi s deposi t i on not i ng any er r or s t hat may have
been made i n t he t r anscr i pt . Thi s must be done wi t hi n
17 30 days f r omt he dat e of t hi s l et t er or t hr ee days pr i or
t o t r i al , pur suant t o Washi ngt on Repor t s 34A, Rul e ( e)
18 USC 28.
I f t he si gni ng does not t ake pl ace wi t hi n
19 t he speci f i ed t i me per i od, t he or i gi nal t r anscr i pt
wi l l be f i l ed wi t h t he quest i on at t or ney.
20 Your pr ompt at t ent i on t o t hi s mat t er i s
gr eat l y appr eci at ed. I f t her e ar e any quest i ons I
21 can assi st you wi t h, pl ease f eel f r ee t o cal l .
22 _________________________________
23 114 W. Magnol i a St . , Sui t e 400- 110
Bel l i ngham, WA 98225
24 360- 671- 6298
Febr uar y 24, 2014
25 CC: W. Dal e Kamer r er , Li z Gal l er y
Page 223
1 TO THE WI TNESS:
2 PLEASE READ YOUR DEPOSI TI ON CAREFULLY. On t hi s cor r ect i on
sheet make not es of any er r or s I have made. Pl ease si gn
3 t hi s sheet at t he bot t om, and r et ur n t hi s t o me at 114
West Magnol i a St r eet , Sui t e 400- 110, Bel l i ngham, WA 98225.
4 I f you have any quest i ons, pl ease f eel f r ee t o cal l me at
360- 671- 6298.
5 _______________________________________________________
page- l i ne cor r ect i on
6 _______________________________________________________
7
8
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10
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14
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23
Si gned and dat ed t hi s ____ day of ___________, 2014.
24
See: Wash. Repor t s 34A, __________________________
25 Rul e 30( e) USC 28 PAUL MURPHY
Page 224
1 UNI TED STATES DI STRI CT COURT
2 FOR THE WESTERN DI STRI CT OF WASHI NGTON
3 AT SEATTLE
______________________________________________________
4 PAUL MURPHY, t oget her )
wi t h hi s mar i t al communi t y, )
5 Pl ai nt i f f , )
)
6 vs. ) NO. CV13 727 J CC
)
7 WHATCOM COUNTY, WASHI NGTON, a )
8 COUNTY SHERI FF' S DEPARTMENT; )
9 hi s mar i t al communi t y, )
Def endant s. )
10 ______________________________________________________
RE: Deposi t i on of : PAUL MURPHY
11 Taken on: Febr uar y 4, 2014
Fi l ed on:
12 Pl ease be advi sed t hat t he above- r ef er enced deposi t i on
wi l l be f i l ed wi t h: W. Dal e Kr amer r er , At t or ney at Law
13 LAW, LYMAN, DANI EL,
KAMERRER & BOGDANOVI CH, P. S.
14 2674 RWJ ohnson Bl vd, SW
P. O. Box 11880
15 Tumwat er , WA 98512
16 _____ The Deponent wai ved si gnat ur e.
_____ The deposi t i on has been r ead and si gned by t he
17 Deponent .
_____ No changes have been made t o t he deposi t i on.
18 _____ The at t ached CORRECTI ONS sheet r ef l ect s t he
changes.
19 _____ The Deponent f ai l ed t o appear at our of f i ce or
not i f y us pur suant t o CR 26. 30( e) .
20 _____ The Deponent r ef used t o si gn t he deposi t i on.
_____ Ot her .
21
_________________________________
22 PATTI E LONG, OFFI CE ADMI NI STRATOR
23 114 W. Magnol i a St , Sui t e 400- 110
Bel l i ngham, WA 98225
24 ( 360) 671- 6298
25 CC: Emi l y Beschen, Li z Gal l er y

Paul Murphy, Former WCSO Deputy - Deposition Transcript (Federal) - Redacted

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Paul Murphy, Former WCSO Deputy - Deposition Transcript (Federal) - Redacted

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MURPHY v. PAUL PAUL MURPHY VOL.

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