The original post can be found at:

http://bjunews.com/2014/03/04/new-gothard-revelations-hint-at-bjus-ugly-history-of-abuse/
2. A J ames March 5, 2014 at 7:35 PM
I appreciate your perspective from your experiences. Ive read through them several
times so that I dont pick any unnecessary fights. This one though is where I have to
respectfully disagreeas to the degree of influence Van Gelderen, Sr./BJU had on each
other. Where above I said that Gothard/BJU relationship wasnt readily seen surface level
(from my years experience at least)this cannot be said of the VG/BJU relationship.
Just surface level information that is publicly known conveys solid influential ties. The
Van Gelderen and the Jones family were like apple pie and ice creamfundamentalism
and rulesfrench fries and ketchupamazing and grace When one thought Van
Gelderen, one also thought BJU. To say he was neither an official or being under control
of BJU is a dismissal that really made me question your full grasp of the situation. Peas in
a podLuigi and MarioBible Conference and offerings Everyone just KNEWIm
at a loss as to why you didnt realize it, or dont acknowledge it.
Please pardon the length. I think the following marks on a timeline (of many marks
available) here are important for gauging whether we dismiss BJU/Van Gelderen
influence with Gothard.
1) As Turk said: If being a board member of Bob Jones does not qualify as being an
officer of BJU, then Im not sure what does. The Executive Committee and then the
Board under them have and are the power at BJU.
2) FBF is fairly synonymous with BJUso goes the FBFI, so goes BJU and vice versa.
In 1961, the Fundamental Baptist Fellowship International called a meeting at Marquette
Manor, which resulted in the formation of Baptist World Mission. Pastor Augsburger
accepted the position as the first president and incorporated BWM in Illinois. Four years
later, Pastor Augsburger left the pastorate at Marquette Manor to become president of
Denver Baptist Bible College. In December 1966, Dr. Wayne Van Gelderen, Sr. assumed
the pastorate at Marquette Manor.
3) In November 1971, Bob Jones, Jr. and Bob Jones III were dropped from the
cooperating board of the The Sword to be replaced by Jerry Falwell and Curtis
Hutson.[31] In 1976, Jones, Ian Paisley, and Wayne Van Gelderen organized their own
World Congress of Fundamentalists in Edinburgh. This is as tight as tight can get,
Hanson.
4) 1980 Gothard happeningsso to dismiss VG away as just a pastorate at an
independent Baptist churchno, this simply wont do for objectivity.
5) http://minutemenministries.org/about/history/ (Jim VG)
In the summer of 1983 while Jim was youth pastor at the Marquette Manor Baptist
Church the decision was made to send out three teams. Jim stayed home and directed
things from afar while Tim Chevalier, Juan Moreno and John Van Gelderen led teams all
over the US. Marquette Manor financed the teams and lost $10,000 over the summer. Dr.
Van Gelderen, Sr., Jims dad and the pastor of MMBC, was glad to helped birth the
ministry, but knew the church could not sustain those kind of losses. He called Dr. Bob
Jones III and asked if Bob Jones University would be interested in having the teams
operate from there. Dr. Bob was glad for the call because there had been some talk about
starting something like this, but the consensus was that the Van Gelderens were starting
something and lets see how it is going to go. Well the Lord was in it and BJU became
the new home of the Minutemen Evangelistic Team. At the same time a new theme was
developed called The War. The teams were Army vs. Navy. The change was due to the
ministry becoming nationwide and there was a sense that a theme was needed that had
nationwide appeal. In 1998 the Minutemen Evangelistic Team became an independent
ministry. The Lord burdened Jim that his was the step that was needed. Bob Jones
University was extremely gracious to the ministry and assisted in their launching out. Jim
has a deep appreciation the key part BJU had in the development and nurturing of the
ministry.
6) 1997 Calvary Contender DR. VAN GELDERENS HOME-GOING
Fundamentalist leader Dr. Wayne Van Gelderen Sr. went home to be with his Lord
March 9. He is survived by five children. Of the three we have met, Jim and John are
evangelists and Wayne Jr. is a pastor. The memorial service was held March 13 in the
latters Falls Baptist Church, Menomonee Falls, Wis. , with Dr. Ed Nelson officiating
(assisted by Dr. Frank Bumpus). There were testimonies by his children, and friends such
as Dr. Bob Jones III. Dr. Van Gelderen pastored several churches, and for 27 years, the
historic Marquette Manor Baptist Church (Chicago area). A special tribute was held at
MMBC March 14, with MMBC Pastor Mark Simmons officiating. Dr. Van Gelderen
served on many fundamental boards, including: Bob Jones University, Baptist World
Mission, and Fundamental Baptist Fellowship.
The connection isnt quite so tight these days. Though, Wayne, Jr. still remains on FBFI
board http://fbfi.org/board-executive/ there has been tension/not so many warm fuzzies as
BJU loosens up with standards. Falls (VGJr. church) has begun their own College of
Ministry http://bcmedu.org/ The pics on the website are reminiscent of the BJU of old
still need your tried and true denim skirts, gals. Many years ago, the late Dr. Wayne Van
Gelderen, Sr. expressed his burden for a new fundamental college that would train
leaders for the local church through the local church. His son, Pastor Wayne Van
Gelderen, Jr., shared that burden, and, with the overwhelming support of the people of
Falls Baptist Church, established Baptist College of Ministry in the summer of 1998. In
a day when old-fashioned, conservative Bible Christianity and standards of holiness are
routinely belittled, Baptist College of Ministry and Theological Seminary stands ready to
help committed young people who have determined that the unchanging Word of God
must be proclaimed clearly and authoritatively in this present age. I see the line up for
FBFI speakers this year at Faith includes:
Steve Hankins
Mark Minnick
Clarence Sexton
John Vaughn
Wayne Van Gelderen
Joe Willis
This is a motley bunch of fundamentalists3 representing BJUs current shifting mode
(Minnick on the far right, Vaughn in the middle, Hankins on the left of that wee
spectrum), Sexton (KJV only, Sword, etc.), VG representing more of a traditional
BJUand I dont know who Willis is. Either VGJr. will shift over enough to not have to
sssssseparate, or he will have to speak up against the direction of the FBFI/BJU to be
consistent with clear fundamentalist views of the past. Its a little eerie to hear his daddy
which sounds so much like Jr. and a younger III.
http://www.greatpreachers.org/evangelicalism.html
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3. A J ames March 9, 2014 at 8:39 AM
Again, this link helps us here, too (page 10 onward).
http://www.pagepusher.com/view-book/AMatterOfBasicPrinciples
The team that came to help Gothard included Wood (VP) with Van Gelderen (board
member) and III (President) recommending McLario (board member). This was a joint
effort that was indeed BJU led.
We now see in this document that VanGelderens daughter also worked at Gothards site.
This was not some casual relationship, and whether BJU people ultimately removed
themselves from influence with Gothard taking back over is not some cause for
celebration. They did not expose Gothards teaching or his ways. It was a condemning
underreactionand some serious rotten fruit for us to be suspicious of.

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David Hanson March 5, 2014 at 2:27 PM
I didnt mention Bob Wood because when Dr. Van Gelderen related the Bill Gothards brother
incident to me, he never mentioned Bob Wood.


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1. A J ames March 5, 2014 at 8:24 PM
I am quite alarmed that you arent more open about distinguishing sheep from wolves. I
am concerned that you might not be wiling to weigh in potential motives.
The one that shocks me the most is your having known the Van Gelderens/Marquette.
You are beginning to strike me as one of those circle the wagon types Ive been hearing
about. Im trying hard to withhold final judgment. The Van Gelderens/Falls Baptist are
the perfect example of a power hungry churchthough conservative in some ways I
can appreciate, it was/is all about family power (just as people are concerned about BJU
and the overarching power of the Jones and McLario families). The VGs were in
complete control and gave the marching orders. Potentially a prime example of nepotism.
How could you miss it? This is based on fact from enough trusted people that I know that
have served there faithfullytried to be a positive influence in spite of itrespectfully
left to get away from the suffocating air in that type of church. Falls can do whatever they
want and how they want. People are free to worship and serve where they please. But it
does not help in the cause of truth to gloss over when our churches or leaders are as you
said less than perfect.
Every group has its chickens coming home to roost. There is no group that is beyond
needing accountability and housecleaning After typing all of this, I think we ought to be
more alert and prayerful concerning these comments that were made:
Gothard/BJU Alum: coercion and silencing of dissent is very much common between
the two. This leads naturally into downplaying of the inevitable scandals and ludicrous
attempts to deny they even happened.

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1. A J ames March 5, 2014 at 10:32 PM
Whoa. Im getting input from others saying Im the one not doing justice to
Falls/Van Gelderenthat Im being too nicejust when I was feeling guilty
about maybe being too mean. They say Van Gelderen had way more overtones of
Gothard style leadership/adherence/guilt trip tactics than BJU. That could be
added to the idea of VG being more sympathetic to the plight of Gothard.

2. David Hanson March 5, 2014 at 11:47 PM
A little history:
Wayne Van Gelderen, Jr. is the Pastor of Falls Baptist and was the founder of
Baptist College of Ministry with his brothers. Wayne Van Gelderen, Sr., was the
Pastor of Marquette Manor Church in Downers Grove which is close to
Gothards campus (in the early 90s when we were there Gothard sometimes
attended our Church in the morning service a van load of his students also
attended). Sr. passed away in early 1997 which is more than a year before BCM
opened. On the BCM history webpage, they state that Sr. was supportive of the
founding of BCM. Sr. left Marquette Manor in 1993, I believe, and we left in
1994 due to one of my many job transfers, and I never had a opportunity to talk
with him again as he moved to Florida and we moved to Texas. (So Sr. dealt with
Gothard and Jr. with Falls and BCM. In youro writing, I dont think this was
clear. I just realized that it may be a little muddier than this Jr. was an assistant
pastor under Sr. sometime before we were members at MMBC.)

3. A J ames March 9, 2014 at 8:54 AM
This link one more time:
http://www.pagepusher.com/view-book/AMatterOfBasicPrinciples (esp. page 10
onward)
And so, now that I know more than I did when I originally responded to this
postthis was not some casual relationship. Van Gelderen, III. Wood, McLario
were Gothards choice of help. They reprimanded the staff, quelled dissent,
moved the institution forwardand though Gothard was reinstated and there
seems to have been a distancing of BJU after thatwe now realize, that with as
much as they knew, that Gothards destructive teachings/leadership style were not
openly rebuked from the pulpit by BJU team.