Driscoll vs. Busch, Jan. 13, 2015

FAMILY COURT OF THE STATE OF DELAWARE
KENT COUNTY
ROOM 5
------------------------X
IN THE MATTER OF:
PATRICIA P. DRISCOLL,
Petitioner,
File No.:
CK14-02747
Vs.
Petition No.:
14-30621
KURT T. BUSCH,
Respondent.
------------------------X
Transcript of Proceedings
January 13, 2015
FAMILY COURT OF THE STATE OF DELAWARE
KENT COUNTY FAMILY COURT
400 Court Street
Dover, DE 19901
HONORABLE DAVID W. JONES,
Hearing Officer
The owner of this transcript will not copy, alter, transfer or

otherwise use in an inappropriate manner.
Inappropriate use
includes, but is not limited to, using this transcript or the
content of this transcript for the purpose of harassment,
embarrassment, entertainment, inflicting emotional distress,
exploitation, blackmail, loss of employment, and/or commercial
gain.
INDEX
W I T N E S S E
PETITIONER:
WITNESS
J. Wood
DIRECT
152
RESPONDENT:
WITNESS
K. Busch
R. Sniffen
DIRECT
54
CROSS
168
CROSS
4
134
RE
DIRECT
RE
CROSS
v.
RE
DIRECT
38,41
149
RE
CROSS
49
v.
D.
D.
39
E X H I B I T S
PETITIONER:
IDENTIFICATION
DESCRIPTION
I. D.
IN EV.
RESPONDENT:
IDENTIFICATION
DESCRIPTION
I. D.
IN EV.
R20
Text messages between P. Driscoll

and R. Stiffen
Ubiqus/Nation-Wide Reporting & Convention Coverage

22 Cortlandt Street- Suite 802, New York, NY 10007
Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
115
PROCEEDINGS
THE CLERK:
All rise.
Family Court State of
Delaware and - - now in session.
Jones presiding in the matter of Driscoll versus Busch.
Pl.ease .be seated in the courtroom.
MR. RUSTY HARDIN:
THE COURT:
MS. MCNEICE:
THE COURT:
The Honorable David
Good morning, Your Honor.
Good everyone.
Good morning, Your Honor.
I apologize for the delay in
getting before you today.
I had an emergency custody
10
matter that I had to deal with before we could reconvene
11
our hearing.
12
was on the stand.
13
obviously you're still under oath.
When we left yesterday evening, Mr. Busch

Mr. Busch was on the stand.
14
MS. MCNEICE:
15
K U R T
16
sworn, testified as follows:
17
CROSS EXAMINATION
18
BY MS. CAROLYN MCNEICE
Sir,
And, Ms. McNeice.
Yes, thank you.
B U S C H, having been first duly
19
Q:
Good morning, Mr. Busch.
20
A:
Good morning.
21
Q:
You're here today to complete your testimony.
22
Is
there any reason why you can't testify at this time?
23
A:
There is not.
24
Q:
Okay.
Are you under any medication or the influence

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
CROSS EXAMINATION OF K. BUSCH BY C. MCNEICE
of any other substances?
A:
No, rna' am.
Q:
Okay.
THE COURT:
microphone.
I couldn't hear you.
MS. MCNEICE:
MR. HARDIN:
MS. MCNEICE:
May I ask that you use the
I'm sorry, move it?

Just make sure you speak into it.
Use it, okay.
Sorry.
[eros stalk]
Q:
10
You heard testimony and you've admitted yourself
11
that 2011 was a dreadful year for you with regard to your
12
drinking, correct?
13
A:
It was a rough year.
14
Q:
Rough year, okay.
There was testimony from your
15
assistant that this was a year that you were going through an
16
emotion upheaval with your divorce, starting a new
17
relationship and some changes in your professional career
18
also.
19
20
21
22
23
24
A:
3 percent of the time doesn't define somebody 100
percent of the time.
Q:
I appreciate that.
3 percent of your life was in
2011 is that what you're saying?
A:
I would say that there's 365 days in 2011 and 3
percent of those days might have included some of the

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
testimony that we've heard about the drinking.
Q:
So you were drinking on how many days?
A:
I don't know the math off hand.
Q:
[interposing] But you figured it was 3 percent.
A:
3 percent of 365, yeah.
Q:
Okay.
3 percent--
Well 10 percent would be 36 so, 10 percent of
that would 3.6 days?
A:
It sounds about right.
Q:
You drank on 3.6 days--
10
A:
That's 1 percent, yeah.
11
Q:
Okay.
12
A:
Okay.
13
Q:
Okay.
14
So less than 10, mm-hmm.
3 percent would be 9 days.
Do you recall the incident in Chicago that
your secretary talked about yesterday?
15
A:
Which incident?
16
Q:
The incident with the Chicago Cubs game where you
17
had hit her and had to be--
18
MR. HARDIN:
19
excuse me.
20
Excuse me.
21
Q:
23
of the area.
[interposing] Your Honor, I--
Go ahead finish your question I'm sorry.
THE COURT:
22
24
Mm-hmm.
and had to be placed into a vehicle and taken out
THE COURT:
Mr. Hardin?

Phone: 212-346~6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
MR. HARDIN:
The relevance of this as the Court
has pointed out is not in the petition.
awful lot of talk about it.
to it.
don't think it's more--longer relevant.
There's been an
We initially didn't object
We've tried to address these issues.
THE COURT:
Okay.
I just
The relevance objection is
overruled.
The witness gave character testimony that Mr.
Busch would not be physically aggressive towards others
and then testified that this incident occurred wherein
10
she described an act of physically aggression by Mr.
11
Busch.
12
you.
So I think he can be questioned about it.
13
14
15
MS. MCNEICE:
Q:
Thank you.
Do you recall this incident that your secretary was
talking about?
16
A:
I recall the incident.
17
Q:
Okay.
18
your point?
So you were drunk but not that drunk, is that
19
A:
I had been drinking that evening.
20
Q:
Okay.
Well your secretary said that you had so--but
21
she seemed to believe that it was only under those
22
circumstances that you would be--hit another person.
23
you agree with me that's what she said?
24
Thank
A:
No, that's not what she said.

22 Cortlandt Street - Suite 802, New York, NY 10007
Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
Would
Q:
Okay.
A:
She said that I took a swing at her.
Q:
Okay.
But she seemed to think that that came about
because,.. :y;cm,,,:;w:ere . .drunk.

A:
What was your recollection of what she said?
We had been drinking because we were at a ballgame.
And we were all getting into a cab together.
Q:
Okay.
So you weren't drunk?
A:
I said I was drinking.
Q:
No, I asked you were you drunk,
10
A:
I was drunk.
11
Q:
Okay.
sir?
But you weren't drunk when you ripped off the
12
rearview mirror following the New Hampshire race in September
13
of 2014?
14
A:
No, ma'am.
15
Q:
I'm going to go back and talk about some of the
16
things that we discussed prior to the Christmas break.
You
17
indicated prior to the Christmas break when you were
18
testifying that you did have some contact professionally with
19
the Armed Forces Foundation.
20
A:
Yes, ma'am.
21
Q:
Do you still have that professional contact with
23
A:
I do not.
24
Q:
Do you know that that's still listed on your bio?
22
them?

Phone: 212-346-6666 * Fax: 888-412-3655
A:
claims.
Q:
that
Everything has been frozen due to the criminal
So you haven't made any changes to any of those--
doca:unexrt.~:
A:
No, ma'am.
Q:
On September 26th when Patricia and Houston entered
your motorhome, did you know that she had talked to your
mother earlier that week?
A:
I did not.
10
Q:
Okay.
11
Would you have been upset with her if you had
known that at that time?
With Patricia at that time?
12
A:
No I wouldn't have.
13
Q:
Okay.
14
I would have expected it.
Had she ever talked to your mother before
about her concerns for you?
15
A:
Plenty of times.
16
Q:
Okay.
Had you talked to your mother about your
17
mother's concerns for your behavior, your drinking, your
18
anger?
19
A:
Of course.
20
Q:
Okay.
In 2011 when you left the Penske Racing Team,
21
you indicated that you were going to see a sports
22
psychologist.
23
24
A:
Did you see that person, sir?
I had been seeing him prior to that split with that
race team.
Phone: 212-346-6666 * Fax: 888-412-3655
Q:
recall?
A:
Dr. Lefkowitz.
Q:
Okay.
A:
I would say nine months.
Q:
Did this physician ever recommend any medication or
Okay.
And how long did you see this person?
MR. HARDIN:
Excuse me, Judge.
This is really
irrelevant and inappropriate I think.
10
11
And what was that individual's name if you
prescribe any medication for you?
8
9
THE COURT:
Okay.
Objection as to relevance,
Ms. McNeice?
MS. MCNEICE:
12
I would suggest it is relevant
13
particularly to the interaction of the parties and about
14
what my client knew about his behavior.
15
provides a foundation for the concerns that she expressed
16
to him on September 26th and then even in the text that
17
Mr. Busch sent to her afterwards.
18
19
20
21
THE COURT:
Certainly it
I'll allow the witness to answer
the questions.
Q:
Did that physiciart prescribe--or this person
prescribe any medication for you?
22
A:
He did.
23
Q:
Okay.
24
A:
I don't remember the name of it.
What was that medication?

I do remember that

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
my body felt weird and I don't like the way that it made my
mind focus during the races.
Q:
Okay.
A:
We changed it afterwards.
I said--I apologize.
THE COURT:
So this is a psychologist who
prescribed medications for you?
A:
I can't remember if it was a psychologist,
physiologist, sports management guy, I can't remember his
official title.
10
THE COURT:
Okay, all right.
Because
11
ordinarily you have to be a medical doctor to prescribe
12
or I guess in some states in events there's a
13
practitioner or a psychiatric nurse practitioner that
14
prescribes.
15
and clarify.
16
Q:
17
Okay.
Okay thank you, sir.
I just wanted to try
So you did change to a different medication
is that what you said?
18
A:
I actually changed doctors.
19
Q:
Okay.
20
A:
Similar to Good Will Hunting, you have to find the
21
right counselor that can connect with you first.
22
understood my sport and one that understood me.
23
Q:
Okay.
24
A:
Dr. Williamson.
One that
So what was this next doctor's name?

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
10
11
1
2
Q:
And that physician did he--or that person, that
professional, did he prescribe some medication for you?

A:
He did.
MR. HARDIN:
'I think going to this-- I'm going
to object again to the :relevance of this, Your Honor.
The different doctors he's seen?
THE COURT:
MR. HARDIN:
Mm-hmm.
I mean can I put her on the stand
and ask her the different doctors she's been too?
10
THE COURT:
Well I think that this is relevant
11
because if it goes to Mr. Busch's mental state.
12
Ultimately if we get to the point of his mental health
13
state or his mental state on the occasion of the alleged
14
incidents whether or not there was a diagnosis that might
15
explain his conduct, it certainly is relevant.
16
objection is overruled.
17
MS. MCNEICE:
And the
Thank you.
18
Q:
Did this professional prescribe medication for you?
19
A:
Yes, ma'am.
20
Q:
Okay.
21
A:
Yes I did.
22
Q:
How long did you take that medication?
23
A:
I took it for four months.
24
Q:
And do you recall the name of that medication?
And did you take it?

Phone: 212-346~6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
A:
I do not.
Q:
Okay.
If I said the name Wellbutrin to you does
that refresh your memory?
A:
It sounds familiar, mm-hmm.
Q:
Okay.
6
7
Did you take that?

MR. HARDIN:
question.
I'm sorry I couldn't hear your
Do you mind repeating?
MS. MCNEICE:
MR. HARDIN:
10
I asked him if--with Wellbutrin.

You need to speak into the
microphone.
11
THE COURT:
It is necessary that everyone be
12
able to hear.
13
please address the Court and the Court will make sure
14
that you're able.
15
Q:
16
And, Mr. Hardin, if you can't hear just
You may continue, Ms. McNeice.
I asked you if it was Wellbutrin and you said you
recalled that name.
17
A:
That sounds familiar.
18
Q:
And you said you took it for four months.
19
A:
Yes, ma'am.
20
Q:
Do you recall the period of time, the specific
21
Uh-huh.
months in which you took that medication?
22
A:
It would have been the fall of 2012.
23
Q:
Okay.
24
12
And do you recall why you stopped taking it
after four months?

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
A:
13
Because again I didn't like the way that my body
felt with it when I was focused on my racing.
And what's
unique about this whole questioning is that I took myself off
the medllie-ation and at the beginning of 2013 I remember
countless times when people said wow, you're really doing
great, you're turned the corner, we're proud of you, you know,
you hit rock bottom a couple years back and you're working
your way back up.
was on medicine and yet I wasn't.
And a few people close to me knew that I
10
Q:
Okay.
11
A:
And that was back in January when I took myself off
12
of it and then that's--about four months went by and that's
13
when I notified my doctor and as well as Ms. Driscoll that I
14
wasn't on the medicine.
15
proud of me.
16
Q:
Okay.
And they were all very surprised and
So you took the medication for four months,
17
went off the medication but didn't tell anyone for four more
18
months.
19
A:
That was my statement exactly.
20
Q:
Okay.
21
Is that your statement?
And you said people said to you you've turned
the corner, what corner is that, sir?
22
A:
The rock bottom corner.
23
Q:
What rock bottom corner?
24
A:
Where my business life and my personal life were in

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
shambles and I got that turned all around.
2
3
14
Q:
Good.
Do you recall the testimony of the motor
coach driver Mr. Domcheff?
A:.;
Yes, rna' am.
Q:
You were in the courtroom when he testified correct?
A:
Yes, ma'am.
Q:
Okay.
A:
Yes, rna' am.
10
Q:
And have you spoken with him recently?
11
A:
I have.
12
Q:
Do you recall that when he testified he indicated
Is he still your motor coach driver at this
time?
13
that he thought that the week before the New Hampshire race
14
that you and Ms. Driscoll had been, as he described, at the
15
border?
16
A:
I believe he described her at the border.
17
Q:
Okay.
18
had both been at the border.
19
20
21
It was my understanding that he said that you
MR. HARDIN:
Objection.
That's not the
testimony.
THE COURT:
Yeah as I recall the testimony,
22
believe the witness testified that he was told by Ms.
23
Driscoll of an event where she had been at the border and
24
had sustained some injury of some sort at that border.

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15
And that Ms. Driscoll had alleged that Mr. Busch had been
with her on an operation, either that operation or
another operation at the border, allegedly capturing
illegal aliens.
MS. MCNEICE:
THE COURT:
MS~
THE COURT:
11
knowledge.
12
him.
13
15
16
MCNEICE:
I understood him to say that they
had both been at this border.
10
14
That's my understanding of the
testimony.
I apologize.
His testimony was what Ms. Driscoll had told
MS. MCNEICE:
Q:
Okay.
Mr. Domcheff had no personal
Thank you.
Do you recall where you were the week before
the New Hampshire race?

A:
The race before that would have been Chicagoland
17
Speedway.
The start of the chase, the playoffs in NASCAR.
18
And at that time all focus of mine is directed at the race
19
team and the race tracks.
20
being on the border or goofing off that week.
There would be zero chance of me
21
Q:
The week before the New Hampshire race?
22
A:
Yes, rna' am.
23
Q:
Okay.
24
A:
Whether it was in Charlotte with the race team to
Where did you spend the week?

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16
make sure that we had all of our upcoming setups and
preliminary planning set forth for New Hampshire and Dover--
those would have been the first segments of the chase.
you try to get all your pre-planning done.
because I knew I was on a holiday vacation the week after
Loudon.
Q:
When was Loudon?
A:
The New Hampshire race, September 21st was that
10
Q:
Okay.
11
A:
Yes.
12
13
And
And I did that
race.
So you were planning to go away?
It was to get my homework done so that I could
go out and play.

Q:
Good theory.
Okay.
I'm continuing to check my
14
notes for other comments that you made.
When we spoke before
15
Christmas, sir, you outlined what you recalled about the
16
incident of September 26th.
17
mediocre performance and that you were upset that evening.
You said that you had had a
18
A:
Yes, ma'am.
19
Q:
Had you in fact yelled at any of your team members
20
21
after this mediocre performance?

A:
No.
I remember sitting there in the lounge, the
22
hall or the office area, of the garage for our race team with
23
my head between my knees going 22nd is pretty rough, we'll
24
have our work cut out for us.
We didn't need to qualify

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17
quarterly for this race with our backs up against the wall.
Q:
Okay.
And you indicated further that you had
watched this movie and the movie brought out an emotion in you
that made you feel that you needed to take a look at where you
were and where you were going, correct?
A:
Yes, ma'am.
Q:
Okay.
You found some analogy bet.ween the movie and
your personal life, correct?
A:
Yes, ma'am.
10
Q:
All right.
11
A:
Yes, ma'am.
12
Q:
Excuse me.
13
Then you went to bed--
There had been some texting between you
and Ms. Driscoll at this point?
14
A:
Yes.
15
Q:
Okay.
And we have that information on the
16
Plaintiff's exhibits.
You indicated that you went to bed, you
17
were laying in bed or maybe you were lying in bed--I'm never
18
sure what the word is.
19
asleep is what you told us.
But you were--and then you had fallen
20
A:
Yes, ma'am, that's correct.
21
Q:
And Patricia walked in with Houston.
22
A:
Yes, ma'am.
23
Q:
Okay.
24
Do you recall Houston hugging you when he got
there?
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18
A:
He might have.
Q:
Okay.
essentially.
that she had some spies or had some ability to watch what you
were doing?
A:
That was later in the conversation--
Q:
Okay.
A:
Q:
It might have come up?
10
A:
But that's when I felt uncomfortable with her being
You said you told Patricia to leave
You also told her apparently that you thought
when that reference might have come up.
11
there knowing that she tapped into my ADT at my house to check
12
the camera movement during that week.
13
Q:
14
before?
15
A:
I had not.
16
Q:
And this is the house in North Carolina?
17
A:
Yes, ma'am.
18
Q:
Okay.
Okay.
But you hadn't been at your house that week
You said that you got up twice and took
19
Houston back to watch the TV.
20
room again and said to Patricia you have to leave after the
21
first incident, correct?
22
A:
Yes, ma'am.
23
Q:
Okay.
24
And that you then reentered the
First walking of Houston.
And then you took him out a second time but
she stayed in the room this time and that's when you carne back
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19
and cupped her cheeks.
A:
Yes, ma'am.
Q:
I want you to help me see how the room is lined up.

.
MS. MCNEICE:
~,
Your Honor, may the witness have
the Respondent's exhibit that related to the drawing that
he made on the--
THE COURT:
MS. MCNEICE:
THE COURT:
10
Busch?
11
Q:
12
That's Respondent's 15.

-- schematic of the-Do you want to provide that to Mr.
You have before you, Mr. Busch, the schematic of the
interior of the motor home.
13
A:
Yes, ma'am, that's what I have.
14
Q:
It's been marked as an exhibit and you're referring
15
to that now.
16
MS. MCNEICE:
17
THE COURT:
18
Q:
May I approach, Your Honor?

Sure.
Follow with me if you will, sir, the format you
19
might have used as you walked Houston the second time from
20
your bed back to the front of your motorhome.
21
22
A:
The format that I would have used would have been to
get out of the left side of the bed--
23
Q:
Yes.
24
A:
-- and walk to the foot of the bed--

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
Q:
20
Excuse me for one second.

MS. MCNEICE:
Can you hear?
Thank you.
Q:
Go ahead.
A:
Walk by the foot of the bed to grab Houston and take
6
7
him to the front to put him on the sleeper sofa.

Q:
Okay.
All right so Houston would have been standing
at the foot of the bed, sir?
A:
He was in this region next to Ms. Driscoll.
Q:
Okay.
10
and K.
And I note that this is where you have a P
Is that a K?
11
A:
Yes, ma'am.
12
Q:
And those seemed to be circled and there's a wall
13
where the P is standing and the bed is where the K is?
14
A:
Yes, ma'am.
15
Q:
And they're touching.
16
A:
The circles.
17
Q:
Okay.
18
Thank you.
A:
Yes, ma'am.
20
Q:
All right.
22
23
24
So you took Houston to the
sleeper sofa and then you walked back yourself, correct?
19
21
And they're touching.
Sir, what didn't you get back into the
bed on the side of the bed that's closest to the door?

A:
That's not my side of the bed.
I sleep on the left
side of the bed.

Q:
I understand.
So you walked around the bed, is that

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
correct?
2
3
A:
Yes, ma'am.
And got into the open side of the bed
where the sheets were folded down.
Q:
Okay.
A:
Yes, ma'am.
Q:
Okay.
A:
Yes, ma'am.
Q:
And this is at the time when you touched her face
With your intent of getting back into bed.
And Patricia was standing there.
correct?
10
11
A:
Okay so the second time now, mm-hmm.
The second
time of walking back by her.
12
Q:
Oh okay.
13
A:
[interposing] The first time to put Houston in the
14
21
Because you had walked by her--
front.
15
Q:
During--the first time you took Houston out there or
16
as an attempt to get out of the bed and go back for the second
17
trip?
18
A:
Both times that I put Houston in the front.
19
Q:
Okay.
And while you are coming around the foot of
20
the bed onto your side of the bed, this left, it's at this
21
point that you walked past Patricia and turned and put your
22
hands on her face correct?
23
A:
That's where I stopped and cupped her cheeks.
24
Q:
Okay.
Is that putting your hands on her face?

Phone: 212-346-6666 * Fax: 888-412-3655
A:
I suppose it is.
Q:
Okay.
How long did you leave your hands on her
face, sir?
A:
Approximately two seconds.
Q:
Okay.
And did you tilt her head back at all while
you had your hands on her face?
A:
I may have but her body was up against the wall.
Q:
Okay.
10
THE COURT:
Do you want this back?

If you're going to go back to the
podium she wants that back.
12
13
Thank you.
MS. MCNEICE:
11
22
MS. MCNEICE:
Q:
Okay.
I understand.
Thank you.
Sir, when we first talked in December about this
14
incident you used the expression that you came up to her,
15
stood face to face and your expression was I took my hands and
16
cupped her cheeks, looked her eye to eye.
17
characterize the incident?
18
A:
Yes, ma'am.
19
Q:
Okay.
20
Does that
And you were standing this whole time,
correct?
21
A:
Yes, ma'am.
22
Q:
Okay.
23
eye to eye?
24
A:
Did you tell the police that you looked her
Yes, rna' am.

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
23
Q:
cheeks?
A:
Yes, rna' am.
Q:
Do you recall telling the police anything else about
5
6
And did you tell the police that you cupped her
the time that you had your hands on her face?
A:
That I cupped her cheeks, I looked her eye to eye
and I told her she needed to leave.
Q:
police?
10
A:
Yes.
11
Q:
Do you recall when you gave this statement to the--
Is that the extent of the comments you made to the
12
this is the Dover Police we're talking about.
13
when you gave that statement to the police?
14
15
16
17
A:
Do you recall
It was within a few weeks of them calling.
I was
able to make it out here as soon as possible.

Q:
Okay.
And I take it you were sober during this
interview.
18
A:
Yes, ma'am.
19
Q:
You weren't under arrest, correct?
20
A:
No, ma'am.
21
Q:
Fully voluntary for you to come to Dover and talk to
22
the police.
23
A:
Absolutely.
24
Q:
You were accompanied by an attorney?

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
A:
Yes, ma'am.
Q:
Was that Mr. Liguori?
A:
Yes, Mr. Liguori was there.
Q:
A:
Yes, ma'am.
Q:
Who else was with you?
A:
Mr. Hardin.
Q:
Were they both present while you were giving the
'.:~b.o.dy
.else with you?
interview?
10
A:
Yes they were.
11
Q:
I think I asked you this.
12
13
Voluntary conversation
with the police?
A:
Yes, absolutely.
When Detective Wood called me on
14
my phone I picked it up and said that I would be happy to
15
answer any questions that he had.
16
Q:
Okay.
17
A:
And to fully cooperate.
18
Q:
Okay.
19
recall?
20
A:
I'd say 30 minutes.
21
Q:
Okay.
22
How long did your interview last if you
Did he tell you whether or not it was
recorded?
23
A:
Yes.
24
Q:
Was it recorded, sir?

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
24
25
A:
Yes, rna' am.
Q:
Okay.
After Patricia left the motor coach on the
evening of September 26th, you had no further contact with her
that wee:kend# ... correct?
A:
No, ma'am.
Q:
No it's not correct or no you had no contact with
A:
No contact.
Q:
Okay.
10
11
12
her?
Your next--well excuse me, you did have
contact with her when you were texting her about the custody-A:
[interposing] I was going to ask you to define
contact.
13
Q:
Thank you.
14
A:
Mm-hmm.
15
Q:
-- I'll support you for the custody.
16
17
So you texted her about this is it--
What did you
mean by support?
A:
That my love for Houston meant that I was there to
18
support her custody case if she was to separate amicably.
19
I knew she was going to fabricate a story and draw us here.
20
And so that text was to let her know I was extending an olive
21
branch.
22
Q:
23
24
Okay.
But then no further contact until October
5th, correct?
A:
That's correct.
Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
But
26
1
2
Q:
5th.
And you initiated the next set of texts on October
Do you recall that?
A:
I may have.
Q:
Prior to that had you contacted Mark Dycio?
Prior
to October 5th when you contacted Patricia.
A:
I can't remember the timeline.
Q:
Okay.
A:
Yes I do recall.
Q:
Why?
10
A:
Because that's who I knew she'd go to.
11
Q:
So that meant you wanted to go to him also?
12
A:
I knew she'd go to him as a friend as well as--
13
Q:
[interposing] Okay.
14
A:
-- for legal advice.
15
Q:
Okay.
16
A:
And she has a history of putting lawyers on
Do you recall why you contacted Mark Dycio?
17
retainers just to hold them.
And so I was checking in with
18
him because of what I had heard she had done.
19
Q:
What day was that, sir?
20
A:
I go by race weekends.
21
22
23
24
It's hard to remember.
This
was Kansas race weekend, somewhere around that October date.

Q:
Okay.
Would that have been the beginning--the first
week in October, sir?
A:
That sounds correct.

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27
1
2
Q:
Okay.
Would it have been exactly the Friday
following the incident on September 26th?
A:
Sounds around that time.
Q:
But when you contacted Mr. Dycio what did you find
A:
He found out that the only person that usually wins
5
6
out?
in these situations is the lawyers.

THE COURT:
8
9
10
The question, sir, is what you
found out when you talked to Mr. Dycio.

A:
Oh what did I find out?

THE COURT:
11
Mm-hmm.
12
A:
Oh that Ms. Driscoll had retained Mark Dycio.
13
Q:
Okay.
14
But you hadn't contacted him to represent
you, is that your statement?
15
A:
That is my statement.
16
Q:
Okay.
17
You only contact-THE COURT:
[interposing] Well my understanding
18
of the testimony is that Mr. Busch is saying that he was
19
attempting to contact Mr. Dycio to represent him but that
20
Ms. Driscoll had already retained Mr. Dycio and therefore
21
Mr. Dycio wasn't eligible to represent Mr. Busch.
22
that a fair characterization of what you indicated?
23
A:
24
It's very close.

THE COURT:
Okay.

Phone: 212-346-6666 * Fax: 888-412-3655
Is
28
A:
At time I was contacting Mark Dycio to check the
temperature on where Ms. Driscoll was headed with what we
wanted to do to exchange our belongings.
in which house and to amicably separate as a couple.
Q:
Okay.
Who had what items
And in fact the correspondence we have
between Mr. Dycio and your attorney Mr. Copanegro [phonetic]
indicated that she was also interested in dividing the
property, coming to an amicable resolution of these matters,
correct?
10
A:
Absolutely.
11
Q:
Okay.
12
13
14
With regard to your property, do you still
have property at the Ellicott City home?
A:
There's some suits, golf clubs and a vehicle that
now has been picked up.
15
Q:
The vehicle has now been removed, correct?
16
A:
Yes my lawyer just contacted you I believe.
17
Q:
He did.
18
A:
Great.
19
Q:
And how about Patricia's items?
20
Are they still in
the North Carolina home?
21
A:
I have packed them up and put them in storage.
22
Q:
In North Carolina?
23
A:
Yes, ma'am.
24
Q:
Okay.
How about the other property division?

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
The
North Carolina LLC, has that been dissolved?
A:
No it has not.
Q:
Okay.
29
So her home is still in this legal entity of
some sort.
A:
Yes, ma'am.
THE COURT:
Sir, just so that I can be clear.
If you understand it because there seems to have been a
number of different references to the LLC being involved
with Ms. Driscoll's home in a number of different ways.
10
A:
Mm-hmm.
THE COURT:
11
The Court's understanding based on
12
the testimony that I've heard thus far is that the LLC
13
essentially co-signer guaranteed Ms. Driscoll's mortgage
14
on the residence.
15
A:
16
Is that correct?
Yes, Your Honor.

THE COURT:
On her residence.
Okay.
So the LLC isn't the owner
17
of the home--isn't the mortgagee on the home, the LLC is
18
the co-signer on the home.
19
Q:
20
bank owns the house.
21
22
A:
Mm-hmm.
that I guaranteed.
THE COURT:
loan.
Obviously the
So the LLC operates the loan--
THE COURT:
23
24
The LLC is in control of the home.
Okay.
So the LLC guaranteed the
The deed to the home is not in the LLC's name or

Phone: 212-346-6666 * Fax: 888-412-3655
is it is Ms. Driscoll's name?
A:
Do you know?
I would assume the deed is in Ms. Driscoll's name.
30
THE COURT:
All right, thank you.
THE COURT:
That clarifies things.
A:
Q:
So you still have that matter to divide?
A:
Yes, that's the only piece of paperwork between the
8
9
10
two of us.
Q:
Okay.
You never did purchase any other real estate
to place in the LLC correct?
11
A:
No, ma'am.
12
Q:
Did you look at real estate to place in the LLC?
13
A:
We would Google search some things here and there.
14
Q:
Okay.
Sir, at the time we spoke in December you
15
indicated that you had a distant relationship with Houston's
16
father.
17
A:
Yes, ma'am.
18
Q:
How would you describe your relationship today, sir?
19
A:
Much better.
20
Q:
Why is that?
21
A:
He now feels free to reach out to me because he's
22
23
24
not being controlled by Ms. Driscoll.

Q:
Okay.
And is it safe to say that in the past Mr.
Hermanstorfer didn't even want you around at the exchanges for

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31
Houston?
A:
That's safe to say, uh-huh.
Q:
Okay.
4
5
MS. MCNEICE:
Excuse me, Your Honor.
I just
want to brief--
6
7
Let's look at your testimony from yesterday.
THE COURT:
Q:
No problem, take your time.
You testified that when you first met Ms. Driscoll
you had an opportunity to tour Fort Bragg.
A:
Yes, rna' am.
10
Q:
Was that during 2011 if you recall?
11
A:
I believe so.
12
Q:
And in fact you used the expression red carpet, what
13
14
2010, 2011.
did that mean to you?
A:
What that meant to me was since I brought autograph
15
cards with me, which would be NASCAR pictures that I handed
16
out to the different service members when I was there, that
17
they took me to special areas that civilians wouldn't normally
18
see on a standard tour.
19
Q:
Okay.
20
A:
And so it was nice to be able to see nice--back
21
behind the scenes items and the machinery, even went into the
22
mechanics shop where they work on a lot of the vehicles.
23
I got to shake hands with the service members that were
24
turning wrenches on vehicles.

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
And
Q:
Okay.
THE COURT:
that tour?
A:
Sir, was Ms. Driscoll with you on
Yes, Your Honor.
THE COURT:
been arranged by someone else?
A:
friend of mine.
THE COURT:
10
12
And had she arranged it or it had
It had been arranged by her as well as another
11
Okay thank you.
MS. MCNEICE:
Q:
You may continue.
Thank you.
Do you recall the rank of the individual that gave
you this tour?
13
A:
I do not.
14
Q:
Did you ever have an opportunity to tour any other
15
32
military installations?
16
A:
Yes, ma'am.
17
Q:
Where?
18
A:
Oh wow.
19
Q:
With Ms. Driscoll?
20
A:
On most occasions.
21
Q:
Mm-hmm.
22
A:
I've done work with the Paralyzed Veterans of
Dozens.
23
America, I've done work with Operation Home Front, I've done
24
work with the USO, Wounded Warriors--so it was very fulfilling

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
to meet military families and members that needed to let
somebody know that we cared about them.
Q:
Okay.
A:
The majority of them were but some of those other
And were these also set up by Ms. Driscoll?
foundations did work with them.

That was part of your work with the Armed Forces
Q:
Foundation?
A:
That was part of my work with the military.
Q:
Okay.
Now getting back to the matter of Mark Dycio,
10
did you ever offer to fly up to talk to him about resolving
11
some of these matters?
12
13
A:
Yeah I offered to come and meet him down in
Virginia.
14
Q:
At his office in Virginia?
15
A:
Whether it was his office or a spot for lunch.
16
Q:
Okay.
17
18
19
20
21
What did you hope to accomplish at that
meeting?
A:
Just an understanding on where Patricia thought the
relationship was and what he could do for the situation.

Q:
But then you changed your mind and did not come for
that meeting, sir, is that right?
22
A:
Yes I did change my mind.
23
Q:
Okay.
24
33
Sir, during the week prior to the incident in
Dover, you indicated that you stayed with a friend in the

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34
Boston area.
A:
Yes, ma'am.
Q:
But you again did appear later in the week, I
believe it was-Thursday, for an interview on television.
A:
Yes, ma'am.
Q:
Was this the interview that you worked with the
gentleman on the Weather Channel?
A:
Yes, ma'am.
Q:
Okay.
And at that time did you have an opportunity
10
to see the vehicle that you had been driving in the New
11
Hampshire area and drove to the Boston airport?
12
A:
No, ma'am.
13
Q:
Okay.
14
Did you speak with Ms. Driscoll's assistant
Matthew Ballard?
15
A:
Yes.
16
Q:
Okay.
17
A:
Absolutely not.
18
Q:
Have you ever offered him a job?
19
A:
Absolutely not.
20
Q:
Okay.
21
22
Did you offer him a job at that time?
Did you know a lot of her assistants at the
Armed Forces Foundation?

A:
I knew the employees.
There were a lot of interns
23
that came in and out but I didn't know their names.
24
knew most of her employees.

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
But I
And were you ever at her office at the Armed Forces
Q:
Foundation?
A:
Yes, ma'am.
Q:
.How many times?
A:
Too many to name or to number.
It was like a frat
house down there.
lot for our service members and those were the only friends
that she would allow me to have.
All her boys worked really hard and did a
Q:
You had friends at the racetrack correct?
10
A:
Yes, ma'am.
11
Q:
Okay.
12
Did you ever call yourself a sort of
unofficial vice president of the Armed Forces Foundation?
13
A:
In sarcastic tones, yeah sure.
14
Q:
Okay.
16
A:
At the foundation.
17
Q:
18
A:
Yes, ma'am.
19
Q:
Were you satisfied with your performance at the Al
15
20
So you would joke with the individuals at
the--
at the foundation, sir?
Roker Weather Channel interview?
21
A:
I was.
22
Q:
Good.
23
24
35
Okay.
THE COURT:
So just for clarification purposes
was Mr. Ballard at the Weather Channel interview?

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
A:
Yes, Your Honor.
2
3
4
THE COURT:
Q:
Thank you.
Are you aware that your contact Mario Andretti
offered Mr. Ballard a job?
A:
No I'm not aware.
Q:
I think I'm just about done, sir.
Returning to your
comments about the ADT, this is the security system at your
home correct?
A:
Yes, ma'am.
10
Q:
Okay.
11
12
And it controls a gate of some sort or an
entrance area?
A:
There's a code that you type in to enter the home.
13
There's also an online entry where you can go and check the
14
movement in the home and the doors that have opened.
15
16
Q:
Okay.
Did you give Ms. Driscoll the pass code or
the tools to use that ADT device?
17
A:
She helped the ADT service member set it up.
18
Q:
When was that, sir?
19
A:
I don't remember the date.
20
Q:
Did you build that home?
21
A:
Purchased it.
22
Q:
You purchased it.
23
24
36
Did you have some repairs done to
the home afterwards?
A:
When we purchased it there was the bullnose edging

Ubiqus/Nation- Wide Reporting & Convention Coverage
Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
37
around the windows that was all beginning to peel back due to
poor glue.
at the same time.
sheetrock repair to that edge and then repainted.
And so we wanted to repaint the family room area

So we fixed all the bullnose edging,
Q:
Are there actually cameras in the home?
A:
There are now.
Q:
There are now.
this incident or the week before this incident?
A:
No, ma'am.
10
Q:
Okay.
MS. MCNEICE:
11
12
THE COURT:
I believe that's all for
Mr. Hardin, do you have any
redirect?
15
REDIRECT EXAMINATION
16
BY MR. RUSTY HARDIN
17
Okay.
right now, thank you.
13
14
But there weren't at the time of
Q:
She asked you about Detective Wood when you had the
18
interview.
And do you recall demonstrating for Detective
19
Wood, some of what we did for the Judge, as to how the
20
encounter occurred?
21
A:
Yes, sir.
22
Q:
And in that interview did you mention to him that it
23
is possible when you cupped your hands that you may have moved
24
her head back and hit the wall?

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38
A:
Yes, it's possible.
Q:
Do you know one way or the other whether she did or
A:
I don't.
Q:
Okay.
A:
Yes, sir.
Q:
Okay.
not?
But is that still your testimony?
MR. HARDIN:
THE COURT:
That's all I have.

So I have just a few questions for
10
you because I'm a little curious about some things that
11
were testified to yesterday and I'll certainly give
12
counsel an opportunity to ask questions after the Court
13
does.
14
JUDICIAL EXAMINATION
15
BY HONORABLE DAVID JONES
16
Q:
The Court's heard testimony so far that you lived
17
with Ms. Driscoll sort of between each other's residences for
18
an extended period of time and spent a great deal of time with
19
each other.
20
of your relationship Ms. Driscoll indicated to you that she
21
was a mercenary and had done sort of covert operations for
22
either governments or other entities.
23
her then and you believe her now.
24
happened during your relationship that supported your belief?
And you testified yesterday that at the beginning
And that you believed
Were there things that

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
REDIRECT EXAMINATION OF K. BUSCH BY R. HARDIN
39
Or things that you observed during your relationship that
supported your belief that Ms. Driscoll was indeed sort of a
covert mercenary?
A:
Yes, Your Honor.
Q:
Okay.
6
7
And can you explain to the Court what some of
those things were?

A:
She had to do re-certifications for her shooting
guns every January or so.
There were random trips to the FARM
which is the CIA headquarters.
At one point when we had a
10
discussion about her trips that she would take to the border
11
or wherever she would go, I thought that there were around a
12
dozen times that she was out in action and she said no, it's
13
more towards 40.
14
Q:
Okay.
15
A:
And I had a hard time believing that number.
And
16
that's when things began to seem fishy to me but there were so
17
many occasions where she'd come back with bumps and bruises
18
and scrapes.
19
with her and her family lives there.
20
and dad, her mom and dad, and I stayed in a hotel room.
21
she left with her gear on one night and came back with a
22
trench coat that she did not leave with, covering the evening
23
gown that she came back in that was covered with blood and
24
matter.
There was one where I went to El Paso, Texas

So I had dinner with mom
And
It gave me every reason to believe that this was an

Phone: 212-346-6666 * Fax: 888-412-3655
JUDICIAL EXAMINATION OF K. BUSCH BY HON. JONES
2
3
4
operative that worked in the underground of the military.

Q:
Okay.
And you said when she left with gear on, what
kind of gear, sir?

A:
Camo pants, boots, camo jacket, looking like a
Pocket Commando in that video.

Q:
Okay.
So there were things that happened at various
times throughout the relationship that caused you to believe
that representation?
A:
Yes, Your Honor.
10
Q:
Thank you.
THE COURT:
11
If either counsel have questions
12
based upon the Court's questions, you may certainly ask
13
them.
14
MR. HARDIN:
15
RE-REDIRECT EXAMINATION
16
BY MR. RUSTY HARDIN
17
40
Q:
Thank you, Judge.
I believe you said you first met her in September
18
'10, so to follow up from the Judge's questions.
Did those
19
kinds of events you're talking about occur throughout the
20
relationship?
21
A:
Yes, sir.
22
Q:
When we move into the year 2014, were there
23
incidents that made you feel that--be convinced that she was
24
telling you the truth about this?

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
JUDICIAL EXAMINATION OF K. BUSCH BY HON. JONES
A:
41
There were incidents that still defined my reasoning
for believing.
Q:
been as
A:
Can you tell the Court with what those would have
':.~J?:ecent.ly
.as 2014?
Well the most recent that was brought up was her
trip to the border by Michael Domcheff, my motor coach driver
that was here, to testify and talking about how she came back
from the border and was walking very gingerly, very stiff.
far as this years--
10
11
Q:
As
No, were aware--now he testified to that, were you
aware of that incident at the time it happened?
12
A:
Yes, sir.
13
Q:
Did I misunderstand her questions to you earlier,
14
did you indicate that you wouldn't know when she went?
Help
15
me out there, do you recall when--Ms. Driscoll's lawyer was
16
asking you questions, did you mean to imply that you were not
17
aware that that even happened or what?
18
I'm asking?
19
A:
Not quite.
20
Q:
All right.
Do you understand what
Do you recall this morning there was
21
this questioning from her lawyer concerning her going to--Mr.
22
Domcheff's testimony about her going to the border and whether
23
you went with her.
24
A:
Okay.
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RE-REDIRECT EXAMINATION OF K. BUSCH BY R. HARDIN
42
Q:
Is that the incident that you're talking about now?
A:
That's one that I knew that she was going on--
Q:
[interposing] But you did not go with her?
A:
-- but Ms. McNeice said that both of us were there
and I was not.
Q:
All right.
A:
Yes, sir.
Q:
All right.
A:
That she had a mission.
10
Q:
How did you become aware of it?
11
But you were aware of the event?
And what were you aware of?
I mean did she tell
you before or after or what?
12
A:
She told me before.
13
Q:
This was during what race weekend for you?
14
A:
For me the race weekend was leading into Loudon, New
15
Hampshire.
And when she would schedule her missions it was
16
always around her custody calendar that she had to share with
17
her ex-husband.
18
Q:
All right tell the Court about that?
19
A:
About the custody calendar?
20
Q:
Well what you mean--yeah the way they would be
21
22
scheduled and then this particular event to the border.

A:
There was always back and forth on their custody
23
calendar on who would have Houston's custody when.
24
would position it around her work days.
And she
Her work days could

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
include the Armed Forces Foundation events, it could include
Front Line Defense Systems and then it also could include
these trips, these military trips that she would take.
Q:
Now what would she tell you about these trips?
A:
That she was going to kill somebody or have the
43
opportunity to go on a mission to work with these individuals
in a certain capacity to help with drug trafficking primarily.

Well you knew you had friends that didn't believe
Q:
this right?
10
A:
Yes, sir.
11
Q:
Okay.
12
13
So tell the Court why in spite of others
telling you it couldn't be true you continue to believe this.

A:
I believed it because I lived it and saw it and I
14
lived with her.
15
would come back with.
16
down a hillside running to either catch or run away from some
17
illegal immigrant or illegal.
18
on the outside can tell me that I'm crazy but I lived on the
19
inside and saw it firsthand.
20
21
22
Q:
There would be bumps and bruises that she

Scrapes when she would tell me she slid
And I lived it.
So everybody
Did she describe her ability in these encounters
when she would go and what she would do?

A:
Yeah, she described her ability as a mercenary to
23
kill people at close contact, whether it was with knives,
24
pistols or with poison.

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Q:
44
And you heard briefly the questions I had earlier
about the scar and you testified about that.
Did these kinds
of conversations and events occur throughout your relationship
or was it just at the beginning?
A:
All the way through.
Q:
And then going specifically to the most recent event
before your breakup.
returned about--that event you described about a week and a
half or so before the New Hampshire race?
10
11
That would have been--she would have
Or a week before

A:
It would have been the same weekend.
She arrived--
12
if the 21st was a Sunday, she would have arrived on the 19th,
13
Friday.
14
Q:
15
Okay.
And she would have had--and so the event
would have occurred before that?
16
A:
Yeah.
17
Q:
[interposing] Somewhere in there.
18
A:
Somewhere in there.
19
Q:
So the week before the New Hampshire race did she
20
On the 18th, 17th, 16th--
tell you what she had gone to do down on the border?
21
A:
No, sir.
22
Q:
Did she tell you beforehand that she was going?
23
A:
It might have been on the calendar, I don't know--a
24
lot of times when I would read on the calendar she was going
Phone: 212-346-6666 * Fax: 888-412-3655
1
2
3
on these missions so I would just--in one ear, out the other.

Q:
But when you say on the calendar what would be on
there?
A:
Work trip.
Q:
That's all it would say?
A:
Mm-hmm.
Q:
All right.
8
9
So work trip could mean any one of the
three things you mentioned to the Judge a minute ago?

A:
Normally the AFF stuff was listed, Front Line
10
Defense Systems stuff was listed.
11
programs it just said work trip because my assistant Christy
12
has an open calendar and she wouldn't want to expose the
13
certain work items to a third party.
14
45
Q:
Okay.
Anytime it was the secret
So if she was going out of town on one of
15
these missions that you believed she was on, she would
16
indicate that on the calendar frequently just as a work trip?
17
A:
Yes.
18
Q:
But it would never say what it was?
19
A:
It wouldn't say what it was.
20
were listed.
21
Q:
And not all of them
If you had to go through the number of times, did
22
she ever talk to you about any hand to hand combat situations
23
or so?
24
A:
She did.
Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
Q:
What did she say?
A:
That there were situations that went wrong.
46
That
there was a member of the team that wasn't in position or
messed up in his job and things went crazy.
jumped in a car to try to evacuate.
hurt so much so that he was bleeding and that they had to call
and audible to help with his health.
all kinds of details and stories.
pistol whipped and came back with--one time all kinds of
10
bruises on her face.
11
out this weekend and be seen.
12
Q:
13
events?
14
A:
15
16
17
That they all
And one of the guys was
And--I mean there were
And times when she got
And I said it's not wise for you to go
Can you put a year or a month on those kinds of

Or this particular one you just described?
On that particular one I want to say 2013.
when I was ~ith the Furniture Row Racing.

Q:
Did she ever say these kinds of things around other
people in your presence?
18
A:
Not very often or none at all.
19
Q:
Did she ever show you any pictures that she
20
It was
contended showed her undercover work?
21
A:
Yes, sir.
22
Q:
What did she show you?
23
A:
Early on it was the illegals that she killed.
24
Q:
She said she killed them?

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47
A:
Yes, sir.
Q:
What was the picture, what did it show?
A:
It showed a headshot to an individual that was shot
5
6
from lon-g- .range:~

Q:
And did she--what did she say?
How did she say this
person was killed.
A:
She said I did that.
Q:
Did you ask her questions about it?
A:
I said what rifle did you use.
10
Q:
And what did she say?
11
A:
She said it was a long range sniper rifle with an
12
excellent scope.
13
issues at that level.
14
15
16
Q:
I don't know what type of gun the military
You really
believed that she was working with the
Army or the government doing this didn't you?

A:
From what I've seen in the different areas and
17
capacities that I've toured with her and the way she spoke,
18
and the times she came back from missions, absolutely.
19
20
Q:
And even today you still believe it.
Is that
Yes, sir.
correct?
21
A:
Sorry I'm the last one to the party.
22
Q:
Pardon me?
23
A:
Yes, sir.
24
Q:
All right.
And, urn, when all of this was going on,

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
in the evening of the 26th, she ask you about alcohol or she
asked you about prescription drugs or anything, had you had
any of that on the Friday of September the 26th?
A:-- No., sir.
Q:
48
And when you had this encounter in the bedroom, what
was your state of mind had been if you had tried to physically
hurt her, what did you think would happen?
A:
Frankly?
Q:
Yeah.
10
A:
That I would have got my ass handed to me.
11
MR. HARDIN:
12
THE COURT:
13
MR. HARDIN:
14
THE COURT:
16
MR. HARDIN:
17
THE COURT:
18
MS. MCNEICE:
19
RECROSS EXAMINATION
20
22
Ms. McNeice?
Oh I'm sorry.
May I have just one
moment, Your Honor?
15
21
That's all I have.
Q:
Sure.
All right.
Ms. McNeice?
Thank you.
Mr. Busch, to the best of your knowledge does Ms.
Driscoll have security clearances?
23
A:
Yes, ma'am.
24
Q:
She does?
Phone: 212-346-6666 * Fax: 888-412-3655
A:
Yes, ma'am.
Q:
How about Mr. Hermanstorfer, does he also have
security clearances?
A:
I believe so.
Q:
Okay.
All right you indicated that you continued to
believe her comments about various work trips because you
lived it on the inside.
or locations where these work trips might have occurred?
9
10
49
A:
Can you tell us here today any dates
There's so many dates and work trips that occurred.
The majority of them were to south of the border.
11
Q:
South of the border?
12
A:
South of the Mexican border.
And the way that most
13
of the trips started to end up towards the latter part of our
14
relationship coincided with race weekends in the South, such
15
as Texas, Phoenix, Las Vegas, Los Angeles, quick easy places
16
to commute from to get to the southwest border.
17
Q:
Okay.
18
A:
[interposing] On race weekends.
19
Q:
-- at that race weekends with you?
20
A:
Absolutely.
21
Q:
Okay.
22
A:
Yes, ma'am.
23
Q:
Okay.
24
So that she would be back to participate--
Or to do her Armed Forces Foundation work?
Is it possible, sir, that the expression work
trip was listed for the benefit of her child's father so that
Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
RECROSS EXAMINATION OF K. BUSCH BY C. MCNEICE
50
he also would have this calendar?
A:
Yes, Geoff had the calendar.
Q:
So the expression was also--he was advised of these
4
5
work trips as well as trips .to the various racing locations.

A:
He would be advised on the work trip and with the
code that I saw on the calendar as well on many occasions, she
would try to manipulate the calendar in a fashion to where
Geoff wouldn't necessarily know where she was.
Q:
Okay.
You mentioned the calendar your attorney
10
asked you about the calendar prior to the New Hampshire event.
11
Now that race if I recall was on Sunday and I think we decided
12
that was Sunday September 21st, 2014?
13
A:
Yes, ma'am.
14
Q:
Okay.
15
So do you recall on September 16th flying to
Charlotte from BWI?
16
A:
I don't recall.
17
Q:
Okay.
18
It sounds correct.
Do you recall being at her home in Ellicott
City on September 17th?
19
A:
I don't recall.
20
Q:
Is this the day you were taking some golf shots that
21
are posted on Facebook, sir?
22
A:
Oh it could be that time.
23
Q:
Okay.
24
Do you recall staying in her home in Ellicott
City on September 18th?

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
A:
It's sounds correct because we would travel up the
Eastern Seaboard.
understand the schedule that week.
I see what you've got here so I wouldn't
Q:
Okay.
A:
[interposing] And Domcheff said that she came back
Would you agree--
from the border during his testimony so that's what I was
going off of.
8
9
10
11
12
Q:
Okay.
But in fact it looks like that's not true
correct?
A:
accurate.
Q:
Most of what Domcheff had to say wasn't all that

Poor guy.
Would you agree with me that on September 18th you
13
left at about 10:00 p.m. from BWI to fly to Manchester, New
14
Hampshire?
15
A:
Sure.
16
Q:
Okay.
17
A:
Yes.
18
Q:
All right.
19
And that would have been the Thursday
before to get ready for the race weekend correct?
20
A:
Yes, ma'am.
21
Q:
Okay.
22
51
And then you were in Manchester on the 19th,
correct?
23
A:
It all sounds exactly right.
24
Q:
Do you recall that Patricia had a matter in the

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52
Court in Howard County with regard to custody of her son that
day?
I don't recall.
A:
Q :; -,_ ._. Okay.
A:
This whole week seems like it's misconstrued because
Domcheff said that she came back from the border.
all that I was alluding to.
8
9
10
Q:
Okay.
So that's
But now you've decided that that was not a
correct statement.
A:
I have no idea what this calendar was with exact
11
moments on which day was which other than the 19th was a
12
Friday and that is Loudon, New Hampshire race weekend.
13
14
Q:
Okay.
So you were in New Hampshire that weekend,
you know that?
15
A:
Yes, ma'am.
16
Q:
Okay.
17
I believe that Mr. Domcheff did testify
however that he picked her up at the airport on Friday.
18
A:
That sounds correct.
19
Q:
And she was with you for any Friday evening events
20
and the Saturday?
Pre-race--
21
A:
[interposing] Yes, ma'am.
22
Q:
Okay.
23
MS. MCNEICE:
24
THE COURT:
Thank you, nothing further.

Okay.
Anything else of this

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
witness?
MR. HARDIN:
THE COURT:
53
I don't believe I do, Your Honor.

Thank you, Mr. Busch.
resume your seat next to your counsel.
You may
Mr. Hardin?
MR. HARDIN:
THE COURT:
MR. HARDIN:
THE COURT:
Okay.
THE CLERK:
Left hand on the Bible, raise your
10
right.
Your Honor, we call Mr. Sniffen.

Okay.
First name?
Richard Andrew Sniffen.

Thank you.
State your name for me.
11
MR. RICHARD SNIFFEN:
12
THE CLERK:
13
Do you swear to tell the truth, the
whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God?
14
MR. SNIFFEN:
15
THE CLERK:
16
I do.
Please spell your last name for the
record.
17
MR. SNIFFEN:
S as in Sam, N as in Nancy, I, F
18
as in Frank, F as in Frank, E as in Edward, N as in
19
Nancy.
20
R I C H A R D
21
duly sworn, testified as follows:
22
DIRECT EXAMINATION
23
BY MR. RUSTY HARDIN
24
Q:
S N I F F E N, having been first
Good morning.
Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
A:
Good morning.
Q:
Mr. Sniffen, your name has been going back and
forth.
referred.
54
Could you help us so the Court and all them know as

Your full name again is what?
A:
Q:
And most of the people in your profession or social
life do they call you Richard Andrew instead of using the last
name Sniffen?
A:
Yes they do.
10
Q:
Why is that?
11
A:
That's because when I started to travel and minister
12
as a singer and a song writer, the last name was kind of
13
difficult for people.
14
seemed easier.
15
Q:
Okay.
So we went with my middle name, it
So in this proceeding any time somebody might
16
have said Richard Andrew they would be talking about you even
17
though your last name is Sniffen?
18
A:
Yes that's correct.
19
Q:
All right, sir.
20
A:
I am 44 years old.
21
Q:
Are you married?
22
A:
23
Q:
And do you have children?
24
A:
How old a man are you?
am.
do.

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
DIRECT EXAMINATION OF R. SNIFFEN BY R. HARDIN
Q:
How many.
A:
I have two biological children and three step-
55
children, so five kids.
Q:
And what is your present profession?
A:
I am a music minister.
I lead worship at my home
church and I also travel singing and presently doing the work
of an evangelist as well.
Q:
Where is your home church?
A:
In Rancho Cucamonga, California.
10
Q:
Now that's not the way you started out is it?
11
A:
No it's not.
12
Q:
All right.
The River's Edge.
Would you give the Court in your own
13
words just sort of the benefit of the road that got you to
14
where you are.
15
16
A:
Well I was born and raised in a middle class home.
Good parents, good family, good home.
17
Q:
Where?
18
A:
In West Covina, California.
19
Q:
Okay.
20
A:
And at the age of 14 I made a really bad decision.
21
I ran away from home and at that time I got tied up and
22
involved in pretty much every ugly thing they warn you about
23
as a young person.
24
of high school, I started using drugs, became a drug addict, a
I was obviously a runaway, I dropped out

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
I was homeless for a period of time.
56
Before I
drug dealer.
was 18 I was a teen father expecting my second daughter.
Q:
I'm going to stop you.
A:
Yes.
Q:
When you mentioned children, two biological
children, are those the biological children you're talking
about?
A:
That's correct, yes.
Q:
And they were both conceived before you were 18?
10
A:
That's correct.
11
Q:
Go ahead.
12
A:
And eventually I started getting arrested for
13
possession, possession with the intent to sell and ultimately
14
after being incarcerated for 60 days, 90 days, 1 year in the
15
county jail, the Judge said if I see you in my courtroom again
16
I'm going to send you to state prison.
17
addict.
18
me to state prison for four years.
And I was a drug
And she saw me again and she kept her word and sent
19
Q:
And what year did you get out?
20
A:
I would have been released on January 8th of 1994.
21
Q:
So you have that felony conviction in California
22
right?
23
A:
Correct.
24
Q:
And I'm not asking you things that you don't talk
Phone: 212-346-6666 * Fax: 888-412-3655
57
about yourself am I?
A:
No.
Q:
All right.
prison.
A:
I was 23 when I got out.
Q:
What did you do then?
A:
As a condition of my parole I had to be in 12 step
8
9
10
11
I'm actually proactive in sharing this.

How old were you when you got out of
group so-Q:
[interposing] Did anything happen to you while you
were in prison that changed your life?

A:
Yeah.
I actually had an encounter in the prison
12
chapel and what I believe to be supernatural in nature.
And I
13
dedicated my life to Christ at that time.
14
sure what that meant.
15
from prison and a condition of the parole was to be in a 12
16
step, so I found a local church and enrolled in their 12 step.
17
And eventually I was not only there for their 12 step but I
18
was there for a Sunday morning service, Sunday night men's
19
fellowship, their single's group, their mid-week Bible study.
20
I was basically--if the doors were open, I was there.
21
was at that time that I came to really understand what took
22
place in the prison.
23
sure but as I began to grow in my faith and in my
24
understanding of God's word, I began to understand exactly
I really wasn't
And a few months later I was released
And it
That was kind of new for me so I wasn't

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
1
2
3
58
what happened to me.

Q:
So starting at age 24 did you try to reunite with
those children that had been born?

A:
.;:GJh .absolutely.
As a matter of fact I had done so
many terrible things to my parents, just abusing that
relationship with them, stealing from them and--everything
that they say that drug addicts do, I did all of those things.
But my parents even after all of that they were still good
enough to allow me to parole to their home.
And the day I was
10
released from prison they had made arrangements for my
11
daughters to be there in their home so I was able to see them.
12
Q:
How old are those kids now?
13
A:
They are 24 and 22.
14
Q:
And how did they turn out?
15
A:
Amazing.
I used to ask myself while I was in
16
prison, like, what a terrible hand they had been dealt to have
17
me as their father.
18
those things around.
19
daughter just graduated from a college, got her BA in Arts.
20
And she graduated Magna Cum Laude and I was lucky enough to be
21
in the room when she got that diploma.
22
restored those relationships to such a degree that there is no
23
evidence whatsoever of the man that I used to be or the poor
24
excuse for a father that I used to be for those girls.
But since then God has turned all of

They are both amazing.
My youngest
And God has literally

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
Q:
And somewhere along that you got married?
A:
Yes.
Q:
How long ago?
A:
.I~ve
59
been--my wife and I just celebrated our 10 year
wedding anniversary.
Q:
And she has three children from a previous marriage.
A:
Yes.
Q:
And you live now where?
A:
In Chino Hills, California.
10
Q:
Now how did you get to know either Kurt Busch or
11
Patricia Driscoll?
12
A:
I was exposed to the NASCAR community in general--
13
Q:
[interposing] Actually let me stop you there.
14
A:
Okay.
15
Q:
No, it's my fault.
16
Maybe it's good to put this in
context.
17
A:
Okay.
18
Q:
You talked about music did you not?
19
A:
Yes.
20
Q:
Tell me what your music is, what you do and so--
21
A:
I basically am a worship leader.
So that basically
22
translates into the music that is shared in the church
23
service.
24
music versus playing music that maybe other people have
And over the course of time I began to write my own

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
written.
sharing it in worship services.
I do today traveling.
4
5
6
Q:
60
And began to share that music in that same context,

And that's a portion of what
So when you--do you tour?
I mean do you go around
to different churches?
A:
I haven't been on any lengthy tours like I'm sure
when people hear the word tour they think that someone is out
on the road for 40 weeks or whatever it is.
not me.
That's definitely
I think that's partially because I'm really lazy.
10
But I do travel, maybe go somewhere for a week or two or a
11
weekend and then go back home.
12
13
Q:
Have you actually done any performance and
appearances for Ms. Driscoll's Armed Forces Foundation?
14
A:
I have.
15
Q:
All right.
16
17
So then let's go to how you meet the two
of them.
A:
I meet the two of them--I'm exposed to their
18
community as a worship leader for the chapel services that
19
serve the racing community--the NASCAR community.
20
21
22
23
24
Q:
When did you first get involved in appearing and
being involved with any in the racing community?

A:
This would be my fifth year doing it.

THE COURT:
So--
So is that the Motor Racing
Outreach Group?
Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
61
A:
That's correct.
THE COURT:
3
4
Q:
Thank you.
Yes, if you would explain what kind of connection if
any you have with them.

A:
Yeah I am actually not a member of Motor Racing
Outreach.
the music for a handful of their chapel services that they're
doing.
10
Q:
I am basically asked to come as a guest and provide
Okay.
So periodically you'll appear at their chapel
services.
11
A:
Correct.
12
Q:
So you know Mr. Nick Terry do you?
13
A:
14
Q:
How long have you known him?
15
A:
For the duration--well I take that back.
do.
16
not the Chaplin at the time that I had started.
17
actually come in later.
18
years.
Nick was
He had
So I guess I've known Nick for three
19
Q:
Okay.
20
A:
That's my estimate.
21
Q:
And then let's go down to my original question.
22
23
24
How
did you meet either Ms. Driscoll or Mr. Busch?

A:
I received a phone call from Nick Terry.
He had
told me that he had an opportunity to have a conversation with

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62
Ms. Driscoll and in the course of that conversation it had
come up that Mr. Busch had made some sort of a comment about
either my music or my ministry and whatever that comment was
it led her to believe that maybe I would be someone he would
welcome some sort of a relationship or a friendship with.
Nick was calling me to let me know that they wanted to know if
I would be willing to meet with them and I said yes.
8
9
10
11
12
Q:
So
So when would you estimate--and when you first met
with them did you meet with both of them together?
If you
remember.
A:
I don't actually remember.
I would guess yes that
would have been the case.
13
Q:
And how long ago would have been?
14
A:
Three years ago maybe or less.
15
Q:
Okay.
16
A:
I was first introduced to them very, very briefly at
17
Now where did you meet with them?
a racetrack, at a NASCAR race.
18
Q:
Do you recall what state--what's the occasion?
19
A:
I believe that it was Phoenix.
20
Q:
All right.
21
And then as time went on did you see or
visit with one of them more than the other?
22
A:
Did I visit with--?
23
Q:
Or with one of them.
24
As time went on--in a
subsequent later time, after that initial meeting.

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
Just track
63
for us your relationship with him if you can.
2
3
A:
After that initial meeting we had met again to have
dinner W"ith:':th:em1
wife and I both to have dinner with them.
weekend.
mean that our initial meeting was not in Phoenix.
had that kind of like a dinner date, we joined them for
dinner.
10
11
12
13
..
actually my wife and I-- or they in vi ted my
And actually that was in Phoenix.
And it was a race

So that would
Because we
And that's when we kind of got to know each other a
little better.
Q:
All right.
Then after that how would your
relationship develop?
A:
My actual times at the racetrack are very limited.
14
Unlike MRO who are there every weekend, I'm only there a
15
handful of weekends per year.
16
to see them face to face.
17
relationships kind of unfolded from there maybe via text or
18
telephone calls mainly.
19
20
Q:
And that's my only opportunity
So I would say that the
And would you be in contact with one of them more
than the other?
21
A:
I would say yes.
22
Q:
And who would that be?
23
A:
Patricia.
24
Q:
How much--over those three years how much contact

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
64
did you have with Mr. Busch himself?
A:
How would we measure that?
Q:
That's a good question.
Using what measuring?
Each year would--if you had
to sort ~'ef-.;gaess. how much contact you've had with him each
year, if we say that 2014 just concluded so we go back if you
say three years--2011--or would it be '12,
years would it be that you've known him?

A:
8
9
'13,
So this is '15, so it would be '14,
'14?
What
'13, maybe '12.
I'm really not exactly sure when we first met.
10
Q:
Okay.
But during that period of time--let's say on
11
a monthly basis, how much contact would you have with each
12
one?
13
14
A:
Well it's probably better to look at it maybe over
the course of a year.
15
Q:
That's fine.
16
A:
Because I average between--I average 10 races per
17
year, although last year I only did 5.
So for sure I'm going
18
to see him, both of them, at these races.
19
Q:
All right.
20
A:
Now the last two years I also performed at the Armed
21
Forces Foundation Gala which I saw them both at those events.
22
Outside of that, the track and those events, any communication
23
we have is just phone call or text messaging.
24
Q:
All right.
And let's do that.
So you've talked

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
about the personal encounters you would have.
always to the best of your memory where they were together
when you had personal encounters?
A:
Yes, a majority of the time yes.
Q:
All right.
Were those
And then would you have individual
encounters with either one of them through text or phone?
A:
Yes.
Q:
Which one would you have the most of that type of
contact?
10
A:
Patricia.
11
Q:
And how often would you hear from Kurt Busch on an
12
65
annual basis by either phone or text?
13
A:
Phone or text message I would say that I tried to
14
send Mr. Busch a text message at least once a week just to try
15
to send him just a random encouraging word.
16
instances he would respond.
17
times a month.
Q:
18
19
And in those
So I guess maybe four or five
And would those usually be in response to you
initiating or vice versa?
20
A:
A majority of the time it would be me initiating
22
Q:
And he would respond?
23
A:
Correct.
24
Q:
Now how about Ms. Driscoll?
21
them.

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
1
2
A:
The same thing.
I would send her as well random
text messages with some sort of an encouraging word.
Q:
And would she respond to those?
A:
Yes.
Q:
And then what about whether or not she would
sometimes initiate contact with you?
A:
She would, yes.
Q:
How often would that happen?
A:
Um--
10
Q:
Let's just do the last couple of years.
11
'13 and '14.
12
A:
13
14
15
16
17
18
66
The last couple of years quite a bit.
Let's do
I mean there
had been quite a bit--several of those instances.

Q:
Can you talk about how often if you did it on a
monthly basis.
A:
Just completely guessing I would say maybe two or
three times a month.

Q:
Okay.
Now did you receive a phone call from her on
19
September the 26th which she relayed to you an encounter with
20
Mr. Busch in his mobile home?
21
A:
22
dates are.
23
dates--
24
To tell you the truth I have no idea what these

Do you know what I mean?
The actual specific
[crosstalk]
Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
Q:
All right.
Let's do it this way.
Do you recall
having conversations with her concerning an incident with a
car after a race in New Hampshire?
A:
Yes.
Q:
All right.
And if I tell you that everybody here
will agree that race and the car incident was September the
21st, a Sunday, will that help you put what happens from now
on in context.
A:
Yes.
10
Q:
Okay.
11
12
13
67
How was it that she contacted you and when
did she contact you about an incident in the car?

A:
She would have contacted by telephone.
And did you
ask me the time because I don't know the time?
14
Q:
No I didn't.
15
A:
Okay.
16
Q:
Sometime that day?
17
A:
Yes.
18
Q:
And what did she tell you?
19
A:
Basically that they had had an argument and--they
20
had an argument, you know, and everything that kind of goes
21
with someone who is sharing with you that, you know, we've had
22
an argument.
23
Q:
24
Did she suggest that he had done anything to
physically hurt her?

Phone: 212-346-6666 * Fax: 888-412-3655
A:
That he had done something to hurt her?
Q:
Yeah.
A:
No.
Q:
Did she say he had done anything to threaten her?
A:
No.
Q:
Did she say she had suffered any kind of physical
I'm asking--
harm or incident?
A:
Her personally?
Q:
Yes.
10
A:
No.
11
Q:
The best that you can remember, what did she tell
12
13
you that happened?

A:
She had said that there was an argument and that the
14
car had actually been what had suffered damage.
15
rearview mirror I believe had been pulled down.
That the
16
Q:
By Mr. Busch?
17
A:
Correct.
18
Q:
Okay.
19
A:
And then anything else that she shared was just
20
68
about an argument, just two people-THE COURT:
21
22
it was, sir?
23
A:
24
go his way.
Do you not recall specifically what
That he had suffered some sort of--the race didn't

So something had happened technically or
Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
69
professionally as far as that race goes.
it he was very angry and they were arguing and fighting.
actually could not tell you--
4
5
Q:
When you say fighting,
And that because of

I
I always want to know what
you mean by fighting.
A:
Arguing verbally.
Q:
Okay.
A:
But I could not tell you what specifically what she
said was the contents of the argument.
10
11
Go ahead.
A:
THE COURT:
That's fine.
THE COURT:
We're only interested in what you
Okay.
12
13
remember, sir.
14
A:
Okay.
15
Q:
All right.
16
rephrase that.
17
all this?
18
A:
I don't know.
So how would you describe--let me
What did she tell you that her reaction was to
What did she want out of it?

She was upset.
What was her concern.
She was--two lovers had been in an
19
argument and she was angry and upset over what happened.
20
know a lot of the words were coming from a broken heart I
21
believe.
22
Q:
All right.
You
And during this period of time, at that
23
stage if somebody had asked you whether you were friends were
24
Kurt Busch and Patricia Driscoll what would you say?

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70
A:
I would answer yes.
Q:
All right.
Would you have said you were friends
with both of them?
Q:
Would you have said you were friends equally with
both of them?
A:
Yes.
Q:
Explain to the Court when you would be talking to
them about different issues or so, what posture do you take
10
when you're sort of counseling somebody like that in a
11
religious atmosphere?
12
A:
Well the posture I take is that of someone who wants
13
to encourage and uplift and not judge or not tear down.
14
it's not for me to judge.
15
table it's for me to try to encourage and get them past that
16
moment, especially if emotions are high and things like that.
17
18
19
Q:
So
Whatever the come and bring to the
Do you even try to determine one way or the other
whether what the person is telling you is accurate?

A:
Absolutely not.
It's mine to assume that what they
20
are saying is truthful.
And even if it's not, it's truth to
21
them in that moment while they're sharing it.
22
people can be unreasonable when emotions are high but to them
23
those are real authentic feelings and experiences.
24
mine to simply say then that's what it is and let's deal with
Sometimes

Phone: 212-346-6666 * Fax: 888-412-3655
And it's
71
it, let's get you through it.
Q:
Okay.
And as we go through these conversations
we're about to have was that your approach throughout with Ms.
Driscoll?
A:
I believe so.
Q:
All right.
Now would you estimate for the Court how
long this conversation that Sunday took?
A:
This is the Sunday with the car?
Q:
On the 21st from New Hampshire.
10
A:
This is just a complete estimate or guess, maybe an
12
Q:
An hour?
13
A:
Maybe.
14
Q:
Well what would she be saying during all that time
15
for an hour?
16
A:
Just how upset she is.
17
Q:
Well what was her concern?
18
A:
What she wanted was for there to be a peaceful,
11
hour.
What did she want?
19
giving authentic love relationship.
20
relationship.
21
Q:
Did she express any fear of him during that call?
22
A:
No.
23
Q:
Has she talked at all about being afraid of him at
24
What she wants is a
all?
Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
A:
No.
Q:
What did she tell you she wanted?
A:
She wants there to be a peaceful relationship,
coexistence between the two of them.
love relationship where two people are together sharing all
aspects of their lives together drama free without arguments
like this or incidents where someone is pulling a mirror off
of a car.
9
10
11
Q:
She wants there to be a
That's what she wants.

All right.
And did she indicate that she wanted
reconciliation?
A:
That's always the undertone.
That's always the
12
underlying undertone is how do we get to this euphoric
13
relationship.
14
Q:
15
So I would say yes.
You mean that was always the undertone with her when
you were talking to her about--
16
A:
I believe so, yeah.
17
Q:
Okay.
18
A:
I believe so.
19
Q:
So in turn what was your approach when she was
20
72
talking about all this?
21
A:
As always to try to calm the situation.
22
Q:
Then after that conversation with her about she and
23
24
Always.
Mr. Busch on the 21st, did you continue to hear from her?
A:
I did.
Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
Q:
Take us through that week before the incident we all
hear about.
that Monday, what?
A:
Did you hear from her again on that Sunday or
Because of the holes in my memory I could not say
exactly how those days unfolded.
heard from her at least every day that week.
Q:
All right.
But I could speculate that I
Were you hearing from her by phone or by
text?
Both.
A:
10
Q:
And how often would she text you do you think?
11
A:
I don't know.
12
Q:
[interposing]
13
A:
At least daily.
14
Q:
All right.
15
But a safe-If you don't know--pardon me?
And was there a constant theme through
all your communications with her that week?
16
A:
Yes.
17
Q:
And what was that?
18
A:
Reconciliation.
Getting to the point of having a
19
relationship that is free,
20
these blowouts that she describes.
21
22
73
Q:
like I said, of these arguments,
Did she express to you at any time during that week
any fear of Mr. Busch?
23
A:
No.
24
Q:
Did she express to you any time during that week any

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
74
physical concerns she might have about the way he would treat
her?
A:
No.
Q:
Had she ever in your counseling with her ever
suggested to you at any time that Mr. Busch had physically
ever either hit her or caused her any injury?
A:
Prior to--?
Q:
This incident.
A:
No.
10
Q:
During the time that you talked those two to three
11
years, had she ever reported to you any past history of
12
physical abuse by Mr. Busch?
13
A:
No.
14
Q:
Now in this particular week that we're speaking of,
15
realizing you don't remember dates, I think I can give you
16
another date that everybody agrees on.
17
assume is the evening that she visited with her son and Mr.
18
Busch in his motorhome.
Friday the 26th, I
19
A:
Okay.
20
Q:
I think everybody can agree on that.
21
A:
Okay.
22
Q:
So between Sunday in New Hampshire, the hour long
23
phone call you're talking about, and Friday in his motorhome
24
in the evening, how much contact would you describe you had

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
from Ms. Busch?
A:
From Ms. Driscoll?
Q:
Excuse me, from Ms. Driscoll.
A: , .i'.Ho:w ,;;:1llllch. contact did I have with her during the
course of that week?
Q:
That's right.
A:
Urn--
Either by text or phone?
MS. MCNEICE:
8
9
Objection.
Asked and answer.
He
said it was at least daily.
10
MR. HARDIN:
11
THE COURT:
12
75
Q:
I guess daily.
I think that's correct.

It is.
And then when you get multiple texts
13
in the same day or would you just get one text or one contact
14
that day or how would you describe it?
15
A:
I would say that it was possible to hear from her
16
more than once in a specific day.
17
that week.
Not necessarily every day
18
Q:
All right.
19
A:
But I would say that happened at least once or twice
20
that week--
21
Q:
22
A:
23
Q:
24
Okay.
hearing from her multiple times.
So by the time you--did you receive a phone call
from her on the 26th, if I'm giving you the date and putting
Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
it into my question.
that Friday night or Saturday morning--well Friday night as
she was leaving his--or after she had left his motorhome.
76
Did you receive a phone call from her
A:
And this is the night of the--
Q:
[interposing] Of the encounter.
A:
Okay.
Q:
And do you recall about what time you got that phone
A:
Maybe sometime between 8:00 or 10:00 p.m.--the
8
9
10
11
12
Yes I did.
call?
answer to your question no, I do not recall the exact time.

All right fair enough.
Q:
Do you recall where you were
or what you were doing when you got the call.
13
A:
I was at my home watching TV with my wife.
14
Q:
And what did she say when she called you?
15
A:
She had said that she had gone to see him--first she
16
was crying when I answered the telephone so I knew that there
17
was something wrong.
18
said that she had gone to see him.
19
and a fight--
20
Q:
[interposing] A fight?
21
words.
22
And then--
23
24
A:
fight.
And I asked her what happened and she

And they got an argument
What did she, just the
All I want you to do is just remember what she said.
I would say she used the word argument and not

That's probably my word.
Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
Q:
Well then try to remember if you can
what her words were.
A:
All right.
77
Okay.
So we got in an argument.
And during the
course of that argument he pushed me and I hit my head.
Q:
Did she say where he pushed her--where she hit her
A:
Like where on the body or--?
Q:
What her head hit, did she say?
A:
She might have,
Q:
Did she say anything about him slamming her against
10
11
12
head?
have.
the wall and hitting her head three times?
13
A:
Multiple times?
14
Q:
Okay.
15
I don't really recall but she might
No.
She told you about he pushed her and she hit
her head.
16
A:
Correct.
17
Q:
And that's all she told you at that time happened?
18
A:
Correct.
19
Q:
And you're sure of that?
20
A:
I'm absolutely sure.
21
Q:
She never said anything about him slamming her
22
against the wall with her head three times?
23
A:
No.
24
Q:
You've never heard that?

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
A:
I have heard that.
Q:
Where have you heard that?
A:
In the media.
Q:
Okay.
Do you remember what your reaction was when
you saw that in the media?
A:
My reaction was that that's not what I had heard.
Q:
Okay.
A:
Correct.
Q:
Did she tell you that--she was having this
That's not what you were told.
10
conversation with you, did she try to put it in context in
11
terms of a visit with Mr. Terry.
12
said she had visited with Nick Terry?
13
14
A:
Was this before or after she
This would have been after.
She would have called
me after the visit to Mr. Terry.
15
Q:
16
in the car?
17
A:
I believe she said she was heading home.
18
Q:
All right.
19
Okay.
Did she tell you where she was on the way to
Did she say anything about her son being
with her?
20
A:
Yes.
21
Q:
What did she say?
22
A:
That he was with her.
23
Q:
All right.
24
78
Did she express any concern for him or
anything in that call?

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
A:
Yes, that she had made a comment about her disbelief
that he would do this with Houston in that immediate area or
in the--
4
5
6
8
9
10
Q:
[interposing] Actually she didn't say anything about
Houston having seen anything did she?
A:
No.
I believe she said that they were in one room
and then Houston was in a separate room.

Q:
Okay.
Now, as we talk about this if you can try to
eliminate, keep out of your mind anything you may have read or
heard from others.
11
A:
Okay.
12
Q:
And deal only with what you remember that she was
13
79
telling you that night.
14
A:
Yes.
15
Q:
And so did she say what happened after he--she said
16
he pushed her and she hit her head?
17
after that?
18
A:
That she left.
19
Q:
Okay.
20
A:
That she went to the MRO motor coach.
21
What did she say happened
Did she tell you where she went?

The Motor
Racing Outreach motor coach.
22
Q:
Where Mr. Terry was.
23
A:
Correct.
24
Q:
Okay.
How long would you estimate this conversation

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
80
that night took?
A:
It was long.
It was lengthy.
I believe that--I
believe we only spoke while she was driving so I'm not exactly
sure
majority of it to my understanding we were talking.
7
8
whatc:~the
Q:
.,:length of that drive was.
So that would be from Dover back to Maryland where
she lived.
A:
Yeah.
If that's where she headed, yeah.

THE COURT:
Did she arrive home, sir, during
10
the conversation with you?
11
A:
No.
12
13
14
15
But I would say the
THE COURT:
Q:
Okay.
Let me ask you this.
Did she in that conversation
express any fear of him?

A:
I'm going to say that looking back on my memory of
16
what her exact words were, she did not say the words that
17
night I'm afraid of him.
18
words that she would have used were words like I can't believe
19
he's done this,
20
Those kind of things so--
That statement was not made.
The
I can't believe he's, you know, attacked me.
21
Q:
[interposing] Did she say attacked?
22
A:
-- definitely speaking--
23
Q:
Wait a second now.
24
A:
Okay.

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
Q:
I just want to be sure.
A:
Okay.
Q:
I don't want this to be any of my words,
81
I want
yours. :.:when you use the word attack do you recall her saying
he attacked her?
A:
She probably used the assault versus the word
attacked.
Q:
Do you remember she used the word assault?
A:
Yes.
10
Q:
What else?
11
A:
Speaking more about being disbelief that that
12
happened versus saying I'm afraid of him.
13
that night she was afraid of him.
14
15
Q:
Okay.
She didn't tell me
And when she was talking to you about it,
would you she--you think she used the word assault right?
16
A:
Mm-hmm.
17
Q:
Did she ever give you anymore of the details in that
18
long conversation about what happened other than he pushed me
19
and I hit my head?
20
A:
No.
Anything else that she said was about the
21
arguing and about this kind of battle amongst them like
22
happening over and over.
23
kinds of things.
24
hitting her head.
And why can't I be happy--those
The comments weren't all focused around her

That was a statement that was made.

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
And
82
she talked about being shocked and surprised by the fact that
it had happened.
conversation was just about this relationship that was
failing.
5
6
Q:
But the majority of the contents of that
Did she express she still wanted the relationship--
anything about she still wanting the relationship to continue?
A:
She may not have used those words specifically, no.
Q:
But what does that mean?
10
I mean I'm wondering what
you mean she may not have used those words.
A:
Well the comments that she made were speaking to the
11
relationship and the problems with it.
12
as to why it couldn't just be something great and wonderful.
13
So she didn't necessarily use the words I want to continue
14
this relationship but she's talking about it.
15
Q:
All right.
And kind of speaking
During this time when she was driving
16
back and talking to you about it, did she expressed to you how
17
it had begun, why she had gone to his motorhome?
18
A:
Yes.
She said that she received a text message I
19
believe from him.
And in the text he had said some troubling
20
things that had led her to believe--
21
Q:
[interposing] What are the troubling things?
22
A:
That he had said that he was rolled up on the floor,
23
I'm not sure--the word fetal position comes to mind but I
24
can't say for sure that's what she said.
But that he was

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
somehow rolled up in the middle of the floor crying I believe.
Q:
And so she said what?
A:
So receiving that update from him that she was
4
5
Q:
So did she express why she took Houston with her or
did she discuss that at all?

A:
No.
Q:
All right.
she arrived?
11
A:
13
14
And then when she talked in terms of why
she went, did she say anything to you about what happened when
10
12
What did she do?
concerned.
83
Did she talk about him telling her to leave?
I believe she did, yes.
That he was upset that she
was there.
Q:
And did she say--when he was upset when she was
there, did she say anything about him telling her to leave?
15
A:
Yes.
16
Q:
Did she say how many times he told her to leave?
17
A:
If she did I don't recall.
18
Q:
Did she explain to you in her conversation from her
19
point of view why she didn't leave when he told her to?
20
A:
No.
21
Q:
Okay.
22
Now when you got to--when you finished that
conversation, when was the next time that you heard from her?
23
A:
The following day.
24
Q:
And what was the following day about?
How did that

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84
happen--what was that about?
A:
I don't recall the specifics.
Q:
Okay.
A:
I don't recall that either.
Q:
In that week after the 26th, from the 26th on--
How long was the conversation?
through that weekend and on, did you hear from her very often?
A:
Yes.
Q:
And what were you hearing from her?
9
10
saying to you?
What was she
First of all, let's start it this way.
you hearing by phone call or by text?
11
A:
Both.
12
Q:
How many times would you estimate.
13
A:
I really don't know.
14
Q:
That's okay.
It's difficult for me.
It would be hard to remember.
15
could give us some kind of ballpark for an idea of the
16
frequency, that's all I'm really trying to understand.
17
Were
A:
If you
I was definitely hearing from her frequently in
18
those days, in that time period following that evening I was
19
hearing from her quite a bit so--
20
Q:
And what does quite a bit mean?
21
A:
So to say maybe daily I don't think would be--
22
Q:
And was it one way or the other more--was it more
23
24
phone than text or more text than phone?

A:
Probably more text than phone.

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Q:
Okay.
beginning?
how she felt?
4
5
6
7
And what was the tone of these things in the
What was she expressing to you that she wanted or
A:" /T-hat. she ,was upset.
Q:
She was
In the course of these conversations was there any
tone of still wanting reconciliation?

A:
I would say yes.
Q:
All right.
11
That she was angry.
broken hearted.
10
85
And how would that manifest itself?
What kind of things would she say?
A:
Things like, you know, why can't this be different,
12
why can't he change, why can't he--those kinds of things.
13
When I hear those kinds of comments or questions I believe it
14
to mean that if he did then you'd be willing to receive him.
15
Q:
But did she make any--if we go back to the week
16
before this happened, did she express to you concern all that
17
week that she wasn't hearing from him?
18
A:
Yes.
19
Q:
And was she upset that she couldn't reach out to him
20
21
22
that week before it happened?
A:
I believe she did attempt to reach out to him but he
was not responding.
23
Q:
And was she upset that he wasn't responding?
24
A:
Yes.

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Q:
86
And so was the thrust of the whole week before this
incident is, is that she wanted contact with him and wanted to
talk to him and be with him?
Q:
Now after the 26th was there still a tone of that
that she still wanted the relationship to continue?
A:
I believe so, yes.
Q:
Okay.
Did she talk in terms of being afraid of him
then as opposed to being upset with him?
10
A:
This is after the--?
11
Q:
After the 26th.
12
A:
Um--
13
Q:
And I want to talk about just the week now.
14
go to December later.
15
immediately after in any terms of being afraid of him?
But at that time was she talking
16
A:
Not that I recall.
17
Q:
Okay.
18
Again your perception of what she wanted out
of the relationship, even the week after the 26th was what?
19
A:
Reconciliation.
20
Q:
Okay.
21
We'll
Now during that period of time did you ever
tell her she should not go back to Kurt?
22
A:
This is after the incident?
23
Q:
26th, yeah.
24
A:
Those specific words, me initiating those specific

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DIRECT EXAMINATION .OF R. SNIFFEN BY R. HARDIN
2
3
87
words, I don't believe I said that.
Q:
All right.
Did you tell her your view of what
should happen if a man--describe what you think of when a man-
4
5
A:
[interposing] I definitely--
Q:
Excuse me, let me finish.
A:
Okay.
Q:
-- if a man hits a woman.
A:
I definitely would have told her that he has crossed
10
Go ahead.
a line that cannot be uncrossed.
11
Q:
Okay.
12
A:
And if she would have said that she cannot go back
13
to him, I would have 100 percent full supported that decision.
14
Q:
But did she ever say that?
15
A:
Say what?
16
Q:
That she couldn't go back to him.
17
A:
She did yes, eventually.
18
Q:
When?
19
A:
Again I'm not sure of the timeframe.
How long after all this happened?

But this would
20
have been closer to when. this matter went public I guess, when
21
this was filed.
22
Q:
So closer to that.
Yeah I want to deal with the week of September--
23
after September 26th.
And then we get into the month of
24
October and during the month of October--let's assume the next

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88
date I give you that everybody can agree on would be that the
complaint that this Court is hearing was filed on November
5th.
Okay?
A:
Okay.
Q:
And at the time this complaint was filed, at the
same time she filed a criminal complaint with the Dover
Police.
A:
Okay.
Q:
Are you with me?
10
A:
I am.
11
Q:
And during let's say the first two or three weeks
Both of those happening on November the 5th.
12
after this or four weeks after this, before it became public
13
and before she filed, was the dominant theme of her
14
communications with her to you that she wanted reconciliation?
15
16
17
A:
So you're basically talking about that entire window
of time is that right?

Q:
Well not the entire.
I want--depending on what your
18
answer is then I'm going to ask you when the tone changed.
19
terms of weeks, I know you don't have dates.
20
assume, as we have been, this happened September 26th and on
21
the other end of the spectrum is November the 5th.
22
with me?
But let's
Are you
23
A:
Okay.
24
Q:
Did her attitude in what she was saying and all

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
In
DIRECT EXAMINATION .OF R. SNIFFEN BY R. HARDIN
change or evolve to a particular approach during that
timeframe?
A:
Yes.
Q:
All right.
In the first three or four weeks after
this happened how would you characterize what her attitude
was?
A:
Can you remind me of the date that it happened?
Q:
September 26th.
89
third week in October.
So that would mean by the middle,
Another way to look at it is a
10
reference of two weeks or so, and these are not automatic
11
dates I'm just trying to give you a frame.
12
segments of the time between when it happened and when she
13
filed charges.
Can we look at
You with me?
14
A:
15
Q:
Can you describe for the Judge the development or
am.
16
what the attitudes were.
17
changing?
First all did her attitude start
18
A:
Yes it did.
19
Q:
Can you put a rough timeframe about that?
20
A:
Well it's probably important to say that the first--
21
around the first two weeks of October my wife and I were
22
actually gone.
23
completely off the grid.
24
during the course of that time.
We were actually out of the country so we were

There was no communication at all

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90
Q:
Okay.
A:
So with that being said I believe that the evolution
that it took was from a broken heart, longing for love and
reconciliation to .. anger and .a little bit of revenge.
Q:
itself?
A:
8
9
And when did that latter attitude begin to show
I think we returned back into the country around the
12th or the 13th of October.

Q:
Let me stop you there.
At the time you left the
10
first of October, how would you have characterized her
11
attitude about what had happened on the 26th?
12
A:
The 26th being the date of the incident?
13
Q:
Yes, that week after the incident.
14
Before you went
on your trip--
15
A:
Mm-hmm.
16
Q:
-- if you were sitting there now how would you have
17
18
characterized her attitude?
A:
Very similar as it had been.
And that was shock and
19
surprise that this had happened, could not believe his
20
behavior, angry over this new development as far as the future
21
of their relationship, a broken heart--I mean that would kind
22
of sum it up for me.
23
24
Q:
All right.
Did she still seem to want to get back
together then?
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91
A:
I couldn't say.
Q:
Okay.
A:
When we returned I felt like the anger and different
Then what was it like when you returned?
things like that.had kind of really settled in.
Almost like
she was in a position where she was almost embracing the fact
that there was no going back, like, there was no future for
this relationship, those kinds of things that she--that
weren't there when I left.
mind those might have been a possibility but when I came back
So when I left I think that in her
10
I feel like she was much more settled with the possibility
11
that they would not reconcile.
12
13
Q:
All right.
questions if I may.
14
A:
Okay.
15
MR. HARDIN:
16
May I have just a second, Your
Honor?
17
THE COURT:
18
19
I want to see if I can go to a series of
Q:
You may.
Did she ever call or write you on multiple occasions
and tell you that her intention was to take Kurt down?
20
MS. MCNEICE:
21
MR. HARDIN:
I'm sorry, take Kurt--?

Down.
22
A:
Writing me?
23
Q:
Or calling you and telling, did she ever say that to
24
you?
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THE COURT:
92
Mr. Hardin, this is a witness that
I'm not going to allow you to lead, sir.
recollection of events has been sufficiently sketchy but
wil~.:,n.:ot
The witness'
permit you to lead this witness.

MR. HARDIN:
Your Honor, I'm not leading.
I'm
asking a specific prior statement as to whether or not
that was said or not.
10
THE COURT:
Understood.
understand what the Court's saying.

Q:
But you need to

You may proceed.
Would you tell me in your own words what she started
11
saying that made you say her attitude changed?
12
things did she start saying?
13
14
MS. MCNEICE:
What kinds of
I'm going to object.
This has
been asked and answered at least four times.
15
THE COURT:
16
MS. MCNEICE:
I will allow that answer.

May I ask then that he give us a
17
specific timeline if he's talking about certain weeks in
18
October, at the end of the time--
19
20
THE COURT:
I think the witness has
characterized the timeline probably as best he can.
21
MS. MCNEICE:
22
THE COURT:
Thank you.
Your objection is overruled.
23
A:
Can you repeat that?
24
Q:
Sure.
Would you tell me in your own words what type

Phone: 212-346-6666 * Fax: 888-412-3655
of things, if any, that she said that led you to describe it
as wanting revenge?
A:
Well the change in the comments went from things
that were . fo.cused on the relationship and the love aspect of
the relationship, it kind of went from that to talking more
along the lines of--
Q:
[interposing] Wait a minute now, I don't want along
the lines.
specific as you can the thirigs she said.
10
A:
What I want you to do is try to remember as
Well to answer your question on why I believe it
11
turned to the issue of revenge or that kind of a mindset was
12
because the things that were said were speaking directly to
13
things that were not emotional in nature, they were more
14
technical in nature.
15
about things like his career and the benefit that she played
16
there, the role that she played--
17
Q:
93
So they were--she would make comments
[interposing] Excuse me, you're characterizing them.
18
I don't want you characterize them right now.
I want you to
19
if you will just tell me what you remember her saying.
20
A:
Can you tell me again what--
21
Q:
[interposing] Specifically if you could just imagine
22
what the words were, what kinds of things did she actually
23
say?
24
A:
Okay.
So you want me to say what I remember to be

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94
the exact words?
Q:
Yes.
A:
Okay.
So that would have been things like I
sacrificed my non-profit and my business to focus my efforts
solely on his career and to focus on how the media and the fan
base see him.
the opinion of the fans and the media and things like that
from a PR perspective.
resources and made sacrifices in doing that and he's not going
10
Turning his career completely around, turning
to walk away from me.
I've put in all kinds of time and
So is that what you mean by specific?
11
Q:
Well whatever--
12
A:
[interposing] Because that was what I heard.
13
Q:
-- she said.
14
A:
That's what I heard, yes.
15
Q:
Did she ever talk to you in terms of what she
16
intended to do about his career?
17
A:
She intended to destroy it.
18
Q:
Did she say that?
19
A:
Yes.
20
Q:
Can you give the Court the best memory you can of
21
the exact words you remember her saying?
22
A:
I will destroy him.
23
Q:
When did she say that?
24
Did she say it more than
once first of all?

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DIRECTEXAMINATION OF R. SNIFFEN BY R. HARDIN
1
2
3
4
5
A:
Thosei'specific woids not more than once.
That vibe
and feeling, yes.

Q.:
Did she say anything else?
Did she ever use the
words take him down?

A:
Yes.
MS. MCNEICE:
6
7
Your Honor, I would suggest that
that's leading and that's not what he said.
THE COURT:
MR. HARDIN:
Sustained.
I'm sorry, I'm asking--if I may,
The reason I'm asking
10
Your Honor, just for the record.
11
these--she specifically denied saying certain things.
12
then to prove up a prior inconsistent statement, I need
13
to put in exactly did you ever say so and so--did she
14
ever say so and so to you.
15
specific things that I asked her on the cross.
16
all due respecti t's riot a leading question to ask did
17
say so and so on a prior date.
18
not.
19
-the questions are right out of the transcript of her
20
testimony.
21
95
So
She has denied saying

And so in
She has testified she did
That's why I wanted to get into specific questions-
THE COURT:
I understand what you're saying,
22
Mr. Hardin.
My understanding from what I've heard from
23
this witness is .that his specific recollection of what
24
people have said to him is sufficiently poor.

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That
96
suggesting what someone may or may not have said to him
on a particular occasion may be tantamount to leading.
I'll allow you to continue to ask the questions but there
will
sustained.
Q:
~ome.a
You may continue.
Did she ever tell you that her intention was to take
Kurt down?
MS. MCNEICE:
8
9
point when it's going to end up being
just--
10
THE COURT:
11
MS. MCNEICE:
12
THE COURT:
13
I'm going to object again.
I understand-I understood the Court-I did say that I would permit him
to ask the question, ma'am.
14
MS. MCNEICE:
15
THE COURT:
16
MS. MCNEICE:
You may be seated.
That particular question?

Yes.
Thank you.
17
Q:
Did she?
18
A:
Yes.
19
Q:
On one or more occasions?
20
A:
More occasions than one.
21
Q:
So if I ask--what is your answer if I ask you did
22
she ever tell you on multiple occasions that her intention was
23
to take Kurt down?
24
MS. MCNEICE:
Objection.
Asked and answered.

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He said more than one time.
that as multiple.
3
4
MR. HARDIN:
97
I don't know if he describes
And there's a specific reason I
ask those exact words.
THE COURT:
I understand the specific reason
that you've asked those exact words.
adding up his testimony to get to where you're going, Mr.
Hardin.
The objection is sustained.
10
MS. MCNEICE:
Q:
And I'm capable of
Thank you.
Mr. Sniffen, the Court has questioned whether or not
11
your memory is specific--is sufficiently specific for you to
12
remember certain things with accuracy.
13
A:
Mm-hmm.
14
Q:
Would you tell us please just how specific in your
15
view your memory is as to these conversations you've had with
16
her over those periods of weeks?
17
A:
18
at all.
19
Q:
How about as to the words themselves?
20
A:
The words themselves I'm certain.
21
22
23
24
To the date and time of them, my memory is not good
If I wasn't I
wouldn't be saying it.
Q:
And are you certain as to the general timeframe
these statements were made to you?
A:
Yes.

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1
2
4
5
6
Q:
And what is the general timeframe these statements
were made to you?

A:
Well I'll generalize it the most I can and that is
from the time the incident to the time this went public.
Q:
All right.
And at the time this went public did she
continue to talk to you?
A:
No.
Q:
All right.
98
Before this went public did you continue
through those two weeks or so--or three weeks in October to
10
have contact with her?
And by that I mean after you returned
11
to the country, did you in fact have contact with her going
12
all the way up until it became public?
13
A:
Yes.
14
Q:
From the time you came back in the country.
15
A:
Yes.
16
Q:
And during these times that you have described for
17
the testimony for the Court and for the record, when she would
18
say these things give me a--would that have been from the time
19
you came back into country until the filing of these charges
20
on the 5th of November?
21
A:
Urn--
22
Q:
There's a three week window there, that's all I'm
23
asking.
24
A:
I understand.
And for me I just have to either put

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
it before we left the country or when we get back and I just
can't, I just don't know.
Q:
Okay.
Really I just don't know.
During the time that you--once you came back
into the country, did you have--did she ever say anything to
you about a car?
About Kurt and a car.
A:
After we returned?
Q:
Yes.
A:
After we came back into the country?
Q:
Yes.
10
A:
I don't know if it was before we left or after we
11
returned.
12
Q:
All right.
13
A:
In regards to a car?
14
Q:
Yes.
15
and $90,000?
16
A:
And what did she say?
Did she ever make any reference to you, a car
She had made a comment that she was--that if he
17
thought he was going to buy her off with a $90,000 car and
18
leave her with just that that he had another thing coming.
19
20
Q:
Did she ever say to you I'm going to get reimbursed
for everything that I ever did for his career as a PR person?
21
MS. MCNEICE:
22
MR. HARDIN:
23
24
99
Objection.
Leading.
It's an exception to the hearsay
rule, Your Honor.

MS. MCNEICE:
I didn't say it was hearsay.

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MR; HARDIN:
Well by definition asking about a
prior inconsistent statement has to be leading.
100
THE COURT:
Asking this witness about this
witness' prior inconsistent statement?
MR. HARDIN:
No, asking this proving up a prior
inconsistent statement based on her denying having made
it.
Witness says X, we contend that's not true.
the person she denied making the statement to did she
10
In all due respect, Judge, it's the standard way.

We then ask
make that statement to you--
11
THE COURT:
I'll allow you to continue, Mr.
12
Hardin, as long as you want to continue with this
13
witness.
14
Q:
You may continue.
Did she say--
15
MR. HARDIN:
I think the question was did I
16
want to give you a copy of the transcript or refer you to
17
it.
18
19
THE COURT:
I can refer
to it.
20
21
I've got a transcript.
MR. HARDIN:
Q:
I know.
Thank you, Judge.
Did she ever say to you I will destroy him--in
22
addition to myself getting compensated I'm going to destroy
23
his career?
24
MS. MCNEICE:
Objection.
That was asked and

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DIRECT EXAMINATION :oF R. SNIFFEN BY R. HARDIN
answered.
one time I will destroy him.
He has already testified that she said to him
THE COURT:
answered, Mr. Hardin.
Q:
I believe it has been asked and
Do you recall asking her anything about whether he
had been drinking that night of the 26th?
A:
Yes.
Q:
What did you ask her and what did she say?
A:
Had he been drinking was my question and her
10
response was no.
11
Q:
And when did that happen?
12
A:
When she called from her vehicle when she was
13
101
leaving.
14
Q:
Now if I give you dates and say that this particular
15
case first had hearings on December the 16th and the 17th,
16
during that timeframe or shortly after that timeframe did you
17
begin to receive some texts again from Ms. Driscoll?
18
A:
Can you ask me again?
19
Q:
The hearings let's assume were December 16th and
21
A:
That's these hearings here.
22
Q:
These hearings.
23
A:
Okay.
24
Q:
All right.
20
Based on what date?
17th.
And after Ms. Driscoll's allegations

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102
became public, did you continue to hear from her or did that
stop?
A:
That stopped.
Q:
And then when did you next hear from her?
A:
The most recent time that I've heard from her was in
6
7
December.
Q:
Okay.
And how were you hearing from her?
What
happened?
A:
I received a text message from her.
10
Q:
And by the way right after it happened or right
11
after this became public, did you receive a communication from
12
her that somebody was going to be calling you from NASCAR?
13
A:
Yes.
14
Q:
And do you recall the name of the man that was going
15
to call you?
16
A:
John Bobo.
17
Q:
And do you know one way or the other what his
18
position is with NASCAR?
19
A:
No.
20
Q:
All right.
21
22
What did Ms. Driscoll want you to do
regarding Mr. Bobo?
A:
She was letting me know that she had given him my
23
contact information and that he was going to be contacting me.
24
And she asked me to speak honestly with him when he calls.

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103
Q:
All right.
A:
He did.
Q:
How soon after this all became public do you think
And then did he call you?
he call,ed:- y_o.u?
A:
I don't know.
Q:
All right.
A:
I did.
Q:
And you basically tell Mr. Bobo what you've been
And did you speak with him?
telling the Court?
10
A:
Yes.
11
Q:
And did she contact you by text or by phone to tell
12
you that?
13
A:
Regarding John Bobo I believe it was a text message.
14
Q:
Okay.
15
Now was that shortly after it became public?
If you recall.
16
A:
Yes.
17
Q:
All right.
So that would have been some contact you
18
had with her after it became public.
19
you had until December?
20
A:
Is that the only contact
No, there would have been some random contact.
21
also sent me an email that was--it was actually sent to
22
someone else but I was copied on the email.
23
form of communication.
24
Q:
So that was a
What was that about?

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
She
A:
That
was-~I
believe it was a detective.
104
I'm really
not sure who the person was--the recipient of the email was.
I was just copied on it.
Q:. ,:::-AJ::L.right.
A:
I did receive a phone call from him, yes.
Q:
Did you talk to him?
A:
I have not spoken with him, no.
Q:
How come?
A:
No, he's called me and I hit redial on my phone and
Did Detective Wood here call you?
Did y'all just miss or what?
10
it called back and then it just rang and rang with no
11
voicemail.
12
came to find out much later that by hitting redial I actually
13
was not calling him.
14
where I was calling but it wasn't dialing him and there was
15
another phone number or his cell phone.
16
17
18
19
20
21
And I did that a handful of times.
Apparently I was calling--I don't know
Q:
All right.
Did he try to reach you again after
A:
No, he only left the one message when he called the
that?
one time.
Q:
All right.
So at this stage you have not had an
interview by him?
22
A:
That's correct.
23
Q:
All right.
24
And then I
Have you talked to anybody within law
enforcement about this?

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
A:
No.
Q:
Okay.
Now .did you indicate--did we attempt to get
you to come testify back in December?
A:
Did you ask me to testify?
Q:
All right.
A:
I said no.
Q:
All right.
A:
Because I felt that this was for an order of
Yes.
And what did you tell us?
And why did you say no?
protection in Family Court versus any kind of a criminal
10
proceeding with obviously much more on the line.
11
thought the matter whether he could be within 50 feet of
12
someone or not didn't merit me coming out here and possibly
13
having my integrity questioned.
14
15
105
Q:
way.
What changed your mind?
And I
So-Well let me put it this
Did you only very recently agree to come in?
16
A:
Yes.
17
Q:
Why did you do that?
18
A:
Well it had been over too many conversations to
19
count that my wife and I had about this.
The one thing we
20
both agreed upon is what I had to share I would have to share
21
at some point.
22
through life and not share these things.
23
matter of when--when is the right time to do that.
24
think we just really felt like we could--we just wanted before
That I was going to be able to just skate

It was always a

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
And I
106
this continued on and--
MS. MCNEICE: . Objection.
To the extent that
he's making comments that might include his wife and that
should be hearsay.
or impressions of his own that's how he should-THE COURT:
If he has some comments or positions
He can talk about the discussions
with his wife that he had that caused his motivation to
change.
A:
You may continue, sir.
And we basically just--we were just uneasy with the
10
fact of feeling like there were some things that I knew and
11
experiences that I had and words that I had heard from people.
12
And we couldn't just not say anything.
13
ultimately going to held accountable to a Court that was much
14
higher than this one and we needed to step forward and say
15
something now.
16
Q:
You mean the Court upstairs?
17
A:
That's right.
18
Q:
All right.
That we were
I want to ask you now--I'm going to show
19
you what's been marked as R20 and ask you to identify it for
20
me.
21
messages from her in December?
Now first of all, did you receive a series of text
22
A:
Yes.
23
Q:
And were those text messages on your cell phone?
24
A:
Yes.
Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
107
Q:
And have you.made those text messages available to
A:
Yes.
Q:
And were they put in a form off of your phone that
us?
appears before you in R20?
A:
Yes.
Q:
I want you to look at R20-MS. MCNEICE:
8
9
10
referred to as R20.
I'll note that it has not been
admitted and marked for identification--
11
THE COURT:
12
MS. MCNEICE:
13
THE COURT:
14
Your Honor, this is being
Q:
Understood.
-- at this time.
I got it.
I want you to look at R20 and tell us whether or not
15
each of these entries are verbatim and accurate renditions of
16
text messages you received from Ms. Driscoll.
17
time and look at each paragraph.
18
19
A:
Just take your
Yes.
MS. MCNEICE:
May I ask again the specific
20
question he was responding to at that particular time.
21
Or there were actually two questions.
22
THE COURT:
I think the question is whether or
23
not the contents of the document before him constituted a
24
verbatim recitation of the content of text messages sent

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
108
to the witness .. by Ms. Driscoll in the month of December
of last year.
MS. MCNEICE:
3
4
These four text messages were
sent from her, is that the question?

THE COURT:
That was my understanding of the
question that was asked of the witness.
A:
If the question that's being asked is if these four
were sent to me--
Q:
Yes.
10
A:
No, then the answer is no.
Because this is a
11
conversation but three were sent to me and one was sent by me.
12
If that makes sense.
13
14
THE COURT:
Q:
All right.
Okay.
Were each of these conversations that
15
either--communications that you had with Ms. Driscoll in
16
December?
17
A:
Yes.
18
Q:
All right.
And because I misspoke, the first
19
paragraph who sent that?
Without going into the contents of
20
it, who sent the first paragraph?
21
A:
Ms. Driscoll sent that.
22
Q:
And then who sent the second paragraph?
23
A:
Ms. Driscoll.
24
Q:
Then who sent the third paragraph?

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
A:
I did.
Q:
To whom?
A:
To Ms. Driscoll.
Q:
A:
Ms. Driscoll.
Q:
Okay.
109
yAnd?c':tben who sent the fourth paragraph?
So with that explanation do all of--does
every entry on this page reflect text messages either sent by
Ms. Driscoll to you or you to Ms. Driscoll?
A:
Yes.
10
Q:
All right.
11
12
MR. HARDIN:
I move to introduce Respondent's
20, Your Honor.
13
THE COURT:
So I have just a few questions for
14
you before the Court decides whether to admit the
15
document.
16
testified contains the substance of some text messages.
17
Is that document something you printed off your phone?
18
A:
This document here?
19
THE COURT:
20
your hand.
21
A:
22
23
24
The document that you have before you, you've
Yes, sir, the document that's in
No, this was not a screen shot or something printed
directly from my phone.

THE COURT:
No.
Okay.
So is that a document to
your understanding that was prepared by someone?

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
A:
110
Yes.
THE COURT:
Okay.
How did you transmit to
whoever prepared this document, the content of your text
messages?
A:
I handed them my cell phone.

THE COURT:
6
7
phone?
A:
Correct.
THE COURT:
You handed the person your cell
Okay.
And then the person wrote
10
down or transcribed what was in your cell phone?
11
A:
That's my understanding.
12
THE COURT:
13
MR. HARDIN:
Okay.
I believe that I can say that
14
person the testimony would be, if you want us to do a
15
chain, would be that he gives his cell phone and that is
16
emailed to us so we can then transcribe it on to here.

THE COURT:
17
Okay.
So your testimony, sir, is
18
that you gave this cell phone to some person--
19
A:
Correct.
THE COURT:
20
21
your cell phone?
22
A:
-- who then typed up what was in
I'm assuming that that's what they did.
23
know what they did with it.
24
and then I handed my phone to someone.
I don't
But I pulled it up on my phone

I'm guessing that's

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
where they might have
THECOURT:
2
3
A:
MR. HARDIN:
A:
this from.
Who did you hand your phone to?
I think I handed it to--
4
5
gotte~
Mr. Yarbrough [phonetic]?
Yes.
THE COURT:
Okay.
So you handed the phone to
Mr. Yarbrough then did you see what he did with it?
A:
I believe he handed the phone to--I don't know your
name, I'm sorry.
10
11
A:
12
THE COURT:
There person sitting next to him.
THE COURT:
Okay.
Yes.
13
person did with it?
14
A:
And did you see what that
I believe they were taking down the information.
15
were sitting in the presence of each other and I believe
16
that's what she was doing.
17
shoulder.
THE COURT:
18
19
information?
20
A:
21
111
We
Although I wasn't right over her
So they were writing down the
I believe so.
THE COURT:
Okay.
And have you reviewed the
22
text messages that are purported to be contained in that
23
document to determine that they're the same--the exact
24
same language that was :in your phone?

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
DIRECT EXAMINATION oF R. SNIFFEN BY R. HARDIN
A:
You mean have I-THE COURT:
Have you reviewed your phone to
determine that that's what's on it?
A:
Oh have I held my phone in one hand and this
document and compared the two?

THE COURT:
112
Okay.
No I have not.
Do you have your phone in
order to--well obviously you don't have you phone, they
don't let you bring it in.
A:
No I don't.
THE COURT:
10
Do you have it with you somewhere
11
outside the courthouse where you can access it?
12
A:
I do, yes.
THE COURT:
13
Okay.
I'm going take a recess and
14
order that you can do that because what I want to make
15
sure of is that you can testify to me that that document
16
contains the exact language that's on your cell phone--
17
A:
I understand.
18
THE COURT:
19
MR. HARDIN:
-- before I admit the document.

And, Your Honor, the other
20
possibility would be if the Court wanted to permit him to
21
step off the stand, I could very quickly ask each of
22
those people what they then did with it so that the
23
record would have the chain of it.
24
THE COURT:
The only concern that I have is

Phone: 212-346~6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
113
that the witness be able to tell me that what's on that
document is what's on his cell phone.
MR. HARDIN:
THE COURT:
That's fair enough.

If he can tell me that that's
exactly what's on the phone, the documents coming in.
MR. HARDIN:
Okay.
THE COURT:
MS. MCNEICE:
THE COURT:
All right, thank you.

Thank you.
We'll take a recess, sir, in order
10
that you can do that.
11
phone into the courthouse for that purpose.
12
A:
Okay.
THE COURT:
13
14
We'll allow you to bring your cell
And then we'll give you some time
to just take a look at your phone and--
15
MR. HARDIN:
[interposing] I think we'll
16
probably have to--we'll have to go back to the hotel to
17
get it.
18
A:
No it's in the car.
19
bring it in the building.
20
THE COURT:
They just told me I couldn't
You can't bring it in the building
21
but we'll let you bring it in now.
22
and you can get it.
He'll give you a tag
In recess.
23
THE CLERK:
24
[END 436261 20150113-0914 Part1]
All rise.

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
[START 436261 20150113-1155 Part2]
THE CLERK:
Back in session.
THE COURT:
All right.
.:~::Why
Please be seated.
Good morning again,
eve;r::yone.;.;
and when Mr. Hardin's back in you can let me know.
right thank you.
.don't we just come off the bench briefly
THE CLERK:
[END 436261 20150113-1155 Part2]
[START 436261 20150113-1157 Part3]

THE CLERK:
10
11
114
All
All rise.
Family Court back in session.
Please be seated.
THE COURT:
12
All right.
Now we're back on the
13
record.
And when we left Mr. Sniffen was going to review
14
the contents of his cell phone as it related to text
15
messages as that were contained on his cell phone and
16
determine whether or not the document before him
17
contained a verbatim recitation of what's in those text
18
messages.
19
A:
And have you been able to do that, sir?
I have looked it over and it's actually--what's
20
written here is verbatim but there is actually one segment
21
that is missing.
22
actually one whole segment that's not in here.
23
24
So in the back and forth text there's
THE COURT:
Okay.
And that's fine.
Folks can
ask you about that since you have your phone now.
Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
A:
Okay.
THE COURT:
115
But the only thing that's important
for the Court's purposes is whether what's contained in
that document is verbatim from what's in your phone.
A:
And it is.
THE COURT:
Okay.
Thank you, sir.
Ms.
McNeice, as it relates to the exhibit, do you have any
objection to its admission.

MS. MCNEICE:
With the provision that it's now
10
been declared to be incomplete, yeah that is my
11
objection, Your Honor.

THE COURT:
12
Okay.
Well certainly I'm going to
13
admit the document and I'll certainly allow you to
14
question Mr. Sniffen with the respect to the extent that
15
it's incomplete.
16
admit the remainder of whatever is in the document you
17
may.
So that will be Respondent's 20.

[Whereupon Respondent's Exhibit 20 was admitted
18
19
And to the extent that you wish to
into evidence.]
20
THE COURT:
21
MR. HARDIN:
22
THE COURT:
23
24
Q:
document.
Thank you.
May I proceed, Your Honor?
Sure.
Now if you would let me give you--it's the same

And let me ask you if you would for the record, the
Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
DIRECT .EXAMINATION OF R. SNIFFEN BY R. HARDIN
116
top of it says Saturday, December the 20th, 6:36 p.m. is that
right?
A:
Yes.
Q:
And when you're saying there was some--one exchange
missing is it--does that exchange come before or after this
date?
A:
That exchange comes on that date.
Q:
On December 20th?
A:
10
Q:
All right.
12
A:
From her.
13
Q:
All right.
15
A:
No.
16
Q:
Okay.
17
A:
After.
18
Q:
All right.
11
14
And was that exchange from you or from
her?
Does it come before this time of 6:36
p.m. ?
So when we come to 6:36p.m. if
19
something wasn't captured, you've got your phone in front of
20
you correct?
21
A:
Yes.
22
Q:
Then if you will read into the record what is
23
24
missing.
A:
Okay.
Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
Q:
Do I understand correctly that all of this is
correct but there1s one exc~ange you had during this time
period that is not captured?
A:
That's correct.
Q:
All right.
A:
Okay.
Q:
Okay~
10
So we'll put that into evidence as we
get to it chronologically.
117
Now would you read for the record the
Saturday, December 20th at 6:36 p.m. what she sent you?
A:
I want you to know that Kurt's attorneys have made
11
it sound like you are coming to testify for him.
12
what you'd say because I've only told you what happened that
13
night.
14
you and believed in our friendship.
15
awful things that I've never sa.id to you including "I'm going
16
to take him down."
17
his alcoholism and depression.
18
battle with me to help.
19
true because I know I've never told you anything like that.
20
also want you to know that Kurt has my ex-husband testifying
21
for him.
22
from me.
23
24
Q:
I'm not sure
I called you after he assaulted me because I trusted

They claim all kinds of
I only ever wanted Kurt to get help with

I thought you were in that
I hope what they are saying isn't
They are both now working together to take my son
All right .. Let me ask you about a couple of things
that she says there.
Were you aware--did you follow the

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
118
opening statement so the testimony or evidence in this case
that this Judge was hearing on the 16th and 17th of December,
just several days before this text?
A:
Did I--what do you mean?
Q:
At the time that it was going on, were you aware of
what was being said here in court?
A:
No.
Q:
Okay. Had you had 'any knowledge at the time she sent
this on December the 20th what Mr. Liguori may have said
10
during his opening statement or what I may have asked her
11
about during her testimony?
12
that at the time of December 20th?
Did you have any knowledge of
13
A:
No.
14
Q:
Okay, all right.
15
A:
I don't know who that is.
16
Q:
All right.
I don't know who Liguori is.
And so when this thing of I'm going to
17
take him down we've had several questions about that.
18
And when she said she only wanted to get help with his
19
alcoholism and depression, is that accurate that she was
20
always frequently talking to you about what she continued was
21
Kurt's alcoholism and depression?
22
23
24
A:
Okay?
So the question is was she--did she talk to me about
those?
Q:
In your times with her over the last two or three
Ubiqus/Nation-Wide R:eporting & Convention Coverage

22 Cortlandt Street- :suite 802, New York, NY 10007
Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
119
years.
A:
Yes.
Q:
All right.
Did you yourself ever have any
independent knowledge of one way or the other as to whether he
suffered from alcoholism or depression?
A:
Outside of what she had said to me?
Q:
Yes.
A:
No.
Q:
All right.
So during the time that you talked to
10
Kurt and during the time you counseled with him--during all
11
that period of time, did you ever have any evidence from him
12
or from any other source other than her concerning him having
13
possible alcohol--possibly being an alcoholic or depression?
14
A:
An alcoholic and alcoholism?
No, I don't have any--
15
I never experienced anything firsthand and he never said
16
anything to me.
Is that your question that he said it to me?
17
Q:
Yes.
18
A:
No, he has not.
19
Q:
All right.
So whenever you would conversations that
20
she's talking about here where she wanted Kurt to get help,
21
and says here that all I ever wanted to get help with his
22
alcoholism and depression.
23
telling you during those two or three years?
24
A:
Is that all based on what she was
Yes.
Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
Q:
Okay.
And when she says I thought you were in that
battle with me to help.
you try to help or make suggestions to her in that respect?
A:
Q:
120
..:;~Jtt>.sol.utely,
When she would to you about it would
yes.
And when she says I've never told you anything like
that referring back to her--whether or not she said I'm going
to take him down, is it still your testimony that she said
that to you?
A:
Yes.
10
Q:
Any question in your mind?
11
A:
No.
12
Q:
Any bad memory about it?
13
A:
I don't understand the question.
14
Q:
Is your memory uncertain about that at all?
15
A:
On whether or not she . said it?

.
16
Q:
Yes.
17
A:
No.
18
Q:
Okay.
Let's go to the next entry.
She--there's a
19
gap here between the 20th and the 22nd.
And I believe you
20
said your phone has something else on the same date the 20th?
21
A:
Yeah.
22
Q:
Can you go to that and tell us what date that was
23
24
and what time it was.
A:
The phone did not insert a date or a time which

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
121
tells me that it happened at the same time.
it's a separate text that was composed, since it was done so
close to that previous one my phone does not insert a date or
a time.
Q:
Okay.
A:
-- as the first one.
Q:
All right.
So.I'm guessing it .was the same time--
And we know it's certainly before
December 22nd right?
Which is going to be the next one.
A:
Yes, that's correct.
10
Q:
All right.
11
was.
So even though
Can you read to the Court what that one
And is this a text from her?
12
A:
It is.
13
Q:
What does she say?
14
A:
It says when you gave me the advice that I could
15
never go back to Kurt and he crossed the line, I listened.
16
I told you that night
17
before I could call the police.
18
help and that's where I asked you to step in.
19
wanting him to get help is not being used against me.
20
Q:
Okay.
there~s
As
a lot going on with my custody

I always wanted him to get
I hope now my
Did you--is that an accurate statement as to
21
what you told her?
22
testified about you can't go back or once you cross that line
23
you can't go back.
24
A:
You testified about--you've already
.Did you tell her to not go back to him?
That was not my advice to her, no.

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
122
Q:
What was your advice to her?
A:
What--she had told me that that's her position and I
supported her position but I did not give her that advice to
do that.
Q:
So you never told her not to go back to Kurt?
A:
Correct.
Q:
Why would you not tell her that?
8
9
Or why are you so
certain you didn't tell her that?

A:
Because I just--I know me and the way I try to
10
counsel and encourage people and I would not have said that.
11
I just--I just wouldn't have said that.
12
Q:
Why not?
13
A:
Because it's not my decision to make.
14
Q:
Okay.
15
All right.
It's not something you try to
talk somebody into?
16
A:
It's just not my decision to make.
17
Q:
Okay.
18
A:
And I would not have said that.
19
Q:
All right.
20
Now is the next entry on your phone
Monday, December 22nd?
21
A:
Yes.
22
Q:
All right.
Then you can go back, if it's easier, to
23
look at the paper or R20.
Would you read for the record what
24
she sent two days later at 8:58 a.m.?

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
A:
123
I'm going to assume your silence means that you've
been working with Kurt and I don't understand why you would do
that.
I didn't make up the story when I called you that
night.
I have only asked you both to help Kurt get the
treatment and help he needed all these years.
texts prove this.
his hands on me especially after all I've done for him.
had no right to hurt me.
into the police.
10
son from me.
11
Q:
All of our
I'm angry and confused as to why he'd put

He
I will not apologize for turning him
He now has retaliating by trying to take my
Are you really going to stand by this?
Now you had not returned the email that she sent on
12
the 20th.
And then this next one stands for--the words
13
explain themselves.
14
in here that's--if everything here is accurate in terms of
15
what she's saying.
But I want to ask you if there's anything
Were you working with Kurt at that time?
16
A:
I would say yes.
17
Q:
In what way?
18
A:
Well I think our initial--when we were first
19
introduced to one another it was under the understanding that
20
he was experiencing some problems in his life and that I could
21
possibly help him with those things.
22
would be working with Kurt.
23
exchanged I believe that we had crossed into a friendship is
24
what I believe.
So in that instance I
But by the time this was

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
Q:
Yes.
You're talking about the overall two or three
year period that you've known him.
A:
Yes.
Q:
But if this was referring to that you've been
124
working with Kurt meaning in this case would that be accurate?
A:
Working with Kurt in this case?
Q:
Well look at it again and remember what the first
paragraph up there was about.

A:
10
Q:
A:
I can see that now that that would--yes I can see
Q:
Well if that was what was meant, would that be true?
Were you working with Kurt on this case at that time?
17
A:
No.
18
Q:
And what kind of contact did you have with us at
19
that now.
15
16
Well I'm only asking if that is what is meant.
can't say what it is.
13
14
So that it's saying
I'm working with him in this matter.
11
12
Oh I see what you're saying.
that time of December the 22nd, do you recall?
20
A:
I can't recall, no.
21
Q:
Had you had any personal contact with Kurt at that
22
time?
Did Kurt ask you to testify?
By text or in person.
23
A:
No, I don't believe so by this time.
24
Q:
All right.
Did Kurt ultimately ask you to testify

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
by phone or by text?
A:
I believe he did, yes.
Q:
And did you decline?
A:
I did.
Q:
All right.
125
And have we called and asked you to
testify?
A:
Yes.
Q:
And had you declined?
A:
Yeah I would have definitely declined, yeah.
10
Q:
Okay.
So at the time of December the 22nd at 8:58
11
a.m., what is your testimony as to whether there was any basis
12
for suggesting that you were working with us or Kurt?
13
A:
I was not.
14
Q:
Okay.
16
A:
I did.
17
Q:
And what time did you respond?
18
A:
1:37 p.m.
19
Q:
And for the record would you read what you wrote to
15
Now then you respond that same day do you
not?
20
her on December 22nd in response to her email earlier that
21
morning?
22
A:
Or text message--excuse me.

I said the delayed response is simply because I have
23
no idea what to say.
It's as simple as that.
This is the
24
first time we've heard from you at length since all of this
Phone: 212-346-6666 * Fax: 888-412-3655
went public.
hasn't changed.
one.
this point.I .. can't avoid some sort of fallout.
remains is for me to do what God directs me to do.
still trying to figure that out.
aside to bake cookies with our children.
focus at this moment.
we sincerely hope for the very best for you and Houston.
10
11
My belief that God called me to minister to Kurt

I've remained steadfast in this fact from day
Right now we are seeking God's counsel not man's.
At
All that
But not today.
And I'm
Today is set
And that's my sole
Our prayers for you haven't ceased and

Take
care.
Q:
Now at this time did you feel like you were kind of
12
being pulled back and forth by both sides?
13
MS. MCNEICE:
14
126
Objection.
Hearsay--or excuse
me, it is leading.
15
THE COURT:
That
on~
is sustained,
And at this time had you agreed to testify for
16
Q:
17
either side?
18
A:
No.
19
Q:
Now then on December the 22nd on that Monday, it
20
doesn't have a time.
Did she write you again?
21
phone indicate what time this last message was?
Does your cell
22
A:
No I think--
23
Q:
The last paragraph.
24
A:
I think it did the same thing like when they're

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
127
happening at the same time.
Q:
Okay.
A:
I don't even think it said Monday, December 22nd.
They were butted up against each other.
to make sure.
there was no date or time.
simultaneously again.
I can look at it just
Yeah those last two, mine and then her response

So they're happening
Q:
All right.
A:
I thought you were also called to minister to me.
What did she write you?
10
Are you saying that you are no longer willing to do that for
11
me and Houston?
12
There is a reason I didn't ask you to speak with my attorney.
13
I wanted you to be my minister.
14
incorrectly.
15
attorneys?
16
under the preacher/counselor privacy rule respected by law.
17
Am I
18
19
Am I
to understand you've chosen a side.
I hope I'm reading this
But am I to understand you're speaking to Kurt's

I always believe our conversations to be held
to understand that this has been breached.

Q:
How did you respond--did you respond to that
message?
20
A:
I did not.
21
Q:
And why not?
22
A:
Because it didn't merit a response.
23
Q:
In what way?
24
A:
I took it as the integrity of what I do to be
How did you take it?

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
2
3
questioned and I felt like it was a threat.

Q:
In fact as a result of this text what did you do?
Did you consult anyone?

A:
I did.
I went to my pastor who in turn went to some
of the legal team at our denominations corporate office.
Q:
And what were you trying to find out?
A:
If in fact I had done something that was illegal.
Q:
As to whether there was a pastor - - privilege?
A:
Yeah if there was some law that was--that I could
128
10
stand to be breaking.
11
this engagement with her.
12
brought up--I had never heard of the preacher/counselor
13
privacy rule.
14
out what this is.
Or had I broken some law just by having

I had no idea.
Once that was
But once I did I thought I probably should find
15
Q:
Yeah.
16
A:
So yeah.
17
Q:
And then as a result did you have any more contact
18
with her after this text message of December 22nd?
19
A:
With who?
20
Q:
With Ms. Driscoll.
21
A:
No.
22
Q:
Now when you decided to come forward, when did you
23
24
first notify us that you were willing to testify?

A:
Sunday.

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
DIRECT. EXAMINATION OF R. SNIFFEN BY R. HARDIN
129
Q:
This Sunday?
A:
Yes.
Q:
And were you offered to pay for your airfare for you
4
5
6
7
to come out here?
A:
I don't know that that was necessarily spoken of.
know that when I said I would come I expected you to.
Q:
All right. . And did you--was there any conversation
or so about you being--a room for you being paid for or
anything?
10
11
12
13
A:
No.
And it was never spoken directly to.
I just
said here's my name and here's my ID number and--
Q:
So you assumed that we were going to pay for your
airfare and your hotel?
14
A:
Absolutely.
15
Q:
And where are you staying?
16
A:
At the Dover Casino.
17
Q:
And do you have any idea how much your room cost?
18
A:
No clue.
19
Q:
And do you know what your airfare cost?
20
A:
No.
21
Q:
Did we do the booking for that?
22
A:
Yes.
23
Q:
Anything about
24
th~t
that would affect your
testimony?
, Ubiqus/Nation-Wide Reporting & Convention Coverage
Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
A:
That would affect my testimony?
Q:
Yeah.
A:
No.
Q: ';,.c: . Ha.s
130
anybody at any time ever threatened you if you
didn't come forward?
A:
No.
Q:
Has anybody offered to bribe you to come forward?
A:
No.
Q:
Can you imagine any reason if you were in agreement
10
and willing to come from California that whoever asked you to
11
come wouldn't be willing to pay for your airfare and your
12
room?
13
14
15
A:
No, I would assume that you don't want me to testify
Q:
All right.
then.
By the way there seems to be maybe some
16
misunderstanding when you said there would be a higher
17
authority than this Court you'd have to answer to.
18
higher authority did you mean?
19
THE COURT:
20
MR. HARDIN:
21
MS. MCNEICE:
22
I understood which one he meant.

All right.
I wanted to be sure.
I think that he described it as
upstairs, I think we all understand.
23
24
What
THE COURT:
There are people upstairs from here
but-Ubiqus/Nation-Wide Reporting & Convention Coverage

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
MS. MCNEICE:
THE COURT:
J:MR.- HARDIN:
THE COURT:
Q:
Some people did not, that's why I
Okay.
Now just a couple more things.

MR. HARDIN:
8
9
-- and some of them are higher
asked the question.
6
7
It's not Judge--
authorities than me but I understood which one he meant.
4
5
131
If I could have just a second,
Your Honor.
10
THE COURT:
11
MR. HARDIN:
12
THE COURT:
13
MS. MCNEICE:
Sure.
That's it, Judge.
Thank you.
Ms. McNeice?
Your Honor, I have some cross
14
examine which I can start at this time but I also have a
15
number of emails from Mr. Sniffen that--in exchanges
16
between he and my client that I'd like to print out and
17
make copies for everyone and use as exhibits.
18
for continuity sake it's best if we break now if we might
19
for lunch.
20
and proceed.
21
And maybe
And then I can bring those back to the Court
THE COURT:
All right.
So if we want to break
22
for lunch at this point, that would be fine.
23
you folks back here at about 1:15 or so, 1:20.
24
assume during that period of documents that will have

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
We'll see
And we'll
been prepared so that they can be accessed.
2
3
MR. HARDIN:
.MS. MCNEICE:
THE COURT:
MS. MCNEICE:
on call.
timeline.
All right.
That's fine.
And also I have another witness
I'm not sure-Okay.
Are there any other
witnesses after this one?
11
MR. HARDIN:
12
THE COURT:
14
No, I'm going to go get them now.
I again wanted to be able to give that person a
THE COURT:
13
Are there any copies that we could
be looking at during the lunch to save time?
10
132
then.
No, not from us.

No other witnesses after this one
Okay.
MS. MCNEICE:
All right.
So then we can start
15
rebuttal after this.
16
THE COURT:
17
MS. MCNEICE:
18
MR. HARDIN:
19
MS. MCNEICE:
20
THE CLERK:
All rise.
21
THE COURT:
We're in recess.
22
[END 436261 20150113-1157 Part3]
23
[START 436261 20150113-1328 Part4]
24
THE CLERK:
That's what I'm hearing.

Correct?
Your understanding?
Yes.
Fine, thank you.
All rise.
Family Court back in

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
session.
2
3
Please be seated.
THE COURT:
~ll
right.
Good afternoon,
everyone.
MR. HARDIN:
THE COURT:
133
Good afternoon.
Ms. McNeice, I think we left off at
cross.
MS. MCNEICE:
Yes, Your Honor.
Thank you.
As
it turned out, I'm not sure if it's over technician error
or the machine but I wasn't as successful as I wanted.
10
So we'll go without some of these other documents.

THE COURT:
11
It's up to you.
If there's a
12
telephone and you want me to read text messages, I can do
13
that into the record.
14
15
MS. MCNEICE:
Thank you for the _assistance.
16
THE COURT:
17
MS. MCNEICE:
18
CROSS EXAMINATION
19
BY CAROLYN MCNEICE
20
21
If we get to that point I will.
Q:
All right.
Yes.
Good afternoon, Mr. Sniffen.
You indicated you're
44 and you're from California, correct?
22
A:
Yes.
23
Q:
And you flew here.
24
A:
Last night.
When did you do that, sir?

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
134
Q:
Last night.
A:
Mm-hmm.
Q:
You arrived last night and stayed in Dover.
A:
Correct.
Q:
And somewhere during that time you met with Mr.
Hardin and--well one of his assistants and typed the messages
that you showed us earlier today.
A:
I don't know when they were typed but I did meet
with them this morning, yes.
10
Q:
This morning.
11
A:
Correct.
12
Q:
Okay.
13
And it sounds like you have an interesting
history all of which has led you to be able people today.
14
A:
I hope so.
15
Q:
Okay.
When youfirst met Patricia and Kurt did you
16
present yourself as someone that could help either one of them
17
individually or the two of them as a couple?
18
A:
Did I present myself as someone who could help them?
19
I believe so.
20
they had already believed that I was someone that could help
21
so I just continued on with that belief, yes.
22
Q:
I mean they approached me but as soon as they--
I see.
So when they approached you they already
23
knew the role you played for others, is that correct?
24
already knew that you were a minister or you had provided some
Phone: 212-346-6666 * Fax: 888-412-3655
They
CROSS EXAMINATION OF R. SNIFFEN BY C. MCNEICE
135
services to other people in counseling.
A:
I believe so.
Q:
Okay. ,And then you said you had dinner in Phoenix
at a time.
A:
Yes.
Q:
Was that the first time you went into any detail
7
8
9
10
11
12
about either one of them?

A:
It was more social.
I mean we didn't go in depth
with anyone's challenges or problems.
It was more just kind
of just getting to know one another.

Q:
Okay.
Again clarify for me if you recall when that
Phoenix dinner was.
13
A:
As far as the year?
14
Q:
Yes, do you recall, sir?
15
A:
Either two years ago--two years ago.
16
Q:
Two years ago, okay.
17
A:
Maybe three--I don't know.
18
Q:
At that time did Kurt relate to you any history of
19
I'm sorry.
alcohol abuse?
20
A:
No.
21
Q:
You indicated that you participate in 5 to 10 races
22
per year.
23
A:
That's correct.
24
Q:
Okay.
And do you receive funds for an organization

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
called The Outreach Organization that Nick Terry is with?
A:
The Motor Racing Outreach?
Q:
That's correct.
A:
I'm sorry what's the question?
Q:
Do you receive funds from them?
A:
Yes they help with my expenses.
Q:
Okay.
A:
In the amount of $300 per race weekend.
Q:
Per race weekend.
10
A:
Correct.
11
Q:
Is that a salary to you for working with them?
12
A:
It's not a salary to me.
13
anyway.
14
track.
15
136
Q:
It doesn't benefit me in
It helps to go towards the expenses of getting to the
I see.
And _cio you receive any funds from them from
16
for instance a collection that might be taken during a service
17
if you participate?
18
A:
No that goes to them.
19
Q:
Okay.
20
any work with them?
21
A:
I have.
22
Q:
Okay.
23
24
How about Armed Forces Foundation, do you do
What type of work have you done with them in
the past?
A:
Aside from serving at their events with live

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
137
performances, that would be where I would go and actually
perform a song.
of their fundraisers.
Q:
A:
That would be at their event.
I've done two
~Okay.
In addition to that I've done some graphic design
and layout work for their various efforts that they have. The
most recent being a education effort to educate young people
about Veteran's Day and just veterans in general on what they
do and that they're in your community and that kind of thing.
10
Q:
11
fundraisers?
12
A:
No.
13
Q:
I see.
14
All right.
Did they pay you for attending
But they covered my expenses.

How about the graphic design, do they pay
you for those services?
15
A:
I did get paid for that, yes.
16
Q:
Okay.
18
A:
They have, yes.
19
Q:
Not related to the work that is.
20
A:
That's correct.
21
Q:
Okay.
17
Did they ever make any other contributions to
you?
How about funds from Kurt Busch's business,
22
I'm not sure if it's a corporation or just what it is.
23
Mr. Busch ever make any direct contributions to you or your
24
ministry?
Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
Does
A:
He has, yes.
Q:
When was the last one, sir?
A:
I don't recall when the last one was.
Q:
Okay.
A:
Yes.
Q:
Was it in the last--
A:
That's last year, yes.
Q:
I apologize, I thought you were finished.
10
A:
No, yes.
11
Q:
Yes it was in 2014?
12
A:
Yes.
13
Q:
Was it in the last quarter of 2014?
14
A:
Maybe the last half of the year sometime.
15
Q:
Had he made contributions to your ministry in the
16
138
I'd have to
look.
Was it in 2014?
past?
A:
18
Q:
Did you ever send him bills directly for any of the
19
counseling that you might have done for instance either direct
20
counseling at a race or any counseling you might have done for
21
him over the phone or Skype or some other device?
22
A:
Absolutely not, no.
23
Q:
Okay.
24
A:
Yeah, I'm not a licensed counselor.
You provide that for free?

Phone: 212-346-6666 * Fax: 888-412-3655
139
Q:
I see.
A:
Yeah.
Q:
Do you hold any specific licenses, sir?
A:
Aside from being an ordained minister, I have been
an ordained minister but I'm not licensed to be a counselor or
a therapist or anything like that.
7
8
Q:
Okay.
And who provided you with your licensing for
your ordination?
A:
I was ordained under Set Free Worldwide Ministries.
10
Q:
Set--
11
A:
Set Free Worldwide Ministries.
12
Q:
And did you attend a particular educational
13
institution to obtain that certification or that title?
14
A:
No I did not.
15
Q:
Did Mr. Busch ever_tell you that he was taking any
16
17
medication such as Wellbutrin?

A:
I would definitely not know the name of any
18
medication so that would definitely be no to that.
19
ever tell me he was taking medication?
20
Q:
Only if you recall, sir.
21
A:
I don't recall if he told me that, no.
22
Q:
Okay.
Did he
Did Mr. Busch ever relate to you an incident
23
that occurred in May of 2012 in North Carolina where my client
24
indicated that he had caused an act of domestic violence?

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
1
2
A:
In other words would have done domestic violence
against another person?
Is that what you're asking me?
Q:
Against Ms. Driscoll.
A:
No he did not.
Q:
Okay.
10
At any time after this incident did Kurt
Busch ever tell you that he put his hands on Patricia's face?
A:
No.
8
9
140
THE COURT:
So did you ever discuss the
incident with Mr. Busch?

A:
We have not, no.
We have talked but when that
11
conversation started, right up front I told him I have no
12
interest in asking anything of you just so you know.
13
want to be here to encourage you and--
14
THE COURT:
I just
All right.
15
A:
Yeah.
16
Q:
So you never confronted him on this particular
17
incident.
18
A:
That's correct.
19
Q:
But Patricia did tell you about what happened on the
20
evening of the 26th of September correct?
21
A:
Yes she did.
22
Q:
She also told you that on September 27th that she
23
woke up and her bruises were worse and that she was in pain,
24
correct?

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
1
2
A:
I don't recall the date but yes I do recall her
telling me that.
Q:
Just give me a minute.
of your earlier testimony.
of domestic violence?
I just want to review some
Have you worked with other victims
A:
I have.
Q:
As part of your ministry, sir?
A:
Yes.
I mean I'm basically invited to places where
the people have a history of maybe drug and alcohol abuse.
10
And it's probably because of my history that they invite me
11
there.
12
a lot of people that deal with addiction.
13
times the things that go hand in hand with addiction are
14
abuse.
15
victims of domestic violence.
16
17
141
So inadvertently I end up--my wife and I both meeting

And some of the
So inadvertently yes I do come across people who are
Q:
I see.
Is your wife also an ordained minister with
the same ministry?
18
A:
She is not.
19
Q:
You indicated that after this incident during one of
20.
your conversations or texts that Patricia presented disbelief
21
and shock.
22
given what she had related to you?
23
24
A:
Did you find that those reactions were strange
I'm sorry I don't understand the question.
Disbelief and shock over what?

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
Q:
Those were your words,
sir, that she presented --
disbelief and shock.
A:
Q: , ,::I'he ,:incident _of September 26th.
A:
7
8
9
10
Over--?
Yes she did.
She made those statements to me, I
can't believe he did this to me, yes.

Q:
Okay.
Did you find that be an anticipated response
from somebody in her position?

A:
I find it to be consistent.
I've heard something
like that before in the past, yes.
11
Q:
Consistent with what, sir?
12
A:
With other women who have made allegations of
13
domestic abuse.
14
Q:
I see.
15
A:
Saying that they were surprised and in disbelief
16
17
142
that this had happened.

Q:
Just to clarify, sir, you've never had an
18
opportunity to--strike that.
You said you didn't talk to Kurt
19
about this.
20
approached you with questions that you anticipated as someone
21
looking for reconciliation.
22
can't he change, why is this happening, that sort of thing.
Then you indicated that for the next few days she
23
A:
Okay.
24
Q:
Okay.
They were asking questions, why
You said you went out of town and were out of

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
communication with Patricia for several days.
143
Could you tell
me again those dates?

A:
I believe it was the 1st or 2nd of October through
the 12th.::or';.l3:th..
Q:
10/1 to 10/12?
A:
Or 10/14.
Q:
Thereabouts.
A:
Yeah.
Q:
Okay.
And you said when you got home there was a
little different approach.
This is when you saw this feeling,
the broken heart turn to anger.

A:
I felt like there was more--that there was less--I'm
not sure, I know there's a word for it.
There was less belief
that maybe they could reconcile.

Q:. __Okay.
A:
I know there's a word for that but it's evading me
right now.
THE COURT:
Resignation.
A:
Yeah.
She was kind of there.
Q:
Not going to happen.
A:
Yeah.
Q:
Okay.
Were you familiar with any prior history of
Kurt Busch displaying any expressions of rage following races?

A:
That I witnessed myself?

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
Q:
144
No, that you had read about, did he ever tell you
about it, anything like that?

A:
Yeah I definitely came across that information,
Q:
Okay.
A:
I would say that we touched on that, yes.
Q:
Okay.
A:
Yes.
Q:
Did he ever discuss with you addressing his issue of
A:
We never used the term rage.
yeah.
Did he ever discuss that with you?
You did touch on that.
rage?
So to answer the word
rage I've never dealt with that question with him.

Q:
Okay.
Anger--what word did you use?
A:
A temper, you know, having a short temper, those
k_incis of_ things.

Q:
Okay.
A:
9 times out of 10 I would immediately try to quote a
scripture.
What type of comments did you give him?
Some sort of passage from the bible that speaks to
issues of self control and patience and that these things were
not beyond reach, that there was actually hope and that change
was actually possible--real authentic lasting change is
possible.
Q:
So I would have quoted a scripture.

Okay.
THE COURT:
Do you recall specifically though,

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CROSS. EXAMINATION OF R. SNIFFEN BY C. MCNEICE
sir.
14 5
I mean you're .telling us that that's what you would
have done--that you believe that you would have done.

But do you actually recall having done that?
A:
Absolutely.
I would say that a great majority of my
conversations with him were sharing scripture.
So yeah I
would have definitely done that.

THE COURT:
Okay. Sir, was there a period of
time during which you counseled Mr. Busch?
Has it been
this whole time or was there some discrete period of time

when you counseled him?
A:
I guess what I'm struggling with is the term counsel
like there was some season where I was a role of some sort of
a counselor outside of there just being a friendship that kind
of ensued.
So I'm not really sure where to draw those lines.
I would have--I think I mentioned earlier that I would send

him like a scripture a few times a week, at least once a week
just to be there to encourage and to uplift.
Not necessarily
meaning that he was facing some sort of a challenge.
He could
have been having the best day of his life but I still wanted
to insert some sort of an encouraging word.
Do you know what
I mean?
THE COURT:
A:
I do.
So I'm not sure when they landed on bad days or good
days all the time, I don't know.

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
THE COURT:
And so you have
characterized your relationship with Mr. Busch as more as
a friendship than a counselor/client relationship.
A:
I would say so, yes.
THE COURT:
Okay.
And is that the same
characterization of your relationship with Ms. Driscoll
or was it more--
A:
I think so too.
9
10
THE COURT:
A:
Okay.
So--
Friendship.
THE COURT:
11
-------------------------
All right.
146
The relationship that we've heard
12
about between you and Ms. Driscoll is also one you
13
characterize as a friendship and you're helping out--
14
A:
15
Yeah, the two relationships evolved hand in hand.
__S_o they_ basically hg.ppened simultaneously.__ _
16
17
18
THE COURT:
A:
Okay.
So if I claim for him to be my friend then I claim
that she's my friend also.
19
THE COURT:
Okay.
20
A:
Yeah.
21
Q:
When you say the two relationships you mean between
22
Kurt and Patricia.
23
A:
No, I mean between them and myself.
24
Q:
Okay.
That's what I'm saying.

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
A:
Q:
Not between the two of them but between them and me.
I apologize,
I said that incorrectly.
The
relationships you're talking about are not counselor or friend
relationship, but just you're knowing them and dealing with
them were simultaneous?
A:
Correct.
Q:
Okay.
8
9
MS. MCNEICE:
11
12
Okay, if I could just have one
more minute to look through my notes.
10
---- - - - - - - -
147
THE COURT:
Q:
Sure, take your time.
I'm not sure if I asked you this.
Do you still have
a professional relationship with Armed Forces Foundation?
13
A:
I don't know the answer to that question.
14
Q:
Okay.
15
16
17
Have your payments from Patricia always been
in the f_or:rn of - - for- work_ that_ you've provide hBr?_ _

A:
I don't understand the word.
Do you mean to
compensate me for some of work?
18
Q:
Mm-hmm.
19
A:
No.
20
Q:
So she's made contributions at time over and above
21
For work that you did.
paying you for something?
22
A:
Yes.
23
Q:
How about not a contribution to the ministry but a
24
direct payment to you.

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
1
2
A:
was perform, just for me as a person?

Q:
A:.::. :N.o;:3lo.L.outside of work I've done, to be compensated
Q:
Okay.
When you were providing information to Kurt
concerning his short temper, you indicated that you would
quote from the Bible.
A:
That's correct.
10
Q:
Did he ever indicate to you that these quotations or
11
scriptural readings assisted him in dealing with his short
12
temper?
13
A:
14
-
Mm-hmm.
for some sort of a task I completed, no.
------
Not a contribution to some sort of ministry work I
-----------
148
15_
16
I believe so.
He would thank me which led me to
believe that he was appreciative and grateful for receiving
_ that.
And the word;; we:ren' t
mine~-
I was_ sending _literal _____ _
quotes from the Bible so--
17
Q:
Okay.
18
A:
-- since he would thank me for them, I was assuming
19
20
that he was grateful to receive that.

Q:
He was grateful to receive it.
Did he ever indicate
21
to you that in fact the receipt scriptural readings actually
22
changed his temper?
23
24
A:
No, he had never spoke directly to that, made that
statement like this thing you sent me changed me.

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
No.
MS. MCNEICE:
THE COURT:
REDIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. RUSTY HARDIN
Thank you, nothing further.

Mr. Hardin?
Just a couple questions.
Q:
Why do you say you don't
know whether you still have a connection with Armed Forces
Foundation?
A:
149
Because those lines of communication have kind of
faltered.
And I was actually tentatively scheduled to work on
10
something kind of specific--kind of a joint effort and it was
11
going to kind of be leading into the holidays and it didn't
12
happen.
13
know if I'm still working to do anything for AFF or not.
14
still believe passionately in what they're doing so I would
15
love to, I just don't know if that's--
16
So I don't know--that's my honest answer.
Q:
Okay.
I don't
I
So you haven't severed the relationship, you
17
just don't know whether they have severed with you one way or
18
the other?
19
A:
That's true.
And I must admit to you that I haven't
20
made any efforts in light everything that's happening to
21
contact her staff.
22
Q:
So I could be to blame for that as well.
Thank you very much.
23
MR. HARDIN:
24
THE COURT:
That's all.
Thank you, sir, for your testimony.

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
REDIRECT EXAMINATION OF R. SNIFFEN BY R. HARDIN
Does anyone have any objection to this witness being
excused?
4
5
6
7
MR. HARDIN:
150
I'd like to ask that he be excused
if that's okay.
MS. MCNEICE:
him further.
No.
I have no need to question
Thank you, Your Honor.
THE COURT:
Thank you, sir.
You're excused
with the Court's thanks.
before lunch is that you'd be resting at this point, is
10
Mr. Hardin, our understanding
that correct?
11
MR. HARDIN:
12
THE COURT:
That's correct.
Okay.
All right, Ms. McNeice, do
13
you need time before you begin?
14
MS. MCNEICE:
15
I may need just a minute to see
if my witness has arrived.
16
THE COURT:
17
MS. MCNEICE:
18
THE COURT:
All right.
19
THE CLERK:
All rise.
20
[END 436261 20150113-1328 Part4]
21
[START 436261 20150113-1403 Part5]
22
THE CLERK:
In session.
23
THE COURT:
All right.
24
Do you want me to recess or no?

Yes please.
Thank you.
In recess.
Please be seated.
Ms. McNeice, you have a
witness that you wish to call on rebuttal.

Phone: 212-346~6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
REDIRECT EXAMINATION OF R. SNIFFEN BY R. HARDIN
MS. MCNEICE:
THE COURT:
MS. MCNEICE:
I do, Your Honor.

Okay.
Officer James Wood, Dover Police
Department.
THE COURT:
All right.
THE CLERK:
State your name for the record.
OFFICER JAMES WOOD:
THE CLERK:
Call Detective Wood.
James C. Wood.
Do you swear to tell the truth, the
whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God?
10
OFC. WOOD:
Yes I do.
11
THE COURT:
Ms. McNeice.
12
MS. MCNEICE:
13
J A M E S
14
151
Thank you.
W 0 0 D, having been first duly
sworn, testified as follows:
15
DIRECT EXAMINATION
16
17
Q:
18
. A:
19
Q:
And your age, sir?
20
A:
I'm 33.
21
Q:
And your educational background?
22
A:
I have a high school diploma and approximately 40
Good afternoon, Mr. Wood.

Good afternoon .
23
credits at Wilmington University and the Delaware State Police
24
Academy.
Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
REDIRECT EXAMINATION; OF R. SNIFFEN BY R~ HARDIN
152
Q:
And are you employed at this time?
A:
Yes.
Q:
Where do you work?
A:
The City of Dover Police Department.
Q:
How long have you been there?
A:
I've been with the Dover Police Department for three
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
years.
Q:
Were you employed in law enforcement prior to your
term with Dover Police Department?

A:
Yes, I worked for the Camden Delaware Police
Department for six years prior to being employed by Dover.

Q:
Okay.
Currently as an employee of the Dover Police
Department do you have a specific task?

A:
Yes.
I'm a detective assigned to the criminal
investigation unit.
Q:
Have you been doing that for the entirety of your
time at Dover for three years?

A:
No, ma'am.
I worked patrol a little over two years
and I've been a detective since Memorial Day.
20
Q:
Okay.
21
A:
I was a detective for three years with the Camden
22
23
24
Police Department as well.

Q:
I see.
Your office is located right in Dover,
Delaware is that correct?

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
DIRECT EXAMINATION OF J. WOODS BY C. MCNEICE
A:
153
400 South Queen Street, City of Dover, County of
Kent, State of Delaware.

Q:
Okay.
In conjunction with your tasks as a detective
in the criminal investigation unit did you have an opportunity
to speak with Mr. Kurt Busch?
A:
Yes I did.
Q:
How is it that you made contact with Mr. Busch?
A:
I contacted him via telephone after some allegations
were made.
He referred me to his attorney.
His attorney
10
Rusty Hardin contacted me via telephone.
And then we had a
11
meeting at the Dover Police Department with Mr. Busch, Mr.
12
Liguori, Mr. Hardin and Mr. Yarbrough.
13
Q:
And who is Mr. Yarbrough, sir?
14
A:
He's an investigator for the attorney Rusty Hardin.
15
Q:
Okay.
16
background?
17
A:
18
19
20
Are you familiar with his professional
I believe he worked in law enforcement in Texas.
don't remember his exact.
Q:
Okay.
Specifically do you recall the date that you
contacted Kurt Busch?
21
A:
Not off the top of my head.
22
Q:
And do you recall the date that you spoke with his
23
24
It was early November.
attorney?
A:
The same day.

Ubiqus/Nation-Wide Rep'orting & Convention Coverage
Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
Q:
After you spoke with Mr. Hardin you indicated that
there was a meeting?
A:
Q: ~ ~-,,w:i::th ...Mr.
Yes.
Busch, Mr. Liguori, Mr. Hardin and Mr.
Yarbrough.
A:
Correct.
Q:
Do you recall the date of that meeting, sir?
A:
I believe it was the 18th at approximately 12:45.
Q:
November 18th?
10
A:
Yes, November 18th.
11
Q:
12:45.
12
A:
Yes.
13
Q:
P.m.?
14
A:
Yes.
15
Q:
Okay.
16
A:
I have the date and time documented.
17
I'm not 100
percent on that.
Q:
Okay.
20
A:
Approximately an hour.
21
Q:
Now I take it Mr. Busch was not under arrest, is
18
19
22
154
How long did that discussion/meeting take,
sir?
that correct?
23
A:
No, ma'am.
24
Q:
Did he indicate to you that he knew he was there--

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
DIRECT EXAMINATION,OF J. WOODS BY C. MCNEICE
did he indicate to you that he was coming for this meeting
voluntarily?
A:
Yes, he came in voluntarily.
When he came with his
attorneys.:;::I>a-dvi.sed him that he was not under arrest and he
was free to go at any time and he acknowledged that.
6
7
Q:
Did Mr. Hardin remain with Mr. Busch during the
entirety of the period of the period that you were together?
A:
Yes, their whole team did.
Q:
So everybody was there for the whole hour?
10
A:
That's correct.
It may or may not have been an
11
hour.
12
team was there the whole time Mr. Busch was there.
13
correct.
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
I don't remember exactly--approximately.
Q:
Got it.
That's
Busch?
A:
I asked him about his relationship with Ms. Driscoll
and what happened on the night of September 26th.

Q:
Okay.
Did you ask him about any of the period
leading up to the night of September 26th?

A:
I asked him brief background information about their
relationship.
22
prior with the New Hampshire race.
24
But the whole
What types of questions did you ask Mr.
21
23
155
Q:
And then I asked pretty much starting the week
And what did he tell you about the week prior with

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
A:
156
He saidon Sunday after the New Hampshire race I
believe they were in the Boston area they had an argument and
he ended the relationship and got out of the car.

>
Q:
That he got out of the car.
A:
That he got out of the car, that he went to get his
things out of the trunk and 'Ms. Driscoll sped off.
what he told me.
8
9
10
Q:
Okay.
That's
Did he indicate to you anything about the
condition of the car when he got out?

A:
He advised that he was upset due to his racing
11
performance and that he broke the mirror off inside the car,
12
the rearview mirror.
13
14
Q:
What were your perceptions of Mr. Busch as he was
telling you about breaking the mirror off the car?
15
A:
My perceptions?
16
Q:
What did you think when you heard that?
17
A:
I didn't really form an opinion.
18
Q:
Okay.
After he told you about breaking the mirror
19
on that particular Sunday, did he provide any other
20
information to you about the next week?
21
A:
He said he had little to no contact with Ms.
22
Driscoll between then and Friday at Dover.
He wasn't certain
23
but he was pretty sure there was no contact.
24
night of the 26th he got a text message from her and that he
He advised the

Phone: 212-34676666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
DIRECT EXAMINATION'OF J. WOODS BY C. MCNEICE
157
did text her back stating that he was laying on the floor
crying because he just finished watching Seven Years in Tibet.
Q:
Okay.
A:
No, but he told it was a movie about a husband who
Did you know what Seven Years in Tibet was?
leaves his wife and child and goes and spends his seven years
with the Dalai Lama or something along those lines.
Q:
Did he tell you why he was crying?
A:
He just said he was upset from the movie.
Q:
Did he indicate if there was anything else that had
10
upset him that day?
11
A:
No he did not.
12
Q:
Did he tell you what he did after he watched the
13
movie?
14
A:
He said he went to bed.
15
Q:
Did he tell you what time he went to bed?
16
A:
No.
17
Q:
Okay.
18
If so, I don't recall.

Let me just say this again, he said he
received a text from Patricia and he texted her back correct?
19
A:
Yes.
20
Q:
Did he then explain that Ms. Driscoll entered the
21
22
motorhome?
A:
He advised me that Ms. Driscoll showed up
23
unannounced and uninvited later that evening.
24
believe 2200 hours which would be 10:00 p.m.
Approximately I

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
158
DIRECT EXAMINATION:OF J. WOODS BY C. MCNEICE
Q:
Letme just clarify for the record.
Where
was he staying on the night of September 26th, 2014?
3
4
Okay.
A:
In his motorhbme at Dover International Speedway at
1131 North Dupont Highway.
Q:
That's in Kent County also?
A:
Yes, Dover, Kent County, State of Delaware.
Q:
Okay.
A:
Approximately 10:00 p.m. he advised she showed up
Ms. Driscoll arrived he said at about--
with Houston and entered his motorhome.
10
Q:
And who is Houston, sir?
11
A:
Houston would be Ms. Driscoll's 9 year old son.
12
Q:
Okay.
13
When she arrived did he tell you what he did
at that time?
14
A:
What Houston did or--?
15
Q:
No, I'm sorry.
16
A:
I believe he
18
Q:
I'm sorry who was in bed?
19
A:
Mr. Busch.
20
Q:
Mr. Busch.
21
A:
Yeah.
22
Q:
So he hugged Houston while still in bed?
17
23
24
What Mr. Busch did.
hugg~d
Houston and he was laying in
bed.
I want to
understand your testimony.

A:
I'm unclear on that at this time.
He hugged Houston

Phone: 212-346~6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
159
and then Houston went out to the living room in the motor
coach and was watching TV.
bed at that point.
And then Mr. Busch was still in
Q:
He was still in bed at that point?
A:
Yes.
Q:
Mr. Busch was still in bed at that point.
A:
Mr. Busch was in bed, Houston was in the living room
watching a movie.
10
11
Q:
Did Mr. Busch tell you how Houston got to the living
A:
The first time, no.
room?
If he did I don't recall.
12
There were multiple occurrences of Houston going to the living
13
room per Mr. Busch's statements to me.
14
15
16
Q:
Okay.
Did he say what happened after Houston went
to the living room?

A:
Him and Ms. Driscoll exchanged words.
And he stated
17
that she told him that he had to tell Houston that their
18
relationship was over.
19
back to the bedroom.
20
her that it's not the time, this is an adult matter.
21
escorted the child back to the living room area.
And that Ms. Driscoll brought Houston

At that point Mr. Busch said--he told
And he
22
Q:
He said that he escorted the child back.
23
A:
That's what Mr. Busch told me, correct?
24
Q:
Did he describe what clothing he was wearing at that

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
1
2
3
----
time.
A:
He said that it was embarrassing that he was
unclothed at the time.
Q:
Naked?
A:
Yes.
Q:
Did he tell you what he did after he took Houston
back to the living room for the second time?
that he took Houston to the living room.
--
160
A:
Or excuse me,
He said he went to get back in the bed but Ms.
10
Driscoll was standing between the wall and the bed.
He
11
described it as I believe a 12 to 18 inch area.
12
was trying to squeeze between Ms. Driscoll and the bed to get
13
in, at which time he cupped her cheeks gently in his hands as
14
if they were going to kiss and he said you need to leave.
15
when he did it, he demonstrated for me, he said you need to
16
leave and he advised that her head tapped the wall while he
17
was doing that.
He said he
And
--
18
19
20
Q:
Could you show me again, sir,
so that we can see
your hands and make a record of what you're describing.

A:
He said that he cupped her cheeks in his hands.
21
can't do it to myself that's why I haven't demonstrated.
22
the bottoms of his hands were along her jaw bones like this.
23
And he gently said you need to leave like this, he described
24
it as if he was going to kiss her is how he was holding her

Phone: 212-346-6666 * Fax: 888-412-3655
But
cheeks and that her head tapped the wall.
me.
161
That's what he told
Q:
Okay.
A:. :::.And then he said that she called him some names
which I don't recall.
Those are documented as well.
she stormed out of the motorhome with Houston and then she
said something along the lines that this isn't over.
Q:
She said this isn't over?
A:
Per Mr. Busch.
10
Q:
Okay.
11
A:
I wasn't there.
12
Q:
Okay.
13
14
15
16
You said Mr. Busch demonstrated with his
hands how he placed them on Ms. Driscoll's face.
A:
Yes, ma'am.
He demonstrated on Mr. Hardin in the
interview.
Q:
Okay.
17
THE COURT:
Sir, was anyone else questioning
18
Mr. Busch at the time or was it just you asking
19
questions?
20
A:
21
22
23
24
And that
Just me.
THE COURT:
Q:
Okay thank you.
And again so, on Mr. Hardin he placed his hands and
did what he described as the manner he used for Ms. Driscoll?
A:
He said I cupped her cheeks in my hand almost as if

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
162
we were going to.kiss.
motioned his hands like - - :and he said her head tapped the
wall when I did that.
Houston and left.
leaving.
Q:
I said you need to leave and he
She called me choice names, grabbed
And she stated this isn't over when she was
During the'process of cupping her cheeks and her
head tapping the wall, did Mr. Busch indicate if he was
standing, sitting, laying down--did he tell you where he was?
9
10
A:
I believe they were standing face to face.
he was trying to squeeze between her to get in the bed.
11
Q:
Okay.
12
A:
I was implied that he was standing.
13
He said
He demonstrated
it in a standing up position.
14
Q:
Did he indicate that he was looking at her?
15
A:
Yes, he said he was looking her in the eyes as if
16
they were going to kiss, you need to leave.
17
tapped the wall.
18
19
Q:
Okay.
And her head
There were words exchanged and she departed.

Did he indicate to you any other things
happened after Ms. Driscoll departed?
20
A:
No, he said he went to bed and she left.
21
Q:
Did you discuss any further contact that they had
22
23
24
that evening?
A:
I asked him about a text message that I received
when the complaint was filed.
We did discuss that.

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
DIRECT EXAMINATION.OF J. WOODS BY C. MCNEICE
Q:
And what did he say?
A:
He did not recall sending that text.
deleted.
were gone.
163
His phone was
I guess he had to get a new phone and the messages
Q:
I'm sorry where did he tell you his phone was?
A:
He said he had to get a new phone so his messages
8
9
were gone from that night.

Q:
Did he tell you about any further messages into the
next week at any time?
10
A:
I don't recall, ma'am.
11
Q:
How about sometime in October?
12
A:
In October?
13
Q:
Did he discuss any other messages that he might have
14
15
sent to Ms. Driscoll in October of 2014?

A:
I don't believe so.
I believe that we said that
16
there was a very brief interaction between the two but I don't
17
recall any specific text messages.
18
night.
I do recall the one that
19
Q:
Okay.
20
A:
He--I don't recall--
21
Q:
[interposing] Or he didn't have it on his text.
22
A:
I don't recall, ma'am.
23
24
But he did not recall that text?
I'd have to refer back to my
paperwork.
Q:
Where is your paperwork at this time, sir?

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
Has it
been handed to the Attorney General's Office?
A:
Which paperwork?
Q:
Any reports that you prepared, any of your
164
investigations?
A:
Yes.
Q:
Okay.
THE COURT:
Sir, do you have copies that you
could refer to or refresh your memory if you needed to?
A:
do.
10
MS. MCNEICE:
Your Honor, if I might.
Mr.
11
Wood's testimony under an agreement with the Attorney
12
General's Office is to be limited to the recorded
13
interview that he made with Mr. Busch on this particular
14
day.
15
16
MR. HARDIN:
I don't think they can make that
kind of agreement - - both sides, Your Honor.
17
THE COURT:
That's--I mean the witness is
18
called to testify about an incident or about his
19
involvement in an incident.
20
Attorney General's Office can govern whether or not the
21
witness can be questioned about any aspect of that
22
incident.
23
and the prosecution or potential prosecution of Mr. Busch
24
but--
And I don't think the
I mean that may be some agreement between you

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MS. MCNEICE:
THE COURT:
Okay.
-- it's not binding upon these
parties here.
. MS. MCNEICE:
4
5
165
Q:
Okay.
I understand.
Sorry.
I just wanted to go over my notes one more
time, sir.
indicated was roughly an hour, did Mr. Busch then leave your
police department?
9
10
11
12
A:
At the conclusion of your interview which you
Yes he did.
I escorted him to the lobby and
somebody from Mr. Liguori's staff picked him up.

Q:
Okay.
And did Mr. Liguori and Mr. Hardin leave at
that time?
13
A:
Shortly thereafter.
14
Q:
Okay.
15
A:
Yes.
16
Q:
Okay.
17
18
And Mr. Yarbrough also?
Have you done any further interviews with
Kurt Busch since that day, sir?

A:
With Mr. Busch, no.
19
MS. MCNEICE:
20
THE COURT:
Nothing further.
Thank you.
Mr. Hardin, I'm not really sure
21
what if anything you folks may want to do in terms of
22
contacting the Attorney General's Office before cross
23
examining the witness in order to just make sure that
24
whatever happens in this proceeding doesn't prejudice Mr.

Phone: 212-346-6666 * Fax: 888-412-3655
hi~.
166
Busch in some other way with
you a recess, sir, so that you can make an effort to
contact them to ascertain that.
mad:e::a::r.uling that this witness can essentially be asked
anything about his investigation and so--but I am aware
from what people are saying that the Attorney General's
Office is considering the possibility of criminal
prosecution.
with them with regard to anything that you may question
10
this witness about having some impact on their decision
11
making.
Obviously the Court's
And I want to give you the chance to confer
And I don't know that it would or really should.

MR. HARDIN:
12
I'm willing to give
No, I think that's a fair
13
observation and I'd like to take the Court up on that
14
recess.
15
THE COURT:
16
MR. HARDIN:
17
THE CLERK:
18
All right.
We'll recess.
Thank you.
All rise.
[END 436261 20150113-1403 PartS]
19
[START 436261 20150113-1504 Part6]
20
THE CLERK:
21
22
Family Court back in session.
Please be seated.
THE COURT:
Good afternoon everyone.
Mr.
23
Hardin, I'm assuming that you've had whatever contact
24
you've needed to have with the authorities and have

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
DIRECT. EXAMINATION OF J. WOODS BY C. MCNEICE
resolved whatever issues there may be in that regard.
MR. HARDIN:
THE COURT:
MR. HARDIN:
We have, Your Honor.

All right.
We're not going to ask for a copy
of the report at this time.
THE COURT:
MR. HARDIN:
Okay.
And we have some agreed areas to
But I'll leave it at that unless the Court wants
cover.
to inquire further.
THE COURT:
10
11
167
Yeah, I don't need to know anything
further.
12
MR. HARDIN:
13
CROSS EXAMINATION
14
BY MR. RUSTY HARDIN
Okay.
15
Q:
Good afternoon.
16
A:
Good afternoon, sir.
17
Q:
Detective Wood, let's see if we can go over a little
18
bit the series of events connecting everybody here.
19
recall early on me contacting you to discuss and asking for
20
you to interview Kurt before you all do anything?
21
A:
Yes, sir.
22
Q:
Okay.
Do you
Wotild it be a fair statement that probably
23
the first time you and I talked is a day or two before the
24
Dover Police Department issued a press release confirming

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
168
there was an investigation?
A:
Yes.
Q:
Do you recall me calling you concerned about that
and asking that before you reached any decisions one way or
the other we wanted to give you an opportunity to interview
Mr. Busch?
A:
That's correct.
Q:
Would you agree that our dealings over the next week
9
10
11
12
13
or two were trying to schedule that kind of interview at our

request to come in and talk to you?
A:
Yes.
We scheduled one but Mr. Busch couldn't make
it so it was rescheduled for the following week.

Q:
And in fact that the rescheduling might even had to
14
do partly with my schedule too as well.
15
remember--it doesn't matter.
16
A:
Did it not?
It wasn't rescheduled through myself.
Do you
It was
17
rescheduled through another party at my police station so I'm
18
not sure of the particulars.
19
Q:
Fair enough.
But would you agree that it is a fair
20
characterization that from the first time Mr. Busch and his
21
representatives found out about your investigation, we did
22
everything we could to cooperate with you?
23
A:
Yes, you were cooperative.
24
Q:
And I believe you have said that you have been a

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CROSS EXAMINATION. OF J. WOODS BY R. HARDIN
169
police officer now:for a total of 11 years is that right?
A:
9 years.
Q:
9 years.
A:
That's correct.
Q:
When we came in fqr the interview, did we impose any
3 here and 6 in Camden.
conditions on the interview at all?
A:
No you did not.
Q:
Were you free to ask him about anything you wanted
to without objection from us?
10
A:
Yes.
11
Q:
During the interview, though we were present through
12
the entire time, did we ever object to any line of questioning
13
you had?
14
A:
No.
15
Q:
Did we ever try to stop him from answering or mold
16
his answers ln any way?
17
A:
No.
18
Q:
Were you able to ask him everything you wanted to
19
ask him and that you were interested in?
20
A:
Yes.
21
Q:
And did he consciously after you warned him that he
22
wasn't under arrest and didn't have to talk to you, did he
23
affirmatively tell you he realized that but he was willing to
24
be interviewed?
Ubiqus/Nation-Wide R'eporting & Convention Coverage
22 Cortlandt Street- :Suite 802, New York, NY 10007
Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
170
CROSS EXAMINATION OF J. WOODS BY R. HARDIN
A:
Yes.
Q:
He could of course, as you well know, have taken the
fifth and refused to be interviewed correct?
A:
That's correct.
Q:
And a lot of times in your investigations that's
what happened isn't it?
A:
I don't know if I would say a lot, sometimes yes.
Q:
Okay.
Now when this interview--by the way was this
interview videotaped?
10
A:
Yes it was.
11
Q:
Okay.
So when we sat in that room would there had
12
been somebody on the other side of the interview room watching
13
as well?
14
A:
There's somebody on the monitor watching it, yes.
15
Q:
Okay.
16
A:
It's not like a two-way glass or anything.
17
18
They
were watching it on a monitor.

Q:
I got you.
All right.
And after the interview for
19
whatever time you think it originally took, did you leave for
20
awhile to consult with anyone?
21
that's fine.
22
A:
23
24
And if you don't remember
I don't believe I consulted with anyone.
I went and
got Mr. Welch for you guys to speak with.

Q:
All right.
Now during that interview you asked Mr.

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
Busch about and showed him a screenshot of a text, is that
right?
171
A:
I believe so, yes.
Q:
And do you recall whether that text you showed him
was one that had been provided to you by Ms. Driscoll?
A:
That's correct.
Q:
And that text was a text the night, was it not, of
the alleged altercation--whatever one wants to call it.
A:
Yes.
10
Q:
Okay.
11
And I believe you said he looked at it and he
didn't remember it because it's not one that he still had?
12
A:
I asked him about it and he didn't remember it.
13
believe I showed it to him and he said yeah I must have sent
14
that.
15
Q:
And so that the Commissioner's aware--most of the
16
evidence, what all these things are, that was the text message
17
was it not in which he talked about the child custody and his
18
willing to help with that if--
19
20
A:
[interposing] This is--from my memory, it's not
verbatim.
21
Q:
Okay.
22
A:
It said something along the lines if you want me to
23
help you with your child custody shit you need to agree with
24
the terms of our split.

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CROSS EXAMINATION'OF J. WOODS BY R. HARDIN
Q:
That's actually the way you always interpreted it
wasn't it that that'swhat it was, correct?
you gave is the way you interpreted the language to mean?
A: . :I- believe so, yes.
Q:
Okay.
A:
Yes.
Q:
Okay.
A:
Q:
I don't recall, sir.
I have pages and pages and
All right.
Now we actually brought a bunch of stuff
with us did we not?
14
15
Now did you show him any other text in that
pages of text messages from numerous parties.
12
13
And you actually asked him about that
interview?
10
11
Okay.
The explanation
during the interview didn't you?
A:
Yes, you brought you own binder, which I have a copy
of that with me as well.
16
Q:
You have that here is that correct?
17
A:
Yes.
18
Q:
Have you shown anything in your file or in that
19
172
binder to Ms. Driscoll or any of her representatives?
20
A:
No.
21
Q:
All right.
So as to these binders here are we are
22
equal footing.
I mean one being one we provided you, but the
23
other binder does that contain your reports that are sitting
24
here?
Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
173
A:
Yes.
Q:
Have you shown either side anything in your binder?
A:
No I have not.
Q:
All right.
A:
The one binder was made by the defense.
The only
person that's reviewed it is me, maybe my supervisor and the
Attorney General's Office.
Driscoll or Ms. McNeice.
Q:
Okay.
It has not been shared with Ms.
I'm going to ask you--and I'm not going try
10
to go in our own binder, but obviously I'm going to give you
11
that binder, ask you to look and follow with me and I'm going
12
to read you a list of names and see if those are people we've
13
provided you interviews on.
14
we had interviewed.
Are you with me?
Or people that
15
A:
Okay.
16
Q:
All I want you to do is confirm that those are
17
18
people that we provided you.

MS. MCNEICE:
I'd suggest, Your Honor, that
19
that is irrelevant.
20
what Mr. Busch said to him on a particular day in a
21
voluntary interview.
22
would suggest that reviewing a list of other people he
23
may or may not have interviewed is beyond the scope of
24
direct and is not relevant.
Mr. Wood is here to testify about
He's provided that testimony.

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CROSS EXAMINATION'OF J. WOODS BY R. HARDIN
MR. HARDIN:
She's misunderstanding.
174
I'm not
asking him who he has interviewed.
provided interview reports of--our own interviews.

THE COURT:
4
5
MR. HARDIN:
The level of cooperation, Your
Honor.
THE COURT:
8
9
So the question is asking the
Officer--
6
7
I'm asking who we
Okay.
Is it going to be the names
of witnesses that the defense provided to the police?
10
MR. HARDIN:
11
THE COURT:
12
MR. HARDIN:
It's not just names of witnesses.

Okay.
We actually--the only time in my
13
career, provided him our own work product interviews of
14
those people for him to look at and then use however he
15
wants.
16
language as so.
17
discovery with the State's Attorney's Office too.
Whether he wanted to go talk to them, verify the

I really want to show--this is all
18
THE COURT:
19
MS. MCNEICE:
Okay.
Ms. McNeice?
Again I believe it's beyond the
20
scope of direct.
And no one has indicated or implied in
21
any manner that Mr. Busch did not fully cooperate with
22
the interview, that his attorneys did not fully
23
cooperate, that they would have provided whatever
24
information that they had.
It just doesn't seem to be

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
relevant at this'time to the information that Mr. Wood
related today regarding his interview with Mr. Busch.
And I would suggest that it's also a waste of time.
THE COURT:
175
Well it's likely beyond the scope
of direct but I mean--and we're sort of in rebuttal at
this point so Mr. Hardin's kind of left out if I don't
let him question him about it because he can't call him
himself unless I allow him surrebuttal.
give you some leeway with regard to this.
Mr. Hardin, I ' l l

Hopefully
10
there's not like a ton of stuff in that binder that's
11
going to take us all day t6 ask the Officer--
12
13
MR. HARDIN:
Actually, I think my questions
will take less than five minutes.
14
THE COURT:
Okay.
I'll let you go.
15
Q:
Is there an index in there at the beginning?
16
A:
Yes, sir.
17
Q:
Now we've provided you our own version of the
18
timeline as to the sequence of events did we not?
19
A:
That's correct.
20
Q:
Okay.
And then after that we provided you an index
21
with people and we provided you the actual work product we
22
did, did we not?
Of people to interview.
23
A:
That's correct.
24
Q:
And we indicated to you, did we not, that we had by

Phone: 212-346-6666 * Fax: 888-412-3655
176
phone or in person indicated these people and we urged you to
talk to them,
is that correct?
Yes.
A:
And I believe your notes from the interviews
are included with each.

Yes.
Q:
Let me ask you, in your 9 years have you ever
had the defense turn over to you their own in-house
interviews?
A:
No.
Q:
All right.
Would it be a fair statement that in 9
10
years you've been a police officer you have never been
11
provided with the investigation by the defense in terms of
12
their own write up with interviews they did, is that right?
13
A:
That's correct,
14
Q:
Okay.
I have not.
And so I have written here 17 names real
15
quickly.
16
included interviews whether they were by phone or in person
17
with.
I will ask you if these names are names of people we
Erica Anderson is that right?
18
A:
I don't recall that name.
19
Q:
Okay if I think you keep looking you'll find it.
20
But let's keep going real quickly and I ' l l see which ones you
21
don't have.
22
A:
Yes.
23
Q:
Todd Barrier [phonetic]?
24
A:
No.
Matthew Bullard?

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
Q:
Ross Blankenship?
A:
Yes.
Q:
Mindy Bullard?
A:
177
.It's not in this book but yes, I exchanged emails in
reference to that with Mr. Yarbrough.

Q:
Okay.
And did you exchange emails with Mr.
Yarbrough concerning that about Mr. Barrier too?
Do you
recall?
A:
It's quite possible we exchanged the email - -.
10
Q:
And so that the Commissioner's clear, after this
11
interview we continued to provide you names of people is that
12
correct?
13
A:
Yes, that's correct.
14
Q:
And we continued to provide you names of people for
15
you to interview and sometimes the work product of what they
16
already told us.
17
A:
That's correct.
18
Q:
Okay.
19
A:
Yes.
20
Q:
And interview regarding Mr. Chikito [phonetic],
Luke and Cherish Burt?
21
Gilbert Chikito.
If that rings a bell, her first husband.
22
Does that ring a bell.
And if it doesn't,
23
A:
No, it may have been in an email.
24
Q:
All right.
I don't--
Christy Clarier, assistant for Mr.

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
178
Busch?
A:
Yes.
Q:
Michael Domcheff, his driver?
A: . . Ye.s.
Q:
Richard Fike?
A:
I don't recall that one but it may have been in an
email as well.
Q:
Fair enough.
A:
Same thing.
10
Q:
All right.
11
Tanya Finch?
Do you recall us recommending you
talking Mr. Hermanstorfer?
12
A:
Yes.
13
Q:
All right.
14
A:
I believe that may have been in an email after the
15
Jeanette Parker?
initial interview.
16
Q:
Okay.
17
A:
Yes I recall that one.
18
Q:
And Mr. Nick Terry?
19
A:
Yes.
20
Q:
Okay.
And Richard Sniffen, Richard Andrew Sniffen?
Now I'm not asking you at this time which
21
ones of these people you went out and actually interviewed.
22
Really my line of questioning is designed to ask you about
23
what we provided you and continue to provide you after the
24
meeting.
Would it be a fair statement that up until you

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
CROSS EXAMINATI"ON'OF J. WOODS BY R. HARDIN
179
'
concluded your investigation and made whatever
recommendations, if you've made any, to the State's Attorney's
Office--and I'm not asking you what that is.
that time whenever you completed your investigation, did we
continue to provide you names of people and sometimes copies
of interviews we had done with them?
7
8
A:
Yes.
But up until
I believe I received correspondence with Mr.
Yarbrough as recently as last week or the week before.

Q:
Okay.
Thanks a bunch.
Now I want to ask you just a
10
couple of other questions.
11
take the time in what Ms. Driscoll said to you, how many times
12
though did you interview her?
13
once?
I'm not asking you at this time or
Did you interview her just
14
A:
No.
15
Q:
How many times did you interview her?
A:
17
Q:
Let's do first in person then secondly by phone or
19
A:
Probably twice.
20
Q:
Okay.
21
A:
Yeah.
22
Q:
And then what about by phone or by text?
23
A:
I never exchanged text messages with her at all.
24
Q:
Okay.
18
text.
In person.

Phone: 212-346~6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
180
She would send me :emails from her work email to my
A:
work email.
Q:
Okay.
And how often has that gone on?
A:
I couldn't tell you.
Q:
Okay.
Probably 20, 25 times.
And then in addition to that I believe we
have in evidence before the Judge the complaint that she filed
that this Commissioner is considering.
as to how that was prepared or done or signed, whatever, in
connection with also the complaint and report to you?
10
11
A:
What was the sequence
Ms. McNeice was filling out the PFA paperwork while
I was interviewing Ms. Driscoll initially.
12
Q:
Was she doing it in your presence?
13
A:
I was talking Ms. Driscoll, she was sitting on the
14
other side.
15
at the table in the same room if that's what you're asking.
16
Q:
I didn't discuss it with her.
Oh okay.
She filled it out
So does the complaint that the
17
Commissioner has before him, was that actually prepared at
18
that time she was being interviewed by you?
19
lawyer?
MS. MCNEICE:
20
Objection.
Prepared by her
I'm not sure that
21
it's relevant to anything.
22
complaint in front of it with the various items
23
mentioned.
24
THE COURT:
And the Court has the
So did you actually see the final

Phone: 212-346-6666 * Fax: 888-412-3655
product of the PFA petition after Ms. McNeice prepared
it?
A:
I didn't see that until--
Q:
Would you like your own file?
A:
No, it's not in there.

THE COURT:
181
I guess my question to you, sir, is
do you know whether or.not the document that you saw Ms.
McNeice preparing is the one that ended up getting filed
in the Court?
10
A:
I don't recall seeing the completed document.
11
12
13
THE COURT:
A:
She was filing it out sitting at the table and she
said it was a PFA and that she was going to go file it.
14
15
16
Okay.
THE COURT:
Q:
Okay.
And actually do you recall telling me--was it signed
in your presence?
17
A:
I don't recall.
18
Q:
Do you recall whether or not at one time whether or
19
20
not you told me that it was when we were talking?
A:
She may have signed it.
There was a lot going on.
21
I was interviewing trying to get a vast amount of information.
22
It was recorded, her interview was recorded as well when she
23
signed it so--
24
Q:
So we'll know that.
So her interview was recorded

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
and she signed the interview or what did you mean when you
said she signed it?
giving her statement is that what you're saying?
4
5
6
In other words there is a video of her
A:.. ..M.s . Driscoll's interview was recorded as well as Mr.

Busch's in the same manner on a DVR system.
Q:
All right.
I'm not asking you for it.
I'm just
trying to make sure I know what there is.
A:
Right.
Q:
And are you saying that while that interview was
10
being conducted by you, her lawyer was preparing what her
11
lawyer told you--
12
13
182
A:
[interposing] She was handwriting a document what
she told me was a PFA.
14
Q:
Got you.
15
A:
I don't remember if they actually signed it in front
16
17
18
of me or not.
Q:
Okay.
It would be on the video.

And do you recall whether they said after
your interview with her that she was going over to file it?
19
A:
They
20
Q:
Okay.
21
All right.
~ere
coming to Kent County Family Court.
Now during this time how long would you
estimate your interview of her was?
22
A:
Again approximately an hour, I don't recall exactly.
23
Q:
Okay.
24
A:
The video would document the exact amount of time.

Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
183
Q:
I want to go back and refresh your memory about one
thing.
And ask you if you would--and I promise you I'm not
going to ask to see it as I'm entitled to after you do it.
But I j us.t.::w.an.t
to look at your notes or anything of Mr. Busch to determine--
to refresh your memory as to what he told you about the first
moving Houston to the front?
~to
refresh your memory.
Would it help for you
Are you with me?
A:
I would have to watch the interview.
Q:
You don't have anything in your file that would tell
A:
Not how many times he walked to the front.
10
you?
11
12
Just
about the alleged incident.

Q:
13
Yes.
So let me ask you if the following does
14
refresh your memory and if it doesn't just tell me it doesn't.
15
Okay?
16
when she showed up with Houston and said what she said
17
initially that he said that was inappropriate to discuss in
18
front of Houston and that he took Houston to the front and set
19
him down on the TV, came back to the bedroom and shut the door
20
for them to talk the first time.
21
you sit there now?
22
Do you recall Mr. Busch in your interview saying that
A:
Does that ring any bell as
I don't remember his exact words.
I remember that
23
he discussed him taking to the front of the motorhome multiple
24
times.
Phone: 212-346-6666 *Fax: 888-412-3655
Q:
Okay.
A:
And I remember him saying that he was naked.
Q:
Okay.
184
So you do remember him saying that he took
him up multiple times?
A:
Yes.
Q:
Okay.
What you don't remember is whether it was the
first time, you know, or the second time--how many did you
understand that Houston had to be taken back up to the front?
A:
At least twice.
10
Q:
Okay.
And do you recall him telling you that after
11
the first time she went and got Houston and wanted him to tell
12
Houston it was over?
13
A:
That's what Mr. Busch told me, correct?
14
Q:
Right.
15
A:
Yes.
16
Q:
I'm not asking you to weigh in on what did or didn't
17
18
And that's all we're talking about.
happen but only what he told you.

A:
And he said he took him back up front and that he
19
was naked and that he was uncomfortable because it's not his
20
birth child.
21
Q:
Right, okay.
22
MR. HARDIN:
23
THE COURT:
24
MR. HARDIN:
Just a moment, Judge.

All right.
That's all I have, Judge.

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THE COURT:
MS. MCNEICE:
THE COURT:
MS. MCNEICE:
THE COURT:
MS. MCNEICE:
10
MR. HARDIN:
I have nothing further, Your
Okay.
I'm assuming that everyone
Yes, Your Honor.

Certainly as far as we're
concerned.
12
13
All right.
is content with the Detective being excused?
11
I might just look through one,
Honor.
Ms. McNeice?
two minutes here.
Okay.
THE COURT:
Okay.
Detective, your excused with
the Court's thanks.
14
OFC. WOOD:
Thank you, Your Honor.
15
THE COURT:
All right.
16
MS. MCNEICE:
17
THE COURT:
19
3:30.
20
summation?
22
Ms. McNeice?
I have nothing further, thank
you.
18
21
185
Okay.
All right, counsel, it is
How does counsel wish to proceed as it related to
MR. LIGUORI:
Your Honor, respectfully I'd ask
you this, we've been here four days.
23
THE COURT:
24
MR. LIGUORI:
Uh-huh.
Would the Court consider

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186
.PROCEEDINGS
simultaneous written summations within 10 days.
you gave us a break with regard to the Christmas time,
there were no issues about that.
of information that we .need to regurgitate so to speak.
And I'm wondering if you would give us 10 days
simultaneous summations, no more than half a dozen, 8
pages.
THE COURT:
8
9
All right.
You know
There is a whole wealth
Ms. McNeice, what's Ms.
Driscoll's position as it relates to that proposal?

MS. MCNEICE:
10
Well certainly, Your Honor, I
11
think she would like to have the matter concluded today.
12
I appreciate that there is an awful lot of evidence to go
13
through.
14
have a good feeling for what happened that night plus all
15
of the surrounding stuff.
16
Court could probably make the determination today without
17
closing but I appreciate you want to give the defendant
18
whatever opportunity--
19
MR. LIGUORI:
20
I understand that not only the Court wants to
THE COURT:
22
MS. MCNEICE:
24
[interposing] Well he's not a
defendant.
21
23
And I would suggest that the
I got it.
Excuse me.
I apologize,
respondent, whatever.
THE COURT:
Well here's my though on the

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187
PROCEEDINGS
matter.
I don't have a problem with the parties filing
written submissions to the Court.
obviously a fairly large volume of evidence that I would
have to.consider even if the parties summed up today.
And so the likelihood is that I wouldn't be in a position
to provide the parties with a decision today even if the
parties did sum up in front of me this afternoon.
There's a great deal that I need to go over.
issues that I think--I suppose in advance of summation
I think there is
One of the
10
that I wanted to direct to the party's attention is I
11
have the evidence obviously, it's represented.
12
of this proceeding has been transcribed.
13
part of the proceeding has been transcribed.
14
far the most recent two days of the proceeding have not
15
been transcribed.
16
Court with regard to whether or not prior to deciding the
17
matter, the Court should review the transcript that is
18
present in the Court's file.
19
verbatim transcript of part of the proceeding but the
20
Court doesn't as yet have a verbatim transcript of the
21
remainder of the proceeding.
22
notes during the proceeding and so I have those that I
23
can refer to.
24
deliberations in a manner that would unduly emphasize one
And part
The most remote

But thus
And so that presents an issue for the
Because obviously that's a
I have obviously taken
But I don't want to conduct my

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188
PROCEEDINGS
portion of the testimony over any other.

MR. LIGUORI:
Your Honor, respectfully, for
completeness purposes we will again ask for and pay for,
as ".W:e::,rciid...l.ast time, the expedited transcripts.
were given to us within a week.
THE COURT:
MR. LIGUORI:
MS. KIM:
MR. LIGUORI:
They
Okay.
Right, Kim?
It was about two weeks I guess.

We would ask--we want you to have
10
the full picture, we will again pay for that and have you
11
had the opportunity to review that.
12
THE COURT:
All right.
And that's fine.
13
mean I wouldn't necessarily want to review half a
14
transcript and not sort of have that verbatim and then I
15
have the rest of it verbatim.
16
MR. LIGUORI:
17
THE COURT:
We understand.
And so--all right.
If that's going
18
to take place then I don't have a problem.
19
sort of ready for the Court in time for me to complete my
20
deliberations then I'll simply avoid reviewing the
21
transcript be I don't want to review part of the
22
transcript.
23
24
MR. LIGUORI:
If it's not
Well, Your Honor, do you think
then that maybe we should find out in an expedited

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189
PROCEEDINGS
fashion two weeks and then consider February 12th, 13th,
something like that for summations due?

THE COURT:
Well I don't have a problem with
the parties just simply doing their summations.
And then
I'll just deal with whether the transcript is available
or not.
you know I've been paying fairly close attention to the
testimony as it's happened and I have taken notes.
if the transcripts available certainly I would review it.
I can decide from my notes and my recollections,
And
10
If the complete transcript is not available at the time
11
when I need to decide then I will not review any of the
12
transcripts.
13
14
15
MR. LIGUORI:
Well what date do you want to
give us then, Your Honor.

THE COURT:
I think we talked about 10 days, 2
16
weeks for written summations and then the Court will
17
decide to that.
18
19
MS. MCNEICE:
Can we set a time then.
Would it
be 2 weeks?
20
MR. HARDIN:
21
MS. MCNEICE:
22
THE COURT:
That's fine.
2 weeks is fine.
2 weeks that's fine.

Okay.
So 2 weeks written
And then the next thing that we're going to
23
summations.
24
need to make a determination with regard to is how we go

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190
PROCEEDINGS
about de1ivery,of the Court's decision.
enters an order on the PFA application most of the time
the parties are present when that happens in order that
we can personally serve the parties and particularly the
respondent with the PFA order.
parties with regard to how they would prefer that process
to take place.
MS. MCNEICE:
THE COURT:
10
If the Court
And so I'll hear from the
As part of our closing we could-Well in terms of the delivery of
the Court's decision is what I'm talking about.
11
MS. MCNEICE:
12
THE COURT:
I understand.
Ordinarily like I said the parties
13
are--the Courts convened and the parties are present and
14
the Court delivers it decision.
15
with doing it otherwise but we do need to make
16
arrangements for any order that's entered to be provided
17
to the parties and to be served on Mr. Busch if there's
18
an order that comes out of the Court's deliberation.
19
I'll hear the party's positions in regards to how they
20
wish to do that.
21
22
23
24
MR. LIGUORI:
I don't have a problem
So
Counsel will be in his stead, we
will accept it and immediately transmit it to him.

THE COURT:
Ms. McNeice, is Ms. Driscoll--is
that acceptable to Ms. Driscoll?
I'll give you time to

22 Cortlandt Street -Suite 802, New York, NY 10007
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191
PROCEEDINGS
talk to her if that's the case to have simply--rather
than have this matter scheduled for a date and time for
the Court to deliver a decision sometime subsequent to
the written summations, simply having the Court deliver
its decision in this case.
case since there's been this volume of testimony over
this amount of time, be a written opinion in addition to
a PFA order, there would likely be a supplemental
disposition that would be referenced.
Which would likely in this
Although the terms
10
and conditions of any order would be stated in the PFA
11
order itself that any written supplemental disposition
12
would simply be for the purposes of- - the Court's
13
reasoning.
14
MS. MCNEICE:
You may absolutely provide it me
15
along with any supplemental comments and I'll make sure
16
that Ms. Driscoll has all the copy or copies that she may
17
need in whatever form the Court wishes for her--
18
THE COURT:
And more importantly is it
19
acceptable to you for the Court to--if there's an order
20
that results from this proceeding, serve Mr. Busch by
21
providing that order to his local counsel who will then
22
provide it to him?
23
MS. MCNEICE:
24
THE COURT:
Oh, I have no problem with that.

Okay, all right.
Then that's the

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192
PROCEEDINGS
way we'll proceed then.
MR. LIGUORI: : Have a nice day.
THE COURT:
All right.
Thank you.
recess.
MS. MCNEICE:
Thank you.
THE CLERK:
[END OF HEARING]
All rise.

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Court in
193
C E R T I F I C A T E
I, Louisa Rettler, certify that the foregoing transcript of

proceedings ..i.n",.t.J:;l,e
Family Court of the State of Delaware,
.
. .
' ~...
.-
County of Kent, in the matter of Patricia P. Driscoll v. Kurt

T. Busch, File No. CK14-02747, Petition No. 14-30621, was
prepared using the required transcription equipment and is a
true and accurate record of the proceedings.
Signature:
Date:
January 20, 2015

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Driscoll vs. Busch, Jan. 13, 2015

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Driscoll vs. Busch, Jan. 13, 2015

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FAMILY COURT OF THE STATE OF DELAWARE

The owner of this transcript will not copy, alter, transfer or

Text messages between P. Driscoll

Ubiqus/Nation-Wide Reporting & Convention Coverage

Family Court State of

Delaware and - - now in session.

Jones presiding in the matter of Driscoll versus Busch.

Pl.ease .be seated in the courtroom.

MR. RUSTY HARDIN:

The Honorable David

Good morning, Your Honor.

getting before you today.

I had an emergency custody

matter that I had to deal with before we could reconvene

was on the stand.

obviously you're still under oath.

When we left yesterday evening, Mr. Busch

sworn, testified as follows:

BY MS. CAROLYN MCNEICE

And, Ms. McNeice.

Yes, thank you.

B U S C H, having been first duly

Good morning, Mr. Busch.

You're here today to complete your testimony.

there any reason why you can't testify at this time?

Are you under any medication or the influence

Ubiqus/Nation-Wide Reporting & Convention Coverage

CROSS EXAMINATION OF K. BUSCH BY C. MCNEICE

of any other substances?

No, rna' am.

I couldn't hear you.

May I ask that you use the

I'm sorry, move it?

You heard testimony and you've admitted yourself

It was a rough year.

Rough year, okay.

There was testimony from your

emotion upheaval with your divorce, starting a new

relationship and some changes in your professional career

3 percent of the time doesn't define somebody 100

percent of the time.

3 percent of your life was in

2011 is that what you're saying?

I would say that there's 365 days in 2011 and 3

percent of those days might have included some of the

CROSS EXAMINATION OF K. BUSCH BY C. MCNEICE

testimony that we've heard about the drinking.

So you were drinking on how many days?

I don't know the math off hand.

[interposing] But you figured it was 3 percent.

3 percent of 365, yeah.

Well 10 percent would be 36 so, 10 percent of

that would 3.6 days?

It sounds about right.

You drank on 3.6 days--

That's 1 percent, yeah.

So less than 10, mm-hmm.

3 percent would be 9 days.

Do you recall the incident in Chicago that

your secretary talked about yesterday?

The incident with the Chicago Cubs game where you

had hit her and had to be--

[interposing] Your Honor, I--