A New Earth Webinar Transcripts

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): A worldwide Web event. ANNOUNCER: Brought to you by Chevy; technologies that go from gas-friendly to gas-free.
Sponsored in part by Post-it Flags; find out what matterfast. Sponsored in part by Skype; bringing people closer with video calling. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Welcome to our very first live worldwide interactive event. We are here tonight breaking new ground. Nothing like this has ever been attempted before. Right now, you all are online with me from every corner on our planet. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Places like Albania, Bolivia, Cambodia, Ecuador, Finland, Hong Kong, China, India, Zimbabwe, Australia, Canada, the UK and the rest of Europe. Along with, of course, all 50 states here in our United States of America. Over 139 countries are represented in our class tonight. Welcome to you all. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So I want to get started. This is the most exciting thing I've ever done. I've done a lot of things in my life, but I am most proud of the fact that all of you have joined us in this global community to talk about what I believe is one of the most important subjects and presented by one of the most important books of our time, "A New Earth: Awakening to Your Life's Purpose." OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I don't think there's anything more important than awakening and also knowing what your purpose is. And for the next 10 weeks, author and spiritual teacher Eckhart Tolle and I will be here in our virtual classroom here on Oprah.com every Monday, 8 p.m. Be on time for class8 p.m. Central. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): We're going to be answering your e-mails. We're going to be having a conversation about each chapter and taking your calls from around the world and your emails from around the world, and seeing some of you around the world through our Skype phones. I'm sure you've already noticed that you can type in your questions on the right side of your screen and send that to us instantly. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And we will, you know, we have a whole team of people here who are ready, waiting, standing by to take your calls and e-mails. And, of course, I'm honored to introduce the author of this great book, "A New Earth: Awakening to Your Life's Purpose," Eckhart Tolle. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR, A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Thank you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah.
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ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Good to be here. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): How exciting this is. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yeah. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's very good. Okay. So let's get class started. The way we're going to work the class is that we will have a conversation and take your calls and your questions whenever we feel appropriate. First of all, I wanted to just talk to you about how this book came to you. I was introduced to this book several months ago when I was interviewing Eckhart Tolle on XM Radio. I have a show on XM Radio. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Not many people know about it, but it's called "The Soul Series." And on that show, I get to talk to anybody I choose, and I choose to speak to people who represent this kind of thinking, this genre of spirituality. And we talk about the soul. So I was interviewing Eckhart Tolle several months ago about his book The Power of Now because that's really all I knew about Eckhart Tolle was The Power of Now. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I call you "the father of now," The Power of Now, which that book was a life-changing book for me. Given to me many years ago, about eight years ago by Meg Ryan, who was on the show. And the producer, Corny, came in and said, well, as I was preparing, she said, "here's this other book he's written called A New Earth." OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And I just had time to thumb through A New Earth, and not really give it its due because I was focused on reading The Power of Now and talking to you about that. And after our interview, started to read this book, and it was absolutelyI felt the shift that you talk about, that you say on page 7 that this will be meaningless to you or you will feel the shift. I started to feel the shift. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And one of the things that really occurred to me as I was going through various chapters and having aha! aha! aha! moment after another, is what a clear how clear this message is. What a clear channel it seemed to come through for you. It was like I'd never, you know, didn't know you or hadn't met you in person, even through the radio, we weren't sitting in the same studio. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): How did this come to be? How did this come through youto you? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Well, it comes out of the space of stillness, and that's where all creative endeavor is born. So it's getting in touch with the stillness within, where there's no mental noise, and out of that stillness, when the time is right, sometimes an impulse comes. Somethinga feeling, a strong sense that something wants to be born into this world.
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ECKHART TOLLE (A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE ): I had the same strong sense before writing The Power of Now. That was 13 years ago when I started writing it. I had left England. I was living in England, and I had this strong impulse one morning, and I was in England still, knowing I had to move to the west coast of North America without knowing why. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): This was just a feeling you had? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, a strong knowing. So it's not through a decision-making process, just the realization, "I have to move there. I don't know why, but I have to go." It was such a totalno, absolutely no doubt about it. So I moved to Vancouver, and then I took a Greyhound bus to California, knew only one or two people, and I said, "Why am I here?" ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Three weeks passed, somebody put me up in a room near San Francisco, and suddenly this came. I bought a notepad, and suddenly the strong stream came through, and I wrote, "What is Enlightenment?" The beginning of The Power of Now. The moment I wrote that, I knew this is the book that wants to be born. So rather than me wanting to write a book, there was a book that wanted to be written. And I OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's like Michelangelo says the angel's in the marble and he just cuts away the marble. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. So and I findI'll come back to that in a secondfor most people that is the approach to "What is my purpose?" To look at what the greater purpose is, "What does the greater purpose want from me? What does life or God want from me?" Rather than, "What do I want from life?" ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So that's the starting point. I know that sometimes in New Age you have the question, "Well, what do you want?" It's fine to ask that question, but a more powerful question is, "What does life want from me? How do I fit into thewhat is the totality? What is my place within the whole?" ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So this is how it started, as knowing that this is what life wants from me. The book wants to be born. And the same thing happened later with the New Earth, again, a similar sense of "Oh, there's another book that wants to come." I didn't know why because everybody told me, "Well, you've said it all in The Power of Now, why write another book?" ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And I, intellectually, I couldn't have answered, "Why am I writing another book?" And it happened.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And it happened. Were you asking life, universal energy? I don't know. What do you call that? As a word do youI call it "God." What do you, what word do you use for that? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Consciousness OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Were you asking consciousness, were you saying, "What do you want from me?" ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. There was a time for quite a few years, I lived in England and I just did some spiritual teaching on a very small scale, sometimes little workshops and so on. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I read in the paper today, in the USA Today where you said you started out with 10 or 12 people in people's homes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, for quite a while I would teach in people's living rooms, invited a group of friends, and this was the beginning of informal spiritual teaching. And as I said to the person who interviewed me, this is coming full circle now because now I'm back in people's living roomsjust more of them. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Just more of them. I think we have more than 10 or 12 joining us this evening. And so the book, would you sit and, you know, passages would come to you? Would you, you know, actively get up at a certain time and say, "I'm going to write today?" Or know what you were going to write before it was written? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No, not knowing it beforehand, but every day there was a space for writing. Every morning and until 2 in the afternoon or so, the space was set aside for writing. That was the writing space. And there were days when the flow was not very strong, so maybe only a few lines got written or even none at all. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Nevertheless, I always honored that space of, "I'm ready for the writing to happen." I'm not saying that the writing happened automatically. My mind was involved. It wasn't a channeled book as such. It was inspired, but not channeled, so it involved my thinking processes too. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): But the thinking process had to be inspired from something deeper. You can't rely on your thinking processes only toand produce something that is powerful and original.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So already you've shared with us that in order to awaken to your life's purpose, one of the key things we must do is not try to tell life what our purpose is, not go around even, I don't know, trying to define for ourselves. Because a lot of people say many timesI've done, you know, seminars across the countryand they'll say, "I don't know what my purpose is." You're saying you must ask life, "What purpose does it have for you?" ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And the answer may not immediately come. Very important part of asking life so that you can be ready to receive the answer is to practice inviting moments of stillness into your life so that you're not continuously absorbed in the incessant mental noise that we call thinking; most of which is unnecessary and repetitive. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So to find spaces of stillness is vital if you want to get to the place where the answers are potentially. So for quite a few years when I lived in England and did spiritual teaching on a small scale, sometimes I would say, "Okay, they could do much more. There's much more that I could do," I said, to life. "I'm ready." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And but life just waited and waited, and the answer didn't come for several years until that morning when he said, "Move." OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Move. Move. Move to Vancouver. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, and why did I have to move to write it there? I didn't realize that, that every place, Vancouver and California, that's where The Power of Now was written, I was moving back and forth. I didn't have a home as such. I stayed with friends moving back and forth. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And so only later I realized I had to move because the energy field on the west coast, this is what I needed for the book to be born. The energy field in England, although I love England, I have a deep inner connection with England. The energy I felt there was not right forin my personal casefor this book to have come out. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Wow. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So I only realized that after I had to go back to England. And then I stayed in a community because I
didn't have a home of my own anymore, and I wanted to continue writing, but I couldn't do very much there because why can't I continue tothe stream stopped. I could only do editing and correction that was necessary too. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): But only when I went back to the west coast, my visa had expired, I had to go to England. When I went back, immediately the flow came back. And I said, "Oh, now I know why I had to move." So it's often trusting life when a very strong impulse comes. But you may have to wait. It doesn't mean that you necessarily immediately obey every impulse. Because impulses can also come from more superficial levels within yourself, and OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But you were wise enough to know the difference; you had discernment. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes, to know the difference. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, it's so interesting because you, in the beginning of A New Earth, start out talking about a flower. And I've heard many people who'vebecause I go on the message boards every day. I'm loving you on the message boards, everybody. And many people are saying that they look at flowers differently now. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I can certainly say that I do. And one of the things that you said that struck me when you said that they are representatives of the spiritual realm, and that when you are still, allow yourself to be still with a flower, or a crystal, or a bird, or really anything of nature. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But you used a flower specifically because ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Because a flower isnature on the whole is a beautiful access point into inner stillness, if you can be there fully present. But a flower is even, everything OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You say "messengers from another realm." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, like messengers. A flower is very much more fragile than a plant. It is more fleeting; ethereal, I think is the word, more ethereal. So it has less density to it than most other things. And because of the lack of density, it's almost as if spirit could flow through it more freely.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So when you contemplate a flower without too much interference of the thinking mind, to actually truly look. This is what Jesus said, by the way. I mean in churches you'll hear, will hear Jesus saying, "Look at the lilies of the field." OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And so when he said that, he wasn't just saying, "Look at the lilies of the field." He said, "Look." OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "Aren't they pretty?" Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): He said, "Look, you really have to look because there is something that they embody, something that you also have. But because of all your anxiety about tomorrow and you're thinking..."I'm translating very freely now, what Jesus said. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): "Why are youthese flowers are not anxious, they have nothey are not concerned about tomorrow, and see how beautiful they are? How God clothes them in such beauty? And you can live like that also." So he used this natural realm and flowers to get people in touch with the dimension of depth within men. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, what's very interesting to me about all of this is that when I read that the first time, I thought it was, you know, a beautiful passage. And then I read it a second time and awakened a little bit more and started to look at nature differently. You know, I have, you know, live in a lovely space where I'm surrounded by flowers, not in Chicago. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But in California, and you know, always just appreciated the garden. "Aren't they lovely in all the different colors, the rose and all that?" And then I decided to move into the garden without naming it. What if I were like a babe? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): What if I were a babe, you know, learning what a flower was for the first time? What if I went out under the oaks that I love so much, but I didn't know it was an oak, I didn't know what to call it? And I shared this at one of our after shows. That for the first time, and I've loved trees all of my life, and the sense of power and stillness they represent. But by not naming those things in nature, that I felt a magical presence. I felt a sense of majesty, and power, and strength, and connection that I'd never felt before.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because I didn't give it a name. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, that's the key. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. I didn't give a name or have a reference for everything that a tree has meant in my life. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That's right. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Isn't it? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That's right. So being present with the perception. And this theme runs, it's perhaps the main theme running through the whole book, is that that state where the compulsive naming of things OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And you start with nature because that's easier to let go of the naming. Later, we'll be talking about that in some gestation OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. Stop labeling people and situations. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, that's more difficult because people invite the labels because there's so much mind in everybody. And they label you and you label them. So, but with nature, this is the starting point to find a different relationship to nature. It doesn't mean that you need to forget what you have learned about trees or about flowers. When it's necessary, you can get that knowledge, and you'd use it. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): But not to be totally in the grip of what you have learned of mental labels, of interpreting mentally, but being able to perceive. One could call it, "perceive the flower," see it through a background of just stillness. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Just stillness.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Which is really consciousness. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, I will tell you, it's an amazing, for all of those you've who tried this, and I know some of you have because you've e-mailed us and said so. But when you start to walk through a park and, or walk in your back yard or begin toand you're right, it's easier with nature than with people. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And pretend that you don't know or just let yourself be in the space without labeling the things, it's just, everything's vibrating, and it's like, you know, scintillating, and ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Everything's exciting. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR "A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE"): Yes. And that's OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Everything's exciting. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, and then you OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): A walk through the park ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That's right. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): becomes exciting, and it's the same path you've always taken. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And before, when you were involved in your mind OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Perhaps you didn't even see it. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Never saw it, yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And so many people are so trapped in this continuous mental noise that absorbs their whole
attention all the time. Every thought absorbs the stream of thinking, absorbs their attention. They don't see that the world around them is vitally alive. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So you become gradually, as youpeople then grow older, the world around them becomes more and more lifeless and dead. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And that happens to them also. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And why is that? Because? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That's just because you are run by mental abstraction. All the concepts and the thoughts on that are abstractions, it's not alive. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So you can't take in the information that's there to be received all around you because you're soyou're in your head. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): You're in your head. You're not present. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): All right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So you're lost in thought. One could say that's the human condition, is being lost in thought. And people don'tbecause it's the famous, what we call, the voice in the head. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): A voice in the head. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That some people have been asking about. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Which we'll be talking a lot about the voice in the head. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So some people say, "What voice in the head?" It's that one. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's that one. All right, so Kelly from Alton, Illinois, joins us via Skype. Kelly? Hi.
KELLY (ILLINOIS): Hi Oprah. Hi Eckhart. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Hi, what's your question? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Hello. KELLY (ILLINOIS): Thank you for having me. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, good. Where are you? Home? KELLY (ILLINOIS): I'm at home. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay, good. This is the coolest thing. Isn't this cool? KELLY (ILLINOIS): It is crazy. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Oh, it's crazy. That's what I think. It's crazy that we're like out here, wherever this is, talking to each other. Okay, what's your question? KELLY (ILLINOIS): Well, my question is regarding religion and spirituality. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Big one. KELLY (ILLINOIS): I had a Catholic upbringing, I married a Catholic, and we're raising our children this way. In reading books such as Tolle's, I've really, it's really opened my eyes up to a new way of thinking: a new form of spirituality that doesn't always align with the teachings of Christianity. So my question is to you, Oprah, how have you reconciled these spiritual teachings with your Christian beliefs? OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Oh, the question's to me. I was resting knowing it was going to aboutI've reconciled it because I was able to open my mind about the absolute indescribable hugeness of that which we call "God." I took God out of the box because I grew up in the Baptist church and there were, you know, rules and, you know, belief systems in doctrine. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And I happened to be sitting in church in my late 20s, and I was going to this church where you had to get there at 8 in the morning or you couldn't get a seat. And a very charismatic minister, and everybody was just, you know, into the sermon. And this great minister was preaching about how great God was and how omniscient and omnipresent, and God is everything. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And then he said, "And the lord thy God is a jealous God." And I was, you know, caught up in the rapture of that moment until he said "jealous." And
something struck me. And I was like, I think about 27 or 28. I was thinking, "God is all, God is omnipresent, God isand God's also jealous? God is jealous of me?" OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And something about that didn't feel right in my spirit because I believe that God is love and that God is in all things. And so that's when the search for something more than doctrine started to stir within me. And I love this quote that Eckhart has, this is one of my favorite quotes in Chapter 1, where he says, "Man made 'God' in his own image. The eternal, the infinite, and unnamable was reduced to a mental idol that you had to believe in and worship as 'my god' or 'our god.'" OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Now I think that's very eloquently put by Eckhart Tolle in Chapter 1. But that is exactly what I was feeling when I was, you know, sitting in church that Sunday listening to the preacher. And you know, it's been a journey to get to the place where I understand, as I said on the preshow here, that what I believe is that Jesus came to show us Christ consciousness. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That Jesus came to show us the way of the heart and that what Jesus was saying that to show us the higher consciousness that we're all talking about here. Jesus came to say, "Look I'm going to live in the body, in the human body, and I'm going to show you how it's done." These are some principles and some laws that you can use to live by to know that way. And when I started to recognize that, that Jesus didn't comein my belief, even as a Christian, I don't believe that Jesus came to start Christianity. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So that was also very helpful to me. And as I said earlier in the preshow here, there is a wonderful book called Discover the Power Within You by Eric Butterworth, which helped me reconcile the two. So that might be really good for those of you who are Christian and trying to balance the two. What would you say? OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because one of the things that Eckhart says in the beginning of this book on page 6 is, "This book's main purpose is not to add new information or beliefs to your mind, or to try to convince you of anything, but to bring about a shift in consciousness, that is to say, to awaken." He says that on page 6. And one of the reasons why I appreciate him so much is because he truly isn't out to become your next guru. He doesn't want, you know, all of you who are online with us tonight and those millions who will now hear about this book, he's not interested in being your guru, correct? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, correct. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. How would you respond to that? That's one of the biggest questions that we have coming into our message boards about the same thing that Kelly is addressing here from Alton about spirituality and religion. This is not trying to tell you how to believe. And how do you advise people to reconcile this with their religious beliefs?
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Well, religion can be an open doorway into spirituality, and religion can be a closed door. It prevents you from going deeper. So that I love reading the New Testament, and I also read the Old Testament. Sometimes there's some incredible jewels in there. And when I went through this inner transformation, and for the first time accidentally I picked up a copy of the New Testament at my mother's place. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And I started reading, and I immediately recognized the deep truths that is there, and I realized the truth that is deeper, that is expressed in what Jesus said, is much deeper than what you, how the church interprets it. There's a depth to it. And it reflects your own depth when you read it. So there's no conflict between this teaching, which is purely spiritual, and any religion. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Because if you go deep enough in your religion, then you all get to the same place. It's a question of going deeper, so there's no conflict here. The important thing is that religion doesn't become an ideologyso, "I believe this." And the moment you say "only my belief" or "our belief" is true, and you deny other people's beliefs, then you've adopted an ideology. And then religion becomes a closed door. But, potentially, religion can also be an open door. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, let me share this with you too, Kelly. There's another book by a woman named Elizabeth Lesser, it's called The Seeker's Guide, where she talks about the new spirituality versus the old. So I just wanted tothis is on page 51 and 52 of Elizabeth Lesser's book called The Seeker's Guide. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And she talks about old spirituality versus the new spirituality, and she says the old wasthe old way isthe hierarchy has the authority. Church authorities tell you how to worship in church and how to behave outside of church. The new spirituality is that you are your own best authority as you work to know and love yourself, you discover how to live a more spiritual life. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): The old is, "God and the path to worship him have already been defined, and all you need to do is follow the directions." The new is being able to listen within for your own definition of spirituality, your deeper longings are under search. And the old says exact here what Eckhart was saying. That there's only one path. It's the right way and all other ways are wrong. And the spirituality says that many paths lead to spiritual freedom and peace. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You have a rich array of gems from which to draw illumination. The world's religious traditional, mythology, psychology, healing methods, scientific wisdom, your own experience and that you can begin to string a necklace all your own. Then she lists, you know, other old and new. And so it's really a question of what you were saying to us earlier that this material strikes a chord within you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Something in you opens up and wants, you know, feels alive and is awakened to that. And yet there is the ideology that says what to you? What is the conflict for you? KELLY (ILLINOIS): Just thoughts on the afterlife, things like that. You know, youin a lot of books such as Tolle's, we get teachings from Buddhism or Hinduism, and those thoughts don't go along with, you know, what I was raised to believe as a Christian. So that's been the biggest thing that I've struggled with, I think, so... OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, I am a Christian who believes that there are certainly many more paths to God other than Christianity. KELLY (ILLINOIS): Right. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I'm a free-thinking Christian who believes that, who believes in my way, but I don't believe that it's the only way, with 6 billion people here on the planet. KELLY (ILLINOIS): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Another also who uses, who might appeal to you, who uses Christian terminology but goes very, very deep, using Christian language and Christian teachingsJoel Goldsmith. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So any OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Joel Goldstein? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Goldsmith. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Oh, Goldsmith. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Joel Goldsmith. Any book by Joel Goldsmith that you would try that, and you can see how deep the Christian teaching can be. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay? KELLY (ILLINOIS): Well, thank you very much. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thanks, Kelly. You're our first Skyper. KELLY (ILLINOIS): Great. I'm honored.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I didn't even know what Skype was until this. Now we're Skyping all over. We have a Chicago study group watching our webcast together at Borders. Hello. Borders flagship store right there on Michigan Avenue. Hi, everybody. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Hello. CROWD: Hi. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I know. Listen, we just, listen, I know it's my ego, but I can't stop saying how cool this is. I hear that's Ryan, you're Ryan? RYAN: Yes, I'm Ryan. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay, Ryan. RYAN: Hello, Oprah. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Hi. Got a question? RYAN: Hello, Mr. Tolle. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Hi. RYAN: I do, I have a question for, actually, either of you, and it relates to the spiritual awakening that you speak of in Chapter 1. It seems to me that if you look at human history in the past 100 years, and very poignantly in the past 10 years, that there has been this intensity and speed at which people are becoming more aware of this Christ consciousness. Why do you think that's happening now? Why is this happening now? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It's happening now because we're reaching a crisis point. Very essential things don't happen until there's an absolute need for them to happen. So you can say in the past this awakening has been a luxury, and only a few individuals here and there through all the ages were able to be awakened. And they tried to teach others, but to a large extent their teachings became misinterpreted. So we are awakening now. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That Jesus was a revolutionary who got misinterpreted a lot. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Yes. We are awakening now because we have to awaken if humanity is to make it to the evolutionary level. We need to awaken because the egoic consciousness will become soit's already been, it already become very distractiveit's become more and more destructive. We will destroy ourselves and the planet if we do not step out of the egoic consciousness, the collective ego.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): If you look at the history of the 20th century that gives you a taste of what it will be if there is no major shift. I wrote in The Power of Now that 100 million human beings were killed by other humans during the 20th century through warfare and so on. And I recently read in a history book by a Harvard professor that my figure was much too low. It's as much as 160 to 180 million human beings were murdered through warfare and concentration camps and prison camps and starvation, manufactured starvation because China, Russia and so on. It's unbelievable insanity when you look at that history. And so if there's no shift in consciousness, we will go downhill very quickly because we're already in the process of destroying the planet. But there will also be continuous conflict, collective conflict, and eventually then humanity would collapse. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So you think we're at a crisis point now. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Crisis point, yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, Ryan, don't you think so too? I mean when you're with your friends, you know, obviously you're gathered here at Borders tonight because you are interested in this kind of, this way of thinking. But we all talk about it in some form or another of how bad things are. How, you know, the mediaeverybody complains about the media and the movies. I mean, if you just look at the Academy Awards this year and the kinds of movies that were made this year, and it's all the reflection of who we are. And you say in the book how we're the species that will go and watch other people on film be maimed and killed and murdered for our entertainment. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes, yes, it's amazing. RYAN: And it's noise. It's the mind; it's all of that. And my friends and I talk about it, and it's things where we want to push that out and say, "Well, we choose not to look at those things. We choose not to surround ourselves with that type of energy." OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But I just got it. I just had an epiphany, an aha!, as Eckhart was talking here. I mean, and I'd read this several times in the book too: the number of people murdered, maimed, destroyed by other human beings during the 20th century. But the aha! for me was, yes, look at what we did in the 20th century. Look at the surge that we've had in our technological abilities. Look at you right now. We're Skyping each other. The advancement in our abilities to create new bombs, new ways of killing each other so that in the 21st century, if there isn't a shift, if you had 100, over 100 million people killed in the 20th century, God only knows. And I do mean God only knows what will happen to us unless we start to change this.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Yes, because technology amplifies the egoic dysfunction in human beings. So, before, the dysfunction was the same 2,000 years ago, but we couldn't do much harm because the technology wasn't there. The very same dysfunction still operates and becomes magnified through science and technology. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Does that answer your question, Ryan? RYAN: It does, and I justit just makes me think of what could we do if we just focused that same energy on the positive and helping other people. And I feel that that's where we're going. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's also not just the positive. One of the things I think we all learn from reading A New Earth: that it's not just about being positive, it's about putting our own egos in check. Because as we begin to move forward in our studies the next 10 weeks, you'll see that first you have to see, you know, see the voice in your head, see how you're contributing to it because I think, you know, for years we've all heard that we're all, if you're not a part of the problem, you're a part of the solution. I think most of us don't understand and I did understand to an extent, but got it even more clearly ever reading A New Earth understand how we're contributing to the problem. And the way we're all contributing to the problem is? Eckhart? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Well, you need to look at your own mind. So it's everybody's responsibility to become aware of their conditioned mental processes: how you react in everyday situations, what kind of thoughts go through your head. It's good to not amplify the negativity that you see around you in the world by reacting to it. You have to be very much aware, of course, of what your mind is doing. So observe your own mind. Be there as the witness of your mind so that the witnessing dimension, which is awareness or presence, grows. You are not your thought processes. The thought processes are conditioned through thousands and thousands of years of conditioning. And there is dysfunction built into the very structure of our thought processes. This is how the ego arises. We'll talk about that in more detail. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): But to recognize in oneself, there isyou may not contribute to the murder and so on out there in the world. But it's everybody's responsibility to discover their dysfunction within them. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, so you get that right, Ryan? What he's saying is is that there is a collective consciousness that he talks about, pages 11 and 12. "The dysfunction of the egoic human mind has created the situation in the world today," he says in A New Earth. And what I hear you saying, Eckhart, is that our individual fears, doubts, angers, jealousies, resentments all contribute to the collective.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And so in order to begin to change the collective, each one of us has a responsibility to sort of mind that within ourselves. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Cause that's how we're contributing to the collective. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, and it's not just the road ragers, it's however you're holding resentment and anger and jealousy and fear in your own life. That's what you're saying. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Yes. What is it that you're putting out into the world? Is there negativity? Mental, emotional? OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): In you. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): In you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Cause that contributes to the collective energy fields. So you can only goso it's up to the individual to go, to step out of the egoic consciousness. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. You got that, right, Ryan? RYAN: That makes a lot of sense. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, it does make a lot of sense. Thank you. RYAN: Thank you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, thank you. Thank you Borders. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Thank you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): We've got Erica who lives on a U.S. military base in Landstuhl, Germany. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Oh, you are in the middle of the night.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): In the middle of the night. ERICA: Yes. Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Hi. ERICA: Morning. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Morning. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Morning, yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Hi Erica. ERICA: Hi Oprah. Thank you so much. This has been crazy as you said. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Crazy fun. ERICA: Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Landstuhl, Germany. Never heard of it, but glad to have you from there. Hello. ERICA: Thank you. Glad, thank God for Skype. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank God for Skype. Okay, what is your question or comment to us? ERICA: Well, my question is for Mr. Tolle. I too grew up in the Baptist church just like Oprah and so many others. And you talk about the voice in my head, and I had a situation where I no longer attend that church because the behavior didn't line up with the teaching. But on Sundays when I'm at home with my family and we're enjoying a nice day and we decided not to go to church, that voice in my head says things like, "You didn't go to church today that's not how you were raised. When your mom calls, what are you going to say?" Can you help me with that on explaining why we have the voice in the head that says things like that? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes, he can help you, Erica. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Now the voice, of course, is the conditioned thinking. The voice, what the voice says is conditioned by
your past, by your childhood, by your upbringing, by the surrounding culture. All those things condition your thought processes. And when yousometimes it happens when you awaken, maybe not completely, but when the awakening process begins, a lot of the old voices in the head, the old thoughts still come up. They still come up, and the essential thing is to recognize them as conditioned thought processes. And to see, because the fact that you're asking the question means there's already an awareness there that these are the voices in your head, so you're not totally identified. Because if you were total identified with the voice, you would say, "I feel so terrible. I really think I should be doing this." But you realize it's the voice in the head that's doing it. And then you can't allow it and say, "Okay, there's an old thought," and allow it to be there and be the awareness behind the thought. And anybody, this is not just in this particular, your particular case. There are many other instances where people have the movement of thought, telling them this or that, interpreting events or people according to the old conditioning. When you meet people, telling you immediately, judging somebody according to your old conditioning, with prejudices, with all the old conditioning. So it'sthe only way you can gradually go beyond the conditioned thought processes is simply to be there as the witness. You don't need to act on it or say, "Go away, I don't want to be thinking this." That doesn't work. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It would only give it more energy. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So again, a vital thing, and this will be going throughout the book and the teaching is, as much as possible, be aware of what your mind is saying and realize that only a small part of the consciousness, the totality of consciousness that you are, many people don't know that yet. They're totally one with the voice. They are the voice. They are so identified with every thought that comes, there's no space between them and the thought. So the essential thing is there'srealize there's thought processes, and here I am at this space for the thought. It's the awareness or the space for the thought. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And that the thought is only a part of ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): a small part, it's the conditioned part of who you are. A more time-bound, it's conditioned by the past. There's a more essential part of who you are, and that is the awareness that knows that there's a OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): The awareness of the thought. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Which we're going to get into in further detail. But also, Erica, let me share this with you. Part of what you and I, our first caller from Alton, Illinois, was also talking about, is trying to reconcile the two. The reason why the voice keeps repeating is because, of course, of what Eckhart is saying; it's conditioned thinking. But also the guilt is you haven't made a decision for yourself about what is real or true for you. So you're still being led by the conditioned thinking and haven't made a decision. And, for me, that came when I was able to do exactly what Eckhart said earlier. I didn't phrase it the way he did. I asked God to use me. That has been my prayer for many years, you know. Eckhart says, "Ask life what is its purpose for you?" But I would pray on my knees to God and ask to be used and to be a servant and to allow his spirit to work through me and to not to just be on television but to be able to use television for a purpose that was greater than my own personality and to collect shoes in my closet. It didn't mean I wanted to give up the shoes, but I would if I had to. So when I started to ask that question of God, "How can I be used? God, how do you want me to live? How would you have me be?" I let go of the guilt of, "Did I make it to church or didn't I make it to church?" Because the majesty and power and omniscience of this force that we call "God" cannot be contained in a church. ERICA: You're right. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Cannot be contained in a church. And does not just want to be served in a church. But if church allows you to feel like you are being of service, then use it that way. But the bigness is what Eckhart was saying in that quote in the book, "Man made 'God' in his image. The eternal, the infinite, and unnamable force" that is God, that is all consciousness, that is universal energyI don't believewishes to be just served on Sunday at 11 o'clock service. So that's what you're trying to reconcile with yourself. The voice in your head versus what you really should be doing. ERICA: That's it. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. ERICA: Thank you, that's it. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You need to make that decision for yourself. ERICA: Thank you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And start asking that question of God. ERICA: Okay. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): All right?
ERICA: I will do that. Thank you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you, Erica, from Landstuhl; Landstuhl, Germany. We have Adam from Redmond, Washington on the phone with a question. ADAM: Yes, hello? OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Oh, on the phone phone. Hi. ADAM: Hi there. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Hi Adam. ADAM: Hi, thank you so much, both of you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I feel a little like Larry King. Is the caller there? A little like Larry King, okay. Go ahead. ADAM: Oh gosh, yeah, well, I used your online study group to create a couple groups out here, which I've called "Embracing Silence." Sort of the purpose of joining together for meditation and study and discussion and to create a field of presence and share with others in that. And I'm curious, what role do you see community or joining with others with the intention of sharing this consciousness, playing in the flowering of human consciousness? OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Good. Good question. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. It's very important, and, of course, what's happening here tonight is part of that also because it is a joining on a level that we haven't seen before. It's the arising presence. You can access it much more easily as part of a larger community or group of people. So to have a, in your home, to have a group of people who practice being present, perhaps listen to a spiritual talk or have a little reading, enter stillness, be present is extremely helpful because an energy field is generated when people come together and enter the state of presence together. So, and this is happening here also, although people are not physically together, and yet there is a energy field now that is generated all over the planet of presence; a different level of consciousness being generated. So it's helpful to join with others. Also, it needs to be said, not to become dependent on any group. It is still your responsibility to bring this new consciousness into everyday life and where you go about your business and your family. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Once you become dependent upon the group, then you've now... ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Then you always need to go back to the group, and you cannot live presence in your daily life. So the
important thing, yes, go to the group to generate more presence, and then your responsibility is to live it in your everyday life where most of the time, perhaps, you will not yet be surrounded by people who are present. You will be surrounded by the old egoic consciousness. So there, that is, and this is the challenge for everybody now who is awakening that, yes, more and more people are beginning to awaken, and yet there are still vast numbers of people on the planet who are not. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Who are not. But I was going to say that when Ryan from Borders was speaking to us and was saying, you know, the need to be more positive when there's all this energy in the world. Look, we have 700 and some thousand of us all gathered here this evening, which is a huge positive force. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): In creating the shift. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And it's a different kind of community. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Like we've never seen or experienced before. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That's right. Yes. And then of course the otheranother kind of community is generated through the Internet now and all these things that I don't know much about, but it's happening. So how people communicate with each other. Again, there's a, people are being linked in different ways with each other. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): This is a rising of a new consciousness that he speaks about, Adam. ADAM: Well, it certainly is, and it's, you know, it's very pleasurable to spend time with others in sharing this consciousness, you know, like you said. When you're under the tree and you felt the, you felt that oneness and that majesty. Well, imagine if you had someone sitting there next to you to share that experience with. I think it makes it even that much more sacred. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I did have my two dogs, Luke and Layla were there. ADAM: Ah, wonderful. Wonderful. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thanks, Adam.
ADAM: Little secret moment. Yes, thank you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you, Adam. That's Adam from Redmond, Washington. Let's see some of the questions that you're sending us now, oh, this is cool, on e-mail. Okay, we're going to check the computer screen here. Caught up. Questions are, nothing's there. Nothing's there. So I'll keep talking. One of the things that really struck us so was so many people responded to this; page 13. "You don't become good by trying to be good." "You don't become good by trying to be good." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And carry on. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): There's more to that sentence. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes there is. Let's go to page 13 to find it. "You don't become good by trying to be good, but by finding the goodness that's already within you, and allowing that goodness to emerge. But it can only emerge if something fundamental changes in your state of consciousness." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. So what that means, if nothing changes in your state of consciousness, the ego has many ideas. It says, "I want to be a spiritual person. I want to be recognized as a spiritual person. I want to be more spiritual than all these people. And I'm definitely more spiritual than you." So the ego has all kinds of ideas of what it wants to be. It might even say, "Yes, I want to be good." Because it wants to have a better image of itself. But on that level, the essential dysfunction of the ego is still operating. So this is why we have the phrase, "the road to hell is paved with good intentions." Because no matter how good your intentions are, when you're still trapped in the ego, it will always take you into conflict eventually. So there are people OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's why I was saying to Ryan, you can't just think positively. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): If there's such thing. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It's no enough. You have to go deeper. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I mean you can think positively, but it is not enough because eventually something negative will come along to challenge the positive. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So you must ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It's the realm of opposites. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So you have go deeper beyond the realm of opposites where there's good and bad. And for each a place within yourself that is unconditioned, that is what I sometimes call the formless consciousness, spirit expressed beautifully in the Old Testament in the little saying, "Be still and know that I am God." That is, and that's in the Old Testament. It contains the entire wisdom of religion in those few words. "Be still," meaning go to that place where the mind is no longer operating. You are just conscious without thinking. And that is the level where the eternal resides. So the eternal, the formless, the spirit, is the essence of every human being. No matter how insane or conflict-ridden it may seem to appear on the surface, within every human being, that remains untouched. There's nothing that anybody could have done to you or nothing that you could have done to others to destroy that. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's always there. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It's always there, and that is the grace of being here, and no matter how much madness there has been in your life, that remains untouched. So it's getting in touch with that deepest place within. And you can only do that by becoming still. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Now becoming still does not mean you go to sleep. It means you're actually more alert than when you are thinking. You have to invite the stillness into your life as much as possible. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's why I loved your book Stillness Speaks. It's only that small [gestures], but every page is a gem. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And also, it's what I was saying earlier, that in order to feel, that the way you feel thatfor everybody who is listening to us nowthe way to begin to feel that is
to look at nature. If you were to go out and just be with a tree, and I don't mean hug a tree, we're not talking about now you got to go hug a tree and eat granola, but if you were just to be with anything in nature. I like trees because they're so majestic, they're so powerful and visual. And if you're with it for a time, you start to sense the presence of it, the stillness of it, and begin to recognize that stillness within yourself. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. So what you sense in the tree is also in you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And it's always in the tree. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Even when the wind is blowing and there's a storm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And that's, that is also a sacredness that is there in the tree. And now our world doesn't know much that's sacred. It has become an abstract concept, nobody seems to know what sacredness is until you can feel it. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Until you can feel it. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): When you feel, then you don't need a definition. People ask, "Please define what sacred is." You don't need a definition of what sacred is because sacred is the essence of who you are. So it's sensing that and you can sense it when you're still enough. You sense it in the tree. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Now, isn't it interesting that you first came to recognize this when you were about to kill yourself? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Yes. Sometimes you have to reach a limit. Humans have to reach a limit. Human species as a whole is reaching that limit, but also, on a personal level, sometimes people have to be pushed to the limit. My ego was so obstinate, and my pain-body was so strong, I had to be pushed to the limit before it cracked open. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, before we go into any further, share that moment that you talk about in the beginning of The Power of Now where you're about to kill yourself. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Feeling so much pain. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Dreadful suffering at night. I would often wake up in extreme feeling of dread and fear; consumed by dread and fear. The whole world seemed alien. I saw the thought one night, I woke up again and the thought came, "I can't live with myself any longer. I just can't live with myself any longer; it's so painful." And that thought repeated itself a few times. And then suddenly, something happened inside me, and I looked at the thought. That was of course awareness. I didn't know at that time what it was. I became aware of the thought and I said, "I cannot live with myself. That's strange, so there must be I and there must be myself. Am I one or two? I seem to be two. Because if I can't live with myself, there must be two of me here." OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, and everybody has felt that. Not to kill themselves, but everybody has felt or heard you say to yourself, "I said to myself." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "I said to myself." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And, of course, the entire, what we call the voice in the head, we could also call it "self-talk." Where you talk to yourself. And most people address themselves as "you." So the voice is, "You shouldn't have done that." Or "You should" OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So there'sconstantly there's a separation inside human beings which is the essence of ego. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That there's a, here's an image of who I think I am and then there's a me. They get mixed up together. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. I'm sorry I interrupted you, that thought, though. You're getting ready to kill yourself, said, "I can't live with myself any longer." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Said that several times in your mind.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And then I, I became aware of the structure of the sentence. And said, "If that's the case, then who is the self that I cannot live with? And who am I?" OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Wow. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And that moment, a separation happened completely between the essential "I," which is the essential consciousness that I am, beyond past and future; the eternal stillness. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Stillness. Stillness. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): But awake stillness. And all my thought processes, which were ego would beall my thought process, well, that created the dreadful suffering. The mind-created entity, the unhappy me, was continuously fed by my thinking. It consisted of thinking, a stream of thinking. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So did you just decide that night? "I guess I'll wait to see if I will kill myself?" ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No. The, kind of, it was a kind of spiritual suicide, so the ego died instead of me having to jump off a bridge, fortunately, the ego died. The ego dissolved as the unobserved mind dissolved. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): The ego. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): The full self, the me, the unhappy story. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Oh, got it. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Me as the unhappy, my identity as me and my unhappy story OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Died. Died, dissolved. Because the "I" behind it suddenly woke up and said, "Who is that self that I can't live with?" And when you fully look at that self, it actually dissolves because it cannot survive in the light of intense consciousness. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Wow. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And so the next morning I woke up, and I didn't know what day it was. It was strange, what happened. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Eckhart, were you drinking?
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No drinking, no drugs. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Did you have a couple sips of something? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Nothing. It just happened, and I felt like being drawn into a kind of vortex, and then I went to sleep. And the last thing I felt, there was still some fear. The voice said "Don't resist, or resist nothing. Don't resist, resist nothing." And so I must have gone to sleep then. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You had your first good nights sleep in God knows when. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And the next morning I woke up and looked around and looked, everything looked so fresh. All the old furniture, the pencil. Everything looked fresh and alive. As I caught a bird song outside as if I'd never heard it before. Because the mind had become still, and there was simply the beautiful perception of everything. The sunlight coming through the curtains. Incredible. I've never seen that before. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Sounds like a drug trip. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Well, later on, people tell me, they ask me, "Is that like acid?" Because some people take acid and they say, "Oh, we experienced that when we took acid," they told me many times. Until finally, I'll tell you in confidence, finally I tried acid just for once. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You're telling me in confidence here? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay, good. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): I tried it just once just to see OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): If it was the same thing? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah?
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It's not quite the same thing because what I experienced was much more subtle and beautiful. The acid I experienced has almost a violent thing where violently the perceptions, sense perceptions become so magnified that there was no room for thinking anymore. But I could see why people say, for some people it's a glimpse of what it means to perceive the world without this continuous interference of mental noise. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, but your trip without acid was better. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Much better. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. Well, I, part of what you're describing is what I came close to that when I decided to go outside without naming things or labeling things is what I was describing earlier. Walking through the park, walking around, you know, my house, which is like a park. Everything was like vibrating, and it was the colors and everything. The sense perception was very different because I wasn't in my mind thinking about it. I was just there to experience it. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's how you get to that place. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That's right. So when you are no longer there when you walk through your garden or wherever. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And you're not naming every flower. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): You're not naming, and also you're not carrying the burden of a heavy "me," a personality, a person with its problems, with its past, with its future. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You're not thinking. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): About anything. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So you are, basically you'll become a conscious presence perceiving the beauty around you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, it's fascinating. Well, okay, we do have an e-mail now from Kathy, Delta, Colorado. Is that where you're well, no, she can't talk, it's e-mail. "How do I shed
the years, or rather, decades of conditioning and distractions, sickness, relationships, work, in order to hear and feel the moments of stillness? Which is what we were just talking about. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. The good thing is you don't need years and years to undo years and years of conditioning because OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Good in an instant. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Only now. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Only now. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So it's the access point is the present moment. The present moment is the point of power to enter the state of consciousness. So we need to lean how to find in our daily life, as often as possible, this point of power of the present moment. Because if we don't, we get continuously dragged along by the old conditioning of the mind, all the old thought processes, all the old reactions and so on. So there are many little things you can do to access the power of the present moment. For example, very simple thing. Ask yourself, "Am I still breathing?" Now what does that mean? To find out if you're still breathing, your attention needs to move from the thinking into here [gestures to mouth]. And you suddenly feel the air flowing into your body and out of your body. Mm-hmm, yes, I'm breathing. And at that moment, you've entered the stage of presence. Even if it's only five seconds, you've entered that. You've become present. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): In the moment. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): In that moment. Another thing I suggest is when you do habitual everyday motionslike washing your hands or walking across the room or walking down the stairs or the slightest thing, taking a cup out of the cupboarddo it consciously, do it being present of every, the feel, for example, when you wash your hands, feel the water, smell the soap. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): We have this in one of the workbook exercises online. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Sense perceptions, becoming acutely conscious of sense perceptionswhich means looking, hearing, touchingbrings you to the present moment. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): How is that going to help me because I started doing that going up the stairs. I was going, "One foot on the stairs. There's another foot on the stairs. There's another foot. Okay, I'm at the top of the stairs now." I was present walking up the stairs. What does that do for me, Eckhart?
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Were you present? OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I think I was. "There's a foot, there's a foot, there's a foot on the stairs." I'm just there, the movement. The feeling, feeling the motion of my body and how many parts of the feeling, feeling the motion of my body and how many parts of my body have to move to get me up the stairs? "I used my thigh muscle there. I used the back of the leg or my ankle" ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Nature's presence. I wasn't sure upon the way you say it, I thought you were repeating mentally, "Here's one step, and here's another step," but you were not. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): No I was not. I was feeling every part of what it took to get me up the stairs. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. So now the mind says, "What's the point in that?" OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): The mind then said, "Okay, now you were present getting up the stairs. Now what?" ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And at the body says, "I've got more important things to think about." OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes it did. Mine said, "Now what did that do you?" ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Now, to the mind, that kind of thing's completely meaningless because you're inviting a different state of consciousness into your life which the mind cannot understand. But this is how you bring in awareness. This is the end of the old conditioning. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And you bring in a consciousness that is totally fresh and new that comes out of the present moment. And the more you bring those moments of presence into your life, the more your old conditioning becomes eroded gradually. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I see. So learning to do it with washing your hands. I just got this.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Simple things. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): This is good. This class is good for me. I don't know about the rest of you all, but I got it now. Just learning to do the simple things begins to retrain your mind. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And another thing is, most simple things that you do which actually fill up most person's everyday life because the whole day consists of simple things that you have to do. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): They're all relatively simple. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And the way most people live is that everything you do is a means to an end. And the end is where you want to get to, the next moment. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. So you're never thinking about the moment. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No, because you want to get to the next one. You're washing your hand in order to already do that. Or you're makingwhile you're making a cup of coffee, you really want to be drinking it. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Jon Kabat-Zinn says in his book Coming to Our Senses that most people every morning, people take a shower, or they bathe or something, but most people are in the shower, but they never actually get to experience a shower because they're thinking they're already in the office. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): They're already in the office. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And then everything you do is a means to the end. The end is always the next moment in the future, which never arrives because all you ever have in life is the present moment. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Present moment. So you're constantly frustrated, creating anxiety for yourself and stress. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Stress.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because you can't just be present now. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Present now. And the power can only flow into your life when you are present completely, totally, with what you're doing now. And this is why most people's lives do not have this power because they're always living for the next thing, so they devalue the present moment. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Got it. That's why walking up the stairs, being with the stairs, teaches you how to be present with other things. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And then gradually you can be present with when you are with other human beings. You can be totally present in whatever work you do so that the work is not a means to an end, but you are totally there with what you do. Your attention. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, I see Cinda from Oregon has been waiting to talk to us. Cinda, hi, from Oregon. What is your question? CINDA: Hello Oprah, hello Eckhart. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Hi. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Hi. CINDA: Hi, hey I am so grateful for this opportunity to have Eckhart answer my question. Thank you for having me participate in this. And Eckhart, I need you to know that I am grateful that when you tried acid, that you preferred enlightenment more than that because my children are upstairs listening in on this. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Cause he was going to say, and interrupted him, you were saying, "I don't recommend it." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No, I don't. (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE ): No I don't. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Why? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Because it's, you will always fall back. It's not, you always fall back to the old state of consciousness, and it's almost, I experienced as almost a violent thing being done to me. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay, good. I wanted to say that for the children upstairs, Cinda. CINDA: Yeah, thank you Oprah.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you, your question. CINDA: Well, my question is this. And, you know, first of all, I also want to tell Eckhart that his words in his book have moved me to my core. And I am a new person because of it. And not only because of my internal changes, but the way that I am in the world that I live. And I am so grateful for that. Thank you, Eckhart. I want to ask a question, it's something that we've already talked about a little bit tonight, but I feel it's important enough to bring up again. And I believe that the way that Eckhart answers this question might just be the catalyst to change that we need in order to save our planet and ourselves. On pages 20 and 21 in the book, you talk about, in an ever-changing world or an ever-changing environment, a species needs to either adapt or they will die out. And then you go on to say, and I quote, "that humanity is now faced with a stark choice: Evolve or die." My question to you is this: When you say "evolve or die," do you mean that literally, and it sounds like you might, or do you mean that metaphorically, which I hope? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): "Evolve or die" refers to humanity as a whole, whether humanity survives as a species. Even if humanity did not survive as a species, no gain in consciousness is ever lost within the totality of consciousness. So the fact that we are here, and consciousness, which is really all that exists, we are only forms that come out of consciousness. And consciousness is the evolutionary process of the universe. And we are here together as part of this evolution of consciousness, which comes through the human form. Consciousness can use and does use millions and billions of other forms and evolves through that out of the unmanifested. In the unmanifested, consciousness is already perfect, or God, you could say. Timeless perfect, eternal, no change. And then you have this so-called manifested dimension, which some ancient teachers have described as a kind of dream, which is what it is. But for some reason consciousness wants to come into this world of form. And in this world of form, it evolves. So one could say that gradually, more and more Godwhich is another world for consciousnessGod comes into this world and a form gradually emerges. God comes there you, God comes through me, God comes through you. Gradually, more and more. The density of form lessens. And this is what's happening. So even if humanity didn't make it, consciousness, the gain in consciousness that has already been achieved by those human beings that have become conscious, may consciousexpress itself much more easilyat least in some other form because, ultimately, we are not the form, we are not the body that we see. You are not the form that is sitting there. In essence, you beyond, you are the formulas, consciousness itself. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You're the stillness. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Temporarily assuming this particular form. And, of course, the form eventually is going to dissolve anyway because then consciousness moves on. Consciousness is continuous evolution. Continuous metamorphosis, it's a wonderful process. So there's nothing to be
scared of because, ultimately, when I say "evolve or die," I'm only speaking humanity as a species. But, ultimately, nothing dies. It's only a transformation of consciousness, a transformation of form. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): A transformation of form, yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Of form, so there is no death ultimately. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But you do mean the end of our human species as we know it. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, that is a possibility. But the fact that we are here tonight should give us hope and confidence that humanity is going to make it because this is growing, and not just this teaching, the other spiritual alive spiritual teachings. There is an enormous awakening happening on the planet. So nobody knows, nobody knows, I don't know the answer whether humanity is going to make it. But I do feel confident now, more so perhaps than before, that we are going to make it. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, yes because that's one of my favorite quotes, too, Cinda, that we are, "A significant portion of the earth's population will soon recognize, if they haven't already done so, that humanity is now faced with the stark choice: Evolve or die." Thank you for raising that question in such a beautiful way, Cinda. CINDA: Thank you Oprah, thank you Eckhart. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thanks for joining us. Casey in Asheville, North Carolina, is on Skype and has a question also for Eckhart about The Secret. Casey? CASEY: Hi, Oprah. Hi, Mr. Tolle. I was debating about whether to read this book because it looked very deep to me, to be honest, and I have a 1-year-old and I hang out with her all day, and I didn't know if I was ready for it. But Oprah, when I saw your show on The Secret and the bubble man and all that good stuff, I thought, "I have got to read that book" because you talked about itin that show. So my question is this: When I put out into the universe, when I ask God for things, for hopes and dreams and material things, and a lot of times I get them. Those material things, I think they may be coming from the ego, and I just wonder, Mr. Tolle, is that wrong? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Okay, well, it's not wrong. You can always easily recognize that something is coming from ego because when you get it, it doesn't satisfy you. That's always a sign that it's coming from ego. It may satisfy you for a little while and then, "Oh, I need more. I need something else." So that's a good learning process. You can manifest things, and if you see "Oh, these not satisfying," it must have been the ego. So there's nothing wrong with manifesting things. The only illusion would be to expect things to provide some ultimate satisfaction in your life. Things can't do
that. The world of form can't ultimately satisfy you. You can enjoy the world of form, but the true satisfaction doesn't come from there. The world can't do that. The world can't make you happy. Things cannot give you happiness. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Because happiness comes from a deeper place within you that you can only access in the present moment. So it's fine. We live in the world of things. Why not manifest things as part of the game of, in this life, the game of form? But if you expect some kind of satisfaction, then you will always be frustrated. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Which is going to be, I think we get into that a lot in Chapter 3, Chapter 2 and Chapter 3. Not allowing yourself. CASEY: Oh, I loved Chapter 2. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Loved Chapter 2. CASEY: So good. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Not allowing yourself to be defined by the things. To be in the world and not of it is how I describe it. To have things. I have lots of beautiful things, and I love beautiful things. And later on, in one of the chapters, he talks about when you say that you're not defined by things, what happens to you if you were to lose any of those things. The depth of your, you know, grieving or sorrow or, you know, so-called suffering determines how attached you were to those things. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, and for many people OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You can say, "It doesn't matter to me," until somebody steals your car. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That's right. For many people, that's a very important lesson when suddenly they do lose something. It can be a wonderful spiritual lesson. And then you, perhaps you'd suffer, and then your attachment gets broken, and suddenly you go beyond the attachment. So there have been people who've lost everything and suddenly become free of the ego because the ego had nothing left to identify with. So this can happen. And another important thing to mention with regard to manifestation is the basis for your life is the present moment. You need to first of all, the very basis for everything is to come to an acceptance of this moment as it is. Gratitude is part of that. Of course, we'll be talking about that in more detail. So that there is neediness when you manifest. It's the neediness that's dissatisfaction, for example,
in your life. If there's dissatisfaction, that is not a good place, not a good starting point for changing your life. The ego may tell you that but it isn't. You need to find a place of acceptance. Not OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Wow, that's powerful. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No matter where you are, come to terms and become friendly with the present moment. Because if you do not become friendly with the present moment, you're not friendly with life because life is only now. If you're not friendly with life, life cannot support you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But did you just say that being in a place of dissatisfactionbeing dissatisfied is not a good time or place to change? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It's first you can see the totality of the situation. Let's say, I use the example in The Power of Now, you are stuck in the mud. You're walking somewhere and suddenly you get deep in the mud up to your knees. You wouldn't say, "Okay, I'm satisfied with this situation." You can't be satisfied with this situation, and you know that you need to get out. But you say, "Okay. Here I am stuck in the mud, and I need to get out." There's no OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Cursing the mud. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Negative reaction, cursing. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Damn this mud. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Or a struggle against. Because if you struggle against, you get in deeper. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You're going to get more mud on you. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. So very important, perhaps one of the key things here in this, or in any spiritual teaching, is the question that you need to ask yourself as much as possible. You can even put it on your bathroom mirror or some other places where you often look. And that question is, "What is my relationship with the present moment?" And to become very conscious of that, and then you find out you become alert. "Okay, what's my relationship with this moment? Is there negativity, in which case I'm fighting, I'm making the present moment into an enemy."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. What you say is, "What you resist persists." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So you must make peace with the moment. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Doesn't mean you have to approve the situation. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But you must make peace with the moment in order to get yourself out of it. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Cause resisting is only going to cause more of it. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And that's absolutely vital. So ease with what is. The "isness" of this moment is already as it already is as it is. The ego doesn't understand that, but you can't really argue with what is because it already is. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So you must accept whatever it is first before you begin to change it, that's what you're saying. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): There must be acceptance. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Acceptance of what is first. Then action comes out of the acceptance. It no longer comes out of resistance. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Got it. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Which is a totally different energy flows into what you do when it comes out of an acceptance of this is what is and then action happens that is actually empowered by life itself. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I think that explained it, Casey.
CASEY I think so too. Thank you so much, that was amazing. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you so much. I just wanted to go back to spirituality and religion for a few moments in the few moments we have remaining because I know that's still such a major issue with so many of you. And you say on page 17 that "the more you make your thoughts or beliefs into your identity, the more cut off you are from the spiritual dimension from yourself." You also say on page 18: "How 'spiritual' you are has nothing to do with what you believe" ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "but everything to do with your state of consciousness." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. How spiritual you are reads, "How present are you at this moment? Are you in your thoughts, or are you there as the awareness behind your thoughts?" OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Which is your spirit. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Stillness. So the, often in the newspapers and the media, they always ask, "What do you believe in?" That is not an important question, what I believe in. It's the important question is, "Are you present at this moment?" Not what your belief structures are. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I think people want to know what you believe so they can label it and decide whether they are going to like you accept you or not. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And they want to know, "Do you believe the same thing that I believe because if you don't, you're my enemy." OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. You're laughing at that, okay. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Well, it's mad, it's better to laugh at madness. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes, yes. I just wanted to mention this person, Maria from Doha, Qatar. Just want to say Doha, Qatar. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): In what country? OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Qatar.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Qatar, okay Qatar. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): She says, "Do you think that people are willing and ready to set aside a time required in each day? Is this possible in a global sense? Would anyone who thinks their life is fine be willing to waste time just sitting in order to raise their consciousness level?" ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Well, better I would change the question a little bit to make it more vital and more relevant just ask, "Am I ready?" The only question you really need to answer is, "Am I ready to do this?" You don't need to know whether other people are ready to do it. Only you can have the answer, "Am I ready to be still?" OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Very good, Mr. Qatar. Am I ready? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): See, that's the vital question and only you can answer that. I can't answer that. I can't answer that. Are you ready? Or are you so fascinated by the things of this world and your mind that perhaps you need to pursue those things for a few more years until you suffer a bit more, and then you're ready. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, yes. When we were doing rehearsal for this yesterday, we were up on Skype and someone said, "I'm 28 years old, and I don't think need to be awakened. So what can I get from this book?" I go, don't waste your time. Go read another book. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. If you don't think you need to be awakened then ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes? OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. If you don't think you need to be awakened, then.... ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No, that's right. So the time is not yet there for everybody, and that's fine too. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): What about the people who are struggling, particularly in this first chapter with the book? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): The first chapter is a little bit more conceptual than the other chapters and less practical. I wanted to give a general context for where the book fits into the general context of spirituality on the
planet or transformation of consciousness on the planet. So just read through. There are already very important pointers in the first chapter if you can see them. We'll run through the whole book, presence and so on. Just carry on, not only the first chapter, anywhere in the book. Don't expect to immediately understand everything. That's not necessary. And besides, understanding the book is not the essential thing, it's secondary. The first thing is to experience the truth of it rather than conceptual understanding, the essence of what's in the book but, in any case, cannot be understood conceptually. For example, presence. People say, "Can you explain to me what presence is?" I've already given a few pointersto go beyond that and give further definitions. You can only know what presence is by being present. You must have at least a glimpse of presence whichand this is why it's not understanding that's the essence. So when you don't understand, just read on. It's a process; reading this book is a process. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. And this book, as you say, again, as I said in the beginning, this isn't about creating more information for you to believe in. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And you don't want to be anybody's guru. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No, no. So it's only, it's not through your mind really that you can get it. Anybody who finds this book meaningful, and this is the important thing, is already awakening. If you're not awakening already, this book will be completely meaningless or any other truly alive spiritual book will be meaningless. You won't understand it all. You'll say, "There's not much there. I don't know, it doesn't make sense to me." If it does make sense, especially if you feel something from within responding and just say, "Wow, yeah." OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, I think also too for all of you who've joined us, there are a lot of people who are expressing, they're getting it, they're awakening, they're feeling more alive and excited. And then you want to go share it with somebody else who perhaps hasn't read the book, doesn't feel the same as you, and then they feel frustrated. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And I guess you would say the same thing you say to the woman in Qatarjust worry about yourself. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And so if other OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Concern yourself with yourself.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That's right. And if friends or relatives say, "Doesn't make sense to me," that's fine. Perhaps in a few years time they will be ready, we don't know. So it's to accept that it's not yet for everybody. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Accept it first. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Accept. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Accept. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Accept. Don't demand or don't make it into an ideology and then try to convince people that they must be present. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. I got it. Before we say goodbye, I want to thank you for being with me, all of you out there. This is just the most exciting thing I have ever done, being able to talk with you all and share this kind of information that allows all of us to get closer to who we really are so that we can do or honor our life's purpose and calling here while we're on earth. We'll be here next Monday again at 8 p.m. Central. If you want to experience this first class again or tell a friend who missed it, our webcast will be available on demand tomorrow for free here at Oprah.com. You will also be able to update your workbook and get started on Chapter 2. And if you want to download the podcast of this class, you can do that too at Oprah.com and at iTunes. Next week, woo! Moving out of the conceptual Chapter 1 into the good stuff. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Moving on. The next week we'll be talking about the ego. Wow. We'll see you next Monday night. Thank you, Eckhart. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Thank you. Thank you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And thank you so much to all of you around the world. Goodnight.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Welcome to our second New Earth webcast. It is one of my greatest joys to unite all of us around the world and share the possibilities of awakening together. Along with a multitude of North Americans, we also have students registered in this class from countries like Afghanistan, Argentina, Belgium, Brazil, Croatia, Denmark, Egypt, Ireland, South Africa and even a few of you from Zanzibar, I hear. Thank you. Since last week, 1,860,000 of you have streamed or downloaded our first class. I just want you to know it's always available if this pioneering effort again tonight should break up and we have webcast problems, you can go to Oprah.com tomorrow or iTunes and begin streaming afternoon. Well, for the next nine weeks, author and spiritual teacher Eckhart Tolle and I planned to be right here in our virtual classroom on Oprah.com Monday nights at 8 p.m. Central to discuss each chapter and talk with you about it. And you can type in your questions on the right side of your screen and send that to us instantly. And throughout this class, we're going to also talk directly to students via Skypeso coolfree software that allows you to make Internet and video phone calls all over the world. Welcome again, Eckhart Tolle. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Thank you. Thank you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, last week, you shared with us how there are tools that we can use to bring ourself into the present moment. And you were saying from that first chapter thatand throughout this bookthat there is only the present moment. And you were saying that if we would allow ourselves to take ourselves out of our mind and just go to our breath that we could learn presence that way. That's how you begin to learn presence. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And I suggest that we all do that right now, which is to say we are taking our attention right now away from where it usually dwells, which is in the head and in the thinking mind, and we direct our attention to our breath. And the simple question that one could ask is -- or you could ask yourself is, "Am I still breathing? Let's just check if I'm still breathing." Now, how do you find out whether you're still breathing? You have to take your attention away from the thinking mind OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): and sense yourself breathing right now.
Copyright 2008 Harpo Productions, Inc. All Rights Reserved. Prepared by PeopleSupport which takes sole responsibility for accuracy of transcription. No license is granted to the user of this material other than for research. User may not reproduce any printed copy of the material except for the user's personal or internal use and, in such case, only one copy may be printed, nor shall user use any material for commercial purposes or in any fashion that may infringe upon Harpo Productions, Inc.'s copyright or proprietary interests in the material. Excerpts from A NEW EARTH are used by permission of Penguin Group (USA) Inc. Copyright 2005 by Eckhart Tolle
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OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And as you are taking attention away from the thinking mind, which always works using past and future, it strains itself by always generating past and future thinking OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): you also enter the present moment when you take attention away from thinking, direct attention to your breathing. You're always breathing, but usually you're not aware of it. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And now we are bringing awareness to it, which means we are taking attention away from thinking. So we are not losing consciousness. We are very conscious, but thinking much less or perhaps not at all. So let's do this now. This has never been done on television. It's unprecedented, but we can do it here. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. Yes. Silence is usually not good on TV. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But let's try it ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes . OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): for the next 10 seconds. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): 10 seconds. Just be aware of yourself breathing. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. I'm still alive. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I just checked in. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Perhaps even more alive when you're engaged in thinking. There is a deeper sense of aliveness there that you are just beginning to touch when you get in touch with thatthese inner processes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. I think that's pretty cool that all around the world, and all of these different countries I just named, that all us come together in silence for a moment just to give our minds a break. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. Well, this is the most exciting chapter, until you get to the next chapter. I think Chapter 2 is the most exciting chapter. As we said last week, Chapter 1 is pretty conceptual, you would agree? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You're the one who wrote it. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Pretty conceptual. But in Chapter 2, titled, "Ego: The Current State of Humanity," we get into, I think, a way of understanding ourselves, that perhaps so many people were not aware of until beginning to read this. So I would just like to just get right into this chapter. When you say, "When you don't cover up the world with words and labels, a sense of the miraculous returns to your life that was lost a long time ago when humanity, instead of using thought, became possessed by thought." What do you mean by that? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Now, usuallyand everybody can verify this in their own experiencewe experience the phenomenal world, whatever we experience. We don't experience it directly. It is overlaid with self-talk, which are the mental processes. So as you go about your life, you encounter situations, you meet people, you do your work. And most of the time, there is a voice in the head, which is the, it can be called the self-talk, it can be called the inner voice. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): But it is the conditioned thought processes, and they are commenting and interpreting and mentally labeling whatever it is you're perceiving or experiencing. So there's always a running commentary in people's heads.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So they don't relate to the world directly and immediately, but through the veil of the self-talk. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So when and this greatly decreases the sense of aliveness, the sense of how you relate to the OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): to the outer world, and especially to human being. For example, if every time I meet another human being, I immediately have certain thoughts and judgments in my head that come up the moment I meet a person, I'm already thinking something about this person. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right. You've already labeled. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): I've already labeled, and so I'm no longer really in communication with that person. I'm in communication with my own labels. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. And what you said to us last week and you also say in this chapter, "Even a stone, and more easily a flower or a bird, could show you the way back to God, and the Source, to yourself. When you look at it or hold it and let it be without imposing a word or mental label." And what you were saying last week is that if you can learn to do that in nature first, stop labeling things, just feel the essence and presence of things, it allows you then to be able to gradually move into doing that with people. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That's right. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because so often, we don't engage in presence with people. We've already labeled them and labeled the situation. And so we're reacting out of the situations and not out of what's actually happening. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's what you're saying. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. We've already put people into mental boxes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And so we no longer experience them as in their full aliveness. We have desensitized ourselves through this continuous mental conceptualization. We have desensitized ourselves to the aliveness of other human beings. Because the moment I put a label on another human being, I've already desensitized myself to their life. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So you say, "The quicker you are in attaching verbal or mental labels to things, people, or situations, the more"I'm on page 26, everybody, at the bottom"the more shallow and lifeless your reality becomes, and the more deadened you become to reality, the miracle of life that continuously unfolds within and around you." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. I go for a walk every day in a little forest at home and, often, I encounter people who are jogging or friends going for a walk. And most people aresome are listening to things in their headphones, whatever it is. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And they're talking to their friends. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Uh-huh. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And very few people are actually truly present there as I walk through this beautiful forest. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Uh-huh. Uh-huh. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And this is a spiritual practice, and I recommend that people, whenever they go out into nature, especially, practice being very alert OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): so that they can perceive the trees, the flowers, the plants, the sky OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): without too much mental interference.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's so interesting because when I used to run all the time, I'd have all those people who would run with their headphones and they'd say, "What are you listening to?" And even now working out, I like just being and feeling the, you know, my feet on the pavement and, you know, taking it all in. I like just sort of being with myself. And I find that the headphones and all that is a distraction for me. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. So that's a great practice. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's a good practice. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): But you can, even without leaving your home, you can practice even if you have a potted plants at home in your room. Look at the plant just for a few seconds, 10 seconds, 20 seconds, and just bring your attention to the sense perception and truly look without eventually saying anything about it. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. Well, Heather from Vancouver Island, Canada, is on Skype. Hello, Heather. HEATHER (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Hello, Oprah. I'm honored to be here speaking with you today. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): This isI think this is fun. Okay. Okay, go right ahead. HEATHER (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Mr. Tolle, I'd like to commend you on a spectacular book. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Oh. HEATHER (AUDIENCE MEMBER): I found of it thought-provoking, and questions arose for me. For example, when we get free of the ego, where does that energy go? OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Ooh, good question.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Mm-hmm. Good question, yes, thank you. The energy that was used up by the ego. Now, what is the ego basically consists of compulsive conditioned thought processes, so that we are not aware of. So we identify so closely with our stream of thinking that we don't even know that we are thinking. So all this energy is used up in continuous, to a large extent, useless thinking. Even psychologists have found out that 90even psychologists who were not interested in spiritual thingsthey looked at the nature of human thought, and they discovered that 98 percent or 99 percent of our thoughts are quite useless and repetitive. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): They're not really needed. So where does that energy go? That energy that then becomes freed from thinking, it become presence, which is a new dimensionwell, not entirely new because almost everybody has had glimpses of presence, but it is a dimension of consciousness that most people still don't know exists. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And really, this is the essence of the whole teaching. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And everybody's had glimpses of it. I'm sure you have too, Heather, and everybody whose listening to us. Everybody's had just that little moment where everything's okay, where you had just a moment of bliss, where there's nothing particularly going on that would cause you to feel that, but there is a sense of an awareness ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): that causes you to have, as you said, a glimpse of ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): something bigger than yourself. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. It can come accidentally. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Sometimes, it comes into people's lives accidentally, and, suddenly, you feel a deep sense of inner peace and aliveness.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And all rightness. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And all rightness. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And not because something in particular has happened. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Happened. Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So, it's there's no external cause for it. It's causeless joy, one could say. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's happened to you, Heather? Has that happened to you? HEATHER (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Occasionally. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, occasionally, yeah. And then you wonder, "How did that happen, so I can make that happen again?" ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. HEATHER (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It can also happen when you're engaged in very strenuous physical activity. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Uh-huh. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And so that requires all your attention, like climbing a mountain. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. Mm-hmm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So you need to bewhen you're climbing a wall, you need to be totally present every moment. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): If you lose presence and start thinking about what you're going to do when you get down from the mountain, you'll probably have an accident. So certain activities, very strenuous activities,
require absolute presence. And some people become actually addicted to dangerous activities because they feel much more alive in those moments. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. Cause you need to be fully present. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. The reason why they feel it's so much more alive is because they're thinking almost nothing at all. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because you have to be present ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): You're absolutely there. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): in order to climb a mountain or to do strenuous activities. Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Your attention is absolutely there. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): All right. All right, Heather, did that answer your question? HEATHER (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Yes, it did. Thank you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, thank you so much from Vancouver Island, Canada, Heather. Well, Heather introduces this whole idea of the illusory self that you talk about on page 27. You say, "The word 'I' embodies the greatest error and the deepest truth, depending upon how it is used." What do you mean by that? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Usually, when people say "I," they're referring to what I call "me and my story" OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): which is your personal history that you identify with as yourself. So everybody has a story, of course, because everybody has a past. Now, most people are completely identified with the story that is their successes, their failures OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right, right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): things that happened to them OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): things that they acquired. They see themselves as a victim. They see themselves as successful, whatever it is. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): There is a certain story that develops. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because when you ask me who am I, that's what I'm going to tell you, my story ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That's right. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): my successes, my failures, where I was born, what I did, what my mother did or didn't do. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's who we think we are. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That's right. Now, what I'm saying is, and what all spiritual teachings point to is that that, that ultimately is not who you are in your essence. It is no more than a collection of memories, and, of course, memories are thoughts. It is no more than a bundle of thoughts that you identify with and that you believe to be who you are. So that becomes an entity almost, a mind-made entity, a selfa sense of self OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): like a phantom entity that lives with you that you then refer to as "myself." So you have me and myself. For example, in Greek mythology, we have the interesting story of Narcissus. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Narcissus was a gentleman who livedthis how the story goes. Mythology, of course, always embodies some truths that goes beyond the personal. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Narcissus happened to be walking somewhere, and he sawsuddenly, he looked down, and he saw his own image in a pool of water. At a time, of course, when they didn't have mirrors at the time, so it was a surprise for him to see himself reflected in a pool of water. And the story goes that he fell in love with himself. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): My view is thatactually, a better translation isof the story is that he became obsessed with himself. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And that, to me, signals the beginning of the human ego. It is to have a mental image in your head, ultimately, not out there, that's just the story. A mental image in your head ofthat you regard as yourself. And that mental image is the mind-made me that consists of memories, things that happened to you, thingsfailures and successes. Opinions, all kinds of things, I describe them in the book, together make up this "I." OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, if I'm not the memories and I'm not the things that happened to me and I'm not my story, then who am I? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That's the question. And, in fact, "who am I?" is actually a question that in some spiritual, eastern spiritual teachings is used as a kind of mantra or pointer that you repeat to yourself in a meditation setting. So you sit down, and you ask yourself, "Who am I?" And you're not supposed to answer that question. You leave the blank after the question. In that blank, in that empty space, if it works, if this practice works as it should, you suddenly get a sense of your own presence OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): that has nothing to do with your thought processes. Your own sense of conscious presence, your being-ness, your presence, which part of which is actually also your physical presence, but it's a sense of aliveness. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Every cell of the body becomes part of that sense of presence and aliveness. So, as we state here, we can perhaps see if we can get a little glimpse of that. A glimpse of our own presence, which, again, is nothing to do with thinking. It is deeper than thinking.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): How do we get a glimpse of it sitting here? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): We get a glimpse of it. I recommend thatsee if you can feel the inner aliveness in your body as you sit here. Is there any sense in which you can feel that there is an aliveness in every cell of the body? Now, if people OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But isn't my mind thinking that? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Your mind may be thinking, "Yes, of course, I'm alive." OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Like in the book you say, "feel the aliveness in your hands." Okay. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): When I go to feel the aliveness in my hand, I can't feel the aliveness in my hand unless I had a mind in which to feel that. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No. So if you close your eyes and you hold out your hand like this OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes, yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): and then youthe question OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You feel thisthe vibrating sensation in your hand. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. You ask yourselffor example, I always have this exercise with people who have no idea what I'm talking about when I talk about inner body. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. Well, that would be a lot of people listening right now. Go ahead. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So you hold out your hand OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): and close your eyes and then ask yourself, "How, without touching anything and without moving
my hand, how can I know whether my hand is still here? How can I know that?" Now, your mind might say, "Of course, I know it because I remember seeing it a few seconds ago." OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. And I feel it right here. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That said, you need toyou feel the inside is alive. A subtle sense of warmth or tingling is a subtle sense of aliveness. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right, right. Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That is the beginning of getting in touch with your inner body, the energy field. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But I need my brain to do that, though. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): You need your conscious attention to do that OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): but not thinking. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Not thinking. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No. That's the difference. You need attention, which is consciousness. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, you need consciousness to feel it, but the consciousness then moves from where it usually is, just as it did when we started today with becoming aware of our breathing. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Our breathing. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Now, the consciousness moves into the hand. And if you can feel your hand, if you can feel one hand, you can also feel the other hand. If you can feel both hands at the same time, you can perhaps also feel your both arms. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And if you can feel the arms, perhaps you can also feel your feet. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. And as I begin to feel that, and everybody who's with us around the world feels that, then what? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): This means, the inner body, we also could call this is, what we are doing is we are practicing embodiment. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): This keeps you in the present moment. It keeps you present. It keeps you out of your thought processes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Out of your thought processes, thinking about what I need to do tomorrow. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And it takes you out of ego because the ego lives in your thought processes, consists of thought processes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So the moment you enter the inner aliveness of the body, you sensethere is a sense of self that is deeper than thinking. You are that aliveness that you feel. You are that alive presence. And soand this applies whether your past or your personal history is a happy one or an unhappy one. For most people, it's a very mixed story. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): But no personal history's entirely happy. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): With very few examples. And then you just have to wait a little while until it becomes unhappy again. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Even the people who say, "I had a great childhood."
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yeah. No. Personal histories are all very problematic and it's notand people think, "Oh, it's only me." It's everybody. Everybody's personal history OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Cause that's what being a human is. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So to be able to step out and find a dimension that has nothing to do with your past and your history or whether you are a miserable failure in the eyes of the world or your thought processes or a greaterit has nothing to do with that. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I love it when you say, "What you usually refer to when you say 'I'" I'm on page 28"is not who you are. A monstrous act of reductionism" ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): which is a great way of putting it. "The infinite depth of who you are is confused with a sound produced by the vocal chords of the thought of 'I' in your mind and whatever the 'I' has identified with. So what do the usual 'I' and the related 'me,' 'my,' or 'mine' refer to?" You talk about when a young child first learns to identify "my" toy. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. That's the beginning of the ego, when the child starts to identify with an external object. And you can see when the toy is taken away from a child after this identification has happened, after it wasthe child thought of it as "my toy," there's an enormous amount of pain in the child. The child will start screaming and saying, "It's mine, it's mine." So the toy has been taken away. Why is it so painful for the child? Because it's the beginning of the ego. The ego has lost something that it had identified with. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It's a misperception of who one is. And so it's very painful. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): The child thinks that the toy has something to do with them. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Who they are. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's who they are.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That's the identification. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And that's why kids go into spasms ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): over a toy, and you're going, "It's just a toy." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And two days later, they lose interest in it. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And so that's the beginning of it. And then OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And it's because they think the toy is them or it's a part of them ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): They think it's OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): it's a part of them? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It adds something to their sense of self OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): of who they are. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And when you take it away, they think it is. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Then they'd beit's like losing a limb OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): because it was became so much part of who they thought they were. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. In the child's mind, "That's a part of me."
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And then we grow up ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And, of course, the process continues. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): When we grow up, our toys just get bigger. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): They get bigger. And OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): We cry because I lost my ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Lost external possessions. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): But, of course, possessions is an important part of all the things that people identify with that become part of their identity. But there are many other things apart from possessions. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): For example, social position, how others see you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Cause you say other things the "I" identifies with is "nationality, race, religion, profession mother, father, husband, wife, and so on." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Roles they play. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Roles they play. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Opinions they hold. You can see, for example, when OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But these are roles. They are actual roles, you know? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): People are mothers and fathers and ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): you know? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And now, it's important, of course, to fulfill the functions that you have in this world and your mother and father are important functions (unintelligible). OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. And your nationality and your race, your religion. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That'sits fine. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You identify with those things. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It's fine to honor all these things. But if that's all you have, then you are lost in a surface reality that you always turns intobecomes painful and turns into conflict. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): You can see, for example, when people are discussing, and if somebody questions somebody's opinion, very often, immediately they become defensive. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Sometimes even aggressive or start shouting. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And because opinions, again, is another thing that OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because "my" beliefs. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): "Mine." That they identify with a thought they hold. A mental position. And then anybody who questions that mental position, immediately becomes your enemy because you believe you're being attacked. You're not being attacked, but the image that you have of yourself, the opinion is part of that. The ego believes it's being attacked.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So you're saying that whenever you can see that that's what you're thinking, when you can see the illusion of that, the moment you can see the illusion of it: "These are thoughts in my head. This is something Ive told myself I believe. This is something Ive told myself that I identify with." That when you can see that, the seer or the observer is who you really are. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And the seer or observer is the presence of the awareness. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So you're saying there's two of us at all times. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. There is the formless awareness and there is the form that a thought becomesthought is an energy formation. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And so you've just mentioned the essence is to be there as the awareness when it happens. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): All right, I'm going to go to Victoria. Victoria lives in Maui, joins us via Skype. Victoria, hello. VICTORIA (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Aloha. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Aloha. Can't wait to get there. VICTORIA (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Thank you, Oprah and Mr. Tolle, for this awesome opportunity. I was diagnosed over 10 years ago with systemic lupus and RA. And I've been really active person. But two years ago, I gave up my business. My health deteriorated. And I got an aha! moment in this book on page 51. I never realized that I had unconsciously clinged to my illnessand I'm taking this the out of the book cause I put it to myself because it had actually become the most important part of who I perceived myself to be. How can I undo this identity? And how can I stay focused when I'm in excruciating pain from the illness to have the peace constantly and not just fleeing moments? OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's real. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's real.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Now, the most important thing has already happened, which is you have become aware that up to now, you had been identified with the idea of "I am sufferer of such and such an illness." So the illness had become thought forms in your head, and you had identified with these thought forms and took them to be who you are. And now, the most important thing, your question is still valid, but realize that the most important thing has already happened, which is the awareness has arisen. So you havethere's a space now between yourself and your thought processes and the image of yourself as a sick person. Now, another thing, of course, in addition you can do is, for example, no longer talk about your illness to other people except when you visit your doctor. That doesn'tthen otherwise, the more you talk about it to your friends, acquaintances, family members, the more you keep that process going. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Empower it. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): She empowers the disease. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That's right. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So if you can't just can take the decision now that from now on, "I'm not going to talk about it. And if people ask me about my illness"which they're going to do because they're used, perhaps used to talking about ityou say, "Well, it'sI'm doing all I can to find healing in this. And I'm making good progress." Go as far as that and don't encourage people to ask you questions and just say that's how it is. No more mentioning my illness. So you begin on the external level, not to talk about it anymore except when, of course, when you need to talk to doctors. And that will have also certain influence on your thought processes. And then you can gradually also refrain from thinking of yourself as a sick person, and perhaps give less thought to your illness and focus attention more on well-being. Now, you may ask, "Well, but if I don't feel good, if I feel it, how can I give attention to well-being?" You can still do that. One way is to see well-being around you in nature because nature is just an embodiment of well-being. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And you have a lot of opportunity to do that in Maui. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): You're in the best place. And also there's well-being even if certain parts of your body feel unwell or painful. And again, we are coming back to thesensing the inner body. There are always parts of your body where you can still find well-being, in your hands, your arms, wherever. Take some attention into the body and see, "Where can I most strongly feel, get a sense of well-being in the body?" And then take your attention there. So you choose to direct attention to well-being rather than dwelling on the idea of illness. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That does not mean the pain is going to go away, cause she said she has physical pain. NEW EARTH"): The pain may still be there. That'sbut not as far as the pain is concerned, pain unfortunately requires surrender. You need to see if the pain is there, so that you do not generate an additional level of psychological pain, which complains about being in physical pain. Because if the mind stops to complain about being in physical pain OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): You have two levels of pain. You have psychological pain and physical pain. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Got it. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Leave physical painwith physical pain, you justright now, this is how it is. It's there. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Don't resist it? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Don't resist it. Do what you can as far as treatment goes, of course. But don't resist it, don't create psychological pain on top of the physical pain. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Are you following that, Victoria? VICTORIA (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Got it, yeah. Excellent. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Got it. Got it. Makes sense to you? VICTORIA (AUDIENCE MEMBER): You know, it really does. It does, yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. VICTORIA (AUDIENCE MEMBER): And I do have a little garden in the back that I go out to a lot.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, because there is well-being all around you and you can almostone could say you absorb it fromif you don'tif you canthey contemplate all these plans and intense aliveness around you, contemplate that. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, e-mail us in the weeks to come ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): and let us know how this works for you, Victoria. VICTORIA (AUDIENCE MEMBER): I will. I will, Oprah. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you so much. Victoria from Maui. VICTORIA (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Thank you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): We have Ann from Ireland on the phone with a question. Ann, hello. ANN (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Hi, Oprah. How are you? OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Hi. Middle of the night there? ANN (AUDIENCE MEMBER): It's 1:30 in the morning. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay, thank you. ANN (AUDIENCE MEMBER): And hi, Eckhart. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Hello. ANN (AUDIENCE MEMBER): This book has been so inspirational. I have three young children 5, 7 and 9 years old. And motherhood is one of the things that's motivated me to find ways to be happier with myself. Cause it's so evident that children are influenced by what they experience with you rather than what you actually tell them. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. ANN (AUDIENCE MEMBER): And I see that the stress of my life has even had an impact on their health. And I found the ideas in A New Earth helpful in this way because I'm practicing being present with them and really enjoying my time with them. Not thinking about work and thinking about the things I should be doing around the house, but just spending time with them and being with them. And I'm seeing that the individuals that they really are and who I am. Are there other ways to introduce these ideas to small children like that?
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yeah, that's a very good question. Though you've already mentioned the most important thing is your own state of consciousness at home because the children absorb from you, your predominant state of consciousness. And if you can be present with children at home, present means to give them full attention. When you are present, you don't want anything from them. You just give them attention, which could be listening. It could be watching them as they play. Now, many parents don't do that. They give them attention, but it's always wanting something. They say, "Do this, don't do that. Now, this needs to get done." So that isI call that form-based attention. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That has its place, of course. Of course, the children need to brush their teeth and need to tidy up their room. This is fine. It has its place. But more is needed. Your child wants to be acknowledged in his or her being. So it's vital to give the child conscious attention at home. Give the child space to be. Doesn't need to be long, just a few minutes every day. Be there, be present for the child. That's vital. Another thing that is important is come to a stage in a young child's life when they start asking, they wantthe mind wants to absorb concept, so they start asking what things are called. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): "What's this, Mum? What's that, what's that?" OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Of course, yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And so at that point, usually, of course, you have to tell them, "This is a tree or this is that and that's that." OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. Rabbit. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Bird. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And the important thing is so that the child does not at that stage immediately lose him or herself in concepts and then believe that the moment they know that this is a bird, the danger is the moment you know that it is a bird, you're no longer really looking at the bird. You have the concept of bird in your head and then you just briefly glance at a bird, and immediately the concept "bird" comes into your mind, and so you become deadened to the aliveness that is there in the bird. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And that is being the unfortunately the fate of all of us growing up. We became lost in a world of conceptualization. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Correct. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And so thatthis doesn't happen to the young child. Of course, you have to tell the child what it is called. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): But I would suggest, for example, not to say to the child, "This is an oak tree." Say, "This is called an oak tree" because it's not an oak tree. The "oak tree" is just a word. When we lose ourselves in concept, we mistake a word for the thing. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): For the thing, got it. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): When I say, "This is an oak tree," it's not an oak tree. The "oak tree" is just a word. So I lose my relationship with the oak tree when I believe now I know what it is. And every time for the rest of my life OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And when you believe you know what it is, it loses its magic, its essence. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It loses themagic is a good word. The world loses its miraculous quality OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): and its aliveness. So after you've given the child the concept, encourage the child to continue to
experience the tree, encourage the child to touch the bark of the tree and to look at the leaves. See how the sunshinehow the sun shines through the leaves of the tree. Encourage the child to continuously still experience the reality of the tree rather than dismiss it for the concept. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You got that, Ann? You got that? ANN (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Yeah, I can see that'd be very helpful. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, that would be helpful. Thank you very much. Let's move on to content and structure of the ego, on page 34, everyone, if you're following tonight's class as we move through Chapter 2. It's very exciting when you really get these concepts of the ego. You say that there's "the egoic mind is completely conditioned by the past. Its conditioning is twofold: It consists of content and structure." What do you mean by that? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Content is whatever it is that you identify with and then you take to be yourself. So that varies, depends on what culture you live in. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It depends on your up bringing. It depends on your personal circumstances. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And content is different for everybody. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It differs for everybody, although there are certain similarities in the same cultural field like there are certain similarities in America or in France or whatever country you live in. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): There are certain similarities of things that pertain to their particular nationality that people identify with. Nevertheless, from person to person, yes, it differs. The content differs. One person may identify with very strongly held religious beliefs and believe that everybody else is evil who does not hold these religious beliefs. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And it's a very rigid ego. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Or another person identifies very strongly with the company they work for. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And so and they feelI've heard stories in Japan where people, when they are dismissed from their job, they committed suicide. They were so identified with their company that when they lost their job, which until recently was very rare apparently in Japan. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): You would keep your job for the rest of your life, so it became part of who you thought you were. That led toif they didn't commit suicide, they suffered dreadfully because their identity got taken away. All that, of course, is (unintelligible) identity, it's not who you truly are. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It's part of the ego. And all that is content. The structure of the ego basically consists of identification. The ego seeks something or things to identify with. What it is doesn't really matter. For one personone person identifies him or herself with a very positive-looking ego. Meaning, "I'm the greatest thing that ever lived." OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It might be a delusion, or is. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): But it'sor another person might identify with a very negative ego image like, "I'm the most retched person that has ever lived. Life has treated me so unfairly, I've suffered so much more than you. Let me tell you about it." OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Many egos are like that, just as strong as egos who think they are the greatest. So the ego can be predominantly negative; it can be predominantly positive. But in either case, it's ego.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Capsulize for us whatyou know, the whole chapter is about, the current state of humanity being the ego. But can you put in a capsule what it is, the ego? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): The ego is the false sense of self based on mental concepts. So that's OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And our identification with form. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Identification with form. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Things. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): These areyes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But why do we have it, though? Why do we have an ego? We're all human. We all have one, right? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): We all have one. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You say yourslast week, you said yours died. Does that mean you don't have one? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You said yours died in that moment where you wanted to kill yourself. "I am so miserable, I can live with myself no longer." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You said in that moment, your ego died. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Never came back? It died forever? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. When we say that it simply meansit sounds like some great achievement, well, it's not.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): All it means is I'm no longer identified with my thought processes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): I know when thoughts happen, I know they are just thought. I don't look for myself in some opinions that I hold of myself. Some mental concept, including the concept that I am free of ego, I don't think in those terms. Because if I have this mental concept, I am free of ego, that would be ego again. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That would be ego again. Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And this can happen very easily. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So ego is any identification with form. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because what we really are is the awareness that we are identified with form. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And the more you can become aware that you are identified with things, you create a space that separates you from the thing. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, because the question is, when you're aware that you identify it, who is it that is aware? What isit's a new dimension of consciousness that comes from a deeper level of yourself. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But how do we live in the world without things? We have to have things. We have to live in a house, have transportation. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Nothing wrong with things. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Have clothes. We have to be clothed. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Nothing wrong with things, nothing wrong with thoughts.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Nothing wrong with opinions. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): But the moment you identify with opinions OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Uh-huh. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): then you need to defend them. They become part of your pseudo image. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): There's nothing wrong with possessing things. But when you become identified, then, first of all, if you lose something, immediately you will suffer. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I love when you say, "The people in the advertising industry know very well that in order to sell things, that people don't really need"I'm on page 35, everybody"they must convince them that those things will add something to how they see themselves or are seen by others; in other words, add something to their sense of self. They do this, for example, by telling you you will stand out from the crowd by using this product and so by implication be more fully yourself." You say, "In so many cases you are not buying a product but an 'identity enhancer.'" ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I thought that was so fantastic. "Designer labels are primarily collective identities that you buy into. They are expensive and therefore 'exclusive.' If everybody could buy them, they would lose their psychological value and all you would be left with would be their material value, which likely amounts to a fraction of what you paid." Interesting, because I mean, I've been in situationswe even see it in the magazines now, especially for the Oscars or Emmy's or whatever, the women are lined in their gowns. There used to be a time when I first went on the red carpet to the Oscars, people were interested in the movie you were doing. Now, they wanteverybody asks, the paparazzi shouts, "What are you wearing, who are you wearing? Who did your gown? Where are the jewels from? Where's?" It's all about the designer label and who got to wear what. And so our whole society, to an extent, is based on this.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): What do you have? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And is it exclusive? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. You can seeI suggest sometimes to lookgo through a magazine OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): or watch the TV commercials. From that point of view, to see how often you are actually OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Identified. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): hold an identity rather than the emphasis on the identity rather than the product. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): The identity enhancers. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. Let's see some of the questions you're sending us now on email. I have Deborah in Mandeville, Louisianaokaywho says, "I'm having difficulty transitioning from the beauty of my youth to living with a face and body that has aged. How do we let go of that kind of possession or obsession, especially as a woman in a society obsessed with youth and beauty?" Fantastic question, Deborah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Fantastic question. Same thing as being attached to the ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): identity enhancers of clothes and things and cars and having, having, having, having. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. That's a hardthat's harder though.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It is hard. It's particularly hard for people who are good-looking. That was never my problem, fortunately. But I had other problems. I had a huge mind that says, "I'm the greatest intellectual." That was my identification, and I suffered more and more, and finally I had to let go. But so you identify with whatever is the most obvious in your lives. If you have good looks, then you are most likely to identify with that, probably even more so for a woman than a man. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And so and therefore OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Particularly in our society. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And so for quite a few years, it works quite well, but then at some point, you realize that the body does get old. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And time, the monster time, does something to the body. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, yeah. I always thought this too. I don't know, Deborah in Mandeville, but I always thought pretty women would have a really hard time because as you grow up and that is your identity and everybody says how beautiful you are and, "You're a pretty little girl, and you're great and beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful." When that starts to fade, then who are you? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And this is why it's important, even at an early age when you still feel very comfortable with your external appearance, to already see if you can bring a deeper dimension into your lives so that you don't live the rest of your life trapped in this surface dimension when you equate who you are with your external appearance, which is not going to last.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, she says I'm having difficulty transitioning ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "from the beauty of my youth to living with a face and body that has aged." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. So the question then perhaps is, so what to do now? OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. How do we let go of that kind of obsession? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So first of all, again, the arising awareness is important, that you had been, and to some extent perhaps still are, identified with appearance. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And then comes in a little thing that we could call acceptance. Acceptance when you look in the mirror in the morning, you realize, yes, one can see wrinkles here and there. The skin is not quite as vibrant as it used to be. You can see it very clearly. And so some of these people who have been identified, they regard that as a personal problem. They see it as if life had dealt them some blow, that it's not personal. It's the destiny of every human being to grow old and to unless they die prematurelyit's the destiny of every human being to experience the gradual decline of the physical form. So what you're experiencing is the destiny of all humans, all humans that have ever lived on the planet and ever will live on the planet. So I suggest first of all to practice a little bit of acceptance. They say that, "It's not my personal problem, it's the destiny of humanity, just my share." And also, that comes with any kind of acceptance, comes a little spaciousness because here, you have the condition that OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, it leaves a space between resisting it. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Wanting it to be different. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, so you have the condition, which means I'm getting old or the body is getting old. And then you
accept that this is what's happening. With that acceptance comes a little bit of space around the condition, a little bit of peace around the condition. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And then a very helpful thing OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That is instead of saying, "I hate my wrinkles" ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): I hate yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So it's and you canit's the same process when you look at a flower. You have a flower for a few days, and the same thing happening to your body happens to the flower after a few days. It wilts. Or put an apple there and see what the apple looks like three weeks later. It just happens more quickly, but it's the destiny of all form to eventually dissolve. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So Deborah needs to come to some acceptance of that. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Acceptance, and see that it's the destiny of all life forms to go through that process. In addition, also, especially for people who have been identified with the external body, because it's beenit was beautiful for many years, to take attention even when they're still young to what we've been doing here. Take attention into the inner body, the inner aliveness of the body. Because that actually does not grow old because he can feel the aliveness when you're 80 the same way you can feel the inner aliveness when you're 20. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So instead of always stopping with the external appearance, spend time sensing the inner body rather than always staying with the external. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): When you shared this story in the book, I forgot which page that was, the ring storyoh, the lost ring on page 38. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And you told the story of the woman who hadwas deteriorating and accused her maid of stealing the ring. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And then you asked her the question ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. I asked, "Do you feel diminished in who you are now that you've lost the ring? Do you actually feel diminished in your sense of self?" And at first she said, "Yes, of course I do." And then she stopped forand then she started going within. And I asked, "Whatyour sense of self, take your attention, what does it mean, yourto feel yourself?" And eventually, she was able to go deeper within and feel her sense of presence. It had nothing to do with the ring. In fact ,she felt it more strongly because the identification with the external object had gone. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. And I brought that up, that story up because you say that as sheher body began to fade ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): that her inner light became more luminous. That she became ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, almost like light shining through. She becameI've experienced that several times with people that I have known who got close to death or that had an illness, they knew they were going to die. And they lived in a state of acceptance. They accepted every moment. And those people not only became very peaceful inside because they had relinquished all identification with the external form. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): All right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And so and then something else that was deeper than the form that all religions rarely point to that, that in every human being, there is a dimension that we could call the eternal or the sacred. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): The formless. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): The formless. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Let's go to our Chicago study groups watching our webcast at Borders on Michigan Avenue. Hi, everybody. GROUP (AUDIENCE): Hi. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I hear Sharon has a question. Sharon?
SHARON (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Hi, Oprah. Hello, Mr. Tolle. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Hello. SHARON (AUDIENCE MEMBER): I'm so excited to talk to you. I have a question. I have close relationships to people who suffer from depression. And in talking with them and trying to be useful to my friends when they talk to me about a bout of depression or what have you, I find that there's an inwardness and a strong identity that they have as people who suffer from depression. And I wonder, what role does the ego play in depression, and to what extent is it helpful to sort of point them toward this definition of the ego, the content identity and the structural identity? I mean, or is it unfair for me to feel that that should be useful, given that, you know, there seems to be a strong identification with themselves as people who suffer from depression. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Depressed people? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. That, again, brings us back to an earlier question where the conditionwhether the condition is a physical condition that one suffers from or whether it is a psychological condition that one suffers from. There is the tendency to identify oneself with the illness or with thewhatever it is. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. "I'm a depressed person." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And then OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "And I'm depressed because I'm identifying with my whole story." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "And my story's sad." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And that would make me depressed. Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's what people are saying. Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. If you're very strongly identified with my sad story, which for many people, yes, the story is sad. I had a sad story for many years until I let go of it.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And you were in depression. You were depressed. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): I was depressed, yes. And until one night, I woke up, and I realized that this unhappy self is not who I am. I could sense the I am-ness that came from a much deeper level than me and my story and my unhappy self. And I describe that as the self that I could no longer live with. I asked myself, "What is that self? Who am I? Am I that self?" No, I am I. I am consciousness. I am presence. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I am. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): I am. So the question, of course, is what do you tell your friends? Because it's not easy to tell a person that you are identified with an ego image, and very likely, you will get resistance. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Correct. They'll say, "What is wrong with you?" SHARON (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Yup. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. They'll go, "What is your problem?" SHARON (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): You know, I would suggest doing it in a more subtle way, and that is, perhaps, point out the possibility of becoming aware of one's thought processes, of thoughts that arise instead of being totally identified with the thoughts. Perhaps you can tell your friend what you've been doing for yourself. You can tell that it's not threatening to the ego. If you tell something that you have been doing, you've been observing your own thoughts, that you are more detached now from your thoughts than you were before, and you realize that thoughts are only thoughts. They are not who you are. And if you can tell them about yourself, that could help. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): When they OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But many times, if you are depressed, I think you're so attached to the story. The story works for you, you know, the idea of ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): being a depressed person ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): works for you. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. So it's good. Sometimes depression comes in waves for some people, so you go through periods. And then there are good time when you come out of it, and that is a good time because then you are more aware than when you're down in the depression. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): This brings us to something you were saying at the end of last week's session, though. As you're trying to share this information, everybody, with your friends, Eckhart said at the end of last week's class that the most you can do is ask yourself, are you ready to awaken? Are you ready to be more present, more alive for yourself? Because you really cannot bring other people along unless ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): they are also ready. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. But sometimes you bring other people along simply because you embody a different state of consciousness even while you sit with them. They may be telling you their sad story, but you don't buy into the sad story nor do you question the sad story. You're just there as a spacious, conscious presence. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Not resistant, just conscious presence. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): All right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And sometimes, that transmits itself, and suddenly, the person wakes up for a moment. I had that experience. I believe I describe itI don't remember whether it's in this book or in The Power of Nowthere was aI had a neighbor many years ago who always was close to a nervous breakdown. Whenever I met her, she would come with extremely complicated stories of what other people were doing to her and how sheand she always wanted something from me, to join her in her struggle against other people.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): One night, she was ringing my bell at 10:30 or 11:30 at night. And through the intercom I saidshe said, "Can I come up there? I have something very important to talk about." So she came up in great distress and said something about she hadn't paid the service charge, theand so on, and we had to fight them and so on. And I found myself going into a state of alert presence, allowing her to speak, no thinking, just allowing her to say what she had to say, feeling quite peaceful. And, suddenly, she stopped talking and she looked around. And she had brought all these papers to look at all over the floor. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, to verify her position. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Her story. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And so, suddenly, she looked around and said, "This isn't important at all, is it?" And I said, "No." She said, "Thank you," and she got her papers and walked out. And the next morning, I saw her, she came to me in the street. She said, "What did you do to me last night? Last night was the first night that I slept well in years and years." The first night after this happened OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): What did you do to her? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Now the thing is, I did nothing. I was just there, present for her. So there was no doing. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And not buying into the story. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Not buying into the story. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Not empowering the story. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And not feeding her thought processes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Not even ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And not evennot resisting their thought processes either. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you, Sharon. Thanks, everybody at Borders. SHARON (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Thank you.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Thank you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you, Borders. SHARON (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Thank you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): We have Kathy from Beijing, China, on the phone with a question. Hello, Kathy from Beijing. KATHY (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Hi, Oprah and Eckhart. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Hello. KATHY (AUDIENCE MEMBER): I just want to say this is huge that we can have this one conversation around the world. I'm a girl from Duluth, Minnesota, living in Beijing, China, and talking to Oprah in Chicago and Eckhart. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I think that's fun. KATHY (AUDIENCE MEMBER): My question OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, go ahead. KATHY (AUDIENCE MEMBER): My question is, I lost 30 pounds in the last year and, for me, it has been spiritual work. It's not just on-the-surface weight loss. And now my friends are asking me about it and how I did it, and I'm wondering how to explain that it is this whole spiritual process. It's not just what you eat and how you exercise, but for me, it's been lifechanging, and they look at me like I'm mentally ill when I try to explain all of that. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): A friend of mine and I were talking about this the other day, about allowing yourself to be fed from the energy that's already there inside your body. I know what you're talking about. Checking in. KATHY (AUDIENCE MEMBER): I know you know. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Uh-huh. Yeah. KATHY (AUDIENCE MEMBER): I know you know. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, checking in, being conscious, aware of what you are feeding yourself and aware of how you are in touch with your body to give your body just what your body needs, and so then it becomes, not about the diet and the food and thehow many reps you did, but about being aware.
KATHY (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Right. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. KATHY (AUDIENCE MEMBER): But most of the world is focused on how it's just the surface, what you eat. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, it's being in touch with the body helps greatly because the body knows what it needs. Really, the overeating happens because it's part of the ego OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Unconsciousness. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): The unconsciousness OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Unconsciousness, yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): which seeks a substitute for the sense of aliveness. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, I can say that for sure. And you know that too, right, Kathy? KATHY (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Yeah, now I know too. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. Yeah. Well, now you know how to explain it to all your friends. KATHY (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Thank you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's so cool talking to you from Beijing. What time is it there? KATHY (AUDIENCE MEMBER): It's 9 in the morning, and I am able to watch it successfully this week. I was like others and didn't get it last week. But OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Oh, we're still up and out. That's great. I know. I have alllisten, I have the Skype people and the Limelight people and the Move people and the Oprah.com people, and I just walked through the hall as we started this and I said to all of them, "May the force be with you." And his is mythis is what I'm doing. Hello! [Crosses fingers.] KATHY (AUDIENCE MEMBER): You can make things happen.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay, thank you so much. KATHY (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Thanks. Okay, bye. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you so much. I want to go back to the identification with things because that is an issue for so many people, "the unchecked striving for more, for endless growth," you say, "is a dysfunction and a disease," on page 37, like the cancer cell "whose only goal is to multiply itself, unaware that it's bringing about its own destruction by destroying the organism of which it is a part." I heard we had a shopaholic on Skype. I saw that earlier. Did we bring her back? Yeah, isn't that ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay, we have Joyce from Minnesota who is Skyping us. Joyce, what is your question? I thought this applied to you. JOYCE (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Yeah, yeah, it does. And unfortunately, it applies to my son as well. Last week, he came home from kindergarten and I said, "I'm so happy to see you, and I'm in such a good mood." And he said, "Oh, good, does that mean we get to go shopping?" And I thought, "It's rubbing off on him!" So what my question is, is how do I reverse that process in him? OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Oh, well, first of all, let me ask you this: You're reading the book, correct? JOYCE (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. So you've gotten through Chapter 2 already? JOYCE (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, so when you read that, did you see yourself in the pages? JOYCE (AUDIENCE MEMBER): I did. The onethe aha! for me was in seeing of who you are, not theyour real self merges through, something along those lines. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): My favorite quote inone of my favorite quotes in this chapter is "when you can no longer feel the life that you are" JOYCE (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "you are likely to try to fill up your life with things." JOYCE (AUDIENCE MEMBER): With things, yes. Yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Would that be what you're trying to do? JOYCE (AUDIENCE MEMBER): That was me. I'vesince I started reading this book, I've gotten so much better. I'm not searching for that thing anymore. I think I was trying to find my identity in things, and since I have stopped that and I really don't have any interest in that anymore, I have discovered so much more about myself. I'm artistic, and I'm doing sculptures and just things I never did before, so it's working out great. I just want to know how to enforce that in my son as well since he's only 5. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Oh, well, now the most important change has already happened in you. So you've become aware of the old pattern. You've gone beyond it, and it's inevitable that now this will, even if you don't say anything, it will transmit itself to your son also when after a while, your son sees thatthe importance that you give to acquiring things has diminished, then he also will reflect that. That is how it works with young children. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It will take some time. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because he since he's been a baby JOYCE (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Right. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): you've been a shopaholic, that's the way you described yourself to our producers. JOYCE (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And so that's what he is seeing. That's what he's taken in. That's what he identifies ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): with as pleasure. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And when you say, "I'm in a good mood and things are going well. " "Let's go shopping, Mommy." JOYCE (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Right.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): because that's what Mommy's always done. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Another thing that JOYCE (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): perhaps you could do is point out things to him that are of intrinsic value that you cannot buy, so for example, the natural world to JOYCE (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Whatever you see out in nature is of infinite intrinsic value and you can't buy it. Don't pick flowers, for example. Don't encourage him to pick because that's the acquisition instinct, the instinct to, "Oh, I want that for myself." Why not allow the flower to be there and enjoy it for a few seconds as you look at it? So point out things and engage in activities perhaps that involve nature and see that is of greater value than anything that you see in the shopping mall. And it doesn't mean that you don't buy anything anymore. Occasionally, you may come across something that looks truly beautiful, that speaks to you. And you may acquire it, but it's no longer compulsive. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You say we need to "honor the world of things, not despise it." But we cannot honor things if we try to find ourselves through them. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And how do we honor them? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): You honor them by giving them attention. I sometimesI have a few possessions that I love, and sometimes I just hold them, look at them, they're beautiful to look at. If theyif somebody stole them, itthat's fine. If somebody wants them more than I, it's fine, you let go. There's no identification, but there be enjoyment in things. You can enjoy a beautifulyou the might come across a beautiful picture, and you buy it. You might come across a beautiful fabric, whatever it may be, you see beauty there, and sometimes it'll be enough to acknowledge beauty in a shop window and say, "Oh, isn't that beautiful. Of course, I don't need it." And you walk on, and you canand that's OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's a thought. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): There's a lot of
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's a thought I never had. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): There's a lot of freedom in that. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "That's beautiful, let's leave it there. I can just admire its beauty." What about that, Joyce? "It's beautiful. Let's leave it in the window." JOYCE (AUDIENCE MEMBER): That works for me. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It's the same as the flower. You don't need to pick it. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's a thought. Yeah. JOYCE (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Yeah, that's a good one. I like that. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Enjoying, you can walk aroundoccasionally, I don't do it anyone, but I sometimes would enjoy walking around a few stores. When I lived in London, I would sometimes walk down Regent Street, all these beautiful stores. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Window shop. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Window shopping. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Look in, "Oh, how nice. Would I want to buy it? Even if I" OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's if you can just accept that it's beautiful and let it be. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It's beautiful, and then let it. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you, Joyce. Thank you, Joyce, so much. JOYCE (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Thank you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): We have from India. I don't know the name of this country, Priyanka.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Sri Lanka. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): No. The person's name is Priyanka from Mumbai, India. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Oh. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "When we try to change our bad habits for good, then aren't we trying to resist rather than accept ourselves? When we try to change our bad habits for good, aren't we trying to resist rather than accept ourselves?" ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. The it's not that you change your bad habits, the bad habits drop away when you bring awareness to them. So it's not me trying to change something inside me, but when you bring awareness to old, conditioned forms of behavior or thinking, when you bring awareness to it, those old, conditioned forms of behavior or thinking, after a while, drop away by themselves. So it's not me trying to bring about a change, it's the arising awareness, and then change happens. The lady we just talked to, she read the chapter on shopping, and that immediately brought her to this point of awareness. And with the awareness, the compulsion immediately lessened. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Eased, eased, eased. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Eased. Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You talk about the illusion of ownership on page 42. You say, "The ego tends to equate having with Being and lives through comparison." And you used a quote from the Bible that Jesus said. "'Blessed are the poor in spirit,' Jesus said, 'for theirs will be the kingdom of heaven.' What does poor in spirit mean? No inner baggage, no identifications." I never knew that's what "poor in spirit" means. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yeah, yeah. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): How did you come to that interpretation of what "poor in spirit" means? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): There was a time, after I went through this inner shift, this must be in three years later, I was visiting my mother and she had the New Testament on her shelf. I picked it up, and I started reading. I could suddenly see the truth that was hiding there, and that in many cases, the conventional interpretation was the superficial one of what Jesus had said. And that was one of the things that I immediately saw when you said "poor in spirit," I realized it had to do with not carrying stuff inside so that your spirit is very light, it has no burden.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Ah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And so there are many things, at that time, I read and I suddenly saw, "Oh, he was talking about awakening and about living in that free state of consciousness." It's wonderful, suddenly to be able to read it and suddenly it all makes sense, which before hadn't made sense. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You also talk about "renunciation of possessions will not automatically free you of the ego," that "there are people who have renounced all possessions but have bigger ego that some millionaires." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So if you take away one kind of identification, the ego will quickly find another. For instance, I'm a more spiritual person than you are. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You see this all the time. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So, it's identification OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): People use their religion to say "I'm better" ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That's right. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "than you are" ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "because I'm more religious." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Or even an image of myself as a spiritual person. I'm more spiritual than you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): For example, there could be, theoretically, you could have a man driving a Rolls Royce and then on the same street, a man riding a bicycle, and it is quite possiblenot necessarily of course, it could be the other way around. But it's quite possible that the man on the bicycle may have a bigger ego than the man in the Rolls Royce if he thinks of himself as spiritually superior to the man in the Rolls Royce. And so the ego compares itself always to others OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): in order to find some superiority somewhere. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes, because another favorite quote is, is that anytime you feel yourself superior or inferior to anybody, it is always your ego. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And that's very interesting. You can observe yourself in many situations because the ego always looks out when you come into a group of people or you meet new people. And it wants to position itself somewhere. "Am I better looking than this person, or am I more knowledgeable than this person, or do Iam I more wealthy than this person, or is this person more wealthy than me?" So it tries to position itself, and then that leads either to a sense of superiority OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): or inferiority, and both are ego. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. Well, what made me also think aboutone of the situations in our country in particular here in the United States is that people live lives in debt. They're indebted, credit card debt, overwhelmed by debt because of what you talk about on page 46, wanting, "the need for more." Wanting keeps the ego alive much more than having. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Let's talk about that. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Now that, again, a structure of the ego. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Because we've been talking about content and structure.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And one of the main structures of the ego is it is never satisfied. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Satisfied. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So, for example, when you have attained a goal or attained something that you wanted OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I got a nice house. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Got a nice house. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Nice things in the house. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): After a little while, it no longer satisfies you, and that's always a sign that that was thethis was an egoic problem. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because I now need nicer things. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And I need more square footage. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So nothing satisfies the ego for long, and therefore, it needs to continue to look for more. And, of course, and this is to do also with the ego's need for future because it's only by attaching undue importance to the future because it's looking for more in the future moment. It seeks to complete itself at some point. It wants to attain something in addition to what you already have. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So how do we stop that and begin to be satisfied where we are with what we have and who we are? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Well, first of all, to see the illusion of seeking fulfillment in the future, sometimes people need to have lived for a while to see that that's actually true.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That no matter what you achieve or what you attain, you're not satisfied for long. So what do we do about this? We realize that the thing that is of prime importance in our lives we had always overlooked, and that's the ego in us that always overlooked that. And that thing that is of absolutely prime importance in our lives is the present moment. The present moment is actually the easiest exit point out of the ego state of consciousness because when you're absolutely present in this moment, the ego can't survive. There's only conscious presence. The ego lives through past and future. It identifies with the past, but it's not a very happy identity. And it looks to the future where it wants, this, that or the other to complete itself. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, someone's asked meone of theduring the week, someone asked me, "What about our past memories that are pleasant?" You have happy times... ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Well, then it's good. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): pleasant memories, so. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Okay. And when you remember those memories, it's also the present moment. So no matter what you remember from the past, when those things happened, whether pleasant or unpleasant, did they happen in the past, that's what we say or could these things happen in the past. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): But, of course, they happened in the now because nothing can happen in the past. There is only the now. And when you remember something from the past, when do you remember it? OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Now. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Now. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And when you think of something that may happen in the future, when do you think of that? OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Now.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Now. And when that thing actually happens, when does that happen? OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Now. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Now. So there is no life apart from now. And that is a very important realization for people to have because the ego continuously overlooks the now. It thinks past and future are more important. It gives much more importance to past and future, and the now is just almost as if it didn't exist. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And what you're saying is that if we can learn to recondition ourselves to be present now ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Now. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): then we can be more alive ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): to do whatever it is going to be in the future ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): because even when the future gets here, it will only be now. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. The now is the foundation for the rest of your life OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Got it. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): because the rest of your life will also be the now. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Got it. Madilynn from Pennsylvania is 13 years old and is the phone with a question. Madeline? MADILYNN (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Hi. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Hi. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Hello.
MADILYNN (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Hello. On page 47, at the end of the second paragraph, the sentence reads, "Intense wanting that has no specific object can often be found in the stilldeveloping ego of teenagers, some of whom are in a permanent state of negativity and dissatisfaction." OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. MADILYNN (AUDIENCE MEMBER): By stating this, are you implying that teenagers cannot be awakened? That although I'm reading this book, I may have no chance in reaching consciousness merely because I'm only 13 and my ego is not fully developed? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Ah. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Go, Madilynn. Go, Madilynn. I just think the fact that you could ask the question is pretty darn good. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Now the first thing, you are more advanced than I was at 13. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. Than most of us, I'd say, yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): I would not have been able to read or understand that book when I was 13. So OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Are you reading the book, Madilynn? MADILYNN (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Yeah. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That's quite amazing. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's quite amazing. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So it certainly does not mean that you cannot be awakened because you're already awakening because if you were not already awakening, the book would be completely meaningless to you. MADILYNN: Okay. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So there is a new generation growing up and there are more youngsters now than before who may not
have to go through the extreme egoic delusion that we had to go through in our generation. And you may be one of them. It doesn't mean perhaps that your ego will not develop at all. Your ego will develop, but I don't believe that you will be as trapped in ego as I had to be. I can't speak for Oprah. I know Oprah is trying now. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Oprah was trapped. I was very trapped, Madilynn. I was very trapped. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So your chances are excellent. You are already awakening. It's wonderful to see. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Let me ask you this, though, Madilynn: When you just read us that passage at the bottom of page 47, "intense wanting that has no specific object can often be found in the still-developing ego of teenagers." So what you're saying there is that the ego of teenagers is still in the process of becoming. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Growing. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And also, Madilynn, don't you see it in your friends MADILYNN (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): this sort of intense wanting? MADELINE (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Yeah, all the time. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. So I think that's what he was talking about. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): He was talking about all of your friends, but not you, Madilynn. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Now, Madilynn, do you detect intense wanting in yourself? MADILYNN (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Yeah, occasionally. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Occasionally? MADILYNN (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): But you're not totally identified because you know it's there. There is an awareness there, isn't there?
MADILYNN (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Mm-hmm. Okay. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Are you understanding the book, Madilynn? MADELINE (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Yeah, it makes a lot of sense actually. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): What grade are you in actually? MADILYNN (AUDIENCE MEMBER): I'm in eighth grade. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Eighth grade. Okay. Well, great to hear from you. Thank you so much. MADILYNN (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Thank you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Where are you? In Canonsburg, Pennsylvania? That's what I hear. MADILYNN (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Yup. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Actually. Well, great. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Good. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you. Keep reading. MADILYNN (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Yup, thank you. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Thank you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay, so we're going to check our live e-mails again. That's pretty cool, isn't it? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Wonderful. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thirteen. I couldn't have... ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yeah. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Listen, I was in so much trouble at 13, I didn't have ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Me too.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. Okay, as we make our way into the worldthis is from Japan, Toyohashi, Japan. "As we make our way in the world, being confident and assertive, our characteristics have helped us get a job, that big promotion. I realize now that these are traits that are associated with ego, and so the question then becomes how then does one move beyond the ego?" Great question. How does one move beyond the ego? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Become aware of the ego is the first step. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But can't you still be the biggest jerk on earth and still just be aware of it and say, "Well, I'm a jerk? Boy, that sure is some big ego of mine." You know, we were talking earlier, I'm thinking, you know, you can be in the moment, still being one of those road raging people, road raging jerk in the moment ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Well OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): and you're aware you're a road raging jerk in the moment. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It's unlikely that at that moment you're actually aware. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Really? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Because if you're aware, then you cannot be totally possessed OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): By? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): by the ego, by the form OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): By the ego. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): by the thought form or the OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): emotional form. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): If that, as I mentioned OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Usually that's the pain-body that's taking over. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. If the dimension of awareness is present, you are not totally in the grip of ego. And sobut the quickest way out of ego is to practice as much as possible living in the present moment, which means to give more attention to this moment than to the future or the past, to make this moment the primary factor in your life rather than future and pasts. Of course, you still use future and past for practical purposes. It helps to make an appointment... OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): to go from here to there. It's all fine. It works very well. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But it means being present ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): As much as possible being open to whatever arises in the present moment. The word that I useand I think it may be helpful for many peopleis "make friends with the present moment" because the ego doesn't come to that. The ego always is antagonistic. It wantsat best, it uses the present moment as a stepping stone because it wants to get to the next moment, which promises greater fulfillment at best. But in many cases, the ego actually dislikes the present moment. It resists the present moment. So if you can make the present moment into the primary focal point of your life and live, then ego will very quickly diminish in you because it can not survive the present moment. So the ego OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So that's how you do it, that's how ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): one moves beyond the ego. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. The ego OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Just to be in present. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): The ego lives as ifpeople who are possessed by the ego live as if the present moment were their enemy. They are stressed. They want to get somewhere else. Whenever you need tothey're
doing something, but they really already want to be at the end of their doing. "Come on," they say OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): They are they don't want to be where they are. They'd rather be somewhere else. They don't want to be who they're with. They don'tit is always a striving away from now internally. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And that's, of course, the dysfunction of the people. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, I just had a moment like that today because I was waiting on somebody to get something ready. And they said, "We're so sorry. We're in a hurry." I've been waiting and I go, "No"I took the lesson from the book"no, I'm just here being with myself." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I'm not waiting on anything because if you're waiting, you're in anticipation ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): and you're wanting to be out of that moment. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That's right. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Waiting means you don't like this moment. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): You would rather have another moment. So whenever you are waiting, so to speak OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Waiting, yes.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Why not practice being rather than waiting, which means completely inhabit this moment and feel your body, perhaps feel the energy. And that's very present to feel that you're alive. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): All right. We have one last phone call, a question from Michelle in Philadelphia. Hello. MICHELLE (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Hi, Oprah. How are you? OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Fine. Good, good. MICHELLE (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Yes. Hi, Eckhart. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Hello. MICHELLE (AUDIENCE MEMBER): I'm just like a little bit so excited that you called me. My question was that I'm a little bit confused with Chapter 2. I understand the quote, "If someone takes your shirt, let them have your coat as well." But where do you draw the line without getting walked all over? I do not want be an egotistical person, but at the same time, I don't want to get taken advantage of. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Good question. MICHELLE (AUDIENCE MEMBER): So I was having a little bit of confusion with that. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Thank you. Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. Good, good, good. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. All it takes is sometimes letting go. There's more power in letting go than in clinging or hanging on to something. So there are situations when you actually become empowered when you let go rather than when you cling. It does not mean that people walk all over you. In fact, I say there are situations when you have to say no very clearly to a situation or to a person. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): But even that no can be, can be of two different kinds. Usually, the no is very negative. When you say no to a person, the person says, "I'll give you a ride home," and you see the person is drunk. Of course you wouldn't say yes just to be pleasant. You say no. Now, do you say no with negative energy and in a stage of resistance or do you say no that is positive? It simply
means a clear and straightforward, "No, I won't do that." This is very different from the resistance no. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): I call that "the no that is not negative, a high-quality no, truth." OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's also looking at the reason why you would cling to the shirt. "You can have my shirt. I'll give you the shirt if the reason why you're holding to this shirt is cause you think this shirt is going to give you more value or moreor you're operating from your ego when you're holding on to it." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So you're saying be able to be in the state of presence ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): and awareness so that you can surrender whatever needs to be surrendered. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That does not mean MICHELLE (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Right. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And surrender does not mean allowing yourself to be walked over, but to be fully present so that you can be conscious of what's always going on. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Yes. MICHELLE (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Right. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So it means in some cases, it's fine to say "Here, you want it, take it." In other cases it's not ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): depending upon what the situation is MICHELLE (AUDIENCE MEMBER): [Unintelligible]
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That's right. MICHELLE (AUDIENCE MEMBER): [Unintelligible] OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): based upon the truth of who you are in any given moment. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. MICHELLE (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Okay. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I got that, Michelle. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Good. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I got that, Michelle. MICHELLE (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Thank you so much. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you for the question. It helped me to get it. MICHELLE (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Thank you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So let's close with the peace that passes all understanding that you talk about on page 56. What is that peace? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That peace comes when you live in internal alignment with the present moment which means what is, whatever is. When you no longer argue with what is, when you don't fight it internally, this present moment already always is as it is. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Even if it's a situation that you don't want? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Even if you don't want it, it is. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You must accept it first. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): You accept first, and then you take action.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Cause that was the mud example you used last week. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, you get OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Even if you're stuck in the mud ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): This is where I'm right now. I'm here, and then you take action. But that action no longer arises out of negativity, which is there when you don't like to be where you are, when you don't like this moment. Always friendly with the present moment, accepting the is-ness of the present moment, then move on from there. Then whatever action you take is actually empowered by life itself. When you are in a state of negativity or resistance, your action is not empowered by life. So it's not inspired and much less effective than action that comes out of a state of nonresistant. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. It's like last week when we were having problems that neither you or I knew until we had finished the class. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And I saidwe were doing a toast to everybody afterwards for all of their efforts and I said, "I'm going to accept it. I'm going to accept that we had a break down on the Web. I'm going to accept it, and now let us correct it." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And it was everybody's lesson whose computer froze up. It was everybody's lesson to say, "Well, this is what is." And with that comes an inner peace that has nothing to do with what's happening or not happened. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Not resisting it and banging up the computer. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And, "Oh, my God," and ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And that's the peace that passes all understanding because the peace cannot be explained with reference to external events. It's there because you live in alignment with the present moment. That's the peace. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That is the peace living in alignment. Before we say goodbye, I'd like to thank you for being with Eckhart and with me, and we'll be here again next Monday at 8 p.m. Central. Don't forget, if you want to experience this class again or tell a friend who missed it, our webcast is available on demand tomorrow for free here at Oprah.com. Is that noon, Dean, beginning at noon? Beginning at noon you can start to download. And if you want to download a podcast of this class, you can do that tomorrow at Oprah.com and iTunes. Your assignment for our next class is to update your workbook and spend this week rereading and thinking about Chapter 3. Chapter 3 is all about the core of ego. So do your homework, and we'll see you next Monday night. I thank you again, Eckhart. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Thank you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Isn't this the coolest? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you so much to all of you. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Thank you. Yeah. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's been wonderful. Thank you, everybody all over the world. Good night. Good day. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Good night. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Good morning. Goodbye.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Hello again, everyone. Welcome to week number three of our New Earth Web class. And again, I, um, thank you. Eckhart Tolle thanks you for joining us as we bring students and seekers together to discuss our latest Book Club selection, Eckhart Tolle's A New Earth. I'm happy once again to see that we've been connecting with readers around the world. We've gotten questions and comments just this week from as far away as Rotterdam, Rio, Beirut, Casablanca, Greece, Seoul and even, even Tasmania. Hello, Tasmania. Thank you for all of your really so, so thoughtful, your e-mails have been, and I can tell you we love hearing from you wherever you are. There've been either 2 million of you who watched our classes live or on streams or downloads. No matter how you're watching, I welcome you to the awakening, the shift in consciousness that's happening really all over the planet. So I want to get started on Chapter 3. As you see on your screen, you can type in your questions and send them to us instantly throughout the class. We're going to be speaking with students via Skype. You know, Skype is that free software that allows you to make Internet and video phone calls from all over the world. Welcome, again. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Thank you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Did you have a good week? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Very good. Thanks. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Very good. So, if we were to summarize, last week we were talking about how the current state of humanity is that we are humans here living on the planet Earth, have an ego and learning to manage that ego is what this book is all about. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And going beyond ego at the same time means going beyond what the Buddha described as the normal human condition, which is one of suffering. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Cause ultimately the ego sooner or later, usually sooner, always produces some form of suffering. So it's really transcending the ego. Going beyond the ego, at the same time, means going beyond this unconscious urge to generate more and more suffering both into people's personal lives as well as collectively.
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OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, we did something last week that was unprecedented. You said it's never been done before on television where you just sit there in silence. And I thought a lot of people responded to the sense of connection from that. So do you want to do that again? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Let's do that again. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. So you're going to lead us in silence? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Okay. I'll just maybe one or two little hints about what to do with your mind when you go into silence because not speaking isn't complete silence yet because usually, even though you're not speaking, the mind is still active and producing noise. So how to stop the mind from producing noise or how to reduce the amount of noise that the mind produces is quite easy. You take your attention away from the mind, from thinking. And we did that already last week, and simply become aware that you are breathing. The air flows in and out and you feel yourself breathing. Air flows in and out the body. And so as we go into silence now for a few seconds, just direct your attention and feel your own breath. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That was nice. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Today's lesson, Chapter 3 beginning on page 59. I love the idea that we're all literally on the same page. Everybody, page 59. "The Core of the Ego." "Most people are so completely identified with the voice in the headthe incessant stream of involuntary and compulsive thinking and the emotions that accompany itthat we may describe them as being possessed by their mind." My question to you, if we are not that constant stream of thinking, then who are we? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Now, that question usually would be answered by the mind by giving some kind of concept of who we are. Now OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes, I am female ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): This, that. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I'm African-American.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I work on TV. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): My mother was, my mother is ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I live at, my job is ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That's right. Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. That's how most people, if you say, "Who are you?" ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. But beyond that because concepts refer to who we are temporarily in the world of form. Your mother, your father, you have a certain profession, a certain, belong to a certain race. You're a man or a woman, nationality, all these things. Now, when you ask, "Who are we beyond that?" there is no conceptual answer to that that would, no conceptual answer would be absolutely correct. We can give little hints. We can say, "We are the formless consciousness behind all that." OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Hm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): We are that which cannot be defined through concepts or words. So knowing who you are is not, does not mean that suddenly you have some new idea in your head, you say "Oh, now, let me tell you who I am. I've discovered who I am." OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): You get closer to knowing you and who you are. You come to a stage where you have that feeling, and I mention it in the book somewhere, you, when people tell me, "I don't know who I am anymore" because they have realized who they are not. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): They are ultimately not their profession, they are not whatever function they fulfill. They are not their nationality. So they're not, they're beginning to realize, "That's not really who I am." But then they enter the unknown and say well, "If I'm not that, no, I'm no longer sure who I am." And I always congratulate people when they say, "I'm not sure who I am anymore." That's a OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, that usually connotes confusion. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Confusion if you still want to know who you are. But if you can become comfortable with not knowing who you are, with not defining yourself to yourself or to others, mainly to yourself because the ego is constantly a self-definition to remind yourself who you are. You remember your story, your past and so on. You have opinions about yourself and so you, this is the self-definition. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But don't we obviously need the ego, Eckhart? Don't we obviously need it? Otherwise, why would we have it? Why wouldn't we have evolved past it? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That's, we're doing that now. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So it's been a stage in the evolution of consciousness, a necessary stage in the evolution. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): For survival? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): The ego arose because we started to think. So the ability in humans, suddenly humans developed the ability to differentiate and to think. To me, the beginning of the Old Testament really describes the beginning of the ability to think because what it says in the Old Testament is, "they ate of the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil," the ability to say this is good, this is bad, to differentiate, starting to think. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So the ability to think arose in our species, which was a wonderful thing on the one hand, but over many, many millennia, hundreds of thousands of years, more and more, our original sense of connectedness with life and with being, which natural ones still has, animals still have that. They, they live in a state of natural OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And some cultures did. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Some of ancient cultures. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): The Native Americans. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That's right. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): They still have that, the sense of being rooted, being comfortable in your own skin, being rooted deeply within and feel that sense of oneness with the totality of life. Oneness with life itself. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And so we, we had, humanity had that once and, as you say, some ancient cultures perhaps there are still remnants of ancient cultures, they still have that, and, but humans as they went into more and more thinking and differentiation, they gradually, their sense of self gradually moved from, from the center of their being, which I would describe as their heart or the solar plexus, into their mind. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Into their mind. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And the more and more they began to identify with the movement of thought, and, gradually, out of this continuous identification with the movement of thought, a thought-made entity was produced, which is the ego. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. Which is what you're saying is being possessed by our minds? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. By being possessed by our minds. Okay. You say, "This is the egoic mind. And we call it ego because there's a sense of self, of I, in every thought, every memory, every interpretation, opinion" and so forth. And this is unconsciousness, spiritually speaking? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Because you identify with thought rather than being identifying with the, your inner essence, which is what we lost, which is the state of Eden or paradise as is described in OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): In the Bible. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): The Bible. We lost that, and it's not only in the Bible. There are many ancient cultures where they speak of the Golden Age that we lost, in many different cultures. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And you say egos are all the same on the surface, they only, they differ only on the surface. Deep down they're all the same? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. Now, Chapter 3 is all about the core of the ego, what makes it thrive. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And you say that, that what we, what we react to in another we strengthen in ourselves. Can you give us an example of that? One of the things the ego needs to survive is reacting against other people. "What you react to in another you strengthen in yourself, you say. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. That's usually what we react to most strongly in others, and what we most strongly condemn in others is usually something that we also have, a trait that we also have but that we are unconscious of in ourselves. So when we, for example, become upset if we encounter somebody who is very greedy, or we could become upset about somebody who is dishonest, no matter who, the, what, the, the force of your reaction usually tells you that something in you that you need to look at. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Really? All the time? All the time? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Well, it's for you to find out or any, anybody to find out in their own lives. When you react strongly have it then become alert and have a look inside.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. You say, "Complaining is one of the ego's favorite strategies for strengthening itself. Every complaint is a little story the mind makes up that you completely believe in." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Now, that's a very common thing and perhaps until people begin to become more aware OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And some egos survive on complaining. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Some egos who haven't got much else to identify with, they can survive on complaining alone. So the continuously you are condemning other people, you're continuously criticizing, condemning or judging negatively situations that you're in, your surroundings, other people. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So the ego is the identification with those thoughts? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Right. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's not necessarily the thoughts? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No. It's the, it's the, it's the thing that you become, you become those thoughts. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): You're, there's no space between you and the thought. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Got that. Okay. All right. So name-calling is also a form that the ego, you know ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): defines itself. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And that, of course, one could say, "Well, it's relatively harmless." On one level it's relatively harmless to call a person this or that, to attach a label to a person. But if you follow this up to see, again, you can actually see how dreadful it is to label another human being or another group of human beings. Because once you have labeled, you've attached a mental label to another human being, you can, you have desensitized yourself to the aliveness and the humanity of that other human being because you're relating now to a label. So if you say, "He's a," whatever they be. "He's a Communist. He's this, he's
that" Any, any label it immediately instead of sensing the aliveness of that human being and have some empathy with that, you have cut yourself off and you have a label. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): In Chapter 4 you talk about that, that role-playing, how we do it in temporary ways. I'm the, you know, I'm the person who's going into the store. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I'm the customer. And there's the clerk. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That's, right, yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): The person who labels himself the clerk, and I'm the customer, there's a certain defined behavior that we have. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And then when it's done collectively the labeling, when an entire nation labels another nation in a certain way OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. Yeah. Or I'm the boss and you're the janitor. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Or you're my subordinate. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): All these are forms of mental labeling so they, any kind of mental label that you are completely identified with desensitizes you to the humanity of the, and then of the human being. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And then all kinds of things are possible. Even violence becomes possible.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. I got it. Everybody, I just got this. You got this. Remember two weeks ago we were talking about walking under the trees, feeling nature, not labeling the flowers, being able to experience the essence of the flowers, what you're saying here is you're labeling people as, "He's a jerk, or he's a whatever." Once you start doing that, you become desensitized to who they really are in the same way that you were when you were labeling things in nature. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Right. Exactly. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. We have Bill. Hello, Bill. Talked to you earlier today. BILL (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Oprah, how are you? OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Hi. Bill's in Connecticut on Skype. Bill and I Skyped on The Oprah Show earlier today. What's your question to us now? BILL (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Yeah, well, first of all, Eckhart, I'd like to say that this book is indicative to the quintessential essence of life. This is incredible reading. I have a very simple question. Would, do you compare the egoic mind to the subconscious? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): I don't use those terms, but because they are a completely different frame of reference. There is, of course BILL (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Okay. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): a lot of subconscious activity in the egoic mind also. All we can do BILL (AUDIENCE MEMBER): All right, but do they run in conjunction with each other, or are they separate? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Essentially the ego is, the ego, or the ego to survive or the ego to thrive, you need to be unconscious of it. So the way I say it, I'll describe the entire egoic functioning as a part of the unconsciousness. And it's only BILL (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Right.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): it's only when you become aware of those patterns that operate in your own mind that you are stepping out of the unconsciousness, and this is why we call it awakening. And when you suddenly become aware even of, initially perhaps of just this tiny pattern in your, in your mind. For example, we talked about complaining. If you could become aware that often during the day you complain uselessly because it serves no purpose, about other people or situations, and so I'm going to say, "Oh, there's the complaining voice in my head." Not only do you say this, the complaining voice, there is a deeper dimension of consciousness that has suddenly come forth from where you can be aware of that voice. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And what you're saying is you, we, are the awareness? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That's right. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): We are the awareness. BILL (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Wow. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): This is essentially who you are. You are not all those things that the awareness can be conscious of the order, the labels or whatever. You are the consciousness or the awareness itself. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You are the awareness. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And as long as you don't know that OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Didn't that blow your mind, Bill? BILL (AUDIENCE MEMBER): I'm, like, I'm, I'm just, I'm washed away here. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): What is so fascinating, I was sharing this with Eckhart as we were preparing for tonight's lesson, that I received an e-mail from you through our message boards where you were talking about how your life was sort of spiraling downhill. You were not communicating with your wife. You were sort of BILL (AUDIENCE MEMBER): I was a, Oprah, I wasn't communicating with anybody. I was just, I was stagnating. And I needed a wake-up call, and I was, I was, I was on the search. And when I heard you mention this book, it was the name that stuck, A New Earth. You know, that's really cool. "I really have to check that out." And it took me five weeks to buy the book but, you know, it's my manual for life. It's, it's just, it's an incredible composition. It truly is.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So, you were saying on The Oprah Show earlier today, many people are joining us this evening who weren't a part of The Oprah Show. But you were saying on The Oprah Show earlier today when we were Skyping. That, you sat down, you were going to give it a couple hours and then BILL (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Yeah, yeah. I figured, you know, I'll knock off two or three chapters. I got so consumed in this, in this, this whole wave of, of, of writing. It was like, "Wow, I can't put it down." And it, you know, 12 hours later, I closed the cover and I went, "Whew, wow, what an incredible ride." OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. And what was the biggest realization BILL (AUDIENCE MEMBER): You know, (unintelligent) OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Hey, Bill. What was the biggest realization for you? BILL (AUDIENCE MEMBER): The biggest realization, you know, the whole book itself was a realization. I didn't have any one chapter or any one paragraph. I went throughit really started on Chapter 3 for me. From Chapter 3 it went to the next chapter. The chapter after that, how we're brought up, how we live in a dysfunctional life. And Oprah, let me tell you something. I grew up in one of the most dysfunctional families you'd ever want to know. And this is something that we carry with us OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Your pain-body. BILL (AUDIENCE MEMBER): And I've, I've said that, you know, this is a manual for life. We're, we're thrown out there, we're not given, you know, we get a manual for our cars, our OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. BILL (AUDIENCE MEMBER): our appliances, our electronics. But we're thrown out there and, you know, as young adults it's like, "Go do your thing." But while we're doing our thing we're consumed in all of the negativity that is in society, the negativity that's in our families and it's, you know, we can take our self so far, but this book can take us a whole lot farther. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, thank you, Bill. Bill, thank you. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Thank you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I'm glad you were around when I was talking about the report.
BILL (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Hey, Eckhart, Eckhart, I got to tell you something. You are, you, I, I don't know where you came from, and I did read in the book that you were studying a, you, you never, you know, said what kind of career you were on in the book, you just said that you were studying for a lucrative career and you, you got off the beaten path and went into the spiritual realm. I've got to tell you something, my friend. We need more people like you. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Well OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Bill, I thank you very much for that. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Thank you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you so much. Thank you. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It's a OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Where were you? What were you doing? That's a good point that Bill brings up. What were you doing before? The last week you said that your thing was you never thought you were so cute ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): but that you had, that you thought, you thought that you had such a great intellectual mind. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. I was OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So what were you doing? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): an intellectual. I got into university fairly late because I left school at 13 or 14. And then later, when I was 18, I went to live in England, and then I took, suddenly became interested in intellectual things. I was searching, becoming already more and more unhappy. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And I thought all the answers would be found on the intellectual level.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So what were you planning on doing? Not being a spiritual teacher, obviously. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No, becoming a professor and then have all the answers too life, and then, after a while, I realized that they don't have the answers. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Wow. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And I became more and more depressed and unhappy, and then, suddenly, something snapped inside and this dis-identification from my mind happened. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Which happened to our friend OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Bill. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Bill while he was reading the book because when somebody reads the book and has such a powerful response to it, that means the, the reading of the book coincides with his own awakening. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Uh-huh. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): As he reads. But this happens because he was so ready for it. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Cause he was ready. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): You know, ready for it. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Hm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It's wonderful to see when that happens. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): When that happens. But, okay, we were talking earlier about the, the ego loves complaining. First of all, loves to believe what, loves to identify with the thoughts in the head
and believe those thoughts and loves to complain. But aren't there some things legitimately worth complaining about? You know, you know, anybody who's ever gone into house construction at some point or another is told a story by the construction workers, unless you have the most amazing, you know, that this is going to be finished at a certain time or it's going to be a certain price and then it doesn't, often doesn't turn out to be what you expected. That's a complaint a lot of people have. Isn't that legitimate? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Like you talk in the book about, "My soup is cold." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. In a restaurant? OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And they're, yeah, in a restaurant. "My soup is cold." Sometimes your soup is cold. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That's right. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So if that's all the complaining that we are talking about, mainly hear the egoic complaining, most of that fulfills no real purpose because it's not meant to bring about change in any situation. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. Okay, that's complaining in resentment complaining. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. It can, and a lot of it for many people happens only in the head. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Sometimes they verbalize it also. But a lot of the complaining happens in the head alone. But no matter whether they verbalize it or whether the complaining happens in the head alone, in probably 90 percent of the cases it has no real purpose because it's not meant to bring about change, it's meant to strengthen the ego. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I see that.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And, and then, of course OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, I see it. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): as there are situations, of course, where something needs to be said in order to bring about change in the situation, and that's a completely different kind of complaining where you say something so that change can happen. For example, the cold soup in the restaurant. You say OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): "the soup is cold. Please bring me a hot soup." OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That's fine. You could call that also complaining, and there are also two ways of, as far as this kind of complaining is concerned, that it's connected to a real situation and is meant to bring about change. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): There's one way of complaining with, with ego in that situation also, and that is when you, the ego is attempting to make somebody wrong. The personal element comes into it, and it's a negativity that flows into it. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): To make somebody wrong because my soup is cold ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. They OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Dammit. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That's right. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): You're personalizing it and so you're making another person almost one would say into an enemy
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): when you're complaining that way. So whether it's somebody who's a builder who is working on your home, then, and so you, there is a way of complaining. I wouldn't even perhaps call it complaining or simply stating what the situation is. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Stating the facts. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Without the negativity that flows into it when the ego does it. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And so that can be practiced. And the, whatever you are stating in order to bring about change is actually going to be much more effective if it's done without the negativity. Because if it comes with negativity, it provokes a negative reaction in the other, and so the whole situation then becomes a conflict situation. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): As you say, "See if you can catch, that is to say, notice, the voice in the head, perhaps"I'm on page 64 everybody, second paragraph. "Perhaps in the very moment it complains about something, recognize it for what it is: the voice of the ego." And then later you say, "The moment you became aware of the ego in you"this is midparagraph"it's strictly speaking no longer the ego, but just an old, conditioned mind-pattern." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Because ego means you're not aware of it. So ego means unconsciousness. So a good thing that people can ask themselves when they become aware of this complaining voice in the head or the verbalized complaining voice: "Is this meant to bring about change in the situation?" And if they look at it clearly, often they will say no. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): No. It's just hearing myself complain. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because it keeps fueling my sense of righteousness. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And, and
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And rightness. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And what the complaining voice also loves is to get confirmation from somebody else that, "Yes, you are, you're right to complain." So then two people join. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Oh, yeah. And then you just fuel it on and on and on and on. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And love it. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That's right. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Doris is Skyping us from outside of London, England. Doris, what's your question? Hello? DORIS (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Hi, Oprah. Hi, Eckhart. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Hello. DORIS (AUDIENCE MEMBER): What an amazing day or evening. Um, the book resonated very deeply within me, I must say, and reading the, on, on page 62, the first paragraph, "resentment is the emotion that goes with complaining," it started the question within me, and I thought like, but where do hurt feelings belong to? Is this something that my ego tells me to feel or where do they come from, Eckhart? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Can you give a situation, an actual, it's always easier to talk about this when you can look at an actual situation where, for example, you experience DORIS (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Well, hurt feelings, you know, can have most of the time is some outside, either way, somebody is telling you something that hurts you personally. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Right. DORIS (AUDIENCE MEMBER): But what about sadness? You know, you lose a person or, you know, hurt feelings come from many different sources. Where do they come from? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes.
DORIS (AUDIENCE MEMBER): How do they relate to the ego? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Thank you. Okay. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So, often it happens that, let's say, somebody criticizes you and you feel hurt. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Because perhaps you had, were attached to what you were doing and OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): you hurt. Now, what is it in you that feels hurt? And yes, it is the ego that feels hurt. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And so when that happens all you do is, first of all, you, you can't say, "Oh, I shouldn't be feeling hurt, and I shouldn't have an ego." It doesn't work. You simply accept that this is what DORIS (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): you are feeling right now and you recognize what it is in you that is producing the feeling. DORIS (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Ah, okay. Just take it in? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It, it's a mental image of yourself that has become hurt. Because most people think of themselves as, as good people or, and if somebody says, "you are no good," immediately something feels hurt. And many people get extremely angry. They're not only hurt. For many people that immediately turns into anger. And so the ego wants to immediately defend itself. Even driving in traffic OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): often let's say you're driving and another driver suddenly calls you "idiot." That hurts. On one level, it hurts. It hurts the ego, and, usually immediately, the ego goes into self-repair mode as I call it OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): and will shout something back in order to repair itself. But OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I'm laughing at you because I mean I'm thinking, you know, if somebody calls me an idiot, once, somebody gave me the finger once, and I was like, "Gee, that's, he gave me the finger." But I don't think, I don't remember being hurt about it. I was so stunned by it. But, but, but yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): But other, many people would be hurt. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): But you were not because you were OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I thought, "What a bad day he's having." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. You were OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): in touch with a deeper level of yourself where nothing is hurt. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Where it, you can't be hurt on that level. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Or, or when I used to take taxis all the time, when I'd have a taxi driver in a really bad mood, the worst he, if he was in a horrible mood, I would tip him double extra so that he'd be nicer for the next person. Really. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Sorry.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. DORIS (AUDIENCE MEMBER): That's a good one. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, even, there's a, a story about a, an official in Japan, a high government official went to see his Zen master, and he asked the Zen master, "Can you explain to me what the self is?" Self really means ego because really just talk about the self in Buddhism. "Can you explain to me what the self is?" And the Zen master said, "What a stupid question is that? Why you ask me such stupid questions?" And immediately the, the government official said, "How dare you talk to me like that. Don't you know who I am?" And the master said, "That's the ego." OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's the ego. DORIS (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Yeah. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): All right. Got it. Got it. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Now this, this person got hurt but in him he, immediately the hurt turned into anger. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So any time you have hurt feelings, that is your ego? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. DORIS (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. DORIS (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Mm-hmm. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Now you say here, also, Doris, on page 65 he says, "A long-standing resentment is called a grievance. To carry a grievance is to be in a permanent state of 'against,' and that is why grievances constitute a significant part of many people's ego. Collective grievances can survive for centuries in a psyche of a nation." DORIS (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Yeah. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): We know that. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "Or a tribe and fuel a never ending cycle of violence." And so I guess DORIS (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Yeah, but isn't OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): all of us need to ask what are the grievances ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): that we allow ourselves to carry? Yeah. Family grievances. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Families. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): that carry on and you don't even, you forget why you're carrying the grievance. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Personal grievances, family grievances, grievances between tribes, religious groups, nations and so on. Dreadful. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And so are you saying no grievance has a justification at all? All grievances are based in the, as the core of the ego? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It's an essential part of the ego to hold grievances. The ego keeps itself alive. It's one of the ways in which the ego keeps itself alive. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You also say on page 66 here, Doris, "Don't try to let go of the grievance. Trying to let go, to forgive, does not work. Forgiveness happens naturally when you see that it has no purpose other than to strengthen a false sense of yourself." Forgiveness happens DORIS (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): when you realize that being resentful is only to build up your ego. But that resentment is only helping you carry around this false sense of who you are. I got that. I got that. You got that, Doris?
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And DORIS (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Yes, I got it too. Yes, thank you very much. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You got it too. Good. All the way in London. Thank you very much. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Thank you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you. DORIS (AUDIENCE MEMBER): All the way. Oh, yeah, thank you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): We have Tim, a retired Air Force officer who lives in Sicily on the line. Hi, Tim. Your question? TIM (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Hello, Oprah. How are you doing? OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Good. Good to talk to you. TIM (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Hey, good to talk to you. Thank you for this opportunity. It's a, it's a real honor to be talking to you and Eckhart. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. Your question? TIM (AUDIENCE MEMBER): I'm, I want to put this in context first. I'm jumping ahead to page 74, where Eckhart mentions that sometimes you, you need to protect yourself against the deeply unconscious. So in that context, my question is, in the case of war, if I protect myself and others via violence, I seem to be part of the insanity that he talks about. But, but to surrender our lives to, you know, any unconscious mass of people seems to push us closer to, to extinction. And I guess my question is, are my defensive actions bringing humankind closer to or further away from a collective enlightenment? And then as a follow-up I would just ask, you know, is it possible personally, can I fight a war and stay in the present? You know, keep that space between my ego and, and my true self? OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Whew, that's a, those are brilliant questions. Thoughtful. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Yeah. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you so much.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Thank you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thanks, Tim, for asking. TIM (AUDIENCE MEMBER): No, no, thank you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): I have personally known people and read accounts of people who've actually experienced an awakening in the midst of the turmoil of a war situation. When death was imminent, could happen at any second, and something within them suddenly disidentified. The ego broke down in the midst of the suffering generated by that situation. The ego collapsed as it also has happened to people in the concentration camps and prison camps. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): I regularly get letters from people in prison who tell me that they have suddenly become free. They are still prison, but they consider themselves free. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So we are, we are talking perhaps here not only about war but any kind of situation that usually would be described as extremely negative and unconscious, and is it possible to awaken there? Yes, it happens. I'd say that every human being has a spiritual teacher. For most humans, their spiritual teacher is their suffering. And a war situation is an extreme form of suffering. And, ultimately, whatever happens here will lead us to awakening, even something that looks on the surface very negative, like a war situation. Eventually, even that will lead us into an awakening. And it's already happening. So, yes, it is possible in the midst of war to suddenly awaken. What will happen then, I cannot foretell. It depends on whatever the situation is. It is also true to say that once you have awakened, it is very unlikely that you would still become part of violence. I'm not saying it could not happen. Nothing can be said categorically. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): But you no longer resonate with violence. Now, so that if war will no longer happen when a certain number of people have, I don't know what the critical mass is.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): A certain number of people have entered the awakened state, so they no longer generate the unconsciousness, the negativity that produces war. That's perhaps OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's where we're evolving to. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): We are evolving to that. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): We haven't done so good in the 20th century nor 21st. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No. The 20th century OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thus far. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): was dreadful, the most dreadful. It, almost as if the ego had reached a climax there, the madness of it. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. Mm-hmm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And we can see a lot of that still flowing now into the 21st century also, but at the same time something is happening in this century that is quite unprecedented. Well, it started in the later part of the last century. This awakening is quite unprecedented. Well, if you look, for example, in previous war situations there was very little OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Challenges to it. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It was never challenged by the people. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And now this is very different. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. You actually say in Chapter 4 you talk about how the hippie movement ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): in the United States brought about a shift in consciousness. The movement itself started to fall apart, but the hippies actually brought a challenge to the status quo as we knew it. The hippies said ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. They also, it was a disidentification from the collective image. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): The collective, which until that point people had very strongly identified with the collective. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Behaved a certain way. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Very. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Did things as they were told. Obeyed the status quo. Yes. All right. You say, "Ego takes everything personally." Back to what Doris was saying earlier. "Ego takes everything personally. Emotion arises, defensiveness, perhaps even aggression. Are you defending the truth? No, the truth, in any case, needs no defense." Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. So when people argue, usually an argument, often arguments turn into violence if people are very unconscious, and many of you still are. Arguments turn into violence. So, so when people argue about something, usually what happens is they are so identified with their opinion about OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Of being right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Being right. Their mental position. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Uh-huh.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That any questioning of their mental position of their opinion or their viewpoint is regarded as attack on them. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And this is how the ego gets confused with who you are. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You know, I will tell you a funny story that I was reading this book, and Stedman and I were at dinner, just the two of us, talking about what are the most important questions in life? And said, I said one, I said, "I believe one of the most important questions in life is to, to know whether or not, is just to, to know, to believe whether the universe is compassionate or not compassionate." And he said, "Well, I disagree with you. I think the most important thing is whether or not you know how to work on your strengths." I go, "Well, that's ridiculous 'cause the most important thing is, do you believe that, whether the universe is compassionate or not?" And so we're arguing about whether or not the universe is compassionate or not compassionate. And he didn't agree with my, my view and I said "Well, you know, I know I'm right." I ended up clearing the table, leaving the table and going upstairs. Because I don't want to have the conversation anymore. And, you know, half an hour passes. He comes up and he says, "Okay, you're right. You're right." I go, "Never mind, I don't need to be right. I, I don't need to be right." And then I realized that yes, that is exactly what happened. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): My ego is arguing because it is defending its right to be right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Identification with a mental position, with a concept in the head OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): can happen so easily. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. And we're talking about compassionate issues. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Or non compassionate issues. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Right. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, my friend Kidada Jones, who I was at her father's 75th birthday party the other night. Quincy Jones turned 75, everybody. And Kidada was there, his daughter. And we started talking about A New Earth, and she had so many questions that I said, "Kidada, why don't you just Skype us on Monday?" And here you are. Hello, Kidada. KIDADA (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Hi, Eckhart. Hi, Oprah. How are you? OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Fine. And your question? KIDADA (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Okay, my question is, this book hits me really, really deep in my heart, and I know it to be the truth. But I have such resistance, and I feel like if everything in form is an illusion, it feels really disenchanting. And I'm in a point in my life where I have goals. I'm excited about my career. I want to have kids. I want to meet a great partner. And if it's all illusion, where's the fun? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): There's KIDADA (AUDIENCE MEMBER): That the ego? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): You're not meant to believe that all is illusion. That, that you're at a stage in your life where you can simply enjoy the play of form. Eventually, you will come to a point, as every human does where the, the forms in your life are no longer completely satisfying. They leave a certain emptiness and even frustration. But you haven't reached that point yet. That's fine. In the meantime, you enjoy your life. Be as present as you can, which means don't project yourself continuously into some future moment that promises more and greater fulfillment. But if, if that happens, and if you can't help it, that's fine too. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): But why not enjoy this moment as it is? Really, that's all you can do. This is not to take the joy out of life, it's to really deepen the way in which you live rather than living on the surface of things and expecting fulfillment through relatively superficial things.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Going deeper to a place where true joy resides. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I know. I think that's a good question though that you, you raise, Kidada, especially I've heard this from a lot of people your age who say, "So now where is ambition? Ambition, is ambition my ego?" Good question. KIDADA (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Right. You want to hit career strides, you want to see things happen. You're excited to meet somebody. You're going to have a baby that you're going to be madly in love with and then I hear Eckhart's voice, and I have to remember my ego, remember that it's form and it just kind of makes me feel a little unexcited. But I guess it's not being in the moment so ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No, there comes a point when you can see the truth of this very clearly in your own life. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Uh-huh. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Until you can see the truth of it very clearly in your own life, in your own life, the, the book remains on the conceptual level, and so I wouldn't say that there's anything in the book that you should believe in. If the book works for you, the truth of it is immediately recognized like in Bill, who we talked to earlier. The truth of it is immediately recognized, and there's a sense of, "Ah, yes." But at 20 I would not have understood the truth in this book. I had ambitions. I wanted to become a great professor. I wanted to be seen as, to be successful. I wanted to show to the world that I can make it. So I was working hard. If at that point I had read this book, I would have said the same as you, "I don't want this right now. I don't need this." OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): The book really, as long as you feel it you don't really need it, it's fine. You should carry on with what you're doing. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I don't even hear her saying she doesn't need it. I think KIDADA (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Oh, I, I totally need it. I totally know that this book is real and true, and I'm actually turning 34 in a week. So it's really, really, really important for me to figure out how to integrate consciousness into this next chapter. I want to approach it in a very conscious way. But there's still probably a little part of me, a lot of part of me, that's gripping onto the form. I live in
Los Angeles. I'm in a business where form is at the forefront. It's kind of a hard balance. I'm just wondering how do you reap the fruits and not identify to the form. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, forms. You can enjoy the forms, and you can really only truly enjoy the forms if you are not completely identified with the forms. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Good. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Because if you are completely identified with the forms, there's always an element of fear that the form might leave you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): A situation that you have, whatever. The form might leave you or it will suddenly the form will no longer be satisfying. So it's, the attachment to the form doesn't really mean that you enjoy it. The attachment to the form produces negativity and produces fear around it, around your life situation. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's doing, Kidada, what I said, I think, on an earlier class. It's like especially in Los Angeles. You know, great, fun, fun city, City of the Angels there. It's like being able to be in the world but not of it. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Yes. And OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): To be in the world but not of it. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And a lot of that, the attachment, um, is less likely to be there. The more present you are with any life experience, the more present you are in the moment, then you are not, you're not attached. The attachment needs future, needs more, looks to the future. Either it's a thread or hope. So be as present as you can in every situation in your life, in every moment in your life. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. And what you were talking about, I think, in one of the future chapters about being able to be present with your children instead of just going through the motions with your children. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Being present with your children. Hey Kidada, great to see you on Skype. KIDADA (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Thank you for having me. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Mmhmm. KIDADA (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Bye. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Let's go to our study group, who's watching our webcast at Borders on Michigan Avenue in Chicago. Hi, everybody. GROUP (AUDIENCE MEMBERS): Hi. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I hear Jamie is there and has a question. JAMIE (AUDIENCE MEMBER : Yes. Hi, Oprah. Hi, Eckhart. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Hello. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Hi. JAMIE (AUDIENCE MEMBER): My name is Jamie. My question is, on page 83, you mention how fame especially is such a downfall for the ego. And I'm just wondering, Oprah, how you manage to keep everything so grounded. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Hmm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): I've been meaning to ask you that too. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Really? Oh, thanks for bringing that up, Jamie. How do I manage to keep everything so grounded? I can, I thinkI believe that I'm not attached to the fame. I don't know that to be true since I have been "famous" for most of my adult life. But I believe that I really amthat what I do comes from such a, you know, I consider myself blessed. And I getI'm blessed because I have acquired fame and attention and money by being myself. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That's it. You don't play roles.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. It's notI don't have to be anybody other than myself, and so ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And that's very rare. On television, almost everybody's playing a role. And your success is due to the fact that you are yourself. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): You're the same person outside television as you are here in the studio. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So, and really that can apply to anybody. The more you're truly yourself and not playing roles, the more powerful you are. The ego tells you you need to play some role. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): But your true power lies in not playing a role. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I will say this. When I first started television, I was a news reporter and never was satisfied. I've always felt that I was exploiting people. My whole day was based around finding the worst story possible to report. And also, I was an anchorwoman. And something would happen, Jamie, when the light would come on. Like on this camera there's a little, red light on. And all of a sudden I'd be, like, talking like I am now, and the light would come on and I would suddenly go into my newswoman anchor voice and play the role of the newswoman anchorperson that I thought I was supposed to be. And one night I was reading some copy that I hadn't preread. And I was naming a lot of countries, and Canada was on the list. And I called Canada, "Canahhda." And I started cracking myself up that I said, "Did just call Canada Canahhda?" And that was the breakthrough moment for me on television. That was the breakthrough moment ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Hey. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Where I was able for just a, you know, few seconds break through the wall of my faade as an anchorwoman who knows all of the different countries and in Canahhda. And that moment was such a funny moment for me I couldn't stop laughing and started the process of me being able to be myself on the air, that first little glimpse of it. So, did you have a question for Eckhart?
JAMIE (AUDIENCE MEMBER): With all, you know, this webcast and being on Oprah, obviously you've come into incredible fame, and I didn't ask you the question cause this has been what you've been preaching since, you know, since you wrote The Power of Now. But do you anticipate, are you just completely self-actualized you don't expect this to be a problem or how do you expect fame to come into play for you at all now? OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. Now this is so funny. Amy Gross who's the editor of O Magazine, who's also a pretty centered person, we were talking about Eckhart did an article for us from a conversation that we had earlier in O Magazine in our May issue. And so we were talking about Eckhart coming for the first session a couple weeks ago. She says, "Won't we all be surprised if Eckhart comes in a fur hat and three pounds of bling, wearing sunglasses with an entourage." If Eckhart walks in and go, "Yo, wassup?" No, I don't think it's affected him, because this is so funny. When I first called Eckhart months agomonths and monthsI don't even know how long ago it was, to tell Eckhart that I was going to be choosing A New Earth as our Book Club selection. I think it's our 61st selection or whatever. He was veryhe was so calm about it. Later, one of the producers says, "Well did you call him? Did you call him?" And I said, "Yeah, I called him." And he said, "Well was he excited?" And I said, "I think for him that was excitement." As I said, "I'm choosing the book." He goes, "Yes. Very good." So anyway, I don't think it's gone to his head yet. And listen, so far no bling. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): When itwhen it happens, then you'll know the ego has come back. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I'll be ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So let me know. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I will. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Cause I won't know it if it comes back. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): When Eckhart comes in wearing two earrings, I'll let you know. Okay. Let's see. Thank you so much, Jamie. And all the group from Borders, thank you for being there every week. Yay Borders. Michigan Avenue. Let's see some of the e-mail questions you've been sending during our class on our computer screen here. This is Melissa from Crab Orchard, West Virginia. She says she's being awakened with worry. "My sister's addicted to drugs. She's been through rehab to no avail. Every day we worry about her. We fear she may die if she continues. My question is this, how can we live awakened with this major, major distraction in our lives?" That's good. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Well the first thing, you need to take responsibility for your own life and your own stage of consciousness.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Rather than thinking your primary responsibility is your sister's life and your sister's state of consciousness, that's not the case. You have to start with yourself. Change can only begin with yourself. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So are you taking responsibility for your own state of consciousness rather than believing unconsciously that, of course, you're worried and there's nothing else you can do. You have to look at what you call the worry in yourself. The continuous mind activity that dwells on negativity. See if you can enter that state of acceptance of presence and just be with yourself. I recommend to get out of the mind, go into the body several times a day and connect with the feeling of aliveness within. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): For yourself. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So that the worrythe worry pretends. The worry is part of the ego. It's the compulsion to think. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Incessantly. And it serves no purpose, because it doesn't get you anywhere. It's similar to the complaining. It has no useful purpose. It doesn't bring about change in any situation. No matter how much you worry, it's never the worry that brings about any change in the situation. The mind may tell you you need to worry because it has some purpose. It doesn't. So the essential thing is that you get out of that unconscious habit of continuous worrying. So find a little bit of peace in yourself first to start with. And it may be more than a little bit of peace. Start with a little. Is there any peace in you underneath this continuous mental noise that we call worry? OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Is there anything else in you? And you have to find that you can only be of true service to your sister, you can only be of truly, truly be an agent for change in this world if something has changed in your state of consciousness. Otherwise, you contribute to the turmoil. So, find through meditating, through bringing awareness to the present moment as much as possible, through bringing awareness into the inner body, as much possible. Get out of the mind, and enter presence, and realize the mind may tell
you this isyou're not helping your sister, this is the beginning where you may be able to truly be of help to somebody else. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because the only thing you can do is really help yourself. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But the mind tells you, "I have to save my sister." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And that's the OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And what you're saying is that is not necessarily true. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No. Ultimately, your sister is also responsible. It doesn't mean that one human being can not help another. But what is essential when we asked whether you can be of help or not to another human being, is there something in you that can bring about change in the consciousness of another human being? OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Unless some change has happened inside you, it can't happen. And though this may talk more generally about worry, is this is a problem for many, many people. They wake up in the middle of the night worrying. During the day, they go about worrying about this or that. What does it mean to worry? What does it mean? It means there is unconscious mind movement projecting itself, usually OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Into future. And you see how dreadful the future is going to be, what's going to happen. You see outcomes that are negative. Many things, of course, are never going to happen, but worry pretends to be necessary. You have to see very clearly OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Worry pretends to be necessary. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Pretends to be necessary.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Oh, I got that. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): You have to see that it serves no useful purpose. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. Worry pretends to be necessary, but serves no useful purpose. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And so once you see that it serves no useful purpose, you can sometimes may be able to step out of that and see, "Oh." And then become present. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. You can become present. If you can step out of the worry for a moment, you can become present enough to say, "What can I do now? How can I be now in this moment." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): For myself, for my sister or for whatever it is you need. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And the greatest gift you can give to somebody, especially somebody who is suffering like a sister, when you are with them what is your state of consciousness? Are you able to bring presence when you connect with your sister or any other human being that you want to help? Can you be present with them? Can you give them space to be? That's the healing. Healing. You can be an agent for healing of another. Not in the sense that, "I am going to heal you." OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Not believingthat would be ego again, "I'm going to heal you." No, simply be there as a conscious space of presence not wanting to do anything. Just being there as a conscious presence with another person. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's very hard for people. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I understand it's very hard for people.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And that's why we call it theit's a shift. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's a shift. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yeah. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, and I recognize how hard it is. I'm reading this book now from a guest who's coming on the show called Beautiful Boy. You might have heard of it. It's the story of the father. The father and the son both wrote a book together. It's going to be on the Oprah show later. His son was an addict for many years, and very difficult for parents especially. And as in this case, Melissa, a sister to a drug addict, to stand by and watch somebody daily attempt to kill themselves through drugs. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So, and acceptance is also an important part of that. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It's at the moment you need to accept OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Stop resisting it. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Stop resisting. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Not bringing the resistance always into the relationship.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because "whatever you fight, you strengthen, and what you resist, persists." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's at the top of page 75. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "Whatever you fight, you strengthen, and what you resist, persists." Why is that? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Because that's how theby opposing, you bringthis world works in terms of polarities. So if you strengthen one polarity, you immediately strengthen the other. That's OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Physics. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Physics. Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Exactly the same. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's physics. Okay. You say, "These days, you frequently hear the expression 'the war against' this or that, and whenever you hear that, you know that it's condemned to failure. There is a war against drugs, against crime, the war against terrorism, against cancer, against poverty, and so on." And despite the war against all of these things, every one of those things is bigger than ever. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That's right. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right. Because what "you fight, you strengthen, and what you resist, persists." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And then the implication, of course, is there is another way of dealing with things, with situations. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And that is to make peace with it.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Make peace with it. And then actiontake action. The action then comes out of a different state of consciousness. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): The action comes out of presence. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Presence. It's no longer reaction. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. It comes out of presence and not out of you being defensive about it. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That's right. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I got it. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And the action is much more powerful and effective when it's not defensive and not negative. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): We have Dana from Monrovia, Liberia. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Oh. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): On the phone. Hello. DANA (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Hello, Oprah. Hello, Eckhart. It's Dana. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Hi. It's Dana. Hi, Dana. DANA (AUDIENCE MEMBER): How are you? OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Oh, we're happy to talk to Monrovia. DANA (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Good evening. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Hello. DANA (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Oh, thank you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Your question?
DANA (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Shall I go ahead? OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, go ahead. DANA (AUDIENCE MEMBER): My questhank you. My question has to do with nonreaction in relationships. Would it be the same to say that the opposite of love is not hate, but rather indifference? Considering if one makes that situation not a personal one. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. That's your question. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. I don't fully understand the question. DANA (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Thank you. Would it be OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Don't leave, Dana. Go ahead. DANA (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Concerning nonreaction. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Uh-huh. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. DANA (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Would it be the same to say that the opposite of love is not hate, but rather indifference? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Now, do you mean that nonreaction is indifference? DANA (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Correct. That's what I'm asking. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Oh, okay. DANA (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Particularly if one doesn't take it in a negative context. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. I'm not sure what either one of y'all DANA (AUDIENCE MEMBER): You mean not letting negative consume one's person. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Well, nonreaction means that you recognize when another human being displays some sort of ego behavior, wants to be right or wants you to be wrong or accuses you of this or that. Many times the ego manifests in many different ways. You recognize that that is ego. And you don't react to it, which means you don't confuse this behavior with who that human being is. It means you allow the ego to be there without fighting that behavior. For example, I had Happened some years ago was an interesting example. I had a plumber come in to do some repair at my place. He was extremely aggressive and rude. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. The plumber? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): The plumber. And I treated him as if he were a noble guest, very polite and explained what needed to be done, because I recognized that perhaps he had been trapped in this pattern for years. Maybe it started with childhood when everybody around him was rude to him. So there was a deep-seated pattern of rudeness and unpleasant behavior and of regarding other people as enemies. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And I didn't react, because I recognized that as a dysfunction in him. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It wasn't him at all. So I simply accepted his behavior and pointed out this needs to be done and this. After 20 minutes, he was trained completely. He was suddenly, "Thank you." For the first time, perhaps. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Somebody was nice to him. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Somebody was nice because everybody else reacted to him in the same way that he acted. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): He got the reaction. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And this is how most human beings encounter their daily reality. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's the cab driver situation. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And for most people their daily reality isn't really a reflection of their own inner predominant inner state. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And so the enlightened part of ourselves, after having reading this book being awakened, we realize what you're saying here in Chapter 3, "Core of the Ego." You should be able to recognize the ego not only in yourself, but see it in other people. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): In other people. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So when you see that kind of reaction from someone. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You realize it's their ego. It's not them. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That's right. So it'sone could almost say it's like an illness. Like a mental OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So the presence in you then gets to respond to ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Relate to the presence in them. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Oh, you got to be really highly evolved to do that. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It's not indifference, by the way. This is not indifference. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): No, that's just
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And you're not indifferent. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's compassionate. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Compassion. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. DANA (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Understood, understood. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Understood. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): In fact it's DANA (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Yes. Thank you for that clarity. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Okay. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you. Thank you, Dana. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Now the question is, you say you need to be highly evolved. Well OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. Cause most people just react. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It is true to say. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That at first the reaction is so automatic when somebody behaves unconsciously to react in the same ways very automatic. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Now as people begin to become more aware of their egos, usually after it's happened, they become aware that they reacted in the old ego way. After it'safter the event. Then, after a while, in the middle of reacting to somebody's ego, you suddenly become aware that that's what you're doing. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Somebody just told me this last night. And this happens a lot, you know, with the airlines, where my goodness. If you can get from onefrom point A to point B on commercial airlines these days without losing your luggage or flights being canceled or sitting on the tarmac or whatever, and they were reading the book. And in the midst of, you know, schedule for the flight. I'm sure this has happened to many of you. Schedule for the flight, everything's fine, you get there, and there's no seat. There's no seat. And people, other people didn't have their seats. And people around them were just imploding. And this person said that they decided to remain calm. This is my godson, as a matter of fact. And people all around him were going nuts. And suddenly out of nowhere after about a half an hour, not out of nowhere, about a half an hour, the person behind the counter called the names. And of all the names they called, they called his who had been sitting their calm. Now they didn't know him from anybody else, but you know, it eventually worked out. Not saying that it always works out, but he realized after reading the book that it makes no sense to get crazy. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Not only that, but also it's true that things are much more likely to work out when you are in a harmonious state of consciousness and not in resistance. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Which brings us to page 77. "Do you want peace or drama?" You say we all want peace. "There's no one who doesn't want peace. Yet there's something else in you that wants the drama, wants the conflict." And whenever you're moving in the drama, you can, as we all can, I think now, a little bit anyway, detach from the thought, see yourself having the thought, recognize that you. The you, the I of "I am," is the awareness that you're having the thought. When you can see all the drama, just detach a little bit, you've done what? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That's the vital thing. To see it in the midst of it. To suddenly become aware that this is an old pattern in you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): An ego pattern in you. It may not even stop immediately, but at least suddenly there is a witnessing presence in the background. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. But the ego wants to complain. The ego wants to be resentful. The ego wants drama.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And to see that in oneself. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): One could call it almost, there is in humans something that we could call the addiction to unhappiness. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): When you are unhappy for whatever reason, once you are trapped in that energy of unhappiness, you don't want to get out. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right. Because your ego loves it. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. So there is an addiction toactually, on some level you enjoy your unhappiness. And when you can become aware of that. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Then suddenly, you're stepping out. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So let's talk about the power of awareness you talk about on page 78. "A power comes into your life that is far greater than the ego, greater than the mind. All that is required to become free of the ego is to be aware of it, since awareness and ego are incompatible." This is page 78, first paragraph. "Awareness is the power that is concealed within the present moment. This is why we may also call it Presence. And the ultimate purpose of human existence, which is to say your purpose, is to bring that power or that presence into this world." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That is why we're here. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. That is the universal, the impulse, the universal impulse, the evolution of consciousness. That is the
impulse behind the universe. The universe is moving toward the evolution of consciousness. And we are one manifestation of the evolution of consciousness into this world. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): We're one. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. There are many others. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Even a plant is a manifestation. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right, right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Of that already. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But our ultimate purpose of human existence is to bring that presence, that awareness, into the world, and to become more aware in our daily lives, so that, regardless of what you're doing in your form world, in your form life, that you recognize, as you say on page 79, "Can I sense my essential Beingness, the I Am, in the background of my life at all times?" ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "To be more accurate, can I sense the I Am that I Am at this moment?" ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And an easy step towards that is the inner acceptance of this moment as it is. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Without wanting it to be different or rejecting it or resisting it. If you can accept, if you can see that the primary thing in your life is the present moment because there's never anything else. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It's always now. So you must see if you can have a good relationship with the now because if you don't have a good relationship with the now, you don't have a good relationship with life. Because life is now.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So accepting this moment as it is can connect you with that dimension of depth in yourself. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And that is how we begin to quieten or quiet the go. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Is by being more fully present now. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That's the exit out of the ego, the now. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): The now is the hidden exit because the ego doesn't want you to know that. That there is an exit, and it's called, "now." OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Exit is the door out of the ego. The now is the door. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Is the exit. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): The now is the exit door. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Out of the ego. Yes, yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. And so whenever you find yourself complaining, whenever you find yourself, as we said last week, the need to fell supyou feel superior or inferior to someone else, you know that it's your ego. Whenever you recognize that this is my ego and can bring yourself to the present moment of what is going on now and can see yourself doing it. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. That is awakening. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. Ginger is a singer/songwriter living in Berlin and is calling us via Skype. Hello. GINGER (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Hi. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Berlin, Germany, hello. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Hello. GINGER (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Hi Eckhart. Hallo. Schne Gre aus Berlin. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I guess that meant hello. GINGER (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Yeah, exactly. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. GINGER (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Well, I feel like I am aware of the things that I do that are destructive, and I can't seem to stop them anyway. I feel like I label things that are bad for me, and then I resist them. Like eating fried food or drinking too much or relationships. I resist them, and I feel like it causes a source of anxiety. And sometimes the huge decisions in my life come easily, but these little things, little decisions every day, they pile up and become a source of anxiety. So my question is, how can we get to this inspired action and effortless doing, not only when it comes to the big decisions, but when it comes to making healthy choices in our everyday lives? OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Amen. Good question. Thank you, Ginger. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): How doyeah, causeyeah, I was saying this to GINGER (AUDIENCE MEMBER): I know I'm doing it. I just do it anyway. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. Yeah. Why does it have to be a struggle just to do the right thing in terms of, you know. For me it's food always. It's always about food. How can it become effortless? Isn't that your question, Ginger? GINGER (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Yeah.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And are you talking aboutfor me this would be about potato chips. What is this about for you? GINGER (AUDIENCE MEMBER): For me, it's red wine, french fries. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. A little red wine every now and then. GINGER (AUDIENCE MEMBER): And a few other things, of course, too. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. Okay. Go ahead. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So, you mean when you eat french fries. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And she knows that they're not so good for her. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And then there's a voice in the head that says you shouldn't be eating them. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. GINGER (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Nevertheless, you are eating them. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. GINGER (AUDIENCE MEMBER): A tennis match is more like it. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): A lot of eating, overeating, has a lot to do with the ego also. Because the ego lives in a constant state of not enough. It always seeks something else to fill itself. And usually it's experiences, to identify with this or that. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Things. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Things. But it's also the need for more, as I call it, that is built into the ego. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Sometimes can get transferred to the body, and then you experience it as the desire to eat much more than the body really wants. It's to take in more. So really to eat consciously, really, is the way out of it. For example, I would suggest that when you eat your french fries. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): French fries. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): To make a meditation out of it and eat them consciously without having a secondary entity in your head that says you shouldn't be eating them. Eat them fully and consciously, and at the same time feel how your body feels while you eat them and after you've eaten them. Then you bring some presence into it, and you may realize in some cases that the body doesn't actually want to eat them. It was the mind that wanted to eat the potato. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): But so, eat consciously. If you eat a sandwich, if you feel, if you go to the fridge. Sometimes people get up in the middle of the night. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): They open the door, and you reach in, and there's need for, "I need to get" OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): The body doesn't need it. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You're trying to feed something. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Feed something. Yes. And so. GINGER (AUDIENCE MEMBER): For me, it's also the anxiety that the resistance, not just for food, but things that I label as bad for me seem to cause a lot of anxiety OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): What he's saying is stop resisting. Actually after reading this book, I've been trying this lately. Exactly what you said. And this is what you'll find if you stop resisting it. Because the french fries are not bad. It's the thought in your head that has told you that the French fries
are bad. And if you do what he is recommending, if you sit and you consciously make it a meditation, what you will find is you won't eat, you know, two bags of french fries unconsciously. That you will enjoy every single french fry, and in the enjoyment and the pleasure, if you stop when it's no longer pleasurable, you know. It's no longer pleasurable after three or four or five. By the time you've eaten a whole bag of them, you don't even taste it anymore. So he's saying make it a meditation, be with it, feel it, sense it, allow your whole body to be with it, feel it, sense it. And when you're done with the pleasure of it, let it go. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That is what you're saying, correct? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Thank you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And that's with the red wine too. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. GINGER (AUDIENCE MEMBER): And other things as well, I suspect. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And other things as well. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): When I was in my OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. Be with it. Be with it. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. When I was in my 20s, as young people do, I would often get drunk. Nowadays, I still enjoy a glass of wine. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. You do. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): I enjoy it very much.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And I know after I've had one glass of wine, sometimes ask, "Does my body want another glass of wine?" And usually I cannot drink more than one glass. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It's very rare that I would drink two glasses of wine, because that's exactlythe body says, "No more." You can sense your body. It will often tell you whether it's right or not to eat or drink something. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, that's a very good point that you just made. I just had an epiphany. Cause you don't become overweight or even drunk or intoxicated as long as you are acting consciously. It's when you become unconscious that you eat too much, unconscious that you drink too much. Unconscious is when you become obsessively indulgent. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): With things. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. All these addictions are unconscious. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Are unconscious. Ginger from Berlin. Love that green you're wearing, girl. That's fantastic. GINGER (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Thank you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you. Thanks for joining us. GINGER (AUDIENCE MEMBER): Happy Saint Patrick's Day. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Enjoy your fries. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Enjoy. Yeah. Have a glass of wine. Consciously. Page 78, everybody, bottom paragraph. "What is spiritual realization? The belief that you are spirit?" You say no. That is a thought. "A little closer to the truth than the thought that believes you are who your birth certificate says you are, but still a thought." So, we're not spirit? I thought we were spirit. What is that saying? "That we are spiritual beings having a human experience?"
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, that's very good. But OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes, but we're not spirit. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No. That when we say we are "spiritual beings having a human experience," it is not yet the realization that we are. It's the belief that we are. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Oh, okay. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So there is a step that goes from the belief. Belief is stillit's a mental concept. It's a little closer, as I say, to believing that you are what your birth certificate says you are. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): But it's not the realization. No thought that you have about yourself is realization. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay, well this is another thing, you know. A lot of people are still very conflicted about this spirituality and their religion. And what I hear you saying, feel you saying in this book is, is that this book isn't about believing. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): This book is about what you come to know for yourself. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. What you come to feel for yourself. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And that what you're saying is that God, in the essence of all consciousness, isn't something to believe. God is. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): God is. And God is a feeling experience, not a believing experience.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That's right. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And if you'reand that your religion is a believing experience. If God for you is still about a belief, then it's not truly God. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's what you're saying. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. At best, to believe is a transitional thing. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That from there, you go on to the realization that there is no separation between you and God. Between you and the source of life. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That you are one with the source. And you can not realize that through thinking. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Believing. It's not a belief. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It's not a thought. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Not a thought. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It's a direct realization within yourself. And it's there in the gap between two thoughts. And, conceptually, you may not know anymore. You may not have an opinion of who you are anymore. And yet, a very deep level, there's a knowing that can not be put into words. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "So what is spiritualization? The belief that you are spirit? No, that's a thought. Closer to the truth than the thought that believes you are who are that your birth certificate says you are, but still a thought. Spiritualization is to see clearly." On the bottom of page 78, everybody. "Spiritual realization is to see clearly that what I perceive, experience, think, or feel is ultimately not who I am, that I cannot find myself in all those things that continuously pass away."
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. So you are the space for all those things. You are the consciousness. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): The awareness in which all those things, experiences, sense perceptions, thoughts, emotions come. They appear. You are Jesus says, "You are the light of the world." That means you are the consciousness in which the world appears, is seen. And the consciousness itself has no form. It is formless, and it nothing to do with time. It's the dimension of the timeless in yourself. Eternity is the religious term for it. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): For most religious people, when they use "eternity," it's a very abstract concept. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): "Eternity, what do I do with that?" Or they believe it's continuous time that never ends. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That would be extremely boring if youeternity, there's no end to time would become very boring. I wouldn't want things to go on forever, my life to go on forever, ever, ever. But finding the timeless dimension is a very different thing in yourself. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Timelessness is very different than eternity is you're saying. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): The true meaning of "eternity" is timelessness. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Is timelessness. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It's usually misinterpreted as meaning endless time. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): On and on and on and on. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yeah.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I got that. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So there is in every human being, underneath all the stream of thinking and underneath the emotions, there is that dimension where timelessness or eternity dwells. And that is the essence of who you are. And that is consciousness itself. And you can know it by realizing that you are the space for whatever happens in your life. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Space of consciousness. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Deep. I must say that's pretty deep there, Eckhart. We're on page 80, everybody. One of my favorite quotes in the entire book that actually I used in one of our ads in O Magazine. "Only the truth of who you are, if realized, will set you free." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Know who you are, and you are free. But know who you are doesn't mean that suddenly you have an answer in your head. There's a stillness, and in that stillness, when you accept that you don't know who you are, as I say somewhere in the book. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): When you completely accept that you've realized all the things that you thought you were is not really who you are, and then you come to a point where you don't know who you are, and if you can fully accept that you don't know who you are, you are closer to who you are than you were ever before. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "Once you realize and accept that all structures,'" page 81, "(forms) are unstable, even the seemingly solid material ones, peace arises within you. This is because the recognition of the impermanence of all forms awakens you to the dimension of the formless within." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's what you're calling timelessness. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "That which is beyond death. Jesus called it 'eternal life.'"
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Eternal life. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yeah. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So you believe what happens to us at death, when the body dies? You don't have a belief. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): I don't give it any thought. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You don't. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, did you ever think about it, Eckhart? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): I know that the essence of who I am, which is the essence of who you are, is indestructible. I know that directly, on a feeling level, and you can also know it even if you talk to a physicist. He will tell you that energy never gets destroyed. It can only OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Change forms. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Transform. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So whatever it is that animates this physical form, at some point, whatever it is that animates this physical for is going to no longer animate this form. And that is when you see a dead body. And when you see a dead body, you seea year and a half ago, both my parents died within the space of a few months. And I saw very clearly each timeI saw my mother's body lying there. A few months later, I saw my father's body lying in the coffin. And I realized the form was still there, but the essence of that being was not present. So the essence of their being was never the form. It was no longer there. And that which animates the form. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): The essence of that being was never the form.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Was never. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): The essence of that being inhabited the form. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, because OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And now it no longer inhabited the form. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. So you could see there was only a shell there. And that was such a clear realization. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. Many people who have seen their loved ones in the casket see that. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. So that which was the life within that form was always invisible. All you could ever see was the form. Maybe you could sense the life within the form. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Ah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): But the life is always invisible. And the life ultimately has no form itself. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And so you see, suddenly somebody dies, the essence is gone. The life within the form. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Is gone. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So what you're saying, again on page 79, is to be able to be in form and be able to sense the formlessness of yourself. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): To be in form and to sense that there is an essential beingness or formliness, formlessness, the I am in the background of our life at all times. And that awareness, that
formlessness, is what can, can hear, see, sense the thoughts that are going on all the time. And there's a little space, just a space, between the thoughts and the awareness of the thoughts. And that is where we, I, reside. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. You are the awareness. You are consciousness. Appearing as a person for a little while, but in essence you are consciousness. And consciousnessas consciousness, you are timeless. You are eternal in the sense of timeless. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And when the form itself is lying there in the casket, that timeless formlessness has gone where? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Transformed toeither to join with the source or to go through further experiences, experiences of awakening. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): In ways that our mind cannot even comprehend. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. Before we say goodbye, I want to thank all of you around the world for making this remarkable experience possible. Eckhart and I will be here again next Monday at 8 p.m. Central. This third class will be available on demand tomorrow for free here at Oprah.com. And if you want to download a podcast of any of our three classes, you can do that tomorrow at Oprah.com and iTunes. So what did you want to say in conclusion about the core of the ego? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): The core of the ego. The ego, sometimes we look at it as if it were an entity. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): But really, it's just a form of unconsciousness. It appears to be an entity sometimes. It is now threatening. Never regarded as an enemy or something that you need to get rid of. It's only to be recognized for what it is. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So, and then the ego has fulfilled its purpose. It has taken you to that point of awakening. So in order to awaken, humans havewere in the state of oneness with the source when they first came here, and then they lost themselves.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): They lost themselves in thinking. They lost themselves in the mind. They lost themselves in the ego. And then they reached the stage where this state of being lost produces so much suffering that this dream of life becomes a nightmare, and they start waking up. This is the stage that we have reached now. So as we wake up, we regain the state that we once had, that we lost. The state of oneness with life, oneness OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So we're waking up now. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Oneness with the source. But when we regain it, we regain it as a deeper level because we are conscious of it now. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Wonderful. Thank you. Can't wait till next week because, you know, this week we're talking about all the things that form the core of the ego. How the ego loves to complain and it loves to be right and it loves drama and all of that. Next week we talk about roleplaying, all the many faces of the ego. How so many of us believe that we are the roles that we play. That's next week. Thanks, everybody. Another night. Yay. That's good. Good. That's good.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Welcome, everybody, to week number four of our New Earth Web class. Thank you again for joining us as we come together to study and to discuss our 61st Book Club selection, Eckhart Tolle's A New Earth. I'm just so happy that so many of you around the world are making time, you're giving time to yourself every week to be awakened and we're all doing this together. It is really my deepest hope that our collective consciousness will begin to create a powerful transformation not only in our individual lives, but in the future of our planet. So welcome to you all, and welcome, sir. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Thank you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. A good week for you? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, very good, thanks. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Very good. So let's see what we've now started as a tradition. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): A moment of silence. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And the question is where to put our attention. And this time, I suggest we put our attention into the feeling of aliveness within. What I call the inner body to feel that it's actually live inside your hands. A good place to start is always with the hands, to feel, "Yes, I can feel somehow that there is an aliveness in here." The cells are alive. And that's the beginning of feeling, being able to feel the entire inner body, the energy field as a global sense of aliveness. And just put our attention there rather than have it in the head. And then we can enter actual stillness because stillness doesn't happen until the mind becomes still. Usually, the mind doesn't stop until you take attention away from it and put it somewhere else. So we're putting attention into the body. And so we can go into stillness just for half a minute or so. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you very much. Let us begin here on Chapter 4, which is a very long chapter. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): When you wrote this, you must have been at it for a while.
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ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And in way, it reflects all the main themes in the book that actually are already contained in that chapter. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. The chapter is called "Role-Playing: The Many Faces of the Ego." So before we really begin I'd like to take a moment and talk about one of the most frequently asked questions that we've received by far. So many people who are committed to the book and becoming aware of a new way of thinking, a new way of consciousness, want to know how they can relate to people in their lives who are not yet on this path and don't think they need to be. Sometimes it's a coworker or a friend or even a spouse who all have said to us on many of your e-mails, and it can feel very divisive. I mean we got an e-mail from a gentleman who says, "Listen, my wife isn't interested in this. I don't know what's going to happen to our relationship." So that question actually came up as one of the last questions from Qatar, the very first session we had. But it's an ongoing question that a lot of people, the more they become engaged in the book, are feeling and wanted your response to. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. The main thing is the shift can only happen inside you. So not to expect other people to also change or to expect or say, "I cannot change unless somebody close to me also changes." The main thing is to take responsible for your own state of consciousness and allow other people, especially people that you are close to, to be where they are, not to demand that because something is happening inside you and you're beginning to change, not to demand that others should also change. Change does not come about in others by trying to make them change. The most powerful way of bringing about change in others is not trying to bring about change in the other but to completely accept the other as he or she is. So that's, that is absolutely vital. There are even schools of psychotherapy that recognize that. So you give the other person, complete acceptance. And that part of this change that's happening in us is that we step out of the judgmental mind that continuously judges the other. So we step out of that, and if we step out of the judgmental mind, we're able to simply accept the partner, close friend, the family member, a relative. This is where they are at right now. They are still going for their old behavior patterns. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm-hmm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): What has changed is you are no longer resisting their pattern and reacting to, and by reacting reinforcing their pattern. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right, that's right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So you're not taking part in that game anymore.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So part of your change has to be your willingness not to judge, you know, to sit back and to be an observer in your own life, and then to more clearly see the ego in others as you also see it in yourself. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Don't judge it. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Just know that that's what it is. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And don't mistake what you're observing, the behavior that people manifest. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): As, as them. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Not, that's not who they are. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Ay yiy yiy. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And that's a vital distinction, because if you mistake that for who they are, then you will perpetuate that kind of behavior. So that's not, it won't work. Acceptance is vital. Acceptance. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And isn't it sort of like, I mean all of you who've asked that question, it's kind of like when people join the church or are, quote, born again, or, you know, we've heard about being born again in the church or you find Jesus or you find Buddha or you discover a new way of being for yourself and now you want everybody to go to Jesus ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): and you want everybody to believe what you believe. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That is part of your ego that now wants people to believe what you believe. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And so that's a trap one can fall into even with this teaching which isn't really based on belief at all. So it's not a new belief. We're not trying to find some new belief, it's going beyond, beyond the thinking mind, into awareness. But there is always the danger when you discover something new; you want to talk about it to others. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Want to share with everybody. Well, that's how we ended up with this webcast because ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I wanted to share it with other people. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And sometimes it works. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Because sometimes the other people is totally ready and OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): accepting and say, "Wow, I never realized that." But they recognize it from within because the readiness is there. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): But the readiness is not there in everybody. So some people buy copies of A New Earth or The Power of Now for their friends or relatives and then give them out and sometimes they are disappointed when the other person says, "It doesn't make sense to me at all." OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Doesn't make sense to me. Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It means they're not yet ready and that's fine. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Maybe they put it on the shelf and maybe ten years later they're ready, quite possible. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. Absolutely, absolutely. So now for classroom I wanted to get that question out because it come up over and over again on our message board. So now we're ready for class number four. Tonight, we're going deeper into identifying the ego in all of its forms. Chapter 4, "Role-Playing And The Many Faces of the Ego." Let me start by saying that I think the essence, it's a long chapter. So we have a lot of to cover in a short period of time, these 90 minutes. But I think that the essence of this chapter is what you say on page 104, everybody. That "you are a human being. What does that mean? Mastery of life is not a question of control, but of finding a balance between human and Being. Mother, father, husband, wife, young, old, the roles you play, the functions you fulfill, whatever you doall that belongs to the human dimension. It has its place and needs to be honored, but in itself it is not enough for a fulfilled, truly meaningful relationship or life. Human alone is never enough, no matter how hard you try or what you achieve." I just love that sentence. I love it so much I wrote, "Wow." Yeah, I wrote,"Wow." "Human alone is never enough, no matter how hard you try or what you achieve. Then there is Being. It is found in the still, alert presence of Consciousness itself. The Consciousness that you are. Human is form. Being is formless. Human and Being are not separate, but interwoven." That's the essence, to me, of this chapter. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And you could say the essence of the whole teaching in a way. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It's a good way of putting it. So, and, of course OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "Human alone is never enough, no matter how hard you try or what you achieve." And that is the essence of why people are in such suffering and such struggle and such, you know, angst against themselves in life, is it not? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And it's why they play roles because the ego plays roles because there's unawareness that within you there is the source of all power. So people who are out of touch with the power within or the place where all power resides, the aliveness itself, consciousness itself, then they feel a sense of lack. Why are they not in touch with it? Because they are not present. They are not in the present moment because the present moment is that entry point into that place of power within. If you are not present, you don't realize that there is a source of power within, and then you believe that you need to get secondary power from someone or some situation or other people. Then, the ego plays roles to manipulate the environment and other people to get what it thinks it needs, not realizing that all the things it thinks will give it the power that it seems to lack, all that is already within you, if you could only be present in the now.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I got it. Okay. So the question is, how not to lose ourselves in the human dimension. How not to? By being present in now. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And by realizing that whenever you lose yourself, realize OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): In the human dimension. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): In the human OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's all the stuff that being human brings with it. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. On the most primordial level, losing oneself means losing oneself in that continuous stream of thinking that goes through people's heads. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So you, it drives you along. It takes all your conscious attention. Remember we started to tell you it's taking attention away from mind and putting it into the body. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right, right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Another thing you can do is take attention away from thinking and put it into sense perceptions and really look and listen and touch things. Like an alertness arises. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You know what I found by doing this, I don't know about the rest of you, but I have found by being more present, just doing that one exercise, putting yourselfif I'm walking along a path in the woods near my house, be there and not be, you know, in my head thinking about what I need to do. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Just to be there. And what I found is, I don't know if you all are realizing this too, you are just less stressed. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Less stressed.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You're just less stressed. You're calmer. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And you don't carry the heavy burden of a personality or meaning with a burden of past and future. "My problematic future, my problematic past." You're much more, you're light and free when you walk in presence. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. But my hairdresser Andre asked me this, this morning. So I'm going to ask you. Then how do you plan for anything if you're not thinking about the future? How do you get anything done? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): You plan in the present moment. When the time comes to plan, and the time is not when you're walking in the woods, and when you're walking in the woods the time is to be present. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Unless you want to go to the woods to plan. You could go to the woods to plan. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): You could. Yes, you could. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): But it's much more likely your planning is going to be fruitful if it is preceded by a period of presence and stillness. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Oh, right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Any mind activity is much more likely to be beneficial and to be creative if it's preceded by presence and stillness. And then you apply the mind and say, "Okay, what do I have to do today?" And then you make a list. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So if you're going to be in the future, do that as a concentrated event ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): or experience. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Say now I'm going to sit and plan. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And don't then OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Think about tomorrow. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Once you've done that, then you know, "This is what I have to do," so that you're now continuously in the next moment, you don't project yourself, you play mental movies about what you're going to say when that situation arises. So you can, you trust in life that whatever it is that you need when the future comes will be there. So that's the, as far as practical matters are concerned, the future is simply something that you use, like I call it clock time. You make an appointment for tomorrow. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And you deal with tomorrow, tomorrow. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. So you don't continuously project yourself away from the now OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): to some future, believing that it's more, going to be more important than the now. It's not. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because what you say on page 122, "Anybody who is one with what he or she does is building the new earth." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And that's how you do it. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Being one with what you're doing means being total in what you do, so that the main focus of your attention is not where you want to get to. You know where you want to get to. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): But the main focus of your attention is on the actual doing now. So this is what, the energy flows fully into this. The energy doesn't, is not diverted from what you are doing now through mental dysfunction because you're wanting to get there. Because then whatever you're doing will be stressful.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because whatever you give your 100 percent attention to is going to be better anyway. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Absolutely. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): There was a Zen master, he was watching somebody in a competition, archery, and a man was trying hard to win this competition, but he couldn't make it and then somebody asked the Zen master, "What's he doing wrong?" And the Zen master said, "His need to win drains him of power." OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Wow. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And so his need to win in some future, he wants to have some future moment where he's going to be fulfilled. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Wow. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So his attention is not totally in the now. So the now, where all power resides OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Wow. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): this power that resides in the now cannot flow then into what you are doing. The openness isn't there. Because to have mastery in any endeavor, whatever it is, you need to be total in what you do. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's what athletes know, the great ones. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. They, and then they, when they enter it they call it "the zone." OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. There was this great article this week, as a matter of fact, those who saw it on Tiger Woods in USA Today, saying that he's perhaps the greatest athlete of all times because that's what he knows how to do is to focus and be 100 percent present. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's just him and that ball.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Absolutely, yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. And the golf course. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. So another question that was on the message boards a lot. Last week, when Kidada from California called and was saying, was on Skype, and she was saying that, as a young person, she's thinking about the future and thinking about wanting to have a career and husband and so forth. I think a lot of people felt unsatisfied by your response. I heard that and a lot of people were like, "I feel the same way Kidada feels." A lot of people are wondering where the passion goes, where the ambition goes and how passion and ambition, which is what I think Kidada was saying ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes, okay. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): with this new awakening. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Cause if we now just, we're just all so awakened and that we become passive people? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No. The passion is much greater when you are totally focused on what you are doing now. There will be, the passion will become stress. The more you are focused on where you want to get to, the more the passion will degenerate into stress. You may still have high energy but it's, there's a lot of negative energy that comes in. So if you want to remain truly in your power, then you need to be total, and that applies to the smallest thing that you do during the day. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Because even great endeavors consist of small steps. Even the greatest thing. You are doing wonderful work, but every day that you spend consists of small steps. You arrive in the studio, you get OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): dressed, you get ready to speak on one sentence at a time. It all consists of, one needs to be present as you are, that's where the power comes from every moment and not look to some future moment that promises some kind of greater fulfillment. That is the delusion. It does not mean you don't have a plan. You can have a plan, "I want to achieve to build up a business. I want to do this or that." OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): But the main focus must be in the doing, and if the main focus is in the doing now, that's the passion is there and the deep enjoyment is there and an intensity of energy. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): An intensity of energy? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Now people often OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Say that again what the Zen master said, that his desire to win.... ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): His desire to win drains him of power. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Desire to win drains him of power. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): His need to win drains him of power. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Need to win drains him of power. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So the being present.... OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You're just focused on whatever is necessary in that moment. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): In that moment. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I'm sure that struck a lot of people, that Zen master quote then. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Cause you're so, you got to win, you got to make it, you got to succeed, got to got to got to and that's draining energy from you. Instead, we should be focused on this moment, this step and then the next step and then the next step. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That's right. Now, you may win, if you try very hard or very stressed, occasionally it happens that you do win, but it's not really worth it because you begin more and more depleted. After a while, you lose the joy of life. If you spend five years of stress and finally you achieve what you wanted, is that worth it? OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Enjoyment is there. "Am I losing? Is there joy in what I'm doing? Is there an aliveness, an intensity?" That's the question. People believe, sometimes, high energy in our civilization, when there's high energy in what you do, often people believe there must be stress. They cannot imagine high energy in what you to without stress. Because that's how we are conditioned because we are always conditioned to look to the next thing. But there's a more powerful state of high energy, an intensity of energy. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I was going to say where the energy is intense and focused. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Now, no stress at all. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. No stress at all. Well, let's go to our New Earth study group watching our webcast at Borders on Michigan Avenue. Hello in Chicago. Hi, everybody. Hi again. All right, Shereen has a question. Hello, Shereen. SHEREEN: Hi, Oprah. Hi, Eckhart. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Hello. SHEREEN: We're thrilled to be here. My question is for you Eckhart. You say on page 126 that constant alertness is required to not let the ego take it over. And I was wondering, do you, are you in constant alertness yourself, and do you ever struggle staying alert? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): I'm usually present in the now. The intensity varies according to the situation. If I'm just, I'm sitting alone at home, it's just a background of stillness, and there may be thoughts arising, I may be doing this or that. So the, and then if a situation arises, the more challenging the situation is, the stronger the sense of presence that arises. That's a strange thing. I realized that the first time when after this I underwent this shift. I was actually in a cinema, and I was watching a film. It was a Japanese film about the end of the world. And I saw all these things; everything was going up in flames and
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): This is on the film? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): In the film. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And I suddenly found that was becoming more and more peaceful and present inside. The intensity of aliveness as if inside something was saying inside me, "There is no death." There is, but that's the interpretation. Really, for the first time I realized when things go wrong outside, the present intensifies. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): When everything is fine, there's just a background of presence. And that's wonderful. So because then the challenges that come into your life, two things can happen when a challenging situation or a challenging person comes into your life. Either the challenge drags you into old, conditioned ego reactions. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): For example an angry person provokes an angry reaction in you. So this means the other person or the situation drags you to their level of consciousness or unconsciousness. That's one way, one thing that can happen. The other possibility is that any challenge wakes you up more. So you become more intensely present when there's a challenging situation. And look at a very simple situation, which is not really challenging, but for some people it is. You're sitting in a traffic jam. Not moving, you have to get somewhere, but it's not moving. So many people would go into negativity at that point. They get stressed; they get upset. The body gets tense. So that situation then, you react in the old way. And perhaps a few minutes ago you were at home very still and present and it felt good and you were looking at the tree and the flowers. So you get in the car, and the moment the first challenge happens, it can drag you down into unconsciousness. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): But there's another possibility. You can be alert and recognize that situation as the first challenge of the day. Then you say, "Okay, yeah, I can either go into reaction or I can go into more presence." And suddenly, you're in the same situation, nothing's moving. Fumes, cars. And suddenly you become completely present in that situation.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): There's an exercise, Shereen, in the workbook that we have for this chapter where we talk about being, there's two. The transparency. Can you describe that? Becoming transparent. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. When you react, when you react against a situation, whatever it is, something irritating. It could be somebody screaming, children screaming, an irritating noise. Immediately when that happens, it's almost as if you were a wall and whatever the irritations were hitting this wall inside you. And it hurt because something inside you gets hit. Now, as a practice, what you can do is imagine yourself being transparent. So what before was hitting this wall inside you and that was painful, that was the resistance that, "This shouldn't be happening. That's painful." Now imagine yourself being transparent and the irritating thing passes through you. You can do it. I mean, for example, one of the most irritating noises is perhaps a drill that goes OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): They break up the road [makes noises]. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Grrrrr. And so practice with that, become transparent to that. Feel the noise passing through you, it's wonderful. And suddenly in the very same situation that before would have provoked a negative reaction in you, you actually become more present and more peaceful. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So the very thing that would have made you react, now puts, makes you more present. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Makes you more present. Also you talk about the deep lake, the deep lake effect. Would you describe that? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. So the lake, if you're imagining a vast lake. The surface of the lake changes all the time according to the weather, according to the wind. Sometimes it's rough; sometimes it's very still. But even when it's rough, if you imagine you are the lake and whatever happens in your life, the external situations of your life are the surface of the lake. External situations change continuously. Sometimes it's rough; sometimes it's fine. It's very still. But no matter if they are rough, the surface, the depth of the lake
remains always undisturbed and you are the pool, the lake in its depth. So your external life is the surface of things, surface reality. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Your ego. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Ego for the world of form. And included in the surface reality is even all your thoughts. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Because what we're talking about is the inner depth is deeper than your thoughts and your emotions. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And your presence is the bottom of the lake. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Is the lake, is the full lake. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And it's wonderful when you begin to realize that your inner state is no longer dependent on and determined by OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): What's going on on the surface. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Got it. Got it. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And that's incredible freedom, that's true freedom. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): You can arrive at that place even if you were in a prison cell. And I've had letters from prison. People have written to me and said, "We are free. I am free. I have found that place where the inner state is no longer dependent on what's happening outside." Of course, the prisoner would still prefer to be outside. On that level, fine. But OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): deep down there is freedom from external conditions. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because you are connected to the beingness of yourself. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): The consciousness of yourself. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And you can use the word "being," you can use the word "consciousness." You can use the world, a lot of people use the word "soul." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Or "inner being." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "Higher self." The word doesn't matter. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): The word doesn't matter. Thank you Shereen and everybody at Borders. SHEREEN: Thank you, thank you very much. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you. Very alert. So let's get into this chapter. You say that we can assume that the ego is at play "whenever we feel superior or inferior to anyone else." Now, I know this is true. When you see the person who is the biggest jerk out there, you know, people who act with such a sense of superiority and arrogance, I know that that is because they are really feeling inferior. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But it's still hard to deal with. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But what surprised me is that you say that often people who are also shy are also acting out of their egos. And you say, "Whenever you feel superior or inferior to anyone, that's the ego in you." Why is that? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Well, if you're shy, then what you fear is to be found wanting. But so you're not, you dare not OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So the fear is that the attention may take the form of disapproval or criticism. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): You're afraid of that so because you're afraid of that, whatever the disapproval or the criticism would represent an injury of your mentally made sense of self, which is the ego. So it would, the image that I have of myself as the very capable person or whatever it is that I'm trying to uphold, if I, if I encounter criticism, the ego immediately will be hurt. And so a shy person would not dare to say anything because they're afraid of ego loss. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Afraid of ego loss. Got it. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And so because sometimes that's mistaken for an egoless person. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But it's not. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It's not. And deep down inside, the shy person or this person who is suffering from this sense of inferiority, there's the desire, the unexpressed desire to be superior. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Wow. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And inside the person who acts superiorwho seems to have a big, confident egois always the hidden fear that he might be inferior. And his whole acting out is to compensate for that hidden fear of being inferior. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. "Behind every positive self-concept is the hidden fear of not being good enough."
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "Behind every negative self-concept is the hidden desire of being the greatest or better than others." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And where does self-esteem fit into that? What is real self-esteem? What would true self-esteem look like? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Well, first there is the ego self-esteem. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Which is really, even if you have high ego self-esteem, as we've just seen, there's always hidden fear underneath it. It's always there to compensate for the fear you feel of not being good enough or perhaps failing. So you need to play a role of being big to compensate for the fear of failure that's deep down. But that's usually the world calls it, he has, he has, the world would say, "He or she has high selfesteem." People who have big egos. But the world OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right . ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): doesn't realize that that's not true self-esteem. True self-esteem goes much deeper. It's finding the source of power and aliveness deep inside. We talked about the lake. Realizing that, within the depth of your being, there is that continuous source of intense aliveness and power, which is the stillness out of which everything comes. The potential, the unexpressed potential for all form is there for every human being. You have to become still. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So true self-esteem is realizing that that sense of being, that presence is there? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It comes out of the stillness. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That it comes out of the stillness, and that presence in me is the same as the presence in all people. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And when you recognize that and act from that space within yourself, that is when you have true self-esteem. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That's true self-esteem, and self-esteem then is not, no longer derived from the belief that you are better than somebody else. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And so you are not attached to the labels or the roles that you play. And you speak about the many various roles that everybody has. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And then you're no longer devastated by criticism or get very angry when you're criticized as the ego does. The ego is either totally devastated when you get, or it gets very angry when it gets criticized, this self-image. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But you know there's a role that most, you know, or, women in our society and all societies play is that role of mother. Which is a very, which is more than just a role. I mean, it's real. It's not just a role . ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. So we need to differentiate between the function that you need to fulfill in this world for a while. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So if you have a child, your function is to be the mother and to fulfill the function of being the mother, which, of course, is looking after the child. Sometimes set limits or the child is allowed to do and so on. That's all fine. Now, if you become too identified with your function, then the function turns into a role. And then you cannot let go of the role, and that gets stuck to you, and even when the child grows up and becomes a teenager, you still behave as if your child were small, and you still try to control and try to protect when it's no longer appropriate. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I got it. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Because you're stuck with a role then. So sometimes, when children become adults, the adult children are still treated by their parents, parents who are stuck in the role of parents. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Cause they can't let go of the role.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. So they believe unconsciously that they need to continue to protect and ultimately control what the child does. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Because you don't parent the child the same at every age. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Absolutely. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yeah. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And so they've lost sight of the function that they had as mother to be guide and to direct and to ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): correct and to help and to protect. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And they want to carry that in to the future ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because they're attached to the role. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And it's not only when children grow up, even when the children are already still small OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): if you are completely identified with this role of mother, then also it can become obsessive. So you might become too controlling, or overprotective. Certain functions become overemphasized. You go too far in fulfilling these functions. So what was good initially is looking after the child, protecting the child, can become too much. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. I got it. Tonight, actress Jenny McCarthy is joining us. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Ah. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. Via Skype. Hi, Jenny. JENNY MCCARTHY: Hi. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): How are you? Do you know that when I was reading this book, Jenny, when I was reading my book. Here it is. My book's all kind of torn up now, but when I was reading this book on page 104, I wrote, when I read, "As you look at, listen to, touch, or help your child with this or that, you are alert, still, completely present, not wanting anything other than that moment as it is. In this way, you make room for Being. In that moment, if you're present, you're not a father or mother. You are the alertness, the stillness. You are the Being behind the doing." I wrote "Jenny McCarthy" because that reminded me so much of what you had said about your function as a mother. JENNY MCCARTHY: Yes, absolutely. You know, I read this book when it first came out, and that was one of my big wake-up calls. Realizing that when I was with Evan, all I needed to do was just be with Evan. And our relationship bloomed like you wouldn't believe, the love connection was there. He was getting fulfilled because he knew, even when Evan wasn't able to speak. This is when Evan still wasn't able to use words. Energetically, he felt that I was with him, that I was being with him. And I'm so grateful, Eckhart, that you taught me that. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So did you have a question? Or do you JENNY MCCARTHY: I do. I do have a question. Okay. It's long, so bear with me. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. JENNY MCCARTHY: Bear with me. One very common emotion that I have personally experienced and that I have seen in many mothers is this emotion called guilt. Mothers today experience a few different forms of guilt and I'm going to explain three different versions where I'm sure moms listening right now, one of them will say, "That's my guilt." OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah.
JENNY MCCARTHY: The first one is the 9-to-5 working mom feels guilty for leaving the baby with the nanny all day. The second one is the stay at home mom feels guilty for getting bored playing with her, you know, her son or daughter all day long. And sometimes you can only play choo-choo so long and you can't do it anymore, and you feel guilty for not wanting to do that. And the last one being, and this one I can really connect to, the thousands of mothers I've met who have children with autism carry a huge amount of guilt with them. That's hard for me to get out, sorry. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Take your time. JENNY MCCARTHY: I haven't cried yet in one interview, so I'm sorry. But, a huge amount of guilt that it's in some way their fault, our fault that our child became autistic. So my question is, can you offer some insights as to how we can look at things differently from a different perspective on how to alleviate this guilt that we carry as mothers? OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Nine-to-5 guilt, choo-choo guilt and feeling guilty because your child has autism or whatever your child has and that you are somehow responsible. Thanks Jenny, this was so well said. JENNY MCCARTHY: Thank you. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Before I say anything, I read your book while it was still in manuscript form. You gave it to me, and I was very impressed by what you did with your child, the courage that you had where other people would have succumbed and fallen into negativity or self-pity. You were able to turn it all around and make it into something very positive, at the same time helping many other people, not helping your child, but helping many other people JENNY MCCARTHY: Thank you, Eckhart. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Now, and you still feel guilty. Of course, that's the structure. After all this wonderful work that you have done with your son, it's amazing isn't it, that there are certain structures in the human mind that operate no matter how much good you do. They carry, the structures carry on playing themselves out, and they are part of the what I call not the content of the ego, but the structure of the ego. So if you, nobody could have done a better job than you with your boy. In addition, helping many others writing that book. And yet, you feel, it's not that you feel guilty, there's a certain structure in their thought processes that produces the feeling of guilt. And the other two examples that you gave; there's the mother that has a job 9 to 5. The child is with the nanny, and the mother feels guilty about that, cannot accept that this is how it is and the other mother at home playing with the child. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Choo-choo.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Feels guilty about not doing more in the world or what so. Whatever it is, if you don't tackle or recognize the structure in your mind for what it is, then you will always believe that the answer to solving this question lies in the realm of content. In other words, content is the situation. So if I change the situation, perhaps I won't feel guilty anymore. This would be if you think that this so-called problem, it's not a real problem; it's a mind-created problem. If you believe that this problem can be solved on an external level by changing something that you do, it will not because no matter what situation you go into, the guilt will come back. Because in this world, you are limited, you can't do everything. You either do this or you do that. But you cannot be both at home and at work at the same time. So the mind, no matter what situation you go into, will bring out the same structures. So unless you are very alert and you recognize that these are egoic mind structures, nothing to do with content, then you realize that what the ego, one of the jobs of the ego is to blame others. Another job of the ego is to make yourself feel guilty. Both of these things strengthen your sense of identity. They are negative senses of identity. And the ego loves to have a strong sense of identity, and no sense of identity is stronger than the negative one, where you condemn yourself for something. And JENNY MCCARTHY: Wow. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): so and you can see from an objectively speaking, it doesn't make sense to feel guilty in your case and in many other people's cases. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. Because if you have to work 9 to 5 to provide for your child ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): and make, you know, a safe home for your child and food on the table for your child ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): You are doing the best you can. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): you're doing the best you can. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And your mind doesn't, your mind works according to its old conditioning. So recognize when those thoughts come, recognize that these are not actual valid thoughts that are actually concerning a true situation. They are thoughts generated by the ego. And if you can recognize them as thoughts generated by the ego, structural, not content-based, then in the moment of recognition, they begin to lose their power over you. They will try to come in. It's not that you can't do it just for once; they will try to come in the next day.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Cause you, Jenny, wrote that book. Obviously, I read that book too because you were here and shared the book, you know, with our audience. You, you know, refused to take no for an answer. You fought for Evan. You did the best you knew how to do, and when you didn't know, you sought other answers to figure out the best to do. So there is JENNY MCCARTHY: Right. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): a part of you, the part of you that is really you, right, Eckhart? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): that knows that. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): True? True, Jenny? JENNY MCCARTHY: True, absolutely. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. And that little crazy talk in your head is just that. Crazy talk in your head. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That's a good expression. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. But crazy talk in your head. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yeah. JENNY MCCARTHY: It really, I just had a huge awakening moment when he said that within me. So I get it, absolutely. That's a wow. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's a wow. Thanks, Jenny. JENNY MCCARTHY: That's a wow. Thank you both so much. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Say hello to my palsy walsy, Jim. JENNY MCCARTHY: I will. He sends his love to you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. He sent me flowers after he was on for Horton Hears A Who and said
JENNY MCCARTHY: I know. I made him. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Oh, you made him? Okay. His note said, "From your palsy walsy." Okay, thanks. Thanks a lot. Dionne is calling from Port of Spain, Trinidad. Dionne, what's your question? DIONNE: Hi, Oprah. Hi, Eckhart. It's nice talking to you. Thanks for having me on. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Nice talking to you. DIONNE: My question is, although I'm now aware of some of the rules that are played, it's still really easy to slip back into them sometimes, and I'm at the stage where I recognize that I've been playing a role after the moment has passed. But I'd like to know how do I recognize it in the moment before it happens, especially in those unexpected moments? OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): About playing a role did you say? DIONNE: Yes, yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. DIONNE: Yeah, yeah. Because sometimes I'm aware of a role, but I'm only aware after the moment has passed and have slipped back into some of the roles that I recognize. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. DIONNE: I'm just trying to figure out how do I stay in the moment and recognize the roles before it happens so I don't slip back into the same old thing. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Oh yes. This is a very common thing that happens to people as they grow in awareness. At first, the awareness does not reach themany of the conditioned behavior patterns. The awareness at first, and this applies to many, many peopleI've heard so many timespeople in whom the awareness begins to grow, this dimension we call presence or awareness. At first, the awareness does not necessarily flow into all parts of their lives. There are certain behavior patterns that remain as they are, but the awareness comes in after they've happened. So in this case, in an interaction that you have with other people, you play a certain conditioned role without knowing it, so you are the role. When it's over and you go away from that situation, suddenly you realize, "Oh gee, I did it again. I played that role again." Whatever the role is. And that is how awareness at first comes in, in many cases, after the event. And
retrospectively, the presence or the awareness recognizes the old pattern after it's happened. And what then tends to happen, and I believe this is going to happen to you because I've seen it in so many people, the time gap between the event and the awareness gets shorter. So what then happens is the old pattern operates still, you play the role, and immediately afterwards, you realize, "Oh, I've played it again." But there was virtually no time gap anymore. Immediately afterwards you realize it. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So that means you're awakening, right? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You get closer and closer so the time gap is shorter and shorter. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): The next step, the next thing that happens is in the middle of playing a role, you suddenly realize, "Oh, I'm playing that role again." So the awareness has come, and you're still doing it, but then you know that you're doing itan enormous difference. So you're not just playing the role. There is the other dimensioncomes in at the time of playing the role or whatever the behavior pattern may be, and you realize, "I'm doing it again." And that's wonderful too. And the next step is, it's amazing, it's the same pattern as I've observed in thousands of people. The next step is, just before you are about to enter into some conditioned pattern like role-playing, the awareness is there, and you can feel the impulse inside you of wanting to play the role. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You can stop yourself. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And you can then say, "I don't need to play that kind of role." OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I don't need to play the role. Well, let's clarify what we mean by roleplaying. Thank you so much, Dionne from Port of Spain, Trinidad. DIONNE: Thank you. Thank you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Thank you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Let's clarify what we mean by roles because I think it's confusing to some people who say, "Well, listen, I am a doctor, I am a teacher, I am a lawyer, I am a store clerk, I am a"that. Those are labels. And what is the difference between the job functions that we have and the so-calledand roles, you know? And the roles that we play.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): I met a woman, middle-aged, and she talked to me in a certain way. And I asked, are you a schoolteacher? And she said, "Now, how did you know that I'm a schoolteacher?" [wags finger] OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): She said that. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): She wasbecause she had already, she talks to people as if she were talking to the children at school. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So at (unintelligible), she said, how did you know? She was pointing a finger. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay, okay. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): You naughty boy, how did you know that? OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes, yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Of course that's how I knew it because she had become completely identified with her function. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So the role took her over. She couldn't leave her function behind after work. Even inside her family, she behaved like a teacher. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You say when you adjust the way you interact based upon who you're talking to; you're playing a role. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, that, also. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So do we talk to everyone the same? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No. Most people, if theybut you need to have some power of self-observation, which is another word for awareness.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, childrenwe talk to children differently. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Friends differently than we do a head of state. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, or a so-called important person and a so-called not important person. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): The janitor in a building different than you speak to your boss. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And this is very interesting to observe in oneself. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yourself. Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Because you need to observe it in yourself, otherwise you won't know that you're doing it. And you can only observe it in yourself if there's some awareness there that is outside of the role. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. And is this why, when you go to a party or you're at an event and you don't know people, the first thing they want to know isa friend of mine, Marlene, said to me, who is taking our class every week, hello Marlene, that she was at a gathering recently and that she was trying to practice the principles of A New Earth and that she was introducing herself around the table. And she was doing that in such a way she didn't talk about what she had done or accomplished or, you know, who she was married to or where she lived. And that, you know, one of the people at the table said, "Well, we don't care about who you are, we want to know what you do. We want to know what do you do?" And what I realized is people want to know that so they can determine your socalled value. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And to see if you will be of value or ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Perhaps that OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Or necessary ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, perhaps
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): for them to play the role with you. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And harms the ego or whether you might be a threat to their ego, whether they can use you, or whether they couldneed to be afraid of you, or whether they want to have further contact. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Whether you fit in their circle. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Fit in, yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It's all these things. Then many judgments go through people's minds often when they meet somebody, and they're automatic. You observe what OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That is what people mean by, "What do you do," really. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes . OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Isn't it, for the most part? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): They want to say, "What do you do? Let me place it in terms of how valuable that's going to be to me." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Now, when you don't play roles anymore, you don't have to become strange, and then when you go to parties when somebody asks you what do you do and you say... OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "I am." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "I am. I am that I am. That is all that I am." Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): This is the basic truth, but you don't need to say that when you go to a party. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You don't?
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): You can actually talk quite normally without being identified with what you say. If people asked me OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So that's the essence of what you're trying to say to us in this chapter. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Is that, of course, there are roles that we are assigned or labels that we use to identify ourself. What you're saying is, the problem is when you become completely identified with it. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And you think that is who you are. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And you behave and act as if it that were who you are. So you get trapped inside that conditioned personality. And whatever you do, then it's the personality is acting out. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You mention in the book where you play the role of patient, and if you go to a doctor who is playing the role of doctor, he often doesn't see you, the person. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because he's playing the role. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. He has become so identified with his function that the function has taken him over and he has become a role. And many patients can actually feel that when they go to a doctor, whether there's a human being still there or whether the doctor has become a role. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Absolutely. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And so when the doctor has become a role, when you go to that doctor, you don't feel acknowledged anymore in your beingness. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Absolutely.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): You feeland he might be very competent as a doctor. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I know. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): But something vital is lacking in the interaction when you see a doctor. He might be the greatest expert in his field, it still doesn't help. Something very vital is missing. And everybody OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And you feel completelythat happened to me recently where you feel completely dismissed and disconnected. Because heyou're thinking he's just trying to get me out of here so he can get the next person in. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): But if he does that to you, you can imagine what he does to a normal person. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cause usually people treat me pretty nice, anyway. Dmitry is Skyping us from Moscow. Hello. DMITRY: Hi. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Hi. DMITRY: Hello, hello. Hello, Oprah. Hello, Eckhart. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Hello. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Hi. What time is it there? I'm always curious. DMITRY: It's about 5 a.m. in the morning. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): In the morning? You're up early. DMITRY: Yeah. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, thank you. Thank you for joining us. Do you have your question?
DMITRY: I'd like to first thank you very much for your job. It's unprecedented event when you spread consciousness all around the world. So thank you very much, Eckhart, thank you very much, Oprah, for selection for being there. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you. Thank you. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Thank you. DMITRY: My question is now I do some movement exercises, very Asian ones, and they bring me to stillness. So I experience stillness when I do these movements, and I lose it when I come to my work. Now I do some poses, breathings before I start my work, but when I'm provoked, I'm getting into the power games, especially when I'm criticized. So can you recommend something in this? Thank you. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Okay. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Good. I like the way Dmitry breathed. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It was good. Yeah. DMITRY: It's so-called panoramic breath when you breathe in all surroundings. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So what would you recommend? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Well, this isyou are able to access that dimension of presence when you are not disturbed by external situations, when you are not being challenged, the ego is inactive at those times. And when you go into ordinary work situations and so on, you begin to relate to people, and immediately the ego with its old conditioning comes back and takes you over and you lose yourself in the roles you play and so on. So onewhen do you knowbecause we answered a question earlier that talked about playing roles and becoming aware of the role-playing afterwards, after the event, do you become aware at the end of the day, or do you become aware in individual instances after, like, a few minutes after it's happened at work? At what point does the awareness come in? DMITRY: It depends. If the situation is minor, I'm aware, I guess five minutes after or maybe into the situation. But when I'm provoked deeply or, for instance, when I'm deeply criticized by my boss, I can be in this for a week. And only on weekends when I do the movements, change the tense body position I am sort of relaxed form, I can manage tounwound, yes, it was again.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Another very helpful thing you can do is not just confine your presence practice to those periods at home, but bring in small, very brief moments of presence into your everyday life. For example OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): At work, you mean. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): At work. No matter where you are, you may be sitting at a computer, talking on the phone, or whatever it is, that'sI'll give you two or three examples. The phone rings, it wants to be answered. Let it ring two more times than is necessary before you answer. If the phone rings, normally you would pick it up. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Pick it up, yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Let it ring twice and be present while it rings. Allow it to ring but be there in your presence. Use it as a signal to tell you, "Be present now." That's one way of where you bring a little bit of presence into an ordinary work situation. Or you're at a computer, put a flower next to your computer and occasionally look away from the screen. It doesn't take long, just 20 seconds is fine, 30 seconds, look at the flower and feel its aliveness inside you. It helps you toanything natural can bring you back into presence much more easily than things that are manmade. Inner body at work, when you arefind a moment, turn away from your desk or whatever it is, and feel the aliveness. Do your breathing, but not the whole thing, just for a few seconds. One conscious breath in and out is a meditation. You don't have to wait for your medication until you get home; bring the meditation into the spaces into your daily life as many spaces as possible. That's whatotherwise, the mind has such momentum, the egoic mind, that it will drag you along and you will lose yourself in it. Bring it into small spaces. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Within your daily life. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Daily life. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. In addition to your panoramic breathing, Dmitry. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's beautiful. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And then you will find that in the midst of situations OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): the awareness is more likely to be there. And with already you may have listened to what I said to a previous question about becoming aware after, after falling back into old, conditioned behaviors, and you will experience the same thing, especially if you practice bringing smallthese spaces of awareness into everyday life. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Into your daily life. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And you will find that gradually presence will be strong enough even when your boss speaks to you and criticizes you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Even when he's on the third ring. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So it's a gradual process where presence goes into every aspect of your life gradually. It permeates your everybecause that's what is needed. Even if you were the greatest meditator, you could achieve sublime states twice a day at home when you meditate, it wouldn't help you if presence does not permeate every aspect of your life. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And because, otherwise you'll be like the father who washe was doingin Buddhism, they have a meta meditation; it's called "meditating on loving kindness." So you sit there and say, "I love all the people in this house, I love all the people in this city, I love all the people" DMITRY: Observations. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): "All the people in this house be at peace, all the people in this city be at peace, all the people in this country be at peace." And then the daughter comes in and says, "Dad." And then the father says, "Leave me alone, can't you see I'm doing loving kindness meditation?" OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you, Dmitry. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Thank you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It goes back to what you were saying earlier, "Can I sense my"what you said on page 79, this is in last week's chapter on "Core of the Ego," "Can I sense my essential Beingness, the I Am, in the background of my life at all times? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's what you're saying to him. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "To be more accurate, can I sense the I Am that I Am at this moment? Can I sense my essential identity as consciousness itself," even when my boss is yelling at me? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Even whenyes. And then perhaps precisely in moments of greatest challenge, there's a greater intensity of presence from OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because those moments would be his most sacred moments, would they not be? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's how you know. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It's soit's when your greatest challenges become, instead of drawing you into unconscious reactions, when your greatest challenges intensify your presence, then that's how it works, that's the miracle and that's how the beauty of this works. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you again for Skyping us from Moscow. Thank you. DMITRY: Thank you very much. Thank you very much. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Dmitry, thank you. Thank you. Okay. DMITRY: Eckhart, I'd like to tell that I'm very familiar with your voice because I have some recordings of your talks so your voice already permeated me, and thank you very much for being in presence into the life of this planet. Thank you. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Thank you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you. I like all your books in the background there too, Dmitry, that's very nice. So I want to look at some of the e-mail questions, which there's a question from Grace in Pleasanton, California, that says, "Since I've been an owner of a dog I find myself so much more in the present. My question is, why am I naturally so much more present with animals than I'm sometimes dealing with people?" ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Ah, yes. Well, the animal does not provoke thought activity because the dog is not thinking. When the dog looks at you, the dog is not thinking what kind of person you are, the dog is not judging you, there's the dog is at a stage of consciousness prior to the arrival of thought. So the dog isand that state has certain similarities with the state of presence, in which is the state of going beyond thinkingwhere we are going. In both cases, if you are OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So in that way, the dogs are a little more enlightened than we are? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): In some ways, the dogs are more connected with being OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): With being. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): than we are; than normal humans are. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Normal humans are. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And so OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Cause that's where they are all the time. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And I sometimes call them dogs and cats, particularly, because that'spets that for millions of humans are very important in their lives. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): I call them "guardians of being." OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Guardians of being.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Because for many people they fulfill that function. Theyfor many people who are so lost in their minds, so much involved in their thought processes, the only moments they have when they are not trapped in that, is when they are relating to their animal; their pet. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): All right. YouI have to get to this quote. Well, I'll get to that in a moment. You say that the role of the parent should not be to spare children from all suffering. Why not? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Because nofirst of all, you can't. It would be futile to even attempt. Of course, you protect the child as much as you can, but every human being has to go through a certain amount of suffering. You cannot come into this planet and avoid suffering. Every OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Cause that's what being a human being is. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Is that there is athere's some discord. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And that is how we grow. If there were a human being that could have avoided all suffering, that human being would be totally superficial and totally identified with an external form of things because it's suffering that drives you deeper, drives you within where you need to find. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): By suffering, do you mean not getting what we want? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Well, that's one form of suffering, true. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): There are different forms of suffering. Many forms of suffering, of course, are generated by the ego itself. These are ultimately unnecessary forms of suffering. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): But they don'tthey are necessary for as long as you are unconscious. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And another word for suffering would be "challenges" or "difficulties," correct? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Challenges are OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So you can't be a human being without being challenged? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No. That would beyou would miss the whole purpose for being here. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So you need to see even your children will not escape their will sooner or later. And usually sooner than later, they will encounter their form of suffering, whatever it is. You protect them as much as you can but when you see certain things are inevitable, they may do things, unconscious behavior, they may generate their own suffering; self-generated, or it may happen to them from the outside. But no matter what, it will happen. And then rather than going into intense anguish, see this is human suffering. And every humanyou had to go through your forms of suffering. In my case, for example, I hadmy parents had very heavy pain-bodies. There was constant conflict at home. And that was my constant suffering. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Pain-body; that's next week. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): We'll talk about that. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. No, finish the sentence; I just wanted to say
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So this, of course, not only applies to children, it also applies to other people that may be close to you and going through their suffering. You do what you can to help them, whatever you can. The important thing is that you don't go into anguish yourself because by going into anxiety and anguish yourself, you're not helping them at all. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Because whatever state you are in transmits itself to others. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): How does playing a role at work keep us from being powerful? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Well, if you play a role at work, you always have a secondary motive in what you do because the ego is at work, you're not totally focused on the task at hand because there is some self-interest there; you want to protect yourself, you want to get credit for yourself, you want to perhaps eliminate other people around you or perhaps you want to use other people for your own purposes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): A lot of times this happens when people get promoted to supervisors. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You know, they were really good in whatever position they had, and then they get promoted to supervisors, have a little more power ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): means they're not just now functioning at work for themselves, but now they're over other people, and a little bit of power goes to their heads, and before you know it, trouble. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That's absolutely right, and that's the ego. If you have a position of little power, then the ego is kind of there in potential, it's latent as far as your work situation's concerned. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): A similar situation you have in certain Third World countries where often you find a revolution overthrows the government and the people who initiated the revolution had the best intentions. They wanteventually, they want to do away with corruption; they want the best for their country. The
moment they get into power, the latent ego in them, although they had good intentions, comes up, and they repeat the same dysfunction that they wanted to do away with. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Happens all the time. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): All right. Shali lives in Stockholm. Shali, you were on earlier today, we Skyped you on The Oprah Winfrey Show. Well, you've been up a long time. I hear you have a question about raising your 3-year-old daughter. Go ahead. SHALI: I do have a question about that. A lot of it I guess has been answered just by listening to tonight's show. But the question about her is. how do you stay present when you're trying to discipline your child, and she starts screaming and shouting? And she's only 3, so I can't really explain to her that it's really your ego that's coming out. And I feel like she's learning these roles. I guess my question is, you know, I want herI want to raise her as a more conscious human being, you know. I don't want her to be awakened at the age of 35 like me. How do you raise a more conscious child, and how do you stay more conscious when you're dealing with conflict? Because I don't want to set a negative pattern for, you know, when she's 16 and she wants to borrow the car, for example. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes. I would suggest that you pay, first of all, pay more attention to your inner state than to what is happening to your daughter. Because I believe you experience perhaps your daughter causing you feelings of anxiety sometimes. SHARI: Yeah, right on, absolutely. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): You believe that. Now, that is a bitthat seems to be the case that your daughter, by going through certain kinds of behavior, causes you feelings of anxiety, but ultimately that is not the case. You cause yourself the feelings of anxiety. When your daughter refuses to eat, she's not making you anxious, only you can do that. So it is vital what state of consciousness you are in, what emotional state you are in when you are relating to your daughter. Because if you are often in a state of anxiety, you get into a vicious circle. The anxiety that you believe was caused by your daughter's behavior, but is ultimately caused by your reaction to your daughter's behavior. That anxiety then will affect her, and that is a nervous energy field that will provoke further so-called bad behavior in her because children absorb. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I was going say, a 3-year-old is absorbing that and picking up that energy more than even your language. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): They're picking up the energy that you carry. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. So your first OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Cause that is their language. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That's right. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And so your first realization isyour first interest needs to be in any situation with your child, okay, there's the external situation, there's what the child is doing or is not doing but should be doing, or screaming, or whatever it is, or not eating, not wanting to go to bed, whatever children do. But your first interest needs to be, "Okay, what's my inner stage right now? Am I accepting this moment no matter what form it is? Am I saying that'sam I?" What I suggest is the little mantra that I recommend is to ask yourself whether you can be there as the space for whatever your daughter does. "Can I be the space for this?" This is a general thing that many people will find helpful no matter what situation you go into in life, at work, at home, wherever. "The present moment, am I able to accept this moment as it is? Or am I saying, 'It should be different, you should behave differently,?'" But she's not behaving differently; she's behaving the way she's behaving right now. You need to accept that right now she's screaming, if that's what she does. That is, "Can I be the space for that?" Then you see her screaming. Anotherthis is related to the little exercise we had earlier where you felt yourself becoming transparent to an irritating external situation so that you don't have a reactive barrier inside you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's hard to do though, when your child is screaming. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because your immediate instinct, I would think, is to stop the child from screaming, to resist the screaming. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): To try to prevent more screaming. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And so the resistance of that, the angst and anxiety of that creates more screaming. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): More screaming. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Cause if you could just be calm enough to allow your calmness to then calm the child. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's easier said than done, though. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. That's your spiritual practice. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): You don't need any other spiritual practice for the next SHARI: Cause [unintelligible]. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, for the next few years that is your main OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That is your main. It's far better than going to a monastery and meditate all day long. Much more effective making that into your spiritual practice. And then you will see, as you go, you become more peaceful. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And more accepting of the present moment. More being the space. Then that will transmit itself to the child and affect the child. And the child will absorb your emanation, your energetic vibration of frequency,
and the change will happen in that way rather than feeling that, "I need to change her." Change happens when you change. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. That is to prevent herbut that is to not allow her to do things that are dangerous or to ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You know, he's not saying that, but he's saying about adjusting the way you are beingcapital Bwith her. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Capital B. Thank you. Thank you so much, Shali. SHARI: Thank you so much, and thank you so much for doing this Web seminar. I hope you do more. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well thank you, thank you so much. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Thank you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's a way of being present ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): for any situation. And what you were saying is we can apply it not just to children, but to all situations. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Any situation, and it's usually the case, the most in some people's lives, they have a variety of little challenges. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): But there's other people who have one predominant difficulty in their lives. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. Right.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Whether it's another person, whether it's a health situation or whether it's a work situation or financial problem, that one huge challenge in their lives. And usually one would consider the main, this huge challenge in your life as your greatest enemy almost, the greatest burden. Or, as Christians would call it, my cross OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): To bear. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): to bear. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Now this, it doesn'tthis can actually be turned around and you can make that very thing that is considered your great OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Your cross to bear. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): You can make that into your greatest help on the spiritual path. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Because it's precisely there that if you can bring acceptance to that and be the space for that situation, that is usually calledwhat usually we call "bad" by the mind, but it is. You can't argue with it. "This is the situation right now, can I be the space for that?" And that situation takes you into surrender and into presence. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So that, you know, so many people, when they were first talking about purchasing this book on the website, I saw a lot of messages from people saying, "I hope this, you know, shows me my life purpose, I want to awaken to my life's purpose." And for a lot of people, thatthey want that to be something grand. They want it to be, you know, saving starving children in India and Africa. They want it to be some great description or something. But what you're saying is, is that if we areallow ourselves to be fully present with whatever our chosen function is in life and whatever difficulties might arise, that there is sacredness in the difficulty if we allow it to be. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Yes. And be fully present with whatever the situation is now. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And then go from there. Sobecause then your inner self changes when you're fully present with the situation, you're no longer putting up internal resistance to life. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Even if there is that thing that you call, there's something that you call "background happiness." There's something that happened, or needs to happen, or someone who did something. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Background unhappiness. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Background unhappiness. So there's something that happened, or need tohe refers to that on page 114, everybody. "There's something that needs to happen in my life before I can be at peace. Something happened in the past that should not have happened. Something is happening now that should not be happening." How do we make peace with the background unhappiness of our lives? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Yes. You recognize the background unhappiness as not content-based, but as structural. It's the structure of the egoic mind to create that. We had the same when Jenny asked her question. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): We had the similar thing. The guilt feelings that she had was part of the background structure of the ego. And no matter what situation, if you haven't tackled or recognized the structure of the ego in yourself as certain thought forms that repeat themselves, no matter what situation you go into, they will come out in some new form, but basically the same structure. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I got it. I got it. So the secret to happiness, you say, and so many people were writing about this on the Web ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): The secret to happiness everybody, page 115, "There are three words that convey the secret of the art of living, the secret of all successes and happiness: One with life. Being one with life is being one with Now," you say. "You then realize that you don't live your life, but life lives you. Life is the dancer, and you are the dance." I have to tell you, I love this book, but I was, like, "Gee, I thought life was the dance and I was the dancer." And there are a lot of people on the Web who are saying the same thing. Can you explain how life is the dancer and we are the dance? Why aren't we the dancer?
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): You are not separate from life. So whatever any OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Life is the dancer. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Life is dancing the dance of form, one could say. Every human being and everything that exists is part of the dance of life. That which moves you, the very consciousness that animates your being, that animates every cell of your body that produces thoughts too, the very consciousness that you are is the one universal, the one life. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And that permeates everything. And so the entire universe is permeated by that consciousness, by life, which is another word for "God." OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): God. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): I don't see God as entity that is in a particular place somewhere, but as the essence, the intelligence, the animating life essence behind all life forms. It's the eternal. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): The totality. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's the totality. You see God. You're saying that God is, your idea of God is the totality of the essence of all life forms. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And, ultimately, you are not separate from that. It's the egoic mind that says, "my life." The moment you say, "my life," you've already separated yourself from life. It's a thought. Never thought to say, "This is my life," and then you think, "Oh, I can lose my life. I am not separate from life because I am life." It's only through the structure of language that you create the illusion of separation. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I see that. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): The dog still knows from a primordial level the animal. The tree knows that it is one with life, so it doesn't have this fear of death, and it doesn't see itself as separate from the rest of the universe.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So let me ask you the big question. You have no fear of death? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No, no. The ego has dissolved, and so only the ego fears death. I know there is no death. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You know there is no death. Okay, tell me how. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): I have a little thing at the end of this chapter. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I know. You say, "The incontrovertible proof of immortality." I read that and I went "Okay, well, I read that. I still" ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): I've donea little thing I did there, usually when people talk about immortality, they use certain arguments to perhaps from physics. They say the energy getsnever is destroyed, energy can only become transformed. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right, transformed. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So the vital energy that is your life, because energy cannot be destroyed, must survive in some form. That's often the argument for the survival of their life. There is no death, only the form dissolves. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right, that's right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That's one way you can approach it. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): But I thought I'll doand look at the structure of this sentence of language that says "my life" or "I have a life." Because most people believe that they have a life. And they also believe that they can lose their life. Now, if you look at that sentence and say, "I can lose my life, then I am separate from life." OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So, "There is no such thing as 'my life,'" you say at the end of this chapter, page 128. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Because I am life. I am not separate from life; I am an expression of the one life, a temporary
expression in this form of the one timeless and formless life. So I don't have a life because I am life, expressing itself as this form. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. So what happens when you, two weeks ago, talked about your mother and father lying in the casket, and you realized that the life force or formlessness ofthat they were lying in the casket and there were these bodies, but they were not there. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): They were not there. So we are not our bodies. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): We do know that. Everybody who's reading this book knows we're not our bodies. We do get that. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And that'sonce you can actually sense that, not just as ait's not just a belief, you can also see that you're not your body if you just approach it logically and see that when there's a dead body, then that being is not there anymore. There's only the flesh and the bones. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And when the being isn't there anymore, the flesh and bones very quickly dissolve. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): When the animating presence isn't there anymore, all the atoms and molecules separate. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Go their own way. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Because the animating presence is not there anymore.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. So continuing here. So, "There's no such thing as 'my life,' and I don't have a life. I am life. I and life are one. It cannot be otherwise. So how could I lose my life? How could I lose something that I don't have in the first place? How can I lose something that I Am? It is impossible." So what is happening here is I just got it, hello, hello, bing bing bing. I got it. We are confusing the I am life force with our bodies. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): We're confusing that. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. That's right. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So when this dies and becomes the shell and dissipates and the atoms go wherever they go back into the ground, ashes to ashes, dust to dust, we are confusing that which is the physical form, the human, we're confusing that with the being. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. And they are separate. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. So another way, if you don't like the word "life," you can say "the universe." People believe that, "I'm here, and there's the rest of the universe." OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): I have come into this universe. They don't know from where. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): "I've come into this universe." It would be more appropriate to feel that you have come out of this universe because you are this universe experiencing itself very briefly. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): As a human. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): As a human.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): As a human. I got that. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And so it wants to do that. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Oooh, I got that, I got that, I got that, I got that. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It's wonderful when you realize there's more to you than the person. You are the universe. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Expressing itself. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, and experiencing. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): As a human. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): As a human. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Called "Eckhart." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. For little while. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): For little while. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And then it goes through other experiences. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And then where do we go, Eckhart? Could you tell us that? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Well, let's see what happens. What happens. Otherwise, you take the fun out of it. You have toif you knew the rest of your life already, the fun would be taken out of it. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Oh, okay. All right. Well, before we say goodbye, I know there's lots we did not get to in this chapter. We could've spent two or three weeks on this one chapter, but what would you say is the essence of this chapter? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): The essence of this chapter?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, the role-playing chapter. What I said in the beginning that we're humans and beings. And in this body trying to live through the two. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. It's balancing the human and the being so that you can be function in this world of form where you have to do things and fulfill your function, at the same time not lose yourself in that. Be rooted in the depth of being so that you're not lost in form. So there's a depth to you and rootedness in that stillness, that aliveness. And then from there you function out here. And there's always then peace in the background. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Peace in the background. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No matter what's happening out there. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And most particularly, not to be attached to, defined by the roles that we play in life and realize what they are: just roles. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And relinquish the role when it's not required anymore. When your children grow up, you don't need to be the mother or father. You don't need to play that role anymore. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): See, so many people think that is who they are. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And so when their children grow up, they don't know who they are anymore. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. It can be a crisis. Or people retire. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): They had identified with
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And they were their job. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, and then, "Who am I?" OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, you were talking about in Japan, where it used to be you kept your job for life. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And you were sharing with us the last time about a man who committed suicide. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): What'sthere have been many cases of people in Japan who lost their jobs and committed suicide because they were so identified with their companyit was their sense of self. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, fascinating. I want to thank you all of you around the world for making this athis a really a remarkable experience, for making it possible. Eckhart and I will be here again next Monday at 8 p.m. Tell all your friends, share the book with them, if they say, "I don't get it," that's okay. That's really okay. That's okay. They'll have the book and maybe pick it up a year from now, two years from now, 10 years from now. This fourth class will be available on demand starting tomorrow just like all the other classes for free here at Oprah.com. And if you want to download a podcast of any of our classes, you can also do that tomorrow at Oprah.com and at iTunes. Your homework assignment for this week is to update your workbook. Next week, it's the chapter many of you have been waiting for, Chapter 5, "The Pain-Body." "The Pain-Body." If you feel burdened by your past, begin to learn how to lighten that load. That's going to be really very exciting. Now, many of you have been asking about our New Earth theme music. The song is called, "We Are One Earth," and it was produced by Harpo Sounds, our in-house music label. Beginning tomorrow, it will be available as a free download on iTunes and Oprah.com, so enjoy it, those of you who've asked us for it. This was fun. This was fun. So let's just wait to see what happens. Let's just wait to see what happens. Thank you so much. See you in class next week. Bye, everybody.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Welcome to A New Earth: Awakening to Your Life's Purpose, a worldwide Web event. ANNOUNCER: A New Earth is sponsored, in part, by Nature Made Liquid Softgel vitamins, the newest way to fuel your greatness. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Hi everybody, welcome again to class number 5 in our webcast series about Eckhart Tolle's A New Earth. We're at the halfway mark, and I'd like to thank all of you who are committed to this work and make time every week to share this space with us and to give this to yourself. As of today, we've hit nearly 11 million streams and downloads of this series. That's really uplifting. So together, I believe that we are beginning to create powerful changes in our lives as individuals and then putting that out into the world. Before we get started, I wanted to share something with all of you. Our friend Elizabeth Lesser of the Omega Institute sent me a poem that I'd like to share with everybody. She sent it to me this week because I, several weeks ago, was talking about being under my trees and sensing the trees. And so she e-mailed me this poem and said, "Here's a poem to be with your trees." It's called "Lost" by David Wagoner and will be on our website for you to get later. So listen to this, Eckhart. It says, "Stand still. The trees ahead and bushes beside you / Are not lost. Wherever you are is called Here, / and you must treat it as a powerful stranger, / Must ask permission to know it and be known. / The forest breathes. Listen. It answers, / I have made this place around you. / If you leave it, you may come back again, saying, Here. / No two trees are the same to Raven. / No two branches are the same to Wren. / If what a tree or a bush does is lost on you, / You are surely lost. Stand still. The forest knows / Where you are. You must let it find you." Don't you love that? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It's beautiful. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. So that's my point, to lead us into silence. Would you like to lead us into silence? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Eckhart has a cold this week, everybody. I told him he's sounding very sexy.
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ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So when we go into silence, another way of putting it is to say we go into the present moment more deeply. So let's approach it from that angle today and say, "Let's take our attention right now into this present moment"no matter what it contains on the surface, no matter what you're perceiving or what you're feeling. You bring a full acceptance to this moment as it is, no matter what form it takes. And that aligns you with now and takes you into stillness. So that's all weI'lldo right now, and so we're still just for a little while, sensing what the present moment is beyond the forms of the present moment, sensing what the essence of the present moment is because the essence of the present moment is life itself. So it's sensing that life that is the essence of now, which is more than what you see in the now and that you're attached to in the now. It's deeper than that. You can only sense it. The external senses cannot perceive it. So let's do this now and just be with the present moment. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): All right. I'm actually finding it easier. The first time we did this, I was, like, "Oh boy, we're going to be quiet for 10 seconds. Now I think we're going, like, 40, 50 seconds. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And another strange thing is when you actually enter the present moment, it's a holy place no matter where you are. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): No matter where you are. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And this connects with the poem you read. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): If you bring your attention to it fully, every place you are is holy. So there's a sacredness to life that you become aware of once you take your attention into the present moment. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): What I'm finding, too, reading this book and then working with you every week, is that everything starts to be sacred. Everything starts to be. You can find the sacred in the most ordinary of things. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And that there is a calmness and a stillness to almost everything if you can get quiet enough yourself to feel it.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. That's what's happening to me. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): As so many other people are experiencing whatever you're experiencing, how this, the reading of his book, the awakening for you is taking on whatever form it does in your life, that's what I'm seeing for myself. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. But there'severything's magical. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You never have to be bored, ever. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No. No. That'sand the need for artificial stimulus goals for people continuously need to, whenever they get home, they need to switch something on to some kind of entertainment. You can still enjoy entertainment, but you're not dependent anymore. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): On that to fill you up. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, tonight we're discussing Chapter 5. So glad we're in "The PainBody." So I wanted to just start with my idea of an overview of this chapter. You say that in this chapter that the human mind seems to be hooked on my, me and my story, constant mind chatter that keeps negative emotions alive and personalizes everything. You say at the beginning of this chapter on page 129 I'm on, everybodythat the greatest part of most people's thinking is "involuntary, automatic, and repetitive. It is no more than a kind of mental static and fulfills no real purpose. Strictly speaking, you don't think: Thinking happens to you. The statement 'I think' implies volition," you say.
"It implies that you have a say in the matter, that there's a voice involved on your part." But, really, you say, "'I think' is just a false statement as 'I digest' or 'I circulate my blood."' Digestion happens, circulation happens, thinking happens." Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So it's becoming aware that thinking happens to you all the time. The key is becoming aware of it. It's happening to everybody until the awareness occurs, then you are identified with that voice in the head, with its repetitive thought patterns. And that is what most people are trapped in, and it makes up their superficial personality with all their, the continuous repetitive judgment, and likes, and dislikes, and prejudices and whatever makes up the content of their egoic mind. So people are trapped in that and derive a sense of self from that, which is ultimately insubstantial, conditioned by the past and not who they are. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Absolutely. And you say also in Chapter 5, "The Pain-Body," you show how this addiction to being, these thoughts in our head, this addiction to these thoughts to our head, to this negativity, is at the root of humanity's problems. On page [138] you write, "We are a species that has lost its way." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And we are lost, I could say. Also, we are species lost; we are lost in thought. We've lost ourselves in the mind. So looking for some kind of identity in the movement of thinking without ever really finding it. So most important step in any point of awakening is to realize that there is a voice in the head that doesn't stop speaking. When you realize, "Oh there's" and then you begin to realize what kinds of things the voice is saying: repetitive judgments and so on, negative thoughts about yourself, about other people, about situations you are in. Especially all these repetitive negative thoughts that many people are trapped with. You become aware of that. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes, and you, then you become aware that it's really just the story that you've told yourself about yourself. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And that's all it is. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): All right, that it has no power.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And the OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Past has no power over you. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No power. The power comes in with your awareness that there is a voice. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Cause the awareness is not part of it. And that is part of being, becoming present. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. One of my favorite quotes of this chapter is, "Nothing," on page 141, "Nothing ever happened in the past that can prevent you from being present now; and if the past cannot prevent you from being present now, what power does it have?" ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Yes. Cause many people are so attached to the past that they carry a burden, like carrying a huge sack on your back, a burden. You're identified with that. And they believe that they're unable to be present because the past prevents them from being present. But it can't do that. You can step out of the stream of thinking. Take your attention into present, and immediately the past no longer has that power over you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because nothing ever happened in the past that could prevent you from being present now. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You say that the core of all this is the pain-body. On page 141, we read that, "Any negative emotion that is not fully faced and seen for what it is in the moment it arises does not completely dissolve. The energy field of old but still very much alive emotion that lives in almost every human being is the pain-body." And Chapter 5 introduces us to the pain-body. Amazing.
You know, when I read this, I thought about my childhood. Now, I've shared my childhood with lots of people, and as a child, I was raised by my grandmother for the first six years. And my grandmother used to whip me often. Like, I used to get beatings on a regular basis. And it was really a part of our culture, and I know many of you were raised this way too, that not only would you get beaten for almost, you know, for doing nothing, for, you broke a glass or you, you know, spoke out of turn or whatever the adults deemed was inappropriate for you in that moment. But I would get beaten, and then I was never allowed to have any emotion about it. And I remember feelingmany times my grandmother would whip me with switches. She would braid the switches together, and I'd get a whipping, and then in the middle of whipping me, she'd say, "Stop your crying. Stop your crying." And I'd get whipped until I would stopped crying. And then afterward she would say, "You better wipe that pout off of your face. You better put a smile on your face. So you'd have to now act as though the beating that you just had didn't happen. And when I read thisthat "any negative emotion that is not fully faced and seen for what it is in the moment it arises does not completely dissolve. It leaves behind a remnant of pain"I realized that that pain of not being able to express the motion of just being able to be angry. I mean, now I see kids today, when their parents say something and they don't like it, the kids can say, "I don't like you," or "That upset me," or you know, God forbid, "I hate you," which, you know, in my culture was never allowed. You had to suppress that, whatever you're feeling, if you're beaten, "Wipe that pout off of your face. Wipe your tears. Stop crying right now." And so that would be a huge pain-body that I would end up carrying. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Especially as a child. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Cause you say children especially carry it. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Yes. So did you find then that as you grew up that there was a lot of unexpressed negative emotion in you? OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I didn't. It wasn't unexpressed. It was repressed ability toit's what caused me to have the disease to please for so long. A desire to please everybody because the ability to say in the moment, "This upsets me," or "This really bothers me," or "What you're doing I don't like," was not something I felt I could do for the longest time. Yeah.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Yes. So the, all these negative remnants of negative emotions, they become, they accumulate in the body. And then OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I ate mine. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. Yeah. Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And then together they form what I call, because, now, we need to realize that any emotion that you have is a form of energy that's acceptable, I think, to most people. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Just as every thought you have is a form of energy. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Every thought is energy, so there's nothing spooky about that. So when we say, when I say that the painbody can be considered almost an entity in its own right that lives in you, some people find that's a little spooky, but all that I'm trying to say is here that it's an energy form. Entity is another word for it. So an energy form lives in you that you may not be aware of all the time because some of the time it is dormant, and it's only active for a certain percentage of the time. So first realization is that there is something in me that seeks unhappiness, that seeks unpleasant experiences, that seeks more negativity because it feeds on those things. Those things, negative thoughts, will feed to the pain-body. That is one of the favorite ways pain-body to feed is on your own thinking. So this is very important for people to realize, to observe within themselves that periodically in many people, an addiction to negativity arises. And if you can recognize that as it arises, then you're no longer totally at the mercy of it. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. Because the awareness dissipates it. Yes. Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And so back at this point, though. Whenever there is negativity in your life that you never fully dealt with, that negativitythe energy of that negativityhas to go someplace. And you're saying where it goes is inside us. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And for me, everybody knows I've struggled with my weight for years, for me. That's the form that it takes. For a lot of other people, it makes them, you know, outwardly, you know, angry or negative toward other people. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But it has to take some form. For some people it makes them sick, makes them ill. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And a very frequent manifestation of itperhaps the most frequent manifestation of the pain-body is in intimate relationships where, periodically, partners have to go through their drama. They have to re-enact drama every few weeks. So, in some cases, every few days they go through intense emotional negativity. And usually the pain-body awakens first in one, in either the man or the woman first. And when the pain-body awakens, it wants some kind of reaction, negative emotional reaction. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's seeking that from the other person. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Because it feeds on it. So many people have realized when I've spoken about it, they realize, "Oh yes, this is happening in our relationship." That periodically the need, the pain-body arises, and it then will attempt to push the partner's buttons, as they're called in some form of psychotherapy, they say. Pushing the person's buttons means the pain-body knows exactly what buttons to push in your partner, buttons that will certainly bring a negative reaction. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Now, is the pain-body ultimately this feeling of not being good enough? Is the pain-body there because of a feeling of not being worthy, of not knowing its sense of presence or consciousness? Is that why it's a pain-body? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Well, it's the emotional aspect of the ego. So, really, pain-body is part of the ego, and it's a very unhappy
entity. But because its very existence consists of this unhappy vibration, it does not want an end to its unhappiness because an end to its unhappiness is the end to the pain-body. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Got it. Got it. Linda is Skyping us from her den. Hello. LINDA: Hi. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Hi. LINDA: How are you, Oprah? OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Is that a yellow den you have there? Yellow? LINDA: Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes, it's gorgeous. LINDA: Oh, thank you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): In Silver Spring, Maryland, she has a question about the pain-body in her sister. LINDA: I do. And thank you, Oprah, so much for this. I first encountered your book, Mr. Tolle, in 2005, and have read it at least four times. And so when Oprah picked it, I was so excited. You write on page148 that the pain-bodies love intimate relationships. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. LINDA: And families because that is where they get most of their food. And that really resonated for me. I had a huge aha! moment because I have a sister who has always interacted with everyone in the family in a very dramatic way, and that I always considered her to be a drama queen who would rather have a problem than solve a problem. But after reading this chapter, it helped me so much understand more about her and what was going on and why she was interacting with us the way that she is. My question is now that I've seen that, of course I wanted to call her and have her read the book, and, but, you've already talked about how sometimes that's not necessarily the best way to approach people. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. Right. Right.
LINDA: But how? What is the way? How can I really reconnect the family? She has separated from our family, she's separated from her children from us, and we have no relationship at all. And it's really tragic. And I want to do something to help bring us back together and don't know what to do. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So at the moment you have no contact with her at all? LINDA: None. She has totally withdrawn everything. I do send her e-mails every month or so just to check in. Sometimes she responds, but very terse and cold; most times, not. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Well the LINDA: [unintelligible] I'm sorry. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): wait on, I hope an opportunity will arise for you to get together at some point so you can continue to invite her, if there's an event at home or whatever, and then just be open. And, but when she does come, it's very important for you to, not to buy into her drama. I don't know whether this happened in the past, whether she used to draw other family members into her drama. That's usually the tendency. LINDA: Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So now when you meet her again, then you will realize, of course, you will be in a different state of consciousness because you will see that what she is suffering from is the disease of the pain-body. And that is not part of who she actually is in truth. So you can be there as a very compassionate presence, and when the drama arises again, as it will, because her pain-body will be very active again when she meets you or any family member, when it happens again, it is very unlikely that you will be, you will find yourself forced to react to the pain-body because you will be present. So you can simply recognize the pain-body in her without the need, as that was there in the past, the need to react to it, and therefore buy into her drama and feed her drama. And that will be a very strange experience for hersomebody who simply accepts her the way she is. And if accusations come at you, whatever she does, "you did this" or whatever, whatever form the drama takes LINDA: You sound like you know her. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): I know the pain-body. They're all the same, basically. So then you can, you can simply accept that she's
suffering from this and simply be there as a compassionate presence without reacting. Allow her to be in her pain-body. And that means that the drama cannot sustain itself for very long if only one part, one person plays the drama. It needs two. So you're not feeding her pain-body anymore. And then see what happens. She may be confused. I've experienced that quite a few times when people came up to me with heavy pain-bodies. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's a story that you tell in this chapter about the friend who comes to your house, and she has all the papers and she's complaining, Linda. LINDA: Oh yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And she doesn't know what to do, and she lays out all the papers and she's complaining and complaining and complaining, and Eckhart basically says nothing but just listens and is the presence there for her. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And finally she picks up her papers confused and just goes home and the next day says, "What did you do to me?" ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes. LINDA: Yeah. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): But don't underestimate the pain-body's ability to draw out some, to make you unconscious again, to push some kind of button, and you will find yourself reacting again. Because pain-bodies are very cunning, very clever. And they know exactly what will make you unconscious and what will make you react. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You speak of it like it's a creature that's like an alien force inside of us. Yeah. LINDA: Yeah.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, that's how I see it. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Really. Really. But you see that, Linda, that being, that this is, this then becomes your sacred spiritual journey. This is a part of your spiritual journey to not be drawn into the drama. LINDA: Well, I, it's so interesting you put it that way, Oprah, because that's what I've kind of come to the conclusion that this is part of my awakening. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. LINDA: You know, my role in my family is to kind of be the one to help her get out of this. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. And not by judging and not by telling her to. LINDA: Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But by being that which you, you know, want, wish to emulate. LINDA: Yeah. And that's the hard part, is not OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, that's hard. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. LINDA: Not judging because I guess that's the part of the pain-body that she activates in me. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Cause your pain-body wants to say, "Who do you think you are?" LINDA: Exactly. Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I know, I've been there.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And, of course, when the pain-body takes over a person, the whole personality becomes transformed, and sometimes people are shocked when they marry somebody or they start living with somebody and this lovely man or woman that they loved so much, one morning, suddenly, he or she turns into a little monster. Total energy shift in them to a complete change of energy like it's truly as if they were possessed by a completely different, very negative personality. And that comes as a shock often to people when they start living together. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And, again, it doesn't mean that necessarily that you chose the wrong person to live with, it just means for the first time you experienced that person's pain-body. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): The pain-body showed up. And, also, what you, what we were talking about in the last chapter, you were playing a role up until then. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You were playing the role: "I am in love with you." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And, often, love, you say, is about your own possessiveness. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And so the roles are easy to play as long as you're not living together, then you can sustain the roles. But when you start living together, very soon, the roles cannot be played anymore. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And, also, that's why, I was thinking with the pain-bodies, what happens on a lot of holidays, Linda, you've seen this in families, everybody comes together, and you have all those pain-bodies in a room.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Oh yes. LINDA: Clashing. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Clashing and reacting to one another and all living in the past, about the past. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Oh yes. Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because that's what all the, that's what the coming together for families is about, is ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Thanksgiving and Christmas Day are the best day for the pain-bodies because people LINDA: Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): everywhere. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Really. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And, often, the families go through the same thing year after year. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Really? Thank you, Linda, for bringing that up. LINDA: Thank you so much. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you. LINDA: And I will listen to the rest of the class. Thank you so much for the opportunity. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you for bringing that up for us.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Thank you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, and often, yeah, the reason why all, you have all these painbodies clashing, Thanksgiving, on the major holidays they come together, and people have an image in their mindthe Currier and Ives, the painting of what they want the Thanksgiving dinner to beand instead it becomes something different because everybody's bringing their past. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Living that moment through their past. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes. Amazing. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So how do we change that this Thanksgiving? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Well, the, it just takes one person to be present and one person not to participate in this. So when next event happens, family gathering, whatever it is, then you will see the usual comments will be made. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And usual reactions will happen. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "Can you believe he did...? Can you?" Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes. Or you visit your parents, and your parents don't fully approve of you, and then they say, "Well, you remember 10 years ago I told you you should have done that. You would be better off now if you had done that." OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And, again, immediately, if you're not present, pain-body will arise, and it will become defensive. Anger will arise. So
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Then you're in it. You're drawn into the drama. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. So it requires great alertness not to be drawn in. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So because the, when, don't underestimate the pain-body's ability to draw in. Sometimes even very present people can still be drawn in. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. And you were saying that it happens in intimate situations, in family situations more often than not becauseI would suppose it's becauseout in the world everybody's trying to be, at least, on their best behavior. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): A lot of people who are taking this class, you know, are working people who see it in their jobs every day with people. Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Every day. I love on page 134 when you say, "Although the body is very intelligent, it cannot tell the difference between an actual situation and a thought. It reacts to every thought as if it were a reality. It doesn't know it's just a thought. To the body, a worrisome, fearful thought means 'I'm in danger,' and it responds accordingly, even though you may be lying in a warm and comfortable bed at night. The heart beats faster, muscles contract, breathing becomes rapid. There is a buildup of energy, but since the danger is only a mental fiction, the energy has no outlet. The rest of the energy turns toxic, interferes with the harmonious functioning of the body." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So that's what you said weeks ago about worry. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): To see in one's self when worry arises, what we call worry is simply repetitive negative thought patterns. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right. And your body doesn't know the difference. And so all of that energy is inside your body, and that's what makes people sick. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes. So it's very important to clear up your mind so that you stop the continuous negativity of the egoic self-talk, as we call it. So recognize it, and then step out of that stream of thinking. Use any device you can. I recommend device number one, to step out of the stream of negative thinking, come into the present moment, take one or two conscious breaths. You've stepped out of the stream of thinking. Or feel the inner body, feel the aliveness in your arms, your hands, your legs. Put your attention there. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): You have stepped out of the stream of thinking. Or look at something and bring your full consciousness to the act of perception. For example, a tree or a flower, anything natural is best. Look at anything natural. Give it your full attention that takes you out of the stream of thinking. Or any natural sound, a bird, the wind. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): To bring you back, really. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Bring you, or bring you back to the present. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Bring you back to the present moment. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): These are all little ways in which you can step out of the stream of repetitive thinking. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): In the story on page 137, the duck with the human mind, love that story. You talk about how the human mind creates me and a my story that keeps negative emotions alive and personalizes everything, and it's ultimately led our entire species to this, to a precipice. So tell us the duck story.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Well, I was OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): What lessons it has for all of us as humans. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): I was writing The Power of Now, and writing about accumulated emotions. And then I was taking a break and went into the park and sat on a bench by a pond, and I saw two ducks approaching on the pond, and suddenly, maybe one duck or, one duck got close, too close to the other. Suddenly they started getting into a fight. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It lasted for about 30 seconds, and then they both separated, swam off in opposite directions. They were still agitated, both of them, and then both ducks kind of lifted themselves up on the water and vigorously flapped their wings a few times. They almost stood up on the water, and going [makes noises]. And then suddenly they were totally peaceful again and swam off. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): They were doing cleansing breath. Dmitry did from Russia last week. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Cleansing. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Cleansing breath. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And I realized at that moment I had actually been writing about this, and the ducks were showing me how to, how they let go of what otherwise would have become accumulated negativity in the body, and so their instinctive natural intelligence takes over. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Is to, think it off. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And then I realized they all do it. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): All the ducks after a fight do that. And immediately that OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's like clearing their wings. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Clearing, the energy gets dissipated. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Wow. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And they are totally peaceful afterwards. And then, of course, they don't have the human mind, which repeats the story of, "What this duck did to me and what I'm going to do to this duck next time," or "I'm never going to get close to her anymore." Whatever the story is. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): How dare you come over to my side of the pond again. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Oh, yes. And then talk to other ducks about what the other, that duck did to you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And all the story-making because the story-making, that still goes on in the human mind, keeps the old emotion alive. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So you relive it again. The negativity is relived. The body believes it's still happening. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Because the body believes in what your mind is thinking.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because "although the body is intelligent, it cannot tell the difference between the actual situation and the thought." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. So whatever thoughts you're holding, that your body believes that is your reality. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Wow. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And the corresponding emotions will arise, and the corresponding physical states of contraction will be there. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Wow. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So this is howthat was the duck's lesson, so I put it into the book. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right. I mean, and we see so many people, I know I have friends who have been through divorce, and they live and still, you know, hating their ex-spouse and talking about their ex-spouse and what their ex-spouse did to them, and, you know, years after the spouse is gone. Yeah. Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And so that keeps it alive as if it were still happening. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): As if it were still happening. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And there's an addictive quality. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And that's in your mind. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It's in the mind. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's in your mind.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And it's addictive, there's an addictive quality to that. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): You need to see it in yourself to see that, is still the case for some of the people who are listening to us. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So it's like the monks, tell the monk story. I like the monk story; the two monks. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And the one monk picks up the girl on the road. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, that's the story of two monks on a pilgrimage, and they come across, in a village, they come across a young 17-year-old girl with a long kimono trying to cross a very muddy road, but she's not daring to step into the mud. So one monk picks her up, carries her across the road through the mud, puts her down. And so the monks walk on in silence for another four or five hours, just practicing noble silence. And then, after four or five hours, they're getting close to their destination, one monk says to the monk who had picked up the girl, "Oh, you know, you shouldn't have done that because we monks are not supposed to even to touch women. So you really, you shouldn't have picked up that girl. You're not supposed to do that." And so the other monk says, "Oh, are you still carrying that girl? I put her down hours ago." So the other monk was still carrying the girl, the event in his head. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Four hours later. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And for four hours he was walking with this burden. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And that shows the reluctance of the human mind to let go of the past. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. So how many of us reading this chapter are not carrying things from four hours ago, but carrying things from four years and 40 years ago?
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Who still holding onto what was done to them. Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes. That's a dreadful burden. It's like carrying a useless weight around with you. And some people carry it from all their lives, and they even derive some identity from that. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right, right. I had to learn years ago to let go of what had happened to me as a child because what I realized, you know, my grandmother, the people who took care of me did the best they knew how to do at the time. And if they had known better they would have done better. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, and that is always the case. Whatever humans have done to you, it's always they didn't know any better because they could only act according to their level of consciousness. Nobody can act beyond their level of consciousness. So you cannot expect your parents, if you believe they did something that was wrong, you cannot expect your parents to have acted beyond a level of consciousness. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Cause that's all they knew. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Jesus on the cross said it all when he says, "Forgive them, for they know not what they do," which means they are unconscious. So when you realize that, you'll naturally forgive. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's what Jesus meant. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. If he have lived now he probably would've said, "They are unconscious. They don't know." OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. Well Ros is on the phone from Sydney, Australia, and has a question about the pain-body and grief. Hello, Ros? ROS: Hi, Oprah. Hi Eckhart. Can I start by saying thank you both so much for helping to make my life feel lighter and less stressful. That's amazing. And for taking the time to answer all our questions. But in regard to the pain-body, I'd like to clarify, how do we honor the memory of our loved ones who have died and that we shed tears for and not add to our pain-body? I'm trying to work out, are we adding to our pain-body, or is this the type of sorrow from state of being?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You mean when you, the ability to grieve or not? ROS: Yeah, well, the best way I can describe it is I lost my dad six years ago, and most of the time I think of him and I have a smile on my face. But sometimes the tears flow for what I think is no apparent reason. Intellectually, I know crying won't bring him back and I can't change the past, but the tears just come. So am I adding to my pain-body by doing that? I feel I'm honoring my father's memory, but I'm sad at the time. So is that a negative emotion or is that something deeper down inside that is a natural thing and it's a part of my being? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): There's a natural mourning, of course, that happens when a loved one passes away. With some people, that also can turn into pain-body, and for example that would be the case if, is an excessive or exaggerated amount of sadness or depression. Some people, after a loved one dies, go through years of debilitating depression or they develop even extreme anger. That is also quite frequent that people develop anger when a loved one dies. And those are instances when the pain-body becomes activated through the death of a loved one. But that does not seem to be the case with you. So to allow mourning to happen, when it happens, can actually be a beautiful thing. Your mind, observe what your mind is doing and what kind of thoughts your mind is generating when you go through these periods of sadness or crying. Maybe your mind is not saying much at all. Maybe there's just emotion. And that can be quite beautiful, simply to allow this emotion of sadness, which is natural, after all, when somebody has passed away or when you remember a loved one. Allow this emotional sadness to be there, and you may actually find that underneath the sadness, there's still some peace. When you allow the emotion of mourning to be there, then you realize that underneath the seemingly negative emotion, there's still a deeper peace. I found that when my parents passed away a year-and-a-half ago, both of them within a few months, the sadness came, tears came periodically, and yet, through the acceptance of the emotion, there was an underlying peace that was deeper, even than the sadness. And so, and that comes with the acceptance of the emotion. And that's important for you. So I don't believe that in your case this is the pain-body. But I would suggest that you observe or perhaps you can tell me now what kind of thoughts your mind produces when you go through these periods of sadness or weeping. What does your mind say? ROS: Well, usually at the end I end up smiling again. It's just that I wonder whether the tears were a negative thing, or now, I don't suppose tears are a negative thing. But there are just times when I suppose it's that sense of loss that comes with it, which I know is, in a way, is adding pain to your life, but it's something you just, now I don't know, how do you explain, the void you feel inside when you lose someone. Admittedly, I'm not getting depressed about it, thank God, but I just wondered whether,
you know, logically I was adding pain to my life or whether it's just is something that if you can't stay detached and observe, you realize it's just part of who you are. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I think it is a part of who we are, and I recently just lost a loved one who happened to be a four-legged animal, my beloved little Sophie, I lost. ROS: Sophie died? OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. ROS: Oh, I'm sorry to hear that. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. And, you know, unless you have an animal who's a member of your family, a lot of people don't understand, but she was a member of my, she was as close to me as anybody has ever been in my life. And I will have to say that I miss her little body and I miss the, as I know you do with your loved one, you miss, I miss the physicality of her because she slept with me every single night, came to work with me every single day, has been at every event for the past 13 years. So I miss her physical body, but I actually feel closer to her, to the spirit of her, to the soul of her. I feel that the density of the body has allowed the spirit of her to be with me in a way that I never could really fully appreciate or absorb. So I actually feel closer to her. I feel the love that she was, in a way, that I did'nt even feel when she was alive. Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Did you sense that with your parents too? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So that's the peace you're talking about. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And actually, she died on the second night that we were doing this, on March the 10th. And I went home in the middle of the day, she died early in the morning. I cried, you know, all afternoon, I came here and allowed myself to be, to accept it, to go to that place where, all right, she's gone.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): She's gone. I'm not going to say, "Oh, why is she gone? Oh." All right, she's gone. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, and that's the acceptance. The acceptance OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And a peace comes with that. Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Because the void is the word, because a void is left when the form that was there, the body that was there suddenly is no longer. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right, that's the void you feel. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And that's the void, now, the void, when it's resisted, and it is resisted especially by the ego, the ego hates it, the ego doesn't want the void to be there, but when you can accept that now there is the void instead of the body, then something else shines through that void, which is formless. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So where the form once was, the formless can now shine through. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Absolutely. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And that's the beauty, then that's the grace that is hiding behind death or whatever, death of whatever kind. So there's always that. You have to look for that. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I see that. I see that. Do you see that, Ros? ROS: Yeah, that's inspirational. [unintelligible] makes me feel better now. Thank you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And what happens is, what happens is, Ros, if we spend our timeI always say when somebody you love dies, you now have an angel you know, and you can call the angel formless, or consciousness, or being, or whatever, but what happens is so many people are just caught up in the grief of it and the loss of it and resisting and wanting it to be the way it was. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Trying to hold onto the way it was. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Instead of accepting what is, and they don't allow the grace of the formless to come through. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That's right. And the grace cannot come through. That's right. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I got that. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yeah. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I hope you got that too, Ros. ROS: Yeah, thank you. That was, that was lovely. I really appreciate it. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you. ROS: Okay, God bless you both. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): God bless you. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Thank you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I love when you say that sometimes understanding the science, for me, sometimes understanding the science behind these concepts, as you're talking about, makes it easier. And you say on page 146, "All things are vibrating energy fields in ceaseless motion. The chair you sit on, the book you are holding appear solid and motionless only because that's how our senses perceive their vibrational frequency, that is to say, the increased movement of the molecules." And so we're all
vibrating at different frequencies, and the vibrational frequency of the pain-body resonates with that of negative thoughts. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Negative thoughts or, and other negative emotions coming from other people. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And then I love that you say this on page 152, you write on page 152, I think this is great here. "If you were not familiar with our contemporary civilization, if you had come here from another age or another planet, one of the things that would amaze you is that millions of people love and pay money to watch humans kill and inflict pain on each other and call it 'entertainment.'" When I read it, I thought, yeah, if you're from another planet, you'd think, "What is that?" So what is that that people love that? I mean, the most violent movies, particularly this year for Academy Awards, most of the movies were violent movies, destructive, you know. All those painbodies up there on the screen. And what is it about a lot of the public that enjoys that? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Well, it's the, if it's, in some cases, violence may actually helpful to see because it shows the human madness. If it shows the wider context in which violence happens, if it shows the psychological dysfunction behind violence, then it can be helpful. But most of these movies are, contain violence that is actually meant to feed the pain-body. And it is the pain-body in the viewers who enjoy those films that enjoys the violence. But it's not actually the people themselves who pay money to see these movies, it's the pain-body in them that feeds on the violence that it watches. And the people who produce these movies probably OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Their pain-bodies are writing them. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): The pain-bodies write them, the pain-bodies write the movies, the pain-bodies produce them, and the painbodies watch them. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, this comes from a screenwriter, Lana, who's in her study in Copenhagen? And has a question. LANA: Copenhagen. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Copenhagen. Hello, Lana from Copenhagen. LANA: Hi Oprah. Hi Eckhart.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Hello. LANA: Eckhart, I also have a cold, so I hope I sound as sexy as you do. So yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I like your flowers on the wall, may I say? I like your art. Is that your, did you take those pictures yourself? LANA: Oh no . OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Oh, okay. LANA: I bought it from somebody. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay, okay, great. LANA: Yeah. But, I'm a screenwriter, I'm also a producer, and after reading this chapter it just floored me on so many levels. I write pieces that involve scenes that may have violence, it may have a death, it may have rape. But I try not to be gratuitous, but after reading this chapter, I wasn't quite sure how to be sure. And one particular experience that I had really kind of put me in a tailspin about how to create content, how to create media projects going forward after reading this book. I had a few friends over for dinner, Danish friends of mine, and I've learned so many from the Danish people, they're wonderful, wonderful people. And at the time there was in the news at the beginning of this year, a lot of what they call second generation kids were burning cars here in Denmark. And a friend of mine made the comment to me, "Well, I don't understand how people can burn their own neighborhoods." And that hit me like a ton of bricks. And although I was too young to remember the riots after Martin Luther King died, I remember that comment being spoken by Americans. So here I am in Denmark and kind of hearing the same type of conversation. And I felt like my first response was, "I've got to do a documentary on this." And so I started making the phone calls to do whatever I needed to do to talk to traditional Danes and also, second generation Danish people. But then I read the chapter, and I wondered whether or not my pain-body as an African-American was now entering into this situation, and you know, creating something that may kind of negatively affect the pain-body of another group of people. So I questioned whether or not I wanted to do this documentary. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So what is your question? What is your question to us? LANA: My question is, in this situation that I just described, the pain-body that led me to come up for the idea for this documentary, I think it comes from my experience of being an African-American.
And that I want to bring people together, I want to kind of not allow a situation that's not necessary to just go unchecked. And I feel like media can do that. A documentary can open up that dialogue. But I'm wondering if my pain-body, since it created this idea for a documentary, is this something that will help both sides, or am I just speaking to pain-bodies, to other pain-bodies? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Well, I don't believe necessarily that your pain-body came up with the idea of making this documentary about the violence that's happening in Denmark. And I believe that you will probably show the wider context in which this violence happens and the root causes of this violence, not only historical but perhaps also psychological. And if all these things are included in the film, then to show violence can actually fulfill a useful purpose. That's why I mentioned in the book that some of the most powerful anti-war films were war films because those films showed the reality of war, not some glamorized version of war for the pain-body to feed on. So if you show reality and the underlying causes and the wider context, then those films are not going to feed the pain-body because they will help people become more conscious and perhaps not prematurely judge the people who are carrying out these acts of vandalism or whatever it is, to see perhaps what lies behind it. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Correct. Thank you Lana, thank you so much. LANA: Thank you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I think it's interesting, though, on page, what Lana's talking about, what you talk about on page 159, that as there are individual pain-bodies that each of us carries because of whatever negativity happened in our lives and we didn't completely deal with that at the moment, that there is also a collective pain-body that nations carry and races carry. And you say, "The collective racial pain-body is pronounced in Jewish people who suffered persecution over many centuries. Not surprisingly, it's strong as well in Native Americans, whose numbers were decimated, whose culture all but destroyed by the European settlers. In black Americans too, for whom the collective pain- body is pronounced. Their ancestors violently uprooted, beaten into submission, and sold into slavery. The foundation of American economic prosperity rested on the labor of four to five million black slaves. In fact, the suffering inflicted on Native and Black Americans has not remained confined to those two races, but has become part of the collective American pain-body. It is always the case that both victim and perpetrator suffer the consequences of any acts of violence, oppression, or brutality. For what you do to others, you do to yourself." I think that there is not an understanding, and actually, Senator Obama in his speech a couple of weeks ago was trying to speak to this. This collective pain-body that America holds. And I think a lot of Americans, number one, don't know it exists and want to deny that it does exist because they say, "I didn't have anything to do with slavery," or "I didn't have anything to do with the Native Americans." Correct?
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, that's right. Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And to not to recognize it is what? Is to be in denial of what is the truth. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And then it continues to be there without you knowing it. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So that's, that's where OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Cause the recognition of it is the beginning of being able to change it, right? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, that's right. And I believe since you mentioned Senator Obama, there was this controversy about the pastor who was making certain remarks. I believe that the pastor who has probably helped many, many people over many years, occasionally, when he speaks, as far as I can tell, he gets taken over by the pain-body. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): By the pain-body. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And then the pain-body speaks through him. And it's understandable and I think beneath, Obama understands that, although he may not use the term, or be familiar with the term, "pain-body," but he understands the wider context for those remarks and he realizes that it arises out of the collective pain. So, and once you see that these things arise out of the collective pain, you can see them in a much wider perspective, and you don't personalize what this person is saying. It's not personal anymore. He's expressing collective pain. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You also talk about this when it comes to women. Pretty revolutionary on page 155. You say, "The suppression of the feminine principle especially over the past two thousand years has enabled the ego to gain absolute supremacy in the collective human psyche. Although women have egos, of course the female form is less rigidly encapsulated than the male, and has greater openness and sensitivity toward other life-forms. If the balance between a male and
female energies," I found this so fascinating, "had not been destroyed on our planet," you say, "the ego's growth would have been greatly curtailed. With many people becoming more conscious, the ego is losing its hold on the human mind. Because the ego was never as deeply rooted in women, it's losing its hold on women more quickly than on men." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes. And OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. It's, you know what, reading this as a female living in the world today, able to make choices, and be my own person, and express myself, I had forgotten about the years and years of torture and suppression and, you know, killing of women were the most natural things because you liked animals, because you were a midwife, because you were a woman who wanted to have a voice. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Tortured, killed. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Hundreds of millions of women. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And it's the, what I'm saying is the arising ego OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And that happened because of the ego in the male. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes. So it's not the male as such, it was the growing ego OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Rising ego. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): in the male that had to, that saw the feminine principle and the feminine energy as a threat because it could not fully establish itself in that. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You believe we would've had a "new earth" a lot sooner if there had been not the suppression of the female.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, probably, yes. But the shift is happening now, and the interesting thing is that there are more women changing, going through the shift in consciousness than men. So men are going through, also, but there are, for example, Elizabeth Lesser mentioned at her, at the Omega Institute, about 70, 75 percent of the people who come there for inner work, consciousness, transformation and so on are women. So women are more open now to the change in consciousness that is happening than men. I'm not saying it's not happening to men also, but there's a greater openness OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, we have a few out there. We love it. Yeah. Audrey in Campbell, California, one of our e-mails says, "I have 20 pounds to lose. As a child my father and brother called me 'big girl' and 'big fat cow.'" That's not good. Could this be why, Audrey, that's not good at all. "Could this be why I have such difficulty losing the weight? I've been hearing these words in my head for years and years, and I can't let the words go. Help." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. So, of course, these words have become lodged in your mind, and they have taken up residence in your mind, and now you can't get rid of them. So they areagain, thoughts are energy formations and thoughts that get lodged in your mind, sometimes they start in childhood when parents tell you something negative. For example, some parents tell their children, "You are stupid." It's a stupid thing to say. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. It's a stupid thing to say that kids are stupid. Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And if told that repeatedly, this thought becomes lodged in their minds. And it's a, a thought can, if you're not, if you don't bring presence to it now, you won't be able to dislodge it. So the first thing is to realize that what has happened to you is that something that you were told years ago repeatedly is now, has now become a thought that refuses to leave. It's an energy. You're possessed, so to speak, temporarily, hopefully, by a thought. Some of you may have seen a film called The Number 23 with Jim Carrey last year, and that's a man who becomes obsessed with the idea of the number 23. And he sees it, suddenly he sees everywhere significance in the number 23. And that's an example of how one thought can take possession of your entire mind. And then through this one thought that takes possession of your entire mind, you interpret the whole universe, the whole of reality. This is how dangerous it can be, if you are not careful, how one thought can take you over. So realize, the questioner here needs to realize that is an old thought and realize it's no more than a thought, it is not the truth. It's an old record that has been playing itself over the years.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Over and over in your head. "Big fat cow, big fat cow, big fat cow." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. No more than an old OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's just a tape. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No more than a tape. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): [unintelligible] ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So when you hear it again, when you hear that in your mind, you realize, there's the old tape again. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It loses its power because it's no more than that. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right. There's an old tape for the past and the past has no power over the present moment. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You're right. I love also when you say that thinking is no more than a tiny aspect of the totality of consciousness, the totality of who you are. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I had an awakening moment with that thought because we all think we are, up until reading this book, I think so many of us, I was one of those people, thinking that we were our thoughts. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And then to read that thinking, not only are we not our thoughts, we are the awareness of our thoughts. But that thinking is only no more than a tiny aspect of the totality of consciousness, the totality of who you are.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And the awareness, of course, compared to thinking, the awareness is vast. It's limitless and has infinite potential for anything creative to come into your life. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Cause that's where all your creative comes from. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, not through thinking. Thinking can become a secondary tool in manifesting something, but not the creative. Inside the creative realization, the creative idea does not come through the movement of thinking. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Wow. Think about that, everybody. That when you have a creative, an, inspiration does not come through your thoughts. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It comes through your being. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And so the space of awareness OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Space of awareness. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Now, to the extent to which you are creative in your life depends on how much access you have in yourself to that space of awareness, of presence. And it's sometimes enough for brief moments to have access to that, and for some people, that's enough to lead a creative life. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): But, of course, we want to be more than that, not just have brief access, but to make it the very foundation of your life. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's like when Quincy Jones was doing "We Are the World" tape and he brought together all of those artists and he left the door open. First, they had a sign outside the door
that said, "Check your egos at the door." And then they left the door open. He said, "We wanted to leave room for God to walk into the room." Have, leave enough space for God to walk into the room. Yes. Cause that's ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Yes. So you need to, leaving the space. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Leaving the space. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Leaving the space inside yourself. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So, also, if you want change in your life, some people don't know, there will be chapters and we'll talk about life purpose and so on, but the realization of what it is, for example, what it is that you are meant to do in your life also comes from that inner space. Are you able to allow the space within? Become still, and then whatever it is that you need to know will arise from that. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Come through that. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Will come through that space. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And it may come as a thought, but then it will be an inspired thought. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Without the space, without the stillness, without accessing that dimension, thinking cannot be inspired. There is no inspired thinking. The inspiration comes from the realm that is deeper than thought. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I got that. And you're never going to think your way to a purpose.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No. And you're not going to worry your way out of a problem. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You're not going to worry your way out of a problem. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It's impossible because worry means to manufacture more problems. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): The same thing. You're just continuing the same thought over and over. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. You need a different kind of consciousness. Wasn't it Einstein that said that? The same kind of consciousness ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, I don't remember whether it was Einstein or Jung, but the, he said to the, a problem cannot be solved on the same level of consciousness that gave rise to the problem. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That created it. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): We have an e-mail from Judy in Columbia, South Carolina. "Could you talk a bit about alcohol and drug abuse in the pain-body? Is this an attempt at escape from the painbody; alcohol and drug abuse? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, often it is. And I mention that in the book. It's an escape of not wanting to feel the pain anymore. In some people, the pain-body is active almost all the time, and that is dreadful way to live. And those people in whom the pain-body is active almost all the time, often they will seek some kind of escape from it because they can't live with that pain anymore. The pain-body loves it, but it makes your life more and more miserable. So, but there is also a good chance and maybe that brings us to the, what connects us with the, what I said in the book, if people who have a heavy pain-body, their chance of awakening is also quite great because when life becomes unbearable because you're creating so much pain continuously for yourself, your desire to awaken, to finally get out of this misery is much greater than a normal person's desire to awaken. In other words, you could say when you're having a relatively pleasant dream, you don't mind so much dreaming on. But when your dream turns into a nightmare, then you really want to awaken from that, and you can't stand it. And that was the case with me. I had a very, very heavy pain-body that drove me almost, very close to suicide until I, the realization came,
"I cannot live with myself any longer." And that thought was the breakthrough where the separation happened from consciousness that I am and the ego, and the pain-body that I had been identified with as the unhappy little me. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Were you really actually going to kill yourself? Did you have a plan to kill yourself? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, I had my first plans to kill myself, I already had at the age of 9 and 10. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Really? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yeah. So I had worked it all out, but somehow I didn't quite have the courage yet to do. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Cause the pain-body was so heavy even at 9 and 10? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Already then it was quite heavy. Then it subsided a little bit, and then it came back again very strongly in my 20s. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Wow. And what was it? What was it that caused you to feelyou felt depressed, you felt unworthy, you felt what? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It was partly living in almost continuous conflict in the home environment between my parents, who were always fighting. There was very little peace at home. I was very sensitive, so it was very hard for me to even be there at home. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): As you say in the book, for children who watch their parents fight, it's almost unbearable. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And that, of course, contributes to their, a child's growing pain-bodies. So my pain-body grew very quickly and, but if this had not been the case, I wouldn't ever have awakened. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): I would have been in a relatively pleasant dream. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right. If you had had a nice, happy childhood, you might not be sitting here teaching with us tonight. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Certainly not. No, no. So retrospectively, one is grateful for one's suffering because eventually suffering will wake you up. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You said, when I read earlier on page 141 about "any negative emotion that's not fully faced and seen for what it is in the moment it arises does not completely dissolve. It leaves behind a remnant of pain." So when we are faced with negative emotions on a daily basis, we should embrace them, we should go into them rather than resist them. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Accept whatever emotion. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Accept it. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Accept because it's part of accepting the present moment because if a certain negative emotion is part of what's happening in the present moment, what can you do? It's already happening, so you OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Take it. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Take it. (unintelligible) "Oh, there it is. I can feel that anger. I can feel the sadness. I can feel it." Be the space for it. So accept that it is there. The acceptance of the present moment, no matter what form it takes, externally or internally, whatever form it takes, externally means whatever situation arises right now, it always is as it is at this moment. You might as well say yes to it. Internally means whatever emotion arises at this moment it is as it is, you might as well say yes to it. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, I know next week we're going to be talking about breaking free of the pain-body, but just for now, if every time you can see it show itself and recognize it for what it is, "There it is, there's my pain-body again. There it is again," that the awareness of it begins to dissolve it, correct?
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. Let's go to our New Earth study group watching our webcast. Hey everybody at Borders on Michigan. Hi, are you enjoying the class tonight? CROWD: Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Interesting. All the pain-bodies have gathered together at Borders. I hear Courtney has a question. COURTNEY: Yes, yes, I have a question. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Hi. COURTNEY: I think a lot, so what I'm curious to know, you know, when I'm not in a relationship, I obsess that I'm going to be alone. And when I'm in a relationship, I obsess about my career or money or anything, and I think a lot of people my age obsess thisyou know, money, career, finding a relationship. What you say in the book, Eckhart, makes sense but what, I guess I'm having trouble with is taking that and actually putting it, you know, changing my life, you know, kind of daily, I guess. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I love the "Makes sense, butwhat you say makes sense, but...' Go ahead. COURTNEY: Well, it does make sense, but then I just don't know, I guess, I guess I'm having trouble putting that into my daily life. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, actualize it. COURTNEY: How do I not obsess or thinking about these things all the time and try and stay in the present? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Well, when you say "obsess," of course you're talking about certain thoughts that go through your head. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, over and over and over. COURTNEY: Right, over and over and over.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So are you able sometimes to, while these thoughts go through your head, to recognize the futility of these thoughts? Are you sometimes able to be there as the presence in the background, or see, for example, just after they happened, for the, let's see, for example, realize, "For the past 20 minutes I've been obsessing about this or that. I'm having thoughts about a certain situation that's not here now." And that's part, of course, of the structure of the egoic mind. It loves to do that. Are you sometimes already there as the presence or not? Are you always totally identified with the COURTNEY: No, sometimes I am. And in the hindsight I can go back and realize what I've done. But it's in the moment when I'm doing this and I, and my mind just won't stop, you know, it just keeps going and going, and I keep thinking about things, that it's hard to stop, I think. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. COURTNEY: And I kind of realize what I will realize eventually. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Now, something applies that we talked about the other week when we are talking about worry. Worry is another type of that kind of thinking, what you call obsessing. These thoughts, the way I put it two weeks ago was these thoughts pretend to be important and necessary. These thoughts want to draw in all your conscious attention. It's almost as if every thought were saying, "Give me your attention, this is very important, you must think about this, think, think." COURTNEY: Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So these, the thoughts have the ability, they have a certain momentum behind them. This is the momentum of the mind. And so it's not easy to become free of that. But the first freedom is in realizing their futility in the moment they happen. And to realize that it is, they fulfill no useful purpose except to make your life miserable. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. Because what has the obsessing gotten you? What does it do for you? COURTNEY: Absolutely nothing. Worry, more worry. Yeah. It's just kind of an idea how to be, how to just
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And, also, it takes energy away from your being. It takes energy away from your being able to be fully present with whatever it is you're doing. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You can see that, right? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You see that. COURTNEY: Oh yeah, yeah. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. COURTNEY: It's just at the time sometimes it's not so. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So rather than trying to get rid of those thoughtsbecause what you resist persists. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): If you try to get rid of those thoughts, that will be hard. But if you see they are futile and they are meaningless and they are no more than part of the structure of the conditioned egoic mind, because if you change your situation, you will obsess about something else, you've experienced that already. So if you're in a relationship, you have, then have some other thing to obsess about. If there's no relationship, you can obsess about the lack of relationship. COURTNEY: Yup. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yup. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): If you're, or if you're making money, you can obsess about perhaps losing it, perhaps the financial market will collapse.
COURTNEY: Exactly. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And, or if you have no money, then you obsess about how to make money. So, see the futility of all this movement of thought in the moment it happens and realize it actually takes away your power. It's like a little parasite. Egoic thought patterns are almost like a parasitic entity that lives in you, and it sucks up all your conscious attention. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You got that, right Courtney? COURTNEY: Oh yeah. It makes sense now, it's just when I'm going through it, I can't stop. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. Well, the thing to do is all of this doesn't, happening, you know, awakening doesn't happen all at once. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): The whole process is you have to catch yourself doing it more and more often. You start slowly, and more and more often you catch yourself and pretty soonor lateryou'll findyeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes. Or another thing that might be helpful is when the mind is not overly active, just normal moments, occasionally choose to take your attention away from thinking. We mentioned it earlier. And bring your attention to the present moment. Either use the device of feeling the inner body, conscious breath, sense perceptions, consciousness, alert sense perceptions. So choosing to be present rather than to be thinking. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And what that does is you begin to train yourself. You begin to train yourself to be present with yourself. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That's right. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's about present moment training.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Training. Or, and you grow, and then presence grows in you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes, it does. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): But you have to invite it in. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Invite it in when the mind is not totally mad. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And then when the mind does become, when these periods come when it gets totally mad, then it's more likely that there will still be a presence there in the background. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Still can take a breath. COURTNEY: Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I'm getting better at it. I've gotten better in the past five weeks. And you will too, Courtney. COURTNEY: Thank you. Thank you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you. Thanks, everybody, at Borders, thank you all. Okay, somebody asked earlier, there was an e-mail where somebody wanted to know, and I didn't get to it, wanted to know whether or not that pain-body allows artists and writers and creative people to be more creative, the pain-body. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): There are, especially in modern art and modern writing, there are some artists who express the pain-body in their work. So when you read their work or when you see their visual art, you can see, "Wow, there's a
lot of pain in there." And perhaps that is how they free themselves, to some extent, of the pain-body because they externalize it and make it into an object out there. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. You can take that suffering and turn it into something else. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Now, whether this will be, whether this is really helpful to many humans, I don't know, to see so much pain on a canvas. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): I'm sure it was helpful for the artist to externalize that. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So I believe that the deepest art goes deeper than that and just show the pain, the human pain. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It goes, it might, may also include the human pain, but like the great works of literature are not just expressions of human suffering, they also show a dimension that's beyond suffering. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. Well, another question from Mary in Birmingham, Michigan. "Politics in the pain-body," she writes. "Is it the pain-body that leads us to be fascinated with others' downfalls, such as the governor of New York and mayor of Detroit? I find myself eagerly watching the news to hear more about the scandals. I find myself wondering what I would do if I were in their place, having risen so high, so successful and fallen so far, fallen so far." That's Mary in Birmingham, Michigan. Is that our pain-body that loves to hear bad things about other people? The tabloids? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, hearing OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Even watching the news, things that are true, scandals.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Loving bad news. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes, loving bad news. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Is also of the pain-body. And so there are some, some publications actually thrive on emotional negativity. They actually, they sell a negative emotion. Some newspapers do it in their headlines, and because they have realized the more negative the headlines are, the more papers they sell. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, you were saying the British press love it. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): They love it. Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. And we do too now in our country. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yeah. Yeah. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): More and more tabloid newspapers, tabloid magazines, following the lives of famous people. People love to see famous people fail, fall. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And is, that's our pain-body? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Whatever, whenever you see in that negativity, the enjoyment of negativity in whatever form, or the enjoyment of negative events, the enjoyment of negative things happening to people, the enjoyment of your own negative thinking, all that is pain-body. It lovers pain and lives on it. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And loves drama. It seeks drama. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Drama is part of that pain, yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. That story you told about going into the restaurant. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Oh yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. Oh my gosh. Going into the restaurant and this guy is all disrupted. Wow. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, but the, it was particularly strange because it happened immediately after I'd had a session with a woman who had a very heavy pain-body at home. She came to see me at home, and she had carried this pain-body for many, many years. It was so heavy that one could almost sense it in the energy field. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. We've all encountered people like that where it's deep, it's heavy, it's dark. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes, yes. So I had been doing work with her, and suddenly she became conscious. She was able to separate suddenly for the first time in her life, she was able to separate herself from the pain-body, and there was an awareness that realized she was carrying this heavy pain-body inside. That was a great liberation for her, and she went off and said, "Oh, this is wonderful, thank you so much." And that was the beginning of the change in her. And after this session with the woman I went off to the restaurant. And I felt so happy that the pain-body had left her, not left her permanently, but the awareness had come in. And then, in the restaurant, I encountered a man in a wheelchair at a table nearby who had just finished his meal, and then I could feel the negative emotion in him building up becoming stronger and stronger and stronger, and suddenly he started shouting and screaming. And the, I realized I had a suspicion that the pain-body, the universal pain-body, because every person or pain-body is the expression of the one human universal pain-body, that the pain-body had come back there to tell me, "I'm still here. You thought you got rid of me, but I'm still here." So the pain-body got into the person who had the most negativity inside. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Cause the person with the most negativity would have drawn that.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Drawn it in, yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But did you, at the end of this incident in the book that you write about, and the restaurant owner says, "Did you do all this, did you cause this?" ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): See, the restaurant owner must have had some intuition that there was some connection. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Between you sitting in the restaurant. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And every, and all this disruption. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yeah. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And so the answer is? Did you? Did the pain-body follow you into the restaurant? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): I never knew the answer. It occurred to me that that might have happened. All it means is that the energy that was so heavy, the room, my place where she had come to see me was so heavy with that energy when I left, perhaps it came with me. And it's possible. I don't know the final answer to that, but it's a possibility. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Cause yeah, cause as we were saying earlier, you speak of the painbody like if it's an alien force, like it's like a ghost of some kind. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But it is. It's not a ghost; it's an energy. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It's an energy. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's an energy field.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And it becomes, eventually it becomes transmuted, which means it loses its energy for its pain-body form, and the very energy that was trapped there, because the energy was trapped, it was emotional energy that was trapped inside this shell, that becomes freed through presence. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So that's what we're going to talk about next week is how you can begin to free the pain-body or any energy that you're carrying from the past. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And you can see it instantly. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): You free it instantly, but although not the whole of it necessarily instantly, but in the moment some of it can become transmuted. And I'll, the example I give is like, it's like putting a log into the fire. The fire is the fire of consciousness or presence. And so the pain-body can actually be transmuted and becomes presence. We'll talk about that next week. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Next week. Before we say goodbye, though, let's sum up what we've covered in this class today. What do you want people to know about the pain-body? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): The most vital thing is for people to be there when it happens. Now, when it happens means it's either happening to somebody close to you at home, your partner or family member or, more importantly, when the pain-body happens to you. Now, it's easier to realize that the pain-body's there when you see it arising in somebody else. Always easier. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): In other people. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): You'll require more presence to see it in yourself. But that's the vital thing is to be there and realize it, that's the pain-body. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, the way you know it's in yourself is when you start to tell yourself a story. The woman who was the big fat cow or her family had called her a big fat cow her whole life, when you start to, replaying the tapes in her head over and over again, my story, my story, my story, identifying with that, anything you identify with is ego.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. That's how you know it's the pain-body. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, or a sudden emotion arises. Something, your partner made a remark, said something and an enormous, an emotional [unintelligible] is that it's out of proportion to the external trigger. And that could be the beginning of arising pain-body. So then you say, "Oh, there's the pain-body." Then you're already, you're not at the mercy of the pain. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So let me ask you this. On the night that you had that, you know, the breakthrough where you said, "I cannot live with myself any longer," did you lose your pain-body too? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, that was just one happy day, wasn't it? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That's quite rare. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Oh my goodness. You lost your ego, you lost your pain-body, what a day that was. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yeah, well. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): After years of dreadful suffering. So that's the, one more thing to say about the pain-body is when you see it in somebody else, you have to be very careful. The pain-bodies don't like to hear that they are the pain-body. So when you're talking to somebody like your partner, you have to be very careful because once the partner has already been taken over by the pain-body, if at that stage you say, "There's your pain-body," your partner won't hearing you anymore, the pain-body will be hearing you, and the painbody will say something back, and it won't be pleasant. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Will defy you. And it won't be pleasant. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And you can't argue with the pain-body. No way you can ever
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Can't? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): You can't, you can never win an argument with the pain-body, it'll always win, the pain-body will win. It'll go on and on and on and finds another clever argument why the pain is justified and right. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And so it's like our first caller from Silver Spring was talking about her sister. What we must learn to do is be compassionate. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Stand still. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Stand still, as I said with the poem. Stand still and allow it to be whatever it is. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And then ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And then you don't feed it. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You don't feed it. Don't allow yourself to be drawn into, pulled into the drama of it. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And if the pain-body is not fed, then it won't sustain itself for that long. It will have to seek some other place where it will get fed or it will subside. So that's the beauty when you're in a relationship. If both partners are conscious enough, you can have an agreement that says, "If I observe the pain-body beginning in you, or you observe the pain-body beginning in me, please let me know." OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You're going to point it out.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): You have to point it out at the beginning before it takes over completely because once it's taken over completely, the person won't be hearing you anymore. But at the beginning, you could still say, "Could that be your pain-body?" Even that is dangerous, but you can try. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "No, it's not my pain-body!" Well, thanks to everybody around the world for joining us. Again, this fifth class will be available on demand tomorrow for free, of course, here at Oprah.com. And if you want to download or watch any of our classes, you can do that, also, tomorrow. All of them are available at Oprah.com and iTunes. It's free. Thanks to Nature Made Softgel vitamins. Don't forget to update your workbook and get ready for next week's class. Again, we thank you. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Thank you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): We thank you. You're a man without a pain-body. We'll see you in class next time. Thank you. Goodnight, everybody.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Welcome, everybody, to class six of our New Earth Web series with author Eckhart Tolle. We're live again tonight, and one of the things that we both look forward to every week is the energy that we feel from all of you out there who've signed on from your living room couches, from your kitchen tables, your home offices and dens and family rooms. I consider this to be a sacred moment where we can come together in community this way and share in this work. So wherever you are right now, I thank you, Eckhart Tolle thanks you for awakening with us. One of my other favorite books is a booking that Eckhart Tolle had written, I don't know how many years ago, a couple? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): A few years ago. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): A few years ago. And it's a little book with wonderful passages in it, and it's called Stillness Speaks. It really speaks to, just on a different level, what we've been talking about in New Earth, and I wanted to begin tonight's class before we begin our moments of silence here, reading from the beginning of Stillness Speaks by Eckhart Tolle. And it says, "Stillness is your essential nature. What is stillness? The inner space or awareness in which the words on this page are being perceived and become thoughts. Without that awareness, there would be no perception, no thoughts, no world. You are that awareness disguised as a person." I just love that, "that you are the awareness." That's what we've been saying week after week here is that you're not your thoughts. You are the awareness of your thoughts. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Disguised as a person. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And you're not your sense perceptions. You are the awareness that makes all sense perception possible. You're not your emotions. You're the awareness that makes all these emotions possible. So that's the that's the dimension where you are timeless. Everything else is time. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So "when you lose touch with your inner stillness, you lose touch with yourself. When you lose touch with yourself, you lose yourself in the world. Your innermost sense of self, of who you are, is inseparable from stillness. This is the I Am that is deeper than name and form. You are the awareness disguised as a person." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes.
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OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So I think we should have our moment of silence leading into that. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. So I suggest to use again thewhat I sometimes call the "anchor of the inner body" so that we can put our attention into the inner body and fully inhabit the body, be in the body and feel the aliveness that pervades the entire body. And that's where our attention is, and that is our anchor for stillness. So let's do that now. Attention moves away from thinking into the aliveness of the inner body. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): All right. That is beautiful. So everybody, tonight we're discussing Chapter 6, "Breaking Free." Let's start with an overview of what this chapter is really about. In Chapter 5, as you all know, we met the pain-body, and that'swe all know what that is; that part of us that's addicted to negativity and unhappiness, and Eckhart says that the beginning of freedom from the painbody lies, first of all, in the realization that we all have a pain-body. That was Chapter 5. We did that last week. Now in Chapter 6, we're going to explore what triggers the pain-body in our everyday lives and whether it's a situation or certain things other people do or say. Eckhart shows us how that we can actually use those triggers to enter a more heightened state of awareness. And also, this chapter is about breaking free of the pain-body so you don't have to continually carry the past and everything that happened in the past and what people did to you, your story. You can release that. Tonight is about breaking free. At the beginning of the chapter on page 162, you say that when you disidentify with the pain-body, "the energy that was trapped in the pain-body," you say, "then changes itself, its vibrational frequency, and is transmuted into Presence. In this way, the pain-body becomes fuel for consciousness. This is why many of the wisest, most enlightened men and women on our planet had a heavy painbody," you say. So what I want to ask is that so many people today medicate themselves. Any uncomfortable feelings that you have, you go to a psychiatrist or counselor, whomever; the first thing they do is prescribe medication for you. Does medication get in the way of using the pain-body as fuel for enlightenment? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): To a large extent it does. There may be certain extreme cases when medication is necessary, and for people who already are on medication, it's certainly not advisable to go off medication without the advice of a doctor. So if you feel that it's time for you to get off, talk to a doctor who is relatively conscious and can help you gradually to get off the medication. So it's really a question of not giving in to this culturally conditioned behavior that says whenever you feel some discomfort inside yourself, emotional disturbance, immediately to seek some external help in the form of a substance, that you ask your doctor to give you, rather, learn to be with inner comfort that arises, learn to be with emotional pain that arises. Rather than wanting to eliminate it, learn to accept it. Acceptance is one of the main focal points of this teaching. Learn to accept whatever emotion arises in you rather than run away from it or wanting to eliminate it. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But whythis is the thing, Eckhart, why would I want to accept it? That's why people are medicating themselves.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's why people eat, they gamble, they overwork themselves, they live in denial, they become unconscious because they don't want to deal with the pain. That's what we're all trying to get away from is the pain. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes. Now, if you medicate it, it doesn't actually go away. It dulls the pain so that you are not conscious of it anymore. It's still there in the background. It's the same thing for many illnesses. For example, I had a heavy cold a couple weeks ago. I didn't take anything. Some people take things so the symptoms are suppressed of the cold. It doesn't suppress the cold, the cold is still there. So why accept it? It's because it is here at this moment. So it's part of bringing this inner yes to whatever arises in the present moment. It is part of becoming friendly with the present moment even if on the surface, the present moment doesn't look that great. So we are bringing, and this is where the awareness begins to come into the emotion, if we bring acceptance to whatever we feel at this moment, rather than not wanting to feel it, the equivalent of that would be an external situation that arises, and then I resist it because I don't want the situation to be as it is, but it already is. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Then you just cause stress whenand that's what you say in this book, and also in "The Power of Now," wanting something to be different than it is is what causes stress. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And creates further negative emotion if there's some emotion in you that is not pleasant and then you don't want to be feeling what you feel, creates, on top of the old emotion that's already there, another negative emotion that wants to deny what's there. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So the best thing to do is to feel it, accept it, allow the feeling to do whatever it's going to do to you, make you feel sad, or angry, or upset, or whatever, and then choose to do something about that. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Or not. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Realize first that you are the awareness for that emotion; you are the space for it. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You are the awareness disguised as a person. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): You are not the emotion, you're the awareness.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You're not the emotion. Okay. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So then already a shift has happened because if you completely identify with the emotion, then the emotion will very quickly rise into your mind, and it will control your thinking. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And you will think it's you. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, you will think it's you. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So you will be identified with the emotion, let's say it's anger that arises; a slight trigger triggers enormous anger, and immediately you start to think angry thoughts. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Correct. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Or if it's sadness or depression, you immediately start to think thoughts that reflect the emotion, and the pain-body loves that because the pain-body will feed on the energy of your thinking. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And once you are trapped in the vicious circle between emotion and emotional thinking when all the selftalk in your head, that is, everybody experiences most of the time, self-talk in the head then becomes the voice of the pain-body that is talking in your head. And then all your interpretations of other people, of events will be totally distorted and very negative. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because you say at the bottom of page 162, "when you realize that painbodies unconsciously seek more pain, that is to say, they want something bad to happen, you'll understand that many traffic accidents are caused by drivers whose pain-bodies are active at the time. When two drivers with active pain-bodies arrive at an intersection at the same time, the likelihood of an accident is many times greater than under normal circumstances." So is it always the pain-body that attracts accidents and other bad things? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No. No. That's just one factor that is often there, but there are many other factors that could attract an accident. Many people are not fully present when they drive. I remember there was a sad story some years ago of a famous actor who got thrown off his horse and then had a spinal injury.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. Christopher Reeve. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, and he passed away, I think, a couple of years ago. And I remember seeing the interview with him when he talked about that incident. He loved riding, and so he was horse riding, and he said for one moment he lost the present moment while he was riding his horse, and at that moment he got thrown off the horse. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Wow. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And he said that was one moment of unawareness and it happened. But then he actually grew tremendously inside after the accident because he brought complete acceptance to what happened to him. And so there was an enormous awakening that happened in him before he passed away. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Even though he was paralyzed. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, Dave is Skyping us from his home office in Madison, Wisconsin. Dave, thank you for joining us. DAVE: Hi, Oprah. Hi, Eckhart. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Hi. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Hi. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Your question is? DAVE: First off, I just want to say thank you, thank you, thank you to both of you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You are welcome, welcome, welcome. DAVE: My question is, when my wife and I have a disagreement, she comes back hours or days later wanting to rehash that disagreement, and she always feels there has to be a wrong or a right to it, how can I get her to live in the present and get the ego out of the way? OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Were you watching last week when he told the story of the two monks?
DAVE: Yeah. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And what the monk said to the other monk, "You're still carrying that girl, I put her down hours ago." Was your wife DAVE: I want to us to become the two ducks. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You want to become the two ducks. Okay, good. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Now, you need to see what is your role when you have disagreements at home. I assume that your wife has a pain-body that becomes active at that time. And when you have disagreements, is your pain-body also a contributing factor at home, or do you feel that it is just your wife's pain-body? In other words, how do you feed intowhat is your part in the disagreement and in the energy field there? OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, how are you playing into the drama of it, Dave? DAVE: I don't stay play into the drama of it, and that seems to initially increase it more on her behalf. And then, but lately, after going through the book, I find that I look for a single thing, her eyes are beautiful, and I just think of those, and I take to a different place inside myself, and it seems that it kind of, it just diminishes on her behalf then. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Now, when you disagree or you have an argument, that means to some extent you must be identified with a mental position, and because if you don't have a mental position that you identify with, there is no argument. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Correct. That's why I said "hmm" to Dave. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): This, yes, so this is why Oprah was a little bit skeptical. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Skeptical, yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): When you were talking. So it's perhaps before we talk about your wife, maybe there's something that you can so that you left go of identification with mental positions when you discuss things. You can still discuss the practicality of certain things that you need to talk about, but don't become identified with a mental position of rightness that makes you right. Andbecause that is what the ego thrives on and that is what feeds the pain-body. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Whenever you identify with anything, it's the ego. That's interesting.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Whatever you identify with becomes ego. So perhaps bring more vigilance intoespecially when you see a situation is developing, that is going to become an argument, or you can see that the pain-body in your wife is becoming active again. And then it's a time of being particularly alert and vigilant inside yourself so that you do not get drawn into opposing her in any way. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And even, Dave, you know, the reason why I said "hmm" and was skeptical because of what Eckhart just said, if I may reiterate, if you aren'tif there's no drama involved at all with you, if you just become peace, then the argument has to dissolve. Like the womanthe story that he tells in the book of the woman who came and was so upset and carrying all the papers and the bills and so forth, and as he sat there just listening, taking it in, she finally said, "This doesn't matter, does it?" And left and went home, you remember that? DAVE: Yeah. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): From a couple old classes ago. And I understand what you're talking about because often, when you start reading this material and you start, you know, to awaken yourself, we become a little self-righteous about it, you know? So perhaps maybe there's a little bit of that still remaining with you where you want to say "I am so" Cause I know this happened with Stedman and myself. We're in a discussion, and I'm feeling, "Well, I am very awakened, I'm a very evolved person, so what you're saying is not going to upset me," but that attitude, the energy of that, my ego and my self-righteousness is what contributed to the drama, you see what I'm saying? DAVE: I do. I do. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. Your need to be right or your need to feel like, you know, "I'm a little bit more superior because I'm not engaging in this and you are." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Yes. So that's then =alertness and vigilance is very important on your part. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I think what you just said here is so important for every one of us who's trying to continue to awaken to this process, that whenever there's an argument or disagreement, the thing is is to not, and it's not to ever make it about the other person even though it seems to be. The question is not, "What can I do for my wife, for my partner, for my boss, for my co-worker?" But it is, "What can I do in the situation?" ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. That's OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. What is my contribution to it?
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That's right. That's primary. And then your wife, I don't know whether she has any interest in spiritual teaching or the pain-body, have you ever mentioned to her the pain-body? Not while there's a painbody attack happening, but when the pain-body is OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because you said nobody hears you when you say it. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No, because whenyou cannot talk to the pain-body about the pain-body. That was actually dangerous because the pain-body will throw something at you. So thedoes your wifewhat? OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I love it when you get tickled. Go ahead. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): I know pain-bodies, so theyso is your wife sometimes relatively more open to this than at other times? Or is she always not open to this, in your view? DAVE: She's not open to it to this point, but when I was running off the sheets for this week's class, she picked them up out of the printer, and she read them over, and she said, "Mm, you're talking about me." So maybe that opens the book. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Yes. Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Opens the door. Dave, thanks so much for your questions. Thanks so much. DAVE: Thank you. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Thank you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, "many acts of violence," you say on page 163, "are committed by 'normal' people who temporarily turn into maniacs." Does this mean that you think people are not responsible for what they do when possessed by the pain-body? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No, that's what I say, they are not responsible. As we mentioned last time Jesus on the cross when he said, "They know not what they do," meaning they are so unconscious, they are in the grip of an energy field at which they cannot control, they don't even know that they are in the grip of this energy field because it has taken complete possession of them. So in that sense, I say they are not responsible, which does
not mean that they do not suffer the consequences of their actions. So it almost looks like a little bit of a paradox. Yes. No, they are not responsible, nevertheless, karmically, they will suffer the consequences of their unconsciousness because human beings areour purpose is to evolve into conscious beings. So if we are not evolving into conscious beings, then we suffer. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): The more closed we are to this evolutionary impulse of evolving into consciousthe flowering of consciousnessthe more closed we are to this, the more we suffer. And so these people who inflict violence on others who make others suffer also make themselves suffer. And they suffer the consequences, karmically. And sometimes the karmic consequences come in the form of the legal system. So theythey are put away and so that represents for them at that time, karma. And then there's always a possibility when they are in deep suffering because of something that they did in a state of complete unconsciousness. When they then are in deep suffering, perhaps in prison, wherever they may be, there's always the possibility then of awakening through the suffering that they inflicted on themselves, on others also. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. Because you say on page 164, "When you can't stand the endless cycle of suffering anymore, you begin to awaken. So the pain-body too has its necessary place in a larger picture." There are a lot of people who never awaken. They just, you know, the pain-body just they die with it. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, that is true Then there's always a chance that the unawakened consciousness awakens in some other form, in some other situation. So but the entire universe is going in that direction of awakening. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Awakening. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So it is the more we are open to this as OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because we have to or we're going to die. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): We have to. Yes, as the human species now OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): We're going to evolve or die. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Now the impulse, the awakening impulse has been there for a million years, longer, but for us now, we have arrived at this critical point where humanityif humanity does not embrace this new state of
consciousness, the awakened state, then humanity's not going to make it. On a cosmic scale, even that doesn't matter. And whatever gain there has been achieved in the awakening of conscience on this planet is not going to be lost. There's only one consciousness throughout the entire universe, and that one consciousness is awakening in millions and billions of life forms. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And so if we don't survive as a human species? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That's not the greatest tragedy either. Relatively speaking, it is tragic, but in absolute terms, that's fine too. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, and it's reallyit's our decision. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Yes. The fact that we are here at this very moment engaged in this work is very good sign. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): This conversation, yeah. It's a sign. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Because here at least we know that at right now, here, the awakening is happening. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, for the hundreds of thousands of people who are joining us around the world. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Danielle who's joining us now from Ireland and Skyping us from Dublin. Hi, Danielle. DANIELLE: Hi, Oprah. Hi, Eckhart. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Hi. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): What time is it in Dublin right now? DANIELLE: I think it's half 2 in the morning. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. Well, you're up late, thank you for joining us. DANIELLE: No, no, no, I'm delighted to be here. Thank you for having me. And my question is about ego, and I'm just going to read it out. And I've been practicing trying to stay in the present moment for over three years now, but I've come to some sort of block because my ego keep on telling me, "If you get rid of your ego, you will lose the world as you know it. You will lose your relationships with the
friends you had built up for years. And you want to give up your career you have worked so hard for, and you'll be isolated from the rest of society because they are all living in ego." How can I overcome this? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Thank you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Excellent question. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Now, as you may have noticed, these are thoughts that arise in your mind. These thoughts that arise in your mind are telling you something. Now, what these thoughts are saying may be very far from the truth, what the thought that if you awaken, if you become really present, you're going to lose your friends, life is not going to be fun anymore. You have to see, is that the truth or are these just thoughts that my egoic mind is producing in order to stop me from being present? Do I believe in those thoughts or do I believe in firsthand evidence that I have because, if you've been practicing being present, then you realize it's actually quite joyful to be fully open to the present moment. It doesn't take away from the fun of being alive. It actually makes you more intensely alive when you are fully present in the now rather than always looking to some next moment that's going to be better than this one. This is how most of the world lives. So youI'm sure you've already had glimpsesmore than glimpses of how the quality of your life actually becomes enhanced through being fully present to life now, because life is now. And your mind isplease, the question. DANIELLE: No, I definitely have. And, but I think it's just the ego keeps on slipping in or else you'd be in a situation where your friends expect you to act the same way that you've always acted, like in ego. Like your friendshipa lot of friendships are kind of, are bound through ego. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. DANIELLE: You know, it's your personality and, you know, you'll try and be in the present moment and then they'll be, like, "Come on, come on, you know, let's go and do something," you know, which is obviously trying to escape from the present moment. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But isn't it true, Danielle, when you become to awakenwhen you come to the state where you feel more alive and awakened and willing to be more present with yourself, that that means you might have to let go of some of the things that used to bring you a false sense of happiness? DANIELLE: Yeah. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That maybe the same people you used to hang around with and do things with who are not, you know, ready to follow your path or not willing to be a part of some of the
things that you now recognize that matter, maybe it means letting some of those friends go. That's the whole point. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Maybe just a comment on this. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Usually what happens when people become more present, some of their friends are actually drawn into that also because it'swhatever state you're in will affect the people around you. Oh, you're back. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Hi. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So usually it happens that some of your friends will actually join you and also grow in presence and awaken, and others may drop away who are not ready yet. That is usually the case. And your career doesactually can only improve because the quality of anything that you do in full presence is so much greater, and there's so much power available to you that is not there when you're always looking to some other OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): When you're scattered. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): When you're scattered. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): You remember a couple weeks ago I quoted the Zen master who was observing competitors at an archery competition, and the Zen master was observing one competitor, and he said, "His need to win drains him of power." And, of course, this need to win, which most people in the old consciousness have, is the need to arrive at some future point, and it takes energy away from what you're doing now. And that drains you of power. So whatever you do becomes actually more powerful when you are present rather than, so it can OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I remember when I first started doing this talk show 22 years ago, I used to get asked a lot of questions about other talk shows and other people. And I always used to say, "We're running our own race here." And the energy that it takes to look back and see where the other guy is in the race, and there have been a lot of guys and female guys and guys with shows who were in competition. I go, "The energy that it takes to look at what somebody else is doing takes energy away from what you're doing."
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I mean, if you're on track, I used to run track, and if you just take the moment to look back and see where the other guy is, that energy is so draining and causes you to lose your own footing and lose your own concentration and focus. So that's what you're saying. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, and that's alsoput this sense that you're competing against others is part of the ego energy. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And that also takes power away. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right, instead of just run the race. Run your own race. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Now, what's the best way for us to sense the pain-body? It's verythank you so much, Danielle. Joining us from Dublin. DANIELLE: (unintelligible) for the technical problems. Thanks, bye. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you, bye. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Byebye. Thank you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's very easy for all of us to spot the pain-body in other people and I've actually heard the word come up many times this week. "Oh, that was his pain-body, oh that was his pain-body." So thanks for introducing it to our culture. So it's easy to see it in other people. What's the best way, number one, to spot it in yourself? And how do you stop ourselves from acting out when we're in its grip? Are there simple, you know, exercises or something we can do to break the grip when you feel yourself go in there? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. So the important thing is to catch it as it first arises in the first because, before it takes over your mind, when it's there as an emotion, and usually it's the pain-body when the emotional reaction is out of proportion to the triggering event. So a relatively minor thing triggers an enormous amount of unhappiness in whatever form. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right. A small thing happens and you flare up.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes. And so thenand after a while you realize the kind of situation that triggers your pain-body. And then you can be actually more vigilant when such a situation happens. And you can seea very important thing is to be able to have some attention inside your body that is connected with the exercise we did at the beginning today, which is bringing consciousness into the body, because if you're able to bring consciousness into the body, you can more easily feel an arising emotion inside you, whether it's a very heavy emotion of deep sadness or whether it's a fiery emotion of anger, or whatever it is. The emotion of intense fearthat contraction. Then you canthere are so many people these days who are completely out of touch with their emotions because they live only in the head. So being able to feel an emotion as it arises and then recognizing it as the beginning of the pain-body; my pain-body. And as long as you know this is the pain-body, you're not identified with it because the knowing is the awareness. So when you, if you can catch it early on, and then it may still grow, suddenly the fear may become very intense, or the anger, or whatever form the pain-body takes, but you will be there as the awareness in the background while it happens. And one thing that doesn't happen is that the pain-body cannot control your thinking because you're shining the light of consciousness on it. It cannot then creep into your mind and suddenly make your mind think what it wants to think. So remain there as the awareness for it and say, "Oh, there's the pain-body." Then it cannot renew itself, and it also cannot control your behavior; your actions. All it is that you have contained it, not through holding it down, but you have contained it there through your presence. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And then it can't renew itself through that situation. So it suddenly comes up, but it cannot renew itself. And then it will subside again. But the pain-body, being very clever, it will then wait for a more suitable opportunity when you are less conscious, and at that moment, and then it will come up again. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It will try again. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And for example OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's like you're always being tested. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. The pain-body is like a little wild animal or something. It's alwaysit's there in the back, and saying, "Okay, what situationcan Iam I going to come out now or is the situation not right? It is too conscious." OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Is the pain-body also your ego, Eckhart?
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): The pain-body is the emotional aspect of ego. So that when you identify with the pain-body, it becomes part of the ego because whatever you identify with becomes part of the ego. When you don't identify with it, it's no longer a part of the ego. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): All right, because what you identify with is the ego. I like this question from Loraine from Vancouver, British Columbia, who writes, "I attract negativity. It seems that my whole world is one big fight. I just want people to stop instigating fights with me. I don't deliberately go out and begin conflict, but it comes to me. I hate it. I just want peace. What's the problem?" Isn't that interesting? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes. Now, this iswhatever you experience repeatedly, and frequently, externally is a reflection of your inner state. So you attract certain things into your life that reflect your state of consciousness. So, for Loraine, it's very important to become much more aware of whatever state she is in at any given moment, become more aware of what emotion she's feeling at any given moment. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because Loraine could not be attracting fights and conflict unless she was emanating that energy. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And you say on 162, "Every human being emanates an energy field that corresponds to his or her inner state, and most people can sense it, although they may feel someone else's energy emanation only subliminally. That is to say, they don't know that they sense it, yet it determines to a large extent how they feel about and react to that person." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And so there are two aspects to your inner state. There's the emotional aspect to your inner state: What is the energy of the emotion that you feel? And there's a mental aspect: What kinds of thoughts are you, is your mind producing at this moment? Is your mind producing negative thoughts? What kind of thoughts? So you need to be there as the awareness, become aware of, "What is it that I feel right now? What is my state at this moment?" That's a good question to ask yourself. "What's my inner state at this moment?" OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): At the moment that somebody instigates a fight with her? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): No. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE):
Normal moments when you're not being challenged because all these accumulate. Your normal state of consciousness eventually produces some sort external event. So as much as possible, in any situation, it's always more important what your inner state of conscience is than the external situation. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Got it. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): The external situation is always secondary. So, "What am I feeling now, and what am I thinking now?" These are the important questions. So becomean alertness then arises and you becomesuddenly realize, "What's my mind saying? What'smost of the day, what kind of thought is my mind producing? How many negative thoughts do I have every hour, every minute?" You become aware particularly ofbecause the ego loves negative thinking. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And so with that, thosewhat you're saying then, it would be impossible for Loraine to be a peaceful person, to say, she says here, "I just want peace. What's the problem?" It would be impossible to just be a peaceful person, minding your own business, having peaceful loving thoughts, and people want to pick a fight with you all the time. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, that would not be possible. There's something in her that she needs to become aware of. And that's not her true self. It's a form of conditioning. Her true self is the awareness, which is already perfect. It's fine. There's nothing wrong with who she is, her essence. So look, be vigilant as much as possible. Maybe put little signs at home, little reminders so that you remember to be conscious of what's going on inside you. "What's going on inside me?" Very important question. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "What's going on inside me?" ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): "What thoughts is my mind thinking?" OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): "What is it that I'm feeling right now?" OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I wanted to go back to page 162 again where you say, "Every human being emanates an energy field that corresponds to his or her inner state, and most people can sense it, although they may feel somebody else's energy emanation only subliminally. That is to say, they don't know that they sense it, yet it determines to a large extent how they feel about and react to that person." I had encounter with somebody recently where their energy thing was so strong, I walked into the room and felt it so strong, I had to remove myself from the room.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "Some people are most clearly aware of it when they first meet someone even before any words are exchanged." That's what had happened there. "A little later, however"I love this part. "A little later, however; words take over the relationship and with words come the roles that most people play. Attention then moves to the realm of mind, and the ability to sense the other person's energy field becomes greatly diminished." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "Nevertheless, it is still felt on an unconscious level." And that's why kids can sense it, little kids can sense it because they don't have the words or the language. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Isn't that true? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And animals can sense it. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And animals can sense it too. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, very acutely because they don't have the conceptual mental realm, so they can feel much more acutely a human energy field. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right, and after they're introduced to you, your title means nothing to them. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. Your title, or your position, or your label, the role that you're playing means nothing to them. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No. No. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So once they sniff you and they don't like you, they don't like you. We have Mubeena on the phone from Dubai. Hi, Mubeena, we hear you have a question. MUBEENA: Hi, Oprah. Good morning.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Hi. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Hello. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I hear Dubai is so great. MUBEENA: It's beautiful. Please come visit. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, I think I might be coming. And yeah, I am. Do you have a question about relationships? MUBEENA: Oh, great. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Go ahead. MUBEENA: Yes. My question is about the nature of love. Eckhart says that love has no wanting, that true love really is about not expecting anything in return. My question is related to a little personal dilemma. I met somebody five years ago, and I really, really like him, but I noticed that he has a dense pain-body. My question is, should I continue to be present for this person? I have been doing so for five years, giving him my present time and really being there for him. And is it worth waiting? Cause I really do want to get married and have a family someday. Is it worth waiting for someone, you know, with a dense pain-body? But I still feel I want to be present for this person, and I know Eckhart says that we shouldn't go around changing people. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, you're not going to change him, first of all. MUBEENA: Right. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Are you hoping that you're going to change him? MUBEENA: I'm hoping that he's going to let go of his past at some point and realize that I'm the one for him. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, I think you need a little more awakening. MUBEENA: Okay. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): No, but I'll let Eckhart answer. Go ahead. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So do you feel that you love that person?
MUBEENA: Yes, very dearly. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Well, let's see what it means to love someone. When you truly love another human being, there's something that you recognize in them that has nothing to do with the form of that person. There is the recognition of the essence of that person and your own essence, your own being, your own consciousness recognizes that in the other. And that essence is the divine in each human being. So when you love another person, you really love God in the other person. You don't love the person. If you love the person, it's the ego because then you love the form. And if you love the person and not the formless within the person, the divine, whenif you don't love God in the other person, then the love is of the ego. And the ego love is very different from true love. The ego love is needy, and the ego love says, "You love me back, and if you don't, I'm going to get very angry." OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "Or upset with you or impatient with you because you haven't loved me the way I wish to be loved." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes. So there's no need to deny what you feel for this person. It's actually MUBEENA: Yes. I've never really expected anything back from him, but what I hear from friends is always, "What are you waiting for?" And, you know, "He's not giving you anything back, so what are you waiting for?" And I don't mind waiting another five years, it's just that I've just been, you know, getting bombarded with questions from friends who are just saying, you know, "Go on out with other people." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Now, the love in you actually is fine. The love that you feel does not need anything. But you as a person, you as a person may have certain needs and preferences in this situation. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I don't believe that she's making this phone call for her friends, personally. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I believe you are making this phone call for yourself, Ms. Mubeena. MUBEENA: Absolutely I am. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, that it's not your friends who are saying, "Why doesn't he do something?" I think, you know, what you expressed to us at the beginning of this phone call is that you
think it's been five years, and it's time that he should do something. But he has a pretty heavy painbody, right? MUBEENA: Sure. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay, so you want him to make a move, and you want that move to be marriage? MUBEENA: Well, it could lead to that, sure. I mean, I'm in no hurry. But I'm just OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): What do you want? What do you want? MUBEENA: I want him to realize that heI don't know, that II just love him, that's all, you know. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): No. MUBEENA: And I just want him to see that. And I think he's just being blocked or his pain-body is so dense. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I'm not buying that. No, I think what you said to us earlier is what you really want. You said, "I want him to realize that I'm the one for him." MUBEENA: Sure, definitely. I'm not going to lie about that. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. Yeah, you already said it. Go ahead. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So what do you want to say about that, Eckhart? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Well, it may be time for you to talk to him ,and say, "I love you, and what I feel for you is not going to change, but I have certain needs and preferences. I would like you to decide and make a commitment whether or not you want to be with me." MUBEENA: Right, okay. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Bold. That's bold. Bold, Eckhart. And then he says, "Well, I'm not ready for that." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Now, if he says, "I'm not ready," and you get angry or extremely upset, then it was ego love. If he says
MUBEENA: He said that to me a lot of times before that he's not ready. And I said, "Fine, it's okay." And OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay, did you hear what Eckhart just said? Hello, Mubeena, did you hear? MUBEENA: Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): If you get upset then that's ego love. MUBEENA: Ego, yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. And if you don't get upset, and you're patient, and as you said, you can wait five more years or however it chooses to be, then perhaps maybe it is the real thing. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Unless you're MUBEENA: Okay. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You're just waiting for him to make the move and discover that you're the one. MUBEENA: Okay. Yeah, that what I've been doing and I just wanted to confirm that, so that's fine. That's confirmed, that's great. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): The extent to which you can love another human being depends on the extent to which you are connected with your own essence. And you can recognize sometimes it's easier to recognize God in one particular form, but you can recognize God in another human being. So the love is in you. And when youthe love does not come from the outside, the love is the recognition of oneness that ultimately you and the other share the one consciousness, that's what all connects and makes all humans one. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And what you say in the book, I don't know, I'm paraphrasing now, because this was, I think last week that you really addressed in the pain-body is that many times people mistake what they think to be love for their own neediness and their ego identification with, you know, "This person validates me," or ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. So true love is OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Especially in our society, in the American society, where it's all about romance. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. That's encouraged by the culture on what you see in films, the role-playing associated with that. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right. It's really damaged us a lot, hasn't it? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Yes. But we are waking up out of that. There are not so many films now that end in the happy marriage or something like that because it'speople are beginning to recognize that it's not how it is. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's it's not happily ever after. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No. No. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you, Mubeena. MUBEENA: Thanks. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you so much. MUBEENA: Thank you. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Thank you. Thank you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you. Last week, we aired an interview on The Oprah Show with Thomas, who is a transgendered man. Heard about this man who became pregnant? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): A transgendered man who is pregnant and his wife, Nancy. We also spoke to Thomas and Nancy's neighbors George and Victoria, who gave us their reaction, and I found out during a commercial break that George and Victoria are students of A New Earth, and here's a clip of our conversation after The Oprah Show went off the air.
OPRAH WINFREY (CLIP): They just told me afterduring the commercial break that you're reading A New Earth, are you taking the class? VICTORIA (CLIP): Absolutely, and love it, Oprah. It's been fantastic. We actually read the book first, and I couldn't put it down. I had to read the whole book because I had said to George, "At last I'm so excited. This book is really captivating, you know?" And so then I encouraged George to take the class with me, so we've been watching it together and studying together. And that's what's helped us be more understanding and open-minded, nonjudgmental. As Eckhart says, no labels, trying to get judgment out of our heads and stay in the moment and just really embrace our devoted neighbors as the human beings that are with us sharing this earth. GEORGE (CLIP): And I don't think it's a coincidence that we moved to Bend, and right across the street from us we've encountered Nancy and Thomas and this situation because I think in a way there's a design to this and it was an opportunity for us to grow, and this is why we're kind of honored, really, to share this experience because it's really helped us become, you know, more enlightened people. It's given us the opportunity to actually manifest what the seminars are all about. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So that's Victoria and George join us now from Skype from their home office in Bend, Oregon. Since Nancy and Tom were on the show, has all the press been in your neighborhood looking for them or looking for you? GEORGE: Yes they were. Oddly enough, they kind of dissipated after your show. And it's been relatively peaceful now. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Oh good. Well, I remember you had a question for Eckhart, and I said I was going to let you ask that question yourself that was related to the suffering of Christ. On page 144, Eckhart writes, "Why is the suffering body of Christ, his face distorted in agony and his body bleeding from countless wounds, such a significant image in the collective consciousness of humanity? Millions of people, particularly in medieval times, would not have related to it as deeply as they did if something within themselves had not resonated with it, if they had unconsciously recognized it as an outer representation of their own inner realitythe pain-body. They were not yet conscious enough to recognize it directly within themselves, but it was the beginning of them becoming aware of it. Christ can be seen as the archetypal human embodying both the pain and the possibility of transcendence." And you had a question regarding some of this. Go ahead, George. GEORGE: Yes, thank you, Oprah, for having us on the show. Eckhart, you mention the Christian doctrine a lot in your book, and this is a question to help me reconcile Christian doctrine with your teachings. If it's true that the ego loves suffering, as you mention in your book, and if it's true, as the New Testament says, that God sent his only begotten son to suffer and die for humanity's sins, was the passion of Christ an ego trip?
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Thank you. Thank you. Now, I would not say that the ego loves suffering. The pain-body loves suffering. The ego is actually, very often, tries very hard to avoid suffering. If the ego produces suffering, inevitably sooner or later, because the way it goes about its business is dysfunctional. The ego is a very limited view of who you are, and if you act from such a limited view of who you are, you cannot see where you fit into the totality of other human beings and your environment, then eventually your actions will produce suffering. So the ego produces suffering, or it wants something else. This is why we have the proverb, "The road to hell is paved with good intentions." The ego wants the best for you, but it produces often the worst. So I would not say that the suffering of Christ is an ego trip. It's not that. I'd like to share with you something, I had an insight some years ago, I was walking in England into a village church. It was all very quiet. I was the only person in that 600-year-old church, and I saw the cross and the altar and Jesus on the cross. And this is an image that we are so used to, we don't question it, but at that moment, I saw it as if I had just arrived on this planet and had never seen it before. And I was struck by the strangeness of that symbol. And I looked, there's a suffering human being in agony on this cross. And at the same time, there was another cross without Jesus on it, and I saw this golden cross was the same cross. That cross that is the torture instrument is at the same time a symbol for the divine. And suddenly I saw a very deep significance in that that can be appreciated and recognized, I believe, by anybody, even in they are not Christians. Jesus on the cross stands for humanity. Jesus represents every human being that has ever lived or will ever live. Jesus represents something that is part of the human condition, and thiswhat he experienced at that moment, I saw when I was looking at the cross in the church, I saw that what this represents is a human being who experiences an extreme form of limitation. He's totally unfree, totally limited, in deep suffering, and, at the same time, the words are suddenly remembered from what is said on the cross, "Not my will, but thy will be done." And that was the act of complete acceptance of suffering. He went to the depths of suffering and then totally accepted suffering. And through this total acceptance of suffering, sudden transmutation happened, and the very torture instrument, the cross that had produced the suffering, was transformed and became a symbol for the divine. And that explained the paradox that I had seen when I went into that church as if I had never been to a church before and I saw, how can the torture instrument at the same time be a symbol of the divine? And so in every human being's life, every human being will experience some form of suffering, sometimes very intense. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Sometimes, every human being, as you said last week, will have their own cross to bear. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Cross, yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Will have their own cross to bear. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Every human being has their own cross to bear. And every human being needs to learn the lesson that is there. And we look at Jesus on the cross here, has to come to the point where a human being, instead of
wanting to avoid suffering, says, "This is what is," and bring a complete yes to whatever is at this moment. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Not as I will, but thy will be done. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Thy will be done. Complete alignment. And that I call "conscious suffering," where, suddenly, the inner resistance is not there anymore. And when you go into conscious suffering and say, "This is fine, I say yes to this. Even the most unacceptable situation, if there's nothing I can do about it, I bring a yes to it." OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Not as I will, thy will be done. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And at that moment, the ego dies. And at that moment, the divine comes through. And the very thing that was the worst thing that could ever happen to you when you bring surrender to it, becomes an opening into the divine. And that's the miracle in the transformative value of the cross. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Boy, I think that's powerful, George and Victoria, don't you? The momentI got that. I just got that. I had a big old epiphany. The very moment, the worst thing that can happen to you if you surrender to it, there's an opening that allows the energy of the divine to come through; the moment of surrender. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And that is the grace OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I got that, George, didn't you get that? GEORGE: Yes, I did, thank you. So it's a lesson for us, in other words. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's a lesson, yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Behind every form of suffering, there's grace hiding, concealed. It does not reveal itself until you surrender, until you suffer consciously, until you no longer deny what is. So there's the grace that's hiding behind every form of suffering. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Wow. GEORGE: So if the ego doesn't love suffering, but produces suffering, what is that voice in our head that you refer to in the book, the voice that denigrates our self-esteem that says, "You weren't any
good, you were never any good, you're never going to be any good"? That's also whatin thethe Bible also is described as the voice of Satan. Is the ego in that sense a force of evil in us? You know, you have the good and the bad, the duality. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Exactly. GEORGE: Can you see (inaudible)? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Ego, I would define asego is complete identification with form. Total identification with form. The form of me as this body. The psychological form of me, total identification with every thought that arises. So you cannot step out. You are trapped in form completely, and that is evil. So going beyond form, beyond identification with form is when the other dimension opens up. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, and didn't in some cultures in the past, I saw this on Guy Ritchie's documentary on the ego, that they used to refer to the ego as Satan? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And some cultures refer to it as Satan. Thank you, George and Victoria. Victoria, you're still enjoying the book? Or you're done now, right? VICTORIA: I've finished the book, Oprah. I actually have a quick question if it's possible. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Go ahead. VICTORIA: I was curious, because, you know, you spoke of children and the trauma that young children experienced when their parents are fighting. Eckhart, do you think that it's possible that a pregnant mother passes her pain-body onto her unborn child and perhaps even generations that has happened with the grandmothers, great-grandmother, passing that onto their own unborn baby so we end up with this big old backpack of somebody else's pain-body? And can be free ourselves from that as simply as being aware, like you said? OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Great questions, guys, thank you. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes. You're absolutely right. The pain-body is passed on from generation to generation. And certainly whatever a mother experiences in pregnancy affects already the child that is inside her. Whatever
emotion she experiences, it will affect and leave remnants in the child. And I believe that, although no scientists have discovered it yet, I believe that even in the human DNA, there's already programming that is the pain-body. And so we inherit it. It's only partly personal, in other words, partly derrises as a result of things that happen to us in childhood and so on. But it goes back much further than that. It's old, it's very old. And as you know, I mentioned in the book, another aspect of the pain-body is it's also collective. You also inherit the pain-body of yoursometimes of your entire nation is part of your pain-body. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): This is what we were talking about last week, the pain-body of slavery in this country that so many people are in denial about. The pain-body of what's happened to the Native Americans in this country. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes. And so what you said is absolutely true. So the mother will often already pass on her pain-body to the unborn child. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So isn't that harder to get yourself free? We're going to talk about, before this class is over tonight, breaking free of a pain-body. But if you inherited it, if it's like genetically DNA encoded, isn't that harder to get rid of? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Well, that's how it is, but it'sit comes from the past, it is the living past in you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): The living past in you. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Now, the past has no power against the present. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): The present moment, yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Present moment because all power arises out of the present moment because it is life itself. So, and this is why you don't need years or generations to become free of the pain-body. It has taken many generations for the pain-body to build up. But it takes only one conscious human and one conscious moment now to disidentify from it and recognize it. You're not totally free yet, no, but you recognize it for what it is. It takes only one moment of awareness now to see it for what it is and when this person then has broken the unconsciousness of generations. And that's what we are engaged in. We are breaking the unconsciousness that goes back thousands and thousands of years. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's pretty powerful. George and Victoria, thank you again from Bend, Oregon.
VICTORIA: Thank you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thanks, guys. GEORGE: Thank you. Because you folks are doing this on a global electronic basis, so thank you for letting us be a part of that breakthrough. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you, thank you, thank you for the second time. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Thank you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, on page 170, you talk about children, and you say, "Suppressed pain-bodies are extremely toxic, even more so that openly active ones, and that psychic toxicity is absorbed by the children and contributes to the development of their own pain-body." So people who are, I think about this all the time, we were just doing somebody on the show, we're always doing somebody on the show who's arguing in their familieswhen you argue in front of your children. I remember this the other day, the little girl said, "When my mommy and daddy argue, I go and hide under the covers." When you argue in front of your children, you are creating and reinforcing their pain-bodies. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. I did that as a child. I was always trying to hide from my parents' pain-body, which was there a lot of time, active. So that's one way, is when there's an active confrontation, the parents having a confrontation with their mutual pain-body. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, you shocked us last week when you said you started thinking of killing yourself when you were at a very young age, 9 or 10, because of your parents. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Yes. Yes, that was the general environment that I was in. I perceived it as extremely unpleasant. The environment of my parents, and it was not that they were not loving parents, but they both had heavy pain-bodies. I loved them, but I didn't know at the time why there was continuous conflict, I just knew it was dreadful to be around them. And, of course, I was also unhappy at school because I never liked having to study things that I didn't, wasn't interested in, and it wasn't done in an interesting way. So yes, so the children then absorbone way they absorb the pain-body from their parents is when there's open conflict between the parents' pain-bodies. But another way is also when parents, some parents say, "We mustn't fight in front of the children." And, nevertheless, there's an intense emotional negativity. They may not be saying anything, but there's an emanation of intense negativity in the parents.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right. I know a couple stayed together 24 years in orderuntil the last child was grown and had gone to college. All the children are completely messed up, you know. One problem after another problem: drugs and drinking and all kind of problems because the children stayed in that house and absorbed all the energy that was in that house. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Yes. And sometimes it's the case if the parents that repress that because they don't want to fight in front of the children or they may have an image of themselves as religious and they mustn't, so they are not even admitting to themselves perhaps that there's intense negativity. And then the children grow up in that, and sometimes they send the children, who are forced to act it out in the world. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right. And the interesting about that when you try to repress it, when you're not fully realizing the truth of who you are, and you say the truth of who you are will set you free, when you allow the repressed bad energy to go on in the household, the energy is still there. It goes back to what I was saying on page 162. The energy is always there. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And children more so than even adults whochildren who don't have the language for it, pick up on the energy. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes, that's right. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And often blame themselves because they don't have the language to explain. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay, okay. You also say onwell, first of all, we'll do this. We'll go to a caller on this topic from Melbourne, Australia. Hello. She has a 10-year-old daughter. Her name is Wendy. Wendy, hi. WENDY: Hi, Oprah. Hi, Eckhart. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Hi. Hi. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Hi. WENDY: Thank you for having me on the webcast today.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, great to talk to you. WENDY: I have a question. Eckhart, on page 178, you state that, "Someone who in childhood was neglected, who were abandoned by one or both parents, will likely develop a pain-body that becomes triggered in any situation that resonates even remotely with their primordial pain of abandonment." So I see this pain in my 10-year-old daughter whose father no longer sees her and hasn't really had much of a relationship her. And my question is, how do I help her to her feelings of abandonment, and how do I guide her through people-pleasing behavior? Because I notice she has a strong tendency to peopleplease just to be accepted or liked. I would really love some help on this as I'm often at a loss on how to help her through it. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Can you give an example of how this, what you see as a sense of abandonment, how it manifests in her now? And what can you give a situation where this happens? How does she behave in such a situation? WENDY: Well, often there's been occasions when they have little parties at school and children get invited, and she's one of the kids that's excluded because obviously not everyone gets invited to everyone's birthday party. She's so traumatized by it, and she cries, and she doesn't understand, and she comes and she says they don't like her or they don't love her. And then she'll try to often buy their friendship. She'll take things to them, you know, take gifts or take Easter eggs, lately, and things like that. And I just think, "Oh, how do I get her through this?" She wants to be liked all the time. She wants approval. And often it's a case of intense tears and trauma. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): She's now 10-years-old? WENDY: Ten-years-old, yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Perhaps you can gradually, over the next few years, explain to her that she cannot be liked by everybody. Nobody is liked by everybody. And you cannot expectI think if you explain it gently, she will begin to understand that some, it is impossible in this world to be liked and accepted by everybody, and it is not necessary to be liked and accepted by everybody. And especially if you do things that are of any significance in this world, when she grows up, the more significant things you do in this world, the more you will find there are certain people who don't like what you do. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Correct. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And even Oprah has people who don't like what she does. I don't know why, but
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I don't either. Yes, and the more successful you become, the more people you have who don't like what you do. So you have aand I used to belisten, as you're describing your daughter, I used to be this little 10-year-old girl who had such a desire to please. I was always taking all of my notebook paper and giving it to everybody else, whatever I had. Even in college, nobody liked me so I would, you know, spend all my money cause I was working in TV from the time I was a sophomore in college, and everybody else was jealous of me for having a job and, you know, having a job on TV. And so I would take my money and buy pizzas for everybody and try to make everybody like me. And, you know, listen, I hope yourI was 40-something before I figured it out so I hope your daughter gets it before then. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): I think some gentle explanation, just a little bit here and there. Now she's 10, and then over the next few years. The behavior will continue for a while, you cannot just undo old conditioning in another person. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): The pain-body is, "I was not wanted by my father." That's what the 10year-old is feeling. "I was not wanted by my father." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Yes. WENDY: Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And the pain-body, if your daughter gets taken over by intense negative feelings that are out of proportion to the triggering event, which is a sign that this is the pain-body, if this happens and when this happens, after I describe it in A New Earth, after a pain-body episode is over, the next day, for example, you talk to what your daughter felt at that time. "Yesterday, when you behaved in such a way, when you did this, when you said that, what did it feel like?" Ask her questions about so that she begins to put attention on her own emotions and she can detect them. Ask questions about after a painbody episode in your daughter, ask her what it feels like so that the awareness grows in her of this. Next time, when it happens again, say, "Oh, there's thethat old thing has come back." She might even, you may even encourage her to give it a name: the pain-body. WENDY: Okay. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And then she can identify it when it happens again. So, gradually, the child can be, instead of at the mercy of these arising emotions, the child can already learn at an early age to be there as the awareness of the emotion rather than to be taken over by the emotion.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Actually, I think children can learn this a lot easier than adults can because we're so overly conditioned. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And that should be one of the main things that children learn at school, but so far that's not happening. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. And, also, Wendy, I might suggest this, you know. I think one of the things that would've helped me a lot, and I found this with my girls in Africa who come from really disadvantaged backgrounds, they're disadvantaged, and one of the things I want to teach them is a life of service. You always feel better about your life when you can be of service to someone else's. And so if your daughter, even at 10, is exposed to children who are less fortunate than she is, children who are orphaned or abandoned or, you know, in poverty, I don't know what the situation is in Melbourne. But children who have less than she does, and she is able to see that her situation really isn't so bad and allow her to feel a sense of gratitude for who she is, and where she is, and what she has, and yet also empathy and compassion for people who have less than she does, I think that that will also, even at 10years-old, begin to offer some perspective for her. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, absolutely. WENDY: Yes, I agree, yeah, absolutely. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you so much for your call. WENDY: Thank you very much. Thank you. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Thank you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. So tonight's chapter, "Breaking Free," how do we do it? You say, "How long does it take to become free of the pain-body?" On page 183. Tell us how long. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): The important question, as I say, is not how long it takes to become free of the pain-body, but how long does it take for me to stop identifying with the pain-body? That's because it's more important to stop identifying with it because, in one sense, you're already free. The pain-body may still be there in you for a while, but when you stop identifying with it, that's freedom already. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You say the answer is, "Of course, it depends both on the density of an individual's pain-body." Some are more dense than others. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): As well as "the degree or intensity of that individual's arising Presence." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So the more you're able to bring that sense of awareness, or as I said in the beginning, that youyou who is disguised as awareness, that awareness is you disguised as a person, the more you can be present with that. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): The more it dissipates. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It doesn't happen instantly. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No. But every time you disidentify, every time you are there as the awareness, the energy of the pain-body already diminishes. So every time there's a little bit less of it, and what happens to the energy it's allenergy's all one. There's only one energy, but it appears in different frequencies. And the painbody energy has a certain frequency. It's contained, it's rigid, it's tight, and it becomes freed, and it contributes to the arising awareness. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And you say, "But it's not the pain-body, but identification with it that causes the suffering." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That's right. The pain-body itself is only OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Has no power over you. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No, and it's not suffering anymore when we don't identify with it. Then it's only an unpleasant feeling inside you. You can hardly call it suffering. But it's suffering when you become it or it becomes you. That's suffering. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "It's not the pain-body, but identification with the pain-body that forces you to relive the past again and again and again and keeps you in a state of unconsciousness." I'm on page 183, everybody. "So a more important question to ask would be: 'How long does it take to become free of identification?'"
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. That's the key. And the answer to that, of course, is it doesn't really take any time because all it requires you is to be aware at this moment as it arises. In the moment it arises to see it and recognize it. Be the awareness for it. Be the space for it. In other words, another expression we can use, "Are you able to be the awareness for the pain-body, to be the space for the pain-body, and say, 'Oh, there it is'?" That means you've broken the identification. All it requires is for you to be present in the now as the awareness. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And to remember that the past, no matter what it is, no matter how awful it was, how horrifying, how much suffering, the past has no power over the present moment. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Has no power because what arises out of present moment is the dimension of consciousness that we call presence or awareness. It's a dimension that was already there in you always, but had been covered up by density of emotion and density of conditioned mind structures; thinking. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And the way you get to that is to bring yourself back to the present moment; get still. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Get still. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Get still, and then that arisesthat dimension that then arises is we could call it, goes beyond who you are as a person. It is transpersonal. It is the transpersonal dimension in you and it's thethat's the only thing that can free you from the purely personal realm, which has its place, but is very limited. And it's the only thing that can free you from the past and the heaviness of the past. And the past cannot prevail against it. It is impossible because there is, it is the only power there is. So it is also the timeless dimension in you when we talk of presence or awareness, there is no past and future in presence or awareness. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I got that. When you say on page 184, "When you feel the pain-body, don't fall into the error of thinking there's something wrong with you. Making yourself into a problem" ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "because the ego loves that." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE):
Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. "The knowing needs to be followed by accepting," and we talked about that a lot tonight, "anything else will obscure it. Accepting means you allow yourself to feel whatever it is you're feeling at that moment. You can't argue with what it is. Well, you can, but if you do, you suffer." That's how we suffer. "Through allowing, you become what you are: vast and spacious. You become whole. You're not a fragment anymore, which is how your ego perceives itself. Your true nature emerges, which is one with the nature of God." And then you say, "Jesus points to this when he says, 'Be whole even as your Father in Heaven is whole.' The New Testament's 'be ye perfect' is a mistranslation of the original Greek word, which means whole. This is to say, you don't need to become whole, but be what you already are with or without the pain-body." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes. You're already that. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Now, this brings us to the question that Denise in Michigan asks on our Web. She says, "Is Eckhart perfect? Eckhart, you seem to be almost perfect, although I know nobody is. Do you ever yell, do you ever get angry or feel sad?" ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): I'm not perfect because the form cannot be perfect. Every form by the very fact that it has form is one thing, but not the other. So, whole, yes. I feel I'm aligned with something far greater than the little person. And that is where I rest and that is where inspiration comes from, where the teaching arises. It is presence. And it is notit goes far beyond this little person. This little person is insignificant. It doesn't matter very much to me. So this, I don't look for perfection. I don't look for perfection in myself because that would be total frustration. I do things that people perhaps would regard as not perfect. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I'm waiting to hear. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): I have a glass of wine. I drinkI like my glass of wine occasionally. I drink coffee at Starbucks almost every day. And sometimes people come up to me and say, "You're drinking coffee? You shouldn't be drinking coffee, what do you need coffee for?" I say, "Why not? I enjoy it." So I enjoy all kinds of things. I don't have many negative emotions. I can't think the last time I even had a negative emotion, but it's possible. Perhaps, I remember maybe some years ago, yes, I was watching and people were mistreating an animal, and I suddenly felt anger. So it can happen. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And what did you do when you felt the anger? I just did a show on puppy mills, it made me angry too. So what did you do with that anger? Did you say, "Oh, I'm feeling anger." You notice the anger.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And the situation somebody else interfered with that very moment, otherwise I would already taken steps towards stopping it. And so the anger was there, I felt it, and it was in my system for a couple minutes as a vibrational, intense vibration in the body, and then it's dissipated. I let it go like the OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So you don't just, like, little things don't upset you ever. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Oh, no, no. I've let go, I had so much of that in the past, so much suffering with all kinds of little things, it's not worth it. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, I never understand this because I'm not, you know, I don't get triggered by, you know, automobiles, or driving, or stuff, I never understand the people, the road rage. That's pain-body, right? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No, I don'tyes, and the continuous OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I never understand why not getting in anot being led in a line or being cut off, why that would cause you to be so crazy. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No, I don't understand it either, but for many people that is somethingthey personalize the traffic. So it's an egoic phenomenon. So when somebody does something, they regard it as a personal insult to them, to their dignity or whatever. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Really? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And, of course, if it were OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): They personalize the traffic. That's interesting. That's good. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): They wouldn't perhaps do it with the weather, if some hail OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): When it rains, yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): If hail or rain hits your windscreen, then you wouldperhaps you wouldn't get angry, but if a driver cuts across, then you suddenly get angry, but it's the same thing. It's just an energy field cutting across.
Why personalize it? And I'm amazed that people suffer so much stress in traffic because if you don't react, then there's no stress. If you don't personalize other drivers OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Cause if they had some personal disagreement with you, it's nothing to do with you. They don't even know you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): If you don't personalize things, it's actually quite stress free. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Or you get struck in traffic and you getpeople get so frustrated getting stuck in traffic. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I know. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And that can be a wonderful meditation. You can't move, why not be in the body, feel the intense aliveness in your energy field, and be there; enjoy it. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And everybody who's listening has ever been stuck in traffic, you now, after reading the book you know how ridiculous it is to be upset that you're struck in traffic because there's nothing you can do to change it. So just be with it. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It's a wonderful opportunity for acceptance and surrender. And a wonderful opportunity for learning dysfunction if you observe you are not accepting and surrendering, then you cannot observe how dysfunction arises. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I love the way you answered that question from Denise in Michigan. You say you're perfect, but you're whole. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. So sometimes people on the spiritual path, they look for some kind of perfection; they have an image of how a perfect evolved spiritual human being behaves, and then they try to conform to that image. It doesn't work. It reallyaccept your own limitations, accept your imperfections.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Do you have no attachment to, I mean, the way you even described your body. I loved last week, toward the end of our webcast, I asked you if you had any fear of dying. And I said this later to some friends, I've never talked to anybody to whom I've asked that question, and there was such definitive resoluteness about it. How you were just, like, I really believed you when you said you had no fear. I really believed you when you had no fear of death. And you have no attachment to anything? Like, do you live in a nice house? Do you like nice things? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Oh yes, yes. I like nice things. Now, for many years I lived on a minimum because for many years I didn't have a regular job. I was just doing occasional counseling and occasional little workshops. So, for many years, I lived on very, very little, and I enjoyed that. Later on, I realized, "Oh, I must've lived for all those years below the poverty level." But I didn't feel that at the time. I didn't regard myself as poor. I enjoyed every moment of it. And then, now I have relative wealth, especially compared to that time, and I'm actually enjoying that too. I buy some nice furniture sometimes and enjoy it. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You like nice sheets? I like nice sheets. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Or do you care? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Well, I can sleep in any, but I like nice things. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But you're not attached to them. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Not, no, no. I'm not attached. I enjoy having space around so that you don't have to listen to the neighbors' noise. That is quite nice. Perhaps the greatest thing money can buy is space around you. But if you don't have it, and if you have to live with neighbors' noise, it's a great opportunity for surrenderingor for telling them to shut up. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Before we go I wanted to have you tell everyone about an upcoming well, I want to tell you about an upcoming Oprah show. Do you want to summarize? I guess you just basically did. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): To break free of it, lose the identification.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, that's it. Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I'm really excited about the next chapter because the next chapter is "Finding Who You Truly Are." And I would say, bring a friend to the webcast next week. Come and bring a friend because, even if you haven't read the rest of the book, you can start, really, on page 185 with "Finding Who You Truly Are," and then work your way backwards. It's going to be so exciting. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, I love it too. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I love it too. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yeah. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Oh, I love it when you love it. I love it. It's going to be so exciting. Also, everybody, listen. I want to tell you about an upcoming Oprah show we're doing this Wednesday; an entire hour on "A New Earth" that's going to air on our show, my show this Wednesday, April 9th, in the United States, and in Canada, and the rest of the world as soon as we can get it to our international affiliates for those of you, Mubeena in Dubai. We'll be talking to people who had a big and little transformation in their lives. It's a powerful hour, and something I think you'll want to see. If you've been trying to talk to talk to your friends about this or people in your home about this, that's the show that they should watch. I want to encourage you to have them watch that and bring a friend to next week's webcast to find out who you truly are. Again, Eckhart and I thank you all for joining us around the world. The sixth class will be available on demand tomorrow for free here on Oprah.com. And if you want to download or watch any of our classes, you can do that also tomorrow at Oprah.com and iTunes. It's free. Thanks to Nature Made Softgel vitamins, it's free. And also tomorrow we'll have special bonus materials for you on Oprah.com and iTunes. Audio meditations read by Eckhart's partner, Kim Eng. You can listen to them on your computer or download them and take them to go. Don't forget to update your workbook. Get ready for next week's class, "Finding Out Who You Truly Are." If you're not who you think you are, well then who are you? We're going to talk about that. It's going to be so exciting next week. Again, I thank you. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Thank you, everybody. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you. See you in class next week. Goodnight. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Goodnight.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, hi. Welcome everybody, welcome to class seven of our New Earth Web series with author Eckhart Tolle. I want to thank our students from every corner of the world who are joining us live on this journey of discovery. I truly believe that as each one of us becomes more awake and aware in our own lives, so will our family and everyone we encounter, our communities and our countries and, eventually, our world. And so Eckhart Tolle and I welcome you once again to yet another lesson. Chapter 7, my favorite chapter thus far. Before we get started, we're going to have a moment of silence, and you're going to lead us into that moment of silence, yes? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. We're already getting used to having moments of silence to start with. And I'll introduce the moment of silence today with a short meditation passage taken from The Power of Now. And as I read this short passage, our viewers should already able to become still as they listen. And after I've read it, we'll be still for just half a minute or so. So here we go. It's all about entering the present moment fully. And that begins with using your senses fully. Be where you are. Look around. Just look, don't interpret, be aware of the silent presence of each thing. Be aware of the space that allows everything to be. Listen to the sounds. Don't judge them. Listen to the silence underneath the sounds. Touch something, anything, and feel and acknowledge its being. Observe the rhythm of your breathing, feel the air flowing in and out, feel the life energy inside your body. Allow everything to be within and without. Allow the is-ness of all things. Move deeply into the now. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's great. That's great. All right, everybody, tonight we're discussing Chapter 7, finding who you truly are, which I know is the reason why so many of you picked up this book in the first place because when I first announced it I was reading the subtitle, that the book is, A New Earth: Awakening to Your Life's Purpose. And going on the message boards and so many people were saying, "I hope this book helps me discover my purpose, I hope this book allows me to find who I am." Well, if you're ready, tonight's your night. Let's start with an overview of what this chapter is really about. You say that it is about; you begin with "know thyself." Chapter 7 starts with those two words that you say are inscribed above the entrance of a famous Greek temple, you say on page 186. "What those words imply is this: Before you ask any other question, first ask the fundamental question of your life: Who am I?" And then you say on page 189 that, "You're not the ego, so when you become aware of the ego in you, it does not mean who you areit means who you know who you are not. But it is through knowing who you are not that the greatest obstacle to truly knowing yourself is removed." So let's start off with these two questions. Who aren't I? And who am I? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And, of course, the best starting point is the first question. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Who aren't I?
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ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Because what is left when you realizeand it's usually a process for most people, realizing who you are not, letting go of identification with things and so onwhen you realize who you are not, then suddenly who you are becomes revealed to you. And who you are cannot easily be put into words because if it could, then it could be answered in one simple sentence and then everybody could repeat it and believe that they know who they are. So we start with knowing who you are not, and that begins for people sometimes with loss, where they lose something valuable they had identified with or death comes into their lives, some kind of breakdown or disaster happens. Sometimes, those people suddenly... OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Awaken. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Awaken. Something has been taken away from them that they had identified with for many years that had become part of their sense of self. And if something very fundamental that has been part of your sense of self is removeddeath, loss, collapse. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Even if it's a person, a human being who you loved. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): If could be somebody, yes, it could be somebody close to you who dies. Then, of course, at first, it leads to enormous suffering, and you feel as if part of you had died also. And for some people that happens even if they lose possessions because they were so identified with their possessions that when their possessions are removed, they feel, "There's nothing left of me." Another related to possessions is social position. If people fall from high, some high social positionthere's a scandal, it happens all the time in the news. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Not mentioning any names. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes, don't. You don't have to. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And then these people can be extremely painful if they had become totally identified with either their possessions or their social position, and they're suddenly faced with a kind of huge emptiness in their lives. And the question arises, "I'm nobody anymore." And this is the point, a decisive point is reached there where they can either continue to resist and suffer, resist what has happened internally, complain about it, tell themselves story about it, how it's all collapsed, or they can suddenly come to a point of acceptance of what happened and acceptance of the present moment, so the thing that was so important in their lives actually left behind. I sometimes compare it to, if you look at a person's life, it's a
tapestry, consists of all kinds of things that one identifies with. And when a great loss happens, it's almost as if, suddenly, "There's a huge hole in that tapestry of my life." OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Correct. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And that is painful when you identify with a tapestry. But behind the tapestry, there's a light that shines through because without that light, there won't be anything at all. That's why you can even see your life. Without the light of consciousness, nothing would be. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Behind the tapestry, there's a light there. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): I'm using a kind of analogy. So when you don't resist, this hole that has suddenly appeared in this tapestry of your life, then there's a light that shines through thenand I'm using it as an analogythere's suddenly a peace that comes when the emptiness that is left behind by the form that has dissolved is not resisted internally. And through that empty space there comes what the Bible calls "the peace that passes all understanding." Because you can't explain suddenlyand people have reported that this has happened to them, they lost, sometimes in some cases, everything, they suffered at first and then suddenly an inner shift happened. They accept it. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And this also happens when you are grieving somebody that you loved. Isn't it true? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because when you come to understand fully who you are, it doesn't mean that you will no longer be saddened when you lose loved ones. But you will also, when you become conscious, you then understand that they have just moved from form to formless and that the formless can have an easier way to come through now even more strongly than it did in the form. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): If you allow yourself to be with it and to see it and to experience it. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. What you just said, an example, I was talking to a woman who lost her son. He had an illness, he was about 28, I believe, and she was sitting next to him at his death bed. And the moment hejust a few minutes before he died and just after he diedshe could sense an enormous peace descending upon the room and filling the whole room, and she could feel that there was a sacred presence in the room in the moment of death. So she had totally surrendered to that. And it's very painful, it's even more painful for a parent to have to witness a child's death than the other way around, and so shethat was the most
sacred moment in her life. And that lasted for about 10 minutes. And after 10 minutes, her mind came in, and, suddenly, she started crying and protesting. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because the mind wants the situation to be different. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): The mind wants you alive again in the physical body or the mind wants the thing back that I have lost. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): The job, the position, the whatever. I think it's harder, though, when it comes to loved ones because there is a connection there. And there is, you know, nobody knows what happens, except maybe you, when we die. And so there's this feeling that, you know, "I have lost someone." Is that feeling selfishness? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No. It's a normal feeling because there was, even if you truly love somebody, of course, what you love in the other person is deeper than the form, the external form of that person, nevertheless, there's always a little biteven true lovethere's a little bit of attachment to the form also. Because the light comes through the form. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): The light comes through the form. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): All right. Let's go here to page 186, everybody. This is one of my favorite things. I have a cold, so if I look I'm sucking on a cough drop, I am. "Unconscious people and many remain unconscious, trapped in their egos throughout their liveswill quickly tell you who they are, their name, their occupation, their personal history, the shape or state of their body, and whatever they identify with. Others appear to be more evolved because they think of themselves as an immortal soul or divine spirit. But do they really know themselves, or have they just added some spiritual-sounding concepts to the content of their mind? Knowing yourself goes far deeper than the adoption of a set of ideas or beliefs. Spiritual ideas and beliefs may at best be helpful pointers, but in themselves they rarely have the power to dislodge the more firmly established core concepts of who you think you are, which are part of the conditioning of the human mind." This is my favorite in this chapter. One of my favorites. I have three stars, then another star when I read it a second time, another star. "Knowing yourself deeply has nothing to do with whatever ideas are floating around in your mind. Knowing yourself is to be rooted in Being, instead of lost in your mind."
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That was beautifully written. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And so I mentioned that because some people identifiedmany people identified with external things. You mentioned, I believe, a week or two ago that somebody mentioned to you that they suddenly realized that they are not their car. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): They're not their car. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That's the beginning early stage of disidentification. But it's good. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But we do think we are and that's where you wrote the whole chapter. We do think we are our roles, you know? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, our roles. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because a lot of people have important roles; roles as parents. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And roles in important positions that affect a lot of people's lives, and people think that they are their roles and they identify with their status in the world and what they have achieved. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That's right. And, of course, it's a question of finding a balance of honoring the role that'sof honoring the function that you have in this world, so that's fine. You have to do whatever you're doing. You fulfill your function as mother or father or in some other capacitysome public function, business function, whatever it is. So to honor the function, without becoming totally identified with the function so that always there's still a human being there, not just a function. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So, "Knowing yourself deeply has nothing to do with whatever ideas are floating around in your mind." Meaning, knowing yourself deeply has nothing to do with me being on television every day speaking to people. And even maybe doing a good job at itactually doing a good job at it. And all the great jobs that everybody else is doing who's listening. Those are identifications.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Identifications. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): With form. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And also, but I mean, what you just read is people sometimes have certain ideas in their mind of who they are. And they may be spiritual ideas: "I'm eternal spirit." That's, of course, wonderful, and basically it is true, but do you truly know that? Because in order to truly know that you are moreyou are much deeper than this formgoes far beyond holding certain concepts in your mind. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It goesthis kind of knowing is a knowing that it goes beyond conceptual knowing. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because if you really knew that, you would have a certain way of being or living in the world that would manifest that in the world. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Exactly. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That would manifest your being in the world. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That's right. Andbutand particularly when situations happened, your reaction to a situation always tells you where you are at as far as your level of consciousness. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That is why a lot of people become annoyed with people who claim to be so spiritual or so religious, who are intolerant of other people, intolerant of other ideas, selfrighteous, imposing their ideas on other people, because if you truly were what you say you are. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So moving on to who you think you are. This is one of mybeautiful statements here, on page 187, everybody. "If small things have the power to disturb you, then who you think you are is exactly that: small. That will be your unconscious belief. What are the small things? Ultimately all things are small things because all things are transient." And you say, "Your sense of who you are determines what you perceive or is your needs and what matters to you in lifeand whatever matters to you will have the power to upset and disturb you." So people all the time say, "You know, I'm a peaceful person, I'm a loving person, I'm a kind person, I'm a generous person. I'm a good person."
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, and then the slightest thing goes wrong, and, suddenly, something else comes up, which is total opposite of the good person. And so this is not the deep knowing of who you are. The deep knowing, really, iswe use the word "know" here in a somewhat differently from the conventional way of using the word "know." Usually, knowing is conceptual knowing. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So the analogy one could have, which is sometimes given, is with honey. You can examine the chemical makeup of honey; you can examine the molecular structure of honey OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I can tell you it's sweet. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): You can write a PhD about honey, or you can write poems about honey, but if you never tasted honey, in other words, if honey has not merged with you, then you don't really know honey. But the moment you taste honey, then you know honey. And all the other stuff beforehand, even your PhD about honey if you wrote one, is not knowing, not true knowing. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Knowing. Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It's only conceptual. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay, so, "to be rooted in being instead of lost in your mind." And what does that mean to be rooted in being? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Again, we're using words here to describe something that really is beyond words. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's not describable. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yeah. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): But just a little hint is, we always come back, of course, here in this teaching to the present moment. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Absolutely.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So when your attention moves fully into the present moment and that moment you go deeper into being. You could say that life has two dimensions: has the horizontal dimension of life; past, future, where everything happens, and most people, their whole existence is on that horizontal surface dimension of life. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And they think that's their life. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): They think that's all there is. And, of course, then, life is quite a threatening place because you OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): All that is transient. It changes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Very transient. And you'veso you've never encountered the deeper dimension. This, by the way, isa few people have interpreted the Christian crosswhich we mentioned, also, last time in a slightly different contextthe Christian cross as being, showing the horizontal dimension of life, and suddenly it intersects with the vertical dimension. It's also the dimension of the sacred. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And so you enter the vertical dimension by beingbecoming present, by bringing your attention into the now. So, then, because then past and future disappear from your consciousness. And at thisat this moment, there's only the now, and suddenly a depth opens up within you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And so what you've been saying throughout this book is that if you are living your life in the horizontal; the past and the future, then you're not really living. You're making enemies of this present moment. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And you're not truly living. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And that when you saywhat I interpret what you say, "Knowing yourself is to be rooted in being instead of lost in your mind," is to, in every encounterand I've been doing this more and morebringing, coming back to your breath. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Coming back to the present moment in such a way that you are aware and conscious of everything that's going on around you. And recognizing that you, you, you are that awareness. That's who you are. You are the observer of all these things that are going on in the horizontal plane of your life. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Exactly. So with the vertical comes the witnessing presence, the observer. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right. Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So and that's the liberation. That'ssometimes this word "liberation" is used in spiritual context. That's the liberation from the horizontal dimension, which Jesus calls "the world." OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. Do you knowmay I just share this? I know we have DEBBY from the Netherlands on Skype, but maybe this will help illustrate this for you. A couple of years ago, I wrote this in my magazine, for one of the "What I Know for Sures," I was walking with my friend Bob Greene on New Year's day two years ago, on a mountain in Hawaii, and it was late evening, the sun had set while we were walking, and the moon had come up, and the clouds had come in and come down to the ground where we were. And, all of a sudden, we were walking, and we were surrounded by the clouds. We were in the clouds on this mountain. And you could only see a sliver of the moon, just a sliver of it. And I think Bob made a comment like, "It looks like the Dreamworks logo, the moonit looks like you can go and sit up there with a fishing pole." And we were walking along, and all of a sudden he turned around and he said, "Can you hear that?" And I stopped, and it was completely utterly still. It was so still, it makes me want to weep thinking about it. It was so still that it felt like all of time and no time. It felt like the Earth had stopped, that everything had stopped. So much so that my very breath was so loud, I began to hold my breath because my breath was making too much noise in the stillness. And, in that moment, I understood what you had written in Stillness Speaks. That that is always there. That stillnessthere's not a bird, or a cricket, or a frog, or a car horn or anything. That is always there. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And that's also an inner dimension. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And that is the same as I. I am that. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I am that stillness. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It was a powerful spiritual experience for me. I've never forgotten. I got chills now for even thinking about it. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes, that's wonderful. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Cause you recognize that is always there. When all the noise and, you know, fireworks and all the things that go on on this mountain, that is always there. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Consciousness, we could call italthough labels are always limiting. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): But you could say that is pure consciousness. Before the consciousness becomes somethingbefore it's born into a formit's there in its pristine, formless, timeless stage. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And in all things. That's why you were asking us to look around the room; there is the stillness of all things. It's easier to determine in nature, though. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's harder with a table. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, it's harder, and even harder with human beings because there's so much mind there. But, so nature but even in so-called inanimate objects that you perhaps never even look at, haven't looked at for years they've been around yousometimes it's wonderful to pick up an object and just be aware of its silent presence, no matter what it is. Because whatever it is, ultimately, nothing is inanimate. And physicists would agree because if you go deep into any so-called inanimate objects, you realize it's intensely alive. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's easy to do with trees, as I said earlier. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Oh, yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And so the essence is, what we're trying to get here, is that that is who we are; that stillness.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, thethat's the essence of our being. That's who we are at the deepest level. This is the timeless dimension within us. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And when you're saying that even when you pass on, when you transition to another, to the formless, that stillnessthat consciousness, that spirit, whatever name you choose to give itis still there. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. That awareness is timeless. It's not subject to birth and death. As I said somewhere, the opposite of the opposite oflife has no opposite. Usually people think in terms of life and death. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And death, yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): But, really, death is the opposite of birth, it's not the opposite of life. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Hmm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Life, in its essence, has no opposite. It's eternal. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Debby's from the Netherlands and lives in the city of Haarlem. She's Skyping us from her family room there. I understand you have a question about a quote on page 187 about small things disturbing you. I love this quote. Go ahead, Deb. DEBBY: Hi. Hi Oprah. Hi Eckhart. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Hi. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Hi. DEBBY: My question is high sensitivity. I always considered myself a sensitive person, and that means I'm easily overwhelmed by day-to-day life things that might be considered small. I've been practicing staying in the moment with changing moments, but I think I need some more advice. Is high sensitivity just a narrow egoic state? And do you have some tools that might help me to stop feeling so overwhelmed by all these small things? OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That does sound like a label you've given yourself. DEBBY: Yeah, yeah. I know (inaudible).
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "I'm a highly sensitive individual." Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes, that is true. So that'sthat, also, we need to address. Can you give perhaps two or three examples of what kind of things you are very sensitive to? DEBBY: Well, a lot of things, but usually when I go into a shop, and there's loud music there, I just want to run away. I have a hard time dealing with noise and chaos. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, or being in a big city, traffic. DEBBY: Yeah. Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Well, I suggest that you experiment a little bit when these situations arise and you feel the same thing happening again. And if you bring very alert attention to the situation, you realize that, really, there are three levels to this situation. Level one is whatever it is that disturbs you, the external noise, the chaos, the traffic, whatever it may be, so there's the thing that disturbs youlevel one. Level two, there is your reaction to that thing that disturbs you, which could come as ait could be an almost physical reaction. There's perhaps a contraction in your body. It could be also an emotional reaction of frustration, irritation, anger, I assume, something like that, right? And also, in addition, the reaction could be certain thoughts in your head about the situation that says, "I can't stand being here any longer, it's dreadful, dreadful." This is level two. Now, be aware ofthat these two are, first of all, separate. There is the triggering event or situation, and then there is your physical, emotional, mental reaction to that. And, now what is level three? That is usually overlooked, but level three is where, ultimately, freedom lies. Level three is your awareness of both these levels. You are aware that there is the situation, the event, "There is my reactionphysically, emotional, mental. And there is myself being the aware space for those two." And if you can bring your attention more to that deepest level, then you realize changes will happen on the other two levels. If you recognize yourself, not as the reacting entity that happens in you, but that's not who you are OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Got it. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): But you recognize yourself as the awareness that is aware of this thing that's happening out there, of the thing that's reacting inside. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So it's just actually like, Debby, you're observing your own behavior. You're observing your ego's behavior toward ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You're observing your ego's behavior. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): With no attachment; just as pure observation, pure awareness. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Like, "Oh, isn't that interesting? I'm getting so upset over this guy pulling in front of me." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Just being there as the awareness. And that's already the beginning of freedom. And then, increasingly, you realize that you are that; you are not the entity that is reacting. And then, as Oprah said, then you can let go of thinking for yourself, of having this concept of yourself as a highly sensitive person that perhaps you mightit's not natural, nothing personal in thisyou may have become attached to because you've lived with this concept of who you are for many years. So that's thethat's where freedom lies. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But in addition to Debby's question, let's say, and for her, you know, she labels herself or defines herself as a highly sensitive person, but let's say a person gets upset about someone putting a dent in his or her car, or you spill coffee on your blouse right before an important meeting, or your child gets sick or you get sick, are you saying that if we get upset about these things, these kind of things that we don't know who we truly are? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): If the dimension of presence or awareness is missing, then you are lost in the reaction. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You think you are the reaction. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Then you become the reaction, and when you become the reaction, you don't know who you are. It's a misperception of who you are. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You got that, right, Debby? DEBBY: Yeah, yeah, I got it. Yeah. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, I got it too. DEBBY: It helped me a lot. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Isn't it good when you get it?
DEBBY: Yeah. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I got it too. I got it too. And just detaching yourself, it doesn'tthat doesn't change the situation. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It doesn't immediately change the situation. But you do find that as you practice this, changes suddenly appear. Changes sometimes first appear in the force that is behind your reaction that lessens. You still react, but less; not as strongly. And, miraculously, you sometimes even find that if you totally because, really, the awareness level is also part of the acceptance. You completely accept that, "At this moment, this is what I feel, and this is what the external situation is," with complete acceptance. Even changes often happen miraculously in the external situation. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. I think acceptance of the situation, which you talk about in "Power of Now," and also repeatedly in A New Earth, acceptance, nonresistance to the moment is one of the most important things we can learn. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And that is whether or not you're facing a crisis whether you're facing someone you've lost; a loved one, or whether you're, you know, in traffic and are a highly sensitive person, nonaccepting what is in that moment is the most important. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And you can practice with little things because little things happen throughout the day that people feel irritated about, angry about, protesting against, and so on. All with little things. You will have many opportunities to practice, so it's a wonderful spiritual practice. So you use what youbefore you wanted to get rid of, you use it as part of your spiritual practice, and, as a byproduct, you also eventually get rid of it. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thanks, Debby, thanks so much. DEBBY: Okay, thank you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): From the Netherlands, thank you. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Thank you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Everybody says they want peaceinner peace and peace on earth. On page 188 you say, "If peace is really what you want, then you will choose peace. And if peace mattered
to you more than anything else and if you truly knew yourself to be a spirit rather than a little me, you would remain nonreactive and absolutely alert when confronted with challenging people or situations." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That's theso there'syou can either be reactive; act according to your the way you've reacted for many years, your past conditioning, or you can become more alert when a challenging situation happens so that you don't internally separate yourself from the situation. So that when you completely open yourself to the situation, yet you bring an alertness to it, an alertness of presence. So you're facing the situation totally with that state of alert presence. You're not reactive anymore. And if something needs to be said or done in the situation, the words will suddenly come from that level of consciousness; from that alert stillness. If you need to do something, then the right thing, the right doing will happen instinctively orinstinctive is not the right wordintuitively the right thingyou will do the right thing. So OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because it will be borne out of a sense of presence. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Out of presence. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Or a sense of being, which is another word that we're using. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, that's right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And so anywhenever you are upset about any situation, there's a line in the Course in Miracles that says, "I am never upset for the reason I think." OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "upset for the reason I think." Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So because when you're upset, you have lost yourself on the external levelwhat we call the horizontal level. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But aren't there some things worth upsetting you? I mean there are injustices in the world and there are horrible things happening all the time in the world that we should be upset about.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): I wouldn't say that we should be upset about. It is normal for people to be upset about this, but it is not the most effective way of bringing about change. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Got it. You can be upset all day long and nothing changes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Nothing happens. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Cause people have been upset for years and things don't change. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Yes. People are upset about violence; they're upset about war, continuous war between nations, and so on. It continues to happen. And you cannot fight against unconsciousness. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, somebody e-mailed me today. They said they were upset about 13-year-old girls having to marry so-called ministers. Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Upset about it, but being upset about it changes nothing. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No, so it's more powerful to face a situation and see, "This is how it is," and then see if action is possible. "What is it that can be done?" OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Got it. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And then there's no negativity in the action. But if you are resisting, if you are complaining about a situation already, whatever you do, negativity flows into what you do. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. I just got something earlier, and the reason I'm thinking about this cause a friend of mine had lost his brother and was saying that, you know, he was having such a hard time letting go, and what I just had in this moment, something clicked for me, is that when people do finally are allowed to move on from their grief, it's because they have come to the point of acceptance that their loved one is gone. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And what you're saying is, in any situation, whether it's the loss of a loved one, or loss of a position, or loss of whatever, that you're faced with, acceptance of the situation and beginning to deal with what is going on now instead of wondering or worrying about what could have been, should have been, might have been, changes the situation and the way we feel about it. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And that your pain and suffering is caused and stress is caused because you refuse to accept the now. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. You're not one with the now. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Got it. So tonight we're Skyping with a new study group in West Hollywood, along with Borders, where we've been Skyping in Borders in Chicago. Now, we've moved to Hollywood. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Very good. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): At the famed Bodhi Tree. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Oh, I love that bookstore. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I love that ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): I was there some yearsI gave a talk there. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Don't you love that bookstore? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I do too. The Bodhi Tree is considered by many to have one of the best book selections in Los Angeles for the mind, body and spirit. So, hi, everybody at Bodhi. CROWD: Hi. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): God, everybody looks so California-like. We can tell we're not in Chicago, everybody's all bundled up. I Skyped Tenisha at the Bodhi Tree earlier today on The Oprah Show, and she's back tonight with a question. Hi, Tenisha.
TENISHA: Hi Oprah, how are you? OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Good to see you. And your question? TENISHA: Yes, my question has to do with reactivity. On page 208, Tolle says the more reactive okay, "What is reactivity? Becoming addicted to reaction. The more reactive you, the more entangled you become with form. The more identified with form, the stronger the ego." My question has to do withI've always related being reactive to being sensitive. And being sensitive allows me to be very passionate about things, allows me to connect with other people and be emotionally available to my friends and family. So my question is, how can I retain sensitivity and be passionate about things and keep that, but not allow my ego to get stronger? OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Great question, Tenisha. Thank you. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, thank you. Well, reaction may appear to be a sign of sensitivity, but actually reaction is not sensitive. Reaction is a conditioned way of responding to a situation, and you are notall reaction really comes from the past because it's part of the way in which you've been conditioned. And because it comes from the past, it is never totally adequate to the present moment. So sensitivity is actually lost when you're reactive, and true sensitivity comes when you are absolutely present in a situation and see, "This is how it is," and you totally face the situation as it is. And when that comes, enormous sensitivity, and you canwith that comes also intuition. It's only when you internally don't resist a situation, then the intuitive faculties arise within you. As long as you internally resist a situationand reactivity's always some form of resistanceas long as you internally resist, then the intuitive faculties cannot really come in because you're acting out old conditioning. Intuition comes out of presence; out of the present moment. So bringing presence to a situation, then that means you become absolutely sensitive. And that's also a deeper aliveness and a deeper power than what looks like power and aliveness when you observe somebody reacting. Sometimes it might look very passionate, but really they are acting out their past conditioning; the ego is acting out. That's not true passion, it's the ego wanting this or that from the situation; wanting to manipulate the situation, wanting to get something out of the situation, whatever, but not being truly present. So it's only through presence that the true sensitivity is there. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you, Tenisha. TENISHA: Thank you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And all you Bodhi people. Thank you so much. The Bodhi Tree, love that. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Really, that's great. Continuing on with who we are because I know so many people have this as a prominent question for themselves, you say on page 189, "Nobody can tell you who you are. It would just be another concept, so it would not change you. Who you are requires no belief. In fact, every belief is an obstacle." What does that mean? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It means who you are has nothing to do with any thought that you might have about yourself. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So does who you are have nothing to do with what you've done? So you spend your life here doing all this work and working, working, working, working, making money, taking care of your family, doing all the thing that people do, and that has nothing to do withand then youat your funeral they read your, you know, words about you, and say this is who you are? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Well, and then there's the gravestone, and on the gravestone there is the date of birth. And there is a one- or two-inch dash, and then there's the date of your death. And the dash is, really, all your ambitions, and your fears, and your drama, and your problemsthat's what's left on that level. So I'm not saying not to honor the level of form, because that's what we're talking about; whatever you do in this life, this horizontal level where we do things, where we have our functions and play roles, you honor that level but realizing there is something more vital; there is something deeper than just that. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. Bridgette says, "Dear Oprah and Eckhart, Can you explain the quote on page 192, 'But nothing you can find out about yourself is you. Nothing you can know about you is you'?" ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So I'm making a difference here between knowing yourself and knowing about yourself. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And I mention as an example, if you got to a conventional psychoanalyst, let's say, you will spend some years examining the makeup of your conditioning, of your past, your childhood and so on. You find out more and more about yourself; things that perhaps you hadn't seen clearly about your emotions, about the makeup of your thoughts and so on. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And all that is knowing aboutit's to do with content. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): "The content of my life and the content of my mind, ultimately, because my life isI know it only as the content of my mind." So that is knowing about yourself. And you can know thousands of facts about yourself and your history and still not know who you are because that knowing has nothing to do with this conceptual knowing with bits of information. It's the deeper knowing. I gave the analogy earlier of the honey. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): The honey. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): You can know about the honey. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Or you can taste the honey because, when you taste the honey, the honey becomes you; it merges with you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right, that's right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): In that sense, knowing who you are in a nonconceptual way is being fully who you are, is being in touch with that deeper level of being, wherethat you can only access in the present moment, the vertical dimension. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Can I askwell, if you are reading this book and suddenly become to understand or not reading this book and understand, as you say, many people say, "Well, I'm a spiritual being, you know, I'm on my spiritual path." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): As many people have said, you know, as they're readingas I'm reading all of the message boards, which I love, by the way, keep them coming, they say, "Well, I've been on this spiritual path for many years, or I'm a spiritual person." Aren't you just a little step closer thinking you're a spiritual person, or is that another form of your ego saying, "I'm a spiritual person?"
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Well, you have to OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because I've said for years, "I recognize I'm spirit." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, that is OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Come fromcome from the greater spirit. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So I can use the word, I am consciousness come out of the greater consciousness that I call God. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Or spirit that come out of a greater consciousnessspirit that I call God. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So I recognize that. I know that intellectually. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. So in that sense you can say intellectually that is a true statement. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, but I also feel it deeply. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): The question is whether, and this isI know you do, but anythe question is whether you truly feel that as a reality. And a way of finding out how deeply you truly know this is whenhow you react to situations in your life and how you react to other people in your life. It's there that you find out whether your belief that you are spirit, whether you truly know that or whether it's no more, as I put it, than an idea floating around in your mind. Do you know it in the depths of your being? Because then the way in which you deal with situations and people is very different. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Correct. I've always believed that I really was God's child. That I was, you know, come from, and as I've gotten older and could articulate it better, you know, I use other ways of describing it, but I believe that I came from that which is God. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And was born of that, and so therefore, really have no real fears in the world. I've always believed everything would be okay. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): No matter what, I'm going to be okay because of that. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And you can OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And that's more than a belief, actually. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): More than a belief. You can sense that. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): In some way that it's hard to describe, but you can sense that ultimately there isn't you and God. There is a deep place where you and God merge; there's the oneness with that. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, I've just gotten that later in life. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I used to think God was out there. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Eleanor lives in Boston, Massachusetts, and is Skyping us from a friend's house. Hi, Eleanor. ELEANOR: Hi Oprah, Hi Mr. Tolle. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Hello. ELEANOR: This is such a great experience. I really thank you so much for it. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, thank you. Your question is?
ELEANOR: My question is, on page 192, you say, "You may not want to know yourself because you are afraid of what you may find out." And my question's about letting go of your insecurities or what you would call your ego. For many years now I've been handling, so to say, an eating disorder, and it's pretty much beenit's consumed a great part of my identity; that's how I identify myself, and I feel that causes a great lacking in me. And, in a way, I do want to left go, but then a great part of me just wants to hold on to this identification of myself. And I guess my question is, what is this next step from awakening to the fact that I should move on and acting upon that? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That's the deriving your sense of who you are from certain thoughts or mental images that you have about yourself, and that's a normal identity that people have. They derive a sense of self from certain mental images or thoughts they have about themselves, which they repeat to themselves, which they talk to others about. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes, it's what Debby was saying to us earlier from the Netherlands, "I'm a very sensitive person; therefore, lots of things overwhelm me." Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And that's alreadyon one level that is true, but if you become too identified with a label like that, then that becomes a hindrance going beyond it. That's why you immediately said when she said that, "Ah, there we have a label." OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): The label. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And so there's a similar thing, perhaps, that happens to you, so it's really finding within yourself something that is more powerful, more genuine, more truly who you are than any image that you have in your mind. And we have to come back here toreally, the essence of this teaching, which is present moment, you have to invite the present moment into your life as frequently as you can. You have to make room for the present moment because it's only when you make room for the present moment that these images and mental concepts about who you are do not operate. So when you become present and I've already given hints about how to, little things you can do to become present. At the beginning of our session today, we had this little meditation where we said, "Be aware of your sense perceptions, touch things, look at things, listen to things without judging, without labeling," then the alertness rises. The key is hereanother word for presence is the alertness. And so you become alert also within. You feel the aliveness of your inner body. Rather than having a mental concept of who you are, you feel the entire energy field, that which animates the physical form, and you are in touch with that. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes, and Eleanor, what I would sayadd to that is is that you haven't done that enough because once you start to do that, when you get in touch with the inner body, when you begin to feel the inner space, when you begin to feel the presence in being that is really you, you realize you're bigger than your little self with an eating disorder. When you startand the reason why
you're still attached to this idea of having an eating disorder is because that's as big as you know yourself to be right now. And when you know yourself to be something more, you will choose to be the something more and not this little me that has an eating disorder. That's how I see it. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, that's it. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's how I see it. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And that's why you're clinging to it, cause you don't know who you are. ELEANOR: Yeah. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Cause you don't know who you are. ELEANOR: It's very difficult to move beyond that. I mean, I may, in my mind, understand it intellectually that I'm greater than this issue. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, yeah. ELEANOR: But it's hard. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's not going toyou're not going to help yourself through your mind. ELEANOR: Right. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's what Eckhart is saying in this whole book. That real healing, real everything, creativity, real joy, real presence in being comes from that space; the inner space of consciousness or presence in being. And the reason why you're attached to the idea is because that works for you. That works for you right now. ELEANOR: It's very easy; it's safe. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, it works for you because you like playing small right now. And so maybe you're not ready. But what he just described for you is exactlyand it doesn't happen overnight. It doesn't mean that, you know, tomorrow you're going to wake up and not have an issue. It's slowly bringing more and more consciousness into your daily way of being that allows you ELEANOR: It's a lot of effort, that's for sure.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And I would say this Eleanor, I would say you're worth it. ELEANOR: Thank you, thank you so much for this opportunity. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I would say you're worth the effort. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. ELEANOR: Thank you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you. I want to move on to abundance, and there was a question that I had earlier that you had on here about abundance, I love that question. But there's a lot in Chapter 7 about abundance and that we are not the little me that we think we are, you say on page 190. "Whatever you think the world is withholding from you, you are withholding from the world. And you are withholding it because deep down you think you're small and that you have nothing to give. Try this for a couple of weeks and see how it changes your reality: Whatever you think people are withholding from youpraise, appreciation, assistance, loving, care, and so ongive it to them." So is abundanceI was lookingdo you have that question to put back here, the abundance question that somebody had asked in e-mail? What's so great about this, I think, is that it's something people can do every day right now, is to start to give that which you say you most want. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And it starts with recognizing external abundance. That if the act of recognition that there's external abundanceand what that is we'll see in a secondis the act of recognition of external abundance already brings out the abundance that is an essential part of your very being. So when you recognize abundance withoutand what I'm suggesting there is to look atwalking past a store where there's a display of fruit, apples, oranges, and you see the abundance and the aliveness that is there; acknowledge it there. Abundance doesn't mean that you need to buy many things. You can buy or not buy. But it's theyou see the abundance of water, rain falling from the sky; there's an abundance of water. There's an abundance of aliveness. There's an abundance of joy in the dog that's going past you there. And so to recognizeto see the abundance that surrounds you, even if you're very poor in the eyes of the world, the abundance is always there around you, but you need to recognize it; acknowledge it. And another word for that is "gratitude." OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I know. I was going to say, that's why I've kept a gratitude journal for years. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): If you keep a gratitude journal listingI do, the same, just five things in the day that made you most gratefulwhat you start to notice is is that there are more things added to your list, and you don't even have time to write them all.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And when you start to pay attention to the things. Okay. And you also say, "Acknowledging the good that is already in your life is the foundation for all abundance." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And again, many people make that mistake because they believe that, "There is nothing good in my life." And that's absurd. It means they are not present, they are trapped in certain stories in their head, which tell them continuously that, "There is nothing good in my life." And if they only opened their eyes and looked around, and if they smelled the air, saw the sunlight, the most abundant thing you can see is the sun. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, I think the most abundant thing you can have is your breath. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): The breath. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Come back to your breath. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It's beautiful, yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes, come back to the breath. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So you can be with that. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): When you can't think of anything to be grateful for, go to your breath. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Breath, or the aliveness in your hands and in your arms, to feel that. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, the e-mail question from Rose Anita in Georgia was to ask you to please explain what you mean by "abundance comes to those who already have." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Now, abundance, you need to recognize that as coming from within you. Abundance is not external things that come to you that make you abundant. Abundant is the energy that flows out of you, out of the being of who you are into this world. So the beginning ofyou initiate this process by recognizing the abundance that's all around you externally.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "Outflow determines inflow." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And then it suddenly, the recognition already draws it out, you see? OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I was going to say, isn't gratitude in itself an energy field that draws more to you? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Isn't it its own vibrational frequency that draws more to you? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's what I interpreted you saying. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That's it. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Is that gratitude is its own energy field. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And that when you acknowledge and are grateful for whatever you have, when you can see and feel the gratitude, experience the gratitude in whatever you have, that changes your vibrational frequencyliterally. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And allows more to be drawn to you. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. It changes your entire reality. It changes the way in which you experience life. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes it does. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It changes your world. And so it'sif that's the only thing people remember, there are many things in this book, but just if they want to change their lives, they're not happy with their lives, bring gratitude into it, which is, of course, connected also to the present moment because it's only, "Here in this momentwhat is it in this moment that I can be grateful for?"
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Be grateful for. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And then you suddenly say, "Oh, it's all that." There's alwaysit's miraculous if you truly look around and sense and feel, it's miraculous. The entire universe is miraculous. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And when you are so trapped in your thoughts that you don't see this anymore, then the entire universe becomes dead to you and there's nothing new that ever arises. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You know, I was practicing this this weekend, I was saying to Eckhart before we started that I was under the weather and had an obligation in New Orleans and wasn't able to fulfill that commitment, and normally I would've just been beating myself up about it, cause I've never had to cancel anything before, but I decided to be with the fact that I was sick. And I had one of the happiest days of my life being sick in bed because I accepted it and was not fighting the fact that I wasn't well. I thought, "I'm going to be with feeling badly, and I'm going to appreciate everything about the day." So every cup of tea that Stedman brought me, I was happy. And happy that I was, you know, I had clean sheets. I meanand happy that I could open the curtains and there was sun coming through the window. Justand I just had the most happy time being sick in bed. Yeah. So that's what you're talking about. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Being able to be grateful where you are. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, very, very powerful. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, if I hadn't read this book, I might not have been able to do that. So it's been very helpful to me. And you say ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, go ahead. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Sorry. You can be grateful for things that on the surface don't look so good. When you accept what is, you're grateful whatever situation arises. Let's say your car breaks down and you have to change the tire in the middle of the night, and even there you can say, "Okay," we come to this later in the book
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): You begin sometimes, a so-called negative situationbegins with not resisting it. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And so OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Don't you say in The Power of NowI just interrupted a thought. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yeah. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But don't you say in The Power of Now that all stress comes from resisting the present moment? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. It doesn't come from the situation, it comes from your thoughts about the situation. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because the tire needing to be changed by itself could not cause you to be stressed. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No, there's noit just is as it is. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It is as it is. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And if you can see that, then suddenly you move into that, and even there comes gratitude. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. So your stress is about wanting the moment to be different than what it is. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And that's whether it's a tire, losing your job, losing a loved one. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. And you sum this up, this abundance, by using a quote from Jesus saying, "Give and will be given to you. Good measure, pressed down, shaken together, running over, will be put into your lap." That is the truth, so help me. That is just the truth. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, it's an amazing, amazing statement. And also, somewhere else Jesus talks about OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You must like Jesus, you talk about him a lot. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Oh, yes. There was a time when II was brought up as a Catholic and then I, for many years I wasn't interested anymore, and then after I went through this inner shift, a couple of years afterward, I happened to pick up the New Testament, and I happened to read the gospels, and I suddenly saw how deep all this is, these statements. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right. Became more than doctrine for you. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Yes. And so Jesus somewhere else says, "I want you to have life in its fullness. I want you to have the fullness of life." And that's a beautiful statement. And people sometimes don't realize what he means by "the fullness of life" because, in our civilization particularly, the fullness of life means having as many things as possible. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And, of course, I'm convinced that Jesus was not talking about shopping malls. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): No. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Because if he was talking about shopping malls, then the kingdom of heaven has already arrived and it's in the shopping malls. So he was not talking about many, many things. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Eckhart made a joke, y'all. Eckhart made a funny. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): He was talking about something that is within you, the fullness of life is a dimension within you. And he went, "I want you to be in touch with that dimension within you." OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And you're absolutely right. If you get nothing else from this book, if you can get that, then your life will change.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Your life will change. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "And abundance comes only to those who already have it," page 192. "It sounds almost unfair, but of course it isn't. It is a universal law. Both abundance and scarcity are inner states that manifest as your reality. Jesus put it like this: 'For to the one who has, more will be given, and from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away.'" And he's not talking about things. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): He's talking about your inner state of gratitude for what you already have. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And your life will change. Laura from Baltimore is on the line and has a question for us. Laura? LAURA: Hi, Oprah. Hi, Eckhart. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Hi. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Hi. LAURA: Thank you so much for this opportunity. You've both been great spiritual teachers for me, and I'm just so grateful. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you. LAURA: My question is, before reading this book, I was someone who usually suppressed my emotions. And, on page 208, you talk about bringing an inner yes to whatever form that the now takes. So now, when I have the emotional of sadness arise, I try to apply this principle. In the past, I would have said no to the emotion and suppressed it, but now I worry that by saying yes to this emotion, it's just the ego tricking me into feeding the pain-body. How can I be sure that emoting is not actually strengthening my ego?
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Right, good question. So when you fully allow an emotion, it implies that you are there as the awarenessthe witnessing presencecause it's only from that space that you can say that, "This is what I feel, and here it is." It's part of the is-ness of this moment. And if you do that, the emotion cannot rise up into your mind and control your thinking. In other words, it does not become part of ego, it's only if the emotion rises up into your mind and then your mind starts to think along the lines of that particular emotion, and thereby feeding more energy to the very same emotion, that means you are strengthening that emotion, and it's becoming part of ego. But if you can just look at the emotion and allow it to be. Then the emotion is not going to feed on your thoughts anymore. So and then you will actually find when you allow an emotion to be, it subsides fairly quickly, and it's not part of the ego. This practice is going beyond emotion without repressing them. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You got that, Laura? LAURA: Yes, thank you so much. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): All right. I love that, I love that. Tell us the story of the Zen master on 199, the one who said, "Is that so?" I mean I think you have to be a Zen master practically to have that kind of reaction to everything in life, you know? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because when somebody attacks you, you know, that's a thing I still have to work on because I live in a world where people write things that are not true all the time. Somebody's working on a biography of me now, unauthorized. So I know it's going to be lots of things in there that are not true. And so I've gotten better at it, and I know everybody experiences it on one level or another. For me, it's people saying things about me that are not true. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That causes me to show myself as a small person. The little me comes out, and I'm, like, "That's not true." And so this Zen master who is able to say, when he's being accused of, you know, doing something horrible to this girl, "Is that so?" Who can do that? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It's a very extreme form of being one with the present moment. This is, I believeshould I tell the story? OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes, please do. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So there was a Zen master, he was highly regarded and he wasas a spiritual teacher, had a very good reputation. And, one day, neighbors of his came to him and said, "Our daughter is pregnant, and you
remember, she came to see you about some advice some time ago, and she has now confessed to us that you are father of this baby that's going to be born out to our 17-year-old daughter." And, of course, they didn't tell him this in the way that I'm telling it to you, they were very angry. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Is this a true story? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): I believe it is. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So there was an enormous anger in this situation, you can imagine, and the Zen master was listening to them as they were telling them that he had fathered this child. He was listening in that Zen state of open alert attention like this. And then when they had finished their story, "You are the father of this child." And he said, "Is that so?" "Yes," he said. And then, "We are goingwhen the child is born, you are going to look after the baby because you are responsible. "Is that so?" And so when the baby was born, they brought the child over to him. "Now, you look after the baby, it's not ours, you are responsible." And he accepted the baby, and the word got around that he had fathered a child by a 17year-old girl. He lost his reputation, no one came to see him anymore. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right, right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): He was totally indifferent to this because he was only responding to the needs of the present moment. So he started looking after the baby. And so he spent about a year looking after the baby and, in the meantime, the mother of the baby grew up a little bit more, and suddenly she confessed to her parents that the Zen master was not the father. She just didn't want to tell them that it was the boy who works in the butcher's, who was the father. And, of course, the parents got extremely upset, and they came running to the Zen master and said, "She's just told us that you are not the father." And he said, "Is that so?" "Yes, and so canwe would like our baby back, please." And so he handed the baby over. There's was allit's the story that OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You're supposed to be in the Zen-dom kingdom or something. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Continuousit's a story that shows an extreme example of absolute nonresistance and the good that comes because the baby was being looked after with loving care for a whole year by the Zen master. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But why wouldn't the Zen master, okay, cause he's a Zen master, is that the level that you are saying that we should be striving? Well, I know you're not saying we should do anything.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): We should do whatever we want to do. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It is not necessary. That is only to exemplify OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Cause I would be, "It is not true. It's not true." Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Or you can say, "No, I'm not the father. It's not true. I'm not the father." So you can say it in one way that is very reactive, and that would be the normal way. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Or you can say it in a way that is free of reaction and, nevertheless, states the truth. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So you're still surrendered inside. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): You're still accepting that thesethis is where they are at; this is what they believe, and simply you say, "This is not the case. I am not the father." OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Bottom line is, you're saying don't get pulled into the drama. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Don't get pulled into the drama. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): State your case, state the facts without allowing your ego to be pulled into the drama of it. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And then be able to move on. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That's right. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's what you're saying. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That's it. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. We've gotis it Fatema on the line from Kuwait? Hello, Fatema? FATEMA: Hello? OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Hello. FATEMA: Hi, Oprah. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Hi. FATEMA: Hi, Eckhart. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Hi. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Nice to see youor hearing you. Hi. FATEMA: Can you hear me? OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes we can. Go ahead with your question. FATEMA: Okay, great. Since I used to identifying our self with what we have and what we do, I would like to ask you, Oprah and Eckhart, to identify yourself, does that means or any form of identification so other people can get a better understanding of who they are and what you mention on page 186? OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay, Eckhart, go right ahead and do that. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): The sound wasn't so good.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): She was saying, since we're so accustomed to identifying ourselves through labels and what we do, she would like for you and II would like for youto identify yourself without using those labels of identification so that everybody listening can get a better idea, then, of how then do you describe yourself? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. So we're talking about being with another person, when you identify yourself, you're identifying to another person. So there's a situation where you meet somebody, perhaps somebody you don't know yet. So you can be there as an ego entity, in which case you would immediately explain your achievements, or you would explain your sufferings or your diseases that you identify with or whatever. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Sometimes people do it this way, which annoys me, they'll say, "What school did you go to?" ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's immediately to say whether or not you're in the category. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That's right. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "What school did you go to?" ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. So people, they wantas the mind, that's what the human mind doesthey want to be able to classify you, they want to be able to find out where they can put you in theirso they're asking questions about that, but you don't need to be drawn into that. And realize that as youand this is a very, very important thing OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay, so let's say we didn't know you, and you're at a gathering where people don't know you and I come up and introduce myself, and I say, "Hello, I'm Oprah. And I'm here with a convention, and I'myou know, I sold so many pharmaceuticals, and I didI've got three kids, I live in Oregon, whatever." How would you then describe yourself? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Well, perhaps I would not use that many words, but some words might be there. I wouldn't say, "I am a formless spirit" or anything like that. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You wouldn't do that? "Hello, I am formless spirit, Eckhart."
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): I once asked somebodyI met somebody at a reunion, and they knew that I had already written The Power of Now, so I was a spiritual teacher, and so I asked, for some reason we had a conversation and I asked, "How old are you?" And he said, "I was never born." He really wanted to teach me a lesson. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Oh, boy. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So you can be quite normal in your interaction, but more important is on a sensing level, you are there as a field of aware presence. And in an interaction with another human being, what matters is not so much the words that are being said, there's a deeper level of the awareness that arises, the fieldI call it the field of awareness that arises between two human beingsthe field of presence that arises when those human beings or even just one of them is not totally identified with their thinking mind of the ego, then I can be there as a conscious presence. Right now, as I sit here, I canI'm here as the conscience presence. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So you wouldn't say, "I'm Eckhart, formless spirit." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You would just say, "I'm Eckhart." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Eckhart. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "I'm Eckhart." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And if they say, "Whoa, hey, what do you do?" ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, then I give conventional answers: I am a writer. And they ask, "What do you write about?" And then depending onI kind of sense where they are at, whether it's a genuine question and they truly want to know or whether it's a questionwhen I come into the States from Canada every week, they ask me "What do you do?" And then I say, "I'm a writer." And then they ask, "What do you write about?" And then I'm not going to give a deep answer because they don't want a deep answer. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. They're not really interested.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No. So I give conventional answers. And yet, in every human interaction, even such an interaction as this, when the OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Fatema. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Always what isyou need to be able to sense that there is a presence underneath whatever you are saying. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Feel your own presence underneath it. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And that's what we're going to be talking about next week is to be able to bringthat is our role in this lifetime is to bring that sense of presence, who you really are, not the small little self that is, you know, has eating disorders, or shops too much, or all the other things that we define asin our horizontal lives with ourselves ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But to bring that presence into your active life. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That's right, yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That is our goal. Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): All right, let's talk about the joy of being. "Unhappiness or negativity is a disease on our planet. What pollution on the outer level is negativity," page 213, everybody. "What pollution on the outer level is negativity on the inner. It is everywhere. Not in just places where people don't have enough," I love this, "but even more so where they have more than enough. The affluent world is even more deeply identified with form, more lost in content, more trapped in ego." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I thought that was interesting.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Sometimes, you see when you visit certain places where people have relatively little, often you see more happy faces and radiant faces than in our rich society. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So the passage is about negativity, and there's an enormous amount of negativity in the collective energy field of our planet, but it is generated by individuals. So it's everybody's task to be alert so that when the negativity arises within them, they recognize it and then ask themselves whether that is what they choose. When you recognize it, you can be there as the presence, and you have a choice. Is negativity ever the optimum way of dealing with any situation? And if you look closely, you'll see it never is a good way of dealing with any situation. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay, you say on page 214, "The joy of Being, which is the only true happiness, cannot come to you through any form, possession, achievement, person, or event." That means people who think, "I'm with you, and I love you, and you're going to bring me joy," cannot. Yes. You either are joy or you're not. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. "through anything that happens. That joy cannot come to you ever. It emanates from the formless dimension within you, from consciousness itself and thus is one with who you are." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. It comes from within and not from without. People conventionally expect it to come to them from without, and then it usually doesn't because you need to discover it in yourself first. And this is why, when you try to manifest things in your life, which is a fine thing to do, but the vital question is, "Have you, first of all, already come to that place of fullness and joy within yourself right now? Have you found a right relationship with the present moment?" If you haven'tbecause that's where it resides. It's only by having a right relationship with the present moment that the joy can arise from within you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You talk about that on 210 when you say, "To awaken within the dream is our purpose now. When we are awake with the dream, the ego-created earth-drama comes to an end and more benign and wondrous dream arises. This is the new earth." Also, let's go to page 215, everybody. The top of 215 you talk about "A powerful spiritual practice is consciously to allow the diminishment of ego." Because what we've been learning through A New Earth is that most of us have, until reading this book, believed we were our egos, believed we were, as Eckhart has said earlier in tonight, we believe we were our horizontal life without the vertical. We believe we were our past, we believe we are what we're going to do and what we have done. And the now was always just a sort of means to an end.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay, so you say, "A powerful spiritual practice is consciously to allow the diminishment of ego when it happens without attempting to restore the ego. I recommend that you experiment with this from time to time. For example, when someone criticizes you, blames you, or calls you names" I got to tell you, it's hard to say, "Is that so?" "Instead of immediately retaliating or defending yourselfdo nothing. Allow the self-image to remain diminished and become alert to what that feels like deep inside you." So what's that supposed to do for us? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Now, it's notI'm not saying in each case you should do that. Experiment with this from time to time, particularly when nothing depends on that situation, so you don't have to explain something so that a situation can be put right or whatever. Somebody just calls you, we talked about it the other day OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Somebody cuts you off in traffic? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. So that would be a good practice because it's totally pointless to retaliate. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It makes no sense whatsoever. So, but the retaliation when somebody calls you names in traffic or whatever. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Or does something to upset you. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Try doing nothing. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, the retaliation is automatic and unconscious because it comes from the ego. Because when somebody calls you stupid, for example, or somebody calls you idiot, it injures the ego. It hurts the ego tremendously. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And it's the ego that's being injured, not you. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Not you, it's nothingbecause deep down you know that it's not you, it's just the ego image of "who I think I am."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Deep down youwell, deep down you know it's not you, but if you are a person who lives unconsciously, if you live out of your ego, you think it's you. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And, immediately, the ego will go into what I call instant self-repair mechanism. And this instant selfrepair mechanism is totally unconscious, automatic. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Says, "I am not stupid." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Well, it will call the other person something worse than stupid. And, by that, the ego believes it has repaired itself. And, on that level, it has. So this person has taken away something from you, the imaginary ego, and then you take something away from that other person. That's how the egos work. And then, of course it's probably not the end because the other person's going to retaliate again. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right, and now you're in it. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): The whole madness starts. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Now you're in the drama. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. So this is a good example where you can practice being nonreactive. So when somebody calls you something, remain totally OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And you say when that happens, just do it for a few seconds, it may feel uncomfortable, as it will, just to keep your mouth shut. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I've had that this week; just keep your mouth shut. It's hard. It feels like you've shrunk in size momentarily. "Then you may sense an inner spaciousness that feels intensely alive. You haven't been diminished at all. In fact, you have expanded." What do you mean by that? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, so somebodyyou are notwhat you are not defending is your egoic identity, the image identity. And suddenly that has become diminished by somebody, by calling you stupid, for example. This entity has become diminishedyou don't resist the diminishment, so it has become smaller, so to speak. And therefore, suddenly something that is deeper than that can suddenly come through because the ego has shrunk in size.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I got it. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Now, the ego doesn't like that. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): But it's a wonderful experiment when you allow the ego to shrink, and then suddenly you feel there is a power underneath that that's far greater than the ego. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And it shrinks every time you become aware of it. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Even when you don't do what you're supposed to do? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay, I like this question from Suhad in Clifton, New Jersey. "How can we use the high-quality no that you talk about on page 216 in our lives? Can you please provide us with real-life examples? 216; high-quality no. What did you mean by high-quality no? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): In some cases sometimes people misunderstand when I say, "Say yes to the present moment." They believe, then, whenever somebody asks you something, you have to say yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You're supposed to say yes. Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No, when I say, "Say yes to the present moment," it's to do with an inner, an inner state of consciousness that is open to what is; that does not resist what is. It does not necessarily mean that every time that somebody asks you something, you say yes. So let's say a person comes to you, you've known him, you've already lent him money five times; he's never returned it. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Or two, two is enough. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Two is enough. And so he says, "I need another $500 now." And then you perhapsthis may be a good opportunity and occasion where you can use a high-quality no that is not reactive and does not make
that person wrong and say, becomes angry and, or shout at him and say, "You are dishonest; you haven't returned my money. And I'm not giving you a penny more." This is a low-quality no. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Low-quality no. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): A high-quality no is to say... OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "Who do you think you are?" All that stuff. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): All that kind. Stories in order to be wrong. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Storiesyes, "I've given you money so many times before." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And then you make yourself into a victim. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It's all part of OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Or make yourself into the great person who's been so benevolent. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Whatever the egoic is. So the high-quality no is to simply state, "Well, I've already given you that money twice, and you haven't returned it yet, so I won't give you it anymore. You have to return my money first. I'm not going to give you" Can you sense that there's no negativity. You simply state clearly, "This is what I'm going to do or not do. I won't give you anymore because you haven't returned that." OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. That happened to me recently. Somebody was asking me for money, and just said, "No, I won't do that." And no emotion attached to it at all. All right, I just want to say here thatI love this on 220. "What you see, hear, feel, touch, or think about is only one half of reality, so to speak. It is form. In the teaching of Jesus, it is simply called 'the world,' and the other dimension is 'the kingdom of heaven' or 'eternal life.'" Then toward the bottom of the page, second-tothe-last paragraph you say, "The collective disease of humanity is that people are so engrossed in what happens, so hypnotized by the world of fluctuating forms, so absorbed in the content of their lives, they have forgotten the essence that which is beyond content, beyond form, beyond thought. They're so consumed by time that they have forgotten eternity, which is their origin, their home, their destiny. Eternity is the living reality of who you are." And that's what I felt on that mountain that day.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Yes. And you can actually sense it, although that's the wonderful thing when you can be surrounded by the stillness. But the amazing thing is you can actually sense that even in the midst of chaos, even in the midst of noise, I have felt also what you described. I've also very often felt that in nature. But I have also felt that extreme peace in situations where one wouldn't expect it. I felt it in the middle of London in busy streets walking around. Especially after I went through this shiftbefore I went through the shift, I was always anxious and fearful, and I couldn't stand the traffic and the noise. And suddenly I was able to just walk along Piccadilly Circus and be totally at peace as if I were in a mountaintop inside. So when you OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Mountaintop inside. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Inside, yeah. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And that's what presence is, is it not? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Presence is being on the mountaintop inside. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Yes. You hadthat stillness is always there in you as the essence of who you are. And when we call it stillness we already limit it because it's so vast, you cannot just describe it with one word. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So whatever word you use is already a limitation. But words are limited, of course, because words refer to tangible things but not to the inner reality. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So before we say goodbye, let's sum up what we've covered in this class. Knowing who you really are means knowing. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Knowing at a level beyond the level of concepts. Knowing yourself, ultimately, is being yourself fully. Being in touch with being, the being that you are. To sense the "I am" that is the essence of your identity when you remove all the identifications that usuallyyou sayafter you say "I am," you say what you are. But if you say "I am" and add nothing to it, that is a good practice that can get you in
touch with the essence. "I'm not this. I'm not that. I am." As a simple meditation, repeat the words "I am" to yourself. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's so powerful. I started to do that. It is so powerful when you do that. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, and don't fill in the blank after the words. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Very powerful. Another similar one is "Who am I?" It's a question, but don't look to the mind for an answer. In fact, don't look for any answer, especially not on the level of mind, "Who am I?" And then allow the stillness to be there after the question. Don't look for an answer. And in not looking for an answer, there's the answer, but it's not a mental concept as of sensing, feeling. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Wow. "I am." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And just be with that. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. And so for whether it's an addiction or an eating disorder, or nothingyou think you have a really wonderful life, but you are connected to all the thing in your life, the content of your life. Just being able to sit with yourself and to say those words to yourself, "I am." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It's wonderfully liberating. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And to recognize them, to know them like honey. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): To know them. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That's right. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you again.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Thank you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I wanted to thank you all for joining us. The seventh class will be available on demand tomorrow"Finding Who You Truly Are"for free here at Oprah.com. And if you want to download or watch any of our classes, of course you know this by now, you can do that tomorrow at Oprah.com and iTunes. It's free because of the generous support of people like Nature Made Softgel Vitamins. This week, update your workbook and get ready for our next class on Chapter 8, it's the discovery of inner space. I love this. It's next favorite chapter. I think 7, 8, and 9 are really the essence of the book. Inner space is about allowing the inner space of your life to connect to the outer purpose of your life. Inner and outer purposes of your life, right? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That's right. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Love it. Again, we thank you. This was a long chapter, lots to cover. I would say to everybody, I mean, I was sick in bed this weekend and read it again for the third time. Every time I read it, I go a little deeper and awaken a little more. So this is one you need to be with for a while over and over. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Definitely. And after you've read it once, you don't need to read long pages, just read sometimes half a page is enough, one page. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. What I do is I go back and readthis is what I would do. As you're using your highlighters, just go back and read what you've highlighted and just be with that because the things that you highlight are usually things that resonate with you more deeply. It's a good way of reviewing it. And every time you come back to it, you know, two weeks from now, you'll get something that you didn't get the first time. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Oh, yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Oh yes. Thank you. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Thank you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you, Eckhart. Thanks everybody.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Hi everybody, welcome to class number 8 of our New Earth Web series with author Eckhart Tolle. Eight means we only have two more to go. Tell all your friends. I'm going to miss it. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Me too. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, I'm going to miss it. As we head into these final chapters, it's really gratifying to hear from so many of you who feel that your commitment to this work is making a difference in your lives. I know I feel that way, and I would like to, again, thank all of the students from around the world who are watching, who are willing to awaken to the deeper meaning of your lives. Last week, one of the things that Eckhart said that really struck me; you said that the opposite of death is not life. The opposite of death is birth. Life has no opposite. So I think that's a good place to begin our moment of silence. Can we go into silence? Life has no opposite. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Life has no opposite, and perhaps as we go into the silence, to feel yourself to be life rather than a person. A person is here only for a few years. But you are basically life experiencing itself temporarily as this person. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): As this person, this personality, this ego. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. But underlying it, you are life that is eternal. And so when you go into stillness, it's easy to sense that underneath the personality there is an aliveness, there is a presence, there's a consciousness that is timeless. And that's the life beyond the form of life that you are. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And that's why it has no opposite. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That's right. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because it's forever. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And the opposites only exist in the world of form. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): In the world of form, I get that.
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ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So as we go into the silence, into the stillness, let's see if we can just feel that in the background you are alive, or rather I should say, I am life. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I am life. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Eternal timeless. So we go into the stillness now and get in touch with that eternal life. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): How wonderful. How wonderful to be able to get into touch with that. That's the inner space that you're talking about in Chapter 8. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Which is all about the discovery of inner space. That's what we're discussing tonight. Let's start with an overview of what this chapter is about. What is inner space, what you just described? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): I don't remember when this term first came to me; it must have been during a talk. I don't believe I used the term in The Power of Now. I realize that most people, most people's mind is full of stuff, full of one thought after another, full of continuously arising thoughts, emotions. And the external life is full of things that need doing, one thing after another, one thing after another. So I observe that in many people's lives, there seems to be no space. There's only one thing after another, one thought after another, one thing to do after another, one thing to be worried about after another. So I noticed this absence of space in human beings, and, really, that inner space or spaciousness is what we could also call the stillness. But I use different terms because any one term limits it when we talk about stillness, yes, it is stillness, but it's much vaster than just stillness. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. And vaster than being still. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So it's realizing that within you there's not only objects in your consciousness that continuously arise in your consciousness as sense perceptions; you experience things. Sense perceptions arise continuously, and each sense perception becomes an object in your consciousness. And then, thoughts arise continuously, and every thought becomes also an object that arises in your consciousness. Now, and this is what most people's lives consist of: continuously, objects arising in consciousness, and I call that "object
consciousness." And that is what most people know, and they also know themselves as an object in their conscience. They have an image of who they are. They have certain opinions about who they are. And so you become an object to yourself, and that is the ego. So mosta mental object; you make yourself into a mental object and then you have the relationship with yourself as a mental object. It's a little bit insane. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): But it's normal. So now, the incredible realization, this is where the spiritual dimension starts. There is no spiritual dimension in object consciousness. You can have all kinds of interesting-sounding or even religious-sounding doctrines. If there's no space in you, spaciousness, where suddenly a gap arises in between thoughtsif there's no spaciousness, then you haven't touched yet the spiritual dimension. And this book, I believe, is helping many people to find that space within. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You say on page 227, "Object consciousness needs to be balanced by space consciousness for sanity to return to our planet and for humanity to fulfill its destiny. The arising of space consciousness is the next stage in the evolution of humanity. Space consciousness means that in addition to being conscious of thingswhich always comes down to sense perceptions, thoughts, and emotionsthere's an undercurrent of awareness. Awareness implies that you are not only conscious of things, but you are also conscious of being conscious." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's what you're talking about. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And that's an amazing thing, at first, if you just listen to being conscious, the mind says, "What does that mean?" You can onlyyou have to experience what that is to know what it means. So to be conscious of being conscious, for example, you can do it by looking at somethingjust if people who haven't had a taste of this yet. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): For example, you look at a flower and youyou're conscious of the image, what you see, the sense perception. Now, the question is, "Can you also be conscious of yourself as the perceiving presence, without which there would be no perception?" OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Correct.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And soand that is the consciousness, so while you look at a flower, I'm saying flower because natural things can get you in touch with that dimension more easilywhile you look at a flower, can you sense yourself as the presence that is looking, that is making the perception possible? And then you have two dimensions. You're conscious of being conscious, and you are conscious of what you're looking at. You live in two worlds at the same time, and that bringsthat means in the background of your life, there's suddenly a vast, but intensely alive, peace. You're verybecause being conscious of being conscious is very peaceful. That's where the true inner peace arises. So OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And that if you don't have that in your life, if you're not able to find that space between the thinking and the perception, perception, perception, you're not, then... ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Then you lose yourself. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): In things. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): In things. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And in the world. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): You lose yourself in the world, and you lose yourself in your own mind. You continuously get drawn into every thought that arises. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. Well, one of thingsI know you met Dr. Jill Bolte Taylor today. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And I interviewed her on my radio show, the Soul Series on XM Radio, and for those of you who have been enjoying our webcast with Eckhart Tolle, the Monday following our final webcast, I will have an interview with her on the Web. Dr. Jill Bolte Taylor is a brain scientist who had had a stroke several years ago, and during the process of having the stroke, in the middle of having the stroke, she lost her left, the left hemisphere of the brain, which was language and the ego and all of that. But the right hemisphere remained conscious, and she was aware that she had lost the ego, and this sense of losing your mind, that you have been talking to us about, happened to her, was thrust upon her through the stroke. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. So I believe what happened to her was what we are talking about. She became conscious of consciousness itself.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): She became conscious of consciousness. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yeah. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Through the stroke. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And really, that'swhen we say that, when we express it in language and language always brings in a kind of duality, when I say, "I becomeI'm conscious of consciousness," it sounds as if I were separate from consciousness. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): This is because of the structure of language. In reality, what's happening is that consciousness is which is what I am, everyone is conscious of the essence. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Consciousness is becoming conscious of itself. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And you don't know that untiland that's why that tape is going around the web of Dr. Jill Bolte Tayloryou don't know that until you can quiet the mind enough to know that you are not all of these thoughts that you have in your head. You are not your thoughts. But you are life itself. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That is what she also says in her book and in her lectures. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That's a wonderful realization, just when it comes to a person for the first time, it's just, whoa. And that frees you from a lot of things that before were so heavy, such athe world can become such a burden to people, and your own mind can become such a burden. It creates so much suffering in people's lives. If people had to live with somebody who inflicts all that negativity on them that they inflict on
themselves through their own mind, they would have left that person a long time ago. But you can't leave your mind; you can only go beyond it. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And so being able to be conscious of your consciousness or aware of yourself as a perceiving entity or perceiving presence is really what the true awakening is about. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes. That's the awakening to who you are beyond the external appearance. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And that is what we're doing when we're angry and you see your ego flare up, and all of that is to be able to step back and perceive yourself as the consciousness observing yourself as the angry person. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. In the background OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): The space in between that. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That's right. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And so the inner space you're talking about is the space between, "I am angry; I'm saying all of these things," and then there is the other self that is observing that. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And now, if you're angry and ifthe presence can be there in the background OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That means there's alreadyyou're already very present because it's not easy to remain present when there's anger. Because anger has an enormous power.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. But if you're observing it, then you can say, "I'm out of control," you know. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): People have done that. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You can say to yourself, "I'm out of control. I need to calm down." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): But if you know that you're out of control, you're not completely out of control. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right. That's right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And so, and if so, if you know that you arehave been taken over by anger, you haven't been completely taken over because there's a knowing in the background. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. And I think a lot of parents have experienced this, you know, when your kids do something and it's so upsetting to you, and you know in that moment, "I should not try to discipline them because I'm too angry to discipline them." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That part of you that knows that you're too angry to discipline them is the space that you're talking about. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes, yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. Got that. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And so, and that'sif you don't have that space, then you're completely controlled by the anger. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): You become the anger. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right. That thing that allows you to step back is what you're talking about. I got it. I got it. I got it. That part of you that says, "I can step back and see I'm acting a fool." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And so if you know that you are acting a fool then it's notthere is a sanity there that's observing the insanity. And if you know that you are OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But sometimes people know they're acting a fool, and they just keep on acting a fool. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, that's possible too. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): For a while it can happen that thecertain old behavior patterns still OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But, generally, if you know, you can pull yourself back. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And that which knows is the inner space that you're talking about. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. There was a film A Beautiful Mind some years ago about the scientist. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes, yes, yes. With Russell Crowe. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And so here he became delusional, this scientist; completely absorbed by his mind and had all kinds of delusions. And, at some point in the middle of the film, he suddenly realizes that these are delusions and he realized that he's insane. And also the viewer at that moment realized it. It's so well done because until that point even the viewer doesn't know. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Is not quite sure, yes.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And at that moment the healing begins because with the realization that "I am insane, sanity has arisen." The observing presence is there. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): The observing presence. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And after that he could function again. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Is observing presence and inner space the same thing? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. But observing should not be confused with judging. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I got it. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So there's no judgment. It's a clearit's like a mirror. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It's like a mirror showing you what's there. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So there are literally two dimensions. There is the personality acting out of, you know, form and perceptions and all of that, and then there is the observer of that. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And the observer is not judging what is being observed. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It just is. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): If the observer begins to judge, then it's the mind that has come back in. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It just is. And the observer is timeless. And whatever the observer is observingthe behavior, the thinking is conditioned by the past. So you are bringing the timeless dimension into this world of time.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. And those of you who are reading Dr. Jill Bolte Taylor's book Stroke of Insight, what she said to me todaycause she's been following our classesand she was saying, you know, "What Eckhart calls consciousness, I call right brain." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. Right brain versus left brain. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Left brain is gone; the right brain is the higher consciousness. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, that's right. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So, as I've said before, I love the message boards on Oprah.com, and I saw a posting that I wanted to share with everyone. It's from someone who calls themselves "Student 99." It said, "I've seen many, many posts by concerned Christians." Is Student 99 here? I thought we had him, I heard he was on Skype. Well, I don't mean here here, Dean, I know he's not in the building. Bring out Student 99. So, Student 99, is that you? Student 99: Yeah. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Hi, on Skype. I love this e-mail. I love the fact that you have a face and a body and everything because you just were an entity on the web to me. Posted by Student 99. It says, "I have seen many posts by concerned Christians wondering whether this book is a threat to their faith." And you said, as a Christian, you don't think it is, and here is why. You want to tell us why? Because I thought this was such a beautiful e-mail and you know I've gotten some flack from some Christians. I've even been called the Antichrist, which I'm kind of amused by that for introducing this book to the world. So I was interested in hearing what you had to say. Student 99, whose name is really Alan from Eugene, Oregon. Hi, Alan. ALAN: Hi, Oprah. Hi, Eckhart. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Hello. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You said ALAN: Well, you know
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Go ahead. ALAN: Go ahead. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay, you go ahead. So I'm going to let you tell me what you said in the e-mail. ALAN: Well, basically, you know I observed some people that were posting that were in a lot of distress, and because they felt that the book was an attack on their faith. Many of them had not read the book. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, I love that. ALAN: And so I wanted to just provide a little bit of perspective on that. From my perspective, I felt like Eckhart's book allowed me to do more than just quote what Jesus said, and to actually understand the depth of what he was teaching and be able to practice what he taught rather than just quote what he taught. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, let me read what you said specifically because I thought you said it so beautifully here. "Most Christians understand the concepts from the Bible of surrendering their lives to God and living a loving life and living in the peace that passes understanding. Christians can quote Jesus's sayings, such as 'Be perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect,' or 'Judge not that you be not judged,' or 'You must die to live' or 'Deny yourself, take up your cross and follow me.' Unfortunately, not all Christians have succeeded in following up the talk with the walk. This is because these quotes point to an internal transformation, which some Christians have not yet fully experienced. That is why I strongly recommend this book," you said, Alan. "It provides for very powerful tools for being able to successfully follow Jesus's teachings rather than just quoting them. The book doesn't ask anyone to change their religion of choice, but does help tremendously and successfully applying faith. In a nutshell," you say, Alan, "the book shows how to apply forgiveness to every person and every situation. It shows how to shine the light of awareness on our unconscious hatred of this moment and thereby overcome the cares of this world. If you want to go deeper than knowing about God at the level of thoughts, and experience God at the level of knowing, I welcome you to join us in reading A New Earth. Blessings from Student 99." Isn't that well said, Eckhart? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, oh yes, wonderful. Thank you for saying that. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Alan, thank you for that. ALAN: Sure. And you know, I had left the church, and I ended up being able to return to church because of understanding how to apply the concepts in this book.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Really? Well, that's good. Well, thank you so much. Thank you so much. I don't read all the negative stuff though because it doesn't help me. So I'm only, you know, I'm only interested in speaking to people who want to hear what we have to say, and if you don't agree with what I'm saying, that's really okay. I bless everybody and their path, whatever that is. Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And I've had letters from some priests who've foundand nuns and Buddhist monksand they all, they found the book very helpful. They went more deeply into their own tradition. Because when you go deep enough into your own tradition, eventuallyall traditions eventually you end up in the same place, the same realization. On the surface, the traditions are different. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): There's only one God at the center. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. There is only one God. I believe that. The source of all things; all creation. So Peter is Skyping us from his dining room in Phoenix, Arizona. I love to see where people are. Is that a green diningis that green? PETER: Yes it is. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's my favorite color. My gosh, that's such a lovely color. Peter is Skyping us from his dining room in Phoenix, where he and a group of friends gather every Monday night to watch our live webcast. I think that's so great. I hear you adopted a dog and named it Oprah, is that true? PETER: Come on, Oprah, come on. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Let me see her. PETER: She came to us the first night of the webcast. The system went down, so it crashed, and we had all the people gathered, and she came into my life that night. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Wow. Oh, what a cutie-pie. She's holding up her name. PETER: Oh, she's a (inaudible). OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's so great; that's really great. You say you were addicted to smoking for 30 years but quit 11 weeks ago after reading A New Earth? This ties into your question, correct?
PETER: Exactly. We started our group four weeks before the actual Web class, and we were reading the chapter, number 8. So I applied the techniques to quitting smoking, and with about five minutes' work and about three hours' time, I had completely stopped. No urges, no more cravings, nothing. No will power or anything like that. It was so easy it was amazing. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): What is it that you applied? PETER: Becoming conscious of the feelings. I had run out of cigarettes, and I thought I had to go to the store, but when the craving came, I said, "Okay, let's be with the craving, let's feel it. What does it feel like?" Usually we react. And I actually sat there and closed my eyes and felt it, and it started to dissolve, and it went away. And about two or three hours later, another craving came, and I did the same thing. This time, the feeling went away even faster. And then, finally, when it came back a third time, I put my mind to it, it just completely disappeared. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Wow. PETER: Gone, never came back. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So were you also doing, I think Eckhart suggested in the addiction section, taking deep breaths sometimes when you feel like you need the craving for whether it's cigarettes or food or whatever, to take the three deep breaths and see what happens if the feeling dissipates, did you do that? PETER: Yes I did. I took the breaths to basically create stillness, become calm. So I took long deep breaths and just sort of calmed down and then just started to feel the feelings and watch the thoughts. You know, I've tried to quit, you know, hundreds of times and sometimes a couple months successfully, but there was always willpower involved, and there's always a craving still there that's always, you know, if I just had one. It was always still in the back of my mind. That's no longer there. I can go out with my friends on Friday night, and they can all be smoking, and I won't evenI don't even want to look at one. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): What in the world happened to you? PETER: It was miraculous. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes, that's great. PETER: Yeah. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And have you been able to apply the teachings from the book in other areas of your life? I mean, for myself, I've just found that being able to go back to my breath in the
middle of the day when things get crazier. I mean, something Eckhart said, I think on one of the beginning classes about one complete full breath is a meditation. PETER: Well, that's where the question comes because I do have other issues. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): One conscious breath. One conscious breath is a meditation. PETER: Earlier in the book, in the chapter he talks about going below a thought. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. PETER: And he described my situation exactly like he's here. You talk about, you know, alcohol, using food and TV to go below thoughts or to numb the senses, numb your thoughts, and just sort of go into a trance, if you will. And I do that a lot, and I've been trying to break away from that by using the techniques, and I have not had the same success. And you also say, "Don't make it problem," but I think I've made it a problem. I want to kind of break from that. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So are you asking a question about how to use this more forcefully or whatever? PETER: Yeah. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): For alcohol? PETER: Yeah, with alcohol especially and food. You know, I tend to overeat when I'm tired and I just want to relax. Food, alcohol, TV tend to be the things I use. And that brings you below a thought when you're trying to be above thought. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. PETER: And I try and do that, except I'm not as successful. I get very frustrated. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay, what do you want to say, Eckhart? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Well, it'syour wonderful success story as far as the smoking is concerned and bringingexperiencing how awareness can dissolve old patterns. In some cases instantly, and in other cases it takes more time for awareness to dissolve the old pattern. And awareness has to be brought to the pattern when it arises repeatedly. And it does not mean that every time awareness meets the pattern, that awareness is going to win. Win may not be the right word because awareness, of course, is notnever fighting anything. Awareness is just there as the conscious presence. But so bringing conscious presence, for example, into the urge to have a drinknot that one or two drinks are a problem, but if drinking drags you
down, drags you down to below thinking, then of course it is helpful to bring presence into the urge when it arises in the same way that you did when you felt the urge come upon you to smoke. So have you practiced that? Have you been able to feel the urge to drink and then bring awareness to that and what happened? PETER: Yes I have. And it'sit kind of postpones it. Eventually, I kind of break down. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. I believe I mention in the book that bring awareness to it, and it may well happen that the desire, the urge is still there after 10 minutes of awareness. I believe I mentioned that. It does not mean that you have lost; it means that the desire is very strong. And at that point, perhaps you will have a drink. And when it happens again, you bring awareness to it again. Eventually, something will happen to the pattern. It's very rare to have instant success as you did with smoking. It does happen in some cases. But bring awareness to old patterns, whatever it is, addictive patterns, behavior patterns, bring awareness, and, eventually, they cannot coexist for that long. So it's a continuing practice. But don't expect perfection; don't expect you to be the perfect human being who never touches a drink again or whatever. As I said to Oprah, I enjoy a drink occasionally. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And I said, "Woo-hoo!" So what he's saying, also, and you said this in the beginning, Peter, don't judge it. And as you begin to practice, what I hear you saying is this miracle that you experienced with cigarettes is just that because it rarely happens that you start this one time and it works immediately. What you're saying is, the more you apply the practice of bringing consciousness to this desire or cravingto this craving, that it will gradually lessen. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It will weaken. It will weaken. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes. You can also apply it to other things, like many people are addicted to television. One day without watching TV would be dreadful for them. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So you couldas a practice, like a spiritual practiceyou could say, "One day a week, I'll see what happens if I don't watch television." Don't do it when The Oprah Show is on. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you for that, Eckhart. Thank you for that.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): "One day a week I'll practice," and then observe inside yourself what it feels like, the need to switch on, the need to be entertained, the need to be stimulated, to absorb what's on the screen. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So, one day, practicethank you so much, Peter. Those are friends behind you? PETER: Yes, they're my reading group. CROWD: Hi. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Hi. Peter, move out of the way so we can see them, so we can say hi to everybody. Hi, everybody. CROWD: Hi Oprah, Eckhart. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Hello. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Hi to Peter's group. That's so great there in Phoenix. Yay, guys. Thank you for watching. CROWD: Bye. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you. Thank you, thanks Peter. PETER: Thank you so much. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you so much. And all the best to Oprah, you know. PETER: in good hands. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Oprah is very cute. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Oprah's very cute. Oh, we're talking about the dog. Okay, we've got Eric on the line calling from Copenhagen, Denmark. Eric, what's your question? ERIK: Hi, Oprah. Hi, Eckhart. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Hi.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Hello. ERIK: Hi. My question is in reference to page 224 when Eckhart writes the phrase, "This too shall pass." OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Oh yeah, I love that. ERIK: Yeah, and I feel it's a real powerful phrase that brings a person into the present moment. And it's also used as a slogan in 12-step recovery programs. And when someone's been living very much in the ego and form surrenders and enters a 12-step program, which I did over five years ago, and I currently act as a sponsor for newcomers, am I acting too much in the ego because I'm constantly working these 12 steps and sharing them and your concepts with others? And also, if this is the case, how can I live in consciousness and work a 12-step program with the meetings and sponsorship without the ego being so much at the forefront? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Well, that's a good question. The criterion is whether you, yourself, are still living it on a daily basis. If you are living the truth of it, "this too shall pass" is only a pointer toward a particular state of consciousness that is a state of detachment. Not that you don't care, but it's a state of that you still care deeply, but there's notthere is a detachment from what's happening; an inner sense of freedom in the background. So when you use these tools, for example, a phrase or a pointer, sometimes people who teach these things professionally, after a while they stop practicing themselves. They just use them as a formal thing, and then the ego can come back in. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because you think you know everything. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes. And then you are not living it, you're teaching it, but you are not yourself living it anymore, and that is the question that only you can answer whether you are still living the reality that's beyond this pointer that what the pointer points to. And if you are living it, the ego has not taken over, and you're doing wonderful, very helpful work. I know that the 12-step program has been extremely helpful for many people. I've had many people who have come to spirituality through that. So I'm sure you're doing wonderful work, and continue to be alert and awake so that there's certain amount of selfobservation, just to make sure that you are still there yourselfthat you come from that placeso that the mind doesn't take over. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay, Erik? ERIK: Yeah, that sounds great, thank you very much.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you, Erik. So let's begin, because I think that's one ofa huge part of Chapter 8 and the discovery of inner space. The story that you began with the ancient Sufi story from the Middle East about a king who's continuously torn between happiness and depression. On page 223 you write, "The slightest thing would cause him great upset or provoke an intense reaction, and his happiness would quickly turn into disappointment and despair. A time came when the king got tired of himself and of life, and he began to seek a way out. He sent for a wise man who lived in his kingdom and was reputed to be enlightened. When the wise man came, the king said to him, 'I want to be like you. Can you give me something that will bring balance, serenity, and wisdom into my life? I will pay any price you ask.'" What is that price the king had to pay? What is the price all of us have to pay?" ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Well, first of all, of course, the pricethe king asked, "Well, how much does it cost? How much is it going to cost?" And the wise man said to him, "It is of such value that even your whole kingdom could not pay for it." Now, what that means is that the primary thing in your life is nothing external. What is primary in your life is your inner state of consciousness. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I got that. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And compared to that, you could have the greatest richesif you are in a state of anxiety or fear, negativity, nothing is worth that. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You know, in the Bible and in the church, I don't know if it's in the Bible, but I know in the church we sing this song called, "It Is Well with My Soul." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So unless it is well with your soul, it does not matter what your outward state is, where you're living, how many square feet you have, how many cars, whatever acclaim you have received in the world, unless it is well with your soul or your inner state of being. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Your inner space. Then you're not well. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And so that's thealways to bear that in mind. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): "What isam I at one with life at this moment? What is my inner state that this moment?" Your primary concern in any situation needs to be your inner state. Your secondary concern is the outer situation. Because only when you're in an inner state of rightness, of presence, can you adequately deal with outer situations. So what is the price? There is no price in terms of monetary value. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Anything like that. We could say that the price to pay is that you let go of the false self. That is the price you pay. The false mind-made self. The price to pay is identification with that falseeven, the false I, the false me. And so that's a relatively easy price to pay because it's wonderful to let go of that. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But the wise man gives the king a ring. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And inside the ring, the inscription is? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): "This too shall pass. This too shall pass." And he says, "Whatever situation arises in your life, before you call it good or bad, before you react, before you judge it, touch this ring and remember the inscription that youand 'this too shall pass.'" OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Now I find that to be very helpful, as a matter of fact, when I was going through last year this crisis at my school. That was one of the things I said to myself every day is, "Live in this moment. Let's handle this moment as it comes, and this moment as it comes, and then what comes next I'll handle that moment, and I always knew, 'This too shall pass.'" Works for me very well, and I'm sure a lot of other people. If you're in a difficult stage in your life, you're going through, you know, trauma or divorce or whatever, to know that this too shall pass. But when I'm feeling happy and feeling joyful, I don't want to think, "This too shall pass." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That can actually also be very peaceful. If you know that it is transient, I know that OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But you're having such a good time and then you're thinking, "This too shall pass, so don't get too happy." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): If you don't know that this too shall pass then what can happen? You will cling to the situation internally. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I got it. I got that.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And if you cling to the situation and then it passes, as it will OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): As it will. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Or even if it doesn't pass yet, it might last for a little while, even while you arethe clinging itself means already some fear is coming in. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Oh, I see that. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Through the holding on, you don't want this situation to leave you or you don't want to leave the situation, the clinging meansbrings already up some fear and that means you can't enjoy it as much really. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I just had a great epiphany, not even for myself, but for all the people that I know that arekeyword here is "clinging." So many people do this in relationships. They're holding on to a relationship that has already shown itself to be transient. It's moving on to the next level. And what so many people do, they want to hold on and let it be as it always was. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And it's in the process of passing. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And you should let it pass. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Allowing change to happen and becoming comfortable with change. This is part of "this too shall pass" because we live in this world where things continuously pass away. The Buddhists call it "impermanence." It's one of the deepest truth of the Buddha. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And the problem lies when you expect it to be the same as it always was, and that's where so many people get in trouble with their relationships especially. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And it's an inability to let go, inability to let go of situations, of people. And that eventually brings suffering.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, just recently a friend of mine was telling me about her husband had said to her he wasn't sure he wanted to remain in the relationship. He wasn't sure. And there's, you know, seeking counseling about that. And he's now, you know, sleeping in a different bedroom and all that stuff, and she's trying to hold on and want things to be the way they were and wants to have a baby and all of that. And you would say, "Put that ring on." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Especially don't cling. If you don't cling, so it means there's no fear in the situation. The fear comes through the clinging, through not wanting the change. And so if you approach the situation without fear, then one of two things can happen in a situation like this. There may become a deepening in the relationship. When the relationship hits a crisis, it may be time for the relationship to dissolve, or it may be time for a deepening. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): How do you know the difference? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): When there's no fear, then you will know either it will deepen or it will end. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Wow. Or it will pass on. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): The fear keeps you stuck where you are. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Got it. I got it. So let's see some of the e-mail questions you've been spending during our class. Linda in Tokyo, Japan. "How do I tell the difference between an ego decision or a conscious decision? I'm in a sexless marriage and want to leave. I'm scared. I've been living in the moment for the past eight weeks. My answer is not coming to me." That's what Linda wants to know. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Good. Oh yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "How do I tell the difference between an ego decision and a conscious decision?" ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "I'm in a sexless marriage and I wanted to leave, but I'm scared." You just said it. You just said it there. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And an additional thing here, thesometimes something comes to you"This is what I'm going to do,
your mind says, okay, now I know what I have to do." The question is, where does that realization of what you have to do come from? Does it come from the ego, or does it come from the deeper level of your being? How can I tell the difference? Is a qualitative difference a difference in, one could say, vibrational frequency? OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Correct. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): If it comes from the deeper level of yourself out of the stillness, it's always associated with peace. Peace it's a peaceful realization. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Absolutely. Absolutely. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): If it's agitated or if it's fearful and says, "Now I know what I have to do," or it is angry, agitated, fearful, it comes from the upper levels OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And another thing I would say to Linda in Tokyo, Japan, you're absolutely correct. Another thing, it comes fromif it's coming from inner space that we're talking about in Chapter 8, if it's coming from consciousness or inner space and not your ego, not only will you feel peace, but you won't have to ask 15 people, "Is it the right thing?" ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You will know it's the right thing. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You will know it's the right thing. And I have found that if you are operating from consciousness, your higher consciousness or as we're calling it in this chapter, "inner space," that whether it's buying a pair of shoes or making a life decision, if it comes from the place of inner space, you know the answer. When it's outside yourself, if it's in your ego mind, you have to ask the store clerk, you have to ask your friends, you have to ask everybody, "What do you think, what do you think, what do you think of these shoes, what do you think, what do you think," you know? But when you arewhen it's well with your soul, the answer's clear. That's how you know. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Quiet, peaceful certainty. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Powerful, quiet, peaceful. You know what you have to do. You know what's right for you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's like the other day I had to cancel an engagement, and I was saying I never cancel things, but after I canceled, I felt such a calm, and I knew that that was the right decision. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Although it might be upsetting to other people, I felt such a calmness about it, and that is true for anybody who is making a decision. When you make the right decision, you feel a calmness and a peace about it. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And that also relationships, leaving a relationship, if it comes from the right place, you leave, but you're peaceful. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You're not afraid. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You're not afraid. You still could be sad about it though. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes. Sadness can happen. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You can be sad about it and disappointed about it. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): The interesting thing about sadness isor sadness, of course, also arises when somebody passes away, close to you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): There can be sadness, and if there's acceptance, thenbecause death is one of the prime examples of everything passing away. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Before life form passes away, everybodyif you live with a partner, either your partner will leave you or you will leave sooner or later through death. So that's the allowing change to happen. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Allowing change to happen. And you say the key to understanding "this too will pass," at the top of page 225, is knowing that "nonresistance, not resisting, nonjudgment, and nonattachment are the three aspects of true freedom and enlightened living." Hard to be nonresistant, nonjudgmental and nonattached when it's your husband who says, "I no longer want to be in this relationship." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes. And there'sif you share a great deal of past with another personit could also be family member or parentthen sometimes harder to be present when there's a huge amount of past in the relationship. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I got that. But, "Once you see and accept the transience of all things," page 225, "and the inevitability of change, you can enjoy the pleasures of the world while they last without fear of loss or anxiety about the future." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I thought that was so brilliant the way you did that. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That's the beautiful thing about being able to enjoy the things of this world knowing that nothing is going to last. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Nothing's going to last. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And you can actually enjoy it more deeply now without the fear that it might finish. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because it is going to finish. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It is going to finish. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And then something else will take its place. It's continuous coming and going.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I got that. Tonight we're Skyping again with a study group in Los Angeles who've gathered at the Bodhi Tree bookstore. It's a landmark in West Hollywood. Hi, everybody at the Bodhi Tree. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Hi. CROWD: Hi. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Oh gosh, there's our Bodhi followers. Nick has a question about finding his purpose, and I know it's something that's been on the minds of quite a few of our students. Hello, Nick, let's hear it. NICK: Hey, Oprah, what's up? OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Hey, everything's up. NICK: My question is basically, well, you have to worry about a lot of stuff in life, you have to go to work, you have to pay your bill. Your cell phone bill works in the now, but if you don't work today, it's not going to work a month from today. So how do you live in the now and still worry about your IRAs, investing in your future, what you're going to do as far as, you know, money paying your bills, doing what you have to do, you know, in this ego-centered world, especially in Los Angeles. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So what you're saying is NICK: I guess this is my question. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): How does becoming who we are trulywhat if becoming who we were truly meant to be really isn't financially practical, is what you're asking, right? NICK: Yeah, what if I wanted to go on a mountain somewhere, just become who I was. I eventually would, I guess, starve or freeze. But, I mean, you know, how do you integrate this in your everyday life? Sort of being in the now, being the essence of who you are without suffering in the long run? Without, you know, the squirrel would sufferthe squirrel would die if it didn't put away nuts for the future, so ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Okay. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, I had seen a question that you had sent earlier, Nick, where you said, "It's all fine and dandy to read about becoming who you truly are and being who you were meant to be, but how do we do that and still pay all of our bills?
NICK: Right, right. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, okay. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Okay, thank you, thank you, good question. However, the questionthe first few words of your question already contained an error. And it's easy, if an error keeps into a question, then it's hard to answer it truly. The error was, you said, "We have to worry about paying our bills and all kinds of things." Is that true? No. You have to pay your bills, but you don't have to worry about paying your bills. And the squirrel has to put away the nuts, but the squirrel is not worried about the nuts. Only humans are worried about their nuts. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): You canbeing present with what you do does not mean that you neglect your daily affairs, and so on. It means you deal with them in a different and, in fact, more powerful and more effective way. You give up the worrying partyou still pay your billsbut you let go of the worrying about paying your bills. In that way you learn from the squirrel how to live. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because worrying is your choice. You see that, don't you, Nick? Worrying is your choice. NICK: You know what? At timesat times when I don't worryI've had moments in my life where I didn'twhere I just kind of let the waves of the world roll over me, and I kind of did nothing about situations and hoped that they would work out themselves. And they didn't. I mean, worrying did help me in the past actually get things together and get my life on track. I guess to befor me in my life to be in the essence, to be with my spiritual self, it's not enough. I have to really be actively worried about the actual day-to day-business of surviving. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Well NICK: You know, which most people have to do, you know. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): I would still argue with that. It is true that you need to take action. It is not true that you need to worry in order to be able to take action. So you can actually experiment with, in your daily life, start with little situations. Let's say there's a pile of bills that you have to pay, how do you approach these bills? Are you going to worry the night before or on the day? "Am I going to be able to pay?" You just take one bill after another, you look at it, you phrase it, "Okay, do I have the money in my bank account or not? If you don't have the money in my bank account, I have to do something to make more money. What
can I do now?" Put that aside. "Look, this action I can take: pick up the phone, make a phone call." Present, effective, powerful, but no worry. If youthen you will see allyour whole life will become not only more effective and more powerful but also much easier. It flows with greater ease. Nothing in nature is worried. All the animals do what they have to do, but they don't have to worry about it. They are active. Everything is active in nature: The trees are active, the grass, the flowers; everything is active and putting out energy. It's only the humans that worry about it and think they need worry in order to survive in this world. You don't need worry; you need action, but not worry. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, that's an interesting point if you've ever been on safari or seen animals on a hunt or actually seen a kill, you know, they go out in search of, and weeverybody, I'm sure, watched the Planetyou watched the Planet Earth series, right, Nick? Where you see the animals? NICK: No. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Oh, Nick, you got to get Planet Earth. NICK: No, but you know what? That what he was sayingI'm sorry. What he was saying reminds me of OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Nick, you got to get the Planet Earth. And you get to see all these animals hunting other animals and I justit just made me think of what you're saying, as the animal's hunting the other animal, it's just doing it, it's not worrying, "I hope I find a rabbit today. I hope I find a rabbit today." Yeah. NICK: Right. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Go ahead, Nick, go ahead. You want to continue, yeah. NICK: I was going to say thatthat reminds me of the Lily of the Valley that just doesn't worry about closing itself in the Bible, it just does. It just exists. It worriesthe sparrow or the crow doesn't worry how it's going to get its next meal, it just does. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. NICK: And that reminds of that right there. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. NICK: But I'm thinkingI guess I'm thinking of those hippies in India that still haven't come back. They're just broke and they took all their idealism there.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Nick is saying that'sNick is saying, "Well, that's really good for that Bible stuff and for the Lilies of the Valley, but listen, I'm living in L.A. and I got to worry about this." Is there anybody else there at the Bodhi Tree behind you thatis there anybody that disagrees with Nick, that has, you know, similar issues and you're not worried about it, you've been able to apply. Come up to the microphone here. Let's getcome on up there. Hi. JESSICA: Hi, how are you? OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Hi, you are? Hi, who are you? JESSICA: I'm Jessica. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Oh, hi, Jessica. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Hi. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So what do you want to say about what we've been talking about? JESSICA: You know, there'sit's on page 238 and it's about becoming one with the situation. And that the solution arises out of that. And I've always kind of been more of a take-action person first and then deal with the inner peace and all that later. But I was wondering, how do you deal with things like that in relationships and things like weight management and all of those issues? Do you just become still and just hope for an answer to come or do you still actively seek one out? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So what you're referring to is on this page, it says, you don't react. What I'm saying there is you don't react against a situation when a situation arises that OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You merge with it. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. You'll become OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And the solution arises out of the situation. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Now, this should not be confused with becoming inactive or just sitting there and looking and not doing anything. What it means is there's no inner resistance to that arising situation. Sometimes things happen when you have a project, you have some work to do and something happens tosome obstacle arises in what you want to do, a person, a situation arises. And so, for many people, as soon as an obstacle arises, they become resistant, and they go into a negative state and try to fight the obstacle.
They are fighting the obstacle rather than accepting the moment as it is internally and say, "Oh, the situation has changed." OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): We talked about change. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Situations change continuously, and the world does not necessarily do what it wants you to do, what you want it to do. So you face a situation, and any change that happens is immediately accepted inside, and through the acceptance, you respond to the situation. So you're not accusing, you're not making wrong, you're not complaining about the situation to yourself and others. So many people burn up a huge amount of energy, uselessly, that they could use to deal with the situation, but they burn up a huge amount of energy complaining in their heads and to others about what has happened. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Instead of looking at what has happened and saying, "Oh, this is how it is, what can I do now?" A moment of stillness and then action happens. No complaining, no resisting, no fighting against, not making a person or situation into an enemy that, again, burns up a lot of useless energy and brings up a lot of energy that is going to sabotage what you want to do. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So, again, you say, "When instead of reacting against the situation, you merge with it; the solution arises out of the situation itself. Actually, it's not you, the person, who is looking and listening, but the alert stillness itself" or the inner space. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): When I say the solution arises out of the situation, it does not mean that you don't do anything. In some cases it is you who is going to take the action, but it will come out of a powerful place of being one with the situation. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I think, too, Jessica, ask Nick to come back to the microphone. Thanks, Jessica. Nick, come back up here, we're not through with you. I think, too, I think you really represent a whole lot of peopleparticularly young peoplewho have said to me personally or have e-mailed and think that being in alignment with who you are truly meant to be and awakening to your purpose is some kind ofisrepresents passivity that you're just sort of sitting around just, you know, waiting on a woo-woo moment and not really doing anything. The real purpose of this entire book and the work of spirituality is to get you, to get us, to align our personalities with our soul or higher
consciousness so that the work that you do in the world comes from the place of the higher consciousness, and you use your ego or personality to serve that. You allow your personality to serve the calling of consciousness that has put you here on the earth in the first place. And when you do that, everything has a flow to it. You're in the right job; it gives you the right amount of money for you at any given time because you are in alignment, so you're not worrying about things because you're not living beyond your means. You're not stressing about things because you're not allowing your ego to determine and define who you are in the world. So you're not acting out of an external self, but acting out of place of inner space or consciousness, so everything is in alignment. And that's not passive, that's not woo-woo-woo. I can't pay my bills untillet me find myself later. That is aligning your personality with the higher consciousness so that you're higher consciousness, you operate from a place of being and the inner space is directing and guiding your life and not the outer space. You get it? NICK: Yeah, I do. Sorry if I made you mad, Oprah. But I do, that's wonderful. Thank you so much. It's a pleasure to be here. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): No, I'm not mad, but I justI hear thisI hear this a lot. I mean, earlier today my stylist was saying, "Well, what about my passion? What about my passion? Do you want me to just give up my passion?" No, this isn't about giving up your passion; it's about feeling your passion more deeply. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And being in alignment with that. NICK: How do you know what you want, or your passion is, isn't just ego-driven? What if I just wanted to be like, I don't know, a rock star and that's completely ego-driven and that didn't help the world in any way, but if I kept on working toward it, it would justit would just not be serving anyone but myself, what if my passion is wrong, you know? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): If it's wrong NICK: Sorry, too many questions. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No, it's fine. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): No, go ahead, go ahead. Eckhart, answer that. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Sometimes, you may know until you have achieved what you wanted to achieve, whether it was ego or
not. When you get what you wanted to achieve and very soon you find it does not satisfy you, then it was the ego. So you canit's a learning process. Nobody's saying you shouldn't try to achieve this or that. If the impulse is there to have this or that, do it, and see what happens. If it doesn't satisfy you, it's the ego. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And the greatest rock stars are those who are rock stars because they sing or they perform because they had to. And whether they were performing to, you know, grand crowds or in their garage space to just their family members, they sing because they have to. The greatest dancers are those who dance because they have to and they become rock stars or dancing stars because that is coming from such a pure place of passion. And that's what the world feels because those are the people who last. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): The people who are operating from the passionate true space. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And not just doing it because they want to make the money or because of the ego self. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's what I think. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Very good. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But it was nice talking to you, Nick. NICK: Thank you. Sorry it took so long, but it was a pleasure to be here. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thanks, everybody at the Bodhi Tree. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Thank you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Jessica, Nick and all our Bodhi buddies there. Okay, now we have an email from Sumaya in Bethlehem who wanted to say, "I live under military occupation. I've witnessed the demolishing of my home, and I do not know to apply your theories when the outside is so out of my control. How can I be at peace when there are soldiers outside my door?" There's a question for you.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That is, of course, the experience of many people in this world. If you look what's happening in this world, people are confronted with violence all the time, with loss. They lose their homes; they lose family members. Is it possible here to enter a state of surrender? Is it possible to accept the seemingly unacceptable? And, for some people, it has been possible. I know it is possible to accept what seems unacceptable. And if you accept the unacceptable, you will go very deep very quickly. And what otherwise would take many years of realization to realize, it will take you to a very deep point if you accept somethinga great loss in your life. In prison. I continuously get letters from people in prison now. This is unacceptable, some prisons are dreadful places. And some people there live in agony and suffering and anger and resentment. And some, a minority, a few have realized that they can live in a state of inner surrender, which is not negative. It's a complete acceptance that this is as it is right now. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because they are in nonresistance, nonjudgment and nonattachment? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Becauseand you accept it because why should you accept it? Because it is at this moment. It is. So no matter what it is, accepting the is-ness of this moment brings you to a place of inner freedom and also a place of power. You have to go, in order to accept the unacceptable, you have to go really very deep and saybring a very deep yes to this moment. An uncompromising yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I think that a lot of people have trouble with the word "accepting it" because "accepting" says to people, "I must then also condone it." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): What you're saying is stopby your term "accept" you mean don't deny that it's happening. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): As you resist it, if you continue to resist it, the example you used earlier in our classes is you're in the mud, you're stuck in the mud, the wheels are in the mud, you must first accept that "I'm stuck in the mud" before you get yourself out of the mud. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You can't seep saying, "I'm not in the mud." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No, or you and you don't say, "I shouldn't be, why does this happen to me?"
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "I can't believe I'm in the" ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And then all the energy goes into complaining and into the resistance. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Correct. Got it, got it. Kristina lives in Toronto, Canada, and Skyping us from her family room. Kristina, your question? Hello. KRISTINA: Hi, Oprah. Hi, Eckhart. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Hi. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Hi. KRISTINA: I have been afraid to drive for 16 years now. I was in a serious car accident, and it has stopped me from, you know, being responsible in my family life. My husband has so much burden. He has to take our kids to their activities and so forth, take time off of work to take them to doctor's appointments. So my questionbut just recently from reading A New Earth, I've started to drive, so yay. But my question is, how do I remain in the inner spaciousness that you speak about on page 238 so that I can stay behind the wheelI mean things are going well right now, but if that fear comes creeping back, how do I handle it? OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I don't know if I want you behind the wheel if I'm on the road and you're trying to do that. KRISTINA: Oh, but don't say that. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): No, okay. Okay. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No, thefirst you're now able to drive, that's wonderful. The old fear is gone but now a new fear has arisen, and that fear is about whether the fear's going to come back or not. And so that is often the casepeople develop a fear about a fear. "Am I going to be in fear again?" The mind tends to do that kind of thing because it projects itself into the future and says, "Am I going to remain fearless, or is the fear going to come back?" So realize that that is your mind trying to figure something out and thereby creating a new level of fear on top of the original fear that has already dissolved. So trust that it's not going to come back, but something you can do to help it is to actually consciously enjoy the driving, and enjoy sitting in the car, enjoy sitting at the traffic light, enjoy the driving itself. I enjoy driving. It's a very peaceful thing to do for me. So, and be comfortable with being in the car. What I used to do often and don't do it so much anymore, I would get into my car and drive out to some lonely place and sit in the car and meditate or write. I liked being in the car. So use the enjoyment. The more you find
the enjoyment, the less likely the fear's going to come back. So seek the enjoyment ofit has to do with enjoying the present moment, the driving itself, the movement and so on. And don't go into your mind, don't follow up that thought when it says, "Is it going to last? Is this state of being without fear going to last?" OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Just stay in the moment. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Stay in the moment. The more you're in the moment; the less likely fear is going to come back. It can't really come back when you are in the now. It's only when you leave the now, then it will come back. Either you go into the past and you remember something that happened in the past. You've left the now, or you go into the future and say, "Am I going to have fear again at some point?" So the more you stay in the now, the more you're keeping out fear. Fear comes through past or future. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you. KRISTINA: Thank you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you so much. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Thank you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay, Yvonne. Okay, hi. YVONNE: Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): What's your question? I like this question. YVONNE: It's about "this too shall pass." And the quote about it, and I forget the quote (inaudible). How do you be a voice for change in the planet where things are going wrong and still will be present in the stillness and create the action without being taken down by all the horrendous things that are happening? It seems to me like a paradox; to be present and then to work for change in the future. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. You said, "How can I be a voice for planetary change and really say I don't mind what happens because there's so much" YVONNE: (inaudible) crazy stuff. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So much crazy stuff is going on in the world, how can you just say YVONNE: How can you not mind animal abuse?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right, not mind animal abuse, not mind all the violence going on in the world and just saying, "This too shall pass." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): First, of course, the English language has two expressions that are related and yet very different. Sometimes, "I don't mind" is interpreted by people as meaning "I don't care." "I don't care" and "I don't mind" are very different. "I don't mind" does not mean that you don't care. It means there is a space of freedom inside you, and that is a peaceful place. And unless you are rooted in that peaceful place within, you cannot ultimately be an agent for true positive change in this world. Your state of consciousness is what transmits itself through whatever you do. Your state of consciousness is primary. And only if your state of consciousness is at peace, can whatever you do reflect that. And you can be a bringer of peace into this violent and insane world, and you can then, through whatever you do externally, can bring sanity into this logic-insane world. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Whether it's about that particular thing you're concerned about or not, because if you are in a state of consciousness where you are at peace, everything that you do in the world will bring peace to the world. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And that's how you change the world. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And everything you will doyou do will be much more empowered, it will be empowered by that consciousness rather than coming from antagonism, coming from thinking, "I have to fight these people, making situations of people into enemies." That's all the old consciousness. You cannot change this world through the old consciousness or applying the structures and the ways of the old consciousness. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, one of the things you shared with us earlier, what he was saying, Yvonne, in one of the early classes is that you cannot make change by fighting against anything. And a surefire way of knowing that something is going to fail is when you say, "It's the war against" ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "The war against" anything cannot win. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So you cannot fight it, it does not mean that you cannot take action. You can take powerful action, but it comes out of that basic place of inner peace. People don't realizemany people don't realize yet that
very powerful action comes out of the place of inner peace. They believe they need to be agitated to bring about change. YVONNE: Coming from inner peace, motivate other people to sort of mind what's going on so that they might do things differently in their lives that impact the planet as a whole, that's the thing that kind of worries me. That the concept can give people apathy and, like, "Oh, I'm going to throw my cigarette on the ground and it's going to go into the ocean, and I don't mind what happens." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No, that's not it. You see the consequences of any action, if you're present, then you will not do unconscious things that actually produce suffering. It's only when you are not present that you will produce suffering in one form or another. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Got that. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): When you're present, you do not generate suffering for yourself or others. It's the only place from where you don't generate suffering. And then already, you are already at the beginning of the change of the world. And then it doesn't matter what you do, you may just disseminate information, but the information aboutto make people aware of certain things, some people have very important things to do. And the way in which you disseminate the information will also be empowered by your state of consciousness. It will not make others wrongother people wrongand thereby produce a reaction and then you're trapped in the same old thing. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You've experienced that, right, Yvonne? You've been on the street and somebody's trying to hand out something. And if it's a person who is really agitated or you can feel or sense their anger and agitation, you don't want to take the pamphlet. But if the person hands it to you or whatever it is with a sense of calm or peace, then you're more inclined to want to even engage with them. YVONNE: I've experienced that as myself, like, 15 years ago being the staunch environmentalist and telling people what to do, and, of course, watching them do the opposite. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. YVONNE: And inspiring the exact opposite that I wanted. So I've worked the last 10 years since The Power of Now to be present, but in order to do that I had to, like, stop looking at the atrocities of the world. And now I'm ready to come back and I want to keep the spiritual side, but at the same time, not let the world get me down but be able to do something and be a part of positive change. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, that's your challenge now.
YVONNE: I appreciate this (inaudible). ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Your challenge now and your spiritual practice now is to balance the two so that you can be active and bring about change in the world without losing your rootedness in being and your presence. So that's a balancing, a balancing act. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And that's what you have to do now. YVONNE: Thank you for sharing how to do it OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you. YVONNE: I'm learning slowly what you just said about accepting the acceptance, the deep acceptance of the world as it is, that hit me, finally. I'm starting to understand it in depth. And not the accept of it's okay. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. YVONNE: Just that itthis is happening. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That it is happening. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes, and that the angrier, more upset you get about it, it's still happening. YVONNE: Oh yeah, yeah. That doesn't serve anything. I get that, but then how do you keep going? ButI'mslow process. There's two more weeks, two more chapters. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thanks, yeah. Inner purpose is going to help that a lot. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you. Tell Nick to be sure to show up for inner purpose, I've got a few things to say to him. Thanks, everybody. Natalie lives in Australia but is on holiday with her family and is Skyping us from her friend's kitchen in England. Hi, Natalie.
NATALIE: Hi, Oprah. Hi, Eckhart. How are you? OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): We're both well, thank you. NATALIE: This is so exciting for me. On page 239 in your book, you say that some people feel more alive when they travel and visit unfamiliar places or foreign countries because those times sense perception, experiencing, takes up more of the consciousness than thinking. Since the class on the third chapter, I've been sharing an amazing holiday with my family and our friends through Europe. I've been able to enjoy my holiday so much more by practicing the teachings that I've read about in the book and the things I've learned from the class. But my life back home is not like my holiday, it's really busy. I've got a job and three children, and my husband has his own business. And on reflection, I think I've filled up any free time I've had so that I wasn't aligned with that constant noise in my head. I feel really great at the moment, and I want to feel the same when I go home. So my question is, how do I transition between this wonderful holiday and go back to my normal life at home? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Okay. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's a good question. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes, thank you. Yes, it's a good question. The everyday-ness of many people's lives can really pull you into a place of unconsciousness because of the repetitiveness of one's life. So it's up to you when you get home to bring, to invite a different state of consciousness as much as possible into your daily life. Into the daily routine of your life, invite a state of presence. When you are engaged in things that you do every day repetitively, things that usually are a means to an end, driving the kids to school, going, doing the shopping, doingyou can see how many things are a means to an end in one's daily existence. And that's not a very powerful way to live when almost everything you do in your daily existence is a means to some end because you have to do this and you have to do that. So bring in presence where, instead of treating whatever you do as a means to an end, as much as possible, make it into an end in itself. For example, when you are driving from here to there, be absolutely present every moment. Look around. Be alert as if you were seeing things for the first time, the trees, the people, the traffic. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And you do that by not labeling things. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Not labeling mentally what you are experiencing. Be there as a conscious presence when you're doing shopping at the supermarket. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Perceiving without naming is what it's called.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Perceiving without naming. Be there with every step, look at the things around you, "What do I need to get?" To be conscious of every movement, of everything around you, so that it's not an everyday thing. It's that everything that you do is happening just now. It's not a repetition. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And I promise you, if you start to do this in your everyday life, what he says on page 252, "As much as possible in everyday life, use awareness of the inner body to create space. When waiting, when listening to someone, when pausing to look at the sky," all on page 252, "a tree, a flower your partner, or child, feel the aliveness within at the same time. This means part of your attention or consciousness remains formless, and the rest is available for the outer world of form. Whenever you "inhabit" your body in this way it serves as an anchor for staying present in the Now. It prevents you from losing yourself in thinking, in emotions, or external situations." When you really get that, what he's saying on page 252, Natalie, everything around you takes on a magical quality. I can really testify to that, that just doing routine things becomes almost like you have wow moments doing the smallest things, you know. Washing the NATALIE: I've been feeling thatI've been feeling that at the moment because we've been seeing so many amazing things and meeting so many different people and being in places where they speak different languages. But I know at home, what I dowhen I'm doing something, I'm thinking about the next thing that I'm going to be doing. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): The next thing. NATALIE: So I really need toI can really take that on. Thank you so much. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): What I would like to say to you and everybody else, when you start to put this into practice, and I've been doing it myself during the past eight weeks. When you start to actually put it into practice, everything is amazing. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Everything starts to be amazing. The fact that you're breathing in and out of your lungs starts to be amazing. That's what the now does. It brings you to a level of consciousness and presence so just being is amazing. And you don't have to leave home to experience that. Isn't that the key, isn't it? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, that's the key, yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): What is on the back board? I thought I saw my name there when there was a wide shot there. Does that say "Oprah?"
NATALIE: Thanks from my daughter. That's from my Georgie. She's asleep because it's about 3 a.m. She wanted to say hi, so that's her "Hi, Oprah." OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Hi, Georgie. Thank you. Thank you very much, Natalie. NATALIE: Bye, thank you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you. What Natalie was talking about is the whole point of awakening to your life's purpose, and next week we're going to be talking about inner purpose, which is what I was trying to say to Nick, maybe too stridently. Those happened a couple times where I'm, like, saying to Gayle, Gayle will say, "I don't understand," and I will go, "Well, the reason is" ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Well, Nick represents about 50 million other people who are the same. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right, who are feeling that, "Well, listen, I got to make money. I got to make money." But what we're going to be talking about next week, Nick, is when you align the inner purpose and let the inner purpose determine what your outer actions are, then you're not worried. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That's right. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You never worry. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): No matter how much money you're making, you're not worried because you're on purpose with your life. You're on purpose with your life. Yeah, well, you know, I think a lot of people feel like this is all kind ofsometimes they feel like this is ooey-gooey stuff, and yes, and "I'll get spiritual, but let me make some money first. I want to be spiritual and all that, but I got to make some money first." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yeah, that's actually in the New Testament where he says, "Let me first do this"they're invited into the kingdom of heaven. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And say, "Oh, let me first do this." There's another, wait, has another excuse, "Let me first do this first. I have to do this."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): "Then I'll be ready." Of course, it never happens. The then never comes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So there is Barbara in Shanghai, China, who writes, "I find it really difficult to be the observer of a challenging work environment, especially when I'm frustrated with employees and have to discipline my staff. What are some of the practical steps I can take to overcome the situation?" ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Well, there you use whatever the practical things that are described in the book. Consciousone or two conscious breaths as often as possible. Getting in touch with the feeling of the inner body, the aliveness of the inner body while you are listening to people especially. Then already a different energy is there. You are listening from a different state of consciousness when you are in touch with the inner body while you listen. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And a lot of thingsthe person who is running an office or whatever our questioner does, they probably have to deal with many people every day, which involves listening to people in addition to, of course, speaking to people. So be there as thefeel the aliveness within as you listen. As much as possible, take conscious breaths while you are engaged in things. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Bringing spaces, little spaces into your daily existence. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Gaps. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Little gaps. That is more important than doing. It's wonderful to do a meditation at the end of the day. But bringing little gaps into your everyday activities is even more important. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I love where you talk about on page 232 and 233. You tell people to "avoid watching television programs and commercials that assault you with a rapid succession of images that change every two or three seconds. Rather than watching at random, choose the programs you want to see. Whenever you remember to do so, feel the aliveness also inside your body as you watch. Alternatively, be aware of your breathing from time to time. Look away from the screen at regular intervals so it doesn't completely take possession of your visual sense." We just did a show
the other day and this momit was a show about giving up what you could be willing to live without. This family was going to give up their computers, or they did give up their computers and their television for a week. And their little 5-year-old boy was crying because he had to give up the computer. His mom walked in the room, stood behind him, was behind him, called his name, and he still couldn't, he couldn't hear her because he was so mesmerized by the video game he was playing. What are we doing to ourselves and more importantly, to our children through the video games, the television? Which is a form of like hypnosis almost. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): For people. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes. And it pulls your attention out of the body. It's like leaking, an energy leakage, especially for young children. The energy gets drawn out very easily. So it's continuous energy leakage, and they cannot focus because of the rapidly changing images on TV screen in many programs, the ability to have a prolonged focus on something is greatly diminished. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, I thought that. That's why we have so many children with ADD because they've grown up in a world where there's 30 seconds, 30 seconds and 30 seconds. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. That means the quality of your life is also diminished because the quality of your life very much depends on the degree of your attention. Attention is quality. So if you cannot give attention to anything for very long, that diminishes the quality of your life and what you can do. So parents need to be careful with their children. I'm not saying remove all these things immediately from your children because they are addictive, but very gently don'treduce the amount of time they spend with video games, and reduce gently the amount of time spent watching television. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because they cause you, as you say, "So when watching television, the tendency is for you to fall below thought, not rise above it. Television has this in common with alcohol and certain other drugs. While it provides some relief from your mind, you again pay a high price: loss of consciousness." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And here we have OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's what it's designed to do, isn't it, for the most part? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, here we have
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Our show, though, is designed to make you more conscious, I will have to say that. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): I know that. When I wrote, there somewhere there are some television shows that have been helpful to many people and have raised people's consciousness, it says that somewhere in the book. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It does. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): I saw you in my mental in my mind. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Really? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yeah. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you. You could have just said, "The Oprah Show." I saw you wrote that there are some television showsyou could have just put in parenthesis, "The Oprah Show, for example. Yes. Yeah, but for the most part, television is designed to numb us out. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And here we have the interesting concept of arising above thinking and falling below thinking. So what we are engaged in herenow, most people are at the thinking level. They are controlled by their mind; they are identified with their mind. This work that we are doing here, if you can call it work, it's not work really, is rising above thinking. Being present means you've risen above thinking. You are fully conscious, but there's little or no thought activity. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Can you tell me why you say on page 233, "Make sure you don't go to sleep immediately after switching off the set or, even worse, fall asleep with the set still on." I know my friend Gayle sometimes is watching TV, and she goes, "I don't know if I was watching or my feet were watching" because she goes asleep with the TV on. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So then the, all the turmoil that you've just been watching and you've just spent a significant amount of time below thought in a state of unawareness and unconsciousness, and if you go fromthat will affect the quality of your sleep. And you will notice also when you wake up in the morning you won't be as refreshed. It's vital to go into sleep from a place of consciousness rather than unconsciousness. Then the quality of your sleep will be much better, and you will wake up feeling renewed. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I notice that. See, I don't watch television before going to bed, I hardly watch television at all, but I notice that if I meditate before going to sleep, I have a better sleep.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And what I recommend to people is as they lie in bed ready to go to sleep, lie on your back, flat on your back, and bring attention, scan your body with your attention from your feet to your head, your hands, your arms. And then feel the internal aliveness of the body as you lie there. You lie in the energy field of your body. That means there's also very little or no thinking going on because the attention moves into the body. And there, from there, you go to sleep. Hold that for five, 10 minutes, it's a very pleasant way of saying goodbye to that day and of going into sleep. It feels very much alive. It's joyful actually, to lie there in that energy field. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And that energy field that you're talking about is exactly what this whole chapter is about, is the energy field of inner space. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Go inside the body and allow yourself to be the observer of the body. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And then you connect with the energy. You merge with the energy field. And, of course, the body is mostly empty space. 99.999 percent empty space. Physicists tell us the space between the molecules, the atoms that make up the body, the spaces in between the atom is so vast that your body is 99.999 percent empty space. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's a lot for my brain to take in right now. But I do want to thank you for joining us. This eighth class will be available on demand tomorrow for free here at Oprah.com. And if you want to download or watch any of our classes, you can do that tomorrow also at Oprah.com and iTunes. It's free because of the generous support of Nature Made Softgel Vitamins. This week, you can update your workbook, get ready for our next class, Chapter 9. We're coming to the end. Your inner purpose. Your inner purpose for all of you who read this book, looking for your inner purpose, this is what it's all about, people. Thank you. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Thank you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): For bringing us into inner space. Next week is inner purpose. And as I saying to Nick earlier, inner purpose, when it defines what you do in the world, puts you in alignment, and all things come. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): As they should.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And then comes the alignment of inner purpose and outer purpose. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Oh that's it. Thanks everybody, goodnight. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Goodnight. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Let's do our high five. We almost didn't do it last week, and people complained. Bye, everybody. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Bye.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. Hi, everybody. Welcome to class number nine of our New Earth Web series. We are here with author Eckhart Tolle. Number ninewe're counting down. We're down to the last two chapters of our book, and it is my most sincere hope that all of our classes so far have been leading you to find more purpose and enjoy in your own lives. And tonight's class, tonight's lesson is really about bringing clarity to finding your inner purpose. So I think this is my most exciting chapter of all. I know I say that every chapter. I didn't say that after last chapter, and I'll tell you why in a few moments, but before we begin the class, I'm going to let you lead us in our moments of silence, or moment of silence today. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Good. So we are already familiar with the silence that you start with. And this time I would like to use a very short, very powerful line from the Old Testament. And I believe that this will be especially helpful for those Christians who are not quite comfortable with silence, and feel that somehow silence is not compatible with Christianity or Christian teachings, which is not the case at all. Perhaps it has been overlooked in the past couple centuries in Christianity, but it is certainly compatible. And so this is one of my favorite lines from the Old Testament, and that can take us very powerfully into stillness. And this line is: "Be still and know that I am God." Meaning, God is found precisely in that inner stillness; through the realm of inner stillness that you can reach what we call God, but which nobody can understand through the mind. It's the mystery. The mystery which you cannot really explain or name, which we call God, is the depth of that. We touch that when we go into stillness. So this beautiful line points to that inner experience. So I'll say it again, and when I've said it, you just become still for a moment. "Be still and know that I am God." OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I love that. That's one of my favorite Bible passages. That and "Lead me to the rock that is higher than I." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, todaytonightwe're discussing Chapter 9, your inner purpose. Finding your purposes is what I believe we're all put on the planet to do. So many people spend their lives trying to figure out, "What job, what job to do, what to do, what to do, what to do?" I think when you figure out what your purpose is and you align the outer purpose with the inner purpose, then the job really doesn't matter, right? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Very true. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's the essence of what you're saying in this chapter. Let us begin, page 257. "As soon as you arise above mere survival, the question of meaning and purpose becomes of
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paramount importance in your life. Many people feel caught up in the routines of daily living," you say, "that seem to deprive their life of significance. Some believe life is passing them by or has passed them by already. Others feel severely restricted by the demands of their job and supporting a family. ... Some are consumed by stress lost in frantic doing. Many people long for the freedom and expansion that prosperity promises. Others already enjoy the freedom that comes with prosperity and discover that even that is not enough to endow their lives with meaning. There is no substitute for finding true purpose." So how do we do it? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Now, what you just read basically, of course, means that many people spend their lives in a state of almost permanent dissatisfaction. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Unfortunately. So they may be looking for some purpose, or they may have given up hope that there is some purpose for them, and they're just surviving or making a living. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Or caught up in the doing. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Caught up in the doing, in the stress of it. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And so, usually, when we talk about purpose, when people talk about purpose, they think of purpose in terms of future. "Where am I going, what am I supposed to do, what's the direction I'm going in, what is my goal, the goal I want to achieve?" And that, of course, is there, it has its place, but I call that the outer purpose. More fundamental than the outer purpose is what people usually overlook, and that is the realization that what matters most is finding your inner purpose. Now, to most people that initially doesn't mean anything, inner purpose. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And this is why I explain it briefly in the dialogue that is there in that chapter where somebody asks about, "I want to know what my purpose is," and I tell that person, "Your purpose is to be here at this moment and asking that question because this is where you are." OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So inner purpose is aligning your life fully with the present moment. So that you are no longer out of alignment with the present moment, which leads to the state of dissatisfaction that we talked about that is the reality for many people. So you have to go, first of all, beyond the state of dissatisfaction that is so many people's reality. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): But you cannot go beyond the state of dissatisfaction through some future goal that says, "One day I would like to be in a state of fulfillment or satisfaction." No. You have to enter the state of fulfillment and satisfaction by becoming one internally with the present moment. And your purpose thenyour inner purposeis that alignment with where you are right now, to be totally where you are and whatever you are doing, even if it doesn't look like yourthe life purpose foryou want for the next 30 years. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Whatever you doing now, to be total in doing it. No matter what it is, to be true to life by being true to this moment. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. As you say on page 271, "There is always only this one step, and so you give it your fullest attention. This doesn't mean that you don't know where you're going; it just means that the step you're taking right now is primary, the destination secondary. And what you encounter at your destination once you get there depends on the quality of this one step." I love this so much because I discovered this when I was in the third grade. I couldn't articulate it this way in the third grade. When I was in the third grade, I turned in a book report early in Ms. Driver's class. And the reaction I got from my third grade teacher taught meor informed methat when you do your best, when you do your best in any given moment, that is well received because my third grade teacher told all the other teachers in the teachers' lounge, and I became known as this kid who really loved to read. And that's why we're sitting here today because of that. But I learned in the third grade, this whole process of whatever you're doing in any given moment, if you do it your best, it leads you to the next best moment. So you don't have to worry about what's the next moment coming if you only do your best in this moment. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That's right. Because when the next moment comes, it comes as this moment. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): The future, you never experience the future as the future, you experience the future when it comes as the now because that's all there is. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's all there ever is. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And that's an amazing realization for people to realize life is always just this. It's always the now. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, it's interesting because last week we had Nick from the Bodhi Tree, and you said, and when Nick was up talking about, he had to, "Well, you have to worry about your bills," and you said, "Well, you don't have to worry about your bills." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): You have to pay your bills. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You have to pay your bills, but you don't have to worry about paying your bills. I don't know about the rest of you, but that lesson has sort of been with me all week. So anytime I would find myself in the mind worrying about something, I go, "I don't have to worry about this. I can either figure out what to do about it or release that thought." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So if the bill is here but the money is not there right now, "I can't do anything," put it aside, and then OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Put it aside. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): See, "What action can I take now?" And then you do whatever action you can take now. If you can't take any action, then you just be with it. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, but I love that when I read that, "There is always only this one step." Until you give this one step your fullest attention, that's in middle of page 271, everybody, "and this doesn't mean you don't know where you're going; it just means that this step is primary, the destination is secondary." And what happens is most people are living their lives as though the destination, the end is what it's all about.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. As if the end were more important than now. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Than the means. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): The means. And so the means and the end are, however, are one. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So if there's dissatisfaction and a denial of the present moment, which is a denial of life. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): You're not honoring life if you don't honor this moment by being open to this moment, then that is how you will experience the future because the future is no more than an extension of now. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. You also say on page 271, "The unconscious assumption behind all such action is that success is a future event, and that the end justifies the means. But the end and the means are one." You say that. "Let's say you're a businessperson and after two years of stress and strain you finally manage to come out with a product, a service that sells well and makes money. Success? In conventional terms, yes. In reality, you spent two years polluting your body as well as the earth with negative energy," you made everybody crazy. We don't say that, but you made everybody and everybody around you crazy and affected others you didn't even know. "The unconscious assumption behind all of this action is that success is a future event, and that the end justifies the means. But the end and the means are one. And if the means did not contribute to human happiness, neither will the end." So whatever the end result is, it's going to carry the energy of what it took to get there. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, that's it, yes, yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's exciting. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And that means you actually, you determine what kind of future you're going to experience by deciding to be totally aligned with the present moment. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right. It's your state of conscious now that will determine whatever is manifested in the future. And when that happens, that will just be now.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I got that. I got that very much. Okay. So let's continue with this lesson before we go to Ivy a little bit. You say "The true or primary purpose of your life cannot be found on the outer level." To me, that's the essence of what this book is all about. Everybody who's searching and waiting for answers and looking for it on the outer level: "It does not concern what you do, but what you arethat is to say, your state of consciousness. So the most important thing to realize is this: Your life has an inner purpose and an outer purpose. Inner purpose concerns Being and is primary, outer purpose concerns doing and is secondary." Do you want to elaborate on that? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So once you realize that the primary purpose of your life is the innerand this is what becomes the main purposethen the secondary purpose, the outer purpose falls into place. By being true to life and being true to now, life will bring to you whatever is most appropriate as far as your inner purpose is concerned. Life will become helpful. Suddenly, sometimes the helpful idea comes from within, a sudden realization. "Oh, this is what I want to do; this is what I have to do." But the realization only came because you were aligned with the present moment. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So let's say this. Everybodyeverybody who is born is alive and breathinghas an inner purpose. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. The inner purpose is the same for all of humanity, which is being aligned with life, saying yes to life by saying yes to now. Aligned with the power of the present moment, which is the power of life. That's everybody's purpose. Then the outer purpose varies from person to person. How that translates into what you do varies from person to person. And even in one lifetime it can vary. You may doyou have a certain outer purpose for 10 or 20 years of your life, and suddenly it changes completely. So that varies and is subject to time. It doesn't necessarily last you a whole lifetime, whatever you do. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You say, "Finding and living in alignment with the inner purpose is the foundation of fulfilling your outer purpose. It is the basis for true success. Without that alignment, you can still achieve certain things through effort, struggle, determination, and sheer hard work or cunning. But there is no joy in such endeavor, and it invariably ends in some form of suffering." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, that is you're struggling to make it, you're struggling and fighting, and basically you're makingyou're fighting against life or the world. Me against the universe is what the ego, how the ego sees it. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And isn't it sort of like swimming upstream? I always compare it to swimming upstream when you're, like, going against the grain of your life. There's a flow to all of our lives. And if you are suffering, if you are in pain, if you can't figure out what it is you're supposed to
do, if you're worried, worried, worried all the time, it is because you're going against the flow or the grain of your life. Means you're going against inner purpose. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That when you align with inner purpose, everything flows. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And in negative state, whenever negativity arises and you dwell in negative inner states, then you are not going with the flow of life. You're against the flow of life. And then you experience life as not helpful. You experience life as, even as, hostile because you're in a state of inner denial. You're in a state of negativity, you're not open to life. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay, I got that. I really got that. I really got that. Another friend of mine, a teacher who wrote a book called Seat of the Soul, Gary Zukav, calls it, says, "When the personality or ego comes to serve the energy of the soul," or consciousness, we've been calling it that. "When the personality comes to serve the energy of the soul, that is authentic empowerment." I take that to mean, from the Seat of the Soul, that when you align your personality or use your personality to serve the inner purposeto serve the soul or the consciousnessthen you are your most powerful in the world. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes. And then you're not run by the mind anymore because the mind becomes the servant of what I sometimes call awareness or presence. The mind then serves something greater than itself, which is a consciousness. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You say on page 259, "Instead of being lost in your thinking, when you are awake you recognize yourself as the awareness behind it. Thinking then ceases to be a self-serving autonomous activity that takes possession of you and runs your life. Awareness takes over from thinking. Instead of being in charge of your life," love this everybody, "instead of being in charge of your life, thinking becomes the servant of awareness." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And then the mind is quite helpful. So the mind can be used for many wonderful things. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): When it no longer controls you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I got it. So in essence, our goal on earth as human beingsthese spiritual beings in the body, higher consciousness inside this flesh-filled membranous whatever, bodyour goal is to allow the light of inner purpose or consciousness to come through. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Everything that we do. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. This is why we're here, and that is then also the entire universe isthe purpose of the universe, one could say, is the flowering of consciousness. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It moves toward more and more consciousness. So we then become bringers of that, which is why we're here. So then the consciousnessyou could call it the light, the light of the source, the light of God comes through the human form. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right. And so when you allow the light of Godthe light of consciousnessto come through you, and it is allowed to fuel whatever it is you do, whatever it is you do will be fueled with a spiritual power that will allow you to be the best at what you do. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And then that also means that what you do is not of primary importance, but how you do what you do is what matters. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): How you do it. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): How you do it. And you could be doing something that the world regard as relatively insignificant and yet make an enormous difference to the consciousness of the planet. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Ivy is Skyping us from her living room in Richmond, Virginia. Hi, Ivy. I here you have a question about one of my favorite quotes. Go ahead, what is the question? IVY: Yeah, well, my question deals with trying to find a career path that merges your inner purpose with outer purpose. And on the top of page 274, you say, Eckhart says, "There may be a period of insecurity and uncertainty." And he goes on to say that, if "you are able to live with uncertainty, even
enjoy it you become comfortable with uncertainty, infinite possibilities open up in your life." And my question is this: I'm 26 years old, and the past few months I've tried to find a career path that merges my inner purpose with my outer purpose and haven't really been able to do so. I began to think a lot about my life's purpose and question whether or not I would ever find a career that merged my life's work with something I was passionate about. So my question really is twofold. The first is how should I approach finding a career that is fulfilling but doesn't strengthen my ego. And secondly, and perhaps a more pressing question for me, is how do I do this while also becoming comfortable and embracing the uncertainty that's defining my life right now? OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Good questions. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. So to what extent have you become successful in embracing and accepting this time of your life that you don't know yet what your purpose is, to what extent are you able to say, "Well, can I become comfortable with not knowing?" Have you able to do that? IVY: I, there are periods where I've been able to, but mostly it's just a lot of thinking and feeling very uncomfortable about not knowing. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, and often the uncomfortableness are certain thoughts that go through your mind that tell you it's not okay to be in this state. And then you have certain emotions, which are the body's reaction to those thoughts. So when these thoughts arise, they tell you, "It's not okay. The way you are right now is not okay." Realize that these are thoughts that arise in your mind, conditioned by the surrounding culture and so on, and you don't necessarily need to believe in each thought that comes and tells you it's not okay not to know what to do. Life is an adventure. It's not a packaged tour when you travel. You can take a packaged tour, and everything is already plannedthere's no uncertainty and everywhere you go to a nice hotel in an exotic country, but you won't even know it's exotic because your hotel room is the same as every other hotel room. You're totallyeverything is planned, you know beforehand where you're going to be in 10 days time exactly. That's not an adventure, and it's unlikely that you are going to evolve internally through a trip like that. But if you went into a true trip into some exotic country, thrown back on your own resources, then you would encounter true adventure. And you would probably not be the same person when you come back. Why not? Because we're constantly faced with uncertainty. And if you're able to accept it, you can actually enjoy the adventure. If you cannot accept, it'sI'm giving this analogy of a trip because life is a journey. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And so the person who cannot enjoy the uncertainty when adventure comes is going to be in a continuous state of negativity, of fear. "I don't want to be here. I'd rather be at home." So realize that life is an adventure, and part of the adventure of life is being in that state that you are in now. If everything were
already clear to you now, everything were already mapped out, there would be no evolution of yourself as a human being. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And may I say, Ivy, that is part of what being 26 is all about. That's what 26 is. You're trying to figure it out. That is IVY: Yeah. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That is what the 20s are for. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, and another very helpful thing to remember is one of the most wonderful things in your period of life is to make mistakes. Because mistakes means you realize, "Oh, that's notthat wasn't my purpose." OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And so you are a little bit closer to your true purpose, and then perhaps you think, "Oh, maybe that is my purpose," and then you, after a while you realize, "No, that's not." It's very helpful to make mistakes because gradually you begin to realize what it is that is right for you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. And many times as Eckhart says in this chapter, Ivy, and you will find in your 20s, the 20s are about figuring out where you want to be, and there's this frustration. That's why they call that show The Young and the Restless because there's restlessness about it. And I know that because I've kept journals since I was 15. In my 20s I'm just restless, restless, restless. And when I was your age, 26, I was an anchorwoman on television doing the evening news. I hated it every single day. And what I now realize, and even then, my displeasure with being in that place every day was really informing me what I needed to do. What I needed to do was to get out of that space. And many times, being in a space that you can clearly identify as, "This isI do not want to do this." I want to be in television, I knew, but I do not want to do this. And, you know, and I had my father and everybody around saying, "You're going to give up that job in television?" I knew I could not do that. News felt exploitive to me. So, many times if you're in a position where you know what you don't want to do, isn't that also helpful, Eckhart? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Oh, yes, yes. For a while, I thought my life purpose was to an academic at university. And then come to realization after years of spending time working hard to become a professor, I realized that's not my life purpose at all. But I had to go through it. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Didn't you give up a promising career as an academia?
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Yes. I gave up the PhD, I gave up the promising career, and my relatives, my mother thought I was insane to give that up, but I knew this is what I had to do. It was so clear; there was no doubt about it anymore. For a little while there was doubt, and then the realization was so strong, I had to walk out of there. And that led to a period of uncertainty for a few years. I didn't know, what am I supposed to with my life? Here I am, I was just barely managing to survive, and gradually, I lived, but I was not unhappy. I was happy with the present moment then already. Then, gradually, something evolved; people started asking me questions. People that I met casually in parks, casually, and gradually, kind of spiritual teaching started to happen. And after a little while when somebody called me for the first time, "Oh, you're a spiritual teacher." It's, "Oh, that's what I am." And so the purpose came by itself. It came just out of that state of just being with what is and not being unhappy with not knowing. Being at ease with not knowing. Then it's much more likely to come to you when you're at ease with not knowing. So the question that you can ask yourself, "Can I be at ease with not knowing?" OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): With not knowing. This is what you say on 274 that Ivy had mentioned earlier, "You become comfortable with uncertainty, infinite possibilities open up in your life." And it means when you become comfortable with uncertainty, it means "fear is no longer a dominant factor in what you do and no longer prevents you from taking action to initiate change." That's the big thing. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because as long as you are afraid, you cannot allow the energy of what is supposed to happen to come into your life. As long as you're afraid, right? Fear blocks that. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, that's right, yes. Yes. So be alert and watch your mind to see what kind of thoughts it produces. There also, there may be the emotion of fear, as Oprah says, arising occasionally, associated with a thought. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Like, "What's going to happen to me?" ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Because the mind wants to know what the future is going to bring up. But how dread life would be how dreadfully boring it would beif you knew already what's going to happen. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, part of that is because, too, people get afraid, because of, again, what Nick saidNick is our spiritual teacher this weekbecause of what Nick said last week about worrying about your bills because you're living outside yourself, you're creating more debt, creating more debt, creating more debt, allowing yourself to beto operate from the thinking mind. At the time that you made these decisions for yourself, you were living on and practically, you said, at the poverty level.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes. And so you survive somehow. You make it. One more question before you go, is there anything in your life that you truly enjoy? Are there certain things that you enjoy doing that may not be necessarily associated in your mind with career. IVY: Not really, that I can think of. Nothing I can think of. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Okay, then what's left is for you to enjoy the present moment and make that your spiritual practice. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. IVY: Okay. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But I thought you were saying earlier, Ivy, about, you know, trying to align your passion, what you love and getting paid for it. Isn't that what you were talking about earlier? IVY: Yes. Well, something I was passionate about. To (inaudible) what I'm passionate about once I figure that out. I don't really know what that is right now. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. Well, I willto reiterate something that Eckhart was saying last weekit doesn't come out of your head. For everybody who's looking for that answer for the purpose of your life or what should I be doing, it does not come from your head. It's not something you're ever going to think up. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You don't think it. It comes from that space that we opened tonight's session with being still and knowing that I am God. Being still and allowing the presence of a universal energythe presence of consciousnessto come through you in such a way that it's a feeling; it is a feeling. It is not something you're going to think up how to do it. And you will just, you will start to feel that, "I feel better doing this thing than I feel doing the other thing." It's a feeling that comes to you, not something that comes into your head, correct? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That's right, yes. And you need to be careful that you are not in a state of dissatisfaction because when you're in dissatisfaction, the answer is not likely to come, neither from within, nor from without. So keep your inner space clear, aligned with now so that no negativity arises. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And then may I add, also, for you and everybody else who is trying to get this whole idea of purpose, some clarity about that. When you allow yourself to be still with it, you're not afraid of the uncertainty. The universe rises up to meet you. The world, Eckhart says in here,
I can't remember what page in this chapter, but he talks about how coincidences happen, you know. Little things and big things happen. So you then have to be alert and paying attention to your life so when the opening shows itself, you're ready. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And that's much more likely to come when you're in a state of clarity aligned with now. Then the answer can come from within or the answer can come from without. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): As some chance encounter, something you see in the paper. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Or something you can't even think where it might come from. A synchronistic event, a coincidence. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. It shows itself. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right, in ways that you hadn't seen before. Thank you Ivy from Richmond, Virginia. IVY: Thank you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you so much. So you say on 261, "While you are perhaps still waiting for something significant to happen to your life, you may not realize that the most significant thing that can happen to a human being has already happened within you: the beginning of the separation process of thinking and awareness." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Which is the awakening, which is another way of explaining what the term "awakening" means. That before your awarenessor your consciousnesswas totally identified with thought processes, with thinking. But now, and this is the case for everybody who reads this book and finds it meaningful. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It means, if you are reading this book and you find it meaningfulsomething within your respondsit means you have already begun to awaken.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): To awaken. Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): If you haven't, the book will be meaningless. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Got it, got it. You're saying, "As long as you are unaware of Being," on 263, "you will seek meaning only within dimension of doing," the dimension of doing, "and the future, that is to say, the dimension of time. And whatever meaning or fulfillment you find will dissolve. ... Invariably, it will be destroyed by time. Any meaning we find on that level is true only relatively and temporarily." So you're saying looking outside yourself, you're not going to find anything. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No, that's right. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So let's go to the Bodhi Tree Bookstore in West Hollywood. Is Nick there tonight? Well, Nick, step on up to the microphone. You're back. So glad to see you. NICK: Good to be here. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. Do you have a question tonight? NICK: I do. And actually, my question kind of relies on a premise that's not exactly stated in the book, but the premise is "God is love." And if god is love, and you love what you're doing as far as a career, then God, does God then sanction that career, is it then meant to be? Is it right iflet's say if you don't go to church, but if you enjoy doing something like readingand if you're reading constantly and you get a more spiritual feeling reading than ever walking into a church, then isn't that right? Isn't that in alignment withor is love not anything that matters in a career choice? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Well, good question. Now, love, of course, is used in a very loose sense. It means so many different things to different people, the expression "I love this or that" or "I love doing this or that" is used casually by people, often meaning totally different things. For example, if somebody is obsessed with what they do in an ego waytotally focused but in a negative way to a large extent, totally obsessed with what they're doing, and theyan outside observer might say, "Oh, he loves what he's doing. He loves it so much that he gets up at 5 every morning and doesn't leave the office until 10 at night." But he's totally obsessed with what he's doing, and there's no love in it. It's an obsession. But because love is used in such a loose way, sometimes we call that love. So when you actually love what you're doing, it's a totally different energy field that moves into what you are doing. It means you are aligned completely with what you do. And then, yes, then you do bring a different consciousness. You bring the unconditioned consciousness into this world through whatever you do. And it might be a doing or it may just be being somewhere. You mentioned a church. You can find God in many places. Any place is holy, and the present moment, when you only pay attention to it completely, then you realize,
actually, it's sacred. The present moment is sacred. When you're really paying attention to it, then it doesn't matter where you areyou can be in a building, you can be out in nature, you can be in the middle of the traffic. And you really bring your attention to this moment, and you realize, "There is sacredness here." You may be able to feel it more deeply when you're out in nature than in the middle of L.A. freeway. But even there it can be sensed if you are present enough. And there, that's love. There love arises, and if you're doing something, and you're total in what you donot obsessed, not wanting the future more than you want the present, but totally wanting the present, totally wanting what you are doingthen, yes, then you love what you do, and that is true love. And anybody who embodies that energy is creating the new earth. NICK: So that's correct then. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. NICK: There's a difference, I guess I'm thinking of Joseph Campbell where he talks about following your bliss, and he talks about how appetitive desires like eating and sex and drugsthings through the body, love that come through the bodyare nothing compared to the love that comes from the spirit, which makes everything else pale in comparison, and that is the bliss that Joseph Campbell talks about. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. NICK: And that's what Ithat's what I think you mean when you say that we're present and we're doing what we're supposed to do because we feel that feeling that makes everything else pale in comparison. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That's right. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. Nick, that's what he's talking about at the bottom of 261, "So while you're perhaps still waiting for something significant to happen in your life, you may not realize that the most significant thing that can happen has already happened within you: the beginning of the separation process of thinking and awareness." When you take yourself out of your head and take yourself out of the doing, doing, doing, doing and allow yourself to connect with the consciousness or spirit, or soul, whichever word you want to use for itthat is connected to all consciousness. The spirit that is connected to the greater spirit is what it's talking about. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You got it, Nick. NICK: Thanks.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You've got it. NICK: It's a lot of hard work, what can I say? OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Nick, listen, I didn't worry this week because he's told you not to worry. Have you been worried about your bills this week? NICK: Yeah, a little bit. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Oh, wow. Thanks everybody at the Bodhi Tree. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): One more thing, just to add to this. When the doingwhen you're doing in that state of consciousness, that means whatever you do is not primarily a means to an end. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Correct. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): But an end in itself. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): You know what you want to achieve through the doing, that's fine, but the essence of the doing is in the doing, not the goal that you want to achieve through it. So often the question you can ask yourself is, "Is what I'm doing right now primarily a means to an end, or am I total in what I do?" And there's a different quality flows into what you do when it is not just a means to an end. And that is doing in the state of presence, different energy flows into that. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I love that. I also love at the bottom of 263. You say, "For example, if caring for your children gives meaning to your life"because everybody's looking for meaning "what happens to the meaning when they don't need you and perhaps don't even listen to you anymore? If helping others gives meaning to your life, you depend on others being worse off than yourself so that your life can continue to be meaningful and you can feel good about yourself. If the desire to excel, win, or succeed," I'm at the top of page 264, everybody, "at this or that activity provides you with meaning, what if you never win or your winning streak comes to an end? 'Making it' in whatever field is only meaningful as long as there are thousands or millions of others who don't make it, so you need other human beings to 'fail' so that your life can have meaning." I was going to ask, though, what if you're making it, you're aligned with your purpose?
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Now after that it doesn't say that those things should not be pursued immediately after what you just read. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes, it says, "I am not saying here that helping others, caring for your children, or striving for excellence in whatever field are not worthwhile things to do. For many people, they're important." In the end though, you say, "It means you should connect into your inner, primary purpose, so that a deeper meaning flows into what you do." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. For example then, we talked about looking after your children and that being the main purpose of your life, and again, we have the two dimensions of purpose: outer purpose ,which is what a good parent does anyway. You look after the needs of the child, and you protect the child as much as possible. But it's the inner purpose there also, which the inner purpose is there when a field of awareness arises between you and the child. There's a space. Are you able to give the child spaciousness or space? Are you able to be open and listen to the child in a nonjudgmental way? OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Are you able to be with your child? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Be, are you able to be with your child, or are you lost in doing? Is it continuous doing? OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Or can you bring being into your relationship with your child? And if you bring being in, that is, you're fulfilling the inner purpose. Then when the child grows up, it's less, much less likely or improbable that you will get attached to your role of parent. You will then be able to let go of the role. And then be OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And then able to be whatever you need to be. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): At any given situation. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): All right. You say, "If you ignore your inner purpose," that's why I keep reading from the book because I think I want to stress how important it is to connect to inner purpose. "If you ignore your inner purpose," bottom of 264, "no matter what you do, even if it looks spiritual, the ego will creep into how you do it, and so the means will corrupt the end. The common saying, 'The road to hell is paved with good intentions' points to this truth. In other words, not your aims or actions
are primary, but the state of consciousness out of which they come. Fulfilling your primary purpose is laying the foundation for a new reality, a new earth." Doesn't that mean that it's not just what you do, but it's the intention behind once you do it? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, the consciousness that flows into what you do. And there's nofuture is always secondary in the doing. That is theyour future is not that you look forward to primarily, but totality in what you do, being totally here. Any performer, anyartists know this very well. I, can you be, when you're total, then completely different energy arises. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): I sometimes, you see, the moment the artist performs sometimes is an empowerment that suddenly comes in because then it's sometimes only then that this person can be absolutely total in the present moment. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I see that. I was with Tina Turner and Cher this weekend for a show that we're doing on May 8. Everybody, don't miss that, Tina Turner and Cher. And watching them in rehearsal, sitting in the, we're just all sitting in the bleachers and watching. And then when they each came to the stage, something happened where there was like, they were infused by something from another level that you could see. Something came over them on the stage. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And whatever that was, this is so interesting watching them perform to (inaudible), you say, "I want some of that." I want some of that. And what that is is the present or level of consciousness that they're bringing. Not just the beat and rock 'n' roll. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): No. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And that's also what people respond to. They go there because they can sense there's something there that is very powerful. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Very powerful, yeah. Inspiration and enthusiasm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. And you say when the combination of inspiration and enthusiasm, something happens that's bigger than one person. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. So Gwen and Bob have spent the last 17 years teaching at schools on U.S. military bases throughout Europe. They now live outside Munich, Germany, and are Skyping us from their kitchen. Hi, Gwen and Bob from Munich. GWEN: Hi, Oprah. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Hi. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Hi. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Hello to you all. Is it the middle of the night there or early morning? GWEN: Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): What's your question? GWEN: Well, my question's about apologizing. I'm reading on page 258, we say the most important thing to realize is your life has inner and outer purpose. And I have found that apologizing when it's the right time helps me get back in alignment. However, when I have been wronged by someone, I expect to hear that apology to help build the relationship and get it back to a positive way. And I like feeling comfortable around others, and when there's not closure and notand apologies don't come, I feel very uncomfortable. And I'm beginning to wonder if this is my ego at play, and how can I maintain an inner and outer alignment when I don't feel I have an appropriate apology from the person I expect it from? OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, you just answered your own question, really. I'm going to let Eckhart answer you. But you just answered your own question cause you just key word here: appropriate. "I have not received the appropriate apology from people." That would be your ego that needs that appropriate apology. Take it away, Eckhart. Mr. Tolle. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Adding to that, of course, the ego, another thing the ego does is it keeps accounts, and it says, "You owe me." And in this case it says, "You owe me an apology." Now, this is good because this is an opportunity for you to become aware of the ego in you. So whenever the ego arises and you recognize it as the ego, it's a great opportunity of saying, "Oh, there's the ego." There are the thoughts that the ego produces in my mind which say, "He should apologize. She should have apologized." And another thought that comes: "I can't be comfortable with this person anymore unless he or she apologizes." You can observe the thoughts that the ego produces, and you can observe the emotions that are there as
a result of those thoughts. So it's a wonderful opportunity for you to see your own ego, which is no more than the human ego. It doesn't mean there is anything wrong with you, but to observe ego in action. This is always the greatest thing toand then at that moment when you become aware of this kind of thought emotional, mental emotional pattern in you, who are you? When you recognize it, you're already in the space of awareness from where you recognize it. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You take away its power. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You diminish its power. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And so peoplethere are many reasons why people don't apologize. People don't apologize because they may not even know that there is anything to apologize in their view of things. Or they may not apologize because their interpretation of what's happened is the complete opposite of your interpretation. Perhaps they thinkor their ego thinksthat you should apologize. Or, or GWEN: Well, I'd like to think I do. I get it. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But also that's how you're using it based on what you're saying. Based on what you just told us here, it's your ego's way of feeling superior because you like to think you do and you're the one that goes and says, "Well, I apologized and you didn't." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Or you can keep a resentment inside for quite a whilean inner resentmentwhenever you think of that person or you meet that person. There's a little resentment at the back, which is also the ego. The ego loves hanging on to resentments. And when resentments go on for a long time, as I've described somewhere in the book, they've become grievances. Grievances are heavy, long-term resentments. So you can observe that in yourself, and again be happy that you're observing, able to observe the ego in you. It's a wonderful thing to be able to do that. And of course, and then another person, the other person who is not apologizing, perhaps it's the ego who prevents them from apologizing because the ego in many peoplethis is not a particular function perhaps of your ego, but in many other people the ego finds it almost impossible to apologize because it believes that it would be losing something by apologizing, which of course is a delusion. So these things happened. It's a wonderful opportunity for you to see your own ego, and by seeing it, you realize the awareness grows in you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right. Bob, what's your question for Eckhart? BOB: Yes. On page 265, Eckhart refers to"your external purpose becomes charged with spiritual power because your aims and intentions will be one with the evolutionary impulse of the universe."
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I love that. BOB: What is the evolutionary impulse of the universe? OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That is so great. Let's read that one more time. "Once that foundation" he says. "Fulfilling your primary purpose is laying the foundation for a new reality, a new earth. Once that foundation is there, your external purpose becomes charged with spiritual power because your aims and intentions will be one with the evolutionary impulse of the universe." Thank you, cause I had written, "Aha!," and there are three littleI read it three times, and I got stars, circles, everything around that. Thank you for bringing that up, Bob. What do you mean by that? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Now, I'm not sending you back to the book, but the answer somewhere in the book. I'm not sending you there now, so let's look at it. The evolutionary purpose of the universe is growth of consciousness. It's going towardsomething is flowing into this world of so-called matter, physicality. Something is flowing into this world of physicality or matter that comes from a different dimension almost, one could say. How do I know this? Because I know it in myself. I know it. I've observed it in other people too. Something is flowing into this world of thisit seems to be very heavy, the heaviness of matter. Something very different flows in, which I call consciousness. Which you can call spirit. So a spirit is beginninghas already started a long time ago, but now beginning more fully through the human form amongst other formsto come into this world more and more fully. This is the arising of awareness, the arising of presence. And all that is part of the greater evolution because there's a famous dictum, which is so true, "As above, so below." So whatever happens here on this planet and in the human form will be reflected throughout the universe. These are universal movements. "As above, so below. As below, so above." So what happens here in the microcosm of the earth will also be happening in the macrocosm. So when I saypeople might ask me, "How do you know whatwhat the, purpose of the universe is, the evolution of the universe is?" Because I know it in myself. If you know it in yourself, you know many, many answers even about the macrocosm because the macrocosm is no more that a reflection of the inner. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And you see it all the time in nature. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You see it all the time in nature, you see it all the time in nature. The whole process that's going on in nature is also going on with humans. We compare ourselves to nature. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): The principles are the same. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. Did that answer your question, Bob? BOB: Kind of. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No, don't, you'll have to really know the answer, you have to go within. It's not through the mind or through somebody like listening to me and then saying, "Okay, I believe what you said." I don't want anybody to believe what I said. I want people to really go within and verify within themselves whether or not that is true in their own experience. So by becoming more conscious of your inner being, many answers will come. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. Let me take a stab at it, interpreting what I hear Eckhart saying. He's saying that there's a universal source or power of energy that all of us that we all stem from that universal power or source or energy. You're with me, right? You can call it God, you can call it whatever you choose to call it, you can call it higher consciousness, or you can call it universal energy, you can call it the divine. When you tap into the part of you that iswe're calling consciousness or presence or inner purposewhen you tap into that, that is connected to the source of all universal power and energy. Are you with me so far? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. And when you tap into that part of you that is connected to all universal power and energy, your aims and intentions will be one with what all universal power and energy is striving for. And what it's striving for is for you to allow the consciousness to come through you as a human being. So that's what he means by evolutionary impulse. Impulse of the universe is to support you and you bringing about your higher consciousness. That's why you're here is to allow that part of you that is connected to all that is universal energy, the source or God. To better explain it, it is the God in you. When you allow the God in you to come forth, the God of all things supports that. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And you just gave us a demonstration of that because the whole energy shifted when you spoke those words. Very powerful energy came through. So beyond what you said, energy that came through with it was actually a demonstration of that. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, thank you. Did it? Did it? You got it now, Bob? BOB: Yeah, can I ask one more thing? OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Sure, sure.
BOB: Would there be a way to convey Eckhart's teaching on awareness to Christians who are probably offended by labels like evolution. Is there a way to convey this message GWEN: Of the awakening, without getting into the evolution. BOB: There are people who are going really shut down when they hear the word "evolution." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Well, if they're completely shut down then of course there's no way they're going to listen to you. But not all those people are going to be completely shut down. I don't believe that evolution is necessarily a problem for all Christians. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, and evolutionary process, the evolutionary impulse of the universe is about the evolvement as the earthbecause even as Christians you know that the earth keeps evolving, it keeps evolving, it keeps moving forward. We as human beings keep evolving. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): You can see it in your own life. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You can see it in your own life. You're not the same as you were 25 years ago. That's your evolutionary process as Bob and Gwen here on the planet. Bob and Gwen have evolved as Christians. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And even as you are a practicing Christian, in the beginning of practicing Christianity, your faith may not be as strong or you may not be as tested, but you evolved in the process of your Christianity. Actually, can you ask somebody in the back to bring me the e-mail, Dean, that came in from a message board this week? I thought the woman who talked about father son and Holy Ghost as consciousness, and there was a beautiful e-mail that came on the message board from a woman who is practicing Christian who said she was Catholic. And I'm going to try to get the e-mails. Because she bestand I had a, I had an aha! moment reading it because I thought, "Oh, that's right!" The Holy Trinity, the Holy Spirit is the higher consciousness that you're talking about. And you just call it consciousness. But as a Christian, it is the Holy Spirit where Jesus said, "I leave you with the holy spirit." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You see that, right, Bob and Gwen?
GWEN: Oh, yeah. It's just the use of that word sometimes puts some people off that might otherwise have the door to be awakened. And just knowing that word is in the book, they might just say, "Whoa, I'm not quite ready to do that yet." OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Evolution. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Evolution. Well, it will particularly put people off who take a literal, absolutely literal interpretation of Genesis. But most Christians, I believe, don't take an absolutely literal interpretation of Genesis. And they would be perhaps OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And if you do, then that's not for you. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No, that's, it's fine. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Then this isn't the path that you need to follow. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No, yes. But if you're open to the idea that this creation may not be literally true, but that it is actually a description of an evolutionary process, not of blind chancethis is what Christians object to mostly. I also see it; it's absurd. It's not blind chance. Evolution is not something coming together over billions of years of atoms and molecules accidentally bring about this beautiful universe. I do not believe that there is no guiding intelligence behind evolution. There is. That is so obvious when you look at the world and you look at yourself. You know the famous analogy of the monkey and the typewriter? OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): No, I don't. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Oh, they say OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): There's a famous analogy about a monkey and a typewriter? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): This is to do withto describe what evolution means by people who believe it is blind chance. It's a mechanical mechanistic thing that how evolution happened. All chance events that would mean if you put a monkey at a typewriter, and this monkey is immortal, and this monkey starts hitting the keys of the typewriter and goes on for a billion years or two billion years or longer, they say if evolution as chance development is true, then eventually the monkey is going to produce by chance the works of Shakespeare over a billion years.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It's not going to happen. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. I missed that monkey and the typewriter analogy somewhere in my college upbringing. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): But, you see the OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes, I see it. I see it. Here's a quote. Bob and Gwen, can we go back to them? This is from somebody named Button20. Did you see this last week? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You don't see the message boards, do you? Actually she's Joannie in Long Beach, actually. She said, "My faith was strong." "Oprah, Oprah, Oprah, my faith was strong, but now it's growing stronger and stronger every day. The words of the Bible," she says, "are just jumping out at me. How could I have not seen them so clearly before? Like, 'Be still and know that I am God.' 'I will not leave you alone. I will always be with you.' This book, A New Earth, has put into words what I always felt from within. As a Catholic, I can describe my faith very simply. It's based on the Holy Trinity, which is "in the name of the father, the son and the holy spirit." That's it in a nutshell. The rest of the Bible is just a history lesson as to how all that came about. To say it another way, God created the world, saw what a mess we were making, sent his son down to teach us how to live. Then Jesus said when he knew he was going to have to leave us, 'I will ask my father, and he will give you another advocate, the Holy Spirit to be with you always. The spirit of truth which the world cannot accept because it neither sees nor knows it because it remains in you and will be in you.' John 14:16. And here it is again," she writes. "John 14:26-27. 'The Holy Spirit that the father will send in my name will teach you everything and remind you all of that I have told you. Peace I leave to you. My peace I give to you. Not as the world gives do I give it to you. Do not let your hearts be troubled or afraid. And you know what, Oprah? I got it this time when I read it. I really got it. People wouldn't be so afraid if they only knew that the energy flowing through their very being, which I choose to call the holy spirit, is the most fabulous, wireless connection to the, most powerful source in the universe; the God that created us. May God bless you and keep you safe in his grace, you are truly one of his messengers." And that's from Joannie of Long Beach, California. And she write, ends with "Life is a gift; live every day as a thank you note." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Very good.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Isn't that fantastic? I mean I just thought this was so fantastic. So happy to share that with you. That's what one Christian had to say, okay. GWEN: Thank you. It's very nice. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I thought that was great too. Joannie, Long Beach. I almost Skyped her this week. I thoughtisn't that perfection? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I thought that was perfection. Thanks, Gwen and Bob, thank you guys. GWEN: Thank you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Shall we continue here? You say, "Your inner purpose is to awaken. It is as simple as that. You share purpose with other people on the planetbecause it is the purpose of humanity." Let's again talk about what it means to awaken. Doesn't the very word "purpose" imply that you can do something about it? Purpose, means on purpose. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That's right. I ask that question OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You say you can't make it happen, that it is an act of grace, this awakening. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, and what I talk about is the first moment of the awakening. It happens or it doesn't happen. First moment, which is the disidentification from the stream of thinking and the arising, might only be a glimpse at first. The arising of awareness. You're suddenly becoming aware that there is a realm underneath thinking, there is a realm of stillness inside you. You touch it. Maybe you're out in nature. Suddenly as you did, when you were on the mountain top. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Oh, I had another one. You know what? I had another one just Friday. This is going to be on this Friday. But this past Friday I was at Tom Cruise's house. You know Tom Cruise. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Not personally. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): I know he jumped on your sofa somewhere. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Oh, you even know that, okay. Okay, we're going to talk about that. Now I'm jumping on his. I went to his house to jump on his. Anyway, Tom Cruise lives in theI could cry just thinking about it. He lives in the most magnificent place I have ever seen, read, heard or experienced in my life. I tell you, I drove through his house through this grove of aspen trees for like a half mile before we get to the gate. He lives at the top of the mountain, and the house sits in the center, and you're surrounded by all the mountains of Telluride. We went outside through his bedroom to stand on the balcony, and there are all these aspen trees around and the mountains and absolute stillness. Absolute stillness. So much, my eyes started to water. I've never, I've never seen anything more beautiful or felt anything so deep, so rich. And aside from that time I was on my mountain. And I said to him, first of all, what it takes to be the kind of person that comes to this, that has that as your space, and you know, he's had a lot of, you know, things going on in his life. And I said, "No matter what, you have this. You have this place to come to." Oh, my god. I would justand I felt so filled up when I left, from the stillness. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And we stood out on Tom's balcony and I said, "Tom, can you hear the silence? It has its own language." He said, "Yeah, you're right, it does. It has its own language." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Was he already aware of it, or you made him OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, he was. No, he was, he was aware of it, he was aware of it, yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Wonderful. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That was my moment with Tom Cruise that you'll get to see. Now, when you see us on television this Friday, you won't get all of that because it's all about the interview and stuff, but I had a spiritual moment with Tom at the top of the mountain, yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Well, these are wonderful moments of grace. But you don't necessarily need to be in those beautiful places. It's a greatit's an act of grace when it happens. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): But that stillness is primarily an inner dimension, and it can arise anywhere. But sometimes it's good to have experienced it there where the environment is most conducive to experiencing ultimately the inner because if you don't feel it on the inner, you won't really be aware of the silence around you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It's only through the inner that you can be aware of the outer silence. So to be aware of silence, how can you be aware of silence only by being still? OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, yeah, yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Because it's only the stillness in you that is aware of the silence. If your mind were totally occupied with noisy thinking, you would not even know it's still around you. Or you would say to someone, "Oh, it's very still," and then you would carry on thinking. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Wouldn't really experience it. So there's the equivalent of outer stillness, this is the outer dimension of spirit. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): You can sense spirit that's out there in nature. But you can only sense it because you already have it within you. It's that in you that responds, that senses it. Only people whose mind is not totally noisy can actually be aware of silence. And so I sometimes observe when I go, I will go for a walk in the forest every day, and often I see people who are jogging or walking their dogs, and very few are really there. They're talking on the phone, they have headphones on, they're talking to their friends and all that immersive thinking. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So they could be anywhere. They could be ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Could be anywhere. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): In the office. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. Someone asked, "Eckhart, everything you say in your book resonates with spirit. I believe it to be true. However, do people ever ask you how you know all this. If so, how to respond? Where does your knowledge come from?" This is from Rene in Indianapolis. Where does your knowledge come from? How do you know what you know? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): The essence of it comes through a realization. In other words it's by touching the consciousness that one is that you are. It comes through becoming still and listening for what comes out of the stillness. It's not primarily based on knowledge, although of course I have read spiritual books, quite a few. I use sometimes some of the terminology that is already in existence, has been in existence for a long, long time. But the book is more than just a compilation of other spiritual books that I have read. The essence of the book is in my own realization. In other words, the answers come by being still. When I write, I sit there with a note pad, a pen, and become still. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Not on computer? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No. Everything is done by hand. So then I wait for some movement of thought to come out of the stillness. And then gradually a thought formulates itself, and then there is a critical faculty that says, "Okay, does that makes sense?" Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. If it doesn't make sense, I become still again and then perhaps a thought that is more suited to what I can sense comes up ,and then I write it down. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So did you write this book from a place of inner space? You know, last week we talked about inner space, and I was a little frustrated until the end of the class because I was trying to get this concept of inner space across to all of our viewers and listeners. And at the end of last week's class, as we had gone off the air here, Eckhart said, I said, remember, I said to you, "I'm a little frustrated," and you said, "Because you cannot understand it through concepts and language, that inner space isn't something you can understand with your mind." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No. So as an explanation, it's not very satisfying when one talks about inner stillness and then people try to understand, "Okay, what is he actually talking about?" And you can see already, when you're in your head, inner stillness. "What's that about?" OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That doesn't make any sense. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Of course it doesn't.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Or people say, "It's all that woo-woo stuff." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, that's what some journalists often say they come to spirituality and say, "Oh, it's all that stuff. They don't give themselves a chance. You really, it's, you have to give yourself a chance and see whether you can sense in yourself that to which these words point. So and only then does it become real and alive. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And that is the same thing we're saying to Bob and Gwen, when Bob is trying to say, "What do you mean by the evolutionary impulse of the universe?" What that really means is that when you are in alignment, when your inner purpose is aligned with what you do, that you will be supported by the spirit of God or by universal energy in such a way that life opens up to you. And people think, "Oh, it's about you being lucky," or, "Gee, isn't that strange that this happened?" Serendipitous things happen. Things fall into line. Right. When you are in alignment. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, that they fall into line, that's one way or another, everybody can experience that, so why not give it a try? Live as if the present moment were more important than past and future. On a practical level, of course, you still use past and future. But give your attention to this. Spend some a few days or few weeks living in that way. Immediately surrendering negativity when it arises and recognizing it as egobased or pain-body-based. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because all negativity is ego-based? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Well, negativity loves ego; it's a denial of life. The moment you identify with negativity, that's part of the ego. So experiment because you've lived in one particular state of conscious for many years. Try something different, and see what happens. And what happens primarily and first of all is an inner shift. And after a little time gap sometimes, it gets reflected in the outer realm also. But that's no longer the main thing because the main thing already is that you enter that state of peaceful, alive presence in yourself. When you're aligned with what is, aligned with the now. And that's what matters. The rest is the icing on the cake. When good things happen to you. It doesn't mean you now feel good because something good has happened to you, something good has happened to you because you already found the goodness within you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right. So you can only manifest that which you already are. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes. You already are that. Whatever people are looking for, whatever form they already are that. They are looking for God, and I'm not saying that this form is God. I'm not saying that this person is God. I'm saying the essence, if you go deep enough within, they look around where you and God merge. And it's everybody's destiny and purpose to live from that place of connectedness.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. Because of the I am, the I am is I am that which comes from God. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I am that which comes from God. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Laurie lives in New Brunswick, Canada, and she's Skyping us from her family room in St. John. Hello, Laurie. LAURIE: Hello, Oprah. Hello, Eckhart. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Hello. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Welcome to our conversation here this evening. LAURIE: Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): What do want to say to us? LAURIE: I would like to comment on the dialogue on inner purpose that begins on page 262. There are parts of that dialogue, the parts that were written in italics that could've been me speaking word for word. In fact, those where the reasons that I think I was drawn to the book in the first place. I turn 38 this summer, and I've had two members of my immediate family die in their mid-30s. So their deaths have left me very keenly aware of the immediacy of my own living and how important it is for me to align my life, however long it shall be, with my inner purpose. And to make sure that the relationships that I have with peoplemy husband and my children especiallyare genuine. And that I conduct my life from that place of higher consciousness. So my question is, I'm so aware of how important and precious every moment of this human experience is. I don't want to waste a moment of it on anger or resentment or disappointment. Some days, I'm just more conscious than others. So I ask, Eckhart, do you believe that two people can actually live in an intimate relationship with one another either as partners or as parent and child without wanting from one another? And do two people have to be at the same place in their spiritual awakening for this to happen? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Thank you, thank you. Good question. Now, when I say without wanting, what I mean of course is without saying, "I want you. You are my property. You must not leave me, otherwise I will get extremely angry." That's kind ofit doesn'tI'm not saying that you might not say to your partner, "I want you to take out the garbage because I took it out yesterday." On a practical level, there may be some wanting. So the question is, can two people live together without that deep psychological wanting that
wants to cling to the other person, says, "fulfill me or make me happy, don't you dare leave me," right? That is the question. What I would like to change the question a little bit from "can two people" because you cannot be responsible for somebody else. Ask yourself the question, "Can I live with my partner or whoever without bringing in this unconscious energy of wanting, which comes from the ego? Can I live with a person like that?" Because it only requires really one person to go through this shift in consciousness. So only you can really answer the question, and it's not an abstract question. It's a question that you can only apply to the present moment to really answer it as an alive question rather than an abstract thing, whether "Can people live in fully conscious together?" is an abstract question. A more powerful and a more vital question is, "Can I? And even that notch, all my, for the rest of my life?" Not like that, no. No. So you bringto, to find the answer, a vital answer that is true for you, you have to remember that question as you live it, situations arise in your relationship. See, at this moment, "Can I be free of that egoic wanting and needing?" And if you cannot be free at this moment of this egoic wanting and needing, and because you cannot be free, negativity arises because the partner is not responding to the wanting and needing or isn't even there, hasn't come home yet. Then this is your chance again to be aware, as I mentioned to the other question a little earlier on, this is your chance to become aware of the ego in you as the wanting. So even if the answer, "Can I be free of wanting?" is, "No, obviously I can't because there's still wanting in me." Then at least you are able to recognize the ego, and that means how are you able to recognize the ego? You're becoming aware. And only when you dwell in awareness, in your relationship, can you be free of those unconscious movements. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. I think the wanting that you're talking about is wanting you to be a certain way to help fill me up. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's what he's talking about. Not in terms of practical, "I need you to pick up the laundry, I want you to pick up the milk, I want you to" That's very different than, "I want you to be what I want you to be so that you make me whole." Even though that whole, you know, Tom Cruise, as a matter of fact, Jerry McGuire line, "You complete me." Wanting somebody to complete you is what he's talking about because nobody can. LAURIE: Yes, I think I misinterpreted that as being, wanting, you know, wanting recognition from your spouse or wanting gratitude or wanting respect or things like that. And I couldn't quite figure out how you live in an intimate relationship without wanting those things, and for me in ourwe have a busy household. We have five little boys all under the age of 9. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Good God! LAURIE: There's always somebody wanting something around here. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Where are you? At a closed off room somewhere with the door locked?
LAURIE: I am, and it's also 10, so they're all in bed. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. LAURIE: But for me, I think, and you've talked a lot about people having their own spiritual practice, and I guess for me right now, it's living amidst the chaos of the day and not getting mired down in the muck of the daily routine, and being able to stay above that. Being unflappable and keeping that sensing of inner peace even though it's a little bit chaotic in the immediate surroundings. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right, with five boys under 9, oh, my god, it's a noisy house. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Well, a good practice here is not wanting to be this moment to be different from the way it is. Just this moment. That's where you relinquish the wanting, that's just a main relinquishment or letting go of wanting. Not wanting this momentand it's always this momentto be different. So if the children are screaming and just mayhem, that's what is and then you deal with what is. But not the internal rejection of what is. So not wanting, really deep down is not wanting this moment, a moment may come in the form of a person, your partner, the children. At this moment, this is what is and not wanting this moment to be different from the way it is. Then you are aligned. Then you act. You take action. You can tell them, "Stop doing that," but internally you are free, you're not reacting internally. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): What about what Laurie was saying about wanting recognition? Not just from your spouse, a lot of people you do things and you want people to recognize what you've done, you know, to be, you know, I don't know, admired or you know, receive affection in your relationship, is that your ego? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It often is. But if you believe that the world is withholding from you, I say that somewhere in the book. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes, you say it in the book. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Give what you think people owe you, give it, and then you see a reciprocal movement, not even necessarily from the very same people you're giving it to. But the universe reciprocates if you give recognition, gratitude, whatever it is. You give it out even to strangers. Recognition, a smile, giving, so there's a flow of energy flows out. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Cause what you give out, what you put out is going to come back always, always, always. That's a universal law. Thank you, Laurie. Thank you for your moment of calm with the five boys.
LAURIE: Thank you. I'm going to miss this on Monday night. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Oh, well, thank you very much. LAURIE: This is my OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Is this your time for yourself? LAURIE: This is. Yeah, it's great. We worked hard to carve out those moments of stillness around here. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, we're going to continue with something we call the Soul Series on Monday night. There's a great, great interview that I've done with, uh, Dr. Jill Bolte Taylor. Her mind actually, as we mentioned last week. She lost the left hemisphere of her brain through stroke. And the right hemisphere was still working, so all of the chatter stopped and she was in bliss. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And she said, "Even though I was drooling, I was drooling, I was in" she, she was in heaven, she was in bliss. Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. I haven't used the terms right and left hemisphere in the book. I rarely use scientific terms, but that's how she sees it. I think she's right. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): The right hemisphere has to do with unitive knowing, but not conceptual. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. She said she felt the connection to all things. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. So here we are week nine and only one more class to go, and I bet so many people relate to this. "Many people," you say on page 262, "who were going through the early stages of awakening, are no longer certain what their outer purpose is." A woman from Milwaukee, Oregon, just wrote "Can you still be 52 years old and be in the same place Ivy was at the beginning of this show, not knowing what you want to do?" What drives the world, you say, no longer drives them. Seeing the madness of our civilization so clearly they may feel somewhat alienated from the culture around them. What do you do in this case if you're at this point in your life where reading this book has shaken you up and you realize more than ever what you don't want to do. You realize, "I have been on
the wrong course." You realize you have been awakening. Now what do you do? "I'm all awakened, now what?" ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Well, the awakening, of course, is the realization of your inner purpose primarily. So don't come into conflict with where you are now and what you're doing now. If you cannot surrender to what you're doing now and be okay with it, at least bring acceptance. We talk about this in the next chapter. At least bring acceptance to whatever you're doing now so that you're okay with it. That is vital. Then you are in a state of clarity. You enter a state of clarity when you are no longer in opposition to your present moment, life where you live or what you're doing. If you cannot surrender, whatever you're doing continuous to produce unhappiness in you, and no matter how hard you try, then of course it's a clear sign that you need to leave that situation. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So either you let go of the resistance and see if you can, and sometimes people say, "No, I can't," but all they really mean is they're not willing to. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Not willing to, which is very different. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So you need to see the difference between not being able to and not being willing to, whatever applies to you. "Am I not willing to accept this this moment? Am I truly incapable of accepting this moment?" If you found you're truly incapable of accepting this moment when you're doing your job or whatever you're doing, then this is a sign that it's time for change. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Got it. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Many times, you will be able to have this energy flow into what you're doing already and transform how you do, perhaps, what you've been doing for many years and is perhaps in a state of resistance, and suddenly how you do it changesyou're no longer doing it in a state of inner resistance. And then you bring a completely different energy into what you do. Consciousness rolls into what you do. And often, either this is deeply fulfilling and it affects many people around you, or it could also happen that now that you're no longer resisting what you do, change suddenly comes into your life. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I got that. This is a beautiful quote from page 266, you say that, "The great arises out of small things that are honored and cared for. Everybody's life really consists of small things. Greatness is a mental abstraction and a favorite fantasy of the ego. The paradox is that the foundation for greatness is honoring the small things of the present moment instead of pursuing the idea of greatness."
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's that one step. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That's right. So many people have this idea, "I want to achieve something great or be somebody great." And they neglect the step that leads to greatness. They don't honor this step at this moment because they have this idea of some future moment where they're going to be great. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And then it's surprising when you truly look at people perhaps who you would say have achieved great things, that even in their life, it's really is a sequence of small steps because every moment is quite small. You are wherever you are at this moment. Some people believe, not to mention you, some people believe I'm doing great work. I mean, I am because the consciousness is moving through this form. I don't feel personally responsible for what I do as such. But even there, it is small steps, when the writing happens, there's a notepad and a pen. And as the present moment and there's a stillness, very small. There's not some idea, "I'm going to create a work that's going to change everybody's consciousness." No, I'm just true to this moment. "What is this moment requires?" It's a blank sheet of paper and a pen and a stillness. It's a small thing. When I give a talk, talk maybe 2,000 people come. If I had this idea, "I'm now going to give an important big talk," that will lead to stress and fear because maybe it not going to be that great. So but if you can, with every step being present, the car comes to pick me up. If you stay into the car, sit in the car, the car moves toward the venue where the talk is going to be. I look out of the window, simple people walking past the tree and sky this moment. Step out, waiting in the green room to wait for the talk to start breathing. Simple. Nothing big, just a little moment, this moment being true to that. Then you step on to the stage, there's the empty chair, and I sit in it, still, breathe, and what else, 2,000 people there and also no word, no idea what isgoing to come out of his mouth. Be happy with not knowing. Still, not big. It's all small. It's all a sequence of very small moments, and by being true to the small moments, something great arises. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And the biggest lesson from tonight is by being true to the small moments, by being true to this moment, it means to bring the sense of presence, sense of consciousness to every single moment so that everything that you do is fueled from a deeper level than your ego. Everything you do is fueled from a deeper level than your thoughts. Everything you do is fueled from your being, and that is what gives meaning and purpose to whatever you do. That's the essence. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It's wonderful to see you when your power comes through your talk, it's beautiful. The words are so true. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you. Thank you everybody. I want to thank you for joining us tonight. As I said, next week will be our last class on A New Earth, the finale. But we don't want the discussion to end there. Pleases join me on Monday, May 12, for the start of my Soul Series just to continue this conversation for those of you who have been enjoying these webcasts here on Oprah.com. For the first time, we will be broadcasting the videotaped sessions of my XM Radio show. It's where I get to talk to spiritual teachers; I've been doing that for a couple years now. I talk to spiritual teachers, thinkers and scholars about my favorite subject: the evolution of the soul. People like Dr. Jill Bolte Taylor, Wayne Dyer, Elizabeth Lesser, Jon Kabat-Zinn, Byron Katie, Sarah Ban Breathnach, Kathy Freston and others. So keep Monday nights at 8 p.m. reserved for Oprah.com if you can get away from the five noisy boys or whatever's going on in your life. Tonight's class will be available on demand tomorrow for free here at Oprah.com. And if you want to download or watch any of our classes you can do that tomorrow also at Oprah.com and iTunes. It's free because of the generous support of Nature Made Softgel vitamins. This week you can update your workbook and get ready for our last class, Chapter 10, A New Earth, how to bring awareness to every moment of your life. There really is no higher calling. We're going to go for two hours next week for the benefit of wrapping up all the things we've been talking about in these past 10 weeks. This was great. Thank you. This is a good class. Thank you. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Good. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): We'll see you at number 10, coming up, number 10. Bye, everybody. Thanks for your message boards.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Tonight, we're coming to you with a special two-hour finale of our New Earth webcast series. For 10 weeks, we've all met every Monday night for a global conversation. It's been really quite special. A global conversation about consciousness from the UK to Hong Kong to Russia to all 50 states here in America. I just, again, want to say thank you to every one of you for helping us to create this new earth here with Eckhart Tolle and with me. So many of you have written to say that you want this forum to continue, so beginning next Monday, May 12, I hope you'll join me for the start of my Soul Series webcast here on Oprah.com. For the first time we'll be broadcasting the videotape sessions of my XM radio show. Many of you didn't know I have a radio show. Yeah, I have a day job, a night job, a middle job (inaudible). It's where I get to talk to spiritual teachers, and have been doing so for quite some time; spiritual teachers, and thinkers, and scholars about this, my favorite subject, the evolution of our souls. So keep Mondays reserved for Oprah.com. You can begin downloading next Monday. Tonight's the last chapter, Chapter 10 of A New Earth, and before we get started, let's begin with silence. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Would you like to lead us, sir? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): A moment of stillness. Now, as you know, you need to put your attention somewhere in order to find the stillness. The attention needs to move out of the dimension of thinking. So we've practiced in the past with putting our attention into the inner feeling of aliveness in the body. We've also, I believe, put our attention on our breath, and we've put our attention on sense perceptionswhatever we can see or hear outside. But this time we go one step further. And I suggest, this is a little bit more subtle, as we enter this moment of stillness, we put our attention on the fact that we are conscious. In other words, we become aware that there is a light in us, using "light" metaphorically, a presence, a space of awareness. That is pure attention. So instead of being aware of somethingour breath, or the inner body, or sense perceptionslet's just be aware that we are aware. You feel your own presence and become still. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Let's be aware we are aware. And become still. That was good. I think even Dean the stage manager became aware. He is aware, right, Dean? The themes of Chapter 10 are truly the culmination, I think, of what all of our work has been about. How to bring consciousness to every moment and to every action of our lives, and in the process learning that we are far greater than anything that we could have imagined ourselves to be. So we're going to get started. You talk about the brief history of your life on page 282. "The coming into manifestation of the world as its return to the unmanifestedits expansion and contraction." On the previous page, you talked about the earth expanding, the universe, really, expanding and contracting. "Those two movements are reflected throughout the universe in many ways such as in the incessant expansion and contraction of your heart, as well as in inhalation and exhalation of your breath. They are also reflected in the cycles of sleep and
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wakefulness. Each night, without knowing it," I love this, "you return to the unmanifested," capital S, "Source of all life when you enter the stage of deep, dreamless sleep, and then reemerge again in the morning, replenished. Those two movements, the outgoing and return, are also reflected in each person's life cycles. Out of nowhere, so of speak, "you" suddenly appear in this world. Birth is followed by expansion. There is not only physical growth, but growth of knowledge, activities, possessions. This is a time where you're mainly concerned with finding or pursuing your outer purpose. Each person's lifeeach life-form, in factrepresents a world, a unique way in which the universe experiences itself. And when your form dissolves, a world comes to an endone of countless worlds." I thought that was so beautiful. That's the bottom of page 283, everybody. "Each person's lifeeach life-form, in factrepresents a world, a unique way in which the universe experiences itself." So we are manifestations of the universe experiencing itself as each of us. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And that takes you out of this illusion that all you are is this limited little person. This ison the surface of things you are this person with a name and a form, but in the depths of your being, you are the universe experiencing itself in this form. And there's just this thought brings about a little shift in the way in which you perceive yourself. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And everybody else. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): We are the universe or the source of all life or the Creator or God, whichever name you choose to use, expressing itself in our particular form. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. In and through this form. So there's notpeople usually perceive themselves as being, "This is me and there's the universe." OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Or the world, and, "There's the me and the rest of the world." But you are the universe, you are the life, you're one life. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): We're not separate. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Not separate.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. "Each person's lifeeach life-formrepresents a world, a unique way in which the universe experiences itself. And when your form dissolves, a world comes to an endone of countless worlds." Wow. That's really powerful. So let's talk about the awakening and the return movement. What is the return movement in a person's life? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Usually, you start off with the outward movement. As you grow up and as you go into adolescence and adulthood, you start building your life, you acquire experiences, you acquire knowledge, you acquire possessions. Your sphere of influence extends, so there's the expansion. You grow, and usually that goes up to a certain age. It varies from person to person, unlessI talk about that alsounless the spirit of expansion is interrupted by some traumatic event. We can come to that a little bit later. So there's the expansion, and then when people reach a certain age, suddenly a different movement starts, thinks the body is no longer as strong, not working so well anymore. People around you begin to die; they reach a certain age. And so there's another movement that at some point comes into people's lives, which we could call the dissolution of form. It's gradually happening. And in our culture, we don't like to talk about that. And this is why most old people are hidden away in homes you rarely see. You have to go to Third World countries to really see the reality of human life. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): What it's like to grow older. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And also we have such a fear of it, and not just a fear, a disdain for it, so we do everything to make ourselves look younger. Everything is being looking younger, being younger. Younger, younger, younger. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Now, the return movement is also where the spiritual dimension can come into your life very strongly, when the form with which perhaps for many years you had been identified, which is the physical form and the form of my life or the things that you had built up and identified with, your job, your status, your profession, your possessions. And thatwhen that begins to become a little bit shaky, then it is very often at that point that there's the possibility for the spiritual dimension to come into your life. When the solidity of the outer forms becomes diminished. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So traditionallyand there's still thein India, for example, there's still a tradition when a man reaches a certain age, he withdraws from society. He sometimes evensome people still practice it, but not so many these days, he even leaves his family if he knows that his family is being looked after, he leaves and becomes a solitary mendicant or a monk in order to go deeply within. So that'sbut you don't need to do that. All we need to be aware is that when the return movement starts, when the forms that you had identified with begin to break down, that is a wonderful time for going back home for the return movement into spirituality so that you become aware of your own consciousness rather than what consciousness had identified with that was your life before. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You mean the form. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Form, yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And so it's sort of the return back to formlessness. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, but consciously. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Consciously. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It's the conscious return to see where"What is the source of my very being?" You could say it'syou're goingwhen the world begins to become shaky, then you go back to the source out of which it all came, which is God ultimately, God within, source within. So there's these two movements in a person's life. Now, in our civilization, the whole civilization OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): These two movements of the outgoing and the return home. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): The outgoing and the return. Now, our civilization is only interested, it seems, in the outgoing movement. People are interested in accumulating, in building up, in creating, making a life for yourself, being successful. Of course, that has its place. That's fine. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): What our civilization knows very little about is the return movement. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You say, "Then one day, you too disappear. Your armchair is still there. But instead of you sitting in it, there is just an empty space. You went back to where you came from
just a few years ago. Each person's lifeeach life-form, in factrepresents a world, a unique way in which the universe experiences itself. And when your form dissolves, a world comes to an endone of countless worlds. A return movement in a person's life, the weakening or dissolution of form, whether through old age, illness, disability, loss, or some kind of personal tragedy, carries great potential for spiritual awakening." That's why you say some older people become sort of luminescent. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Some. And others have a resistance against the return movement. The ego identifies with the weakening body, for example. And so negative inner states arise. People become angry, or bitter, or complain all the time, or talk about the past all the time. They resist what's happening. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, because they can't acceptthey can't accept, which we're going to talk about those three modalities: acceptance, enjoyment and enthusiasm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes. So here comes the acceptance ofwhen old age approachesthe acceptance that this can be also very beautiful if you're open to that. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You say, "Because in old age, the emphasis," the top of 286, everybody. "Because in old age, the emphasis shifts from doing to Being, and our civilization, which is lost in doing, knows nothing of Being. It asks: Being? What do you do with that?" What do you do with it; Being? Yeah. But the older you get, the more conscious you become that Being is of more value to you than doing. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Doing. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And the whole point of A New Earth is for everybody to realizeno matter what age you arethat being is of more value to us than doing. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And that it's only the being that you bring into your doing that matters.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And you don't have to wait for old age for this to happen. You can become conscious of this at any age, and then the way in which you interact with the world is very different. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. 287, "When the ego is no longer identified with the return movement in a person's life, old age or approaching death becomes what it's meant to be: an opening into the realm of spirit." And many times, obviously, you don't have to approach death in order to open into the realm of spirit as so many of you have told us in your message boards that this whole book is about opening to the realm of spirit. Okay. You say in A New Earth, "On the new earth, old age will be universally recognized and highly valued as a time for the flowering of consciousness." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. In a way, we lost it because that was already there in ancient cultures where old age was greatly honored. For example, in the Native American culture, a grandmother iswhen somebody's called a grandmother, it's a title of great distinction, and everybody has great respect for the grandmother because the grandmother embodies that wisdom. Not only wisdom, she also embodied the opening into the realm of spirit. The elder of a tribe, for example, they embody the opening into the realm of spirit, and through those old people, everybody can contact that realm, so it's very vital to have that. We lost it, and now we're going to find that again where old age is honored rather than looked down upon. So there's the grandmother, and I mention in the book, you have the grandmother of the Native American. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): In the first (inaudible). ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): In our civilization, you have the granny. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): They say the granny at best is cute. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): But there's no depth to that. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): To how we perceive it. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because we don't honor. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No. That dimension has virtually disappeared from our civilizationthe dimension of depth, the dimension of spirit, the dimension of the sacred, which is so vital for human life. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And what kind of effect does that have on us, not honoring that age and that which is sacred within the age and the depth of that? What kind of effect does that have on us? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Well, it means the whole dimension of spirit which is there is lost, so we all our life become completely superficial, and when life becomes completely superficial, you identify it with the surface movement of your life. And because of that lack of depth, people become very unhappy because there's only these, the surface of their life, possessions, achieving this or that, getting recognition. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And role-playing. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Role playing, ego. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And also what you call on page 289, I like this, "intelligent stupidity." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Intelligent stupidity. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Tell us what you mean by that. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Well, thean example I give is you need great intelligence to split the atom; to do that. But then what do we do with that? We create awe make an atom bomb, a destructive weapon out of something that could be a wonderful thing. So, on the one hand, humans seem very intelligent, and then what they do with that intelligence very often is extremely stupid. It becomes destructive OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. Because that's where intelligent stupidity comes in.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes. And that's because the dimension of spirit is missing. Intelligence that is not connected to the deeper dimension of awareness, of spirit, whatever you want to call it. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And being. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Is very destructive. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Sooner or later, it becomes destructive. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. I love what you say on page 290. This isyou know, I've read the book now several times. That's why this should be your new summer read, everybody, because when you go back and read it again, you will find things that you didn't experience the first time. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That'srepeated reading is very helpful. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Or a second time. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Or the third time. This is what I got the otherjust yesterday I was reading it once again, this chapter. "Struggle or stress is a sign that the ego has returned, as are negative reactions when we encounter obstacles." So whenever you encounter obstacles in your life, it is because your ego is forefront; at the forefront. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. It doesn't mean that you don't encounter challenges in your life. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): But to make them intoif you consider a challenge an obstacle that you need to fight against, that means the ego is there. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. This is 290. "The force behind the ego's wanting creates 'enemies,' that is to say, reaction in the form of an opposing force equal in intensity." That's what an enemy is. "The stronger the ego, the stronger the sense of separateness between people. The only
action," this is one of my favorite quotes. I love this. "The only," see, I've underlined it three times. "The only actions that do not cause opposing reactions are those that are aimed at the good of all." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. So you no longer separate yourself and say, "This is my." You consider in whatever you do, you consider the totality or the whole, not just my little needs. "But how do I fit into the totality?" And so then this is notno longer karmic action which produces suffering. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. "We are also learning that action, although necessary, is only a secondary factor in manifesting our external reality. The primary factor in creation is consciousness. No matter how active we are," I love this, "how much effort we make, our state of consciousness creates our world, and if there's no change on that inner level, no amount of action will make any difference." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. In other words, what you do is always secondary. Who you are is primary. And that means not who you are in the eyes of the world or who you are in whatever image you might have about yourself, but whether you are connected within yourself, with that dimension of being, spirit, or consciousness. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You say it beautifully 294, it's "not what you do, but how you do what you do determines whether you are fulfilling your destiny." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's not what you do, but how you do it. And by that you mean the amount of presence or consciousness you bring to whatever you do. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Another aspect of that is whether whatever you are doing at any given moment, even the most, what the mind would say, "Some insignificant thing, are you doing it in presence or is it just a means to an end because you want to get to some future moment?" OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Just a simple example you could give. You can go to a restaurant and the way in which the waiter puts the plate on your table can be present and conscious, and immediately you will be affected by that. Sometimes, it happens that you have a waiter who is conscious. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And with care and attention he or she puts the table there, the plate in front of you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And you can sense a very different energy from a waiter who is just doing his or her job. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Absolutely. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And he just puts it down. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And that's in every aspect. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's going through the toll booth; that's picking up your laundry. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Everything. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's standing in line for french fries. That's everything. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): People either bring their presence or they don't. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And often, it's a useful thing to remember to check inside yourself to see whether you are making whatever you are doing at this moment, whether it's primarily a means to an end because you want to get somewhere else through what you are doing, or whether you are you giving it your fullest attention. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I think you're going to have a generation of children growing up with unconscious parents because I recognize this with myself. I've been guilty of it. Since the BlackBerrys. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): If you're riding in a car with friends or you're any place with friends, everybody, instead of talking now, everybody's on their BlackBerrys to see who else is calling. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, I've been wondering what they are doing when they go like that. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Oh, this is where everybody's writing everybody. You'reinstead of talking to the people who are there with you, you're writing to the people who are not there to see what they have to say. That's what everybody's doing. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Oh yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And many times, people are now on their cell phones or they're on their BlackBerrys, and their kids are coming into the room, and nobody even looks up. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And you're not experiencing reality that is around you. You're not experiencing the fullness of life around you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That is correct. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And what you are experiencing is a mental abstraction which is little letters that you're putting in there. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It's just mental abstraction. You're not even communicating truly with the person that you're sending the message to because the communication is two or three times removed. You're just sending little ciphers to them. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. Well, we're going to get into the three modalities of awakening where you say that unless you are at any given time having acceptance, enjoyment or enthusiasm for whatever you're doing, you should stop doing it. Because if you're not accepting the moment, enjoying the moment or having enthusiasm for the moment, then you are in one way or another causing suffering. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, it's a dysfunctionalyour inner dysfunctional state. You're not aligned with the present moment, you're not aligned with yourself, you're not aligned with life. Completely dysfunctional, and then you
generate psychic disharmony around you, you make yourself unhappy. Already you're unhappy when you're OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right, cause you can't accept the present moment. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And the unhappiness spreads because when you're unhappy, others around you, you make them unhappy too. It spreads like a disease. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, I think, you know, as we here are already in Chapter 10, one of the biggest issues that I've heard so many people talk about, and last week a friend of mine started emailing me saying that how, you know, that she was following the classes and that it's very easy to have this resonate with you, but then when you have to go out into the world and actually deal with people, then it starts to get difficult. And that friend is Skyping us today who is an actress, who played my daughter in the movie Beloved. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Oh. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. She's my baby girl. Kimberly Elise played my baby girl. Hello, Kimberly. KIMBERLY ELISE: Hi. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Hi. Who's been reading the book? Kimberly's been reading the book and following the webcasts. And we were, I was trying to e-mail back and forth explaining this in e-mail and as Eckhart says, e-mails are, you know, not a full form of communication when you're trying to express these ideas. So go at it, Kimberly. KIMBERLY ELISE: Okay. So yes, as I was telling Oprah, it's been really exciting and enlightening to discuss in theory all the different concepts and ideas in the book. And it's been attainable here in this loving cocoon which I live in and my book club members live in. But once you go out into the real world and have real-life situations, you're presented with challenges because not everybody's read the book; not everybody's on this journey; not everybody is striving to evolve or have awareness. A simple example, one of the book club members works for a very egotistical boss and is very sort of pushed and has unrealistic demands put upon her, and she's managed to sort of pull herself above it, become witness to the ego she's dealing with and the ego within herself. And, as a consequence, she's been perceived as sort of lax and dispassionate and disengaged in everything that's going around because everybody else is so in the drama, and she feels her job could be at stake because she's being viewed this way. That's just an example. So, my question is, if we're in the process of evolving our state of consciousness, moving away from our egos and getting closer to our true selves, how do we manage, how, how, how do we manage to maintain this level of elevation when you're forced in the real world
to live and work with people who come from a strictly egotistical place and don't understand this awareness level and really can perceive you as being weak? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Good. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Good questions. Good. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Now, let's see what Eckhart has to say. KIMBERLY ELISE: Okay. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So youwe are gradually learning to live from a different state of consciousness. Now, you cannot expect to be necessarily to be a master when you meet difficult people and already to be fully in that state of presence. It's a gradual process where you bring presence into your life. And as you invite presence into your life, and at first don't evendon't even practice with the difficult boss, leave him alone for a while, first you invite presence into your life with small things. When you're at home, one little movement, making tea, makingopening the curtains as you get up, looking out of the window without any judgment. Just perceiving the light, the clouds. Bring, as much as possible, presence into your life in simple situations. When you get into your car, you get in, close the door. Be quiet for 20 seconds, 30 seconds. Feel the inner body. Many opportunities are there. Whenever you're waiting, I talk about that in both books, I believe, whenever you're waiting for something or someone, drop the waiting and be present, be fully there, fully alert, fully accepting of that moment rather than wanting some other moment. And, gradually, you grow in presence power; a presence power grows in you. And whenas presence power grows in you, you can begin to apply it to slightly challenging situations which normally would have triggered, for example, some slight irritation. And there you can observe, "Oh, there's the old reaction" as you're waiting in line at the supermarket. And you can see the irritation with the cashier or whoever is there ahead of you. You can immediately be aware of that and see, well, what'sit has no useful function. "It does nothing except make me unhappy." You can then let go of it and be clear and free and present at that moment. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. I think too, Kim, that one of the things that we all want when you read this and you feel so great, it's like sort of being, you know, when you feel so enthusiastic and you want everybody to get it as you get it, it's like developing spiritual muscle. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's like developing spiritual muscle. You can't go out and lift, you know, the 50-pound weight unless you've also lifted the 25-pound weight and the 10-pound weight. And so you have to start developing the muscle with things that you are more comfortable with, and
once you've developed a strong enough muscle, the bosses becomethe unruly bosses become easier to handle. In the beginning, you just can't say, "I'm going to go out, I'm going to apply this principle and expect it to work" because you have to have the inner strength in which to deal with it. And also it comes from a greater awareness, I think, having had unruly bosses in my early years. It comes from a greater awareness of what your real purpose in life is. I remember being in Baltimore in the early days of my career, having a boss who was a complete jerk, who was just a complete jerk. I would like to use another word for it, but I'll just leave it ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Of course, that's not his true self, but that's all just heavy overlay. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. Having a boss whose true self was love and innocence and had a wonderful presence, but he ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Heavy overlay. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Heavy overlay was the ego self that he showed daily was a complete jerk. Something inside me knew I wasn't going to be there forever. KIMBERLY ELISE: Ah. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I knew that I could tolerate it, I could deal with it, I could handle it, I could, you know, my place in it was notI knew he ultimately had no power over me, that I needed to do what was necessary for this particular time in my life. But inside myself I knew. Trouble don't last always. And I will not, this is not going to be the course of my life. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): This too will pass. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): This too will pass. I knew that this too will pass. And so I could go into the space every day doing what needed to be done, as perhaps maybe your friend needs to do. Doing what needs to be done and could do the thing that everybody else couldn't understand. I could offer, give that person what they thought they needed. I could give themI could create the space for them to be an evento show themselves to be whoever their ego at that particular time, you know, wanted to be. You see what I'm saying? KIMBERLY ELISE: I do. I do. So as you're at that higher level of awareness, you're able to look at a situation and see it as just a situation, but not your entire life, your entire future. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Not my entirenot your entire life because that person, ultimately, I knew, "I'm going to be here for a time. I need to learn this much here, and then I'm going to be gone."
KIMBERLY ELISE: And do you believe that there are just some people in this lifetime who will not get to this level of awareness? And that you just really have to focus on yourself. And OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, but that's what I said to you. That's what I was saying to you in the e-mail. That's not your job to worry about what other people are going to do. Your only role is to concern yourself with yourself. Isn't that true? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, oh, yes, yes, yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So, in one thing, as we said, and Oprah called it "spiritual muscle," and I called it "growing in presence power," it's the same thing, so presence builds up gradually. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): In the meantime, you can still practice even in difficult situations. It might sometimes work even if the spiritual muscle is not yet highly developed. If you can remember just the little pointer, the little phrase, "Am I able to accept this moment as it is?" And if moment comes in the form of this obnoxious person, then the question is, "Can I accept this obnoxious person at this moment?" OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "Can I accept this obnoxious person at this moment?" ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Because whatever arises in the present moment, "Can I be the space for this?" OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. And if you're able to remove your ego from it, if you're able to take your ego out of it, then it becomes just what it is. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): What you were saying, Kim, it becomes just another situation. If you can take your ego out of it, or your friend take the ego out of it, so it's not personal. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's not personal at all. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. That's what I learned how to do. KIMBERLY ELISE: So we can really take these opportunities that are so challenging as little gifts and opportunities to grow ourselves. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Not only that, it is the truethat is the spiritual path. You know, we had talked at a previous class about how everybody has their cross to bear, and the truth is that when you confront an obnoxious boss or in difficult situations, therein lies your opportunity to build the spiritual muscle. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): To build, or create, or allow presence to come through in a way that you get to show who you are instead of being worried about what the other person is doing. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So difficult people or ego-controlled people have a very important spiritual function in this world. Eventually, they will become so unhappy that will also go beyond that. But in the meantime, they are there foras practice material for others. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right. Because if everything was wonderful all the time, you would have no practice, no way to practice. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): There would be no growth. KIMBERLY ELISE: That's a good way to look at it. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Hey, I love your house, Kim; I hadn't seen your new house. How nice. KIMBERLY ELISE: No, I know you haven't. See my dog? OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Oh, my gosh, you have a dog and a fireplace. Very cool.
KIMBERLY ELISE: Yeah. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Very cool, BG. Talk to you soon. KIMBERLY ELISE: Bye. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Byebye. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Bye. Very nice. Interesting about the practicing of the spiritual muscle. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Now, notice when I was calling my former boss a jerk, and you said, "That's not who he is." Do you never encounter obnoxious people in your life? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Oh, no, you do, I encounter obnoxious people. It's a question of looking OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Do you have only love for them? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Not necessarily, no, no. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay, good. Okay. But it's a question of what did you say? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Of whether one is able to look through this overlay of ego or heavy pain-body, which can be very strong, whether you're able to go through that, and it's very hard to describe this process. When you are not judging the person mentally, not calling him or her anything, you still know that this person is obnoxious, you know that. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): You know still know that this person is controlled by the ego. You know it. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Even without formulating a concept in your mind.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And sobut you also know that beyond there there's a being. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That is pure and innocent and as close to God as anybody. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): As anybody. Okay. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So is it possible to look through the ego in others? OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, but, Eckhart, you still don't have to want to deal with that person. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No. You may want to remove yourself. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And if youif that is possible, then that often is the best thing to do. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right. Because you can still say, "I can bless you in your beingness." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, and OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "But what you're showing me now is not what I want to deal with." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No. Or you can walk out of a job if it's insane. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): The environment is insane and the more present you are, the more certain you will be. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): About what to do.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Of what to do. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Absolutely. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): But theand we talked about this in one of the sessions, the realization of what you have to do comes from a powerful but peaceful place if you are present. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes, that's right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So when you're walking out of the office, you're not walking out in anger when it comes through presence. You're walking out, you're peaceful with everyone and say, "That's it; I'm walking out of here." OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's it. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): There's power but no negativity. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right, I got that. I got that. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And so that's beautiful when that happens. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): When to say, "I have had enough." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "I have had enough." And that comes from your inner purpose. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): As opposed to your outer. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE):
Now, there may be other situations when you're forced, for some reason you are forced intonow, an extreme example is that you're in an elevator and the elevator gets stuck. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And there you are with an obnoxious person for one hour in the elevator or some people are stuck with somebody for some reason, they can't go, leave the situation, you may be in the presence of OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Or lots of people learn they have to keep jobs. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Where they are dealing with bosses who are obnoxious. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That's right. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, as we just heard Kimberly say. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You have to keep a job; you have to earn a living for yourself and your family. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, and there's a question of accepting that this is where this person is at without getting into reactivity. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And resisting it. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Resisting it. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yeah. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I did it the right way. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because I was in that situation for quite a long time. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And literally wouldjust accepted it. And I would have friends say, "How can you put up with that? How can you tolerate that?" Because I know this too shall pass. Trouble doesn't last always. I won't be here forever. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Intuitively you did that. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Intuitively I knew that I wasn't going to be there forever. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. I remember the same reading your friend Maria Shriver wrote a book, and she describes her early, some of her early bossesdreadful. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes, yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): But somehow she was able to just say, "That's how it is." She also knew she going to be there for the rest of her life. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Wasn't going to be there forever. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): But for the time being, she kind of (inaudible) accepted OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): This is what I need to do. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right. Kippy is an American who teaches gifted students at an elementary school on a U.S. Air Force base outside Tokyo, Japan, and she's Skyping us from her home office with a reading group she started after hearing about our Web classes. Is ithow do you say hello in Japanese? Is it konichiwa? GROUP: Konichiwa. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Konichiwa.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Konichiwa. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Konichiwa. And the same to you. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Moshi moshi. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Moshi moshi. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Only on the telephone. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Hi. Kippy, let's start with you. What is your question? KIPPY: Okay. Eckhart, on page 301, you wrote, "Enthusiasm means there's a deep enjoyment at what you do, plus the added element of a goal or vision that you work toward." My question is, is how can we have goals or visions if we are to always remain in the present? OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Good question. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Good, yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Good question. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. KIPPY: Thank you. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So the goal or vision when it's inside you as if it were already a reality and in fact on some level it is a reality inside you already. So a goal that is powerful when you are in touch with your own power is not a goal that you project yourself mentally to and say, "I would like to achieve this or that at some future point, I need that, I want that to complete myself." You're reaching out toward that goal; you're losing yourself; you're not present. But if you areif you realize that whatever vision you hold is already a reality inside you, I give an example now in The Power of Now, before I ever wrote the book, I had this vision of that that book was already on some level already there, had already been written. And so I felt all I'm doing is I'm externalizing what's already there. I had this strong inner feeling that the book already exists inside me. I saw it as a reality already. I didn't try to achieve writing a book. The book was already there, and all then I had to do was be open to this energy movement coming from within, to manifest what was already there on a deeper level. And that's why Jesus said whenever you asked for anything, "Believe that you already have received it, and it will be yours." So if you believe that
you already have received it, it means it must bealready be a reality inside yourself so you're not coming from lack or scarcity or neediness because then you are not, there's no power behind your vision or your goal. You're already coming from fullness. So the goal is already a reality inside. You already feel as if you had it. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It's already a reality and what you feel about it is the fullness that is already there in the present moment. And then you don't lose yourself, then you are fully there as you begin to respond to this inner impulse, you manifest it in your life in the present moment. So it's not a future thing really. A powerful goal when you visualize, a powerful goalyou're not visualizing in order to achieve something in the future, you're visualizing in order to bring something out that's already inside you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Wow. That's powerful, but I can understand why a lot of people would be confused by it because then how do you ever achieve anything in the future? Isn't that what you're saying too, Kippy? KIPPY: Right. Right. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): How do you ever achieve anything in the future? Say, I want to be an actress. There are a lot of people I know at the Bodhi Tree who we're going to, you know, talk to later. A lot of people at the Bodhi Tree who, you know, have day jobs, but what they really wantI want to be an actress. That's a future goal, I want to be an actor or actress, or I want to get a job working for, you know, a major corporation. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): How do you, you know, how can you not hold that as a vision for yourself? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): You can. But what you're visualizing is not yourself in some future state, the power that is there inside you that will manifest externally in time and in the future is already there. Get in touch with the power. What would it feel like if you were an actress already successful? What does that feel like inside you? And where does the power come from with which you can make a difference in people's lives when you are doing something like that? Where does the power reside? OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, because you say, instead of saying "I want to be a great actress" is "How do I use this talent to manifest in such a way that causes people to feel a certain way?" ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So it's already a reality inside you, and then you can take steps toward implementing that. But it comes from fullness rather than neediness. The mistake is not finding the place of power that is in the present moment, and believing that something else that is not in the present moment is going to bring you to the place of power. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It won't. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. I just got it, Kippy. I just got it. What, whatI just go it. What he's saying is, is that whatever goal that you have or vision that you have must come from the place of being or consciousness. And if it comes from a place of being or consciousness and not as an external goal that you have for yourself, I think I'm getting it right, right? If it comes from being or consciousness, then it comes through you out into the world instead of you reaching out into the world saying, "This is what I want for myself." And so all thingsand I can use the example of myself. I have always wanted to do exactly what I'm doing here with all of you tonight. I've always felt that deep inside me this is what I was meant to do. I was meant to be a teacher, I was meant to use television as a platform for helping people to better know themselves. And whenand knowing that, knowing that deep inside myself is what has helped bring this into fruition this way, instead of saying, you know, "One day I want to have a webcast and have a million people on the webcast." Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You see what I'm saying? KIPPY: I do, yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That it comes from the inner part of you. There's a feeling that comes from the consciousness part of yourself, the being of yourself that says, "This is what I now need to do." And that's why you were saying it doesn't matter what you do. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's how you do what you do. And it doesn't matter what you do, everything that you do has to be fueled by consciousness or the spirit of God, which is another way of saying it, by consciousness or the spirit of God, otherwise, it has no real meaning in your life.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And the place of power is in the present moment. That's a vital thing is you can only touch that power in the present moment. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So if you're not OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And so you said last week it's about this step, the step today that it takes to get to the next step, then the next step, and the next step, and the next step. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You don't get there by thinking, let me, you know. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No. And even if you're doing something at the moment that life has given you that doesn't seem to be part of your vision. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Your vision. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Let's say you're working in a restaurant but your vision is being a great artist. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Manifest, yeah. You still need to honor whatever it is that you're doing at this moment fully and completely. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Because it may, some way it may arise out of that. That may also be part of it. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right. Because every step leads you to the direction. It's the means and not the end that counts. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's the means and not the end. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, excellent. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You follow that, right, Kip? KIPPY: I do, thank you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Anybody else want to say anything there? Hi, ladies. GROUP: Hi, Oprah. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): What time is it in Tokyo right now? Is it another day already? KIPPY: It's already, yes. We are living on Tuesday. FEMALE: 10, yeah. KIPPY: Tuesday morning. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Oh, Tuesday. KIPPY: 10:45. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Well, so in Tokyo it's tomorrow, it's not the now. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So, does Tokyo KIPPY: Yes (inaudible). OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Eckhart made a funny. KIPPY: And you'll have beautiful weather tomorrow. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Oh, okay. Tokyo, it's tomorrow, it's not now. All right. Thank you guys so much. GROUP: Thank you.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Thank you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Wow, that's interesting because everything always come back to that same point of whatever sense of presence, or being, Holy Spirit, spirit of God, whatever you choose to call it, namebecause "it" doesn't have an ego so it doesn't get hung up on what it's being calledthat when you bring that into your life, it fuels everything that you do. And as you said last week, the evolutionary impulse of the universe rises up to meet you. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes, yes. And so the question to ask yourself, it's a very simple question, "Am I okay with the present moment?" You need to be deeply okay with the present moment to find the power of the present moment, which is your own power or the power of the universe or the power of God. "Am I okay?" If you're not okay with the present moment, let's say you work in a restaurant, but while you're working in a restaurant, you would rather be somewhere else, you're not empowered. You're only empowered that even while you're working in the restaurant, and for some people that's their life purpose to work in a restaurant and to spread that presence through whatever they do, people they meet there, and that's beautiful. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. And what you're saying in this book is is that whatever you do, wherever you do, whatever you do can have deep meaning and purpose to it, and for the rest of the world if you bring your presence to it. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes, yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. And we all have encountered that, the difference between people whether it's a waiter or the toll booth operator or, you know. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes. In all this. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): In every one of our life circumstances. Okay, Elzbieta is joining us from Poland. Did I pronounce your name correctly tonight? ELZBIETA: Very well, yes, Elzbieta. Hello. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Elzbieta. Where she's been down loading all of the webcasts. Hello? Is it (inaudible)? Hello? ELZBIETA: Can you hear me?
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. Yes, I can. ELZBIETA: Oh fantastic. I want to thank you both for this extraordinary webcast, the greatest book club I've ever seen. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, thank you. What's your question? ELZBIETA: I'd like to ask Eckhart to comment on a certain quote from a philosopher Alan Watts, if I may. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, please, go ahead. ELZBIETA: Later I will also have a question, if possible. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Go ahead, okay, go ahead. ELZBIETA: There's a second pause, that's why it's a little strange. So the quote is from the book On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are. "The most strongly enforced of all known taboos is the taboo against knowing who or what you really are behind the mask of your apparently separate, independent, and isolated ego." Could you please comment on that? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Well, the taboo is not a taboo that'sit's not called a taboo, but our civilization is ignorant of that dimension, and our civilization, to a large extent, is still run by the ego. And the ego does not want to know about the deeper dimension of spirit; it feels threatened by that. The ego likes, perhaps to have an ideology and call that spiritual, it has a rigid belief system and says that is spiritual and identifies with that and calls other people "enemies" or "evil" who don't agree with that belief system. Butso the ego feels threatened by the spiritual dimension within the human being. And it will do unconsciously anything to sabotage the arising of the spiritual dimension in our culture, in civilization, or in human beings. And so you see these are unconscious reactions. Some people say that what we're doing is evil. These are unconscious reactions, again, by the ego to protect itself. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Wow. You mean some people say what we're doing here is evil. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): But theI don't know how it is possible because bringing people to greater presence and peaceful way to live, how that can be evil, I don't know, but somehow they work it out in their minds OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. That this is evil. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yeah. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And so this isit's an unspoken taboo. There are no laws against spirituality but the taboo is unspoken. It's underneath the surface of things and the taboo has been created by the egoic civilizations that we inhabit. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you. ELZBIETA: Yes, that's very clear to me too, but I think that even though I don't know what'swrote, I don't know, 30, 40 years ago, it still rings true, unfortunately. So my question actually is for those who misinterpret your teachings, could you clarify, do you consider your teachings to be a religion? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Certainly not. It's not a religion, it is spiritual, which means this teachingthe truth of it can be applied within any religion or within no religion. The teaching is in essence spiritual, it's not based on belief systems, it's not based on thoughts, it's based on becoming present and still, and whether you are Muslim, or Christian, or Buddhist, or OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Atheist. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Atheist, it can be applied in your life. The transformation of consciousness does not depend on your belief system. But it is possible, of course, if you have a rigid belief system, it can stop you fromthe belief system can sabotage a transformation. But it does not dependthe transformation does not depend on whatever belief system you have. Certain belief systems are so rigid that they represent a barrier. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): What do you say to those people though? I mean, I think that was one of the questions that somebody has tonight about other people who think that what you have written and what we have done here in communicating with people around the world about what you've written is evil. What do you say to that?
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Well, probably most of them have never looked at the book. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And many of them probably have never listened in to the webcast. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So, because if they truly read a few pages in the book, they would see that there's absolutely nothing that would be interpreted as evil. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): As evil. As evil. Thank you, Elzbieta, thank you so much. ELZBIETA: I agree absolutely. Oprah, can I also share an aha! moment? OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Sure, please. Show an aha! Share an aha!, yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, please. ELZBIETA: That would go back to the first chapter on page 12 where Eckhart writes about, "Fear, greed, or the desire for power are not the dysfunction but are created by the dysfunction, which is a deep-seated collective delusion that lies within the mind of each human being," end of quote. I think that this is, well, there's lots of great stuff in the book and there's an aha! almost on every page, but this one is very important I think because it seems to me, seeing through the delusion can only, when we can see through the delusion can we be really free of fear, greed, and desire for power, which we all share I'm afraid. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you, Elzbieta, thank you for sharing that all the way from Poland tonight. Thank you so much. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Thank you. Thank you very much. ELZBIETA: Thank you so much. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Thank you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you. Beth from Green Bay, Wisconsin, sent in an e-mail that caught my attention a few weeks back. I thought it would be great to Skype with her for this last chapter. Hi, Beth. BETH: Hi, Oprah. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Hi. BETH: Hi, Eckhart. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Hi. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Why don't you read us your e-mail? BETH: Okay. Okay, I e-mailed in, "I've been working on 'this too shall pass,' and I've noticed it's much easier to accept this in my own life situation than it is for the world's life situation. For example, I can't be cavalier about teenagers beating each other for video content on the internet. I can't condone 13year-old girls having spiritual weddings to much older men, and I cannot just accept that human beings will be tortured and killed for having a different religion, nationality or skin color. Why is it so much easier to say that's no big deal for me than it is for rest of the world? Why can't I let go of this global anger?" OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You have global anger. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That's a good word. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's a good word for it. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Many people have that. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But I was going to say you're going to be angry for a very long time if you're going to carry that around, but go ahead. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So have you already dropped anger on a personal level in your own life, being angry at people around you that you experience personally? BETH: Very rarely do I get angry at anyone else anymore. Mostly it's my kids, but that's just part of their growing up. I'm able to see that why they're doing what they're doing.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. BETH: And have some compassion for them. It's just on a larger scale. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Ah, okay, yes, compassion there's an important word. I also noticed in your question you used the word "condone," which perhaps may be synonymous in your mind with acceptance. Condone means to say it's okay to behave in such a way, and this is not what acceptance is about. Acceptance is to see, to simply see what is and to say, "This is what is right now. This is how these humans behave; this is what they're doing right now. This is what is." And no matter what you think or whathow will you judge that, you cannot argue with the fact that this is what is. And that's all acceptance is. It doesn't mean, "It's okay. I condone it. There's nothing wrong with it." It's to come to an inner acceptance of the is-ness of life right now. And then you can look and then you can see once you come to an acceptance of what is, you also see that yes, it is mad. You can see it is mad. You can come to a place of compassion when you see that all these people are unconscious; they don't know what they are doing. And then you can see evil. I mean, there's vast amounts of evil still happening on the planet which means suffering that humans inflicting on other humans, on other life forms, on the planet itself, on nature. All that you can see as manifestations of ignorance; spiritual ignorance, unconsciousness, ego, collective ego. And so once you see that, you can come to a place of compassion for those people who are still controlled by ego and who are acting unconsciously. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And also doesn't it come to that phrase about accepting the things you cannot change, changing the things you can, and having the wisdom to know the difference? And the truth of everything that we've been saying in these past two weeks, Beth, for you and everyone else, is that you begin to change the world by first changing yourself. And so the angerall of us are putting energy into the world. All of us are putting energy out into the world, and you raise the level of consciousness when you bring consciousness and presence to whatever it is you do. That's how you begin to change the world. In your home, right nowwhat room are you in right now? BETH: This is the spare bedroom. We call it the home office. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay, in your home office with your children and your actions every day, being less angry in your personal life really helps defuse it in the rest of the world. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And people don't see that as a big deal, but if everybody did that, it would be diminished. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. You're connected on an unseen level with all other humans.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And whatever energy you put out contributes to that particular vibration in the collective energy field of humanity. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Correct. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So if you're putting out anger, then that connects with all the collective anger that is floating around on the planet, which is vast. It connects and feeds the collective anger. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. And so isn't each of usisn't it for each of us, we're asked to do that which we can do. I mean I feel this every time I go to Africa that it's really easy to get overwhelmed by all of the massive problems, you know, encountered in that country. You can get easily overwhelmed, and so the thing to do is to focus on that which you can change, that which you can have some impact on, and do that as well as you can. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): One little thing perhaps, one thing that might seem insignificant, and you can make a change there. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But everything is significant depending on what presence you bring to it. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That's right, yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Beth, I hear you've made some big changes since reading A New Earth, tell us about them. BETH: Oh yes. Actually, I picked up A New Earth after my grandmother passed away in January. But some things have been happening along the line that I didn't really understand what was going on. I left a job that wasn't that good for me in November, I was able to spend more time with my grandmother, and we both prepared ourselves for her passing. I quit smoking. I started running. I eat healthy foods. It'sI'm not even sure who I am anymore. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And that's a good thing.
BETH: Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's a good thing. But I think the key word here is what Eckhart had said earlier; accepting what is going on in the world isn't the same thing as condoning it. Because there are a lot of terrible things going on in the world. BETH: No, I know. And I don't know if it's because I've been a mom for so long, it's just I want to put myself maybe as a shield in front of some of these people to offer them some protection. And I don't know if that's my own ego, but it doesn't feel like it's my ego. It's like, you know, "You people don't deserve this. You deserve to have a better life. You're 13, 14 years old. It's not time for you to have a baby." OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Are you talking about the polygamist story on the news? BETH: Yeah, yeah. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. Okay. That's none of your business right now. What's your business is what's going on in your house right now, Beth. BETH: Yeah, and I'm happy to hear Eckhart says that grandmothers are going to be respected because I'm going to be a grandmother in July. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, I don't know if they'll be respected by July, but we are working on it. We're working on it, okay. Thanks for that e-mail. Thank so much. BETH: Thank you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I think we've got some work to do if we're going get ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Maybe just OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): If we're going to get old age respected by July, we got to bet busy. We got to sell some more books. Thanks, Beth. We have a caller from France on the line. Michele lives in Paris, has a question. MICHELE: Yes, hello, Oprah and Eckhart.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Hello. Is it bonjour, bonsoir? MICHELE: I actually have a million questions, but I'm only going to ask one. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. MICHELE: One that's actually troubled me for a long time and I think I can sum it up with a quote from the Bible. "It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of heaven." And for me, I see the rich man as someone who is full of ego and full of mind which can never enter into consciousness. And this relates to me and to my question because I have a very strong and active mind. And it's my greatest asset, perhaps, but it's also my Achilles heel. And when I can reach a place of stillness or awakening, my mind wants to participate. It wants to own the experience. And, at some point, it always succeeds in bringing form to the experience, turning it into a concept, trying to understand it, trying to link it with past experiences. And so you think about this space between ego and awareness, and I need to develop that space, I need to be able to step further back from my mind. And it's very difficult because the mind's also very cunning and it deceives me even into believing that I'm actually in that space. What can I do, how can I work on this dilemma? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Well, the mind cannot recognize that space. It doesn't know anything about it; it's completely meaningless to the mind. From what you're saying, I can see you already are able to enter that space. For how long it doesn't matter, but you are already able to have that inner space of stillness inside you, and your mind is almost denying that experience, certainly resisting it. So, first of all, the recognition that the most important thing, which is the initial disidentification from the process of thinking, has already happened inside you. That first disidentification from thinking and encountering that dimension of presence or stillness inside yourselfthat has already happened. Now, the mind is not happy with it. It doesn't want to go there, or it judges it in some way, or the mind says, "Oh, I," wants to interpret it in some way, all you need to be there is rather than fighting the mind or your thought processes, to recognize thoughts that arise as thoughts. And it's from the place of stillness or spaciousness inside you that can recognize when thoughts come and say this or that about stillness or whatever you should be doing something else or whatever they say. You recognize these as just another thought and another thought. And when you recognize a thought as a thought, it does no longerit no longer has this power to pull your attention in completely. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And so the important thing is not the fact that your mind is highly developedthat can be quite useful at some point when you're not identified with it. You can use your highly developed mind in the service of awareness, in the service of spirit, and that's fine. But in the meantime, it's not being drawn into
every thought that arises or even fighting a thought and saying, "Go away, I want to be still." That doesn't work either. You recognize MICHELE: Seeing it as a threat, I'm giving it power. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes. You recognize the mind as mind. You recognize thinking as thinking. So, you can then choose to be present when you're walking out in nature, for example, or when you're sitting alone in your room. You choose to be present, and then you will notice the mind will occasionally try to come in and do or say something about it or something totally different that says, "You should be thinking about something else that's more important than this." And then you can recognize these thoughts as just another thought that arises. You can even say to yourself, "Oh, there's another thought." And then you get still again. Another thought comes, "Oh, there comes another" Not to give every thought that arises this importance so that it draws you in because the mind wants to do that; it wants all your attention because it's had all your attention for such a long time. So it's a habit pattern of the mind, it wants to draw in your attention and all you do is you take your attention out of the mind. So that's thereally is the process. Thoughts isthe mind is not the enemy. You would never win that fight against the mind if you made the mind into an enemy. The mind is like a little restless child, you could say, or a restless puppy that goes about and then you say, "Oh, it's justit's nothing, it's not a big deal." OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. And as we all get, you know, build our spiritual muscle here, we become more and more conscious of our consciousness. And recognize when the thoughts are just playing in your mind, and I'm sure that's started to happen to you already, Michele. You just said, "Oh, there's a thought, there's another one, there's another thought." I mean, I would have to say over the 10 weeks that we've been doing this course, I've become really, really more skilled at "I will think about that later." Sort of like Scarlett O'Hara. I won't think about that now, I'll think about that later, because this is now, I want to be present with whatever's going on this moment, so I'll deal with that at a later time when I choose to set aside time for thinking about that particular thing instead of just letting my thoughts rule everything all the time. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes. MICHELE: Exactly. I've been putting much too much effort into keeping my thoughts at bay. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Right, right. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, just say
MICHELE: Looking at them for what they are then. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Just look at it and go, "There's another thought. There it is again." And then the effort should be in keeping yourself in the moment, where to be. You know, my mantra is, "Be here, be now. Be here, be now. Be here; be now with whatever is going on." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes, that's good, yes. MICHELE: Absolutely, yeah. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Be here, be now. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you so much. MICHELE: Wonderful, wonderful. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thanks, Michele. MICHELE: Thank you so much. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Thank you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Bonsoir. MICHELE: Thank you. Bonsoir. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Bonsoir. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Bonsoir. MICHELE: Bonsoir. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): All right. Let's talk about you say that "The alignment of your outer purpose with your inner purpose" is which we what we talked about last week, "the inner purpose must
fuel the outer purpose. Otherwise, ultimately, it's not going to work for us. But the alignment of our outer purpose with the inner purpose is called awakened doing, and that awakened doing is the next stage in the evolution of consciousness on our planet. There are three modalities of awakened doing: acceptance, enjoyment and enthusiasm." On page 295 you write, "Each modality represents a certain vibrational frequency of consciousness. You need to be vigilant to make sure one of them operates whenever you are engaged in doing anything at all"this is key, folks"from the most simple task to the most complex. If you are not in a state of either acceptance, enjoyment, or enthusiasm, look closely and you will find that you are creating suffering for yourself and others." So let's explain each one of them. You touched on it a little bit earlier when you were talking to Kippy, I think, about acceptance does notno, that was Beth. That acceptance does not mean condonement, it means, "I accept this moment for what it is." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And so when you are doing something, you'll be amazed if you become aware of this and observe people around you, how many people are constantly in a state of disharmony because they cannot be in either acceptance, enjoyment or enthusiasm about what they are doing. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You use the example in the book of changing a flat tire. Now, you don't have to enjoy changing the flat fire, you would have reached another level of consciousness where you can enjoy changing it. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Which I'm sure you could. You maybe could change it with enthusiasm. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): I'll let you know when it happens. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. But so you don't have to enjoy changing the flat tire, but at least you accept the tire is flat. You will have a much better experience rather than cursing the fact that you'd had a flat tire, which is what most people do. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): The first time you get the flat tire, everybody goes, "Damn, flat tire." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "I can't believe it."
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And even more so if it's at night in the pouring rain and it's cold. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right. It's never convenient. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So the question then is you have to check inside to see what is the inner, your inner state of consciousness that you're bringing to this action, to whatever you're doing. What is this inner state of consciousness? "Am Iwhat state am I in?" And then, often you will realize that you are in a state of denial of the present moment. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. So you said, acceptance, you just said this to Beth, is just saying what is is. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Is. And if this is what I have to do at this moment, then I might as well do it without resistance. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And that is the same as if it's a flat tire or if it is as my friend Kimberly was saying earlier with the girl and her boss. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "My boss is obnoxious." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That is what is. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "I'm not going to change that so let me figure out how to deal with that." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And the acceptance really needs to be applied only to the present moment. If the boss is there sitting there saying whatever he says. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): "At this moment am I able to accept this? Am I bringing acceptance to this?" OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Now, here we're talking more specifically about when you're performing some kind of action. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And what is the question? What's energy flows into the doing? OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right. That's the question. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Is it the energy of denial or negativity? And once you have developed a little bit of sensitivity, you can very easily tell by observing other people whether the energy that flows into what they do is contaminated with negativity or whether it's presence or consciousness that flows. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Totally qualitative difference is enormous. I mentioned the waiter as an example. How does he put the plate on the table? Is he just doing a job because he wants to get out of there as soon as possible or just making a living, or is he honoring this moment? And by honoring this moment, he's honoring you; he's honoring life. And something flows into the simple movement of putting a plate on the table just as one simple example. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That changes the environment around him too. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. I had this experience this weekend. I had to go somewhere and had to do something, and I was very upset with myself because I hadn't handled my schedule better. So
I had to get intofly into New York and then Imy schedule started like 8 in the morning. I was very upset that I hadn't given more time for myself because I was already exhausted. And I realized that I had to change my attitude, change the frequency. Otherwise, I was going to affect the outcome of everything I was doing that day if I couldn't have a shift in my own perception about the day. So I really literally went and sat with myself in the closet until I could shift my attitude into, "Well, I must accept the fact I didn't look out for myself, I didn't prepare better, my schedule is now overcrowded, that's the way it is. How can I move forward and make the best of it?" ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. Because I was making myself angrier and, you know, looking for who I could blame. Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. So if you hadn't done this, the energy OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I realized I was going to ruin my whole day. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, and it OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And everybody I encountered was going to feel that. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And everybody that youeverything that you would have not truly been successful because success depends on what energy flows into what you do. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And you affect everybody else also with that. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And that is why you must change the modality toif you're not accepting, enjoying or enthusiastic, you need to stop whatever that is and work on changing your mood or don't do it. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Either accept what you do, which is the primary thing, or don't do it. Remove yourself. Don't do it, but don't contribute negative energy or suffering to this world. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I know. But most people are going to say, I'm sure listening, saying, "But I had to do it. I had to do it. I have a responsibility. I have to do it, but I don't want to do it."
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Well, then know that at that moment it is your choice to create unhappiness for yourself and others. Once you know that that is your choice, it might change because really to generate unhappiness for yourself and by implication, for others, really requires you to be unconscious. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): But when you make this process conscious and realize, "At this moment, by resisting what I'm doing, I'm creating suffering for myself." OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): "And probably people around me too." OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. And the reason you've come into acceptance again is because of the energy that you're bringing into it, yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And the next modality for awakening is enjoyment. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's a notch above acceptance. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, as different frequency. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Vibrational frequency. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Vibrational frequency. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Cause everything is about vibrational frequency. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): People are bringing energy to everything that they do.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Now, enjoyment is a higher frequency. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Some things are easier, of course, to do in the state of enjoyment. One might almost say you do them naturally in a state of enjoyment, things that you like doing. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. I love this quote, Eckhart, on 297 you say, "On the new earth, enjoyment will replace wanting as the motivating power behind people's actions." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): When's that going to happen? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Well, it has to OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Not by July either, I don't think. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Well, not in the collective, but it can happen in the individual already now. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Where we do things because we enjoy them. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And not because you want more, and want more, and want more. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because so many people have expressed throughout this class on the message boards and in other areas how you get more things and get more things and you want more things and want more things and that leaves you with an empty space.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. Filling, trying to fill your life up with things eventually you come to an empty space and you feel completely unfulfilled. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Nothing. Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And so the wanting is the usual thing that comes out, out of the egoic state of scarcity or lack, which is always there when the ego predominates. So "I need that in order to fulfill myself, in order to find satisfaction, I need to achieve this in order to be fully myself." This is the underlying assumption. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right, of wanting. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And that is the old energy of wanting, and so you go out, and it becomes very stressful because you're trying to arrive at that point. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Always trying to get away from this moment because the next month promises greater fulfillment. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): The next one never comes because when it comes it's the now again, which is a place you want to get away from. Completely insane, but normal. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. Okay. So getting to the place where you can have enjoyment from things because enjoyment does what? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Enjoyment brings an enormous empowerment to what you do and it flows into what you do, and this is the beginning of creativity which comes out of that. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. "When the creative power of the universe becomes conscious of itself, it manifests joy. You don't have to wait for something 'meaningful' to come into your life so that you can finally enjoy what you do. There is more meaning in joy than you will ever need. The 'waiting to start living' syndrome is one of the most common delusions of the unconscious state."
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That's important because many people are trapped in that delusion. They are waiting for something to come into their lives which will finally give them joy or a sense of aliveness. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. I love this. 298, everybody, "Joy does not come from what you do, it flows into what you do and thus into this world from deep within you. The misperception that joy comes from what you do is normal, and it is also dangerous, because it creates the belief that joy is something that can be derived from something else, such as an activity or thing." Don't people do things that bring them joy? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That's what it looks like, but it's the same process that we talked about a little earlier when we talked about manifesting something from within. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): The joy is there. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It comes from the fullness of life that you already sense within you at this moment. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay, so for example, I have really enjoyed these webcasts. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I really enjoyed doing these webcasts. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And where does the enjoyment come from? From within you. It doesn't come from this table, or these lights, or the cameras, or even OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Doesn't it come from the community of people out there? I've really enjoyed having all these people join us. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): But the joy is within you and then it flows out. It reaches everybody. Even through the cameras it can reach people and trigger joy in others. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Can you all feel my joy? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, but only within them. So it's their own joy. When they feel your joy, they feel their joy because that's allit's one.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Oh, so they're not feeling my joy? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No, it'sthere's no such thing as "my joy" ultimately. It's only "joy." OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Oh, that's right. It's only "our joy." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, you could say that. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. There's our collective joy. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes. So you see that's the OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay, that is exactly what I'm doing. "The misperception that joy comes from what you do is normal, and it is also dangerous, because it creates a belief that joy is something that can be derived from something else. You then look to the world to bring you joy, happiness. But it cannot do that. That is why many people live in constant frustration. You will only," because the world is not giving them what they think they need. "You will enjoy any activity in which you are fully present, any activity that is not just a means to an end. It isn't the action you perform that you really enjoy, but the deep sense of aliveness that flows into it. That aliveness is one with who you are." I got that. Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So I'm sure many people touch that place within as they watch this webcast. They watch you talking, they watch me talkingsuddenly they feel that intense sense of aliveness within. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But is that enjoyment the same as pleasure? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No. Pleasure, pleasure OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's not. Because I asked that question of myself yesterday. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Pleasure comes from something without; outside of you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So you derive pleasure from something outside of you.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And I ask that because you say, "This means that when you enjoy doing something, you're really experiencing the joy of Being in its dynamic aspect. That's why anything you enjoy doing connects you with the power behind all creation." Now see, I read that and I thought what about people who enjoy gambling or enjoy ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): These are pleasures. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay, sex or enjoy being sadistic or enjoy harming other people. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, or enjoy things that OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): The power ofcreation isn't behind that. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No, we sometimes call that "enjoy," but there's no true joy in it. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It's being addicted to a pleasure, something outside that feeds the ego or the pain-body. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. And pleasure by the definition means pleasing me. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Which would be ego. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Got it. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Got it. Okay. Let's go to our New Earth study group that has gathered every week for the past 10 weeks at Borders on Michigan. Hi, everybody in Chicago. We got a warm day in Chicago, aren't we happy? GROUP: Yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): I know. I know people are out on the beach, 68 degrees. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Put our shorts on, it's 68 degrees here. Thank you so much for your enthusiasm and participation. We talked to Sharon during one of our classesI think it was around the second Web classand Sharon's standing by now. I hear you're going to be making some big changes. SHARON: Yes, I am. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): What? What happened? SHARON: Well, just like Eckhart was drawn to California to write ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Power of Now. SHARON: The Power of Now. I went on Idealist.org and just decided to volunteer, and someone responded back to me. And it's in The Hague in Netherlands. The thing is, is I have to do it. Everything has lined up, and I'm just drawn to do this. I have student loans because I have two graduate degrees, and but yet I have all the money I need to do this. I have the support of my support system here. You know, through conversations I've had with different members of this book club, I realized, "Gosh, you know what? I really want to do this. I absolutely want to do this." And when I'm not in a space of acceptance, I get scared and I say, "This does not make sense. Why am I doing this?" I flew to Holland last week. No, two weeks ago. I've been back a week. And I interviewed with the gentleman I'm going to be working with. He is an academic. It's an NGO. And I connect with him. I loveI'm actually doing research now that I'm back, I'm going back, I got an apartment. I'm going to be there for some months, you know, maybe longer. And because I feel drawn to do this, and I feel encouraged to do this, and things have just unfolded where I can absolutely afford to do this. I was downsized. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Then it's all lined up. It's all lined up. SHARON: Everything's lined up, and I'm shocked by that. I absolutely, when I think consciously of it, Oprah, I don't knowthis is not my life. This never has happened to me before. But whenever I go still, by the way, there was Nick at the Bodhi Tree. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. SHARON: And I was sitting in my room in Holland crying. The entire week, I hadn't been able to use my computer because of course I used it first day and I ran out ofmy battery died on me. And downstairs I troubleshooted with the
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So why were you crying over Nick? Why were you crying over Nick? SHARON: Because he was talking about what I was feeling. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Worried about your bills? SHARON: And you know, "I need to be earning," I said. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, I thought that was a powerful thing that Nick said because I think everybody's touched by that. I mean, any time ever since that Nick comment two weeks ago, what Eckhart said to Nick about worrying, I haven't had a worry since. I thought, "Well, I can think about it, I can choose to do something about it but I don't have to worry about it." I thought that was really powerful for all of us. SHARON: Well, absolutely. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Really powerful. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. SHARON: It was powerful. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So now you're in a situation, Sharon, don't question things lining up because that is what is supposed to be happening. SHARON: Right, right. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And that is, I will say to everybody who is listening to us today, that is what happens when you become more conscious. You get, you are aware enough to see things line up because when you move through the world unconsciously, you can't even see it line up. You are not available to be a witness to the alignment. And so as soon as you become more awakened, and the more awakened you become, the more things line up. And you end up moving SHARON: But Oprah, I have to OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Moving with the flow of your life. SHARON: Right. But here's what's exciting. Whenever, when I sit and I'm quiet. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah.
SHARON: And I just, you know, so I was crying and I was able to watch it because I was able to borrow a plug from somebody else in the hotel. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That was alignment right there. SHARON: So it worked. Again, it lined up, so it was great. So I'm sitting on the bed, and I'm crying, I'm, like, "What am I doing with my life?" Then I'm watching Nick talk, I'm dying of laughter of course, and I'm sure they heard me in the next rooms. But I said, "Wow, this is fantastic." What's really neat is I, after it was over, I shut down the computer and I sat and I said, "Okay, let's be still. You feel kind of strange about this, you don't feel you deserve this right now." That's really what it was, and I sat for a while and I said, "Okay, let me just sit with this. If this is what I feel, will it kill me if I don't feel great right now?" After that, I stayed up all night and just smiled at the sunset, you know, the sun came up, I packed slowly. I felt joy, and I have felt joy since coming back except for driving in to you know, to this last of our meetings because I'm going to miss everyone. And I realize also I'm letting go of something is over now for me. I'm not going to be going back into finance, I know that. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. SHARON: And whatever OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, I want everybody towell, thank you so much, Sharon, for sharing, sharing Sharon. SHARON: I appreciate it. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you. SHARON: Thank you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And everybody at the Borders for your commitment to this work and our Web series. Borders, give yourselves a round of applause there. SHARON: Yay. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): All our Borders buddies. SHARON: Oh, can I say one last thing, Oprah? OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. SHARON: Can I say one last thing? This, by the way, this group of people, I so love them. I'm going around saying to everybody, "I love you. I love you." This has been the best group. I'm taking classes,
some people here teach, and I'm taking classes with them, I've spoken to other people and learned so much about not just myself, but about the world, and I feel so joined with everyone. This has been just the best experience for me. And thank you so much for it. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Great, thank you. GROUP: Thank you, Oprah. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you again. Thank you, our Borders buddies. Isn't that the whole point of all of this is that when you become more awakened, everybody, things begin to flow in your life in a way that they had not before. And that's what's supposed to be happening. These, you know, you talk in the book about, you know, serendipitous encounters; I don't think you used the word, but things just start happening, they line up. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes. You have to be there for this to happen. If you're not there, you have to be there in the now so that life can work for you. You can't, if you deny life by denying the now, life can't work. It's like shutting, closing the shutters. The sun can't come in. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): The sun doesn't mind, but the sunwhy not open the shutters and let the sunshine in which isthe strange thing is that theit's when you no longer deny the present moment, then not only do you see all these things that are lining up there to support you, but it also means more things are coming into your life. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Absolutely. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Be of assistance. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Absolutely. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And so that's wonderful once you OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): The evolutionary impulse of the universe. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Rises up to meet you.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It does. It does. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It does not mean that you will never again encounter challenges. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Or if you have aif you want to have a certain course of action, you want to go from here to there, always, of course, being conscious that the step you're taking at this moment is the most important step. You might still want to go from here to there. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But it does reduce the fear. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Oh yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It does reduce the fear. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Because you know you can always bring your sense of presence to thewhatever the moment is. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And that you'll be all right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And as soon as you encounter a challenge, not resist it, but immediately come to an acceptance of the new situation and then see how thatvery often it turns around and becomes actually helpful. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): In the same way that a martial arts master always uses the opposing energy. He neverthe martial arts master does not fight against, he uses the opponent's energy and gives into it, and he wins bynot by yielding to the oncoming energy. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Knowing how to surrender to it. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Surrender, yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): To the oncoming energy. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yeah. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes, absolutely. A question that we get asked all the time is how old is Eckhart? How old are you? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): This body is 60 years old. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Wow. And why did you say "this body?" ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Well, I don't feel that I am this age. I mean, if you look within, nobody feels that. It's only if you identify with the body that you believe that you are a certain age. The consciousness that I am is ageless; the consciousness that you are is ageless. And I'm sure you also feel that there's inside you a consciousness which has nothing to do with age of the physical body. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right. Do you do something for your skin? No, these are all the questions we have to ask of the 10th lesson because people write in and they say that Eckhart has such glowy skin. Is there something you do especially for your skin, Eckhart? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Well, one confession I need to make here iswell, my skin is usually fine, I'm happy with my skin. But here, we have a very good makeup artist who does something to my skin before I come out here. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Really. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yeah. Stella.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Stella does. So you're wearing, like, a little powder or something. No, but you're ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Whatever. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, yeah, whatever, but it's so smooth. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): But my skin is fine. I mean, it'sI'm happy with it and Iyou don'tif you don't accumulate a lot of past inside, then the aging process slows down quite a bit. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Really? Say that again. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): If you do not accumulate a lot of past inside your psyche by hanging on to past, identifying with the past, deriving your sense of self from the past, talking about the past, thinking about the past, then you carry this burden of past. But if you let go of that past and focus primarily on present moment, then the aging processI believe that, and I've seen it in some people who are presentthe aging process of the body actually slows down considerably. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Wow. So 6-0. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yeah. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Your body is 6-0 years old. Yeah, don't look it. You don't do anything like color your hair or anything? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You don't. Okay. No Botox? Okay, yeah. Wouldn't we be just a little disappointed to find out Eckhart, Mr. No-Ego, is Botoxed? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): What is that? OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): What is Botox? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yeah.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Never mind. It's too hard to explain what it is. What is that? I can't even explain it. Now, let's go to Denise who's Skyping us from her home office in Seattle, Washington. Denise has a question that a lot of viewers have also asked. Denise, go ahead. DENISE: Hi, Oprah. Hi, Eckhart. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Hello, hi. DENISE: When I go to bed and I'm feeling conscious and aware, why then do I still have nightmares, and do I have an ego while I'm sleeping? OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Good question. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Well, some dreams are dreams of that process, things that haven't been faced completely during the day. So many kinds of dreams are processing dreams. And then there are other dreams that bring up different energies that can be pain-body coming into a dream. Ego can come into the dream because normally in a dream you are not conscious that you are dreaming; exceptional circumstances, you may be, I don't know whether you are ever conscious in the dream that you are dreaming, are you? DENISE: I can't remember. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No, probably not. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So it is quite possible sometimes for the pain-body to come up in a dream, and the character that you represent in the dream is most likely an aspect of your ego. In a dream, of course, you're completely identified with what's happening in the dream, and there's usuallythis is why I asked you this questionthere's usually an absence of the aware space where you are aware that you are a character in the dream. And usuallyso you can have the awareness in your daily life here. This is what this is all about is to live in a way so that you have a dimension in your life. In the background of your life, there's always the aware presence. From there you are conscious of whatever you are doing, whatever your mind is saying. In a dream that's missing; you don't have the level of awareness. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Awareness. Unless you're conscious in the dream, which I dream dreams and I'm conscious in the dream. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And I can sayI can be in a dream and then say, "Oh, I'm dreaming now." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And if it's not a dream I want to be in, I'll say, "Got to get out of here." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That's nice. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Or you can say in a dream, "Okay, I'm dreaming, I can do anything." OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, I can do anything. I think I'll fly now. But you don't do that in your dreams, right? So the question is whether or not your dreams are your ego. Sometimes they are not. Did you not also say, well, you did say in the book that sometimes when we dream we go back to Source? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Well, there I talk about dreamless sleep because as you know when you sleep you have the dream stage. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Which you go in and out of periodically, and then, occasionally, you have the deep sleep state of dreamless sleep. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, you say that on 282, I read that earlier. "Each night, without knowing it, you return to the unmanifested Source of all life when you enter the state of deep, dreamless sleep, and then reemerge again in the morning, replenished." So you've gone back to source energy there.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes, yes. So it does helpwhat do you do before going to sleep is when you, let's say the last 20 minutes or so, what OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You're not watching the news are you? DENISE: No, I'm reading A New Earth. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Okay, but even that DENISE: I feel like ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That's good, but even that I would put it aside just for some minutes before you actually go to sleep so that there can be a space inside you rather than words. And some of the words may actually help you get in touch with that space. But then the time comes when you put the book aside, and the best, the most powerful, the most helpful way of going into sleep is by lying on your back flat, arms stretched out, and put attention into the inner energy field of your body and feel the aliveness from your toes to the tip of your head, scan your body with your attention a few times, and then feel the entire energy field of the body as a single field of energy. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And it's very beautiful to OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That has helped me a lot. That's actually, since you said that three classes ago, has helped me do much better sleeping. What Eckhart is also, I think, emphasizing here for you, Denise, is that being more present in every moment of the day with whatever is going on in your life will allow you to not to have to deal with whatever you didn't deal with during the day in your dreams. Because dreams are often the manifestation of your, you know, subconscious mind trying to work things out that you didn't fully work out in the day, that you didn't work out. And so again, the answer is being present with whatever is going on, dealing with whatever needs to be dealt with in the moment so that it doesn't show up later on in your dreams. And I do that particularly if, you know, I am not a television watcher because I'm on television, like the cobbler's children has no shoes, but if I happen to be in a room and walk into a room and the television's on and it's something, a particularly disturbing image, rather than flip from that image or try to deny that I saw that image, I will literally take it in. I will accept what I have seen and deal with it in my mind so that it doesn't show up later on
in a dream and frighten me or disturb me, you know. So I try to deal with whatever is going to be disturbing when it is happening so I don't have to process it later, you know? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, that's good, very good, yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. I hope that helps. Thank you. DENISE: That makes senses, thank you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well, thank you. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Thank you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Cause yeah, the dreams are just unmanifested stuff that you didn't deal with. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes. Occasionally, it happens that one has a deeper dream, they tend to be more rare where you might have a sudden insight coming into a dream that you didn't have before, a sudden realization or some kind of dream images that come, that have a symbolic meaning in your life and are telling you something, that can happen occasionally also, and that's beautiful when it happens. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Well let's go to the third modality, which is we've talked about acceptance. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): If you can't bring acceptance, enjoyment, or enthusiasm. And enthusiasm, which is what Kippy from Tokyo had brought up earlier, is the higher vibration of modality for awakening. That whenever you are enthusiastic, that there is something else that comes into play, there's an energy field created that's bigger than you are. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. It's particularly, it's an energy that is of a creative kind, an energy that creates something, brings something into this world. I wouldn't say it's necessarily of a higher frequency. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Frequency.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It's a more powerful frequency because it's the outgoing movement that is connected, however, with the source. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, and again we say that that is the kind of enthusiasm that's just not wild external enthusiasm, but enthusiasm borne of the spirit. Enthusiasm borne of consciousness. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, we're not just talking about going to a Bears game standing out there screaming for your team. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No, that's excitement. Sometimes, the ego sometimes looks for states of excitement like that as substitutes for being. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. For being. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): You're out of touch with being, then the ego looks for substitutes, and excitement is one of them. Excitement sometimes through the media, through watching a violent film, excitement through whatever. So acceptance, there are no clear dividing lines between these three modalities. Sometimes acceptance suddenly shifts into enjoyment. And sometimes enjoyment shifts into enthusiasm. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): To enthusiasm. Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): So if you, let's say you're doing something that before you would've resented and suddenly you are able to realize, "Okay, there's resentment and denial inside me. Let's see if I can accept that I have to do this right now." And so suddenly you bring acceptance to it, and as you bring acceptance, you're actually beginning to enjoy what you're doing. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, yeah. That is absolutely true. This thing I had, I was telling you I had to do this weekend, at first was resenting it. I went and sat in the closet with myself so I could change my attitude, I decided I'm going to accept it, and during the process of it, I decided, "Let me be 100 percent present and see what happens." If I could just be one, and that was my focus, just to be 100 percent present. And I started getting a kick out of it. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, yeah. We're Skyping again with a study group that has gathered at the Bodhi Tree bookstore in West Hollywood. Hi, everybody. GROUP: Hi, Oprah. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Hi everybody and Nick. I see Nick there. Okay, who is at the microphone? Is that Tatiana? TATIANA: Tatiana. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Hi, Tatiana has a question? TATIANA: Yes, hi. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay, go ahead. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Hi. TATIANA: Yes, I do. It's about acceptance, and Eckhart says acceptance looks like a passive state. And I do have a big problem with that because sometimes I feel like I accept what is more and more in my life, but at times I feel like I have to be proactive and I have to do something. And at the same time, I know that I have to step back and be aware and be in the moment. And that creates even more stress. Like I'm not getting it, like I'm doing it wrong, and I feel like a loser sometimes. I feel like I'm not getting it. So how do I make it go away, like this guilt of "you should know better?" ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Oh, well that's an additional question. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's an additional question. So the first one is TATIANA: Sorry. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Okay, let's deal with the first part. And the first part is ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): The first part is that you believe that when you're in a state of acceptance, you are no longer very effective, that you cannot act effectively anymore. Is that what you believe? TATIANA: Absolutely. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That's not the case. That's a wrong view of what acceptance means. And this is why we've been talking about
bringing acceptance into what you are doing so that acceptance is not separate from doing. Acceptance, for it to be complete true acceptance needs to flow into the doing rather than take you away from the doing and say, "Okay, there's nothing I can do." In some cases, of course, there is nothing you can do in certain situations, in which case, you simply accept at this moment there's nothing I can do. There are other situations where you can do something where doing actually the situation requires you, if you truly respond to the situation in the present moment, it requires you to take action, to do something. And then something for you to experiment with now from now on is to see if you can bring this energy field of acceptance and act out of that so that the action doesn't come out of inner resistance or a neediness. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Or denial. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Or denial or anger. It comes out a more peaceful state, and then you will experience how powerful your action can actually be. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah, did you get that, Tatiana? TATIANA: Yes, I get it. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That acceptance flows into the doing. I think everybody who is misunderstanding is thinking that acceptance means that, "I'm saying this moment okay, and so I have to live with it and then do nothing with it or be passive." He's saying you must firstin one of the earlier classes you used the example of the bus in the mud. The wheels are in the mud. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. I am stuck in the mud. Let's say I'm walking out somewhere, and suddenly I'm stuck in the mud to my knees. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You're stuck in the mud to your knees. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yeah. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You must first accept you're stuck in the mud to your knees. You can't curse the fact you're stuck in the mud to the knees, you can't deny that you're stuck in the mud to your knees, you can'tthe energy that you spend wanting not to be stuck in the mud to your knees is all wasted energy. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And it gets you stuck more deeply if you're struggling.
OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Gets you stuck more deeply. You must accept and let the acceptance you're stuck in the mud on your knees flow into, "Now what do I do to get myself out of the mud?" ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, and this "now what do I do" is a state of alert attention. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): And that's a high frequency. It's a state ofit comes up, okay, you almost listen, it's not an auditory listening, but I'm using the analogy of listening, it's a state of alert attention. "What do I do now?" And suddenly, okay, there's a moment of space you don't know. And then out of it you dothe doing arises spontaneously, or a thought comes into your head that tells you what to do. And that will be empowered. And that'syou practice with little things first perhaps. Practice with things that usually you don't like doing so you bring a little bit of resistance to it. Even simple things you might not like going to the supermarket or you might not like driving to work or whatever it is. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Accepting what is. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Accepting what is. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's what acceptance means. "I accept what is in this moment and now will decide what do I do to change this moment." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): "But I won't deny this moment for what it is or wish that it was something else." TATIANA: And I won't feel guilty. Yeah. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And you won't feel guilty, Tatiana. TATIANA: Yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Now, yes, now we come to the second part or the second question, which is your mind is not telling you something that you're not good enough. TATIANA: Yes, like I'm doing it wrong.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. So there's nothing wrong. You now know what to do and don't believe your mind when it tells you, "You can't do it; you're not good enough." These are things that often the mind will throw up, especially when people try to be present or to becometo be still, the mind will say, "Not now because I have too much on my mind. I've got too much to think, I can't do it, not now, possibly not now, maybe tomorrow I'll try again." TATIANA: Yes, yes. It happens to me all the time. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): The mind will always tell you why you cannot be present now because the mind doesn't like presence because it's the end of the mind. TATIANA: Yeah. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Tatiana and everybody at the Bodhi Tree, thank you so much. Nick, see what a powerful influence you've had for your worrying about yourNick's worried about his bills, Sharon's in the hotel room crying cause Nick's worried about his bills. Unbelievable. Everybody at the Bodhi Tree, thank you so much for your gathering and listen to (inaudible). GROUP: Thank you. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Thank you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Bodhi buddies. Thank you, our Bodhi buddies. Thank you so much, Tatiana. So do you think that in these 10 weeks we have evolved? I know somebody last week had a problem with the word "evolution." But do you think in these past weeks this community, our new tribe of New Earth readers, we've evolved to a higher level of consciousness, a new way of being in the world? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, I believe OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): To creating a new earth? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. I believe for many people, it's been an opening so that thissuddenly this new dimension has come into their lives. And once it has come into your life, there's no going back. It can be obscured for a while, if you get identified with a mind again or with the pain-body. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Cause don't you have to work on it all the time?
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That helps. Even if you don't work on it, it's there, and eventually something will then happen in your life that will put you back in touch with it. It could be a crisis. But my recommendation is not to wait for a crisis in your life that forces you to become present again but to choose presence as much as possible in your daily life, to choose the present moment, to always check inside what your relationship is with the present moment, the primordial question: "What's my relationship with this moment? Is it friendly or is it dysfunctional?" And that tells you everything. If it's dysfunctional, it means your future is going to manifest that. If it's friendly, open and accepting, then the so-called future is going to manifest that. It's as simple as that. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Do you ever have problems, Eckhart? Do you have problems? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No, I don't create problems. Challenges can happen always, you don't getlife will always challenge you in one way or another, and that is good, but there is no need to transform the challenges of life into problems by dwelling on things mentally. If you cannot take any action at this moment to turn things around in your mind, which is where worry comes in, related toworry is problem-making. It's the mental problem-making. So I don't have problems, not because there are no challenges in my life because no matter what stage in life you reach, there's always some kind of challenge. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Life is designed in that way. The world is not here to make you conscious. Sorry, the world is not here to make you happy. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Right. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): It's here to make you conscious. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Make you conscious. Yes. And when you bring consciousness into your lifefor all of those who have been conflicted over the past weeks about the religious beliefswhen you bring consciousness into your life, what you're really saying is that you're bringing inallowing the spirit of that which is God to flow through you and be the preeminent force in your life. Isn't that what you're saying? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes, yes, yes. There's no longer the little me. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It's not the little me.
ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yeah. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): You're connecting yourself to the bigger sourceto the source of all things. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes. And let it then flow through you and then this is, for example, where creativity comes into your life. It'strue creativity can only come in when you let that dimension into your life. So the source energy manifests through you, and creativity can start with a little thing like even a tiny creative thought, or some new way of looking at something is already a sign of creativity. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But most important it's recognizing that when you can be conscious of the consciousness, when you bring the presence of that which is consciousness or the spirit of a higher power or the spirit of God into your life and you allow that to direct your path, that then all things come to you as they should. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yeah. That's how you create the flow. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, that's the flow, entering the flow, yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): And that is how you say, "A new species is arriving on the planet. It is arising now, and we are it." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes. This is such an enormous shift in consciousness that's happening. It's almostthis is why I use that expressionit's almost as if we were transforming into a new species. For the first time, a conscious species. It's almost as if humanity was only now beginning to actually wake up. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. Would you share with the rest of the audience, at the end of this just before we started this class I said a thank you to all the crews who made this possible and Oprah.com, all the Oprah.com staff who's worked so hard the past 10 weeks and our book club staff and producers and everybody. We had a thank you to everybody, and Eckhart because of my book and the condition of my book presented me with a leather-bound copy of A New Earth. Would you share with them what you wrote in my book? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): I wrote a littlethe little poem that I also quote in Chapter 10 by the Persian poet Hafiz, which starts, "I am a hole in the flute that the Christ's breath moves through. Listen to this music." That's the poem. "I
am a hole in the flute," I'm not the flute, "I'm a hole in the flute that the Christ's breath," God's breath, "moves through. Listen to this music." So I wrote this little poem, and I said to Oprah she was a wonderful hole that energy is moving through her, and the world is listening to this music. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you for allowing me to do that. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Thank you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): With this magnificent piece of work that you've given to us through your words. And, obviously, you were the hole also for which Christ's breath, the breath of God, the breath of all energy and creation flowed through you in order for you to write this. I mean, as I have read it over and over again, now on my fourth reading, I marvel at how you were able to put these sentences together in such a way that they connecthave connected to me and to all of you all around the world. So thank you for this experience. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Thank you. And everybody else, of course, is also that in essence. You are the opening for that dimension to come into this world. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right. And anything that we do that is creative or is successful or is good comes from that source flowing through us. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): It is not of our doing. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): No. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): But of the greater doing of consciousness. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): So I want to thank you all for being a part of this really magnificent journey. It's been a part of what I know is my life's calling to be able to be the "hole" for all of this to flow through. So I especially want to thank you andyou and Kim for coming to go Chicago these past 10 weeksevery single week to share A New Earth with all of us. As I said earlier, I really encourage all of you to let this be your summer rereading book. And if you've enjoyed it, you should pass it on. There's no greater gift than sharing it. That's why I wanted to share it with you all. There's no greater gift than sharing it with somebody that you care about and having their lives also be awakened and transformed by the words that point you in the direction of the experience of awakening.
So you can all begin to rewatch our webcasts this summer. Please join me next Monday, May 12, for the start of my Soul Series webcast cause so many people have said, "What do we do now?" Here on Oprah.com I'll be talking to Dr. Jill Bolte Taylor. She's the brain scientist who had a catastrophic stroke and experienced much of what we've been talking about in our New Earth webcasts. Our Soul Series will continue throughout the summer with spiritual thinkers and authors from every walk of life, so I hope you'll keep Mondays reserved for Oprah.com. Tonight's class will be available on demand tomorrow for free here at Oprah.com. And if you want to download or watch any of our other classes, you can do that tomorrow at Oprah.com and of course iTunes. It's free because of the generous support of Nature Made Softgel vitamins. What are we going to do next Monday? ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Another way offor people to continue to connect with the energy would be perhaps, one is rereading this book, of course, not necessarily from the beginning, just opening it some after you've read it. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): All the places that you've outlined, yeah. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. And also I, there are lots ofI've done retreats and talks, so on my website people can get talks or retreats. And just listening to a talk, a two- or three-hour talk can get, put you back in touch with the presence. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): That's right. And you can always download the webcast. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Yes. And we'll be back in the fall. There's no telling what we'll do. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): That's right. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): There's no telling. This is just the beginning. So thank you all. And again, as Gandhi said, "Let's all go out in the world and be the change we want to see." ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Yes, yes. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Thank you. ECKHART TOLLE (AUTHOR A NEW EARTH: AWAKENING TO YOUR LIFE'S PURPOSE): Thank you. OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): Great.

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OPRAH WINFREY (HOST): A worldwide Web event. ANNOUNCER: Brought to you by Chevy; technologies that go from gas-friendly to gas-free.

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