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1/15/13

When the next bomb goes off in London, blame the judges Telegraph Blogs

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Con Coughlin
Con Coughlin is the Telegraph's Defence Editor and a world-renowned expert on global security and terrorism issues. He is the author of several critically acclaimed books. His new book, Khomeini's Ghost, is published by Macmillan. He appears regularly on radio and television in Britain and America.

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When the next bomb goes off in London, blame the judges Telegraph Blogs

When the next bomb goes off in London, blame the judges
By Con Coughlin Defence Last updated: February 10th, 2010 144 Comments Comment on this article

Binyam Mohamed says he was tortured in Pakistan Photo: AP Why don't our judges just come clean and sign up with the Taliban? Every time they are asked to choose between the defence of the realm, or upholding the rights of some Islamic militant who claims his human rights have been violated, the judges invariably find in favour of the latter. Whether it is holding suspected terrorists so that thorough investigations of their activities can be carried out, or pandering to civil rights campaigners such as the odious Clive Stafford-Smith, the judical establishment never misses an opportunity to undermine the government's efforts to protect us from harm. Perhaps it's because me lerned friends are too grand to travel by public transport, but the only reason I can think of to explain their egregious behaviour is that they somehow feel immune from the threat posed by Islamist terror groups. Even when the security services have raised the current terror threat level to "severe", the judges are more interested in bending over backwards to accommodate deeply unsympathetic characters like Binyam Mohamed than paying proper attention to the nation's security needs. Poor Binyam claims he was tortured after he was caught "back-packing" in Afghanistan. Of course no one in the judiciary pays the slightest bit of notice when Binyam insists that he had travelled to Afghanistan simply to help out with some charity work, rather than, as our intelligence and security services suspect, to assist the Taliban and al-Qaeda with their plots to blow up the West. They are only interested that, once he had been safely removed from the battlefield, his human rights might somehow have been violated. The document that has now been released by the Foreign Office relates that Binyam was subjected to sleep deprivation, rather than the more lurid claims his lawyers have made about him having his testicles slashed with razors. Poor
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1/15/13

When the next bomb goes off in London, blame the judges Telegraph Blogs

diddums. When I travel to Afghanistan with the Army we live on three hours sleep a night, but no one complains about sleep deprivation. We just get on with it. But there is a serious point to today's disgraceful ruling by the High Court. Our national security depends heavily on our intelligence-sharing cooperation with the U.S., and it is thanks to the intel provided by the CIA and other U.S. intelligence agencies that we have managed to avoid a repeat of the July 7 bombings. But if the Americans, alarmed at the willingness of our judges to humiliate them in public, decide to scale down the level of cooperation, our national security will undoubtedly be placed in jeopardy. Certainly, if another al-Qaeda bomb goes off in London, the judges will be as much to blame as Osama bin Laden.

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When the next bomb goes off in London, blame the judges Telegraph Blogs

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alegitbritcit 02/22/2010 04:30 AM
Where does this self destructive streak come from that always seem to infect labour governments? Weak politicians,treasonous behaviour,weak judges so out of touch with normal society,liberal lefties undermining the UK every chance it gets.Laws from here and the EU designed to undermine and weaken us,at the same time protect the rights of terrorists,criminals and every deviant Why does Labour always,always,always promote the rights of minorities be it ethnics,homosexuals,lesbians,muslims,illegal immigrants,phony asylum seekers, in fact anyone except the rights of the majority the way a democracy should work? We are at war ,torture is acceptable to obtain info to safeguard the country and it's citizens,that is the real world we live in not Walt Disney's.Why in God's name are we interested in some ignorant,deluded terrorist who is not even British?For God's sake he went to Asia with the intention of killing British soldiers he has no rights end of argument. This is why is Britain is in the mess it is. Recommend Report

alegitbritcit 02/22/2010 04:29 AM


Where does this self destructive streak come from that always seem to infect labour governments? Weak politicians,treasonous behaviour,weak judges so out of touch with normal society,liberal lefties undermining the UK every chance it gets.Laws from here and the EU designed to undermine and weaken us,at the same time protect the rights of terrorists,criminals and every deviant Why does Labour always,always,always promote the rights of minorities be it ethnics,homosexuals,lesbians,muslims,illegal immigrants,phony asylum seekers, in fact anyone except the rights of the majority the way a democracy should work? We are at war ,torture is acceptable to obtain info to safeguard the country and it's citizens,that is the real world we live in not Walt Disney's.Why in God's name are we interested in some ignorant,deluded terrorist who is not even British?For God's sake he went to Asia with the intention of killing British soldiers he has no rights end of argument. This is why is Britain is in the mess it is.

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stealthbong 02/16/2010 12:26 AM


This is a cretinous article. "Why dont our judges just come clean and sign up with the Taliban? Every time they are asked to choose between the defence of the realm, or upholding the rights of some Islamic militant who claims his human rights have been violated, the judges invariably find in favour of the latter." Maybe this is due to this governments demonstrably cavalier approach to upholding the human values of a western democracy. And not the bias of our judges.

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jackthesmilingblack 02/15/2010 07:10 AM


Taser: TeleActive Shock Electronic Repulsion You can't screw with an acronym. Cf. laser You're off the mark regarding torture, too.
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When the next bomb goes off in London, blame the judges Telegraph Blogs

senekaross 02/15/2010 01:56 AM


. http://japan-russia.jimdo.com/... .

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alanstoddart 02/12/2010 03:41 PM


Hardly torture. But interesting that a self confessed member of Al Qaeda, trained in weapons, explosives and dirty bombs, who was on his way to the US to carry out an attack with a man who has been convicted in the US of terror crimes should be considered a victim. If police officers can tazer a man several times in an arrest, then surely gentle 'torture' to prevent terror attacks must be also acceptable level of violence?

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eddieelgar 02/12/2010 09:45 AM


"War is the terrorism of the rich and powerful, Terrorism is the war of the poor and powerless".

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rosina 02/12/2010 07:04 AM


Earlier on a comment was made about allowing a Hindu funeral pyre, how come when the people of this country are not allowed to have a bonfire in their back gardens, which had been common practice for years ? It is not part of our culture,we follow the rules of this land when someone dies,if something different is required the body should be taken back to their homeland, not change our laws again, religion or no religion.

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grumpy ol ben 02/12/2010 05:06 AM


I'm pleased that at least some people understand the issue. I'd have hoped that the points I outlined were self-evident and a matter of common knowledge, but seemingly not. There is, of course, a fundamental weakness with our judiciary which the American one doesn't share. this is, of course, that judges are appointed by the monarch but on advice from HMG; they are therefore de-facto tenured appointees of the ruling party. combine this with a central characteristic of the prevailing ultra-liberal philosophy, the denial of the very existence of alternative philosophies which do not accept or subscribe to their world view, and the path to appointing judges from alien cultures who place their cultural imperatives above equality before the law, precisely because this principle is not part of their culture, is wide open. furthermore, there is no effective process by which the process of deciding what
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When the next bomb goes off in London, blame the judges Telegraph Blogs

the law actually means in prctice - one of the important functions which judges serve - can be monitored. It is a complex, expensive, protracted procedure to challenge a single ruling, and when it is done the outcome is a highly specific ruling of limited application. European judges are in a somewhat different position, which is precisely why French judges, for example, can decide that no benefits are payable without 3 years' tax payment, German and Dutch legislators can introduce restrictions on East European immigrants, or Spanish judges can render British expats homeless by the byzantine workings of their planning system, or tell non-Spanish speakers to go away and learn Spanish, or at least provide an interpreter at their own expense, if they expect to be seen by a doctor. Why, in fact, do we have such huge levels of immigration? Partly political manipulation on a breath-taking level, of course, but why do immigrants take such risks to cross the Channel? The answer, in one word - BENEFITS. In another word or words, A LEGAL SYSTEM WHICH FAVOURS THEM UNFAIRLY AND FEARS TO SEEK TO MAKE THEM OBEY IT. We don't, in fact, need to make them ipso facto illegal or seek to deport them in tens of thousands. Given the numbers who appear to have no recognisable nationality, or come from countries which have no recognisable legal system and/or have no reservations about not wanting them back, this would quite likely result in a fruitless game of cross-Channel ping-pong as they were shuttled to and fro in small, but locally unmanageable, numbers. The answer is to copy the French, Spanish and others - no benefits, no nothing, without proper documentation at point of departure. A proper policy of putting illegals straight back on the next flight or boat to their point of departure, at that carriers' expense. A proper policy of enforcing the doctrine that it is not, in fact, legal to marry for the specific purpose of gaining entry, or more correctly that such marriages are not valid for that purpose; and simce, for example, 70% of Pakistani immigrants marry and import wives from Pakistan, the implementation of this shouldn't pose too many intellectual challenges. All these things are perfectly legal once you break away from the doctrine that the Human Rights Act is both paramount over all other legislation and capable of almost infinitely elastic interpretation. This is precisely why it is so lax and ambiguously worded, of course. There is a significant section of the British judiciary who hand down rulings which go far beyond anything required by EU law. This is precisely because they have been placed there by politicians, because they can be relied on to do so. Cherie Blair is a particularly odious example of this, but she is far from alone. I will now propose that our salvation will, in fact, come from the combination of the fringe parties and Europe - insofar as it comes from anywhere at all. I don't share the delusions of the half-dozen or so UKIP posters, and their sock puppets, on here. However the nationalist minority parties are another matter. There is a good deal of bickering about whether parties such as the BNP are in fact, parties of the Left or Right. This is essentially irrelevant, since they do not have any serious prospect of forming a government. the Europeans understand the roots and branches of fascism better than we do, from hard experience. There are people walking the streets of any European city with direct experience of the day-to-day working of such societies. All major European countries have been through the cataclysmic destruction and reconstruction of their political and social structures within living memory, some more than once. This has involved the recognition and containment of hard-line nationalism, at a time when the British have been allowed to retreat into nostalgia, xenophobia and insularity - a very British characteristic, also evident in their trans-Atlantic cultural descendants. This has been achieved by the incorporation of nationalism into public life. I don't
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When the next bomb goes off in London, blame the judges Telegraph Blogs

actually much care for Geert Winders (sp?), but he has a specific point and is an integral part of Dutch political life. The French had Jean-Marie Le Pen. Like them or not, and in some respects they give me the impression of turning into something out of a Hammer Horror film at full moon, the BNP are about the only available channel by which such pressure can be brought onto the next incumbents. The Lib Dems won't do it; they are too deluded about being 'part of the process', kingmakers in a hung parliament rather than stooges to be used and abused by NuLab if necessary. However there would seem to be every prospect by which a case could be brought, in Europe, once Lisbon is in force, to the effect that British law as held by judges in the UK is not valid and the French, or Spanish, precedents are in fact the determining case. Who will do this? The BNP, if anyone. Unlike UKIP they don't have any delusions about forming a government, and they certainly don't have any goodwill for the "multi-culti project". They are now part of the Ero Parliament, with the funding and resources that brings. Our political system is now broken beyond repair in its major essentials. The pressing need is to get rid of NuLab, but the damage has been caused over 30 years by both sides. ConLite isn't the answer, and the LibDems are irrelevancies who have had their chance, and muffed it. We now need PR, on the basis that neither main party can be trusted to reform itself, either under FPTP or by whatever gerrymandering of the electoral system they seek to embrace. We need, in fact, the very system which we were once instrumental in establishing in Europe, precisely to prevent the return of the elective dictatorships pursuing ideological programmes with no reference to the wishes of the indigenous electorate, manipulating the judiciary and transhipping entire ethnic populations across continents for party political purposes. The snag is, of course, that it took the total devastation of continental Europe to provide the opportunity. We have stood on the fringes of Europe, in it but not OF it, for too long. It is long past time that we got to grips properly with then issue, because as things stand we will indeed become a backwater, isolated and exploited; well, even more than we already are.

alegitbritcit 02/12/2010 04:14 AM


Remember judges also interpret the law,so their own beliefs/ideology may interfere in their ultimate descision.Why did MI5 not "lose" the referred to papers,the government and all it's depts. do it regularly?Time to show terrorists we will use any methods to to obtain information for this country's protection,for God's sake we are fighting a war.Winston must be screaming in his grave at the way this government has handicapped the security services/armed forces to the endangerment of the British people

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worldtravellor 02/12/2010 02:03 AM


How many wake up calls do we need to remind us that there really are bad people out there. As for saying this bad person has been 'roughed up' a bit, come on, he is a terrorist. We have a secret service dealing with people like that, that is why they do not tell us what they are doing, while trying to keep the country safe. Stop the flood of people like this coming into the uk.
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When the next bomb goes off in London, blame the judges Telegraph Blogs

Give the heads of our judges a shake.

mijassteve 02/11/2010 04:48 PM


Judges uphold the rule of law,Coughlin upholds the rule of journalism, I know which one I fall in line behind. Coughlin's idiotic argument is that of the secret police and the neo conservatives, who do not give a damn for the rule of law. The USA have made a rod for there own back with there Nazi style internment.The use of deplorable means of eliciting information aligns them with the likes of Papa Doc & Pinochet.

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warden 02/11/2010 04:08 PM


The purpose of the exercise was to define 'the West' and justify your claim that "Islam declared war on the West around fourteen hundred years ago, and has, with odd pauses, been continuously hammering away at us ever since." Grumpy ol ben's post is on an entirely unrelated attempt to "define The West as a specific entity, distinct from Islam". It seems that your sweeping, trans-historical assumption is based on little more than the much-publicised conquest of al-Andalus and a handful of battles at times when Christians and Muslims were far busier fighting their own. When you talk of 'Islam', a term you have a very limited comprehension of, does your knowledge extend beyond the Ottoman Empire as far as, say, India, Iran, Central Asia or any of the other lands that have been home to the majority of the world's Muslims for the last thousand years? "Are you a product of the Socialist education system that blames all the Worlds ills on the Evil British Empire before the existence of which all was sweetness and light in the World, by chance?" Incorrect. I am a 'product' of the private school education system, which, in my experience, seeks to encourage independent thought and enquiry in students. I am not a socialist. I do not blame all the World's ills on the British Empire. I do hope you can build a better straw man than that. "The Muslims first crossed the Straits of Gibraltar around AD 711, and thereafter we were constantly at war with them on the European mainland,, encompassing such events as the Crusades and the Varna campaign of 1444 until John III Sobieski of Poland lifted the second siege of Vienna in 1683." Aside from you having switched the argument from them hammering away at us to us crusading against them, it may come as a surprise to you to learn that the vast proportion of the Muslim world was barely even aware the Crusades were taking place. Muslim hegemony during those centuries centred on the empires of the Turks, Mongols and Mamluks. The idea that Muslims in this period formulated their world view on the basis of an East/West paradigm would not be endorsed by any credible scholar. If you fancy yourself as a student of history, Catweazle, interrogate it from different angles and perspectives and remember to approach it with a broad understanding. "Now, using different tactics and funded by petrodollars, theyre back." The "different tactics" being the mass immigration encouraged by successive Conservative and Labour administrations? "We already have no-go areas in our Northern towns and cities, along with honour killings and arson attacks on the homes and businesses of moderate Muslims who refuse to pay the Islamists protection money to finance Jihad, to name but a couple of the illegalities that are spreading rapidly in our country." Isolated instances used to tarnish an entire religion. The same can be done to any
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group. A slightly more worrying illegality took place when our prime minister decided to invade Iraq and contribute to the deaths of 1.2 million Iraqis. "Then there is the completely insane introduction of Sharia law into our country, which has at a stroke undone several hundred years of emancipation of women, and further, pretty much legalised the right of Muslim men to beat their wives and daughters, so long as they dont mark their faces, that is." or, put another way... Vermin like the Mohamed used to be properly interrogated and then shot in the back while trying to escape, or better, wrapped in a pigskin and buried alive. Time we returned to the old ways. (Catweazle) You have now revealed yourself to be a dim-witted xenophobe, Catweazle.

fiatlux 02/11/2010 03:11 PM


does anyone know what this person as been accused of? As Binyam M. actually been actively conspiring to committ acts of terrorism against the UK? If he has then his torture is well deserved

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realist8 02/11/2010 02:43 PM


Con, what an apt name as your articles are generally an utter con playing to peoples prejudices. Now you want to blame judges if a bomb goes off... what world do you live in and how can we get you back to planet earth?! You're a typical cheerleader for the GWoT and the many crimes we have commited in our vastly disproportionate response to the attacks on 9/11 including that ludicrous detour into Iraq. You do realise we wouldn't have been attacked on 7/7 if we hadn't been in Iraq don't you and every intelligence agency warned the govt. that invading Iraq would make us more of a target? Well that turned out to be highly accurate. As to the people saying 'hang the judges' what the hell is wrong with you? I mean seriously people grow up. Pragmatist you said The Judiciary in the UK along with ALL Politicians and Senior Police Officers are the result of 50 YEARS of University staffed by a LEFT WING, ISLAMOPHILE Academia. Our Universities have been churning out brainwashed PC, MC, Green NAZI, Islamophile, left wing, moonbats since the 60s and now they INFEST everything. Hmmm sounds like some resentful rubbish to me, I'm a current studen and have both right and left wing lecturers all of whom manage to be much more civil and cordial to each other than you seem to be and encourage us to think independently. Why are so full of hate and fear? Get out, get some exercise and realise life is good. Also realise you're much more likely to be run over by a speeding driver than by a terrorist but then again it wouldn't surprise me if you were against speed cameras too. Oh and if the trades descriptions act could extend to names you'd be in deep trouble mate as your attitudes and knee jerk reactions are anything but pragmatic. When will people realise we, as in the UK, are not a world power and haven't been for a long tim. It's well past time for us to readjust

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josephe 02/11/2010 01:52 PM


These are acts of war that these terrorists are committing . Terrorists are not worthy of our constitutional rights . Treating this like a mere law enforcement matter places our country at great risk because that`s not how radical Islamic extremists are looking at this . They know we`re at war, and to win that war we certainly don`t need a lecture a la Goldstone int`l Sharia Law criteria . Nor these Sharia law judges bending over backwards to accommodate terrorist Binyam Mohamed . Joseph.E Givatayim-Israel

pjimq 02/11/2010 11:11 AM


White House counsel, Gregory B. Craig, did the heavy lifting to push for the shut down of Guantanamo Bay and the release of documents/pictures of prisoner abuse. Many uninformed posters on this site claim that the USA released info about the treatment of the prisoners. This was so disliked by everybody in America except the left wing socialists that Obama was forced to sacked his long time friend for having anything to do with the release of info and no information has been shared with regards to interrogation or treatment. Your courts choice to release this information will greatly reduce USA's willingness in future intelligence sharing at great cost to your country. Obama is scared because all the Liberals are getting voted out of office and soon we will be a respected and feared world power again. You guys are my ancestors and I feel for your governments liberal agenda but trust me in telling you that this judgment will hurt both of our intelligence wings :(

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Turnberry18 02/11/2010 08:08 AM


so, mr coughlin, you suggest our judges approve that this country resorts to the use of torture? this could perhaps easy to implement, why doesnt this government state under statute that the use of torture is permissable? its no use complaining that our judges have found us to be breach of international law when our policy makers have signed up for it; your piece is mischeivious and more akin to a scapegoat leader, and suggests that these lawyers are acting from an ethical rather than legal framework. now to the ethics: there is very little evidence that torture actually works, and quite a degree of evidence that those being tortured are more likely to tell their torturers what they want to hear, that is an important distinction, but doesnt deal with the more important question- do we really want to belong to a society that administers torture in order to gain information; where does this end? You then end your piece with might have been the pretext of your complaint in the first place (and a very dangerous pretext it is) you state a very informed suspicion that the Americans, alarmed at the willingness of our judges to humiliate them in public, decide to scale down the level of cooperation, our national security will undoubtedly be placed in jeopardy, is that really the case? if so, then it is the duty of our government to get clarity on this; after all, the lives of our soldiers are being used to chase after american folly around the middle east, the least we should expect is for them to inform when the implementation of these
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policies put our civilian population in peril. no, mr coughlin, maybe we wont blame the judges when the next bomb goes off in london, maybe wel blame those who may have obtained false information through torture

peterhirsch 02/11/2010 07:19 AM


Mr Couglin, the United Kingdom still has some shreds of honour left and still some respect for the rule of law, for justice and for civilized behaviour. Most of the Queens subjects require their government to subscribe to standards that exclude torture. Most of us regard torture as barbaric. It is illegal here. We do not want to be associated with those that practice it and that practice must be exposed, whether it is approved by backward countries like Iran or by the United States. And if the government of the United States does not want its use of torture exposed, then it must not practice it or permit it. That does not mean in any way that we should fail to go after terrorists and those who promote terrorism in our own country: and expel them to where they came from or to places like what they would wish to make our country. Or lock them up for much, much longer than we do. Nor does it mean we should go interfering in other people's countries and becoming involved in foreign military adventures both illegal and likely to be neither profitable nor successful. We do not like it when judges are too lax, so that the law is not applied. Nor do we approve of laws that oppress our ancient freedoms. Nor will we tolerate the abuse of law - national or natural - by governments and their servants. On this occasion the judges got it right. They do not always but give them credit when credit is due. But you, Con, got it wrong!

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davetherave46 02/11/2010 07:03 AM


Mr Carr:I challenge your comment "Judges don't make the law.They just apply it". If that is so why can Spanish judges order the destruction of homes of British ex pats who have no where else to live ,when our Judges order we can't touch the homes of Travellers who have nowhere else to live? Why can France order that British expats do not have the right to free French health care unless they have paid taxes into the system for at least 3 years,whereas British Judges would say it was an infringement of a basic human right if our Government tried to do the same here?. Why isn't France ordered by her judiciary to provide homes and welfare services for the refugees living rough in Calais? Why can Italy and France deport their undesirables and we can't even though they have signed up to the same Human Rights Act? The answer is:Our Judges don't apply the law as it is but as they think it should be.They are unelected and make me feel it is no use voting in the coming election because any Party's manifesto will be defeated in the Courts not in the debating chamber. How do I know there are not some Judges who have a personal political agenda? We have just had a Judge direct that a Sikh child can carry a ceremonial dagger in school. The judge was a Sikh. why didn't he excuse himself from the case?

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david 02/11/2010 07:01 AM


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Human rights people, what about my human rights?. Born and bred here, 71yrs old, live in a north west city frightend to go out at night. We are OVER RUN with immigrants!.

PeterH 02/11/2010 06:42 AM


Why is it that the Human Rights people very rarely, if ever, complain about the Taliban or Somali pirates, or any of the terrorist organisations about their disregard for human rights?

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jollyjack 02/11/2010 05:52 AM


No Con I don't blame the judges. I blame the Labour party for throwing open the doors to uncontrolled immigration in 1948. The Conservatives have had 39 years in power in which they could have closed it again. If you don't tread in dog sh*t you don't trail it into your house do you.

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antrich 02/11/2010 05:44 AM


I have heard it all - Please try to appreciate that in order to win the overall battle we need to show that our system is better than the one our Opponents use. To do that we need to be open about what and how e do it. Apply undue force to a Prisoner and he/she will just tell you what you want to know. Persuade him that our just system is better and you will have a friend for life. Remember that suppression has never succeeded in the annuls of history!

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nittwitt 02/11/2010 05:21 AM


@pragmatist I hadn't heard of the IRA buffoon before? Are they muslim terrorists that we're fighting in the war on terror? What a dumb ass! A true Telegraph chinless wonder.

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