avs anil celeron an sarge ant Grol CEO Ee Sei Transcript of secret meeting between Julian Assange and Google CEO Eric Schmidt Friday April 19, 2013 On the 23 of June, 2011 a secret five hour meeting took place between WikiLeaks publisher Julian Assange, who was under house arrestin rural UK atthe time and Google CEO Eric Schmidt. Ako in attendance was Jared Cohen, a former Secretary of State advisor to Hillary Clinton, Scott Malcomson, Director of Speechwriting for Ambassador Susan Rice at the US State Department and current Communications Director ofthe International Crisis Group, and Lisa Shields, Vice President of the Council on Foreign Relations. Schmidt and Cohen requested the meeting, they said, to discuss ideas for "The ‘New Digital World’, their forthcoming book to be published on April 23, 2013 We provide here a verbatim transcript of the majority of the meeting; a close reading, particularly of the latter half, is revealing, [beginning of tape] ES Well do you want us to start eating? JA Well, we can do both. ES Yeah, is that ok? So this is... what's the date? ikea orgranscript Meeting-Assange-Schrrict 1108.aus TA LS JA LS JA ES JA ES JA ES Transcript of secret maeting between Julan Assange and Google CEO Erie Schmidt June 23rd June 23rd, This is a recording between Julian Assange, Eric Schmidt and...” Lisa Shields Lisa Shiekds. To be used in a book by Erie Schmidt, due to be published by Knopfin October 2012. I have been given a guarantee that I will see the transcript and will be able to adjust it for accuracy and clarity. Can we start... I want to talk a lttle about Thor. Right. The sort of, the whole Navy network and... Tor or Thor? Yeah, actually I mean Tor. Uh... And Odin as well. ‘That's right, sorry. Tor, uh, and the Navy network, and I don't actually understand how all of that worked. And the reason I'm mentioning this is I'm...1'm fundamentally interested in what happens with that technology as it evolves. Right. And so, the problem I would assert, is that if you're trying to receive data you need to have a guarantee of anonymity to the sender, you need to have a secure channel to the recipient, the recipient needs to be replicated, you know... What I'd ike you to do is if you could just tak a bit about that architecture, what you did in WikiLeaks technically, you know, with the sort of the technical ikea orgranscript Meeting-Assange-Schrrict 2105aus JA ES JA Transcript of secret maeting between Julan Assange and Google CEO Erie Schmidt innovations that were needed and maybe also what happens, You know, how does it evolv ahvays evolves. ‘echnology Let me first frame this. I looked at something that I had seen going on with the world. Which is that I thought there were too many unjust acts OK And I wanted there to be more just acts, and fewer unjust acts, And one can sort of say, well what are your philosophical axioms for this? And I say I do not need to consider them, This is simply my temperament. And itis an axiom because itis that way. And so that avoids, then, getting into further unhelpful discussions about why you want to do something. It is enough that I do, So in considering how unjust aets are caused and what tends to promote them and what promotes just acts I saw that human beings are basically invariant, That is that their inclinations and biological temperament haven't changed much over thousands of years and so therefore the only playing field left is: what do they have? And what do they know? And "have" is something that is fairly hard to influence, so that is what resources do they have at their disposal? And how much energy they can hamess, and what are the supplies and so on, But what they know can be affected in a nonlnear way because when one person conveys information to another they can convey on to another and another and so on ina way that nonlinear and so you can affect a lot of people with a small amount of information, And therefore you can change the behaviour of many people with a small amount of information. So the question then arises as to what kinds of information will produce behaviour which is just? And disincentivise behaviour which is unjust? So all around the world there are people observing different parts of what is happening to them locally. And there are other people that ikea orgranscript Meeting-Assange-Schrrict 05.