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HUMAN TRAFFICKING: A CONVERSATION WITH MRS. MCCAIN AND GOV. CHRISTIE

Oliver Harper: [0:11] It's my great pleasure to have been asked yesterday to introduce Cindy McCain and Governor Christie. The Harpers have had the special privilege of being friends with the McCains for many years, social friends, political friends, and great admirers of the family. [0:33] Cindy is a remarkable person. She's known for her incredible service to the community, to the country, and to the world. She has a passion for doing things right and making the world better. [0:48] Cindy, after her education at USC in special ed, became a teacher at Agua Fria High School in special ed and had a successful career there. She also progressed to become the leader of the family company, Hensley & Company, and continues to lead them to great heights. [1:13] Cindy's interest in the world and special issues has become very apparent over the years. She serves on the board of the HALO Trust. She serves on the board of Operation Smile and of CARE. [1:31] Her special leadership as part of the McCain Institute and her special interest and where her heart is now is in conquering the terrible scourge of human trafficking and bringing those victims of human trafficking to a full, free life as God intended them to have. [1:57] I want to tell you just a quick personal experience with the McCains. Sharon and I will socialize with them often. We'll say, "What are you going to be doing next week, Sharon or Ollie?" [2:10] Then we'll ask the McCains what they're doing. She'll say, "John's in Afghanistan. I'm going to the eastern Congo. We'll be back next weekend. We'll see you then." Anyway, it's a remarkable privilege to be able to introduce Cindy. [2:24] Governor Christie, what a star he is on the political horizon. He just had a tremendous victory in New Jersey, a resounding victory in a state where his party was in the great minority. He proved himself a hero, a leader, and a man of the people during the tragedy of Hurricane Sandy. He showed up. He did what was right. He embraced people. He helped them on the road to rebuilding. He really became America's Governor for a period of time. [3:04] Governor Christie, born and raised in New Jersey, only left New Jersey to live in Delaware for four years, when he went to the University of Delaware. Met his wonderful wife, Mary Pat, there. He then came back. He entered significant public service when he was appointed as United States Attorney in September of 2001, and had a very successful career as a US Attorney, with a record of something like 130 convictions and no acquittals. [3:42] He's done a remarkable job for the State of New Jersey. If you'd permit me, I'm going to read a quote of his that he had in his address to the Republican convention, which sums up what he's all about.

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[4:01] The quote. "We are the great grandchildren of the people who broke their backs in the name of American ingenuity, the grandchildren of the Greatest Generation, the sons and daughters of immigrants, the brothers and sisters of everyday heroes. The neighbors of entrepreneurs and firefighters, teachers, farmers, veterans, factory workers, and everyone in between who shows up not just on the big days, but on the bad days and the hard days, each and every day, all 365 of them." [4:33] Governor Chris Christie shows up in force, all 365. It's my great pleasure, now, to introduce Cindy McCain and Governor Chris Christie. [4:45] [applause] Cindy McCain: [4:59] Thank you very much. Oliver: [5:01] You bet. Governor. Cindy: [5:07] Welcome, everyone. Thank you for coming. Before we get going...I know I have a lot of questions for Governor Christie, but I'd like our Arizona Human Trafficking Task Force members to please stand up, show your faces, and let us acknowledge you for the hard work that you have done on this. [5:26] [applause] Cindy: [5:36] It's just the beginning. Governor, thank you so much for being here. Governor Chris Christie: [5:41] My pleasure. Cindy: [5:42] We, as a group of people that are working specifically on human trafficking, look to you this year because New Jersey has the next run at the Super Bowl, so we'd like to hear from you about not only what's going on, but how you have accomplished what you have accomplished in this short time, and what your goal is, the long-term goal. Gov. Christie: [6:04] First off, it's hard, I think, for folks in this country to grasp the fact that the Super Bowl is the biggest human trafficking event of the year in the United States. It's extraordinary to think that we will have young women, young men enslaved by folks who are coming to enjoy a football game. [6:34] The connection is interesting, because it's really almost any big event that this happens in. I can go through some of the legislation that we've passed, some of the work that we've done. I'm sure we'll talk about that over the course of our conversation. But the biggest thing for people here to make sure you grasp is why this is so difficult to uncover. [6:59] Remember that most of these young men and women come from countries where law enforcement is corrupt. When they come to this country, usually under the promise of a better life, a free life, a prosperous life in America...They get here. Their passports are taken. All their identity is stolen. They're put into either the sex trade or sometimes other types of involuntary servitude 12-14 hours a day.

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[7:35] It's not only that they fear for their family back home. Most of the time, what these folks will do is threaten them by saying, "We know where your mother lives. We know where your father lives. We know where your brothers and sisters are. If you don't do what we tell you, we'll have them killed." Imagine being a 15, 16, 17, 18 year old young man or woman, and being faced with that choice. [8:01] Secondly, they don't go to law enforcement because they think law enforcement's part of the problem, because in their countries law enforcement is corrupt. People say, "Why don't they say something when they run across a police officer or someone that could help them?" Well, they believe that they're all in the...and the captors reinforce that belief. They know the culture in their home country, and they reinforce the belief. [8:23] The reason this is so problematic and difficult is that normal law enforcement techniques are relatively ineffective in this way. That's why we have to do a lot of other different things that we've been trying to do. When you also bring into it the event of a Super Bowl, all the hundreds of thousands of people, both who work the event and who are going to the event, who come into an area like New Jersey or, next year, like here in Arizona, law enforcement is focused on a lot of other things. [8:55] Part of what our effort is in New Jersey and what yours is going to be here is to make sure that we put some of that focus on preventing this, because this ruins lives. It absolutely ruins lives. Cindy: [9:07] It does. You did some interesting things with your legislation, though. You have encouraged the use of the hotline and the posting of the hotline. You've encouraged a whole lot of things that are what I view as part of the NGO community in all of this. I think that's innovative, and I also think it's really necessary. [9:28] We're hoping that our governor does the same thing. She's been a remarkable supporter on this for us. We hope to have good things come out of this. [9:38] What is the difficulty in your proximity to Manhattan? How does this wind into this? Gov. Christie: [9:43] It's the situation that we have in New Jersey, and then our proximity to New York City also. First, start with New Jersey. We are the most densely populated state in America. Secondly, we are the most ethnically diverse state in America. [9:58] What does this mean for human trafficking? What it means is that you can hide in plain sight. No matter what ethnicity you are, there is a neighborhood in New Jersey -- usually a dense, urban neighborhood in New Jersey -- where you look like everybody else and you sound like everybody else. As a result, for law enforcement it's very difficult to discern who might be there by choice and who's there through coercion. [10:27] Secondly then, with New York City, the airports in New York and New Jersey, the three major airports -- Kennedy, La Guardia, and Newark Liberty -- combined, are the busiest air traffic point in the country. Policing those people coming in and out is incredibly challenging. [10:48] You add the ethnic diversity and density of New York City, and the ease of movement over the Hudson River, the opportunity to hide folks and to evade law enforcement is incredible. We

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have 8.8 million people in New Jersey. You have 8.4 million people just in the City of New York. Of our 8.8 million folks, about 6 million live in the northern portion of our state. So you're talking about, in that area, about 14 million people in a very small area of real estate. Cindy: [11:24] Obviously, your first responders from both Manhattan and from New Jersey have to work closely together. In terms of coordinating, I'm assuming they've gone through a training process that included both teams at the same time. What was your opinion of how they were trained, and are they trained well enough? We're dealing with this here. Gov. Christie: [11:47] Not yet. Listen, the training is the hardest part. Paul Charlton, here, was the US Attorney in Arizona when I was the US Attorney in New Jersey. While we have great admiration and respect for the agents and officers that we worked with, what we also would tell you at a really honest moment is, trying to change their point of view on certain things is a process at times. [12:10] The training for human trafficking is different. It's different. You have to use different techniques to try and figure it out, because of the lack of trust issue, because of the lack of transparency that we talked about. [12:23] What's happened in our state, part of the challenge is that the NYPD is a big, big organization, so the training doesn't happen together. What we're trying to do, through the legislation we did and the cooperation with Mayor Bloomberg, is to say there should be consistency in that training. They won't be able to do it together, but there should be a consistency in message on trafficking that can help us to be able to work across the river together, and use the same type of technique so that it's more seamless. [12:53] That's one of the real challenges. Remember, you also have federal agents involved, that I don't have jurisdiction over, as Governor. So you need to bring the US Attorney into play, the special agent in charge of the FBI, and the other federal agencies that get involved in this. From a law enforcement perspective, it's a very complex challenge. [13:11] The help of the Super Bowl is that all those people are in the same room for the Super Bowl. It's a national security event. The Secret Service takes the lead, coordinates, and brings all those different agencies together. [13:23] What we've tried to do in New Jersey is to make this a priority to the Super Bowl Host Committee and to the Secret Service in their protection of the event. We've been successful at that. I think that you'll see some good results that come out of that joint work. You'll have the same opportunity to do that in Arizona when they turn their attention on February 3 to here. Cindy: [13:43] With that, we face something here that is a national issue. The owners are here in Arizona. This is this publication called Backpage.com. The task force spent a lot of time on this particular issue. They came and actually testified in front of us, which they had not done before. [14:07] Craigslist had the foresight and the decency to stop selling children and women on the Internet. Backpage has not. In fact, they've increased their involvement in this and, to all of us, said that they're not doing anything wrong, that in fact they're helping the police by staying in business.

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[14:25] How do you get around...I'm not trying to get around the First Amendment, but what do you do with something like that? Gov. Christie: [14:30] We faced this challenge in New Jersey. We passed a law in New Jersey that went after this. It was overturned by the federal courts. It is a really sticky First Amendment issue. The federal courts in the district of New Jersey overturned the legislation that we passed, that was very aggressive against organizations like this. [14:48] Listen, I think that, as public officials and as community leaders, the only thing that will change their conduct is shame. You need to loudly and clearly shame them. They may have a First Amendment right to do what they do, but you have a First Amendment right to shame them. I try to remind these folks all the time, the First Amendment works both ways. [15:11] [applause] Cindy: [15:14] I agree. I agree. Gov. Christie: [15:16] My point of view is that they do some things that are absolutely reprehensible and disgusting, and injurious to innocent people. If they're engaged in that conduct, getting a little verbal abuse from me is the least they should get in return. [15:35] [laughter] Gov. Christie: [15:37] They can hardly complain. They hardly have standing to complain. I think non-governmental organizations also need to be involved in speaking out about this. Public shame can change conduct. [15:52] As long as it's fact-based -- believe me, we have plenty of facts on our side to be able to make it fact-based -- we can begin to change attitudes, and also have public pressure go upon a group like Backpage to change their practices, as so many other organizations have, based upon perhaps decency of their own, but also I don't doubt for a second that public pressure had something to do with it. Cindy: [16:18] We were astounded. During their testimony, Andrew Pacheco -- where are you, Andrew? -- was diligently working on his iPhone when the lawyer said, "We field everything. Nothing gets on there that we haven't looked at and clearly gone through. There's nothing bad going on." Andrew pulled it up on his iPhone while we were sitting there. [16:44] The problem that we have here is that the owners are based here, which is very embarrassing, I think, as someone who's from this state, and I think everyone else. Also, they're such a big money maker that they are able to hire the people, the lawyers, and all the other stuff to shield them from what you said. Do you think we should have federal involvement in trying to stop this thing? Gov. Christie: [17:12] It's an interesting constitutional question. I think that Congress should be grappling with this issue. The fact is, we tried to do it in New Jersey, and we got reversed by the federal courts of our state. The question's going to be whether or not laws being changed is going to be permitted to change that conduct.

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[17:35] I tend to think, given what we tried to do, that that's not going to be the way to go, that ultimately it's going to have to be publicly shaming these folks. They get emboldened every time they reverse an action, and they double up their efforts. We may have to take a different tack. [17:56] Now, there might be some federal constitutional lawyers -- I am not one -- who might argue to you there's a way to narrowly tailor this at the federal level to get it done. I'm not expert enough on that to be able to give an opinion, but what I will say is that I know for sure there's not going to be anybody who's going to overturn our ability to be able to call these folks out and take them from the "Backpage" and put them on the front page. Cindy: [18:19] I like that. Thank you, that's a great line. [18:21] [applause] Cindy: [18:21] I love that. I'm going to steal that from you. I like that. I'm a big-mouth. I can do that. Gov. Christie: [18:26] Good. Cindy: [18:29] Here, particularly on the border, we deal with all kinds of issues regarding border issues and immigration, as you do in New Jersey. How do you think -- or do you think -- there is a problem with human trafficking flowing, not just our southern border but over our northern border? [18:51] I've been told different things about this, that really that's not the issue; it's more about internal trafficking. What's your opinion on whether or not the borders...how they play in this? Gov. Christie: [19:02] Our experience is that it's every port of entry. It doesn't matter whether you're talking about the southern border or the border with Canada, or whether you're talking about a New York City airport, or an airport in St. Louis, Missouri. It happens everywhere. It happens in every urban area of this country. Cindy: [19:24] Every neighborhood, is what I tell people. Gov. Christie: [19:25] You bet. It is absolutely true. [19:29] While I think there's validity to the discussion of the border, I think that's misunderstanding the scope of the problem. The scope is much larger than a border-crossing problem. This is an organized effort at something that's been going on in our world forever, which is greed for free labor that creates exorbitant profit. That's what this is. [20:01] In some ways, we don't have to make it more complicated than what it is. These folks set up criminal enterprises in order to exploit free labor for their own exorbitant profit. That's what it is. It's worse than other types of greed because this is greed that causes injury that's permanent to the people who are involved, and that many of them never get over. [20:26] I think the border is an issue, but it's no more an issue than New York City or New Jersey airports or St. Louis airports or Minneapolis airports. You can fly them in from any place in the world. They come up with a plan to be able to bring them in.

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[20:42] We did a bunch of these cases in New Jersey when I was US Attorney. We had a big case where the women themselves testified. They had been in servitude for years in the sex trade. [20:58] I'll never forget this one woman, 19 years old. Been in servitude since she was 15. Imagine the power of a young woman sitting on the witness stand in a federal courtroom in Newark, New Jersey, with the defendant sitting at the table, and saying, "I was forced to perform 10 to 12 sex acts a day, six days a week, for three years." [21:30] All she got was minimally sustaining food and water. She was not allowed to speak. If she spoke to the other girls in the place, she was beaten. When she went out, she went out with an assigned master who watched her every move. This is what we're talking about, everybody. We're not talking about anything other than abject slavery of people. [22:02] I remember sitting in that courtroom, listening to her testify. You could see that jury. They did what they needed to do, which was to send the people who perpetrated this crime to jail for 30 years at the end of that trial. [22:19] We need to understand the scope of this. It's not just an Arizona/New Mexico/Texas problem. It's not. It's a problem in every corner of this country. Because of America's greatness, this is why it happens. I'll stop my answer, because I know I'm going on for a bit here. Cindy: [22:36] That's OK. Gov. Christie: [22:38] It's America's greatness that lures them here. These criminals play on people's heartfelt desire to come to this country and be free. They come from, often, economically depressed, socially repressed countries, where America is the absolute shining light for them and their hope for a better and different life than their parents or grandparents have had. [23:04] They play on that aspiration and on America's greatness to lure these young people and then to entrap them and enslave them for their own profit. If there's anything more amoral than playing on someone's dreams in order to destroy them, I don't know what is. Cindy: [23:27] Once you are able to rescue or save a victim, in whatever capacity it happens, what capacity do you have to then help them move on with their lives? Gov. Christie: [23:42] It's been a great partnership in New Jersey with the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church is the non-governmental organization that's taken the boldest lead in our state on this, creating safe houses for these young men and women to live in as they're getting psychiatric treatment and medical treatment, and getting real nutrition to get themselves to the point...Most of these folks don't even have clothes, except the clothes on their back. [24:10] The Archdiocese of Newark in New Jersey has been incredibly active in setting up all of these functions. Our state Department of Human Services has partnered with the Catholic Church to provide psychological, psychiatric services as appropriate. Our Department of Agriculture to be able to provide the right types of nutrition for them right at the beginning, when they're saved. [24:38] It's a months-long process. These girls I was just talking about, who testified in that case, lived in this halfway house for six months. It took that long just to stabilize them, to get them ready to reenter normal society.

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[24:54] The other thing that the Human Trafficking Act, the federal Act, permits is special visas for their families. What we also then facilitate, along with federal law enforcement...Once they're saved and they're safe, we then get information from them about where are their families. There are special visas that bring their families to the United States so that they can create a nurturing relationship and atmosphere for this victim. [25:21] It's not that they have to stay here by themselves, but for those who want to stay, we bring their families here. They get to live here under special visas that have been set up under the Act. That's extraordinarily helpful in their recovery, to get a parent or parents or a brother or sister, whoever's available to them, to come here and not have to worry about going through the really cumbersome process of entering the country, but to know that they have a special type of visa just for them to take care of their loved one who is a victim. Cindy: [25:54] A large portion of the young men and women that we find and rescue..."We," I mean these gracious, lovely people that work this every day on the streets. They can get them maybe into a facility, but the difficulty is how we're funding it, how they can get help, do they have the right licensing. [26:14] Arizona is really struggling with being able to make this an easier process for these girls and boys, and making sure that they are helped significantly before we turn them [indecipherable 26:24] . We deal with more domestic out here. The portion of that that we need to work on...Our state's trying to figure all of this out right now. I know our Governor is working on it very hard. [26:40] May I change the subject just a bit? Gov. Christie: [26:42] Sure. Cindy: [26:45] We talked about comprehensive immigration. As you know, the Senate voted on it. The House won't even hear it. How do we begin to work with a Senate and a House that won't even talk to each other, and won't even agree to disagree on anything? If you can answer this, we're good. [27:09] [laughter] Gov. Christie: [27:12] Let's start off with what I think the causation of the disease is. The first causation of the disease is a lack of Presidential leadership. I work with a Democratic legislature every day; 24 to 16 in the Senate, 48 to 32 in the lower House, so it's not close. It's not just because they're Democrats. It would be the same way if they were Republicans. If I wait for them to lead on an issue, I'll be waiting for my entire career. [27:50] Legislative bodies are absolutely, I think by design, ill-disposed to provide leadership. You start off with that as the premise, and see a President now who simply refuses to engage. If he's uncomfortable, he refuses to engage, or he engages only in the politics of it. That's a problem. [28:16] If you want bipartisanship, the President is the one who has to lead on bipartisanship, the way the Governor in a state has to lead on bipartisanship. I'm the one who has to show I'm willing to compromise. I'm the one who has to bring people into the room and keep them there until we come to an agreement. I'm the one who's got to lay out the broad vision of where we're heading.

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Even though there will be disagreements on road to the accomplishment of that vision, the executive has to lead in that regard. [28:43] Second, these folks in Congress don't talk to each other anymore. There's almost a penalty for being friends with somebody on the other side. [28:58] Politics is simple. It really is. We don't make anything. We don't produce anything of value. All we have are relationships, trusting relationships which forge compromise, which develop and bring about accomplishment. That's it. If we don't have that, we've got nothing [29:19] That's why Congress is at nine percent popularity today. The only thing that surprises me about Congress being at nine percent popularity is...I would love to get a whole slew of former federal agents who are now retired and want something to do. "I want you to find the nine percent." [29:34] [laughter] Cindy: [29:38] Paid staff and blood relatives. Gov. Christie: [29:40] I want you to find the nine percent of the people who go, "I love this. This is good. What's going on down there right now? Fabulous! I want more of it." [29:51] I'd like to bring a sample of those nine percent into a room and talk to them for a few minutes. "Really?" I don't care whether you're a Republican, a Democrat, or Independent. You look at this, and you go, "I love this. I love the idea that they don't talk to each other. I love that they don't pass anything. I love that the majority tramples on the rights of the minority. I love that the minority obstructs the vision of the majority. I love this. This is great stuff. Let's have more." [30:22] It is such an abject failure at this point. Whether it's immigration reform or whether it's any of the other issues -- the tax reform that we need, the entitlement reform that we desperately need for our country to be secure long term, economically, all the difficult issues that need to be addressed -- nobody wants to address them. They're too busy fighting with each other, raising money for their PACs, sending out press releases that mischaracterize and attack the other side, and then holding press conferences. [30:54] There are two places that, if I were the ultimate ruler of the world, that I would love to get rid of. One is that bank of microphones that apparently is outside the House of Representatives and the United States Senate, where they all come to pontificate. They rush to them. The most dangerous 10 yards in Washington DC? [31:17] [laughter] Gov. Christie: [31:19] Don't get in between those men and women and that set of microphones, where they all sit with bated breath, waiting for the next horrible thing to be said about the other side. [31:30] And the bank of microphones outside the West Wing of the White House, where they all come out after a pretend meeting and then say awful things. I feel like if you could ban those two areas, you'd really start to make progress.

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[31:47] [laughter] Gov. Christie: [31:50] The problem is that, in the end, the federal guys are not required to produce any results. You would never, ever put up with this from a Governor. Ever. If I was in the corner, holding my breath and saying, "I don't agree with them, they don't agree with me. To hell with it. I'm going to play golf, I'm going to raise some money, I'll put out some pithy press releases, and then I'm done," I would be done. My rear end would be on the curb at the next election, and rightfully so. [32:24] Part of it is that we've come to accept too little, and demand too little, and we don't really, truly reward the people who are willing to step across the aisle. We say we want it. [32:36] I saw this in New Jersey in my last election. We had 60-plus elected officials -- Democrats, elected Democrats -- endorse me publicly for reelection. Those men and women were so excoriated by the press and by other Democrats for supporting a Republican. [32:58] I thought, "You want bipartisanship, right?" The newspapers write it all the time, "We want bipartisan..." "If only they could be bipartisan." Read the editorial pages. I don't care whether it's here in Arizona, or in New Jersey, or any place in between, they all want bipartisanship. [33:10] But when someone does it, they say, "Oh, there must be something fishy there." These people were getting accused. "We'd like to know what deals were made in the back room there, for them to support this Republican." Well, you can't have it both ways, man. If you're going to excoriate people for being bipartisan -- they're not stupid -- they won't be bipartisan then. [33:30] We have to create an atmosphere, like we do in a lot of these states, that says, "What we expect you to do is do your job. Get your job done first. I don't care, quite frankly, how you do it, as long as it's legal and ethical. Get it done. That's it." Cindy: [33:47] I agree. [33:48] [applause] Cindy: [33:53] You had a remarkable reelection. What a lot of us enjoyed watching was the percentage of the Hispanic vote that you gained through this. This is not the case in other parts of the country and with other Republican candidates. What would your advice be to the Republican Party about inclusion of Hispanics and other minorities, and conducting elections in a way that...? You were such an inspiration to folks around the country. Gov. Christie: [34:28] Thanks. Show up. Cindy: [34:31] "Show up." I agree. Gov. Christie: [34:32] Show up. Listen, I won 51 percent of the Hispanic vote in New Jersey. I won 21 percent of the African American vote after getting 7 percent of the African American vote four years ago. We tripled the African American vote. How? I showed up. For four years, I showed up. I went and listened, and I told them what I thought. Sometimes they agreed, sometimes they didn't.

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[34:59] I think that what's happened to us as a party is, we refuse any longer to campaign in uncomfortable places. We always want to campaign where we're comfortable. "Let's get to the Chamber of Commerce. Come on. Let's do that Chamber of Commerce lunch." We Republicans, we're comfy there. No problem, right? [35:18] [laughter] Gov. Christie: [35:18] Nothing wrong with that. I love being at the Chamber of Commerce luncheon, and I love their support. But if we want to broaden our party, we have to go to places where we're uncomfortable. [35:28] It is uncomfortable. Let's not pretend it's not uncomfortable. When you initially go there, it's uncomfortable. I did a town hall meeting in a city in my state called Irvington. Now, Irvington is about a 20,000-person city. It is predominantly African American. In 2009, I got 4.7 percent of the vote in Irvington. [35:55] As governor, I did 108 town hall meetings in my first four years. I did one of them in Irvington at the Christian Love Baptist Church. I asked the pastor if I could come and do a town hall meeting there. He agreed. When I showed up there that day, I said to him, "Pastor, how many people are here?" [36:12] He said, "It's a huge crowd, Governor. The entire church is filled. We had to set up an overflow room with a TV screen. We have 550 people here." In 2009, 486 people voted for me in Irvington. We had more people in the room for my town hall meeting than had voted for me. [36:33] Now, most of the time when you're Governor and you walk into a town hall meeting, people stand. There's raucous applause like what you all did for me and Mrs. McCain when we walked in here. It's really great. [36:44] I walked into the Christian Love Baptist Church that day, and it went something like this. "Ladies and gentlemen, the 55th Governor of New Jersey, Chris Christie." [36:53] [single clap] [36:55] [laughter] [36:57] [single claps] Gov. Christie: [37:02] I walked out onto the altar, not to my usual reception. If any politician tells you that at that moment they're comfortable, they're lying. You're sweating, you're worried. I'm looking out on a bunch of people, not like this group right now. I'm looking at a bunch of people like this. [37:20] [laughter] Cindy: [37:25] I've been to a few of those. Gov. Christie: [37:26] "OK, buddy, bring it. Let's see what you've got." I started out by telling that I'd gotten 4.7 percent of the vote in Irvington in 2009. "I know some of you consider my

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policies divisive. Some of you may disagree with me on a whole range of issues. But I'm not divisive. I got 4.7 percent of the vote in Irvington. That means I united 95 percent of the people of Irvington." [37:51] [laughter] Gov. Christie: [37:54] "I brought them together for my opponent." They all laughed like you did, and then we started to listen to each other. [38:03] In the end, I don't think people vote based upon writing on a yellow legal pad with a line down the middle, "Here are the pros, here are the cons." I don't think that's the way people vote. I think the way people vote is from here. [38:19] First, they've got to know you and trust you, think that you believe in them and care about them, and maybe understand their life a little bit. They might go to the pro and con list after that, but if you don't get past that threshold, you've no chance. [38:39] They're never going, "You know, I don't know him all that well and I don't trust him. I don't think he necessarily cares about me, but boy I like his position on X, so I'm going to vote for him." What they think is your position on X is probably BS because they don't know you and they don't trust you. [38:55] As a Republican Party, I think we have to campaign in places where we're uncomfortable. We can't expect, in this 24-hour cable, instant gratification society, that we're going to get great numbers right away. I showed up in the campaign in '09 and got 4.7 percent in Irvington. What happened this time? Eighteen percent in Irvington. Eighteen percent. [39:17] Now, some people will look at it and go, "Eighteen percent? You got killed, 80-18." The Independents picked up a few votes. "80-18, you got killed." [39:27] I said, "No, man. I quadrupled my vote, nearly, in Irvington. I nearly quadrupled it". That's pretty good. That's the way we have to look at it, as a party. If what we're expecting is instant gratification and immediate success, we're going to fail. [39:47] People say, "How did you get to 61 percent in a blue state that Barack Obama won with 58 percent a year earlier?" Show up and listen, and don't vilify people because they disagree with you. [40:03] Disagree with them. I disagree with them plenty in public. Any of you who have seen me, I'm not a shy, retiring guy. I'm not someone who's reluctant to express my views or to get in a good fight every once in a while, or more than every once in a while. But there's a difference. [40:21] I'll end with this. One woman said to me during the campaign...I went up to her at a diner in New Jersey. I said, "I'm Chris Christie." [40:32] She goes, "I know who you are, Governor." [40:34] I said, "I'd love to have your support." [40:36] She said to me, "Well, I disagree with you on a lot of issues."

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[40:41] I said, "Oh, this is not going to go well." [40:44] She says to me, "But you know what? You do what you say you're going to do, and I trust you, so I'm going to vote for you anyway." [40:55] That happens. You can't get, like I did, a third of the Democrat vote...a third of the Democrats who voted, voted for me. You can't get that based just on issues, because we don't agree. But that's not the way people vote. It just isn't. [41:16] As Republicans, if we continue to think...Last point. This is what tends to make people contort themselves. They think, "I believe this, but you believe that, so I've got to look in your eyes and try to figure out, 'What is it that you want to hear?' I'm going to figure it out, because I'm good at this. I'm a politician and a pretty good one. I'm going to figure it out, and then I'm going to tell you what you want to hear. Then I'm going to pray to God you forget that I told you I'd do it, when I don't." [41:52] We're encouraging that type of conduct. What we need to encourage is, "I tell you what I think. If what I tell you is opposite of your single most important position that you care about the most, then I need to invite you to vote for the other guy. Vote for the other guy. I'm not going to contort myself into a pretzel to comply with what you want. I'm not going to do it." [42:19] [applause] Gov. Christie: [42:24] Too many of our politicians have gotten themselves in that position. It just isn't ultimately successful. Voters don't believe you then. When you don't have credibility, you're finished in this business. [42:35] It goes back to what I said before. We don't make anything. If all we have is our trust and our credibility and our backbone, and we give that away for a title? What you become then, in politics at that point, is what my old high school history professor used to say. He said, "A leader without followers is just a guy out for a walk." [42:56] [laughter] Cindy: [42:57] That's true. Gov. Christie: [42:58] If they don't believe you believe in anything anymore, why will they follow you? Some people will follow you even if they don't agree with everything you believe, but they believe in you. They believe in you, and that's where we need to get to, as a party. [43:17] Our most effective leaders have been folks who created in the public, for a moment or for a longer period of time, the sense that, "He or she cares about me, understands me, and has a clear idea of who they are and where they want to lead." You create that, you create a movement. You don't create that, you lose. Cindy: [43:45] Yeah, you're very right. Gov. Christie: [43:46] It's not complicated, and it's not about any one issue. Don't look for, "Oh, if Republicans only did..." fill in the blank. If we think that just by having immigration reform,

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we're going to win the Hispanic vote, like that's going to be some kind of magic thing, I would suggest to you that that's insulting Hispanic voters all over this country, to think that that's the only way they decide how to vote. [44:16] The fact is that they want to have a seat at the table, to influence policy. Not to always get their way, but to influence policy and be taken seriously, be listened to. Then you can start to try to bring them onto your movement. That's what I think our party needs to do. Cindy: [44:38] Thank you. Thank you. [44:39] [applause] Cindy: [44:45] I see staff in the corner, all going like this. That's usually the universal sign for "Let's get rolling." Thank you so much for coming. Gov. Christie: [44:52] Thank you. Cindy: [44:55] Our task force and the rest of the folks in Arizona that are really trying to stop human trafficking are very excited to see what comes out of New Jersey with this event, and onward from there. We look forward to working with you, as well. Gov. Christie: [45:08] Me, too. Cindy: [45:09] We really appreciate you taking time for being here, because I know your schedule is just crazy right now. My best to your family. Gov. Christie: [45:16] Thank you. Cindy: [45:17] I know public life can be challenging at times. Be nice to your wife. [45:23] [laughter] Gov. Christie: [45:25] I'll tell her you said that. Cindy: [45:27] Thank you so much for coming. Thank you so much for coming. Thank you. [45:29] [applause]