From bvml.

org Colloquies with Foreigners

by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura

Talk to Dr. Magnus Hirsch o Berlin !nterview with "ro essor #ohans Head o the De$artment o "hiloso$hy St. %aviers College Talk to Herr Baron H.&. 'on (oeth and Herr &.). Schul*e Talk to Mrs. +ora Morell o )ermany Talk to "ro essor Dr. Stella (ramrisch, M.-., "h.D !nterviews with Mr. .illion Henri #an 'andor Stok o Bavaria

"ro essor -lbert &. Suthers !nterviews The -uthor -nswers /uestions o "ro essor Suthers o 0hio 1niversity

Talk to Dr. Magnus Hirsch o Berlin

18 September 1931 /2 What are the main features of your teachings? -2 We are agents who require help from outside to sustain our existence. he help that is coming to us at present is inadequate. !nadequacy is the normal condition of the present atmosphere. "n examination of our rationalistic principle shows that we require more help than our friends offer. We ha#e fi#e senses to pic$ up the $nowledge of the ruth. We desire that we should be endowed with more $nowledge. %ur thirst is not quenched by the ordinary $nowledge deducible from sense&perception a#ailable from the empiric professors. his impulse leads us to enquire as to how we can ha#e more $nowledge than can be had here. We are also found to belie#e that there is an agency who is not furnishing the requisite $nowledge because we are pro#ing ineligible for admission to the plane of adequate $nowledge. his is the source of the theistic conception regarding necessity in our existence to see the nature of apparent truths. 'ence also the conception of the necessity of the coming of the special agent of the absolute $nowledge( as our thirst is ne#er to be quenched by the supply of the agents of empiric $nowledge who alone are ordinarily a#ailable here. We should see$ for the )ountain&head of all $nowledge. !f we do not do so we find oursel#es poorly supplied. %ur capacity for retention of $nowledge also lea#es us when we choose to be con#ersant with local( temporary( apparent truths. he symbolical decepti#e *nowledge is presented when we neglect to see$ the connecting thread of all $nowledge. " time comes when our physical equipment parts with all its seeming possessions. he heistic conception refers to a )ountain&head where *nowledge is )ull and +#er&existing and can impart incessant ,liss. We are pleasure&see$ers through the senses. he empiric #iew does not offer the facility to supply us with incessant ,liss. here must be a heistic #iew. We ha#e to scrutini-e the position of absolute $nowledge( +xistence and ,liss required by us. We must see$ for the place where the "bsolute $nowledge( existence and ,liss is to be had. !n .athematics we get a glimpse of the fourth dimension. We are practically restricted to the third dimension by our senses except for a #ery ha-y idea of direction only. /nless the fountain&head could be traced we cannot cease from see$ing( or from being debarred and led astray from( *nowledge that supplies an enduring basis for true existence. We are thus compelled by the #ery direction of all our acti#ities to see$ after things which should be called "bsolute. %r( to sum up( as we pass our days in the non&"bsolute region we should ha#e the impulse to ha#e access to the transcendental region. !f we are not to ha#e full $nowledge( /n&ending 0ife( /n&interrupted ,liss( this life would be pessimistic existence. We shall then submit to be born( grow and pass away without tac$ling the inadequacies of the phenomena. We should trace the )ountain&'ead( the 1eal 2ause from Whom all these ha#e emanated( not being content with the agnosticism that pre#ails more or less at present. We should see$ for more $nowledge than we get from our senses. We hope that some clue of the transcendental world should be recei#ed by us through a particular process un$nown to men with sensuous habits who are busy with phenomena only( concocting many ideas about the future life. Some subscribe to metempsychosis( some to

this life only( for completing all preparations for peace at the long end. hese #arying opinions do not satisfy for the reason that they are secular. he tentati#e solutions offered by speculati#e philosophy are stained by this radical defect. hey gi#e particular #iews that do not satisfy( being based upon mundane condition in#estigated through the senses. he "bsolute possessed of all *nowledge( +xistence( ,liss( can gi#e all that we are in need of. We are not in a position to ad#ance one step beyond these three dimensions. We are restricted to the partial #iew. We cannot get the whole impression of a globular sphere at a glance. Some turning or transformation of the angle of #ision is required for the purpose of getting the full #iew. We get the #iew of only a quarter of the all&round. We see 183 degrees at a time. !f we want to see at our bac$s we ha#e to turn our head to that direction. hen half the sphere is exposed. "t a glance we see only a quarter of the sphere of existence. So we are lac$ing in simultaneous grasp of the whole idea. We should not therefore turn agnostics etc. When we fail to ha#e the full #iew fully at one time we should $now that our determination of self concerns but an infinitesimal part of the fountain&head from Whom many things ha#e emanated. We should on the contrary( trace 'im from where de#iation is not possible. he challenging part is to ha#e no lien to de#iate from the )ountain&'ead. "ny de#iation is only part and parcel of phenomena( not the whole thing. he immanent and transcendent are ignored. We engage oursel#es in one thing with our whole attention( but the exposition of the thing gi#es a partial idea. !f the attributes are eliminated the original thing is to be sought in which many things are incorporated. !ncorporation itself gi#es #ery little of the whole integer. %ur senses fail to get at the whole thing at one time. %ur brain cannot accommodate )ullness( +#er&existence without beginning or ending of time. So the position of the "bsolute should be traced in the person of the "bsolute. he "bsolute was in the beginning( is existing in e#ery present phenomenon that will disturb the process of transformation and will destroy the phenomenal position. "ll $nowledge will be distincti#e and will destroy and put a stop to these things. ,ut that thing should be traced out. We should acquire the conception of the thing through the senses at present. Sound gi#es impressions of ob4ects at a distance( li$e abstracted ideas from the concrete. "bstract ideas li$e charity etc.( in a subtle form tend to capti#ate the brain in fa#our of perception and conception of things through the senses. Sound con#eying impressions of phenomena requires corroboration from the four other senses and the mind as well. We re4ect sounds whose #alidity is required to be testified to by the other senses. he transcendental Sound has got a distincti#e character. he sound from the fourth dimension recei#ed by the ear has got a special potency to clear out all restricted ideas and to include e#erything of phenomena. he sounds we hear are meant to be restricted to the third dimension( to be transcended by the fourth and higher dimensions. he transcendental Sound clears out all impediments that bloc$ the path of the Sound. he idea of immanence cannot be secured unless we brea$ down the molecules. /nless we brea$ them we cannot go to the other side( transcend time and space. hat Sound will gi#e a clear signal( a free path( by which we can ma$e some progress towards the "bsolute. hat Sound should be recei#ed through instruction. We should undo what we ha#e recei#ed hitherto. here will be no loss. he distincti#e feature of that Sound is that it should incorporate all reciprocal ob4ects along with the Sound. hat Sound should not be neglected because of its distincti#e quality as coming from the ranscendent and so includes all and at the same time comes with all potencies to clear out all sorts of un&aesthetic and wrong impressions recei#ed from our aptitude to en4oy the world which should not hamper our progress towards the )ull and +ternal. We are only showing our natural aptitude and should not be denied. We should lend our ear to recei#e the transcendental Sound. We should stop all our senses for the time being and recei#e the things and not merely their attributions. he transcendental Sounds are gi#en us by the )ountain&'ead Who can ta$e the initiati#e. 'e is not 5

!t 5. 'e is to be deemed as .ale&.oiety of the things( of the subser#ient phenomena. he transcendental Sound should not lac$ any part of the !nteger. he transcendental Sound is equipped with "ll&potency. "s the potency of Sound is restricted we find di#erse existences in different things and are not in a position to recei#e things in full. 6artial conceptions also ma$e us forget. We should sha$e off all other ideas and thoughts for the time being. We expect the "bsolute 0anguage flowing into the ear to include all languages. !f we beha#e otherwise( that Sound cannot communicate itself to us. he transcendental Sound has got innumerable potencies. !t has power of delegating power to us to recei#e all of it. When it comes from an un$nown region it should first in4ect such power to our feeble recei#ing instrument as would enable us to welcome it. We must not show a challenging or re4ecting attitude as we are liable to do towards ad#ice offered gratis. We should $now that the transcendental Sound has the necessary potencies that confer on us such desirable gifts as will enable us to neglect the other senses. %ur eyes( nose( etc.( will be regulated by that Sound. his is not hypnotism or mesmerism which gi#es anthropomorphic ideas. hey are altogether beyond the human scope. hey should charm and transform the human. hey should not depend for any help from the senses or empiricism restricted to their poor rationalistic expedition only. Such help cannot be effecti#e and can only hamper us( when transcendental Sounds flow into our ears from an agent who will inspect whether we desire mundane supplies or not. he transcendental Sound will carry all the requisites necessary for recei#ing the Sound. We should patiently wait through the whole of our life. he transcendental Sound may come through human and all other agents( if only we are ardent( if we require his help( if we unconditionally surrender e#erything acquired by the empiric method( if we dismantle the constructions accrued during the empiric period. !f we do not dismantle them there will be no eligibility for recei#ing the transcendental Sound. he transcendental Sound will be coming out of the !nitiati#e )aculty of the /n$nown. Whate#er submits to our senses is 7ature5s product. When we engage our senses we fail to ma$e progress because we ha#e not dismantled all culture( e#en all aesthetic culture of this world. !f we are desirous of catching the transcendental Sound we should be prepared for the time being to suspend all sensuous acti#ities and wait for the transcendental Sound to include all. !f we ignore the 2ause of causes we miss the opportunity to recei#e the transcendental Sound. "s present people are engaging in materialistic acti#ities we wish some sorts of elementary culture to be introduced to ma$e them progress in the line of the full existence. Spiritualists in e#ery part of the world are busy in threshing the sub4ect by deferring wrongly to the mundane reference. rue spiritualists spea$ out all e#en to persons who are incredulous. his incredulity will be slowly remo#ed by the transcendental Sound. !f the spea$er utters anything mundane it will not lead to the transcendental 6osition. !f we are fortunate to recei#e the Sound that is beyond the human scope we should listen to it. 8od&head sends down 'is messengers in symbolised figures to gi#e us( if we are at all really sanguine( ideas of the "bsolute. !t is only then that we would be enabled to ma$e any progress. his fortune is denied to all who ha#e lo#e for transformable things. 6ersons desirous of ha#ing the #iew of the whole at a glance should ha#e their access through the transcendental Sound only and not through the senses. he distincti#e feature of that Sound is that it carries all sorts of information and potencies that would gi#e us facilities to welcome the Sound hose who neglect to attend to that sound would be unmindful of the )ountain&'ead. hey would be engaging in intellectual acti#ities in this material space that cannot accommodate spirit. hey would be apt to carry gross things there to enrich that region. ,ut lanterns are not necessary for seeing the Sun.

he lanterns are useful for seeing things in the dar$. !t will only encumber and obstruct us if we carry the $nowledge and acquisition of this world for progress in that region. We may be #ery simple in our habits( may be #ery poor in our linguistic equipment( but when the transcendental Sound reaches our ear that will clear up all dirts of our ear accumulated by pre#ious recei#ing of the mundane sound. his will be secured in the company of persons who are eager to restrict their whole acti#ity to the transcendental 6rocess. !f we pay some fee to the scoffing atheists( to the professors of empiric wisdom( to the builders of the temporal structures( etc.( these partial donations in exchange will not gi#e us the whole thing. We should not thin$ of bartering at all. he transcendental Sound does not require any earthly media for its communication. We must not neglect the transcendental Sound freely transmitted by the agents of the "bsolute. We find oursel#es interested in many things that are not $nown to us. he doctors do not $now the remedies of many diseases. We require no monetary #alue in exchange for transmitting our message. We li#e a simple life and require little help from others in the way of scientific facilities. "s we ha#e got our ear we can recei#e the transcendental Sound and #ocalise the same to any intelligent person who may hear us. his will not be accessible to persons who ha#e #ery little culture( who are engrossed in sensuous engagements. ,ut we expect the intelligent section to ma$e some preparatory progress towards a region of which we are essentially in need. !n these days of materialism we are no doubt pu--led by these high thoughts. We are trying to do much to enrich the human intellect. ,ut we are startled when we are told to loo$ beyond. his is silly. We want to rouse up the true mentality of the ci#ili-ed world for see$ing true help towards spiritual progress. he secular help cannot appease our inner hunger. he transcendental 'elp can. We intelligent people should recei#e the tranicendental 9sic: Sound. We are now #itally concerned in this as e#ery one is engaged in exploring ways and means for getting rid of our present unbearable inadequacies. We should spare a portion of our time to recei#e those Sounds.

!nterview with "ro essor #ohans

Head o the De$artment o "hiloso$hy St. %aviers College
/2 6lease tell me in brief the doctrine of Shri 2haitanya .ahaprabhu. -2 here is an old Shlo$a which says ;,haga#an *rishna5s <Son of the 2hieftain 7anda of ,ra4a= own place >rinda#ana is the ob4ect of worship according to the example of the cowherd&wi#es of ,ra4a which is glorified in the Srimad ,haga#atam( the stainless 6uranam( and 0o#e of 8od is the highest thing for attainment.; his is the doctrine of Shri 2haitanya .ahaprabhu( for which we ha#e the greatest regard and not for anything else. he fullest de#elopment of the idea about 8odship is in Shri *rishna. 'e re#eals 'imself to 'is de#otees of different competences in three )orms. "ll these three are perfect conceptions( not li$e the partial one of 6aramatma and the incomplete one of ,rahman. hese three perfect conceptions are full( fuller and fullest. hese three are re#ealed in ?wara$a( .athura and >rinda#ana. "t ?wara$a *rishna5s manifestation is full( at .athura it is fuller and in ,ra4a <including >rinda#ana= it is the fullest. We are li#ing in the ,hulo$a( one out of the fourteen worlds comprising the se#en lower worlds and se#en higher ones. %f the latter( this world <,hulo$a= is the first. he ,hu <earth= ,hu#ah <between hea#en and earth= and S#ah <hea#en= are the regions of en4oyment for householders performing #irtuous deeds with desire@ the remaining higher regions( #i-.( .ahah( Aanah( apah and Satya are attainable by non&householders. %f these four( the first is meant for those who li#e and study in the preceptor5s house and intend to become house&holders after paying the preceptor a ceremonial present@ the second is for the celibates who li#e with the preceptor for good and e#er

obser#e the rules of religious austerities@ the third is for the hermits( who after retirement from worldly life li#e in the forest or in seclusion for meditation@ and the fourth for the sanyasis <roaming mendicants=. ,ut the de#otees of 8od( who ha#e not the inordinate desire for worldly en4oyments or for merger in ,rahman( attain to Shri >ai$untha which is inaccessible to others. +#en beyond that >ai$untha( there is ?wara$a@ higher than that is .athura and abo#e that too is 8olo$a&>rinda#ana. hese regions are manifested by the potency of existences lying in 8od5s +soteric 6ersonality. he places that are there in the transcendental 1egion are re#ealed in the mundane region. What is non&existent in that region cannot be found in this one. he manifestation of the non&apparent sports of >rinda#ana is 8olo$a. Aust as the lotus remains in a la$e without connection with water( so does 8olo$a stay in the world without any touch of the earth. hose whose mind is not prone to offer ser#ice <to 8od= cannot feel the transcendentality of the region descended on the mundane plane. "yodhya( ?wara$a( Shri&6urushottam *shetra of Shri Aagannath etc.( are different pro#inces of Shri >ai$untha. he bliss a#ailable in "yodhya is better than that in >ai$untha@ the bliss in ?wara$a is superior to that in "yodhya@ and the bliss of the deni-ens of 8olo$a is the climax of all bliss. he difference in the degree of a particular 1asa or sentimental mellowness is the cause of the difference in the degree of the bliss. +#en the afflictions and distresses that may be there in 8olo$a dance on the crest of all forms of blisses and happinesses@ these are rather nourishers of the highest form of bliss. Shri 2haitanya ?e#a has demonstrated the superiority of researching the ser#ices of the 0ord of >rinda#ana or of 8o$ula. Shri *rishna is 8od 'imself from Whom ha#e emanated all the !ncarnations of >ishnu. hat *rishna manifests 'imself as the 0ord of ?wara$a( or of 8o$ula. Shri 2haitanya ?e#a has said about 0ord *rishna of 8o$ulaB ;!n *rishna are present all the fi#e principal 1asas <forms of sentimental mellowness=. 'e is 'imself the %cean of 1asas.; /2 What is it you call by the name >ai$untha? -2 !t is where there is no $untha or the characteristic feature of measuring e#erything. his >ai$untha has two petals or apartments. !n the one 8od exists as ,haga#an with the highest .a4esty. !n the second apartment abo#e the first one 'e is e#er present with 'is 6ersonality of perfect sweetness( 'e being the %cean of all the sentimental succulence that gi#es the utmost sensation of transcendental pleasure@ here 'e co#ers up that climax of .a4esty with the predominance of 'is graceful sweetness by dint of ine#itable 6otency. >ai$untha is no $ind of limited region li$e the Swarga( of the 'indus( ,ahest of the 6ersians( 'ea#en of the 2hristians( nor is the place( a habitation of the deities who are sub4ect to the measuring limitations. he conception of >ai$untha among the >aisna#as is not li$e that of persons who thin$ that as the result of #irtuous acts they will go to the region of hea#en and again come in contract with wi#es( sons and relati#es connected with their bodies to remain absorbed in en4oyments as in the world. !n >ai$untha( *rishna is the only .aster and all are eternally engaged in ser#ing 'im. "ccording to the >aishna#as( Swarga( ,ahest( etc.( are as false as day&dreams. We are all ser#ants of 8od and 8od is the only recipient of our ser#ice. We are belie#ers in "chintya&,hedabheda#ada i.e.( the doctrine of the inscrutable simultaneity of distinction and non&distinction among 8od and 'is creation( animate and inanimate. We ha#e no desire for obstructing the eternal essential #irtue of chit <animation= in order to annihilate it with a suicidal policy by merging into ,rahman( or( on the other hand( for being absorbed in material en4oyments in this world or in hea#en etc.( along with relations. We are associated counterparts of 8od. he modern thin$ers are apathetic towards listening to >aidic 9sic: commands which ha#e come down to us through the true line of 8urus( but they attach more #alue to the process of empiricism. "nd they are properly rewarded with punishment through that process itself. ,ut we accept "#atara&#ada( or process of ?eduction. 8od and 'is de#otees graciously come down to this world and gi#e us the message of >ai$untha. he >aishna#as are not ele#ationists( following the $arma&$anda( nor followers of 4nana&$anda or sal#ationists. hey are not achid&#adins( nor belie#ers only in achit <i.e.( achit&matra&#adins= nor again chinmatra#adins@ but they are chid&#ilasa&#adins. /2 What are these four >adas? -2 "chid&#ada is materialism of the following nature as when one says( ;! shall be !ndra( the *ing of hea#en; or ;! shall en4oy worldly pleasures; in the #ein of 2har#a$a( the !ndian +picurus( whose philosophy was that pleasure was the highest good or again ;! shall borrow and drin$ and not thin$ of discharging the debt@ ! shall ha#e con#enient arrangements for leading a comfortable life in this world@ and to be a greater en4oyer( ! shall acquire and preser#e health@ ! shall ma$e a proper use of the canine teeth by eating fish and meat and #igorously manage

the function of youth; and so on. 5"chin&matra&#ada is the name of the attempt to annihilate the sentient existence( on the ground that "chid&#ada is only temporal and the sentient existence is the una#oidable root of all troubles and miseries. "ccording to them the extinction of the sentient existence is the most laudable and #aluable thing( inasmuch as existence is the root of all e#ils. Sa$yasimha( *apila( etc.( were the propounders of this doctrine. 2hinmatra&#ada is the name of the attempt to merge in ,rahman and thus destroy the anuchit property of 4i#as. Shan$aracharya and( before him( ?attratreya( were the propounders of this doctrine. he different anuchetanamsas <4i#as= of the +ntire 2hit <8od= remaining e#er attracted by the >ibhu&2hetana <8od= show lo#e towards 'imB this is $nown as chit&#ilasa&#aichitrya. 'ere the atma <soul= is e#er entirely engaged in the sporti#e acti#ities with the 8od. !n it there are no sins and no spiritual offences more heinous than sins( li$e the co#ered state of the soul as in "chid&#ada( the attempt to annihilate atma and 6aramatma as in "chinmatra&#ada( or spiritual suicide as in 2hinmatra&#ada. here are here the full unfolding( the full beauty and the full coalescence of 6aramatma and atma. /2 Cou ha#e 4ust expounded #ery high philosophical truths which ! shall ta$e a long time to digest. -2 %nly time will not do. hese truths should be listened to again and again #erbally from the mouths of true "charyas. Some time ago .r. 2hapman <of the !mperial 0ibrary= listened for two or three hours to the philosophy of Shri 2haitanya ?e#a and at the end he admitted that e#en for a scholar li$e him( the philosophy was extremely difficult to enter into. So it cannot be understood without repeated hearings and with de#out submission.

Talk to Herr Baron H.&. 'on (oeth and Herr &.). Schul*e
[Herr Schulze was a great German scholar and a famous writer, who became a disciple of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati, living in India as a mendicant. We require the fullness of things. he plenary transcendence is to be approached. he difficult problem to be sol#ed is how we can do so. )irst of all we find that the mind is meant for dealing with the external finite things of this world. %ur senses are gratified by a#ailable ob4ects but these ob4ects are found to be inadequate for our purpose. When we are in search of more than is a#ailable here( or when we require a continuity of those #ery things( we are simply denied this full satisfaction. We cannot ha#e our desirable ob4ects in full( so we try to de#ise some means that continuity may be preser#ed. 'ere we find three different trends( ! mean qualities. %ne quality tends to operate for creati#e purposes( the next for sustenance and the third for destruction. hus we ha#e three situations. When there is nothing( something comes up for our sensuous inspection( something which was not in existence before or whose existence we could not trace before( 4ust li$e an entry on the stage. !t exists for some time. "nd then it ta$es its exit from the stage. hese are the three stages we mar$ in this world( whereas in the "bsolute( these are not the current conditions( though they ha#e got their existence in order to foster the ecstasy of the "bsolute. We ha#e to eliminate all sorts of undesirable impediments. We ha#e to get rid of the alloyed portions( the defecti#e portions( which we ha#e incorporated with us. "ll sorts of imperfections should be a#oided. !n the region of the "bsolute we $now there are three different energies wor$ing( one of which is 'is ecstatic energy by which bliss is conferred on us( and 'e is found to be inebriated with the ecstatic explorations. he #ery "bsolute indulges 'imself in the ecstatic mood and 'e is delighted@ and when we find that 'e is delighted( we( being more or less part and parcel of the transaction( get a share as well( we being not the mind but the soul proper. When 'e is delighted( we necessarily get the ad#antage of that delightful temper of the "bsolute. When 'e is surcharged with all beatific phases( we are also endowed with a part as per our own eligibility@ as per our affinity for ser#ing 'im( we en4oy a part. 'ere where we are passing through a non&absolute region( our en4oyment is nothing but depri#ing 'im of 'is en4oyment. We should ta$e proper care not to carry our defecti#e ideas there. he passionate desires of this mundane world should not be carried to the "bsolute region. he second is the true energy( the energy of diffusing true $nowledge@ and the third is existence.

!n the mundane region( we find three thingsB existence( sustenance and destruction. ?estruction is a thing which is quite undesirable here. ,ut in the "bsolute region( we find the #ery dissociation or separation has got a factor in inebriating us. 'ere when we are depri#ed of something( we are rather helpless@ there we get more opportunities of ser#ing 'im in case of separation. he procedure of approaching 'im is to realise the condition of separation. 'ere we do not find 'im. he "bsolute cannot be had here though we may ha#e ample inclination for ha#ing 'im. he #ery formation of our equipments( the mind and the senses( is quite inadequate to ha#e an approach to the transcendence( neither can we expect 'im to be confined here as one of the ob4ects of phenomena. We need not thin$ that 'e comes under our sensuous 4urisdiction. !f 'e can come as an ob4ect( we should accuse 'im of 'is finiteness. 'e is not to be dealt with as one of the material ob4ects which can be reciprocated by our senses. 'e $eeps 'imself quite out of our #ision and out of the touch of our senses. /nless we ha#e de#otional aptitude( we cannot in#o$e 'im here. 'e does not condescend to come to this region and become an ob4ect of the acti#ities of our senses. So we should find out a means to approach 'im and this is $nown as Sadhan&,ha$ti( i.e.( the procedure to be adopted in our case. he Supreme 0ord has not gi#en us any pri#ilege of exposing 'imself to our senses. 6henomenal ob4ects are presented to us( for duping us( for deluding us. So we ha#e to be in touch with 'im( but 'e has denied us this pri#ilege. his is the case of separation. When 'e( the 0o#er( the 2entre of all lo#e( has denied the belo#ed 'is presence( our inclinations and acti#ities should double( or treble to ha#e 'is association. So this sort of separation is an essential point( is indeed the cardinal point( that will help us to ha#e the inclinations of approaching 'im. "ll our attempts should tend towards association with 'im( because the association is denied for the purpose of studying our hearts. 'e has gi#en us this facility to ha#e an easy trac$ to reach 'im. he #ery condition of separation is a #ery good thing for 'is ser#itor as he can culture his affinity or inclination for the "bsolute more than when he is allowed to appear before 'im. 'e has intentionally depri#ed us of 'is presence. 'e was found to be for a lo#ing temper( but the 0o#er has deserted us( and we are to follow 'im. When we are disappointed in not ha#ing 'is presence( we should actually than$ our stars that our 0o#er has gained much by dissociating 'imself from us. ! mean the "utocrat has got the right of ma$ing 'imself quite happy by deserting us( and we are to submit to 'is pleasure and wish( we are to submit to 'is whims. We must abide by 'is decision. hat ! consider to be ser#ice. hat is( ! need not satisfy my senses by approaching 'im. ,ut when he has managed to shut 'imself from my senses( ! $now 'e wants that ! should acquire more affinity for 'im( and 'e has gi#en me that opportunity. !f 'e came within our perception( we would simply gratify our senses( which would be a detriment to our cause and would pro#e an obstacle to our ser#ice. "n illustration is quotedB %ne infinitestimal absolute was fanning the "bsolute !nfinity. he moment he thought that the 0ord was delighted by his ser#ices( that the .aster had accepted his ser#ices( he became o#erpowered and could fan no more. hus he was found to be negligent in offering his ser#ices. he fanner should ha#e $nown that he ought not to satisfy his senses by stopping his ser#ices by considering that the .aster had accepted his ser#ices. 'e should not ha#e become inebriated( because it pro#ed rather a bar to his offering further ser#ice. !nstead of being carried away by our emotional sentiments( we should always be alert in offering our ser#ice( and ser#ice is best offered by chanting the 7ame. he Supreme 0ord is $eeping 'imself at a distance and we are to see$ 'im assiduously@ this is the proper way of chanting the 7ame. he 7ame of the "bsolute should be chanted continually so that we may be mindful and not diffident to offer our ser#ices. "s soon as we show our diffidence to ser#e 'im( and stop chanting 'is 7ame( we are necessarily led to lord it o#er the worldly phenomena( and we get a quite different occupation. he occupation or the sole function of the soul is nothing but to associate himself with the Supreme 0ord. "s soon as we are negligent of our ser#ices( we miss the opportunity of associating with 'im. We are 'is eternal ser#itors <,ha$tas= and as such we ha#e no other occupation but to ser#e 'im. !f we neglect this in4unctions( 9sic: we will ha#e to become engaged with temporal things@ but these engagements will not be continued for a long time. here will be a cessation of such engagements( and we miss what is eternal. he transcendental 7ame is quite different from the ordinary sounds. he ordinary sounds carry the impression of things of this world for our purpose. "ll things of this phenomena are meant to ser#e us@ but we are to ser#e 'im. Ser#ice is to be rendered to the "bsolute( and we need not han$er after recei#ing ser#ice from non&absolutes. "nything done for the purpose of our own self( is not ser#ice. Whate#er is offered to the "bsolute( is $nown as ser#ice or ,ha$ti. When the ser#ice is done property 9sic:( when it is not dominated by some regulation( the ser#ice

is pure. "ll gnostic transactions or associations with the mundane things are quite opposed to ser#ice because they are meant for our purpose and not for the purpose of the "bsolute. When we $now we are absolute infinitesimals( our #ision is fully restricted to the "bsolute !nfinity and not to any non&absolute thing. ?e#otion or ,ha$ti is the policy of approaching 'im. /nconditional surrender should be performed at all cost. When we surrender( we will ha#e an opportunity of depending on 'im fully( otherwise we will be thin$ing of other things whether the "bsolute is at all prepared to rescue us from this troublous region or not. he unconditional surrendering will gi#e us the assurance that we will be rescued from the worldly affinity. !f we chant the 7ame continuously( we will be able to get rid of our inclination of accepting worldly things( we will be simply relie#ed from the in#asion of phenomenal finite ob4ects. So chanting should be the process. We need not trouble oursel#es in the beginning to enter into the details of the "bsolute@ the #ery chanting of 'is 7ame will ta$e us to 'im. his world is a place of trial. We are to educate oursel#es in the transcendental Science. We should not fail to do so now that we ha#e got a human frame. We must a#ail our present opportunity( lea#ing aside e#erything else for our next life. his life should be engaged solely in the pursuit of the "bsolute and that sort of pursuit will be effected if we adopt the process of de#otion. We ha#e #ery little to do with the worldly people@ but we ha#e e#erything to do with those who are engaged in the ser#ice of the Supreme 0ord. "ssociation with people who are busy with their measuring temperament( will not be congenial for our purpose. We should not culture our en4oying temperament as most people are inclined to do. !f we ha#e at all to meet an undesirable person( we should always ma$e it a point to proselytise him through education about the ranscendental. he only aim of our life should be to ma$e progress towards the #eiled region. 6eople may accuse us that we are tal$ing in a #ein of mysticism which cannot be examined by the senses. ,ut we do not tal$ of mysticism( we tal$ of certainties. "s see$ers of positi#e $nowledge( we should try to peep into the #eiled region. 6eople are busy in examining things by their seeming aspects. he seeming positions are not to be confused with the actual positions( as a wrapper should not be considered to be the letter. We should penetrate into things. he outer case( the bahiranga maya&sha$ti( has produced these things to be measured by our senses. his sort of measuring is not at all congenial to our purpose. We should ha#e a peep into the "bsolute. We should not ta$e our physical and astral bodies to be our real self. "t present we $now nothing due to ignorance( and this ignorance( is to be dispelled. We cannot deny the fact that we will ha#e to die and get rid of this fleshy tabernacle. We cannot retain it. So the real owner of the body should be aimed at first. his is swarupa4nana. We should not be identified with our bodies. When we are found to be eligible to see 'im( we will be attracted by 'is sublime beautiful face. 'is beauty should not be en4oyed by us( but our beautiful transcendental frame should be shown to 'im for 'is pleasure. "s soon as we show 'im our spiritual beauty( 'e will disclose 'imself to us.

Talk to Mrs. +ora Morell o )ermany

September 1( 193D We should ha#e firm faith in the ?i#inity. We are absolute infinitesimals( and it is only proper we should associate oursel#es with the "bsolute. !f we show our diffidence to do so( we are li$ely to be entangled with the ephemeral matters of this world. %ur friends are with us for a short while only. hey will lea#e us at any time when they are called away from this world. Whate#er we do should tend towards association with the ?i#inity. We should not underta$e any wor$ for our temporary purposes. We are 'is dependents. !nfinitesimals as we are( we should ha#e our final place in 'im. We should carry out all our acti#ities for 'is purpose only. We should not thin$ that we ha#e any other thing to do. /nli$e the ordinary people( we should ha#e only one method of directing e#erything to 'im for 'is ser#ice. he external gross body is meant for a hundred years and no more. %ur mental speculations are bound to be going on in our present human form. ,ut we are obliged to lea#e this mortal coil and to cease our transactions with the external world at some time howe#er ardent we may be about ha#ing associations with the manifesti#e nature of things. !f we wish to associate oursel#es with the "bsolute( all non&absolute propaganda for our temporary purposes should be abandoned as far as possible( otherwise we will be led to become materialists only. hat non&absolute propaganda will instigate us to entangle oursel#es with worldly thoughts and ideas. We

will be thin$ing of physical de#elopments instead of associating oursel#es with the "bsolute. We are all absolutes though infinitesimally small. ,ecause we ha#e shown diffidence we ha#e pro#ed our indolence to associate with 'im@ so( li$e shooting stars( we ha#e been simply thrown off from 'im. We ha#e rebelled against that +ntity. 7ow to go bac$ to 'im( it is essential that all our associations and mo#ements should tend to 'is ser#ice. )irst of all 'e should be designated. What is 'e? What form does 'e ha#e? "nd how are we to go bac$ to him? When we come to $now that 'e $eeps 'imself aloof from e#erything in this phenomenal world( we feel the necessity of associating with 'im. "nd this association can be had if we can eliminate the external impediments which are li$e screens( between the "bsolute !nfinity and the absolute infinitesimals. %ur mental speculations are meant for associating with the phenomenal ob4ects. ,ut some philosophers thought it possible to turn our mental speculations to 'im in 'is abstract form( instead of 'is manifesti#e nature. ,ut here we ha#e got 'is manifesti#e nature for the purpose of associating oursel#es with 'im. We cannot ha#e this association by any sort of pri#ations. he phenomenal ob4ects are undesirable things. "lthough they ha#e some effect on us( they are all transient and will not hold good for us till the end of time. We do not thin$( li$e materialists thin$ that e#erything will stop when we die & that all our troubles will end at death. his miserable idea should be thrown off. We should engage all our acti#ities to associate oursel#es with the "bsolute( as we are oursel#es associate infinitesimals. We are not the body( nor the mind( nor the external atmosphere. We require dissociation from these. hese undesirable situations should be eliminated at all costs( otherwise we will be engrossing oursel#es entirely in the ordinary purposes of this world. 0ower animals are used as food by many people. !n ancient times( when cannibalism was pre#alent in the world( people used to eat human flesh. hey thought that the human body was meant for their consumption. 0ater on when ci#ilisation made progress( people ga#e up cannibalism( but went on ta$ing flesh of lower animals. !n !ndia persons belonging to the higher castes do not ta$e animal food. he de#elopment of religious thoughts ha#e stopped the practice of cruelty to animals in many ways. Science has now pro#ed that #egetables too ha#e life and can feel pain and pleasure. ,ut it is not mean that we should commit suicide by abstaining from ta$ing any food. his problem is sol#ed when food is meant for the purpose of the "bsolute. +#erything has come out of 'im and e#erything will go bac$ to 'im and e#erything is meant for 'is ser#ice. "ll animate and inanimate ob4ects ha#e come out of him and are meant for 'is ser#ice only. !f we purloin these things( it would be decei#ing the "bsolute. We are absolute infinitesimals and are deluded by the ordinary manifesti#e character of the phenomena. We ha#e to get rid of this delusion. We should ha#e a peep into the ruth( and that ruth must be reached. !f we are sincere( 'e will expose 'imself to our #ision. Whate#er we do( we should do it for 'im( for 'is eternal purpose( instead of indulging oursel#es in transitory transactions. %ur only function is not to carry on our wor$ for our own purpose. We should not be the recipients of the fruits of the enterprises we ha#e. !t is better for us that whate#er we do should be done in 'is fa#our and for 'is ser#ice. We are ser#itors. !f we $eep dogs( we would be ser#ants for dogs@ if we $eep horses we would be ser#ants of horses( and if we become altruists( we would be ser#ants of human beings only. ,ut the "bsolute should be ser#ed at all costs. We should ma$e it a point that all our acti#ities should tend to 'is ser#ice. "ll animate and inanimate beings ha#e emanated from 'im. We should ser#e the "bsolute and not engage oursel#es in the non&absolute. .ost people are at a loss to understand what they should do and what they are meant for. hey only see the superficial sides of things. he external sides of things are quite deluding. "s intelligent men( we should be #ery careful. We should penetrate into e#erything properly. %ur #iew should not be obstructed by the morphological representation of things( nor by the ontological side of things. he methodical arrangement of the phenomena should not be restricted to our ordinary purpose of li#ing only. ,ut since our aim is a peaceful life( we do not wish to be troubled by the undesirable elements of the world. Sometimes we find a little peace by $eeping rules and regulations and obser#ing ci#ic principles. ,ut we are again put into trouble by some misunderstanding or other of the people from outside. here is some agency wor$ing behind( which is not exposed to our present senses.

%ur sensuous ner#es are quite ineligible for the purpose of associating with the ruth. he semblance of de#otion and truth which people may put on often decei#es us. he external features( the morphological and ontological phases of things( are sometimes found to be detrimental to our cause when our ambition is to come into touch with the "bsolute. We ha#e the facility of possessing the experience of the last ten thousand years. We can 4udge and discern the best method for our adoption( instead of indulging oursel#es in the way the ordinary people are transacting their business round about us. %ur senses respond readily to the ob4ects of the phenomena. Supersensuous ob4ects are simply neglected. he eternal representations( the eternal manifestations and the eternal aspects are fully neglected. We aspire to ha#e the fullest ad#antage of coming in touch with all desirable things. !n our present life( we find that we are troubled by many distressful agents. We find that all these are treacherous and only lead us to the satisfaction of our senses only. his non&absolute propaganda should cease. Whate#er else we may do( we should ma$e it a point that we should ha#e neither diffidence nor indolence in offering our ser#ices to the "bsolute. he word ;"bsolute; is explained in different ways. We ha#e experience of the non&absolutes and undesirable ob4ects of the phenomena. %ur mind is found to be of a non&absolute nature. he mind discerns things for the purpose of the senses only. he "bsolute is delineated as %ne who has reser#ed the right of not being exposed to human senses. !f the "bsolute was an ob4ect of the phenomena( we would be lording it o#er 'im. ,ut that is not the correct situation. We should dedicate oursel#es as 'is ser#itors. We should not thin$ that we are en4oyers and 'e is the predominated ob4ect of our en4oyment. 'e is ne#er so. We are obliged to pass through undesirable situations. We want to get rid of all these things. %ur inner impulse should be to ha#e access to that region where all ob4ects will offer us special opportunity of ha#ing association with the "bsolute. %ur purpose should be to associate with the )ullness( with the +ternity( with the 6urity( with the ,est of desirables( and not to mix with the temporary things of delusi#e nature. We should not ha#e a crippled idea of 8od&head. We should wait for the transcendental message to come to us in full. We would ha#e then an opportunity of associating with 'im. We should set apart some time to ma$e progress towards the in#estigation of the ranscendence. We are #ery small. Some o#erwhelming influence comes upon us and we are troubled. So we should ha#e recourse to the "bsolute !nfinity. We should not be acting li$e shooting stars in flying away from 'im( but we should go bac$ to our original place. here the manifesti#e nature is eternally present( whereas here the phenomenal ob4ects are meant for a few days only. So we should ha#e this eternal benefit as our ob4ecti#e. We can ignore all these influences of nature( all influences of scientific disco#eries( if we ha#e the determination to associate oursel#es only with the Whole +ntity. here are many things concealed and hidden and not re#ealed to us( and these are to be recei#ed through our aural reception. %ur auditory ner#es should be trained to be susceptible to sound wa#es from the transcendental messenger so that we can ma$e progress towards the ranscendence.

Talk to "ro . Dr. Stella (ramrisch, M.-., "h.D

?ecember 9( 1931 he 7ame of the 6ersonality of 8od&head is >ishnu. he impersonal face is designated ,rahman in Sans$rit to denote 5magnanimous5( 5large5( 5big5( etc.( representing the macroscosmic #iew. he 6ersonality which is apart from 'is creation is >ishnu. >ishnu has three +nergies. %ne of them is meant for manifestation of 'is eternal "bode( another 6otency is for creating all human souls who are emanations from 'is atastha&sha$ti found between the temporal and eternal worlds. ,y this potency 'e creates human souls. he human soul has two different

predilections. !f he desires to ser#e 8od&head he is allowed into the +ternal 1egion. !f he desires to lord it o#er this world he comes down for en4oying in different capacities the products of the ?eluding 6otency. !n this world e#erything is changing and transforming( e#erything is sub4ect to birth( growth and death. !n the present form of existence we cannot expect to be otherwise than being sub4ect to birth( growth and death. he position is always changing. When we do not want to be sub4ect to these we feel the necessity of see$ing a way to get bac$ to the original position. his position( which is li$e the geometrical line( is designated atastha&sha$ti( the fountain&head of all human souls. atastha&sha$ti is located between the two potencies of >ishnu one of which maintains this transforming world and the other is the source of the manifestation of the eternal world that does not change li$e this world. hese potencies belong to the 6ersonality of 8od&head >ishnu. 1udra( 8od of destruction and ,rahma( 8od of generation are two wings of the 6ersonality of >ishnu. Some people thin$ that the destructi#e aspect of the ?i#ine 6ersonality should be final( that the goal should be cessation of all acti#ity. hey prefer the worship of the destructi#e face i.e. 1udra or Shi#a. ,ut the destructi#e function is only a specific department of the ?i#ine "cti#ities. +xistence is different from destruction. he +ternal funcion 9sic: of cherishing and fostering all sorts of manifestations( is strictly confined to >ishnu Who is the centre of all theism. !n the 8ita the 6ersonality of 8od&head is maintained e#erywhere. he 8ita closes with the proposition that we should embrace the )eet of >ishnu lea#ing aside all aborti#e speculations. !f a man does note ser#e >ishnu he engages himself in some other acti#ities e.g.( $eeping dogs( horses etc.( in order to ser#e them. "ll sorts of ser#ice are to be rendered to the "bsolute. "ny proposition to lord it o#er others means that we desire to be raised to the position of 8od&head Who alone is to be ser#ed by them. "ll of us are to render ser#ice to 'im only. When there is any di#ision or argument on this point( when we cease ser#ing 'im( we want to ma$e things subser#ient or ser#iceable to us. !f we want to en4oy( if we want that 8od&head should not en4oy( we don5t feel that any ser#ice is necessary for 'im. his leads to a serious conflict. !f ! require that some one should ser#e me and that some one requires that ! should ser#e him the ser#ice due to the 'ead is disturbed by such selfish deflection. his produces conflict of loyalties. !t becomes detrimental to 'armony. /nless all acti#ities are harmonised e#ery one will be troubled. We should not be meddling with earthly things that are always shifting and changing. Whene#er we get a thing for supplying a want it should be to ser#e 8od&head. %therwise we require ser#ice from others and thereby want to en4oy this world. his would debar us from the "bsolute. !f we pic$ up shifting things we shall be dragged to some pu--ling region. We would arri#e at no decision. !t is necessary that all our acti#ities should be directed to the "bsolute *nowledge( identical with 8od&head. !f we agree to ser#e( we would find what the position of the "bsolute should be. !n the %ld estament the pronoun 5!t5 stands for the "bsolute( or the 7euter face. he )ountain&'ead is depri#ed of animation by the proposition that all prerogati#e( e#erything predominating( should cease in the "bsolute. When we disagree from the abo#e we thin$ 'e should ha#e some initiati#e. 5!t5 should be 5'e.5 he 8ita refers to a 5'e&8od.5 he .oiety of the hing is thus established. he predominating "spect is recognised. he predominated "spect is ignored. he .asculine should ha#e the reciprocal )eminine "spect. %therwise one .oiety is ignored. he wo .oieties form the 2omplete Whole. .atter which has no initiati#e is eliminated. he two hal#es of the Whole #i-.( the 6redominating the predominated "spects( should be represented. he ?istincti#e .onism of Shri 1amanu4a admits three fundamental entities( #i-.( spirit( matter and their 0ord( && 2hit( a&chit and !swara.

"ll animate things are #ested with the spiritual form. he inanimate cannot exercise any acti#ity( cannot ta$e the initiati#e. he .asculine and )eminine both show initiati#e faculties. !nanimate form should not be traced as the )ountain&'ead. he choice up to this has lain between 5!t&8od5 and 5'e&8od5. here is also a third alternati#e #i-.( a 5She&8od5. We ha#e decided that 5'e&8od5 is the sub4ect to be ascertained and not 5!t&8od5. !t&8od is equi#alent to "gnosticism( Scepticism( "theism( etc. !f any methodic or cosmic principle is to be admitted we should require that 5!t&8od5 cannot produce 'e&8od. ,ecause 'e&8od can ta$e initiati#e. !t&8od cannot. he pair( 5'e5 and 5She5 is /nion and is the Second )orm. ,efore this animation is wholly or partially eliminated from 8od. !n the 8ita the male )orm is represented as the 8od. he )eminine )orm of 8od&head should supply the full !ntegral >alue by satisfying the requirements of the reciprocal situation in animation. Sita&1ama standard of heism( in which the +thical side is fully manifested( may be ta$en as the fa#ourite instance of the third or ;6air& 8od5 form. ,ut what appears at first sight to be the special merit of the worship of Sita&1ama( #i-.( its ethical #alue safeguarded by one 2onsort and one 'usband( also restricts the 6redominating "spect of the "bsolute to that #alue( on the ground that in this world it would create great dissension if the husband should ha#e many wi#es. he )eminine share is ignored by this mundane reference. he fourth stage of hesim 9sic: is supplied by the worship of *rishna as *ing of ?wara$a. *rishna is %ne .aster ser#ed by hundreds and thousands of souls who follow 'im. 'undred and thousands of wi#es ser#e *rishna by the relation of consort&hood. We ha#e e#ery right to 4oin the ser#ice of 8od&head in that capacity. 'uman souls are many( but the %#er&Soul is %ne. 1amanu4a says that plurality of wi#es should be allowed to ser#e 8od&head( while others who hold that ?i#ine ser#ice should be restricted to 1ishis li#ing in the ?anda$a forest( require that we should ha#e 1ama as our consort. Sita would refuse us this fa#our. heism is restricted by reference to this world. he equilibrium that is sought( is not maintained. We males ha#e got to pass through one sort of ideas and females through another. ,ut our experience is a per#erted reflection. We are many. We must not thin$ that our 0ord should be many. 6olytheistic thought must be a#oided. he 2hristian heology offers a .ale&8od( Who is )ather and 2reator of e#erything. ,ut .ale&8od without the feminine .oiety cannot produce any boy here. hat sort of idea of .ale&8od would not gi#e us fullness of de#otion. 0a$shmi&7arayana is better than .ale&8od. 1ama&sita is also better. !n ?wara$esha <*ing of ?wara$a= we find that 'e is 0ord of many subser#ients. .any ser#itors are allowed access to 'im as their 'usband. !n this world there are found fi#e different reciprocal relationships. !f the re#erential #iew of worship is allowed we are depri#ed of confidential ser#ices. !f we ser#e 1ama only we can do so in two capacities( either as 'is menial ser#ant or as 'is subser#ient friend. We cannot suppose that we are better friends of 1ama than 'imself. We can also be neutral towards 'im. !n Son&hood of 8od( we understand the ,irth and 2hildhood of 8od&head. We are care&ta$ers of our son. We as parents can ser#e 'im as a ,oy. his is the form of ,ala&8opala <2ow&,oy= worship. !n the fourth stage of heism parental lo#e may not be directed to the mundane boy@ but the ranscegdental 9sic: ,oy is placed in that position. he external or internal body is not the soul. he ownership of both is attributed to the soul. hese bodies are the outward apparel. We require a loftier foliage( a truer expansion than is possible for them in order to approach 8od& head. !n other words we need not be restricted to the atheistic face. he qualitati#e <Saguna= and non&qualitati#e <7irguna= ali$e restrict us to a particular form. his should not be. here are four different restricted groups #i-.( the ideas of thoughtless atheists and those corresponding respecti#ely to the qualitati#e( the non&qualitati#e and neuter faces of the "bsolute by mundane reference. hese

are the non& heistic groups. !n the heistic group there are <1= .ale&8od( <E= >ague 6air&8od <0a$shmi& 7arayana=( <3= ?efinite 6air&8od #i-.( 1ama&Sita. hese also are restricted by reference to the ethical principle( which has pro#ed efficacious here. We should not carry this mundane reference thither to ma$e the realm of the "bsolute also miserable. hat realm is a permanent region. !f we thin$ it is not permanent we would be pessimists and cynics always afraid of troubles from outside. We should ha#e a heistic turn of mind. 8od&head need not be dissociated from the principles of 1eal +xistence( *nowledge and ,liss <Sat( 2hit( "nanda=. We are ne#er 8od. 6antheists thin$ that after liberation we are 8od and identical with that hing( that 8od should ha#e no reference to obser#er( obser#ation and obser#ed as this is our bitter experience here. "s these troublous positions are found to be against our peace here( we are deluded to accept the position of atheists to merge the distinctions in a union where there is no specification. !n the actual liberated condition we need not thin$ that we should merge in the "bsolute and that there should be no differentiation between 8od&head and our humble sel#es. Such thin$ing( which belongs to the conditioned state( is pure hallucination. 8od&head should ha#e a position which should not be confused with that of hundreds and thousands of souls here. 'e should be possessed of qualities that are not to be compared to ours and we should find a permanent position of relationship to 'im. hat our present position is for a time and it is to end on merging with the "bsolute( is /panishadic speculation. !n it mind is confused as soul. %ur soul is now lying in a dormant condition. he soul delegates power to mind to meddle with the affairs of this world. .ind and soul ha#e different location and different attributes. .atter and soul are supposed to be one by 6antheists. heism proper is found in the 8ita. he 1amayana gi#es us the worship of 1ama&sita. he 6ancharatra offers the worship of the +ternal 6air&8od. !n 1ama&Sita our ethical merits are met. he 6redominating aspect in man needs to be restricted but not the 6redominating "spect of 8od&head. he empiricists often show dread of changing things. hey shift their positions when they meet with contrary arguments. hey also learn from their professors( in the same way. his will not lead to the "bsolute. We should find the 6osition of 8od&head in the "bsolute and non&"bsolute. !n the +le#enth chapter of the 8ita( "r4una is shown a figure of 8od&head. he sun and moon are 'is eyes. "ll smaller gods( the whole uni#erse and all others attributions which are not shown to "r4una by his chariot&?ri#er( are displayed to the #iew of "r4una. hese are delegated to ,alade#a( the Second )acsimile of 8od&head in Whom all sorts of powers are to be found. he first )ace is free from all mundane reference. Such reference would minimi-e 'im. hose who are truly subser#ient will approach the rue )ace of 8od&head. ?a--led persons approach the second ?i#ine 6ersonality as ,alade#a. hey cannot touch *rishna and his consort 1adha in the region where there are innumerable pairs. "ll&6otency is delegated with the Second )acsimile( the creator of the different aspects of heism traced by us. ,ut 'e is not the Supreme "uthority. *rishna is Supreme. ,ut 'e has delegated all powers. he position of 8od&head is "ll&round. We ha#e only two eyes. We see only half the hori-on. 0oo$ing up at the s$y we see the -odiac but not the other half #i-.( that containing the meridinal stars. We cannot see this other half unless there is rotation. When a globular sphere is considered we can see only a quarter of the globe as in this mundane world. So far as the sphere is considered only one&fourth is shown to us( but we can calculate from the sight of the quarter. here are the first( second( third and fourth quadrants. !n the 6ancharatra 8od&head is #isible here by mundane acti#ity in the first quadrant only@ >asude#a( San$arsana( 6radyumna and "niruddha forming the "ll&1ound 2ircle. Shan$aracharya repudiated the four 8ods. he 'indu "stronomy has twenty&four di#isions of the arc. here are twenty&four >ai$unthas in each quadrant. he Aainas

ha#e tought that the Ainas are twenty&four. he >aishna#as do not subscribe to that #iew( as they are uncompromising heists. /2 && 'ow to get such super&mundane realisation? -2 && *nowledge of first dimensions is acquired first. "ll mental speculation should cease. "ll forms of ser#ice for 8od&head mean that our mind should first of all be controlled. he mind is busy pic$ing up ideas and thoughts from this world. !f these are carried there it would be anthropomorphic. here should be no such attribution to 8od&head. We ha#e to engage in hundred percent ser#ice. We should $now that the apotheotic ideas cannot be tolerated( and should be ruled out of consideration. We should be always hearing the "bsolute through the transcendental Sound. he sound of our atmosphere describes 7ature5s products. !t informs us about "merica or any corner of the globe. he aptitude should be dismissed in the case of transcendental Sound which is not from this region of three dimensions. Sound from the "bsolute 1ealm <>ai$untha= has a peculiar reference. !t requires no corroboration by the other senses. !n the case of mundane sound nasal acti#ity is required to test its correctness( the tongue and other senses must also help in the process. here are always the four corroborati#e senses that are engaged in testing the #alidity of the mundane sound. ,ut they are quite unser#iceable in the case of the transcendental Sound. he transcendental Sound has got a popular distincti#e reference of its own. !t refers to 7on&di#isible "bsolute *nowledge <"d#aya&Anana=. 7o challenge is to be offered to that Sound. !f these examinations fail to follow that Sound 'e would still act on our system and we should still listen to 'im and as$ questions to satisfy us as to whether anything can be traced of that Sound. he transcendental Sound comes here to designate 8od&head. he transcendental Sound is the 7ame of 8od&head. he mundane sound designates something else than itself. he transcendental Sound should be heard and no challenging question should be placed to contradict it. he "bsolute should be only approached and should not be opposed by any empiric acquisition. !t will be $illing time if we do otherwise. We should be always attending( and trying to $now by interrogatories. We do not pay sufficient attention so long as we thin$ that 'e should be challenged from other positions. ,ut the "bsolute does not propose to be challenged by any sensuous experience. he transcendental Sound comes through one who does not desire to meddle with anything of this world as the 2hemists( 6hysicists( and others do( who do not remember older ideas in the course of en4oying the troublous process of approaching the mundane sound. he transcendental Sound would destroy all acquisitions. o ta$e the help of those acquisitions would be li$e ta$ing help of the lantern for the purpose of loo$ing for the Sun. We should not ta$e such help. his sort of education has no propriety( no efficacy there. he transcendental Sound should come through the uncontaminated pipe of the true de#otee. %ne who thin$s that he should ha#e anything to do with this world cannot be the bearer of the message of the "bsolute. "ll things are found to e#aporate e#en before they are acquired. his is the case when there is a paralytic sei-ure. here are two quite different things( the external body and the subtle body which are impeding our progress. !f we are relie#ed of this( if we ignore this( if we do not lead our li#es li$e ordinary people of this world( we would get rid of the construction of our incorporated bodies. he soul is quite different from the physical body and the internal mind. he wor$ing of the brain or sense&percepts would lead to atheism. his is the plight of men who are busy with the acquisitions of the senses. he soul is wrapped up by the subtle body and confined to the mundane representations. hese exoteric impressions of the soul are not true heism.

he soul is free from the subtle body 4ust as we are free when we cast off our old apparel. hese bodies are brought from outside. he +go is different( it is their proprietor and need not be wrapped up nor incorporated by these tempting thoughts of this world by material considerations. We should be always dismissing mental speculation when recei#ing the transcendental Sound. his sort of $nowing( willing( feeling need not be incoporated. 9sic: We should se#er our connection@ otherwise it would lead us to subscribe to metempsychosis and we would thin$ that as we ha#e more li#es in store 5we could ma$e up in our later li#es for our present sins and so in this life let us be sinning5. ,y one&life theory people would be more careful. " man should be thoroughly ethical. 'e must not be encroaching upon the right of others. ,ut mental demeanour is made up of things that would lead to those troubles. he mentalist is( therefore( not at all moral. his poor idea of morality is found among many of us here( e#en though they may ha#e a sufficient long existence.

!nterviews with Mr. .illion Henri #an 'andor Stok o Bavaria

?ecember ED( 193F /2 && Cour 'oliness( $indly enlighten me about the different aspects of human pursuits. -2 && !n !ndia as in +urope we find people holding different #iews( but here we ha#e attempted to classify them into three di#isions. %ne class of people are see$ers of fruits of their action. "nother class wish to annihilate their indi#iduality. "nd the third class want( in their true sel#es as absolute infintesimals( to be in touch with the "bsolute !nfinity( re4ecting all non&absolute features. We belong to the third party. he see$ers of fruits by means of their actions are called *arma$andins in the Sans$rit language. he 2hristian way of thin$ing about life is included in *arma$anda. !n !ndia we ha#e also that sort of idea( that a person is to be 4udged by his action. 'e gets something in return as a reward for his pious deeds. >irtue and piety are the main principles that are wanted by such doers. .ost people understand this common #iew( which holds that what ! do will be either rewarded or reprimanded. We thin$ that we should li#e a pious life in order that we may be rewarded in our next life with all sorts of en4oyments. We ha#e got subtle bodies in which we are rewarded or punished. hat body is not exactly similar to the ordinary gross body( the mortal coil which we see here. +gyptians thought that they ha#e but one life and that they should ha#e no occasions to bear future li#es. ,ut persons who subscribe to the theory of metempsychosis thin$ that they will ha#e future li#es when they can ma$e up for the nefarious acts done both in their present li#es and in their past li#es( and recei#e grace from the great dispenser of 4ustice. hey are fruit&see$ers. hey want to gratify their senses. here are persons who han$er after $nowledge. hey went 9sic: to secure $nowledge by the empiric method. o them annihilation is the final goal. hey thin$ they should merge in the !nteger( the "bsolute( and that all the undesirable situations of this world will end with this merging. !n that case obser#er( obser#ation and obser#ed( these three situations are eliminated. When all the acti#ities of the senses such as hearing( tasting( smelling( seeing and touching will cease( the obser#er( obser#ation and the obser#ed will mix up together and there will be no occasion for $nowing( willing or feeling. "ll #olitional( cogitational and emotional acti#ities should cease( because they ha#e gi#en us a bitter experience@ and so( according to the empiricists( in order to ma$e an end of them( it would be better for us not to thin$ of anything which will respond to our senses. his idea is formulated by theorists li$e pantheists( agnostics( and sceptics. hese people thin$ that they will be able to secure happiness by destroying their identify. he third #iew is the theistic #iew. We belie#e that there is a 6ersonality of 8od&head and that we are persons. We want our troublous situations to be eliminated and wish to reach a peaceful position where we can freely mo#e and ha#e e#erything( whate#er we are in need of@ and this has resulted in directing us to the "bsolute Who is represented as a 6ersonality. !n the "bsolute 6ersonality we find three featuresB 'e is +#er&existent( 'e is e#er full of $nowledge and 'e is the )ountain&head of unceasing bliss. !n 'im there is no factor of time( no factor of

ignorance. !n 'im there is no discrepancy( no defect( no inadequacy( nothing of the $ind. !n our conception of 8od( we hold 'e is the +mporium of all bliss( all $nowledge( and no acts of nescience or ignorance are to be associated with 'im( and we should not see$ after any fruit for our worldly purpose( lea#ing 'im aside. 'e need not gi#e us anything. We are to ser#e 'im as ser#itors( 'e being the only 0ord. !n this world we find that hundreds of absolute infinitesimals trouble themsel#es with the undesirable elements of these phenomena. !f the undesirable elements are simply dri#en out( eliminated( then a desirable position can be had. ,ut in the ordinary conception of hea#en( we find that it is meant for our purpose( to get our wishes for en4oyment fulfilled( for our en4oyment apart from the en4oyment of the "bsolute. he en4oyment of the "bsolute is full( whereas our en4oyment is liable to be in#ol#ed in some troubles. "ll these miserable situations should be a#oided for the purpose of safety( for our peace. he eternal peace can only come if we are at all eager to engage oursel#es in the ser#ice of the 0ord( ! mean( the 6ersonality of 8od&head. 8od has got spiritual eyes( spiritual ears( spiritual nose( spiritual tongue( spiritual s$in and spiritual mind@ not material things li$e us. %ur senses are made up of material things and there is no such element in 8od. 8od is the +mporium of all desirable elements. 'e is found to be eternally +xisting( 'e is full of $nowledge( 'e is %mniscient and 'e is "ll&blissful. 'e delegates 'is power to certain absolute infinitesimals( or( in other words( the absolute infinitesimals are endowed with such potencies which enable them to transact affairs with the +ternal "uthority. %rdinarily we are placed in a region where all sorts of imperfections and undesirable situations are prominent( and we require that our bitter experience should de#ise some means to get rid of these unpleasant situations@ the painful propensities must be $ic$ed out from our acti#ities. We should be prepared for the stage where we can realise our own real sel#es. We should not trouble oursel#es here engaging oursel#es in amusements and other things. !t is necessary that some prudent( preparatory measures should be adopted during this life( that we should acquire the discretion to 4udge what is really desirable and ma$ing a thorough study of the re#ealed scriptures which ha#e come to us( find out how we could ameliorate our conditions and gi#e up the passionate desires that are engrossing such people as are busy with annihilating themsel#es or with fruit&see$ing endea#ours. he third party is $nown as ,ha$tas or de#otees who possess ,ha$ti which is the #ehicular agent to carry us to the "bsolute. !t will act as the tie uniting the 6ersonality of the 0ord and our personalities. %ur persons should be united with the 6ersonality of 8od( and that 6ersonality of 8od&head is purely spiritual and has no mundane reference. !f we wish to $now 'im by any mundane reference that would be li$e trying to send rays from the retina to the sun. Aust as we recei#e rays emanating from the self&luminous disc of the sun( so by the mercy of the Supreme 0ord we will be able to $now what 'e is( and after learning this( we will engage oursel#es for 'is purpose. We will ha#e nothing else to do in this world. We ha#e got the only purpose of associating oursel#es with the Spirit( with the %#er&soul. When we lea#e this mortal coil( we will be engaged in some occupation or other( but we should not thin$ that in the subtle bodies we will continue these conditions and ha#e our en4oyment. his en4oyment is temporary and in the long run becomes the cause of binding us to grosser coils. ,ut if we ha#e any mind to engage oursel#es with the +ternity( with "ll&$nowledge( and %ne Who is de#oid of ignorance and full of incessant ,liss( we must respond to 'is call( we should be participating with the "bsolute and not with the non& absolute en#ironment here. %ur phenomenal existence is not at all sympathetic to our highest aspiration. %ur so& called relati#es show that they are #ery $ind to us( but in the end we find that they too wish to draw something from us and at best ha#e only some wordly moti#e. hey are not $ind to us in the best sense. We should not be dissuaded by their influence. We should ha#e a stern will to gi#e up all our passionate en4oying habits( as well as the inclination for self&annihilation which the empricists Gsic: see$. he desire for annihilation as well as the tendency for en4oyment are to be sacrificed at the altar of de#otion. hey do wrong things. hey en4oy instead of ser#ing( and we want that we should be set free from all these wrong ideas of the speculati#e people of the world. We are aware of the history of ci#ilisation for the last ten thousand years and we expect that when the world shall ha#e run for some ten thousand years more some new troubles will arise and the human race will be destroyed by some influence which we cannot foretell now. So( the "bsolute is to be enquired into( what 'e is( whether 'e is a human being( or whether 'e belongs to the lower creation( or whether 'e is of a stony character@ whether the "bsolute is neuter( masculine or feminine. 0et us stri#e to acquaint oursel#es with all these ideas and thoughts about the next world and the "bsoluteB whether the region of the "bsolute has all sorts of manifesti#e phases( whether these phases are agreeable and free from in#asion of wrong thoughts. So( if we want to wash off all our wrong conceptions we will ha#e to surrender to the "bsolute !nfinity and then we shall be in touch with 'im. We will ha#e the opportunity of do#e&tailing oursel#es with 'im and no other ideas and thoughts should dissuade us

from ha#ing touch with the "bsolute. !f we can secure the tendency of lo#e for the "bsolute( we will be attracted by 'im. 'e 'imself is 0o#e. We ha#e no lo#ing tendency( whereas 'e is full of lo#e. We should try to meet the merciful strain by which 'e wants to attract us to 'im( to 'is region where there is no defect( no disagreeable feature( no ignorance and no undesirable situation. We should go bac$ there. We do not carry our bones and flesh there. he proprietor of these bones and flesh is to go there( lea#ing here all these dirty appurtenances for the en4oyment of 4ac$als and dogs and those creatures of the lower creation who ha#e no de#otional moti#e at all( who do not want to come in touch with the "bsolute !nfinity. .ost of the people of the globe are #ery busy with getting fruits( gratifying their senses by attending cinemas( dri#ing motorcars and they are quite indifferent about ser#ing those who can guide them to the "bsolute region. "ll the undesirable situations which impeded our course are to be eliminated. he en4oying and empirical acti#ities are obstructing our ways and we should try to dri#e them off. We should want that we should be in touch only with the "bsolute. "s de#otees( we are always in touch with 'im and ne#er dissociated from 'im. We want to ser#e 'im. We want to regain our position. We need not pass our time 4ust as ordinary people do. We should submit to the hea#en&sent messenger and follow his dictations. %ur philosophies and empirical $nowledge will be of no use to us. %ur de#otion should not be directed towards dogs( horses( men and women and other ob4ect of worldly phenomena. We need not ser#e such things. We should be determined to come in touch with the "bsolute Who is #ery different from the non&absolute phenomena. "ny person or thing that ser#es the 6ersonality of 8od( should be treated in a friendly manner. "nd if any persons or thing pro#es hostile in the cause of 'is ser#ice( we should lea#e that off. We should not try to understand the spiritual plane from the material standpoint. /2 && What do you understand by spiritual land? -2 && ,y Spiritual world we mean where we can ha#e association with the spirit. he "bsolute reser#es the right of not being exposed to human senses. he human senses are all prisoners. hey are all blind fellows. hey cannot see 'im. 1ather they indulge in wrong ideas and gi#e trouble to the people. he word ;8od; has been created by man. he direction is quite right( but what men produce in their factory is wrong. he people are engaged in non& absolute propaganda. his should cease. /2 && hose who wor$ for the welfare of the people( are they not good? -2 && Some people try to be good in order to en4oy a peaceful life. hey are friendly to others to get their help in return( and in most cases the aim is worldly contentment. /2 && 'ow should we $now the will of 8od? -2 && We are absolute infinitesimals and 'e is "bsolute !nfinity. !f we are sincere and submit to 'im( we will come in touch with 'im( and $now 'is Will. here are self&sufficient people who thin$ they can( by their empirical $nowledge( $now e#erything. ,ut the "bsolute cannot be $nown by our empirical $nowledge. his attempt would be li$e sending rays from the retina to the sun to $now what the sun is. We should ha#e nothing to do with the agnostics and *arma$andins of this world. hey will try to dissuade us from ha#ing an aptitude for de#otion. he de#otees are the most intelligent people. We should await the day when the .erciful 0ord will send 'is messenger to gi#e us that cessation of all connections with the world which we call death. We shall then be able to li#e the life of de#otees. %ur selection of friends should be among the de#otees. he agnostics and $arma$andins will only lead us to trouble. he de#otees are the only prudent and 4udicious people. he path of de#otion is the shortest and easiest way. !t is better that whate#er we ha#e gathered in this world( we should lea#e aside. We want to disown e#erything that is deemed to be quite suitable to persons who are busy with mundane affairs. We should consider oursel#es lower than the blade of grass. We ha#e now secured some non&absolute things which are quite inefficacious for our purpose. We should simply submit to the instructions of the de#otees whose only occupation is to come in touch with the "bsolute. /2 && What do you thin$ of the yogis?

-2 && We do not subscribe to the principle of yoga. he Cogis thin$ that they should ha#e some&thing for their own. hey ha#e no eternal purpose. he !ndian yogis thin$ that when they come in touch with the "bsolute( they will be restored to their original position and they will ha#e nothing to do later on. hey simply want emancipation from all troubles. he yogi thin$s that when his duties are finished he will be able to pass his time in indulgence. So indulgence is the ultimate ob4ect of a yogi. "nd for this they stri#e for emancipation from the bonds of $arma. he de#otees are first class yogis( but they care #ery little for emancipation. hey do not require these things. " de#otee would be more happy to abide by the decision of 6ro#idence instead of throwing off the troublous situation he has been put into. he Cogis are inclined to ha#e some personal moti#e( because( they require peace for themsel#es. hey do not want to engage themsel#es in the ser#ice of the 0ord( but they try to get something for their own. !f a yogi is at all successful in his endea#ours to come in contact with the "bsolute( 'e shows his stony aspect at that time. he yogis thin$ that 8od should be represented as a neuter thing( that no idea of sex should disturb their mind. he yogis want to reach $ai#alya of ;!swara&sayu4ya; and ;,rahma&Sayu4ya;. hey want to be made into 8od( li$e the sla#e "ltamsh who usurped the throne of his masters. hese are wrong ideas. he yogis are ne#er successful in their attempts and we should not adopt the principles of a yogi. !n paradise all sorts of en4oyments are supplied. ,ut who is the en4oyer? 'e is a poor man who has got all sorts of bitter experience in this world. !t is better for us not to be agnostics( yogis( $arma$andins and empiricists. he Supreme 0ord disclosed before the people the true system of de#otion. here was no party who could claim a better system. he $arma$andins and 4nanins ga#e up their established ideas and thoughts( they all submitted to the true and lo#ing wishes of the supreme "uthority Whom we want to see$. he Supreme "uthority is to be ser#ed and not the things which are hostile to the Supreme "uthority. What should be the Supreme "uthority? What is 'e? Should the word ;it; ser#e for indicating the "bsolute? %r should the predominating aspect be addressed as 5he5 and the predominated aspect as 5she5? he followers of the %ld estament li$e to apply ;it; to 8od and want that 8od should be neuter( and that no personal forms should be attributed to 'im( in order to differentiate 'im from the phenomenal existence. Some people say that if only the sub4ecti#e aspect is ascribed to 8od&head then the sub4ecti#e 9sic: aspect of 8od&head is neglected. We require that 8od&head should comprise both sub4ecti#e and ob4ecti#e aspects. here must be some ob4ects for the sub4ect otherwise the sub4ecti#ity cannot stand. When we tal$ of some relationship( the reciprocating portion should ne#er to neglected. !n theism we find that the predominating part should reciprocate the predominated parts@ these two parts should comprise the Whole thing( otherwise the 6lenary is di#ided into two( or is di#ided into three. 'ere in this world we find #arious relationships li$e that between husband and wife( between master and ser#ant( between friend and friend and between children and parents. !n the transcendental region the Supreme 0ord is the only ob4ect of these relationships. 'e is the only 'usband( the only .aster( the only friend and the only 2hild. here is also the neutral relationship with 8od&head. So in all we find there are fi#e $inds of relationships we can ha#e with the Supreme 0ord. !n the 7ew estament 8od is described as 8od the )ather( 8od the son and 8od the 'oly 8host@ but they neglect the fi#e relationships mentioned abo#e. Ser#ice of 8od in these fi#e relationships has been gi#en to man$ind by Shri *rishna 2haitanya. Ser#ice is the only function of the soul. We ignore the body when we are busy with the ser#ice of the 0ord. /2 && Why do you require ser#ice? -2 && %f all the occupations the best one is to attend to the ser#ice of the "bsolute. .an wants to lord it o#er the phenomena( but in the long run he becomes a sla#e of the phenomena. )or instance( there are people who wish to en4oy smo$ing and intoxicating liqueurs( but ultimately they become sla#es of those habits. We de#otees do not want our entities to be absorbed in the !nteger( we want to adopt the process of de#otion and ha#e some permanent engagement. We should examine what we really are. "re we the external frame( the emporium of sense or the mind? !f we analyse( we find that these are foreign elements incorporated into us. !n order to get rid of al this dirt( the only course left to us is de#otion which is ser#ice( ser#ice fully filtered and unalloyed. /2 && ?o you $now the "bsolute gradually or at once?

-2 && he $nowledge of the "bsolute can be had all at once( there is no factor of time and space. !f we are at all intent on $nowing 'im( we must ha#e some sort of ob4ecti#e reference for 'is sub4ecti#e acti#ity. 7ow we are busy with worldly affairs@ we thin$ we are men and women. !nstead of doing so( we should be ser#ing 'im( and when 'e participates with our pure sel#es( we will be set free from all the tempting influence of the different things of 7ature. We want that we should go bac$. 0i$e a shooting star( we ha#e strayed out of the range of 'is attraction. 0i$e a comet( we are 4ourneying without cessation. %ur eternal condition is that we are absolute infinitesimals( and as such( we should do#e&tail with the "bsolute !nfinity. he function between 'im and us is lo#e. 'e is the 0o#er. !f 'e lo#es us( we will be ta$en bac$. !f 'e has an apathetic tendency towards us it is because we are a#erse to 'im@ and we will be undergoing 8H millions of births and deaths( again and again. !t would be 4udicious for us that we should go bac$ to the "bsolute !nfinity( and that all our engagement should be with 'im( and not with anybody else.

"ro . -lbert &. Suthers !nterviews

The -uthor -nswers /uestions o "ro essor Suthers o 0hio 1niversity
Aanuary( 19E9 /2 && What is >edantism? -2 && %ne&sided and biased critics may understand absolute monism by the term !ndian >edantism( but those who are impartial and who 4udge things from all angles of #ision( find the transcendental personality of 8od&head as the settled conclusion of the >edantic doctrine. he theory of non&distinction has been wrongly preached as propounded in the >edanta( before a world which is a#erse to 8od( being disguised with the imperfect( partial and distorted conception of the >edanta 6hilosophy of !ndia which is the uni#ersal reality. !n reality the doctrine of personality of 8od&head is the proper conclusion of the >edanta and that is the true interpretation of the >edanta by the unbiased learned scholars. he unique and genuine interpretation of the >edanta( as contained in the Shrimad ,haga#atam( points at the true >edantic doctrine. Shri >yasade#a( the compiler of the >edanta&sutras( has himself as commentator elucidated the true meaning of the Sutras or aphorisms compiled by him( in the Shrimad ,haga#atam which re#eals their intrinsic import which equalises all sides( reconciles all di#ersities and is beyond all sectarian conflicts created by #arious professors of empiric $nowledge( who gi#e different shapes to the >edanta in their laboratories of mental researches. !t is only they that secure the true >edantic principles from the Shrimad ,haga#atam who can sa#e themsel#es from the danger of falling into the ditches of #arious imaginary principles and wrong sectarianism. o be brief( the difference between the followers of .aya#ada( or absolute&monism and the >aishna#a >edantics is that the former ha#e a bias for the idea of 7ir#isesha or non&distinction( whereas the latter accept the eternality of 6ersonal 8od&head. he monists are atheists in disguise@ on the other hand the >aishna#as are sincere theists@ the former are followers of the method of induction i.e. the process of reasoning from particular data to a general one( and the latter are followers of the deducti#e method of reasoning by which we arri#e at the necessary consequences of admitted or established premises@ i.e. a monist is inimical towards self&surrender to 8od( while a >aishna#a is inclined towards it. .ost of the intelligentsia of the present day !ndia are empiricists and as such( more or less( supporters of the .aya#ada of the monists. "charya Shan$ara has extensi#ely propagated this .aya#ada by dint of his exceeding intelligence and thus been able to capti#ate men5s minds. he supporters of Sa#isesha&#ada( the doctrine of eternity of personal 8odhead( are $nown as >aishna#as or theists. We shall call any persons of any country and any era as >aishna#as or theists to the same extent that this Sa#isesha#ada is found in them. We thin$ that the noble Aesus propagated Sa#isesha#ada( as "charyas Shri

>isnuswami( Shri 1amanu4a( Shri .adh#a( Shri 7imbar$a( etc.( did in !ndia. he Sa#isesha#ada as propagated by all the teachers of the world( more or less( found perfection in the preachings of the different !ndian "charyas( which ha#e attained the climax of mutual reconciliation of all souls of pure $nowledge distinct from matter. his Sa#isesha is the conclusion of .ahaprabhu Shri *rishna 2haitanya ?e#( Who( though 8od 'imself( played the part of a Supra&human 6rofessor of the /ni#ersity of 7adia. /2 && ?id the worshippers of *rishna encourage the obscenity of the engra#ings on many 'indu emples? -2 && hose who are actual worshippers of *rishna are ne#er in fa#our of indecencies. "ll decency and morality only are entirely confined to the 0otus&)eet of Shri *rishna. he highest sense of morality of the unadulterated soul consists in its lo#e towards the %#er&soul. "nd the culmination of this pure lo#e is found only in the de#otees of *rishna. he best of the moral rules as preached by the noble Aesus( do not come anywhere near the principle of the "morous 0o#e of the de#otees of *rishna( for ser#ice thereof. /2 && Cour 'oliness seems to ha#e ta$en a biased #iew in saying that the good moral precepts of 2hrist come nowhere near ;the morality; of amorous lo#e of the de#otees of *rishna;. -2 && 2ertainly not. We claim to be greater and better 2hristians than Westerners. %ur 4udgment is not restricted only to secular morality. he morality of the ob4ect of spiritual lo#e transcends the supra&natural morality( which again surpasses secular morality. !f 2hristian morality is perfected thereby( then it may be said to recei#e proper nourishment. o a pure soul that remains situated on that transcendentally moral plane of lo#e( the secular moralities appear reduced to the smallness of pygmies. ,ut there is not found any feeling of apathy( nor attachment towards these secular moralities. %n the other hand all moralities wait li$e maids behind the spiritual moralities to become glorified( being permitted to ser#e the 0ord of transcendental 0o#e. he character of a culturist of spiritual lo#e is ne#er de#oid of morality. %ne hostile to morality or fallen from it can ne#er be a spiritual man. !n the bla-e of the teaching of Shri 2haitanya ?e#a5s ideal( it has been propagated that dissoluteness is not de#otion. !ts palpable e#idence is found when we reflect on the character of Shri 2haitanya ?e#a or the followers at 'is heel. he people of the realm of the secular morality concerned with the worldly en4oyments and their renunciation will not be able to grasp in their tiniest brains how fostered by the climax of morality and how adored in the highest degree by all the morality of the uni#erse are the "morous Sports of *rishna so much glorified by the noble clan of such high personages of strictly continent character as the de#otees of Shri 2haitanya ?e#a li$e Shri 1upa( Shri Sanatana( Shri 1aghunatha ?asa( Shri 1aghun tha 9sic: ,hatta( Shri 8opal ,hatta( etc. /2 && 'ow can your 'oliness5s statements be reconciled with the descriptions that are found about *rishna5s amorous sports? -2 && *rishna5s "morous Sports are not temporal li$e the lustful sports of dramatic heroes and heroines li$e 1omeo&Auliet or e#en ideal spouses. 0ust as pre#alent in this world is only a mental passion@ but the lust of the transcendental region of *rishna has its own form. 'ere lust is always goaded by the enemy <one of the six passions=@ where in the transcendenral 9sic: region of *rishna( the lo#eliness of the spiritual ,ody of *rishna e#er dri#es the 0ust for *rishna( which ta$es form as sublimated lo#e or the desire to gratify the immaculate senses of *rishna. he conductor of the worldly lust is the enemy <passion=( and the conductor of lo#e is *rishna. !t is amorous Sports of *rishna that ha#e appropriateness@ but there is no such consistency in the lust born of the body and mind of 4i#a <creature=. *rishna5s "morous Sports are not to be called indecency( because it is *rishna Who is the only one unri#alled +n4oyer( +mbodiment of the 1eal ruth and the Spiritual ?espot. /2 && ! cannot fully appreciate this@ please let me understand a little more clearly. -2 && Suppose there are some angles( two right angles( four right angles( etc. here is the contracted character of a corner in the acute( obtuse or right angle. ,ut in the two right angles called the straight angle( e#en though called an angle( there is no contractedness or want of straightness( as is the case with angles in general. Such is the case with the "utocrat *rishna. here is no want or contractedness or despicable character or indecency in the 6erfect +ntity *rishna( li$e the circle of 3D3 degrees( though the communities of en4oyers or renouncers( championing

morality or immorality( may( due to the meagreness of their intellect( wrongly regard the lustfulness of *rishna( the result of 'is depotism which is only 'is( as #ulgar li$e that of common men and other creatures. /2 && !n the scriptures of !ndia( adorable ?eities ha#e been represented as creatures of the lower creation li$e fish( tortoise( boar( etc. !s this appro#ed by the sense of decency of ci#ilised humanity? Some again are in fa#our of supporting such representations as allegorical symbols. -2 && !magination does not find a place in >aishna#a 6hilosophy. !n it or in the Shrimad ,haga#atam which is the highest scripture for all men in the uni#erse has been described the topmost ontology about 8od( million times better than what the most ci#ilised races of humanity fi#e thousands years old( nay( as old as se#eral millions of eras( can concei#e of e#en in imagination. he eternal transcendental forms of 8od that descend or are manifested according to the gradual e#olution of the aptitude for offering ser#ice by the totally purified soul quite aloof from the regions of the body and mind( when man becomes the worshipper of the ultimate 1eality at the loftiest stage of ci#ilisation( are ne#er the idols of imagination or allegories li$e unreal things manufactured in the mental factory of man or li$e the imaginary animal deities of the barbarians such as the tiger&god( serpent&god( horse&god( etc. he worship of the >ishnu !ncarnations( li$e )ish( urtle( etc.( is not fabrication of imagination li$e that of one of the fi#e deities of the 'enotheists formed out of imagination( based on the coinage of set speeches li$e the imaginary conception of the forms of ,rahman <as in the 6anchadasi of the monistic school=. he 'enotheists do not admit the ranscendental 6ersonality of 8odhead. he sects of figurati#e allegorists li$e the heosophists are not real theists( cherishing( as they do( doubt against the 6ersonality of 8od and for that reason they want to curtail god5s %mni&potentiality and his ranscendental 7ames( "ppearances( "ttributes( Sports by means of allegorical description. he >aishna#a philosophy or that of the e#er&existent religion of !ndia has ne#er supported the atheistic doctrines of such professors of imaginary forms of ,rahman( or figurati#e allegorists. !t is about the doctrine of pure and real "#atara&#ada <cult of !ncarnation= that the philosophy of the e#er&existing !ndian religion has said. "s the pure and real doctrine of "#ataras of )ish( urtle( etc. of the >aishna#as is not a $ind of imagination of the barbarian taste( nor the idolatry of the .aya#adins on the basis of their aphorism of forms of ,rahman( imagined for the con#enience of practicants( nor the allegorical description of the psychists( so it is not the "nthropomorphism <i.e. representation of the deity as ha#ing human forms=( as de#ised by the so&called ci#ilised section of the people( nor herianthropism <i.e. representation of one5s tutelary deity in a combined man& and&beast form=( nor e#en "potheosis <i.e. ele#ating man to the dignity of deities=. hese are respecti#e types of the idolatry of the menatal speculationists of the inducti#e school. !n imitation of .aya#ada( the e#il fruit of the !ndian ci#ilisation( "nthropomorphsim was in#ented in 8reece and 1ome and herianthropism in +gypt( etc. When the new doctrines got access in those countries along with the commodities produced by the !ndian ci#ili-ation which were based on the imagination of the anthrophysites li$e the !ndian .aya#adins who exalted man or beasts to the status of 8od with the attribution of di#inity to them calling 4i#as and the poor as 57arayana5 with gratification of the senses in the bac$ ground( then the mental speculations of those respecti#e countries adopted the cheap #itiated !ndian dogmas and( labeling new names on them( passed these doctrinal commodities into the forum of religious tenets. ,ut the true >aishna#a philosophy of !ndia ne#er indulged in any such doctrine based on imagination. Shri 2haitanya .ahaprabhu has refuted all such imaginati#e doctrines or idolatries and re4ected both "nthropomorphism and herianthropism. 'e #ouchsafed the Shastric teaching( #i-.( that he must be a heretic and sinner who loo$s upon 8od 7arayana as equal to deities li$e ,rahma( etc. "nthropomorphism i.e.( representation of the ?eity with human form and attributes( resembles the tenet of the ,auls of ,engal attributing di#inity to the head of their sect( professing( as they do( though wrongly( to ha#e perceptorially descended from Shri 2haitanya .ahaprabhu. Such tenets are the mental imaginations of atheists li$e the ,ouddhas and of the ,auls as abo#e( running contrary to the teachings of Shri ,uddha&>ishnu and Shri 2haitanya&>ishnu respecti#ely. he .aya#adi sect too has adopted similar principles. he really scientific philosophy of the Shrimad ,haga#atam and the preachings of Shri 2haitanya ?e#a ha#e( of course( accepted the human body 91: as the ?i#ine .anifestation@ but that human body is not the creation of anthropomorphism( nor of the ,aul doctrine( but it is the eternal( transcendental Sachidananda ,ody( the 2ause of all causes( the highest Sporti#e +ntity. When the human soul can acquire the wealth of all the sciences in perfection( then only is opened the door of the foremost mystery of true science. "ccording to the >aishna#a 6hilosophy( the Sporti#e .anifestation of 8od is of two $inds. %ne $ind is the creation of the material and spiritual uni#erse and its

systemati-ation with in#iolable rules. he school of intelligent empiricists can to a certain extent experience this type of 8od5s Sporti#e .anifestation. he second $ind is the ?escent of 8od5s ranscendental Sport in this created uni#erse. !t is the 4i#as who are the attendants in 'is Sports. hey become attached to matter ha#ing de#iated from their own essential nature as the result of their desire for en4oyment. ,ut when again the soul of a 4i#a( gains true wisdom of the transcendental region of 8od at the feet of a representati#e of 'is( i.e.( a true de#otee 'is( he begins to get bac$ his pure essential nature gradually unfolded( and 8od5s ranscendental +ternal )orms appear as the ob4ects of his worship according to the comprehension of 'is ser#ice in the graded e#olution of acceptance of 'is protection( self&surrender or theism. So in such a case there remains no room( e#en in the slightest degree( for any form of imaginati#e doctrines of the so&called ci#ilised or unci#ilised human minds( whether apotheosistic( anthropomorphic( henotheistic( theosophic( theriomorphic or therianthropic. he real( eternal and transcendental ?i#ine )orms re#eal themsel#es to the pure souls according to the nature of their ser#ing mood in the e#olutionary growth there. he only cause of these ?i#ine ?escents is the intense .ercy of 8od towards 4i#as. !n +urope the theories of physical e#olution of ?arwin and 0amarc$ ha#e been considered. ,ut it is in the >aishna#a 6hilosophy alone that we see the fully scientific and real conception of each eternal and transcendental ?i#ine )orm for worship by the freed souls according to their e#olutionary growth of ser#ing mood. We can notice the different stages of animal life from the in#ertebrates to the fully grown human beings. hese stages ha#e been classified by the !ndian sages of a scientific outloo$ in ten orders( #i-( <1= the in#ertebrate( <E= testaceous or shelly( <3= #ertebrate( <H= erectly #ertebrate <as in the combined form of man and beast=( <F= manni$in( <D= barbaric( <I= ci#ilised( <8= wise( <9= ultra&wise and <13= destructi#e. hese are the historical stages of 4i#as. "ccording to the gradation of these stages as indications of e#olution of the ser#ing mood of the 4i#a soul( there are manifested the ten !ncarnations of 8od( #i-.( .atsya <fish=( *urma < urtle=( >araha <,oar=( 7rishmha <.an&0ion=( >amana <?warf=( 6arasu&rama( 1ama( *rishna( ,uddha and *al$i( as worshippable ?eities with eternal transcendental 7ames( )orms( "ttributes and Sports. hose who ha#e acquired a true $nowledge about !ncarnations with a thorough culture thereof( will be able( with the grace of the philosophers trained in the school of Shri 2haitanya .ahaprabhu( to appreciate the ontology of Shri *rishna( specially the intense sweetness of 'is Sports at ,ra4a <i.e. >rinda#ana and the neighbourhood.= /2 && ! ha#e 4ust listened to many subtle truths in the science and philosophy of religion. 6lease let me ha#e a conception of these intricate matters. -2 && he essential principle of >aishna#ism is that( how&so&e#er great a scholar and intellectual giant a man may be( he will not be able to appreciate e#en the easiest points of the >aishna#a philosophy( until and unless he has entirely surrendered himself to an "charya whose character is the embodiment of the >aishna#a 6hilosophy. Cou must ha#e heard about the !ndian scripture named ;8ita;( which has been translated into different languages in the ci#ilised world. here is a Shlo$a in it 9E: which says that the >aishna#a 6hilosophy is understandable only with unconditional surrender( honest enquiry and ser#ing temper. !t is only to such an approach the professors of >aishna#a 6hilosophy with these three as the preceptorial fee( that they gi#e instructions about the correct philosophical truths. hese professors are ne#er to be tempted by any type of worldly fees. /2 && he 8ita has admitted the doctrine of the ransmigration of the soul. What does your >aishna#a 6hilosophy say about this? -2 && he ;8ita5 is not separate from the >aishna#a 6hilosophy. !n the Shrimad ,haga#atam has been fully re#ealed the true import of the doctrine( #i-.( that of changes of births for the soul. 2hristianity has disregarded the principle of change of births on the alleged ground that if it is accepted( men will not restrain their sinful propensities( rather they will indulge in #ices at their sweet will in their present life( on the expectation that they will be able to ma$e good their sins( guilts( and wrong going of this life in the course of the following ones. ,ut the Shrimad ,haga#atam has crowned the principle with its true significance( by means of a much fuller scientific and philosophical meaning( by gi#ing the instruction about the urgent necessity for ardently ta$ing up and culturing de#otion to 8od e#en while the human life( not easily a#ailable in the after&li#es( is at our disposal( without

spending a single moment thereof in other useless pursuits. !f we do not accept the doctrine of transmigration of the soul and adopt the instruction of the Shrimad ,haga#atam( we shall not be able to get o#er the all&de#ouring disaster of regarding matter as the sole ob4ect of our concern( which has $ept its mouth wide open. hough most of the 2hristians do not admit transmigration( yet many instellectual glants 9sic: of the 2hristian world ha#e shown se#eral instances of their acceptance of the doctrine. +#en in the ,ible 93: we find ;"nd as Aesus passed by( he saw a man who was blind from his birth. "nd his disciples as$ed him( saying( && 5.aster( who had commited the sin? his man or his parents( that he was born blind?; !t is seen that e#en some 2hristian )athers clearly ga#e instructions about transmigration. %rigen saidB ;!s it not more in conformity with reason that e#ery soul for certain mysterious reasons is introduced into a body and introduced according to its deserts and former actions?; 9H: ;! am sure that !( such as you see me here( ha#e li#ed a thousand times and ! ha#e to come again another thousand times; says 8oethe. What the 8ree$s called ;.etempsychosis5 or what is ; ransmigration5 in the +nglish language( was at one time( more or less( admitted in ancient 8reece( +gypt and many places in the west. Some say that the apostles of 2hrist the 8reat( failing to reconcile their pre#ious and subsequent conclusions with the doctrine of ransmigration( were compelled to discard it. Cet no rationalist among the 2hristians has been able to refute the doctrine on the basis of sound reasoning@ on the other hand( most of them ha#e had to admit it e#en. 'eredotus( 6indar( 6lato etc.( ha#e all accepted it. 'uxley( the illustrious scientist of the nineteenth century( has written in his religious wor$( 5+#olution and +thics5B ;7one but #ery hasty thin$ers will re4ect it on the ground of inherent absurdity( li$e the doctrine of e#olution itself( #i-.( that of transmigration which has its root in the world of reality and it may claim such support as the great argument of 5"nalogy5 is capable of supplying.; 6rofessor 0utolos$i has said( ;! cannot gi#e up my con#iction of a pre#ious existence on earth before my birth( and ! ha#e the certainty to be born again after my death( until ! ha#e assimilated all human experiences( ha#ing been many times male and female( wealthy and poor( free and ensla#ed( generally ha#ing experienced all conditions of human existence.; ,ut such transmigration theories of the empiricists of the west or those of the western philosophers of the se#enteenth and eighteenth centuries li$e )ranciscus .ercurius 'elmont( 0eichtenburg( 0essing( 'erder( Schopenhauer( etc.( or of Aallaluddin 1umi of the Sufi sect of 6ersia( or of the heosophists( or of the !ndian 7yaya 6hilosophy under the aphorismB ;)rom the desire for the mother5s breast&mil$ due to the habit of the pre#ious life(; or of the ,uddhistic doctrine of annihilation in matter & these are assailable by #arious hostile reasonings and( ha#ing their origin in inducti#e concepts are incomplete and imperfect. ,ut the conclusion in this respect of the Shrimad ,haga#atam is fully flawless and significant. he >aishna#a 6hilosophy ha#ing shown the royal road to the acquirement of the highest blessedness e#en in the present life( there is no need for waiting for future li#es. "s such( the >aishna#a 6hilosophy is thoroughly aloof from all wrangling full of useless riddles o#er the doctrine of transmigration. /2 && ! am able to feel the super&excellence of the >aishna#a 6hilosophy among the !ndian 6hilosophies. ,ut to my mind the acceptance of idolatry in the >aishna#a 6hilosophy li$e the other !ndian philosophies seems to be a stigma in it. -2 && !dolatry has ne#er been accepted in the >aishna#a 6hilosophyB on the other hand( it has been more or less accepted in the other philosophies( at least mentally( if not in so many words. !n the #ery word 5,haga#an5 <8od= ha#e accumulated all the excellences that are there in the human and supra&human conceptions. he existence of .a4esty( #i-. the furthermost limits of both #astness and minuteness( is a characteristic of 8od. he second characteristic is 'is %mnipotence. !f one understands the word 5omnipotence5 to mean what is concei#able by the human intellect or what is possible for man( one is wrong. 8od is %mnipotent( because what is impossible according to the human intellect is within the ambit of the inscrutable power of 8od. ?ue to 'is inscrutable power( 'e is simultaneously both with and without )orm. !t will be the denial of 'is inscrutable power( if you say that 'e cannot ha#e 'is )orm( or 'e has not 'is +ternal )orm( only ha#ing a )orm for the time being( none in the end. ,y dint of 'is inscrutable power( 'e is with 'is +ternal Sporti#e )orm before a liberated soul con#ersant with the ser#ice of 'is 6otencies. 2ontemplation only on formlessness is rather unnatural and de#oid of differential

excellence. 8od is always "ll&8ood( "ll&8lory and "ll&,eauty. 'is ,eauty is #isible only to the transcendental eye. 8od is the ranscendental 1eality( 6ure( )ull and Sentient in essence and Sentient +ssence is 'is )orm. !t is true that 8od has no material body( but 'e has 'is Sat <+ternal= 2hit <"ll&Sentient= "nanda <"ll&,lissful= ranscendental ,ody #isible only to the eye that is clear <de#oid of matter=. o the material eye( 8od is )ormless( but to the transcendental eye 'e is with 'is ,ody of 2hit or "ll&Sentience. he .oortis <forms of body= prepared and worshipped by those who ha#e not seen this 2hit&,ody of 8od with their true and eternal eye cleansed with the collyrium of the lo#e of 8od are of course idols and all the worshippers of those idols must be idolaters. he worship of mooortis of 8od prepared from imagination may be called idolatry. Suppose !( who ha#e not seen Aacob( ma$e a .oorti of his 9sic: out of imagination( this .oorti is not the replica of his form. ,esides( if Aacob is a creature of this world( whose body( mind and soul are different from one another( his photograph being only the replica of his material body is different from his eternal and intrinsically true form. ,ut 8od with 'is Sat&chit& ananda ,ody is not such a thing@ 'is ,ody and Soul are not different from each other@ nor are 'is 7ame and Soul( 'is )igure and Soul( 'is "ttribute and )igure( 'is "ttribute and Soul( 'is Sport and Soul( 'is Sport and )igure( 'is Sport and "ttribute( different. !f a pure entity or unmixed soul sees that +ternal )orm of 8od and recei#es !t in his own pure receptacle and then places this ranscendental )orm in the world from his heart as illuming the intrinsically and essentially true )orm of 8od( that ne#er deser#es to be called an idol. Aust as e#en by coming down to this phenomenal world( 8od remains untouched by the influence of maya( by dint of 'is inscrutable power( so does 'is true )orm( too( as re#ealed to the unmixed entity of 'is de#otee( remain abo#e it( e#en though brought down here. )or this reason the >aishna#a 6hilosophy terms Shri&.oorti as 'is 5"rcha#atara5 <Worshippable ?escent=. he conception of 8od without )orm in contradistinction to 'is +ssential )orm is as calamitous as is the falsely imagined )orm of 8od for one competent to see 'is rue )orm. Such insignificant processes occur before attaining to the 1eal +ntity and do only grope in the dar$ness. he Shri&>igraha of the >aishan#a 6hilosophy cannot but be the direct indication of the +ssential )orm of 8od. ,y way of an imperfect comparison it may be said to be the proxy of the essential )orm of 8od which is beyond the cognisance of the material eye( 4ust as there are( in art and science( crude representations of in#isible matter. 'ow can those( that ha#e not in their heart lo#e of 8od which is the true function of the soul and is the science of the true $nowledge of realities( thin$ of the Shri&.oortis <Shri >igrahas= as other than idols? he deliberations of the >aishna#a 6hilosophy are #ery fine. hese ha#e shown by true scientific analysis that they are all( more or less( idolaters who declare themsel#es as partisans either of the doctrine of no )orm of 8od or that of 'is material )orm. Aust as those who attribute 8od&ship to matter and worship it li$e the fire worshippers among the unci#ilised people or the worshippers of the planets( such as Aupiter( Saturn( etc.( of 8reece( are crude idolaters( in a similar manner the others( who declare e#erything beyond matter as formless( and become exponents of the doctrine of non&distinction( are equal or e#en greater idolaters. he 'enotheists or worshippers of one of the >edic deities or the worshippers of the fi#e deities <called 6anchopasa$as= worship imaginary icons( considering them as 8od. "ccording to them( 8od has no Sat&2hit& "nand&>igraha( and as without some form there can be no sub4ect for contemplation( to ma$e it easy to meditate on 'im( some form has got to be imagined. hey are all idolaters. So also is the conduct of some of the Cogis and others to be regarded as idolatry( who( for purifying their heart or impro#ing the functions of the mind( imagine a 8od and perform practices of contemplation( etc.( of some imaginary form of 'is. hose who consider 4i#as as 8od are the most blasphemous idolaters( because to imagine any worldly thing or form as 8od is idolatry. /2 && ! ha#e truly been astonished to hear from your 'oliness these mysteries of the >aishna#a 6hilosophy and their scientific analysis with the most reasonable arguments. ! could not e#en thin$ before that there are in the >aishna#a 6hilosophy such excellent solution( corroboration and elucidation of the problems of !ndian 6hilosophy. -2 && he >aishna#a 6hilosophy has spo$en about true wisdom. rue wisdom is not sub4ect to an attac$ from any ri#al camp li$e the changeable and fluctuating $nowledge of the empiricists@ this is the special feature of the >aishna#a 6hilosophy. he philosophies that ha#e been( are being and will be built on the foundation of

empiricism will be abandoned( enlarged and altered along with the increase and decrease of experience. ,efore the ci#ili-ation fi#e&thousand years old( the three&thousand year old ci#ilisation is imperfect@ and the se#en&thousand year old one is more enlarged@ and in ten thousand years it will be still further changed and enlarged. he >aishna#a 6hilosophy built( as it is( upon the strong unalterable foundation( of true and perfect wisdom is not fit for change and reformation through scuffling and disputes e#en li$e the foot&ball being $ic$ed to and fro. he Shrimad ,haga#atam which is the essence of the >edas and >edantas spea$s of the real ruth. his scripture describes something which is beyond the regions of human ci#ilisation and all the rules and regulations of society( and spea$s about the attainment of another or spiritual body by the soul. Some empiricists of the inducti#e school do not recogni-e this change of body for the soul. here are others who try to pro#e such a change by #arious mundane reasonings. Some of them cite the example of the tendency of a newly born mon$ey to grasp the branch of a tree( or that of a new&born rhinoceros to fly away from the mother( considering which( they say( e#ery one must ha#e to admit the pre#ious life of creatures and cannot disbelie#e the transmigration of souls. "s a baby& rhinoceros is born( it runs away from the mother lest the mother should lic$ its s$in. 'er tongue is so sharp that the bar$ of a tree lic$ed by her is remo#ed. he baby comes to the mother only when its hide gets hardened in the course of a few days. Seeing these( the empiricists realise that this habit of the baby rhinoceros is indicati#e of its pre#ious birth. he >edic scriptures( howe#er( ha#e gi#en a scrutinising analysis of the mutual difference of the soul( the mind and the body as the atomic sentience( pseudo&sentience and matter. he soul <atma= is the owner of the body and the mind. hese two are the properties of the soul which again is the property of the Supra&soul <paramatma=. he Supra&soul is the casual sentience and the soul <4i#atma= is the effectual sentience. he soul has two bodies or distinguishing properties@ one is the subtle one or mind and the other the crude one i.e.( material body. he outer body is the aggregate of atoms of the fi#e elements of matter@ the inner or mental body is the conductor of the outer body. he soul in its conditioned or bound state is connected with foreign properties through the mind. he soul is now asleep and inattenti#e to the ser#ice of the Supra&soul. Seeing the owner asleep( the subordinate wor$ers( mind and body( are busy about their mean self&interest( instead of loo$ing after the interest of their owner. "ll the uni#erse( animate and inanimate( is included within the Supra&Soul@ in reality e#ery creation is animate. %ur scriptures ha#e pro#ed this since time immemorial. Sir Aagadish 2handra ,ose has pro#ed( e#en by the inducti#e process( before the empiric school( that there exists animation e#en within grass shrubs( creepers( etc. /2 && ! shall some time see ?r. ,ose. !s the conception of our difference from the Supra&Soul born of our ignorance? -2 && We shall consider how in our conditioned state we ha#e been en#eloped by the two distinguishing properties( and how again we shall be liberated there&from. hese two are non&souls. +#en in this conditioned state we are animate( not insentient. he non&souls( #i-. he body and the mind( are connected with the outer and mental worlds. We ha#e yet to attain to what is beyond the body and the mind. ,y 54i#a5 is meant 5soul5( 5mind5 and 5body5. "ccording to Shri 1amanu4acharya the Supra&Soul is indeed one Sentient ,ody. 'e has two ,odies@ in 'is mental ,ody there is the aggregate of 4i#as@ the outer ,ody is the material world. he different parts of the mental ,ody of the Supra&Soul are the 4i#atmas or atomic sentience. When the 4i#atma or atomic sentience feels himself as a protege of the )ull Sentience or Supra&Soul and becomes steady in 'is eternal ser#ice( his nescience or ignorance becomes extinct. !t is this contact through ser#ice between the Supra&Sentience and the atomic sentience as the "sylum and the dependant respecti#ely that amounts to the absence of the material conception of differentiation. !n the all&world philosophical conception( the son&ship to 7anda of the 6lenary 8od as found in the >aishna#a 6hilosophy is entirely a no#elty. here is no such highest conception about 8od&ship( so nice in e#ery respect( in any other philosophy. he other philosophies can concei#e of only the )ather&hood of 8od&head. ,ut the excellence of the Son&hood of 8od&head in which has been manifest the climax of lo#e of 8od( has not found place in the brain of any other philosopher.

/2 && What other conception can be better than the )ather&hood of 8od&head? !t is only Aesus who has taught us to call 8od as 5)ather.; 7o other feeling can there be better in the religious world than the lo#e that arises in the mind when 8od is called 5% 8od( hou the 8reat )ather.5 -2 && Ces( it is true that the )ather&hood of 8od is a special feature of 2hristianity. Why in 2hristianity alone( the 6arent&hood of 8od is found in some !ndian religious conceptions too. ,ut if we consider with a scrutinising scientific analysis( we can find that this 6arent&hood has been attributed to 8od from the inducti#e standpoint of #iew( i.e.( out of gratitude to 8od whose $indly presence we admit on the analogy of the worldly father or from some desire to get some worldly benefit from 'im. here is only to be traced the attitude of gratefulness of a being or that of an indifferent spirit of his( when the different religions of !ndia too call 'im as the 52reator5( 5Sustainer of the /ni#erse5( 56rotector of the World5( 52ontroller of the /ni#erse5( 58reat )ather5( etc.( from the angle of #ision of the attributes of 7ature on the one hand( or ,rahman( etc.( from an angle contrary thereto( on the other. "nd so such conceptions are only indirect or secondary instead of being the principal or chief ones. ,ut in the indirect conception there is no attachment or lo#e. his point has rather got to be understood carefully. hough there is no connection between the attributes of 7ature and the 7ames of 8od li$e ;7arayana5( 5>asude#a5( 5'rishi$esa5( etc.( as pre#alent in the >aishna#a 6hilosophy( yet they are indicati#e of 'is .a4esty. here is a spirit of regard and re#erence behind these. ,ut where there is no such restriction of re#erence( rather where( in spite of some reference to 'is Supreme .a4esty( there is a want of the rise of such re#erential spirit( the innate lo#ing spirit remains steady and does not become slac$ened. he conception of Son&ship of 8od has its basis on the feeling of such sweetness of the highest 0o#e. >asude#a and ?e#a$i were told by *rishnaB ;! re#eal .y .a4esty before you that you may $now .e to be 8od@ or else you would ha#e $nown .e as a human being.; 8od told "r4una tooB ;Aust see .y .a4estic )orm.; >asude#a told *rishnaB ;Cou are not our son( but the %#er&0ord of ?i#ine Spirit and 7ature.; "r4une in the 8ita 9F: as$ed pardon of *rishna for ha#ing called 'im his )riend( etc. !n both these examples 8od5s .a4esty has been indicated. ,ut such was not the conception of 7anda and the ladies of ,ra4a. hey regarded e#en that 8od as their Son and 0o#er( as the case might be( whose 0otus&)eet are adored by all the scriptures( by deities li$e ,rahma( Shi#a( etc.( men( gandarbhas( etc.( and worshipped with low salutations. 7anda( Casoda( etc.( did not loo$ upon *rishna as the Supreme )ather or the 'ighest 8od. !f a person becomes the o#erlord of the wealthiest millionaire of the world( his parents do not stand li$e other people before him with folded palms in awe and re#erence( offering prayers and expressing gratitude( nor do his friends hesitate to be 4ocular as e#er in his presence( nor does his wife deal with him with special #eneration li$e the people of the outside world and stay at a respectable distance. When the cow& herd boys( 'is friends( reported to mother Casoda( that 'e had put some earth into 'is .outh( she rebu$ed 'im. She could not do so( if she had the idea that *rishna( the Supreme )ather( was the ob4ect of her reprimand. She was able to regard the 'ighest +ntity as her own ob4ect of so close and affectionate lo#e that due to the depth of that lo#e she could chide or e#en beat 'im and thin$ of the Sole .aintainer of all maintainers as worth maintenance and nourishment at her hands. his is not intelligible to the mere theorists of gratefulness who are foreigners to affectionate lo#e towards 8od. When chidden 9sic: by his mother( *rishna( afraid( as it were( of her( opened 'is .outh to pro#e 'is innocence@ and she saw the limitless uni#erse within !t. Cet her feeling towards 'im as her son was not remo#ed( such was the depth of her affectionate lo#e for 8od. /2 && So far it has been the effusion of emotionality only. 6lease con#ince me rationally how the conception of 8od5s Son&ship is superior to 'is )ather&hood. -2 && !t appears as if you were either inattenti#e for a while( or unable to closely follow me. ! was all this time gi#ing you scientific reasonings. !n the >aishna#a 6hilosophy there is no place for material emotion of any $ind. he ephemeral emotionality relating to matter is no de#otion@ it is only the property of the mind. %ur conception is that of the property of the soul. ! was so long adducing reasons and examples to con#ince you how the natural lo#e of the soul for 8od reached its climax in the conception of 'is Son&ship as the Son of Shri 7anda. Cou will not be able to easily get that idea with the help of reasoning only. Cou should not thin$ of material emotionality when the actual example is gi#en. With innumerable reasonings ! shall show you that the conception of the )ather&hood of 8od emanates only from a sense of gratefulness. )ather&hood has been attributed to 8od more or less in

accordance with such conceptions as 8od has created us( 'e has been sustaining us with the #arious gifts of nature( and for these 'e is )ather and we should be paying 'im re#erential homage on that account. JB && %ur Aesus 2hrist has called 8od as )ather not exactly on these grounds@ Aesus introduced himself as 8od5s son for something else. "B && Ces( about Aesus5 son&hood you sayB ; he son is the complete re#elation of the )ather whose nature he shares( and of whose powers he is the sole heir( the only begotten son( and he is in absolute dependance 9sic: on the )ather. 5.y )ather and ! are one. .y )ather wor$est hitherto and ! wor$.5 he son can do nothing except what he seeth the )ather do. "s son( he $nows the )ather@ as 8od he can spea$ for 8od. "s wholly dependant on the )ather( and wholly obedient to 'is will( the message is true.; 7ow the ideal of regard based on the sense of gratitude of the son to the Supreme )ather is not absent because of the conception of Aesus5 son&hood of 8od on account of his being 'is heir in respect of 'is nature( power and attributes. ! thin$ that you concei#e of 8od as the Supreme )ather in imitation of 2hrist( 'is son( and read hymns to 'im with #arious praises indicati#e of gratefulness. !n our 8audiya 6hilosophy there is no sense of gratitude or any other cause at the root of the lo#e or attachment towards 8od. Where there is some cause( the 8audiya 6hilosophy does not call such lo#e as causeless or moti#eless. he attribution of 6arenthood to 8od must ha#e some cause behind it. 'im or her whom we call father or mother and who are adorable( we cannot worship( when( a#erse to 8od( we stay in the mother5s womb@ e#en after being born we cannot do so in our infancy or childhood. 1ather we being their indulged pets treat them as our ser#ants. here is no de#otional piety during those periods when instead of worshipping them( we demand and accept ser#ice from them. !t is no mean outrage on such adorable parents to con#ert them to ser#ants. his is the effect of our desires. hus we see that human or other beings do not acquire fitness for ser#ing parents from the #ery beginning. hough with the growth of intelligence we show some efforts to ser#e them( generally this has its origin in a retributi#e sense of gratitude or dutifulness in return for the benefit recei#ed from them. %ften we show such efforts in order to inherit the property earned by them with labour and left behind them. /nder the circumstances it is in the sense of gratitude or obedience to established order originating from moti#es( that is at the root of the conception of parent&hood@ there is absolute want in it of causeless or moti#eless lo#e. he offering of ser#ice to the master in consideration that if the money paid by him as wages is not discharged( there will be sin committed & amounts to traffic$ing. he ser#ice of 8od or attribution of 6arenthood to 'im or calling 'im as the Sustainer( 6rotector( Sa#iour( "ffectionate( 8racious( etc.( arising out of the sense of awe( hope( dutifulness or gratitude( all these originate from some moti#e or cause and( as such( are far from 'is ser#ice and worship arising from the natural lo#e of the soul towards 'im. /2 && ?o you recogni-e caste distinction? he caste 'indus loo$ down upon the other classes with an eye of contempt and neglect. ?o you too do so? -2 && "s the 4udgment of the >aishna#a 6hilosophy is fa#ourable towards the ser#ice of 8od( the technologies gi#ing expression to it are also different from those of the ordinary 4udgments of moralists or other sects. Cou ha#e already heard that the >aishna#as ha#e no regard for the morality or ethical principles of atheists. hey do not also pay much respect to the reality of the moral principles of the theists in whose 4udgment worship of 8od is only of secondary importance. hey say that the ser#ice of 8od or lo#e of 8od is the principal matter. %ther matters should be helpful and subser#ient to that principal matter. When the two things( #i-.( innate tendency and circumstance of man become ready to be helpful towards the principal matter #i-.( 8od5s ser#ice( then is established a good social order $nown as ?ai#a >arnasrama <?i#ine System of castes and stages of life=. ill the natural tendency of the human soul is fully manifest( the #iolation of this order causes much disorder and difficulty both indi#idually and aggregately. his caste system follows man5s nature and predilection. !t is scientific to ascertain one5s caste in accordance with one5s natural predilection. .uch disturbance is created( both indi#idually and aggregately( on account of the non&acceptance of this in#iolable scientific principle of natural predilection as obser#ed and promulgated by our ancient sages of #ast experience( and the wrong adoption of the seminal principle only i.e.( the principle of determining caste by birth alone. !t is due to the fact that this principle of caste

determination was at one time perfect and nice at all points in !ndia( that e#en this day the !ndians are able to stand erect with a challenging mood before the world on the glorious foundation of the past. !f we examine the present social system of the +uropeans( we find that whate#er beauty we find in that system has as its source the determination of the caste or social order according to natural predilection. here we find that a person ha#ing a martial tendency <i.e.( that for the life of a *shatriya= 4oins the army@ another with a tendency of a >aisya is engaged in impro#ing commerce@ those with the tendency peculiar to Shudras ser#e others. 7o society can wor$ well( if it does not( more or less( adopt the caste system based on natural inclination in some form or another. +#en among the +uropean nati#es in marital relationships and during social feasts a distinction is made between the higher and lower forms of society go#erned by natural predilection to which the participants belong. hought the natural caste system is to a certain extent adopted by the +uropean Society( it has not yet acquired scientific perfection. !t can do so alongside of the progress in ci#ili-ation and $nowledge. !n !ndia( howe#er( this system attained to perfection on the basis of the determination of the natural predilection. he great history of !ndia( #i-.( the .ahabharata( gi#es thousands of instances to pro#e this fact. !t is on account of the fact that in !ndia such a system was based on a scientific foundation that all other nations of the world adored the !ndians as their spiritual guides. +#en the people of +gypt( 2hina( etc.( recei#ed instructions in all matters with their heads bent down before !ndians. We find in the ancient history of !ndia that formerly there was only one caste and that later on society became most scientifically di#ined into the castes of ,rahmanas( *shatriya etc.( according to disparity in the instincti#e inclination for the ser#ice of 8odhead. he "charya placed one in the higher or lower grade of caste system according as the degree of li$ing for 8od5s ser#ice was high or low. hose who were attached towards this ser#ice with the strongest de#out ardour and as such e#inced the greatest intelligence became ,rahmanas. hey formed the head of the huge body of the society. "ccording to the guidance of this head were conducted the hands( the thighs and the legs( #i-.( the *shatriyas( >aisyas and Shudras respecti#ely. 6lease consider this. !t is this head of ours that occupies the highest place in our body( and it is the propellant of all our senses. What need is there to say more( when all the senses( #i-.( the eyes( the ears( the nose( the tongue and the s$in are all combined in the head. !t is there that these along with the mind( intellect and egoism( are all settled. When any other limb becomes disordered( its wor$ may be conducted in some other way@ for example( when a hand is amputated( oftentimes its function is managed by means of fixing up an artificial hand in its place. ,ut when the brain becomes defecti#e or when the head is decapitated( none of the limbs li$e the hands( legs( etc.( can wor$. !n the same way( the head of the social body( which guides its intelligence indicates the faculty of the ,rahmana. So prayer is offered for being directed with the mood for ser#ing 8od in the 8ayatri&mantra <1ig >edic hymn= to be daily recited by a ,rahmana with a worshipful spirit. he ,rahmanas ha#e no other intellectual aptitude than such an ardent mood of ser#ice to 8od&head. %ne is degraded to a *shatriya( >aisya or Shudra according to the degree of his fall from that ardent mood of di#ine ser#ice( under the guidance of some other moti#e. he ,rahmanas represent the brain and the mouth. he function of the brain is to regulate all with the aptitude of de#otion towards 8od( and that of the mowth 9sic: is to propagate the accounts about 8od. !t is these ,rahmanas that are the real owners of e#erything@ because they are the 8oswamis or masters of the senses i.e.( ser#itors of 8od. hey do not misappropriate anything to their own use( but they appropriate e#erything to 8od. )or this all persons of the society confide in them and choose them as their spiritual guides. hey who( instead of accepting such a ,rahmana( rather bear a grudge against him( fall off from the path of all good. "fter this brain and mouth comes the consideration of the arms to which are compared the *shatriyas then that of the thighs which the >aishyas represent( and then come the Shudras( who( on account of their base character and unsteady mind are li$ened to the feet. "nd those whose li#es are altogether uncontrolled are $nown as "ntya4as <untouchables= and regarded as outside the group of the four classes( as abo#e. he >aishna#a 6hilosophy recogni-es ?ai#a >arnasrama ?harma which implies classification according to the di#ine system by which men are di#ided into castes according to their natural predilection. !n the present society is found its corrupted form. here arises no question of hating or disregarding any body according to the system of >arnasrama recognised by .ahaprabhu Shri 2haitanya ?e#a or according to the process of culturing de#otion to 8od as shown by 'im( which is e#er beyond that system. !n the teaching gi#en by 'im there is found instruction to show respect to e#ery creature in its relationship with 8od. he 4udgment of Shri 2haitanya .ahaprabhu is far superior to the slight impro#ement of the condition of the lower castes as proposed by the modern social reformers( nay( it far excels e#en the impartial

equality as taught in the 8ita. he proposal of the worldly&minded moralists for slightly raising the status of the lower forms of society has some extraneous moti#e as its cause@ there are #arious purposes hiding behind it( such as political ob4ects( personal interests( moti#e for acquiring fame and such other ends. hese subordinate principles ha#e gi#en rise to attempts for uplifting the lower castes( which are of an extremely worldly character and clearly betrary 9sic: their hypocrisy. he instruction in the 8ita to loo$ on all as equal to the self from the principle that all are souls is se#eral times more ele#ated than they and is free from the worldly dirt. ,ut the teaching of Shri 2haitanya ?e#a is not merely prohibiti#e of worldliness and based on impartiality( but it is a positi#e one of the character of transcendentalism or of a supra&mundane type. Shri 2haitanya ?e#a wants to engage all 4i#as in the ser#ice of 8od and thereby to ele#ate them to the highest status. 'e con#erts a crow to 8aruda <the prince of +agles=. he religion promulgated by 'im is not meant for ,engal alone( nor for !ndia e#en( but for all countries( all #illages. 'is is the uni#ersal religion for all creatures. So has 'e saidB ;.y 7ame will be propagated in all towns( all #illages that exist in the world.; 'is uni#ersal religion of lo#e attracted animals( trees( grass( shrubs( creepers and e#en the ferocious creatures li$e tigers( etc.( from their outward identification to the inward one of the #ery essential constitution( ha#ing been spread among them too. he religion as promulgated by 'im is that of the soul@ and not that of the society( physical( mental and moral( and is not restricted to the usual form of de#otion of the ser#ant to the .a4estic 0ord. +#ery 4i#a is entitled to culture 'is religion( for it is property belonging to e#ery 4i#a. 'is religion disco#ers the innate nature of the 4i#a soul and is manifested in the unabated plenary lo#e for 8od. he message of lo#e as propagated by 'im is not merely the instruction of pseudo&lo#e founded on gratitude. "ccording to 'im( *rishna is the "bsolute 6ersonality( the Spiritual ?espot. he religion of lo#e consists in the full gratification of 'is Senses. he 4i#a should be the fuel to the fire of the gratification of the Senses of the unrestrained "utocrat Whose Will is law. !t is the ser#ice of that "utocrat under the guidance of those <de#otees= who are well established in the eternal ser#ice of the gratification of the Senses of *rishna <Who is the #ery )igure embodying the succulence in pleasure= that is the ob4ect to be accomplished by a 4i#a and also the means to that end. he difference between the >aishna#a 6hilosophy and all the other philosophies of the world lies in the fact that in the former both the ob4ect for accomplishment and the means leading to it are identical without any distinction. he means when purified and matured re#eal themsel#es as the %b4ect. "ccording to the 8audiya 6hilosophy the chanting of the mellifluous 7ame of 8od constitutes both the end and the means for it. his doctrine concerning the 7ame of 8od is a main feature of this 6hilosophy. ;! do not $now( how fortunate ! am to ha#e met your 'oliness and got spiritually enlightened in this manner(; said the interlocutor at the end. F00T+0T&S 91: ,h. 111.E.1E 9E: >ide !>( 3H 93: St. Aohn( 9.1&E 9H: %rigin contra celscea( !. Kxxii. 9F: >ide K!.H1 "ublished in The Harmonist 3Sree Sajjanatoshani4