Transcript of the Testimony of Leslie Haase

Date: November 6, 2013 Volume: I Case: In Re: Joplin Critical Investigation

Printed On: November 13, 2013

Holliday Reporting Service, Inc. Phone: 417-358-4078 Fax: 417-451-1114 Email:daholliday@hotmail.com Internet:

Leslie Haase

In Re:

Joplin Critical Investigation

Page 1

IN RE:

JOPLIN CRITICAL INVESTIGATION

SWORN STATEMENT OF

LESLIE HAASE

Taken on Wednesday, November 6, 2013, from 1:34 p.m. to 2:22 p.m., at the law offices of Juddson H. McPherson, LLC, 626 S. Byers, in the City of Joplin, County of Jasper, State of Missouri, before SHARON K. ROGERS, C.C.R.650, a Certified Court Reporter and a Notary Public within and for the County of Jasper, and State of Missouri.

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APPEARANCES

MR. THOMAS E. LORAINE Loraine & Associates, LLC 4075 Osage Beach Pkwy., Suite 300 Osage Beach, MO 65065

tellaw@loraineandassociates.com

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S T I P U L A T I O N

IT IS HEREBY STIPULATED that this Sworn Statement may be taken by steno-mask type recording by SHARON K. ROGERS, a Certified Court Reporter, and afterwards reduced into typewriting. It is further stipulated that the signature of the witness is hereby waived, and that said Sworn Statement of said witness shall be of the same force and effect as though said witness had read and signed Sworn Statement.

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Page 4 I N D E X Page/Line DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. LORAINE . . . 5-4

E X H I B I T S

Exhibit #A.

5-8

Advice of Rights

Exhibit #18 Spreadsheet

6-20

Note:

Exhibits in separate binder

(sic) - typed as spoken (ph.) - phonetic

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Page 5 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. LESLIE HAASE Having been first duly sworn and examined, testified as follows: DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. LORAINE: Q. Ms. Haase, we briefly met. As you know my

name is Tom Loraine and I'm doing some investigation on behalf of the City. I've

given you Exhibit #A which is an Advice of Rights form. Yes. Do you understand that? Yes. I'm going to read it for you because I say I'm going to do that. "I wish to advise you Have you read that?

that you are being questioned as part of an official investigation by the City of Joplin. You will be asked questions related and specifically directed to the performance of your official duties of fitness for office. You are entitled to all the rights and privileges guaranteed by the laws of the Constitution of the State and the Constitution of the United States, including the right not to be compelled to incriminate yourself. I further wish to advise you that

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Page 6 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. if you refuse to testify or to answer questions relating to the performance of your official duties, you will be subject to departmental charges, which could result in your dismissal from your official duties. If

you do answer, these statements may be used, against you in relation to subsequent departmental charges, but not in any subsequent criminal proceedings." Did you

understand what you were signing here on Exhibit #A as to your rights under the Garrity? I do. Okay. And you've complied with my request to

sign this and print your name on here, is that right? That's correct. And it appears on Exhibit #A? Yes. I've marked Exhibit #18. Can you tell me Go

what #18 is? I know it's a spreadsheet. from there. Tell me what it tells me.

It's a spreadsheet of the land that the JRC, which is the Joplin Redevelopment Corporation, of the properties that they've

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Page 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. A. Q. Q. Q. A. Q. bought through the end of July. I will get

you an updated one through the end of October. This represents the majority of the

property, but there are a few other properties that they've bought. Does that tell me the total amount paid is 8 million dollars? It tells you the total amount paid is 5.3 and at this point we had committed another 2.6 million dollars. yet. We had not closed on them

We've since closed on them.

That's the ones that are missing off of here? A. Yes.

So ultimately we've got 8 million dollars worth of property? Right. Have all of these gone through Wallace-Bajjali? No, they all go through the Joplin Redevelopment Corporation. Wallace-Bajjali

negotiates the purchase on behalf of the Joplin Redevelopment Corporation. They bring

the proposed to the JRC board, the JRC board entertains whether they actually want to purchase it, and then they pass a resolution

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Page 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. Q. A. Q. Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. Q. to purchase the property, and that's the process. And Wallace-Bajjali has obtained a fee in the amount of what? Their fee is 5.75 percent on each property. So what's the total of their fee so far? Would it be 5.6 percent? 5.75 percent. 5.75 percent of 8 million would be their fee? A. Yes.

So that would be something like 400 grand? Yes, however, I think we're closer to 9 or 10 million. The JRC took out another loan to buy more property so I think it's higher than that, however on one of the pieces of property Wallace-Bajjali has not gotten their fee yet because we ran out of money so they're waiting on their fee on that. So eventually they're going to get 5.76? 75. 5 and three quarters.

5.75 percent of whatever the total dollar amount of the transaction is? Yes, purchased. You're a CPA. them? Is that a reasonable fee for

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Page 9 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Well, that was the fee that the City Council approved in the Master Developer Agreement. That didn't answer my question. What my

question is, is it reasonable for them to get a fee when they buy a piece of property and then when they sell it they also get a fee? Yes, they're going to get their fee twice. They get a fee when they buy the property, and then when they actually do a project they get a fee again. Even if they buy the property back themselves they will still get a fee? Now when they just buy the property back they will not get a fee. When a project is

substantially complete they'll get the fee again. So my understanding is right now they haven't bought any property back? They've not bought any property back and they have not started a project. So they've gotten $400,000.00 worth of fee here or there plus or minus, you know, if you will for what they've done so far? Right, but they've gotten other money, also, besides this.

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Page 10 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. What other money have they gotten? In that Master Developer Agreement the City agreed to repay them pursuit costs up to a million dollars. What's that? Pursuit costs, so up to a million dollars. They had to spend 2 million to get a million back, so it was a 50 percent reimbursement. We have paid them just shy of $800,000.00 in pursuit costs reimbursement plus -Plus the $400,000.00? Plus that, plus we created the largest tiff in the State of Missouri, Tiff District as part of this process, and they have gotten some reimbursements for some costs that they had on the tiff development. How much is that? Probably shy of $200,000.00. $200,000.00. Any other fees that they've been paid? That should be it. Now go back to my question. As a CPA do you Just shy of

believe that's reasonable value? I don't know how to answer that. That was

the City Council's decision, not my decision.

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Page 11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. A. Q. Was the City Attorney involved in the development of these contracts with Wallace-Bajjali? He was, and he made it very clear at the meeting where they were entertaining the agreement, the Master Developer Agreement, he made it abundantly clear repeatedly that basically Wallace-Bajjali was getting a double fee so everybody understood what they were approving. You say the City Attorney made that? Yes, the City Attorney made that abundantly clear. Now you work not under the City Attorney? No, I work for the City Manager, Mark Rohr. Did Mark approve this fee structure? I assume so. And who negotiated that fee structure? I don't know. I wasn't part of that.

There's been some statements that one of the Councilmen, Mr. Woolston, has been involved in some of the acquiring of property. you aware of that? Yeah, I go to all the Council meetings and I know that he abstains from some things. I Are

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Page 12 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. mean obviously I know what his profession is. He's a real estate agent? He's a real estate agent. My office is

actually in charge of business licensing and he was with Pro 100 for many years, but recently he contacted our office and started the application process to get a new business license for a new company that he has started. And what is that name? I can't remember the name. Is it Four Star or Four State or something like that? No, that's a different company. I can't

remember what the name of his new company is. All right. Has he been reimbursed by the

Council for purchases of property that he's acquired for the City? Has he been reimbursed by the City? Yes. No. Has the City bought any property off of him? No. Off of Woolston? The City hasn't bought any property. The JRC

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Page 13 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. has bought property. When I say the City I meant the JRC. The JRC has bought property from Four State Homes. Many of these properties were owned

by Four State Homes. Four State Homes would have gotten a fee then? I assume so. And he's a member of Four State Homes? I don't really understand the connection with Four State Homes. I understand that Charlie I don't know

Kuehn owns Four State Homes.

where Mr. Woolston falls into all of that. But you do know he's a member of some sort of ownership or interest in Four State Homes? I don't know that. But he does work for them? He has some sort of a working relationship with Charlie Kuehn, but I don't know exactly what it is. JRC is the ultimate holder of the property? They are. And that's a wholly owned -Wholly owned subsidiary of the City. When you submit, if you have a notepad there,

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Page 14 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. A. Q. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. -Sure. When you submit, if you will, mark the remaining balance #18A for me. Okay. We'll identify that in record as Exhibit #18A and that's yet to be submitted. Is there

anything else that you're gathering for me? Yes, I'm copying all the contracts on these for you. Are the contracts, the copy of the contracts would be the same thing as this spreadsheet? It will show you who JRC purchased them from, Four State Homes or whoever they bought them from. And this does not show that? This does not show that. Okay. When you submit those contracts could

you give me a summary statement of, you know, just some kind of a spreadsheet on Four State Homes and anybody else that has a majority? Yes. That would be helpful to me. you can call that #18B. Okay. And if you can

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Page 15 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. A. A. Q. Q. I'm going to switch gears for a minute on you. There's been some inference that - and

by the way, when you leave here you're not to discuss what we talk about in here. Sure. There's been some discussion, and for lack of a better term I'm going to call it bullying, that's the word I'm going to use, and that's been used in reference to Mark Rohr. Are you

aware of any of that, and if so to what extent? I guess I understand where they get the word bullying, I guess. appropriate word. Okay. What word would you use? I don't know that's the

Certainly I think if you ask any of the department heads if we do something that necessarily the City Manager doesn't agree with he's not necessarily going to be very happy. Well, we all work for him obviously

so I would say that there is some pressure to not voice things in a different way. I don't

want to say that he just wants yes people because that's not true. I mean he and I I think he

have a very unique relationship.

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Page 16 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. Q. A. A. A. Q. Q. A. Q. and I have a different relationship than many of the other departments, and I totally know plenty, and that's fine. But, you know,

certainly since this it's a little more difficult and probably what he tends to do is just cut you out of things for a little while. Until he's pleased with you again? That's just my take. Well, this is some sort of management style, I assume? Yes. I mean --

Is it a difficult working environment with him? Not usually for me. Now this week I happened

to have done something that I've never done and I would say that yesterday I felt the backlash from that somewhat. What was the backlash? Well, I refused to sign a green sheet which is what goes along with our Council bills and I did not sign one because I did not agree with it, and I've never done that in my entire time with the City. What was it that you did not agree?

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Page 17 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. It's we're reorganizing our Public Works Department and what I didn't agree with was the placement of some new positions and the pay plan, I felt that they were out of context with the other positions, and I did not think that was right. So I did not sign

it and I went to him and I told him and he was fine. I mean what he said exactly was I I'm not

promise you I'll think about it.

saying I'll change my mind, but I promise I'll think about it. And he did and he

responded to me the next day and he said I've thought about it, I'm still going to go the direction that I'm going. He said you and I

usually agree, but this is one of the rare instances where you and I are going to agree to disagree. that. And I have no problem with

Then Monday was the Council meeting

and it became very public and then Council tabled the issue. Because of this disagreement? Yes, Brian also did not sign it. Brian? Head. And what then occurred to you?

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Page 18 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. So then yesterday I got an email from Mark that I don't think I normally would have gotten. I mean it wasn't a horrible email,

but - so we took over utility billing in January where we're generating 18,000 sewer bills a month, generally collecting 18,000 bills a month, and I hired one person to do that. There was not enough people. So it's

been, you know, people have been somewhat unhappy. So the email I got out of the blue

was our office has received two complaints in three days about not being to reach a human being in the Finance Department, and so I responded to that, but that's - and then I said I know what you're talking about. Many

times we get calls where people won't leave their phone numbers, and he responded back and said, well, I'll have say on who is the Assistant City Manager, get you the specifics. Well, then Sam sent me the

specifics and one of them was a lady that he had already addressed with me last week and I find it ironic that following Monday night you're going to bring up something you've already addressed with me.

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Page 19 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Q. So you knew if nothing else that's a vale threat that here is you're not doing your job properly and it's over an issue that's already been discussed and dismissed? Yes, that's how I felt. This is the first time ever that you've felt that with him? That, yes. You work under more pressure than you believe should be there, though, with him? I don't know. I mean -Do you supervise

Well, you supervise people. them the same way? No.

Has being exposed to his supervision, has that caused you some kind of health problems? I don't think so. You don't go to doctors over it? No, I don't do that. When we started talking you were having difficulty expressing your thoughts about this. I guess that peaks my interest because

I've heard that complaint more than once here and I want to get to the bottom of it. Well, surely you can understand we all work

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Page 20 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. Q. for him so this is not easy by any means. No, I don't think any of us are having fun here. So I was just trying to choose my words wisely. Well, would you say that he acts with a certain amount of vindictiveness then? that be a fair assessment? I would say that he could, yes. Let me push this one step further. Have you Would

seen him do similar acts of vindictiveness with other employees or department heads? Yes. And have you seen it with members of the public, also? No. How about vendors? Oh, yes. Huh? Yes. Okay. So you have seen that with people that

might sell stuff to the City? Yes, one instance. Let's talk about the one instance. you tell me about it? What can

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Page 21 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. A. Well, here's what I can tell you. So

following the tornado Mark came to me and said the City will no longer - because I'm over purchasing - so he came to me and said the City will no longer do business with Goodyear Tire. He said they did not service

my vehicle, he said I needed I think some nails out of his tires after the tornado and he said they didn't help him. And then I

kind of just let it go because I just thought he was kind of talking in the heat of the moment so I didn't really do anything, and honestly I was so busy doing everything with the tornado that it just wasn't my top priority not to mention it. that. Do what? I would never redirect our business. As the I would never do

Finance Director I would never do that. As a matter of self interest? Right. So how did he redirect that? So I just kind of let it go in one ear and out the other and didn't give it another thought until later we were actually looking

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Page 22 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. at the garage for other reasons and I saw the Firestone order, we were using Firestone for all the police tires instead of Goodyear. were actually doing a internal audit on the garage and I was going over that audit with Mark and I said, and I had really forgotten about the Goodyear thing because like I said really just in one ear and out the other because just heat of the moment kind of comment is what I thought. Well, he said We

they changed from Goodyear because of me, and then it all came back to me and I'm like, oh, yeah. So the Police Department changed tires from Goodyear to Firestone? Well, the garage did because the City Manager told Tim Nyander, who used to be our fleet, used to be our Public Works Operations Manager over the Fleet Department, and he must have told Tim to switch. I mean he told

me, he said they changed because of me. Because of the incident of not getting all the service he thought he ought to get from some Goodyear dealer? Yes.

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Page 23 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Who was the Goodyear dealer? It's Goodyear on 20th and Range Line. Have you seen that kind of conduct before? Never. Did you report that conduct to anybody? I think I told Brian. You told Brian? I think so at some point. Understand during

the tornado there was so much going on. What other department heads should I talk with concerning Mr. Rohr's vindictiveness or maybe what we call difficult, making it difficult to deal with him on a department head? Who else would feel that way?

I would talk to two of them. Who are they? Dan Pekarek, the Health Director. Dan who? Dan Pekarek, P-E-K-A-R-E-K. Health Director? Uh-huh. And who else? Chris Cotten, the Parts Director. You've

already talked to the Police Chief, right? Yes, I have. Do you think I should talk to

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Page 24 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. the Police Chief about that incident, that matter? I just know the Police Chief has sat across from me and described Mark Rohr, so -What does he say? I found it a very interesting description. What did the Police Chief say about Mark Rohr? I can't remember everything he said, but he started off by saying he respects Mark and Mark has done a lot of good and he does let us do our jobs. latitude. He gives us a lot of

I mean he started off in that way

and then he said, but, you know, he also has some faults. I believe he did say was, I

think his word was he's a bully. What has Chris Cotten told you that would lead you to believe that I should talk with him? It's not what Chris has told me, it's what I saw. What did you see? I seen the City Manager be very angry with Chris. Angry in what fashion?

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Page 25 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Yelling at him. Well, you know, what does yelling mean? I mean screaming. Screaming? Uh-huh. In front of other people? I was in the room. Anybody else? No. What about Pekarek? Before the tornado we had the homeless initiative that Dan was in charge of and I know that was particularly difficult. I know

the City Manager had a very certain vision in his head and he put Dan in charge of this task force, and I'm not sure the vision always matched the task force and so Dan, he may have some insight. Did Dan get yelled at, too? I don't know. Do you know of any incident involving the Police Department with some investigation on some kind of home problem with Mark? I don't know. Have you ever heard of that?

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Page 26 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. A. Q. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Oh, I've heard of it plenty. What have you heard? I heard that Mark, you know, abuses his wife and that the Police Department goes and nothing ever happens and nothing ever comes out. That's what I heard. It doesn't mean

it's right, that's just what I've heard. Do you know his wife? Uh-huh. Have you ever met her? Uh-huh. Have you ever heard her complain about him? No. I mean I don't like really --

You don't socialize with them? No. And you would not, I assume? No. There is such a word as hostile work environment. Sure. I mean is this kind of where we're on the verge of talking about? talking about? I don't know. it. Here is how I would describe Is this what we're Have you ever heard that term?

I would describe Mark not as a bully,

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Page 27 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. but the word that I would use would be he likes to be in control of everything. I

don't know that that's any different than any other City Manager in the world. He has a

vision and he wants to see that vision happen, but he likes to control things and that's the word that I would use. His control is to the extent that it certainly has made it unpleasant for you on more than one occasion? A few occasions. Difficult for you to talk to me about this? Well, it is difficult because I like Mark and like I said Mark and I have a good relationship and I like working for Mark. lets me do my job for the most part. He

So, you

know, - and I'm not here to get Mark in trouble. I think the record will reflect I asked you a question. You certainly didn't volunteer anything. too long. You know, maybe Mark has been here Do you think? I've been with the

I definitely think that.

City 16 years. I worked under Steve Lewis, our former City Manager. And when all this

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Page 28 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. happened my only response every time has been City Managers really have a life cycle of about 7 years. Steve Lewis said that when he

was here and I didn't really get it, but I do get it now. I understand. was miserable. I've been here long enough where Steve Lewis' last year here He had a miserable He couldn't

relationship with the Council. get anything done.

And it wasn't any fault

of his own, it's just like it's time to move on. And I can't put my finger on why, it

just is, and I think it's - but I also don't want Mark to go either because, you know, he's done good things for the City and like I said he and I have a good relationship, but, yeah, for whatever reasons City Managers, they just have a life cycle and he's been here, you know, even longer than Steve Lewis was here. miserable. But Steve Lewis' last year was And not for anything that you He didn't

could even point your finger at.

do anything, Council didn't do anything, they just - it's kind of like the seven year itch. Okay. I would remind you I don't want you

talking about what we've talked about here.

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Page 29 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. At some point this will result in some kind of report and there will probably be some sort of disclosure of this stuff, so right now is not the time to talk about this, okay? Don't worry. All right. In regards to Woolston has there

been anything from a financial viewpoint that you have viewed during this process of purchasing property for the JRC, has there been any kind of as a CPA that you would say, well, you know, if I was an outside auditor it would kind of shock me a little bit or I might make a comment about that? Is there

anything like that with the Woolston matters? Not that I could see. Have you had any dealings with Councilmen Scearce? Oh, yeah. And what comments would be appropriate for you to make in that regard, if any? About? I mean --

Do you have any first-hand knowledge about any of his dealings? On the whole renting the building and all of that?

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Page 30 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 (SWORN STATEMENT CONCLUDED) A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. Q. Yes, all that. No. Do you know of any illicit contacts or criminal dealings that he's been involved with? No. Do you have any comments as an employee of the City towards the City Council that would be pertinent to any of these issues other than maybe it's time for Mark to move on? Not that I know of. Okay. All right, thank you. I appreciate

your assistance and these are confidential matters at this stage. at stuff. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. I'll get you those. We're still looking

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Joplin Critical Investigation

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REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE

STATE OF MISSOURI ss. COUNTY OF JASPER I, SHARON K. ROGERS, Certified Court Reporter in the State of Missouri, do certify that pursuant to the foregoing Stipulation the witness came before me on the 6th day of November, 2013, was duly sworn by me, and was examined. That examination was then taken by me by

steno-mask recording and afterwards transcribed; said Sworn Statement is subscribed by the witness as hereinbefore set out on the day in that behalf aforesaid and is herewith returned. I further certify that I am not counsel, attorney, or relative of either party, or clerk, or stenographer of either party or of the attorney of either party, or otherwise interested in the event of this suit.

________________________ SHARON K. ROGERS, CCR-650

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