360 BC

LAWS
by Plato
translated by Benjamin Jowett
BOOK I
PESO!S O" #$E %IALO&'E( An A#$E!IA! S#A!&E) CLEI!IAS* a
Cretan) +E&ILL'S* a La,edaemonian
At-enian Stran.er/ #ell me* Stran.ers* is a &od or some man s011osed
to be t-e a0t-or o2 yo0r laws3
Cleinias/ A &od* Stran.er) in 4ery tr0t- a* &od( amon. 0s Cretans -e
is said to -a4e been 5e0s* b0t in La,edaemon* w-en,e o0r 2riend -ere
,omes* I belie4e t-ey wo0ld say t-at A1ollo is t-eir law.i4er( wo0ld
t-ey not* +e.ill0s3
+e.ill0s/ Certainly/
At-/ And do yo0* Cleinias* belie4e* as $omer tells* t-at e4ery nint-
year +inos went to ,on4erse wit- -is Olym1ian sire* and was ins1ired
by -im to ma6e laws 2or yo0r ,ities3
Cle/ 7es* t-at is o0r tradition) and t-ere was -adamant-0s* a
brot-er o2 -is* wit- w-ose name yo0 are 2amiliar) -e is re10ted to
-a4e been t-e j0stest o2 men* and we Cretans are o2 o1inion t-at -e
earned t-is re10tation 2rom -is ri.-teo0s administration o2 j0sti,e
w-en -e was ali4e/
At-/ 7es* and a noble re10tation it was* wort-y o2 a son o2 5e0s/ As
yo0 and +e.ill0s -a4e been trained in t-ese instit0tions* I dare say
t-at yo0 will not be 0nwillin. to .i4e an a,,o0nt o2 yo0r .o4ernment
and laws) on o0r way we ,an 1ass t-e time 1leasantly in abo0t t-em*
2or I am told t-at t-e distan,e 2rom Cnos0s to t-e ,a4e and tem1le
o2 5e0s is ,onsiderable) and do0btless t-ere are s-ady 1la,es 0nder
t-e lo2ty trees* w-i,- will 1rote,t 0s 2rom t-is s,or,-in. s0n/
Bein. no lon.er yo0n.* we may o2ten sto1 to rest beneat- t-em* and .et
o4er t-e w-ole jo0rney wit-o0t di22i,0lty* be.0ilin. t-e time by
,on4ersation/
Cle/ 7es* Stran.er* and i2 we 1ro,eed onward we s-all ,ome to .ro4es
o2 ,y1resses* w-i,- are o2 rare -ei.-t and bea0ty* and t-ere are .reen
meadows* in w-i,- we may re1ose and ,on4erse/
At-/ 8ery .ood/
Cle/ 8ery .ood* indeed) and still better w-en we see t-em) let 0s
mo4e on ,-eerily/
At-/ I am willin.9And 2irst* I want to 6now w-y t-e law -as ordained
t-at yo0 s-all -a4e ,ommon meals and .ymnasti, e:er,ises* and wear
arms/
Cle/ I t-in6* Stran.er* t-at t-e aim o2 o0r instit0tions is easily
intelli.ible to any one/ Loo6 at t-e ,-ara,ter o2 o0r ,o0ntry( Crete
is not li6e #-essaly* a lar.e 1lain) and 2or t-is reason t-ey -a4e
-orsemen in #-essaly* and we -a4e r0nners9t-e ine;0ality o2 t-e .ro0nd
in o0r ,o0ntry is more ada1ted to lo,omotion on 2oot) b0t t-en* i2 yo0
-a4e r0nners yo0 m0st -a4e li.-t arms9no one ,an ,arry a -ea4y
wei.-t w-en r0nnin.* and bows and arrows are ,on4enient be,a0se t-ey
are li.-t/ !ow all t-ese re.0lations -a4e been made wit- a 4iew to
war* and t-e le.islator a11ears to me to -a4e loo6ed to t-is in all
-is arran.ements(9t-e ,ommon meals* i2 I am not mista6en* were
instit0ted by -im 2or a similar reason* be,a0se -e saw t-at w-ile t-ey
are in t-e 2ield t-e ,iti<ens are by t-e nat0re o2 t-e ,ase
,om1elled to ta6e t-eir meals to.et-er 2or t-e sa6e o2 m0t0al
1rote,tion/ $e seems to me to -a4e t-o0.-t t-e world 2oolis- in not
0nderstandin. t-at all are always at war wit- one anot-er) and i2 in
war t-ere o0.-t to be ,ommon meals and ,ertain 1ersons re.0larly
a11ointed 0nder ot-ers to 1rote,t an army* t-ey s-o0ld be ,ontin0ed in
1ea,e/ "or w-at men in .eneral term 1ea,e wo0ld be said by -im to be
only a name) in reality e4ery ,ity is in a nat0ral state o2 war wit-
e4ery ot-er* not indeed 1ro,laimed by -eralds* b0t e4erlastin./ And i2
yo0 loo6 ,losely* yo0 will 2ind t-at t-is was t-e intention o2 t-e
Cretan le.islator) all instit0tions* 1ri4ate as well as 10bli,* were
arran.ed by -im wit- a 4iew to war) in .i4in. t-em -e was 0nder t-e
im1ression t-at no 1ossessions or instit0tions are o2 any 4al0e to -im
w-o is de2eated in battle) 2or all t-e .ood t-in.s o2 t-e ,on;0ered
1ass into t-e -ands o2 t-e ,on;0erors/
At-/ 7o0 a11ear to me* Stran.er* to -a4e been t-oro0.-ly trained
in t-e Cretan instit0tions* and to be well in2ormed abo0t t-em) will
yo0 tell me a little more e:1li,itly w-at is t-e 1rin,i1le o2
.o4ernment w-i,- yo0 wo0ld lay down3 7o0 seem to ima.ine t-at a well
.o4erned state o0.-t to be so ordered as to ,on;0er all ot-er states
in war( am I ri.-t in s011osin. t-is to be yo0r meanin.3
Cle/ Certainly) and o0r La,edaemonian 2riend* i2 I am not
mista6en* will a.ree wit- me/
+e./ W-y* my .ood 2riend* -ow ,o0ld any La,edaemonian say anyt-in.
else3
At-/ And is w-at yo0 say a11li,able only to states* or also to
4illa.es3
Cle/ #o bot- ali6e/
At-/ #-e ,ase is t-e same3
Cle/ 7es/
At-/ And in t-e 4illa.e will t-ere be t-e same war o2 2amily a.ainst
2amily* and o2 indi4id0al a.ainst indi4id0al3
Cle/ #-e same/
At-/ And s-o0ld ea,- man ,on,ei4e -imsel2 to be -is own
enemy(9w-at s-all we say3
Cle/ O At-enian Stran.er9in-abitant o2 Atti,a I will not ,all yo0*
2or yo0 seem to deser4e rat-er to be named a2ter t-e .oddess
-ersel2* be,a0se yo0 .o ba,6 to 2irst 1rin,i1les yo0 -a4e t-rown a
li.-t 01on t-e ar.0ment* and will now be better able to 0nderstand
w-at I was j0st sayin.9t-at all men are 10bli,ly one anot-er=s
enemies* and ea,- man 1ri4ately -is own/
>At-/ +y .ood sir* w-at do yo0 mean3?99
Cle///// +oreo4er* t-ere is a 4i,tory and de2eat9t-e 2irst and
best o2 4i,tories* t-e lowest and worst o2 de2eats9w-i,- ea,- man
.ains or s0stains at t-e -ands* not o2 anot-er* b0t o2 -imsel2) t-is
s-ows t-at t-ere is a war a.ainst o0rsel4es .oin. on wit-in e4ery
one o2 0s/
At-/ Let 0s now re4erse t-e order o2 t-e ar.0ment( Seein. t-at e4ery
indi4id0al is eit-er -is own s01erior or -is own in2erior* may we
say t-at t-ere is t-e same 1rin,i1le in t-e -o0se* t-e 4illa.e* and
t-e state3
Cle/ 7o0 mean t-at in ea,- o2 t-em t-ere is a 1rin,i1le o2
s01eriority or in2eriority to sel23
At-/ 7es/
Cle/ 7o0 are ;0ite ri.-t in as6in. t-e ;0estion* 2or t-ere ,ertainly
is s0,- a 1rin,i1le* and abo4e all in states) and t-e state in w-i,-
t-e better ,iti<ens win a 4i,tory o4er t-e mob and o4er t-e in2erior
,lasses may be tr0ly said to be better t-an itsel2* and may be
j0stly 1raised* w-ere s0,- a 4i,tory is .ained* or ,ens0red in t-e
o11osite ,ase/
At-/ W-et-er t-e better is e4er really ,on;0ered by t-e worse* is a
;0estion w-i,- re;0ires more dis,0ssion* and may be t-ere2ore le2t 2or
t-e 1resent/ B0t I now ;0ite 0nderstand yo0r meanin. w-en yo0 say t-at
,iti<ens w-o are o2 t-e same ra,e and li4e in t-e same ,ities may
0nj0stly ,ons1ire* and -a4in. t-e s01eriority in n0mbers may
o4er,ome and ensla4e t-e 2ew j0st) and w-en t-ey 1re4ail* t-e state
may be tr0ly ,alled its own in2erior and t-ere2ore bad) and w-en
t-ey are de2eated* its own s01erior and t-ere2ore .ood/
Cle/ 7o0r remar6* Stran.er* is a 1arado:* and yet we ,annot 1ossibly
deny it/
At-/ $ere is anot-er ,ase 2or ,onsideration)9in a 2amily t-ere may
be se4eral brot-ers* w-o are t-e o22s1rin. o2 a sin.le 1air) 4ery
1ossibly t-e majority o2 t-em may be 0nj0st* and t-e j0st may be in
a minority/
Cle/ 8ery 1ossibly/
At-/ And yo0 and I o0.-t not to raise a ;0estion o2 words as to
w-et-er t-is 2amily and -o0se-old are ri.-tly said to be s01erior w-en
t-ey ,on;0er* and in2erior w-en t-ey are ,on;0ered) 2or we are not now
,onsiderin. w-at may or may not be t-e 1ro1er or ,0stomary way o2
s1ea6in.* b0t we are ,onsiderin. t-e nat0ral 1rin,i1les o2 ri.-t and
wron. in laws/
Cle/ W-at yo0 say* Stran.er* is most tr0e/
+e./ @0ite e:,ellent* in my o1inion* as 2ar as we -a4e .one/
At-/ A.ain) mi.-t t-ere not be a j0d.e o4er t-ese bret-ren* o2
w-om we were s1ea6in.3
Cle/ Certainly/
At-/ !ow* w-i,- wo0ld be t-e better j0d.e9one w-o destroyed t-e
bad and a11ointed t-e .ood to .o4ern t-emsel4es) or one w-o* w-ile
allowin. t-e .ood to .o4ern* let t-e bad li4e* and made t-em
4ol0ntarily s0bmit3 Or t-ird* I s011ose* in t-e s,ale o2 e:,ellen,e
mi.-t be 1la,ed a j0d.e* w-o* 2indin. t-e 2amily distra,ted* not
only did not destroy any one* b0t re,on,iled t-em to one anot-er 2or
e4er a2ter* and .a4e t-em laws w-i,- t-ey m0t0ally obser4ed* and was
able to 6ee1 t-em 2riends/
Cle/ #-e last wo0ld be by 2ar t-e best sort o2 j0d.e and le.islator/
At-/ And yet t-e aim o2 all t-e laws w-i,- -e .a4e wo0ld be t-e
re4erse o2 war/
Cle/ 8ery tr0e/
At-/ And will -e w-o ,onstit0tes t-e state and orders t-e li2e o2
man -a4e in 4iew e:ternal war* or t-at 6ind o2 intestine war ,alled
,i4il* w-i,- no one* i2 -e ,o0ld 1re4ent* wo0ld li6e to -a4e o,,0rrin.
in -is own state) and w-en o,,0rrin.* e4ery one wo0ld wis- to be
;0it o2 as soon as 1ossible3
Cle/ $e wo0ld -a4e t-e latter ,-ie2ly in 4iew/
At-/ And wo0ld -e 1re2er t-at t-is ,i4il war s-o0ld be terminated by
t-e destr0,tion o2 one o2 t-e 1arties* and by t-e 4i,tory o2 t-e
ot-er* or t-at 1ea,e and 2riends-i1 s-o0ld be re9establis-ed* and
t-at* bein. re,on,iled* t-ey s-o0ld .i4e t-eir attention to 2orei.n
enemies3
Cle/ E4ery one wo0ld desire t-e latter in t-e ,ase o2 -is own state/
At-/ And wo0ld not t-at also be t-e desire o2 t-e le.islator3
Cle/ Certainly/
At-/ And wo0ld not e4ery one always ma6e laws 2or t-e sa6e o2 t-e
best3
Cle/ #o be s0re/
At-/ B0t war* w-et-er e:ternal or ,i4il* is not t-e best* and t-e
need o2 eit-er is to be de1re,ated) b0t 1ea,e wit- one anot-er* and
.ood will* are best/ !or is t-e 4i,tory o2 t-e state o4er itsel2 to be
re.arded as a really .ood t-in.* b0t as a ne,essity) a man mi.-t as
well say t-at t-e body was in t-e best state w-en si,6 and 10r.ed by
medi,ine* 2or.ettin. t-at t-ere is also a state o2 t-e body w-i,-
needs no 10r.e/ And in li6e manner no one ,an be a tr0e statesman*
w-et-er -e aims at t-e -a11iness o2 t-e indi4id0al or state* w-o loo6s
only* or 2irst o2 all* to e:ternal war2are) nor will -e e4er be a
so0nd le.islator w-o orders 1ea,e 2or t-e sa6e o2 war* and not war 2or
t-e sa6e o2 1ea,e/
Cle/ I s011ose t-at t-ere is tr0t-* Stran.er* in t-at remar6 o2
yo0rs) and yet I am .reatly mista6en i2 war is not t-e entire aim
and obje,t o2 o0r own instit0tions* and also o2 t-e La,edaemonian/
At-/ I dare say) b0t t-ere is no reason w-y we s-o0ld r0dely ;0arrel
wit- one anot-er abo0t yo0r le.islators* instead o2 .ently ;0estionin.
t-em* seein. t-at bot- we and t-ey are e;0ally in earnest/ Please
2ollow me and t-e ar.0ment ,losely(9And 2irst I will 10t 2orward
#yrtae0s* an At-enian by birt-* b0t also a S1artan ,iti<en* w-o o2 all
men was most ea.er abo0t war( Well* -e says* AI sin. not* I ,are
not* abo0t any man* e4en i2 -e were t-e ri,-est o2 men* and
1ossessed e4ery .ood >and t-en -e .i4es a w-ole list o2 t-em?* i2 -e
be not at all times a bra4e warrior/A I ima.ine t-at yo0* too* m0st
-a4e -eard -is 1oems) o0r La,edaemonian 2riend -as 1robably -eard more
t-an eno0.- o2 t-em/
+e./ 8ery tr0e/
Cle/ And t-ey -a4e 2o0nd t-eir way 2rom La,edaemon to Crete/
At-/ Come now and let 0s all join in as6in. t-is ;0estion o2
#yrtae0s( O most di4ine 1oet* we will say to -im* t-e e:,ellent 1raise
w-i,- yo0 -a4e bestowed on t-ose w-o e:,el in war s022i,iently
1ro4es t-at yo0 are wise and .ood* and I and +e.ill0s and Cleinias
o2 Cnos0s do* as I belie4e* entirely a.ree wit- yo0/ B0t we s-o0ld
li6e to be ;0ite s0re t-at we are s1ea6in. o2 t-e same men) tell 0s*
t-en* do yo0 a.ree wit- 0s in t-in6in. t-at t-ere are two 6inds o2
war) or w-at wo0ld yo0 say3 A 2ar in2erior man to #yrtae0s wo0ld
-a4e no di22i,0lty in re1lyin. ;0ite tr0ly* t-at war is o2 two 6inds
one w-i,- is 0ni4ersally ,alled ,i4il war* and is as we were j0st
now sayin.* o2 all wars t-e worst) t-e ot-er* as we s-o0ld all
admit* in w-i,- we 2all o0t wit- ot-er nations w-o are o2 a
di22erent ra,e* is a 2ar milder 2orm o2 war2are/
Cle/ Certainly* 2ar milder/
At-/ Well* now* w-en yo0 1raise and blame war in t-is -i.-92lown
strain* w-om are yo0 1raisin. or blamin.* and to w-i,- 6ind o2 war are
yo0 re2errin.3 I s011ose t-at yo0 m0st mean 2orei.n war* i2 I am to
j0d.e 2rom e:1ressions o2 yo0rs in w-i,- yo0 say t-at yo0 abominate
t-ose
W-o re20se to loo6 01on 2ields o2 blood* and will not draw near
and stri6e at t-eir enemies/
And we s-all nat0rally .o on to say to -im97o0* #yrtae0s* as it seems*
1raise t-ose w-o distin.0is- t-emsel4es in e:ternal and 2orei.n war)
and -e m0st admit t-is/
Cle/ E4idently/
At-/ #-ey are .ood) b0t we say t-at t-ere are still better men w-ose
4irt0e is dis1layed in t-e .reatest o2 all battles/ And we too -a4e
a 1oet w-om we s0mmon as a witness* #-eo.nis* ,iti<en o2 +e.ara in
Si,ily(
Cyrn0s* -e w-o is 2ait-20l in a ,i4il broil is wort- -is wei.-t in
.old and sil4er/
And s0,- an one is 2ar better* as we a22irm* t-an t-e ot-er in a
more di22i,0lt 6ind o2 war* m0,- in t-e same de.ree as j0sti,e and
tem1eran,e and wisdom* w-en 0nited wit- ,o0ra.e* are better t-an
,o0ra.e only) 2or a man ,annot be 2ait-20l and .ood in ,i4il stri2e
wit-o0t -a4in. all 4irt0e/ B0t in t-e war o2 w-i,- #yrtae0s s1ea6s*
many a mer,enary soldier will ta6e -is stand and be ready to die at
-is 1ost* and yet t-ey are .enerally and almost wit-o0t e:,e1tion
insolent* 0nj0st* 4iolent men* and t-e most senseless o2 -0man bein.s/
7o0 will as6 w-at t-e ,on,l0sion is* and w-at I am see6in. to 1ro4e( I
maintain t-at t-e di4ine le.islator o2 Crete* li6e any ot-er w-o is
wort-y o2 ,onsideration* will always and abo4e all t-in.s in ma6in.
laws -a4e re.ard to t-e .reatest 4irt0e) w-i,-* a,,ordin. to #-eo.nis*
is loyalty in t-e -o0r o2 dan.er* and may be tr0ly ,alled 1er2e,t
j0sti,e/ W-ereas* t-at 4irt0e w-i,- #yrtae0s -i.-ly 1raises is well
eno0.-* and was 1raised by t-e 1oet at t-e ri.-t time* yet in 1la,e
and di.nity may be said to be only 2o0rt- rate/
Cle/ Stran.er* we are de.radin. o0r ins1ired law.i4er to a ran6
w-i,- is 2ar beneat- -im/
At-/ !ay* I t-in6 t-at we de.rade not -im b0t o0rsel4es* i2 we
ima.ine t-at Ly,0r.0s and +inos laid down laws bot- in La,edaemon
and Crete mainly wit- a 4iew to war/
Cle/ W-at o0.-t we to say t-en3
At-/ W-at tr0t- and w-at j0sti,e re;0ire o2 0s* i2 I am not
mista6en* w-en s1ea6in. in be-al2 o2 di4ine e:,ellen,e)9at t-e
le.islator w-en ma6in. -is laws -ad in 4iew not a 1art only* and
t-is t-e lowest 1art o2 4irt0e* b0t all 4irt0e* and t-at -e de4ised
,lasses o2 laws answerin. to t-e 6inds o2 4irt0e) not in t-e way in
w-i,- modern in4entors o2 laws ma6e t-e ,lasses* 2or t-ey only
in4esti.ate and o22er laws w-ene4er a want is 2elt* and one man -as
a ,lass o2 laws abo0t allotments and -eiresses* anot-er abo0t
assa0lts) ot-ers abo0t ten t-o0sand ot-er s0,- matters/ B0t we
maintain t-at t-e ri.-t way o2 e:aminin. into laws is to 1ro,eed as we
-a4e now done* and I admired t-e s1irit o2 yo0r e:1osition) 2or yo0
were ;0ite ri.-t in be.innin. wit- 4irt0e* and sayin. t-at t-is was
t-e aim o2 t-e .i4er o2 t-e law* b0t I t-o0.-t t-at yo0 went wron.
w-en yo0 added t-at all -is le.islation -ad a 4iew only to a 1art* and
t-e least 1art o2 4irt0e* and t-is ,alled 2ort- my s0bse;0ent remar6s/
Will yo0 allow me t-en to e:1lain -ow I s-o0ld -a4e li6ed to -a4e
-eard yo0 e:1o0nd t-e matter3
Cle/ By all means/
At-/ 7o0 o0.-t to -a4e said* Stran.er9#-e Cretan laws are wit-
reason 2amo0s amon. t-e $ellenes) 2or t-ey 20l2il t-e obje,t o2
laws* w-i,- is to ma6e t-ose w-o 0se t-em -a11y) and t-ey ,on2er e4ery
sort o2 .ood/ !ow .oods are o2 two 6inds( t-ere are -0man and t-ere
are di4ine .oods* and t-e -0man -an. 01on t-e di4ine) and t-e state
w-i,- attains t-e .reater* at t-e same time a,;0ires t-e less* or* not
-a4in. t-e .reater* -as neit-er/ O2 t-e lesser .oods t-e 2irst is
-ealt-* t-e se,ond bea0ty* t-e t-ird stren.t-* in,l0din. swi2tness
in r0nnin. and bodily a.ility .enerally* and t-e 2o0rt- is wealt-* not
t-e blind .od BPl0toC* b0t one w-o is 6een o2 si.-t* i2 only -e -as
wisdom 2or -is ,om1anion/ "or wisdom is ,-ie2 and leader o2 t-e di4ine
dass o2 .oods* and ne:t 2ollows tem1eran,e) and 2rom t-e 0nion o2
t-ese two wit- ,o0ra.e s1rin.s j0sti,e* and 2o0rt- in t-e s,ale o2
4irt0e is ,o0ra.e/ All t-ese nat0rally ta6e 1re,eden,e o2 t-e ot-er
.oods* and t-is is t-e order in w-i,- t-e le.islator m0st 1la,e
t-em* and a2ter t-em -e will enjoin t-e rest o2 -is ordinan,es on
t-e ,iti<ens wit- a 4iew to t-ese* t-e -0man loo6in. to t-e di4ine*
and t-e di4ine loo6in. to t-eir leader mind/ Some o2 -is ordinan,es
will relate to ,ontra,ts o2 marria.e w-i,- t-ey ma6e one wit- anot-er*
and t-en to t-e 1ro,reation and ed0,ation o2 ,-ildren* bot- male and
2emale) t-e d0ty o2 t-e law.i4er will be to ta6e ,-ar.e o2 -is
,iti<ens* in yo0t- and a.e* and at e4ery time o2 li2e* and to .i4e
t-em 10nis-ments and rewards) and in re2eren,e to all t-eir
inter,o0rse wit- one anot-er* -e o0.-t to ,onsider t-eir 1ains and
1leas0res and desires* and t-e 4e-emen,e o2 all t-eir 1assions) -e
s-o0ld 6ee1 a wat,- o4er t-em* and blame and 1raise t-em ri.-tly by
t-e mo0t- o2 t-e laws t-emsel4es/ Also wit- re.ard to an.er and
terror* and t-e ot-er 1ert0rbations o2 t-e so0l* w-i,- arise o0t o2
mis2ort0ne* and t-e deli4eran,es 2rom t-em w-i,- 1ros1erity brin.s*
and t-e e:1erien,es w-i,- ,ome to men in diseases* or in war* or
1o4erty* or t-e o11osite o2 t-ese) in all t-ese states -e s-o0ld
determine and tea,- w-at is t-e .ood and e4il o2 t-e ,ondition o2
ea,-/ In t-e ne:t 1la,e* t-e le.islator -as to be ,are20l -ow t-e
,iti<ens ma6e t-eir money and in w-at way t-ey s1end it* and to -a4e
an eye to t-eir m0t0al ,ontra,ts and dissol0tions o2 ,ontra,ts*
w-et-er 4ol0ntary or in4ol0ntary( -e s-o0ld see -ow t-ey order all
t-is* and ,onsider w-ere j0sti,e as well as inj0sti,e is 2o0nd or is
wantin. in t-eir se4eral dealin.s wit- one anot-er) and -ono0r t-ose
w-o obey t-e law* and im1ose 2i:ed 1enalties on t-ose w-o disobey*
0ntil t-e ro0nd o2 ,i4il li2e is ended* and t-e time -as ,ome 2or
t-e ,onsideration o2 t-e 1ro1er 20neral rites and -ono0rs o2 t-e dead/
And t-e law.i4er re4iewin. -is wor6* will a11oint .0ardians to 1reside
o4er t-ese t-in.s9some w-o wal6 by intelli.en,e* ot-ers by tr0e
o1inion only* and t-en mind will bind to.et-er all -is ordinan,es
and s-ow t-em to be in -armony wit- tem1eran,e and j0sti,e* and not
wit- wealt- or ambition/ #-is is t-e s1irit* Stran.er* in w-i,- I
was and am desiro0s t-at yo0 s-o0ld 10rs0e t-e s0bje,t/ And I want
to 6now t-e nat0re o2 all t-ese t-in.s* and -ow t-ey are arran.ed in
t-e laws o2 5e0s* as t-ey are termed* and in t-ose o2 t-e Pyt-ian
A1ollo* w-i,- +inos and Ly,0r.0s .a4e) and -ow t-e order o2 t-em is
dis,o4ered to -is eyes* w-o -as e:1erien,e in laws .ained eit-er by
st0dy or -abit* alt-o0.- t-ey are 2ar 2rom bein. sel29e4ident to t-e
rest o2 man6ind li6e o0rsel4es/
Cle/ $ow s-all we 1ro,eed* Stran.er3
At-/ I t-in6 t-at we m0st be.in a.ain as be2ore* and 2irst
,onsider t-e -abit o2 ,o0ra.e) and t-en we will .o on and dis,0ss
anot-er and t-en anot-er 2orm o2 4irt0e* i2 yo0 1lease/ In t-is way we
s-all -a4e a model o2 t-e w-ole) and wit- t-ese and similar dis,o0rses
we will be.0ile t-e way/ And w-en we -a4e .one t-ro0.- all t-e
4irt0es* we will s-ow* by t-e .ra,e o2 &od* t-at t-e instit0tions o2
w-i,- I was s1ea6in. loo6 to 4irt0e/
+e./ 8ery .ood) and s011ose t-at yo0 2irst ,riti,i<e t-is 1raiser o2
5e0s and t-e laws o2 Crete/
At-/ I will try to ,riti,i<e yo0 and mysel2* as well as -im* 2or t-e
ar.0ment is a ,ommon ,on,ern/ #ell me9were not 2irst t-e syssitia* and
se,ondly t-e .ymnasia* in4ented by yo0r le.islator wit- a 4iew to war3
+e./ 7es/
At-/ And w-at ,omes t-ird* and w-at 2o0rt-3 "or t-at* I t-in6* is
t-e sort o2 en0meration w-i,- o0.-t to be made o2 t-e remainin.
1arts o2 4irt0e* no matter w-et-er yo0 ,all t-em 1arts or w-at t-eir
name is* 1ro4ided t-e meanin. is ,lear/
+e./ #-en I* or any ot-er La,edaemonian* wo0ld re1ly t-at -0ntin. is
t-ird in order/
At-/ Let 0s see i2 we ,an dis,o4er w-at ,omes 2o0rt- and 2i2t-/
+e./ I t-in6 t-at I ,an .et as 2ar as t-e 2o0t- -ead* w-i,- is t-e
2re;0ent end0ran,e o2 1ain* e:-ibited amon. 0s S1artans in ,ertain
-and9to9-and 2i.-ts) also in stealin. wit- t-e 1ros1e,t o2 .ettin. a
.ood beatin.) t-ere is* too* t-e so9,alled Cry1teia* or se,ret
ser4i,e* in w-i,- wonder20l end0ran,e is s-own9o0r 1eo1le wander
o4er t-e w-ole ,o0ntry by day and by ni.-t* and e4en in winter -a4e
not a s-oe to t-eir 2oot* and are wit-o0t beds to lie 01on* and -a4e
to attend 01on t-emsel4es/ +ar4ello0s* too* is t-e end0ran,e w-i,- o0r
,iti<ens s-ow in t-eir na6ed e:er,ises* ,ontendin. a.ainst t-e 4iolent
s0mmer -eat) and t-ere are many similar 1ra,ti,es* to s1ea6 o2 w-i,-
in detail wo0ld be endless/
At-/ E:,ellent* O La,edaemonian Stran.er/ B0t -ow o0.-t we to de2ine
,o0ra.e3 Is it to be re.arded only as a ,ombat a.ainst 2ears and
1ains* or also a.ainst desires and 1leas0res* and a.ainst
2latteries) w-i,- e:er,ise s0,- a tremendo0s 1ower* t-at t-ey ma6e t-e
-earts e4en o2 res1e,table ,iti<ens to melt li6e wa:3
+e./ I s-o0ld say t-e latter/
At-/ In w-at 1re,eded* as yo0 will remember* o0r Cnosian 2riend
was s1ea6in. o2 a man or a ,ity bein. in2erior to t-emsel4es(9Were yo0
not* Cleinias3
Cle/ I was/
At-/ !ow* w-i,- is in t-e tr0est sense in2erior* t-e man w-o is
o4er,ome by 1leas0re or by 1ain3
Cle/ I s-o0ld say t-e man w-o is o4er,ome by 1leas0re) 2or all men
deem -im to be in2erior in a more dis.ra,e20l sense* t-an t-e ot-er
w-o is o4er,ome by 1ain/
At-/ B0t s0rely t-e law.i4ers o2 Crete and La,edaemon -a4e not
le.islated 2or a ,o0ra.e w-i,- is lame o2 one le.* able only to meet
atta,6s w-i,- ,ome 2rom t-e le2t* b0t im1otent a.ainst t-e insidio0s
2latteries w-i,- ,ome 2rom t-e ri.-t3
Cle/ Able to meet bot-* I s-o0ld say/
At-/ #-en let me on,e more as6* w-at instit0tions -a4e yo0 in eit-er
o2 yo0r states w-i,- .i4e a taste o2 1leas0res* and do not a4oid
t-em any more t-an t-ey a4oid 1ains) b0t w-i,- set a 1erson in t-e
midst o2 t-em* and ,om1el or ind0,e -im by t-e 1ros1e,t o2 reward to
.et t-e better o2 t-em3 W-ere is an ordinan,e abo0t 1leas0re similar
to t-at abo0t 1ain to be 2o0nd in yo0r laws3 #ell me w-at t-ere is
o2 t-is nat0re amon. yo0(9W-at is t-ere w-i,- ma6es yo0r ,iti<en
e;0ally bra4e a.ainst 1leas0re and 1ain* ,on;0erin. w-at t-ey o0.-t to
,on;0er* and s01erior to t-e enemies w-o are most dan.ero0s and
nearest -ome3
+e./ I was able to tell yo0* Stran.er* many laws w-i,- were dire,ted
a.ainst 1ain) b0t I do not 6now t-at I ,an 1oint o0t any .reat or
ob4io0s e:am1les o2 similar instit0tions w-i,- are ,on,erned wit-
1leas0re) t-ere are some lesser 1ro4isions* -owe4er* w-i,- I mi.-t
mention/
Cle/ !eit-er ,an I s-ow anyt-in. o2 t-at sort w-i,- is at all
e;0ally 1rominent in t-e Cretan laws/
At-/ !o wonder* my dear 2riends) and i2* as is 4ery li6ely* in o0r
sear,- a2ter t-e tr0e and .ood* one o2 0s may -a4e to ,ens0re t-e laws
o2 t-e ot-ers* we m0st not be o22ended* b0t ta6e 6indly w-at anot-er
says/
Cle/ 7o0 are ;0ite ri.-t* At-enian Stran.er* and we will do as yo0
say/
At-/ At o0r time o2 li2e* Cleinias* t-ere s-o0ld be no 2eelin. o2
irritation/
Cle/ Certainly not/
At-/ I will not at 1resent determine w-et-er -e w-o ,ens0res t-e
Cretan or La,edaemonian 1olities is ri.-t or wron./ B0t I belie4e t-at
I ,an tell better t-an eit-er o2 yo0 w-at t-e many say abo0t t-em/ "or
ass0min. t-at yo0 -a4e reasonably .ood laws* one o2 t-e best o2 t-em
will be t-e law 2orbiddin. any yo0n. men to en;0ire w-i,- o2 t-em
are ri.-t or wron.) b0t wit- one mo0t- and one 4oi,e t-ey m0st all
a.ree t-at t-e laws are all .ood* 2or t-ey ,ame 2rom &od) and any
one w-o says t-e ,ontrary is not to be listened to/ B0t an old man w-o
remar6s any de2e,t in yo0r laws may ,omm0ni,ate -is obser4ation to a
r0ler or to an e;0al in years w-en no yo0n. man is 1resent/
Cle/ E:a,tly so* Stran.er) and li6e a di4iner* alt-o0.- not t-ere at
t-e time* yo0 seem to me ;0ite to -a4e -it t-e meanin. o2 t-e
le.islator* and to say w-at is most tr0e/
At-/ As t-ere are no yo0n. men 1resent* and t-e le.islator -as .i4en
old men 2ree li,en,e* t-ere will be no im1ro1riety in o0r dis,0ssin.
t-ese 4ery matters now t-at we are alone/
Cle/ #r0e/ And t-ere2ore yo0 may be as 2ree as yo0 li6e in yo0r
,ens0re o2 o0r laws* 2or t-ere is no dis,redit in 6nowin. w-at is
wron.) -e w-o re,ei4es w-at is said in a .enero0s and 2riendly
s1irit will be all t-e better 2or it/
At-/ 8ery .ood) -owe4er* I am not .oin. to say anyt-in. a.ainst yo0r
laws 0ntil to t-e best o2 my ability I -a4e e:amined t-em* b0t I am
.oin. to raise do0bts abo0t t-em/ "or yo0 are t-e only 1eo1le 6nown to
0s* w-et-er &ree6 or barbarian* w-om t-e le.islator ,ommanded to
es,-ew all .reat 1leas0res and am0sements and ne4er to to0,- t-em)
w-ereas in t-e matter o2 1ains or 2ears w-i,- we -a4e j0st been
dis,0ssin.* -e t-o0.-t t-at t-ey w-o 2rom in2an,y -ad always a4oided
1ains and 2ears and sorrows* w-en t-ey were ,om1elled to 2a,e t-em
wo0ld r0n away 2rom t-ose w-o were -ardened in t-em* and wo0ld
be,ome t-eir s0bje,ts/ !ow t-e le.islator o0.-t to -a4e ,onsidered
t-at t-is was e;0ally tr0e o2 1leas0re) -e s-o0ld -a4e said to
-imsel2* t-at i2 o0r ,iti<ens are 2rom t-eir yo0t- 01ward 0na,;0ainted
wit- t-e .reatest 1leas0res* and 0n0sed to end0re amid t-e tem1tations
o2 1leas0re* and are not dis,i1lined to re2rain 2rom all t-in.s
e4il* t-e sweet 2eelin. o2 1leas0re will o4er,ome t-em j0st as 2ear
wo0ld o4er,ome t-e 2ormer ,lass) and in anot-er* and e4en a worse
manner* t-ey will be t-e sla4es o2 t-ose w-o are able to end0re amid
1leas0res* and -a4e -ad t-e o11ort0nity o2 enjoyin. t-em* t-ey bein.
o2ten t-e worst o2 man6ind/ One -al2 o2 t-eir so0ls will be a sla4e*
t-e ot-er -al2 2ree) and t-ey will not be wort-y to be ,alled in t-e
tr0e sense men and 2reemen/ #ell me w-et-er yo0 assent to my words3
Cle/ On 2irst -earin.* w-at yo0 say a11ears to be t-e tr0t-) b0t
to be -asty in ,omin. to a ,on,l0sion abo0t s0,- im1ortant matters
wo0ld be 4ery ,-ildis- and sim1le/
At-/ S011ose* Cleinias and +e.ill0s* t-at we ,onsider t-e 4irt0e
w-i,- 2ollows ne:t o2 t-ose w-i,- we intended to dis,0ss >2or a2ter
,o0ra.e ,omes tem1eran,e?* w-at instit0tions s-all we 2ind relatin. to
tem1eran,e* eit-er in Crete or La,edaemon* w-i,-* li6e yo0r military
instit0tions* di22er 2rom t-ose o2 any ordinary state/
+e./ #-at is not an easy ;0estion to answer) still I s-o0ld say t-at
t-e ,ommon meals and .ymnasti, e:er,ises -a4e been e:,ellently de4ised
2or t-e 1romotion bot- o2 tem1eran,e and ,o0ra.e/
At-/ #-ere seems to be a di22i,0lty* Stran.er* wit- re.ard to
states* in ma6in. words and 2a,ts ,oin,ide so t-at t-ere ,an be no
dis10te abo0t t-em/ As in t-e -0man body* t-e re.imen w-i,- does
.ood in one way does -arm in anot-er) and we ,an -ardly say t-at any
one ,o0rse o2 treatment is ada1ted to a 1arti,0lar ,onstit0tion/ !ow
t-e .ymnasia and ,ommon meals do a .reat deal o2 .ood* and yet t-ey
are a so0r,e o2 e4il in ,i4il tro0bles) as is s-own in t-e ,ase o2 t-e
+ilesian* and Boeotian* and #-0rian yo0t-* amon. w-om t-ese
instit0tions seem always to -a4e -ad a tenden,y to de.rade t-e an,ient
and nat0ral ,0stom o2 lo4e below t-e le4el* not only o2 man* b0t o2
t-e beasts/ #-e ,-ar.e may be 2airly bro0.-t a.ainst yo0r ,ities abo4e
all ot-ers* and is tr0e also o2 most ot-er states w-i,- es1e,ially
,0lti4ate .ymnasti,s/ W-et-er s0,- matters are to be re.arded
jestin.ly or serio0sly* I t-in6 t-at t-e 1leas0re is to be deemed
nat0ral w-i,- arises o0t o2 t-e inter,o0rse between men and women) b0t
t-at t-e inter,o0rse o2 men wit- men* or o2 women wit- women* is
,ontrary to nat0re* and t-at t-e bold attem1t was ori.inally d0e to
0nbridled l0st/ #-e Cretans are always a,,0sed o2 -a4in. in4ented
t-e story o2 &anymede and 5e0s be,a0se t-ey wanted to j0sti2y
t-emsel4es in t-e enjoyment o2 0nnat0ral 1leas0res by t-e 1ra,ti,e
o2 t-e .od w-om t-ey belie4e to -a4e been t-eir law.i4er/ Lea4in.
t-e story* we may obser4e t-at any s1e,0lation abo0t laws t0rns almost
entirely on 1leas0re and 1ain* bot- in states and in indi4id0als(
t-ese are two 2o0ntains w-i,- nat0re lets 2low* and -e w-o draws
2rom t-em w-ere and w-en* and as m0,- as -e o0.-t* is -a11y) and
t-is -olds o2 men and animals9o2 indi4id0als as well as states) and -e
w-o ind0l.es in t-em i.norantly and at t-e wron. time* is t-e
re4erse o2 -a11y/
+e./ I admit* Stran.er* t-at yo0r words are well s1o6en* and I
-ardly 6now w-at to say in answer to yo0) b0t still I t-in6 t-at t-e
S1artan law.i4er was ;0ite ri.-t in 2orbiddin. 1leas0re/ O2 t-e Cretan
laws* I s-all lea4e t-e de2en,e to my Cnosian 2riend/ B0t t-e laws
o2 S1arta* in as 2ar as t-ey relate to 1leas0re* a11ear to me to be
t-e best in t-e world) 2or t-at w-i,- leads man6ind in .eneral into
t-e wildest 1leas0re and li,en,e* and e4ery ot-er 2olly* t-e law -as
,lean dri4en o0t) and neit-er in t-e ,o0ntry nor in towns w-i,- are
0nder t-e ,ontrol o2 S1arta* will yo0 2ind re4elries and t-e many
in,itements o2 e4ery 6ind o2 1leas0re w-i,- a,,om1any t-em) and any
one w-o meets a dr0n6en and disorderly 1erson* will immediately -a4e
-im most se4erely 10nis-ed* and will not let -im o22 on any
1reten,e* not e4en at t-e time o2 a %ionysia, 2esti4al) alt-o0.- I
-a4e remar6ed t-at t-is may -a11en at yo0r 1er2orman,es Aon t-e ,art*A
as t-ey are ,alled) and amon. o0r #arentine ,olonists I -a4e seen
t-e w-ole ,ity dr0n6 at a %ionysia, 2esti4al) b0t not-in. o2 t-e
sort -a11ens amon. 0s/
At-/ O La,edaemonian Stran.er* t-ese 2esti4ities are 1raisewort-y
w-ere t-ere is a s1irit o2 end0ran,e* b0t are 4ery senseless w-en t-ey
are 0nder no re.0lations/ In order to retaliate* an At-enian -as
only to 1oint o0t t-e li,en,e w-i,- e:ists amon. yo0r women/ #o all
s0,- a,,0sations* w-et-er t-ey are bro0.-t a.ainst t-e #arentines*
or 0s* or yo0* t-ere is one answer w-i,- e:onerates t-e 1ra,ti,e in
;0estion 2rom im1ro1riety/ W-en a stran.er e:1resses wonder at t-e
sin.0larity o2 w-at -e sees* any in-abitant will nat0rally answer
-im(9Wonder not* O stran.er) t-is is o0r ,0stom* and yo0 may 4ery
li6ely -a4e some ot-er ,0stom abo0t t-e same t-in.s/ !ow we are
s1ea6in.* my 2riends* not abo0t men in .eneral* b0t abo0t t-e merits
and de2e,ts o2 t-e law.i4ers t-emsel4es/ Let 0s t-en dis,o0rse a
little more at len.t- abo0t into:i,ation* w-i,- is a 4ery im1ortant
s0bje,t* and will serio0sly tas6 t-e dis,rimination o2 t-e le.islator/
I am not s1ea6in. o2 drin6in.* or not drin6in.* wine at all* b0t o2
into:i,ation/ Are we to 2ollow t-e ,0stom o2 t-e S,yt-ians* and
Persians* and Cart-a.inians* and Celts* and Iberians* and #-ra,ians*
w-o are all warli6e nations* or t-at o2 yo0r ,o0ntrymen* 2or t-ey*
as yo0 say* alto.et-er abstain3 B0t t-e S,yt-ians and #-ra,ians*
bot- men and women* drin6 0nmi:ed wine* w-i,- t-ey 1o0r on t-eir
.arments* and t-is t-ey t-in6 a -a11y and .lorio0s instit0tion/ #-e
Persians* a.ain* are m0,- .i4en to ot-er 1ra,ti,es o2 l0:0ry w-i,- yo0
reje,t* b0t t-ey -a4e more moderation in t-em t-an t-e #-ra,ians and
S,yt-ians/
+e./ O best o2 men* we -a4e only to ta6e arms into o0r -ands* and we
send all t-ese nations 2lyin. be2ore 0s/
At-/ !ay* my .ood 2riend* do not say t-at) t-ere -a4e been* as t-ere
always will be* 2li.-ts and 10rs0its o2 w-i,- no a,,o0nt ,an be .i4en*
and t-ere2ore we ,annot say t-at 4i,tory or de2eat in battle a22ords
more t-an a do0bt20l 1roo2 o2 t-e .oodness or badness o2 instit0tions/
"or w-en t-e .reater states ,on;0er and ensla4e t-e lesser* as t-e
Syra,0sans -a4e done t-e Lo,rians* w-o a11ear to be t-e
best9.o4erned 1eo1le in t-eir 1art o2 t-e world* or as t-e At-enians
-a4e done t-e Ceans >and t-ere are ten t-o0sand ot-er instan,es o2 t-e
same sort o2 t-in.?* all t-is is not to t-e 1oint) let 0s endea4o0r
rat-er to 2orm a ,on,l0sion abo0t ea,- instit0tion in itsel2 and say
not-in.* at 1resent* o2 4i,tories and de2eats/ Let 0s only say t-at
s0,- and s0,- a ,0stom is -ono0rable* and anot-er not/ And 2irst
1ermit me to tell yo0 -ow .ood and bad are to be estimated in
re2eren,e to t-ese 4ery matters/
+e./ $ow do yo0 mean3
At-/ All t-ose w-o are ready at a moment=s noti,e to 1raise or
,ens0re any 1ra,ti,e w-i,- is matter o2 dis,0ssion* seem to me to
1ro,eed in a wron. way/ Let me .i4e yo0 an ill0stration o2 w-at I
mean(97o0 may s011ose a 1erson to be 1raisin. w-eat as a .ood 6ind
o2 2ood* w-ere01on anot-er 1erson instantly blames w-eat* wit-o0t e4er
en;0irin. into its e22e,t or 0se* or in w-at way* or to w-om* or
wit- w-at* or in w-at state and -ow* w-eat is to be .i4en/ And t-at is
j0st w-at we are doin. in t-is dis,0ssion/ At t-e 4ery mention o2
t-e word into:i,ation* one side is ready wit- t-eir 1raises and t-e
ot-er wit- t-eir ,ens0res) w-i,- is abs0rd/ "or eit-er side add0,e
t-eir witnesses and a11ro4ers* and some o2 0s t-in6 t-at we s1ea6 wit-
a0t-ority be,a0se we -a4e many witnesses) and ot-ers be,a0se t-ey
see t-ose w-o abstain ,on;0erin. in battle* and t-is a.ain is dis10ted
by 0s/ !ow I ,annot say t-at I s-all be satis2ied* i2 we .o on
dis,0ssin. ea,- o2 t-e remainin. laws in t-e same way/ And abo0t
t-is 4ery 1oint o2 into:i,ation I s-o0ld li6e to s1ea6 in anot-er way*
w-i,- I -old to be t-e ri.-t one) 2or i2 n0mber is to be t-e
,riterion* are t-ere not myriads 01on myriads o2 nations ready to
dis10te t-e 1oint wit- yo0* w-o are only two ,ities3
+e./ I s-all .ladly wel,ome any met-od o2 en;0iry w-i,- is ri.-t/
At-/ Let me 10t t-e matter t-0s(9S011ose a 1erson to 1raise t-e
6ee1in. o2 .oats* and t-e ,reat0res t-emsel4es as ,a1ital t-in.s to
-a4e* and t-en some one w-o -ad seen .oats 2eedin. wit-o0t a
.oat-erd in ,0lti4ated s1ots* and doin. mis,-ie2* were to ,ens0re a
.oat or any ot-er animal w-o -as no 6ee1er* or a bad 6ee1er* wo0ld
t-ere be any sense or j0sti,e in s0,- ,ens0re3
+e./ Certainly not/
At-/ %oes a ,a1tain re;0ire only to -a4e na0ti,al 6nowled.e in order
to be a .ood ,a1tain* w-et-er -e is sea9si,6 or not3 W-at do yo0 say3
+e./ I say t-at -e is not a .ood ,a1tain i2* alt-o0.- -e -a4e
na0ti,al s6ill* -e is liable to sea9si,6ness/
At-/ And w-at wo0ld yo0 say o2 t-e ,ommander o2 an army3 Will -e
be able to ,ommand merely be,a0se -e -as military s6ill i2 -e be a
,oward* w-o* w-en dan.er ,omes* is si,6 and dr0n6 wit- 2ear3
+e./ Im1ossible/
At-/ And w-at i2 besides bein. a ,oward -e -as no s6ill3
+e./ $e is a miserable 2ellow* not 2it to be a ,ommander o2 men* b0t
only o2 old women/
At-/ And w-at wo0ld yo0 say o2 some one w-o blames or 1raises any
sort o2 meetin. w-i,- is intended by nat0re to -a4e a r0ler* and is
well eno0.- w-en 0nder -is 1residen,y3 #-e ,riti,* -owe4er* -as
ne4er seen t-e so,iety meetin. to.et-er at an orderly 2east 0nder
t-e ,ontrol o2 a 1resident* b0t always wit-o0t a r0ler or wit- a bad
one(9w-en obser4ers o2 t-is ,lass 1raise or blame s0,- meetin.s* are
we to s011ose t-at w-at t-ey say is o2 any 4al0e3
+e./ Certainly not* i2 t-ey -a4e ne4er seen or been 1resent at
s0,- a meetin. w-en ri.-tly ordered/
At-/ e2le,t) may not ban;0eters and ban;0ets be said to
,onstit0te a 6ind o2 meetin.3
+e./ O2 ,o0rse/
At-/ And did any one e4er see t-is sort o2 ,on4i4ial meetin. ri.-tly
ordered3 O2 ,o0rse yo0 two will answer t-at yo0 -a4e ne4er seen t-em
at all* be,a0se t-ey are not ,0stomary or law20l in yo0r ,o0ntry)
b0t I -a4e ,ome a,ross many o2 t-em in many di22erent 1la,es* and
moreo4er I -a4e made en;0iries abo0t t-em w-ere4er I went* as I may
say* and ne4er did I see or -ear o2 anyt-in. o2 t-e 6ind w-i,- was
,arried on alto.et-er ri.-tly) in some 2ew 1arti,0lars t-ey mi.-t be
ri.-t* b0t in .eneral t-ey were 0tterly wron./
Cle/ W-at do yo0 mean* Stran.er* by t-is remar63 E:1lain) "or we* as
yo0 say* 2rom o0r ine:1erien,e in s0,- matters* mi.-t 4ery li6ely
not 6now* e4en i2 t-ey ,ame in o0r way* w-at was ri.-t or wron. in
s0,- so,ieties/
At-/ Li6ely eno0.-) t-en let me try to be yo0r instr0,tor( 7o0 wo0ld
a,6nowled.e* wo0ld yo0 not* t-at in all .at-erin.s o2 man* 6ind* o2
w-ate4er sort* t-ere o0.-t to be a leader3
Cle/ Certainly I s-o0ld/
At-/ And we were sayin. j0st now* t-at w-en men are at war t-e
leader o0.-t to be a bra4e man3
Cle/ We were/
At-/ #-e bra4e man is less li6ely t-an t-e ,oward to be dist0rbed by
2ears3
Cle/ #-at a.ain is tr0e/
At-/ And i2 t-ere were a 1ossibility o2 -a4in. a .eneral o2 an
army w-o was absol0tely 2earless and im1ert0rbable* s-o0ld we not by
all means a11oint -im3
Cle/ Ass0redly/
At-/ !ow* -owe4er* we are s1ea6in. not o2 a .eneral w-o is to
,ommand an army* w-en 2oe meets 2oe in time o2 war* b0t o2 one w-o
is to re.0late meetin.s o2 anot-er sort* w-en 2riend meets 2riend in
time o2 1ea,e/
Cle/ #r0e/
At-/ And t-at sort o2 meetin.* i2 attended wit- dr0n6enness* is
a1t to be 0n;0iet/
Cle/ Certainly) t-e re4erse o2 ;0iet/
At-/ In t-e 2irst 1la,e* t-en* t-e re4ellers as well as t-e soldiers
will re;0ire a r0ler3
Cle/ #o be s0re) no men more so/
At-/ And we o0.-t* i2 1ossible* to 1ro4ide t-em wit- a ;0iet r0ler3
Cle/ O2 ,o0rse/
At-/ And -e s-o0ld be a man w-o 0nderstands so,iety) 2or -is d0ty is
to 1reser4e t-e 2riendly 2eelin.s w-i,- e:ist amon. t-e ,om1any at t-e
time* and to in,rease t-em 2or t-e 20t0re by -is 0se o2 t-e o,,asion/
Cle/ 8ery tr0e/
At-/ +0st we not a11oint a sober man and a wise to be o0r master
o2 t-e re4els3 "or i2 t-e r0ler o2 drin6ers be -imsel2 yo0n. and
dr0n6en* and not o4er9wise* only by some s1e,ial .ood 2ort0ne will
-e be sa4ed 2rom doin. some .reat e4il/
Cle/ It will be by a sin.0lar .ood 2ort0ne t-at -e is sa4ed/
At-/ !ow s011ose s0,- asso,iations to be 2ramed in t-e best way
1ossible in states* and t-at some one blames t-e 4ery 2a,t o2 t-eir
e:isten,e9-e may 4ery li6ely be ri.-t/ B0t i2 -e blames a 1ra,ti,e
w-i,- -e only sees 4ery m0,- mismana.ed* -e s-ows in t-e 2irst 1la,e
t-at -e is not aware o2 t-e mismana.ement* and also not aware t-at
e4eryt-in. done in t-is way will t0rn o0t to be wron.* be,a0se done
wit-o0t t-e s01erintenden,e o2 a sober r0ler/ %o yo0 not see t-at a
dr0n6en 1ilot or a dr0n6en r0ler o2 any sort will r0in s-i1*
,-ariot* army9anyt-in.* in s-ort* o2 w-i,- -e -as t-e dire,tion3
Cle/ #-e last remar6 is 4ery tr0e* Stran.er) and I see ;0ite ,learly
t-e ad4anta.e o2 an army -a4in. a .ood leader9-e will .i4e 4i,tory
in war to -is 2ollowers* w-i,- is a 4ery .reat ad4anta.e) and so o2
ot-er t-in.s/ B0t I do not see any similar ad4anta.e w-i,- eit-er
indi4id0als or states .ain 2rom t-e .ood mana.ement o2 a 2east) and
I want yo0 to tell me w-at .reat .ood will be e22e,ted* s011osin. t-at
t-is drin6in. ordinan,e is d0ly establis-ed/
At-/ I2 yo0 mean to as6 w-at .reat .ood a,,r0es to t-e state 2rom
t-e ri.-t trainin. o2 a sin.le yo0t-* or o2 a sin.le ,-or0s9w-en t-e
;0estion is 10t in t-at 2orm* we ,annot deny t-at t-e .ood is not 4ery
.reat in any 1arti,0lar instan,e/ B0t i2 yo0 as6 w-at is t-e .ood o2
ed0,ation in .eneral* t-e answer is easy9t-at ed0,ation ma6es .ood
men* and t-at .ood men a,t nobly* and ,on;0er t-eir enemies in battle*
be,a0se t-ey are .ood/ Ed0,ation ,ertainly .i4es 4i,tory* alt-o0.-
4i,tory sometimes 1rod0,es 2or.et20lness o2 ed0,ation) 2or many -a4e
.rown insolent 2rom 4i,tory in war* and t-is insolen,e -as
en.endered in t-em inn0merable e4ils) and many a 4i,tory -as been
and will be s0i,idal to t-e 4i,tors) b0t ed0,ation is ne4er s0i,idal/
Cle/ 7o0 seem to im1ly* my 2riend* t-at ,on4i4ial meetin.s* w-en
ri.-tly ordered* are an im1ortant element o2 ed0,ation/
At-/ Certainly I do/
Cle/ And ,an yo0 s-ow t-at w-at yo0 -a4e been sayin. is tr0e3
At-/ #o be absol0tely s0re o2 t-e tr0t- o2 matters ,on,ernin.
w-i,- t-ere are many o1inions* is an attrib0te o2 t-e &ods not .i4en
to man* Stran.er) b0t I s-all be 4ery -a11y to tell yo0 w-at I
t-in6* es1e,ially as we are now 1ro1osin. to enter on a dis,0ssion
,on,ernin. laws and ,onstit0tions/
Cle/ 7o0r o1inion* Stran.er* abo0t t-e ;0estions w-i,- are now bein.
raised* is 1re,isely w-at we want to -ear/
At-/ 8ery .ood) I will try to 2ind a way o2 e:1lainin. my meanin.*
and yo0 s-all try to -a4e t-e .i2t o2 0nderstandin. me/ B0t 2irst
let me ma6e an a1olo.y/ #-e At-enian ,iti<en is re10ted amon. all
t-e $ellenes to be a .reat tal6er* w-ereas S1arta is renowned 2or
bre4ity* and t-e Cretans -a4e more wit t-an words/ !ow I am a2raid
o2 a11earin. to eli,it a 4ery lon. dis,o0rse o0t o2 4ery small
materials/ "or drin6in. indeed may a11ear to be a sli.-t matter* and
yet is one w-i,- ,annot be ri.-tly ordered a,,ordin. to nat0re*
wit-o0t ,orre,t 1rin,i1les o2 m0si,) t-ese are ne,essary to any
,lear or satis2a,tory treatment o2 t-e s0bje,t* and m0si, a.ain r0ns
01 into ed0,ation .enerally* and t-ere is m0,- to be said abo0t all
t-is/ W-at wo0ld yo0 say t-en to lea4in. t-ese matters 2or t-e
1resent* and 1assin. on to some ot-er ;0estion o2 law3
+e./ O At-enian Stran.er* let me tell yo0 w-at 1er-a1s yo0 do not
6now* t-at o0r 2amily is t-e 1ro:en0s o2 yo0r state/ I ima.ine t-at
2rom t-eir earliest yo0t- all boys* w-en t-ey are told t-at t-ey are
t-e 1ro:eni o2 a 1arti,0lar state* 2eel 6indly towards t-eir se,ond
and t-is -as ,ertainly been my own 2eelin./ I ,an well remember 2rom
t-e days o2 my boy-ood* -ow* w-en any La,edaemonians 1raised or blamed
t-e At-enians* t-ey 0sed to say to me9ASee* +e.ill0s* -ow ill or -ow
well*A as t-e ,ase mi.-t be* A-as yo0r state treated 0sA) and -a4in.
always -ad to 2i.-t yo0r battles a.ainst detra,tors w-en I -eard yo0
assailed* I be,ame warmly atta,-ed to yo0/ And I always li6e to -ear
t-e At-enian ton.0e s1o6en) t-e ,ommon sayin. is ;0ite tr0e* t-at a
.ood At-enian is more t-an ordinarily .ood* 2or -e is t-e only man w-o
is 2reely and .en0inely .ood by t-e di4ine ins1iration o2 -is own
nat0re* and is not man02a,t0red/ #-ere2ore be ass0red t-at I s-all
li6e to -ear yo0 say w-ate4er yo0 -a4e to say/
Cle/ 7es* Stran.er) and w-en yo0 -a4e -eard me s1ea6* say boldly
w-at is in yo0r t-o0.-ts/ Let me remind yo0 o2 a tie w-i,- 0nites
yo0 to Crete/ 7o0 m0st -a4e -eard -ere t-e story o2 t-e 1ro1-et
E1imenides* w-o was o2 my 2amily* and ,ame to At-ens ten years
be2ore t-e Persian war* in a,,ordan,e wit- t-e res1onse o2 t-e Ora,le*
and o22ered ,ertain sa,ri2i,es w-i,- t-e &od ,ommanded/ #-e
At-enians were at t-at time in dread o2 t-e Persian in4asion) and -e
said t-at 2or ten years t-ey wo0ld not ,ome* and t-at w-en t-ey
,ame* t-ey wo0ld .o away a.ain wit-o0t a,,om1lis-in. any o2 t-eir
obje,ts* and wo0ld s022er more e4il t-an t-ey in2li,ted/ At t-at
time my 2ore2at-ers 2ormed ties o2 -os1itality wit- yo0) t-0s
an,ient is t-e 2riends-i1 w-i,- I and my 1arents -a4e -ad 2or yo0/
At-/ 7o0 seem to be ;0ite ready to listen) and I am also ready to
1er2orm as m0,- as I ,an o2 an almost im1ossible tas6* w-i,- I will
ne4ert-eless attem1t/ At t-e o0tset o2 t-e dis,0ssion* let me de2ine
t-e nat0re and 1ower o2 ed0,ation) 2or t-is is t-e way by w-i,- o0r
ar.0ment m0st tra4el onwards to t-e &od %ionys0s/
Cle/ Let 0s 1ro,eed* i2 yo0 1lease/
At-/ Well* t-en* i2 I tell yo0 w-at are my notions o2 ed0,ation*
will yo0 ,onsider w-et-er t-ey satis2y yo03
Cle/ Let 0s -ear/
At-/ A,,ordin. to my 4iew* any one w-o wo0ld be .ood at anyt-in.
m0st 1ra,tise t-at t-in. 2rom -is yo0t- 01wards* bot- in s1ort and
earnest* in its se4eral bran,-es( 2or e:am1le* -e w-o is to be a
.ood b0ilder* s-o0ld 1lay at b0ildin. ,-ildren=s -o0ses) -e w-o is
to be a .ood -0sbandman* at tillin. t-e .ro0nd) and t-ose w-o -a4e t-e
,are o2 t-eir ed0,ation s-o0ld 1ro4ide t-em w-en yo0n. wit- mimi,
tools/ #-ey s-o0ld learn be2ore-and t-e 6nowled.e w-i,- t-ey will
a2terwards re;0ire 2or t-eir art/ "or e:am1le* t-e 20t0re ,ar1enter
s-o0ld learn to meas0re or a11ly t-e line in 1lay) and t-e 20t0re
warrior s-o0ld learn ridin.* or some ot-er e:er,ise* 2or am0sement*
and t-e tea,-er s-o0ld endea4o0r to dire,t t-e ,-ildren=s in,linations
and 1leas0res* by t-e -el1 o2 am0sements* to t-eir 2inal aim in
li2e/ #-e most im1ortant 1art o2 ed0,ation is ri.-t trainin. in t-e
n0rsery/ #-e so0l o2 t-e ,-ild in -is 1lay s-o0ld be .0ided to t-e
lo4e o2 t-at sort o2 e:,ellen,e in w-i,- w-en -e .rows 01 to man-ood
-e will -a4e to be 1er2e,ted/ %o yo0 a.ree wit- me t-0s 2ar3
Cle/ Certainly/
At-/ #-en let 0s not lea4e t-e meanin. o2 ed0,ation ambi.0o0s or
ill9de2ined/ At 1resent* w-en we s1ea6 in terms o2 1raise or blame
abo0t t-e brin.in.901 o2 ea,- 1erson* we ,all one man ed0,ated and
anot-er 0ned0,ated* alt-o0.- t-e 0ned0,ated man may be sometimes
4ery well ed0,ated 2or t-e ,allin. o2 a retail trader* or o2 a ,a1tain
o2 a s-i1* and t-e li6e/ "or we are not s1ea6in. o2 ed0,ation in
t-is narrower sense* b0t o2 t-at ot-er ed0,ation in 4irt0e 2rom
yo0t- 01wards* w-i,- ma6es a man ea.erly 10rs0e t-e ideal 1er2e,tion
o2 ,iti<ens-i1* and tea,-es -im -ow ri.-tly to r0le and -ow to obey/
#-is is t-e only ed0,ation w-i,-* 01on o0r 4iew* deser4es t-e name)
t-at ot-er sort o2 trainin.* w-i,- aims at t-e a,;0isition o2 wealt-
or bodily stren.t-* or mere ,le4erness a1art 2rom intelli.en,e and
j0sti,e* is mean and illiberal* and is not wort-y to be ,alled
ed0,ation at all/ B0t let 0s not ;0arrel wit- one anot-er abo0t a
word* 1ro4ided t-at t-e 1ro1osition w-i,- -as j0st been .ranted -old
.ood( to wit* t-at t-ose w-o are ri.-tly ed0,ated .enerally be,ome
.ood men/ !eit-er m0st we ,ast a sli.-t 01on ed0,ation* w-i,- is t-e
2irst and 2airest t-in. t-at t-e best o2 men ,an e4er -a4e* and w-i,-*
t-o0.- liable to ta6e a wron. dire,tion* is ,a1able o2 re2ormation/
And t-is wor6 o2 re2ormation is t-e .reat b0siness o2 e4ery man
w-ile -e li4es/
Cle/ 8ery tr0e) and we entirely a.ree wit- yo0/
At-/ And we a.reed be2ore t-at t-ey are .ood men w-o are able to
r0le t-emsel4es* and bad men w-o are not/
Cle/ 7o0 are ;0ite ri.-t/
At-/ Let me now 1ro,eed* i2 I ,an* to ,lear 01 t-e s0bje,t a
little 20rt-er by an ill0stration w-i,- I will o22er yo0/
Cle/ Pro,eed/
At-/ %o we not ,onsider ea,- o2 o0rsel4es to be one3
Cle/ We do/
At-/ And ea,- one o2 0s -as in -is bosom two ,o0nsellors* bot-
2oolis- and also anta.onisti,) o2 w-i,- we ,all t-e one 1leas0re*
and t-e ot-er 1ain/
Cle/ E:a,tly/
At-/ Also t-ere are o1inions abo0t t-e 20t0re* w-i,- -a4e t-e
.eneral name o2 e:1e,tations) and t-e s1e,i2i, name o2 2ear* w-en
t-e e:1e,tation is o2 1ain) and o2 -o1e* w-en o2 1leas0re) and
20rt-er* t-ere is re2le,tion abo0t t-e .ood or e4il o2 t-em* and t-is*
w-en embodied in a de,ree by t-e State* is ,alled Law/
Cle/ I am -ardly able to 2ollow yo0) 1ro,eed* -owe4er* as i2 I were/
+e./ I am in t-e li6e ,ase/
At-/ Let 0s loo6 at t-e matter t-0s( +ay we not ,on,ei4e ea,- o2
0s li4in. bein.s to be a 1011et o2 t-e &ods* eit-er t-eir 1layt-in.
only* or ,reated wit- a 10r1ose9w-i,- o2 t-e two we ,annot ,ertainly
6now3 B0t we do 6now* t-at t-ese a22e,tions in 0s are li6e ,ords and
strin.s* w-i,- 10ll 0s di22erent and o11osite ways* and to o11osite
a,tions) and -erein lies t-e di22eren,e between 4irt0e and 4i,e/
A,,ordin. to t-e ar.0ment t-ere is one amon. t-ese ,ords w-i,- e4ery
man o0.-t to .ras1 and ne4er let .o* b0t to 10ll wit- it a.ainst all
t-e rest) and t-is is t-e sa,red and .olden ,ord o2 reason* ,alled
by 0s t-e ,ommon law o2 t-e State) t-ere are ot-ers w-i,- are -ard and
o2 iron* b0t t-is one is so2t be,a0se .olden) and t-ere are se4eral
ot-er 6inds/ !ow we o0.-t always to ,oo1erate wit- t-e lead o2 t-e
best* w-i,- is law/ "or inasm0,- as reason is bea0ti20l and .entle*
and not 4iolent* -er r0le m0st needs -a4e ministers in order to -el1
t-e .olden 1rin,i1le in 4an;0is-in. t-e ot-er 1rin,i1les/ And t-0s t-e
moral o2 t-e tale abo0t o0r bein. 1011ets will not -a4e been lost* and
t-e meanin. o2 t-e e:1ression As01erior or in2erior to a man=s sel2A
will be,ome ,learer) and t-e indi4id0al* attainin. to ri.-t reason
in t-is matter o2 10llin. t-e strin.s o2 t-e 1011et* s-o0ld li4e
a,,ordin. to its r0le) w-ile t-e ,ity* re,ei4in. t-e same 2rom some
.od or 2rom one w-o -as 6nowled.e o2 t-ese t-in.s* s-o0ld embody it in
a law* to be -er .0ide in -er dealin.s wit- -ersel2 and wit- ot-er
states/ In t-is way 4irt0e and 4i,e will be more ,learly distin.0is-ed
by 0s/ And w-en t-ey -a4e be,ome ,learer* ed0,ation and ot-er
instit0tions will in li6e manner be,ome ,learer) and in 1arti,0lar
t-at ;0estion o2 ,on4i4ial entertainment* w-i,- may seem* 1er-a1s*
to -a4e been a 4ery tri2lin. matter* and to -a4e ta6en a .reat many
more words t-an were ne,essary/
Cle/ Per-a1s* -owe4er* t-e t-eme may t0rn o0t not to be 0nwort-y
o2 t-e len.t- o2 dis,o0rse/
At-/ 8ery .ood) let 0s 1ro,eed wit- any en;0iry w-i,- really bears
on o0r 1resent obje,t/
Cle/ Pro,eed/
At-/ S011ose t-at we .i4e t-is 1011et o2 o0rs drin69w-at will be t-e
e22e,t on -im3
Cle/ $a4in. w-at in 4iew do yo0 as6 t-at ;0estion3
At-/ !ot-in. as yet) b0t I as6 .enerally* w-en t-e 1011et is bro0.-t
to t-e drin6* w-at sort o2 res0lt is li6ely to 2ollow/ I will
endea4o0r to e:1lain my meanin. more ,learly( w-at I am now as6in.
is t-is9%oes t-e drin6in. o2 wine -ei.-ten and in,rease 1leas0res
and 1ains* and 1assions and lo4es3
Cle/ 8ery .reatly/
At-/ And are 1er,e1tion and memory* and o1inion and 1r0den,e*
-ei.-tened and in,reased3 %o not t-ese ;0alities entirely desert a man
i2 -e be,omes sat0rated wit- drin63
Cle/ 7es* t-ey entirely desert -im/
At-/ %oes -e not ret0rn to t-e state o2 so0l in w-i,- -e was w-en
a yo0n. ,-ild3
Cle/ $e does/
At-/ #-en at t-at time -e will -a4e t-e least ,ontrol o4er -imsel23
Cle/ #-e least/
At-/ And will -e not be in a most wret,-ed 1li.-t3
Cle/ +ost wret,-ed/
At-/ #-en not only an old man b0t also a dr0n6ard be,omes a se,ond
time a ,-ild3
Cle/ Well said* Stran.er/
At-/ Is t-ere any ar.0ment w-i,- will 1ro4e to 0s t-at we o0.-t to
en,o0ra.e t-e taste 2or drin6in. instead o2 doin. all we ,an to
a4oid it3
Cle/ I s011ose t-at t-ere is) yo0 at any rate* were j0st now
sayin. t-at yo0 were ready to maintain s0,- a do,trine/
At-/ #r0e* I was) and I am ready still* seein. t-at yo0 -a4e bot-
de,lared t-at yo0 are an:io0s to -ear me/
Cle/ #o s0re we are* i2 only 2or t-e stran.eness o2 t-e 1arado:*
w-i,- asserts t-at a man o0.-t o2 -is own a,,ord to 1l0n.e into
0tter de.radation/
At-/ Are yo0 s1ea6in. o2 t-e so0l3
Cle/ 7es/
At-/ And w-at wo0ld yo0 say abo0t t-e body* my 2riend3 Are yo0 not
s0r1rised at any one o2 -is own a,,ord brin.in. 01on -imsel2
de2ormity* leanness* 0.liness* de,re1it0de3
Cle/ Certainly/
At-/ 7et w-en a man .oes o2 -is own a,,ord to a do,tor=s s-o1* and
ta6es medi,ine* is -e not aware t-at soon* and 2or many days
a2terwards* -e will be in a state o2 body w-i,- -e wo0ld die rat-er
t-an a,,e1t as t-e 1ermanent ,ondition o2 -is li2e3 Are not t-ose
w-o train in .ymnasia* at 2irst be.innin. red0,ed to a state o2
wea6ness3
Cle/ 7es* all t-at is well 6nown/
At-/ Also t-at t-ey .o o2 t-eir own a,,ord 2or t-e sa6e o2 t-e
s0bse;0ent bene2it3
Cle/ 8ery .ood/
At-/ And we may ,on,ei4e t-is to be tr0e in t-e same way o2 ot-er
1ra,ti,es3
Cle/ Certainly/
At-/ And t-e same 4iew may be ta6en o2 t-e 1astime o2 drin6in. wine*
i2 we are ri.-t in s011osin. t-at t-e same .ood e22e,t 2ollows3
Cle/ #o be s0re/
At-/ I2 s0,- ,on4i4ialities s-o0ld t0rn o0t to -a4e any ad4anta.e
e;0al in im1ortan,e to t-at o2 .ymnasti,* t-ey are in t-eir 4ery
nat0re to be 1re2erred to mere bodily e:er,ise* inasm0,- as t-ey
-a4e no a,,om1animent o2 1ain/
Cle/ #r0e) b0t I -ardly t-in6 t-at we s-all be able to dis,o4er
any s0,- bene2its to be deri4ed 2rom t-em/
At-/ #-at is j0st w-at we m0st endea4o0r to s-ow/ And let me as6 yo0
a ;0estion(9%o we not distin.0is- two 6inds o2 2ear* w-i,- are 4ery
di22erent3
Cle/ W-at are t-ey3
At-/ #-ere is t-e 2ear o2 e:1e,ted e4il/
Cle/ 7es/
At-/ And t-ere is t-e 2ear o2 an e4il re10tation) we are a2raid
o2 bein. t-o0.-t e4il* be,a0se we do or say some dis-ono0rable
t-in.* w-i,- 2ear we and all men term s-ame/
Cle/ Certainly/
At-/ #-ese are t-e two 2ears* as I ,alled t-em) one o2 w-i,- is
t-e o11osite o2 1ain and ot-er 2ears* and t-e o11osite also o2 t-e
.reatest and most n0mero0s sort o2 1leas0res/
Cle/ 8ery tr0e/
At-/ And does not t-e le.islator and e4ery one w-o is .ood 2or
anyt-in.* -old t-is 2ear in t-e .reatest -ono0r3 #-is is w-at -e terms
re4eren,e* and t-e ,on2iden,e w-i,- is t-e re4erse o2 t-is -e terms
insolen,e) and t-e latter -e always deems to be a 4ery .reat e4il bot-
to indi4id0als and to states/
Cle/ #r0e/
At-/ %oes not t-is 6ind o2 2ear 1reser4e 0s in many im1ortant
ways3 W-at is t-ere w-i,- so s0rely .i4es 4i,tory and sa2ety in war3
"or t-ere are two t-in.s w-i,- .i4e 4i,tory9,on2iden,e be2ore enemies*
and 2ear o2 dis.ra,e be2ore 2riends/
Cle/ #-ere are/
At-/ #-en ea,- o2 0s s-o0ld be 2earless and also 2ear20l) and w-y we
s-o0ld be eit-er -as now been determined/
Cle/ Certainly/
At-/ And w-en we want to ma6e any one 2earless* we and t-e law brin.
-im 2a,e to 2a,e wit- many 2ears/
Cle/ Clearly/
At-/ And w-en we want to ma6e -im ri.-tly 2ear20l* m0st we not
introd0,e -im to s-ameless 1leas0res* and train -im to ta6e 01 arms
a.ainst t-em* and to o4er,ome t-em3 Or does t-is 1rin,i1le a11ly to
,o0ra.e only* and m0st -e w-o wo0ld be 1er2e,t in 4alo0r 2i.-t a.ainst
and o4er,ome -is own nat0ral ,-ara,ter9sin,e i2 -e be 0n1ra,tised
and ine:1erien,ed in s0,- ,on2li,ts* -e will not be -al2 t-e man w-i,-
-e mi.-t -a4e been9and are we to s011ose* t-at wit- tem1eran,e it is
ot-erwise* and t-at -e w-o -as ne4er 2o0.-t wit- t-e s-ameless and
0nri.-teo0s tem1tations o2 -is 1leas0res and l0sts* and ,on;0ered
t-em* in earnest and in 1lay* by word* deed* and a,t* will still be
1er2e,tly tem1erate3
Cle/ A most 0nli6ely s011osition/
At-/ S011ose t-at some &od -ad .i4en a 2ear91otion to men* and
t-at t-e more a man dran6 o2 t-is t-e more -e re.arded -imsel2 at
e4ery dra0.-t as a ,-ild o2 mis2ort0ne* and t-at -e 2eared
e4eryt-in. -a11enin. or abo0t to -a11en to -im) and t-at at last t-e
most ,o0ra.eo0s o2 men 0tterly lost -is 1resen,e o2 mind 2or a time*
and only ,ame to -imsel2 a.ain w-en -e -ad sle1t o22 t-e in2l0en,e
o2 t-e dra0.-t/
Cle/ B0t -as s0,- a dra0.-t* Stran.er* e4er really been 6nown
amon. men3
At-/ !o) b0t* i2 t-ere -ad been* mi.-t not s0,- a dra0.-t -a4e
been o2 0se to t-e le.islator as a test o2 ,o0ra.e3 +i.-t we not .o
and say to -im* AO le.islator* w-et-er yo0 are le.islatin. 2or t-e
Cretan* or 2or any ot-er state* wo0ld yo0 not li6e to -a4e a
to0,-stone o2 t-e ,o0ra.e and ,owardi,e o2 yo0r ,iti<ens3A
Cle/ AI s-o0ld*A will be t-e answer o2 e4ery one/
At-/ AAnd yo0 wo0ld rat-er -a4e a to0,-stone in w-i,- t-ere is no
ris6 and no .reat dan.er t-an t-e re4erse3A
Cle/ In t-at 1ro1osition e4ery one may sa2ely a.ree/
At-/ AAnd in order to ma6e 0se o2 t-e dra0.-t* yo0 wo0ld lead t-em
amid t-ese ima.inary terrors* and 1ro4e t-em* w-en t-e a22e,tion o2
2ear was wor6in. 01on t-em* and ,om1el t-em to be 2earless*
e:-ortin. and admonis-in. t-em) and also -ono0rin. t-em* b0t
dis-ono0rin. any one w-o will not be 1ers0aded by yo0 to be in all
res1e,ts s0,- as yo0 ,ommand -im) and i2 -e 0nderwent t-e trial well
and man20lly* yo0 wo0ld let -im .o 0ns,at-ed) b0t i2 ill* yo0 wo0ld
in2li,t a 10nis-ment 01on -im3 Or wo0ld yo0 abstain 2rom 0sin. t-e
1otion alto.et-er* alt-o0.- yo0 -a4e no reason 2or abstainin.3A
Cle/ $e wo0ld be ,ertain* Stran.er* to 0se t-e 1otion/
At-/ #-is wo0ld be a mode o2 testin. and trainin. w-i,- wo0ld be
wonder20lly easy in ,om1arison wit- t-ose now in 0se* and mi.-t be
a11lied to a sin.le 1erson* or to a 2ew* or indeed to any n0mber)
and -e wo0ld do well w-o 1ro4ided -imsel2 wit- t-e 1otion only* rat-er
t-an wit- any n0mber o2 ot-er t-in.s* w-et-er -e 1re2erred to be by
-imsel2 in solit0de* and t-ere ,ontend wit- -is 2ears* be,a0se -e
was as-amed to be seen by t-e eye o2 man 0ntil -e was 1er2e,t) or
tr0stin. to t-e 2or,e o2 -is own nat0re and -abits* and belie4in. t-at
-e -ad been already dis,i1lined s022i,iently* -e did not -esitate to
train -imsel2 in ,om1any wit- any n0mber o2 ot-ers* and dis1lay -is
1ower in ,on;0erin. t-e irresistible ,-an.e e22e,ted by t-e
dra0.-t9-is 4irt0e bein. s0,-* t-at -e ne4er in any instan,e 2ell into
any .reat 0nseemliness* b0t was always -imsel2* and le2t o22 be2ore -e
arri4ed at t-e last ,01* 2earin. t-at -e* li6e all ot-er men* mi.-t be
o4er,ome by t-e 1otion/
Cle/ 7es* Stran.er* in t-at last ,ase* too* -e mi.-t e;0ally s-ow
-is sel29,ontrol/
At-/ Let 0s ret0rn to t-e law.i4er* and say to -im(9AWell* law.i4er*
t-ere is ,ertainly no s0,- 2ear91otion w-i,- man -as eit-er re,ei4ed
2rom t-e &ods or -imsel2 dis,o4ered) 2or wit,-,ra2t -as no 1la,e at
o0r board/ B0t is t-ere any 1otion w-i,- mi.-t ser4e as a test o2
o4erboldness and e:,essi4e and indis,reet boastin.3
Cle/ I s011ose t-at -e will say* 7es9meanin. t-at wine is s0,- a
1otion/
At-/ Is not t-e e22e,t o2 t-is ;0ite t-e o11osite o2 t-e e22e,t o2
t-e ot-er3 W-en a man drin6s wine -e be.ins to be better 1leased
wit- -imsel2* and t-e more -e drin6s t-e more -e is 2illed 20ll o2
bra4e -o1es* and ,on,eit o2 -is 1ower* and at last t-e strin. o2 -is
ton.0e is loosened* and 2an,yin. -imsel2 wise* -e is brimmin. o4er
wit- lawlessness* and -as no more 2ear or res1e,t* and is ready to
do or say anyt-in./
Cle/ I t-in6 t-at e4ery one will admit t-e tr0t- o2 yo0r
des,ri1tion/
+e./ Certainly/
At-/ !ow* let 0s remember* as we were sayin.* t-at t-ere are two
t-in.s w-i,- s-o0ld be ,0lti4ated in t-e so0l( 2irst* t-e .reatest
,o0ra.e) se,ondly* t-e .reatest 2ear9
Cle/ W-i,- yo0 said to be ,-ara,teristi, o2 re4eren,e* i2 I am not
mista6en/
At-/ #-an6 yo0 2or remindin. me/ B0t now* as t-e -abit o2 ,o0ra.e
and 2earlessness is to be trained amid 2ears* let 0s ,onsider
w-et-er t-e o11osite ;0ality is not also to be trained amon.
o11osites/
Cle/ #-at is 1robably t-e ,ase/
At-/ #-ere are times and seasons at w-i,- we are by nat0re more t-an
,ommonly 4aliant and bold) now we o0.-t to train o0rsel4es on t-ese
o,,asions to be as 2ree 2rom im10den,e and s-amelessness as
1ossible* and to be a2raid to say or s022er or do anyt-in. t-at is
base/
Cle/ #r0e/
At-/ Are not t-e moments in w-i,- we are a1t to be bold and
s-ameless s0,- as t-ese39w-en we are 0nder t-e in2l0en,e o2 an.er*
lo4e* 1ride* i.noran,e* a4ari,e* ,owardi,e3 or w-en wealt-* bea0ty*
stren.t-* and all t-e into:i,atin. wor6in.s o2 1leas0re madden 0s3
W-at is better ada1ted t-an t-e 2esti4e 0se o2 wine* in t-e 2irst
1la,e to test* and in t-e se,ond 1la,e to train t-e ,-ara,ter o2 a
man* i2 ,are be ta6en in t-e 0se o2 it3 W-at is t-ere ,-ea1er* or more
inno,ent3 "or do b0t ,onsider w-i,- is t-e .reater ris6(9Wo0ld yo0
rat-er test a man o2 a morose and sa4a.e nat0re* w-i,- is t-e so0r,e
o2 ten t-o0sand a,ts o2 inj0sti,e* by ma6in. bar.ains wit- -im at a
ris6 to yo0rsel2* or by -a4in. -im as a ,om1anion at t-e 2esti4al o2
%ionys0s3 Or wo0ld yo0* i2 yo0 wanted to a11ly a to0,-stone to a man
w-o is 1rone to lo4e* entr0st yo0r wi2e* or yo0r sons* or da0.-ters to
-im* 1erillin. yo0r dearest interests in order to -a4e a 4iew o2 t-e
,ondition o2 -is so0l3 I mi.-t mention n0mberless ,ases* in w-i,-
t-e ad4anta.e wo0ld be mani2est o2 .ettin. to 6now a ,-ara,ter in
s1ort* and wit-o0t 1ayin. dearly 2or e:1erien,e/ And I do not
belie4e t-at eit-er a Cretan* or any ot-er man* will do0bt t-at s0,- a
test is a 2air test* and sa2er* ,-ea1er* and s1eedier t-an any ot-er/
Cle/ #-at is ,ertainly tr0e/
At-/ And t-is 6nowled.e o2 t-e nat0res and -abits o2 men=s so0ls
will be o2 t-e .reatest 0se in t-at art w-i,- -as t-e mana.ement o2
t-em) and t-at art* i2 I am not mista6en* is 1oliti,s/
Cle/ E:a,tly so/
BOOK II
At-enian Stran.er/ And now we -a4e to ,onsider w-et-er t-e insi.-t
into -0man nat0re is t-e only bene2it deri4ed 2rom well ordered
1otations* or w-et-er t-ere are not ot-er ad4anta.es .reat and m0,- to
be desired/ #-e ar.0ment seems to im1ly t-at t-ere are/ B0t -ow and in
w-at way t-ese are to be attained* will -a4e to be ,onsidered
attenti4ely* or we may be entan.led in error/
Cleinias/ Pro,eed/
At-/ Let me on,e more re,all o0r do,trine o2 ri.-t ed0,ation) w-i,-*
i2 I am not mista6en* de1ends on t-e d0e re.0lation o2 ,on4i4ial
inter,o0rse/
Cle/ 7o0 tal6 rat-er .randly/
At-/ Pleas0re and 1ain I maintain to be t-e 2irst 1er,e1tions o2
,-ildren* and I say t-at t-ey are t-e 2orms 0nder w-i,- 4irt0e and
4i,e are ori.inally 1resent to t-em/ As to wisdom and tr0e and 2i:ed
o1inions* -a11y is t-e man w-o a,;0ires t-em* e4en w-en de,linin. in
years) and we may say t-at -e w-o 1ossesses t-em* and t-e blessin.s
w-i,- are ,ontained in t-em* is a 1er2e,t man/ !ow I mean by ed0,ation
t-at trainin. w-i,- is .i4en by s0itable -abits to t-e 2irst instin,ts
o2 4irt0e in ,-ildren)9w-en 1leas0re* and 2riends-i1* and 1ain* and
-atred* are ri.-tly im1lanted in so0ls not yet ,a1able o2
0nderstandin. t-e nat0re o2 t-em* and w-o 2ind t-em* a2ter t-ey -a4e
attained reason* to be in -armony wit- -er/ #-is -armony o2 t-e
so0l* ta6en as a w-ole* is 4irt0e) b0t t-e 1arti,0lar trainin. in
res1e,t o2 1leas0re and 1ain* w-i,- leads yo0 always to -ate w-at
yo0 o0.-t to -ate* and lo4e w-at yo0 o0.-t to lo4e 2rom t-e
be.innin. o2 li2e to t-e end* may be se1arated o22) and* in my 4iew*
will be ri.-tly ,alled ed0,ation/
Cle/ I t-in6* Stran.er* t-at yo0 are ;0ite ri.-t in all t-at yo0
-a4e said and are sayin. abo0t ed0,ation/
At-/ I am .lad to -ear t-at yo0 a.ree wit- me) 2or* indeed* t-e
dis,i1line o2 1leas0re and 1ain w-i,-* w-en ri.-tly ordered* is a
1rin,i1le o2 ed0,ation* -as been o2ten rela:ed and ,orr01ted in
-0man li2e/ And t-e &ods* 1ityin. t-e toils w-i,- o0r ra,e is born
to 0nder.o* -a4e a11ointed -oly 2esti4als* w-erein men alternate
rest wit- labo0r) and -a4e .i4en t-em t-e +0ses and A1ollo* t-e leader
o2 t-e +0ses* and %ionys0s* to be ,om1anions in t-eir re4els* t-at
t-ey may im1ro4e t-eir ed0,ation by ta6in. 1art in t-e 2esti4als o2
t-e &ods* and wit- t-eir -el1/ I s-o0ld li6e to 6now w-et-er a
,ommon sayin. is in o0r o1inion tr0e to nat0re or not/ "or men say
t-at t-e yo0n. o2 all ,reat0res ,annot be ;0iet in t-eir bodies or
in t-eir 4oi,es) t-ey are always wantin. to mo4e and ,ry o0t) some
lea1in. and s6i11in.* and o4er2lowin. wit- s1orti4eness and deli.-t at
somet-in.* ot-ers 0tterin. all sorts o2 ,ries/ B0t* w-ereas t-e
animals -a4e no 1er,e1tion o2 order or disorder in t-eir mo4ements*
t-at is* o2 r-yt-m or -armony* as t-ey are ,alled* to 0s* t-e &ods*
w-o* as we say* -a4e been a11ointed to be o0r ,om1anions in t-e dan,e*
-a4e .i4en t-e 1leas0rable sense o2 -armony and r-yt-m) and so t-ey
stir 0s into li2e* and we 2ollow t-em* joinin. -ands to.et-er in
dan,es and son.s) and t-ese t-ey ,all ,-or0ses* w-i,- is a term
nat0rally e:1ressi4e o2 ,-eer20lness/ S-all we be.in* t-en* wit- t-e
a,6nowled.ment t-at ed0,ation is 2irst .i4en t-ro0.- A1ollo and t-e
+0ses3 W-at do yo0 say3
Cle/ I assent/
At-/ And t-e 0ned0,ated is -e w-o -as not been trained in t-e
,-or0s* and t-e ed0,ated is -e w-o -as been well trained3
Cle/ Certainly/
At-/ And t-e ,-or0s is made 01 o2 two 1arts* dan,e and son.3
Cle/ #r0e/
At-/ #-en -e w-o is well ed0,ated will be able to sin. and dan,e
well3
Cle/ I s011ose t-at -e will/
At-/ Let 0s see) w-at are we sayin.3
Cle/ W-at3
At-/ $e sin.s well and dan,es well) now m0st we add t-at -e sin.s
w-at is .ood and dan,es w-at is .ood3
Cle/ Let 0s ma6e t-e addition/
At-/ We will s011ose t-at -e 6nows t-e .ood to be .ood* and t-e
bad to be bad* and ma6es 0se o2 t-em a,,ordin.ly( w-i,- now is t-e
better trained in dan,in. and m0si,9-e w-o is able to mo4e -is body
and to 0se -is 4oi,e in w-at is 0nderstood to be t-e ri.-t manner* b0t
-as no deli.-t in .ood or -atred o2 e4il) or -e w-o is in,orre,t in
.est0re and 4oi,e* b0t is ri.-t in -is sense o2 1leas0re and 1ain* and
wel,omes w-at is .ood* and is o22ended at w-at is e4il3
Cle/ #-ere is a .reat di22eren,e* Stran.er* in t-e two 6inds o2
ed0,ation/
At-/ I2 we t-ree 6now w-at is .ood in son. and dan,e* t-en we
tr0ly 6now also w-o is ed0,ated and w-o is 0ned0,ated) b0t i2 not*
t-en we ,ertainly s-all not 6now w-erein lies t-e sa2e.0ard o2
ed0,ation* and w-et-er t-ere is any or not/
Cle/ #r0e/
At-/ Let 0s 2ollow t-e s,ent li6e -o0nds* and .o in 10rs0it o2
bea0ty o2 2i.0re* and melody* and son.* and dan,e) i2 t-ese es,a1e 0s*
t-ere will be no 0se in tal6in. abo0t tr0e ed0,ation* w-et-er $elleni,
or barbarian/
Cle/ 7es/
At-/ And w-at is bea0ty o2 2i.0re* or bea0ti20l melody3 W-en a manly
so0l is in tro0ble* and w-en a ,owardly so0l is in similar ,ase* are
t-ey li6ely to 0se t-e same 2i.0res and .est0res* or to .i4e 0tteran,e
to t-e same so0nds3
Cle/ $ow ,an t-ey* w-en t-e 4ery ,olo0rs o2 t-eir 2a,es di22er3
At-/ &ood* my 2riend) I may obser4e* -owe4er* in 1assin.* t-at in
m0si, t-ere ,ertainly are 2i.0res and t-ere are melodies( and m0si, is
,on,erned wit- -armony and r-yt-m* so t-at yo0 may s1ea6 o2 a melody
or 2i.0re -a4in. .ood r-yt-m or .ood -armony9t-e term is ,orre,t
eno0.-) b0t to s1ea6 meta1-ori,ally o2 a melody or 2i.0re -a4in. a
A.ood ,olo0r*A as t-e masters o2 ,-or0ses do* is not allowable*
alt-o0.- yo0 ,an s1ea6 o2 t-e melodies or 2i.0res o2 t-e bra4e and t-e
,oward* 1raisin. t-e one and ,ens0rin. t-e ot-er/ And not to be
tedio0s* let 0s say t-at t-e 2i.0res and melodies w-i,- are e:1ressi4e
o2 4irt0e o2 so0l or body* or o2 ima.es o2 4irt0e* are wit-o0t
e:,e1tion .ood* and t-ose w-i,- are e:1ressi4e o2 4i,e are t-e re4erse
o2 .ood/
Cle/ 7o0r s0..estion is e:,ellent) and let 0s answer t-at t-ese
t-in.s are so/
At-/ On,e more* are all o2 0s e;0ally deli.-ted wit- e4ery sort o2
dan,e3
Cle/ "ar ot-erwise/
At-/ W-at* t-en* leads 0s astray3 Are bea0ti20l t-in.s not t-e
same to 0s all* or are t-ey t-e same in t-emsel4es* b0t not in o0r
o1inion o2 t-em3 "or no one will admit t-at 2orms o2 4i,e in t-e dan,e
are more bea0ti20l t-an 2orms o2 4irt0e* or t-at -e -imsel2 deli.-ts
in t-e 2orms o2 4i,e* and ot-ers in a m0se o2 anot-er ,-ara,ter/ And
yet most 1ersons say* t-at t-e e:,ellen,e o2 m0si, is to .i4e 1leas0re
to o0r so0ls/ B0t t-is is intolerable and blas1-emo0s) t-ere is*
-owe4er* a m0,- more 1la0sible a,,o0nt o2 t-e del0sion/
Cle/ W-at3
At-/ #-e ada1tation o2 art to t-e ,-ara,ters o2 men/ C-ori,
mo4ements are imitations o2 manners o,,0rrin. in 4ario0s a,tions*
2ort0nes* dis1ositions9ea,- 1arti,0lar is imitated* and t-ose to
w-om t-e words* or son.s* or dan,es are s0ited* eit-er by nat0re or
-abit or bot-* ,annot -el1 2eelin. 1leas0re in t-em and a11la0din.
t-em* and ,allin. t-em bea0ti20l/ B0t t-ose w-ose nat0res* or ways* or
-abits are 0ns0ited to t-em* ,annot deli.-t in t-em or a11la0d t-em*
and t-ey ,all t-em base/ #-ere are ot-ers* a.ain* w-ose nat0res are
ri.-t and t-eir -abits wron.* or w-ose -abits are ri.-t and t-eir
nat0res wron.* and t-ey 1raise one t-in.* b0t are 1leased at
anot-er/ "or t-ey say t-at all t-ese imitations are 1leasant* b0t
not .ood/ And in t-e 1resen,e o2 t-ose w-om t-ey t-in6 wise* t-ey
are as-amed o2 dan,in. and sin.in. in t-e baser manner* or o2
deliberately lendin. any ,o0ntenan,e to s0,- 1ro,eedin.s) and yet*
t-ey -a4e a se,ret 1leas0re in t-em/
Cle/ 8ery tr0e/
At-/ And is any -arm done to t-e lo4er o2 4i,io0s dan,es or son.s*
or any .ood done to t-e a11ro4er o2 t-e o11osite sort o2 1leas0re3
Cle/ I t-in6 t-at t-ere is/
At-/ AI t-in6A is not t-e word* b0t I wo0ld say* rat-er* AI am
,ertain/A "or m0st t-ey not -a4e t-e same e22e,t as w-en a man
asso,iates wit- bad ,-ara,ters* w-om -e li6es and a11ro4es rat-er t-an
disli6es* and only ,ens0res 1lay20lly be,a0se -e -as a s0s1i,ion o2
-is own badness3 In t-at ,ase* -e w-o ta6es 1leas0re in t-em will
s0rely be,ome li6e t-ose in w-om -e ta6es 1leas0re* e4en t-o0.- -e
be as-amed to 1raise t-em/ And w-at .reater .ood or e4il ,an any
destiny e4er ma6e 0s 0nder.o3
Cle/ I 6now o2 none/
At-/ #-en in a ,ity w-i,- -as .ood laws* or in 20t0re a.es is to
-a4e t-em* bearin. in mind t-e instr0,tion and am0sement w-i,- are
.i4en by m0si,* ,an we s011ose t-at t-e 1oets are to be allowed to
tea,- in t-e dan,e anyt-in. w-i,- t-ey t-emsel4es li6e* in t-e way
o2 r-yt-m* or melody* or words* to t-e yo0n. ,-ildren o2 any
well9,onditioned 1arents3 Is t-e 1oet to train -is ,-or0ses as -e
1leases* wit-o0t re2eren,e to 4irt0e or 4i,e3
Cle/ #-at is s0rely ;0ite 0nreasonable* and is not to be t-o0.-t o2/
At-/ And yet -e may do t-is in almost any state wit- t-e e:,e1tion
o2 E.y1t/
Cle/ And w-at are t-e laws abo0t m0si, and dan,in. in E.y1t3
At-/ 7o0 will wonder w-en I tell yo0( Lon. a.o t-ey a11ear to -a4e
re,o.ni<ed t-e 4ery 1rin,i1le o2 w-i,- we are now s1ea6in.9t-at
t-eir yo0n. ,iti<ens m0st be -abit0ated to 2orms and strains o2
4irt0e/ #-ese t-ey 2i:ed* and e:-ibited t-e 1atterns o2 t-em in
t-eir tem1les) and no 1ainter or artist is allowed to inno4ate 01on
t-em* or to lea4e t-e traditional 2orms and in4ent new ones/ #o t-is
day* no alteration is allowed eit-er in t-ese arts* or in m0si, at
all/ And yo0 will 2ind t-at t-eir wor6s o2 art are 1ainted or
mo0lded in t-e same 2orms w-i,- t-ey -ad ten t-o0sand years
a.o)9t-is is literally tr0e and no e:a..eration9t-eir an,ient
1aintin.s and s,0l1t0res are not a w-it better or worse t-an t-e
wor6 o2 to9day* b0t are made wit- j0st t-e same s6ill/
Cle/ $ow e:traordinaryD
At-/ I s-o0ld rat-er say* $ow statesmanli6e* -ow wort-y o2 a
le.islatorD I 6now t-at ot-er t-in.s in E.y1t are nat so well/ B0t
w-at I am tellin. yo0 abo0t m0si, is tr0e and deser4in. o2
,onsideration* be,a0se s-owin. t-at a law.i4er may instit0te
melodies w-i,- -a4e a nat0ral tr0t- and ,orre,tness wit-o0t any 2ear
o2 2ail0re/ #o do t-is* -owe4er* m0st be t-e wor6 o2 &od* or o2 a
di4ine 1erson) in E.y1t t-ey -a4e a tradition t-at t-eir an,ient
,-ants w-i,- -a4e been 1reser4ed 2or so many a.es are t-e
,om1osition o2 t-e &oddess Isis/ And t-ere2ore* as I was sayin.* i2
a 1erson ,an only 2ind in any way t-e nat0ral melodies* -e may
,on2idently embody t-em in a 2i:ed and le.al 2orm/ "or t-e lo4e o2
no4elty w-i,- arises o0t o2 1leas0re in t-e new and weariness o2 t-e
old* -as not stren.t- eno0.- to ,orr01t t-e ,onse,rated son. and
dan,e* 0nder t-e 1lea t-at t-ey -a4e be,ome anti;0ated/ At any rate*
t-ey are 2ar 2rom bein. ,orr01ted in E.y1t/
Cle/ 7o0r ar.0ments seem to 1ro4e yo0r 1oint/
At-/ +ay we not ,on2idently say t-at t-e tr0e 0se o2 m0si, and o2
,-oral 2esti4ities is as 2ollows( We rejoi,e w-en we t-in6 t-at we
1ros1er* and a.ain we t-in6 t-at we 1ros1er w-en we rejoi,e3
Cle/ E:a,tly/
At-/ And w-en rejoi,in. in o0r .ood 2ort0ne* we are 0nable to be
still3
Cle/ #r0e/
At-/ O0r yo0n. men brea6 2ort- into dan,in. and sin.in.* and we
w-o are t-eir elders deem t-at we are 20l2illin. o0r 1art in li2e w-en
we loo6 on at t-em/ $a4in. lost o0r a.ility* we deli.-t in t-eir
s1orts and merry9ma6in.* be,a0se we lo4e to t-in6 o2 o0r 2ormer
sel4es) and .ladly instit0te ,ontests 2or t-ose w-o are able to awa6en
in 0s t-e memory o2 o0r yo0t-/
Cle/ 8ery tr0e/
At-/ Is it alto.et-er 0nmeanin. to say* as t-e ,ommon 1eo1le do
abo0t 2esti4als* t-at -e s-o0ld be adj0d.ed t-e wisest o2 men* and t-e
winner o2 t-e 1alm* w-o .i4es 0s t-e .reatest amo0nt o2 1leas0re and
mirt-3 "or on s0,- o,,asions* and w-en mirt- is t-e order o2 t-e
day* o0.-t not -e to be -ono0red most* and* as I was sayin.* bear
t-e 1alm* w-o .i4es most mirt- to t-e .reatest n0mber3 !ow is t-is a
tr0e way o2 s1ea6in. or o2 a,tin.3
Cle/ Possibly/
At-/ B0t* my dear 2riend* let 0s distin.0is- between di22erent
,ases* and not be -asty in 2ormin. a j0d.ment( One way o2
,onsiderin. t-e ;0estion will be to ima.ine a 2esti4al at w-i,-
t-ere are entertainments o2 all sorts* in,l0din. .ymnasti,* m0si,al*
and e;0estrian ,ontests( t-e ,iti<ens are assembled) 1ri<es are
o22ered* and 1ro,lamation is made t-at any one w-o li6es may enter t-e
lists* and t-at -e is to bear t-e 1alm w-o .i4es t-e most 1leas0re
to t-e s1e,tators9t-ere is to be no re.0lation abo0t t-e manner -ow)
b0t -e w-o is most s0,,ess20l in .i4in. 1leas0re is to be ,rowned
4i,tor* and deemed to be t-e 1leasantest o2 t-e ,andidates( W-at is
li6ely to be t-e res0lt o2 s0,- a 1ro,lamation3
Cle/ In w-at res1e,t3
At-/ #-ere wo0ld be 4ario0s e:-ibitions( one man* li6e $omer* will
e:-ibit a r-a1sody* anot-er a 1er2orman,e on t-e l0te) one will -a4e a
tra.edy* and anot-er a ,omedy/ !or wo0ld t-ere be anyt-in. astonis-in.
in some one ima.inin. t-at -e ,o0ld .ain t-e 1ri<e by e:-ibitin. a
1011et9s-ow/ S011ose t-ese ,om1etitors to meet* and not t-ese only*
b0t inn0merable ot-ers as well ,an yo0 tell me w-o o0.-t to be t-e
4i,tor3
Cle/ I do not see -ow any one ,an answer yo0* or 1retend to 6now*
0nless -e -as -eard wit- -is own ears t-e se4eral ,om1etitors) t-e
;0estion is abs0rd/
At-/ Well* t-en* i2 neit-er o2 yo0 ,an answer* s-all I answer t-is
;0estion w-i,- yo0 deem so abs0rd3
Cle/ By all means/
At-/ I2 4ery small ,-ildren are to determine t-e ;0estion* t-ey will
de,ide 2or t-e 1011et s-ow/
Cle/ O2 ,o0rse/
At-/ #-e older ,-ildren will be ad4o,ates o2 ,omedy) ed0,ated women*
and yo0n. men* and 1eo1le in .eneral* will 2a4o0r tra.edy/
Cle/ 8ery li6ely/
At-/ And I belie4e t-at we old men wo0ld -a4e t-e .reatest
1leas0re in -earin. a r-a1sodist re,ite well t-e Iliad and Odyssey* or
one o2 t-e $esiodi, 1oems* and wo0ld award t-e 4i,tory to -im/ B0t*
w-o wo0ld really be t-e 4i,tor39t-at is t-e ;0estion/
Cle/ 7es/
At-/ Clearly yo0 and I will -a4e to de,lare t-at t-ose w-om we old
men adj0d.e 4i,tors o0.-t to win) 2or o0r ways are 2ar and away better
t-an any w-i,- at 1resent e:ist anyw-ere in t-e world/
Cle/ Certainly/
At-/ #-0s 2ar I too s-o0ld a.ree wit- t-e many* t-at t-e
e:,ellen,e o2 m0si, is to be meas0red by 1leas0re/ B0t t-e 1leas0re
m0st not be t-at o2 ,-an,e 1ersons) t-e 2airest m0si, is t-at w-i,-
deli.-ts t-e best and best ed0,ated* and es1e,ially t-at w-i,-
deli.-ts t-e one man w-o is 1re9eminent in 4irt0e and ed0,ation/ And
t-ere2ore t-e j0d.es m0st be men o2 ,-ara,ter* 2or t-ey will re;0ire
bot- wisdom and ,o0ra.e) t-e tr0e j0d.e m0st not draw -is
ins1iration 2rom t-e t-eatre* nor o0.-t -e to be 0nner4ed by t-e
,lamo0r o2 t-e many and -is own in,a1a,ity) nor a.ain* 6nowin. t-e
tr0t-* o0.-t -e t-ro0.- ,owardi,e and 0nmanliness ,arelessly to
deli4er a lyin. j0d.ment* wit- t-e 4ery same li1s w-i,- -a4e j0st
a11ealed to t-e &ods be2ore -e j0d.ed/ $e is sittin. not as t-e
dis,i1le o2 t-e t-eatre* b0t* in -is 1ro1er 1la,e* as t-eir
instr0,tor* and -e o0.-t to be t-e enemy o2 all 1anderin. to t-e
1leas0re o2 t-e s1e,tators/ #-e an,ient and ,ommon ,0stom o2 $ellas*
w-i,- still 1re4ails in Italy and Si,ily* did ,ertainly lea4e t-e
j0d.ment to t-e body o2 s1e,tators* w-o determined t-e 4i,tor by
s-ow o2 -ands/ B0t t-is ,0stom -as been t-e destr0,tion o2 t-e
1oets) 2or t-ey are now in t-e -abit o2 ,om1osin. wit- a 4iew to
1lease t-e bad taste o2 t-eir j0d.es* and t-e res0lt is t-at t-e
s1e,tators instr0,t t-emsel4es)9and also it -as been t-e r0in o2 t-e
t-eatre) t-ey o0.-t to be -a4in. ,-ara,ters 10t be2ore t-em better
t-an t-eir own* and so re,ei4in. a -i.-er 1leas0re* b0t now by t-eir
own a,t t-e o11osite res0lt 2ollows/ W-at in2eren,e is to be drawn
2rom all t-is3 S-all I tell yo03
Cle/ W-at3
At-/ #-e in2eren,e at w-i,- we arri4e 2or t-e t-ird or 2o0rt- time
is* t-at ed0,ation is t-e ,onstrainin. and dire,tin. o2 yo0t-
towards t-at ri.-t reason* w-i,- t-e law a22irms* and w-i,- t-e
e:1erien,e o2 t-e eldest and best -as a.reed to be tr0ly ri.-t/ In
order* t-en* t-at t-e so0l o2 t-e ,-ild may not be -abit0ated to
2eel joy and sorrow in a manner at 4arian,e wit- t-e law* and t-ose
w-o obey t-e law* b0t may rat-er 2ollow t-e law and rejoi,e and sorrow
at t-e same t-in.s as t-e a.ed9in order* I say* to 1rod0,e t-is
e22e,t* ,-ants a11ear to -a4e been in4ented* w-i,- really en,-ant* and
are desi.ned to im1lant t-at -armony o2 w-i,- we s1ea6/ And* be,a0se
t-e mind o2 t-e ,-ild is in,a1able o2 end0rin. serio0s trainin.*
t-ey are ,alled 1lays and son.s* and are 1er2ormed in 1lay) j0st as
w-en men are si,6 and ailin. in t-eir bodies* t-eir attendants .i4e
t-em w-olesome diet in 1leasant meats and drin6s* b0t 0nw-olesome diet
in disa.reeable t-in.s* in order t-at t-ey may learn* as t-ey o0.-t*
to li6e t-e one* and to disli6e t-e ot-er/ And similarly t-e tr0e
le.islator will 1ers0ade* and* i2 -e ,annot 1ers0ade* will ,om1el
t-e 1oet to e:1ress* as -e o0.-t* by 2air and noble words* in -is
r-yt-ms* t-e 2i.0res* and in -is melodies* t-e m0si, o2 tem1erate
and bra4e and in e4ery way .ood men/
Cle/ B0t do yo0 really ima.ine* Stran.er* t-at t-is is t-e way in
w-i,- 1oets .enerally ,om1ose in States at t-e 1resent day3 As 2ar
as I ,an obser4e* e:,e1t amon. 0s and amon. t-e La,edaemonians*
t-ere are no re.0lations li6e t-ose o2 w-i,- yo0 s1ea6) in ot-er
1la,es no4elties are always bein. introd0,ed in dan,in. and in
m0si,* .enerally not 0nder t-e a0t-ority o2 any law* b0t at t-e
insti.ation o2 lawless 1leas0res) and t-ese 1leas0res are so 2ar
2rom bein. t-e same* as yo0 des,ribe t-e E.y1tian to be* or -a4in. t-e
same 1rin,i1les* t-at t-ey are ne4er t-e same/
At-/ +ost tr0e* Cleinias) and I daresay t-at I may -a4e e:1ressed
mysel2 obs,0rely* and so led yo0 to ima.ine t-at I was s1ea6in. o2
some really e:istin. state o2 t-in.s* w-ereas I was only sayin. w-at
re.0lations I wo0ld li6e to -a4e abo0t m0si,) and -en,e t-ere o,,0rred
a misa11re-ension on yo0r 1art/ "or w-en e4ils are 2ar .one and
irremediable* t-e tas6 o2 ,ens0rin. t-em is ne4er 1leasant* alt-o0.-
at times ne,essary/ B0t as we do not really di22er* will yo0 let me
as6 yo0 w-et-er yo0 ,onsider s0,- instit0tions to be more 1re4alent
amon. t-e Cretans and La,edaemonians t-an amon. t-e ot-er $ellenes3
Cle/ Certainly t-ey are/
At-/ And i2 t-ey were e:tended to t-e ot-er $ellenes* wo0ld it be an
im1ro4ement on t-e 1resent state o2 t-in.s3
Cle/ A 4ery .reat im1ro4ement* i2 t-e ,0stoms w-i,- 1re4ail amon.
t-em were s0,- as 1re4ail amon. 0s and t-e La,edaemonians* and s0,- as
yo0 were j0st now sayin. o0.-t to 1re4ail/
At-/ Let 0s see w-et-er we 0nderstand one anot-er(9Are not t-e
1rin,i1les o2 ed0,ation and m0si, w-i,- 1re4ail amon. yo0 as
2ollows( yo0 ,om1el yo0r 1oets to say t-at t-e .ood man* i2 -e be
tem1erate and j0st* is 2ort0nate and -a11y) and t-is w-et-er -e be
.reat and stron. or small and wea6* and w-et-er -e be ri,- or 1oor)
and* on t-e ot-er -and* i2 -e -a4e a wealt- 1assin. t-at o2 Cinyras or
+idas* and be 0nj0st* -e is wret,-ed and li4es in misery3 As t-e
1oet says* and wit- tr0t-( I sin. not* I ,are not abo0t -im w-o
a,,om1lis-es all noble t-in.s* not -a4in. j0sti,e) let -im w-o
Adraws near and stret,-es o0t -is -and a.ainst -is enemies be a j0st
man/A B0t i2 -e be 0nj0st* I wo0ld not -a4e -im Aloo6 ,almly 01on
bloody deat-*A nor As0r1ass in swi2tness t-e #-ra,ian BoreasA) and let
no ot-er t-in. t-at is ,alled .ood e4er be -is/ "or t-e .oods o2 w-i,-
t-e many s1ea6 are not really .ood( 2irst in t-e ,atalo.0e is 1la,ed
-ealt-* bea0ty ne:t* wealt- t-ird) and t-en inn0merable ot-ers* as 2or
e:am1le to -a4e a 6een eye or a ;0i,6 ear* and in .eneral to -a4e
all t-e senses 1er2e,t) or* a.ain* to be a tyrant and do as yo0
li6e) and t-e 2inal ,ons0mmation o2 -a11iness is to -a4e a,;0ired
all t-ese t-in.s* and w-en yo0 -a4e a,;0ired t-em to be,ome at on,e
immortal/ B0t yo0 and I say* t-at w-ile to t-e j0st and -oly all t-ese
t-in.s are t-e best o2 1ossessions* to t-e 0nj0st t-ey are all*
in,l0din. e4en -ealt-* t-e .reatest o2 e4ils/ "or in tr0t-* to -a4e
si.-t* and -earin.* and t-e 0se o2 t-e senses* or to li4e at all
wit-o0t j0sti,e and 4irt0e* e4en t-o0.- a man be ri,- in all t-e
so9,alled .oods o2 2ort0ne* is t-e .reatest o2 e4ils* i2 li2e be
immortal) b0t not so .reat* i2 t-e bad man li4es only a 4ery s-ort
time/ #-ese are t-e tr0t-s w-i,-* i2 I am not mista6en* yo0 will
1ers0ade or ,om1el yo0r 1oets to 0tter wit- s0itable a,,om1animents o2
-armony and r-yt-m* and in t-ese t-ey m0st train 01 yo0r yo0t-/ Am I
not ri.-t3 "or I 1lainly de,lare t-at e4ils as t-ey are termed are
.oods to t-e 0nj0st* and only e4ils to t-e j0st* and t-at .oods are
tr0ly .ood to t-e .ood* b0t e4il to t-e e4il/ Let me as6 a.ain* Are
yo0 and I a.reed abo0t t-is3
Cle/ I t-in6 t-at we 1artly a.ree and 1artly do not/
At-/ W-en a man -as -ealt- and wealt- and a tyranny w-i,- lasts* and
w-en -e is 1reeminent in stren.t- and ,o0ra.e* and -as t-e .i2t o2
immortality* and none o2 t-e so9,alled e4ils w-i,- ,o0nter9balan,e
t-ese .oods* b0t only t-e inj0sti,e and insolen,e o2 -is own nat0re9o2
s0,- an one yo0 are* I s0s1e,t* 0nwillin. to belie4e t-at -e is
miserable rat-er t-an -a11y/
Cle/ #-at is ;0ite tr0e/
At-/ On,e more( S011ose t-at -e be 4aliant and stron.* and
-andsome and ri,-* and does t-ro0.-o0t -is w-ole li2e w-ate4er -e
li6es* still* i2 -e be 0nri.-teo0s and insolent* wo0ld not bot- o2 yo0
a.ree t-at -e will o2 ne,essity li4e basely3 7o0 will s0rely .rant
so m0,-3
Cle/ Certainly/
At-/ And an e4il li2e too3
Cle/ I am not e;0ally dis1osed to .rant t-at/
At-/ Will -e not li4e 1ain20lly and to -is own disad4anta.e3
Cle/ $ow ,an I 1ossibly say so3
At-/ $owD #-en may $ea4en ma6e 0s to be o2 one mind* 2or now we
are o2 two/ #o me* dear Cleinias* t-e tr0t- o2 w-at I am sayin. is
as 1lain as t-e 2a,t t-at Crete is an island/ And* i2 I were a
law.i4er* I wo0ld try to ma6e t-e 1oets and all t-e ,iti<ens s1ea6
in t-is strain* and I wo0ld in2li,t t-e -ea4iest 1enalties on any
one in all t-e land w-o s-o0ld dare to say t-at t-ere are bad men
w-o lead 1leasant li4es* or t-at t-e 1ro2itable and .ain20l is one
t-in.* and t-e j0st anot-er) and t-ere are many ot-er matters abo0t
w-i,- I s-o0ld ma6e my ,iti<ens s1ea6 in a manner di22erent 2rom t-e
Cretans and La,edaemonians o2 t-is a.e* and I may say* indeed* 2rom
t-e world in .eneral/ "or tell me* my .ood 2riends* by 5e0s and A1ollo
tell me* i2 I were to as6 t-ese same &ods w-o were yo0r le.islators9Is
not t-e most j0st li2e also t-e 1leasantest3 or are t-ere two li4es*
one o2 w-i,- is t-e j0stest and t-e ot-er t-e 1leasantest39and t-ey
were to re1ly t-at t-ere are two) and t-ere01on I 1ro,eeded to as6*
>t-at wo0ld be t-e ri.-t way o2 10rs0in. t-e en;0iry?* W-i,- are t-e
-a11ier9t-ose w-o lead t-e j0stest* or t-ose w-o lead t-e
1leasantest li2e3 and t-ey re1lied* #-ose w-o lead t-e
1leasantest9t-at wo0ld be a 4ery stran.e answer* w-i,- I s-o0ld not
li6e to 10t into t-e mo0t- o2 t-e &ods/ #-e words will ,ome wit-
more 1ro1riety 2rom t-e li1s o2 2at-ers and le.islators* and t-ere2ore
I will re1eat my 2ormer ;0estions to one o2 t-em* and s011ose -im to
say a.ain t-at -e w-o leads t-e 1leasantest li2e is t-e -a11iest/
And to t-at I rejoin(9O my 2at-er* did yo0 not wis- me to li4e as
-a11ily as 1ossible3 And yet yo0 also ne4er ,eased tellin. me t-at I
s-o0ld li4e as j0stly as 1ossible/ !ow* -ere t-e .i4er o2 t-e r0le*
w-et-er -e be le.islator or 2at-er* will be in a dilemma* and will
in 4ain endea4o0r to be ,onsistent wit- -imsel2/ B0t i2 -e were to
de,lare t-at t-e j0stest li2e is also t-e -a11iest* e4ery one
-earin. -im wo0ld en;0ire* i2 I am not mista6en* w-at is t-at .ood and
noble 1rin,i1le in li2e w-i,- t-e law a11ro4es* and w-i,- is
s01erior to 1leas0re/ "or w-at .ood ,an t-e j0st man -a4e w-i,- is
se1arated 2rom 1leas0re3 S-all we say t-at .lory and 2ame* ,omin. 2rom
&ods and men* t-o0.- .ood and noble* are ne4ert-eless 0n1leasant*
and in2amy 1leasant3 Certainly not* sweet le.islator/ Or s-all we
say t-at t-e not9doin. o2 wron. and t-ere bein. no wron. done is
.ood and -ono0rable* alt-o0.- t-ere is no 1leas0re in it* and t-at t-e
doin. wron. is 1leasant* b0t e4il and base3
Cle/ Im1ossible/
At-/ #-e 4iew w-i,- identi2ies t-e 1leasant and t-e 1leasant and t-e
j0st and t-e .ood and t-e noble -as an e:,ellent moral and reli.io0s
tenden,y/ And t-e o11osite 4iew is most at 4arian,e wit- t-e desi.ns
o2 t-e le.islator* and is* in -is o1inion* in2amo0s) 2or no one* i2 -e
,an -el1* will be 1ers0aded to do t-at w-i,- .i4es -im more 1ain
t-an 1leas0re/ B0t as distant 1ros1e,ts are a1t to ma6e 0s di<<y*
es1e,ially in ,-ild-ood* t-e le.islator will try to 10r.e away t-e
dar6ness and e:-ibit t-e tr0t-) -e will 1ers0ade t-e ,iti<ens* in some
way or ot-er* by ,0stoms and 1raises and words* t-at j0st and 0nj0st
are s-adows only* and t-at inj0sti,e* w-i,- seems o11osed to
j0sti,e* w-en ,ontem1lated by t-e 0nj0st and e4il man a11ears 1leasant
and t-e j0st most 0n1leasant) b0t t-at 2rom t-e j0st man=s 1oint o2
4iew* t-e 4ery o11osite is t-e a11earan,e o2 bot- o2 t-em/
Cle/ #r0e/
At-/ And w-i,- may be s011osed to be t-e tr0er j0d.ment9t-at o2
t-e in2erior or o2 t-e better so0l3
Cle/ S0rely* t-at o2 t-e better so0l/
At-/ #-en t-e 0nj0st li2e m0st not only be more base and de1ra4ed*
b0t also more 0n1leasant t-an t-e j0st and -oly li2e3
Cle/ #-at seems to be im1lied in t-e 1resent ar.0ment/
At-/ And e4en s011osin. t-is were ot-erwise* and not as t-e ar.0ment
-as 1ro4en* still t-e law.i4er* w-o is wort- anyt-in.* i2 -e e4er
4ent0res to tell a lie to t-e yo0n. 2or t-eir .ood* ,o0ld not in4ent a
more 0se20l lie t-an t-is* or one w-i,- will -a4e a better e22e,t in
ma6in. t-em do w-at is ri.-t* not on ,om10lsion b0t 4ol0ntarily/
Cle/ #r0t-* Stran.er* is a noble t-in. and a lastin.* b0t a t-in. o2
w-i,- men are -ard to be 1ers0aded/
At-/ And yet t-e story o2 t-e Sidonian Cadm0s* w-i,- is so
im1robable* -as been readily belie4ed* and also inn0merable ot-er
tales/
Cle/ W-at is t-at story3
At-/ #-e story o2 armed men s1rin.in. 01 a2ter t-e sowin. o2
teet-* w-i,- t-e le.islator may ta6e as a 1roo2 t-at -e ,an 1ers0ade
t-e minds o2 t-e yo0n. o2 anyt-in.) so t-at -e -as only to re2le,t and
2ind o0t w-at belie2 will be o2 t-e .reatest 10bli, ad4anta.e* and
t-en 0se all -is e22orts to ma6e t-e w-ole ,omm0nity 0tter one and t-e
same word in t-eir son.s and tales and dis,o0rses all t-eir li2e lon./
B0t i2 yo0 do not a.ree wit- me* t-ere is no reason w-y yo0 s-o0ld not
ar.0e on t-e ot-er side/
Cle/ I do not see t-at any ar.0ment ,an 2airly be raised by eit-er
o2 0s a.ainst w-at yo0 are now sayin./
At-/ #-e ne:t s0..estion w-i,- I -a4e to o22er is* t-at all o0r
t-ree ,-or0ses s-all sin. to t-e yo0n. and tender so0ls o2 ,-ildren*
re,itin. in t-eir strains all t-e noble t-o0.-ts o2 w-i,- we -a4e
already s1o6en* or are abo0t to s1ea6) and t-e s0m o2 t-em s-all be*
t-at t-e li2e w-i,- is by t-e &ods deemed to be t-e -a11iest is also
t-e best)9we s-all a22irm t-is to be a most ,ertain tr0t-) and t-e
minds o2 o0r yo0n. dis,i1les will be more li6ely to re,ei4e t-ese
words o2 o0rs t-an any ot-ers w-i,- we mi.-t address to t-em/
Cle/ I assent to w-at yo0 say/
At-/ "irst will enter in t-eir nat0ral order t-e sa,red ,-oir
,om1osed o2 ,-ildren* w-i,- is to sin. l0stily t-e -ea4en9ta0.-t lay
to t-e w-ole ,ity/ !e:t will 2ollow t-e ,-oir o2 yo0n. men 0nder t-e
a.e o2 t-irty* w-o will ,all 01on t-e &od Paean to testi2y to t-e
tr0t- o2 t-eir words* and will 1ray -im to be .ra,io0s to t-e yo0t-
and to t0rn t-eir -earts/ #-irdly* t-e ,-oir o2 elder men* w-o are
2rom t-irty to si:ty years o2 a.e* will also sin./ #-ere remain
t-ose w-o are too old to sin.* and t-ey will tell stories*
ill0stratin. t-e same 4irt0es* as wit- t-e 4oi,e o2 an ora,le/
Cle/ W-o are t-ose w-o ,om1ose t-e t-ird ,-oir* Stran.er3 2or I do
not ,learly 0nderstand w-at yo0 mean to say abo0t t-em/
At-/ And yet almost all t-at I -a4e been sayin. -as said wit- a 4iew
to t-em/
Cle/ Will yo0 try to be a little 1lainer3
At-/ I was s1ea6in. at t-e ,ommen,ement o2 o0r dis,o0rse* as yo0
will remember* o2 t-e 2iery nat0re o2 yo0n. ,reat0res( I said t-at
t-ey were 0nable to 6ee1 ;0iet eit-er in limb or 4oi,e* and t-at
t-ey ,alled o0t and j0m1ed abo0t in a disorderly manner) and t-at no
ot-er animal attained to any 1er,e1tion o2 order* b0t man only/ !ow
t-e order o2 motion is ,alled r-yt-m* and t-e order o2 t-e 4oi,e* in
w-i,- -i.- and low are d0ly min.led* is ,alled -armony) and bot-
to.et-er are termed ,-ori, son./ And I said t-at t-e &ods -ad 1ity
on 0s* and .a4e 0s A1ollo and t-e +0ses to be o0r 1lay2ellows and
leaders in t-e dan,e) and %ionys0s* as I dare say t-at yo0 will
remember* was t-e t-ird/
Cle/ I ;0ite remember/
At-/ #-0s 2ar I -a4e s1o6en o2 t-e ,-or0s o2 A1ollo and t-e +0ses*
and I -a4e still to s1ea6 o2 t-e remainin. ,-or0s* w-i,- is t-at o2
%ionys0s/
Cle/ $ow is t-at arran.ed3 #-ere is somet-in. stran.e* at any rate
on 2irst -earin.* in a %ionysia, ,-or0s o2 old men* i2 yo0 really mean
t-at t-ose w-o are abo4e t-irty* and may be 2i2ty* or 2rom 2i2ty to
si:ty years o2 a.e* are to dan,e in -is -ono0r/
At-/ 8ery tr0e) and t-ere2ore it m0st be s-own t-at t-ere is .ood
reason 2or t-e 1ro1osal/
Cle/ Certainly/
At-/ Are we a.reed t-0s 2ar3
Cle/ Abo0t w-at3
At-/ #-at e4ery man and boy* sla4e and 2ree* bot- se:es* and t-e
w-ole ,ity* s-o0ld ne4er ,ease ,-armin. t-emsel4es wit- t-e strains o2
w-i,- we -a4e s1o6en) and t-at t-ere s-o0ld be e4ery sort o2 ,-an.e
and 4ariation o2 t-em in order to ta6e away t-e e22e,t o2 sameness* so
t-at t-e sin.ers may always re,ei4e 1leas0re 2rom t-eir -ymns* and may
ne4er weary o2 t-em3
Cle/ E4ery one will a.ree/
At-/ W-ere* t-en* will t-at best 1art o2 o0r ,ity w-i,-* by reason
o2 a.e and intelli.en,e* -as t-e .reatest in2l0en,e* sin. t-ese
2airest o2 strains* w-i,- are to do so m0,- .ood3 S-all we be so
2oolis- as to let t-em o22 w-o wo0ld .i4e 0s t-e most bea0ti20l and
also t-e most 0se20l o2 son.s3
Cle/ B0t* says t-e ar.0ment* we ,annot let t-em o22/
At-/ #-en -ow ,an we ,arry o0t o0r 10r1ose wit- de,or0m3 Will t-is
be t-e way3
Cle/ W-at3
At-/ W-en a man is ad4an,in. in years* -e is a2raid and rel0,tant to
sin.)9-e -as no 1leas0re in -is own 1er2orman,es) and i2 ,om10lsion is
0sed* -e will be more and more as-amed* t-e older and more dis,reet -e
.rows)9is not t-is tr0e3
Cle/ Certainly/
At-/ Well* and will -e not be yet more as-amed i2 -e -as to stand 01
and sin. in t-e t-eatre to a mi:ed a0dien,e39and i2 moreo4er w-en -e
is re;0ired to do so* li6e t-e ot-er ,-oirs w-o ,ontend 2or 1ri<es*
and -a4e been trained 0nder a sin.in. master* -e is 1in,-ed and
-0n.ry* -e will ,ertainly -a4e a 2eelin. o2 s-ame and dis,om2ort w-i,-
will ma6e -im 4ery 0nwillin. to e:-ibit/
Cle/ !o do0bt/
At-/ $ow* t-en* s-all we reass0re -im* and .et -im to sin.3 S-all we
be.in by ena,tin. t-at boys s-all not taste wine at all 0ntil t-ey are
ei.-teen years o2 a.e) we will tell t-em t-at 2ire m0st not be
1o0red 01on 2ire* w-et-er in t-e body or in t-e so0l* 0ntil t-ey be.in
to .o to wor69t-is is a 1re,a0tion w-i,- -as to be ta6en a.ainst t-e
e:,itableness o2 yo0t-)9a2terwards t-ey may taste wine in moderation
01 to t-e a.e o2 t-irty* b0t w-ile a man is yo0n. -e s-o0ld abstain
alto.et-er 2rom into:i,ation and 2rom e:,ess o2 wine) w-en* at len.t-*
-e -as rea,-ed 2orty years* a2ter dinner at a 10bli, mess* -e may
in4ite not only t-e ot-er &ods* b0t %ionys0s abo4e all* to t-e mystery
and 2esti4ity o2 t-e elder men* ma6in. 0se o2 t-e wine w-i,- -e -as
.i4en men to li.-ten t-e so0rness o2 old a.e) t-at in a.e we may renew
o0r yo0t-* and 2or.et o0r sorrows) and also in order t-at t-e nat0re
o2 t-e so0l* li6e iron melted in t-e 2ire* may be,ome so2ter and so
more im1ressible/ In t-e 2irst 1la,e* will not any one w-o is t-0s
mellowed be more ready and less as-amed to sin.9I do not say be2ore
a lar.e a0dien,e* b0t be2ore a moderate ,om1any) nor yet amon.
stran.ers* b0t amon. -is 2amiliars* and* as we -a4e o2ten said* to
,-ant* and to en,-ant3
Cle/ $e will be 2ar more ready/
At-/ #-ere will be no im1ro1riety in o0r 0sin. s0,- a met-od o2
1ers0adin. t-em to join wit- 0s in son./
Cle/ !one at all/
At-/ And w-at strain will t-ey sin.* and w-at m0se will t-ey -ymn3
#-e strain s-o0ld ,learly be one s0itable to t-em/
Cle/ Certainly/
At-/ And w-at strain is s0itable 2or -eroes3 S-all t-ey sin. a
,-ori, strain3
Cle/ #r0ly* Stran.er* we o2 Crete and La,edaemon 6now no strain
ot-er t-an t-at w-i,- we -a4e learnt and been a,,0stomed to sin. in
o0r ,-or0s/
At-/ I dare say) 2or yo0 -a4e ne4er a,;0ired t-e 6nowled.e o2 t-e
most bea0ti20l 6ind o2 son.* in yo0r military way o2 li2e* w-i,- is
modelled a2ter t-e ,am1* and is not li6e t-at o2 dwellers in ,ities)
and yo0 -a4e yo0r yo0n. men -erdin. and 2eedin. to.et-er li6e yo0n.
,olts/ !o one ta6es -is own indi4id0al ,olt and dra.s -im away 2rom
-is 2ellows a.ainst -is will* ra.in. and 2oamin.* and .i4es -im a
.room to attend to -im alone* and trains and r0bs -im down
1ri4ately* and .i4es -im t-e ;0alities in ed0,ation w-i,- will ma6e
-im not only a .ood soldier* b0t also a .o4ernor o2 a state and o2
,ities/ S0,- an one* as we said at 2irst* wo0ld be a .reater warrior
t-an -e o2 w-om #yrtae0s sin.s) and -e wo0ld -ono0r ,o0ra.e
e4eryw-ere* b0t always as t-e 2o0rt-* and not as t-e 2irst 1art o2
4irt0e* eit-er in indi4id0als or states/
Cle/ On,e more* Stran.er* I m0st ,om1lain t-at yo0 de1re,iate o0r
law.i4ers/
At-/ !ot intentionally* i2 at all* my .ood 2riend) b0t w-it-er t-e
ar.0ment leads* t-it-er let 0s 2ollow) 2or i2 t-ere be indeed some
strain o2 son. more bea0ti20l t-an t-at o2 t-e ,-or0ses or t-e
10bli, t-eatres* I s-o0ld li6e to im1art it to t-ose w-o* as we say*
are as-amed o2 t-ese* and want to -a4e t-e best/
Cle/ Certainly/
At-/ W-en t-in.s -a4e an a,,om1anyin. ,-arm* eit-er t-e best t-in.
in t-em is t-is 4ery ,-arm* or t-ere is some ri.-tness or 0tility
1ossessed by t-em)92or e:am1le* I s-o0ld say t-at eatin. and drin6in.*
and t-e 0se o2 2ood in .eneral* -a4e an a,,om1anyin. ,-arm w-i,- we
,all 1leas0re) b0t t-at t-is ri.-tness and 0tility is j0st t-e
-ealt-20lness o2 t-e t-in.s ser4ed 01 to 0s* w-i,- is t-eir tr0e
ri.-tness/
Cle/ J0st so/
At-/ #-0s* too* I s-o0ld say t-at learnin. -as a ,ertain
a,,om1anyin. ,-arm w-i,- is t-e 1leas0re) b0t t-at t-e ri.-t and t-e
1ro2itable* t-e .ood and t-e noble* are ;0alities w-i,- t-e tr0t-
.i4es to it/
Cle/ E:a,tly/
At-/ And so in t-e imitati4e arts9i2 t-ey s0,,eed in ma6in.
li6enesses* and are a,,om1anied by 1leas0re* may not t-eir wor6s be
said to -a4e a ,-arm3
Cle/ 7es/
At-/ B0t e;0al 1ro1ortions* w-et-er o2 ;0ality or ;0antity* and
not 1leas0re* s1ea6in. .enerally* wo0ld .i4e t-em tr0t- or ri.-tness/
Cle/ 7es/
At-/ #-en t-at only ,an be ri.-tly j0d.ed by t-e standard o2
1leas0re* w-i,- ma6es or 20rnis-es no 0tility or tr0t- or li6eness*
nor on t-e ot-er -and is 1rod0,ti4e o2 any -0rt20l ;0ality* b0t e:ists
solely 2or t-e sa6e o2 t-e a,,om1anyin. ,-arm) and t-e term A1leas0reA
is most a11ro1riately a11lied to it w-en t-ese ot-er ;0alities are
absent/
Cle/ 7o0 are s1ea6in. o2 -armless 1leas0re* are yo0 not3
At-/ 7es) and t-is I term am0sement* w-en doin. neit-er -arm nor
.ood in any de.ree wort- s1ea6in. o2/
Cle/ 8ery tr0e/
At-/ #-en* i2 s0,- be o0r 1rin,i1les* we m0st assert t-at
imitation is not to be j0d.ed o2 by 1leas0re and 2alse o1inion) and
t-is is tr0e o2 all e;0ality* 2or t-e e;0al is not e;0al or t-e
symmetri,al symmetri,al* be,a0se somebody t-in6s or li6es somet-in.*
b0t t-ey are to be j0d.ed o2 by t-e standard o2 tr0t-* and by no ot-er
w-ate4er/
Cle/ @0ite tr0e/
At-/ %o we not re.ard all m0si, as re1resentati4e and imitati4e3
Cle/ Certainly/
At-/ #-en* w-en any one says t-at m0si, is to be j0d.ed o2 by
1leas0re* -is do,trine ,annot be admitted) and i2 t-ere be any m0si,
o2 w-i,- 1leas0re is t-e ,riterion* s0,- m0si, is not to be so0.-t o0t
or deemed to -a4e any real e:,ellen,e* b0t only t-at ot-er 6ind o2
m0si, w-i,- is an imitation o2 t-e .ood/
Cle/ 8ery tr0e/
At-/ And t-ose w-o see6 2or t-e best 6ind o2 son. and m0si, o0.-t
not to see6 2or t-at w-i,- is 1leasant* b0t 2or t-at w-i,- is tr0e)
and t-e tr0t- o2 imitation ,onsists* as we were sayin.* in renderin.
t-e t-in. imitated a,,ordin. to ;0antity and ;0ality/
Cle/ Certainly/
At-/ And e4ery one will admit t-at m0si,al ,om1ositions are all
imitati4e and re1resentati4e/ Will not 1oets and s1e,tators and a,tors
all a.ree in t-is3
Cle/ #-ey will/
At-/ S0rely t-en -e w-o wo0ld j0d.e ,orre,tly m0st 6now w-at ea,-
,om1osition is) 2or i2 -e does not 6now w-at is t-e ,-ara,ter and
meanin. o2 t-e 1ie,e* and w-at it re1resents* -e will ne4er dis,ern
w-et-er t-e intention is tr0e or 2alse/
Cle/ Certainly not/
At-/ And will -e w-o does not 6now w-at is tr0e be able to
distin.0is- w-at is .ood and bad3 +y statement is not 4ery ,lear)
b0t 1er-a1s yo0 will 0nderstand me better i2 I 10t t-e matter in
anot-er way/
Cle/ $ow3
At-/ #-ere are ten t-o0sand li6enesses o2 obje,ts o2 si.-t3
Cle/ 7es/
At-/ And ,an -e w-o does not 6now w-at t-e e:a,t obje,t is w-i,-
is imitated* e4er 6now w-et-er t-e resemblan,e is tr0t-20lly e:e,0ted3
I mean* 2or e:am1le* w-et-er a stat0e -as t-e 1ro1ortions o2 a body*
and t-e tr0e sit0ation o2 t-e 1arts) w-at t-ose 1ro1ortions are* and
-ow t-e 1arts 2it into one anot-er in d0e order) also t-eir ,olo0rs
and ,on2ormations* or w-et-er t-is is all ,on20sed in t-e e:e,0tion(
do yo0 t-in6 t-at any one ,an 6now abo0t t-is* w-o does not 6now
w-at t-e animal is w-i,- -as been imitated3
Cle/ Im1ossible/
At-/ B0t e4en i2 we 6now t-at t-e t-in. 1i,t0red or s,0l1t0red is
a man* w-o -as re,ei4ed at t-e -and o2 t-e artist all -is 1ro1er 1arts
and ,olo0rs and s-a1es* m0st we not also 6now w-et-er t-e wor6 is
bea0ti20l or in any res1e,t de2i,ient in bea0ty3
Cle/ I2 t-is were not re;0ired* Stran.er* we s-o0ld all o2 0s be
j0d.es o2 bea0ty/
At-/ 8ery tr0e) and may we not say t-at in e4eryt-in. imitated*
w-et-er in drawin.* m0si,* or any ot-er art* -e w-o is to be a
,om1etent j0d.e m0st 1ossess t-ree t-in.s)9-e m0st 6now* in t-e
2irst 1la,e* o2 w-at t-e imitation is) se,ondly* -e m0st 6now t-at
it is tr0e) and t-irdly* t-at it -as been well e:e,0ted in words and
melodies and r-yt-ms3
Cle/ Certainly/
At-/ #-en let 0s not 2aint in dis,0ssin. t-e 1e,0liar di22i,0lty
o2 m0si,/ +0si, is more ,elebrated t-an any ot-er 6ind o2 imitation*
and t-ere2ore re;0ires t-e .reatest ,are o2 t-em all/ "or i2 a man
ma6es a mista6e -ere* -e may do -imsel2 t-e .reatest inj0ry by
wel,omin. e4il dis1ositions* and t-e mista6e may be 4ery di22i,0lt
to dis,ern* be,a0se t-e 1oets are artists 4ery in2erior in ,-ara,ter
to t-e +0ses t-emsel4es* w-o wo0ld ne4er 2all into t-e monstro0s error
o2 assi.nin. to t-e words o2 men t-e .est0res and son.s o2 women)
nor a2ter ,ombinin. t-e melodies wit- t-e .est0res o2 2reemen wo0ld
t-ey add on t-e r-yt-ms o2 sla4es and men o2 t-e baser sort) nor*
be.innin. wit- t-e r-yt-ms and .est0res o2 2reemen* wo0ld t-ey
assi.n to t-em a melody or words w-i,- are o2 an o11osite ,-ara,ter)
nor wo0ld t-ey mi: 01 t-e 4oi,es and so0nds o2 animals and o2 men
and instr0ments* and e4ery ot-er sort o2 noise* as i2 t-ey were all
one/ B0t -0man 1oets are 2ond o2 introd0,in. t-is sort o2 in,onsistent
mi:t0re* and so ma6e t-emsel4es ridi,0lo0s in t-e eyes o2 t-ose w-o*
as Or1-e0s says* Aare ri1e 2or tr0e 1leas0re/A #-e e:1erien,ed see all
t-is ,on20sion* and yet t-e 1oets .o on and ma6e still 20rt-er -a4o,
by se1aratin. t-e r-yt-m and t-e 2i.0re o2 t-e dan,e 2rom t-e
melody* settin. bare words to metre* and also se1aratin. t-e melody
and t-e r-yt-m 2rom t-e words* 0sin. t-e lyre or t-e 2l0te alone/
"or w-en t-ere are no words* it is 4ery di22i,0lt to re,o.ni<e t-e
meanin. o2 t-e -armony and r-yt-m* or to see t-at any wort-y obje,t is
imitated by t-em/ And we m0st a,6nowled.e t-at all t-is sort o2 t-in.*
w-i,- aims only at swi2tness and smoot-ness and a br0tis- noise* and
0ses t-e 2l0te and t-e lyre not as t-e mere a,,om1animents o2 t-e
dan,e and son.* is e:,eedin.ly ,oarse and tasteless/ #-e 0se o2 eit-er
instr0ment* w-en 0na,,om1anied* leads to e4ery sort o2 irre.0larity
and tri,6ery/ #-is is all rational eno0.-/ B0t we are ,onsiderin.
not -ow o0r ,-oristers* w-o are 2rom t-irty to 2i2ty years o2 a.e* and
may be o4er 2i2ty* are not to 0se t-e +0ses* b0t -ow t-ey are to 0se
t-em/ And t-e ,onsiderations w-i,- we -a4e 0r.ed seem to s-ow in
w-at way t-ese 2i2ty year9old ,-oristers w-o are to sin.* may be
e:1e,ted to be better trained/ "or t-ey need to -a4e a ;0i,6
1er,e1tion and 6nowled.e o2 -armonies and r-yt-ms) ot-erwise* -ow
,an t-ey e4er 6now w-et-er a melody wo0ld be ri.-tly s0n. to t-e
%orian mode* or to t-e r-yt-m w-i,- t-e 1oet -as assi.ned to it3
Cle/ Clearly t-ey ,annot/
At-/ #-e many are ridi,0lo0s in ima.inin. t-at t-ey 6now w-at is
in 1ro1er -armony and r-yt-m* and w-at is not* w-en t-ey ,an only be
made to sin. and ste1 in r-yt-m by 2or,e) it ne4er o,,0rs to t-em t-at
t-ey are i.norant o2 w-at t-ey are doin./ !ow e4ery melody is ri.-t
w-en it -as s0itable -armony and r-yt-m* and wron. w-en 0ns0itable/
Cle/ #-at is most ,ertain/
At-/ B0t ,an a man w-o does not 6now a t-in.* as we were sayin.*
6now t-at t-e t-in. is ri.-t3
Cle/ Im1ossible/
At-/ #-en now* as wo0ld a11ear* we are ma6in. t-e dis,o4ery t-at o0r
newly9a11ointed ,-oristers* w-om we -ereby in4ite and* alt-o0.- t-ey
are t-eir own masters* ,om1el to sin.* m0st be ed0,ated to s0,- an
e:tent as to be able to 2ollow t-e ste1s o2 t-e r-yt-m and t-e notes
o2 t-e son.* t-at t-ey may 6now t-e -armonies and r-yt-ms* and be able
to sele,t w-at are s0itable 2or men o2 t-eir a.e and ,-ara,ter to
sin.) and may sin. t-em* and -a4e inno,ent 1leas0re 2rom t-eir own
1er2orman,e* and also lead yo0n.er men to wel,ome wit- d0ti20l deli.-t
.ood dis1ositions/ $a4in. s0,- trainin.* t-ey will attain a more
a,,0rate 6nowled.e t-an 2alls to t-e lot o2 t-e ,ommon 1eo1le* or e4en
o2 t-e 1oets t-emsel4es/ "or t-e 1oet need not 6now t-e t-ird 1oint*
4i</* w-et-er t-e imitation is .ood or not* t-o0.- -e ,an -ardly
-el1 6nowin. t-e laws o2 melody and r-yt-m/ B0t t-e a.ed ,-or0s m0st
6now all t-e t-ree* t-at t-ey may ,-oose t-e best* and t-at w-i,- is
nearest to t-e best) 2or ot-erwise t-ey will ne4er be able to ,-arm
t-e so0ls o2 yo0n. men in t-e way o2 4irt0e/ And now t-e ori.inal
desi.n o2 t-e ar.0ment w-i,- was intended to brin. elo;0ent aid to t-e
C-or0s o2 %ionys0s* -as been a,,om1lis-ed to t-e best o2 o0r
ability* and let 0s see w-et-er we were ri.-t(9I s-o0ld ima.ine t-at a
drin6in. assembly is li6ely to be,ome more and more t0m0lt0o0s as
t-e drin6in. .oes on( t-is* as we were sayin. at 2irst* will ,ertainly
be t-e ,ase/
Cle/ Certainly/
At-/ E4ery man -as a more t-an nat0ral ele4ation) -is -eart is
.lad wit-in -im* and -e will say anyt-in. and will be restrained by
nobody at s0,- a time) -e 2an,ies t-at -e is able to r0le o4er -imsel2
and all man6ind/
Cle/ @0ite tr0e/
At-/ Were we not sayin. t-at on s0,- o,,asions t-e so0ls o2 t-e
drin6ers be,ome li6e iron -eated in t-e 2ire* and .row so2ter and
yo0n.er* and are easily mo0lded by -im w-o 6nows -ow to ed0,ate and
2as-ion t-em* j0st as w-en t-ey were yo0n.* and t-at t-is 2as-ioner o2
t-em is t-e same w-o 1res,ribed 2or t-em in t-e days o2 t-eir yo0t-*
4i</* t-e .ood le.islator) and t-at -e o0.-t to ena,t laws o2 t-e
ban;0et* w-i,-* w-en a man is ,on2ident* bold* and im10dent* and
0nwillin. to wait -is t0rn and -a4e -is s-are o2 silen,e and s1ee,-*
and drin6in. and m0si,* will ,-an.e -is ,-ara,ter into t-e
o11osite9s0,- laws as will in20se into -im a j0st and noble 2ear*
w-i,- will ta6e 01 arms at t-e a11roa,- o2 insolen,e* bein. t-at
di4ine 2ear w-i,- we -a4e ,alled re4eren,e and s-ame3
Cle/ #r0e/
At-/ And t-e .0ardians o2 t-ese laws and 2ellow9wor6ers wit- t-em
are t-e ,alm and sober .enerals o2 t-e drin6ers) and wit-o0t t-eir
-el1 t-ere is .reater di22i,0lty in 2i.-tin. a.ainst drin6 t-an in
2i.-tin. a.ainst enemies w-en t-e ,ommander o2 an army is not
-imsel2 ,alm) and -e w-o is 0nwillin. to obey t-em and t-e
,ommanders o2 %ionysia, 2easts w-o are more t-an si:ty years o2 a.e*
s-all s022er a dis.ra,e as .reat as -e w-o disobeys military
leaders* or e4en .reater/
Cle/ i.-t/
At-/ I2* t-en* drin6in. and am0sement were re.0lated in t-is way*
wo0ld not t-e ,om1anions o2 o0r re4els be im1ro4ed3 t-ey wo0ld 1art
better 2riends t-an t-ey were* and not* as now enemies/ #-eir w-ole
inter,o0rse wo0ld be re.0lated by law and obser4ant o2 it* and t-e
sober wo0ld be t-e leaders o2 t-e dr0n6en/
Cle/ I t-in6 so too* i2 drin6in. were re.0lated as yo0 1ro1ose/
At-/ Let 0s not t-en sim1ly ,ens0re t-e .i2t o2 %ionys0s as bad
and 0n2it to be re,ei4ed into t-e State/ "or wine -as many
e:,ellen,es* and one 1re9eminent one* abo0t w-i,- t-ere is a
di22i,0lty in s1ea6in. to t-e many* 2rom a 2ear o2 t-eir mis,on,ei4in.
and mis0nderstandin. w-at is said/
Cle/ #o w-at do yo0 re2er3
At-/ #-ere is a tradition or story* w-i,- -as some-ow ,re1t abo0t
t-e world* t-at %ionys0s was robbed o2 -is wits by -is ste1mot-er
$ere* and t-at o0t o2 re4en.e -e ins1ires Ba,,-i, 20ries and dan,in.
madnesses in ot-ers) 2or w-i,- reason -e .a4e men wine/ S0,-
traditions ,on,ernin. t-e &ods I lea4e to t-ose w-o t-in6 t-at t-ey
may be sa2ely 0ttered) I only 6now t-at no animal at birt- is mat0re
or 1er2e,t in intelli.en,e) and in t-e intermediate 1eriod* in w-i,-
-e -as not yet a,;0ired -is own 1ro1er sense* -e ra.es and roars
wit-o0t r-yme or reason) and w-en -e -as on,e .ot on -is le.s -e j0m1s
abo0t wit-o0t r-yme or reason) and t-is* as yo0 will remember* -as
been already said by 0s to be t-e ori.in o2 m0si, and .ymnasti,/
Cle/ #o be s0re* I remember/
At-/ And did we not say t-at t-e sense o2 -armony and r-yt-m
s1ran. 2rom t-is be.innin. amon. men* and t-at A1ollo and t-e +0ses
and %ionys0s were t-e &ods w-om we -ad to t-an6 2or t-em3
Cle/ Certainly/
At-/ #-e ot-er story im1lied t-at wine was .i4en man o0t o2 re4en.e*
and in order to ma6e -im mad) b0t o0r 1resent do,trine* on t-e
,ontrary* is* t-at wine was .i4en -im as a balm* and in order to
im1lant modesty in t-e so0l* and -ealt- and stren.t- in t-e body/
Cle/ #-at* Stran.er* is 1re,isely w-at was said/
At-/ #-en -al2 t-e s0bje,t may now be ,onsidered to -a4e been
dis,0ssed) s-all we 1ro,eed to t-e ,onsideration o2 t-e ot-er -al23
Cle/ W-at is t-e ot-er -al2* and -ow do yo0 di4ide t-e s0bje,t3
At-/ #-e w-ole ,-oral art is also in o0r 4iew t-e w-ole o2
ed0,ation) and o2 t-is art* r-yt-ms and -armonies 2orm t-e 1art
w-i,- -as to do wit- t-e 4oi,e/
Cle/ 7es/
At-/ #-e mo4ement o2 t-e body -as r-yt-m in ,ommon wit- t-e mo4ement
o2 t-e 4oi,e* b0t .est0re is 1e,0liar to it* w-ereas son. is sim1ly
t-e mo4ement o2 t-e 4oi,e/
Cle/ +ost tr0e/
At-/ And t-e so0nd o2 t-e 4oi,e w-i,- rea,-es and ed0,ates t-e so0l*
we -a4e 4ent0red to term m0si,/
Cle/ We were ri.-t/
At-/ And t-e mo4ement o2 t-e body* w-en re.arded as an am0sement* we
termed dan,in.) b0t w-en e:tended and 10rs0ed wit- a 4iew to t-e
e:,ellen,e o2 t-e body* t-is s,ienti2i, trainin. may be ,alled
.ymnasti,/
Cle/ E:a,tly/
At-/ +0si,* w-i,- was one -al2 o2 t-e ,-oral art* may be said to
-a4e been ,om1letely dis,0ssed/ S-all we 1ro,eed to t-e ot-er -al2
or not3 W-at wo0ld yo0 li6e3
Cle/ +y .ood 2riend* w-en yo0 are tal6in. wit- a Cretan and
La,edaemonian* and we -a4e dis,0ssed m0si, and not .ymnasti,* w-at
answer are eit-er o2 0s li6ely to ma6e to s0,- an en;0iry3
At-/ An answer is ,ontained in yo0r ;0estion) and I 0nderstand and
a,,e1t w-at yo0 say not only as an answer* b0t also as a ,ommand to
1ro,eed wit- .ymnasti,/
Cle/ 7o0 ;0ite 0nderstand me) do as yo0 say/
At-/ I will) and t-ere will not be any di22i,0lty in s1ea6in.
intelli.ibly to yo0 abo0t a s0bje,t wit- w-i,- bot- o2 yo0 are 2ar
more 2amiliar t-an wit- m0si,/
Cle/ #-ere will not/
At-/ Is not t-e ori.in o2 .ymnasti,s* too* to be so0.-t in t-e
tenden,y to ra1id motion w-i,- e:ists in all animals) man* as we
were sayin.* -a4in. attained t-e sense o2 r-yt-m* ,reated and in4ented
dan,in.) and melody aro0sin. and awa6enin. r-yt-m* bot- 0nited
2ormed t-e ,-oral art3
Cle/ 8ery tr0e/
At-/ And one 1art o2 t-is s0bje,t -as been already dis,0ssed by
0s* and t-ere still remains anot-er to be dis,0ssed3
Cle/ E:a,tly/
At-/ I -a4e 2irst a 2inal word to add to my dis,o0rse abo0t drin6*
i2 yo0 will allow me to do so/
Cle/ W-at more -a4e yo0 to say3
At-/ I s-o0ld say t-at i2 a ,ity serio0sly means to ado1t t-e
1ra,ti,e o2 drin6in. 0nder d0e re.0lation and wit- a 4iew to t-e
en2or,ement o2 tem1eran,e* and in li6e manner* and on t-e same
1rin,i1le* will allow o2 ot-er 1leas0res* desi.nin. to .ain t-e
4i,tory o4er t-em in t-is way all o2 t-em may be 0sed/ B0t i2 t-e
State ma6es drin6in. an am0sement only* and w-oe4er li6es may drin6
w-ene4er -e li6es* and wit- w-om -e li6es* and add to t-is any ot-er
ind0l.en,es* I s-all ne4er a.ree or allow t-at t-is ,ity or t-is man
s-o0ld 1ra,tise drin6in./ I wo0ld .o 20rt-er t-an t-e Cretans and
La,edaemonians* and am dis1osed rat-er to t-e law o2 t-e
Cart-a.inians* t-at no one w-ile -e is on a ,am1ai.n s-o0ld be allowed
to taste wine at all* b0t t-at -e s-o0ld drin6 water d0rin. all t-at
time* and t-at in t-e ,ity no sla4e* male or 2emale* s-o0ld e4er drin6
wine) and t-at no ma.istrates s-o0ld drin6 d0rin. t-eir year o2
o22i,e* nor s-o0ld 1ilots o2 4essels or j0d.es w-ile on d0ty taste
wine at all* nor any one w-o is .oin. to -old a ,ons0ltation abo0t any
matter o2 im1ortan,e) nor in t-e daytime at all* 0nless in ,onse;0en,e
o2 e:er,ise or as medi,ine) nor a.ain at ni.-t* w-en any one* eit-er
man or woman* is minded to .et ,-ildren/ #-ere are n0mberless ot-er
,ases also in w-i,- t-ose w-o -a4e .ood sense and .ood laws o0.-t
not to drin6 wine* so t-at i2 w-at I say is tr0e* no ,ity will need
many 4ineyards/ #-eir -0sbandry and t-eir way o2 li2e in .eneral
will 2ollow an a11ointed order* and t-eir ,0lti4ation o2 t-e 4ine will
be t-e most limited and t-e least ,ommon o2 t-eir em1loyments/ And
t-is* Stran.er* s-all be t-e ,rown o2 my dis,o0rse abo0t wine* i2
yo0 a.ree/
Cle/ E:,ellent( we a.ree/
BOOK III
At-enian Stran.er/ Eno0.- o2 t-is/ And w-at* t-en* is to be re.arded
as t-e ori.in o2 .o4ernment3 Will not a man be able to j0d.e o2 it
best 2rom a 1oint o2 4iew in w-i,- -e may be-old t-e 1ro.ress o2
states and t-eir transitions to .ood or e4il3
Cleinias/ W-at do yo0 mean3
At-/ I mean t-at -e mi.-t wat,- t-em 2rom t-e 1oint o2 4iew o2 time*
and obser4e t-e ,-an.es w-i,- ta6e 1la,e in t-em d0rin. in2inite a.es/
Cle/ $ow so3
At-/ W-y* do yo0 t-in6 t-at yo0 ,an re,6on t-e time w-i,- -as
ela1sed sin,e ,ities 2irst e:isted and men were ,iti<ens o2 t-em3
Cle/ $ardly/
At-/ B0t are s0re t-at it m0st be 4ast and in,al,0lable3
Cle/ Certainly/
At-/ And -a4e not t-o0sands and t-o0sands o2 ,ities ,ome into
bein. d0rin. t-is 1eriod and as many 1eris-ed3 And -as not ea,- o2
t-em -ad e4ery 2orm o2 .o4ernment many times o4er* now .rowin. lar.er*
now smaller* and a.ain im1ro4in. or de,linin.3
Cle/ #o be s0re/
At-/ Let 0s endea4o0r to as,ertain t-e ,a0se o2 t-ese ,-an.es) 2or
t-at will 1robably e:1lain t-e 2irst ori.in and de4elo1ment o2 2orms
o2 .o4ernment/
Cle/ 8ery .ood/ 7o0 s-all endea4o0r to im1art yo0r t-o0.-ts to 0s*
and we will ma6e an e22ort to 0nderstand yo0/
At-/ %o yo0 belie4e t-at t-ere is any tr0t- in an,ient traditions3
Cle/ W-at traditions3
At-/ #-e traditions abo0t t-e many destr0,tions o2 man6ind w-i,-
-a4e been o,,asioned by del0.es and 1estilen,es* and in many ot-er
ways* and o2 t-e s0r4i4al o2 a remnant3
Cle/ E4ery one is dis1osed to belie4e t-em/
At-/ Let 0s ,onsider one o2 t-em* t-at w-i,- was ,a0sed by t-e
2amo0s del0.e/
Cle/ W-at are we to obser4e abo0t it3
At-/ I mean to say t-at t-ose w-o t-en es,a1ed wo0ld only be -ill
s-e1-erds9small s1ar6s o2 t-e -0man ra,e 1reser4ed on t-e to1s o2
mo0ntains/
Cle/ Clearly/
At-/ S0,- s0r4i4ors wo0ld ne,essarily be 0na,;0ainted wit- t-e
arts and t-e 4ario0s de4i,es w-i,- are s0..ested to t-e dwellers in
,ities by interest or ambition* and wit- all t-e wron.s w-i,- t-ey
,ontri4e a.ainst one anot-er/
Cle/ 8ery tr0e/
At-/ Let 0s s011ose* t-en* t-at t-e ,ities in t-e 1lain and on t-e
sea9,oast were 0tterly destroyed at t-at time/
Cle/ 8ery .ood/
At-/ Wo0ld not all im1lements -a4e t-en 1eris-ed and e4ery ot-er
e:,ellent in4ention o2 1oliti,al or any ot-er sort o2 wisdom -a4e
0tterly disa11eared3
Cle/ W-y* yes* my 2riend) and i2 t-in.s -ad always ,ontin0ed as t-ey
are at 1resent ordered* -ow ,o0ld any dis,o4ery -a4e e4er been made
e4en in t-e least 1arti,0lar3 "or it is e4ident t-at t-e arts were
0n6nown d0rin. ten t-o0sand times ten t-o0sand years/ And no more t-an
a t-o0sand or two t-o0sand years -a4e ela1sed sin,e t-e dis,o4eries o2
%aedal0s* Or1-e0s and Palamedes9sin,e +arsyas and Olym10s in4ented
m0si,* and Am1-ion t-e lyre9not to s1ea6 o2 n0mberless ot-er
in4entions w-i,- are b0t o2 yesterday/
At-/ $a4e yo0 2or.otten* Cleinias* t-e name o2 a 2riend w-o is
really o2 yesterday3
Cle/ I s011ose t-at yo0 mean E1imenides/
At-/ #-e same* my 2riend) -e does indeed 2ar o4erlea1 t-e -eads o2
all man6ind by -is in4ention) 2or -e ,arried o0t in 1ra,ti,e* as yo0
de,lare* w-at o2 old $esiod only 1rea,-ed/
Cle/ 7es* a,,ordin. to o0r tradition/
At-/ A2ter t-e .reat destr0,tion* may we not s011ose t-at t-e
state o2 man was somet-in. o2 t-is sort(9In t-e be.innin. o2 t-in.s
t-ere was a 2ear20l illimitable desert and a 4ast e:1anse o2 land) a
-erd or two o2 o:en wo0ld be t-e only s0r4i4ors o2 t-e animal world)
and t-ere mi.-t be a 2ew .oats* t-ese too -ardly eno0.- to maintain
t-e s-e1-erds w-o tended t-em3
Cle/ #r0e/
At-/ And o2 ,ities or .o4ernments or le.islation* abo0t w-i,- we are
now tal6in.* do yo0 s011ose t-at t-ey ,o0ld -a4e any re,olle,tion at
all3
Cle/ !one w-ate4er/
At-/ And o0t o2 t-is state o2 t-in.s -as t-ere not s1r0n. all t-at
we now are and -a4e( ,ities and .o4ernments* and arts and laws* and
a .reat deal o2 4i,e and a .reat deal o2 4irt0e3
Cle/ W-at do yo0 mean3
At-/ W-y* my .ood 2riend* -ow ,an we 1ossibly s011ose t-at t-ose w-o
6new not-in. o2 all t-e .ood and e4il o2 ,ities ,o0ld -a4e attained
t-eir 20ll de4elo1ment* w-et-er o2 4irt0e or o2 4i,e3
Cle/ I 0nderstand yo0r meanin.* and yo0 are ;0ite ri.-t/
At-/ B0t* as time ad4an,ed and t-e ra,e m0lti1lied* t-e world ,ame
to be w-at t-e world is/
Cle/ 8ery tr0e/
At-/ %o0btless t-e ,-an.e was not made all in a moment* b0t little
by little* d0rin. a 4ery lon. 1eriod o2 time/
Cle/ A -i.-ly 1robable s011osition/
At-/ At 2irst* t-ey wo0ld -a4e a nat0ral 2ear rin.in. in t-eir
ears w-i,- wo0ld 1re4ent t-eir des,endin. 2rom t-e -ei.-ts into t-e
1lain/
Cle/ O2 ,o0rse/
At-/ #-e 2ewness o2 t-e s0r4i4ors at t-at time wo0ld -a4e made
t-em all t-e more desiro0s o2 seein. one anot-er) b0t t-en t-e means
o2 tra4ellin. eit-er by land or sea -ad been almost entirely lost*
as I may say* wit- t-e loss o2 t-e arts* and t-ere was .reat
di22i,0lty in .ettin. at one anot-er) 2or iron and brass and all
metals were j0mbled to.et-er and -ad disa11eared in t-e ,-aos) nor was
t-ere any 1ossibility o2 e:tra,tin. ore 2rom t-em) and t-ey -ad
s,ar,ely any means o2 2ellin. timber/ E4en i2 yo0 s011ose t-at some
im1lements mi.-t -a4e been 1reser4ed in t-e mo0ntains* t-ey m0st
;0i,6ly -a4e worn o0t and 4anis-ed* and t-ere wo0ld be no more o2 t-em
0ntil t-e art o2 metall0r.y -ad a.ain re4i4ed/
Cle/ #-ere ,o0ld not -a4e been/
At-/ In -ow many .enerations wo0ld t-is be attained3
Cle/ Clearly* not 2or many .enerations/
At-/ %0rin. t-is 1eriod* and 2or some time a2terwards* all t-e
arts w-i,- re;0ire iron and brass and t-e li6e wo0ld disa11ear/
Cle/ Certainly/
At-/ "a,tion and war wo0ld also -a4e died o0t in t-ose days* and 2or
many reasons/
Cle/ $ow wo0ld t-at be3
At-/ In t-e 2irst 1la,e* t-e desolation o2 t-ese 1rimiti4e men wo0ld
,reate in t-em a 2eelin. o2 a22e,tion and .ood9will towards one
anot-er) and* se,ondly* t-ey wo0ld -a4e no o,,asion to ;0arrel abo0t
t-eir s0bsisten,e* 2or t-ey wo0ld -a4e 1ast0re in ab0ndan,e* e:,e1t
j0st at 2irst* and in some 1arti,0lar ,ases) and 2rom t-eir
1ast0re9land t-ey wo0ld obtain t-e .reater 1art o2 t-eir 2ood in a
1rimiti4e a.e* -a4in. 1lenty o2 mil6 and 2les-) moreo4er t-ey wo0ld
1ro,0re ot-er 2ood by t-e ,-ase* not to be des1ised eit-er in ;0antity
or ;0ality/ #-ey wo0ld also -a4e ab0ndan,e o2 ,lot-in.* and beddin.*
and dwellin.s* and 0tensils eit-er ,a1able o2 standin. on t-e 2ire
or not) 2or t-e 1lasti, and wea4in. arts do not re;0ire any 0se o2
iron( and &od -as .i4en t-ese two arts to man in order to 1ro4ide
-im wit- all s0,- t-in.s* t-at* w-en red0,ed to t-e last e:tremity*
t-e -0man ra,e may still .row and in,rease/ $en,e in t-ose days
man6ind were not 4ery 1oor) nor was 1o4erty a ,a0se o2 di22eren,e
amon. t-em) and ri,- t-ey ,o0ld not -a4e been* -a4in. neit-er .old nor
sil4er(9s0,- at t-at time was t-eir ,ondition/ And t-e ,omm0nity w-i,-
-as neit-er 1o4erty nor ri,-es will always -a4e t-e noblest
1rin,i1les) in it t-ere is no insolen,e or inj0sti,e* nor* a.ain*
are t-ere any ,ontentions or en4yin.s/ And t-ere2ore t-ey were .ood*
and also be,a0se t-ey were w-at is ,alled sim1le9minded) and w-en t-ey
were told abo0t .ood and e4il* t-ey in t-eir sim1li,ity belie4ed
w-at t-ey -eard to be 4ery tr0t- and 1ra,tised it/ !o one -ad t-e
wit to s0s1e,t anot-er o2 a 2alse-ood* as men do now) b0t w-at t-ey
-eard abo0t &ods and men t-ey belie4ed to be tr0e* and li4ed
a,,ordin.ly) and t-ere2ore t-ey were in all res1e,ts s0,- as we -a4e
des,ribed t-em/
Cle/ #-at ;0ite a,,ords wit- my 4iews* and wit- t-ose o2 my 2riend
-ere/
At-/ Wo0ld not many .enerations li4in. on in a sim1le manner*
alt-o0.- r0der* 1er-a1s* and more i.norant o2 t-e arts .enerally*
and in 1arti,0lar o2 t-ose o2 land or na4al war2are* and li6ewise o2
ot-er arts* termed in ,ities le.al 1ra,ti,es and 1arty ,on2li,ts*
and in,l0din. all ,on,ei4able ways o2 -0rtin. one anot-er in word
and deed)9alt-o0.- in2erior to t-ose w-o li4ed be2ore t-e del0.e* or
to t-e men o2 o0r day in t-ese res1e,ts* wo0ld t-ey not* I say* be
sim1ler and more manly* and also more tem1erate and alto.et-er more
j0st3 #-e reason -as been already e:1lained/
Cle/ 8ery tr0e/
At-/ I s-o0ld wis- yo0 to 0nderstand t-at w-at -as 1re,eded and w-at
is abo0t to 2ollow* -as been* and will be said* wit- t-e intention
o2 e:1lainin. w-at need t-e men o2 t-at time -ad o2 laws* and w-o
was t-eir law.i4er/
Cle/ And t-0s 2ar w-at yo0 -a4e said -as been 4ery well said/
At-/ #-ey ,o0ld -ardly -a4e wanted law.i4ers as yet) not-in. o2 t-at
sort was li6ely to -a4e e:isted in t-eir days* 2or t-ey -ad no letters
at t-is early 1eriod) t-ey li4ed by -abit and t-e ,0stoms o2 t-eir
an,estors* as t-ey are ,alled/
Cle/ Probably/
At-/ B0t t-ere was already e:istin. a 2orm o2 .o4ernment w-i,-* i2 I
am not mista6en* is .enerally termed a lords-i1* and t-is still
remains in many 1la,es* bot- amon. $ellenes and barbarians* and is t-e
.o4ernment w-i,- is de,lared by $omer to -a4e 1re4ailed amon. t-e
Cy,lo1es(
#-ey -a4e neit-er ,o0n,ils nor j0d.ments* b0t t-ey dwell in -ollow
,a4es on t-e to1s o2 -i.- mo0ntains* and e4ery one .i4es law to -is
wi2e and ,-ildren* and t-ey do not b0sy t-emsel4es abo0t one anot-er/
Cle/ #-at seems to be a ,-armin. 1oet o2 yo0rs) I -a4e read some
ot-er 4erses o2 -is* w-i,- are 4ery ,le4er) b0t I do not 6now m0,-
o2 -im* 2or 2orei.n 1oets are 4ery little read amon. t-e Cretans/
+e.ill0s/ B0t t-ey are in La,edaemon* and -e a11ears to be t-e
1rin,e o2 t-em all) t-e manner o2 li2e* -owe4er* w-i,- -e des,ribes is
not S1artan* b0t rat-er Ionian* and -e seems ;0ite to ,on2irm w-at yo0
are sayin.* w-en -e tra,es 01 t-e an,ient state o2 man6ind by t-e -el1
o2 tradition to barbarism/
At-/ 7es* -e does ,on2irm it) and we may a,,e1t -is witness to t-e
2a,t t-at s0,- 2orms o2 .o4ernment sometimes arise/
Cle/ We may/
At-/ And were not s0,- states ,om1osed o2 men w-o -ad been dis1ersed
in sin.le -abitations and 2amilies by t-e 1o4erty w-i,- attended t-e
de4astations) and did not t-e eldest t-en r0le amon. t-em* be,a0se
wit- t-em .o4ernment ori.inated in t-e a0t-ority o2 a 2at-er and a
mot-er* w-om* li6e a 2lo,6 o2 birds* t-ey 2ollowed* 2ormin. one
troo1 0nder t-e 1atriar,-al r0le and so4erei.nty o2 t-eir 1arents*
w-i,- o2 all so4erei.nties is t-e most j0st3
Cle/ 8ery tr0e/
At-/ A2ter t-is t-ey ,ame to.et-er in .reater n0mbers* and in,reased
t-e si<e o2 t-eir ,ities* and betoo6 t-emsel4es to -0sbandry* 2irst o2
all at t-e 2oot o2 t-e mo0ntains* and made en,los0res o2 loose walls
and wor6s o2 de2en,e* in order to 6ee1 o22 wild beasts) t-0s
,reatin. a sin.le lar.e and ,ommon -abitation/
Cle/ 7es) at least we may s011ose so/
At-/ #-ere is anot-er t-in. w-i,- wo0ld 1robably -a11en/
Cle/ W-at3
At-/ W-en t-ese lar.er -abitations .rew 01 o0t o2 t-e lesser
ori.inal ones* ea,- o2 t-e lesser ones wo0ld s0r4i4e in t-e lar.er)
e4ery 2amily wo0ld be 0nder t-e r0le o2 t-e eldest* and* owin. to
t-eir se1aration 2rom one anot-er* wo0ld -a4e 1e,0liar ,0stoms in
t-in.s di4ine and -0man* w-i,- t-ey wo0ld -a4e re,ei4ed 2rom t-eir
se4eral 1arents w-o -ad ed0,ated t-em) and t-ese ,0stoms wo0ld in,line
t-em to order* w-en t-e 1arents -ad t-e element o2 order in t-eir
nat0re* and to ,o0ra.e* w-en t-ey -ad t-e element o2 ,o0ra.e/ And t-ey
wo0ld nat0rally stam1 01on t-eir ,-ildren* and 01on t-eir ,-ildren=s
,-ildren* t-eir own li6in.s) and* as we are sayin.* t-ey wo0ld 2ind
t-eir way into t-e lar.er so,iety* -a4in. already t-eir own 1e,0liar
laws/
Cle/ Certainly/
At-/ And e4ery man s0rely li6es -is own laws best* and t-e laws o2
ot-ers not so well/
Cle/ #r0e/
At-/ #-en now we seem to -a4e st0mbled 01on t-e be.innin.s o2
le.islation/
Cle/ E:a,tly/
At-/ #-e ne:t ste1 will be t-at t-ese 1ersons w-o -a4e met to.et-er*
will sele,t some arbiters* w-o will re4iew t-e laws o2 all o2 t-em*
and will 10bli,ly 1resent s0,- as t-ey a11ro4e to t-e ,-ie2s w-o
lead t-e tribes* and w-o are in a manner t-eir 6in.s* allowin. t-em to
,-oose t-ose w-i,- t-ey t-in6 best/ #-ese 1ersons will t-emsel4es be
,alled le.islators* and will a11oint t-e ma.istrates* 2ramin. some
sort o2 aristo,ra,y* or 1er-a1s monar,-y* o0t o2 t-e dynasties or
lords-i1s* and in t-is altered state o2 t-e .o4ernment t-ey will li4e/
Cle/ 7es* t-at wo0ld be t-e nat0ral order o2 t-in.s/
At-/ #-en* now let 0s s1ea6 o2 a t-ird 2orm o2 .o4ernment* in
w-i,- all ot-er 2orms and ,onditions o2 1olities and ,ities ,on,0r/
Cle/ W-at is t-at3
At-/ #-e 2orm w-i,- in 2a,t $omer indi,ates as 2ollowin. t-e se,ond/
#-is t-ird 2orm arose w-en* as -e says* %ardan0s 2o0nded %ardania(
"or not as yet -ad t-e -oly Ili0m been b0ilt on t-e 1lain to be a
,ity o2 s1ea6in. men) b0t t-ey were still dwellin. at t-e 2oot o2
many92o0ntained Ida/
"or indeed* in t-ese 4erses* and in w-at -e said o2 t-e Cy,lo1es* -e
s1ea6s t-e words o2 &od and nat0re) 2or 1oets are a di4ine ra,e and
o2ten in t-eir strains* by t-e aid o2 t-e +0ses and t-e &ra,es* t-ey
attain tr0t-/
Cle/ 7es/
At-/ #-en now let 0s 1ro,eed wit- t-e rest o2 o0r tale* w-i,- will
1robably be 2o0nd to ill0strate in some de.ree o0r 1ro1osed
desi.n(9S-all we do so3
Cle/ By all means/
At-/ Ili0m was b0ilt* w-en t-ey des,ended 2rom t-e mo0ntain* in a
lar.e and 2air 1lain* on a sort o2 low -ill* watered by many ri4ers
des,endin. 2rom Ida/
Cle/ S0,- is t-e tradition/
At-/ And we m0st s011ose t-is e4ent to -a4e ta6en 1la,e many a.es
a2ter t-e del0.e3
At-/ A mar4ello0s 2or.et20lness o2 t-e 2ormer destr0,tion wo0ld
a11ear to -a4e ,ome o4er t-em* w-en t-ey 1la,ed t-eir town ri.-t 0nder
n0mero0s streams 2lowin. 2rom t-e -ei.-ts* tr0stin. 2or t-eir se,0rity
to not 4ery -i.- -ills* eit-er/
Cle/ #-ere m0st -a4e been a lon. inter4al* ,learly/
At-/ And* as 1o10lation in,reased* many ot-er ,ities wo0ld be.in
to be in-abited/
Cle/ %o0btless/
At-/ #-ose ,ities made war a.ainst #roy9by sea as well as land92or
at t-at time men were ,easin. to be a2raid o2 t-e sea/
Cle/ Clearly/
At-/ #-e A,-aeans remained ten years* and o4ert-rew #roy/
Cle/ #r0e/
At-/ And d0rin. t-e ten years in w-i,- t-e A,-aeans were besie.in.
Ili0m* t-e -omes o2 t-e besie.ers were 2allin. into an e4il 1li.-t/
#-eir yo0t- re4olted) and w-en t-e soldiers ret0rned to t-eir own
,ities and 2amilies* t-ey did not re,ei4e t-em 1ro1erly* and as t-ey
o0.-t to -a4e done* and n0mero0s deat-s* m0rders* e:iles* were t-e
,onse;0en,e/ #-e e:iles ,ame a.ain* 0nder a new name* no lon.er
A,-aeans* b0t %orians9a name w-i,- t-ey deri4ed 2rom %orie0s) 2or it
was -e w-o .at-ered t-em to.et-er/ #-e rest o2 t-e story is told by
yo0 La,edaemonians as 1art o2 t-e -istory o2 S1arta/
+e./ #o be s0re/
At-/ #-0s* a2ter di.ressin. 2rom t-e ori.inal s0bje,t o2 laws into
m0si, and drin6in.9bo0ts* t-e ar.0ment -as* 1ro4identially* ,ome
ba,6 to t-e same 1oint* and 1resents to 0s anot-er -andle/ "or we -a4e
rea,-ed t-e settlement o2 La,edaemon) w-i,-* as yo0 tr0ly say* is in
laws and in instit0tions t-e sister o2 Crete/ And we are all t-e
better 2or t-e di.ression* be,a0se we -a4e .one t-ro0.- 4ario0s
.o4ernments and settlements* and -a4e been 1resent at t-e 2o0ndation
o2 a 2irst* se,ond* and t-ird state* s0,,eedin. one anot-er in
in2inite time/ And now t-ere a11ears on t-e -ori<on a 2o0rt- state
or nation w-i,- was on,e in 1ro,ess o2 settlement and -as ,ontin0ed
settled to t-is day/ I2* o0t o2 all t-is* we are able to dis,ern
w-at is well or ill settled* and w-at laws are t-e sal4ation and
w-at are t-e destr0,tion o2 ,ities* and w-at ,-an.es wo0ld ma6e a
state -a11y* O +e.ill0s and Cleinias* we may now be.in a.ain* 0nless
we -a4e some 2a0lt to 2ind wit- t-e 1re4io0s dis,0ssion/
+e./ I2 some &od* Stran.er* wo0ld 1romise 0s t-at o0r new en;0iry
abo0t le.islation wo0ld be as .ood and 20ll as t-e 1resent* I wo0ld .o
a .reat way to -ear s0,- anot-er* and wo0ld t-in6 t-at a day as lon.
as t-is9and we are now a11roa,-in. t-e lon.est day o2 t-e year9was too
s-ort 2or t-e dis,0ssion/
At-/ #-en I s011ose t-at we m0st ,onsider t-is s0bje,t3
+e./ Certainly/
At-/ Let 0s 1la,e o0rsel4es in t-o0.-t at t-e moment w-en La,edaemon
and Ar.os and +essene and t-e rest o2 t-e Pelo1onnes0s were all in
,om1lete s0bje,tion* +e.ill0s* to yo0r an,estors) 2or a2terwards* as
t-e le.end in2orms 0s* t-ey di4ided t-eir army into t-ree 1ortions*
and settled t-ree ,ities* Ar.os* +essene* La,edaemon/
+e./ #r0e/
At-/ #emen0s was t-e 6in. o2 Ar.os* Cres1-ontes o2 +essene*
Pro,les and E0ryst-enes o2 La,edaemon/
+e./ Certainly/
At-/ #o t-ese 6in.s all t-e men o2 t-at day made oat- t-at t-ey
wo0ld assist t-em* i2 any one s0b4erted t-eir 6in.dom/
+e./ #r0e/
At-/ B0t ,an a 6in.s-i1 be destroyed* or was any ot-er 2orm o2
.o4ernment e4er destroyed* by any b0t t-e r0lers t-emsel4es3 !o
indeed* by 5e0s/ $a4e we already 2or.otten w-at was said a little
w-ile a.o3
+e./ !o/
At-/ And may we not now 20rt-er ,on2irm w-at was t-en mentioned3 "or
we -a4e ,ome 01on 2a,ts w-i,- -a4e bro0.-t 0s ba,6 a.ain to t-e same
1rin,i1le) so t-at* in res0min. t-e dis,0ssion* we s-all not be
en;0irin. abo0t an em1ty t-eory* b0t abo0t e4ents w-i,- a,t0ally
-a11ened/ #-e ,ase was as 2ollows(9#-ree royal -eroes made oat- to
t-ree ,ities w-i,- were 0nder a 6in.ly .o4ernment* and t-e ,ities to
t-e 6in.s* t-at bot- r0lers and s0bje,ts s-o0ld .o4ern and be .o4erned
a,,ordin. to t-e laws w-i,- were ,ommon to all o2 t-em( t-e r0lers
1romised t-at as time and t-e ra,e went 2orward t-ey wo0ld not ma6e
t-eir r0le more arbitrary) and t-e s0bje,ts said t-at* i2 t-e r0lers
obser4ed t-ese ,onditions* t-ey wo0ld ne4er s0b4ert or 1ermit ot-ers
to s0b4ert t-ose 6in.doms) t-e 6in.s were to assist 6in.s and
1eo1les w-en inj0red* and t-e 1eo1les were to assist 1eo1les and 6in.s
in li6e manner/ Is not t-is t-e 2a,t3
+e./ 7es/
At-/ And t-e t-ree states to w-om t-ese laws were .i4en* w-et-er
t-eir 6in.s or any ot-ers were t-e a0t-ors o2 t-em* -ad t-ere2ore
t-e .reatest se,0rity 2or t-e maintenan,e o2 t-eir ,onstit0tions3
+e./ W-at se,0rity3
At-/ #-at t-e ot-er two states were always to ,ome to t-e res,0e
a.ainst a rebellio0s t-ird/
+e./ #r0e/
At-/ +any 1ersons say t-at le.islators o0.-t to im1ose s0,- laws
as t-e mass o2 t-e 1eo1le will be ready to re,ei4e) b0t t-is is j0st
as i2 one were to ,ommand .ymnasti, masters or 1-ysi,ians to treat
or ,0re t-eir 101ils or 1atients in an a.reeable manner/
+e./ E:a,tly/
At-/ W-ereas t-e 1-ysi,ian may o2ten be too -a11y i2 -e ,an
restore -ealt-* and ma6e t-e body w-ole* wit-o0t any 4ery .reat
in2li,tion o2 1ain/
+e./ Certainly/
At-/ #-ere was also anot-er ad4anta.e 1ossessed by t-e men o2 t-at
day* w-i,- .reatly li.-tened t-e tas6 o2 1assin. laws/
+e./ W-at ad4anta.e3
At-/ #-e le.islators o2 t-at day* w-en t-ey e;0ali<ed 1ro1erty*
es,a1ed t-e .reat a,,0sation w-i,- .enerally arises in le.islation* i2
a 1erson attem1ts to dist0rb t-e 1ossession o2 land* or to abolis-
debts* be,a0se -e sees t-at wit-o0t t-is re2orm t-ere ,an ne4er be any
real e;0ality/ !ow* in .eneral* w-en t-e le.islator attem1ts to ma6e a
new settlement o2 s0,- matters* e4ery one meets -im wit- t-e ,ry* t-at
A-e is not to dist0rb 4ested interestsA9de,larin. wit- im1re,ations
t-at -e is introd0,in. a.rarian laws and ,an,ellin. o2 debts* 0ntil
a man is at -is wits end) w-ereas no one ,o0ld ;0arrel wit- t-e
%orians 2or distrib0tin. t-e land9t-ere was not-in. to -inder t-em)
and as 2or debts* t-ey -ad none w-i,- were ,onsiderable or o2 old
standin./
+e./ 8ery tr0e/
At-/ B0t t-en* my .ood 2riends* w-y did t-e settlement and
le.islation o2 t-eir ,o0ntry t0rn o0t so badly3
+e./ $ow do yo0 mean) and w-y do yo0 blame t-em3
At-/ #-ere were t-ree 6in.doms* and o2 t-ese* two ;0i,6ly
,orr01ted t-eir ori.inal ,onstit0tion and laws* and t-e only one w-i,-
remained was t-e S1artan/
+e./ #-e ;0estion w-i,- yo0 as6 is not easily answered/
At-/ And yet m0st be answered w-en we are en;0irin. abo0t laws* t-is
bein. o0r old man=s sober .ame o2 1lay* w-ereby we be.0ile t-e way* as
I was sayin. w-en we 2irst set o0t on o0r jo0rney/
+e./ Certainly) and we m0st 2ind o0t w-y t-is was/
At-/ W-at laws are more wort-y o2 o0r attention t-an t-ose w-i,-
-a4e re.0lated s0,- ,ities3 or w-at settlements o2 states are
.reater or more 2amo0s3
+e./ I 6now o2 none/
At-/ Can we do0bt t-at yo0r an,estors intended t-ese instit0tions
not only 2or t-e 1rote,tion o2 Pelo1onnes0s* b0t o2 all t-e
$ellenes/ in ,ase t-ey were atta,6ed by t-e barbarian3 "or t-e
in-abitants o2 t-e re.ion abo0t Ili0m* w-en t-ey 1ro4o6ed by t-eir
insolen,e t-e #rojan war* relied 01on t-e 1ower o2 t-e Assyrians and
t-e Em1ire o2 !in0s* w-i,- still e:isted and -ad a .reat 1resti.e) t-e
1eo1le o2 t-ose days 2earin. t-e 0nited Assyrian Em1ire j0st as we now
2ear t-e &reat Kin./ And t-e se,ond ,a1t0re o2 #roy was a serio0s
o22en,e a.ainst t-em* be,a0se #roy was a 1ortion o2 t-e Assyrian
Em1ire/ #o meet t-e dan.er t-e sin.le army was distrib0ted between
t-ree ,ities by t-e royal brot-ers* sons o2 $era,les9a 2air de4i,e* as
it seemed* and a 2ar better arran.ement t-an t-e e:1edition a.ainst
#roy/ "or* 2irstly* t-e 1eo1le o2 t-at day -ad* as t-ey t-o0.-t* in
t-e $era,lidae better leaders t-an t-e Pelo1idae) in t-e ne:t 1la,e*
t-ey ,onsidered t-at t-eir army was s01erior in 4alo0r to t-at w-i,-
went a.ainst #roy) 2or* alt-o0.- t-e latter ,on;0ered t-e #rojans*
t-ey were t-emsel4es ,on;0ered by t-e $era,lidae9A,-aeans by
%orians/ +ay we not s011ose t-at t-is was t-e intention wit- w-i,- t-e
men o2 t-ose days 2ramed t-e ,onstit0tions o2 t-eir states3
+e./ @0ite tr0e/
At-/ And wo0ld not men w-o -ad s-ared wit- one anot-er many dan.ers*
and were .o4erned by a sin.le ra,e o2 royal brot-ers* and -ad ta6en
t-e ad4i,e o2 ora,les* and in 1arti,0lar o2 t-e %el1-ian A1ollo* be
li6ely to t-in6 t-at s0,- states wo0ld be 2irmly and lastin.ly
establis-ed3
+e./ O2 ,o0rse t-ey wo0ld/
At-/ 7et t-ese instit0tions* o2 w-i,- s0,- .reat e:1e,tations were
entertained* seem to -a4e all ra1idly 4anis-ed away) wit- t-e
e:,e1tion* as I was sayin.* o2 t-at small 1art o2 t-em w-i,- e:isted
in yo0rland/And t-is t-ird 1art -as ne4er to t-is day ,eased warrin.
a.ainst t-e two ot-ers) w-ereas* i2 t-e ori.inal idea -ad been ,arried
o0t* and t-ey -ad a.reed to be one* t-eir 1ower wo0ld -a4e been
in4in,ible in war/
+e./ !o do0bt/
At-/ B0t w-at was t-e r0in o2 t-is .lorio0s ,on2edera,y3 $ere is a
s0bje,t well wort-y o2 ,onsideration/
+e./ Certainly* no one will e4er 2ind more stri6in. instan,es o2
laws or .o4ernments bein. t-e sal4ation or destr0,tion o2 .reat and
noble interests* t-an are -ere 1resented to -is 4iew/
At-/ #-en now we seem to -a4e -a11ily arri4ed at a real and
im1ortant ;0estion/
+e./ 8ery tr0e/
At-/ %id yo0 ne4er remar6* sa.e 2riend* t-at all men* and we
o0rsel4es at t-is moment* o2ten 2an,y t-at t-ey see some bea0ti20l
t-in. w-i,- mi.-t -a4e e22e,ted wonders i2 any one -ad only 6nown
-ow to ma6e a ri.-t 0se o2 it in some way) and yet t-is mode o2
loo6in. at t-in.s may t0rn o0t a2ter all to be a mista6e* and not
a,,ordin. to nat0re* eit-er in o0r own ,ase or in any ot-er3
+e./ #o w-at are yo0 re2errin.* and w-at do yo0 mean3
At-/ I was t-in6in. o2 my own admiration o2 t-e a2oresaid
$era,leid e:1edition* w-i,- was so noble* and mi.-t -a4e -ad s0,-
wonder20l res0lts 2or t-e $ellenes* i2 only ri.-tly 0sed) and I was
j0st la0.-in. at mysel2/
+e./ B0t were yo0 not ri.-t and wise in s1ea6in. as yo0 did* and
we in assentin. to yo03
At-/ Per-a1s) and yet I ,annot -el1 obser4in. t-at any one w-o
sees anyt-in. .reat or 1ower20l* immediately -as t-e 2eelin.
t-at9AI2 t-e owner only 6new -ow to 0se -is .reat and noble
1ossession* -ow -a11y wo0ld -e be* and w-at .reat res0lts wo0ld -e
a,-ie4eDA
+e./ And wo0ld -e not be j0sti2ied3
At-/ e2le,t) in w-at 1oint o2 4iew does t-is sort o2 1raise
a11ear j0st( "irst* in re2eren,e to t-e ;0estion in -and(9I2 t-e
t-en ,ommanders -ad 6nown -ow to arran.e t-eir army 1ro1erly* -ow
wo0ld t-ey -a4e attained s0,,ess3 Wo0ld not t-is -a4e been t-e way3
#-ey wo0ld -a4e bo0nd t-em all 2irmly to.et-er and 1reser4ed t-em
2or e4er* .i4in. t-em 2reedom and dominion at 1leas0re* ,ombined
wit- t-e 1ower o2 doin. in t-e w-ole world* $elleni, and barbarian*
w-ate4er t-ey and t-eir des,endants desired/ W-at ot-er aim wo0ld t-ey
-a4e -ad3
+e./ 8ery .ood/
At-/ S011ose any one were in t-e same way to e:1ress -is
admiration at t-e si.-t o2 .reat wealt- or 2amily -ono0r* or t-e li6e*
-e wo0ld 1raise t-em 0nder t-e idea t-at t-ro0.- t-em -e wo0ld
attain eit-er all or t-e .reater and ,-ie2 1art o2 w-at -e desires/
+e./ $e wo0ld/
At-/ Well* now* and does not t-e ar.0ment s-ow t-at t-ere is one
,ommon desire o2 all man6ind3
+e./ W-at is it3
At-/ #-e desire w-i,- a man -as* t-at all t-in.s* i2 1ossible9at any
rate* t-in.s -0man9may ,ome to 1ass in a,,ordan,e wit- -is so0l=s
desire/
+e./ Certainly/
At-/ And -a4in. t-is desire always* and at e4ery time o2 li2e* in
yo0t-* in man-ood* in a.e* -e ,annot -el1 always 1rayin. 2or t-e
20l2ilment o2 it/
+e./ !o do0bt/
At-/ And we join in t-e 1rayers o2 o0r 2riends* and as6 2or t-em
w-at t-ey as6 2or t-emsel4es/
+e./ We do/
At-/ %ear is t-e son to t-e 2at-er9t-e yo0n.er to t-e elder/
+e./ O2 ,o0rse/
At-/ And yet t-e son o2ten 1rays to obtain t-in.s w-i,- t-e 2at-er
1rays t-at -e may not obtain/
+e./ W-en t-e son is yo0n. and 2oolis-* yo0 mean3
At-/ 7es) or w-en t-e 2at-er* in t-e dota.e o2 a.e or t-e -eat o2
yo0t-* -a4in. no sense o2 ri.-t and j0sti,e* 1rays wit- 2er4o0r* 0nder
t-e in2l0en,e o2 2eelin.s a6in to t-ose o2 #-ese0s w-en -e ,0rsed
t-e 0n2ort0nate $i11olyt0s* do yo0 ima.ine t-at t-e son* -a4in. a
sense o2 ri.-t and j0sti,e* will join in -is 2at-er=s 1rayers3
+e./ I 0nderstand yo0 to mean t-at a man s-o0ld not desire or be
in a -0rry to -a4e all t-in.s a,,ordin. to -is wis-* 2or -is wis-
may be at 4arian,e wit- -is reason/ B0t e4ery state and e4ery
indi4id0al o0.-t to 1ray and stri4e 2or wisdom/
At-/ 7es) and I remember* and yo0 will remember* w-at I said at
2irst* t-at a statesman and le.islator o0.-t to ordain laws wit- a
4iew to wisdom) w-ile yo0 were ar.0in. t-at t-e .ood law.i4er o0.-t to
order all wit- a 4iew to war/ And to t-is I re1lied t-at t-ere were
2o0r 4irt0es* b0t t-at 01on yo0r 4iew one o2 t-em only was t-e aim
o2 le.islation) w-ereas yo0 o0.-t to re.ard all 4irt0e* and es1e,ially
t-at w-i,- ,omes 2irst* and is t-e leader o2 all t-e rest9I mean
wisdom and mind and o1inion* -a4in. a22e,tion and desire in t-eir
train/ And now t-e ar.0ment ret0rns to t-e same 1oint* and I say
on,e more* in jest i2 yo0 li6e* or in earnest i2 yo0 li6e* t-at t-e
1rayer o2 a 2ool is 20ll o2 dan.er* bein. li6ely to end in t-e
o11osite o2 w-at -e desires/ And i2 yo0 wo0ld rat-er re,ei4e my
words in earnest* I am willin. t-at yo0 s-o0ld) and yo0 will 2ind* I
s0s1e,t* as I -a4e said already* t-at not ,owardi,e was t-e ,a0se o2
t-e r0in o2 t-e %orian 6in.s and o2 t-eir w-ole desi.n* nor
i.noran,e o2 military matters* eit-er on t-e 1art o2 t-e r0lers or
o2 t-eir s0bje,ts) b0t t-eir mis2ort0nes were d0e to t-eir .eneral
de.enera,y* and es1e,ially to t-eir i.noran,e o2 t-e most im1ortant
-0man a22airs/ #-at was t-en* and is still* and always will be t-e
,ase* as I will endea4o0r* i2 yo0 will allow me* to ma6e o0t and
demonstrate as well as I am able to yo0 w-o are my 2riends* in t-e
,o0rse o2 t-e ar.0ment/
Cle/ Pray .o on* Stran.er)9,om1liments are tro0blesome* b0t we
will s-ow* not in word b0t in deed* -ow .reatly we 1ri<e yo0r words*
2or we will .i4e t-em o0r best attention) and t-at is t-e way in w-i,-
a 2reeman best s-ows -is a11ro4al or disa11ro4al/
+e./ E:,ellent* Cleinias) let 0s do as yo0 say/
Cle/ By all means* i2 $ea4en wills/ &o on/
At-/ Well* t-en* 1ro,eedin. in t-e same train o2 t-o0.-t* I say t-at
t-e .reatest i.noran,e was t-e r0in o2 t-e %orian 1ower* and t-at now*
as t-en* i.noran,e is r0in/ And i2 t-is be tr0e* t-e le.islator m0st
endea4o0r to im1lant wisdom in states* and banis- i.noran,e to t-e
0tmost o2 -is 1ower/
Cle/ #-at is e4ident/
At-/ #-en now ,onsider w-at is really t-e .reatest i.noran,e/ I
s-o0ld li6e to 6now w-et-er yo0 and +e.ill0s wo0ld a.ree wit- me in
w-at I am abo0t to say) 2or my o1inion is9
Cle/ W-at3
At-/ #-at t-e .reatest i.noran,e is w-en a man -ates t-at w-i,- -e
ne4ert-eless t-in6s to be .ood and noble* and lo4es and embra,es
t-at w-i,- -e 6nows to be 0nri.-teo0s and e4il/ #-is disa.reement
between t-e sense o2 1leas0re and t-e j0d.ment o2 reason in t-e so0l
is* in my o1inion* t-e worst i.noran,e) and also t-e .reatest* be,a0se
a22e,tin. t-e .reat mass o2 t-e -0man so0l) 2or t-e 1rin,i1le w-i,-
2eels 1leas0re and 1ain in t-e indi4id0al is li6e t-e mass or 1o10la,e
in a state/ And w-en t-e so0l is o11osed to 6nowled.e* or o1inion*
or reason* w-i,- are -er nat0ral lords* t-at I ,all 2olly* j0st as
in t-e state* w-en t-e m0ltit0de re20ses to obey t-eir r0lers and
t-e laws) or* a.ain* in t-e indi4id0al* w-en 2air reasonin.s -a4e
t-eir -abitation in t-e so0l and yet do no .ood* b0t rat-er t-e
re4erse o2 .ood/ All t-ese ,ases I term t-e worst i.noran,e* w-et-er
in indi4id0als or in states/ 7o0 will 0nderstand* Stran.er* t-at I
am s1ea6in. o2 somet-in. w-i,- is 4ery di22erent 2rom t-e i.noran,e o2
-andi,ra2tsmen/
Cle/ 7es* my 2riend* we 0nderstand and a.ree/
At-/ Let 0s* t-en* in t-e 2irst 1la,e de,lare and a22irm t-at t-e
,iti<en w-o does not 6now t-ese t-in.s o0.-t ne4er to -a4e any 6ind o2
a0t-ority entr0sted to -im( -e m0st be sti.mati<ed as i.norant* e4en
t-o0.- -e be 4ersed in ,al,0lation and s6illed in all sorts o2
a,,om1lis-ments* and 2eats o2 mental de:terity) and t-e o11osite are
to be ,alled wise* e4en alt-o0.-* in t-e words o2 t-e 1ro4erb* t-ey
6now neit-er -ow to read nor -ow to swim) and to t-em* as to men o2
sense* a0t-ority is to be ,ommitted/ "or* O my 2riends* -ow ,an
t-ere be t-e least s-adow o2 wisdom w-en t-ere is no -armony3 #-ere is
none) b0t t-e noblest and .reatest o2 -armonies may be tr0ly said to
be t-e .reatest wisdom) and o2 t-is -e is a 1arta6er w-o li4es
a,,ordin. to reason) w-ereas -e w-o is de4oid o2 reason is t-e
destroyer o2 -is -o0se and t-e 4ery o11osite o2 a sa4io0r o2 t-e
state( -e is 0tterly i.norant o2 1oliti,al wisdom/ Let t-is* t-en*
as I was sayin.* be laid down by 0s/
Cle/ Let it be so laid down/
At-/ I s011ose t-at t-ere m0st be r0lers and s0bje,ts in states3
Cle/ Certainly/
At-/ And w-at are t-e 1rin,i1les on w-i,- men r0le and obey in
,ities* w-et-er .reat or small) and similarly in 2amilies3 W-at are
t-ey* and -ow many in n0mber3 Is t-ere not one ,laim o2 a0t-ority
w-i,- is always j0st9t-at o2 2at-ers and mot-ers and in .eneral o2
1ro.enitors to r0le o4er t-eir o22s1rin.3
Cle/ #-ere is/
At-/ !e:t 2ollows t-e 1rin,i1le t-at t-e noble s-o0ld r0le o4er
t-e i.noble) and* t-irdly* t-at t-e elder s-o0ld r0le and t-e
yo0n.er obey3
Cle/ #o be s0re/
At-/ And* 2o0rt-ly* t-at sla4es s-o0ld be r0led* and t-eir masters
r0le3
Cle/ O2 ,o0rse/
At-/ "i2t-ly* i2 I am not mista6en* ,omes t-e 1rin,i1le t-at t-e
stron.er s-all r0le* and t-e wea6er be r0led3
Cle/ #-at is a r0le not to be disobeyed/
At-/ 7es* and a r0le w-i,- 1re4ails 4ery widely amon. all ,reat0res*
and is a,,ordin. to nat0re* as t-e #-eban 1oet Pindar on,e said) and
t-e si:t- 1rin,i1le* and t-e .reatest o2 all* is* t-at t-e wise s-o0ld
lead and ,ommand* and t-e i.norant 2ollow and obey) and yet* O t-o0
most wise Pindar* as I s-o0ld re1ly -im* t-is s0rely is not ,ontrary
to nat0re* b0t a,,ordin. to nat0re* bein. t-e r0le o2 law o4er willin.
s0bje,ts* and not a r0le o2 ,om10lsion/
Cle/ +ost tr0e/
At-/ #-ere is a se4ent- 6ind o2 r0le w-i,- is awarded by lot* and is
dear to t-e &ods and a to6en o2 .ood 2ort0ne( -e on w-om t-e lot 2alls
is a r0ler* and -e w-o 2ails in obtainin. t-e lot .oes away and is t-e
s0bje,t) and t-is we a22irm to be ;0ite j0st/
Cle/ Certainly/
At-/ A#-en now*A as we say 1lay20lly to any o2 t-ose w-o li.-tly
0nderta6e t-e ma6in. o2 laws* Ayo0 see* le.islator* t-e 1rin,i1les
o2 .o4ernment* -ow many t-ey are* and t-at t-ey are nat0rally
o11osed to ea,- ot-er/ #-ere we -a4e dis,o4ered a 2o0ntain9-ead o2
seditions* to w-i,- yo0 m0st attend/ And* 2irst* we will as6 yo0 to
,onsider wit- 0s* -ow and in w-at res1e,t t-e 6in.s o2 Ar.os and
+essene 4iolated t-ese o0r ma:ims* and r0ined t-emsel4es and t-e .reat
and 2amo0s $elleni, 1ower o2 t-e olden time/ Was it be,a0se t-ey did
not 6now -ow wisely $esiod s1o6e w-en -e said t-at t-e -al2 is o2ten
more t-an t-e w-ole3 $is meanin. was* t-at w-en to ta6e t-e w-ole
wo0ld be dan.ero0s* and to ta6e t-e -al2 wo0ld be t-e sa2e and
moderate ,o0rse* t-en t-e moderate or better was more t-an t-e
immoderate or worse/A
Cle/ 8ery tr0e/
At-/ And may we s011ose t-is immoderate s1irit to be more 2atal w-en
2o0nd amon. 6in.s t-an w-en amon. 1eo1les3
Cle/ #-e 1robability is t-at i.noran,e will be a disorder es1e,ially
1re4alent amon. 6in.s* be,a0se t-ey lead a 1ro0d and l0:0rio0s li2e/
At-/ Is it not 1al1able t-at t-e ,-ie2 aim o2 t-e 6in.s o2 t-at time
was to .et t-e better o2 t-e establis-ed laws* and t-at t-ey were
not in -armony wit- t-e 1rin,i1les w-i,- t-ey -ad a.reed to obser4e by
word and oat-3 #-is want o2 -armony may -a4e -ad t-e a11earan,e o2
wisdom* b0t was really* as we assert* t-e .reatest i.noran,e* and
0tterly o4ert-rew t-e w-ole em1ire by dissonan,e and -ars- dis,ord/
Cle/ 8ery li6ely/
At-/ &ood) and w-at meas0res o0.-t t-e le.islator to -a4e t-en ta6en
in order to a4ert t-is ,alamity3 #r0ly t-ere is no .reat wisdom in
6nowin.* and no .reat di22i,0lty in tellin.* a2ter t-e e4il -as
-a11ened) b0t to -a4e 2oreseen t-e remedy at t-e time wo0ld -a4e ta6en
a m0,- wiser -ead t-an o0rs/
+e./ W-at do yo0 mean3
At-/ Any one w-o loo6s at w-at -as o,,0rred wit- yo0 La,edaemonians*
+e.ill0s* may easily 6now and may easily say w-at o0.-t to -a4e been
done at t-at time/
+e./ S1ea6 a little more ,learly/
At-/ !ot-in. ,an be ,learer t-an t-e obser4ation w-i,- I am abo0t to
ma6e/
+e./ W-at is it3
At-/ #-at i2 any one .i4es too .reat a 1ower to anyt-in.* too
lar.e a sail to a 4essel* too m0,- 2ood to t-e body* too m0,-
a0t-ority to t-e mind* and does not obser4e t-e mean* e4eryt-in. is
o4ert-rown* and* in t-e wantonness o2 e:,ess r0ns in t-e one ,ase to
disorders* and in t-e ot-er to inj0sti,e* w-i,- is t-e ,-ild o2
e:,ess/ I mean to say* my dear 2riends* t-at t-ere is no so0l o2
man* yo0n. and irres1onsible* w-o will be able to s0stain t-e
tem1tation o2 arbitrary 1ower9no one w-o will not* 0nder s0,-
,ir,0mstan,es* be,ome 2illed wit- 2olly* t-at worst o2 diseases* and
be -ated by -is nearest and dearest 2riends( w-en t-is -a11ens* -is
6in.dom is 0ndermined* and all -is 1ower 4anis-es 2rom -im/ And
.reat le.islators w-o 6now t-e mean s-o0ld ta6e -eed o2 t-e dan.er/ As
2ar as we ,an .0ess at t-is distan,e o2 time* w-at -a11ened was as
2ollows(9
+e./ W-at3
At-/ A &od* w-o wat,-ed o4er S1arta* seein. into t-e 20t0re* .a4e
yo0 two 2amilies o2 6in.s instead o2 one) and t-0s bro0.-t yo0 more
wit-in t-e limits o2 moderation/ In t-e ne:t 1la,e* some -0man
wisdom min.led wit- di4ine 1ower* obser4in. t-at t-e ,onstit0tion o2
yo0r .o4ernment was still 2e4eris- and e:,ited* tem1ered yo0r inborn
stren.t- and 1ride o2 birt- wit- t-e moderation w-i,- ,omes o2 a.e*
ma6in. t-e 1ower o2 yo0r twenty9ei.-t elders e;0al wit- t-at o2 t-e
6in.s in t-e most im1ortant matters/ B0t yo0r t-ird sa4io0r*
1er,ei4in. t-at yo0r .o4ernment was still swellin. and 2oamin.* and
desiro0s to im1ose a ,0rb 01on it* instit0ted t-e E1-ors* w-ose
1ower -e made to resemble t-at o2 ma.istrates ele,ted by lot) and by
t-is arran.ement t-e 6in.ly o22i,e* bein. ,om1o0nded o2 t-e ri.-t
elements and d0ly moderated* was 1reser4ed* and was t-e means o2
1reser4in. all t-e rest/ Sin,e* i2 t-ere -ad been only t-e ori.inal
le.islators* #emen0s* Cres1-ontes* and t-eir ,ontem1oraries* as 2ar as
t-ey were ,on,erned not e4en t-e 1ortion o2 Aristodem0s wo0ld -a4e
been 1reser4ed) 2or t-ey -ad no 1ro1er e:1erien,e in le.islation* or
t-ey wo0ld s0rely not -a4e ima.ined t-at oat-s wo0ld moderate a
yo0t-20l s1irit in4ested wit- a 1ower w-i,- mi.-t be ,on4erted into
a tyranny/ !ow t-at &od -as instr0,ted 0s w-at sort o2 .o4ernment
wo0ld -a4e been or will be lastin.* t-ere is no wisdom* as I -a4e
already said* in j0d.in. a2ter t-e e4ent) t-ere is no di22i,0lty in
learnin. 2rom an e:am1le w-i,- -as already o,,0rred/ B0t i2 any one
,o0ld -a4e 2oreseen all t-is at t-e time* and -ad been able to
moderate t-e .o4ernment o2 t-e t-ree 6in.doms and 0nite t-em into one*
-e mi.-t -a4e sa4ed all t-e e:,ellent instit0tions w-i,- were t-en
,on,ei4ed) and no Persian or any ot-er armament wo0ld -a4e dared to
atta,6 0s* or wo0ld -a4e re.arded $ellas as a 1ower to be des1ised/
Cle/ #r0e/
At-/ #-ere was small ,redit to 0s* Cleinias* in de2eatin. t-em)
and t-e dis,redit was* not t-at t-e ,on;0erors did not win .lorio0s
4i,tories bot- by land and sea* b0t w-at* in my o1inion* bro0.-t
dis,redit was* 2irst o2 all* t-e ,ir,0mstan,e t-at o2 t-e t-ree ,ities
one only 2o0.-t on be-al2 o2 $ellas* and t-e two ot-ers were so
0tterly .ood 2or not-in. t-at t-e one was wa.in. a mi.-ty war
a.ainst La,edaemon* and was t-0s 1re4entin. -er 2rom renderin.
assistan,e* w-ile t-e ,ity o2 Ar.os* w-i,- -ad t-e 1re,eden,e at t-e
time o2 t-e distrib0tion* w-en as6ed to aid in re1ellin. t-e
barbarian* wo0ld not answer to t-e ,all* or .i4e aid/ +any t-in.s
mi.-t be told abo0t $ellas in ,onne,tion wit- t-at war w-i,- are 2ar
2rom -ono0rable) nor* indeed* ,an we ri.-tly say t-at $ellas
re1elled t-e in4ader) 2or t-e tr0t- is* t-at 0nless t-e At-enians
and La,edaemonians* a,tin. in ,on,ert* -ad warded o22 t-e im1endin.
yo6e* all t-e tribes o2 $ellas wo0ld -a4e been 20sed in a ,-aos o2
$ellenes min.lin. wit- one anot-er* o2 barbarians min.lin. wit-
$ellenes* and $ellenes wit- barbarians) j0st as nations w-o are now
s0bje,t to t-e Persian 1ower* owin. to 0nnat0ral se1arations and
,ombinations o2 t-em* are dis1ersed and s,attered* and li4e miserably/
#-ese* Cleinias and +e.ill0s* are t-e re1roa,-es w-i,- we -a4e to ma6e
a.ainst statesmen and le.islators* as t-ey are ,alled* 1ast and
1resent* i2 we wo0ld analyse t-e ,a0ses o2 t-eir 2ail0re* and 2ind o0t
w-at else mi.-t -a4e been done/ We said* 2or instan,e* j0st now*
t-at t-ere o0.-t to be no .reat and 0nmi:ed 1owers) and t-is was 0nder
t-e idea t-at a state o0.-t to be 2ree and wise and -armonio0s* and
t-at a le.islator o0.-t to le.islate wit- a 4iew to t-is end/ !or is
t-ere any reason to be s0r1rised at o0r ,ontin0ally 1ro1osin. aims 2or
t-e le.islator w-i,- a11ear not to be always t-e same) b0t we s-o0ld
,onsider w-en we say t-at tem1eran,e is to be t-e aim* or wisdom is to
be t-e aim* or 2riends-i1 is to be t-e aim* t-at all t-ese aims are
really t-e same) and i2 so* a 4ariety in t-e modes o2 e:1ression o0.-t
not to dist0rb 0s/
Cle/ Let 0s res0me t-e ar.0ment in t-at s1irit/ And now* s1ea6in. o2
2riends-i1 and wisdom and 2reedom* I wis- t-at yo0 wo0ld tell me at
w-at* in yo0r o1inion* t-e le.islator s-o0ld aim/
At-/ $ear me* t-en( t-ere are two mot-er 2orms o2 states 2rom
w-i,- t-e rest may be tr0ly said to be deri4ed) and one o2 t-em may be
,alled monar,-y and t-e ot-er demo,ra,y( t-e Persians -a4e t-e -i.-est
2orm o2 t-e one* and we o2 t-e ot-er) almost all t-e rest* as I was
sayin.* are 4ariations o2 t-ese/ !ow* i2 yo0 are to -a4e liberty and
t-e ,ombination o2 2riends-i1 wit- wisdom* yo0 m0st -a4e bot- t-ese
2orms o2 .o4ernment in a meas0re) t-e ar.0ment em1-ati,ally de,lares
t-at no ,ity ,an be well .o4erned w-i,- is not made 01 o2 bot-/
Cle/ Im1ossible/
At-/ !eit-er t-e one* i2 it be e:,l0si4ely and e:,essi4ely
atta,-ed to monar,-y* nor t-e ot-er* i2 it be similarly atta,-ed to
2reedom* obser4es moderation) b0t yo0r states* t-e La,onian and
Cretan* -a4e more o2 it) and t-e same was t-e ,ase wit- t-e
At-enians and Persians o2 old time* b0t now t-ey -a4e less/ S-all I
tell yo0 w-y3
Cle/ By all means* i2 it will tend to el0,idate o0r s0bje,t/
At-/ $ear* t-en(9#-ere was a time w-en t-e Persians -ad more o2
t-e state w-i,- is a mean between sla4ery and 2reedom/ In t-e rei.n o2
Cyr0s t-ey were 2reemen and also lords o2 many ot-ers( t-e r0lers .a4e
a s-are o2 2reedom to t-e s0bje,ts* and bein. treated as e;0als* t-e
soldiers were on better terms wit- t-eir .enerals* and s-owed
t-emsel4es more ready in t-e -o0r o2 dan.er/ And i2 t-ere was any wise
man amon. t-em* w-o was able to .i4e .ood ,o0nsel* -e im1arted -is
wisdom to t-e 10bli,) 2or t-e 6in. was not jealo0s* b0t allowed -im
20ll liberty o2 s1ee,-* and .a4e -ono0r to t-ose w-o ,o0ld ad4ise
-im in any matter/ And t-e nation wa:ed in all res1e,ts* be,a0se t-ere
was 2reedom and 2riends-i1 and ,omm0nion o2 mind amon. t-em/
Cle/ #-at ,ertainly a11ears to -a4e been t-e ,ase/
At-/ $ow* t-en* was t-is ad4anta.e lost 0nder Cambyses* and a.ain
re,o4ered 0nder %ari0s3 S-all I try to di4ine3
Cle/ #-e en;0iry* no do0bt* -as a bearin. 01on o0r s0bje,t/
At-/ I ima.ine t-at Cyr0s* t-o0.- a .reat and 1atrioti, .eneral* -ad
ne4er .i4en -is mind to ed0,ation* and ne4er attended to t-e order
o2 -is -o0se-old/
Cle/ W-at ma6es yo0 say so3
At-/ I t-in6 t-at 2rom -is yo0t- 01wards -e was a soldier* and
entr0sted t-e ed0,ation o2 -is ,-ildren to t-e women) and t-ey bro0.-t
t-em 01 2rom t-eir ,-ild-ood as t-e 2a4o0rites o2 2ort0ne* w-o were
blessed already* and needed no more blessin.s/ #-ey t-o0.-t t-at
t-ey were -a11y eno0.-* and t-at no one s-o0ld be allowed to o11ose
t-em in any way* and t-ey ,om1elled e4ery one to 1raise all t-at
t-ey said or did/ #-is was -ow t-ey bro0.-t t-em 01/
Cle/ A s1lendid ed0,ation tr0lyD
At-/ S0,- an one as women were li6ely to .i4e t-em* and es1e,ially
1rin,esses w-o -ad re,ently .rown ri,-* and in t-e absen,e o2 t-e men*
too* w-o were o,,01ied in wars and dan.ers* and -ad no time to loo6
a2ter t-em/
Cle/ W-at wo0ld yo0 e:1e,t3
At-/ #-eir 2at-er -ad 1ossessions o2 ,attle and s-ee1* and many
-erds o2 men and ot-er animals* b0t -e did not ,onsider t-at t-ose
to w-om -e was abo0t to ma6e t-em o4er were not trained in -is own
,allin.* w-i,- was Persian) 2or t-e Persians are s-e1-erds9sons o2 a
r0..ed land* w-i,- is a stern mot-er* and well 2itted to 1rod0,e
st0rdy ra,e able to li4e in t-e o1en air and .o wit-o0t slee1* and
also to 2i.-t* i2 2i.-tin. is re;0ired/ $e did not obser4e t-at -is
sons were trained di22erently) t-ro0.- t-e so9,alled blessin. o2 bein.
royal t-ey were ed0,ated in t-e +edian 2as-ion by women and e0n0,-s*
w-i,- led to t-eir be,omin. s0,- as 1eo1le do be,ome w-en t-ey are
bro0.-t 01 0nre1ro4ed/ And so* a2ter t-e deat- o2 Cyr0s* -is sons*
in t-e 20lness o2 l0:0ry and li,en,e* too6 t-e 6in.dom* and 2irst
one slew t-e ot-er be,a0se -e ,o0ld not end0re a ri4al) and*
a2terwards* t-e slayer -imsel2* mad wit- wine and br0tality* lost
-is 6in.dom t-ro0.- t-e +edes and t-e E0n0,-* as t-ey ,alled -im*
w-o des1ised t-e 2olly o2 Cambyses/
Cle/ So r0ns t-e tale* and s0,- 1robably were t-e 2a,ts/
At-/ 7es) and t-e tradition says* t-at t-e em1ire ,ame ba,6 to t-e
Persians* t-ro0.- %ari0s and t-e se4en ,-ie2s/
Cle/ #r0e/
At-/ Let 0s note t-e rest o2 t-e story/ Obser4e* t-at %ari0s was not
t-e son o2 a 6in.* and -ad not re,ei4ed a l0:0rio0s ed0,ation/ W-en -e
,ame to t-e t-rone* bein. one o2 t-e se4en* -e di4ided t-e ,o0ntry
into se4en 1ortions* and o2 t-is arran.ement t-ere are some s-adowy
tra,es still remainin.) -e made laws 01on t-e 1rin,i1le o2 introd0,in.
0ni4ersal e;0ality in t-e order o2 t-e state* and -e embodied in -is
laws t-e settlement o2 t-e trib0te w-i,- Cyr0s 1romised9t-0s
,reatin. a 2eelin. o2 2riends-i1 and ,omm0nity amon. all t-e Persians*
and atta,-in. t-e 1eo1le to -im wit- money and .i2ts/ $en,e -is armies
,-eer20lly a,;0ired 2or -im ,o0ntries as lar.e as t-ose w-i,- Cyr0s
-ad le2t be-ind -im/ %ari0s was s0,,eeded by -is son Eer:es) and -e
a.ain was bro0.-t 01 in t-e royal and l0:0rio0s 2as-ion/ +i.-t we
not most j0stly say( AO %ari0s* -ow ,ame yo0 to brin. 01 Eer:es in t-e
same way in w-i,- Cyr0s bro0.-t 01 Cambyses* and not to see -is
2atal mista6e3A "or Eer:es* bein. t-e ,reation o2 t-e same
ed0,ation* met wit- m0,- t-e same 2ort0ne as Cambyses) and 2rom t-at
time 0ntil now t-ere -as ne4er been a really .reat 6in. amon. t-e
Persians* alt-o0.- t-ey are all ,alled &reat/ And t-eir de.enera,y
is not to be attrib0ted to ,-an,e* as I maintain) t-e reason is rat-er
t-e e4il li2e w-i,- is .enerally led by t-e sons o2 4ery ri,- and
royal 1ersons) 2or ne4er will boy or man* yo0n. or old* e:,el in
4irt0e* w-o -as been t-0s ed0,ated/ And t-is* I say* is w-at t-e
le.islator -as to ,onsider* and w-at at t-e 1resent moment -as to be
,onsidered by 0s/ J0stly may yo0* O La,edaemonians* be 1raised* in
t-at yo0 do not .i4e s1e,ial -ono0r or a s1e,ial ed0,ation to wealt-
rat-er t-an to 1o4erty* or to a royal rat-er t-an to a 1ri4ate
station* w-ere t-e di4ine and ins1ired law.i4er -as not ori.inally
,ommanded t-em to be .i4en/ "or no man o0.-t to -a4e 1re9eminent
-ono0r in a state be,a0se -e s0r1asses ot-ers in wealt-* any more t-an
be,a0se -e is swi2t o2 2oot or 2air or stron.* 0nless -e -a4e some
4irt0e in -im) nor e4en i2 -e -a4e 4irt0e* 0nless -e -a4e t-is
1arti,0lar 4irt0e o2 tem1eran,e/
+e./ W-at do yo0 mean* Stran.er3
At-/ I s011ose t-at ,o0ra.e is a 1art o2 4irt0e3
+e./ #o be s0re/
At-/ #-en* now -ear and j0d.e 2or yo0rsel2(9Wo0ld yo0 li6e to -a4e
2or a 2ellow9lod.er or nei.-bo0r a 4ery ,o0ra.eo0s man* w-o -ad no
,ontrol o4er -imsel23
+e./ $ea4en 2orbidD
At-/ Or an artist* w-o was ,le4er in -is 1ro2ession* b0t a ro.0e3
+e./ Certainly not/
At-/ And s0rely j0sti,e does not .row a1art 2rom tem1eran,e3
+e./ Im1ossible/
At-/ Any more t-an o0r 1attern wise man* w-om we e:-ibited as -a4in.
-is 1leas0res and 1ains in a,,ordan,e wit- and ,orres1ondin. to tr0e
reason* ,an be intem1erate3
+e./ !o/
At-/ #-ere is a 20rt-er ,onsideration relatin. to t-e d0e and
0nd0e award o2 -ono0rs in states/
+e./ W-at is it3
At-/ I s-o0ld li6e to 6now w-et-er tem1eran,e wit-o0t t-e ot-er
4irt0es* e:istin. alone in t-e so0l o2 man* is ri.-tly to be 1raised
or blamed3
+e./ I ,annot tell/
At-/ And t-at is t-e best answer) 2or w-i,-e4er alternati4e yo0
-ad ,-osen* I t-in6 t-at yo0 wo0ld -a4e .one wron./
+e./ I am 2ort0nate/
At-/ 8ery .ood) a ;0ality* w-i,- is a mere a11enda.e o2 t-in.s w-i,-
,an be 1raised or blamed* does not deser4e an e:1ression o2 o1inion*
b0t is best 1assed o4er in silen,e/
+e./ 7o0 are s1ea6in. o2 tem1eran,e3
At-/ 7es) b0t o2 t-e ot-er 4irt0es* t-at w-i,- -a4in. t-is a11enda.e
is also most bene2i,ial* will be most deser4in. o2 -ono0r* and ne:t
t-at w-i,- is bene2i,ial in t-e ne:t de.ree) and so ea,- o2 t-em
will be ri.-tly -ono0red a,,ordin. to a re.0lar order/
+e./ #r0e/
At-/ And o0.-t not t-e le.islator to determine t-ese ,lasses3
+e./ Certainly -e s-o0ld/
At-/ S011ose t-at we lea4e to -im t-e arran.ement o2 details/ B0t
t-e .eneral di4ision o2 laws a,,ordin. to t-eir im1ortan,e into a
2irst and se,ond and t-ird ,lass* we w-o are lo4ers o2 law may ma6e
o0rsel4es/
+e./ 8ery) .ood/
At-/ We maintain* t-en* t-at a State w-i,- wo0ld be sa2e and
-a11y* as 2ar as t-e nat0re o2 man allows* m0st and o0.-t to
distrib0te -ono0r and dis-ono0r in t-e ri.-t way/ And t-e ri.-t way is
to 1la,e t-e .oods o2 t-e so0l 2irst and -i.-est in t-e s,ale*
always ass0min. tem1eran,e to be t-e ,ondition o2 t-em) and to
assi.n t-e se,ond 1la,e to t-e .oods o2 t-e body) and t-e t-ird
1la,e to money and 1ro1erty/ And it any le.islator or state de1arts
2rom t-is r0le by .i4in. money t-e 1la,e o2 -ono0r* or in any way
1re2errin. t-at w-i,- is really last* may we not say* t-at -e or t-e
state is doin. an 0n-oly and 0n1atrioti, t-in.3
+e./ 7es) let t-at be 1lainly de,lared/
At-/ #-e ,onsideration o2 t-e Persian .o4ernments led 0s t-0s 2ar to
enlar.e/ We remar6ed t-at t-e Persians .rew worse and worse/ And we
a22irm t-e reason o2 t-is to -a4e been* t-at t-ey too m0,-
diminis-ed t-e 2reedom o2 t-e 1eo1le* and introd0,ed too m0,- o2
des1otism* and so destroyed 2riends-i1 and ,omm0nity o2 2eelin./ And
w-en t-ere is an end o2 t-ese* no lon.er do t-e .o4ernors .o4ern on
be-al2 o2 t-eir s0bje,ts or o2 t-e 1eo1le* b0t on be-al2 o2
t-emsel4es) and i2 t-ey t-in6 t-at t-ey ,an .ain e4er so small an
ad4anta.e 2or t-emsel4es* t-ey de4astate ,ities* and send 2ire and
desolation amon. 2riendly ra,es/ And as t-ey -ate r0t-lessly and
-orribly* so are t-ey -ated) and w-en t-ey want t-e 1eo1le to 2i.-t
2or t-em* t-ey 2ind no ,omm0nity o2 2eelin. or willin.ness to ris6
t-eir li4es on t-eir be-al2) t-eir 0ntold myriads are 0seless to
t-em on t-e 2ield o2 battle* and t-ey t-in6 t-at t-eir sal4ation
de1ends on t-e em1loyment o2 mer,enaries and stran.ers w-om t-ey -ire*
as i2 t-ey were in want o2 more men/ And t-ey ,annot -el1 bein.
st01id* sin,e t-ey 1ro,laim by a,tions t-at t-e ordinary
distin,tions o2 ri.-t and wron. w-i,- are made in a state are a
tri2le* w-en ,om1ared wit- .old and sil4er/
+e./ @0ite tr0e/
At-/ And now eno0.- o2 t-e Persians* and t-eir 1resent
maladministration o2 t-eir .o4ernment* w-i,- is owin. to t-e e:,ess o2
sla4ery and des1otism amon. t-em/
+e./ &ood/
At-/ !e:t* we m0st 1ass in re4iew t-e .o4ernment o2 Atti,a in li6e
manner* and 2rom t-is s-ow t-at entire 2reedom and t-e absen,e o2
all s01erior a0t-ority is not by any means so .ood as .o4ernment by
ot-ers w-en 1ro1erly limited* w-i,- was o0r an,ient At-enian
,onstit0tion at t-e time w-en t-e Persians made t-eir atta,6 on
$ellas* or* s1ea6in. more ,orre,tly* on t-e w-ole ,ontinent o2 E0ro1e/
#-ere were 2o0r ,lasses* arran.ed a,,ordin. to a 1ro1erty ,ens0s*
and re4eren,e was o0r ;0een and mistress* and made 0s willin. to
li4e in obedien,e to t-e laws w-i,- t-en 1re4ailed/ Also t-e
4astness o2 t-e Persian armament* bot- by sea and on land* ,a0sed a
-el1less terror* w-i,- made 0s more and more t-e ser4ants o2 o0r
r0lers and o2 t-e laws) and 2or all t-ese reasons an e:,eedin. -armony
1re4ailed amon. 0s/ Abo0t ten years be2ore t-e na4al en.a.ement at
Salamis* %atis ,ame* leadin. a Persian -ost by ,ommand o2 %ari0s*
w-i,- was e:1ressly dire,ted a.ainst t-e At-enians and Eretrians*
-a4in. orders to ,arry t-em away ,a1ti4e) and t-ese orders -e was to
e:e,0te 0nder 1ain o2 deat-/ !ow %atis and -is myriads soon be,ame
,om1lete masters o2 Eretria* and -e sent a 2ear20l re1ort to At-ens
t-at no Eretrian -ad es,a1ed -im) 2or t-e soldiers o2 %atis -ad joined
-ands and netted t-e w-ole o2 Eretria/ And t-is re1ort* w-et-er well
or ill 2o0nded* was terrible to all t-e $ellenes* and abo4e all to t-e
At-enians* and t-ey dis1at,-ed embassies in all dire,tions* b0t no one
was willin. to ,ome to t-eir relie2* wit- t-e e:,e1tion o2 t-e
La,edaemonians) and t-ey* eit-er be,a0se t-ey were detained by t-e
+essenian war* w-i,- was t-en .oin. on* or 2or some ot-er reason o2
w-i,- we are not told* ,ame a day too late 2or t-e battle o2 +arat-on/
A2ter a w-ile* t-e news arri4ed o2 mi.-ty 1re1arations bein. made* and
inn0merable t-reats ,ame 2rom t-e 6in./ #-en* as time went on* a
r0mo0r rea,-ed 0s t-at %ari0s -ad died* and t-at -is son* w-o was
yo0n. and -ot9-eaded* -ad ,ome to t-e t-rone and was 1ersistin. in -is
desi.n/ #-e At-enians were 0nder t-e im1ression t-at t-e w-ole
e:1edition was dire,ted a.ainst t-em* in ,onse;0en,e o2 t-e battle
o2 +arat-on) and -earin. o2 t-e brid.e o4er t-e $elles1ont* and t-e
,anal o2 At-os* and t-e -ost o2 s-i1s* ,onsiderin. t-at t-ere was no
sal4ation 2or t-em eit-er by land or by sea* 2or t-ere was no one to
-el1 t-em* and rememberin. t-at in t-e 2irst e:1edition* w-en t-e
Persians destroyed Eretria* no one ,ame to t-eir -el1* or wo0ld ris6
t-e dan.er o2 an allian,e wit- t-em* t-ey t-o0.-t t-at t-is wo0ld
-a11en a.ain* at least on land) nor* w-en t-ey loo6ed to t-e sea*
,o0ld t-ey des,ry any -o1e o2 sal4ation) 2or t-ey were atta,6ed by a
t-o0sand 4essels and more/ One ,-an,e o2 sa2ety remained* sli.-t
indeed and des1erate* b0t t-eir only one/ #-ey saw t-at on t-e
2ormer o,,asion t-ey -ad .ained a seemin.ly im1ossible 4i,tory* and
borne 01 by t-is -o1e* t-ey 2o0nd t-at t-eir only re20.e was in
t-emsel4es and in t-e &ods/ All t-ese t-in.s ,reated in t-em t-e
s1irit o2 2riends-i1) t-ere was t-e 2ear o2 t-e moment* and t-ere
was t-at -i.-er 2ear* w-i,- t-ey -ad a,;0ired by obedien,e to t-eir
an,ient laws* and w-i,- I -a4e se4eral times in t-e 1re,edin.
dis,o0rse ,alled re4eren,e* o2 w-i,- t-e .ood man o0.-t to be a
willin. ser4ant* and o2 w-i,- t-e ,oward is inde1endent and
2earless/ I2 t-is 2ear -ad not 1ossessed t-em* t-ey wo0ld ne4er -a4e
met t-e enemy* or de2ended t-eir tem1les and se10l,-res and t-eir
,o0ntry* and e4eryt-in. t-at was near and dear to t-em* as t-ey did)
b0t little by little t-ey wo0ld -a4e been all s,attered and dis1ersed/
+e./ 7o0r words* At-enian* are ;0ite tr0e* and wort-y o2 yo0rsel2
and o2 yo0r ,o0ntry/
At-/ #-ey are tr0e* +e.ill0s) and to yo0* w-o -a4e in-erited t-e
4irt0es o2 yo0r an,estors* I may 1ro1erly s1ea6 o2 t-e a,tions o2 t-at
day/ And I wo0ld wis- yo0 and Cleinias to ,onsider w-et-er my words
-a4e not also a bearin. on le.islation) 2or I am not dis,o0rsin.
only 2or t-e 1leas0re o2 tal6in.* b0t 2or t-e ar.0ment=s sa6e/
Please to remar6 t-at t-e e:1erien,e bot- o2 o0rsel4es and t-e
Persians was* in a ,ertain sense* t-e same) 2or as t-ey led t-eir
1eo1le into 0tter ser4it0de* so we too led o0rs into all 2reedom/
And now* -ow s-all we 1ro,eed3 2or I wo0ld li6e yo0 to obser4e t-at
o0r 1re4io0s ar.0ments -a4e .ood deal to say 2or t-emsel4es/
+e./ #r0e) b0t I wis- t-at yo0 wo0ld .i4e 0s a 20ller e:1lanation/
At-/ I will/ 'nder t-e an,ient laws* my 2riends* t-e 1eo1le was
not as now t-e master* b0t rat-er t-e willin. ser4ant o2 t-e laws/
+e./ W-at laws do yo0 mean3
At-/ In t-e 2irst 1la,e* let 0s s1ea6 o2 t-e laws abo0t m0si,9t-at
is to say* s0,- m0si, as t-en e:isted9in order t-at we may tra,e t-e
.rowt- o2 t-e e:,ess o2 2reedom 2rom t-e be.innin./ !ow m0si, was
early di4ided amon. 0s into ,ertain 6inds and manners/ One sort
,onsisted o2 1rayers to t-e &ods* w-i,- were ,alled -ymns) and t-ere
was anot-er and o11osite sort ,alled lamentations* and anot-er
termed 1aeans* and anot-er* ,elebratin. t-e birt- o2 %ionys0s* ,alled*
I belie4e* Adit-yrambs/A And t-ey 0sed t-e a,t0al word Alaws*A or
nomoi* 2or anot-er 6ind o2 son.) and to t-is t-ey added t-e term
A,it-aroedi,/A All t-ese and ot-ers were d0ly distin.0is-ed* nor
were t-e 1er2ormers allowed to ,on20se one style o2 m0si, wit-
anot-er/ And t-e a0t-ority w-i,- determined and .a4e j0d.ment* and
10nis-ed t-e disobedient* was not e:1ressed in a -iss* nor in t-e most
0nm0si,al s-o0ts o2 t-e m0ltit0de* as in o0r days* nor in a11la0se and
,la11in. o2 -ands/ B0t t-e dire,tors o2 10bli, instr0,tion insisted
t-at t-e s1e,tators s-o0ld listen in silen,e to t-e end) and boys
and t-eir t0tors* and t-e m0ltit0de in .eneral* were 6e1t ;0iet by a
-int 2rom a sti,6/ S0,- was t-e .ood order w-i,- t-e m0ltit0de were
willin. to obser4e) t-ey wo0ld ne4er -a4e dared to .i4e j0d.ment by
noisy ,ries/ And t-en* as time went on* t-e 1oets t-emsel4es
introd0,ed t-e rei.n o2 40l.ar and lawless inno4ation/ #-ey were men
o2 .eni0s* b0t t-ey -ad no 1er,e1tion o2 w-at is j0st and law20l in
m0si,) ra.in. li6e Ba,,-anals and 1ossessed wit- inordinate
deli.-ts9min.lin. lamentations wit- -ymns* and 1aeans wit- dit-yrambs)
imitatin. t-e so0nds o2 t-e 2l0te on t-e lyre* and ma6in. one
.eneral ,on20sion) i.norantly a22irmin. t-at m0si, -as no tr0t-*
and* w-et-er .ood or bad* ,an only be j0d.ed o2 ri.-tly by t-e
1leas0re o2 t-e -earer/ And by ,om1osin. s0,- li,entio0s wor6s* and
addin. to t-em words as li,entio0s* t-ey -a4e ins1ired t-e m0ltit0de
wit- lawlessness and boldness* and made t-em 2an,y t-at t-ey ,an j0d.e
2or t-emsel4es abo0t melody and son./ And in t-is way t-e t-eatres
2rom bein. m0te -a4e be,ome 4o,al* as t-o0.- t-ey -ad 0nderstandin. o2
.ood and bad in m0si, and 1oetry) and instead o2 an aristo,ra,y* an
e4il sort o2 t-eatro,ra,y -as .rown 01/ "or i2 t-e demo,ra,y w-i,-
j0d.ed -ad only ,onsisted o2 ed0,ated 1ersons* no 2atal -arm wo0ld
-a4e been done) b0t in m0si, t-ere 2irst arose t-e 0ni4ersal ,on,eit
o2 omnis,ien,e and .eneral lawlessness)92reedom ,ame 2ollowin.
a2terwards* and men* 2an,yin. t-at t-ey 6new w-at t-ey did not 6now*
-ad no lon.er any 2ear* and t-e absen,e o2 2ear be.ets
s-amelessness/ "or w-at is t-is s-amelessness* w-i,- is so e4il a
t-in.* b0t t-e insolent re20sal to re.ard t-e o1inion o2 t-e better by
reason o2 an o4er9darin. sort o2 liberty3
+e./ 8ery tr0e/
At-/ Conse;0ent 01on t-is 2reedom ,omes t-e ot-er 2reedom* o2
disobedien,e to r0lers) and t-en t-e attem1t to es,a1e t-e ,ontrol and
e:-ortation o2 2at-er* mot-er* elders* and w-en near t-e end* t-e
,ontrol o2 t-e laws also) and at t-e 4ery end t-ere is t-e ,ontem1t o2
oat-s and 1led.es* and no re.ard at all 2or t-e &ods9-erein t-ey
e:-ibit and imitate t-e old so ,alled #itani, nat0re* and ,ome to
t-e same 1oint as t-e #itans w-en t-ey rebelled a.ainst &od* leadin. a
li2e o2 endless e4ils/ B0t w-y -a4e I said all t-is3 I as6* be,a0se
t-e ar.0ment o0.-t to be 10lled 01 2rom time to time* and not be
allowed to r0n away* b0t -eld wit- bit and bridle* and t-en we s-all
not* as t-e 1ro4erb says* 2all o22 o0r ass/ Let 0s t-en on,e more
as6 t-e ;0estion* #o w-at end -as all t-is been said3
+e./ 8ery .ood/
At-/ #-is* t-en* -as been said 2or t-e sa6e9
+e./ O2 w-at3
At-/ We were maintainin. t-at t-e law.i4er o0.-t to -a4e t-ree
t-in.s in 4iew( 2irst* t-at t-e ,ity 2or w-i,- -e le.islates s-o0ld be
2ree) and se,ondly* be at 0nity wit- -ersel2) and t-irdly* s-o0ld -a4e
0nderstandin.)9t-ese were o0r 1rin,i1les* were t-ey not3
+e./ Certainly/
At-/ Wit- a 4iew to t-is we sele,ted two 6inds o2 .o4ernment* t-e
des1oti,* and t-e ot-er t-e most 2ree) and now we are ,onsiderin.
w-i,- o2 t-em is t-e ri.-t 2orm( we too6 a mean in bot- ,ases* o2
des1otism in t-e one* and o2 liberty in t-e ot-er* and we saw t-at
in a mean t-ey attained t-eir 1er2e,tion) b0t t-at w-en t-ey were
,arried to t-e e:treme o2 eit-er* sla4ery or li,en,e* neit-er 1arty
were t-e .ainers/
+e./ 8ery tr0e/
At-/ And t-at was o0r reason 2or ,onsiderin. t-e settlement o2 t-e
%orian army* and o2 t-e ,ity b0ilt by %ardan0s at t-e 2oot o2 t-e
mo0ntains* and t-e remo4al o2 ,ities to t-e seas-ore* and o2 o0r
mention o2 t-e 2irst men* w-o were t-e s0r4i4ors o2 t-e del0.e/ And
all t-at was 1re4io0sly said abo0t m0si, and drin6in.* and w-at
1re,eded* was said wit- t-e 4iew o2 seein. -ow a state mi.-t be best
administered* and -ow an indi4id0al mi.-t best order -is own li2e/ And
now* +e.ill0s and Cleinias* -ow ,an we 10t to t-e 1roo2 t-e 4al0e o2
o0r words3
Cle/ Stran.er* I t-in6 t-at I see -ow a 1roo2 o2 t-eir 4al0e may
be obtained/ #-is dis,0ssion o2 o0rs a11ears to me to -a4e been
sin.0larly 2ort0nate* and j0st w-at I at t-is moment want) most
a0s1i,io0sly -a4e yo0 and my 2riend +e.ill0s ,ome in my way/ "or I
will tell yo0 w-at -as -a11ened to me) and I re.ard t-e ,oin,iden,e as
a sort o2 omen/ #-e .reater 1art o2 Crete is .oin. to send o0t a
,olony* and t-ey -a4e entr0sted t-e mana.ement o2 t-e a22air to t-e
Cnosians) and t-e Cnosian .o4ernment to me and nine ot-ers/ And t-ey
desire 0s to .i4e t-em any laws w-i,- we 1lease* w-et-er ta6en 2rom
t-e Cretan model or 2rom any ot-er) and t-ey do not mind abo0t t-eir
bein. 2orei.n i2 t-ey are better/ &rant me t-en t-is 2a4o0r* w-i,-
will also be a .ain to yo0rsel4es(9Let 0s ma6e a sele,tion 2rom w-at
-as been said* and t-en let 0s ima.ine a State o2 w-i,- we will
s011ose o0rsel4es to be t-e ori.inal 2o0nders/ #-0s we s-all 1ro,eed
wit- o0r en;0iry* and* at t-e same time* I may -a4e t-e 0se o2 t-e
2ramewor6 w-i,- yo0 are ,onstr0,tin.* 2or t-e ,ity w-i,- is in
,ontem1lation/
At-/ &ood news* Cleinias) i2 +e.ill0s -as no obje,tion* yo0 may
be s0re t-at I will do all in my 1ower to 1lease yo0/
Cle/ #-an6 yo0/
+e./ And so will I/
Cle/ E:,ellent) and now let 0s be.in to 2rame t-e State/
BOOK I8
At-enian Stran.er/ And now* w-at will t-is ,ity be3 I do not mean to
as6 w-at is or will -erea2ter be t-e name o2 t-e 1la,e) t-at may be
determined by t-e a,,ident o2 lo,ality or o2 t-e ori.inal settlement9a
ri4er or 2o0ntain* or some lo,al deity may .i4e t-e san,tion o2 a name
to t-e newly92o0nded ,ity) b0t I do want to 6now w-at t-e sit0ation
is* w-et-er maritime or inland/
Cleinias/ I s-o0ld ima.ine* Stran.er* t-at t-e ,ity o2 w-i,- we
are s1ea6in. is abo0t ei.-ty stadia distant 2rom t-e sea/
At-/ And are t-ere -arbo0rs on t-e seaboard3
Cle/ E:,ellent -arbo0rs* Stran.er) t-ere ,o0ld not be better/
At-/ AlasD w-at a 1ros1e,tD And is t-e s0rro0ndin. ,o0ntry
1rod0,ti4e* or in need o2 im1ortations3
Cle/ $ardly in need o2 anyt-in./
At-/ And is t-ere any nei.-bo0rin. State3
Cle/ !one w-ate4er* and t-at is t-e reason 2or sele,tin. t-e
1la,e) in days o2 old* t-ere was a mi.ration o2 t-e in-abitants* and
t-e re.ion -as been deserted 2rom time immemorial/
At-/ And -as t-e 1la,e a 2air 1ro1ortion o2 -ill* and 1lain* and
wood3
Cle/ Li6e t-e rest o2 Crete in t-at/
At-/ 7o0 mean to say t-at t-ere is more ro,6 t-an 1lain3
Cle/ E:a,tly/
At-/ #-en t-ere is some -o1e t-at yo0r ,iti<ens may be 4irt0o0s( -ad
yo0 been on t-e sea* and well 1ro4ided wit- -arbo0rs* and an im1ortin.
rat-er t-an a 1rod0,in. ,o0ntry* some mi.-ty sa4io0r wo0ld -a4e been
needed* and law.i4ers more t-an mortal* i2 yo0 were e4er to -a4e a
,-an,e o2 1reser4in. yo0r state 2rom de.enera,y and dis,ordan,e o2
manners/ B0t t-ere is ,om2ort in t-e ei.-ty stadia) alt-o0.- t-e sea
is too near* es1e,ially i2* as yo0 say* t-e -arbo0rs are so .ood/
Still we may be ,ontent/ #-e sea is 1leasant eno0.- as a daily
,om1anion* b0t -as indeed also a bitter and bra,6is- ;0ality)
2illin. t-e streets wit- mer,-ants and s-o16ee1ers* and be.ettin. in
t-e so0ls o2 men 0n,ertain and 0n2ait-20l ways9ma6in. t-e state
0n2riendly and 0n2ait-20l bot- to -er own ,iti<ens* and also to
ot-er nations/ #-ere is a ,onsolation* t-ere2ore* in t-e ,o0ntry
1rod0,in. all t-in.s at -ome) and yet* owin. to t-e r0..edness o2
t-e soil* not 1ro4idin. anyt-in. in .reat ab0ndan,e/ $ad t-ere been
ab0ndan,e* t-ere mi.-t -a4e been a .reat e:1ort trade* and a .reat
ret0rn o2 .old and sil4er) w-i,-* as we may sa2ely a22irm* -as t-e
most 2atal res0lts on a State w-ose aim is t-e attainment o2 j0st
and noble sentiments( t-is was said by 0s* i2 yo0 remember* in t-e
1re4io0s dis,0ssion/
Cle/ I remember* and am o2 o1inion t-at we bot- were and are in
t-e ri.-t/
At-/ Well* b0t let me as6* -ow is t-e ,o0ntry s011lied wit- timber
2or s-i19b0ildin.3
Cle/ #-ere is no 2ir o2 any ,onse;0en,e* nor 1ine* and not m0,-
,y1ress) and yo0 will 2ind 4ery little stone91ine or 1lane9wood* w-i,-
s-i1wri.-ts always re;0ire 2or t-e interior o2 s-i1s/
At-/ #-ese are also nat0ral ad4anta.es/
Cle/ W-y so3
At-/ Be,a0se no ,ity o0.-t to be easily able to imitate its
enemies in w-at is mis,-ie4o0s/
Cle/ $ow does t-at bear 01on any o2 t-e matters o2 w-i,- we -a4e
been s1ea6in.3
At-/ emember* my .ood 2riend* w-at I said at 2irst abo0t t-e Cretan
laws* t-at t-ey loo6 to one t-in. only* and t-is* as yo0 bot-
a.reed* was war) and I re1lied t-at s0,- laws* in so 2ar as t-ey
tended to 1romote 4irt0e* were .ood) b0t in t-at t-ey re.arded a
1art only* and not t-e w-ole o2 4irt0e* I disa11ro4ed o2 t-em/ And now
I -o1e t-at yo0 in yo0r t0rn will 2ollow and wat,- me i2 I le.islate
wit- a 4iew to anyt-in. b0t 4irt0e* or wit- a 4iew to a 1art o2 4irt0e
only/ "or I ,onsider t-at t-e tr0e law.i4er* li6e an ar,-er* aims only
at t-at on w-i,- some eternal bea0ty is always attendin.* and
dismisses e4eryt-in. else* w-et-er wealt- or any ot-er bene2it* w-en
se1arated 2rom 4irt0e/ I was sayin. t-at t-e imitation o2 enemies
was a bad t-in.) and I was t-in6in. o2 a ,ase in w-i,- a maritime
1eo1le are -arassed by enemies* as t-e At-enians were by +inos >I do
not s1ea6 2rom any desire to re,all 1ast .rie4an,es?) b0t -e* as we
6now* was a .reat na4al 1otentate* w-o ,om1elled t-e in-abitants o2
Atti,a to 1ay -im a ,r0el trib0te) and in t-ose days t-ey -ad no s-i1s
o2 war as t-ey now -a4e* nor was t-e ,o0ntry 2illed wit-
s-i19timber* and t-ere2ore t-ey ,o0ld not readily b0ild t-em/ $en,e
t-ey ,o0ld not learn -ow to imitate t-eir enemy at sea* and in t-is
way* be,omin. sailors t-emsel4es* dire,tly re1el t-eir enemies/ Better
2or t-em to -a4e lost many times o4er t-e se4en yo0t-s* t-an t-at
-ea4y9armed and stationary troo1s s-o0ld -a4e been t0rned into
sailors* and a,,0stomed to be o2ten lea1in. on s-ore* and a.ain to
,ome r0nnin. ba,6 to t-eir s-i1s) or s-o0ld -a4e 2an,ied t-at t-ere
was no dis.ra,e in not awaitin. t-e atta,6 o2 an enemy and dyin.
boldly) and t-at t-ere were .ood reasons* and 1lenty o2 t-em* 2or a
man t-rowin. away -is arms* and beta6in. -imsel2 to 2li.-t9w-i,- is
not dis-ono0rable* as 1eo1le say* at ,ertain times/ #-is is t-e
lan.0a.e o2 na4al war2are* and is anyt-in. b0t wort-y o2 e:traordinary
1raise/ "or we s-o0ld not tea,- bad -abits* least o2 all to t-e best
1art o2 t-e ,iti<ens/ 7o0 may learn t-e e4il o2 s0,- a 1ra,ti,e 2rom
$omer* by w-om Odysse0s is introd0,ed* reb06in. A.amemnon be,a0se -e
desires to draw down t-e s-i1s to t-e sea at a time w-en t-e
A,-aeans are -ard 1ressed by t-e #rojans9-e .ets an.ry wit- -im* and
says(
W-o* at a time w-en t-e battle is in 20ll ,ry* biddest to dra. t-e
well9ben,-ed s-i1s into t-e sea* t-at t-e 1rayers o2 t-e #rojans may
be a,,om1lis-ed yet more* and -i.- r0in 2alls 01on 0s/ "or t-e
A,-aeans will not maintain t-e battle* w-en t-e s-i1s are drawn into
t-e sea* b0t t-ey will loo6 be-ind and will ,ease 2rom stri2e) in t-at
t-e ,o0nsel w-i,- yo0 .i4e will 1ro4e inj0rio0s/
7o0 see t-at -e ;0ite 6new triremes on t-e sea* in t-e nei.-bo0r-ood
o2 2i.-tin. men* to be an e4il)9lions mi.-t be trained in t-at way
to 2ly 2rom a -erd o2 deer/ +oreo4er* na4al 1owers w-i,- owe t-eir
sa2ety to s-i1s* do not .i4e -ono0r to t-at sort o2 warli6e e:,ellen,e
w-i,- is most deser4in. o2 it/ "or -e w-o owes -is sa2ety to t-e 1ilot
and t-e ,a1tain* and t-e oarsman* and all sorts o2 rat-er in2erior
1ersons ,annot ri.-tly .i4e -ono0r to w-om -ono0r is d0e/ B0t -ow
,an a state be in a ri.-t ,ondition w-i,- ,annot j0stly award -ono0r3
Cle/ It is -ardly 1ossible* I admit) and yet* Stran.er* we Cretans
are in t-e -abit o2 sayin. t-at t-e battle o2 Salamis was t-e
sal4ation o2 $ellas/
At-/ W-y* yes) and t-at is an o1inion w-i,- is widely s1read bot-
amon. $ellenes and barbarians/ B0t +e.ill0s and I say rat-er* t-at t-e
battle o2 +arat-on was t-e be.innin.* and t-e battle o2 Plataea t-e
,om1letion* o2 t-e .reat deli4eran,e* and t-at t-ese battles by land
made t-e $ellenes better) w-ereas t-e sea92i.-ts o2 Salamis and
Artemisi0m92or I may as well 10t t-em bot- to.et-er9made t-em no
better* i2 I may say so wit-o0t o22en,e abo0t t-e battles w-i,- -el1ed
to sa4e 0s/ And in estimatin. t-e .oodness o2 a state* we re.ard
bot- t-e sit0ation o2 t-e ,o0ntry and t-e order o2 t-e laws*
,onsiderin. t-at t-e mere 1reser4ation and ,ontin0an,e o2 li2e is
not t-e most -ono0rable t-in. 2or men* as t-e 40l.ar t-in6* b0t t-e
,ontin0an,e o2 t-e best li2e* w-ile we li4e) and t-at a.ain* i2 I am
jot mista6en* is remar6 w-i,- -as been made already/
Cle/ 7es/
At-/ #-en we -a4e only to as6 w-et-er we are ta6in. t-e ,o0rse w-i,-
we a,6nowled.e to be t-e best 2or t-e settlement and le.islation o2
states/
Cle/ #-e best by 2ar/
At-/ And now let me 1ro,eed to anot-er ;0estion( W-o are to be t-e
,olonists3 +ay any one ,ome o0t o2 all Crete) and is t-e idea t-at t-e
1o10lation in t-e se4eral states is too n0mero0s 2or t-e means o2
s0bsisten,e3 "or I s011ose t-at yo0 are not .oin. to send o0t a
.eneral in4itation to any $ellene w-o li6es to ,ome/ And yet I obser4e
t-at to yo0r ,o0ntry settlers -a4e ,ome 2rom Ar.os and Ae.ina and
ot-er 1arts o2 $ellas/ #ell me* t-en* w-en,e do yo0 draw yo0r re,r0its
in t-e 1resent enter1rise3
Cle/ #-ey will ,ome 2rom all Crete) and o2 ot-er $ellenes*
Pelo1onnesians will be most a,,e1table/ "or* as yo0 tr0ly obser4e*
t-ere are Cretans o2 Ar.i4e des,ent) and t-e ra,e o2 Cretans w-i,- -as
t-e -i.-est ,-ara,ter at t-e 1resent day is t-e &ortynian* and t-is
-as ,ome 2rom &ortys in t-e Pelo1onnes0s/
At-/ Cities 2ind ,oloni<ation in some res1e,ts easier i2 t-e
,olonists are one ra,e* w-i,- li6e a swarm o2 bees is sent o0t 2rom
a sin.le ,o0ntry* eit-er w-en 2riends lea4e 2riends* owin. to some
1ress0re o2 1o10lation or ot-er similar ne,essity* or w-en a 1ortion
o2 a state is dri4en by 2a,tions to emi.rate/ And t-ere -a4e been
w-ole ,ities w-i,- -a4e ta6en 2li.-t w-en 0tterly ,on;0ered by a
s01erior 1ower in war/ #-is* -owe4er* w-i,- is in one way an ad4anta.e
to t-e ,olonist or le.islator* in anot-er 1oint o2 4iew ,reates a
di22i,0lty/ #-ere is an element o2 2riends-i1 in t-e ,omm0nity o2
ra,e* and lan.0a.e* and lan.0a.e* and laws* and in ,ommon tem1les
and rites o2 wors-i1) b0t ,olonies w-i,- are o2 t-is -omo.eneo0s
sort are a1t to 6i,6 a.ainst any laws or any 2orm o2 ,onstit0tion
di22erin. 2rom t-at w-i,- t-ey -ad at -ome) and alt-o0.- t-e badness
o2 t-eir own laws may -a4e been t-e ,a0se o2 t-e 2a,tions w-i,-
1re4ailed amon. t-em* yet 2rom t-e 2or,e o2 -abit t-ey wo0ld 2ain
1reser4e t-e 4ery ,0stoms w-i,- were t-eir r0in* and t-e leader o2 t-e
,olony* w-o is t-eir le.islator* 2inds t-em tro0blesome and
rebellio0s/ On t-e ot-er -and* t-e ,on2l0: o2 se4eral 1o10lations
mi.-t be more dis1osed to listen to new laws) b0t t-en* to ma6e t-em
,ombine and 10ll to.et-er* as t-ey say o2 -orses* is a most
di22i,0lt tas6* and t-e wor6 o2 years/ And yet t-ere is not-in.
w-i,- tends more to t-e im1ro4ement o2 man6ind t-an le.islation and
,oloni<ation/
Cle/ !o do0bt) b0t I s-o0ld li6e to 6now w-y yo0 say so/
At-/ +y .ood 2riend* I am a2raid t-at t-e ,o0rse o2 my
s1e,0lations is leadin. me to say somet-in. de1re,iatory o2
le.islators) b0t i2 t-e word be to t-e 10r1ose* t-ere ,an be no
-arm/ And yet* w-y am I dis;0ieted* 2or I belie4e t-at t-e same
1rin,i1le a11lies e;0ally to all -0man t-in.s3
Cle/ #o w-at are yo0 re2errin.3
At-/ I was .oin. to say t-at man ne4er le.islates* b0t a,,idents
o2 all sorts* w-i,- le.islate 2or 0s in all sorts o2 ways/ #-e
4iolen,e o2 war and t-e -ard ne,essity o2 1o4erty are ,onstantly
o4ert0rnin. .o4ernments and ,-an.in. laws/ And t-e 1ower o2 dis,ase
-as o2ten ,a0sed inno4ations in t-e state* w-en t-ere -a4e been
1estilen,es* or w-en t-ere -as been a s0,,ession o2 bad seasons
,ontin0in. d0rin. many years/ Any one w-o sees all t-is* nat0rally
r0s-es to t-e ,on,l0sion o2 w-i,- I was s1ea6in.* t-at no mortal
le.islates in anyt-in.* b0t t-at in -0man a22airs ,-an,e is almost
e4eryt-in./ And t-is may be said o2 t-e arts o2 t-e sailor* and t-e
1ilot* and t-e 1-ysi,ian* and t-e .eneral* and may seem to be well
said) and yet t-ere is anot-er t-in. w-i,- may be said wit- e;0al
tr0t- o2 all o2 t-em/
Cle/ W-at is it3
At-/ #-at &od .o4erns all t-in.s* and t-at ,-an,e and o11ort0nity
,o9o1erate wit- -im in t-e .o4ernment o2 -0man a22airs/ #-ere is*
-owe4er* a t-ird and less e:treme 4iew* t-at art s-o0ld be t-ere also)
2or I s-o0ld say t-at in a storm t-ere m0st s0rely be a .reat
ad4anta.e in -a4in. t-e aid o2 t-e 1ilot=s art/ 7o0 wo0ld a.ree3
Cle/ 7es/
At-/ And does not a li6e 1rin,i1le a11ly to le.islation as well as
to ot-er t-in.s( e4en s011osin. all t-e ,onditions to be 2a4o0rable
w-i,- are needed 2or t-e -a11iness o2 t-e state* yet t-e tr0e
le.islator m0st 2rom time to time a11ear on t-e s,ene3
Cle/ +ost tr0e/
At-/ In ea,- ,ase t-e artist wo0ld be able to 1ray ri.-tly 2or
,ertain ,onditions* and i2 t-ese were .ranted by 2ort0ne* -e wo0ld
t-en only re;0ire to e:er,ise -is art3
Cle/ Certainly/
At-/ And all t-e ot-er artists j0st now mentioned* i2 t-ey were
bidden to o22er 01 ea,- t-eir s1e,ial 1rayer* wo0ld do so3
Cle/ O2 ,o0rse/
At-/ And t-e le.islator wo0ld do li6ewise3
Cle/ I belie4e t-at -e wo0ld/
At-/ ACome* le.islator*A we will say to -im) Aw-at are t-e
,onditions w-i,- yo0 re;0ire in a state be2ore yo0 ,an or.ani<e it3A
$ow o0.-t -e to answer t-is ;0estion3 S-all I .i4e -is answer3
Cle/ 7es/
At-/ $e will say9A&i4e me a state w-i,- is .o4erned by a tyrant* and
let t-e tyrant be yo0n. and -a4e a .ood memory) let -im be ;0i,6 at
learnin.* and o2 a ,o0ra.eo0s and noble nat0re) let -im -a4e t-at
;0ality w-i,-* as I said be2ore* is t-e inse1arable ,om1anion o2 all
t-e ot-er 1arts o2 4irt0e* i2 t-ere is to be any .ood in t-em/A
Cle/ I s011ose* +e.ill0s* t-at t-is ,om1anion 4irt0e o2 w-i,- t-e
Stran.er s1ea6s* m0st be tem1eran,e3
At-/ 7es* Cleinias* tem1eran,e in t-e 40l.ar sense) not t-at w-i,-
in t-e 2or,ed and e:a..erated lan.0a.e o2 some 1-iloso1-ers is
,alled 1r0den,e* b0t t-at w-i,- is t-e nat0ral .i2t o2 ,-ildren and
animals* o2 w-om some li4e ,ontinently and ot-ers in,ontinently* b0t
w-en isolated* was as we said* -ardly wort- re,6onin. in t-e ,atalo.0e
o2 .oods/ I t-in6 t-at yo0 m0st 0nderstand my meanin./
Cle/ Certainly/
At-/ #-en o0r tyrant m0st -a4e t-is as well as t-e ot-er
;0alities* i2 t-e state is to a,;0ire in t-e best manner and in t-e
s-ortest time t-e 2orm o2 .o4ernment w-i,- is most ,ond0,i4e to
-a11iness) 2or t-ere neit-er is nor e4er will be a better or
s1eedier way o2 establis-in. a 1olity t-an by a tyranny/
Cle/ By w-at 1ossible ar.0ments* Stran.er* ,an any man 1ers0ade
-imsel2 o2 s0,- a monstro0s do,trine3
At-/ #-ere is s0rely no di22i,0lty in seein.* Cleinias* w-at is in
a,,ordan,e wit- t-e order o2 nat0re3
Cle/ 7o0 wo0ld ass0me* as yo0 say* a tyrant w-o was yo0n.*
tem1erate* ;0i,6 at learnin.* -a4in. a .ood memory* ,o0ra.eo0s* o2 a
noble nat0re3
At-/ 7es) and yo0 m0st add 2ort0nate) and -is .ood 2ort0ne m0st be
t-at -e is t-e ,ontem1orary o2 a .reat le.islator* and t-at some -a11y
,-an,e brin.s t-em to.et-er/ W-en t-is -as been a,,om1lis-ed* &od
-as done all t-at -e e4er does 2or a state w-i,- -e desires to be
eminently 1ros1ero0s) $e -as done se,ond best 2or a state in w-i,-
t-ere are two s0,- r0lers* and t-ird best 2or a state in w-i,- t-ere
are t-ree/ #-e di22i,0lty in,reases wit- t-e in,rease* and
diminis-es wit- t-e dimin0tion o2 t-e n0mber/
Cle/ 7o0 mean to say* I s011ose* t-at t-e best .o4ernment is
1rod0,ed 2rom a tyranny* and ori.inates in a .ood law.i4er and an
orderly tyrant* and t-at t-e ,-an.e 2rom s0,- a tyranny into a 1er2e,t
2orm o2 .o4ernment ta6es 1la,e most easily) less easily w-en 2rom an
oli.ar,-y) and* in t-e t-ird de.ree* 2rom a demo,ra,y( is not t-at
yo0r meanin.3
At-/ !ot so) I mean rat-er to say t-at t-e ,-an.e is best made o0t
o2 a tyranny) and se,ondly* o0t o2 a monar,-y) and t-irdly* o0t o2
some sort o2 demo,ra,y( 2o0rt-* in t-e ,a1a,ity 2or im1ro4ement* ,omes
oli.ar,-y* w-i,- -as t-e .reatest di22i,0lty in admittin. o2 s0,- a
,-an.e* be,a0se t-e .o4ernment is in t-e -ands o2 a n0mber o2
1otentates/ I am s011osin. t-at t-e le.islator is by nat0re o2 t-e
tr0e sort* and t-at -is stren.t- is 0nited wit- t-at o2 t-e ,-ie2
men o2 t-e state) and w-en t-e r0lin. element is n0meri,ally small*
and at t-e same time 4ery stron.* as in a tyranny* t-ere t-e ,-an.e is
li6ely to be easiest and most ra1id/
Cle/ $ow3 I do not 0nderstand/
At-/ And yet I -a4e re1eated w-at I am sayin. a .ood many times) b0t
I s011ose t-at yo0 -a4e ne4er seen a ,ity w-i,- is 0nder a tyranny3
Cle/ !o* and I ,annot say t-at I -a4e any .reat desire to see one/
At-/ And yet* w-ere t-ere is a tyranny* yo0 mi.-t ,ertainly see t-at
o2 w-i,- I am now s1ea6in./
Cle/ W-at do yo0 mean3
At-/ I mean t-at yo0 mi.-t see -ow* wit-o0t tro0ble and in no 4ery
lon. 1eriod o2 time* t-e tyrant* i2 -e wis-es* ,an ,-an.e t-e
manners o2 a state( -e -as only to .o in t-e dire,tion o2 4irt0e or o2
4i,e* w-i,-e4er -e 1re2ers* -e -imsel2 indi,atin. by -is e:am1le t-e
lines o2 ,ond0,t* 1raisin. and rewardin. some a,tions and re1ro4in.
ot-ers* and de.radin. t-ose w-o disobey/
Cle/ B0t -ow ,an we ima.ine t-at t-e ,iti<ens in .eneral will at
on,e 2ollow t-e e:am1le set to t-em) and -ow ,an -e -a4e t-is 1ower
bot- o2 1ers0adin. and o2 ,om1ellin. t-em3
At-/ Let no one* my 2riends* 1ers0ade 0s t-at t-ere is any ;0i,6er
and easier way in w-i,- states ,-an.e t-eir laws t-an w-en t-e
r0lers lead( s0,- ,-an.es ne4er -a4e* nor e4er will* ,ome to 1ass in
any ot-er way/ #-e real im1ossibility or di22i,0lty is o2 anot-er
sort* and is rarely s0rmo0nted in t-e ,o0rse o2 a.es) b0t w-en on,e it
is s0rmo0nted* ten t-o0sand or rat-er all blessin.s 2ollow/
Cle/ O2 w-at are yo0 s1ea6in.3
At-/ #-e di22i,0lty is to 2ind t-e di4ine lo4e o2 tem1erate and j0st
instit0tions e:istin. in any 1ower20l 2orms o2 .o4ernment* w-et-er
in a monar,-y or oli.ar,-y o2 wealt- or o2 birt-/ 7o0 mi.-t as well
-o1e to re1rod0,e t-e ,-ara,ter o2 !estor* w-o is said to -a4e
e:,elled all men in t-e 1ower o2 s1ee,-* and yet more in -is
tem1eran,e/ #-is* -owe4er* a,,ordin. to t-e tradition* was in t-e
times o2 #roy) in o0r own days t-ere is not-in. o2 t-e sort) b0t i2
s0,- an one eit-er -as or e4er s-all ,ome into bein.* or is now
amon. 0s* blessed is -e and blessed are t-ey w-o -ear t-e wise words
t-at 2low 2rom -is li1s/ And t-is may be said o2 1ower in .eneral(
W-en t-e s01reme 1ower in man ,oin,ides wit- t-e .reatest wisdom and
tem1eran,e* t-en t-e best laws and t-e best ,onstit0tion ,ome into
bein.) b0t in no ot-er way/ And let w-at I -a4e been sayin. be
re.arded as a 6ind o2 sa,red le.end or ora,le* and let t-is be o0r
1roo2 t-at* in one 1oint o2 4iew* t-ere may be a di22i,0lty 2or a ,ity
to -a4e .ood laws* b0t t-at t-ere is anot-er 1oint o2 4iew in w-i,-
not-in. ,an be easier or sooner e22e,ted* .rantin. o0r s011osition/
Cle/ $ow do yo0 mean3
At-/ Let 0s try to am0se o0rsel4es* old boys as we are* by
mo0ldin. in words t-e laws w-i,- are s0itable to yo0r state/
Cle/ Let 0s 1ro,eed wit-o0t delay/
At-/ #-en let 0s in4o6e &od at t-e settlement o2 o0r state) may -e
-ear and be 1ro1itio0s to 0s* and ,ome and set in order t-e State
and t-e lawsD
Cle/ +ay -e ,omeD
At-/ B0t w-at 2orm o2 1olity are we .oin. to .i4e t-e ,ity3
Cle/ #ell 0s w-at yo0 mean a little more ,learly/ %o yo0 mean some
2orm o2 demo,ra,y* or oli.ar,-y* or aristo,ra,y* or monar,-y3 "or we
,annot s011ose t-at yo0 wo0ld in,l0de tyranny/
At-/ W-i,- o2 yo0 will 2irst tell me to w-i,- o2 t-ese ,lasses -is
own .o4ernment is to be re2erred3
+e.ill0s/ O0.-t I to answer 2irst* sin,e I am t-e elder3
Cle/ Per-a1s yo0 s-o0ld/
+e./ And yet* Stran.er* I 1er,ei4e t-at I ,annot say* wit-o0t more
t-o0.-t* w-at I s-o0ld ,all t-e .o4ernment o2 La,edaemon* 2or it seems
to me to be li6e a tyranny9t-e 1ower o2 o0r E1-ors is mar4ello0sly
tyranni,al) and sometimes it a11ears to me to be o2 all ,ities t-e
most demo,rati,al) and w-o ,an reasonably deny t-at it is an
aristo,ra,y3 We -a4e also a monar,-y w-i,- is -eld 2or li2e* and is
said by all man6ind* and not by o0rsel4es only* to be t-e most an,ient
o2 all monar,-ies) and* t-ere2ore* w-en as6ed on a s0dden* I ,annot
1re,isely say w-i,- 2orm o2 .o4ernment t-e S1artan is/
Cle/ I am in t-e same di22i,0lty* +e.ill0s) 2or I do not 2eel
,on2ident t-at t-e 1olity o2 Cnos0s is any o2 t-ese/
At-/ #-e reason is* my e:,ellent 2riends* t-at yo0 really -a4e
1olities* b0t t-e states o2 w-i,- we were j0st now s1ea6in. are merely
a..re.ations o2 men dwellin. in ,ities w-o are t-e s0bje,ts and
ser4ants o2 a 1art o2 t-eir own state* and ea,- o2 t-em is named a2ter
t-e dominant 1ower) t-ey are not 1olities at all/ B0t i2 states are to
be named a2ter t-eir r0lers* t-e tr0e state o0.-t to be ,alled by
t-e name o2 t-e &od w-o r0les o4er wise men/
Cle/ And w-o is t-is &od3
At-/ +ay I still ma6e 0se o2 2able to some e:tent* in t-e -o1e
t-at I may be better able to answer yo0r ;0estion( s-all I3
Cle/ By all means/
At-/ In t-e 1rime4al world* and a lon. w-ile be2ore t-e ,ities
,ame into bein. w-ose settlements we -a4e des,ribed* t-ere is said
to -a4e been in t-e time o2 Cronos a blessed r0le and li2e* o2 w-i,-
t-e best9ordered o2 e:istin. states is a ,o1y/
Cle/ It will be 4ery ne,essary to -ear abo0t t-at/
At-/ I ;0ite a.ree wit- yo0) and t-ere2ore I -a4e introd0,ed t-e
s0bje,t/
Cle/ +ost a11ro1riately) and sin,e t-e tale is to t-e 1oint* yo0
will do well in .i4in. 0s t-e w-ole story/
At-/ I will do as yo0 s0..est/ #-ere is a tradition o2 t-e -a11y
li2e o2 man6ind in days w-en all t-in.s were s1ontaneo0s and ab0ndant/
And o2 t-is t-e reason is said to -a4e been as 2ollows(9Cronos 6new
w-at we o0rsel4es were de,larin.* t-at no -0man nat0re in4ested wit-
s01reme 1ower is able to order -0man a22airs and not o4er2low wit-
insolen,e and wron./ W-i,- re2le,tion led -im to a11oint not men b0t
demi.ods* w-o are o2 a -i.-er and more di4ine ra,e* to be t-e 6in.s
and r0lers o2 o0r ,ities) -e did as we do wit- 2lo,6s o2 s-ee1 and
ot-er tame animals/ "or we do not a11oint o:en to be t-e lords o2
o:en* or .oats o2 .oats) b0t we o0rsel4es are a s01erior ra,e* and
r0le o4er t-em/ In li6e manner &od* in -is lo4e o2 man6ind* 1la,ed
o4er 0s t-e demons* w-o are a s01erior ra,e* and t-ey wit- .reat
,ase and 1leas0re to t-emsel4es* and no less to 0s* ta6in. ,are 0s and
.i4in. 0s 1ea,e and re4eren,e and order and j0sti,e ne4er 2ailin.*
made t-e tribes o2 men -a11y and 0nited/ And t-is tradition* w-i,-
is tr0e* de,lares t-at ,ities o2 w-i,- some mortal man and not &od
is t-e r0ler* -a4e no es,a1e 2rom e4ils and toils/ Still we m0st do
all t-at we ,an to imitate t-e li2e w-i,- is said to -a4e e:isted in
t-e days o2 Cronos* and* as 2ar as t-e 1rin,i1le o2 immortality dwells
in 0s* to t-at we m0st -ear6en* bot- in 1ri4ate and 10bli, li2e* and
re.0late o0r ,ities and -o0ses a,,ordin. to law* meanin. by t-e 4ery
term Alaw*A t-e distrib0tion o2 mind/ B0t i2 eit-er a sin.le 1erson or
an oli.ar,-y or a demo,ra,y -as a so0l ea.er a2ter 1leas0res and
desires9wantin. to be 2illed wit- t-em* yet retainin. none o2 t-em*
and 1er1et0ally a22li,ted wit- an endless and insatiable disorder) and
t-is e4il s1irit* -a4in. 2irst tram1led t-e laws 0nder 2oot* be,omes
t-e master eit-er o2 a state or o2 an indi4id0al9t-en* as I was
sayin.* sal4ation is -o1eless/ And now* Cleinias* we -a4e to
,onsider w-et-er yo0 will or will not a,,e1t t-is tale o2 mine/
Cle/ Certainly we will/
At-/ 7o0 are aware9are yo0 not39t-at t-ere are o2 said to be as many
2orms o2 laws as t-ere are o2 .o4ernments* and o2 t-e latter we -a4e
already mentioned all t-ose w-i,- are ,ommonly re,o.ni<ed/ !ow yo0
m0st re.ard t-is as a matter o2 2irst9rate im1ortan,e/ "or w-at is
to be t-e standard o2 j0st and 0nj0st* is on,e more t-e 1oint at
iss0e/ +en say t-at t-e law o0.-t not to re.ard eit-er military
4irt0e* or 4irt0e in .eneral* b0t only t-e interests and 1ower and
1reser4ation o2 t-e establis-ed 2orm o2 .o4ernment) t-is is t-o0.-t by
t-em to be t-e best way o2 e:1ressin. t-e nat0ral de2inition o2
j0sti,e/
Cle/ $ow3
At-/ J0sti,e is said by t-em to be t-e interest o2 t-e stron.er/
Cle/ S1ea6 1lainer/
At-/ I will(9AS0rely*A t-ey say* At-e .o4ernin. 1ower ma6es w-ate4er
laws -a4e a0t-ority in any state3A
Cle/ #r0e/
At-/ AWell*A t-ey wo0ld add* Aand do yo0 s011ose t-at tyranny or
demo,ra,y* or any ot-er ,on;0erin. 1ower* does not ma6e t-e
,ontin0an,e o2 t-e 1ower w-i,- is 1ossessed by t-em t-e 2irst or
1rin,i1al obje,t o2 t-eir laws3A
Cle/ $ow ,an t-ey -a4e any ot-er3
At-/ AAnd w-oe4er trans.resses t-ese laws is 10nis-ed as an
e4il9doer by t-e le.islator* w-o ,alls t-e laws j0st3A
Cle/ !at0rally/
At-/ A#-is* t-en* is always t-e mode and 2as-ion in w-i,- j0sti,e
e:ists/A
Cle/ Certainly* i2 t-ey are ,orre,t in t-eir 4iew/
At-/ W-y* yes* t-is is one o2 t-ose 2alse 1rin,i1les o2 .o4ernment
to w-i,- we were re2errin./
Cle/ W-i,- do yo0 mean3
At-/ #-ose w-i,- we were e:aminin. w-en we s1o6e o2 w-o o0.-t to
.o4ern w-om/ %id we not arri4e at t-e ,on,l0sion t-at 1arents o0.-t to
.o4ern t-eir ,-ildren* and t-e elder t-e yo0n.er* and t-e noble t-e
i.noble3 And t-ere were many ot-er 1rin,i1les* i2 yo0 remember* and
t-ey were not always ,onsistent/ One 1rin,i1le was t-is 4ery 1rin,i1le
o2 mi.-t* and we said t-at Pindar ,onsidered 4iolen,e nat0ral and
j0sti2ied it/
Cle/ 7es) I remember/
At-/ Consider* t-en* to w-om o0r state is to be entr0sted/ "or t-ere
is a t-in. w-i,- -as o,,0rred times wit-o0t n0mber in states9
Cle/ W-at t-in.3
At-/ #-at w-en t-ere -as been a ,ontest 2or 1ower* t-ose w-o .ain
t-e 011er -and so entirely mono1oli<e t-e .o4ernment* as to re20se all
s-are to t-e de2eated 1arty and t-eir des,endants9t-ey li4e wat,-in.
one anot-er* t-e r0lin. ,lass bein. in 1er1et0al 2ear t-at some one
w-o -as a re,olle,tion o2 2ormer wron.s will ,ome into 1ower and
rise 01 a.ainst t-em/ !ow* a,,ordin. to o0r 4iew* s0,- .o4ernments are
not 1olities at all* nor are laws ri.-t w-i,- are 1assed 2or t-e
.ood o2 1arti,0lar ,lasses and not 2or t-e .ood o2 t-e w-ole state/
States w-i,- -a4e s0,- laws are not 1olities b0t 1arties* and t-eir
notions o2 j0sti,e are sim1ly 0nmeanin./ I say t-is* be,a0se I am
.oin. to assert t-at we m0st not entr0st t-e .o4ernment in yo0r
state to any one be,a0se -e is ri,-* or be,a0se -e 1ossesses any ot-er
ad4anta.e* s0,- as stren.t-* or stat0re* or a.ain birt-( b0t -e w-o is
most obedient to t-e laws o2 t-e state* -e s-all win t-e 1alm) and
to -im w-o is 4i,torio0s in t-e 2irst de.ree s-all be .i4en t-e
-i.-est o22i,e and ,-ie2 ministry o2 t-e .ods) and t-e se,ond to -im
w-o bears t-e se,ond 1alm) and on a similar 1rin,i1le s-all all t-e
ot-er be assi.ned to t-ose w-o ,ome ne:t in order/ And w-en I ,all t-e
r0lers ser4ants or ministers o2 t-e law* I .i4e t-em t-is name not 2or
t-e sa6e o2 no4elty* b0t be,a0se I ,ertainly belie4e t-at 01on s0,-
ser4i,e or ministry de1ends t-e well9 or ill9bein. o2 t-e state/ "or
t-at state in w-i,- t-e law is s0bje,t and -as no a0t-ority* I
1er,ei4e to be on t-e -i.-way to r0in) b0t I see t-at t-e state in
w-i,- t-e law is abo4e t-e r0lers* and t-e r0lers are t-e in2eriors o2
t-e law* -as sal4ation* and e4ery blessin. w-i,- t-e &ods ,an ,on2er/
Cle/ #r0ly* Stran.er* yo0 see wit- t-e 6een 4ision o2 a.e/
At-/ W-y* yes) e4ery man w-en -e is yo0n. -as t-at sort o2 4ision
d0llest* and w-en -e is old 6eenest/
Cle/ 8ery tr0e/
At-/ And now* w-at is to be t-e ne:t ste13 +ay we not s011ose t-e
,olonists to -a4e arri4ed* and 1ro,eed to ma6e o0r s1ee,- to t-em3
Cle/ Certainly/
At-/ A"riends*A we say to t-em*9A&od* as t-e old tradition de,lares*
-oldin. in -is -and t-e be.innin.* middle* and end o2 all t-at is*
tra4els a,,ordin. to -is nat0re in a strai.-t line towards t-e
a,,om1lis-ment o2 -is end/ J0sti,e always a,,om1anies -im* and is
t-e 10nis-er o2 t-ose w-o 2all s-ort o2 t-e di4ine law/ #o j0sti,e* -e
w-o wo0ld be -a11y -olds 2ast* and 2ollows in -er ,om1any wit- all
-0mility and order) b0t -e w-o is li2ted 01 wit- 1ride* or elated by
wealt- or ran6* or bea0ty* w-o is yo0n. and 2oolis-* and -as a so0l
-ot wit- insolen,e* and t-in6s t-at -e -as no need o2 any .0ide or
r0ler* b0t is able -imsel2 to be t-e .0ide o2 ot-ers* -e* I say* is
le2t deserted o2 &od) and bein. t-0s deserted* -e ta6es to -im
ot-ers w-o are li6e -imsel2* and dan,es abo0t* t-rowin. all t-in.s
into ,on20sion* and many t-in6 t-at -e is a .reat man* b0t in a
s-ort time -e 1ays a 1enalty w-i,- j0sti,e ,annot b0t a11ro4e* and
is 0tterly destroyed* and -is 2amily and ,ity wit- -im/ W-ere2ore*
seein. t-at -0man t-in.s are t-0s ordered* w-at s-o0ld a wise man do
or t-in6* or not do or t-in63
Cle/ E4ery man o0.-t to ma6e 01 -is mind t-at -e will be one o2
t-e 2ollowers o2 &od) t-ere ,an be no do0bt o2 t-at/
At-/ #-en w-at li2e is a.reeable to &od* and be,omin. in -is
2ollowers3 One only* e:1ressed on,e 2or all in t-e old sayin. t-at
Ali6e a.rees wit- li6e* wit- meas0re meas0re*A b0t t-in.s w-i,- -a4e
no meas0re a.ree neit-er wit- t-emsel4es nor wit- t-e t-in.s w-i,-
-a4e/ !ow &od o0.-t to be to 0s t-e meas0re o2 all t-in.s* and not
man* as men ,ommonly say >Prota.oras?( t-e words are 2ar more tr0e
o2 -im/ And -e w-o wo0ld be dear to &od m0st* as 2ar as is 1ossible*
be li6e -im and s0,- as -e is/ W-ere2ore t-e tem1erate man is t-e
2riend o2 &od* 2or -e is li6e -im) and t-e intem1erate man is 0nli6e
-im* and di22erent 2rom -im* and 0nj0st/ And t-e same a11lies to ot-er
t-in.s) and t-is is t-e ,on,l0sion* w-i,- is also t-e noblest and
tr0est o2 all sayin.s9t-at 2or t-e .ood man to o22er sa,ri2i,e to
t-e &ods* and -old ,on4erse wit- t-em by means o2 1rayers and
o22erin.s and e4ery 6ind o2 ser4i,e* is t-e noblest and best o2 all
t-in.s* and also t-e most ,ond0,i4e to a -a11y li2e* and 4ery 2it
and meet/ B0t wit- t-e bad man* t-e o11osite o2 t-is is tr0e( 2or
t-e bad man -as an im10re so0l* w-ereas t-e .ood is 10re) and 2rom one
w-o is 1oll0ted* neit-er .ood man nor &od ,an wit-o0t im1ro1riety
re,ei4e .i2ts/ W-ere2ore t-e 0n-oly do only waste t-eir m0,- ser4i,e
01on t-e &ods* b0t w-en o22ered by any -oly man* s0,- ser4i,e is
most a,,e1table to t-em/ #-is is t-e mar6 at w-i,- we o0.-t to aim/
B0t w-at wea1ons s-all we 0se* and -ow s-all we dire,t t-em3 In t-e
2irst 1la,e* we a22irm t-at ne:t a2ter t-e Olym1ian &ods and t-e
&ods o2 t-e State* -ono0r s-o0ld be .i4en to t-e &ods below) t-ey
s-o0ld re,ei4e e4eryt-in. in e4en and o2 t-e se,ond ,-oi,e* and ill
omen* w-ile t-e odd n0mbers* and t-e 2irst ,-oi,e* and t-e t-in.s o2
l0,6y omen* are .i4en to t-e &ods abo4e* by -im w-o wo0ld ri.-tly
-it t-e mar6 o2 1iety/ !e:t to t-ese &ods* a wise man will do
ser4i,e to t-e demons or s1irits* and t-en to t-e -eroes* and a2ter
t-em will 2ollow t-e 1ri4ate and an,estral &ods* w-o are wors-i11ed as
t-e law 1res,ribes in t-e 1la,es w-i,- are sa,red to t-em/ !e:t
,omes t-e -ono0r o2 li4in. 1arents* to w-om* as is meet* we -a4e to
1ay t-e 2irst and .reatest and oldest o2 all debts* ,onsiderin. t-at
all w-i,- a man -as belon.s to t-ose w-o .a4e -im birt- and bro0.-t
-im 01* and t-at -e m0st do all t-at -e ,an to minister to t-em*
2irst* in -is 1ro1erty* se,ondly* in -is 1erson* and t-irdly* in -is
so0l* in ret0rn 2or t-e endless ,are and tra4ail w-i,- t-ey bestowed
01on -im o2 old* in t-e days o2 -is in2an,y* and w-i,- -e is now to
1ay ba,6 to t-em w-en t-ey are old and in t-e e:tremity o2 t-eir need/
And all -is li2e lon. -e o0.-t ne4er to 0tter* or to -a4e 0ttered*
an 0nbe,omin. word to t-em) 2or o2 li.-t and 2leetin. words t-e
1enalty is most se4ere) !emesis* t-e messen.er o2 j0sti,e* is
a11ointed to wat,- o4er all s0,- matters/ W-en t-ey are an.ry and want
to satis2y t-eir 2eelin.s in word or deed* -e s-o0ld .i4e way to t-em)
2or a 2at-er w-o t-in6s t-at -e -as been wron.ed by -is son may be
reasonably e:1e,ted to be 4ery an.ry/ At t-eir deat-* t-e most
moderate 20neral is best* neit-er e:,eedin. t-e ,0stomary e:1ense* nor
yet 2allin. s-ort o2 t-e -ono0r w-i,- -as been 0s0ally s-own by t-e
2ormer .eneration to t-eir 1arents/ And let a man not 2or.et to 1ay
t-e yearly trib0te o2 res1e,t to t-e dead* -ono0rin. t-em ,-ie2ly by
omittin. not-in. t-at ,ond0,es to a 1er1et0al remembran,e o2 t-em* and
.i4in. a reasonable 1ortion o2 -is 2ort0ne to t-e dead/ %oin. t-is*
and li4in. a2ter t-is manner* we s-all re,ei4e o0r reward 2rom t-e
&ods and t-ose w-o are abo4e 0s Bi/e/* t-e demonsC) and we s-all s1end
o0r days 2or t-e most 1art in .ood -o1e/ And -ow a man o0.-t to
order w-at relates to -is des,endants and -is 6indred and 2riends
and 2ellow9,iti<ens* and t-e rites o2 -os1itality ta0.-t by $ea4en*
and t-e inter,o0rse w-i,- arises o0t o2 all t-ese d0ties* wit- a
4iew to t-e embellis-ment and orderly re.0lation o2 -is own li2e9t-ese
t-in.s* I say* t-e laws* as we 1ro,eed wit- t-em* will a,,om1lis-*
1artly 1ers0adin.* and 1artly w-en nat0res do not yield to t-e
1ers0asion o2 ,0stom* ,-astisin. t-em by mi.-t and ri.-t* and will
t-0s render o0r state* i2 t-e &ods ,o9o1erate wit- 0s* 1ros1ero0s
and -a11y/ B0t o2 w-at -as to be said* and m0st be said by t-e
le.islator w-o is o2 my way o2 t-in6in.* and yet* i2 said in t-e
2orm o2 law* wo0ld be o0t o2 1la,e9o2 t-is I t-in6 t-at -e may .i4e
a sam1le 2or t-e instr0,tion o2 -imsel2 and o2 t-ose 2or w-om -e is
le.islatin.) and t-en w-en* as 2ar as -e is able* -e -as .one
t-ro0.- all t-e 1reliminaries* -e may 1ro,eed to t-e wor6 o2
le.islation/ !ow* w-at will be t-e 2orm o2 s0,- 1re2a,es3 #-ere may be
a di22i,0lty in in,l0din. or des,ribin. t-em all 0nder a sin.le
2orm* b0t I t-in6 t-at we may .et some notion o2 t-em i2 we ,an
.0arantee one t-in./
Cle/ W-at is t-at3
At-/ I s-o0ld wis- t-e ,iti<ens to be as readily 1ers0aded to 4irt0e
as 1ossible) t-is will s0rely be t-e aim o2 t-e le.islator in all
-is laws/
Cle/ Certainly/
At-/ #-e 1ro1osal a11ears to me to be o2 some 4al0e) and I t-in6
t-at a 1erson will listen wit- more .entleness and .ood9will to t-e
1re,e1ts addressed to -im by t-e le.islator* w-en -is so0l is not
alto.et-er 0n1re1ared to re,ei4e t-em/ E4en a little done in t-e way
o2 ,on,iliation .ains -is ear* and is always wort- -a4in./ "or t-ere
is no .reat in,lination or readiness on t-e 1art o2 man6ind to be made
as .ood* or as ;0i,6ly .ood* as 1ossible/ #-e ,ase o2 t-e many
1ro4es t-e wisdom o2 $esiod* w-o says t-at t-e road to wi,6edness is
smoot- and ,an be tra4elled wit-o0t 1ers1irin.* be,a0se it is so
4ery s-ort(
B0t be2ore 4irt0e t-e immortal &ods -a4e 1la,ed t-e sweat o2 labo0r*
and lon. and stee1 is t-e way t-it-er* and r0..ed at 2irst) b0t w-en
yo0 -a4e rea,-ed t-e to1* alt-o0.- di22i,0lt be2ore* it is t-en easy/
Cle/ 7es) and -e ,ertainly s1ea6s well/
At-/ 8ery tr0e( and now let me tell yo0 t-e e22e,t w-i,- t-e
1re,edin. dis,o0rse -as -ad 01on me/
Cle/ Pro,eed/
At-/ S011ose t-at we -a4e a little ,on4ersation wit- t-e le.islator*
and say to -im9AO* le.islator* s1ea6) i2 yo0 6now w-at we o0.-t to say
and do* yo0 ,an s0rely tell/A
Cle/ O2 ,o0rse -e ,an/
At-/ A%id we not -ear yo0 j0st now sayin.* t-at t-e le.islator o0.-t
not to allow t-e 1oets to do w-at t-ey li6ed3 "or t-at t-ey wo0ld
not 6now in w-i,- o2 t-eir words t-ey went a.ainst t-e laws* to t-e
-0rt o2 t-e state/A
Cle/ #-at is tr0e/
At-/ +ay we not 2airly ma6e answer to -im on be-al2 o2 t-e 1oets3
Cle/ W-at answer s-all we ma6e to -im3
At-/ #-at t-e 1oet* a,,ordin. to t-e tradition w-i,- -as e4er
1re4ailed amon. 0s* and is a,,e1ted o2 all men* w-en -e sits down on
t-e tri1od o2 t-e m0se* is not in -is ri.-t mind) li6e a 2o0ntain*
-e allows to 2low o0t 2reely w-ate4er ,omes in* and -is art bein.
imitati4e* -e is o2ten ,om1elled to re1resent men o2 o11osite
dis1ositions* and t-0s to ,ontradi,t -imsel2) neit-er ,an -e tell
w-et-er t-ere is more tr0t- in one t-in. t-at -e -as said t-an in
anot-er/ t-is is not t-e ,ase in a law) t-e le.islator m0st .i4e not
two r0les abo0t t-e same t-in.* b0t one only/ #a6e an e:am1le 2rom
w-at yo0 -a4e j0st been sayin./ O2 t-ree 6inds o2 20nerals* t-ere is
one w-i,- is too e:tra4a.ant* anot-er is too ni..ardly* t-e t-ird is a
mean) and yo0 ,-oose and a11ro4e and order t-e last wit-o0t
;0ali2i,ation/ B0t i2 I -ad an e:tremely ri,- wi2e* and s-e bade me
b0ry -er and des,ribe -er b0rial in a 1oem* I s-o0ld 1raise t-e
e:tra4a.ant sort) and a 1oor miserly man* w-o -ad not m0,- money to
s1end* wo0ld a11ro4e o2 t-e ni..ardly) and t-e man o2 moderate
means* w-o was -imsel2 moderate* wo0ld 1raise a moderate 20neral/
!ow yo0 in t-e ,a1a,ity o2 le.islator m0st not barely say Aa
moderate 20neral*A b0t yo0 m0st de2ine w-at moderation is* and -ow
m0,-) 0nless yo0 are de2inite* yo0 m0st not s011ose t-at yo0 are
s1ea6in. a lan.0a.e t-at ,an be,ome law/
Cle/ Certainly not/
At-/ And is o0r le.islator to -a4e no 1re2a,e to -is laws* b0t to
say at on,e %o t-is* a4oid t-at9and t-en -oldin. t-e 1enalty in
terrorem to .o on to anot-er law) o22erin. ne4er a word o2 ad4i,e or
e:-ortation to t-ose 2or w-om -e is le.islatin.* a2ter t-e manner o2
some do,tors3 "or o2 do,tors* as I may remind yo0* some -a4e a
.entler* ot-ers a r0der met-od o2 ,0re) and as ,-ildren as6 t-e do,tor
to be .entle wit- t-em* so we will as6 t-e le.islator to ,0re o0r
disorders wit- t-e .entlest remedies/ W-at I mean to say is* t-at
besides do,tors t-ere are do,tors= ser4ants* w-o are also styled
do,tors/
Cle/ 8ery tr0e/
At-/ And w-et-er t-ey are sla4es or 2reemen ma6es no di22eren,e)
t-ey a,;0ire t-eir 6nowled.e o2 medi,ine by obeyin. and obser4in.
t-eir masters) em1iri,ally and not a,,ordin. to t-e nat0ral way o2
learnin.* as t-e manner o2 2reemen is* w-o -a4e learned s,ienti2i,ally
t-emsel4es t-e art w-i,- t-ey im1art s,ienti2i,ally to t-eir 101ils/
7o0 are aware t-at t-ere are t-ese two ,lasses o2 do,tors3
Cle/ #o be s0re/
At-/ And did yo0 e4er obser4e t-at t-ere are two ,lasses o2 1atients
in states* sla4es and 2reemen) and t-e sla4e do,tors r0n abo0t and
,0re t-e sla4es* or wait 2or t-em in t-e dis1ensaries91ra,titioners o2
t-is sort ne4er tal6 to t-eir 1atients indi4id0ally* or let t-em
tal6 abo0t t-eir own indi4id0al ,om1laints3 #-e sla4e do,tor
1res,ribes w-at mere e:1erien,e s0..ests* as i2 -e -ad e:a,t
6nowled.e) and w-en -e -as .i4en -is orders* li6e a tyrant* -e
r0s-es o22 wit- e;0al ass0ran,e to some ot-er ser4ant w-o is ill)
and so -e relie4es t-e master o2 t-e -o0se o2 t-e ,are o2 -is
in4alid sla4es/ B0t t-e ot-er do,tor* w-o is a 2reeman* attends and
1ra,tises 01on 2reemen) and -e ,arries -is en;0iries 2ar ba,6* and
.oes into t-e nat0re o2 t-e disorder) -e enters into dis,o0rse wit-
t-e 1atient and wit- -is 2riends* and is at on,e .ettin. in2ormation
2rom t-e si,6 man* and also instr0,tin. -im as 2ar as -e is able*
and -e will not 1res,ribe 2or -im 0ntil -e -as 2irst ,on4in,ed -im) at
last* w-en -e -as bro0.-t t-e 1atient more and more 0nder -is
1ers0asi4e in2l0en,es and set -im on t-e road to -ealt-* -e attem1ts
to e22e,t a ,0re/ !ow w-i,- is t-e better way o2 1ro,eedin. in a
1-ysi,ian and in a trainer3 Is -e t-e better w-o a,,om1lis-es -is ends
in a do0ble way* or -e w-o wor6s in one way* and t-at t-e r0der and
in2erior3
Cle/ I s-o0ld say* Stran.er* t-at t-e do0ble way is 2ar better/
At-/ S-o0ld yo0 li6e to see an e:am1le o2 t-e do0ble and sin.le
met-od in le.islation3
Cle/ Certainly I s-o0ld/
At-/ W-at will be o0r 2irst law3 Will not t-e t-e order o2 nat0re*
be.in by ma6in. re.0lations 2or states abo0t birt-s3
Cle/ $e will/
At-/ In all states t-e birt- o2 ,-ildren .oes ba,6 to t-e ,onne,tion
o2 marria.e3
Cle/ 8ery tr0e/
At-/ And* a,,ordin. to t-e tr0e order* t-e laws relatin. to marria.e
s-o0ld be t-ose w-i,- are 2irst determined in e4ery state3
Cle/ @0ite so/
At-/ #-en let me 2irst .i4e t-e law o2 marria.e in a sim1le 2orm) it
may r0n as 2ollows(9A man s-all marry between t-e a.es o2 t-irty and
t-irty92i4e* or* i2 -e does not* -e s-all 1ay s0,- and s0,- a 2ine* or
s-all s022er t-e loss o2 s0,- and s0,- 1ri4ile.es/ #-is wo0ld be t-e
sim1le law abo0t marria.e/ #-e do0ble law wo0ld r0n t-0s(9A man
s-all marry between t-e a.es o2 t-irty and t-irty92i4e* ,onsiderin.
t-at in a manner t-e -0man ra,e nat0rally 1arta6es o2 immortality*
w-i,- e4ery man is by nat0re in,lined to desire to t-e 0tmost) 2or t-e
desire o2 e4ery man t-at -e may be,ome 2amo0s* and not lie in t-e
.ra4e wit-o0t a name* is only t-e lo4e o2 ,ontin0an,e/ !ow man6ind are
,oe4al wit- all time* and are e4er 2ollowin.* and will e4er 2ollow*
t-e ,o0rse o2 time) and so t-ey are immortal* be,a0se t-ey lea4e
,-ildren=s ,-ildren be-ind t-em* and 1arta6e o2 immortality in t-e
0nity o2 .eneration/ And 2or a man 4ol0ntarily to de1ri4e -imsel2 o2
t-is .i2t* as -e deliberately does w-o will not -a4e a wi2e or
,-ildren* is im1iety/ $e w-o obeys t-e law s-all be 2ree* and s-all
1ay no 2ine) b0t -e w-o is disobedient* and does not marry* w-en -e
-as arri4ed at t-e a.e o2 t-irty92i4e* s-all 1ay a yearly 2ine o2 a
,ertain amo0nt* in order t-at -e may not ima.ine -is ,eliba,y to brin.
ease and 1ro2it to -im) and -e s-all not s-are in t-e -ono0rs w-i,-
t-e yo0n. men in t-e state .i4e to t-e a.ed/ Com1arin. now t-e two
2orms o2 t-e law* yo0 will be able to arri4e at a j0d.ment abo0t any
ot-er laws9w-et-er t-ey s-o0ld be do0ble in len.t- e4en w-en s-ortest*
be,a0se t-ey -a4e to 1ers0ade as well as t-reaten* or w-et-er t-ey
s-all only t-reaten and be o2 -al2 t-e len.t-/
+e./ #-e s-orter 2orm* Stran.er* wo0ld be more in a,,ordan,e wit-
La,edaemonian ,0stom) alt-o0.-* 2or my own 1art* i2 any one were to
as6 me w-i,- I mysel2 1re2er in t-e state* I s-o0ld ,ertainly
determine in 2a4o0r o2 t-e lon.er) and I wo0ld -a4e e4ery law made
a2ter t-e same 1attern* i2 I -ad to ,-oose/ B0t I t-in6 t-at
Cleinias is t-e 1erson to be ,ons0lted* 2or -is is t-e state w-i,-
is .oin. to 0se t-ese laws/
Cle/ #-an6 yo0* +e.ill0s/
At-/ W-et-er* in t-e abstra,t* words are to be many or 2ew* is a
4ery 2oolis- ;0estion) t-e best 2orm* and not t-e s-ortest* is to be
a11ro4ed) nor is len.t- at all to be re.arded/ O2 t-e two 2orms o2 law
w-i,- -a4e been re,ited* t-e one is not only twi,e as .ood in
1ra,ti,al 0se20lness as t-e ot-er* b0t t-e ,ase is li6e t-at o2 t-e
two 6inds o2 do,tors* w-i,- I was j0st now mentionin./ And yet
le.islators ne4er a11ear to -a4e ,onsidered t-at t-ey -a4e two
instr0ments w-i,- t-ey mi.-t 0se in le.islation91ers0asion and
2or,e) 2or in dealin. wit- t-e r0de and 0ned0,ated m0ltit0de* t-ey 0se
t-e one only as 2ar as t-ey ,an) t-ey do not min.le 1ers0asion wit-
,oer,ion* b0t em1loy 2or,e 10re and sim1le/ +oreo4er* t-ere is a t-ird
1oint* sweet 2riends* w-i,- o0.-t to be* and ne4er is* re.arded in o0r
e:istin. laws/
Cle/ W-at is it3
At-/ A 1oint arisin. o0t o2 o0r 1re4io0s dis,0ssion* w-i,- ,omes
into my mind in some mysterio0s way/ All t-is time* 2rom early dawn
0ntil noon* -a4e we been tal6in. abo0t laws in t-is ,-armin.
retreat( now we are .oin. to 1rom0l.ate o0r laws* and w-at -as
1re,eded was only t-e 1rel0de o2 t-em/ W-y do I mention t-is3 "or t-is
reason(9Be,a0se all dis,o0rses and 4o,al e:er,ises -a4e 1rel0des and
o4ert0res* w-i,- are a sort o2 artisti, be.innin.s intended to -el1
t-e strain w-i,- is to be 1er2ormed) lyri, meas0res and m0si, o2 e4ery
ot-er 6ind -a4e 1rel0des 2ramed wit- wonder20l ,are/ B0t o2 t-e
tr0er and -i.-er strain o2 law and 1oliti,s* no one -as e4er yet
0ttered any 1rel0de* or ,om1osed or 10blis-ed any* as t-o0.- t-ere was
no s0,- t-in. in nat0re/ W-ereas o0r 1resent dis,0ssion seems to me to
im1ly t-at t-ere is)9t-ese do0ble laws* o2 w-i,- we were s1ea6in.* are
not e:a,tly do0ble* b0t t-ey are in two 1arts* t-e law and t-e 1rel0de
o2 t-e law/ #-e arbitrary ,ommand* w-i,- was ,om1ared to t-e
,ommands o2 do,tors* w-om we des,ribed as o2 t-e meaner sort* was
t-e law 10re and sim1le) and t-at w-i,- 1re,eded* and was des,ribed by
o0r 2riend -ere as bein. -ortatory only* was* alt-o0.- in 2a,t* an
e:-ortation* li6ewise analo.o0s to t-e 1reamble o2 a dis,o0rse/ "or
I ima.ine t-at all t-is lan.0a.e o2 ,on,iliation* w-i,- t-e le.islator
-as been 0tterin. in t-e 1re2a,e o2 t-e law* was intended to ,reate
.oodwill in t-e 1erson w-om -e addressed* in order t-at* by reason
o2 t-is .ood9will* -e mi.-t more intelli.ently re,ei4e -is ,ommand*
t-at is to say* t-e law/ And t-ere2ore* in my way o2 s1ea6in.* t-is is
more ri.-tly des,ribed as t-e 1reamble t-an as t-e matter o2 t-e
law/ And I m0st 20rt-er 1ro,eed to obser4e* t-at to all -is laws*
and to ea,- se1arately* t-e le.islator s-o0ld 1re2i: a 1reamble) -e
s-o0ld remember -ow .reat will be t-e di22eren,e between t-em*
a,,ordin. as t-ey -a4e* or -a4e not* s0,- 1reambles* as in t-e ,ase
already .i4en/
Cle/ #-e law.i4er* i2 -e as6s my o1inion* will ,ertainly le.islate
in t-e 2orm w-i,- yo0 ad4ise/
At-/ I t-in6 t-at yo0 are ri.-t* Cleinias* in a22irmin. t-at all
laws -a4e 1reambles* and t-at t-ro0.-o0t t-e w-ole o2 t-is wor6 o2
le.islation e4ery sin.le law s-o0ld -a4e a s0itable 1reamble at t-e
be.innin.) 2or t-at w-i,- is to 2ollow is most im1ortant* and it ma6es
all t-e di22eren,e w-et-er we ,learly remember t-e 1reambles or not/
7et we s-o0ld be wron. in re;0irin. t-at all laws* small and .reat
ali6e* s-o0ld -a4e 1reambles o2 t-e same 6ind* any more t-an all son.s
or s1ee,-es) alt-o0.- t-ey may be nat0ral to all* t-ey are not
always ne,essary* and w-et-er t-ey are to be em1loyed or not -as in
ea,- ,ase to be le2t to t-e j0d.ment o2 t-e s1ea6er or t-e m0si,ian*
or* in t-e 1resent instan,e* o2 t-e law.i4er/
Cle/ #-at I t-in6 is most tr0e/ And now* Stran.er* wit-o0t delay let
0s ret0rn to t-e ar.0ment* and* as 1eo1le say in 1lay* ma6e a se,ond
and better be.innin.* i2 yo0 1lease* wit- t-e 1rin,i1les w-i,- we -a4e
been layin. down* w-i,- we ne4er t-o0.-t o2 re.ardin. as a 1reamble
be2ore* b0t o2 w-i,- we may now ma6e a 1reamble* and not merely
,onsider t-em to be ,-an,e to1i,s o2 dis,o0rse/ Let 0s a,6nowled.e*
t-en* t-at we -a4e a 1reamble/ Abo0t t-e -ono0r o2 t-e &ods and t-e
res1e,t o2 1arents* eno0.- -as been already said) and we may 1ro,eed
to t-e to1i,s w-i,- 2ollow ne:t in order* 0ntil t-e 1reamble is deemed
by yo0 to be ,om1lete) and a2ter t-at yo0 s-all .o t-ro0.- t-e laws
t-emsel4es/
At-/ I 0nderstand yo0 to mean t-at we -a4e made a s022i,ient
1reamble abo0t &ods and demi9.ods* and abo0t 1arents li4in. or dead)
and now yo0 wo0ld -a4e 0s brin. t-e rest o2 t-e s0bje,t into t-e li.-t
o2 day3
Cle/ E:a,tly/
At-/ A2ter t-is* as is meet and 2or t-e interest o2 0s all* I t-e
s1ea6er* and yo0 t-e listeners* will try to estimate all t-at
relates to t-e so0ls and bodies and 1ro1erties o2 t-e ,iti<ens* as
re.ards bot- t-eir o,,01ations and arri4e* as 2ar as in 0s lies* at
t-e nat0re o2 ed0,ation/ #-ese t-en are t-e to1i,s w-i,- 2ollow ne:t
in order/
Cle/ 8ery .ood/
BOOK 8
At-enian Stran.er/ Listen* all ye w-o -a4e j0st now -eard t-e laws
abo0t &ods* and abo0t o0r dear 2ore2at-ers(9O2 all t-e t-in.s w-i,-
a man -as* ne:t to t-e &ods* -is so0l is t-e most di4ine and most
tr0ly -is own/ !ow in e4ery man t-ere are two 1arts( t-e better and
s01erior* w-i,- r0les* and t-e worse and in2erior* w-i,- ser4es) and
t-e r0lin. 1art o2 -im is always to be 1re2erred to t-e s0bje,t/
W-ere2ore I am ri.-t in biddin. e4ery one ne:t to t-e &ods* w-o are
o0r masters* and t-ose w-o in order 2ollow t-em Bi/e/* t-e demonsC* to
-ono0r -is own so0l* w-i,- e4ery one seems to -ono0r* b0t no one
-ono0rs as -e o0.-t) 2or -ono0r is a di4ine .ood* and no e4il t-in. is
-ono0rable) and -e w-o t-in6s t-at -e ,an -ono0r t-e so0l by word or
.i2t* or any sort o2 ,om1lian,e* wit-o0t ma6in. -er in any way better*
seems to -ono0r -er* b0t -ono0rs -er not at all/ "or e:am1le* e4ery
man* 2rom -is 4ery boy-ood* 2an,ies t-at -e is able to 6now
e4eryt-in.* and t-in6s t-at -e -ono0rs -is so0l by 1raisin. -er* and
-e is 4ery ready to let -er do w-ate4er s-e may li6e/ B0t I mean to
say t-at in a,tin. t-0s -e inj0res -is so0l* and is 2ar 2rom -ono0rin.
-er) w-ereas* in o0r o1inion* -e o0.-t to -ono0r -er as se,ond only to
t-e &ods/ A.ain* w-en a man t-in6s t-at ot-ers are to be blamed* and
not -imsel2* 2or t-e errors w-i,- -e -as ,ommitted 2rom time to
time* and t-e many and .reat e4ils w-i,- be2ell -im in ,onse;0en,e*
and is always 2an,yin. -imsel2 to be e:em1t and inno,ent* -e is
0nder t-e idea t-at -e is -ono0rin. -is so0l) w-ereas t-e 4ery re4erse
is t-e 2a,t* 2or -e is really inj0rin. -er/ And w-en* disre.ardin. t-e
word and a11ro4al o2 t-e le.islator* -e ind0l.es in 1leas0re* t-en
a.ain -e is 2ar 2rom -ono0rin. -er) -e only dis-ono0rs -er* and
2ills -er 20ll o2 e4il and remorse) or w-en -e does not end0re to
t-e end t-e labo0rs and 2ears and sorrows and 1ains w-i,- t-e
le.islator a11ro4es* b0t .i4es way be2ore t-em* t-en* by yieldin.*
-e does not -ono0r t-e so0l* b0t by all s0,- ,ond0,t -e ma6es -er to
be dis-ono0rable) nor w-en -e t-in6s t-at li2e at any 1ri,e is a .ood*
does -e -ono0r -er* b0t yet on,e more -e dis-ono0rs -er) 2or t-e
so0l -a4in. a notion t-at t-e world below is all e4il* -e yields to
-er* and does not resist and tea,- or ,on4in,e -er t-at* 2or a0.-t s-e
6nows* t-e world o2 t-e &ods below* instead o2 bein. e4il* may be
t-e .reatest o2 all .oods/ A.ain* w-en any one 1re2ers bea0ty to
4irt0e* w-at is t-is b0t t-e real and 0tter dis-ono0r o2 t-e so0l3 "or
s0,- a 1re2eren,e im1lies t-at t-e body is more -ono0rable t-an t-e
so0l) and t-is is 2alse* 2or t-ere is not-in. o2 eart-ly birt- w-i,-
is more -ono0rable t-an t-e -ea4enly* and -e w-o t-in6s ot-erwise o2
t-e so0l -as no idea -ow .reatly -e 0nder4al0es t-is wonder20l
1ossession) nor* a.ain* w-en a 1erson is willin.* or not 0nwillin.* to
a,;0ire dis-onest .ains* does -e t-en -ono0r -is so0l wit- .i2ts92ar
ot-erwise) -e sells -er .lory and -ono0r 2or a small 1ie,e o2 .old)
b0t all t-e .old w-i,- is 0nder or 01on t-e eart- is not eno0.- to
.i4e in e:,-an.e 2or 4irt0e/ In a word* I may say t-at -e w-o does not
estimate t-e base and e4il* t-e .ood and noble* a,,ordin. to t-e
standard o2 t-e le.islator* and abstain in e4ery 1ossible way 2rom t-e
one and 1ra,tise t-e ot-er to t-e 0tmost o2 -is 1ower* does not 6now
t-at in all t-ese res1e,ts -e is most 2o0lly and dis.ra,e20lly ab0sin.
-is so0l* w-i,- is t-e di4inest 1art o2 man) 2or no one* as I may say*
e4er ,onsiders t-at w-i,- is de,lared to be t-e .reatest 1enalty o2
e4il9doin.99namely* to .row into t-e li6eness o2 bad men* and
.rowin. li6e t-em to 2ly 2rom t-e ,on4ersation o2 t-e .ood* and be ,0t
o22 2rom t-em* and ,lea4e to and 2ollow a2ter t-e ,om1any o2 t-e
bad/ And -e w-o is joined to t-em m0st do and s022er w-at s0,- men
by nat0re do and say to one anot-er9a s022erin. w-i,- is not j0sti,e
b0t retrib0tion) 2or j0sti,e and t-e j0st are noble* w-ereas
retrib0tion is t-e s022erin. w-i,- waits 01on inj0sti,e) and w-et-er a
man es,a1e or end0re t-is* -e is miserable9in t-e 2ormer ,ase* be,a0se
-e is not ,0red) w-ile in t-e latter* -e 1eris-es in order t-at t-e
rest o2 man6ind may be sa4ed/
S1ea6in. .enerally* o0r .lory is to 2ollow t-e better and im1ro4e
t-e in2erior* w-i,- is s0s,e1tible o2 im1ro4ement* as 2ar as t-is is
1ossible/ And o2 all -0man 1ossessions* t-e so0l is by nat0re most
in,lined to a4oid t-e e4il* and tra,6 o0t and 2ind t-e ,-ie2 .ood)
w-i,- w-en a man -as 2o0nd* -e s-o0ld ta6e 01 -is abode wit- it d0rin.
t-e remainder o2 -is li2e/ W-ere2ore t-e so0l also is se,ond Bor
ne:t to &odC in -ono0r) and t-ird* as e4ery one will 1er,ei4e* ,omes
t-e -ono0r o2 t-e body in nat0ral order/ $a4in. determined t-is* we
-a4e ne:t to ,onsider t-at t-ere is a nat0ral -ono0r o2 t-e body*
and t-at o2 -ono0rs some are tr0e and some are ,o0nter2eit/ #o
de,ide w-i,- are w-i,- is t-e b0siness o2 t-e le.islator) and -e* I
s0s1e,t* wo0ld intimate t-at t-ey are as 2ollows(9$ono0r is not to
be .i4en to t-e 2air body* or to t-e stron. or t-e swi2t or t-e
tall* or to t-e -ealt-y body >alt-o0.- many may t-in6 ot-erwise?*
any more t-an to t-eir o11osites) b0t t-e mean states o2 all t-ese
-abits are by 2ar t-e sa2est and most moderate) 2or t-e one e:treme
ma6es t-e so0l bra..art and insolent* and t-e ot-er* illiberal and
base) and money* and 1ro1erty* and distin,tion all .o to t-e same
t0ne/ #-e e:,ess o2 any o2 t-ese t-in.s is a1t to be a so0r,e o2
-atreds and di4isions amon. states and indi4id0als) and t-e de2e,t
o2 t-em is ,ommonly a ,a0se o2 sla4ery/ And* t-ere2ore* I wo0ld not
-a4e any one 2ond o2 -ea1in. 01 ri,-es 2or t-e sa6e o2 -is ,-ildren*
in order t-at -e may lea4e t-em as ri,- as 1ossible/ "or t-e
1ossession o2 .reat wealt- is o2 no 0se* eit-er to t-em or to t-e
state/ #-e ,ondition o2 yo0t- w-i,- is 2ree 2rom 2lattery* and at
t-e same time not in need o2 t-e ne,essaries o2 li2e* is t-e best
and most -armonio0s o2 all* bein. in a,,ord and a.reement wit- o0r
nat0re* and ma6in. li2e to be most entirely 2ree 2rom sorrow/ Let
1arents* t-en* be;0eat- to t-eir ,-ildren not a -ea1 o2 ri,-es* b0t
t-e s1irit o2 re4eren,e/ We* indeed* 2an,y t-at t-ey will in-erit
re4eren,e 2rom 0s* i2 we reb06e t-em w-en t-ey s-ow a want o2
re4eren,e/ B0t t-is ;0ality is not really im1arted to t-em by t-e
1resent style o2 admonition* w-i,- only tells t-em t-at t-e yo0n.
o0.-t always to be re4erential/ A sensible le.islator will rat-er
e:-ort t-e elders to re4eren,e t-e yo0n.er* and abo4e all to ta6e -eed
t-at no yo0n. man sees or -ears one o2 t-emsel4es doin. or sayin.
anyt-in. dis.ra,e20l) 2or w-ere old men -a4e no s-ame* t-ere yo0n. men
will most ,ertainly be de4oid o2 re4eren,e/ #-e best way o2 trainin.
t-e yo0n. is to train yo0rsel2 at t-e same time) not to admonis- t-em*
b0t to be always ,arryin. o0t yo0r own admonitions in 1ra,ti,e/ $e w-o
-ono0rs -is 6indred* and re4eres t-ose w-o s-are in t-e same &ods
and are o2 t-e same blood and 2amily* may 2airly e:1e,t t-at t-e
&ods w-o 1reside o4er .eneration will be 1ro1itio0s to -im* and will
;0i,6en -is seed/ And -e w-o deems t-e ser4i,es w-i,- -is 2riends
and a,;0aintan,es do 2or -im* .reater and more im1ortant t-an t-ey
t-emsel4es deem t-em* and -is own 2a4o0rs to t-em less t-an t-eirs
to -im* will -a4e t-eir .ood9will in t-e inter,o0rse o2 li2e/ And
s0rely in -is relations to t-e state and -is 2ellow ,iti<ens* -e is by
2ar t-e best* w-o rat-er t-an t-e Olym1i, or any ot-er 4i,tory o2
1ea,e or war* desires to win t-e 1alm o2 obedien,e to t-e laws o2
-is ,o0ntry* and w-o* o2 all man6ind* is t-e 1erson re10ted to -a4e
obeyed t-em best t-ro0.- li2e/ In -is relations to stran.ers* a man
s-o0ld ,onsider t-at a ,ontra,t is a most -oly t-in.* and t-at all
,on,erns and wron.s o2 stran.ers are more dire,tly de1endent on t-e
1rote,tion o2 &od* t-an wron.s done to ,iti<ens) 2or t-e stran.er*
-a4in. no 6indred and 2riends* is more to be 1itied by &ods and men/
W-ere2ore* also* -e w-o is most able to a4en.e -im is most <ealo0s
in -is ,a0se) and -e w-o is most able is t-e .eni0s and t-e .od o2 t-e
stran.er* w-o 2ollow in t-e train o2 5e0s* t-e .od o2 stran.ers/ And
2or t-is reason* -e w-o -as a s1ar6 o2 ,a0tion in -im* will do -is
best to 1ass t-ro0.- li2e wit-o0t sinnin. a.ainst t-e stran.er/ And o2
o22en,es ,ommitted* w-et-er a.ainst stran.ers or 2ellow9,o0ntrymen*
t-at a.ainst s011liants is t-e .reatest/ "or t-e .od w-o witnessed
to t-e a.reement made wit- t-e s011liant* be,omes in a s1e,ial
manner t-e .0ardian o2 t-e s022erer) and -e will ,ertainly not
s022er 0na4en.ed/
#-0s we -a4e 2airly des,ribed t-e manner in w-i,- a man is to a,t
abo0t -is 1arents* and -imsel2* and -is own a22airs) and in relation
to t-e state* and -is 2riends* and 6indred* bot- in w-at ,on,erns
-is own ,o0ntrymen* and in w-at ,on,erns t-e stran.er/ We will now
,onsider w-at manner o2 man -e m0st be w-o wo0ld best 1ass t-ro0.-
li2e in res1e,t o2 t-ose ot-er t-in.s w-i,- are not matters o2 law*
b0t o2 1raise and blame only) in w-i,- 1raise and blame ed0,ate a man*
and ma6e -im more tra,table and amenable to t-e laws w-i,- are abo0t
to be im1osed/
#r0t- is t-e be.innin. o2 e4ery .ood t-in.* bot- to &ods and men)
and -e w-o wo0ld be blessed and -a11y* s-o0ld be 2rom t-e 2irst a
1arta6er o2 t-e tr0t-* t-at -e may li4e a tr0e man as lon. as
1ossible* 2or t-en -e ,an be tr0sted) b0t -e is not to be tr0sted
w-o lo4es 4ol0ntary 2alse-ood* and -e w-o lo4es in4ol0ntary
2alse-ood is a 2ool/ !eit-er ,ondition is en4iable* 2or t-e
0ntr0stwort-y and i.norant -as no 2riend* and as time ad4an,es -e
be,omes 6nown* and lays 01 in store 2or -imsel2 isolation in ,rabbed
a.e w-en li2e is on t-e wane( so t-at* w-et-er -is ,-ildren or 2riends
are ali4e or not* -e is e;0ally solitary/9Wort-y o2 -ono0r is -e w-o
does no inj0sti,e* and o2 more t-an two2old -ono0r* i2 -e not only
does no inj0sti,e -imsel2* b0t -inders ot-ers 2rom doin. any) t-e
2irst may ,o0nt as one man* t-e se,ond is wort- many men* be,a0se -e
in2orms t-e r0lers o2 t-e inj0sti,e o2 ot-ers/ And yet more -i.-ly
to be esteemed is -e w-o ,o9o1erates wit- t-e r0lers in ,orre,tin. t-e
,iti<ens as 2ar as -e ,an9-e s-all be 1ro,laimed t-e .reat and 1er2e,t
,iti<en* and bear away t-e 1alm o2 4irt0e/ #-e same 1raise may be
.i4en abo0t tem1eran,e and wisdom* and all ot-er .oods w-i,- may be
im1arted to ot-ers* as well as a,;0ired by a man 2or -imsel2) -e w-o
im1arts t-em s-all be -ono0red as t-e man o2 men* and -e w-o is
willin.* yet is not able* may be allowed t-e se,ond 1la,e) b0t -e
w-o is jealo0s and will not* i2 -e ,an -el1* allow ot-ers to 1arta6e
in a 2riendly way o2 any .ood* is deser4in. o2 blame( t-e .ood*
-owe4er* w-i,- -e -as* is not to be 0nder4al0ed by 0s be,a0se it is
1ossessed by -im* b0t m0st be a,;0ired by 0s also to t-e 0tmost o2 o0r
1ower/ Let e4ery man* t-en* 2reely stri4e 2or t-e 1ri<e o2 4irt0e* and
let t-ere be no en4y/ "or t-e 0nen4io0s nat0re in,reases t-e .reatness
o2 states9-e -imsel2 ,ontends in t-e ra,e* blastin. t-e 2air 2ame o2
no man) b0t t-e en4io0s* w-o t-in6s t-at -e o0.-t to .et t-e better by
de2amin. ot-ers* is less ener.eti, -imsel2 in t-e 10rs0it o2 tr0e
4irt0e* and red0,es -is ri4als to des1air by -is 0nj0st slanders o2
t-em/ And so -e ma6es t-e w-ole ,ity to enter t-e arena 0ntrained in
t-e 1ra,ti,e o2 4irt0e* and diminis-es -er .lory as 2ar as in -im
lies/ !ow e4ery man s-o0ld be 4aliant* b0t -e s-o0ld also be .entle/
"rom t-e ,r0el* or -ardly ,0rable* or alto.et-er in,0rable a,ts o2
inj0sti,e done to -im by ot-ers* a man ,an only es,a1e by 2i.-tin. and
de2endin. -imsel2 and ,on;0erin.* and by ne4er ,easin. to 10nis- t-em)
and no man w-o is not o2 a noble s1irit is able to a,,om1lis- t-is/ As
to t-e a,tions o2 t-ose w-o do e4il* b0t w-ose e4il is ,0rable* in t-e
2irst 1la,e* let 0s remember t-at t-e 0nj0st man is not 0nj0st o2
-is own 2ree will/ "or no man o2 -is own 2ree will wo0ld ,-oose to
1ossess t-e .reatest o2 e4ils* and least o2 all in t-e most -ono0rable
1art o2 -imsel2/ And t-e so0l* as we said* is o2 a tr0t- deemed by all
men t-e most -ono0rable/ In t-e so0l* t-en* w-i,- is t-e most
-ono0rable 1art o2 -im* no one* i2 -e ,o0ld -el1* wo0ld admit* or
allow to ,ontin0e t-e .reatest o2 e4ils/ #-e 0nri.-teo0s and 4i,io0s
are always to be 1itied in any ,ase) and one ,an a22ord to 2or.i4e
as well as 1ity -im w-o is ,0rable* and re2rain and ,alm one=s
an.er* not .ettin. into a 1assion* li6e a woman* and n0rsin.
ill92eelin./ B0t 01on -im w-o is in,a1able o2 re2ormation and w-olly
e4il* t-e 4ials o2 o0r wrat- s-o0ld be 1o0red o0t) w-ere2ore I say
t-at .ood men o0.-t* w-en o,,asion demands* to be bot- .entle and
1assionate/
O2 all e4ils t-e .reatest is one w-i,- in t-e so0ls o2 most men is
innate* and w-i,- a man is always e:,0sin. in -imsel2 and ne4er
,orre,tin.) mean* w-at is e:1ressed in t-e sayin. t-at AE4ery man by
nat0re is and o0.-t to be -is own 2riend/A W-ereas t-e e:,essi4e
lo4e o2 sel2 is in reality t-e so0r,e to ea,- man o2 all o22en,es) 2or
t-e lo4er is blinded abo0t t-e belo4ed* so t-at -e j0d.es wron.ly o2
t-e j0st* t-e .ood* and t-e -ono0rable* and t-in6s t-at -e o0.-t
always to 1re2er -imsel2 to t-e tr0t-/ B0t -e w-o wo0ld be a .reat man
o0.-t to re.ard* not -imsel2 or -is interests* b0t w-at is j0st*
w-et-er t-e j0st a,t be -is own or t-at o2 anot-er/ #-ro0.- a
similar error men are ind0,ed to 2an,y t-at t-eir own i.noran,e is
wisdom* and t-0s we w-o may be tr0ly said to 6now not-in.* t-in6
t-at we 6now all t-in.s) and be,a0se we will not let ot-ers a,t 2or 0s
in w-at we do not 6now* we are ,om1elled to a,t amiss o0rsel4es/
W-ere2ore let e4ery man a4oid e:,ess o2 sel29lo4e* and ,ondes,end to
2ollow a better man t-an -imsel2* not allowin. any 2alse s-ame to
stand in t-e way/ #-ere are also minor 1re,e1ts w-i,- are o2ten
re1eated* and are ;0ite as 0se20l) a man s-o0ld re,olle,t t-em and
remind -imsel2 o2 t-em/ "or w-en a stream is 2lowin. o0t* t-ere s-o0ld
be water 2lowin. in too) and re,olle,tion 2lows in w-ile wisdom is
de1artin./ #-ere2ore I say t-at a man s-o0ld re2rain 2rom e:,ess
eit-er o2 la0.-ter or tears* and s-o0ld e:-ort -is nei.-bo0r to do t-e
same) -e s-o0ld 4eil -is immoderate sorrow or joy* and see6 to
be-a4e wit- 1ro1riety* w-et-er t-e .eni0s o2 -is .ood 2ort0ne
remains wit- -im* or w-et-er at t-e ,risis o2 -is 2ate* w-en -e
seems to be mo0ntin. -i.- and stee1 1la,es* t-e &ods o11ose -im in
some o2 -is enter1rises/ Still -e may e4er -o1e* in t-e ,ase o2 .ood
men* t-at w-ate4er a22li,tions are to be2all t-em in t-e 20t0re &od
will lessen* and t-at 1resent e4ils -e will ,-an.e 2or t-e better) and
as to t-e .oods w-i,- are t-e o11osite o2 t-ese e4ils* -e will not
do0bt t-at t-ey will be added to t-em* and t-at t-ey will be
2ort0nate/ S0,- s-o0ld be men=s -o1es* and s0,- s-o0ld be t-e
e:-ortations wit- w-i,- t-ey admonis- one anot-er* ne4er losin. an
o11ort0nity* b0t on e4ery o,,asion distin,tly remindin. t-emsel4es and
ot-ers o2 all t-ese t-in.s* bot- in jest and earnest/
Eno0.- -as now been said o2 di4ine matters* bot- as to0,-in. t-e
1ra,ti,es w-i,- men o0.-t to 2ollow* and as to t-e sort o2 1ersons w-o
t-ey o0.-t se4erally to be/ B0t o2 -0man t-in.s we -a4e not as yet
s1o6en* and we m0st) 2or to men we are dis,o0rsin. and not to &ods/
Pleas0res and 1ains and desires are a 1art o2 -0man nat0re* and on
t-em e4ery mortal bein. m0st o2 ne,essity -an. and de1end wit- t-e
most ea.er interest/ And t-ere2ore we m0st 1raise t-e noblest li2e*
not only as t-e 2airest in a11earan,e* b0t as bein. one w-i,-* i2 a
man will only taste* and not* w-ile still in -is yo0t-* desert 2or
anot-er* -e will 2ind to s0r1ass also in t-e 4ery t-in. w-i,- we all
o2 0s desire9I mean in -a4in. a .reater amo0nt o2 1leas0re and less o2
1ain d0rin. t-e w-ole o2 li2e/ And t-is will be 1lain* i2 a man -as
a tr0e taste o2 t-em* as will be ;0i,6ly and ,learly seen/ B0t w-at is
a tr0e taste3 #-at we -a4e to learn 2rom t-e ar.0ment9t-e 1oint
bein. w-at is a,,ordin. to nat0re* and w-at is not a,,ordin. to
nat0re/ One li2e m0st be ,om1ared wit- anot-er* t-e more 1leas0rable
wit- t-e more 1ain20l* a2ter t-is manner(9We desire to -a4e
1leas0re* b0t we neit-er desire nor ,-oose 1ain) and t-e ne0tral state
we are ready to ta6e in e:,-an.e* not 2or 1leas0re b0t 2or 1ain) and
we also wis- 2or less 1ain and .reater 1leas0re* b0t less 1leas0re and
.reater 1ain we do not wis- 2or) and an e;0al balan,e o2 eit-er we
,annot 4ent0re to assert t-at we s-o0ld desire/ And all t-ese di22er
or do not di22er se4erally in n0mber and ma.nit0de and intensity and
e;0ality* and in t-e o11osites o2 t-ese w-en re.arded as obje,ts o2
,-oi,e* in relation to desire/ And s0,- bein. t-e ne,essary order o2
t-in.s* we wis- 2or t-at li2e in w-i,- t-ere are many .reat and
intense elements o2 1leas0re and 1ain* and in w-i,- t-e 1leas0res
are in e:,ess* and do not wis- 2or t-at in w-i,- t-e o11osites e:,eed)
nor* a.ain* do we wis- 2or t-at in w-i,- t-e ,lements o2 eit-er are
small and 2ew and 2eeble* and t-e 1ains e:,eed/ And w-en* as I said
be2ore* t-ere is a balan,e o2 1leas0re and 1ain in li2e* t-is is to be
re.arded by 0s as t-e balan,ed li2e) w-ile ot-er li4es are 1re2erred
by 0s be,a0se t-ey e:,eed in w-at we li6e* or are reje,ted by 0s
be,a0se t-ey e:,eed in w-at we disli6e/ All t-e li4es o2 men may be
re.arded by 0s as bo0nd 01 in t-ese* and we m0st also ,onsider w-at
sort o2 li4es we by nat0re desire/ And i2 we wis- 2or any ot-ers* I
say t-at we desire t-em only t-ro0.- some i.noran,e and ine:1erien,e
o2 t-e li4es w-i,- a,t0ally e:ist/
!ow* w-at li4es are t-ey* and -ow many in w-i,-* -a4in. sear,-ed o0t
and be-eld t-e obje,ts o2 will and desire and t-eir o11osites* and
ma6in. o2 t-em a law* ,-oosin.* I say* t-e dear and t-e 1leasant and
t-e best and noblest* a man may li4e in t-e -a11iest way 1ossible3 Let
0s say t-at t-e tem1erate li2e is one 6ind o2 li2e* and t-e rational
anot-er* and t-e ,o0ra.eo0s anot-er* and t-e -ealt-20l anot-er) and to
t-ese 2o0r let 0s o11ose 2o0r ot-er li4es9t-e 2oolis-* t-e ,owardly*
t-e intem1erate* t-e diseased/ $e w-o 6nows t-e tem1erate li2e will
des,ribe it as in all t-in.s .entle* -a4in. .entle 1ains and .entle
1leas0res* and 1la,id desires and lo4es not insane) w-ereas t-e
intem1erate li2e is im1et0o0s in all t-in.s* and -as 4iolent 1ains and
1leas0res* and 4e-ement and stin.in. desires* and lo4es 0tterly
insane) and in t-e tem1erate li2e t-e 1leas0res e:,eed t-e 1ains*
b0t in t-e intem1erate li2e t-e 1ains e:,eed t-e 1leas0res in
.reatness and n0mber and 2re;0en,y/ $en,e one o2 t-e two li4es is
nat0rally and ne,essarily more 1leasant and t-e ot-er more 1ain20l*
and -e w-o wo0ld li4e 1leasantly ,annot 1ossibly ,-oose to li4e
intem1erately/ And i2 t-is is tr0e* t-e in2eren,e ,learly is t-at no
man is 4ol0ntarily intem1erate) b0t t-at t-e w-ole m0ltit0de o2 men
la,6 tem1eran,e in t-eir li4es* eit-er 2rom i.noran,e* or 2rom want o2
sel29,ontrol* or bot-/ And t-e same -olds o2 t-e diseased and
-ealt-y li2e) t-ey bot- -a4e 1leas0res and 1ains* b0t in -ealt- t-e
1leas0re e:,eeds t-e 1ain* and in si,6ness t-e 1ain e:,eeds t-e
1leas0re/ !ow o0r intention in ,-oosin. t-e li4es is not t-at t-e
1ain20l s-o0ld e:,eed* b0t t-e li2e in w-i,- 1ain is e:,eeded by
1leas0re we -a4e determined to be t-e more 1leasant li2e/ And we
s-o0ld say t-at t-e tem1erate li2e -as t-e elements bot- o2 1leas0re
and 1ain 2ewer and smaller and less 2re;0ent t-an t-e intem1erate* and
t-e wise li2e t-an t-e 2oolis- li2e* and t-e li2e o2 ,o0ra.e t-an
t-e li2e o2 ,owardi,e) one o2 ea,- 1air e:,eedin. in 1leas0re and
t-e ot-er in 1ain* t-e ,o0ra.eo0s s0r1assin. t-e ,owardly* and t-e
wise e:,eedin. t-e 2oolis-/ And so t-e one dass o2 li4es e:,eeds t-e
ot-er ,lass in 1leas0re) t-e tem1erate and ,o0ra.eo0s and wise and
-ealt-y e:,eed t-e ,owardly and 2oolis- and intem1erate and diseased
li4es) and .enerally s1ea6in.* t-at w-i,- -as any 4irt0e* w-et-er o2
body or so0l* is 1leasanter t-an t-e 4i,io0s li2e* and 2ar s01erior in
bea0ty and re,tit0de and e:,ellen,e and re10tation* and ,a0ses -im w-o
li4es a,,ordin.ly to be in2initely -a11ier t-an t-e o11osite/
Eno0.- o2 t-e 1reamble) and now t-e laws s-o0ld 2ollow) or* to s1ea6
more ,orre,tly* o0tline o2 t-em/ As* t-en* in t-e ,ase o2 a web or any
ot-er tiss0e* t-e war1 and t-e woo2 ,annot be made o2 t-e same
materials* b0t t-e war1 is ne,essarily s01erior as bein. stron.er* and
-a4in. a ,ertain ,-ara,ter o2 2irmness* w-ereas t-e woo2 is so2ter and
-as a 1ro1er de.ree o2 elasti,ity)9in a similar manner t-ose w-o are
to -old .reat o22i,es in states* s-o0ld be distin.0is-ed tr0ly in ea,-
,ase 2rom t-ose w-o -a4e been b0t slenderly 1ro4en by ed0,ation/ Let
0s s011ose t-at t-ere are two 1arts in t-e ,onstit0tion o2 a state9one
t-e ,reation o2 o22i,es* t-e ot-er t-e laws w-i,- are assi.ned to t-em
to administer/
B0t* be2ore all t-is* ,omes t-e 2ollowin. ,onsideration(9#-e
s-e1-erd or -erdsman* or breeder o2 -orses or t-e li6e* w-en -e -as
re,ei4ed -is animals will not be.in to train t-em 0ntil -e -as 2irst
10ri2ied t-em in a manner w-i,- be2its a ,omm0nity o2 animals) -e will
di4ide t-e -ealt-y and 0n-ealt-y* and t-e .ood breed and t-e bad
breed* and will send away t-e 0n-ealt-y and badly bred to ot-er -erds*
and tend t-e rest* re2le,tin. t-at -is labo0rs will be 4ain and -a4e
no e22e,t* eit-er on t-e so0ls or bodies o2 t-ose w-om nat0re and
ill n0rt0re -a4e ,orr01ted* and t-at t-ey will in4ol4e in
destr0,tion t-e 10re and -ealt-y nat0re and bein. o2 e4ery ot-er
animal* i2 -e s-o0ld ne.le,t to 10ri2y t-em/ !ow t-e ,ase o2 ot-er
animals is not so im1ortant9t-ey are only wort- introd0,in. 2or t-e
sa6e o2 ill0stration) b0t w-at relates to man is o2 t-e -i.-est
im1ortan,e) and t-e le.islator s-o0ld ma6e en;0iries* and indi,ate
w-at is 1ro1er 2or ea,- one in t-e way o2 10ri2i,ation and o2 any
ot-er 1ro,ed0re/ #a6e* 2or e:am1le* t-e 10ri2i,ation o2 a ,ity9t-ere
are many 6inds o2 10ri2i,ation* some easier and ot-ers more di22i,0lt)
and some o2 t-em* and t-e best and most di22i,0lt o2 t-em* t-e
le.islator* i2 -e be also a des1ot* may be able to e22e,t) b0t t-e
le.islator* w-o* not bein. a des1ot* sets 01 a new .o4ernment and
laws* e4en i2 -e attem1t t-e mildest o2 10r.ations* may t-in6
-imsel2 -a11y i2 -e ,an ,om1lete -is wor6/ #-e best 6ind o2
10ri2i,ation is 1ain20l* li6e similar ,0res in medi,ine* in4ol4in.
ri.-teo0s 10nis-ment and in2li,tin. deat- or e:ile in t-e last resort/
"or in t-is way we ,ommonly dis1ose o2 .reat sinners w-o are
in,0rable* and are t-e .reatest inj0ry o2 t-e w-ole state/ B0t t-e
milder 2orm o2 10ri2i,ation is as 2ollows(9w-en men w-o -a4e
not-in.* and are in want o2 2ood* s-ow a dis1osition to 2ollow t-eir
leaders in an atta,6 on t-e 1ro1erty o2 t-e ri,-9t-ese* w-o are t-e
nat0ral 1la.0e o2 t-e state* are sent away by t-e le.islator in a
2riendly s1irit as 2ar as -e is able) and t-is dismissal o2 t-em is
e01-emisti,ally termed a ,olony/ And e4ery le.islator s-o0ld
,ontri4e to do t-is at on,e/ O0r 1resent ,ase* -owe4er* is 1e,0liar/
"or t-ere is no need to de4ise any ,olony or 10ri2yin. se1aration
0nder t-e ,ir,0mstan,es in w-i,- we are 1la,ed/ B0t as* w-en many
streams 2low to.et-er 2rom many so0r,es* w-et-er s1rin.s or mo0ntain
torrents* into a sin.le la6e* we o0.-t to attend and ta6e ,are t-at
t-e ,on2l0ent waters s-o0ld be 1er2e,tly ,lear* and in order to e22e,t
t-is* s-o0ld 10m1 and draw o22 and di4ert im10rities* so in e4ery
1oliti,al arran.ement t-ere may be tro0ble and dan.er/ B0t* seein.
t-at we are now only dis,o0rsin. and not a,tin.* let o0r sele,tion
be s011osed to be ,om1leted* and t-e desired 10rity attained/ #o0,-in.
e4il men* w-o want to join and be ,iti<ens o2 o0r state* a2ter we -a4e
tested t-em by e4ery sort o2 1ers0asion and 2or a s022i,ient time*
we will 1re4ent t-em 2rom ,omin.) b0t t-e .ood we will to t-e 0tmost
o2 o0r ability re,ei4e as 2riends wit- o1en arms/
Anot-er 1ie,e o2 .ood 2ort0ne m0st not be 2or.otten* w-i,-* as we
were sayin.* t-e $era,lid ,olony -ad* and w-i,- is also o0rs9t-at we
-a4e es,a1ed di4ision o2 land and t-e abolition o2 debts) 2or t-ese
are always a so0r,e o2 dan.ero0s ,ontention* and a ,ity w-i,- is
dri4en by ne,essity to le.islate 01on s0,- matters ,an neit-er allow
t-e old ways to ,ontin0e* nor yet 4ent0re to alter t-em/ We m0st
-a4e re,o0rse to 1rayers* so to s1ea6* and -o1e t-at a sli.-t ,-an.e
may be ,a0tio0sly e22e,ted in a len.t- o2 time/ And s0,- a ,-an.e
,an be a,,om1lis-ed by t-ose w-o -a4e ab0ndan,e o2 land* and -a4in.
also many debtors* are willin.* in a 6indly s1irit* to s-are wit-
t-ose w-o are in want* sometimes remittin. and sometimes .i4in.*
-oldin. 2ast in a 1at- o2 moderation* and deemin. 1o4erty to be t-e
in,rease o2 a man=s desires and not t-e dimin0tion o2 -is 1ro1erty/
"or t-is is t-e .reat be.innin. o2 sal4ation to a state* and 01on t-is
lastin. basis may be ere,ted a2terwards w-ate4er 1oliti,al order is
s0itable 0nder t-e ,ir,0mstan,es) b0t i2 t-e ,-an.e be based 01on an
0nso0nd 1rin,i1le* t-e 20t0re administration o2 t-e ,o0ntry will be
20ll o2 di22i,0lties/ #-at is a dan.er w-i,-* as I am sayin.* is
es,a1ed by 0s* and yet we -ad better say -ow* i2 we -ad not es,a1ed*
we mi.-t -a4e es,a1ed) and we may 4ent0re now to assert t-at no
ot-er way o2 es,a1e* w-et-er narrow or broad* ,an be de4ised b0t
2reedom 2rom a4ari,e and a sense o2 j0sti,e901on t-is ro,6 o0r ,ity
s-all be b0ilt) 2or t-ere o0.-t to be no dis10tes amon. ,iti<ens abo0t
1ro1erty/ I2 t-ere are ;0arrels o2 lon. standin. amon. t-em* no
le.islator o2 any de.ree o2 sense will 1ro,eed a ste1 in t-e
arran.ement o2 t-e state 0ntil t-ey are settled/ B0t t-at t-ey to w-om
&od -as .i4en* as -e -as to 0s* to be t-e 2o0nders o2 a new state as
yet 2ree 2rom enmity9t-at t-ey s-o0ld ,reate t-emsel4es enmities by
t-eir mode o2 distrib0tin. lands and -o0ses* wo0ld be s01er-0man 2olly
and wi,6edness/
$ow t-en ,an we ri.-tly order t-e distrib0tion o2 t-e land3 In t-e
2irst 1la,e* t-e n0mber o2 t-e ,iti<ens -as to be determined* and also
t-e n0mber and si<e o2 t-e di4isions into w-i,- t-ey will -a4e to be
2ormed) and t-e land and t-e -o0ses will t-en -a4e to be a11ortioned
by 0s as 2airly as we ,an/ #-e n0mber o2 ,iti<ens ,an only be
estimated satis2a,torily in relation to t-e territory and t-e
nei.-bo0rin. states/ #-e territory m0st be s022i,ient to maintain a
,ertain n0mber o2 in-abitants in a moderate way o2 li2e9more t-an t-is
is not re;0ired) and t-e n0mber o2 ,iti<ens s-o0ld be s022i,ient to
de2end t-emsel4es a.ainst t-e inj0sti,e o2 t-eir nei.-bo0rs* and
also to .i4e t-em t-e 1ower o2 renderin. e22i,ient aid to t-eir
nei.-bo0rs w-en t-ey are wron.ed/ A2ter -a4in. ta6en a s0r4ey o2
t-eirs and t-eir nei.-bo0rs= territory* we will determine t-e limits
o2 t-em in 2a,t as well as in t-eory/ And now* let 0s 1ro,eed to
le.islate wit- a 4iew to 1er2e,tin. t-e 2orm and o0tline o2 o0r state/
#-e n0mber o2 o0r ,iti<ens s-all be F0G09t-is will be a ,on4enient
n0mber) and t-ese s-all be owners o2 t-e land and 1rote,tors o2 t-e
allotment/ #-e -o0ses and t-e land will be di4ided in t-e same way* so
t-at e4ery man may ,orres1ond to a lot/ Let t-e w-ole n0mber be
2irst di4ided into two 1arts* and t-en into t-ree) and t-e n0mber is
20rt-er ,a1able o2 bein. di4ided into 2o0r or 2i4e 1arts* or any
n0mber o2 1arts 01 to ten/ E4ery le.islator o0.-t to 6now so m0,-
arit-meti, as to be able to tell w-at n0mber is most li6ely to be
0se20l to all ,ities) and we are .oin. to ta6e t-at n0mber w-i,-
,ontains t-e .reatest and most re.0lar and 0nbro6en series o2
di4isions/ #-e w-ole o2 n0mber -as e4ery 1ossible di4ision* and t-e
n0mber F0G0 ,an be di4ided by e:a,tly 2i2ty9nine di4isors* and ten
o2 t-ese 1ro,eed wit-o0t inter4al 2rom one to ten( t-is will 20rnis-
n0mbers 2or war and 1ea,e* and 2or all ,ontra,ts and dealin.s*
in,l0din. ta:es and di4isions o2 t-e land/ #-ese 1ro1erties o2
n0mber s-o0ld be as,ertained at leis0re by t-ose w-o are bo0nd by
law to 6now t-em) 2or t-ey are tr0e* and s-o0ld be 1ro,laimed at t-e
2o0ndation o2 t-e ,ity* wit- a 4iew to 0se/ W-et-er t-e le.islator
is establis-in. a new state or restorin. an old and de,ayed one* in
res1e,t o2 &ods and tem1les9t-e tem1les w-i,- are to be b0ilt in
ea,- ,ity* and t-e &ods or demi9.ods a2ter w-om t-ey are to be
,alled9i2 -e be a man o2 sense* -e will ma6e no ,-an.e in anyt-in.
w-i,- t-e ora,le o2 %el1-i* or %odona* or t-e &od Ammon* or any
an,ient tradition -as san,tioned in w-ate4er manner* w-et-er by
a11aritions or re10ted ins1iration o2 $ea4en* in obedien,e to w-i,-
man6ind -a4e establis-ed sa,ri2i,es in ,onne,tion wit- mysti, rites*
eit-er ori.inatin. on t-e s1ot* or deri4ed 2rom #yrr-enia or Cy1r0s or
some ot-er 1la,e* and on t-e stren.t- o2 w-i,- traditions t-ey -a4e
,onse,rated ora,les and ima.es* and altars and tem1les* and
1ortioned o0t a sa,red domain 2or ea,- o2 t-em/ #-e least 1art o2
all t-ese o0.-t not to be dist0rbed by t-e le.islator) b0t -e s-o0ld
assi.n to t-e se4eral distri,ts some &od* or demi9.od* or -ero* and*
in t-e distrib0tion o2 t-e soil* s-o0ld .i4e to t-ese 2irst t-eir
,-osen domain and all t-in.s 2ittin.* t-at t-e in-abitants o2 t-e
se4eral distri,ts may meet at 2i:ed times* and t-at t-ey may readily
s011ly t-eir 4ario0s wants* and entertain one anot-er wit- sa,ri2i,es*
and be,ome 2riends and a,;0aintan,es) 2or t-ere is no .reater .ood
in a state t-an t-at t-e ,iti<ens s-o0ld be 6nown to one anot-er/ W-en
not li.-t b0t dar6ness and i.noran,e o2 ea,- ot-er=s ,-ara,ters
1re4ails amon. t-em* no one will re,ei4e t-e -ono0r o2 w-i,- -e is
deser4in.* or t-e 1ower or t-e j0sti,e to w-i,- -e is 2airly entitled(
w-ere2ore* in e4ery state* abo4e all t-in.s* e4ery man s-o0ld ta6e
-eed t-at -e -a4e no de,eit in -im* b0t t-at -e be always tr0e and
sim1le) and t-at no de,eit20l 1erson ta6e any ad4anta.e o2 -im/
#-e ne:t mo4e in o0r 1astime o2 le.islation* li6e t-e wit-drawal
o2 t-e stone 2rom t-e -oly line in t-e .ame o2 dra0.-ts* bein. an
0n0s0al one* will 1robably e:,ite wonder w-en mentioned 2or t-e
2irst time/ And yet* i2 a man will only re2le,t and wei.- t-e matter
wit- ,are* -e will see t-at o0r ,ity is ordered in a manner w-i,-*
i2 not t-e best* is t-e se,ond best/ Per-a1s also some one may not
a11ro4e t-is 2orm* be,a0se -e t-in6s t-at s0,- a ,onstit0tion is ill
ada1ted to a le.islator w-o -as not des1oti, 1ower/ #-e tr0t- is* t-at
t-ere are t-ree 2orms o2 .o4ernment* t-e best* t-e se,ond and t-e
t-ird best* w-i,- we may j0st mention* and t-en lea4e t-e sele,tion to
t-e r0ler o2 t-e settlement/ "ollowin. t-is met-od in t-e 1resent
instan,e* let 0s s1ea6 o2 t-e states w-i,- are res1e,ti4ely 2irst*
se,ond* and t-ird in e:,ellen,e* and t-en we will lea4e t-e ,-oi,e
to Cleinias now* or to any one else w-o may -erea2ter -a4e to ma6e a
similar ,-oi,e amon. ,onstit0tions* and may desire to .i4e to -is
state some 2eat0re w-i,- is ,on.enial to -im and w-i,- -e a11ro4es
in -is own ,o0ntry/
#-e 2irst and -i.-est 2orm o2 t-e state and o2 t-e .o4ernment and o2
t-e law is t-at in w-i,- t-ere 1re4ails most widely t-e an,ient
sayin.* t-at A"riends -a4e all t-in.s in ,ommon/A W-et-er t-ere is
anyw-ere now* or will e4er be* t-is ,omm0nion o2 women and ,-ildren
and o2 1ro1erty* in w-i,- t-e 1ri4ate and indi4id0al is alto.et-er
banis-ed 2rom li2e* and t-in.s w-i,- are by nat0re 1ri4ate* s0,- as
eyes and ears and -ands* -a4e be,ome ,ommon* and in some way see and
-ear and a,t in ,ommon* and all men e:1ress 1raise and blame and
2eel joy and sorrow on t-e same o,,asions* and w-ate4er laws t-ere are
0nite t-e ,ity to t-e 0tmost9w-et-er all t-is is 1ossible or not* I
say t-at no man* a,tin. 01on any ot-er 1rin,i1le* will e4er ,onstit0te
a state w-i,- will be tr0er or better or more e:alted in 4irt0e/
W-et-er s0,- a state is .o4erned by &ods or sons o2 &ods* one* or more
t-an one* -a11y are t-e men w-o* li4in. a2ter t-is manner* dwell
t-ere) and t-ere2ore to t-is we are to loo6 2or t-e 1attern o2 t-e
state* and to ,lin. to t-is* and to see6 wit- all o0r mi.-t 2or one
w-i,- is li6e t-is/ #-e state w-i,- we -a4e now in -and* w-en ,reated*
will be nearest to immortality and t-e only one w-i,- ta6es t-e se,ond
1la,e) and a2ter t-at* by t-e .ra,e o2 &od* we will ,om1lete t-e t-ird
one/ And we will be.in by s1ea6in. o2 t-e nat0re and ori.in o2 t-e
se,ond/
Let t-e ,iti<ens at on,e distrib0te t-eir land and -o0ses* and not
till t-e land in ,ommon* sin,e a ,omm0nity o2 .oods .oes beyond
t-eir 1ro1osed ori.in* and n0rt0re* and ed0,ation/ B0t in ma6in. t-e
distrib0tion* let t-e se4eral 1ossessors 2eel t-at t-eir 1arti,0lar
lots also belon. to t-e w-ole ,ity) and seein. t-at t-e eart- is t-eir
1arent* let t-em tend -er more ,are20lly t-an ,-ildren do t-eir
mot-er/ "or s-e is a .oddess and t-eir ;0een* and t-ey are -er
mortal s0bje,ts/ S0,- also are t-e 2eelin.s w-i,- t-ey o0.-t to
entertain to t-e &ods and demi9.ods o2 t-e ,o0ntry/ And in order
t-at t-e distrib0tion may always remain* t-ey o0.-t to ,onsider
20rt-er t-at t-e 1resent n0mber o2 2amilies s-o0ld be always retained*
and neit-er in,reased nor diminis-ed/ #-is may be se,0red 2or t-e
w-ole ,ity in t-e 2ollowin. manner(9Let t-e 1ossessor o2 a lot lea4e
t-e one o2 -is ,-ildren w-o is -is best belo4ed* and one only* to be
t-e -eir o2 -is dwellin.* and -is s0,,essor in t-e d0ty o2 ministerin.
to t-e &ods* t-e state and t-e 2amily* as well t-e li4in. members o2
it as t-ose w-o are de1arted w-en -e ,omes into t-e in-eritan,e) b0t
o2 -is ot-er ,-ildren* i2 -e -a4e more t-an one* -e s-all .i4e t-e
2emales in marria.e a,,ordin. to t-e law to be -erea2ter ena,ted*
and t-e males -e s-all distrib0te as sons to t-ose ,iti<ens w-o -a4e
no ,-ildren and are dis1osed to re,ei4e t-em) or i2 t-ere s-o0ld be
none s0,-* and 1arti,0lar indi4id0als -a4e too many ,-ildren* male
or 2emale* or too 2ew* as in t-e ,ase o2 barrenness9in all t-ese ,ases
let t-e -i.-est and most -ono0rable ma.istra,y ,reated by 0s j0d.e and
determine w-at is to be done wit- t-e red0ndant or de2i,ient* and
de4ise a means t-at t-e n0mber o2 F0G0 -o0ses s-all always remain
t-e same/ #-ere are many ways o2 re.0latin. n0mbers) 2or t-ey in
w-om .eneration is a22l0ent may be made to re2rain* and* on t-e
ot-er -and* s1e,ial ,are may be ta6en to in,rease t-e n0mber o2 birt-s
by rewards and sti.mas* or we may meet t-e e4il by t-e elder men
.i4in. ad4i,e and administerin. reb06e to t-e yo0n.er9in t-is way
t-e obje,t may be attained/ And i2 a2ter all t-ere be 4ery .reat
di22i,0lty abo0t t-e e;0al 1reser4ation o2 t-e F0G0 -o0ses* and
t-ere be an e:,ess o2 ,iti<ens* owin. to t-e too .reat lo4e o2 t-ose
w-o li4e to.et-er* and we are at o0r wits= end* t-ere is still t-e old
de4i,e o2ten mentioned by 0s o2 sendin. o0t a ,olony* w-i,- will
1art 2riends wit- 0s* and be ,om1osed o2 s0itable 1ersons/ I2* on
t-e ot-er -and* t-ere ,ome a wa4e bearin. a del0.e o2 disease* or a
1la.0e o2 war* and t-e in-abitants be,ome m0,- 2ewer t-an t-e
a11ointed n0mber by reason o2 berea4ement* we o0.-t not to introd0,e
,iti<ens o2 s10rio0s birt- and ed0,ation* i2 t-is ,an be a4oided)
b0t e4en &od is said not to be able to 2i.-t a.ainst ne,essity/
W-ere2ore let 0s s011ose t-is A-i.- ar.0mentA o2 o0rs to address
0s in t-e 2ollowin. terms(9Best o2 men* ,ease not to -ono0r
a,,ordin. to nat0re similarity and e;0ality and sameness and
a.reement* as re.ards n0mber and e4ery .ood and noble ;0ality/ And*
abo4e all* obser4e t-e a2oresaid n0mber F0G0 t-ro0.-o0t li2e) in t-e
se,ond 1la,e* do not dis1ara.e t-e small and modest 1ro1ortions o2 t-e
in-eritan,es w-i,- yo0 re,ei4ed in t-e distrib0tion* by b0yin. and
sellin. t-em to one anot-er/ "or t-en neit-er will t-e &od w-o .a4e
yo0 t-e lot be yo0r 2riend* nor will t-e le.islator) and indeed t-e
law de,lares to t-e disobedient t-at t-ese are t-e terms 01on w-i,- -e
may or may not ta6e t-e lot/ In t-e 2irst 1la,e* t-e eart- as -e is
in2ormed is sa,red to t-e &ods) and in t-e ne:t 1la,e* 1riests and
1riestesses will o22er 01 1rayers o4er a 2irst* and se,ond* and e4en a
t-ird sa,ri2i,e* t-at -e w-o b0ys or sells t-e -o0ses or lands w-i,-
-e -as re,ei4ed* may s022er t-e 10nis-ment w-i,- -e deser4es) and
t-ese t-eir 1rayers t-ey s-all write down in t-e tem1les* on tablets
o2 ,y1ress9wood* 2or t-e instr0,tion o2 1osterity/ +oreo4er t-ey
will set a wat,- o4er all t-ese t-in.s* t-at t-ey may be obser4ed)9t-e
ma.istra,y w-i,- -as t-e s-ar1est eyes s-all 6ee1 wat,- t-at any
in2rin.ement o2 t-ese ,ommands may be dis,o4ered and 10nis-ed as
o22en,es bot- a.ainst t-e law and t-e &od/ $ow .reat is t-e bene2it o2
s0,- an ordinan,e to all t-ose ,ities* w-i,- obey and are administered
a,,ordin.ly* no bad man ,an e4er 6now* as t-e old 1ro4erb says) b0t
only a man o2 e:1erien,e and .ood -abits/ "or in s0,- an order o2
t-in.s t-ere will not be m0,- o11ort0nity 2or ma6in. money) no man
eit-er o0.-t* or indeed will be allowed* to e:er,ise any i.noble
o,,01ation* o2 w-i,- t-e 40l.arity is a matter o2 re1roa,- to a
2reeman* and s-o0ld ne4er want to a,;0ire ri,-es by any s0,- means/
"0rt-er* t-e law enjoins t-at no 1ri4ate man s-all be allowed to
1ossess .old and sil4er* b0t only ,oin 2or daily 0se* w-i,- is
almost ne,essary in dealin. wit- artisans* and 2or 1ayment o2
-irelin.s* w-et-er sla4es or immi.rants* by all t-ose 1ersons w-o
re;0ire t-e 0se o2 t-em/ W-ere2ore o0r ,iti<ens* as we say* s-o0ld
-a4e a ,oin 1assin. ,0rrent amon. t-emsel4es* b0t not a,,e1ted amon.
t-e rest o2 man6ind) wit- a 4iew* -owe4er* to e:1editions and jo0rneys
to ot-er lands92or embassies* or 2or any ot-er o,,asion w-i,- may
arise o2 sendin. o0t a -erald* t-e state m0st also 1ossess a ,ommon
$elleni, ,0rren,y/ I2 a 1ri4ate 1erson is e4er obli.ed to .o abroad*
let -im -a4e t-e ,onsent o2 t-e ma.istrates and .o) and i2 w-en -e
ret0rns -e -as any 2orei.n money remainin.* let -im .i4e t-e s0r1l0s
ba,6 to t-e treas0ry* and re,ei4e a ,orres1ondin. s0m in t-e lo,al
,0rren,y/ And i2 -e is dis,o4ered to a11ro1riate it* let it be
,on2is,ated* and let -im w-o 6nows and does not in2orm be s0bje,t to
,0rse and dis-ono0r e;0ally -im w-o bro0.-t t-e money* and also to a
2ine not less in amo0nt t-an t-e 2orei.n money w-i,- -as been
bro0.-t ba,6/ In marryin. and .i4in. in marria.e* no one s-all .i4e or
re,ei4e any dowry at all) and no one s-all de1osit money wit-
anot-er w-om -e does not tr0st as a 2riend* nor s-all -e lend money
01on interest) and t-e borrower s-o0ld be 0nder no obli.ation to re1ay
eit-er ,a1ital or interest/ #-at t-ese 1rin,i1les are best* any one
may see w-o ,om1ares t-em wit- t-e 2irst 1rin,i1le and intention o2
a state/ #-e intention* as we a22irm* o2 a reasonable statesman* is
not w-at t-e many de,lare to be t-e obje,t o2 a .ood le.islator*
namely* t-at t-e state 2or t-e tr0e interests o2 w-i,- -e is
ad4isin. s-o0ld be as .reat and as ri,- as 1ossible* and s-o0ld
1ossess .old and sil4er* and -a4e t-e .reatest em1ire by sea and
land)9t-is t-ey ima.ine to be t-e real obje,t o2 le.islation* at t-e
same time addin.* in,onsistently* t-at t-e tr0e le.islator desires
to -a4e t-e ,ity t-e best and -a11iest 1ossible/ B0t t-ey do not see
t-at some o2 t-ese t-in.s are 1ossible* and some o2 t-em are
im1ossible) and -e w-o orders t-e state will desire w-at is
1ossible* and will not ind0l.e in 4ain wis-es or attem1ts to
a,,om1lis- t-at w-i,- is im1ossible/ #-e ,iti<en m0st indeed be
-a11y and .ood* and t-e le.islator will see6 to ma6e -im so) b0t
4ery ri,- and 4ery .ood at t-e same time -e ,annot be* not* at
least* in t-e sense in w-i,- t-e many s1ea6 o2 ri,-es/ "or t-ey mean
by At-e ri,-A t-e 2ew w-o -a4e t-e most 4al0able 1ossessions* alt-o0.-
t-e owner o2 t-em may ;0ite well be a ro.0e/ And i2 t-is is tr0e* I
,an ne4er assent to t-e do,trine t-at t-e ri,- man will be -a11y9-e
m0st be .ood as well as ri,-/ And .ood in a -i.- de.ree* and ri,- in a
-i.- de.ree at t-e same time* -e ,annot be/ Some one will as6* w-y
not3 And we s-all answer9Be,a0se a,;0isitions w-i,- ,ome 2rom
so0r,es w-i,- are j0st and 0nj0st indi22erently* are more t-an
do0ble t-ose w-i,- ,ome 2rom j0st so0r,es only) and t-e s0ms w-i,- are
e:1ended neit-er -ono0rably nor dis.ra,e20lly* are only -al2 as
.reat as t-ose w-i,- are e:1ended -ono0rably and on -ono0rable
10r1oses/ #-0s* i2 t-e one a,;0ires do0ble and s1ends -al2* t-e
ot-er w-o is in t-e o11osite ,ase and is a .ood man ,annot 1ossibly be
wealt-ier t-an -e/ #-e 2irst9I am s1ea6in. o2 t-e sa4er and not o2 t-e
s1ender9is not always bad) -e may indeed in some ,ases be 0tterly bad*
b0t* as I was sayin.* a .ood man -e ne4er is/ "or -e w-o re,ei4es
money 0nj0stly as well as j0stly* and s1ends neit-er nor 0nj0stly*
will be a ri,- man i2 -e be also t-ri2ty/ On t-e ot-er -and* t-e
0tterly bad is in .eneral 1ro2li.ate* and t-ere2ore 4ery 1oor) w-ile
-e w-o s1ends on noble obje,ts* and a,;0ires wealt- by j0st means
only* ,an -ardly be remar6able 2or ri,-es* any more t-an -e ,an be
4ery 1oor/ O0r statement* t-en* is tr0e* t-at t-e 4ery ri,- are not
.ood* and* i2 t-ey are not .ood* t-ey are not -a11y/ B0t t-e intention
o2 o0r laws was t-at t-e ,iti<ens s-o0ld be as -a11y as may be* and as
2riendly as 1ossible to one anot-er/ And men w-o are always at law
wit- one anot-er* and amon.st w-om t-ere are many wron.s done* ,an
ne4er be 2riends to one anot-er* b0t only t-ose amon. w-om ,rimes
and laws0its are 2ew and sli.-t/ #-ere2ore we say t-at .old and sil4er
o0.-t not to be allowed in t-e ,ity* nor m0,- o2 t-e 40l.ar sort o2
trade w-i,- is ,arried on by lendin. money* or rearin. t-e meaner
6inds o2 li4e sto,6) b0t only t-e 1rod0,e o2 a.ri,0lt0re* and only
so m0,- o2 t-is as will not ,om1el 0s in 10rs0in. it to ne.le,t t-at
2or t-e sa6e o2 w-i,- ri,-es e:ist9I mean* so0l and body* w-i,-
wit-o0t .ymnasti,s* and wit-o0t ed0,ation* will ne4er be wort-
anyt-in.) and t-ere2ore* as we -a4e said not on,e b0t many times*
t-e ,are o2 ri,-es s-o0ld -a4e t-e last 1la,e in o0r t-o0.-ts/ "or
t-ere are in all t-ree t-in.s abo0t w-i,- e4ery man -as an interest)
and t-e interest abo0t money* w-en ri.-tly re.arded* is t-e t-ird
and lowest o2 t-em( midway ,omes t-e interest o2 t-e body) and*
2irst o2 all* t-at o2 t-e so0l) and t-e state w-i,- we are
des,ribin. will -a4e been ri.-tly ,onstit0ted i2 it ordains -ono0rs
a,,ordin. to t-is s,ale/ B0t i2* in any o2 t-e laws w-i,- -a4e been
ordained* -ealt- -as been 1re2erred to tem1eran,e* or wealt- to -ealt-
and tem1erate -abits* t-at law m0st ,learly be wron./ W-ere2ore* also*
t-e le.islator o0.-t o2ten to im1ress 01on -imsel2 t-e
;0estion9AW-at do I want3A and A%o I attain my aim* or do I miss t-e
mar63A In t-is way* and in t-is way only* -e ma a,;0it -imsel2 and
2ree ot-ers 2rom t-e wor6 o2 le.islation/
Let t-e allottee t-en -old -is lot 01on t-e ,onditions w-i,- we -a4e
mentioned/
It wo0ld be well t-at e4ery man s-o0ld ,ome to t-e ,olony -a4in. all
t-in.s e;0al) b0t seein. t-at t-is is not 1ossible* and one man will
-a4e .reater 1ossessions t-an anot-er* 2or many reasons and in
1arti,0lar in order to 1reser4e e;0ality in s1e,ial ,rises o2 t-e
state* ;0ali2i,ations o2 1ro1erty m0st be 0ne;0al* in order t-at
o22i,es and ,ontrib0tions and distrib0tions may be 1ro1ortioned to t-e
4al0e o2 ea,- 1erson=s wealt-* and not solely to t-e 4irt0e o2 -is
an,estors or -imsel2* nor yet to t-e stren.t- and bea0ty o2 -is
1erson* b0t also to t-e meas0re o2 -is wealt- or 1o4erty) and so by
a law o2 ine;0ality* w-i,- will be in 1ro1ortion to -is wealt-* -e
will re,ei4e -ono0rs and o22i,es as e;0ally as 1ossible* and t-ere
will be no ;0arrels and dis10tes/ #o w-i,- end t-ere s-o0ld be 2o0r
di22erent standards a11ointed a,,ordin. to t-e amo0nt o2 1ro1erty(
t-ere s-o0ld be a 2irst and a se,ond and a t-ird and a 2o0rt- ,lass*
in w-i,- t-e ,iti<ens will be 1la,ed* and t-ey will be ,alled by t-ese
or similar names( t-ey may ,ontin0e in t-e same ran6* or 1ass into
anot-er in any indi4id0al ,ase* on be,omin. ri,-er 2rom bein.* 1oorer*
or 1oorer 2rom bein. ri,-er/ #-e 2orm o2 law w-i,- I s-o0ld 1ro1ose as
t-e nat0ral se;0el wo0ld be as 2ollows(9In a state w-i,- is desiro0s
o2 bein. sa4ed 2rom t-e .reatest o2 all 1la.0es9not 2a,tion* b0t
rat-er distra,tion)9-ere s-o0ld e:ist amon. t-e ,iti<ens neit-er
e:treme 1o4erty* nor* a.ain* e:,ess o2 wealt-* 2or bot- are 1rod0,ti4e
o2 bot- t-ese e4ils/ !ow t-e le.islator s-o0ld determine w-at is to be
t-e limit o2 1o4erty or wealt-/ Let t-e limit o2 1o4erty be t-e
4al0e o2 t-e lot) t-is o0.-t to be 1reser4ed* and no r0ler* nor any
one else w-o as1ires a2ter a re10tation 2or 4irt0e* will allow t-e lot
to be im1aired in any ,ase/ #-is t-e le.islator .i4es as a meas0re*
and -e will 1ermit a man to a,;0ire do0ble or tri1le* or as m0,- as
2o0r times t-e amo0nt o2 t-is/ B0t i2 a 1erson -a4e yet .reater
ri,-es* w-et-er -e -as 2o0nd t-em* or t-ey -a4e been .i4en to -im*
or -e -as made t-em in b0siness* or -as a,;0ired by any stro6e o2
2ort0ne t-at w-i,- is in e:,ess o2 t-e meas0re* i2 -e .i4e ba,6 t-e
s0r1l0s to t-e state* and to t-e &ods w-o are t-e 1atrons o2 t-e
state* -e s-all s022er no 1enalty or loss o2 re10tation) b0t i2 -e
disobeys t-is o0r law any one w-o li6es may in2orm a.ainst -im and
re,ei4e -al2 t-e 4al0e o2 t-e e:,ess* and t-e delin;0ent s-all 1ay a
s0m e;0al to t-e e:,ess o0t o2 -is own 1ro1erty* and t-e ot-er -al2 o2
t-e e:,ess s-all belon. to t-e &ods/ And let e4ery 1ossession o2 e4ery
man* wit- t-e e:,e1tion o2 t-e lot* be 10bli,ly re.istered be2ore
t-e ma.istrates w-om t-e law a11oints* so t-at all s0its abo0t money
may be easy and ;0ite sim1le/
#-e ne:t t-in. to be noted is* t-at t-e ,ity s-o0ld be 1la,ed as
nearly as 1ossible in t-e ,entre o2 t-e ,o0ntry) we s-o0ld ,-oose a
1la,e w-i,- 1ossesses w-at is s0itable 2or a ,ity* and t-is may easily
be ima.ined and des,ribed/ #-en we will di4ide t-e ,ity into twel4e
1ortions* 2irst 2o0ndin. tem1les to $estia* to 5e0s and to At-ene*
in a s1ot w-i,- we will ,all t-e A,ro1olis* and s0rro0nd wit- a
,ir,0lar wall* ma6in. t-e di4ision o2 t-e entire ,ity and ,o0ntry
radiate 2rom t-is 1oint/ #-e twel4e 1ortions s-all be e;0ali<ed by t-e
1ro4ision t-at t-ose w-i,- are o2 .ood land s-all be smaller/ w-ile
t-ose o2 in2erior ;0ality s-all be lar.er/ #-e n0mber o2 t-e lots
s-all be F0G0* and ea,- o2 t-em s-all be di4ided into two* and e4ery
allotment s-all be ,om1osed o2 two s0,- se,tions) one o2 land near t-e
,ity* t-e ot-er o2 land w-i,- is at a distan,e/ #-is arran.ement s-all
be ,arried o0t in t-e 2ollowin. manner( #-e se,tion w-i,- is near
t-e ,ity s-all be added to t-at w-i,- is on borders* and 2orm one lot*
and t-e 1ortion w-i,- is ne:t nearest s-all be added to t-e 1ortion
w-i,- is ne:t 2art-est) and so o2 t-e rest/ +oreo4er* in t-e two
se,tions o2 t-e lots t-e same 1rin,i1le o2 e;0ali<ation o2 t-e soil
o0.-t to be maintained) t-e badness and .oodness s-all be
,om1ensated by more and less/ And t-e le.islator s-all di4ide t-e
,iti<ens into twel4e 1arts* and arran.e t-e rest o2 t-eir 1ro1erty* as
2ar as 1ossible* so as to 2orm twel4e e;0al 1arts) and t-ere s-all
be a re.istration o2 all/ A2ter t-is t-ey s-all assi.n twel4e lots
to twel4e &ods* and ,all t-em by t-eir names* and dedi,ate to ea,- &od
t-eir se4eral 1ortions* and ,all t-e tribes a2ter t-em/ And t-ey s-all
distrib0te t-e twel4e di4isions o2 t-e ,ity in t-e same way in w-i,-
t-ey di4ided t-e ,o0ntry) and e4ery man s-all -a4e two -abitations*
one in t-e ,entre o2 t-e ,o0ntry* and t-e ot-er at t-e e:tremity/
Eno0.- o2 t-e manner o2 settlement/
!ow we o0.-t by all means to ,onsider t-at t-ere ,an ne4er be s0,- a
-a11y ,on,0rren,e o2 ,ir,0mstan,es as we -a4e des,ribed) neit-er ,an
all t-in.s ,oin,ide as t-ey are wanted/ +en w-o will not ta6e
o22en,e at s0,- a mode o2 li4in. to.et-er* and will end0re all t-eir
li2e lon. to -a4e t-eir 1ro1erty 2i:ed at a moderate limit* and to
be.et ,-ildren in a,,ordan,e wit- o0r ordinan,es* and will allow
t-emsel4es to be de1ri4ed o2 .old and ot-er t-in.s w-i,- t-e
le.islator* as is e4ident 2rom t-ese ena,tments* will ,ertainly 2orbid
t-em) and will end0re* 20rt-er* t-e sit0ation o2 t-e land wit- t-e
,ity in t-e middle and dwellin.s ro0nd abo0t)9all t-is is as i2 t-e
le.islator were tellin. -is dreams* or ma6in. a ,ity and ,iti<ens o2
wa:/ #-ere is tr0t- in t-ese obje,tions* and t-ere2ore e4ery one
s-o0ld ta6e to -eart w-at I am .oin. to say/ On,e more* t-en* t-e
le.islator s-all a11ear and address 0s(9AO my 2riends*A -e will say to
0s* Ado not s011ose me i.norant t-at t-ere is a ,ertain de.ree o2
tr0t- in yo0r words) b0t I am o2 o1inion t-at* in matters w-i,- are
not 1resent b0t 20t0re* -e w-o e:-ibits a 1attern o2 t-at at w-i,-
-e aims* s-o0ld in not-in. 2all s-ort o2 t-e 2airest and tr0est) and
t-at i2 -e 2inds any 1art o2 t-is wor6 im1ossible o2 e:e,0tion -e
s-o0ld a4oid and not e:e,0te it* b0t -e s-o0ld ,ontri4e to ,arry o0t
t-at w-i,- is nearest and most a6in to it) yo0 m0st allow t-e
le.islator to 1er2e,t -is desi.n* and w-en it is 1er2e,ted* yo0 s-o0ld
join wit- -im in ,onsiderin. w-at 1art o2 -is le.islation is e:1edient
and w-at will aro0se o11osition) 2or s0rely t-e artist w-o is to be
deemed wort-y o2 any re.ard at all* o0.-t always to ma6e -is wor6
sel29,onsistent/A
$a4in. determined t-at t-ere is to be a distrib0tion into twel4e
1arts* let 0s now see in w-at way t-is may be a,,om1lis-ed/ #-ere is
no di22i,0lty in 1er,ei4in. t-at t-e twel4e 1arts admit o2 t-e
.reatest n0mber o2 di4isions o2 t-at w-i,- t-ey in,l0de* or in
seein. t-e ot-er n0mbers w-i,- are ,onse;0ent 01on t-em* and are
1rod0,ed o0t o2 t-em 01 to F0G0) w-ere2ore t-e law o0.-t to order
1-ratries and demes and 4illa.es* and also military ran6s and
mo4ements* as well as ,oins and meas0res* dry and li;0id* and wei.-ts*
so as to be ,ommens0rable and a.reeable to one anot-er/ !or s-o0ld
we 2ear t-e a11earan,e o2 min0teness* i2 t-e law ,ommands t-at all t-e
4essels w-i,- a man 1ossesses s-o0ld -a4e a ,ommon meas0re* w-en we
,onsider .enerally t-at t-e di4isions and 4ariations o2 n0mbers -a4e a
0se in res1e,t o2 all t-e 4ariations o2 w-i,- t-ey are s0s,e1tible*
bot- in t-emsel4es and as meas0res o2 -ei.-t and de1t-* and in all
so0nds* and in motions* as well t-ose w-i,- 1ro,eed in a strai.-t
dire,tion* 01wards or downwards* as in t-ose w-i,- .o ro0nd and ro0nd/
#-e le.islator is to ,onsider all t-ese t-in.s and to bid t-e
,iti<ens* as 2ar as 1ossible* not to lose si.-t o2 n0meri,al order)
2or no sin.le instr0ment o2 yo0t-20l ed0,ation -as s0,- mi.-ty
1ower* bot- as re.ards domesti, e,onomy and 1oliti,s* and in t-e arts*
as t-e st0dy o2 arit-meti,/ Abo4e all* arit-meti, stirs 01 -im w-o
is by nat0re slee1y and d0ll* and ma6es -im ;0i,6 to learn* retenti4e*
s-rewd* and aided by art di4ine -e ma6es 1ro.ress ;0ite beyond -is
nat0ral 1owers/ All s0,- t-in.s* i2 only t-e le.islator* by ot-er laws
and instit0tions* ,an banis- meanness and ,o4eto0sness 2rom t-e
so0ls o2 men* so t-at t-ey ,an 0se t-em 1ro1erly and to t-eir own
.ood* will be e:,ellent and s0itable instr0ments o2 ed0,ation/ B0t
i2 -e ,annot* -e will 0nintentionally ,reate in t-em* instead o2
wisdom* t-e -abit o2 ,ra2t* w-i,- e4il tenden,y may be obser4ed in t-e
E.y1tians and P-oeni,ians* and many ot-er ra,es* t-ro0.- t-e .eneral
40l.arity o2 t-eir 10rs0its and a,;0isitions* w-et-er some 0nwort-y
le.islator t-eirs -as been t-e ,a0se* or some im1ediment o2 ,-an,e
or nat0re/ "or we m0st not 2ail to obser4e* O +e.ill0s and Cleinias*
t-at t-ere is a di22eren,e in 1la,es* and t-at some be.et better men
and ot-ers worse) and we m0st le.islate a,,ordin.ly/ Some 1la,es are
s0bje,t to stran.e and 2atal in2l0en,es by reason o2 di4erse winds and
4iolent -eats* some by reason o2 waters) or* a.ain* 2rom t-e ,-ara,ter
o2 t-e 2ood .i4en by t-e eart-* w-i,- not only a22e,ts t-e bodies o2
men 2or .ood or e4il* b0t 1rod0,es similar res0lts in t-eir so0ls/ And
in all s0,- ;0alities t-ose s1ots e:,el in w-i,- t-ere is a di4ine
ins1iration* and in w-i,- t-e demi9.ods -a4e t-eir a11ointed lots* and
are 1ro1itio0s* not ad4erse* to t-e settlers in t-em/ #o all t-ese
matters t-e le.islator* i2 -e -a4e any sense in -im* will attend as
2ar as man ,an* and 2rame -is laws a,,ordin.ly/ And t-is is w-at
yo0* Cleinias* m0st do* and to matters o2 t-is 6ind yo0 m0st t0rn yo0r
mind sin,e yo0 are .oin. to ,oloni<e a new ,o0ntry/
Cleinias/ 7o0r words* At-enian Stran.er* are e:,ellent* and I will
do as yo0 say/
BOOK 8I
At-enian Stran.er/ And now -a4in. made an end o2 t-e 1reliminaries
we will 1ro,eed to t-e a11ointment o2 ma.istra,ies/
Cleinias/ 8ery .ood/
At-/ In t-e orderin. o2 a state t-ere are two 1arts( 2irst* t-e
n0mber o2 t-e ma.istra,ies* and t-e mode o2 establis-in. t-em) and*
se,ondly* w-en t-ey -a4e been establis-ed* laws a.ain will -a4e to
be 1ro4ided 2or ea,- o2 t-em* s0itable in nat0re and n0mber/ B0t
be2ore ele,tin. t-e ma.istrates let 0s sto1 a little and say a word in
season abo0t t-e ele,tion o2 t-em/
Cle/ W-at -a4e yo0 .ot to say3
At-/ #-is is w-at I -a4e to say) e4ery one ,an see* t-at alt-o0.-
t-e wor6 o2 le.islation is a most im1ortant matter* yet i2 a
well9ordered ,ity s01eradd to .ood laws 0ns0itable o22i,es* not only
will t-ere be no 0se in -a4in. t-e .ood laws9not only will t-ey be
ridi,0lo0s and 0seless* b0t t-e .reatest 1oliti,al inj0ry and e4il
will a,,r0e 2rom t-em/
Cle/ O2 ,o0rse/
At-/ #-en now* my 2riend* let 0s obser4e w-at will -a11en in t-e
,onstit0tion o2 o0t intended state/ In t-e 2irst 1la,e* yo0 will
a,6nowled.e t-at t-ose w-o are d0ly a11ointed to ma.isterial 1ower*
and t-eir 2amilies* s-o0ld se4erally -a4e .i4en satis2a,tory 1roo2
o2 w-at t-ey are* 2rom yo0t- 01ward 0ntil t-e time o2 ele,tion) in t-e
ne:t 1la,e* t-ose w-o are to ele,t s-o0ld -a4e been trained in
-abits o2 law* and be well ed0,ated* t-at t-ey may -a4e a ri.-t
j0d.ment* and may be able to sele,t or reje,t men w-om t-ey a11ro4e or
disa11ro4e* as t-ey are wort-y o2 eit-er/ B0t -ow ,an we ima.ine
t-at t-ose w-o are bro0.-t to.et-er 2or t-e 2irst time* and are
stran.ers to one anot-er* and also 0ned0,ated* will a4oid ma6in.
mista6es in t-e ,-oi,e o2 ma.istrates3
Cle/ Im1ossible/
At-/ #-e matter is serio0s* and e:,0ses will not ser4e t-e t0rn/ I
will tell yo0* t-en* w-at yo0 and I will -a4e to do* sin,e yo0* as yo0
tell me* wit- nine ot-ers* -a4e o22ered to settle t-e new state on
be-al2 o2 t-e 1eo1le o2 Crete* and I am to -el1 yo0 by t-e in4ention
o2 t-e 1resent roman,e/ I ,ertainly s-o0ld not li6e to lea4e t-e
tale wanderin. all o4er t-e world wit-o0t a -ead)9a -eadless monster
is s0,- a -ideo0s t-in./
Cle/ E:,ellent* Stran.er/
At-/ 7es) and I will be as .ood as my word/
Cle/ Let 0s by all means do as yo0 1ro1ose/
At-/ #-at we will* by t-e .ra,e o2 &od* i2 old a.e will only
1ermit 0s/
Cle/ B0t &od will be .ra,io0s/
At-/ 7es) and 0nder -is .0idan,e let 0s ,onsider 20rt-er 1oint/
Cle/ W-at is it3
At-/ Let 0s remember w-at a ,o0ra.eo0sly mad and darin. ,reation
t-is o0r ,ity is/
Cle/ W-at -ad yo0 in yo0r mind w-en yo0 said t-at3
At-/ I -ad in my mind t-e 2ree and easy manner in w-i,- we are
ordainin. t-at t-e ine:1erien,ed ,olonists s-all re,ei4e o0r laws/ !ow
a man need not be 4ery wise* Cleinias* in order to see t-at no one ,an
easily re,ei4e laws at t-eir 2irst im1osition/ B0t i2 we ,o0ld
any-ow wait 0ntil t-ose w-o -a4e been imb0ed wit- t-em 2rom ,-ild-ood*
and -a4e been n0rt0red in t-em* and be,ome -abit0ated to t-em* ta6e
t-eir 1art in t-e 10bli, ele,tions o2 t-e state) I say* i2 t-is
,o0ld be a,,om1lis-ed* and ri.-tly a,,om1lis-ed by any way or
,ontri4an,e9t-en* I t-in6 t-at t-ere wo0ld be 4ery little dan.er* at
t-e end o2 t-e time* o2 a state t-0s trained not bein. 1ermanent/
Cle/ A reasonable s011osition/
At-/ #-en let 0s ,onsider i2 we ,an 2ind any way o0t o2 t-e
di22i,0lty) 2or I maintain* Cleinias* t-at t-e Cnosians* abo4e all t-e
ot-er Cretans* s-o0ld not be satis2ied wit- barely dis,-ar.in. t-eir
d0ty to t-e ,olony* b0t t-ey o0.-t to ta6e t-e 0tmost 1ains to
establis- t-e o22i,es w-i,- are 2irst ,reated by t-em in t-e best
and s0rest manner/ Abo4e all* t-is a11lies to t-e sele,tion o2 t-e
.0ardians o2 t-e law* w-o m0st be ,-osen 2irst o2 all* and wit- t-e
.reatest ,are) t-e ot-ers are o2 less im1ortan,e/
Cle/ W-at met-od ,an we de4ise o2 ele,tin. t-em3
At-/ #-is will be t-e met-od(9Sons o2 t-e Cretans* I s-all say to
t-em* inasm0,- as t-e Cnosians -a4e 1re,eden,e o4er t-e ot-er
states* t-ey s-o0ld* in ,ommon wit- t-ose w-o join t-is settlement*
,-oose a body o2 t-irty9se4en in all* nineteen o2 t-em bein. ta6en
2rom t-e settlers* and t-e remainder 2rom t-e ,iti<ens o2 Cnos0s/ O2
t-ose latter t-e Cnosians s-all ma6e a 1resent to yo0r ,olony* and yo0
yo0rsel2 s-all be one o2 t-e ei.-teen* and s-all be,ome a ,iti<en o2
t-e new state) and i2 yo0 and t-ey ,annot be 1ers0aded to .o* t-e
Cnosians may 2airly 0se a little 4iolen,e in order to ma6e yo0/
Cle/ B0t w-y* Stran.er* do not yo0 and +e.ill0s ta6e a 1art in o0r
new ,ity3
At-/ O* Cleinias* At-ens is 1ro0d* and S1arta too) and t-ey are bot-
a lon. way o22/ B0t yo0 and li6ewise t-e ot-er ,olonists are
,on4eniently sit0ated as yo0 des,ribe/ I -a4e been s1ea6in. o2 t-e way
in w-i,- t-e new ,iti<ens may be best mana.ed 0nder 1resent
,ir,0mstan,es) b0t in a2ter9a.es* i2 t-e ,ity ,ontin0es to e:ist*
let t-e ele,tion be on t-is wise/ All w-o are -orse or 2oot
soldiers* or -a4e seen military ser4i,e at t-e 1ro1er a.es w-en t-ey
were se4erally 2itted 2or it* s-all s-are in t-e ele,tion o2
ma.istrates) and t-e ele,tion s-all be -eld in w-ate4er tem1le t-e
state deems most 4enerable* and e4ery one s-all ,arry -is 4ote to
t-e altar o2 t-e &od* writin. down on a tablet t-e name o2 t-e
1erson 2or w-om -e 4otes* and -is 2at-er=s name* and -is tribe* and
ward) and at t-e side -e s-all write -is own name in li6e manner/
Any one w-o 1leases may ta6e away any tablet w-i,- -e does not t-in6
1ro1erly 2illed 01* and e:-ibit it in t-e A.ara 2or a 1eriod o2 not
less t-an t-irty days/ #-e tablets w-i,- are j0d.ed to be 2irst* to
t-e n0mber o2 300* s-all be s-own by t-e ma.istrates to t-e w-ole
,ity* and t-e ,iti<ens s-all in li6e manner sele,t 2rom t-ese t-e
,andidates w-om t-ey 1re2er) and t-is se,ond sele,tion* to t-e
n0mber o2 H00* s-all be a.ain e:-ibited to t-e ,iti<ens) in t-e t-ird*
let any one w-o 1leases sele,t w-om 1leases o0t o2 t-e H00* wal6in.
t-ro0.- t-e 1arts o2 4i,tims* and let t-em ,-oose 2or ma.istrates
and 1ro,laim t-e se4en and t-irty w-o -a4e t-e .reatest n0mber o2
4otes/ B0t w-o* Cleinias and +e.ill0s* will order 2or 0s in t-e ,olony
all t-is matter o2 t-e ma.istrates* and t-e s,r0tinies o2 t-em3 I2
we re2le,t* we s-all see t-at ,ities w-i,- are in 1ro,ess o2
,onstr0,tion li6e o0rs m0st -a4e some s0,- 1ersons* w-o ,annot
1ossibly be ele,ted be2ore t-ere are any ma.istrates) and yet t-ey
m0st be ele,ted in some way* and t-ey are not to be in2erior men*
b0t t-e best 1ossible/ "or as t-e 1ro4erb says* Aa .ood be.innin. is
-al2 t-e b0sinessA) and Ato -a4e be.0n wellA is 1raised by all* and in
my o1inion is a .reat deal more t-an -al2 t-e b0siness* and -as
ne4er been 1raised by any one eno0.-/
Cle/ #-at is 4ery tr0e/
At-/ #-en let 0s re,o.ni<e t-e di22i,0lty* and ma6e ,lear to o0r own
minds -ow t-e be.innin. is to be a,,om1lis-ed/ #-ere is only one
1ro1osal w-i,- I -a4e to o22er* and t-at is one w-i,-* 0nder o0r
,ir,0mstan,es* is bot- ne,essary and e:1edient/
Cle/ W-at is it3
At-/ I maintain t-at t-is ,olony o2 o0rs -as a 2at-er and mot-er*
w-o are no ot-er t-an t-e ,oloni<in. state/ Well I 6now t-at many
,olonies -a4e been* and will be* at enmity wit- t-eir 1arents/ B0t
in early days t-e ,-ild* as in a 2amily* lo4es and is belo4ed) e4en i2
t-ere ,ome a time later w-en t-e tie is bro6en* still* w-ile -e is
in want o2 ed0,ation* -e nat0rally lo4es -is 1arents and is belo4ed by
t-em* and 2lies to -is relati4es 2or 1rote,tion* and 2inds in t-em -is
only nat0ral allies in time o2 need) and t-is 1arental 2eelin. already
e:ists in t-e Cnosians* as is s-own by t-eir ,are o2 t-e new ,ity) and
t-ere is a similar 2eelin. on t-e 1art o2 t-e yo0n. ,ity towards
Cnos0s/ And I re1eat w-at I was sayin.92or t-ere is no -arm in
re1eatin. a .ood t-in.9t-at t-e Cnosians s-o0ld ta6e a ,ommon interest
in all t-ese matters* and ,-oose* as 2ar as t-ey ,an* t-e eldest and
best o2 t-e ,olonists* to t-e n0mber o2 not less t-an a -0ndred) and
let t-ere be anot-er -0ndred o2 t-e Cnosians t-emsel4es/ #-ese* I say*
on t-eir arri4al* s-o0ld -a4e a joint ,are t-at t-e ma.istrates s-o0ld
be a11ointed a,,ordin. to law* and t-at w-en t-ey are a11ointed t-ey
s-o0ld 0nder.o a s,r0tiny/ W-en t-is -as been e22e,ted* t-e Cnosians
s-all ret0rn -ome* and t-e new ,ity do t-e best s-e ,an 2or -er own
1reser4ation and -a11iness/ I wo0ld -a4e t-e se4en9and9t-irty now* and
in all 20t0re time* ,-osen to 20l2il t-e 2ollowin. d0ties(9Let t-em*
in t-e 2irst 1la,e* be t-e .0ardians o2 t-e law) and* se,ondly* o2 t-e
re.isters in w-i,- ea,- one re.isters be2ore t-e ma.istrate t-e amo0nt
o2 -is 1ro1erty* e:,e1tin. 2o0r minae w-i,- are allowed to ,iti<ens o2
t-e 2irst ,lass* t-ree allowed to t-e se,ond* two to t-e t-ird* and
a sin.le mina to t-e 2o0rt-/ And i2 any one* des1isin. t-e laws 2or
t-e sa6e o2 .ain* be 2o0nd to 1ossess anyt-in. more w-i,- -as not been
re.istered* let all t-at -e -as in e:,ess be ,on2is,ated* and let
-im be liable to a s0it w-i,- s-all be t-e re4erse o2 -ono0rable or
2ort0nate/ And let any one w-o will* indi,t -im on t-e ,-ar.e o2
lo4in. base .ains* and 1ro,eed a.ainst -im be2ore t-e .0ardians o2 t-e
law/ And i2 -e be ,ast* let -im lose -is s-are o2 t-e 10bli,
1ossessions* and w-en t-ere is any 10bli, distrib0tion* let -im -a4e
not-in. b0t -is ori.inal lot) and let -im be written down a
,ondemned man as lon. as -e li4es* in some 1la,e in w-i,- any one
w-o 1leases ,an read abo0t -is on,es/ #-e .0ardian o2 t-e law s-all
not -old o22i,e lon.er t-an twenty years* and s-all not be less t-an
2i2ty years o2 a.e w-en -e is ele,ted) or i2 -e is ele,ted w-en -e
is si:ty years o2 a.e* -e s-all -old o22i,e 2or ten years only) and
01on t-e same 1rin,i1le* -e m0st not ima.ine t-at -e will be 1ermitted
to -old s0,- an im1ortant o22i,e as t-at o2 .0ardian o2 t-e laws a2ter
-e is se4enty years o2 a.e* i2 -e li4e so lon./
#-ese are t-e t-ree 2irst ordinan,es abo0t t-e .0ardians o2 t-e law)
as t-e wor6 o2 le.islation 1ro.resses* ea,- law in t0rn will assi.n to
t-em t-eir 20rt-er d0ties/ And now we may 1ro,eed in order to s1ea6 o2
t-e ele,tion o2 ot-er o22i,ers) 2or .enerals -a4e to be ele,ted* and
t-ese a.ain m0st -a4e t-eir ministers* ,ommanders* and ,olonels o2
-orse* and ,ommanders o2 bri.ades o2 2oot* w-o wo0ld be more ri.-tly
,alled by t-eir 1o10lar name o2 bri.adiers/ #-e .0ardians o2 t-e law
s-all 1ro1ose as .enerals men w-o are nati4es o2 t-e ,ity* and a
sele,tion 2rom t-e ,andidates 1ro1osed s-all be made by t-ose w-o
are or -a4e been o2 t-e a.e 2or military ser4i,e/ And i2 one w-o is
not 1ro1osed is t-o0.-t by somebody to be better t-an one w-o is*
let -im name w-om -e 1re2ers in t-e 1la,e o2 w-om* and ma6e oat-
t-at -e is better* and 1ro1ose -im) and w-i,-e4er o2 t-em is
a11ro4ed by 4ote s-all be admitted to t-e 2inal sele,tion) and t-e
t-ree w-o -a4e t-e .reatest n0mber o2 4otes s-all be a11ointed
.enerals* and s01erintendents o2 military a22airs* a2ter 1re4io0sly
0nder.oin. a s,r0tiny* li6e t-e .0ardians o2 t-e law/ And let t-e
.enerals t-0s ele,ted 1ro1ose twel4e bri.adiers* one 2or ea,- tribe)
and t-ere s-all be a ri.-t o2 ,o0nter1ro1osal as in t-e ,ase o2 t-e
.enerals* and t-e 4otin. and de,ision s-all ta6e 1la,e in t-e same
way/ 'ntil t-e 1rytanes and ,o0n,il are ele,ted* t-e .0ardians o2
t-e law s-all ,on4ene t-e assembly in some -oly s1ot w-i,- is s0itable
to t-e 10r1ose* 1la,in. t-e -o1lites by t-emsel4es* and t-e ,a4alry by
t-emsel4es* and in a t-ird di4ision all t-e rest o2 t-e army/ All
are to 4ote 2or t-e .enerals Band 2or t-e ,olonels o2 -orseC* b0t
t-e bri.adiers are to be 4oted 2or only by t-ose w-o ,arry s-ields
Bi/e/ t-e -o1litesC/ Let t-e body o2 ,a4alry ,-oose 1-ylar,-s 2or
t-e .enerals) b0t ,a1tains o2 li.-t troo1s* or ar,-ers* or any ot-er
di4ision o2 t-e army* s-all be a11ointed by t-e .enerals 2or
t-emsel4es/ #-ere only remains t-e a11ointment o2 o22i,ers o2 ,a4alry(
t-ese s-all be 1ro1osed by t-e same 1ersons w-o 1ro1osed t-e .enerals*
and t-e ele,tion and t-e ,o0nter91ro1osal o2 ot-er ,andidates s-all be
arran.ed in t-e same way as in t-e ,ase o2 t-e .enerals* and let t-e
,a4alry 4ote and t-e in2antry loo6 on at t-e ele,tion) t-e two w-o
-a4e t-e .reatest n0mber o2 4otes s-all be t-e leaders o2 all t-e
-orse/ %is10tes abo0t t-e 4otin. may be raised on,e or twi,e) b0t i2
t-e dis10te be raised a t-ird time* t-e o22i,ers w-o 1reside at t-e
se4eral ele,tions s-all de,ide/
#-e ,o0n,il s-all ,onsist o2 30 : HI members9360 will be a
,on4enient n0mber 2or s0b9di4ision/ I2 we di4ide t-e w-ole n0mber into
2o0r 1arts o2 ninety ea,-* we .et ninety ,o0nsellors 2or ea,- ,lass/
"irst* all t-e ,iti<ens s-all sele,t ,andidates 2rom t-e 2irst
,lass) t-ey s-all be ,om1elled to 4ote* and* i2 t-ey do not* s-all
be d0ly 2ined/ W-en t-e ,andidates -a4e been sele,ted* some one
s-all mar6 t-em down) t-is s-all be t-e b0siness o2 t-e 2irst day/ And
on t-e 2ollowin. day* ,andidates s-all be sele,ted 2rom t-e se,ond
,lass in t-e same manner and 0nder t-e same ,onditions as on t-e
1re4io0s day) and on t-e t-ird day a sele,tion s-all be made 2rom
t-e t-ird ,lass* at w-i,- e4ery one may* i2 -e li6es* 4ote* and t-e
t-ree 2irst ,lasses s-all be ,om1elled to 4ote) b0t t-e 2o0rt- and
lowest ,lass s-all be 0nder no ,om10lsion* and any member o2 t-is
,lass w-o does not 4ote s-all not be 10nis-ed/ On t-e 2o0rt- day
,andidates s-all be sele,ted 2rom t-e 2o0rt- and smallest ,lass)
t-ey s-all be sele,ted by all* b0t -e w-o is o2 t-e 2o0rt- ,lass s-all
s022er no 1enalty* nor -e w-o is o2 t-e t-ird* i2 -e be not willin. to
4ote) b0t -e w-o is o2 t-e 2irst or se,ond ,lass* i2 -e does not
4ote s-all be 10nis-ed)9-e w-o is o2 t-e se,ond ,lass s-all 1ay a 2ine
o2 tri1le t-e amo0nt w-i,- was e:a,ted at 2irst* and -e w-o is o2
t-e 2irst ,lass ;0adr01le/ On t-e 2i2t- day t-e r0lers s-all brin. o0t
t-e names noted down* 2or all t-e ,iti<ens to see* and e4ery man s-all
,-oose o0t o2 t-em* 0nder 1ain* i2 -e do not* o2 s022erin. t-e 2irst
1enalty) and w-en t-ey -a4e ,-osen o0t o2 ea,- o2 t-e ,lasses* t-ey
s-all ,-oose one9-al2 o2 t-em by lot* w-o s-all 0nder.o a
s,r0tiny(9#-ese are to 2orm t-e ,o0n,il 2or t-e year/
#-e mode o2 ele,tion w-i,- -as been des,ribed is in a mean between
monar,-y and demo,ra,y* and s0,- a mean t-e state o0.-t always to
obser4e) 2or ser4ants and masters ne4er ,an be 2riends* nor .ood and
bad* merely be,a0se t-ey are de,lared to -a4e e;0al 1ri4ile.es/ "or to
0ne;0als e;0als be,ome 0ne;0al* i2 t-ey are not -armoni<ed by meas0re)
and bot- by reason o2 e;0ality* and by reason o2 ine;0ality* ,ities
are 2illed wit- seditions/ #-e old sayin.* t-at Ae;0ality ma6es
2riends-i1*A is -a11y and also tr0e) b0t t-ere is obs,0rity and
,on20sion as to w-at sort o2 e;0ality is meant/ "or t-ere are two
e;0alities w-i,- are ,alled by t-e same name* b0t are in reality in
many ways almost t-e o11osite o2 one anot-er) one o2 t-em may be
introd0,ed wit-o0t di22i,0lty* by any state or any le.islator in t-e
distrib0tion o2 -ono0rs( t-is is t-e r0le o2 meas0re* wei.-t* and
n0mber* w-i,- re.0lates and a11ortions t-em/ B0t t-ere is anot-er
e;0ality* o2 a better and -i.-er 6ind* w-i,- is not so easily
re,o.ni<ed/ #-is is t-e j0d.ment o2 5e0s) amon. men it a4ails b0t
little) t-at little* -owe4er* is t-e so0r,e o2 t-e .reatest .ood to
indi4id0als and states/ "or it .i4es to t-e .reater more* and to t-e
in2erior less and in 1ro1ortion to t-e nat0re o2 ea,-) and* abo4e all*
.reater -ono0r always to t-e .reater 4irt0e* and to t-e less less) and
to eit-er in 1ro1ortion to t-eir res1e,ti4e meas0re o2 4irt0e and
ed0,ation/ And t-is is j0sti,e* and is e4er t-e tr0e 1rin,i1le o2
states* at w-i,- we o0.-t to aim* and a,,ordin. to t-is r0le order t-e
new ,ity w-i,- is now bein. 2o0nded* and any ot-er ,ity w-i,- may be
-erea2ter 2o0nded/ #o t-is t-e le.islator s-o0ld loo69not to t-e
interests o2 tyrants one or more* or to t-e 1ower o2 t-e 1eo1le* b0t
to j0sti,e always) w-i,-* as I was sayin.* t-e distrib0tion o2 nat0ral
e;0ality amon. 0ne;0als in ea,- ,ase/ B0t t-ere are times at w-i,-
e4ery state is ,om1elled to 0se t-e words* Aj0st*A Ae;0al*A in a
se,ondary sense* in t-e -o1e o2 es,a1in. in some de.ree 2rom 2a,tions/
"or e;0ity and ind0l.en,e are in2ra,tions o2 t-e 1er2e,t and stri,t
r0le o2 j0sti,e/ And t-is is t-e reason w-y we are obli.ed to 0se
t-e e;0ality o2 t-e lot* in order to a4oid t-e dis,ontent o2 t-e
1eo1le) and so we in4o6e &od and 2ort0ne in o0r 1rayers* and be.
t-at t-ey t-emsel4es will dire,t t-e lot wit- a 4iew to s01reme
j0sti,e/ And t-ere2ore* alt-o0.- we are ,om1elled to 0se bot-
e;0alities* we s-o0ld 0se t-at into w-i,- t-e element o2 ,-an,e enters
as seldom as 1ossible/
#-0s* O my 2riends* and 2or t-e reasons .i4en* s-o0ld a state a,t
w-i,- wo0ld end0re and be sa4ed/ B0t as a s-i1 sailin. on t-e sea
-as to be wat,-ed ni.-t and day* in li6e manner a ,ity also is sailin.
on a sea o2 1oliti,s* and is liable to all sorts o2 insidio0s
assa0lts) and t-ere2ore 2rom mornin. to ni.-t* and 2rom ni.-t to
mornin.* r0lers m0st join -ands wit- r0lers* and wat,-ers wit-
wat,-ers* re,ei4in. and .i4in. 01 t-eir tr0st in a 1er1et0al
s0,,ession/ !ow a m0ltit0de ,an ne4er 20l2il a d0ty o2 t-is sort
wit- anyt-in. li6e ener.y/ +oreo4er* t-e .reater n0mber o2 t-e
senators will -a4e to be le2t d0rin. t-e .reater 1art o2 t-e year to
order t-eir ,on,erns at t-eir own -omes/ #-ey will t-ere2ore -a4e to
be arran.ed in twel4e 1ortions* answerin. to t-e twel4e mont-s* and
20rnis- .0ardians o2 t-e state* ea,- 1ortion 2or a sin.le mont-/ #-eir
b0siness is to be at -and and re,ei4e any 2orei.ner or ,iti<en w-o
,omes to t-em* w-et-er to .i4e in2ormation* or to 10t one o2 t-ose
;0estions* to w-i,-* w-en as6ed by ot-er ,ities* a ,ity s-o0ld .i4e an
answer* and to w-i,-* i2 s-e as6 t-em -ersel2* s-e s-o0ld re,ei4e an
answer) or a.ain* w-en t-ere is a li6eli-ood o2 internal ,ommotions*
w-i,- are always liable to -a11en in some 2orm or ot-er* t-ey will* i2
t-ey ,an* 1re4ent t-eir o,,0rrin.) or i2 t-ey -a4e already o,,0rred*
will lose time in ma6in. t-em 6nown to t-e ,ity* and -ealin. t-e e4il/
W-ere2ore* also* t-is w-i,- is t-e 1residin. body o2 t-e state o0.-t
always to -a4e t-e ,ontrol o2 t-eir assemblies* and o2 t-e
dissol0tions o2 t-em* ordinary as well as e:traordinary/ All t-is is
to be ordered by t-e twel2t- 1art o2 t-e ,o0n,il* w-i,- is always to
6ee1 wat,- to.et-er wit- t-e ot-er o22i,ers o2 t-e state d0rin. one
1ortion o2 t-e year* and to rest d0rin. t-e remainin. ele4en 1ortions/
#-0s will t-e ,ity be 2airly ordered/ And now* w-o is to -a4e* t-e
s01erintenden,e o2 t-e ,o0ntry* and w-at s-all be t-e arran.ement3
Seein. t-at t-e w-ole ,ity and t-e entire ,o0ntry -a4e been bot- o2
t-em di4ided into twel4e 1ortions* o0.-t t-ere not to be a11ointed
s01erintendents o2 t-e streets o2 t-e ,ity* and o2 t-e -o0ses* and
b0ildin.s* and -arbo0rs* and t-e a.ora* and 2o0ntains* and sa,red
domains* and tem1les* and t-e li6e3
Cle/ #o be s0re t-ere o0.-t/
At-/ Let 0s ass0me* t-en* t-at t-ere o0.-t to be ser4ants o2 t-e
tem1les* and 1riests and 1riestesses/ #-ere m0st also be
s01erintendents o2 roads and b0ddin.s* w-o will -a4e a ,are o2 men*
t-at t-ey may do no -arm* and also o2 beasts* bot- wit-in t-e
en,los0re and in t-e s0b0rbs/ #-ree 6inds o2 o22i,ers will t-0s -a4e
to be a11ointed* in order t-at t-e ,ity may be s0itably 1ro4ided
a,,ordin. to -er needs/ #-ose w-o -a4e t-e ,are o2 t-e ,ity s-all be
,alled wardens o2 t-e ,ity) and t-ose w-o -a4e t-e ,are o2 t-e a.ora
s-all be ,alled wardens o2 t-e a.ora) and t-ose w-o -a4e t-e ,are o2
t-e tem1les s-all be ,alled 1riests/ #-ose w-o -old -ereditary o22i,es
as 1riests or 1riestesses* s-all not be dist0rbed) b0t i2 t-ere be 2ew
or none s0,-* as is 1robable at t-e 2o0ndation o2 a new ,ity*
1riests and 1riestesses s-all be a11ointed to be ser4ants o2 t-e
&ods w-o -a4e no ser4ants/ Some o2 o0r o22i,ers s-all be ele,ted*
and ot-ers a11ointed by lot* t-ose w-o are o2 t-e 1eo1le and t-ose w-o
are not o2 t-e 1eo1le min.lin. in a 2riendly manner in e4ery 1la,e and
,ity* t-at t-e state may be as 2ar as 1ossible o2 one mind/ #-e
o22i,ers o2 t-e tem1les s-all be a11ointed by lot) in t-is way t-eir
ele,tion will be ,ommitted to &od* t-at -e may do w-at is a.reeable to
-im/ And -e w-o obtains a lot s-all 0nder.o a s,r0tiny* 2irst* as to
w-et-er -e is so0nd o2 body and o2 le.itimate birt-) and in t-e se,ond
1la,e* in order to s-ow t-at -e is o2 a 1er2e,tly 10re 2amily* not
stained wit- -omi,ide or any similar im1iety in -is own 1erson* and
also t-at -is 2at-er and mot-er -a4e led a similar 0nstained li2e/ !ow
t-e laws abo0t all di4ine t-in.s s-o0ld be bro0.-t 2rom %el1-i* and
inter1reters a11ointed* 0nder w-ose dire,tion t-ey s-o0ld be 0sed/ #-e
ten0re o2 t-e 1riest-ood s-o0ld always be 2or a year and no lon.er)
and -e w-o will d0ly e:e,0te t-e sa,red o22i,e* a,,ordin. to t-e
laws o2 reli.ion* m0st be not less t-an si:ty years o2 a.e9t-e laws
s-all be t-e same abo0t 1riestesses/ As 2or t-e inter1reters* t-ey
s-all be a11ointed t-0s(9Let t-e twel4e tribes be distrib0ted into
.ro01s o2 2o0r* and let ea,- .ro01 sele,t 2o0r* one o0t o2 ea,-
tribe wit-in t-e .ro01* t-ree times) and let t-e t-ree w-o -a4e t-e
.reatest n0mber o2 4otes Bo0t o2 t-e twel4e a11ointed by ea,-
.ro01C* a2ter 0nder.oin. a s,r0tiny* nine in all* be sent to %el1-i*
in order t-at t-e &od may ret0rn one o0t o2 ea,- triad) t-eir a.e
s-all be t-e same as t-at o2 t-e 1riests* and t-e s,r0tiny o2 t-em
s-all be ,ond0,ted in t-e same manner) let t-em be inter1reters 2or
li2e* and w-en any one dies let t-e 2o0r tribes sele,t anot-er 2rom
t-e tribe o2 t-e de,eased/ +oreo4er* besides 1riests and inter1reters*
t-ere m0st be treas0rers* w-o will ta6e ,-ar.e o2 t-e 1ro1erty o2
t-e se4eral tem1les* and o2 t-e sa,red domains* and s-all -a4e
a0t-ority o4er t-e 1rod0,e and t-e lettin. o2 t-em) and t-ree o2
t-em s-all be ,-osen 2rom t-e -i.-est ,lasses 2or t-e .reater tem1les*
and two 2or t-e lesser* and one 2or t-e least o2 all) t-e manner o2
t-eir ele,tion and t-e s,r0tiny o2 t-em s-all be t-e same as t-at o2
t-e .enerals/ #-is s-all be t-e order o2 t-e tem1les/
Let e4eryt-in. -a4e a .0ard as 2ar as 1ossible/ Let t-e de2en,e o2
t-e ,ity be ,ommited to t-e .enerals* and ta:iar,-s* and -i11ar,-s*
and 1-ylar,-s* and 1rytanes* and t-e wardens o2 t-e ,ity* and o2 t-e
a.ora* w-en t-e ele,tion o2 t-em -as been ,om1leted/ #-e de2en,e o2
t-e ,o0ntry s-all be 1ro4ided 2or as 2ollows(9#-e entire land -as been
already distrib0ted into twel4e as nearly as 1ossible e;0al 1arts* and
let t-e tribe allotted to a di4ision 1ro4ide ann0ally 2or it 2i4e
wardens o2 t-e ,o0ntry and ,ommanders o2 t-e wat,-) and let ea,-
body o2 2i4e -a4e t-e 1ower o2 sele,tin. twel4e ot-ers o0t o2 t-e
yo0t- o2 t-eir own tribe9t-ese s-all be not less t-an twenty92i4e
years o2 a.e* and not more t-an t-irty/ And let t-ere be allotted to
t-em se4erally e4ery mont- t-e 4ario0s distri,ts* in order t-at t-ey
may all a,;0ire 6nowled.e and e:1erien,e o2 t-e w-ole ,o0ntry/ #-e
term o2 ser4i,e 2or ,ommanders and 2or wat,-ers s-all ,ontin0e
d0rin. two years/ A2ter -a4in. -ad t-eir stations allotted to t-em*
t-ey will .o 2rom 1la,e to 1la,e in re.0lar order* ma6in. t-eir
ro0nd 2rom le2t to ri.-t as t-eir ,ommanders dire,t t-em) >w-en I
s1ea6 o2 .oin. to t-e ri.-t* I mean t-at t-ey are to .o to t-e
east?/ And at t-e ,ommen,ement o2 t-e se,ond year* in order t-at as
many as 1ossible o2 t-e .0ards may not only .et a 6nowled.e o2 t-e
,o0ntry at any one season o2 t-e year* b0t may also -a4e e:1erien,e o2
t-e manner in w-i,- di22erent 1la,es are a22e,ted at di22erent seasons
o2 t-e year* t-eir t-en ,ommanders s-all lead t-em a.ain towards t-e
le2t* 2rom 1la,e to 1la,e in s0,,ession* 0ntil t-ey -a4e ,om1leted t-e
se,ond year/ In t-e t-ird year ot-er wardens o2 t-e ,o0ntry s-all be
,-osen and ,ommanders o2 t-e wat,-* 2i4e 2or ea,- di4ision* w-o are to
be t-e s01erintendents o2 t-e bands o2 twel4e/ W-ile on ser4i,e at
ea,- station* t-eir attention s-all be dire,ted to t-e 2ollowin.
1oints(9In t-e 2irst 1la,e* t-ey s-all see t-at t-e ,o0ntry is well
1rote,ted a.ainst enemies) t-ey s-all tren,- and di. w-ere4er t-is
is re;0ired* and* as 2ar as t-ey ,an* t-ey s-all by 2orti2i,ations
6ee1 o22 t-e e4il9dis1osed* in order to 1re4ent t-em 2rom doin. any
-arm to t-e ,o0ntry or t-e 1ro1erty) t-ey s-all 0se t-e beasts o2
b0rden and t-e labo0rers w-om t-ey 2ind on t-e s1ot( t-ese will be
t-eir instr0ments w-om t-ey will s01erintend* ta6in. t-em* as 2ar as
1ossible* at t-e times w-en t-ey are not en.a.ed in t-eir re.0lar
b0siness/ #-ey s-all ma6e e4ery 1art o2 t-e ,o0ntry ina,,essible to
enemies* and as a,,essible as 1ossible to 2riends) t-ere s-all be ways
2or man and beasts o2 b0rden and 2or ,attle* and t-ey s-all ta6e
,are to -a4e t-em always as smoot- as t-ey ,an) and s-all 1ro4ide
a.ainst t-e rains doin. -arm instead o2 .ood to t-e land* w-en t-ey
,ome down 2rom t-e mo0ntains into t-e -ollow dells) and s-all 6ee1
in t-e o4er2low by t-e -el1 o2 wor6s and dit,-es* in order t-at t-e
4alleys* re,ei4in. and drin6in. 01 t-e rain 2rom -ea4en* and 1ro4idin.
2o0ntains and streams in t-e 2ields and re.ions w-i,- lie
0nderneat-* may 20rnis- e4en to t-e dry 1la,es 1lenty o2 .ood water/
#-e 2o0ntains o2 water* w-et-er o2 ri4ers or o2 s1rin.s* s-all be
ornamented wit- 1lantations and b0ildin.s 2or bea0ty) and let t-em
brin. to.et-er t-e streams in s0bterraneo0s ,-annels* and ma6e all
t-in.s 1lenteo0s) and i2 t-ere be a sa,red .ro4e or dedi,ated 1re,in,t
in t-e nei.-bo0r-ood* t-ey s-all ,ond0,t t-e water to t-e a,t0al
tem1les o2 t-e &ods* and so bea0ti2y t-em at all seasons o2 t-e
year/ E4eryw-ere in s0,- 1la,es t-e yo0t- s-all ma6e .ymnasia 2or
t-emsel4es* and warm bat-s 2or t-e a.ed* 1la,in. by t-em ab0ndan,e
o2 dry wood* 2or t-e bene2it o2 t-ose labo0rin. 0nder disease9t-ere
t-e weary 2rame o2 t-e r0sti,* worn wit- toil* will re,ei4e a 6indly
wel,ome* 2ar better t-an -e wo0ld at t-e -ands o2 a not o4er9wise
do,tor/
#-e b0ildin. o2 t-ese and t-e li6e wor6s will be 0se20l and
ornamental) t-ey will 1ro4ide a 1leasin. am0sement* b0t t-ey will be a
serio0s em1loyment too) 2or t-e si:ty wardens will -a4e to .0ard t-eir
se4eral di4isions* not only wit- a 4iew to enemies* b0t also wit- an
eye to 1ro2essin. 2riends/ W-en a ;0arrel arises amon. nei.-bo0rs or
,iti<ens* and any one* w-et-er sla4e or 2reeman wron.s anot-er* let
t-e 2i4e wardens de,ide small matters on t-eir own a0t-ority) b0t
w-ere t-e ,-ar.e a.ainst anot-er relates to .reater matters* t-e
se4enteen ,om1osed o2 t-e 2i4es and twel4es* s-all determine any
,-ar.es w-i,- one man brin.s a.ainst anot-er* not in4ol4in. more
t-an t-ree minae/ E4ery j0d.e and ma.istrate s-all be liable to .i4e
an a,,o0nt o2 -is ,ond0,t in o22i,e* e:,e1t t-ose w-o* li6e 6in.s*
-a4e t-e 2inal de,ision/ +oreo4er* as re.ards t-e a2oresaid wardens o2
t-e ,o0ntry* i2 t-ey do any wron. to t-ose o2 w-om t-ey -a4e t-e ,are*
w-et-er by im1osin. 01on t-em 0ne;0al tas6s* or by ta6in. t-e
1rod0,e o2 t-e soil or im1lements o2 -0sbandry wit-o0t t-eir
,onsent) also i2 t-ey re,ei4e anyt-in. in t-e way o2 a bribe* or
de,ide s0its 0nj0stly* or i2 t-ey yield to t-e in2l0en,es o2 2lattery*
let t-em be 10bli,ly dis-ono0red) and in re.ard to any ot-er wron.
w-i,- t-ey do to t-e in-abitants o2 t-e ,o0ntry* i2 t-e ;0estion be o2
a mina* let t-em s0bmit to t-e de,ision o2 t-e 4illa.ers in t-e
nei.-bo0r-ood) b0t in s0its o2 .reater amo0nt* or in ,ase o2 lesser*
i2 t-ey re20se to s0bmit* tr0stin. t-at t-eir mont-ly remo4al into
anot-er 1art o2 t-e ,o0ntry will enable t-em to es,a1e9in s0,- ,ases
t-e inj0red 1arty may brin. -is s0it in t-e ,ommon ,o0rt* and i2 -e
obtain a 4erdi,t -e may e:a,t 2rom t-e de2endant* w-o re20sed to
s0bmit* a do0ble 1enalty/
#-e wardens and t-e o4erseers o2 t-e ,o0ntry* w-ile on t-eir two
years ser4i,e* s-all -a4e ,ommon meals at t-eir se4eral stations*
and s-all all li4e to.et-er) and -e w-o is absent 2rom t-e ,ommon
meal* or slee1s o0t* i2 only 2or one day or ni.-t* 0nless by order
o2 -is ,ommanders* or by reason o2 absol0te ne,essity* i2 t-e 2i4e
deno0n,e -im and ins,ribe -is name t-e a.ora as not -a4in. 6e1t -is
.0ard* let -im be deemed to -a4e betrayed t-e ,ity* as 2ar as lay in
-is 1ower* and let -im be dis.ra,ed and beaten wit- im10nity by any
one w-o meets -im and is willin. to 10nis- -im/ I2 any o2 t-e
,ommanders is .0ilty o2 s0,- an irre.0larity* t-e w-ole ,om1any o2
si:ty s-all see to it* and -e w-o is ,o.ni<ant o2 t-e o22en,e* and
does not brin. t-e o22ender to trial* s-all be amenable to t-e same
laws as t-e yo0n.er o22ender -imsel2* and s-all 1ay a -ea4ier 2ine*
and be in,a1able o2 e4er ,ommandin. t-e yo0n./ #-e .0ardians o2 t-e
law are to be ,are20l ins1e,tors o2 t-ese matters* and s-all eit-er
1re4ent or 10nis- o22enders/ E4ery man s-o0ld remember t-e 0ni4ersal
r0le* t-at -e w-o is not a .ood ser4ant will not be a .ood master) a
man s-o0ld 1ride -imsel2 more 01on ser4in. well t-an 01on ,ommandin.
well( 2irst 01on ser4in. t-e laws* w-i,- is also t-e ser4i,e o2 t-e
&ods) in t-e se,ond 1la,e* 01on -a4in./ ser4ed an,ient and
-ono0rable men in t-e days o2 -is yo0t-/ "0rt-ermore* d0rin. t-e two
years in w-i,- any one is a warden o2 t-e ,o0ntry* -is daily 2ood
o0.-t to be o2 a sim1le and -0mble 6ind/ W-en t-e twel4e -a4e been
,-osen* let t-em and t-e 2i4e meet to.et-er* and determine t-at t-ey
will be t-eir own ser4ants* and* li6e ser4ants* will not -a4e ot-er
sla4es and ser4ants 2or t-eir own 0se* neit-er will t-ey 0se t-ose
o2 t-e 4illa.ers and -0sbandmen 2or t-eir 1ri4ate ad4anta.e* b0t 2or
t-e 10bli, ser4i,e only) and in .eneral t-ey s-o0ld ma6e 01 t-eir
minds to li4e inde1endently by t-emsel4es* ser4ants o2 ea,- ot-er
and o2 t-emsel4es/ "0rt-er* at all seasons o2 t-e year* s0mmer and
winter ali6e* let t-em be 0nder arms and s0r4ey min0tely t-e w-ole
,o0ntry) t-0s t-ey will at on,e 6ee1 .0ard* and at t-e same time
a,;0ire a 1er2e,t 6nowled.e o2 e4ery lo,ality/ #-ere ,an be no more
im1ortant 6ind o2 in2ormation t-an t-e e:a,t 6nowled.e o2 a man=s
own ,o0ntry) and 2or t-is as well as 2or more .eneral reasons o2
1leas0re and ad4anta.e* -0ntin. wit- do.s and ot-er 6inds o2 s1orts
s-o0ld be 10rs0ed by t-e yo0n./ #-e ser4i,e to w-om t-is is
,ommitted may be ,alled t-e se,ret 1oli,e* or wardens o2 t-e
,o0ntry) t-e name does not m0,- si.ni2y* b0t e4ery one w-o -as t-e
sa2ety o2 t-e state at -eart will 0se -is 0tmost dili.en,e in t-is
ser4i,e/
A2ter t-e wardens o2 t-e ,o0ntry* we -a4e to s1ea6 o2 t-e ele,tion
o2 wardens o2 t-e a.ora and o2 t-e ,ity/ #-e wardens o2 t-e ,o0ntry
were si:ty in n0mber* and t-e wardens o2 t-e ,ity will be t-ree* and
will di4ide t-e twel4e 1arts o2 t-e ,ity into t-ree) li6e t-e
2ormer* t-ey s-all -a4e ,are o2 t-e ways* and o2 t-e di22erent -i.-
roads w-i,- lead o0t o2 t-e ,o0ntry into t-e ,ity* and o2 t-e
b0ildin.s* t-at t-ey may be all made a,,ordin. to law)9also o2 t-e
waters* w-i,- t-e .0ardians o2 t-e s011ly 1reser4e and ,on4ey to t-em*
,are bein. ta6en t-at t-ey may rea,- t-e 2o0ntains 10re and
ab0ndant* and be bot- an ornament and a bene2it to t-e ,ity/ #-ese
also s-o0ld be men o2 in2l0en,e* and at leis0re to ta6e ,are o2 t-e
10bli, interest/ Let e4ery man 1ro1ose as warden o2 t-e ,ity any one
w-om -e li6es o0t o2 t-e -i.-est ,lass* and w-en t-e 4ote -as been
.i4en on t-em* and t-e n0mber is red0,ed to t-e si: w-o -a4e t-e
.reatest n0mber o2 4otes* let t-e ele,tin. o22i,ers ,-oose by lot
t-ree o0t o2 t-e si:* and w-en t-ey -a4e 0nder.one a s,r0tiny let t-em
-old o22i,e a,,ordin. to t-e laws laid down 2or t-em/ !e:t* let t-e
wardens o2 t-e a.ora be ele,ted in li6e manner* o0t o2 t-e 2irst and
se,ond ,lass* 2i4e in n0mber( ten are to be 2irst ele,ted* and o0t
o2 t-e ten 2i4e are to be ,-osen by lot* as in t-e ele,tion o2 t-e
wardens o2 t-e ,ity(9t-ese w-en t-ey -a4e 0nder.one a s,r0tiny are
to be de,lared ma.istrates/ E4ery one s-all 4ote 2or e4ery one* and -e
w-o will not 4ote* i2 -e be in2ormed a.ainst be2ore t-e ma.istrates*
s-all be 2ined 2i2ty dra,-mae* and s-all also be deemed a bad ,iti<en/
Let any one w-o li6es .o to t-e assembly and to t-e .eneral ,o0n,il)
it s-all be ,om10lsory to .o on ,iti<ens o2 t-e 2irst and se,ond
,lass* and t-ey s-all 1ay a 2ine o2 ten dra,-mae i2 t-ey be 2o0nd
not answerin. to t-eir names at t-e assembly/ t-e t-ird and 2o0rt-
,lass s-all be 0nder no ,om10lsion* and s-all be let o22 wit-o0t a
2ine* 0nless t-e ma.istrates -a4e ,ommanded all to be 1resent* in
,onse;0en,e o2 some 0r.ent ne,essity/ #-e wardens o2 t-e a.ora s-all
obser4e t-e order a11ointed by law 2or t-e a.ora* and s-all -a4e t-e
,-ar.e o2 t-e tem1les and 2o0ntains w-i,- are in t-e a.ora) and t-ey
s-all see t-at no one inj0res anyt-in.* and 10nis- -im w-o does*
wit- stri1es and bonds* i2 -e be a sla4e or stran.er) b0t i2 -e be a
,iti<en w-o misbe-a4es in t-is way* t-ey s-all -a4e t-e 1ower
t-emsel4es o2 in2li,tin. a 2ine 01on -im to t-e amo0nt o2 a -0ndred
dra,-mae* or wit- t-e ,onsent o2 t-e wardens o2 t-e ,ity 01 to
do0ble t-at amo0nt/ And let t-e wardens o2 t-e ,ity -a4e a similar
1ower o2 im1osin. 10nis-ments and 2ines in t-eir own de1artment) and
let t-em im1ose 2ines by t-eir own de1artment) and let t-em im1ose
2ines by t-eir own a0t-ority* 01 to a mina* or 01 to two minae wit-
t-e ,onsent o2 t-e wardens o2 t-e a.ora/
In t-e ne:t 1la,e* it will be 1ro1er to a11oint dire,tors o2 m0si,
and .ymnasti,* two 6inds o2 ea,-9o2 t-e one 6ind t-e b0siness will
be ed0,ation* o2 t-e ot-er* t-e s01erintenden,e o2 ,ontests/ In
s1ea6in. o2 ed0,ation* t-e law means to s1ea6 o2 t-ose w-o -a4e t-e
,are o2 order and instr0,tion in .ymnasia and s,-ools* and o2 t-e
.oin. to s,-ool* and o2 s,-ool b0ildin.s 2or boys and .irls) and in
s1ea6in. o2 ,ontests* t-e law re2ers to t-e j0d.es o2 .ymnasti,s and
o2 m0si,) t-ese a.ain are di4ided into two ,lasses* t-e one -a4in.
to do wit- m0si,* t-e ot-er wit- .ymnasti,s) and t-e same w-o j0d.e o2
t-e .ymnasti, ,ontests o2 men* s-all j0d.e o2 -orses) b0t in m0si,
t-ere s-all be one set o2 j0d.es o2 solo sin.in.* and o2 imitation9I
mean o2 r-a1sodists* 1layers on t-e -ar1* t-e 2l0te and t-e li6e*
and anot-er w-o s-all j0d.e o2 ,-oral son./ "irst o2 all* we m0st
,-oose dire,tors 2or t-e ,-or0ses o2 boys* and men* and maidens*
w-om t-ey s-all 2ollow in t-e am0sement o2 t-e dan,e* and 2or o0r
ot-er m0si,al arran.ements) 9one dire,tor will be eno0.- 2or t-e
,-or0ses* and -e s-o0ld be not less t-an 2orty years o2 a.e/ One
dire,tor will also be eno0.- to introd0,e t-e solo sin.ers* and to
.i4e j0d.ment on t-e ,om1etitors* and -e o0.-t not to be less t-an
t-irty years o2 a.e/ #-e dire,tor and mana.er o2 t-e ,-or0ses s-all be
ele,ted a2ter t-e 2ollowin. manner(9Let any 1ersons w-o ,ommonly
ta6e an interest in s0,- matters .o to t-e meetin.* and be 2ined i2
t-ey do not .o >t-e .0ardians o2 t-e law s-all j0d.e o2 t-eir
2a0lt?* b0t t-ose w-o -a4e no interest s-all not be ,om1elled/ #-e
ele,tor s-all 1ro1ose as dire,tor some one w-o 0nderstands m0si,*
and -e in t-e s,r0tiny may be ,-allen.ed on t-e one 1art by t-ose
w-o say -e -as no s6ill* and de2ended on t-e ot-er -and by t-ose w-o
say t-at -e -as/ #en are to be ele,ted by 4ote* and -e o2 t-e ten
w-o is ,-osen by lot s-all 0nder.o a s,r0tiny* and lead t-e ,-or0ses
2or a year a,,ordin. to law/ And in li6e manner t-e ,om1etitor w-o
wins t-e lot s-all be leader o2 t-e solo and ,on,ert m0si, 2or t-at
year) and -e w-o is t-0s ele,ted s-all deli4er t-e award to t-e
j0d.es/ In t-e ne:t 1la,e* we -a4e to ,-oose j0d.es in t-e ,ontests o2
-orses and o2 men) t-ese s-all be sele,ted 2rom t-e t-ird and also
2rom t-e se,ond ,lass o2 ,iti<ens* and t-ree 2irst ,lasses s-all be
,om1elled to .o to t-e ele,tion* b0t t-e lowest may stay away wit-
im10nity) and let t-ere be t-ree ele,ted by lot o0t o2 t-e twenty
w-o -a4e been ,-osen 1re4io0sly* and t-ey m0st also -a4e t-e 4ote
and a11ro4al o2 t-e e:aminers/ B0t i2 any one is reje,ted in t-e
s,r0tiny at any ballot or de,ision* ot-ers s-all be ,-osen in t-e same
manner* and 0nder.o a similar s,r0tiny/
#-ere remains t-e minister o2 t-e ed0,ation o2 yo0t-* male and
2emale) -e too will r0le a,,ordin. to law) one s0,- minister will be
s022i,ient* and -e m0st be 2i2ty years old* and -a4e ,-ildren law20lly
be.otten* bot- boys and .irls by 1re2eren,e* at any rate* one or t-e
ot-er/ $e w-o is ele,ted* and -e w-o is t-e ele,tor* s-o0ld ,onsider
t-at o2 all t-e .reat o22i,es o2 state* t-is is t-e .reatest) 2or
t-e 2irst s-oot o2 any 1lant* i2 it ma6es a .ood start towards t-e
attainment o2 its nat0ral e:,ellen,e* -as t-e .reatest e22e,t on its
mat0rity) and t-is is not only tr0e o2 1lants* b0t o2 animals wild and
tame* and also o2 men/ +an* as we say* is a tame or ,i4ili<ed
animal) ne4ert-eless* -e re;0ires 1ro1er instr0,tion and a 2ort0nate
nat0re* and t-en o2 all animals -e be,omes t-e most di4ine and most
,i4ili<ed) b0t i2 -e be ins022i,iently or ill ed0,ated -e is t-e
most sa4a.e o2 eart-ly ,reat0res/ W-ere2ore t-e le.islator o0.-t not
to allow t-e ed0,ation o2 ,-ildren to be,ome a se,ondary or a,,idental
matter/ In t-e 2irst 1la,e* -e w-o wo0ld be ri.-tly 1ro4ident abo0t
t-em* s-o0ld be.in by ta6in. ,are t-at -e is ele,ted* w-o o2 all t-e
,iti<ens is in e4ery way best) -im t-e le.islator s-all do -is
0tmost to a11oint .0ardian and s01erintendent/ #o t-is end all t-e
ma.istrates* wit- t-e e:,e1tion o2 t-e ,o0n,il and 1rytanes* s-all
.o to t-e tem1le o2 A1ollo* and ele,t by ballot -im o2 t-e .0ardians
o2 t-e law w-om t-ey se4erally t-in6 will be t-e best s01erintendent
o2 ed0,ation/ And -e w-o -as t-e .reatest n0mber o2 4otes* a2ter -e
-as 0nder.one a s,r0tiny at t-e -ands o2 all t-e ma.istrates w-o
-a4e been -is ele,tors* wit- t-e e:,e1tion o2 t-e .0ardians o2 t-e
law9s-all -old o22i,e 2or 2i4e years) and in t-e si:t- year let
anot-er be ,-osen in li6e manner to 2ill -is o22i,e/
I2 any one dies w-ile -e is -oldin. a 10bli, o22i,e* and more t-an
t-irty days be2ore -is term o2 o22i,e e:1ires* let t-ose w-ose
b0siness it is ele,t anot-er to t-e o22i,e in t-e same manner as
be2ore/ And i2 any one w-o is entr0sted wit- or1-ans dies* let t-e
relations bot- on t-e 2at-er=s and mot-er=s side* w-o are residin.
at -ome* in,l0din. ,o0sins* a11oint anot-er .0ardian wit-in ten
days* or be 2ined a dra,-ma a day 2or ne.le,t to do so/
A ,ity w-i,- -as no re.0lar ,o0rts o2 law ,eases to be a ,ity) and
a.ain* i2 a j0d.e is silent and says no more in 1reliminary
1ro,eedin.s t-an t-e liti.ants* as is t-e ,ase in arbitrations* -e
will ne4er be able to de,ide j0stly) w-ere2ore a m0ltit0de o2 j0d.es
will not easily j0d.e well* nor a 2ew i2 t-ey are bad/ #-e 1oint in
dis10te between t-e 1arties s-o0ld be made ,lear) and time* and
deliberation* and re1eated e:amination* .reatly tend to ,lear 01
do0bts/ "or t-is reason* -e w-o .oes to law wit- anot-er s-o0ld .o
2irst o2 all to -is nei.-bo0rs and 2riends w-o 6now best t-e ;0estions
at iss0e/ And i2 -e be 0nable to obtain 2rom t-em a satis2a,tory
de,ision* let -im -a4e re,o0rse to anot-er ,o0rt) and i2 t-e two
,o0rts ,annot settle t-e matter* let a t-ird 10t an end to t-e s0it/
!ow t-e establis-ment o2 ,o0rts o2 j0sti,e may be re.arded as a
,-oi,e o2 ma.istrates* 2or e4ery ma.istrate m0st also be a j0d.e o2
some t-in.s) and t-e j0d.e* t-o0.- -e be not a ma.istrate* yet in
,ertain res1e,ts is a 4ery im1ortant ma.istrate on t-e day on w-i,- -e
is determinin. a s0it/ e.ardin. t-en t-e j0d.es also as
ma.istrates* let 0s say w-o are 2it to be j0d.es* and o2 w-at t-ey are
to be j0d.es* and -ow many o2 t-em are to j0d.e in ea,- s0it/ Let t-at
be t-e s01reme trib0nal w-i,- t-e liti.ants a11oint in ,ommon 2or
t-emsel4es* ,-oosin. ,ertain 1ersons by a.reement/ And let t-ere be
two ot-er trib0nals( one 2or 1ri4ate ,a0ses* w-en a ,iti<en a,,0ses
anot-er o2 wron.in. -im and wis-es to .et a de,ision) t-e ot-er 2or
10bli, ,a0ses* in w-i,- some ,iti<en is o2 o1inion t-at t-e 10bli, -as
been wron.ed by an indi4id0al* and is willin. to 4indi,ate t-e
,ommon interests/ And we m0st not 2or.et to mention -ow t-e j0d.es are
to be ;0ali2ied* and w-o t-ey are to be/ In t-e 2irst 1la,e* let t-ere
be a trib0nal o1en to all 1ri4ate 1ersons w-o are tryin. ,a0ses one
a.ainst anot-er 2or t-e t-ird time* and let t-is be ,om1osed as
2ollows(9All t-e o22i,ers o2 state* as well ann0al as t-ose -oldin.
o22i,e 2or a lon.er 1eriod* w-en t-e new year is abo0t to ,ommen,e* in
t-e mont- 2ollowin. a2ter t-e s0mmer solsti,e* on t-e last day b0t one
o2 t-e year* s-all meet in some tem1le* and ,allin. &od to witness*
s-all dedi,ate one j0d.e 2rom e4ery ma.istra,y to be t-eir
2irst92r0its* ,-oosin. in ea,- o22i,e -im w-o seems to t-em to be
t-e best* and w-om t-ey deem li6ely to de,ide t-e ,a0ses o2 -is
2ellow9,iti<ens d0rin. t-e ens0in. year in t-e best and -oliest
manner/ And w-en t-e ele,tion is ,om1leted* a s,r0tiny s-all be -eld
in t-e 1resen,e o2 t-e ele,tors t-emsel4es* and i2 any one be reje,ted
anot-er s-all be ,-osen in t-e same manner/ #-ose w-o -a4e 0nder.one
t-e s,r0tiny s-all j0d.e t-e ,a0ses o2 t-ose w-o -a4e de,lined t-e
in2erior ,o0rts* and s-all .i4e t-eir 4ote o1enly/ #-e ,o0n,illors and
ot-er ma.istrates w-o -a4e ele,ted t-em s-all be re;0ired to be
-earers and s1e,tators o2 t-e ,a0ses) and any one else may be
1resent w-o 1leases/ I2 one man ,-ar.es anot-er wit- -a4in.
intentionally de,ided wron.* let -im .o to t-e .0ardians o2 t-e law
and lay -is a,,0sation be2ore t-em* and -e w-o is 2o0nd .0ilty in s0,-
a ,ase s-all 1ay dama.es to t-e inj0red 1arty e;0al to -al2 t-e
inj0ry) b0t i2 -e s-all a11ear to deser4e a .reater 1enalty* t-e
j0d.es s-all determine w-at additional 10nis-ment -e s-all s022er* and
-ow m0,- more -e o0.-t to 1ay to t-e 10bli, treas0ry* and to t-e 1arty
w-o bro0.-t t-e s0it/
In t-e j0d.ment o2 o22en,es a.ainst t-e state* t-e 1eo1le o0.-t to
1arti,i1ate* 2or w-en any one wron.s t-e state all are wron.ed* and
may reasonably ,om1lain i2 t-ey are not allowed to s-are in t-e
de,ision/ S0,- ,a0ses o0.-t to ori.inate wit- t-e 1eo1le* and t-e
o0.-t also to -a4e t-e 2inal de,ision o2 t-em* b0t t-e trial o2 t-em
s-all ta6e 1la,e be2ore t-ree o2 t-e -i.-est ma.istrates* 01on w-om
t-e 1lainti22 and t-e de2endant s-all a.ree) and i2 t-ey are not
able to ,ome to an a.reement t-emsel4es* t-e ,o0n,il s-all ,-oose
one o2 t-e two 1ro1osed/ And in 1ri4ate s0its* too* as 2ar as is
1ossible* all s-o0ld -a4e a s-are) 2or -e w-o -as no s-are in t-e
administration o2 j0sti,e* is a1t to ima.ine t-at -e -as no s-are in
t-e state at all/ And 2or t-is reason t-ere s-all be a ,o0rt o2 law in
e4ery tribe* and t-e j0d.es s-all be ,-osen by lot)9t-ey s-all .i4e
t-eir de,isions at on,e* and s-all be ina,,essible to entreaties/
#-e 2inal j0d.ment s-all rest wit- t-at ,o0rt w-i,-* as we maintain*
-as been establis-ed in t-e most in,orr01tible 2orm o2 w-i,- -0man
t-in.s admit( t-is s-all be t-e ,o0rt establis-ed 2or t-ose w-o are
0nable to .et rid o2 t-eir s0its eit-er in t-e ,o0rts o2 nei.-bo0rs or
o2 t-e tribes/
#-0s m0,- o2 t-e ,o0rts o2 law* w-i,-* as I was sayin.* ,annot be
1re,isely de2ined eit-er as bein. or not bein. o22i,es) a
s01er2i,ial s6et,- -as been .i4en o2 t-em* in w-i,- some t-in.s -a4e
been told and ot-ers omitted/ "or t-e ri.-t 1la,e o2 an e:a,t
statement o2 t-e laws res1e,tin. s0its* 0nder t-eir se4eral -eads*
will be at t-e end o2 t-e body o2 le.islation)9let 0s t-en e:1e,t t-em
at t-e end/ $it-erto o0r le.islation -as been ,-ie2ly o,,01ied wit-
t-e a11ointment o2 o22i,es/ Per2e,t 0nity and e:a,tness* e:tendin.
to t-e w-ole and e4ery 1arti,0lar o2 1oliti,al administration*
,annot be attained to t-e 20ll* 0ntil t-e dis,0ssion s-all -a4e a
be.innin.* middle* and end* and is ,om1lete in e4ery 1art/ At
1resent we -a4e rea,-ed t-e ele,tion o2 ma.istrates* and t-is may be
re.arded as a s022i,ient termination o2 w-at 1re,eded/ And now t-ere
need no lon.er be any delay or -esitation in be.innin. t-e wor6 o2
le.islation/
Cle/ I li6e w-at yo0 -a4e said* Stran.er9and I 1arti,0larly li6e
yo0r manner o2 ta,6in. on t-e be.innin. o2 yo0r new dis,o0rse to t-e
end o2 t-e 2ormer one/
At-/ #-0s 2ar* t-en* t-e old men=s rational 1astime -as .one o22
well/
Cle/ 7o0 mean* I s011ose* t-eir serio0s and noble 10rs0it3
At-/ Per-a1s) b0t I s-o0ld li6e to 6now w-et-er yo0 and I are a.reed
abo0t a ,ertain t-in./
Cle/ Abo0t w-at t-in.3
At-/ 7o0 6now/ t-e endless labo0r w-i,- 1ainters e:1end 01on t-eir
1i,t0res9t-ey are always 10ttin. in or ta6in. o0t ,olo0rs* or w-ate4er
be t-e term w-i,- artists em1loy) t-ey seem as i2 t-ey wo0ld ne4er
,ease to0,-in. 01 t-eir wor6s* w-i,- are always bein. made bri.-ter
and more bea0ti20l/
Cle/ I 6now somet-in. o2 t-ese matters 2rom re1ort* alt-o0.- I
-a4e ne4er -ad any .reat a,;0aintan,e wit- t-e art/
At-/ !o matter) we may ma6e 0se o2 t-e ill0stration
notwit-standin.(9S011ose t-at some one -ad a mind to 1aint a 2i.0re in
t-e most bea0ti20l manner* in t-e -o1e t-at -is wor6 instead o2 losin.
wo0ld always im1ro4e as time went on9do yo0 not see t-at bein. a
mortal* 0nless -e lea4es some one to s0,,eed -im w-o will ,orre,t
t-e 2laws w-i,- time may introd0,e* and be able to add w-at is le2t
im1er2e,t t-ro0.- t-e de2e,t o2 t-e artist* and w-o will 20rt-er
bri.-ten 01 and im1ro4e t-e 1i,t0re* all -is .reat labo0r will last
b0t a s-ort time3
Cle/ #r0e/
At-/ And is not t-e aim o2 t-e le.islator similar3 "irst* -e desires
t-at -is laws s-o0ld be written down wit- all 1ossible e:a,tness) in
t-e se,ond 1la,e* as time .oes on and -e -as made an a,t0al trial o2
-is de,rees* will -e not 2ind omissions3 %o yo0 ima.ine t-at t-ere
e4er was a le.islator so 2oolis- as not to 6now t-at many t-in.s are
ne,essarily omitted* w-i,- some one ,omin. a2ter -im m0st ,orre,t*
i2 t-e ,onstit0tion and t-e order o2 .o4ernment is not to deteriorate*
b0t to im1ro4e in t-e state w-i,- -e -as establis-ed3
Cle/ Ass0redly* t-at is t-e sort o2 t-in. w-i,- e4ery one wo0ld
desire/
At-/ And i2 any one 1ossesses any means o2 a,,om1lis-in. t-is by
word or deed* or -as any way .reat or small by w-i,- -e ,an tea,- a
1erson to 0nderstand -ow -e ,an maintain and amend t-e laws* -e s-o0ld
2inis- w-at -e -as to say* and not lea4e t-e wor6 in,om1lete/
Cle/ By all means/
At-/ And is not t-is w-at yo0 and I -a4e to do at t-e 1resent
moment3
Cle/ W-at -a4e we to do3
At-/ As we are abo0t to le.islate and -a4e ,-osen o0r .0ardians o2
t-e law* and are o0rsel4es in t-e e4enin. o2 li2e* and t-ey as
,om1ared wit- 0s are yo0n. men* we o0.-t not only to le.islate 2or
t-em* b0t to endea4o0r to ma6e t-em not only .0ardians o2 t-e law
b0t le.islators t-emsel4es* as 2ar as t-is is 1ossible/
Cle/ Certainly) i2 we ,an/
At-/ At any rate* we m0st do o0r best/
Cle/ O2 ,o0rse/
At-/ We will say to t-em9O 2riends and sa4io0rs o2 o0r laws* in
layin. down any law* t-ere are many 1arti,0lars w-i,- we s-all omit*
and t-is ,annot be -el1ed) at t-e same time* we will do o0r 0tmost
to des,ribe w-at is im1ortant* and will .i4e an o0tline w-i,- yo0
s-all 2ill 01/ And I will e:1lain on w-at 1rin,i1le yo0 are to a,t/
+e.ill0s and Cleinias and I -a4e o2ten s1o6en to one anot-er
to0,-in. t-ese matters* and we are o2 o1inion t-at we -a4e s1o6en
well/ And we -o1e t-at yo0 will be o2 t-e same mind wit- 0s* and
be,ome o0r dis,i1les* and 6ee1 in 4iew t-e t-in.s w-i,- in o0r
0nited o1inion t-e le.islator and .0ardian o2 t-e law o0.-t to 6ee1 in
4iew/ #-ere was one main 1oint abo0t w-i,- we were a.reed9t-at a man=s
w-ole ener.ies t-ro0.-o0t li2e s-o0ld be de4oted to t-e a,;0isition o2
t-e 4irt0e 1ro1er to a man* w-et-er t-is was to be .ained by st0dy* or
-abit* or some mode o2 a,;0isition* or desire* or o1inion* or
6nowled.e9and t-is a11lies e;0ally to men and women* old and yo0n.9t-e
aim o2 all s-o0ld always be s0,- as I -a4e des,ribed) anyt-in. w-i,-
may be an im1ediment* t-e .ood man o0.-t to s-ow t-at -e 0tterly
disre.ards/ And i2 at last ne,essity 1lainly ,om1els -im to be an
o0tlaw 2rom -is nati4e land* rat-er t-an bow -is ne,6 to t-e yo6e o2
sla4ery and be r0led by in2eriors* and -e -as to 2ly* an e:ile -e m0st
be and end0re all s0,- trials* rat-er t-an a,,e1t anot-er 2orm o2
.o4ernment* w-i,- is li6ely to ma6e men worse/ #-ese are o0r
ori.inal 1rin,i1les) and do yo0 now* 2i:in. yo0r eyes 01on t-e
standard o2 w-at a man and a ,iti<en o0.-t or o0.-t not to be*
1raise and blame t-e laws9blame t-ose w-i,- -a4e not t-is 1ower o2
ma6in. t-e ,iti<en better* b0t embra,e t-ose w-i,- -a4e) and wit-
.ladness re,ei4e and li4e in t-em) biddin. a lon. 2arewell to ot-er
instit0tions w-i,- aim at .oods* as t-ey are termed* o2 a di22erent
6ind/
Let 0s 1ro,eed to anot-er ,lass o2 laws* be.innin. wit- t-eir
2o0ndation in reli.ion/ And we m0st 2irst ret0rn to t-e n0mber
F0G09t-e entire n0mber -ad* and -as* a .reat many ,on4enient
di4isions* and t-e n0mber o2 t-e tribes w-i,- was a twel2t- 1art o2
t-e w-ole* bein. ,orre,tly 2ormed by IH E I0 BF0G0J>IH E I0?* i/e/*
F0G0JGI0KHIC* also -as t-em/ And not only is t-e w-ole n0mber
di4isible by twel4e* b0t also t-e n0mber o2 ea,- tribe is di4isible by
twel4e/ !ow e4ery 1ortion s-o0ld be re.arded by 0s as a sa,red .i2t o2
$ea4en* ,orres1ondin. to t-e mont-s and to t-e re4ol0tion o2 t-e
0ni4erse/ E4ery ,ity -as a .0idin. and sa,red 1rin,i1le .i4en by
nat0re* b0t in some t-e di4ision or distrib0tion -as been more ri.-t
t-an in ot-ers* and -as been more sa,red and 2ort0nate/ In o0r
o1inion* not-in. ,an be more ri.-t t-an t-e sele,tion o2 t-e n0mber
F0G0* w-i,- may be di4ided by all n0mbers 2rom one to twel4e wit-
t-e sin.le e:,e1tion o2 ele4en* and t-at admits o2 a 4ery easy
,orre,tion) 2or i2* t0rnin. to t-e di4idend >F0G0?* we ded0,t two
2amilies* t-e de2e,t in t-e di4ision is ,0red/ And t-e tr0t- o2 t-is
may be easily 1ro4ed w-en we -a4e leis0re/ B0t 2or t-e 1resent*
tr0stin. to t-e mere assertion o2 t-is 1rin,i1le* let 0s di4ide t-e
state) and assi.nin. to ea,- 1ortion some &od or son o2 a &od* let
0s .i4e t-em altars and sa,red rites* and at t-e altars let 0s -old
assemblies 2or sa,ri2i,e twi,e in t-e mont-9twel4e assemblies 2or
t-e tribes* and twel4e 2or t-e ,ity* a,,ordin. to t-eir di4isions) t-e
2irst in -ono0r o2 t-e &ods and di4ine t-in.s* and t-e se,ond to
1romote 2riends-i1 and Abetter a,;0aintan,e*A as t-e 1-rase is* and
e4ery sort o2 .ood 2ellows-i1 wit- one anot-er/ "or 1eo1le m0st be
a,;0ainted wit- t-ose into w-ose 2amilies and w-om t-ey marry and wit-
t-ose to w-om t-ey .i4e in marria.e) in s0,- matters* as 2ar as
1ossible* a man s-o0ld deem it all im1ortant to a4oid a mista6e* and
wit- t-is serio0s 10r1ose let .ames be instit0ted in w-i,- yo0t-s
and maidens s-all dan,e to.et-er* seein. one anot-er and bein. seen
na6ed* at a 1ro1er a.e* and on a s0itable o,,asion* not
trans.ressin. t-e r0les o2 modesty/
#-e dire,tors o2 ,-or0ses will be t-e s01erintendents and re.0lators
o2 t-ese .ames* and t-ey* to.et-er wit- t-e .0ardians o2 t-e law* will
le.islate in any matters w-i,- we -a4e omitted) 2or* as we said* w-ere
t-ere are n0mero0s and min0te details* t-e le.islator m0st lea4e o0t
somet-in./ And t-e ann0al o22i,ers w-o -a4e e:1erien,e* and 6now
w-at is wanted* m0st ma6e arran.ements and im1ro4ements year by
year* 0ntil s0,- ena,tments and 1ro4isions are s022i,iently
determined/ A ten years e:1erien,e o2 sa,ri2i,es and dan,es* i2
e:tendin. to all 1arti,0lars* will be ;0ite s022i,ient) and i2 t-e
le.islator be ali4e t-ey s-all ,omm0ni,ate wit- -im* b0t i2 -e be dead
t-en t-e se4eral o22i,ers s-all re2er t-e omissions w-i,- ,ome 0nder
t-eir noti,e to t-e .0ardians o2 t-e law* and ,orre,t t-em* 0ntil
all is 1er2e,t) and 2rom t-at time t-ere s-all be no more ,-an.e*
and t-ey s-all establis- and 0se t-e new laws wit- t-e ot-ers w-i,-
t-e le.islator ori.inally .a4e t-em* and o2 w-i,- t-ey are ne4er* i2
t-ey ,an -el1* to ,-an.e a0.-t) or* i2 some ne,essity o4erta6es
t-em* t-e ma.istrates m0st be ,alled into ,o0nsel* and t-e w-ole
1eo1le* and t-ey m0st .o to all t-e ora,les o2 t-e &ods) and i2 t-ey
are all a.reed* in t-at ,ase t-ey may ma6e t-e ,-an.e* b0t i2 t-ey are
not a.reed* by no manner o2 means* and any one w-o dissents s-all
1re4ail* as t-e law ordains/
W-ene4er any one o4er twenty92i4e years o2 a.e* -a4in. seen and been
seen by ot-ers* belie4es -imsel2 to -a4e 2o0nd a marria.e ,onne,tion
w-i,- is to -is mind* and s0itable 2or t-e 1ro,reation o2 ,-ildren*
let -im marry i2 -e be still 0nder t-e a.e o2 2i4e9and9t-irty years)
b0t let -im 2irst -ear -ow -e o0.-t to see6 a2ter w-at is s0itable and
a11ro1riate/ "or* as Cleinias says* e4ery law s-o0ld -a4e a s0itable
1rel0de/
Cle/ 7o0 re,olle,t at t-e ri.-t moment* Stran.er* and do not miss
t-e o11ort0nity w-i,- t-e ar.0ment a22ords o2 sayin. a word in season/
At-/ I t-an6 yo0/ We will say to -im w-o is born o2 .ood 1arents9O
my son* yo0 o0.-t to ma6e s0,- a marria.e as wise men wo0ld a11ro4e/
!ow t-ey wo0ld ad4ise yo0 neit-er to a4oid a 1oor marria.e* nor
s1e,ially to desire a ri,- one) b0t i2 ot-er t-in.s are e;0al*
always to -ono0r in2eriors* and wit- t-em to 2orm ,onne,tions)9t-is
will be 2or t-e bene2it o2 t-e ,ity and o2 t-e 2amilies w-i,- are
0nited) 2or t-e e;0able and symmetri,al tends in2initely more to
4irt0e t-an t-e 0nmi:ed/ And -e w-o is ,ons,io0s o2 bein. too
-eadstron.* and ,arried away more t-an is 2ittin. in all -is
a,tions* o0.-t to desire to be,ome t-e relation o2 orderly 1arents)
and -e w-o is o2 t-e o11osite tem1er o0.-t to see6 t-e o11osite
allian,e/ Let t-ere be one word ,on,ernin. all marria.es(9E4ery man
s-all 2ollow* not a2ter t-e marria.e w-i,- is most 1leasin. to
-imsel2* b0t a2ter t-at w-i,- is most bene2i,ial to t-e state/ "or
some-ow e4ery one is by nat0re 1rone to t-at w-i,- is li6est to
-imsel2* and in t-is way t-e w-ole ,ity be,omes 0ne;0al in 1ro1erty
and in dis1osition) and -en,e t-ere arise in most states t-e 4ery
res0lts w-i,- we least desire to -a11en/ !ow* to add to t-e law an
e:1ress 1ro4ision* not only t-at t-e ri,- man s-all not marry into t-e
ri,- 2amily* nor t-e 1ower20l into t-e 2amily o2 t-e 1ower20l* b0t
t-at t-e slower nat0res s-all be ,om1elled to enter into marria.e wit-
t-e ;0i,6er* and t-e ;0i,6er wit- t-e slower* may awa6en an.er as well
as la0.-ter in t-e minds o2 many) 2or t-ere is a di22i,0lty in
1er,ei4in. t-at t-e ,ity o0.-t to be well min.led li6e a ,01* in w-i,-
t-e maddenin. wine is -ot and 2iery* b0t w-en ,-astened by a soberer
&od* re,ei4es a 2air asso,iate and be,omes an e:,ellent and
tem1erate drin6/ 7et in marria.e no one is able to see t-at t-e same
res0lt o,,0rs/ W-ere2ore also t-e law m0st let alone s0,- matters* b0t
we s-o0ld try to ,-arm t-e s1irits o2 men into belie4in. t-e
e;0ability o2 t-eir ,-ildren=s dis1osition to be o2 more im1ortan,e
t-an e;0ality in e:,essi4e 2ort0ne w-en t-ey marry) and -im w-o is too
desiro0s o2 ma6in. a ri,- marria.e we s-o0ld endea4o0r to t0rn aside
by re1roa,-es* not* -owe4er* by any ,om10lsion o2 written law/
Let t-is t-en be o0r e:-ortation ,on,ernin. marria.e* and let 0s
remember w-at was said be2ore9t-at a man s-o0ld ,lin. to
immortality* and lea4e be-ind -im ,-ildren=s ,-ildren to be t-e
ser4ants o2 &od in -is 1la,e 2or e4er/ All t-is and m0,- more may be
tr0ly said by way o2 1rel0de abo0t t-e d0ty o2 marria.e/ B0t i2 a
man will not listen and remains 0nso,ial and alien amon. -is
2ellow9,iti<ens* and is still 0nmarried at t-irty92i4e years o2 a.e*
let -im 1ay a yearly 2ine)9-e w-o o2 t-e -i.-est ,lass s-all 1ay a
2ine o2 a -0ndred dra,-mae* and -e w-o is o2 t-e se,ond dass a 2ine o2
se4enty dra,-mae) t-e t-ird ,lass s-all 1ay si:ty dra,-mae* and t-e
2o0rt- t-irty dra,-mae* and let t-e money be sa,red to $ere) -e w-o
does not 1ay t-e 2ine ann0ally s-all owe ten times t-e s0m* w-i,-
t-e treas0rer o2 t-e .oddess s-all e:a,t) and i2 -e 2ails in doin. so*
let -im be answerable and .i4e an a,,o0nt o2 t-e/ money at -is
a0dit/ $e w-o re20ses to marry s-all be t-0s 10nis-ed in money* and
also be de1ri4ed o2 all -ono0r w-i,- t-e yo0n.er s-ow to t-e elder)
let no yo0n. man 4ol0ntarily obey -im* and i2 -e attem1t to 10nis- any
one* let e4ery one ,ome to t-e res,0e and de2end t-e inj0red 1erson*
and -e w-o is 1resent and does not ,ome to t-e res,0e* s-all be
1rono0n,ed by t-e law to be a ,oward and a bad ,iti<en/ O2 t-e
marria.e 1ortion I -a4e already s1o6en) and a.ain I say 2or t-e
instr0,tion o2 1oor men t-at -e w-o neit-er .i4es nor re,ei4es a dowry
on a,,o0nt o2 1o4erty* -as a ,om1ensation) 2or t-e ,iti<ens o2 o0r
state are 1ro4ided wit- t-e ne,essaries o2 li2e* and wi4es will be
less li6ely to be insolent* and -0sbands to be mean and s0bser4ient to
t-em on a,,o0nt o2 1ro1erty/ And -e w-o obeys t-is law will do a noble
a,tion) b0t -e w-o will not obey* and .i4es or re,ei4es more t-an
2i2ty dra,-mae as t-e 1ri,e o2 t-e marria.e .arments i2 -e be o2 t-e
lowest* or more t-an a mina* or a mina and9a9-al2* i2 -e be o2 t-e
t-ird or se,ond ,lasses* or two minae i2 -e be o2 t-e -i.-est ,lass*
s-all owe to t-e 10bli, treas0ry a similar s0m* and t-at w-i,- is
.i4en or re,ei4ed s-all be sa,red to $ere and 5e0s) and let t-e
treas0rers o2 t-ese &ods e:a,t t-e money* as was said be2ore abo0t t-e
0nmarried9t-at t-e treas0rers o2 $ere were to e:a,t t-e money* or
1ay t-e 2ine t-emsel4es/
#-e betrot-al by a 2at-er s-all be 4alid in t-e 2irst de.ree* t-at
by a .rand2at-er in t-e se,ond de.ree* and in t-e t-ird de.ree*
betrot-al by brot-ers w-o -a4e t-e same 2at-er) b0t i2 t-ere are
none o2 t-ese ali4e* t-e betrot-al by a mot-er s-all be 4alid in
li6e manner) in ,ases o2 0ne:am1led 2atality* t-e ne:t o2 6in and
t-e .0ardians s-all -a4e a0t-ority/ W-at are to be t-e rites be2ore
marria.es* or any ot-er sa,red a,ts* relatin. eit-er to 20t0re*
1resent* or 1ast marria.es* s-all be re2erred to t-e inter1reters) and
-e w-o 2ollows t-eir ad4i,e may be satis2ied/ #o0,-in. t-e marria.e
2esti4al* t-ey s-all assemble not more t-an 2i4e male and 2i4e
2emale 2riends o2 bot- 2amilies) and a li6e n0mber o2 members o2 t-e
2amily o2 eit-er se:* and no man s-all s1end more t-an -is means
will allow) -e w-o is o2 t-e ri,-est ,lass may s1end a mina9-e w-o
is o2 t-e se,ond* -al2 a mina* and in t-e same 1ro1ortion as t-e
,ens0s o2 ea,- de,reases( all men s-all 1raise -im w-o is obedient
to t-e law) b0t -e w-o is disobedient s-all be 10nis-ed by t-e
.0ardians o2 t-e law as a man wantin. in tr0e taste* and
0ninstr0,ted in t-e laws o2 bridal son./ %r0n6enness is always
im1ro1er* e:,e1t at t-e 2esti4als o2 t-e &od w-o .a4e wine) and
1e,0liarly dan.ero0s* w-en a man is en.a.ed in t-e b0siness o2
marria.e) at s0,- a ,risis o2 t-eir li4es a bride and bride.room o0.-t
to -a4e all t-eir wits abo0t t-em9t-ey o0.-t to ta6e ,are t-at t-eir
o22s1rin. may be born o2 reasonable bein.s) 2or on w-at day or ni.-t
$ea4en will .i4e t-em in,rease* w-o ,an say3 +oreo4er* t-ey o0.-t
not to be.ettin. ,-ildren w-en t-eir bodies are dissi1ated by
into:i,ation* b0t t-eir o22s1rin. s-o0ld be ,om1a,t and solid* ;0iet
and ,om1o0nded 1ro1erly) w-ereas t-e dr0n6ard is all abroad in all -is
a,tions* and beside -imsel2 bot- in body and so0l/ W-ere2ore* also*
t-e dr0n6en man is bad and 0nsteady in sowin. t-e seed o2 in,rease*
and is li6ely to be.et o22s1rin. w-o will be 0nstable and
0ntr0stwort-y* and ,annot be e:1e,ted to wal6 strai.-t eit-er in
body or mind/ $en,e d0rin. t-e w-ole year and all -is li2e lon.* and
es1e,ially w-ile -e is be.ettin. ,-ildren* o0.-t to ta6e ,are and
not intentionally do w-at is inj0rio0s to -ealt-* or w-at in4ol4es
insolen,e and wron.) 2or -e ,annot -el1 lea4in. t-e im1ression o2
-imsel2 on t-e so0ls and bodies o2 -is o22s1rin.* and -e be.ets
,-ildren in e4ery way in2erior/ And es1e,ially on t-e day and ni.-t o2
marria.e s-o0ld a man abstain 2rom s0,- t-in.s/ "or t-e be.innin.*
w-i,- is also a &od dwellin. in man* 1reser4es all t-in.s* i2 it
meet wit- 1ro1er res1e,t 2rom ea,- indi4id0al/ $e w-o marries is
20rt-er to ,onsider t-at one o2 t-e two -o0ses in t-e lot is t-e
nest and n0rsery o2 -is yo0n.* and t-ere -e is to marry and ma6e a
-ome 2or -imsel2 and brin. 01 -is ,-ildren* .oin. away 2rom -is 2at-er
and mot-er/ "or in 2riends-i1s t-ere m0st be some de.ree o2 desire* in
order to ,ement and bind to.et-er di4ersities o2 ,-ara,ter) b0t
e:,essi4e inter,o0rse not -a4in. t-e desire w-i,- is ,reated by
time* insensibly dissol4es 2riends-i1s 2rom a 2eelin. o2 satiety)
w-ere2ore a man and -is wi2e s-all lea4e to -is and -er 2at-er and
mot-er t-eir own dwellin.91la,es* and t-emsel4es .o as to a ,olony and
dwell t-ere* and 4isit and be 4isited by t-eir 1arents) and t-ey s-all
be.et and brin. 01 ,-ildren* -andin. on t-e tor,- o2 li2e 2rom one
.eneration to anot-er* and wors-i11in. t-e &ods a,,ordin. to law 2or
e4er/
In t-e ne:t 1la,e* we -a4e to ,onsider w-at sort o2 1ro1erty will be
most ,on4enient/ #-ere is no di22i,0lty eit-er in 0nderstandin. or
a,;0irin. most 6inds o2 1ro1erty* b0t t-ere is .reat di22i,0lty in
w-at relates to sla4es/ And t-e reason is t-at we s1ea6 abo0t t-em
in a way w-i,- is ri.-t and w-i,- is not ri.-t) 2or w-at we say
abo0t o0r sla4es is ,onsistent and also in,onsistent wit- o0r 1ra,ti,e
abo0t t-em/
+e.ill0s/ I do not 0nderstand* Stran.er* w-at yo0 mean/
At-/ I am not s0r1rised* +e.ill0s* 2or t-e state o2 t-e $elots amon.
t-e La,edaemonians is o2 all $elleni, 2orms o2 sla4ery t-e most
,ontro4erted and dis10ted abo0t* some a11ro4in. and some ,ondemnin.
it) t-ere is less dis10te abo0t t-e sla4ery w-i,- e:ists amon. t-e
$era,leots* w-o -a4e s0bj0.ated t-e +ariandynians* and abo0t t-e
#-essalian Penestae/ Loo6in. at t-ese and t-e li6e e:am1les* w-at
o0.-t we to do ,on,ernin. 1ro1erty in sla4es3 I made a remar6* in
1assin.* w-i,- nat0rally eli,ited a ;0estion abo0t my meanin. 2rom
yo0/ It was t-is(9We 6now t-at all wo0ld a.ree t-at we s-o0ld -a4e t-e
best and most atta,-ed sla4es w-om we ,an .et/ "or many a man -as
2o0nd -is sla4es better in e4ery way t-an bret-ren or sons* and many
times t-ey -a4e sa4ed t-e li4es and 1ro1erty o2 t-eir masters and
t-eir w-ole -o0se9s0,- tales are well 6nown/
+e./ #o be s0re/
At-/ B0t may we not also say t-at t-e so0l o2 t-e sla4e is 0tterly
,orr01t* and t-at no man o2 sense o0.-t to tr0st t-em3 And t-e
wisest o2 o0r 1oets* s1ea6in. o2 5e0s* says(
"ar9seein. 5e0s ta6es away -al2 t-e 0nderstandin. o2 men w-om t-e
day o2 sla4ery s0bd0es/
%i22erent 1ersons -a4e .ot t-ese two di22erent notions o2 sla4es in
t-eir minds9some o2 t-em 0tterly distr0st t-eir ser4ants* and* as i2
t-ey were wild beasts* ,-astise t-em wit- .oads and w-i1s* and ma6e
t-eir so0ls t-ree times* or rat-er many times* as sla4is- as t-ey were
be2ore)9and ot-ers do j0st t-e o11osite/
+e./ #r0e/
Cle/ #-en w-at are we to do in o0r own ,o0ntry* Stran.er* seein.
t-at t-ere are* s0,- di22eren,es in t-e treatment o2 sla4es by t-eir
owners3
At-/ Well* Cleinias* t-ere ,an be no do0bt t-at man is a tro0blesome
animal* and t-ere2ore -e is not 4ery mana.eable* nor li6ely to
be,ome so* w-en yo0 attem1t to introd0,e t-e ne,essary di4ision*
sla4e* and 2reeman* and master/
Cle/ #-at is ob4io0s/
At-/ $e is a tro0blesome 1ie,e o2 .oods* as -as been o2ten s-own
by t-e 2re;0ent re4olts o2 t-e +essenians* and t-e .reat mis,-ie2s
w-i,- -a11en in states -a4in. many sla4es w-o s1ea6 t-e same lan.0a.e*
and t-e n0mero0s robberies and lawless li2e o2 t-e Italian banditti*
as t-ey are ,alled/ A man w-o ,onsiders all t-is is 2airly at a
loss/ #wo remedies alone remain to 0s9not to -a4e t-e sla4es o2 t-e
same ,o0ntry* nor i2 1ossible* s1ea6in. t-e same lan.0a.e) in t-is way
t-ey will more easily be -eld in s0bje,tion( se,ondly* we s-o0ld
tend t-em ,are20lly* not only o0t o2 re.ard to t-em* b0t yet more
o0t o2 res1e,t to o0rsel4es/ And t-e ri.-t treatment o2 sla4es is to
be-a4e 1ro1erly to t-em* and to do to t-em* i2 1ossible* e4en more
j0sti,e t-an to t-ose w-o are o0r e;0als) 2or -e w-o nat0rally and
.en0inely re4eren,es j0sti,e* and -ates inj0sti,e* is dis,o4ered in
-is dealin.s wit- any ,lass o2 men to w-om -e ,an easily be 0nj0st/
And -e w-o in re.ard to t-e nat0res and a,tions o2 -is sla4es is
0nde2iled by im1iety and inj0sti,e* will best sow t-e seeds o2
4irt0e in t-em) and t-is may be tr0ly said o2 e4ery master* and
tyrant* and o2 e4ery ot-er -a4in. a0t-ority in relation to -is
in2eriors/ Sla4es o0.-t to be 10nis-ed as t-ey deser4e* and not
admonis-ed as i2 t-ey were 2reemen* w-i,- will only ma6e t-em
,on,eited/ #-e lan.0a.e 0sed to a ser4ant o0.-t always to be t-at o2 a
,ommand* and we o0.-t not to jest wit- t-em* w-et-er t-ey are males or
2emales9t-is is a 2oolis- way w-i,- many 1eo1le -a4e o2 settin. 01
t-eir sla4es* and ma6in. t-e li2e o2 ser4it0de more disa.reeable
bot- 2or t-em and 2or t-eir masters/
Cle/ #r0e/
At-/ !ow t-at ea,- o2 t-e ,iti<ens is 1ro4ided* as 2ar as
1ossible* wit- a s022i,ient n0mber o2 s0itable sla4es w-o ,an -el1 -im
in w-at -e -as to do* we may ne:t 1ro,eed to des,ribe t-eir dwellin.s/
Cle/ 8ery .ood/
At-/ #-e ,ity bein. new and -it-erto 0nin-abited* ,are o0.-t to be
ta6en o2 all t-e b0ildin.s* and t-e manner o2 b0ildin. ea,- o2 t-em*
and also o2 t-e tem1les and walls/ #-ese* Cleinias* were matters w-i,-
1ro1erly ,ame be2ore t-e marria.es) b0t* as we are only tal6in.* t-ere
is no obje,tion to ,-an.in. t-e order/ I2* -owe4er* o0r 1lan o2
le.islation is e4er to ta6e e22e,t* t-en t-e -o0se s-all 1re,ede t-e
marria.e i2 &od so will* and a2terwards we will ,ome to t-e
re.0lations abo0t marria.e) b0t at 1resent we are only des,ribin.
t-ese matters in a .eneral o0tline/
Cle/ @0ite tr0e/
At-/ #-e tem1les are to be 1la,ed all ro0nd t-e a.ora* and t-e w-ole
,ity b0ilt on t-e -ei.-ts in a ,ir,le* 2or t-e sa6e o2 de2en,e and 2or
t-e sa6e o2 10rity/ !ear t-e tem1les are to be 1la,ed b0ildin.s 2or
t-e ma.istrates and t-e ,o0rts o2 law) in t-ese 1lainti22 and
de2endant will re,ei4e t-eir d0e* and t-e 1la,es will be re.arded as
most -oly* 1artly be,a0se t-ey -a4e to do wit- t-e -oly t-in.s( and
1artly be,a0se t-ey are t-e dwellin.91la,es o2 -oly &ods( and in
t-em will be -eld t-e ,o0rts in w-i,- ,ases o2 -omi,ide and ot-er
trials o2 ,a1ital o22enses may 2itly ta6e 1la,e/ As to t-e walls*
+e.ill0s* I a.ree wit- S1arta in t-in6in. t-at t-ey s-o0ld be
allowed to slee1 in t-e eart-* and t-at we s-o0ld not attem1t to
disinter t-em) t-ere is a 1oeti,al sayin.* w-i,- is 2inely
e:1ressed* t-at Awalls o0.-t to be o2 steel and iron* and not o2
eart-) besides* -ow ridi,0lo0s o2 0s to be sendin. o0t o0r yo0n. men
ann0ally into t-e ,o0ntry to di. and to tren,-* and to 6ee1 o22 t-e
enemy by 2orti2i,ations* 0nder t-e idea t-at t-ey are not to be
allowed to set 2oot in o0r territory* and t-en* t-at we s-o0ld
s0rro0nd o0rsel4es wit- a wall* w-i,-* in t-e 2irst 1la,e* is by no
means ,ond0,i4e to t-e -ealt- o2 ,ities* and is also a1t to 1rod0,e
a ,ertain e22emina,y in t-e minds o2 t-e in-abitants* in4itin. men
to r0n t-it-er instead o2 re1ellin. t-eir enemies* and leadin. t-em to
ima.ine t-at t-eir sa2ety is d0e not to t-eir 6ee1in. .0ard day and
ni.-t* b0t t-at w-en t-ey are 1rote,ted by walls and .ates* t-en
t-ey may slee1 in sa2ety) as i2 t-ey were not meant to labo0r* and did
not 6now t-at tr0e re1ose ,omes 2rom labo0r* and t-at dis.ra,e20l
indolen,e and a ,areless tem1er o2 mind is only t-e renewal o2
tro0ble/ B0t i2 men m0st -a4e walls* t-e 1ri4ate -o0ses o0.-t to be so
arran.ed 2rom t-e 2irst t-at t-e w-ole ,ity may be one wall* -a4in.
all t-e -o0ses ,a1able o2 de2en,e by reason o2 t-eir 0ni2ormity and
e;0ality towards t-e streets/ #-e 2orm o2 t-e ,ity bein. t-at o2 a
sin.le dwellin. will -a4e an a.reeable as1e,t* and bein. easily
.0arded will be in2initely better 2or se,0rity/ 'ntil t-e ori.inal
b0ildin. is ,om1leted* t-ese s-o0ld be t-e 1rin,i1al obje,ts o2 t-e
in-abitants) and t-e wardens o2 t-e ,ity s-o0ld s01erintend t-e
wor6* and s-o0ld im1ose a 2ine on -im w-o is ne.li.ent) and in all
t-at relates to t-e ,ity t-ey s-o0ld -a4e a ,are o2 ,leanliness* and
not allow a 1ri4ate 1erson to en,roa,- 01on any 10bli, 1ro1erty eit-er
by b0ildin.s or e:,a4ations/ "0rt-er* t-ey o0.-t to ta6e ,are t-at t-e
rains 2rom -ea4en 2low o22 easily* and o2 any ot-er matters w-i,-
may -a4e to be administered eit-er wit-in or wit-o0t t-e ,ity/ #-e
.0ardians o2 t-e law s-all 1ass any 20rt-er ena,tments w-i,- t-eir
e:1erien,e may s-ow to be ne,essary* and s011ly any ot-er 1oints in
w-i,- t-e law may be de2i,ient/ And now t-at t-ese matters* and t-e
b0ildin.s abo0t t-e a.ora* and t-e .ymnasia* and 1la,es o2
instr0,tion* and t-eatres* are all ready and waitin. 2or s,-olars
and s1e,tators* let 0s 1ro,eed to t-e s0bje,ts w-i,- 2ollow marria.e
in t-e order o2 le.islation/
Cle/ By all means/
At-/ Ass0min. t-at marria.es e:ist already* Cleinias* t-e mode o2
li2e d0rin. t-e year a2ter marria.e* be2ore ,-ildren are born* will
2ollow ne:t in order/ In w-at way bride and bride.room o0.-t to li4e
in a ,ity w-i,- is to be s01erior to ot-er ,ities* is a matter not
at all easy 2or 0s to determine/ #-ere -a4e been many di22i,0lties
already* b0t t-is will be t-e .reatest o2 t-em* and t-e most
disa.reeable to t-e many/ Still I ,annot b0t say w-at a11ears to me to
be ri.-t and tr0e* Cleinias/
Cle/ Certainly/
At-/ $e w-o ima.ines t-at -e ,an .i4e laws 2or t-e 10bli, ,ond0,t o2
states* w-ile -e lea4es t-e 1ri4ate li2e o2 ,iti<ens w-olly to ta6e
,are o2 itsel2) w-o t-in6s t-at indi4id0als may 1ass t-e day as t-ey
1lease* and t-at t-ere is no ne,essity o2 order in all t-in.s) -e* I
say* w-o .i4es 01 t-e ,ontrol o2 t-eir 1ri4ate li4es* and s011oses
t-at t-ey will ,on2orm to law in t-eir ,ommon and 10bli, li2e* is
ma6in. a .reat mista6e/ W-y -a4e I made t-is remar63 W-y* be,a0se I am
.oin. to ena,t t-at t-e bride.rooms s-o0ld li4e at t-e ,ommon
tables* j0st as t-ey did be2ore marria.e/ #-is was a sin.0larity
w-en 2irst ena,ted by t-e le.islator in yo0r 1arts o2 t-e world*
+e.ill0s and Cleinias* as I s-o0ld s011ose* on t-e o,,asion o2 some
war or ot-er similar dan.er* w-i,- ,a0sed t-e 1assin. o2 t-e law*
and w-i,- wo0ld be li6ely to o,,0r in t-inly91eo1led 1la,es* and in
times o2 1ress0re/ B0t w-en men -ad on,e tried and been a,,0stomed
to a ,ommon table* e:1erien,e s-owed t-at t-e instit0tion .reatly
,ond0,ed to se,0rity) and in some s0,- manner t-e ,0stom o2 -a4in.
,ommon tables arose amon. yo0/
Cle/ Li6ely eno0.-/
At-/ I said t-at t-ere may -a4e been sin.0larity and dan.er in
im1osin. s0,- a ,0stom at 2irst* b0t t-at now t-ere is not t-e same
di22i,0lty/ #-ere is* -owe4er* anot-er instit0tion w-i,- is t-e
nat0ral se;0el to t-is* and wo0ld be e:,ellent* i2 it e:isted
anyw-ere* b0t at 1resent it does not/ #-e instit0tion o2 w-i,- I am
abo0t to s1ea6 is not easily des,ribed or e:e,0ted) and wo0ld be
li6e t-e le.islator A,ombin. wool into t-e 2ire*A as 1eo1le say* or
1er2ormin. any ot-er im1ossible and 0seless 2eat/
Cle/ W-at is t-e ,a0se* Stran.er* o2 t-is e:treme -esitation3
At-/ 7o0 s-all -ear wit-o0t any 2r0itless loss o2 time/ #-at w-i,-
-as law and order in a state is t-e ,a0se o2 e4ery .ood* b0t t-at
w-i,- is disordered or ill9ordered is o2ten t-e r0in o2 t-at w-i,-
is well9ordered) and at t-is 1oint t-e ar.0ment is now waitin./ "or
wit- yo0* Cleinias and +e.ill0s* t-e ,ommon tables o2 men are* as I
said* a -ea4en9born and admirable instit0tion* b0t yo0 are mista6en in
lea4in. t-e women 0nre.0lated by law/ #-ey -a4e no similar instit0tion
o2 10bli, tables in t-e li.-t o2 day* and j0st t-at 1art o2 t-e
-0man ra,e w-i,- is by nat0re 1rone to se,re,y and stealt- on
a,,o0nt o2 t-eir wea6ness9I mean t-e 2emale se:9-as been le2t
wit-o0t re.0lation by t-e le.islator* w-i,- is a .reat mista6e/ And*
in ,onse;0en,e o2 t-is ne.le,t* many t-in.s -a4e .rown la: amon.
yo0* w-i,- mi.-t -a4e been 2ar better* i2 t-ey -ad been only re.0lated
by law) 2or t-e ne.le,t o2 re.0lations abo0t women may not only be
re.arded as a ne.le,t o2 -al2 t-e entire matter* b0t in 1ro1ortion
as woman=s nat0re is in2erior to t-at o2 men in ,a1a,ity 2or 4irt0e*
in t-at de.ree t-e ,onse;0en,e o2 s0,- ne.le,t is more t-an twi,e as
im1ortant/ #-e ,are20l ,onsideration o2 t-is matter* and t-e arran.in.
and orderin. on a ,ommon 1rin,i1le o2 all o0r instit0tions relatin.
bot- to men and women* .reatly ,ond0,es to t-e -a11iness o2 t-e state/
B0t at 1resent* s0,- is t-e 0n2ort0nate ,ondition o2 man6ind* t-at
no man o2 sense will e4en 4ent0re to s1ea6 o2 ,ommon tables in
1la,es and ,ities in w-i,- t-ey -a4e ne4er been establis-ed at all)
and -ow ,an any one a4oid bein. 0tterly ridi,0lo0s* w-o attem1ts to
,om1el women to s-ow in 10bli, -ow m0,- t-ey eat and drin63 #-ere is
not-in. at w-i,- t-e se: is more li6ely to ta6e o22en,e/ "or women are
a,,0stomed to ,ree1 into dar6 1la,es* and w-en dra..ed o0t into t-e
li.-t t-ey will e:ert t-eir 0tmost 1owers o2 resistan,e* and be 2ar
too m0,- 2or t-e le.islator/ And t-ere2ore* as I said be2ore* in
most 1la,es t-ey will not end0re to -a4e t-e tr0t- s1o6en wit-o0t
raisin. a tremendo0s o0t,ry* b0t in t-is state 1er-a1s t-ey may/ And
i2 we may ass0me t-at o0r w-ole dis,0ssion abo0t t-e state -as not
been mere idle tal6* I s-o0ld li6e to 1ro4e to yo0* i2 yo0 will
,onsent to listen* t-at t-is instit0tion is .ood and 1ro1er) b0t i2
yo0 -ad rat-er not* I will re2rain/
Cle/ #-ere is not-in. w-i,- we s-o0ld bot- o2 0s li6e better*
Stran.er* t-an to -ear w-at yo0 -a4e to say/
At-/ 8ery .ood) and yo0 m0st not be s0r1rised i2 I .o ba,6 a little*
2or we -a4e 1lenty o2 leis0re* and t-ere is not-in. to 1re4ent 0s 2rom
,onsiderin. in e4ery 1oint o2 4iew t-e s0bje,t o2 law/
Cle/ #r0e/
At-/ #-en let 0s ret0rn on,e more to w-at we were sayin. at 2irst/
E4ery man s-o0ld 0nderstand t-at t-e -0man ra,e eit-er -ad no
be.innin. at all* and will ne4er -a4e an end* b0t always will be and
-as been) or t-at it be.an an immense w-ile a.o/
Cle/ Certainly/
At-/ Well* and -a4e t-ere not been ,onstit0tions and destr0,tions o2
states* and all sorts o2 10rs0its bot- orderly and disorderly* and
di4erse desires o2 meats and drin6s always* and in all t-e world*
and all sorts o2 ,-an.es o2 t-e seasons in w-i,- animals may be
e:1e,ted to -a4e 0nder.one inn0merable trans2ormations o2 t-emsel4es3
Cle/ !o do0bt/
At-/ And may we not s011ose t-at 4ines a11eared* w-i,- -ad
1re4io0sly no e:isten,e* and also oli4es* and t-e .i2ts o2 %emeter and
-er da0.-ter* o2 w-i,- one #ri1tolem0s was t-e minister* and t-at*
be2ore t-ese e:isted* animals too6 to de4o0rin. ea,- ot-er as t-ey
do still3
Cle/ #r0e/
At-/ A.ain* t-e 1ra,ti,e o2 men sa,ri2i,in. one anot-er still e:ists
amon. many nations) w-ile* on t-e ot-er -and* we -ear o2 ot-er -0man
bein.s w-o did not e4en 4ent0re to taste t-e 2les- o2 a ,ow and -ad no
animal sa,ri2i,es* b0t only ,a6es and 2r0its di11ed in -oney* and
similar 10re o22erin.s* b0t no 2les- o2 animals) 2rom t-ese t-ey
abstained 0nder t-e idea t-at t-ey o0.-t not to eat t-em* and mi.-t
not stain t-e altars o2 t-e &ods wit- blood/ "or in t-ose days men are
said to -a4e li4ed a sort o2 Or1-i, li2e* -a4in. t-e 0se o2 all
li2eless t-in.s* b0t abstainin. 2rom all li4in. t-in.s/
Cle/ S0,- -as been t-e ,onstant tradition* and is 4ery li6ely tr0e/
At-/ Some one mi.-t say to 0s* W-at is t-e dri2t o2 all t-is3
Cle/ A 4ery 1ertinent ;0estion* Stran.er/
At-/ And t-ere2ore I will endea4o0r* Cleinias* i2 I ,an* to draw t-e
nat0ral in2eren,e/
Cle/ Pro,eed/
At-/ I see t-at amon. men all t-in.s de1end 01on t-ree wants and
desires* o2 w-i,- t-e end is 4irt0e* i2 t-ey are ri.-tly led by
t-em* or t-e o11osite i2 wron.ly/ !ow t-ese are eatin. and drin6in.*
w-i,- be.in at birt-9e4ery animal -as a nat0ral desire 2or t-em* and
is 4iolently e:,ited* and rebels a.ainst -im w-o says t-at -e m0st not
satis2y all -is 1leas0res and a11etites* and .et rid o2 all t-e
,orres1ondin. 1ains9and t-e t-ird and .reatest and s-ar1est want and
desire brea6s o0t last* and is t-e 2ire o2 se:0al l0st* w-i,-
6indles in men e4ery s1e,ies o2 wantonness and madness/ And t-ese
t-ree disorders we m0st endea4o0r to master by t-e t-ree .reat
1rin,i1les o2 2ear and law and ri.-t reason) t0rnin. t-em away 2rom
t-at w-i,- is ,alled 1leasantest to t-e best* 0sin. t-e +0ses and
t-e &ods w-o 1reside o4er ,ontests to e:tin.0is- t-eir in,rease and
in2l0:/
B0t to ret0rn(9A2ter marria.e let 0s s1ea6 o2 t-e birt- o2 ,-ildren*
and a2ter t-eir birt- o2 t-eir n0rt0re and ed0,ation/ In t-e ,o0rse o2
dis,0ssion t-e se4eral laws will be 1er2e,ted* and we s-all at last
arri4e at t-e ,ommon tables/ W-et-er s0,- asso,iations are to be
,on2ined to men* or e:tended to women also* we s-all see better w-en
we a11roa,- and ta6e a nearer 4iew o2 t-em) and we may t-en
determine w-at 1re4io0s instit0tions are re;0ired and will -a4e to
1re,ede t-em/ As I said be2ore we s-all see t-em more in detail* and
s-all be better able to lay down t-e laws w-i,- are 1ro1er or s0ited
to t-em/
Cle/ 8ery tr0e/
At-/ Let 0s 6ee1 in mind t-e words w-i,- -a4e now been s1o6en) 2or
-erea2ter t-ere may be need o2 t-em/
Cle/ W-at do yo0 bid 0s 6ee1 in mind3
At-/ #-at w-i,- we ,om1re-ended 0nder t-e t-ree words92irst* eatin.*
se,ondly* drin6in.* t-irdly* t-e e:,itement o2 lo4e/
Cle/ We s-all be s0re to remember* Stran.er/
At-/ 8ery .ood/ #-en let 0s now 1ro,eed to marria.e* and tea,-
1ersons in w-at way t-ey s-all be.et ,-ildren* t-reatenin. t-em* i2
t-ey disobey* wit- t-e terrors o2 t-e law/
Cle/ W-at do yo0 mean3
At-/ #-e bride and bride.room s-o0ld ,onsider t-at t-ey are to
1rod0,e 2or t-e state t-e best and 2airest s1e,imens o2 ,-ildren w-i,-
t-ey ,an/ !ow all men w-o are asso,iated any a,tion always s0,,eed
w-en t-ey attend and .i4e t-eir mind to w-at t-ey are doin.* b0t
w-en t-ey do not .i4e t-eir mind or -a4e no mind* t-ey 2ail) w-ere2ore
let t-e bride.room .i4e -is mind to t-e bride and to t-e be.ettin.
o2 ,-ildren* and t-e bride in li6e manner .i4e -er mind to t-e
bride.room* and 1arti,0larly at t-e time w-en t-eir ,-ildren are not
yet born/ And let t-e women w-om we -a4e ,-osen be t-e o4erseers o2
s0,- matters* and let t-em in w-ate4er n0mber* lar.e or small* and
at w-ate4er time t-e ma.istrates may ,ommand* assemble e4ery day in
t-e tem1le o2 Eileit-yia d0rin. a t-ird 1art o2 t-e day* and bein.
t-ere assembled* let t-em in2orm one anot-er o2 any one w-om t-ey see*
w-et-er man or woman* o2 t-ose w-o are be.ettin. ,-ildren*
disre.ardin. t-e ordinan,es .i4en at t-e time w-en t-e n01tial
sa,ri2i,es and ,eremonies were 1er2ormed/ Let t-e be.ettin. o2
,-ildren and t-e s01er4ision o2 t-ose w-o are be.ettin. t-em
,ontin0e ten years and no lon.er* d0rin. t-e time w-en marria.e is
2r0it20l/ B0t i2 any ,ontin0e wit-o0t ,-ildren 01 to t-is time* let
t-em ta6e ,o0nsel wit- t-eir 6indred and wit- t-e women -oldin. t-e
o22i,e o2 o4erseer and be di4or,ed 2or t-eir m0t0al bene2it/ I2*
-owe4er* any dis10te arises abo0t w-at is 1ro1er and 2or t-e
interest o2 eit-er 1arty* t-ey s-all ,-oose ten o2 t-e .0ardians o2
t-e law and abide by t-eir 1ermission and a11ointment/ #-e women w-o
1reside o4er t-ese matters s-all enter into t-e -o0ses o2 t-e yo0n.*
and 1artly by admonitions and 1artly by t-reats ma6e t-em .i4e o4er
t-eir 2olly and error( i2 t-ey 1ersist* let t-e women .o and tell
t-e .0ardians o2 t-e law* and t-e .0ardians s-all 1re4ent t-em/ B0t i2
t-ey too ,annot 1re4ent t-em* t-ey s-all brin. t-e matter be2ore t-e
1eo1le) and let t-em write 01 t-eir names and ma6e oat- t-at t-ey
,annot re2orm s0,- and s0,- an one) and let -im w-o is t-0s written
01* i2 -e ,annot in a ,o0rt o2 law ,on4i,t t-ose w-o -a4e ins,ribed
-is name* be de1ri4ed o2 t-e 1ri4ile.es o2 a ,iti<en in t-e
2ollowin. res1e,ts(9let -im not .o to weddin.s nor to t-e
t-an6s.i4in.s a2ter t-e birt- o2 ,-ildren) and i2 -e .o* let any one
w-o 1leases stri6e -im wit- im10nity) and let t-e same re.0lations
-old abo0t women( let not a woman be allowed to a11ear abroad* or
re,ei4e -ono0r* or .o to n01tial and birt-day 2esti4als* i2 s-e in
li6e manner be written 01 as a,tin. disorderly and ,annot obtain a
4erdi,t/ And i2* w-en t-ey t-emsel4es -a4e done be.ettin. ,-ildren
a,,ordin. to t-e law* a man or woman -a4e ,onne,tion wit- anot-er
man or woman w-o are still be.ettin. ,-ildren* let t-e same
1enalties be in2li,ted 01on t-em as 01on t-ose w-o are still -a4in.
a 2amily) and w-en t-e time 2or 1ro,reation -as 1assed let t-e man
or woman w-o re2rains in s0,- matters be -eld in esteem* and let t-ose
w-o do not re2rain be -eld in t-e ,ontrary o2 esteem9t-at is to say*
disesteem/ !ow* i2 t-e .reater 1art o2 man6ind be-a4e modestly* t-e
ena,tments o2 law may be le2t to sl0mber) b0t* i2 t-ey are disorderly*
t-e ena,tments -a4in. been 1assed* let t-em be ,arried into e:e,0tion/
#o e4ery man t-e 2irst year is t-e be.innin. o2 li2e* and t-e time
o2 birt- o0.-t to be written down in t-e tem1les o2 t-eir 2at-ers as
t-e be.innin. o2 e:isten,e to e4ery ,-ild* w-et-er boy or .irl/ Let
e4ery 1-ratria -a4e ins,ribed on a w-ited wall t-e names o2 t-e
s0,,essi4e ar,-ons by w-om t-e years are re,6oned/ And near to t-em
let t-e li4in. members o2 t-e 1-ratria be ins,ribed* and w-en t-ey
de1art li2e let t-em be erased/ #-e limit o2 marria.eable a.es 2or a
woman s-all be 2rom si:teen to twenty years at t-e lon.est92or a
man* 2rom t-irty to t-irty92i4e years) and let a woman -old o22i,e
at 2orty* and a man at t-irty years/ Let a man .o o0t to war 2rom
twenty to si:ty years* and 2or a woman* i2 t-ere a11ear any need to
ma6e 0se o2 -er in military ser4i,e* let t-e time o2 ser4i,e be
a2ter s-e s-all -a4e bro0.-t 2ort- ,-ildren 01 to 2i2ty years o2
a.e) and let re.ard be -ad to w-at is 1ossible and s0itable to ea,-/
BOOK 8II
And now* ass0min. ,-ildren o2 bot- se:es to -a4e been born* it
will be 1ro1er 2or 0s to ,onsider* in t-e ne:t 1la,e* t-eir n0rt0re
and ed0,ation) t-is ,annot be le2t alto.et-er 0nnoti,ed* and yet may
be t-o0.-t a s0bje,t 2itted rat-er 2or 1re,e1t and admonition t-an 2or
law/ In 1ri4ate li2e t-ere are many little t-in.s* not always
a11arent* arisin. o0t o2 t-e 1leas0res and 1ains and desires o2
indi4id0als* w-i,- r0n ,o0nter to t-e intention o2 t-e le.islator* and
ma6e t-e ,-ara,ters o2 t-e ,iti<ens 4ario0s and dissimilar(9t-is is an
e4il in states) 2or by reason o2 t-eir smallness and 2re;0ent
o,,0rren,e* t-ere wo0ld be an 0nseemliness and want o2 1ro1riety in
ma6in. t-em 1enal by law) and i2 made 1enal* t-ey are t-e
destr0,tion o2 t-e written law be,a0se man6ind .et t-e -abit o2
2re;0ently trans.ressin. t-e law in small matters/ #-e res0lt is
t-at yo0 ,annot le.islate abo0t t-em* and still less ,an yo0 be
silent/ I s1ea6 somew-at dar6ly* b0t I s-all endea4o0r also to brin.
my wares into t-e li.-t o2 day* 2or I a,6nowled.e t-at at 1resent
t-ere is a want o2 ,learness in w-at I am sayin./
Cleinias/ 8ery tr0e/
At-enian/ Stran.er/ Am I not ri.-t in maintainin. t-at a .ood
ed0,ation is t-at w-i,- tends most* to t-e im1ro4ement o2 mind and
body3
Cle/ 'ndo0btedly/
At-/ And not-in. ,an be 1lainer t-an t-at t-e 2airest bodies are
t-ose w-i,- .row 01 2rom in2an,y in t-e best and strai.-test manner3
Cle/ Certainly/
At-/ And do we not 20rt-er obser4e t-at t-e 2irst s-oot o2 e4ery
li4in. t-in. is by 2ar t-e .reatest and 20llest3 +any will e4en
,ontend t-at a man at twenty92i4e does not rea,- twi,e t-e -ei.-t
w-i,- -e attained at 2i4e/
Cle/ #r0e/
At-/ Well* and is not ra1id .rowt- wit-o0t 1ro1er and ab0ndant
e:er,ise t-e so0r,e endless e4ils in t-e body3
Cle/ 7es/
At-/ And t-e body s-o0ld -a4e t-e most e:er,ise w-en it re,ei4es
most no0ris-ment3
Cle/ B0t* Stran.er* are we to im1ose t-is .reat amo0nt o2 e:er,ise
01on newly9born in2ants3
At-/ !ay* rat-er on t-e bodies o2 in2ants still 0nborn/
Cle/ W-at do yo0 mean* my .ood sir3 In t-e 1ro,ess o2 .estation3
At-/ E:a,tly/ I am not at all s0r1rised t-at yo0 -a4e ne4er -eard o2
t-is 4ery 1e,0liar sort o2 .ymnasti, a11lied to s0,- little ,reat0res*
w-i,-* alt-o0.- stran.e* I will endea4o0r to e:1lain to yo0/
Cle/ By all means/
At-/ #-e 1ra,ti,e is more easy 2or 0s to 0nderstand t-an 2or yo0* by
reason o2 ,ertain am0sements w-i,- are ,arried to e:,ess by 0s at
At-ens/ !ot only boys* b0t o2ten older 1ersons* are in t-e -abit o2
6ee1in. ;0ails and ,o,6s* w-i,- t-ey train to 2i.-t one anot-er/ And
t-ey are 2ar 2rom t-in6in. t-at t-e ,ontests in w-i,- t-ey stir t-em
01 to 2i.-t wit- one anot-er are s022i,ient e:er,ise) 2or* in addition
to t-is* t-ey ,arry t-em abo0t t0,6ed beneat- t-eir arm1its* -oldin.
t-e smaller birds in t-eir -ands* t-e lar.er 0nder t-eir arms* and
.o 2or a wal6 o2 a .reat many miles 2or t-e sa6e o2 -ealt-* t-at is to
say* not t-eir own* -ealt-* b0t t-e -ealt- o2 t-e birds) w-ereby
t-ey 1ro4e to any intelli.ent 1erson* t-at all bodies are bene2ited by
s-a6in.s and mo4ements* w-en t-ey are mo4ed wit-o0t weariness* w-et-er
motion 1ro,eeds 2rom t-emsel4es* or is ,a0sed by a swin.* or at sea*
or on -orseba,6* or by ot-er bodies in w-ate4er way mo4in.* and t-at
t-0s .ainin. t-e mastery o4er 2ood and drin6* t-ey are able to
im1art bea0ty and -ealt- and stren.t-/ B0t admittin. all t-is* w-at
2ollows3 S-all we ma6e a ridi,0lo0s law t-at t-e 1re.nant woman
s-all wal6 abo0t and 2as-ion t-e embryo wit-in as we 2as-ion wa:
be2ore it -ardens* and a2ter birt- swat-e t-e in2ant 2or two years3
S011ose t-at we ,om1el n0rses* 0nder 1enalty o2 a le.al 2ine* to be
always ,arryin. t-e ,-ildren somew-ere or ot-er* eit-er to t-e
tem1les* or into t-e ,o0ntry* or to t-eir relations* -o0ses* 0ntil
t-ey are well able to stand* and to ta6e ,are t-at t-eir limbs are not
distorted by leanin. on t-em w-en t-ey are too yo0n.9t-ey s-o0ld
,ontin0e to ,arry t-em 0ntil t-e in2ant -as ,om1leted its t-ird
year) t-e n0rses s-o0ld be stron.* and t-ere s-o0ld be more t-an one
o2 t-em/ S-all t-ese be o0r r0les* and s-all we im1ose a 1enalty 2or
t-e ne.le,t o2 t-em3 !o* no) t-e 1enalty o2 w-i,- we were s1ea6in.
will 2all 01on o0r own -eads more t-an eno0.-/
Cle/ W-at 1enalty3
At-/ idi,0le* and t-e di22i,0lty o2 .ettin. t-e 2eminine and
ser4ant9li6e dis1ositions o2 t-e n0rses to ,om1ly/
Cle/ #-en w-y was t-ere any need to s1ea6 o2 t-e matter at all3
At-/ #-e reason is t-at masters and 2reemen in states* w-en t-ey
-ear o2 it* are 4ery li6ely to arri4e at a tr0e ,on4i,tion t-at
wit-o0t d0e re.0lation o2 1ri4ate li2e in ,ities* stability in t-e
layin. down o2 laws is -ardly to be e:1e,ted) and -e w-o ma6es t-is
re2le,tion may -imsel2 ado1t t-e laws j0st now mentioned* and*
ado1tin. t-em* may order -is -o0se and state well and be -a11y/
Cle/ Li6ely eno0.-/
At-/ And t-ere2ore let 0s 1ro,eed wit- o0r le.islation 0ntil we -a4e
determined t-e e:er,ises w-i,- are s0ited to t-e so0ls o2 yo0n.
,-ildren* in t-e same manner in w-i,- we -a4e be.0n to .o t-ro0.-
t-e r0les relatin. to t-eir bodies/
Cle/ By all means/
At-/ Let 0s ass0me* t-en* as a 2irst 1rin,i1le in relation bot- to
t-e body and so0l o2 4ery yo0n. ,reat0res* t-at n0rsin. and mo4in.
abo0t by day and ni.-t is .ood 2or t-em all* and t-at t-e yo0n.er t-ey
are* t-e more t-ey will need it) in2ants s-o0ld li4e* i2 t-at were
1ossible* as i2 t-ey were always ro,6in. at sea/ #-is is t-e lesson
w-i,- we may .at-er 2rom t-e e:1erien,e o2 n0rses* and li6ewise 2rom
t-e 0se o2 t-e remedy o2 motion in t-e rites o2 t-e Corybantes) 2or
w-en mot-ers want t-eir restless ,-ildren to .o to slee1 t-ey do not
em1loy rest* b0t* on t-e ,ontrary* motion9ro,6in. t-em in t-eir
arms) nor do t-ey .i4e t-em silen,e* b0t t-ey sin. to t-em and la1
t-em in sweet strains) and t-e Ba,,-i, women are ,0red o2 t-eir 2ren<y
in t-e same manner by t-e 0se o2 t-e dan,e and o2 m0si,/
Cle/ Well* Stran.er* and w-at is t-e reason o2 t-is3
At-/ #-e reason is ob4io0s/
Cle/ W-at3
At-/ #-e a22e,tion bot- o2 t-e Ba,,-antes and o2 t-e ,-ildren is
an emotion o2 2ear* w-i,- s1rin.s o0t o2 an e4il -abit o2 t-e so0l/
And w-en some one a11lies e:ternal a.itation to a22e,tions o2 t-is
sort* t-e motion ,omin. 2rom wit-o0t .ets t-e better o2 t-e terrible
and 4iolent internal one* and 1rod0,es a 1ea,e and ,alm in t-e so0l*
and ;0iets t-e restless 1al1itation o2 t-e -eart* w-i,- is a t-in.
m0,- to be desired* sendin. t-e ,-ildren to slee1* and ma6in. t-e
Ba,,-antes* alt-o0.- t-ey remain awa6e* to dan,e to t-e 1i1e wit-
t-e -el1 o2 t-e &ods to w-om t-ey o22er a,,e1table sa,ri2i,es* and
1rod0,in. in t-em a so0nd mind* w-i,- ta6es t-e 1la,e o2 t-eir 2ren<y/
And* to e:1ress w-at I mean in a word* t-ere is a .ood deal to be said
in 2a4o0r o2 t-is treatment/
Cle/ Certainly/
At-/ B0t i2 2ear -as s0,- a 1ower we o0.-t to in2er 2rom t-ese
2a,ts* t-at e4ery so0l w-i,- 2rom yo0t- 01ward -as been 2amiliar
wit- 2ears* will be made more liable to 2ear* and e4ery one will allow
t-at t-is is t-e way to 2orm a -abit o2 ,owardi,e and not o2 ,o0ra.e/
Cle/ !o do0bt/
At-/ And* on t-e ot-er -and* t-e -abit o2 o4er,omin.* 2rom o0r yo0t-
01wards* t-e 2ears and terrors w-i,- beset 0s* may be said to be an
e:er,ise o2 ,o0ra.e/
Cle/ #r0e/
At-/ And we may say t-at t-e 0se o2 e:er,ise and motion in t-e
earliest years o2 li2e .reatly ,ontrib0tes to ,reate a 1art o2
4irt0e in t-e so0l/
Cle/ @0ite tr0e/
At-/ "0rt-er* a ,-eer20l tem1er* or t-e re4erse* may be re.arded
as -a4in. m0,- to do wit- -i.- s1irit on t-e one -and* or wit-
,owardi,e on t-e ot-er/
Cle/ #o be s0re/
At-/ #-en now we m0st endea4o0r to s-ow -ow and to w-at e:tent we
may* i2 we 1lease* wit-o0t di22i,0lty im1lant eit-er ,-ara,ter in
t-e yo0n./
Cle/ Certainly/
At-/ #-ere is a ,ommon o1inion* t-at l0:0ry ma6es t-e dis1osition o2
yo0t- dis,ontented and iras,ible and 4e-emently e:,ited by tri2les)
t-at on t-e ot-er -and e:,essi4e and sa4a.e ser4it0de ma6es men mean
and abje,t* and -aters o2 t-eir 6ind* and t-ere2ore ma6es t-em
0ndesirable asso,iates/
Cle/ B0t -ow m0st t-e state ed0,ate t-ose w-o do not as yet
0nderstand t-e lan.0a.e o2 t-e ,o0ntry* and are t-ere2ore in,a1able o2
a11re,iatin. any sort o2 instr0,tion3
At-/ I will tell yo0 -ow(9E4ery animal t-at is born is wont to 0tter
some ,ry* and t-is is es1e,ially t-e ,ase wit- man* and -e is also
a22e,ted wit- t-e in,lination to wee1 more t-an any ot-er animal/
Cle/ @0ite tr0e/
At-/ %o not n0rses* w-en t-ey want to 6now w-at an in2ant desires*
j0d.e by t-ese si.ns39w-en anyt-in. is bro0.-t to t-e in2ant and -e is
silent* t-en -e is s011osed to be 1leased* b0t* w-en -e wee1s and
,ries o0t* t-en -e is not 1leased/ "or tears and ,ries are t-e
ina0s1i,io0s si.ns by w-i,- ,-ildren s-ow w-at t-ey lo4e and -ate/ !ow
t-e time w-i,- is t-0s s1ent is no less t-an t-ree years* and is a
4ery ,onsiderable 1ortion o2 li2e to be 1assed ill or well/
Cle/ #r0e/
At-/ %oes not t-e dis,ontented and 0n.ra,io0s nat0re a11ear to yo0
to be 20ll o2 lamentations and sorrows more t-an a .ood man o0.-t to
be3
Cle/ Certainly/
At-/ Well* b0t i2 d0rin. t-ese t-ree years e4ery 1ossible ,are
were ta6en t-at o0r n0rslin. s-o0ld -a4e as little o2 sorrow and 2ear*
and in .eneral o2 1ain as was 1ossible* mi.-t we not e:1e,t in early
,-ild-ood to ma6e -is so0l more .entle and ,-eer20l3
Cle/ #o be s0re* Stran.er9more es1e,ially i2 we ,o0ld 1ro,0re -im
a 4ariety o2 1leas0res/
At-/ #-ere I ,an no lon.er a.ree* Cleinias( yo0 ama<e me/ #o brin.
-im 01 in s0,- a way wo0ld be -is 0tter r0in) 2or t-e be.innin. is
always t-e most ,riti,al 1art o2 ed0,ation/ Let 0s see w-et-er I am
ri.-t/
Cle/ Pro,eed/
At-/ #-e 1oint abo0t w-i,- yo0 and I di22er is o2 .reat
im1ortan,e* and I -o1e t-at yo0* +e.ill0s* will -el1 to de,ide between
0s/ "or I maintain t-at t-e tr0e li2e s-o0ld neit-er see6 2or
1leas0res* nor* on t-e ot-er -and* entirely a4oid 1ains* b0t s-o0ld
embra,e t-e middle state* w-i,- I j0st s1o6e o2 as .entle and
beni.n* and is a state w-i,- we by some di4ine 1resa.e and ins1iration
ri.-tly as,ribe to &od/ !ow* I say* -e amon. men* too* w-o wo0ld be
di4ine o0.-t to 10rs0e a2ter t-is mean -abit9-e s-o0ld not r0s-
-eadlon. into 1leas0res* 2or -e will not be 2ree 2rom 1ains) nor
s-o0ld we allow any one* yo0n. or old* male or 2emale* to be t-0s
.i4en any more t-an o0rsel4es* and least o2 all t-e newly9born in2ant*
2or in in2an,y more t-an at any ot-er time t-e ,-ara,ter is
en.rained by -abit/ !ay* more* i2 I were not a2raid o2 a11earin. to be
ridi,0lo0s* I wo0ld say t-at a woman d0rin. -er year o2 1re.nan,y
s-o0ld o2 all women be most ,are20lly tended* and 6e1t 2rom 4iolent or
e:,essi4e 1leas0res and 1ains* and s-o0ld at t-at time ,0lti4ate
.entleness and bene4olen,e and 6indness/
Cle/ 7o0 need not* as6 +e.ill0s* Stran.er* w-i,- o2 0s -as most
tr0ly s1o6en) 2or I mysel2 a.ree t-at all men o0.-t to a4oid t-e
li2e o2 0nmin.led 1ain or 1leas0re* and 10rs0e always a middle ,o0rse/
And -a4in. s1o6en well* may I add t-at yo0 -a4e been well answered3
At-/ 8ery .ood* Cleinias) and now let 0s all t-ree ,onsider a
20rt-er 1oint/
Cle/ W-at is it3
At-/ #-at all t-e matters w-i,- we are now des,ribin. are ,ommonly
,alled by t-e .eneral name o2 0nwritten ,0stoms* and w-at are termed
t-e laws o2 o0r an,estors are all o2 similar nat0re/ And t-e
re2le,tion w-i,- lately arose in o0r minds* t-at we ,an neit-er ,all
t-ese t-in.s laws* nor yet lea4e t-em 0nmentioned* is j0sti2ied) 2or
t-ey are t-e bonds o2 t-e w-ole state* and ,ome in between t-e written
laws w-i,- are or are -erea2ter to be laid down) t-ey are j0st
an,estral ,0stoms o2 .reat anti;0ity* w-i,-* i2 t-ey are ri.-tly
ordered and made -abit0al* s-ield and 1reser4e t-e 1re4io0sly e:istin.
written law) b0t i2 t-ey de1art 2rom ri.-t and 2all into disorder*
t-en t-ey are li6e t-e 1ro1s o2 b0ilders w-i,- sli1 away o0t o2
t-eir Pla,e and ,a0se a 0ni4ersal r0in9one 1art dra.s anot-er down*
and t-e 2air s01er9str0,t0re 2alls be,a0se t-e old 2o0ndations are
0ndermined/ e2le,tin. 01on t-is* Cleinias* yo0 o0.-t to bind to.et-er
t-e new state in e4ery 1ossible way* omittin. not-in.* w-et-er .reat
or small* o2 w-at are ,alled laws or manners or 10rs0its* 2or by t-ese
means a ,ity is bo0nd to.et-er* and all t-ese t-in.s are only
lastin. w-en t-ey de1end 01on one anot-er) and* t-ere2ore* we m0st not
wonder i2 we 2ind t-at many a11arently tri2lin. ,0stoms or 0sa.es ,ome
1o0rin. in and len.t-enin. o0t o0r laws/
Cle/ 8ery tr0e( we are dis1osed to a.ree wit- yo0/
At-/ '1 to t-e a.e o2 t-ree years* w-et-er o2 boy or .irl* i2 a
1erson stri,tly ,arries o0t o0r 1re4io0s re.0lations and ma6es t-em
a 1rin,i1al aim* -e will do m0,- 2or t-e ad4anta.e o2 t-e yo0n.
,reat0res/ B0t at t-ree* 2o0r* 2i4e* and e4en si: years t-e ,-ildis-
nat0re will re;0ire s1orts) now is t-e time to .et rid o2 sel29will in
-im* 10nis-in. -im* b0t not so as to dis.ra,e -im/ We were sayin.
abo0t sla4es* t-at we o0.-t neit-er to add ins0lt to 10nis-ment so
as to an.er t-em* nor yet to lea4e t-em 0n10nis-ed lest t-ey be,ome
sel29willed) and a li6e r0le is to be obser4ed in t-e ,ase o2 t-e
2ree9born/ C-ildren at t-at a.e -a4e ,ertain nat0ral modes o2
am0sement w-i,- t-ey 2ind o0t 2or t-emsel4es w-en t-ey meet/ And all
t-e ,-ildren w-o are between t-e a.es o2 t-ree and si: o0.-t to meet
at t-e tem1les t-e 4illa.es* t-e se4eral 2amilies o2 a 4illa.e 0nitin.
on one s1ot/ #-e n0rses are to see t-at t-e ,-ildren be-a4e 1ro1erly
and orderly9t-ey t-emsel4es and all t-eir ,om1anies are to be 0nder
t-e ,ontrol o2 twel4e matrons* one 2or ea,- ,om1any* w-o are
ann0ally sele,ted to ins1e,t t-em 2rom t-e women 1re4io0sly mentioned*
Bi/e/* t-e women w-o -a4e a0t-ority o4er marria.eC* w-om t-e .0ardians
o2 t-e law a11oint/ #-ese matrons s-all be ,-osen by t-e women w-o
-a4e a0t-ority o4er marria.e* one o0t o2 ea,- tribe) all are to be
o2 t-e same a.e) and let ea,- o2 t-em* as soon as s-e is a11ointed*
-old o22i,e and .o to t-e tem1les e4ery day* 10nis-in. all
o22enders* male or 2emale* w-o are sla4es or stran.ers* by t-e -el1 o2
some o2 t-e 10bli, sla4es) b0t i2 any ,iti<en dis10tes t-e 10nis-ment*
let -er brin. -im be2ore t-e wardens o2 t-e ,ity) or* i2 t-ere be no
dis10te* let -er 10nis- -im -ersel2/ A2ter t-e a.e o2 si: years t-e
time -as arri4ed 2or t-e se1aration o2 t-e se:es9let boys li4e wit-
boys* and .irls in li6e manner wit- .irls/ !ow t-ey m0st be.in to
learn9t-e boys .oin. to tea,-ers o2 -orsemans-i1 and t-e 0se o2 t-e
bow* t-e ja4elin* and slin.* and t-e .irls too* i2 t-ey do not obje,t*
at any rate 0ntil t-ey 6now -ow to mana.e t-ese wea1ons* and
es1e,ially -ow to -andle -ea4y arms) 2or I may note* t-at t-e 1ra,ti,e
w-i,- now 1re4ails is almost 0ni4ersally mis0nderstood/
Cle/ In w-at res1e,t3
At-/ In t-at t-e ri.-t and le2t -and are s011osed to be by nat0re
di22erently s0ited 2or o0r 4ario0s 0ses o2 t-em) w-ereas no di22eren,e
is 2o0nd in t-e 0se o2 t-e 2eet and t-e lower limbs) b0t in t-e 0se o2
t-e -ands we are* as it were* maimed by t-e 2olly o2 n0rses and
mot-ers) 2or alt-o0.- o0r se4eral limbs are by nat0re balan,ed* we
,reate a di22eren,e in t-em by bad -abit/ In some ,ases t-is is o2
no ,onse;0en,e* as* 2or e:am1le* w-en we -old t-e lyre in t-e le2t
-and* and t-e 1le,tr0m in t-e ri.-t* b0t it is downri.-t 2olly to ma6e
t-e same distin,tion in ot-er ,ases/ #-e ,0stom o2 t-e S,yt-ians
1ro4es o0r error) 2or t-ey not only -old t-e bow 2rom t-em wit- t-e
le2t -and and draw t-e arrow to t-em wit- t-eir ri.-t* b0t 0se
eit-er -and 2or bot- 10r1oses/ And t-ere are many similar e:am1les
in ,-arioteerin. and ot-er t-in.s* 2rom w-i,- we may learn t-at
t-ose w-o ma6e t-e le2t side wea6er t-an t-e ri.-t a,t ,ontrary to
nat0re/ In t-e ,ase o2 t-e 1le,tr0m* w-i,- is o2 -orn only* and
similar instr0ments* as I was sayin.* it is o2 no ,onse;0en,e* b0t
ma6es a .reat di22eren,e* and may be o2 4ery .reat im1ortan,e to t-e
warrior w-o -as to 0se iron wea1ons* bows and ja4elins* and t-e
li6e) abo4e all* w-en in -ea4y armo0r* -e -as to 2i.-t a.ainst -ea4y
armo0r/ And t-ere is a 4ery .reat di22eren,e between one w-o -as
learnt and one w-o -as not* and between one w-o -as been trained in
.ymnasti, e:er,ises and one w-o -as not been/ "or as -e w-o is
1er2e,tly s6illed in t-e Pan,rati0m or bo:in. or wrestlin.* is not
0nable to 2i.-t 2rom -is le2t side* and does not lim1 and dra..le in
,on20sion w-en -is o11onent ma6es -im ,-an.e -is 1osition* so in
-ea4y9armed 2i.-tin.* and in all ot-er t-in.s i2 I am not mista6en*
t-e li6e -olds9-e w-o -as t-ese do0ble 1owers o2 atta,6 and de2en,e
o0.-t not in any ,ase to lea4e t-em eit-er 0n0sed or 0ntrained* i2
-e ,an -el1) and i2 a 1erson -ad t-e nat0re o2 &eryon or Briare0s -e
o0.-t to be able wit- -is -0ndred -ands to t-row a -0ndred darts/ !ow*
t-e ma.istrates* male and 2emale* s-o0ld see to all t-ese t-in.s*
t-e women s01erintendin. t-e n0rsin. and am0sements o2 t-e ,-ildren*
and t-e men s01erintendin. t-eir ed0,ation* t-at all o2 t-em* boys and
.irls ali6e* may be so0nd -and and 2oot* and may not* i2 t-ey ,an
-el1* s1oil t-e .i2ts o2 nat0re by bad -abits/
Ed0,ation -as two bran,-es9one o2 .ymnasti,* w-i,- is ,on,erned wit-
t-e body* and t-e ot-er o2 m0si,* w-i,- is desi.ned 2or t-e
im1ro4ement o2 t-e so0l/ And .ymnasti, -as also two bran,-es9dan,in.
and wrestlin.) and one sort o2 dan,in. imitates m0si,al re,itation*
and aims at 1reser4in. di.nity and 2reedom* t-e ot-er aims at
1rod0,in. -ealt-* a.ility* and bea0ty in t-e limbs and 1arts o2 t-e
body* .i4in. t-e 1ro1er 2le:ion and e:tension to ea,- o2 t-em* a
-armonio0s motion bein. di220sed e4eryw-ere* and 2ormin. a s0itable
a,,om1animent to t-e dan,e/ As re.ards wrestlin.* t-e tri,6s w-i,-
Antae0s and Cer,yon de4ised in t-eir systems o0t o2 a 4ain s1irit o2
,om1etition* or t-e tri,6s o2 bo:in. w-i,- E1ei0s or Amy,0s
in4ented* are 0seless and 0ns0itable 2or war* and do not deser4e to
-a4e m0,- said abo0t t-em) b0t t-e art o2 wrestlin. ere,t and
6ee1in. 2ree t-e ne,6 and -ands and sides* wor6in. wit- ener.y and
,onstan,y* wit- a ,om1osed stren.t-* and 2or t-e sa6e o2
-ealt-9t-ese are always 0se20l* and are not to be ne.le,ted* b0t to be
enjoined ali6e on masters and s,-olars* w-en we rea,- t-at 1art o2
le.islation) and we will desire t-e one to .i4e t-eir instr0,tions
2reely* and t-e ot-ers to re,ei4e t-em t-an620lly/ !or* a.ain* m0st we
omit s0itable imitations o2 war in o0r ,-or0ses) -ere in Crete yo0
-a4e t-e armed dan,es i2 t-e C0retes* and t-e La,edaemonians -a4e
t-ose o2 t-e %ios,0ri/ And o0r 4ir.in lady* deli.-tin. in t-e
am0sement o2 t-e dan,e* t-o0.-t it not 2it to am0se -ersel2 wit- em1ty
-ands) s-e m0st be ,lot-ed in a ,om1lete s0it o2 armo0r* and in t-is
attire .o t-ro0.- t-e dan,e) and yo0t-s and maidens s-o0ld in e4ery
res1e,t imitate -er* esteemin. -i.-ly t-e 2a4o0r o2 t-e &oddess*
bot- wit- a 4iew to t-e ne,essities o2 war* and to 2esti4e
o,,asions( it will be ri.-t also 2or t-e boys* 0ntil s0,- time as t-ey
.o o0t to war* to ma6e 1ro,essions and s011li,ations to all t-e &ods
in .oodly array* armed and on -orseba,6* in dan,es* and mar,-es*
2ast or slow* o22erin. 01 1rayers to t-e &ods and to t-e sons o2 &ods)
and also en.a.in. in ,ontests and 1rel0des o2 ,ontests* i2 at all*
wit- t-ese obje,ts( "or t-ese sorts o2 e:er,ises* and no ot-ers* are
0se20l bot- in 1ea,e and war* and are bene2i,ial ali6e to states and
to 1ri4ate -o0ses/ B0t ot-er labo0rs and s1orts and e:er,ises o2 t-e
body are 0nwort-y o2 2reemen* O +e.ill0s and Cleinias/
I -a4e now ,om1letely des,ribed t-e 6ind o2 .ymnasti, w-i,- I said
at 2irst o0.-t to be des,ribed) i2 yo0 6now o2 any better* will yo0
,omm0ni,ate yo0r t-o0.-ts3
Cle/ It is not easy* Stran.er* to 10t aside t-ese 1rin,i1les o2
.ymnasti, and wrestlin. and to en0n,iate better ones/
At-/ !ow we m0st say w-at -as yet to be said abo0t t-e .i2ts o2
t-e +0ses and o2 A1ollo( be2ore* we 2an,ied t-at we -ad said all*
and t-at .ymnasti, alone remained) b0t now we see ,learly w-at
1oints -a4e been omitted* and s-o0ld be 2irst 1ro,laimed) o2 t-ese*
t-en* let 0s 1ro,eed to s1ea6/
Cle/ By all means/
At-/ Let me tell yo0 on,e more9alt-o0.- yo0 -a4e -eard me say t-e
same be2ore t-at ,a0tion m0st be always e:er,ised* bot- by t-e s1ea6er
and by t-e -earer* abo0t anyt-in. t-at is 4ery sin.0lar and 0n0s0al/
"or my tale is one* w-i,- many a man wo0ld be a2raid to tell* and
yet I -a4e a ,on2iden,e w-i,- ma6es me .o on/
Cle/ W-at -a4e yo0 to say* Stran.er3
At-/ I say t-at in states .enerally no one -as obser4ed t-at t-e
1lays o2 ,-ild-ood -a4e a .reat deal to do wit- t-e 1ermanen,e or want
o2 1ermanen,e in le.islation/ "or w-en 1lays are ordered wit- a 4iew
to ,-ildren -a4in. t-e same 1lays* and am0sin. t-emsel4es a2ter t-e
same manner* and 2indin. deli.-t in t-e same 1layt-in.s* t-e more
solemn instit0tions o2 t-e state are allowed to remain 0ndist0rbed/
W-ereas i2 s1orts are dist0rbed* and inno4ations are made in t-em* and
t-ey ,onstantly ,-an.e* and t-e yo0n. ne4er s1ea6 o2 t-eir -a4in.
t-e same li6in.s* or t-e same establis-ed notions o2 .ood and bad
taste* eit-er in t-e bearin. o2 t-eir bodies or in t-eir dress* b0t -e
w-o de4ises somet-in. new and o0t o2 t-e way in 2i.0res and ,olo0rs
and t-e li6e is -eld in s1e,ial -ono0r* we may tr0ly say t-at no
.reater e4il ,an -a11en in a state) 2or -e w-o ,-an.es t-e s1orts is
se,retly ,-an.in. t-e manners o2 t-e yo0n.* and ma6in. t-e old to be
dis-ono0red amon. t-em and t-e new to be -ono0red/ And I a22irm t-at
t-ere is not-in. w-i,- is a .reater inj0ry to all states t-an sayin.
or t-in6in. t-0s/ Will yo0 -ear me tell -ow .reat I deem t-e e4il to
be3
Cle/ 7o0 mean t-e e4il o2 blamin. anti;0ity in states3
At-/ E:a,tly/
Cle/ I2 yo0 are s1ea6in. o2 t-at* yo0 will 2ind in 0s -earers w-o
are dis1osed to re,ei4e w-at yo0 say not 0n2a4o0rably b0t most
2a4o0rably/
At-/ I s-o0ld e:1e,t so/
Cle/ Pro,eed/
At-/ Well* t-en* let 0s .i4e all t-e .reater -eed to one anot-er=s
words/ #-e ar.0ment a22irms t-at any ,-an.e w-ate4er e:,e1t 2rom
e4il is t-e most dan.ero0s o2 all t-in.s) t-is is tr0e in t-e ,ase
o2 t-e seasons and o2 t-e winds* in t-e mana.ement o2 o0r bodies and
t-e -abits o2 o0r minds9tr0e o2 all t-in.s e:,e1t* as I said be2ore*
o2 t-e bad/ $e w-o loo6s at t-e ,onstit0tion o2 indi4id0als a,,0stomed
to eat any sort o2 meat* or drin6 any drin6* or to do any wor6 w-i,-
t-ey ,an .et* may see t-at t-ey are at 2irst disordered by t-em* b0t
a2terwards* as time .oes on* t-eir bodies .row ada1ted to t-em* and
t-ey learn to 6now and li6e 4ariety* and -a4e .ood -ealt- and
enjoyment o2 li2e) and i2 e4er a2terwards t-ey are ,on2ined a.ain to a
s01erior diet* at 2irst t-ey are tro0bled wit- disorders* and wit-
di22i,0lty be,ome -abit0ated to t-eir new 2ood/ A similar 1rin,i1le we
may ima.ine to -old .ood abo0t t-e minds o2 men and t-e nat0res o2
t-eir so0ls/ "or w-en t-ey -a4e been bro0.-t 01 in ,ertain laws* w-i,-
by some %i4ine Pro4iden,e -a4e remained 0n,-an.ed d0rin. lon. a.es* so
t-at no one -as any memory or tradition o2 t-eir e4er -a4in. been
ot-erwise t-an t-ey are* t-en e4ery one is a2raid and as-amed to
,-an.e t-at w-i,- is establis-ed/ #-e le.islator m0st some-ow 2ind a
way o2 im1lantin. t-is re4eren,e 2or anti;0ity* and I wo0ld 1ro1ose
t-e 2ollowin. way(9Peo1le are a1t to 2an,y* as I was sayin. be2ore*
t-at w-en t-e 1lays o2 ,-ildren are altered t-ey are merely 1lays* not
seein. t-at t-e most serio0s and detrimental ,onse;0en,es arise o0t o2
t-e ,-an.e) and t-ey readily ,om1ly wit- t-e ,-ild=s wis-es instead o2
deterrin. -im* not ,onsiderin. t-at t-ese ,-ildren w-o ma6e
inno4ations in t-eir .ames* w-en t-ey .row 01 to be men* will be
di22erent 2rom t-e last .eneration o2 ,-ildren* and* bein.
di22erent* will desire a di22erent sort o2 li2e* and 0nder t-e
in2l0en,e o2 t-is desire will want ot-er instit0tions and laws) and no
one o2 t-em re2le,ts t-at t-ere will 2ollow w-at I j0st now ,alled t-e
.reatest o2 e4ils to states/ C-an.es in bodily 2as-ions are no s0,-
serio0s e4ils* b0t 2re;0ent ,-an.es in t-e 1raise and ,ens0re o2
manners are t-e .reatest o2 e4ils* and re;0ire t-e 0tmost 1re4ision/
Cle/ #o be s0re/
At-/ And now do we still -old to o0r 2ormer assertion* t-at
r-yt-ms and m0si, in .eneral are imitations o2 .ood and e4il
,-ara,ters in men3 W-at say yo03
Cle/ #-at is t-e only do,trine w-i,- we ,an admit/
At-/ +0st we not* t-en* try in e4ery 1ossible way to 1re4ent o0r
yo0t- 2rom e4en desirin. to imitate new modes eit-er in dan,e or son.3
nor m0st any one be allowed to o22er t-em 4arieties o2 1leas0res/
Cle/ +ost tr0e/
At-/ Can any o2 0s ima.ine a better mode o2 e22e,tin. t-is obje,t
t-an t-at o2 t-e E.y1tians3
Cle/ W-at is t-eir met-od3
At-/ #o ,onse,rate e4ery sort o2 dan,e or melody/ "irst we s-o0ld
ordain 2esti4als9,al,0latin. 2or t-e year w-at t-ey o0.-t to be* and
at w-at time* and in -ono0r o2 w-at &ods* sons o2 &ods* and -eroes
t-ey o0.-t to be ,elebrated) and* in t-e ne:t 1la,e* w-at -ymns
o0.-t to be s0n. at t-e se4eral sa,ri2i,es* and wit- w-at dan,es t-e
1arti,0lar 2esti4al is to be -ono0red/ #-is -as to be arran.ed at
2irst by ,ertain 1ersons* and* w-en arran.ed* t-e w-ole assembly o2
t-e ,iti<ens are to o22er sa,ri2i,es and libations to t-e "ates and
all t-e ot-er &ods* and to ,onse,rate t-e se4eral odes to .ods and
-eroes( and i2 any one o22ers any ot-er -ymns or dan,es to any one
o2 t-e &ods* t-e 1riests and 1riestesses* a,tin. in ,on,ert wit- t-e
.0ardians o2 t-e law* s-all* wit- t-e san,tion o2 reli.ion and t-e
law* e:,l0de -im* and -e w-o is e:,l0ded* i2 -e do not s0bmit* s-all
be liable all -is li2e lon. to -a4e a s0it o2 im1iety bro0.-t
a.ainst -im by any one w-o li6es/
Cle/ 8ery .ood/
At-/ In t-e ,onsideration o2 t-is s0bje,t* let 0s remember w-at is
d0e to o0rsel4es/
Cle/ #o w-at are yo0 re2errin.3
At-/ I mean t-at any yo0n. man* and m0,- more any old one* w-en -e
sees or -ears anyt-in. stran.e or 0na,,0stomed* does not at on,e r0n
to embra,e t-e 1arado:* b0t -e stands ,onsiderin.* li6e a 1erson w-o
is at a 1la,e w-ere t-ree 1at-s meet* and does not 4ery well 6now
-is way9-e may be alone or -e may be wal6in. wit- ot-ers* and -e
will say to -imsel2 and t-em* AW-i,- is t-e way3A and will not mo4e
2orward 0ntil -e is satis2ied t-at -e is .oin. ri.-t/ And t-is is w-at
we m0st do in t-e 1resent instan,e(9A stran.e dis,0ssion on t-e
s0bje,t o2 law -as arisen* w-i,- re;0ires t-e 0tmost ,onsideration*
and we s-o0ld not at o0r a.e be too ready to s1ea6 abo0t s0,- .reat
matters* or be ,on2ident t-at we ,an say anyt-in. ,ertain all in a
moment/
Cle/ +ost tr0e/
At-/ #-en we will allow time 2or re2le,tion* and de,ide w-en we -a4e
.i4en t-e s0bje,t s022i,ient ,onsideration/ B0t t-at we may not be
-indered 2rom ,om1letin. t-e nat0ral arran.ement o2 o0r laws* let 0s
1ro,eed to t-e ,on,l0sion o2 t-em in d0e order) 2or 4ery 1ossibly*
i2 &od will* t-e e:1osition o2 t-em* w-en ,om1leted* may t-row li.-t
on o0r 1resent 1er1le:ity/
Cle/ E:,ellent* Stran.er) let 0s do as yo0 1ro1ose/
At-/ Let 0s t-en a22irm t-e 1arado: t-at strains o2 m0si, are o0r
laws >nomoi?* and t-is latter bein. t-e name w-i,- t-e an,ients .a4e
to lyri, son.s* t-ey 1robably wo0ld not -a4e 4ery m0,- obje,ted to o0r
1ro1osed a11li,ation o2 t-e word/ Some one* eit-er aslee1 or awa6e*
m0st -a4e -ad a dreamy s0s1i,ion o2 t-eir nat0re/ And let o0r de,ree
be as 2ollows(9!o one in sin.in. or dan,in. s-all o22end a.ainst
10bli, and ,onse,rated models* and t-e .eneral 2as-ion amon. t-e
yo0t-* any more t-an -e wo0ld o22end a.ainst any ot-er law/ And -e w-o
obser4es t-is law s-all be blameless) b0t -e w-o is disobedient* as
I was sayin.* s-all be 10nis-ed by t-e .0ardians o2 t-e laws* and by
t-e 1riests and 1riestesses/ S011ose t-at we ima.ine t-is to be o0r
law/
Cle/ 8ery .ood/
At-/ Can any one w-o ma6es s0,- laws es,a1e ridi,0le3 Let 0s see/
I t-in6 t-at o0r only sa2ety will be in 2irst 2ramin. ,ertain models
2or ,om1osers/ One o2 t-ese models s-all be as 2ollows(9I2 w-en a
sa,ri2i,e is .oin. on* and t-e 4i,tims are bein. b0rnt a,,ordin. to
law9i2* I say* any one w-o may be a son or brot-er* standin. by
anot-er at t-e altar and o4er t-e 4i,tims* -orribly blas1-emes* will
not -is words ins1ire des1onden,y and e4il omens and 2orebodin.s in
t-e mind o2 -is 2at-er and o2 -is ot-er 6insmen3
Cle/ O2 ,o0rse/
At-/ And t-is is j0st w-at ta6es 1la,e in almost all o0r ,ities/ A
ma.istrate o22ers a 10bli, sa,ri2i,e* and t-ere ,ome in not one b0t
many ,-or0ses* w-o ta6e 01 a 1osition a little way 2rom t-e altar* and
2rom time to time 1o0r 2ort- all sorts o2 -orrible blas1-emies on
t-e sa,red rites* e:,itin. t-e so0ls o2 t-e a0dien,e wit- words and
r-yt-ms and melodies most sorrow20l to -ear) and -e w-o at t-e
moment w-en t-e ,ity is o22erin. sa,ri2i,e ma6es t-e ,iti<ens wee1
most* ,arries away t-e 1alm o2 4i,tory/ !ow* o0.-t we not to 2orbid
s0,- strains as t-ese3 And i2 e4er o0r ,iti<ens m0st -ear s0,-
lamentations* t-en on some 0nblest and ina0s1i,io0s day let t-ere be
,-or0ses o2 2orei.n and -ired minstrels* li6e t-ose -irelin.s w-o
a,,om1any t-e de1arted at 20nerals wit- barbaro0s Carian ,-ants/
#-at is t-e sort o2 t-in. w-i,- will be a11ro1riate i2 we -a4e s0,-
strains at all) and let t-e a11arel o2 t-e sin.ers be* not ,ir,lets
and ornaments o2 .old* b0t t-e re4erse/ Eno0.- o2 all t-is/ I will
sim1ly as6 on,e more w-et-er we s-all lay down as one o2 o0r
1rin,i1les o2 son.9
Cle/ W-at3
At-/ #-at we s-o0ld a4oid e4ery word o2 e4il omen) let t-at 6ind
o2 son. w-i,- is o2 .ood omen be -eard e4eryw-ere and always in o0r
state/ I need -ardly as6 a.ain* b0t s-all ass0me t-at yo0 a.ree wit-
me/
Cle/ By all means) t-at law is a11ro4ed by t-e s022ra.es o2 0s all/
At-/ B0t w-at s-all be o0r ne:t m0si,al law or ty1e3 O0.-t not
1rayers to be o22ered 01 to t-e &ods w-en we sa,ri2i,e3
Cle/ Certainly/
At-/ And o0r t-ird law* i2 I am not mista6en* will be to t-e
e22e,t t-at o0r 1oets* 0nderstandin. 1rayers to be re;0ests w-i,- we
ma6e to t-e &ods* will ta6e es1e,ial -eed t-at t-ey do not by
mista6e as6 2or e4il instead o2 .ood/ #o ma6e s0,- a 1rayer wo0ld
s0rely be too ridi,0lo0s/
Cle/ 8ery tr0e/
At-/ Were we not a little w-ile a.o ;0ite ,on4in,ed t-at no sil4er
or .olden Pl0t0s s-o0ld dwell in o0r state3
Cle/ #o be s0re/
At-/ And w-at -as it been t-e obje,t o2 o0r ar.0ment to s-ow3 %id we
not im1ly t-at t-e 1oets are not always ;0ite ,a1able o2 6nowin.
w-at is .ood or e4il3 And i2 one o2 t-em 0tters a mista6en 1rayer in
son. or words* -e will ma6e o0r ,iti<ens 1ray 2or t-e o11osite o2 w-at
is .ood in matters o2 t-e -i.-est im1ort) t-an w-i,-* as I was sayin.*
t-ere ,an be 2ew .reater mista6es/ S-all we t-en 1ro1ose as one o2 o0r
laws and models relatin. to t-e +0ses9
Cle/ W-at39will yo0 e:1lain t-e law more 1re,isely3
At-/ S-all we ma6e a law t-at t-e 1oet s-all ,om1ose not-in.
,ontrary to t-e ideas o2 t-e law20l* or j0st* or bea0ti20l* or .ood*
w-i,- are allowed in t-e state3 nor s-all -e be 1ermitted to
,omm0ni,ate -is ,om1ositions to any 1ri4ate indi4id0als* 0ntil -e
s-all -a4e s-own t-em to t-e a11ointed j0d.es and t-e .0ardians o2 t-e
law* and t-ey are satis2ied wit- t-em/ As to t-e 1ersons w-om we
a11oint to be o0r le.islators abo0t m0si, and as to t-e dire,tor o2
ed0,ation* t-ese -a4e been already indi,ated/ On,e more t-en* as I
-a4e as6ed more t-an on,e* s-all t-is be o0r t-ird law* and ty1e*
and model9W-at do yo0 say3
Cle/ Let it be so* by all means/
At-/ #-en it will be 1ro1er to -a4e -ymns and 1raises o2 t-e &ods*
intermin.led wit- 1rayers) and a2ter t-e &ods 1rayers and 1raises
s-o0ld be o22ered in li6e manner to demi.ods and -eroes* s0itable to
t-eir se4eral ,-ara,ters/
Cle/ Certainly/
At-/ In t-e ne:t 1la,e t-ere will be no obje,tion to a law* t-at
,iti<ens w-o are de1arted and -a4e done .ood and ener.eti, deeds*
eit-er wit- t-eir so0ls or wit- t-eir bodies* and -a4e been obedient
to t-e laws* s-o0ld re,ei4e e0lo.ies) t-is will be 4ery 2ittin./
Cle/ @0ite tr0e/
At-/ B0t to -ono0r wit- -ymns and 1ane.yri,s t-ose w-o are still
ali4e is not sa2e) a man s-o0ld r0n -is ,o0rse* and ma6e a 2air
endin.* and t-en we will 1raise -im) and let 1raise be .i4en e;0ally
to women as well as men w-o -a4e been distin.0is-ed in 4irt0e/ #-e
order o2 son.s and dan,es s-all be as 2ollows(9#-ere are many
an,ient m0si,al ,om1ositions and dan,es w-i,- are e:,ellent* and
2rom t-ese t-e newly92o0nded ,ity may 2reely sele,t w-at is 1ro1er and
s0itable) and t-ey s-all ,-oose j0d.es o2 not less t-an 2i2ty years o2
a.e* w-o s-all ma6e t-e sele,tion* and any o2 t-e old 1oems w-i,- t-ey
deem s022i,ient t-ey s-all in,l0de) any t-at are de2i,ient or
alto.et-er 0ns0itable* t-ey s-all eit-er 0tterly t-row aside* or
e:amine and amend* ta6in. into t-eir ,o0nsel 1oets and m0si,ians*
and ma6in. 0se o2 t-eir 1oeti,al .eni0s) b0t e:1lainin. to t-em t-e
wis-es o2 t-e le.islator in order t-at t-ey may re.0late dan,in.*
m0si,* and all ,-oral strains* a,,ordin. to t-e mind o2 t-e j0d.es)
and not allowin. t-em to ind0l.e* e:,e1t in some 2ew matters* t-eir
indi4id0al 1leas0res and 2an,ies/ !ow t-e irre.0lar strain o2 m0si, is
always made ten t-o0sand times better by attainin. to law and order*
and reje,tin. t-e -oneyed +0se9not -owe4er t-at we mean w-olly to
e:,l0de 1leas0re* w-i,- is t-e ,-ara,teristi, o2 all m0si,/ And i2 a
man be bro0.-t 01 2rom ,-ild-ood to t-e a.e o2 dis,retion and mat0rity
in t-e 0se o2 t-e orderly and se4ere m0si,* w-en -e -ears t-e o11osite
-e detests it* and ,alls it illiberal) b0t i2 trained in t-e sweet and
40l.ar m0si,* -e deems t-e se4erer 6ind ,old and dis1leasin./ So t-at*
as I was sayin. be2ore* w-ile -e w-o -ears t-em .ains no more 1leas0re
2rom t-e one t-an 2rom t-e ot-er* t-e one -as t-e ad4anta.e o2
ma6in. t-ose w-o are trained in it better men* w-ereas t-e ot-er ma6es
t-em worse/
Cle/ 8ery tr0e/
At-/ A.ain* we m0st distin.0is- and determine on some .eneral
1rin,i1le w-at son.s are s0itable to women* and w-at to men* and
m0st assi.n to t-em t-eir 1ro1er melodies and r-yt-ms/ It is
s-o,6in. 2or a w-ole -armony to be in-armoni,al* or 2or a r-yt-m to be
0nr-yt-mi,al* and t-is will -a11en w-en t-e melody is ina11ro1riate to
t-em/ And t-ere2ore t-e le.islator m0st assi.n to t-ese also t-eir
2orms/ !ow bot- se:es -a4e melodies and r-yt-ms w-i,- o2 ne,essity
belon. to t-em) and t-ose o2 women are ,learly eno0.- indi,ated by
t-eir nat0ral di22eren,e/ #-e .rand* and t-at w-i,- tends to
,o0ra.e* may be 2airly ,alled manly) b0t t-at w-i,- in,lines to
moderation and tem1eran,e* may be de,lared bot- in law and in ordinary
s1ee,- to be t-e more womanly ;0ality/ #-is* t-en* will be t-e .eneral
order o2 t-em/
Let 0s now s1ea6 o2 t-e manner o2 tea,-in. and im1artin. t-em* and
t-e 1ersons to w-om* and t-e time w-en* t-ey are se4erally to be
im1arted/ As t-e s-i1wri.-t 2irst lays down t-e lines o2 t-e 6eel* and
t-0s* as it were* draws t-e s-i1 in o0tline* so do I see6 to
distin.0is- t-e 1atterns o2 li2e* and lay down t-eir 6eels a,,ordin.
to t-e nat0re o2 di22erent men=s so0ls) see6in. tr0ly to ,onsider by
w-at means* and in w-at ways* we may .o t-ro0.- t-e 4oya.e o2 li2e
best/ !ow -0man a22airs are -ardly wort- ,onsiderin. in earnest* and
yet we m0st be in earnest abo0t t-em9a sad ne,essity ,onstrains 0s/
And -a4in. .ot t-0s 2ar* t-ere will be a 2itness in o0r ,om1letin. t-e
matter* i2 we ,an only 2ind some s0itable met-od o2 doin. so/ B0t w-at
do I mean3 Some one may as6 t-is 4ery ;0estion* and ;0ite ri.-tly*
too/
Cle/ Certainly/
At-/ I say t-at abo0t serio0s matters a man s-o0ld be serio0s* and
abo0t a matter w-i,- is not serio0s -e s-o0ld not be* serio0s) and
t-at &od is t-e nat0ral and wort-y obje,t o2 o0r most serio0s and
blessed endea4o0rs* 2or man* as I said be2ore* is made to be t-e
1layt-in. o2 &od* and t-is* tr0ly ,onsidered* is t-e best o2 -im)
w-ere2ore also e4ery man and woman s-o0ld wal6 serio0sly* and 1ass
li2e in t-e noblest o2 1astimes* and be o2 anot-er mind 2rom w-at t-ey
are at 1resent/
Cle/ In w-at res1e,t3
At-/ At 1resent t-ey t-in6 t-at t-eir serio0s s0its s-o0ld be 2or
t-e sa6e o2 t-eir s1orts* 2or t-ey deem war a serio0s/ 10rs0it*
w-i,- m0st be mana.ed well 2or t-e sa6e o2 1ea,e) b0t t-e tr0t- is*
t-at t-ere neit-er is* nor -as been* nor e4er will be* eit-er
am0sement or instr0,tion in any de.ree wort-* s1ea6in. o2 in war*
w-i,- is ne4ert-eless deemed by 0s to be t-e most serio0s o2 o0r
10rs0its/ And t-ere2ore* as we say* e4ery one o2 0s s-o0ld li4e t-e
li2e o2 1ea,e as lon. and as well as -e ,an/ And w-at is t-e ri.-t way
o2 li4in.3 Are we to li4e in s1orts always3 I2 so* in w-at 6ind o2
s1orts3 We o0.-t to li4e sa,ri2i,in.* and sin.in.* and dan,in.* and
t-en a man will be able to 1ro1itiate t-e &ods* and to de2end
-imsel2 a.ainst -is enemies and ,on;0er t-em in battle/ #-e ty1e o2
son. or dan,e by w-i,- -e will 1ro1itiate t-em -as been des,ribed* and
t-e 1at-s alon. w-i,- -e is to 1ro,eed -a4e been ,0t 2or -im/ $e
will .o 2orward in t-e s1irit o2 t-e 1oet(
#elema,-0s* some t-in.s t-o0 wilt t-ysel2 2ind in t-y -eart* b0t
ot-er t-in.s &od will s0..est) 2or I deem t-at t-o0 wast not bro0.-t
01 wit-o0t t-e will o2 t-e &ods/
And t-is o0.-t to be t-e 4iew o2 o0r al0mni) t-ey o0.-t to t-in6
t-at w-at -as been said is eno0.- 2or t-em* and t-at any ot-er
t-in.s t-eir &eni0s and &od will s0..est to t-em9-e will tell t-em
to w-om* and w-en* and to w-at &ods se4erally t-ey are to sa,ri2i,e
and 1er2orm dan,es* and -ow t-ey may 1ro1itiate t-e deities* and
li4e a,,ordin. to t-e a11ointment o2 nat0re) bein. 2or t-e most 1art
1011ets* b0t -a4in. some little s-are o2 reality/
+e.ill0s/ 7o0 -a4e a low o1inion o2 man6ind* Stran.er/
At-/ !ay* +e.ill0s* be not ama<ed* b0t 2or.i4e me(9I was ,om1arin.
t-em wit- t-e &ods) and 0nder t-at 2eelin. I s1o6e/ Let 0s .rant* i2
yo0 wis-* t-at t-e -0man ra,e is not to be des1ised* b0t is wort-y
o2 some ,onsideration/
!e:t 2ollow t-e b0ildin.s 2or .ymnasia and s,-ools o1en to all)
t-ese are to be in t-ree 1la,es in t-e midst o2 t-e ,ity) and
o0tside t-e ,ity and in t-e s0rro0ndin. ,o0ntry* also in t-ree 1la,es*
t-ere s-all be s,-ools 2or -orse e:er,ise* and lar.e .ro0nds
arran.ed wit- a 4iew to ar,-ery and t-e t-rowin. o2 missiles* at w-i,-
yo0n. men may learn and 1ra,tise/ O2 t-ese mention -as already been
made* and i2 t-e mention be not s022i,iently e:1li,it* let 0s s1ea6*
20rt-er o2 t-em and embody t-em in laws/ In t-ese se4eral s,-ools
let t-ere be dwellin.s 2or tea,-ers* w-o s-all be bro0.-t 2rom 2orei.n
1arts by 1ay* and let t-em tea,- t-ose w-o attend t-e s,-ools t-e
art o2 war and t-e art o2 m0si,* and t-e ,-ildren s-all ,ome not
only i2 t-eir 1arents 1lease* b0t i2 t-ey do not 1lease) t-ere s-all
be ,om10lsory ed0,ation* as t-e sayin. is* o2 all and s0ndry* as 2ar
t-is is 1ossible) and t-e 101ils s-all be re.arded as belon.in. to t-e
state rat-er t-an to t-eir 1arents/ +y law wo0ld a11ly to 2emales as
well as males) t-ey s-all bot- .o t-ro0.- t-e same e:er,ises/ I assert
wit-o0t 2ear o2 ,ontradi,tion t-at .ymnasti, and -orsemans-i1 are as
s0itable to women as to men/ O2 t-e tr0t- o2 t-is I am 1ers0aded
2rom an,ient tradition* and at t-e 1resent day t-ere are said to be
,o0ntless myriads o2 women in t-e nei.-bo0r-ood o2 t-e Bla,6 Sea*
,alled Sa0romatides* w-o not only ride on -orseba,6 li6e men* b0t -a4e
enjoined 01on t-em t-e 0se o2 bows and ot-er wea1ons e;0ally wit-
t-e men/ And I 20rt-er a22irm* t-at i2 t-ese t-in.s are 1ossible*
not-in. ,an be more abs0rd t-an t-e 1ra,ti,e w-i,- 1re4ails in o0r own
,o0ntry* o2 men and women not 2ollowin. t-e same 10rs0its wit- all
t-eir stren.t- and wit- one mind* 2or t-0s t-e state* instead o2 bein.
a w-ole* is red0,ed to a -al2* b0t -as t-e same im1osts to 1ay and t-e
same toils to 0nder.o) and w-at ,an be a .reater mista6e 2or any
le.islator to ma6e t-an t-is3
Cle/ 8ery tr0e) yet m0,- o2 w-at -as been asserted by 0s* Stran.er
is ,ontrary to t-e ,0stom o2 states) still* in sayin. t-at t-e
dis,o0rse s-o0ld be allowed to 1ro,eed* and t-at w-en t-e dis,0ssion
is ,om1leted* we s-o0ld ,-oose w-at seems best* yo0 s1o6e 4ery
1ro1erly* and I now 2eel ,om10n,tion 2or w-at I -a4e said/ #ell me*
t-en* w-at yo0 wo0ld ne:t wis- to say/
At-/ I s-o0ld wis- to say* Cleinias* as I said be2ore* t-at i2 t-e
1ossibility o2 t-ese t-in.s were not s022i,iently 1ro4en in 2a,t* t-en
t-ere mi.-t be an obje,tion to t-e ar.0ment* b0t t-e 2a,t bein. as I
-a4e said* -e w-o reje,ts t-e law m0st 2ind some ot-er .ro0nd o2
obje,tion) and* 2ailin. t-is* o0r e:-ortation will still -old .ood*
nor will any one deny t-at women o0.-t to s-are as 2ar as 1ossible
in ed0,ation and in ot-er ways wit- men/ "or ,onsider)9i2 women do not
s-are in t-eir w-ole li2e wit- men* t-en t-ey m0st -a4e some ot-er
order o2 li2e/
Cle/ Certainly/
At-/ And w-at arran.ement o2 li2e to be 2o0nd anyw-ere is 1re2erable
to t-is ,omm0nity w-i,- we are now assi.nin. to t-em3 S-all we
1re2er t-at w-i,- is ado1ted by t-e #-ra,ians and many ot-er ra,es w-o
0se t-eir women to till t-e .ro0nd and to be s-e1-erds o2 t-eir
-erds and 2lo,6s* and to minister to t-em li6e sla4es39Or s-all we
do as we and 1eo1le in o0r 1art o2 t-e world do9.ettin. to.et-er* as
t-e 1-rase is* all o0r .oods and ,-attels into one dwellin.* we
entr0st t-em to o0r women* w-o are t-e stewards o2 t-em* and w-o
also 1reside o4er t-e s-0ttles and t-e w-ole art o2 s1innin.3 Or s-all
we ta6e a middle ,o0rse* in La,edaemon* +e.ill0s9lettin. t-e .irls
s-are in .ymnasti, and m0si,* w-ile t-e .rown901 women* no lon.er
em1loyed in s1innin. wool* are -ard at wor6 wea4in. t-e web o2 li2e*
w-i,- will be no ,-ea1 or mean em1loyment* and in t-e d0ty o2
ser4in. and ta6in. ,are o2 t-e -o0se-old and brin.in. 01 ,-ildren*
in w-i,- t-ey will obser4e a sort o2 mean* not 1arti,i1atin. in t-e
toils o2 war) and i2 t-ere were any ne,essity t-at t-ey s-o0ld 2i.-t
2or t-eir ,ity and 2amilies* 0nli6e t-e Ama<ons* t-ey wo0ld be
0nable to ta6e 1art in ar,-ery or any ot-er s6illed 0se o2 missiles*
nor ,o0ld t-ey* a2ter t-e e:am1le o2 t-e &oddess* ,arry s-ield or
s1ear* or stand 01 nobly 2or t-eir ,o0ntry w-en it was bein.
destroyed* and stri6e terror into t-eir enemies* i2 only be,a0se
t-ey were seen in re.0lar order3 Li4in. as t-ey do* t-ey wo0ld ne4er
dare at all to imitate t-e Sa0romatides* w-o* w-en ,om1ared wit-
ordinary women* wo0ld a11ear to be li6e men/ Let -im w-o will*
1raise yo0r le.islators* b0t I m0st say w-at I t-in6/ #-e le.islator
o0.-t to be w-ole and 1er2e,t* and not -al2 a man only) -e o0.-t not
to let t-e 2emale se: li4e so2tly and waste money and -a4e no order o2
li2e* w-ile -e ta6es t-e 0tmost ,are o2 t-e male se:* and lea4es
-al2 o2 li2e only blest wit- -a11iness* w-en -e mi.-t -a4e made t-e
w-ole state -a11y/
+e./ W-at s-all we do* Cleinias3 S-all we allow a stran.er to r0n
down S1arta in t-is 2as-ion3
Cle/ 7es) 2or as we -a4e .i4en -im liberty o2 s1ee,- we m0st let -im
.o on 0ntil we -a4e 1er2e,ted t-e wor6 o2 le.islation/
+e./ 8ery tr0e/
At-/ #-en now I may 1ro,eed3
Cle/ By all means/
At-/ W-at will be t-e manner o2 li2e amon. men w-o may be s011osed
to -a4e t-eir 2ood and ,lot-in. 1ro4ided 2or t-em in moderation* and
w-o -a4e entr0sted t-e 1ra,ti,e o2 t-e arts to ot-ers* and w-ose
-0sbandry* ,ommitted to sla4es 1ayin. a 1art o2 t-e 1rod0,e* brin.s
t-em a ret0rn s022i,ient 2or men li4in. tem1erately) w-o* moreo4er*
-a4e ,ommon tables in w-i,- t-e men are 1la,ed a1art* and near t-em
are t-e ,ommon tables o2 t-eir 2amilies* o2 t-eir da0.-ters and
mot-ers* w-i,- day by day* t-e o22i,ers* male and 2emale* are to
ins1e,t9t-ey s-all see to t-e be-a4io0r o2 t-e ,om1any* and so dismiss
t-em) a2ter w-i,- t-e 1residin. ma.istrate and -is attendants s-all
-ono0r wit- libations t-ose &ods to w-om t-at day and ni.-t are
dedi,ated* and t-en .o -ome3 #o men w-ose li4es are t-0s ordered* is
t-ere no wor6 remainin. to be done w-i,- is ne,essary and 2ittin.* b0t
s-all ea,- one o2 t-em li4e 2attenin. li6e a beast3 S0,- a li2e is
neit-er j0st nor -ono0rable* nor ,an -e w-o li4es it 2ail o2 meetin.
-is d0e) and t-e d0e reward o2 t-e idle 2atted beast is t-at -e s-o0ld
be torn in 1ie,es by some ot-er 4aliant beast w-ose 2atness is worn
down by bra4e deeds and toil/ #-ese re.0lations* i2 we d0ly ,onsider
t-em* will ne4er be e:a,tly ,arried into e:e,0tion 0nder 1resent
,ir,0mstan,es* nor as lon. as women and ,-ildren and -o0ses and all
ot-er t-in.s are t-e 1ri4ate 1ro1erty o2 indi4id0als) b0t i2 we ,an
attain t-e se,ond9best 2orm o2 1olity* we s-all be 4ery well o22/
And to men li4in. 0nder t-is se,ond 1olity t-ere remains a wor6 to
be a,,om1lis-ed w-i,- is 2ar 2rom bein. small or insi.ni2i,ant* b0t is
t-e .reatest o2 all wor6s* and ordained by t-e a11ointment o2
ri.-teo0s law/ "or t-e li2e w-i,- may be tr0ly said to be ,on,erned
wit- t-e 4irt0e o2 body and so0l is twi,e* or more t-an twi,e* as 20ll
o2 toil and tro0ble as t-e 10rs0it a2ter Pyt-ian and Olym1i,
4i,tories* w-i,- debars a man 2rom e4ery em1loyment o2 li2e/ "or t-ere
o0.-t to be no bye9wor6 inter2erin. wit- t-e .reater wor6 o2 1ro4idin.
t-e ne,essary e:er,ise and no0ris-ment 2or t-e body* and instr0,tion
and ed0,ation 2or t-e so0l/ !i.-t and day are not lon. eno0.- 2or
t-e a,,om1lis-ment o2 t-eir 1er2e,tion and ,ons0mmation) and t-ere2ore
to t-is end all 2reemen o0.-t to arran.e t-e way in w-i,- t-ey will
s1end t-eir time d0rin. t-e w-ole ,o0rse o2 t-e day* 2rom mornin. till
e4enin. and 2rom e4enin. till t-e mornin. o2 t-e ne:t s0nrise/ #-ere
may seem to be some im1ro1riety in t-e le.islator determinin. min0tely
t-e n0mberless details o2 t-e mana.ement o2 t-e -o0se* in,l0din.
s0,- 1arti,0lars as t-e d0ty o2 wa6e20lness in t-ose w-o are to be
1er1et0al wat,-men o2 t-e w-ole ,ity) 2or t-at any ,iti<en s-o0ld
,ontin0e d0rin. t-e w-ole o2 any ni.-t in slee1* instead o2 bein. seen
by all -is ser4ants* always t-e 2irst to awa6e and .et 019t-is*
w-et-er t-e re.0lation is to be ,alled a law or only a 1ra,ti,e*
s-o0ld be deemed base and 0nwort-y o2 a 2reeman) also t-at t-e
mistress o2 t-e -o0se s-o0ld be awa6ened by -er -andmaidens instead o2
-ersel2 2irst awa6enin. t-em* is w-at t-e sla4es* male and 2emale* and
t-e ser4in.9boys* and* i2 t-at were 1ossible* e4erybody and e4eryt-in.
in t-e -o0se s-o0ld re.ard as base/ I2 t-ey rise early* t-ey may all
o2 t-em do m0,- o2 t-eir 10bli, and o2 t-eir -o0se-old b0siness* as
ma.istrates in t-e ,ity* and masters and mistresses in t-eir 1ri4ate
-o0ses* be2ore t-e s0n is 01/ +0,- slee1 is not re;0ired by nat0re*
eit-er 2or o0r so0ls or bodies* or 2or t-e a,tions w-i,- t-ey 1er2orm/
"or no one w-o is aslee1 is .ood 2or anyt-in.* any more t-an i2 -e
were dead) b0t -e o2 0s w-o -as t-e most re.ard 2or li2e and reason
6ee1s awa6e as lon. -e ,an* reser4in. only so m0,- time 2or slee1 as
is e:1edient 2or -ealt-) and m0,- slee1 is not re;0ired* i2 t-e
-abit o2 moderation be on,e ri.-tly 2ormed/ +a.istrates in states
w-o 6ee1 awa6e at ni.-t are terrible to t-e bad* w-et-er enemies or
,iti<ens* and are -ono0red and re4eren,ed by t-e j0st and tem1erate*
and are 0se20l to t-emsel4es and to t-e w-ole state/
A ni.-t w-i,- is 1assed in s0,- a manner* in addition to all t-e
abo4e9mentioned ad4anta.es* in20ses a sort o2 ,o0ra.e into t-e minds
o2 t-e ,iti<ens/ W-en t-e day brea6s* t-e time -as arri4ed 2or yo0t-
to .o to t-eir s,-oolmasters/ !ow neit-er s-ee1 nor any ot-er
animals ,an li4e wit-o0t a s-e1-erd* nor ,an ,-ildren be le2t
wit-o0t t0tors* or sla4es wit-o0t masters/ And o2 all animals t-e
boy is t-e most 0nmana.eable* inasm0,- as -e -as t-e 2o0ntain o2
reason in -im not yet re.0lated) -e is t-e most insidio0s*
s-ar19witted* and ins0bordinate o2 animals/ W-ere2ore -e m0st be bo0nd
wit- many bridles) in t-e 2irst 1la,e* w-en -e .ets away 2rom
mot-ers and n0rses* -e m0st be 0nder t-e mana.ement o2 t0tors on
a,,o0nt o2 -is ,-ildis-ness and 2oolis-ness) t-en* a.ain* bein. a
2reeman* -e m0st be ,ontrolled by tea,-ers* no matter w-at t-ey tea,-*
and by st0dies) b0t -e is also a sla4e* and in t-at re.ard any 2reeman
w-o ,omes in -is way may 10nis- -im and -is t0tor and -is
instr0,tor* i2 any o2 t-em does anyt-in. wron.) and -e w-o ,omes
a,ross -im and does not in2li,t 01on -im t-e 10nis-ment w-i,- -e
deser4es* s-all in,0r t-e .reatest dis.ra,e) and let t-e .0ardian o2
t-e law* w-o is t-e dire,tor o2 ed0,ation* see to -im w-o ,omin. in
t-e way o2 t-e o22en,es w-i,- we -a4e mentioned* does not ,-astise
t-em w-en -e o0.-t* or ,-astises t-em in a way w-i,- -e o0.-t not) let
-im 6ee1 a s-ar1 loo69o0t* and ta6e es1e,ial ,are o2 t-e trainin. o2
o0r ,-ildren* dire,tin. t-eir nat0res* and always t0rnin. t-em to .ood
a,,ordin. to t-e law/
B0t -ow ,an o0r law s022i,iently train t-e dire,tor o2 ed0,ation/
-imsel2) 2or as yet all -as been im1er2e,t* and not-in. -as been
said eit-er ,lear or satis2a,tory3 !ow* as 2ar as 1ossible* t-e law
o0.-t to lea4e not-in. to -im* b0t to e:1lain e4eryt-in.* t-at -e
may be an inter1reter and t0tor to ot-ers/ Abo0t dan,es and m0si,
and ,-oral strains* I -a4e already s1o6en bot- to t-e ,-ara,ter o2 t-e
sele,tion o2 t-em* and t-e manner in w-i,- t-ey are to be amended
and ,onse,rated/ B0t we -a4e not as yet s1o6en* O ill0strio0s .0ardian
o2 ed0,ation* o2 t-e manner in w-i,- yo0r 101ils are to 0se t-ose
strains w-i,- are written in 1rose* alt-o0.- yo0 -a4e been in2ormed
w-at martial strains t-ey are to learn and 1ra,tise) w-at relates in
t-e 2irst 1la,e to t-e learnin. o2 letters* and se,ondly* to t-e lyre*
and also to ,al,0lation* w-i,-* as we were sayin.* is need20l 2or t-em
all to learn* and any ot-er t-in.s w-i,- are re;0ired wit- a 4iew to
war and t-e mana.ement o2 -o0se and ,ity* and* loo6in. to t-e same
obje,t* w-at is 0se20l in t-e re4ol0tions o2 t-e -ea4enly bodies9t-e
stars and s0n and moon* and t-e 4ario0s re.0lations abo0t t-ese
matters w-i,- are ne,essary 2or t-e w-ole state9I am s1ea6in. o2 t-e
arran.ements o2) days in 1eriods o2 mont-s* and o2 mont-s in years*
w-i,- are to be obser4ed* in order t-at seasons and sa,ri2i,es and
2esti4als may -a4e t-eir re.0lar and nat0ral order* and 6ee1 t-e
,ity ali4e and awa6e* t-e &ods re,ei4in. t-e -ono0rs d0e to t-em*
and men -a4in. a better 0nderstandin. abo0t t-em( all t-ese t-in.s*
O my 2riend* -a4e not yet been s022i,iently de,lared to yo0 by t-e
le.islator/ Attend* t-en* to w-at I am now .oin. to say(9We were
tellin. yo0* in t-e 2irst 1la,e* t-at yo0 were not s022i,iently
in2ormed abo0t letters* and t-e obje,tion was to t-is e22e,t9t-at
yo0 were ne4er told w-et-er -e w-o was meant to be a res1e,table
,iti<en s-o0ld a11ly -imsel2 in detail to t-at sort o2 learnin.* or
not a11ly -imsel2 at all) and t-e same remar6 -olds .ood o2 t-e
st0dy o2 t-e lyre/ B0t now we say t-at -e o0.-t to attend to t-em/ A
2air time 2or a boy o2 ten years old to s1end in letters is t-ree
years) t-e a.e o2 t-irteen is t-e 1ro1er time 2or -im to be.in to
-andle t-e lyre* and -e may ,ontin0e at t-is 2or anot-er t-ree
years* neit-er more nor less* and w-et-er -is 2at-er or -imsel2 li6e
or disli6e t-e st0dy* -e is not to be allowed to s1end more or less
time in learnin. m0si, t-an t-e law allows/ And let -im w-o disobeys
t-e law be de1ri4ed o2 t-ose yo0t-20l -ono0rs o2 w-i,- we s-all
-erea2ter s1ea6/ $ear* -owe4er* 2irst o2 all* w-at t-e yo0n. o0.-t
to learn in t-e early years o2 li2e* and w-at t-eir instr0,tors
o0.-t to tea,- t-em/ #-ey o0.-t to be o,,01ied wit- t-eir letters
0ntil t-ey are to read and write) b0t t-e a,;0isition o2 1er2e,t
bea0ty or ;0i,6ness in writini.* i2 nat0re -as not stim0lated t-em
to a,;0ire t-ese a,,om1lis-ments in t-e .i4en n0mber o2 years* t-ey
s-o0ld let alone/ And as to t-e learnin. o2 ,om1ositions ,ommitted
to writin. w-i,- are not set to t-e lyre* w-et-er metri,al or
wit-o0t r-yt-mi,al di4isions* ,om1ositions in 1rose* as t-ey are
termed* -a4in. no r-yt-m or -armony9seein. -ow dan.ero0s are t-e
writin.s -anded down to 0s by many writers o2 t-is ,lass9w-at will yo0
do wit- t-em* O most e:,ellent .0ardians o2 t-e law3 or -ow ,an t-e
law.i4er ri.-tly dire,t yo0 abo0t t-em3 I belie4e t-at -e will be in
.reat di22i,0lty/
Cle/ W-at tro0bles yo0* Stran.er3 and w-y are yo0 so 1er1le:ed in
yo0r mind3
At-/ 7o0 nat0rally as6* Cleinias* and to yo0 and +e.ill0s* w-o are
my 1artners in t-e wor6 o2 le.islation* I m0st state t-e more
di22i,0lt as well as t-e easier 1arts o2 t-e tas6/
Cle/ #o w-at do yo0 re2er in t-is instan,e3
At-/ I will tell yo0/ #-ere is a di22i,0lty in o11osin. many myriads
o2 mo0t-s/
Cle/ Well* and -a4e we not already o11osed t-e 1o10lar 4oi,e in many
im1ortant ena,tments3
At-/ #-at is ;0ite tr0e) and yo0 mean to im1ly* t-at t-e road
w-i,- we are ta6in. may be disa.reeable to some b0t is a.reeable to as
many ot-ers* or i2 not to as many* at any rate to 1ersons not in2erior
to t-e ot-ers* and in ,om1any wit- t-em yo0 bid me* at w-ate4er
ris6* to 1ro,eed alon. t-e 1at- o2 le.islation w-i,- -as o1ened o0t o2
o0r 1resent dis,o0rse* and to be o2 .ood ,-eer* and not to 2aint/
Cle/ Certainly/
At-/ And I do not 2aint) I say* indeed* t-at we -a4e a .reat many
1oets writin. in -e:ameter* trimeter* and all sorts o2 meas0res9some
w-o are serio0s* ot-ers w-o aim only at raisin. a la0.-9and all
man6ind de,lare t-at t-e yo0t- w-o are ri.-tly ed0,ated s-o0ld be
bro0.-t 01 in t-em and sat0rated wit- t-em) some insist t-at t-ey
s-o0ld be ,onstantly -earin. t-em read alo0d* and always learnin.
t-em* so as to .et by -eart entire 1oets) w-ile ot-ers sele,t ,-oi,e
1assa.es and lon. s1ee,-es* and ma6e ,om1endi0ms o2 t-em* sayin.
t-at t-ese o0.-t to be ,ommitted to memory* i2 a man is to be made
.ood and wise by e:1erien,e and learnin. o2 many t-in.s/ And yo0
want me now to tell t-em 1lainly in w-at t-ey are ri.-t and in w-at
t-ey are wron./
Cle/ 7es* I do/
At-/ B0t -ow ,an I in one word ri.-tly ,om1re-end all o2 t-em3 I am
o2 o1inion* and* i2 I am not mista6en* t-ere is a .eneral a.reement*
t-at e4ery one o2 t-ese 1oets -as said many t-in.s well and many
t-in.s t-e re4erse o2 well) and i2 t-is be tr0e* t-en I do a22irm t-at
m0,- learnin. is dan.ero0s to yo0t-/
Cle/ $ow wo0ld yo0 ad4ise t-e .0ardian o2 t-e law to a,t3
At-/ In w-at res1e,t3
Cle/ I mean to w-at 1attern s-o0ld -e loo6 as -is .0ide in
1ermittin. t-e yo0n. to learn some t-in.s and 2orbiddin. t-em to learn
ot-ers/ %o not s-rin6 2rom answerin./
At-/ +y .ood Cleinias* I rat-er t-in6 t-at I am 2ort0nate/
Cle/ $ow so3
At-/ I t-in6 t-at I am not w-olly in want o2 a 1attern* 2or w-en I
,onsider t-e words w-i,- we -a4e s1o6en 2rom early dawn 0ntil now* and
w-i,-* as I belie4e* -a4e been ins1ired by $ea4en* t-ey a11ear to me
to be ;0ite li6e a 1oem/ W-en I re2le,ted 01on all t-ese words o2
o0rs/ I nat0rally 2elt 1leas0re* 2or o2 all t-e dis,o0rses w-i,- I
-a4e e4er learnt or -eard* eit-er in 1oetry or 1rose* t-is seemed to
me to be t-e j0stest* and most s0itable 2or yo0n. men to -ear) I
,annot ima.ine any better 1attern t-an t-is w-i,- t-e .0ardian o2
t-e law w-o is also t-e dire,tor o2 ed0,ation ,an -a4e/ $e ,annot do
better t-an ad4ise t-e tea,-ers to tea,- t-e yo0n. t-ese words and any
w-i,- are o2 a li6e nat0re* i2 -e s-o0ld -a11en to 2ind t-em* eit-er
in 1oetry or 1rose* or i2 -e ,ome a,ross 0nwritten dis,o0rses a6in
to o0rs* -e s-o0ld ,ertainly 1reser4e t-em* and ,ommit t-em to
writin./ And* 2irst o2 all* -e s-all ,onstrain t-e tea,-ers t-emsel4es
to learn and a11ro4e t-em* and any o2 t-em w-o will not* s-all not
be em1loyed by -im* b0t t-ose w-om -e 2inds a.reein. in -is
j0d.ment* -e s-all ma6e 0se o2 and s-all ,ommit to t-em t-e
instr0,tion and ed0,ation o2 yo0t-/ And -ere and on t-is wise let my
2an,i20l tale abo0t letters and tea,-ers o2 letters ,ome to an end/
Cle/ I do not t-in6* Stran.er* t-at we -a4e wandered o0t o2 t-e
1ro1osed limits o2 t-e ar.0ment) b0t w-et-er we are ri.-t or not in
o0r w-ole ,on,e1tion* I ,annot be 4ery ,ertain/
At-/ #-e tr0t-* Cleinias* may be e:1e,ted to be,ome ,learer w-en* as
we -a4e o2ten said* we arri4e at t-e end o2 t-e w-ole dis,0ssion abo0t
laws/
Cle/ 7es/
At-/ And now t-at we -a4e done wit- t-e tea,-er o2 letters* t-e
tea,-er o2 t-e lyre -as to re,ei4e orders 2rom 0s/
Cle/ Certainly/
At-/ I t-in6 t-at we -a4e only to re,olle,t o0r 1re4io0s
dis,0ssions* and we s-all be able to .i4e s0itable re.0lations
to0,-in. all t-is 1art o2 instr0,tion and ed0,ation to t-e tea,-ers o2
t-e lyre/
Cle/ #o w-at do yo0 re2er3
At-/ We were sayin.* i2 I remember ri.-tly* t-at t-e
si:ty9year9old ,-oristers o2 %ionys0s were to be s1e,ially ;0i,6 in
t-eir 1er,e1tions o2 r-yt-m and m0si,al ,om1osition* t-at t-ey mi.-t
be able to distin.0is- .ood and bad imitation* t-at is to say* t-e
imitation o2 t-e .ood or bad so0l w-en 0nder t-e in2l0en,e o2 1assion*
reje,tin. t-e one and dis1layin. t-e ot-er in -ymns and son.s*
,-armin. t-e so0ls o2 yo0t-* and in4itin. t-em to 2ollow and attain
4irt0e by t-e way o2 imitation/
Cle/ 8ery tr0e/
At-/ And wit- t-is 4iew* t-e tea,-er and t-e learner o0.-t to 0se
t-e so0nds o2 t-e lyre* be,a0se its notes are 10re* t-e 1layer w-o
tea,-es and -is 101il renderin. note 2or note in 0nison) b0t
,om1le:ity* and 4ariation o2 notes* w-en t-e strin.s .i4e one so0nd
and t-e 1oet or ,om1oser o2 t-e melody .i4es anot-er9also w-en t-ey
ma6e ,on,ords and -armonies in w-i,- lesser and .reater inter4als*
slow and ;0i,6* or -i.- and low notes* are ,ombined9or* a.ain* w-en
t-ey ma6e ,om1le: 4ariations o2 r-yt-ms* w-i,- t-ey ada1t to t-e notes
o2 t-e lyre9all t-at sort o2 t-in. is not s0ited to t-ose w-o -a4e
to a,;0ire a s1eedy and 0se20l 6nowled.e o2 m0si, in t-ree years)
2or o11osite 1rin,i1les are ,on20sin.* and ,reate a di22i,0lty in
learnin.* and o0r yo0n. men s-o0ld learn ;0i,6ly* and t-eir mere
ne,essary a,;0irements are not 2ew or tri2lin.* as will be s-own in
d0e ,o0rse/ Let t-e dire,tor o2 ed0,ation attend to t-e 1rin,i1les
,on,ernin. m0si, w-i,- we are layin. down/ As to t-e son.s and words
t-emsel4es w-i,- t-e masters o2 ,-or0ses are to tea,- and t-e
,-ara,ter o2 t-em* t-ey -a4e been already des,ribed by 0s* and are t-e
same w-i,-* w-en ,onse,rated and ada1ted to t-e di22erent 2esti4als*
we said were to bene2it ,ities by a22ordin. t-em an inno,ent
am0sement/
Cle/ #-at* a.ain* is tr0e/
At-/ #-en let -im w-o -as been ele,ted a dire,tor o2 m0si, re,ei4e
t-ese r0les 2rom 0s as ,ontainin. t-e 4ery tr0t-) and may -e 1ros1er
in -is o22i,eD Let 0s now 1ro,eed to lay down ot-er r0les in
addition to t-e 1re,edin. abo0t dan,in. and .ymnasti, e:er,ise in
.eneral/ $a4in. said w-at remained to be said abo0t t-e tea,-in. o2
m0si,* let 0s s1ea6 in li6e manner abo0t .ymnasti,/ "or boys and .irls
o0.-t to learn to dan,e and 1ra,tise .ymnasti, e:er,ises9o0.-t t-ey
not3
Cle/ 7es/
At-/ #-en t-e boys o0.-t to -a4e dan,in. masters* and t-e .irls
dan,in. mistresses to e:er,ise t-em/
Cle/ 8ery .ood/
At-/ #-en on,e more let 0s s0mmon -im w-o -as t-e ,-ie2 ,on,ern in
t-e b0siness* t-e s01erintendent o2 yo0t- Bi/e/* t-e dire,tor o2
ed0,ationC) -e will -a4e 1lenty to do* i2 -e is to -a4e t-e ,-ar.e
o2 m0si, and .ymnasti,/
Cle/ B0t -ow will old man be able to attend to s0,- .reat ,-ar.es3
At-/ O my 2riend* t-ere will be no di22i,0lty* 2or t-e law -as
already .i4en and will .i4e -im 1ermission to sele,t as -is assistants
in t-is ,-ar.e any ,iti<ens* male or 2emale* w-om -e desires) and -e
will 6now w-om -e o0.-t to ,-oose* and will be an:io0s not to ma6e a
mista6e* 2rom a d0e sense o2 res1onsibility* and 2rom a
,ons,io0sness o2 t-e im1ortan,e o2 -is o22i,e* and also be,a0se -e
will ,onsider t-at i2 yo0n. men -a4e been and are well bro0.-t 01*
t-en all t-in.s .o swimmin.ly* b0t i2 not* it is not meet to say*
nor do we say* w-at will 2ollow* lest t-e re.arders o2 omens s-o0ld
ta6e alarm abo0t o0r in2ant state/ +any t-in.s -a4e been said by 0s
abo0t dan,in. and abo0t .ymnasti, mo4ements in .eneral) 2or we in,l0de
0nder .ymnasti,s all military e:er,ises* s0,- as ar,-ery* and all
-0rlin. o2 wea1ons* and t-e 0se o2 t-e li.-t s-ield* and all
2i.-tin. wit- -ea4y arms* and military e4ol0tions* and mo4ements o2
armies* and en,am1in.s* and all t-at relates to -orsemans-i1/ O2 all
t-ese t-in.s t-ere o0.-t to be 10bli, tea,-ers* re,ei4in. 1ay 2rom t-e
state* and t-eir 101ils s-o0ld be t-e men and boys in t-e state* and
also t-e .irls and women* w-o are to 6now all t-ese t-in.s/ W-ile t-ey
are yet .irls t-ey s-o0ld -a4e 1ra,tised dan,in. in arms and t-e w-ole
art o2 2i.-tin.9w-en .rown901 women* t-ey s-o0ld a11ly t-emsel4es to
e4ol0tions and ta,ti,s* and t-e mode o2 .ro0ndin. and ta6in. 01
arms) i2 2or no ot-er reason* yet in ,ase t-e w-ole military 2or,e
s-o0ld -a4e to lea4e t-e ,ity and ,arry on o1erations o2 war
o0tside* t-at t-ose w-o will -a4e to .0ard t-e yo0n. and t-e rest o2
t-e ,ity may be e;0al to t-e tas6) and* on t-e ot-er -and* w-en
enemies* w-et-er barbarian or $elleni,* ,ome 2rom wit-o0t wit-
mi.-ty 2or,e and ma6e a 4iolent assa0lt 01on t-em* and t-0s ,om1el
t-em to 2i.-t 2or t-e 1ossession o2 t-e ,ity* w-i,- is 2ar 2rom
bein. an im1ossibility* .reat wo0ld be t-e dis.ra,e to t-e state* i2
t-e women -ad been so miserably trained t-at t-ey ,o0ld not 2i.-t
2or t-eir yo0n.* as birds will* a.ainst any ,reat0re -owe4er stron.*
and die or 0nder.o any dan.er* b0t m0st instantly r0s- to t-e
tem1les and ,rowd at t-e altars and s-rines* and brin. 01on -0man
nat0re t-e re1roa,-* t-at o2 all animals man is t-e most ,owardlyD
Cle/ S0,- a want o2 ed0,ation* Stran.er* is ,ertainly an 0nseemly
t-in. to -a11en in a state* as well as a .reat mis2ort0ne/
At-/ S011ose t-at we ,arry o0r law to t-e e:tent o2 sayin. t-at
women o0.-t not to ne.le,t military matters* b0t t-at all ,iti<ens*
male and 2emale ali6e* s-all attend to t-em3
Cle/ I ;0ite a.ree/
At-/ O2 wrestlin. we -a4e s1o6en in 1art* b0t o2 w-at I s-o0ld
,all t-e most im1ortant 1art we -a4e not s1o6en* and ,annot easily
s1ea6 wit-o0t s-owin. at t-e same time by .est0re as well as in word
w-at we mean) w-en word and a,tion ,ombine* and not till t-en* we
s-all e:1lain ,learly w-at -as been said* 1ointin. o0t t-at o2 all
mo4ements wrestlin. is most a6in to t-e military art* and is to be
10rs0ed 2or t-e sa6e o2 t-is* and not t-is 2or t-e sa6e o2 wrestlin./
Cle/ E:,ellent/
At-/ Eno0.- o2 wrestlin.) we will now 1ro,eed to s1ea6 o2 ot-er
mo4ements o2 t-e body/ S0,- motion may be in .eneral ,alled dan,in.*
and is o2 two 6inds( one o2 nobler 2i.0res* imitatin. t-e
-ono0rable* t-e ot-er o2 t-e more i.noble 2i.0res* imitatin. t-e mean)
and o2 bot- t-ese t-ere are two 20rt-er s0bdi4isions/ O2 t-e
serio0s* one 6ind is o2 t-ose en.a.ed in war and 4e-ement a,tion*
and is t-e e:er,ise o2 a noble 1erson and a manly -eart) t-e ot-er
e:-ibits a tem1erate so0l in t-e enjoyment o2 1ros1erity and modest
1leas0res* and may be tr0ly ,alled and is t-e dan,e o2 1ea,e/ #-e
warrior dan,e is di22erent 2rom t-e 1ea,e20l one* and may be ri.-tly
termed Pyrr-i,) t-is imitates t-e modes o2 a4oidin. blows and missiles
by dro11in. or .i4in. way* or s1rin.in. aside* or risin. 01 or 2allin.
down) also t-e o11osite 1ost0res w-i,- are t-ose o2 a,tion* as* 2or
e:am1le* t-e imitation o2 ar,-ery and t-e -0rlin. o2 ja4elins* and
o2 all sorts o2 blows/ And w-en t-e imitation is o2 bra4e bodies and
so0ls* and t-e a,tion is dire,t and m0s,0lar* .i4in. 2or t-e most 1art
a strai.-t mo4ement to t-e limbs o2 t-e body9t-at* I say* is t-e
tr0e sort) b0t t-e o11osite is not ri.-t/ In t-e dan,e o2 1ea,e w-at
we -a4e to ,onsider is w-et-er a man bears -imsel2 nat0rally and
.ra,e20lly* and a2ter t-e manner o2 men w-o d0ly ,on2orm to t-e law/
B0t be2ore 1ro,eedin. I m0st distin.0is- t-e dan,in. abo0t w-i,- t-ere
is any do0bt* 2rom t-at abo0t w-i,- t-ere is no do0bt/ W-i,- is t-e
do0bt20l 6ind* and -ow are t-e two to be distin.0is-ed3 #-ere are
dan,es o2 t-e Ba,,-i, sort* bot- t-ose in w-i,-* as t-ey say* t-ey
imitate dr0n6en men* and w-i,- are named a2ter t-e !ym1-s* and Pan*
and Silen0ses* and Satyrs) and also t-ose in w-i,- 10ri2i,ations are
made or mysteries ,elebrated9all t-is sort o2 dan,in. ,annot be
ri.-tly de2ined as -a4in. eit-er a 1ea,e20l or a warli6e ,-ara,ter* or
indeed as -a4in. any meanin. w-ate4er and may* I t-in6* be most
tr0ly des,ribed as distin,t 2rom t-e warli6e dan,e* and distin,t
2rom t-e 1ea,e20l* and not s0ited 2or a ,ity at all/ #-ere let it lie)
and so lea4in. it to lie* we will 1ro,eed to t-e dan,es o2 war and
1ea,e* 2or wit- t-ese we are 0ndo0btedly ,on,erned/ !ow t-e
0nwarli6e m0se* w-i,- -ono0rs in dan,e t-e &ods and t-e sons o2 t-e
&ods* is entirely asso,iated wit- t-e ,ons,io0sness o2 1ros1erity)
t-is ,lass may be s0bdi4ided into two lesser ,lasses* o2 w-i,- one
is e:1ressi4e o2 an es,a1e 2rom some labo0r or dan.er into .ood* and
-as .reater 1leas0res* t-e ot-er e:1ressi4e o2 1reser4ation and
in,rease o2 2ormer .ood* in w-i,- t-e 1leas0re is less e:,itin.)9in
all t-ese ,ases* e4ery man w-en t-e 1leas0re is .reater* mo4es -is
body more* and less w-en t-e 1leas0re is less) and* a.ain* i2 -e be
more orderly and -as learned ,o0ra.e 2rom dis,i1line -e wa4es less*
b0t i2 -e be a ,oward* and -as no trainin. or sel29,ontrol* -e ma6es
.reater and more 4iolent mo4ements* and in .eneral w-en -e is s1ea6in.
or sin.in. -e is not alto.et-er able to 6ee1 -is body still) and so
o0t o2 t-e imitation o2 words in .est0res t-e w-ole art o2 dan,in. -as
arisen/ And in t-ese 4ario0s 6inds o2 imitation one man mo4es in an
orderly* anot-er in a disorderly manner) and as t-e an,ients may be
obser4ed to -a4e .i4en many names w-i,- are a,,ordin. to nat0re and
deser4in. o2 1raise* so t-ere is an e:,ellent one w-i,- t-ey -a4e
.i4en to t-e dan,es o2 men w-o in t-eir times o2 1ros1erity are
moderate in t-eir 1leas0res9t-e .i4er o2 names* w-oe4er -e was*
assi.ned to t-em a 4ery tr0e* and 1oeti,al* and rational name* w-en -e
,alled t-em Emmeleiai* or dan,es o2 order* t-0s establis-in. two 6inds
o2 dan,es o2 t-e nobler sort* t-e dan,e o2 war w-i,- -e ,alled t-e
Pyrr-i,* and t-e dan,e o2 1ea,e w-i,- -e ,alled Emmeleia* or t-e dan,e
o2 order) .i4in. to ea,- t-eir a11ro1riate and be,omin. name/ #-ese
t-in.s t-e le.islator s-o0ld indi,ate in .eneral o0tline* and t-e
.0ardian o2 t-e law s-o0ld en;0ire into t-em and sear,- t-em o0t*
,ombinin. dan,in. wit- m0si,* and assi.nin. to t-e se4eral sa,ri2i,ial
2easts t-at w-i,- is s0itable to t-em) and w-en -e -as ,onse,rated all
o2 t-em in d0e order* -e s-all 2or t-e 20t0re ,-an.e not-in.*
w-et-er o2 dan,e or son./ #-en,e2orward t-e ,ity and t-e ,iti<ens
s-all ,ontin0e to -a4e t-e same 1leas0res* t-emsel4es bein. as 2ar
as 1ossible ali6e* and s-all li4e well and -a11ily/
I -a4e des,ribed t-e dan,es w-i,- are a11ro1riate to noble bodies
and .enero0s so0ls/ B0t it is ne,essary also to ,onsider and 6now
0n,omely 1ersons and t-o0.-ts* and t-ose w-i,- are intended to 1rod0,e
la0.-ter in ,omedy* and -a4e a ,omi, ,-ara,ter in res1e,t o2 style*
son.* and dan,e* and o2 t-e imitations w-i,- t-ese a22ord/ "or serio0s
t-in.s ,annot be 0nderstood wit-o0t la0.-able t-in.s* nor o11osites at
all wit-o0t o11osites* i2 a man is really to -a4e intelli.en,e o2
eit-er) b0t -e ,an not ,arry o0t bot- in a,tion* i2 -e is to -a4e
any de.ree o2 4irt0e/ And 2or t-is 4ery reason -e s-o0ld learn t-em
bot-* in order t-at -e may not in i.noran,e do or say anyt-in. w-i,-
is ridi,0lo0s and o0t o2 1la,e9-e s-o0ld ,ommand sla4es and -ired
stran.ers to imitate s0,- t-in.s* b0t -e s-o0ld ne4er ta6e any serio0s
interest in t-em -imsel2* nor s-o0ld any 2reeman or 2reewoman be
dis,o4ered ta6in. 1ains to learn t-em) and t-ere s-o0ld always be some
element o2 no4elty in t-e imitation/ Let t-ese t-en be laid down* bot-
in law and in o0r dis,o0rse* as t-e re.0lations o2 la0.-able
am0sements w-i,- are .enerally ,alled ,omedy/ And* i2 any o2 t-e
serio0s 1oets* as t-ey are termed* w-o write tra.edy* ,ome to 0s and
say9AO stran.ers* may we .o to yo0r ,ity and ,o0ntry or may we not*
and s-all we brin. wit- 0s o0r 1oetry9w-at is yo0r will abo0t t-ese
matters3A9-ow s-all we answer t-e di4ine men3 I t-in6 t-at o0r
answer s-o0ld be as 2ollows(9Best o2 stran.ers* we will say to t-em*
we also a,,ordin. to o0r ability are tra.i, 1oets* and o0r tra.edy
is t-e best and noblest) 2or o0r w-ole state is an imitation o2 t-e
best and noblest li2e* w-i,- we a22irm to be indeed t-e 4ery tr0t-
o2 tra.edy/ 7o0 are 1oets and we are 1oets* bot- ma6ers o2 t-e same
strains* ri4als and anta.onists in t-e noblest o2 dramas* w-i,- tr0e
law ,an alone 1er2e,t* as o0r -o1e is/ %o not t-en s011ose t-at we
s-all all in a moment allow yo0 to ere,t yo0r sta.e in t-e a.ora* or
introd0,e t-e 2air 4oi,es o2 yo0r a,tors* s1ea6in. abo4e o0r own*
and 1ermit yo0 to -aran.0e o0r women and ,-ildren* and t-e ,ommon
1eo1le* abo0t o0r instit0tions* in lan.0a.e ot-er t-an o0r own* and
4ery o2ten t-e o11osite o2 o0r own/ "or a state wo0ld be mad w-i,-
.a4e yo0 t-is li,en,e* 0ntil t-e ma.istrates -ad determined w-et-er
yo0r 1oetry mi.-t be re,ited* and was 2it 2or 10bli,ation or not/
W-ere2ore* O ye sons and s,ions o2 t-e so2ter +0ses* 2irst o2 all s-ow
yo0r son.s to t-e ma.istrates* and let t-em ,om1are t-em wit- o0r own*
and i2 t-ey are t-e same or better we will .i4e yo0 a ,-or0s) b0t i2
not* t-en* my 2riends* we ,annot/ Let t-ese* t-en* be t-e ,0stoms
ordained by law abo0t all dan,es and t-e tea,-in. o2 t-em* and let
matters relatin. to sla4es be se1arated 2rom t-ose relatin. to
masters* i2 yo0 do not obje,t/
Cle/ We ,an -a4e no -esitation in assentin. w-en yo0 10t t-e
matter t-0s/
At-/ #-ere still remain t-ree st0dies s0itable 2or 2reemen/
Arit-meti, is one o2 t-em) t-e meas0rement o2 len.t-* s0r2a,e* and
de1t- is t-e se,ond) and t-e t-ird -as to do wit- t-e re4ol0tions o2
t-e stars in relation to one anot-er/ !ot e4ery one -as need to toil
t-ro0.- all t-ese t-in.s in a stri,tly s,ienti2i, manner* b0t only a
2ew* and w-o t-ey are to be we will -erea2ter indi,ate at t-e end*
w-i,- will be t-e 1ro1er 1la,e) not to 6now w-at is ne,essary 2or
man6ind in .eneral* and w-at is t-e tr0t-* is dis.ra,e20l to e4ery
one( and yet to enter into t-ese matters min0tely is neit-er easy* nor
at all 1ossible 2or e4ery one) b0t t-ere is somet-in. in t-em w-i,- is
ne,essary and ,annot be set aside* and 1robably -e w-o made t-e
1ro4erb abo0t &od ori.inally -ad t-is in 4iew w-en -e said* t-at
Anot e4en &od -imsel2 ,an 2i.-t a.ainst ne,essityA)9-e meant* i2 I
am not mista6en* di4ine ne,essity) 2or as to t-e -0man ne,essities
o2 w-i,- t-e many s1ea6* w-en t-ey tal6 in t-is manner* not-in. ,an be
more ridi,0lo0s t-an s0,- an a11li,ation o2 t-e words/
Cle/ And w-at ne,essities o2 6nowled.e are t-ere* Stran.er* w-i,-
are di4ine and not -0man3
At-/ I ,on,ei4e t-em to be t-ose o2 w-i,- -e w-o -as no 0se nor
any 6nowled.e at all ,annot be a &od* or demi9.od* or -ero to man6ind*
or able to ta6e any serio0s t-o0.-t or ,-ar.e o2 t-em/ And 4ery 0nli6e
a di4ine man wo0ld -e be* w-o is 0nable to ,o0nt one* two* t-ree* or
to distin.0is- odd and e4en n0mbers* or is 0nable to ,o0nt at all*
or re,6on ni.-t and day* and w-o is totally 0na,;0ainted wit- t-e
re4ol0tion o2 t-e s0n and moon* and t-e ot-er stars/ #-ere wo0ld be
.reat 2olly in s011osin. t-at all t-ese are not ne,essary 1arts o2
6nowled.e to -im w-o intends to 6now anyt-in. abo0t t-e -i.-est
6inds o2 6nowled.e) b0t w-i,- t-ese are* and -ow many t-ere are o2
t-em* and w-en t-ey are to be learned* and w-at is to be learned
to.et-er and w-at a1art* and t-e w-ole ,orrelation o2 t-em* m0st be
ri.-tly a11re-ended 2irst) and t-ese leadin. t-e way we may 1ro,eed to
t-e ot-er 1arts o2 6nowled.e/ "or so ne,essity .ro0nded in nat0re
,onstrains 0s* a.ainst w-i,- we say t-at no &od ,ontends* or e4er will
,ontend/
Cle/ I t-in6* Stran.er* t-at w-at yo0 -a4e now said is 4ery tr0e and
a.reeable to nat0re/
At-/ 7es* Cleinias* t-at is so/ B0t it is di22i,0lt 2or t-e
le.islator to be.in wit- t-ese st0dies) at a more ,on4enient time we
will ma6e re.0lations 2or t-em/
Cle/ 7o0 seem* Stran.er* to be a2raid o2 o0r -abit0al i.noran,e o2
t-e s0bje,t( t-ere is no reason w-y t-at s-o0ld 1re4ent yo0 2rom
s1ea6in. o0t/
At-/ I ,ertainly am a2raid o2 t-e di22i,0lties to w-i,- yo0
all0de* b0t I am still more a2raid o2 t-ose w-o a11ly t-emsel4es to
t-is sort o2 6nowled.e* and a11ly t-emsel4es badly/ "or entire
i.noran,e is not so terrible or e:treme an e4il* and is 2ar 2rom bein.
t-e .reatest o2 all) too m0,- ,le4erness and too m0,- learnin.*
a,,om1anied wit- an ill brin.in. 01* are 2ar more 2atal/
Cle/ #r0e/
At-/ All 2reemen* I ,on,ei4e* s-o0ld learn as m0,- o2 t-ese bran,-es
o2 6nowled.e as e4ery ,-ild in E.y1t is ta0.-t w-en -e learns t-e
al1-abet/ In t-at ,o0ntry arit-meti,al .ames -a4e been in4ented 2or
t-e 0se o2 mere ,-ildren* w-i,- t-ey learn as a 1leas0re and
am0sement/ #-ey -a4e to distrib0te a11les and .arlands* 0sin. t-e same
n0mber sometimes 2or a lar.er and sometimes 2or a lesser n0mber o2
1ersons) and t-ey arran.e 10.ilists* and wrestlers as t-ey 1air
to.et-er by lot or remain o4er* and s-ow -ow t-eir t0rns ,ome in
nat0ral order/ Anot-er mode o2 am0sin. t-em is to distrib0te
4essels* sometimes o2 .old* brass* sil4er* and t-e li6e* intermi:ed
wit- one anot-er* sometimes o2 one metal only) as I was sayin. t-ey
ada1t to t-eir am0sement t-e n0mbers in ,ommon 0se* and in t-is way
ma6e more intelli.ible to t-eir 101ils t-e arran.ements and
mo4ements o2 armies and e:1editions* in t-e mana.ement o2 a
-o0se-old t-ey ma6e 1eo1le more 0se20l to t-emsel4es* and more wide
awa6e) and a.ain in meas0rements o2 t-in.s w-i,- -a4e len.t-* and
breadt-* and de1t-* t-ey 2ree 0s 2rom t-at nat0ral i.noran,e o2 all
t-ese t-in.s w-i,- is so l0di,ro0s and dis.ra,e20l/
Cle/ W-at 6ind o2 i.noran,e do yo0 mean3
At-/ O my dear Cleinias* I* li6e yo0rsel2* -a4e late in li2e -eard
wit- ama<ement o2 o0r i.noran,e in t-ese matters) to me we a11ear to
be more li6e 1i.s t-an men* and I am ;0ite as-amed* not only o2
mysel2* b0t o2 all $ellenes/
Cle/ Abo0t w-at3 Say* Stran.er* w-at yo0 mean/
At-/ I will) or rat-er I will s-ow yo0 my meanin. by a ;0estion* and
do yo0 1lease to answer me( 7o0 6now* I s011ose* w-at len.t- is3
Cle/ Certainly/
At-/ And w-at breadt- is3
Cle/ #o be s0re/
At-/ And yo0 6now t-at t-ese are two distin,t t-in.s* and t-at t-ere
is a t-ird t-in. ,alled de1t-3
Cle/ O2 ,o0rse/
At-/ And do not all t-ese seem to yo0 to be ,ommens0rable wit-
t-emsel4es3
Cle/ 7es/
At-/ #-at is to say* len.t- is nat0rally ,ommens0rable wit-
len.t-* and breadt- wit- breadt-* and de1t- in li6e manner wit- de1t-3
Cle/ 'ndo0btedly/
At-/ B0t i2 some t-in.s are ,ommens0rable and ot-ers w-olly
in,ommens0rable* and yo0 t-in6 t-at all t-in.s are ,ommens0rable* w-at
is yo0r 1osition in re.ard to t-em3
Cle/ Clearly* 2ar 2rom .ood/
At-/ Con,ernin. len.t- and breadt- w-en ,om1ared wit- de1t-* or
breadt- w-en and len.t- w-en ,om1ared wit- one anot-er* are not all
t-e $ellenes a.reed t-at t-ese are ,ommens0rable wit- one in some way3
Cle/ @0ite tr0e/
At-/ B0t i2 t-ey are absol0tely in,ommens0rable* and yet all o2 0s
re.ard t-em as ,ommens0rable* -a4e we not reason to be as-amed o2
o0r ,om1atriots) and mi.-t we not say to t-em(9O ye best o2
$ellenes* is not t-is one o2 t-e t-in.s o2 w-i,- we were sayin. t-at
not to 6now t-em is dis.ra,e20l* and o2 w-i,- to -a4e a bare 6nowled.e
only is no .reat distin,tion3
Cle/ Certainly/
At-/ And t-ere are ot-er t-in.s a6in to t-ese* in w-i,- t-ere s1rin.
01 ot-er errors o2 t-e same 2amily/
Cle/ W-at are t-ey3
At-/ #-e nat0res o2 ,ommens0rable and in,ommens0rable ;0antities
in t-eir relation to one anot-er/ A man w-o is .ood 2or a t-in.
o0.-t to be able* w-en -e t-in6s* to distin.0is- t-em) and di22erent
1ersons s-o0ld ,om1ete wit- one anot-er in as6in. ;0estions* w-i,-
will be a 2air* better and more .ra,e20l way o2 1assin. t-eir time
t-an t-e old man=s .ame o2 dra0.-ts/
Cle/ I dare say) and t-ese 1astimes are not so 4ery 0nli6e a .ame o2
dra0.-ts/
At-/ And t-ese* as I maintain* Cleinias* are t-e st0dies w-i,- o0r
yo0t- o0.-t to learn* 2or t-ey are inno,ent and not di22i,0lt) t-e
learnin. o2 t-em will be an am0sement* and t-ey will bene2it t-e
state/ I2 anyone is o2 anot-er mind* let -im say w-at -e -as to say/
Cle/ Certainly/
At-/ #-en i2 t-ese st0dies are s0,- as we maintain we will in,l0de
t-em) i2 not* t-ey s-all be e:,l0ded/
Cle/ Ass0redly( b0t may we not now* Stran.er* 1res,ribe t-ese
st0dies as ne,essary* and so 2ill 01 t-e la,0nae o2 o0r laws3
At-/ #-ey s-all be re.arded as 1led.es w-i,- may be -erea2ter
redeemed and remo4ed 2rom o0r state* i2 t-ey do not 1lease eit-er 0s
w-o .i4e t-em* or yo0 w-o a,,e1t t-em/
Cle/ A 2air ,ondition/
At-/ !e:t let 0s see w-et-er we are or are not willin. t-at t-e
st0dy o2 astronomy s-all be 1ro1osed 2or o0r yo0t-/
Cle/ Pro,eed/
At-/ $ere o,,0rs a stran.e 1-enomenon* w-i,- ,ertainly ,annot in any
1oint o2 4iew be tolerated/
Cle/ #o w-at are yo0 re2errin.3
At-/ +en say t-at we o0.-t not to en;0ire into t-e s01reme &od and
t-e nat0re o2 t-e 0ni4erse* nor b0sy o0rsel4es in sear,-in. o0t t-e
,a0ses o2 t-in.s* and t-at s0,- en;0iries are im1io0s) w-ereas t-e
4ery o11osite is t-e tr0t-/
Cle/ W-at do yo0 mean3
At-/ Per-a1s w-at I am sayin. may seem 1arado:i,al* and at
4arian,e wit- t-e 0s0al lan.0a.e o2 a.e/ B0t w-en any one -as any .ood
and tr0e notion w-i,- is 2or t-e ad4anta.e o2 t-e state and in e4ery
way a,,e1table to &od* -e ,annot abstain 2rom e:1ressin. it/
Cle/ 7o0r words are reasonable eno0.-) b0t s-all we 2ind any .ood or
tr0e notion abo0t t-e stars3
At-/ +y .ood 2riends* at t-is -o0r all o2 0s $ellenes tell lies*
i2 I may 0se s0,- an e:1ression* abo0t t-ose .reat &ods* t-e S0n and
t-e +oon/
Cle/ Lies o2 w-at nat0re3
At-/ We say t-at t-ey and di4ers ot-er stars do not 6ee1 t-e same
1at-* and we ,all t-em 1lanets or wanderers/
Cle/ 8ery tr0e* Stran.er) and in t-e ,o0rse o2 my li2e I -a4e
o2ten mysel2 seen t-e mornin. star and t-e e4enin. star and di4ers
ot-ers not mo4in. in t-eir a,,0stomed ,o0rse* b0t wanderin. o0t o2
t-eir 1at- in all manner o2 ways* and I -a4e seen t-e s0n and moon
doin. w-at we all 6now t-at t-ey do/
At-/ J0st so* +e.ill0s and Cleinias) and I maintain t-at o0r
,iti<ens and o0r yo0t- o0.-t to learn abo0t t-e nat0re o2 t-e &ods
in -ea4en* so 2ar as to be able to o22er sa,ri2i,es and 1ray to t-em
in 1io0s lan.0a.e* and not to blas1-eme abo0t t-em/
Cle/ #-ere yo0 are ri.-t i2 s0,- a 6nowled.e be only attainable) and
i2 we are wron. in o0r mode o2 s1ea6in. now* and ,an be better
instr0,ted and learn to 0se better lan.0a.e* t-en I ;0ite a.ree wit-
yo0 t-at s0,- a de.ree o2 6nowled.e as will enable 0s to s1ea6 ri.-tly
s-o0ld be a,;0ired by 0s/ And now do yo0 try to e:1lain to 0s yo0r
w-ole meanin.* and we* on o0r 1art* will endea4o0r to 0nderstand yo0/
At-/ #-ere is some di22i,0lty in 0nderstandin. my meanin.* b0t not a
4ery .reat one* nor will any .reat len.t- o2 time be re;0ired/ And
o2 t-is I am mysel2 a 1roo2) 2or I did not 6now t-ese t-in.s lon. a.o*
nor in t-e days o2 my yo0t-* and yet I ,an e:1lain t-em to yo0 in a
brie2 s1a,e o2 time) w-ereas i2 t-ey -ad been di22i,0lt I ,o0ld
,ertainly ne4er -a4e e:1lained t-em all* old as I am* to old men
li6e yo0rsel4es/
Cle/ #r0e) b0t w-at is t-is st0dy w-i,- yo0 des,ribe as wonder20l
and 2ittin. 2or yo0t- to learn* b0t o2 w-i,- we are i.norant3 #ry
and e:1lain t-e nat0re o2 it to 0s as ,learly as yo0 ,an/
At-/ I will/ "or* O my .ood 2riends* t-at ot-er do,trine abo0t t-e
wanderin. o2 t-e s0n and t-e moon and t-e ot-er stars is not t-e
tr0t-* b0t t-e 4ery re4erse o2 t-e tr0t-/ Ea,- o2 t-em mo4es in t-e
same 1at-9not in many 1at-s* b0t in one only* w-i,- is ,ir,0lar* and
t-e 4arieties are only a11arent/ !or are we ri.-t in s011osin. t-at
t-e swi2test o2 t-em is t-e slowest* nor ,on4ersely* t-at t-e
slowest is t-e ;0i,6est/ And i2 w-at I say is tr0e* only j0st
ima.ine t-at we -ad a similar notion abo0t -orses r0nnin. at
Olym1ia* or abo0t men w-o ran in t-e lon. ,o0rse* and t-at we
addressed t-e swi2test as t-e slowest and t-e slowest as t-e swi2test*
and san. t-e 1raises o2 t-e 4an;0is-ed as t-o0.- -e were t-e
4i,tor*9in t-at ,ase o0r 1raises wo0ld not be tr0e* nor 4ery a.reeable
to t-e r0nners* t-o0.- t-ey be b0t men) and now* to ,ommit t-e same
error abo0t t-e &ods w-i,- wo0ld -a4e been l0di,ro0s and erroneo0s
in t-e ,ase o2 men9is not t-at l0di,ro0s and erroneo0s3
Cle/ Worse t-an l0di,ro0s* I s-o0ld say/
At-/ At all e4ents* t-e &ods ,annot li6e 0s to be s1readin. a
2alse re1ort o2 t-em/
Cle/ +ost tr0e* i2 s0,- is t-e 2a,t/
At-/ And i2 we ,an s-ow t-at s0,- is really t-e 2a,t* t-en all t-ese
matters o0.-t to be learned so 2ar as is ne,essary 2or t-e a4oidan,e
o2 im1iety) b0t i2 we ,annot* t-ey may be let alone* and let t-is be
o0r de,ision/
Cle/ 8ery .ood/
At-/ Eno0.- o2 laws relatin. to ed0,ation and learnin./ B0t
-0ntin. and similar 10rs0its in li6e manner ,laim o0r attention/ "or
t-e le.islator a11ears to -a4e a d0ty im1osed 01on -im w-i,- .oes
beyond mere le.islation/ #-ere is somet-in. o4er and abo4e law w-i,-
lies in a re.ion between admonition and law* and -as se4eral times
o,,0rred to 0s in t-e ,o0rse o2 dis,0ssion) 2or e:am1le* in t-e
ed0,ation o2 4ery yo0n. ,-ildren t-ere were t-in.s* as we maintain*
w-i,- are not to be de2ined* and to re.ard t-em as matters o2 1ositi4e
law is a .reat abs0rdity/ !ow* o0r laws and t-e w-ole ,onstit0tion
o2 o0r state -a4in. been t-0s delineated* t-e 1raise o2 t-e 4irt0o0s
,iti<en is not ,om1lete w-en -e is des,ribed as t-e 1erson w-o
ser4es t-e laws best and obeys t-em most* b0t t-e -i.-er 2orm o2
1raise is t-at w-i,- des,ribes -im as t-e .ood ,iti<en w-o 1asses
t-ro0.- li2e 0nde2iled and is obedient to t-e words o2 t-e le.islator*
bot- w-en -e is .i4in. laws and w-en -e assi.ns 1raise and blame/ #-is
is t-e tr0est word t-at ,an be s1o6en in 1raise o2 a ,iti<en) and
t-e tr0e le.islator o0.-t not only to write -is laws* b0t also to
interwea4e wit- t-em all s0,- t-in.s as seem to -im -ono0rable and
dis-ono0rable/ And t-e 1er2e,t ,iti<en o0.-t to see6 to stren.t-en
t-ese no less t-an t-e 1rin,i1les o2 law w-i,- are san,tioned by
10nis-ments/ I will add0,e an e:am1le w-i,- will ,lear 01 my
meanin.* and will be a sort o2 witness to my words/ $0ntin. is o2 wide
e:tent* and -as a name 0nder w-i,- many t-in.s are in,l0ded* 2or t-ere
is a -0ntin. o2 ,reat0res in t-e water* and o2 ,reat0res in t-e air*
and t-ere is a .reat deal o2 -0ntin. o2 land animals o2 all 6inds* and
not o2 wild beasts only/ #-e -0ntin. a2ter man is also wort-y o2
,onsideration) t-ere is t-e -0ntin. a2ter -im in war* and t-ere is
o2ten a -0ntin. a2ter -im in t-e way o2 2riends-i1* w-i,- is 1raised
and also blamed) and t-ere is t-ie4in.* and t-e -0ntin. w-i,- is
1ra,tised by robbers* and t-at o2 armies a.ainst armies/ !ow t-e
le.islator* in layin. down laws abo0t -0ntin.* ,an neit-er abstain
2rom notin. t-ese t-in.s* nor ,an -e ma6e t-reatenin. ordinan,es w-i,-
will assi.n r0les and 1enalties abo0t all o2 t-em/ W-at is -e to do3
$e will -a4e to 1raise and blame -0ntin. wit- a 4iew to t-e e:er,ise
and 10rs0its o2 yo0t-/ And* on t-e ot-er -and* t-e yo0n. man m0st
listen obediently) neit-er 1leas0re nor 1ain s-o0ld -inder -im* and -e
s-o0ld re.ard as -is standard o2 a,tion t-e 1raises and inj0n,tions o2
t-e le.islator rat-er t-an t-e 10nis-ments w-i,- -e im1oses by law/
#-is bein. 1remised* t-ere will 2ollow ne:t in order moderate 1raise
and ,ens0re o2 -0ntin.) t-e 1raise bein. assi.ned to t-at 6ind w-i,-
will ma6e t-e so0ls o2 yo0n. men better* and t-e ,ens0re to t-at w-i,-
-as t-e o11osite e22e,t/
And now let 0s address yo0n. men in t-e 2orm o2 a 1rayer 2or t-eir
wel2are( O 2riends* we will say to t-em* may no desire or lo4e o2
-0ntin. in t-e sea* or o2 an.lin. or o2 ,at,-in. t-e ,reat0res in
t-e waters* e4er ta6e 1ossession o2 yo0* eit-er w-en yo0 are awa6e
or w-en yo0 are aslee1* by -oo6 or wit- weels* w-i,- latter is a
4ery la<y ,ontri4an,e) and let not any desire o2 ,at,-in. men and o2
1ira,y by sea enter into yo0r so0ls and ma6e yo0 ,r0el and lawless
-0nters/ And as to t-e desire o2 t-ie4in. in town or ,o0ntry* may it
ne4er enter into yo0r most 1assin. t-o0.-ts) nor let t-e insidio0s
2an,y o2 ,at,-in. birds* w-i,- is -ardly wort-y o2 2reemen* ,ome
into t-e -ead o2 any yo0t-/ #-ere remains t-ere2ore 2or o0r at-letes
only t-e -0ntin. and ,at,-in. o2 land animals* o2 w-i,- t-e one sort
is ,alled -0ntin. by ni.-t* in w-i,- t-e -0nters slee1 in t0rn and are
la<y) t-is is not to be ,ommended any more t-an t-at w-i,- -as
inter4als o2 rest* in w-i,- t-e will stren.t- o2 beasts is s0bd0ed
by nets and snares* and not by t-e 4i,tory o2 a laborio0s s1irit/
#-0s* only t-e best 6ind o2 -0ntin. is allowed at all9t-at o2
;0adr01eds* w-i,- is ,arried on wit- -orses and do.s and men=s own
1ersons* and t-ey .et t-e 4i,tory o4er t-e animals by r0nnin. t-em
down and stri6in. t-em and -0rlin. at t-em* t-ose w-o -a4e a ,are o2
.odli6e man-ood ta6in. t-em wit- t-eir own -ands/ #-e 1raise and blame
w-i,- is assi.ned to all t-ese t-in.s -as now been de,lared) and let
t-e law be as 2ollows(9Let no one -inder t-ese w-o 4erily are sa,red
-0nters 2rom 2ollowin. t-e ,-ase w-ere4er and w-it-er soe4er t-ey
will) b0t t-e -0nter by ni.-t* w-o tr0sts to -is nets and .ins*
s-all not be allowed to -0nt anyw-ere/ #-e 2owler in t-e mo0ntains and
waste 1la,es s-all be 1ermitted* b0t on ,0lti4ated .ro0nd and on
,onse,rated wilds -e s-all not be 1ermitted) and any one w-o meets -im
may sto1 -im/ As to t-e -0nter in waters* -e may -0nt anyw-ere
e:,e1t in -arbo0rs or sa,red streams or mars-es or 1ools* 1ro4ided
only t-at -e do not 1oll0te t-e water wit- 1oisono0s j0i,es/ And now
we may say t-at all o0r ena,tments abo0t ed0,ation are ,om1lete/
Cle/ 8ery .ood/
BOOK 8IIII
At-enian Stran.er/ !e:t* wit- t-e -el1 o2 t-e %el1-ian ora,le* we
-a4e to instit0te 2esti4als and ma6e laws abo0t t-em* and to determine
w-at sa,ri2i,es will be 2or t-e .ood o2 t-e ,ity* and to w-at &ods
t-ey s-all be o22ered) b0t w-en t-ey s-all be o22ered* and -ow
o2ten* may be 1artly re.0lated by 0s/
Cleinias/ #-e n0mber9yes/
At-/ #-en we will 2irst determine t-e n0mber) and let t-e w-ole
n0mber be 36F9one 2or e4ery day9so t-at one ma.istrate at least will
sa,ri2i,e daily to some &od or demi9.od on be-al2 o2 t-e ,ity* and t-e
,iti<ens* and t-eir 1ossessions/ And t-e inter1reters* and 1riests*
and 1riestesses* and 1ro1-ets s-all meet* and* in ,om1any wit- t-e
.0ardians o2 t-e law* ordain t-ose t-in.s w-i,- t-e le.islator o2
ne,essity omits) and I may remar6 t-at t-ey are t-e 4ery 1ersons w-o
o0.-t to ta6e note o2 w-at is omitted/ #-e law will say t-at t-ere are
twel4e 2easts dedi,ated to t-e twel4e &ods* a2ter w-om t-e se4eral
tribes are named) and t-at to ea,- o2 t-em t-ey s-all sa,ri2i,e
e4ery mont-* and a11oint ,-or0ses* and m0si,al and .ymnasti, ,ontests*
assi.nin. t-em so as to s0it t-e &ods and seasons o2 t-e year/ And
t-ey s-all -a4e 2esti4als 2or women* distin.0is-in. t-ose w-i,-
o0.-t to be se1arated 2rom t-e men=s 2esti4als* and t-ose w-i,-
o0.-t not/ "0rt-er* t-ey s-all not ,on20se t-e in2ernal deities and
t-eir rites wit- t-e &ods w-o are termed -ea4enly and t-eir rites* b0t
s-all se1arate t-em* .i4in. to Pl0to -is own in t-e twel2t- mont-*
w-i,- is sa,red to -im* a,,ordin. to t-e law/ #o s0,- a deity
warli6e men s-o0ld entertain no a4ersion* b0t t-ey s-o0ld -ono0r -im
as bein. always t-e best 2riend o2 man/ "or t-e ,onne,tion o2 so0l and
body is no way better t-an t-e dissol0tion o2 t-em* as I am ready to
maintain ;0ite serio0sly/ +oreo4er* t-ose w-o wo0ld re.0late t-ese
matters ri.-tly s-o0ld ,onsider* t-at o0r ,ity amon. e:istin. ,ities
-as 2ellow* eit-er in res1e,t o2 leis0re or ,omin and o2 t-e
ne,essaries o2 li2e* and t-at li6e an indi4id0al s-e o0.-t to li4e
-a11ily/ And t-ose w-o wo0ld li4e -a11ily s-o0ld in t-e 2irst 1la,e do
no wron. to one anot-er* and o0.-t not t-emsel4es to be wron.ed by
ot-ers) to attain t-e 2irst is not di22i,0lt* b0t t-ere is .reat
di22i,0lty* in a,;0irin. t-e 1ower o2 not bein. wron.ed/ !o man ,an be
1er2e,tly se,0re a.ainst wron.* 0nless -e -as be,ome 1er2e,tly .ood)
and ,ities are li6e indi4id0als in t-is* 2or a ,ity i2 .ood -as a li2e
o2 1ea,e* b0t i2 e4il* a li2e o2 war wit-in and wit-o0t/ W-ere2ore t-e
,iti<ens o0.-t to 1ra,tise war9not in time o2 war* b0t rat-er w-ile
t-ey are at 1ea,e/ And e4ery ,ity w-i,- -as any sense* s-o0ld ta6e t-e
2ield at least 2or one day in e4ery mont-) and 2or more i2 t-e
ma.istrates t-in6 2it* -a4in. no re.ard to winter ,old or s0mmer -eat)
and t-ey s-o0ld .o o0t en masse* in,l0din. t-eir wi4es and t-eir
,-ildren* w-en t-e ma.istrates determine to lead 2ort- t-e w-ole
1eo1le* or in se1arate 1ortions w-en s0mmoned by t-em) and t-ey s-o0ld
always 1ro4ide t-at t-ere s-o0ld be .ames and sa,ri2i,ial 2easts*
and t-ey s-o0ld -a4e to0rnaments* imitatin. in as li4ely a manner as
t-ey ,an real battles/ And t-ey s-o0ld distrib0te 1ri<es o2 4i,tory
and 4alo0r to t-e ,om1etitors* 1assin. ,ens0res and en,omi0ms on one
anot-er a,,ordin. to t-e ,-ara,ters w-i,- t-ey bear in t-e ,ontests
and t-eir w-ole li2e* -ono0rin. -im w-o seems to be t-e best* and
blamin. -im w-o is t-e o11osite/ And let 1oets ,elebrate t-e
4i,tors9not -owe4er e4ery 1oet* b0t only one w-o in t-e 2irst 1la,e is
not less t-an 2i2ty years o2 a.e) nor s-o0ld -e be one w-o* alt-o0.-
-e may -a4e m0si,al and 1oeti,al .i2ts* -as ne4er in -is li2e done any
noble or ill0strio0s a,tion) b0t t-ose w-o are t-emsel4es .ood and
also -ono0rable in t-e state* ,reators o2 noble a,tions9let t-eir
1oems be s0n.* e4en t-o0.- t-ey be not 4ery m0si,al/ And let t-e
j0d.ment o2 t-em rest wit- t-e instr0,tor o2 yo0t- and t-e ot-er
.0ardians o2 t-e laws* w-o s-all .i4e t-em t-is 1ri4ile.e* and t-ey
alone s-all be 2ree to sin.) b0t t-e rest o2 t-e world s-all not
-a4e t-is liberty/ !or s-all any one dare to sin. a son. w-i,- -as not
been a11ro4ed by t-e j0d.ment o2 t-e .0ardians o2 t-e laws* not e4en
i2 -is strain be sweeter t-an t-e son.s o2 #-amyras and Or1-e0s) b0t
only and Or1-e0s) b0t only s0,- 1oems as -a4e been j0d.ed sa,red and
dedi,ated to t-e &ods* and s0,- as are t-e wor6s o2 .ood men* w-i,-
1raise o2 blame -as been awarded and w-i,- -a4e been deemed to
20l2il t-eir desi.n 2airly/
#-e re.0lations abo0t and abo0t liberty o2 s1ee,- in 1oitry* o0.-t
to a11ly e;0ally to men and women/ #-e le.islator may be s011osed to
ar.0e t-e ;0estion in -is own mind(9W-o are my ,iti<ens 2or w-om I
-a4e set in order t-e ,ity3 Are t-ey not ,om1etitors in t-e .reatest
o2 all ,ontests* and -a4e t-ey not inn0merable ri4als3 #o be s0re*
will be t-e nat0ral* re1ly/ Well* b0t i2 we were trainin. bo:ers* or
1an,ratiasts* or any ot-er sort o2 at-letes* wo0ld t-ey ne4er meet
0ntil t-e -o0r o2 ,ontest arri4ed) and s-o0ld we do not-in. to 1re1are
o0rsel4es 1re4io0sly by daily 1ra,ti,e3 S0rely* i2 we were bo:ers we
s-o0ld -a4e been learnin. to 2i.-t 2or many days be2ore* and
e:er,isin. o0rsel4es in imitatin. all t-ose blows and wards w-i,- we
were intendin. to 0se in t-e -o0r o2 ,on2li,t) and in order t-at we
mi.-t ,ome as near to reality as 1ossible* instead o2 ,est0ses we
s-o0ld 10t on bo:in. .lo4es* t-at t-e blows and t-e wards mi.-t be
1ra,tised by 0s to t-e 0tmost o2 o0r 1ower/ And i2 t-ere were a la,6
o2 ,om1etitors* t-e ridi,0le o2 2ools wo0ld ryot deter 0s 2rom -an.in.
01 a li2eless ima.e and 1ra,tisin. at t-at/ Or i2 we -ad no
ad4ersary at all* animate or inanimate* s-o0ld we not 4ent0re in t-e
deart- o2 anta.onists to s1ar by o0rsel4es3 In w-at ot-er manner ,o0ld
we e4er st0dy t-e art o2 sel29de2en,e3
Cle/ #-e way w-i,- yo0 mention Stran.er* wo0ld be t-e only way/
At-/ And s-all t-e warriors o2 o0r ,ity* w-o are destined w-en
o,,asion ,alli to enter t-e .reatest o2 all ,ontests* and to 2i.-t 2or
t-eir li4es* and t-eir ,-ildren* and t-eir 1ro1erty* and t-e w-ole
,ity* be worse 1re1ared t-an bo:ers3 And will t-e le.islator*
be,a0se -e is a2raid t-at t-eir 1ra,tisin. wit- one anot-er may a11ear
to some ridi,0lo0s* abstain 2rom ,ommandin. t-em to .o o0t and
2i.-t) will -e not ordain t-at soldiers s-all 1er2orm lesser e:er,ises
wit-o0t arms e4ery day* ma6in. dan,in. and all .ymnasti, tend to
t-is end) and also will -e not re;0ire t-at t-ey s-all 1ra,tise some
.ymnasti, e:er,ises* .reater as well as lesser* as o2ten as e4ery
mont-) and t-at t-ey s-all -a4e ,ontests one wit- anot-er in e4ery
1art o2 t-e ,o0ntry* sei<in. 01on 1osts and lyin. in amb0s-* and
imitatin. in e4ery res1e,t t-e reality o2 war) 2i.-tin. wit-
bo:in.9.lo4es and -0rlin. ja4elins* and 0sin. wea1ons somew-at
dan.ero0s* and as nearly as 1ossible li6e t-e tr0e ones* in order t-at
t-e s1ort may not be alto.et-er wit-o0t 2ear* b0t may -a4e terrors and
to a ,ertain de.ree s-ow t-e man w-o -as and w-o -as not ,o0ra.e)
and t-at t-e -ono0r and dis-ono0r w-i,- are assi.ned to t-em
res1e,ti4ely* may 1re1are t-e w-ole ,ity 2or t-e tr0e ,on2li,t o2
li2e3 I2 any one dies in t-ese mimi, ,ontests* t-e -omi,ide is
in4ol0ntary* and we will ma6e t-e slayer* w-en -e -as been 10ri2ied
a,,ordin. to law* to be 10re o2 blood* ,onsiderin. t-at i2 a 2ew men
s-o0ld die* ot-ers as .ood as t-ey will be born) b0t t-at i2 2ear is
dead t-en t-e ,iti<ens will ne4er 2ind a test o2 s01erior and in2erior
nat0res* w-i,- is a 2ar .reater e4il to t-e state t-an t-e loss o2 a
2ew/
Cle/ We are ;0ite a.reed* Stran.er* t-at we s-o0ld le.islate abo0t
s0,- t-in.s* and t-at t-e w-ole state s-o0ld 1ra,tise t-em s011osed
At-/ And w-at is t-e reason t-at dan,es and ,ontests o2 t-is sort
-ardly e4er e:ist in states* at least not to any e:tent wort- s1ea6in.
o23 Is t-is d0e to t-e i.noran,e o2 man6ind and t-eir le.islators3
Cle/ Per-a1s/
At-/ Certainly not* sweet Cleinias) t-ere are two ,a0ses* w-i,-
are ;0ite eno0.- to a,,o0nt 2or t-e de2i,ien,y/
Cle/ W-at are t-ey3
At-/ One ,a0se is t-e lo4e o2 wealt-* w-i,- w-olly absorbs men*
and ne4er 2or a moment allows t-em to t-in6 o2 anyt-in. b0t t-eir
own 1ri4ate 1ossessions) on t-is t-e so0l o2 e4ery ,iti<en -an.s
s0s1ended* and ,an attend to not-in. b0t -is daily .ain) man6ind are
ready to learn any bran,- o2 6nowled.e* and to 2ollow any 10rs0it
w-i,- tends to t-is end* and t-ey la0.- at e4ery ot-er(9t-at is one
reason w-y a ,ity will not be in earnest abo0t s0,- ,ontests or any
ot-er .ood and -ono0rable 10rs0it/ B0t 2rom an insatiable lo4e o2 .old
and sil4er* e4ery man will stoo1 to any art or ,ontri4an,e* seemly
or 0nseemly* in t-e -o1e o2 be,omin. ri,-) and will ma6e no
obje,tion to 1er2ormin. any a,tion* -oly* or 0n-oly and 0tterly
base* i2 only li6e a beast -e -a4e t-e 1ower o2 eatin. and drin6in.
all 6inds o2 t-in.s* and 1ro,0rin. 2or -imsel2 in e4ery sort o2 way
t-e .rati2i,ation o2 -is l0sts/
Cle/ #r0e/
At-/ Let t-is* t-en* be deemed one o2 t-e ,a0ses w-i,- 1re4ent
states 2rom 10rs0in. in an e22i,ient manner t-e art o2 war* or any
ot-er noble aim* b0t ma6es t-e orderly and tem1erate 1art o2 man6ind
into mer,-ants* and ,a1tains o2 s-i1s* and ser4ants* and ,on4erts
t-e 4aliant sort into t-ie4es and b0r.lars and robbers o2 tem1les* and
4iolent* tyranni,al 1ersons) many o2 w-om are not wit-o0t ability* b0t
t-ey are 0n2ort0nate/
Cle/ W-at do yo0 mean3
At-/ +0st not t-ey be tr0ly 0n2ort0nate w-ose so0ls are ,om1elled to
1ass t-ro0.- li2e always -0n.erin.3
Cle/ #-en t-at is one ,a0se* Stran.er) b0t yo0 s1o6e o2 anot-er/
At-/ #-an6 yo0 2or remindin. me/
Cle/ #-e insatiable li2e lon. lo4e o2 wealt-* as yo0 were sayin.
is one ,la0se w-i,- absorbs man6ind* and 1re4ents t-em 2rom ri.-tly
1ra,tisin. t-e arts o2 war(9&ranted) and now tell me* w-at is t-e
ot-er3
At-/ %o yo0 ima.ine t-at I delay be,a0se I am in a 1er1le:ity3
Cle/ !o) b0t we t-in6 t-at yo0 are too se4ere 01on t-e
money9lo4in. tem1er* o2 w-i,- yo0 seem in t-e 1resent dis,0ssion to
-a4e a 1e,0liar disli6e/
At-/ #-at is a 4ery 2air reb06e* Cleinias) and I will now 1ro,eed
to t-e se,ond ,a0se/
Cle/ Pro,eed/
At-/ I say t-at .o4ernments are a ,a0se9demo,ra,y* oli.ar,-y*
tyranny* ,on,ernin. w-i,- I -a4e o2ten s1o6en in t-e 1re4io0s
dis,o0rse) or rat-er .o4ernments t-ey are not* 2or none o2 t-em
e:er,ises a 4ol0ntary r0le o4er 4ol0ntary s0bje,ts) b0t t-ey may be
tr0ly ,alled states o2 dis,ord* in w-i,- w-ile t-e .o4ernment is
4ol0ntary* t-e s0bje,ts always obey a.ainst t-eir will* and -a4e to be
,oer,ed) and t-e r0ler 2ears t-e s0bje,t* and will not* i2 -e ,an
-el1* allow -im to be,ome eit-er noble* or ri,-* or stron.* or
4aliant* or warli6e at all/ #-ese two are t-e ,-ie2 ,a0ses o2 almost
all e4ils* and o2 t-e e4ils o2 w-i,- I -a4e been s1ea6in. t-ey are
notably t-e ,a0ses/ B0t o0r state -as es,a1ed bot- o2 t-em) 2or -er
,iti<ens -a4e t-e .reatest leis0re* and t-ey are not s0bje,t to one
anot-er* and will* I t-in6* be made by t-ese laws t-e re4erse o2
lo4ers o2 money/ S0,- a ,onstit0tion may be reasonably s011osed to
be t-e only one e:istin. w-i,- will a,,e1t t-e ed0,ation w-i,- we -a4e
des,ribed* and t-e martial 1astimes w-i,- -a4e been 1er2e,ted
a,,ordin. to o0r idea/
Cle/ #r0e/
At-/ #-en ne:t we m0st remember* abo0t all .ymnasti, ,ontests*
t-at only t-e warli6e sort o2 t-em are to be 1ra,tised and to -a4e
1ri<es o2 4i,tory) and t-ose w-i,- are not military are to be .i4en
01/ #-e military sort -ad better be ,om1letely des,ribed and
establis-ed by law) and 2irst* let 0s s1ea6 o2 r0nnin. and swi2tness/
Cle/ 8ery .ood/
At-/ Certainly t-e most military o2 all ;0alities is .eneral
a,ti4ity o2 body* w-et-er o2 2oot or -and/ "or es,a1in. or 2or
,a1t0rin. an enemy* ;0i,6ness o2 2oot is re;0ired) b0t -and9to9-and
,on2li,t and ,ombat need 4i.o0r and stren.t-/
Cle/ 8ery tr0e/
At-/ !eit-er o2 t-em ,an attain t-eir .reatest e22i,ien,y wit-o0t
arms/
Cle/ $ow ,an t-ey3
At-/ #-en o0r -erald* in a,,ordan,e wit- t-e 1re4ailin. 1ra,ti,e*
will 2irst s0mmon t-e r0nner)9-e will a11ear armed* 2or to an
0narmed ,om1etitor we will not .i4e a 1ri<e/ And -e s-all enter
2irst w-o is to r0n t-e sin.le ,o0rse bearin. arms) ne:t* -e w-o is to
r0n t-e do0ble ,o0rse) t-ird* -e w-o is to r0n t-e -orse9,o0rse) and
2o0rt-ly* -e w-o is to r0n t-e lon. ,o0rse) t-e 2i2t- w-om we start*
s-all be t-e 2irst sent 2ort- in -ea4y armo0r* and s-all r0n a
,o0rse o2 si:ty stadia to some tem1le o2 Ares9and we will send 2ort-
anot-er* w-om we will style t-e more -ea4ily armed* to r0n o4er
smoot-er .ro0nd/ #-ere remains t-e ar,-er) and -e s-all r0n in t-e
20ll e;0i1ments o2 an ar,-er a distan,e o2 H00 stadia o4er
mo0ntains* and a,ross e4ery sort o2 ,o0ntry* to a tem1le o2 A1ollo and
Artemis) t-is s-all be t-e order o2 t-e ,ontest* and we will wait
2or t-em 0ntil t-ey ret0rn* and will .i4e a 1ri<e to t-e ,on;0eror
in ea,-/
Cle/ 8ery .ood/
At-/ Let 0s s011ose t-at t-ere are t-ree 6inds o2 ,ontests9one o2
boys* anot-er o2 beardless yo0t-s* and a t-ird o2 men/ "or t-e
yo0t-s we will 2i: t-e len.t- o2 t-e ,ontest at two9t-irds* and 2or
t-e boys at -al2 o2 t-e entire ,o0rse* w-et-er t-ey ,ontend as ar,-ers
or as -ea4y armed/ #o0,-in. t-e women* let t-e .irls w-o are not .rown
01 ,om1ete na6ed in t-e stadi0m and t-e do0ble ,o0rse* and t-e
-orse9,o0rse and t-e lon. ,o0rse* and let t-em r0n on t-e
ra,e9.ro0nd itsel2) t-ose w-o are t-irteen years o2 a.e and 01wards
0ntil t-eir marria.e s-all ,ontin0e to s-are in ,ontests i2 t-ey are
not more t-an twenty* and s-all be ,om1elled to r0n 01 to ei.-teen)
and t-ey s-all des,end into t-e arena in s0itable dresses/ Let t-ese
be t-e re.0lations abo0t ,ontests in r0nnin. bot- 2or men and women/
es1e,tin. ,ontests o2 stren.t-* instead o2 wrestlin. and similar
,ontests o2 t-e -ea4ier sort* we will instit0te ,on2li,ts in armo0r o2
one a.ainst one* and two a.ainst two* and so on 01 to ten a.ainst ten/
As to w-at a man o0.-t not to s022er or do* and to w-at e:tent* in
order to .ain t-e 4i,tory9as in wrestlin.* t-e masters o2 t-e art -a4e
laid down w-at is 2air and w-at is not 2air* so in 2i.-tin. in
armo0r9we o0.-t to ,all in s6il20l 1ersons* w-o s-all j0d.e 2or 0s and
be o0r assessors in t-e wor6 o2 le.islation) t-ey s-all say w-o
deser4es to be 4i,tor in ,ombats o2 t-is sort* and w-at -e is not to
do or -a4e done to -im* and in li6e manner w-at r0le determines w-o is
de2eated) and let t-ese ordinan,es a11ly to women 0ntil t-ey married
as well as to men/ #-e 1an,ration s-all -a4e a ,o0nter1art in a ,ombat
o2 t-e li.-t armed) t-ey s-all ,ontend wit- bows and wit- li.-t
s-ields and wit- ja4elins and in t-e t-rowin. o2 stones by slin.s
and by -and( and laws s-all be made abo0t it* and rewards and 1ri<es
.i4en to -im w-o best 20l2ils t-e ordinan,es o2 t-e law/
!e:t in order we s-all -a4e to le.islate abo0t t-e -orse ,ontests/
!ow we do not need many -orses* 2or t-ey ,annot be o2 m0,- 0se in a
,o0ntry li6e Crete* and -en,e we nat0rally do not ta6e .reat 1ains
abo0t t-e rearin. o2 t-em or abo0t -orse ra,es/ #-ere is no one w-o
6ee1s a ,-ariot amon. 0s* and any ri4alry in s0,- matters wo0ld be
alto.et-er o0t o2 1la,e) t-ere wo0ld be no sense nor any s-adow o2
sense in instit0tin. ,ontests w-i,- are not a2ter t-e manner o2 o0r
,o0ntry/ And t-ere2ore we .i4e o0r 1ri<es 2or sin.le -orses92or
,olts w-o -a4e not yet ,ast t-eir teet-* and 2or t-ose w-o are
intermediate* and 2or t-e 20ll9.rown -orses t-emsel4es) and t-0s o0r
e;0estrian .ames will a,,ord wit- t-e nat0re o2 t-e ,o0ntry/ Let
t-em -a4e ,on2li,t and ri4alry in t-ese matters in a,,ordan,e wit- t-e
law* and let t-e ,olonels and .enerals o2 -orse de,ide to.et-er
abo0t all ,o0rses and abo0t t-e armed ,om1etitors in t-em/ B0t we -a4e
not-in. to say to t-e 0narmed eit-er in .ymnasti, e:er,ises or in
t-ese ,ontests/ On t-e ot-er -and* t-e Cretan bowman or ja4elin9man
w-o 2i.-ts in armo0r on -orseba,6 is 0se20l* and t-ere2ore we may as
well 1la,e a ,om1etition o2 t-is sort amon. am0sements/ Women are
not to be 2or,ed to ,om1ete by laws and ordinan,es) b0t i2 2rom
1re4io0s trainin. t-ey -a4e a,;0ired t-e -abit and are stron. eno0.-
and li6e to ta6e 1art* let t-em do so* .irls as well as boys* and no
blame to t-em/
#-0s t-e ,om1etition in .ymnasti, and t-e mode o2 learnin. it -a4e
been des,ribed) and we -a4e s1o6en also o2 t-e toils o2 t-e ,ontest*
and o2 daily e:er,ises 0nder t-e s01erintenden,e o2 masters/ Li6ewise*
w-at relates to m0si, -as been* 2or t-e most 1art* ,om1leted/ B0t as
to r-a1sodes and t-e li6e* and t-e ,ontests o2 ,-or0ses w-i,- are to
1er2orm at 2easts* all t-is s-all be arran.ed w-en t-e mont-s and days
and years -a4e been a11ointed 2or &ods and demi9.ods* w-et-er e4ery
t-ird year* or a.ain e4ery 2i2t- year* or in w-ate4er way or manner
t-e &ods may 10t into men=s minds t-e distrib0tion and order o2
t-em/ At t-e same time* we may e:1e,t t-at t-e m0si,al ,ontests will
be ,elebrated in t-eir t0rn by t-e ,ommand o2 t-e j0d.es and t-e
dire,tor o2 ed0,ation and t-e .0ardians o2 t-e law meetin. to.et-er
2or t-is 10r1ose* and t-emsel4es be,omin. le.islators o2 t-e times and
nat0re and ,onditions o2 t-e ,-oral ,ontests and o2 dan,in. in
.eneral/ W-at t-ey o0.-t se4erally to be in lan.0a.e and son.* and
in t-e admi:t0re o2 -armony wit- r-yt-m and t-e dan,e* -as been
o2ten de,lared by t-e ori.inal le.islator) and -is s0,,essors o0.-t to
2ollow -im* ma6in. t-e .ames and sa,ri2i,es d0ly to ,orres1ond at
2ittin. times* and a11ointin. 10bli, 2esti4als/ It is not di22i,0lt to
determine -ow t-ese and t-e li6e matters may -a4e a re.0lar order)
nor* a.ain* will t-e alteration o2 t-em do any .reat .ood or -arm to
t-e state/ #-ere is* -owe4er* anot-er matter o2 .reat im1ortan,e and
di22i,0lty* ,on,ernin. w-i,- &od s-o0ld le.islate* i2 t-ere were any
1ossibility o2 obtainin. 2rom -im an ordinan,e abo0t it/ B0t seein.
t-at di4ine aid is not to be -ad* t-ere a11ears to be a need o2 some
bold man w-o s1e,ially -ono0rs 1lainness o2 s1ee,-* and will say
o0tri.-t w-at -e t-in6s best 2or t-e ,ity and ,iti<ens9ordainin.
w-at is .ood and ,on4enient 2or t-e w-ole state amid t-e ,orr01tions
o2 -0man so0ls* o11osin. t-e mi.-tiest l0sts* and -a4in. no man -is
-el1er b0t -imsel2 standin. alone and 2ollowin. reason only/
Cle/ W-at is t-is* Stran.er* t-at yo0 are sayin.3 "or we do not as
yet 0nderstand yo0r meanin./
At-/ 8ery li6ely) I will endea4o0r to e:1lain mysel2 more ,learly/
W-en I ,ame to t-e s0bje,t o2 ed0,ation* I be-eld yo0n. men and
maidens -oldin. 2riendly inter,o0rse wit- one anot-er/ And t-ere
nat0rally arose in my mind a sort o2 a11re-ension9I ,o0ld not -el1
t-in6in. -ow one is to deal wit- a ,ity in w-i,- yo0t-s and maidens
are well n0rt0red* and -a4e not-in. to do* and are not 0nder.oin.
t-e e:,essi4e and ser4ile toils w-i,- e:tin.0is- wantonness* and w-ose
only ,ares d0rin. t-eir w-ole li2e are sa,ri2i,es and 2esti4als and
dan,es/ $ow* in s0,- a state as t-is* will t-ey abstain 2rom desires
w-i,- t-r0st many a man and woman into 1erdition) and 2rom w-i,-
reason* ass0min. t-e 20n,tions o2 law* ,ommands t-em to abstain3 #-e
ordinan,es already made may 1ossibly .et t-e better o2 most o2 t-ese
desires) t-e 1ro-ibition o2 e:,essi4e wealt- is a 4ery ,onsiderable
.ain in t-e dire,tion o2 tem1eran,e* and t-e w-ole ed0,ation o2 o0r
yo0t- im1oses a law o2 moderation on t-em) moreo4er* t-e eye o2 t-e
r0lers is re;0ired always to wat,- o4er t-e yo0n.* and ne4er to lose
si.-t o2 t-em) and t-ese 1ro4isions do* as 2ar as -0man means ,an
e22e,t anyt-in.* e:er,ise a re.0latin. in2l0en,e 01on t-e desires in
.eneral/ B0t -ow ,an we ta6e 1re,a0tions a.ainst t-e 0nnat0ral lo4es
o2 eit-er se:* 2rom w-i,- inn0merable e4ils -a4e ,ome 01on indi4id0als
and ,ities3 $ow s-all we de4ise a remedy and way o2 es,a1e o0t o2 so
.reat a dan.er3 #r0ly* Cleinias* -ere is a di22i,0lty/ In many ways
Crete and La,edaemon 20rnis- a .reat -el1 to t-ose w-o ma6e 1e,0liar
laws) b0t in t-e matter o2 lo4e* as we are alone* I m0st ,on2ess
t-at t-ey are ;0ite a.ainst 0s/ "or i2 any one 2ollowin. nat0re s-o0ld
lay down t-e law w-i,- e:isted be2ore t-e days o2 Lai0s* and
deno0n,e t-ese l0sts as ,ontrary to nat0re* add0,in. t-e animals as
a 1roo2 t-at s0,- 0nions were monstro0s* -e mi.-t 1ro4e -is 1oint* b0t
-e wo0ld be w-olly at 4arian,e wit- t-e ,0stom o2 yo0r states/
"0rt-er* t-ey are re10.nant to a 1rin,i1le w-i,- we say t-at a
le.islator s-o0ld always obser4e) 2or we are always en;0irin. w-i,- o2
o0r ena,tments tends to 4irt0e and w-i,- not/ And s011ose we .rant
t-at t-ese lo4es are a,,o0nted by law to be -ono0rable* or at least
not dis.ra,e20l* in w-at de.ree will t-ey ,ontrib0te to 4irt0e3 Will
s0,- 1assions im1lant in t-e so0l o2 -im w-o is sed0,ed t-e -abit o2
,o0ra.e* or in t-e so0l o2 t-e sed0,er t-e 1rin,i1le o2 tem1eran,e3
W-o will e4er belie4e t-is39or rat-er* w-o will not blame t-e
e22emina,y o2 -im w-o yields to 1leas0res and is 0nable to -old o0t
a.ainst t-em3 Will not all men ,ens0re as womanly -im w-o imitates t-e
woman3 And w-o wo0ld e4er t-in6 o2 establis-in. s0,- a 1ra,ti,e by
law3 Certainly no one w-o -ad in -is mind t-e ima.e o2 tr0e law/ $ow
,an we 1ro4e* t-at w-at I am sayin. is tr0e3 $e w-o wo0ld ri.-tly
,onsider t-ese matters m0st see t-e nat0re o2 2riends-i1 and desire*
and o2 t-ese so9,alled lo4es* 2or t-ey are o2 two 6inds* and o0t o2
t-e two arises a t-ird 6ind* -a4in. t-e same name) and t-is similarity
o2 name ,a0ses all t-e di22i,0lty and obs,0rity/
Cle/ $ow is t-at3
At-/ %ear is t-e li6e in 4irt0e to t-e li6e* and t-e e;0al to t-e
e;0al) dear also* t-o0.- 0nli6e* is -e w-o -as ab0ndan,e to -im w-o is
in want/ And w-en eit-er o2 t-ese 2riends-i1s be,omes e:,essi4e* we
term t-e e:,ess lo4e/
Cle/ 8ery tr0e/
At-/ #-e 2riends-i1 w-i,- arises 2rom ,ontraries is -orrible and
,oarse* and -as o2ten no tie o2 ,omm0nion) b0t t-at w-i,-* arises 2rom
li6eness is .entle* and -as a tie o2 ,omm0nion w-i,- lasts t-ro0.-
li2e/ As to t-e mi:ed sort w-i,- is made 01 o2 t-em bot-* t-ere is*
2irst o2 all* a in determinin. w-at -e w-o is 1ossessed by t-is
t-ird lo4e desires) moreo4er* -e is drawn di22erent ways* and is in
do0bt between t-e two 1rin,i1les) t-e one e:-ortin. -im to enjoy t-e
bea0ty o2 yo0t-* and t-e ot-er 2orbiddin. -im/ "or t-e one is a
lo4er o2 t-e body* and -0n.ers a2ter bea0ty* li6e ri1e 2r0it* and
wo0ld 2ain satis2y -imsel2 wit-o0t any re.ard to t-e ,-ara,ter o2
t-e belo4ed) t-e ot-er -olds t-e desire o2 t-e body to be a
se,ondary matter* and loo6in. rat-er t-an lo4in. and wit- -is so0l
desirin. t-e so0l o2 t-e ot-er in a be,omin. manner* re.ards t-e
satis2a,tion o2 t-e bodily lo4e as wantonness) -e re4eren,es and
res1e,ts tem1eran,e and ,o0ra.e and ma.nanimity and wisdom* and wis-es
to li4e ,-astely wit- t-e ,-aste obje,t o2 -is a22e,tion/ !ow t-e sort
o2 lo4e w-i,- is made 01 o2 t-e ot-er two is t-at w-i,- we -a4e
des,ribed as t-e t-ird/ Seein. t-en t-at t-ere are t-ese t-ree sorts
o2 lo4e* o0.-t t-e law to 1ro-ibit and 2orbid t-em all to e:ist
amon. 0s3 Is it not rat-er ,lear t-at we s-o0ld wis- to -a4e in t-e
state t-e lo4e w-i,- is o2 4irt0e and w-i,- desires t-e belo4ed
yo0t- to be t-e best 1ossible) and t-e ot-er two* i2 1ossible* we
s-o0ld -inder3 W-at do yo0 say* 2riend +e.ill0s3
+e.ill0s/ I t-in6* Stran.er* t-at yo0 are 1er2e,tly ri.-t in w-at
yo0 -a4e been now sayin./
At-/ I 6new well* my 2riend* t-at I s-o0ld obtain yo0r assent* w-i,-
I a,,e1t* and t-ere2ore -a4e no need to analyse yo0r ,0stom any
20rt-er/ Cleinias s-all be 1re4ailed 01on to .i4e me -is assent at
some ot-er time/ Eno0.- o2 t-is) and now let 0s 1ro,eed to t-e laws/
+e./ 8ery .ood/
At-/ '1on re2le,tion I see a way o2 im1osin. t-e law* w-i,-* in
one res1e,t* is easy* b0t* in anot-er* is o2 t-e 0tmost di22i,0lty/
+e./ W-at do yo0 mean3
At-/ We are all aware t-at most men* in s1ite o2 t-eir lawless
nat0res* are 4ery stri,tly and 1re,isely restrained 2rom inter,o0rse
wit- t-e 2air* and t-is is not at all a.ainst t-eir will* b0t entirely
wit- t-eir will/
+e./ W-en do yo0 mean3
At-/ W-en any one -as a brot-er or sister w-o is 2air) and abo0t a
son or da0.-ter t-e same 0nwritten law -olds* and is a most 1er2e,t
sa2e.0ard* so t-at no o1en or se,ret ,onne,tion e4er ta6es 1la,e
between t-em/ !or does t-e t-o0.-t o2 s0,- a t-in. e4er enter at all
into t-e minds o2 most o2 t-em/
+e./ 8ery tr0e/
At-/ %oes not a little word e:tin.0is- all 1leas0res o2 t-at sort3
+e./ W-at word3
At-/ #-e de,laration t-at t-ey are 0n-oly* -ated o2 &od* and most
in2amo0s) and is not t-e reason o2 t-is t-at no one -as e4er said
t-e o11osite* b0t e4ery one 2rom -is earliest ,-ild-ood -as -eard
men s1ea6in. in t-e same manner abo0t t-em always and e4eryw-ere*
w-et-er in ,omedy or in t-e .ra4er lan.0a.e o2 tra.edy3 W-en t-e
1oet introd0,es on t-e sta.e a #-yestes or an Oedi10s* or a +a,are0s
-a4in. se,ret inter,o0rse wit- -is sister* -e re1resents -im* w-en
2o0nd o0t* ready to 6ill -imsel2 as t-e 1enalty o2 -is sin/
+e./ 7o0 are 4ery ri.-t in sayin. t-at tradition* i2 no breat- o2
o11osition e4er assails it* -as a mar4ello0s 1ower/
At-/ Am I not also ri.-t in sayin. t-at t-e le.islator w-o wants
to master any o2 t-e 1assions w-i,- master man may easily 6now -ow
to s0bd0e t-em3 $e will ,onse,rate t-e tradition o2 t-eir e4il
,-ara,ter amon. all* sla4es and 2reemen* women and ,-ildren*
t-ro0.-o0t t-e ,ity(9t-at will be t-e s0rest 2o0ndation o2 t-e law
w-i,- -e ,an ma6e/
+e./ 7es) b0t will -e e4er s0,,eed in ma6in. all man6ind 0se t-e
same lan.0a.e abo0t t-em3
At-/ A .ood obje,tion) b0t was I not j0st now sayin. t-at I -ad a
way to ma6e men 0se nat0ral lo4e and abstain 2rom 0nnat0ral* not
intentionally destroyin. t-e seeds o2 -0man in,rease* or sowin. t-em
in stony 1la,es* in w-i,- t-ey will ta6e no root) and t-at I wo0ld
,ommand t-em to abstain too 2rom any 2emale 2ield o2 in,rease in w-i,-
t-at w-i,- is sown is not li6ely to .row3 !ow i2 a law to t-is
e22e,t ,o0ld only be made 1er1et0al* and .ain an a0t-ority s0,- as
already 1re4ents inter,o0rse o2 1arents and ,-ildren9s0,- a law*
e:tendin. to ot-er sens0al desires* and ,on;0erin. t-em* wo0ld be
t-e so0r,e o2 ten t-o0sand blessin.s/ "or* in t-e 2irst 1la,e*
moderation is t-e a11ointment o2 nat0re* and deters men 2rom all
2ren<y and madness o2 lo4e* and 2rom all ad0lteries and immoderate 0se
o2 meats and drin6s* and ma6es t-em .ood 2riends to t-eir own wi4es/
And inn0merable ot-er bene2its wo0ld res0lt i2 s0,- a ,o0ld only be
en2or,ed/ I ,an ima.ine some l0sty yo0t- w-o is standin. by* and
w-o* on -earin. t-is ena,tment* de,lares in s,0rrilo0s terms t-at we
are ma6in. 2oolis- and im1ossible laws* and 2ills t-e world wit- -is
o0t,ry/ And t-ere2ore I said t-at I 6new a way o2 ena,tin. and
1er1et0atin. s0,- a law* w-i,- was 4ery easy in one res1e,t* b0t in
anot-er most di22i,0lt/ #-ere is no di22i,0lty in seein. t-at s0,- a
law is 1ossible* and in w-at way) 2or* as I was sayin.* t-e
ordinan,e on,e ,onse,rated wo0ld master t-e so0l o2* e4ery man* and
terri2y -im into obedien,e/ B0t matters -a4e now ,ome to s0,- a 1ass
t-at e4en t-en t-e desired res0lt seems as i2 it ,o0ld not be
attained* j0st as t-e ,ontin0an,e o2 an entire state in t-e 1ra,ti,e
o2 ,ommon meals is also deemed im1ossible/ And alt-o0.- t-is latter is
1artly dis1ro4en by t-e 2a,t o2 t-eir e:isten,e amon. yo0* still
e4en in yo0r ,ities t-e ,ommon meals o2 women wo0ld be re.arded as
0nnat0ral and im1ossible/ I was t-in6in. o2 t-e rebellio0sness o2
t-e -0man -eart w-en I said t-at t-e 1ermanent establis-ment o2
t-ese t-in.s is 4ery di22i,0lt/
+e./ 8ery tr0e/
At-/ S-all I try and 2ind some sort o2 1ers0asi4e ar.0ment w-i,-
will 1ro4e to yo0 t-at s0,- ena,tments are 1ossible* and not beyond
-0man nat0re3
Cle/ By all means/
At-/ Is a man more li6ely to abstain 2rom t-e 1leas0res o2 lo4e
and to do w-at -e is bidden abo0t t-em* w-en -is body is in a .ood
,ondition* or w-en -e is in an ill ,ondition* and o0t o2 trainin.3
Cle/ $e will be 2ar more tem1erate w-en -e is in trainin./
At-/ And -a4e we not -eard o2 I,,0s o2 #arent0m* w-o* wit- a 4iew to
t-e Olym1i, and ot-er ,ontests* in -is <eal 2or -is art* ind also
be,a0se -e was o2 a manly and tem1erate dis1osition* ne4er -ad any
,onne,tion wit- a woman or a yo0t- d0rin. t-e w-ole time o2 -is
trainin.3 And t-e same is said o2 Crison and Astyl0s and %io1om10s and
many ot-ers) and yet* Cleinias* t-ey were 2ar worse ed0,ated in
t-eir minds t-an yo0r and my ,iti<ens* and in t-eir bodies 2ar more
l0sty/
Cle/ !o do0bt t-is 2a,t -as been o2ten a22irmed 1ositi4ely by t-e
an,ients o2 t-ese at-letes/
At-/ And -ad t-ey) ,o0ra.e to abstain 2rom w-at is ordinarilly
deemed a 1leas0re 2or t-e sa6e o2 a 4i,tory in wrestlin.* r0nnin.* and
t-e li6e) and s-all o0r yo0n. men be in,a1able o2 a similar
end0ran,e 2or t-e sa6e o2 a m0,- nobler 4i,tory* w-i,- is t-e
noblest o2 all* as 2rom t-eir yo0t- 01wards we will tell t-em*
,-armin. t-em* as we -o1e* into t-e belie2 o2 t-is by tales and
sayin.s and son.s3
Cle/ O2 w-at 4i,tory are yo0 s1ea6in.3
At-/ O2 t-e 4i,tory o4er 1leas0re* w-i,- i2 t-ey win* t-ey will li4e
-a11ily) or i2 t-ey are ,on;0ered* t-e re4erse o2 -a11ily/ And*
20rt-er* may we not s011ose t-at t-e 2ear o2 im1iety will enable
t-em to master t-at w-i,- ot-er in2erior 1eo1le -a4e mastered3
Cle/ I dare say/
At-/ And sin,e we -a4e rea,-ed t-is 1oint in o0r le.islation* and
-a4e 2allen into a di22i,0lty by reason o2 t-e 4i,es o2 man6ind* I
a22irm t-at o0r ordinan,e s-o0ld sim1ly r0n in t-e 2ollowin. terms(
O0r ,iti<ens o0.-t not to 2all below t-e nat0re o2 birds and beasts in
.eneral* w-o are born in .reat m0ltit0des* and yet remain 0ntil t-e
a.e 2or 1ro,reation 4ir.in and 0nmarried* b0t w-en t-ey -a4e rea,-ed
t-e 1ro1er time o2 li2e are ,o01led* male and 2emale* and lo4in.ly
1air to.et-er* and li4e t-e rest o2 t-eir li4es in -oliness and
inno,en,e* abidin. 2irmly in t-eir ori.inal ,om1a,t(9s0rely* we will
say to t-em* yo0 s-o0ld be better t-an t-e animals/ B0t i2 t-ey are
,orr01ted by t-e ot-er $ellenes and t-e ,ommon 1ra,ti,e o2 barbarians*
and t-ey see wit- t-eir eyes and -ear wit- t-eir ears o2 t-e so9,alled
2ree lo4e e4eryw-ere 1re4ailin. amon. t-em* and t-ey t-emsel4es are
not able to .et t-e better o2 t-e tem1tation* t-e .0ardians o2 t-e
law* e:er,isin. t-e 20n,tions o2 law.i4ers* s-all de4ise a se,ond
law a.ainst t-em/
Cle/ And w-at law wo0ld yo0 ad4ise t-em to 1ass i2 t-is one 2ailed3
At-/ Clearly* Cleinias* t-e one w-i,- wo0ld nat0rally 2ollow/
Cle/ W-at is t-at3
At-/ O0r ,iti<ens s-o0ld not allow 1leas0res to stren.t-en wit-
ind0l.en,e* b0t s-o0ld by toil di4ert t-e aliment and e:0beran,e o2
t-em into ot-er 1arts o2 t-e body) and t-is will -a11en i2 no
immodesty be allowed in t-e 1ra,ti,e o2 lo4e/ #-en t-ey will be
as-amed o2 2re;0ent inter,o0rse* and t-ey will 2ind 1leas0re* i2
seldom enjoyed* to be a less im1erio0s mistress/ #-ey s-o0ld not be
2o0nd o0t doin. anyt-in. o2 t-e sort/ Con,ealment s-all be -ono0rable*
and san,tioned by ,0stom and made law by 0nwritten 1res,ri1tion) on
t-e ot-er -and* to be dete,ted s-all be esteemed dis-ono0rable* b0t
not* to abstain w-olly/ In t-is way t-ere will be a se,ond le.al
standard o2 -ono0rable and dis-ono0rable* in4ol4in. a se,ond notion o2
ri.-t/ #-ree 1rin,i1les will ,om1re-end all t-ose ,orr01t nat0res w-om
we ,all in2erior to t-emsel4es* and w-o 2orm b0t one dass* and will
,om1el t-em not to trans.ress/
Cle/ W-at are t-ey3
At-/ #-e 1rin,i1le o2 1iety* t-e lo4e o2 -ono0r* and t-e desire o2
bea0ty* not in t-e body b0t in t-e so0l/ #-ese are* 1er-a1s*
romanti, as1irations) b0t t-ey are t-e noblest o2 as1irations* i2 t-ey
,o0ld only be reali<ed in all states* and* &od willin.* in t-e
matter o2 lo4e we may be able to en2or,e one o2 two t-in.s9eit-er t-at
no one s-all 4ent0re to to0,- any 1erson o2 t-e 2reeborn or noble
,lass e:,e1t -is wedded wi2e* or sow t-e 0n,onse,rated and bastard
seed amon. -arlots* or in barren and 0nnat0ral l0sts) or at least we
may abolis- alto.et-er t-e ,onne,tion o2 men wit- men) and as to
women* i2 any man -as to do wit- any b0t t-ose w-o ,ome into -is -o0se
d0ly married by sa,red rites* w-et-er t-ey be bo0.-t or a,;0ired in
any ot-er way* and -e o22ends 10bli,ly in t-e 2a,e o2 all man6ind*
we s-all be ri.-t in ena,tin. t-at -e be de1ri4ed o2 ,i4i, -ono0rs and
1ri4ile.es* and be deemed to be* as -e tr0ly is* a stran.er/ Let
t-is law* t-en* w-et-er it is one* or o0.-t rat-er to be ,alled two*
be laid down res1e,tin. lo4e in .eneral* and t-e inter,o0rse o2 t-e
se:es w-i,- arises o0t o2 t-e desires* w-et-er ri.-tly or wron.ly
ind0l.ed/
+e./ I* 2or my 1art* Stran.er* wo0ld .ladly re,ei4e t-is law/
Cleinias s-all s1ea6 2or -imsel2* and tell yo0 w-at is -is o1inion/
Cle/ I will* +e.ill0s* w-en an o11ort0nity o22ers) at 1resent* I
t-in6 t-at we -ad better allow t-e Stran.er to 1ro,eed wit- -is laws/
+e./ 8ery .ood/
At-/ We -ad .ot abo0t as 2ar as t-e establis-ment o2 t-e ,ommon
tables* w-i,- in most 1la,es wo0ld be di22i,0lt* b0t in Crete no one
wo0ld t-in6 o2 introd0,in. any ot-er ,0stom/ #-ere mi.-t arise a
;0estion abo0t t-e manner o2 t-em9w-et-er t-ey s-all be s0,- as t-ey
are -ere in Crete* or s0,- as t-ey are in La,edaemon*9or is t-ere a
t-ird 6ind w-i,- may be better t-an eit-er o2 t-em3 #-e answer to t-is
;0estion mi.-t be easily dis,o4ered* b0t t-e dis,o4ery wo0ld do no
.reat .ood* 2or at 1resent t-ey are 4ery well ordered/
Lea4in. t-e ,ommon tables* we may t-ere2ore 1ro,eed to t-e means
o2 1ro4idin. 2ood/ !ow* in ,ities t-e means o2 li2e are .ained in many
ways and 2rom di4ers so0r,es* and in .eneral 2rom two so0r,es* w-ereas
o0r ,ity -as only one/ "or most o2 t-e $ellenes obtain t-eir 2ood 2rom
sea and land* b0t o0r ,iti<ens 2rom land only/ And t-is ma6es t-e tas6
o2 t-e le.islator less di22i,0lt9-al2 as many laws will be eno0.-* and
m0,- less t-an -al2) and t-ey will be o2 a 6ind better s0ited to
2ree men/ "or -e -as not-in. to do wit- laws abo0t s-i1owners and
mer,-ants and retailers and inn6ee1ers and ta: ,olle,tors and mines
and moneylendin. and ,om1o0nd interest and inn0merable ot-er
t-in.s9biddin. .ood9bye to t-ese* -e .i4es laws to -0sbandmen and
s-e1-erds and bee96ee1ers* and to t-e .0ardians and s01erintendents o2
t-eir im1lements) and -e -as already le.islated 2or .reater matters*
as 2or e:am1le* res1e,tin. marria.e and t-e 1ro,reation and n0rt0re o2
,-ildren* and 2or ed0,ation* and t-e establis-ment o2 o22i,es9and
now -e m0st dire,t -is laws to t-ose w-o 1ro4ide 2ood and labo0r in
1re1arin. it/
Let 0s 2irst o2 all* t-en* -a4e a ,lass o2 laws w-i,- s-all be
,alled t-e laws o2 -0sbandmen/ And let t-e 2irst o2 t-em be t-e law o2
5e0s* t-e .od o2 bo0ndaries/ Let no one s-i2t t-e bo0ndary line eit-er
o2 a 2ellow9,iti<en w-o is a nei.-bo0r* or* i2 -e dwells at t-e
e:tremity o2 t-e land* o2 any stran.er w-o is ,ontermino0s wit- -im*
,onsiderin. t-at t-is is tr0ly Ato mo4e t-e immo4able*A and e4ery
one s-o0ld be more willin. to mo4e t-e lar.est ro,6 w-i,- is not a
landmar6* t-an t-e least stone w-i,- is t-e sworn mar6 o2 2riends-i1
and -atred between nei.-bo0rs) 2or 5e0s* t-e .od o2 6indred* is t-e
witness o2 t-e ,iti<en* and 5e0s* t-e .od o2 stran.ers* o2 t-e
stran.er* and w-en aro0sed* terrible are t-e wars w-i,- t-ey stir
01/ $e w-o obeys t-e law will ne4er 6now t-e 2atal ,onse;0en,es o2
disobedien,e* b0t -e w-o des1ises t-e law s-all be liable to a
do0ble 1enalty* t-e 2irst ,omin. 2rom t-e &ods* and t-e se,ond 2rom
t-e law/ "or let no one wil20lly remo4e t-e bo0ndaries o2 -is
nei.-bo0r=s land* and i2 any one does* let -im w-o will in2orm t-e
landowners* and let t-em brin. -im into ,o0rt* and i2 -e be
,on4i,ted o2 re9di4idin. t-e land by stealt- or by 2or,e* let t-e
,o0rt determine w-at -e o0.-t to s022er or 1ay/ In t-e ne:t 1la,e*
many small inj0ries done by nei.-bo0rs to one anot-er* t-ro0.- t-eir
m0lti1li,ation* may ,a0se a wei.-t o2 enmity* and ma6e nei.-bo0r-ood a
4ery disa.reeable and bitter t-in./ W-ere2ore a man o0.-t to be 4ery
,are20l o2 ,ommittin. any o22en,e a.ainst -is nei.-bo0r* and
es1e,ially o2 en,roa,-in. on -is nei.-bo0r=s land) 2or any man may
easily do -arm* b0t not e4ery man ,an do .ood to anot-er/ $e w-o
en,roa,-es on -is nei.-bo0r=s land* and trans.resses -is bo0ndaries*
s-all ma6e .ood t-e dama.e* and* to ,0re -im o2 -is im10den,e and also
o2 -is meanness* -e s-all 1ay a do0ble 1enalty to t-e inj0red 1arty/
O2 t-ese and t-e li6e matters t-e wardens o2 t-e ,o0ntry s-all ta6e
,o.ni<an,e* and be t-e j0d.es o2 t-em and assessors o2 t-e dama.e)
in t-e more im1ortant ,ases* as -as been already said* t-e w-ole
n0mber o2 t-em belon.in. to any one o2 t-e twel4e di4isions s-all
de,ide* and in t-e lesser ,ases t-e ,ommanders( or* a.ain* i2 any
one 1ast0res -is ,attle on -is nei.-bo0r=s land* t-ey s-all see t-e
inj0ry* and adj0d.e t-e 1enalty/ And i2 any one* by de,oyin. t-e bees*
.ets 1ossession o2 anot-er=s swarms* and draws t-em to -imsel2 by
ma6in. noises* -e s-all 1ay t-e dama.e) or i2 anyone sets 2ire to
-is own wood and ta6es no ,are o2 -is nei.-bo0r=s 1ro1erty* -e s-all
be 2ined at t-e dis,retion o2 t-e ma.istrates/ And i2 in 1lantin. -e
does not lea4e a 2air distan,e between -is own and -is nei.-bo0r=s
land* -e s-all be 10nis-ed* in a,,ordan,e wit- t-e ena,tments o2
many law .i4ers* w-i,- we may 0se* not deemin. it ne,essary t-at t-e
.reat le.islator o2 o0r state s-o0ld determine all t-e tri2les w-i,-
mi.-t be de,ided by any body) 2or e:am1le* -0sbandmen -a4e -ad o2
old e:,ellent laws abo0t waters* and t-ere is no reason w-y we
s-o0ld 1ro1ose to di4ert t-eir ,o0rse( w-o li6es may draw water 2rom
t-e 2o0ntain9-ead o2 t-e ,ommon stream on to -is own land* i2 -e do
not ,0t o22 t-e s1rin. w-i,- ,learly belon.s to some ot-er owner)
and -e may ta6e t-e water in any dire,tion w-i,- -e 1leases* e:,e1t
t-ro0.- a -o0se or tem1le or se10l,-re* b0t -e m0st be ,are20l to do
no -arm beyond t-e ,-annel/ And i2 t-ere be in any 1la,e a nat0ral
dryness o2 t-e eart-* w-i,- 6ee1s in t-e rain 2rom -ea4en* and
,a0ses a de2i,ien,y in t-e s011ly o2 water* let -im di. down on -is
own land as 2ar as t-e ,lay* and i2 at t-is de1t- -e 2inds no water*
let -im obtain water 2rom -is nei.-bo0rs* as m0,-* as is re;0ired
2or -is ser4ants= drin6in.* and i2 -is nei.-bo0rs* too* are limited in
t-eir s011ly* let -im -a4e a 2i:ed meas0re* w-i,- s-all be
determined by t-e wardens o2 t-e ,o0ntry/ #-is -e s-all re,ei4e ea,-
day* and on t-ese terms -a4e a s-are o2 -is nei.-bo0rs= water/ I2
t-ere be -ea4y rain* and one o2 t-ose on t-e lower .ro0nd inj0res some
tiller o2 t-e 011er .ro0nd* or some one w-o -as a ,ommon wall* by
re20sin. to .i4e t-e man o0tlet 2or water) or* a.ain* i2 some one
li4in. on t-e -i.-er .ro0nd re,6lessly lets o22 t-e water on -is lower
nei.-bo0r* and t-ey ,annot ,ome to terms wit- one anot-er* let -im w-o
will ,all in a warden o2 t-e ,ity* i2 -e be in t-e ,ity* or i2 -e be
in t-e ,o0ntry* warden o2 t-e ,o0ntry* and let -im obtain a de,ision
determinin. w-at ea,- o2 t-em is to do/ And -e w-o will not abide by
t-e de,ision s-all s022er 2or -is mali.nant and morose tem1er* and 1ay
a 2ine to t-e inj0red 1arty* e;0i4alent to do0ble t-e 4al0e o2 t-e
inj0ry* be,a0se -e was 0nwillin. to s0bmit to t-e ma.istrates/
!ow t-e 1arti,i1ation o2 2r0its s-all be ordered on t-is wise/ #-e
.oddess o2 A0t0mn -as two .ra,io0s .i2ts( one* t-e joy o2 %ionys0s
w-i,- is not treas0red 01) t-e ot-er* w-i,- nat0re intends to be
stored/ Let t-is be t-e law* t-en* ,on,ernin. t-e 2r0its o2 a0t0mn( $e
w-o tastes t-e ,ommon or storin. 2r0its o2 a0t0mn* w-et-er .ra1es or
2i.s* be2ore t-e season o2 4inta.e w-i,- ,oin,ides wit- Ar,t0r0s*
eit-er on -is own land or on t-at o2 ot-ers9let -im 1ay 2i2ty
dra,-mae* w-i,- s-all be sa,red to %ionys0s* i2 -e 1l0,6 t-em 2rom -is
own land) and i2 2rom -is nei.-bo0r=s land* a mina* and i2 2rom any
ot-ers=* two9t-irds o2 a mina/ And -e w-o wo0ld .at-er t-e A,-oi,eA
.ra1es or t-e A,-oi,eA 2i.s* as t-ey are now termed* i2 -e ta6e t-em
o22 -is own land* let -im 1l0,6 t-em -ow and w-en -e li6es) b0t i2
-e ta6e t-em 2rom t-e .ro0nd o2 ot-ers wit-o0t t-eir lea4e* let -im in
t-at ,ase be always 10nis-ed in a,,ordan,e wit- t-e law w-i,-
ordains t-at -e s-o0ld not mo4e w-at -e -as not laid down/ And i2 a
sla4e to0,-es any 2r0it o2 t-is sort* wit-o0t t-e ,onsent o2 t-e owner
o2 t-e land* -e s-all be beaten wit- as many blows as t-ere are .ra1es
on t-e b0n,-* or 2i.s on t-e 2i.9tree/ Let a meti, 10r,-ase t-e
A,-oi,eA a0t0mnal 2r0it* and t-en* i2 -e 1leases* -e may .at-er it)
b0t i2 a stran.er is 1assin. alon. t-e road* and desires to eat* let
-im ta6e o2 t-e A,-oi,eA .ra1es 2or -imsel2 and a sin.le 2ollower
wit-o0t 1ayment* as a trib0te o2 -os1itality/ #-e law -owe4er
2orbids stran.ers 2rom s-arin. in t-e sort w-i,- is not 0sed 2or
eatin.) and i2 any one* w-et-er -e be master or sla4e* ta6es o2 t-em
in i.noran,e* let t-e sla4e be beaten* and t-e 2reeman dismissed
wit- admonitions* and instr0,ted to ta6e o2 t-e ot-er a0t0mnal
2r0its w-i,- are 0n2it 2or ma6in. raisins and wine* or 2or layin. by
as dried 2i.s/ As to 1ears* and a11les* and 1ome.ranates* and
similar 2r0its* t-ere s-all be no dis.ra,e in ta6in. t-em se,retly)
b0t -e w-o is ,a0.-t* i2 -e be o2 less t-an t-irty years o2 a.e* s-all
be str0,6 and beaten o22* b0t not wo0nded) and no 2reeman s-all -a4e
any ri.-t o2 satis2a,tion 2or s0,- blows/ O2 t-ese 2r0its t-e stran.er
may 1arta6e* j0st as -e may o2 t-e 2r0its o2 a0t0mn/ And i2 an
elder* w-o is more t-an t-irty years o2 a.e* eat o2 t-em on t-e
s1ot* let -im* li6e t-e stran.er* be allowed to 1arta6e o2 all s0,-
2r0its* b0t -e m0st ,arry away not-in./ I2* -owe4er* -e will not
obey t-e law* let -im r0n ris6 o2 2ailin. in t-e ,om1etition o2
4irt0e* in ,ase any one ta6es noti,e o2 -is a,tions be2ore t-e
j0d.es at t-e time/
Water is t-e .reatest element o2 n0trition in .ardens* b0t is easily
1oll0ted/ 7o0 ,annot 1oison t-e soil* or t-e soil* or t-e s0n* or
t-e air* w-i,- are ot-er elements o2 n0trition in 1lants* or di4ert
t-em* or steal t-em) b0t all t-ese t-in.s may 4ery li6ely -a11en in
re.ard to water* w-i,- m0st t-ere2ore be 1rote,ted by law/ And let
t-is be t-e law(9I2 any one intentionally 1oll0tes t-e water o2
anot-er* w-et-er t-e water o2 a s1rin.* or ,olle,ted in reser4oirs*
eit-er by 1oisono0s s0bstan,es* or by di..in. or by t-e2t* let t-e
inj0red 1arty brin. t-e ,a0se be2ore t-e wardens o2 t-e ,ity* and
,laim in writin. t-e 4al0e o2 t-e loss) i2 t-e a,,0sed be 2o0nd .0ilty
o2 inj0rin. t-e water by deleterio0s s0bstan,es* let -im not only
1ay dama.es* b0t 10ri2y t-e stream or t-e ,istern w-i,- ,ontains t-e
water* in s0,- manner as t-e laws o2 t-e inter1reters order t-e
10ri2i,ation to be made by t-e o22ender in ea,- ,ase/
Wit- res1e,t to t-e .at-erin. in o2 t-e 2r0its o2 t-e soil* let a
man* i2 -e 1leases* ,arry -is own 2r0its t-ro0.- any 1la,e in w-i,- -e
eit-er does no -arm to any one* or -imsel2 .ains t-ree times as m0,-
as -is nei.-bo0r loses/ !ow o2 t-ese t-in.s t-e ma.istrates s-o0ld
be ,o.nisant* as o2 all ot-er t-in.s in w-i,- a man intentionally does
inj0ry to anot-er or to t-e 1ro1erty o2 anot-er* by 2ra0d or 2or,e* in
t-e 0se w-i,- -e ma6es o2 -is own 1ro1erty/ All t-ese matters a man
s-o0ld lay be2ore t-e ma.istrates* and re,ei4e dama.es* s011osin.
t-e inj0ry to be not more t-an t-ree minae) or i2 -e -a4e a ,-ar.e
a.ainst anot-er w-i,- in4ol4es a lar.er amo0nt* let -im brin. -is s0it
into t-e 10bli, ,o0rts and -a4e t-e e4il9doer 10nis-ed/ B0t i2 any
o2 t-e ma.istrates a11ear to adj0d.e t-e 1enalties w-i,- -e im1oses in
an 0nj0st s1irit* let -im be liable to 1ay do0ble to t-e inj0red
1arty/ Any one may brin. t-e o22en,es o2 ma.istrates* in any
1arti,0lar ,ase* be2ore t-e 10bli, ,o0rts/ #-ere are inn0merable
little matters relatin. to t-e modes o2 10nis-ment* and a11li,ations
2or s0its* and s0mmonses and t-e witnesses to s0mmonses92or e:am1le*
w-et-er two witnesses s-o0ld be re;0ired 2or a s0mmons* or -ow
many9and all s0,- details* w-i,- ,annot be omitted in le.islation* b0t
are beneat- t-e wisdom o2 an a.ed le.islator/ #-ese lesser matters* as
t-ey indeed are in ,om1arison wit- t-e .reater ones* let a yo0n.er
.eneration re.0late by law* a2ter t-e 1atterns w-i,- -a4e 1re,eded*
and a,,ordin. to t-eir own e:1erien,e o2 t-e 0se20lness and
ne,essity o2 s0,- laws) and w-en t-ey are d0ly re.0lated let t-ere
be no alteration* b0t let t-e ,iti<ens li4e in t-e obser4an,e o2 t-em/
!ow o2 artisans* let t-e re.0lations be as 2ollows(9In t-e 2irst
1la,e* let no ,iti<en or ser4ant o2 a ,iti<en be o,,01ied in
-andi,ra2t arts) 2or -e w-o is to se,0re and 1reser4e t-e 10bli, order
o2 t-e state* -as an art w-i,- re;0ires m0,- st0dy and many 6inds o2
6nowled.e* and does not admit o2 bein. made a se,ondary o,,01ation)
and -ardly any -0man bein. is ,a1able o2 10rs0in. two 1ro2essions or
two arts ri.-tly* or o2 1ra,tisin. one art -imsel2* and s01erintendin.
some one else w-o is 1ra,tisin. anot-er/ Let t-is* t-en* be o0r
2irst 1rin,i1le in t-e state(9!o one w-o is a smit- s-all also be a
,ar1enter* and i2 -e be a ,ar1enter* -e s-all not s01erintend t-e
smit-=s art rat-er t-an -is own* 0nder t-e 1rete:t t-at in
s01erintendin. many ser4ants w-o are wor6in. 2or -im* -e is li6ely
to s01erintend t-em better* be,a0se more re4en0e will a,,r0e to -im
2rom t-em t-an 2rom -is own art) b0t let e4ery man in t-e state -a4e
one art* and .et -is li4in. by t-at/ Let t-e wardens o2 t-e ,ity
labo0r to maintain t-is law* and i2 any ,iti<en in,line to any ot-er
art t-an t-e st0dy o2 4irt0e* let t-em 10nis- -im wit- dis.ra,e and
in2amy* 0ntil t-ey brin. -im ba,6 into -is own ri.-t ,o0rse) and i2
any stran.er 1ro2ess two arts* let t-em ,-astise -im wit- bonds and
money 1enalties* and e:10lsion 2rom t-e state* 0ntil t-ey ,om1el -im
to be one only and not many/
B0t as to0,-in. 1ayments 2or -ire* and ,ontra,ts o2 wor6* or in ,ase
any one does wron. to any o2 t-e ,iti<ens or t-ey do wron. to any
ot-er* 01 to 2i2ty dra,-mae* let t-e wardens o2 t-e ,ity de,ide t-e
,ase) b0t i2 .reater amo0nt be in4ol4ed* t-en let t-e 10bli, ,o0rts
de,ide a,,ordin. to law/ Let no one 1ay any d0ty eit-er on t-e
im1ortation or e:1ortation o2 .oods) and as to 2ran6in,ense and
similar 1er20mes* 0sed in t-e ser4i,e o2 t-e &ods* w-i,- ,ome 2rom
abroad* and 10r1le and ot-er dyes w-i,- are not 1rod0,ed in t-e
,o0ntry* or t-e materials o2 any art w-i,- -a4e to be im1orted* and
w-i,- are not ne,essary9no one s-o0ld im1ort t-em) nor a.ain* s-o0ld
any one e:1ort anyt-in. w-i,- is wanted in t-e ,o0ntry/ O2 all t-ese
t-in.s let t-ere be ins1e,tors and s01erintendents* ta6en 2rom t-e
.0ardians o2 t-e law) and t-ey s-all be t-e twel4e ne:t in order to
t-e 2i4e seniors/ Con,ernin. arms* and all im1lements w-i,- are 2or
military 10r1oses* i2 t-ere be need o2 introd0,in. any art* or
1lant* or metal* or ,-ains o2 any 6ind* or animals 2or 0se in war* let
t-e ,ommanders o2 t-e -orse and t-e .enerals -a4e a0t-ority o4er t-eir
im1ortation and e:1ortation) t-e ,ity s-all send t-em o0t and also
re,ei4e t-em* and t-e .0ardians o2 t-e law s-all ma6e 2it and 1ro1er
laws abo0t t-em/ B0t let t-ere be no retail trade 2or t-e sa6e o2
money9ma6in.* eit-er in t-ese or any ot-er arti,les* in t-e ,ity or
,o0ntry at all/
Wit- res1e,t to 2ood and t-e distrib0tion o2 t-e 1rod0,e o2 t-e
,o0ntry* t-e ri.-t and 1ro1er way seems to be nearly t-at w-i,- is t-e
,0stom o2 Crete) 2or all s-o0ld be re;0ired to distrib0te t-e 2r0its
o2 t-e soil into twel4e 1arts* and in t-is way ,ons0me t-em/ Let t-e
twel2t- 1ortion o2 ea,- >as 2or instan,e o2 w-eat and barley* to w-i,-
t-e rest o2 t-e 2r0its o2 t-e eart- s-all be added* as well as t-e
animals w-i,- are 2or sale in ea,- o2 t-e twel4e di4isions? be di4ided
in d0e 1ro1ortion into t-ree 1arts) one 1art 2or 2reemen* anot-er
2or t-eir ser4ants* and a t-ird 2or ,ra2tsmen and in .eneral 2or
stran.ers* w-et-er sojo0rners w-o may be dwellin. in t-e ,ity* and
li6e ot-er men m0st li4e* or t-ose w-o ,ome on some b0siness w-i,-
t-ey -a4e wit- t-e state* or wit- some indi4id0al/ Let only t-is t-ird
1art o2 all ne,essaries be re;0ired to be sold) o0t o2 t-e ot-er
two9t-irds no one s-all be ,om1elled to sell/ And -ow will t-ey be
best distrib0ted3 In t-e 2irst 1la,e* we see ,learly t-at t-e
distrib0tion will be o2 e;0als in one 1oint o2 4iew* and in anot-er
1oint o2 4iew o2 0ne;0als/
Cle/ W-at do yo0 mean3
At-/ I mean t-at t-e eart- o2 ne,essity 1rod0,es and no0ris-es t-e
4ario0s arti,les o2 2ood* sometimes better and sometimes worse/
Cle/ O2 ,o0rse/
At-/ S0,- bein. t-e ,ase* let no one o2 t-e t-ree 1ortions be
.reater t-an eit-er o2 t-e ot-er two9neit-er t-at w-i,- is assi.ned to
masters or to sla4es* nor a.ain t-at o2 t-e stran.er) b0t let t-e
distrib0tion to all be e;0al and ali6e* and let e4ery ,iti<en ta6e -is
two 1ortions and distrib0te t-em amon. sla4es and 2reemen* -e -a4in.
1ower to determine t-e ;0antity and ;0ality/ And w-at remains -e s-all
distrib0te by meas0re and n0mb amon. t-e animals w-o -a4e to be
s0stained 2rom t-e eart-* ta6in. t-e w-ole n0mber o2 t-em/
In t-e se,ond 1la,e* o0r ,iti<ens s-o0ld -a4e se1arate -o0ses d0ly
ordered* and t-is will be t-e order 1ro1er 2or men li6e t-em/ #-ere
s-all be twel4e -amlets* one in t-e middle o2 ea,- twel2t- 1ortion*
and in ea,- -amlet t-ey s-all 2irst set a1art a mar6et91la,e* and
t-e tem1les o2 t-e &ods* and o2 t-eir attendant demi.ods) and i2 t-ere
be any lo,al deities o2 t-e +a.netes* or -oly seats o2 ot-er an,ient
deities* w-ose memory -as been 1reser4ed* to t-ese let t-em 1ay
t-eir an,ient -ono0rs/ B0t $estia* and 5e0s* and At-ene will -a4e
tem1les e4eryw-ere to.et-er wit- t-e &od w-o 1resides in ea,- o2 t-e
twel4e distri,ts/ And t-e 2irst ere,tion o2 -o0ses s-all be aro0nd
t-ese tem1les* w-ere t-e .ro0nd is -i.-est* in order to 1ro4ide t-e
sa2est and most de2ensible 1la,e o2 retreat 2or t-e .0ards/ All t-e
rest o2 t-e ,o0ntry t-ey s-all settle in t-e 2ollowin. manner(9#-ey
s-all ma6e t-irteen di4isions o2 t-e ,ra2tsmen) one o2 t-em t-ey s-all
establis- in t-e ,ity* and t-is* a.ain* t-ey s-all s0bdi4ide into
twel4e lesser di4isions* amon. t-e twel4e distri,ts o2 t-e ,ity* and
t-e remainder s-all be distrib0ted in t-e ,o0ntry ro0nd abo0t) and
in ea,- 4illa.e t-ey s-all settle 4ario0s ,lasses o2 ,ra2tsmen* wit- a
4iew to t-e ,on4enien,e o2 t-e -0sbandmen/ And t-e ,-ie2 o22i,ers o2
t-e wardens o2 t-e ,o0ntry s-all s01erintend all t-ese matters* and
see -ow many o2 t-em* and w-i,- ,lass o2 t-em* ea,- 1la,e re;0ires)
and 2i: t-em w-ere t-ey are li6ely to be least tro0blesome* and most
0se20l to t-e -0sbandman/ And t-e wardens o2 t-e ,ity s-all see to
similar matters in t-e ,ity/
!ow t-e wardens o2 t-e a.ora o0.-t to see to t-e details o2 t-e
a.ora/ #-eir 2irst ,are* a2ter t-e tem1les w-i,- are in t-e a.ora -a4e
been seen to* s-o0ld be to 1re4ent any one 2rom doin. any in
dealin.s between man and man) in t-e se,ond) 1la,e* as bein.
ins1e,tors o2 tem1eran,e and 4iolen,e* t-ey s-o0ld ,-astise -im w-o
re;0ires ,-astisement/ #o0,-in. arti,les o2 .ale* t-ey s-o0ld 2irst
see w-et-er t-e arti,les w-i,- t-e ,iti<ens are 0nder re.0lations to
sell to stran.ers are sold to t-em* as t-e law ordains/ And let t-e
law be as 2ollows(9on t-e 2irst day o2 t-e mont-* t-e 1ersons in
,-ar.e* w-oe4er t-ey are* w-et-er stran.ers or sla4es* w-o -a4e t-e
,-ar.e on be-al2 o2 t-e ,iti<ens* s-all 1rod0,e to t-e stran.ers t-e
1ortion w-i,- 2alls to t-em* in t-e 2irst 1la,e* a twel2t- 1ortion
o2 t-e ,orn)9t-e stran.er s-all 10r,-ase ,orn 2or t-e w-ole mont-* and
ot-er ,ereals* on t-e 2irst mar6et day) and on t-e tent- day o2 t-e
mont- t-e one 1arty s-all sell* and t-e ot-er b0y* li;0ids
s022i,ient to last d0rin. t-e w-ole mont-) and on t-e twenty9t-ird day
t-ere s-all be a sale o2 animals by t-ose w-o are willin. to sell to
t-e 1eo1le w-o want to b0y* and o2 im1lements and ot-er t-in.s w-i,-
-0sbandmen sell >s0,- as s6ins and all 6inds o2 ,lot-in.* eit-er wo4en
or made o2 2elt and ot-er .oods o2 t-e same sort?* and w-i,- stran.ers
are ,om1elled to b0y and 10r,-ase o2 ot-ers/ As to t-e retail trade in
t-ese t-in.s* w-et-er o2 barley or w-eat set a1art 2or meal and 2lo0r*
or any ot-er 6ind o2 2ood* no one s-all sell t-em to ,iti<ens or t-eir
sla4es* nor s-all any one b0y o2 a ,iti<en) b0t let t-e stran.er
sell t-em in t-e mar6et o2 stran.ers* to artisans and t-eir sla4es*
ma6in. an e:,-an.e o2 wine and 2ood* w-i,- is ,ommonly ,alled retail
trade/ And b0t,-ers s-all o22er 2or sale 1arts o2 dismembered
animals to t-e stran.ers* and artisans* and t-eir ser4ants/ Let any
stran.er w-o li6es b0y 20el 2rom day to day w-olesale* 2rom t-ose
w-o -a4e t-e ,are o2 it in t-e ,o0ntry* and let -im sell to t-e
stran.ers as m0,- -e 1leases and w-en -e 1leases/ As to ot-er .oods
and im1lements w-i,- are li6ely to be wanted* t-ey s-all sell t-em
in ,ommon mar6et* at any 1la,e w-i,- t-e .0ardians o2 t-e law and
t-e wardens o2 t-e mar6et and ,ity* ,-oosin. a,,ordin. to t-eir
j0d.ment* s-all determine) at s0,- 1la,es t-ey s-all e:,-an.e money
2or .oods* and .oods 2or money* neit-er 1arty .i4in. ,redit to t-e
ot-er) and -e w-o .i4es ,redit m0st be satis2ied* w-et-er -e obtain
-is money not* 2or in s0,- e:,-an.es -e will not be 1rote,ted by
law/ B0t w-ene4er 1ro1erty -as been bo0.-t or sold* .reater in
;0antity or 4al0e t-an is allowed by t-e law* w-i,- -as determined
wit-in w-at limited a man may in,rease and diminis- -is 1ossessions*
let t-e e:,ess be re.istered in t-e boo6s o2 t-e .0ardians o2 t-e law)
in ,ase o2 dimin0tion* let t-ere be an eras0re made/ And let t-e
same r0le be obser4ed abo0t t-e re.istration o2 t-e 1ro1erty o2 t-e
meti,s/ Any one w-o li6es may ,ome and be a meti, on ,ertain
,onditions) a 2orei.ner* i2 -e li6es* and is able to settle* may dwell
in t-e land* b0t -e m0st 1ra,tise an art* and not abide more t-an
twenty years 2rom t-e time at w-i,- -e -as re.istered -imsel2) and
-e s-all 1ay no sojo0rner=s ta:* -owe4er small* e:,e1t .ood ,ond0,t*
nor any ot-er ta: 2or b0yin. and sellin./ B0t w-en t-e twenty years
-a4e e:1ired* -e s-all ta6e -is 1ro1erty wit- -im and de1art/ And i2
in t-e ,o0rse o2 t-ese years -e s-o0ld ,-an,e to distin.0is- -imsel2
by any ,onsiderable bene2it w-i,- -e ,on2ers on t-e state* and -e
t-in6s t-at -e ,an 1ers0ade t-e ,o0n,il and assembly* eit-er to
.rant -im delay in lea4in. t-e ,o0ntry* or to allow -im to remain
2or t-e w-ole o2 -is li2e* let -im .o and 1ers0ade t-e ,ity* and
w-ate4er t-ey assent to at -is instan,e s-all ta6e e22e,t/ "or t-e
,-ildren o2 t-e meti,s* bein. artisans* and o2 2i2teen years o2 a.e*
let t-e time o2 t-eir sojo0rn ,ommen,e a2ter t-eir 2i2teent- year) and
let t-em remain 2or twenty years* and t-en .o w-ere t-ey li6e) b0t any
o2 t-em w-o wis-es to remain* may do so* i2 -e ,an 1ers0ade t-e
,o0n,il and assembly/ And i2 -e de1art* let -im erase all t-e
entries w-i,- -a4e been made by -im in t-e re.ister 6e1t by t-e
ma.istrates/
BOOK IE
!e:t to all t-e matters w-i,- -a4e 1re,eded in t-e nat0ral order
o2 le.islation will ,ome s0its o2 law/ O2 s0its t-ose w-i,- relate
to a.ri,0lt0re -a4e been already des,ribed* b0t t-e more im1ortant
-a4e not been des,ribed/ $a4in. mentioned t-em se4erally 0nder t-eir
0s0al names* we will 1ro,eed to say w-at 10nis-ments are to be
in2li,ted 2or ea,- o22en,e* and w-o are to be t-e j0d.es o2 t-em/
Cleinias/ 8ery .ood/
At-enian Stran.er/ #-ere is a sense o2 dis.ra,e in le.islatin.* as
we are abo0t to do* 2or all t-e details o2 ,rime in a state w-i,-*
as we say* is to be well re.0lated and will be 1er2e,tly ada1ted to
t-e 1ra,ti,e o2 4irt0e/ #o ass0me t-at in s0,- a state t-ere will
arise some one w-o will be .0ilty o2 ,rimes as -eino0s as any w-i,-
are e4er 1er1etrated in ot-er states* and t-at we m0st le.islate 2or
-im by anti,i1ation* and t-reaten and ma6e laws a.ainst -im i2 -e
s-o0ld arise* in order to deter -im* and 10nis- -is a,ts* 0nder t-e
idea t-at -e will arise9t-is* as I was sayin.* is in a manner
dis.ra,e20l/ 7et seein. t-at we are not li6e t-e an,ient
le.islators* w-o .a4e laws to -eroes and sons o2 .ods* bein.*
a,,ordin. to t-e 1o10lar belie2* t-emsel4es t-e o22s1rin. o2 t-e .ods*
and le.islatin. 2or ot-ers* w-o were also t-e ,-ildren o2 di4ine
1arents* b0t t-at we are only men w-o are le.islatin. 2or t-e sons
o2 men* t-ere is no 0n,-aritableness in a11re-endin. t-at some one
o2 o0r ,iti<ens may be li6e a seed w-i,- -as to0,-ed t-e o:=s -orn*
-a4in. a -eart so -ard t-at it ,annot be so2tened any more t-an
t-ose seeds ,an be so2tened by 2ire/ Amon. o0r ,iti<ens t-ere may be
t-ose w-o ,annot be s0bd0ed by all t-e stren.t- o2 t-e laws) and 2or
t-eir sa6e* t-o0.- an 0n.ra,io0s tas6* I will 1ro,laim my 2irst law
abo0t t-e robbin. o2 tem1les* in ,ase any one s-o0ld dare to ,ommit
s0,- a ,rime/ I do not e:1e,t or ima.ine t-at any well9bro0.-t901
,iti<en will e4er ta6e t-e in2e,tion* b0t t-eir ser4ants* and
stran.ers* and stran.ers= ser4ants may be .0ilty o2 many im1ieties/
And wit- a 4iew to t-em es1e,ially* and yet not wit-o0t a 1ro4ident
eye to t-e wea6ness o2 -0man nat0re .enerally* I will 1ro,laim t-e law
abo0t robbers o2 tem1les and similar in,0rable* or almost in,0rable*
,riminals/ $a4in. already a.reed t-at s0,- ena,tments o0.-t always
to -a4e a s-ort 1rel0de* we may s1ea6 to t-e ,riminal* w-om some
tormentin. desire by ni.-t and by day tem1ts to .o and rob a tem1le*
t-e 2ewest 1ossible words o2 admonition and e:-ortation(9O sir* we
will say to -im* t-e im10lse w-i,- mo4es yo0 to rob tem1les is not
an ordinary -0man malady* nor yet a 4isitation o2 -ea4en* b0t a
madness w-i,- is be.otten in a man 2rom an,ient and 0ne:1iated
,rimes o2 -is ra,e* an e4er9re,0rrin. ,0rse)9a.ainst t-is yo0 m0st
.0ard wit- all yo0r mi.-t* and -ow yo0 are to .0ard we will e:1lain to
yo0/ W-en any s0,- t-o0.-t ,omes into yo0r mind* .o and 1er2orm
e:1iations* .o as a s011liant to t-e tem1les o2 t-e &ods w-o a4ert
e4ils* .o to t-e so,iety o2 t-ose w-o are ,alled .ood men amon. yo0)
-ear t-em tell and yo0rsel2 try to re1eat a2ter t-em* t-at e4ery man
s-o0ld -ono0r t-e noble and t-e j0st/ "ly 2rom t-e ,om1any o2 t-e
wi,6ed92ly and t0rn not ba,6) and i2 yo0r disorder is li.-tened by
t-ese remedies* well and .ood* b0t i2 not* t-en a,6nowled.e deat- to
be nobler t-an li2e* and de1art -en,e/
S0,- are t-e 1rel0des w-i,- we sin. to all w-o -a4e t-o0.-ts o2
0n-oly and treasonable a,tions* and to -im w-o -ear6ens to t-em t-e
law -as not-in. to say/ B0t to -im w-o is disobedient w-en t-e 1rel0de
is o4er* ,ry wit- a lo0d 4oi,e*9$e w-o is ta6en in t-e a,t o2
robbin. tem1les* i2 -e be a sla4e or stran.er* s-all -a4e -is e4il
deed en.ra4en on -is 2a,e and -ands* and s-all be beaten wit- as
many stri1es as may seem .ood to t-e j0d.es* and be ,ast na6ed
beyond t-e borders o2 t-e land/ And i2 -e s022ers t-is 10nis-ment -e
will 1robably ret0rn to -is ri.-t mind and be im1ro4ed) 2or no 1enalty
w-i,- t-e law in2li,ts is desi.ned 2or e4il* b0t always ma6es -im
w-o s022ers eit-er better or not so m0,- worse as -e wo0ld -a4e
been/ B0t i2 any ,iti<en be 2o0nd .0ilty o2 any .reat or 0nmentionable
wron.* eit-er in relation to t-e .ods* or -is 1arents* or t-e state*
let t-e j0d.e deem -im to be in,0rable* rememberin. t-at a2ter
re,ei4in. s0,- an e:,ellent ed0,ation and trainin. 2rom yo0t-
01ward* -e -as not abstained 2rom t-e .reatest o2 ,rimes/ $is
10nis-ment s-all be deat-* w-i,- to -im will be t-e least o2 e4ils)
and -is e:am1le will bene2it ot-ers* i2 -e 1eris- in.lorio0sly* and be
,ast beyond t-e borders o2 t-e land/ B0t let -is ,-ildren and
2amily* i2 t-ey a4oid t-e ways o2 t-eir 2at-er* -a4e .lory* and let
-ono0rable mention be made o2 t-em* as -a4in. nobly and man20lly
es,a1ed o0t o2 e4il into .ood/ !one o2 t-em s-o0ld -a4e t-eir .oods
,on2is,ated to t-e state* 2or t-e lots o2 t-e ,iti<ens o0.-t always to
,ontin0e t-e same and e;0al/
#o0,-in. t-e e:a,tion o2 1enalties* w-en a man a11ears to -a4e
done anyt-in. w-i,- deser4es a 2ine* -e s-all 1ay t-e 2ine* i2 -e -a4e
anyt-in. in e:,ess o2 t-e lot w-i,- is assi.ned to -im) b0t more
t-an t-at -e s-all not 1ay/ And to se,0re e:a,tness* let t-e .0ardians
o2 t-e law re2er to t-e re.isters* and in2orm t-e j0d.es o2 t-e
1re,ise tr0t-* in order t-at none o2 t-e lots may .o 0n,0lti4ated
2or want o2 money/ B0t i2 any one seems to deser4e a .reater
1enalty* let -im 0nder.o a lon. and 10bli, im1risonment and be
dis-ono0red* 0nless some o2 -is 2riends are willin. to be s0rety 2or
-im* and liberate -im by assistin. -im to 1ay t-e 2ine/ !o ,riminal
s-all .o 0n10nis-ed* not e4en 2or a sin.le o22en,e* nor i2 -e -a4e
2led t-e ,o0ntry) b0t let t-e 1enalty be a,,ordin. to -is
deserts9deat-* or bonds* or blows* or de.radin. 1la,es o2 sittin. or
standin.* or remo4al to some tem1le on t-e borders o2 t-e land) or let
-im 1ay 2ines* as we said be2ore/ In ,ases o2 deat-* let t-e j0d.es be
t-e .0ardians o2 t-e law* and a ,o0rt sele,ted by merit 2rom t-e
last year=s ma.istrates/ B0t -ow t-e ,a0ses are to be bro0.-t into
to ,o0rt* -ow t-e s0mmonses are to be ser4ed* t-e li6e* t-ese t-in.s
may be le2t to t-e yo0n.er .eneration o2 le.islators to determine) t-e
manner o2 4otin. we m0st determine o0rsel4es/
Let t-e 4ote be .i4en o1enly) b0t be2ore t-ey ,ome to t-e 4ote let
t-e j0d.es sit in order o2 seniority o4er a.ainst 1lainti22 and
de2endant* and let all t-e ,iti<ens w-o ,an s1are time -ear and ta6e a
serio0s interest in listenin. to s0,- ,a0ses/ "irst o2 all t-e
1lainti22 s-all ma6e one s1ee,-* and t-en t-e de2endant s-all ma6e
anot-er) and a2ter t-e s1ee,-es -a4e been made t-e eldest j0d.e
s-all be.in to e:amine t-e 1arties* and 1ro,eed to ma6e an ade;0ate
en;0iry into w-at -as been said) and a2ter t-e oldest -as s1o6en*
t-e rest s-all 1ro,eed in order to e:amine eit-er 1arty as to w-at
-e 2inds de2e,ti4e in t-e e4iden,e* w-et-er o2 statement or
omission) and -e w-o -as not-in. to as6 s-all -and o4er t-e
e:amination to anot-er/ And on so m0,- o2 w-at -as been said as is
to t-e 10r1ose all t-e j0d.es s-all set t-eir seals* and 1la,e t-e
writin.s on t-e altar o2 $estia/ On t-e ne:t day t-ey s-all meet
a.ain* and in li6e manner 10t t-eir ;0estions and .o t-ro0.- t-e
,a0se* and a.ain set t-eir seals 01on t-e e4iden,e) and w-en t-ey -a4e
t-ree times done t-is* and -a4e -ad witnesses and e4iden,e eno0.-*
t-ey s-all ea,- o2 t-em .i4e a -oly 4ote* a2ter 1romisin. by $estia
t-at t-ey will de,ide j0stly and tr0ly to t-e 0tmost o2 t-eir 1ower)
and so t-ey s-all 10t an end to t-e s0it/
!e:t* a2ter w-at relates to t-e &ods* 2ollows w-at relates to t-e
dissol0tion o2 t-e state(9W-oe4er by 1romotin. a man to 1ower ensla4es
t-e laws* and s0bje,ts t-e ,ity to 2a,tions* 0sin. 4iolen,e and
stirrin. 01 sedition ,ontrary to law* -im we will deem t-e .reatest
enemy o2 t-e w-ole state/ B0t -e w-o ta6es no 1art in s0,-
1ro,eedin.s* and* bein. one o2 t-e ,-ie2 ma.istrates o2 t-e state* -as
no 6nowled.e o2 t-e treason* or* -a4in. 6nowled.e o2 it* by reason
o2 ,owardi,e does not inter2ere on be-al2 o2 -is ,o0ntry* s0,- an
one we m0st ,onsider nearly as bad/ E4ery man w-o is wort- anyt-in.
will in2orm t-e ma.istrates* and brin. t-e ,ons1irator to trial 2or
ma6in. a 4iolent and ille.al attem1t to ,-an.e t-e .o4ernment/ #-e
j0d.es o2 s0,- ,ases s-all be t-e same as o2 t-e robbers o2 tem1les)
and let t-e w-ole 1ro,eedin. be ,arried on in t-e same way* and t-e
4ote o2 t-e majority ,ondemn to deat-/ B0t let t-ere be a .eneral
r0le* t-at t-e dis.ra,e and 10nis-ment o2 t-e 2at-er is not to be
4isited on t-e ,-ildren* e:,e1t in t-e ,ase o2 some one w-ose
2at-er* .rand2at-er* and .reat9.rand2at-er -a4e s0,,essi4ely 0nder.one
t-e 1enalty o2 deat-/ S0,- 1ersons t-e ,ity s-all send away wit- all
t-eir 1ossessions to t-e ,ity and ,o0ntry o2 t-eir an,estors*
retainin. only and w-olly t-eir a11ointed lot/ And o0t o2 t-e ,iti<ens
w-o -a4e more t-an one son o2 not less t-an ten years o2 a.e* t-ey
s-all sele,t ten w-om t-eir 2at-er or .rand2at-er by t-e mot-er=s or
2at-er=s side s-all a11oint* and let t-em send to %el1-i t-e names
o2 t-ose w-o are sele,ted* and -im w-om t-e &od ,-ooses t-ey s-all
establis- as -eir o2 t-e -o0se w-i,- -as 2ailed) and may -e -a4e
better 2ort0ne t-an -is 1rede,essorsD
Cle/ 8ery .ood/
At-/ On,e more let t-ere be a t-ird .eneral law res1e,tin. t-e
j0d.es w-o are to .i4e j0d.ment* and t-e manner o2 ,ond0,tin. s0its
a.ainst t-ose w-o are tried on an a,,0sation o2 treason) and as
,on,ernin. t-e remainin. or de1art0re o2 t-eir des,endants9t-ere s-all
be one law 2or all t-ree* 2or t-e traitor* and t-e robber o2
tem1les* and t-e s0b4erter by 4iolen,e o2 t-e laws o2 t-e state/ "or a
t-ie2* w-et-er -e steal m0,- or little* let t-ere be one law* and
one 10nis-ment 2or all ali6e( in t-e 2irst 1la,e* let -im 1ay do0ble
t-e amo0nt o2 t-e t-e2t i2 -e be ,on4i,ted* and i2 -e -a4e so m0,-
o4er and abo4e t-e allotment)9i2 -e -a4e not* -e s-all be bo0nd
0ntil -e 1ay t-e 1enalty* or 1ers0ade -im -as obtained t-e senten,e
a.ainst -im to 2or.i4e -im/ B0t i2 a 1erson be ,on4i,ted o2 a t-e2t
a.ainst t-e state* t-en i2 -e ,an 1ers0ade t-e ,ity* or i2 -e will 1ay
ba,6 twi,e t-e amo0nt o2 t-e t-e2t* -e s-all be set 2ree 2rom -is
bonds/
Cle/ W-at ma6es yo0 say* Stran.er* t-at a t-e2t is all one*
w-et-er t-e t-ie2 may -a4e ta6en m0,- or little* and eit-er 2rom
sa,red or se,0lar 1la,es9and t-ese are not t-e only di22eren,es in
t-e2ts(9seein.* t-en* t-at t-ey are o2 many 6inds* o0.-t not t-e
le.islator to ada1t -imsel2 to t-em* and im1ose 01on t-em entirely
di22erent 1enalties3
At-/ E:,ellent/ I was r0nnin. on too 2ast* Cleinias* and yo0
im1in.ed 01on me* and bro0.-t me to my senses* remindin. me o2 w-at*
indeed* -ad o,,0rred to mind already* t-at le.islation was ne4er yet
ri.-tly wor6ed o0t* as I may say in 1assin./9%o yo0 remember t-e ima.e
in w-i,- I li6ened t-e men 2or w-om laws are now made to sla4es w-o
are do,tored by sla4es3 "or o2 t-is yo0 may be 4ery s0re* t-at i2
one o2 t-ose em1iri,al 1-ysi,ians* w-o 1ra,tise medi,ine wit-o0t
s,ien,e* were to ,ome 01on t-e .entleman 1-ysi,ian tal6in. to -is
.entleman 1atient* and 0sin. t-e lan.0a.e almost o2 1-iloso1-y*
be.innin. at t-e be.innin. o2 t-e disease and dis,o0rsin. abo0t t-e
w-ole nat0re o2 t-e body* -e wo0ld b0rst into a -earty la0.-9-e
wo0ld say w-at most o2 t-ose w-o are ,alled do,tors always -a4e at
t-eir ton.0e=s end(9"oolis- 2ellow* -e wo0ld say* yo0 are not
-ealin. t-e si,6 man* b0t yo0 are ed0,atin. -im) and -e does not
want to be made a do,tor* b0t to .et well/
Cle/ And wo0ld -e not be ri.-t3
At-/ Per-a1s -e wo0ld) and -e mi.-t remar6 01on 0s t-at -e w-o
dis,o0rses abo0t laws* as we are now doin.* is .i4in. t-e ,iti<ens
ed0,ation and not laws) t-at wo0ld be rat-er a tellin. obser4ation/
Cle/ 8ery tr0e/
At-/ B0t we are 2ort0nate/
Cle/ In w-at way3
At-/ Inasm0,- as we are not ,om1elled to .i4e laws* b0t we may
ta6e into ,onsideration e4ery 2orm o2 .o4ernment* and as,ertain w-at
is best and w-at is most need20l* and -ow t-ey may bot- be ,arried
into e:e,0tion) and we may also* i2 we 1lease* at t-is 4ery moment
,-oose w-at is best* or* i2 we 1re2er* w-at is most ne,essary9w-i,-
s-all we do3
Cle/ #-ere is somet-in. ridi,0lo0s* Stran.er* in o0r 1ro1osin. s0,-
an alternati4e as i2 we were le.islators* sim1ly bo0nd 0nder some
.reat ne,essity w-i,- ,annot be de2erred to t-e morrow/ B0t we* as I
may by .ra,e o2 $ea4en a22irm* li6e* .at-erers o2 stones or
be.inners o2 some ,om1osite wor6* may .at-er a -ea1 o2 materials*
and o0t o2 t-is* at o0r leis0re* sele,t w-at is s0itable 2or o0r
1roje,ted ,onstr0,tion/ Let 0s t-en s011ose o0rsel4es to be at
leis0re* not o2 ne,essity b0ildin.* b0t rat-er li6e men w-o are 1artly
1ro4idin. materials* and 1artly 10ttin. t-em to.et-er/ And we may
tr0ly say t-at some o2 o0r laws* li6e stones* are already 2i:ed in
t-eir 1la,es* and ot-ers lie at -and/
At-/ Certainly* in t-at ,ase* Cleinias* o0r 4iew o2 law will be more
in a,,ordan,e wit- nat0re/ "or t-ere is anot-er matter a22e,tin.
le.islators* w-i,- I m0st earnestly entreat yo0 to ,onsider/
Cle/ W-at is it3
At-/ #-ere are many writin.s to be 2o0nd in ,ities* and amon. t-em
t-ere* are ,om1osed by le.islators as well as by ot-er 1ersons/
Cle/ #o be s0re/
At-/ S-all we .i4e -eed rat-er to t-e writin.s o2 t-ose ot-ers91oets
and t-e li6e* w-o eit-er in metre or o0t o2 metre -a4e re,orded
t-eir ad4i,e abo0t t-e ,ond0,t o2 li2e* and not to t-e writin.s o2
le.islators3 or s-all we .i4e -eed to t-em abo4e all3
Cle/ 7es) to t-em 2ar abo4e all ot-ers/
At-/ And o0.-t t-e le.islator alone amon. writers to wit--old -is
o1inion abo0t t-e bea0ti20l* t-e .ood* and t-e j0st* and not to
tea,- w-at t-ey are* and -ow t-ey are to be 10rs0ed by t-ose w-o
intend to be -a11y3
Cle/ Certainly not/
At-/ And is it dis.ra,e20l 2or $omer and #yrtae0s and ot-er 1oets to
lay down e4il 1re,e1ts in t-eir writin.s res1e,tin. li2e and t-e
10rs0its o2 men* b0t not so dis.ra,e20l 2or Ly,0r.0s and Solon and
ot-ers w-o were le.islators as well as writers3 Is it not tr0e t-at o2
all t-e writin.s to be 2o0nd in ,ities* t-ose w-i,- relate to laws*
w-en yo0 0n2old and read t-em* o0.-t to be by 2ar t-e noblest and
t-e best3 and s-o0ld not ot-er writin.s eit-er a.ree wit- t-em* or
i2 t-ey disa.ree* be deemed ridi,0lo0s3 We s-o0ld ,onsider w-et-er t-e
laws o2 states o0.-t not to -a4e t-e ,-ara,ter o2 lo4in. and wise
1arents* rat-er t-an o2 tyrants and masters* w-o ,ommand and t-reaten*
and* a2ter writin. t-eir de,rees on walls* .o t-eir ways) and w-et-er*
in dis,o0rsin. o2 laws* we s-o0ld not ta6e t-e .entler 4iew o2 t-em
w-i,- may or may not be attainable9at any rate* we will s-ow o0r
readiness to entertain s0,- a 4iew* and be 1re1ared to 0nder.o
w-ate4er may be t-e res0lt/ And may t-e res0lt be .ood* and i2 &od
be .ra,io0s* it will be .oodD
Cle/ E:,ellent) let 0s do as yo0 say/
At-/ #-en we will now ,onsider a,,0rately* as we 1ro1osed* w-at
relates to robbers o2 tem1les* and all 6inds o2 t-e2ts* and o22en,es
in .eneral) and we m0st not be annoyed i2* in t-e ,o0rse o2
le.islation* we -a4e ena,ted some t-in.s* and -a4e not made 01 o0r
minds abo0t some ot-ers) 2or as yet we are not le.islators* b0t we may
soon be/ Let 0s* i2 yo0 1lease* ,onsider t-ese matters/
Cle/ By all means/
At-/ Con,ernin. all t-in.s -ono0rable and j0st* let 0s t-en
endea4o0r to as,ertain -ow 2ar we are ,onsistent wit- o0rsel4es* and
-ow 2ar we are in,onsistent* and -ow 2ar t-e many* 2rom w-om at any
rate we s-o0ld 1ro2ess a desire to di22er* a.ree and disa.ree amon.
t-emsel4es/
Cle/ W-at are t-e in,onsisten,ies w-i,- yo0 obser4e in 0s3
At-/ I will endea4o0r to e:1lain/ I2 I am not mista6en* we are all
a.reed t-at j0sti,e* and j0st men and t-in.s and a,tions* are all
2air* and* i2 a 1erson were to maintain t-at j0st men* e4en w-en
t-ey are de2ormed in body* are still 1er2e,tly bea0ti20l in res1e,t o2
t-e e:,ellent j0sti,e o2 t-eir minds* no one wo0ld say t-at t-ere
was any in,onsisten,y in t-is/
Cle/ #-ey wo0ld be ;0ite ri.-t/
At-/ Per-a1s) b0t let 0s ,onsider 20rt-er* t-at i2 all t-in.s
w-i,- are j0st are 2air and -ono0rable* in t-e term AallA we m0st
in,l0de j0st s022erin.s w-i,- are t-e ,orrelati4es o2 j0st a,tions/
Cle/ And w-at is t-e in2eren,e3
At-/ #-e in2eren,e is* t-at a j0st a,tion in 1arta6in. o2 t-e j0st
1arta6es also in t-e same de.ree o2 t-e 2air and -ono0rable/
Cle/ Certainly/
At-/ And m0st not a s022erin. w-i,- 1arta6es o2 t-e j0st 1rin,i1le
be admitted to be in t-e same de.ree 2air and -ono0rable* i2 t-e
ar.0ment is ,onsistently ,arried o0t3
Cle/ #r0e/
At-/ B0t t-en i2 we admit s022erin. to be j0st and yet
dis-ono0rable* and t-e term Adis-ono0rableA is a11lied to j0sti,e*
will not t-e j0st and t-e -ono0rable disa.ree3
Cle/ W-at do yo0 mean3
At-/ A t-in. not di22i,0lt to 0nderstand) t-e laws w-i,- -a4e been
already ena,ted wo0ld seem to anno0n,e 1rin,i1les dire,tly o11osed
to w-at we are sayin./
Cle/ #o w-at3
At-/ We -ad ena,ted* i2 I am not mista6en* t-at t-e robber o2
tem1les* and -e w-o was t-e enemy o2 law and order* mi.-t j0stly be
10t to deat-* and we were 1ro,eedin. to ma6e di4ers ot-er ena,tments
o2 a similar nat0re/ B0t we sto11ed s-ort* be,a0se we saw t-at t-ese
s022erin.s are in2inite in n0mber and de.ree* and t-at t-ey are* at
on,e* t-e most j0st and also t-e most dis-ono0rable o2 all s022erin.s/
And i2 t-is be tr0e* are not t-e j0st and t-e -ono0rable at one time
all t-e same* and at anot-er time in t-e most diametri,al o11osition3
Cle/ S0,- a11ears to be t-e ,ase/
At-/ In t-is dis,ordant and in,onsistent 2as-ion does t-e lan.0a.e
o2 t-e many rend as0nder t-e -ono0rable and j0st/
Cle/ 8ery tr0e* Stran.er/
At-/ #-en now* Cleinias* let 0s see -ow 2ar we o0rsel4es are
,onsistent abo0t t-ese matters/
Cle/ Consistent in w-at3
At-/ I t-in6 t-at I -a4e ,learly stated in t-e 2ormer 1art o2 t-e
dis,0ssion* b0t i2 I did not* let me now state9
Cle/ W-at3
At-/ #-at all bad men are always in4ol0ntarily bad) and 2rom t-is
m0st 1ro,eed to draw a 20rt-er in2eren,e/
Cle/ W-at is it3
At-/ #-at t-e 0nj0st man may be bad* b0t t-at -e is bad a.ainst
-is will/ !ow t-at an a,tion w-i,- is 4ol0ntary s-o0ld be done
in4ol0ntarily is a ,ontradi,tion) w-ere2ore -e w-o maintains t-at
inj0sti,e is in4ol0ntary will deem t-at t-e 0nj0st does inj0sti,e
in4ol0ntarily/ I too admit t-at all men do inj0sti,e in4ol0ntarily*
and i2 any ,ontentio0s or dis10tatio0s 1erson says t-at men are 0nj0st
a.ainst t-eir will* and yet t-at many do inj0sti,e willin.ly* I do not
a.ree wit- -im/ B0t* t-en* -ow ,an I a4oid bein. in,onsistent wit-
mysel2* i2 yo0* Cleinias* and yo0* +e.ill0s* say to me9Well* Stran.er*
i2 all t-is be as yo0 say* -ow abo0t le.islatin. 2or t-e ,ity o2 t-e
+a.netes9s-all we le.islate or not9w-at do yo0 ad4ise3 Certainly we
will* I s-o0ld re1ly/ #-en will yo0 determine 2or t-em w-at are
4ol0ntary and w-at are in4ol0ntary ,rimes* and s-all we ma6e t-e
10nis-ments .reater o2 4ol0ntary errors and ,rimes and less 2or t-e
in4ol0ntary3 or s-all we ma6e t-e 10nis-ment o2 all to be ali6e* 0nder
t-e idea t-at t-ere is no s0,- t-in. as 4ol0ntary ,rime3
Cle/ 8ery .ood* Stran.er) and w-at s-all we say in answer to t-ese
obje,tions3
At-/ #-at is a 4ery 2air ;0estion/ In t-e 2irst 1la,e* let 0s9
Cle/ %o w-at3
At-/ Let 0s remember w-at -as been well said by 0s already* t-at o0r
ideas o2 j0sti,e are in t-e -i.-est de.ree ,on20sed and ,ontradi,tory/
Bearin. t-is in mind* let 0s 1ro,eed to as6 o0rsel4es on,e more
w-et-er we -a4e dis,o4ered a way o0t o2 t-e di22i,0lty/ $a4e we e4er
determined in w-at res1e,t t-ese two ,lasses o2 a,tions di22er 2rom
one anot-er3 "or in all states and by all le.islators w-atsoe4er*
two 6inds o2 a,tions -a4e been distin.0is-ed9t-e one* 4ol0ntary* t-e
ot-er* in4ol0ntary) and t-ey -a4e le.islated abo0t t-em a,,ordin.ly/
B0t s-all t-is new word o2 o0rs* li6e an ora,le o2 &od* be only
s1o6en* and .et away wit-o0t .i4in. any e:1lanation or 4eri2i,ation o2
itsel23 $ow ,an a word not 0nderstood be t-e basis o2 le.islation3
Im1ossible/ Be2ore 1ro,eedin. to le.islate* t-en* we m0st 1ro4e t-at
t-ey are two* and w-at is t-e di22eren,e between t-em* t-at w-en we
im1ose t-e 1enalty 01on eit-er* e4ery one may 0nderstand o0r 1ro1osal*
and be able in some way to j0d.e w-et-er t-e 1enalty is 2itly or
0n2itly in2li,ted/
Cle/ I a.ree wit- yo0* Stran.er) 2or one o2 two t-in.s is ,ertain(
eit-er we m0st not say t-at all 0nj0st a,ts are in4ol0ntary* or we
m0st s-ow t-e meanin. and tr0t- o2 t-is statement/
At-/ O2 t-ese two alternati4es* t-e one is ;0ite intolerable9not
to s1ea6 w-at I belie4e to be t-e tr0t- wo0ld be to me 0nlaw20l and
0n-oly/ B0t i2 a,ts o2 inj0sti,e ,annot be di4ided into 4ol0ntary
and in4ol0ntary* I m0st endea4o0r to 2ind some ot-er distin,tion
between t-em/
Cle/ 8ery tr0e* Stran.er) t-ere ,annot be two o1inions amon. 0s 01on
t-at 1oint/
At-/ e2le,t* t-en) t-ere are -0rts o2 4ario0s 6inds done by t-e
,iti<ens to one anot-er in t-e inter,o0rse o2 li2e* a22ordin.
1lenti20l e:am1les bot- o2 t-e 4ol0ntary and in4ol0ntary/
Cle/ Certainly/
At-/ I wo0ld not -a4e any one s011ose t-at all t-ese -0rts are
inj0ries* and t-at t-ese inj0ries are o2 two 6inds9one* 4ol0ntary* and
t-e ot-er* in4ol0ntary) 2or t-e in4ol0ntary -0rts o2 all men are ;0ite
as many and as .reat as t-e 4ol0ntary3 And 1lease to ,onsider
w-et-er I am ri.-t or ;0ite wron. in w-at I am .oin. to say) 2or I
deny* Cleinias and +e.ill0s* t-at -e w-o -arms anot-er in4ol0ntarily
does -im an inj0ry in4ol0ntarily* nor s-o0ld I le.islate abo0t s0,- an
a,t 0nder t-e idea t-at I am le.islatin. 2or an in4ol0ntary inj0ry/
B0t I s-o0ld rat-er say t-at s0,- a -0rt* w-et-er .reat or small* is
not an inj0ry at all) and* on t-e ot-er -and* i2 I am ri.-t* w-en a
bene2it is wron.ly ,on2erred* t-e a0t-or o2 t-e bene2it may o2ten be
said to inj0re/ "or I maintain* O my 2riends* t-at t-e mere .i4in.
or ta6in. away o2 anyt-in. is not to be des,ribed eit-er as j0st or
0nj0st) b0t t-e le.islator -as to ,onsider w-et-er man6ind do .ood
or -arm to one anot-er o0t o2 a j0st 1rin,i1le and intention/ On t-e
distin,tion between inj0sti,e and -0rt -e m0st 2i: -is eye) and w-en
t-ere is -0rt* -e m0st* as 2ar as -e ,an* ma6e t-e -0rt .ood by law*
and sa4e t-at w-i,- is r0ined* and raise 01 t-at w-i,- is 2allen*
and ma6e t-at w-i,- is dead or wo0nded w-ole/ And w-en ,om1ensation
-as been .i4en 2or inj0sti,e* t-e law m0st always see6 to win o4er t-e
doers and s022erers o2 t-e se4eral -0rts 2rom 2eelin.s o2 enmity to
t-ose o2 2riends-i1/
Cle/ 8ery .ood/
At-/ #-en as to 0nj0st -0rts >and .ains also* s011osin. t-e
inj0sti,e to brin. .ain?* o2 t-ese we may -eal as many as are
,a1able o2 bein. -ealed* re.ardin. t-em as diseases o2 t-e so0l) and
t-e ,0re o2 inj0sti,e will ta6e t-e 2ollowin. dire,tion/
Cle/ W-at dire,tion3
At-/ W-en any one ,ommits any inj0sti,e* small or .reat* t-e law
will admonis- and ,om1el -im eit-er ne4er at all to do t-e li6e a.ain*
or ne4er 4ol0ntarily* or at any rate in a 2ar less de.ree) and -e m0st
in addition 1ay 2or t-e -0rt/ W-et-er t-e end is to be attained by
word or a,tion* wit- 1leas0re or 1ain* by .i4in. or ta6in. away
1ri4ile.es* by means o2 2ines or .i2ts* or in w-atsoe4er way t-e law
s-all 1ro,eed to ma6e a man -ate inj0sti,e* and lo4e or not -ate t-e
nat0re o2 t-e j0st9t-is is ;0ite t-e noblest wor6 o2 law/ B0t i2 t-e
le.islator sees any one w-o is in,0rable* 2or -im -e will a11oint a
law and a 1enalty/ $e 6nows ;0ite well t-at to s0,- men t-emsel4es
t-ere is no 1ro2it in t-e ,ontin0an,e o2 t-eir li4es* and t-at t-ey
wo0ld do a do0ble .ood to t-e rest o2 man6ind i2 t-ey wo0ld ta6e t-eir
de1art0re* inasm0,- as t-ey wo0ld be an e:am1le to ot-er men not to
o22end* and t-ey wo0ld relie4e t-e ,ity o2 bad ,iti<ens/ In s0,-
,ases* and in s0,- ,ases only* t-e le.islator o0.-t to in2li,t deat-
as t-e 10nis-ment o2 o22en,es/
Cle/ W-at yo0 -a4e said a11ears to me to be 4ery reasonable* b0t
will yo0 2a4o0r me by statin. a little more ,learly t-e di22eren,e
between -0rt and inj0sti,e* and t-e 4ario0s ,om1li,ations o2 t-e
4ol0ntary and in4ol0ntary w-i,- enter into t-em3
At-/ I will endea4o0r to do as yo0 wis-(9Con,ernin. t-e so0l*
t-0s m0,- wo0ld be .enerally said and allowed* t-at one element in -er
nat0re is 1assion* w-i,- may be des,ribed eit-er as a state or a
1art o2 -er* and is -ard to be stri4en a.ainst and ,ontended wit-* and
by irrational 2or,e o4ert0rns many t-in.s/
Cle/ 8ery tr0e/
At-/ And 1leas0re is not t-e same wit- 1assion* b0t -as an
o11osite 1ower* wor6in. -er will by 1ers0asion and by t-e 2or,e o2
de,eit in all t-in.s/
Cle/ @0ite tr0e/
At-/ A man may tr0ly say t-at i.noran,e is a t-ird ,a0se o2
,rimes/ I.noran,e* -owe4er* may be ,on4eniently di4ided by t-e
le.islator into two sorts( t-ere is sim1le i.noran,e* w-i,- is t-e
so0r,e o2 li.-ter o22en,es* and do0ble i.noran,e* w-i,- is a,,om1anied
by a ,on,eit o2 wisdom) and -e w-o is 0nder t-e in2l0en,e o2 t-e
latter 2an,ies t-at -e 6nows all abo0t matters o2 w-i,- -e 6nows
not-in./ #-is se,ond 6ind o2 i.noran,e* w-en 1ossessed o2 1ower and
stren.t-* will be -eld by t-e le.islator to be t-e so0r,e o2 .reat and
monstro0s times* b0t w-en attended wit- wea6ness* will only res0lt
in t-e errors o2 ,-ildren and old men) and t-ese -e will treat as
errors* and will ma6e laws a,,ordin.ly 2or t-ose w-o ,ommit t-em*
w-i,- will be t-e mildest and most mer,i20l o2 all laws/
Cle/ 7o0 are 1er2e,tly ri.-t/
At-/ We all o2 0s remar6 o2 one man t-at -e is s01erior to
1leas0re and 1assion* and o2 anot-er t-at -e is in2erior to t-em)
and t-is is tr0e/
Cle/ Certainly/
At-/ B0t no one was e4er yet -eard to say t-at one o2 0s is s01erior
and anot-er in2erior to i.noran,e/
Cle/ 8ery tr0e/
At-/ We are s1ea6in. o2 moti4es w-i,- in,ite men to t-e 20l2ilment
o2 t-eir will) alt-o0.- an indi4id0al may be o2ten drawn by t-em in
o11osite dire,tions at t-e same time/
Cle/ 7es* o2ten/
At-/ And now I ,an de2ine to yo0 ,learly* and wit-o0t ambi.0ity*
w-at I mean by t-e j0st and 0nj0st* a,,ordin. to my notion o2
t-em(9W-en an.er and 2ear* and 1leas0re and 1ain* and jealo0sies and
desires* tyranni<e o4er t-e so0l* w-et-er t-ey do any -arm or not9I
,all all t-is inj0sti,e/ B0t w-en t-e o1inion o2 t-e best* in w-ate4er
1art o2 -0man nat0re states or indi4id0als may s011ose t-at to
dwell* -as dominion in t-e so0l and orders t-e li2e o2 e4ery man* e4en
i2 it be sometimes mista6en* yet w-at is done in a,,ordan,e t-erewit-*
t-e 1rin,i1le in indi4id0als w-i,- obeys t-is r0le* and is best 2or
t-e w-ole li2e o2 man* is to be ,alled j0st) alt-o0.- t-e -0rt done by
mista6e is t-o0.-t by many to be in4ol0ntary inj0sti,e/ Lea4in. t-e
;0estion o2 names* abo0t w-i,- we are not .oin. to ;0arrel* and -a4in.
already delineated t-ree so0r,es o2 error* we may be.in by re,allin.
t-em somew-at more 4i4idly to o0r memory(9One o2 t-em was o2 t-e
1ain20l sort* w-i,- we denominate an.er and 2ear/
Cle/ @0ite ri.-t/
At-/ #-ere was a se,ond ,onsistin. o2 1leas0res and desires* and a
t-ird o2 -o1es* w-i,- aimed at tr0e o1inion abo0t t-e best/ #-e latter
bein. s0bdi4ided into t-ree* we now .et 2i4e so0r,es o2 a,tions) and
2or t-ese 2i4e we will ma6e laws o2 two 6inds/
Cle/ W-at are t-e two 6inds3
At-/ #-ere is one 6ind o2 a,tions done by 4iolen,e and in t-e
li.-t o2 day* and anot-er 6ind o2 a,tions w-i,- are done in dar6ness
and wit- se,ret de,eit* or sometimes bot- wit- 4iolen,e and de,eit)
t-e laws ,on,ernin. t-ese last o0.-t to -a4e a ,-ara,ter o2 se4erity/
Cle/ !at0rally/
At-/ And now let 0s ret0rn 2rom t-is di.ression and ,om1lete t-e
wor6 o2 le.islation/ Laws -a4e been already ena,ted by 0s ,on,ernin.
t-e robbers o2 t-e &ods* and ,on,ernin. traitors* and also
,on,ernin. t-ose w-o ,orr01t t-e laws 2or t-e 10r1ose o2 s0b4ertin.
t-e .o4ernment/ A man may 4ery li6ely ,ommit some o2 t-ese ,rimes*
eit-er in a state o2 madness or w-en a22e,ted by disease* or 0nder t-e
in2l0en,e o2 e:treme old a.e* or in a 2it o2 ,-ildis- wantonness*
-imsel2 no better t-an a ,-ild/ And i2 t-is be made e4ident to t-e
j0d.es ele,ted to try t-e ,a0se* on t-e a11eal o2 t-e ,riminal or
-is ad4o,ate* and -e be j0d.ed to -a4e been in t-is state w-en -e
,ommitted t-e o22en,e* -e s-all sim1ly 1ay 2or t-e -0rt w-i,- -e may
-a4e done to anot-er) b0t -e s-all be e:em1t 2rom ot-er 1enalties*
0nless -e -a4e slain some one* and -a4e on -is -ands t-e stain o2
blood/ And in t-at ,ase -e s-all .o to anot-er land and ,o0ntry* and
t-ere dwell 2or a year) and i2 -e ret0rn be2ore t-e e:1iration o2
t-e time w-i,- t-e law a11oints* or e4en set -is 2oot at all on -is
nati4e land* -e s-all be bo0nd by t-e .0ardians o2 t-e law in t-e
10bli, 1rison 2or two years* and t-en .o 2ree/
$a4in. be.0n to s1ea6 o2 -omi,ide* let 0s endea4o0r to lay down laws
,on,ernin. e4ery di22erent 6ind o2 -omi,ides* and* 2irst o2 all*
,on,ernin. 4iolent and in4ol0ntary -omi,ides/ I2 any one in an
at-leti, ,ontest* and at t-e 10bli, .ames* in4ol0ntarily 6ills a
2riend* and -e dies eit-er at t-e time or a2terwards o2 t-e blows
w-i,- -e -as re,ei4ed) or i2 t-e li6e mis2ort0ne -a11ens to any one in
war* or military e:er,ises* or mimi, ,ontests/ o2 w-i,- t-e
ma.istrates enjoin t-e 1ra,ti,e* w-et-er wit- or wit-o0t arms* w-en -e
-as been 10ri2ied a,,ordin. to t-e law bro0.-t 2rom %el1-i relatin. to
t-ese matters* -e s-all be inno,ent/ And so in t-e ,ase o2 1-ysi,ians(
i2 t-eir 1atient dies a.ainst t-eir will* t-ey s-all be -eld .0iltless
by t-e law/ And i2 one slay anot-er wit- -is own -and* b0t
0nintentionally* w-et-er -e be 0narmed or -a4e some instr0ment or dart
in -is -and) or i2 -e 6ill -im by administerin. 2ood or drin6 or by
t-e a11li,ation o2 2ire or ,old* or by s022o,atin. -im* w-et-er -e
do t-e deed by -is own -and* or by t-e a.en,y o2 ot-ers* -e s-all be
deemed t-e a.ent* and s-all s022er one o2 t-e 2ollowin.
1enalties(9I2 -e 6ill t-e sla4e o2 anot-er in t-e belie2 t-at -e is
-is own* -e s-all bear t-e master o2 t-e dead man -armless 2rom
loss* or s-all 1ay a 1enalty o2 twi,e t-e 4al0e o2 t-e dead man* w-i,-
t-e j0d.es s-all assess) b0t 10ri2i,ations m0st be 0sed .reater and
more n0mero0s t-an 2or t-ose w-o ,ommitted -omi,ide at t-e .ames)9w-at
t-ey are to be* t-e inter1reters w-om t-e &od a11oints s-all be
a0t-ori<ed to de,lare/ And i2 a man 6ills -is own sla4e* w-en -e -as
been 10ri2ied a,,ordin. to laws -e s-all be ;0it o2 t-e -omi,ide/
And i2 a man 6ills a 2reeman 0nintentionally* -e s-all 0nder.o t-e
same 10ri2i,ation as -e did w-o 6illed t-e sla4e/ B0t let -im not
2or.et also a tale o2 olden time* w-i,- is to t-is e22e,t(9$e w-o
-as s022ered a 4iolent end* w-en newly dead* i2 -e -as -ad t-e so0l o2
a 2reeman in li2e* is an.ry wit- t-e a0t-or o2 -is deat-) and bein.
-imsel2 20ll o2 2ear and 1ani, by reason o2 -is 4iolent end* w-en -e
sees -is m0rderer wal6in. abo0t in -is own a,,0stomed -a0nts* -e is
stri,6en wit- terror and be,omes disordered* and t-is disorder o2 -is*
aided by t-e .0ilty re,olle,tion o2 is ,omm0ni,ated by -im wit-
o4erw-elmin. 2or,e to t-e m0rderer and -is deeds/ W-ere2ore also t-e
m0rderer m0st .o o0t o2 t-e way o2 -is 4i,tim 2or t-e entire 1eriod o2
a year* and not -imsel2 be 2o0nd in any s1ot w-i,- was 2amiliar to -im
t-ro0.-o0t t-e ,o0ntry/ And i2 t-e dead man be a stran.er* t-e
-omi,ide s-all be 6e1t 2rom t-e ,o0ntry o2 t-e stran.er d0rin. a
li6e 1eriod/ I2 any one 4ol0ntarily obeys t-is law* t-e ne:t o2 6in to
t-e de,eased* seein. all t-at -as -a11ened* s-all ta6e 1ity on -im*
and ma6e 1ea,e wit- -im* and s-ow -im all .entleness/ B0t i2 any one
is disobedient* eit-er 4ent0res to .o to any o2 t-e tem1les and
sa,ri2i,e 0n10ri2ied* or will not ,ontin0e in e:ile d0rin. t-e
a11ointed time* t-e ne:t o2 6in to t-e de,eased s-all 1ro,eed
a.ainst -im 2or m0rder) and i2 -e be ,on4i,ted* e4ery 1art o2 -is
10nis-ment s-all be do0bled/
And i2 t-e ne:t o2 6in do not 1ro,eed a.ainst t-e 1er1etrator o2 t-e
,rime* t-en t-e 1oll0tion s-all be deemed to 2all 01on -is own
-ead)9t-e m0rdered man will 2i: t-e .0ilt 01on -is 6insman* and -e w-o
-as a mind to 1ro,eed a.ainst -im may ,om1el -im to be absent 2rom -is
,o0ntry d0rin. 2i4e years* a,,ordin. to law/ I2 a stran.er
0nintentionally 6ill a stran.er w-o is dwellin. in t-e ,ity* -e w-o
li6es s-all 1rose,0te t-e ,a0se a,,ordin. to t-e same r0les/ I2 -e
be a meti,* let -im be absent 2or a year* or i2 -e be an entire
stran.er* in addition to t-e 10ri2i,ation* w-et-er -e -a4e slain a
stran.er* or a meti,* or a ,iti<en* -e s-all be banis-ed 2or li2e 2rom
t-e ,o0ntry w-i,- is in 1ossession o2 o0r laws/ And i2 -e ret0rn
,ontrary to law* let t-e .0ardians o2 t-e law 10nis- -im wit- deat-)
and let t-em -and o4er -is 1ro1erty* i2 -e -a4e any* to -im w-o is
ne:t o2 6in to t-e s022erer/ And i2 -e be wre,6ed* and dri4en on t-e
,oast a.ainst -is will* -e s-all ta6e 01 -is abode on t-e seas-ore*
wettin. -is 2eet in t-e sea* and wat,-in. 2or an o11ort0nity o2
sailin.) b0t i2 -e be bro0.-t by land* and is not -is own master*
let t-e ma.istrate w-om -e 2irst ,omes a,ross in t-e ,ity* release -im
and send -im 0n-armed o4er t-e border/
I2 any one slays a 2reeman wit- -is own -and and t-e deed be done in
1assion* in t-e ,ase o2 s0,- a,tions we m0st be.in by ma6in. a
distin,tion/ "or a deed is done 2rom 1assion eit-er w-en men s0ddenly*
and wit-o0t intention to 6ill* ,a0se t-e deat- o2 anot-er by blows and
t-e li6e on a momentary im10lse* and are sorry 2or t-e deed
immediately a2terwards) or a.ain* w-en a2ter -a4in. been ins0lted in
deed or word* men 10rs0e re4en.e* and 6ill a 1erson intentionally* and
are not sorry 2or t-e a,t/ And* t-ere2ore* we m0st ass0me t-at t-ese
-omi,ides are o2 two 6inds* bot- o2 t-em arisin. 2rom 1assion* w-i,-
may be j0stly said to be in a mean between t-e 4ol0ntary and
in4ol0ntary) at t-e same time* t-ey are neit-er o2 t-em anyt-in.
more t-an a li6eness or s-adow o2 eit-er/ $e w-o treas0res 01 -is
an.er* and a4en.es -imsel2* not immediately and at t-e moment* b0t
wit- insidio0s desi.n* and a2ter an inter4al* is li6e t-e 4ol0ntary)
b0t -e w-o does not treas0re 01 -is an.er* and ta6es 4en.ean,e on
t-e instant* and wit-o0t mali,e 1re1ense* a11roa,-es to t-e
in4ol0ntary) and yet e4en -e is not alto.et-er in4ol0ntary* b0t only
t-e ima.e or s-adow o2 t-e in4ol0ntary) w-ere2ore abo0t -omi,ides
,ommitted in -ot blood* t-ere is a di22i,0lty in determinin. w-et-er
in le.islatin. we s-all re,6on t-em as 4ol0ntary or as 1artly
in4ol0ntary/ #-e best and tr0est 4iew is to re.ard t-em res1e,ti4ely
as li6enesses only o2 t-e 4ol0ntary and in4ol0ntary* and to
distin.0is- t-em a,,ordin.ly as t-ey are done wit- or wit-o0t
1remeditation/ And we s-o0ld ma6e t-e 1enalties -ea4ier 2or t-ose
w-o ,ommit -omi,ide wit- an.ry 1remeditation* and li.-ter 2or t-ose
w-o do not 1remeditate* b0t smite 01on t-e instant) 2or t-at w-i,-
is li6e a .reater e4il s-o0ld be 10nis-ed more se4erely* and t-at
w-i,- is li6e a less e4il s-o0ld be 10nis-ed less se4erely( t-is s-all
be t-e r0le o2 o0r laws/
Cle/ Certainly/
At-/ Let 0s 1ro,eed(9I2 any one slays a 2ree man wit- -is own
-and* and t-e deed be done in a moment o2 an.er* and wit-o0t
1remeditation* let t-e o22ender s022er in ot-er res1e,ts as t-e
in4ol0ntary -omi,ide wo0ld -a4e s022ered* and also 0nder.o an e:ile o2
two years* t-at -e may learn to s,-ool -is 1assions/ B0t -e w-o
slays anot-er 2rom 1assion* yet wit- 1remeditation* s-all in ot-er
res1e,ts s022er as t-e 2ormer) and to t-is s-all be added an e:ile
o2 t-ree instead o2 two years9-is 10nis-ment is to be lon.er be,a0se
-is 1assion is .reater/ #-e manner o2 t-eir ret0rn s-all be on t-is
wise( >and -ere t-e law -as di22i,0lty in determinin. e:a,tly) 2or
in some ,ases t-e m0rderer w-o is j0d.ed by t-e law to be t-e worse
may really be t-e less ,r0el* and -e w-o is j0d.ed t-e less ,r0el
may be really t-e worse* and may -a4e e:e,0ted t-e m0rder in a more
sa4a.e manner* w-ereas t-e ot-er may -a4e been .entler/ B0t in .eneral
t-e de.rees o2 .0ilt will be s0,- as we -a4e des,ribed t-em/ O2 all
t-ese t-in.s t-e .0ardians o2 t-e law m0st ta6e ,o.nisan,e?(9W-en a
-omi,ide o2 eit-er 6ind -as ,om1leted -is term o2 e:ile* t-e .0ardians
s-all send twel4e j0d.es to t-e borders o2 t-e land) t-ese d0rin.
t-e inter4al s-all -a4e in2ormed t-emsel4es o2 t-e a,tions o2 t-e
,riminals* and t-ey s-all j0d.e res1e,tin. t-eir 1ardon and re,e1tion)
and t-e -omi,ides s-all abide by t-eir j0d.ment/ B0t i2 a2ter t-ey
-a4e ret0rned -ome* any one o2 t-em in a moment o2 an.er re1eats t-e
deed* let -im be an e:ile* and ret0rn no more) or i2 -e ret0rns* let
-im s022er as t-e stran.er was to s022er in a similar ,ase/ $e w-o
6ills -is own sla4e s-all 0nder.o a 10ri2i,ation* b0t i2 -e 6ills
t-e sla4e o2 anot-er in an.er* -e s-all 1ay twi,e t-e amo0nt o2 t-e
loss to -is owner/ And i2 any -omi,ide is disobedient to t-e law*
and wit-o0t 10ri2i,ation 1oll0tes t-e a.ora* or t-e .ames* or t-e
tem1les* -e w-o 1leases may brin. to trial t-e ne:t o2 6in to t-e dead
man 2or 1ermittin. -im* and t-e m0rderer wit- -im* and may ,om1el
t-e one to e:a,t and t-e ot-er to s022er a do0ble amo0nt o2 2ines
and 10ri2i,ations) and t-e a,,0ser s-all -imsel2 re,ei4e t-e 2ine in
a,,ordan,e wit- t-e law/ I2 a sla4e in a 2it o2 1assion 6ills -is
master* t-e 6indred o2 t-e de,eased man may do wit- t-e m0rderer
>1ro4ided only t-ey do not s1are -is li2e? w-ate4er t-ey 1lease* and
t-ey will be 10re) or i2 -e 6ills a 2reeman* w-o is not -is master*
t-e owner s-all .i4e 01 t-e sla4e to t-e relati4es o2 t-e de,eased*
and t-ey s-all be 0nder an obli.ation to 10t -im to deat-* b0t t-is
may be done in any manner w-i,- t-ey 1lease/
And i2 >w-i,- is a rare o,,0rren,e* b0t does sometimes -a11en? a
2at-er or a mot-er in a moment o2 1assion slays a son or da0.-ter by
blows* or some ot-er 4iolen,e* t-e slayer s-all 0nder.o t-e same
10ri2i,ation as in ot-er ,ases* and be e:iled d0rin. t-ree years)
b0t w-en t-e e:ile ret0rns t-e wi2e s-all se1arate 2rom t-e -0sband*
and t-e -0sband 2rom t-e wi2e* and t-ey s-all ne4er a2terwards be.et
,-ildren to.et-er* or li4e 0nder t-e same roo2* or 1arta6e o2 t-e same
sa,red rites wit- t-ose w-om t-ey -a4e de1ri4ed o2 a ,-ild or o2 a
brot-er/ And -e w-o is im1io0s and disobedient in s0,- a ,ase s-all be
bro0.-t to trial 2or im1iety by any one w-o 1leases/ I2 in a 2it o2
an.er a -0sband 6ills -is wedded wi2e* or t-e wi2e -er -0sband* t-e
slayer s-all 0nder.o t-e same 10ri2i,ation* and t-e term o2 e:ile
s-all be t-ree years/ And w-en -e w-o -as ,ommitted any s0,- ,rime
ret0rns* let -im -a4e no ,omm0ni,ation in sa,red rites wit- -is
,-ildren* neit-er let -im sit at t-e same table wit- t-em* and t-e
2at-er or son w-o disobeys s-all be liable to be bro0.-t to trial
2or im1iety by any one w-o 1leases/ I2 a brot-er or a sister in a
2it o2 1assion 6ills a brot-er or a sister* t-ey s-all 0nder.o
10ri2i,ation and e:ile* as was t-e ,ase wit- 1arents w-o 6illed
t-eir o22s1rin.( t-ey s-all not ,ome 0nder t-e same roo2* or s-are
in t-e sa,red rites o2 t-ose w-om t-ey -a4e de1ri4ed o2 t-eir
bret-ren* or o2 t-eir ,-ildren/
And -e w-o is disobedient s-all be j0stly liable to t-e law
,on,ernin. im1iety* w-i,- relates to t-ese matters/ I2 any one is so
4iolent in -is 1assion a.ainst -is 1arents* t-at in t-e madness o2 -is
an.er -e dares to 6ill one o2 t-em* i2 t-e m0rdered 1erson be2ore
dyin. 2reely 2or.i4es t-e m0rderer* let -im 0nder.o t-e 10ri2i,ation
w-i,- is assi.ned to t-ose w-o -a4e been .0ilty o2 in4ol0ntary
-omi,ide* and do as t-ey do* and -e s-all be 10re/ B0t i2 -e be not
a,;0itted* t-e 1er1etrator o2 s0,- a deed s-all be amenable to many
laws)9-e s-all be amenable to t-e e:treme 10nis-ments 2or assa0lt* and
im1iety* and robbin. o2 tem1les* 2or -e -as robbed -is 1arent o2 li2e)
and i2 a man ,o0ld be slain more t-an on,e* most j0stly wo0ld -e w-o
in a 2it o2 1assion -as slain 2at-er or mot-er* 0nder.o many deat-s/
$ow ,an -e* w-om* alone o2 all men* e4en in de2en,e o2 -is li2e* and
w-en abo0t to s022er deat- at t-e -ands o2 -is 1arents* no law will
allow to 6ill -is 2at-er or -is mot-er w-o are t-e a0t-ors o2 -is
bein.* and w-om t-e le.islator will ,ommand to end0re any e:tremity
rat-er t-an do t-is9-ow ,an -e* I say* law20lly re,ei4e any ot-er
10nis-ment3 Let deat- t-en be t-e a11ointed 10nis-ment o2 -im w-o in a
2it o2 1assion slays -is 2at-er or -is mot-er/ B0t i2 brot-er 6ills
brot-er in a ,i4il broil* or 0nder ot-er li6e ,ir,0mstan,es* i2 t-e
ot-er -as be.0n* and -e only de2ends -imsel2* let -im be 2ree 2rom
.0ilt* as -e wo0ld be i2 -e -ad slain an enemy) and t-e same r0le will
a11ly i2 a ,iti<en 6ill a ,iti<en* or a stran.er a stran.er/ Or i2 a
stran.er 6ill a ,iti<en or a ,iti<en a stran.er in sel29de2en,e* let
-im be 2ree 2rom .0ilt in li6e manner) and so in t-e ,ase o2 a sla4e
w-o -as 6illed a sla4e) b0t i2 a sla4e -a4e 6illed a 2reeman in
sel29de2en,e* let -im be s0bje,t to t-e same law as -e w-o -as
6illed a 2at-er) and let t-e law abo0t t-e remission o2 1enalties in
t-e ,ase o2 1arri,ide a11ly e;0ally to e4ery ot-er remission/ W-ene4er
any s022erer o2 -is own a,,ord remits t-e .0ilt o2 -omi,ide to
anot-er* 0nder t-e idea t-at -is a,t was in4ol0ntary* let t-e
1er1etrator o2 t-e deed 0nder.o a 10ri2i,ation and remain in e:ile 2or
a year* a,,ordin. to law/
Eno0.- -as been said o2 m0rders 4iolent and in4ol0ntary and
,ommitted in 1assion( we -a4e now to s1ea6 o2 4ol0ntary ,rimes done
wit- inj0sti,e o2 e4ery 6ind and wit- 1remeditation* t-ro0.- t-e
in2l0en,e o2 1leas0res* and desires* and jealo0sies/
Cle/ 8ery .ood/
At-/ Let 0s 2irst s1ea6* as 2ar as we are able* o2 t-eir 4ario0s
6inds/ #-e .reatest ,a0se o2 t-em is l0st* w-i,- .ets t-e mastery o2
t-e so0l maddened by desire) and t-is is most ,ommonly 2o0nd to
e:ist w-ere t-e 1assion rei.ns w-i,- is stron.est and most 1re4alent
amon. mass o2 man6ind( I mean w-ere t-e 1ower o2 wealt- breeds endless
desires o2 ne4er9to9be9satis2ied a,;0isition* ori.inatin. in nat0ral
dis1osition* and a miserable want o2 ed0,ation/ O2 t-is want o2
ed0,ation* t-e 2alse 1raise o2 wealt- w-i,- is br0ited abo0t bot-
amon. $ellenes and barbarians is t-e ,a0se) t-ey deem t-at to be t-e
2irst o2 .oods w-i,- in reality is only t-e t-ird/ And in t-is way
t-ey wron. bot- 1osterity and t-emsel4es* 2or not-in. ,an be nobler
and better t-an t-at t-e tr0t- abo0t wealt- s-o0ld be s1o6en in all
states9namely* t-at ri,-es are 2or t-e sa6e o2 t-e body* as t-e body
is 2or t-e sa6e o2 t-e so0l/ #-ey are .ood* and wealt- is intended
by nat0re to be 2or t-e sa6e o2 t-em* and is t-ere2ore in2erior to
t-em bot-* and t-ird in order o2 e:,ellen,e/ #-is ar.0ment tea,-es
0s t-at -e w-o wo0ld be -a11y o0.-t not to see6 to be ri,-* or
rat-er -e s-o0ld see6 to be ri,- j0stly and tem1erately* and t-en
t-ere wo0ld be no m0rders in states re;0irin. to be 10r.ed away by
ot-er m0rders/ B0t now* as I said at 2irst* a4ari,e is t-e ,-ie2est
,a0se and so0r,e o2 t-e worst trials 2or 4ol0ntary -omi,ide/ A
se,ond ,a0se is ambition( t-is ,reates jealo0sies* w-i,- are
tro0blesome ,om1anions* abo4e all to t-e jealo0s man -imsel2* and in a
less de.ree to t-e ,-ie2s o2 t-e state/ And a t-ird ,a0se is
,owardly and 0nj0st 2ear* w-i,- -as been t-e o,,asion o2 many m0rders/
W-en a man is doin. or -as done somet-in. w-i,- -e desires t-at no one
s-o0ld 6now -im to be doin. or to -a4e done* -e will ta6e t-e li2e
o2 t-ose w-o are li6ely to in2orm o2 s0,- t-in.s* i2 -e -a4e no
ot-er means o2 .ettin. rid o2 t-em/ Let t-is be said as a 1rel0de
,on,ernin. ,rimes o2 4iolen,e in .eneral) and I m0st not omit to
mention a tradition w-i,- is 2irmly belie4ed by many* and -as been
re,ei4ed by t-em 2rom t-ose w-o are learned in t-e mysteries( t-ey say
t-at s0,- deeds will be 10nis-ed in t-e world below* and also t-at
w-en t-e 1er1etrators ret0rn to t-is world t-ey will 1ay t-e nat0ral
1enalty w-i,- is d0e to t-e s022erer* and end t-eir li4es in li6e
manner by t-e -and o2 anot-er/ I2 -e w-o is abo0t to ,ommit m0rder
belie4es t-is* and is made by t-e mere 1rel0de to dread s0,- a
1enalty* t-ere is no need to 1ro,eed wit- t-e 1ro,lamation o2 t-e law/
B0t i2 -e will not listen* let t-e 2ollowin. law be de,lared and
re.istered a.ainst -im(
W-oe4er s-all wron.20lly and o2 desi.n slay wit- -is own -and any o2
-is 6insmen* s-all in t-e 2irst 1la,e be de1ri4ed o2 le.al 1ri4ile.es)
and -e s-all not 1oll0te t-e tem1les* or t-e a.ora* or t-e -arbo0rs*
or any ot-er 1la,e o2 meetin.* w-et-er -e is 2orbidden o2 men or
not) 2or t-e law* w-i,- re1resents t-e w-ole state* 2orbids -im* and
always is and will be in t-e attit0de o2 2orbiddin. -im/ And i2 a
,o0sin or nearer relati4e o2 t-e de,eased* w-et-er on t-e male or
2emale side* does not 1rose,0te t-e -omi,ide w-en -e o0.-t* and -a4e
-im 1ro,laimed an o0tlaw* -e s-all in t-e 2irst 1la,e be in4ol4ed in
t-e 1oll0tion* and in,0r t-e -atred o2 t-e &ods* e4en as t-e ,0rse
o2 t-e law stirs 01 t-e 4oi,es o2 men a.ainst -im) and in t-e se,ond
1la,e -e s-all be liable to be 1rose,0ted by any one w-o is willin. to
in2li,t retrib0tion on be-al2 o2 t-e dead/ And -e w-o wo0ld a4en.e a
m0rder s-all obser4e all t-e 1re,a0tionary ,eremonies o2 la4ation* and
any ot-ers w-i,- t-e &od ,ommands in ,ases o2 t-is 6ind/ Let -im
-a4e 1ro,lamation made* and t-en .o 2ort- and ,om1el t-e 1er1etrator
to s022er t-e e:e,0tion o2 j0sti,e a,,ordin. to t-e law/ !ow t-e
le.islator may easily s-ow t-at t-ese t-in.s m0st be a,,om1lis-ed by
1rayers and sa,ri2i,es to ,ertain &ods* w-o are ,on,erned wit- t-e
1re4ention o2 m0rders in states/ B0t w-o t-ese &ods are* and w-at
s-o0ld be t-e tr0e manner o2 instit0tin. s0,- trials wit- d0e re.ard
to reli.ion* t-e .0ardians o2 t-e law* aided by t-e inter1reters*
and t-e 1ro1-ets* and t-e &od* s-all determine* and w-en t-ey -a4e
determined let t-em ,arry on t-e 1rose,0tion at law/ #-e ,a0se s-all
-a4e t-e same j0d.es w-o are a11ointed to de,ide in t-e ,ase o2
t-ose w-o 1l0nder tem1les/ Let -im w-o is ,on4i,ted be 10nis-ed wit-
deat-* and let -im not be b0ried in t-e ,o0ntry o2 t-e m0rdered man*
2or t-is wo0ld be s-ameless as well as im1io0s/ B0t i2 -e 2ly and will
not stand -is trial* let -im 2ly 2or e4er) or* i2 -e set 2oot anyw-ere
on any 1art o2 t-e m0rdered man=s ,o0ntry* let any relation o2 t-e
de,eased* or any ot-er ,iti<en w-o may 2irst -a11en to meet wit-
-im* 6ill -im wit- im10nity* or bind and deli4er -im to t-ose amon.
t-e j0d.es o2 t-e ,ase w-o are ma.istrates* t-at t-ey may 10t -im to
deat-/ And let t-e 1rose,0tor demand s0rety o2 -im w-om -e 1rose,0tes)
t-ree s0reties s022i,ient in t-e o1inion o2 t-e ma.istrates w-o try
t-e ,a0se s-all be 1ro4ided by -im* and t-ey s-all 0nderta6e to
1rod0,e -im at t-e trial/ B0t i2 -e be 0nwillin. or 0nable to
1ro4ide s0reties* t-en t-e ma.istrates s-all ta6e -im and 6ee1 -im
in bonds* and 1rod0,e -im at t-e day o2 trial/
I2 a man do not ,ommit a m0rder wit- -is own -and* b0t ,ontri4es t-e
deat- o2 anot-er* and is t-e a0t-or o2 t-e deed in intention and
desi.n* and -e ,ontin0es to dwell in t-e ,ity* -a4in. -is so0l not
10re o2 t-e .0ilt o2 m0rder* let -im be tried in t-e same way*
e:,e1t in w-at relates to t-e s0reties) and also* i2 -e be 2o0nd
.0ilty* -is body a2ter e:e,0tion may -a4e b0rial in -is nati4e land*
b0t in all ot-er res1e,ts -is ,ase s-all be as t-e 2ormer) and w-et-er
a stran.er s-all 6ill a ,iti<en* or a ,iti<en a stran.er* or a sla4e a
sla4e* t-ere s-all be no di22eren,e as to0,-in. m0rder by one=s own
-and or by ,ontri4an,e* e:,e1t in t-e matter o2 s0reties) and t-ese*
as -as been said* s-all be re;0ired o2 t-e a,t0al m0rderer only* and
-e w-o brin.s t-e a,,0sation s-all bind t-em o4er at t-e time/ I2 a
sla4e be ,on4i,ted o2 slayin. a 2reeman 4ol0ntarily* eit-er by -is own
-and or by ,ontri4an,e* let t-e 10bli, e:e,0tioner ta6e -im in t-e
dire,tion o2 t-e se10l,-re* to a 1la,e w-en,e -e ,an see t-e tomb o2
t-e dead man* and in2li,t 01on -im as many stri1es as t-e 1erson w-o
,a0.-t -im orders* and i2 -e s0r4i4e* let -im 10t -im to deat-/ And i2
any one 6ills a sla4e w-o -as done no wron.* be,a0se -e is a2raid t-at
-e may in2orm o2 some base and e4il deeds o2 -is own* or 2or any
similar reason* in s0,- a ,ase let -im 1ay t-e 1enalty o2 m0rder* as
-e wo0ld -a4e done i2 -e -ad slain a ,iti<en/ #-ere are t-in.s abo0t
w-i,- it is terrible and 0n1leasant to le.islate* b0t im1ossible not
to le.islate/ I2* 2or e:am1le* t-ere s-o0ld be m0rders o2 6insmen*
eit-er 1er1etrated by t-e -ands o2 6insmen* or by t-eir ,ontri4an,e*
4ol0ntary and 10rely mali,io0s* w-i,- most o2ten -a11en in
ill9re.0lated and ill9ed0,ated states* and may 1er-a1s o,,0r e4en in a
,o0ntry w-ere a man wo0ld not e:1e,t to 2ind t-em* we m0st re1eat on,e
more t-e tale w-i,- we narrated a little w-ile a.o* in t-e -o1e t-at
-e w-o -ears 0s will be t-e more dis1osed to abstain 4ol0ntarily on
t-ese .ro0nds 2rom m0rders w-i,- are 0tterly abominable/ "or t-e myt-*
or sayin.* or w-ate4er we o0.-t to ,all it* -as been 1lainly set 2ort-
by 1riests o2 old) t-ey -a4e 1rono0n,ed t-at t-e j0sti,e w-i,-
.0ards and a4en.es t-e blood o2 6indred* 2ollows t-e law o2
retaliation* and ordains t-at -e w-o -as done any m0rdero0s a,t s-o0ld
o2 ne,essity s022er t-at w-i,- -e -as done/ $e w-o -as slain a
2at-er s-all -imsel2 be slain at some time or ot-er by -is ,-ildren9i2
a mot-er* -e s-all o2 ne,essity ta6e a woman=s nat0re* and lose -is
li2e at t-e -ands o2 -is o22s1rin. in a2ter a.es) 2or w-ere t-e
blood o2 a 2amily -as been 1oll0ted t-ere is no ot-er 10ri2i,ation*
nor ,an t-e 1oll0tion be was-ed o0t 0ntil t-e -omi,idal so0l w-i,- t-e
deed -as .i4en li2e 2or li2e* and -as 1ro1itiated and laid to slee1
t-e wrat- o2 t-e w-ole 2amily/ #-ese are t-e retrib0tions o2 $ea4en*
and by s0,- 10nis-ments men s-o0ld be deterred/ B0t i2 t-ey are not
deterred* and any one s-o0ld be in,ited by some 2atality to de1ri4e
-is 2at-er or mot-er* or bret-ren* or ,-ildren* o2 li2e 4ol0ntarily
and o2 10r1ose* 2or -im t-e eart-ly law.i4er le.islates as
2ollows(9#-ere s-all be t-e same 1ro,lamations abo0t o0tlawry* and
t-ere s-all be t-e same s0reties w-i,- -a4e been ena,ted in t-e 2ormer
,ases/ B0t in -is ,ase* i2 -e be ,on4i,ted* t-e ser4ants o2 t-e j0d.es
and t-e ma.istrates s-all slay -im at an a11ointed 1la,e wit-o0t t-e
,ity w-ere t-ree ways meet* and t-ere e:1ose -is body na6ed* and
ea,- o2 t-e ma.istrates on be-al2 o2 t-e w-ole ,ity s-all ta6e a stone
and ,ast it 01on t-e -ead o2 t-e dead man* and so deli4er t-e ,ity
2rom 1oll0tion) a2ter t-at* t-ey s-all bear -im to t-e borders o2
t-e land* and ,ast -im 2ort- 0nb0ried* a,,ordin. to law/ And w-at
s-all -e s022er w-o slays -im w-o o2 all men* as t-ey say* is -is
own best 2riend3 I mean t-e s0i,ide* w-o de1ri4es -imsel2 by
4iolen,e o2 -is a11ointed s-are o2 li2e* not be,a0se t-e law o2 t-e
state re;0ires -im* nor yet 0nder t-e ,om10lsion o2 some 1ain20l and
ine4itable mis2ort0ne w-i,- -as ,ome 01on -im* nor be,a0se -e -as
-ad to s022er 2rom irremediable and intolerable s-ame* b0t w-o 2rom
slot- or want o2 manliness im1oses 01on -imsel2 an 0nj0st 1enalty/ "or
-im* w-at ,eremonies t-ere are to be o2 10ri2i,ation and b0rial &od
6nows* and abo0t t-ese t-e ne:t o2 6in s-o0ld en;0ire o2 t-e
inter1reters and o2 t-e laws t-ereto relatin.* and do a,,ordin. to
t-eir inj0n,tions/ #-ey w-o meet t-eir deat- in t-is way s-all be
b0ried alone* and none s-all be laid by t-eir side) t-ey s-all be
b0ried in.lorio0sly in t-e borders o2 t-e twel4e 1ortions t-e land* in
s0,- 1la,es as are 0n,0lti4ated and nameless* and no ,ol0mn or
ins,ri1tion s-all mar6 t-e 1la,e o2 t-eir interment/ And i2 a beast o2
b0rden or ot-er animal ,a0se t-e deat- o2 any one* e:,e1t in t-e
,ase o2 anyt-in. o2 t-at 6ind -a11enin. to a ,om1etitor in t-e
10bli, ,ontests* t-e 6insmen o2 t-e de,eased s-all 1rose,0te t-e
slayer 2or m0rder* and t-e wardens o2 t-e ,o0ntry* s0,-* and so many
as t-e 6insmen a11oint* s-all try t-e ,a0se* and let t-e beast w-en
,ondemned be slain by t-em* and let t-em ,ast it beyond t-e borders/
And i2 any li2eless t-in. de1ri4e a man o2 li2e* e:,e1t in t-e ,ase o2
a t-0nderbolt or ot-er 2atal dart sent 2rom t-e &ods9w-et-er a man
is 6illed by li2eless obje,ts* 2allin. 01on -im* or by -is 2allin.
01on t-em* t-e nearest o2 6in s-all a11oint t-e nearest nei.-bo0r to
be a j0d.e* and t-ereby a,;0it -imsel2 and t-e w-ole 2amily o2
.0ilt/ And -e s-all ,ast 2ort- t-e .0ilty t-in. beyond t-e border*
as -as been said abo0t t-e animals/
I2 a man is 2o0nd dead* and -is m0rderer be 0n6nown* and a2ter a
dili.ent sear,- ,annot be dete,ted* t-ere s-all be t-e same
1ro,lamation as in t-e 1re4io0s ,ases* and t-e same interdi,t on t-e
m0rderer) and -a4in. 1ro,eeded a.ainst -im* t-ey s-all 1ro,laim in t-e
a.ora by a -erald* t-at -e w-o -as slain s0,- and s0,- a 1erson* and
-as been ,on4i,ted o2 m0rder* s-all not set -is 2oot in t-e tem1les*
nor at all in t-e ,o0ntry o2 t-e m0rdered man* and i2 -e a11ears and
is dis,o4ered* -e s-all die* and be ,ast 2ort- 0nb0ried beyond t-e
border/ Let t-is one law t-en be laid down by 0s abo0t m0rder) and let
,ases o2 t-is sort be so re.arded/
And now let 0s say in w-at ,ases and 0nder w-at ,ir,0mstan,es t-e
m0rderer is ri.-tly 2ree 2rom .0ilt(9I2 a man ,at,- a t-ie2 ,omin.*
into -is -o0se by ni.-t to steal* and -e ta6e and 6ill -im* or i2 -e
slay a 2oot1ad in sel29de2en,e* -e s-all be .0iltless/ And any one w-o
does 4iolen,e to a 2ree woman or a yo0t-* s-all be slain wit- im10nity
by t-e inj0red 1erson* or by -is or -er 2at-er or brot-ers or sons/ I2
a man 2ind -is wi2e s022erin. 4iolen,e* -e may 6ill t-e 4iolator*
and be .0iltless in t-e eye o2 t-e law) or i2 a 1erson 6ill anot-er in
wardin. o22 deat- 2rom -is 2at-er or mot-er or ,-ildren or bret-ren or
wi2e w-o are doin. no wron.* -e s-all ass0redly be .0iltless/
#-0s m0,- as to t-e n0rt0re and ed0,ation o2 t-e li4in. so0l o2 man*
-a4in. w-i,-* -e ,an* and wit-o0t w-i,-* i2 -e 0n2ort0nately be
wit-o0t t-em* -e ,annot li4e) and also ,on,ernin. t-e
10nis-ments(9w-i,- are to be in2li,ted 2or 4iolent deat-s* let t-0s
m0,- be ena,ted/ O2 t-e n0rt0re and ed0,ation o2 t-e body we -a4e
s1o6en be2ore* and ne:t in order we -a4e to s1ea6 o2 deeds o2
4iolen,e* 4ol0ntary and in4ol0ntary* w-i,- men do to one anot-er)
t-ese we will now distin.0is-* as 2ar as we are able* a,,ordin. to
t-eir nat0re and n0mber* and determine w-at will be t-e s0itable
1enalties o2 ea,-* and so assi.n to t-em t-eir 1ro1er 1la,e in t-e
series o2 o0r ena,tments/ #-e 1oorest le.islator will -a4e no
di22i,0lty in determinin. t-at wo0nds and m0tilations arisin. o0t o2
wo0nds s-o0ld 2ollow ne:t in order a2ter deat-s/ Let wo0nds be di4ided
as -omi,ides were di4ided9into t-ose w-i,- are in4ol0ntary* and
w-i,- are .i4en in 1assion or 2rom 2ear* and t-ose in2li,ted
4ol0ntarily and wit- 1remeditation/ Con,ernin. all t-is* we m0st
ma6e some s0,- 1ro,lamation as t-e 2ollowin.(9+an6ind m0st -a4e
laws* and ,on2orm to t-em* or t-eir li2e wo0ld be as bad as t-at o2
t-e most sa4a.e beast/ And t-e reason o2 t-is is t-at no man=s
nat0re is able to 6now w-at is best 2or -0man so,iety) or 6nowin.*
always able and willin. to do w-at is best/ In t-e 2irst 1la,e*
t-ere is a di22i,0lty in a11re-endin. t-at t-e tr0e art or 1oliti,s is
,on,erned* not wit- 1ri4ate b0t wit- 10bli, .ood >2or 10bli, .ood
binds to.et-er states* b0t 1ri4ate only distra,ts t-em?) and t-at bot-
t-e 10bli, and 1ri4ate .ood as well o2 indi4id0als as o2 states is
.reater w-en t-e state and not t-e indi4id0al is 2irst ,onsidered/
In t-e se,ond 1la,e* alt-o0.- a 1erson 6nows in t-e abstra,t t-at t-is
is tr0e* yet i2 -e be 1ossessed o2 absol0te and irres1onsible 1ower*
-e will ne4er remain 2irm in -is 1rin,i1les or 1ersist in re.ardin.
t-e 10bli, .ood as 1rimary in t-e state* and t-e 1ri4ate .ood as
se,ondary/ $0man nat0re will be always drawin. -im into a4ari,e and
sel2is-ness* a4oidin. 1ain and 10rs0in. Pleas0re wit-o0t any reason*
and will brin. t-ese to t-e 2ront* obs,0rin. t-e j0ster and better)
and so wor6in. dar6ness in -is so0l will at last 2ill wit- e4ils
bot- -im and t-e w-ole ,ity/ "or i2 a man were born so di4inely .i2ted
t-at -e ,o0ld nat0rally a11re-end t-e tr0t-* -e wo0ld -a4e no need
o2 laws to r0le o4er -im) 2or t-ere is no law or order w-i,- is
abo4e 6nowled.e* nor ,an mind* wit-o0t im1iety* be deemed t-e
s0bje,t or sla4e o2 any man* b0t rat-er t-e lord o2 all/ I s1ea6 o2
mind* tr0e and 2ree* and in -armony wit- nat0re/ B0t t-en t-ere is
no s0,- mind anyw-ere* or at least not m0,-) and t-ere2ore we m0st
,-oose law and order* w-i,- are se,ond best/ #-ese loo6 at t-in.s as
t-ey e:ist 2or t-e most 1art only* and are 0nable to s0r4ey t-e
w-ole o2 t-em/ And t-ere2ore I -a4e s1o6en as I -a4e/
And now we will determine w-at 1enalty -e o0.-t to 1ay or s022er w-o
-as -0rt or wo0nded anot-er/ Any one may easily ima.ine t-e
;0estions w-i,- -a4e to be as6ed in all s0,- ,ases(9W-at did -e wo0nd*
or w-om* or -ow* or w-en3 2or t-ere are inn0merable 1arti,0lars o2
t-is sort w-i,- .reatly 4ary 2rom one anot-er/ And to allow ,o0rts
o2 law to determine all t-ese t-in.s* or not to determine any o2 t-em*
is ali6e im1ossible/ #-ere is one 1arti,0lar w-i,- t-ey m0st determine
in all ,ases9t-e ;0estion o2 2a,t/ And t-en* a.ain* t-at t-e
le.islator s-o0ld not 1ermit t-em to determine w-at 10nis-ment is to
be in2li,ted in any o2 t-ese ,ases* b0t s-o0ld -imsel2 de,ide abo0t*
o2 t-em* small or .reat* is ne:t to im1ossible/
Cle/ #-en w-at is to be t-e in2eren,e3
At-/ #-e in2eren,e is* t-at some t-in.s s-o0ld be le2t to ,o0rts
o2 law) ot-ers t-e le.islator m0st de,ide 2or -imsel2/
Cle/ And w-at o0.-t t-e le.islator to de,ide* and w-at o0.-t -e to
lea4e to ,o0rts o2 law3
At-/ I may re1ly* t-at in a state in w-i,- t-e ,o0rts are bad and
m0te* be,a0se t-e j0d.es ,on,eal t-eir o1inions and de,ide ,a0ses
,landestinely) or w-at is worse* w-en t-ey are disorderly and noisy*
as in a t-eatre* ,la11in. or -ootin. in t0rn t-is or t-at orator9I say
t-at t-en t-ere is a 4ery serio0s e4il* w-i,- a22e,ts t-e w-ole state/
'n2ort0nate is t-e ne,essity o2 -a4in. to le.islate 2or s0,- ,o0rts*
b0t w-ere t-e ne,essity e:ists* t-e le.islator s-o0ld only allow
t-em to ordain t-e 1enalties 2or t-e smallest o22en,es) i2 t-e state
2or w-i,- -e is le.islatin. be o2 t-is ,-ara,ter* -e m0st ta6e most
matters into -is own -ands and s1ea6 distin,tly/ B0t w-en a state
-as .ood ,o0rts* and t-e j0d.es are well trained and s,r010lo0sly
tested* t-e determination o2 t-e 1enalties or 10nis-ments w-i,-
s-all be in2li,ted on t-e .0ilty may 2airly and wit- ad4anta.e be le2t
to t-em/ And we are not to be blamed 2or not le.islatin. ,on,ernin.
all t-at lar.e ,lass o2 matters w-i,- j0d.es 2ar worse ed0,ated t-an
o0rs wo0ld be able to determine* assi.nin. to ea,- o22en,e w-at is d0e
bot- to t-e 1er1etrator and to t-e s022erer/ We belie4e t-ose 2or w-om
we are le.islatin. to be best able to j0d.e* and t-ere2ore to t-em t-e
.reater 1art may be le2t/ At t-e same time* as I -a4e o2ten said* we
s-o0ld e:-ibit to t-e j0d.es* as we -a4e done* t-e o0tline and 2orm o2
t-e 10nis-ments to be in2li,ted* and t-en t-ey will not trans.ress t-e
j0st r0le/ #-at was an e:,ellent 1ra,ti,e* w-i,- we obser4ed be2ore*
and w-i,- now t-at we are res0min. t-e wor6 o2 le.islation* may wit-
ad4anta.e be re1eated by 0s/
Let t-e ena,tment abo0t wo0ndin. be in t-e 2ollowin. terms(9I2
anyone -as a 10r1ose and intention to slay anot-er w-o is not -is
enemy* and w-om t-e law does not 1ermit -im to slay* and -e wo0nds
-im* b0t is 0nable to 6ill -im* -e w-o -ad t-e intent and -as
wo0nded -im is not to be 1itied9-e deser4es no ,onsideration* b0t
s-o0ld be re.arded as a m0rderer and be tried 2or m0rder/ Still -a4in.
res1e,t to t-e 2ort0ne w-i,- -as in a manner 2a4o0red -im* and to
t-e 1ro4iden,e w-i,- in 1ity to -im and to t-e wo0nded man sa4ed t-e
one 2rom a 2atal blow* and t-e ot-er 2rom an a,,0rsed 2ate and
,alamity9as a t-an69o22erin. to t-is deity* and in order not to o11ose
-is will9in s0,- a ,ase t-e law will remit t-e 10nis-ment o2 deat-*
and only ,om1el t-e o22ender to emi.rate to a nei.-bo0rin. ,ity 2or
t-e rest o2 -is li2e* w-ere -e s-all remain in t-e enjoyment o2 all
-is 1ossessions/ B0t i2 -e -a4e inj0red t-e wo0nded man* -e s-all ma6e
s0,- ,om1ensation 2or t-e inj0ry as t-e ,o0rt de,idin. t-e ,a0se s-all
assess* and t-e same j0d.es s-all de,ide w-o wo0ld -a4e de,ided i2 t-e
man -ad died o2 -is wo0nds/ And i2 a ,-ild intentionally wo0nd -is
1arents* or a ser4ant -is master* deat- s-all be t-e 1enalty/ And i2 a
brot-er ora sister intentionally wo0nd a brot-er or a sister* and is
2o0nd .0ilty* deat- s-all be t-e 1enalty/ And i2 a -0sband wo0nd a
wi2e* or a wi2e a -0sband* wit- intent to 6ill* let -im or -er 0nder.o
1er1et0al e:ile) i2 t-ey -a4e sons or da0.-ters w-o are still yo0n.*
t-e .0ardians s-all ta6e ,are o2 t-eir 1ro1erty* and -a4e ,-ar.e o2
t-e ,-ildren as or1-ans/ I2 t-eir sons are .rown 01* t-ey s-all be
0nder no obli.ation to s011ort t-e e:iled 1arent* b0t t-ey s-all
1ossess t-e 1ro1erty t-emsel4es/ And i2 -e w-o meets wit- s0,- a
mis2ort0ne -as no ,-ildren* t-e 6indred o2 t-e e:iled man to t-e
de.ree o2 sons o2 ,o0sins* bot- on t-e male and 2emale side* s-all
meet to.et-er* and a2ter ta6in. ,o0nsel wit- t-e .0ardians o2 t-e
and t-e 1riests* s-all a11oint a F0G0t- ,iti<en to be t-e -eir o2
t-e -o0se* ,onsiderin. and reasonin. t-at no -o0se o2 all t-e F0G0
belon.s to t-e in-abitant or to t-e w-ole 2amily* b0t is t-e 10bli,
and 1ri4ate 1ro1erty o2 t-e state/ !ow t-e state s-o0ld see6 to -a4e
its -o0ses as -oly and -a11y as 1ossible/ And i2 any one o2 t-e -o0ses
be 0n2ort0nate* and stained wit- im1iety* and t-e owner lea4e no
1osterity* b0t dies 0nmarried* or married and ,-ildless* -a4in.
s022ered deat- as t-e 1enalty o2 m0rder or some ot-er ,rime
,ommitted a.ainst t-e &ods or a.ainst -is 2ellow9,iti<ens* o2 w-i,-
deat- is t-e 1enalty distin,tly laid down in t-e law) or i2 any o2 t-e
,iti<ens be in 1er1et0al e:ile* and also ,-ildless* t-at -o0se s-all
2irst o2 all be 10ri2ied and 0nder.o e:1iation a,,ordin. to law) and
t-en let t-e 6insmen o2 t-e -o0se* as we were j0st now sayin.* and t-e
.0ardians o2 t-e law* meet and ,onsider w-at 2amily t-ere is in t-e
state w-i,- is o2 t-e -i.-est re10te 2or 4irt0e and also 2or .ood
2ort0ne* in w-i,- t-ere are a n0mber o2 sons) 2rom t-at 2amily let
t-em ta6e one and introd0,e -im to t-e 2at-er and 2ore2at-ers o2 t-e
dead man as t-eir son* and* 2or t-e sa6e o2 t-e omen* let -im be
,alled so* t-at -e may be t-e ,ontin0er o2 t-eir 2amily* t-e 6ee1er o2
t-eir -eart-* and t-e minister o2 t-eir sa,red rites wit- better
2ort0ne t-an -is 2at-er -ad) and w-en t-ey -a4e made t-is
s011li,ation* t-ey s-all ma6e -im -eir a,,ordin. to law* and t-e
o22endin. 1erson t-ey s-all lea4e nameless and ,-ildless and
1ortionless w-en ,alamities s0,- as t-ese o4erta6e -im/
!ow t-e bo0ndaries o2 some t-in.s do not to0,- one anot-er* b0t
t-ere is a borderland w-i,- ,omes in between* 1re4entin. t-em 2rom
to0,-in./ And we were sayin. t-at a,tions done 2rom 1assion are o2
t-is nat0re* and ,ome in between t-e 4ol0ntary and in4ol0ntary/ I2 a
1erson be ,on4i,ted o2 -a4in. in2li,ted wo0nds in a 1assion* in t-e
2irst 1la,e -e s-all 1ay twi,e t-e amo0nt o2 t-e inj0ry* i2 t-e
wo0nd be ,0rable* or* i2 in,0rable* 2o0r times t-e amo0nt o2 t-e
inj0ry) or i2 t-e wo0nd be ,0rable* and at t-e same time ,a0se .reat
and notable dis.ra,e to t-e wo0nded 1erson* -e s-all 1ay 2o0r2old/ And
w-ene4er any one in wo0ndin. anot-er inj0res not only t-e s022erer*
b0t also t-e ,ity* and ma6es -im in,a1able o2 de2endin. -is ,o0ntry
a.ainst t-e enemy* -e* besides t-e ot-er 1enalties* s-all 1ay a
1enalty 2or t-e loss w-i,- t-e state -as in,0rred/ And t-e 1enalty
s-all be* t-at in addition to -is own times o2 ser4i,e* -e s-all ser4e
on be-al2 o2 t-e disabled 1erson* and s-all ta6e -is 1la,e in war) or*
i2 -e re20se* -e s-all be liable to be ,on4i,ted by law o2 re20sal
to ser4e/ #-e ,om1ensation 2or t-e inj0ry* w-et-er to be two2old or
t-ree2old or 2o0r2old* s-all be 2i:ed by t-e j0d.es w-o ,on4i,t -im/
And i2* in li6e manner* a brot-er wo0nds a brot-er* t-e 1arents and
6indred o2 eit-er se:* in,l0din. t-e ,-ildren o2 ,o0sins* w-et-er on
t-e male or 2emale side* s-all meet* and w-en t-ey -a4e j0d.ed t-e
,a0se* t-ey s-all entr0st t-e assessment o2 dama.es to t-e 1arents* as
is nat0ral) and i2 t-e estimate be dis10ted* t-en t-e 6insmen on t-e
male side s-all ma6e t-e estimate* or i2 t-ey ,annot* t-ey s-all
,ommit t-e matter to t-e .0ardians o2 t-e law/ And w-en similar
,-ar.es o2 wo0ndin. are bro0.-t by ,-ildren a.ainst t-eir 1arents*
t-ose w-o are more t-an si:ty years o2 a.e* -a4in. ,-ildren o2 t-eir
own* not ado1ted* s-all be re;0ired to de,ide) and i2 any one is
,on4i,ted* t-ey s-all determine w-et-er -e or s-e o0.-t to die* or
s022er some ot-er 10nis-ment eit-er .reater t-an deat-* or* at any
rate* not m0,- less/ A 6insman o2 t-e o22ender s-all not be allowed to
j0d.e t-e ,a0se* not e4en i2 -e be o2 t-e a.e w-i,- is 1res,ribed by
t-e law/ I2 a sla4e in a 2it o2 an.er wo0nd a 2reeman* t-e owner o2
t-e sla4e s-all .i4e -im 01 to t-e wo0nded man* w-o may do as -e
1leases wit- -im* and i2 be not .i4e -im 01 -e s-all -imsel2 ma6e .ood
t-e inj0ry/ And i2 any one says t-at t-e sla4e and t-e wo0nded man are
,ons1irin. to.et-er* let -im ar.0e t-e 1oint* and i2 -e is ,ast* -e
s-all 1ay 2or t-e wron. t-ree times o4er* b0t i2 -e .ains -is ,ase*
t-e 2reeman w-o ,ons1ired wit- t-e sla4e s-all reliable to an a,tion
2or 6idna11in./ And i2 any one 0nintentionally wo0nds anot-er -e s-all
sim1ly 1ay 2or t-e -arm* 2or no le.islator is able to ,ontrol
,-an,e/ In s0,- a ,ase t-e j0d.es s-all be t-e same as t-ose w-o are
a11ointed in t-e ,ase o2 ,-ildren s0in. t-eir 1arents) and t-ey
s-all estimate t-e amo0nt o2 t-e inj0ry/
All t-e 1re,edin. inj0ries and e4ery 6ind o2 assa0lt are deeds o2
4iolen,e) and e4ery man* woman* or ,-ild o0.-t to ,onsider t-at t-e
elder -as t-e 1re,eden,e o2 t-e yo0n.er in -ono0r* bot- amon. t-e &ods
and also amon. men w-o wo0ld li4e in se,0rity and -a11iness/ W-ere2ore
it is a 2o0l t-in. and -ate20l to t-e &ods to see an elder man
assa0lted by a yo0n.er in t-e ,ity) and it is reasonable t-at a
yo0n. man w-en str0,6 by an elder s-o0ld li.-tly end0re -is an.er*
layin. 01 in store 2or -imsel2 a li6e -ono0r w-en -e is old/ Let
t-is be t-e law(9E4ery one s-all re4eren,e -is elder in word and deed)
-e s-all res1e,t any one w-o is twenty years older t-an -imsel2*
w-et-er male or 2emale* re.ardin. -im or -er as -is 2at-er or
mot-er) and -e s-all abstain 2rom layin. -ands on any one w-o is o2 an
a.e to -a4e been -is 2at-er or -is mot-er* o0t o2 re4eren,e to t-e
&ods w-o 1reside o4er birt-) similarly -e s-all 6ee1 -is -ands 2rom
a stran.er* w-et-er -e be an old in-abitant or newly arri4ed) -e s-all
not 4ent0re to ,orre,t s0,- an one by blows* eit-er as t-e a..ressor
or in sel29de2en,e/ I2 -e t-in6s t-at some stran.er -as str0,6 -im o0t
o2 wantonness or insolen,e* and o0.-t to be 10nis-ed* -e s-all ta6e
-im to t-e wardens o2 t-e ,ity* b0t let -im not stri6e -im* t-at t-e
stran.er may be 6e1t 2ar away 2rom t-e 1ossibility o2 li2tin. 01 -is
-and a.ainst a ,iti<en* and let t-e wardens o2 t-e ,ity ta6e t-e
o22ender and e:amine -im* not 2or.ettin. t-eir d0ty to t-e &od o2
Stran.ers* and in ,ase t-e stran.er a11ears to -a4e str0,6 t-e ,iti<en
0nj0stly* let t-em in2li,t 01on -im as many blows wit- t-e s,o0r.e
as -e -as -imsel2 in2li,ted* and ;0ell -is 1res0m1tion/ B0t i2 -e be
inno,ent* t-ey s-all t-reaten and reb06e t-e man w-o arrested -im* and
let t-em bot- .o/ I2 a 1erson stri6es anot-er o2 t-e same a.e or
somew-at older t-an -imsel2* w-o -as no ,-ildren* w-et-er -e be an old
man w-o stri6es an old man or a yo0n. man w-o stri6es a yo0n. man* let
t-e 1erson str0,6 de2end -imsel2 in t-e nat0ral way wit-o0t a wea1on
and wit- -is -ands only/ $e w-o* bein. more t-an 2orty years o2 a.e*
dares to 2i.-t wit- anot-er* w-et-er -e be t-e a..ressor or in sel2
de2en,e* s-all be re.arded as r0de and ill9mannered and
sla4is-)9t-is will be a dis.ra,e20l 10nis-ment* and t-ere2ore s0itable
to -im/ #-e obedient nat0re will readily yield to s0,- e:-ortations*
b0t t-e disobedient* w-o -eeds not t-e 1rel0de* s-all -a4e t-e law
ready 2or -im(9I2 any man smite anot-er w-o is older t-an -imsel2*
eit-er by twenty or by more years* in t-e 2irst 1la,e* -e w-o is at
-and* not bein. yo0n.er t-an t-e ,ombatants* nor t-eir e;0al in a.e*
s-all se1arate t-em* or be dis.ra,ed a,,ordin. to law) b0t i2 -e be
t-e e;0al in a.e o2 t-e 1erson w-o is str0,6 or yo0n.er* -e s-all
de2end t-e 1erson inj0red as -e wo0ld a brot-er or 2at-er or still
older relati4e/ "0rt-er* let -im w-o dares to smite an elder be
tried 2or assa0lt* as I -a4e said* and i2 -e be 2o0nd .0ilty* let
-im be im1risoned 2or a 1eriod o2 not less t-an a year* or i2 t-e
j0d.es a11ro4e o2 a lon.er 1eriod* t-eir de,ision s-all be 2inal/
B0t i2 a stran.er or meti, smite one w-o is older by twenty years or
more* t-e same law s-all -old abo0t t-e bystanders assistin.* and -e
w-o is 2o0nd .0ilty in s0,- a s0it* i2 -e be a stran.er b0t not
resident* s-all be im1risoned d0rin. a 1eriod o2 two years) and a
meti, w-o disobeys t-e laws s-all be im1risoned 2or t-ree years*
0nless t-e ,o0rt assi.n -im a lon.er term/ And let -im w-o was 1resent
in any o2 t-ese ,ases and did not assist a,,ordin. to law be 10nis-ed*
i2 -e be o2 t-e -i.-est dass* by 1ayin. a 2ine o2 a mina) or i2 -e
be o2 t-e se,ond ,lass* o2 2i2ty dra,-mas) or i2 o2 t-e t-ird ,lass*
by a 2ine o2 t-irty dra,-mas) or i2 -e be o2 t-e 2o0rt- ,lass* by a
2ine o2 twenty dra,-mas) and t-e .enerals and ta:iar,-s and
1-ylar,-s and -i11ar,-s s-all 2orm t-e ,o0rt in s0,- ,ases/
Laws are 1artly 2ramed 2or t-e sa6e o2 .ood men* in order to
instr0,t t-em -ow t-ey t-ay li4e on 2riendly terms wit- one anot-er*
and 1artly 2or t-e sa6e o2 t-ose w-o re20se to be instr0,ted* w-ose
s1irit ,annot be s0bd0ed* or so2tened* or -indered 2rom 1l0n.in.
into e4il/ #-ese are t-e 1ersons w-o ,a0se t-e word to be s1o6en w-i,-
I am abo0t to 0tter) 2or t-em t-e le.islator le.islates o2
ne,essity* and in t-e -o1e t-at t-ere may be no need o2 -is laws/ $e
w-o s-all dare to lay 4iolent -ands 01on -is 2at-er or mot-er* or
any still older relati4e* -a4in. no 2ear eit-er o2 t-e wrat- o2 t-e
&ods abo4e* or o2 t-e 10nis-ments t-at are s1o6en o2 in t-e world
below* b0t trans.resses in ,ontem1t o2 an,ient and 0ni4ersal
traditions as t-o0.- -e were too wise to belie4e in t-em* re;0ires
some e:treme meas0re o2 1re4ention/ !ow deat- is not t-e worst t-at
,an -a11en to men) 2ar worse are t-e 10nis-ments w-i,- are said to
10rs0e t-em in t-e world below/ B0t alt-o0.- t-ey are most tr0e tales*
t-ey wor6 on s0,- so0ls no 1re4ention) 2or i2 t-ey -ad any e22e,t
t-ere wo0ld be no slayers o2 mot-ers* or im1io0s -ands li2ted 01
a.ainst 1arents) and t-ere2ore t-e 10nis-ments o2 t-is world w-i,- are
in2li,ted d0rin. li2e o0.-t not in s0,- ,ases to 2all s-ort* i2
1ossible* o2 t-e terrors o2 t-e world below/ Let o0r ena,tment t-en be
as 2ollows(9I2 a man dare to stri6e -is 2at-er or -is mot-er* or t-eir
2at-ers or mot-ers* -e bein. at t-e time o2 so0nd mind* t-en let any
one w-o is at -and ,ome to t-e res,0e as -as been already said* and
t-e meti, or stran.er w-o ,omes to t-e res,0e s-all be ,alled to t-e
2irst 1la,e in t-e .ames) b0t i2 -e do not ,ome -e s-all s022er t-e
10nis-ment o2 1er1et0al e:ile/ $e w-o is not a meti,* i2 -e ,omes to
t-e res,0e* s-all -a4e 1raise* and i2 -e do not ,ome* blame/ And i2
a sla4e ,ome to t-e res,0e* let -im be made 2ree* b0t i2 -e do not
,ome t-e res,0e* let -im re,ei4e H00 stro6es o2 t-e w-i1* by order
o2 t-e wardens o2 t-e a.ora* i2 t-e o,,0rren,e ta6e 1la,e in t-e
a.ora) or i2 somew-ere in t-e ,ity beyond t-e limits o2 t-e a.ora* any
warden o2 t-e ,ity is in residen,e s-all 10nis- -im) or i2 in t-e
,o0ntry* t-en t-e ,ommanders o2 t-e wardens o2 t-e ,o0ntry/ I2 t-ose
w-o are near at t-e time be in-abitants o2 t-e same 1la,e* w-et-er
t-ey be yo0t-s* or men* or women* let t-em ,ome to t-e res,0e and
deno0n,e -im as t-e im1io0s one) and -e w-o does not ,ome to t-e
res,0e s-all 2all 0nder t-e ,0rse o2 5e0s* t-e &od o2 6indred and o2
an,estors* a,,ordin. to law/ And i2 any one is 2o0nd .0ilty o2
assa0ltin. a 1arent* let -im in t-e 2irst 1la,e be 2or e4er banis-ed
2rom t-e ,ity into t-e ,o0ntry* and let -im abstain 2rom t-e
tem1les) and i2 -e do not abstain* t-e wardens o2 t-e ,o0ntry s-all
10nis- -im wit- blows* or in any way w-i,- t-ey 1lease* and i2 -e
ret0rn -e s-all be 10t to deat-/ And i2 any 2reeman eat or drin6* or
-a4e any ot-er sort o2 inter,o0rse wit- -im* or only meetin. -im
-a4e 4ol0ntarily to0,-ed -im* -e s-all not enter into any tem1le*
nor into t-e a.ora* nor into t-e ,ity* 0ntil -e is 10ri2ied) 2or -e
s-o0ld ,onsider t-at -e -as be,ome tainted by a ,0rse/ And i2 -e
disobeys t-e law* and 1oll0tes t-e ,ity and t-e tem1les ,ontrary to
law* and one o2 t-e ma.istrates sees -im and does not indi,t -im* w-en
-e .i4es in -is a,,o0nt t-is omission s-all be a most serio0s ,-ar.e/
I2 a sla4e stri6e a 2reeman* w-et-er a stran.er or a ,iti<en* let
any one w-o is 1resent ,ome to t-e res,0e* or 1ay t-e 1enalty
already mentioned) and let t-e bystanders bind -im* and deli4er -im 01
to t-e inj0red 1erson* and -e re,ei4in. -im s-all 10t -im in ,-ains*
and in2li,t on -im as many stri1es as -e 1leases) b0t -a4in.
10nis-ed -im -e m0st s0rrender -im to -is master a,,ordin. to law* and
not de1ri4e -im o2 -is 1ro1erty/ Let t-e law be as 2ollows(9#-e
sla4e w-o stri6es a 2reeman* not at t-e ,ommand o2 t-e ma.istrates*
-is owner s-all re,ei4e bo0nd 2rom t-e man w-om -e -as stri,6en* and
not release -im 0ntil t-e sla4e -as 1ers0aded t-e man w-om -e -as
stri,6en t-at -e o0.-t to be released/ And let t-ere be t-e same
laws abo0t women in relation to women* abo0t men and women in relation
to one anot-er/
BOOK E
And now -a4in. s1o6en o2 assa0lts* let 0s s0m 01 all a,ts o2
4iolen,e 0nder a sin.le law* w-i,- s-all be as 2ollows(9!o one s-all
ta6e or ,arry away any o2 -is nei.-bo0r=s .oods* neit-er s-all -e
0se anyt-in. w-i,- is -is nei.-bo0r=s wit-o0t t-e ,onsent o2 t-e
owner) 2or t-ese are t-e o22en,es w-i,- are and -a4e been* and will
e4er be* t-e so0r,e o2 all t-e a2oresaid e4ils/ #-e .reatest o2 t-em
are e:,esses and insolen,es o2 yo0t-* and are o22en,es a.ainst t-e
.reatest w-en t-ey are done a.ainst reli.ion) and es1e,ially .reat
w-en in 4iolation o2 10bli, and -oly rites* or o2 t-e 1artly9,ommon
rites in w-i,- tribes and 1-ratries s-are) and in t-e se,ond de.ree
.reat w-en t-ey are ,ommitted a.ainst 1ri4ate rites and se10l,-res*
and in t-e t-ird de.ree >not to re1eat t-e a,ts 2ormerly mentioned?*
w-en ins0lts are o22ered to 1arents) t-e 2o0rt- 6ind o2 4iolen,e is
w-en any one* re.ardless o2 t-e a0t-ority o2 t-e r0lers* ta6es or
,arries away or ma6es 0se o2 anyt-in. w-i,- belon.s to t-em* not
-a4in. t-eir ,onsent) and t-e 2i2t- 6ind is w-en t-e 4iolation o2
t-e ,i4il ri.-ts o2 an indi4id0al demands re1aration/ #-ere s-o0ld
be a ,ommon law embra,in. all t-ese ,ases/ "or we -a4e already said in
.eneral terms w-at s-all be t-e 10nis-ment o2 sa,rile.e* w-et-er
2ra0d0lent or 4iolent* and now we -a4e to determine w-at is to be
t-e 10nis-ment o2 t-ose w-o s1ea6 or a,t insolently toward t-e &ods/
B0t 2irst we m0st .i4e t-em an admonition w-i,- may be in t-e
2ollowin. terms(9!o one w-o in obedien,e to t-e laws belie4ed t-at
t-ere were &ods* e4er intentionally did any 0n-oly a,t* or 0ttered any
0nlaw20l word) b0t -e w-o did m0st -a4e s011osed one o2 t-ree
t-in.s9eit-er t-at t-ey did not e:ist*9w-i,- is t-e 2irst 1ossibility*
or se,ondly* t-at* i2 t-ey did* t-ey too6 no ,are o2 man* or
t-irdly* t-at t-ey were easily a11eased and t0rned aside 2rom t-eir
10r1ose* by sa,ri2i,es and 1rayers/
Cleinias/ W-at s-all we say or do to t-ese 1ersons3
At-enian Stran.er/ +y .ood 2riend* let 0s 2irst -ear t-e jests w-i,-
I s0s1e,t t-at t-ey in t-eir s01eriority will 0tter a.ainst 0s/
Cle/ W-at jests3
At-/ #-ey will ma6e some irre4erent s1ee,- o2 t-is sort(9AO
in-abitants o2 At-ens* and S1arta* and Cnos0s*A t-ey will re1ly* Ain
t-at yo0 s1ea6 tr0ly) 2or some o2 0s deny t-e 4ery e:isten,e o2 t-e
&ods* w-ile ot-ers* as yo0 say* are o2 o1inion t-at t-ey do not ,are
abo0t 0s) and ot-ers t-at t-ey are t0rned 2rom t-eir ,o0rse by
.i2ts/ !ow we -a4e a ri.-t to ,laim* as yo0 yo0rsel2 allowed* in t-e
matter o2 laws* t-at be2ore yo0 are -ard 01on 0s and t-reaten 0s*
yo0 s-o0ld ar.0e wit- 0s and ,on4in,e 0s9yo0 s-o0ld 2irst attem1t to
tea,- and 1ers0ade 0s t-at t-ere are &ods by reasonable e4iden,es* and
also t-at t-ey are too .ood to be 0nri.-teo0s* or to be 1ro1itiated*
or t0rned 2rom t-eir ,o0rse by .i2ts/ "or w-en we -ear s0,- t-in.s
said o2 t-em by t-ose w-o are esteemed to be t-e best o2 1oets* and
orators* and 1ro1-ets* and 1riests* and by inn0merable ot-ers* t-e
t-o0.-ts o2 most o2 0s are not set 01on abstainin. 2rom 0nri.-teo0s
a,ts* b0t 01on doin. t-em and atonin. 2or t-em/ W-en law.i4ers 1ro2ess
t-at t-ey are .entle and not stern* we t-in6 t-at t-ey s-o0ld 2irst o2
all 0se 1ers0asion to 0s* and s-ow 0s t-e e:isten,e o2 &ods* i2 not in
a better manner t-an ot-er men* at any rate in a tr0er) and w-o
6nows b0t t-at we s-all -ear6en to yo03 I2 t-en o0r re;0est is a
2air one* 1lease to a,,e1t o0r ,-allen.e/A
Cle/ B0t is t-ere any di22i,0lty in 1ro4in. t-e e:isten,e o2 t-e
&ods3
At-/ $ow wo0ld yo0 1ro4e it3
Cle/ $ow3 In t-e 2irst 1la,e* t-e eart- and t-e s0n* and t-e stars
and t-e 0ni4erse* and t-e 2air order o2 t-e seasons* and t-e
di4ision o2 t-em into years and mont-s* 20rnis- 1roo2s o2 t-eir
e:isten,e) and also t-ere is t-e 2a,t t-at all $ellenes and barbarians
belie4e in t-em/
At-/ I 2ear* my sweet 2riend* t-o0.- I will not say t-at I m0,-
re.ard* t-e ,ontem1t wit- w-i,- t-e 1ro2ane will be li6ely to assail
0s/ "or yo0 do not 0nderstand t-e nat0re o2 t-eir ,om1laint* and yo0
2an,y t-at t-ey r0s- into im1iety only 2rom a lo4e o2 sens0al
1leas0re/
Cle/ W-y* Stran.er* w-at ot-er reason is t-ere3
At-/ One w-i,- yo0 w-o li4e in a di22erent atmos1-ere wo0ld ne4er
.0ess/
Cle/ W-at is it3
At-/ A 4ery .rie4o0s sort o2 i.noran,e w-i,- is ima.ined to be t-e
.reatest wisdom/
Cle/ W-at do yo0 mean3
At-/ At At-ens t-ere are tales 1reser4ed in writin. w-i,- t-e 4irt0e
o2 yo0r state* as I am in2ormed* re20ses to admit/ #-ey s1ea6 o2 t-e
&ods in 1rose as well as 4erse* and t-e oldest o2 t-em tell o2 t-e
ori.in o2 t-e -ea4ens and o2 t-e world* and not 2ar 2rom t-e be.innin.
o2 t-eir story t-ey 1ro,eed to narrate t-e birt- o2 t-e &ods* and
-ow a2ter t-ey were born t-ey be-a4ed to one anot-er/ W-et-er t-ese
stories -a4e in ot-er ways a .ood or a bad in2l0en,e* I s-o0ld not
li6e to be se4ere 01on t-em* be,a0se t-ey are an,ient) b0t* loo6in. at
t-em wit- re2eren,e to t-e d0ties o2 ,-ildren to t-eir 1arents* I
,annot 1raise t-em* or t-in6 t-at t-ey are 0se20l* or at all tr0e/
O2 t-e words o2 t-e an,ients I -a4e not-in. more to say) and I
s-o0ld wis- to say o2 t-em only w-at is 1leasin. to t-e &ods/ B0t as
to o0r yo0n.er .eneration and t-eir wisdom* I ,annot let t-em o22 w-en
t-ey do mis,-ie2/ "or do b0t mar6 t-e e22e,t o2 t-eir words( w-en
yo0 and I ar.0e 2or t-e e:isten,e o2 t-e &ods* and 1rod0,e t-e s0n*
moon* stars* and eart-* ,laimin. 2or t-em a di4ine bein.* i2 we
wo0ld listen to t-e a2oresaid 1-iloso1-ers we s-o0ld say t-at t-ey are
eart- and stones only* w-i,- ,an -a4e no ,are at all o2 -0man a22airs*
and t-at all reli.ion is a ,oo6in. 01 o2 words and a ma6e9belie4e/
Cle/ One s0,- tea,-er* O Stran.er* wo0ld be bad eno0.-* and yo0
im1ly t-at t-ere are many o2 t-em* w-i,- is worse/
At-/ Well* t-en) w-at s-all we say or do39S-all we ass0me t-at
some one is a,,0sin. 0s amon. 0n-oly men* w-o are tryin. to es,a1e
2rom t-e e22e,t o2 o0r le.islation) and t-at t-ey say o2 0s9$ow
dread20l t-at yo0 s-o0ld le.islate on t-e s011osition t-at t-ere are
&odsD S-all we ma6e a de2en,e o2 o0rsel4es3 or s-all we lea4e t-em and
ret0rn to o0r laws* lest t-e 1rel0de s-o0ld be,ome lon.er t-an t-e
law3 "or t-e dis,o0rse will ,ertainly e:tend to .reat len.t-* i2 we
are to treat t-e im1io0sly dis1osed as t-ey desire* 1artly
demonstratin. to t-em at some len.t- t-e t-in.s o2 w-i,- t-ey demand
an e:1lanation* 1artly ma6in. t-em a2raid or dissatis2ied* and t-en
1ro,eed to t-e re;0isite ena,tments/
Cle/ 7es* Stran.er) b0t t-en -ow o2ten -a4e we re1eated already t-at
on t-e 1resent o,,asion t-ere is no reason w-y bre4ity s-o0ld be
1re2erred to len.t-) w-o is Aat o0r -eelsA39as t-e sayin. .oes* and it
wo0ld be 1altry and ridi,0lo0s to 1re2er t-e s-orter to t-e better/ It
is a matter o2 no small ,onse;0en,e* in some way or ot-er to 1ro4e
t-at t-ere are &ods* and t-at t-ey are .ood* and re.ard j0sti,e more
t-an men do/ #-e demonstration o2 t-is wo0ld be t-e best and noblest
1rel0de o2 all o0r laws/ And t-ere2ore* wit-o0t im1atien,e* and
wit-o0t -0rry* let 0s 0nreser4edly ,onsider t-e w-ole matter*
s0mmonin. 01 all t-e 1ower o2 1ers0asion w-i,- we 1ossess/
At-/ Seein. yo0 t-0s in earnest* I wo0ld 2ain o22er 01 a 1rayer t-at
I may s0,,eed(9b0t I m0st 1ro,eed at on,e/ W-o ,an be ,alm w-en -e
is ,alled 01on to 1ro4e t-e e:isten,e o2 t-e &ods3 W-o ,an a4oid
-atin. and ab-orrin. t-e men w-o are and -a4e been t-e ,a0se o2 t-is
ar.0ment) I s1ea6 o2 t-ose w-o will not belie4e t-e tales w-i,- t-ey
-a4e -eard as babes and s0,6lin.s 2rom t-eir mot-ers and n0rses*
re1eated by t-em bot- in jest and earnest* li6e ,-arms* w-o -a4e
also -eard t-em in t-e sa,ri2i,ial 1rayers* and seen si.-ts
a,,om1anyin. t-em9si.-ts and so0nds deli.-t20l to ,-ildren9and t-eir
1arents d0rin. t-e sa,ri2i,es s-owin. an intense earnestness on be-al2
o2 t-eir ,-ildren and o2 t-emsel4es* and wit- ea.er interest tal6in.
to t-e &ods* and besee,-in. t-em* as t-o0.- t-ey were 2irmly ,on4in,ed
o2 t-eir e:isten,e) w-o li6ewise see and -ear t-e 1rostrations and
in4o,ations w-i,- are made by $ellenes and barbarians at t-e risin.
and settin. o2 t-e s0n and moon* in all t-e 4i,issit0des o2 li2e*
not as i2 t-ey t-o0.-t t-at t-ere were no &ods* b0t as i2 t-ere
,o0ld be no do0bt o2 t-eir e:isten,e* and no s0s1i,ion o2 t-eir
non9e:isten,e) w-en men* 6nowin. all t-ese t-in.s* des1ise t-em on
no real .ro0nds* as wo0ld be admitted by all w-o -a4e any 1arti,le
o2 intelli.en,e* and w-en t-ey 2or,e 0s to say w-at we are now sayin.*
-ow ,an any one in .entle terms remonstrate wit- t-e li6e o2 t-em*
w-en -e -as to be.in by 1ro4in. to t-em t-e 4ery e:isten,e o2 t-e
&ods3 7et t-e attem1t m0st be made) 2or it wo0ld be 0nseemly t-at
one -al2 o2 man6ind s-o0ld .o mad in t-eir l0st o2 1leas0re* and t-e
ot-er -al2 in t-eir indi.nation at s0,- 1ersons/ O0r address to
t-ese lost and 1er4erted nat0res s-o0ld not be s1o6en in 1assion)
let 0s s011ose o0rsel4es to sele,t some one o2 t-em* and .ently reason
wit- -im* smot-erin. o0r an.er(9O my son* we will say to -im* yo0
are yo0n.* and t-e ad4an,e o2 time will ma6e yo0 re4erse may o2 t-e
o1inions w-i,- yo0 now -old/ Wait aw-ile* and do not attem1t to
j0d.e at 1resent o2 t-e -i.-est t-in.s) and t-at is t-e -i.-est o2
w-i,- yo0 now t-in6 not-in.9to 6now t-e &ods ri.-tly and to li4e
a,,ordin.ly/ And in t-e 2irst 1la,e let me indi,ate to yo0 one 1oint
w-i,- is o2 .reat im1ortan,e* and abo0t w-i,- I ,annot be
de,ei4ed(97o0 and yo0r 2riends are not t-e 2irst w-o -a4e -eld t-is
o1inion abo0t t-e &ods/ #-ere -a4e always been 1ersons more or less
n0mero0s w-o -a4e -ad t-e same disorder/ I -a4e 6nown many o2 t-em*
and ,an tell yo0* t-at no one w-o -ad ta6en 01 in yo0t- t-is
o1inion* t-at t-e &ods do not e:ist* e4er ,ontin0ed in t-e same
0ntil -e was old) t-e two ot-er notions ,ertainly do ,ontin0e in
some ,ases* b0t not in many) t-e notion* I mean* t-at t-e &ods
e:ist* b0t ta6e no -eed o2 -0man t-in.s* and t-e ot-er notion t-at
t-ey do ta6e -eed o2 t-em* b0t are easily 1ro1itiated wit-
sa,ri2i,es and 1rayers/ As to t-e o1inion abo0t t-e &ods w-i,- may
some day be,ome ,lear to yo0* I ad4ise yo0 .o wait and ,onsider i2
it be tr0e or not) as6 o2 ot-ers* and abo4e all o2 t-e le.islator/
In t-e meantime ta6e ,are t-at yo0 do not o22end a.ainst t-e &ods/ "or
t-e d0ty o2 t-e le.islator is and always will be to tea,- yo0 t-e
tr0t- o2 t-ese matters/
Cle/ O0r address* Stran.er* t-0s 2ar* is e:,ellent/
At-/ @0ite tr0e* +e.ill0s and Cleinias* b0t I am a2raid t-at we -a4e
0n,ons,io0sly li.-ted on a stran.e do,trine/
Cle/ W-at do,trine do yo0 mean3
At-/ #-e wisest o2 all do,trines* in t-e o1inion o2 many/
Cle/ I wis- t-at yo0 wo0ld s1ea6 1lainer/
At-/ #-e do,trine t-at all t-in.s do be,ome* -a4e be,ome* and will
be,ome* some by nat0re* some by art* and some by ,-an,e/
Cle/ Is not t-at tr0e3
At-/ Well* 1-iloso1-ers are 1robably ri.-t) at any rate we may as
well 2ollow in t-eir tra,6* and e:amine w-at is t-e meanin. o2 t-em
and t-eir dis,i1les/
Cle/ By all means/
At-/ #-ey say t-at t-e .reatest and 2airest t-in.s are t-e wor6 o2
nat0re and o2 ,-an,e* t-e lesser o2 art* w-i,-* re,ei4in. 2rom
nat0re t-e .reater and 1rime4al ,reations* mo0lds and 2as-ions all
t-ose lesser wor6s w-i,- are .enerally termed arti2i,ial/
Cle/ $ow is t-at3
At-/ I will e:1lain my meanin. still more ,learly/ #-ey say t-at
2ire and water* and eart- and air* all e:ist by nat0re and ,-an,e* and
none o2 t-em by art* and t-at as to t-e bodies w-i,- ,ome ne:t in
order9eart-* and s0n* and moon* and stars9t-ey -a4e been ,reated by
means o2 t-ese absol0tely inanimate e:isten,es/ #-e elements are
se4erally mo4ed by ,-an,e and some in-erent 2or,e a,,ordin. to ,ertain
a22inities amon. t-em9o2 -ot wit- ,old* or o2 dry wit- moist* or o2
so2t wit- -ard* and a,,ordin. to all t-e ot-er a,,idental admi:t0res
o2 o11osites w-i,- -a4e been 2ormed by ne,essity/ A2ter t-is 2as-ion
and in t-is manner t-e w-ole -ea4en -as been ,reated* and all t-at
is in t-e -ea4en* as well as animals and all 1lants* and all t-e
seasons ,ome 2rom t-ese elements* not by t-e a,tion o2 mind* as t-ey
say* or o2 any &od* or 2rom art* b0t as I was sayin.* by nat0re and
,-an,e only/ Art s1ran. 01 a2terwards and o0t o2 t-ese* mortal and
o2 mortal birt-* and 1rod0,ed in 1lay ,ertain ima.es and 4ery
1artial imitations o2 t-e tr0t-* -a4in. an a22inity to one anot-er*
s0,- as m0si, and 1aintin. ,reate and t-eir ,om1anion arts/ And
t-ere are ot-er arts w-i,- -a4e a serio0s 10r1ose* and t-ese
,o9o1erate wit- nat0re* s0,-* 2or e:am1le* as medi,ine* and -0sbandry*
and .ymnasti,/ And t-ey say t-at 1oliti,s ,oo1erate wit- nat0re* b0t
in a less de.ree* and -a4e more o2 art) also t-at le.islation is
entirely a wor6 o2 art* and is based on ass0m1tions w-i,- are not
tr0e/
Cle/ $ow do yo0 mean3
At-/ In t-e 2irst 1la,e* my dear 2riend* t-ese 1eo1le wo0ld say t-at
t-e &ods e:ist not by nat0re* b0t by art* and by t-e laws o2 states*
w-i,- are di22erent in di22erent 1la,es* a,,ordin. to t-e a.reement o2
t-ose w-o ma6e t-em) and t-at t-e -ono0rable is one t-in. by nat0re
and anot-er t-in. by law* and t-at t-e 1rin,i1les o2 j0sti,e -a4e no
e:isten,e at all in nat0re* b0t t-at man6ind are always dis10tin.
abo0t t-em and alterin. t-em) and t-at t-e alterations w-i,- are
made by art and by law -a4e no basis in nat0re* b0t are o2 a0t-ority
2or t-e moment and at t-e time at w-i,- t-ey are made/9#-ese* my
2riends* are t-e sayin.s o2 wise men* 1oets and 1rose writers* w-i,-
2ind a way into t-e minds o2 yo0t-/ #-ey are told by t-em t-at t-e
-i.-est ri.-t is mi.-t* and in t-is way t-e yo0n. 2all into im1ieties*
0nder t-e idea t-at t-e &ods are not s0,- as t-e law bids t-em
ima.ine) and -en,e arise 2a,tions* t-ese 1-iloso1-ers in4itin. t-em to
lead a tr0e li2e a,,ordin. to nat0re* t-at is* to li4e in real
dominion o4er ot-ers* and not in le.al s0bje,tion to t-em/
Cle/ W-at a dread20l 1i,t0re* Stran.er* -a4e yo0 .i4en* and -ow
.reat is t-e inj0ry w-i,- is t-0s in2li,ted on yo0n. men to t-e r0in
bot- o2 states and 2amiliesD
At-/ #r0e* Cleinias) b0t t-en w-at s-o0ld t-e law.i4er do w-en
t-is e4il is o2 lon. standin.3 s-o0ld -e only rise 01 in t-e state and
t-reaten all man6ind* 1ro,laimin. t-at i2 t-ey will not say and
t-in6 t-at t-e &ods are s0,- as t-e law ordains >and t-is may be
e:tended .enerally to t-e -ono0rable* t-e j0st* and to all t-e -i.-est
t-in.s* and to all t-at relates to 4irt0e and 4i,e?* and i2 t-ey
will not ma6e t-eir a,tions ,on2orm to t-e ,o1y w-i,- t-e law .i4es
t-em* t-en -e w-o re20ses to obey t-e law s-all die* or s022er stri1es
and bonds* or 1ri4ation o2 ,iti<ens-i1* or in some ,ases be 10nis-ed
by loss o2 1ro1erty and e:ile3 S-o0ld -e not rat-er* w-en -e is ma6in.
laws 2or men* at t-e same time in20se t-e s1irit o2 1ers0asion into
-is words* and miti.ate t-e se4erity o2 t-em as 2ar as -e ,an3
Cle/ W-y* Stran.er* i2 s0,- 1ers0asion be at all 1ossible* t-en a
le.islator w-o -as anyt-in. in -im o0.-t ne4er to weary o2
1ers0adin. men) -e o0.-t to lea4e not-in. 0nsaid in s011ort o2 t-e
an,ient o1inion t-at t-ere are &ods* and o2 all t-ose ot-er tr0t-s
w-i,- yo0 were j0st now mentionin.) -e o0.-t to s011ort t-e law and
also art* and a,6nowled.e t-at bot- ali6e e:ist by nat0re* and no less
t-an nat0re* i2 t-ey are t-e ,reations o2 mind in a,,ordan,e wit-
ri.-t reason* yo0 a11ear to me to maintain* and I am dis1osed to a.ree
wit- yo0 in t-in6in./
At-/ 7es* my ent-0siasti, Cleinias) b0t are not t-ese t-in.s w-en
s1o6en to a m0ltit0de -ard to be 0nderstood* not to mention t-at
t-ey ta6e 01 a dismal len.t- o2 time3
Cle/ W-y* Stran.er* s-all we* w-ose 1atien,e 2ailed not w-en
drin6in. or m0si, were t-e t-emes o2 dis,o0rse* weary now o2
dis,o0rsin. abo0t t-e &ods* and abo0t di4ine t-in.s3 And t-e
.reatest -el1 to rational le.islation is t-at t-e laws w-en on,e
written down are always at rest) t-ey ,an be 10t to t-e test at any
20t0re time* and t-ere2ore* i2 on 2irst -earin. t-ey seem di22i,0lt*
t-ere is no reason 2or a11re-ension abo0t t-em* be,a0se any man
-owe4er d0ll ,an .o o4er t-em and ,onsider t-em a.ain and a.ain) nor
i2 t-ey are tedio0s b0t 0se20l* is t-ere any reason or reli.ion* as it
seems to me* in any man re20sin. to maintain t-e 1rin,i1les o2 t-em to
t-e 0tmost o2 -is 1ower/
+e.ill0s/ Stran.er* I li6e w-at Cleinias is sayin./
At-/ 7es* +e.ill0s* and we s-o0ld do as -e 1ro1oses) 2or i2
im1io0s dis,o0rses were not s,attered* as I may say* t-ro0.-o0t t-e
world* t-ere wo0ld -a4e been no need 2or any 4indi,ation o2 t-e
e:isten,e o2 t-e &ods9b0t seein. t-at t-ey are s1read 2ar and wide*
s0,- ar.0ments are needed) and w-o s-o0ld ,ome to t-e res,0e o2 t-e
.reatest laws* w-en t-ey are bein. 0ndermined by bad men* b0t t-e
le.islator -imsel23
+e./ #-ere is no more 1ro1er ,-am1ion o2 t-em/
At-/ Well* t-en* tell me* Cleinias92or I m0st as6 yo0 to be my
1artner9does not -e w-o tal6s in t-is way ,on,ei4e 2ire and water
and eart- and air to be t-e 2irst elements o2 all t-in.s3 #-ese -e
,alls nat0re* and o0t o2 t-ese -e s011oses t-e so0l to be 2ormed
a2terwards) and t-is is not a mere ,onje,t0re o2 o0rs abo0t -is
meanin.* b0t is w-at -e really means/
Cle/ 8ery tr0e/
At-/ #-en* by $ea4en* we -a4e dis,o4ered t-e so0r,e o2 t-is 4ain
o1inion o2 all t-ose 1-ysi,al in4esti.ators) and I wo0ld -a4e yo0
e:amine t-eir ar.0ments wit- t-e 0tmost ,are* 2or t-eir im1iety is a
4ery serio0s matter) t-ey not only ma6e a bad and mista6en 0se o2
ar.0ment* b0t t-ey lead away t-e minds o2 ot-ers( t-at is my o1inion
o2 t-em/
Cle/ 7o0 are ri.-t) b0t I s-o0ld li6e to 6now -ow t-is -a11ens/
At-/ I 2ear t-at t-e ar.0ment may seem sin.0lar/
Cle/ %o not -esitate* Stran.er) I see t-at yo0 are a2raid o2 s0,-
a dis,0ssion ,arryin. yo0 beyond t-e limits o2 le.islation/ B0t i2
t-ere be no ot-er way o2 s-owin. o0r a.reement in t-e belie2 t-at
t-ere are &ods* o2 w-om t-e law is said now to a11ro4e* let 0s ta6e
t-is way* my .ood sir/
At-/ #-en I s011ose t-at I m0st re1eat t-e sin.0lar ar.0ment o2
t-ose w-o man02a,t0re t-e so0l a,,ordin. to t-eir own im1io0s notions)
t-ey a22irm t-at w-i,- is t-e 2irst ,a0se o2 t-e .eneration and
destr0,tion o2 all t-in.s* to be not 2irst* b0t last* and t-at w-i,-
is last to be 2irst* and -en,e t-ey -a4e 2allen into error abo0t t-e
tr0e nat0re o2 t-e &ods/
Cle/ Still I do not 0nderstand yo0/
At-/ !early all o2 t-em* my 2riends* seem to be i.norant o2 t-e
nat0re and 1ower o2 t-e so0l* es1e,ially in w-at relates to -er
ori.in( t-ey do not 6now t-at s-e is amon. t-e 2irst o2 t-in.s* and
be2ore all bodies* and is t-e ,-ie2 a0t-or o2 t-eir ,-an.es and
trans1ositions/ And i2 t-is is tr0e* and i2 t-e so0l is older t-an t-e
body* m0st not t-e t-in.s w-i,- are o2 t-e so0l=s 6indred be o2
ne,essity 1rior to t-ose w-i,- a11ertain to t-e body3
Cle/ Certainly/
At-/ #-en t-o0.-t and attention and mind and art and law will be
1rior to t-at w-i,- is -ard and so2t and -ea4y and li.-t) and t-e
.reat and 1rimiti4e wor6s and a,tions will be wor6s o2 art) t-ey
will be t-e 2irst* and a2ter t-em will ,ome nat0re and wor6s o2
nat0re* w-i,- -owe4er is a wron. term 2or men to a11ly to t-em)
t-ese will 2ollow* and will be 0nder t-e .o4ernment o2 art and mind/
Cle/ B0t w-y is t-e word Anat0reA wron.3
At-/ Be,a0se t-ose w-o 0se t-e term mean to say t-at nat0re is t-e
2irst ,reati4e 1ower) b0t i2 t-e so0l t0rn o0t to be t-e 1rime4al
element* and not 2ire or air* t-en in t-e tr0est sense and beyond
ot-er t-in.s t-e so0l may be said to e:ist by nat0re) and t-is wo0ld
be tr0e i2 yo0 1ro4ed t-at t-e so0l is older t-an t-e body* b0t not
ot-erwise/
Cle/ 7o0 are ;0ite ri.-t/
At-/ S-all we* t-en* ta6e t-is as t-e ne:t 1oint to w-i,- o0r
attention s-o0ld be dire,ted3
Cle/ By all means/
At-/ Let 0s be on o0r .0ard lest t-is most de,e1ti4e ar.0ment wit-
its yo0t-20l loo6s* be.0ilin. 0s old men* .i4e 0s t-e sli1 and ma6e
a la0.-in.9sto,6 o2 0s/ W-o 6nows b0t we may be aimin. at t-e .reater*
and 2ail o2 attainin. t-e lesser3 S011ose t-at we t-ree -a4e to 1ass a
ra1id ri4er* and I* bein. t-e yo0n.est o2 t-e t-ree and e:1erien,ed in
ri4ers* ta6e 01on me t-e d0ty o2 ma6in. t-e attem1t 2irst by mysel2)
lea4in. yo0 in sa2ety on t-e ban6* I am to e:amine w-et-er t-e ri4er
is 1assable by older men li6e yo0rsel4es* and i2 s0,- a11ears to be
t-e ,ase t-en I s-all in4ite yo0 to 2ollow* and my e:1erien,e will
-el1 to ,on4ey yo0 a,ross) b0t i2 t-e ri4er is im1assable by yo0* t-en
t-ere will -a4e been no dan.er to anybody b0t mysel29wo0ld not t-at
seem to be a 4ery 2air 1ro1osal3 I mean to say t-at t-e ar.0ment in
1ros1e,t is li6ely to be too m0,- 2or yo0* o0t o2 yo0r de1t- and
beyond yo0r stren.t-* and I s-o0ld be a2raid t-at t-e stream o2 my
;0estions mi.-t ,reate in yo0 w-o are not in t-e -abit o2 answerin.*
.iddiness and ,on20sion o2 mind* and -en,e a 2eelin. o2 0n1leasantness
and 0ns0itableness mi.-t arise/ I t-in6 t-ere2ore t-at I -ad better
2irst as6 t-e ;0estions and t-en answer t-em mysel2 w-ile yo0 listen
in sa2ety) in t-at way I ,an ,arry on t-e ar.0ment 0ntil I -a4e
,om1leted t-e 1roo2 t-at t-e so0l is 1rior to t-e body/
Cle/ E:,ellent* Stran.er* and I -o1e t-at yo0 will do as yo0
1ro1ose/
At-/ Come* t-en* and i2 e4er we are to ,all 01on t-e &ods* let 0s
,all 01on t-em now in all serio0sness to ,ome to t-e demonstration
o2 t-eir own e:isten,e/ And so -oldin. 2ast to t-e ro1e we will
4ent0re 01on t-e de1t-s o2 t-e ar.0ment/ W-en ;0estions o2 t-is sort
are as6ed o2 me* my sa2est answer wo0ld a11ear to be as
2ollows(9Some one says to me* AO Stran.er* are all t-in.s at rest
and not-in. in motion* or is t-e e:a,t o11osite o2 t-is tr0e* or are
some t-in.s in motion and ot-ers at rest39#o t-is I s-all re1ly t-at
some t-in.s are in motion and ot-ers at rest/ AAnd do not t-in.s w-i,-
mo4e a 1la,e* and are not t-e t-in.s w-i,- are at rest at rest in a
1la,e3A Certainly/ AAnd some mo4e or rest in one 1la,e and some in
more 1la,es t-an one3A 7o0 mean to say* we s-all rejoin* t-at t-ose
t-in.s w-i,- rest at t-e ,entre mo4e in one 1la,e* j0st as t-e
,ir,0m2eren,e .oes ro0nd o2 .lobes w-i,- are said to be at rest3
A7es/A And we obser4e t-at* in t-e re4ol0tion* t-e motion w-i,-
,arries ro0nd t-e lar.er and t-e lesser ,ir,le at t-e same time is
1ro1ortionally distrib0ted to .reater and smaller* and is .reater
and smaller in a ,ertain 1ro1ortion/ $ere is a wonder w-i,- mi.-t be
t-o0.-t an im1ossibility* t-at t-e same motion s-o0ld im1art swi2tness
and slowness in d0e 1ro1ortion to lar.er and lesser ,ir,les/ A8ery
tr0e/A And w-en yo0 s1ea6 o2 bodies mo4in. in many 1la,es* yo0 seem to
me to mean t-ose w-i,- mo4e 2rom one 1la,e to anot-er* and sometimes
-a4e one ,entre o2 motion and sometimes more t-an one be,a0se t-ey
t0rn 01on t-eir a:is) and w-ene4er t-ey meet anyt-in.* i2 it be
stationary* t-ey are di4ided by it) b0t i2 t-ey .et in t-e midst
between bodies w-i,- are a11roa,-in. and mo4in. towards t-e same
s1ot 2rom o11osite dire,tions* t-ey 0nite wit- t-em/ AI admit t-e
tr0t- o2 w-at yo0 are sayin./A Also w-en t-ey 0nite t-ey .row* and
w-en t-ey are di4ided t-ey waste away9t-at is* s011osin. t-e
,onstit0tion o2 ea,- to remain* or i2 t-at 2ails* t-en t-ere is a
se,ond reason o2 t-eir dissol0tion/ AAnd w-en are all t-in.s ,reated
and -ow3A Clearly* t-ey are ,reated w-en t-e 2irst 1rin,i1le
re,ei4es in,rease and attains to t-e se,ond dimension* and 2rom t-is
arri4es at t-e one w-i,- is nei.-bo0r to t-is* and a2ter rea,-in.
t-e t-ird be,omes 1er,e1tible to sense/ E4eryt-in. w-i,- is t-0s
,-an.in. and mo4in. is in 1ro,ess o2 .eneration) only w-en at rest -as
it real e:isten,e* b0t w-en 1assin. into anot-er state it is destroyed
0tterly/ $a4e we not mentioned all motions t-at t-ere are* and
,om1re-ended t-em 0nder t-eir 6inds and n0mbered t-em wit- t-e
e:,e1tion* my 2riends* o2 two3
Cle/ W-i,- are t-ey3
At-/ J0st t-e two* wit- w-i,- o0r 1resent en;0iry is ,on,erned/
Cle/ S1ea6 1lainer/
At-/ I s011ose t-at o0r en;0iry -as re2eren,e to t-e so0l3
Cle/ 8ery tr0e/
At-/ Let 0s ass0me t-at t-ere is a motion able to mo4e ot-er t-in.s*
b0t not to mo4e itsel2)9t-at is one 6ind) and t-ere is anot-er 6ind
w-i,- ,an mo4e itsel2 as well as ot-er t-in.s* wor6in. in
,om1osition and de,om1osition* by in,rease and dimin0tion and
.eneration and destr0,tion9t-at is also one o2 t-e many 6inds o2
motion/
Cle/ &ranted/
At-/ And we will ass0me t-at w-i,- mo4es ot-er* and is ,-an.ed by
ot-er* to be t-e nint-* and t-at w-i,- ,-an.es itsel2 and ot-ers*
and is ,o9in,ident wit- e4ery a,tion and e4ery 1assion* and is t-e
tr0e 1rin,i1le o2 ,-an.e and motion in all t-at is9t-at we s-all be
in,lined to ,all t-e tent-/
Cle/ Certainly/
At-/ And w-i,- o2 t-ese ten motions o0.-t we to 1re2er as bein.
t-e mi.-tiest and most e22i,ient3
Cle/ I m0st say t-at t-e motion w-i,- is able to mo4e itsel2 is
ten t-o0sand times s01erior to all t-e ot-ers/
At-/ 8ery .ood) b0t may I ma6e one or two ,orre,tions in w-at I -a4e
been sayin.3
Cle/ W-at are t-ey3
At-/ W-en I s1o6e o2 t-e tent- sort o2 motion* t-at was not ;0ite
,orre,t/
Cle/ W-at was t-e error3
At-/ A,,ordin. to t-e tr0e order* t-e tent- was really t-e 2irst
in .eneration and 1ower) t-en 2ollows t-e se,ond* w-i,- was
stran.ely eno0.- termed t-e nint- by 0s/
Cle/ W-at do yo0 mean3
At-/ I mean t-is( w-en one t-in. ,-an.es anot-er* and t-at
anot-er* o2 s0,- will t-ere be any 1rimary ,-an.in. element3 $ow ,an a
t-in. w-i,- is mo4ed by anot-er e4er be t-e be.innin. o2 ,-an.e3
Im1ossible/ B0t w-en t-e sel29mo4ed ,-an.es ot-er* and t-at a.ain
ot-er* and t-0s t-o0sands 01on tens o2 t-o0sands o2 bodies are set
in motion* m0st not t-e be.innin. o2 all t-is motion be t-e ,-an.e
o2 t-e sel29mo4in. 1rin,i1le3
Cle/ 8ery tr0e* and I ;0ite a.ree/
At-/ Or* to 10t t-e ;0estion in anot-er way* ma6in. answer to
o0rsel4es(9I2* as most o2 t-ese 1-iloso1-ers -a4e t-e a0da,ity to
a22irm* all t-in.s were at rest in one mass* w-i,- o2 t-e
abo4e9mentioned 1rin,i1les o2 motion wo0ld 2irst s1rin. 01 amon. t-em3
Cle/ Clearly t-e sel29mo4in.) 2or t-ere ,o0ld be no ,-an.e in t-em
arisin. o0t o2 any e:ternal ,a0se) t-e ,-an.e m0st 2irst ta6e 1la,e in
t-emsel4es/
At-/ #-en we m0st say t-at sel29motion bein. t-e ori.in o2 all
motions* and t-e 2irst w-i,- arises amon. t-in.s at rest as well as
amon. t-in.s in motion* is t-e eldest and mi.-tiest 1rin,i1le o2
,-an.e* and t-at w-i,- is ,-an.ed by anot-er and yet mo4es ot-er is
se,ond/
Cle/ @0ite tr0e/
At-/ At t-is sta.e o2 t-e ar.0ment let 0s 10t a ;0estion/
Cle/ W-at ;0estion3
At-/ I2 we were to see t-is 1ower e:istin. in any eart-y* watery* or
2iery s0bstan,e* sim1le or ,om1o0nd9-ow s-o0ld we des,ribe it3
Cle/ 7o0 mean to as6 w-et-er we s-o0ld ,all s0,- a sel29mo4in. 1ower
li2e3
At-/ I do/
Cle/ Certainly we s-o0ld/
At-/ And w-en we see so0l in anyt-in.* m0st we not do t-e
same9m0st we not admit t-at t-is is li2e3
Cle/ We m0st/
At-/ And now* I besee,- yo0* re2le,t)9yo0 wo0ld admit t-at we -a4e a
t-ree2old 6nowled.e o2 t-in.s3
Cle/ W-at do yo0 mean3
At-/ I mean t-at we 6now t-e essen,e* and t-at we 6now t-e
de2inition o2 t-e essen,e* and t-e name*9t-ese are t-e t-ree) and
t-ere are two ;0estions w-i,- may be raised abo0t anyt-in./
Cle/ $ow two3
At-/ Sometimes a 1erson may .i4e t-e name and as6 t-e de2inition) or
-e may .i4e t-e de2inition and as6 t-e name/ I may ill0strate w-at I
mean in t-is way/
Cle/ $ow3
At-/ !0mber li6e some ot-er t-in.s is ,a1able o2 bein. di4ided
into e;0al 1arts) w-en t-0s di4ided* n0mber is named Ae4en*A and t-e
de2inition o2 t-e name Ae4enA is An0mber di4isible into two e;0al
1artsA3
Cle/ #r0e/
At-/ I mean* t-at w-en we are as6ed abo0t t-e de2inition and .i4e
t-e name* or w-en we are as6ed abo0t t-e name and .i4e t-e
de2inition9in eit-er ,ase* w-et-er we .i4e name or de2inition* we
s1ea6 o2 t-e same t-in.* ,allin. Ae4enA t-e n0mber w-i,- is di4ided
into two e;0al 1arts/
Cle/ @0ite tr0e/
At-/ And w-at is t-e de2inition o2 t-at w-i,- is named Aso0lA3 Can
we ,on,ei4e o2 any ot-er t-an t-at w-i,- -as been already .i4en9t-e
motion w-i,- ,an mo4e itsel23
Cle/ 7o0 mean to say t-at t-e essen,e w-i,- is de2ined as t-e
sel29mo4ed is t-e same wit- t-at w-i,- -as t-e name so0l3
At-/ 7es) and i2 t-is is tr0e* do we still maintain t-at t-ere is
anyt-in. wantin. in t-e 1roo2 t-at t-e so0l is t-e 2irst ori.in and
mo4in. 1ower o2 all t-at is* or -as be,ome* or will be* and t-eir
,ontraries* w-en s-e -as been ,learly s-own to be t-e so0r,e o2 ,-an.e
and motion in all t-in.s3
Cle/ Certainly not) t-e so0l as bein. t-e so0r,e o2 motion* -as been
most satis2a,torily s-own to be t-e oldest o2 all t-in.s/
At-/ And is not t-at motion w-i,- is 1rod0,ed in anot-er* by
reason o2 anot-er* b0t ne4er -as any sel29mo4in. 1ower at all* bein.
in tr0t- t-e ,-an.e o2 an inanimate body* to be re,6oned se,ond* or by
any lower n0mber w-i,- yo0 may 1re2er3
Cle/ E:a,tly/
At-/ #-en we are ri.-t* and s1ea6 t-e most 1er2e,t and absol0te
tr0t-* w-en we say t-at t-e so0l is 1rior to t-e body* and t-at t-e
body is se,ond and ,omes a2terwards* and is born to obey t-e so0l*
w-i,- is t-e r0ler3
Cle/ !ot-in. ,an be more tr0e/
At-/ %o yo0 remember o0r old admission* t-at i2 t-e so0l was 1rior
to t-e body t-e t-in.s o2 t-e so0l were also 1rior to t-ose o2 t-e
body3
Cle/ Certainly/
At-/ #-en ,-ara,ters and manners* and wis-es and reasonin.s* and
tr0e o1inions* and re2le,tions* and re,olle,tions are 1rior to
len.t- and breadt- and de1t- and stren.t- o2 bodies* i2 t-e so0l is
1rior to t-e body/
Cle/ #o be s0re/
At-/ In t-e ne:t 1la,e* m0st we not o2 ne,essity admit t-at t-e so0l
is t-e ,a0se o2 .ood and e4il* base and -ono0rable* j0st and 0nj0st*
and o2 all ot-er o11osites* i2 we s011ose -er to be t-e ,a0se o2 all
t-in.s3
Cle/ We m0st/
At-/ And as t-e so0l orders and in-abits all t-in.s t-at mo4e*
-owe4er mo4in.* m0st we not say t-at s-e orders also t-e -ea4ens3
Cle/ O2 ,o0rse/
At-/ One so0l or more3 +ore t-an one9I will answer 2or yo0) at any
rate* we m0st not s011ose t-at t-ere are less t-an two9one t-e
a0t-or o2 .ood* and t-e ot-er o2 e4il/
Cle/ 8ery tr0e/
At-/ 7es* 4ery tr0e) t-e so0l t-en dire,ts all t-in.s in -ea4en* and
eart-* and sea by -er mo4ements* and t-ese are des,ribed by t-e
terms9will* ,onsideration* attention* deliberation* o1inion tr0e and
2alse* joy and sorrow* ,on2iden,e* 2ear* -atred* lo4e* and ot-er
1rimary motions a6in to t-ese) w-i,- a.ain re,ei4e t-e se,ondary
motions o2 ,or1oreal s0bstan,es* and .0ide all t-in.s to .rowt- and
de,ay* to ,om1osition and de,om1osition* and to t-e ;0alities w-i,-
a,,om1any t-em* s0,- as -eat and ,old* -ea4iness and li.-tness*
-ardness and so2tness* bla,6ness and w-iteness* bitterness and
sweetness* and all t-ose ot-er ;0alities w-i,- t-e so0l 0ses*
-ersel2 a .oddess* w-en tr0ly re,ei4in. t-e di4ine mind s-e
dis,i1lines all t-in.s ri.-tly to t-eir -a11iness) b0t w-en s-e is t-e
,om1anion o2 2olly* s-e does t-e 4ery ,ontrary o2 all t-is/ S-all we
ass0me so m0,-* or do we still entertain do0bts3
Cle/ #-ere is no room at all 2or do0bt/
At-/ S-all we say t-en t-at it is t-e so0l w-i,- ,ontrols -ea4en and
eart-* and t-e w-ole world39t-at it is a 1rin,i1le o2 wisdom and
4irt0e* or a 1rin,i1le w-i,- -as neit-er wisdom nor 4irt0e3 S011ose
t-at we ma6e answer as 2ollows(9
Cle/ $ow wo0ld yo0 answer3
At-/ I2* my 2riend* we say t-at t-e w-ole 1at- and mo4ement o2
-ea4en* and o2 all t-at is t-erein* is by nat0re a6in to t-e
mo4ement and re4ol0tion and ,al,0lation o2 mind* and 1ro,eeds by
6indred laws* t-en* as is 1lain* we m0st say t-at t-e best so0l
ta6es ,are o2 t-e world and .0ides it alon. t-e .ood 1at-/
Cle/ #r0e/
At-/ B0t i2 t-e world mo4es wildly and irre.0larly* t-en t-e e4il
so0l .0ides it/
Cle/ #r0e a.ain/
At-/ O2 w-at nat0re is t-e mo4ement o2 mind39#o t-is ;0estion it
is not easy to .i4e an intelli.ent answer) and t-ere2ore I o0.-t to
assist yo0 in 2ramin. one/
Cle/ 8ery .ood/
At-/ #-en let 0s not answer as i2 we wo0ld loo6 strai.-t at t-e s0n*
ma6in. o0rsel4es dar6ness at midday9I mean as i2 we were 0nder t-e
im1ression t-at we ,o0ld see wit- mortal eyes* or 6now ade;0ately
t-e nat0re o2 mind)9it will be sa2er to loo6 at t-e ima.e only/
Cle/ W-at do yo0 mean3
At-/ Let 0s sele,t o2 t-e ten motions t-e one w-i,- mind ,-ie2ly
resembles) t-is I will brin. to yo0r re,olle,tion* and will t-en
ma6e t-e answer on be-al2 o2 0s all/
Cle/ #-at will be e:,ellent/
At-/ 7o0 will s0rely remember o0r sayin. t-at all t-in.s were eit-er
at rest or in motion3
Cle/ I do/
At-/ And t-at o2 t-in.s in motion some were mo4in. in one 1la,e* and
ot-ers in more t-an one3
Cle/ 7es/
At-/ O2 t-ese two 6inds o2 motion* t-at w-i,- mo4es in one 1la,e
m0st mo4e abo0t a ,entre li6e .lobes made in a lat-e* and is most
entirely a6in and similar to t-e ,ir,0lar mo4ement o2 mind/
Cle/ W-at do yo0 mean3
At-/ In sayin. t-at bot- mind and t-e motion w-i,- is in one 1la,e
mo4e in t-e same and li6e manner* in and abo0t t-e same* and in
relation to t-e same* and a,,ordin. to one 1ro1ortion and order* and
are li6e t-e motion o2 a .lobe* we in4ented a 2air ima.e* w-i,- does
no dis,redit to o0r in.en0ity/
Cle/ It does 0s .reat ,redit/
At-/ And t-e motion o2 t-e ot-er sort w-i,- is not a2ter t-e same
manner* nor in t-e same* nor abo0t t-e same* nor in relation to t-e
same* nor in one 1la,e* nor in order* nor a,,ordin. to any r0le or
1ro1ortion* may be said to be a6in to senselessness and 2olly3
Cle/ #-at is most tr0e/
At-/ #-en* a2ter w-at -as been said* t-ere is no di22i,0lty in
distin,tly statin.* t-at sin,e so0l ,arries all t-in.s ro0nd* eit-er
t-e best so0l or t-e ,ontrary m0st o2 ne,essity ,arry ro0nd and
order and arran.e t-e re4ol0tion o2 t-e -ea4en/
Cle/ And j0d.in. 2rom w-at -as been said* Stran.er* t-ere wo0ld be
im1iety in assertin. t-at any b0t t-e most 1er2e,t so0l or so0ls
,arries ro0nd t-e -ea4ens/
At-/ 7o0 -a4e 0nderstood my meanin. ri.-t well* Cleinias* and now
let me as6 yo0 anot-er ;0estion/
Cle/ W-at are yo0 .oin. to as63
At-/ I2 t-e so0l ,arries ro0nd t-e s0n and moon* and t-e ot-er
stars* does s-e not ,arry ro0nd ea,- indi4id0al o2 t-em3
Cle/ Certainly/
At-/ #-en o2 one o2 t-em let 0s s1ea6* and t-e same ar.0ment will
a11ly to all/
Cle/ W-i,- will yo0 ta6e3
At-/ E4ery one sees t-e body o2 t-e s0n* b0t no one sees -is so0l*
nor t-e so0l o2 any ot-er body li4in. or dead) and yet t-ere is
.reat reason to belie4e t-at t-is nat0re* 0n1er,ei4ed by any o2 o0r
senses* is ,ir,0m20sed aro0nd t-em all* b0t is 1er,ei4ed by mind)
and t-ere2ore by mind and re2le,tion only let 0s a11re-end t-e
2ollowin. 1oint/
Cle/ W-at is t-at3
At-/ I2 t-e so0l ,arries ro0nd t-e s0n* we s-all not be 2ar wron. in
s011osin. one o2 t-ree alternati4es/
Cle/ W-at are t-ey3
At-/ Eit-er t-e so0l w-i,- mo4es t-e s0n t-is way and t-at*
resides wit-in t-e ,ir,0lar and 4isible body* li6e t-e so0l w-i,-
,arries 0s abo0t e4ery way) or t-e so0l 1ro4ides -ersel2 wit- an
e:ternal body o2 2ire or air* as some a22irm* and 4iolently 1ro1els
body by body) or t-irdly* s-e is wit-o0t s0,- abody* b0t .0ides t-e
s0n by some e:traordinary and wonder20l 1ower/
Cle/ 7es* ,ertainly) t-e so0l ,an only order all t-in.s in one o2
t-ese t-ree ways/
At-/ And t-is so0l o2 t-e s0n* w-i,- is t-ere2ore better t-an t-e
s0n* w-et-er ta6in. t-e s0n abo0t in a ,-ariot to .i4e li.-t to men*
or a,tin. 2rom wit-o0t or in w-ate4er way* o0.-t by e4ery man to be
deemed a &od/
Cle/ 7es* by e4ery man w-o -as t-e least 1arti,le o2 sense/
At-/ And o2 t-e stars too* and o2 t-e moon* and o2 t-e years and
mont-s and seasons* m0st we not say in li6e manner* t-at sin,e a
so0l or so0ls -a4in. e4ery sort o2 e:,ellen,e are t-e ,a0ses o2 all o2
t-em* t-ose so0ls are &ods* w-et-er t-ey are li4in. bein.s and
reside in bodies* and in t-is way order t-e w-ole -ea4en* or
w-ate4er be t-e 1la,e and mode o2 t-eir e:isten,e)9and will any one
w-o admits all t-is 4ent0re to deny t-at all t-in.s 20ll o2 &ods3
Cle/ !o one* Stran.er* wo0ld be s0,- a madman/
At-/ And now* +e.ill0s and Cleinias* let 0s o22er terms to -im w-o
-as -it-erto denied t-e e:isten,e o2 t-e &ods* and lea4e -im/
Cle/ W-at terms3
At-/ Eit-er -e s-all tea,- 0s t-at we were wron. in sayin. t-at
t-e so0l is t-e ori.inal o2 all t-in.s* and ar.0in. a,,ordin.ly) or*
i2 -e be not able to say anyt-in. better* t-en -e m0st yield to 0s and
li4e 2or t-e remainder o2 -is li2e in t-e belie2 t-at t-ere are
&ods/9Let 0s see* t-en* w-et-er we -a4e said eno0.- or not eno0.- to
t-ose w-o deny t-at t-ere are &ods/
Cle/ Certainly9;0ite eno0.-* Stran.er/
At-/ #-en to t-em we will say no more/ And now we are to address -im
w-o* belie4in. t-at t-ere are &ods* belie4es also t-at t-ey ta6e no
-eed o2 -0man a22airs( #o -im we say9O t-o0 best o2 men* in
belie4in. t-at t-ere are &ods yo0 are led by some a22inity to t-em*
w-i,- attra,ts yo0 towards yo0r 6indred and ma6es yo0 -ono0r and
belie4e in t-em/ B0t t-e 2ort0nes o2 e4il and 0nri.-teo0s men in
1ri4ate as well as 10bli, li2e* w-i,-* t-o0.- not really -a11y* are
wron.ly ,o0nted -a11y in t-e j0d.ment o2 men* and are ,elebrated
bot- by 1oets and 1rose writers9t-ese draw yo0 aside 2rom yo0r nat0ral
1iety/ Per-a1s yo0 -a4e seen im1io0s men .rowin. old and lea4in. t-eir
,-ildren=s ,-ildren in -i.- o22i,es* and t-eir 1ros1erity s-a6es
yo0r 2ait-9yo0 -a4e 6nown or -eard or been yo0rsel2 an eyewitness o2
many monstro0s im1ieties* and -a4e be-eld men by s0,- ,riminal
means 2rom small be.innin.s attainin. to so4erei.nty and t-e
1inna,le o2 .reatness) and ,onsiderin. all t-ese t-in.s yo0 do not
li6e to a,,0se t-e &ods o2 t-em* be,a0se t-ey are yo0r relati4es)
and so 2rom some want o2 reasonin. 1ower* and also 2rom an
0nwillin.ness to 2ind 2a0lt wit- t-em* yo0 -a4e ,ome to belie4e t-at
t-ey e:ist indeed* b0t -a4e no t-o0.-t or ,are o2 -0man t-in.s/ !ow*
t-at yo0r 1resent e4il o1inion may not .row to still .reater
im1iety* and t-at we may i2 1ossible 0se ar.0ments w-i,- may ,onj0re
away t-e e4il be2ore it arri4es* we will add anot-er ar.0ment to
t-at ori.inally addressed to -im w-o 0tterly denied t-e e:isten,e o2
t-e &ods/ And do yo0* +e.ill0s and Cleinias* answer 2or t-e yo0n.
man as yo0 did be2ore) and i2 any im1ediment ,omes in o0r way* I
will ta6e t-e word o0t o2 yo0r mo0t-s* and ,arry yo0 o4er t-e ri4er as
I did j0st now/
Cle/ 8ery .ood) do as yo0 say* and we will -el1 yo0 as well as we
,an/
At-/ #-ere will 1robably be no di22i,0lty in 1ro4in. to -im t-at t-e
&ods ,are abo0t t-e small as well as abo0t t-e .reat/ "or -e was
1resent and -eard w-at was said* t-at t-ey are 1er2e,tly .ood* and
t-at t-e ,are o2 all t-in.s is most entirely nat0ral to t-em/
Cle/ !o do0bt -e -eard t-at/
At-/ Let 0s ,onsider to.et-er in t-e ne:t 1la,e w-at we mean by t-is
4irt0e w-i,- we as,ribe to t-em/ S0rely we s-o0ld say t-at to be
tem1erate and to 1ossess mind belon.s to 4irt0e* and t-e ,ontrary to
4i,e3
Cle/ Certainly/
At-/ 7es) and ,o0ra.e is a 1art o2 4irt0e* and ,owardi,e o2 4i,e3
Cle/ #r0e/
At-/ And t-e one is -ono0rable* and t-e ot-er dis-ono0rable3
Cle/ #o be s0re/
At-/ And t-e one* li6e ot-er meaner t-in.s* is a -0man ;0ality*
b0t t-e &ods -a4e no 1art in anyt-in. o2 t-e sort3
Cle/ #-at a.ain is w-at e4erybody will admit/
At-/ B0t do we ima.ine ,arelessness and idleness and l0:0ry to be
4irt0es3 W-at do yo0 t-in63
Cle/ %e,idedly not/
At-/ #-ey ran6 0nder t-e o11osite ,lass3
Cle/ 7es/
At-/ And t-eir o11osites* t-ere2ore* wo0ld 2all 0nder t-e o11osite
,lass3
Cle/ 7es/
At-/ B0t are we to s011ose t-at one w-o 1ossesses all t-ese .ood
;0alities will be l0:0rio0s and -eedless and idle* li6e t-ose w-om t-e
1oet ,om1ares to stin.less drones3
Cle/ And t-e ,om1arison is a most j0st one/
At-/ S0rely &od m0st not be s011osed to -a4e a nat0re w-i,- -e
-imsel2 -ates39-e w-o dares to say t-is sort o2 t-in. m0st not be
tolerated 2or a moment/
Cle/ O2 ,o0rse not/ $ow ,o0ld -e -a4e3
At-/ S-o0ld we not on any 1rin,i1le be entirely mista6en in 1raisin.
any one w-o -as some s1e,ial b0siness entr0sted to -im* i2 -e -a4e a
mind w-i,- ta6es ,are o2 .reat matters and no ,are o2 small ones3
e2le,t) -e w-o a,ts in t-is way* w-et-er -e be &od or man* m0st a,t
2rom one o2 two 1rin,i1les/
Cle/ W-at are t-ey3
At-/ Eit-er -e m0st t-in6 t-at t-e ne.le,t o2 t-e small matters is
o2 no ,onse;0en,e to t-e w-ole* or i2 -e 6nows t-at t-ey are o2
,onse;0en,e* and -e ne.le,ts t-em* -is ne.le,t m0st be attrib0ted to
,arelessness and indolen,e/ Is t-ere any ot-er way in w-i,- -is
ne.le,t ,an be e:1lained3 "or s0rely* w-en it is im1ossible 2or -im to
ta6e ,are o2 all* -e is not ne.li.ent i2 -e 2ails to attend to t-ese
t-in.s .reat or small* w-i,- a &od or some in2erior bein. mi.-t be
wantin. in stren.t- or ,a1a,ity to mana.e3
Cle/ Certainly not/
At-/ !ow* t-en* let 0s e:amine t-e o22enders* w-o bot- ali6e ,on2ess
t-at t-ere are &ods* b0t wit- a di22eren,e9t-e one sayin. t-at t-ey
may be a11eased* and t-e ot-er t-at t-ey -a4e no ,are o2 small
matters( t-ere are t-ree o2 0s and two o2 t-em* and we will say to
t-em9In t-e 2irst 1la,e* yo0 bot- a,6nowled.e t-at t-e &ods -ear and
see and 6now all t-in.s* and t-at not-in. ,an es,a1e t-em w-i,- is
matter o2 sense and 6nowled.e(9do yo0 admit t-is3
Cle/ 7es/
At-/ And do yo0 admit also t-at t-ey -a4e all 1ower w-i,- mortals
and immortals ,an -a4e3
Cle/ #-ey will* o2 ,o0rse* admit t-is also/
At-/ And s0rely we t-ree and t-ey two92i4e in all9-a4e
a,6nowled.ed t-at t-ey are .ood and 1er2e,t3
Cle/ Ass0redly/
At-/ B0t* i2 t-ey are s0,- as we ,on,ei4e t-em to be* ,an we
1ossibly s011ose t-at t-ey e4er a,t in t-e s1irit o2 ,arelessness
and indolen,e3 "or in 0s ina,ti4ity is t-e ,-ild o2 ,owardi,e* and
,arelessness o2 ina,ti4ity and indolen,e/
Cle/ +ost tr0e/
At-/ #-en not 2rom ina,ti4ity and ,arelessness is any &od e4er
ne.li.ent) 2or t-ere is no ,owardi,e in t-em/
Cle/ #-at is 4ery tr0e/
At-/ #-en t-e alternati4e w-i,- remains is* t-at i2 t-e &ods ne.le,t
t-e li.-ter and lesser ,on,erns o2 t-e 0ni4erse* t-ey ne.le,t t-em
be,a0se t-ey 6now t-at t-ey o0.-t not to ,are abo0t s0,-
matters9w-at ot-er alternati4e is t-ere b0t t-e o11osite o2 t-eir
6nowin.3
Cle/ #-ere is none/
At-/ And* O most e:,ellent and best o2 men* do I 0nderstand yo0 to
mean t-at t-ey are ,areless be,a0se t-ey are i.norant* and do not 6now
t-at t-ey o0.-t to ta6e ,are* or t-at t-ey 6now* and yet li6e t-e
meanest sort o2 men* 6nowin. t-e better* ,-oose t-e worse be,a0se t-ey
are o4er,ome by 1leas0res and 1ains3
Cle/ Im1ossible/
At-/ %o not all -0man t-in.s 1arta6e o2 t-e nat0re o2 so0l3 And is
not man t-e most reli.io0s o2 all animals3
Cle/ #-at is not to be denied/
At-/ And we a,6nowled.e t-at all mortal ,reat0res are t-e 1ro1erty
o2 t-e &ods* to w-om also t-e w-ole o2 -ea4en belon.s3
Cle/ Certainly/
At-/ And* t-ere2ore* w-et-er a 1erson says t-at t-ese t-in.s are
to t-e &ods .reat or small9in eit-er ,ase it wo0ld not be nat0ral
2or t-e &ods w-o own 0s* and w-o are t-e most ,are20l and t-e best
o2 owners to ne.le,t 0s/9#-ere is also a 20rt-er ,onsideration/
Cle/ W-at is it3
At-/ Sensation and 1ower are in an in4erse ratio to ea,- ot-er in
res1e,t to t-eir ,ase and di22i,0lty/
Cle/ W-at do yo0 mean3
At-/ I mean t-at t-ere is .reater di22i,0lty in seein. and -earin.
t-e small t-an t-e .reat* b0t more 2a,ility in mo4in. and
,ontrollin. and ta6in. ,are o2 and 0nim1ortant t-in.s t-an o2 t-eir
o11osites/
Cle/ "ar more/
At-/ S011ose t-e ,ase o2 a 1-ysi,ian w-o is willin. and able to ,0re
some li4in. t-in. as a w-ole9-ow will t-e w-ole 2are at -is -ands i2
-e ta6es ,are only o2 t-e .reater and ne.le,ts t-e 1arts w-i,- are
lesser3
Cle/ %e,idedly not well/
At-/ !o better wo0ld be t-e res0lt wit- 1ilots or .enerals* or
-o0se-olders or statesmen* or any ot-er s0,- ,lass* i2 t-ey
ne.le,ted t-e small and re.arded only t-e .reat)9as t-e b0ilders
say* t-e lar.er stones do not lie well wit-o0t t-e lesser/
Cle/ O2 ,o0rse not/
At-/ Let 0s not* t-en* deem &od in2erior to -0man wor6men* w-o* in
1ro1ortion to t-eir s6ill* 2inis- and 1er2e,t t-eir wor6s* small as
well as .reat* by one and t-e same art) or t-at &od* t-e wisest o2
bein.s* w-o is bot- willin. and able to ta6e ,are* is li6e a la<y
.ood92or9not-in.* or a ,oward* w-o t0rns -is ba,6 01on labo0r and
.i4es no t-o0.-t to smaller and easier matters* b0t to t-e .reater
only/
Cle/ !e4er* Stran.er* let 0s admit a s011osition abo0t t-e &ods
w-i,- is bot- im1io0s and 2alse/
At-/ I t-in6 t-at we -a4e now ar.0ed eno0.- wit- -im w-o deli.-ts to
a,,0se t-e &ods o2 ne.le,t/
Cle/ 7es/
At-/ $e -as been 2or,ed to a,6nowled.e t-at -e is in error* b0t -e
still seems to me to need some words o2 ,onsolation/
Cle/ W-at ,onsolation will yo0 o22er -im3
At-/ Let 0s say to t-e yo0t-(9#-e r0ler o2 t-e 0ni4erse -as
ordered all t-in.s wit- a 4iew to t-e e:,ellen,e and 1reser4ation o2
t-e w-ole* and ea,- 1art* as 2ar as may be* -as an a,tion and
1assion a11ro1riate to it/ O4er t-ese* down to t-e least 2ra,tion o2
t-em* ministers -a4e been a11ointed to 1reside* w-o -a4e wro0.-t o0t
t-eir 1er2e,tion wit- in2initesimal e:a,tness/ And one o2 t-ese
1ortions o2 t-e 0ni4erse is t-ine own* 0n-a11y man* w-i,-* -owe4er
little* ,ontrib0tes to t-e w-ole) and yo0 do not seem to be aware t-at
t-is and e4ery ot-er ,reation is 2or t-e sa6e o2 t-e w-ole* and in
order t-at t-e li2e o2 t-e w-ole may be blessed) and t-at yo0 are
,reated 2or t-e sa6e o2 t-e w-ole* and not t-e w-ole 2or t-e sa6e o2
yo0/ "or e4ery 1-ysi,ian and e4ery s6illed artist does all t-in.s
2or t-e sa6e o2 t-e w-ole* dire,tin. -is e22ort towards t-e ,ommon
.ood* e:e,0tin. t-e 1art 2or t-e sa6e o2 t-e w-ole* and not t-e
w-ole 2or t-e sa6e o2 t-e 1art/ And yo0 are annoyed be,a0se yo0 are
i.norant -ow w-at is best 2or yo0 -a11ens to yo0 and to t-e
0ni4erse* as 2ar as t-e laws o2 t-e ,ommon ,reation admit/ !ow* as t-e
so0l ,ombinin. 2irst wit- one body and t-en wit- anot-er 0nder.oes all
sorts o2 ,-an.es* eit-er o2 -ersel2* or t-ro0.- t-e in2l0en,e o2
anot-er so0l* all t-at remains to t-e 1layer o2 t-e .ame is t-at -e
s-o0ld s-i2t t-e 1ie,es) sendin. t-e better nat0re to t-e better
1la,e* and t-e worse to t-e worse* and so assi.nin. to t-em t-eir
1ro1er 1ortion/
Cle/ In w-at way do yo0 mean3
At-/ In a way w-i,- may be s011osed to ma6e t-e ,are o2 all t-in.s
easy to t-e &ods/ I2 any one were to 2orm or 2as-ion all t-in.s
wit-o0t any re.ard to t-e w-ole9i2* 2or e:am1le* -e 2ormed a li4in.
element o2 water o0t o2 2ire* instead o2 2ormin. many t-in.s o0t o2
one or one o0t o2 many in re.0lar order attainin. to a 2irst or se,ond
or t-ird birt-* t-e transm0tation wo0ld -a4e been in2inite) b0t now
t-e r0ler o2 t-e world -as a wonder20lly easy tas6/
Cle/ $ow so3
At-/ I will e:1lain(9W-en t-e 6in. saw t-at o0r a,tions -ad li2e*
and t-at t-ere was m0,- 4irt0e in t-em and m0,- 4i,e* and t-at t-e
so0l and body* alt-o0.- not* li6e t-e &ods o2 1o10lar o1inion*
eternal* yet -a4in. on,e ,ome into e:isten,e* were indestr0,tible >2or
i2 eit-er o2 t-em -ad been destroyed* t-ere wo0ld -a4e been no
.eneration o2 li4in. bein.s?) and w-en -e obser4ed t-at t-e .ood o2
t-e so0l was e4er by nat0re desi.ned to 1ro2it men* and t-e e4il to
-arm t-em9-e* seein. all t-is* ,ontri4ed so to 1la,e ea,- o2 t-e 1arts
t-at t-eir 1osition mi.-t in t-e easiest and best manner 1ro,0re t-e
4i,tory o2 .ood and t-e de2eat o2 e4il in t-e w-ole/ And -e
,ontri4ed a .eneral 1lan by w-i,- a t-in. o2 a ,ertain nat0re 2o0nd
a ,ertain seat and room/ B0t t-e 2ormation o2 ;0alities -e le2t to t-e
wills o2 indi4id0als/ "or e4ery one o2 0s is made 1retty m0,- w-at
-e is by t-e bent o2 -is desires and t-e nat0re o2 -is so0l/
Cle/ 7es* t-at is 1robably tr0e/
At-/ #-en all t-in.s w-i,- -a4e a so0l ,-an.e* and 1ossess in
t-emsel4es a 1rin,i1le o2 ,-an.e* and in ,-an.in. mo4e a,,ordin. to
law and to t-e order o2 destiny( nat0res w-i,- -a4e 0nder.one a lesser
,-an.e mo4e less and on t-e eart-=s s0r2a,e* b0t t-ose w-i,- -a4e
s022ered more ,-an.e and -a4e be,ome more ,riminal sin6 into t-e
abyss* t-at is to say* into $ades and ot-er 1la,es in t-e world below*
o2 w-i,- t-e 4ery names terri2y men* and w-i,- t-ey 1i,t0re to
t-emsel4es as in a dream* bot- w-ile ali4e and w-en released 2rom
t-e body/ And w-ene4er t-e so0l re,ei4es more o2 .ood or e4il 2rom -er
own ener.y and t-e stron. in2l0en,e o2 ot-ers9w-en s-e -as ,omm0nion
wit- di4ine 4irt0e and be,omes di4ine* s-e is ,arried into anot-er and
better 1la,e* w-i,- is 1er2e,t in -oliness) b0t w-en s-e -as ,omm0nion
wit- e4il* t-en s-e also ,-an.es t-e Pla,e o2 -er li2e/
#-is is t-e j0sti,e o2 t-e &ods w-o in-abit Olym10s/
O yo0t- or yo0n. man* w-o 2an,y t-at yo0 are ne.le,ted by t-e &ods*
6now t-at i2 yo0 be,ome worse yo0 s-all .o to t-e worse so0ls* or i2
better to t-e better* and in e4ery s0,,ession o2 li2e and deat- yo0
will do and s022er w-at li6e may 2itly s022er at t-e -ands o2 li6e/
#-is is t-e j0sti,e o2 -ea4en* w-i,- neit-er yo0 nor any ot-er
0n2ort0nate will e4er .lory in es,a1in.* and w-i,- t-e ordainin.
1owers -a4e s1e,ially ordained) ta6e .ood -eed t-ereo2* 2or it will be
s0re to ta6e -eed o2 yo0/ I2 yo0 say(9I am small and will ,ree1 into
t-e de1t-s o2 t-e eart-* or I am -i.- and will 2ly 01 to -ea4en* yo0
are not so small or so -i.- b0t t-at yo0 s-all 1ay t-e 2ittin.
1enalty* eit-er -ere or in t-e world below or in some still more
sa4a.e 1la,e w-it-er yo0 s-all be ,on4eyed/ #-is is also t-e
e:1lanation o2 t-e 2ate o2 t-ose w-om yo0 saw* w-o -ad done 0n-oly and
e4il deeds* and 2rom small be.innin.s -ad .rown .reat* and yo0 2an,ied
t-at 2rom bein. miserable t-ey -ad be,ome -a11y) and in t-eir a,tions*
as in a mirror* yo0 seemed to see t-e 0ni4ersal ne.le,t o2 t-e &ods*
not 6nowin. -ow t-ey ma6e all t-in.s wor6 to.et-er and ,ontrib0te to
t-e .reat w-ole/ And t-in6est t-o0* bold man* t-at t-o0 needest not to
6now t-is39-e w-o 6nows it not ,an ne4er 2orm any tr0e idea o2 t-e
-a11iness or 0n-a11iness o2 li2e or -old any rational dis,o0rse
res1e,tin. eit-er/ I2 Cleinias and t-is o0r re4erend ,om1any s0,,eed
in brin.in. to yo0 t-at yo0 6now not w-at yo0 say o2 t-e &ods* t-en
will &od -el1 yo0) b0t s-o0ld yo0 desire to -ear more* listen to
w-at we say to t-e t-ird o11onent* i2 yo0 -a4e any 0nderstandin.
w-atsoe4er/ "or I t-in6 t-at we -a4e s022i,iently 1ro4ed t-e e:isten,e
o2 t-e &ods* and t-at t-ey ,are 2or men(9#-e ot-er notion t-at t-ey
are a11eased by t-e wi,6ed* and ta6e .i2ts* is w-at we m0st not
,on,ede to any one* and w-at e4ery man s-o0ld dis1ro4e to t-e 0tmost
o2 -is 1ower/
Cle/ 8ery .ood) let 0s do as yo0 say/
At-/ Well* t-en* by t-e &ods t-emsel4es I ,onj0re yo0 to tell
me9i2 t-ey are to be 1ro1itiated* -ow are t-ey to be 1ro1itiated3
W-o are t-ey* and w-at is t-eir nat0re3 +0st t-ey not be at least
r0lers w-o -a4e to order 0n,easin.ly t-e w-ole -ea4en3
Cle/ #r0e/
At-/ And to w-at eart-ly r0lers ,an t-ey be ,om1ared* or w-o to
t-em3 $ow in t-e less ,an we 2ind an ima.e o2 t-e .reater3 Are t-ey
,-arioteers o2 ,ontendin. 1airs o2 steeds* or 1ilots o2 4essels3
Per-a1s t-ey mi.-t be ,om1ared to t-e .enerals o2 armies* or t-ey
mi.-t be li6ened to 1-ysi,ians 1ro4idin. a.ainst t-e diseases w-i,-
ma6e war 01on t-e body* or to -0sbandmen obser4in. an:io0sly t-e
e22e,ts o2 t-e seasons on t-e .rowt- o2 1lants) or I 1er-a1s* to
s-e1-erds o2 2lo,6s/ "or as we a,6nowled.e t-e world to be 20ll o2
many .oods and also o2 e4ils* and o2 more e4ils t-an .oods* t-ere
is* as we a22irm* an immortal ,on2li,t .oin. on amon. 0s* w-i,-
re;0ires mar4ello0s wat,-20lness) and in t-at ,on2li,t t-e &ods and
demi.ods are o0r allies* and we are t-eir 1ro1erty/ Inj0sti,e and
insolen,e and 2olly are t-e destr0,tion o2 0s* and j0sti,e and
tem1eran,e and wisdom are o0r sal4ation) and t-e 1la,e o2 t-ese latter
is in t-e li2e o2 t-e &ods* alt-o0.- some 4esti.e o2 t-em may
o,,asionally be dis,erned amon. man6ind/ B0t 01on t-is eart- we 6now
t-at t-ere dwell so0ls 1ossessin. an 0nj0st s1irit* w-o may be
,om1ared to br0te animals* w-i,- 2awn 01on t-eir 6ee1ers* w-et-er do.s
or s-e1-erds* or t-e best and most 1er2e,t masters) 2or t-ey in li6e
manner* as t-e 4oi,es o2 t-e wi,6ed de,lare* 1re4ail by 2lattery and
1rayers and in,antations* and are allowed to ma6e t-eir .ains wit-
im10nity/ And t-is sin* w-i,- is termed dis-onesty* is an e4il o2
t-e same 6ind as w-at is termed disease in li4in. bodies or 1estilen,e
in years or seasons o2 t-e year* and in ,ities and .o4ernments -as
anot-er name* w-i,- is inj0sti,e/
Cle/ @0ite tr0e/
At-/ W-at else ,an -e say w-o de,lares t-at t-e &ods are always
lenient to t-e doers o2 0nj0st a,ts* i2 t-ey di4ide t-e s1oil wit-
t-em3 As i2 wol4es were to toss a 1ortion o2 t-eir 1rey to t-e do.s*
and t-ey* molli2ied by t-e .i2t* s022ered t-em to tear t-e 2lo,6s/
+0st not -e w-o maintains t-at t-e &ods ,an be 1ro1itiated ar.0e t-0s3
Cle/ Pre,isely so/
At-/ And to w-i,- o2 t-e abo4e9mentioned ,lasses o2 .0ardians
wo0ld any man ,om1are t-e &ods wit-o0t abs0rdity3 Will -e say t-at
t-ey are li6e 1ilots* w-o are t-emsel4es t0rned away 2rom t-eir d0ty
by Alibations o2 wine and t-e sa4o0r o2 2at*A and at last o4ert0rn
bot- s-i1 and sailors3
Cle/ Ass0redly not/
At-/ And s0rely t-ey are not li6e ,-arioteers w-o are bribed to .i4e
01 t-e 4i,tory to ot-er ,-ariots3
Cle/ #-at wo0ld be a 2ear20l ima.e o2 t-e &ods/
At-/ !or are t-ey li6e .enerals* or 1-ysi,ians* or -0sbandmen* or
s-e1-erds) and no one wo0ld ,om1are t-em to do.s w-o -a4e silen,ed
by wol4es/
Cle/ A t-in. not to be s1o6en o2/
At-/ And are not all t-e &ods t-e ,-ie2est o2 all .0ardians* and
do t-ey not .0ard o0r -i.-est interests3
Cle/ 7es) t-e ,-ie2est/
At-/ And s-all we say t-at t-ose w-o .0ard o0r noblest interests*
and are t-e best o2 .0ardians* are in2erior in 4irt0e to do.s* and
to men e4en o2 moderate e:,ellen,e* w-o wo0ld ne4er betray j0sti,e 2or
t-e sa6e o2 .i2ts w-i,- 0nj0st men im1io0sly o22er t-em3
Cle/ Certainly not( nor is s0,- a notion to be end0red* and -e w-o
-olds t-is o1inion may be 2airly sin.led o0t and ,-ara,teri<ed as o2
all im1io0s men t-e wi,6edest and most im1io0s/
At-/ #-en are t-e t-ree assertions9t-at t-e &ods e:ist* and t-at
t-ey ta6e ,are o2 men* and t-at t-ey ,an ne4er be 1ers0aded to do
inj0sti,e* now s022i,iently demonstrated3 +ay we say t-at t-ey are3
Cle/ 7o0 -a4e o0r entire assent to yo0r words/
At-/ I -a4e s1o6en wit- 4e-emen,e be,a0se I am <ealo0s a.ainst
e4il men) and I will tell dear Cleinias* w-y I am so/ I wo0ld not -a4e
t-e wi,6ed t-in6 t-at* -a4in. t-e s01eriority in ar.0ment* t-ey may do
as t-ey 1lease and a,t a,,ordin. to t-eir 4ario0s ima.inations abo0t
t-e &ods) and t-is <eal -as led me to s1ea6 too 4e-emently) b0t i2
we -a4e at all s0,,eeded in 1ers0adin. t-e men to -ate t-emsel4es
and lo4e t-eir o11osites* t-e 1rel0de o2 o0r laws abo0t im1iety will
not -a4e been s1o6en in 4ain/
Cle/ So let 0s -o1e) and e4en i2 we -a4e 2ailed* t-e style o2 o0r
ar.0ment will not dis,redit t-e law.i4er/
At-/ A2ter t-e 1rel0de s-all 2ollow a dis,o0rse* w-i,- will be t-e
inter1reter o2 t-e law) t-is s-all 1ro,laim to all im1io0s
1ersons(9t-at t-ey m0st de1art 2rom t-eir ways and .o o4er to t-e
1io0s/ And to t-ose w-o disobey* let t-e law abo0t im1iety be as
2ollows(9I2 a man is .0ilty o2 any im1iety in word or deed* any one
w-o -a11ens to 1resent s-all .i4e in2ormation to t-e ma.istrates* in
aid o2 t-e law) and let t-e ma.istrates w-o/ 2irst re,ei4e t-e
in2ormation brin. -im be2ore t-e a11ointed ,o0rt a,,ordin. to t-e law)
and i2 a ma.istrate* a2ter re,ei4in. in2ormation* re20ses to a,t* -e
s-all be tried 2or im1iety at t-e instan,e o2 any one w-o is willin.
to 4indi,ate t-e laws) and i2 any one be ,ast* t-e ,o0rt s-all
estimate t-e 10nis-ment o2 ea,- a,t o2 im1iety) and let all s0,-
,riminals be im1risoned/ #-ere s-all be t-ree 1risons in t-e state(
t-e 2irst o2 t-em is to be t-e ,ommon 1rison in t-e nei.-bo0r-ood o2
t-e a.ora 2or t-e sa2e96ee1in. o2 t-e .enerality o2 o22enders) anot-er
is to be in t-e nei.-bo0r-ood o2 t-e no,t0rnal ,o0n,il* and is to be
,alled t-e A$o0se o2 e2ormationA) anot-er* to be sit0ated in some
wild and desolate re.ion in t-e ,entre o2 t-e ,o0ntry* s-all be ,alled
by some name e:1ressi4e o2 retrib0tion/ !ow* men 2all into im1iety
2rom t-ree ,a0ses* w-i,- -a4e been already mentioned* and 2rom ea,- o2
t-ese ,a0ses arise two sorts o2 im1iety* in all si:* w-i,- are wort-
distin.0is-in.* and s-o0ld not all -a4e t-e same 10nis-ment/ "or -e
w-o does not belie4e in &ods* and yet -as a ri.-teo0s nat0re* -ates
t-e wi,6ed and disli6es and re20ses to do inj0sti,e* and a4oids
0nri.-teo0s men* and lo4es t-e ri.-teo0s/ B0t t-ey w-o besides
belie4in. t-at t-e world is de4oid o2 &ods are intem1erate* and -a4e
at t-e same time .ood memories and ;0i,6 wits* are worse) alt-o0.-
bot- o2 t-em are 0nbelie4ers* m0,- less inj0ry is done by t-e one t-an
by t-e ot-er/ #-e one may tal6 loosely abo0t t-e &ods and abo0t
sa,ri2i,es and oat-s* and 1er-a1s by la0.-in. at ot-er men -e may ma6e
t-em li6e -imsel2* i2 -e be not 10nis-ed/ B0t t-e ot-er w-o -olds
t-e same o1inions and is ,alled a ,le4er man* is 20ll o2 strata.em and
de,eit9men o2 t-is ,lass deal in 1ro1-e,y and j0..lery o2 all 6inds*
and o0t o2 t-eir ran6s sometimes ,ome tyrants and dema.o.0es and
.enerals and -iero1-ants o2 1ri4ate mysteries and t-e So1-ists* as
t-ey are termed* wit- t-eir in.enio0s de4i,es/ #-ere are many 6inds o2
0nbelie4ers* b0t two only 2or w-om le.islation is re;0ired) one t-e
-y1o,riti,al sort* w-ose ,rime is deser4in. o2 deat- many times
o4er* w-ile t-e ot-er needs only bonds and admonition/ In li6e
manner also t-e notion t-at t-e &ods ta6e no t-o0.-t o2 men 1rod0,es
two ot-er sorts o2 ,rimes* and t-e notion t-at t-ey may be 1ro1itiated
1rod0,es two more/ Ass0min. t-ese di4isions* let t-ose w-o -a4e been
made w-at t-ey are only 2rom want o2 0nderstandin.* and not 2rom
mali,e or an e4il nat0re* be 1la,ed by t-e j0d.e in t-e $o0se o2
e2ormation* and ordered to s022er im1risonment d0rin. a 1eriod o2 not
less t-an 2i4e years/ And in t-e meantime let t-em -a4e no inter,o0rse
wit- t-e ot-er ,iti<ens* e:,e1t wit- members o2 t-e no,t0rnal ,o0n,il*
and wit- t-em let t-em ,on4erse wit- a 4iew to t-e im1ro4ement o2
t-eir so0l=s -ealt-/ And w-en t-e time o2 t-eir im1risonment -as
e:1ired* i2 any o2 t-em be o2 so0nd mind let -im be restored to sane
,om1any* b0t i2 not* and i2 -e be ,ondemned a se,ond time* let -im
be 10nis-ed wit- deat-/ As to t-at ,lass o2 monstro0s nat0res w-o
not only belie4e t-at t-ere are no &ods* or t-at t-ey are ne.li.ent*
or to be 1ro1itiated* b0t in ,ontem1t o2 man6ind ,onj0re t-e so0ls
o2 t-e li4in. and say t-at t-ey ,an ,onj0re t-e dead and 1romise to
,-arm t-e &ods wit- sa,ri2i,es and 1rayers* and will 0tterly o4ert-row
indi4id0als and w-ole -o0ses and states 2or t-e sa6e o2 money9let
-im w-o is .0ilty o2 any o2 t-ese t-in.s be ,ondemned by t-e ,o0rt
to be bo0nd a,,ordin. to law in t-e 1rison w-i,- is in t-e ,entre o2
t-e land* and let no 2reeman e4er a11roa,- -im* b0t let -im re,ei4e
t-e rations o2 2ood a11ointed by t-e .0ardians o2 t-e law 2rom t-e
-ands o2 t-e 10bli, sla4es) and w-en -e is dead let -im be ,ast beyond
t-e borders 0nb0ried* and i2 any 2reeman assist in b0ryin. -im* let
-im 1ay t-e 1enalty o2 im1iety to any one w-o is willin. to brin. a
s0it a.ainst -im/ B0t i2 -e lea4es be-ind -im ,-ildren w-o are 2it
to be ,iti<ens* let t-e .0ardians o2 or1-ans ta6e ,are o2 t-em* j0st
as t-ey wo0ld o2 any ot-er or1-ans* 2rom t-e day on w-i,- t-eir 2at-er
is ,on4i,ted/
In all t-ese ,ases t-ere s-o0ld be one law* w-i,- will ma6e men in
.eneral less liable to trans.ress in word or deed* and less 2oolis-*
be,a0se t-ey will not be allowed to 1ra,tise reli.io0s rites
,ontrary to law/ And let t-is be t-e sim1le 2orm o2 t-e law(9!o man
s-all -a4e sa,red rites in a 1ri4ate -o0se/ W-en -e wo0ld sa,ri2i,e*
let -im .o to t-e tem1les and -and o4er -is o22erin.s to t-e 1riests
and 1riestesses* w-o see to t-e san,tity o2 s0,- t-in.s* and let -im
1ray -imsel2* and let any one w-o 1leases join wit- -im in 1rayer/ #-e
reason o2 t-is is as 2ollows(9&ods and tem1les are not easily
instit0ted* and to establis- t-em ri.-tly is t-e wor6 o2 a mi.-ty
intelle,t/ And women es1e,ially* and men too* w-en t-ey are si,6 or in
dan.er* or in any sort o2 di22i,0lty* or a.ain on t-eir re,ei4in.
any .ood 2ort0ne* -a4e a way o2 ,onse,ratin. t-e o,,asion* 4owin.
sa,ri2i,es* and 1romisin. s-rines to &ods* demi.ods* and sons o2 &ods)
and w-en t-ey are awa6ened by terrible a11aritions and dreams or
remember 4isions* t-ey 2ind in altars and tem1les t-e remedies o2
t-em* and will 2ill e4ery -o0se and 4illa.e wit- t-em* 1la,in. t-em in
t-e o1en air* or w-ere4er t-ey may -a4e -ad s0,- 4isions) and wit- a
4iew to all t-ese ,ases we s-o0ld obey t-e law/ #-e law -as also
re.ard to t-e im1io0s* and wo0ld not -a4e t-em 2an,y t-at by t-e
se,ret 1er2orman,e o2 t-ese a,tions9by raisin. tem1les and by b0ildin.
altars in 1ri4ate -o0ses* t-ey ,an 1ro1itiate t-e &od se,retly wit-
sa,ri2i,es and 1rayers* w-ile t-ey are really m0lti1lyin. t-eir ,rimes
in2initely* brin.in. .0ilt 2rom -ea4en 01on t-emsel4es* and also
01on t-ose w-o 1ermit t-em* and w-o are better men t-an t-ey are)
and t-e ,onse;0en,e is t-at t-e w-ole state rea1s t-e 2r0it o2 t-eir
im1iety* w-i,-* in a ,ertain sense* is deser4ed/ Ass0redly &od will
not blame t-e le.islator* w-o will ena,t t-e 2ollowin. law(9!o one
s-all 1ossess s-rines o2 t-e &ods in 1ri4ate -o0ses* and -e w-o is
2o0nd to 1ossess t-em* and 1er2orm any sa,red rites not 10bli,ly
a0t-ori<ed9s011osin. t-e o22ender to be some man or woman w-o is not
.0ilty o2 any ot-er .reat and im1io0s ,rime9s-all be in2ormed
a.ainst by -im w-o is a,;0ainted wit- t-e 2a,t* w-i,- s-all be
anno0n,ed by -im to t-e .0ardians o2 t-e law) and let t-em iss0e
orders t-at -e or s-e s-all ,arry away t-eir 1ri4ate rites to t-e
10bli, tem1les* and i2 t-ey do not 1ers0ade t-em* let t-em in2li,t a
1enalty on t-em 0ntil t-ey ,om1ly/ And i2 a 1erson be 1ro4en .0ilty o2
im1iety* not merely 2rom ,-ildis- le4ity* b0t s0,- as .rown901 men may
be .0ilty o2* w-et-er -e -a4e sa,ri2i,ed 10bli,ly or 1ri4ately to
any &ods* let -im be 10nis-ed wit- deat-* 2or -is sa,ri2i,e is im10re/
W-et-er t-e deed -as been done in earnest* or only 2rom ,-ildis-
le4ity* let t-e .0ardians o2 t-e law determine* be2ore t-ey brin.
t-e matter into ,o0rt and 1rose,0te t-e o22ender 2or im1iety/
BOOK EI
In t-e ne:t 1la,e* dealin.s between man and man re;0ire to be
s0itably re.0lated/ #-e 1rin,i1le o2 t-em is 4ery sim1le(9#-o0 s-alt
not* i2 t-o0 ,anst -el1* to0,- t-at w-i,- is mine* or remo4e t-e least
t-in. w-i,- belon.s to me wit-o0t my ,onsent) and may I be o2 a
so0nd mind* and do to ot-ers as I wo0ld t-at t-ey s-o0ld do to me/
"irst* let 0s s1ea6 o2 treas0re tro4e(9+ay I ne4er 1ray t-e &ods to
2ind t-e -idden treas0re* w-i,- anot-er -as laid 01 2or -imsel2 and
-is 2amily* -e not bein. one o2 my an,estors* nor li2t* i2 I s-o0ld
2ind* s0,- a treas0re/ And may I ne4er -a4e any dealin.s wit- t-ose
w-o are ,alled di4iners* and w-o in any way or manner ,o0nsel me to
ta6e 01 t-e de1osit entr0sted to t-e eart-* 2or I s-o0ld not .ain so
m0,- in t-e in,rease o2 my 1ossessions* i2 I ta6e 01 t-e 1ri<e* as I
s-o0ld .row in j0sti,e and 4irt0e o2 so0l* i2 I abstain) and t-is will
be a better 1ossession to me t-an t-e ot-er in a better 1art o2
mysel2) 2or t-e 1ossession o2 j0sti,e in t-e so0l is 1re2erable to t-e
1ossession o2 wealt-/ And o2 many t-in.s it is well said9A+o4e not t-e
immo4ables*A and t-is may be re.arded as one o2 t-em/ And we s-all
do well to belie4e t-e ,ommon tradition w-i,- says t-at s0,- deeds
1re4ent a man 2rom -a4in. a 2amily/ !ow as to -im w-o is ,areless
abo0t -a4in. ,-ildren and re.ardless o2 t-e le.islator* ta6in. 01 t-at
w-i,- neit-er -e de1osited* nor any an,estor o2 -is* wit-o0t t-e
,onsent o2 t-e de1ositor* 4iolatin. t-e sim1lest and noblest o2 laws
w-i,- was t-e ena,tment o2 no mean man(9A#a6e not 01 t-at w-i,- was
not laid down by t-eeA9o2 -im* I say* w-o des1ises t-ese two
le.islators* and ta6es 01* not small matter w-i,- -e -as not
de1osited* b0t 1er-a1s a .reat -ea1 o2 treas0re* w-at -e o0.-t to
s022er at t-e -ands o2 t-e &ods* &od only 6nows) b0t I wo0ld -a4e
t-e 2irst 1erson w-o sees -im .o and tell t-e wardens o2 t-e ,ity*
i2 t-e o,,0rren,e -as ta6en 1la,e in t-e ,ity* or i2 t-e o,,0rren,e
-as ta6en 1la,e in t-e a.ora -e s-all tell t-e wardens o2 t-e a.ora*
or i2 in t-e ,o0ntry -e s-all tell t-e wardens o2 t-e ,o0ntry and
t-eir ,ommanders/ W-en in2ormation -as been re,ei4ed t-e ,ity s-all
send to %el1-i* and* w-ate4er t-e &od answers abo0t t-e money and
t-e remo4er o2 t-e money* t-at t-e ,ity s-all do in obedien,e to t-e
ora,le) t-e in2ormer* i2 -e be a 2reeman* s-all -a4e t-e -ono0r o2
doin. ri.-tly* and -e w-o in2orms not* t-e dis-ono0r o2 doin. wron.ly)
and i2 -e be a sla4e w-o .i4es in2ormation* let -im be 2reed* as -e
o0.-t to be* by t-e state* w-i,- s-all .i4e -is master t-e 1ri,e o2
-im) b0t i2 -e do not in2orm -e s-all be 10nis-ed wit- deat-/ !e:t
in order s-all 2ollow a similar law* w-i,- s-all a11ly e;0ally to
matters .reat and small(9I2 a man -a11ens to lea4e be-ind -im some
1art o2 -is 1ro1erty* w-et-er intentionally or 0nintentionally* let
-im w-o may ,ome 01on t-e le2t 1ro1erty s022er it to remain*
re2le,tin. t-at s0,- t-in.s are 0nder t-e 1rote,tion o2 t-e &oddess o2
ways* and are dedi,ated to -er by t-e law/ B0t i2 any one de2ies t-e
law* and ta6es t-e 1ro1erty -ome wit- -im* let -im* i2 t-e t-in. is o2
little wort-* and t-e man w-o ta6es it a sla4e* be beaten wit- many
stri1es by -im* bein. a 1erson o2 not less t-an t-irty years o2 a.e/
Or i2 -e be a 2reeman* in addition to bein. t-o0.-t a mean 1erson
and a des1iser o2 t-e laws* let -im 1ay ten times t-e 4al0e o2 t-e
treas0re w-i,- -e -as mo4ed to t-e lea4er/ And i2 some one a,,0ses
anot-er o2 -a4in. anyt-in. w-i,- belon.s to -im* w-et-er little or
m0,-* and t-e ot-er admits t-at -e -as t-is t-in.* b0t denies t-at t-e
1ro1erty in dis10te belon.s to ot-er* i2 t-e 1ro1erty be re.istered
wit- t-e ma.istrates a,,ordin. to law* t-e ,laimant s-all s0mmon t-e
1ossessor* w-o s-all brin. it be2ore t-e ma.istrates) and w-en it is
bro0.-t into ,o0rt* i2 it be re.istered in t-e 10bli, re.isters* to
w-i,- o2 t-e liti.ants it belon.ed* let -im ta6e it and .o -is way/ Or
i2 t-e 1ro1erty be re.istered as belon.in. to some one w-o is not
1resent* w-oe4er will o22er s022i,ient s0rety on be-al2 o2 t-e
absent 1erson t-at -e will .i4e it 01 to -im* s-all ta6e it away as
t-e re1resentati4e o2 t-e ot-er/ B0t i2 t-e 1ro1erty w-i,- is
de1osited be not re.istered wit- t-e ma.istrates* let it remain
0ntil t-e time o2 trial wit- t-ree o2 t-e eldest o2 t-e ma.istrates)
and i2 it be an animal w-i,- is de1osited* t-en -e w-o loses t-e
s0it s-all 1ay t-e ma.istrates 2or its 6ee1* and t-ey s-all
determine t-e ,a0se wit-in t-ree days/
Any one w-o is o2 so0nd mind may arrest -is own sla4e* and do wit-
-im w-ate4er -e will o2 s0,- t-in.s as are law20l) and -e may arrest
t-e r0naway sla4e o2 any o2 -is 2riends or 6indred wit- a 4iew to
-is sa2e96ee1in./ And i2 any one ta6es away -im w-o is bein. ,arried
o22 as a sla4e* intendin. to liberate -im* -e w-o is ,arryin. -im
o22 s-all let -im .o) b0t -e w-o ta6es -im away s-all .i4e t-ree
s022i,ient s0reties) and i2 -e .i4e t-em* and not wit-o0t .i4in. t-em*
-e may ta6e -im away* b0t i2 -e ta6e -im away a2ter any ot-er manner
-e s-all be deemed .0ilty o2 4iolen,e* and bein. ,on4i,ted s-all 1ay
as a 1enalty do0ble t-e amo0nt o2 t-e dama.es ,laimed to -im w-o -as
been de1ri4ed o2 t-e sla4e/ Any man may also ,arry o22 a 2reedman*
i2 -e do not 1ay res1e,t or s022i,ient res1e,t to -im w-o 2reed -im/
!ow t-e res1e,t s-all be* t-at t-e 2reedman .o t-ree times in t-e
mont- to t-e -eart- o2 t-e 1erson w-o 2reed -im and o22er to do
w-ate4er -e o0.-t* so 2ar as -e ,an) and -e s-all a.ree to ma6e s0,- a
marria.e as -is 2ormer master a11ro4es/ $e s-all not be 1ermitted to
-a4e more 1ro1erty t-an -e w-o .a4e -im liberty* and w-at more -e
-as s-all belon. to -is master/ #-e 2reedman s-all not remain in t-e
state more t-an twenty years* b0t li6e ot-er 2orei.ners s-all .o away*
ta6in. -is entire 1ro1erty wit- -im* 0nless -e -as t-e ,onsent o2
t-e ma.istrates and o2 -is 2ormer master to remain/ I2 a 2reedman or
any ot-er stran.er -as a 1ro1erty .reater t-an t-e ,ens0s o2 t-e t-ird
,lass* at t-e e:1iration/ o2 t-irty days 2rom t-e day on w-i,- t-is
,omes to 1ass* -e s-all ta6e t-at w-i,- is -is and .o -is way* and
in t-is ,ase -e s-all not be allowed to remain any lon.er by t-e
ma.istrates/ And i2 any one disobeys t-is re.0lation* and is bro0.-t
into ,o0rt and ,on4i,ted* -e s-all be 10nis-ed wit- deat-* -is
1ro1erty s-all be ,on2is,ated/ S0its abo0t t-ese matters s-all ta6e
1la,e be2ore t-e tribes* 0nless t-e 1lainti22 and de2endant -a4e .ot
rid o2 t-e a,,0sation eit-er be2ore t-eir nei.-bo0rs or be2ore
j0d.es ,-osen by t-em/ I2 a man lay ,laim to any animal or anyt-in.
else w-i,- -e de,lares to be -is* let t-e 1ossessor re2er to t-e
seller or to some -onest and tr0stwort-y 1erson* w-o -as .i4en* or
in some le.itimate way made o4er t-e 1ro1erty to -im) i2 -e be a
,iti<en or a meti,* sojo0rnin. in t-e ,ity* wit-in t-irty days* or* i2
t-e 1ro1erty -a4e been deli4ered to -im by a stran.er* wit-in 2i4e
mont-s* o2 w-i,- t-e middle mont- s-all in,l0de t-e s0mmer solsti,e/
W-en .oods are e:,-an.ed by sellin. and b0yin.* a man s-all deli4er
t-em* and re,ei4e t-e 1ri,e o2 t-em* at a 2i:ed 1la,e in t-e a.ora*
and -a4e done wit- t-e matter) b0t -e s-all not b0y or sell anyw-ere
else* nor .i4e ,redit/ And i2 in any ot-er manner or in any ot-er
1la,e t-ere be an e:,-an.e o2 one t-in. 2or anot-er* and t-e seller
.i4e ,redit to t-e man w-o b0ys 2ram -im* -e m0st do t-is on t-e
0nderstandin. t-at t-e law .i4es no 1rote,tion in ,ases o2 t-in.s sold
not in a,,ordan,e wit- t-ese re.0lations/ A.ain* as to
,ontrib0tions* any man w-o li6es may .o abo0t ,olle,tin. ,ontrib0tions
as a 2riend amon. 2riends* b0t i2 any di22eren,e arises abo0t t-e
,olle,tion* -e is to a,t on t-e 0nderstandin. t-at t-e law .i4es no
1rote,tion in s0,- ,ases/ $e w-o sells anyt-in. abo4e t-e 4al0e o2
2i2ty dra,-mas s-all be re;0ired to remain in t-e ,ity 2or ten days*
and t-e 10r,-aser s-all be in2ormed o2 t-e -o0se o2 t-e seller* wit- a
4iew to t-e sort o2 ,-ar.es w-i,- are a1t to arise in s0,- ,ases*
and t-e restit0tions w-i,- t-e law allows/ And let le.al restit0tion
be on t-is wise(9I2 a man sells a sla4e w-o is in a ,ons0m1tion* or
w-o -as t-e disease o2 t-e stone* or o2 stran.0ry* or e1ile1sy* or
some ot-er tedio0s and in,0rable disorder o2 body or mind* w-i,- is
not dis,ernible to t-e ordinary man* i2 t-e 10r,-aser be a 1-ysi,ian
or trainer* -e s-all -a4e no ri.-t o2 restit0tion) nor s-all t-ere
be any ri.-t o2 restit0tion i2 t-e seller -as told t-e tr0t-
be2ore-and to t-e b0yer/ B0t i2 a s6illed 1erson sells to anot-er
w-o is not s6illed* let t-e b0yer a11eal 2or restit0tion wit-in si:
mont-s* e:,e1t in t-e ,ase o2 e1ile1sy* and t-en t-e a11eal may be
made wit-in a year/ #-e ,a0se s-all be determined by s0,- 1-ysi,ians
as t-e 1arties may a.ree to ,-oose) and t-e de2endant* i2 -e lose
t-e s0it* s-all 1ay do0ble t-e 1ri,e at w-i,- -e sold/ I2 a 1ri4ate
1erson sell to anot-er 1ri4ate 1erson* -e s-all -a4e t-e ri.-t o2
restit0tion* and t-e de,ision s-all be .i4en as be2ore* b0t t-e
de2endant* i2 -e be ,ast* s-all only 1ay ba,6 t-e 1ri,e o2 t-e
sla4e/ I2 a 1erson sells a -omi,ide to anot-er* and t-ey bot- 6now
o2 t-e 2a,t* let t-ere be no restit0tion in s0,- a ,ase* b0t i2 -e
do not 6now o2 t-e 2a,t* t-ere s-all be a ri.-t o2 restit0tion*
w-ene4er t-e b0yer ma6es t-e dis,o4ery) and t-e de,ision s-all rest
wit- t-e 2i4e yo0n.est .0ardians o2 t-e law* and i2 t-e de,ision be
t-at t-e seller was ,o.nisant t-e 2a,t* -e s-all 10ri2y t-e -o0se o2
t-e 10r,-aser* a,,ordin. to t-e law o2 t-e inter1reters* and s-all 1ay
ba,6 t-ree times t-e 10r,-ase9money/
I2 man e:,-an.es eit-er money 2or money* or anyt-in. w-ate4er 2or
anyt-in. else* eit-er wit- or wit-o0t li2e* let -im .i4e and re,ei4e
t-em .en0ine and 0nad0lterated* in a,,ordan,e wit- t-e law/ And let 0s
-a4e a 1rel0de abo0t all t-is sort o2 ro.0ery* li6e t-e 1rel0des o2
o0r ot-er laws/ E4ery man s-o0ld re.ard ad0lteration as o2 one and t-e
same ,lass wit- 2alse-ood and de,eit* ,on,ernin. w-i,- t-e many are
too 2ond o2 sayin. t-at at 1ro1er times and 1la,es t-e 1ra,ti,e may
o2ten be ri.-t/ B0t t-ey lea4e t-e o,,asion* and t-e w-en* and t-e
w-ere* 0nde2ined and 0nsettled* and 2rom t-is want o2 de2initeness
in t-eir lan.0a.e t-ey do a .reat deal o2 -arm to t-emsel4es and to
ot-ers/ !ow a le.islator o0.-t not to lea4e t-e matter 0ndetermined)
-e o0.-t to 1res,ribe some limit* eit-er .reater or less/ Let t-is
be t-e r0le 1res,ribed(9!o one s-all ,all t-e &ods to witness* w-en -e
says or does anyt-in. 2alse or de,eit20l or dis-onest* 0nless -e wo0ld
be t-e most -ate20l o2 man6ind to t-em/ And -e is most -ate20l to t-em
ta6es a 2alse oat-* and 1ays no -eed to t-e &ods) and in t-e ne:t
de.ree* -e w-o tells a 2alse-ood in t-e 1resen,e o2 -is s01eriors/ !ow
better men are t-e s01eriors o2 worse men* and in .eneral elders are
t-e s01eriors o2 t-e yo0n.) w-ere2ore also 1arents are t-e s01eriors
o2 t-eir o22 s1rin.* and men o2 women and ,-ildren* and r0lers o2
t-eir s0bje,ts) 2or all men o0.-t to re4eren,e any one w-o is in any
1osition o2 a0t-ority* and es1e,ially t-ose w-o are in state
o22i,es/ And t-is is t-e reason w-y I -a4e s1o6en o2 t-ese matters/
"or e4ery one w-o is .0ilty o2 ad0lteration in t-e a.ora tells a
2alse-ood* and de,ei4es* and w-en -e in4o6es t-e &ods* a,,ordin. to
t-e ,0stoms and ,a0tions o2 t-e wardens o2 t-e a.ora* -e does b0t
swear wit-o0t any res1e,t 2or &od or man/ Certainly* it is an
e:,ellent r0le not li.-tly to de2ile t-e names o2 t-e &ods* a2ter
t-e 2as-ion o2 men in .eneral* w-o ,are little abo0t 1iety and
10rity in t-eir reli.io0s a,tions/ B0t i2 a man will not ,on2orm to
t-is r0le* let t-e law be as 2ollows(9$e w-o sells anyt-in. in t-e
a.ora s-all not as6 two 1ri,es 2or t-at w-i,- -e sells* b0t -e s-all
as6 one 1ri,e* and i2 -e do not obtain t-is* -e s-all ta6e away -is
.oods) and on t-at day -e s-all not 4al0e t-em eit-er at more or less)
and t-ere s-all be no 1raisin. o2 any .oods* or oat- ta6en abo0t t-em/
I2 a 1erson disobeys t-is ,ommand* any ,iti<en w-o is 1resent* not
bein. less t-an t-irty years o2 a.e* may wit- im10nity ,-astise and
beat t-e swearer* b0t i2 instead o2 obeyin. t-e laws -e ta6es no -eed*
-e s-all be liable to t-e ,-ar.e o2 -a4in. betrayed t-em/ I2 a man
sells any ad0lterated .oods and will not obey t-ese re.0lations* -e
w-o 6nows and ,an 1ro4e t-e 2a,t* and does 1ro4e it in t-e 1resen,e o2
t-e ma.istrates* i2 -e be a sla4e or a meti,* s-all -a4e t-e
ad0lterated .oods) b0t i2 -e be a ,iti<en* and do not 10rs0e t-e
,-ar.e* -e s-all be ,alled a ro.0e* and deemed to -a4e robbed t-e &ods
o2 t-e a.ora) or i2 -e 1ro4es t-e ,-ar.e* -e s-all dedi,ate t-e
.oods to t-e &ods o2 t-e a.ora/ $e w-o is 1ro4ed to -a4e sold any
ad0lterated .oods* in addition to losin. t-e .oods t-emsel4es* s-all
be beaten wit- stri1es9a stri1e 2or a dra,-ma* a,,ordin. to t-e
1ri,e o2 t-e .oods) and t-e -erald s-all 1ro,laim in t-e a.ora t-e
o22en,e 2or w-i,- -e is .oin. to be beaten/ #-e warden o2 t-e a.ora
and t-e .0ardians o2 t-e law s-all obtain in2ormation 2rom e:1erien,ed
1ersons abo0t t-e ro.0eries and ad0lterations o2 t-e sellers* and
s-all write 01 w-at t-e seller o0.-t and o0.-t not to do in ea,- ,ase)
and let t-em ins,ribe t-eir laws on a ,ol0mn in 2ront o2 t-e ,o0rt
o2 t-e wardens o2 t-e a.ora* t-at t-ey may be ,lear instr0,tors o2
t-ose w-o -a4e b0siness in t-e a.ora/ Eno0.- -as been said in w-at -as
1re,eded abo0t t-e wardens o2 t-e ,ity* and i2 anyt-in. seems to be
wantin.* let t-em ,omm0ni,ate wit- t-e .0ardians o2 t-e law* and write
down t-e omission* and 1la,e on a ,ol0mn in t-e ,o0rt o2 t-e wardens
o2 t-e ,ity t-e 1rimary and se,ondary re.0lations w-i,- are laid
down 2or t-em abo0t t-eir o22i,e/
A2ter t-e 1ra,ti,es o2 ad0lteration nat0rally 2ollow t-e 1ra,ti,es
o2 retail trade/ Con,ernin. t-ese* we will 2irst o2 all .i4e a word o2
,o0nsel and reason* and t-e law s-all ,ome a2terwards/ etail trade in
a ,ity is not by nat0re intended to do any -arm* b0t ;0ite t-e
,ontrary) 2or is not -e a bene2a,tor w-o red0,es t-e ine;0alities
and in,ommens0rabilities o2 .oods to e;0ality and ,ommon meas0re3
And t-is is w-at t-e 1ower o2 money a,,om1lis-es* and t-e mer,-ant may
be said to be a11ointed 2or t-is 10r1ose/ #-e -irelin. and t-e
ta4ern96ee1er* and many ot-er o,,01ations* some o2 t-em more and
ot-ers less seemly9ali6e -a4e t-is obje,t)9t-ey see6 to satis2y o0r
needs and e;0ali<e o0r 1ossessions/ Let 0s t-en endea4o0r to see
w-at -as bro0.-t retail trade into ill9odo0r* and w-erein* lies t-e
dis-ono0r and 0nseemliness o2 it* in order t-at i2 not entirely* we
may yet 1artially* ,0re t-e e4il by le.islation/ #o e22e,t t-is is
no easy matter* and re;0ires a .reat deal o2 4irt0e/
Cleinias/ W-at do yo0 mean3
At-enian Stran.er/ %ear Cleinias* t-e ,lass o2 men is small9t-ey
m0st -a4e been rarely .i2ted by nat0re* and trained by
ed0,ation9w-o* w-en assailed by wants and desires* are able to -old
o0t and obser4e moderation* and w-en t-ey mi.-t ma6e a .reat deal o2
money are sober in t-eir wis-es* and 1re2er a moderate to a lar.e
.ain/ B0t t-e mass o2 man6ind are t-e 4ery o11osite( t-eir desires are
0nbo0nded* and w-en t-ey mi.-t .ain in moderation t-ey 1re2er .ains
wit-o0t limit) w-ere2ore all t-at relates to retail trade* and
mer,-andise* and t-e 6ee1in. o2 ta4erns* is deno0n,ed and n0mbered
amon. dis-ono0rable t-in.s/ "or i2 w-at I tr0st may ne4er be and
will not be* we were to ,om1el* i2 I may 4ent0re to say a ridi,0lo0s
t-in.* t-e best men e4eryw-ere to 6ee1 ta4erns 2or a time* or ,arry on
retail trade* or do anyt-in. o2 t-at sort) or i2* in ,onse;0en,e o2
some 2ate or ne,essity* t-e best women were ,om1elled to 2ollow
similar ,allin.s* t-en we s-o0ld 6now -ow a.reeable and 1leasant all
t-ese t-in.s are) and i2 all s0,- o,,01ations were mana.ed on
in,orr01t 1rin,i1les* t-ey wo0ld be -ono0red as we -ono0r a mot-er
or a n0rse/ B0t now t-at a man .oes to desert 1la,es and b0ilds bo0ses
w-i,- ,an only be rea,-ed be lon. jo0rneys* 2or t-e sa6e o2 retail
trade* and re,ei4es stran.ers w-o are in need at t-e wel,ome
restin.91la,e* and .i4es t-em 1ea,e and ,alm w-en t-ey are tossed by
t-e storm* or ,ool s-ade in t-e -eat) and t-en instead o2 be-a4in.
to t-em as 2riends* and s-owin. t-e d0ties o2 -os1itality to -is
.0ests* treats t-em as enemies and ,a1ti4es w-o are at -is mer,y*
and will not release t-em 0ntil t-ey -a4e 1aid t-e most 0nj0st*
abominable* and e:tortionate ransom9t-ese are t-e sort o2 1ra,ti,es*
and 2o0l e4ils t-ey are* w-i,- ,ast a re1roa,- 01on t-e s0,,o0r o2
ad4ersity/ And t-e le.islator o0.-t always to be de4isin. a remedy 2or
e4ils o2 t-is nat0re/ #-ere is an an,ient sayin.* w-i,- is also a tr0e
one9A#o 2i.-t a.ainst two o11onents is a di22i,0lt t-in.*A as is
seen in diseases and in many ot-er ,ases/ And in t-is ,ase also t-e
war is a.ainst two enemies9wealt- and 1o4erty) one o2 w-om ,orr01ts
t-e so0l o2 man wit- l0:0ry* w-ile t-e ot-er dri4es -im by 1ain into
0tter s-amelessness/ W-at remedy ,an a ,ity o2 sense 2ind a.ainst t-is
disease3 In t-e 2irst 1la,e* t-ey m0st -a4e as 2ew retail traders as
1ossible) and in t-e se,ond 1la,e* t-ey m0st assi.n t-e o,,01ation
to t-at ,lass o2 men w-ose ,orr01tion will be t-e least inj0ry to
t-e state) and in t-e t-ird 1la,e* t-ey m0st de4ise some way w-ereby
t-e 2ollowers o2 t-ese o,,01ations t-emsel4es will not readily 2all
into -abits o2 0nbridled s-amelessness and meanness/
A2ter t-is 1re2a,e let o0r law r0n as 2ollows* and may 2ort0ne
2a4o0r 0s(9!o landowner amon. t-e +a.netes* w-ose ,ity t-e &od is
restorin. and resettlin.9no one* t-at is* o2 t-e F0G0 2amilies*
s-all be,ome a retail trader eit-er 4ol0ntarily or in4ol0ntarily)
neit-er s-all -e be a mer,-ant* or do any ser4i,e 2or 1ri4ate
1ersons 0nless t-ey e;0ally ser4e -im* e:,e1t 2or -is 2at-er or -is
mot-er* and t-eir 2at-ers and mot-ers) and in .eneral 2or -is elders
w-o are 2reemen* and w-om -e ser4es as a 2reeman/ !ow it is
di22i,0lt to determine a,,0rately t-e t-in.s w-i,- are wort-y or
0nwort-y o2 a 2reeman* b0t let t-ose w-o -a4e obtained t-e 1ri<e o2
4irt0e .i4e j0d.ment abo0t t-em in a,,ordan,e wit- t-eir 2eelin.s o2
ri.-t and wron./ $e w-o in any way s-ares in t-e illiberality o2
retail trades may be indi,ted 2or dis-ono0rin. -is ra,e by any one w-o
li6es* be2ore t-ose w-o -a4e been j0d.ed to be t-e 2irst in 4irt0e)
and i2 -e a11ear to t-row dirt 01on -is 2at-er=s -o0se by an
0nwort-y o,,01ation* let -im be im1risoned 2or a year and abstain 2rom
t-at sort o2 t-in.) and i2 -e re1eat t-e o22en,e* 2or two years) and
e4ery time t-at -e is ,on4i,ted let t-e len.t- o2 -is im1risonment
be do0bled/ #-is s-all be t-e se,ond law(9$e w-o en.a.es in retail
trade m0st be eit-er a meti, or a stran.er/ And a t-ird law s-all
be(9In order t-at t-e retail trader w-o dwells in o0r ,ity may be as
.ood or as little bad as 1ossible* t-e .0ardians o2 t-e law s-all
remember t-at t-ey are not only .0ardians o2 t-ose w-o may be easily
wat,-ed and 1re4ented 2rom be,omin. lawless or bad* be,a0se t-ey are
wellborn and bred) b0t still more s-o0ld t-ey -a4e a wat,- o4er
t-ose w-o are o2 anot-er sort* and 2ollow 10rs0its w-i,- -a4e a 4ery
stron. tenden,y to ma6e men bad/ And* t-ere2ore* in res1e,t o2 t-e
m0lti2ario0s o,,01ations o2 retail trade* t-at is to say* in res1e,t
o2 s0,- o2 t-em as are allowed to remain* be,a0se t-ey seem to be
;0ite ne,essary in a state9abo0t t-ese t-e .0ardians o2 t-e law s-o0ld
meet and ta6e ,o0nsel wit- t-ose w-o -a4e e:1erien,e o2 t-e se4eral
6inds o2 retail trade* as we be2ore ,ommanded* ,on,ernin. ad0lteration
>w-i,- is a matter a6in to t-is?* and w-en t-ey meet t-ey s-all
,onsider w-at amo0nt o2 re,ei1ts* a2ter ded0,tin. e:1enses* will
1rod0,e a moderate .ain to t-e retail trades* and t-ey s-all 2i: in
writin. and stri,tly maintain w-at t-ey 2ind to be t-e ri.-t
1er,enta.e o2 1ro2it) t-is s-all be seen to by t-e wardens o2 t-e
a.ora* and by t-e wardens o2 t-e ,ity* and by t-e wardens o2 t-e
,o0ntry/ And so retail trade will bene2it e4ery one* and do t-e
least 1ossible inj0ry to t-ose in t-e state w-o 1ra,tise it/
W-en a man ma6es an a.reement w-i,- -e does not 20l2il* 0nless t-e
a.reement be o2 a nat0re w-i,- t-e law or a 4ote o2 t-e assembly
does not allow* or w-i,- -e -as made 0nder t-e in2l0en,e o2 some
0nj0st ,om10lsion* or w-i,- -e is 1re4ented 2rom 20l2illin. a.ainst
-is will by some 0ne:1e,ted ,-an,e* t-e ot-er 1arty may .o to law wit-
-im in t-e ,o0rts o2 t-e tribes* 2or not -a4in. ,om1leted -is
a.reement* i2 t-e 1arties are not able 1re4io0sly to ,ome to terms
be2ore arbiters or be2ore t-eir nei.-bo0rs/ #-e ,lass o2 ,ra2tsmen w-o
-a4e 20rnis-ed -0man li2e wit- t-e arts is dedi,ated to $e1-aest0s and
At-ene) and t-ere is a ,lass o2 ,ra2tsmen w-o 1reser4e t-e wor6s o2
all ,ra2tsmen by arts o2 de2en,e* t-e 4otaries o2 Ares and At-ene*
to w-i,- di4inities t-ey too are ri.-tly dedi,ated/ All t-ese ,ontin0e
t-ro0.- li2e ser4in. t-e ,o0ntry and t-e 1eo1le) some o2 t-em are
leaders in battle) ot-ers ma6e 2or -ire im1lements and wor6s* and t-ey
o0.-t not to de,ei4e in s0,- matters* o0t o2 res1e,t to t-e &ods w-o
are t-eir an,estors/ I2 any ,ra2tsman t-ro0.- indolen,e omit to
e:e,0te -is wor6 in a .i4en time* not re4eren,in. t-e &od w-o .i4es
-im t-e means o2 li2e* b0t ,onsiderin.* 2oolis- 2ellow* t-at -e is -is
own &od and will let -im o22 easily* in t-e 2irst 1la,e* -e s-all
s022er at t-e -ands o2 t-e &od* and in t-e se,ond 1la,e* t-e law s-all
2ollow in a similar s1irit/ $e s-all owe to -im w-o ,ontra,ted wit-
-im t-e 1ri,e o2 t-e wor6s w-i,- -e -as 2ailed in 1er2ormin.* and -e
s-all be.in a.ain and e:e,0te t-em .ratis in t-e .i4en time/ W-en a
man 0nderta6es a wor6* t-e law .i4es -im t-e same ad4i,e w-i,- was
.i4en to t-e seller* t-at -e s-o0ld not attem1t to raise t-e 1ri,e*
b0t sim1ly as6 t-e 4al0e) t-is t-e law enjoins also on t-e ,ontra,tor)
2or t-e ,ra2tsman ass0redly 6nows t-e 4al0e o2 -is wor6/ W-ere2ore* in
2ree states t-e man o2 art o0.-t not to attem1t to im1ose 01on 1ri4ate
indi4id0als by t-e -el1 o2 -is art* w-i,- is by nat0re a tr0e t-in.)
and -e w-o is wron.ed in a matter o2 t-is sort* s-all -a4e a ri.-t
o2 a,tion a.ainst t-e 1arty w-o -as wron.ed -im/ And i2 any one lets
o0t wor6 to a ,ra2tsman* and does not 1ay -im d0ly a,,ordin. to t-e
law20l a.reement* disre.ardin. 5e0s t-e .0ardian o2 t-e ,ity and
At-ene* w-o are t-e 1artners o2 t-e state* and o4ert-rows t-e
2o0ndations o2 so,iety 2or t-e sa6e o2 a little .ain* in -is ,ase
let t-e law and t-e &ods maintain t-e ,ommon bonds o2 t-e state/ And
let -im w-o* -a4in. already re,ei4ed t-e wor6 in e:,-an.e* does not
1ay t-e 1ri,e in t-e time a.reed* 1ay do0ble t-e 1ri,e) and i2 a
year -as ela1sed* alt-o0.- interest is not to be ta6en on loans* yet
2or e4ery dra,-ma w-i,- -e owes to t-e ,ontra,tor let -im 1ay a
mont-ly interest o2 an obol/ S0its abo0t t-ese matters are to be
de,ided by t-e ,o0rts o2 t-e tribes) and by t-e way* sin,e we -a4e
mentioned ,ra2tsmen at all* we m0st not 2or.et t-e ot-er ,ra2t o2 war*
in w-i,- .enerals and ta,ti,ians are t-e ,ra2tsmen* w-o 0nderta6e
4ol0ntarily t-e wor6 o2 o0r sa2ety* as ot-er ,ra2tsmen 0nderta6e ot-er
10bli, wor6s)9i2 t-ey e:e,0te t-eir wor6 well t-e law will ne4er
tire o2 1raisin. -im w-o .i4es t-em t-ose -ono0rs w-i,- are t-e j0st
rewards o2 t-e soldier) b0t i2 any one* -a4in. already re,ei4ed t-e
bene2it o2 any noble ser4i,e in war* does not ma6e t-e d0e ret0rn o2
-ono0r* t-e law will blame -im/ Let t-is t-en be t-e law* -a4in. an
in.redient o2 1raise* not ,om1ellin. b0t ad4isin. t-e .reat body o2
t-e ,iti<ens to -ono0r t-e bra4e men w-o are t-e sa4io0rs o2 t-e w-ole
state* w-et-er by t-eir ,o0ra.e or by t-eir military s6ill)9t-ey
s-o0ld -ono0r t-em* I say* in t-e se,ond 1la,e) 2or t-e 2irst and
-i.-est trib0te o2 res1e,t is to be .i4en to t-ose w-o are able
abo4e ot-er men to -ono0r t-e words o2 .ood le.islators/
#-e .reater 1art o2 t-e dealin.s between man and man -a4e been now
re.0lated by 0s wit- t-e e:,e1tion o2 t-ose t-at relate to or1-ans and
t-e s01er4ision o2 or1-ans by t-eir .0ardians/ #-ese 2ollow ne:t in
order* and m0st be re.0lated in some way/ B0t to arri4e at t-em we
m0st be.in wit- t-e testamentary wis-es o2 t-e dyin. and t-e ,ase o2
t-ose w-o may -a4e -a11ened to die intestate/ W-en I said* Cleinias*
t-at we m0st re.0late t-em* I -ad in my mind t-e di22i,0lty and
1er1le:ity in w-i,- all s0,- matters are in4ol4ed/ 7o0 ,annot lea4e
t-em 0nre.0lated* 2or indi4id0als wo0ld ma6e re.0lations at 4arian,e
wit- one anot-er* and re10.nant to t-e laws and -abits o2 t-e li4in.
and to t-eir own 1re4io0s -abits* i2 a 1erson were sim1ly allowed to
ma6e any will w-i,- -e 1leased* and t-is were to ta6e e22e,t in
w-ate4er state -e may -a4e been at t-e end o2 -is li2e) 2or most o2 0s
lose o0r senses in a manner* and 2eel ,r0s-ed w-en we t-in6 t-at we
are abo0t to die/
Cle/ W-at do yo0 mean* Stran.er3
At-/ O Cleinias* a man w-en -e is abo0t to die is an intra,table
,reat0re* and is a1t to 0se lan.0a.e w-i,- ,a0ses a .reat deal o2
an:iety and tro0ble to t-e le.islator/
Cle/ In w-at way3
At-/ $e wants to -a4e t-e entire ,ontrol o2 all -is 1ro1erty* and
will 0se an.ry words/
Cle/ S0,- as w-at3
At-/ O ye &ods* -e will say* -ow monstro0s t-at I am not allowed
to .i4e* or not to .i4e my own to w-om I will9less to -im w-o -as been
bad to me* and more to -im w-o -as been .ood to me* and w-ose
badness and .oodness -a4e been tested by me in time o2 si,6ness or
in old a.e and in e4ery ot-er sort o2 2ort0neD
Cle/ Well Stran.er* and may -e not 4ery 2airly say so3
At-/ In my o1inion* Cleinias* t-e an,ient le.islators were too
.ood9nat0red* and made laws wit-o0t s022i,ient obser4ation or
,onsideration o2 -0man t-in.s/
Cle/ W-at do yo0 mean3
At-/ I mean* my 2riend t-at t-ey were a2raid o2 t-e testator=s
re1roa,-es* and so t-ey 1assed a law to t-e e22e,t t-at a man s-o0ld
be allowed to dis1ose o2 -is 1ro1erty in all res1e,ts as -e li6ed) b0t
yo0 and I* i2 I am not mista6en* will -a4e somet-in. better to say
to o0r de1artin. ,iti<ens/
Cle/ W-at3
At-/ O my 2riends* we will say to t-em* -ard is it 2or yo0* w-o
are ,reat0res o2 a day* to 6now w-at is yo0rs9-ard too* as t-e %el1-i,
ora,le says* to 6now yo0rsel4es at t-is -o0r/ !ow I* as t-e
le.islator* re.ard yo0 and yo0r 1ossessions* not as belon.in. to
yo0rsel4es* b0t as belon.in. to yo0r w-ole 2amily* bot- 1ast and
20t0re* and yet more do re.ard bot- 2amily and 1ossessions as
belon.in. to t-e state) w-ere2ore* i2 some one steals 01on yo0 wit-
2lattery* w-en yo0 are tossed on t-e sea o2 disease or old a.e* and
1ers0ades yo0 to dis1ose o2 yo0r 1ro1erty in a way t-at is not 2or t-e
best* I will not* i2 I ,an -el1* allow t-is) b0t I will le.islate wit-
a 4iew to t-e w-ole* ,onsiderin. w-at is best bot- 2or t-e state and
2or t-e 2amily* esteemin. as I o0.-t t-e 2eelin.s o2 an indi4id0al
at a lower rate) and I -o1e t-at yo0 will de1art in 1ea,e and 6indness
towards 0s* as yo0 are .oin. t-e way o2 all man6ind) and we will
im1artially ta6e ,are o2 all yo0r ,on,erns* not ne.le,tin. any o2
t-em* i2 we ,an 1ossibly -el1/ Let t-is be o0r 1rel0de and ,onsolation
to t-e li4in. and dyin.* Cleinias* and let t-e law be as 2ollows(
$e w-o ma6es a dis1osition in a testament* i2 -e be t-e 2at-er o2
a 2amily* s-all 2irst o2 all ins,ribe as -is -eir any one o2 -is
sons w-om -e may t-in6 2it) and i2 -e .i4es any o2 -is ,-ildren to
be ado1ted by anot-er ,iti<en* let t-e ado1tion be ins,ribed/ And i2
-e -as a son remainin. o4er and abo4e w-o -as not been ado1ted 01on
any lot* and w-o may be e:1e,ted to be sent o0t to a ,olony
a,,ordin. to law* to -im -is 2at-er may .i4e as m0,- as -e 1leases
o2 t-e rest o2 -is 1ro1erty* wit- t-e e:,e1tion o2 t-e 1aternal lot
and t-e 2i:t0res on t-e lot/ And i2 t-ere are ot-er sons* let -im
distrib0te amon. t-em w-at t-ere is more t-an t-e lot in s0,- 1ortions
as -e 1leases/ And i2 one o2 t-e sons -as already a -o0se o2 -is
own* -e s-all not .i4e -im o2 t-e money* nor s-all -e .i4e money to
a da0.-ter w-o -as been betrot-ed* b0t i2 s-e is not betrot-ed -e
may .i4e -er money/ And i2 any o2 t-e sons or da0.-ters s-all be 2o0nd
to -a4e anot-er lot o2 land in t-e ,o0ntry* w-i,- -as a,,r0ed a2ter
t-e testament -as been made* t-ey s-all lea4e t-e lot w-i,- t-ey
-a4e in-erited to t-e -eir o2 t-e man w-o -as made t-e will/ I2 t-e
testator -as no sons* b0t only da0.-ters* let -im ,-oose t-e -0sband
o2 any one o2 -is da0.-ters w-om -e 1leases* and lea4e and ins,ribe
-im as -is son and -eir/ And i2 a man -a4e lost -is son* w-en -e was a
,-ild* and be2ore -e ,o0ld be re,6oned amon. .rown901 men* w-et-er -is
own or an ado1ted son* let t-e testator ma6e mention o2 t-e
,ir,0mstan,e and ins,ribe w-om -e will to be -is se,ond son in -o1e o2
better 2ort0ne/ I2 t-e testator -as no ,-ildren at all* -e may
sele,t and .i4e to any one w-om -e 1leases t-e tent- 1art o2 t-e
1ro1erty w-i,- -e -as a,;0ired) b0t let -im not be blamed i2 -e
.i4es all t-e rest to -is ado1ted son* and ma6es a 2riend o2 -im
a,,ordin. to t-e law/ I2 t-e sons o2 a man re;0ire .0ardians* and( t-e
2at-er w-en -e dies lea4es a will a11ointin. .0ardians* t-ose -a4e
been named by -im* w-oe4er t-ey are and w-ate4er t-eir n0mber be* i2
t-ey are able and willin. to ta6e ,-ar.e o2 t-e ,-ildren* s-all be
re,o.ni<ed a,,ordin. to t-e 1ro4isions o2 t-e will/ B0t i2 -e dies and
-as made no will* or a will in w-i,- -e -as a11ointed no .0ardians*
t-en t-e ne:t o2 6in* two on t-e 2at-er=s and two on t-e mot-er=s
side* and one o2 t-e 2riends o2 t-e de,eased* s-all -a4e t-e a0t-ority
o2 .0ardians* w-om t-e .0ardians o2 t-e law s-all a11oint w-en t-e
or1-ans re;0ire .0ardians/ And t-e 2i2teen eldest .0ardians o2 t-e law
s-all -a4e t-e w-ole ,are and ,-ar.e o2 t-e or1-ans* di4ided into
t-rees a,,ordin. to seniority9a body o2 t-ree 2or one year* and t-en
anot-er body o2 t-ree 2or t-e ne:t year* 0ntil t-e ,y,le o2 t-e 2i4e
1eriods is ,om1lete) and t-is* as 2ar as 1ossible* is to ,ontin0e
always/ I2 a man dies* -a4in. made no will at all* and lea4es sons w-o
re;0ire t-e ,are o2 .0ardians* t-ey s-all s-are in t-e 1rote,tion
w-i,- is a22orded by t-ese laws/
And i2 a man dyin. by some 0ne:1e,ted 2ate lea4es da0.-ters be-ind
-im* let -im 1ardon t-e le.islator i2 -e .i4es t-em in marria.e* -e
-a4e a re.ard only to two o0t o2 t-ree ,onditions9nearness o2 6in
and t-e 1reser4ation o2 t-e lot* and omits t-e t-ird ,ondition*
w-i,- a 2at-er wo0ld nat0rally ,onsider* 2or -e wo0ld ,-oose o0t o2
all t-e ,iti<ens a son 2or -imsel2* and a -0sband 2or -is da0.-ter*
wit- a 4iew to -is ,-ara,ter and dis1osition9t-e 2at-er* say* s-all
2or.i4e t-e le.islator i2 -e disre.ards t-is* w-i,- to -im is an
im1ossible ,onsideration/ Let t-e law abo0t t-ese matters w-ere
1ra,ti,able be as 2ollows(9I2 a man dies wit-o0t ma6in. a will* and
lea4es be-ind -im da0.-ters* let -is brot-er* bein. t-e son o2 t-e
same 2at-er or o2 t-e same mot-er* -a4in. no lot* marry t-e da0.-ter
and -a4e t-e lot o2 t-e dead man/ And i2 -e -a4e no brot-er* b0t
only a brot-er=s son* in li6e manner let t-em marry* i2 t-ey be o2 a
s0itable a.e) and i2 t-ere be not e4en a brot-er=s son* b0t only t-e
son o2 a sister* let t-em do li6ewise* and so in t-e 2o0rt- de.ree* i2
t-ere be only t-e testator=s 2at-er=s brot-er* or in t-e 2i2t- de.ree*
-is 2at-er=s brot-er=s son* or in t-e si:t- de.ree* t-e ,-ild o2 -is
2at-er=s sister/ Let 6indred be always re,6oned in t-is way( i2 a
1erson lea4es da0.-ters t-e relations-i1 s-all 1ro,eed 01wards t-ro0.-
brot-ers and sisters* and brot-ers= and sisters= ,-ildren* and 2irst
t-e males s-all ,ome* and a2ter t-em t-e 2emales in t-e same 2amily/
#-e j0d.e s-all ,onsider and determine t-e s0itableness or
0ns0itableness o2 a.e in marria.e) -e s-all ma6e an ins1e,tion o2
t-e males na6ed* and o2 t-e women na6ed down to t-e na4el/ And i2
t-ere be a la,6 o2 6insmen in a 2amily e:tendin. to .rand,-ildren o2 a
brot-er* or to t-e .rand,-ildren o2 a .rand2at-er=s ,-ildren* t-e
maiden may ,-oose wit- t-e ,onsent o2 -er .0ardians any one o2 t-e
,iti<ens w-o is willin. and w-om s-e wills* and -e s-all be t-e -eir
o2 t-e dead man* and t-e -0sband o2 -is da0.-ter/ Cir,0mstan,es
4ary* and t-ere may sometimes be a still .reater la,6 o2 relations
wit-in t-e limits o2 t-e state) and i2 any maiden -as no 6indred
li4in. in t-e ,ity* and t-ere is some one w-o -as been sent o0t to a
,olony* and s-e is dis1osed to ma6e -im t-e -eir o2 -er 2at-er=s
1ossessions* i2 -e be indeed o2 -er 6indred* let -im 1ro,eed to ta6e
t-e lot a,,ordin. to t-e re.0lation o2 t-e law) b0t i2 -e be not o2
-er 6indred* s-e -a4in. no 6insmen wit-in t-e ,ity* and -e be ,-osen
by t-e da0.-ter o2 t-e dead man* and em1owered to marry by t-e
.0ardians* let -im ret0rn -ome and ta6e t-e lot o2 -im w-o died
intestate/ And i2 a man -as no ,-ildren* eit-er male or 2emale* and
dies wit-o0t ma6in. a will* let t-e 1re4io0s law in .eneral -old)
and let a man and a woman .o 2ort- 2rom t-e 2amily and s-are t-e
deserted -o0se* and let t-e lot belon. absol0tely to t-em) and let t-e
-eiress in t-e 2irst de.ree be a sister* and in a se,ond de.ree a
da0.-ter o2 a brot-er* and in t-e t-ird* a da0.-ter o2 a sister* in
t-e 2o0rt- de.ree t-e sister o2 a 2at-er* and in t-e 2i2t- de.ree
t-e da0.-ter o2 a 2at-er=s brot-er* and in a si:t- de.ree o2 a
2at-er=s sister) and t-ese s-all dwell wit- t-eir male 6insmen*
a,,ordin. to t-e de.ree o2 relations-i1 and ri.-t* as we ena,ted
be2ore/ !ow we m0st not ,on,eal 2rom o0rsel4es t-at s0,- laws are
a1t to be o11ressi4e and t-at t-ere may sometimes be a -ards-i1 in t-e
law.i4er ,ommandin. t-e 6insman o2 t-e dead man to marry -is relation)
be may be t-o0.-t not to -a4e ,onsidered t-e inn0merable -indran,es
w-i,- may arise amon. men in t-e e:e,0tion o2 s0,- ordinan,es) 2or
t-ere may be ,ases in w-i,- t-e 1arties re20se to obey* and are
ready to do anyt-in. rat-er t-an marry* w-en t-ere is some bodily or
mental malady or de2e,t amon. t-ose w-o are bidden to marry or be
married/ Persons may 2an,y t-at t-e le.islator ne4er t-o0.-t o2
t-is* b0t t-ey are mista6en) w-ere2ore let 0s ma6e a ,ommon 1rel0de on
be-al2 o2 t-e law.i4er and o2 -is s0bje,ts* t-e law be..in. t-e latter
to 2or.i4e t-e le.islator* in t-at -e* -a4in. to ta6e ,are o2 t-e
,ommon weal* ,annot order at t-e same time t-e 4ario0s ,ir,0mstan,es
o2 indi4id0als* and be..in. -im to 1ardon t-em i2 nat0rally t-ey are
sometimes 0nable to 20l2il t-e a,t w-i,- -e in -is i.noran,e im1oses
01on t-em/
Cle/ And -ow* Stran.er* ,an we a,t most 2airly 0nder t-e
,ir,0mstan,es3
At-/ #-ere m0st be arbiters ,-osen to deal wit- s0,- laws and t-e
s0bje,ts o2 t-em/
Cle/ W-at do yo0 mean3
At-/ I mean to say* t-at a ,ase may o,,0r in w-i,- t-e ne1-ew*
-a4in. a ri,- 2at-er* will be 0nwillin. to marry t-e da0.-ter o2 -is
0n,le) -e will -a4e a 2eelin. o2 1ride* and -e will wis- to loo6
-i.-er/ And t-ere are ,ases in w-i,- t-e le.islator will be im1osin.
01on -im t-e .reatest ,alamity* and -e will be ,om1elled to disobey
t-e law* i2 -e is re;0ired* 2or e:am1le* to ta6e a wi2e w-o is mad* or
-as some ot-er terrible malady o2 so0l or body* s0,- as ma6es li2e
intolerable to t-e s022erer/ #-en let w-at we are sayin. ,on,ernin.
t-ese ,ases be embodied in a law(9I2 any one 2inds 2a0lt wit- t-e
establis-ed laws res1e,tin. testaments* bot- as to ot-er matters and
es1e,ially in w-at relates to marria.e* and asserts t-at t-e
le.islator* i2 -e were ali4e and 1resent* wo0ld not ,om1el -im to
obey9t-at is to say* wo0ld not ,om1el t-ose w-o are by o0r law
re;0ired to marry or be .i4en in marria.e* to do eit-er9and some
6insman or .0ardian dis10te t-is* t-e re1ly is t-at t-e le.islator
le2t 2i2teen o2 t-e .0ardians o2 t-e law to be arbiters and 2at-ers o2
or1-ans* male or 2emale* and to t-em let t-e dis10tants -a4e re,o0rse*
and by t-eir aid determine any matters o2 t-e 6ind* admittin. t-eir
de,ision to be 2inal/ B0t i2 any one t-in6s t-at too .reat 1ower is
t-0s .i4en to t-e .0ardians o2 t-e law* let -im brin. -is
ad4ersaries into t-e ,o0rt o2 t-e sele,t j0d.es* and t-ere -a4e t-e
1oints in dis10te determined/ And -e w-o loses t-e ,a0se s-all -a4e
,ens0re and blame 2rom t-e le.islator* w-i,-* by a man o2 sense* is
2elt to be a 1enalty 2ar -ea4ier t-an a .reat loss o2 money/
#-0s will or1-an ,-ildren -a4e a se,ond birt-/ A2ter t-eir 2irst
birt- we s1o6e o2 t-eir n0rt0re and ed0,ation* and a2ter t-eir
se,ond birt-* w-en t-ey -a4e lost t-eir 1arents* we o0.-t to ta6e
meas0res t-at t-e mis2ort0ne o2 or1-an-ood may be as little sad to
t-em as 1ossible/ In t-e 2irst 1la,e* we say t-at t-e .0ardians o2 t-e
law are law.i4ers and 2at-ers to t-em* not in2erior to t-eir nat0ral
2at-ers/ +oreo4er* t-ey s-all ta6e ,-ar.e o2 t-em year by year as o2
t-eir own 6indred) and we -a4e .i4en bot- to t-em and to t-e
,-ildren=s own .0ardians a s0itable admonition ,on,ernin. t-e
n0rt0re o2 or1-ans/ And we seem to -a4e s1o6en o11ort0nely in o0r
2ormer dis,o0rse* w-en we said t-at t-e so0ls o2 t-e dead -a4e t-e
1ower a2ter deat- o2 ta6in. an interest in -0man a22airs* abo0t
w-i,- t-ere are many tales and traditions* lon. indeed* b0t tr0e)
and seein. t-at t-ey are so many and so an,ient* we m0st belie4e t-em*
and we m0st also belie4e t-e law.i4ers* w-o tell 0s t-at t-ese
t-in.s are tr0e* i2 t-ey are not to be re.arded as 0tter 2ools/ B0t i2
t-ese t-in.s are really so* in t-e 2irst 1la,e men s-o0ld -a4e a
2ear o2 t-e &ods abo4e* w-o re.ard t-e loneliness o2 t-e or1-ans)
and in t-e se,ond 1la,e o2 t-e so0ls o2 t-e de1arted* w-o by nat0re
in,line to ta6e an es1e,ial ,are o2 t-eir own ,-ildren* and are
2riendly to t-ose w-o -ono0r* and 0n2riendly to t-ose w-o dis-ono0r
t-em/ +en s-o0ld also 2ear t-e so0ls o2 t-e li4in. w-o are a.ed and
-i.- in -ono0r) w-ere4er a ,ity is well ordered and 1ros1ero0s*
t-eir des,endants ,-eris- t-em* and so li4e -a11ily) old 1ersons are
;0i,6 to see and -ear all t-at relates to t-em* and are 1ro1itio0s
to t-ose w-o are j0st in t-e 20l2ilment o2 s0,- d0ties* and t-ey
10nis- t-ose w-o wron. t-e or1-an and t-e desolate* ,onsiderin. t-at
t-ey are t-e .reatest and most sa,red o2 tr0sts/ #o all w-i,-
matters t-e .0ardian and ma.istrate o0.-t to a11ly -is mind* i2 -e -as
any* and ta6e -eed o2 t-e n0rt0re and ed0,ation o2 t-e or1-ans*
see6in. in e4ery 1ossible way to do t-em .ood* 2or -e is ma6in. a
,ontrib0tion to -is own .ood and t-at o2 -is ,-ildren/ $e w-o obeys
t-e tale w-i,- 1re,edes t-e law* and does no wron. to an or1-an*
will ne4er e:1erien,e t-e wrat- o2 t-e le.islator/ B0t -e w-o is
disobedient* and wron.s any one w-o is bere2t o2 2at-er or mot-er*
s-all 1ay twi,e t-e 1enalty w-i,- -e wo0ld -a4e 1aid i2 -e -ad wron.ed
one w-ose 1arents -ad been ali4e/ As to0,-in. ot-er le.islation
,on,ernin. .0ardians in t-eir relation to or1-ans* or ,on,ernin.
ma.istrates and t-eir s01erintenden,e o2 t-e .0ardians* i2 t-ey did
not 1ossess e:am1les o2 t-e manner in w-i,- ,-ildren o2 2reemen s-o0ld
be bro0.-t 01 in t-e brin.in. 01 o2 t-eir own ,-ildren* and o2 t-e
,are o2 t-eir 1ro1erty in t-e ,are o2 t-eir own* or i2 t-ey -ad not
j0st laws 2airly stated abo0t t-ese 4ery t-in.s9t-ere wo0ld -a4e
been reason in ma6in. laws 2or t-em* 0nder t-e idea t-at t-ey were a
1e,0liar9,lass* and we mi.-t distin.0is- and ma6e se1arate r0les 2or
t-e li2e o2 t-ose w-o are or1-ans and o2 t-ose w-o are not or1-ans/
B0t as t-e ,ase stands* t-e ,ondition o2 or1-ans wit- 0s not di22erent
2rom t-e ,ase o2 t-ose w-o -a4e 2at-er* t-o0.- in re.ard to -ono0r and
dis-ono0r* and t-e attention .i4en to t-em* t-e two are not 0s0ally
1la,ed 01on a le4el/ W-ere2ore* to0,-in. t-e le.islation abo0t
or1-ans* t-e law s1ea6s in serio0s a,,ents* bot- o2 1ers0asion and
t-reatenin.* and s0,- a t-reat as t-e 2ollowin. will be by no means
o0t o2 1la,e(9$e w-o is t-e .0ardian o2 an or1-an o2 eit-er se:* and
-e amon. t-e .0ardians o2 t-e law to w-om t-e s01erintenden,e o2
t-is .0ardian -as been assi.ned* s-all lo4e t-e 0n2ort0nate or1-an
as t-o0.- -e were -is own ,-ild* and -e s-all be as ,are20l and
dili.ent in t-e mana.ement o2 -is 1ossessions as -e wo0ld be i2 t-ey
were -is own* or e4en more ,are20l and dilli.ent/ Let e4ery one w-o
-as t-e ,are o2 an or1-an obser4e t-is law/ B0t any one w-o a,ts
,ontrary to t-e law on t-ese matters* i2 -e be a .0ardian o2 t-e
,-ild* may be 2ined by a ma.istrate* or* i2 -e be -imsel2 a
ma.istrate* t-e .0ardian may brin. -im be2ore t-e ,o0rt o2 sele,t
j0d.es* and 10nis- -im* i2 ,on4i,ted* by e:a,tin. a 2ine o2 do0ble t-e
amo0nt o2 t-at in2li,ted by t-e ,o0rt/ And i2 a .0ardian a11ears to
t-e relations o2 t-e or1-an* or to any ot-er ,iti<en* to a,t
ne.li.ently or dis-onestly* let t-em brin. -im be2ore t-e same
,o0rt* and w-ate4er dama.es are .i4en a.ainst -im* let -im 1ay
2o0r2old* and let -al2 belon. to t-e or1-an and -al2 to -im w-o
1ro,0red t-e ,on4i,tion/ I2 any or1-an arri4es at years o2 dis,retion*
and t-in6s t-at -e -as been ill90sed by -is .0ardians* let -im
wit-in 2i4e years o2 t-e e:1iration o2 t-e .0ardians-i1 be allowed
to brin. t-em to trial) and i2 any o2 t-em be ,on4i,ted* t-e ,o0rt
s-all determine w-at -e s-all 1ay or s022er/ And i2 ma.istrate s-all
a11ear to -a4e wron.ed t-e or1-an by ne.le,t* and -e be ,on4i,ted* let
t-e ,o0rt determine w-at -e s-all s022er or 1ay to t-e or1-an* and
i2 t-ere be dis-onesty in addition to ne.le,t* besides 1ayin. t-e
2ine* let -im be de1osed 2rom -is o22i,e o2 .0ardian o2 t-e law* and
let t-e state a11oint anot-er .0ardian o2 t-e law 2or t-e ,ity and 2or
t-e ,o0ntry in -is room/
&reater di22eren,es t-an t-ere o0.-t to be sometimes arise between
2at-ers and sons* on t-e 1art eit-er o2 2at-ers w-o will be o2 o1inion
t-at t-e le.islator s-o0ld ena,t t-at t-ey may* i2 t-ey wis-* law20lly
reno0n,e t-eir son by t-e 1ro,lamation o2 a -erald in t-e 2a,e o2
t-e world* or o2 sons w-o t-in6 t-at t-ey s-o0ld be allowed to
indi,t t-eir 2at-ers on t-e ,-ar.e o2 imbe,ility w-en t-ey are
disabled by disease or old a.e/ #-ese t-in.s only -a11en* as a
matter o2 2a,t* w-ere t-e nat0res o2 men are 0tterly bad) 2or w-ere
only -al2 is bad* as* 2or e:am1le* i2 t-e 2at-er be not bad* b0t t-e
son be bad* or ,on4ersely* no .reat ,alamity is t-e res0lt o2 s0,-
an amo0nt o2 -atred as t-is/ In anot-er state* a son disowned by -is
2at-er wo0ld not o2 ne,essity ,ease to be a ,iti<en* b0t in o0r state*
o2 w-i,- t-ese are to be t-e laws* t-e disin-erited m0st ne,essarily
emi.rate into anot-er ,o0ntry* 2or no addition ,an be made e4en o2 a
sin.le 2amily to t-e F0G0 -o0se-olds) and* t-ere2ore* -e w-o
deser4es to s022er t-ese t-in.s m0st be reno0n,ed not only by -is
2at-er* w-o is a sin.le 1erson* b0t by t-e w-ole 2amily* and w-at is
done in t-ese ,ases m0st be re.0lated by some s0,- law as t-e
2ollowin.(9$e w-o in t-e sad disorder o2 -is so0l -as a mind* j0stly
or 0nj0stly* to e:1el 2rom -is 2amily a son w-om -e -as be.otten and
bro0.-t 01* s-all not li.-tly or at on,e e:e,0te -is 10r1ose) b0t
2irst o2 all -e s-all ,olle,t to.et-er -is own 6insmen e:tendin. to
,o0sins* and in li6e manner -is son=s 6insmen by t-e mot-er=s side*
and in t-eir 1resen,e -e s-all a,,0se -is son* settin. 2ort- t-at -e
deser4es at t-e -ands o2 t-em all to be dismissed 2rom t-e 2amily) and
t-e son s-all be allowed to address t-em in a similar manner* and s-ow
t-at -e does not deser4e to s022er any o2 t-ese t-in.s/ And i2 t-e
2at-er 1ers0ades t-em* and obtains t-e s022ra.es o2 more t-an -al2
o2 -is 6indred* e:,l0si4e o2 t-e 2at-er and mot-er and t-e o22ender
-imsel29I say* i2 -e obtains more t-an -al2 t-e s022ra.es o2 all t-e
ot-er .rown901 members o2 t-e 2amily* o2 bot- se:es* t-e 2at-er
s-all be 1ermitted to 10t away -is son* b0t not ot-erwise/ And i2
any ot-er ,iti<en is willin. to ado1t t-e son w-o is 10t away* no
law s-all -inder -im) 2or t-e ,-ara,ters o2 yo0n. men are s0bje,t to
many ,-an.es in t-e ,o0rse o2 t-eir li4es/ And i2 -e -as been 10t
away* and in a 1eriod o2 ten years no one is willin. to ado1t -im* let
t-ose w-o -a4e t-e ,are o2 t-e s01erab0ndant 1o10lation w-i,- is
sent o0t into ,olonies* see to -im* in order t-at -e may be s0itably
1ro4ided 2or in t-e ,olony/ And i2 disease or a.e or -ars-ness o2
tem1er* or all t-ese to.et-er* ma6es a man to be more o0t o2 -is
mind t-an t-e rest o2 t-e world are9b0t t-is is not obser4able* e:,e1t
to t-ose w-o li4e wit- -im9and -e* bein. master o2 -is 1ro1erty* is
t-e r0in o2 t-e -o0se* and -is son do0bts and -esitates abo0t
indi,tin. -is 2at-er 2or insanity* let t-e law in t-at ,ase or* t-at
-e s-all 2irst o2 all .o to t-e eldest .0ardians o2 t-e law and tell
t-em o2 -is 2at-er=s mis2ort0ne* and t-ey s-all d0ly loo6 into t-e
matter* and ta6e ,o0nsel as to w-et-er -e s-all indi,t -im or not/ And
i2 t-ey ad4ise -im to 1ro,eed* t-ey s-all be bot- -is witnesses and
-is ad4o,ates) and i2 t-e 2at-er is ,ast* -e s-all -en,e2ort- be
in,a1able o2 orderin. t-e least 1arti,0lar o2 -is li2e) let -im be
as a ,-ild dwellin. in t-e -o0se 2or t-e remainder o2 -is days/ And i2
a man and -is wi2e -a4e an 0n2ort0nate in,om1atibility o2 tem1er*
ten o2 t-e .0ardians o2 t-e law* w-o are im1artial* and ten o2 t-e
women w-o re.0late marria.es* s-all loo6 to t-e matter* and i2 t-ey
are able to re,on,ile t-em t-ey s-all be 2ormally re,on,iled) b0t i2
t-eir so0ls are too m0,- tossed wit- 1assion* t-ey s-all endea4o0r
to 2ind ot-er 1artners/ !ow t-ey are not li6ely to -a4e 4ery .entle
tem1ers) and* t-ere2ore* we m0st endea4o0r to asso,iate wit- t-em
dee1er and so2ter nat0res/ #-ose w-o -a4e no ,-ildren* or only a
2ew* at t-e time o2 t-eir se1aration* s-o0ld ,-oose t-eir new 1artners
wit- a 4iew to t-e 1ro,reation o2 ,-ildren) b0t t-ose w-o -a4e a
s022i,ient n0mber o2 ,-ildren s-o0ld se1arate and marry a.ain in order
t-at t-ey may -a4e some one to .row old wit- and t-at t-e 1air may
ta6e ,are o2 one anot-er in a.e/ I2 a woman dies* lea4in. ,-ildren*
male or 2emale* t-e law will ad4ise rat-er t-an ,om1el t-e -0sband
to brin. 01 t-e ,-ildren wit-o0t introd0,in. into t-e -o0se a
ste1mot-er/ B0t i2 -e -a4e no ,-ildren* t-en -e s-all be ,om1elled
to marry 0ntil -e -as be.otten a s022i,ient n0mber o2 sons to -is
2amily and to t-e state/ And i2 a man dies lea4in. a s022i,ient n0mber
o2 ,-ildren* t-e mot-er o2 -is ,-ildren s-all remain wit- t-em and
brin.* t-em 01/ B0t i2 s-e a11ears to be too yo0n. to li4e
4irt0o0sly wit-o0t a -0sband* let -er relations ,omm0ni,ate wit- t-e
women w-o s01erintend marria.e* and let bot- to.et-er do w-at t-ey
t-in6 best in t-ese matters) i2 t-ere is a la,6 o2 ,-ildren* let t-e
,-oi,e be made wit- a 4iew to -a4in. t-em) two ,-ildren* one o2 eit-er
se:* s-all be deemed s022i,ient in t-e eye o2 t-e law/ W-en a ,-ild is
admitted to be t-e o22s1rin. o2 ,ertain 1arents and is a,6nowled.ed by
t-em* b0t t-ere is need o2 a de,ision as to w-i,- 1arent t-e ,-ild
is to 2ollow9in ,ase a 2emale sla4e -a4e inter,o0rse wit- a male
sla4e* or wit- a 2reeman or 2reedman* t-e o22s1rin. s-all always
belon. to t-e master o2 t-e 2emale sla4e/ A.ain* i2 a 2ree woman
-a4e inter,o0rse wit- a male sla4e* t-e o22s1rin. s-all belon. to
t-e master o2 t-e sla4e) b0t i2 a ,-ild be born eit-er o2 a sla4e by
-er master* or o2 -is mistress by a sla4e9and t-is be 1ro4en,e
o22s1rin. o2 t-e woman and its 2at-er s-all be sent away by t-e
women w-o s01erintend marria.e into anot-er ,o0ntry* and t-e .0ardians
o2 t-e law s-all send away t-e o22s1rin. o2 t-e man and its mot-er/
!eit-er &od* nor a man w-o -as 0nderstandin.* will e4er ad4ise any
one to ne.le,t -is 1arents/ #o a dis,o0rse ,on,ernin. t-e -ono0r and
dis-ono0r o2 1arents* a 1rel0de s0,- as t-e 2ollowin.* abo0t t-e
ser4i,e o2 t-e &ods* will be a s0itable introd0,tion(9#-ere are
an,ient ,0stoms abo0t t-e &ods w-i,- are 0ni4ersal* and t-ey are o2
two 6inds( some o2 t-e &ods we see wit- o0r eyes and we -ono0r t-em*
o2 ot-ers we -ono0r t-e ima.es* raisin. stat0es o2 t-em w-i,- we
adore) and t-o0.- t-ey are li2eless* yet we ima.ine t-at t-e li4in.
&ods -a4e a .ood will and .ratit0de to 0s on t-is a,,o0nt/ !ow* i2 a
man -as a 2at-er or mot-er* or t-eir 2at-ers or mot-ers treas0red 01
in -is -o0se stri,6en in years* let -im ,onsider t-at no stat0e ,an be
more 1otent to .rant -is re;0ests t-an t-ey are* w-o are sittin. at
-is -eart- i2 only -e 6nows -ow to s-ow tr0e ser4i,e to t-em/
Cle/ And w-at do yo0 ,all t-e tr0e mode o2 ser4i,e3
At-/ I will tell yo0* O my 2riend* 2or s0,- t-in.s are wort-
listenin. to/
Cle/ Pro,eed/
At-/ Oedi10s* as tradition says* w-en dis-ono0red by -is sons*
in4o6ed on t-em ,0rses w-i,- e4ery one de,lares to -a4e been -eard and
rati2ied by t-e &ods* and Amyntor in -is wrat- in4o6ed ,0rses on -is
son P-oeni:* and #-ese0s 01on $i11olyt0s* and inn0merable ot-ers
-a4e also ,alled down wrat- 01on t-eir ,-ildren* w-en,e it is ,lear
t-at t-e &ods listen to t-e im1re,ations o2 1arents) 2or t-e ,0rses o2
1arents are* as t-ey o0.-t to be* mi.-ty a.ainst t-eir ,-ildren as
no ot-ers are/ And s-all we s011ose t-at t-e 1rayers o2 a 2at-er or
mot-er w-o is s1e,ially dis-ono0red by -is or -er ,-ildren* are
-eard by t-e &ods in a,,ordan,e wit- nat0re) and t-at i2 a 1arent is
-ono0red by t-em* and in t-e .ladness o2 -is -eart earnestly
entreats t-e &ods in -is 1rayers to do t-em .ood* -e is not e;0ally
-eard* and t-at t-ey do not minister to -is re;0est3 I2 not* t-ey
wo0ld be 4ery 0nj0st ministers o2 .ood* and t-at we a22irm to be
,ontrary to t-eir nat0re/
Cle/ Certainly/
At-/ +ay we not t-in6* as I was sayin. j0st now* t-at we ,an 1ossess
no ima.e w-i,- is more -ono0red by t-e &ods* t-an t-at o2 a 2at-er
or .rand2at-er* or o2 a mot-er stri,6en in years3 w-om w-en a man
-ono0rs* t-e -eart o2 t-e &od rejoi,es* and -e is ready to answer
t-eir 1rayers/ And* tr0ly* t-e 2i.0re o2 an an,estor is a wonder20l
t-in.* 2ar -i.-er t-an t-at o2 a li2eless ima.e/ "or t-e li4in.*
w-en t-ey are -ono0red by 0s* join in o0r 1rayers* and w-en t-ey are
dis-ono0red* t-ey 0tter im1re,ations a.ainst 0s) b0t li2eless
obje,ts do neit-er/ And t-ere2ore* i2 a man ma6es a ri.-t 0se o2 -is
2at-er and .rand2at-er and ot-er a.ed relations* -e will -a4e ima.es
w-i,- abo4e all ot-ers will win -im t-e 2a4o0r o2 t-e &ods/
Cle/ E:,ellent/
At-/ E4ery man o2 any 0nderstandin. 2ears and res1e,ts t-e 1rayers
o2 1arents* 6nowin. well t-at many times and to many 1ersons t-ey -a4e
been a,,om1lis-ed/ !ow t-ese t-in.s bein. t-0s ordered by nat0re* .ood
men t-in6 it a blessin. 2rom -ea4en i2 t-eir 1arents li4e to old a.e
and rea,- t-e 0tmost limit o2 -0man li2e* or i2 ta6en away be2ore
t-eir time t-ey are dee1ly re.retted by t-em) b0t to bad men 1arents
are always a ,a0se o2 terror/ W-ere2ore let e4ery man -ono0r wit-
e4ery sort o2 law20l -ono0r -is own 1arents* a.reeably to w-at -as now
been said/ B0t i2 t-is 1rel0de be an 0nmeanin. so0nd in t-e ,ars o2
any one* let t-e law 2ollow* w-i,- may be ri.-tly im1osed in t-ese
terms(9I2 any one in t-is ,ity be not s022i,iently ,are20l o2 -is
1arents* and do not re.ard and .rati2y in e4ery res1e,t t-eir wis-es
more t-an t-ose o2 -is sons and o2 -is ot-er o22s1rin. or o2
-imsel29let -im w-o e:1erien,es t-is sort o2 treatment eit-er ,ome
-imsel2* or send some one to in2orm t-e t-ree eldest .0ardians o2
t-e law* and t-ree o2 t-e women w-o -a4e t-e ,are o2 marria.es) and
let t-em loo6 to t-e matter and 10nis- yo0t-20l e4il9doers wit-
stri1es and bonds i2 t-ey are 0nder t-irty years o2 a.e* t-at is to
say* i2 t-ey be men* or i2 t-ey be women* let t-em 0nder.o t-e same
10nis-ment 01 to 2orty years o2 a.e/ B0t i2* w-en t-ey are still
more ad4an,ed in years* t-ey ,ontin0e t-e same ne.le,t o2 t-eir
1arents* and do any -0rt to any o2 t-em* let t-em be bro0.-t be2ore
a ,o0rt in w-i,- e4ery sin.le one o2 t-e eldest ,iti<ens s-all be
t-e j0d.es* and i2 t-e o22ender be ,on4i,ted* let t-e ,o0rt
determine w-at -e o0.-t to 1ay or s022er* and any 1enalty may be
im1osed on -im w-i,- a man ,an 1ay or s022er/ I2 t-e 1erson w-o -as
been wron.ed be 0nable to in2orm t-e ma.istrates* let any 2reeman
w-o -ears o2 -is ,ase in2orm* and i2 -e do not* -e s-all be deemed
base* and s-all be liable to -a4e a s0it 2or dama.e bro0.-t a.ainst
-im by any one w-o li6es/ And i2 a sla4e in2orm* -e s-all re,ei4e
2reedom) and i2 -e be t-e sla4e o2 t-e inj0rer or inj0red 1arty* -e
s-all be set 2ree by t-e ma.istrates* or i2 -e belon. to any ot-er
,iti<en* t-e 10bli, s-all 1ay a 1ri,e on -is be-al2 to t-e owner)
and let t-e ma.istrates ta6e -eed t-at no one wron.s -im o0t o2
re4en.e* be,a0se -e -as .i4en in2ormation/
Cases in w-i,- one man inj0res anot-er by 1oisons* and w-i,- 1ro4e
2atal* -a4e been already dis,0ssed) b0t abo0t ot-er ,ases in w-i,- a
1erson intentionally and o2 mali,e -arms anot-er wit- meats* or
drin6s* or ointments* not-in. -as as yet been determined/ "or t-ere
are two 6inds o2 1oisons 0sed amon. men* w-i,- ,annot ,learly be
distin.0is-ed/ #-ere is t-e 6ind j0st now e:1li,itly mentioned*
w-i,- inj0res bodies by t-e 0se o2 ot-er bodies a,,ordin. to a nat0ral
law) t-ere is also anot-er 6ind w-i,- 1ers0ades t-e more darin.
,lass t-at t-ey ,an do inj0ry by sor,eries* and in,antations* and
ma.i, 6nots* as t-ey are termed* and ma6es ot-ers belie4e t-at t-ey
abo4e all 1ersons are inj0red by t-e 1owers o2 t-e ma.i,ian/ !ow it is
not easy to 6now t-e nat0re o2 all t-ese t-in.s) nor i2 a man do
6now ,an -e readily 1ers0ade ot-ers to belie4e -im/ And w-en men are
dist0rbed in t-eir minds at t-e si.-t o2 wa:en ima.es 2i:ed eit-er
at t-eir doors* or in a 1la,e w-ere t-ree ways meet* or on t-e
se10l,-res o2 1arents* t-ere is no 0se in tryin. to 1ers0ade t-em t-at
t-ey s-o0ld des1ise all s0,- t-in.s be,a0se t-ey -a4e no ,ertain
6nowled.e abo0t t-em/ B0t we m0st -a4e a law in two 1arts*
,on,ernin. 1oisonin.* in w-i,-e4er o2 t-e two ways t-e attem1t is
made* and we m0st entreat* and e:-ort* and ad4ise men not to -a4e
re,o0rse to s0,- 1ra,ti,es* by w-i,- t-ey s,are t-e m0ltit0de o0t o2
t-eir wits* as i2 t-ey were ,-ildren* ,om1ellin. t-e le.islator and
t-e j0d.e to -eal t-e 2ears w-i,- t-e sor,erer aro0ses* and to tell
t-em in t-e 2irst 1la,e* t-at -e w-o attem1ts to 1oison or en,-ant
ot-ers 6nows not w-at -e is doin.* eit-er as re.ards t-e body
>0nless -e -as a 6nowled.e o2 medi,ine?* or as re.ards -is
en,-antments >0nless -e -a11ens to be a 1ro1-et or di4iner?/ Let t-e
law* t-en* r0n as 2ollows abo0t 1oisonin. or wit,-,ra2t(9$e w-o
em1loys 1oison to do any inj0ry* not 2atal* to a man -imsel2* or to
-is ser4ants* or any inj0ry* w-et-er 2atal or not* to -is ,attle or
-is bees* i2 -e be a 1-ysi,ian* and be ,on4i,ted o2 1oisonin.* s-all
be 10nis-ed wit- deat-) or i2 -e be a 1ri4ate 1erson* t-e ,o0rt
s-all determine w-at -e is to 1ay or s022er/ B0t -e w-o seems to be
t-e sort o2 man inj0res ot-ers by ma.i, 6nots* or en,-antments* or
in,antations* or any o2 t-e li6e 1ra,ti,es* i2 -e be a 1ro1-et or
di4iner* let -im die) and i2* not bein. a 1ro1-et* -e be ,on4i,ted
o2 wit,-,ra2t* as in t-e 1re4io0s ,ase* let t-e ,o0rt 2i: w-at -e
o0.-t to 1ay or s022er/
W-en a man does anot-er any inj0ry by t-e2t or 4iolen,e* 2or t-e
.reater inj0ry let -im 1ay .reater dama.es to t-e inj0red man* and
less 2or t-e smaller inj0ry) b0t in all ,ases* w-ate4er t-e inj0ry may
-a4e been* as m0,- as will ,om1ensate t-e loss/ And besides t-e
,om1ensation o2 t-e wron.* let a man 1ay a 20rt-er 1enalty 2or t-e
,-astisement o2 -is o22en,e( -e w-o -as done t-e wron. insti.ated by
t-e 2olly o2 anot-er* t-ro0.- t-e li.-t-eartedness o2 yo0t- or t-e
li6e* s-all 1ay a li.-ter 1enalty) b0t -e w-o -as inj0red anot-er
t-ro0.- -is own 2olly* w-en o4er,ome by 1leas0re or 1ain* in
,owardly 2ear* or l0st* or en4y* or im1la,able an.er* s-all end0re a
-ea4ier 10nis-ment/ !ot t-at -e is 10nis-ed be,a0se -e did wron.*
2or t-at w-i,- is done ,an ne4er be 0ndone* b0t in order t-at in
20t0re times* -e* and t-ose w-o see -im ,orre,ted* may 0tterly -ate
inj0sti,e* or at any rate abate m0,- o2 t-eir e4il9doin./ $a4in. an
eye to all t-ese t-in.s* t-e law* li6e a .ood ar,-er* s-o0ld aim at
t-e ri.-t meas0re o2 10nis-ment* and in all ,ases at t-e deser4ed
10nis-ment/ In t-e attainment o2 t-is t-e j0d.e s-all be a
2ellow9wor6er wit- t-e le.islator* w-ene4er t-e law lea4es to -im to
determine w-at t-e o22ender s-all s022er or 1ay) and t-e le.islator*
li6e a 1ainter* s-all .i4e a ro0.- s6et,- o2 t-e ,ases in w-i,- t-e
law is to be a11lied/ #-is is w-at we m0st do* +e.ill0s and
Cleinias* in t-e best and 2airest manner t-at we ,an* sayin. w-at
t-e 10nis-ments are to be o2 all a,tions o2 t-e2t and 4iolen,e* and
.i4in. laws o2 s0,- a 6ind as t-e &ods and sons o2 &ods wo0ld -a4e
0s .i4e/
I2 a man is mad -e s-all not be at lar.e in t-e ,ity* b0t -is
relations s-all 6ee1 -im at -ome in any way w-i,- t-ey ,an) or i2 not*
let t-em 1ay a 1enalty9-e w-o is o2 t-e -i.-est ,lass s-all 1ay a
1enalty o2 one -0ndred dra,-mae* w-et-er -e be a sla4e or a 2reeman
w-om -e ne.le,ts) and -e o2 t-e se,ond ,lass s-all 1ay 2o0r92i2t-s
o2 a mina) and -e o2 t-e t-ird ,lass t-ree92i2t-s) and -e o2 t-e
2o0rt- ,lass two92i2t-s/ !ow t-ere are many sorts o2 madness* some
arisin. o0t o2 disease* w-i,- we -a4e already mentioned) and t-ere are
ot-er 6inds* w-i,- ori.inate in an e4il and 1assionate tem1erament*
and are in,reased by bad ed0,ation) o0t o2 a sli.-t ;0arrel t-is ,lass
o2 madmen will o2ten raise a storm o2 ab0se a.ainst one anot-er* and
not-in. o2 t-at sort o0.-t to be allowed to o,,0r in a well9ordered
state/ Let t-is* t-en* be t-e law abo0t ab0se* w-i,- s-all relate to
all ,ases(9!o one s-all s1ea6 e4il o2 anot-er) and w-en a man dis10tes
wit- anot-er -e s-all tea,- and learn o2 t-e dis10tant and t-e
,om1any* b0t -e s-all abstain 2rom e4ils1ea6in.) 2or o0t o2 t-e
im1re,ations w-i,- men 0tter a.ainst one anot-er* and t-e 2eminine
-abit o2 ,astin. as1ersions on one anot-er* and 0sin. 2o0l names*
o0t o2 words li.-t as air* in 4ery deed t-e .reatest enmities and
-atreds s1rin. 01/ "or t-e s1ea6er .rati2ies -is an.er* w-i,- is an
0n.ra,io0s element o2 -is nat0re) and n0rsin. 01 -is wrat- by t-e
entertainment o2 e4il t-o0.-ts* and e:a,erbatin. t-at 1art o2 -is so0l
w-i,- was 2ormerly ,i4ili<ed by ed0,ation* -e li4es in a state o2
sa4a.eness and moroseness* and 1ays a bitter 1enalty 2or -is an.er/
And in s0,- ,ases almost all men ta6e to sayin. somet-in. ridi,0lo0s
abo0t t-eir o11onent* and t-ere is no man w-o is in t-e -abit o2
la0.-in. at anot-er w-o does not miss 4irt0e and earnestness
alto.et-er* or lose t-e better -al2 o2 .reatness/ W-ere2ore let no one
0tter any ta0ntin. word at a tem1le* or at t-e 10bli, sa,ri2i,es* or
at .ames* or in t-e a.ora* or in a ,o0rt o2 j0sti,e* or in any
10bli, assembly/ And let t-e ma.istrate w-o 1resides on t-ese
o,,asions ,-astise an o22ender* and -e s-all be blameless) b0t i2 -e
2ails in doin. so* -e s-all not ,laim t-e 1ri<e o2 4irt0e) 2or -e is
one w-o -eeds not t-e laws* and does not do w-at t-e le.islator
,ommands/ And i2 in any ot-er 1la,e any one ind0l.es in t-ese sort
o2 re4ilin.s* w-et-er -e -as be.0n t-e ;0arrel or is only retaliatin.*
let any elder w-o is 1resent s011ort t-e law* and ,ontrol wit- blows
t-ose w-o ind0l.e in 1assion* w-i,- is anot-er .reat e4il) and i2 -e
do not* let -im be liable to 1ay t-e a11ointed 1enalty/ And we say
now* t-at -e w-o deals in re1roa,-es a.ainst ot-ers ,annot re1roa,-
t-em wit-o0t attem1tin. to ridi,0le t-em) and t-is* w-en done in a
moment o2 an.er* is w-at we ma6e matter o2 re1roa,- a.ainst -im/ B0t
t-en* do we admit into o0r state t-e ,omi, writers w-o are so 2ond
o2 ma6in. man6ind ridi,0lo0s* i2 t-ey attem1t in a .ood9nat0red manner
to t0rn t-e la0.- a.ainst o0r ,iti<ens3 or do we draw t-e
distin,tion o2 jest and earnest* and allow a man to ma6e 0se o2
ridi,0le in jest and wit-o0t an.er abo0t any t-in. or 1erson) t-o0.-
as we were sayin.* not i2 -e be an.ry -a4e a set 10r1ose3 We 2orbid
earnest9t-at is 0nalterably 2i:ed) b0t we -a4e still to say w-o are to
be san,tioned or not to be san,tioned by t-e law in t-e em1loyment
o2 inno,ent -0mo0r/ A ,omi, 1oet* or ma6er o2 iambi, or satiri,al
lyri, 4erse* s-all not be 1ermitted to ridi,0le any o2 t-e ,iti<ens*
eit-er by word or li6eness* eit-er in an.er or wit-o0t an.er/ And i2
any one is disobedient* t-e j0d.es s-all eit-er at on,e e:1el -im 2rom
t-e ,o0ntry* or -e s-all 1ay a 2ine o2 t-ree minae* w-i,- s-all be
dedi,ated to t-e &od w-o 1resides o4er t-e ,ontests/ #-ose only w-o
-a4e re,ei4ed 1ermission s-all be allowed to write 4erses at one
anot-er* b0t t-ey s-all be wit-o0t an.er and in jest) in an.er and
in serio0s earnest t-ey s-all not be allowed/ #-e de,ision o2 t-is
matter s-all be le2t to t-e s01erintendent o2 t-e .eneral ed0,ation o2
t-e yo0n.* and w-ate4er -e may li,ense* t-e writer s-all be allowed to
1rod0,e* and w-ate4er -e reje,ts let not t-e 1oet -imsel2 e:-ibit*
or e4er tea,- anybody else* sla4e or 2reeman* 0nder t-e 1enalty o2
bein. dis-ono0red* and -eld disobedient to t-e laws/
!ow -e is not to be 1itied w-o is -0n.ry* or w-o s022ers any
bodily 1ain* b0t -e w-o is tem1erate* or -as some ot-er 4irt0e* or
1art o2 a 4irt0e* and at t-e same time s022ers 2rom mis2ort0ne) it
wo0ld be an e:traordinary t-in. i2 s0,- an one* w-et-er sla4e or
2reeman* were 0tterly 2orsa6en and 2ell into t-e e:tremes o2 1o4erty
in any tolerably well9ordered ,ity or .o4ernment/ W-ere2ore t-e
le.islator may sa2ely ma6e a law a11li,able to s0,- ,ases in t-e
2ollowin. terms(9Let t-ere be no be..ars in o0r state) and i2
anybody be.s* see6in. to 1i,6 01 a li4eli-ood by 0na4ailin. 1rayers*
let t-e wardens o2 t-e a.ora t0rn -im o0t o2 t-e a.ora* and t-e
wardens o2 t-e ,ity o0t o2 t-e ,ity* and t-e wardens o2 t-e ,o0ntry
send -im o0t o2 any ot-er 1arts o2 t-e land a,ross t-e border* in
order t-at t-e land may be ,leared o2 t-is sort o2 animal/
I2 a sla4e o2 eit-er se: inj0re anyt-in.* w-i,- is not -is or -er
own* t-ro0.- ine:1erien,e* or some im1ro1er 1ra,ti,e* and t-e 1erson
w-o s022ers dama.e be not -imsel2 in 1art to blame* t-e master o2
t-e sla4e w-o -as done t-e -arm s-all eit-er ma6e 20ll satis2a,tion*
or .i4e 01 t-e t-e sla4e w-o -as done -as done t-e inj0ry/ B0t i2
master ar.0e t-at t-e ,-ar.e -as arisen by ,oll0sion between t-e
inj0red 1arty and t-e inj0rer* wit- t-e 4iew o2 obtainin. t-e sla4e*
let -im s0e t-e 1erson* w-o says t-at -e -as been inj0red* 2or
mal1ra,ti,es/ And i2 -e .ain a ,on4i,tion* let -im re,ei4e do0ble
t-e 4al0e w-i,- t-e ,o0rt 2i:es as t-e 1ri,e o2 t-e sla4e) and i2 -e
lose -is s0it* let -im ma6e amends 2or t-e inj0ry* and .i4e 01 t-e
sla4e/ And i2 a beast o2 b0rden* or -orse* or do.* or any ot-er
animal* inj0re t-e 1ro1erty o2 a nei.-bo0r* t-e owner s-all in li6e
manner 1ay 2or t-e inj0ry/
I2 any man re20ses to be a witness* -e w-o wants -im s-all s0mmon
-im* and -e w-o is s0mmoned s-all ,ome to t-e trial) and i2 -e 6nows
and is willin. to bear witness* let -im bear witness* b0t i2 -e says
-e does not 6now let -im swear by t-e t-ree di4inities 5e0s* and
A1ollo* and #-emis* t-at -e does not* and -a4e no more to do wit-
t-e ,a0se/ And -e w-o is s0mmoned to .i4e witness and does not
answer to -is s0mmoner* s-all be liable 2or t-e -arm w-i,- ens0es
a,,ordin. to law/ And i2 a 1erson ,alls 01 as a witness any one w-o is
a,tin. as a j0d.e* let -im .i4e -is witness* b0t -e s-all not
a2terwards 4ote in t-e ,a0se/ A 2ree woman may .i4e -er witness and
1lead* i2 s-e be more t-an 2orty years o2 a.e* and may brin. an a,tion
i2 s-e -a4e no -0sband) b0t i2 -er -0sband be ali4e s-e s-all only
be allowed to bear witness/ A sla4e o2 eit-er se: and a ,-ild s-all be
allowed to .i4e e4iden,e and to 1lead* b0t only in ,ases o2 m0rder)
and t-ey m0st 1rod0,e s022i,ient s0reties t-at t-ey will ,ertainly
remain 0ntil t-e trial* in ,ase t-ey s-o0ld be ,-ar.ed wit- 2alse
witness/ And eit-er o2 t-e 1arties in a ,a0se may brin. an
a,,0sation o2 1erj0ry a.ainst witnesses* to0,-in. t-eir e4iden,e in
w-ole or in 1art* i2 -e asserts t-at s0,- e4iden,e -as been .i4en) b0t
t-e a,,0sation m0st be bro0.-t 1re4io0s to t-e 2inal de,ision o2 t-e
,a0se/ #-e ma.istrates s-all 1reser4e t-e a,,0sations o2 2alse
witness* and -a4e t-em 6e1t 0nder t-e seal o2 bot- 1arties* and
1rod0,e t-em on t-e day w-en t-e trial 2or 2alse witness ta6es
1la,e/ I2 a man be twi,e ,on4i,ted o2 2alse witness* -e s-all not be
re;0ired* and i2 t-ri,e* -e s-all not be allowed to bear witness)
and i2 -e dare to witness a2ter -e -as been ,on4i,ted t-ree times* let
any one w-o 1leases in2orm a.ainst -im to t-e ma.istrates* and let t-e
ma.istrates -and -im o4er to t-e ,o0rt* and i2 -e be ,on4i,ted -e
s-all be 10nis-ed wit- deat-/ And in any ,ase in w-i,- t-e e4iden,e is
ri.-tly 2o0nd to be 2alse* and yet to -a4e .i4en t-e 4i,tory to -im
w-o wins t-e s0it* and more t-an -al2 t-e witnesses are ,ondemned* t-e
de,ision w-i,- was .ained by t-ese means s-all be a dis,0ssion and a
de,ision as to w-et-er t-e s0it was determined by t-at 2alse
e4iden,e or and in w-i,-e4er way t-e de,ision may be .i4en* t-e
1re4io0s s0it s-all be determined a,,ordin.ly/
#-ere are many noble t-in.s in -0man li2e* b0t to most o2 t-em
atta,- e4ils w-i,- are 2ated to ,orr01t and s1oil t-em/ Is not j0sti,e
noble* w-i,- -as been t-e ,i4ili<er o2 -0manity3 $ow t-en ,an t-e
ad4o,ate o2 j0sti,e be ot-er t-an noble3 And yet 01on t-is
1ro2ession w-i,- is 1resented to 0s 0nder t-e 2air name o2 art -as
,ome an e4il re10tation/ In t-e 2irst 1la,e) we are told t-at by
in.enio0s 1leas and t-e -el1 o2 an ad4o,ate t-e law enables a man to
win a 1arti,0lar ,a0se* w-et-er j0st or 0nj0st) and t-e 1ower o2
s1ee,- w-i,- is t-ereby im1arted* are at t-e ser4i,e o2 -im s-o is
willin. to 1ay 2or t-em/ !ow in o0r state t-is so9,alled art*
w-et-er really an art or only an e:1erien,e and 1ra,ti,e destit0te
o2 any art* o0.-t i2 1ossible ne4er to ,ome into e:isten,e* or i2
e:istin. amon. 0s s-o0ld litten to t-e re;0est o2 t-e le.islator and
.o away into anot-er land* and not s1ea6 ,ontrary to j0sti,e/ I2 t-e
o22enders obey we say no more) b0t t-ose w-o disobey* t-e 4oi,e o2 t-e
law is as 2ollows(9I2 anyone t-in6s t-at -e will 1er4ert t-e 1ower
o2 j0sti,e in t-e minds o2 t-e j0d.es* and 0nseasonably liti.ate or
ad4o,ate* let any one w-o li6es indi,t -im 2or mal1ra,ti,es o2 law and
dis-onest ad4o,a,y* and let -im be j0d.ed in t-e ,o0rt o2 sele,t
j0d.es) and i2 -e be ,on4i,ted* let t-e ,o0rt determine w-et-er -e may
be s011osed to a,t 2rom a lo4e o2 money or 2rom ,ontentio0sness/ And
i2 -e is s011osed to a,t 2rom ,ontentio0sness* t-e ,o0rt s-all 2i: a
time d0rin. w-i,- -e s-all not be allowed to instit0te or 1lead a
,a0se) and i2 -e is s011osed to a,t as be does 2rom lo4e o2 money*
in ,ase -e be a stran.er* -e s-all lea4e t-e ,o0ntry* and ne4er ret0rn
0nder 1enalty o2 deat-) b0t i2 -e be a ,iti<en* -e s-all die*
be,a0se -e is a lo4er o2 money* in w-ate4er manner .ained) and
e;0ally* i2 -e be j0d.ed to -a4e a,ted more t-an on,e 2rom
,ontentio0sness* -e s-all die/
BOOK EII
I2 a -erald or an ambassador ,arry a 2alse messa.e 2rom o0r ,ity
to any ot-er* or brin. ba,6 a 2alse messa.e 2rom t-e ,ity to w-i,-
-e is sent* or be 1ro4ed to -a4e bro0.-t ba,6* w-et-er 2rom 2riends or
enemies* in -is ,a1a,ity o2 -erald or ambassador* w-at t-ey -a4e ne4er
said* let -im be indi,ted 2or -a4in. 4iolated* ,ontrary to t-e law*
t-e ,ommands and d0ties im1osed 01on -im by $ermes and 5e0s* and let
t-ere be a 1enalty 2i:ed* w-i,- -e s-all s022er or 1ay i2 -e be
,on4i,ted/
#-e2t is a mean* and robbery a s-ameless t-in.) and none o2 t-e sons
o2 5e0s deli.-t in 2ra0d and 4iolen,e* or e4er 1ra,tised* eit-er/
W-ere2ore let no one be del0ded by 1oets or myt-olo.ers into a
mista6en belie2 o2 s0,- s0,- t-in.s* nor let -im s011ose* w-en -e
t-ie4es or is .0ilty o2 4iolen,e* t-at -e is doin. not-in. base* b0t
only w-at t-e &ods t-emsel4es do/ "or s0,- tales are 0ntr0e and
im1robable) and -e w-o steals or robs ,ontrary to t-e law* is ne4er
eit-er a &od or t-e son o2 a &od) o2 t-is t-e le.islator o0.-t to be
better in2ormed t-an all t-e* 1oets 10t to.et-er/ $a11y is -e and
may -e be 2ore4er -a11y* w-o is 1ers0aded and listens to o0r words)
b0t -e w-o disobeys s-all -a4e to ,ontend a.ainst t-e 2ollowin.
law(9I2 a man steal anyt-in. belon.in. to t-e 10bli,* w-et-er t-at
w-i,- -e steals be m0,- or little* -e s-all -a4e t-e same
10nis-ment/ "or -e w-o steals a little steals wit- t-e same wis- as -e
w-o steals m0,-* b0t wit- less 1ower* and -e w-o ta6es 01 a .reater
amo0nt) not -a4in. de1osited it* is w-olly 0nj0st/ W-ere2ore t-e law
is not dis1osed to in2li,t a less 1enalty on t-e one t-an on t-e ot-er
be,a0se -is t-e2t* is less* b0t on t-e .ro0nd t-at t-e t-ie2 may
1ossibly be in one ,ase still ,0rable* and may in anot-er ,ase be
in,0rable/ I2 any one ,on4i,t in a ,o0rt o2 law a stran.er or a
sla4e o2 a t-e2t o2 10bli, 1ro1erty* let t-e ,o0rt determine w-at
10nis-ment -e s-all s022er* or w-at 1enalty -e s-all 1ay* bearin. in
mind t-at -e is 1robably not in,0rable/ B0t t-e ,iti<en w-o -as been
bro0.-t 01 as o0r ,iti<ens will -a4e been* i2 -e be 2o0nd .0ilty o2
robbin. -is ,o0ntry by 2ra0d or 4iolen,e* w-et-er -e be ,a0.-t in
t-e a,t or not* s-all be 10nis-ed wit- deat-) 2or -e is in,0rable/
!ow 2or e:1editions o2 war m0,- ,onsideration and many laws are
re;0ired) t-e .reat 1rin,i1le o2 all is t-at no one o2 eit-er se:
s-o0ld be wit-o0t a ,ommander) nor s-o0ld t-e mind o2 any one be
a,,0stomed to do anyt-in.* eit-er in jest or earnest* o2 -is own
motion* b0t in war and in 1ea,e -e s-o0ld loo6 to and 2ollow -is
leader* e4en in t-e least t-in.s bein. 0nder -is .0idan,e) 2or
e:am1le* -e s-o0ld stand or mo4e* or e:er,ise* or was-* or ta6e -is
meals* or .et 01 in t-e ni.-t to 6ee1 .0ard and deli4er messa.es
w-en -e is bidden) and in t-e -o0r o2 dan.er -e s-o0ld not 10rs0e
and not retreat e:,e1t by order o2 -is s01erior) and in a word* not
tea,- t-e so0l or a,,0stom -er to 6now or 0nderstand -ow to do
anyt-in. a1art 2rom ot-ers/ O2 all soldiers t-e li2e s-o0ld be
always and in all t-in.s as 2ar as 1ossible in ,ommon and to.et-er)
t-ere neit-er is nor e4er will be a -i.-er* or better* or more
s,ienti2i, 1rin,i1le t-an t-is 2or t-e attainment o2 sal4ation and
4i,tory in war/ And we o0.-t in time o2 1ea,e 2rom yo0t- 01wards to
1ra,tise t-is -abit o2 ,ommandin. ot-ers* and o2 bein. ,ommanded by
ot-ers) anar,-y s-o0ld -a4e no 1la,e in t-e li2e o2 man or o2 t-e
beasts w-o are s0bje,t to man/ I may add t-at all dan,es o0.-t to be
1er2ormed wit- 4iew to military e:,ellen,e) and a.ility and ease
s-o0ld be ,0lti4ated 2or t-e same obje,t* and also end0ran,e o2 t-e
want o2 meats and drin6s* and o2 winter ,old and s0mmer -eat* and o2
-ard ,o0,-es) and* abo4e all* ,are s-o0ld be ta6en not to destroy
t-e 1e,0liar ;0alities o2 t-e -ead and t-e 2eet by s0rro0ndin. t-em
wit- e:traneo0s ,o4erin.s* and so -inderin. t-eir nat0ral .rowt- o2
-air and soles/ "or t-ese are t-e e:tremities* and o2 all t-e 1arts o2
t-e body* w-et-er t-ey are 1reser4ed or not is o2 t-e .reatest
,onse;0en,e) t-e one is t-e ser4ant o2 t-e w-ole body* and t-e ot-er
t-e master* in w-om all t-e r0lin. senses are by nat0re set/ Let t-e
yo0n. man ima.ine t-at -e -ears in w-at -as 1re,eded t-e 1raises o2
t-e military li2e) t-e law s-all be as 2ollows(9$e s-all ser4e in
war w-o is on t-e roll or a11ointed to some s1e,ial ser4i,e* and i2
any one is absent 2rom ,owardi,e* and wit-o0t t-e lea4e o2 t-e
.enerals) -e s-all be indi,ted be2ore t-e military ,ommanders 2or
2ail0re o2 ser4i,e w-en t-e army ,omes -ome) and t-e soldiers s-all be
-is j0d.es) t-e -ea4y armed* and t-e ,a4alry* and t-e ot-er arms o2
t-e ser4i,e s-all 2orm se1arate ,o0rts) and t-ey s-all brin. t-e
-ea4y9armed be2ore t-e -ea4y9armed* and t-e -orsemen be2ore t-e
-orsemen* and t-e ot-ers in li6e manner be2ore t-eir 1eers) and -e w-o
is 2o0nd .0ilty s-all ne4er be allowed to ,om1ete 2or any 1ri<e o2
4alo0r* or indi,t anot-er 2or not ser4in. on an e:1edition* or be an
a,,0ser at all in any military matters/ +oreo4er* t-e ,o0rt s-all
20rt-er determine w-at 10nis-ment -e s-all s022er* or w-at 1enalty
-e s-all 1ay/ W-en t-e s0its 2or 2ail0re o2 ser4i,e are ,om1leted* t-e
leaders o2 t-e se4eral 6inds o2 troo1s s-all a.ain -old an assembly*
and t-ey s-all adj0d.e t-e 1ri<es o2 4alo0r) and -e w-o li6es s-all
.i4e j0d.ment in -is own bran,- o2 t-e ser4i,e* sayin. not-in. abo0t
any 2ormer e:1edition* nor 1rod0,in. any 1roo2 or witnesses to ,on2irm
-is statement* b0t s1ea6in. only o2 t-e 1resent o,,asion/ #-e ,rown o2
4i,tory s-all be an oli4e wreat- w-i,- t-e 4i,tor s-all o22er 01 t-e
tem1le o2 any war9.od w-om -e li6es* addin. an ins,ri1tion 2or a
testimony to last d0rin. li2e* t-at s0,- an one -as re,ei4ed t-e
2irst* t-e se,ond* or 1ri<e/ I2 any one .oes on an e:1edition* and
ret0rns -ome be2ore t-e a11ointed time* w-en t-e .enerals/ -a4e not
wit-drawn t-e army* be s-all be indi,ted 2or desertion be2ore t-e same
1ersons w-o too6 ,o.nisan,e o2 2ail0re o2 ser4i,e* and i2 -e be
2o0nd .0ilty* t-e same 10nis-ment s-all be in2li,ted on -im/
!ow e4ery man w-o is en.a.ed in any s0it o0.-t to be 4ery ,are20l o2
brin.in. 2alse witness a.ainst any one* eit-er intentionally or
0nintentionally* i2 -e ,an -el1) 2or j0sti,e is tr0ly said to be an
-ono0rable maiden* and 2alse-ood is nat0rally re10.nant to -ono0r
and j0sti,e/ A witness o0.-t to be 4ery ,are20l not to si2t a.ainst
j0sti,e* as 2or e:am1le in w-at relates to t-e t-rowin. away o2
arms9-e m0st distin.0is- t-e t-rowin. t-em away w-en ne,essary* and
not ma6e t-at a re1roa,-* or brin. in a,tion a.ainst some inno,ent
1erson on t-at a,,o0nt/ #o ma6e t-e distin,tion maybe di22i,0lt) b0t
still t-e law m0st attem1t to de2ine t-e di22erent 6inds in some
way/ Let me endea4o0r to e:1lain my meanin. by an an,ient tale(9I2
Patro,l0s -ad been bro0.-t to t-e tent still ali4e b0t wit-o0t -is
arms >and t-is -as -a11ened to inn0merable 1ersons?* t-e ori.inal
arms* w-i,- t-e 1oet says were 1resented to Pele0s by t-e &ods as a
n01tial .i2t w-en -e married/ #-etis* remainin. in t-e -ands o2
$e,tor* t-en t-e base s1irits o2 t-at day mi.-t -a4e re1roa,-ed t-e
son o2 +enoeti0s wit- -a4in. ,ast away -is arms/ A.ain* t-ere is t-e
,ase o2 t-ose w-o -a4e been t-rown down 1re,i1i,es and lost t-eir
arms) and o2 t-ose w-o at sea* and in stormy 1la,es* -a4e been
s0ddenly o4erw-elmed by 2loods o2 water) and t-ere are n0mberless
t-in.s o2 t-is 6ind w-i,- one mi.-t add0,e by way o2 e:ten0ation*
and wit- t-e 4iew o2 j0sti2yin. a mis2ort0ne w-i,- is easily
misre1resented/ We m0st* t-ere2ore* endea4o0r to di4ide to t-e best o2
o0r 1ower t-e .reater and more serio0s e4il 2rom t-e lesser/ And a
distin,tion may be drawn in t-e 0se o2 terms o2 re1roa,-/ A man does
not always deser4e to be ,alled t-e t-rower away o2 -is s-ield) -e may
be only t-e loser o2 -is arms/ "or t-ere is a .reat or rat-er absol0te
di22eren,e between -im w-o is de1ri4ed o2 -is arms by a s022i,ient
2or,e* and -im w-o 4ol0ntarily lets -is s-ield .o/ Let t-e law t-en be
as 2ollows(9I2 a 1erson -a4in. arms is o4erta6en by t-e enemy and does
not t0rn ro0nd and de2end -imsel2* b0t lets t-em .o 4ol0ntarily or
t-rows t-em away* ,-oosin. a base li2e and a swi2t es,a1e rat-er
t-an a ,o0ra.eo0s and noble and blessed deat-9in s0,- a ,ase o2 t-e
t-rowin. away o2 arms let j0sti,e be done* b0t t-e j0d.e need ta6e
no note o2 t-e ,ase j0st now mentioned) 2or t-e bad man o0.-t always
to be 10nis-ed* in t-e -o1e t-at -e may be im1ro4ed* b0t not t-e
0n2ort0nate* 2or t-ere is no ad4anta.e in t-at/ And w-at s-all be
t-e 10nis-ment s0ited to -im w-o -as t-rown away -is wea1ons o2
de2en,e3 #radition says t-at Caene0s* t-e #-essalian* was ,-an.ed by a
&od 2rom a woman into a man) b0t t-e ,on4erse mira,le ,annot now be
wro0.-t* or no 10nis-ment wo0ld be more 1ro1er t-an t-at t-e man w-o
t-rows away -is s-ield s-o0ld be ,-an.ed into a woman/ #-is -owe4er is
im1ossible* and t-ere2ore let 0s ma6e a law as nearly li6e t-is as
we ,an9t-at -e w-o lo4es -is li2e too well s-all be in no dan.er 2or
t-e remainder o2 -is days* b0t s-all li4e 2or e4er 0nder t-e sti.ma o2
,owardi,e/ And let t-e law be in t-e 2ollowin. terms(9W-en a man is
2o0nd .0ilty o2 dis.ra,e20lly t-rowin. away -is arms in war* no
.eneral or military o22i,er s-all allow -im to ser4e as a soldier*
or .i4e -im any 1la,e at all in t-e ran6s o2 soldiers) and t-e o22i,er
w-o .i4es t-e ,oward any 1la,e* s-all s022er a 1enalty w-i,- t-e
10bli, e:aminer s-all e:a,t o2 -im) and i2 -e be o2 t-e -i.-est
dass* -e s-all 1ay a t-o0sand dra,-mae) or i2 -e be o2 t-e se,ond
,lass* 2i4e minae) or i2 -e be o2 t-e t-ird* t-ree minae) or i2 -e
be o2 t-e 2o0rt- ,lass* one mina/ And -e w-o is 2o0nd .0ilty o2
,owardi,e* s-all not only be dismissed 2rom manly dan.ers* w-i,- is
a dis.ra,e a11ro1riate to -is nat0re* b0t -e s-all 1ay a t-o0sand
dra,-mae* i2 -e be o2 t-e -i.-est ,lass* and 2i4e minae i2 -e be o2
t-e se,ond ,lass* and t-ree i2 -e be o2 t-e t-ird ,lass* and a mina*
li6e t-e 1re,edin.* i2 -e be o2 t-e 2o0rt- ,lass/
W-at re.0lations will be 1ro1er abo0t e:aminers* seein. t-at some o2
o0r ma.istrates are ele,ted by lot* and 2or a year* and some 2or a
lon.er time and 2rom sele,ted 1ersons3 O2 s0,- ma.istrates* w-o will
be a s022i,ient ,ensor or e:aminer* i2 any o2 t-em* wei.-ed down by
t-e 1ress0re o2 o22i,e or -is own inability to s011ort t-e di.nity
o2 -is o22i,e* be .0ilty o2 any ,roo6ed 1ra,ti,e3 It is by no means
easy to 2ind a ma.istrate w-o e:,els ot-er ma.istrates in 4irt0e*
b0t still we m0st endea4o0r to dis,o4er some ,ensor or e:aminer w-o is
more t-an man/ "or t-e tr0t- is* t-at t-ere are many elements o2
dissol0tion in a state* as t-ere are also in a s-i1* or in an
animal) t-ey all -a4e t-eir ,ords* and .irders* and sinews9one
nat0re di220sed in many 1la,es* and ,alled by many names) and t-e
o22i,e o2 e:aminer is a most im1ortant element in t-e 1reser4ation and
dissol0tion o2 states/ "or i2 t-e e:aminers are better t-an t-e
ma.istrates* and t-eir d0ty is 20l2illed j0stly and wit-o0t blame*
t-en t-e w-ole state and ,o0ntry 2lo0ris-es and is -a11y) b0t i2 t-e
e:amination o2 t-e ma.istrates is ,arried on in a wron. way* t-en*
by t-e rela:ation o2 t-at j0sti,e w-i,- is t-e 0nitin. 1rin,i1le o2
all ,onstit0tions* e4ery 1ower in t-e state is rent as0nder 2rom e4ery
ot-er) t-ey no lon.er in,line in t-e same dire,tion* b0t 2ill t-e ,ity
wit- 2a,tion* and ma6e many ,ities o0t o2 one* and soon brin. all to
destr0,tion/ W-ere2ore t-e e:aminers o0.-t to be admirable in e4ery
sort o2 4irt0e/ Let 0s in4ent a mode o2 ,reatin. t-em* w-i,- s-all
be as 2ollows(9E4ery year* a2ter t-e s0mmer solsti,e* t-e w-ole ,ity
s-all meet in t-e ,ommon 1re,in,ts o2 $elios and A1ollo* and s-all
1resent to t-e &od t-ree men o0t o2 t-eir own n0mber in t-e manner
2ollowin.(9Ea,- ,iti<en s-all sele,t* not -imsel2* b0t some ot-er
,iti<en w-om -e deems in e4ery way t-e best* and w-o is not less
t-an 2i2ty years o2 a.e/ And o0t o2 t-e sele,ted 1ersons w-o -a4e
t-e .reatest n0mber o2 4otes* t-ey s-all ma6e a 20rt-er sele,tion
0ntil t-ey red0,e t-em to one9-al2* i2 t-ey are an e4en n0mber) b0t i2
t-ey are not an e4en n0mber* t-ey s-all s0btra,t t-e one w-o -as t-e
smallest n0mber o2 4otes* and ma6e t-em an e4en n0mber* and t-en lea4e
t-e -al2 w-i,- -a4e t-e .reat n0mber o2 4otes/ And i2 two 1ersons -a4e
an e;0al n0mber o2 4otes* and t-0s in,rease t-e n0mber beyond
one9-al2* t-ey s-all wit-draw t-e yo0n.er o2 t-e two and do away
wit- t-e e:,ess) and t-en in,l0din. all t-e rest t-ey s-all a.ain
4ote* 0ntil t-ere are le2t t-ree -a4in. an 0ne;0al n0mber o2 4otes/
B0t i2 all t-e t-ree* or two o0t o2 t-e t-ree* -a4e e;0al 4otes* let
t-em ,ommit t-e ele,tion to .ood 2ate and 2ort0ne* and se1arate o22 by
lot t-e 2irst* and t-e se,ond* and t-e t-ird) t-ese t-ey s-all ,rown
wit- an oli4e wreat- and .i4e t-em t-e 1ri<e o2 e:,ellen,e* at t-e
same time 1ro,laimin. to all t-e world t-at t-e ,ity o2 t-e
+a.netes* by 1ro4iden,e o2 t-e &ods* is a.ain 1reser4ed* and
1resents to t-e S0n and to A1ollo -er t-ree best men as
2irst92r0its* to be a ,ommon o22erin. to t-em* a,,ordin. to t-e
an,ient law* as lon. as t-eir li4es answer to t-e j0d.ment 2ormed o2
t-em/ And t-ese s-all a11oint in t-eir 2irst year twel4e e:aminers* to
,ontin0e 0ntil ea,- -as ,om1leted se4enty92i4e years* to w-om t-ree
s-all a2terwards be added yearly) and let t-ese di4ide all t-e
ma.istra,ies into twel4e 1arts* and 1ro4e t-e -olders o2 t-em by e4ery
sort o2 test to w-i,- a 2reeman may be s0bje,ted) and let t-em li4e
w-ile t-ey -old o22i,e in t-e 1re,in,t o2 $elios and A1ollo* in
w-i,- t-ey were ,-osen* and let ea,- one 2orm a j0d.ment o2 some
t-in.s indi4id0ally* and o2 ot-ers in ,om1any wit- -is ,ollea.0es) and
let -im 1la,e a writin. in t-e a.ora abo0t ea,- ma.istra,y* and w-at
t-e ma.istrate o0.-t to s022er or 1ay* a,,ordin. to t-e de,ision o2
t-e e:aminers/ And i2 a ma.istrate does not admit t-at -e -as been
j0stly j0d.ed* let -im brin. t-e e:aminers be2ore t-e sele,t j0d.es*
and i2 -e be a,;0itted by t-eir de,ision* let -im* i2 -e will*
a,,0se t-e e:aminers t-emsel4es) i2* -owe4er* -e be ,on4i,ted* and
-a4e been ,ondemned to deat- by t-e e:aminers* let -im die >and o2
,o0rse -e ,an only die on,e?(9b0t any ot-er 1enalties w-i,- admit o2
bein. do0bled let -im s022er twi,e o4er/
And now let 0s 1ass 0nder re4iew t-e e:aminers t-emsel4es) w-at will
t-eir e:amination be* and -ow ,ond0,ted3 %0rin. t-e li2e o2 t-ese men*
w-om t-e w-ole state ,o0nts wort-y o2 t-e rewards o2 4irt0e* t-ey
s-all -a4e t-e 2irst seat at all 10bli, assemblies* and at all
$elleni, sa,ri2i,es and sa,red missions* and ot-er 10bli, and -oly
,eremonies in w-i,- t-ey s-are/ #-e ,-ie2s o2 ea,- sa,red mission
s-all be sele,ted 2rom t-em* and t-ey only o2 all t-e ,iti<ens s-all
be adorned wit- a ,rown o2 la0rel) t-ey s-all all be 1riests o2 A1ollo
and $elios) and one o2 t-em* w-o is j0d.ed 2irst o2 t-e 1riests
,reated in t-at year* s-all be -i.- 1riest) and t-ey s-all write 01
-is name in ea,- year to be a meas0re o2 time as lon. as t-e ,ity
lasts) and a2ter t-eir deat- t-ey s-all be laid o0t and ,arried to t-e
.ra4e and entombed in a manner di22erent 2rom t-e ot-er ,iti<ens/ #-ey
s-all be de,6ed in a robe all o2 w-ite* and t-ere s-all be no ,ryin.
or lamentation o4er t-em) b0t a ,-or0s o2 2i2teen maidens* and anot-er
o2 boys* s-all stand aro0nd t-e bier on eit-er side* -ymnin. t-e
1raises o2 t-e de1arted 1riests in alternate res1onses* de,larin.
t-eir blessedness in son. all day lon.) and at dawn a -0ndred o2 t-e
yo0t-s w-o 1ra,tise .ymnasti, and w-om t-e relations o2 t-e de1arted
s-all ,-oose* s-all ,arry t-e bier to t-e se10l,-re* t-e yo0n. men
mar,-in. 2irst* dressed in t-e .arb o2 warriors9t-e ,a4alry wit- t-eir
-orses* t-e -ea4y9armed wit- t-eir arms* and t-e ot-ers in li6e
manner/ And boys neat t-e bier and in 2ront o2 it s-all sin. t-eir
national -ymn* and maidens s-all 2ollow be-ind* and wit- t-em t-e
women w-o -a4e 1assed t-e a.e o2 ,-ildbearin.) ne:t* alt-o0.- t-ey are
interdi,ted 2rom ot-er b0rials* let 1riests and 1riestesses 2ollow*
0nless t-e Pyt-ian ora,le 2orbid t-em) 2or t-is b0rial is 2ree 2rom
1oll0tion/ #-e 1la,e o2 b0rial s-all be an oblon. 4a0lted ,-amber
0nder.ro0nd* ,onstr0,ted o2 t02a* w-i,- will last 2or e4er* -a4in.
stone ,o0,-es 1la,ed side by side/ And -ere t-ey will lay t-e
blessed 1erson* and ,o4er t-e se10l,-re wit- a ,ir,0lar mo0nd o2 eart-
and 1lant a .ro4e o2 trees aro0nd on e4ery side b0t one) and on t-at
side t-e se10l,-re s-all be allowed to e:tend 2or e4er* and a new
mo0nd will not be re;0ired/ E4ery year t-ey s-all -a4e ,ontests in
m0si, and .ymnasti,s* and in -orsemans-i1* in -ono0r o2 t-e dead/
#-ese are t-e -ono0rs w-i,- s-all be .i4en to t-ose w-o at t-e
e:amination are 2o0nd blameless) b0t i2 any o2 t-em* tr0stin. to t-e
s,r0tiny bein. o4er* s-o0ld* a2ter t-e j0d.ment -as been .i4en*
mani2est t-e wi,6edness o2 -0man nat0re* let t-e law ordain t-at -e
w-o 1leases s-all indi,t -im* and let t-e ,a0se be tried in t-e
2ollowin. manner/ In t-e 2irst 1la,e* t-e ,o0rt s-all be ,om1osed o2
t-e .0ardians o2 t-e law* and to t-em t-e s0r4i4in. e:aminers s-all be
added* as well as t-e ,o0rt o2 sele,t j0d.es) and let t-e 10rs0er
lay -is indi,tment in t-is 2orm9-e s-all say t-at so9and9so is
0nwort-y o2 t-e 1ri<e o2 4irt0e and o2 -is o22i,e) and i2 t-e
de2endant be ,on4i,ted let -im be de1ri4ed o2 -is o22i,e* and o2 t-e
b0rial* and o2 t-e ot-er -ono0rs .i4en -im/ B0t i2 t-e 1rose,0tor do
not obtain t-e 2i2t- 1art o2 t-e 4otes* let -im* i2 -e be o2 t-e 2irst
dass* 1ay twel4e minae* and ei.-t i2 -e be o2 t-e se,ond ,lass* and
si: i2 -e be o2 t-e t-ird dass* and two minae i2 -e be o2 t-e 2o0rt-
,lass/
#-e so9,alled de,ision o2 -adamant-0s is wort-y o2 all
admiration/ $e 6new t-at t-e men o2 -is own time belie4ed and -ad no
do0bt t-at t-ere were &ods* w-i,- was a reasonable belie2 in t-ose
days* be,a0se most men were t-e sons o2 &ods* and a,,ordin. to
tradition -e was one -imsel2/ $e a11ears to -a4e t-o0.-t t-at -e o0.-t
to ,ommit j0d.ment to no man* b0t to t-e &ods only* and in t-is way
s0its were sim1ly and s1eedily de,ided by -im/ "or -e made t-e two
1arties ta6e an oat- res1e,tin. t-e 1oints in dis10te* and so .ot
rid o2 t-e matter s1eedily and sa2ely/ B0t now t-at a ,ertain
1ortion o2 man6ind do not belie4e at all in t-e e:isten,e o2 t-e &ods*
and ot-ers ima.ine t-at t-ey -a4e no ,are o2 0s* and t-e o1inion o2
most men* and o2 t-e men* is t-at in ret0rn 2or small sa,ri2i,e and
a 2ew 2latterin. words t-ey will be t-eir a,,om1li,es in 10rloinin.
lar.e s0ms and sa4e t-em 2rom many terrible 10nis-ments* t-e way o2
-adamant-0s is no lon.er s0ited to t-e needs o2 j0sti,e) 2or as t-e
needs o2 men abo0t t-e &ods are ,-an.ed* t-e laws s-o0ld also be
,-an.ed)9in t-e .rantin. o2 s0its a rational le.islation o0.-t to do
away wit- t-e oat-s o2 t-e 1arties on eit-er side9-e w-o obtains lea4e
to brin. an a,tion s-o0ld write* down t-e ,-ar.es* b0t s-o0ld not
add an oat-) and t-e de2endant in li6e manner s-o0ld .i4e -is denial
to t-e ma.istrates in writin.* and not swear) 2or it is a dread20l
t-in. to 6now* w-en many laws0its are .oin. on in a state t-at
almost -al2 t-e 1eo1le w-o meet one anot-er ;0ite 0n,on,ernedly at t-e
10bli, meals and in ot-er ,om1anies and relations o2 1ri4ate li2e
are 1erj0red/ Let t-e law* t-en* be as 2ollows(9A j0d.e w-o is abo0t
to .i4e j0d.ment s-all ta6e an oat-* and -e w-o is ,-oosin.
ma.istrates 2or t-e state s-all eit-er 4ote on oat- or wit- a 4otin.
tablet w-i,- -e brin.s 2rom a tem1le) so too t-e j0d.e o2 dan,es and
o2 all m0si,* and t-e s01erintendents and 0m1ires o2 .ymnasti, and
e;0estrian ,ontests* and any matters in w-i,-* as 2ar as men ,an
j0d.e* t-ere is not-in. to be .ained by a 2alse oat-) b0t all ,ases in
w-i,- a denial ,on2irmed by an oat- ,learly res0lts in a .reat
ad4anta.e to t-e ta6er o2 t-e oat-* s-all be de,ided wit-o0t t-e
oat- o2 t-e 1arties to t-e s0it* and t-e 1residin. j0d.es s-all not
1ermit eit-er o2 t-em/ to 0se an oat- 2or t-e sa6e o2 1ers0adin.*
nor to ,all down ,0rses on -imsel2 and -is ra,e* nor to 0se 0nseemly
s011li,ations or womanis- laments/ B0t t-ey s-all e4er be tea,-in. and
learnin. w-at is j0st in a0s1i,io0s words) and -e w-o does ot-erwise
s-all be s011osed to s1ea6 beside t-e 1oint* and t-e j0d.es s-all
a.ain brin. -im ba,6 to t-e ;0estion at iss0e/ On t-e ot-er -and*
stran.ers in t-eir dealin.s wit- stran.ers s-all as at 1resent -a4e
1ower to .i4e and re,ei4e oat-s* 2or t-ey will not o2ten .row old in
t-e ,ity or lea4e a 2ry o2 yo0n. ones li6e t-emsel4es to be t-e sons
and -eirs o2 t-e land/
As to t-e initiation o2 1ri4ate s0its* let t-e manner o2 de,idin.
,a0ses between all ,iti<ens be t-e same as in ,ases in w-i,- any
2reeman is disobedient to t-e state in minor matters* o2 w-i,- t-e
1enalty is not stri1es* im1risonment* or deat-/ B0t as re.ards
attendan,e at ,-or0ses or 1ro,essions or ot-er s-ows* and as re.ards
10bli, ser4i,es* w-et-er t-e ,elebration o2 sa,ri2i,e in 1ea,e* or t-e
1ayment o2 ,ontrib0tions in war9in all t-ese ,ases* 2irst ,omes t-e
ne,essity o2 1ro4idin. remedy 2or t-e loss) and by t-ose w-o will
not obey* t-ere s-all be se,0rity .i4en to t-e o22i,ers w-om t-e
,ity and t-e law em1ower to e:a,t t-e s0m d0e) and i2 t-ey 2or2eit
t-eir se,0rity* let t-e .oods w-i,- t-ey -a4e 1led.ed be* and t-e
money .i4en to t-e ,ity) b0t i2 t-ey o0.-t to 1ay a lar.er s0m* t-e
se4eral ma.istrates s-all im1ose 01on t-e disobedient a s0itable
1enalty* and brin. t-em be2ore t-e ,o0rt* 0ntil t-ey are willin. to do
w-at t-ey are ordered/
!ow a state w-i,- ma6es money 2rom t-e ,0lti4ation o2 t-e soil only*
and -as no 2orei.n trade* m0st ,onsider w-at it will do abo0t t-e
emi.ration o2 its own 1eo1le to ot-er ,o0ntries* and t-e re,e1tion
o2 stran.ers 2rom elsew-ere/ Abo0t t-ese matters t-e le.islator -as to
,onsider* and -e will be.in by tryin. to 1ers0ade men as 2ar as -e
,an/ #-e inter,o0rse o2 ,ities wit- one anot-er is a1t to ,reate a
,on20sion o2 manners) stran.ers* are always s0..estin. no4elties to
stran.ers/ W-en states are well .o4erned by .ood laws t-e mi:t0re
,a0ses t-e .reatest 1ossible inj0ry) b0t seein. t-at most ,ities are
t-e re4erse o2 well9ordered* t-e ,on20sion w-i,- arises in t-em 2rom
t-e re,e1tion o2 stran.ers* and 2rom t-e ,iti<ens t-emsel4es r0s-in.
o22 into ot-er ,ities* w-en any one eit-er yo0n. or old desires to
tra4el anyw-ere abroad at w-ate4er time* is o2 no ,onse;0en,e/ On
t-e ot-er -and* t-e re20sal o2 states to re,ei4e ot-ers* and 2or t-eir
own ,iti<ens ne4er to .o to ot-er 1la,es* is an 0tter im1ossibility*
and to t-e rest o2 t-e world is li6ely to a11ear r0t-less and
0n,i4ili<ed) it is a 1ra,tise ado1ted by 1eo1le w-o 0se -ars- words*
s0,- as :enelasia or banis-ment o2 stran.ers* and w-o -a4e -ars- and
morose ways* as men t-in6/ And to be t-o0.-t or not to be t-o0.-t well
o2 by t-e rest o2 t-e world is no li.-t matter) 2or t-e many are not
so 2ar wron. in t-eir j0d.ment o2 w-o are bad and w-o are .ood* as
t-ey are remo4ed 2rom t-e nat0re o2 4irt0e in t-emsel4es/ E4en bad men
-a4e a di4ine instin,t w-i,- .0esses ri.-tly* and 4ery many w-o are
0tterly de1ra4ed 2orm ,orre,t notions and j0d.ments o2 t-e di22eren,es
between t-e .ood and bad/ And t-e .enerality o2 ,ities are ;0ite ri.-t
in e:-ortin. 0s to 4al0e a .ood re10tation in t-e world* 2or t-ere
is no tr0t- .reater and more im1ortant t-an t-is9t-at -e w-o is really
.ood >I am s1ea6in. o2 t-e man w-o wo0ld be 1er2e,t? see6s 2or
re10tation wit-* b0t not wit-o0t* t-e reality o2 .oodness/ And o0r
Cretan ,olony o0.-t also to a,;0ire t-e 2airest and noblest re10tation
2or 4irt0e 2rom ot-er men) and t-ere is e4ery reason to e:1e,t t-at*
i2 t-e reality answers to t-e idea* s-e will be2ore o2 t-e 2ew
well9ordered ,ities w-i,- t-e s0n and t-e ot-er &ods be-old/
W-ere2ore* in t-e matter o2 jo0rneys to ot-er ,o0ntries and t-e
re,e1tion o2 stran.ers* we ena,t as 2ollows(9In t-e 2irst 1la,e* let
no one be allowed to .o anyw-ere at all into a 2orei.n ,o0ntry w-o
is less t-an 2orty years o2 a.e) and no one s-all .o in a 1ri4ate
,a1a,ity* b0t only in some 10bli, one* as a -erald* or on an
embassy) or on a sa,red mission/ &oin. abroad on an e:1edition or in
war* not to be in,l0ded amon. tra4els o2 t-e ,lass a0t-ori<ed by t-e
state/ #o A1ollo at %el1-i and to 5e0s at Olym1ia and to !emea and
to t-e Ist-m0s*9,iti<ens s-o0ld be sent to ta6e 1art in t-e sa,ri2i,es
and .ames t-ere dedi,ated to t-e &ods) and t-ey s-o0ld send as many as
1ossible* and t-e best and 2airest t-at ,an be 2o0nd* and t-ey will
ma6e t-e ,ity renowned at -oly meetin.s in time o2 1ea,e* 1ro,0rin.
a .lory w-i,- s-all be t-e ,on4erse o2 t-at w-i,- is .ained in war)
and w-en t-ey ,ome -ome t-ey s-all tea,- t-e yo0n. t-at t-e
instit0tions o2 ot-er states are in2erior to t-eir own/ And t-ey s-all
send s1e,tators o2 anot-er sort* i2 t-ey -a4e t-e ,onsent o2 t-e
.0ardians* bein. s0,- ,iti<ens as desire to loo6 a little more at
leis0re at t-e doin.s o2 ot-er men) and t-ese no law s-all -inder/ "or
a ,ity w-i,- -as no e:1erien,e o2 .ood and bad men or inter,o0rse wit-
t-em* ,an ne4er be t-oro0.-ly* and 1er2e,tly ,i4ili<ed* nor* a.ain*
,an t-e ,iti<ens o2 a ,ity 1ro1erly obser4e t-e laws by -abit only*
and wit-o0t an intelli.ent 0nderstandin. o2 t-em/ And t-ere always are
in t-e world a 2ew ins1ired men w-ose a,;0aintan,e is beyond 1ri,e*
and w-o s1rin. 01 ;0ite as m0,- in ill9ordered as in well9ordered
,ities/ #-ese are t-ey w-om t-e ,iti<ens o2 a well ordered ,ity s-o0ld
be e4er see6in. o0t* .oin. 2ort- o4er sea and o4er land to 2ind -im
w-o is in,orr01tible9t-at -e may establis- more 2irmly instit0tions in
-is own state w-i,- are .ood already) and amend w-at is de2i,ient) 2or
wit-o0t t-is e:amination and en;0iry a ,ity will ne4er ,ontin0e
1er2e,t any more t-an i2 t-e e:amination is ill9,ond0,ted/
Cleinias/ $ow ,an we -a4e an e:amination and also a .ood one3
At-enian Stran.er/ In t-is way( In t-e 2irst 1la,e* o0r s1e,tator
s-all be o2 not less t-an 2i2ty years o2 a.e) -e m0st be a man o2
re10tation* es1e,ially in war* i2 -e is to e:-ibit to ot-er ,ities a
model o2 t-e .0ardians o2 t-e law* b0t w-en -e is more t-an si:ty
years o2 a.e -e s-all no lon.er ,ontin0e in -is o22i,e o2 s1e,tator*
And w-en -e -as ,arried on -is ins1e,tion d0rin. as many o0t o2 t-e
ten years o2 -is o22i,e as -e 1leases* on -is ret0rn -ome let -im .o
to t-e assembly o2 t-ose w-o re4iew t-e laws/ #-is s-all be a mi:ed
body o2 yo0n. and old men* w-o s-all be re;0ired to meet daily between
t-e -o0r o2 dawn and t-e risin. o2 t-e s0n/ #-ey s-all ,onsist* in t-e
2irst 1la,e* o2 t-e 1riests w-o -a4e obtained t-e rewards o2 4irt0e)
and in t-e se,ond 1la,e* o2 .0ardians o2 t-e law* t-e ten eldest bein.
,-osen) t-e .eneral s01erintendent o2 ed0,ation s-all also be
member* as well t-e last a11ointed as t-ose w-o -a4e been released
2rom t-e o22i,e) and ea,- o2 t-em s-all ta6e wit- -im as -is ,om1anion
yo0n. man* w-omsoe4er -e ,-ooses* between t-e a.es o2 t-irty and
2orty/ #-ese s-all be always -oldin. ,on4ersation and dis,o0rse
abo0t t-e laws o2 t-eir own ,ity or abo0t any s1e,ially .ood ones
w-i,- t-ey may -ear to be e:istin. elsew-ere) also abo0t 6inds o2
6nowled.e w-i,- may a11ear to be o2 0se and will t-row li.-t 01on
t-e e:amination* or o2 w-i,- t-e want will ma6e t-e s0bje,t o2 laws
dar6 and 0n,ertain to t-em/ Any 6nowled.e o2 t-is sort w-i,- t-e
elders a11ro4e* t-e yo0n.er men s-all learn wit- all dili.en,e) and i2
any one o2 t-ose w-o -a4e been in4ited a11ear to be 0nwort-y* t-e
w-ole assembly s-all blame -im w-o in4ited -im/ #-e rest o2 t-e ,ity
s-all wat,- o4er t-ose amon. t-e yo0n. men w-o distin.0is- t-emsel4es*
-a4in. an eye 01on t-em* and es1e,ially -ono0rin. t-em i2 t-ey
s0,,eed* b0t dis-ono0rin. t-em abo4e t-e rest i2 t-ey t0rn o0t to be
in2erior/ #-is is t-e assembly to w-i,- -e w-o -as 4isited t-e
instit0tions o2 ot-er men* on -is ret0rn -ome s-all strai.-tway .o*
and i2 -e -a4e dis,o4ered any one w-o -as anyt-in. to say abo0t t-e
ena,tment o2 laws or ed0,ation or n0rt0re* or i2 -e -a4e -imsel2
made any obser4ations* let -im ,omm0ni,ate -is dis,o4eries to t-e
w-ole assembly/ And i2 -e be seen to -a4e ,ome -ome neit-er better nor
worse* let -im be 1raised at any rate 2or -is ent-0siasm) and i2 -e be
m0,- better* let -im be 1raised so m0,- t-e more) and not only w-ile
-e li4es b0t a2ter -is deat- let t-e assembly -ono0r -im wit-
2ittin. -ono0rs/ B0t i2 on -is ret0rn -ome -e a11ear to -a4e been
,orr01ted* 1retendin. to be wise w-en -e is not* let -im -old no
,omm0ni,ation wit- any one* w-et-er yo0n. or old) and i2 -e will
-ear6en to t-e r0lers* t-en -e s-all be 1ermitted to li4e as a 1ri4ate
indi4id0al) b0t i2 -e will not* let -im die* i2 -e be ,on4i,ted in a
,o0rt o2 law o2 inter2erin. abo0t ed0,ation and t-e laws* And i2 -e
deser4e to be indi,ted* and none o2 t-e ma.istrates indi,t -im* let
t-at be ,o0nted as a dis.ra,e to t-em w-en t-e rewards o2 4irt0e are
de,ided/
Let s0,- be t-e ,-ara,ter o2 t-e 1erson w-o .oes abroad* and let -im
.o abroad 0nder t-ese ,onditions/ In t-e ne:t 1la,e* t-e stran.er
w-o ,omes 2rom abroad s-o0ld be re,ei4ed in a 2riendly s1irit/ !ow
t-ere are 2o0r 6inds o2 stran.ers* o2 w-om we m0st ma6e some
mention9t-e 2irst is -e w-o ,omes and stays t-ro0.-o0t t-e s0mmer)
t-is ,lass are li6e birds o2 1assa.e* ta6in. win. in 10rs0it o2
,ommer,e* and 2lyin. o4er t-e sea to ot-er ,ities* w-ile t-e season
lasts) -e s-all be re,ei4ed in mar6et91la,es and -arbo0rs and 10bli,
b0ildin.s* near t-e ,ity b0t o0tside* by t-ose ma.istrates w-o are
a11ointed to s01erintend t-ese matters) and t-ey s-all ta6e ,are
t-at a stran.er* w-oe4er -e be* d0ly re,ei4es j0sti,e) b0t -e s-all
not be allowed to ma6e any inno4ation/ #-ey s-all -old t-e inter,o0rse
wit- -im w-i,- is ne,essary* and t-is s-all be as little as
1ossible/ #-e se,ond 6ind is j0st a s1e,tator w-o ,omes to see wit-
-is eyes and -ear wit- -is ears t-e 2esti4als o2 t-e +0ses) s0,- o0.-t
to -a4e entertainment 1ro4ided t-em at t-e tem1les by -os1itable
1ersons* and t-e 1riests and ministers o2 t-e tem1les s-o0ld see and
attend to t-em/ B0t t-ey s-o0ld not remain more t-an a reasonable
time) let t-em see and -ear t-at 2or t-e sa6e o2 w-i,- t-ey ,ame*
and t-en .o away* neit-er -a4in. s022ered nor done any -arm/ #-e
1riests s-all be t-eir j0d.es* i2 any o2 t-em re,ei4e or do any
wron. 01 to t-e s0m o2 2i2ty dra,-mae* b0t i2 any .reater ,-ar.e be
bro0.-t* in s0,- ,ases t-e s0it s-all ,ome be2ore t-e wardens o2 t-e
a.ora/ #-e t-ird 6ind o2 stran.er is -e w-o ,omes on some 10bli,
b0siness 2rom anot-er land* and is to be re,ei4ed wit- 10bli, -ono0rs/
$e is to be re,ei4ed only by t-e .enerals and ,ommanders o2 -orse
and 2oot* and t-e -ost by w-om -e is entertained* in ,onj0n,tion
wit- t-e Prytanes* s-all -a4e t-e sole ,-ar.e o2 w-at ,on,erns -im/
#-ere is a 2o0rt- dass o2 1ersons answerin. to o0r s1e,tators* w-o
,ome 2rom anot-er land to loo6 at o0rs/ In t-e 2irst 1la,e* s0,-
4isits will be rare* and t-e 4isitor s-o0ld be at least 2i2ty years o2
a.e) -e may 1ossibly be wantin. to see somet-in. t-at is ri,- and rare
in ot-er states* or -imsel2 to s-ow somet-in. in li6e manner to
anot-er ,ity/ Let s0,- an one* t-en* .o 0nbidden to t-e doors o2 t-e
wise and ri,-* bein. one o2 t-em -imsel2( let -im .o* 2or e:am1le*
to t-e -o0se o2 t-e s01erintendent o2 ed0,ation* ,on2ident t-at -e
is a 2ittin. .0est o2 s0,- a -ost* or let -im .o to t-e -o0se o2
some o2 t-ose w-o -a4e .ained t-e 1ri<e o2 4irt0e and -old dis,o0rse
wit- t-em* bot- learnin. 2rom t-em* and also tea,-in. t-em) and w-en
-e -as seen and -eard all* -e s-all de1art* as a 2riend ta6in. lea4e
o2 2riends* and be -ono0red by t-em wit- .i2ts and s0itable trib0tes
o2 res1e,t/ #-ese are t-e ,0stoms* a,,ordin. to w-i,- o0r ,ity
s-o0ld re,ei4e all stran.ers o2 eit-er se: w-o ,ome 2rom ot-er
,o0ntries* and s-o0ld send 2ort- -er own ,iti<ens* s-owin. res1e,t
to 5e0s* t-e &od o2 -os1itality* not 2orbiddin. stran.ers at meals and
sa,ri2i,es* as is t-e manner w-i,- 1re4ails amon. t-e ,-ildren o2
t-e !ile* nor dri4in. t-em away by sa4a.e 1ro,lamations/
W-en a man be,omes s0rety* let -im .i4e t-e se,0rity in a distin,t
2orm* a,6nowled.in. t-e w-ole transa,tion in a written do,0ment* and
in t-e 1resen,e o2 not less t-an t-ree witnesses i2 t-e s0m be 0nder a
t-o0sand dra,-mae* and o2 not less t-an 2i4e witnesses i2 t-e s0m be
abo4e a t-o0sand dra,-mae/ #-e a.ent o2 a dis-onest or 0ntr0stwort-y
seller s-all -imsel2 be res1onsible) bot- t-e a.ent and t-e
1rin,i1al s-all be e;0ally liable/ I2 a 1erson wis-es to 2ind anyt-in.
in t-e -o0se o2 anot-er* -e s-all enter na6ed* or wearin. only a s-ort
t0ni, and wit-o0t a .irdle* -a4in. 2irst ta6en an oat- by t-e
,0stomary &ods t-at -e e:1e,ts to 2ind it t-ere) -e s-all t-en ma6e
-is sear,-* and t-e ot-er s-all t-row o1en -is -o0se and allow -im
to sear,- t-in.s bot- sealed and 0nsealed/ And i2 a 1erson will not
allow t-e sear,-er to ma6e -is sear,-* -e w-o is 1re4ented s-all .o to
law wit- -im* estimatin. t-e 4al0e o2 t-e .oods a2ter w-i,- -e is
sear,-in.* and i2 t-e ot-er be ,on4i,ted -e s-all 1ay twi,e t-e
4al0e o2 t-e arti,le/ I2 t-e master be absent 2rom -ome* t-e
dwellers in t-e -o0se s-all let -im sear,- t-e 0nsealed 1ro1erty*
and on t-e sealed 1ro1erty t-e sear,-er s-all set anot-er seal* and
s-all a11oint any one w-om -e li6es to .0ard t-em d0rin. 2i4e days)
and i2 t-e master o2 t-e -o0se be absent d0rin. a lon.er time* -e
s-all ta6e wit- -im t-e wardens o2 t-e ,ity* and so ma6e -is sear,-*
o1enin. t-e sealed 1ro1erty as well as t-e 0nsealed* and t-en*
to.et-er wit- t-e members o2 t-e 2amily and t-e wardens o2 t-e ,ity*
-e s-all seal t-em 01 a.ain as t-ey were be2ore/ #-ere s-all be a
limit o2 time in t-e ,ase o2 dis10ted t-in.s* and -e w-o -as -ad
1ossession o2 t-em d0rin. a ,ertain time s-all no lon.er be liable
to be dist0rbed/ As to -o0ses and lands t-ere ,an be no dis10te in
t-is state o2 o0rs) b0t i2 a man -as any ot-er 1ossessions w-i,- -e
-as 0sed and o1enly s-own in t-e ,ity and in t-e a.ora and in t-e
tem1les* and no one -as 10t in a ,laim to t-em* and some one says t-at
-e was loo6in. 2or t-em d0rin. t-is time* and t-e 1ossessor is
1ro4ed to -a4e made no ,on,ealment* i2 t-ey -a4e ,ontin0ed 2or a year*
t-e one -a4in. t-e .oods and t-e ot-er loo6in. 2or t-em* t-e ,laim
o2 t-e see6er s-all not be allowed a2ter t-e e:1iration o2 t-e year)
or i2 -e does not 0se or s-ow t-e lost 1ro1erty in t-e mar6et or in
t-e ,ity* b0t only in t-e ,o0ntry* and no one o22ers -imsel2 as t-e
owner d0rin. 2i4e years* at t-e e:1iration o2 t-e 2i4e years t-e ,laim
s-all be barred 2or e4er a2ter) or i2 -e 0ses t-em in t-e ,ity b0t
wit-in t-e -o0se* t-en t-e a11ointed time o2 ,laimin. t-e .oods
s-all be t-ree years* or ten years i2 -e -as t-em in t-e ,o0ntry in
1ri4ate/ And i2 -e -as t-em in anot-er land* t-ere s-all be no limit
o2 time or 1res,ri1tion* b0t w-ene4er t-e owner 2inds t-em -e may
,laim t-em/
I2 any one 1re4ents anot-er by 2or,e 2rom bein. 1resent at a
trial* w-et-er a 1rin,i1al 1arty or -is witnesses) i2 t-e 1erson
1re4ented be a sla4e* w-et-er -is own or belon.in. to anot-er* t-e
s0it s-all be in,om1lete and in4alid) b0t i2 -e w-o is 1re4ented be
a 2reeman* besides t-e s0it bein. in,om1lete* t-e ot-er w-o -as
1re4ented -im s-all be im1risoned 2or a year* and s-all be
1rose,0ted 2or 6idna11in. by any one w-o 1leases/ And i2 any one
-inders by 2or,e a ri4al ,om1etitor in .ymnasti, or m0si,* or any
ot-er sort o2 ,ontest* 2rom bein. 1resent at t-e ,ontest* let -im
w-o -as a mind in2orm t-e 1residin. j0d.es* and t-ey s-all liberate
-im w-o is desiro0s o2 ,om1etin.) and i2 t-ey are not able* and -e w-o
-inders t-e ot-er 2rom ,om1etin. wins t-e 1ri<e* t-en t-ey s-all
.i4e t-e 1ri<e o2 4i,tory to -im w-o is 1re4ented* and ins,ribe -im as
t-e ,on;0eror in any tem1les w-i,- -e 1leases) and -e w-o -inders
t-e ot-er s-all not be 1ermitted to ma6e any o22erin. or ins,ri1tion
-a4in. re2eren,e to t-at ,ontest* and in any ,ase -e s-all be liable
2or dama.es* w-et-er -e be de2eated or w-et-er -e ,on;0er/
I2 any one 6nowin.ly re,ei4es anyt-in. w-i,- -as been stolen* -e
s-all 0nder.o t-e same 10nis-ment as t-e t-ie2* and i2 a man
re,ei4es an e:ile -e s-all be 10nis-ed wit- deat-/ E4ery man s-o0ld
re.ard t-e 2riend and enemy o2 t-e state as -is own 2riend and
enemy) and i2 any one ma6es 1ea,e or war wit- anot-er on -is own
a,,o0nt* and wit-o0t t-e a0t-ority o2 t-e state* -e* li6e t-e re,ei4er
o2 t-e e:ile* s-all 0nder.o t-e 1enalty o2 deat-/ And i2 any
2ra,tion o2 t-e City de,lare war or 1ea,e a.ainst any* t-e .enerals
s-all indi,t t-e a0t-ors o2 t-is 1ro,eedin.* and i2 t-ey are ,on4i,ted
deat- s-all be t-e 1enalty/ #-ose w-o ser4e t-eir ,o0ntry o0.-t to
ser4e wit-o0t re,ei4in. .i2ts* and t-ere o0.-t to be no e:,0sin. or
a11ro4in. t-e sayin.* A+en s-o0ld re,ei4e .i2ts as t-e reward o2 .ood*
b0t not o2 e4il deedsA) 2or to 6now w-i,- we are doin.* and to stand
2ast by o0r 6nowled.e* is no easy matter/ #-e sa2est ,o0rse is to obey
t-e law w-i,- says* A%o no ser4i,e 2or a bribe*A and let -im w-o
disobeys* i2 -e be ,on4i,ted* sim1ly die/ Wit- a 4iew to ta:ation* 2or
4ario0s reasons* e4ery man o0.-t to -a4e -ad -is 1ro1erty 4al0ed(
and t-e tribesmen s-o0ld li6ewise brin. a re.ister o2 t-e yearly
1rod0,e to t-e wardens o2 t-e ,o0ntry* t-at in t-is way t-ere may be
two 4al0ations) and t-e 10bli, o22i,ers may 0se ann0ary w-i,-e4er on
,onsideration t-ey deem t-e best* w-et-er t-ey 1re2er to ta6e a
,ertain 1ortion o2 t-e w-ole 4al0e* or o2 t-e ann0al re4en0e* a2ter
s0btra,tin. w-at is 1aid to t-e ,ommon tables/
#o0,-in. o22erin.s to t-e &ods* a moderate man s-o0ld obser4e
moderation in w-at -e o22ers/ !ow t-e land and t-e -eart- o2 t-e -o0se
o2 all men is sa,red to all &ods) w-ere2ore let no man dedi,ate t-em a
se,ond time to t-e &ods/ &old and sil4er* w-et-er 1ossessed by 1ri4ate
1ersons or in tem1les* are in ot-er ,ities 1ro4o,ati4e o2 en4y* and
i4ory* t-e 1rod0,t o2 a dead body* is not a 1ro1er o22erin.) brass and
iron* a.ain* are instr0ments o2 war) b0t o2 wood let a man brin.
w-at o22erin.s -e li6es* 1ro4ided it be a sin.le blo,6* and in li6e
manner o2 stone* to t-e 10bli, tem1les) o2 wo4en wor6 let -im not
o22er more t-an one woman ,an e:e,0te in a mont-/ W-ite is a ,olo0r
s0itable to t-e &ods* es1e,ially in wo4en wor6s* b0t dyes s-o0ld
only be 0sed 2or t-e adornments o2 war/ #-e most di4ine o2 .i2ts are
birds and ima.es* and t-ey s-o0ld be s0,- as one 1ainter ,an e:e,0te
in a sin.le day/ And let all ot-er o22erin.s 2ollow a similar r0le/
!ow t-at t-e w-ole ,ity -as been di4ided into 1arts o2 w-i,- t-e
nat0re and n0mber -a4e been des,ribed* and laws -a4e been .i4en
abo0t all t-e most im1ortant ,ontra,ts as 2ar as t-is was 1ossible*
t-e ne:t t-in. will be to -a4e j0sti,e done/ #-e 2irst o2 t-e ,o0rts
s-all ,onsist o2 ele,ted j0d.es* w-o s-all be ,-osen by t-e
1lainti22 and t-e de2endant in ,ommon( t-ese s-all be ,alled
arbiters rat-er t-an j0d.es/ And in t-e se,ond ,o0rt t-ere s-all be
j0d.es o2 t-e 4illa.es and tribes ,orres1ondin. to t-e twel4e2old
di4ision o2 t-e land* and be2ore t-ese t-e liti.ants s-all .o to
,ontend 2or .reater dama.es* i2 t-e s0it be not de,ided be2ore t-e
2irst j0d.es) t-e de2endant* i2 -e be de2eated t-e se,ond time*
s-all 1ay a 2i2t- more t-an t-e dama.es mentioned in t-e indi,tment)
and i2 -e 2ind 2a0lt wit- -is j0d.es and wo0ld try a t-ird time* let
-im ,arry t-e s0it be2ore t-e sele,t j0d.es* and i2 -e be a.ain
de2eated* let -im 1ay t-e w-ole o2 t-e dama.es and -al2 as m0,- a.ain/
And t-e 1lainti22* i2 w-en de2eated be2ore t-e 2irst j0d.es -e 1ersist
in .oin. on to t-e se,ond* s-all i2 -e wins re,ei4e in addition to t-e
dama.es a 2i2t- 1art more* and i2 de2eated -e s-all 1ay a li6e s0m)
b0t i2 -e is not satis2ied wit- t-e 1re4io0s de,ision* and will insist
on 1ro,eedin. to a t-ird ,o0rt* t-en i2 -e win -e s-all re,ei4e 2rom
t-e de2endant t-e amo0nt o2 t-e dama.es and* as I said be2ore* -al2 as
m0,- a.ain* and t-e 1lainti22* i2 -e lose* s-all 1ay -al2 o2 t-e
dama.es ,laimed* !ow t-e assi.nment by lot o2 j0d.es to ,o0rts and t-e
,om1letion o2 t-e n0mber o2 t-em* and t-e a11ointment o2 ser4ants to
t-e di22erent ma.istrates* and t-e times at w-i,- t-e se4eral ,a0ses
s-o0ld be -eard* and t-e 4otin.s and delays* and all t-e t-in.s t-at
ne,essarily ,on,ern s0its* and t-e order o2 ,a0ses* and t-e time in
w-i,- answers -a4e to be 10t in and 1arties are to a11ear9o2 t-ese and
ot-er t-in.s a6in to t-ese we -a4e indeed already s1o6en* b0t t-ere is
no -arm in re1eatin. w-at is ri.-t twi,e or t-ri,e(9All lesser and
easier matters w-i,- t-e elder le.islator -as omitted may be
s011lied by t-e yo0n.er one/ Pri4ate ,o0rts will be s022i,iently
re.0lated in t-is way* and t-e 10bli, and state ,o0rts* and t-ose
w-i,- t-e ma.istrates m0st 0se in t-e administration o2 t-eir
se4eral o22i,es* e:ist in many ot-er states/ +any 4ery res1e,table
instit0tions o2 t-is sort -a4e been 2ramed by .ood men* and 2rom
t-em t-e .0ardians o2 t-e law may by re2le,tion deri4e w-at is
ne,essary* 2or t-e order o2 o0r new state* ,onsiderin. and
,orre,tin. t-em* and brin.in. t-em to t-e test o2 e:1erien,e* 0ntil
e4ery detail a11ears to be satis2a,torily determined) and t-en 10ttin.
t-e 2inal seal 01on t-em* and ma6in. t-em irre4ersible* t-ey s-all 0se
t-em 2or e4er a2terwards/ As to w-at relates to t-e silen,e o2
j0d.es and t-e abstinen,e 2rom words o2 e4il omen and t-e re4erse* and
t-e di22erent notions o2 t-e j0st and .ood and -ono0rable w-i,-
e:ist in o0r( own as ,om1ared wit- ot-er states* t-ey -a4e been 1artly
mentioned already* and anot-er 1art o2 t-em will be mentioned
-erea2ter as we draw near t-e end/ #o all t-ese matters -e w-o wo0ld
be an e;0al j0d.e* s-all j0stly loo6* and -e s-all 1ossess writin.s
abo0t t-em t-at -e may learn t-em/ "or o2 all 6inds o2 6nowled.e t-e
6nowled.e o2 .ood laws -as t-e .reatest 1ower o2 im1ro4in. t-e
learner) ot-erwise t-ere wo0ld be no meanin. t-e di4ine and
admirable law 1ossessin. a name a6in to mind >no0s* nomos?/ And o2 all
ot-er words* s0,- as t-e 1raises and ,ens0res o2 indi4id0als w-i,-
o,,0r in 1oetry and also in 1rose* w-et-er written down or 0ttered
in daily ,on4ersation* w-et-er men dis10te abo0t t-em in t-e s1irit o2
,ontention or wea6ly assent to t-em* as is o2ten t-e ,ase9o2 all t-ese
t-e one s0re test is t-e writin.s o2 t-e le.islator* w-i,- t-e
ri.-teo0s j0d.e o0.-t to -a4e in -is mind as t-e antidote o2 all ot-er
words* and t-0s ma6e -imsel2 and t-e ,ity stand 01ri.-t* 1ro,0rin. 2or
t-e .ood t-e ,ontin0an,e and in,rease o2 j0sti,e* and 2or t-e bad*
on t-e ot-er -and* a ,on4ersion 2rom i.noran,e and intem1eran,e* and
in .eneral 2rom all 0nri.-teo0sness* as 2ar as t-eir e4il minds ,an be
-ealed* b0t to t-ose w-ose web o2 li2e is in reality 2inis-ed*
.i4in. deat-* w-i,- is t-e only remedy 2or so0ls in t-eir ,ondition*
as I may say tr0ly a.ain and a.ain/ And s0,- j0d.es and ,-ie2s o2
j0d.es will be wort-y o2 re,ei4in. 1raise 2rom t-e w-ole ,ity/
W-en t-e s0its o2 t-e year are ,om1leted t-e 2ollowin. laws s-all
re.0late t-eir e:e,0tion(9In t-e 2irst 1la,e* t-e j0d.e s-all assi.n
to t-e 1arty w-o wins t-e s0it t-e w-ole 1ro1erty o2 -im w-o loses*
wit- t-e e:,e1tion o2 mere ne,essaries* and t-e assi.nment s-all be
made t-ro0.- t-e -erald immediately a2ter ea,- de,ision in t-e -earin.
o2 t-e j0d.es) and w-en t-e mont- arri4es 2ollowin. t-e mont- in w-i,-
t-e ,o0rts are sittin. >0nless t-e .ainer o2 t-e s0it -as been
1re4io0sly satis2ied?* t-e ,o0rt s-all 2ollow 01 t-e ,ase* and -and
o4er to t-e winner t-e .oods o2 t-e loser) b0t i2 t-ey 2ind t-at -e
-as not t-e means o2 1ayin.* and t-e s0m de2i,ient is not less t-an
a dra,-ma* t-e insol4ent 1erson s-all not -a4e any ri.-t o2 .oin. to
law wit- any ot-er man 0ntil -e -a4e satis2ied t-e debt o2 t-e winnin.
1arty) b0t ot-er 1ersons s-all still -a4e t-e ri.-t o2 brin.in.
s0its a.ainst -im/ And i2 any one a2ter -e is ,ondemned re20ses to
a,6nowled.e t-e a0t-ority w-i,- ,ondemned -im* let t-e ma.istrates w-o
are t-0s de1ri4ed o2 t-eir a0t-ority brin. -im be2ore t-e ,o0rt o2 t-e
.0ardians o2 t-e law* and i2 -e be ,ast* let -im be 10nis-ed wit-
deat-* as a s0b4erter o2 t-e w-ole state and o2 t-e laws/
#-0s a man is born and bro0.-t 01* and a2ter t-is manner -e be.ets
and brin.s 01 -is own ,-ildren* and -as -is s-are o2 dealin.s wit-
ot-er men* and s022ers i2 -e -as done wron. to any one* and re,ei4es
satis2a,tion i2 -e -as been wron.ed* and so at len.t- in d0e time -e
.rows old 0nder t-e 1rote,tion o2 t-e laws* and -is end ,omes in t-e
order o2 nat0re/ Con,ernin. t-e dead o2 eit-er se:* t-e reli.io0s
,eremonies w-i,- may 2ittin.ly be 1er2ormed* w-et-er a11ertainin. to
t-e &ods o2 t-e 0nderworld or o2 t-is* s-all be de,ided by t-e
inter1reters wit- absol0te a0t-ority/ #-eir se10l,-res are not to be
in 1la,es w-i,- are 2it 2or ,0lti4ation* and t-ere s-all be no
mon0ments in s0,- s1ots* eit-er lar.e or small* b0t t-ey s-all
o,,01y t-at 1art o2 t-e ,o0ntry w-i,- is nat0rally ada1ted 2or
re,ei4in. and ,on,ealin. t-e bodies o2 t-e dead wit- as little -0rt as
1ossible to t-e li4in./ !o man* li4in. or dead* s-all de1ri4e t-e
li4in. o2 t-e s0stenan,e w-i,- t-e eart-* t-eir 2oster91arent* is
nat0rally in,lined to 1ro4ide 2or t-em/ And let not t-e mo0nd be 1iled
-i.-er t-an wo0ld be t-e wor6 o2 2i4e men ,om1leted in 2i4e days)
nor s-all t-e stone w-i,- is 1la,ed o4er t-e s1ot be lar.er t-an wo0ld
be s022i,ient to re,ei4e t-e 1raises o2 t-e dead in,l0ded in 2o0r
-eroi, lines/ !or s-all t-e layin. o0t o2 t-e dead in t-e -o0se
,ontin0e 2or a lon.er time t-an is s022i,ient to distin.0is- between
-im w-o is in a tran,e only and -im w-o is really dead* and s1ea6in.
.enerally* t-e t-ird day a2ter deat- will be a 2air time 2or
,arryin. o0t t-e body to t-e se10l,-re/ !ow we m0st belie4e t-e
le.islator w-en -e tells 0s t-at t-e so0l is in all res1e,ts
s01erior to t-e body* and t-at e4en in li2e w-at ma6es ea,- one 0s
to be w-at we are is only t-e so0l) and t-at t-e body 2ollows 0s abo0t
in t-e li6eness o2 ea,- o2 0s* and t-ere2ore* w-en we are dead* t-e
bodies o2 t-e dead are ;0ite ri.-tly said to be o0r s-ades or
ima.es) 2or t-e tr0e and immortal bein. o2 ea,- one o2 0s w-i,- is
,alled t-e so0l .oes on -er way to ot-er &ods* be2ore t-em to .i4e
an a,,o0nt9w-i,- is an ins1irin. -o1e to t-e .ood* b0t 4ery terrible
to t-e bad* as t-e laws o2 o0r 2at-ers tell 0s) and t-ey also say
t-at not m0,- ,an be done in t-e way o2 -el1in. a man a2ter -e is
dead/ B0t t-e li4in.9-e s-o0ld be -el1ed by all -is 6indred* t-at
w-ile in li2e -e may be t-e -oliest and j0stest o2 men* and a2ter
deat- may -a4e no .reat sins to be 10nis-ed in t-e world below/ I2
t-is be tr0e* a man o0.-t not to waste -is s0bstan,e 0nder t-e idea
t-at all t-is li2eless mass o2 2les- w-i,- is in 1ro,ess o2 b0rial
is ,onne,ted wit- -im) -e s-o0ld ,onsider t-at t-e son* or brot-er* or
t-e belo4ed one* w-oe4er -e may be* w-om -e t-in6s -e is layin. in t-e
eart-* -as .one away to ,om1lete and 20l2il -is own destiny* and
t-at -is d0ty is ri.-tly to order t-e 1resent* and to s1end moderately
on t-e li2eless altar o2 t-e &ods below/ B0t t-e le.islator does not
intend moderation to be ta6e* in t-e sense o2 meanness/ Let t-e law*
t-en* be as 2ollows(9#-e e:1endit0re on t-e entire 20neral o2 -im
w-o is o2 t-e -i.-est ,lass s-all not e:,eed 2i4e minae) and 2or -im
w-o is o2 t-e se,ond ,lass* t-ree minae* and 2or -im w-o is o2 t-e
t-ird ,lass* two minae* and 2or -im* w-o is o2 t-e 2o0rt- ,lass* one
mina* will be a 2air limit o2 e:1ense/ #-e .0ardians o2 t-e law
o0.-t to ta6e es1e,ial ,are o2 t-e di22erent a.es o2 li2e* w-et-er
,-ild-ood* or man-ood* or any ot-er a.e/ And at t-e end o2 all* let
t-ere be some one .0ardian o2 t-e law 1residin.* w-o s-all be ,-osen
by t-e 2riends o2 t-e de,eased to s01erintend* and let it be .lory
to -im to mana.e wit- 2airness and moderation w-at relates to t-e
dead* and a dis,redit to -im i2 t-ey are not well mana.ed/ Let t-e
layin. o0t and ot-er ,eremonies be in a,,ordan,e wit- ,0stom* b0t to
t-e statesman w-o ado1ts ,0stom as -is law we m0st .i4e way in ,ertain
1arti,0lars/ It wo0ld be monstro0s 2or e:am1le t-at -e s-o0ld
,ommand any man to wee1 or abstain 2rom wee1in. o4er t-e dead) b0t
-e may 2orbid ,ries o2 lamentation* and not allow t-e 4oi,e o2 t-e
mo0rner to be -eard o0tside t-e -o0se) also* -e may 2orbid t-e
brin.in. o2 t-e dead body into t-e o1en streets* or t-e 1ro,essions o2
mo0rners in t-e streets* and may re;0ire t-at be2ore daybrea6 t-ey
s-o0ld be o0tside t-e ,ity/ Let t-ese* t-en* be o0r laws relatin. to
s0,- matters* and let -im w-o obeys be 2ree 2rom 1enalty) b0t -e w-o
disobeys e4en a sin.le .0ardian o2 t-e law s-all be 10nis-ed by t-em
all wit- a 2ittin. 1enalty/ Ot-er modes o2 b0rial* or a.ain t-e denial
o2 b0rial* w-i,- is to be re20sed in t-e ,ase o2 robbers o2 tem1les
and 1arri,ides and t-e li6e* -a4e been de4ised and are embodied in t-e
1re,edin. laws* so t-at now o0r wor6 o2 le.islation is 1retty nearly
at an end) b0t in all ,ases t-e end does not ,onsist in doin.
somet-in. or a,;0irin. somet-in. or establis-in. somet-in.9t-e end
will be attained and 2inally a,,om1lis-ed* w-en we -a4e 1ro4ided 2or
t-e 1er2e,t and lastin. ,ontin0an,e o2 o0r instit0tions 0ntil t-en o0r
,reation is in,om1lete/
Cle/ #-at is 4ery .ood Stran.er) b0t I wis- yo0 wo0ld tell me more
,learly w-at yo0 mean/
At-/ O Cleinias* many t-in.s o2 old time were well said and s0n.)
and t-e sayin. abo0t t-e "ates was one o2 t-em/
Cle/ W-at is it3
At-/ #-e sayin. t-at La,-esis or t-e .i4er o2 t-e lots is t-e
2irst o2 t-em* and t-at Clot-o or t-e s1inster is t-e se,ond o2
t-em* and t-at Atro1os or t-e 0n,-an.in. one is t-e t-ird o2 t-em) and
t-at s-e is t-e 1reser4er o2 t-e t-in.s w-i,- we -a4e s1o6en* and
w-i,- -a4e been ,om1ared in a 2i.0re to t-in.s wo4en by 2ire* t-ey
bot- >i/e/* Atro1os and t-e 2ire? 1rod0,in. t-e ;0ality o2
0n,-an.eableness/ I am s1ea6in. o2 t-e t-in.s w-i,- in a state and
.o4ernment .i4e not only -ealt- and sal4ation to t-e body* b0t law* or
rat-er 1reser4ation o2 t-e law* in t-e so0l) and* i2 I am not
mista6en* t-is seems to be still wantin. in o0r laws( we -a4e still to
see -ow we ,an im1lant in t-em t-is irre4ersible nat0re/
Cle/ It will be no small matter i2 we ,an only dis,o4er -ow s0,- a
nat0re ,an be im1lanted in anyt-in./
At-/ B0t it ,ertainly ,an be) so m0,- I ,learly see/
Cle/ #-en let 0s not t-in6 o2 desistin. 0ntil we -a4e im1arted
t-is ;0ality to o0r laws) 2or it is ridi,0lo0s* a2ter a .reat deal
o2 labo0r -as been s1ent* to 1la,e a t-in. at last on an inse,0re
2o0ndation/
+e.ill0s/ I a11ro4e o2 yo0r s0..estion* and am ;0ite o2 t-e same
mind wit- yo0/
Cle/ 8ery .ood( And now w-at* a,,ordin. to yo0* is to be t-e
sal4ation o2 o0r .o4ernment and o2 o0r laws* and -ow is it to be
e22e,ted3
At-/ Were we not sayin. t-at t-ere m0st be in o0r ,ity a ,o0n,il
w-i,- was to be o2 t-is sort(9#-e ten oldest .0ardians o2 t-e law* and
all t-ose w-o -a4e obtained 1ri<es o2 4irt0e* were to meet in t-e same
assembly* and t-e ,o0n,il was also to in,l0de t-ose w-o -ad 4isited
2orei.n ,o0ntries in t-e -o1e o2 -earin. somet-in. t-at mi.-t be o2
0se in t-e 1reser4ation o2 t-e laws* and w-o* -a4in. ,ome sa2ely -ome*
and -a4in. been tested in t-ese same matters* -ad 1ro4ed t-emsel4es to
be wort-y to ta6e 1art in t-e assembly)9ea,- o2 t-e members was to
sele,t some yo0n. man o2 not less t-an t-irty years o2 a.e* -e -imsel2
j0d.in. in t-e* 2irst instan,e w-et-er t-e yo0n. man was wort-y by
nat0re and ed0,ation* and t-en s0..estin. -im to t-e ot-ers* and i2 -e
seemed to t-em also to be wort-y t-ey were to ado1t -im) b0t i2 not*
t-e de,ision at w-i,- t-ey arri4ed was to be 6e1t a se,ret 2rom t-e
,iti<ens at lar.e) and* more es1e,ially* 2rom t-e reje,ted
,andidate/ #-e meetin. o2 t-e ,o0n,il was to be -eld early in t-e
mornin.* w-en e4erybody was most at leis0re 2rom all ot-er b0siness*
w-et-er 10bli, or 1ri4ate9was not somet-in. o2 t-is sort said by 0s
be2ore3
Cle/ #r0e/
At-/ #-en* ret0rnin. to t-e ,o0n,il* I wo0ld say 20rt-er* t-at i2 we
let it down to be t-e an,-or o2 t-e state* o0r ,ity* -a4in. e4eryt-in.
w-i,- is s0itable to -er* will 1reser4e all t-at we wis- to 1reser4e/
Cle/ W-at do yo0 mean3
At-/ !ow is t-e time 2or me to s1ea6 t-e tr0t- in all earnestness/
Cle/ Well said* and I -o1e t-at yo0 will 20l2il yo0r intention/
At-/ Know* Cleinias* t-at e4eryt-in.* in all t-at it does* -as a
nat0ral sa4io0r* as o2 an animal t-e so0l and t-e -ead are t-e ,-ie2
sa4io0rs/
Cle/ On,e more* w-at do yo0 mean3
At-/ #-e well9bein. o2 t-ose two is ob4io0sly t-e 1reser4ation o2
e4ery li4in. t-in./
Cle/ $ow is t-at3
At-/ #-e so0l* besides ot-er t-in.s* ,ontains mind* and t-e -ead*
besides ot-er t-in.s* ,ontains si.-t and -earin.) and t-e mind*
min.lin. wit- t-e noblest o2 t-e senses* and be,omin. one wit- t-em*
may be tr0ly ,alled t-e sal4ation o2 all/
Cle/ 7es* @0ite so/
At-/ 7es* indeed) b0t wit- w-at is t-at intelle,t ,on,erned w-i,-*
min.lin. wit- t-e senses* is t-e sal4ation o2 s-i1s in storms as
well as in 2air weat-er3 In a s-i1* w-en t-e 1ilot and t-e sailors
0nite t-eir 1er,e1tions wit- t-e 1ilotin. mind* do t-ey not sa4e
bot- t-emsel4es and t-eir ,ra2t3
Cle/ 8ery tr0e/
At-/ We do not want many ill0strations abo0t s0,- matters(9W-at
aim wo0ld t-e .eneral o2 an army* or w-at aim wo0ld a 1-ysi,ian
1ro1ose to -imsel2* i2 -e were see6in. to attain sal4ation3
Cle/ 8ery .ood/
At-/ %oes not t-e .eneral aim at 4i,tory and s01eriority in war* and
do not t-e 1-ysi,ian and -is assistants aim at 1rod0,in. -ealt- in t-e
body3
Cle/ Certainly/
At-/ And a 1-ysi,ian w-o is i.norant abo0t t-e body* t-at is to say*
w-o 6nows not t-at w-i,- we j0st now ,alled -ealt-* or a .eneral w-o
6nows not 4i,tory* or any ot-ers w-o are i.norant o2 t-e 1arti,0lars
o2 t-e arts w-i,- we mentioned* ,annot be said to -a4e 0nderstandin.
abo0t any o2 t-ese matters/
Cle/ #-ey ,annot/
At-/ And w-at wo0ld yo0 say o2 t-e state3 I2 a 1erson 1ro4es to be
i.norant o2 t-e aim to w-i,- t-e statesman s-o0ld loo6* o0.-t -e* in
t-e 2irst 1la,e* to be ,alled a r0ler at all) 20rt-er* will -e e4er be
able to 1reser4e t-at o2 w-i,- -e does not e4en 6now t-e aim3
Cle/ Im1ossible/
At-/ And t-ere2ore* i2 o0r settlement o2 t-e ,o0ntry is to be
1er2e,t* we o0.-t to -a4e some instit0tion* w-i,-* as I was sayin.*
will tell w-at is t-e aim o2 t-e state* and will in2orm 0s -ow we
are to attain t-is* and w-at law or w-at man will ad4ise 0s to t-at
end/ Any state w-i,- -as no s0,- instit0tion is li6ely to be de4oid o2
mind and sense* and in all -er a,tions will 1ro,eed by mere ,-an,e/
Cle/ 8ery tr0e/
At-/ In w-i,-* t-en* o2 t-e 1arts or instit0tions o2 t-e state is
any s0,- .0ardian 1ower to be 2o0nd3 Can we say3
Cle/ I am not ;0ite ,ertain* Stran.er) b0t I -a4e a s0s1i,ion t-at
yo0 are re2errin. to t-e assembly w-i,- yo0 j0st now said was to
meet at ni.-t/
At-/ 7o0 0nderstand me 1er2e,tly* Cleinias) and we m0st ass0me* as
t-e ar.0ment ini1lies* t-at t-is ,o0n,il 1ossesses all 4irt0e) and t-e
be.innin. o2 4irt0e is not to ma6e mista6es by .0essin. many t-in.s*
b0t to loo6 steadily at one t-in.* and on t-is to 2i: all o0r aims/
Cle/ @0ite tr0e/
At-/ #-en now we s-all see w-y t-ere is not-in. wonder20l in
states .oin. astray9t-e reason is t-at t-eir le.islators -a4e s0,-
di22erent aims) nor is t-ere anyt-in. wonder20l in some layin. down as
t-eir r0le o2 j0sti,e* t-at ,ertain indi4id0als s-o0ld bear r0le in
t-e state* w-et-er t-ey be .ood or bad* and ot-ers t-at t-e ,iti<ens
s-o0ld be ri,-* not ,arin. w-et-er t-ey are t-e sla4es o2 ot-er men or
not/ #-e tenden,y o2 ot-ers* a.ain* is towards 2reedom) and some
le.islate wit- a 4iew to two t-in.s at on,e9t-ey want to be at t-e
same time 2ree and t-e lords o2 ot-er states) b0t t-e wisest men* as
t-ey deem t-emsel4es to be* loo6 to all t-ese and similar aims* and
t-ere is no one o2 t-em w-i,- t-ey e:,l0si4ely -ono0r* and to w-i,-
t-ey wo0ld -a4e all t-in.s loo6/
Cle/ #-en* Stran.er* o0r 2ormer assertion will -old* 2or we were
sayin. t-at laws .enerally s-o0ld loo6 to one t-in. only) and t-is* as
we admitted* was ri.-tly said to be 4irt0e/
At-/ 7es/
Cle/ And we said t-at 4irt0e was o2 2o0r 6inds3
At-/ @0ite tr0e/
Cle/ And t-at mind was t-e leader o2 t-e 2o0r* and t-at to -er t-e
t-ree ot-er 4irt0es and all ot-er t-in.s o0.-t to -a4e re.ard3
At-/ 7o0 2ollow me ,a1itally* Cleinias* and I wo0ld as6 yo0 to
2ollow me to t-e end* 2or we -a4e already said t-at t-e mind o2 t-e
1ilot* t-e mind o2 t-e 1-ysi,ian and o2 t-e .eneral loo6 to t-at one
t-in. to w-i,- t-ey o0.-t to loo6) and now we may t0rn to mind
1oliti,al* o2 w-i,-* as o2 a -0man ,reat0re* we will as6 a ;0estion(9O
wonder20l bein.* and to w-at are yo0 loo6in.3 #-e 1-ysi,ian is able to
tell -is sin.le aim in li2e* b0t yo0* t-e s01erior* as yo0 de,lare
yo0rsel2 to be* o2 all intelli.ent bein.s* w-en yo0 are as6ed are
not able to tell/ Can yo0* +e.ill0s* and yo0* Cleinias* say distin,tly
w-at is t-e aim o2 mind 1oliti,al* in ret0rn 2or t-e many e:1lanations
o2 t-in.s w-i,- I -a4e .i4en yo03
Cle/ We ,annot* Stran.er/
At-/ Well* b0t o0.-t we not to desire to see it* and to see w-ere
it is to be 2o0nd3
Cle/ "or e:am1le* w-ere3
At-/ "or e:am1le* we were sayin. t-at t-ere are 2o0r 6inds o2
4irt0e* and as t-ere are 2o0r o2 t-em* ea,- o2 t-em m0st be one/
Cle/ Certainly/
At-/ And 20rt-er* all 2o0r o2 t-em we ,all one) 2or we say t-at
,o0ra.e is 4irt0e* and t-at 1r0den,e is 4irt0e* and t-e same o2 t-e
two ot-ers* as i2 t-ey were in reality not many b0t one* t-at is*
4irt0e/
Cle/ @0ite so/
At-/ #-ere is no di22i,0lty in seein. in w-at way t-e two di22er
2rom one anot-er* and -a4e re,ei4ed two names* and so o2 t-e rest/ B0t
t-ere is more di22i,0lty in e:1lainin. w-y we ,all t-ese two and t-e
rest o2 t-em by t-e sin.le name o2 4irt0e/
Cle/ $ow do yo0 mean3
At-/ I -a4e no di22i,0lty in e:1lainin. w-at I mean/ Let 0s
distrib0te t-e s0bje,t ;0estions and answers/
Cle/ On,e more* w-at do yo0 mean3
At-/ As6 me w-at is t-at one t-in. w-i,- ,all 4irt0e* and t-en a.ain
s1ea6 o2 as two* one 1art bein. ,o0ra.e and t-e ot-er wisdom/ I will
tell yo0 -ow t-at o,,0rs(9One o2 t-em -as to do wit- 2ear) in t-is t-e
beasts also 1arti,i1ate* and ;0ite yo0n. ,-ildren9I mean ,o0ra.e)
2or a ,o0ra.eo0s tem1er is a .i2t o2 nat0re and not o2 reason/ B0t
wit-o0t reason t-ere ne4er -as been* or is* or will be a wise and
0nderstandin. so0l) it is o2 a di22erent nat0re/
Cle/ #-at is tr0e/
At-/ I -a4e now told yo0 in w-at way t-e two are di22erent* and do
yo0 in ret0rn tell me in w-at way t-ey are one and t-e same/ S011ose
t-at I as6 yo0 in w-at way t-e 2o0r are one* and w-en yo0 -a4e
answered me* yo0 will -a4e a ri.-t to as6 o2 me in ret0rn in w-at
way t-ey are 2o0r) and t-en let 0s 1ro,eed to en;0ire w-et-er in t-e
,ase o2 t-in.s w-i,- -a4e a name and also a de2inition to t-em* tr0e
6nowled.e ,onsists in 6nowin. t-e name only and not t-e de2inition/
Can -e w-o is .ood 2or anyt-in. be i.norant o2 all t-is wit-o0t
dis,redit w-ere .reat and .lorio0s tr0t-s are ,on,erned3
Cle/ I s011ose not/
At-/ And is t-ere anyt-in. .reater to t-e le.islator and t-e
.0ardian o2 t-e law* and to -im w-o t-in6s t-at -e e:,els all ot-er
men in 4irt0e* and -as won t-e 1alm o2 e:,ellen,e* t-at t-ese 4ery
;0alities o2 w-i,- we are now s1ea6in.9,o0ra.e* tem1eran,e* wisdom*
j0sti,e3
Cle/ $ow ,an t-ere be anyt-in. .reater3
At-/ And o0.-t not t-e inter1reters* t-e tea,-ers t-e law.i4ers* t-e
.0ardians o2 t-e ot-er ,iti<ens* to e:,el t-e rest o2 man6ind* and
1er2e,tly to s-ow -im w-o desires to learn and 6now or w-ose e4il
a,tions re;0ire to be 10nis-ed and re1ro4ed* w-at is t-e nat0re o2
4irt0e and 4i,e3 Or s-all some 1oet w-o -as 2o0nd -is way into t-e
,ity* or some ,-an,e 1erson w-o 1retends to be an instr0,tor o2 yo0t-*
s-ow -imsel2 to be better t-an -im w-o -as won t-e 1ri<e 2or e4ery
4irt0e3 And ,an we wonder t-at w-en t-e .0ardians are not ade;0ate
in s1ee,- or a,tion* and -a4e no ade;0ate 6nowled.e o2 4irt0e* t-e
,ity bein. 0n.0arded s-o0ld e:1erien,e t-e ,ommon 2ate o2 ,ities in
o0r day3
Cle/ WonderD no/
At-/ Well* t-en* m0st we do as we said3 Or ,an we .i4e o0r .0ardians
a more 1re,ise 6nowled.e o2 4irt0e in s1ee,- and a,tion t-an t-e
many -a4e3 or is t-ere any way in w-i,- o0r ,ity ,an be made to
resemble t-e -ead and senses o2 rational bein.s be,a0se 1ossessin.
s0,- a .0ardian 1ower3
Cle/ W-at* Stran.er* is t-e dri2t o2 yo0r ,om1arison3
At-/ %o we not see t-at t-e ,ity is t-e tr0n6* and are not t-e
yo0n.er .0ardians* w-o are ,-osen 2or t-eir nat0ral .i2ts* 1la,ed in
t-e -ead o2 t-e state* -a4in. t-eir so0ls all 20ll o2 eyes* wit- w-i,-
t-ey loo6 abo0t t-e w-ole ,ity3 #-ey 6ee1 wat,- and -and o4er t-eir
1er,e1tions to t-e memory* and in2orm t-e elders o2 all t-at -a11ens
in t-e ,ity) and t-ose w-om we ,om1ared to t-e mind* be,a0se t-ey -a4e
many wise t-o0.-ts9t-at is to say* t-e old men9ta6e ,o0nsel and ma6in.
0se o2 t-e yo0n.er men as t-eir ministers* and ad4isin. wit- t-em9in
t-is way bot- to.et-er tr0ly 1reser4e t-e w-ole state(9S-all t-is or
some ot-er be t-e order o2 o0r state3 Are all o0r ,iti<ens to be e;0al
in a,;0irements* or s-all t-ere be s1e,ial 1ersons amon. t-em w-o -a4e
re,ei4ed a more ,are20l trainin. and ed0,ation3
Cle/ #-at t-ey s-o0ld be e;0al* my) .ood* sir* is im1ossible/
At-/ #-en we o0.-t to 1ro,eed to some more e:a,t trainin. t-an any
w-i,- -as 1re,eded/
Cle/ Certainly/
At-/ And m0st not t-at o2 w-i,- we are in need be t-e one to w-i,-
we were j0st now all0din.3
Cle/ 8ery tr0e/
At-/ %id we not say t-at t-e wor6man or .0ardian* i2 -e be 1er2e,t
in e4ery res1e,t* o0.-t not only to be able to see t-e many aims*
b0t -e s-o0ld 1ress onward to t-e one3 t-is -e s-o0ld 6now* and
6nowin.* order all t-in.s wit- a 4iew to it/
Cle/ #r0e/
At-/ And ,an any one -a4e a more e:a,t way o2 ,onsiderin. or
,ontem1latin./ anyt-in.* t-an t-e bein. able to loo6 at one idea
.at-ered 2rom many di22erent t-in.s3
Cle/ Per-a1s not/
At-/ !ot APer-a1s not*A b0t ACertainly not*A my .ood sir* is t-e
ri.-t answer/ #-ere ne4er -as been a tr0er met-od t-an t-is dis,o4ered
by any man/
Cle/ I bow to yo0r a0t-ority* Stran.er) let 0s 1ro,eed in t-e way
w-i,- yo0 1ro1ose/
At-/ #-en* as wo0ld a11ear* we m0st ,om1el t-e .0ardians o2 o0r
di4ine state to 1er,ei4e* in t-e 2irst 1la,e* w-at t-at 1rin,i1le is
w-i,- is t-e same in all t-e 2o0r9t-e same* as we a22irm* in ,o0ra.e
and in tem1eran,e* and in j0sti,e and in 1r0den,e* and w-i,-* bein.
one* we ,all as we o0.-t* by t-e sin.le name o2 4irt0e/ #o t-is* my
2riends* we will* i2 yo0 1lease* -old 2ast* and not let .o 0ntil we
-a4e s022i,iently e:1lained w-at t-at is to w-i,- we are to loo6*
w-et-er to be re.arded as one* or as a w-ole* or as bot-* or in
w-ate4er way/ Are we li6ely e4er to be in a 4irt0o0s ,ondition* i2
we ,annot tell w-et-er 4irt0e is many* or 2o0r* or one3 Certainly*
i2 we ta6e ,o0nsel amon. o0rsel4es* we s-all in some way ,ontri4e t-at
t-is 1rin,i1le -as a 1la,e amon.st 0s) b0t i2 yo0 -a4e made 01 yo0r
mind t-at we s-o0ld let t-e matter alone* we will/
Cle/ We m0st not* Stran.er* by t-e &od o2 stran.ers I swear t-at
we m0st not* 2or in o0r o1inion yo0 s1ea6 most tr0ly) b0t we s-o0ld
li6e to 6now -ow yo0 will a,,om1lis- yo0r 10r1ose/
At-/ Wait a little be2ore yo0 as6) and let 0s* 2irst o2 all* be
;0ite a.reed wit- one anot-er t-at t-e 10r1ose -as to be a,,om1lis-ed/
Cle/ Certainly* it o0.-t to be* i2 it ,an be/
Ast/ Well* and abo0t t-e .ood and t-e -ono0rable* are we to ta6e t-e
same 4iew3 Are o0r .0ardians only to 6now t-at ea,- o2 t-em is many*
or* also -ow and in w-at way t-ey are one3
Cle/ #-ey m0st ,onsider also in w-at sense t-ey are one/
At-/ And are t-ey to ,onsider only* and to be 0nable to set 2ort-
w-at t-ey t-in63
Cle/ Certainly not) t-at wo0ld be t-e state o2 a sla4e/
At-/ And may not t-e same be said o2 all .ood t-in.s9t-at t-e tr0e
.0ardians o2 t-e laws o0.-t to 6now t-e tr0t- abo0t t-em* and to be
able to inter1ret t-em in words* and ,arry t-em o0t in a,tion* j0d.in.
o2 w-at is and w-at is not well* a,,ordin. to nat0re3
Cle/ Certainly/
At-/ Is not t-e 6nowled.e o2 t-e &ods w-i,- we -a4e set 2ort- wit-
so m0,- <eal one o2 t-e noblest sorts o2 6nowled.e)9to 6now t-at
t-ey are* and 6now -ow .reat is t-eir 1ower* as 2ar as in man lies3 do
indeed e:,0se t-e mass o2 t-e ,iti<ens* w-o only 2ollow t-e 4oi,e o2
t-e laws* b0t we re20se to admit as .0ardians any w-o do not labo0r to
obtain e4ery 1ossible e4iden,e t-at t-ere is res1e,tin. t-e &ods)
o0r ,ity is 2orbidden and not allowed to ,-oose as a .0ardian o2 t-e
law* or to 1la,e in t-e sele,t order o2 4irt0e* -im w-o is not an
ins1ired man* and -as not labo0red at t-ese t-in.s/
Cle/ It is ,ertainly j0st* as yo0 say* t-at -e w-o is indolent abo0t
s0,- matters or in,a1able s-o0ld be reje,ted* and t-at t-in.s
-ono0rable s-o0ld be 10t away 2rom -im/
At-/ Are we ass0red t-at t-ere are two t-in.s w-i,- lead men to
belie4e in t-e &ods* as we -a4e already stated3
Cle/ W-at are t-ey3
At-/ One is t-e ar.0ment abo0t t-e so0l* w-i,- -as been already
mentioned9t-at it is t-e eldest* and most di4ine o2 all t-in.s* to
w-i,- motion attainin. .eneration .i4es 1er1et0al e:isten,e) t-e ot-er
was an ar.0ment 2rom t-e order o2 t-e motion o2 t-e stars* and o2
all t-in.s 0nder t-e dominion o2 t-e mind w-i,- ordered t-e
0ni4erse/ I2 a man loo6 01on t-e world not li.-tly or i.norantly*
t-ere was ne4er any one so .odless w-o did not e:1erien,e an e22e,t
o11osite to t-at w-i,- t-e many ima.ine/ "or t-ey t-in6 t-at t-ose w-o
-andle t-ese matters by t-e -el1 o2 astronomy* and t-e a,,om1anyin.
arts o2 demonstration* may be,ome .odless* be,a0se t-ey see* as 2ar as
t-ey ,an see* t-in.s -a11enin. by ne,essity* and not by an intelli.ent
will a,,om1lis-in. .ood/
Cle/ B0t w-at is t-e 2a,t3
At-/ J0st t-e o11osite* as I said* o2 t-e o1inion w-i,- on,e
1re4ailed amon. men* t-at t-e s0n and stars are wit-o0t so0l/ E4en
in t-ose days men wondered abo0t t-em* and t-at w-i,- is now
as,ertained was t-en ,onje,t0red by some w-o -ad a more e:a,t
6nowled.e o2 t-em9t-at i2 t-ey -ad been t-in.s wit-o0t so0l* and -ad
no mind* t-ey ,o0ld ne4er -a4e mo4ed wit- n0meri,al e:a,tness so
wonder20l) and e4en at t-at time some 4ent0red to -a<ard t-e
,onje,t0re t-at mind was t-e orderer o2 t-e 0ni4erse/ B0t t-ese same
1ersons a.ain mista6in. t-e nat0re o2 t-e so0l* w-i,- t-ey ,on,ei4ed
to be yo0n.er and not older t-an t-e body* on,e more o4ert0rned t-e
world* or rat-er* I s-o0ld say* t-emsel4es) 2or t-e bodies w-i,-
t-ey saw mo4in. in -ea4en all a11eared to be 20ll o2 stones* and
eart-* and many ot-er li2eless s0bstan,es* and to t-ese t-ey
assi.ned t-e ,a0ses o2 all t-in.s/ S0,- st0dies .a4e rise to m0,-
at-eism and 1er1le:ity* and t-e 1oets too6 o,,asion to be
ab0si4e9,om1arin. t-e 1-iloso1-ers to s-e9do.s 0tterin. 4ain -owlin.s*
and tal6in. ot-er nonsense o2 t-e same sort/ B0t now* as I said* t-e
,ase is re4ersed/
Cle/ $ow so3
At-/ !o man ,an be a tr0e wors-i11er o2 t-e &ods w-o does not 6now
t-ese two 1rin,i1les9t-at t-e so0l is t-e eldest o2 all t-in.s w-i,-
are born* and is immortal and r0les o4er all bodies) moreo4er* as I
-a4e now said se4eral times* -e w-o -as not ,ontem1lated t-e mind o2
nat0re w-i,- is said to e:ist in t-e stars* and .one t-ro0.- t-e
1re4io0s trainin.* and seen t-e ,onne,tion o2 m0si, wit- t-ese t-in.s*
and -armoni<ed t-em all wit- laws and instit0tions* is not able to
.i4e a reason o2 s0,- t-in.s as -a4e a reason/ And -e w-o is 0nable to
a,;0ire t-is in addition to t-e ordinary 4irt0es o2 a ,iti<en* ,an
-ardly be a .ood r0ler o2 a w-ole state) b0t -e s-o0ld be t-e
s0bordinate o2 ot-er r0lers/ W-ere2ore* Cleinias and +e.ill0s* let
0s ,onsider w-et-er we may not add to all t-e ot-er laws w-i,- we -a4e
dis,0ssed t-is 20rt-er one9t-at t-e no,t0rnal assembly o2 t-e
ma.istrates* w-i,- -as also s-ared in t-e w-ole s,-eme o2 ed0,ation
1ro1osed by 0s* s-all be a .0ard set a,,ordin. to law 2or t-e
sal4ation o2 t-e state/ S-all we 1ro1ose t-is3
Cle/ Certainly* my .ood 2riend* we will i2 t-e t-in. is in any
de.ree 1ossible/
At-/ Let 0s ma6e a ,ommon e22ort to .ain s0,- an obje,t) 2or I too
will .ladly s-are in t-e attem1t/ O2 t-ese matters I -a4e -ad m0,-
e:1erien,e* and -a4e o2ten ,onsidered t-em* and I dare say t-at I
s-all be able to 2ind ot-ers w-o will also -el1/
Cle/ I a.ree* Stran.er* t-at we s-o0ld 1ro,eed alon. t-e road in
w-i,- &od is .0idin. 0s) and -ow we ,an 1ro,eed ri.-tly -as now to
be in4esti.ated and e:1lained/
At-/ O +e.ill0s and Cleinias* abo0t t-ese matters we ,annot
le.islate 20rt-er 0ntil t-e ,o0n,il is ,onstit0ted) w-en t-at is done*
t-en we will determine w-at a0t-ority t-ey s-all -a4e o2 t-eir own)
b0t t-e e:1lanation o2 -ow t-is is all to be ordered wo0ld only be
.i4en ri.-tly in a lon. dis,o0rse/
Cle/ W-at do yo0 mean* and w-at new t-in. is t-is3
At-/ In t-e 2irst 1la,e* a list wo0ld -a4e to be made o0t o2 t-ose
w-o by t-eir a.es and st0dies and dis1ositions and -abits are well
2itted 2or t-e d0ty o2 a .0ardian/ In t-e ne:t 1la,e* it will not be
easy 2or t-em to dis,o4er t-emsel4es w-at t-ey o0.-t to learn* or
be,ome t-e dis,i1le o2 one w-o -as already made t-e dis,o4ery/
"0rt-ermore* to write down t-e times at w-i,-* and d0rin. w-i,-*
t-ey o0.-t to re,ei4e t-e se4eral 6inds o2 instr0,tion* wo0ld be a
4ain t-in.) 2or t-e learners t-emsel4es do not 6now w-at is learned to
ad4anta.e 0ntil t-e 6nowled.e w-i,- is t-e res0lt o2 learnin. -as
2o0nd a 1la,e in t-e so0l o2 ea,-/ And so t-ese details* alt-o0.- t-ey
,o0ld not be tr0ly said to be se,ret* mi.-t be said to be in,a1able o2
bein. stated be2ore-and* be,a0se w-en stated t-ey wo0ld -a4e no
meanin./
Cle/ W-at t-en are we to do* Stran.er* 0nder t-ese ,ir,0mstan,es3
At-/ As t-e 1ro4erb says* t-e answer is no se,ret* b0t o1en to all
o2 0s(9We m0st ris6 t-e w-ole on t-e ,-an,e o2 t-rowin.* as t-ey
say* t-ri,e si: or t-ri,e a,e* and I am willin. to s-are wit- yo0
t-e dan.er by statin. and e:1lainin. to yo0 my 4iews abo0t ed0,ation
and n0rt0re* w-i,- is t-e ;0estion ,omin. to t-e s0r2a,e a.ain/ #-e
dan.er is not a sli.-t or ordinary one* and I wo0ld ad4ise yo0*
Cleinias* in 1arti,0lar* to see to t-e matter) 2or i2 yo0 order
ri.-tly t-e ,ity o2 t-e +a.netes* or w-ate4er name &od may .i4e it*
yo0 will obtain t-e .reatest .lory) or at any rate yo0 will be t-o0.-t
t-e most ,o0ra.eo0s o2 men in t-e estimation o2 1osterity/ %ear
,om1anions* i2 t-is o0r di4ine assembly ,an only be establis-ed* to
t-em we will -and o4er t-e ,ity) none o2 t-e 1resent ,om1any o2
le.islators* as I may ,all t-em* wo0ld -esitate abo0t t-at/ And t-e
state will be 1er2e,ted and be,ome a wa6in. reality* w-i,- a little
w-ile a.o we attem1ted to ,reate as a dream and in idea only* min.lin.
to.et-er reason and mind in one ima.e* in t-e -o1e t-at o0r ,iti<ens
mi.-t be d0ly min.led and ri.-tly ed0,ated) and bein. ed0,ated* and
dwellin. in t-e ,itadel o2 t-e land* mi.-t be,ome 1er2e,t .0ardians*
s0,- as we -a4e ne4er seen in all o0r 1re4io0s li2e* by reason o2
t-e sa4in. 4irt0e w-i,- is in t-em/
+e./ %ear Cleinias* a2ter all t-at -as been said* eit-er we m0st
detain t-e Stran.er* and by s011li,ations and in all manner o2 ways
ma6e -im s-are in t-e 2o0ndation o2 t-e ,ity* or we m0st .i4e 01 t-e
0nderta6in./
Cle/ 8ery tr0e* +e.ill0s) and yo0 m0st join wit- me in detainin.
-im/
+e./ I will/
9#$E E!%9
/