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RememberingTheOklahomaCityBombing20YearsLater:NPR

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20
P 19, 2015

5:18 PM

AllThingsConsidered

7min4sec

NPR'sArunRathspeakswithMarkPotokoftheSouthernPovertyLawCenterabout
thebombingandthethreatofdomesticterrorismtoday.

ARUNRATH,HOST:
Twentyyearsagotoday,FlorenceRogerswasbackonthejobafteravacationinthe
Caribbean.ShewastheheadoftheFederalEmployeesCreditUnion,holdinga
morningmeaninginherofficeattheAlfredP.MurrahFederalbuildinginOklahoma
City.HereisRogersinaninterviewrecordedbytheFBI.
(SOUNDBITEOFINTERVIEW)
FLORENCEROGERS:Ihadjustturnedaroundinmychairwhenthebombwentoff.
Andtheyallthegirlsthatwasintheofficewithmehaddisappeared.Realizationset
insomewhat,andIrealizedthatIdon'tknowwheretheyare.They'regone.
(SOUNDBITEOFARCHIVEDRECORDING)
UNIDENTIFIEDMAN#1:There'sbeensomekindofexplosiondowntown.
UNIDENTIFIEDWOMAN#1:Canyougivemealocation?
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UNIDENTIFIEDMAN#1:We'vehadanexplosion.Weneedhelp.
UNIDENTIFIEDWOMAN#1:Adam,38,areyouonthenorthsideoftheFederal
Buildingwithpeopleburied?
(SOUNDBITEOFARCHIVEDRECORDING)
UNIDENTIFIEDWOMAN#2:Istheresomeonethere?
UNIDENTIFIEDWOMAN#3:Mydaughter'sone,andshe'sinthere.
(SOUNDBITEOFARCHIVEDRECORDING)
UNIDENTIFIEDMAN#2:Theypulledfivelittlekidsoutandcoupleoflittlecouple
ofladies.
(SOUNDBITEOFARCHIVEDRECORDING)
UNIDENTIFIEDMAN#3:Incredible.TheAlfredMurrahbuildingit'salmostgone
completely.Halfofithascollapsed.
(SOUNDBITEOFARCHIVEDRECORDING)
UNIDENTIFIEDMAN#3:Let'smoveout.
RATH:April19,1995theOklahomaCitybombing,themostdestructiveactof
homegrownterrorisminournation'shistory.
(SOUNDBITEOFARCHIVEDBROADCAST)
ROBERTSIEGEL,HOST:
AmassiveimplosionrippedapartthemainfederalofficebuildinginOklahomaCity
today.
RATH:ThateveningonAllThingsConsidered,NPR'sRobertSiegelspokewith
reporterMarkWoodwardofmemberstationKGOU.
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(SOUNDBITEOFARCHIVEDBROADCAST)
SIEGEL:And,Mark,whatcanyoutellusaboutthescenesofar?
MARKWOODWARD:Rescueworkersarehavingtocrawlontheirstomachs,crawling
overcorpsestogettothepeoplethattheycanhearcryingandscreamingforhelpin
differentpartsofthatbuilding.Andthey'redoingeverythingtheycanrightnowtoget
tothosepeople.
RATH:Afertilizerbombhiddeninarentaltruckwasbehindthedevastation.The
blast,equalto4,000poundsofTNT,killed168people,including19children.Mark
PotokwasinOklahomaCityreportingforUSATodayjusthoursaftertheblast.He
saysimmediatelyafter,peoplewerespeculatingwhowasbehindthisattack?
MARKPOTOK:Well,almostuniversally,thespeculationwasthiswasajihadist
attack.Andcertaincommentatorswentonnationaltelevisionandmadeverystrong
statementssuggestingthatthatwaswhat,infact,itwas,basedonnoevidence
whatsoever.
RATH:Potoksaysthosekindofstatementsputmorelivesindanger.
POTOK:TherewasanIraqirefugee,awoman,nearOklahomaCityathomewithher
twoyearoldchild,whensuddenlyawholeshowerofbrickswerethrownright
throughherwindows.Sheheardscreechingtiresoutside,wentrunningintoa
bathroomwithherchild,lockedherselfin,andthereshebegantomiscarry.And,in
fact,herhusbandveryquicklyracedoffwithhertothehospitaltotryandsavethe
child.Ontheway,heactuallyaskedhertopleasetakeoffherveil.Hewasafraidthat
shewouldsufferevenmoreabuseatthehospital.Youknow,thetragedyofit,of
course,isthat,infact,thatchildthatbabywasstillborn.
RATH:ThenAttorneyGeneralJanetRenoannouncedanarrest.Itwasn'taMuslim
suspect.HeresheisonCSPAN.
(SOUNDBITEOFCSPANBROADCAST)
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JANETRENO:TimothyMcVeigh,age27,whowepreviouslycalledJohnDoeNumber
One,themanwiththelightbrowncrewcut,wasarrestedbylocalauthoritiesona
trafficviolationabout60milesfromOklahomaCityonWednesdaymorning.
RATH:Awhite,Americanbornterrorist.McVeigh'saccomplice,TerryNichols,
anotherwhiteAmericanwhohelpedbuildthebombandarrangeMcVeigh'sgetaway
car,surrenderedtopolicesoonafter.TwentyyearsafterreportingontheOklahoma
Citybombing,MarkPotokisnowwiththeSouthernPovertyLawCenter,wherehe
monitorsextremistgroups.Hesaysthebombingin1995wasawakeupcall.
Homegrownextremistmilitiagroupswerearealthreattothesecurityofthenation.
POTOK:IthinkitwasreallossofinnocenceforAmericansandAmerica,asanation.
Ithadbeenconsideredmoreorlessinconceivableinmanyquartersthatakindof
blueeyedAmericanboycouldbebehindanincredibleatrocitylikethis.SoIthinkit
affectedallAmericans,butitaffectedlawenforcement,inparticular.
RATH:Sotalkabouthowgovernmentshiftedlawenforcementresourcespost
OklahomaCitytopreventthesekindofattacks.
POTOK:Well,whathappenedintheaftermathofthemassacrewasthatPresidentBill
Clintonauthorizedthehiringof500moreFBIagentstobetaskedtodomestic
terrorism.Atthesametime,inthenextyearortwo,allkindsoffederalagencies
developedcapabilitiesfordealingwithterrorismor,atleast,analyzingitbecauseit
becameveryclearratherquicklythattheentirefederalgovernmentwasunderattack,
inasense.SoyouevenhadagenciesliketheU.S.ForestServicedeveloping
intelligencecapabilities.
RATH:Canyourunthroughsomeoftheplotsinthe'90sthatweredisruptedoreven
somethatweren't?
POTOK:In1997,forinstance,therewasaKlanplotincentralTexastoblowupa
particularnaturalgasrefinery.ThesethreeKlansmenandaKlanswomanhadthevery
bizarreideathatiftheydidthis,theycouldgetalllawenforcementandEMTsandso
ontorushtothesiteofthisdisaster.Andtheywould,meanwhile,traveltotheother
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sideofthecountyandrobbanks,inordertofundthecomingracewarandallthat
kindofthing.Theplotwas,infact,disruptedbytheFBI.Andatthetimeofthearrests
ofthesepeople,theauthoritiesannouncedthathadtheysucceeded,theywouldhave
murderedbetween10and30,000people.
RATH:Obviously,attentionshiftedmoretointernationalbasedplotsafter911.In
termsofspecificallywhathappenedwithU.S.lawenforcement,canyoutalkabout
whathappenedwithdomesticterrorwiththemonitoringofdomesticterrorgroups.
Weretherearefeweragents,resourcesyouknow,thatkindofthing?
POTOK:Theattentionoflawenforcement,especiallytoppolicymakinglevels,Ithink,
isstilloverlyfocusedonjihadistterrorism.Obviously,thatisanincrediblyrealthreat
andhastobepaidverycloseattentionto.Butthefactisthereareanenormous
numberoftheseplotsunfoldingstilltoday.Andinfact,we'veseenakindofspeeding
upofdomesticterrorisminthelastfiveorsixyears,inparticular,sinceBarackObama
tookoffice.Justacoupleofyearsago,fourNorthGeorgiamilitiamenwereconvicted,
forinstance,ofaplottoattackfoursoutherncities,includingAtlanta,withricin,the
deadlybiologicaltoxin.Sothere'sanawfullotofthiskindofthinggoingonoutthere,
andweneedtopayattentiontoit.
RATH:MarkPotokisaseniorfellowattheSouthernPovertyLawCenterin
Montgomery,Ala.,wherehemonitorsextremistgroups.
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