Miss Gish Book Talk interview 4 Johnny Navarro

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I made Henry a destroyer so I could remain a dreamer.

Johnny Navarro

Kill Devil Delta cover by Matt ArtPix (www.mattartpix.com)

Kill Devil Delta: whats behind the title?

It comes from the Crowstone song Blues For The teenage Century Dead: If you cant
find the devil, youll kill someone else instead. It is about trying to find and destroy the enemy
within. The Delta in the title refers to the Thames estuary.

KDD is a heady mix of history, music, politics, dystopian and dare I say it, memoirs.
If you had to define it, how would you describe the book, and what kind of reader do
you think it will appeal to?
I had no idea what type of book I was writing when I started; I was just doing it to keep
from going insane. Much later, when it assumed some kind of shape, I happened to be reading
a series of works based on the Faust legend, one of which was Mephisto by Klaus Mann,
described as a Roman clef on the World Brain (Internet): a novel with a key about real life
overlaid with a faade of fiction. That is the perfect description of Kill Devil Delta. I have
always believed that people who like my band (Devilish Presley) are folks who file their music
alphabetically rather than by genre; this book is for the same people. Too many modern books
read like they were written by a committee of publishers and editors frantically trying not to

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offend potential customers and desperate to fit in with the latest trend.

You are first and foremost a musician; when did you decide to sit down and write a
novel? Could you take us through the writing process (if there was any?) ie: was
there some kind of spark when you thought Im going to write a novel, or have you
written bits and pieces over time and then decided you had material for a book?
When did you start writing the novel? What was your inspiration? How long has it
taken you to complete the novel, how do you write (do you need silence, do you type
or write longhand first, etc.?)
A series of events led me to a very bad place mentally, physically and figuratively. I
started writing to try and save myself. The spark was seeing a photograph of an old fisherman
called Robert Johnson in the Leigh-on-Sea heritage centre which brought to mind Robert
Johnson, the blues musician who famously sold his soul to the devil like Faust. I was well
aware that some people say the blues arose as the heart cry of an oppressed people, and at
that time I felt like I needed to play the blues.
The first draft was a series of mini-biographies about the fictional blues musicians I
imagined living in the Old Town. This is why Henrys book is called Blues For The Teenage
Century Dead. It is crucial to understand the link between Robert Johnsons Cross Road Blues
and Crowstones Crowstone Blues and to realise Henry wasnt selling his soul, he was getting a
refund. My next inspiration came from a series of very vivid dreams I had following my dark
night of the soul. These helped flesh out the characters in the story, which was called
Deepsville at that time. I got a bit of a shock when I read a book of memoirs called Joscelynes
Beach written by a local character called Sonny Joscelyne, because it was full of the
characters I had seen previously in my dreams. From that moment on my book almost wrote
itself. It has taken almost two and a half years to complete. I do like peace and quiet when I
am typing which, as you yourself know, is almost impossible to find these days. I am very
much a bash it down and tart it up later kind of writer and musician because I came of age in
the punk era.

What do you think are the main differences between song writing and novel writing?
Do you find yourself working in different ways?
Novel writing is too much like hard work for my liking to be honest, and because I am
very impatient, it has been a bit of a chore at times. The bashing it all down and the creative
roll part is great; all the polishing, and yet more polishing not so. I always start a new song
with a title; I have to have a title and my lyrics are written first before Jacqui (Johnnys
partner-in-crime in Devilish Presley and Crowstone Ed) and I work on the music together. We
work really fast, and if something isnt working within ten minutes we drop it. In the studio we

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have Kevin Poire to run things by, of course. So there were definitely times before Matt (Matt
ArtPix, designer and typesetter on KDD Ed) did the typesetting and you began the
proofreading when I felt I had bitten off more than I could chew! Id like thank you both
publicly here, I couldnt have done it without you.

Who is Henry Douanier, the anti-hero of your novel?

My evil twin in a parallel universe, an imaginary person in a true story.

Its really interesting that you give us this flawed main character, and even though
the narrator is biased against him, you really leave it to us to decide what has made
him who he is and do what he does. Where do you place him/yourself in the debate
of nature vs nurture? He has a supportive father but a terrible, cruel mother; he
makes what could be seen as bad choices in life but his nature (artistic, going
against the grain, with a bohemian soul) also pitches him against mainstream
society and he cannot fit in (I do feel for him). He is at the same time repulsed by
and attracted to success and money; he has some mental health issues which he
tries to contain; he is a victim of the greed that seems to have become a virtue and a
sure sign of success in our society and he is redeemed by his love of dogs, his
relationship with Biba Fox, his hatred of hypocrisy although he sometimes is guilty
as charged and his sheer bloody determination; his moral code is skewed
He is flawed simply because he is a human being, what he calls an unnatural animal.
His true (mother) nature is completely amoral and selfish; his father nurtured him with his
socialist principles to be a more caring and sharing person. The unresolvable conflict in his soul
led him ultimately to invent Feelism as an imaginary solution. Who you pretend to be might
be who you actually are. I made Henry a destroyer so I could remain a dreamer.

Who is the mysterious narrator?

I have no idea, but I do know he/she/it would find the words Mystery, Myth and
Mystic equally offensive and dangerous. With your eyes closed in the silent depths of
darkness you might find he/she/it hiding there So be wary of that devils advocate.

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Leigh Hill, Leigh-on-Sea

You have woven Henrys story with that of his ancestors and that of the area, Leighon-Sea (the Old Town in the book). History seems to be very important for you.
According to you, what can history teach us or rather what can we learn from it?
I had to put him in that setting really; I was inspired by the Genius Loci (spirit of place)
between the Crowstone and Hadleigh castle. History is interesting to me simply because people
always assume our current position, the glorious present, is an absolute and only the past is
made relative. It makes me laugh. People love facts these days, but they never seem aware
that the conclusions they draw from those facts are often wrong. I dont think most people are
capable of learning from history really, any more than I think children are our future. The
human race is too fucked up. All we really need to learn is how to love one another and how
much is enough Dont hold your breath.

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St Clements church, Leigh-on-Sea

How much research have you done for this book, and how did you go about doing it?
A great deal actually and I did it by haunting second-hand bookshops! I just read
everything I could find about the area and local history. I am a recently evicted Londoner, an
outsider, so it was all new to me.

A lot of characters in the novel are based on real people you have encountered
throughout your life. Are you prepared to hear from some of them if they pick up the
book and recognise themselves?
If the easily offended are tempted to delve between the pages, an extreme sense of
levity should be brought to bear. The only people I want to hear from are those ordering a
copy. As for the rest, why didnt I hear from them when I was down on my luck?

Your time on the alternative music scene in London, around the country and abroad
seems to have been a really trying time, and yet, youve stuck to it and your
genuine love of music and musicians really shines through the book. You are about
to release a new album with your band Devilish Presley and you have a tour
scheduled for November/October 2015. What does it mean to you to still be able to
make music and how would you sum up your experience? Is there anything you
would do differently if you had the chance?

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I am glad you got the genuine love of music and musicians aspect. I do believe that all
music is sacred, actually, and I feel incredibly lucky because our fans (for want of a better
word) financed our new album with the Crowdfunder campaign. Im like anyone else, I need to
keep busy to stop me from dwelling on shit that is bad for me. I cant help being creative, it
comes out of my mood swings. Fortunately I have a small, but loyal, group of people who
support what Devilish Presley does. When I am down in the dumps I feel that I have got
nothing much back from music in terms of money and fame. But every good person Ive met,
and every single interesting experience I have had since I was fifteen has been connected with
music the Old Free Music. Je ne regrette rien!

Crowstone (Biba Fox and Johnny Navarro) Tina Korhonen, 2014

The book comes with a 15-track CD from Crowstone, Henrys band in the book. The
songs are acoustic tracks full of dark, moody tales inspired by the sea and social
injustice. I love the way songs mentioned in the book end up on the album, it really
brings the story to life, mixing fiction and reality. Ill have the same type of question
about the illustrations in the book: they have been painted by Biba Fox, another
character in the novel really painted by your partner (and Devilish Presley
member) Jacqui. Did she develop the images after having read the novel or did she
get inspiration from discussing the book with you/working on the Crowstone songs?
Oscar Wilde was right when he said that life imitates Art far more than Art imitates
Life, and of course mixing fiction with reality is a form of magic. The idea for the book came

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first, then the songs were recorded with Zac at Goldmasters in Leigh-on-Sea. Jacqui based her
illustrations on both the songs and the book. Everything is connected. The lyrics on the new
Devilish Presley album The Electric Ballroom were inspired by the book and the video for the
single Devil Gate Drive will bring everything together. The video will contain the key to fully
understanding the book.

There is a very strong social side to the book and a sense of real, visceral anger
towards the ruling elites (politicians, landlords, property developers, music business
executives, etc.) and the way they (and their beloved rampant commercialisation of
pretty much everything) wreck the lives of decent ordinary people, from the
meaningless slaughter of young men in WWI to Henrys life-long struggle against
poverty to the rise of the monstrous Sod Johnson. Have you always been socially and
politically aware? Do you think it is important for artists (musicians, writers) to be
politically aware and use their work to protest against the state of society/the
world? Do you think society needs these artists to go against the grain and offer an
alternative vision?
I think we need to hear more from the losers, but that isnt going to happen. I dont
know if artists can go against cultural policy in these days of Arts Council funding? Where are
the outsiders in all this? I agree with Jean Genet, I am always on the side of the underdog but
there are no bohemian drunken poet-thieves anymore, everyone has a job to lose. Society
doesnt need or want artists, only advertising. Perhaps it is a good thing that the World Brain is
turning artists into digital peasants, after all it is only people with nothing to lose who will tell
you the truth. The New Bohemians, what Henry calls the Beaumatique Deepniks, are all about
concealment, not confrontation.

Everything is political, they say Do you agree?

Politics is pigshit. Salvation is a personal matter, politics is show business for ugly people.

Towards the end of the book, the vivid way you describe the Mer-chavs in 2027
(idiotic, obese, vulgar and brash, their brains fried by technology, obsessed with cars
and bling) in all their grotesque imbecility really scared me as I thought: this is
already happening, all around us, I see them if I open my windows! Is there a way
we could stop people from becoming obeying, shopping zombies without an ounce of
free-thinking left in them?
I wanted to take back the word chav and apply it to the really vile element, the latterday fake-tanned seaside Yuppies in their hideous four wheel drive land crushers. The Mer-

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chavs are the result of the long 1980s that started with Thatcher and which continue to
stamp on human faces today. Henry Douanier believed that only one in five people can think
for themselves and if that is true, it means we are surrounded by 80% of the population who
dont. That is scary.

You clearly think that the internet is one of the enemies of society and you cleverly
show the way it dumbs down discourse and information (especially with the
hilarious INSTANTCRAP! Sections) and makes everyone a little bit more stupid. The
internet is full of contradiction. It makes people unable to concentrate and think and
seems to fry peoples brain; at the same time, it offers a lot of alternative opinion
and angle on the news and relays information from around the world; it has become
a tool for creative people to share their work and spread information, and yet file
sharing and streaming is rapidly destroying the music industry and is preventing
artists from earning a reasonable living from their work. Art is devalued. Do you
think we will ever be able to find the right balance?
Ah! The opium of the people. The World Brain isnt an enemy, any more than a
television channel was an enemy. As always, its the vested interests working away behind the
scenes furthering their own ends who are the enemy. I hear a lot about alternative opinions
and news but I still dont see much action. Armed with all that wonderful information you are
still a victim unless you are fully prepared to challenge the people keeping you down.
Otherwise you are just one of those silly cunts in a Guy Fawkes mask making a plastics
manufacturer richer. The real problem for anti-social type like myself is that the World Brain
brings me into contact with other people. I dont believe real art can be devalued, any more
than home taping killed music. I dont care about making a living because paid work is not the
source of my self-esteem.

KDD has made me laugh out loud several times. There is satire, dark comedy and wit
in there as well as some philosophical musings about the human condition. It
paints quite a dark portrait of society and where it is heading, but humour is always
round the corner. Do you think it is essential to manage to retain some sense of
humour even in the most challenging situations?
Gallows humour yeah, you got that right Miss Gish! I hope everyone who reads it
understands that. The universe may well turn out to be a shaggy dog story, but we the
downtrodden souls should all try and be a bit nicer to each other as we wait for the punchline.

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Later on in his life, Henry becomes some kind of high priest/guru of Feelism, some
sort of religion which at last brings him fame and followers. Could you define what
Feelism is all about and how you had the idea for it? Do you think it inevitable that
someone like Henry, after so much struggle and disappointment throughout his life,
turns to religion? Isnt it a sign of weakness though a sign of an inability to accept
the human condition and his responsibility and choices, a complete delusion? as
well as an extension of his mental illness.
Henry was a mystic and believed Feelism had to be felt, therefore I have no way of
explaining it to you. Mystics often state that human beings need to create a sense of God for
themselves in much the same way artists pay great attention to the construction of their work.
I got the name Feelism from the feel musicians speak about in music, that indefinable and
subjective groove. There is no God in Feelism, not as an objective fact, just a feel, a
subjective experience, a mystical incident in the ground of being. Feelism is compassion which
is a very difficult virtue, because it means we have to go beyond egotism, insecurity and
prejudice.
Here is an extract from a hymn by the Reverend George Woods called The Blues God
which partly inspired the Kill Devil Delta pataphor. Hopefully people wont confuse the map
(Henry) with the territory (me).
I fell upon a map of stone, in Christs tangled hair.
Down the biblical spiral, venom spewing from my livid tongue.
Woods was the real Happy Harry, an evangelist who preached the gospel and played a
harmonium to the sinners along the Southend-on-Sea esplanade in the 20s and 30s. He was
heckled by people who may well have thought he was mentally ill, and by those who refused to
be saved from themselves. He would ask for donations from the hecklers and they would throw
coins at him. He was an entertainer

Who are your favourite writers and why? Has their work inspired your own writing
and in what way?
It changes, but William Blake, Stevie Smith, George Orwell, Oscar Wilde, Sylvia Plath,
Dylan Thomas, Mary Shelley and Kurt Vonnegut Jnr are usually on the list. Henrys all-time
favourite laugh-out-loud writer is Arthur Schopenhauer. I have no idea why I like them, I try
not to analyse things like that. Stevie Smith wrote some novels which were fictionalised
accounts of her own life, William Blakes mythology inspired me to make the characters in Kill
Devil Delta like a theatre company dramatising my ideas. George Orwells Keep The Aspidistra
Flying inspired Shabby Gentry, Dylan Thomas was one of the models for the character Blind

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Sea Bird Poor. The roman clef The Bell Jar by Sylvia Plath partly motivated me to write the
Crowstone song Inside The Bell. Obviously I was inspired reading The Return of the Soldier by
Rebecca West. These days I prefer reading poetry to novels but I enjoyed both of yours very
much indeed (Thank you! Ed).

Will there be a second novel?

Yes! Its going to be called Holy Ghetto Joe. Its another Feelism novel and I have
already started writing it. It features a character not unlike Henry Douanier called Joe Hope. In
2019, he is doing research for a book called The Silver Palm Murders about a series of grisly
killings in the 1970s on the run-down Southton pier dubbed by the press The South Coast Jack
The Ripper. He discovers to his horror that a battered old fortune telling machine (the type
with a creepy model of a gypsy inside) is giving him clues to the murder and, using the
casebook notes left by Inspector Faith, who led the investigation, he comes up with a
conspiracy theory. He later makes a chilling discovery about the true nature of the pier