DATE:

TIME:
ACTIVITY:
SESSION:

11/05/2008
8:31 A.M.
Rod Blagojevich home line incoming call.
261

SPEAKERS:
BLAGOJEVICH:
HARRIS:

Rod Blagojevich
John Harris
*

BLAGOJEVICH

Hey.

HARRIS

Hello.

BLAGOJEVICH

How's it going?

HARRIS

Okay, how are you?

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BLAGOJEVICH

You're not sure that Rahm's gonna be

chief of staff, you just think you saw
that, right?

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HARRIS

They announced it this morning. I don't

know how accurate it is, but they...

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BLAGOJEVICH

Who announced it?

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HARRIS

Ah, BBM Radio.

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BLAGOJEVICH

What'd they say?

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HARRIS

That Barack last night asked Rahm to be

his chief of staff.

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(PAUSE)

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HARRIS

Which would seem an odd way to do it.

You'd really, you wouldn't announce that
you asked him, you announce, you'd
announce that he is going to be.

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BLAGOJEVICH

Yeah I don't know.

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HARRIS

Right?

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BLAGOJEVICH

Yeah.
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Huh?

HARRIS

So that was the only kinda, ah...

BLAGOJEVICH

Right.

HARRIS

Pause.

BLAGOJEVICH

Huh?

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HARRIS

That's my only pause.

announced it.

BLAGOJEVICH

And Rahm said what?

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HARRIS

Well they, they didn't say, it just

says, you know...

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BLAGOJEVICH

That sounds like the kind of stuff you

put out there just to get your name out,
there's no downside to it, you don't do
it. Huh?

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HARRIS

Right.

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BLAGOJEVICH

Doesn't it?

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HARRIS

Right.

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Is the way they

(PAUSE)

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BLAGOJEVICH

And I gotta set, we gotta set, we gotta

set a congressional election. Ya gotta
set, the governor sets that too.

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HARRIS

Say that again.

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BLAGOJEVICH

Ya gotta set a, the governor sets the

congressional schedule for the special
election. In other words the
congressional seat here. It's gotta
be...

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HARRIS

Yes...

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BLAGOJEVICH

...a special election.

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HARRIS

...once it's vacated.

Right, right.

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BLAGOJEVICH

That'll be a mess. Geez, my sister-inlaw with... Oh Jesus.

(PAUSE)

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BLAGOJEVICH

Anybody can run for that too.

like its, ah...

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HARRIS

Yeah, you don't have to even live in the

district.

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BLAGOJEVICH

Yeah. Forrest Claypool, would he run?

I see him.

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HARRIS

That was my guess the other day.

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BLAGOJEVICH

Yeah.

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HARRIS

Yeah.

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It's not

You came up with that.

(PAUSE)

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BLAGOJEVICH

So then Rahm would have to engineer...

They'd want Claypool, wouldn't they?

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HARRIS

Ah...

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BLAGOJEVICH

Rahm, and Axelrod, that crowd.

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HARRIS

Yeah that's more of a Wilhelm, right?

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BLAGOJEVICH

Not a Wilhelm.

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HARRIS

Isn't Wilhelm closer to Axel-, ah

Claypool then Axelrod.

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BLAGOJEVICH

No, no.

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* * * * *

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(PAUSE)

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Real close.

* * * * *
HARRIS

And I mean in fact it's probably more,

you know, more credit to Obama than to
Madigan. For the common folk. Ah, you
know, inside players know, will know
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that he invested a lot of time and

effort in, the Hassert... defeat.

(PAUSE)

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BLAGOJEVICH

So, okay. How do we play this?

our thing today at 1:30, right?

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HARRIS

Yeah, 1:00, 1:30 whatever, ah, Lucio was

gonna check Obama's public schedule too,
to see...

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BLAGOJEVICH

Well, he wants to do it at 1:30 cause

Quinn's doing something at 2:00 o'clock.
I don't think it really... (UI) wants,
he wants to screw Quinn, I don't know.

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HARRIS

Right, okay.

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BLAGOJEVICH

You think we should do something today

or no?

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HARRIS

Yeah, I don't think we ought to make it

ah, that detailed. In other words, when
you talk about your search team, I think
you ought to be vague, you ought not
mention who, you just ought to say,
senior members of my staff. You know.
Ah, you ought to say that ah, you know,
again, that Barack Obama's agenda, help,
you know, help 'em, help president-elect
Obama. Ah, I've, I've given talking
points to Lucio to kind of word-smith
with Bob, for your consideration. I
think you ought to wrap it as much
around Obama as possible.

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We do

(PAUSE)

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HARRIS

Did you call Jay and congratulate him?

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BLAGOJEVICH

No.

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HARRIS

Yeah.

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BLAGOJEVICH

...okay my friend, the road to be a U.S.

Senator is, all you gotta do is, as long
as you, you knock Madigan out as

Hey, what you tell Jay now is...

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speaker, guaranteed you'll be senator.

We'll wait and see if you can do it.

HARRIS

Okay.

BLAGOJEVICH

You gonna tell him?

HARRIS

He'll say, fuck you.

BLAGOJEVICH

'kay.

HARRIS

No, I'll tell him.

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BLAGOJEVICH

Um, alright, let's think about how we

play, let me change phones, hang on.

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(Laughs).

(PAUSE)

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BLAGOJEVICH

You think I should run for my old

congressional seat? You there?

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HARRIS

Yeah, no.

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BLAGOJEVICH

Wouldn't that be somethin'?

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HARRIS

(Laughs).

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BLAGOJEVICH

Am I better off making me a senator or

taking it, you, trying to run for the
congressional seat and if I lose, I'm
still governor. (Laughs). How
ridiculous would that be?

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HARRIS

Yeah.

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(PAUSE)

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BLAGOJEVICH

Alright, what do we do with Balanoff?

We wait for him to call, right?

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HARRIS

Right. So we don't call Axelrod until

we meet with Balanoff.

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BLAGOJEVICH

Yeah, get off that hands free, just so

we can talk a little bit. So, let's
think about this now. So we, I don't
call him and congratulate him?
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HARRIS

You call Axelrod?

BLAGOJEVICH

Yeah.

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HARRIS

Um, yeah, I think you call him, but not

right away. Wait till like 10:00 or
11:00 o'clock. Eleven o'clock. See
when they're, when Balanoff's comin' in?

(PAUSE)

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BLAGOJEVICH

I'm gonna call his son, Michael, who I

like a lot, and just say hey Michael,
can you get me tickets to the White
House?

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HARRIS

Michael who?

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BLAGOJEVICH

Axelrod, his son.

me.

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HARRIS

Oh yeah?

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BLAGOJEVICH

Mm-hmm.

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HARRIS

Can you get me tickets?

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BLAGOJEVICH

To the White House, now that Obama, you

know, it's a joke.

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HARRIS

Right.

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BLAGOJEVICH

That's all. Good kid. I don't know if

I'm gonna call Ax-, I don't know. Okay,
so Balanoff calls us, hopefully, well
maybe not hopefully.

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HARRIS

Sounds like he's going to, right?.

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BLAGOJEVICH

Uh huh. Talked to Bara-, Obama. Wants

to come and see me. So he comes in and
he says what? Likes Valerie Jarrett.

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HARRIS

And he says... Yeah, I'm trying to

figure out how much, how much more
they're willing to say, from the first
meeting. I mean, it'd just be like an
incremental inch. He'll say...
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He used to work for

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BLAGOJEVICH

No, no, he was very explicit with me.

"I talked to Barack about the Senate
seat. Can I come and see you? Can I do
it tomorrow?" I said "sure".

HARRIS

Okay, so he'll say...

BLAGOJEVICH

He'll be explicit.

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HARRIS

Barack, and he says Barack would really

like Valerie but he doesn't want to say
it publicly.

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BLAGOJEVICH

Mm-hmm.

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HARRIS

And he doesn't want, he doesn't want,

anybody to know that that's what he's
asked for.

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BLAGOJEVICH

Okay.

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HARRIS

In the event you choose someone else.

He doesn't wanna embarrass himself.

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BLAGOJEVICH

Alright fine.

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HARRIS

(UI).

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BLAGOJEVICH

How bad's he want, how important is it

to him? Do I say that?

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HARRIS

Well you know your relationship with

Balanoff better than I do. (UI).

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BLAGOJEVICH

Yeah, no, don't worry about it.

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HARRIS

Close relationship then...

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BLAGOJEVICH

Pretty good.

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HARRIS

Yeah, then I think you can be more

blunt, right?

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BLAGOJEVICH

Hold it, let's talk about this now. So

do I say, how bad does he want it? I
don't think so. Maybe I say instead, I,
I say, listen, he's the president-elect,
he obviously has a lot of weight. You
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Then we say what?

So I'll...

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know, with, with his intere-, his

interests in what he would like. You
know, I, I, I, I clearly, I definitely
respect that, and, and certainly value
it. I put a value, you know, I
certainly, it's a significant thing.
However, (clears throat). Emil thinks
Obama wants him.
HARRIS

Right, right.

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BLAGOJEVICH

That, that's one factor. The other

factor is, what do I do about Mad-, I'm,
ah... Okay, I make this appointment,
what do I do about Madigan? We'd had
overtures that have been indirect, I
don't know if they'll, they'll get any
more significant. But I, I believe it's
possible, so.

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HARRIS

Mm-hmm.

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BLAGOJEVICH

My dilemma, I'm just looking at a guy

now, whose got 70 Democratic lemmings
with him. Who's talking about
impeaching me because I'm giving people
health care. Whose got the Tribune
pushing an impeachment, what?

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HARRIS

That's right, I like it so far.

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BLAGOJEVICH

Okay, he's got. Okay. Um, I don't have

Emil anymore covering my back. There's
a possibility Cullerton could be the
Senate president,...

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HARRIS

(coughs).

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BLAGOJEVICH

...whose the Godfather to Madigan's son.

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HARRIS

And threatens everything we're trying to

get done for people.

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BLAGOJEVICH

Yeah, okay.

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HARRIS

All our common goals.

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BLAGOJEVICH

Well at, and you know. Right. Okay,

I'm under federal scrutiny, because of
the president-elect and my mutual
friend. Okay? If I give them this
picture.

HARRIS

Right.

BLAGOJEVICH

How am I gonna? I have to, I, my

responsibility is to the people of
Illinois. How can I best serve them and
get things done for them, if I've got
Madigan just fucking screwing me? And
the trib-, Madigan and the Tribune keeps
screwing me, keeping me from being able,
and the only way I do things now is
going around them. And that, and that's
somethin' they're talking about
impeaching me on.

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(PAUSE)

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BLAGOJEVICH

What would you do? I mean, do I not

like try to work something out with him
and his daughter? Do I say that?

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HARRIS

You don't say that's the only way, you

just say I serious, I gotta give serious
consideration to that.

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BLAGOJEVICH

Yeah.

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HARRIS

Given what we just laid out, right?

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BLAGOJEVICH

Mm-hmm. See, the other thing is, how do

I make a play for somethin' in that end
over there? How do you bring that up?
Do you do it with Balanoff or no?

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(PAUSE)

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HARRIS

Yeah, I think Balanoff is as good as

anyone else. Is there anyone else?

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BLAGOJEVICH

Axelrod.

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HARRIS

But, it'll come to that. I mean,

somebody's gotta be the initial..
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BLAGOJEVICH

So don't raise it today?

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HARRIS

No, no, I'm saying, if you raise it

today, they can float the idea over
there...

(PAUSE)

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BLAGOJEVICH

Do I say, look, I'd be happy to send his

senator over, happy to. But I'll tell
you what would be great Tom, is his
senator and I can go to Washington and
go together and do "All Kids" all across
America. Sure could do a lot more...
Do I say that?

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HARRIS

Mm-hmm.

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BLAGOJEVICH

Do I b-, bring up Health and Human

Services?

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HARRIS

I don't know if you do that today. I

think the way you kind of lay that
groundwork is listen, if I, if he's not
gonna help me here in Illinois, I'm
fucked, and I ain't gonna be able to get
anything else done.

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BLAGOJEVICH

I like that.
Keep goin'.

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HARRIS

So, you know, I will have made his

appointment and he, I would've, I'll,
I'll be left behind.

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BLAGOJEVICH

Right.

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HARRIS

You know, hobbled and ineffect-,

ineffectual.

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BLAGOJEVICH

Right.

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HARRIS

Given the way the landscape has changed

down here. With Emil stepping down.

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BLAGOJEVICH

Right.

10

Keep goin' that's good.

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HARRIS

...Cullerton stepping up with Madigan

and you know, trying to weaken me so
that he can clear the field...

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BLAGOJEVICH

Mm-hmm

HARRIS

...for Lisa.

BLAGOJEVICH

Mm-hmm

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HARRIS

Blah, blah, blah so guys you know. You,

we have more work to do. How, how do
we, how do we accom-, how do we take
care of president-elect's wishes while
at the same time, taking care of the
people of Illinois?

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BLAGOJEVICH

Yeah. And, and, and my, and me, do I

say me?

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HARRIS

Right, by, by keeping me strong.

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BLAGOJEVICH

But I don't want that. I'm not looking

for that. I'd like to get out, the fuck
outta here. (Laughs).

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HARRIS

(Laughs). Well that's a whole

different...

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BLAGOJEVICH

Yeah.

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HARRIS

...if that's the objective.

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BLAGOJEVICH

Yeah, the objective is to, to get a good

gig over there.

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HARRIS

Well then we gotta put it on the table.

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(PAUSE)

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BLAGOJEVICH

(Sigh) Put it on there today?

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HARRIS

Yeah. I mean I'll think about it more

still...

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BLAGOJEVICH

Think about it.

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HARRIS

...before you come in.

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BLAGOJEVICH

What you're saying on, you know, I'm

fucked here and all of that. Okay.

HARRIS

Mm-hmm.

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BLAGOJEVICH

Everybody's gettin', everybody has a

chance now to play a role in history,
I've done all these things in Illinois
and I'm, now I'm left behind, fucked,
with this fucking, with this dynamic.
And unless I do something with him, and
the only thing I can think of is,
responding to these feelers on his
daughter. I'm looking at two years of
just shi-, crap and fucking
ineffectiveness. And the very way I get
things done around him now is gonna be
s-, a cause for them to s-, to impeach
me.

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HARRIS

Right.

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BLAGOJEVICH

Madigan and the Tribune.

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HARRIS

Right.

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BLAGOJEVICH

I mean maybe we should show them those

editorials. I don't know.

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HARRIS

Yeah, I think he knows about it.

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BLAGOJEVICH

I don't know. Maybe we should have 'em

there. And then just say, you know, so,
you know, what do I do about that? What
do I do about that? I'm happy to, you
know, I'd strongly consider, the
president-elect's choice and hap-, and
ch-, and be happy to work with him and,
and do it for him. But I can't, how can
I do it and then leave myself in this
position? How am I doing?

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HARRIS

Right.

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BLAGOJEVICH

Huh?

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HARRIS

Right, good, good.

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BLAGOJEVICH

One thing we should consider Tom is

maybe I'd do it, and I, and with her, I
get the fuck outta town.

HARRIS

(Laughs).

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BLAGOJEVICH

Maybe I say that. You know, I, I don't

fucking do Lisa, I just fucking take
Valerie and the two of us get the fuck
outta town together. What if I say it
that way?

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HARRIS

Yeah and also, you know...

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BLAGOJEVICH

What the, what the, you know, let's

consider. Okay? Is there, is there a
role for me out there? Do I say that?

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HARRIS

I think what your first, before that, is

say, you talk about the sacrifice you've
made.

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BLAGOJEVICH

Which is...

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HARRIS

Pers-, personal and professional.

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BLAGOJEVICH

Which is what?

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HARRIS

Meaning your family's situation, you

know, meaning, you know, your, your
prospects, your political capital, blah,
blah, blah. You've taken hits and
eroded your political capital in order
to take care of the have nots.

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BLAGOJEVICH

I like that.

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HARRIS

So you kind of set it up before you go

out there and say, I gotta, you're
making a sincere, I gotta take care of
my future.

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BLAGOJEVICH

Yeah.

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HARRIS

Because I've laid it all out there.

I've left it all in the arena.

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(PAUSE)
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Okay.

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HARRIS

You know, thinking that, you know,

there'll be time to rebuild, you know,
before the next election. But, I got
this albatross around my neck down the
street, that this guy's not gonna let me
shake, even though it ain't going
anywhere. He's keeping this fucking
investigation alive with this bullshit
indictment of Cellini.

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BLAGOJEVICH

Right.

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HARRIS

Right?

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BLAGOJEVICH

Yeah.

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HARRIS

I got fucking Madigan,

know, entertaining the
Republican's notion of
and even if they don't
investigation is gonna
dead in my tracks.

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BLAGOJEVICH

Right.

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HARRIS

So, you know, how can I...

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BLAGOJEVICH

That's right. And if Doug's tellin'

'em, what I'm tellin' Doug, that my last
play is I'll just send myself to
Washington. See? That, I can send
Valerie Jarrett, but how, how the fuck,
I'd like to follow her and get outta
town...

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HARRIS

Right.

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BLAGOJEVICH

...anything for me out there?

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HARRIS

Right.

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BLAGOJEVICH

That says to him, worst case scenario, I

can send me...

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HARRIS

Mm-hmm.

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BLAGOJEVICH

Right?
14

you know, ah, you

caucuses, and the
an impeachment,
do it, the
fucking stop me

HARRIS

Mm-hmm.
(PAUSE)

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BLAGOJEVICH

Golly. What's the Senate count in

Washington? What, what happened? How
many Republicans got beat?

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HARRIS

Um, I don't know, I think the last I saw

was 55.

BLAGOJEVICH

Ooh.

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HARRIS

That's, ah, I don't know how current

that is.

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BLAGOJEVICH

Okay.

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HARRIS

And I think Emil's caucus or the Senate

down here.

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BLAGOJEVICH

The same.

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HARRIS

Same.

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BLAGOJEVICH

I gotta play it to Emil too, don't I?

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HARRIS

Sure. Well no you simply say that Emil

tells me that you want him.

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BLAGOJEVICH

Obama wants him.

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HARRIS

Right.

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BLAGOJEVICH

U.N. ambassador, impossible, huh?

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HARRIS

Yeah, I'd put that in the ah, extremely

remote column.

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(PAUSE)
BLAGOJEVICH

(Sigh)
(PAUSE)
* * * * *

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