Heather Pentecost Comm 302 Dr. Chase May 5, 2014 A Soulfal Discussion [Enter Aatmaja, a Hindu priestess, and Plato, a Greek philosopher] ‘Aatmaja: Greetings, wise one. I am so pleased you could meet me here today. Plato: The pleasure is all mine, honored pujaree. I thought we might take a wall down by the river. The sun is especially scorching this afternoon, and I am not accustomed to its wrath. ‘Aatmaja: That would be wonderful. I know a beautiful spot along the banks, where the Banayans provide excellent shade, Was there something in particular on your mind you wished to discuss? Plat: here are several ideas rattling around at the moment, but most are inconsequential. The long travel to India has certainly not helped, but I am eager to share at least a few thoughts with you, and to get your perspective on them. Aatmaja: I would enjoy nothing more. Plato: Very well then, let us waste no more time with the formalities Vjsttion tradition, what is the perception of the soul? ‘Aatmajaz You hold nothing back! Do you truly want to know what the Hindus believe, or do you only wish to possess a scandalous story to report back to the Agora? Plato: Please trust, new friend, that there is nothing but curiosity in my heart. Does this mean, though, that you suspect your concept of the soul to be quite different than my own? CPO 2547Aatmaja: You do not yet know, but one of your own named Cicero will address this question for you: “quot homines, tot sententiae"! For just as the prints of our tongues are unique, I anticipate that our opinions (viJlaTs) ature die. ‘To what extent, I can not yet tell, Gurexperienverare as Gifferentus they Come, but I expect that we can find some similarities between our world views if we search deeply enough. Plato: I am intrigued. Do you then only feel comfortable speaking for your own personal perception of the soul, or would you be willing to shed some light on the beliefs of your countrymen as-well? ‘Aatmaja: I (uineeReint) not be capable of speaking on everyone’s behalf, as there are as many languages in our land as snakes in the rice paddies, However, I see this afore cnoughofe pursuit to-attempt After all, we have leamed our beliefs from somé place in our environment, and Mefociewy around ane seems as good a source as any, Plato: Excellent, then, let’s have it! What is your opinion on the soul? Is it natucally good, or bad? From whence does it draw its individuality? Does it live on past the body? Aatmaja: Well I say! These are quite different questions than you had first presented! I will do my best to address each of them. Plato: Please, make haste, dear friend, and hold nothing back! ‘Antmaja: Very well. What I can surmise from my colleagues is that general belief concerning the embodied soul that it watt asffrough four distinct life stages, and depending ‘on the conduct of the individual during those, it will be reincarnated into a new body Jf either a higher or lower caste. Does this please you as an initial response? wh Faceted Coit, pave Won be. ete eo ene wither eit eller - & vuPlato: Alas, it does. But, please, continue: what are these life stages, and what impact do they have on life as we live it? Aatmaja: At the most general and simple level, we live life as first a child, then a student (cither in school or under a master as an apprentice), as a spouse, and finally as a retired elder. The transition between these is sometimes smooth, sometimes abrupt. We are motivated to progress. through each of these because of the examples set before us. Plato: Interesting. Then what role do more minor life stages and changes play into the psyche of today’s Indian Hindi Aatmaj Each accomplishment, each change is welcomed as fate ordained by the gods. One’s reaction to such change, however, is indicative of their true nature, and thereby affects future changes in their life. Sometimes the gods will test us just to see what our sincere character is.! Woe to hint who fails to remain pure and faultless in this life! Plato: And what of words? Are we each responsible to keep our conversations pure, ot are theye mandated by the gods as well? | Aatmaja: You believe in the multiplicity of gods, yes? j Plato: Of course! The gods each have their domain, and can bless or curse us within them. | ‘Aatmaja: Then you will understand me when I say that one of our most powerful goddesses is Shiva, and her most iesistible and destructive weapon is Pasupatéstra, which can be discharged by the mind, eyes, words, or a bow. Since she often enacts destruction through her own words, we gain an example of how deadly they are. Therefore, we must also be careful with the words ‘we use, as they will become part of everyone’s consciousness. What is your opinion of this? ' Dubois and Beauchamp recount a story’ of goddesses testing an Indian king of his character on pg. 503. 7Plato: [ agree that words can bring ruin, when they are crafted and malicious, but I do not believe in this consciousness, or connectedness of everyone’s minds. The soul’s journey to enlightenment is marked by individual understanding, not by the addition of knowledge into some universal realm. A dialogue between two individuals, though, is the surest way to the enlightenment of the souls, Aatmaja: Ah that evasive enlightenment! Some are so blessed to have it, and to be that much closer to moksha and brahman-nirvana, that is, the experience of blissful egolessness! Plato: What do you mean by “egolessness”? Surely not that we lose our achievements or pride? Aatmaja: But yes! For what else is there to be gained in this world? Once a soul has achieved enough goodness, it is blessed with the retumn to the Brahman, the divine ground of existence! There is too much trouble in this current life that results from strife and jealousy; to be released from all of this anguish, ob, that is desirable. Plato: I see here another point upon which we can agree: the afterlife of the soul. I have just, finished a work that [ eall the Phaedo, or On the Soul. If you have the time, I would prefer you read it, rather than listen to me attempt to recall the details of it here. atmaja: I am sure that whatever you can remember will serve us well enough for this iscussion, Please, won’t you try? Plato: Only because you insist - I will see how much I can say here, though it will certainly not be as beautiful as itis there on paper, where I had many hours to craft it. Aatmaja: Thank you. I await your insight on this matter. Plato: The essential piece that we should discuss is that the soul is eternal, and will live on past the body’s death. For I am confident in the belief that there truly is such a thing as living again,5 and that the living spring from the dead, and that the souls of the dead are in existence, and that, & the good souls have a better portion than the evil? Does this cohere with your thinking, or are we as different as we first anticipated? Aatmaja: No, the parallels are quite evident to me. The soul és eternal and has been sent down to Earth from its original home with Shiva. Each birth of a child is therefore in reality the rebirth of a soul Plato: Very insightful, honored Aatmaja. Tell me, though, where souls come from. Were they created all together at the dawn of time? Or are there new souls being created even now? ‘Aatmaja: To answer these questions I must invoke a tale found in the Bhagavata: Vishnu the Supreme Being, (Who is ohe with Shiva), before creating anything which now exists, began by creating souls, which at first animated bodies of fantastic shapes. During their union with these bodies they either committed sin or practiced virtue. At the time of judgment, those which had been partly virtuous and partly sinful were sent to earth to animate new bodies until they beeame purely virtuous or purely sinful. Thus every new birth, whether happy or unhappy, is the result of deeds practiced in previous generations, and is either the reward or punishment for them. We may thus judge by the condition of a person in an existing generation what he has been and how he has acted in the previous one? Plato: That certainly is a distinet way to envision the lifespan of a soul, and the subsequent morality of each incarnation, Do continue: what happens to those souls which become purely virtuous or purely sinful? 2 Quote from Plato's Phaedo. pp 182. Oe. 3 Paraphrased from Dubois and Beauchamp pg. 556. eAatmaja: The destiny of the soul is either Swarga, the place of everlasting bliss, or Naraka, the place of insufferable pain and punishment, When we reach Swarga, we are back in the realm of Brahman, from whom we of the Brahmin caste derive our name, Do you have any understanding of the afterlife in your land? Plato: Many in Greece unfortunately do not recognize the eternality of the soul. A character in Euripedes’ Meleogros, for instance, states that "After death every man is earth and shadow: nothing goes to nothing” * Thankfully, though, there are some who share our wise perception of the soul. Pythagorus was one of the most esteemed, He held that souls are not only immortal but ‘eternal: that is to say, they existed before they entered the bodies of living creatures.$ I respect his teachings greatly, but must confess that I can not yet comprehend fully the idea of existing before a body. I believe that the soul, as well as its reality, exist prior to languag¢Saput lam perplexed at how it ean not have a form, Aatmaja: Are you really confused? Or do you only wish to see if T truly believe what I say, or if Tam willing to doubt alongside you? Regardless, perhaps it is not that the soul is formless, but instead that the souls altogether constitute the god Brahman, Plato: Our terminology is definitely different, but I find this to be congruent with the Truth I so desperately seek. How do you have knowledge of this Brahman, this unchanging reality amidst and beyond the world?" In my tradition, most eschew any talk of absolute truths, and keep spouting nonsense about constructing truths through language. How have you avoided this trap? 4 Bremmer, pg. 7. ° Paraphrased from Dubois and Beauchamp pg, 556 © Premise of Plato’s Phadrus. 7 Puligandla’s Fundamentals of indian Philosophy explains this concept wellAatmaja: It would be so nice to remember the past incarnations of our soul, would it not? Since ‘we can not, though, the Hindus avoid intemal conflict by relying on the words of our ancestors, as found in the Bhagavata, which I mentioned earlier in this conversation. We have covered a breadth of topies, haven't we! Plato: Indeed we have! It would be so wonderful to remember the Truth of our existence, though. I have just written a paper concerning the best candidate to rule aver society, and wit "\ it, The Republic, | explain the best path of life for man, Would you like to hear it now, before I introduce new concepts to deliberate? Aatmaja: That would be advantageous for us both. | Plato: Very well, My thoughts on this topic come from the myth of Er, a man who dies and is | / awarded the chance to observe how the gods enact judgment on mankind. He sees four pathways, in and out of the sky and earth, Eventually he and his companions cast lots to determine the order in which they will choose their next path, The prophet accompanying the ‘warns them to choose wisely and to live out the chosen life diligently. If they do, they will bé appointed a happy and not undesirable existence. Each deceased soul, like the group here, may select any number of future existences; for even the great Empedocles claimed that he “has already been a boy and a maiden, 2 bush and a bird, and a fish jumping up from the sea.”8 For ‘me, though, the most prudent decision would be to become a philosopher, as we thinkers have the greatest chance to remember the realm, the ‘Truth from whence we come. For the terrible river of Unmindfulness, whose water no vessel can hold, is otherwise our fate; of this we are all obliged to drink a certain quantity, and those who are not saved by wisdom drink more than, * Quoted in Brommer on pg. 14,us a Fe necessary; and each one as we drink forget all things.? Now forgive me of my rambling, kind sister, as I have become excited at the prospect of hearing what you have to say on this matter, Aatmaja: Your excitement suits you well. There is much wisdom in these stories. Give me a minute to collect my thoughts by this brook. Its cool waters will be as refreshing for my mind as, for my body. Plato: Very well. You certainly deserve your rest, Afterall, this dialogue has been as rigorous as what I like to call dialectic, which brings the soul closer to this Truth we have been discussing, ‘Aatmaja: It seems my time for rejuvenation is over even as it has yet begun - I feel that you are especially eager to get my input on this issue, so let us not lose any more time. I would first like hear more about this dialectic. Is it as simple as a dialogue? Must it be enacted between two ‘equals? And what of Er? What was his fate, and how did you receive his tale? Plato: The water has accomplished its purpose! These are all good questions, which should hopefully facilitate good answers! The fate of Er is the simpler, though, so I shall finish that story first. The river of Unmindfulness, Lethe, which leaves each soul unaware of its past, was not forced upon Er, so when he awoke back on Earth on his funeral pyre, he was able to recollect his journey to the divine afterlife. That is how we could hear this remarkable vision of our fate. Now for the dialectic, this is the most precious of tools. Much weightier than any rhetorical trick or trap, this meaningful conversation brings both interlocutors ever closer (o glimpsing the guiding ‘Truth, It is the domain of the philosophers, and if these meetings continue favorably, perhaps of the Brahmin priests as well. © Quotes fiom Plato's The Republic, Book X,Aatmaja: Thank you for your high esteem - it is duly noted. Would you like to know more about our caste and our responsibilities before you include us in this that you seem to prize? Plato: I have been impressed thus far with your handling of such complex issues, but yes, a brief summary of your tasks would suffice. Aatmaja: Like most priests, we handle sacrifices and worship services of the gods, but it is also one of the special duties of the Brahman to be well versed, at an early age, in the customs and practices regulating our important branch of Hindu law. Plato: What are some of these Jaws? And how carefully are they adhered to? Aatmaja: For the Hindu, laws regarding cleanliness are the most important. However, these values are not achievable for many in lower, working castes because of their living conditions and ultimately because of their impure souls. This is part of what keeps them perpetually in their disgraceful state, For the Brahmin, though, purity laws are paramount. We take tremendous care to prevent any sort of defilement, Aside from our noble birth and our interaction with the gods, this is is what gives us our ascendency over other castes. Plato: Does this cleanness involve only the body, or the soul as well? Aatmaja: The rules concerning the body are strict, for certain, and the measures against the impurity of the soul are likewise harsh, The maintenance of one’s character is just as important as the protection against Klesd, However, the only real defilement of the soul proceeds from sin, which is caused by perversity of the will, One Hindu poet, Vemana, expresses himself thus on this subject: “It is water which causes mud, and it is water which removes it. It is your will that makes you commit sin, and it is by your will alone that you can be purified.” This doctrine, "© Dubois and Beauchamp pg. 178,Naa lk Yor though imperfectly carried out in practice, demonstrates that pardon and the purification of the soul can be obtained only by an effort of the will and by a renunciation of sin,"! Lam also persuaded that a man can not acquire wisdom, and the happiness which results from it, except by subduing the passions.!? Plato: [ also find that the sins of unrighteousness, intemperance, cowardice, and ignorance comupt the soul.!? Passion is the worst form of these when it clouds the judgment of a typically wise person. That is why I prescribed non-tomantic relationships in my Phaedrus, so that we may use our bodies as they were intended without being consumed by emotion. The soul thus remains blameless, as it does not stain itself with impure thoughts or cravings. It is merely satisfying its bodily needs, ‘Aatmaja: | am afraid that I can not concur with the direction of your last train of thought; since the Brahmins require sexual purity unconditionally. This, and the eschewing of intoxicating drink, are vital to the maintenance of our souls. The three forms of purity are of mind, speech, and body, and we must keep our minds pure by keeping our bodies pure. King Priyadarshi, in the inscriptions of Ashoka, tells us to consider moral conquest, that is, dharma-vijaya, the most important conquest: “For this alone is good, here and hereafter.” The “hereafter” he mentions is ‘What is most important to me, for my actions now reflect on my condition in the future, Plato: We rightly return to the matter of the soul, then, as the twilight approaches. Perhaps itis, thus time to conclude our discussion, Or was there something more you wished to ponder over? 11 Dubois and Beauchamp pg. 195. pg, 508, " Bremmer pg. 7. ™ Kennedy pg. 187u Aatmaja: | am still curious about your perception of the soul. For we have established that we both believe that our souls are eternal, and that we therefore have a responsibility and an impetus to keep our minds and bodies pure. But what of this rhetoric you had mentioned? Why do you seem to despise it so vehemently? Plato: Rhetoric is not always evil, as we philosophers must use it to effectively enlighten the masses who do not have the capability of dialectic at their disposal. Ultimately, though, i isa base and deceitful craft that should not be considered as pure and life-giving as dialectical dialogue. What is your experience with rhetoric, with persuasion? Aatmaja: I haye not been faced with too much trouble concerning persuasion, as most people in India know their place and what is expected of them, and so do not need to be compelled to do to raise their status.!§ Rhetoric would not be useful for them. I therefore consider Rhetoric in so, Since they are in their caste because of their past lives, there is no reason to protest it or seek. Ay terms of our poetry and stories, some of which I have cited for you this day. Any persuasion within these tales would be necessarily in the form of allegory, which nearly every caste can understand. Plato: Spoken like a true rhetorician! The tool does not seem to be one, so long as itis necessary. Do I dare tell you, Aatmaja, that the similes and metaphors you reference are techniques that we labor over in Greeee, in order to deliver the most understandable message? I daresay that you do have experience with persuasion, and more likely on a daily basis too! Even the way in which you have been deseribing reincarnation, and the incontestability of each caste, seems to have “ compelling intent. fire Atl? ah "5 Kennedy pg, 175 atath P__ nora12 Aatmaja: Well! I was certainly not expecting to be exposed in that way! The tenets of reincamation have been established for centuries, and I merely communicate them on to the next generation of believers, Now that you bring it into the light, though, I suppose I do recognize how persuasive my intent can be when I feel compelled to pick just the right allegory for my message or sermon. Plato: I meant no disrespect, but only desired to point out that the excellence or beauty or truth of every structure, animate or inanimate, and of every action of man, is relative to the use for which nature or the artist has intended them. '6 Aatmaja: Though harsh, that is beautifully stated. I am thankful, then, that we each have a Truth, a Brahman, to grasp onto for consistency. How hopeless etemity must seem to those who have no conception of the continuance of their soul! Plato: Indeed! And yet, there is no means through which to communicate this Truth to them, if they will not listen and engage for themselves! You are so lucky to have a theology that involves the afterlife, and to be in a position of power to instill such belief in your people. When my great teacher Socrates attempted to do just this in Greece, he was sentenced to death for corrupting the youth! The tolerance of Hinduism and its adherence to the reincamation of souls are to be greatly respected, even if we disagree on the degree of cleanliness those souls require. Aatmaja: Since you bring that up again, I meant to ask you if there was anything like meditation or yoga for the Greeks? Along with fasting, we lize these techniques here to bring us in touch with the spiritual. Tuning in to the world around us is one way to eam salvation from the gods, as is the improvement of our virtue. 1 Plato The Republic, Book X.Plat T'm afraid we do not have any tactics like that, especially since the gods seem fairly distant at most times. Gymnastics, which train the body, are essential to well-being, but can not gain someone a higher standing in the next life, I firmly believe that only dialectic can do this. Through this careful and sincere dialogue, each soul comes closer to remembering the divine Truth, and therefore becomes + about which path to choose next, as in the story of Er. Aatmaja: Ah, we have completed the circle of our thought just as we have reached the shore. It must be time for us to retum to our respective places; you to your land of constructed truths and distant gods, and me to mine of the eternal cleansing of souls Plats his time has been wonderful to attempt to understand the worldview of one another, even when they seem to be worlds apart. No matter the manifestations, though, in color or tongue or fashion, we are al humans, seeking to live a life worthy of the gods. You and I, though, it would seem, camry considerable responsibility in the fostering of the minds which have been entrusted to us. We each have a role to play in helping others recall their immortal history, and (o live rightly for their eternal future. Aatmaja: Attempt for me, though, to reconsider the morals you hold, and whether or not they are truly honorable to your soul. I will do the same, and seek out the wise council of the Brahamans and of the gods and goddesses. |. It truly has been a pleasure foraging your country and your mind, May you keep testing your thoughts and words to see if they are congruous with the eternal Knowledge and ‘Truth. My final counsel is that we hold fast ever to the heavenly way and follow after justice and14 virtue always, considering that the soul is immortal and able to endure every sort of good and every sort of evil.!7 Farewell, venerable Aatmaja. Aatmaja: The same to you, honored Plato. If we do not see each other again in this life, I look forward to our encounters in our lives to come. [Plato and Aatmaja separate. The sun sets over the ocean.] sae i ae ” may — Bue approach A Raeonelig, — very Hadid (itive uae 7d — Bull mere copies ll bot Nhe fem, whem posses — tm te YY a ee a Lufeble_ ph fie PD 7 Sy FO dts ba aud! realte : Th. (s bof dhiney his ween 977 rhb "Plato, The Republic, Book X. — al rit (le 9 pada pnbWorks Cited Bremmer, Jan. The Rise and Fall of the Afterlife. London: Routledge, 2001. Print. Dubois, JA, and Henry K. Beauchamp. Hindu Manners, Customs = Oxford: “a Clarendon Dre og a poo a mek ot Gow - Pd Kennedy, George A. "Rhetoric in Ancient India." = Rhetoric: An|tlistorical or el Cross-cultural Introduction. New York: Oxford UP, 1998. 171-89, Print og Plato. The Apology, Phedo and Crito, Trans, Benjamin Jowett. Vol. m, Part 1. The Harvard 75) Classics. New York: PE. Collier & Son, 1909-14; arteyom, 2001, Plato. "Book X." Plato: The Republic. Trans. Benjamin me Norwalk, CT: Easton, 1980. Print. Plato, "Phaedrus." The Rhetorical Tradition: Reagiings from Classical times to the Present. Comp, Patricia Bizzell and Bruce pte, 2nd ed. Boston: Bedford of St, Martin's, 2000. Print. ve Puligandla, Ramakrishna. Pingin intals of Indian Philosophy, New Delhi: D.K. Printworld Ltd.