Professional Documents
Culture Documents
TH
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2963
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vs.
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Court Reporter:
IEN
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FR
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Phoenix, Arizona
October 13, 2015
9:03 a.m.
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No. CV 07-2513-PHX-GMS
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Gary Moll
401 W. Washington Street, SPC #38
Phoenix, Arizona 85003
(602) 322-7263
A P P E A R A N C E S
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DS
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FR
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2964
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A P P E A R A N C E S
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2965
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I N D E X
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Witness:
DAVID TENNYSON
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No.
2001
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2760
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2893
2894
IEN
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2843
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FR
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Description
Admitted
3169
3194
2983
2970
2977
DS
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3141
E X H I B I T S
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2969
2997
3104
3118
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Page
STEVE BAILY
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2966
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P R O C E E D I N G S
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THE COURT:
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MS. WANG:
MR. YOUNG:
Cecillia Wang
MR. POCHODA:
Stanley Young
Good morning.
MR. KILLEBREW:
Good morning.
United States.
THE COURT:
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Good morning.
MR. MASTERSON:
John Masterson,
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THE COURT:
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MR. WALKER:
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THE COURT:
DS
IEN
Richard Walker
09:04:30
Good morning.
MR. McDONALD:
Mel McDonald
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THE COURT:
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MR. COMO:
FR
09:04:16
Good morning.
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09:04:07
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09:03:54
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I'm sorry.
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Please be seated.
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Thank you.
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Good morning.
Good morning, Your Honor.
Greg Como of
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MS. CAGE:
Good morning.
Marilyn Cage of
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THE COURT:
Good morning.
MS. IAFRATE:
Michele
contemnors.
THE COURT:
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Good morning.
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09:05:00
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THE COURT:
Good morning.
All right.
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this morning.
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it, so I figured I'll try and read through it during break and
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DS
All right.
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FR
Unless there's
IEN
22
09:05:18
THE WITNESS:
Thank you.
DAVID TENNYSON,
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BY MR. SEGURA:
Q.
A.
Good morning.
Q.
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A.
That's correct.
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Q.
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interview?
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A.
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Q.
Of 2014?
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A.
'14, yes.
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Q.
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evidence.
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A.
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FR
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09:06:25
09:07:12
Yes, it is.
IEN
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09:06:06
DS
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2969
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MR. SEGURA:
Exhibit 2893.
MR. MASTERSON:
Objection, hearsay.
09:07:27
2970
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THE COURT:
Overruled.
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BY MR. SEGURA:
Q.
this exhibit.
A.
I do.
Q.
A.
Q.
Okay.
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A.
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Q.
15
Is that the
09:07:54
Okay.
THE COURT:
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I assume it
MR. SEGURA:
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09:08:19
You may.
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BY MR. SEGURA:
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Q.
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discussing how she was demoted because she did not divulge her
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A.
DS
09:08:43
IEN
I do.
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Q.
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FR
09:07:40
Okay.
09:09:00
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A.
I do.
Q.
And she was -- if you flip to the next page, she was
A.
Yes.
Q.
Okay.
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reaction was:
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about.
09:09:36
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A.
I do.
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Q.
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A.
No, I didn't.
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Q.
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A.
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that.
IEN
DS
That would be an
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09:10:07
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Q.
Okay.
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A.
FR
09:09:14
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Q.
A.
I'm not.
Q.
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A.
I do.
Q.
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A.
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PD.
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Q.
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A.
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messages.
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effect, yes.
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Q.
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A.
Okay.
09:11:16
09:11:40
IEN
DS
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Q.
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says:
FR
09:10:39
09:12:10
09:12:32
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between August 10th and August 11th was my final F' you text to
(Brian)."
a copy of it."
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A.
I do.
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Q.
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09:12:59
MR. MASTERSON:
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THE COURT:
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Objection, foundation.
Sustained.
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BY MR. SEGURA:
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Q.
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A.
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IEN
DS
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FR
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09:12:46
09:13:33
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don't recall how Cathy got the -- according to Mary Ann, how
Q.
I do recall that.
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THE COURT:
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Objection, relevance.
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Mr. Montgomery.
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she describes --
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MR. SEGURA:
THE WITNESS:
Okay.
The way I recall it was those text
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trying to say.
FR
25
09:15:27
IEN
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All right.
DS
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09:15:07
THE COURT:
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09:14:46
MR. SEGURA:
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09:14:26
09:15:45
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about it, was that could have been a reason why he was looking
BY MR. SEGURA:
Q.
A.
Q.
Mr. Mackiewicz on Monday and he came into the office, and last
That's my recollection.
Did you ever look into this issue of text messages, and
09:15:59
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A.
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Q.
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A.
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Yes.
MR. SEGURA:
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09:16:21
Okay.
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THE COURT:
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FR
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Could
Any objection?
MR. MASTERSON:
IEN
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THE COURT:
DS
20
09:16:34
09:16:54
basis of relevance.
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guilty of anything.
THE COURT:
speaking objections.
09:17:25
MR. MASTERSON:
THE COURT:
Okay.
MR. MASTERSON:
THE COURT:
403.
of this exhibit?
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foundation.
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THE COURT:
MR. SEGURA:
Exhibit 2894.
DS
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BY MR. SEGURA:
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Q.
09:18:20
IEN
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A.
Yes.
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Q.
FR
09:17:49
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09:17:34
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MR. MASTERSON:
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I don't know --
And hearsay.
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Relevance.
09:18:27
A.
Yes, it is.
MR. SEGURA:
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Exhibit 2894.
MR. MASTERSON:
THE COURT:
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objection?
MR. SEGURA:
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the principal.
THE COURT:
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MR. MASTERSON:
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MR. SEGURA:
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THE COURT:
2894?
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MR. SEGURA:
Yes.
FR
The
IEN
22
All right.
09:19:11
objection is overruled.
DS
20
09:18:59
15
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09:18:45
09:19:37
I didn't catch, is
Exhibit 2894.
09:19:46
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MR. MASTERSON:
Thank you.
BY MR. SEGURA:
Q.
A.
That's correct.
Q.
Okay.
A.
That's correct.
Q.
Okay.
09:19:58
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A.
He called me.
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Q.
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of your investigation?
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A.
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Q.
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A.
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committed.
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it.
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Q.
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A.
He called me.
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Q.
And when you were discussing this with him, it was from
09:20:18
IEN
DS
friend to friend?
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A.
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FR
23
Yeah.
09:20:31
09:20:48
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you listen to the rest of that tape, you'll see that he did the
Q.
Okay.
MR. SEGURA:
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BY MR. SEGURA:
Q.
A.
09:22:53
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Q.
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evidence.
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correct?
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A.
That's correct.
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Q.
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A.
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with PSB.
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Q.
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A.
I did.
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Q.
09:24:19
DS
IEN
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memorandum?
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A.
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well as transcripts.
FR
09:23:02
09:24:28
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Q.
A.
Yes, it was.
Q.
Okay.
A.
So to speak.
Q.
A.
09:24:54
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Q.
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A.
Yes.
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Q.
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A.
No.
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Q.
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A.
No.
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Q.
DS
IEN
it says:
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FR
09:25:37
Ms. McKessy is
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09:25:12
09:26:00
09:26:20
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A.
I do.
Q.
Ms. Johnson?
A.
Q.
Okay.
A.
Q.
A.
10
particular time, I did not see that a crime had been committed,
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no.
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Q.
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A.
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Q.
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interviewed Ms. McKessy and Ms. Johnson drafted this memo, you
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A.
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Lieutenant Seagraves.
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Q.
09:26:45
However, in order to
09:27:01
DS
09:27:20
IEN
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A.
Yes.
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Q.
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FR
09:26:27
09:27:35
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A.
I don't recall.
Q.
Okay.
correct?
A.
Q.
memorandum, correct?
A.
Pardon me?
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Q.
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A.
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Q.
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A.
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Q.
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A.
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Q.
DS
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IEN
Okay.
09:28:15
09:28:26
09:28:51
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evidence.
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FR
09:27:57
09:29:29
A.
3
4
2983
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Exhibit 2843.
MR. MASTERSON:
THE COURT:
Overruled.
09:29:46
7
8
BY MR. SEGURA:
Q.
10
A.
I do.
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Q.
12
A.
Yes.
13
Q.
Does that suggest that that's the date on which this e-mail
14
was sent?
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A.
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Q.
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A.
Yes.
09:30:09
There
09:30:30
IEN
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Q.
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correct?
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A.
FR
09:30:01
DS
Okay.
Okay.
I discussed.
09:30:45
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Q.
A.
Yes.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
She didn't.
Q.
A.
No.
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Q.
11
12
A.
I'm sorry.
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Q.
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issue, correct?
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A.
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Q.
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Sheridan?
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A.
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DS
IEN
09:31:09
09:31:29
09:32:21
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Q.
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FR
09:31:02
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employment?
A.
Q.
A.
I can't say.
Q.
A.
Q.
10
A.
11
12
Q.
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A.
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recall that.
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Q.
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issue, correct?
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A.
Yes.
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Q.
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A.
2842?
Okay.
IEN
09:33:47
09:34:09
09:34:37
DS
Okay.
Q.
Yes.
24
A.
FR
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25
09:33:19
MR. SEGURA:
09:36:10
THE CLERK:
(Handing).
THE WITNESS:
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Thank you.
BY MR. SEGURA:
Q.
correct?
A.
Yes.
Q.
Okay.
09:36:18
10
A.
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12
13
Q.
14
A.
No.
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Q.
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A.
No.
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Q.
Okay.
19
correct?
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A.
21
recall discussing with him the fact that I had been interviewed
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24
FR
25
DS
Q.
09:36:50
IEN
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09:36:30
Okay.
I do
09:37:13
Seattle case"?
09:37:44
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A.
I do.
Q.
Okay.
was.
know, obviously, I'm gonna speak frank with you 'cause I can
trust you."
So it says:
You know, um, I believe that and, and I'm just gonna you
09:37:55
when I got back and I sat in your when I sat in Bailey's office
and you, you, Bailey and Zebro were there, I was under the
10
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12
A.
I do.
14
Q.
15
you had with Captain Bailey and Dave Zebro the Monday after you
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A.
Yes.
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Q.
19
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A.
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DS
13
IEN
09:38:18
09:38:33
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Q.
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A.
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FR
09:38:07
09:38:50
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Q.
Okay.
3
4
A.
Q.
Montgomery investigation?
A.
09:39:04
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11
Q.
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13
A.
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No.
DS
20
09:39:23
22
IEN
21
sole purpose was to figure out why I would have audiotaped that
24
conversation.
25
for a reason, and the monitors were quite angry with me because
FR
23
09:39:42
09:40:00
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3
4
And then I
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Q.
12
obviously, the Sheriff wanted to find out who the snitch was,"
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correct?
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A.
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Q.
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correct?
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A.
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discussed.
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21
Q.
22
09:40:56
09:41:17
DS
09:41:30
IEN
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A.
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FR
09:40:38
Absolutely.
09:41:46
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interview.
me, remember why that second phone call was placed, the one
Q.
A.
So yes, I
And you were excited because you were able to confirm that
Yes.
10
spoke at length.
11
12
13
Q.
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15
A.
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17
18
Q.
19
that you investigated the case, and that you had closed it out?
20
A.
Yes, he did.
21
Q.
Okay.
22
and next thing you know, I'm gettin' a call from Jerry."
09:42:24
To me, we kind of
09:42:41
IEN
DS
23
09:43:27
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A.
I do.
25
Q.
FR
09:42:06
09:43:37
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Sheridan?
A.
Yes.
Q.
He says, "You go ahead and close it out and next thing you
know, I'm gettin' a call from Jerry saying hey, you know what?
And
8
9
A.
I do.
10
Q.
11
12
13
A.
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Q.
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I do not know.
DS
MR. MASTERSON:
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THE COURT:
BY MR. SEGURA:
25
Q.
FR
24
09:44:13
I don't know
09:44:33
IEN
22
09:44:01
09:44:54
Objection, argumentative.
09:45:08
said here?
A.
No.
THE COURT:
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You may.
(Pause in proceedings.)
09:45:31
BY MR. SEGURA:
Q.
10
that correct?
11
A.
He did.
12
Q.
13
allegations, correct?
14
A.
I'm sorry.
15
Q.
Sure.
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17
18
A.
09:45:59
09:46:13
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20
21
22
IEN
DS
09:46:34
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25
FR
He
He knew
So he
09:47:03
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He --
he knew.
Q.
Zebro informed him that Ms. McKessy had, in fact, come in for
A.
recall that.
as to why her name came up or why that was divulged, but he did
And so you in this meeting, you and Captain Bailey and Dave
Yes.
10
11
Q.
12
correct?
13
A.
14
Q.
15
A.
16
17
Q.
Okay.
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DS
09:48:28
I do.
IEN
A.
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Q.
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25
A.
FR
09:47:48
19
22
09:47:40
18
21
09:47:19
Yes.
09:48:39
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Q.
Okay.
A.
Q.
"You know what whatever if Brian was cheating on you then, you
09:49:00
But
10
A.
Yes, I do.
11
Q.
12
13
A.
14
wasn't relevant.
15
Q.
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17
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A.
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Q.
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transcript.
It was -- to me it
Okay.
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24
FR
25
09:49:39
09:50:12
IEN
22
DS
21
09:49:21
"Do
09:50:57
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A.
I do.
Q.
this.
I don't know.
They're friends.
It says
I don't know."
4
5
A.
I do.
Q.
deposition?
A.
they are.
09:51:09
Oh, yes.
10
Q.
11
12
A.
I'm sure
I don't know.
MR. MASTERSON:
13
THE COURT:
14
Objection, foundation.
THE WITNESS:
15
Overruled.
I don't know.
16
BY MR. SEGURA:
17
Q.
18
19
allegations?
20
A.
21
Q.
22
criminally?
09:51:34
IEN
DS
23
A.
No, I don't.
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Q.
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FR
09:51:21
09:51:44
09:52:06
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A.
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6
Q.
Okay.
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A.
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12
Q.
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A.
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17
Q.
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criminal investigations?
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A.
By name, no.
20
Q.
21
A.
22
09:52:49
09:53:18
No.
IEN
DS
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24
Q.
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investigations?
FR
09:52:26
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A.
They are.
Q.
investigations, correct?
A.
Q.
Okay.
investigations, correct?
A.
Criminal internal?
MR. SEGURA:
THE COURT:
10
Correct.
No further questions.
Cross-examination.
09:54:13
CROSS-EXAMINATION
11
BY MR. MASTERSON:
13
Q.
14
A.
Good morning.
15
Q.
16
Sheriff's Office?
17
A.
18
Q.
What is that?
19
A.
20
21
22
IEN
DS
12
23
Q.
24
Internal Oversight?
25
A.
FR
09:53:55
09:54:46
09:54:59
Yes, sir.
09:55:19
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1
2
that the elements of the crime and the probable cause, should
Q.
09:55:38
10
A.
11
in the reports.
12
only with the law, but with Melendres, obviously, and to make
13
14
15
16
17
Q.
18
19
A.
Yes, sir.
20
Q.
21
A.
We are -- and again, I'm new to the BIO unit, but we are
22
Just a bunch
09:56:17
IEN
DS
09:56:28
23
24
25
FR
09:55:54
09:56:53
OF
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forth.
Q.
auditing training?
A.
training.
We
10
11
12
Q.
13
14
15
16
A.
17
that as well, ensure that all the deputies are up to date with
18
19
Court, yes.
20
Q.
21
A.
No, sir.
22
Q.
Okay.
09:57:40
09:58:00
IEN
DS
09:58:15
23
24
Sheriff's Office?
25
A.
FR
09:57:18
09:58:26
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detention academy.
years, and when the hiring freeze was lifted I went to the
Q.
Okay.
THE COURT:
8
9
10
Sorry.
12
2003?
THE COURT:
15
Sorry, Judge.
Yes, sir.
16
then I'll let Mr. Masterson ask his next question, because I
17
18
THE COURT:
21
BY MR. MASTERSON:
22
Q.
09:59:07
IEN
Okay.
Okay.
Thank you.
09:59:20
23
24
A.
Yes, sir.
25
Q.
FR
And
DS
20
09:58:57
THE WITNESS:
14
19
09:58:48
11
13
THE WITNESS:
THE COURT:
09:59:28
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A.
Q.
Where's District 2?
A.
Q.
around by yourself?
A.
10
11
12
13
Creek/Carefree.
14
15
ride with another deputy, and then eventually you drive and
16
17
Q.
Is the other deputy that you ride with, is that the FTO?
18
A.
Yes.
19
Q.
20
A.
21
Q.
22
A.
10:00:03
It's
IEN
DS
23
24
Q.
25
FR
09:59:41
Okay.
10:00:21
10:00:35
OF
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every year?
A.
Yes.
Q.
A.
maintain compliance.
I don't
10
Q.
11
A.
Yes.
12
Q.
13
A.
Yes.
14
Q.
Okay.
15
16
A.
17
Q.
All right.
18
deputy?
19
A.
20
Q.
21
A.
Yes.
22
Q.
DS
IEN
10:01:17
Is
10:01:31
23
A.
24
District 2 detectives.
25
Q.
FR
10:01:03
10:01:37
Okay.
10:01:52
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A.
assaults, ag assaults.
Q.
different division?
10
A.
11
12
Q.
13
14
A.
Yes.
15
Q.
Robberies?
16
A.
Yes.
17
Q.
Sexual assault?
18
A.
Yes.
19
20
Q.
21
District 2?
22
A.
10:02:24
DS
Okay.
10:02:37
10:02:49
IEN
23
Q.
24
A.
25
Division.
FR
10:02:12
10:03:00
OF
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Q.
A.
Q.
We were
10
A.
One year.
11
Q.
12
A.
13
Q.
14
15
A.
Yes.
16
Q.
Okay.
17
A.
18
Q.
19
A.
20
Q.
21
A.
It is.
22
Q.
Okay.
10:03:46
Are we
2008-2009, possibly.
DS
IEN
10:03:59
10:04:16
23
A.
24
25
Q.
FR
10:03:23
10:04:31
OF
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2
3
investigations?
A.
one division.
10:04:48
10
11
12
Q.
13
14
A.
15
Q.
All right.
16
17
first go-round?
18
A.
19
think.
20
Q.
21
22
A.
10:05:30
DS
So -- okay.
So if you started in
10:05:47
IEN
23
24
25
Q.
FR
10:05:10
All right.
10:06:08
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A.
well.
well.
Q.
A.
Actually, no.
detention.
They do both.
10
Q.
11
there?
12
13
A.
14
and a sergeant.
15
16
17
the criminal side, but they did intel work within the jails, so
18
19
Q.
20
you would have detention officers working with you in the jails
21
22
A.
10:06:37
10:06:53
DS
10:07:21
IEN
23
24
25
FR
10:06:26
These
10:07:42
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sort of thing.
Q.
in criminal IA, did you say it was you, another detective, and
then a supervisor?
A.
A sergeant, yes.
Q.
A sergeant.
10
A.
No.
11
Q.
12
in criminal investigations?
13
A.
Yes.
14
Q.
Tell me, I know it was a long time ago, but tell me as much
15
16
A.
17
18
19
courses that I'd gone through over the course of time that I've
20
21
Q.
22
10:08:11
10:08:34
DS
10:08:54
IEN
23
A.
24
held within the office, one of the locations within the office
25
FR
10:08:00
10:09:08
OF
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places.
Q.
A.
Q.
Okay.
10
A.
11
12
13
14
Q.
15
A.
Yes.
16
Q.
17
18
19
A.
20
21
22
I do.
I'm not
10:10:01
DS
IEN
10:09:40
I think that
I mean,
10:10:19
23
24
goes, sure.
25
Q.
FR
10:09:20
10:10:35
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entire time you were at IA back from 2008 or 2009 on up for the
A.
Q.
A.
I do.
10
Q.
11
12
A.
That is accurate.
13
Q.
14
A.
15
16
17
Q.
18
A.
19
so --
20
Q.
21
2014.
22
A.
10:11:14
10:11:32
10:11:52
IEN
Yes.
23
Q.
24
25
A.
FR
10:10:57
2015?
DS
Okay.
I mean, I can't be
10:12:03
OF
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Q.
Jail crimes?
A.
Q.
A.
thing.
Q.
A.
10
11
Q.
12
13
A.
14
15
16
Q.
17
18
interview people?
19
A.
Yes.
20
Q.
21
22
Okay.
10:12:33
10:12:51
IEN
DS
23
A.
24
25
FR
10:12:13
10:13:04
10:13:23
OF
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Q.
me?
A.
Q.
10:13:41
Okay.
10
A.
11
Q.
12
A.
Yes.
13
Q.
14
15
A.
16
17
18
Q.
19
20
21
she, a deputy chief on TV, and she always gets these guys to
22
confess.
Yes.
IEN
23
10:14:31
24
style.
25
FR
10:14:11
DS
Okay.
10:13:57
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A.
Q.
that works.
A.
I mean, I've seen the guys banging the tables, and then
Tell me how
10
11
12
13
14
works.
15
16
17
Q.
18
A.
19
to.
20
interest.
21
22
10:15:47
DS
IEN
10:15:21
10:16:04
23
what we do.
24
Q.
25
FR
10:15:05
How long
10:16:34
OF
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in general investigations?
A.
Q.
A.
10
11
12
January of '14.
13
Q.
14
A.
15
Q.
16
were still a detective when you made the move from District 2
17
18
19
A.
20
21
22
Q.
10:17:30
Or did you go to
DS
Okay.
10:17:49
24
25
FR
10:17:19
IEN
23
10:16:57
10:18:10
OF
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Internal Affairs?
assigned?
A.
Q.
It's an
It's a
10
A.
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
Q.
20
A.
Absolutely.
21
Q.
22
A.
I can tell you that I have -- I've handcuffed guys who have
10:19:22
10:19:36
DS
IEN
10:19:00
Is it a
23
24
25
FR
10:18:24
Fortunately, it
10:19:57
OF
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Q.
A.
It's horrible.
Q.
A.
Q.
prosecuted, or you just turn over what you have to the county
10:20:11
Do you make a
10
attorney and then the county attorney does whatever with it?
11
A.
12
13
enough to prosecute.
14
15
16
Q.
17
18
19
A.
Okay.
20
Q.
21
All right?
10:21:00
Now, at the time you turn it over to the county attorney -Let's assume you've decided there's
DS
Okay?
23
24
A.
25
FR
10:21:14
IEN
22
10:20:34
OF
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so forth.
3
4
arrest.
10
Q.
11
you send it over there and they tell you not enough?
12
13
A.
14
15
16
stumped.
Do they
10:22:20
18
19
profile.
20
21
22
IEN
DS
23
24
work there.
FR
10:22:03
17
25
10:21:47
10:22:33
They didn't
10:22:50
OF
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I didn't
5
6
attorney.
and they can make the determination whether to turn the case
10
11
12
13
14
Simple as that.
15
happened.
16
17
the report.
18
Q.
19
20
21
22
IEN
23
10:23:46
My question is:
10:24:06
Is it
24
25
turn over the facts of your investigation and let the county
FR
10:23:29
That's what
DS
Okay.
10:23:10
10:24:24
OF
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2
3
A.
county attorney.
It's just a
10
and the details of the case, just like they would any other
11
12
13
14
15
16
Q.
17
18
19
A.
20
Q.
21
22
handcuffs?
10:24:58
We
10:25:17
IEN
DS
10:25:31
23
A.
24
Q.
Okay.
25
FR
10:24:44
OF
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A.
Q.
Okay.
A.
Q.
All right.
people in handcuffs that have been in your house and held your
kid?
A.
Yes.
10
Q.
11
A.
Yes.
12
Q.
13
A.
14
15
Q.
16
17
Okay.
10:25:58
18
20
21
employee of MCSO.
22
A.
DS
10:27:00
IEN
Yes.
23
Q.
24
25
A.
FR
10:26:23
You've made a
19
Okay?
10:26:11
10:27:18
OF
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Q.
A.
Chief Sheridan.
Q.
A.
Okay.
That's what
10
11
12
Q.
Okay.
13
A.
Yes.
14
Q.
15
A.
Yes, sir.
16
Q.
17
18
A.
19
20
Q.
21
22
A.
10:28:12
DS
10:28:30
He's married
Is it Chief
10:28:51
IEN
23
Q.
Okay.
24
A.
25
Q.
FR
10:27:52
10:29:02
OF
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A.
5
6
Butts.
10
12
same process.
13
make some extra money, he asked if he could just forego the day
14
of work during the week and then come in on the weekend and do
15
his typing.
16
a Sunday.
17
fine.
10:30:12
18
20
do your reports.
21
22
Chris.
IEN
DS
19
10:30:27
23
I asked him if, well, Chris was here, he was in doing his
24
FR
10:29:47
11
25
10:29:22
I don't know.
10:30:44
OF
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checked his time sheet and he had logged in for, I want to say,
to make sure the guys are doing what they should be doing.
Again, my responsibility is
6
7
work.
10
10:31:30
11
12
found that he was overextended with his time off, with his sick
13
time, with his vacation time, and he simply just called from
14
15
16
him.
17
Q.
18
A.
No.
19
Q.
20
decision?
21
A.
No.
22
Q.
All right.
So as a result, I fired
10:31:53
IEN
DS
He was fired.
10:32:12
23
24
that right?
25
A.
FR
10:31:06
10:32:41
OF
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Q.
A.
Yes.
Q.
A.
That's correct.
Q.
Okay.
THE COURT:
10:32:56
THE COURT:
10
All right.
(Recess taken.)
11
THE COURT:
12
Thank you.
Please be seated.
13
BY MR. MASTERSON:
14
Q.
Okay.
15
A.
Thanks.
16
Q.
10:53:41
17
PSB?
19
A.
Yes, I did.
20
Q.
21
A.
22
IEN
DS
18
23
24
25
yes.
FR
10:33:07
10:53:54
10:54:16
OF
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Q.
A.
Yes.
Q.
A.
months on as a sergeant.
Q.
A.
10
Open-minded.
11
leg up on many of the guys who had just been promoted, newly
12
13
14
thing, the new procedures, the new policies, and things that
15
16
17
Q.
18
10:54:46
10:55:07
19
20
back to PSB?
21
A.
22
DS
10:55:22
IEN
23
24
25
FR
10:54:28
10:55:39
OF
TH
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Q.
A.
Q.
to law enforcement?
A.
Q.
Why?
10:55:57
10
11
is.
12
13
Internal Affairs.
14
Q.
15
important than -- well, when you were a detective and you were
16
17
you told me, sex crimes to some extent, do you feel Internal
18
19
investigations?
20
A.
21
Q.
Why not?
22
A.
And I
IEN
DS
23
24
25
FR
10:56:14
10:56:39
10:56:57
OF
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Q.
we're talking about now when you went back, or did I get my
dates goofed --
A.
June.
Q.
-- up again?
A.
June.
Q.
A.
Yes, sir.
Q.
10
A.
That's correct.
11
Q.
12
going on?
13
A.
Yes, it was.
14
Q.
15
A.
16
17
Q.
18
19
A.
20
21
been fired.
22
Okay.
10:57:25
June 2014.
10:57:34
IEN
DS
10:58:02
23
24
25
arrested.
FR
10:57:42
Ultimately, he was
10:58:22
OF
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1
2
judge -- and I believe her name was Goodwin -- she asked some
and he said, Well, maybe when I get in I can pocket some shit
for myself.
One of the
Excuse my language.
10
11
12
that was the terminology that he used, and that all HSU
13
14
15
Statues.
16
17
18
Q.
19
20
21
A.
22
Q.
Okay.
IEN
10:59:26
10:59:46
23
A.
24
25
FR
10:59:02
And you -- well, when you went back to PSB, how did
DS
Okay.
10:58:41
11:00:04
OF
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guys.
captain.
it as well as transcripts.
was Shetler and Brady Anthony sat for several hours and
to, you know, develop a game plan, or see how we would approach
Q.
10
A.
Yes.
11
Q.
12
13
A.
14
15
16
17
side of IA.
18
He gave me audiotape of
11:00:48
11:01:11
19
21
22
IEN
DS
20
23
24
Q.
25
attention of PSB?
FR
11:00:32
11:01:34
OF
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A.
That's my understanding.
Q.
A.
That's correct.
Q.
A.
Okay.
11:02:01
He was arrested.
10
11
12
Q.
13
A.
14
15
16
17
18
Q.
19
A.
20
21
Q.
22
A.
For lying.
24
side?
25
A.
11:02:39
DS
IEN
Q.
FR
23
11:02:19
11:03:02
Initially in 2011.
11:03:09
OF
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Q.
Okay.
information.
A.
information.
additional evidence.
10
11
12
13
14
arrest him.
So we
11:03:45
We came to a
15
16
17
investigation administratively.
18
Q.
19
20
A.
21
Q.
Did he invoke his Miranda rights and not talk to you about
22
certain topics?
11:04:02
Now, when you interviewed him did you give him Garrity
IEN
DS
11:04:14
23
A.
24
25
FR
11:03:26
8
9
11:04:28
OF
TH
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Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Yes.
Q.
Did you try to gain his confidence while you were talking
to him?
A.
Sure.
Q.
A.
10
you know.
11
12
apprehension.
13
14
him -- invited him to come down and speak, which he did on his
15
16
Q.
17
A.
18
Q.
19
Navarrette?
20
A.
Yes.
21
Q.
22
A.
No.
IEN
Q.
24
25
A.
11:04:53
In fact, I think
DS
23
FR
11:04:41
11:05:11
11:05:23
11:05:43
OF
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Q.
A.
named off the items that are commonly pocketed by all HSU, he
them back and use the items pocketed as training aids, tools.
Q.
It could -- he
10
11
A.
12
13
Q.
14
15
A.
16
17
18
screen."
19
Q.
20
21
correct?
22
A.
11:06:23
Tell me the property you recall him talking about, all the
All right.
11:06:35
DS
Okay.
11:06:55
IEN
That's correct.
23
Q.
All right.
24
A.
25
FR
11:06:00
11:07:08
OF
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were stolen?
training aids.
6
7
HSU.
10
the guys who were supposed to assist me, and that they had --
11
12
13
14
15
16
to go back and work under the same roof and there may be an
17
issue.
11:07:50
11:08:18
18
20
21
Q.
22
about this -- these guys who told you that they thought --
DS
19
11:08:32
IEN
23
24
this point?
25
FR
11:07:29
OF
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A.
beneficial.
interview.
We
11:09:07
6
7
me, the two detectives that were -- that were tasked with
They're plainclothes.
The
10
fear that I got -- well, from what I gather, is that you just
11
never know.
12
13
14
15
16
investigations.
17
that there may be a conflict, and maybe one of the guys would
18
be -- you know, slip up, and because he's pissed off at them,
19
20
21
be put in.
22
Q.
11:09:41
DS
So it was a
11:09:58
IEN
23
A.
24
Q.
This issue?
25
A.
FR
11:09:21
I mean --
11:10:08
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4
5
would sit in and watch interviews from our interview rooms and
Q.
10
He
Now, you said just a few minutes ago that you started by
11
11:10:40
12
13
A.
14
15
physical evidence.
16
17
18
19
live victim.
Again, based
So I just started
22
IEN
21
11:11:15
23
24
25
FR
11:10:59
DS
20
11:10:23
And I guess
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I wasn't
3
4
even know Cisco Perez, which was another -- that was another
problem I had.
stopped.
It
9
10
11
12
their interviews?
13
14
interviews.
Have
17
18
19
20
21
22
IEN
DS
16
24
FR
25
11:12:15
15
23
11:11:52
11:12:29
In
11:12:47
11:13:02
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investigation.
content.
said:
content.
Then they
11:13:23
It wasn't -- it wasn't
10
and we were asked to meet with monitors Rojas and Peters, and I
11
was told that -- just prior to the meeting I was told to cease.
12
No more interviews.
13
14
Q.
15
16
A.
Typically, yes.
17
Q.
18
A.
19
pushing me.
20
21
22
IEN
23
11:14:17
24
inquiry and see where it goes, and I quickly learned that no,
25
FR
11:13:59
DS
Okay.
11:13:39
11:14:37
OF
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Q.
this done?
A.
Well, yes.
Why are
So, no, did someone say, Hey, you have to do this and
7
8
common sense.
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
Q.
20
21
A.
22
So I did.
11:15:10
Well,
11:15:28
I scheduled and we
DS
11:15:47
IEN
Oh, yes.
23
your case.
24
25
the questions that we strongly suggest that you answer, and you
FR
11:14:52
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Q.
A.
Yes.
Q.
to interview?
A.
Okay.
10
11
12
I don't know.
Is
11:16:34
Maybe we didn't
13
14
form of two or three lists, but we finally got the names of the
15
16
11:16:50
17
you know, I was under the impression they were suggesting that
19
20
21
22
IEN
DS
18
There was a
11:17:10
We want to
This guy
23
interviewed.
24
25
FR
11:16:19
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2
3
did.
Q.
A.
That's it.
11:17:41
I mean, it was -- it
10
11
12
Q.
Okay.
13
A.
I'm sorry.
14
Q.
15
but at some point Captain Bailey told you to stop, that you
16
17
A.
That's correct.
18
Q.
Okay.
19
20
Captain Bailey?
21
A.
22
11:18:12
DS
IEN
Yes.
11:18:00
11:18:24
23
Q.
24
25
A.
FR
How are we
Yes.
11:18:35
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it was fluid.
Again, I had
no victims.
I had words
5
6
ahead.
who was involved with another guy got arrested for smuggling
information.
10
11
12
11:19:13
13
14
15
anybody saying, Hey, you know, you have to have this done by
16
17
18
expeditiously.
19
Q.
20
they were?
21
A.
22
Can I recall
11:19:32
DS
11:19:45
IEN
They were geared, and they were just questions that -- that
23
24
25
John Smith came forward last week and said that somebody stole
FR
11:18:57
11:20:03
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what I thought.
Q.
A.
Oh, yes.
10
Q.
11
A.
12
13
14
15
16
establish that.
That's
But that --
17
11:20:29
That
set may have been one of those questions, too, 'cause it's
19
20
items.
21
addressed.
DS
11:21:01
IEN
23
24
25
had to go on.
FR
11:20:48
18
22
11:20:18
That's all I
11:21:16
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the guys.
I don't
like that, but not in a way that -- it's hard to explain, but
Q.
It goes
10
11
investigation?
12
A.
11:21:44
MR. SEGURA:
13
Leading.
MR. KILLEBREW:
14
THE COURT:
15
Leading.
Sustained.
16
BY MR. MASTERSON:
17
Q.
18
19
20
A.
21
22
game plan that we would talk to folks that we believed if, "if"
11:21:54
IEN
DS
23
there was something that was -- that could have been criminal
24
25
FR
11:21:29
11:22:05
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additional information.
I want to tell you right now I don't know why that was
2
3
not done.
throughout.
So I don't know.
10
11
12
13
criminal investigation.
14
Q.
15
16
A.
Yes.
17
Q.
18
A.
19
20
21
headquarters.
22
Q.
We
11:23:05
DS
11:23:20
11:23:38
IEN
23
A.
24
25
FR
11:22:48
11:23:57
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Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Yes.
Q.
A.
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
Q.
17
18
A.
19
same.
20
listen to them and view them and they're all the same.
21
Q.
22
A.
I don't know.
11:24:08
And the
11:24:49
IEN
DS
23
Q.
24
25
FR
11:24:26
11:25:03
In the time you worked with PSB and before -- well, let's
11:25:24
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1
2
A.
11
12
13
14
suspects on property --
15
Q.
Okay.
16
A.
-- ideally.
17
Q.
18
19
A.
Yes, several.
20
Q.
21
A.
I think the number was 47, but it could have been a few
22
IEN
DS
10
11:26:06
11:26:24
Do you remember?
23
Q.
24
25
A.
FR
11:25:46
11:26:32
11:26:48
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knew that I could get them done eventually, but no, I would
have liked to have had more, more folks helping me, sure.
Q.
A.
more difficult.
sure.
Q.
Okay.
10
A.
That's correct.
11
Q.
12
13
A.
That is.
14
Q.
And how many days after you started did that happen?
15
A.
16
17
Q.
18
recall?
19
A.
I did.
20
Q.
21
A.
22
was.
Yeah, I do.
11:27:29
11:27:40
11:27:50
IEN
23
24
25
FR
11:27:12
DS
Okay.
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Q.
A.
Okay.
And what did they tell you, or what did -- what did
11:28:27
9
10
11
12
13
11:28:54
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
what I thought.
21
Q.
22
A.
Absolutely not.
I think
That's
IEN
DS
11:29:27
23
Q.
Why not?
24
A.
25
have a family.
FR
11:29:11
If I didn't want to do
11:29:38
OF
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Q.
A.
Yes.
Q.
A.
nature.
In my opinion,
10
11
12
captain, I'm not sure, but he got the questions and then
13
14
15
several of mine, the ones that I asked, but they added several
16
as well.
17
18
administration.
19
Q.
20
A.
Yes.
21
Q.
22
A.
Yes.
I don't know if
DS
IEN
11:30:18
11:30:39
11:30:52
23
Q.
24
25
interviewed?
FR
11:29:53
11:31:11
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A.
And there were a few guys that I was interviewing, and I had
I mean, I've been around this office 15 years and I know some
of these guys.
that, I don't know, I don't know why I didn't ask them, but
10
11
those questions.
12
13
Q.
14
you remember?
15
A.
16
want to say the end of July, maybe third week of July, I think.
17
Q.
18
Okay.
I think it finished up in -- I
11:32:00
DS
A.
Yes.
22
Q.
Okay.
IEN
21
11:32:59
23
A.
Yes.
24
Q.
Do you recall talking about that last week with Mr. Segura?
25
A.
Yes.
FR
11:31:41
19
20
11:31:26
11:33:08
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MR. MASTERSON:
THE COURT:
Sure.
BY MR. MASTERSON:
Q.
A.
Yes.
Q.
A.
The --
Q.
It might be --
A.
Sure.
10
Q.
11
screen?
12
A.
I do.
13
Q.
14
June 17th.
15
investigation.
16
A.
17
18
19
20
and he explains that they -- in his mind they were not of any
21
22
Q.
11:33:29
DS
And
11:34:29
24
A.
25
Q.
FR
11:34:08
IEN
23
11:33:53
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Deputy Rangel.
A.
Rangel.
Q.
Okay, Rangel.
A.
Yes.
Q.
A.
drop houses.
Q.
10
A.
11
12
13
14
Q.
15
A.
I've not.
16
Q.
11:35:02
11:35:32
17
18
A.
Yes.
19
Q.
Rangel?
20
A.
You did.
21
Q.
22
11:35:39
DS
IEN
23
MR. SEGURA:
24
BY MR. MASTERSON:
25
Q.
FR
11:35:13
Objection, leading.
Well, why don't you read what he said, the second sentence
11:35:50
OF
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THE COURT:
4
5
THE WITNESS:
7
8
BY MR. MASTERSON:
That's good.
I don't
Okay.
10
Q.
11
reporter --
12
A.
13
14
15
16
17
11:36:26
11:36:38
18
Q.
Okay.
20
21
cocaine or something?
22
A.
DS
19
11:36:58
IEN
23
24
25
FR
11:36:13
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3
4
friends was on the force with him, and he was arrested because
what the relevance was or how that connected, how the kilos of
cocaine in any way was referring to or, you know, being related
I don't know.
I just
10
to a statue or a T-shirt.
11
12
13
ask.
14
Q.
15
cocaine?
16
A.
17
to me.
18
Q.
19
here.
20
A.
21
22
Q.
I was
11:38:04
11:38:24
Tell me every item you remember that you were dealing with
DS
Every item.
IEN
23
now?
24
A.
I don't know.
25
Q.
Okay.
FR
11:37:38
11:38:33
11:38:44
OF
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A.
paraphernalia.
Q.
Okay.
A.
And then the flat screen TV that he threw out there, the
Q.
A.
out that Cisco Perez, when he spoke with the judge in the
Go ahead.
11:38:55
10
11
12
13
it.
14
15
16
There's a procedure.
We can do
But we can
18
19
20
In
DS
23
24
but a television set was taken, two television sets were taken
25
FR
11:39:47
IEN
22
11:39:31
17
21
11:39:12
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the report, in the drop house, and typically items of value are
5
6
10
11
12
Q.
13
A.
14
15
16
17
Evidence.
18
legally seized.
19
Q.
Properly documented?
20
A.
Yes, sir.
21
Q.
Placed in evidence?
22
A.
Yes.
24
FR
25
Q.
11:40:49
11:41:06
11:41:22
DS
IEN
23
11:40:28
BY MR. MASTERSON:
Objection, leading.
11:41:30
Q.
OF
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Do you know?
MR. SEGURA:
THE COURT:
3
4
Objection, leading.
he knows.
THE WITNESS:
BY MR. MASTERSON:
Those
Q.
11
12
A.
Yes, I was.
13
Q.
14
A.
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
IEN
DS
10
11:42:00
11:42:20
We were
11:42:47
23
24
Q.
They were --
25
A.
FR
11:41:39
11:43:05
OF
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identification cards.
Q.
A.
Q.
cards.
A.
Okay.
11:43:16
Okay.
10
Q.
11
12
13
A.
Yes.
14
Q.
Okay.
15
these IDs?
16
A.
17
18
19
20
21
Q.
Okay.
22
A.
All right.
11:43:30
Are you
11:43:49
Obviously, it was
IEN
DS
So I took
11:44:07
had no idea how long those identification cards had been where
24
they were.
25
the names.
FR
23
We looked up
11:44:24
OF
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Q.
A.
he came across some -- I'm not certain how he came across them,
Q.
said?
A.
Yeah.
10
11
and if I saw the photo, it had the drug lord on the top of
12
13
so I don't know what they're called, but the cover itself had
14
15
Q.
Oh, you didn't know the guy; somebody just told you that?
16
A.
17
El Chapo.
18
Q.
Okay.
19
A.
20
Q.
11:45:49
23
A.
24
25
FR
11:45:37
IEN
22
11:45:09
DS
21
11:44:44
11:46:06
OF
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sure we got all those in order to analyze them, figure out why
they were found, first of all, and not put into Property and
Q.
through.
Okay.
11:46:24
9
10
A.
Yes.
11
Q.
12
A.
13
Q.
Scott?
14
A.
Scott.
15
Q.
Okay.
16
to you?
17
18
19
A.
20
21
and so forth, not so much me, but the other folks were doing
22
11:46:40
IEN
DS
11:47:06
So he found those, he
23
24
they were where they were, so he just gave them to me, knowing
25
FR
11:46:47
11:47:24
OF
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Q.
A.
10
Okay.
addresses.
11:48:12
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
Q.
19
remember?
20
A.
21
Q.
22
11:48:25
IEN
DS
How many IDs were there that you were looking at, do you
23
24
A.
25
you can -- we can access, anyway, that you can punch in names,
FR
11:47:39
11:48:37
OF
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Q.
A.
database.
There's several.
They
10
11
of times we will.
12
13
14
15
they do.
16
Q.
17
system?
18
A.
19
Q.
20
A.
Yes.
21
Q.
22
A.
Yes.
A lot of
11:49:56
DS
Q.
11:49:39
11:50:07
24
25
FR
And a lot
IEN
23
11:49:11
11:50:16
OF
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A.
Q.
A.
10
11:50:38
Did you find any information about any of these people you
address and one was a -- they didn't know who this person was.
I recall at a later date getting some additional IDs
11
12
that came from a few purses that were found left behind, same
13
14
same thing.
15
16
Q.
17
of these IDs?
18
A.
19
Yeah.
22
in of the purses.
IEN
21
11:51:27
23
24
25
FR
11:51:13
DS
20
11:50:51
11:51:47
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3
4
son had been under the watch, I guess you would say, or under
10
I spoke with a
11:52:31
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
Q.
21
sound maybe --
22
A.
DS
IEN
MR. SEGURA:
24
THE COURT:
FR
11:52:55
But
Does that
11:53:12
It was somewhere --
23
25
11:52:08
BY MR. MASTERSON:
Objection, leading.
I'm going to sustain the objection.
11:53:22
OF
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Q.
A.
Q.
Okay.
A.
Yes.
Q.
I'm sorry?
A.
What page?
10
Q.
80.
11:53:49
THE COURT:
13
Which volume?
Excuse me.
MR. MASTERSON:
14
15
What page?
MR. MASTERSON:
12
Oh.
16
BY MR. MASTERSON:
18
Q.
19
20
DS
MR. SEGURA:
THE COURT:
IEN
22
23
BY MR. MASTERSON:
24
Q.
Did it?
25
A.
Yes.
FR
11:54:02
Makes sense.
17
21
11:53:37
THE COURT:
11
If it were me that
11:54:21
Objection, leading.
Overruled.
11:54:47
OF
TH
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Q.
A.
Twenty to thirty.
Q.
Okay.
was this guy on one of the IDs, or is this guy you're looking
A.
10
11:55:01
I'm
11:55:23
11
12
13
14
15
Tennessee.
11:55:42
16
A lady
17
18
this person who we thought owned the purse, or once owned the
19
purse.
20
21
22
Q.
DS
IEN
23
four IDs that were turned over to you from Sergeant Scott where
24
you tried to run down who these folks were to this purse and
25
FR
11:55:59
11:56:18
OF
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or not?
A.
It does.
Q.
How?
A.
Zebro with those IDs and the CD, it was -- felt it necessary
10
Q.
Okay.
11
A.
I don't know who made the call, but that call was made --
12
11:56:50
13
14
15
cleaning everything out, they had found two purses that were in
16
the lockers.
17
18
Support building.
19
20
21
22
look right.
DS
IEN
11:57:09
11:57:30
That's how I
23
got them.
24
Q.
Okay.
25
A.
FR
11:56:26
OF
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entire building.
Q.
couple of purses.
remember?
A.
know if there were two searches, but there was a very detailed
items.
11:57:56
10
11
12
the other items were, maybe hard copy -- I think they were hard
13
14
Q.
Okay.
THE COURT:
15
MR. MASTERSON:
16
THE WITNESS:
17
I'm sorry.
19
20
sorry.
11:58:59
Thank you.
23
Q.
24
A.
Yes.
25
Q.
FR
I'm
BY MR. MASTERSON:
IEN
22
DS
THE COURT:
11:58:34
Oh, absolutely.
18
21
11:58:11
11:59:05
OF
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A.
Yes.
Q.
A.
I -- I don't.
Q.
Okay.
trying to find folks whose IDs you found, and we talked about
the criminal databases, and you also mentioned you found some
receipts.
10
A.
11
12
13
14
15
16
sort of thing.
19
point we think the owner of the purse was somehow involved with
20
21
a lead.
22
Q.
DS
18
11:59:52
12:00:10
IEN
Okay.
23
MR. MASTERSON:
24
THE COURT:
FR
11:59:31
17
25
11:59:18
8
9
and 15 minutes.
All right.
12:00:20
OF
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3
4
both of you last time about when and who we're going to call
holding how many days we're going to take up, so if you haven't
Thank you.
THE COURT:
10
Please be seated.
13:18:21
Please.
11
12
BY MR. MASTERSON:
13
Q.
14
15
16
13:19:02
17
A.
Yes.
19
Q.
Did you follow up with any other local agencies on how you
20
21
A.
I did.
22
Q.
IEN
DS
18
23
A.
24
25
Chandler.
FR
12:00:37
13:19:21
13:19:40
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1
2
Q.
departments?
A.
Q.
Okay.
A.
13:19:51
Go ahead.
10
11
Q.
12
A.
13
do.
14
15
16
17
business, they bring it back and they would put it into the
18
19
20
Q.
21
A.
22
DS
IEN
24
25
Q.
13:20:25
23
FR
13:20:04
13:20:43
13:21:03
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A.
It's destroyed.
Q.
talking about?
A.
were with the -- with the licenses and drivers' licenses just
There
10
11
12
the room you turned right and there was a cardboard box on the
13
floor.
14
it.
15
16
17
he could come in and grab the shears and cut the plate up or
18
19
Q.
20
21
A.
22
sort, did they log them in, and I don't believe the man was
13:21:39
13:22:07
DS
13:22:22
IEN
23
24
25
destroyed.
FR
13:21:19
13:22:42
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Q.
Okay.
3
4
MR. MASTERSON:
THE COURT:
Should be in
Sure.
BY MR. MASTERSON:
Q.
A.
Yes, I have.
10
Q.
What is that?
11
A.
12
13
14
15
Q.
16
Exhibit 2007.
17
18
19
A.
20
Q.
21
A.
I had.
22
Q.
IEN
23
24
A.
25
FR
13:23:38
13:24:00
DS
Okay.
13:23:29
13:24:20
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Q.
Okay.
What I want
to Mr. Manning.
A.
13:24:46
Particularly, I was
10
11
12
13
Q.
14
15
about this?
16
A.
17
18
19
20
Q.
21
22
Okay.
13:25:10
13:25:32
IEN
DS
23
A.
24
Q.
Why not?
25
A.
FR
And in
13:25:49
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items.
We couldn't establish
intent.
I said, MVD.
at times.
Q.
about value of the items, and you just did right there again,
They don't
10
What
11
12
A.
13
don't mean to come off as being smart in any way, but if you --
14
Q.
15
A.
13:27:03
18
19
and women that work for this office wake up in the morning
20
21
22
IEN
DS
17
24
FR
25
13:26:41
16
23
13:26:27
13:27:21
I don't -- like I
13:27:45
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value.
there's no intent.
Q.
it might be --
MR. KILLEBREW:
THE COURT:
Leading, objection.
Sustained.
10
BY MR. MASTERSON:
11
Q.
12
13
crime?
14
A.
Yes.
15
Q.
16
A.
No.
17
Q.
18
cards.
19
20
A.
Yes.
21
Q.
22
A.
No.
13:28:41
DS
IEN
13:28:57
23
Q.
24
25
FR
13:28:04
13:29:25
13:29:38
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A.
Q.
A.
they would take them back to their offices and display them.
Q.
A.
10
thing.
11
Q.
12
13:30:23
13
I understand you
14
15
A.
16
17
13:30:49
18
procedural issues.
20
21
22
Q.
DS
19
13:31:12
IEN
Should they have documented what they did better than they
23
did?
24
A.
Oh, sure.
25
Q.
FR
13:30:02
13:31:28
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A.
That's correct.
Q.
A.
No.
administrative in nature.
Q.
A.
Sure.
Q.
A.
No, sir.
10
Q.
11
12
13
14
A.
That is.
15
Q.
16
17
18
A.
19
20
21
Q.
22
A.
Yes.
13:31:47
I don't know if he
13:32:18
I've been asked that question before, and I've thought long
IEN
DS
Cisco Perez, in
23
Q.
24
25
FR
13:32:06
13:32:44
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been committed.
A.
I do.
Q.
When you use the word "unfortunately," why are you -- why
A.
something that some people think you did, and it's a -- they
10
reasonable suspicion.
13:33:40
11
12
13
is on the take.
14
15
16
17
18
Q.
19
20
21
A.
22
says:
I don't know if it
13:33:58
So it's just --
I don't.
DS
So you just drew an analogy of some guy who gets fired from
13:34:20
IEN
Arson.
23
24
Perez said.
25
for training.
FR
13:33:22
That's his
13:34:35
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Q.
And to be -- to be walked
10
11
A.
12
began when Cisco Perez suggested that all HSU members pocketed
13
items, took them back, and used them for training aids.
14
Q.
15
16
17
What was that, 2007, you got that back from Mr. Manning, is
18
that correct?
Now, after this was all over, I think you just told us a
MR. SEGURA:
Overruled.
23
Q.
24
25
A.
FR
13:35:54
BY MR. MASTERSON:
IEN
22
THE COURT:
13:35:32
MR. MASTERSON:
DS
21
13:35:15
19
20
13:34:55
After you got Exhibit 2007 from Mr. Manning, did you have
13:36:08
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HSU folks.
THE COURT:
5
6
I'm tracking.
right?
THE COURT:
I just want -- as
MR. MASTERSON:
14
Sure.
15
BY MR. MASTERSON:
16
Q.
17
place?
18
I'm asking you this question is because the letter from -- or,
19
13:37:05
The reason
DS
20
21
2014?
22
A.
IEN
24
25
Q.
Okay.
13:37:18
23
FR
13:36:53
12
13
13:36:45
10
11
MR. MASTERSON:
8
9
Wait a minute.
And
13:37:33
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A.
the fact.
Q.
A.
Okay.
MR. SEGURA:
THE COURT:
order --
13:37:56
witnesses?
MR. MASTERSON:
13
14
11
12
13:37:45
9
10
7
8
15
MR. MASTERSON:
16
Can --
Did not.
17
THE COURT:
18
Okay.
20
of Mr. Segura.
MR. MASTERSON:
13:38:18
IEN
22
DS
19
21
23
24
25
events.
FR
13:38:06
13:38:41
THE COURT:
MR. MASTERSON:
2
3
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4
5
BY MR. MASTERSON:
Q.
monitors.
A.
was mid-July.
13:38:53
Yes.
10
July.
11
12
It
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
information.
At one point we
names thrown out there that would have been part of maybe some
22
IEN
21
23
aware of.
24
25
FR
13:39:37
DS
20
13:39:06
13:39:57
13:40:18
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round-table things.
2
3
investigation.
They
13:40:37
I was disappointed, to
say -- to say the least, 'cause I had these feelings all along
And the
10
11
12
13
14
Q.
15
16
you were told by the monitors that they didn't feel you should
17
18
A.
19
20
Q.
21
22
these 47 guys?
I knocked on the
13:41:26
IEN
DS
But didn't one of the monitors criticize you for asking too
23
A.
Yes.
24
Q.
25
A.
I did not.
FR
13:40:52
13:41:45
13:41:59
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Q.
evidence.
And I
me -- yeah.
Receipt"?
A.
Yes.
Q.
10
I just want you to take a look at that list of items and see if
11
you can recall Mr. Segura asking you questions about any of the
12
13
A.
Yes.
14
Q.
15
A.
Yes.
16
Q.
17
A.
No, it doesn't.
18
19
20
Q.
21
22
A.
13:43:22
13:43:38
DS
But was this document and these items listed here, did that
13:44:00
IEN
23
24
25
FR
13:42:52
13:44:23
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Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
documents?
A.
Yes.
10
Q.
11
A.
12
order to place a piece of evidence into our system now you have
13
to have a barcode --
14
Q.
15
somewhere else.
16
A.
I do.
17
Q.
18
A.
19
20
they're working.
21
Q.
22
13:45:31
13:45:42
DS
IEN
Okay.
13:45:05
In
23
A.
24
25
Q.
FR
13:44:44
But I know
13:45:52
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you some questions about, and the TVs in there, have anything
pocketed property?
A.
Q.
All right.
THE COURT:
10
BY MR. MASTERSON:
13
Q.
14
A.
I do.
15
Q.
16
A.
17
18
19
20
21
Q.
22
13:47:06
DS
IEN
13:46:55
I did not.
12
23
A.
24
25
Q.
FR
13:46:18
No.
MR. MASTERSON:
11
So
MR. MASTERSON:
They
THE COURT:
13:47:33
13:47:57
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in front of you?
A.
Yes.
Q.
A.
December 7th.
Q.
Okay.
A.
Yes.
On the screen
13:48:10
Some of the
10
with, and then they were matching the evidence that was placed
11
12
reports.
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
When we
22
IEN
21
Taken to Property
13:49:03
23
24
25
FR
13:48:49
DS
20
13:48:28
And that's
And it was
13:49:27
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Q.
is that correct?
A.
Yes.
Q.
What was the date or, if you remember, around the date of
A.
10
Q.
11
A.
12
Q.
Okay.
13:49:42
13
14
A.
Yes.
15
Q.
16
17
paragraph?
18
A.
Yes.
19
Q.
Okay.
20
investigation.
21
A.
22
DS
13:50:40
IEN
13:50:20
23
people involved.
24
25
FR
13:49:53
And I brought
13:50:59
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2
3
case was already five years old, and they've processed probably
I interviewed him.
Q.
A.
He -- I
10
11
12
the money.
13
Q.
14
15
A.
16
Q.
17
18
A.
19
20
21
it, attach it to a report, and then send the report into the
22
13:51:49
IEN
DS
24
thing to do.
FR
13:51:33
23
25
13:51:20
13:52:08
13:52:25
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13:52:41
8
9
It's a
10
And in
11
doing so, they would give whatever cash that was on one person,
12
13
they would give the cash to that person because they were going
14
15
13:53:22
16
don't know.
18
me, that made sense rather than stealing the money, filling out
19
20
very high profile report which many people have access to.
21
22
IEN
DS
17
It
13:53:34
23
Q.
24
25
A.
FR
13:53:00
But still you're not trying to tell Judge Snow that it was
13:53:51
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Q.
Do you know how -- how it was five years after the fact
A.
They cross-checked it
10
And in doing so, they did catch things like this where it does
11
12
13
money.
14
Q.
15
16
occur?
17
18
A.
Well --
19
Q.
20
A.
No.
21
22
13:54:39
DS
IEN
13:55:01
23
24
25
FR
13:54:19
13:55:17
If anything appeared
13:55:35
OF
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Q.
Okay.
A.
case.
Q.
It was a five-year-old
10
other MCSO employee stole $260, what would you have done?
11
A.
I'm sorry.
12
Q.
13
other MCSO employee, stole $260 from someone who had been
14
15
A.
16
17
18
Q.
13:56:13
13:56:29
19
supplemental report.
21
investigation?
22
A.
DS
20
13:57:12
IEN
23
24
25
Q.
FR
13:55:56
13:57:33
No.
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A.
information that was provided to him, and his job was to see if
Q.
investigation?
A.
Q.
Does this report indicate that these folks were turned over
to ICE?
A.
10
Q.
Go back up.
11
12
A.
Yes, I do.
13
Q.
14
A.
15
Q.
16
try to locate these four people who were turned over to ICE
17
18
A.
19
20
21
Q.
22
A.
FR
A.
13:58:19
13:58:37
13:59:00
DS
Q.
Okay.
24
25
13:57:50
IEN
23
I mean, Jones was given the names and he was given the
Yes.
Fair enough.
Now, can you please look at Exhibit 2026.
OF
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Q.
A.
Q.
either?
A.
Charley Armendariz.
Okay.
13:59:52
No, this was -- Cluff, he was part of the guys who were in
10
Q.
11
12
13
A.
14
Q.
15
El Salvador.
16
would check.
17
18
20
Q.
Do you know?
21
A.
I don't know.
22
IEN
DS
BY MR. MASTERSON:
14:01:01
23
24
Q.
FR
25
14:00:38
Objection, leading.
19
Okay.
14:00:11
All right.
14:01:30
OF
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Is that okay?
A.
Q.
A.
I was made aware of McKessy, I'm not sure who made me aware
of it, but I knew that McKessy had met with Chief Lopez
her.
Zebro.
10
Q.
11
A.
Yes, I do.
12
Q.
13
A.
14
15
16
Q.
17
A.
18
Q.
19
Interviewing her?
20
A.
21
22
14:02:09
14:02:24
IEN
DS
Well, I was -- from what I recall, I was told that she was
23
Q.
24
threats?
25
A.
FR
14:01:49
Okay.
14:02:36
14:02:52
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Q.
A.
We did.
Q.
Detective Mackiewicz?
A.
Q.
10
A.
She said that they had been, in her words, I think she said
11
exclusive for two and a half -- at least she felt they were
12
exclusive for two and a half years, up until I believe she said
13
April or May of 2014 when she found out that he had another
14
girlfriend.
15
Q.
16
17
A.
18
19
her and she reached out to her, befriended her, and began to
20
21
other women.
22
Q.
Okay.
And then do you know what she did when she found out
14:03:32
14:03:49
She said that she had reached out, she identified the
DS
She identified
14:04:11
IEN
23
Detective Mackiewicz?
24
A.
25
it.
FR
14:03:17
You know, I don't know, I don't recall her saying she ended
I mean, she said -- yeah, she did.
14:04:27
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because she said she was -- she sent his -- the final text, or
ended it.
talk to us.
Q.
other woman?
A.
Q.
other woman?
Okay.
10
A.
11
Q.
12
13
A.
14
15
believe there were some threats, or there was said to have been
16
some threats.
17
information.
18
was said.
19
Q.
20
A.
Yes.
21
Q.
22
A.
14:05:01
IEN
DS
Yeah.
23
24
hurt her, but -- I forget the exact word she used, maybe -- I
25
don't know what it was, but she wasn't fearful physically, she
FR
14:04:44
14:05:33
14:05:46
14:06:01
OF
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Q.
some reason?
A.
Q.
A.
brought up.
I may have.
14:06:15
I don't, but that probably was brought up, may have been
10
Q.
11
unimportant.
12
A.
13
unimportant.
14
Q.
15
A.
16
Q.
17
correct --
18
A.
Yes.
19
Q.
-- before lunch?
14:06:48
A.
I did.
22
Q.
Why?
IEN
21
23
A.
24
words.
25
Mackiewicz.
FR
14:06:27
14:06:59
DS
20
Okay.
Mary Ann McKessy used the same phrase, only not in those
She was very, very concerned, and very upset with Brian
Brian was cheating on her, lying to her.
In fact,
14:07:11
OF
TH
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Q.
prosecuted?
A.
chief.
No.
In fact, I think
10
she said that she would -- that would make her physically ill
11
12
13
14
house.
15
16
17
investigated.
18
19
Q.
20
21
A.
22
Q.
Okay.
14:07:59
14:08:13
IEN
DS
14:08:32
23
A.
Yes, sir.
24
Q.
25
FR
14:07:35
14:08:44
A.
certainly.
Q.
A.
10
No.
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I mean,
14:08:55
14:09:11
11
13
14
15
16
17
18
said that she would -- she lost contact with her, meaning
19
Christine, that she would befriend her again and try to gather
20
21
22
IEN
DS
12
She
23
evidence.
24
Q.
25
FR
14:09:28
14:09:46
Yes.
OF
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A.
I don't
She talked
Going to dinner,
She called
10
11
12
Q.
13
14
A.
15
Q.
16
investigation?
17
A.
No.
18
Q.
19
this investigation?
20
A.
21
Q.
22
14:10:40
IEN
DS
23
that?
24
A.
No.
25
Q.
FR
14:10:20
8
9
14:10:55
14:11:16
14:11:41
OF
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Just tell me, I don't care whose words you use, but what did
you do when you got to the point where you had finished your
investigation?
A.
14:12:07
She
She was
10
11
12
13
She's obviously
14
15
16
17
18
that.
19
21
No.
22
DS
IEN
I'm not
She's an attorney.
14:12:58
And she's a
23
need.
24
25
Q.
FR
14:12:40
20
14:12:22
She would
Not to me.
14:13:17
3104
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A.
Q.
A.
THE WITNESS:
THE COURT:
MR. WALKER:
THE COURT:
10
MR. COMO:
11
THE COURT:
12
Thank you.
Mr. Walker.
Mr. Como.
14:13:39
REDIRECT EXAMINATION
13
14
BY MR. SEGURA:
15
Q.
16
A.
Sure.
17
Q.
Mr. Masterson asked you about some purses that you had --
18
19
A.
Yes.
20
Q.
-- building?
21
A.
Yes.
22
Q.
14:13:50
IEN
DS
14:13:57
23
24
A.
25
FR
14:13:28
I don't know.
They
14:14:17
3105
OF
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Q.
A.
No.
Q.
A.
Yes, I did.
Q.
You didn't ask any of the agencies what they -- how they
10
did you?
11
A.
12
Q.
13
correct?
14
A.
15
16
17
Q.
18
destroyed?
19
A.
20
photocopied.
21
they're destroyed.
22
14:14:52
I don't know
I don't know
14:15:17
DS
IEN
They're
14:15:30
23
24
documented.
25
Q.
FR
14:14:34
14:15:44
3106
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identifications?
A.
I'm sorry?
Q.
A.
circumstances.
around it.
Q.
10
A.
11
circumstances.
12
Q.
13
Okay.
14:16:10
14
15
14:16:28
16
18
A.
19
Q.
20
21
A.
22
particular report.
DS
17
14:16:46
IEN
23
Q.
24
25
A.
FR
14:15:54
14:16:56
3107
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Q.
A.
Yes.
Q.
A.
14:17:16
10
11
12
13
to prove it.
14
15
16
17
that time.
18
Q.
19
that you were interviewing had worked with Cisco Perez, worked
20
21
A.
22
Q.
14:17:54
IEN
DS
14:18:11
23
after Cisco Perez left HSU that they could not be involved in
24
pocketing?
25
A.
FR
14:17:34
No.
I mean,
14:18:24
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televisions.
I guess at the time we were looking for that 62-inch TV, which
we never found.
14:18:46
6
7
either.
10
forth.
11
Q.
12
13
A.
Yes.
14
Q.
15
A.
Um-hum.
16
Q.
17
18
19
A.
Yes.
20
Q.
These items?
21
A.
22
Q.
Yes.
IEN
DS
23
A.
No.
24
Q.
25
FR
14:19:02
14:19:12
14:19:26
14:19:38
3109
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A.
Q.
THE COURT:
MR. SEGURA:
6
7
BY MR. SEGURA:
Q.
operations?
Objection, foundation.
14:20:01
Sure.
A.
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
IEN
DS
10
And
14:20:59
14:21:18
23
yes.
24
Q.
25
FR
14:20:25
3110
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A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
particular time.
not real -- I never worked with them, but they told me that a
10
11
12
in their minds, items of value, this TV, from what Palmer said,
13
was taken and placed into evidence for safekeeping in case the
14
15
Q.
16
17
A.
No, I don't.
18
Q.
19
20
21
A.
No, I wouldn't.
22
Q.
DS
And you don't know of any efforts that were made to locate
IEN
14:22:07
14:22:26
14:22:43
You wouldn't
23
24
A.
No, I wouldn't.
25
Q.
FR
14:21:49
14:22:54
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A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
I did not.
Q.
that the monitors believe that there should not have been a
10
11
A.
12
13
place.
14
15
Q.
16
17
18
A.
19
Q.
21
23
14:24:19
page.
Okay.
24
that you had with the monitors that you recorded in July of
25
FR
14:23:59
IEN
22
14:23:43
DS
20
14:23:16
14:25:00
3112
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A.
It is.
Q.
And do you see five up from the bottom, where Chief Kiyler
says:
not my problem"?
It's
14:25:13
6
7
A.
Yes.
Q.
10
THE COURT:
11
I don't know.
13
BY MR. SEGURA:
14
Q.
15
A.
16
are made.
17
Q.
Okay.
could we, under Rule 106, go on to what Chief Kiyler says down
20
below there?
THE COURT:
14:25:44
Yes.
MR. MASTERSON:
IEN
22
DS
19
21
23
THE COURT:
Yeah.
24
All right.
FR
25
14:25:29
MR. MASTERSON:
18
14:25:22
If he knows.
THE WITNESS:
12
Objection, foundation.
BY MR. SEGURA:
Thank you.
14:26:05
Q.
3113
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2
3
says:
"I and you know and I'm not judging whether it's the
14:26:26
A.
I do.
Q.
9
10
Objection, foundation.
Competence of
this witness.
14:26:37
THE COURT:
11
12
13
BY MR. SEGURA:
14
Q.
15
16
A.
17
18
19
there's ticks and things you -- I know that she was very clear,
20
21
22
If you know.
There's --
IEN
DS
23
chuckled.
24
Q.
25
FR
14:26:54
14:27:12
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A.
Q.
correct?
A.
indicate --
The monitors told you several times that they cannot order
I don't know if they used those exact words, but they did
10
Q.
11
135.
12
Kiyler says:
13
14
15
so."
14:28:25
Kiyler says:
17
18
these questions.
19
DS
A.
I do.
22
Q.
IEN
21
23
24
A.
25
FR
14:27:58
Do you see at the top of the page, five down, where Chief
16
20
14:27:44
14:28:39
3115
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them.
Q.
criminally?
A.
Yes, I do.
Q.
A.
I do not.
Q.
14:28:55
10
11
documents that she said she was going to come in with, is that
12
right?
13
A.
14
Q.
15
A.
16
Q.
Or misuse of overtime?
17
A.
18
Q.
19
payroll?
20
A.
21
22
"fraud."
IEN
DS
Q.
24
A.
Yes.
25
Q.
And couldn't you have interviewed him about his time sheet?
FR
23
14:29:27
14:29:44
14:29:55
14:30:08
3116
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A.
Q.
A.
hours.
They can be
I
10
11
Q.
12
13
A.
14
Q.
15
16
17
A.
Yes.
18
Q.
19
A.
Yes, I do.
20
Q.
21
22
DS
14:31:03
14:31:14
24
A.
He did, yes.
25
Q.
FR
14:30:43
Did you go through his overtime and ask him what he was
IEN
23
14:30:23
14:31:25
3117
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A.
Q.
Sure.
allegations, correct?
A.
Q.
Sure.
Okay.
I'm sorry.
14:31:44
10
11
12
13
A.
14
Q.
15
standard?
16
A.
17
18
Q.
19
higher standard?
20
A.
21
to a higher standard.
22
investigator does.
14:32:11
Sure.
IEN
DS
23
MR. SEGURA:
24
THE COURT:
25
MR. SEGURA:
FR
14:32:01
14:32:29
14:32:50
3118
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(Pause in proceedings.)
MR. SEGURA:
THE COURT:
All right.
THE COURT:
Sure.
afternoon break.
THE COURT:
11
THE COURT:
13
Yes, sir.
Thank you.
14:33:20
THE WITNESS:
12
THE WITNESS:
10
14:33:11
Thank you.
Thank you.
(Recess taken.)
14
THE COURT:
15
Please be seated.
14:52:14
EXAMINATION
16
17
BY THE COURT:
18
Q.
19
20
21
22
A.
Q.
24
25
FR
14:52:34
Sure.
IEN
23
I hope I
DS
14:52:48
3119
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but I'm asking directed questions to try and get to the heart
of the matter.
A.
That's correct.
Q.
-- is that correct?
A.
That's correct.
10
Q.
11
12
A.
That's correct.
13
Q.
14
A.
15
Q.
16
criminal investigation.
17
A.
Yes, sir.
18
Q.
19
20
on hold.
21
A.
22
DS
14:53:13
14:53:25
14:53:43
IEN
23
24
the statements.
25
Q.
FR
14:53:04
All right.
14:54:01
3120
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A.
Q.
investigation.
A.
That's correct.
Q.
Now, I think you testified that at some point early on, the
A.
Q.
And then you indicated that you had this meeting -- you had
already -- well, let me just make sure I've got the chronology
correct.
11
12
13
A.
That's correct.
14
Q.
15
16
A.
Yes, sir.
17
Q.
And then the next time you recall having a meeting with the
18
19
20
A.
21
Q.
22
A.
Yes, sir.
IEN
DS
10
Q.
24
A.
Detective Zebro.
25
Q.
FR
23
14:54:08
14:54:27
14:54:41
14:54:52
14:55:01
3121
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A.
Q.
A.
No, sir.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
Okay.
A.
10
Q.
11
12
A.
Yes, sir.
13
Q.
And I think you said that in that July meeting there was a
14
15
16
A.
Yes, sir.
17
Q.
18
A.
It did not.
19
20
21
discussed that with the monitors and they agreed it would have
22
DS
IEN
14:55:16
14:55:35
23
Q.
24
A.
In this meeting.
25
Q.
All right.
FR
14:55:10
So
And we
14:55:59
14:56:06
3122
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A.
No, Judge --
Q.
A.
10
11
12
Inquiry, I believe.
13
15
16
17
Q.
18
19
A.
20
21
Q.
22
Exhibit 2006?
All right.
14:57:06
DS
14:57:23
IEN
23
A.
Can I check?
24
Q.
25
A.
FR
14:56:48
14
14:56:27
14:58:07
3123
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Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
10
A.
11
12
13
systems.
14
IA number.
15
16
Q.
17
18
A.
To my knowledge, no.
19
Q.
20
investigation?
21
A.
To my knowledge, no.
22
Q.
Do you have any idea if such had happened, who would have
Okay.
14:58:28
We had -- we
14:59:13
IEN
DS
23
such knowledge?
24
A.
25
FR
14:58:50
14:59:28
3124
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Q.
A.
Q.
investigation?
A.
10
Q.
11
that you -- the Word document that you revised and then this
12
13
A.
Yes, I do.
14
Q.
15
your mouth.
Okay.
15:00:03
15:00:21
16
17
18
19
20
A.
21
don't recall the particulars off the top of my head right now.
22
Q.
DS
15:00:32
IEN
23
A.
24
about.
25
Q.
FR
14:59:55
15:00:45
3125
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A.
back.
Q.
respond?
A.
Yes.
Q.
the report?
It was a while
10
A.
11
Q.
12
13
A.
14
I've read it, but I don't recall the particulars right now.
15
Q.
16
17
Okay.
Have
Objection, foundation.
22
this has been polarized and I've had some time to think.
IEN
21
23
15:01:43
24
25
me.
FR
15:01:24
THE WITNESS:
DS
20
THE COURT:
19
15:01:11
MR. MASTERSON:
18
15:01:03
15:02:07
3126
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BY THE COURT:
Q.
A.
Okay.
far --
Q.
All right.
A.
Q.
and I may not, and that may take care more specifically of
15:02:15
10
11
12
13
monitor's report?
14
A.
15
be that involved.
16
17
those.
18
Q.
19
20
A.
21
Q.
All right.
22
that hearing.
15:02:41
IEN
DS
Well, if the record reflects that in fact you were here for
15:02:57
23
A.
Okay.
24
Q.
All right.
25
FR
15:02:24
I was here.
3127
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A.
honestly, I don't.
Q.
I listened to everything.
I --
4
5
10
A.
All right?
15:03:49
clerk.)
MR. SEGURA:
13
THE COURT:
14
MR. SEGURA:
15
16
Okay.
11
12
Your Honor --
Yes.
15:04:04
17
18
make sure you all have copies, so I'm going to give three
19
copies out.
20
21
22
IEN
DS
24
BY THE COURT:
25
Q.
15:04:27
23
FR
15:03:28
15:04:40
3128
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least as I read it, and I'm just going to point out a couple of
"initial observations."
15:05:33
6
7
A.
Yes, I do.
Q.
"Preliminary Findings."
10
A.
Yes.
11
Q.
12
15:05:41
13
A.
I do, sir.
15
Q.
16
A.
17
monitor --"
18
Q.
19
A.
Okay.
20
Q.
21
22
IEN
DS
14
criminal interviews?
24
A.
25
Q.
FR
23
15:05:56
15:06:09
15:06:26
3129
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A.
Q.
Where do you see the start of the very next paragraph where
it says:
interviews"?
A.
I do read that.
Q.
10
11
A.
12
the conversation that was had in July, middle of July, with the
13
14
Q.
15
16
team?
17
A.
18
19
investigator.
20
21
22
15:07:07
15:07:27
IEN
DS
15:07:44
23
Captain Bailey?
24
Q.
25
FR
15:06:57
3130
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A.
Q.
Were those the four questions that you had -- are those an
A.
Q.
Okay.
you'll see that upon learning the -- what they viewed as the
15:08:23
10
11
then if you turn the page, the next page and a half is some
12
13
A.
14
Q.
15
A.
Yes, I have.
16
Q.
17
next page and a half, was that a memorandum that you reviewed
18
19
A.
20
21
22
Q.
15:08:40
15:08:53
I did
DS
15:09:09
IEN
23
rush you, take a minute and see if you believe that this
24
25
A.
FR
And
Those
15:09:54
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are.
Q.
bottom of the page on page 33, and going over to page 34 on the
9
10
11
June 24th?
12
A.
13
Q.
14
15
A.
Right.
16
Q.
17
18
A.
Oh.
19
Q.
20
I'm talking --
15:10:43
15:10:51
A.
23
Q.
24
25
FR
15:10:29
IEN
22
DS
21
15:10:09
15:11:01
3132
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have you review it and see if in fact you recollect that you
sent that e-mail, whether or not you recollect that you sent
A.
Q.
Okay.
A.
Q.
think you said e-mails, but maybe not -- that you received
15:11:15
Yes.
10
11
A.
Yes, sir.
12
Q.
13
A.
Yes, sir.
14
Q.
15
A.
16
the attorneys.
17
Q.
All right.
18
A.
Fairly certain.
19
Q.
20
A.
Yes.
21
22
Q.
DS
15:12:06
15:12:15
IEN
23
24
25
A.
FR
15:11:58
Yes.
15:12:31
3133
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Q.
A.
I do recall straying
10
sir.
11
Q.
12
13
14
15
interviews?
16
A.
17
Q.
18
way that you had closed out the Cisco Perez investigation?
19
A.
20
21
Q.
22
15:13:05
Um-hum.
I'm sure
DS
15:13:20
15:13:38
IEN
23
24
A.
25
Q.
FR
15:12:49
15:13:52
3134
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A.
I have it.
Q.
A.
Yes.
Q.
it.
A.
10
Q.
All right.
11
12
A.
Yes.
13
Q.
14
15
A.
Yes.
16
Q.
17
IA case number?
18
A.
19
20
21
22
know.
DS
IEN
15:14:38
15:15:27
15:15:51
I don't -- I don't
23
Q.
24
25
FR
15:15:15
15:16:09
3135
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A.
Q.
Sure.
A.
Q.
Go ahead.
A.
Yes.
Q.
All right.
A.
I am not.
10
Q.
11
12
A.
Yes.
13
Q.
14
15
16
17
18
A.
19
Q.
20
21
22
15:16:29
I've listened
IEN
DS
But there is no
23
A.
That's correct.
24
Q.
25
FR
15:17:04
15:17:19
15:17:40
15:17:52
3136
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A.
deputies who were sifting through the documents and the items
Q.
didn't look at any -- you didn't try to find anybody who -- who
No, sir.
All right.
10
A.
11
12
Q.
13
that you later found, like these Mexican drivers' licenses and
14
15
16
A.
17
Q.
You're right.
18
A.
Okay.
19
Q.
20
A.
I'm sorry.
21
Q.
15:18:46
15:19:01
DS
23
24
A.
25
FR
15:18:28
IEN
22
I -- no, not that I'm aware of, specifically the ones that
Okay.
15:18:10
I do recall seeing
I
15:19:16
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you.
Q.
A.
sawed-off shotgun.
me.
Q.
But yes, I was told there was some drugs found and -- or
Yeah.
I recall a
10
15:19:45
11
A.
12
Q.
13
Armendariz's garage?
14
A.
15
the currency.
16
Q.
17
A.
18
19
Q.
Bank cards?
20
A.
I don't know.
21
22
Q.
DS
I don't recall
15:19:57
15:20:11
IEN
23
A.
Yes, sir.
24
Q.
25
A.
FR
15:19:33
15:20:25
3138
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Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
10
11
12
13
15:21:07
14
15
16
A.
17
18
Q.
19
20
number?
21
A.
22
15:21:18
15:21:36
DS
Okay.
IEN
23
24
numbering system.
25
FR
15:20:35
3139
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Q.
A.
Q.
And that was closed with 2006, I think is what you just
A.
Q.
I think you may have answered this, but I'm just going to
ask it:
15:22:08
10
A.
11
12
involved.
13
Q.
All right.
14
A.
15
Q.
16
17
18
A.
19
had with the guys, there were instances where people would
20
21
22
IEN
DS
15:22:45
15:23:01
23
24
25
Q.
FR
15:22:34
15:23:21
3140
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3
4
A.
Q.
10
A.
11
them about the trinkets and the -- the IDs and the license
12
plates and T-shirts and the flags and so forth, and we actually
13
14
15
16
17
referred to.
18
19
20
Q.
21
22
Well, yes.
FR
you.
15:23:53
15:24:24
DS
A.
24
25
Did you ever have anyone tell you that you didn't need to
IEN
23
15:23:38
15:24:43
Thank
15:25:09
THE WITNESS:
THE COURT:
THE COURT:
MR. WALKER:
THE COURT:
MR. COMO:
THE COURT:
Mr. Masterson.
No questions.
Mr. Walker.
MS. WANG:
10
Mr. Como.
15:25:36
11
13
14
THE COURT:
You may.
MS. WANG:
Thank you.
THE CLERK:
15
15:26:53
16
17
18
THE CLERK:
Thank you.
THE COURT:
Ms. Wang.
MS. WANG:
DS
19
22
IEN
21
23
24
BY MS. WANG:
25
Q.
FR
15:25:18
20
Thank you.
MR. MASTERSON:
12
3141
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15:27:18
DIRECT EXAMINATION
15:27:21
3142
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A.
Q.
Good.
A.
Good.
Q.
commander.
A.
Okay.
Q.
A.
Yes.
10
Q.
11
12
A.
13
Q.
14
A.
Yes.
15
Q.
16
17
A.
Yes.
18
Q.
19
A.
Yes.
20
Q.
21
A.
I believe 2007.
22
Q.
All right.
IEN
DS
15:27:36
15:27:48
15:27:56
23
24
A.
Yes.
25
Q.
FR
15:27:28
15:28:08
A.
Correct.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Right.
Q.
All right.
15:28:22
10
A.
Yes.
11
Q.
All right.
12
13
A.
That's correct.
14
Q.
15
A.
Yes.
16
Q.
17
A.
18
Q.
19
A.
Yes.
20
Q.
Okay.
21
22
A.
15:28:34
15:28:47
DS
15:28:59
IEN
Yes.
23
Q.
24
whole, correct?
25
A.
FR
3143
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Yes.
15:29:10
3144
OF
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Q.
A.
Yes.
Q.
A.
Yes.
Q.
A.
Yes.
Q.
All right.
15:29:30
10
11
12
A.
Yes.
13
Q.
All right.
14
15
A.
Yes, it was.
16
Q.
17
18
19
A.
I understand, yes.
20
Q.
Okay.
21
22
IEN
DS
23
A.
24
25
efficiently.
FR
15:29:45
15:29:58
15:30:08
15:30:26
Q.
Okay.
All right.
Thank you.
A.
Okay.
Q.
15:30:44
8
9
3145
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10
11
12
13
bigger chunks.
14
"Answer:
15
15:31:14
16
A.
Yes.
18
Q.
19
A.
Yes.
20
Q.
21
22
A.
DS
17
15:31:28
IEN
Yes.
23
Q.
Since 1996?
24
A.
25
FR
15:31:01
He addressed my academy
15:31:40
Q.
Okay.
THE COURT:
2
3
hearing you.
THE WITNESS:
THE COURT:
THE COURT:
Sure.
You bet.
BY MS. WANG:
Q.
11
correct?
12
A.
I do.
13
Q.
14
A.
I do.
15
Q.
And while you were the commander of PSB, you saw him on a
16
17
A.
18
Q.
19
A.
Yes.
20
Q.
-- on average?
21
A.
Yes.
22
Q.
Okay.
IEN
DS
10
15:31:53
15:32:01
15:32:10
23
24
A.
Yes.
25
Q.
FR
15:31:47
Thank you.
THE WITNESS:
I'm sorry.
THE WITNESS:
3146
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15:32:15
3147
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also still on the fifth floor, along with the chief deputy's
office?
A.
Yes.
Q.
A.
Yes.
Q.
A.
time.
Q.
11
12
A.
Yes.
13
Q.
14
15
A.
Yes.
16
Q.
17
18
A.
Yes.
19
Q.
20
A.
Yes.
21
Q.
22
IEN
DS
10
23
A.
Yes.
24
Q.
25
time that you left the command of PSB on August 28th of 2015,
FR
15:32:27
15:32:40
15:32:54
15:33:05
15:33:18
3148
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2
3
A.
That's correct.
Q.
And do you think it's fair to say that while you were in
A.
Q.
10
11
liked?
12
A.
13
14
15
characterize that.
16
Q.
17
techniques?
18
A.
It could have.
19
Q.
And it's true that in general, PSB was greatly taxed by the
20
21
A.
Yes.
22
Q.
Sir, when you took command of PSB, you had not had any
15:33:51
15:34:08
IEN
DS
23
24
A.
25
Q.
FR
15:33:34
15:34:21
15:34:34
3149
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A.
That's accurate.
Q.
A.
Q.
correct?
A.
10
Q.
11
12
A.
I probably did.
13
Q.
14
15
16
A.
17
Q.
18
A.
19
20
21
security walks.
22
side.
IEN
DS
15:34:59
15:35:18
15:35:31
23
sworn personnel.
24
Q.
25
FR
15:34:45
Okay.
15:35:46
3150
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A.
Yes.
Q.
And did you make the change that you would invite the PSB
information directly?
A.
Yes.
Q.
correct?
10
A.
Yes.
11
Q.
12
13
A.
14
Q.
Okay.
15
16
A.
Yes.
17
Q.
18
19
A.
Yes.
20
Q.
-- you're saying?
21
A.
Yes.
22
Q.
All right.
24
FR
25
15:36:12
DS
IEN
23
15:36:02
15:36:26
15:36:32
15:36:40
3151
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A.
Yes.
Q.
A.
That's correct.
Q.
All right.
A.
Q.
10
11
A.
That's my understanding.
12
Q.
13
14
A.
Yes.
15
Q.
All right.
16
17
18
19
A.
20
would contact PSB if it was a case that they thought PSB should
21
handle.
22
15:37:06
15:37:23
IEN
DS
15:37:42
23
24
Q.
25
FR
15:36:52
3152
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A.
Yeah.
opinion was:
Q.
A.
10
Q.
11
12
A.
13
Q.
14
complaint -- withdrawn.
But the person, the supervisor who took the complaint would
15
17
18
A.
Yes.
19
Q.
But you would rely upon the supervisor within the division
20
21
A.
Yes.
22
Q.
All right.
IEN
DS
16
you said that the -- under MCSO policy, the chief deputy and
24
FR
15:38:32
15:38:50
15:39:05
23
25
15:38:15
15:39:18
3153
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A.
I don't.
Q.
Okay.
A.
Q.
policy?
A.
Q.
All right.
Okay.
10
11
A.
Yes.
12
Q.
13
A.
14
15
16
17
18
19
Q.
20
21
22
that right?
15:39:51
IEN
23
A.
Sure.
24
Q.
25
FR
15:40:05
DS
Okay.
15:39:34
15:40:20
15:40:36
3154
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A.
Q.
A.
Yes.
Q.
Okay.
A.
Yes.
Q.
All right.
10
11
12
A.
I'm sorry?
13
Q.
14
15
A.
16
17
Q.
18
19
A.
Yes.
20
Q.
All right.
21
22
IEN
23
number?
24
A.
25
FR
15:41:06
15:41:15
DS
Right.
15:40:46
15:41:23
3155
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what numbers have been pulled, and do an audit that way to make
Q.
initiation of an IA case?
A.
Q.
Okay.
A.
Sure.
11
Q.
12
A.
That's correct.
13
Q.
So you said that one of the ways that MCSO tries to make
14
15
16
17
numbers, right?
18
A.
Yes.
19
Q.
20
21
A.
22
DS
10
15:42:16
15:42:28
15:42:42
IEN
23
number.
24
Q.
25
happening?
FR
15:41:59
And is there a way that MCSO can test to make sure that is
15:42:53
3156
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A.
of one.
Q.
Okay.
A.
Q.
A.
I do.
Q.
A.
Yes.
10
Q.
11
A.
12
Q.
13
14
subdivision, correct?
15
A.
Yes.
16
Q.
17
case, correct?
18
A.
Yes.
19
Q.
20
21
A.
22
DS
15:43:12
15:43:34
15:43:46
IEN
23
24
Q.
25
FR
15:43:04
3157
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A.
Not always.
Q.
A.
allegation.
10
Q.
Okay.
I would
15:44:36
11
12
13
or an administrative IA case?
14
A.
Yes.
15
Q.
16
chief deputy?
17
A.
Sometimes.
18
Q.
19
20
A.
21
yes.
22
Q.
DS
IEN
Okay.
24
administrative?
25
A.
Yes.
15:44:49
15:45:00
23
FR
15:44:22
15:45:18
3158
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Q.
of PSB?
A.
Yes.
Q.
6
7
is PSB involved?
A.
the computer.
10
11
investigations.
12
Q.
13
14
A.
Yes.
15
Q.
16
17
A.
18
19
Q.
20
21
A.
22
15:45:52
15:46:05
DS
15:46:23
IEN
23
24
But once they took the case, we generally did not interfere
25
FR
15:45:36
15:46:40
3159
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Q.
through IAPro?
A.
Yes.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Well, that, and the cases they generally keep aren't grave
10
11
12
Q.
13
14
ongoing IA case?
15
A.
16
17
Q.
18
A.
In our minds --
19
Q.
All right.
20
A.
21
Q.
22
A.
Okay.
DS
IEN
Q.
24
policies, correct?
25
A.
FR
23
I am.
15:47:13
Okay.
15:46:54
15:47:34
15:47:40
15:47:50
3160
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Q.
A.
17, yes.
Q.
A.
Correct.
Q.
A.
That's correct.
Q.
Okay.
10
A.
I don't.
11
Q.
Okay.
12
A.
13
Q.
All right.
15:48:09
Fair enough.
14
15
interest.
16
A.
17
lieutenants.
18
19
20
21
Q.
22
15:48:22
DS
IEN
Okay.
A.
24
25
Q.
Okay.
15:48:36
23
FR
15:47:58
15:48:49
3161
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on IA cases.
A.
No, I don't.
Q.
15:49:14
8
9
side?
10
A.
11
Q.
Okay.
12
13
14
15
A.
16
Q.
Sure.
17
hypothetical.
18
A.
Okay.
19
Q.
20
division side.
21
A.
Um-hum.
22
Q.
And it's not apparent at the outset when the civilian makes
DS
IEN
24
FR
15:49:53
23
25
15:49:26
15:50:03
15:50:16
3162
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his wrongdoing?
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
Well, once PSB was made aware of it, we would take the case
Okay.
10
11
15:50:48
12
13
A.
14
about it.
15
Q.
16
17
18
A.
19
Q.
In what instances?
20
A.
21
Q.
All right.
22
division?
IEN
DS
Okay.
23
A.
24
generally, yes.
25
Q.
FR
15:50:35
15:51:00
I'm sorry.
15:51:20
Okay.
You said just now you used the past tense, you're
15:51:28
3163
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believe that things have changed since you left command of PSB?
A.
Q.
Okay.
clear --
A.
I understand.
Q.
-- on your testimony.
15:51:48
THE CLERK:
(Handing).
THE WITNESS:
10
11
BY MS. WANG:
12
Q.
Thank you.
13
14
I do.
15
Yes.
15:52:34
16
BY MS. WANG:
17
Q.
18
19
20
Blain.
21
A.
22
Q.
2770?
IEN
DS
23
A.
I have 2070.
24
Q.
Oh, sorry.
FR
25
15:52:20
THE CLERK:
(Handing.)
15:52:58
15:53:05
THE WITNESS:
Thanks.
BY MS. WANG:
Q.
Okay.
A.
Yes.
Q.
All right.
A.
Q.
10
A.
Oh, yeah.
11
Q.
Okay.
12
13
A.
No.
14
Q.
15
A.
I don't.
16
Q.
Okay.
17
A.
18
Q.
Yes.
19
A.
20
Q.
21
A.
Oh.
22
Q.
-- read it to yourself.
FR
Yes.
Q.
15:53:47
15:54:01
DS
IEN
A.
15:54:13
I'm sorry.
24
25
15:53:27
23
3164
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Okay.
Okay.
Does it appear to you that this was an e-mail giving
15:54:37
3165
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Lieutenant Metzler?
A.
Q.
A.
I believe so.
Q.
Okay.
Or Peter Metzler?
All right.
10
12
internal investigation?
13
MR. MASTERSON:
THE COURT:
Just
11
14
15:54:58
Objection, foundation.
Sustained.
15
BY MS. WANG:
16
Q.
17
18
19
investigations?
20
A.
21
Q.
Okay.
22
Were there any rules in effect at the time you were a commander
IEN
DS
15:55:46
15:56:01
23
24
25
A.
FR
15:55:32
15:56:19
3166
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Q.
A.
All right.
But
10
thing.
11
Q.
12
13
14
15
A.
Yes.
16
Q.
17
18
A.
Yes.
19
Q.
20
21
discipline, correct?
22
A.
Or a preliminary
DS
All right.
15:56:54
15:57:14
15:57:23
IEN
Yes.
23
Q.
24
A.
Yes.
25
Q.
FR
15:56:36
15:57:31
3167
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A.
Yes.
Q.
All right.
A.
That's true.
Q.
A.
That's correct.
Q.
A.
Correct.
10
Q.
And the same -- and, sir, are you aware -- let me put it
11
this way:
12
13
14
right?
15
A.
16
17
18
Q.
19
That's correct.
Okay.
22
IEN
23
"Answer:
24
FR
A.
15:58:00
15:58:17
21
25
15:57:44
DS
20
I see that.
15:58:55
15:59:16
3168
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Q.
Okay.
A.
When I say "I don't believe so," I don't know that process
Q.
testimony now?
A.
I believe so.
Q.
Okay.
Okay.
10
11
12
that right?
13
A.
14
15
16
Q.
17
18
A.
That's right.
19
Q.
All right.
20
21
investigation?
22
A.
15:59:50
16:00:06
DS
16:00:23
IEN
That's true.
23
Q.
24
25
FR
15:59:41
16:00:38
3169
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A.
investigation.
Q.
about that.
All right.
That is
16:01:01
6
7
A.
10
11
Okay.
Exhibit 2001.
MR. MASTERSON:
12
MR. WALKER:
13
MR. COMO:
14
No objection.
No objection.
No objection.
THE COURT:
15
2001 is admitted.
BY MS. WANG:
18
Q.
19
A.
What number?
20
Q.
2881.
DS
17
I'm sorry.
16:02:17
A.
Give me a second.
IEN
22
23
Q.
24
A.
I do.
Okay.
25
Q.
Okay.
FR
16:02:02
16
21
16:01:48
16:03:14
2
3
along?
4
5
3170
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Let's go to --
THE COURT:
You may.
MS. WANG:
All right.
16:03:29
6
7
BY MS. WANG:
Q.
Okay, Captain.
10
"Procedural complaints:
11
12
13
14
supervisor.
15
16
16:04:09
17
18
A.
Yes.
19
Q.
Okay.
20
21
A.
22
Q.
Okay.
IEN
DS
16:04:20
23
handled, correct?
24
A.
25
Q.
Okay.
FR
16:03:48
16:04:33
3171
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A.
Q.
Okay.
correct?
A.
10
Q.
11
12
13
14
15
A.
16
Q.
Okay.
17
a procedural complaint?
18
A.
Yes.
19
Q.
20
question I had.
21
22
A.
16:05:17
16:05:37
DS
Okay.
16:05:55
IEN
Yes.
23
Q.
24
here.
25
A.
FR
16:05:01
I do.
16:06:15
3172
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M
Q.
Or
A.
Q.
All right.
A.
Correct.
Q.
A.
I don't.
Q.
10
11
A.
I don't.
12
Q.
13
14
A.
Yes.
15
Q.
Okay.
16
17
18
A.
Yes.
19
Q.
Okay.
20
conducted when the first party agrees with the complaint or the
21
22
A.
16:07:09
16:07:26
IEN
23
Q.
24
25
FR
16:06:49
DS
16:06:28
16:07:47
3173
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deportation proceedings?
3
4
A.
No.
Q.
Okay.
coming forward?
A.
10
Q.
Right.
11
A.
12
Q.
Okay.
13
A.
14
15
Q.
16
read that into GH-2, that they should still investigate, even
17
18
the first party agrees with the complaint or the first party
19
cannot be contacted"?
20
A.
21
Q.
22
what it says.
IEN
16:08:29
16:08:50
24
25
A.
FR
16:08:00
23
Okay.
Where
16:08:13
DS
Okay.
I don't
I'm afraid.
16:09:08
3174
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Q.
A.
Q.
correct?
A.
16:09:30
BY MS. WANG:
10
Q.
11
A.
Out loud?
12
Q.
13
14
A.
15
MS. WANG:
16
THE COURT:
17
18
16:09:40
16:09:52
Okay.
I mean, you
19
21
22
BY MS. WANG:
IEN
DS
20
Q.
24
25
FR
23
All right.
16:10:01
16:10:17
3175
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A.
Q.
A.
Q.
Okay.
begins:
Okay.
My question is:
9
10
A.
Yes.
11
Q.
12
13
16:11:04
14
15
A.
Yes.
16
Q.
17
16:11:16
18
A.
Yes.
20
Q.
21
action?
22
A.
DS
19
16:11:27
IEN
23
Q.
24
separately?
25
A.
FR
16:10:36
Okay.
Correct.
16:11:41
3176
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Q.
A.
Yes.
Q.
A.
Q.
Okay.
A.
10
Q.
Okay.
11
A.
12
13
Q.
14
15
All right.
So my question is this:
16
16:12:05
16:12:21
There's
17
18
A.
Um-hum.
19
Q.
Okay.
20
A.
Yes.
21
Q.
22
DS
IEN
23
16:13:13
24
A.
I do.
25
Q.
FR
16:12:51
16:13:26
3177
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correct?
A.
Yes.
Q.
A.
Q.
10
11
rudeness complaints?
12
A.
13
Q.
Okay.
14
15
16
A.
17
18
19
Q.
20
21
22
categorized it?
16:14:18
16:14:36
We all took classes that we're clear about what that was.
IEN
DS
23
A.
24
Q.
Okay.
25
FR
16:13:53
16:14:56
This
16:15:25
3178
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3
4
A.
I do.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
I don't.
10
Q.
In paragraph 3 on page 4?
11
A.
No.
12
Q.
Okay.
13
14
15
phone or in person.
16:15:57
16:16:23
16
A.
I do.
18
Q.
19
20
A.
21
Q.
Does GH-2 cover the situation where the deputy who's being
22
IEN
DS
17
23
A.
24
25
FR
16:15:39
No.
16:16:46
16:17:04
3179
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Q.
Okay.
The
4
5
A.
Where is it?
Yes.
Q.
Okay.
form?
A.
Q.
16:17:24
10
investigate it?
11
A.
12
Q.
Okay.
13
16:17:49
Take a look at
14
15
16
A.
Yes.
17
Q.
Okay.
18
19
DS
20
A.
Yes.
22
Q.
IEN
21
23
24
A.
25
Q.
Okay.
FR
16:18:24
16:18:40
16:18:56
3180
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A.
Q.
Turn to page 9.
correct?
A.
Yes.
Q.
allegation.
16:19:25
10
A.
Yes.
11
Q.
12
that:
13
14
investigation"?
15
A.
Yes.
16
Q.
17
the fact that the principal can present new evidence at that
18
stage.
19
A.
I do.
20
Q.
21
22
16:19:39
16:19:52
IEN
DS
A.
24
Q.
Okay.
25
FR
23
16:20:05
3181
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A.
Q.
Okay.
5
6
the IA investigator?
9
10
A.
11
Q.
12
13
14
15
that evidence?
16
A.
17
investigation.
18
Q.
19
A.
20
Q.
Right.
21
22
A.
16:21:06
16:21:29
DS
16:21:40
IEN
23
Q.
24
25
FR
16:20:48
Right.
16:21:59
3182
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A.
Q.
Correct.
A.
No.
Q.
A.
No.
Q.
A.
10
Q.
Right.
11
A.
12
Q.
13
14
A.
Yes.
15
Q.
16
purpose?
17
A.
No.
18
Q.
When you were PSB commander, did you begin the task of
19
20
21
A.
Yes.
22
Q.
IEN
DS
24
A.
It was not.
25
Q.
FR
23
16:22:10
16:22:33
16:22:45
16:22:59
16:23:08
3183
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A.
Q.
A.
Yes.
Q.
Okay.
in place?
A.
process is.
16:23:27
I don't know.
10
Q.
11
A.
No.
12
Q.
13
14
15
A.
16
Chief Lopez, when he would read those cases, would check for
17
that.
18
Q.
19
20
A.
21
Q.
And the PSB commander also signs off -- has to sign off on
22
those findings?
16:24:01
IEN
DS
23
A.
24
Q.
Okay.
25
division cases?
FR
16:23:33
16:24:17
3184
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A.
Q.
is not involved?
A.
Typically, no.
Q.
discipline?
A.
10
Q.
11
cases?
12
A.
13
administrative side.
14
Q.
15
right?
16
A.
17
Q.
18
19
A.
20
in.
21
Q.
22
All right.
16:25:02
16:25:19
DS
IEN
Okay.
16:25:39
23
A.
24
Q.
25
A.
I'm sure.
FR
16:24:45
16:25:55
3185
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Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
No.
Q.
I read them.
16:26:07
That
10
11
12
interviews.
13
A.
I do.
14
Q.
15
A.
16
Q.
17
18
complainant, correct?
19
A.
It could.
20
Q.
21
22
A.
24
FR
25
DS
Q.
16:26:50
16:27:06
Witness, correct.
IEN
23
16:26:33
16:27:24
3186
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A.
Correct.
Q.
A.
Correct.
Q.
their interview?
16:27:36
MR. MASTERSON:
THE COURT:
10
Overruled.
THE WITNESS:
11
16:27:53
12
13
BY MS. WANG:
14
Q.
15
16
17
Garrity warning.
18
19
20
A.
Yes, it could.
21
Q.
22
operational manual.
IEN
DS
All right.
16:28:24
23
A.
I do.
24
Q.
Okay.
25
FR
16:28:05
A.
Q.
Okay.
A.
It appears to be.
MS. WANG:
5
6
3187
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Okay.
10
The
11
witness said this was a draft, and this was the form in which
12
13
THE COURT:
14
MS. WANG:
15
16
16:30:02
Relevance.
Sure.
16:30:17
admission.
THE COURT:
17
Um-hum.
18
BY MS. WANG:
19
Q.
20
commander of PSB?
21
A.
22
Q.
All right.
IEN
DS
Well, Captain, was this draft developed while you were the
16:30:29
23
A.
24
other cases.
25
FR
16:29:40
3188
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Q.
Okay.
now?
A.
I don't know.
Q.
Okay.
manual?
A.
10
11
12
13
Q.
14
15
A.
No.
16
Q.
17
done?
18
A.
19
20
21
22
16:31:34
IEN
DS
Q.
24
FR
16:31:14
23
25
16:30:58
16:31:47
16:32:17
3189
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A.
Q.
Okay.
A.
Q.
Yeah.
A.
Q.
Yeah.
10
11
A.
Yes.
12
Q.
All right.
13
16:32:54
14
15
techniques.
16
A.
I do not.
17
Q.
18
19
A.
20
core set of classes that the investigators could have all gone
21
22
PSB.
16:33:20
IEN
DS
23
Q.
24
correct?
25
A.
FR
16:32:37
16:33:35
And that did not happen while you were commander of PSB,
It did not.
16:33:53
3190
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Q.
A.
Q.
Right.
It indicates that
8
9
A.
Yes.
10
Q.
11
12
A.
13
14
Q.
15
correct?
16
A.
Yes.
17
Q.
18
19
A.
No.
20
Q.
Some
16:34:49
of you.
16:35:20
23
24
A.
2820.
25
Q.
FR
16:34:33
IEN
22
DS
21
16:34:13
16:36:20
3191
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A.
Okay.
Q.
Sir, I'm going to change gears now and ask you about an
A.
Yes.
Q.
A.
Yes.
10
Q.
11
A.
Yes.
12
Q.
13
14
correct?
15
A.
Yes.
16
Q.
17
18
right?
19
A.
Yes.
20
Q.
21
22
A.
DS
16:37:11
16:37:30
16:37:41
IEN
I did.
23
Q.
24
25
A.
FR
16:37:00
Yes.
16:37:59
3192
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Q.
investigator, correct?
A.
investigator.
Q.
that year and more, did you develop a view that there were
A.
Yes.
10
Q.
And that view was based not only on the one case regarding
11
12
13
A.
14
Q.
15
16
A.
Oh, yes.
17
Q.
And your view that there were -- is your view that there
18
19
A.
Yes.
20
Q.
21
aberration, correct?
22
A.
DS
Okay.
16:38:13
16:38:57
16:39:07
IEN
23
Q.
24
25
FR
16:38:31
16:40:03
3193
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A.
Yes.
Q.
And did you reach the conclusion that there were problems
A.
Yes.
Q.
A.
Q.
Right.
10
12
A.
Yes.
13
Q.
All right.
14
not the only deputy who was problematic and who was permitted
15
16
A.
In HSU?
17
Q.
Correct.
18
A.
19
issues --
20
Q.
Okay.
21
A.
22
Q.
IEN
DS
11
16:41:11
16:41:21
24
of command?
25
A.
FR
16:40:40
23
Yes.
16:40:18
16:41:32
3194
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Q.
the time that you were PSB commander, that Charley Armendariz
A.
That's correct.
Q.
A.
16:41:50
10
Q.
Okay.
11
A.
I do.
12
Q.
Okay.
13
14
15
A.
Yes.
MR. WALKER:
DS
MR. COMO:
THE COURT:
23
BY MS. WANG:
24
Q.
25
gave it to you?
FR
No objection.
No objection.
No objection.
16:43:35
IEN
22
MR. MASTERSON:
19
21
16:43:25
Exhibit 2760.
18
20
16:42:17
MS. WANG:
16
17
Sir, you reviewed the memo at the time that Sergeant Fax
16:43:45
3195
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A.
Yes.
Q.
A.
Yes.
Q.
A.
Yes.
Q.
10
A.
11
THE WITNESS:
12
THE COURT:
13
Okay.
Sure.
15
16
investigated.
17
18
19
BY MS. WANG:
20
Q.
21
22
correct?
IEN
23
A.
Correct.
24
Q.
Would you agree with me that those are all tools that MCSO
25
FR
16:44:31
DS
Okay.
16:44:19
THE WITNESS:
14
16:43:57
16:44:45
16:45:06
3196
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A.
True.
Q.
But would you also agree with me that the value or the
A.
Q.
16:45:19
Are you aware that some of the principals in the 542 case,
10
11
12
13
policy violation?
14
15
A.
16
17
complaints.
18
Q.
19
20
a policy violation?
21
A.
22
Q.
Okay.
16:46:02
IEN
DS
And you don't recall that any of them made statements that
16:46:20
23
24
25
Exhibit 2760?
FR
16:45:45
16:46:41
MR. MASTERSON:
THE COURT:
Objection, relevance.
Overruled.
THE WITNESS:
3197
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sorry.
BY MS. WANG:
Q.
Sure.
I'm
16:46:53
10
11
A.
12
13
just plain simply policy violations, and some were just his
14
15
Charley
16:47:43
16
17
Q.
18
19
20
16:48:14
IEN
22
Sure.
DS
21
23
said:
24
25
FR
16:47:13
3198
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2
3
A.
Sure.
Q.
A.
Charley.
At
10
Q.
11
12
13
number issued.
And let's
16:49:13
14
15
A.
I do.
16
Q.
All right.
17
18
19
A.
Yes.
20
Q.
21
A.
It does appear.
22
Q.
All right.
16:49:41
DS
IEN
23
MS. WANG:
24
Exhibit 2790.
25
manual.
FR
16:48:53
16:49:56
3199
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THE COURT:
MS. WANG:
Yes.
The witness has indicated that it was a draft, but for the
limited purpose of showing what his testimony was, and with the
MR. MASTERSON:
THE COURT:
8
9
Objection, relevance.
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
BY MS. WANG:
17
Q.
16:50:49
All right.
16:51:03
18
20
21
A.
Correct.
22
Q.
IEN
DS
19
23
24
A.
That's correct.
25
Q.
FR
16:50:32
16:51:20
16:51:35
3200
OF
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on that matter?
A.
Yes.
Q.
All right.
A.
Q.
Okay.
A.
10
Q.
Okay.
11
12
home, correct?
13
A.
Yes.
14
Q.
15
A.
Yes.
16
Q.
17
A.
I believe so.
18
Q.
19
20
A.
Yes.
21
Q.
22
DS
IEN
16:52:01
23
Armendariz?
24
A.
25
the transcript.
FR
16:52:31
16:52:49
16:52:58
I read most of
16:53:12
3201
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Q.
Okay.
A.
Q.
Okay.
A.
specifically.
Q.
All right.
10
11
investigated?
12
A.
I don't.
13
Q.
14
A.
I'm not saying it didn't happen; I'm just not aware of it.
15
Q.
Okay.
16
17
A.
Yes.
18
Q.
19
occurred?
20
A.
Potentially.
21
Q.
All right.
22
IEN
DS
16:53:43
16:54:01
16:54:24
23
24
A.
Yes.
25
Q.
FR
16:53:28
16:54:42
3202
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A.
Yes.
Q.
commander?
A.
Yes.
Q.
by HSU, correct?
A.
Potentially, yes.
10
Q.
All right.
11
12
13
A.
14
Q.
15
A.
Yes.
16
Q.
By someone in HSU.
17
A.
Yes.
18
Q.
19
20
that $260 cash was seized, but that there was no cash in that
21
envelope?
22
A.
16:54:58
DS
16:55:28
16:55:43
IEN
Yes.
23
Q.
24
A.
Yes.
25
Q.
Okay.
FR
16:55:07
16:55:52
3203
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correct?
A.
Potentially, yes.
Q.
And are you also aware that there was at least one IA case,
that a driver declared he had on him and the amount that was --
A.
Yes.
Q.
10
A.
Could be.
11
Q.
All right.
16:56:30
MS. WANG:
12
if it's in evidence.
14
BY MS. WANG:
15
Q.
16
A.
Yes.
17
Q.
18
19
20
A.
Yes.
21
Q.
Okay.
22
A.
I believe so.
IEN
DS
13
16:57:15
16:57:44
23
Q.
24
25
FR
Okay.
16:56:11
16:58:10
3204
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A.
Yes.
Q.
So take your time and review it, and let me know if this
5
6
A.
Yes.
least initial it, but it could have been a document that was
10
Q.
11
here.
12
MELC006122.
13
A.
Yes.
14
Q.
15
deputies.
Okay.
16:59:36
16:59:49
16
18
19
20
A.
21
Q.
Okay.
22
A.
-- yes.
IEN
DS
17
23
Q.
24
25
right?
FR
16:59:22
17:00:17
17:00:33
3205
OF
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A.
Yes.
Q.
that right?
A.
paper here.
Q.
Oh, okay.
A.
10
Q.
All right.
11
12
13
A.
14
Q.
15
16
A.
I would think.
17
Q.
Okay.
23
17:01:22
DS
Ms. Wang?
Yes.
17:01:32
5 o'clock.
MS. WANG:
I will
resume tomorrow.
24
THE COURT:
25
MS. WANG:
FR
17:01:02
THE COURT:
IEN
22
MS. WANG:
19
21
THE COURT:
18
20
17:00:50
17:01:45
THE COURT:
1
2
THE WITNESS:
MS. WANG:
4
5
pretrial statement?
THE COURT:
17:01:54
THE COURT:
9
10
All right.
3206
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Okay.
(Pause in proceedings.)
11
THE COURT:
12
13
14
15
16
see why 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 12, 14, 16, 18, 21, 22, 25, 26, and 30
17
18
that I have not noticed every nonparty contemnor for every act
19
of contempt.
20
21
22
DS
IEN
24
MR. MASTERSON:
FR
17:04:36
23
25
17:02:09
17:05:09
17:05:27
3207
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All right.
Thank you.
3
4
5
MS. WANG:
Not at all.
THE COURT:
All right.
10
17:06:04
11
12
get into the 287(g) program, to the extent you've listed that
13
under Chief Deputy Sheridan, unless you can tell me why it's
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
three hours -- I'll let you have three hours that you've asked
21
for if, in fact, you are going to call him, not inviting you to
22
use it.
24
FR
25
17:06:18
DS
IEN
23
17:05:38
One hour?
17:06:36
That seems
to me to be reasonable.
Are we going to recall Bailey?
I think you've
17:06:55
3208
OF
TH
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THE COURT:
Okay.
do that.
give you more leeway on cross, and then we can go back and
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THE COURT:
All right.
MS. WANG:
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If we
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THE COURT:
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And so my
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that way?
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time, Judge.
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All right.
Any objection to that by anybody else?
No, Your Honor.
No objection, Your Honor.
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THE COURT:
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THE COURT:
Yes, Judge.
Fax.
issue here.
you to hold it to less than that, but if you use your time and
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MR. MASTERSON:
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THE COURT:
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Skinner.
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Yes.
All right.
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director of Internal Affairs for three weeks and you want three
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hours of testimony?
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MR. MASTERSON:
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And I'll tell you what we're going to do is we're going to sit
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down -- we have a few days off after this week, and we're going
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Tuesday.
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are going to have to depose the ones that you don't withdraw,
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right?
MR. MASTERSON:
Exactly.
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All right.
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don't really know that you need three hours for that.
that?
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MR. MASTERSON:
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gab.
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THE COURT:
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Don't
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I will.
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once?
MR. MASTERSON:
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THE COURT:
MR. MASTERSON:
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MR. MASTERSON:
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from plaintiffs.
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heard between the time the sheriff testified and the close of
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THE COURT:
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All right.
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hour on Liddy.
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One
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some cross.
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do him once.
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Okay.
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If you need more, you can tell me, if you really need more and
explain why.
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bullpen.
plaintiffs?
MS. WANG:
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six hours total for Bailey, so we've got a little over four
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left, I think.
THE COURT:
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MS. WANG:
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90.
hours.
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earlier.
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Zullo is two
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90 minutes.
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would like to put in the CAD data, the raw CAD data I was
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MR. SEGURA:
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Yes.
MS. WANG:
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All right.
So if we're going to do a
little bit more than four hours with Bailey tomorrow, we should
with tomorrow.
Mr. Vogel.
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So we
I think
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Captain Bailey and his counsel may have some issues with it,
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MR. MASTERSON:
counsel as well.
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opposed to me.
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THE COURT:
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MR. MASTERSON:
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Captain Bailey's
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Any objection?
MR. MASTERSON:
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Okay.
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Judge.
THE COURT:
Mr. Mitchell.
MR. MITCHELL:
THE COURT:
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Thank you.
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duties.
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It's
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MR. MITCHELL:
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Of my direct examination.
MR. MITCHELL:
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Yeah.
allow Vogel to go in, just so that we can get him in, with all
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So
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start him about 11:00, and then if we need to take him a half
he can do that.
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up, I'll let you go tonight, I don't want to take forever, but
and a half days after that at most, and probably not even that.
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Is that correct?
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you know, what I would like to do is have you consider and plan
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out the days in light of what I've just done, and maybe we can
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And as
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talk about about it early tomorrow, tell me what days you think
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only what days I have, but to contemplate with the parties how
I think I'd like to take about two days and look over
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I don't want.
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witnesses and days, so that I can tell you I want this many
days, and then we'll have you appear to sort of do your oral
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So why
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among yourselves?
MS. WANG:
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our own case, and then get together and try to suss out
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cross-examination time.
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Mr. Masterson.
MR. MASTERSON:
All right.
But I
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then.
MR. COMO:
THE COURT:
MR. WALKER:
THE COURT:
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Mr. Walker?
17:20:47
All right.
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C E R T I F I C A T E
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2015.
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s/Gary Moll