MINISTER FOR DEFENCE

LEADER OF THE GOVERNMENT IN THE SENATE

SENATOR THE HON. ROBERT HILL

TRANSCRIPT
ABC Radio AM
Interview with Matt Brown
Thursday, 7 November 2002
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JOURNALIST:
Robert Hill how would you describe Australia’s relationship with Indonesia right now?
SENATOR ROBERT HILL:
Well it’s a good relationship and we’re very pleased with the cooperation we’re
getting through the joint task force in tracking down the perpetrators of the atrocity in
Bali. We recognise how difficult it is for the Indonesian Government at the moment in
terms of not just terrorism which is severely affecting Indonesia, but its economic
difficulties and its political process of political change and so forth.
JOURNALIST:
It’s not a relationship under pressure given these statement from the President and
from her representative in Australia?
SENATOR ROBERT HILL:
Well that’s not how I would describe it. Indonesia – the Indonesian Government
needs support in both tackling the issues of terrorism and the others that it faces that
are significant.
JOURNALIST:
And what fears does the Australian government now have about a threat to
Australians during this period of Ramadan?
SENATOR ROBERT HILL:
Well the Department of Foreign Affairs has further upgraded its warnings during
Ramadan. And they are professional objective advisers to the public on this matter
and their warnings obviously should be taken seriously.
JOURNALIST:
And what could happen? What’s the fear?
SENATOR ROBERT HILL:
Well you can read it as well as I can. But there is a concern about the possibility of
sweeping operations against Australians by militant Islamists. But I think that we’ve
got to stress that that is a warning that’s got to be taken seriously but that’s not an
indictment of the relationship between Australia and Indonesia.
JOURNALIST:
If we’re to take that warning seriously, how seriously do you take the warning from
Indonesia’s most senior diplomat in Australia that anger in Indonesia over the ASIO
raids may jeopardise that crucial cooperation we’ve been getting in the Bali bombing
investigation?
SENATOR ROBERT HILL:
Well I haven’t seen any sign of that. As I said, the investigation is proceeding and
Australia’s pleased with the cooperation and support we’re getting from the
Indonesian government.
JOURNALIST:
But what he’s been saying, fresh from his visit to Jakarta, is that public anger, the
kind of public anger that’s led our government to raise travel warnings about the
Ramadan period, could cause the government in Indonesia to have to reconsider the
strength of that cooperation.
SENATOR ROBERT HILL:
I haven’t seen any sign of that. I think the Indonesian government is aware of the
consequences and the listing of Jamaah Islamiyah, of the Security Council resolution
and our domestic legislation….
JOURNALIST:
But they keep saying we’ve been too heavy handed in investigating links with
Jamaah Islamiyah though. They persist in saying that.
SENATOR ROBERT HILL:
Well I don’t know that that’s correct. As I said. All of my…..
JOURNALIST:
Well they said it yesterday.
SENATOR ROBERT HILL:
…. all of my information. Well you’re asking me. All of my information is that the
Indonesian government recognises our right to protect ourselves internally and JI has
been listed as a terrorist organisation.
JOURNALIST:
They do recognise that and they say that the manner that that protection internally
has been undertaken has been heavy handed.
SENATOR ROBERT HILL:
First of all, we are entitled to protect our interests domestically and the government of
Indonesia understands and respects that.

JOURNALIST:
Indonesia’s Charge d’Affairs also rejected a suggestion from you that the SAS,
Australian Soldiers could go into Indonesia on joint operations against terrorists.
SENATOR ROBERT HILL:
Well I’m not sure that I actually put it in those terms. What I’ve said is that we must
work cooperatively with countries in south east Asia to address head on the issue of
terrorism.
JOURNALIST:
And you said that in response to a question about the SAS going into Indonesia on
joint operations.
SENATOR ROBERT HILL:
Well we don’t have – that’s with Kopassus. We don’t have a working relationship
with Kopassus at the moment and we certainly haven’t received any invitation to
engage in joint operations.
JOURNALIST:
But what is being discussed with Indonesia in terms of military to military activity?
SENATOR ROBERT HILL:
Well we’re seeking to rebuild our defence relationship post East Timor because we
believe that’s in Australia’s national interest. TNI is an important institution within
Indonesia. It’s an institution with which we can work constructively in our mutual
interests.
JOURNALIST:
You met with Singapore’s Defence Minister overnight. What did you discuss in terms
of Indonesia?
SENATOR ROBERT HILL:
Well we both understand the extent of the challenge in Indonesia. We both want to
work cooperatively with the Indonesian government in helping it address that
challenge. That’s in the interests of Australia, it’s in the interests of Singapore and
it’s in the interests of Indonesia.
JOURNALIST:
Meanwhile the US Deputy Secretary of Defence Paul Wolfowitz has said that the
Indonesian government should quote “stop being in denial and stop pretending
there’s no terrorist problem”. Is that a concern that you share?
SENATOR ROBERT HILL:
Well we have said in the past that we would have wished to see Indonesia act more
robustly in relation to the terrorist threat. But at least since the 12 th of October there
is an acknowledgement of that threat within Indonesia and it is acting cooperatively
with us to track down the killers and it does, through a number of different indicators,
appear to be taking the issue more seriously.

JOURNALIST:
Robert Hill thanks for joining AM.
SENATOR ROBERT HILL:
Thank you.

ENDS