SummingUp.txt Question's for Paul Roberts, Re J his son by right of birth.

[I've tidied up and I hope improved this a bit. It's far too long but there's still less than there needs to be. My comments are obviously the bits in brackets along with Paul's expected answers. If anything is obscure or wrong I'll help if I can. Paul is both smarter and more nervous than he appears. If he can relax and open up a little but not try to tell everything at once he will make an excellent witness, honest to a fault. The overall strategy is to both wind up Judge Orrell as far as we can get away with and at the same time to persuade him that Staordshire are making a fool of him, wasting his time and putting any judgement he makes on their behalf at risk of appeal because they have not followed procedure and don't really have a case at all. If he is suciently wound up to actually look at the evidence and the process he may decide he doesn't want to be associated with such a bunch of cowboys and throw their case out. Essentially we're appealing to his self importance and fussyness as those seem to be dominant. It's a slim hope but it's possible.]

Qs. Had you ever met Ms Hassle ( Senior social worker who gave evidence last time ) before the last hearing? [never introduced, only seen her at court] What level of involvement has she had with your family up to this point? [none] Ms Hassle testied that you have self harmed. What evidence of this claim have Stas presented to this court beside Ms Hassle's opinion? [none] Have you in fact ever self harmed? [no, don't mention the overdose 20+ years ago it's not relevant ]

Ms Hassle testied that Paul Livock wrote that there was domestic violence in your home. Who were Paul Livock's sources for this information? [ Paul and Asha themselves ] Did Paul Livock get any evidence of domestic violence from anyone else, police, Social Services or anyone at all? [no] So If Paul Livock based everything he wrote on what he says, you said and Ms Hassle's evidence was what she sais, he said, you said. Is that evidence more or less credible than your testimony here today? [ less ] Do you know what the politcially correct, common pupose approved, replacement for the term 'Chinese whispers' is? [no] <I don't either, I must have missed that course so I'll use the term. It seems that we have a case of Chinese whispers> So where is Paul Livock to stand up his claims about what you said? [ not here ] <Ask judge to strike o Paul Livock's 'evidence' on the basis that it has been contradicted by two witnesses, Paul and Asha. He is either 'mistaken' or a fantacist> Page 1

SummingUp.txt Have Stas presented any other evidence of domestic violence apart from Mr Livock's discredited account? [no] So do Stas have any evidence to stand up any claim of domestic violence on your part or Asha's [no]

Ms Hassle also claimed that you were not taking part constructively in contact sessions. Has she attended any session at which you were present? [no] Is there anyone in court today other than Asha who has witnessed your conduct at contact? [probably no] So is Asha happy with your conduct at contact given that she's the only person here with any authority to comment? [yes]

Ms Hassle claimed that you 'threatened to burn down social services and kill a social worker'? What was the basis for this accusation? [ a facebook comment by someone else ] Did you infact threaten to burn down social services and kill a social worker? [ no ] Have staordshire at any point in this process presented any rst hand evidence of you threatening anyone? [no] The closest they've got was you saying that if they snatched Willow at birth then 'blood would be spilled'. Isn't it the case that blood was spilt, Asha's was left bleeding and in need of stitches in the maternity ward while Staordshire plotted to unlawfully sieze your newborn baby? [expect a long answer, try to keep Paul as short as possible as we'll come back to this later ]

This is not the only incident of other people comments being blamed on you is it. Did staordhire's lawyers recently commit perjury, by attributing someone else's facebook comments to you in evidence to Junge Munby. [yes] Did this submission go unchallenged because you were, not by your own choice, given no opportunity for representation at this hearing? [yes] Were these comments, presented to Judge Munby as your words, previously investigated by the police and found not be your words? [yes] Was that investigation instigated by Staordshire's legal team? [yes] So they should have been aware that the comments were not yours and the police report saying so should be in section J of the bundle? [yes]

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SummingUp.txt Ms Hassle claimed that you suer from mental illness although she didn't specify what mental illness. What evidence have Stas put before the court that you suer from any mental illness other than Ms Hassle's opinion? [ no credible evidence ] Do you in fact suer from any mental illness? [ no ] Have you had this independently conrmed by anyone more qualied than Ms Hassle? [ yes ] [South Stas and Shropshire Healthcare. Letter presented to Judge Orrell at last hearing.]

Ms Hassle claimed that your attitude was due to paranoia. Is it paranoia if they are in fact out to get you? [no] I mean it's not as if Staordshire are keeping secret documents about you containing malicious falsehoods, are they? [rhetorical question but yes] At the hearing in May Michael O'Conner testied that a document exists within Staordhire Social Services ammounting to a risk assessment focussed on you. The risk you apparently pose to social workers. Mr O'Conner used the apparent fear inspired in him by this document as his feeble excuse for failing to have ever visited the Roberts home before turning up mob handed to take Jack. Have you seen that risk assessment? [no] Did you request Judge Williscroft to order the disclosure of that document to you? [yes] Did she make such an order? [No] Did she in fact refuse to make any ruling on the matter while at the same time agreeing with Stas to withold the document from you? [yes] Did she give any reason for refusing to even request that Staorshire comply with the law? [no] Did your Mckenzie friend at the time oer that they could redact whatever they were afraid to reveal from the document before producing it [yes, Paul probably doesn't remeber this] If this risk assessment does in fact contain such terrible things about you that social workers are apparently afraid to come to your at alone wouldn't it make sense for Stas to have presented that evidence to this court? [yes] Why do you think they have hidden this supposed evidence which should have helped their case that you are some kind of monster? [because it's a pack of lies]

At the hearing in May did you question the validity of the EPO under which Jack was taken? [yes] Did Judge Williscroft examine or enquire about how, when, where or on what evidence the EPO was obtained? [no] Page 3

SummingUp.txt Was the evidence on which the EPO was based presented at this hearing? [no] Was there any record at the time of a valid EPO application process taking place? [no] Was Michael O'Conner aware of who, how, when or where the EPO was obtained. [no] At the time Jack was taken were Social Services already preparing to have Jack adopted? [yes] So were you invited to the pre-birht case conference where this was decided? [no] Had they contacted anyone in your family about possible placement with a family member. [no] Have they done so now. [not as of 19/11/2013] Did you put family members names forward for them to contact? [yes in evidence at the hearing in May, They'll be in the transcript ] < We want Judge Orrell to take an interest in the transcript because it will show Williscroft was incompetant and admitted that there was no evidence on which to base her judgement >

[Jack was born on 4th April.] At the May hearing was the video you had made of Jack being taken presented as evidence? [yes but by Staordshire's lawyers] Did judge Williscroft view the video ? [no] Was she fully aware of its contents or did she just take Staordshire's word for the content? [ she took staordshire word that it was evidence on their behalf ] Does the video in fact back their case that you are a violent, dangerous, paranoid, mentally ill, high risk, parent? [no]

It is apparent from the video that Social Services were proceeded by a very large policeman who is front and centre in much of the footage. Apart from breaking and entering, assisting in the unlawfaul abduction of a child, failing to report a crime in progress, failing to do his duty and failing to keep the peace did he achieve anything by being there? Was he needed? [no] So then according to the policy of Staordshire police he must been there either to commit or fail to prevent one of the oormentioned crimes because Staordshire police don't get involved unless a crime has been or is being committed do they? [no, and we have the letter to prove it ] [Police letter] So which of the crimes commited that day should the large policeman in the video be disciplined for failing to report or prevent? [all of them] Page 4

SummingUp.txt

Did judge Williscroft take into account Asha's right to breastfeed or Jack's right to be breastfed when making her judgement about contact? [no] [Judge Munby's opinion on the rights of breastfeeding children] When did you become aware that Staordshire had applied for an EPO under which to sieze Jack? [when they started banging on the door] Have staordshire at any point in this process produced anyone compentant to testify to how the EPO was obtained? [no] Do you believe the EPO was legally and correctly obtained? [no] ["An EPO, summarily removing a child from his parent, is a 'draconian' and 'extrmemely harsh' measure, requiring 'exceptional justication' and 'extraordinarily compelling reasons'. Such an order should not be made unless the FPC is satised that it is both necessary and proportionate and that no other less radical form of order will achieve the essential end of promoting the welfare of the child. Separation is only to be contemplated if immediate separation is essential to secure the child'd safety: 'imminent danger' must be 'actually established'."] Is it possible that Judge Munby's instructions on obtaining an EPO were followed somewhere by someone even though they didn't tell you about it? [no] Did you have reason to suspect that the EPO in this case might have been improperly obtained or invalid? [yes because it was invalid in Willow's case] [ proof is non-court stamped forgery, photo on Paul's facebook] [This takes us back to Willow's case on which Judge Williscroft exclusively based her ICO after admitting, reluctantly, that there was no new evidence.] Was Willow's case heard by Judge Watson? [yes] Was there any thing from Willow's case which would justify the risk of immidiate harm that Judge Munby says is required to get an EPO for Jack? [no] So Judge Williscroft based her ICO solely on an expired order which was itself improperly obtained, with insucient evidence and without due process, your were not represented, nor was the evidence made available to you. There was no immediate risk of harm nor even a claim of such though any claim would have been baseless, the only risk to Jack at that time coming from the mob besieging your at with intent to abduct him? [yes] Do you on this basis feel justed in claiming that Jack was kidnapped, given that he was illegally removed without proper process. [yes] Did you have reason to fear that this would happen? [yes because of the way Willow was abducted ] In Willow's case was the EPO properly obtained? [no it wasn't even stamped by the court ] Page 5

SummingUp.txt Have you ever managed to identify those JP's who signed the EPO in Jack's case or in Willows? [no] Were Judge Munby's instructions about obtaining an EPO followed in Willow's case. [no] Were you allowed to present the evidence from the pre-birth case conference in Willow's case in court? [no, mislead by lawyer ] [evidence - Policy of service users recording meetings ] Were you injuncted or restricted in any other way during Willow's case? [yes, Pau will describe an incident of blackmail by The judge ] Was that Judge Watson? [ No that was Judge Orrell ][ Expect to get thrown out about here, by now Orrel will either be purple with rage or so asleep he'll miss it.]

So was Willow kidnapped from your home in the same way as Jack. [ no ] Was she taken by a social worker? [ No midwife, expect Paul to go on at length here, try to save it for later. ] Did the midwife identify herself or make clear her intent to take Willow. [no] Was any paperwork handed over at all to even indicate what had happened? [ the fake EPO was left behind, stu in Asha's bag ] Were the police in attendance? [yes] What did they say they were doing there? [they didn't] How did they react after the midwife had run out of the room? [blocked the doorway] They prevented you from leaving the room? [yes] Did they give an excuse as to why they were illegally detaining you? [no] How long after Willow was born was she taken? [6 to 7 hours] What was going on in those 6-7 hours? [Willow was recieving a lot of attention from the family bu Asha was not getting the treatment she needed] After that when the case went to court was it conducted properly? [no] Were you ever given a reason why Staordshire were so keen to have Willow adopted they were prepared to break the law and simply kidnap her? [ yes, o the record, hopefully Paul will remember the details ] Was there any new evidence in Willow's case over that in Lilly and Chloe's case? [no, no chance for any Page 6

SummingUp.txt Willow was snatched 2 days before she was even due to be born ] Why was Asha induced 2 days early? [ Social Services claimed it would be seen as neglect if Asha did not have the inducement ] I see, so it would be neglect not to be induced 2 days before the due date but somehow it wasn't neglect to leave Asha bleeding for hours while they fabricated an EPO and lined up a 'midwife' to kidnap a child. [ rhetorcal question ] [I would ask his honour to estimate just how many laws were being broken during this incident and how many years of jail time could be expected to be handed out were there to be prosecutions for each but I suspect my point is already made]

Back in May 2012 you talked to Ruth Wright: Community Pyschiatric Nurse? [yes] I understand that you got on well and that she told you some things o the record [yes, Don't let Paul expand on this if possible] I also understand that you intend to break that condence now in the interest of Jack's future and that you believe Ruth would understand in the circumstances? [yes] So what did she tell you? [That staordshire were trying to get him sectioned and to stay away from the Mental Health system ] Was she also a party to the 'Chinese whispers' that were being passed around about you. [yes, lurid tales of self immolation ] She clearly wasn't deceived by what she'd heard or her attitude to you would have been very dierent? [yes]

The nal judgement in Lilly and Chloe's case was given by 3 magistrates rather than a judge? [yes] Was that case conducted properly and fairly? [no] What evidence was presented in that case that could have later justied an EPO for Willow? [none] Were you ever accused of harming Lily or Chloe? [no] [Paul's recorded case conference where they admitted he was not a danger] So later the possibility of 'immediate harm' to Willow, other than that from being kidnapped, simply didn't exist? [no] If it was in fact all about parenting then should Lilly and Chloe have been taken at all according to the law? [no] ["Because it is generally in the best interests of a child to be brought up with its natural family,"society Page 7

SummingUp.txt must be willing to tolerate very diverse standards of parenting, including the eccentric, the barely adequate and the inconsistent.... It is not the provenance of the state to spare children all the consequences of defective parenting ... Only exceptionally should the state intervene with compulsive powers and then only when a court is satised that the signicant harm criteria is s.31(2)[are] made out" (per Hadley J in Re L(Care: Threshold Criteria)[2007] 1 FLR 2050)"] If that case was a farce why couldn't you appeal the decision? [details on Paul Heally's betrayal ] [ Paul Heally: "All the care needs had been met" "The children want to return home." but he then went on to state his opinion, "risk of future emmotional harm." The lawyers agreed to withhold the paperwork that would be necessary to appeal.] Did the police breach their own policy by assisting social worker in taking Lilly and Chloe? [no, Lilly and Chloe were taken by force by a social worker not assissted by police.] How did Lilly and Chloe's case end up in court in the rst place when you were never accused of harming them? [ At this point probably best to let Paul run with it for a bit if Orrell will allow it social worker removed support - experimentally One bad day, the side eects of medication prevented you from taking Lilly to school?] You asked the school for help, they said they'd get back top you? [yes] What actually happened? [ The actual response was the Alison Beale (health visitor with a chip on shoulder the size of Birmingham) sent the police round. followed by a phone call saying 'Did you like that, I sent my friend round the policeman' ] Now it transpired later that Tabitha Fernly the Parent support worker from the school had her coat on the way to come and help you that day. Why did she not do so? [ said she was instructed by Alison Beale not to help Paul.] [Policeman came round and found nothing wrong. 'Try and pull yourself together and get Liily to school and Chloe to playgroup'. He left and did not ( as far as we know ) le an incident report. Once again if he did it should be in Section J] So how long was the delay in getting Lilly to school? [Paul took Lilly to school, 20 minutes late. Got Chloe to playgroup on time.] I seem to recall being 20 minutes late to school on a few occassions and getting a ticking o. I don't recall anyone sending the police around to my parents house. Do you think that's normal, reasonable behaviour? [no] In fact Alison Beale's behaviour was far from normal and reasonable wasn't it? So much so that you Page 8

SummingUp.txt were advised, by Michelle O'Hagan who had been your social worker, to put in an ocial complaint about her? [yes--] Can you give an example of Alison Beale's over the top behaviour? [Michelle O'Hagan brought a friend to the family home who helped clean it from top to bottom. The following day Alison Beale visited ~11:00am, waking Chole up from her regular knap by ringing the bell, claimed that Chloe had been in her cot all day. Looked down her nose from the doorway of the at, said 'I see nothing's changed, I'm going to put that in a report'. This was the day after the at had been cleaned form top to bottom.] Why was Michelle O'Hagan no longer your social worker at this point? [removed by Jennifer Muncaster] I understand that Alison Beale made a disproportionate fuss of Chloe loosing wait but didn't follow best practice when weighing her in the rst place. Can you explain? [sometimes Chloe was weighed with a full nappy, sometimes dressed, sometimes naked for no apparent reason. This wasn't done with the other children ] Would this cause her weight chart to uctuate unexpectedly? [yes] Was she in fact underweight for her age to your knowledge? [no, heavier than his relatives child at the same age despite both father and mother being shorter than average] So later on the same day that Alison Beale has sent the policeman round you were at playgroup with Chloe around midday. Is that when the Social Workers turned up? [yes] I understand that they pulled Chloe out of playgroup and had your mother pull Lilly out of school that day? [yes] That would seem to be more disruptive and disturbing than your temporary inability to leave the house in the morning? [yes] The disruptive and destructve actions didn't stop their though did they? After Lilly and Chloe were taken Jennifer Muncater took it upon herself to contact the benets oce. What was the result of that. [ Asha's DLA was cancelled, child benets withdrawn and Pauls carers allownce and income support were stopped. A situation which his still not been resolved. Paul and Asha have been forced into debt and eective destitution as a result.]

Later Liz Ford, a social worker working under Jennifer Muncaster came to your house? [yes] Where she threatened to take the children and both threatened and assaulted Lilly, leaving her lying on the oor crying? [yes] Was she accompanied on this occasion by a family support worker? Did the family support worker have any idea how to help you? [no] Did you give consent for the childrent to be removed to stay with your parents? [no] Page 9

SummingUp.txt Was it Liz Ford who said you needed a mental health assesssment and a parenting assessment and the children would be returned? [yes] I understand that at this point you were due to join a family support group? How long after Lilly and Chloe were snathced was that due to start? [ 3 days ] But that never happened because of Lilly and Chloe being taken? [yes] To summarize then up to this point Social Services had forced your wife to leave for her parents, prevent the school from assisting you when you needed it, tried to get you into trouble with the police, assaulted your eldest daughter and removed both your children from the family home? [yes] And so far there entire justication for this appears to have been Lilly being 20 minutes late for school on 1 day and Chloe having once had a vomitting bug while she was teething? Under these circumstances would it be normal in your opinion to be depressed and angry, especially angry with social services? [yes] Would it in fact be a sign of emmotional immaturity if you weren't angry with people who had mistreated you and your children in this way? [yes]

Some time later you were visited by the mental health crisis team? [yes] What was there assessment in summary? [ Mental Health crisis team, saw NO EVIDENCE OF RISK ] Why don't we have that assessment here today as evidence? [because it's held by a Solicitor, David Hopkins in Uttoxeter after he refused to show it in court, claiming 'it's not that kind of court' ] Have you ever had the 'parenting' assessment Liz Ford said you should have? [no] What is Staordshire's excuse for that? [ failing viability assessment ] Excuse my ignorance but viability for what? Do you have to pass some sort of test so that you can be tested? [ Were told to come for informal meeting and then told they'd failed a formal assessment. ]

Going back a little further can you explain how you came to be looking after Lilly and Chloe on your own at the time of the original late-for-school incident. ? [ How Asha had been bullied and pushed into leaving ] [Liz Ford insisted that Paul sign a piece of paper, an agreement that Asha couldn't live in the family home while the children were there.] [Asha's parents took Lilly and Chloe ( birth certicates and ALL ) and Asha returned to the family home. A (swap)] So at this time Social Services were trying to get rid of Asha, separate her from the children but it seems they had no problem with you? [no...] Don't you think this alone makes rather a nonsense of the repeated claim we've heard in this court that 'nothing has changed'? In fact hasn't Social Services own attitude and approach to you changed Page 10

SummingUp.txt 180 degrees in the course of 4 years? [yes] Were you in fact told that if you split from Asha they would support you in keeping the children? [yes] But then again Asha was told the same thing so perhaps when it comes honesty and integrity they haven't changed so much? [rhetorical question]

I understand that 3 months after Lilly and Chloe were taken without any supporting paperwork there was a family conference. Is that correct? [yes] Was Jennifer Muncaster there? [no, she attended only by speaker phone, admitted she'd done no paperwork whatsoever. 'Needed to catch up'] Did she seem to be showing the level of urgent attention that might be expected if Lilly and Chloe were at risk? [no] She did evetually meet with you and with Kate, Asha's sister in law. How did that go? [JM said to Kate 'if you don't adopt these children they'll be separated and sent to separate families'.] So Kate and Tom ( Asha's brother ) where pressured into adopting? [yes, They were going to emmigrate to Australia but plans were suddenly changed]

[This is unclear and coul be left out, time will be pressing] There was an incident that I'm not clear on where social workers went into Lilly's school and talked to her. The supply teacher left the room because of what they were saying? Can you recall anything else about that, who was involved or what it was about ?[ ?Darren Maskel? supply teacher being so sickened by what the social worker was saying they left the room?]

If a newspaper journalist had written in one Mr Murdochs quality newspapers that you were a self harming, violent, dangerous, paranoid, mentally ill, high risk, bad parent. Going on to imply that your wife was a drunk and a prostitute and lets say that you went on to sue them and they came to court with the evidence that stas have provided. Third hand reports of what someone said you said, malicious rumours based on unpresented documents and salacious oce gossip what outcome would you expect? [ hefty nes for the newspaper, huge publicity and lottery scale compensation ] If instead the court decided to take your children away and pay your accusers far more public money than you've recieved in your life while stopping your benets and then threatened to send you to prison if you told anyone what they had done? [...] [To lift the mood at the end] Coming all the way back now to the recent hearing. There was one nal accusation from Ms Hassle which we haven't dealt with. One item left to excuse your right to a family life being abused, your children being serially and unlawfully removed and harmed in the process and you being dragged through the courts, threatened and blackmailed. This one remaining accusation from Ms Hassle to which I'm afraid I have to advise to plead guilty. Ms Hassle accuses you not just of MUTTERING but of being a SERIAL MUTTERER. How do you plead? Page 11

SummingUp.txt [Then on that note I hand you over to his honour, bow scrape etc]

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Paul Livock: 9000 * 2 for 3 hours, cup of coee and a chat. Never came to the at Paul Livock's report Permission to vaccinate? Access to Jack's health appointments Asha concerned about his health?

Gemma Knoppy or Jenny but got someone else who said Jack had u from holiday? 8:29 bus 8:58 train 9:29 bus 9:58 train What does Alton Jarman know of us. Still waiting for the promised visit! Is Jack's birth registered? Charlotte Magoo claimed Asha said she couldn't cope. This is not true. Replaced Jenny Sohota Michael O'Conner Apologised after "I'm so sorry about what happened, it didn't have to be that way"

Police ocers, Graham and Dave. Pat short met twice at home and once in contact. Failed viability assessment. Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be betterto live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be stiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their Page 12

SummingUp.txt own conscience. C.S. Lewis.

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