LETS TALK BITCOIN

Episode 84 Ethereum
Participants:
Adam B. Levine (ABL) - Host
Jonathan Mohan (JM) LTB !o""es#ondent
Cha"$es Hos%inson (CH) &o'nde" o( Ethe"e'm #"o)e!t * ent"e#"ene'"
+ita$i% B'te"in (+B) &o'nde" o( Ethe"e'm #"o)e!t * #"o,"ame"
B"ian &a-ian C"ain (B&C) Host o( E#i!ente" Bit!oin #od!ast
Se-astien Co't'"e (SC) Host o( E#i!ente" Bit!oin #od!ast
The (o$$o.in, #"o,"am is (o" in(o"mationa$ #'"#oses on$/. C"/#to!'""en!/ is a ne. s!ien!e
so do /o'" home.o"% -e(o"e #'ttin, mone/ on the $ine.
Toda/ is &e-"'a"/ 01
th
2304. 5e$!ome to E#isode 64 o( Lets Ta$% Bit!oin7 a t.i!e .ee%$/
sho. a-o't the ideas7 #eo#$e and #"o)e!ts -'i$din, the di,ita$ e!onom/ and the ('t'"e o(
mone/.
M/ name is Adam B. Levine and Im the edito"-in-!hie( at the LTB net.o"% and toda/ the
to#i! at hand is Ethe"e'm.
Bit!oin sta"ted somethin, 'nsto##a-$e - a ne. t/#e o( di,ita$ mone/ that didnt have a
!om#an/ o" individ'a$ "es#onsi-$e (o" it. 5ith Bit!oin7 this innovation -e,ins .ith mone/
-'t man/ ne. #"oto!o$s a"e v/in, to -e!ome the 8Bit!oin 2.37 a-$e to a##$/ the same
-$ame$ess dis"'#tive innovation to... .e$$7 eve"/thin,.
Late $ast month7 LTB !o""es#ondent Jonathan Mohan sat do.n at the Ethe"e'm Ho'se
in Miami7 &$o"ida .ith t.o o( the #"o)e!t $eads7 Cha"$es Hos%inson and +ita$i%
B'te"in (o" a .ide "an,in, e9#$o"ation o( the '#!omin, Ethe"e'm #"o)e!t. It sho'$d
-e noted that Jonathan is !'""ent$/7 o" .i$$ -e!ome7 (o"ma$$/ a((i$iated .ith the
Ethe"e'm #"o)e!t in the nea" ('t'"e7 in a !omm'nit/ mana,ement !a#a!it/7 and so
ma%e '# /o'" o.n de!isions he"e. B't .ait7 the"es mo"e:
5e ."a# toda/s sho. .ith an '#date ("om this .ee%s Inside Bit!oins Be"$in
!on(e"en!e7 ("om Se-astien and B"ian at the E#i!ente" Bit!oin sho.. Sta/ t'ned to
hea" thei" im#"essions o( the E'"o#ean !on(e"en!e s!ene.
En)o/ the sho.: ;0<=2>
???????????????????????????????????????????
Jonathan Mohan interview with Charles Hoskinson & Vitalik uterin
JM: Im he"e at the Ethe"e'm Ho'se in the .ee ho'"s o( the $ast da/ o( the Bit!oin
!on(e"en!e o( Miami. Joinin, me is Cha"$es Hos%inson and +ita$i% B'te"in7 t.o o( the (ive
!o"e deve$o#e"s (o" the Ethe"e'm #"o)e!t. @'/s7 than%s (o" invitin, me in7 /o'" hos#ita$it/
and ta$%in, toda/. ;0<14>
CH: Its a #$eas'"e to -e .ith /o'. Its -een a $on, da/. ;0<1A>
JM: The"e .as a #"ett/ -i, #"esentation (o" Ethe"e'm at the !on(e"en!e. Can /o' ta$% a
$itt$e mo"e a-o't thatB ;2<30>
CH: It .as a ve"/ $a",e !on(e"en!e and in!"edi-$/ e9!itin,. I thin% it .as ove" 07333 #eo#$e
.ho attended. ;2<3A>
JM: Easi$/. ;2<36>
CH: Ceah7 man/ .onde"('$ !om#anies. It "ea$$/ s'"#"ised me to see ho. m'!h the
!on(e"en!e s!ene has ,"o.n ("om 230= to 2304. Ceah7 +ita$i% had a "ea$$/ .onde"('$
#"esentation. +ita$i%7 do /o' .ant to ta$% a-o't thatB ;2<0D>
V: Ceah7 s'"e. I had a thi"t/ min'te #"esentation and I -asi!a$$/ ta$%ed a-o't .hat
Ethe"e'm is7 .hat some o( the a##$i!ations a"e7 .h/ .e need it and I thin% the "e!e#tion .as
"ea$$/ amaEin,. I sa. in the #"esentation )'st -e(o"e mine7 43F o( the seats .e"e (i$$ed7
d'"in, mine it .ent '# to 63F and a(te" mine7 it .ent -a!% do.n to 13F. I thin% that means
somethin,. ;2<43>
CH: It .as amaEin,. In (a!t7 he said an/ G'estions and eve"/ hand .ent '# and then one...
the mode"ato" said /o' have to ,o7 /o' have to ,o7 so he .ent o'tside and eve"/-od/ $e(t the
"oom. The/ )'st mo--ed him $i%e a +an Ha$en !on!e"t. It .as !"aE/. ;2<12>
JM: It .as $i%e (o'" o" (ive #eo#$e dee#. It .as #"ett/ intense. ;2<14>
CH: It .as and I said Oh ,od7 Im so""/ +ita$i%. I have to !ome save /o'. ;2<1A>
JM: Im #"ett/ ta$$ so I !an see #eo#$e and I !o'$dnt even see his head in the sea o( #eo#$e.
;=<32>
CH: 5eve ,ot a #i!t'"e o( it a!t'a$$/. ;=<3=>
JM: 5hat .as that $i%eB ;=<34>
V: I )'st so"t o( sta"ed at the ("ont7 at the (i"st th"ee #eo#$e and I )'st !on!ent"ated on
.hateve" thei" G'estions .e"e. Basi!a$$/7 its $i%e a video ,ame. Co've ,ot a h'nd"ed
monste"s and /o' )'st so"t o( s$a/ them one -/ one. (La',hte") ;=<01>
JM: 5hat is Ethe"e'mB ;=<06>
CH: Ethe"e'm is "ea$$/ a #"o)e!t o( ("'st"ation. 5hat ha##ened .ith Maste"!oin7
Co$o"ed!oins7 BitSha"es and man/ othe" o( these othe" #"o)e!ts is7 the/ a$$ have this desi"e to
-'i$d inte"estin, thin,s eithe" on to# o( Bit!oin o" a#a"t ("om Bit!oin7 $i%e Sma"t !ont"a!ts7
Sma"t #"o#e"t/7 de!ent"a$iEed a'tonomo's o",aniEations7 de!ent"a$iEed e9!han,e7 Name!oin
st'((7 identit/ mana,ement st'((H these %inds o( thin,s. So (a"7 the "es'$ts .eve seen have
/ie$ded a $ot o( iso$ation7 ("a,mentation and a t"emendo's$/ hi,h !ost o( innovation. I'i!%$/
,oin, th"o',h it7 the #"o)e!ts a"e ha"d to dis!ove"7 so its ve"/ di((i!'$t to see .hos .o"%in,
on .hat a!"oss the ,eo,"a#h/. Se!ond7 the"es ove" 013 a$t!oins7 the"es a $ot o(
("a,mentation in the e!o-s/stem7 .hi!h is "ea$$/ 'n(o"t'nate. Thi"d7 it !osts mi$$ions o(
do$$a"s to ,et even the most t"ivia$ thin,s done. These a"e "ea$$/ the s/m#toms o( a disease
and the disease is a $a!% o( a (o'ndation. Ethe"e'm7 in essen!e7 is an attem#t to -'i$d a
(eat'"e$ess (o'ndation (o" innovation7 so eve"/-od/ !an -'i$d on to# o( it. 5hat .e"e doin,
is ta%in, a T'"in, !om#$ete s!"i#tin, $an,'a,e and .e"e ta%in, a -$o!%!hain and ma""/in,
them to,ethe" in a ve"/ 'niG'e .a/ .ith this me!hanism !a$$ed a Cont"a!t and then .e"e
,oin, to -'i$d a "e(e"en!e !$ient that sits on to# o( it7 .hi!h essentia$$/ -e!omes the And"oid
o( the !"/#to!'""en!/ s#a!e. It has a -ea'ti('$7 $a",e a##$i!ation !ata$o, and eve"/thin, is
one !$i!% insta$$ation7 so /o' .ant a .a$$et7 one !$i!% insta$$ation7 /o' .ant Bitmessa,e7 one
!$i!% insta$$ation. 5e"e ,oin, to o#en this '# so eve"/-od/ !an 'se o'" AJIs7 the/ !an 'se
!ommon #"o,"amin, #"a!ti!es to ."ite thei" o.n a##$i!ations (o" the !ata$o,. 5e"e ,oin, to
"eso$ve those th"ee #"o-$ems -e!a'se no. .e have a !ent"a$... I ,'ess its a de!ent"a$ !ent"a$
a## !ata$o, that /o' %no. .he"e a$$ the innovation is... e9!'se me7 /o' "eso$ve the iso$ation7
in a sense7 -e!a'se /o' !an see a$$ the #"o)e!ts in a sin,$e $o!ation. Co' !an sea"!h and (ind
them. Se!ond7 the a##s no. ta$% to ea!h othe" th"o',h o'" !om#ati-i$it/ $a/e". Co' dont
have to -'i$d Bitmessa,e eve"/ time /o' need Bitmessa,e ('n!tiona$it/ in /o'" #"od'!t. Co'
!an )'st sim#$/ ta$% to Bitmessa,e th"o',h o'" (o'ndation. Thi"d7 -e!a'se .e have a
!ommon a##$i!ation ("ame.o"% .ith this .onde"('$7 "ea$$/ ma,i!a$ deve$o#e" too$s7 /o'"e
,oin, to -e a-$e to deve$o# thin,s $i%e Maste"!oin in t.o months (o" K13-L37333 on to# o( the
#$at(o"m. Its not somethin, that "eG'i"es $a",e s!a$e en,inee"in, -e!a'se its "ea$$/7 ("om the
ve"/ -e,innin,7 a #$at(o"m -'i$t (o" innovation instead o( somethin, .he"e .e %ind o(7 a(te"
the (a!t7 have to (i,'"e it o't. ;1<42>
JM: 5hen Cha"$es sa/s a T'"in, !om#$ete -$o!%!hain7 +ita$i%7 .hat does he mean -/ thatB
;1<4A>
V: T'"in, !om#$eteness - the"e is this idea that /o' !an !"eate a #"o,"amin, $an,'a,e and
on!e that #"o,"amin, $an,'a,e has7 at $east7 a !e"tain th"esho$d o( ('t'"es7 then it -e!omes as
#o.e"('$ as an/ othe" #"o,"amin, $an,'a,e that /o' !an #ossi-$/ !on!eive. T'"in, !om#$ete
#"o,"amin, $an,'a,e !an -e 'sed to #e"(o"m an/ !om#'tation that !an -e mathemati!a$$/
de(ined. The idea the"e is that this is a dis!ove"/ made in !om#'te" s!ien!e .a/ -a!% in the
0D=3s. Instead o( havin, s#e!ia$iEed mod'$es to #e"(o"m s#e!i(i! tas%s7 /o' !an have one
T'"in, !om#$ete #"o,"amin, $an,'a,e and then /o' !an have !om#'tationa$ mod'$es
dedi!ated to e9e!'tin, that #"o,"amin, $an,'a,e and on to# o( that #"o,"amin, $an,'a,e7 /o'
!an -'i$d a$$ /o'" a##$i!ations. Ima,ine i( .e didnt have that7 then toda/7 .e mi,ht end '#
.ith !om#'te"s that had a ha"d.a"e mod'$e (o" So$itai"e7 a ha"d.a"e mod'$e (o" Inte"net
E9#$o"e"7 a ha"d.a"e mod'$e (o" 5o"$d o( 5a"!"a(t and thats %ind o( si$$/7 isnt itB ;L<=D>
CH: Basi!a$$/7 the notion is7 i( /o' !an d"eam it7 /o' !an -'i$d it. ;L<42>
JM: 5h/ do .e need Ethe"e'm (o" thisB Isnt the"e somethin, that .e !o'$d #'t into
Bit!oin7 o" do it .ith anothe" !oinB ;L<4A>
CH: No7 it .o'$d "eG'i"e si,ni(i!ant !han,es to the .a/ the #"oto!o$ .o"%s. A!t'a$$/7 to
'nde"stand the "eason .h/7 its 'se('$ to 'nde"stand the histo"/ o( Bit!oin and .he"e the
movement !ame ("om. Ba!% in 233D7 23367 Satoshi Na%amoto "ea$$/ .anted to test t.o
thin,s and the"e .e"e th"ee thin,s he !o'$d have tested -'t he .anted to test t.o7 at the ve"/
$east. He .anted to test this idea o( a de!ent"a$iEed data-ase. Basi!a$$/7 a $ed,e" .he"e /o'
!o'$d #'t in(o"mation into it and /o' !ant ta%e it o't. Its !om#$ete$/ imm'ta-$e7 its ve"/
se!'"e and its tota$$/ t"ans#a"ent. This is the idea o( the -$o!%!hain. Se!ond7 he .anted to
test a t"ansa!tion s/stem. He sa/s No. that I have this data-ase .ith a$$ thin,s I !ant ta%e
o't7 $et me -e a-$e to move #ositions ("om one #e"son to anothe" #e"son .ith no !o'nte"#a"t/
"is%7 the"e a"e no !ha",e -a!%s and /o' dont need an/ thi"d #a"ties (o" this t"ansa!tion
s/stem. These thin,s !om-ined to,ethe" a!t'a$$/ ma%e a ve"/ ni!e !'""en!/ -'t the"es this
thi"d thin, /o' !o'$d test (and he .as a.a"e o( it) .hi!h is a T'"in, !om#$ete s!"i#tin,
s/stem. The #"o-$em is7 .hen one .ants to em-"a!e T'"in, !om#$eteness7 it !omes a$on,
.ith a !ost7 .hi!h a"e 's'a$$/ se!'"it/ im#$i!ations7 im#$i!ations a-o't -$oat7 a .ho$e -'n!h
o( thin,s and .hen /o'"e "'nnin, an e9#e"iment thats a$"ead/ "ea$$/ #'shin, the ed,e7 and
/o' dont .ant to invite those %inds o( "is%s. No.7 (ast (o".a"d7 .e"e a-o't (ive /ea"s in the
('t'"e and .eve seen amaEin, innovation in this s#a!e7 .eve seen a $ot o( #$a/e"s "ea$$/
.o"%in, ha"d and .eve ,otten to the #oint .he"e eve"/-od/ a,"ees T'"in, !om#$eteness7 in
some .a/7 is a ,ood idea7 .hethe" /o'"e O#en T"ansa!tions7 /o'"e Mi##$e7 /o'"e
Maste"!oin eve"/-od/ has thei" o.n ideas a-o't ho. to do this. It seems to me7 the most
$o,i!a$ #$a!e to 'se it is on a se#a"ate -$o!%!hain st"'!t'"e7 so that .e !an #"ese"ve and
#"ote!t the va$'e o( Bit!oin .hi$e .e !ond'!t this ne. e9#e"iment. ;6<=0>
JM: 5hen .e"e ta$%in, a-o't the -$o!%!hain7 the"es a!t'a$$/ a #"oo(-o(-.o"% that /o'"e
'sin, !a$$ed Na,,e". ;6<=L>
CH: Ces7 thats !o""e!t. It has some inte"estin, !ha"a!te"isti!s and #"o#e"ties .hi!h a"e
di"e!ted a!/!$i! ,"a#hs. Na,,e" .as desi,ned to -e a memo"/-ha"d #"oo( so7 its intended to
-e ASIC "esistant -/ sim#$/ "e!o,niEin, the e!onomi!s7 the -asi!s that sa/s i( /o' -'i$d an
ASIC (o" it7 D3F o( the ASIC .o'$d -e !om#'te" memo"/7 .hi!h is a$"ead/ hi,h$/
o#timiEed. Basi!a$$/7 a CJO s/stem7 a $a#to# .ith memo"/ o" a des%to# .ith memo"/7 .o'$d
-e the idea$ mine"7 not a ,"a#hi!s !a"d. On(o"t'nate$/7 Na,,e" does have some iss'es .ith its
ASICs "esistan!e. 5hi$e it is !"/#to,"a#hi!a$$/ se!'"e7 it 'ses the same SHA hashin,
me!hanism that Bit!oin 'ses -'t it sho'$d im#"ove one -e!a'se .e"e 'sin, SHA =. Na,,e"
does have a #"o-$em .ith sha"ed memo"/7 so it !ant -e 'sed .ith the #"o#e"t/ o( ASIC
"esistan!e in its !'""ent im#$ementation. Thats a!t'a$$/ OK (o" 's -e!a'se .e .ent to the
d"a.in, -oa"d and .e ta$%ed to a $ot o( #eo#$e in the !omm'nit/ ("om some ,ood
!"/#to,"a#he"s to othe" #eo#$e and .e !ame '# .ith a #"ett/ ,ood #$an. Movin, (o".a"d
into the ('t'"e7 a(te" .eve !$ea"ed the ('nd"aise"7 .hat .e"e #$annin, on doin, is ho$din, an
a!ademi! !ontest7 .he"e .e"e ,oin, to... ins#i"ed -asi!a$$/ -/ AES. Its "ea$$/ 'se('$ to
e9amine AES and .e"e %ind o( ta%in, a $ot o( ins#i"ation ("om that. Basi!a$$/7 the &ede"a$
,ove"nment #aid IBM and a (e. othe" !ont"a!to"s7 a -oat $oad o( mone/ to deve$o# NES in
the A3s and 'n(o"t'nate$/7 NES had some iss'es .ith its im#$ementation. Lea"nin, ("om that
e9#e"ien!e and seein, the #ains that it !a'sed the ind'st"/7 NIST and othe"s7 "ea$$/ .anted to
ta%e the ,ame '# a not!h and so the/ !"eated a $a",e !i"!$e o( a!ademi! #a"tne"s. The/
.o"%ed ve"/ ha"d .ith them and !"eated a !om#etition .he"e the/ invited the -est and the
-"i,htest mathemati!ians and !"/#to,"a#he"s in the .o"$d7 and !om#'te" s!ientists in the
.o"$d7 to #a"ti!i#ate. 5e had Mon Mivest7 B"'!e S!hneie" !om#eted man/ teams.
Event'a$$/7 Mi)ndae$ .ent o't and -e!ame AES. 5e $oo%ed at that and .e sa. the va$'e
,ained ("om !om#etition and the va$'e ,ained ("om !o$$a-o"ation. 5e said .e !o'$d
!e"tain$/ (i9 Na,,e" -'t7 in a sense7 a m'!h -ette" idea to ta%e the notion o( a #"oo(-o(-.o"%7
#"oo(-o(-sta%e h/-"id and ho$d a !om#etition .ith the same e!onomi! mode$ that .e have7
the same $inea" in($ation "ate and a$$ the #a"amete"s .e desi"e7 (o" e9am#$e eithe" ASIC
"esistan!e o" ASIC imm'nit/7 i( thats #ossi-$e and ,et a .onde"('$ team o( )'d,es7 se$e!ted
("om the a##$ied and theo"eti!a$ s#a!e7 -oth ("om the ha"d.a"e and so(t.a"e side7 and ho$d a
$a",e-s!a$e !om#etition .ith a (ai"$/ "o-'st -o'nt/ to deve$o# a "e#$a!ement (o" Na,,e".
;03<1D>
JM: 5h/ is it that it )'st !ant -e !om#$ete$/ #"oo(-o(-sta%eB 5hat is the desi"e o( 'sin,
#"oo(-o(-.o"% at a$$B ;00<34>
CH: OK7 the"es this notion o( eG'ita-i$it/ so /o'"e %ind o( t"adin, demons .hen /o' ,o
("om #"oo(-o(-.o"% to #"oo(-o(-sta%e. 5hen /o'"e on #"oo(-o(-.o"% s/stem7 /o' a"e
v'$ne"a-$e to 10F atta!%s and those atta!%s a"e (o"!ed -/ he .ho o.ns the minin, ha"d.a"e.
5hen /o'"e in a #"oo(-o(-sta%e s/stem7 /o'"e v'$ne"a-$e to 10F atta!%s and those a"e
v'$ne"a-$e to he .ho o.ns the !'""en!/. I( /o' $oo% at dist"i-'tions o( !'""en!ies $i%e
Bit!oin and othe" s'!h !oins7 /o'$$ tend to see that its G'ite a$$e,o"i!a$7 in a sense7 a sma$$
,"o'# o( #eo#$e tend to !ont"o$ a $a",e s!a$e o( the !'""en!/. I( /o'"e !om(o"ta-$e .ith that7
#"oo(-o(-sta%e is a!t'a$$/ a (ai"$/ ,ood s/stem. I( /o'"e not !om(o"ta-$e .ith a $a!% o(
eG'ita-i$it/ in the e!o-s/stem7 then /o' #"o-a-$/ need to em-"a!e some so"t o( othe" h/-"id.
The"e a"e n'me"o's othe" #"o-$ems .ith #"oo(-o(-sta%e7 $i%e ho. do /o' dist"i-'te the
mone/ and so (o"th and7 I thin% +ita$i% !an e$a-o"ate ('"the" on this. ;00<1=>
V: Mi,ht7 so the -asi! iss'e is that #"oo(-o(-.o"% a!t'a$$/ se"ves t.o ('n!tions. The (i"st
('n!tion is se!'"in, the net.o"% and the se!ond ('n!tion is #"ovidin, an iss'an!e me!hanism.
The thin, is that i( /o' move to #"oo(-o(-sta%e7 then /o' a$so $ose the iss'an!e me!hanism.
The on$/ .a/ that /o' have o( iss'in, ne. !oins is to7 -asi!a$$/7 ,ive them to e9istin,
sta%eho$de"s and thats -asi!a$$/ eG'iva$ent to havin, a !'""en!/ thats hi,h$/ de($ationa"/.
&o" e9am#$e7 i( /o' $oo% at Jee"!oin7 Jee"!oin is a #"oo(-o(-sta%e !oin and it (o$$o.s that
mode$. The"e is a!t'a$$/ a -$o,#ost that .as $oo%in, at the dist"i-'tion met"i!s (o" a$$ the
!oins and Jee"!oin is #"ett/ m'!h the most a$$e,o"i!a$ o( them a$$. I( .e a"e ,oin, to -e
heavi$/ "e$iant on #"oo(-o(-sta%e .itho't a #"oo(-o(-.o"% !om#onent7 .e .o'$d need to
!ome '# .ith some a$te"native me!hanism o( dist"i-'tin, the !'""en!/ even i( its in the $on,
te"m. ;02<42>
JM: I tho',ht the thin, that Ethe"e'm did .as it a$$o.ed mine"s to e9e!'te !ode on -eha$(
o( a 'se"B Co'$dnt that -e the me!hanism -/ .hi!h /o' !o'$d dist"i-'te ne. !'""en!/
iss'an!e7 is essentia$$/ -/ the amo'nt o( !ode that /o' e9e!'te on -eha$( o( the 'se" "athe"
than )'st -/ minin,7 $i%e SHA 21L o" SHA =B ;0=<33>
V: Theo"eti!a$$/7 that .o'$d -e idea$ -'t the #"o-$em is that ho. do /o' ve"i(/ that the
mine" a!t'a$$/ e9e!'ted those !om#'tations as o##osed to )'st #"etendin, that he e9e!'ted
those !om#'tations7 ,ene"atin, some "andom "es'$tsB ;0=<0=>
CH: Mi,ht. The #oint o( the #"oo(-o(-.o"% is that its somethin, that is -e/ond "e#"oa!h.
On!e /o've done it and -"oad!ast it to the net.o"%7 it is ve"i(ia-$e and its done in a t.o #a"t
.a/ /o' do a ha"d set o( .o"% to (ind an ans.e" and essentia$$/7 $i%e a $otte"/ s/stem and
on!e /o've done it7 its eas/ to ve"i(/. The"e is no .a/ o( ,ettin, a"o'nd that. Co' have to
do the .o"%. I( .e .e"e to (o$$o. that %ind o( a mode$7 /o' .o'$d $ose that #"o#e"t/.
Anothe" thin, a-o't #"oo(-o(-sta%e thats inte"estin, is that it is a ,ood .a/ o( ,ettin, #eo#$e
.ho o.n !'""en!/ to have a s%in in the ,ame (o" !onsens's me!hanisms so thats a va$'a-$e
#"o#e"t/ to e9#$o"e and thin% a-o't. Co' have to -e ve"/ !a"e('$ a-o't the eG'ita-i$it/ o(
/o'" !'""en!/. Co' dont .ant to have a sit'ation .he"e /o' have a ,"o'# o( sa/ (ive7 o" ten
#eo#$e .ho o.n the -'$% o( /o'" !'""en!/ and the"e(o"e7 !an !ont"o$ the !onsens's. 5ith o'"
mode$7 .e thin% that #"oo(-o(-sta%e has some #"omise -'t .e dont thin% its ,ood (o" an
iss'an!e mode$. ;04<00>
JM: SHA = seems $i%e a #e!'$ia" !hoi!e. Im not a !"/#to,"a#he" -'t it seems $i%e the
de-ates a$.a/s -een -et.een S!"/#t and SHA 21L. 5h/ is it that /o'"e mi9in, it '# -/
,oin, .ith a di((e"ent a$,o"ithmB ;04<2=>
CH: OK7 the"e a"e a !o'#$e o( "easons. N'm-e" one7 SHA= has a .onde"('$ !"/#to,"a#hi!
#"imitive7 the s#on,e !onst"'!tion7 .hi!h is event'a$$/ ,oin, to -e 'sed to !onst"'!t -$o!%
!i#he"s and ne. "andom n'm-e" ,ene"ato"s. Its a -ea'ti('$ !onst"'!tion )'st -/ itse$(. I
thin% its "evo$'tiona"/ as a ;ina'id-$e> !i"!'it. Se!ond7 SHA= is ,oin, to event'a$$/ .o"% its
.a/ into !ent"a$ ASICs and CJOs7 -oth on the AMM side7 the Inte$ side and the AMN side.
The"es this idea o( s#e!ia$iEed !"/#to!o"es. 5eve a$"ead/ seen them .ith AES7 (o"
e9am#$e. Its ni!e to sa/ He/7 /o'" CJO a$"ead/ has a -'i$t-in advanta,e that /o'"
!e$$#hone has7 /o'" des%to# has and so (o"th. A$so7 it )'st seems to -e !$eane" in the .a/ that
.eve desi,ned thin,s to em-"a!e the ne.est standa"d7 es#e!ia$$/ sin!e the standa"d has -een
si,ni(i!ant$/ vetted. NIST has ,one th"o',h it and man/ othe" a,en!ies have ,one th"o',h it.
;01<04>
JM: Co' .e"e invo$ved .ith Invi!t's Innovations. ;01<0L>
CH: Thats !o""e!t. ;01<0L>
JM: The/ too7 have a memo"/-ha"d a$,o"ithm. ;01<06>
CH: Ceah and the"e a"e some iss'es. Its !a$$ed Moment'm -'t the/"e movin, a.a/ ("om
that to a #"oo(-o(-sta%e s/stem. ;01<24>
JM: 5h/ is it that .e need to de!ent"a$iEe minin, to CJOsB I dont 'nde"stand7 I tho',ht
the .ho$e a",'ment .ith ASICs .as )'st $et it ha##en -e!a'se its a t"ansitiona$ #hase and
then event'a$$/7 eve"/one .i$$ have it and then the e((e!t o( ASICs .i$$ )'st -e ,one. ;01<=6>
CH: The"e a"e a !o'#$e o( "easons .h/ ASICs !a'se #"o-$ems in the e!o-s/stem and some
o( them a"e #"o-$ems o( taste and the othe" ones a"e #"o-$ems o( "e,'$ation. The #"o-$ems o(
taste a"e i( /o'"e OK .ith on$/ a sma$$ ,"o'# o( #eo#$e havin, a!!ess to the ha"d.a"e and
on$/ a sma$$ ,"o'# o( #eo#$e eve" -ein, a-$e to "'n $a",e ASIC #oo$s7 i( /o'"e OK .ith that7
then thats not a #"o-$em. I( /o'"e not OK .ith that7 then that is a #"o-$em -e!a'se thats
the inevita-$e moment'm o( ASICs in ,ene"a$. ;0L<31>
JM: CJOs7 !ant /o' )'st do that .ith -otnetsB ;0L<3L>
CH: S'"e /o' !an do that .ith -otnets -'t eve"/-od/ has a $a#to#7 eve"/-od/ has a des%to#.
Co' neve" have to -'/ an/thin,7 so eve"/-od/7 i( the/ .anted to -'i$d a $a",e-s!a$e minin,
#oo$7 I !an )'st ,o -'/ se"ve" -$ades. I dont have to .ait (o" a #"e-o"de" ("om B'tte"($/ La-s7
o" .ait (o" anothe" KnCMine" to !ome. It ta%es time to ,et these devi!es and the #eo#$e .ho
,et (i"st a!!ess to them a"e not eve"/da/ !ons'me"s. The/ a"e not .e$$ dist"i-'ted. The
#eo#$e .ho ,et a!!ess to them a"e the #eo#$e !$osest to the !om#anies and the #eo#$e !$osest
to the #oo$s7 OKB &"om that %ind o( a #e"s#e!tive7 thats (ine. Its a !ommodit/ -'siness -'t
honest$/7 it seems to me i( /o' .ant to have the ("eest and (ai"est dist"i-'tion o( ha"d.a"e7
/o' ,o .ith somethin, that is the most dist"i-'ted7 in this !ase the CJO. It is the most
dist"i-'ted #$at(o"m. Se!ond7 is a #"o-$em o( "e,'$ation. Ima,ine i( /o' had t.o $ists a
-$a!%$ist and a .hite$ist. OKB Ima,ine i( the maintaine" o( the -$a!%$ist and the .hite$ist
.ent to the ASIC man'(a!t'"e"s and said OK7 Im ,oin, to ,o ahead and !"eate a #"oto!o$
.he"e an ASIC mine" .ont #"o!ess t"ansa!tions that have to'!hed thin,s that a"e on a
-$a!%$ist7 so I ta%e a !oin in essen!e. Co' !o'$dnt #ossi-$/ do this .ith Inte$ o" AMN o"
AMM. The/"e not ,oin, to modi(/ thei" a"!hite!t'"e to #$a!ate the .i$$ o( an a!to". &o"
ASIC man'(a!t'"e"s .ho a"e G'ite sma$$7 the/"e ve"/ -o'tiG'e ha"d.a"e7 thei" ma"%et
!a#ita$iEations a"e not so "o-'st the/ !an -e !om#e$$ed to do this7 i( desi"ed. Some .i$$
!oo#e"ate and some .i$$ not. The #oint is -e!a'se the hash #o.e" is no. !ent"a$iEed to a
sma$$ ,"o'# o( #eo#$e7 this !o'$d ha##en .ithin a th"ee to (ive /ea" s#"ead and then /o'd
have a sit'ation .he"e /o' !o'$d have /o'" Bit!oin7 /o' )'st !ant send them an/.he"e
the/ !ant -e sent th"o',h t"ansa!tions. Thats an e9am#$e o( a -$a!%$ist atta!% that !o'$d -e
#ossi-$e o" en,inee"ed in a ve"/ !"eative .a/ .ith ASICs. ;0A<10>
JM: Mi,ht -'t I mean7 !ent"a$iEation .ith CJO minin,7 it a$.a/s ha##ens -e!a'se the/
a$.a/s move to @JO minin,. ;0A<16>
CH: No7 the/ !ant. Te!hni!a$$/7 its ve"/ di((i!'$t to move to a @JO s#a!e. One7 -e!a'se
the #"o!essin, !o"es themse$ves a"e s$o.e" and se!ond7 -e!a'se the memo"/ s#a!e is sma$$e".
@JOs dont have =2@B o( MAM7 a $ot o( des%to#s do. ;06<02>
JM: Ea"$ie" toda/7 .e had one o( the (o'nde"s o( Lite!oin .ho .as he"e. ;06<01>
CH: Ceah. ;06<01>
JM: Lite!oin .as !"eated s#e!i(i!a$$/ to ,ive CJO minin, -a!% to #eo#$e .ho .e"e
ove"!"o.ded -/ @JO minin, and the tho',ht .as its 'n-ASICa-$e7 its 'n-ASICa-$e.
;06<21>
CH: Co' dont sa/ that. The"es the notion o( ASIC "esistan!e and that its -asi!a$$/7 a .a"
,ame -et.een a$,o"ithm desi,ne"s and the intention o( the o"i,ina$ #"oo(-o(-.o"% s/stem.
Then7 the"es ASIC imm'nit/ .he"e the"e a"e st"'!t'"a$ (eat'"es that ma%e it #h/si!a$$/
im#ossi-$e to deve$o# ASIC. Co' !an #'"s'e ASIC "esistan!e and the desi,ne"s o( S!"/#t did
and7 (o" a time7 it .o"%ed .e$$. No.7 #eo#$e have dis!ove"ed .a/s o( 'sin, S!"/#t on @JOs
G'ite e((i!ient$/. Thats )'st the nat'"e o( the -'siness. ;06<12>
JM: Ho. is that not ,oin, to -e the !ase .ith Ethe"e'mB ;06<14>
CH: As I said7 .e"e ,oin, to have a ve"/ "o-'st !om#etition to -'i$d a ve"/ ,ood #"oo(-o(-
.o"% thats ,oin, to e9hi-it !ha"a!te"isti!s o( ASIC "esistan!e. No.7 /o'"e a-so$'te$/ "i,ht7
it #e"ha#s !o'$d -e the !ase that some-od/ deve$o#s a @JO a$,o"ithm and (inds a .a/ to
en)o/ mass !on!'""en!/ thats (ine -e!a'se @JOs a"e sti$$ .e$$ dist"i-'ted. I !an -'/ them
on Ne.e,, o" no.7 .ith Bit!oin on Ti,e"Ni"e!t. Thats a ,ood thin, (o" !ons'me"s. I dont
have to .ait (o" si9 months (o" m/ @JO #"e-o"de". A$so @JO man'(a!t'"e"s a"e not ,oin, to
!han,e thei" a"!hite!t'"e to #$a!ate ,ene"i! atta!%s on thei" s/stem. ;0D<26>
??????????????????????????????????????
!"VE#$:
K"/#toKit is the .o"$ds (i"st Ch"ome -"o.se" Bit!oin .a$$et. Its the easiest7 (astest Bit!oin
.a$$et #a/ment s/stem .ith a sim#$e one !$i!% insta$$7 it ta%es )'st se!onds to ,et /o'" .a$$et
set '# and -e!a'se K"/#toKit (inds the add"ess and #a/ment (o" /o'7 the"es no mo"e ('ssin,
a"o'nd o" ta- s.it!hin,. K"/#toKit is mo"e than )'st a .a$$et. It !omes .ith a #"e-$oaded
J@J en!"/#ted so!ia$ net.o"%7 ne.s(eeds ("om Meddit and @oo,$e and '# to date !ha"ts ("om
e9!han,es. &ina$$/7 K"/#toKit di"e!to"/ a$$o.s /o' to ma%e t.o !$i!% #a/ments .ith an/ o(
the BitJa/ me"!hants. On!e /o' insta$$ K"/#toKit7 /o' .ont need an/thin, e$se. &o" mo"e
in(o"mation7 o" to do.n$oad K"/#toKit7 visit ....K"/#toKit.!om. ;23<01>
!"VE#$:
5o'$d /o' $i%e to -'/ Bit!oinB Cash Into Coins #"ovides the (astest7 easiest and sa(est .a/
to -'/ Bit!oin in the Onited States. Sim#$/ #$a!e an o"de" on$ine7 de#osit !ash at an/
s'##o"ted -an% and "e$a9. Cash Into Coins .i$$ ve"i(/ /o'" de#osit and send o't /o'" Bit!oin
.ithin 24 ho'"s. Join tens o( tho'sands o( #eo#$e .ho have #'"!hased ("om Cash Into Coins.
5hat a"e /o' .aitin, (o"B B'/ /o'" Bit!oin toda/. @o to ....!ashinto!oins.!om. ;23<1=>
??????????????????????????????????????
JM: 5hats a dist"i-'ted a'tonomo's o",aniEation o" !o"#o"ationB I hea" Maste"!oin and
BitSha"es ta$%in, a-o't it and ho. is that ,oin, to (it into Ethe"e'ms T'"in, !om#$ete !odeB
;20<3A>
V: OK7 the idea -ehind the dist"i-'ted a'tonomo's o",aniEation is that /o' have an
o",aniEation7 it !o'$d -e a !om#an/7 it !o'$d -e a non-#"o(it7 it !o'$d -e an/thin, made '# o(
#eo#$e -'t the o",aniEations st"'!t'"e7 the o",aniEations -/$a.s and its !onstit'tion7 the/"e
not en(o"!ed -/ a $e,a$ s/stemH the/"e en(o"!ed di"e!t$/ on the -$o!%!hain. The o",aniEation
mi,ht have a "'$e that sa/s 5e need A3F o( o'" mem-e"s !onsent in o"de" to move the
('nds and /o' !o'$d have that en(o"!ed as a !ont"a!t in the -$o!%!hain. An o",aniEations
('nds .o'$d a!t'a$$/ -e o.ned -/ this so"t o( vi"t'a$ a!!o'nt and in o"de" to ma%e
.ithd"a.a$s ("om that vi"t'a$ a!!o'nt7 the -$o!%!hain .o'$d a!t'a$$/ en(o"!e the "eG'i"ement
that /o' need A3F o( the mem-e"s !onsent. In ,ene"a$7 de!ent"a$iEed a'tonomo's
o",aniEations a"e somethin, that #eo#$e have -een ta$%in, a-o't 'sin, that te"m (o" a (e.
months -'t not 'sin, that te"m "ea$$/ (o" G'ite a (e. /ea"s no.. The #"o-$em that the"e has
-een7 so (a"7 is that in o"de" to have a NAO7 /o' have to have some %ind o( dist"i-'ted
!onsens's #$at(o"m (o" it to $ive on. Bit!oin is a dist"i-'ted !onsens's #$at(o"m -'t Bit!oin is
(a" too $imited (o" most o( these %inds o( !om#'tations. &o" e9am#$e7 S!"/#ts a"e Bit!oins
eG'iva$ent o( !ont"a!ts7 the/"e -ina"/. The/ !an even -e s#ent o" 'ns#ent. Thats "ea$$/ not
eno',h state in o"de" to en!ode an o",aniEation. An o",aniEation is m'!h mo"e !om#$e9 than
)'st s#ent and 'ns#ent. An o",aniEation has to maintain .hat its "'$es a"e7 .ho the !'""ent
mem-e"s a"e7 i( its a !om#an/ .hat the #e"!enta,es o( the !'""ent mem-e"s a"e7 ma/-e it
mi,ht even need to maintain its o.n de!ent"a$iEed e9!han,e (o" the sha"es7 it mi,ht need to
have a!!o'nts in othe" !ont"a!ts and so (o"th. Ethe"e'm and I .o'$d sa/ Maste"!oin and
BitSha"es7 as .e$$7 a"e a$$ see%in, to !"eate !onsens's $a/e"s that a"e #o.e"('$ eno',h in
o"de" (o" these %inds o( de!ent"a$iEed o",aniEations to a!t'a$$/ -e #ossi-$e. ;22<1L>
CH: Id )'st $i%e to add somethin, "ea$ G'i!% a-o't them - de!ent"a$iEed a'tonomo's
o",aniEations. I "ead7 I thin%7 the (i"st #a#e" eve" ."itten that 'sed the te"m NAC. I
#"oo("ead it .hen I .as at Invi!t's. Stan La"ime" ."ote it and he did a "ea$$/ ,ood )o-.
No-od/ "ea$$/ ('$$/ 'nde"stands ho. to a!t'a$$/ -'i$d a de!ent"a$iEed a'tonomo's
o",aniEation G'ite /et. Eve"/-od/ %ee#s 'sin, the te"m. 5hat .e7 as an o",aniEation7 a"e
,oin, to do is .e"e ,oin, to %ind o( t"/ to "eso$ve one o( o'" iss'es in a ve"/ !"eative .a/.
5hen /o'"e a ,$o-a$ movement7 it doesnt "ea$$/ ma%e sense to -ase /o'" ,$o-a$ movement
in a #a"ti!'$a" $o!ation. &o" e9am#$e7 .h/ sho'$d 5i%i#edia -e -ased in7 $ets sa/7 the Onited
States7 o" E'"o#e7 o" AsiaB 5h/ sho'$d ICann7 .hi!h hand$es the domain names o( the
inte"net -e -ased in the Onited StatesB It ma%es no sense. Its a ,$o-a$ o",aniEation. 5hat i(
/o' !o'$d '#$i(t that o",aniEation and ma%e it $ive in the !$o'd and ma%e it $ive in the inte"net
and ,et the same $eve$ o( t"'st and #e"(o"man!eB 5hat .e"e ,oin, to do7 .o"%in, .ith
CoinTa$%7 is deve$o# a do!'menta"/ ove" 02 to 24 month #e"iod a(te" .e $a'n!h7 to ta%e o'"
!ent"a$ o",aniEation that mana,es the Ethe"e'm #"o)e!t and ,"ad'a$$/ !onve"t this ste# -/
ste# into a de!ent"a$iEed a'tonomo's o",aniEation. It .i$$ -asi!a$$/ -e!ome a Ho. To
Man'a$ and in a .a/ to en,a,e and evan,e$iEe /o'" !omm'nit/7 .e"e ,oin, to as% them to
!om#e$ othe" o",aniEations7 $i%e 5i%i#edia and 5i%i$ea%s7 to em-"a!e this mode$ as .e$$7 so
that .e !an see an eme",en!e o( a ne. !$ass o( !om#an/. &'"the"mo"e7 NAOs .he"e the
%i$$e" a##$i!ation (o" them a"e... its %ind o( ha"d (o" #eo#$e in 5este"n E'"o#e and the Onited
States to 'nde"stand this7 -'t i( /o' $ive in a deve$o#in, !o'nt"/ .he"e the "'$e o( $a. is not
ve"/ st"on,7 /o' 's'a$$/ have t.o o#tions .hen /o' "'n a -'siness. O#tion A /o' -"i-e a
$ot o( #eo#$e7 /o' ,et in ,ood .ith the ,ove"nment and the/ ,ive /o' a ,ove"nment
san!tioned -'siness. O#tion B /o' "'n eve"/thin, o(( the -oo%sH its in the ,"e/ a"ea. 5e
see this in China7 .e see this in C'-a7 .e see this a $ot in Latin Ame"i!a and So'th Ame"i!a
and A("i!a. ;24<14>
JM: Its "e(e""ed to as S/stem N and a##a"ent$/7 its a K02 t"i$$ion e!onom/. ;24<16>
CH: Ceah7 its amaEin,. A!t'a$$/7 Ive seen a!!o'ntants a!t'a$$/ have !o$'mns on thei"
s#"eadsheets that !a$$ them 8J'-$i! Se"vant &ees and the/"e )'st e((e!tive$/ -"i-es -'t thats
the on$/ o#tion /o' have. Those a"e the on$/ t.o #a"adi,ms that /o' have. Its "ea$$/ te""i-$e
-e!a'se its to9i! to !a#ita$ investment and its to9i! to a!t'a$$/ #"o#e" ent"e#"ene'"shi#.
5ith this de!ent"a$iEed a'tonomo's o",aniEation7 on!e Ethe"e'm has -een #"od'!ed7 "ea$$/
the %i$$e" a##$i!ation7 a (e. /ea"s in the ('t'"e7 on!e a$$ these %in%s a"e .o"%ed o't7 the "ea$
%i$$e" a##$i!ation is ,oin, to -e the thi"d o#tion. I( /o'"e in C'-a o" /o'"e in China7 /o'"e
sta"tin, an o",aniEation and /o'"e -'i$din, an o",aniEation7 no. /o' !an !hoose to em-"a!e
a NAO and #'t /o'" a!!o'ntin,7 #'t a$$ /o'" t"ans#a"en!/7 /o'" mana,ement into the
-$o!%!hain and the "'$es a"e the same no matte" .he"e /o'"e at in the .o"$d. Investo"s !an
$oo% at that and -e ass'"ed He/7 the Chinese ,ove"nment !ant sh't this do.n. The C'-an
,ove"nment !ant sh't this do.n. I !an sa(e$/ invest. I !an ,et an MOI and a$$ the "'$es a"e
#"ede(ined. The "e#'tation is inside the -$o!%!hain. 5e thin% this is "ea$$/ ,oin, to -"in, a
t"emendo's amo'nt o( innovation to the deve$o#in, .o"$d in the .a/ that the/ st"'!t'"e and
do -'siness. ;2L<30>
JM: 5hen /o' sa/ !ont"a!ts and .hen /o' sa/ o",aniEations7 .hats the di((e"en!e -et.een
a !ont"a!t and a NAO7 o" is it )'st a NAO is a se"ies o( !ont"a!tsB 5hat is thatB ;2L<03>
CH: Ceah. Thin,s a"e -'i$t in -$o!%s so Ethe"e'm sta"ts as a T'"in, !om#$ete s/stem and
the $an,'a,e has a s/nta97 "i,htB 5ith that $an,'a,e7 /o' !an !onst"'!t thin,s. 5e "ea$$/
em-"a!e this notion o( eme",in, !om#$e9it/ so its %ind o( $i%e !e$$'$a" a'tomata o" a sim#$e"
e9am#$e .o'$d -e sand d'nes7 .he"e ve"/ sim#$e thin,s a,,"e,ate to ve"/ !om#$e9
st"'!t'"es. The "eason .h/ -'i$din, a NAO is ha"d is -e!a'se no-od/ %no.s the #a"ti!'$a"
!on(i,'"ation o( sma$$ #ie!es G'ite /et to -'i$d '# to it. Ja"t o( o'" e9#e"iment is to identi(/
.hi!h !ont"a!ts have to -e $a/e"ed to,ethe" in )'st the "i,ht !on(i,'"ation to end '#
#"od'!in, an e((e!tive NAO. A !ont"a!t is $i%e the -'i$din, -$o!% and then /o' $a/e" the
-$o!%s to,ethe" to event'a$$/ #"od'!e an a!t'a$ ('n!tiona$ o",aniEation and these a"e G'ite
mod'$a". 5i%i#edia7 ne!essa"i$/ has to -e a di((e"ent entit/ than a #o$iti!a$ #a"t/ and that has
to ne!essa"i$/ -e a di((e"ent entit/ than a !$'-7 o" a t"ade ,"o'#7 o" ne!essa"i$/ a di((e"ent
#o$iti!a$ entit/ than a (o"-#"o(it !o"#o"ation and thats the -ea'ti('$ thin, a-o't havin,
a-st"a!t (o'ndation. I( /o' have a (eat'"e$ess s/stem7 it ,ives /o' the "o-'stness to -e a-$e to
en,inee" an/ !on(i,'"ation desi"ed -'t the -ea'ti('$ #a"t is7 on!e its -een -'i$t on!e7 its
!a$$ed the 8Sma"t Co. E((e!t its .hat de(eats NMM. On!e /o' de(eat a NMM s/stem7 one
sma"t #e"son has to do that its no. ,$o-a$$/ a!!essi-$e to eve"/-od/. I( /o've eve" "i##ed
a N+N7 /o' #"o-a-$/ .e"ent the #e"son .ho (i,'"ed o't ho. to do that7 it .as some-od/
e$se. The same dea$ .ith a de!ent"a$iEed a'tonomo's o",aniEation. The "eason .h/ .e"e so
!ommitted to the 'se" e9#e"ien!e is .e "ea$$/ .ant to -'i$d the "e(e"en!e !ont"a!t and then
,ive it to the .o"$d and then its a 8one-!$i!% o",aniEation and /o' )'st !han,e the
#a"amete"s. ;2A<44>
JM: +ita$i%7 the thin, I dont ,et is even no.7 (ive /ea"s into the 043 /ea" $i(e s#an o( )'st
the iss'an!e o( Bit!oin7 .e"e a$"ead/ havin, -$o!%!hain -$oat iss'es. Ho. is it /o' !an #'t
!ode into the -$o!%!hain and thats not ,oin, to -$oat the -$o!%!hainB Ho. is it .e !an have
tho'sands o" tens o( tho'sands o( these dist"i-'ted a'tonomo's !o"#o"ations "'nnin, inside a
-$o!%!hain7 have it a$$ -e "'nnin, on one -$o!%!hain and have the"e not -e $i%e massive $a,B
Ho. does that even .o"%B ;26<0=>
V: Its a -it o( a mis!on!e#tion .he"e a $ot o( #eo#$e7 .hen the/ see a-o't the idea7 the/
thin% that )'st -e!a'se its !om#'tation7 it means that it has to -e ha"d. The "ea$it/ is that
Ethe"e'm is not /o'" #e"sona$ AmaEon EC2 instan!e. The Ethe"e'm !$o'd is not ,oin, to -e
a-$e to do an/thin, that /o'" Sma"t#hone ("om 0DDD !annot do. The (ees a"e ,oin, to -e
simi$a" and #"ohi-itive$/ hi,h. Its not the #oint o( Ethe"e'm to "'n heav/ !om#'tations.
The #oint o( Ethe"e'm is to "'n thin,s $i%e -'siness $o,i!7 !om#'tations that "'n7 -asi!a$$/7
)'st en(o"!e the "'$es o( an o",aniEation. Is the n'm-e" o( votes ,"eate" than A3FB Is the
t"ansa!tions si,ne" the !o""e!t entit/ and so (o"thB Then7 the"es a$so ,oin, to -e some .ith
some.hat mo"e !om#$e9 !om#'tations to do va"io's !"/#to,"a#hi! va$idations -'t thats
#"ett/ m'!h the e9tent to .hi!h it ,oes. O$timate$/7 even !ode itse$( $i%e .e"e 'sin, a -/te
!ode and most o( the s!"i#ts that .e"e ,oin, to see "'nnin, in !ont"a!ts a"e ,oin, to -e $ess
than 033 -/tes o( !ode. It "ea$$/ is not that m'!h mo"e 'nmana,ea-$e than even Bit!oin and
even i( it t'"ns o't that it does -e!ome too -$oated7 then the"e a"e .a/s o( so"t o(
!om#"omisin, -et.een 'sin, Ethe"e'm and 'sin, a !om#$ete$/ se#a"ate s/stem. &o"
e9am#$e7 /o' !o'$d have a !om#$ete$/ se#a"ate s/stem that sto"es some data o((-!hain -'t
/o' 'se Ethe"e'm to a!t'a$$/ a'dit '#dates to the data. The"e a"e $ots o( di((e"ent
!om#"omises a$on, the .a/7 $i%e /o' !an do the data o((-!hain !om#'tation on-!hain o" /o'
!an do -oth o( them o((-!hain and have minin, on-!hain and so (o"th. The thin, is that even
i( /o' $oo% at .he"e Bit!oin is no.7 #eo#$e a"e sti$$ thin%in, o( va"io's o#timiEations that /o'
!an ma%e in o"de" to ma%e Bit!oin mo"e s!a$a-$e. Thats sti$$ (ive /ea"s a(te" the #"oto!o$
.as "e$eased. 5e dont need to have a$$ o( the so$'tions no.. 5hat matte"s is that .e have
the s!"i#tin, $an,'a,e and -e!a'se o( the !on!e#t o( T'"in, !om#$eteness7 the s!"i#tin,
$an,'a,e !an -e 'sed to im#$ement $ite"a$$/ an/thin, that !an #ossi-$/ -e im#$emented. I( a
so$'tion e9ists7 someone !o'$d )'st s$a# it on $ate". ;=3<0A>
CH: To add a #oint to this notion o( -$o!%!hain -$oat7 +ita$i% is ve"/ !o""e!t in sa/in, that
.e do thin,s in a s$i,ht$/ di((e"ent .a/ that ma%es it -ette" -'t its sti$$ a !ommon #"o-$em
(o" eve"/-od/ in the e!o-s/stem. I thin% its a "athe" 'n(ai" !"iti!ism to sa/ Oh .e$$7 /o'
didnt so$ve the #"o-$em and the"e(o"e7 /o' dont have a )'sti(i!ation to e9ist. Bit!oin has /et
to "eso$ve this #"o-$em. The/ a"e no.he"e nea" the t"ansa!tion vo$'me o( +isa o"
Maste"!a"d. The/ a"e no.he"e nea" the t"ansa!tion vo$'me o( sto!% e9!han,es and /et
the/ve ,"o.n to a doEen ,i,a-/tes in siEe. That is ,oin, to7 event'a$$/7 -e!ome ve"/
#"ohi-itive i( this ,"o.th !ontin'es in the mo-i$e s#a!e. Co'$$ neve" -e a-$e to "'n a ('$$
!$ient in the mo-i$e s#a!e. Co' have to a$.a/s em-"a!e SJ+ and7 event'a$$/7 thats ,oin, to
.o"% its .a/ !om#$ete$/ into /o'" $a#to#s and des%to#s .he"e no ones eve" ,oin, to .ant to
"'n a ('$$ node. That has #"o-$ems inside the e!o-s/stem. 5e7 as a #"o)e!t7 a"e !ommitted to
#a"tne"in, .ith a $ot o( #eo#$e in the s#a!e -e!a'se this is a !ommon #"o-$em. 5e"e ,oin,
to ,o to the Coin-ases and the BitJa/s7 .e"e ,oin, to ,o to the Maste"!oins and even the
BitSha"es and the Bit!oin !o"e deve$o#e"s and .o"% .ith some a!ademi! #a"tne"s and sa/
Listen7 this is a !ommon #"o-$em (o" eve"/-od/. Lets (i,'"e o't a .a/ to -ette" o#timiEe the
'se o( the -$o!%!hain. Thats the (i"st #oint. The se!ond #oint is "e!o,niEin, .he"e /o'
dont need to do thin,s on a -$o!%!hain. +ita$i% .as ve"/ "i,ht as he sa/s its a -'siness $o,i!
$a/e"7 in a sense. I( /o' .ant to do a #ee"-to-#ee" e9!han,e (o" e9am#$e7 /o' !o'$d
te!hni!a$$/ sto"e a$$ the t"ansa!tions on a -$o!%!hain. Thats one .a/ o( doin, it7 o" /o'
!o'$d do somethin, -ette"7 $i%e (o" e9am#$e7 O#en T"ansa!tions (OT) .hi!h a .onde"('$ e!o-
s/stem that Ch"is Odom #'t to,ethe" and /o' !o'$d ta%e a $ot o( the a'ditin, $o,i! .he"e it
sa/s 5e$$ /eah7 /o' "eG'i"e t"'st -'t its dist"i-'ted t"'st so it o',ht to -e ,ood eno',h and
sa/ 5e$$7 .e !an do /o' one -ette". Instead o( havin, %ind o( ,ood t"'st7 .e !an ,o no
t"'st. Co' !an "'n the t"'st $a/e" on the Ethe"e'm -$o!%!hain and then /o' !an "'n the enti"e
#ee"-to-#ee" e9!han,e on OT $a/e". That means the"e is no -$oat #"od'!ed7 o" ve"/ $imited
-$oat #"od'!ed7 ("om the a!t'a$ o#e"ation o( the #ee"-to-#ee" e9!han,e. Its an e9am#$e o(
.he"e /o' ,et .onde"('$ (eat'"es that !o'$d even im#$ement #otentia$$/ hi,h ("eG'en!/
t"adin,7 amon,st man/ othe" thin,s and /et /o' dont have to #a/ the #"i!e (o" it. Simi$a" to
data sto"a,e .e %ee# sa/in, 5e$$7 the"es this (ive $ine d"o#-o97 .e %ee# ta$%in, a-o't.
Ce"tain$/7 /o'"e not ,oin, to -e sto"in, the data on the -$o!%!hain. It .i$$ -e sto"ed in othe"
me!hanisms in othe" .a/s. The (ina$ #oint is this idea o( im#"ovin, the t"'st mode$ itse$( (o"
thin !$ients. Ma/-e /o' dont ne!essa"i$/ need to have a ('$$ node and ma/-e /o' dont
ne!essa"i$/ need to have G'ite an SJ+ node -'t i( the"e .as somethin, that !o'$d $ive in
-et.een7 .he"e /o' !o'$d have a mini(ied -$o!%!hain and some Ee"o %no.$ed,e #"oo(s and it
.o"%s (o" one o( those %inds o( o#tions too. 5eve seen some ,"eat7 ve"/ innovative
#"o#osa$s7 ove" the $ast (e. /ea"s7 that .e thin% a"e ,oin, to "ea$$/ a$$o. 's to have a -it o(
hete"o,eneit/ in the net.o"% -'t sti$$ the same "e$ative t"'st mode$ that Bit!oin has toda/.
;==<02>
JM: 5hen .e ta$% a-o't Ethe"e'm and /o' $et #eo#$es minds sin% into the idea o( an a,ent
"'nnin, on the -$o!%!hain o" !ode ,one .i$d7 the mind sta"ts to thin% a-o't a$$ the !"aE/
thin,s that !an ha##en to this and /o' see /o'"se$( movin, ("om #"o,"amin, to ma,i!. 5hat
I .ant to %no. is .hat !an Ethe"e'm a!t'a$$/ do and .hat a"e its $imitationsB It %ind o(
seems #"ett/ ma,i!a$ and I )'st .ant to %no. it is )'st a #"o,"am. 5hat !an it do and .hat
!ant it doB ;==<=D>
V: 5hat Ethe"e'm !an do7 /o' %no.7 .eve ,ot $ots o( e9am#$es in o'" 5hite #a#e" and
o'" othe" mate"ia$s. Co' !an do a domain "e,ist"ation7 /o' !an iss'e /o'" o.n !'""en!/7 /o'
!an do de!ent"a$iEed e9!han,e7 /o' !an have an identit/ s/stem7 /o' !an have a de!ent"a$iEed
so!ia$ net.o"%7 on--$o!%!hain ,am-$in, so de!ent"a$iEed SatoshiNi!e7 de!ent"a$iEed d"o#-o97
!"o# ins'"an!e7 (inan!ia$ de"ivatives and de!ent"a$iEed a'tonomo's o",aniEations. Thats a$$
st'(( that .e !an do. I$$ ,ive /o' one e9am#$e o( an in!"edi-$/ att"a!tive (eat'"e that .e
!ant do .hi!h is a ('$$ 033F t"'st-("ee !"/#to!'""en!/ .hose va$'e is as sta-$e as the OS
do$$a". In a $ot o( .a/s7 that is the Ho$/ @"ai$ o( !"/#to!'""en!/. I( /o' !an !"eate a
!"/#to!'""en!/ that maintains the va$'e7 thats at $east i( not e9a!t$/ the OS do$$a" -'t
maintains a va$'e that ($'!t'ates as $itt$e as (iat !'""en!ies do. That #"ett/ m'!h ta%es a.a/
one o(7 #"o-a-$/7 the $a",est #"o-$em (a!in, the Bit!oin e!onom/ toda/. 5e do !ome !$ose7
ho.eve"7 even tho',h .e do not so$ve that #a"ti!'$a" #"o-$em. 5hat .e have is .e !an 'se
this !on!e#t o( a hed,in, !ont"a!t .he"e t.o #eo#$e ente" into a !ont"a!t7 the/ -oth #'t in
K07333 .o"th o( Ethe" and then7 a(te" =3 da/s7 /o' ,et K07333 .o"th o( Ethe" -a!%. No.7 i(
the -$o!%!hain !o'$d someho. dis!ove"7 -/ ma,i!7 ho. m'!h Ethe" is K07333 .o"th o( Ethe"7
then .eve so$ved the #"o-$em -'t .e !ant7 so .e do need to "e$/ on eithe" a !ent"a$iEed
#"i!e (eed o" a votin, #oo$ o( #"i!e (eeds7 o" some simi$a" me!hanism. Its sti$$ a $ot $ess t"'st
than a$$ the othe" #"evio's s/stems invo$vin, iss'e"s -'t its not #e"(e!t. Anothe" e9am#$e7
Ethe"e'm !annot inte"a!t .ith the "ea$ .o"$d. An Ethe"e'm -$o!%!hain !annot di"e!t$/ -e
made a.a"e o( an/ %inds o( "ea$ .o"$d events. On!e a,ain7 /o' need some %ind o( o"a!$e to
te$$ /o' .hat the "ea$ .o"$d events a"e. ;=1<=2>
CH: These a"e notions o( ,ene"i! atta!%s. A ("iend o( mine -'i$ds $o!%s and he .as
!ont"a!ted -/ a !a" !om#an/ to -'i$d a ne. t/#e o( doo" $o!%. He said No matte" ho.
se!'"e /o' ma%e the doo" $o!%s o( the !a"7 the"es a$.a/s a .a/ some-od/ !o'$d stea$ it.
Co' sa/ 5h/B He said Nid /o' eve" see a to. t"'!%B Thats the #"o-$em. Co' !an -'i$d
a s/stem in!"edi-$/ se!'"e .ithin its o.n e!o-s/stem. Co' !an -'i$d a s/stem #e"(e!t$/
"o-'st .ithin its o.n e!o-s/stem. Ethe"e'm !an do ma,i!a$ thin,s. Bit!oin !an a!t'a$$/ do
some ve"/ ma,i!a$ thin,s. C"/#to!'""en!ies in ,ene"a$ !an -'t the moment /o' sta"t t/in,
Bit!oin o" Ethe"e'm to #h/si!a$ thin,s7 $i%e ,o$d o" oi$7 then /o' a!t'a$$/ invite t"'st -e!a'se
its a ,ene"i! atta!% at the s/stem. 5e sta"e at that same $imitation .ith a$$ thin,s - the same
$imitation .ith a NMM s/stem. Co' !an -'i$d .onde"('$ !"/#to -'t the moment that
some-od/ has a!!ess to a video7 the/ !an #'$$ a !am!o"de" o't and "e!o"d the movie the/"e
.at!hin, on the s!"een "e,a"d$ess o( ho. ,ood /o'" en!"/#tion a$,o"ithms a"e. This is the
!ommon (eat'"e. The"e a"e ,ene"i! atta!%s that do e9ist. The"e a"e ,ene"i! !ases that .e !an
neve" so$ve. +ita$i% is "i,ht. An/thin, in the #h/si!a$ .o"$d7 !"/#to!'""en!ies !annot so$ve.
;=L<44>
???????????????????????????????????????????????
!"VE#$:
This is Ch"is Jose#h -"in,in, /o' ne.s on N9t7 the (i"st t"'e se!ond ,ene"ation
!"/#to!'""en!/ (o" &e-"'a"/ 04
th
2304. BCNe9t7 the !"eato" o( N9t has "evea$ed Ja"t 2 o( his
(o'" #oint #$an (o" the !"/#to!'""en!/. He"e a"e th"ee %e/ #oints. &i"st7 the me!hanism (o"
dete"minin, .ho .i$$ (o",e the ne9t -$o!% .i$$ -e !om#$ete$/ dete"ministi!. This .i$$ a$$o.
-$o!%s to -e ,ene"ated at a (i9ed "ate .hi!h7 -/ the .a/7 !an -e ad)'sted. Se!ond7 minin,
"e.a"ds .i$$ -e o-so$ete. The t"'e "e.a"ds .i$$ !ome ("om se"vi!es -'i$t on to# o( N9t.
Thi"d7 N9t is intended to -e!ome a s/stem that doesnt need t"'st -e!a'se eve"/thin, .i$$ -e
t"ans#a"ent. 5hen its im#ossi-$e to !heat7 BCNe9t sa/s7 t"'st is i""e$evant. &o" the !om#$ete
essa/7 "ead BCNe9ts #$an (o" N9t at .....i%i.n9t!"/#to.o", and sta/ t'ned (o" mo"e ne.s
on N9t in the ne9t Lets Ta$% Bit!oin -"oad!ast. ;=A<44>
???????????????????????????????????????????????
JM: Ethe"e'm is doin, so"t o( a Maste"!oin st/$e "aise7 is that (ai" to sa/B ;=A<10>
CH: Ceah7 .e"e ,oin, to anno'n!e some mo"e detai$s a-o't o'" ('nd"aise" at a s$i,ht$/ $ate"
date. Thats %ind o( the notion. Its ,oin, to -e a !oin s.a# and .e$$ dis!'ss that at a
s$i,ht$/ $ate" date. ;=6<33>
JM: One o( the main !"iti!isms (o" the Ethe"e'm #"o)e!t is this notion o( a #"e-mine7 the
(o'nde"s #"e-mine and the investo"s #"e-mine. 5h/ is it ne!essa"/ to have #eo#$e have a
sta%e in this s/stemB 5h/ !ant the/ )'st ,et it $i%e eve"/one e$se in the .a/ that Invi!t's
Innovations .ent a-o't havin, a (ai" and eG'ita-$e #$a!e and then on!e the sta"tin, ,'n .ent
o((7 eve"/one had an eG'a$ !han!e at ,ettin, a #ie!e o( the #ieB ;=6<21>
CH: I thin% Invi!t's is7 a!t'a$$/7 one o( the (i"st ,"eat !ase st'dies o( .he"e this is not ,oin,
to .o"% an/mo"e. Eve"/-od/ .o'$d $i%e to em-"a!e the Satoshi Na%amoto mode$ o( $ets
)'st $a'n!h the net.o"% and mine and that .o"%s "ea$$/ .e$$ .hen /o' have a ve"/ sma$$ e!o-
s/stem -e!a'se /o'$$ end '# ,ettin, a $a",e amo'nt o( the !'""en!/ - n'm-e" one. N'm-e"
t.o - the !ost o( deve$o#in, Bit!oin .as G'ite sma$$. It .as7 aestheti!a$$/7 a ve"/ sma$$ ,"o'#
o( deve$o#e"s .ho .e"e .o"%in, on Bit!oin (o" most o( its ea"$/ histo"/ so the"e .as a$most
no deve$o#ment !ost7 i( an/. In the !ase o( these $a",e s!a$e #"o)e!ts7 the/ "eG'i"e h',e
amo'nts o( '#("ont !a#ita$. Co' have to do se!'"it/ a'dits7 /o' have so man/ thin,s that
need to o!!'" and so7 /o' have to em-"a!e this idea -e!a'se /o'"e ,oin, to have m'!h
di((e"ent minin, !om#etition7 as J"otoSha"es did7 I -e$ieve one thi"d o( the !'""en!/ -ase ,ot
mined o't in t.o .ee%s7 that idea o( )'st minin, on$/ dist"i-'tion is the -est .a/ o( doin, it.
Se!ond7 Invi!t's sta"ted to em-"a!e a Maste"!oin se$( ('nd"aise". The/ had this notion o(
An,e$ sha"es. 5h/B -e!a'se the/ didnt a!t'a$$/ ,et an/ mone/ ("om7 o" ve"/ $itt$e mone/7
("om the "e$ease o( J"otoSha"es. The/ .e"ent a-$e to a!G'i"e it. Jhi$oso#hi!a$$/7 $ets ta%e a
ste# -a!% and thin% .hat this #"o#osa$ means. Not on$/ do the deve$o#e"s have to #'t '# a$$
the !ost '#("ont7 the/ "e!eive a-so$'te$/ nothin, -'t no. the/"e !om#etin, .ith eve"/-od/
e$se in the e!o-s/stem and the/ have to s#end thei" o.n mone/ and time to a!G'i"e some o(
the !'""en!/ and thei" o.n mone/ and time to t"/ to ma%e the !'""en!/ va$'a-$e. That
doesnt seem to -e a ve"/ invitin, ent"e#"ene'"ia$ endeavo". Instead "athe"7 .e .o'$d $i%e to
$oo% at .hats ha##ened in vent'"e !a#ita$ and .hats ha##ened in Si$i!on +a$$e/ ove" the $ast
si9t/ /ea"s. I( /o' $oo% at the ,"eat s'!!ess sto"ies $i%e the @oo,$es7 and the AmaEons7 and
the &a!e-oo%s7 and the Mi!"oso(ts and so (o"th7 ,ene"a$$/ s#ea%in,7 /o' sta"t .ith a hi,h
amo'nt o( eG'it/ ("om the sta%eho$de"s .ho sta"ted the entit/7 the #eo#$e .ho -'i$t it. &o"
e9am#$e7 Bi$$ @ates had L4F o( Mi!"oso(t7 .hen Mi!"oso(t .as sta"ted. 5hat /o' .ant to
see is a ,ene"a$ dete"io"ation o( the (o'nde"s ho$din,s7 a ,ene"a$ divestment o( thei"
in($'en!e7 so Bi$$ @ates ho$ds7 I thin%7 1F o" LF o( Mi!"oso(t "i,ht no. sti$$ G'ite a $a",e
amo'nt o( mone/ and I thin% its ove" K03-n. Its #"ett/ ,ood to -e Bi$$ @ates -'t hes no
$on,e" as #o.e"('$ as he .as .hen the/ ($i##ed the s.it!h. Thats the same thin, .e"e
t"/in, to do he"e .ith Ethe"e'm. 5e "ea$$/ .ant to "eima,ine the notion o( vent'"e !a#ita$.
5e sa/ I( /o' !ome '# .ith a ,ood idea7 instead o( havin, to ,o th"o',h the t"aditiona$
seed "o'nd7 the Se"ies A7 the Se"ies B7 o" do some st"an,e %a-'%i .he"e /o' $a'n!h the
!'""en!/ ("om minin, and t"/ to !om#ete .ith a$$ the othe" mine"s someho.7 its #"o-a-$/
)'st a sim#$/ -ette" idea to -e as t"ans#a"ent as #ossi-$e and sa/ This is m/ sta%e7 this is
/o'" sta%e7 these a"e the te"ms7 do /o' .ant to on-oa"d7 /es o" noB C"eate a divestment
s!hed'$e so that7 ove" time7 the !'""en!/ s'##$/ -e!omes mo"e eG'ita-$e. I thin% #"e-mines
a"e te""i-$e .hen the !'""en!/ s'##$/ is (i9ed. &o" e9am#$e7 i( /o' have Bit!oin /o' have a
ma9im'm o( 20 mi$$ion !oins7 its a "ea$$/ -ad idea to sa/ this #e"son .i$$ o.n 1F o" 03F o(
Bit!oin (o"eve". Thats a "ea$$/ -ad idea to ,ive some-od/ that %ind o( endo.ment. 5ith
Ethe"e'm7 .e dont s'((e" ("om that #"o-$em. 5e have a $inea" #e"sistent in($ation mode$
.hi!h means the same amo'nt o( !oins a"e #"od'!ed #e" -$o!%7 so ove" time7 /o' see
dete"io"ation #e"!enta,e .ise o( the (o'nde"s ho$din,s -'t as the e!o-s/stem ,"o.s and mo"e
'ses o!!'"7 /o' see 's'a$$/ non-$inea" ,"o.th and demand7 so #eo#$es MOI is sti$$ ve"/ sta-$e
and the/ a!t'a$$/ ,et a ,ood "et'"n on thei" investment7 )'st $i%e eve"/-od/ in Mi!"oso(t ,ot a
ve"/ ,ood "et'"n on thei" investment -'t /o' a$so a!!om#$ish the d'a$ sta%e o( eG'ita-i$it/.
Co' have m'!h mo"e eG'a$ dist"i-'tion o( /o'" !'""en!/ -ase. I( /o' .ant to do thin,s $i%e
#"oo(-o(-sta%e7 thats in!"edi-$/ im#o"tant. I( /o' .ant to do thin,s $i%e -'i$din, NAOs7 .ith
!onsens's me!hanisms -ased '#on the !'""en!/ ho$de"s7 thats a$so in!"edi-$/ im#o"tant
-e!a'se i( /o' have a de($ationa"/ mode$ o" i( /o' have a (i9ed !'""en!/ mode$7 then a sma$$
o$i,a"!h/ .i$$ a$.a/s have !ont"o$ o( the net.o"%. 5e thin% this is the ni!est -a$an!e that .e
.e"e a-$e to (ind inside the e!o-s/stem. 5e sa/ He"e a"e the te"ms7 .e sta"t .ith7 initia$$/7
a (ai"$/ "o-'st #e"!enta,e7 ove" time the #e"!enta,e dete"io"ates than%s to the me!hani!s o(
in($ation that .eve deve$o#ed and .e have eve"/ in!entive a$i,ned. ;42<=4>
JM: It is o#en so'"!eB ;42<=1>
CH: Thats !o""e!t. ;42<=L>
JM: 5hats to sto# me ("om )'st doin, a ha"d (o"% ("om a ,enesis -$o!%B ;42<43>
CH: Co' !o'$d a-so$'te$/ do that and thats .hat .e !a$$ 8(i"in, the (o'nde"s. Its a ,"eat
idea in theo"/ -'t7 in #"in!i#$e7 it ,ene"a$$/ doesnt .o"%. I dont thin% a $ot o( Bit!oine"s $i%e
the OS ,ove"nment. The"e a"e "easons .h/ #eo#$e ente" a ma,i! inte"net !'""en!/7 "i,htB
5h/ havent the/ ha"d (o"%ed Bit!oin to "emove the OS ,ove"nments ho$din,s o( Bit!oinB
A(te" the N"ead Ji"ate Mo-e"ts seiE'"e7 the OS ,ove"nment !ont"o$s a meanin,('$ #e"!enta,e
o( Bit!oin. ;4=<34>
JM: It so'nds $i%e a ,ood idea. I !o'$d ,et -ehind that. ;4=<31>
CH: Ceah7 e9a!t$/. A $ot o( #eo#$e .o'$d a,"ee .ith that. The/ sa/ Ma/-e .e sho'$d
divest the OS ,ove"nment. This is a ,ood idea o" ma/-e some #eo#$e sa/ Satoshi is no
$on,e" #"od'!tive7 .h/ sho'$d he have 03F o( the !'""en!/ -ase (o"eve"B Jeo#$e .o'$d
have the notion to do this7 /et the/ dont. J'st $i%e #eo#$e .o'$d have the notion to 'se Bin,
i( the (eat'"es .e"e -ette"7 /et the/ a$.a/s seem to ente" @oo,$e.!om in the -"o.se". These
net.o"%s a"e not made va$'a-$e -/ the so'"!e !ode that im-'es them. The/"e made va$'a-$e
-/ the so!ia$ !onsens's .ithin the net.o"%. The/"e made va$'a-$e -/ the 'se" -ase in the
net.o"% and the in("ast"'!t'"e -'i$t a"o'nd the net.o"%. Mine"s a"e ,oin, to sta/ in the !hain
that has the hi,hest va$'e. That 's'a$$/ means the/"e ,oin, to sta/ on the !hain that .as
$a'n!hed (i"st. Investo"s a"e ,oin, to sta/ on the !hain .ith the #eo#$e that have the hi,hest
#"o-a-i$it/ o( addin, va$'e to the !hain. I( the (o'nde"s a"e a -'n!h o( idiots7 the/ mi,ht
ha"d (o"% and "emove the (o'nde"s and "e#$a!e them .ith othe"s to in!entiviEe it. Thats
a!t'a$$/ a "ea$$/ ,"eat o#tion to have -'t7 mo"e im#o"tant$/7 thats not a #"o-$em (o" the e!o-
s/stem -e!a'se i( /o' ha"d (o"%7 a$$ /o've "ea$$/ done is (i"e the (o'nde"s. Its on$/ a
#"o-$em (o" 's and thats ,"eat to ,ive that o#tion to the !omm'nit/. 5e have to %ind o( ea"n
the "i,ht to %ee# that. ;44<0A>
JM: I .as $oo%in, at the ma"%et !a#. Co' said $inea" #e"sistent in($ation. ;44<20>
CH: Thats !o""e!t. ;44<20>
JM: The"e a"e G'ite a n'm-e" o( Ee"os that "e$ates to the ma"%et !a# o( Ethe"e'm. Noes that
mean the"e is ,oin, to -e seve"a$ t"i$$ion 'nitsB ;44<2A>
CH: No7 thats not t"'e at a$$. Thats !om#$ete &ON. The"e a"e not ,oin, to -e seve"a$
t"i$$ion 'nits o( Ethe"e'm (o" a ve"/ $on, time. Theo"eti!a$$/7 one !o'$d "ea!h this. The
amo'nt o( Ethe"e'm #"od'!ed is ,oin, to -e #"o#o"tiona$ to the ('nd"aise". C'""ent$/7 the
('nd"aise" sa/s 0BTC P 07333 Ethe"7 and .e"e ,oin, to instit'te some (o"m o( ha"d !a# so
the"e .i$$ -e a ma9im'm dist"i-'tion o( Ethe". I( .e "aise7 I dont %no.7 =37333 BTC7 then
.e$$ #"od'!e some set o( Ethe". Eve"/ /ea"7 .e$$ #"od'!e .4Q o( that. 5e"e not ,oin, to
"ea!h massive amo'nts... man/7 man/ t"i$$ions o( Ethe" (o" G'ite some time7 'n$ess m/ math
is !om#$ete$/ o((. Is it +ita$i%B ;41<3A>
V: No7 /o'" math is not !om#$ete$/ o(( Cha"$es. ;41<3D>
CH: Ceah7 I didnt thin% so. Some #eo#$e seem to !on('se the ma9im'm amo'nt o( Ethe"
that !o'$d -e made in /ea" 037333 o" the /ea" 237333 .ith the amo'nt o( Ethe" in dist"i-'tion
toda/. Lets ,o th"o',h some n'm-e"s "ea$ G'i!% so .e !an %ind o( ,et an idea o( the ma"%et
!a#ita$iEation -e!a'se this is ve"/ im#o"tant (o" #eo#$e. Lets sa/ .e have a ve"/ s'!!ess('$
s.a# and Bit!oin is va$'ed at a"o'nd K633-K643 and .e "aise =37333 BTC. 5ith the #"e-
mine (a!to"ed in .ith the IJO7 the initia$ ma"%et !a#ita$iEation7 at $a'n!h7 (meanin, a(te" the
IJO has !on!$'ded) .i$$ -e K=Am7 ,ive o" ta%e. 5ith $inea" #e"sistent in($ation7 (o" ne't"a$
MOI7 /o'd have to add a-o't K02m #e" /ea" to the e!o-s/stem in va$'e. M/ shi"t Im
.ea"in, "i,ht no. has (ive $ines o( !ode on the -a!% o( it .hi!h !om#$ete$/ "e#$i!ates
Name!oin and Name!oins .o"th that m'!h. Im #"ett/ !e"tain .e !an "ea!h a ma"%et !a#
that hi,h .ithin /ea" one. In (a!t7 I -e$ieve7 #"o-a-$/ hi,he". I thin% the MOI #"o#osition7 (o"
investo"s7 is G'ite ni!e. 5e .e"e "ea$$/ !a"e('$ a-o't ho. .e desi,ned this so that .e !o'$d
see -a$an!e in o'" e!o-s/stem. 5e "ea$$/ .o'$d $i%e to see a $ot o( -a$an!e in o'" e!o-s/stem.
5e .ant to have eve"/ #a"t/7 .hethe" the/ -e a s#e!'$ato"7 ma/-e a mine"7 ma/-e an
a##$i!ation deve$o#e" on to# o( the Ethe"e'm e!o-s/stem and -e a-$e to ,et a #ositive MOI
("om thei" endeavo" and -e a-$e to !han,e thin,s .ith the e!o-s/stem. 5e (ee$ that this
mode$ is "ea$$/ the -est o( o'" .o"$d. 5e !o'$d !e"tain$/ -e ."on, and the -ea'ti('$ thin,
a-o't the o#en so'"!e movement is that #eo#$e !an ta%e .hateve" .eve done as .eve ta%en
some ins#i"ation ("om Bit!oin and those .ho have !ome the"e -e(o"e it7 and !han,e it and
ma/-e so(t (o"% o" ha"d (o"% it. Thats "ea$$/ the -ea't/ o( the s/stem -e!a'se7 in the end7 the
'$timate .inne" "e,a"d$ess o( .hat ha##ens7 is the !ons'me". ;4L<16>
JM: 5e$$7 than% /o' so m'!h. I %no. /o'"e a-o't to #ass o't a(te" the hand('$ o( ho'"s
/o've s$e#t in the #ast !o'#$e o( da/s. ;4A<31>
CH: Ceah7 I thin% Ive a!t'a$$/ -een '# (o" a-o't t.o da/s st"ai,ht no.. ;4A<36>
JM: +ita$i%7 than%s so m'!h. ;4A<3D>
V: Its -een a $ot o( ('n. ;4A<00>
?????????????????????????????????????????
%C: Hi7 Im B"ian &a-ian C"ain. ;4A<2A>
&C: Im Se-astien Co't'"e. ;4A<26>
%C: 5e a"e the !o-hosts o( E#i!ente" Bit!oin .he"e .e #$a/ #od!asts on Bit!oin ne.s and
deve$o#ments. 5e .e"e )'st at the Inside Bit!oins !on(e"en!e in Be"$in. It ended /este"da/7
so its &"ida/ no. and .eve had t.o "ea$$/ vi-"ant da/s ta$%in, to tons o( #eo#$e doin, $ots
o( inte"vie.s and .e"e ,oin, to te$$ /o' a-o't the !on(e"en!e and o'" e9#e"ien!e the"e.
Se-astien7 do /o' .ant to sta"tB ;4A<13>
&C: Ceah. I )'st .ant to sa/ (i"st o( a$$ that this is %ind o( an 'n's'a$ settin, (o" 's -e!a'se
's'a$$/ B"ian and I a"e ta$%in, on S%/#e and this is the (i"st time that .e do a #od!ast
se,ment sittin, a!"oss ("om ea!h othe". ;46<30>
%C: Thats "i,ht. Os'a$$/7 .e"e a (e. tho'sand %i$omete"s a.a/ ("om ea!h othe" and .e
sa. ea!h othe" (o" the (i"st time in "ea$ $i(e this .ee%7 so that .as "ea$$/ e9!itin, too. ;46<3D>
&C: 5hat .as /o'" ta%ea.a/ on the !on(e"en!eB ;46<00>
%C: It .as a ve"/ vi-"ant atmos#he"e7 I thin%. Jeo#$e a"e ve"/ e9!ited. Co' !an (ee$ that
the"es this -e$ie( that .e"e on the !'s# o( somethin, "ea$$/ -i,. I thin% that .as one o( the
main ta%ea.a/s .as this ,"eat atmos#he"eH this ,"eat sense o( -e,innin, o( somethin,
im#o"tant. ;46<==>
&C: Ceah. The im#"ession I ,ot ("om s#ea%in, to a$$ the #eo#$e that .e ta$%ed to the"e is that
2304 is the /ea" Bit!oin -$o.s '#. This .as m/ (i"st Bit!oin !on(e"en!e. M/ main ta%ea.a/
is that the Bit!oin s!ene is ve"/7 ve"/ vi-"ant7 es#e!ia$$/ the @e"man Bit!oin s!ene7 in !ont"ast
to &"an!e7 .he"e not m'!h is ha##enin,. Its )'st -e,innin,. An/.a/7 he"e in Be"$in7
#a"ti!'$a"$/ in @e"man/7 thin,s a"e movin, a$on, G'ite ni!e$/. Anothe" thin, I noti!ed is that
the"e .e"e G'ite a (e. Ame"i!ans the"e investo"s7 ent"e#"ene'"s7 #eo#$e inte"ested in
Bit!oin (o" di((e"ent "easons and that te$$s me that Ame"i!ans a"e "ea$iEin, that the"e a"e
thin,s ha##enin, he"e in Bit!oin7 so I thin% thats .h/ the"e .as s'!h a hi,h Ame"i!an
attendan!e. ;4D<0=>
%C: Ceah7 its a ve"/ inte"nationa$ s!ene and I thin% thats e9!itin,. I thin% its e9!itin,7 in
,ene"a$7 a-o't this Bit!oin !omm'nit/. Its a "ea$$/ ,$o-a$ thin, and I thin% thats ,"eat. One
thin, I .ant to -"ie($/ ta$% a-o't that its -een %ind o( s'"#"isin, and that is that the"e .e"e
on$/ a (e. t"aditiona$ vent'"e !a#ita$ists. Ive seen that in va"io's !onte9ts .he"e #eo#$e
ta$%ed a-o't that .e a"e on the !'s# o" .ave o( Bit!oin sta"t-'#s and a .ave o( vent'"e
!a#ita$ mone/ ($o.in, into Bit!oin. I thin% o( t"aditiona$ +Cs7 I .as on$/ a.a"e o( Jami"
("om H'mmin,-i"d -'t7 a#a"t ("om that7 the"e .as a $ot Bit!oin investo"s .ho -o',ht some
-it!oins and no. the/"e invo$ved in the Bit!oin s!ene -'t the/"e not ("om the t"aditiona$
sta"t-'# -a!%,"o'ndH the/"e no. t"/in, to -'i$d Bit!oin !om#anies. Ma/-e thats !omin,
and ma/-e thats mo"e the !ase in the OS -'t he"e7 it .asnt .he"e I e9#e!ted it to -e.
;13<36>
&C: I thin% it .as Matt MosEa% .ho said this &o" the time -ein,7 the"e is on$/ a-o't K033m
in +C mone/ ,oin, to Bit!oin sta"t-'#s .hi!h is nothin,. ;13<06>
%C: Ces. ;13<0D>
&C: Thats ,oin, to ,"o. e9#onentia$$/ ove" the ne9t /ea" and ove" the ne9t /ea"s to !ome.
;13<22>
%C: Ceah7 .e !e"tain$/ e9#e!t that. That %ind o( -"in,s me -a!% to a di((e"ent #oint .hi!h
I ta$%ed .ith Thomas Hess$e" .ho is an An,e$ investo" he"e and the (o'nde" o( a ve"/
s'!!ess('$ !om#an/ and hes -een $oo%in, at Bit!oin sta"t-'#s in Be"$in. 5e .e"e ta$%in,
a-o't this and that is that the"e is a ve"/ vi-"ant !omm'nit/ he"e in Be"$in and the"e a"e a $ot
o( s'!!ess('$ sta"t-'#s $i%e So'nd!$o'd o" a $ot o( e-!omme"!e !om#anies. Its ve"/ a!tiveH
a $ot o( meet-'#s and a $ot o( !on(e"en!es -'t o( those #eo#$e7 none .e"e at the Bit!oin
!on(e"en!e. I thin% this ta$%s a #"o-$em .e have he"e .hi!h is a "ea$ se#a"ation -et.een the
Bit!oin !omm'nit/ and the "e,'$a" sta"t-'# !omm'nit/. I thin% to "ea$$/ ta%e the Bit!oin
sta"t-'#s in the e!o-s/stem to the ne9t $eve$7 .hats "ea$$/ im#o"tant he"e is that .e have
mo"e o( an inte,"ation o( )'st the #eo#$e .ho have %no.$ed,e o( -'i$din, sta"t-'#s and the
#eo#$e .ho have %no.$ed,e o( Bit!oin. ;10<0D>
&C: 5hat do /o' thin% needs to ha##en (o" thatB ;10<22>
%C: Jeo#$e in the sta"t-'# !omm'nit/7 at $east he"e7 have not !om#"ehended /et ho.
im#o"tant Bit!oin is and ho. massive this o##o"t'nit/ is7 i( /o'"e $oo%in, into -'i$din,
-'sinesses. I thin% thats the #"o-$em -e!a'se7 o( !o'"se7 i( the/ did7 at $east ("om m/
#e"s#e!tive (Im not e9a!t$/ o-)e!tive he"e in this !onte9t) -'t7 ("om m/ #e"s#e!tive7 i( the/
did ,"as# this then7 o( !o'"se7 /o' .o'$d !ome to this !on(e"en!e7 o( !o'"se /o' .o'$d sta"t
thin%in, a-o't ho. !an I 'se Bit!oin to do somethin, amaEin,. Thats not ha##enin, /etH not
on a s!a$e7 at $east. I thin% .hats needed (o" this to ha##en is ed'!ation. 5e need to "ea!h
o't to the sta"t-'# !omm'nit/ and tea!h them a-o't this. Im ,ivin, a .o"%sho# in Ma/ at a
$a",e sta"t-'# !on(e"en!e he"e on Bit!oin. Thin,s $i%e that a"e needed .he"e /o' ,o to .he"e
the/ a"e... ;12<01>
&C: Ceah7 .e need to evan,e$iEe. ;12<0L>
%C: A-so$'te$/. ;12<0A>
&C: Not on$/ .ith sta"t-'#s -'t )'st .ith #eo#$e in ,ene"a$7 I thin%. ;12<23>
%C: T"'e -'t I thin% the"es a "ea$$/ -i, need7 es#e!ia$$/7 to evan,e$iEe .ith #eo#$e in the
te!h !omm'nit/ and the sta"t-'# !omm'nit/ -e!a'se the/ a"e the ones .ho a"e ,oin, to -'i$d
the a##s7 ,oin, to -'i$d the a##$i!ations -e!a'se the/$$ do amaEin, thin,s that .i$$ ,et 's to
mass ado#tion. ;12<==>
&C: J'st to'!hin, on mass ado#tion7 the !onve"sation I had .ith G'ite a (e. #eo#$e is that
.e"e on the !'s# o( movin, to.a"ds mass ado#tion7 $i%e that ho!%e/ sti!% !'"ve is ,oin, to
sta"t ,oin, '# ve"/ soon and in o"de" (o" that to ha##en7 .e need to ,et o't o( this %ind o(
te!hni!a$ as#e!t o( Bit!oin and ,et into 'se" se"vi!es so that the 'sa-i$it/ o( Bit!oin needs to
-e!ome m'!h -ette". B/ 'sa-i$it/7 .e mean that )'st a "e,'$a" #e"son !an !"eate a se!'"e7
eas/ to 'se7 a!!essi-$e Bit!oin .a$$et7 not have to .o""/ a-o't s!annin, a IM !ode o" dea$in,
.ith add"esses7 o" .hat have /o'. This .i$$ ma%e mass ado#tion o!!'". 5e "ea$$/ need to
.o"% and (i$$ that ,a# in -et.een the te!hni!a$ as#e!ts o( Bit!oin and the 'sa-i$it/ o( Bit!oin.
J'st $oo% at sendin, emai$ toda/H most #eo#$e that send emai$s have no idea .hat an SMTJ
se"ve" is. 5e need to ma%e Bit!oin -e!ome a seam$ess se"vi!e. I thin% that on!e that
ha##ens... and I a$so dis!'ssed a-o't this .ith someone and she as%ed me 5he"e do /o'
see this !on(e"en!e in (ive /ea"sB 5he"e do /o' see Bit!oin !on(e"en!es in (ive /ea"sB M/
"es#onse to that .as I dont %no.... .e$$ !e"tain$/ have Bit!oin !on(e"en!es -'t /o'"e
,oin, to see Bit!oin movin, into home and ,a"den !on(e"en!es7 o" .hateve" -e!a'se #eo#$e
("om that !omm'nit/ .i$$ !"eate #"od'!ts and se"vi!es a"o'nd Bit!oin !"/#to!'""en!/ that
!an se"ve thei" needs. I thin% that .e"e ,oin, to see Bit!oin move into othe" se!to"s7 as .e$$7
and not )'st sta/ %ind o( this ni!he thin,. ;1=<1A>
%C: I thin% thats ,oin, to -e a -i, t"end. Co' to'!hed no. on somethin, inte"estin, .hen
/o' ta$%ed a-o't .he"e !on(e"en!es a"e ,oin,. Thats somethin, Ive -een .at!hin, .ith
amaEement is this e9#$osion o( the !on(e"en!e s!ene. I mean7 .eve seen this a$"ead/ -'t it
seems .hats !omin, '# is )'st o( a .ho$e di((e"ent ma,nit'de. 5e ta$% a-o't e9#onentia$
,"o.th in a $ot o( !onte9ts -'t I thin% the"e a"e a (e. !onte9ts .he"e this is )'st so a##a"ent
and massive as in !on(e"en!es. I .as ta$%in, .ith (ive di((e"ent #eo#$e at this !on(e"en!e that
a"e ea!h o",aniEin, a !on(e"en!e this /ea" .he"e the/ a"e e9#e!tin, mo"e than a tho'sand
#eo#$e. Thats amaEin,. ;14<=D>
&C: Thats o'tside o( the MediaBist"o !on(e"en!es. Thats inde#endent !on(e"en!es o" othe"
o",aniEations. ;14<41>
%C: E9a!t$/ and the MediaBist"o #eo#$e7 the/ve ta$%ed a-o't #'ttin, on7 I thin%7 D o" 03
Bit!oin !on(e"en!es this /ea" a$one. Thats astonishin, and7 I thin%7 the/ .e"e mentionin, at
thei" ne9t !on(e"en!e7 o" at the !on(e"en!e the/ a"e doin, in Ne. Co"% in a (e. months7 the/
a"e e9#e!tin, =-47333 #eo#$e. The"e .as a massive Bit!oin !on(e"en!e #$anned in Te9as7 in
I"e$and7 in Chi!a,o and in Bonn in @e"man/. Its astonishin,. ;11<06>
&C: Thats !"aE/. I( /o' .ant to s'-s!"i-e to o'" #od!ast7 /o' !an (ind 's on iT'nes7
Stit!he"7 o" an/ othe" #od!ast a,,"e,ato". Co' !an a$so (ind 's on T.itte" .e"e
Re#i!ente"-t! and .e$$ -e doin, a se"ies o( e#isodes in addition to o'" "e,'$a" S'nda/
e#isode7 ove" the ne9t (i(teen da/s o" so7 .he"e .e$$ -e "e$easin, a $ot o( this !ontent. 5eve
,ot an e#isode $ined '# .he"e .e inte"vie.ed a -'n!h o( #eo#$e at Moom AA7 .hi!h most o(
/o' .i$$ %no. as the (i"st -"i!%-and-mo"ta" esta-$ishment to a!!e#t Bit!oin. 5e a$so have
doEens o( inte"vie.s that .e did on the !on(e"en!e ($oo"7 )'st %ind o( in(o"ma$ inte"vie.s
.ith #eo#$e ("om the !omm'nit/ and a$so .e$$ -e "e$easin, some o( the most in($'entia$
ta$%s that .e #a"ti!i#ated in. ;1L<33>
%C: Ceah and i( /o'"e inte"ested in Bit!oin ne.s and deve$o#ments7 /o' !an a$so si,n '#
(o" a .ee%$/ ne.s$ette". 5e send o't a Bit!oin ne.s$ette" eve"/ &"ida/ .he"e .e ana$/se the
ne.sH .hats -een ,oin, on. Co' !an si,n '# (o" that at
....e#i!ente"-it!oin.!omSne.s$ette". ;1L<0A>
????????????????????????????????????????????
C#E"'$&:
Than%s (o" $istenin, to E#isode 64 o( Lets Ta$% Bit!oin.
8Ethe"e'm Ho'se .as #"od'!ed Jonathan Mohan7 edited -/ Matthe. Ti#%in and
Adam B. Levine
8Be"$in O#date .as #"ovided !o'"tes/ o( E#i!ente" Bit!oin7 .ith additiona$ editin,
-/ Adam B. Levine
M'si! .as #"ovided -/ Ja"ed M'-ens and @ene"a$ &'EE
I'estions o" !ommentsB Emai$ adamR$etsta$%-it!oin.!om.
Have a ,ood one: ;1L<43>