Palestine and Israel

Mr Speaker:
A manuscript amendment standing in the name of the right hon. Member for
Blackburn (Mr Straw) and others has been tabled this morningcopies are available
in the Vote !ceand " have selected it. "n a moment# " shall call Mr $rahame M.
Morris to move the motion. "t might be for the convenience of the %ouse for Members
to be told that no fewer than &' right hon. and hon. Members are seeking to catch
m( e(e# in conse)uence of which " am sorr( to have to sa( that there will need to be
a *ve+minute limit on Back+Bench contributions. " understand that at some point#
probabl( around the middle of the debate# the Minister and the shadow Minister wish
to contribute. ,he( are not# of course# so constrained# but " am sure that the( will
want sensitivel( to tailor their speeches# taking account of the level of interest of
their Back+Bench colleagues. Similarl(# the hon. Member for -asington ($rahame M.
Morris) is not sub.ect to the *ve+minute limit# but " know that he will aspire to retain
or to gain the warm regard of his colleagues and will therefore not seek to detain the
%ouse be(ond /& minutes# and preferabl( not be(ond /0.
Crispin Blunt (Reigate) (Con):
n a point of order# Mr Speaker.
Mr Speaker:
"f the hon. $entleman must.
Crispin Blunt:
"t is pertinent to the issue of amendments. An amendment standing in the name of
m( hon. 1riend the Member for Aberconw( ($uto Bebb) has been tabled# and " have
been given two accounts as to whether it has been withdrawn or not selected. "
would be grateful if (ou could illuminate the %ouse# Mr Speaker.
Mr Speaker:
" am ver( happ( to illuminate the %ouse. ,hat amendment has not been selected2 the
amendment selected is that in the name of the right hon. Member for Blackburn. " am
grateful to the hon. Member for raising the point.
&.34 pm
Grahame M. Morris (Easington) (La):
" beg to move#
,hat this %ouse believes that the $overnment should recognise the state of 5alestine
alongside the state of "srael.
" wish to place on record m( thanks to the Backbench Business 6ommittee for
allocating time in the main 6hamber for what is obviousl(# given the number of
Members from all parts of the %ouse who have indicated support# a ver( popular and
timel( debate. Ma( " sa( at the outset that " am happ( to support the amendment
standing in the name of m( right hon. 1riend the Member for Blackburn (Mr Straw)
and various other Members7 "t has alwa(s been m( position that recognition of
5alestinian statehood should form the basis of an( future peace negotiations# and the
amendment clari*es that.
Ian Paisle! ("orth #ntrim) ($%P):
8ill the hon. $entleman give wa(7
Grahame M. Morris:
" will# but " suspect " will have to be careful about giving wa(# given the time.
Ian Paisle!:
As the hon. $entleman knows# his part( pla(ed a phenomenall( important role in the
peace process in 9orthern "reland# one of the world:s most successful peace
processes. 8h( not learn from that e;perience and# instead of setting the conclusion
at the beginning of the debate# wait for the debate and the negotiation to take place
in order to reach the conclusion7
Grahame M. Morris:
" thank the hon. $entleman for that intervention butif he will bear with me" hope
to be able to destro( that argument comprehensivel(.
" am *rml( of the opinion that the da( will come when the two+state solution# which "
believe is supported b( all parties on both sides of the %ouse# will collapse and "srael
will face a South African+st(le struggle for e)ual voting rights. As soon as that
happens# the state of "srael is *nished. %on. Members might think that that is
controversial# but the( are not reall( m( words but those of the then "sraeli 5rime
Minister in '00<.
,he two+state solution has been Britain:s stated polic( aim for decades# but in politics
talk often comes cheap. " have participated in numerous debates in 8estminster %all
and in the main 6hamber where " have heard speeches delivered b( Back Benchers
from both sides of the %ouse and from Ministers at the =ispatch Bo; stating our
commitment to a two+state solution
Mrs Cher!l Gillan (Chesham and #mersham) (Con):
Ma( " sa( that man( people support the two+state solution7 8ill he also con*rm that
more than >00 "sraeli *gures signed a letter on Sunda( urging this 5arliament to vote
in favour of the motion# and the( included former Ministers# e;+diplomats and
activists in "srael7
Grahame M. Morris:
" am grateful to the right hon. ?ad( for her intervention. As a friend of 5alestine# "
earnestl( believe that recognition of the state of 5alestine is the onl( wa( forward#
and that it should be the choice of all true friends of "srael. All parties should come
together on that basis. $iven our commitment to a two+state solution and the fact
that an overwhelming ma.orit( of />3 nations voted in favour of 5alestinian
statehood# " was hugel( disappointed b( our decision to abstain on the issue at the
@9 $eneral Assembl(. 8e should regret that decision.
Mr &im Cunningham (Co'entr! South) (La):
,here were no boundaries when the state of "srael was created# so there should be no
prere)uisite for the recognition of a 5alestinian state.
Grahame M. Morris:
" am grateful to m( hon. 1riend. " should like to make some progress# so that all
Members who have e;pressed a wish to speak have the opportunit( to make their
own speci*c points.
,he decision that was taken at the @9 $eneral Assembl( placed Britain not onl( at
odds with the international consensus# but on the wrong side of histor(. Although this
is a cross+part( debate" want to pa( tribute to all colleagues from all parts of the
%ouse who have supported the motion" have to sa( that# as a ?abour M5# " was
proud when m( part( opposed the $overnmentAs decision and said that the British
$overnment should be willing to support the recognition of 5alestinian statehood. "
am proud# too# that ?abour is supporting toda(As call to recognise 5alestine.
Caroline Lu(as (Brighton) Pa'ilion) (Green)
rose
Grahame M. Morris:
" will give wa( .ust one more time.
Caroline Lu(as:
,he hon. $entleman is ver( kind to give wa(# and " congratulate him on securing this
debate. =oes he agree that this is an unprecedented moment7 Sweden has alread(
moved to recognise 5alestine. "f we do not grasp this moment# we will lose a real
opportunit( to push this matter forward and to move closer to peace.
Grahame M. Morris:
" absolutel( agree with the hon. ?ad(. As the originator of the Balfour declaration and
holder of the mandate for 5alestine# Britain has a uni)ue historical connection and#
arguabl(# a moral responsibilit( to the people of both "srael and 5alestine. "n /B'0#
we undertook a sacred trusta commitment to guide 5alestinians to statehood and
independence. ,hat was nearl( a centur( ago# and the 5alestinian people are still to
have their national rights recognised. ,his sacred trust has been neglected for far too
long. As the hon. ?ad( has .ust said# we have an historic opportunit( to atone for that
neglect# and take this small but s(mbolicall( important step.
Mrs Louise Ellman (Li'erpool) Ri'erside) (La*Co+op):
8ill m( hon. 1riend give wa(7
Grahame M. Morris:
" would rather not. " am sure that m( hon. 1riend will have an opportunit( to speak
later. " wish to make some progress.
,he former Secretar( of State for 1oreign and 6ommonwealth ACairs and the current
?eader of the %ouse# the right hon. Member for Dichmond (Eorks) (Mr %ague)# who is
not in his place# told the %ouse that the two+state solution might become impossible
if a settlement were not reached within a (ear. ,hat was in '0/'two (ears ago. "
am pleased to see that the Minister is listening attentivel(# as " e;pect him to stand
at the =ispatch Bo; and tell us that we support a two+state solution and that we
encourage all parties to return to negotiations. " advise him to keep hold of his
speech# because he will soon have another opportunit( to use it given the failure of
so man( similar initiatives.
"t is now more than '0 (ears since the slo accords# and we are further awa( from
peace than ever before. An entire generation of (oung 5alestiniansthe slo
generationhas grown up to witness a worsening situation on the ground. 8e have
seen a signi*cant e;pansion of illegal "sraeli settlements# heightened securit( threats
to both sides# punitive restrictions on 5alestinian movement# economic decline# a
humanitarian crisis in $aFa of catastrophic proportions and the construction of an
illegal anne;ation wall through 5alestinian land.
"t is clear that both "srael+5alestine relations and our foreign polic( are at an impasse#
which must be broken. 8e hear a great deal of talk about the two+state solution.
,oda(# through validating both states# Members will have the opportunit( to translate
all that principled talk into action# but we should be under no illusionstoda( might
be a s(mbolicall( important step# but it will not change the facts on the ground. ,he
continuous blockade of the $aFa strip will not relent and the da(+to+da( realit( of life
under occupation will not change for the ordinar( 5alestinians. pponents of the
motion will use the well+worn argument that statehood should come through
negotiations and not unilateral action.
?et us make no mistake about thisG to make our recognition of 5alestine dependent
on "srael:s agreement would be to grant "srael a veto over 5alestinian self+
determination.
Mr &onathan $,anogl! (-untingdon) (Con):
8ill the hon. $entleman give wa( on that point7
Grahame M. Morris:
?et me *nish this point# and then " will give wa( for the last time. 8e have had a
huge debate on giving up sovereignt( to the -@. British people ma( or ma( not
disagree with that argument# but the( and their representatives here in this %ouse
would feel that it was completel( wrong in practice and in principle if another
sovereign state# be it "srael or an( other countr(# determined our foreign polic(.
Mr $,anogl!:
"srael:s peace treaties with -g(pt and Hordan involved bilateral negotiations and
agreement on both sides. 8h( does the hon. $entleman think that it would work now
unilaterall(7
Grahame M. Morris:
,he evidence of histor( is wh(. ,went( (ears of negotiations have failed# so we need
to move things on. " *rml( believe that we can all rall( around this eCort# and that
that would achieve the desired results.
#ndre. Per(! (Brigg and Goole) (Con)
rose
Grahame M. Morris:
9o# " am afraid " will not give wa(.
Decognition is not an "sraeli bargaining chip2 it is a 5alestinian right. "t is one that has
to form the basis of an( serious negotiations. "ndeed# the lack of e)uit( between
"srael and the 5alestinians is a structural failure that has undermined the possibilit( of
a political settlement for decades. As it stands# "srael has little motivation or
encouragementperhaps little incentive is a better wa( of putting itto enter into
meaningful negotiations. ,he ma.orit( of "sraeli $overnment politicians Iat+out re.ect
the notion of a 5alestinian state. ,here are currentl( no negotiations and# as
Secretar( of State Hohn Jerr( admitted# it was "sraeli intransigence that caused the
collapse of the latest round of talks.
"srael has been unwilling to oCer a viable 5alestinian state through negotiations. "f
the acceleration of the illegal settlement enterprise had not alread( proved that# in
Hul( "sraeli 5rime Minister Bin(amin 9etan(ahu once again ruled out ever accepting a
sovereign 5alestinian state in the west bank.
#ndre. Per(!:
8ill the hon. $entleman give wa( on that point7
Grahame M. Morris:
9o# " will not give wa(.
?et me be clearG to make recognition dependent on negotiations# as some Members
advocate# is to re.ect the two+state solution. Some argue that b( recognising
5alestine# we would undermine negotiations or somehow incite violence# but it is the
s(stematic denial of rights that incites violence and emboldens those who re.ect
politics. ,he knowledge that Britain# once again# is refusing to recognise the rights of
the 5alestinian people will serve onl( to validate those who re.ect diplomac( and to
demonstrate the futilit( of the eCorts of moderates on both sides.
De.ectionists in both "srael and 5alestinethose who oppose an( t(pe of political
settlementwill be delighted to learn that the British 5arliament has refused what
the vast ma.orit( of states have alread( accepted. Members should bear that in mind
before the( cast their vote. ,hose 5alestinians who have pursued the path of
diplomac( and non+violence for more than '0 (ears have achieved ver( little. 8e
need to send them a message and give them encouragement that it is the path of
peace and co+operation# and not the resorting to force of arms# that will actuall( lead
to a lasting and .ust peace. "t will also send a message to "srael that the British
5arliament believes that its illegal settlement enterprise# which has pushed the
possibilit( of a two+state settlement to the brink of collapse# has no validit(
whatsoever and that the international communit( is resolute in its opposition to the
s(stematic colonisation of 5alestinian land.
,he right to statehood has alread( been accepted b( the $overnment# who have said
that the( reserve
Kthe right to recognise a 5alestinian state bilaterall( at the moment of our choosing
and when it can best help bring about peaceL.
"f the( do not do so urgentl(# " contend# and man( informed commentators would
agree with me# that an( hope of a two+state solution# the onl( viable solution# will
disappear altogether. "nstead# "srael will continue its crusade towards the morall(
repugnant and politicall( untenable one+state solution that# in truth# could be
maintained onl( through even greater brutalit( and eCectivel( through apartheid rule
a fate so bleak that an( true friend of "srael would oppose it.
"n conclusion# during the assault on $aFa the leaders of all the main political parties
told Members in this %ouse that the life of a 5alestinian child is worth .ust as much as
the life of an "sraeli child. ,oda(# we can show that we regard both peoples as e)ual
in dignit( and rights not .ust in death but in life. " urge Members to support the
motion and to recognise the state of 5alestine alongside the state of "srael.
4./ pm
Sir Mal(olm Ri/kind (0ensington) (Con):
" listened with great care to the sensitive speech that we have .ust heard from the
hon. Member for -asington ($rahame M. Morris)# and " compliment him on his
balanced remarks. " *nd this a ver( di!cult issue to address# and " do not think the
answer to the )uestion that the %ouse is having to consider is absolutel( on one side
or the other.
"t fell to me when " was 1oreign Secretar( to commit the @nited Jingdom $overnment
for the *rst time to a two+state solution with a 5alestinian state. " have never wavered
in that view and " believe that the earlier that state comes about the better# both for
the 5alestinians and for the middle east as a whole. " also share the frustration of the
hon. $entleman and that of man( other hon. Members about the impasse# which has
causes on both sides of the dispute. " believe that the "sraelis are totall( un.usti*ed in
their settlement polic(. But " must also sa( that the wa( in which the "sraelis# having
withdrawn from $aFa# have been sub.ect to an ongoing attack b( %amas from within
$aFa has clearl( had a massive inIuence on "sraeli public opinion. ,hat has made it
more di!cult to make the progress we would like.
1or me# the most important )uestion is what practical bene*t agreeing this motion
would have. "t might make us feel good and it might make us act in a similar wa( to a
number of other countries around the world# but recognising a state should happen
onl( when the territor( in )uestion has the basic re)uirements for a state. ,hrough no
fault of the 5alestinians# that is not true at the moment.
"t seems to me that the motion is premature. " sa( so for the following reason. 8e do
not have a 5alestinian $overnment2 there are actuall( two $overnments. 5alestine is
split# not because of the "sraelis but because of the conIict between %amas and
1atah. 9ot onl( are the boundaries of the 5alestinian state not known but there is no
5alestinian $overnment with an( control over foreign polic( or defence polic( or who
have an arm( with which to protect the territor( of that state. ,hat is not a criticism2
it is simpl( a factual description of what would normall( be a precondition. ,he @nited
Jingdom did not recognise the state of "srael until /B&0. "t was onl( after what the
"sraelis call their war of independence that the "sraelis demonstrated that the( had
created a state not simpl( through a declaration but through having the fundamental
re)uirements.
8e know that there have been occasions elsewhere in the world when states have
been declared without the means to carr( out the function of a state. 8e have seen it
in South ssetia and AbkhaFia# where the Dussians recognise an independence that
is bogus in realit(. 8e saw it in South Africa# where ,ranskei and Bophuthatswana
were declared independent states when# of course# the( were never an( such thing.
Mr &a(k Stra. (Bla(kurn) (La):
n the issue of the boundaries of a state of 5alestine# surel( their basisalthough not
their detailis ver( clear and is internationall( agreed to be the /B4< boundaries7
Sir Mal(olm Ri/kind:
" will not take issue with the right hon. $entleman on that# but " think that the
boundaries are perhaps the least of the problems that we are addressing. " am sa(ing
something that has applied to British polic( for generations# as it has to the policies
of other countries. 8e recognise a state when the territor( in )uestion has a
$overnment# an arm(# militar( capabilit(M"nterruption.N ,hat might not be
something of which hon. $entlemen would approve
Ste'e Baker (1!(ome) (Con):
8ill m( right hon. and learned 1riend give wa(7
Sir Mal(olm Ri/kind:
" am sorr(# but " do not have time.
%on. Members might not approve of that polic(# but it has been pursued for man(
(ears.
Mr #ndre. Lo'e (Edmonton) (La*Co+op):
8ill the right hon. and learned $entleman give wa(7
Sir Mal(olm Ri/kind:
9o# " am sorr(. " am afraid " cannot in the time available.
8e are told that />& members of the @nited 9ationsman( of which have relativel(
little connection with the middle east# although some have a great connectionhave
recognised 5alestine as a state. ,hat has had no eCect. "t has received '3 hours of
publicit( but has had no marginal# massive or signi*cant impact on the course of
histor(. ,here is a great risk that toda( we will make ourselves feel important and
that our own frustration will lead us to vote for a motion that will not have the desired
eCect and will perhaps make the problems that need to be addressed in reaching a
two+state solution more di!cult to deal with.
" will not detain the %ouse an( further# but will simpl( sa( that s(mbolism sometimes
has a purpose and sometimes has a role# but one does not recognise a state that
does not (et have the fundamental ingredients that a state re)uires if it is to carr(
out its international functions. At the ver( least# " would respectfull( suggest that the
motion is premature.
4.4 pm
Ri(hard Burden (Birmingham) "orth2eld) (La):
,here is so much to sa( about the traged( with which "sraelis and 5alestinians have
lived for so long. ver the (ears# " have spoken about the things " have seen for
m(self# whether that has been settlements growing in violation of international law
and successive resolutions2 the barrier that snakes in and out of the west bank#
cutting 5alestinian communities oC from each other and farmers from the land2 or
5alestinian children being brought in leg irons into "sraeli militar( courts# accused of
throwing stones# and being sub.ect to laws that var( depending on whether one is
5alestinian or "sraeli. " have sat with 5alestinian families in -ast Herusalem who have
had their homes destro(ed and who are no longer allowed to live in the cit( of their
birth. " have seen for m(self the devastation of homes# schools and hospitals in $aFa.
" have met *shermen who are *red on if all the( do is tr( to *sh. Ees# " have been to
Sderot as well and know that "sraelis have spoken about their real fear about rocket
attacks from $aFa. " also know the fear that 5alestinians in $aFa feel dail( because of
the constant buFF of drones overhead# '3 hours a da(# that could bring death at an(
moment.
" have not merel( read about such things2 " have seen them for m(self. ,he( are wh(
a negotiated settlement is so important. 5rinciples are important too# however# in
reaching that negotiated settlement. 1irst# we should act according to international
law and insist that the parties involved do so as well. Secondl(# we should treat
5alestinians and "sraelis as e)uals. 8e have a choice toda(G will we do that# or will we
.ust talk about it7
1or "sraelis# the right of recognition and to self+determination are not the sub.ect of
negotiation but something the( have demanded as a right and that the( were given
as a right more than 4& (ears ago.
&erem! Cor!n (Islington "orth) (La):
" thank m( hon. 1riend for giving wa( and compliment him on all his work. "s he
aware that despite what was said b( the right hon. and learned Member for
Jensington (Sir Malcolm Difkind) and despite the fact that "srael is listed under the
borders put down in /B3O# it has never delineated its own borders7 ur recognition of
5alestine would help to assert 5alestinian rights at this important time.
Ri(hard Burden:
Ees# that is absolutel( right. ,he international position is clearG it is delineated b( the
green line. ,he *nal borders will be negotiated in *nal status negotiations. ,hat is
understood# and that is the same for "srael and for 5alestine. But let us also
remember that it is more than '0 (ears since the 5alestine ?iberation rganisation#
acting on behalf of the 5alestinian people as a whole# recognised the state of "srael.
Eet# despite that# when "srael talks about itself# it still sa(s that it wants constant
rea!rmation of that recognition. %ow man( times have " heard "sraeli Ministers
indeed# some hon. Membersask# K%ow can (ou talk with people who do not
recognise (our right to e;ist7L So for them and "srael# recognition is not about
negotiation2 it is about something fundamental. 8ell# if that is the case for "sraelis#
5alestinians have no fewer rights than that. Decognition for 5alestinians cannot be a
matter of privilege2 it# too# must be a matter of right. ,hat is the problem with the
amendment tabled b( the hon. Member for Aberconw( ($uto Bebb)# because sa(ing
that recognition can onl( happen with the outcome of negotiations ver( much gives
"srael the right of veto not onl( over a 5alestinian state but over the @J 5arliament:s
abilit( to make our own decision to recognise that 5alestinian state.
$r &ulian Le.is ("e. 3orest East) (Con):
8ill the hon. $entleman give wa(7
Ri(hard Burden:
9o. " am afraid that " have given wa( once. ,ime prevents me from doing so an(
more.
"n the %ouse# we make our own decisions# and we act on them bilaterall(. 8e do so
as members of the -uropean @nion and as members of the @nited 9ations. ,he
choice before us is clearG do we want to achieve a two+state solution in practice# with
5alestinians and "sraelis treated as e)uals# or are we content to repeat a theoretical
mantra about two states where the realit( is slipping awa( before our e(es# either
because Ben.amin 9etan(ahu# as he said to ,he ,imes of "srael this summer# has said
that he will never countenance a 5alestinian state that is sovereign in the wa( that he
e;pects sovereignt( for "srael# or because another generation of 5alestinians has
grown up being told that the( must re.ect the path of violence when the onl( realit(
that the( see ahead of them is occupation in the west bank and a blockade in $aFa.
" received an e+mail toda( from a 5alestinian living in -ast Herusalem. %e described
some of his life under occupation in -ast Herusalem and he asked me to sa( this
tonightG K" want to see light at the end of the tunnel# but " reall( want to see light at
the end of the tunnel2 " don:t want to see a train coming at me from the other end.L
,hat is the challenge before us toda(. Are we prepared to give him that light at the
end of the tunnel and to assert that a negotiated solution must be based on e)ualit(G
two states for two peoples# with e)ual rights and each with e)ual stature in the
international communit(7 "f we are going to do that# it is not .ust something to talk
about2 it is something to get on with. 5eople will vote tonight for diCerent reasons#
but if we want to achieve a 5alestinian state in practice# vote for the motion tonight.
4./' pm
Sir Ri(hard 4tta.a! (Cro!don South) (Con):
"f the rest of the debate follows the tone of the three speeches that we have heard so
far# it will be a memorable debate. ,he ne;t few minutes will be personall( rather
painful for me. "t was inevitable right since the time of the holocaust that "srael
clearl( had to be a state in its own right# and Attlee accepted the inevitable and
relin)uished the British mandate. "n 9ovember /B3<# the @nited 9ations supported
the partition resolution. 8hat was on the table then was a settlement that the Arabs
would die for toda(. "n Ma( /B3O# "srael became an independent state and came
under attack from all sides within hours. "n truth# it has been *ghting for its e;istence
ever since.
" was a friend of "srael long before " became a ,or(. M( wife:s famil( were
instrumental in the creation of the Hewish state. "ndeed# some of them were with
8eiFmann at the 5aris conference. ,he holocaust had a deep impact on me as a
(oung man growing up in the aftermath of the second world war# particularl( when "
paid a visit as a schoolbo( to Belsen.
Sir Bo Russell (Col(hester) (L$):
8ill the right hon. $entleman give wa(7
Sir Ri(hard 4tta.a!:
" will not give wa( if the hon. $entleman does not mind.
"n the si;+da( war# " became personall( involved. ,here was a ma.or attempt to
destro( "srael# and " found m(self as a midshipman in the Do(al 9av( based on board
a minesweeper in Aden# sent b( %arold 8ilson to sweep the straits of ,iran of mines
after the SueF canal had been blocked. "n the aftermath of that war# which# clearl(#
the "sraelis won# the Arab states refused peace# recognition or negotiation.
Si; (ears later# in the Eom Jippur war in /B<># the same situation happened again. "t
was an emphatic defeat after a surprise attack. Since then# based on the boundaries
that were framed after the Eom Jippur war# we have had three thwarted peace
agreements# each one better than the last# and we have had two tragediesG the
assassination of Dabin and the stroke suCered b( Ariel Sharon.
,hroughout all this# " have stood b( "srael through thick and thin# through the good
(ears and the bad. " have sat down with Ministers and senior "sraeli politicians and
urged peaceful negotiations and a proportionate response to prevarication# and "
thought that the( were listening. But " realise now# in truth# looking back over the
past '0 (ears# that "srael has been slowl( drifting awa( from world public opinion.
,he anne;ation of the B&0 acres of the west bank .ust a few months ago has
outraged me more than an(thing else in m( political life# mainl( because it makes me
look a fool# and that is something that " resent.
,urning to the substantive motion# to be a friend of "srael is not to be an enem( of
5alestine. " want them to *nd a wa( through# and " am delighted b( (esterda(:s
reconstruction package for $aFa# but with a countr( that is fractured with internal
rivalries# that shows such naked hostilit( to its neighbour# that attacks "srael b( *ring
thousands of rockets indiscriminatel(# that risks the lives of its citiFens through its
strategic placing of weapons and that uses the little building material that it is
allowed to bring in to build tunnels# rather than homes# " am not (et convinced that it
is *t to be a state and should be recognised onl( when there is a peace agreement.
@nder normal circumstances# " would oppose the motion tonight2 but such is m(
anger over "srael:s behaviour in recent months that " will not oppose the motion. "
have to sa( to the $overnment of "srael that if the( are losing people like me# the(
will be losing a lot of people.
4./4 pm
Mrs Louise Ellman (Li'erpool) Ri'erside) (La*Co+op):
" wish to draw attention to m( entr( in the Degister of Members: 1inancial "nterests.
,he tragic clash between Hewish and 5alestinian nationalism can onl( be resolved
with the creation of a 5alestinian state with agreed and secure borders# with
international backing and support# alongside the state of "srael# and the onl( wa( to
bring that about in a lasting and peaceful wa(# to the bene*t of both peoples# is
through direct negotiations# where agreements are made# assurances are given and
where there is full securit( and long+term peace. ,hat needs agreement on borders#
and some agreement has been made# but the diCerences are relativel( small in
length but critical in nature. "t needs agreement on how to share Herusalem# on
refugee issues# agreement on securit( and agreement that setting up a 5alestinian
state would be the end of claims and the end of conIict# not a staging post for an
attack on "srael:s e;istence.
8e should remember that the peace treat( that was signed with -g(pt in /B<B has
stood the test of time# despite drastic changes in regime and $overnments. "n
contrast# "srael:s unilateral withdrawal of settlers and soldiers from $aFa in '00& has
not resulted in peace. "t has led to the terrorist organisation# %amas# violentl(
overthrowing 1atah# launching its barrage of rockets and now directing the terror
tunnels at the civilians of "srael. 8e saw the results in the horrendous events of last
summer.
,wo (ears ago# the 5alestinian Authorit( were given some status in the @nited
9ations in an attempt to look for a diplomatic @9 route to tr( to resolve what
appeared to be intractable problems. 8hat has happened since then# and what use
has been made of that diplomac(7 ,he most recent eCort to *nd a negotiated peace
was that undertaken b( Hohn Jerr(. ,he truth is that it was 5resident Abbas who did
not give an answer to the framework agreement that Hohn Jerr( put forward as a
basis for further negotiations. "srael agreed to it# )uite rightl(# though it did not want
to2 it had to be pushed and pressurised to do so. 5resident Abbas has still not given
an( answer2 instead# he returned to the @nited 9ations.
n '4 September# 5resident Abbas addressed the $eneral Assembl( of the @nited
9ations. ,hat was the sort of approach that the proposed resolution envisagesG no
direct negotiations# and dealing with this b( resolution# and through @nited 9ations
debates. %e spoke about KgenocideL b( "sraelis# and about 5alestinian Kmart(rsL. "s
that the language used about the suicide bombings directed at the (oung people and
civilians of "srael at a time when peace negotiations# following slo# were ver( much
under wa(7 %e spoke about Kforced withdrawalsL. ,hat is not the language of peace.
"t should be remembered that while peace negotiations were under wa( following the
slo negotiations# in one month aloneMarch '00'O0 "sraeli civilians were killed
and 400 in.ured in targeted suicide bombings on the streets of Herusalem# ,el Aviv and
Ashkelon# in a concerted attempt to undermine and destro( that peace process. 9o
wonder there is concern among the people of "srael2 the( know that during those
peace negotiationsit was right to stick to them and to keep going with themterror
groups sent b(# among others# Easser Arafat# were targeting# killing and maiming
"sraeli civilians. ,he "sraeli withdrawal from $aFaa correct# unilateral withdrawal
was followed b( rockets# the terror tunnels# and more and more death.
,his is not an eas( issue2 if it was eas( to resolve# it would have been resolved b(
now. Both Hews and 5alestinians deserve to have their states# and to live in peace and
securit(# side b( side. =irect negotiations are the wa(
Mr $eput! Speaker (Mr Lindsa! -o!le):
rder.
4.'' pm
Sir #lan $un(an (Rutland and Melton) (Con):
,he %ouse is enormousl( grateful to the hon. Member for -asington ($rahame M.
Morris) for securing this debate. " hope that amendment (b)# in the name of the right
hon. Member for Blackburn (Mr Straw)# to which " put m( name# will ma;imise
support tonight for the recognition of 5alestine as a state. " *nd it astonishing that#
having been a Member of this %ouse for '' (ears# " cannot think of a previous
occasion on which we have debated this issue on either a substantive motion# or a
motion such as toda(:s# (et this is the most ve;ed and emotive issue in the entire
region# if not the world.
?et us be clear from the start# to alla( the fears of the hon. Member for ?iverpool#
Diverside (Mrs -llman)# who speaks passionatel( on this sub.ectG " think that all of us
in this %ouse# to a man and a woman# recognise the state of "srael and its right to
e;ist. ur belief in that should not in an( wa( be impugned. ?et us also be clear that
that same right has not been granted to 5alestine2 in m( view# it is high time that it
was. "t is the other half of the commitment that our predecessors in this %ouse made
as part of the British mandate in the region.
" cannot think of an( other populous area of the world that is sub.ect to so man(
resolutions but is not allowed to call itself a state. After the civil war# albeit two (ears
after /B3O# we recognised the state of "srael. "t was still not the tidiest of
Administrations. "ts borders were not clear2 the( still are not. "t had no agreed capital
it wanted Herusalem2 at the moment# it has ,el Avivand no eCective $overnment#
so " do not )uite agree with m( right hon. and learned 1riend the Member for
Jensington (Sir Malcolm Difkind) in his assessment of what it takes to .ustif( granting
statehood to# and recognise# a countr(.
Grahame M. Morris:
,he right hon. and learned Member for Jensington (Sir Malcolm Difkind) said that
5alestine did not have international recognition2 the 8orld Bank and the "nternational
Monetar( 1und have both said that 5alestinian statehood should be recognised.
Sir #lan $un(an:
" agree.
Mrs Gillan
rose
Sir #lan $un(an:
$iven the ver( short time left to me# " will race ahead# if m( right hon. 1riend will
allow me.
8e have accepted as a principle in $overnment that eventuall( there should be
recognition of a 5alestinian state# so this is ultimatel( a matter of timing and
circumstance. ,he %ouse will have been deepl( moved b( the speech of m( right
hon. 1riend the Member for 6ro(don South (Sir Dichard ttawa(). So man( of us go
on a personal .ourne( on this issue# as " have done over the past '0 (ears.
Decognition of statehood is not a reward for an(thing2 it is a right. ,he notion that it
would put an end to negotiations# or somehow pre+empt or destro( them# is patentl(
absurd2 5alestine would still be occupied# and negotiations would need to continue#
both to end that occupation and to agree land swaps and borders. Defusing
5alestinian recognition is tantamount to giving "srael the right of veto.
8hen " was a Minister of State at the =epartment for "nternational =evelopment# we
supported the 5alestinian Authorit(2 over so man( (ears# it was there# a responsible
organisation. "t is not their fault that the( are occupied# and so often have their
revenues withheld b( the "sraelis2 if the( were not withheld# 5alestine would not need
a penn( of British aid. Decognising 5alestine is not about recognising a $overnment.
"t is states that are recognised# not $overnments. 8e are talking about recognition of
the right to e;ist as a state. ,his is not about endorsing a state that has to be in
perfect working order. "t is the principle of recognition that the %ouse should agree to
toda(.
Mrs Gillan:
8ill m( right hon. 1riend give wa(7
Sir #lan $un(an:
" will run out of time# so no2 forgive me.
Some in this %ouse clearl( think that to support "srael# the( must oppose or dela(
such recognition# but that is not the case. B( opposing 5alestinian recognition# the(
are undermining the interests of both "srael and 5alestine. "t is onl( through
recognition that we can give 5alestinians the dignit( and hope that the( need to
engage in further negotiations and to live in a countr( that the( can properl( call
their own. ?et us remember a fundamental principle# on which " will make a more
detailed speech tomorrow morningG settlements are illegal# and the endorsement of
the "sraelis: right to re.ect recognition is tantamount to the endorsement of illegal
settlement activit(.
A lot of people feel intimidated when it comes to standing up for this issue. "t is time
we did stand up for it# because almost the ma.orit( of 5alestinians are not (et in their
'0s. ,he( will grow up stateless. "f we do not give them hope# dignit( and belief in
themselves# it will be a recipe for permanent conIict# none of which is in "srael:s
interests. ,he hon. Member for ?iverpool# Diverside# who speaks on ever( occasion on
this sub.ect# onl( ever catalogues the violence on one side# and this is a tit+for+tat
argument. ,oda(# the %ouse should do its historic dut(.
4.'O pm
Mr &a(k Stra. (Bla(kurn) (La):
" beg to move amendment (b)# at the end of the Puestion to add#
Q# as a contribution to securing a negotiated two state solution.:
" congratulate m( hon. 1riend the Member for -asington ($rahame M. Morris) on
bringing this debate to the %ouse. " also pa( tribute to the e;traordinar( and ver(
moving speech b( the right hon. Member for 6ro(don South (Sir Dichard ttawa()#
which# as " think we all appreciated# was a ver( di!cult speech to make.
As the %ouse will note# the amendment has wide# cross+part( support. "ts purpose is
ver( simple. "t is based on the belief that the recognition of the state of 5alestine
alongside the state of "srael will add to the pressure for a negotiated two+state
solution# and ma( help to bring that prospect a little closer to fruition.
,he KDoad Map to a 5ermanent ,wo+State Solution to the "sraeli+5alestinian 6onIictL
was promulgated at the end of April '00> under the auspices of the Puartetthe @9#
-@# @S and Dussia. ,hough# palpabl(# much of the progress presaged b( the road
map has been confounded b( events# cruciall(# b( the road map# the $overnment of
"srael were signed up to there being a separate and independent state of 5alestine.
ne part of the road map anticipated that Puartet members# which include the @J#
could
Kpromote international recognition of a 5alestinian state# including possible @9
membershipL
as a transitional measure# well before an( *nal status agreement. ,he $overnment of
"srael disagree. ,he( claim that recognition of 5alestine as a state should be at the
conclusion of an( successful peace negotiations. But such an approach would give
the $overnment of "srael a veto# even over whether such a state should e;ist.
Sir #lan Beith (Ber.i(k+upon+5.eed) (L$):
" understand what the right hon. $entleman is tr(ing to achieve b( his amendment#
but how does he think the passing of the motion would encourage either %amas or
the "sraelis to change their approach to negotiation# which has been so unfruitful so
far7
Mr Stra.:
"t is the 5alestinian Authorit( that is part of the negotiations# not %amas. " believe
that the fact of the "sraeli:s intemperate reaction to the ver( prospect of the %ouse
passing this resolution is proof that it will make a diCerence. ,he onl( thing that the
"sraeli $overnment understand# under the present demeanour of Ben.amin
9etan(ahu# is pressure. 8hat the %ouse will be doing this evening will be to add to
the pressure on the $overnment of "srael. ,hat is wh( the( are so worried about this
resolution passing. 8ere it .ust a gesture# as the right hon. and learned Member for
Jensington (Sir Malcolm Difkind) implied# the( would not be bothered at all. ,he( are
ver( worried indeed because the( know that it will have an eCect.
$r Matthe. 46ord (-endon) (Con):
" am grateful to the right hon. $entleman for his contribution# but does he not agree
that this is a Back+Bench motion7 ,his has no eCect on $overnment polic(# and it is
.ust futile.
Mr Stra.:
8e represent the electorate of the @nited Jingdom. " can tell the hon. $entleman#
having spent /> (ears sitting on the ,reasur( Bench# that resolutions passed in the
%ouse# whether the( emanate from Back Benches or 1ront Benches# make a
diCerence# and this resolution will# if it is passed# make a diCerence.
#ndre. Bridgen ("orth 1est Lei(estershire) (Con):
8ill the right hon. $entleman give wa(7
Mr Stra.:
" have had m( ration# if the hon. $entleman will e;cuse me.
A moment:s thought will allow us to appreciate .ust how ill+founded the $overnment
of "srael:s assertion is. "srael has been occup(ing 5alestinian land for nearl( &0 (ears.
"t fails to meet its clear international legal obligations as an occup(ing power. "n the
last '0 (ears# as we have heard# it has compounded that failure b( a deliberate
decision to anne; 5alestinian land and to build "sraeli settlements on that land. ,here
are now 400#000 such "sraeli settlers in -ast Herusalem and the west bank. ,he
"sraelis are seeking to strangle -ast Herusalem b( e;propriating land all around it# and
two months ago# the( announced the illegal anne;ation of a further nearl( /#000
acres of land near Bethlehem. ,he "sraeli $overnment will go on doing this as long as
the( pa( no price for their obdurac(. ,heir illegal occupation of land is condemned b(
this $overnment in strong terms# but no action follows. ,he "sraelis sell produce from
these illegal settlements in 5alestine as if the( were made or grown in "srael# but no
action follows.
"srael itself was established and recognised b( unilateral act. ,he 5alestinians had no
sa( whatever over the recognition of the state of "srael# still less a veto. " support the
state of "srael. " would have supported it at the end of the /B30s. But it cannot lie in
the mouth of the "sraeli $overnment# of all $overnments# to sa( that the( should
have a veto over a state of 5alestine# when for absolutel( certain# the 5alestinians
had no sa( whatever over the establishment of the state of "srael.
,oda(:s debate will# " hope# send a strong signal that the British 5arliament stands full
s)uare behind the two+state solution set out in the road map. ,he current impasse
can be broken# in m( view# onl( b( actions# not simpl( b( words# and the recognition
of 5alestine b( the international communit( would further# not hinder# these aims.
,hree (ears ago on B 9ovember '0//# the right hon. Member for Dichmond (Eorks)
(Mr %ague)# then 1oreign Secretar(# told the %ouseG
K,he @nited Jingdom .udges that the 5alestinian Authorit( largel( ful*ls criteria for
@9 membership# including statehoodL.
%e added that we# the @nited Jingdom#
Kreserve the right to recognise a 5alestinian state bilaterall( at a moment of our
choosing and when it can best help to bring about peace.LM!cial Deport# B
9ovember '0//2 Vol. &>&# c. 'B0.N
,hat moment is now. " urge hon. Members on both sides to support the amendment.
4.>& pm
Mr &ames Clappison (-ertsmere) (Con):
"t is alwa(s a pleasure to follow the right hon. Member for Blackburn (Mr Straw)# but "
am afraid to sa( that# having listened carefull( to his speech and the speech of the
hon. Member for -asington ($rahame M. Morris)# " am not as convinced as " would
like to be that this motion would contribute towards a peaceful solution of the
conIict# or that the recognition of 5alestine b( the %ouse in a Back+Bench motion
would somehow unlock a process whereb( the two sides negotiated freel( together
to arrive at a peaceful solution.
,he hon. $entleman said that he would destro( the argument of the hon. Member for
9orth Antrim ("an 5aisle() that taking this step would pre+empt and pre+determine the
result of the negotiations. " am afraid to sa( that having listened carefull( to the hon.
$entleman:s speechhe did not take all interventions on this pointthat argument
was still well in e;istence at the end of his contribution and had not been destro(ed
at all# and it remains there for us to face. " sa( that as a committed supporter of a
two+state solution# which will involve di!cult# if not painful# compromises on both
sides. "t is also something that will take a long time
#ndre. Bridgen:
=oes m( hon. 1riend agree that# given that the political s(stem of the world:s
superpower and our great all( the @nited States is ver( susceptible to well+funded
powerful lobb(ing groups and the power of the Hewish lobb( in America# it falls to this
countr( and to this %ouse to be the good but critical friend that "srael needs# and this
motion tonight .ust might lift that log.am on this ver( troubled area7
Mr Clappison:
,here are powerful lobbies on all sides# and " am sure that m( hon. 1riend would
agree with me in pa(ing tribute to the work that Secretar( of State Jerr( did in tr(ing
to bring both sides to the negotiating table2 he reall( does deserve our staunch
support. But " am sure that m( hon. 1riend would also agree that a peaceful solution
will be achieved onl( b( negotiations b( the parties themselves over all the
outstanding issues# without the issues being determined in advance. ,he )uestion for
the outside world is whether what it does makes a .ust two+state solution more or
less likel(. " believe that international recognition of a 5alestinian state in the terms of
the motion would make a two+state solution less likel( rather than more likel(. " heard
what the right hon. Member for Blackburn said about this. " am afraid that " do not
see "srael# having faced the challenges that it has faced over (ears# caving in to this
Back+Bench motion tonight. "t might be a gesture on the part of the %ouse# but it
would take the process no further. ,he right hon. $entleman and the hon. Member for
-asington can chose to look at this in terms of a veto# but it will re)uire both sides#
including the state of "srael# a democrac(# which is susceptible to public opinion# to
agree to a solution. ,hat is the onl( wa( in which a .ust solution can be achieved.
Grahame M. Morris
rose
Mr Clappison:
" will give wa( to the hon. $entleman if he can answer the point# which " think was
going to be made to him# as to whether he will accept that although "srael has not
done ever(thing alwa(s that it possibl( could to bring about a solution# there have
been repeated occasions in histor(# in the /B>0s and the /B30s# and more recentl(#
when it has been "srael that has agreed to a solution of all the outstanding issues#
and it has not found the hand coming from the other side. ,hat is historical fact.
Grahame M. Morris:
8hat is the hon. $entleman:s solution# given that the former 1oreign Secretar( has
said that the two+state solution is no longer tenable7 $iven the facts on the ground#
as the right hon. Member for Blackburn (Mr Straw) and numerous other Members
have indicated# with the settlement e;pansion plan400#000 settlersif we are not
going to push ahead with the two+state solution because of the practicalities# what is
the hon. $entleman:s alternative7 "s it a one+state solution7
Mr Clappison:
,he state of "srael has been prepared to agree to a two+state solution in the past# and
" hope that it will do so in future# but that will re)uire both sides to negotiate. " do not
accept the pessimism inherent in the hon. $entleman:s approach# because it is now
clear that the motion is ver( pessimistic. " would like to see a hopeful motion that
looked forward to a peaceful solution that gave 5alestine its state# based on a fair
division of territor(# and all the accoutrements of statehood while at the same time
allowing the state of "srael to en.o( sovereignt( and securit(.
Sir Ed.ard Garnier (-arorough) (Con):
8ill m( hon. 1riend give wa(7
Mr Clappison:
" am afraid that " cannot# because " would run out of time.
" believe that the 5alestinian Authorit( have acted in good faith and are a worth(
partner in negotiations. ,he( have e;pressed their commitment to a two+state
solution. Although he does not actuall( have a state# " believe that 5resident Abbas
has displa(ed statesmanlike )ualities# not least during the recent $aFan conIict# but "
believe that he and his Authorit( are making a mistake in going down the unilateral
road.
,here is a problem# which the hon. Member for -asington did not recognise# in the
form of %amas. %amas is a diCerent matter. Although the 5alestinian Authorit( has
acted in good faith# and although 5resident Abbas has been statesmanlike in man(
wa(s# " am afraid that the 5alestinian Authorit( took a backward step when the(
entered into a unit( deal with %amas in April this (ear. "t would have been *ne if
%amas had shown an( inkling that it was moving towards a peaceful solution# but it
has not. "t has had man( opportunities to commit to the re)uirements of the
international communit( and sa( that it will go down the road of peace# but from its
inception# and according to the tenets of its founding charter# it has set its face
against an( sort of peaceful co+e;istence with the state of "srael and turned its hand
to a campaign of unremitting terror and violence. 9o $overnment would stand b( and
allow such a campaign to be directed against its population without taking
proportionate measures in self+defence.
8e must not overlook the factit is often overlookedthat %amas has caused $aFa#
a rather sad place to sa( the least# to be locked into a deepl( depressing c(cle of
violence# intending to inIict casualties on "srael and reckless as to the conse)uences
for the civilian population in $aFa. "t is against that background that we must
approach these issues.
" ver( much hope that in future %amas will show some willingness to become part of
a peaceful solution and to engage in normal democratic politics and peaceful and
legal means# but it has not done that so far. ,he pressure should be on %amas to
desist its campaign of violence and enter into negotiations genuinel(# together with
the 5alestinian Authorit(# with the state of "srael.
,his is a terrible conIict. 8e must all look forward to the da( when both sides get
down to the business of making the compromises that will be needed to bring it to an
end. "srael certainl( has to make compromises as well# but in the meantime we
should all take steps that will make those compromises more# rather than less# likel(.
M( fear is that the motiona unilateral recognition of the 5alestinian stateb(
encouraging one part( to walk awa( from negotiations# would put oC that da(. 8e
should be doing ever(thing we can to induce both sides to negotiate# because onl(
that wa(# as our $overnment have recognised# will we see a peaceful solution to this
problem.
4.3> pm
Sir Gerald 0au/man (Man(hester) Gorton) (La):
,here are 4 million "sraeli Hews. ,here are /#400#000 5alestinians in "srael# '#<00#000
on the west bank and /#O00#000 in $aFa. ,he 5alestinians now outnumber the "sraeli
Hews# and that is without taking into account the & million 5alestinians in refugee
camps and in the diaspora. ,he big diCerence# of course# is that the "sraelis have a
secure state and the 5alestinians live under oppression da( after da(.
,he right hon. and learned Member for Jensington (Sir Malcolm Difkind) wove a
fantas( that the Hews were reunited when the state of "srael was created and that the
5alestinians were split# and we have .ust heard again about the wickedness of %amas
" do not condone what %amas does# and " realise that it is a useful tool for those
who wish to portra( the 5alestinians as divided and unreliable. %is fantas( was that
all was harmonious when "srael was created# but the "sraelis were divided into three
warring factions at that timeG the %aganah# representing the o!cial Hewish agenc(2
the terrorist organisation "rgun Rvai ?eumi2 and the terrorist Stern gang. "srael nearl(
broke out into civil war immediatel( after it was founded because "rgun insisted on
having its own arm( in an independent state. So the idea that "srael was somehow
born in a moment of paradise and that all that surrounds the 5alestinians is stress
and damage is a fantas(.
8here are we now7 ,he situation was not ideal for "srael then# and it is not ideal for
the 5alestinians now# but divided "srael survived and survives even though it is still
divided. ?ook at the amaFing divisions in the "sraeli $overnment# with the
e;traordinar( e;tremism of the Eisrael Beiteinu part(# which makes the @J
"ndependence part( look like cos( internationalists# (et it is part of the $overnment.
,he "sraelis are harming the 5alestinians da( after da(. ?ast week the @S State
=epartment denounced a settlement e;pansion of '#400 that the "sraelis are
planning. ?ast week the new president of the 9ew "srael 1und# ,alia SassonHewish
and pro+"sraeldenounced the e;pansion of settlements again in the west bank. ,he
"sraelis# with the checkpoints# the illegal wall and the settlements# are making a
coherent 5alestinian state impossible.
,hat is wh( it is essential to pass this motion# because it would be a game changer.
,he recognition of 5alestine b( the British %ouse of 6ommons would aCect the
international situation. ,his %ouse can create an historic new situation. " call on right
hon. and hon. Members on both sides of the %ouse to give the 5alestinians their
rights and show the "sraelis that the( cannot suppress another people all the time. "t
is not Hewish for the "sraelis to do that. ,he( are harming the image of Hudaism# and
terrible outbreaks of anti+Semitism are taking place. " want to see an end to anti+
Semitism# and " want to see a 5alestinian state.
4.3O pm
Sir "i(holas Soames (Mid Susse7) (Con):
" congratulate the hon. Member for -asington ($rahame M. Morris) on securing the
debate. " think that " am right in sa(ing that the last time a debate of this t(pe took
place was in /BO&# which was a long time ago# and that is not to the %ouse:s credit. "
congratulate m( right hon. 1riend the Member for 6ro(don South (Sir Dichard
ttawa() on a formidabl( powerful speech. " congratulate m( right hon. 1riend the
Member for Dutland and Melton (Sir Alan =uncan)# who also made a formidable
speech.
" am convinced that recognising 5alestine is both morall( right and in our national
interests. "t is morall( right because the 5alestinians are entitled to a state# .ust as
"sraelis are rightl( entitled to their homeland. ,his %ouse should need no reminding
of the terms of the Balfour declaration# which rightl( endorsed
Kthe establishment in 5alestine of a national home for the Hewish peopleL
but went on to state that
Knothing shall be done which ma( pre.udice the civil and religious rights of e;isting
non+Hewish communities in 5alestineL.
9inet(+seven (ears later# the terms of the Balfour declaration are clearl( not upheld
with respect to the 5alestinians# and in Britain that should weigh ver( heavil( upon us
indeed. "t is in our national interest to recognise 5alestine as part of a drive to
achieve lasting peace. 8e face so man( dire emergencies in the middle east toda(2
we cannot aCord to add to them the continuing failure of the middle east peace
process and the inevitable death of the two+state solution. ,his step b( Britain and
other nations is needed to galvanise talks that are paral(sed and indicate that the
status )uo is not onl( untenable# but wholl( unacceptable.
"t is said that bilateral recognition would harm the prospects for negotiations between
the "sraelis and the 5alestinians# but the sad truth is that that eCort has failed.
9egotiations have completel( broken down and there is not the remotest sign of a
possible breakthrough. ,he catacl(sm in S(ria# the emergence of "slamic State and
the > million S(rian refugees bringing neighbouring countries to their knees have
made the situation in the middle eastalread( a cauldroneven more dangerous.
Moreover# as others have said# />& of /B> @9 member states have alread(
recognised 5alestine in recent (ears. @nless it is an(one:s serious contention that
those member states are responsible for the failure of the negotiations# the act of
recognition itself clearl( does not wreck the prospects for peace. 8hat does impede
peace is a dismal lack of political will to make the necessar( concessions and a
tendenc( in "srael to believe that it will alwa(s be sheltered b( the @nited States from
having to take those di!cult steps. Decognition b( the @nited Jingdom would be a
strong signal that the patience of the world is not without limit.
Secondl(# it is said that recognition would be an empt( gesture that would not
change the facts on the ground. ,hat is true# but it is not a reason not to recognise
5alestine# which would be purel( a political decision b( the @nited Jingdom as a
sovereign 5arliament. "t would be a powerful gesture to 5alestinians that the( will
obtain their state in the future after 3< (ears of cruel and un.ust occupation and it
would strengthen the hand of 5resident Abbas against %amas.
"ndeed# recognising 5alestinians would be onl( a small and logical evolution of the
current position of the @nited Jingdom. "t has been the $overnment:s view since
'0// that the 5alestinian Authorit( have developed successfull( the capacit( to run a
democratic and peaceful state founded on the rule of law and living in peace and
securit( with "srael. ,o paraphrase a familiar e;pression# if it looks like a state and
ful*ls the criteria for a state# surel( it should be recognised as a state. 8hat entitles
the @nited Jingdom to withhold a recognition that is the birthrightthe long overdue
birthrightof each and ever( 5alestinian child7 "t would be shameful not to take the
step of recognition now# when it would make a real diCerence.
,he @nited Jingdom was a midwife at the birth of "srael and is a permanent member
of the @9 Securit( 6ouncil. ,hat means an aspiration to take a lead in world aCairs.
8e should take that lead now on this vital issue through a decisive vote of the British
%ouse of 6ommons.
4.&> pm
Mike 1ood (Batle! and Spen) (La):
"# too# congratulate m( hon. 1riend the Member for -asington ($rahame M. Morris) on
securing this debate2 he has done all in the %ouse a great service.
" cannot think wh( an( supporter of "srael should oppose the recognition of a
5alestinian state. 8e know the histor( of "srael from its beginnings in /B3O# as
outlined b( m( right hon. 1riend the Member for Manchester# $orton (Sir $erald
Jaufman). 8e know about the si;+da( war in /B4< and about "srael:s present
situation. "n '0/># Mr Jerr( warned that there were onl( two (ears to resolve this
Iashpoint and that time was running out. %e was surel( talking to the "sraelis as
much as to the 5alestinians. ,he two+state solution is disappearing rapidl( before our
ver( e(es.
8e have to grapple with the issue of what will happen if there are not two states.
8hat does the one+state solution look like7 8e are told that the ma.orit( of the
present "sraeli Administration no longer accept a two+state solution. Mr 9etan(ahu
has suddenl( become a rather centrist pragmatist# holding together a coalition# man(
of whom are to the right of him# in wanting a one+state solution. =o the( accept the
genocide and ethnic cleansing that go along with that7
,he situation is far worse than that in apartheid South Africa# which has been
mentioned. "t has been regularl( referred to as a parallel to what is going on in
5alestine# but the situation in 5alestine is much worse than apartheid. ,he white .unta
in South Africa accepted that somewhere in the countr(preferabl( not near them
there would be land for black people. "t was the worst possible land and a long wa(
from the ruling white group# but none the less the .unta accepted that there would be
a place for the blacks. A one+state solution in "srael does not accept such a thing.
,here is no place in "srael and 5alestine for the 5alestinians. 8e have to face s)uarel(
what that means and so do the "sraelis. ,hat is even more reason wh( we should not
give the "sraelis a veto over 5alestinian statehood.
8e will be voting tonight for the recognition of a 5alestinian state. ,hat is not .ust
about recognising the inalienable right of 5alestinians to freedom and self+
determination but about "srael:s need to be saved from itself. 8hat "srael is looking at
in a one+state solution is a continuation# (ear after (ear# of war and violence such as
we have seen building in the past '0 (ears. ,he "sraelis have .ust *nished a third
incursion into $aFa in /0 (ears. Are we suggesting that ever( two (ears another
/#&00 people should be killed and another /00#000 people rendered homeless as a
continuation of the process of driving ever(bod( who is not Hewish out of what is
considered to be greater "srael7
Mrs Ellman:
8ill m( hon. 1riend give wa(7
Mike 1ood:
" would prefer not to# if m( hon. 1riend does not mind.
,he occupation and e;ile have to end. ,here is never an( peace without .ustice.
Statehood for 5alestine would strengthen
Madam $eput! Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing):
rder. " call =avid 8ard.
4.&O pm
Mr $a'id 1ard (Brad/ord East) (L$):
" congratulate the hon. Member for -asington ($rahame M. Morris) on securing the
debate# which is so important.
As a (oung man# " backpacked around "srael and had a wonderful time. " sta(ed at
various hostelsin -in+$edi# Herusalem# ,el Aviv and -ilat. " swam in the dead sea and
went to Masada. " loved the place and its people and " wanted to return. " went back
and spent time working with Mashav in the Arabic desert and living with an "sraeli
famil(. 8e had man( discussions as we sat on our upturned vegetable bo;es# drinking
tea and taking a break from picking peppers and tomatoes. ,he farmer# the head of
the famil(# told me over and again about his personal e;perienceshis militar(
service and how proud he had been to do what he felt was his dut( in representing
his countr( in the militar(. 1rom where we were sitting# we could almost touch the
Hordanian mountains a few miles awa(. %e also told me about the real e;istential
threat involved in being surrounded b( what he regarded as hostile Arab states. "
have never forgotten that or sought to trivialise it in an( wa(# or to minimise the
sense of insecurit( that "sraelis must feel.
,hat sense of insecurit(felt b( man( Hews# " suppose# throughout the centurieshas
occurred as the( suCered persecution throughout eastern and western -urope# and
be(ond. ,hat persecution# as we all know# included an attempt at annihilation. Puite
apart from the Rionist agenda# the need for a place to be safe somewhere was so
important because of the failure to *nd safet( from persecution in man( other places.
All that is perfectl( understandable# but what " do not understand is wh( the
5alestinians should have had to pa( such a terrible price for the creation of the state
of "srael# where it was believed that securit( could be created# or wh( the "sraelis
believed that the brutal e;pulsion and continued suppression of the 5alestinians
would ever lead to the sense of securit( that the( seek.
" remember a meeting not too long ago in one of the big 6ommittee rooms in the
%ouse of 6ommons at which there were lots of members of the 5alestinian
communit(. " said that the "sraelis were winning2 " was in despair at the lack of
progress. " said that the( will not negotiate and asked wh( should the( when the
immense support of the @S and the inaction of the international communit( at large
meant that the( were gaining# da( in and da( out# and could ignore international law#
continue to act with impunit(# and# of course# increase their holding of 5alestinian
land. But a 5alestinian rebuked me# sa(ing that the( were not winning because K8e
have not forgotten and we never will forget.L %ow can the "sraelis believe that the(
can ever have securit(# because the 5alestinians will never forget7
Bo Ste.art (Be(kenham) (Con):
M( wife# who is a delegate of the "nternational 6ommittee of the Ded 6ross# met
man( 5alestinians in south ?ebanon who still have ke(s round their neck on a string
from the house that the( were e.ected from in the late /B30s. ,he( will not forget.
Mr 1ard:
"ndeedhow could the(7
" support the motion for man( reasons# but " will state three. 1irst# for the 5alestinians
to turn awa( from the men of violence# the( need hope# and this motion represents a
degree of hope for them. Much is made of the failure of %amas to recognise "srael#
and we know about that# but let us imagine the sense of despair that ordinar(
5alestinians must feel at the failure of the international communit( to recognise their
right to e;ist. M( tweet on the *ring of rockets out of $aFa and the previous
comments b( Baroness ,onge were never# of course# condoning terrorist acts b(
5alestinians2 the( were simpl( our recognition of the despair and sense of
hopelessness that leads to terrorism.
Secondl(# "srael is in breach of the contract set out in the Balfour declaration stating
that
Knothing shall be done which ma( pre.udice the civil and religious rights of e;isting
non+Hewish communities in 5alestineL.
"n the light of the 9akba and ever(thing since# that seems like a sick .oke. ,he failure
of the international communit( to recognise the state of 5alestine has helped "srael to
ignore this commitment.
,hirdl(# on a personal note# this Sunda( at -den 6amp in north Eorkshire there will be
a gathering of the 5alestine veterans. ,he( will parade at / o:clock# but man( of them
will not be able to walk ver( far# if at allthe( are all over the age of O0. ,he( went
to that land in /B3& as a peacekeeping force# but lost over <00 members of the
armed forces and '00 police. " believe that we owe it to them for tonight:s motion to
succeed. Man( were not conscripts2 man( were veterans of Arnhem# 9ormand( and
Bergen+Belsen. Man( felt# and still feel# betra(ed b( "srael and )uestion the sacri*ce
that so man( of their colleagues made. "f this vote on recognising the right of
5alestinians is won# the( will ver( much welcome it# but it has been so long in
coming.
<.3 pm
#nas Sar.ar (Glasgo. Central) (La):
" am delighted to have the opportunit( to speak in this historic debate on the
recognition of statehood for 5alestineG one small part in righting a profound and
lasting wrong. " congratulate m( hon. 1riend the Member for -asington ($rahame M.
Morris) on securing the debate and# in so doing# again demonstrating his
commitment to .ustice and to the region. ,his issue has widespread public support in
the @J and across the world. ,hat has been shown b( the hundreds of thousands of
people who took to the streets over the summer to protest against the continued
bloodshed in the region# and b( the Iooding of Members: in+bo;es b( constituents
asking us to support this important motion.
As we have heard# this debate follows on from the failure of the @J $overnment to
support 5alestinian statehood at the @9. "n '0// and in '0/'# ?abour Members urged
the $overnment to support the 5alestinians: bid for recognition at the @9. ?et us be
clearG this was a missed opportunit( and a shameful moment for the @nited Jingdom
and our claim to be leaders on the international stage for .ustice and democrac(. ,he
selective wa( in which the British $overnment appl( their force and resource is#
sadl(# self+evident. " am therefore pleased that this motion has strong cross+part(
support and that it does not split on part( lines# or even between those who class
themselves as pro+5alestinian or pro+"sraeli. Dather# it is a motion that is pro+.ustice
and pro+peace.
5alestinian statehood is in the interests of the people of 5alestine and the people of
"srael# because with statehood come rights and responsibilities. ,he rights are the
abilit( to govern freel(# both politicall( and in the .udiciar(2 the powers and the
infrastructure that# we hope# will deliver for the people2 and economic freedom# with
the abilit( of the countr( to grow its own econom( and create prosperit(. 5alestine
has the resources and the skills to be a self+sustaining# functioning countr(. "n '0/0#
the @9 found that the overall cost of the occupation to the 5alestinian econom( was
estimated at nearl( S< billion# or a staggering O&T of $=5. As " said# there are not
onl( rights but responsibilities. Statehood obliges the 5alestinian $overnment to
respect# protect and ful*l human rights for their people. "t re)uires 5alestinian forces
to abide b( international rules on armed conIict# and it re)uires the 5alestinian
people to accept and learn to co+e;ist with all their neighbours. ,he recognition of a
state is not an endorsement of an( political part( or an( group within $aFa or the
west bankfar from it.
,here are moments when the e(es of the world are on this place# and " believe that
this is one of those moments. 8hat message will we send to the international
communit(7 ,here will be those living in 5alestine who keep hearing that word#
KpeaceL# while at the same time seeing a continued occupation# an ongoing
blockade# further e;pansion of illegal settlements# and the never+ending c(cle of
violence and bloodshed# causing fear on both sides of the conIict.
Mr $a'id 1inni(k (1alsall "orth) (La):
=id m( hon. 1riend see the *lm on Saturda( on BB6 '# K,he $atekeepersL# which
showed the people who were at the most senior level of the "sraeli securit( service#
now retired# urging for the sake of "srael itself a willingness on the part of the "sraeli
$overnment to negotiate with all# including %amas7 "t is a great pit( that the "sraeli
$overnment refuse to accept such common sense.
#nas Sar.ar:
" thank m( hon. 1riend for that intervention. ,he ke( point is that there is widespread
support within "srael for this motion on the statehood of 5alestine. 5eople who are
friends of "srael# who are "sraelis# and who class themselves as part of the struggle to
*nd a peaceful resolution for the people of "srael recognise that the motion is not
onl( in the interests of 5alestine but fundamentall( in the interests of "srael too.
,o go back to the issue of previous false dawns in 5alestine# the people there have
been hearing warm words for decades# but " am sorr( to sa( that words are no longer
enough. ur best chance of seeing a re.ection of violence and militant forces is b(
rekindling hope so that people can stop hearing the word peace and start living its
true meaning.
,his motion is an opportunit( to start addressing decades of failure# which are a
shame on the entire international communit(. "t has been said that supporting the
motion somehow undermines peace and the two+state solution# but it actuall( does
the opposite. ,his motion does not disregard the two+state solution2 it endorses it.
,his motion does not undermine the peace processthere is no peace and there is
no processbut it shows that we are serious about *nding a lasting solution. ,his
motion does not damage Britain:s role or undermine its standing in the international
communit(2 it actuall( goes a long wa( to restoring its standing in the international
communit(. ,his motion is not a failure of leadership2 it is a demonstration of it. ,hat
is wh( " will passionatel( and proudl( walk through the A(e ?obb( tonight.
<./0 pm
$r Matthe. 46ord (-endon) (Con):
" had not anticipated being called to speak# so " am grateful to (ou# Madam =eput(
Speaker.
,he proposal for this %ouse to recognise 5alestinian statehood is not onl( premature#
but misguided. An a!rmative vote tonight would be nothing more than a propaganda
victor( for those who wish to b(pass the mediation of the peace process in favour of
international institutions such as the @nited 9ations where the 5alestinian Authorit(
en.o( an automatic ma.orit(.
,hree (ears ago 5resident Abbas made it e;plicit that the attempt unilaterall( to
assert statehood through the @9 was to ensure that it
Kwould pave the wa( for the internationalisation of the conIict as a legal matter# not
onl( a political one. "t would also pave the wa( for usL
the 5alestinian Authorit(
Kto pursue claims against "srael at the @nited 9ations# human rights treat( bodies
and the international 6ourt of Hustice.L
,he 5alestinian Authorit( are seeking to create opportunities for new diplomatic and
legal fronts on the conIict with "srael that enable a distraction# an alternative and an
escape route from the bilateral principle entailed in the slo accords and subse)uent
diplomatic frameworks.
&erem! Cor!n
rose
Grahame M. Morris
rose
$r 46ord:
" will not give wa( at the moment.
,he proposers of this motion are aiding those eCorts and turning their backs on the
peace process. ,hat is not a proposal that " can accept.
,he middle east peace process is underpinned b( several ke( documentsthis has
not been addressed tonightthat prohibit the unilateral diplomatic action this motion
would allow and which the same documents deem to undermine the prospect of a
negotiated settlement.
"n /BB> the 5alestine ?iberation rganisation committed itself to a declaration that
Kall outstanding issues relating to the permanent status will be resolved through
negotiations.L
,his was followed two (ears later b( the slo "" agreement# where the 5? said it
would not take an( step that would change the status of the 5alestinian territories
pending the outcome of the permanent status negotiations.
Sir Ed.ard Leigh (Gainsorough) (Con)
rose
Crispin Blunt (Reigate) (Con)
rose
$r 46ord:
" will not give wa( at the moment.
,hat principle has a binding validit( on all parties and has been subse)uentl(
rea!rmed as the onl( acceptable basis for a resolution.
Crispin Blunt
rose
Madam $eput! Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing):
rder. ,he hon. $entleman is not giving wa(.
$r 46ord:
,hank (ou# Madam =eput( Speaker.
,hat is also an agreement to which our $overnment of the @nited Jingdom# as part of
the -uropean @nion and the Puartet# are a signator(. ,herefore# this motion asks the
@J $overnment to break their commitment to the peace process. ,hat is not a
proposal that " can accept.
A negotiated two+state agreement would also resolve others issues# including
borders# securit( arrangements and recognition b( all of "srael:s right to e;ist# but
this motion would allow recognition of a 5alestinian state that would not even
recognise or even accept "srael:s /B4< borders. ,he former 1oreign Secretar(# the
right hon. Member for Blackburn (Mr Straw)# has called for the /B4< borders. "f we
had acceded to such re)uests in the past# the $olan heights would be in the hands of
S(ria or# in fact# "S"? nowada(s# meaning that "srael would not be able to continue to
e;ist# which " cannot accept.
Similarl(# the concept that the /B3O armistice lines should become a border with a
terror state is another irresponsible polic( and something in which the 5arliament of
an( liberal democrac( should not be involved in an( wa(. ,he battle that Britain and
our allies are a part of is to stop the spread of fundamentalist "slamist control over
the ?evantof which "srael is a partand not to speed it along.
Mr Stra.:
" am grateful to the hon. $entleman for giving wa(. "s he aware that when "
intervened on the right hon. and learned Member for Jensington (Sir Malcolm Difkind)
" was careful with m( language and spoke about an( borders being based on /B4<#
not resolutions7 ,hat is no diCerent from that which is contained in the *nal page of
the road map# which was endorsed b( the $overnment of "srael# among others.
$r 46ord:
" am grateful for that clari*cation.
Decognition of 5alestine appears attractive as it is considered to be the *rst step
towards the internalisation and perceived legitimisation that could allow diplomatic
and legal challenges to "srael through organisations that are perceived to be
s(mpathetic to 5alestinian grievances. ,he recognition of 5alestine would produce
signi*cant setbacks for the e;isting peace process and is bound to elicit a
retrenchment in the position of "srael when it has previousl( agreed statements that
have produced land swaps for peace.
Most infamousl(# that occurred in '00& when "srael undertook the unilateral move to
withdraw from $aFa. Members all know what has happened sinceG more than //#000
rockets have been *red from the $aFa strip into "srael b( terrorists. Some & million
"sraelis are currentl( living under threat of rocket attacks# and more than &00#000
"sraelis have less than 40 seconds to *nd shelter after a rocket is launched. ,hat
means that people in the biggest cities of "srael# including ,el Aviv# Herusalem and
%aifa# are all at risk.
n the other hand# negotiated peace deals# such as the -g(pt and "srael peace treat(
in /B<B and the "srael and Hordan peace treat( in /BB3# are e;amples of land being
relin)uished in return for stable peace negotiations. ,he same did not occur at the
6amp =avid negotiations in '000. ,he proposal to establish an independent
5alestinian state in virtuall( all of the west bank and $aFa# along with a 5alestinian
capital in -ast Herusalem# was re.ected because of the alternative condition that the
5alestinian Authorit( declare an end to the conIict as part of the *nal agreement.
6onse)uentl(# the proposal for the recognition of 5alestinian statehood without the
fundamental aspects of *nal+status negotiations# coupled with a reciprocal
agreement that relin)uishes further claims over lands# propert(# settlements# the
right to return and access to Herusalem# is premature.
Sir Ed.ard Leigh:
M( hon. 1riend said that he had not intended to speak and he seems to be making up
for that b( reading# at great speed# from an "sraeli $overnment handout. 6ould we at
least establish these ground rulesG those of us who support the motion are still *rm
friends of "srael and defend its right to securit(# but we also believe in .ustice for the
5alestinian people7
$r 46ord:
" am grateful for another helpful intervention# but " assure m( hon. 1riend that this is
certainl( not an "sraeli $overnment press release. M"nterruption.N " can hear another
hon. Member chuntering awa(# but never mind.
"t is vital that an( peace is achieved through negotiation and mutual agreement
between "srael and the 5alestinian Authorit(# not through unilateral moves or pre+
emptive recognition. 1ormal progress in peace deals has onl( ever been achieved
through bilateral talks# which remain the wa( forward for the peace process. 9o
credible peace+building initiative has ever emerged from the @9 $eneral Assembl(.
Both the @J $overnment and the 6onservative part( have been clear that bilateral
negotiations are the onl( path to a stable peace. " had understood that that was the
?abour part(:s polic(# but its Members seem to have been whipped to vote for this
motion because their leader cannot make up his own mind on "srael.
Members of 5arliament should vote against an( unilateral declaration of 5alestinian
statehood while making it clear that the( support the creation of a 5alestinian state
through direct bilateral negotiations between "srael and the 5alestinians. "t is of great
concern that the amendment tabled b( the right hon. Member for Blackburn has
been selected# because " felt that the amendment tabled b( m( hon. 1riend the
Member for Aberconw( ($uto Bebb) was more than ade)uate.
,he diplomatic process# realities on the ground# international law and not least the
@9 s(stem itself are likel( to suCer serious negative conse)uences if Members
accede to the 5alestinian attempt to remove the search for a two+state solution from
the established bilateral framework. "t is vital that we send a clear message that such
an approach# which the 5alestinian leadership has pursued since '0/0# is a dead end.
At best it is a costl( distraction and we should vote against this motion tonight.
<./O pm
Mr #ndre. Lo'e (Edmonton) (La*Co+op):
"n the short time available to me " want to give m( support to the motion for two
main reasons. 1irst# three (ears ago at the @nited 9ations# the then 1oreign Secretar(
said that 5alestine met the conditions and was read( for statehood. %ow long do the(
have to wait7 Secondl(# and perhaps more importantl(# against the backdrop of
recurring violence# regular incursions into $aFa and settlement+building activit(# we
urgentl( need to *nd new wa(s forward# and " believe that recognition can and
should be a part of that new process.
,he 5alestinians have waited a ver( long time for this debate# but the developing
international consensus is that 5alestine is read( for recognition. ne hundred and
thirt( four countries have now recognised it diplomaticall(# including some members
of the -uropean @nion# and the new Swedish $overnment made Sweden the />&th at
the beginning of ctober. @9 observer status was granted in '0// b( />O votes to
nine. ,here were 3/ abstentions# including b( the @nited Jingdom# but 1rance# "tal(
and Spain all voted (es. 6ontrar( to what the right hon. and learned Member for
Jensington (Sir Malcolm Difkind) said# the "nternational Monetar( 1und# the 8orld
Bank and the -uropean @nion have all separatel( reported that the institutions in
5alestine are appropriate for the formation of a state.
,he then 1oreign Secretar( elaborated the $overnment polic(# sa(ing that the
decision on recognition should be
Kat a moment of our choosing and when it can best help to bring about peaceL.
M!cial Deport# B 9ovember '0//2 Vol. &>&# c. 'B0.N
,here are man( reasons wh( the timing is now right. Decognition would give a ver(
clear signal about the illegalit( of occupation. 8e have talked incessantl( about
settlement building. ,here are &&0#000 settlers in 5alestinian territor(# and recent
announcements suggest that that *gure will increase rapidl(# so now is the time.
"eil Carmi(hael (Stroud) (Con):
"f we believe in internationalism and self+determination# is it not wholl( unacceptable#
un.ust and illogical not to allow the 5alestinians to have a state7
Mr Lo'e:
" shall come on to that# but the short answer is (es.
n settlements# we must take action now to ensure that the building activit( that so
undermines the whole peace process is brought to an end. " believe that recognition
will be a s(mbolic gesture towards that.
Decognition addresses real fears about the fact that the window of opportunit( for a
two+state solution is narrowing rapidl(. Man( now openl( )uestion whether it has an(
current validit(# but recognising 5alestinea second statewould help to ensure
such a solution. Decognition would help to highlight the root causes of the conIict
and address the c(cle of violence that has ravaged $aFa three times in recent (ears.
"t would strengthen rather than# as has been suggested in the %ouse# weaken the
voices of moderation and compromise on# " hope# not onl( the 5alestinian side but on
both sides. "t will help to avoid the dangers of adopting a one+state solution# which
would be a disastrous conclusion to the negotiating process. =eclaring that 5alestine
is the second state would undermine a one+state solution.
5eople have suggested that even if recognition were accepted# the 5alestinian
Authorit( would engage in some form of unilateralism. ,he realit( is that the 5? is in
no doubtit has stated this publicl(that the occupation can end onl( through a
negotiated settlement. 8e need to rea!rm that this evening.
,he motion has the great merit of acknowledging that statehood is solel( a bilateral
issue for the @nited Jingdom and 5alestine. Decognition should not be part of a
negotiated settlement. "srael would never have accepted that some other countr(
had a veto over its statehood# and we should not accept such a veto in the case of
5alestine.
8hat would be the conse)uences of re.ecting the motion7 "t would send a signal that
we do not think it is a priorit( to recognise the fundamental rights of the 5alestinian
people# particularl( their right to self+determination. 8e would underpla( the need for
a viable sovereign 5alestinian state# which our 1oreign Secretar( has said is in place.
8e would accept an e;tension of the "sraeli militar( occupation# which is now in its
3Oth (ear# and enshrine it further into the future.
8e should vote in favour of recognition because it will strengthen the belief of the
5alestinians in diplomac( and democratic debate# which will go a long wa( to
improving the climate for the discussions
Madam $eput! Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing):
rder.
<.'& pm
Sir -ugh Roertson (3a'ersham and Mid 0ent) (Con):
"t is a great pleasure# as alwa(s# to follow the hon. Member for -dmonton (Mr ?ove)#
and the man( right hon. and hon. Members who have alread( made e;cellent
speeches.
As the last Minister out of the washing machine on this topic# it is appropriate for me#
on behalf of Members from across the %ouse# to pa( tribute to the man( e;cellent
people at the 1oreign !ce# both in the Bo; and in our two e;cellent missions in the
embass( in ,el Aviv and the consulate in -ast Herusalemabl( led b( Matthew $ould#
Sir Vincent 1ean and Alastair Mc5hailwho have done so much# along with their staC
from the 1oreign !ce# the =epartment for "nternational =evelopment and those
emplo(ed locall(# to represent our interests and to help the people of the region. All
of us genuinel( owe them a great deal.
ver the past (ear# m( time was dominated b( the Jerr( peace plan. ,hat process
initiall( e;cited much optimism# but " am afraid that it was ultimatel( doomed# like
man( of its predecessors. 8hen " was thinking about what " could usefull( sa( toda(#
m( e(es were drawn to a line in Honathan 5owell:s new bookit was reviewed at the
weekendwhich statesG
KA deal depends on personal chemistr( and uncommon leadershipL.
%aving studied this area in detail over the past (ear# " regret to sa( that both of those
factors were absent during the most recent round of negotiations.
8hat did we learn from those negotiations about the middle east peace process and
the connected issue of recognising the state of 5alestine7 1irst# " genuinel( believe
that there will be no deal unless the international communit( not onl( remains
engaged in the process# but drives it. ,he @S is the onl( power in the world that can
force the necessar( concessions from the "sraeli $overnment and meet their securit(
concerns. ,he Jerr( peace plan remains an e;cellent basis for restarting negotiations.
,he reconstruction of a 5alestinian state will re)uire the sort of $ulf mone( that has
been evident# and welcome# in 6airo over the weekend# so keeping the wider Arab
world involved is ke(. -g(pt also has a ke( role to pla(# and the @J needs a more
consistent polic( on -g(pt. 8e have uni)ue bilateral relationship with itG we are the
largest bilateral investor in the countr(# and about / million British tourists travel
there each (ear. Desolution of the $aFa issue depends as much on the -g(ptians as
the "sraelis. 8e should deal positivel( with 6airo for the greater good of the region.
Secondl(# having secured proactive international bu(+in# we need to freeFe the
situation on the ground and bu( some time for the negotiations. At the moment#
ever( hurdle and obstacle on the wa( is met with terrorist violence and
announcements about more settlements. "f there is much more building# particularl(
on area 6# a two+state solution will fast become undeliverable# and we will be left with
the one+state option that is in no one:s interests.
Sir #lan $un(an:
8as m( right hon. 1riend:s e;perience that Mahmoud Abbas was a genuine partner
for peace7
Sir -ugh Roertson:
"t absolutel( was. B( the same token# " believe that man( people on the "sraeli side
are genuine partners for peace. " am afraid# however# that the abilit( to make the
crucial decisions and the reall( tough compromises necessar( to deliver a peace
process was in the end absent# as the( have been in the past.
,hirdl(# the international communit( needs to look at an appropriate and calibrated
programme of incentives and disincentives at ke( points in a peace process# and
recognition of a 5alestinian state is one ke( component. "t will be e;traordinaril(
di!cult# but the process must be done in such a wa( that it is in neither side:s
interest to derail it.
1inall(# " fear that we need in practice to look again at our own polic(. %aving sat on
the 1ront Bench onl( a few months ago# " know that the Minister is bound to sa( that
the British polic( is to support a two+state solutionthat is goodbased on the /B4<
boundaries# with agreed land swaps. %owever# as " did when " stood looking at a
settlement in -ast Herusalem# we have to recognise that the international communit(
lacks the will to bulldoFe U/ million houses built illegall( in settlements. 8e will have
to form a new border# probabl( based on the wall# and then deal with the settlements
be(ond it if we are to make an( progress.
" *rml( believe that the principle of a 5alestinian state is right and fair. " am delighted
to be a signator( to the former 1oreign Secretar(:s amendment to that eCect.
%owever# " feel that declaring it unilaterall( at this time could well be the catal(st for
a further period of instabilit(. ,he international communit( needs to re+engage on this
issue as never before# led b( the @SA with the Arab world and -g(pt alongside it. "t
must la( out a road map# including incentives and disincentives# to a *nal agreement
in which the recognition of a 5alestinian state is a ke( milestone. ,here is no doubt
that that will be e;traordinaril( di!cult# as man( of our predecessors have found# but
the alternative is unacceptabl( grim. ,his %ouse can pla( a part in that process
tonight.
<.>0 pm
Ian Paisle! ("orth #ntrim) ($%P):
,his is the *rst opportunit( that " have had to speak in a debate in this %ouse since
/' September# when m( father passed awa(. "t gives me the opportunit( to sa( thank
(ou to the man( Members who contacted me and e;pressed their condolences. "t
was much appreciated. "t is apt that " am speaking in a debate that touches on the
issue of peace processes and peace processing. "t provides an opportunit( to look at
some of the lessons that the %ouse should have learned when dealing with a divided
nation and a divided land.
"srael and 5alestine are often described as the promised land. ,his mother of
5arliaments has an opportunit( to ensure that it does not become a broken promised
land. ,his 5arliament can pla( a part in ensuring that the promises are honoured and
cemented. 8hat we see happening in that part of the world is cruel and unfair in
man( people:s e(es. "t deserves our attention. "t deserves to be healed.
%owever# this %ouse# which is often described as the mother of 5arliaments# must not
become the arrogant 5arliament. "t must not assume that it has the right to tell
people how to sort out their peace processes# when it knows that there is a better
wa(. "t has proved in its own back(ard in 9orthern "reland that there are better steps
and better wa(s.
"n m( brief comments " want to draw attention to two lessons that have to be
learned. " raised one of them at the beginning of the debate in m( intervention on the
mover of this important motion# the hon. Member for -asington ($rahame M. Morris)#
in which " spoke of our e;perience as a 5arliament and as a nation. %is part( and this
5arliament pla(ed an important role in ensuring that the conclusion of the
negotiations was not set in stone in advance of the negotiations or during the
negotiations. ,he participants in the process must be allowed to *nd their own
conclusions. " was told that that argument would be devastated and set aside. "t is
unfortunate that that argument has not been addressed. "t cannot be addressed
because this %ouse knows that it is right. ,his %ouse knows that the participants
have to *nd their wa(2 the( cannot be told# lectured or dictated to on what is the best
wa(.
,his motion# which is well meaning# well intentioned and supported b( friends and
colleagues on all sides of the argument# would therefore do the wrong thing at the
wrong time# because it would be sa(ing# K%ere is the conclusion that the %ouse will
reach.L ,hat is wrong. As we have heard from other Members# more than />0 other
5arliaments and processes have said that that is the conclusion that the( will reach#
but it has not made a bit of diCerence. 8e must therefore step back and realise that
there is a better wa(.
,he other lesson that " want to draw from our e;perience of being involved in a peace
process is that we must not pour fuel on alread( burning Iames. ,o recognise the
state of 5alestine at this time# when signi*cant and strong elements in the 5alestinian
negotiating process do not even recognise "srael and would not allow that state to
e;ist# would be to make an alread( di!cult situation worse. Although no one here
claims to have the answers to the process# we must# as a rule# tread carefull(.
,he hon. Member for Birmingham# 9orth*eld (Dichard Burden) said that people want
to see light at the end of the tunnel. " agree with that. %owever# we do not want to
see Iames in the tunnel# because all we would get is more smoke.
4.&> pm
Mike 1ood (Batle! and Spen) (La):
"# too# congratulate m( hon. 1riend the Member for -asington ($rahame M. Morris) on
securing this debate2 he has done all in the %ouse a great service.
" cannot think wh( an( supporter of "srael should oppose the recognition of a
5alestinian state. 8e know the histor( of "srael from its beginnings in /B3O# as
outlined b( m( right hon. 1riend the Member for Manchester# $orton (Sir $erald
Jaufman). 8e know about the si;+da( war in /B4< and about "srael:s present
situation. "n '0/># Mr Jerr( warned that there were onl( two (ears to resolve this
Iashpoint and that time was running out. %e was surel( talking to the "sraelis as
much as to the 5alestinians. ,he two+state solution is disappearing rapidl( before our
ver( e(es.
8e have to grapple with the issue of what will happen if there are not two states.
8hat does the one+state solution look like7 8e are told that the ma.orit( of the
present "sraeli Administration no longer accept a two+state solution. Mr 9etan(ahu
has suddenl( become a rather centrist pragmatist# holding together a coalition# man(
of whom are to the right of him# in wanting a one+state solution. =o the( accept the
genocide and ethnic cleansing that go along with that7
,he situation is far worse than that in apartheid South Africa# which has been
mentioned. "t has been regularl( referred to as a parallel to what is going on in
5alestine# but the situation in 5alestine is much worse than apartheid. ,he white .unta
in South Africa accepted that somewhere in the countr(preferabl( not near them
there would be land for black people. "t was the worst possible land and a long wa(
from the ruling white group# but none the less the .unta accepted that there would be
a place for the blacks. A one+state solution in "srael does not accept such a thing.
,here is no place in "srael and 5alestine for the 5alestinians. 8e have to face s)uarel(
what that means and so do the "sraelis. ,hat is even more reason wh( we should not
give the "sraelis a veto over 5alestinian statehood.
8e will be voting tonight for the recognition of a 5alestinian state. ,hat is not .ust
about recognising the inalienable right of 5alestinians to freedom and self+
determination but about "srael:s need to be saved from itself. 8hat "srael is looking at
in a one+state solution is a continuation# (ear after (ear# of war and violence such as
we have seen building in the past '0 (ears. ,he "sraelis have .ust *nished a third
incursion into $aFa in /0 (ears. Are we suggesting that ever( two (ears another
/#&00 people should be killed and another /00#000 people rendered homeless as a
continuation of the process of driving ever(bod( who is not Hewish out of what is
considered to be greater "srael7
Mrs Ellman:
8ill m( hon. 1riend give wa(7
Mike 1ood:
" would prefer not to# if m( hon. 1riend does not mind.
,he occupation and e;ile have to end. ,here is never an( peace without .ustice.
Statehood for 5alestine would strengthen
Madam $eput! Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing):
rder. " call =avid 8ard.
4.&O pm
Mr $a'id 1ard (Brad/ord East) (L$):
" congratulate the hon. Member for -asington ($rahame M. Morris) on securing the
debate# which is so important.
As a (oung man# " backpacked around "srael and had a wonderful time. " sta(ed at
various hostelsin -in+$edi# Herusalem# ,el Aviv and -ilat. " swam in the dead sea and
went to Masada. " loved the place and its people and " wanted to return. " went back
and spent time working with Mashav in the Arabic desert and living with an "sraeli
famil(. 8e had man( discussions as we sat on our upturned vegetable bo;es# drinking
tea and taking a break from picking peppers and tomatoes. ,he farmer# the head of
the famil(# told me over and again about his personal e;perienceshis militar(
service and how proud he had been to do what he felt was his dut( in representing
his countr( in the militar(. 1rom where we were sitting# we could almost touch the
Hordanian mountains a few miles awa(. %e also told me about the real e;istential
threat involved in being surrounded b( what he regarded as hostile Arab states. "
have never forgotten that or sought to trivialise it in an( wa(# or to minimise the
sense of insecurit( that "sraelis must feel.
,hat sense of insecurit(felt b( man( Hews# " suppose# throughout the centurieshas
occurred as the( suCered persecution throughout eastern and western -urope# and
be(ond. ,hat persecution# as we all know# included an attempt at annihilation. Puite
apart from the Rionist agenda# the need for a place to be safe somewhere was so
important because of the failure to *nd safet( from persecution in man( other places.
All that is perfectl( understandable# but what " do not understand is wh( the
5alestinians should have had to pa( such a terrible price for the creation of the state
of "srael# where it was believed that securit( could be created# or wh( the "sraelis
believed that the brutal e;pulsion and continued suppression of the 5alestinians
would ever lead to the sense of securit( that the( seek.
" remember a meeting not too long ago in one of the big 6ommittee rooms in the
%ouse of 6ommons at which there were lots of members of the 5alestinian
communit(. " said that the "sraelis were winning2 " was in despair at the lack of
progress. " said that the( will not negotiate and asked wh( should the( when the
immense support of the @S and the inaction of the international communit( at large
meant that the( were gaining# da( in and da( out# and could ignore international law#
continue to act with impunit(# and# of course# increase their holding of 5alestinian
land. But a 5alestinian rebuked me# sa(ing that the( were not winning because K8e
have not forgotten and we never will forget.L %ow can the "sraelis believe that the(
can ever have securit(# because the 5alestinians will never forget7
Bo Ste.art (Be(kenham) (Con):
M( wife# who is a delegate of the "nternational 6ommittee of the Ded 6ross# met
man( 5alestinians in south ?ebanon who still have ke(s round their neck on a string
from the house that the( were e.ected from in the late /B30s. ,he( will not forget.
Mr 1ard:
"ndeedhow could the(7
" support the motion for man( reasons# but " will state three. 1irst# for the 5alestinians
to turn awa( from the men of violence# the( need hope# and this motion represents a
degree of hope for them. Much is made of the failure of %amas to recognise "srael#
and we know about that# but let us imagine the sense of despair that ordinar(
5alestinians must feel at the failure of the international communit( to recognise their
right to e;ist. M( tweet on the *ring of rockets out of $aFa and the previous
comments b( Baroness ,onge were never# of course# condoning terrorist acts b(
5alestinians2 the( were simpl( our recognition of the despair and sense of
hopelessness that leads to terrorism.
Secondl(# "srael is in breach of the contract set out in the Balfour declaration stating
that
Knothing shall be done which ma( pre.udice the civil and religious rights of e;isting
non+Hewish communities in 5alestineL.
"n the light of the 9akba and ever(thing since# that seems like a sick .oke. ,he failure
of the international communit( to recognise the state of 5alestine has helped "srael to
ignore this commitment.
,hirdl(# on a personal note# this Sunda( at -den 6amp in north Eorkshire there will be
a gathering of the 5alestine veterans. ,he( will parade at / o:clock# but man( of them
will not be able to walk ver( far# if at allthe( are all over the age of O0. ,he( went
to that land in /B3& as a peacekeeping force# but lost over <00 members of the
armed forces and '00 police. " believe that we owe it to them for tonight:s motion to
succeed. Man( were not conscripts2 man( were veterans of Arnhem# 9ormand( and
Bergen+Belsen. Man( felt# and still feel# betra(ed b( "srael and )uestion the sacri*ce
that so man( of their colleagues made. "f this vote on recognising the right of
5alestinians is won# the( will ver( much welcome it# but it has been so long in
coming.
<.3 pm
#nas Sar.ar (Glasgo. Central) (La):
" am delighted to have the opportunit( to speak in this historic debate on the
recognition of statehood for 5alestineG one small part in righting a profound and
lasting wrong. " congratulate m( hon. 1riend the Member for -asington ($rahame M.
Morris) on securing the debate and# in so doing# again demonstrating his
commitment to .ustice and to the region. ,his issue has widespread public support in
the @J and across the world. ,hat has been shown b( the hundreds of thousands of
people who took to the streets over the summer to protest against the continued
bloodshed in the region# and b( the Iooding of Members: in+bo;es b( constituents
asking us to support this important motion.
As we have heard# this debate follows on from the failure of the @J $overnment to
support 5alestinian statehood at the @9. "n '0// and in '0/'# ?abour Members urged
the $overnment to support the 5alestinians: bid for recognition at the @9. ?et us be
clearG this was a missed opportunit( and a shameful moment for the @nited Jingdom
and our claim to be leaders on the international stage for .ustice and democrac(. ,he
selective wa( in which the British $overnment appl( their force and resource is#
sadl(# self+evident. " am therefore pleased that this motion has strong cross+part(
support and that it does not split on part( lines# or even between those who class
themselves as pro+5alestinian or pro+"sraeli. Dather# it is a motion that is pro+.ustice
and pro+peace.
5alestinian statehood is in the interests of the people of 5alestine and the people of
"srael# because with statehood come rights and responsibilities. ,he rights are the
abilit( to govern freel(# both politicall( and in the .udiciar(2 the powers and the
infrastructure that# we hope# will deliver for the people2 and economic freedom# with
the abilit( of the countr( to grow its own econom( and create prosperit(. 5alestine
has the resources and the skills to be a self+sustaining# functioning countr(. "n '0/0#
the @9 found that the overall cost of the occupation to the 5alestinian econom( was
estimated at nearl( S< billion# or a staggering O&T of $=5. As " said# there are not
onl( rights but responsibilities. Statehood obliges the 5alestinian $overnment to
respect# protect and ful*l human rights for their people. "t re)uires 5alestinian forces
to abide b( international rules on armed conIict# and it re)uires the 5alestinian
people to accept and learn to co+e;ist with all their neighbours. ,he recognition of a
state is not an endorsement of an( political part( or an( group within $aFa or the
west bankfar from it.
,here are moments when the e(es of the world are on this place# and " believe that
this is one of those moments. 8hat message will we send to the international
communit(7 ,here will be those living in 5alestine who keep hearing that word#
KpeaceL# while at the same time seeing a continued occupation# an ongoing
blockade# further e;pansion of illegal settlements# and the never+ending c(cle of
violence and bloodshed# causing fear on both sides of the conIict.
Mr $a'id 1inni(k (1alsall "orth) (La):
=id m( hon. 1riend see the *lm on Saturda( on BB6 '# K,he $atekeepersL# which
showed the people who were at the most senior level of the "sraeli securit( service#
now retired# urging for the sake of "srael itself a willingness on the part of the "sraeli
$overnment to negotiate with all# including %amas7 "t is a great pit( that the "sraeli
$overnment refuse to accept such common sense.
#nas Sar.ar:
" thank m( hon. 1riend for that intervention. ,he ke( point is that there is widespread
support within "srael for this motion on the statehood of 5alestine. 5eople who are
friends of "srael# who are "sraelis# and who class themselves as part of the struggle to
*nd a peaceful resolution for the people of "srael recognise that the motion is not
onl( in the interests of 5alestine but fundamentall( in the interests of "srael too.
,o go back to the issue of previous false dawns in 5alestine# the people there have
been hearing warm words for decades# but " am sorr( to sa( that words are no longer
enough. ur best chance of seeing a re.ection of violence and militant forces is b(
rekindling hope so that people can stop hearing the word peace and start living its
true meaning.
,his motion is an opportunit( to start addressing decades of failure# which are a
shame on the entire international communit(. "t has been said that supporting the
motion somehow undermines peace and the two+state solution# but it actuall( does
the opposite. ,his motion does not disregard the two+state solution2 it endorses it.
,his motion does not undermine the peace processthere is no peace and there is
no processbut it shows that we are serious about *nding a lasting solution. ,his
motion does not damage Britain:s role or undermine its standing in the international
communit(2 it actuall( goes a long wa( to restoring its standing in the international
communit(. ,his motion is not a failure of leadership2 it is a demonstration of it. ,hat
is wh( " will passionatel( and proudl( walk through the A(e ?obb( tonight.
<./0 pm
$r Matthe. 46ord (-endon) (Con):
" had not anticipated being called to speak# so " am grateful to (ou# Madam =eput(
Speaker.
,he proposal for this %ouse to recognise 5alestinian statehood is not onl( premature#
but misguided. An a!rmative vote tonight would be nothing more than a propaganda
victor( for those who wish to b(pass the mediation of the peace process in favour of
international institutions such as the @nited 9ations where the 5alestinian Authorit(
en.o( an automatic ma.orit(.
,hree (ears ago 5resident Abbas made it e;plicit that the attempt unilaterall( to
assert statehood through the @9 was to ensure that it
Kwould pave the wa( for the internationalisation of the conIict as a legal matter# not
onl( a political one. "t would also pave the wa( for usL
the 5alestinian Authorit(
Kto pursue claims against "srael at the @nited 9ations# human rights treat( bodies
and the international 6ourt of Hustice.L
,he 5alestinian Authorit( are seeking to create opportunities for new diplomatic and
legal fronts on the conIict with "srael that enable a distraction# an alternative and an
escape route from the bilateral principle entailed in the slo accords and subse)uent
diplomatic frameworks.
&erem! Cor!n
rose
Grahame M. Morris
rose
$r 46ord:
" will not give wa( at the moment.
,he proposers of this motion are aiding those eCorts and turning their backs on the
peace process. ,hat is not a proposal that " can accept.
,he middle east peace process is underpinned b( several ke( documentsthis has
not been addressed tonightthat prohibit the unilateral diplomatic action this motion
would allow and which the same documents deem to undermine the prospect of a
negotiated settlement.
"n /BB> the 5alestine ?iberation rganisation committed itself to a declaration that
Kall outstanding issues relating to the permanent status will be resolved through
negotiations.L
,his was followed two (ears later b( the slo "" agreement# where the 5? said it
would not take an( step that would change the status of the 5alestinian territories
pending the outcome of the permanent status negotiations.
Sir Ed.ard Leigh (Gainsorough) (Con)
rose
Crispin Blunt (Reigate) (Con)
rose
$r 46ord:
" will not give wa( at the moment.
,hat principle has a binding validit( on all parties and has been subse)uentl(
rea!rmed as the onl( acceptable basis for a resolution.
Crispin Blunt
rose
Madam $eput! Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing):
rder. ,he hon. $entleman is not giving wa(.
$r 46ord:
,hank (ou# Madam =eput( Speaker.
,hat is also an agreement to which our $overnment of the @nited Jingdom# as part of
the -uropean @nion and the Puartet# are a signator(. ,herefore# this motion asks the
@J $overnment to break their commitment to the peace process. ,hat is not a
proposal that " can accept.
A negotiated two+state agreement would also resolve others issues# including
borders# securit( arrangements and recognition b( all of "srael:s right to e;ist# but
this motion would allow recognition of a 5alestinian state that would not even
recognise or even accept "srael:s /B4< borders. ,he former 1oreign Secretar(# the
right hon. Member for Blackburn (Mr Straw)# has called for the /B4< borders. "f we
had acceded to such re)uests in the past# the $olan heights would be in the hands of
S(ria or# in fact# "S"? nowada(s# meaning that "srael would not be able to continue to
e;ist# which " cannot accept.
Similarl(# the concept that the /B3O armistice lines should become a border with a
terror state is another irresponsible polic( and something in which the 5arliament of
an( liberal democrac( should not be involved in an( wa(. ,he battle that Britain and
our allies are a part of is to stop the spread of fundamentalist "slamist control over
the ?evantof which "srael is a partand not to speed it along.
Mr Stra.:
" am grateful to the hon. $entleman for giving wa(. "s he aware that when "
intervened on the right hon. and learned Member for Jensington (Sir Malcolm Difkind)
" was careful with m( language and spoke about an( borders being based on /B4<#
not resolutions7 ,hat is no diCerent from that which is contained in the *nal page of
the road map# which was endorsed b( the $overnment of "srael# among others.
$r 46ord:
" am grateful for that clari*cation.
Decognition of 5alestine appears attractive as it is considered to be the *rst step
towards the internalisation and perceived legitimisation that could allow diplomatic
and legal challenges to "srael through organisations that are perceived to be
s(mpathetic to 5alestinian grievances. ,he recognition of 5alestine would produce
signi*cant setbacks for the e;isting peace process and is bound to elicit a
retrenchment in the position of "srael when it has previousl( agreed statements that
have produced land swaps for peace.
Most infamousl(# that occurred in '00& when "srael undertook the unilateral move to
withdraw from $aFa. Members all know what has happened sinceG more than //#000
rockets have been *red from the $aFa strip into "srael b( terrorists. Some & million
"sraelis are currentl( living under threat of rocket attacks# and more than &00#000
"sraelis have less than 40 seconds to *nd shelter after a rocket is launched. ,hat
means that people in the biggest cities of "srael# including ,el Aviv# Herusalem and
%aifa# are all at risk.
n the other hand# negotiated peace deals# such as the -g(pt and "srael peace treat(
in /B<B and the "srael and Hordan peace treat( in /BB3# are e;amples of land being
relin)uished in return for stable peace negotiations. ,he same did not occur at the
6amp =avid negotiations in '000. ,he proposal to establish an independent
5alestinian state in virtuall( all of the west bank and $aFa# along with a 5alestinian
capital in -ast Herusalem# was re.ected because of the alternative condition that the
5alestinian Authorit( declare an end to the conIict as part of the *nal agreement.
6onse)uentl(# the proposal for the recognition of 5alestinian statehood without the
fundamental aspects of *nal+status negotiations# coupled with a reciprocal
agreement that relin)uishes further claims over lands# propert(# settlements# the
right to return and access to Herusalem# is premature.
Sir Ed.ard Leigh:
M( hon. 1riend said that he had not intended to speak and he seems to be making up
for that b( reading# at great speed# from an "sraeli $overnment handout. 6ould we at
least establish these ground rulesG those of us who support the motion are still *rm
friends of "srael and defend its right to securit(# but we also believe in .ustice for the
5alestinian people7
$r 46ord:
" am grateful for another helpful intervention# but " assure m( hon. 1riend that this is
certainl( not an "sraeli $overnment press release. M"nterruption.N " can hear another
hon. Member chuntering awa(# but never mind.
"t is vital that an( peace is achieved through negotiation and mutual agreement
between "srael and the 5alestinian Authorit(# not through unilateral moves or pre+
emptive recognition. 1ormal progress in peace deals has onl( ever been achieved
through bilateral talks# which remain the wa( forward for the peace process. 9o
credible peace+building initiative has ever emerged from the @9 $eneral Assembl(.
Both the @J $overnment and the 6onservative part( have been clear that bilateral
negotiations are the onl( path to a stable peace. " had understood that that was the
?abour part(:s polic(# but its Members seem to have been whipped to vote for this
motion because their leader cannot make up his own mind on "srael.
Members of 5arliament should vote against an( unilateral declaration of 5alestinian
statehood while making it clear that the( support the creation of a 5alestinian state
through direct bilateral negotiations between "srael and the 5alestinians. "t is of great
concern that the amendment tabled b( the right hon. Member for Blackburn has
been selected# because " felt that the amendment tabled b( m( hon. 1riend the
Member for Aberconw( ($uto Bebb) was more than ade)uate.
,he diplomatic process# realities on the ground# international law and not least the
@9 s(stem itself are likel( to suCer serious negative conse)uences if Members
accede to the 5alestinian attempt to remove the search for a two+state solution from
the established bilateral framework. "t is vital that we send a clear message that such
an approach# which the 5alestinian leadership has pursued since '0/0# is a dead end.
At best it is a costl( distraction and we should vote against this motion tonight.
<./O pm
Mr #ndre. Lo'e (Edmonton) (La*Co+op):
"n the short time available to me " want to give m( support to the motion for two
main reasons. 1irst# three (ears ago at the @nited 9ations# the then 1oreign Secretar(
said that 5alestine met the conditions and was read( for statehood. %ow long do the(
have to wait7 Secondl(# and perhaps more importantl(# against the backdrop of
recurring violence# regular incursions into $aFa and settlement+building activit(# we
urgentl( need to *nd new wa(s forward# and " believe that recognition can and
should be a part of that new process.
,he 5alestinians have waited a ver( long time for this debate# but the developing
international consensus is that 5alestine is read( for recognition. ne hundred and
thirt( four countries have now recognised it diplomaticall(# including some members
of the -uropean @nion# and the new Swedish $overnment made Sweden the />&th at
the beginning of ctober. @9 observer status was granted in '0// b( />O votes to
nine. ,here were 3/ abstentions# including b( the @nited Jingdom# but 1rance# "tal(
and Spain all voted (es. 6ontrar( to what the right hon. and learned Member for
Jensington (Sir Malcolm Difkind) said# the "nternational Monetar( 1und# the 8orld
Bank and the -uropean @nion have all separatel( reported that the institutions in
5alestine are appropriate for the formation of a state.
,he then 1oreign Secretar( elaborated the $overnment polic(# sa(ing that the
decision on recognition should be
Kat a moment of our choosing and when it can best help to bring about peaceL.
M!cial Deport# B 9ovember '0//2 Vol. &>&# c. 'B0.N
,here are man( reasons wh( the timing is now right. Decognition would give a ver(
clear signal about the illegalit( of occupation. 8e have talked incessantl( about
settlement building. ,here are &&0#000 settlers in 5alestinian territor(# and recent
announcements suggest that that *gure will increase rapidl(# so now is the time.
"eil Carmi(hael (Stroud) (Con):
"f we believe in internationalism and self+determination# is it not wholl( unacceptable#
un.ust and illogical not to allow the 5alestinians to have a state7
Mr Lo'e:
" shall come on to that# but the short answer is (es.
n settlements# we must take action now to ensure that the building activit( that so
undermines the whole peace process is brought to an end. " believe that recognition
will be a s(mbolic gesture towards that.
Decognition addresses real fears about the fact that the window of opportunit( for a
two+state solution is narrowing rapidl(. Man( now openl( )uestion whether it has an(
current validit(# but recognising 5alestinea second statewould help to ensure
such a solution. Decognition would help to highlight the root causes of the conIict
and address the c(cle of violence that has ravaged $aFa three times in recent (ears.
"t would strengthen rather than# as has been suggested in the %ouse# weaken the
voices of moderation and compromise on# " hope# not onl( the 5alestinian side but on
both sides. "t will help to avoid the dangers of adopting a one+state solution# which
would be a disastrous conclusion to the negotiating process. =eclaring that 5alestine
is the second state would undermine a one+state solution.
5eople have suggested that even if recognition were accepted# the 5alestinian
Authorit( would engage in some form of unilateralism. ,he realit( is that the 5? is in
no doubtit has stated this publicl(that the occupation can end onl( through a
negotiated settlement. 8e need to rea!rm that this evening.
,he motion has the great merit of acknowledging that statehood is solel( a bilateral
issue for the @nited Jingdom and 5alestine. Decognition should not be part of a
negotiated settlement. "srael would never have accepted that some other countr(
had a veto over its statehood# and we should not accept such a veto in the case of
5alestine.
8hat would be the conse)uences of re.ecting the motion7 "t would send a signal that
we do not think it is a priorit( to recognise the fundamental rights of the 5alestinian
people# particularl( their right to self+determination. 8e would underpla( the need for
a viable sovereign 5alestinian state# which our 1oreign Secretar( has said is in place.
8e would accept an e;tension of the "sraeli militar( occupation# which is now in its
3Oth (ear# and enshrine it further into the future.
8e should vote in favour of recognition because it will strengthen the belief of the
5alestinians in diplomac( and democratic debate# which will go a long wa( to
improving the climate for the discussions
Madam $eput! Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing):
rder.
<.'& pm
Sir -ugh Roertson (3a'ersham and Mid 0ent) (Con):
"t is a great pleasure# as alwa(s# to follow the hon. Member for -dmonton (Mr ?ove)#
and the man( right hon. and hon. Members who have alread( made e;cellent
speeches.
As the last Minister out of the washing machine on this topic# it is appropriate for me#
on behalf of Members from across the %ouse# to pa( tribute to the man( e;cellent
people at the 1oreign !ce# both in the Bo; and in our two e;cellent missions in the
embass( in ,el Aviv and the consulate in -ast Herusalemabl( led b( Matthew $ould#
Sir Vincent 1ean and Alastair Mc5hailwho have done so much# along with their staC
from the 1oreign !ce# the =epartment for "nternational =evelopment and those
emplo(ed locall(# to represent our interests and to help the people of the region. All
of us genuinel( owe them a great deal.
ver the past (ear# m( time was dominated b( the Jerr( peace plan. ,hat process
initiall( e;cited much optimism# but " am afraid that it was ultimatel( doomed# like
man( of its predecessors. 8hen " was thinking about what " could usefull( sa( toda(#
m( e(es were drawn to a line in Honathan 5owell:s new bookit was reviewed at the
weekendwhich statesG
KA deal depends on personal chemistr( and uncommon leadershipL.
%aving studied this area in detail over the past (ear# " regret to sa( that both of those
factors were absent during the most recent round of negotiations.
8hat did we learn from those negotiations about the middle east peace process and
the connected issue of recognising the state of 5alestine7 1irst# " genuinel( believe
that there will be no deal unless the international communit( not onl( remains
engaged in the process# but drives it. ,he @S is the onl( power in the world that can
force the necessar( concessions from the "sraeli $overnment and meet their securit(
concerns. ,he Jerr( peace plan remains an e;cellent basis for restarting negotiations.
,he reconstruction of a 5alestinian state will re)uire the sort of $ulf mone( that has
been evident# and welcome# in 6airo over the weekend# so keeping the wider Arab
world involved is ke(. -g(pt also has a ke( role to pla(# and the @J needs a more
consistent polic( on -g(pt. 8e have uni)ue bilateral relationship with itG we are the
largest bilateral investor in the countr(# and about / million British tourists travel
there each (ear. Desolution of the $aFa issue depends as much on the -g(ptians as
the "sraelis. 8e should deal positivel( with 6airo for the greater good of the region.
Secondl(# having secured proactive international bu(+in# we need to freeFe the
situation on the ground and bu( some time for the negotiations. At the moment#
ever( hurdle and obstacle on the wa( is met with terrorist violence and
announcements about more settlements. "f there is much more building# particularl(
on area 6# a two+state solution will fast become undeliverable# and we will be left with
the one+state option that is in no one:s interests.
Sir #lan $un(an:
8as m( right hon. 1riend:s e;perience that Mahmoud Abbas was a genuine partner
for peace7
Sir -ugh Roertson:
"t absolutel( was. B( the same token# " believe that man( people on the "sraeli side
are genuine partners for peace. " am afraid# however# that the abilit( to make the
crucial decisions and the reall( tough compromises necessar( to deliver a peace
process was in the end absent# as the( have been in the past.
,hirdl(# the international communit( needs to look at an appropriate and calibrated
programme of incentives and disincentives at ke( points in a peace process# and
recognition of a 5alestinian state is one ke( component. "t will be e;traordinaril(
di!cult# but the process must be done in such a wa( that it is in neither side:s
interest to derail it.
1inall(# " fear that we need in practice to look again at our own polic(. %aving sat on
the 1ront Bench onl( a few months ago# " know that the Minister is bound to sa( that
the British polic( is to support a two+state solutionthat is goodbased on the /B4<
boundaries# with agreed land swaps. %owever# as " did when " stood looking at a
settlement in -ast Herusalem# we have to recognise that the international communit(
lacks the will to bulldoFe U/ million houses built illegall( in settlements. 8e will have
to form a new border# probabl( based on the wall# and then deal with the settlements
be(ond it if we are to make an( progress.
" *rml( believe that the principle of a 5alestinian state is right and fair. " am delighted
to be a signator( to the former 1oreign Secretar(:s amendment to that eCect.
%owever# " feel that declaring it unilaterall( at this time could well be the catal(st for
a further period of instabilit(. ,he international communit( needs to re+engage on this
issue as never before# led b( the @SA with the Arab world and -g(pt alongside it. "t
must la( out a road map# including incentives and disincentives# to a *nal agreement
in which the recognition of a 5alestinian state is a ke( milestone. ,here is no doubt
that that will be e;traordinaril( di!cult# as man( of our predecessors have found# but
the alternative is unacceptabl( grim. ,his %ouse can pla( a part in that process
tonight.
<.>0 pm
Ian Paisle! ("orth #ntrim) ($%P):
,his is the *rst opportunit( that " have had to speak in a debate in this %ouse since
/' September# when m( father passed awa(. "t gives me the opportunit( to sa( thank
(ou to the man( Members who contacted me and e;pressed their condolences. "t
was much appreciated. "t is apt that " am speaking in a debate that touches on the
issue of peace processes and peace processing. "t provides an opportunit( to look at
some of the lessons that the %ouse should have learned when dealing with a divided
nation and a divided land.
"srael and 5alestine are often described as the promised land. ,his mother of
5arliaments has an opportunit( to ensure that it does not become a broken promised
land. ,his 5arliament can pla( a part in ensuring that the promises are honoured and
cemented. 8hat we see happening in that part of the world is cruel and unfair in
man( people:s e(es. "t deserves our attention. "t deserves to be healed.
%owever# this %ouse# which is often described as the mother of 5arliaments# must not
become the arrogant 5arliament. "t must not assume that it has the right to tell
people how to sort out their peace processes# when it knows that there is a better
wa(. "t has proved in its own back(ard in 9orthern "reland that there are better steps
and better wa(s.
"n m( brief comments " want to draw attention to two lessons that have to be
learned. " raised one of them at the beginning of the debate in m( intervention on the
mover of this important motion# the hon. Member for -asington ($rahame M. Morris)#
in which " spoke of our e;perience as a 5arliament and as a nation. %is part( and this
5arliament pla(ed an important role in ensuring that the conclusion of the
negotiations was not set in stone in advance of the negotiations or during the
negotiations. ,he participants in the process must be allowed to *nd their own
conclusions. " was told that that argument would be devastated and set aside. "t is
unfortunate that that argument has not been addressed. "t cannot be addressed
because this %ouse knows that it is right. ,his %ouse knows that the participants
have to *nd their wa(2 the( cannot be told# lectured or dictated to on what is the best
wa(.
,his motion# which is well meaning# well intentioned and supported b( friends and
colleagues on all sides of the argument# would therefore do the wrong thing at the
wrong time# because it would be sa(ing# K%ere is the conclusion that the %ouse will
reach.L ,hat is wrong. As we have heard from other Members# more than />0 other
5arliaments and processes have said that that is the conclusion that the( will reach#
but it has not made a bit of diCerence. 8e must therefore step back and realise that
there is a better wa(.
,he other lesson that " want to draw from our e;perience of being involved in a peace
process is that we must not pour fuel on alread( burning Iames. ,o recognise the
state of 5alestine at this time# when signi*cant and strong elements in the 5alestinian
negotiating process do not even recognise "srael and would not allow that state to
e;ist# would be to make an alread( di!cult situation worse. Although no one here
claims to have the answers to the process# we must# as a rule# tread carefull(.
,he hon. Member for Birmingham# 9orth*eld (Dichard Burden) said that people want
to see light at the end of the tunnel. " agree with that. %owever# we do not want to
see Iames in the tunnel# because all we would get is more smoke.
<.>& pm
5he Parliamentar! %nder+Se(retar! o/ State /or 3oreign and Common.ealth
#6airs (Mr 5oias Ell.ood):
"t is an honour to participate in this debate# which reIects the %ouse at its best. "
have travelled the middle east for >0 (ears. " have written about it and served there
as an o!cer. " am now the Minister for the region. " am humbled b( the depth of
knowledge on both sides of the %ouse and b( the spirit in which the debate has taken
place.
" .oin other Members in congratulating the hon. Member for -asington ($rahame M.
Morris) on securing this debate and " welcome the contributions of hon. Members
from all parts of the %ouse. " am sorr( that important statements have curtailed the
length of the debate. Before responding to the speci*c points that have been raised# "
will brieI( set out the $overnment:s position on the middle east peace process and
the recognition of a 5alestinian state.
" will start b( addressing the terrible situation in $aFa# which " visited last week. " was
profoundl( shocked and saddened at the suCering of ordinar( $aFans. More than
/00#000 people have been made homeless b( the conIict# and 3&0#000 people
about a third of the populationhave no access to water. Eesterda(# " attended the
$aFa reconstruction conference in 6airo with the Minister of State# =epartment for
"nternational =evelopment# m( right hon. 1riend the Member for 9ew 1orest 8est (Mr
Swa(ne). "t was clear that the international communit( stands read( to support the
rebuilding of $aFa. " am pleased to sa( that the @J pledged U'0 million to kick+start
the recover( and help the $aFan people back on their feet. ,he @J has been one of
the largest donors to $aFa this summer. 8e have provided more than U/< million in
emergenc( assistance# which has helped to provide food# clean water# shelter and
medical assistance to those in the greatest need.
?et me be clearG we do not want to see a return to the status )uo. ,his is the third
time in si; (ears that conIict has broken out in $aFa and reconstruction has been
needed. ,o illustrate the problem# in '000# more than /&#000 trucks of e;ports left
$aFa. "n '0/># the *gure had dwindled to onl( '00 trucks. ,he @9 estimates that it
could take /O (ears to rebuild $aFa without ma.or change. "t sa(s that $aFa could
become unliveable b( '0'0. "f the underl(ing causes are not addressed# it risks
becoming an incubator for e;tremism in the region. At the same time# "srael has
faced an unacceptable barrage of rockets from %amas and other militant groups.
,hat is unsustainable. 8e all know that if the problems are left to fester# conIict
could break out at an( time. Bold political steps are therefore necessar( to stop the
c(cle of violence once and for all.
8e welcome the agreement between "srael# the 5alestinian Authorit( and the @9 to
assist in the reconstruction. ,hat must now be implemented. More needs to be done
as a priorit( and we urge the parties to make serious and substantive progress in the
talks in 6airo to ensure that the cease*re is durable. "t must address "srael:s securit(
concerns and ensure that the movement and access restrictions are lifted. ,here
must also be a clear economic plan. $aFa has huge economic potential and
signi*cant natural resources that need to be realised. ,here must be urgent repairs
and upgrades to the public utilities# including water# sewerage infrastructure and
power.
,he parties must work together to open the border crossings to goods and people to
allow greater connectivit( between $aFa and the west bank. " full( support the
announcement b( Baroness Ashton (esterda(# in which she said that the -@ is
anal(sing the feasibilit( of a maritime link that could open $aFa to -urope. "
discussed that issue with m( 5alestinian and "sraeli counterparts when " was in the
region last week.
"t is crucial that the 5alestinian Authorit( return to $aFa to provide services and
securit(. "n that regard last week:s 5alestinian 6abinet meeting# which took place in
$aFa for the *rst time# was a positive sign. ,he 5alestinians must also take steps to
address "srael:s legitimate securit( concerns. ,he world has shown that it is willing to
put the necessar( mone( on the table# and the parties must now demonstrate that
the( are read( to take the political steps necessar( to prevent conIict in $aFa.
%owever# even a more durable cease*re is no substitute for peace# and there must
be urgent progress towards a two+state solution that meets the aspirations of both
"sraelis and 5alestinians.
&erem! Cor!n:
" thank the Minister for what he has said so far. =uring his discussions# was there at
an( point a serious debate about the problem of the lives faced b( man( 5alestinian
refugees in camps in ?ebanon# S(ria# Hordan and other places7 ,he( too must surel(
be part of a long+term peace e)uation. ,he( have spent more than 40 (ears in those
camps# and it cannot go on for ever like that.
Mr Ell.ood:
" agree with the hon. $entleman. " had a number of bilaterals in 6airo# and " met the
?ebanese 1oreign Minister and we spoke about that issue. ,he hon. $entleman might
be aware that we are pouring in signi*cant =1"= and Ministr( of =efence funds to
support ?ebanon in that regard. "n 6airo (esterda( Secretar( Jerr( again rea!rmed
that the @nited States is full( committed to bringing the parties back to negotiations#
and the @J will continue to take a leading role in working closel( with international
partners to support @S eCorts. A .ust and lasting peace will re)uire leadership from all
sides. 1or "sraelis and 5alestinians that must mean a commitment to returning to
dialogue# and to avoiding all actions that undermine prospects for peace.
?et us be clearG "srael lives in a tough neighbourhood and faces multiple securit(
challenges. ,he British $overnment are staunch supporters of "srael:s right to
defence. "srael is a friend and we are proud to be pursuing a strong# bilateral
relationship# from trade to our commitment to growth in high+tech start+ups.
%owever# "srael:s settlement building makes it hard for its friends to make the case
that "srael is committed to peace.
Lad! -ermon ("orth $o.n) (Ind):
8ill the Minister enlighten the %ouse about what he perceives would be the
conse)uences should the motion be passed tonight7 8ould the conse)uences be
helpful at this time# would the( be neutral# or would the( be negative7 ,hat would be
helpful in guiding us to make the right decision in a controversial and important
debate and vote.
Mr Ell.ood:
" ask the hon. ?ad( to be patient so that " can complete m( speech and get to that
point. 8e have made our position clearG Britain defends the right to choose our
moment# which is appropriate for the peace process# when we make that bilateral
decision.
Deturning to "sraeli settlement building# last week " visited the -/ area of the west
bank and met members of the Bedouin communit( living there who face relocation
b( the "sraeli authorities. ,he( told me that the( had no wish to leave# and e;pressed
their fears of being forcibl( transferred to make wa( for the construction of "sraeli
settlements. Such a move would seriousl( threaten the possibilit( of a contiguous
5alestinian state# and according to the @9 would be contrar( to international
humanitarian law. "srael:s recent decision to advance settlement plan units in $ivat
%amatos will also have serious implications for the possibilit( of Herusalem being part
of a 5alestinian state. As the 1oreign Secretar( said on > ctober# "srael needs to
change course on that now. ,he 5alestinian Authorit( must also show leadership#
recommitting themselves to dialogue with "srael# and making progress on governance
and securit( for 5alestinians in $aFa as well as the west bank.
Mr Stra.:
,he words that the Minister and his ministerial colleagues# including the 5rime
Minister# have used against further "sraeli settlement building have been ver( robust.
8hat action do the British $overnment intend to take if those words are ignored7
Mr Ell.ood:
8e are in a critical position# and at the discussions in 6airo it was clear that there is a
huge eCort to recognise where we are in tr(ing to sort out a two+state solution. ,hat
has been recognised# and there is now a huge international eCort to bring all parties
to the table# which is where such issues need to be discussed. %aving said that# we
have made clear our concern about the developments# which must be considered
when the parties come together to consider a two+state solution.
Se'eral hon. Memers
rose
Mr Ell.ood:
" will make a little progress and then " will give wa(. ur commitment to that vision is
wh( the @J is a leading donor to the 5alestinian Authorit( and such a strong
supporter of their state+building eCorts. 8e are providing almost U>&0 million
between '0// and '0/& to build 5alestinian institutions# deliver essential services
and relieve the humanitarian situation. 8e commend the leadership of 5resident
Abbas and 5rime Minister %amdallah# whom " met last week# and their commitment
to securit( co+operation and institutional reform. =espite that commitment# however#
and the support of donors such as the @J# the aspirations of the 5alestinian people
cannot be full( realised until there is an end to the occupationa point that the right
hon. Member for Blackburn (Mr Straw) .ust madeand we believe that that will come
onl( through negotiations. ,hat is wh(# following the 6airo conference# the urgenc(
was recognised# and the @J hopes that a serious process can urgentl( resume. "t is
time to readdress these issues# and onl( an end to the occupation will ensure that
5alestinian statehood becomes a realit( on the ground. ,he @J will bilaterall(
recognise a 5alestinian state when we .udge that that can best help bring about
peace.
Sir Ed.ard Garnier:
" have no doubt that all m( hon. 1riend is sa(ing is entirel( true# but surel( it is a
matter of .udgment. 8e all want to see negotiations# and no doubt there is some
magic right time for those to go well. 8ould a vote tonight b( the %ouse for the
motion# as amended# provide a catal(st# even a nudge# for both parties to come
together and to do so more )uickl(7
Mr Ell.ood:
" believe the nudge we saw was in the announcements made in the 6airo conference
and the recognition of the huge amount of mone( that is now pouring in. " was ver(
moved b( a speech given b( Ban Ji+moon at the @9 $eneral Assembl( when he said#
K"s this what we do7 "s this who we are7 8e reconstruct2 it:s damaged. 8e
reconstruct2 it:s damaged. "s this the c(cle that we now endure7L 8hat was clear in
6airo is that that is unacceptable. ,here needs to be commitment to rebuilding# and
the parties need to come back to the table to discuss and work towards that two+
state solution. ,hat is what is on the agenda at the moment# and that is what we are
focusing on.
Mr 1inni(k:
8ill the hon. $entleman give wa(7
Mr Ell.ood:
" will give wa( a little later# but *rst " want to make progress and address some of the
speci*c points raised b( hon. Members. " apologise because limited time means that "
cannot address ever( contribution# but " will write to hon. Members if " am not able to
cover their views.
,he hon. Member for -asington ($rahame M. Morris)# who moved the motion# placed
in conte;t Britain:s historical role in the region. ?et me clarif(# however# that the
"nternational Monetar( 1und and the 8orld Bank have not said that the( recommend
statehood# but that the essential institutions are there. ne of the most powerful
speeches made toda( was b( m( right hon. 1riend the Member for 6ro(don South (Sir
Dichard ttawa(). "t takes some courage to speak in the manner he did# and the
%ouse is all the wiser for his contribution.
M( right hon. and learned 1riend the Member for Jensington (Sir Malcolm Difkind)
spoke about what practical bene*t voting for the motion will have. After all# we can
pla( this card onl( onceonce it is done# we cannot repeat it# so the timing of the
motion is critical. ,he hon. Member for ?iverpool# Diverside (Mrs -llman) spoke about
the important role of Hohn Jerr(# and the %ouse should pa( tribute to the hard work
and dedication he has pursued in tr(ing to bring parties to the table. 8e went a long
wa( back in April# and it is important that we pick up where we were at that point.
,he same point was made b( the hon. Member for Batle( and Spen (Mike 8ood).
M( right hon. 1riend the Member for Dutland and Melton (Sir Alan =uncan) described
this as the most ve;ed and sensitive issue. ,hat is true# and " pla( tribute to his work
as =1"= Minister in considering how oil and gas reserves in the $aFan territor( can be
harnessed. " found it ironic that all the countries at the 6airo conference were
contributing substantial funds# (et on $aFa territor( and oC the shore of $aFa there is
mineral wealth that could be harnessed. ,hat is one of the things that must be placed
on the agenda and it will be brought up with m( "sraeli counterparts.
M( hon. 1riend the Member for %ertsmere (Mr 6lappison) was the *rst to speak of the
role of %amas and the challenge of governance in $aFa. ,hat is the elephant in the
room# which needs to be addressed. ,he hon. Member for -dmonton (Mr ?ove) asked
how long we will have to wait for a solution. M( right hon. 1riend the Member for
1aversham and Mid Jent (Sir %ugh Dobertson) rightl( paid tribute to the hard work of
the 1oreign and 6ommonwealth !ce and of those who work in posts around the
world. ,he( do us a grand service and the whole %ouse pa(s tribute to their work.
,he hon. Member for 9orth Antrim ("an 5aisle() paid a moving tribute to his father. "
think the whole %ouse .oins him in that.
&onathan #sh.orth (Lei(ester South) (La):
n a point of order# Madam =eput( Speaker# there are man( Members who are keen
to speak in this debate and
Madam $eput! Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing):
rder. ,hat is not a point of order. M"nterruption.N "t is not a point of order. ,he %ouse
is well aware that man( Members wish to speak. ,he Minister and the pposition
1ront+Bench spokesman are well aware. " notice that the Minister is keeping his
remarks much shorter than Ministers normall( do and " am sure he will conclude
soon. 8e will not waste time on more points of order that are not points of order.
Mr Ell.ood:
,hank (ou# Madam =eput( Speaker. " have taken a number of interventions and "
thought that that was right. " will now move on to m( conclusion# which " am sure the
hon. $entleman will appreciate.
$un(an -ames (Chippenham) (L$):
8ill the Minister give wa(7
Mr Ell.ood:
" will not give wa(. " do not think it would be appropriate for me to do so.
,he challenges are clear. 8e must act urgentl( to help the people of $aFa to get back
on their feet and begin the hard work of reconstruction. ,o put an end to the
destructive status )uo there must be swift progress towards a durable cease*re that
addresses "srael:s securit( concerns and lifts the restrictions on $aFa. -ven a durable
cease*re can onl( be a temporar( measure. ,he international communit( must
redouble its eCorts to support a comprehensive peace agreement that delivers an
independent 5alestine alongside a safe and secure "srael. ,he @J will be with other
parties ever( step of the wa(. 8e will continue to push for progress towards peace
and lead the wa( in supporting 5alestinian state building and measures to address
"srael:s securit( concerns. ,he @J will recognise a 5alestinian state at a time most
helpful to the peace process# because a negotiated end to the occupation is the most
eCective wa( for 5alestinian aspirations of statehood to be met on the ground.
" recognise the strength of feeling on this issue among man( people in Britain. " am
glad that this debate has given me the opportunit( to set out the $overnment:s
position. nce again# " thank the hon. Member for -asington for securing the debate#
and " thank other hon. Members for their contributions.
Madam $eput! Speaker:
Before " call the shadow Minister# " should tell the %ouse that# as we have .ust
discussed# there are a great man( people waiting to speak# so " have to reduce the
time limit for Back+Bench speeches to four minutes.
<.&> pm
Ian Lu(as (1re7ham) (La):
" begin b( congratulating m( hon. 1riend the Member for -asington ($rahame M.
Morris) on securing this historicall( signi*cant debate. " will seek to limit m( remarks
and " hope that Members will forgive me if " do not refer to them b( name. " do#
however# want to refer b( name to the right hon. Members for Dutland and Melton
(Sir Alan =uncan) and for 1aversham and Mid Jent (Sir %ugh Dobertson). ,he( made
signi*cant interventions and " thank them for doing so.
,o clarif( the ?abour part(:s position# the motion will be supported b( the ?abour
part( because it reIects our long+standing support for the principle of recognition of
5alestinian statehood. ?abour will also support the manuscript amendment# because
it makes clear our support for recognition of 5alestinian statehood as a contribution
to securing a negotiated two+state solution. ?abour is clear that it is# of course# a
matter for an( $overnment to recognise another state at an( point of their choosing.
"t is a matter for this $overnment# .ust as the former 1oreign Secretar( the right hon.
Member for Dichmond (Eorks) (Mr %ague) made clear as long ago as '0//. ,he
Minister has .ust said that there now needs to be urgent progress towards peace.
,here now needs to be# to use his word# a catal(st. " urge the Minister and the
$overnment to listen to the tenor and seriousness of this debate# and to .udge their
own polic( on the views being e;pressed tonight.
,he timing and the mechanism to decide whether to recognise 5alestinian statehood
is a matter for this $overnment. "t will be decided b( ?abour in government if the
decision has not been made b( this $overnment before ?abour comes to power. 8e
have made it ver( clear that we will alwa(s work with partners multilaterall( to
advance the two+state solution agenda. 8e full( support two states living side b( side
in peace# recognised b( all their neighbours. 8e are clear that 5alestinian statehood
is not a gift to be given# but a right to be recognised. ,hat is wh(the hon. Member
for %endon (=r Cord) should heed thissince '0//# when the ?eader of the
pposition made ?abour polic( clear# ?abour has supported 5alestinian recognition at
the @nited 9ations. ,he weeks of bloodshed witnessed in $aFa this summer# and the
breakdown of meaningful negotiations in April this (ear# are a painful and stark
reminder of how distant and di!cult the prospect of a peaceful resolution to this
conIict remains.
" was in "srael and in 5alestine at the end of Hul( and the beginning of August# and
heard directl( from "sraelis and 5alestinians about their view of the position on the
ground. ne conversation with an "sraeli general sta(ed with me. %e said that the
conIict would end sooner or later# and that how man( die would depend on how
)uickl( resolution was reached. ,hat was true for $aFa then and it is true for the
wider middle east conIict now. @rgent steps need to be taken to stop people d(ing.
,he steps that need to be taken to resolve the conIict are political steps. ,hat is wh(
it was right for the ?eader of the pposition# in '0//# to instruct m( right hon. 1riend
the shadow 1oreign Secretar( to write to the 1oreign Secretar( to ask the @J
$overnment to support the 5alestinian bid for recognition at the @nited 9ations. ,hat
is wh( it was right for ?abour# in '0/'# to call on the @J $overnment to vote in favour
of 5alestine:s bid for enhanced observer status at the @nited 9ations $eneral
Assembl(# a vote on which this $overnment abstained.
" have never understood how# in the conte;t of a conIict in which so man( have died#
it can be wrong to use political steps and the @nited 9ations to make progress.
"ndeed# this principle has been widel( supported# as m( right hon. 1riend the Member
for Blackburn (Mr Straw) said earlier when referring to the road map in '00'+0>#
where
Kcreating an independent 5alestinian state with provisional borders and attributes of
sovereignt(# based on the new constitution# as a wa( station to a permanent status
settlementL
was endorsed b( 5resident Bush and 5rime Minister Sharon. ,he road map set out
that 5alestinian statehood was part of the solution. Since then# much progress has
been made. 8e heard from the hon. Member for %ertsmere (Mr 6lappison) that
5resident Abbas is a true partner for peace and that much progress has been made in
the west bank during that period. "t is therefore crucial# at this time when help is
needed# that 5resident Abbas receives support for the political path he has chosen.
8e need to support 5resident Abbas to follow the path of peace and not the path the
terrorists of %amas inIict on the people of "srael# something " have seen with m( own
e(es in Ashkelon and in Sderot.
8e should# as we stand toda(# support peaceful# political steps. ,his is wh( the
?abour part( will maintain its support for a two+state solution to the middle east
conIict b( supporting this motion. ?abour is clear that this conIict will be resolved
onl( through negotiations. %owever# after decades of diplomatic failure# there are
those on all sides who toda( )uestion whether we can actuall( achieve peace. ,his is
wh( ?abour believes that# amid the despair toda(# we need to take a dramatic step.
,he $overnment have rightl( stated that the goal of all diplomatic eCorts must be a
two+state solution brought about b( negotiations# but no negotiations are taking
place. %ow can the $overnment:s current position on 5alestinian recognition help
bring about resumed negotiations7
,he ?abour part( supported 5alestinian recognition at the @9 and we support the
principle of recognition toda(# because we believe it will strengthen the moderate
voices among the 5alestinians who want to pursue the path of politics# not the path
of violence. ?abour urges the $overnment to listen to the %ouse of 6ommonslisten
to the voices on the 6onservative Benches# the ?iberal =emocrat Benches# the
?abour Benches# all the Benchesand give 5alestinians what the( have as a rightG
statehood. ,his it not an alternative to negotiations2 it is a bridge for beginning them.
O pm
Mr Mike -an(o(k (Portsmouth South) (Ind):
"t is a pleasure to take part in this debate and " .oin other Members in congratulating
the hon. Member for -asington ($rahame M. Morris) on introducing this motion. ?ike
other Members# " was ver( disappointed at the Minister:s response# because he did
not sa( an(thing about what might be wrong with the motion2 he did not sa(
an(thing that would harm the interests of "srael2 and he did not actuall( sa( an(thing
that would bene*t the people of 5alestine. ,his motion and the amendment oCer that
light at the end of the tunnel.
8hen we speak to 5alestinianswhether 5resident Abbas here in 5arliament or
5alestinians on the street in the west bank or elsewhere in 5alestinewe see and
hear *rst hand how the voice from the @J 5arliament is ver( important to them. ,he
message that we send out tonight is a message of hope for themG that we in this
5arliament recognise the right of their struggle and their right of self+determination.
,hose who would oppose this motion# or who speak as if it would harm "srael# have
not put forward a single sustainable argument2 not one iota of what has been put
forward b( them would stand close e;amination.
8e have an opportunit( to sa( to the people of $aFa# who have had their homes
s(stematicall( bombed and destro(ed and where# in $aFa alone# something like U&
billion+worth of infrastructure damage has been done# that that has to be put right.
Mrs Ellman:
=oes the hon. $entleman accept that the reason for that dreadful bombing is
%amas:s launching of rockets on "sraeli civilians and the building of terror tunnels7
Mr -an(o(k:
" do not believe for one minute that the "sraelis: attitude and the sort of punishment
the( dished out was in an( wa( the right thing for them to do2 it was not in their best
interests and it certainl( was not in the best interests of the people of 5alestine. K,he
$atekeepersL# a K9ewsnightL special# has been mentioned. "n it# *ve of the past si;
heads of the top securit( agenc( in "srael sa( that successive 5rime Ministers had not
wanted to solve the problem with 5alestine# and *ve out of the si; sa( that that was a
mistake and that "srael had to change its polic(. ,hese were the people who were
leading the defence of "srael# but the( recogniseobviousl( far too late# because
the( did not do this when the( were in o!cethat something has to give in "srael.
?et us return to the initial point of this debate. "f we give this motion our blessing#
there is not a single thing that will harm "srael# but it will send a powerful message
which is cr(ing out to be heard for the people of 5alestine# whether the( are in the
refugee campswhere four generations have now livedor in $aFa# the west bank#
?ebanon# or wherever. ,he people of 5alestine have waited 4& (ears to get the .ustice
the( deserved. 8e did not listen thenG when we could have given a two+state solution
in :3O# we chose not to do it. 5eople made that biggest mistake.
$r &ulian Le.is:
" am sorr( to correct the hon. $entleman on an historical point# but m( understanding
is that the @9 did vote for a two+state solution and *ve Arab armies then invaded
"sraeli territor(# so it is not )uite as he suggests# " think.
Mr -an(o(k:
,he hon. $entleman will recollect that those *ve Arab states were seeking more of a
reassurance that their borders would also be safeguarded# so it was a two+edged
sword# " am afraid. 8e therefore have to be ver( careful when we talk about that
situation.
" want to end b( sa(ing# pleasefor goodness: sakelet us all send out a positive
message to the people of 5alestine and give them the hope and the light at the end
of the tunnel that the( deserve to see coming their wa(.
O.& pm
&ulie Elliott (Sunderland Central) (La):
" am ver( glad that m( constituenc( neighbour# m( hon. 1riend the Member for
-asington ($rahame M. Morris)# secured this debate in Backbench Business
6ommittee time# and " rise to speak in support of his motion and the manuscript
amendment of m( right hon. 1riend the Member for Blackburn (Mr Straw).
,his has been one of the most fascinating debates that " have had the privilege to
witness in this %ouse since becoming a Member. 1or me# the motion is ver( simple.
,here is no ambiguit(G all sides want a two+state solution that works and is
sustainable. ,hat can onl( be reached b( negotiationb( people talking to each
other. ,here is no other wa( to reach it. %owever# "srael was given statehood in /B&0
with no preconditions# and " believe 5alestine should be given the same.
1or negotiations to work# it is helpful to have as level a pla(ing *eld as possible and
to have as much e)ualit( as possible between the sides# but that simpl( is not the
case at present. As has alread( been said# after the Balfour declarationwhich was
not carried through entirel(we as a countr( have a bit of a moral obligation to give
our support.
,his (ear:s conIict in $aFa shows how une)ual the two sides are. ,here were some
/#34' civilians killed on the 5alestinian side and seven on the "sraeli side. All of those
are a personal disaster for the victims: families and are regrettable# but we can see
from the numbers the scale of the imbalance in this situation.
Roert -al/on (-arlo.) (Con):
8ill the hon. ?ad( give wa(7
&ulie Elliott:
9o# " am going to carr( on.
$iven the imbalance# 5alestinian statehood would not harm "srael in an( wa(# but it
would give some support to the 5alestinian people.
1or me# the issue is ver( straightforward and ver( simple and " am going to keep m(
comments brief and end on a personal stor(. " have a friend who came to Sunderland
m( cit(in the earl( :O0s to stud( at what was then the pol(technic and is now the
universit(. %e was born in $aFa and on his travel documents his nationalit( is given
as K5alestinianL# but his brother# who was born in precisel( the same place seven or
eight (ears later# had KstatelessL on his travel documents. 9o child should have that
on their travel documents2 it is wrong# it is immoral and it should stop. ,hat is wh(#
on a personal level# " will support the amendment and the motion. "t is the right and
the moral thing to do.
O.O pm
Mr Peter Lille! (-it(hin and -arpenden) (Con):
" will not discuss the rights and wrongs of the 5alestinian and "sraeli causes# about
which hon. Members have spoken with such passion and elo)uence# because " want
to focus on the narrow issue of recognitionG when it is appropriate and what its
conse)uences are.
Some countries grant recognition as a mark of approval of a regime and withhold it
as a mark of disapproval. thers grant recognition onl( on condition of receiving
reciprocal favours from the countr( concerned. 9either approach has traditionall(
been that of the British $overnment. 8e have alwa(s granted recognition to a
regime# however abhorrent# once it has established eCective control of the state
apparatus on the bulk of its territor(. ?ikewise# we withhold or withdraw recognition
from an( regime# however congenial# if it lacks# or loses# control over the bulk of the
state apparatus in its territor(. ,hus# whereas the @nited States refused to recognise
the communist regime in 6hina for man( (ears and continued to recognise ,aiwan as
the legitimate $overnment# Britain speedil( recognised the 5eople:s Depublic of
6hina once its power was clearl( established. " believe that we should stick to that
pragmatic approach# sub.ect to )uali*cations. 8e should recognise the 5alestinian
state# not as a mark of approval of its policies or disapproval of "sraeli policies# but
simpl( as a recognition of the realit(# .ust as we would do an(where else in the world.
,here are two possible ob.ections to our doing this. ,he *rst is that this is a )uestion
of recognising a state as well as a regime. 9ormall(# we recognise a state as an( dul(
constituted territor( established as a state with a long histor( or more recentl( b(
agreement with the previous authorities e;ercising sovereignt( in that territor(. 8e
did not recognise Jatanga or Biafra even though the breakawa( regime had
established control# but 5alestine is not a breakawa( regime. "t was recognised as a
separate entit( b( the inheritor of the previous sovereign authorit(# the ?eague of
9ations and then the $eneral Assembl( of the @nited 9ations.
&im 3it8patri(k (Poplar and Limehouse) (La):
" am interested that the right hon. $entleman is drawing a conclusion in favour of
recognition. =oes he think it signi*cant that he and the right hon. Members for Mid
Susse; (Sir 9icholas Soames)# for Dutland and Melton (Sir Alan =uncan) and for
6ro(don South (Sir Dichard ttawa()distinguished senior 6onservative Back
Benchers and former Ministershave arrived at the conclusion that recognition is the
wa( forward7 "s not this a signi*cant step7
Mr Lille!:
" am sure that it is e;tremel( signi*cant# as is an( contribution that " make.
M?aughter.N
,he second ob.ection is the one that has been raised b( m( right hon. and learned
1riend the Member for Jensington (Sir Malcolm Difkind)namel(# that the 5alestinian
state is not in de facto control of its territor( because of "sraeli occupation. %owever#
Britain has never accepted that militar( occupation e;tinguishes a countr(:s
statehood. 8e did not do so during the second world war# when we continued to
recognise the occupied countries in western -urope. 1or that reason# we should go
ahead with recognition.
8hat eCect would recognition have7 %ere# " fear that " must disappoint Members on
both sides of the debateG it would have ver( little impact indeed. ,he proponents and
opponents of recognition e;aggerate the impact that it would have. Alread(# />3
countries have recognised 5alestine and it has had no discernible eCect on either
advancing or hindering the peace process. Sadl(# we in this %ouse cling to the
delusion that the world hangs on our ever( word# but it is absurd to imagine that the
people who are prepared to *re rockets at civilian areas from 5alestine# or the people
in "srael who are prepared to incur international odium b( the brutal wa( in which
the( respond# will be moved one wa( or the other b( what we in this %ouse sa(
toda(. "t is time we as a 5arliament grew up and recognised that we have ver( little
control over what happens there. @ltimatel(# it will be the people on both sides who
will recognise the need to reach an accommodation. "n that important programme
the other night# we saw si; former heads of Shin Bet"srael:s state securit(
apparatusacknowledging the need to reach such an accommodation.
"n line with our traditional polic(# we should recognise the 5alestinian state as a
realit(. 8e would not be granting it an(thing2 we would simpl( be recognising a fact.
8e should make it clear that# in doing so# we were not e;pressing support for its
policies or repudiating the right of "srael to e;ist. 8e must also accept that change
will come about onl( as a result of those on the ground in "srael and 5alestine
realising that the( need
Madam $eput! Speaker ($ame $a.n Primarolo):
rder.
O./> pm
#nd! M($onald (Middlesrough) (La):
" congratulate m( hon. 1riend the Member for -asington ($rahame M. Morris) on
securing this important debate.
M( father served with the Arm( in 5alestine from /B3& to /B3O during the currenc( of
the British mandate. %e did not sa( much about it# but he did tell me that# at the end
of his tour of dut(# he had a chit for leave to spend a last night in Herusalem.
%owever# his comrade pleaded with him to let him have the chit as he wanted to see
a girl in town. %e had fallen in love with her and did not know when he might see her
again# so he was desperate. M( dad let him have his chit# but sadl( the vehicle that
took the soldiers into town that night was attacked b( terrorists and the seat that the
love+struck soldier sat in bore the brunt of the attack and he was killed outright. ,hat
could have been m( dad:s seat.
,here were other terrorist attackson trains and# famousl(# on the Jing =avid hotel.
Among the terrorists were Menachem Begin and EitFhak Shamir# both of whom went
on the hold the highest o!ce in the newl( formed state of "srael. ,he point " am
making is that committed individuals and groups who pursue self+determination
might at one time be deemed to be terrorists but then perceived as freedom *ghters
and# ultimatel(# statesmen. 8e need look no further than the .ourne( made b( the
great 9elson Mandela# as well as taking a glance across the water to the island of
"reland.
Ian Mearns (Gateshead) (La):
M( dad served in what was then 5alestine in the late /B>0s# before the outbreak of
the second world war. "n contrast to the other />3 countries that have recognised
5alestine# our recognition would be )uite diCerent because we were the protectorate.
8e were the power that held the mandate of protection over the area of 5alestine
that subse)uentl( became "srael and 5alestine.
#nd! M($onald:
" thank m( hon. 1riend for making that powerful point. 8e have strong historical links
to 5alestine and we bear certain responsibilities as a result. " believe that the world
will look at this 6hamber to see what the British 5arliament sa(s about these
important issues.
As the right hon. Member for Mid Susse; (Sir 9icholas Soames) said# the Balfour
declaration of 9ovember /B/< made it abundantl( clear that# while this countr(
would use its best endeavours to establish a national home for the Hewish people#
nothing would be done that might pre.udice the civil and religious rights of e;isting
non+Hewish communities in 5alestine. A national home for the Hewish people was of
course created# but it cannot# on an( reasonable interpretation# be said that the
interests of the non+ Hewish people have not been pre.udiced. 5alestinian people are
prisoners in their own land.
"t has been said on innumerable occasions that a 5alestinian state is not a gift but a
right# and " agree wholeheartedl( with that sentiment. 8hen such a right e;ists# it is
unacceptable that that right should be denied or that conditions should appl(. " note
that some people sa( that the state of 5alestine should be recognised onl( on the
conclusion of successful peace negotiations between the "sraeli $overnment and the
5alestinian Authorit(. "f that view were to hold swa(# the in.ustice would simpl(
continue for ever more. "t would be to put the cart before the horse and# worse still#
e;acerbate the situation. 6an we reall( sa( with an( sincerit( that Bin(amin
9etan(ahu will put his name to preconditions leading to the creation of the
5alestinian state that would ever be acceptable to the 5alestinian people7
8e are all agreed that the actions of %amas in launching missile attacks were
abhorrent# but what hope are we oCering to the 5alestinian people7 ?et us imagine
some coastal area of our own land being blockaded and starved# with bulldoFers
rolling in and destro(ing the properties and farms of innocent people. 8hat would we
e;pect those people to do7 Simpl( lie down and accept such brutalit(7 9o2 an(
people in those circumstances would *ght with whatever the( could la( their hands
on to protect themselves and *ght back. ,hat is a basic human instinct# and (ou can
bet (our bottom dollar that the British would do that.
Ees# the death of an "sraeli soldier or civilian is a traged( ever( time it happens# but
dropping bombs on innocent people in $aFa# killing thousands and anne;ing more
and more land is not the answer2 nor is it in an( wa( .usti*ed. =o we reall( think that
an( of those actions will bring about peace7 ne da( a 5alestinian state will e;ist and
with it there will be the hope of peace and prosperit( for its people. -ver( da( that
the establishment of the 5alestinian state is postponed merel( guarantees the
continuation of the conIict# with more innocent people losing their lives. 8e owe it to
all those who have lost their lives on both sides# and those whose lives are constantl(
at risk# to bring this traged( to an end b( recognising the 5alestinian state without
further dela(.
O./B pm
#ndre. Stephenson (Pendle) (Con):
" congratulate the hon. Member for -asington ($rahame M. Morris) on securing the
debate. " rise to support the motion to recognise the state of 5alestine. " also support
the amendment tabled in the name of the right hon. Member for Blackburn (Mr
Straw)# to which " am a signator(.
" am a member of the Britain+5alestine all+part( parliamentar( group# and " have
taken an active interest in the troubles in that part of the world since m( election.
,oda(# a number of 5alestinian children were in schools across m( constituenc(. ,his
was facilitated b( the 5endle for 5alestine ,winning $roup# and " was pleased to pla(
a small role in helping facilitate that when the group encountered visa issues. " am
sorr( to miss their visit to 5endle# but " am sure the( will understand wh( " am in
8estminster toda(.
" last visited the west bank in Ma( '0/'# when " met the @nited 9ations Delief and
8orks Agenc(# Breaking the Silence# =efence for 6hildren "nternational# the "sraeli
"nformation 6entre for %uman Dights# the "sraeli 6ommittee Against %ouse
=emolitions# the =epartment for "nternational =evelopment# the British consul
general# Sir Vincent 1ean# and man( others. " had not visited the region before# so the
delegation gave me a much better insight into the region# the conIict and associated
issues. 8e visited the =heisheh refugee camp and al+8ala.a# a village aCected b(
both the separation barrier and demolition issues. "t was also a privilege to meet the
then 5rime Minister of the 5alestinian Authorit(# Salam 1a((ad# in Damallah to discuss
the future of the peace process# the hunger strikes and a range of other issues.
Although m( visit to the region ma( have been brief# it left a lasting impression.
1ollowing m( visit# " met 1oreign !ce Ministers to raise m( concerns about the
"sraeli occupation and what was happening in this often misunderstood#
misrepresented part of the world. ,he same (ear# '0/'# " also publicl( con*rmed m(
support for 5alestine:s upgraded diplomatic status at the @9 to that of non+member
observer state# and " was pleased to see that approved b( the @9 $eneral Assembl(.
Since then# " have attended lots of events and debates looking at diCerent aspects of
the conIict.
8h( do " support toda(:s motion and the amendment7 "t is simpl( because " believe
we need to break the current impasse and underline our commitment to an e)uitable
two+state solution. ,he recent conIict in $aFa was horri*c and left 5alestinians and
"sraelis# who re.ect violence# feeling that the( had no hope. British aid mone( and the
generosit( of the British public to help rebuild $aFa have been incredible# and the(
will help in the short+termbut what about the long+term7 ,he cease*re has
suspended the killing but it has not resolved an(thing.
As several right hon. and hon. Members have said during this debate# m( right hon.
1riend the Member for Dichmond (Eorks) (Mr %ague)# speaking as 1oreign Secretar( in
'0//# described the $overnment:s polic( as followsG
K8e reserve the right to recognise a 5alestinian state bilaterall( at a moment of our
choosing and when it can best help bring about peace.LM!cial Deport# B
9ovember '0//2 Vol. &>&# c. 'B0.N
"# and man( others across this %ouse# believe that time has come. 8e need to
support the vast ma.orit( of 5alestinians who believe in peaceful coe;istence with
"srael# and face down the violent minorit( b( showing them that non+violence and a
willingness to negotiate can help get them somewhere. As Sir Vincent 1ean# our
former consul general to the region# whom " met in Herusalem and here in
8estminster# put it this week#
K"sraelis and 5alestinians deserve to live in safet(. Both deserve statehood. ,he
status )uo is un.ust and thus indefensible.L
" could not put it better m(self# so " am pleased to support toda(:s motion.
O.'> pm
Mr #nd! Slaughter (-ammersmith) (La):
" congratulate all those who have made the case for the recognition of 5alestine this
evening# particularl( m( fellow o!cers in the Britain+5alestine all+part( group and in
?abour 1riends of 5alestine V the Middle -ast# including the mover of the motion# m(
hon. 1riend the Member for -asington ($rahame M. Morris)# and m( hon. 1riend the
Member for Birmingham# 9orth*eld (Dichard Burden)# who has campaigned on this
issue for decades rather than (ears. 8e have heard good speeches from Members on
both sides of the %ouse# particularl( the right hon. Members for Dutland and Melton
(Sir Alan =uncan) and for Mid Susse; (Sir 9icholas Soames).
,his is not .ust a debate within this %ouseG tens of thousands of people marched
against the invasion of $aFa2 we have seen mobilisations through the trade union
movement and through the 5alestine solidarit( campaign2 and we have heard that
distinguished diplomatsSir Vincent 1ean# our most recent consul in Herusalem has
been mentionedhave written powerfull( in this cause recentl(. ?et us not forget the
Hewish and "sraeli groups# particularl( the "sraeli civil societ( groups such as Breaking
the Silence# 5eace 9ow and the "sraeli 6ommittee Against %ouse =emolitions# which#
under a great deal of pressure from their $overnment now# continue to campaign.
But above all it is the British people who have taken up this cause# with more than
&0#000 e+mails sent to M5s over the past two or three weeks.
" think that the British people have been on the same sort of the .ourne( as the right
hon. Member for 6ro(don South (Sir Dichard ttawa() describedit is certainl( true
of the ?abour movementfrom being ver( s(mpathetic to "srael as a countr( that
was tr(ing to achieve democrac( and was embattled# to seeing it now as a bull( and
a regional superpower. ,hat is not something " sa( with an( pleasure# but since the
triumph of militar( Rionism and the ?ikud+run $overnments we have seen a new
barbarism in that countr(. 8e have seen it in the ?ebanon invasion# in the attack on
the Mavi Marmara and the Iotilla# and# above all# in the three attacks on $aFa#
peration 5rotective -dge# peration 6ast ?ead
0ate Green (Stret/ord and %rmston) (La):
=oes m( hon. 1riend agree that the message sent from the British 5arliament tonight
will also be noted b( the American $overnment and the American people# and that
although our inIuence ma( not be strong directl( on "srael# our relationship with
America enables us to use its inIuence with "srael also to conve( that sense of
horror7
Mr Slaughter:
" agree with m( hon. 1riend2 " think this will be e;actl( as the vote in S(ria was last
(ear.
As " was sa(ing# peration 5rotective -dge# peration 6ast ?ead and peration 5illar
of =efence have all been# despite how the names sound# attacks b( a ma.or militar(
power on a civilian communit(. " have heard two views in opposition to the motion.
,he *rst is from people who have no intention of ever recognising the state of
5alestineunfortunatel( the( include the leadership of "srael at the moment. ,his
view used to come .ust from people such as Ariel Sharon# but now it comes from
9aftali Bennett# the Minister with responsibilit( for the econom(# Avigdor ?ieberman#
the 1oreign Minister# and the 5rime Minister himself# Bin(amin 9etan(ahu. Bennett
has said# K" will do ever(thing in m( power to make sure the( never get a state.L
,hose views are articulated publicl( in "srael now because people are emboldened b(
their own actions and b( the international communit(:s failure to do an(thing about
them.
8ho can defend settlement buildingthe colonisation of another countr(7 8e are
talking about 400#000 "sraeli settlers planted on 5alestinian soil. " disagree
fundamentall( with the right hon. and learned Member for Jensington (Sir Malcolm
Difkind)# who said that $aFa was no longer under occupation. "t is under occupation2
the life is s)ueeFed out of it dail( from land# sea and air. An(bod( who has visited the
west bank and not come back thinking that it is an apartheid s(stem has their e(es
closed. ,he dail( indignities suCered b( the 5alestinian people there would make
man( people rise in rebellion# and what we have there is a strong movement for
peace# led b( 5resident Abbas.
Ms 0aren Bu(k (1estminster "orth) (La):
M( hon. 1riend and " went to $aFa together in '00B# in the immediate aftermath of
peration 6ast ?ead. =oes he agree that# in addition to the staggering level of
destruction wreaked on $aFa then# which has now tragicall( been repeated# one
abiding stor( is the frustration and rage that the people feel about the peace process
no longer being a realistic option and about how something needs to be done to
break the log.am7 " hope that we are starting to do that tonight.
Mr Slaughter:
"t is indeed# but who can doubt that the 5alestinians think like that when the( are
sub.ect to the arbitrar( use of e;treme violence against civilians# not .ust (earl(# but
often on a weekl( basis.
,he second voice " have heard against this motion comes from people who sa( the(
agree with it but place ever( obstacle in its wa(. " also heard that in the speech from
the right hon. and learned Member for Jensington# when he talked about the
5alestinians not (et being read( to have their own state. "f that were true" do not
believe it isit would be a direct result of "sraeli polic(. Hust after peration 6ast
?ead# " stood in $aFa in the ruins of the 5alestinian 5arliament# which was
deliberatel( bombed. -ver( organ of civil societ(# of the econom( and of democrac(
in that countr( had been s(stematicall( destro(ed b( the "sraelis# and the( have .ust
done it again. -ver( concession given b( the 5alestinians is taken and then more
concessions are demanded# and the remorseless colonisation continues. %ow long is
this going to continue7
,he motion is a positive step# but m( constituents wish to see more. ,he( would like
us to stop suppl(ing arms to the "sraelis when those arms are being used for the
occupation and to kill people in $aFa. ,he( would like us to stop importing goods
from illegal settlementsillegal under international law. ,he( cannot understand
wh(# if the settlements are illegal# the goods should not be illegal as well. ,he motion
does not ask for an( of that. "t was supposed to be consensual motion that simpl(
proposes giving the same rights to the 5alestinians as we e;tend to the "sraelis. ,his
is about e)uit(.
1inall(# this countr( has a special dut( here. "t is eas( to tr( to duck that dut(. 8e are
the authors of the Balfour declaration and we were the occup(ing power. An(bod(
who goes to the middle east knows" am sure that the Minister would agree with me
on thisthat the views taken b( the British $overnment and the British people run
powerfull( in the region. 8e should set an e;ample. Ees# />& countries have
recognised 5alestine and (es# we are behind the curve in this matter# but it is not too
late for us to set an e;ample to -urope and the rest of the world and show that we
believe in e)ualit( and fairness in international statecraft as much as we believe in
our own countr(. ,hat is all that this motion is asking for tonight. "t is not asking for
special privilege or treatment. "t is not a provocative act. "t is simpl( sa(ingG la( the
basis for peace and e)ualit( in the middle east and resolve this issue and much else
will follow.
O.'B pm
Roert -al/on (-arlo.) (Con):
,he issue of 5alestinian statehood is one that goes be(ond simpl( recognising one
$overnment alongside another. 8hen considering the recognition of a $overnment#
one should ask who the $overnment are# who the( represent and what the territor(
is.
?et us start b( considering the authorit( that this motion seeks to see recognised. "t
is alwa(s ambiguous to talk about a 5alestinian $overnment when the 5alestinians do
not form a unanimous bod(. ,his summer# we witnessed the terrible war between
"srael and one of the manifestations of so+called 5alestinian power# %amas. ,he
e;plicit aim of that terrorist organisation# as stated in its own manifesto# is to
eradicate "srael from the map and to *ght Hewsa racist goal if ever there was one.
,he onl( diCerence between %amas and "S"S is one of degree.
Grahame M. Morris:
" am sorr( to interrupt the hon. $entleman:s Iow. Ma( " refer him back to the motion#
which is about recognising not the $overnment# but the state7 ,here is a substantial
diCerence between the two. 8e recognise man( $overnments whom we do not
tolerate. All we are recognising here is the need to confer statehood.
Roert -al/on:
n those grounds# would the hon. $entleman recognise "S"?7 " think not.
8hen we look at the facts# it will be clear to this 5arliament that recognising a
5alestinian state in the status )uo without a peace agreement would mean
acknowledging a societ( that respects onl( the rule of force.
,he *rst condition to the recognition of a 5alestinian state needs to be that it is based
on full( democratic and peaceful principles. As the 5alestinian Authorit( is read( to
co+operate with %amas and to rule alongside it# we cannot be honest and democratic
in recognising the 5alestinian state.
" agree that there should be a 5alestinian state. "n fact# not man( realise that there is
alread( a 5alestinian state called Hordan. "t was created b( the British in /B'/ and
was originall( called ,rans.ordan. After the /B3O+3B war against the newl( created
state of "srael# the Hordanian monarch# Abdullah# even called himself the Jing of
Hordan and 5alestine# as his countr( controlled the west bank.
,he vast ma.orit( of Arabs currentl( in Hordan are in fact 5alestinians ruled b( a
monarch from the %ashemite minorit(. Before the /B4< si;+da( war when "srael
defeated the Arab invasion and took control of the west bank and $aFa# which had
been under the arm of -g(pt# there had never been demands from 5alestinians in the
disputed territories for a second 5alestinian state# as the( were under Hordanian rule.
"n toda(:s motion to recognise a second 5alestinian state# the hon. Member for
-asington ($rahame M. Morris) overlooks the fact that the 5alestinians in the west
bank and the 5alestinians in $aFa are ruled b( entirel( diCerent entitiesthe more
moderate 1atah and the terrorist organisation %amas. "f we are not careful# we could
end up with three 5alestinian states# or to be precise one state and two stateletsG one
controlled b( the %ashemite Jingdom in Hordan# the eastern borders of which are now
threatened b( "S"S2 one controlled b( 1atah in the west bank2 and one controlled b(
%amas in $aFa.
Sir Ed.ard Leigh:
" do not understand m( hon. 1riend:s point about Hordan. %e is not suggesting that
because hundreds of thousands of 5alestinians Ied to Hordan# often in fear of their
lives# and now live there that the( have their state and therefore ever(thing is oka(7
Roert -al/on:
@nder the Balfour declaration# it was alwa(s envisaged that "srael would have a small
part one side of the river and the Arabs would have the other part. ,here are man(
second and third generation 5alestinians living there toda(.
8e have heard a lot of criticism of the state of "srael toda(# but where is the same
outrage about the massacre of thousands of 5alestinians in the S(rian cit( of Earmouk
at the hands of Assad:s regime7 ?ast (ear# " voted for intervention because of Assad:s
chemical weapons and most hon. Members voted against it. 8hat about the ongoing
e;clusion of and discrimination against 5alestinians in ?ebanon# where women are
not allowed to be married to a refugee for fear of integration7
,he hon. Member for Sunderland 6entral (Hulie -lliott) said that onl( a few "sraelis
were killed whereas more than /#000 5alestinians were killed# but if the "sraelis had
not had an "ron =ome s(stem# hundreds of thousands of "sraelis would have been
killed b( the hundreds of missiles that %amas *red into the state of "srael. Should we
not condemn %amas for *ring the //#000 rockets# using 5alestinians# their own
citiFens# as human shields# and wasting millions of dollars of humanitarian aid to
build tunnels from $aFa into "srael to send terrorists and suicide bombers across the
border7
As " said# " support a 5alestinian state and a free middle east# free from terror and
free from %amas# al+Paeda and "S"S. An enlightened middle east that has real libert(
something " thought that m( hon. 1riend the Member for $ainsborough (Sir -dward
?eigh) believed inwith the rule of law# genuine elections# propert( rights# religious
tolerance# e)ualit( for women and the re.ection of terrorism. " therefore support an
enlightened 5alestinian state after negotiation alongside a secure and democratic
"srael# free from %amas# free from "slamic Hihad and living in peaceful co+e;istence.
O.>4 pm
Sarah Champion (Rotherham) (La):
,his is an issue with which " have been involved since m( teens. ,he fact that we are
discussing it toda( feels historic and " am proud to have the opportunit( to be in the
6hamber. " thank m( hon. 1riend the Member for -asington ($rahame M. Morris) for
securing the debate.
Before " begin# " send m( thoughts to the families in 5alestine and "srael that have
been aWicted b( the appalling conIict this summer in $aFa. "t is# however# our dut(
to remember the vast number of 5alestinian civilians who have died in the struggle
not .ust this (ear but in the man( (ears since the conIict began. ,he( are people:s
mothers# sons# daughters and brothers and the( continue to be treated with little
regard for the value of human life. "t is with those 5alestinian civilians in mind that "
rise toda( to speak in favour of the motion.
9ow is the time to move forward from the horrors seen in $aFa to tr( to secure
peace. ,he onl( wa( we can help to restore peacea real# lasting peaceis b(
negotiating a two+state solution and b( recognising in doing so the right of the
5alestinian people to self+determination. ,he arguments for doing so are compelling.
,he 8orld Bank and the "nternational Monetar( 1und both argue that 5alestine is
read( for statehood. 5alestine has man( of the attributes of a functioning stateG a
$overnment# people who identif( as its population and the capacit( to enter into
relationships with other states. Some have argued toda( that 5alestine is lacking as it
does not have a de*ned territor(# but recognition of a 5alestinian state does not and
should not hang on the *nal agreement of 5alestinian borders.
,he $overnment made the case for the recognition of a 5alestinian state in '0/'. ,he
right hon. Member for Dichmond (Eorks) (Mr %ague) told the %ouseG
K8e want to see a 5alestinian state and look forward to the da( when its people can
en.o( the same rights and dignit( as those of an( other nation.L
%e went on to add that
Kwe support the right to a 5alestinian state.LM!cial Deport# 'O 9ovember '0/'2
Vol. &&3# c. ''O+'>/.N
"f the $overnment have alread( recognised the right to a 5alestinian state# the right
of the 5alestinian people to determine the parameters of that state logicall( follows.
,he 5alestinian people have been arguing for self+determination for more than &0
(ears and that is a re)uest that we cannot and should not ignore. More than /00
states have alread( recognised 5alestine# .oined b( Sweden onl( two weeks ago. "t is
now our turn. "t is our moral dut( to treat 5alestinians as the people the( seek to be
treated as. ,hat should not be conditional on negotiations# the views of "srael or
those of an( other state. "t should be conditional onl( on the views of the 5alestinian
people.
,here are some parallels with the recent referendum in Scotland. n polling da(# we
did not ask the people of -ngland# 8ales or 9orthern "reland whether the( wish
Scotland to sta(. 8e accepted that it was the right of the Scottish people to decide.
,he same principle should be applied to 5alestine. ,his is not an issue for the "sraelis
to decide# even if the( want to. "t is not an issue for negotiations. "t is an issue for the
5alestinian people and the 5alestinian people alone. "srael should have no veto over
the 5alestinian people:s right to self+determination. ,his is a right that is not
contingent on the views of other states.
,here is a practical issue here as wellG the recognition of the state of 5alestine would
mirror our historic recognition of "srael. "t has been &3 (ears since we recognised
"srael. 8hen we did so# we did not ask the permission of the 5alestinians or# indeed#
an( of the surrounding states. ,he recognition of 5alestine should have happened a
long time ago. 1or over 40 (ears# 5alestinians have not been granted the same
recognition as other peoples# either in their rights or in having their voices heard on
the international stage. "t is time now that we formall( recognise this recognition b(
acknowledging their right to self+determination and b( supporting them to e;ist as a
state. nl( b( doing so can we move forward to secure a lasting peace for the people
of 5alestine and of "srael.
O.30 pm
Bo Ste.art (Be(kenham) (Con):
"n the past# m( problem with full( supporting 5alestinian statehood has been the fact
that %amasdesignated a terrorist organisation b( the @J# as well as the @nited
States# the -uropean @nion and other countries such as Australiais so closel( linked
with the $overnment there. " remain concerned b( the indiscriminate rocket attacks
into "srael from $aFa# as well as the support given to other terrorist activities.
Article &< of the $eneva convention# which " studied when " was the commander in
Bosnia# is the ke(. "t states that constant care must be taken to spare civilians from
being hurt. "t stresses that those who plan or decide on an( attack must do
ever(thing feasible to verif( that the ob.ectives attacked are not close to civilians. "t
is absolutel( clear that the militar( wing of %amas# b( its rocket attacks on "sraeli
territor( and its association with west bank terrorism# such as the abduction and
murder of three "sraeli teenagers in August this (ear# pa(s scant attention to that
fundamental humanitarian law.
" have criticised# too# "sraeli militar( actions in south ?ebanon# the west bank and
$aFa for )uite a few (earseven before " was a Member. "n m( view# the "sraeli
defence force# whatever the reason or militar( re)uirement# has breached article &<
on occasion# too. After all# it is indisputable that large numbers of civilians have been
killed as a result of "=1 operations in $aFa this summer.
Mrs #nne Main (St #lans) (Con):
" hope that m( hon. 1riend shares m( view that one can condemn %amas and the
atrocities that it commits while still recognising that 5alestine should have the right
to be an independent state.
Bo Ste.art:
" entirel( endorse what m( hon. 1riend sa(s.
" have had to deal with terrorist organisations of one form or other# whether the
5rovisional "DA# the "rish 9ational ?iberation Arm(# 5rotestant e;tremist groups or
even terrorist gangs in the Balkans. ,oo man( soldiers under m( command have been
killed b( fanatics for me not to be ver( serious about this problem. " loathe the wa(
that terrorists act and their politics of guns# e;plosives and rockets.
9ow if %amas was to renounce violence and stop attacking innocent people in "srael#
which in fairness# for a while# it did a few (ears ago# " would be much less ve;ed. ?ike
so man( of us in the 6hamber# " have ver( mi;ed feelings about the motion. 8e all
want to see a state called 5alestine# but can " support a $overnment linked to
terrorism7 "n theor(# " should not# but in practice can "7 After all# " can think of several
well established states that support terrorismawa( from their own territor(# of
coursewhich our $overnment alread( full( recognise and# indeed# support# despite
this knowledge. So " wonder# wh( should we not support the 5alestinians# too7
=espite m( aversion to the terrorism practised b( elements of %amas# " have decided
that it is time that this 5arliament should full( endorse the move to 5alestinian
statehood. " will be voting for the motion in the hope that it brings closer a peaceful
settlement in the wonderful ?evant.
O.33 pm
Ste.art -osie ($undee East) (S"P):
"t is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Beckenham (Bob Stewart). Man( of us
will remember the great hope and e;pectation felt when the slo accords were *nall(
signed in /BB> in 8ashington# but " wonder if man( can recall what the accords were
supposed to deliverG the withdrawal of "sraeli forces from parts of $aFa and the west
bank2 the a!rmation of a 5alestinian right to self+government within those areas
through# in the *rst instance# the 5alestinian Authorit(2 and an interim period during
which permanent status negotiations would commence# supposedl( no later than
/BB4. ,hereafter# "srael was to hand over power in stages. Ma.or issues such as
Herusalem# 5alestinian refugees# "sraeli settlements# securit( and borders were to be
decided during the permanent status negotiations.
8e must remember that the two groups also signed letters of mutual recognition. ,he
"sraeli $overnment recognised the 5alestine ?iberation rganisation as the legitimate
representative of the 5alestinian people2 the 5? recognised the right of the state of
"srael to e;ist# and renounced terrorism# other violence# and the desire for the
destruction of the "sraeli state. ,here were man( other associated agreements. ,here
was a .oint 5alestinian+"sraeli 6o+ordination and 6o+operation 6ommittee for securit(#
and a similar continuing committee for economic progress. ,he parties even signed
an environmental protection plan. ,here was a follow+up in /BB&# slo ""# to highlight
the progress made since the slo accords were signed.
8hat of the last '0 (ears7 ,here has been a separation wall or barrier# which
encroaches deepl( on the west bank2 that is where O&T of the wall is located. ,he
wall de facto anne;es 34T of the west bank# eCectivel( creating ghettos or militar(
Fones. ,he air# sea and land blockade of $aFa# which has eCectivel( imprisoned more
than /.& million $aFans# has been criticised b( the @9 Secretar(+$eneral# Ban Ji+
moon. 8e have seen peration 6ast ?ead and# more recentl(# peration 5rotective
-dge from the "sraelis2 no doubt the .usti*cation is the rocket attacks b( %amas#
which should not have taken place. ,here were 3#000 deaths# mainl( 5alestinian# in
those two actions alone# as well as spectacular loss of and damage to propert(#
industr( and agriculture. f course# "srael continues to build settlements on the west
bank. ,his is the histor( that our constituents will be familiar with# but perhaps we
should brieI( look back further.
"n /B3<# the @9 Special 6ommittee on 5alestine said that there should be partition
into a Hewish and an Arab state. "n the same (ear# the @9 agreed resolution /O/#
which took eCect in Ma( /B3O. n // Ma( /B3B# "srael was recognised b( the @9#
and it was eCectivel( recognised b( the @J two da(s later# formal recognition coming
the following (ear. "f we are serious about a two+state solution# 4& (ears is too long to
wait for recognition of 5alestine. -ven if onl( to provide parit( of dignit(the basic
dignit( of having one:s nation state recognisedwe should recognise it. ,he time for
e;cuses is over2 we should recognise 5alestine toda(.
O.3O pm
#ndre. Gri9ths (Burton) (Con):
" am grateful for the opportunit( to take part in this important debate. " have learned
a great deal from listening to it. ,ime is short# and " do not want to take up too much
of it# or repeat what others have said. "t is remarkable that there has been a shift in
tone# and in the concerns of the %ouse# during the debate. ,hat shift should worr(
the $overnment of "srael# because it is clearl( losing the moral high ground when it
comes to the people in $aFa and the 5alestinian issue. " have become increasingl(
concerned about the wa( "srael is operating since seeing on m( television screen
pictures of the recent crisis. "t is impossible not to feel the suCering and hopelessness
of the people of $aFa. "t is onl( right that we should have this debate and discuss the
issue. " would not be a friend of "srael if " did not speak out when " saw it doing the
wrong thing# heading in the wrong direction and causing the unnecessar( deaths of
too man( 5alestinians. "t is for that reason that " take part in toda(:s debate.
" recognise that "srael has a right to defend itself. " recognise that it is completel(
unacceptable for %amas missiles to rain down in their thousands over "srael# and it is
absolutel( right that the British $overnment support "srael:s right to defend itself. But
it cannot be right that in response to the %amas rockets# "srael can unilaterall( cause
death and destruction in 5alestine that is not proportionate to the threat. ,hat is the
important word here. ,he response must be proportionate.
According to the @9# during this summer:s conIict# a total of '#/>/ 5alestinians were
killed. f those# at least /#3<> were civilians(oung# innocent civilians# in man(
cases. n the "srael side# 44 "sraeli defence force soldiers were killed# and *ve "sraeli
civilians. " do not believe that that response is proportionate. "srael has lost the moral
high ground in the wa( it acted.
8e should demand the same standards of "srael as we do of an( democratic state.
Hust this weekend# we saw the Australian Super %ornet pilots pull awa( when the(
were hunting down "S"? *ghters because the( were concerned about the loss of life of
innocent civilians. "t is onl( right that a sophisticated# well+funded arm(# such as that
of "srael
Ri(hard 3uller (Bed/ord) (Con):
=oes m( hon. 1riend also agree that in an open# democratic societ( such as ours#
with modern technolog(# the visibilit( of actions re)uires politicians to change our
view too7 5eople in societies around the world see such disproportionalit(# and the(
want their leaders to take action to make change.
#ndre. Gri9ths:
,hat is e;actl( right# and that is wh( we have this debate toda(. "t is impossible not to
want to speak out and act when we see such suCering .
Some of the acts committed b( "srael were clearl( unacceptable. 8h( was it
necessar( to blow up $aFa:s onl( power station# leaving alread( stretched hospitals
to rel( on generators7 8h( was it necessar( to bomb hospitals and schools# when# as
we saw# the threat of loss of life to "sraeli civilians was small in comparison7 B(
adding to the suCering of the $aFan people# the "sraeli $overnment have lost the
support of the %ouse# and it should cause them great concern.
"t is important that moderates in the debate such as me should speak out if we are
turning against support for "srael. "t is right that we should e;press our concerns. "
recognise the concerns that have been raised b( some in the %ouse about 5alestine:s
abilit( to govern as a state# and its abilit( to have the mechanisms and the
government in place to accept statehood# but it is a challenge to us to help them
achieve it. 8e must redouble our eCorts to help the moderate# peaceful 5alestinian
people in their desire and eCorts to achieve statehood. " am grateful to have had the
opportunit( to take part in this debate.
O.&> pm
L!n Bro.n (1est -am) (La):
ver the past weeks m( in+bo; has been Iooded with hundreds of letters from m(
constituents. ,heir strength of feeling is undeniable# their arguments are heartfelt#
and their conviction is deep+seatedand for good reason. " share those arguments
and that conviction.
f the thousands of letters and e+mails " have received# there is one from Mia
,homas# e;tracts from which " would like to read toda(.
K" am a '/ (ear old medical student and " have .ust returned from & weeks in
Damallah in the 8est Bank. " am feeling increasingl( helpless and frustrated# as ever(
da( the death count of innocent 5alestinians grows higher and there seems so little
we can do about it and our $overnment will not act decisivel(.
B( contrast with $aFa# Damallah is ver( safe. "t is in Area A# so in theor( it is
completel( 5alestinian+run and governed. "n realit(# even in the heart of 5alestine# it
is still an occupied territor( and violence erupts at checkpoints with scar( regularit(.
1rom where " was sta(ing (ou could see HerusalemDamallah is onl( /B km awa( as
the crow Iies# but the .ourne( there takes an hour because 5alestinian buses are onl(
allowed to use certain roads and then (ou have to pass through a checkpoint# where
ever(one:s "= cardsXpassports are checked at gunpoint# before changing on to an
"sraeli bus to carr( on the .ourne(. ,his sort of thing isn:t particularl( harmful to one:s
health and is viewed .ust as a hassle# but it also creates this feeling of being
completel( caged and unable to move.
As a foreigner# " was visiting cities within the 8est Bank that local friends hadn:t been
to# not because of lack of funds or curiosit( but because people are afraid of getting
stuck outside their cit( as checkpoints can be closed at an( point. ,he occupation has
limited people:s movements ph(sicall(# but it also massivel( limits people mentall( in
what the( perceive the( can and cannot doY
"n a village further north near 9ablus " met the ma(or of the village# who was a
wonderful man. %e was in a wheel chair because as a (oung goat herder he was shot
in the spine b( "sraeli soldiers from the militar( camp that looms over the village. %e
now runs the village and has an absolute rule of no protesting or *ghting with the
"sraeli settlement nearb( because# as he said# he Qdoesn:t want an(one else
5alestinian or "sraelito lose the abilit( to walk:. %e sa(s .ust e;isting as a village is
resistance. "n the last (ear the "sraelis have demolished > houses in the village# and
as the( tr( and rebuild them (ou can see how hard life is when .ust living and farming
(our land is an act of de*ance.L
Seema Malhotra (3eltham and -eston) (La*Co+op):
M( hon. 1riend is making a powerful speech. %undreds of constituents have also
written to me on this matter# and it was discussed b( the %ounslow+Damallah
,winning Association last 1rida( night. =oes she agree that a downside of our not
supporting 5alestinian statehood toda( could be that it will give succour to those who
do not want to see a political settlement7
L!n Bro.n:
" agree entirel( with m( hon. 1riend.
Mia concluded her letter with the followingG
K":m so A9$DE about what:s going on in $aFa. Most people are# " think# which is wh(
":m confused as to wh( it:s being allowed to continue. "f this c(cle of hate and
violence is ever going to end# it has to start now with an end to killingof
5alestinians and "sraelis.L
Ms ,homas is clearl( a brave woman. She came back impassioned# disillusioned and
angr(. ,hat anger and disillusionment was not .ust about the conIict she had
witnessed2 it was about her frustration that those of us in this %ouse were not giving
her a voice. ,oda( " want to give her a voice# in the same wa( that " believe we must
give 5alestinians a voice.
"ia Gri9th (Llanelli) (La):
=oes m( hon. 1riend agree that @J recognition of 5alestine as a state would give a
tremendous boost to the moderates in a state of 5alestine and signi*cantl(
strengthen their voice in the international communit(7
L!n Bro.n:
" totall( and utterl( agree.
"t is time to recognise a 5alestinian state# a right the( have long deserved# and use
that recognition as a path to a wider process of negotiationtwo e)ual states living
side b( side in peace and securit( and sharing in prosperit(. 8e cannot stand here
toda(# sa( that we believe in that goal of a two+state solution and then stand b( and
refuse to recognise one of the states. " encourage the %ouse to take this opportunit(
and support the motion.
O.&O pm
Roert &enri(k ("e.ark) (Con):
" have to declare an interest# as " am married to an "sraeli"sraeli+bornwoman and
those who are married to a strong "sraeli woman will know who is boss in our
household. 8e have heard a wide range of moving and passionate contributions this
evening. "n the interests of time# " will not rehearse all that has been said# but " think
that there is much common groundG we believe that the 5alestinian people have the
inalienable right to self+determination and that the "sraeli people have the
un)uestionable right to live in peace and securit(# with all Arab and Muslim countries
recognising and respecting the state of "srael. 8e regard both peoples as e)ual in
dignit( and rights and we wish the @nited Jingdom to remain at the forefront of
international eCorts to bring about an end to the conIict.
Bo Ste.art:
n that point# in area 6 there certainl( are not e)ual rights in the occupied territories.
5alestinians are under militar( law# while "sraelis are under "sraeli civil law. ,here
have not been man( prosecutions of "sraelis in area 6.
Roert &enri(k:
" take the powerful point that m( hon. 1riend has made.
,he )uestion before the %ouse tonight is not whether we wish to see a 5alestinian
state as part of a two+state solution or whether we wish to consider ourselves# or be
perceived b( others be(ond the %ouse# as strong supporters of a 5alestinian state. "t
is whether in passing this motion toda( we would increase the prospect of a lasting
settlement# reduce the obstacles to it and increase this countr(:s abilit(modest as
it ma( beto inIuence that process positivel(# not diminish it.
" have listened to the debate this evening and the debate that has surrounded it# but
" have not heard the case put convincingl(. nl( a handful of Members have
answered the )uestion directl(# notabl( the right hon. Member for Blackburn (Mr
Straw). ther Members have spoken of a gesture# a s(mbol or a small nudge. " do not
)uestion the intentions of the hon. Member for -asington ($rahame M. Morris)# but "
fear that he is deceiving himself if he trul( believes that passing the motion will
breathe new life into the peace process.
$eie #rahams (4ldham East and Saddle.orth) (La):
,he hon. $entleman sa(s that he is looking for evidence that recognising 5alestine as
a state in its own right will make a diCerence. ,he @J Anglican and 6atholic 6hurches
believe that. 1urthermore# a former British consul+general to Herusalem has said that
we need to support moderate "sraelis and 5alestinians# and that recognising 5alestine
is the nudge that will help in that direction.
Roert &enri(k:
" hear the hon. ?ad(:s comments and hope that she is correct. 8e# of course# will be
onl( the />0+somethingth countr( to have signed up to recognition and none of the
previous nations has achieved a change.
5assing the motion will certainl( antagonise and weaken to some e;tent our
relationship with "srael and "sraelisa relationship that# for all "srael:s manifest faults
and frailties# " value and the %ouse should value in a dangerous world. "n a peace
process# we do not show solidarit( to one b( antagonising and alienating the other#
diminishing our relativel( limited inIuence on events.
" do not sa( that the case has been convincingl( disproved either. "n the short term#
passing the motion will not make peaceful settlement more likel(2 it ma( not have
an( impact at all. ,he long+term conse)uences of our recognising 5alestine at this
time are unclear and an(one:s guess# even given the knowledgeable and informed
comments that we have heard this evening. @nintended conse)uences abound in this
region.
&erem! Cor!n:
Some />& nations have alread( recognised 5alestine. ,he( obviousl( thought about
that before the( did it. ,he( are happ( with what the( have done and believe that it
gives a recognised right to a people who have been denied one. Should we not .ust
.oin them7
Roert &enri(k:
" am putting the argument that " want a well thought out strateg( to end the conIict.
" do not believe that this is the time for gestures. " hope hon. Members forgive the
naivet( of the second newest Member of the %ouse" welcome the newest one to
her placebut " believe that this is a serious countr( and that we should pursue a
serious foreign polic(# based not on gestures# however well intentioned# but on our
best eCorts to address the unending )uest for securit( and peace in the middle east.
,hat applies in "ra)# where our decision not to address "S"S in S(ria is not as serious a
position as we could or perhaps should be taking. " believe that that also applies in
respect of this motion.
" appreciate the powerful urge to leave this 6hamber contented and able to face our
electorates having done something. " am not alone in having received hundreds of e+
mails and letters urging me to support this motion. " appreciate the urge to respond
to the horrors of the summer in $aFa and the continued# impossibl( frustrating
impasse. %owever# if we believe in peace# we have to do what most advances it# and
" do not believe that passing this motion is that. ,he British $overnment should use
what inIuence the( have once again to urge 5rime Minister 9etan(ahu to sit down
and negotiate# with no preconceptions# a realistic peace based on a two+state
solution# and to urge 5resident Abbas to accept the oCer. M( priorit( is to get the
5alestinians a viable state rather than make a modest gesture here or have a
momentar( victor( in the @nited 9ations that will raise e;pectations but do little in
the long term to further the interests of peace.
B.& pm
&onathan #sh.orth (Lei(ester South) (La):
" meant no discourtes( to the Minister earlier2 " was simpl( aware that colleagues
were an;ious to make their contributions# and that is wh( mine will be brief. " speak
in support of the motion in the name of m( hon. 1riend the Member for -asington
($rahame M. Morris) and of the amendment tabled b( m( right hon. 1riend the
Member for Blackburn (Mr Straw).
,his %ouse has a dut( to support 5alestinian statehood. ,he 5alestinian claim to
statehood is not in the gift of a neighbourit is an inalienable right of the
5alestinians# and tonight we should speak up on their behalf. As the right hon.
Member for Dutland and Melton (Sir Alan =uncan) said in a superb# elo)uent speech#
the other half of the Balfour commitment places on us a further obligation and dut(
to support the 5alestinians tonight.
-ver( speaker has spoken in favour of a two+state solution2 ever(one on both sides of
this %ouse is passionate about a two+state solution. %owever# " fear that con*dence is
draining awa( from the idea of whether a two+state solution is possible. "s it an(
wonder that con*dence in a two+state solution is draining awa( when the "sraelis
push ahead with illegal settlements in the west bank7 "s it an( wonder that
con*dence is draining awa( when Bedouin Arabs in the -/ area live in fear of being
moved on# and are not allowed to build proper schools for their children and so are
forced to build them out of rec(cled t(res7 "s it an( wonder that con*dence is
draining awa( when those same Arabs put up swings for their children# and because
the( are denied the relevant permit from the authorities# the "sraeli authorities come
and take down the swings that the children pla( on7 "s it an( wonder that con*dence
is draining awa( when we see a conIict in $aFa that leads to //0#000 displaced
5alestinians and the destruction of '' schools7
,here are times when this %ouse has to send a messagewhen this %ouse has to
speak. " believe that the will of the British people is now to support 5alestinian
statehood. Man( have )uestioned what is the practical purpose of supporting this
motion2 well# " ask what is the practical purpose of opposing it. "f we oppose the
motion# this %ouse will be sending a message that we endorse the status )uo# and "
do not believe that that is the will of the British people.
B.O pm
Sir Ed.ard Leigh (Gainsorough) (Con):
8e are going to be told when we vote tonight that we are being naive and indulging
in gestures# but sometimes one has to be naive in e;pressing one:s hopes for a better
world and to be prepared to make gestures# even if our power is ver( limited. "
suppose that an "sraeli living near $aFa will think that we are naive when missiles are
raining down on them from %amas. " have nothing but contempt for %amas# which "
view as a kind of 9aFi organisation. " have nothing but respect and support for the
state of "srael. " think that all of us are ver( philo+Semitic. 8e understand the horrors
that the Hewish people have undergone and their desire for securit( and peace.
%owever# m( viewpointm( strong support for "sraelstarted to change when "
talked to Abba -ban# a former "sraeli 1oreign Minister and a ver( *ne gentleman. "
was thinking of him onl( (esterda( when " saw that he was an old bo( of the school
where m( son is at the moment. %e said in ver( powerful terms to me in his o!ce in
Herusalem# K?ook# there is absolutel( no wa( in which we can possibl( run or control
the west bank. ,here are far too man( 5alestinians. 8e have to come to a settlement
with the 5alestinians and recognise their right to self+determination.L ,hat was a
former "sraeli 1oreign Minister.
M( other =amascus moment came when " was standing at the Bethlehem checkpoint
and saw the appalling humiliation heaped on 5alestinian people. " spoke to a nurse at
a hospital " visited as part of a charit( " ran. She lived in Bethlehem# .ust a few miles
from Herusalem. "t was .ust a short walk awa(# but she was never able to go to the
cit( without enormous di!culties. Bethlehem# of all places# should be a beacon of
hope.
" know we will be accused of making a gesture toda( and " understand the
$overnment:s position# but the( should listen to the voice of this %ouse. Virtuall(
ever(bod( who has spokennot .ust lefties waving placards in ,rafalgar s)uare# but
virtuall( ever( 6onservative M5has said that now is the time to recognise the
.ustice of the 5alestinians: case.
" am not speaking in anti+"sraeli terms" am proud to be a friend of that statebut
the( have to open their hearts. ,he( have to start rela;ing controls in and out of
$aFa. " know about all the problems with terrorists and suicide bombers# but the(
have to start rela;ing controls at the Bethlehem checkpoint " was at and the( have to
stop the settlements. ,here has to be some wa( forward. 8e have to recognise#
however naive this ma( sound# that we are part of a common humanit(# whether we
are 6hristian# Hew or Arab. 8hen we vote tonightand " will vote for the motionwe
will be making a gesture in favour of that common humanit(# and we should be proud
of that.
B.// pm
Mark $urkan (3o!le) (S$LP):
"t is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for $ainsborough (Sir -dward ?eigh)# who#
like other Members# touched on the human realities of people whose lives are
aWicted in this conIict. ,he )uestion for this %ouse isG where do we stand on the
basic# core )uestion that constantl( runs through this problem7
-ver( time there is violence and ever( time the attempts at a peace process fail# fall
into a lull and are followed b( more violencewhether it is from %amas or the
e;cessive eCorts of the "sraeli defence forces# as we have seen this summerpeople
ask what the western world is doing about it. 8here does the international
communit( stand when human rights are sacri*ced again and again# and what is its
will when international law is violated again and again7 f course# we hear from the
=ispatch Bo; and elsewhere that the "sraeli $overnment are told not to be
disproportionate and warned against occupations# and (et the situation continues.
5eople are increasingl( fed up with this screensaver politics# where shapes are
thrown# images pro.ected and impressions generated# but nothing real goes on in
relation to the substantive issue. 5eople in our constituencies *nd it frustrating# but
the people for whom it must be most frustrating are those moderate people in the
middle east# including those in "srael who know that their securit( will never come
from drenching people in $aFa with bombs# and those in 5alestine who know that
their peace# rights and liberation will not come through lobbing rockets into "srael.
,he( want a peace process and the( know that at the heart of that peace process
there has to be a two+state solution# and that two+state solution has a better chance
of happening if there is at least a semblance of a two+state process. 8hen there is no
two+state process# we are wasting our time talking about a two+state solution.
,he Minister told us toda(# once again# that the British $overnment will recognise the
state of 5alestine at a time when it is most bene*cial to the peace process# but then
he went on to sa( that a negotiated end of occupation is the most eCective wa( of
having the 5alestinian aspiration for statehood realised on the ground. "s he telling us
that the British $overnment will move on recognising the state of 5alestine onl( when
there is a negotiated end to the occupation# whenever that is7 "f he is# that is no
argument against the motion# and nobod( could accept it as a reason for voting
against the motion or the amendment.
Mrs Main:
=oes the hon. $entleman share m( suspicion that we will not have a vote tonight7 "t
looks suspiciousl( as though there is consensus. "f we do not have a vote# the %ouse
will not speak with the grand voice in the wa( he hopes.
Mark $urkan:
,hat ma( well be# and it ma( add to people:s frustrations. 8e will see whether it
happens. 8e want to Iush out a proper declaration# because there should be no
obfuscation. ,here is a clear choice. ne of the beauties of the motion tabled b( m(
hon. 1riend the Member for -asington ($rahame M. Morris) is that it is clearfor the
purposes of providing absolute clarit(# there is the amendment tabled b( m( right
hon. 1riend the Member for Blackburn (Mr Straw)and the issues have been well
distilled in a ver( good debate.
A couple of attempts have been made to cloud some of the issues# including b( the
hon. Member for 9orth Antrim ("an 5aisle(). %e tried to suggest that the e;perience
of the 9orthern "reland peace process somehow means that we should not recognise
the state of 5alestine now# but leave ever(bod( to sort ever(thing out and then
recognise it. ,he truth is that he and his part( opposed the peace process throughout
and did so shrill(. ,he( said that the sk( would fall in. ,he( opposed American
involvement. ,he( opposed what the British and "rish $overnments did to create the
framework for a solution# and the( opposed building a solution based on three sets of
relationshipsinstitutions in 9orthern "reland# institutions in "reland and institutions
between "reland and Britain.
,he point is that people outside a conIict sometimes have to help to create some of
the givens in a process. "n the give and take that we e;pect in a negotiated process#
particularl( in a historic conIict# it is not in the parties: gift to do all the giving2 that is
where responsible international input can create some givens and new realities.
Mike Gapes (Il/ord South) (La*Co+op):
" pa( tribute to the hon. $entleman for his role in the 9orthern "reland process. =oes
he agree that the involvement of not onl( the @nited States but of the -uropean
@nion in the events of /BB<# /BBO and /BBB was crucial in facilitating agreement7
Mark $urkan:
Absolutel(# and such involvement predated that period. 5eople feared that it was .ust
a gesture that might somehow lead to a dangerous outcome. "n fact# the la(ers of
understanding# initiative and input from the international communit( over several
(ears helped to condition the conte;t of the peace process and to give people a
sense of realit( about our problem and the absolute and unavoidable re)uirements of
a solution. ,hat was done in wa(s that made people comfortable with those
re)uirements# because the( did not have the burden of making concessions or
compromises themselves# but could take them as things that were alread( givens in
the process.
,hat is wh( the important step from the international communit( in doing more to
recognise the state of 5alestine is the creation of a sense that the process is a more
e)ual. 8ill recognition create a solution7 9o. 8ill detailed negotiations have to
happen7 Absolutel(. 5eople will have the huge task of tr(ing to work out a solution# to
work with the solution and to work with each other within the solution# but one thing
the international communit( can do is to sa(# K8e are not going to endorse
an(bod(:s e;cesses b( retailing their e;cuses.L ,hat is wh( we should not endorse
the violence of "srael b( subscribing to its veto on the ver( process in the ver( basic
)uestion before the %ouse tonight.
B./O pm
Martin -or.ood (Cheltenham) (L$):
"t is an honour to follow such an elo)uent speech b( the hon. Member for 1o(le (Mark
=urkan). " hope to *nd .ust a fraction of the elo)uence and sensitivit( of m(
distinguished predecessor =aniel ?ipson# who was M5 for 6heltenham during the
horrors of the second world war. %e was also ma(or of 6heltenham# and president of
the 6heltenham s(nagogue. %e said as long ago as /B34 that
Kthe solution " want to see is a .ust solutiona solution which shall be .ust to both
Hews and Arabs. " do not want a one+sided solutionL.M!cial Deport# '/ 1ebruar(
/B342 Vol. 3/B# c. /><3.N
"t is in recognition of the one+sided nature of the various status )uos that have
prevailed ever since that our part( *nall( voted last week to support recognition of
5alestinian statehood alongside "srael. " ver( much sense that the %ouse will take the
historic decision to do e;actl( the same tonight. f course# recent events in $aFa and
the continued# determined pursuit of illegal settlement building b( the 9etan(ahu
$overnment must inIuence us# but there is a deeper reason to support the motion#
especiall( as crises escalate across the region.
Stephen 5imms (East -am) (La):
" am grateful to the hon. $entleman for referring to illegal settlement building. =oes
he agree that the proliferation of illegal settlements is one of the biggest threats to
the viabilit( and possibilit( of a two+state solution7
Martin -or.ood:
" agree with the right hon. $entleman. %e makes a valid point. " will come back to the
message that we need to send to the $overnment who are responsible for that.
,he deeper point to which " was referring was that if we are to tell Arabs across the
region to re.ect e;tremism# rockets# bombs and massacres that are deliberatel(
aimed at killing defenceless civilians# we must also do more to support the moderate#
democratic# pluralist leaders# such as Mahmoud Abbas# who have painstakingl(
pursued the diplomatic path towards peace and self+determination. "n answer to the
hon. Member for 9ewark (Dobert Henrick)# if the onl( practical outcome of passing the
motion is to strengthen the hand of Mahmoud Abbas against e;tremism and
intransigence# however imperceptibl(# we should do it. "f we can tell the "ra)i
$overnment of 9ouri al+Maliki that it is not enough to be electedeven to be elected
and face an e;istential threatbut that $overnments must also be inclusive and
demonstrate a commitment to peace# we have to deliver the same message# loud
and clear# to the $overnment of Bin(amin 9etan(ahu.
,o those who suggest that it is wrong to recognise a new state whose borders have
not been *nall( determined# " sa( that this %ouse did e;actl( that in /B&0. "n case
Members have an( doubt# " refer them to column //>O of %ansard on '< April /B&0#
when Jenneth Eounger# the Minister of State in the Attlee $overnment# announcedG
K%is Ma.est(:s $overnment have also decided to accord de .ure recognition to the
State of "srael# sub.ect to e;planations on two pointsY1irst# that %is Ma.est(:s
$overnment are unable to recognise the sovereignt( of "srael over that part of
Herusalem which she occupies# though# pending a *nal determination of the status of
the area# the( recognise that "srael e;ercises de facto authorit( in it. Secondl(# that
%is Ma.est(:s $overnment cannot regard the present boundaries between "srael# and
-g(pt# Hordan# S(ria and the ?ebanon as constituting the de*nitive frontiers of "srael#
as these boundaries were laid down in the Armistice Agreements concluded severall(
between "srael and each of these States# and are sub.ect to an( modi*cations which
ma( be agreed upon under the terms of those Agreements# or of an( *nal
settlements which ma( replace them.LM!cial Deport# '< April /B&02 Vol. 3<3# c.
//>O+//>B.N
8e have been waiting for those *nal settlementsindeed# the middle east has been
waiting for those *nal settlementsfor 40 (ears and more. 8e have seen
occupations b( Hordan and then b( "srael. 8e have seen wars and uprisings# but the
5alestinian territories are closer in practice to statehood now than the( have been at
an( other time in that entire period. "f we are to reward the diplomatic path to peace#
the time has come to recognise the state of 5alestine# as we did the state of "srael all
those (ears ago.
8e should .oin the >&0 "sraelis who toda( wrote an open letter to m( noble 1riend
?ord Alderdiceformer Members of the Jnesset# former Ministers# former
$overnment o!cials# former winners of the "srael priFe and the 9obel priFe# a former
Attorne(+$eneral# artists# pla(wrights and soldierswho saidG
K8e# "sraelis who worr( and care for the well+being of the state of "srael# believe that
the long+term e;istence and securit( of "srael depends on the long+term e;istence
and securit( of a 5alestinian state.L
8e should support them and we should support the motion tonight.
:.;< pm
Sandra 4sorne (#!r) Carri(k and Cumno(k) (La): " am grateful for the
opportunit( to contribute to this debate# having visited "srael# the west bank and
$aFa on numerous occasions. "t is great to see such a consensus developing as the
debate goes on.
8e all like to believe that we are in touch with the e;pectations and aspirations of the
people we represent. Mr 9orman Jirk of the 9ew Realand ?abour part( got it
absolutel( right when he said that people
Kdon:t ask for muchG someone to love# somewhere to live# somewhere to work and
something to hope for.L
9ew Realanders are not uni)ue in wanting those things. 5eople the world over are
looking for those things# including the people of 5alestine and "srael. ,he( have
people to love in abundance. ,he problem for the
=< 4(t ;>=? : Column =;>
5alestinians is that# too often# the( lose those the( love# including their children. And
how man( "sraeli families have lost members who have died in the "sraeli armed
forces7 ,he people of $aFa are left homeless when their houses are destro(ed or
severel( damaged b( "sraeli bombings. "n area 6 of the west bank# there are home
demolitions and land seiFures# and settlements are built on 5alestinian land. A house
is not a home if it has to be vacated at regular intervals in response to alarms
signalling rocket attacks and the need to take shelter.
@nemplo(ment is astronomical in 5alestine# especiall( among (oung 5alestinian
people. 8hat do the( have to hope for7 5eace# and a 5alestinian state living side b(
side with "srael# which has alread( been recognised as a state with no recognised
borders. ,he truth is that the( now have little hope# trust or faith in a two+state
solution in the face of ever increasing settlements# the failure of the latest rounds of
talksin spite of the eCorts of Secretar( of State Jerr(and the failure of the @S and
-@ to put proportionate pressure on "srael to demonstrate real commitment to the
peace process.
Bo Ste.art: 8hen " was in Bosnia# a person said to me that unless politics sorted
out the Balkans# histor( would take care of it. "n this case# unless the $overnment of
"srael get real in understanding that the( have to live with the 5alestinians# and that
somehow a solution has to be found# histor( will take care of it because one da( the
Arabs will be so powerful that the( will invade and that will be the end of "srael. 5ra(
$od that does not happenlet us *nd a solution.
Sandra 4sorne: " agree with the hon. $entleman# but m( point is that hope is
running out for the 5alestinian people. 8hat is the impediment to the @J recognising
5alestine as a state# and what do />& other countries know that we do not7 "s it that
we have some special role in negotiations that would preclude recognition from the
@J# or must we slavishl( follow @S polic(7 9either argument is credible or moral.
Surel( we have even more responsibilit( towards the 5alestinians because of our
histor(.
,he 5alestinians who remain committed to pursuing a peaceful path to a solution
have asked that we recognise their right to e;ist b( formall( recognising 5alestine as
a state. "t is for them# not us# to .udge when that should be done. " sa( that we should
agreeno ifs# no butsto statehood for the 5alestinians# and " will be supporting the
motion tonight.
:.;@ pm
Crispin Blunt (Reigate) (Con): As the chief cheerleader of K$et real# @nited
JingdomL about our place in the world# " sa( to m( right hon. 1riend the Member for
%itchin and %arpenden (Mr ?ille()# and perhaps to m( hon. 1riend the Member for
9ewark (Dobert Henrick) and others who have )uestioned the importance of this
debate# that having had media bids from 1rance# ,urke(# al+HaFeera# 6hannel 3 and
the BB6 8orld Service in connection with this eveningunknown for me" must sa(
to the %ouse that people are listening to the debate# and in the ccupied 5alestinian
,erritories the( will be listening ver( attentivel( because of our histor(.
" am immensel( proud to have m( name on tonight:s motion after that of the hon.
Member for -asington ($rahame M. Morris)# and " also support the amendment
=< 4(t ;>=? : Column =;=
that was so well tabled b( m( right hon. 1riend the Member for Dutland and Melton
(Sir Alan =uncan)# and others# which makes the purpose of the motion clearer.
" have been involved with this issue for an awfull( long time. ,went( (ears ago "
accompanied m( right hon. and learned 1riend the Member for Jensington (Sir
Malcolm Difkind) when he was the *rst British =efence Secretar( to visit "srael# where
he went to deliver the Balfour lecture. 8e have been reminded on more than one
occasion this evening of the second part of the Balfour declaration that has not been
delivered. "t was a rare period of hope for the "srael+5alestine issue at the time.
EitFhak Dabin was 5rime Minister# the slo accords had been signed# (et alread( the
re.ectionists were at work. ,here was a bus bomb in "srael when we were there# and
tragicall( a few months later EitFhak Dabin was assassinated b( a Hewish re.ectionist
of the slo accords. -ven in /BB4# " recall m( right hon. and learned 1riend as 1oreign
Secretar( summoning the "sraeli ambassador to give him a lecture about the
settlements that were beginning to be constructed. ,hat was before the deadline on
the slo accords# which were supposed to deliver the *nal settlement arrangements
b( /BBO.
&erem! Cor!n: =oes not the hon. $entleman think it is also important to make
some reference to the problems facing 5alestinian refugees in camps and in the
=iaspora7 ,he( should not be left out of this e)uation and our recognition will help to
bring their cause to the fore.
Crispin Blunt: ,he hon. $entleman is absolutel( right. ,he right of return will have
to be dealt with at some point during the negotiations. "n the course of the debate "
was delighted to hear the contribution of m( right hon. 1riend the Member for
6ro(don South (Sir Dichard ttawa() and see the scales begin to drop from his e(es#
with the latest land grab b( the state of "srael. " was slightl( surprised b( his
characterisation of the si;+da( war as an eCort to destro( "srael. "t was a brilliant
"sraeli feat of arms to dissipate what appeared to be a coming threat to "srael# but it
certainl( was not a response to an attack on "srael.
$r &ulian Le.is: M( hon. 1riend predicted that he would provoke me to intervene
and he has succeeded in that aim. " think the la(ing of mines across the straits of
,iran could .ust conceivabl( be described as an act of war.
Crispin Blunt: " will let the law(ers and m( hon. 1riend come to their own conclusion
on that.
M( last visit to "srael was with a collection of colleagues from this %ouse to again pla(
cricket for the parliamentar( cricket team. " note that the chairman of the "sraeli
cricket board who entertained us so magni*centl(he is a Hew from South Africa who
is now an "sraeli citiFensaid that in his view "srael had begun to lose its moral and
legal authorit( from /B4<. Since /B4<# we have to understand and consider "srael:s
approach to the negotiations and the realities that have been created on the ground.
" am afraid that in recent (ears it has become clearer and clearer that "sraeli
politicians have avoided the opportunit( to deliver a settlement. As the realities on
the ground have changed# so it has become
=< 4(t ;>=? : Column =;;
more di!cult for "sraeli leaders to deliver a settlement. ,he 300#000 settlers in the
occupied territories form the most enormous political problem for an( "sraeli leader to
have to address.
Roert -al/on: 8ill m( hon. 1riend give wa(7
Crispin Blunt: " cannot. " am out of time.
"srael now has the e;istence of the Arab peace plan. "t has the oCer of full recognition
and peace from its Arab neighbours. ,he 5alestinian negotiating position# in the
words of Saeb -rekat# is nothingG the 5alestinians have nothing to give in the
negotiations. ,he one thing that we can give them b( this vote this evening is some
moral and legal authorit( for their position. -ven if it is onl( a small amount of moral
and legal authorit(# it can begin to help the 5alestinian moderates face down those
who think violence against "srael is an intelligent course of action. Violence has# of
course# been an utter and complete disaster for the 5alestinian cause. "srael
responds# as we have seen in $aFa# with disproportionate force" use that term
advisedl(. ,he e;planation for "sraeli action simpl( does not stand the test. ,he "sraeli
$overnment# faced with the political problem it has in bringing a settlement# has all
too often not sought to *nd the ground on which to deliver that settlement. B( this
vote tonight# we can give the 5alestinians# who have had an appalling deal from
histor(# a little bit of moral and legal authorit(.
:.<< pm
Ms $iane #ott (-a(kne! "orth and Stoke "e.ington) (La): " congratulate
m( hon. 1riend the Member for -asington ($rahame M. Morris) on tabling this ver(
important motion. " observe that earlier this evening the hon. Member for %endon (=r
Cord) said that the motion did not matter# that we were .ust Back Benchers and that
it did not come from the $overnment. " sa( to him that " am surprised he takes being
a Member of 5arliament so lightl(. " also sa( to him that no $overnment can long
withstand the settled will of both sides of the %ouse of 6ommons.
8hen we have these debates# there is sometimes a tendenc( to impl( that being
against an( polic( of a particular "sraeli $overnment at a point in time makes a
person anti+"srael# anti+Hewish and even an anti+Semite. ?et me sa( thisG " represent
%ackne(# one of the historical centres of the Hewish communit( in this countr(. 8e
had the oldest s(nagogue in the countr( in Brenthouse road# and there is an
impressive roll+call of illustrious persons of Hewish origin who came out of %ackne(G
Moses Monte*ore# 9athan Ma(er Dothschild# Hack 6ohen# Alan Sugar and %arold
5inter. " think that is one of the *nest roll+calls in the countr(# and " deprecate the
suggestion that .ust because somebod( disagrees with the "sraeli $overnment at an(
point# that makes them anti+"sraeli. f course " support the "sraeli people and of
course " support the right of "srael to e;ist# and " believe that that is mainstream
public opinion. But it is also mainstream public opinion that something must be done
to move the peace process forward# because the peace process is eCectivel( stalled#
and it is also mainstream public opinion that the public were horri*ed b( what the(
sawthe sights and the killingin $aFa over the summer# and " think the British
public will be ver( disappointed if we do not have a decisive vote on these matters
toda(.
=< 4(t ;>=? : Column =;<
Mark -endri(k (Preston) (La*Co+op): "t is ver( eas( to call an(one who opposes
the views of the "sraeli $overnment an anti+Semite. =oes m( hon. 1riend believe that
building a wall and separation barrier on 5alestinian land and building settlements
that now house some 300#000 settlers is an( wa( forward and gives the international
communit( an( con*dence that "srael is willing to go through an( sort of peace
process7 =oes she also agree that this vote toda( is going to send a message to the
"sraeli $overnment that this 5arliament and this countr( feel ver( strongl( about their
attitude towards 5alestine7
Ms #ott: " entirel( agree about both the walls and the continuing proliferation of
settlements.
"n this debate we have heard what has almost been a mantra from Members opposed
to the motionG KMake 5alestine a state# but not .ust (et.L "t is absurd for opponents of
this motion to argue that it undermines negotiation. ,here is so much to negotiate# so
much to do# so much for both sides to talk about. "t is almost disingenuous to sa(
that recognising 5alestinian statehood cuts across an( negotiation# and the idea that
recognition of 5alestinian statehood should be conditional or a bargaining chip must
be wrong.
" believe that the time for .ustice for the 5alestinians has come and the time to
recognise 5alestinian statehood is tonight in this %ouse of 6ommons# and " believe
that our own constituents# and above all 5alestinians overseas# are looking to this
%ouse tonight to do the right thing.
:.<A pm
Lisa "and! (1igan) (La): B( introducing this motion toda(# m( friend# m( hon.
1riend the Member for -asington ($rahame M. Morris)# has given voice to the hopes
and aspirations of the 5alestinian people# who have been denied .ustice for far too
long. ?ike me# he will have watched with horror and anger as an ailing peace process
has descended into a c(cle of violence# much of it directed at children# and like me he
will stand with all those 5alestinians and "sraelis who re.ect this# and who understand
that ever( single action taken in anger makes "srael less secure and the prospect of
peace for both sides diminish.
,he onl( path to real securit( lies in political# not militar(# action# but the political
process is failing. " sa( this to those Members who have sought to argue that the
motion would make the situation worseG what are those 5alestinians who have
remained committed to the peace process meant to sa( after a summer that left O00
dead and more than &#000 in.ured and resulted in (et another announcement from
"srael that it is e;panding its illegal occupationand when the product of this process
is half a million more settlers in the west bank and the occupied 5alestinian territories
in recent (ears# children shackled b( the ankles in the militar( courts# and living with
the dail( humiliation of life under occupation7 ,he( have had 3O (ears of militar(
occupation2 if not toda(# then when will this countr( and this %ouse give the
5alestinian people the hope that things will get better7 ,oo man( 5alestinians can
see# as " can# that this process is not a negotiation between e)uals. ,he current
situation# to which the @J remains wedded# allows "sraelin practice if not in
principlea right of veto over 5alestinian statehood. "n what sense can those
negotiations be called meaningful7
=< 4(t ;>=? : Column =;?
,his is wh( " support and welcome the amendment tabled b( m( right hon. 1riend the
Member for Blackburn (Mr Straw). -)ualit( is an essential precondition for peace. A
two+state solution re)uires two states with e)ual status. ,he( must be e)ual
partners# with an e)ual future. "t shames us in Britain# with our historical obligation to
the 5alestinian people# that />& nations have now taken the step of recognising
5alestine while we remain among the handful of states in the @nited 9ations that
refuse to .oin them.
%alf the population of $aFa is under the age of /O. ,heir lives are characterised b(
suCering# humiliation and despair. As Honathan 1reedland wrote recentl(# their
childhoods have been
Kbroken b( pain and bloodshed three times in the past si; (earsL
while the @J stands b( and watches. ,he @J# not "srael# determines our foreign polic(.
8e are members of the -uropean @nion and the @nited 9ations# we are in a special
relationship with the @nited States of America and we are permanent members of the
@9 Securit( 6ouncil. As such# we occup( a privileged position in world aCairs# and it
is about time we showed the world wh(.
:.?= pm
0at! Clark ("orth #!rshire and #rran) (La): "t is a pleasure to have this
opportunit( to contribute to the debate this evening. " congratulate m( hon. 1riend
the Member for -asington ($rahame M. Morris) on securing the debate and on
enabling the space to be created for such powerful arguments from both sides of the
%ouse that tonight is the time for the @J to send a clear message that we recognise
5alestine as a state. ,hose who sa( that this is .ust a gesture and that it does not
matter what the @J 5arliament sa(s are simpl( mistaken. ur historical position in
the world in relation to "srael and 5alestine# the fact that we still hold a highl(
inIuential position and have a close relationship with the @nited States# and the
foreign polic( positions that we have taken over man( (ears# mean that we can now
send an incredibl( powerful message from this %ouse tonight.
,his is the right thing to do morall(# but it is also the right thing to do politicall(. "t is
important in relation to all our other foreign polic( in the region that we should be
seen to be even+handed and fair# and that we should no longer be accused of having
double standards or of failing to stand up for the 5alestinians. 8e have to give our
support to those 5alestinians who believe in a political route to self+determination
based on non+violent action and international pressure. All too often# those people
feel that the( have not been given that support b( the @nited States and the @nited
Jingdom.
M( constituents gave me a clear message this summer that the( did not believe that
the "sraeli response was proportionate to whatever was happening in 5alestine.
Between O Hul( and '< August# there were '#/03 5alestinian deaths# including those
of 3B& children. "n that period# there were <' "sraeli deaths# seven of which were
civilians. ,he @J urged "srael to avoid civilian deaths# but made no condemnation of
"sraeli actions. ,he then @nited 9ations %igh 6ommissioner for %uman Dights# 9avi
5illa(# stated on '> Hul(G
K,here seems to be a strong possibilit( that international law has been violated# in a
manner that could amount to war crimesL.
She also condemned %amas for Kindiscriminate attacksL.
=< 4(t ;>=? : Column =;B
Decognition of the state of 5alestine would mean a more regulated relationship
between the international communit( and "srael and 5alestine. At the moment# we
are not seen as being even+handed. 8hatever people in this %ouse might believe#
the realit( is that we are the ones who are suppl(ing the components for the
weaponr( being used against the 5alestinians. " asked a series of parliamentar(
)uestions this summer and did not get an( answers out of Ministers# but on '
August The Independent detailed the weaponr( being used against civilians in
5alestine that had been produced from components made b( the @Jin particular#
that being used b( drones and tanks against civilian populations. " sa( to the %ouse
that we need to send a clear message tonight that we are even+handed# that we
believe in .ustice and that we recognise the 5alestinian state.
:.?B pm
-!.el 1illiams (#r/on) (PC): " congratulate the hon. Member for -asington
($rahame M. Morris) on securing this debate on a matter that is important to man(
people throughout the @J# 8ales and Arfon. M( local authorit(# $w(nedd# has taken a
lead in condemning the "sraeli $overnment for the indiscriminate violence used in the
recent attacks in $aFa and will not invest in or trade with "srael. $w(nedd sees this
debate# and our vote# as a ke( measure of our concern for 5alestine# and of progress
on the peace process and on a two+state settlement. ,hat process is vital for both
5alestine and "srael alike. 5eople in 5alestine who long for progress and peace# and
man( "sraelis# will take encouragement from a positive vote here tonight. 1or we can
vote for politics# for discussions between e)uals and for an end to war# or we can
stall# *nd e;cuses and point to the latest outrage. ,hat will help and encourage
nobod(# other than those who choose the gun# the rocket# the air strikes and the
blockade.
ur $overnment can decide to recognise 5alestine. 8e make our own polic( and we
are sub.ect to no outside veto. 8e can recognise 5alestine# we can .udge that the
time is right# and we have a responsibilit( to seiFe the opportunit( and to wield our
inIuence as a permanent member of the Securit( 6ouncil# as a member of the
Puartet# and as the imperial power historicall( responsible for the mandate. thers
toda( have discussed the histor( of this )uestion but " will not. " will .ust sa( that
throughout m( adult life there has been war between "srael and its neighbours. 8e
have seen constant invasion# the e;propriation of territor( b( the supporters of war in
"srael and# to be clear# repetitive retaliation and a determined cr( from the war part(#
K9ot now# not .ust (et# not until the( have stopped it.L ,hat KitL could be bus
bombings# hi.ackings or rockets# but whatever it is at the time we have seen constant
blocking and constant concentration on the latest outrage. ,hose "sraelis and Hewish
people across the world who work for peace# reconciliation and a .ust settlement
have been sidelined# ignored and worse. Decognition of 5alestine b( the @J would call
time on this constant conIict.
" have heard arguments that the vote tonight will change nothing. 8e have seen such
arguments in an article in The DailyTelegraph toda( b( m( close neighbour# who is
unaccountabl( not in his place# the hon. Member for Aberconw( ($uto Bebb). %e sa(s
that the vote is
Knon+binding and has no implications for British foreign polic(.L
=< 4(t ;>=? : Column =;C
5arado;icall(# he sa(s that it will damage decades of hard work towards peace. %e
sa(s that
Kinternational opinion won:t be swa(ed b( a few s)uabbling M5s on Britain:s
pposition benchesL
but also that the motion
Kdamages Britain:s role in the Middle -astL.
8ith such confusion and contradiction coming from one opponent
Sir #lan $un(an: =oes the hon. $entleman not *nd it astonishing that having
tabled an amendment and withdrawn it# and clearl( feeling so strongl( about this
issue# m( hon. 1riend the Member for Aberconw( then advocates abstaining not .ust
from the vote# but from the debate itself7
-!.el 1illiams: " know him of old and " am not surprised. As " said# with such
confusion and contradiction coming from .ust one opponent# let alone opponents of
the motion as a group# it is not surprising that man( of them will# apparentl(# choose
to abstain tonight.
" want to take the opportunit( to re.ect (et again the conIation of opposition to the
"sraeli $overnment:s war polic( with supposed enmit( towards the Hewish people.
,hat is a peculiar charge# given that a signi*cant number of Hewish people support
peace. "t will hardl( surprise an(one in the %ouse to hear that 5laid 6(mru M5s sa(
that to recognise 5alestine is to recognise 5alestinian people:s rights to self+
determination. 8e support the rights of all people to self+determination# and that is
wh( we will support the amended motion in the ?obb( tonight.
:.?: pm
Lilian Green.ood ("ottingham South) (La): " congratulate m( hon. 1riend the
Member for -asington ($rahame M. Morris) on securing this debate and on setting
out the case for recognising 5alestine. " support the motion and the amendment in
the name of m( right hon. 1riend the Member for Blackburn (Mr Straw) because it is
the right and .ust thing to do. "t is time to act to save the prospect of a two+state
solution. ,he feeling among m( constituents# a great man( of whom have contacted
me about toda(:s vote# is strong. 1rom the hundreds of e+mails and letters " have
received from 9ottingham South# one message above all stands out. "t is simpl( that
our $overnment should recognise the state of 5alestine alongside the state of "srael.
,hroughout m( life# the "sraeli+5alestinian conIict has ground on and on. 8e have
seen a chronic c(cle of violence# stalled negotiations and recrimination. ,oda(#
5arliament has the opportunit( to reiterate and con*rm our resolve to help end the
suCering and conIict that began before " was born and continues to this da(. "t is not
.ust the people whom we represent who are looking towards this %ouse in the hope of
*nding leadership on this matter# and it is not .ust the people in 5alestine. 5eople
across the world look to Britain because the( are conscious of our historic role.
More than 40 (ears of histor( frames toda(:s debate# but this summer:s violence in
$aFa is ver( much in our minds. All of us were horri*ed b( the images we saw from
5alestine this summer. 8e saw shocking images of dead and wounded civilians
men# women and of course childrenshattered homes and wrecked lives. " am sure
=< 4(t ;>=? : Column =;@
that we were also appalled b( the indiscriminate rocket attacks on "sraeli civilians
from positions within $aFa. 8e cannot stand b( and allow this conIict to continue.
Sadl(# it seems that the window of opportunit( for a two+state solution is narrowing.
,hat is wh( it is time to show political leadership in an eCort to break the impasse#
providing# as m( hon. 1riend the Member for 8re;ham ("an ?ucas) said# a bridge to
negotiations.
Britain recognised the state of "srael in /B&0. Decognising 5alestine now is about
e)ualit( of treatment. "t is about sending a message that a peaceful lasting solution
depends on both parties# "srael and 5alestine# coming to the negotiating table as
e)uals. "t is about sending a message to "srael that it should recognise the state of
5alestine as the state of 5alestine has recognised "srael. "t is about sending a
message to 5alestinians that gives them hope that freedom is possible# resolve in
re.ecting the path of violence that brings no solutions and belief that a diplomatic and
political settlement can be reached.
?ast week# Sweden became the />&th state to recognise 5alestine# .oining />3 other
members of the @nited 9ations that have alread( done so. Britain can and should .oin
them. "srael has a right to e;ist in peace and securit( and "sraelis have as much to
gain from the peace process as 5alestinians. A .ust and lasting resolution is needed.
8e have an opportunit( tonight to bring that possibilit( closer. 8e must grasp it.
:.B< pm
Mike Gapes (Il/ord South) (La*Co+op): A power struggle is going on not .ust in
the whole Arab world but within 5alestinian societ(# between those who believe in a
democratic and secular wa( forward and those who believe in political "slam that will
wipe out not .ust moderate# secular Arabs but the 6hristians and the other religious
minorities in 5alestine. ,his motion is about not .ust the )uestion of recognition but
what kind of 5alestinian state will be createdwhether it will be a state that is in the
hands of %amas or# even worse# al+Paeda elements within $aFa. "t is about whether
we# at this time# as an international communit(# recognise the momentous challenges
that are facing the whole region. "t is not possible for us to go on as we have for the
past /& or '0 (ears. ,he programme K,he $atekeepersL# to which some Members
have referred# was ver( clear. "t talked about a series of missed opportunities# and
onl( one 5rime Minister who had the courage to take the necessar( action# pa(ing for
it with his life. " am talking about EitFhak Dabin. ,he fact is that the current "sraeli
5rime Minister and "sraeli $overnment do not have that courage and are not doing
that.
" speak as a long+standing friend of "srael. " have been denounced as some kind of
Rionist child killer b( certain people in e+mails and on ,witter. " was even attacked
toda( when " said " was going to vote for the motion b( somebod( who thought# K9o#
he can:t possibl( be.L ,he fact is that this is an historic moment because the
5alestinian people need a wa( out of the despair the( face. 8e as an international
communit(the @nited States must also heed this messagemust help the
moderate forces in 1atah b( getting their strateg(# which is to take the issue
internationall(# to provide the wa( forward. therwise# the people who believe in the
rocket attacks# the suicide bombs# the destruction of civilian
=< 4(t ;>=? : Column =;A
communities and the killing of childrennot .ust "sraeli children but their own
children# who are used as human shieldswill gain the ascendenc(.
,his is not a position that %amas wants brought to the @9# and %amas opposed the
previous attempts b( the 5alestinian Authorit(. ,he leader of m( part( was )uite right
when he said that %amas is a vile terrorist organisation. 8e need to support 1atah
and the democratic and secular voices in 5alestinian societ(. ,his is the chance for us
to do so and for that reason " will vote for the motion and support the amendment. "
hope that all other friends of "srael in this countr( will understand that this is the right
thing to do.
:.BC pm
Grahame M. Morris: " will wind up ver( )uickl(. " thank ever(one who has
participated in the debate. " counted more than 3> Members who made speeches and
numerous interventions. " thank the Backbench Business 6ommittee for having the
foresight to allocate time in the 6hamber. 8e have had a tremendous debate. " am
perhaps a little biased# but it is a rare occasion on which the %ouse speaks with one
voice# as " think it has this evening. -;cellent points have been made. "t would be
unfair to pick out an(one# but some people have made e;cellent contributions.
" want to impress on the Minister# in view of ever(thing that has been saidhe has
sat patientl( and he is a decent manthe need to reIect on the debate. ,he will of
5arliament has spoken tonight. "t is the right thing to do to recognise 5alestine and "
hope that he will go awa( and implement the motion.
Amendment agreed to.
Main Question, as amended, put.
The House divided:
A(es '<3# 9oes /'.
$i'ision "o. B?D
E
:.BA pm
#FES
Abbott# Ms =iane
Abrahams# =ebbie
Ainsworth# rh Mr Bob
Ale;ander# rh Mr =ouglas
Ale;ander# %eidi
Ali# Dushanara
Allen# Mr $raham
Anderson# Mr =avid
Ashworth# Honathan
Bacon# Mr Dichard
Baile(# Mr Adrian
Bain# Mr 8illiam
Baker# Steve
Banks# $ordon
Barron# rh Jevin
Beckett# rh Margaret
Begg# =ame Anne
Benn# rh %ilar(
Ben(on# Dichard
Betts# Mr 6live
Birtwistle# $ordon
Blackman+8oods# Doberta
Blenkinsop# ,om
Blom*eld# 5aul
Bottomle(# Sir 5eter
Bradshaw# rh Mr Ben
Brennan# Jevin
Bridgen# Andrew
Brooke# rh Annette
Brown# ?(n
Brown# Mr Dussell
Bruce# rh Sir Malcolm
Br(ant# 6hris
Buck# Ms Jaren
Burden# Dichard
Burnham# rh And(
B(rne# rh Mr ?iam
6ampbell# rh Mr Alan
6ampbell# rh Sir MenFies
6ampbell# Mr Donnie
6armichael# 9eil
6aton# Martin
6hampion# Sarah
6hapman# Henn(
6lark# Jat(
6larke# rh Mr ,om
6oaker# Vernon
6onnart(# Michael
6ooper# Dosie
6ooper# rh Evette
6reas(# Stella
6rockart# Mike
6rouch# ,race(
6ruddas# Hon
6r(er# Hohn
6unningham# Mr Him
6unningham# Sir ,on(
6urran# Margaret
=akin# 9ic
=ancFuk# Simon
=avid# 8a(ne
=avidson# Mr "an
=avies# =avid ,. 6.
(Monmouth)
=avies# $eraint
=e 5iero# $loria
=enham# rh Mr Hohn
=obson# rh 1rank
=ochert(# ,homas
=onohoe# Mr Brian %.
=oran# Mr 1rank
=ought(# Stephen
=owd# Him
=o(le# $emma
=rome(# Hack
=uncan# rh Sir Alan
=urkan# Mark
-agle# Ms Angela
-agle# Maria
-dwards# Honathan
-Cord# 6live
-lliott# Hulie
-sterson# Bill
-vans# 6hris
1arrell(# 5aul
1ield# rh Mr 1rank
1itFpatrick# Him
1lello# Dobert
1lint# rh 6aroline
1l(nn# 5aul
1uller# Dichard
$apes# Mike
$arnier# Sir -dward
$eorge# Andrew
$illan# rh Mrs 6her(l
$ilmore# Sheila
$lindon# Mrs Mar(
$oodman# %elen
$reatre;# ,om
$reen# Jate
$reenwood# ?ilian
$rieve# rh Mr =ominic
$ri!th# 9ia
%ames# =uncan
%amilton# Mr =avid
%ancock# Mr Mike
%anson# rh Mr =avid
%arman# rh Ms %arriet
%arve(# Sir 9ick
%eale(# rh Hohn
%eath# Mr =avid
%emming# Hohn
%endrick# Mark
%epburn# Mr Stephen
%ermon# ?ad(
%e(es# =avid
%illier# Meg
%illing# Hulie
%odgson# Mrs Sharon
%ollobone# Mr 5hilip
%ollowa(# Mr Adam
%ood# Mr Him
%opkins# Jelvin
%orwood# Martin
%osie# Stewart
%owarth# rh Mr $eorge
%unter# Mark
%uppert# =r Hulian
"rranca+=avies# %uw
Hackson# $lenda
Hamieson# 6ath(
Harvis# =an
Hohnson# =iana
Hones# rh Mr =avid
Hones# $raham
Hones# Mr Jevan
Hones# Susan -lan
Jane# Mike
Jaufman# rh Sir $erald
Jeele(# Barbara
Jhan# rh Sadi)
?atham# 5auline
?aver(# "an
?aFarowicF# Mark
?eech# Mr Hohn
?eigh# Sir -dward
?eslie# 6harlotte
?eslie# 6hris
?ewell+Buck# Mrs -mma
?iddell+$rainger# Mr "an
?ille(# rh Mr 5eter
?lw(d# rh Mr -lf(n
?ong# 9aomi
?oughton# ,im
?ove# Mr Andrew
?ucas# 6aroline
?ucas# "an
?umle(# Jaren
Mac9eil# Mr Angus Brendan
Mactaggart# 1iona
Mahmood# Mr Jhalid
Mahmood# Shabana
Main# Mrs Anne
Malhotra# Seema
Marsden# Mr $ordon
Mc6abe# Steve
Mc6arth(# Jerr(
Mc6artne(# Hason
Mc6l(mont# $regg
Mc=onagh# Siobhain
Mc=onald# And(
Mc=onnell# Hohn
Mc$overn# Him
Mc"nnes# ?iF
McJechin# Ann
McJenFie# Mr "ain
McJinnell# 6atherine
Meacher# rh Mr Michael
Mearns# "an
MenFies# Mark
Miliband# rh -dward
Miller# Andrew
Moon# Mrs Madeleine
Moore# rh Michael
Morden# Hessica
Morrice# $raeme
(Livingston)
Morris# $rahame M.
(asington)
Mudie# Mr $eorge
Mulholland# $reg
Murra(# "an
9and(# ?isa
9ash# 5amela
A=onnell# 1iona
llerenshaw# -ric
nwurah# 6hi
sborne# Sandra
wen# Albert
5erkins# ,ob(
5hillipson# Bridget
5ound# Stephen
5ugh# Hohn
Pureshi# Easmin
Da(nsford# rh Mr 9ick
Deed# Mr Hamie
Deid# Mr Alan
De(nolds# -mma
Diordan# Mrs ?inda
Ditchie# Ms Margaret
Dobathan# rh Mr Andrew
Dobertson# Angus
Dobertson# rh Sir %ugh
Dobertson# Mr ?aurence
Dotheram# Steve
Do(# Mr 1rank
Do(# ?indsa(
Duane# 6hris
Duddock# rh =ame Hoan
Dussell# Sir Bob
Sanders# Mr Adrian
Sarwar# Anas
Sawford# And(
Seabeck# Alison
Sharma# Mr Virendra
Sheerman# Mr Barr(
Sheridan# Him
Shuker# $avin
Skinner# Mr =ennis
Slaughter# Mr And(
Smith# Angela
Smith# 9ick
Smith# wen
Smith# Sir Dobert
Soames# rh Sir 9icholas
Stephenson# Andrew
Stewart# Bob
Straw# rh Mr Hack
Stuart# Ms $isela
Stunell# rh Sir Andrew
SutcliCe# Mr $err(
Swales# "an
,ami# Mark
,eather# Sarah
,homas# Mr $areth
,hornberr(# -mil(
,hornton# Mike
,imms# rh Stephen
,rickett# Hon
,urner# Mr Andrew
,urner# Jarl
,wigg# =erek
,wigg# Stephen
@munna# Mr 6huka
VaF# rh Jeith
VaF# Valerie
Vickers# Martin
8alle(# Hoan
8ard# Mr =avid
8atts# Mr =ave
8eir# Mr Mike
8harton# Hames
8hite# 6hris
8hiteford# =r -ilidh
8hitehead# =r Alan
8illiams# %(wel
8illiams# Mr Mark
8illiams# Doger
8illiamson# 6hris
8ilson# 5hil
8innick# Mr =avid
8interton# rh Ms Dosie
8ishart# 5ete
8ollaston# =r Sarah
8right# =avid
8right# Mr "ain
Eeo# Mr ,im
5ellers /or the #!es:
Ale; 6unningham
and
6rispin Blunt
"4ES
Beith# rh Sir Alan
Blackman# Bob
=.anogl(# Mr Honathan
=odds# rh Mr 9igel
1reer# Mike
Mc6rea# =r 8illiam
Mills# 9igel
Cord# =r Matthew
5aisle(# "an
Shannon# Him
Simpson# =avid
S(ms# Mr Dobert
5ellers /or the "oes:
Herem( 6orb(n
and
Mike 8ood
Question a!!ordingly agreed to.
"esolved,
,hat this %ouse believes that the $overnment should recognise the state of 5alestine
alongside the state of "srael# as a contribution to securing a negotiated two state
solution.
&erem! Cor!n (Islington "orth) (La): n a point of order# Mr Speaker. ,he
%ouse has voted emphaticall( tonight to support the recognition of the 5alestinian
state. ,hat is good news# which will be well received b( man( people# and we should
bear witness to those thousands who marched and demonstrated and those
thousands who e+mailed us.
"f " ma(# " will brieI( e;plain wh( " and m( hon. 1riend the Member for Batle( and
Spen (Mike 8ood) were tellers for a position that we do not actuall( hold. "t was to
ensure that democrac( could take place and that Members could record their vote#
because those who were opposed to the motion declined to put up tellers. 8e have
thus ensured democrac( here tonight. ,he constituents whom we all represent will be
able to see what inIuence the( were able to have on their Members of 5arliament#
ensuring that this historic vote took place.