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UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
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ANTI-TRUST LITIGATION.
C-05-00037-JW (HRL)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF
STEVE JOBS
VOLUME I
April 12, 2011
10:03 a.m.
1 Infinite Loop
Cupertino, California
HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL - ATTORNEYS' EYES ONLY
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APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL
For the Direct Purchaser Plaintiffs:
ROBBINS GELLER RUDMAN & DOWD LLP
BONNY E. SWEENEY, ESQ.
ALEXANDRA S. BERNAY, ESQ.
CARMEN A. MEDICI, ESQ.
655 West Broadway, Suite 1900
San Diego, California 92101
619.231.1058
bsweeney@rgrdlaw.com
xanb@rgrdlaw.com
cmedici@rgrdlaw.com
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INDEX TO EXHIBITS
Exhibit
Description
Page
Exhibit 1
E-mail Chain, Top E-mail
Dated July 23, 2004 to
Jeff Robbin from Eddy Cue,
Production Nos. Apple_AIIA
00090405-07
Exhibit 2
E-mail Dated July 24, 2004
to Eddy Cue, et al., from
Katie Cotton, Production
No. Apple_AIIA01384973
Exhibit 5
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Also Present:
MATTHEW COPE, VIDEOGRAPHER
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Exhibit 4
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PAGE
7
Exhibit 3
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INDEX OF EXAMINATION
Exhibit 6
Exhibit 7
CNETNews.com Article
Exhibit 8
Exhibit 9
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PROCEEDINGS
(Whereupon, Deposition Exhibits 1
through 10 were pre-marked for
identification.)
THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Good morning. This is
Disk 1 in the videotaped deposition of Steve Jobs,
in the Apple iPod iTunes Antitrust Litigation.
This deposition is being held at Apple
headquarters, One Infinite Loop, Cupertino,
California. It's April 12th, 2011 at 10:03 A.M.
My name's Matt Cope. I'm the videographer
from Esquire in San Francisco. The court reporter
today is Ana Dub.
Counsel, will you please introduce
yourselves.
MS. SWEENEY: Bonny Sweeney, representing
the direct purchaser plaintiffs.
MS. BERNAY: Alexandra Bernay, also
representing the direct purchaser plaintiffs.
MR. MEDICI: Carmen Medici, also
representing the direct purchaser plaintiffs.
MR. OLSEN: Aaron Olsen representing the
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A. Yeah.
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Q. As far as I know.
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A. Okay.
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Q. In some form.
Do you recall in 2004 when RealNetworks
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yeah.
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on an iPod?
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A. No.
Q. Okay. And this is a document that was
produced by Apple, and it's a series of e-mails.
The last e-mail, the one on the top left of the
first page, is from Eddy Cue to Jeff Robbin, and
it's discussing a draft press release by Apple
responding to the Harmony product.
Do you recall the discussions that took
place at Apple between July 23rd and July 26th, 2004
regarding Harmony?
A. I don't, no.
Q. Can you turn to the last page of
Exhibit 1.
A. Sure.
Q. And the top of that page reads:
"Describe the situation using
Steve's analogy. 'Normally
you're concerned that someone is
going to break [into] your house
to steal your stereo. In this
case, it appears that someone is
breaking into our house and
setting up their own stereo -but they're still breaking in.'"
Did you make that analogy to describe the
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pockets.
And we had pretty much black-and-white
contracts with the labels that if people violated
the digital rights management system on iTunes or on
the iPod and they allowed music to be taken off of
the iPod, as an example, and put on somebody else's
computer, that that would be in clear violation of
the licenses that we had with the labels, and they
could cease giving us music at any time because of
that.
So I remember we were very concerned about
that. And we went to great pains to make sure that
people couldn't hack into our digital rights
management system because if they could, we would
get nasty e-mails from the labels threatening us
to -- you know, that they were going to yank the
license.
Q. But because RealNetworks' Harmony product
didn't strip DRM, the labels were okay with it;
isn't that right?
A. No, I don't remember that at all, no. I
don't know whether it stripped the DRM off or not.
I think it must have had to have stripped the DRM
off. Not strip it off, but break it.
Q. Let's --
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DRM?
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for everybody.
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music; correct?
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to this question and -MR. RILEY: And I don't think it's tied to
the three topics that the judge permitted. Cease
and desist letters to third parties?
MS. SWEENEY: You've stated your
objection. Thank you, Counsel.
MR. RILEY: You don't have to answer that
question, Steve, if you don't want to.
THE WITNESS: Okay.
MS. SWEENEY: Respectfully, you can
object; and if I continue down roads that you think
are beyond the scope, you can seek an order from the
Court. But the only basis for instructing a witness
not to answer is if there is an attorney-client
privilege issue.
MR. RILEY: I'm aware of that, but this is
a different kind of deposition. The Court limited
it to three narrow topics. I don't see how cease
and desist letters to third parties fits into any of
those three topics.
MS. SWEENEY: Because it fits into -- if
you'll recall, the judge said we're permitted to
inquire about Apple's decisions related to
RealNetworks' Harmony technology.
And Apple did issue cease and desist
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again?
BY MS. SWEENEY:
Q. Did Apple issue cease and desist letters
against companies that developed technology that
stripped DRM from iTunes songs?
A. I don't -- in that time frame, I don't
remember.
Q. Now, do you know who Rob Glaser is?
A. Well, I don't know him, but I know he was
the CEO of RealNetworks for a while.
Q. Did you ever meet Mr. Glaser?
A. That's a good question.
I probably did once or twice. I don't
remember.
Q. Did you ever talk to him on the phone?
A. I might have. I just don't remember.
Q. Now, looking at Exhibits 1, 2 -A. Do you want me to look at 2 now?
Q. -- and 3, collectively, I think these are
all exhibits pertaining to -A. Do you want me to look at 2? We haven't
looked at 2 yet.
Q. Oh. We haven't?
A. No.
MR. RILEY: No.
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BY MS. SWEENEY:
Q. I'm sorry.
A. You skipped over it. Do you want me to
read it?
Q. No, that's okay. I'm sorry. Let me ask a
different question.
A. Okay.
Q. Okay. I'm sorry. Going back to
Exhibit 3, now Mr. Cue says in the top of the
left-hand side of the first page:
"Also remember some labels at
this point are also worried that
we are getting to be too
dominant."
And is this something that you discussed
at Apple around this time frame, that is, the
labels' concern that Apple was becoming too
dominant?
A. I don't really remember. I mean, I
remember there was such a time. I don't really know
when it was. Probably spanned many years, but I
don't really remember when.
Q. But you do recall that at some time the
labels expressed a concern that Apple was becoming
too dominant?
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Q. Yes, please.
A. Okay.
(Witness reviews document.)
BY MS. SWEENEY:
Q. Have you had a chance to read that,
Mr. Jobs?
A. No. I'm still reading it.
(Witness reviews document.)
THE WITNESS: Okay.
BY MS. SWEENEY:
Q. All right. So first of all, the headline
of Exhibit 7 says:
"RealNetworks breaks Apple's
hold on iPod."
And then it says:
"Rob Glaser and Steve Jobs
have feuded before."
Do you know what that's referring to, that
you and Mr. Glaser feuded before?
A. I don't, no.
Q. And then you recall in a previous exhibit
we were looking at, which is the e-mail
correspondence between you and Mr. Horowitz, you
were complaining about Larry's quote in a CNET
article.
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A. Mm-hmm.
Q. Okay. And do you recall that
announcement?
A. I don't, no.
Q. All right. Let's have a look at
Exhibit 6. And I apologize for skipping around.
A. That's okay.
Q. That's the press release.
(Witness reviews document.)
THE WITNESS: Okay.
BY MS. SWEENEY:
Q. All right.
A. Excuse me.
Q. Exhibit 6 is -- appears to be a press
release by Apple dated July 29th.
Is that a press release that Apple issued
on July 29th, 2004?
A. I don't know. Looks like it, but I don't
know.
Q. Do you have any reason to believe it's not
a press release that was issued by Apple?
A. No.
Q. Some of the other exhibits we were looking
at discussed drafts of a press release pertaining to
RealNetworks' Harmony product. Do you recall those
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documents?
A. Yeah.
Q. Okay. And -A. That you just showed me?
Q. That's correct.
A. Yes.
Q. And does this statement on Exhibit 6
represent the final version of those various draft
iterations of the press release?
A. It would appear to.
Q. Okay. And looking at the text of the
statement, it says:
"We are stunned that
RealNetworks has adopted the
tactics and ethics of a hacker
to break into the iPod . . . ."
And then it goes on. And my first
question is: What did you mean by "the tactics and
ethics of a hacker"?
A. I don't recall writing this, so I don't
know. Maybe I wrote it, but -- I can guess at what
the person that wrote it meant, if you'd like.
Q. Is it a pejorative description, the
tactics and ethics of a hacker?
A. What do you mean by "pejorative"?
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really have any engineers on it. And -MR. RILEY: I think she is referring to
the entire list of recipients.
THE WITNESS: Oh, I see. From Jeff
Robbin. Huh? Yeah, Jeff's an engineer.
BY MS. SWEENEY:
Q. Okay.
A. And I don't see any engineers copied on 4
either. So I guess Jeff sent this out to people,
and Eddy had sent it out.
MR. RILEY: Greg Joswiak.
THE WITNESS: Greg's not an engineer.
MR. RILEY: Right. But he's copied on
this.
THE WITNESS: But he's not an engineer.
BY MS. SWEENEY:
Q. All right. So Mr. Robbin, who is an
engineer, was involved in at least some of the
discussions at Apple regarding the drafting of the
press release; correct?
A. Mm-hmm.
Q. Okay. And the press release says that it
is highly likely that Harmony will cease to work.
If it was certain that Harmony would cease
to work with iPods, wouldn't Apple have said that in
press release.
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July of 2004?
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Harmony?
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BY MS. SWEENEY:
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strong.
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at Apple?
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BY MS. SWEENEY:
A. Yeah.
A. Mm-hmm.
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laws."
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Harmony?
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BY MS. SWEENEY:
Q. All right. And this is -- it says at the
top of this e-mail:
"Here are the final speaking
points and Q&A for tomorrow."
Do you recall some kind of speech that you
gave on or about April 28, 2004 about iTunes?
MR. RILEY: I'm going to -- hold on just a
moment.
I'm going to object. This is completely
outside the scope. It's a document dated April 27,
2004. It is in no way related to the three topics
that Judge Lloyd permitted this deposition to
inquire into.
BY MS. SWEENEY:
Q. Can you turn to the third page of this
exhibit, please. At the top of that page, it's
asking you about the proposal made by Mr. Glaser of
RealNetworks to you; correct?
MR. RILEY: Which page are we on, Bates
stamp?
MS. SWEENEY: The third page of
Exhibit 13.
MR. RILEY: Bates stamp 584?
MS. SWEENEY: I'm sorry. Page 4.
Toll Free: 800.300.1214
Facsimile: 619.239.4117
Suite 1600
402 West Broadway
San Diego, CA 92101
www.esquiresolutions.com
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CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER
I, ANA M. DUB, a Certified Shorthand
Reporter, hereby certify that the witness in the
foregoing deposition was by me duly sworn to tell
the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the
truth in the within-entitled cause;
That said deposition was taken down in
shorthand by me, a disinterested person, at the time
and place therein stated, and that the testimony of
the said witness was thereafter reduced to
typewriting, by computer, under my direction and
supervision;
That before completion of the deposition,
review of the transcript [X] was [ ] was not
requested. If requested, any changes made by the
deponent (and provided to the reporter) during the
period allowed are appended hereto.
I further certify that I am not of counsel
or attorney for either or any of the parties to the
said deposition, nor in any way interested in the
event of this cause, and that I am not related to
any of the parties thereto.
DATED: April 14, 2011.
__________________________________
ANA M. DUB, RMR, CRR, CSR No. 7445
__________________________________________________
__________________________________________________
__________________________________________________
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__________________________________________________
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__________________________________________________
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__________________________________________________
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__________________________________________________
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SIGNATURE:_______________________DATE:___________
STEVE JOBS
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__________________________________________________
__________________________________________________
__________________________________________________
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__________________________________________________
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__________________________________________________
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__________________________________________________
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___________________________________
STEVE JOBS
SIGNATURE:_______________________DATE:___________
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