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7 Question Interview with Ben Russell, Chicago-based Artist

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Ben Russell's Trypps Series, 17, MCA, September 18, 2010

7 Question Interview with Ben Russell, Chicago-based Artist

15 September 2010 by Andrew Rosinski

Ben Russell is a Chicago-based filmmaker, artist, art instructor at the University of Illinois at Chicago,
curator, and a great keynote speaker. Perhaps he may be considered a terminologist, for he seemingly
has coined the term/genre psychedelic ethnography, judging by his writings and recent inspiring
lecture at the MCA.
Mr. Russells recent three-hour ethnography Let Each One Go Where He May (2009) won a FIPRESCI
award at the 2010 International Film Festival Rotterdam. It is a pioneering film in the ethnographic
sphere of cinema: an experimental ethnographic film shot almost entirely with a 16mm Steadicam rig in
thirteen extended shots of nearly ten minutes each.
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In the past, Ben developed stimulating relationship with east-coast-Providence-Baltimore-area

noise/punk/underground music scene, whence Black Dice was a hardcore band, a period whence he
documented the live-event of a Lightning Bolt concert, slow-motion live-action action that is Mr.
Russells first documentary/ethnographic film, Black and White Trypps Number Three.
In this interview, Ben talks about how he made an underwater remake of the 1991 cinematic classic,
Boyz n the Hood.

Trypps #5 (Dubai), (3 min, 16mm, color, silent, 2008)

(1) HEADS AND TAILS (as a metaphor for your filmmaking career): what are your words on:
the heads/leader (your start), where you are now, and your tails (however you interpret tails).
HEADS:
I ran away from home when I was six or seven because my parents wouldnt let me watch Superman on
TV; Aliens (1986) was my first R-Rated movie; I had nightmares for weeks from overhearing the
sountrack to The Shining (1980). I grew up in the suburbs of Southern California where I got to watch
five hours of television a week and would spend my weekends in triple features at the Mission Viejo
Mall. I remember watching everything I could, liking all of it. I played Raiders of the Lost Arc (1981)
and sometimes Dune in my backyard, made out with a girl named Kim during the credits of
Neverending Story 2, made an underwater video remake of Boyz N Tha Hood at summer camp. I dont
remember watching foreign films or documentaries, or at least I didnt search em out MTV [i.e. "I
want my MTV"] and Max Headroom (19871988) and TWIN PEAKS were the bits of media that
really blew my mind. Welcome to the Jungle totally freaked me out that image of Axl Rose
screaming in an electric chair = proof of image-power.
I went to college to make art and be a marine biologist. I made emotionally fraught photographs of my
first girlfriend, lived in Australia for a year and learned about Flaherty, ethnography, Foucault, and
conceptual art. I studied with an anthropologist whose research was on Easter Island, I went to Papua
New Guinea for 50 minutes, and some time later I returned to Providence, USA, where I made videos
under Gregg Bordowitzs watch and three 16mm films under Leslie Thorntons quiet stare. Public art,
falling asleep during Dead Man (1994), wheatposting, video installation with bark chips, BADLANDS
projected in the Fort Thunder parking lot, Wend Kuuni (1992) and cinema-time, Black Dice as a
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7 Question Interview with Ben Russell, Chicago-based Artist

hardcore band. Time passed and I traded Providence for Suriname two years in the Peace Corps, the
only movies I saw in the Paramaribo theater were out-of-focus (Saving Private Ryan, 1998) or burning
in the gate (70s GERMAN PORN). Those theaters later became churches, then casinos. I lived in a
jungle village, learned an obscure language, wrote a letter a day on a missionarys typewriter, shot three
rolls of super-8 and decided to be a poet.
TAILS:
After grad school, after jungle surrealist films and pinhole films and slow-mo old-timey films and video
voice-overs and synch-sound films I moved back to Providence, I got dark and lonesome. Cinema
became inert so I tried to find a way out of it, realized that Id been circling around non-fiction like some
dumb buzzard, decided to land and sink my talons into the body that had always clearly been there.
Prior to that moment, Id made images of worlds that were somehow somewhere else to the left of this
one, I used to say. I dont know if it was heartache or age or that damp Northeastern air, but I suddenly
developed a taste for the present that hasnt left me since. All of those early cinema re-enactments and
collaborative ethnographies, the later Trypps and my recent feature [Let Each One Go Where He May
(2009)], these are all about addressing the now in a meaningful way. Im entered into a contract with
the present for the sake of the future however long it may take to roll out.

The Quarry, 2002, 16mm, color, silent, 2002

(2) You teach at UIC. How often do you teach, what courses, how fun, and how (in what ways)
challenging?
Its true Ive been there since 2006, been in a classroom since 2003. It seems to be a decent way to
find the time and money to make work in parallel, although Ive of course been really lucky to end up
where I am, to have the job that I do. My colleagues are all active, engaged, and prolific artists and I
feel privileged to be in their mix. I teach two classes a week, four courses a year right now its 16mm
Production: the Portrait and Interdicisiplinary Seminar 1: Contemporary Theory Since 1985, next
semester itll be Moving Image Topics: The Remake and Psychedelic Ethnography etc etc. UIC has a
robust MFA program, so theres a bit of advising thrown in for good measure, along with challenging
critiques and the like. While I never feel like Im prepared enough and all of that one-sided social
interaction can be totally exhausting, its still pretty great at least I enjoy teaching and have a passable
stand-up routine for my students. The best part is that Im still getting smarter by dint of my
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7 Question Interview with Ben Russell, Chicago-based Artist

conversations with the artists that make up our MFA program. I could never really speak cogently
about the plastic arts before I started at UIC, but I sure can talk the shit out of em now.

The Quarry (2002)

(3) You often use 16mm film. What are your thoughts on film; what are your thoughts on video?
What are the provisions for film/video on a project?
Films great and videos great but theyve both got different economies, histories, and aesthetics. I tend
to work in film more than video because Im getting less and less interested in post-production (I suspect
it has a lot to do with not wanting to spend any more of my life in front of a computer screen), and it still
seems like thats where the real possibilities of video lie. I like the restrictions that the cost and
materiality of film place on me I make better decisions when I have structures to butt up against, and
the durational concerns that a 100 or 400 roll of film presents are really different than what a 60:00
miniDV tape of a solid-state recorder propose. I started using video in 1996 (or so) and have been
working with film since 1998, but I still dont really feel like I understand what video is or how it
works. The mechanics of film cameras and projectors, the chemistry of emulsion and developer, the
nature of light and reflection those seem pretty transparent to me, and theres a real physicality to
cinema that I can wrap my head around. This just isnt the case with video, and Ive consequently
developed more of an affinity to cinema.
As a viewer, Im totally invested in the cinema experience as well the projected image, writ large on
that silver screen I dont watch much television and rarely see movies at home; I find the combination
of the social and the spectacular that a theater provides to be one of the most fulfilling experiences I can
ask for.

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7 Question Interview with Ben Russell, Chicago-based Artist

Let Each One Go Where He May (EXCERPT) from Ben Russell

Having said as much, while my first impulse is to choose film over video, as a good conceptual artist
there are all sorts of hoops that I force myself to jump through before I settle on one form or the other.
Both mediums do radically different things to their subjects, and it is this factor, this notion of what the
subject is and how it is going to be presented, that is usually the selling point. By way of example: I
was in Mali for a month over the summer making video portraits of Dogon animist magicians, and I
chose video over film because I wanted these men and women to be as firmly entrenched in the presentthat-video-connotes as possible. Video doesnt age well, whereas film has gone more or less unchanged
for the last century this means that my video image will, at some point in the not-so-far-off, serve as a
temporal index for the moment when I captured the semblance of these magicians. Lensed through a
16mm camera, they wouldve been made cinematic removed from time, placed in atmosphere
circling somewhere above the present. Of course, I made the opposite decision with Let Each One Go
Where He May for that very reason to mythologize my subjects, however minutely.

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7 Question Interview with Ben Russell, Chicago-based Artist

Ben Russell with a miniature film slate

(4) You are a Chicago filmmaker. When you hear Chicago film, what does that recall?
If I have to be anything at this point in time then Id prefer to be a Chicago-based artist terms
certainly have their uses, but filmmaker both limits the conversation and privileges one way of
working over all of the other approaches that I employ (video, installation, curation, photography,
performance).
As for CHICAGO FILM, its getting harder and harder to imagine geography as any kind of a
determinant for a style or school of artmaking. The increasingly global nature of media + the relative
nomadism of the American population means that borders are pretty tough to pin down. What the
phrase CHICAGO FILM does conjure up is a surprisingly rosy image of a super-supportive community
of makers, exhibitors, and venues. Its a great town to make images and sounds in, to be sure, and right
now feels like a pretty brilliant moment for such things.

Trypps #7 (Badlands), 10 min, 16mm, color, sound, 2010

(5) Your Trypps series: what was the evolution of this series, project-to-project, 1-7?
Id just moved back to Providence and was feeling really stuck in this long film about Billy the Kid that
Id shot in Gary, IN, just prior to leaving Chicago. There wasnt much in the way of experimental film
in Providence, so I ended up going to noise shows about four or five times a week, started thinking
about how to make what was happening to my body in those spaces take place in the zone of cinema. It
seemed too easy to use sound at first, so BWT#1 and BWT#2 were silent. I made both of em pretty
quickly as well initially just to have footage to project for a show in NYC that I was sharing with Joe
Grimm and filmmaker Jonathan Schwartz. I screened the footage while Joe was performing, used some
of it and shot some more, remember being really excited when I got the rushes back from BWT#2 and
felt my body react to the footage by moving towards it That was the sort of thing I was after, but
those first two films felt too modernist, too acritical, and it ultimately made sense to make BWT#3 at a
Lightning Bolt show since that was the reason for the series in the first place.
With BWT#3, I felt like it wasnt enough to just film the concert, that if I did whatever I came up with
would just be a lesser version of what the live experience was. I needed to produce something else, to
let the film be an experience in of itself thats where the slow-motion came into play, the drone that
went with it. That film is almost entirely in-camera, and its the first instance where I felt like everything
happened exactly as I wanted it to, although of course I only set the stage for bits and pieces of it to
occur. Significantly, that film marked the first time that I shot footage of the world-in-the-present,
something that Id been avoiding since I first started out.
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7 Question Interview with Ben Russell, Chicago-based Artist

BWT#4 was initially intended as an apology for the avant-garde aesthetics and sensibilities of
BWT#1 and BWT#2. I didnt feel like either of those films were very representative of my interests or
abilities as an artist, and I was a bit embarassed that they were both getting play and winning awards
around and about. I think theyre fine films, theyre just not what Im after or about. Anyway
BWT#4 was meant to be a play on words its in four sections, its in black and white, it features a
black comedian telling jokes about black and white people, and the main character trips (or trypps)
during the course of the film. Id had the footage, 16mm picture slug of Richard Pryors 1979 LIVE IN
CONCERT, for a few years, and it seemed like the right time to use it I figured that by making hi-con
contact prints of the original footage and then mirroring them in multiple directions, I could make
something totally apeshit to watch. I didnt anticipate the optical effects that would ensue (retinal
afterimages! Purplegreenred!) and it wasnt until I started working with the original sound that I realized
how heavy Richard Pryors monologue was. The film stopped being an apology and became an
attempt to force a critical conversation between race, representation, and experimental cinema.

Black and White Trypps Number Four from Ben Russell on Vimeo.
After all of that hand-processing and contact printing, I was a bit shocked to find TRYPPS #5 (DUBAI)
just waiting for me out there in the world. It presented itself to me while I was recording sound on a
project in Dubai, and I wasnt sure for a while afterwards whether or not it was actually a film. Turns
out it was the combination of candy-neon flicker and inquiry into global capital was all it needed.
Although that film is technically silent, the beats produced through onscreen movement place it well
within the lineage of the other sound films in the series.
I shot TRYPPS #6 (MALOBI) while making LET EACH ONE GO WHERE HE MAY, and while it
does exist in a slightly shorter incarnation in the latter film, I do think of it as a film in its own right. I
decided to release it into the world with this understanding my onscren presence with the slate at the
beginning of the film not only rhymes with the beginning of BWT#3 (as does the ending, with the
flash/photographer), but it foregrounds the essential question of how much is construction and how
much is actuality. This doesnt happen within the context of the feature, or if it does, it transpires in a
very different fashion. TRYPPS #6 (MALOBI) makes a great deal of sense within the series, pointing
as it does to the function of trance and ritual ( la Jean Rouch), the ethnographic, and the ecstatic. It felt
like a great partner to BWT#3 in particular, and I do like that the time of this film is undeniably the same
time as the films that preceded it this is all happening now, in the world.
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7 Question Interview with Ben Russell, Chicago-based Artist

Like BWT#4, TRYPPS #7 (BADLANDS) was meant to top off the series well see if that happens or
not. This is the first piece that Ive made specifically for a video installation, and while itll soon enough
have a life as a single-channel film, Im presently unsure as to what will be lost/gained when Space and
Repetition are taken away, when it becomes a 10:00 film. As it stands, the film is still a bit new for me
and Im unsure as to how/what to talk about it, save that its another great instance of serendipity
determining the course of events within the frame that Id established. I initially tried and rather
magnificently failed to be the figure onscreen those cliffside Badlands elements conspired against me,
or actually with me, as the end result is much better than any I couldve imagined
Theres an ongoing conversation about the function of trance throughout the TRYPPS series, and since
the specter of drug use hovers over the secular instances of trance, TRYPPS #7 (BADLANDS) seemed
like the right moment to address this topic directly. Ever since seeing FUNERAL PROCESSION OF
ROSES, Ive wanted to make a portrait of someone in an altered state; cinema always seemed like too
radical of an imposition however, and it took a really specific failure for me to allow myself to make the
seventh film in this series. As was the case with BWT#3, Im not at all interested in producing a record
of experience the idea of making a record of something so radically subjective and internal (an acid
trip) is preposterous. The turns that the film ends up taking are reflective of my attempt to produce a
cinema that operates on its own terms, that produces its own experience, that can function as a site of
transcendence unto itself.

(6) You are a curator. Tell us more.

After soaking up as much cinema as I could in grad school, my move to Providence intitially felt like
some sort of sad desert migration. The kind of critical engagement that I was used to was lacking
(although it was happening in other cultural zones music, in particular), and it seemed that the only
way it was going to happen was if I made it materialize. In February of 2004 I started MAGIC
LANTERN, a tri-weekly screening series of thematically-curated film and video works, complete with
beautiful silkscreened posters and vintage thank-you postcards for all participants. Id come across a lot
of difficult-and-joyless avant-garde film screenings during the years prior, and it was really important for
me to find a way to frame works I totally cared about within a context that was neither
pandering/populist or exclusive and soul-sucking. Organizing programs according to theme (as opposed
to by maker, geography, or time period) made the most sense, and I did this for 20+ shows before
trading Providence for Chicago again. Ive been following a similar approach ever since I mostly
curate film/video programs in relation to gallery exhibits at Gallery400; the shows are related to
whatever is up, and I screen the programs in the gallery space in an effort to physically bridge the gap
between contemporary art and experimental media.
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7 Question Interview with Ben Russell, Chicago-based Artist

After a few years of doing programs like this, I had my first solo show and suddenly realized that my
curatorial approach was a mirror to my practice stylistically all-over-the-place but conceptually
coherent. Ive since come to see it as an important piece of my practice on the whole it serves as a
vehicle for sorting out my relationship to the world, to art, to media and vice versa.
Last year I started a gallery space in my apartment called BEN RUSSELL with fellow artist-curator
Brandon Alvendia. There wasnt much money to support the sort of film/video curating Id been doing
in Providence (where I was funded by Brown University and state arts grants) and I felt quite
comfortable in what I could do with it, so I decided to move into terrain that I was more uncertain about,
a space that truthfully kind of freaked me out. Brandon and I made a set of rules and restrictions about
how we would exhibit work, decided to have 5-person group shows with each classically-defined
medium represented, and determined that wed use the letters from ben russell to determine the
themes. Weve had 8 shows since we started BEER, BLUENESS, and LESSEN were the best of the
lot.

Let Each One Go Where He May, 135 min, 16mm, color, sound, 2009
(7) Seven irrelevant questions:
(A) Do you own a laserdisc player and laserdiscs?
Nope, but when I was in high school I babysat for a family who had CONAN on laserdisc, and I would
watch it once the kids were asleep. Wouldve been better to just watch that disc spinning, probably.
(B) What two colors look best together?
Blue + Orange
(C) Name something you hate; name something you love.
Headaches! Always my right eyeball getting stabbed through the back. Optical illusions.
(D) What is your favorite Hollywood action movie?
ALIENS.
(E) What is your favorite alcoholic beverage?
Whisky on the rocks, as an Old-Fashioned, or styled after the Manhattans my father drinks nightly.
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7 Question Interview with Ben Russell, Chicago-based Artist

(F) Write seven words on Falcos Rock me Amadeus.

Amadeus Amadeus Oh Oh Oh Oh Amadeus
(G) What have you been listening to lately?
ZZ Pot, Lil Waynes NO CEILINGS mixtape, Ministry (only for about 5 songs, though), Lichens, and
a Nigerian psych rock compilation from the 70s. Just placed an order for NO MAS by Javelin, an
amazing South African Shangaan electro compilation, Major Lazer, and three albums worth of field
recordings from Sublime Frequencies. I also just downloaded the new Gucci Mane mixtape, but its too
bad to be any good.
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_______ _______ _______
|\
/|\
/|\
/|
| +---+ | +---+ | +---+ |
|| ||| ||| ||
| |E | | |N | | |D | |
| +---+ | +---+ | +---+ |
|/_____\|/_____\|/_____\|

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More:
Ben Russells Website
Ben Russell on Vimeo
Ben Russells Gallery
Magic Latern Cinema
Let Each One Go Where He May on Cinema Scope

Related posts:
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.

UBS 12 x 12 Artist Talk: Ben Russell

A Music Video Like None Other: Black and White Trypps Number Three by Ben Russell
MAZES at the MCA, Chicago, Ben Russell and Joe Grimm
Video Clip: Let Each One Go Where He May by Ben Russell
Trypps #5 (2008) by Ben Russell (a sign of happiness)
Seven Question Interview with Will Reed, Brooklyn-Based Painter
Artist Interview: DINCA asks Rafal Rozendaal One Question

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