Elizabeth Manekin Interviewing Johnny Costa 1

John Nichols Brown Center

March 12, 2008
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Elizabeth Manekin: Alright. I think this is good.

Johnny Costa: We'll see.

Manekin: I'm Elizabeth, Manekin and I am interviewing Mr. Johnny

Costa and today is March 12, 2008, and we are in the John Nichols
Brown Center at Brown University.

Manekin: Alright.
Costa: That's my mother and her best friend. That's my brother and
his wife. That's something I put together.

Manekin: Alright. So this is an album you've created from your whole

life, some of it in Fox Point, some of it not.

Costa: Well-

Manekin: Your family mainly?

Costa: Mainly. That's my kids. That's when they’re- he's 47. She's 45.

Manekin: Now you said your parents were born in Fox Point.

Costa: Yup

Manekin: Where were their parents from? Were they born there as
well?

Costa: My. No. My grandmother was- my father's mother was- my

father's grandparents were born in the Cape Verde Islands, San
Nicolau. St. Nicholas.

Manekin: Ok.

Costa: My mother's father was born in Brava, Cape Verde Islands my

mother's mother was born in San Vicente. St. Vincent. Cape Verde
Islands.

Manekin: And when did they come to Providence?

Costa: My grandmother. My father's- my father, he came- My father's

parents came here about 1900, because they got married here in 19,
November 8th, 1903.
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Manekin: Ok.

Costa: At the Barker Playhouse was a church at the time. But they
had a- it was an Episcopalian Church. But, they were married by a
Congregationalist Minister. And my grandmother, my mother's parents
came here, oh, about I’d say about 1907, and they got married in 1909
at the Sheldon St. Church. That's a marriage license right there.

Manekin: Wow. And what did they do for a living? Do you remember?
Do you know?

Costa: My grandmother was a cook and a seamstress, and she did

pressing for a lot of people on Benefit St.- lawyers and judges. My
grandfather was a teamster. He was so light, they didn't know he
wasn't, they didn't know he was Cape Verdean or Black. So he became
a teamster. Unfortunately, he got hit. He got run over by one of the
wagons that, low boys, they call them- horse and buggy- in October
1911, and he died June 1912. My mother was born March 11, 1912.
Never got to know her father. And he kept, well they-he had gangrene
and he didn't want to be a one-legged man, so he just let it go and
died. But he was only 31 years old.

Manekin: And so-

Costa: My father's mother. My father's father was a fisherman. He

worked on whalers. He was a-- I'm not really sure what he did but he
made most of the sweaters- he knit. He made all the sweaters for the
guys and hats on the ship, on the whalers.

Manekin: And he was a whaler, did they go back and forth to-

Costa: From New Bedford. Out of New Bedford.

Manekin: Ok.

Costa. From New Bedford. Down in New Bedford. They lived on

Wickenden St. I don't know, about 10 years. And then they moved to
Rochester, Massachusetts over down by the Cape. And then they
couldn't take none of that country folk so they came. They ended up
coming back here- my grandmother never got used to this country.
She was back and, she must've made 8 trips back and forth to the
Cape Verde Islands. And they left in 19- 1930, 1935. No, wait a
minute- 1935. Early ‘35. And never came back after that trip. And
they died around 1946. Both from sugar diabetes. They died 10 days
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apart. In San Nicolau. St. Nicholas.

Manekin: So, there-- I've seen and read that there was a large Cape
Verdean population in Fox Point and in Providence even as early as --
sort of the 1930s,1900s. Your grandparents still wanted to go back?
Did they-

Costa: Back and forth.

Manekin: They went back and forth all the time.

Costa: Yep. My grandmother, she, she-- every other kid was born in
the Cape Verde Islands.

Manekin: Ok.

Costa: My father when he was 2 years old he ended up going back

there, and stayed a while and he when he came back, he couldn't
speak English. And but he learned and he spoke English well, you
know, read and write.

Manekin: And did your parents have a lot of siblings? You said that
they alternated-

Costa: Uh, no. My mother, my mother's family only had two: my

mother and my uncle George and my grandparents had 3 boys and 2
girls-- my father's family. One of the boys died young, and they ended
up with two boys and two girls.

Manekin: And did they all live around here as well?

Costa: Well, my Uncle John, my Aunt Antonia, my father Tony lived in

Providence and my Aunt Anna lived in New Bedford.

Manekin: Did you go to New Bedford a lot as a child growing up?

Costa: Yes we did.

Manekin: You did.

Costa: To visit our- In 19, 1948 my father got hit by a, a car in Harlem,
New York that crippled him for life. While he was in the hospital-- he
got hit on a VJ day 1947-- and we were back and forth we'd spend 3 or
4 weeks in a, during vacation in New Bedford. And 3 or 4 weeks during
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vacations also other vacations in New York City in the Bronx. So we
were a, we were always traveling kids, and we loved it.

Manekin: Do you, what do you remember most or what is your

fondest memory of sort of growing up in Fox Point? And was that
different when you went to New Bedford or when you went to New
York?

Costa: My, my big, greatest fun was going to the Boys Club. Great
fun. Learned how to swim when I was 9 years old. Could play
basketball, baseball- every sport was there. And the Boys Club had
running hot water and a pool. So, at home we didn't have running hot
water and one of the house we lived in you had to go down to the
basement, down to the cellar to go to the bathroom. So, needless to
say, if the only thing you had was a tub, if you wanted to take a bath,
after 9 years old I knew where the Boys Club was. Had a shower. We
weren't allowed to walk Benefit St., but we could walk South Main to go
to the Boys Club.

Manekin: Why didn't, why weren't you allowed to walk Benefit St?

Costa: Well, it was, they said that there were people who used to
kidnap kids and everything, but it wasn't true. The truth was, there
was a lot of-- a big gay part, population on Benefit St.-- and that sort of,
the old-timers they could invent stories to scare the hell out of you,
keep you away from an area. But as we got 12, 13 we played right
across the street from here. And right over there. The house over
here.

Manekin: Ok.

Costa: We used to swing off the wall down into Wells St. I don't know
if Wells St. is still there-

Manekin: I don't know Wells St. It might not be.

Costa: It might be.

Manekin: So just past Benefit St.?

Costa: No. There's Benefit, and then there's a little street.

Manekin: Ok.
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Costa: That's Well's St. And then South Main. Yep. We used to play,
oh, we had fun. We played baseball, cowboys. There was a song
written by the intruders- a do-op group in a- I forget what the name of
the song is, “Cowboys to Girls.” We played cowboys in the daytime
and go chase girls at night.

Manekin: And at what. How old were you when were playing cowboys
and chasing girls?

Costa: 11, 12, 13, 14, 15.

Manekin: Ok.

Costa: Yep.

Manekin: And the girls clearly weren't at the Boys Club. Where did
you-

Costa: No, we'd have to go up Lippitt St. On the Eastside of

Providence. The lower east or whatever you call it.

Manekin: Ok.

Costa: And we went up there, but they, the guys used to try to beat
us up but-

Manekin: Which guys?

Costa: From the other section. The Eastside section. We were never
afraid of them, so- we Fox Point kids were always in good shape. We
swam all the time, played ball, because we always had the gym and
the pool.

Manekin: Right.

Costa: So we were in great condition.

Manekin: What, what, what about the Fox Point girls? Where were
they?

Costa: Well, they were our sisters! We were all brought up like one
family, you know? I could go over your house and eat anytime.
Anybody's house. You walk in and, especially on Saturdays, they'd
make a Cape Verdean dish called monchupa. It would be a -- whew-- 5
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gallon pot, 6 gallon big pots. And they say, 'bocada, come here, you
want to eat?' 'Yes ma'am.' …And they put it with bread and crackers.

Manekin: What is in monchupa?

Costa: It's samp, with all kind of different beans with a pig feet, pig
tail, pig ears. And, once in a while people put a shank of beef in it.
And it used to be the cheapest meal to make- now it would cost you-
shit, 60, 70 dollars to make a good one. You know, years ago it was
nothing it was, oh it was, sometime, years, they used to give pig tails
away on Canal St. And pig ears. There's people went and grabbed
them out of the bucket and up-- then they started charging.

Manekin: And, did, were the Cape Verdeans concentrated in one area
in Fox Point?

Costa: We were like from John St. to a- Tockwotten going down toward
the free- well, 95, I-95. And Tockwotten was across. There was a
boulevard we called it-- that's where 95 crossed the Boulevard. And
my grandparents lived there for a while, Tockwotten St. And from a,
South Water to a, Governor. That was our little- that was our domain.
Oh, we ran it. It was pretty good. I think there was about 500, 500
and- this is just a guess. 560 Cape Verdean families.

Manekin: Wow.

Costa: And everybody had kids. And if we had stayed in this area, we
would have been a powerhouse in Rhode Island. In Providence. But,
when they started breaking it up, and we started going wherever, I
ended up in Olneyville, some of my friends still live in the Southside.

Manekin: When was that?

Costa: In the ‘60s. ‘62, 3, 4, 5 up in there. Everybody just started

scattering, going different, moving to different. People were buying
houses, we're going to renovate them and you can move back in; that
was a good lie. Worked for a while. And that's it.

Manekin: Did-- jumping back a little-- when you went to school, was it
sort of a-- did the Cape Verdean stick together or was it a-

Costa: Well, when we went to Arnold Street it was Cape Verdean, a few
Irish, and a lot of Portuguese. And Thayer St., same thing, because
they were close together. And when we went to Nathan Bishop, that
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changed because there was everything. There were Jewish kids, there
were everything-- Italians, no French, Italians, Blacks, Cape Verdeans.
That's about it.

Manekin: Did, did you ever feel discriminated against?

Costa: Always. Always. We- there were certain things you could do
and certain, like if we were walking to school, it was no problem, but if
we went in that same area up near Brown Stadium-- Nathan Bishop
Junior High School-- off hours, you were in trouble. They'd run you out
of there. Or lock you up. They'd walk you-- you know, make you walk
out and the police car would come, you know, at 2 miles an hour just to
make sure-- until you got to Doyle Avenue and then the hell with you,
he'd let you go.

Manekin: Did you feel that way in Fox Point ever? Outside of your-

Costa: No. No. Not around. As long as we stayed in our little cliques,
we felt ok. We were tough kids, we were, you know-- someone would
give us any stuff we'd fix them up, you know?

Manekin: Were most people in your clique Cape Verdean?

Costa: All. Yep.

Manekin: How was your relationship with the Portuguese community

in Fox Point?

Costa: Off and on. Off and on, you know. They kind of let you know
you weren't welcome everywhere. There were clubs-- there's the
Portuguese Club right here on Sheldon St. we weren't allowed to go in
there until…I don't go in there, I don't drink, so. I don't go in any. Not
that I never drank. I don't now, anyway. They'd let you know if you
weren't welcome.

Manekin: And how about with the Black community? Was there
tension between the Cape Verdean-

Costa: There was tension between the Cape Verdean. Yep, they used
to call us- my nickname was Portuguee Costa. And, you know, they'd
let you know you're not one of them but you're still welcome to a
certain point, more than other places. And we've had a lot of fights,
you know, with the Black community, Portuguese Community, Irish
community yes-- we had some good ones-- good fights. You know,
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gang fights they were, not gang fights they have now, they were fist to
fist.

Manekin: Were you in a gang?

Costa: Oh yes.

Manekin: What was it called?

Costa: Well we didn't-

Manekin: Or did it have a name?

Costa: We didn't have a name, it was just a bunch of kids, everybody

lived on South Main St. but me, I lived on Sheldon St. And it was the
South Main St. gang. We walked down here and we'd go out over the
city. We'd go anywhere we wanted to, never afraid of anybody.

Manekin: Was it mainly boys at the Boys Club or just a -

Costa: No boys- we all- everyone went to the Boys Club. You had no
alternative. You had to go to the Boys Club. It was part of your life.
That was a big part of our lives. Until I was- when I went to the service
at 17, I was still going to the Boys Club. And when I used to come
home on leave, I'd still go to the Boys Club. And years later, I refereed
basketball for the Boys Club, and did, you know, work there for a while
as a volunteer- never took money. As a volunteer, and then I got into
some problems and I just stopped going.

Manekin: The Boys Club got into problems?

Costa: I got into problems, I had other, you know, alcohol and drug
problems so then I just stopped going completely.

Manekin: And what, when was that around?

Costa: When I got into problems? That was 60, oh, 60, 61 until 71 and
at 71, I never had another drink or did anything drugs. But, I still
smoke cigarettes.

Manekin: Congratulations, though- on the rest of it. So, maybe we

can jump back a little bit to when you went to the service. What was
that switch like after leaving Fox Point and going, going away?
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Costa: I'm lucky, I'm an easy going guy, you know, I went in the
service and I met a couple- a guy from New York City, Glencove, Long
Island, Norman Barnes was the name we called him, Junior Barnes--
and we got to be friends. Modesto Barboza from the Bronx, and we got
to be friends. That was in basic training and then I was in infantry
training, my second 8 of infantry training, a friend of mine from here -
lived right on John St.- Danny Lopes, we ended up together and when
we shipped out of here to go to Fort Riley, Kansas. He went with me
and we ended up in different companies. I ended up in the medics and
he ended up in the infantry and, but it was, I make friends easy. I'm
not looking for a big thing out of life. Just to let me live and I'll let you
live. Life is great fun, believe me. And I stayed 3 years to the day. I
got discharged on my birthday, matter of fact, in 1958.

Manekin: And were you in Kansas the whole time, or-

Costa: Kansas, Colorado most, and when I, I went to mountain

training in Colorado and I swam for the first division in the army. Two
summers, summer of ‘57 and ‘58, and I got discharged in September
1958.

Manekin: Now, I know you, was your brother in the service as well?

Costa: Oh yes, he was in intelligence. He spoke Spanish, Russian,

Czechoslovakian and a few others.

Manekin: And this was Ernie-

Costa: Yes, my brother Ernie. Great guy. My best friend.

Manekin: And was he part of the South, South Ben- South Main-

Costa: No. Ernie was a loner. He, he hung out by himself most of the
time. Him and a kid, Roy Clemens. Ernie used to always want to be a
cop, but his eyes were bad. At that time, they didn't take- people with
bad eyes and he talked Roy into being a cop. Roy was on the force 22,
23 years. Ernie was always the guy in the library. And, looking for
adventure and he was always working. God Bless him. His- one of his
first job was shining shoes, we all shine shoes. And I still have the
shine box in my closet. Believe me. And- he went to work for Western
Union.

Manekin: And- is that in Providence area? Was that downtown?

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Costa: Providence area. The whole Providence area. He knew every
street. Cross street, and- they used to call them 'all day suckers'
because he was on the bicycle riding-

Manekin: What did they call him?

Costa: They called people who worked for the Western Union, they
call them all day suckers because they were out all day riding the
bicycles here and there and- because you had to have a bicycle to
deliver the-I'm trying to remember where he went from there but he
was there a long time- I can't- he might've gone in the service at, from-
he had to have another job. I can't remember right now. Because he
went in the service. We graduated from Central. He was 18. Boom.
June. Went to the service two days later.

Manekin: Did he- did he go to college after that?

Costa: Well, he went to the service he stayed- I guess 3 years and

then he went to Michigan State University and he- took him a while to
get through Michigan State, because in the meantime he met a
woman, his wife, and made babies, and the baby, you know, got to
feed the baby and he dropped out and become a mailman. He worked
at Michigan School for the Blind, he got to be good friends with Stevie
Wonder- Stevie Wonder was a little boy though, a young boy- 9, 10, 8,
9-

Manekin: I love Stevie Wonder.

Costa: Real nice kid, nice person. And he met a few people, you know,
blind people, Stevie Wonder likes to shoot basketball. If he hit the rim
he could tell how close he was on the backboard. And he was a janitor
and then he went to deliver mail. Then he went to work for
Oldsmobile. He didn't stay there long.

Manekin: Do you remember when he came back to Providence or

back to Fox Point?

Costa: Only stayed 3 years. ‘71- no he didn't stay 3 years. 30 months

about. When he came back, he was- wait, let me see-- he was working
at Michigan State, teaching- police administration and he applied for
the job here, he got it, as Director of Security at Brown University.
Stayed here a while about 3 years, 30 months, bought a house on Ivy
St. on the Eastside off of Hope St. His wife didn't like Providence.
Period. She's from-she was born in Mississippi, raised in Muskeegan,
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Michigan. Settled in- family finally settled in Lansing, and she was
working for the state of Michigan. And when they came here, she
couldn't get a decent job. And she-

Manekin: Just because there weren't jobs available, or-

Costa: There weren't any jobs. Just, there was- I don't know. That's a
good question. I don't know. But she couldn't get what she wanted
and she left. She just picked up went and Ernie stayed and it's- then
he sold the house and then he left. And he went to- Newburg New York
as a- assistant police commissioner. He stayed there about 2 years.
And a job came up board of education in Detroit in the school
department they have this- school department has its own police force,
and it has more policemen than the city of Providence has on their
police force the city. And he became assistant director of- security. But
then that did a- that- that's another story. Anyway-

Manekin: It's quite a story. Is- do you think it -- was it typical for a
Fox Pointer? Did many people leave or-

Costa: No. We were the only family-- One of the only families that-

Manekin: Moved around-

Costa: We were ready to go, anytime.

Manekin: Why do you think that was?

Costa: I don't know- My father, he was, he worked on the colonial

line, it was a-- used to go from here to New York back and forth One
day they was off and they'd come back and it was- that was the name
of it colonial- passengers get on it, freight would get on it. And they'd
go and he-- used to go back and forth to New Haven and you-- he'd go
somewhere but when he could, before his leg's got messed up but-

Manekin: Did you have other siblings? Other than Ernie?

Costa: My sister, Jean. She's a- she lives in Seekonk. She's, she's

been a registered nurse for- god- 1960, 8, ‘64. She became a nurse.

Manekin: And is she older or younger than you?

Costa: She's the baby.

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Manekin: She's the baby. Were you very protective of her?

Costa: Yes. Oh yea. You know that. But- she- she hold her own, she
holds-- believe me. She's alright. Yea. She -- right now, she works for
the city of providence registration something. She registers kids for
school, makes sure they get all their shots. She was a school nurse.
First, she worked at Lionen Hospital for about 17 years, in the
operating room. Then she went to Rhode Island Hospital to the
operating room. And then she-- this job came up and she just left.

Manekin: So when was that, when did she leave Providence or she-

Costa: Which one? She- my sister?

Manekin: Yes.

Costa: She's still in Providence. She lives in Seekonk.

Manekin: Seekonk.

Costa: No difference. Not to me.

Manekin: How about Fox Point? Did she leave in-

Costa: She left fox Point in- ‘66 or 7.

Manekin: Is that when a lot of people were leaving, you said-

Costa: Well, her husband got drafted. He came in the navy with
Vietnam, and she went to South Carolina when my mother was still
living there- she was staying with my mother. That was about 67.

Manekin: And you got, you said you got back to Fox Point in ‘61-
right?

Costa: ‘59. Left in ‘61.

Manekin: Oh, ‘59. Ok.

Costa: I got back here in September 19- September 20th I got- from
Kansas. I got here. It was- I think it was a Sunday. Saturday or
Sunday. Took two days by train.

Manekin: Did you feel like it had changed when you got back?
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Costa: Well, I almost got in a fight with the cab driver. I got out of
the- we got- the train stopped in Providence, Union Station, and I got in
the cab and he's taking me to Transit Street, and he was-- he didn't go
up South Main, they had changed South Main to one-way, and I didn't
know there was a freeway there. You know to get- and when he went
up, and he's going down South Water, I say 'Hey, wait a minute. You
know, I pay a buck and quarter,' you know. 'I know how to-' He said,
'wait a wait a minute. It's changed.' He shut the meter off-- nice guy--
I was ready to fight, I didn't care. And he drove me around just to show
me the change and how- oh I was- I wasn't happy.

Manekin: Why not?

Costa: Because that South Main St. exit- that was a park.

Manekin: Do you remember what it was called?

Costa: We used to call it-- we called it Colored People's Park, because

that's the only people that hung out there, all us people of color. So it
was Colored People's Park.

Manekin: Do you know what other people called it?

Costa: I have no idea. Lou knows the name of it-

Manekin: Where was it?

Costa: Right. If you went down Transit St., and you took a left, and
you went 20 feet and crossed the street, you'd be in the park. That's
right where that ramp comes down. And it went all the way to- South
Water. Or South Main St. It used to- Wickenden St. was on this side-

Manekin: Right-

Costa: The park broke it up and South Main was on the other-

Manekin: It's not Burnside Park, is it?

Costa: No, that's downtown.

Manekin: That's up- ok.

Costa: That- Lou knows the name of it. He told me and I've forgotten.
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Might be another Burnside Park for all I know. And, when we were kids,
we used to have dances. You know, singing groups, do-op groups used
to come to Providence. And every Labor Day, we'd say, 'ok, when we
get out of-' There were moonlight dances. Well- we were inside, but
the sunrise- we'd walk up from downtown, the arcadia, where the
Strand Theatre was downstairs and- the Arcadia was upstairs, we'd
leave there on Washington St and walk down- Richmond St. We'd
always come this way through the city instead of walking all the way
down Richmond to the Point. We'd come- because we felt safer coming
down South Main St., and we walked down the park, and we'd wait
until the sun came up. And then we'd go home and go to bed. That
was a big deal, every labor day.

Manekin: And that was before you went in the Service? After?

Costa: That was before. Yep. I lived on Traverse St. then, I was the
closest. The other guys had to walk back down South Main to go home
and I - yep. That was a big deal. We'd just sit there and talk and sing,
we always sang-

Manekin: What did you sing?

Costa: Do-op songs. All-

Manekin: All do-op?

Costa: Yes, from the- that's my hobby. My biggest hobby. I collect all-
I've got almost everything that was made at that time.

Manekin: Was the music scene pretty- pretty big in Fox Point?

Costa: Oh, we had great musicians. Great, great musicians come out
of Providence. Wouldn't leave Providence. God's honest truth.

Manekin: Did they make a living by being musicians?

Costa: They were all Stevedores. 99% were Stevedores. There were
a couple of guys here-- 2 or 3-- one was called Tommy, Tomas, we
called him, Tommy Remos, played the base. Duke Ellington wanted
him to come and play with him. But he won't leave Fox Point. South
Main St., we always stay there. Murphy, a guy named Johnny Santos,
we called him Murphy-- great guitar player-- you sing it once, he'll play
it. All by ear. And he could read music. But if you- wouldn't leave
South Main St., lived on Transit St. Wouldn't-
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Manekin: And the kind of music they'd play, it was do-op, it was-

Costa: Anything. They played jazz, Cape Verdean, do-op. They

played anything.

Manekin: Did you ever ask them why they wouldn't leave?

Costa: No.

Manekin: No?

Costa: No, they were older than us. You didn't ask too many
questions- you - there wasn't- older folks, you know, they had a way,
you know-- if they wacked you, and you went home, there goes
another wacking. Because you did something wrong. And we never
could understand we'd be having fun down here-- you know, it was
clean fun, but you know-- my time, everything was by the book. And if
you did something, say here on Power St., no telephones, no nothing,
and you could damn near run home. And when you got home, your
mother knew. With no telephone.

Manekin: What kind of mischief did you get into?

Costa: Breaking windows, or going into the- there used to be, we

called then 'haunted houses.' They were abandoned houses on south
Main St. There were a bunch of them. And we'd go in there and we'd
go to another place and get a chair and put in- we made little
apartments out of them and-- we'd go over somebody's house and take
candy. Never, no- no big- our biggest problem was fighting. We didn't
care, you know- we didn't take nothing from nobody.

Manekin: Would you say that- who were most of the fights with? Or
just sort of with anyone-

Costa: Anybody. Anybody. But it was, mostly- 99% of them were

from other -- people from other sections. You know, like- we- the
people that lived on that side of Governor, going toward Gano, Ives--
there were, to us they weren't Fox Pointers.

Manekin: What were they?

Costa: They, they were outsiders. This is Fox Point. To us.

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Manekin: Were they, were they Portuguese? And Cape Verdean?

Costa: Yep. Portuguese. Very few Cape Verdean lived down that way.
Very few. And they didn't all come to the Boys Club, either, so that
meant they weren't Fox Pointers. You couldn't come to the Boys Club,
you weren't a Fox Pointer.

Manekin: What if you were a girl?

Costa: Once a week. Oh, we didn't- we went to school with the girls,
but we didn't mingle with them much. Ours were Eastside, Westside,
west downward. Them were the girls we'd go visit.

Manekin: So, 'Westside', what they call the Westside now?

Costa: That would, that would be. Yep. It would be-- let me see--
Caning Court, there was a project up there, Broad St., Elmwood
Avenue, all the way up to Waldorf St. and Potters Avenue. Up in-- that
was West Elmwood. Potters Avenue and Waldo and Wadsworth- can't
remember the other one- can't remember the name of them streets-
Ales Street. Yes, we spent a lot of- we did a lot of walking…Nobody had
a car. We did a lot of- we'd meet, right in front of the Boys Club, we'd
say 'where we going today.' Easter Sunday was Roger Williams Park,
automatic. We'd all meet here and walk to Rodger Williams Park. Walk
around the park, come back, and, know, zig zag in and out of the
streets through Providence.

Manekin: In your, in your dressy clothes?

Costa: All dressed up and then finally get home-- I got a picture of
Easter Sunday in here somewhere-- one Easter Sunday- yes, we were-

Manekin: So these are all pictures of your family?

Costa: This is family, and friends- here's Easter Sunday-

Manekin: Oh wow-

Costa: That's me-

Manekin: Very handsome.

Costa: Joe Montero, Joe Britto, Manny Rochen, Tony Delgado, myself,
Tyrone Johnson-- he's a minister now-- think that's Randy Rose, he
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passed away recently, and he passed away-- Cero, Delgado-- and
Randy Rose.

Manekin: Now, did they, did-

Costa: That was all the gang.

Manekin: That was your crew?

Costa: Part, part of the gang-that's only part of it-I don't know if I have
the rest of the crew. Yep-- he's some more of us. But this is-- I was
about 9 years old there, 10 years old.

Manekin: And that's at the Boys Club?

Costa: Yep. Right in front of the Boys Club. There was a step that
everybody took pictures there.

Manekin: Now, out of the gentlemen on, in the first picture, did they
stay in Fox Point, or-

Costa: They stayed until the- he lived on Well's Street, over here-
Traverse St., John St., South Main St., Benefit St.-- 422--Benefit St. way
down the - across the Boulevard, and he lived on South Main. 265.

Manekin: And then they moved in the ‘60s?

Costa: Yep. Everybody just gone, now. He- he ended up in- I don't
know- a second to recall it-- Alabama Avenue. Over there. Going up
Allens Avenue? I'm not even sure what they call that section. He
ended up in Pawtucket. Cranston. East Providence. Now Riverside.
West Elmwood. Southside. And he passed away, they both passed
away. Cero ended up in Pawtucket but that's before he passed away.
Yes, that's- just part of the crew there was-let me see- yes- that's the
crew that's- us four. We always, everywhere we- one went, the other
one went, it was just- no one went anywhere without the other one. It
was just one of them things.

Manekin: Were they with you when you met your wife?

Costa: Yep.

Manekin: Where did you meet your wife?

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Costa: This wife. No, not this one- I've been married twice.

Manekin: Ok.

Costa: My first wife, yes. We were- I'm- I was with- his wife was from
Fox Point, his wife was from East Providence. He never got married,
but his girlfriend's from North Carolina. But, we all- you kind of had to
get the approval, you no what I mean? To- check it out, we'd go out to
eat or something, then go to a nightclub. Say, 'she's alright, she's
alright' or 'eh- you better watch out.' You know, they say 'you got to
watch out' you didn't do it no more.

Manekin: How did you meet your first wife? Was she a Fox Pointer?

Costa: No. She was from East Providence, originally, and then she
moved to Hartford Avenue, Olneyville. I met her at Roger Williams
Terrace. I was always up the terrace. Loved the weather. I had just
gotten- I had been out of the service not long, and I was on- I worked
for Salty Sea Packing Company. They made chowder and, mostly
chowder.

Manekin: What did you do there?

Costa: I was a labeler and a grinder. I'd grind- I'd open quahogs and
I'd grind it down so we could get in the meat and we did so much of
that-- we'd do that for about two weeks-- and then we'd go inside, in
the cannery, it was two different buildings, in the cannery and then as
they put the, cooked the chowder and put it in the cans, seal the can
and it would come down the ramp, and then we would put labels on
them, and I became a labeler. And put labels on. That was a big- oh
that paid a lot of money. Dollar thirty-five, don't play with me-

Manekin: Was it a lot of Fox Pointers working over there, or-

Costa: All Fox Pointers.

Manekin: All Fox Pointers. Mainly Cape Verdean, or-

Costa: 99, 92% Cape Verdean. Believe me. And- my mother's

sister's- my grandmother's sister's husband, that's how I got the job.
Grandmother's sister's husband. My aunt. Great Aunt. He called me
one day in March- January-- and said, 'you want to work?' I said 'yea'
and he said 'meet me tomorrow on Gano St., Corner of Gano and
Wickenden. I met him there, we walked down through where the
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boathouse, Brown boathouse is now. And I walked in and the guy gave
me the job.

Manekin: So it's over there, that's where the plant is? Over on-

Costa: On Gano. We worked October to May- oh, what a job- and get
laid off. And then you could collect unemployment. The whole
summer. Oh, what a- that's living large.

Manekin: How long did you work there?

Costa: Three years. And then I got married and you've got to work for
the kids and- and- and I went back to- I had gone to school -- to Central
High School-- for printing, and I went back to printing. And- did that
for-

Manekin: So your first wife was ok with the Fox Point boys?

Costa: Oh yes, yes- she had to be, you know. Yep.

Manekin: And your current wife, Nancy?

Costa: Ok-

Manekin: Did you meet her around here as well?

Costa: I met her at Rhode Island Hospital. She was a Phlebotomist.

And, I used to take my mother once a month because she took
cumadin. So you had to go- and she was the phlebotomist, that's how
I met her. But I had been divorced in between, I had gotten- a little
problems, but anyway-I ended up working in nightclubs-‘94, ‘95, ‘96 to-
0- no no, ‘92. ‘92 I quit, I become a chauffeur for a strip club. God's
honest truth. People, take people from Broad St. to 12th Avenue in
New York City.

Manekin: Oh-

Costa: At night. And they'd go to Pure Platinum, that was the name of
the club, the strip club. The most exclusive club in the United States,
at that time. There's one in Vegas.

Manekin: When was this?

Costa: ‘90, part of ‘91, ‘92 and part of ‘93. And I dropped the guys
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off, park if I- if they'd let me park-- some guys are tough. Jersey and
New York. Connecticut drivers too, they won't give you a spot. But, I
used to bully anyway, and I'd get my spot. Some guys they have a
good time, they want to stay over. They'd have to pay for the hotel.
They put me up in the Ed- Edison Hotel, I think it's on 39th St- I can't
remember-and they had to pay for the parking. It was 30 38 dollars
every 12 hours you were parked, and-- but I always parked for that one
12- you know, that only period in between-we'd end up going back to
that club or back to Providence. I remember going up there, spending
one day and then having to come back the same night at 4 or 5 o'clock
in the morning, I had been out since 8 o'clock, driving up.

Manekin: Now, these guys-- these guys you were driving-- they were
not from Fox Point?

Costa: No, no, no. These were fairly well-to-do guys from different
parts of Rhode Island. I can't say what. That's confidential. Really
confidential.

Manekin: I respect that, yes.

Costa: You know- they were well-to-do. I did, I'd make some hundred,
hundred fifty dollar tip plus my regular pay. I was happy with it. Then I
met my wife, I said, I didn't have the urge to go get more money
anymore. And we moved in together, and we got- we left here one day
in September, August. Went to Vegas, I like Vegas- I always- hung out
with-I like to gamble, not going to lie to nobody. And we were in Vegas
and I said, 'Hey why don't we get married, the hell with it?' 'Ok.' That
easy.

Manekin: There you go.

Costa: We went down, we stayed at the Circus Circus. Went down,

asked the lady in the bus, says 'where can we get a marriage license?'
she says 'get in.' We got on the bus, she took us down--she was going
downtown anyway-- and she went out of her way and dropped us off
right in front of City Hall, I guess it was. She had to make a turn, she's
not supposed to do that, but anyway, she took us, and we-

Manekin: Got married.

Costa: and all told- oh we- there was a- we went back to Circus Circus,
and asked, asked the woman there, 'where can we get married?' and
she said 'right there, upstairs.' So we went upstairs, one floor, and he
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said, 'what time you want to get married?' 'How about 1 o'clock?' This
was 11.30. Went back 1 o'clock and the minister was there and he
said 'How long do you want the service?' I said, 'service? 8, 10
minutes tops.' He says, 'how's 7?' Shoot it. Ok. 7 minutes we got
married. But we had to go and get- there was a couple that got
married just before us and we grabbed them for best man and maid of
honor. And then we left. It was- I had on a t-shirt, sneakers-- not
sneakers, sandals-- and shorts that was it. Nice. We should have
taken pictures.

Manekin: And then you moved back to Riverside?

Costa: No, no, we moved back to- we were living in Pawtucket. That
was- ‘93. One day in ‘94, I made some money. And I said, 'what do
you think?' 'What are you talking about?' I said, 'why don't we move
to Vegas?' My wife said, 'you serious?' I said, 'yea.' Call the airlines,
we get an airline. Me, I met a guy, a friend of mine, in a nightclub I
was- I hadn't- I wasn't working there then, but he was, he said 'what
are you doing?' and I said, 'I'm going to Vegas.' He said, 'wait a
minute, I'll hook you up with this guy.' So, we get to Vegas and take
the cab from the airport, went to the hotel, and we stayed at Aladdin
that time. The guy come and picked us up and said 'what do you want
to do?' I said, 'I want to look for an apartment.' So we rode around, he
took us all, the whole day. Apartment hunting. Finally, we find what
we wanted. Two bedrooms. Two baths, complete. Second floor. A
condo. You rented, though. Big living room. Kitchen. $715 a month.
Good. We leave, come back here. Call the people. Tell the people we
were renting here, 'we're leaving September.' But we ended up leaving
October 25, 1994. Stayed there 9 years. Same apartment, never left.

Manekin: Wow.

Costa: Yep. In- but then in- ‘96, I had a massive heart attack. And
that's when they found out, I only had half a lung working- left working.
From being cute and smoking. And- it was- I didn't gamble as much, it
was fun, you know, and then one day in '03 my wife said, 'you know, I
think we should go back.' I said when you want to go? That easy.
September, ok-it was June. Called my daughter, my daughters, my
son, my daughter's husband. My youngest daughter, Marie, her
husband is, was a truck driver-- but he's a hell- he's a chef by trade--
he was driving a truck for a while. No problem then we hooked it up
and every- drove the furniture back and you know we. If I had money
for all the times I've moved, I'd be alright-
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Manekin: It's expensive.

Costa: I've moved a lot. Still moving. The apartment I'm in now-
renting a condo now and I'm ready to go. Been there too long, two
years.

Manekin: So out of all those places you've lived, where does Fox Point
rank?

Costa: Number one.

Manekin: Number one.

Costa: Anytime.

Manekin: Why is that?

Costa: Has to do with- it was just- you felt so safe here. All the time.
I don't care what time it was or what condition you were in. Been out
drinking, partying and everything, if you couldn't make it home, you
stop at someone's house. and you slept on the couch or they put you
to bed. They fed you, before they put you to bed. And no one knew
other than this area what was going on. It was just a- never again- we
met- when- In the 40s and 50s, Fox Point had any nationality but Laos,
Vietnam. The rest we had here. We've, you know, you didn't mingle
with them everyday, but you knew them. They had stores, or they
lived in the apartment house across the street, Sleighman's on South
Main St. And you got to mingle with everybody and you got to know
everybody. That's why when I leave, when I left town as a young guy,
nothing surprised me. We had murderers here, we had -- who you
knew-- and they went to jail. You had rapist, but we didn't deal with
them- when they came back home, they couldn't come here. Believe
me. Or molest- child molesters- they couldn't come back here or they
would really get hurt. Permanently. And you knew thieves and you
knew doctors and you knew every, you know, it was- a little bit of
everybody lived here.

Manekin: Were there certain places that you felt everyone- other
than the Boys Club- like where everyone would drink together, or
where everyone- were there bars that you went to, or-

Costa: 3 Lantern Bar, corner of Pike and- Brook.

Manekin: Ok. And it was mainly Cape Verdean?

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Costa: Yep. 99%. I'm trying to think. Well there was a- when I was
younger, though, I couldn't go, I-wasn't supposed to go in and drink but
I'd sneak into Bobby's Bar on Wickenden St. There were a bunch of
bars on Wickenden St. On the other side of the street, the South Main
St. side was Mellow's, there was Meelay's

Manekin: And did you feel comfortable going into all of them, or were
they segregated?

Costa: I could go in and sit anywhere, yes- it was all Cape Verdeans.

Manekin: Ok.

Costa: It was just the age difference. Guys my age at the time-
twenty, twenty-one years old, twenty-two- we hang out at Three
Lantern Bar. The older Stevedores, they hung out on Wickenden St.
because it was closer to where they were going to go to work. The old
timers- after, you know, in the ‘60s, late ‘60s, everybody ended up,
just before they started, everybody started moving out we all ended up
at the 3 lantern bar, all ages- 40, 50, 60, 70 year old guys, 80 year old
guys. And some of them didn't drink. They just came for the
friendship, you know, and hanging around- and, tell lies. And we'd sit
outside in the summer, we'd find a corner somewhere, buy a bag of
crabs and sit outside and eat crabs. Everybody- oh, fun- And if
someone passed away, boy, tough to say, it was like a banquet,
though. You go over there and you could eat for three days. And the
bodies were in the house, there wasn't- we didn't go to a funeral
parlors. When I was younger, there was no such thing as taking a body
to the funeral parlor. You took it to someone's house. My house-

Manekin: Was that in the Cape Verdean community, or-

Costa: Yep. Mostly Cape Verdean community.

Manekin: And is it a tradition, or-

Costa: It was. I was- no more, but. We had a big parlor. Living room.
We had bodies in there- we knew the people- but it wasn't our family.
People would be in and out all day, all night and there was always
liquor and food.

Manekin: Cape Verdean food?

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Costa: Cape Verdean food. And lots of cheeses. All kinds of cheeses.
And that would go on, the door never closed, someone always sat with
the body. Sometimes 5, 10 people, you walk in at 3 o'clock in the
morning there'll be 5 or 10 people. Talking and the day be- there were
3 days. The day before the body is buried, the night before the body
was buried, most of the family sat up with the body for company. 7
o'clock, 8 o'clock, the funeral director would come in and get the body
ready and some- I remember a body on the second floor at 135 Transit.
And this was no little woman. Boy, they paid hell bringing it down.
There was another one, down here on 4 Williams St., is it 4? On this
side of the street, I think it's 4. Is this an even number?

Manekin: This, I think is 53. I think.

Costa: Then it had to be 3 or 5. 5. It's on this side of the street, very

bottom of the hill. They got the body almost up into the house, and it
jammed. You know what they did? They flipped it. God's honest truth.
They had to flip it. And they got the body redone, and they coming
down, and you think they'd learn, they had to flip it coming down.
That's a true story- Oh, we used to laugh when we were kids, can you
imagine that? They couldn't- they didn't have no sense to put it
through the window. That's more work, though, it's easy to flip, you
know- I guess they say he won't feel no pain, he's alright, so- yep.
That was, down this side of Williams. I don’t' even know if there's a
house, I'm going to go look. I'm going to go look and see if Wells St. is
still there when I leave here.

Manekin: Do you ever go down Wickenden anymore? Or do you-

Costa: I go every Sunday. Because I go to church

Manekin: That's right-

Costa: on Sheldon St. and our parking lot is on the Wickenden St.
side.

Manekin: You've been going to that church for

Costa: My whole life. My whole life. Belong to that church-

Manekin: Now, a lot of the people that go there, were they- they were
from Fox Point, but-

Costa: They were Fox Pointers. See, Fox Point had, like I say, 500
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families. But only 39 of them families were Protestant. And that's
how- we- most of the Protestant kids are still alive. We were real- tight.
Tight. Because, it wasn't only Sunday school, we had Sunday school,
we had summer school, and most of the kids- even prot- Catholic kids
went to our Sunday school- our summer school, I mean. We have
things like- week after school was done, oh you were back in school.
Summer school. And you'd learn, you know, if you needed help in
math or English, whatever you needed help with. And- then it - it.. we
had- it was just like going to the gym. We'd go across the boulevard-
it's supposed to be Washington Park, but we call it Tockwotten Park.
There were two Tockwotten parks to us.

Manekin: Why did you call it that? Just because?

Costa: Because it was on Tockwotten St. And we'd go over there,

we'd play baseball and the girls would play volleyball and what did-
until- July or August. We had summer school and then the end of
summer school, they'd take us to a beach in New Bedford- oh boy, I
can't think of the name of that right now. And the church would
sponsor just about everything. Your parents would cook, you know,
sandwich and everything, but the church would sponsor the hot food
and the drinks and whoah- that fun. We'd have real busses, not - we-
the real cushiony busses when we went to New Bedford. Yep. Can't
remember the name of that beach. Great beach, had a raft, two rafts.
And 99% of us knew how to swim. From the Boys Club. That ends
that. And- yep. Everybody- I can't name two kids that didn't go to the
Boys Club. That I knew. I can't name one. That's the truth. I can
name two guys that couldn't swim but that was all, out of the bunch.
They just didn't want to get their hair wet, they're cute, so-

Manekin: And did they- they went to your church as well, or, not all of
them? Most Cape Verdeans were Catholic?

Costa: Yep. Except for 38 families. But, our church was always full in
the summer, because the kids didn't have anywhere else to go.

Manekin: Where did the other Cape Verdeans go to church?

Costa: Holy Rosary Church on Traverse St. Yep- it was- boy that was
good times. We lived right next door to the church, so there was no
excuse. Church is 51 Sheldon and we lived at 57 Sheldon. First ones in
church.

Manekin: Did you, was there a time when you were young that you
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didn't like going? Or you always liked it?

Costa: No. Always liked church. Church was never- I don't know, I get
good- I still do, get a good feeling coming out. I can go in the church
pissed off and I come out, I feel better. You know, someone told me,
said something I want to hear. Every other day, every other week at
church we, we go downstairs in fellowship hall and we eat. Nothing big,
you know, coffee muffins, and- a little breakfast. About 3 times a year
we have a-just a dinner, to have a dinner. And two guys do all the
cooking. 3 guys, they all- most of the times, the guys do all the
cooking at our church.

Manekin: And is it, is it like a Fox Point reunion, I mean is it most- or

is it new families from the area, or-

Costa: Yep. New families coming. Now they are. Well, when I was
gone for them years, I was going- a few different families came in since
then, you know- but they knew of us being- my brother was a minister
also, so, he he'd preach at our church every so often. That's how
everybody got to know us again. My sister stayed, she never left, you
know, permanently. And my mother, she was the oldest member of
the church when she passed away.

Manekin: When was that?

Costa: '01.

Manekin: Oh.

Costa: December 12, '01, she passed away.

Manekin: How old was she?

Costa: 89. Feisty. 89.

Manekin: Can't imagine that.

Costa: Yes- she was fun. Cuss you out in a minute.

Manekin: And did she live in this area up until then?

Costa: Somewhere- she left once, she went up Admiral St., up that
way. But she ended up- well, when she passed away she was living in-
that, Wickenden St., Fox Point Manor? She was so happy, she loved
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that place- I mean, she lived at 57 Sheldon, oh- I can't remember- 10-
18 Dove. We have a house. The house is still there, my sister owns it
now, I don't want anything to do with it or anything. My mother lived
there for quite a while. My uncle lived upstairs, my mother lived
downstairs. My got a chance to go to Fox Point Manor, one floor,
everything nice- she's- I can't remember what year she did that, god
dog- I could ask my sister. And she was so- she was so happy there.
Elevator- all her friends were on the 6th floor and the 7, 7th floor. And
one woman, she's still alive, she's about 99. Mrs. Arudro, she lived 4
doors down, and the woman that lived with my uncle moved out of
there, he went somewhere else, and this woman moved in upstairs she
moved right upstairs from my mother in Fox Point Manor- Yatutu
Parrera. I -- that's all I-- I don't know her first name, tell you. That's
what we called her 'Yatutu.' And she was a nice lady, she was a
seamstress for Morris Clothing for years and year and years- until her
eyes went. She must have been 75, 80 when she stopped being a
seamstress. And they'd all meet downstairs in the dayroom, whatever
you call it, at the Manor- good times.

Manekin: You said you didn't know her first name, that you called her
Yatutu. I've heard there were a lot of nicknames in Fox Point.

Costa: I left here, while I was in mountain training for- Camp Hale,
Colorado, and we went to Denver, there was a guy from Fox Point- he
lived on Pike St.- living in Denver. So the guy says, so I go to, I said I'll
go to a couple of nightclubs and that- I know he lived in Five Points in
Denver- I said, maybe I can find him. So I get in the- I walk up a couple
of stairs, walk in this bar-[claps] I don't know his name. Ramos. That's
all I know him. We call him Capasing.

Manekin: Capasing?

Costa: Big head, he had a big head. And- I said- I got us a guy- he's-
a- a- he's about this tall, brown skin. The guy says 'I know 30 people
like that.' Oh, we went on, and I had a couple of drinks and I leave.
That November, I came home, I see his brother, Tanas, guy who played
the base. I said to Tanas 'what's your brother's name?' He said,
Vicente- Vincent- he lived right upstairs from where I was. The build-
the bar I was in, he was right upstairs, and he owned a- cleaning- clean
offices and like that. If I had known that, the guy would've known who
I was talking about. Wasn't that sick? I'd laugh-

Manekin: And what was your nickname?

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Costa: I had a bunch, they called me Punk Feet.

Manekin: Punk Feet?

Costa: I got small feet.

Manekin: Me too.

Costa: My mother- my grandfather died, he had 4 and a half. My

mother's father. My mother had 5 and half. I'm big time, I got 7 and a
half. My- ended up- my brother and my family always called me Jason.
And my name, everybody called 'hey Johnny Costa.' Anywhere in this,
Rhode Island. They- they never called me Johnny or Costa. If they
don't call me Jason, it's Johnny Costa, the whole name. There's people,
there's a few people like that. Yep.

Manekin: Did Ernie have a nickname?

Costa: Professor. And he ended up a professor. He- when he, before

he retired he taught at Michigan State, University of Michigan, and
Wayne State right in Detroit, that was easier. I think I got his picture
when he graduated from divinity-

Manekin: Did any of the women have nicknames? Or the girls in Fox
Point?

Costa: I'm trying to think- that's my cousin- my second mother- that

lady took good care of me, boy- all my life. That kid there is a singing
group named 'Tavares.' They made a lot of- a lot of songs in the ‘70s,
disco era. Here's the Boys Club. That's where everybody took
pictures, sitting there. This guy used to be the minister of our church,
Mr. Rodrick. Charles Rodrick. He did a lot for our church. He was there
from-see, that's my brother's writing- one of the first- George Lima. He
was- an officer in the black regiment, one of the first- the first out of
Providence. That's Lou lou's kids. Lou's kids. That's Georgie, Monica
and her mother, and where the hell did I put that picture- this was-
that's a great picture. Club Ebony.

Manekin: Where's that?

Costa: New York City. This was in the ‘40s. It was a dance contest.
These two won it. Alice, she lived at 57 Sheldon, and he lived right
next door. Chupa. John Sanchez. They were- oh, great dancers. He
played the saxophone also.
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Manekin: And did they go to New York just for the contest?

Costa: Just for dancing, they went that day. And- Heffy- Alves. She's
from Alves Way right where Pike St. used to be. She's one of the
daughters. This guy here was a - Noah Roberts. Alice's husband. Alice
Britto's husband. Great athlete, born at the wrong time. He could hit a
baseball anywhere you want him to hit it. And as far- and he played
international soccer. Yep. Great guy. Big guy. About 6'3", 225 when
he was in shape.

Manekin: Who took those?

Costa: These? Someone in the Boys Club. That's Jerry Alves, that's-
Henry Fontes.

Manekin: When were those taken? About?

Costa: About- let me see.. 1958, ‘59.

Manekin: They're beautiful pictures-

Costa: That's all one family. Godsolves brothers. And that's the
director of the Boys Club, Jesse Resenmis. That's Joey Gonzal, great
swimmer. They lived at ‘57 Sheldon. Mother, two daughters. She
passed away, my buddy's wife, she's from Fox Point. Donny Tavas, he
died in a car wreck. Ringo Lopes and a friend of his from a- he got shot
up pretty good in Korea.

Manekin: Now did you make this book- when did you make this book?

Costa: Three years ago, four years ago.

Manekin: And they were pictures that you had, or

Costa: I have, I have more.

Manekin: you have them still-

Costa: I have more.

Manekin: And have you just collected them or was it a project you
knew you were going to make a-
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March 12, 2008
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Costa: No, I started- I had them for years- and I started putting them
in books together, they were here, there and you know, I could still got-
I got pictures I got to go home and look for. And they're laminated.
They're in great shape. They're new- oh, I don’t' know- There are- this
is my family. My kids. And them- are my grandkids. He's a broker.
That's- he's a singer. He's a computer guy. He's a cop, and she's a
bookkeeper. And his wife is sick.

Manekin: Where do they live?

Costa: Realto, California.

Manekin: Where's that? I don't know where Realto is-

Costa: Sixty miles south of Los Angeles.

Manekin: Great.

Costa: I got another daughter, she's in Deltona, Florida. These

pictures- that's my granddaughters-what the hell- I don't believe this-
that's Gregory Hines.

Manekin: Oh yes, the dancer-

Costa: Yep. He passed away. And this kid, he's a- he was a-well, he
sings he still sings. He met him in the street. Walking down the- 7th
Avenue and he said, 'Hey, Gregory, want to to take a picture?' He
crossed the street and took a picture.

Manekin: And that was in New York, not here-

Costa: Yep, yep, that's the picture-what the heck did I do with that-
oh, there's my brother, my sister and I- that was 19- let me see what I
can tell you- '02. '01 or '02. I hadn't moved back to Rhode Island yet.
That's my father.

Manekin: What did-

Costa: 19- oh, that's my father in the hospital. He was always in the
hospital.

Manekin: What was it because of-

Costa: He had a bone graft done. 1949, in Harlem Hospital. It was

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the first one done in the United States. Some guys flew in from Israel
to show how to do it.

Manekin: Huh.

Costa: And through no fault of their own- they did the best they could-
he got osteomielitis from it. Osteomielitis is a sickness that bones- they
break up into little pieces and they shoot out of your legs. And it's-
everything in here is dead. And it's a hell of an odor, if you don't keep
it clean all the time. The whole house will spell like somebody's dead
in the house. And- but he died of lung cancer.

Manekin: When was that?

Costa: September '65. Heavy smoker. A week before his 60, 59th
birthday. I think I moved back by this picture. My sister was about 6
months old in that-

Manekin: So do your friends and all of the people from the gang in
Fox Point, do you guys get together?

Costa: Oh yes, every so often. We're all in- well, two of us aren’t in
the best of shape. And the one guy's in pretty good shape and then
another one got sugar pretty bad, but-

Manekin: Got sugar. Is that, diabetes?

Costa: Diabetes, yes. That's my brother in divinity school. Yep. It's a-

me, my problems are- I don't breathe, you can hear me. If I get up, go
and I'm- stealing breath- you learn to live with it, you know. That's why
I drink so much water.

Manekin: Well, it's good for you.

Costa: I get dry. I dry up. I drink water all day everyday, thank god.

Manekin: Alright. Well, I think I'm going shut this off.

Costa: Ok.

Manekin: But if it's ok with you,

Costa: Go ahead-
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Manekin: we can keep chatting.

Costa: Yes, yes-

Manekin: Alright. This concludes the first interview with Johnny

Costa, Mr. Johnny Costa on March 12th, 2008. Thank you very, very
much.