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Aci 209 2007b-10 Fajardo P.R. Approved Minutes
Aci 209 2007b-10 Fajardo P.R. Approved Minutes
MINUTES
ACI 2007 Fall CONVENTION
Fajardo, Puerto Rico, October 16, 2007
Attendees
The meeting was called to order by Videla at 2:10 PM, who welcomed the attendees to the
meeting.
The following voting members offered apologies for not being able to attend the meeting: Zdenek
Bazant, Ian Robertson, and Jason Weiss.
2. Announcements
Next meeting will be on Monday, March 31, 2007 at the Hyatt Regency Century Plaza in Los
Angeles, CA.
Changes in membership:
The chair informed that there are no changes in voting membership.
ACI sent official notification to the Chairman for the appointment of Sungjin Bae, Susan
E. Bowers and Indrajit Ray as new associate members.
The committee roster was circulated and changes to the Postal Code of Al-Manaseer, telephone
numbers of Gardner and Videla, and e-mail address of Carreira were reported (see Attachment A).
Other announcements:
Al-Manaseer addressed the Committe asking ACI members to endorse and promote
attendance to Concreep 8 from Sept 30 to October 2, 2008 at Ise-Shima, Japan.
Novak moved to congratulate Mario Chiorino and John Gardner for their work in the well
organized and well attended, as well as for quality of the presentations in the three Sessions of
Structural Implications of Concrete Creep and Concrete Shrinkage, on Monday October 15 and
Tuesday October 16, 2007. Videla seconded. All members present voted in favor of
congratulating Chiorino and Gardner for their work.
Videla asked for review and approval of the minutes. Spelling of Al-Manaseer name was
corrected. Gardner moved, seconded by Al-Manaseer, to approve the minutes of the Atlanta 2007
meeting. All members present voted in favor of approving the Atlanta meeting minutes.
Status of reports:
Videla informed that no update was available on the revision of ACI 209.1R-05, since
McDonald could not attend the meeting.
Videla informed that the only three pending items in this reports are:
To include CEB90-99 models.
To express all the four models in SI units and US customary units.
To include numerical examples that will be prepared by Carreira once Videla finish the
units revision.
Videla suggested that the document, as revised to satisfy TAC, would be forwarded to TAC
in November
- ACI 209.3R-XX Time Dependent Effects in Concrete Structures.
Dilger informed that on Monday, October 15, 2007 there was an informal meeting attended
by Bazant, Chiorino, and Dilger to discuss the issues in this report on which they disagree.
They reached an agreement with Bazant on his contribution to the present document with
not previously included ideas not previously included on complex structures.
Dilger and Chiorino agreed on the architecture of the document and to substantially reduce
the document to at most 120 pages by sending some of the material to Appendices.
Following Dilger presentation, Chiorino discussed the content and structure of the
document from 3:10 PM to 3:40 PM (see Attachment C). A new section on the effects of
creep and shrinkage on high-rise structures will be included. This section will be prepared
by Carreira.
Videla informed of the availability on the ACI 209 Committee Web Site of the latest
versions of the ACI 209.3R draft documents prepared by Dilger and by Chiorino and
Sassone.
Videla informed that the results of this Web letter ballot were, 14 Affirmative, two
Affirmative with Comments and two Negative votes. This vote meets Rule and the 2/3
Rule. The negatives votes were from Bazant and Gardner.
The negatives votes from Bazant and Gardner were discussed in detail since they were
based on the idea that the existing document is outdated and should not be re-approved and
published.
* The Committee has failed for years to produce a revised document, and ACI 209 will
loose its spot in the Manual of Concrete Practice, MCP, and
* The Committee will finish ACI 209.2R-XX Report Modeling and Calculation of
Shrinkage and Creep of Hardened Concrete, approved by TAC this year 2007 and ACI
209.3R-XX Report Time Dependent Effects in Concrete Structures, by next year
2008.
Novak moved and Chiorino seconded to find Bazant and Gardner non-persuasive with the
understanding that the Committee will proceed appropriately with the completion of the in-
process ACI 209.2R-XX report by November 2007, and ACI 209.3R-XX report in year
2008.
Chairman Videla called for the vote. Eight voted Affirmative, one voted Negative, and
there were no Abstentions. The motion passes. The Negative vote was from Gardner.
It is remained to all members of the Committee for their cooperation to achieve the goals
implied by this vote.
No other business
6. Other Business
Dilger addressed the Committee on the Palau Bridge collapse. He stressed the importance of
collecting data on the design, geometry and properties of the bridge and its materials, as well as
the collapse mechanism, to analyze the collapse, its causes and how to prevent it from happening
again. The purpose is to make available the knowledge learned from this collapse to the
profession, as an instrument of learning.
Questions to ACI 209 posted by William Sherman and by Ahmad Rahimian and answers given.
The question by William Sherman was: According to Figure 2.3, a concrete mix with 564
lb/yd3 and with a w/c ratio of 0.45 would fall into the region noted as "outside range of
practicable concrete mixes". This seems contrary to normal practice. Perhaps the chart does
not account for the use of WRAs, but it would be helpful to clarify the discrepancy between the
chart and common mixes used.
Figure 2.3 was obtained directly from the paper "The Properties of Concrete Mixes" by
Blanks et al, published by ACI in April 1940. In Figure 4 of that study, the graph includes the
terms "outside the range of workable mixtures." Thus, the figure is a copy of an existing
figure. In 1940, a concrete mixture with 564 lb/yd 3 of cement and a w/c ratio of 0.45 would
have been considered not workable. ACI-209 will make sure that updates either remove the
wording or include a paragraph outlining that the work was conducted prior to the regular
use of water reducers.
The question by Ahmad Rahimian to S. K. Gosh received though Ronald G. Burg on October
1st, 2007 was: Dear SK, it seems there is typo in the ACI209 Eq. 2-9 & 2-10. This is the time
function for shrinkage, however the eq. is not a function of v/s (Vol. to Surface ratio) even
though section 2.5.5 explain that it should be. I check that against your paper with Fintel &
Iyengar and noticed your equation correctly accounts for it. I am asking you since you are
part the ACI 209, any comments?
Equations (2-9) and (2-10) apply to Standard Conditions when testing concrete for creep and
shrinkage since they are under Section 2.4 Recommended Creep and Shrinkage Equations for
Standard Conditions. In this case all the correction factors under Section 2.5 Correction Factors
for Conditions other Than the Standard Concrete Composition are equal to 1.0. They can not be
taken by themselves isolated from the rest of Chapter 2. They must be applied as recommended in ACI
209 Report and shown in the example. Please, refer to second paragraph in Section 2.4.
Therefore, they are OK as shown which is as developed by Dr. D. Branson.
Also for conditions other than the standards, Section 2.4 of ACI209R-92 Report states:The
shape and size effect can be totally considered on the time-ratio, without the need for
correction factors. That is, in terms of the shrinkage-half-time sh, as given by Eq. (A-3) by
replacing t by t/sh in Eq. (A-1). Also by taking = 1.0 and f = 26.0 exp[1.42 x l0-2 (V/S)] in Eq. (A-
1), where V/S is the volume to surface ratio, in mm. For V/S in inches use f = 26.0 exp[0.36(V/S)].
References 61, 89, 92, 98 and 101 consider the effect of the shape and size on both the time-ratio
(time-dependent development) and on the coefficients affecting the ultimate (in time) value of creep
and shrinkage.
7. Adjournment
A motion to adjourn was submitted by Videla and seconded by Chiorino All members present
voted to adjourn. The meeting adjourned at 4:05 PM.
Attachments:
Voting Members
Al-Manaseer, Akthem A
San Jose State University
Dept of Civil & Env Eng
1 Washington Sq
San Jose, CA 95192-0083
Phone: (408) 924-3860
Fax: (408) 924-4004
E-mail: akthem@sjsu.edu
ACI Member
Bazant, Zdenek P
Northwestern University
Department of Civil Engrg
Evanston, IL 60208-0001
Phone: (847) 491-4025
Fax: (847) 491-1078 -
E-mail: z-bazant@northwestern.edu
ACI Member
Burg,Ronald
CTLGroup
5400 Old Orchard Rd
Skokie, IL 60077-1030
Phone: (847) 972-3050
Fax: (847) 965-6541
E-mail: rburg@ctlgroup.com
ACI Member
Daye, Marwan A
WorleyParsons
PO Box 31699
Al-Khobar, 31952 Saudi Arabia
Phone: 96-65-05476793
Fax: 96-63-8811965
E-mail: marwandaye@hotmail.com
ACI Member
Dilger, Walter H
University of Calgary
2500 24th Ave NW
Calgary, AB T2N 1N4 Canada
Phone: (403)220-5829
Fax: (403)282-7026
E-mail: dilger@ucalgary.ca
ACI Member
Gardner, Noel J
University of Ottawa
CE Dept
PO Box 450 Station A
Ottawa, ON K1N-6N5 Canada
Phone: (613) 745-2031
Fax: (613) 562-5173
E-mail: jgardner@eng.uottawa.ca
ACI Member
Hansen, Will
University of Michigan
2330 G G Brown Building
Ann Arbor, MI 48109
Phone: (734)763-9660
Fax: (734)764-4292
E-mail: whansen@umich.edu
ACI Member
Marzouk, Hesham
Memorial Univ of Newfoundland
Engrg-Applied Science Faculty
St John's, NL A1B 3X5 Canada
Phone: (709)737-7923
Fax: (709)737-4042
E-mail: hmarzouk@engr.mun.ca
ACI Member
McDonald, David B
USG Corporation
700 North Highway 45
Libertyville, IL 60048-1296
Phone: (847)970-5262
Fax: 3122141466
E-mail: dmcdonald@usg.com
ACI Member
Nassif, Hani H A
Rutgers University
Civil Engineering Department
623 Bowser Rd
Piscataway, NJ 08854-8014
Phone: (732) 445-4414
Fax: (732) 445-8268
E-mail: nassif@rci.rutgers.edu
ACI Member
Novak, Lawrence C
Skidmore Owings & Merrill LLP
29W043 Donald Avenue
West Chicago, IL 60185
Phone: (312)360-4087
Fax: (312)360-4546
E-mail: lawrence.c.novak@som.com
ACI Member
Robertson, Ian
University of Hawaii
Dept of Civil and Environmental Engrgng
2540 Dole St Room 383
Honolulu, HI 96822-2303
Phone: (808)956-6536
Fax: (808)956-5014
E-mail: ianrob@hawaii.edu
ACI Member
Sakata, Kenji
Okayama University
Dept of Enviromental and Civil Engr
2-chome 1-1 Tsushima-Naka
Okayama, 700-8530 Japan
Phone: 81-86-2518155
Fax: 81-86-2518155
E-mail: kenji@cc.okayama-u.ac.jp
ACI Member
Weiss, W Jason
Purdue University
CE School
550 Stadium Mall Dr
West Lafayette, IN 47907-2051
Phone: (765) 494-2215
Fax: (765) 496-1364
E-mail: wjweiss@ecn.purdue.edu
ACI Member
Consulting Members
Baweja,Sandeep
Bentley Systems Inc
Ste 300
1600 Riviera Ave
Walnut Creek, CA 94596-3570
Phone: (925) 274-7818
Fax: (925) 933-1920
E-mail: baweja@comcast.net
Berrios,Airangel
US Corps of Engineers
209 Cobblestone Dr
Vicksburg, MS 39183-8646
Phone: (601) 529-1774
E-mail: airangel.berrios@erdc.usace.army.mil
Huo,X Sharon
Tennessee Tech University
PO Box 5015
TTU
Cookeville, TN 38505
Phone: (931)372-3454
Fax: (931)372-6239
E-mail: xhuo@tntech.edu
O'Moore,Liza
University of Queensland
Department of Civil Engineering
Brisbane, QLD 4072 Australia
Phone: 61-73-3653899
Fax: 61-73-3654599
E-mail: l.omoore@uq.edu.au
Associate Members
Ababneh, Ayman N
Clarkson University
Dept of Civil Engineering
8 Clarkson Ave - Box 5710
Potsdam, NY 13699-5710
Phone: (315) 268-4435
Fax: (315) 268-7985
E-mail: ababneh@clarkson.edu
ACI Member
Alexander, Stuart J
WSP Group
Buchanan House
24-30 Holborn
London, EC1N 2HS United Kingdom
Phone: 00-44-2073145032
Fax: 00-44-2073145001
E-mail: stuart.alexander@wspgroup.com
ACI Member
Bae, Sungjin
Bechtel Company
6955 Castle Court / Suite 104
Frederick, MD 21703-6438
Phone: (512) 228-9837
E-mail: sjinbae@yahoo.com
ACI Member
Bowers, Susan E
Virginia Tech
Via Dept of CEE
200 Patton Hall
Blacksburg, VA 24061-0001
Phone: (570) 220-5093 -
Fax: (540) 231-7532
ACI Member
Cedolin, Luigi
Politecnico di Milano/Dept DI
P Za Leonardo da Vinci 32
Milano, 20133 Italy
Phone: 39-02-23994203
Fax: 39-02-23994220
E-mail: cedolin@stru.polimi.it
ACI Member
Chern, Jenn-Chuan
Natl Taiwan University
Dept of Civil Engineering
Taipei, Taiwan ROC
Phone: 886-2-23637408
Fax: 886-2-23622975
E-mail: jcchern@ntu.edu.tw
ACI Member
Cortnik, Bryan G
Hohbach-Lewin
Ste 150
260 Sheridan Ave
Palo Alto, CA 94306-2008
Phone: (650) 617-5930 - 240
Fax: (650) 617-5932
E-mail: bryan@cortnik.com
ACI Member
Day, Robert L
University Of Calgary
2500 University Dr NW
Calgary, AB T2N 1N4 Canada
Phone: (403) 220-7489
Fax: (403) 282-7026
E-mail: rday@ucalgary.ca
ACI Member
Earney, T Patrick
Trabue Hansen and Hinshaw
1901 Pennsylvania Dr
Columbia, MO 65202-1996
Phone: (573) 268-2615
Fax: (573) 814-1128
E-mail: pearney@thhinc.com
ACI Member
Fu, Chung C
University of Maryland
14414 Coral Gables Way
North Potomac, MD 20878-3802
Phone: (301)405-2011
Fax: (301)314-9129
E-mail: ccfu@eng.umd.edu
ACI Member
Imamoto, Keiichi
Ashikaga Inst of Technology
268-1 Oh-maecho
Tochigi Pref
Ashikaga, 326-8558 Japan
Phone: 81-28-4620609
Fax: 81-28-4624235
E-mail: imamoto@ashitech.ac.jp
ACI Member
Issa, Mohsen A
University Of Illinois
2095 ERF/MC246
842 W Taylor St
Chicago, IL 60607-7039
Phone: (312) 996-3432
Fax: (312) 996-2426
E-mail: missa@uic.edu
ACI Member
Lange, David A
University of Illinois
Civil and Environmental Engineering
1116 NCEL MC-250
205 N Mathews Ave
Urbana, IL 61801-2350
Phone: (217) 333-4816
Fax: (217) 333-9464
E-mail: dlange@uiuc.edu
ACI Member
Leland, Kenneth B
GE Energy
M/D 100D
PO Box 648
Greenville, SC 29602-0648
Phone: (864)254-5075
Fax: (864)254-2555
E-mail: ken.leland@ge.com
ACI Member
Lopez, Mauricio
Pontificia Univ Catolica de Chile
School of Civil Engineering
Av Vicuna Mackenna 4860
Macul Casilla 306 / Correo 22
Santiago, 6904411 Chile
Phone: 56-23-544643
Fax: 56-2-354-4806
E-mail: mlopez@ing.puc.cl
ACI Member
Mueller, Harald S
Universitat Karlsruhe (TH)
Am Fasanengarten
Karlsruhe, D-76131 Germany
Phone: 01-10-3081040
Fax: 01-10-3081041090
E-mail: hsm@ifmb.uka.de
ACI Member
Neville, Adam M
24 Gun Wharf
130 Wapping High Street
London, E1W 2NH United Kingdom
Phone: 44-17-12651087
Fax: 44-20-72651087
E-mail: mhneville@hotmail.com
ACI Member
Ray, Indrajit
West Virginia University
Dept of Civil and Env Engrg
Engrg Science Building - Room 611D
Evansdale Drive
Morgantown, WV 26506-6103
Phone: (304) 293-3031 -2619
Fax: (304) 293-7109
E-mail: indrajit.ray@mail.wvu.edu
ACI Member
Sassone, Mario
Politecnico di Torino
Viale Mattioli 39
Torino, 10126 Italy
Phone: 00-39-115644868
Fax: 00-39-115644999
E-mail: mario.sassone@polito.it
ACI Member
Shiu, K Nam
Walker Restoration Consultants
505 Davis Rd
Elgin, IL 60123-1303
Phone: (847) 697-2640
Fax: (847) 697-7439
E-mail: nam.shiu@walkerrestoration.com
ACI Member
Suksawang, Nakin
Florida International University
Civil and Environmental Engineering
# EC3602
10555 W Flagler St
Miami, FL 33174-1630
Phone: (305) 348-0110 -
Fax: (305) 348-2802 -
E-mail: suksawan@fiu.edu
ACI Member
ATTACHMENT B
Closed Ballot
(Record of original votes as of closing date)
ACI 209 Committee should still keep the old ACI 209R-92 (97) until the
three standing along documents that will replace it are published.
Ballot Items:
Voting Members:
Aff.
Item Not
Member Aff. w/ Neg. Abs. Comments
# Retd.
Com.
1 Al- X
Manaseer,Akthem
X Obsolete document, 35 years old. It is better to have
no ACI recommendation. Engineers will be misled to
Bazant,Zdenek
think this procedure is still up-to-date and skip looking
for more realistic procedures available in the literature.
Burg,Ronald X
Carreira,Domingo X
Chiorino,Mario X
Daye,Marwan X
Dilger,Walter X
Gardner,Noel X The approval process in ACI (committee plus TAC) is so
lengthy even the new documents are based upon
research/work several years old. We should not
reapprove ACI 209-92 which was, effectively, identical
to the previous versions of ACI 209-72, ACI 209-78
etc.
Hansen,Will X
Marzouk,Hesham X
X While the document is outdated by the more recent
publications, it is unlikely that we will have replacement
McDonald,David information for the structural effects of shrinkage and
creep within the next 2-3 years. For this reason alone, I
believe we should keep the document active.
Nassif,Hani X
X Affirmative with the understand the committee will
Novak,Lawrence proceed appropriately with the completion of the new
documents
Rieder,Klaus X
Robertson,Ian X
Sakata,Kenji X
Videla,Carlos X
Weiss,W Jason X
Passage of an item requires resolution of any negative votes. Passage of an item also requires that
the number of affirmative votes be at least that given by the 1/2 and 2/3 rules. Please refer to the
ACI Technical Committeee Manual for additional information on balloting procedures.
Affirmative
Not The 1/2 The 2/3
Item # Affirmative with Negative Abstain
Returned Rule Rule
Comments
1 14 2 2 Item Meets Item Meets
ATTACHMENT C