sws612017 _wwu-sefndia.org View tope - suppor sinking www.sefindia.org ‘STRUCTURAL ENGINEERING FORUM OF INDIA [SEFT Ce eT) (Saw alfa ions HEM.) tow @stosa {S7iS tone] Bsurscrotions W pigest Preferences (Iraq search HEmemberist luserarouss [ Register ( securty Tis donate Profile [Log into check your arivate messages (Loa into website @Loa in to forum Wing: Mabe sre yu stan the donrowsed wtacent wi updates arts tach betes oping ar. They ay cola vines, “se ane saners ss be a o ule coubaded ataciren to deck Wt Seley support sinking Goto page 4,2 Maxt © rewtopic) @ posrrenhy)ipiTHank Post] worw.sefnd 19 Forum Index -> SEFI General Discussion View previous topic View next tople Mos Drea: Wed Nov 17,2010 6:45am) Pest je: pe lng Qua) bear al, Done 16 Sep 2009 have a query regarding support displacement loading fora steel structure. The costumer has asked to design the structure for 8mm afereta seement and not mentioned any detals Row to apply onthe structure 2n what may should apply this nang to cokanns wen here arr elo? 2)how this loading canbe combined with other loading le whether can ply this lading Simuitaneously with wind and seme? kinay suggest me, regards babu Back to top Satie) Gam tmeehras se Wd Nov 17, 2610 0:20 am Ps ae: espe eng Qa) oo [quote="veerababudodda" |Dear All, Deer Mr Verababy, n T think you need to describe your structure, aleast IF the srctre fe muiple bays and mult soreyed then the suppor shal be medled as spring and check bak or ciferetial setiement Then ony forces in beam elements wil be accourting or ed: 23m 200 ant 23 on Aferental detections between the suppor. Seicksangar, nia Regars Umesh Reo Back to top Satie) Cam ikram, ose Wed Nor 17,2010 11:08 m Pot sujet: ppt Sing iam jot Droste Wed Nov 17, 20101:08 am ose: 7 Dear €r Bapu Sine e333 ‘mm would be the differential settlement between adjacent supports, Acconingly depending on No of support inking support cases can be acted tothe oadng Ist This te Ndel ating under suppor placement in STAAD. Pent: 300209 THs jad ease en be combined in oad combination as others. This lading shal also be combined with windEQ Bt loading cases nilthot shking supports shall ls be present for appreciating governing htpstiwnw-sefincia.orgforumviewtopic phpt=8703, wrsws612017 Back to top. veerababudodda Joined: 16 Sep 2008 Back to top. knsheth123 Bronze Sponsor Joined: 26 Jan 2002 Back to top. vikram jest go. i wu seindia.org View tope - suppor sinking values in members. best wishes vikramject Dear Al, Thave a query regarding support displacement loading fora stee! structure. The costumer has asked to design the structure for 8mm differential settlement and not mentioned any details how to apply on the structure {Din what way we should apply this loading to columns when there are mare columns? _2)how this loading can be combined with other loading fe whether can i apply this loading simultaneously with wind and seismic? kindly suggest me. regards babu Posted via Email Sprite) SS pm) [Dotted Wad Nov 17, 2010 3:28 pm Post subject: (Qauaia) Dear Vikram, my structure consists of 22 columns with 5 bays in longitudinal cirection and 3oays in transverse direction. If | have to apply differential settlement how can | proceed with this type of configuration. 15 glving nodal displacement for each column (each load case) individually correct? Is this type of loading comes under accidental loading? If yes,can we cambine this with wind/seismic loading as the stresses will be very huge? Regards, babu Epi) CS om Posted: Wad Nov 17,2030 4:05 9m Poet suet suppor ska Qausie) Dear Sefan In Safe Bearing Capacty of Soll, Total Allowable Settlement is considered, For Isolated Footings on Sand, itis 50mm. Normally a diferential settlement of the order of 2/3 of total satlement is ‘assumed to occur ther Criteria prescribed In IS 1904 Is Angular Distortion : Df, Settlement / Span should not be more than 1/500. In general most ofthe structures are capable of accommodating 25mm dif, settlement, and steel structure can accommodate still more, Hence for &mm dif, settlement ne more analysis is required, K. N, Sheth Posted via Email Sprite) SS pm) Droste: tu Nov 18, 2040 5:01 am Pos subjet: support sinking (Qauaia) Dear &r Babu it would be sufficient to see response /result of one frame in each diraction separately. (if frame is symmetrical geometrically, only two columns in transverse and three columns htpsiwnw-sefincia.orgforumviewtopic phpt=8703, answs612017 ned: 26 3an 2003 Poms: 2212 ack to top ibarua Y aro. a) wu seindia.org View tope - suppor sinking In long, direction could be seen for sinking) ‘and effect could be added at design stage ,f design stage Is attempted manually/spread sheets. But If design is also attempted through staad, the input and out put would definitely be voluminous It all depends on proof consultant since such @ loading Is prescribed lading for your project, {In my opinion this shall not be combined with EQ/wind, best regards vikramjeet Dear Vikram, my structure consists of 22 columns with $ bays in longitudinal direction and 3bays in transverse direction. IF] have to apply differential settlement how can i proceed with this type of configuration. 15 olving nodal displacement for each column (each load case) individually correct? Is this type of loading comes under accidental loading? If yes,can we combine this with wind/seismic loading as the stresses will be very huge? Regards, babu Posted via Email Sprofile) GS pm) [Dested: Thu Nov 18, 2010 8:47 am Post subject: support sinking 18th Nov 2010 For computing responses due to cifferential settlement, please see attached file, [As this settlement may occur at any time, say, immediately after construction, the responses cue to such settlement have to be accounted for along with responses due to earthquake or wind actions, For a frame with more than 2 columns, it may be sufficient to account for such settlement in relation to any columa and the column next in line toi, in isolation from the other columns. This is to say that differential setlements need be accounted for between any two columns at a time, and not forall the columns in a line having settled by 8mm in relation to @ preceding column, which is very unlikely. ‘The effect of diferential settlement may be accounted for In all the beam-column jolnts along the frame, because such ctf settlement could occur anywhere, Indrayit Barua (On Wed, 17 Nev 2010 13:32:26 +0530 "veerababudedda” wrote ‘quote: Dear All ‘have 2 query regarding support displacement loading fr a steel structure. The costumer has ‘asked to design the strucure for mm eferential settlement and nat mentioned any detail ow to eppiy on the structure Din what way we shoulé apply ths loading to columns when there are more columns? 2)how this leading can be combined with other leading fe whether can | apply this loading Simultaneously with wind and seismic? kindly suggest me. regards babu ‘quote: htpsiwnw-sefincia.orgforumviewtopic php?t=8703, asws612017 Back to top. ele_ra a ned 26 3 2002 Pome: 1a wu seindia.org View tope - suppor sinking Posted via Email Frag argos Sorne amr wha ae Bs oa a (Dene sere isang bc o upload conrlonos tact hack or sty. Differential_settlement_at_a_joint-formulae.xls, Description: Filename: | iferertial setlenent_at 3 Jolie formulae Flesze: [15.5 K8. Joowntoaa| Downloaded: | 413 Times) Sprefile) SS pm) [DPosted Fri Nov 19, 2010 7:37 am Post subject: supper sinking Qasr] Dear Vikram / and Babu, If client has given you magnitude of sinking, he must give you the boundary conditions 2s well, where the sinking has taken place and how it has been distributed. If nat, you can apply logic. Look: at it this way, All 5 (X) and 3 (¥) columns can not have exactly the same displacement, otherwise, it's just a free body movement, and no stresses / strains would be developed. You can start by ‘assuming that the displacements are linear from 0 at one end to maximum at the other, assuming Soll of uniform properties. (For nonuniform soll, youll need an expert's opinion). I's highly unlikely that the displacement will be random, provided continuity of the structure and the support. This ‘ives rise to 3 loading conditions: 1. cispl 0 at one end of bay and max at other, for one direction, say X. 2, Dito for ¥. 3. Diagonal displacement, i, diagonally, one colurnn has zero displacement, To: ceneral@sefinia.ora Sent: Thu, 18 November, 2020 7:58:16 PM ‘Subjects [SEFI] Re: support sinking htpstiwnw-sefincia.orgforumviewtopic phpt=8703, answs612017 jack to top vikram ject ato. @ Joined: 26 3a 2002 Pome: 2212 ‘ww sefindia.org View tope - suppor sinking Dear Er Babu It would be sufficient to see response /result of one frame in each direction separately (if frame is symmetrical geometrically, only two columns in transverse and three colurnns in long. direction could be seen for sinking) and effect could be added at design stage if design stage Is attempted manually/spread sheets. But If design is also attempted through staad, the input and out put would defitely be voluminous It all depends on proof consultant since such a loading is prescribed loading for your project. in my opinion this shall nat be combined with EQ/wind, best regards vikramjeet Dear Vikram, my structure consists of 22 colurnns with 5 bays in longitudinal crection and 3bays in transverse direction. If | have to apply differential settlement how can i proceed with this type of configuration. Is giving nodal displacement for each column (each load case) individually correct? 1s this type of loading comes under accidental loading? If yes,can we combine this with wind/seismic loading as the stresses will be very huge? Regards, babu Posted via Emall [rested Sat Nov 20, 2010 5:56 am Post subject: support sinking Dear Er Rajendra Lele j ‘agree with your posting. Only small apprehension of net combining the same with EQ/Wind is that: Wine /EQ resistance of only those joints which suffered extra rotations due to support sinking s affected whereas other joints have reserve MR due to provision for moments due to sinking ‘support at al joints, However in a ord, if all supports sink ( EQ perpendicular to ‘rid - -cnitical) will definitely require sinking support case to be ‘combined with EQ. But such probabilty is remote Considering @ Four bay frame in both direction with 16 calurmns(4X4) Total no of beam restraints of entire system 4 in X direction (and 24 nos in ¥ direction) (Each beam has two ene restraints and therefore at continuous support two sides of beam posses double) For each beam restraint Mi= Moment of resistance for gravity loading M2= MR for sinking support M3= MR for EQ loading Considering that one penultimate support sinks by settlement This willincuce moment of 6*EI y/LA2 in 4 beam restraints in X direction land 4 beam restraints in direction in beams passing over it htpstiwnw-sefncia.orgforumWviewtopic phpt=8703, 37612017 Back to top wor sefindia.o1g View topic - support sinking Induced moment due to support sinking in entire structural system In ‘each direction = 4*M2 MR provided for support sinking in entire structural system in ‘each direction is = 24*M2 Moment of resistance of structural system in each directior Gravity loading case: Moment of Resistance provided =[ 24*M1 + 24* M2] in each direction EQ casein case EQ Is not combined with sinking) Moment of Resistance required =[(24*M1 + 24% M3 + 4*M2)] in each direction (only one penutimate support sinks), Moment of Resistance available =[(26*M1+24*M2) + 24 M3- 4#M2) In each cirection whicn is equal to = (24*M1+244M3) + 20% M2 in each direction Still higher than required to take seismic /wind. Further to say that load factor which is only 1.2 under EQ as against 1.5 under normal will further add to reserve strength ‘case of 3supports in a grid sinking with EQ perpendicular to it. MR required =24*M1424"™3+124M2 MR avallable=((24*M1+24"M2) + 24* M3- 12*M2] in each direction i.e Available MR is equal to required one OK Similarity case of All supports in one grid sinking with EQ perpendicular to it MR required =24*M1424"m3+16*M2 MR avallablel =[(24*M1+24*M2) + 24% M3- 16*M2] in each direction Le Availabel MR is short by 8*M2 But such a possibility is remote However for small buildings , combining this case will be a better and safe preposition Sorry for the long mail and suggestion for better understanding of concept will be highly appreciates. with best regards vikramjeet Posted via Email Epo) SS om [Droste Mon Nov 22,2010 4:15 pm Pest subject Dear Sirs, htpstiwnw-sefincia.orgforumviewtopic phpt=8703, arsws612017 _wru-sefindia.org View tope - suppor sinking Pontie’ 7° Thank you for your valuable suggestions. Regards, babu [Back to top Eph) SS om spay sets tom previous Geenton) DiThank po sorreatindnorg Forum Inder > SEP General Page 1 of 2 ume to: [SEFL General Dizewesion ——___¥] [ee] ‘ranstetion: [Translate topic ¥] [eo ‘You cannot post new topics in hs frum ‘ou eamnot reply to topes in 5 frum ‘You canmot eat your poste nh foram Youeannot delete your posts in his frum “ou eannot voto n pol Ins frum "You eanmotsttacr ses nti foram 1 203, 2008SEANOWA Jaa Doman ensatn >rum of India Like Page Sign Up yur ionds to ke tis me GB Structural Enginoering Forum of india FF) 12 saruary at 00:31 Indo-Norwegian Training Programme (Non-Residential) on Seismic Design of Mult-storey Buildings: IS 1893 vs. Eurocode 8 at New Delhi from March 18-18, 2017 Brochure: hitp:siwww sefindia.orgiforum/download.pnp?id=11460 Full Details: htip siwww.sefindia.orgiforumiviewtopic.php?p=75769 ite aor Training Programme htpstiwnw-sefncia.orgforumviewtopic phpt=8703, a"