Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok

I AM THAT
N AZ VAGYOK
1. The Sense of I am ............................................................................................................6
1. Az 'n vagyok' rzse ......................................................................................................6
2. Obsession with the body .....................................................................................................8
2. A test knyszerkpzete ....................................................................................................8
3. The Living Present............................................................................................................ 10
3. Az l jelen................................................................................................................... 10
4. Real World is Beyond the Mind ........................................................................................ 13
4. A valdi vilg az elmn tl van ..................................................................................... 13
5. What is Born must Die......................................................................................................15
5. Ami megszletett, meg is kell halnia .............................................................................15
6. Meditation ........................................................................................................................ 17
6. Meditci...................................................................................................................... 17
7. The Mind .......................................................................................................................... 18
7. Az elme ........................................................................................................................ 18
8. The Self Stands Beyond Mind .......................................................................................... 21
8. Az n az elmn tl van ................................................................................................. 21
9. Responses of Memory ......................................................................................................25
9. Az emlkezet vlaszai ................................................................................................... 25
10. Witnessing ...................................................................................................................... 27
10. Tansg ...................................................................................................................... 27
11. Awareness and Consciousness ........................................................................................ 30
11. Tudat s tudatossg ..................................................................................................... 30
12. The Person is not Reality ................................................................................................ 32
12. A szemly nem valsgos ........................................................................................... 32
13. The Supreme, the Mind and the Body .............................................................................35
13. A Legfelsbb, az Elme s a Test ................................................................................. 35
14. Appearances and the Reality ........................................................................................... 40
14. Ltszatok s a realits ................................................................................................. 40
15. The Gnani....................................................................................................................... 44
15. A Gnani ...................................................................................................................... 44
16. Desirelessness, the Highest Bliss .................................................................................... 47
16. Vgynlklisg, a legnagyobb boldogsg .................................................................... 47
17. The Ever-Present ............................................................................................................ 53
17. A mindig jelenlev......................................................................................................53
18. To Know What you Are, Find What you Are Not ........................................................... 55
18. Hogy megtudd ki vagy, fedezd fel, ki nem vagy .......................................................... 55
19. Reality lies in Objectivity ............................................................................................... 59
19. A valsg elfogulatlansgot jelent ............................................................................... 59
20. The Supreme is Beyond All ............................................................................................ 63
20. A Legfelsbb mindenek felett ll ................................................................................ 63
21. Who am I? ...................................................................................................................... 68
21. Ki vagyok n? .............................................................................................................68
22. Life is Love and Love is Life .......................................................................................... 73
22. Az let szeretet s a szeretet let ................................................................................. 73
23. Discrimination leads to Detachment ................................................................................ 77
1

www.nem2.lapunk.hu
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok

23. A megklnbztets prtatlansghoz vezet ................................................................. 77

24. God is the All-doer, the Gnani a Non-doer......................................................................83
24. Isten a mindent-tev, a Gnani a nem-tev ................................................................... 83
25. Hold on to I am ............................................................................................................ 88
25. Ragaszkodj az n vagyok-hoz ................................................................................... 88
26. Personality, an Obstacle .................................................................................................. 94
26. A szemlyisg akadly ................................................................................................ 94
27. The Beginningless Begins Forever .................................................................................. 99
27. A kezdetnlkli rkk kezddik ................................................................................ 99
28. All Suffering is Born of Desire ..................................................................................... 104
28. Minden szenveds vgybl szletik .......................................................................... 104
29. Living is Lifes only Purpose ........................................................................................ 107
29. Az let egyetlen clja maga az let ............................................................................ 107
30. You are Free NOW ....................................................................................................... 113
30. MOST vagy szabad ................................................................................................... 113
31. Do not Undervalue Attention ........................................................................................ 117
31. Ne becsld le a figyelmet .......................................................................................... 117
32. Life is the Supreme Guru .............................................................................................. 122
32. Az let a Legfbb Guru ............................................................................................. 122
33. Everything Happens by Itself ........................................................................................ 127
33. Minden magtl trtnik ........................................................................................... 127
34. Mind is restlessness Itself ............................................................................................. 134
34. Az elme maga a nyugtalansg ................................................................................... 134
35. Greatest Guru is Your Inner Self ................................................................................... 141
35. Bels ned a legnagyobb Guru .................................................................................. 141
36. Killing Hurts the Killer, not the Killed .......................................................................... 147
36. Az ls a gyilkosnak rt, nem a meggyilkoltnak ........................................................ 147
37. Beyond Pain and Pleasure there is Bliss ........................................................................ 153
37. A fjdalmon s lvezeten tl boldogsg van .............................................................. 153
38. Spiritual Practice is Will Asserted and Re-asserted ....................................................... 159
38. A spiritulis gyakorlat jra s jra kijelentsre kerl akarat ..................................... 159
39. By Itself Nothing has Existence .................................................................................... 166
39. Semmi nem nmagtl ltezik .................................................................................. 166
40. Only the Self is Real ..................................................................................................... 170
40. Csak az n valsgos ................................................................................................ 170
41. Develop the Witness Attitude ....................................................................................... 174
41. A tansg attitd kifejlesztse ................................................................................... 174
42. Reality can not be Expressed ........................................................................................ 177
42. A valsg nem fejezdhet ki ..................................................................................... 177
43. Ignorance can be Recognised, not Gnana...................................................................... 183
43. A tudatlansg felismerhet, a Gnana nem ................................................................. 183
44. 'I am' is True, all else is Inference ................................................................................. 188
44. Az n vagyok igazsg, minden ms kvetkeztets .................................................. 188
45. What Comes and Goes has no Being ............................................................................. 192
45. Ami jn s megy, annak nincs lte ............................................................................ 192
46. Awareness of Being is Bliss .......................................................................................... 197
46. A ltezs tudatossga boldogsg ............................................................................... 197
47. Watch Your Mind ......................................................................................................... 201
47. Figyeld az elmdet .................................................................................................... 201
48. Awareness is Free ......................................................................................................... 204

2
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok

48. A tudat szabad .......................................................................................................... 204

49. Mind Causes Insecurity................................................................................................. 213
49. Az elme veszlyeztettsget okoz ............................................................................... 213
50. Self-awareness is the Witness ....................................................................................... 217
50. Az n-tudoms a tan ............................................................................................... 217
51. Be Indifferent to Pain and Pleasure ............................................................................... 220
51. Lgy kzmbs a fjdalommal s az rmmel szemben ............................................ 220
I AM THAT part2 .............................................................................................................. 227
N AZ VAGYOK 2. rsz ............................................................................................... 227
52. Being Happy, Making Happy is the Rhythm of Life ..................................................... 227
52. Boldognak lenni, boldogg tenni az let harmnija .................................................. 227
53. Desires Fulfilled, Breed More Desires .......................................................................... 230
53. A beteljeslt vgyak tovbbi vgyakat keltenek ........................................................ 230
54. Body and Mind are Symptoms of Ignorance ................................................................. 234
54. A test s az elme a tudatlansg krtnetei ................................................................. 234
55. Give up All and You Gain All....................................................................................... 239
55. Adj fel mindent, s mindent elnyersz ........................................................................ 239
56. Consciousness Arising, World Arises ........................................................................... 244
56. Tudatossg megjelensvel a vilg is megjelenik ...................................................... 244
57. Beyond Mind there is no Suffering ............................................................................... 249
57. Az elmn tl nincs szenveds .................................................................................... 249
58. Perfection, Destiny of All ............................................................................................. 253
58. Tkleteseds a sorsa mindennek .............................................................................. 253
59. Desire and Fear: Self-centred States .............................................................................. 257
59. Vgyakozs s flelem: n-kzpont llapotok ......................................................... 257
60. Live Facts, not Fancies ................................................................................................. 261
60. Tnyeket lj, ne kpzelt dolgokat .............................................................................. 261
61. Matter is Consciousness Itself ....................................................................................... 264
61. Az anyag a tudatossg maga ..................................................................................... 264
62. In the Supreme the Witness Appears ............................................................................. 270
62. A Legfelsbben jelenik meg a tan ........................................................................... 270
63. Notion of Doership is Bondage ..................................................................................... 275
63. A cselekvsg kpzete ktelk .................................................................................. 275
64. Whatever pleases you, Keeps you Back ........................................................................ 278
64. Brmi, ami a kedvedre van, az visszatart ................................................................... 278
65. A Quiet Mind is All You Need ..................................................................................... 284
65. Csendes elmre van szksged csupn ...................................................................... 284
66. All Search for Happiness is Misery ............................................................................... 289
66. Minden boldogsg keress szenveds ........................................................................ 289
67. Experience is not the Real Thing................................................................................... 296
67. A tapasztalat nem a valsgos dolog ......................................................................... 296
68. Seek the Source of Consciousness................................................................................. 300
68. Keresd a tudatossg forrst ...................................................................................... 300
69. Transiency is Proof of Unreality ................................................................................... 303
69. A mlkonysg a valtlansgnak a bizonytka ......................................................... 303
70. God is the End of All Desire and Knowledge ................................................................ 309
70. Isten a vge minden vgynak s tudsnak .................................................................. 309
71. In Self-awareness you Learn about Yourself ................................................................. 315
71. Az n-figyels sorn nmagadrl tanulsz ................................................................. 315
72. What is Pure, Unalloyed, Unattached is Real ................................................................ 321

3
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok

72. Ami szntiszta, elegytetlen, fggetlen, az vals ........................................................ 321

73. Death of the Mind is Birth of Wisdom .......................................................................... 330
73. Az elme halla a blcsessg szletse ....................................................................... 330
74. Truth is Here and Now .................................................................................................. 336
74. Az igazsg itt s most van ......................................................................................... 336
75. In Peace and Silence you Grow ..................................................................................... 344
75. Bkben s csendben nvekszel ................................................................................ 344
76. To Know that You do not Know, is True Knowledge .................................................... 349
76. Tudni, hogy nem tudsz, az igazi tuds ....................................................................... 349
77. 'I' and 'Mine' are False Ideas .......................................................................................... 357
77. Az n s az enym tves idek ............................................................................. 357
78. All Knowledge is Ignorance .......................................................................................... 361
78. Minden tuds tudatlansg .......................................................................................... 361
79. Person, Witness and the Supreme ................................................................................. 367
79. Szemly, tan s a Legfelsbb .................................................................................. 367
80. Awareness .................................................................................................................... 372
80. Tudat ........................................................................................................................ 372
81. Root Cause of Fear ....................................................................................................... 378
81. A flelem eredend oka ............................................................................................ 378
82. Absolute Perfection is Here and Now............................................................................ 383
82. Abszolt tkletessg itt s most ............................................................................... 383
83. The True Guru .............................................................................................................. 389
83. A valdi Guru ........................................................................................................... 389
84. Your Goal is Your Guru ............................................................................................... 395
84. Clod a Gurud........................................................................................................... 395
85. I am: The Foundation of all Experience ...................................................................... 402
85. n vagyok: minden tapasztalat alapja ..................................................................... 402
86. The Unknown is the Home of the Real.......................................................................... 407
86. Az ismeretlen a valdi otthona .................................................................................. 407
87. Keep the Mind Silent and You shall Discover ............................................................... 414
87. Tartsd elmdet csendesen, s fel fogod fedezni ......................................................... 414
88. Knowledge by the Mind, is not True Knowledge .......................................................... 418
88. Az elme ltali tuds nem valdi tuds ....................................................................... 418
89. Progress in Spiritual Life .............................................................................................. 424
89. A spiritulis let fejldse ......................................................................................... 424
90. Surrender to Your Own Self.......................................................................................... 428
90. Add t nmagad sajt nednek ................................................................................. 428
91. Pleasure and Happiness................................................................................................. 435
91. rm s boldogsg ................................................................................................... 435
92. Go Beyond the l-am-the-body Idea ............................................................................... 438
92. Haladd meg az n-vagyok-a-test idet ....................................................................... 438
93. Man is not the Doer ...................................................................................................... 443
93. Nem az ember a cselekv .......................................................................................... 443
94. You are Beyond Space and Time .................................................................................. 447
94. Tren s idn tli vagy .............................................................................................. 447
95. Accept Life as it Comes ................................................................................................ 452
95. Fogadd az letet, ahogy az jn .................................................................................. 452
96. Abandon Memories and Expectations ........................................................................... 456
96. Hagyj fel az emlkekkel s az elvrsokkal ............................................................... 456
97. Mind and the World are not Separate ............................................................................ 462

4
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok

97. Az elme s a vilg nem klnllk ............................................................................ 462

98. Freedom from Self-identification .................................................................................. 469
98. nazonoststl val mentessg ................................................................................ 469
99. The Perceived can not be the Perceiver ......................................................................... 476
99. Az szlelt nem lehet azonos az szlelvel .................................................................. 476
100. Understanding leads to Freedom ................................................................................. 482
100. A megrts szabadsghoz vezet............................................................................... 482
101. Gnani does not Grasp, nor Hold .................................................................................. 487
101. A Gnani nem ragad s nem tart meg semmit ........................................................... 487

5
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok

1. The Sense of I am 1. Az 'n vagyok' rzse

Questioner: It is a matter of daily experience that on Krdez: Minden napos tapasztalat, hogy amikor
waking up the world suddenly appears. Where does felbrednk, a vilg azonnal megjelenik. Honnan
it come from? jn?

Maharaj: Before anything can come into being there Maharaj: Mieltt brmi ltrejhetne, lennie kell
must be somebody to whom it comes. All valakinek, aki szmra az ltrejn. Minden
appearance and disappearance presupposes a megjelens s eltns egy valamilyen vltozatlan
change against some changeless background. httr eltti vltozst felttelez.

Q: Before waking up I was unconscious. K: breds eltt tudattalan voltam.

M: In what sense? Having forgotten, or not having
experienced? Dont you experience even when
unconscious? Can you exist without knowing? A
lapse in memory: is it a proof of non-existence? And
can you validly talk about your own non-existence as
an actual experience? You cannot even say that
your mind did not exist. Did you not wake up on
being called? And on waking up, was it not the
sense I am that came first? Some seed
consciousness must be existing even during sleep,
or swoon. On waking up the experience runs: I am -
- the body -- in the world. It may appear to arise in
succession but in fact it is all simultaneous, a single
idea of having a body in a world. Can there be the
sense of I am without being somebody or other?
M: Milyen rtelemben? Nem emlkszel semmire,
vagy semmit sem tapasztaltl? Amikor tudattalan
vagy tapasztalni sem vagy kpes? Ltezhetsz-e
tuds nlkl? Az emlkezet kihagys bizonythatja-e
a nemltezst? s joggal beszlhetnk-e sajt
nemltezsedrl, mint valsgos tapasztalatrl? De
azt sem llthatjuk, hogy nem ltezett az elmd.
Nem bredtl-e fel, mikor eljtt az breszt ideje?
s az breds sorn nem az 'n vagyok' rzet volt-e
az, ami elszr megjelent? A tudatossg valamilyen
csrjnak mg alvs kzben, vagy jult llapotban
is lteznie kell. A felbreds sorn kibontakoz
szemlyes tapasztalatod: 'n vagyok -- a test -- a
vilgban'. Ez ltszlag egyms utn keletkez
gondolatok sora, valjban teljesen egyidej, a
testnek a vilgban val birtoklsnak egyetlen
gondolata. Lehet-e 'n vagyok' rzsed anlkl,
hogy lennl valaki?

Q: I am always somebody with its memories and K: n mindig valaki vagyok, annak emlkeivel s
habits. I know no other I am. szoksaival. Nem ismerek msik 'n vagyok'-ot.

M: Maybe something prevents you from knowing? M: Valami gtolja taln a megismersedet? Amikor
When you do not know something which others valami olyan dolgot nem tudsz, amit msok igen, mit
know, what do you do? teszel?

Q: I seek the source of their knowledge under their K: tbaigaztsuknak megfelelen felkutatom a
instruction. tudsuk forrst.

M: Is it not important to you to know whether you are
a mere body, or something else? Or, maybe nothing
at all? Dont you see that all your problems are your
bodys problems -- food, clothing, shelter, family,
friends, name, fame, security, survival -- all these
lose their meaning the moment you realise that you
may not be a mere body?
M: Nem fontos-e tudnod, hogy vajon puszta test
vagy-e, vagy valami ms? Vagy, esetleg, egyltaln
semmi? Nem ltod, hogy minden problmd a teste
problmja -- ennival, ruhzat, laks, csald,
bartok, hrnv, dicssg, biztonsg, tlls --
amelyek mindegyike abban a pillanatban elveszti a
jelentsgt, amint felismered, hogy nem puszta test
vagy?

Q: What benefit is there in knowing that I am not the K: Mi hasznom szrmazik a tudsbl, hogy nem a
body? test vagyok?

6
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
M: Even to say that you are not the body is not quite
true. In a way you are all the bodies, hearts and
minds and much more. Go deep into the sense of I
am and you will find. How do you find a thing you
have mislaid or forgotten? You keep in your mind
until you recall it. The sense of being, of 'I am' is the
first to emerge. Ask yourself whence it comes, or
just watch it quietly. When the mind stays in the 'I
am' without moving, you enter a state which cannot
be verbalised but can be experienced. All you need
to do is try and try again. After all the sense I am is
always with you, only you have attached all kinds of
things to it -- body, feelings, thoughts, ideas,
possessions etc. All these self-identifications are
misleading. Because of them you take yourself to be
what you are not.
Q: Then what am I?
M: It is enough to know what you are not. You need
not know what you are. For as long as knowledge
means description in terms of what is already
known, perceptual, or conceptual, there can be no
such thing as self-knowledge, for what you are
cannot be described, except as except as total
negation. All you can say is: I am not this, I am not
that. You cannot meaningfully say this is what I
am. It just makes no sense. What you can point out
as 'this' or 'that' cannot be yourself. Surely, you can
not be 'something' else. You are nothing
perceivable, or imaginable. Yet, without you there
can be neither perception nor imagination. You
observe the heart feeling, the mind thinking, the
body acting; the very act of perceiving shows that
you are not what you perceive. Can there be
perception, experience without you? An experience
must belong'. Somebody must come and declare it
as his own. Without an experiencer the experience
is not real. It is the experiencer that imparts reality to
experience. An experience which you cannot have,
of what value is it to you?
Q: The sense of being an experiencer, the sense of
I am, is it not also an experience?
7
M: De mg azt mondani, hogy nem a test vagy, sem
teljesen igaz. Bizonyos rtelemben minden test, szv
s elme te vagy, s mg ennl is sokkal tbb. Merlj
mlyen az 'n vagyok' rzsbe, s megtallod.
Hogyan tallsz meg egy elkevert, vagy elfelejtett
dolgot? Addig trd rajta a fejed, amg eszedbe nem
jut. A ltezs, az 'n vagyok' rzse jelenik meg
elsknt. Krdezd meg nmagad, honnan jn, vagy
csak szemlld csendesen. Amikor az elme
moccanatlanul az 'n vagyok-ban tartzkodik, akkor
egy olyan llapotba kerlsz, amely nem foglalhat
szavakba, csupn tlhet. Mindssze annyit kell
tenned, hogy folyamatosan, jra s jra prblkozz.
Hiszen az 'n vagyok' rzse mindig veled van, csak
mindenfle dolgot hozzkapcsoltl -- testet,
rzseket, gondolatokat, fogalmakat, javaidat, stb.
Minden ilyen nazonosuls flrevezet. Miattuk
tekinted magad annak, ami nem vagy.
K: Akkor mi vagyok?
M: Elg azt tudnod, hogy mi nem vagy. Nem kell
tudnod, hogy mi vagy. Mert amg a tuds a mr
ismert dolgok, szleletek, fogalmak kifejezseivel
trtn lerst jelent, addig nismeret nem
lehetsges, mert ami vagy, azt nem tudod lerni
msknt, csak totlis tagadsknt. Mindssze annyit
mondhatsz: 'n nem vagyok ez, n nem vagyok az'.
Nem tudod rtelemmel br mdon azt mondani,
hogy 'ez az, ami vagyok'. Ennek semmi rtelme.
Amire gy tudsz rmutatni, mint 'ez', vagy 'az', nem
lehetsz te. Valjban te nem lehetsz 'valami' ms.
Nem olyasvalami vagy, ami szlelhet vagy
elkpzelhet. Te nlkled nem lehetsges viszont
sem szlelet, sem kpzelet. Te szleled a szv
rzst, az elme gondolkodst, a test mkdst;
maga az szlels aktusa mutatja, hogy te nem az
vagy, amit szlelsz. Lehet-e szlelet, tapasztalat te
nlkled? Egy tapasztalsnak 'tartoznia kell
valakihez. Kell, hogy legyen valaki, s azt
sajtjaknt jelentse ki. Tapasztal nlkl a
tapasztalat nem valsgos. A tapasztal az, aki
valsgot ad a tapasztalatnak. Egy olyan
tapasztalat, amellyel nem rendelkezhetsz, milyen
rtkkel br szmodra?
K: A tapasztal ltezsnek az rzse, az 'n
vagyok' rzse, nem szintn tapasztalat-e?
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
M: Obviously, every thing experienced is an
experience. And in every experience there arises the
experiencer of it. Memory creates the illusion of
continuity. In reality each experience has its own
experiencer and the sense of identity is due to the
common factor at the root of all experiencer-
experience relations. Identity and continuity are not
the same. Just as each flower has its own colour,
but all colours are caused by the same light, so do
many experiences appear in the undivided and
indivisible awareness, each separate in memory,
identical in essence. This essence is the root, the
foundation, the timeless and spaceless 'possibility' of
all experience.
Q: How do I get at it?
M: You need not get at it, for you are it. It will get at
you, if you give it a chance. Let go your attachment
to the unreal and the real will swiftly and smoothly
step into its own. Stop imagining yourself being or
doing this or that and the realisation that you are the
source and heart of all will dawn upon you. With this
will come great love which is not choice or
predilection, nor attachment, but a power which
makes all things love-worthy and lovable.
2. Obsession with the body
Questioner: Maharaj, you are sitting in front of me
and I am here at your feet. What is the basic
difference between us?
Maharaj: There is no basic difference.
Q: Still there must be some real difference, I come
to you, you do not come to me.
M: Because you imagine differences, you go here
and there in search of superior people.
Q: You too are a superior person. You claim to know K: Te is felsbbrend szemly vagy. Azt lltod,
the real, while I do not. hogy te ismered a valsgot, mg n nem.
M: Did I ever tell you that you do not know and,
therefore, you are inferior? Let those who invented
such distinctions prove them. I do not claim to know
what you do not. In fact, I know much less than you
do.
Q: Your words are wise, your behaviour noble, your
grace all-powerful.
8
M: Nyilvnval, hogy minden tapasztalt dolog egy
tapasztalat. s minden tapasztalatban jelen van
annak tapasztalja. Az emlkezet hozza ltre a
folytonossg illzijt. Voltakppen mindegyik
tapasztalatnak sajt tapasztalja van, s az
nazonossg rzs az sszes tapasztal-
tapasztalat kapcsolat gykernek kzs tnyezje
miatt van. Azonossg s folytonossg nem ugyanaz.
Mint ahogy minden virg sajt sznben pompzik,
de mindegyik szn elidzje ugyanazon fny, gy
jelenik meg a sok tapasztalat az osztatlan s
oszthatatlan tudatossgban, mindegyik kln
emlkezetben, lnyegkben azonosknt. Ez a
lnyeg a gykere, alapja, idtlen s korltlan
'lehetsge' minden tapasztalatnak.
K: Hogyan rem el?
M: Nem kell elrned, mert az vagy. Az fog hozzd
eljutni, ha lehetsget adsz neki. Engedd el a
valtlan irnti ragaszkodsodat, s a valsg
gyorsan s akadlymentesen sajt helybe lp.
Hagyd abba a kpzeldst, hogy ez, vagy az vagy,
hogy ezt, vagy azt csinlod, s meg fog szletni
benned a felismers, hogy te vagy mindennek a
forrsa s szve. Ennek velejrja egy olyan
hatalmas szeretetet, amely nem vlaszts vagy
rszrehajls, sem nem ragaszkods, hanem egy
mindent kedvess, szeretetremltv vltoztat er.
2. A test knyszerkpzete
Krdez: Maharaj, te velem szemben lsz, s n itt,
a lbaidnl. Mi az alapvet klnbsg kzttnk?
Maharaj: Nincs alapvet klnbsg.
K: Mgiscsak kell lennie valamilyen klnbsgnek,
ha n jvk tehozzd, s nem te nhozzm.
M: Azrt ezrt msz ide s oda, 'felsbbrend'
embert keresve, mert klnbsgekben hiszel.
M: Mondtam n neked valaha, hogy alsbbrend
vagy mert nem ismered? Hagyd meg a bizonytst
azoknak, akik ezeket a klnbsgeket kiagyaltk. n
nem, hogy tudom, amit te nem. Valjban n sokkal
kevesebbet tudok, mint te.
K: Szavaid blcsek, viselkedsed nemes,
jindulatod korltlan.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
M: I know nothing about it all and see no difference
between you and me. My life is a succession of
events, just like yours. Only I am detached and see
the passing show as a passing show, while you stick
to things and move along with them.
Q: What made you so dispassionate?
M: Nothing in particular. It so happened that I trusted
my Guru. He told me I am nothing but my self and I
believed him. Trusting him, I behaved accordingly
and ceased caring for what was not me, nor mine.
Q: Why were you lucky to trust your teacher fully,
while our trust is nominal and verbal?
M: Who can say? It happened so. Things happen
without cause and reason and, after all, what does it
matter, who is who? Your high opinion of me is your
opinion only. Any moment you may change it. Why
attach importance to opinions, even your own?
Q: Still, you are different. Your mind seems to be K: De te mgis ms vagy. gy tnik, elmd mindig
always quiet and happy. And miracles happen round csendes, s boldog. s csodk trtnnek krltted.
you.
M: I know nothing about miracles, and I wonder
whether nature admits exceptions to her laws,
unless we agree that everything is a miracle. As to
my mind, there is no such thing. There is
consciousness in which everything happens. It is
quite obvious and within the experience of
everybody. You just do not look carefully enough.
Look well, and see what I see.
Q: What do you see?
9
M: Nem tudok errl semmit, s semmilyen
klnbsget nem ltok kzted s kztem. Az n
letem ugyangy esemnyek egymsutnja, mint a
tid. Csak n prtatlan vagyok, s az let apr
dolgait apr dolgoknak tekintem, te pedig
ragaszkodsz a dolgokhoz, s magaddal cipeled
azokat.
K: Mi tett ennyire prtatlann?
M: Semmi klns. Az gy trtnt, hogy rbztam
magamat a Gurumra. Kzlte velem, hogy semmi
ms nem vagyok, csupn nem, s n hittem neki.
A bel vetett hitemnek megfelelen viselkedtem, s
befejeztem az olyan dolgokkal val foglalkozst, ami
nem n vagyok, s nem az enym.
K: Mirt volt neked olyan szerencsd, hogy teljes
hitelt adsz tantdnak, mg a mi hitnk jelkpes, s
szavak szintjn marad?
M: Ki tudn megmondani? gy trtnt. A dolgok ok
s rtelem nlkl trtnnek, tulajdonkppen, s
vgl is mit szmt, hogy ki kicsoda? A te felemel
vlemnyed rlam csupn a vlemnyed. Brmelyik
pillanatban megvltoztathatod. Mirt tulajdontasz
jelentsget a vlemnyeknek, akr a sajtodnak
is?
M: Semmifle csodkrl nem tudok, s kvncsi
lennk, a termszet elfogadna-e kivteleket sajt
trvnyei all, hacsak egyet nem rtnk abban,
hogy minden csoda. Szerintem ilyesmi nem ltezik.
A tudatossgban trtnik minden. Ez teljesen
nyilvnval, s mindenki tapasztalatain belli.
Csakhogy te nem szemlled elg gondosan. Nzz
helyesen, s lsd, amit n ltok.
K: Te mit ltsz?
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
M: I see what you too could see, here and now, but
for the wrong focus of your attention. You give no
attention to your self. Your mind is all with things,
people and ideas, never with your self. Bring your
self into focus, become aware of your own
existence. See how you function, watch the motives
and the results of your actions. Study the prison you
have built around yourself by inadvertence. By
knowing what you are not, you come to know your
self. The way back to your self is through refusal and
rejection. One thing is certain: the real is not
imaginary, it is not a product of the mind. Even the
sense I am is not continuous, though it is a useful
pointer; it shows where to seek, but not what to
seek. Just have a good look at it. Once you are
convinced that you cannot say truthfully about your
self anything except I am, and that nothing that can
be pointed at, can be your self, the need for the I
am is over -- you are no longer intent on verbalising
what you are. All you need is to get rid of the
tendency to define your self. All definitions apply to
your body only and to its expressions. Once this
obsession with the body goes, you will revert to your
natural state, spontaneously and effortlessly. The
only difference between us is that I am aware of my
natural state, while you are bemused. Just like gold
made into ornaments has no advantage over gold
dust, except when the mind makes it so, so are we
one in being -- we differ only in appearance. We
discover it by being earnest, by searching, enquiring,
questioning daily and hourly, by giving one's life to
this discovery.
3. The Living Present
Questioner: As I can see, there is nothing wrong
with my body nor with my real being. Both are not of
my making and need not be improved upon. What
has gone wrong is the inner body, call it mind,
consciousness, antahkarana, whatever the name.
Maharaj: What do you consider to be wrong with
your mind?
Q: It is restless, greedy of the pleasant and afraid of
the unpleasant.
M: What is wrong with its seeking the pleasant and
shirking the unpleasant? Between the banks of pain
and pleasure the river of life flows. It is only when
the mind refuses to flow with life, and gets stuck at
the banks, that it becomes a problem. By flowing
with life I mean acceptance -- letting come what
10
M: Azt ltom, amit te is lthatnl, itt s most, de te a
rosszul fkuszlt figyelmed miatt nem figyelsz
nmagadra. A te elmd csak dolgokkal, emberekkel
s gondolatokkal foglalkozik, nmagaddal soha.
lltsd nmagadat a fkuszba, vlj tudatoss sajt
ltezsedre. Lsd, hogyan mkdsz, figyeld meg
tetteid indtkait s kvetkezmnyeit. Tanulmnyozd
a brtnt, amit figyelmetlensged miatt ptettl
nmagad kr. Annak megrtsvel, hogy ki nem
vagy, jutsz el nmagad megismershez. Az
nmagad fel forduls elutastson, elvetsen
keresztl vezet. Egy dolog biztos: a valsg nem
kpzelet szlte, nem az elme termke. Mg ha az
'n vagyok' rzse nem is folytonos, mgis hasznos
irnyt; megmutatja, hogy hol kell keresni, de azt
nem, hogy mit. Csak vizsgld meg alaposan. Mihelyt
meggyzdtl rla, hogy semmilyen ms hitelt
rdeml dolgot nem tudsz nmagadrl mondani,
azon kvl, hogy n vagyok, s hogy semmi olyan
nincs, ami rmutathatna, hogy mi lehet az ned, az
n vagyok irnti szksgleted elmlik nem lesz
tbb szndkod szavakkal kifejezni, hogy mi vagy.
Mindssze arra van szksg, hogy megszabadulj
nmagad definilsnak hajlamtl. Minden
definci a testedre vonatkozik csak, s annak
megnyilvnulsaira. Amint a test knyszerkpzete
elmlik, spontn mdon, s erfeszts nlkl
visszatrsz termszetes llapotodba. Az egyetlen
klnbsg kzttnk az, hogy n tudatban vagyok
termszetes llapotomnak, mg te a gondolataidba
vagy merlve. Mint ahogy az arany kszer sem
rtkesebb az aranypornl, hacsak az elme azz
teszi, ugyangy vagyunk mi azonosak a ltben
csak megjelensnkben klnbznk. Ezt csak kell
komolysggal, mindennapi s -rbani keresssel,
rdekldssel, kutatssal, letnknek e felfedez
munknak val tadsval fedezzk fel.
3. Az l jelen
Krdez: Ahogy n ltom, semmi baj a testemmel, s
valdi ltemmel sem. Egyiket sem n hoztam ltre,
s nincs szksg a megjavtsukra. Ami elromlott,
az a bels test, nevezzk azt elmnek,
tudatossgnak, antahkarannak, akrmilyen nven.
Maharaj: Mire gondolsz, mi a baj az elmddel?
K: Nyugtalan, svrog az lvezetek utn, s fl a
kellemetlen dolgoktl.
M: Mi a baj az lvezet keressvel s a kellemetlen
dolgok kerlsvel? Az let folyja a fjdalom s az
lvezet partjai kztt folyik. Amikor az elme
visszautastja az lettel val egyttfolyst, s
megakad a partoknl, csak ekkor vlik ez
problmv. Az lettel val egyttfolys alatt
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
comes and go what goes. Desire not, fear not,
observe the actual, as and when it happens, for you
are not what happens, you are to whom it happens.
Ultimately even the observer you are not. You are
the ultimate potentiality of which the all-embracing
consciousness is the manifestation and expression.
Q: Yet, between the body and the self there lies a
cloud of thoughts and feelings, which neither server
the body nor the self. These thoughts and feelings
are flimsy, transient and meaningless, mere mental
dust that blinds and chokes, yet they are there,
obscuring and destroying.
M: Surely, the memory of an event cannot pass for
the event itself. Nor can the anticipation. There is
something exceptional, unique, about the present
event, which the previous, or the coming do not
have. There is a livingness about it, an actuality; it
stands out as if illuminated. There is the stamp of
reality on the actual, which the past and the future
do not have.
Q: What gives the present that 'stamp of reality?
M: There is nothing peculiar in the present event to
make it different from the past and future. For a
moment the past was actual and the future will
become so. What makes the present so different?
Obviously, my presence. I am real for I am always
now, in the present, and what is with me now shares
in my reality. The past is in memory, the future -- in
imagination. There is nothing in the present event
itself that makes it stand out as real. It may be some
simple, periodical occurrence, like the striking of the
clock. In spite of our knowing that the successive
strokes are identical, the present stroke is quite
different from the previous one and the next -- as
remembered, or expected. A thing focussed in the
now is with me, for I am ever present; it is my own
reality that I impart to the present event.
Q: But we deal with things remembered as if they
were real.
M: We consider memories, only when they come
into the present The forgotten is not counted until
one is reminded -- which implies, bringing into the
now.
Q: Yes, I can see there is in the now some unknown K: Igen, gy ltom, hogy a mostban van valamilyen
factor that gives momentary reality to the transient ismeretlen tnyez, amely a mlkony aktualits
actuality. szmra pillanatnyi realitst biztost.
M: You need not say it is unknown, for you see it in
11
elfogadst rtek jnni hagyni, ami jn, menni
hagyni, ami megy. Ne vgyj, ne flj, figyeld meg ami
van, ahogyan s amikor az trtnik, mert te nem az
vagy, ami trtnik, hanem az vagy, akinek az
trtnik. Vgs soron mg a megfigyel sem te
vagy. Te a vgs potencialits vagy, aminek a
mindent fellel tudatossg a megnyilvnulsa s
kifejezdse.
K: De a test s az n kztt ott van a gondolatok s
rzsek felhje, amely nem szolglja sem a
testnek, sem az nnek. Ezek a gondolatok s
rzsek gyengk, tmenetiek s rtelmetlenek,
mer mentlis por, amely vakt, s fullaszt, st
zavaros s rombol.
M: Nyilvnval, hogy az esemny emlke nem
felelhet meg magnak az esemnynek. Az
elreltsa sem. Van valami kivteles, egyedlll,
ami a jelenben zajl esemnyhez kapcsoldik,
amivel a megelz vagy az elkvetkez nem
rendelkezik. lettelisg, realits jellemzi; lesen
kirajzoldik, mintha ki lenne vilgtva. A jelenlegi
magn viseli a realits blyegt, amivel a mlt s a
jv nem rendelkezik.
K: Mi ragasztja a jelenre a realits blyegt?
M: Nincs semmilyen sajtossga a jelenben zajl
esemnynek, ami a mlthoz vagy a jvhz kpest
mss tenn. Egy pillanatra a mlt jelen volt, s a
jv hasonlkppen azz fog vlni. Mi teszi a jelent
annyira mss? Nyilvnvalan az n jelenltem. n
a magam szmra mindig most vagyok valsgos, a
jelenben, s ami velem van, most osztozik a
realitsomban. A mlt az emlkezetben van, a jv
a kpzeletben. Magban a jelen esemnyben
semmi olyan nincs, ami azt valsgg tenn.
Tekintsnk valamilyen egyszer, periodikus
esemnyt, pl. az ratst. Ismereteink dacra,
miszerint az egymst kvet tsek egyformk, a
jelenben hallatsz ts meglehetsen klnbzik az
elztl s a kvetkeztl ahogy emlkeztnk,
vagy elvrtuk. A jelen gyjtpontjban lv dolog
velem van, mert n rkk jelen vagyok; az n sajt
realitsom az, ami a jelen esemnyhez addik.
K: De mi gy tekintjk az emlkeinkben lv
dolgokat, mintha azok tnylegesek lennnek.
M: Csak akkor trdnk az emlkekkel, amikor azok
belpnek a jelenbe. Az elfeledett dolog nem szmt
addig, amg nem emlkeznk r vagyis a mostba
nem hozzuk.
M: Azrt mert lland mkdsben lvnek ltod,
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
constant operation. Since you were born, has it ever
changed? Things and thoughts have been changing
all the time. But the feeling that what is now is real
has never changed, even in dream.
Q: In deep sleep there is no experience of the
present reality.
M: The blankness of deep sleep is due entirely to
the lack of specific memories. But a general memory
of well-being is there. There is a difference in feeling
when we say I was deeply asleep from I was
absent.
Q: We shall repeat the question we began with:
between lifes source and lifes expression (which is
the body), there is the mind and its ever-changeful
states. The stream of mental states is endless,
meaningless and painful. Pain is the constant factor.
What we call pleasure is but a gap, an interval
between two painful states. Desire and fear are the
weft and warp of living, and both are made of pain.
Our question is: can there be a happy mind?
M: Desire is the memory of pleasure and fear is the
memory of pain. Both make the mind restless.
Moments of pleasure are merely gaps in the stream
of pain. How can the mind be happy?
Q: That is true when we desire pleasure or expect
pain. But there are moments of unexpected,
unanticipated joy. Pure joy, uncontaminated by
desire -- unsought, undeserved, God-given.
M: Still, joy is joy only against a background of pain.
Q: Is pain a cosmic fact, or purely mental?
M: The universe is complete and where there is
completeness, where nothing lacks, what can give
pain?
Q: The Universe may be complete as a whole, but
incomplete in details.
M: A part of the whole seen in relation to the whole
is also complete. Only when seen in isolation it
becomes deficient and thus a seat of pain. What
makes for isolation?
Q: Limitations of the mind, of course. The mind
cannot see the whole for the part.
M: Good enough. The mind, by its very nature,
divides and opposes. Can there be some other
12
nem kell azt mondanod, hogy ismeretlen.
Szletsed ta vltozott-e egyszer is? A dolgok s
gondolatok folyton vltoznak. De az rzs, hogy ami
most van az relis, soha nem vltozott, mg
lomban sem.
K: Mly lomban nem tapasztalhat a jelen
realitsa.
M: A mly lom ressge kizrlag a specifikus
emlkek hinynak ksznhet. Jelen van viszont a
jlt ltalnos emlke. Klnbsget tesznk a
mlyen aludtam, s a nem voltam jelen
rzsben.
K: Trjnk vissza kezdeti krdsnkre: az let
forrsa s az let kifejezdse (a test) kztt ott van
az elme, s annak folyton vltoz llapota. A
mentlis llapotok ramlata vg nlkli, rtelmetlen
s szenvedssel teli. A szenveds az lland
tnyez. Amit mi lvezetnek neveznk, az csupn
kt fjdalmas llapot kztti hzag, sznet. Az let
szvete s fonala a vgy s a flelem, s mindkett
szenvedst hoz ltre. Azt krdezzk: lehetsges-e
boldog elme?
M: A vgy az lvezet emlke s a flelem a fjdalom
emlke. Mindkett nyugtalann teszi az elmt. Az
lvezet pillanatai csupn hzagok a szenveds
folyamban. Hogyan lehetne az elme boldog?
K: Ez akkor igaz, ha lvezetre vgyunk, vagy
fjdalomra szmtunk. De vannak olyan pillanatok is,
amikor vratlanul jn, nem ltjuk elre az rmt.
Tiszta rm, vgytl romlatlan kretlen, ki nem
rdemelt, Isten-adta.
M: Az rm mgis csak a fjdalom httervel
szembeni rm.
K: A szenveds kozmikus dolog, vagy csupn
mentlis?
M: A mindensg teljes, s ahol teljessg van, ahol
semmi nem hinyzik, mi okozhat szenvedst?
K: Lehet a Mindensg teljes, mint egsz, de
rszleteiben tkletlen.
M: Az egsz kpnek a rsze is teljes, az egszhez
viszonytva. Csak akkor vlik hinyoss, s gy a
szenveds szkhelyv, ha elszigetelten vizsglod.
Mi az elszigeteltsg oka?
K: Az elme korltai, termszetesen. Az elme nem
ltja az egszet a rszek miatt.
M: gy van. Az elme, valsgos termszete szerint,
sztvlaszt s ellenttbe llt. Vannak msmilyen
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
mind, which unites and harmonises, which sees the elmk, amelyek egyestenek s harmonizlnak,
whole in the part and the part as totally related to the amelyek a rszben ltjk az egszet, s a rszt az
whole?
Q: The other mind -- where to look for it?
M: In the going beyond the limiting, dividing and
opposing mind. In ending the mental process as we
know it. When this comes to an end, that mind is
born.
Q: In that mind, the problem of joy and sorrow exist
no longer?
M: Not as we know them, as desirable or repugnant.
It becomes rather a question of love seeking
expression and meeting with obstacles. The
inclusive mind is love in action, battling against
circumstances, initially frustrated, ultimately
victorious.
Q: Between the spirit and the body, is it love that
provides the bridge?
M: What else? Mind creates the abyss, the heart
crosses it.
4. Real World is Beyond the Mind
Questioner: On several occasions the question was
raised as to whether the universe is subject to the
law of causation, or does it exist and function
outside the law. You seem to hold the view that it is
uncaused, that everything, however small, is
uncaused, arising and disappearing for no known
reason whatsoever.
Maharaj: Causation means succession in time of
events in space, the space being physical or mental.
Time, space, causation are mental categories,
arising and subsiding with the mind.
Q: As long as the mind operates, causation is a valid K: Amg az elme mkdik, az oksg rvnyes
law.
M: Like everything mental, the so-called law of
causation contradicts itself. No thing in existence
has a particular cause; the entire universe
contributes to the existence of even the smallest
thing; nothing could be as it is without the universe
being what it is. When the source and ground of
everything is the only cause of everything, to speak
of causality as a universal law is wrong. The
universe is not bound by its content, because its
potentialities are infinite; besides it is a
manifestation, or expression of a principle
fundamentally and totally free.
egsszel teljesen sszefgg dologknt ltjk?
K: Msmilyen elme hol lehet olyat tallni?
M: A korltoz, megoszt s szembellt elmt
meghaladsban. Az ltalunk ismert mentlis
folyamat vgn. Amikor ennek vge, akkor szletik
meg az elme.
K: Abban az elmben nem ltezik tbb az rm s
bnat problmja?
M: Nem, ahogyan mi ezeket ismerjk, kvnatosknt
vagy ellenszenvesknt. Inkbb a kifejezs, s az
akadlyokkal val szembesls szeretetnek
krdsv vlik. Az ezt tartalmaz elme cselekv
szeretetknt harcol a krlmnyek ellen, kezdetben
hasztalanul, vgl gyzedelmesen.
K: A szellem s a test kztt a szeretet ltesti a
hidat?
M: Mi ms? Az elme hozza ltre a szakadkot, a
szv hidalja azt t.
4. A valdi vilg az elmn tl van
Krdez: Szmtalanszor felmerl krds, hogy az
univerzum az oksg trvnynek van alvetve, vagy
pedig e trvnytl fggetlenl ltezik s mkdik.
gy tnik, hogy te az ok nlklisg prtjn llsz,
hogy minden, brmennyire kis dolog is nmagtl
val, keletkezse s elmlsa mindenfle ismert
magyarzat hjn van.
Maharaj: Az oksg a trbeli esemnyek idbeni
egymsutnisgt jelenti, legyen a tr fizikai vagy
mentlis. Id, tr, oksg, mind mentlis kategria,
amelyek az elmvel keletkeznek, s mlnak el.
trvny.
M: Mint minden mentlis dolog, az gynevezett
oksg trvnye is ellentmond nmagnak. A ltez
dolgoknak nincs egyedi oka; a teljes univerzum
kzremkdik, mg a legkisebb dolog ltezse
esetn is; emiatt semmi nem lehetne az ami, az
univerzum nlkl. Amikor mindennek a forrsa s az
alapja azonos, akkor oksgrl, mint univerzlis
trvnyrl beszlni helytelen. Az univerzum nem
korltozott sajt tartalma ltal, mivel lehetsgei
vgtelenek; ezenkvl alapvet s teljesen szabad
elvek megnyilvnulsa, vagy kifejezse.
13
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: Yes, one can see that ultimately to speak of one
thing being the only cause of another thing is
altogether wrong. Yet, in actual life we invariably
initiate action with a view to a result.
M: Yes, there is a lot of such activity going on,
because of ignorance. 'Would people know that
nothing can happen unless the entire universe
makes it happen, they would achieve much more
with less expenditure of energy.
Q: If everything is an expression of the totality of
causes, how can we talk of a purposeful action
towards an achievement?
M: The very urge to achieve is also an expression of
the total universe. It merely shows that the energy
potential has risen at a particular point. It is the
illusion of time that makes you talk of causality.
When the past and the future are seen in the
timeless now, as parts of a common pattern, the
idea of cause-effect loses its validity and creative
freedom takes its place.
Q: Yet, I cannot see how can anything come to be
without a cause.
M: When I say a thing is without a cause, I mean it
can be without a particular cause. Your own mother
was needed to give you birth; But you could not
have been born without the sun and the earth. Even
these could not have caused your birth without your
own desire to be born. It is desire that gives birth,
that gives name and form. The desirable is imagined
and wanted and manifests itself as something
tangible or conceivable. Thus is created the world in
which we live, our personal world. The real world is
beyond the mind's ken; we see it through the net of
our desires, divided into pleasure and pain, right and
wrong, inner and outer. To see the universe as it is,
you must step beyond the net. It is not hard to do so,
for the net is full of holes.
Q: What do you mean by holes? And how to find
them?
M: Look at the net and its many contradictions. You
do and undo at every step. You want peace, love,
happiness and work hard to create pain, hatred and
war. You want longevity and overeat, you want
friendship and exploit. See your net as made of such
contradictions and remove them -- your very seeing
them will make them go.
14
K: Igen, vgtre is belthat, hogy teljesen hibs azt
mondani, hogy valamely dolog lte egyedli okozja
egy msik dolognak. A valsgos letben mgis
mindig cselekedni kezdnk, ha eredmnyt akarunk
elrni.
M: Igen, sok ilyen tevkenysg folyik a tudatlansg
miatt. Ha az emberek tudnk, hogy semmi nem
trtnhet meg csak akkor, ha azt a teljes univerzum
lehetv teszi, akkor sokkal tbbet rnnek el,
kevesebb energia rfordtsval.
K: Ha minden az oksgi totalits kifejezdse, akkor
hogyan beszlhetnk valamely eredmny fel
mutat szndkos tevkenysgrl?
M: Valjban a cl elrsnek a knyszere is a
teljes univerzum kifejezdse. Csupn azt mutatja,
hogy az energia potencil bizonyos szintre
emelkedett. Az id illzija ksztet arra, hogy az
oksgrl beszlj. A mltat s a jvt az idtlen
mostban tekintve, egy ltalnos minta rszeiknt, az
oksgi elv elveszti rvnyessgt, s a kreatv
szabadsg foglalja el a helyt.
K: Mg mindig nem rtem, hogyan tud brmi ok
nlkl bekvetkezni.
M: Amikor azt mondom, hogy egy dolog ok nlkli,
azt gy rtem, hogy ltezhet egyni ok nlkl.
Szksg volt desanydra, hogy letet adjon neked;
nem szlethettl volna meg a Nap s a Fld nlkl.
De mindezek nem idzhettk volna el a
szletsedet a te megszletsre irnyul vgyad
nlkl. A vgy az, ami megszl, az adja a nevet s a
formt. Bekvetkezik a kvnatos elkpzelse s
akarsa, s valamilyen tapinthatknt vagy
elkpzelhetknt manifesztlja magt. gy
keletkezett a vilg, amelyben lnk, a mi szemlyes
vilgunk. A vals vilg az elme ltkrn tl van; mi
vgyaink ftyln keresztl ltjuk, felosztva azt
rmre s fjdalomra, jra s rosszra, belsre s
klsre. Ahhoz, hogy gy lssuk az univerzumot,
amilyen az valjban, a ftyol mg kell lpni. Nem
olyan nehz ezt megtenni, mert a ftyol tele van
lyukakkal.
K: Mit rtesz lyukakon? s hogy lehet ket
megtallni?
M: Vedd szemgyre a hlt s annak szmtalan
ellentmondst. Alkotsz s rombolsz minden egyes
lpssel. Bkt akarsz, szeretetet, boldogsgot, s
kemnyen dolgozol, hogy szenvedst, gylletet s
hbort hozz teremts. Hossz letet akarsz s
tleszed magad, bartsgot akarsz s kihasznlod a
msikat. Tekintsd olyb a ftyladat, mint ami ilyen
ellentmondsokbl kszlt, s tvoltsd el ket ha
valban ltod ket, el fognak tnni.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: Since my seeing the contradiction makes it go, is
there no causal link between my seeing and its
going?
M: Causality, even as a concept, does not apply to
chaos.
Q: To what extent is desire a causal factor?
M: One of the many. For everything there are
innumerable causal factors. But the source of all that
is, is the Infinite Possibility, the Supreme Reality,
which is in you and which throws its power and light
and love on every experience. But, this source is not
a cause and no cause is a source. Because of that, I
say everything is uncaused. You may try to trace
how a thing happens, but you cannot find out why a
thing is as it is. A thing is as it is, because the
universe is as it is.
5. What is Born must Die
Questioner: Is the witness-consciousness
permanent or not?
Maharaj: It is not permanent. The knower rises and
sets with the known. That in which both the knower
and the known arise and set, is beyond time. The
words permanent or eternal do not apply.
Q: In sleep there is neither the known, nor the
knower. What keeps the body sensitive and
receptive?
M: Surely you cannot say the knower was absent.
The experience of things and thoughts was not
there, that is all. But the absence of experience too
is experience. It is like entering a dark room and
saying: 'I see nothing'. A man blind from birth knows
not what darkness means. Similarly, only the knower
knows that he does not know. Sleep is merely a
lapse in memory. Life goes on.
Q: And what is death?
M: It is the change in the living process of a
particular body. Integration ends and disintegration
sets in.
Q: But what about the knower. With the
disappearance of the body, does the knower
disappear?
M: Just as the knower of the body appears at birth,
so he disappears at death.
15
K: Ha ltom az ellentmondsokat, s ez eltnteti
azokat, nincs-e oksgi kapcsolat ltsom s
eltnsk kztt?
M: Az oksg, ppen gy, mint a fogalom, nem
rvnyes az skoszra.
K: A vgy mennyire okozati tnyez?
M: Egy a sok kzl. Mert minden dolognak
szmtalan okozati tnyezje van. De a forrsa
mindennek egy, a benned lv Vgtelen Lehetsg,
a Legfelsbb Valsg, amely erejt, fnyt s
szeretett minden tapasztalatra rvetti. De ez a
forrs nem ok, s az okok egyike sem forrs. Emiatt
mondom, hogy minden nmagtl val.
Megprblhatod nyomon kvetni, hogyan trtnik
valamely dolog, de nem fogod tudni felfedezni, hogy
az a dolog mirt gy van, ahogy van. Egy dolog
azrt van gy, ahogy van, mert az univerzum olyan,
amilyen.
5. Ami megszletett, meg is kell halnia
Krdez: A tan-tudatossg lland, vagy sem?
Maharaj: Nem lland. A tud a tudottal egytt
keletkezik, s mlik el. Az, amiben mind a tud,
mind a tudott keletkezik s elmlik, az idn tl van.
Az lland vagy rk szavak itt nem rvnyesek.
K: Alvs kzben nincs sem tudott, sem tud. Mi
tartja meg a test rzkenysgt s fogkonysgt?
M: Azt nyilvnvalan nem llthatod, hogy a tud
nem ltezett. Nem tapasztaltl dolgokat s
gondolatokat, ez minden. De a tapasztalat hinya is
tapasztalat. Ez ahhoz hasonl, mint amikor belpsz
egy stt szobba, s azt mondod, hogy nem ltok
semmit. A szletstl vak ember nem ismeri a
sttsg jelentst. Hasonlkppen, csak a tud
tudja, hogy nem tud. Az alvs csupn egy
kihagys az emlkezetben. Az let megy tovbb.
K: s mi a hall?
M: Ez egy konkrt test letfolyamatban
bekvetkez vltozs. Az integrci megsznik, s
kezdett veszi a sztess.
K: De mi trtnik a tudval? A test elmlsval a
tud is semmiv lesz?
M: Ahogy a test tudja a szletskor megjelenik,
gy a hallkor eltnik.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: And nothing remains?
M: Life remains. Consciousness needs a vehicle
and an instrument for its manifestation. When life
produces another body, another knower comes into
being,
Q: Is there a causal link between the successive
bodyknowers, or body-minds?
M: Yes, there is something that may be called the
memory body, or causal body, a record of all that
was thought, wanted and done. It is like a cloud of
images held together
Q: What is this sense of a separate existence?
M: It is a reflection in a separate body of the one
reality. In this reflection the unlimited and the limited
are confused and taken to be the same. To undo
this confusion is the purpose of Yoga.
Q: Does not death undo this confusion?
M: In death only the body dies. Life does not,
consciousness does not, reality does not. And the
life is never so alive as after death.
Q: But does one get reborn?
M: What was born must die. Only the unborn is
deathless. Find what is it that never sleeps and
never wakes, and whose pale reflection is our sense
of 'I'.
Q: How am I to go about this finding out?
M: How do you go about finding anything? By
keeping your mind and heart in it. Interest there
must be and steady remembrance. To remember
what needs to be remembered is the secret of
success. You come to it through earnestness.
Q: Do you mean to say that mere wanting to find out K: Azt lltod, hogy elegend a megtalls puszta
is enough? Surely, both qualifications and
opportunities are needed.
M: These will come with earnestness. What is
supremely important is to be free from
contradictions: the goal and the way must not be on
different levels; life and light must not quarrel;
behaviour must not betray belief. Call it honesty,
integrity, wholeness; you must not go back, undo,
uproot, abandon the conquered ground. Tenacity of
purpose and honesty in pursuit will bring you to your
goal.
K: s semmi nem marad fenn?
M: Az let fennmarad. A tudatossgnak szksge
van egy hordozra, s egy eszkzre, a
megnyilvnulshoz. Amikor az let teremt egy
msik testet, megszletik egy msik tud.
K: Van-e okozati kapcsolat az egymsra kvetkez
test-tudk vagy test-elmk kztt?
M: Igen, ltezik valami olyasmi, amit emlkezet-
testnek, vagy kauzlis testnek nevezhetnk, amely
minden olyan dolgot feljegyzett, amit gondoltunk,
akartunk s tettnk. Ez valamifle egysgbe foglalt
kpek tmege.
K: Miben ll az nll ltezs rzete?
M: Ez az egyetlen valsg elklnlt testknt val
tkrzdse. Ebben a tkrzdsben a korltlan s
a korltos sszekeveredjk, s azonosnak hisszk.
E felforduls helyrelltsa Yoga a clja.
K: A hall nem lltja helyre ezt az felfordulst?
M: A hallban csak a test hal meg. Az let nem hal
meg, a tudatossg sem, a valsg sem. s az let
soha nem olyan eleven, mint a hall utn.
K: De jjszletik az ember?
M: A szletettnek meg kell halnia. Csak a nem-
szletett halhatatlan. Talld meg azt, ami soha nem
alszik, s soha nem bred, s akinek n rzetnk a
halvny visszfnye?
K: Hogyan lssak neki a keressnek?
M: Hogyan igyekszel megtallni valamit? Elmdet s
szvedet benne tartva. Legyen benned rdekelds,
s llhatatossg az emlkezetben. szben tartani,
amire emlkezni kell ez a siker titka. El fogod rni,
kell komolysg rvn.
akarsa? Szerintem mind kpessgre, mind
lehetsgre szksg van.
M: Ezek meg fognak rkezni a komolysggal. Ami a
leginkbb fontos, hogy legyl mentes az
ellentmondsoktl: a cl s az t nem lehetnek
klnbz szinteken; az let s a fny nem lehetnek
egymsnak ellensgei; a magatarts nem lehet
rulja a meggyzdsnek. Nevezd tisztessgnek,
integritsnak, teljessgnek; nem szabad
visszalpned, nem szabad visszacsinlnod, nem
szabad kitpned a gykert, nem szabad elhagynod
a meghdtott terepet. Szndkod llhatatossga,
s szintesged a trekvsben, el fog juttatni a
16
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: Tenacity and honesty are endowments, surely.
Not a trace of them I have.
M: All will come as you go on. Take the first step
first. All blessings come from within. Turn within. 'l
am' you know. Be with it all the time you can spare,
until you revert to it spontaneously. There is no
simpler and easier way.
6. Meditation
Questioner: All teachers advise to meditate. What
is the purpose of meditation?
Maharaj: We know the outer world of sensations
and actions, but of our inner world of thoughts and
feelings we know very little. The primary purpose of
meditation is to become conscious of, and familiar
with, our inner life. The ultimate purpose is to reach
the source of life and consciousness.
Incidentally practice of meditation affects deeply our
character. We are slaves to what we do not know; of
what we know we are masters. Whatever vice or
weakness in ourselves we discover and understand
its causes and its workings, we overcome it by the
very knowing; the unconscious dissolves when
brought into the conscious. The dissolution of the
unconscious releases energy; the mind feels
adequate and become quiet.
Q: What is the use of a quiet mind?
M: When the mind is quiet, we come to know
ourselves as the pure witness. We withdraw from
the experience and its experiencer and stand apart
in pure awareness, which is between and beyond
the two. The personality, based on self-identification,
on imagining oneself to be something: 'I am this, I
am that', continues, but only as a part of the
objective world. Its identification with the witness
snaps.
Q: As I can make out, I live on many levels and life
on each level requires energy. The self by its very
nature delights in everything and its energies flow
outwards. Is it not the purpose of meditation to dam
up the energies on the higher levels, or to push them
back and up, so as to enable the higher levels to
prosper also?
M: It is not so much the matter of levels as of gunas
(qualities). Meditation is a sattvic activity and aims at
complete elimination of tamas (inertia) and rajas
(motivity). Pure sattva (harmony) is perfect freedom
17
clodhoz.
K: llhatatossg s becsletessg, bizonyosan.
Nyomuk sincs bennem.
M: Jnni fognak, ahogy haladsz. Elszr az els
lpst kell meglpni. Minden lds bellrl jn.
Fordulj befel. Az n vagyok fel. Lgy vele,
amikor csak idd engedi, mg spontn mdon nem
trsz vissza hozz. Nem ltezik egyszerbb s
knnyebb t.
6. Meditci
Krdez: Minden tant meditcit javasol. Mi a
clja a meditcinak?
Maharaj: Az rzkels s trtns kls vilgt
ismerjk, de a gondolkods s rzs bels vilgrl
nagyon keveset tudunk. A meditci elsdleges
clja, hogy tudatostsuk s megismerjk bels
letnket. A vgs cl az, hogy eljussunk az letnek
s a tudatossgnak forrshoz.
Egybknt a meditci gyakorlsa mlyen hat a
szemlyisgnkre. Amit nem tudunk annak szolgi
vagyunk; amit tudunk, annak mesterei. Brmilyen
hibt vagy gyengesget felfedeznk magunkban, s
megrtjk annak okait s mkdst, tkletes
ismerete rvn rr lesznk rajta; a tudattalan a
tudatosba emelkedve szertefoszlik. A tudattalan
megsznse felszabadtja az energikat; az elme
adekvtnak s elcsendesltnek rzi magt.
K: Mire hasznlhat a csendes elme?
M: Amikor az elme csendes, nmagunkat a tiszta
tanknt ismerjk fel. Visszavonulunk a
tapasztalatbl s annak tapasztaljbl, s a kett
kztt s fltt ll tiszta, legfelsbb tudatossgg
vlunk. Tovbbra is megmarad az nazonossg
alapjn nmagt valaminek kpzel szemlyisg:
n ez vagyok, n az vagyok, de csupn az objektv
vilg rszeknt. A tanval val nazonosulsa
megszakad.
K: Felfogsom szerint n tbb szinten lek, s az
let minden szintjn energira van szksgem. Az
n, termszete szerint, valjban mindenben
rmt leli, s energii a klvilg fel ramolnak.
Nem az a meditci clja, hogy az energit
magasabb szintre emelje, vagy, hogy vissza- s
felnyomja, hogy lehetv tegye a felsbb szintek
prosperlst is?
M: Ez nem annyira a szintek problmja, mint
inkbb a gunk (minsgek). A meditci
szattvikus tevkenysg, aminek a clja a tamasz
(tehetetlensg) s a rajasz (mozgkonysg) teljes
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
from sloth and restlessness.
Q: How to strengthen and purify the sattva?
M: The sattva is pure and strong always. It is like the
sun. It may seem obscured by clouds and dust, but
only from the point of view of the perceiver. Deal
with the causes of obscuration, not with the sun.
Q: What is the use of sattva?
M: What is the use of truth, goodness, harmony,
beauty? They are their own goal. They manifest
spontaneously and effortlessly, when things are left
to themselves, are not interfered with, not shunned,
or wanted, or conceptualised, but just experienced in
full awareness, such awareness itself is sattva. It
does not make use of things and people -- it fulfils
them.
Q: Since I cannot improve sattva, am I to deal with
tamas and rajas only? How can I deal with them?
M: By watching their influence in you and on you. Be
aware of them in operation, watch their expressions
in your thoughts, words and deeds, and gradually
their grip on you will lessen and the clear light of
sattva will emerge. It is neither difficult, nor a
protracted process; earnestness is the only condition
of success.
7. The Mind
Questioner: There are very interesting books
written by apparently very competent people, in
which the illusoriness of the world is denied (though
not its transitoriness). According to them, there
exists a hierarchy of beings, from the lowest to the
highest; on each level the complexity of the
organism enables and reflects the depth, breadth
and intensity of consciousness, without any visible
or knowable culmination. One law supreme rules
throughout: evolution of forms for the growth and
enrichment of consciousness and manifestation of
its infinite potentialities.
Maharaj: This may or may not be so. Even if it is, it
is only so from the minds point of view, but In fact
the entire universe (mahadakash) exists only in
consciousness (chidakash), while I have my stand in
the Absolute (paramakash). In pure being
consciousness arises; in consciousness the world
appears and disappears. All there is is me, all there
is is mine. Before all beginnings, after all endings -- I
am. All has its being in me, in the I am, that shines
18
megszntetse. A tiszta szattva (harmnia) a
tunyasgtl s a nyugtalansgtl val tkletes
szabadsgot jelenti.
K: Hogyan kell a szattvt ersteni s tiszttani?
M: A szattva mindig tiszta s ers. Olyan, mint a
nap. Ha a felhktl s portl homlyosnak ltszik, az
csak az szlel szempontjbl van gy. Foglalkozz a
homly okaival, ne a nappal.
K: Mi a haszna szattvnak?
M: Mi a haszna az igazsgnak, jsgnak,
harmninak, szpsgnek? Ezek nmagukrt valk.
Spontn s erfeszts nlkl megnyilvnulnak
amikor a dolgokat bkn hagyjuk, nem gtoljuk, nem
kerljk, vagy akarjuk, vagy konceptualizljuk,
hanem csak teljes tudatossggal tapasztaljuk ket,
az ilyen legfelsbb tudatossg maga a szattva. Nem
jr haszonnal a dolgok s emberek szmra
beteljesti ket.
K: Miutn a szattva teht nem fejleszthet, csak a
tamasszal s a rajasszal kell trdnm? Hogyan
tudok velk foglalkozni?
M: A benned s rajtad okozott hatsuk
megfigyelsvel. Lgy tudatban mkdsknek,
figyeld kifejezdsket gondolataidban, szavaidban
s tetteidben, s rd gyakorolt hatsuk fokozatosan
cskkenni fog, s a szattva tiszta fnye megjelenik.
Ez sem nem bonyolult, sem nem hosszadalmas
eljrs; siker egyetlen felttele a komolysg.
7. Az elme
Krdez: Ltszlag nagyon hozzrt emberek
nagyon rdekes knyveket rtak, amelyekben
tagadjk, hogy a vilg illuzi (habr azt nem, hogy
mlandsg). Szerintk a lnyek egy hierarchiba
sorolhatk, a legalacsonyabb rendtl a
legmagasabb rendig; az organizmus bonyolultsga
minden szinten a tudatossg adott mlysgt,
emelkedettsgt s intenzitst teszi lehetv,
illetve tkrzi, lthat vagy megismerhet fels
korlt nlkl. Egyetlen legfelsbb trvny hat t
mindent: a formk evolcija a tudatossg
nvekedse s gyarapodsa, s vgtelen
lehetsgeinek kifejezsre jutsa rdekben.
Maharaj: Lehet, hogy gy van, lehet, hogy nem. De
ha gy is lenne, akkor is csak az elme nzpontjbl
lenne gy, valjban a teljes univerzum
(mahadakash) a tudatossgban (chidakash) ltezik
csupn, n ellenben az Abszoltban (paramakash)
tartzkodom. A tiszta ltezsben megjelenik a
tudatossg; a tudatossgban jelenik meg, s mlik
el a vilg. Minden, ami van, n vagyok, minden, ami
van, az enym. Minden kezdetek eltt, minden
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
in every living being. Even not-being is unthinkable
without me. Whatever happens, I must be there to
witness it.
Q: Why do you deny being to the world?
M: I do not negate the world. I see it as appearing in M: n nem tagadom a vilgot. gy ltom, ahogy
consciousness, which is the totality of the known in
the immensity of the unknown.
What begins and ends is mere appearance. The
world can be said to appear, but not to be. The
appearance may last very long on some scale of
time, and be very short on another, but ultimately it
comes to the same. Whatever is time bound is
momentary and has no reality.
Q: Surely, you see the actual world as it surrounds
you. You seem to behave quite normally.
M: That is how it appears to you. What in your case
occupies the entire field of consciousness, is a mere
speck in mine. The world lasts, but for a moment. It
is your memory that makes you think that the world
continues. Myself, I don't live by memory. I see the
world as it is, a momentary appearance in
consciousness.
Q: In your consciousness?
M: All idea of me and mine, even of I am is in
consciousness.
Q: Is then your absolute being (paramakash) un-
consciousness?
M: The idea of un-consciousness exists in
consciousness only.
Q: Then, how do you know you are in the supreme
state?
M: Because I am in it. It is the only natural state.
Q: Can you describe it?
M: Only by negation, as uncaused, independent,
unrelated, undivided, uncomposed, unshakable,
unquestionable, unreachable by effort. Every
positive definition is from memory and, therefore,
inapplicable. And yet my state is supremely actual
and, therefore, possible, realisable, attainable.
vgek utn n vagyok. Minden ltez bennem
van, az n vagyok-ban, ami benne ragyog minden
llnyben. Mg a nemltezs is elgondolhatatlan
nlklem. Akrmi trtnik, n ott kell legyek, hogy
tanja legyek.
K: Mirt tagadod a vilg ltezst?
megjelenik a tudatossgban, amely az ismert
sszessge az ismeretlen vgtelensgben.
Aminek kezdete van s vge, csupn megjelens. A
vilgrl lehet mondani, hogy megjelenik, de azt nem,
hogy ltezik. A megjelens nagyon hossz ideig
eltarthat, bizonyos idskln, s lehet nagyon rvid,
egy msikon, de vgs soron ugyanoda rkezik.
Minden ami idfgg, az pillanatnyi, s nem
valsgos.
K: De te is biztos, hogy ltod a tged krlvev
valsgos vilgot. Egszen normlisnak ltszik a
viselkedsed.
M: Ez szmodra tnik gy. Ami a te esetedben a
tudatossg teljes tert betlti, az enymben csupn
egy szikra. A vilg egy pillanatig tart. Az
emlkezeted miatt gondolod folyamatosnak a
vilgot. Ami engem illet, n nem emlkezet alapjn
lek. n annak ltom a vilgot, ami, egy pillanatnyi
megjelensnek a tudatossgban.
K: A te tudatossgodban?
M: A nekem s enym fogalmai, de mg az n
vagyok- is, a tudatossgban vannak.
K: Akkor te abszolt ltez (paramakash) nem-
tudatossg vagy?
M: A nem-tudatossg fogalma csak a
tudatossgban ltezik.
K: Akkor honnan tudod, hogy a legfelsbb
llapotban vagy?
M: Mert abban vagyok. Ez az egyetlen termszetes
llapot.
K: Le tudod rni?
M: Csak tagadssal, gy, mint nmagtl valt,
fggetlent, semmivel kapcsolatban nem lvt,
osztatlant, forma nlklit, rendthetetlent,
ktsgbevonhatatlant, erfesztssel nem elrhett.
Minden pozitv definci az emlkezetbl ered, ezrt
alkalmazhatatlan. s llapotom mgis a legteljesebb
mrtkben valsgos, s ezrt lehetsges,
megvalsthat, elrhet.
19
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: Are you not immersed timelessly in an
abstraction?
M: Abstraction is mental and verbal and disappears
in sleep, or swoon; it reappears in time; I am in my
own state (swarupa) timelessly in the now. Past and
future are in mind only -- I am now.
Q: The world too is now.
M: Which world?
Q: The world around us.
M: It is your world you have in mind, not mine. What
do you know of me, when even my talk with you is in
your world only? You have no reason to believe that
my world is identical with yours. My world is real,
true, as it is perceived, while yours appears and
disappears, according to the state of your mind.
Your world is something alien, and you are afraid of
it. My world is myself. I am at home.
Q: If you are the world, how can you be conscious of K: Ha te vagy a vilg, hogyan lehetsz neki
it? Is not the subject of consciousness different from tudatban? A tudatossg alanya s trgya nem
its object?
M: Consciousness and the world appear and
disappear together, hence they are two aspects of
the same state.
Q: In sleep I am not, and the world continues.
M: How do you know?
Q: On waking up I come to know. My memory tells
me.
M: Memory is in the mind. The mind continues in
sleep.
Q: It is partly in abeyance.
M: But its world picture is not affected. As long as
the mind is there, your body and your world are
there. Your world is mind-made, subjective,
enclosed within the mind, fragmentary, temporary,
personal, hanging on the thread of memory.
Q: So is yours?
M: Oh no. I live in a world of realities, while yours is
of imagination. Your world is personal, private,
unshareable, intimately your own. Nobody can enter
it, see as you see, hear as you hear, feel your
emotions and think your thoughts. In your world you
are truly alone, enclosed in your ever-changing
dream, which you take for life. My world is an open
20
K: Nem vagy te belemerlve egy vgtelen
absztrakciba?
M: Az absztrakci mentlis s verblis, s alvsban
vagy julsban megsznik; egy id utn ismt
megjelenik; n a sajt llapotomban vagyok
(swarupa), idtlenl a mostban. Mlt s jv az
elmmben lteznek csak n most vagyok.
K: A vilg szintn most van.
M: Melyik vilg?
K: A krlttnk lv vilg.
M: A te vilgod, ami az elmdben van, nem az
enym. Mit tudsz rlam, mikor mg a veled val
beszlgetsem is csak a te vilgodban van? Nincs
okod azt hinni, hogy az n vilgom azonos a tiddel.
Az n vilgom valdi, igazi, olyan, amilyennek
szlelem, mg a tid megjelenik s eltnik, az elmd
llapotnak megfelelen. A te vilgod valami idegen,
s te rettegsz tle. Az n vilgom n magam
vagyok. n itthon vagyok.
klnbznek?
M: A tudatossg s a vilg egytt jelenik meg s
tnik el, ennl fogva egyazon llapot kt aspektusa.
K: Alvskor n nem vagyok, s a vilg folytatdik.
M: Honnan tudod?
K: bredskor a tudatra bredek. Az emlkezetem
mondja nekem.
M: Az emlkezet az elmben van. Az elme
megmarad alvs kzben.
K: Rszben felfggesztdik.
M: De vilgkpt ez nem rinti. Amg az elme jelen
van, addig tested s vilgod is jelen vannak. A
vilgod elme-alkotta, szubjektv, az elmbe zrt,
tredkes, idleges, szemlyes, az emlkezet
fonaln fgg.
K: A tied is ilyen?
M: , nem n a realitsok vilgban lek, mg te a
fantzia vilgban. A te vilgod szemlyes,
magntermszet, nem megoszthat, a te intim
sajtod. Senki nem lphet bele, hogy gy lsson,
ahogy te, gy halljon, ahogy te, rezze az
rzseidet, s gondolja a gondolataidat. A te
vilgodban igazbl te vagy egyedl, bezrva egy
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
world, common to all, accessible to all. In my world
there is community, insight, love, real quality; the
individual is the total, the totality -- in the individual.
All are one and the One is all.
Q: Is your world full of things and people as is mine? K: A te vilgod is tele van dolgokkal s emberekkel,
mint az enym?
M: No, it is full of myself.
Q: But do you see and hear as we do?
M: Yes, l appear to hear and see and talk and act,
but to me it just happens, as to you digestion or
perspiration happens. The body-mind machine looks
after it, but leaves me out of it. Just as you do not
need to worry about growing hair, so I need not
worry about words and actions. They just happen
and leave me unconcerned, for in my world nothing
ever goes wrong.
8. The Self Stands Beyond Mind
Questioner: As a child fairly often I experienced
states of complete happiness, verging on ecstasy:
later, they ceased, but since I came to India they
reappeared, particularly after I met you. Yet these
states, however wonderful, are not lasting. They
come and go and there is no knowing when they will
come back.
Maharaj: How can anything be steady in a mind
which itself is not steady?
Q: How can I make my mind steady?
M: How can an unsteady mind make itself steady?
Of course it cannot. It is the nature of the mind to
roam about. All you can do is to shift the focus of
consciousness beyond the mind.
Q: How is it done?
M: Refuse all thoughts except one: the thought 'I
am'. The mind will rebel in the beginning, but with
patience and perseverance it will yield and keep
quiet. Once you are quiet, things will begin to
happen spontaneously and quite naturally without
any interference on your part.
Q: Can I avoid this protracted battle with my mind?
M: Yes, you can. Just live your life as it comes, but
alertly, watchfully, allowing everything to happen
21
rkk vltoz lomba, amit letnek hiszel. Az n
vilgom nyitott vilg, mindenkinek ltalnos,
mindenkinek elrhet. Az n vilgomban kzssg,
belts, szeretet, valdi minsg van; az egyn
ugyanaz, mint a teljes egsz, a teljessg benne
van az egynben. Minden egy, s az Egy minden.
M: Nem, az velem van tele.
K: De ltsz s hallasz, mint ahogy mi?
M: Igen, ltszlag hallok s ltok, beszlek s
cselekszem, de ezek csak gy trtnnek nlam, mint
ahogy nlad az emszts vagy a verejtkezs
trtnik. A test-elme gpezet gondjt viseli, de
engem kihagy belle. Ahogy neked nem kell a haj
nvesztsvel veszdnd, gy nekem nem kell
veszdnm a szavakkal s a cselekvsekkel. Azok
csak megtrtnnek, s engem nem rintenek, mert
az n vilgomban soha semmi nem romlik el.
8. Az n az elmn tl van
Krdez: Gyermekknt elg gyakran tapasztaltam
tkletes, eksztzissal hatros boldogsg
llapotokat: ksbb ezek megszntek, de mita
Indiba jttem jra megjelentek, klnsen mita
veled tallkoztam. De ezek az llapotok brmilyen
csodlatosak, nem maradandak. Jnnek s
tvoznak, s nem lehet tudni, hogy mikor trnek
vissza.
Maharaj: Hogyan lehetne brmi lland egy
elmben, amely nmaga nem lland?
K: Hogyan tudnm az elmmet llhatatoss tenni?
M: Hogyan tudn egy llhatatlan elme llhatatoss
tenni magt? Termszetesen nem tudja. Az
elmnek termszete, hogy a kboroljon. Mindssze
annyit tehetsz, hogy a tudatossg fkuszt az elmn
tlra tolod.
K: Hogyan kell ezt csinlni?
M: Utasts vissza minden gondolatot, egyet kivve:
az n vagyok gondolatt. Az elme ellen fog llni
kezdetben, de trelem s kitarts esetn feladja, s
elcsendesedik. Amint elcsendesedtl, a dolgok
elkezdenek spontn s teljesen termszetes mdon
trtnni anlkl, hogy te brmi mdon beavatkoznl.
K: Elkerlhetem az elmmmel val hosszadalmas
kzdelmet?
M: Igen, elkerlheted. Csak ld az letedet, ahogy
az jn, de beren, figyelmesen, megengedve
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
as it happens, doing the natural things the natural
way, suffering, rejoicing -- as life brings. This also is
a way.
Q: Well, then I can as well marry, have children, run
a business be happy.
M: Sure. You may or may not be happy, take it in
your stride.
Q: Yet I want happiness.
M: True happiness cannot be found in things that
change and pass away. Pleasure and pain alternate
inexorably. Happiness comes from the self and can
be found in the self only. Find your real self
(swarupa) and all else will come with it.
Q: If my real self is peace and love, why is it so
restless?
M: It is not your real being that is restless, but its
reflection in the mind appears restless because the
mind is restless. It is just like the reflection of the
moon in the water stirred by the wind. The wind of
desire stirs the mind and the 'me', which is but a
reflection of the Self in the mind, appears changeful.
But these ideas of movement, of restlessness, of
pleasure and pain are all in the mind. The Self
stands beyond the mind, aware, but unconcerned.
Q: How to reach it?
M: You are the Self, here and now Leave the mind
alone, stand aware and unconcerned and you will
realise that to stand alert but detached, watching
events come and go, is an aspect of your real
nature.
Q: What are the other aspects?
M: The aspects are infinite in number. Realise one,
and you will realise all.
Q: Tell me some thing that would help me.
M: You know best what you need.
Q: I am restless. How can I gain peace?
M: For what do you need peace?
Q: To be happy.
M: Are you not happy now?
Q: No, I am not.
22
mindennek, hogy trtnjen, ahogy trtnik, a
termszetes dolgokat a termszetes mdon
vgezve, szenvedssel, vagy rmmel ahogy az
let hozza. Ez is egy t.
K: Szval, akkor meg is nslhetek, gyerekeim
lehetnek, zletet vezethetek boldog lehetek.
M: gy van. Lgy boldog, vagy boldogtalan, fogadd
termszetesen.
K: Mgiscsak a boldogsgot szeretnm.
M: A valdi boldogsg nem vltoz s ml
dolgokban tallhat. rm s fjdalom
krlelhetetlenl vltakoznak. Boldogsg csak az
nbl szrmazhat, s csak az nben tallhat.
Keresd valdi nmagad (swarupa), s minden ms
eljn vele.
K: Ha az n valdi nmagam a bke s a szeretet,
akkor mirt olyan nyugtalan?
M: Nem a valdi lnyed nyugtalan, hanem annak az
elmben val tkrzdse mutatkozik annak, az
elmd nyugtalansga miatt. Olyan ez, mint amikor a
vzen tkrzd holdfnyt megborzolja a szl. A
vgy szele megborzolja az elmt, s az n, amely
csak elmebeli tkrzdse az nnek,
vltozkonynak mutatkozik. De mindeme mozgs,
nyugtalansg, rm s fjdalom idek, mind az
elmben vannak. Az n az elme felett ll, beren,
de prtatlanul.
K: Hogyan rhetem el?
M: Te vagy az n, itt s most. Hagyd az elmt
bkn, lgy ber s semleges, s realizlni fogod,
hogy a ktds nlkli bersg, a jv-men
esemnyek szemllse, a te valdi termszeted egy
aspektusa.
K: Mi a tbbi aspektus?
M: Vgtelen sok aspektusa van. Ismerj fel egyet, s
mindet felismered.
K: Mondj valami olyasmit, ami segtsgemre lehet.
M: Te tudod legjobban, mire van szksged.
K: Nyugtalan vagyok. Hogy rhetem el a bkt?
M: Mirt van szksged bkre?
K: Hogy boldog legyek.
M: Most nem vagy boldog?
K: Nem, nem vagyok.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
M: What makes you unhappy?
Q: I have what I dont want, and want what I dont
have.
M: Why dont you invert it: want what you have and
care not for what you dont have?
Q: I want what is pleasant and dont want what is
painful.
M: How do you know what is pleasant and what is
not?
Q: From past experience, of course.
M: Guided by memory you have been pursuing the
pleasant and shunning the unpleasant. Have you
succeeded?
Q: No, I have not. The pleasant does not last. Pain
sets in again.
M: Which pain?
Q: The desire for pleasure, the fear of pain, both are K: Mind az lvezet irnti vgy, mind a fjdalomtl
states of distress. Is there a state of unalloyed
pleasure?
M: Every pleasure, physical or mental, needs an
instrument. Both the physical and mental
instruments are material, they get tired and worn
out. The pleasure they yield is necessarily limited in
intensity and duration. Pain is the background of all
your pleasures. You want them because you
suffer. On the other hand, the very search for
pleasure is the cause of pain. It is a vicious circle.
Q: I can see the mechanism of my confusion, but I
do not see my way out of it.
M: The very examination of the mechanism shows
the way. After all, your confusion is only in your
mind, which never rebelled so far against confusion
and never got to grips with it. It rebelled only
against pain.
Q: So, all I can do is to stay confused?
M: Be alert. Question, observe, investigate, learn all
you can about confusion, how it operates, what it
does to you and others. By being clear about
confusion you become clear of confusion.
Q: When I look into myself, I find my strongest
desire is to create a monument, to build something
which will outlast me. Even when I think of a home,
wife and child, it is because it is a lasting, solid,
23
M: Mi tesz boldogtalann?
K: Amim van, azt nem akarom, s azt akarom, amim
nincs.
M: Mirt nem fordtod meg: akard azt, amid van, s
ne rdekeljen az, amid nincs.
K: Akarom, ami kellemes, s nem akarom, ami
fjdalmas.
M: Honnan tudod, hogy mi kellemes s mi nem az?
K: A mltbeli tapasztalataim alapjn, termszetesen.
M: Emlkezettl vezettetve hajszoltad az lvezetet,
s kerlted a kellemetlent. Sikerrel jrtl?
K: Nem, nem jrtam. Az lvezet nem tarts. A
fjdalom jra beksznt.
M: Milyen fjdalom?
val flelem nyomorsgos llapot. Ltezik a tiszta
rm llapota?
M: Minden lvezethez, legyen az fizikai vagy
mentlis, eszkzre van szksg. Minden fizikai s
mentlis eszkz anyagi, elfradnak s
elhasznldnak. Az lvezet intenzitsban s
idtartamban szksgszeren korltozott. Minden
lvezetednek a fjdalom a httere. Azrt vgysz r,
mert szenvedsz. Msfell, az lvezet keressnek
valdi oka a fjdalom. Ez egy rdgi kr.
K: rtem az sszezavarodsom mechanizmust, de
nem ltom a kivezet utat.
M: Pontosan a mechanizmus vizsglata mutatja
meg az utat. Vgl is a zavar csak az elmdben
van, amely soha nem lzadt fel mostanig a
zrzavar ellen, s soha szllt szembe vele. Csak a
fjdalom ellen lzadt fel.
Q: Teht csak annyit tehetek, hogy vget vetek a
zavarodottsgnak?
M: Lgy ber. Krdezz, figyelj, vizsgldj, tudj meg
mindent a zrzavarrl, hogyan mkdik, mit okoz
neked s msoknak. Tisztba kerlvn a
zrzavarral, megtisztultt vlsz a zrzavartl.
K: Amikor magamba nzek, legersebb vgyamnak
azt ltom, hogy egy emlkmvet hozzak ltre, hogy
valami olyat ptsek, ami tl fog lni engem. Mg
amikor az otthonomra gondolok, a felesgemre s a
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
testimony to myself.
M: Right, build yourself a monument. How do you
propose to do it?
Q: It matters little what I build, as long as it is
permanent.
M: Surely, you can see for yourself that nothing is
permanent. All wears out, breaks down, dissolves.
The very ground on which you build gives way. What
can you build that will outlast all?
Q: Intellectually, verbally, I am aware that all is
transient. Yet, somehow my heart wants
permanency. I want to create something that lasts.
M: Then you must build it of something lasting. What M: Akkor azt valamilyen idtllbl kell ptened. Mi
have you that is lasting? Neither your body nor
mind will last. You must look elsewhere.
Q: I long for permanency, but I find it nowhere.
M: Are you, yourself, not permanent?
Q: I was born, I shall die.
M: Can you truly say you were not before you were
born and can you possibly say when dead: Now I
am no more? You cannot say from your own
experience that you are not. You can only say I am.
Others too cannot tell you you are not.
Q: There is no I am in sleep.
M: Before you make such sweeping statements,
examine carefully your waking state. You will soon
discover that it is full of gaps, when the min blanks
out. Notice how little you remember even when fully
awake. You just dont remember. A gap in memory
is not necessarily a gap in consciousness.
Q: Can I make myself remember my state of deep
sleep?
M: Of course. By eliminating the intervals of
inadvertence during your waking hours you will
gradually eliminate the long interval of absent-
mindedness, which you call sleep. You will be aware
that you are asleep.
Q: Yet, the problem of permanency, of continuity of
being, is not solved.
gyerekeimre, az is azrt van, mert ezek nmagam
maradand, szilrd tansgttelei.
M: Rendben, pts nmagadnak emlkmvet. Hogy
akarod azt megtenni?
K: Kevss szmt, hogy mit ptek, ameddig az
maradand.
M: Ktsg nlkl te magad is lthatod, hogy semmi
nem lland. Minden elhasznldik, eltrik,
szertefoszlik. Mg az alap is beomlik, amire ptesz.
Mi olyat pthetsz, ami mindent tll?
K: Intellektulisan, verblisan, tudatban vagyok
annak, hogy minden muland. A szvem valahogy
mgis llandsgra vgyik. Szeretnk valami
idtllt alkotni.
olyanod van, ami idtll? Sem a tested, sem az
elmd nem fog rkk fennmaradni. Mshol kell
keresned.
K: llandsg utn svrgok, de sehol nem tallom.
M: Te magad nem vagy lland?
K: Megszlettem, majd meghalok.
M: llthatod-e bizonyosan, hogy nem voltl, mieltt
megszlettl, s mondanod-e igazn a hallodkor:
mostantl nem vagyok tbb? Nem mondhatod
sajt tapasztalatod alapjn, hogy nem vagy. Csak
azt mondhatod, hogy n vagyok. Msok sem
mondhatjk neked, hogy te nem vagy.
K: Alvs kzben nincs n vagyok.
M: Mieltt ilyen tlsgosan somms lltsra
ragadtatod magad, vizsgld meg gondosan az
brenlti llapotodat. Hamarosan felfedezed, hogy
az tele van olyan hzagokkal, amikor az elme kirl.
Figyeld meg, hogy milyen kevsre emlkszel, fleg
mire teljesen felbredsz. Alig emlkszel valamire. Az
emlkezetbeli hzag nem szksgszeren jelent a
tudatossgban is hzagot.
K: Van r md, hogy emlkezzek a mly alvs alatti
llapotomra?
M: Termszetesen. brenlti rid figyelmetlensgi
intervallumainak a kikszblsvel fokozatosan ki
fogod kszblni a feledkenysg azon hossz
intervallumait, amelyet alvsnak nevezel. Tudatban
leszel, hogy alszol.
K: De az llandsgnak, a ltezs
folyamatossgnak a problmja ezzel mg nincs
megoldva.
24
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
M: Permanency is a mere idea, born of the action of
time. Time again depends of memory. By
permanency you mean unfailing memory through
endless time. You want to eternalise the mind, which
is not possible.
Q: Then what is eternal?
M: That which does not change with time. You
cannot eternalise a transient thing -- only the
changeless is eternal.
Q: I am familiar with the general sense of what you
say. I do not crave for more knowledge. All I want
is peace.
M: You can have for the asking all the peace you
want.
Q: I am asking.
M: You must ask with an undivided heart and live an M: Osztatlan szvvel kell krned, s teljes letet kell
integrated life. lned.
Q: How?
M: Detach yourself from all that makes your mind
restless. Renounce all that disturbs its peace. If you
want peace, deserve it.
Q: Surely everybody deserves peace.
M: Those only deserve it, who don't disturb it.
Q: In what way do I disturb peace?
M: By being a slave to your desires and fears.
Q: Even when they are justified?
M: Emotional reactions, born of ignorance or
inadvertence, are never justified. Seek a clear mind
and a clean heart. All you need is to keep quietly
alert, enquiring into the real nature of yourself. This
is the only way to peace.
9. Responses of Memory
Questioner: Some say the universe was created.
Others say that it always existed and is for ever
undergoing transformation. Some say it is subject to
eternal laws. Others deny even causality. Some say
the world is real. Others -- that it has no being
whatsoever.
25
M: Az llandsg puszta idea, ami az id hatsra
szletett. Az id viszont az emlkezet al van
rendelve. llandsgon te vgtelen ideig tart
hinytalan emlkezetet rtesz. rkkvalv akarod
tenni az elmt, ami nem lehetsges.
K: Akkor mi rkkval?
M: Az, ami nem vltozik az idvel. Nem teheted
rkkvalv a mland dolgot csak a vltozatlan
rkkval.
K: ltalnos rtelemben ismert szmomra, amirl
beszlsz. Nem kvetelek tbb tudst. Mindssze
bkre vgyom.
M: Tid lehet, ha kred a teljes bke, amire vgysz.
K: Krem.
K: Hogyan?
M: Klntsd el nmagad mindattl, ami elmdet
nyugtalann teszi. Adj fel mindent, ami bkjt
hborgatja. Ha bkt akarsz, rdemeld ki azt.
K: Biztosan mindenki megrdemli a bkt.
M: Csak azok rdemlik meg, akik nem hborgatjk
azt.
K: Milyen mdon hborgatom n a bkt?
M: Azzal, hogy vgyaid s flelmeid szolgjv
vlsz.
K: Mg akkor is, ha azok indokoltak?
M: A tudatlansg vagy gondatlansg miatt szletett
emocionlis reakcik soha nem indokoltak. Keresd a
tiszta elmt s a tiszta szvet. Mindssze az
szksges, hogy lgy teljesen ber, kutasd
nmagad valdi termszett. Ez az egyetlen t a
bkhez.
9. Az emlkezet vlaszai
Krdez: Egyesek azt mondjk, hogy az univerzum
teremtetett. Msok azt mondjk, hogy mindig
ltezett, s rkk vltozsoknak alvetett.
Nmelyek azt mondjk, hogy rk trvnyeknek
alrendelt. Msok tagadnak minden kauzalitst.
Egyesek azt mondjk, a vilg valsgos. Msok
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Maharaj: Which world are you enquiring about?
Q: The world of my perceptions, of course.
M: The world you can perceive is a very small world
indeed. And it is entirely private. Take it to be a
dream and be done with it.
Q: How can I take it to be a dream? A dream does
not last.
M: How long will your own world last?
Q: After all, my little world is but a part of the total.
M: Is not the idea of a total world a part of your
personal world? The universe does not come to tell
you that you are a part of it. It is you who have
invented a totality to contain you as a part. In fact all
you know is your own private world, however well
you have furnished it with your imaginations and
expectations.
Q: Surely, perception is not imagination.
M: What else? Perception is recognition, is it not?
Something entirely unfamiliar can be sensed, but
cannot be perceived. Perception involves memory.
Q: Granted, but memory does not make it illusion.
M: Perception, imagination, expectation,
anticipation, illusion -- all are based on memory.
There are hardly any border lines between them.
They just merge into each other. All are responses
of memory.
Q: Still, memory is there to prove the reality of my
world.
M: How much do you remember? Try to write down
from memory what you were thinking, saying and
th
doing on the 30 of the last month.
Q: Yes, there is a blank.
M: It is not so bad. You do remember a lot --
unconscious memory makes the world in which you
live so familiar.
Q: Admitted that the world in which I live is
subjective and partial. What about you? In what kind szubjektv s rszleges. s te? Mifle vilg az,
of world do you live?
hogy nem br ltezssel semmilyen mdon.
Maharaj: Melyik vilgrl krdezel?
K: Az ltalam rzkelt vilgrl, termszetesen.
M: A vilg, amit rzkelsz, valjban nagyon kis
vilg. s teljesen magntermszet. Vedd gy, hogy
lom, s ess t rajta.
K: Hogyan tekinthetnm lomnak? Egy lom nem
marad fenn.
M: Meddig fog a te sajt vilgod fennmaradni?
K: Vgl is, az n kis vilgom csak rsze az
egsznek.
M: Nem az egsz vilg ideja a te szemlyes
vilgod rsze? Az univerzum nem jn oda hozzd
elmondani, hogy te az rsze vagy. Te vagy az, aki
kitallt egy teljessget, amelynek tged, mint rszt,
tartalmaznia kell. Mindaz amit ismersz, az valjban
a te privt vilgod, brmilyen jl berendezted is
elkpzelseiddel s elvrsaiddal.
K: De ht az szlels az nem kpzelds.
M: Mi ms lenne? Az szlels az felismers, ugye?
Ha valami teljesen ismeretlen, az szlelhet, de nem
ismerhet fel. Az szlels magban foglalja az
emlkezetet.
K: Rendben van, de az emlkezet nem teszi azt
illziv.
M: szlels, kpzelet, elvrs, megrzs, illzi
mind emlkezeten alapulnak. Alig van kzttk
hatrvonal. Csaknem sszeolvadnak egymssal.
Mindezek az emlkezet vlaszai.
K: De mgiscsak az emlkezet a prbja a vilgom
realitsnak.
M: Mennyire emlkszel? Prbld meg emlkezetbl
lerni, hogy mit gondoltl, mondtl s csinltl mlt
hnap 30-n.
K: Ht igen, ez kitrldtt.
M: Nem olyan rossz a helyzet. Sok mindenre
emlkszel a tudattalan emlkezet teszi a vilgot,
amelyben lsz, olyan jl ismertt.
K: Elfogadom, hogy a vilg, amelyben lek
amiben te lsz?
26
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
M: My world is just like yours. I see, I hear, I feel, I
think, I speak and act in a world I perceive, just like
you. But with you it is all, with me it is nothing.
Knowing the world to be a part of myself, I pay it no
more attention than you pay to the food you have
eaten. While being prepared and eaten, the food is
separate from you and your mind is on it; once
swallowed, you become totally unconscious of it. I
have eaten up the world and I need not think of it
any more.
Q: Dont you become completely irresponsible?
M: How could I? How can I hurt something which is
one with me. On the contrary, without thinking of the
world, whatever I do will be of benefit to it. Just as
the body sets itself right unconsciously, so am I
ceaselessly active in setting the world right.
Q: Nevertheless, you are aware of the immense
suffering of the world?
M: Of course I am, much more than you are.
Q: Then what do you do?
M: I look at it through the eyes of God and find that
all is well.
Q: How can you say that all is well? Look at the
wars, the exploitation, the cruel strife between the
citizen and the state.
M: All these sufferings are man-made and it is within
man's power to put an end to them. God helps by
facing man with the results of his actions and
demanding that the balance should be restored.
Karma is the law that works for righteousness; it is
the healing hand of God.
10. Witnessing
Questioner: I am full of desires and want them
fulfilled. How am I to get what I want?
Maharaj: Do you deserve what you desire? In some Maharaj: Kirdemled, amire vgysz? gy vagy gy,
way or other you have to work for the fulfilment of de meg kell dolgoznod vgyaid beteljeslsrt.
your desires. Put in energy and wait for the results. Fektess be energit, s vrd az eredmnyeket.
Q: Where am I to get the energy?
M: Desire itself is energy.
Q: Then why does not every desire get fulfilled?
27
M: Az n vilgom ppen olyan, mint a tied. Ltok,
hallok, rzek, gondolok, beszlek s cselekszem az
ltalam szlelt vilgban, ppen gy, mint te. De ami
veled van, az minden, ami velem van, az semmi. A
vilgot nmagam egy rszeknt tudva, nem fordtok
r tbb figyelmet, mint amennyit te fordtasz arra az
telre, amit megettl. Mikzben kszted s eszed,
az tel tled klnll dolog, s az elmd r irnyul;
amint lenyelted, teljesen tudattalann vlsz r
nzve. n megettem a vilgot, s nem kell
gondolnom r soha tbb.
K: Nem lettl teljesen feleltlen?
M: Hogy vltam volna azz? Hogyan bnthatnk
valamit, ami egy velem? Ellenkezleg, a vilgra val
gondols nlkl akrmi, amit teszek, a hasznra
lesz. Ahogy a test is rendbe hozza magt
tudattalanul, gy vagyok n szntelenl aktv a vilg
rendbe hozsa tern.
K: Mindamellett, tudatban vagy-e a vilg
mrhetetlen szenvedsnek?
M: Termszetesen igen, sokkal inkbb, mint te.
K: Aztn mit teszel?
M: n Isten szemvel tekintek r, s gy tallom,
hogy minden jl van.
K: Hogy mondhatod, hogy minden jl van? Tekintsd
a hborkra, a kizskmnyolsra, a lakossg s az
llam kztti kegyetlen kzdelemre.
M: Mindezen szenvedseket az ember hozta ltre,
s hatalmban ll az embernek, hogy vget vessen
nekik. Isten az embert gy segti, hogy szembesti
cselekedetei eredmnyeivel, s az egyensly
helyrelltsnak az ignyvel. A Karma az a
trvny, amely az igazsgossg rdekben
mkdik; ez Isten gygyt keze.
10. Tansg
Krdez: Teli vagyok vgyakkal, amelyek
szeretnm, ha beteljesednnek. Hogyan kaphatom
meg, amit akarok?
K: Honnan vegyem az energit?
M: Maga a vgy az energia.
K: Akkor mirt nem teljesedik be minden vgy?
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
M: Maybe it was not strong enough and lasting.
Q: Yes, that is my problem. I want things, but I am
lazy when it comes to action.
M: When your desire is not clear nor strong, it
cannot take shape. Besides, if your desires are
personal, for your own enjoyment, the energy you
give them is necessarily limited; it cannot be more
than what you have.
Q: Yet, often ordinary persons do attain what they
desire.
M: After desiring it very much and for a long time.
Even then, their achievements are limited.
Q: And what about unselfish desires?
M: When you desire the common good, the whole M: Amikor a kzjt vgyod, az egsz vilg egytt
world desires with you. Make humanity's desire your vgyik veled. Tedd az emberisg vgyt a
own and work for it. There you cannot fail, magadv, s dolgozz rte. Nem bukhatsz el.
Q: Humanity is Gods work, not mine. I am
concerned with myself. Have I not the right to see
my legitimate desires fulfilled? They will hurt no one.
My desires are legitimate. They are right desires,
why dont they come true?
M: Desires are right or wrong according to
circumstances; it depends on how you look at them.
It is only for the individual that a distinction between
right and wrong is valid.
Q: What are the guide-lines for such distinction?
How am I to know which of my desires are right and
which are wrong?
M: In your case desires that lead to sorrow are
wrong and those which lead to happiness are right.
But you must not forget others. Their sorrow and
happiness also count.
Q: Results are in the future. How can I know what
they will be?
M: Use your mind. Remember. Observe. You are
not different from others. Most of their experiences
are valid for you too. Think clearly and deeply, go
into the entire structure of your desires and their
ramifications. They are a most important part of your
mental and emotional make-up and powerfully affect
your actions. Remember, you cannot abandon what
you do not know. To go beyond yourself, you must
know yourself.
Q: What does it mean to know myself? By knowing
myself what exactly do I come to know?
28
M: Lehet, hogy nem volt elg ers s tarts.
K: Igen, na ez a problmm. Akarok dolgokat, de
amikor eljn a cselekvs ideje, ellustulok.
M: Amikor a vgyad nem tiszta s ers, nem lthet
alakot. Ezenfell, ha vgyaid szemlyesek, a sajt
lvezetedet szolgljk, a rjuk irnytott energid
szksgkppen korltozott; nem lehet belle tbb,
mint amennyivel rendelkezel.
K: tlagemberek mgis gyakran elrik, amire
vgynak.
M: Azutn, hogy vgyakozsuk nagyon ers s
hossz ideig tartott. De teljestmnyk mg ekkor is
korltozott.
K: s mi van az nzetlen vgyakkal?
K: Az emberisg Isten dolga, nem az enym.
Nekem sajt magammal kell trdnm. Nincs jogom,
hogy legitim vgyaim teljeslst keressem? Azok
senkit nem bntanak. Az n vgyaim helynvalk.
Ezek helyesek vgyak, mirt nem vlnak valra?
M: A vgyak a krlmnyektl fggen jk vagy
rosszak; attl fgg, hogy tekintesz rjuk. A j s a
rossz kztti klnbsg csak az egyn szmra
igazolgat.
K: Mik az ilyen klnbsgek irnyelvei? Honnan
tudom, hogy mely vgyaim jk, s melyek rosszak?
M: A te esetedben a szomorsghoz vezet vgyak
rosszak, s a boldogsghoz vezetk jk. De nem
szabad megfeledkezned msokrl. Az
szomorsguk s boldogsguk szintn szmt.
K: Az eredmnyek a jvben jelentkeznek. Honnan
tudom, hogy mik lesznek azok?
M: Hasznld az eszedet. Emlkezz. Figyelj. Nem
klnbzl msoktl. Az legtbb tapasztalatuk rd
is rvnyes. Gondolkozz tisztn s mlyen, menj
bele a vgyaid s azok kvetkezmnyei teljes
struktrjba. Ezek a te mentlis s emocionlis
szerkezeted legfontosabb rszei, s erteljesen
hatnak a tetteidre. Jegyezd meg, nem tudod feladni
azt, amit nem ismersz. nmagad meghaladshoz
elszr ismerned kell nmagad.
K: Mit jelent ismerni nmagam? nmagam
megismersvel tulajdonkppen mit ismerek meg?
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
M: All that you are not.
Q: And not what I am?
M: What you are, you already are. By knowing what
you are not, you are free of it and remain in your
own natural state. It all happens quite spontaneously
and effortlessly.
Q: And what do I discover?
M: You discover that there is nothing to discover.
You are what you are and that is all.
Q: I do not understand.
M: It is your fixed idea that you must be something
or other, that blinds you.
Q: How can I get rid of this idea?
M: If you trust me, believe when I tell you that you
are the pure awareness that illuminates
consciousness and its infinite content. Realise this
and live accordingly. If you do not believe me, then
go within, enquiring What am I? or, focus your mind
on I am, which is pure and simple being.
Q: On what my faith in you depends?
M: On your insight into other peoples hearts. If you
cannot look into my heart, look into your own.
Q: I can do neither.
M: Purify yourself by a well-ordered and useful life.
Watch over your thoughts, feelings, words and
actions. This will clear your vision.
Q: Must I not renounce every thing first, and live a
homeless life?
M: You cannot renounce. You may leave your home
and give trouble to your family, but attachments are
in the mind and will not leave you until you know
your mind in and out. First thing first -- know
yourself, all else will come with it.
Q: But you already told me that I am the Supreme
Reality. Is it not self-knowledge?
M: Of course you are the Supreme Reality. But what M: Termszetesen, te vagy a Legfelsbb Valsg.
of it? Every grain of sand is God; to know it is De ht aztn? Minden porszem Isten; fontos ezt
important, but that is only the beginning. tudni, de ez csak a kezdet.
29
M: Mindazt, ami nem vagy.
K: s nem azt, ami vagyok?
M: Ami vagy, az mr vagy. Megismerve, hogy mi
nem vagy, szabadd vlsz tle, s megmaradsz
sajt termszetes llapotodban. Mindez teljesen
spontn s erfeszts-mentesen trtnik.
K: s mit fedezek fel?
M: Felfedezed, hogy nincs mit felfedezni. Az vagy
ami vagy, s ez minden.
K: Nem rtem.
M: Az a rgeszmd, hogy ennek vagy annak kell
lenned, ami megvakt tged.
K: Hogyan szabadulhatok meg ettl az eszmtl?
M: Ha bzol bennem, ha elhiszed, ha azt mondom
neked, hogy te a tiszta tudatossg vagy, amely
fnnyel rasztja el a tudatossgot s annak vgtelen
tartalmt. bredj ennek tudatra, s lj ennek
megfelelen. Ha nem hiszel nekem, akkor haladj
befel a mi vagyok n? kutatssal, vagy tartsd
elmd fkuszt az n vagyok-on, amely tiszta s
egyszer ltezs.
K: Mitl fgg, hogy hiszek-e benned?
M: Hogy beleltsz-e ms emberek szvbe. Ha nem
tudsz az n szvembe ltni, nzz a sajtodba.
K: Egyiket sem tudom megcsinlni.
M: Tiszttsd meg magad egy jl vezetett, s hasznos
lettel. gyelj gondolataidra, rzseidre, szavaidra
s tetteidre. Ez meg fogja tiszttani ltsodat.
K: Nem kell mindenrl lemondanom elszr, s
remeteknt lnem?
M: Nem tudsz lemondani. Otthonodat elhagyhatod,
csaldodnak gondot okozhatsz, de a ktelkek az
elmdben vannak, s nem fognak elengedni, amg
az elmdet kvl-bell meg nem ismered. Elszr az
els dolog ismerd meg magad, minden ms jnni
fog vele.
K: De te mr kzlted velem, hogy n a Legfelsbb
Valsg vagyok. Ez nem nismeret?
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: Well, you told me that I am the Supreme Reality.
I believe you. What next is there for me to do?
M: I told you already. Discover all you are not. Body,
feelings, thoughts, ideas, time, space, being and
not-being, this or that -- nothing concrete or abstract
you can point out to is you. A mere verbal statement
will not do -- you may repeat a formula endlessly
without any result whatsoever. You must watch
yourself continuously -- particularly your mind --
moment by moment, missing nothing. This
witnessing is essential for the separation of the self
from the not-self.
Q: The witnessing -- is it not my real nature?
M: For witnessing, there must be something else to
witness. We are still in duality.
Q: What about witnessing the witness? Awareness
of awareness?
M: Putting words together will not take you far. Go
within and discover what you are not. Nothing else
matters.
11. Awareness and Consciousness
Questioner: What do you do when asleep?
Maharaj: I am aware of being asleep.
Q: Is not sleep a state of unconsciousness?
M: Yes, I am aware of being unconscious.
Q: And when awake, or dreaming?
M: I am aware of being awake or dreaming.
Q: I do not catch you. What exactly do you mean?
Let me make my terms clear: by being asleep I
mean unconscious, by being awake I mean
conscious, by dreaming I mean conscious of ones
mind, but not of the surroundings.
M: Well, it is about the same with me, Yet, there
seems to be a difference. In each state you forget
the other two, while to me, there is but one state of
being, including and transcending the three mental
states of waking, dreaming and sleeping.
Q: Do you see in the world a direction and a
purpose?
30
K: Nos, az mondtad, n vagyok a Legfelsbb
Valsg. Hiszek neked. Mit a kvetkez teendm?
M: Mr mondtam. Fedezd fel, hogy mi nem vagy.
Test, rzsek, gondolatok, idek, id, tr, lt s
nemlt, ez s az semmilyen konkrt vagy
absztrakt dolog, amire r tudsz mutatni, nem te
vagy. A pusztn verblis kijelents nem mkdik
vg nlkl ismtelhetsz egy formult, anlkl, hogy
brmilyen eredmnnyel jrna. Folyamatosan
figyelned kell magad klnsen az elmdet
pillanatrl pillanatra, semmit el nem mulasztva. Ez a
tansg elengedhetetlen az nnek a nem-ntl val
elvlasztshoz.
K: A tansg nem ez az n valdi termszetem?
M: A tansghoz kell valami ms, amit tanstasz.
Mg mindig a dualitsban vagyunk.
K: Mi a vlemnyed a tan tansgrl? A
tudatossg tudatossga?
M: A szavak egymshoz fzse nem visz messzire.
Fordulj befel, s fedezd fel, hogy ki nem vagy.
Semmi ms nem szmt.
11. Tudat s tudatossg
Krdez: Mit csinlsz, mikor alszol?
Maharaj: Tudatban vagyok alv llapotomnak.
K: Az alvs nem a tudattalansg llapota?
M: Igen, tudatban vagyok a tudattalan
llapotomnak.
K: s amikor bren vagy, vagy lmodsz?
M: Tudatban vagyok brenlti vagy lmod
llapotomnak.
K: Nem rtem. Mit jelent ez pontosan? Hadd
vilgtsam meg a fogalmaimat: alv llapoton n
tudattalansgot rtek, brenlti llapoton
tudatossgot, lmods alatt azt rtem, hogy az
elmnek tudatban lenni, de a krnyezetnek nem.
M: Nos, ezek krlbell ugyanazok, mint az enyim,
de van egy szembetn klnbsg. Te mindegyik
llapotban elfelejted a msik kettt, mg az n
szmomra csak egy ltezsi llapot van, magban
foglalva s meghaladva az brenlt, lmods s
alvs hrom mentlis llapott.
K: Ltsz-e a vilgban irnytst s szndkot?
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
M: The world is but a reflection of my imagination.
Whatever I want to see, I can see. But why should I
invent patterns of creation, evolution and
destruction? I do not need them and have no desire
to lock up the world in a mental picture.
Q: Coming back to sleep. Do you dream?
M: Of course.
Q: What are your dreams?
M: Echoes of the waking state.
Q: And your deep sleep?
M: The brain consciousness is suspended.
Q: Are you then unconscious?
M: Unconscious of my surroundings -- yes.
Q: Not quite unconscious?
M: I remain aware that I am unconscious.
Q: You use the words 'aware' and 'conscious'. Are
they not the same?
M: Awareness is primordial; it is the original state,
beginningless, endless, uncaused, unsupported,
without parts, without change. Consciousness is on
contact, a reflection against a surface, a state of
duality. There can be no consciousness without
awareness, but there can be awareness without
consciousness, as in deep sleep. Awareness is
absolute, consciousness is relative to its content;
consciousness is always of something.
Consciousness is partial and changeful, awareness
is total, changeless, calm and silent. And it is the
common matrix of every experience.
Q: How does one go beyond consciousness into
awareness?
M: Since it is awareness that makes consciousness
possible, there is awareness in every state of
consciousness. Therefore the very consciousness of
being conscious is already a movement in
awareness. Interest in your stream of consciousness
takes you to awareness. It is not a new state. It is at
once recognised as the original, basic existence,
which is life itself, and also love and joy.
Q: Since reality is all the time with us, what does
self-realisation consist of?
M: Realisation is but the opposite of ignorance. To
take the world as real and ones self as unreal is
31
M: A vilg csak a kpzeletem tkrzdse. Brmit
akarok ltni, lthatom. De mirt talljak ki teremtsi
mintkat, evolcit s pusztulst? Nincs szksgem
rjuk, s nem hajtom bezrni a vilgot egy mentlis
kpbe.
K: Visszatrve az alvsra. Szoktl lmodni?
M: Termszetesen.
K: Miket lmodsz?
M: Az brenlti llapot visszatkrzdseit.
K: s a mly alvsod?
M: Az agyi tudatossg sznetel.
K: Akkor tudattalan vagy?
M: Nem vagyok tudatban a krnyezetemre igen.
K: Nem vagy teljesen tudattalan?
M: Megmarad a tudat, hogy tudattalan vagyok.
K: A tudat (aware) s a tudatos (conscious)
szavakat hasznlod. Ezek nem ugyanazok?
M: A tudat az s; ez az eredeti llapot, kezdet
nlkli, vg nlkli, nem okozati, nem tmogatott,
rszek nlkli, vltozs nlkli. A tudatossg a
kettssg llapothoz kapcsold felszni
tkrzds. Nem ltezhet tudatossg tudat nlkl,
tudat viszont ltezhet tudatossg nlkl, pldul
mly alvsban. A tudat abszolt, a tudatossg a
sajt tartalmtl fgg; a tudatossg mindig valamire
tudatos. A tudatossg rszleges s vltozkony, a
tudat totlis, megvltozhatatlan, nyugodt s
csendes. s ez a kzs mtrixa minden
tapasztalsnak.
K: Hogyan lehet a tudatossgbl a tudatba
tovbblpni?
M: Mivel a tudat az, ami a tudatossgot lehetv
teszi, a tudatossg minden llapotban van tudat.
Kvetkezskppen a tudatos ltezs tkletes
tudata is mr egy tudatbeli mozgs. A tudatfolyamod
irnti rdeklds vezet el tged a tudathoz. Ez nem
egy j llapot. Azonnal felismered, mint eredeti,
alapvet ltezst, amely az let maga, s szeretet
s rm is.
K: Mivel a valsg mindig velnk van, mibl ll az
n-megvalsts?
M: A megvalsts csupn a tudatlansg ellentte. A
vilgot valsnak, s az ember njt valtlannak
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
ignorance. The cause of sorrow. To know the self as
the only reality and all else as temporal and transient
is freedom, peace and joy. It is all very simple.
Instead of seeing things as imagined, learn to see
them as they are. It is like cleansing a mirror. The
same mirror that shows you the world as it is, will
also show you your own face. The thought 'I am' is
the polishing cloth. Use it.
12. The Person is not Reality
Questioner: Kindly tell us how you realised.
Maharaj: I met my Guru when I was 34 and realised Maharaj: 34 ves koromban tallkoztam Gurummal,
by 37. s 37 ves koromra megvalsultam.
Q: What happened? What was the change?
M: Pleasure and pain lost their sway over me. I was
free from desire and fear. I found myself full,
needing nothing. I saw that in the ocean of pure
awareness, on the surface of the universal
consciousness, the numberless waves of the
phenomenal worlds arise and subside
beginninglessly and endlessly. As consciousness,
they are all me. As events they are all mine. There is
a mysterious power that looks after them. That
power is awareness, Self, Life, God, whatever name
you give it. It is the foundation, the ultimate support
of all that is, just like gold is the basis for all gold
jewellery. And it is so intimately ours. Abstract the
name and shape from the jewellery and the gold
becomes obvious. Be free of name and form and of
the desires and fears they create, then what
remains?
Q: Nothingness.
M: Yes, the void remains. But the void is full to the
brim. It is the eternal potential as consciousness is
the eternal actual.
Q: By potential you mean the future?
M: Past, present and future -- they are all there. And M: Mlt, jelen s jv ezek mind benne vannak.
infinitely more. s vgtelenszer tbb.
Q: But since the void is void, it is of little use to us.
M: How can you say so? Without breach in
continuity how can there be rebirth? Can there be
renewal without death? Even the darkness of sleep
is refreshing and rejuvenating. Without death we
would have been bogged up for ever in eternal
32
tekinteni, az tudatlansg. A fjdalom okozja. Az nt
az egyetlen valsgnak tudni, s minden mst
idlegesnek s mlandnak, az szabadsg, bke s
rm. Mindez nagyon egyszer. Ahelyett, hogy
olyannak ltnd a dolgokat, amilyennek kpzeled
ket, tanuld meg gy ltni ket, ahogyan azok
vannak. Ez a tkr tiszttshoz hasonl. Ugyanaz a
tkr, amely a vilgot gy mutatja szmodra,
ahogyan az van, meg fogja mutatni neked sajt
arcodat is. Az n vagyok gondolat a trlruha.
Hasznld.
12. A szemly nem valsgos
Krdez: Lgy szves, mesld el neknk, hogyan
valstottad meg nmagad?
K: Mi trtnt? Mi vltozott?
M: lvezet s fjdalom elvesztettk a hatalmukat
felettem. Szabad voltam vgytl s flelemtl.
Teljesnek talltam nmagamat, szksgletek
nlklinek. Lttam, hogy a tiszta bersg
cenjban, az egyetemes tudatossg felsznn a
jelensgvilg megszmllhatatlan hullma
keletkezik s tnik el, kezdet s vg nlkl. Mint
tudatossg, k mind n vagyok. Mint esemnyek, k
mind az enymek. Ltezik egy titokzatos er, amely
gondjukat viseli. Ez az er az bersg, n, let,
Isten, brhogy is nevezd. Ez az alapja, vgs
tmasza mindennek, ami van, pontosan gy, ahogy
az arany alapja minden arany kszernek. s ez
ennyire kzvetlen mdon a mink. Vonatkoztasd el
a nevet s a formt az kszertl, s az arany
nyilvnvalv vlik. Szabadulj meg nvtl s
formtl, s az ltaluk keltett vgytl s flelemtl,
mi marad akkor?
K: Semmi.
M: Igen, az ressg marad. De az ressg sznltig
tele van. Ez az rk lehetsg, mint tudatossg az
rk realits.
K: Lehetsg alatt a jvt rted?
K: De, minthogy az ressg res, kevs haszna van
szmunkra.
M: Hogy mondhatsz ilyet? A folytonossgbeli
szakads nlkl hogyan lehetne jjszlets?
Lehet-e megjuls hall nlkl? Mg az alvs
sttsge is frisst s megjt. Hall nlkl
belesllyednnk az rk vnsgbe.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
senility.
Q: Is there no such thing as immortality?
M: When life and death are seen as essential to
each other, as two aspects of one being, that is
immortality. To see the end in the beginning and
beginning in the end is the intimation of eternity.
Definitely, immortality is not continuity. Only the
process of change continues. Nothing lasts.
Q: Awareness lasts?
M: Awareness is not of time. Time exists in
consciousness only. Beyond consciousness where
are time and space?
Q: Within the field of your consciousness there is
your body also.
M: Of course. But the idea 'my body', as different
from other bodies, is not there. To me it is 'a body',
not 'my body', 'a mind', not 'my mind'. The mind
looks after the body all right, I need not interfere.
What needs be done is being done, in the normal
and natural way.
You may not be quite conscious of your
physiological functions, but when it comes to
thoughts and feelings, desires and fears you
become acutely self-conscious. To me these too are
largely unconscious. I find myself talking to people,
or doing things quite correctly and appropriately,
without being very much conscious of them. It looks
as if I live my physical, waking life automatically,
reacting spontaneously and accurately.
Q: Does this spontaneous response come as a
result of realisation, or by training?
M: Both. Devotion to you goal makes you live a
clean and orderly life, given to search for truth and to
helping people, and realisation makes noble virtue
easy and spontaneous, by removing for good the
obstacles in the shape of desires and fears and
wrong ideas.
Q: Dont you have desires and fears any more?
M: My destiny was to be born a simple man, a
commoner, a humble tradesman, with little of formal
education. My life was the common kind, with
common desires and fears. When, through my faith
in my teacher and obedience to his words, I realised
my true being, I left behind my human nature to look
after itself, until its destiny is exhausted.
Occasionally an old reaction, emotional or mental,
33
K: Nincs olyan, hogy halhatatlansg?
M: Amikor az letet s a hallt egyformn
lnyegesnek tekintik, mint az emberi ltezs kt
aspektust, az a halhatatlansg. Ltni a vget a
kezdetkor s a kezdetet a vgkor, az rkkvalsg
zenete. Ktsgtelen, hogy az rklt nem
llandsg. Csak a vltozs lland. Semmi nem
tart rkk.
K: A tudat rk?
M: A tudat nem idbeli. Id csak a tudatossgban
ltezik. A tudatossgon tl hol van id s tr?
K: A tudatossgod tern bell van a tested is.
M: Termszetesen. De az n testem idea, mint ami
ms testektl klnbzik, nincs benne. Szmomra
ez egy test nem az n testem, egy elme, nem az
n elmm. Az elme megfelelen gondoskodik a
testrl, nekem nem kell kzbeavatkoznom. Ami meg
kell, hogy trtnjen, az megtrtnik, normlis s
termszetes mdon.
Nem lehetsz teljesen tudatban pszicholgiai
funkciidnak, csak akkor leszel hirtelen ntudatos,
amikor azok belpnek a gondolataidba, rzseidbe,
vgyaidba s flelmeidbe. Nlam ezek is jrszt
tudattalanok. gy tallom, hogy teljesen hibtlanul
s helynvalan beszlek emberekkel, vagy teszek
dolgokat, anlkl, hogy tlsgosan tudatban
lennnk. gy ltszik, mintha fizikai, felbredett
letemet automatikusan lnm, nkntelen s
hibtlan reaglssal.
K: Ez az nkntelen reakci nmegvalsuls
eredmnye, vagy gyakorls?
M: Mindkett. nmagad clnak szentelse arra
ksztet, hogy tiszta s rendszeres letet lj, az
igazsg keresse, az emberek segtse, s az
nmegvalsts nemes ernyeket s spontaneitst
teremt, a vgyakban, flelmekben s rossz idekban
megtestesl akadlyok vgleges eltvoltsval.
K: Nincsenek tbb vgyaid s flelmeid?
M: Az n sorsom az volt, hogy egyszer emberknt
szletve tlagember, egyszer keresked legyek,
kevs formlis kpzettsggel. Az letem az tlagos
mdon telt, a szoksos vgyakkal s flelmekkel.
Amikor tantmba vetett hitem rvn, s szavainak
engedelmeskedve megvalstottam valdi ltemet,
magam mgtt hagytam emberi termszetemet,
amely nmagrl gondoskodik, mg vgzete kimerl.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
happens in the mind, but it is at once noticed and
discarded. After all, as long as one is burdened with
a person, one is exposed to its idiosyncrasies and
habits.
Q: Are you not afraid of death?
M: I am dead already.
Q: In what sense?
M: I am double dead. Not only am I dead to my
body, but to my mind too.
Q: Well, you do not look dead at all.
M: Thats what you say. You seem to know my state M: Mondod te. gy ltszik, hogy te jobban tudod,
better than I do. milyen llapotban vagyok, mint n.
Q: Sorry. But I just do not understand. You say you
are bodyless and mindless, while I see you very
much alive and articulate.
M: A tremendously complex work is going on all the
time in your brain and body, are you conscious of it?
Not at all. Yet for an outsider all seems to be going
on intelligently and purposefully. Why not admit that
ones entire personal life may sink largely below the
threshold of consciousness and yet proceed sanely
and smoothly?
Q: Is it normal?
M: What is normal? Is your life -- obsessed by
desires and fears, full of strife and struggle,
meaningless and joyless -- normal? To be acutely
conscious of your body id it normal? To be torn by
feelings, tortured by thoughts: is it normal? A healthy
body, a healthy mind live largely unperceived by
their owner; only occasionally, through pain or
suffering they call for attention and insight. Why not
extend the same to the entire personal life? One can
function rightly, responding well and fully to
whatever happens, without having to bring it into the
focus of awareness. When self-control becomes
second nature, awareness shifts its focus to deeper
levels of existence and action.
Q: Dont you become a robot?
M: What harm is there in making automatic, what is
habitual and repetitive? It is automatic anyhow. But
when it is also chaotic, it causes pain and suffering
and calls for attention. The entire purpose of a clean
and well-ordered life is to liberate man from the
thraldom of chaos and the burden of sorrow.
34
Egyszer-egyszer egy rgi, emocionlis vagy
mentlis reakci megjelenik az elmmben, de
egybl szreveszem, s trlm. Elvgre ameddig az
ember szemlyisggel terhelt, addig ki van tve
annak a gondolkodsmdjnak s szoksainak.
K: Nem flsz a halltl?
M: n mr halott vagyok.
M: Milyen rtelemben?
M: Ktszeresen is halott vagyok. Nemcsak
testemnek haltam meg, hanem elmmnek is.
K: Nos, egyltaln nem ltszol halottnak.
K: Bocsnat. n csak nem rtem. Azt mondod, hogy
test nlkli s elme nlkli vagy, mikzben n gy
ltlak, mint aki nagyon is l, s magt kifejezni
kpes.
M: Rettenetesen bonyolult mkds megy vgbe az
agyadban s a testedben, tudatban vagy?
Egyltaln nem. Mgis, egy kvlllnak minden
intelligensnek s tgondoltnak tnik. Mirt nem
fogadod el, hogy az ember egsz szemlyes lete
nagymrtkben lesllyedhet a tudatkszb al, s
mgis sszeren s zkkenmentesen mkdik?
K: Normlis ez?
M: Mi a normlis? A te leted vgyakkal s
flelmekkel gytrten, tele viszllyal s
kzdelemmel, rtelem s rm nlkl normlis?
Hirtelen tudatoss vlni a testedre, az normlis?
rzelmek, gondolatok ltal knoztatni az normlis?
Az egszsges test, az egszsges elme
nagyobbrszt szrevtlen a tulajdonosa szmra;
csak esetenknt, fjdalom vagy szenveds rvn
kvetelnek figyelmet s bepillantst. Mirt nem
terjeszted ki ugyanezt egsz szemlyes letedre?
Az ember helyesen funkcionlhatna, megfelelen s
teljesen reaglva brmire, ami trtnik, anlkl,
hogy az bersg fkuszba kellene hozni. Amikor az
nuralom msodik termszett vlik, az bersg
ttolja fkuszt a ltezs s cselekvs mlyebb
szintjeire.
K: Nem vltl robott?
M: Mirt baj, hogy ami szoksos s ismtld, az
automatikusan mkdik? Ez mindenkppen
automatikus. De amikor kaotikus is, fjdalmat s
szenvedst okoz, s figyelemrt kilt. A tiszta s jl
rendszerezett letnek minden szndka, hogy
megszabadtsa az embert a kosz leigzottsgbl,
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: You seem to be in favour of a computerised life.
M: What is wrong with a life which is free from
problems? Personality is merely a reflection of the
real. Why should not the reflection be true to the
original as a matter of course, automatically? Need
the person have any designs of its own? The life of
which it is an expression will guide it. Once you
realise that the person is merely a shadow of the
reality, but not reality itself, you cease to fret and
worry. You agree to be guided from within and life
becomes a journey into the unknown.
13. The Supreme, the Mind and the Body 13. A Legfelsbb, az Elme s a Test
Questioner: From what you told us it appears that
you are not quite conscious of your surroundings. To
us you seem extremely alert and active. We cannot
possibly believe that you are in a kind of hypnotic
state, which leaves no memory behind. On the
contrary, your memory seems excellent. How are we
to understand your statement that the world and all it
includes does not exist, as far as you are concerned.
Maharaj: It is all a matter of focus. Your mind is
focussed in the world, mine is focussed in reality. It
is like the moon in daylight -- when the sun shines,
the moon is hardly visible. Or, watch how you take
your food. As long as it is in your mouth, you are
conscious of it; once swallowed, it does not concern
you any longer. It would be troublesome to have it
constantly in mind until it is eliminated. The mind
should be normally in abeyance -- incessant activity
is a morbid state. The universe works by itself -- that
I know. What else do I need to know?
Q: So a gnani knows what he is doing only when he
turns his mind to it; otherwise he just acts, without
being concerned.
M: The average man is not conscious of his body as
such. He is conscious of his sensations, feelings and
thoughts. Even these, once detachment sets in,
move away from the centre of consciousness and
happen spontaneously and effortlessly.
Q: What then is in the centre of consciousness?
M: That which cannot be given name and form, for it M: Az, aminek nem adhat nv s forma, mert
is without quality and beyond consciousness. You tulajdonsgok nlkli, s tudatossgon tli.
may say it is a point in consciousness, which is Mondhatni, ez a tudatossgnak egy olyan pontja,
35
s a szomorsg terhtl.
K: gy tnik, hogy te a komputerizlt letet
favorizlod.
M: Mi rossz van egy olyan letben, amely mentes a
problmktl? A szemlyisg pusztn a valsg
tkrkpe. Mirt ne felelhetne meg a tkrkp az
eredetinek termszetesen, automatikusan?
Szksge van a szemlynek nmaga valamilyen
tervre? Az let, amelynek ez kifejezdse,
tmogatni fogja ezt. Amint felismered, hogy a
szemly pusztn a valsgnak egy rnykpe, de
nem maga a valsg, abbahagyod a
nyugtalankodst s aggodalmaskodst. Egyetrtesz
vele, hogy bellrl vezettess, s az let az
ismeretlenbe irnyul utazss vlik.
Krdez: Amiket mondasz abbl gy tnik, hogy
nem vagy egszen tudatban a krnyezetednek.
Neknk rendkvl elevennek s tevkenynek tnsz.
Nem tudjuk igazn elhinni, hogy te egyfle
hipnotikus llapotban vagy, ami utn nem marad
emlk. Ellenkezleg, gy ltszik, kitn memrid
van. Hogyan kell rtennk azt az lltsodat, hogy a
ami tged illet, a vilg, s minden, amit az magban
foglal, nem ltezik?
Maharaj: Ez nzpont krdse. A te elmd a vilgra
fkuszlt, az enym a valsgra. Ez olyan, mint a
hold a nappali vilgossgban amikor st a nap, a
hold alig lthat. Vagy figyeld meg, ahogyan az telt
magadhoz veszed. Amg a szdban van, addig
tudatban vagy; amint lenyelted, nem trdsz vele
tovbb. Nagyon fradsgos lenne, ha az elme vgig
ksrn, amg el nem tvozik. Az elmnek norml
esetben hatlyon kvl kell lennie a szntelen
tevkenysg kros llapot. Az univerzum magtl
mkdik ezt tudom. Mi egyebet kellene tudnom?
K: Teht a gnani akkor tudja csak, hogy mit csinl,
amikor az elmjt rirnytja; egybknt anlkl
cselekszik, hogy rinten a dolog.
M: Az tlagember nincs tudatban a testnek, mint
olyannak. Benyomsainak, rzseinek s
gondolatainak van tudatban. De a prtatlansg
bekvetkeztekor mg ezek is tvolabb kerlnek a
tudatossg kzppontjtl, s spontn s
erfeszts nlkl zajlanak.
K: Mi van ekkor a tudatossg kzpontjban?
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
beyond consciousness. Like a hole in the paper is
both in the paper and yet not of paper, so is the
supreme state in the very centre of consciousness,
and yet beyond consciousness. It is as if an opening
in the mind through which the mind is flooded with
light. The opening is not even the light. It is just an
opening.
Q: An opening is just void, absence.
M: Quite so. From the mind's point of view, it is but
an opening for the light of awareness to enter the
mental space. By itself the light can only be
compared to a solid, dense, rocklike, homogeneous
and changeless mass of pure awareness, free from
the mental patterns of name and shape.
Q: Is there any connection between the mental
space and the supreme abode?
M: The supreme gives existence to the mind. The
mind gives existence to the body.
Q: And what lies beyond?
M: Take an example. A venerable Yogi, a master in
the art of longevity, himself over 1000 years old,
comes to teach me his art. I fully respect and
sincerely admire his achievements, yet all I can tell
him is: of what use is longevity to me? I am beyond
time. However long a life may be, it is but a moment
and a dream. In the same way I am beyond all
attributes. They appear and disappear in my light,
but cannot describe me. The universe is all names
and forms, based on qualities and their differences,
while I am beyond. The world is there because I am,
but I am not the world.
Q: But you are living in the world.
M: That's what you say. I know there is a world,
which includes this body and this mind, but I do not
consider them to be more mine than other minds
and bodies. They are there, in time and space, but I
am timeless and spaceless.
Q: But since all exists by your light, are you not the
creator of the world?
M: I am neither the potentiality nor the actualisation,
nor the actuality of things. In my light they come and
go as the specks of dust dancing in the sunbeam.
The light illumines the specks, but does not depend
on them. Nor can it be said to create them. It cannot
be even said to know them.
36
amely tl van a tudatossgon. Mint ahogy a
paprban lv lyuk, amely benne is van paprban,
meg nincs is, gy van a legfelsbb llapot a kells
kzepn tudatossgnak, s mgis tl a
tudatossgon. Mintha egy nyls lenne az elmben,
amelyen keresztl fny rasztja el az elmt. A nyls
mg nem a fny. Az csak egy nyls.
K: Egy nyls csak ressg, hiny.
M: gy van. Az elme nzpontjbl ez csak egy
olyan nyls a tudatossg fnyn, amelyen belphet
a mentlis ressgbe. A fny nmagban csak
olyan, mint a tiszta tudatossg szilrd, sr,
kszer, homogn s megvltozhatatlan tmege,
amely mentes a nevek s formk mentlis mintitl.
K: Van valamilyen kapcsolat a mentlis ressg s
a legfelsbb kztt?
M: A legfelsbb ad ltezst az elmnek. Az elme ad
ltezst a testnek.
K: s mi van azon tl?
M: Vegynk egy pldt. Egy tiszteletremlt Yogi, a
hossz let mvszetnek mestere, aki maga 1000
v fltti kort megrt, eljn hozzm, hogy
megtantsa nekem a mvszett. n teljes
mrtkben tisztelem, s szintn csodlom, amit
elrt, mgis csak azt tudom mondani neki: mi
hasznom a hossz letbl? n meghaladtam az
idt. Brmilyen hossz is legyen egy let, az csak
egy pillanat, s csak egy lom. Ugyangy
meghaladtam minden tulajdonsgot. Megjelennek
s eltnnek fnyemben, de nem tudnak lerni
engem. Az univerzum nem ms, mint
tulajdonsgokon, s azok eltrsein alapul nevek
s formk, mg n mindezeket meghaladtam. A vilg
van, mert n vagyok, de n nem a vilg vagyok.
K: De a vilgban lsz.
M: Ezt te mondod. Tudom, hogy van vilg, amely
magban foglalja ezt az elmt s ezt a testet, de
nem tekintem ket jobban enymnek mint a tbbi
elmt s testet. Ezek idben s trben vannak, de
n idtlen s vgtelen vagyok.
K: De ha minden a te fnyed ltal ltezik, nem te
vagy a vilg teremtje?
M: Sem a potencialits, sem a megvalsts, sem a
valsgos dolgok nem vagyok. A fnyemben ezek
gy jnnek s mennek, mint a napsugrban tncol
porszemek. A fny megvilgtja a porszemeket, de
nem fgg tlk. Az sem mondhat, hogy ltrehozza
ket. De mg azt sem lehet mondani, hogy tud
rluk.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: I am asking you a question and you are
answering. Are you conscious of the question and
the answer?
M: In reality I am neither hearing nor answering. In
the world of events the question happens and the
answer happens. Nothing happens to me.
Everything just happens.
Q: And you are the witness?
M: What does witness mean? Mere knowledge. It
rained and now the rain is over. I did not get wet. I
know it rained, but I am not affected. I just witnessed
the rain.
Q: The fully realised man, spontaneously abiding in
the supreme state, appears to eat, drink and so on.
Is he aware of it, or not?
M: That in which consciousness happens, the
universal consciousness or mind, we call the ether
of consciousness. All the objects of consciousness
form the universe. What is beyond both, supporting
both, is the supreme state, a state of utter stillness
and silence. Whoever goes there, disappears. It is
unreachable by words, or mind. You may call it God,
or Parabrahman, or Supreme Reality, but these are
names given by the mind. It is the nameless,
contentless, effortless and spontaneous state,
beyond being and not being.
Q: But does one remain conscious?
M: As the universe is the body of the mind, so is
consciousness the body of the supreme. It is not
conscious, but it gives rise to consciousness.
Q: In my daily actions much goes by habit,
automatically. I am aware of the general purpose,
but not of each movement in detail. As my
consciousness broadens and deepens, details tend
to recede, leaving me free for the general trends.
Does not the same happens to a gnani, but more
so?
M: On the level of consciousness -- yes. In the
supreme state, no. This state is entirely one and
indivisible, a single solid block of reality. The only
way of knowing it is to be it. The mind cannot reach
it. To perceive it does not need the senses; to know
it, does not need the mind.
Q: That is how God runs the world.
M: God is not running the world.
37
K: n felteszek neked egy krdst, te vlaszolsz.
Tudatban vagy a krdsnek s a vlasznak?
M: Valjban n sem nem hallok, sem nem
vlaszolok. Az esemnyek vilgban megtrtnik a
krds, s megtrtnik a vlasz. Semmi nem velem
trtnik. Minden csak gy megtrtnik.
K: s te a tan vagy?
M: Mit jelent, hogy tan? Csupn tudomst. Eddig
esett, s most elllt. Nem ztam meg. Tudom, hogy
esett, de az nem volt rm hatssal. Csak tanja
voltam az esnek.
K: A spontn mdon a legfelsbb llapotban lv,
teljesen megvalsult ember is lthatan eszik, iszik
stb. Tudatban van ennek, vagy sem?
M: Azt, ami a tudatossgot magban foglalja, az
egyetemes tudatossgot, vagy elmt, gy nevezzk,
hogy a tudatossg mennyboltja. A tudatossg
objektumai alkotjk az univerzumot. Ami
mindezeken tl van, mindezeket tmogatja, a
legfelsbb llapot, a tkletes nyugalom s csend
llapota. Aki eljut oda, eltnik. Ez szavakkal vagy
elmvel elrhetetlen. Nevezheted Istennek, vagy
Parabrahmannak, vagy Legfelsbb Valsgnak, de
ezeket a neveket az elme adja. Ez egy lten s
nemlten tli, kimondhatatlan, tartalom nlkli,
erfeszts-mentes s spontn llapot.
K: De megmarad a tudatossg?
M: Ahogy az univerzum az elmnek a teste, gy
teste a tudatossgnak a legfelsbb. maga nem
tudatos, de oka a tudatossgnak.
K: Napi tevkenysgeim tbbnyire megszoksbl,
automatikusan mennek vgbe. Tudatban vagyok
az ltalnos clnak, de minden mozdulatnak nem.
Ahogy tudatossgom szlesedik s mlyl, a
rszletek egyre inkbb visszahzdnak, szabadon
hagyva engem az ltalnos tendencikra. Nem
ugyanez trtnik egy gnani esetn, de mg ennl is
tbb?
M: A tudatossg szintjn igen. A legfelsbb
llapotban, nem. Az az llapot kizrlag egy s
oszthatatlan, a valsg egyetlen, szilrd egysget
alkot blokkja. Megismersnek egyetlen mdja
azz lenni. Az elme nem rheti azt el. szlelshez
nincs szksg rzkszervekre; ismershez nincs
szksg elmre.
K: Ez az, ahogy Isten a vilgot mkdteti.
M: Nem Isten mkdteti a vilgot.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: Then who is doing it?
M: Nobody. All happens by itself. You are asking the
question and you are supplying the answer. And you
know the answer when you ask the question. All is a
play in consciousness. All divisions are illusory. You
can know the false only. The true you must yourself
be.
Q: There is the witnessed consciousness and there
is the witnessing consciousness. Is the second the
supreme?
M: There are the two -- the person and the witness,
the observer. When you see them as one, and go
beyond, you are in the supreme state. It is not
perceivable, because it is what makes perception
possible. It is beyond being and not being. It is
neither the mirror nor the image in the mirror. It is
what is -- the timeless reality, unbelievably hard and
solid.
Q: The gnani -- is he the witness or the Supreme?
M: He is the Supreme, of course, but he can also be M: A Legfelsbb, termszetesen, de tekinthet az
viewed as the universal witness. univerzlis szemllnek is.
Q: But he remains a person?
M: When you believe yourself to be a person, you
see persons everywhere. In reality there are no
persons, only threads of memories and habits. At
the moment of realisation the person ceases.
Identity remains, but identity is not a person, it is
inherent in the reality itself. The person has no being
in itself; it is a reflection in the mind of the witness,
the 'I am', which again is a mode of being.
Q: Is the Supreme conscious?
M: Neither conscious nor unconscious, I am telling
you from experience.
Q: Pragnanam Brahma. What is this Pragna?
M: It is the un-selfconscious knowledge of life itself.
Q: Is it vitality, the energy of life, livingness?
M: Energy comes first. For everything is a form of
energy. Consciousness is most differentiated in the
waking state. Less so in dream. Still less in sleep.
Homogeneous -- in the fourth state. Beyond is the
inexpressible monolithic reality, the abode of the
gnani.
Q: I have cut my hand. It healed. By what power did
it heal?
38
K: Akkor ki?
M: Senki. Minden nmagtl trtnik. Te teszed fel
a krdst, s te vlaszolsz. s mr akkor tudod a
vlaszt, amikor a krdst felteszed. Minden a
tudatossg jtka. Minden feloszts illuzrikus.
Csak a hamisat tudhatod. Az igazsgnak lenned
kell.
K: Van a szemllt tudatossg s van a szemll
tudatossg. A msodik a legfelsbb?
M: Itt ez a kt dolog a szemly s a tan, a
megfigyel. Amikor egynek ltod, s meghaladod
ket, akkor vagy a legfelsbb llapotban. Ez nem
szlelhet, mert ez az, ami az szlelst lehetv
teszi. Ami tl van lten s nemlten. Ami nem a
tkr, sem nem a tkrkp. Ez az, ami az idtlen
valsg, hihetetlenl kemny s szilrd.
K: A gnani a szemll, vagy a Legfelsbb?
K: De szemly marad?
M: Amikor magadat szemlynek hiszed, akkor
mindentt szemlyeket ltsz. A valsgban
nincsenek szemlyek, csak emlkek s szoksok
szlai vannak. A megvalsuls pillanatban a
szemly megsznik. Az identits megmarad, de az
identits nem szemly, az magnak a valsgnak a
velejrja. A szemly nem br nll lttel, csak egy
tkrzds a szemll elmjben, az n vagyok-
ban, egy jabb mdjaknt a ltezsnek.
K: A Legfelsbb tudatos?
M: Sem nem tudatos, sem nem nem-tudatos, ezt
tapasztalatbl mondom.
K: Pragnanam Brahma. Mi a Pragna?
M: Magnak az letnek a tudatossg nlkli tudsa.
K: leter, az let energija, lettelisg?
M: Energia elssorban. Minthogy minden az energia
egy formja. A tudatossg az brenlt llapotban a
legdifferenciltabb. lomban kevsb. Alvskor mg
kevsb. A negyedik llapotban homogn. Ezen a
kifejezhetetlen monolitikus realitson tl van a gnani
tartzkodsi helye.
K: Elvgtam a kezem. Meggygyult. Milyen er ltal
gygyult meg?
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
M: By the power of life.
Q: What is that power?
M: It is consciousness. AII is conscious.
Q: What is the source of consciousness?
M: Consciousness itself is the source of everything.
Q: Can there be life without consciousness?
M: No, nor consciousness without life. They are both
one. But in reality only the Ultimate is. The rest is a
matter of name and form. And as long as you cling
to the idea that only what has name and shape
exists, the Supreme will appear to you nonexisting.
When you understand that names and shapes are
hollow shells without any content whatsoever, and
what is real is nameless and formless, pure energy
of life and light of consciousness, you will be at
peace -- immersed in the deep silence of reality.
Q: If time and space are mere illusions and you are
beyond, please tell me what is the weather in New
York. Is it hot or raining there?
M: How can I tell you? Such things need special
training. Or, just travelling to New York. I may be
quite certain that I am beyond time and space, and
yet unable to locate myself at will at some point of
time and space. I am not interested enough; I see no
purpose in undergoing a special Yogic training. I
have just heard of New York. To me it is a word.
Why should I know more than the word conveys?
Every atom may be a universe, as complex as ours.
Must I know them all? I can -- if I train.
Q: In putting the question about the weather in New
York, where did I make the mistake?
M: The world and the mind are states of being. The
supreme is not a state. It pervades, all states, but it
is not a state of something else. It is entirely
uncaused, independent, complete in itself, beyond
time and space, mind and matter.
Q: By what sign do you recognise it?
M: That's the point that it leaves no traces. There is
nothing to recognise it by. It must be seen directly,
by giving up all search for signs and approaches.
When all names and forms have been given up, the
real is with you. You need not seek it. Plurality and
diversity are the play of the mind only. Reality is one.
39
M: Az leter ltal.
K: Mi ez az er?
M: Tudatossg. Minden tudatos.
K: Mi a tudatossg forrsa?
M: Maga a tudatossg a forrsa mindennek.
K: Lehet let tudatossg nlkl?
M: Nem, s tudatossg sem let nlkl. Ezek egyek.
De valjban csak a Vgs ltezik. A maradkrl
szl a nv s a forma. s amg ahhoz az idehoz
ragaszkodsz, hogy csak a nvvel s formval
rendelkezk a ltezk, a Legfelsbb szmodra nem
lteznek fog tnni. Amikor megrted, hogy a nevek
s formk minden tartalmat nlklz res hjak, s
a valdi nv s formanlkli, tiszta letenergia,
tudatossg-fny, akkor megtalltad a bkt s
belemerlsz a valsg mly csendjbe.
K: Ha az id s tr puszta illzik s te meghaladtad
azokat, mondd meg krlek, milyen id van New
Yorkban? St a nap, vagy esik?
M: Hogy tudnm n ezt megmondani neked? Az
ilyen dolgokhoz specilis gyakorls szksges.
Vagy csak New Yorkba kell utazni. Egszen biztos,
hogy meghaladtam az idt s a teret, s mgsem
vagyok kpes thelyezni magam az id s tr
tetszs szerinti pontjra. Nem rdekel a dolog
elgg; azt hiszem, nincs szndkomban elvgezni
egy specilis Yoga trninget. n csak hallomsbl
ismerem New Yorkot. Szmomra ez csak egy sz.
Mirt kellene tbbet tudnom annl, mint amit a sz
hordoz? Minden atom egy, a mienkhez hasonl
bonyolultsg univerzum. Kell nekem mindegyikket
ismerni? Ismerhetnm ha gyakorolnk.
K: A New Yorki idjrsrl feltett krdsemben hol a
hiba?
M: A vilg s az elme a ltezs llapotai. A
legfelsbb nem llapot. that minden llapotot, de
nem llapota valami msnak. Teljesen ok nlkli,
fggetlen, nmagban teljes, tl idn s tren,
elmn s anyagon.
K: De milyen jelek alapjn ismerhet fel?
M: Ez a lnyeg, hogy nem hagy nyomokat. Semmi
nem teszi lehetv a felismerst. Kzvetlenl kell
ltni, feladva mindenfle keresst jeleknek s
megkzeltseknek. Amikor minden nevet s formt
feladtl, a valsg van veled. Sokflesg s
klnbzsg jtka csak az elmnek. A valsg
egy.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: If reality leaves no evidence, there is no speaking K: Ha a valsgra nincs bizonytk, akkor nincs rla
about it.
M: It is. It cannot be denied. It is deep and dark,
mystery beyond mystery. But it is, while all else
merely happens.
Q: Is it the Unknown?
M: It is beyond both, the known and the unknown.
But I would rather call it the known, than the
unknown. For whenever something is known, it is
the real that is known.
Q: Is silence an attribute of the real?
M: This too is of the mind. All states and conditions
are of the mind.
Q: What is the place of samadhi?
M: Not making use of one's consciousness is
samadhi. You just leave your mind alone. You want
nothing, neither-from your body nor from your mind.
14. Appearances and the Reality
Questioner: Repeatedly you have been saying that
events are causeless, a thing just happens and no
cause can be assigned to it. Surely everything has a
cause, or several causes. How am I to understand
the causelessness of things?
Maharaj: From the highest point of view the world
has no cause.
Q: But what is your own experience?
M: Everything is uncaused. The world has no cause. M: Minden nmagtl val. A vilgnak nincs oka.
Q: I am not enquiring about the causes that led to
the creation of the world. Who has seen the creation
of the world? It may even be without a beginning,
always existing. But I am not talking of the world. I
take the world to exist -- somehow. It contains so
many things. Surely, each must have a cause, or
several causes.
M: Once you create for yourself a world in time and
space, governed by causality, you are bound to
search for and find causes for everything. You put
the question and impose an answer.
Q: My question is very simple: I see all kinds of
things and I understand that each must have a
cause, or a number of causes. You say they are
uncaused -- from your point of view. But, to you
nothing has being and, therefore, the question of
40
mit beszlni.
M: Az van. Cfolhatatlan. Mly s stt, misztrium
feletti misztrium. De van, mg minden ms pusztn
trtnik.
K: Az az Ismeretlen?
M: Az tl van mind ismerten, mind ismeretlenen. De
inkbb az ismertnek neveznm, mint az
ismeretlennek. Mert brmikor, amikor valami ismert,
a valdi az, ami ismert.
K: Tulajdonsga a csend a valsgnak?
M: Ez is az elme sajtja. Minden llapot s felttel
az elme sajtja.
K: Hol a samadhi helye?
M: A tudatossg nem hasznlata a samadhi. Csak
hagyd elmdet magra. Ne akarj semmit, sem a
testedtl, sem az elmdtl.
14. Ltszatok s a realits
Krdez: Tbb zben emltetted, hogy az
esemnyek ok nlkliek, a dolgok csak gy
megtrtnnek, s nem tulajdonthat nekik ok.
Biztos van mindennek oka, esetleg tbb is. Hogy kell
rtelmeznem a dolgok ok nlklisgt?
Maharaj: A legfelsbb nzpontbl a vilgnak nincs
oka.
K: De mi a te tapasztalatod?
K: Nem a vilg teremtshez vezet okokat
tudakolom. Ki ltta a vilg teremtst? Lehet, hogy
az kezdet nlkli, rkk ltez. De n nem a
vilgrl beszlek. A vilgot valami mdon
lteznek ttelezem. Bizonyra minden rendelkezik
okkal, vagy okokkal.
M: Amint teremtesz magadnak egy id- s trbeli,
kauzalits ltal kormnyozott vilgot, akkor arra
knyszerlsz, hogy mindennek az okt keresd.
Felteszed a krdst, s elrsz egy vlaszt.
K: A krdsem nagyon egyszer: a dolgokat ltva
gy gondolom, hogy mindegyiknek kell, hogy legyen
egy, vagy szmos oka. Te azt mondod, hogy a te
nzpontodbl ok nlkliek. De szmodra semmi
nem ltezik, ezrt a kauzalits krdse fel sem
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
causation does not arise. Yet you seem to admit the merl. Mgis gy tnik, hogy a dolgok ltezst
existence of things, but deny them causation. This is elfogadod, csak okozatisgukat tagadod. Ez az, amit
what I cannot grasp. Once you accept the existence nem tudok megrteni. Ha egyszer elfogadod a
of things, why reject their causes? dolgok ltezst, mirt utastod el azok okait?

M: I see only consciousness, and know everything M: n csak tudatossgot ltok, s mindent csak
to be but consciousness, as you know the picture on tudatossgknt ismerek, mint ahogy te tudod, hogy
the cinema screen to be but light. a mozivsznon lv kp csak fny.

Q: Still, the movements of light have a cause. K: Node a fny mozgsainak oka van.

M: The light does not move at all. You know very M: A fny egyltaln nem mozog. Nagyon jl tudod,
well that the movement is illusory, a sequence of hogy a mozgs illuzrikus, megszaktsok s
interceptions and colourings in the film. What moves sznezdsek sorozata a film. Ami mozog, az a film
is the film -- which is the mind. vagyis az elme.

Q: This does not make the picture causeless. The
film is there, and the actors with the technicians, the
director, the producer, the various manufacturers.
The world is governed by causality. Everything is
inter-linked.
M: Ez nem teszi a kpet oktalann. Ott van a film, s
aztn a mvsz a technikusokkal, a rendez, a
producer, a klnbz gyrtk. A vilgot okok ltal
vezrelt. Minden sszekapcsoldik.

M: Of course, everything is inter-linked. And M: Termszetesen, minden sszekapcsoldik. s

therefore everything has numberless causes. The
entire universe contributes to the least thing. A thing
is as it is, because the world is as it is. You see, you
deal in gold ornaments and I -- in gold. Between the
different ornaments there is no causal relation.
When you re-melt an ornament to make another,
there is no causal relation between the two. The
common factor is the gold. But you cannot say gold
is the cause. It cannot be called a cause, for it
causes nothing by itself. It is reflected in the mind as
'I am', as the ornament's particular name and shape.
Yet all is only gold. In the same way reality makes
everything possible and yet nothing that makes a
thing what it is, its name and form, comes from
reality.
ezrt mindennek megszmllhatatlan oka van. Az
egsz univerzum kzremkdik a legkisebb
dologban is. Minden dolog azrt olyan, amilyen,
mert a vilg olyan amilyen. Nzd, te az arany
kszerekkel foglalkozol, s n az arannyal. A
klnbz kszerek kztt nincs oksgi
sszefggs. Amikor beolvasztasz egy kszert,
hogy msikat csinlj, nincs oksgi sszefggs a
kett kztt. A kzs tnyez az arany. De nem
mondhatod, hogy az arany az ok. Nem nevezhet
oknak, mert nmagban semmit nem okoz. Az
elmben n vagyok-knt, a dsztrgyak egyedi
neveknt s formjaknt tkrzdik. Mgis minden
csak arany. Ugyanilyen mdon a valsg tesz
mindent lehetsgess, s mgsincs semmi, ami
azz teszi a dolgot, ami, annak neve s formja a
valsgbl jn.

But why worry so much about causation? What do
causes matter, when things themselves are
transient? Let come what comes and let go what
goes -- why catch hold of things and enquire about
their causes?
De mirt kellene annyira aggdni az oksg miatt? Mi
teszi az okokat fontoss, mikor a dolgok maguk
mlandk? Hadd jjjn, ami jn, s hadd menjen,
ami megy mirt ragadnnk meg a dolgokat s
kutatnnk azok okait?

Q: From the relative point of view, everything must K: Viszonylagos nzpontbl mindennek kell, hogy
have a cause. oka legyen.

M: Of what use is the relative view to you? You are M: Mi haszna a viszonylagos nzpontnak
able to look from the absolute point of view -- why go szmodra? Kpes vagy abszolt nzpontbl nzni
back to the relative? Are you afraid of the absolute? mirt lpsz vissza a viszonylagoshoz? Flsz az
abszolttl?

Q: I am afraid. I am afraid of falling asleep over my
so-called absolute certainties. For living a life
decently absolutes don't help. When you need a
shirt, you buy cloth, call a tailor and so on.
K: Flek. Flek, hogy lomba zuhanok az n
gynevezett abszolt bizonyossgaimon tl. Abban,
hogy az letet elfogadhat mdon ld, az abszolt
nem segt. Amikor ruhra van szksged anyagot
veszel, keresel egy szabt, s gy tovbb.

41
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
M: All this talk shows ignorance.
Q: And what is the knower's view?
M: There is only light and the light is all. Everything
else is but a picture made of light. The picture is in
the light and the light is in the picture. Life and
death, self and not-self --- abandon all these ideas.
They are of no use to you.
Q: From what point of view you deny causation?
From the relative -- the universe is the cause of
everything. From the absolute -- there is no thing at
all.
M: From which state are you asking?
Q: From the daily waking state, in which alone all
these discussions take place.
M: In the waking state all these problems arise, for
such is its nature. But, you are not always in that
state. What good can you do in a state into which
you fall and from which you emerge, helplessly. In
what way does it help you to know that things are
causally related -- as they may appear to be in your
waking state?
Q: The world and the waking state emerge and
subside together.
M: When the mind is still, absolutely silent, the
waking state is no more.
Q: Words like God, universe, the total, absolute,
supreme are just noises in the air, because no
action can be taken on them.
M: You are bringing up questions which you alone
can answer.
Q: Don't brush me off like this. You are so quick to
speak for the totality, the universe and such
imaginary things. They cannot come and forbid you
to talk on their behalf. I hate those irresponsible
generalizations. And you are so prone to personalise
them. Without causality there will be no order; nor
purposeful action will be possible.
M: Do you want to know all the causes of each
event? Is it possible?
Q: I know it is not possible. All I want to know is if
there are causes for everything and the causes can
be influenced, thereby affecting the events?
42
M: Ez az egsz beszd tudatlansgra utal.
K: s mi a tud nzpontja?
M: Csak fny van, s a fny minden. Minden ms
csak fnybl kszlt kp. A kp a fnyben van, s a
fny a kpben. let s hall, n s nem-n add fel
mindezen idekat. Azoknak semmi hasznuk
szmodra.
K: Milyen nzpontbl tagadod az oksgot? Relatv
nzpontbl az univerzum az oka mindennek.
Abszolt nzpontbl egyltaln nem lteznek
dolgok.
M: Milyen llapotbl krdezel?
K: A mindennapos brenlt llapotbl, amelyben
kizrlag ezek a magyarzatok lteznek.
M: Mindezen problmk az brenlti llapotban
annak ilyetn termszete miatt merlnek. De nem
mindig vagy abban az llapotban. Mi jt tehetsz egy
olyan llapotban, amelybe belezuhansz, majd
elbukkansz belle, tehetetlenl? Mi mdon segt
ez, megismerd a dolgok oksgi fggst
amikppen azok brenlti llapotodban
mutatkozhatnak?
K: A vilg s az brenlti llapot egytt jelennek
meg s szllnak al.
M: Amikor az elme csendes, abszolt csendes, az
brenlti llapot nem ltezik tbb.
K: Az olyan szavak, mint Isten, vilgmindensg,
abszolt, legfelsbb pusztn zajok a levegben,
mert semmilyen tevkenysg nem kthet hozzjuk.
M: Olyan krdseket vetsz fel, amelyeket egyedl te
tudsz megvlaszolni.
K: Ne rzz le ezen a mdon. Olyan gyorsan tvltod
a tmt a totalitsra, az univerzumra s hasonl
elkpzelt dolgokra. Azok nem tudnak idejnni, s
megtiltani, hogy az rdekkben beszlj. Utlom a
meggondolatlan ltalnostsokat. s nagyon
hajlamos vagy r, hogy egyniv formld azokat.
Kauzalits nlkl nem lenne rend, s tervszer
tevkenysg sem lenne lehetsges.
M: Szeretnd tudni mindegyik esemny sszes
okt? Lehetsges ez?
K: Tudom, hogy nem lehetsges. Csak annyit
akarok tudni, hogy van-e oka mindennek, s az okok
befolysolhatk-e, ezltal lehet-e hatni az
esemnyekre?
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
M: To influence events, you need not know the
causes. What a roundabout way of doing things. Are
you not the source and the end of every event?
Control it at the source itself.
Q: Every morning I pick up the newspaper and read
with dismay that the world's sorrows -- poverty,
hatred and wars -- continue unabated. My questions
are concerning the fact of sorrow, the cause, the
remedy. Don't brush me off saying that it is
Buddhism. Don't label me. Your insistence on
causelessness removes all hope of the world ever
changing.
M: You are confused, because you believe that you
are in the world, not the world in you. Who came first
-- you or your parents? You imagine that you were
born at a certain time and place, that you have a
father and a mother, a body and a name. This is
your sin and your calamity. Surely you can change
your world if you work at it. By all means, work. Who
stops you? I have never discouraged you. Causes or
no causes, you have made this world and you can
change it.
Q: A causeless world is entirely beyond my control.
M: On the contrary, a world of which you are the
only source and ground is fully within your power to
change. What is created can be always dissolved
and re-created. All will happen as you want it,
provided you really want it.
Q: All I want to know is how to deal with the world's
sorrows.
M: You have created them out of your own desires
and fears, you deal with them. All is due to your
having forgotten your own being. Having given
reality to the picture on the screen, you love its
people and suffer for them and seek to save them. It
is just not so. You must begin with yourself. There is
no other way. Work, of course. There is no harm in
working.
Q: Your universe seems to contain every possible
experience. The individual traces a line through it
and experiences pleasant and unpleasant states.
This gives rise to questioning and seeking, which
broaden the outlook and enable the individual to go
beyond his narrow and self-created world limited
and self-centred. This personal world can be
changed -- in time. The universe is timeless and
perfect.
43
M: Az esemnyek befolysolshoz nem kell
ismerned az okokat. Micsoda kerlt a
cselekvshez. Nem te vagy a kiindulpontja s a
vge minden esemnynek? Ellenrizd azt magnl
a forrsnl.
K: Minden reggel veszem az jsgot, s
ktsgbeesssel telve olvasom, hogy a vilg
fjdalmai szegnysg, gyllkds s hbork
tovbbra sem cskkennek. A krdseim e fjdalom
tnyhez, az okokhoz, az ellenszerhez
kapcsoldnak. Ne rzz le mindig azzal, hogy ez
Buddhizmus. Ne cmkzz engem. Az oksg
nlklisg hangoztatsval minden remnyemet
elveszed, hogy a vilg valaha megvltozik.
M: ssze vagy zavarodva, mert azt hiszed, hogy te
vagy a vilgban, nem a vilg tebenned. Ki jtt elbb
te vagy a szleid? Azt kpzeled, hogy
megszlettl egy bizonyos idben s helyen, hogy
van egy apd s egy anyd, egy tested s egy
neved. Ez bnd, s balsorsod. Bizonyra meg
tudod vltoztatni a vilgodat, ha dolgozol rajta.
Termszetesen, dolgozz rajta. Ki tart vissza? n ezt
soha nem helytelentem. Okok vagy nem okok, te
csinltad ezt a vilgot, s te tudod megvltoztatni
azt.
K: Egy ok nlkli vilg teljes egszben az
ellenrzsemen kvl ll.
M: Ellenkezleg, egy olyan vilgot, amelynek te
vagy az egyedli forrsa, s alapja, teljesen a te
hatalmadban ll megvltoztatni. Ami teremtetett,
mindig megszntethet s jrateremthet. Minden
gy fog trtnni, ahogy te akarod, feltve, hogy
valban akarod azt.
K: Csak azt akarom tudni, hogyan kezeljem a vilg
csapsait.
M: Te hoztad ltre ket, a sajt vgyaidbl s
flelmeidbl, bnj is velk. Mindez a miatt van, hogy
elfelejtkeztl sajt ltedrl. Realitst adva a film
kpeinek, megszeretted a rajta lv embereket,
szenvedsz rtk, s megmentskre trekszel.
Csakhogy ez nem gy van. nmagaddal kell
kezdened. Nincs ms t. Dolgozz, termszetesen.
Semmi baj nincs a munkval.
K: gy ltszik, hogy a te univerzumod minden
lehetsges tapasztalatot tartalmaz. Az egyn egy
rajta keresztl halad vonalat kvetve kellemes s
kellemetlen llapotokat tapasztal. Ez krdezshez
s keresshez vezet, amely szlesti ltkrt, s
lehetv teszi, hogy meghaladja az szk, s maga
teremtette korltos vilgt, s nkzpontsgt. Ez
a szemlyes vilg megvltoztathat idvel. Az
univerzum idtlen, s tkletes.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
M: To take appearance for reality is a grievous sin
and the cause of all calamities. You are the all-
pervading, eternal and infinitely creative awareness -
- consciousness. All else is local and temporary.
Don't forget what you are. In the meantime work to
your heart's content. Work and knowledge should go
hand in hand.
M: Azt felttelezni, hogy a realitsnak kls
megjelense van, fjdalomhoz vezet oktalansg,
s minden szerencstlensg oka. Te vagy a mindent
betlt, rk s vgtelen teremt bersg
tudatossg. Minden ms helyi jelleg, s tmeneti.
Ne feledd, mi vagy. Dolgozz kzben szved
elgedettsgn. Munka s tuds kz a kzben kell,
hogy haladjanak.

Q: My own feeling is that my spiritual development is
not in my hands. Making one's own plans and
carrying them out leads no where. I just run in circles
round myself. When God considers the fruit to be
ripe, He will pluck it and eat it. Whichever fruit
seems green to Him will remain on the world's tree
for another day.
K: Az az rzsem, hogy spiritulis fejldsem nem
az n hatskrm. Sajt terv ksztse, s annak
kivitelezse, sehov sem vezet. Csak krbe-krbe
futok magam krl. Isten ltja, hogy a gymlcs
megrett, akkor leszaktja, s megeszi. Ha
valamely gymlcs zldnek tetszik Neki, fennhagyja
a vilg fjn, mg egy napra.

M: You think God knows you? Even the world He M: Azt hiszed, Isten tud rlad? Mg a vilgrl sem
does not know. tud.

Q: Yours is a different God. Mine is different. Mine is K: A tied egy msik Isten. Az enym ms. Az enym
merciful. He suffers along with us. irgalmas. velnk egytt szenved.

M: You pray to save one, while thousands die. And if M: Te egy megmentsrt imdkozol, mikzben
all stop dying, there will be no space on earth ezrek halnak meg. s ha megsznne a hall,
elfogyna a hely a Fldn.

Q: I am not afraid of death. My concern is with K: n nem flem a hallt. Az n gondom a csapsok
sorrow and suffering. My God is a simple God and s a szenveds. Az n Istenem egyszer Isten, s
rather helpless. He has no power to compel us to be elgg tehetetlen. Nincs hatalma arra knyszerteni,
wise. He can only stand and wait. hogy blcsek legynk. csak ll s vr.

M: If you and your God are both helpless, does it not M: Ha te s a te Istened is tehetetlenek vagytok,
imply that the world is accidental? And if it is. the abbl nem az kvetkezik, hogy a vilg esetleges?
only thing you can do is to go beyond it. s ha gy van, az egyetlen dolog, amit tehetsz,
meghaladni azt.

15. The Gnani 15. A Gnani

Questioner: Without God's power nothing can be Krdez: Isten hatalma nlkl semmit nem lehet
done. Even you would not be sitting here and talking tenni. Mg te sem lhetnl itt, s beszlhetnl
to us without Him. neknk Rla.

Maharaj: All is His doing, no doubt. What is it to me,
since I want nothing? What can God give me, or
take away from me? What is mine is mine and was
mine even when God was not. Of course, it is a very
tiny little thing, a speck -- the sense 'I am', the fact of
being. This is my own place, nobody gave it to me.
The earth is mine; what grows on it is God's.
Maharaj: Minden az mve, nincs ktsg. Mi az
nekem, miutn semmit nem akarok? Mi az, amit
Isten adhat nekem, vagy elvehet tlem? Ami az
enym, az az enym, s mg akkor is az enym
volt, amikor Isten nem volt. Termszetesen, ez egy
nagyon apr, kicsi dolog, egy szikra az n vagyok
rzse, a ltezs tnye. Ez az n sajt helyem, ezt
senki nem adta nekem. A Fld az enym; ami rajta
n, az Isten.

Q: Did God take the earth on rent from you? K: Isten brbe vette tled a Fldet?

M: God is my devotee and did all this for me. M: Isten az n imdm, s mindezt rtem tette.

Q: Is there no God apart from you? K: Isten nem tled klnll?

44
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
M: How can there be? 'I am' is the root, God is the
tree. Whom am I to worship, and what for?
Q: Are you the devotee or the object of devotion?
M: I am neither, I am devotion itself.
Q: There is not enough devotion in the world.
M: You are always after the improvement of the
world. Do you really believe that the world is waiting
for you to be saved?
Q: I just do not know how much I can do for the
world. All I can do, is to try. Is there anything else
you would like me to do?
M: Without you is there a world? You know all about
the world, but about yourself you know nothing. You
yourself are the tools of your work, you have no
other tools. Why don't you take care of the tools
before you think of the work?
Q: I can wait, while the world cannot.
M: By not enquiring you keep the world waiting.
Q: Waiting for what?
M: For somebody who can save it.
Q: God runs the world, God will save it.
M: That's what you say. Did God come and tell you
that the world is His creation and concern and not
yours?
Q: Why should it be my sole concern?
M: Consider. The world in which you live, who else
knows about it?
Q: You know. Everybody knows.
M: Did anybody come from outside of your world to
tell you? Myself and everybody else appear and
disappear in your world. We are all at your mercy.
Q: It cannot be so bad. I exist in your world as you
exist in mine.
M: You have no evidence of my world. You are
completely wrapped up in the world of your own
making.
Q: I see. Completely, but -- hopelessly?
M: Within the prison of your world appears a man
45
M: Hogyan lehetne az? n vagyok a gykr, Isten
a fa. Kit kellene imdjak, s mirt?
K: Te az imd vagy, vagy pedig az imdat trgya?
M: Egyik sem vagyok, n maga az imdat vagyok.
K: Nincs elg odaads a vilgban.
M: llandan a vilg jobbtst keresed. Valban azt
hiszed, hogy a vilg arra vr, hogy te megmentsd?
K: Csak nem tudom, hogy mennyit tehetek a
vilgrt. Amit megtehetek, azt mind megprblom.
Van valami egyb, amit szeretnl, hogy megtegyek?
M: Nlkled ltezik a vilg? Mindent tudsz a vilgrl,
de nmagadrl nem tudsz semmit. Te magad vagy
az eszkz a munkdhoz, nincs szksged ms
eszkzkre. Mirt nem gondoskodsz az eszkzkrl,
mieltt a munkra gondolsz?
K: n tudok vrni, mg a vilg nem tud.
M: Kutats nlkl a vilgot vrakozsban tartod.
K: Mire val vrakozsban?
M: Valakire, aki megmentheti.
K: Isten mkdteti a vilgot, Isten fogja megmenteni.
M: Ezt te mondod. Isten jtt s azt mondta neked,
hogy a vilg az teremtse s rdekeltsge, s
nem a tid?
K: Mirt kellene annak az n egyedli
rdekeltsgemnek lenni?
M: Fontold meg. A vilgrl, amelyben lsz, ki tud
mg?
K: Te tudsz. Mindenki tud.
M: Jtt brki a vilgodon kvlrl, hogy ezt elmondja
neked? n magam, s mindenki ms megjelennk,
s eltnnk a te vilgodban. Mi mind neked vagyunk
kiszolgltatva.
K: Az nem lehet olyan rossz. n is gy ltezem a te
vilgodban, mint ahogy te ltezel az enymben.
M: Neked nincs bizonytkod az n vilgomrl.
Teljesen be vagy burkolzva a sajt magad
ksztette vilgba.
K: rtem. Teljesen, de remnytelenl?
M: A vilgod brtnben megjelenik egy ember, aki
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
who tells you that the world of painful contradictions,
which you have created, is neither continuous nor
permanent and is based on a misapprehension. He
pleads with you to get out of it, by the same way by
which you got into it. You got into it by forgetting
what you are and you will get out of it by knowing
yourself as you are.
Q: In what way does it affect the world?
M: When you are free of the world, you can do
something about it. As long as you are a prisoner of
it, you are helpless to change it. On the contrary,
whatever you do will aggravate the situation.
Q: Righteousness will set me free.
M: Righteousness will undoubtedly make you and
your world a comfortable, even happy place. But
what is the use? There is no reality in it. It cannot
last.
Q: God will help.
M: To help you God must know your existence. But
you and your world are dream states. In dream you
may suffer agonies. None knows them, and none
can help you.
Q: So all my questions, my search and study are of
no use?
M: These are but the stirrings of a man who is tired
of sleeping. They are not the causes of awakening,
but its early signs. But, you must not ask idle
questions, to which you already know the answers.
Q: How am I to get a true answer?
M: By asking a true question -- non-verbally, but by
daring to live according to your lights. A man willing
to die for truth will get it.
Q: Another question. There is the person. There is
the knower of the person. There is the witness. Are
the knower and the witness the same, or are they
separate states?
M: The knower and the witness are two or one?
When the knower is seen as separate from the
known, the witness stands alone. When the known
and the knower are seen as one, the witness
becomes one with them.
Q: Who is the gnani? The witness or the supreme?
M: The gnani is the supreme and also the witness.
He is both being and awareness. In relation to
46
kzli veled, hogy a fjdalmas ellentmondsok,
amiket teremtettl, se nem folyamatosak, se nem
tartsak, s tvedsen alapulnak. Igyekszik rvenni,
hogy lpj ki belle, ugyanazon a mdon, ahogy
belptl. Azltal lptl be, hogy elfelejtetted ki vagy,
s azltal fogsz kilpni, hogy megismered magad,
annak, aki vagy.
K: Milyen mdon hat ez a vilgra?
M: Amikor mentes vagy a vilgtl, tudsz tenni
valamit rte. Amg a rabja vagy, tehetetlen vagy
megvltoztatni azt. Ellenkezleg, brmit teszel,
slyosbtani fogod a helyzetet.
K: Az igazsgos cselekedet szabadd tesz.
M: Az igazsgos cselekedet ktsgtelenl tged s
a vilgodat nyugodt lelkiismeretv, st boldog
helly tesz. De mi a gyakorlat? Ennek nincs
realitsa. Ez nem lehet tarts.
K: Isten segteni fog.
M: Ahhoz, hogy segtsen, Istennek tudnia kell a
ltezsedrl. De te a vilgoddal egytt llom llapot
vagytok. Elfordulhat, hogy lmods kzben
gytrdsz. Senki nem tud rla, s senki nem tud
segteni rajta.
K: Teht minden krdsem, keressem s
tanulsom hibaval?
M: Ez csak egy alvsba belefradt ember
bredezse. Nem okai a felbredsnek, csak korai
jelei annak. De nem szabad olyan hibaval
krdseket feltenned, amelyekre mr tudod a
vlaszt.
K: Hogyan kapom meg az igazi vlaszt?
M: Az igazi krds feltevsvel nem szavak ltal,
hanem fnyeddel sszhangban lv, btor lettel.
Az kapja meg, aki ksz meghalni az igazsgrt.
K: Ms krds. Van a szemly. Van az, aki a
szemlyt ismeri. Van a tan. Lehet-e ugyanaz az
ismer s a tan, vagy ezek eltr llapotok?
M: Az ismer s a tan kett, vagy egy? Amikor az
ismer s az ismert klnbznek ltszik, akkor a
tan nll. Amikor az ismert s az ismer egynek
ltszik, akkor a tan eggy vlik velk.
K: Ki a gnani? A tan, vagy a legfelsbb?
M: A gnani a legfelsbb is, s a tan is. a ltezs,
s ugyanakkor az bersg is. A tudatossghoz
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
consciousness he is awareness. In relation to the
universe he is pure being.
Q: And what about the person? What comes first,
the person or the knower.
M: The person is a very small thing. Actually it is a
composite, it cannot be said to exist by itself.
Unperceived, it is just not there. It is but the shadow
of the mind, the sum total of memories. Pure being
is reflected in the mirror of the mind, as knowing.
What is known takes the shape of a person, based
on memory and habit. It is but a shadow, or a
projection of the knower onto the screen of the mind.
Q: The mirror is there, the reflection is there. But
where is the sun?
M: The supreme is the sun.
Q: It must be conscious.
M: It is neither conscious nor unconscious. Don't
think of it in terms of consciousness or
unconsciousness. It is the life, which contains both
and is beyond both.
Q: Life is so intelligent. How can it be unconscious?
M: You talk of the unconscious when there is a
lapse in memory. In reality there is only
consciousness. All life is conscious, all
consciousness -- alive.
Q: Even stones?
M: Even stones are conscious and alive.
Q: The worry with me is that I am prone to denying
existence to what I cannot imagine.
M: You would be wiser to deny the existence of what M: Blcsebben tennd, ha annak a ltezst
you imagine. It is the imagined that is unreal. utastand el, amit elkpzelsz. Az elkpzelt az, ami
nem vals.
Q: Is all imaginable unreal?
M: Imagination based on memories is unreal. The
future is not entirely unreal.
Q: Which part of the future is real and which is not?
M: The unexpected and unpredictable is real.
16. Desirelessness, the Highest Bliss
47
viszonytva, az bersg. Az univerzumhoz
viszonytva, a tiszta ltezs.
K: s mi a vlemnyed a szemlyrl? Melyik az
els, a szemly vagy az ismer?
M: A szemly egy nagyon csekly dolog.
Voltakppen sszetett, de nem tekinthet nmagtl
lteznek. szlelhetetlen, csaknem nincs. Pusztn
az elme rnyka, az emlkek sszessge. A tiszta
ltezs az elme tkrben, tudsknt tkrzdik. Az
ismert lti fel a szemly emlkezeten s
megjelensen alapul formjt, ami csak az
ismernek az elme kpernyjre vetl rnyka,
illetve kivettse.
K: A tkr ott van, a tkrkp ott van. De hol a nap?
M: A legfelsbb a nap.
K: Annak tudatosnak kell lennie.
M: A legfelsbb sem nem tudatos, sem nem
tudattalan. Ne tudatossg s tudattalansg
terminusaiban gondolkozz. A legfelsbb a mindent
magban foglal, s mindenek fltt ll let.
K: Az let annyira intelligens. Hogyan lehetne
tudattalan?
M: Tudattalansgrl emlkezetkihagys esetn
beszlsz. A valsgban csak tudatossg van.
Minden let tudatos, minden tudatossg l.
K: Mg a kvek is?
M: Mg a kvek is tudatosak s lk.
K: Aggaszt, hogy hajlok az olyan ltezs
elutastsra, amit nem tudok elkpzelni.
K: Minden elkpzelhet valtlan?
M: Az emlkezetre alapozott elkpzels a valtlan.
A jv nem teljesen valszertlen.
K: A jvnek melyik rsze vals, s melyik nem?
M: A vratlan, s kiszmthatatlan a vals.
16. Vgynlklisg, a legnagyobb
boldogsg
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Questioner: I have met many realised people, but
never a liberated man. Have you come across a
liberated man, or does liberation mean, among other
things, also abandoning the body?
Maharaj: What do you mean by realisation and
liberation?
Q: By realisation I mean a wonderful experience of
peace, goodness and beauty, when the world makes
sense and there is an all-pervading unity of both
substance and essence. While such experience
does not last, it cannot be forgotten. It shines in the
mind, both as memory and longing. I know what I
am talking about, for I have had such experiences.
By liberation I mean to be permanently in that
wonderful state. What I am asking is whether
liberation is compatible with the survival of the body.
M: What is wrong with the body?
Q: The body is so weak and short-lived. It creates
needs and cravings. It limits one grievously.
M: So what? Let the physical expressions be limited.
But liberation is of the self from its false and self-
imposed ideas; it is not contained in some particular
experience, however glorious.
Q: Does it last for ever?
M: All experience is time bound. Whatever has a
beginning must have an end.
Q: So liberation, in my sense of the word, does not
exist?
M: On the contrary, one is always free. You are,
both conscious and free to be conscious. Nobody
can take this away from you. Do you ever know
yourself non-existing, or unconscious?
Q: I may not remember, but that does not disprove
my being occasionally unconscious.
M: Why not turn away from the experience to the
experiencer and realise the full import of the only
true statement you can make: 'I am'?
Q: How is it done?
M: There is no 'how' here. Just keep in mind the
feeling 'I am', merge in it, till your mind and feeling
become one. By repeated attempts you will stumble
48
Krdez: Sok megvalsult embert lttam, de
megszabadult embert soha. Te tallkoztl mr
megszabadult emberrel, vagy a megszabaduls is,
mint sok ms dolog, egyben a test feladst is
jelenti?
Maharaj: Mit rtesz megvalsuls s
megszabaduls alatt?
K: Megvalsuls alatt a bknek, jsgnak, s
szpsgnek azt a csodlatos tapasztalatt rtem,
amikor a vilgnak rtelme van, s kialakul annak
mindenre kiterjed egysge, mind szubsztancilis,
mind esszencilis rtelemben. Amg egy ilyen
tapasztalat nem vlik llandv, addig nem
feledhet. Ott ragyog az elmben, mint emlkezet,
mint svrgs. Tudom, mirl beszlek, mert van
nmi tapasztalatom.
Megszabaduls alatt az ebben a csodlatos
llapotban val folyamatos tartzkodst rtem. A
krds az, hogy a megszabaduls
sszeegyeztethet-e a test tllsvel.
M: Mi a baj a testtel?
K: A test annyira gynge s muland.
Szksgleteket s vgyakat teremt. Ami slyosan
lekorltozza az embert.
M: Na s? Hadd korltozzon csak a fizikai mkds.
Legalbb az n megszabadul a hamis, s n-terhel
idektl; ez nem rsze semmilyen klnleges
tapasztalatnak, legyen az brmennyire nagyszer.
K: rkk fog tartani?
M: Minden tapasztalat idben korltos. Aminek
kezdete van, annak kell, hogy legyen vge is.
K: Teht az n rtelmezsem szerinti
megszabaduls nem ltezik?
M: Ellenkezleg, az ember mindig szabad. Tudatos
vagy, ugyanakkor tudatoss vlni szabad. Ezt senki
nem tudja elvenni tled. Ismerted magad nem
lteznek, vagy tudattalannak valaha?
K: Nem emlkszem ilyesmire, de ez nem cfolja azt,
hogy esetenknt tudattalan vagyok.
M: Mirt nem fordulsz a tapasztalattl a tapasztal
fel, s ismered fel a teljes jelentsgt az egyetlen
igaz megllaptsnak: n vagyok?
K: Hogy kell csinlni?
M: Itt nincs hogyan. Csak tartsd az elmdben az
n vagyok rzst, egyeslj vele, mg elmd s
rzsed eggy nem vlnak. Ismtelt
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
on the right balance of attention and affection and prblkozsokkal r fogsz lelni a figyelem s a
your mind will be firmly established in the thought- ragaszkods helyes arnyra, s elmd szilrdan
feeling 'I am'. Whatever you think, say, or do, this meg fog llapodni az n vagyok gondolat-rzsben.
sense of immutable and affectionate being remains Brmit gondolsz, mondasz, vagy csinlsz, a ltnek
as the ever-present background of the mind. ez a megvltozhatatlan s szeretetteljes rzete
elmd mindig jelenlv httere marad.

Q: And you call it liberation? K: s te ezt megszabadulsnak nevezed?

M: I call it normal. What is wrong with being,
knowing and acting effortlessly and happily? Why
consider it so unusual as to expect the immediate
destruction of the body? What is wrong with the
body that it should die? Correct your attitude to your
body and leave it alone. Don't pamper, don't torture.
Just keep it going, most of the time below the
threshold of conscious attention.
M: n ezt normlisnak nevezem. Mi baj az
erfeszts-mentes s boldog ltezssel, tudssal
s cselekvssel? Mirt tekintjk annyira
rendkvlinek, hogy elvrjuk, hogy a test azonnal
elpusztuljon? Mi baj a testtel, hogy annak meg kell
halnia? Vltoztass a testedhez val hozzllsodon,
s bzd nmagra. Ne knyeztesd, ne gytrd.
Mkdst tartsad csak, az id javarszben, a
tudatos figyelem kszbe alatt.

Q: The memory of my wonderful experiences haunts K: Nagyszer lmnyeim gyakran felidzdnek

me. I want them back. bennem. Meg akarom tartani azok emlkeit.

M: Because you want them back, you cannot have
them. The state of craving for anything blocks all
deeper experience. Nothing of value can happen to
a mind which knows exactly what it wants. For
nothing the mind can visualise and want is of much
value.
M: Mert meg akarod ket tartani, ezrt nem lehetnek
a tieid. A brmi irnti vgyakozs llapota meggtol
minden mlyebb tapasztalst. Semmi nem lehet
rtkes egy olyan elme szmra, amely pontosan
tudja, hogy mit akar. Mert semmi olyannak, amit az
elme elkpzel s akar, nincs nagy rtke.

Q: Then what is worth wanting? K: De ht mi a baj az akarssal?

M: Want the best. The highest happiness, the M: A legjobbat akard. A legemelkedettebb
greatest freedom. Desirelessness is the highest boldogsgot, a legnagyobb szabadsgot. A
bliss. vgynlklisg a legnagyobb szabadsg.

Q: Freedom from desire is not the freedom I want. I K: A vgyaktl val szabadsg nem az a
want the freedom to fulfil my longings. szabadsg, amit n akarok. n a vgyaim
beteljestsnek a szabadsgt akarom.

M: You are free to fulfil your longings. As a matter of M: Szabad vagy a vgyaid beteljestsben. Ami azt
fact, you are doing nothing else. illeti, mst sem csinlsz.

Q: I try, but there are obstacles which leave me K: Prblom, de akadlyok llnak az utamban.
frustrated.

M: Overcome them. M: Gyzd le ket.

Q: I cannot, I am too weak. K: Nem tudom, tl gyenge vagyok.

M: What makes you weak? What is weakness? M: Mi tesz gyengv? Mi a gyengesg? Msok
Others fulfil their desires, why don't you? teljestik vgyaikat, te mirt nem?

Q: I must be lacking energy. K: Nincs elg energim.

M: What happened to your energy? Where did it go? M: Mi lett az energiddal? Hov tnt? Nem
Did you not scatter it over so many contradictory pazaroltad tl sok ellentmond vgyra s
desires and pursuits? You don't have an infinite trekvsre? Energia utnptlsod nem vgtelen.
supply of energy.

Q: Why not? K: Mirt nem az?

49
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
M: Your aims are small and low. They do not call for
more. Only God's energy is infinite -- because He
wants nothing for Himself. Be like Him and all your
desires will be fulfilled. The higher your aims and
vaster your desires, the more energy you will have
for their fulfilment. Desire the good of all and the
universe will work with you. But if you want your own
pleasure, you must earn it the hard way. Before
desiring, deserve.
Q: I am engaged in the study of philosophy,
sociology and education. I think more mental
development is needed before I can dream of self-
realisation. Am I on the right track?
M: To earn a livelihood some specialised knowledge
is needed. General knowledge develops the mind,
no doubt. But if you are going to spend your life in
amassing knowledge, you build a wall round
yourself. To go beyond the mind, a well furnished
mind is not needed.
Q: Then what is needed?
M: Distrust your mind, and go beyond.
Q: What shall I find beyond the mind?
M: The direct experience of being, knowing and
loving.
Q: How does one go beyond the mind?
M: There are many starting points -- they all lead to
the same goal. You may begin with selfless work,
abandoning the fruits of action; you may then give
up thinking and end in giving up all desires. Here,
giving up (tyaga) is the operational factor. Or, you
may not bother about any thing you want, or think, or
do and just stay put in the thought and feeling 'I am',
focussing 'I am' firmly in your mind. All kinds of
experience may come to you -- remain unmoved in
the knowledge that all perceivable is transient, and
only the 'I am' endures.
Q: I cannot give all my life to such practices. I have
my duties to attend to.
M: By all means attend to your duties. Action, in
which you are not emotionally involved and which is
beneficial and does not cause suffering will not bind
you. You may be engaged in several directions and
work with enormous zest, yet remain inwardly free
and quiet, with a mirror-like mind, which reflects all,
without being affected.
50
M: A cljaid kicsinyesek s alacsonyrendek. Az
ilyenek nem hvnak el tbbet. Csak Isten energija
vgtelen mert semmit nem akar Magnak. Lgy
olyan, mint , s minden vgyad teljesl. Minl
emelkedettebbek a cljaid, s minl hatalmasabbak
a vgyaid, annl tbb lesz az energid a
teljestskhz. Vgyd a jt, s az univerzum veled
egytt dolgozik. De ha sajt rmdet keresed, azt a
nehezebb ton kell elnyerned. Mieltt vgyakozol,
rdemeld ki.
K: Filozfiai, szociolgiai s pedaggiai
tanulmnyokat folytattam. gy gondolom, tbb
mentlis felkszlsre van szksg, mieltt az
nmegvalstsrl lmodozhatnk. J ton haladok?
M: A kenyered megkeresshez bizonyos
szakismeretekre van szksged. Az ltalnos tuds
fejleszti az elmt, ez nem ktsges. De ha tuds
halmozssal akarod tlteni az leted, falat ptesz
magad krl. Az elme meghaladshoz nincs
szksg kimvelt elmre.
K: Akkor mire van szksg?
M: Ne bzz az elmdben, s tekints mg.
K: Mit keressek az elme mgtt?
M: A ltezs, a tuds s a szeretet kzvetlen
tapasztalatt.
K: Hogy tud az ember tllpni az elmn?
M: Sok kiindulpont ltezik amelyek mind
ugyanahhoz a clhoz vezetnek. Kezdhetsz nzetlen
munkval, a cselekedet eredmnyrl val
lemondssal; azutn feladhatod a gondolkodst s
vgl lemondhatsz minden vgyrl. A kulcstnyez
a felads (tyaga). Vagy esetleg nem veszdsz azzal,
hogy brmilyen dolgot akarsz, elgondolsz, vagy
csinlsz, s csak az n vagyok gondolathoz s
rzshez ragaszkodsz, elmdet szilrdan az n
vagyok-ra fkuszlva. Akrmilyen lmnyt lsz t
maradj eltklten a tudatban, hogy minden
szlelhet elmlik, s csak az n vagyok marad
fenn.
K: Nem tudom egsz letemet ilyen gyakorlatoknak
szentelni. Ktelessgeim vannak, amelyeket el kell
ltnom.
M: Termszetesen, ktelessgeidet lsd el.
Cselekvs, amelybe nem bonyoldsz bele
rzelmileg, s amely dvs, s nem vlt ki
szenvedst, nem fog megktni. Lehetsz elktelezett
klnbz irnyokban, s dolgozhatsz hatalmas
lendlettel, maradj bensdben, mgis szabad s
nyugodt, tkrszer elmvel, amely mindent
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: Is such a state realisable?
M: I would not talk about it, if it were not. Why
should I engage in fancies?
Q: Everybody quotes scriptures.
M: Those who know only scriptures know nothing.
To know is to be. I know what I am talking about; it is Tudni annyi, mint lenni. n tudom, amirl beszlek;
not from reading, or hearsay.
Q: I am studying Sanskrit under a professor, but
really I am only reading scriptures. I am in search of
self-realisation and I came to get the needed
guidance. Kindly tell me what am I to do?
M: Since you have read the scriptures, why do you
ask me?
Q: The scriptures show the general directions but
the individual needs personal instructions.
M: Your own self is your ultimate teacher (sadguru).
The outer teacher (Guru) is merely a milestone. It is
only your inner teacher, that will walk with you to the
goal, for he is the goal.
Q: The inner teacher is not easily reached.
M: Since he is in you and with you, the difficulty
cannot be serious. Look within, and you will find him. lehet komoly. Nzz befel, s meg fogod tallni t.
Q: When I look within, I find sensations and
perceptions, thoughts and feelings, desires and
fears, memories and expectations. I am immersed in
this cloud and see nothing else.
M: That which sees all this, and the nothing too, is
the inner teacher. He alone is, all else only appears
to be. He is your own self (swarupa), your hope and
assurance of freedom; find him and cling to him and
you will be saved and safe.
Q: I do believe you, but when it comes to the actual
finding of this inner self, I find it escapes me.
M: The idea 'it escapes me', where does it arise?
Q: In the mind.
M: And who knows the mind.
Q: The witness of the mind knows the mind.
51
visszatkrz, anlkl, hogy az hatssal lenne r.
K: Ltezik ilyen megvalsthat llapot?
M: Nem beszlnk rla, ha nem ltezne. Mirt
foglalkoznk kpzeldsekkel?
K: Mindenki idz szentrsokat.
M: Aki csak szentrsokat ismer, semmit nem tud.
ez nem olvasmnylmny, vagy mendemonda.
K: Szanszkrit tanulmnyokat folytatok egy
professzornl, de valjban szentrsokat olvasok
csak. Az nmegvalstst kutatom, s eljttem, hogy
megkapjam a szksges segtsget. Lgy olyan j,
s mondd el, hogy mit kell tennem?
M: Minthogy olvastad a szentrsokat, mirt engem
krdezel?
K: A szentrsok megmutatjk az ltalnos
irnyokat, de az egynnek szemlyes utastsokra
van szksge.
M: Sajt ned a te vgs tantd (sadguru). A kls
tanr (Guru) pusztn csak egy mrfldk. Csak
bels tantd lehet az, aki elksr a clig, mert a
cl.
K: A bels tant nem knnyen elrhet.
M: Mivel benned, s veled van, a nehzsg nem
K: Amikor befel nzek, benyomsokat s
szleleteket, gondolatokat s rzseket, vgyakat
s flelmeket, emlkeket s elvrsokat tallok.
Elmerlk ebben a felhben, s semmi mst nem
ltok.
M: Ami ltja mindezt, s a semmit szintgy, az a
bels tant. Egyedl van, minden ms csak gy
ltszik, mintha lenne. a te sajt magad (swarupa)
vagy, szabadsgod remnye s bizonyossga;
talld meg t, s kapaszkodj bel, s
megmeneklsz, s biztonsgba kerlsz.
K: Elhiszem neked, de amikor ppen megtallnm
ezt a bels nt, gy ltom, elszkik ellem.
M: Hol keletkezik az elszkik ellem gondolata?
K: Az elmben.
M: s ki ismeri az elmt?
K: Az elmnek a tanja ismeri az elmt.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
M: Did anybody come to you and say: 'I am the M: Jtt mr hozzd valaki, azt mondva: n vagyok
witness of your mind'? az elmd tanja?

Q: Of course not. He would have been just another K: Termszetesen nem. csak az elme egy msik
idea in the mind. gondolata lenne.

M: Then who is the witness? M: Akkor ki a tan?

Q: I am. K: n vagyok.

M: So, you know the witness because you are the M: Teht, azrt ismered a tant, mert te vagy a tan.
witness. You need not see the witness in front of Nem kell magad eltt ltnod a tant. Ismtlem, lenni
you. Here again, to be is to know. annyit jelent, hogy tudni.

Q: Yes, I see that I am the witness, the awareness K: Igen, rtem, hogy n vagyok a tan, a tudatossg
itself. But in which way does it profit me? maga. De mi hasznom belle?

M: What a question. What kind of profit do you M: Micsoda krds. Mifle haszonra szmtasz?
expect? To know what you are, is it not good Tudni, hogy mi vagy, nem felel meg?
enough?

Q: What are the uses of self-knowledge? K: Mi haszna az nismeretnek?

M: It helps you to understand what you are not and M: Segt megrtened, hogy mi nem vagy, s
keeps you free from false ideas, desires and actions. megszabadulnod a tves elkpzelsektl, vgyaktl
s cselekedetektl.

Q: If I am the witness only, what do right and wrong K: Ha a tan egyes-egyedl n vagyok, akkor mi
matter? helyes s helytelen?

M: What helps you to know yourself is right. What M: Ami segt, hogy megismerd nmagad, az helyes.
prevents, is wrong. To know one's real self is bliss, Ami gtol ebben, az helytelen. Ismerni a valdi nt
to forget -- is sorrow. boldogsg, elfelejteni szomorsg.

Q: Is the witness-consciousness the real Self? K: A tan-tudatossg a valdi n?

M: It is the reflection of the real in the mind (buddhi). M: A tan-tudatossg a valsg tkrzdse az
The real is beyond. The witness is the door through elmben (buddhi). A valsg ezen tl van. A tan az
which you pass beyond. ajt, amelyen keresztl oda juthatsz.

Q: What is the purpose of meditation? K: Mi a meditci clja?

M: Seeing the false as the false, is meditation. This M: A hamis hamisnak ltsa, a meditci. Ezt kell
must go on all the time. folytatnod szakadatlanul.

Q: We are told to meditate regularly. K: Azt mondjk, rendszeresen kell meditlni.

M: Deliberate daily exercise in discrimination M: Az igaz s a hamis megklnbztetsnek

between the true and the false and renunciation of minden napi, tgondolt gyakorlsa, s a hamis
the false is meditation. There are many kinds of elvetse, a meditci. Sokfle meditcival lehet
meditation to begin with, but they all merge finally kezdeni, de vgl mind egybeolvadnak.
into one.

Q: Please tell me which road to self-realisation is the K: Lgy szves, beszlj nekem arrl, hogy melyik az
shortest. nmegvalstshoz vezet legrvidebb .

M: No way is short or long, but some people are M: Nem az t a rvid vagy hossz, hanem bizonyos
more in earnest and some are less. I can tell you emberek komolyabbak, s msok kevsb azok.
about myself. I was a simple man, but I trusted my Meslhetek sajt magamrl. n egy egyszer ember
Guru. What he told me to do, I did. He told me to voltam, de hittem a Gurumban. Amire krt,

52
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
concentrate on 'I am' -- I did. He told me that I am
beyond all perceivables and conceivables -- I
believed. I gave him my heart and soul, my entire
attention and the whole of my spare time (I had to
work to keep my family alive). As a result of faith and
earnest application, I realised my self (swarupa)
within three years. You may choose any way that
suits you; your earnestness will determine the rate of
progress.
Q: No hint for me?
M: Establish yourself firmly in the awareness of 'I
am'. This is the beginning and also the end of all
endeavour.
17. The Ever-Present
Questioner: The highest powers of the mind are
understanding, intelligence and insight. Man has
three bodies -- the physical, the mental and the
causal (prana, mana, karana). The physical reflects
his being; the mental -- his knowing and the causal -
- his joyous creativity. Of course, these are all forms
in consciousness. But they appear to be separate,
with qualities of their own. Intelligence (buddhi) is
the reflection in the mind of the power to know (chit).
It is what makes the mind knowledgeable. The
brighter the intelligence, the wider, deeper and truer
the knowledge. To know things, to know people and
to know oneself are all functions of intelligence: the
last is the most important and contains the former
two. Misunderstanding oneself and the world leads
to false ideas and desires, which again lead to
bondage. Right understanding of oneself is
necessary for freedom from the bondage of illusion. I
understand all this in theory, but when it comes to
practice, I find that I fail hopelessly in my responses
to situations and people and by my inappropriate
reactions I merely add to my bondage. Life is too
quick for my dull and slow mind. I do understand but
too late, when the old mistakes have been already
repeated.
Maharaj: What then is your problem?
Q: I need a response to life, not only intelligent, but
also very quick. It cannot be quick unless it is
perfectly spontaneous. How can I achieve such
spontaneity?
M: The mirror can do nothing to attract the sun. It
can only keep bright. As soon as the mind is ready,
the sun shines in it.
Q: The light is of the Self, or of the mind?
M: Both. It is uncaused and unvarying by itself and
53
megtettem. Azt mondta, hogy koncentrljak az n
vagyok-ra megtettem. Azt mondta, hogy tl
vagyok minden szlelhetn s elkpzelhetn
elhittem. Neki adtam a szvemet s a lelkemet, teljes
figyelmemet, s minden felesleges idmet
(dolgoznom kellett, hogy fenn tartsam a
csaldomat). A hit s a lelkiismeretes gyakorls
eredmnyekppen nemet (swarupa) hrom ven
bell felismertem.
K: Nincs tmutatsod szmomra?
M: llapodj meg szilrdan az n vagyok
bersgben. Ez a kezdete, egyben a vge is
minden erfesztsnek.
17. A mindig jelenlev
Krdez: Az elme legmagasabb eri a
felfogkpessg, az intelligencia s az intuci. Az
embernek hrom teste van a fizikai, a mentlis, s
a kauzlis (prana, mana, karana). A fizikai tkrzi
ltezst; a mentlis tudst, s a kauzlis
boldog alkotkpessgt. Termszetesen, ezek a
formk mind a tudatossgban vannak. De
klnbzknek tnnek, sajt minsgekkel
rendelkezknek. Az intelligencia (buddhi) a tudat
(chit) erejnek az elmben val tkrzdse. Ez az,
ami az elmt rtelmess teszi. Minl tisztbb az
intelligencia, annl szlesebb, mlyebb s valdibb
a tuds. Ismerni a dolgokat, ismerni az embereket,
s ismerni nmagt ezek mind az intelligencia
funkcii: az utols a legfontosabb, s tartalmazza az
elz kettt. nmagnak s a vilgnak a flrertse
hamis idekhoz s vgyakhoz vezet, amely viszont
ktttsgekhez vezet. Mindezt rtem, elmletileg, de
amikor az alkalmazsra kerl sor, gy tallom, hogy
a szitucikkal s emberekkel kapcsolatos reakciim
remnytelenl hibsak, s a nem helynval
reakciimmal csupn ktelkeimet erstem. Az let
tl gyors az n nehzkes s lass elmmnek. A
felfog kpessgem mkdik, de tl ksn, akkor,
amikor a rgi hibkat mr ismt elkvettem.
Maharaj: Mi a problmd?
K: Az letre trtn reaglsomnak nemcsak
intelligensnek, hanem nagyon gyorsnak is kell
lennie. Csak akkor lehet gyors, ha tkletesen
spontn. Hogyan rhetek el ilyen spontaneitst?
M: A tkr semmit nem tud tenni annak rdekben,
hogy magra irnytsa a napot. Csak azt tudja tenni,
hogy tiszta marad. Amint az elme kszen ll, a nap
felragyog benne.
K: A fny az n, vagy az elme sajtja?
M: Mindkett. A fny nmagtl val, s nmaga
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
coloured by the mind, as it moves and changes. It is
very much like a cinema. The light is not in the film,
but the film colours the light and makes it appear to
move by intercepting it.
Q: Are you now in the perfect state?
M: Perfection is a state of the mind, when it is pure. I
am beyond the mind, whatever its state, pure or
impure. Awareness is my nature; ultimately I am
beyond being and non-being.
Q: Will meditation help me to reach your state?
M: Meditation will help you to find your bonds,
loosen them, untie them and cast your moorings.
When you are no longer attached to anything, you
have done your share. The rest will be done for you.
Q: By whom?
M: By the same power that brought you so far, that
prompted your heart to desire truth and your mind to
seek it. It is the same power that keeps you alive.
You may call it Life or the Supreme.
Q: The same power kills me in due course.
M: Were you not present at your birth? Will you not
be present at your death? Find him who is always
present and your problem of spontaneous and
perfect response will be solved.
Q: realisation of the eternal and an effortless and
adequate response to the ever-changing temporary
event are two different and separate questions. You
seem to roll them into one. What makes you do so?
M: To realise the Eternal is to become the Eternal,
the whole, the universe, with all it contains. Every
event is the effect and the expression of the whole
and is in fundamental harmony with the whole. All
response from the whole must be right, effortless
and instantaneous.
It cannot be otherwise, if it is right. Delayed
response is wrong response. Thought, feeling and
action must be one and simultaneous with the
situation that calls for them.
Q: How does it come?
M: I told you already. Find him who was present at
your birth and will witness your death.
54
ltal nem vltoz, ugyanakkor mozgsban s
vltozsban az elme ltal befolysolt. Nagyon j
hasonlat erre a mozi. A fny nem a filmben van,
hanem a film a fny sznezsvel s eltrtsvel az
teszi azt ltszlag mozgv.
K: Te most a tkletes llapotban vagy?
M: A tkletessg az elme llapota, amikor az tiszta.
n tl vagyok az elmn, brmilyen annak az
llapota, tiszta vagy nem tiszta. A tudatossg a
termszetem; vglegesen tl lptem ltezsen s
nemltezsen.
K: A meditci segt, hogy elrjem az llapotodat?
M: A meditci abban segt, hogy megtalld a
ktelkeidet, meglaztsd azokat, kibontsd azokat, s
levesd a lncaidat. Amikor mr nem ragaszkodsz
tbb semmihez, megcsinltad a rszedet. A tbbi
elvgeztetik szmodra.
K: Ki ltal?
M: Ugyanazon er ltal, amely elhozott tged idig,
amely sugalmazta szvednek az igazsg vgyt, s
elmdnek annak keresst. Ez ugyanaz az er,
amely letben tart. Nevezheted t letnek vagy a
Legfelsbbnek.
K: Ugyanez az er l meg, ha eljn az ideje.
M: Nem voltl jelen a szletsedkor? Nem leszel
jelen a hallodkor? Keresd t, aki mindig jelen van,
s a spontn s tkletes vlaszra vonatkoz
problmd meg fog olddni.
K: Az rkkval realizlsa, s az rkk vltoz,
ml esemnyre adott hatkony, s adekvt vlasz,
kt klnbz, s nll krds. gy ltszik, te
egynek tekinted ket. Mirt?
M: Az rkkval realizlsa azt jelenti, hogy az
rkkvalv vlni, az egssz, az univerzumm,
annak minden tartalmval. Minden esemny az
egsz hatsa s kifejezse, s alapvet
harmniban van az egsszel. Minden vlasz,
amely az egszbl szrmazik, igaz kell, hogy
legyen, erfeszts-mentes s azonnali.
Nem lehet mskppen, ha igazi. A ksleltetett
vlasz rossz vlasz. Gondolkozsnak, rzsnek s
cselekvsnek egynek, s az ket elhv
szitucival egyidejnek kell lennie.
K: Hogy kvetkezik ez be?
M: Mondtam mr. Keresd meg t, aki jelen volt
szletsedkor, s tanja lesz hallodnak.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: My father and mother?
M: Yes, your father-mother, the source from which
you came. To solve a problem you must trace it to
its source. Only in the dissolution of the problem in
the universal solvents of enquiry and dispassion,
can its right solution be found.
18. To Know What you Are, Find What
you Are Not
Questioner: Your way of describing the universe as
consisting of matter, mind and spirit is one of the
many. There are other patterns to which the
universe is expected to conform, and one is at a loss
to know which pattern is true and which is not. One
ends in suspecting that all patterns are only verbal
and that no pattern can contain reality. According to
you, reality consists of three expanses: The expanse
of matter-energy (mahadakash), the expanse of
consciousness (chidakash) and of pure spirit
(paramakash). The first is something that has both
movement and inertia. That we perceive. We also
know that we perceive -- we are conscious and also
aware of being conscious. Thus, we have two:
matter-energy and consciousness. Matter seems to
be in space while energy is always in time, being
connected with change and measured by the rate of
change. Consciousness seems to be somehow here
and now, in a single point of time and space. But
you seem to suggest that consciousness too is
universal -- which makes it timeless, spaceless and
impersonal. I can somehow understand that there is
no contradiction between the timeless and
spaceless and the here and now, but impersonal
consciousness I cannot fathom. To me
consciousness is always focalised, centred,
individualised, a person. You seem to say that there
can be perceiving without a perceiver, knowing
without a knower, loving without a lover, acting
without an actor. I feel that the trinity of knowing,
knower and known can be seen in every movement
of life. Consciousness implies a conscious being, an
object of consciousness and the fact of being
conscious. That which is conscious I call a person. A
person lives in the world, is a part of it, affects it and
is affected by it.
Maharaj: Why don't you enquire how real are the
world and the person?
Q: Oh, no. I need not enquire. Enough if the person
is not less real than the world in which the person
exists.
55
K: Apm s anym?
M: Igen, apd-anyd, a forrs, ahonnan jttl. Egy
problma megoldshoz vissza kell azt kvetned a
forrsig. a helyes megolds A helyes megolds
megtallsa csak a problmnak a kutats s
prtatlansg univerzlis oldszerben val
felolddsa rvn lehetsges.
18. Hogy megtudd ki vagy, fedezd fel, ki
nem vagy
Krdez: Ahogyan az univerzumot lerod, mint
anyagot, elmt s szellemet magban foglal
valamit, egy md a sok kzl. Lteznek ms olyan
mintk is, amelyeknek az univerzum vrhatan
megfelel, s az ember azt sem tudja, melyik minta
helyes, s melyik nem. Az embernek az a gyanja
tmad, hogy minden minta csupn verblis, s hogy
egy minta sem kpes tartalmazni a valsgot.
Szerinted a valsgnak a kvetkez hrom
kiterjedst tartalmazza: az anyag-energia
(mahadakash) kiterjedst, a tudatossg
(chidakash) kiterjedst s a tiszta szellem
(paramakash) kiterjedst. Az els valami olyan,
aminek mozgsa, s tehetetlensge van. szleljk
ket. Azt is tudjuk, hogy szleljk tudatosak
vagyunk, s tudatban vagyunk a ltez tudatnak.
gy kt dologgal rendelkeznk: anyag-energival s
tudatossggal. Az anyagot trben lteznek ltjuk,
mg az energit mindig idben lteznek, olyannak,
ami vltozsokhoz kapcsoldik, s amit a vltozs
gyakorisgval mrnk. A tudatossg valami mdon
itt s most, az idnek s trnek egyetlen pontjban
lteznek ltszik. De te azt ltszol szuggerlni, hogy
a tudatossg szintn univerzlis vagyis idtlen,
hatrtalan s szemlytelen. Azt valahogy mg kpes
vagyok megrteni, hogy nincs ellentmonds az
idtlen s hatrtalan, valamint az itt s most kztt,
de a szemlytelen tudatossg rtelmnek nem
tudok a mlyre hatolni. Szmomra a tudatossg
mindig koncentrlt, kzpontostott, egyedi egy
szemly. gy tnik, azt mondod, hogy lehetsges
szlels szlel nlkl, tuds tud nlkl, szeretet
szeret nlkl, cselekvs cselekv nlkl. gy
rzem, hogy a tuds,a tud s a tudott hromsga
az let minden pillanatban megfigyelhet. A
tudatossg magban foglalja a tudatos ltezt, a
tudatossg objektumt, s a tudatosnak levs
tnyt. Azt, ami tudatos, nevezem n szemlynek. A
szemly a vilgban l, rsze annak, hat r, s
elszenvedi annak hatst.
Maharaj: Mirt nem vizsglod, hogy mi mdon
valdi a vilg s a szemly?
K: Oh, nem. Nem kell vizsglnom. Elegend, hogy a
szemly nem kevsb valdi, mint a vilg, amelyben
a szemly l.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
M: Then what is the question? M: Akkor mi a krds?

Q: Are persons real, and universals conceptual, or K: A szemlyek valdiak s az univerzlis

are universals real and persons imaginary? konceptulis, vagy pedig az univerzlis valdi, s a
szemlyek elkpzeltek?

M: Neither are real. M: Egyik sem valdi.

Q: Surely, I am real enough to merit your reply and I K: n bizonyra elg valdi vagyok, hogy
am a person. kirdemeljem a vlaszodat, s n egy szemly
vagyok.

M: Not when asleep. M: Mikzben alszol, nem vagy az.

Q: Submergence is not absence. Even though K: Az almerls nem hiny. Mg alvs kzben is
asleep, I am. vagyok.

M: To be a person you must be self-conscious. Are M: Hogy szemly lehess, ntudatosnak kell lenned.
you so always? llandan az vagy?

Q: Not when I sleep, of course, nor when I am in a K: Amikor alszom, termszetesen nem, jult, vagy
swoon, or drugged. kbult llapotban sem.

M: During your waking hours are you continually M: brenlti ridban folyamatosan ntudatos
self-conscious? vagy?

Q: No, Sometimes I am absent-minded, or just K: Nem, nha figyelmetlen vagyok, vagy csak
absorbed. elmerlt.

M: Are you a person during the gaps in self- M: Szemly vagy-e az ntudat hzagaiban?
consciousness?

Q: Of course I am the same person throughout. I K: Termszetesen, ugyanaz a szemly vagyok

remember myself as I was yesterday and yester mindvgig. Emlkszem magamra, mi voltam tegnap,
year -- definitely, I am the same person. s mlt vben hatrozottan ugyanaz a szemly
vagyok.

M: So, to be a person, you need memory? M: Teht, ahhoz, hogy szemly legyl, emlkezetre
van szksged?

Q: Of course. K: Termszetesen.

M: And without memory, what are you? M: s emlkezet nlkl, mi vagy?

Q: Incomplete memory entails incomplete K: A tkletlen memria tkletlen szemlyisggel

personality. Without memory I cannot exist as a jr egytt. Emlkezet nlkl nem ltezhetek
person. szemlyknt.

M: Surely you can exist without memory. You do so M: Minden ktsgen fell tudsz ltezni emlkezet
-- in sleep. nlkl. Ezt teszed alvsban.

Q: Only in the sense of remaining alive. Not as a K: Csak abban rtelemben, hogy letben maradok.
person. Nem a szemlyben.

M: Since you admit that as a person you have only M: Miutn elismerted, hogy szemlyknt csak
intermittent existence, can you tell me what are you idszakosan ltezel, meg tudnd-e mondani nekem,
in the intervals in between experiencing yourself as hogy mi vagy az nmagadat szemlyknt val
a person? tapasztalsod kztes intervallumaiban?

Q: I am, but not as a person. Since I am not K: Akkor is vagyok, de nem szemlyknt. Mivel nem

56
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
conscious of myself in the intervals, I can only say vagyok tudatban nmagamnak ezekben az
that I exist, but not as a person. intervallumokban, csak annyit mondhatok, hogy
ltezem, de nem szemlyknt.

M: Shall we call it impersonal existence M: Nevezhetjk ezt szemlytelen ltezsnek?

Q: I would call it rather unconscious existence; I am, K: Inkbb neveznm tudattalan ltezsnek; vagyok,
but I do not know that I am. de nem tudom, hogy vagyok.

M: You have said just now: 'I am, but I do not know M: pp az imnt mondtad: Vagyok, de nem tudom,
that I am'. Could you possibly say it about your being hogy vagyok. Tudnd ezt a tudattalan llapotodban
in an unconscious state? mondani, esetleg?

Q: No, I could not. K: Nem, nem tudnm.

M: You can only describe it in the past tense: 'I did M: Csak mlt idben tudsz rla beszlni: Nem
not know. I was unconscious', in the sense of not tudtam. Tudattalan voltam, abban az rtelemben,
remembering. hogy nem emlkszel.

Q: Having been unconscious, how could I remember K: A tudattalan llapotombl hogyan tudnk
and what? emlkezni, s mire?

M: Were you really unconscious, or you just do not M: Valban tudattalan voltl, vagy csak nem
remember? emlkszel?

Q: How am I to make out? K: Honnan tudhatnm n azt?

M: Consider. Do you remember every second of M: Gondold t. Emlkszel a tegnapi nap minden
yesterday? msodpercre?

Q: Of course, not. K: Termszetesen nem.

M: Were you then unconscious? M: Akkor teht tudattalan voltl?

Q: Of course, not. K: Termszetesen nem.

M: So, you are conscious and yet you do not M: Teht, tudatos vagy, s mgsem emlkszel?
remember?

Q: Yes. K: Igen.

M: Maybe you were conscious in sleep and just do M: Lehet, hogy tudatos voltl alvs kzben, csak
not remember. nem emlkszel.

Q: No, I was not conscious. I was asleep. I did not K: Nem, nem voltam tudatos. Aludtam. Nem gy
behave like a conscious person. viselkedtem, mint egy tudatos szemly.

M: Again, how do you know? M: Megismtlem a krdst, honnan tudod?

Q: I was told so by those who saw me asleep. K: Azoktl, akik lttak aludni.

M: All they can testify to is that they saw you lying
quietly with closed eyes and breathing regularly.
They could not make out whether you were
conscious or not. Your only proof is your own
memory. A very uncertain proof it is.
M: k csak annak lehettek tani, hogy lttak tged
nyugodtan, csukott szemekkel fekdni, s
szablyosan llegezni. Nem tudhattk, hogy tudatos
voltl-e vagy sem. Egyetlen bizonytkod a sajt
emlkezeted. Ez nagyon ktsges bizonytk.

Q: Yes, I admit that on my own terms I am a person K: Igen, beltom, hogy sajt terminolgim szerint
only during my waking hours. What I am in between, csak brenlti rim sorn vagyok szemly. Hogy
I do not know. kzben mi vagyok, azt nem tudom.

57
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok

M: At least you know that you do not know. Since
you pretend not to be conscious in the intervals
between the waking hours, leave the intervals alone.
Let us consider the waking hours only.
M: Legalbbis tudod, hogy nem tudod. Mivel
elfogadod, hogy az brenlti rk kztti
intervallumokban nem vagy tudatos, ezekkel az
idszakokkal ne foglalkozzunk. Foglalkozzunk
csupn az brenlt rival.

Q: I am the same person in my dreams. K: lmaimban ugyanaz a szemly vagyok.

M: Agreed. Let us consider them together waking
and dreaming. The difference is merely in continuity.
Were your dreams consistently continuous, bringing
back night after night the same surroundings and the
same people, you would be at a loss to know which
is the waking and which is the dream.
Henceforward, when we talk of the waking state, we
shall include the dream state too.
M: Megegyeztnk. Vegyk egytt fontolra az
brenlt s az lom llapott. A klnbsg merben
folytonossgbeli. Ha az lmaid kvetkezetes mdon
folytonosak lennnek, jjelrl jjelre visszatrnnek,
ugyanazon krnyezettel s emberekkel, aligha
tudnd, hogy melyik az brenlt s melyik az lom
llapota. Mostantl, amikor az brenlt llapotrl
beszlnk, rtsk bele az llom llapott is.

Q: Agreed. I am a person in a conscious relation K: Megegyeztnk. n a vilggal folyamatos

with a world. kapcsolatban lv szemly vagyok.

M: Are the world and the conscious relation with it M: A vilg s a vele val folyamatos kapcsolat
essential to your being a person? elengedhetetlen ahhoz, hogy szemly legyl?

Q: Even immersed in a cave, I remain a person. K: Amikor almerlk egy barlangba, akkor is
szemly maradok.

M: It implies a body and a cave. And a world in M: Ez egy testet s egy barlangot jelent. s egy
which they can exist. vilgot, amelyekben azok ltezhetnek.

Q: Yes. I can see. The world and the consciousness K: Igen. rtem. A vilg s a vilg tudatossga
of the world are essential to my existence as a elengedhetetlenek ahhoz, hogy szemlyknt
person. ltezzek.

M: This makes the person a part and parcel of the M: Ez teszi a szemlyt a vilg szerves
world, or vice versa. The two are one. alkotrszv, illetve viszont. A kett egy.

Q: Consciousness stands alone. The person and the K: A tudatossg egyedl ll. A szemly s a vilg
world appear in consciousness. tudatossgban jelenik meg.

M: You said: appear. Could you add: disappear? M: Azt mondtad: megjelenik. Hozztehetnd, hogy:
eltnik?

Q: No, I cannot. I can only be aware of my and my
world's appearance. As a person, I cannot say: 'the
world is not'. Without a world I would not be there to
say it. Because there is a world, I am there to say:
'there is a world'.
K: Nem, nem tehetnm. n csak magamnak, s a
vilgom megjelensnek vagyok tudatban.
Szemlyknt nem mondhatom, hogy: a vilg nem
ltezik. A vilg nlkl nem lehetnk itt, hogy ezt
elmondjam. A vilg ltezse miatt vagyok itt, hogy
azt mondjam: a vilg ltezik.

M: Maybe it is the other way round. Because of you, M: Lehet, hogy fordtva van. Mert te vagy, azrt
there is a world. ltezik a vilg.

Q: To me such statement appears meaningless. K: Szmomra ez a kijelents rtelmetlen.

M: Its meaninglessness may disappear on M: rtelmetlensge kutatssal szntethet meg.

investigation.

Q: Where do we begin? K: Hol kezdjk?

58
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
M: All I know is that whatever depends, is not real.
The real is truly independent. Since the existence of
the person depends on the existence of the world
and it is circumscribed and defined by the world, it
cannot be real.
Q: It cannot be a dream, surely.
M: Even a dream has existence, when it is cognised
and enjoyed, or endured. Whatever you think and
feel has being. But it may not be what you take it to
be. What you think to be a person may be
something quite different.
Q: I am what I know myself to be.
M: You cannot possibly say that you are what you
think yourself to be. Your ideas about yourself
change from day to day and from moment to
moment. Your self-image is the most changeful thing
you have. It is utterly vulnerable, at the mercy of a
passer by. A bereavement, the loss of a job, an
insult, and your image of yourself, which you call
your person, changes deeply. To know what you are
you must first investigate and know what you are
not. And to know what you are not you must watch
yourself carefully, rejecting all that does not
necessarily go with the basic fact: 'I am'. The ideas: I
am born at a given place, at a given time, from my
parents and now I am so-and-so, living at, married
to, father of, employed by, and so on, are not
inherent in the sense 'I am'. Our usual attitude is of 'I
am this'. Separate consistently and perseveringly the
'I am' from 'this' or 'that', and try to feel what it means
to be, just to be, without being 'this' or 'that'. All our
habits go against it and the task of fighting them is
long and hard sometimes, but clear understanding
helps a lot. The clearer you understand that on the
level of the mind you can be described in negative
terms only, the quicker you will come to the end of
your search and realise your limitless being.
19. Reality lies in Objectivity
Questioner: I am a painter and I earn by painting
pictures. Has it any value from the spiritual point of
view?
Maharaj: When you paint what do you think about?
Q: When I paint, there is only the painting and
myself.
M: What are you doing there?
59
M: Biztosan tudom, hogy ami fgg, az nem
valsgos. A valdi nem fgg semmitl. Mivel a
szemly ltezse a vilg ltezstl fgg, s a vilg
ltal krlhatrolt s meghatrozott, a szemly nem
lehet valdi.
K: lom biztosan nem lehet.
M: Mg az lom is ltezssel br, amikor tudsz rla,
lvezed, vagy tled. Brmit gondolsz s rzel, az
ltezik. De az, amit lteznek felttelezel, nem
ltezhet. Amit szemlynek gondolsz, az valami
egsz ms lehet.
K: n az vagyok, aminek tudom magam.
M: Nem valszn, hogy mondhatsz olyat, hogy az
vagy, aminek gondolod magad. A magadrl alkotott
elkpzelseid naprl napra, pillanatrl pillanatra
vltoznak. Az nkped a legvltozkonyabb
tulajdonod. A legteljesebb mrtkig sebezhet,
kiszolgltatva minden jttment knye-kedvnek.
Halleset a csaldban, a munkahely elvesztse, egy
inzultus, s az nmagadrl alkotott kp, amelyet a
szemlyisgednek nevezel, mlyen megvltozik.
Ahhoz, hogy megtudd mi vagy, elbb fel kell
fedezned, hogy mi nem vagy. s, hogy megtudd mi
nem vagy, elbb gondosan figyelned kell magad,
visszautastva mindent, ami nem jr szksgszeren
egytt azzal az alapvet tnnyel, hogy: n vagyok.
Az ilyen gondolatok, hogy adott helyen szlettem,
adott idben, a szleimtl, most ez meg ez vagyok,
itt meg itt lek, hzas vagyok, apa vagyok,
alkalmazott vagyok, stb., nem velejri az n
vagyok-nak. Az n ez vagyok szokss vlt
attitdnk. Kvetkezetesen s kitartan klntsd el
az n vagyok-ot az ez vagy az-tl, s prbld
rezni, mit jelent lenni, csak lenni, anlkl, hogy ez
vagy az lennl. Minden szoksunk ez ellen szl, s
a velk val megharcols feladata hossz, s
idnknt nehz, de a tiszta megrts sokat segt.
Minl tisztbban megrted, hogy az elme szintjn
csak negatv kifejezsekkel rhatod le magad, annl
gyorsabban rsz a keress vgre s ismered fel,
hogy lnyed korltok nlkli.
19. A valsg elfogulatlansgot jelent
Krdez: Fest vagyok, a festszet a kenyerem. Br
ez valamilyen rtkkel spiritulis nzpontbl?
Maharaj: Amikor festesz, mire gondolsz?
K: Amikor festek, csak a fests van s nmagam.
M: Te mit csinlsz ott?
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: I paint.
M: No, you don't. You see the painting going on.
You are watching only, all else happens.
Q: The picture is painting itself? Or, is there some
deeper 'me', or some god who is painting?
M: Consciousness itself is the greatest painter. The
entire world is a Picture.
Q: Who painted the picture of the world?
M: The painter is in the Picture.
Q: The picture is in the mind of the painter and the
painter is in the picture, which is in the mind of the
painter who is in the picture. Is not this infinity of
states and dimensions absurd? The moment we talk
of picture in the mind, which itself is in the picture,
we come to an endless succession of witnesses, the
higher witness witnessing the lower. It is like
standing between two mirrors and wondering at the
crowd.
M: Quite right, you alone and the double mirror are
there. Between the two, your forms and names are
numberless.
Q: How do you look at the world?
M: I see a painter painting a picture. The picture I
call the world, the painter I call God. I am neither. I
do not create, nor am I created. I contain all, nothing
contains me.
Q: When I see a tree, a face, a sunset, the picture is
perfect. When I close my eyes, the image in my
mind is faint and hazy. If it is my mind that projects
the picture, why need I open my eyes to see a lovely
flower and with eyes closed I see it vaguely?
M: It is because your outer eyes are better than your
inner eyes. Your mind is all turned outward. As you
learn to watch your mental world, you will find it even
more colourful and perfect than what the body can
provide. Of course, you will need some training. But
why argue? You imagine that the picture must come
from the painter who actually painted it. All the time
you look for origins and causes. Causality is in the
mind, only; memory gives the illusion of continuity
and repetitiveness creates the idea of causality.
When things repeatedly happen together, we tend to
see a causal link between them. It creates a mental
habit, but a habit is not a necessity.
60
K: Festek.
M: Nem, nem azt csinlod. Nzed a kpet, ahogy
kszl. Te csak figyelsz, minden ms trtnik.
K: A kp festi nmagt? Vagy van egy mlyebb n,
vagy valamifle isten, aki fest?
M: A tudatossg maga a legnagyobb fest. Az
egsz vilg egy Festmny.
K: Ki festette a vilgfestmnyt?
M: A fest benne van a Festmnyben.
K: A kp a fest elmjben van, s a fest abban a
kpben van, amely a fest elmjben van, aki a
kpben van. Nem abszurd az llapotoknak s
dimenziknak ez a vgtelensge? Abban a
pillanatban, hogy az elmben lv kprl beszlnk,
amely elme nmaga a kpben van, a tank vgtelen
sorozathoz jutunk, a magasabb tan az
alacsonyabbnak a tanja. Ez olyan, mint kt tkr
kztt llni, s a tmeget csodlni.
M: Tkletesen igaz, egyedl te vagy, s egy ketts
tkr. A kett kztt van tmntelen formd s
neved.
K: Hogyan szemlled a vilgot?
M: Ltok egy festt, amint egy kpet fest. A kpet
vilgnak nevezem, a festt Istennek. n egyik sem
vagyok. n nem teremtek, s teremtett sem vagyok.
n tartalmazok mindent, semmi nem engem
tartalmaz.
K: Amikor egy ft, egy arcot, egy naplementt ltok,
a kp tkletes. Amikor becsukom a szemem, az
elmmben lv kp elhalvnyodik, s elmosdott
vlik. Ha az elmm az, ami a kpet kivetti, mirt kell
kinyitnom a szemem, hogy megnzzek egy szp
virgot, s csukott szemmel mirt ltok
homlyosan?
M: Azrt, mert a kls szemeid jobbak, mint a
belsk. Elmd teljesen kifel fordul. Amint
megtanulod, hogyan ksrd figyelemmel mentlis
vilgodat, sokkal sznesebbnek s tkletesebbnek
fogod tallni azt, mint amilyennel a test szolglni tud.
Termszetesen, szksg van bizonyos gyakorlsra.
De minek vitatkozunk? Azt kpzeled, hogy a kpnek
attl a festtl kell szrmaznia, aki ppen festi.
Szakadatlanul kezdeteket s okokat keresel.
Kauzalits csak az elmben ltezik; a folytonossg
illzija az emlkezet miatt van, s a kauzalits
idejt az ismtlds teremti. Amikor a dolgok
ismtelten egytt trtnnek, hajlamosak vagyunk r,
hogy oksgi kapcsolatot lssunk kzttk. Ez egy
mentlis hoz ltre, de a szoks nem
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: You have just said that the world is made by
God.
M: Remember that language is an instrument of the
mind; It is made by the mind, for the mind. Once you
admit a cause, then God is the ultimate cause and
the world the effect. They are different, but not
separate.
Q: People talk of seeing God.
M: When you see the world you see God. There is
no seeing God, apart from the world. Beyond the
world to see God is to be God. The light by which
you see the world, which is God is the tiny little
spark: 'I am', apparently so small, yet the first and
the last in every act of knowing and loving.
Q: Must I see the world to see God?
M: How else? No world, no God.
Q: What remains?
M: You remain as pure being.
Q: And what becomes of the world and of God?
M: Pure being (avyakta).
Q: Is it the same as the Great Expanse
(paramakash)?
M: You may call it so. Words do not matter, for they
do not reach it. They turn back in utter negation.
Q: How can I see the world as God? What does it
mean to see the world as God?
M: It is like entering a dark room. You see nothing --
you may touch, but you do not see -- no colours, no
outlines. The window opens and the room is flooded
with light. Colours and shapes come into being. The
window is the giver of light, but not the source of it.
The sun is the source. Similarly, matter is like the
dark room; consciousness -- the window -- flooding
matter with sensations and perceptions, and the
Supreme is the sun the source both of matter and of
light. The window may be closed, or open, the sun
shines all the time. It makes all the difference to the
room, but none to the sun. Yet all this is secondary
to the tiny little thing which is the 'I am'. Without the 'I
am' there is nothing. All knowledge is about the 'I
am'. False ideas about this 'I am' lead to bondage,
right knowledge leads to freedom and happiness.
61
szksgszersg.
K: pp az imnt mondtad, hogy a vilgot Isten
teremtette.
M: Ne felejtsd el, hogy a nyelv az elme eszkze; az
elme ksztette, az elme szmra. Egyszer
elfogadsz egy okot, aztn Isten a vgs ok, s a
vilg a hats. Ezek klnbz, de nem klnll
dolgok.
K: Az emberek lthat Istenrl beszlnek.
M: Amikor a vilgot ltod, Istent ltod. Nem lthat a
vilgtl klnll Isten. A vilg felett ltni Istent
annyi, mint Istennek lenni. A fny, ami ltal a vilgot,
azaz Isten ltod, aprcska kis szikra: a vagyok,
amely nyilvnval, hogy nagyon kicsi, mgis az els
s az utols, a tuds s szeretet minden aktusban.
K: Kell ahhoz a vilgot ltnom, hogy lssam Istent?
M: Hogyan msknt? Ha nincs vilg, nincs Isten.
K: Akkor mi marad?
M: Te maradsz, tiszta ltezsknt.
K: s miv vlik a vilg s Isten?
M: Tiszta ltezss (avyakta).
K: Ez ugyanaz, mint a Nagy Tr (paramakash?
M: Nevezheted gy is. A szavak nem szmtanak,
mert nem rik el azt. Visszatrnek, a legteljesebb
tagadssal.
K: Hogyan lthatom Istenknt a vilgot? Mit jelent a
vilgot Istenknt ltni?
M: Ez olyan, mint egy stt szobba lpni. Nem
ltsz semmit tapogatzol, de semmit se ltsz se
szneket, se krvonalakat. Kinylik az ablak, s a
szobt elrasztja a fny. Sznek s formk
szletnek. Az ablak adja a fnyt, de nem forrsa
neki. A nap a forrs. A problma ehhez a stt
szobhoz hasonlt; a tudatossg az ablak
rasztja el benyomsokkal s rzkletekkel az
anyagot, s a Legfelsbb a nap, amely mind az
anyagnak, mind a fnynek a forrsa. Az ablak lehet
zrva vagy nyitva, a nap mindig st. Klnbsgeket
ez csak a szobra nzve jelent, de a nap szmra
semmiflt. De mindez mellkes egy olyan aprcska
dologhoz kpest, mint az n vagyok. Az n vagyok'
nlkl semmi nincs. Minden tuds az n vagyok-rl
szl. Az n vagyok-kal kapcsolatos hamis idek
ktttsghez vezetnek, a helyes tuds
szabadsghoz s boldogsghoz.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: Is 'I am' and 'there is' the same?
M: 'I am' denotes the inner, 'there is' -- the outer.
Both are based on the sense of being.
Q: Is it the same as the experience of existence?
M: To exist means to be something, a thing, a
feeling, a thought, an idea. All existence is particular.
Only being is universal, in the sense that every
being is compatible with every other being.
Existences clash, being -- never. Existence means
becoming, change, birth and death and birth again,
while in being there is silent peace.
Q: If I create the world, why have I made it bad?
M: Everyone lives in his own world. Not all the
worlds are equally good or bad.
Q: What determines the difference?
M: The mind that projects the world, colours it its
own way. When you meet a man, he is a stranger.
When you marry him, he becomes your own self.
When you quarrel, he becomes your enemy. It is
your mind's attitude that determines what he is to
you.
Q: I can see that my world is subjective. Does it
make it also illusory?
M: It is illusory as long as it is subjective and to that
extent only. Reality lies in objectivity.
Q: What does objectivity mean? You said the world
is subjective and now you talk of objectivity. Is not
everything subjective?
M: Everything is subjective, but the real is objective.
Q: In what sense?
M: It does not depend on memories and
expectations, desires and fears, likes and dislikes.
All is seen as it is.
Q: Is it what you call the fourth state (turiya)?
M: Call it as you like. It is solid, steady, changeless,
beginningless and endless, ever new, ever fresh.
Q: How is it reached?
62
K: A vagyok s a van azonosak?
M: A vagyok a belsre mutat, a van a klsre.
Mindkettnek az alapja a lt rzete.
K: Ez ugyanaz, mint a ltezs tapasztalata?
M: Ltezni annyit jelent, mint lenni valaminek, egy
dolognak, egy rzsnek, egy gondolatnak, egy
idenak. Minden ltezs egyedi. Csak a lt
univerzlis, abban az rtelemben, hogy minden lt
minden ms lttel kompatibilis. A ltezsek eltrek,
a lt soha. A ltezs valamiv vlst, szletst s
meghalst, s ismt szletst jelent, mg a lt
csendes bkt.
K: Ha n vagyok a vilg teremtje, mirt
teremtettem azt rossznak?
M: Mindenki a sajt vilgban l. Nem minden vilg
egyformn j vagy rossz.
K: Mi hatrozza meg a klnbsget?
M: Az elme az, ami a vilgot kivetti, s kisznezi a
maga mdjn. Amg nem tallkoztl valakivel, addig
az idegen szmodra. Amikor sszehzasodtok,
nmagadd vlik. Amikor veszekedtek,
ellensgedd vlik. Az elmd hatrozza meg, hogy
mit jelent szmodra.
K: Tudom, hogy a vilg szubjektv. Megtveszt is
egyben?
M: Addig megtveszt, amg szubjektv, s csak
ugyanazon mrtkben. A valsg elfogulatlansgot
jelent.
K: Mit jelent az elfogulatlansg? Azt mondtad, a
vilg szubjektv, s most elfogulatlansgrl
beszlsz. Nem minden szubjektv?
M: Minden szubjektv, de a valsg objektv.
K: Milyen rtelemben?
M: Nem fgg emlkektl s elvrsoktl, vgyaktl
s flelmektl, tetszstl s nemtetszstl.
K: Ez az, amit negyedik llapotnak (turiya) nevezel?
M: Nevezd, ahogy tetszik. Az megbonthatatlan,
egyntet, megvltozhatatlan, kezedet s vg
nlkli, rkk j, rkk friss.
K: Hogyan rhet el?
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
M: Desirelessness and fearlessness will take you M: Vgy nlklisg s flelem nlklisg juttatnak el
there. oda.

20. The Supreme is Beyond All 20. A Legfelsbb mindenek felett ll

Questioner: You say, reality is one. Oneness, unity, Krdez: Azt mondod, hogy a valsg egy. Az
is the attribute of the person. Is then reality a person, egyetlensg, az egysg, a szemlyt jellemz
with the universe as its body? attribtumok. Eszerint a valsg egy szemly,
amelynek a teste az univerzum?

Maharaj: Whatever you may say will be both true Maharaj: Brmi, amit mondasz, egyarnt igaz s
and false. Words do not reach beyond the mind. hamis. A szavak nem rnek tl az elmn.

Q: I am just trying to understand. You are telling us
of the Person, the Self and the Supreme. (vyakti,
vyakta, avyakta). The light of Pure Awareness
(pragna), focussed as 'I am' in the Self (jivatma), as
consciousness (chetana) illumines the mind
(antahkarana) and as life (prana) vitalises the body
(deha). All this is fine as far as the words go. But
when it comes to distinguishing in myself the person
from the Self and the Self from the Supreme, I get
mixed up.
K: n csak megprblom megrteni. A Szemlyrl,
az nrl s a Legfelsbbrl (vyakti, vyakta, avyakta)
beszlsz. A Tiszta Tudatossg (pragna) fnye az
nben (jivatma) koncentrldik,n vagyok-knt,
megvilgtja az elmt (antahkarana), tudatossgknt
(chetana), s vitalizlja a testet (deha), letknt
(prana). Mindez rendben van, amg beszlnk rla.
De amikor kln vlik nmagamban a szemly az
ntl, s az n a Legfelsbbtl, sszezavarodom.

M: The person is never the subject. You can see a
person, but you are not the person. You are always
the Supreme which appears at a given point of time
and space as the witness, a bridge between the
pure awareness of the Supreme and the manifold
consciousness of the person.
M: A szemly soha nem a szubjektum. Lthatsz
szemlyt, de te nem a szemly vagy. Te mindig a
Legfelsbb vagy, amely adott idpontban s helyen
mint a tan jelenik meg, mint a Legfelsbb tiszta
Tudatossga s a szemly sokfle tudatossga
kztti hd.

Q: When I look at myself, I find I am several persons K: Amikor nmagamra nzek, tbb klnbz
fighting among themselves for the use of the body. szemlyknt ltom magam, akik egymssal
harcolnak a test hasznlatrt.

M: They correspond to the various tendencies M: Azok az elme klnfle tendenciinak

(samskara) of the mind. (samskara) felelnek meg.

Q: Can I make peace between them? K: Teremthetek-e kzttk bkt?

M: How can you? They are so contradictory. See M: Hogyan tudnl? Elgg ellentmondsban vannak
them as they are -- mere habits of thoughts and egymssal. Lsd ket annak, amik gondolatok s
feelings, bundles of memories and urges. rzsek puszta megjelensi formjnak, emlkek s
ksztetsek csomagjainak.

Q: Yet they all say 'I am'. K: De mind azt mondjk, hogy n vagyok.

M: It is only because you identify yourself with them.
Once you realise that whatever appears before you
cannot be yourself, and cannot say 'I am', you are
free of all your 'persons' and their demands. The
sense 'I am' is your own. You cannot part with it, but
you can impart it to anything, as in saying: I am
young, I am rich etc. But such self-identifications are
patently false and the cause of bondage.
M: Ez csak azrt lehetsges, mert azonostod
magad velk. Amint felismered, hogy brmi jelenik
meg eltted, az nem lehet veled azonos, s nem
mondhatod r azt, hogy n vagyok, szabadd vlsz
sszes szemlyeidtl s azok ignyeitl. Az n
vagyok rzete a sajtod. Nem vlhatsz meg tle, de
tulajdonthatsz neki brmit, mondvn, hogy: fiatal
vagyok, gazdag vagyok, stb. De az ilyen
nazonosulsok nyilvnvalan hamisak, s
ktttsghez vezetnek.

Q: I can now understand that I am not the person, K: Most mr rtem, hogy n nem a szemly vagyok,
but that which, when reflected in the person, gives it hanem az, ami a szemlyknt val tkrzdsekor

63
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
a sense of being. Now, about the Supreme? In what
way do I know myself as the Supreme?
M: The source of consciousness cannot be an
object in consciousness. To know the source is to be
the source. When you realise that you are not the
person, but the pure and calm witness, and that
fearless awareness is your very being, you are the
being. It is the source, the Inexhaustible Possibility.
Q: Are there many sources or one for all?
M: It depends how you look at it, from which end.
The objects in the world are many, but the eye that
sees them is one. The higher always appears as
one to the lower and the lower as many to the
higher.
Q: Shapes and names are all of one and the same
God?
M: Again, it all depends on how you look at it. On
the verbal level everything is relative. Absolutes
should be experienced, not discussed.
Q: How is the Absolute experienced?
M: It is not an object to be recognised and stored up
in memory. It is in the present and in feeling rather. It
has more to do with the 'how' than with the 'what'. It
is in the quality, in the value; being the source of
everything, it is in everything.
Q: If it is the source, why and how does it manifest
itself?
M: It gives birth to consciousness. All else is in
consciousness.
Q: Why are there so many centres of
consciousness?
M: The objective universe (mahadakash) is in
constant movement, projecting and dissolving
innumerable forms. Whenever a form is infused with
life (prana), consciousness (chetana) appears by
reflection of awareness in matter.
Q: How is the Supreme affected?
M: What can affect it and how? The source is not
affected by the vagaries of the river nor is the metal - foly szeszlyei, sem az anyagt az kszernek a
- by the shape of the jewellery. Is the light affected
by the picture on the screen? The Supreme makes
everything possible, that is all.
Q: How is it that some things do happen and some
64
annak a lt rzett adja. Rtrhetnk most a
Legfelsbbre? Milyen mdon ismerhetem magam a
Legfelsbbknt?
M: A tudatossg forrsa nem lehet trgya a
tudatossgnak. A forrst ismerni annyi, mint a
forrsnak lenni. Amikor felismered, hogy nem a
szemly vagy, hanem a tiszta s csendes tan, s
ez a rettenthetetlen Tudatossg a te valdi lted,
hogy te magad vagy a lt. Ez a forrs, a
Kiapadhatatlan Lehetsg.
K: Sok forrs van, vagy egy forrsa van mindennek?
M: Attl fgg, hogyan nzed, milyen cllal. A
vilgban sok az objektum, de a szem, amely nzi
ket, az egy. A magasabb mindig egyknt jelenik
meg az alsbbnak, s az alsbb sokknt a
felsbbnek.
K: A formk s nevek mind egy s ugyanazon
Isteni?
M: Ismtlem, attl fgg, hogyan nzed. Verblis
szinten minden relatv. Abszoltumokat tapasztalni
kell, nem megvitatni.
K: Hogyan tapasztalhat az Abszolt?
M: Az nem egy felismerhet, s az emlkezetben
eltrolhat objektum. A jelenben van, s leginkbb
az rzsben. Inkbb a hogyan szval krdezhet,
mint a mi-vel. A minsgben van, az rtkben;
lvn forrsa mindennek, benne van mindenben.
K: Ha az a forrs, mirt s hogyan nyilvntja meg
magt?
M: Vilgra hozza a tudatossgot. Minden ms a
tudatossgban van.
K: Mirt van olyan sok kzpontja a tudatossgnak?
M: Az objektv univerzum (mahadakash) lland
mozgsban van, megszmllhatatlan formban
kivetl, s szertefoszlik. Akrmikor egy formba let
(prana) kltzik, tudatossg (chetana) jelenik meg, a
Tudatossgnak az anyagban val tkrzdse
rvn.
K: Hogyan rinthet meg a Legfelsbb?
M: Mi rinthetn, s hogyan? A forrst nem rintik a
formja. rinti-e a kp a vettvsznat? A
Legfelsbb tesz mindent lehetv, ez minden.
K: Hogy van az, hogy bizonyos dolgok
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
don't? megtrtnnek, bizonyosak pedig nem.

M: Seeking out causes is a pastime of the mind. M: Az okok nyomozsa az elme idtltse. Nem
There is no duality of cause and effect. Everything is ltezik ok s hats kettssge. Mindennek megvan
its own cause. a sajt oka.

Q: No purposeful action is then possible? K: Akkor ht nem lehetsges a szndkos

cselekvs?

M: All I say is that consciousness contains all. In
consciousness all is possible. You can have causes
if you want them, in your world. Another may be
content with a single cause -- God's will. The root
cause is one: the sense 'I am'.
M: Csak azt mondhatom, hogy a tudatossg foglal
magban mindent. A tudatossgban minden
lehetsges. Lehetnek okaid, ha gy akarod, a te
vilgodban. Egy msik tartalmazhat egyetlen okot
Isten akaratt. Az eredend ok egy: az n vagyok
rzete.

Q: What is the link between the Self (Vyakta) and K: Mi a kapcsolat az n (Vyakta) s a Legfelsbb
the Supreme (Avyakta)? (Avyakta) kztt?

M: From the self's point of view the world is the
known, the Supreme -- the Unknown. The Unknown
gives birth to the known, yet remains Unknown. The
known is infinite, but the Unknown is an infinitude of
infinities. Just like a ray of light is never seen unless
intercepted by the specs of dust, so does the
Supreme make everything known, itself remaining
unknown.
M: Az n nzpontjbl a vilg az ismert, a
Legfelsbb az Ismeretlen. Az Ismeretlen hozza
vilgra az ismertet, mgis Ismeretlen marad. Az
ismert vgtelen, de az Ismeretlen a vgtelen
vgtelensg. Mint ahogy a fnysugr sem ltszik
sosem, hacsak nem az tjba kerl porszemek
ltal, gy tesz a Legfelsbb mindent ismertt, mg
nmaga ismeretlen marad.

Q: Does it mean that the Unknown is inaccessible? K: Ez azt jelenti, hogy az Ismeretlen
hozzfrhetetlen?

M: Oh, no. The Supreme is the easiest to reach for it M: Oh, nem. A Legfelsbbet lehet a legknnyebben
is your very being. It is enough to stop thinking and elrni, mert az a te valsgos lted. Elg lelltani a
desiring anything, but the Supreme. gondolkodst, s a vgyakozst dolgok irnt, kivve
ez all a Legfelsbbet.

Q: And if I desire nothing, not even the Supreme? K: s ha nem vgyom semmire, mg a Legfelsbbre
sem?

M: Then you are as good as dead, or you are the M: Akkor olyan vagy, mint a halott, vagy te vagy a
Supreme. Legfelsbb.

Q: The world is full of desires: Everybody wants K: A vilg vgyakkal teli: mindenki mindenflt akar.
something or other. Who is the desirer? The person Ki a vgyakoz? A szemly, vagy az n?
or the self?

M: The self. All desires, holy and unholy, come from M: Az n. Minden vgy, legyen az szent, avagy
the self; they all hang on the sense 'I am'. profn, az nbl ered; mind az n vagyok rzettl
fggenek.

Q: I can understand holy desires (satyakama)
emanating from the self. It may be the expression of
the bliss aspect of the Sadchitananda (Beingness --
Awareness --Happiness) of the Self. But why unholy
desires?
K: rtem, hogy a szent vgyak (satyakama) az
nbl szrmaznak. Lehet, hogy ez az nnek a
Sadchitananda (Lt Tudat dv), dv aspektusa.
De mirt vannak profn vgyak?

M: All desires aim at happiness. Their shape and M: Minden vgynak a boldogsg a clja. Formjuk
quality depend on the psyche (antahkarana). Where s minsgk a pszichtl fgg (antahkarana). Ahol
inertia (tamas) predominates, we find perversions. a tehetetlensg (tamas) van tlslyban, ott
With energy (rajas), passions arise. With lucidity romlottsgot lelnk. Az energival (rajas)

65
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
(sattva) the motive behind the desire is goodwill, szenvedlyek keletkeznek. A vilgossggal (sattva)
compassion, the urge to make happy rather than be a vgy mgtt jakarat, rszvt hzdik, s inkbb a
happy. But the Supreme is beyond all, yet because boldogg tevsnek, mint a boldogg vlsnak a
of its infinite permeability all cogent desires can be knyszere. Habr a Legfelsbb mindenek felett ll,
fulfilled. mgis, teresztkpessge vgtelen lvn, minden
rvnyes vgy beteljeslhet.

Q: Which desires are cogent? K: Milyenek az rvnyes vgyak?

M: Desires that destroy their subjects, or objects, or
do not subside on satisfaction are self-contradictory
and cannot be fulfilled. Only desires motivated by
love, goodwill and compassion are beneficial to both
the subject and object and can be fully satisfied.
M: Azok a vgyak, amelyek elpuszttjk
szubjektumaikat, vagy objektumaikat, vagy nem
csillapodnak le kielgtsk utn, azok
nellentmondsosak, s nem teljeslhetnek be.
Csak a szeretet, jakarat, s rszvt motivlta
vgyak dvsek mind a szubjektumra, mind az
objektumra nzve, s teljeslhetnek be teljes
egszben.

Q: All desires are painful, the holy as well as the K: Minden vgy fjdalommal jr, a szent ugyangy,
unholy. mint a profn.

M: They are not the same and pain is not the same. M: A vgyak nem azonosak, s a fjdalom sem
Passion is painful, compassion -- never. The entire azonos. A szenvedly fjdalmas, a knyrlet
universe strives to fulfil a desire born of compassion. sosem. Az egsz univerzum arra trekszik, hogy a
knyrletbl szletett vgyat beteljestse.

Q: Does the Supreme know itself? Is the Impersonal K: Ismeri a Legfelsbb sajt magt? Tudatos a
conscious? Szemlytelen?

M: The source of all has all. Whatever flows from it
must be there already in seed form. And as a seed
is the last of innumerable seeds, and contains the
experience and the promise of numberless forests,
so does the Unknown contain all that was, or could
have been and all that shall or would be. The entire
field of becoming is open and accessible; past and
future coexist in the eternal now.
M: A minden forrsa mindent magban foglal. Brmi
is szrmazzk belle, annak mr ott kellett lennie,
mag formjban. s amint az a mag, amely
szmtalan mag kztti utolsknt szmtalan erd
tapasztalatt s grett tartalmazza, gy tartalmaz
az Ismeretlen mindent, ami volt, vagy lehetett volna,
s mindent, ami lesz, vagy lehetne. A valamiv vls
egsz tere nyitott s elrhet; mlt s jv
egyidejleg lteznek az rk mostban.

Q: Are you living in the Supreme Unknown? K: Te a Legfelsbb Ismeretlenben lsz?

M: Where else? M: Hol mshol?

Q: What makes you say so? K: Mirt mondod ezt?

M: No desire ever arises in my mind. M: Soha nem merlnek fel vgyak az elmmben.

Q: Are you then unconscious? K: Akkor ht tudattalan vagy?

M: Of course not. I am fully conscious, but since no M: Termszetesen nem. Teljesen tudatos vagyok,
desire or fear enters my mind, there is perfect de mivel elmmbe nem lp be vgy, vagy flelem,
silence. tkletes benne a csend.

Q: Who knows the silence? K: Ki tud a csendrl?

M: Silence knows itself. It is the silence of the silent M: A csend tud nmagrl. Ez a csendes elme
mind, when passions and desires are silenced. csendje, amikor a szenvedlyek s vgyak
elnmulnak.

Q: Do you experience desires occasionally? K: Tapasztalsz vgyakat nhanapjn?

66
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
M: Desires are just waves in the mind. You know a
wave when you see one. A desire is just a thing
among many. I feel no urge to satisfy it, no action
needs be taken on it. Freedom from desire means
this: the compulsion to satisfy is absent.
Q: Why do desires arise at all?
M: Because you imagine that you were born, and
that you will die if you do not take care of your body.
Desire for embodied existence is the root-cause of
trouble.
Q: Yet, so many jivas get into bodies. Surely it
cannot be some error of judgement. There must be
a purpose. What could it be?
M: To know itself the self must be faced with its
opposite -- the not-self. Desire leads to experience.
Experience leads to discrimination, detachment,
self-knowledge -- liberation. And what is liberation
after all? To know that you are beyond birth and
death. By forgetting who you are and imagining
yourself a mortal creature, you created so much
trouble for yourself that you have to wake up, like
from a bad dream.
Enquiry also wakes you up. You need not wait for
suffering; enquiry into happiness is better, for the
mind is in harmony and peace.
Q: Who exactly is the ultimate experiencer -- the
Self or the Unknown?
M: The Self, of course.
Q: Then why introduce the notion of the Supreme
Unknown?
M: To explain the Self.
Q: But is there anything beyond the Self?
M: Outside the Self there is nothing. All is one and
all is contained in 'I am'. In the waking and dream
states it is the person. In deep sleep and turiya it is
the Self. Beyond the alert intentness of turiya lies the
great, silent peace of the Supreme. But in fact all is
one in essence and related in appearance. In
ignorance the seer becomes the seen and in
wisdom he is the seeing.
But why be concerned with the Supreme? Know the
knowers and all will be known.
67
M: A vgyak csak hullmok az elmmben. Akkor
szerzel tudomst egy hullmrl, amikor ltsz egyet.
A vgy csak egy a sok dolog kztt. Nem rzek
ksztetst, hogy beteljestsem, sem cselekvs
knyszert, hogy legyzzem. A vgytl val
szabadsg ezt jelenti: hinyzik a beteljestsnek a
knyszere.
K: Egyltaln, mirt keletkeznek vgyak?
M: Azrt, mert azt kpzeled, hogy megszlettl, s
hogy meg fogsz halni, ha nem viseled gondjt a
testednek. A megtesteslt ltre irnyul vgy a baj
gykr oka.
K: Igen, oly sok jiva lt testet. Ez nem lehet
valamilyen hibs dnts, bizonyra. Kell legyen
valamilyen cl. Mi lehet az?
M: Hogy megismerje magt, az nnek szembeslnie
kell ellenttvel a nem-nnel. A vgy
tapasztalshoz vezet. A tapasztals felismershez,
prtatlansghoz, nismerethez vezet
megszabadulshoz. s mi a megszabaduls vgl
is? Tudni, hogy szlets s hall fltt ll vagy.
Elfelejtvn, hogy ki vagy, s nmagadat haland
teremtmnynek kpzelvn, oly sok bajt teremtettl
nmagad szmra, hogy fel kell bredned, mint egy
rossz lombl.
A kutats ugyancsak felbreszt. Nem kell
szenvedsre vrnod; a boldogsg kutatsa a jobb,
mert ekkor az elme harmniban s bkben van.
K: Pontosan, ki a vgs tapasztal az n, vagy az
Ismeretlen?
M: Az n, termszetesen.
K: Akkor mirt vezeted be a Legfelsbb Ismeretlen
fogalmt?
M: Hogy megmagyarzzam az nt.
K: De ht van valami az nen tl?
M: Az nen kvl semmi sincs. Minden egy, s
minden az n vagyok-ban van. Az brenlt s az
lom llapotban ez a szemly. A mly alvsban
s a turiya-ban ez az n. A turiya ber figyelmn
tl van a Legfelsbb hatalmas, csendes bkje. De
valjban, lnyegt tekintve, minden egy, s
megjelenskben sszekapcsoldnak.
Tudatlansgban a lt a ltott vlik, s
blcsessgben a lts.
De mirt foglalkozol a Legfelsbbel? Ismerd meg az
ismert, s minden ismertt vlik.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
21. Who am I?
Questioner: We are advised to worship reality
personified as God, or as the Perfect Man. We are
told not to attempt the worship of the Absolute, as it
is much too difficult for a braincentred
consciousness.
Maharaj: Truth is simple and open to all. Why do
you complicate? Truth is loving and lovable. It
includes all, accepts all, purifies all. It is untruth that
is difficult and a source of trouble. It always wants,
expects, demands. Being false, it is empty, always in
search of confirmation and reassurance. It is afraid
of and avoids enquiry. It identifies itself with any
support, however weak and momentary. Whatever it
gets, it loses and asks for more. Therefore put no
faith in the conscious. Nothing you can see, feel, or
think is so. Even sin and virtue, merit and demerit
are not what they appear. Usually the bad and the
good are a matter of convention and custom and are
shunned or welcomed, according to how the words
are used.
Q: Are there not good desires and bad, high desires
and low?
M: All desires are bad, but some are worse than
others. Pursue any desire, it will always give you
trouble.
Q: Even the desire to be free of desire?
M: Why desire at all? Desiring a state of freedom
from desire will not set you free. Nothing can set you
free, because you are free. See yourself with
desireless clarity, that is all.
Q: It takes time to know oneself.
M: How can time help you? Time is a succession of
moments; each moment appears out of nothing and
disappears into nothing, never to reappear. How can
you build on something so fleeting?
Q: What is permanent?
M: Look to yourself for the permanent. Dive deep
within and find what is real in you.
Q: How to look for myself?
M: Whatever happens, it happens to you. What you M: Brmi trtnik, az benned trtnik. Amit teszel, a
do, the doer is in you. Find the subject of all that you cselekv benned van. Fedezd fel mindennek a
are as a person. szubjektumt, ami te vagy, egy szemlyben.
68
21. Ki vagyok n?
Krdez: Azt a tancsot adtk, hogy az Istenknt,
vagy a Tkletes Emberknt megszemlyestett
valsgot imdjuk. Azt mondtk, ne az Abszolt
imdsra trekedjnk, mivel az tl nehz az
agykzpont tudatossg szmra.
Maharaj: Az igazsg egyszer, s mindenki
szmra hozzfrhet. Mirt kompliklod? Az
igazsg szeret, s szeretetre mlt. Tartalmaz
mindent, elfogad mindent, megtisztt mindent. A
hazugsg bonyolult, s bajok forrsa. Mindig akar,
elvr, kvetel. Hamis lvn res, mindig
megerstst s biztostkot keres. Fli s kerli a
vizsgldst. Valamifle fenntartval azonostja
magt, holott gyenge s pillanatnyi. Brmit elr
elveszti, s tovbb keres. Ezrt nem tesz a
tudatossg mellett hitet. Semmit nem lthatsz,
rezhetsz, vagy gondolhatsz annak, ami. Mg a bn
s az erny, az rdem s az rdemtelensg sem
azok, aminek ltszanak. A rossz s a j rendszerint
megegyezs s szoks krdse, kerlend vagy
dvzlend, a hasznlt szavakkal sszhangban.
K: Nincsenek j s rossz vgyak, emelkedett s
alsbbrend vgyak?
M: Minden vgy rossz, de nmelyek a tbbinl is
rosszabbak. Akrmilyen vgyat kergetsz, az mindig
bajba sodor.
K: Mg a vgyakozstl val megszabaduls vgya
is?
M: Minek vgyni egyltaln? A vgyakozstl val
megszabaduls vgya sem fog szabadd tenni.
Semmi nem tehet szabadd, mivel szabad vagy.
Lsd nmagad vgymentes fnyknt, ez minden.
K: Idbe kerl, hogy megismerjem nmagamat.
M: Hogyan segthetne az id? Az id a pillanatok
egymsra kvetkezse; minden pillanat eltnik a
semmibl s eltnik a semmibe, soha nem lpve
jra sznre. Hogy pthetsz valamire, ami ennyire
mland?
K: Mi lland?
M: Keresd nmagadban az llandt. Merlj al
mlyen, befel, s fedezd fel, ami valdi benned.
K: Hogyan kell nmagamban keresnem?
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: What else can I be?
M: Find out. Even if I tell you that you are the
witness, the silent watcher, it will mean nothing to
you, unless you find the way to your own being.
Q: My question is: How to find the way to one's own
being?
M: Give up all questions except one: 'Who am l'?
After all, the only fact you are sure of is that you are.
The 'I am' is certain. The 'I am this' is not. Struggle to
find out what you are in reality.
Q: I am doing nothing else for the last 60 years.
M: What is wrong with striving? Why look for
results? Striving itself is your real nature.
Q: Striving is painful.
M: You make it so by seeking results. Strive without
seeking, struggle without greed.
Q: Why has God made me as I am?
M: Which God are you talking about? What is God?
Is he not the very light by which you ask the
question? 'I am' itself is God. The seeking itself is
God. In seeking you discover that you are neither
the body nor mind, and the love of the self in you is
for the self in all. The two are one. The
consciousness in you and the consciousness in me,
apparently two, really one, seek unity and that is
love.
Q: How am I to find that love?
M: What do you love now? The 'I am'. Give your
heart and mind to it, think of nothing else. This,
when effortless and natural, is the highest state. In it
love itself is the lover and the beloved.
Q: Everybody wants to live, to exist. Is it not self-
love?
M: All desire has its source in the self. It is all a
matter of choosing the right desire.
Q: What is right and what is wrong varies with habit
and custom. Standards vary with societies.
M: Discard all traditional standards. Leave them to
69
K: Mi ms lehetnk?
M: Fedezd fel. Mg ha el is mondom, hogy te vagy a
tan, a csendes megfigyel, az nem fog jelenteni
neked semmit, hacsak meg nem tallod az utat a
sajt lnyedhez.
K: Megkrdeznm: Hogyan keressem az utat a sajt
lnyemhez?
M: Hagyj fel minden krdssel, egy kivtelvel: Ki
vagyok n? Vgtre is az egyetlen tny, amiben
biztos lehetsz az, hogy vagy. Bizonyos, hogy n
vagyok. Igyekezz felfedezni, hogy mi vagy
valjban.
K: Semmi mst sem teszek, az utbbi 60 vben.
M: Mi baj a trekvssel? Mirt vrsz el
eredmnyeket? A trekvs maga a te valdi
termszeted.
K: A trekvs fjdalmas.
M: Te teszed azz, az eredmnyek hajszolsval.
Trekedj anlkl, hogy kvetelnl, kzdj anlkl,
hogy svrognl.
K: Mirt teremtett engem Isten n vagyokknt?
M: Melyik Istenrl beszlsz? Mi az Isten? Nem -e a
valdi fny, ami ltal krdezel? Az n vagyok maga
Isten. A keress maga Isten. A keress sorn
felfedezed, hogy te sem a test, sem az elme nem
vagy, s a benned lv n-szeretet teljes egszben
az nrt van. A kett egy. A benned lv
tudatossg, s a bennem lv tudatossg, kettnek
ltszik, valjban egyek, keresd az egysget, s az
a szeretet.
K: Hogyan keressem ezt a szeretet?
M: Mit szeretsz most? Az n vagyok-ot. Add t neki
szvedet s elmdet, semmi msra ne gondolj. Ez,
amikor erfeszts mentes s termszetes, a
legmagasabb llapot. Benne a szeretet maga a
szeret s a szeretett.
K: Mindenki akar lni, ltezni. Ez nem nszeretet?
M: Minden vgy az nbl ered. Mindez a helyes
vgy vlasztsnak a dolga.
K: Hogy mi a j, s mi a rossz, az habitustl s
szokstl fggen vltozik. A modellek egytt
vltoznak a trsadalmakkal.
M: Dobj ki minden hagyomnyos modellt. Hagyd r
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
the hypocrites. Only what liberates you from desire
and fear and wrong ideas is good. As long as you
worry about sin and virtue you will have no peace.
Q: I grant that sin and virtue are social norms. But
there may be also spiritual sins and virtues. I mean
by spiritual the absolute. Is there such a thing as
absolute sin or absolute virtue?
M: Sin and virtue refer to a person only. Without a
sinful or virtuous person what is sin or virtue? At the
level of the absolute there are no persons; the ocean
of pure awareness is neither virtuous nor sinful. Sin
and virtue are invariably relative.
Q: Can I do away with such unnecessary notions?
M: Not as long as you think yourself to be a person.
Q: By what sign shall l know that I am beyond sin
and virtue?
M: By being free from all desire and fear, from the
very idea of being a person. To nourish the ideas: 'I
am a sinner' 'I am not a sinner', is sin. To identify
oneself with the particular is all the sin there is. The
impersonal is real, the personal appears and
disappears. 'I am' is the impersonal Being. 'I am this'
is the person. The person is relative and the pure
Being -- fundamental.
Q: Surely pure Being is not unconscious, nor is it
devoid of discrimination. How can it be beyond sin
and virtue? Just tell us, please, has it intelligence or
not?
M: All these questions arise from your believing M: Mindeme krdsek azrt merlnek fel benned,
yourself to be a person. Go beyond the personal and mert szemlynek hiszed magad. Haladd meg a
see. szemlyt, s lss.
Q: What exactly do you mean when you ask me to
stop being a person?
M: I do not ask you to stop being -- that you cannot.
I ask you only to stop imagining that you were born,
have parents, are a body, will die and so on. Just try,
make a beginning -- it is not as hard as you think.
Q: To think oneself as the personal is the sin of the
impersonal.
M: Again the personal point of view. Why do you
insist on polluting the impersonal with your ideas of
sin and virtue? It just does not apply. The
70
azokat a hipokritkra. Csak az j, ami megszabadt
vgytl, flelemtl s rossz idektl. Ameddig bn
s erny miatt aggdsz, nem lelhetsz bkre.
K: Elfogadom, hogy bn s erny trsadalmi
normk. De ltezhetnek spiritulis bnk s ernyek
is. Spiritulis alatt az abszoltot rtem. Lteznek
olyan dolgok, mint abszolt bn vagy abszolt
erny?
M: Bn s erny csak szemlynek tulajdonthat.
Bns vagy ernyes szemly nlkl mi a bn, vagy
az erny? Az abszolt szintjn nincsenek
szemlyek; a tiszta tudatossg cenja se nem
ernyes, se nem bns. Bn s erny
megvltozhatatlanul viszonylagosak.
K: Ki tudom kszblni az ilyen szksgtelen
fogalmakat?
M: Amg szemlynek gondolod magad, addig nem.
K: Milyen jelekbl fogom tudni, hogy tl vagyok
bnn s ernyen?
M: Abbl, hogy mentes vagy minden vgytl s
flelemtl, attl az idetl, hogy szemly vagy. A
bns vagyok, nem vagyok bns idek tpllsa
bn. nmagadnak az egynivel val azonostsa,
mindssze ez a bn. A szemlytelen valsgos, a
szemlyes megjelenik majd eltnik. n vagyok a
szemlytelen Lt. n vagyok ez a szemly. A
szemly viszonylagos, s a tiszta Lt
fundamentlis.
K: A tiszta Lt biztosan nem tudattalan, sem
megklnbztetstl mentes. Hogy lehet, hogy tl
van bnn s ernyen? Csak azt mondd el neknk,
krlek, rendelkezik intelligencival, vagy nem?
K: Tulajdonkppen mire gondolsz, amikor arra
krsz, hogy sznjek meg szemlynek lenni?
M: Nem a lt megszntetst krem tled ezt nem
is tudnd megtenni. Csak azt krem, hogy hagyj fel
azzal az elkpzelssel, hogy szlettl, hogy szleid
vannak, hogy test vagy, hogy meg fogsz halni, s
gy tovbb. Csak prblkozz, fogj hozz nem
olyan nehz, mint ahogy azt gondolod.
K: Szemlynek gondolni nmagam a szemlytelen
bne.
M: Megint a szemlyes nzpont. Mirt ragaszkodsz
ahhoz, hogy bn s erny fogalmaiddal
beszennyezd a szemlytelent? A szemlytelen nem
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
impersonal cannot be described in terms of good
and bad. It is Being -- Wisdom -- Love -- all absolute. Blcsessg Szeretet csupa abszolt. Hol a bn
Where is the scope for sin there? And virtue is only
the opposite of sin.
Q: We talk of divine virtue.
M: True virtue is divine nature (swarupa). What you M: Az igaz erny isteni termszet (swarupa). Ami
are really is your virtue. But the opposite of sin which valjban vagy, az a te ernyed. De a bn ellentte,
you call virtue is only obedience born out of fear.
Q: Then why all effort at being good?
M: It keeps you on the move. You go on and on till
you find God. Then God takes you into Himself --
and makes you as He is.
Q: The same action is considered natural at one
point and a sin at another. What makes it sinful?
M: Whatever you do against your better knowledge
is sin.
Q: Knowledge depends on memory.
M: Remembering your self is virtue, forgetting your
self is sin. It all boils down to the mental or
psychological link between the spirit and matter. We
may call the link psyche (antahkarana). When the
psyche is raw, undeveloped, quite primitive, it is
subject to gross illusions. As it grows in breadth and
sensitivity, it becomes a perfect link between pure
matter and pure spirit and gives meaning to matter
and expression to spirit.
There is the material world (mahadakash) and the
spiritual (paramakash). Between lies the universal
mind (chidakash) which is also the universal heart
(premakash). It is wise love that makes the two one.
Q: Some people are stupid, some are intelligent.
The difference is in their psyche. The ripe ones had
more experience behind them. Just like a child
grows by eating and drinking, sleeping and playing,
so is man's psyche shaped by all he thinks and feels
and does, until it is perfect enough to serve as a
bridge between the spirit and the body. As a bridge
permits the traffic; between the banks, so does the
psyche bring together the source and its expression.
M: Call it love. The bridge is love.
Q: Ultimately all is experience. Whatever we think,
feel, do is experience. Behind it is the experiencer.
So all we know consists of these two, the
71
jellemezhet a j s rossz kifejezseivel. Az Lt
hatkre? s az erny csak a bn ellentte.
K: Beszlnk isteni ernyrl.
amit te ernynek nevezel, csak flelembl szletett
engedelmessg.
K: Akkor minek minden erfeszts a jobb vlsra?
M: Mozgsban tart. Folyton-folyvst msz, amg
meg nem tallod Istent. Akkor Isten bevon
nmagba s olyann tesz, mint .
K: Ugyanazon cselekedet termszetesnek
tekintend az egyik esetben, s bnnek a msikban.
Mi teszi bnss?
M: Ha brmit a legjobb tudsod ellenben teszel, az
bn.
K: A tuds az emlkezettl fgg.
M: nedre emlkezni erny, nedet elfelejteni bn.
Ez a szellem s az anyag kztti mentlis vagy
pszicholgiai kapcsolat sszefoglalsa. Nevezhetjk
a kapcsolatot pszichnek (antahkarana). Amikor a
pszich nyers, fejletlen, egszen primitv, akkor
erteljes illziknak alvetett. Ahogy
emelkedettsgben s rzkenysgben nvekszik,
gy vlik a tiszta anyag, s a tiszta szellem kztti
tkletes kapcsolatt, s ad rtelmet az anyagnak,
s kifejezst a szellemnek.
Van az anyagi vilg (mahadakash), s van a
spiritulis (paramakash) vilg. Kzttk van az
univerzlis elme (chidakash), amely az univerzlis
szv (premakash) is. Ez a blcs szeretet az, amely a
kettt egyesti.
K: Vannak ostoba emberek, s vannak intelligensek.
A klnbsg a pszichjkben van. Az rettek mgtt
tbb a tapasztalat. Ahogy a gyermek nvekszik az
evs, ivs, alvs s jtk ltal, gy formldik az
emberi pszich a gondolatok, rzsek s
cselekedetek ltal, amg elg tkletes nem lesz
ahhoz, hogy hdknt szolgljon a szellem s a test
kztt. Ahogy egy hd lehetv teszi a forgalmat a
partok kztt, gy kpez a pszich hidat a forrs s
annak kifejezdse kztt.
M: Nevezd szeretetnek. A hd szeretet.
K: Vgs soron minden tapasztalat. Brmit
gondolunk, rznk, csinlunk, az tapasztalat.
Emgtt van a tapasztal. gy mindent, amit tudunk,
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
experiencer and the experience. But the two are
really one -- the experiencer alone is the experience.
Still, the experiencer takes the experience to be
outside. In the same way the spirit and the body are
one; they only appear as two.
M: To the Spirit there is no second.
Q: To whom then does the second appear? It seems
to me that duality is an illusion induced by the
imperfection of the psyche. When the psyche is
perfect, duality is no longer seen.
M: You have said it.
Q: Still I have to repeat my very simple question:
who makes the distinction between sin and virtue?
M: He who has a body, sins with the body, he who
has a mind, sins with the mind.
Q: Surely, the mere possession of mind and body
does not compel to sin. There must be a third factor
at the root of it. I come back again and again to this
question of sin and virtue, because now-a-days
young people keep on saying that there is no such
thing as sin, that one need not be squermish and
should follow the moment's desire readily. They will
accept neither tradition nor authority and can be
influenced only by solid and honest thought. If they
refrain from certain actions, it is through fear of
police rather than by conviction. Undoubtedly there
is something in what they say, for we can see how
our values change from place to place and time to
time. For instance -- killing in war is great virtue
today and may be considered a horrible crime next
century.
M: A man who moves with the earth will necessarily
experience days and nights. He who stays with the
sun will know no darkness. My world is not yours. As
I see it, you all are on a stage performing. There is
no reality about your comings and goings. And your
problems are so unreal.
Q: We may be sleep-walkers, or subject to
nightmares. Is there nothing you can do?
M: I am doing: I did enter your dreamlike state to tell
you -- "Stop hurting yourself and others, stop
suffering, wake up".
Q: Why then don't we wake up?
M: You will. I shall not be thwarted. It may take
72
e kettbl ll ssze, a tapasztalbl s a
tapasztalatbl. De a kett valjban egy a
tapasztal maga a tapasztalat. A tapasztal mgis
azrt szerzi a tapasztalatot, hogy kvl legyen.
Ugyangy a szellem s a test is egy; csak kettnek
mutatkozik.
M: A Szellem szmra nincs msik.
K: Kinek jelenik meg akkor a msik? Nekem gy
tnik, hogy a dualits egy olyan illzi, amely a
pszich tkletlensge miatt jtt ltre. Amikor a
pszich tkletes, dualits sincs tbb.
M: Ezt te mondtad.
K: Megint az n nagyon egyszer krdsemet kell
feltennem: ki teszi a klnbsget bn s erny
kztt?
M: Akinek teste van, a testtel kveti el bnt, akinek
elmje van, elmvel kvet el bnt.
K: Az elme s a test puszta birtoklsa nyilvn nem
knyszert bn elkvetsre. Kell, hogy legyen egy
harmadik tnyez, ami ennek alapja. Azrt trek
vissza jra s jra, a bn s erny e krdshez,
mert manapsg a fiatalok kztt az a monds tartja
magt, hogy olyan mint bn, nem ltezik, hogy az
ember ne legyen finnys, s azonnal kvetnie kell
pillanatnyi vgyait. Nem fogadnak el sem
hagyomnyt, sem tekintlyt, s csak komoly s
becsletes gondolatokkal befolysolhatk. Ha
tartzkodnak bizonyos cselekedtektl, azt inkbb a
rendrsgtl val flelembl teszik, mint
meggyzdsbl. Tagadhatatlan, hogy van valami
abban, amit mondanak, mert lthatjuk, hogyan
vltoznak rtkeink helyenknt, s idnknt.
Hborban lni, pldul, ma nagy erny, a
kvetkez vszzadban pedig lehet, hogy
borzalmas bntettnek fog szmtani.
M: A Fldn l szksgszeren tapasztal
nappalokat s jszakkat. Aki a Napon lakik, nem
ismer sttsget. Az n vilgom nem a titek. Ahogy
ltom, ti most mind sznpadi eladsban vagytok.
Semmi realitsa, ahogy jttk-mentek. s
problmitok annyira valszertlenek.
K: Lehet, hogy alvajrk vagyunk, vagy egy
rmlom alakjai. Semmit nem tehetsz?
M: Teszek: Belptem a te lomszer llapotodba
hogy kzljem veled Hagyd abba, hogy fjdalmat
okozol magadnak s msoknak, hagyd abba a
szenvedst, bredj fel.
K: Akkor mirt nem brednk fel?
M: Fel fogsz. n nem foglak akadlyozni. Ignyelhet
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
some time. When you shall begin to question your
dream, awakening will be not far away.
22. Life is Love and Love is Life
Questioner: Is the practice of Yoga always
conscious? Or, can it be quite unconscious, below
the threshold of awareness?
Maharaj: In the case of a beginner the practice of
Yoga is often deliberate and requires great
determination. But those who are practising
sincerely for many years, are intent on self-
realisation all the time, whether conscious of it or
not. Unconscious sadhana is most effective,
because it is spontaneous and steady.
Q: What is the position of the man who was a
sincere student of Yoga for some time and then got
discouraged and abandoned all efforts?
M: What a man appears to do, or not to do, is often
deceptive. His apparent lethargy may be just a
gathering of strength. The causes of our behaviour
are very subtle. One must not be quick to condemn,
not even to praise. Remember that Yoga is the work
of the inner self (vyakta) on the outer self (vyakti). All
that the outer does is merely in response to the
inner.
Q: Still the outer helps.
M: How much can it help and in what way? It has
some control over the body and can improve its
posture and breathing. Over the mind's thoughts and
feelings it has little mastery, for it is itself the mind. It
is the inner that can control the outer. The outer will
be wise to obey.
Q: If it is the inner that is ultimately responsible for
man's spiritual development, why is the outer so
much exhorted and encouraged?
M: The outer can help by keeping quiet and free
from desire and fear. You would have noticed that all
advice to the outer is in the form of negations: don't,
stop, refrain, forego, give up, sacrifice, surrender,
see the false as false. Even the little description of
reality that is given is through denials -- 'not this, not
this', (neti, neti). All positives belong to the inner self,
as all absolutes -- to Reality.
Q: How are we to distinguish the inner from the
outer in actual experience?
M: The inner is the source of inspiration, the outer is M: A bels a forrsa az inspircinak, a kls
moved by memory. The source is untraceable, while mozgatja az emlkezetet. A forrs
73
nmi idt. Amikortl elkezded ktsgbe vonni az
lmodat, az breds mr nincs messze.
22. Az let szeretet s a szeretet let
Krdez: A Yoga gyakorlsa mindig tudatos? Vagy
lehet teljesen tudattalan is, az bersg kszbszintje
alatti?
Maharaj: Kezdk esetben a Yoga gyakorlsa
gyakorta szndkos, s nagy eltkltsget ignyel.
De azok, akik komolyan, tbb ve gyakorolnak,
szakadatlanul az nmegvalstsra trekedve, vagy
tudatban vannak, vagy nem. A tudattalan sadhana
a leghatkonyabb, mert az spontn, s folyamatos.
K: Mi a helyzet azzal, aki komoly Yoga gyakorl volt
egy ideig, majd elcsggedt, s felhagyott minden
erfesztssel?
M: Hogy valakin ltszik-e, hogy gyakorol, vagy sem,
gyakran megtveszt. Ltszlagos letargija puszta
ergyjts is lehet. Viselkedsnk okai nagyon
nehezen megfoghatk. Senkit nem szabad gyorsan
eltlni, sem felmagasztalni. Ne felejtsd, hogy a
Yoga a bels n (vyakta) munkja a kls nen
(vyakti). Minden, amit a kls csinl, csupn vlasz
a belsre.
K: Mgis a kls segt.
M: Mennyire segthet s mi mdon? Van nmi
kontrollja a test fltt, s javtani tud a testtartson
s a llegzsen. Az elme gondolatai s rzsei fltt
kevs hatalma van, mert maga az elme. A bels
az, amely kontrolllni tudja a klst. Ha a kls elg
blcs, akkor engedelmeskedik neki.
K: Ha a bels az, amely vgs soron az ember
spiritulis fejldsrt felels, akkor mirt serkentik
s sztnzik annyira a klst?
M: A kls segteni kpes csendben maradni, s
vgytl s flelemtl mentesnek lenni.
szrevehetted volna, hogy a klsnek adott minden
tancs tagad formj: ne tedd, llj meg, tartzkodj,
mondj le, add fel, ldozd fel, engedd el, lsd a
hamisat hamisnak. Mg az adott valsgnak a
rvid lersa is tagadson keresztl trtnik nem
ez, nem ez, (neti, neti). Minden pozitv a bels
nhez tartozik, mint ahogy minden teljes a
Valsghoz.
K: Hogyan klnbztetjk meg a belst a klstl a
tnyleges tapasztals sorn?
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
all memory begins somewhere. Thus the outer is
always determined, while the inner cannot be held in
words. The mistake of students consists in their
imagining the inner to be something to get hold of,
and forgetting that all perceivables are transient and,
therefore, unreal. Only that which makes perception
possible, call it Life or Brahman, or what you like, is
real.
kinyomozhatatlan, amg minden emlkezetnek
kezdete van valahol. Ily mdon a kls mindig
determinlt, mg a bels nem foglalhat szavakba. A
tanulk akkor hibznak, mikor azt kpzelik, hogy a
bels valami olyan, amit meg kell szereznik, s
elfelejtik, hogy minden szlelhet tmeneti, s ezrt
valtlan. Csak ami az szlelst lehetv teszi, azt
nevezzk letnek vagy Brahman-nak, vagy ami
ugyanaz, valsgnak.

Q: Must Life have a body for its self-expression? K: Az letnek szksge van testre az n-
kifejezshez?

M: The body seeks to live. It is not life that needs the M: A test akar lni. Nem az letnek van szksge a
body; it is the body that needs life. testre; a testnek van szksge az letre.

Q: Does life do it deliberately? K: Az let ezt tudatosan teszi?

M: Does love act deliberately? Yes and no. Life is
love and love is life. What keeps the body together
but love? What is desire, but love of the self? What
is fear but the urge to protect? And what is
knowledge but the love of truth? The means and
forms may be wrong, but the motive behind is
always love -- love of the me and the mine. The me
and the mine may be small, or may explode and
embrace the universe, but love remains.
M: A szeretet tudatosan cselekszik? Igen s nem. Mi
ms tartja egyben a testet, mint a szeretet? Mi a
vgy, ha nem az n szeretete? Mi a flelem, ha nem
az oltalmazs knyszere? s mi a tuds, ha nem az
igazsg szeretete? Az eszkzk s formk lehetnek
rosszak, de a mgttk hzd indtk mindig a
szeretet az n s az enym szeretete. Az n s az
enym, lehet kicsi, vagy lehet az egsz univerzumra
kiterjed s azt tfog, de a szeretet ugyanaz.

Q: The repetition of the name of God is very K: Isten nevnek az ismtelgetse Indiban nagyon
common in India. Is there any virtue in it? megszokott dolog. Van valamilyen rtke ennek?

M: When you know the name of a thing, or a person, M: Ha ismered egy dolognak, vagy egy szemlynek
you can find it easily. By calling God by His name a nevt, akkor azt knnyen megtallod. Istent a
you make Him come to you. nevn szltva, arra kszteted t, hogy eljjjn
hozzd.

Q: In what shape does He come? K: Milyen formban fog eljnni?

M: According to your expectations. If you happen to M: Az elvrsaidnak megfelelen. Ha te

be unlucky and some saintly soul gives you a
mantra for good luck and you repeat it with faith and
devotion, your bad luck is bound to turn. Steady faith
is stronger than destiny. Destiny is the result of
causes, mostly accidental, and is therefore loosely
woven. Confidence and good hope will overcome it
easily.
trtnetesen egy peches ember vagy, s valamely
jmbor llek ad neked egy j szerencse mantrt, s
te azt hittel s odaadssal ismtelgeted, akkor a
rossz szerencse visszjra fordul. A szilrd hit
ersebb, mint a vgzet. A vgzet az okok
eredmnye, tbbnyire vletlenszer, s emiatt lazn
szvtt. Bizalom s j remnysg knnyedn
gyzedelmeskedik fltte.

Q: When a mantra is chanted, what exactly K: A mantra kntlsakor mi trtnik pontosan?

happens?

M: The sound of mantra creates the shape which
will embody the Self. The Self can embody any
shape -- and operate through it. After all, the Self is
expressing itself in action -- and a mantra is primarily
energy in action. It acts on you, it acts on your
surroundings.
M: A mantra hangja hozza ltre a formt, amit az n
megtestest. Az n brmilyen formt meg tud
testesteni s mkdni azon keresztl.
Tulajdonkppen az n a cselekvsben fejezi ki
magt s a mantra elssorban a cselekvsben
lv energia. Hat terd, hat a krnyezetedre.

Q: The mantra is traditional. Must it be so? K: A mantra tradicionlis. Ennek gy kell lennie?

74
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
M: Since time immemorial a link was created M: Emberemlkezet eltti id ta kapcsolat van
between certain words and corresponding energies bizonyos szavak, s a megfelel energik kztt, s
and reinforced by numberless repetitions. It is just megszmllhatatlan ismtlssel megersthet. Ez
like a road to walk on. It is an easy way -- only faith ppen olyan, mint az t, amelyen stlsz. Knny t
is needed. You trust the road to take you to your csak hit szksges hozz. Hinned kell, hogy az t
destination. elvisz a clodig.

Q: In Europe there is no tradition of a mantra, except K: Eurpban nincs hagyomnya a mantrnak,

in some contemplative orders. Of what use is it to a egyes kontemplatv rendek kivtelvel. Mi a haszna
modern young Westerner? egy modern nyugati fiatal szmra?

M: None, unless he is very much attracted. For him
the right procedure is to adhere to the thought that
he is the ground of all knowledge, the immutable
and perennial awareness of all that happens to the
senses and the mind. If he keeps it in mind all the
time, aware and alert, he is bound to break the
bounds of non-awareness and emerge into pure life,
light and love. The idea -- 'I am the witness only' will
purify the body and the mind and open the eye of
wisdom. Then man goes beyond illusion and his
heart is free of all desires. Just like ice turns to water
and water to vapour, and vapour dissolves in air and
disappears in space, so does the body dissolve into
pure awareness (chidakash), then into pure being
(paramakash), which is beyond all existence and
non-existence.
M: Semmi, hacsak az nem vonzza t nagyon. A
szmra megfelel gyakorlat az, ha ragaszkodik a
gondolathoz, hogy minden tuds alapja, lland s
halhatatlan tudatossga minden olyannak, ami az
rzkekkel s az elmvel trtnik. Ha ezt
szakadatlanul, beren s kszenltben az
elmjben tartja, ssze kell, hogy trjenek a nem-
tudatossg korltai, s fel kell, hogy emelkedjen a
tiszta letbe, fnybe s szeretetbe. Az n vagyok az
egyetlen tan ideja meg fogja tiszttani a testet s
az elmt, s kinyitja a blcsessg szemt. Azutn az
ember meghaladja az illzit, s szve minden
vgytl szabadd vlik. Ahogy a jg vzz vlik, s a
vz prv, majd a pra sztoszlik a levegben s
eltnik a trben, ppen gy olddik fel a test a tiszta
tudatossgban (chidakash), majd a tiszta ltben
(paramakash), amely tl van minden ltezsen s
nemltezsen.

Q: The realised man eats, drinks and sleeps. What K: A megvalsult ember eszik, iszik, s alszik. Mi
makes him do so? kszteti, hogy gy tegyen?

M: The same power that moves the universe, moves M: Ugyanaz az er, amely az univerzumot mozgatja,
him too. mozgatja t is.

Q: All are moved by the same power: what is the K: Ha mindent ugyanazon er mozgat, mi a
difference? klnbsg?

M: This only: The realised man knows what others
merely hear; but don't experience. Intellectually they
may seem convinced, but in action they betray their
bondage, while the realised man is always right.
M: Csak az, hogy a megvalsult ember tudja, amit a
tbbiek csupn hallanak, de nem tapasztalnak.
Intellektulisan lehet, hogy meggyzdttnek
ltszanak, de tetteik ktelkeikrl rulkodnak, mg a
megvalsult ember mindig helyesen cselekszik.

Q: Everybody says 'I am'. The realised man too says K: Mindenki azt mondja, hogy n vagyok. A
'I am'. Where is the difference? megvalsult ember is azt mondja, hogy n vagyok.
Mi a klnbsg?

M: The difference is in the meaning attached to the
words 'I am'. With the realised man the experience: 'I
am the world, the world is mine' is supremely valid --
he thinks, feels and acts integrally and in unity with
all that lives. He may not even know the theory and
practice of self-realisation, and be born and bred
free of religious and metaphysical notions. But there
will not be the least flaw in his understanding and
compassion.
M: A klnbsg az n vagyok szhoz ktd
jelentsben van. A megvalsult ember tapasztalata:
n vagyok a vilg, a vilg az enym a legteljesebb
mrtkben rvnyes hibtlanul gondolkodik, rez
s cselekszik, s minden lvel egysgben. Lehet,
hogy mg csak nem is ismeri az nmegvalsts
elmlett s gyakorlatt, s zig-vrig mentes vallsi
s metafizikai fogalmaktl. De nincs a legkisebb
hiba sem rtelmi kpessge s knyrlete tern.

Q: I may come across a beggar, naked and hungry K: Tegyk fel, hogy rakadok egy meztelen s hes

75
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
and ask him 'Who are you?' He may answer: 'I am
the Supreme Self'. 'Well', I say, 'suffice you are the
Supreme, change your present state'. What will he
do?
M: He will ask you: 'Which state? What is there that
needs changing? What is wrong with me?
Q: Why should he answer so?
M: Because he is no longer bound by appearances,
he does not identify himself with the name and
shape. He uses memory, but memory cannot use
him.
Q: Is not all knowledge based on memory?
M: Lower knowledge -- yes. Higher knowledge,
knowledge of Reality, is inherent in man's true
nature.
Q: Can I say that I am not what I am conscious of,
nor am I consciousness itself?
M: As long as you are a seeker, better cling to the
idea that you are pure consciousness, free from all
content. To go beyond consciousness is the
supreme state.
Q: The desire for realisation, does it originate in
consciousness or beyond?
M: In consciousness, of course. All desire is born
from memory and is within the realm of
consciousness. What is beyond is clear of all
striving. The very desire to go beyond
consciousness is still in consciousness.
Q: Is there any trace, or imprint, of the beyond on
consciousness?
M: No, there cannot be.
Q: Then, what is the link between the two? How can
a passage be found between two states which have
nothing in common? Is not pure awareness the link
between the two?
M: Even pure awareness is a form of
consciousness.
Q: Then what is beyond? Emptiness?
M: Emptiness again refers only to consciousness.
Fullness and emptiness are relative terms. The Real
is really beyond -- beyond not in relation to
consciousness, but beyond all relations of whatever
kind. The difficulty comes with the word 'state'. The
Real is not a state of something else -- it is not a
76
koldusra, s megkrdezem tle ki vagy te? Lehet,
hogy azt vlaszolja: n vagyok a Legfelsbb n.
Nos, mondom, ha te vagy a Legfelsbb, vltoztasd
meg jelenlegi llapotodat. Mit fog csinlni?
M: Azt fogja krdezni: Milyen llapotot? Mi az, amit
meg kell vltoztani? Mi a baj velem?
K: Mirt kellene gy vlaszolnia?
M: Mert nem kti klssg, nem azonostja nmagt
a nvvel s a formval. Emlkezetet hasznl, de az
emlkezet nem tudja hasznlni t.
K: Nem minden tuds alapul memrin?
M: Az alacsonyabb tuds igen. A magasabb
tuds, a Valsg ismerete, az ember igazi
termszetnek velejrja.
K: Mondhatom azt, hogy n nem vagyok az, aminek
a tudatban vagyok, sem az, ami tudatban van
nmagnak?
M: Amg keres vagy, a legjobb, ha ahhoz az
idehoz ragaszkodsz, hogy a tiszta, minden
tartalomtl mentes tudatossg vagy. A tudatossg
meghaladsa a legfelsbb llapot.
K: A megvalsuls irnti vgy a tudatossgbl
szrmazik, vagy azon tlrl?
M: A tudatossgbl, termszetesen. Minden vgy
emlkezetbl szletik, s a tudatossg birodalmn
belli. Ami azon tl van, az minden trekvstl
mentes. A tudatossg meghaladsnak a vgya
valjban mg a tudatossgban van.
K: Van valamilyen nyom, vagy lenyomat, a
tudatossgon tl?
M: Nem, ott nem lehet.
K: Akkor mi a kapcsolat a kett kztt? Hogy lehet
tjrst tallni kt olyan llapot kztt, amelyekben
semmi kzs? Nem a tiszta bersg a kapcsolat
kettejk kztt?
M: Mg a tiszta bersg is a tudatossg egy
formja.
K: Akkor mi van azon tl? ressg?
M: Az ressg ismt csak a tudatossgra
vonatkozik. Teljessg s ressg viszonylagos
kifejezsek. A Valsg valban tl van nem a
tudatossgon tl, hanem minden relcin, legyen az
brmifle. A nehzsget az llapot sz okozza. A
Valsg nem llapota valami msnak. nem
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
state of mind or consciousness or psyche -- nor is it
something that has a beginning and an end, being
and not being. All opposites are contained in it -- but
it is not in the play of opposites. You must not take it
to be the end of a transition. It is itself, after the
consciousness as such is no more. Then words 'I
am man', or 'I am God' have no meaning. Only in
silence and in darkness can it be heard and seen.
23. Discrimination leads to Detachment
Maharaj: You are all drenched for it is raining hard.
In my world it is always fine weather. There is no
night or day, no heat or cold. No worries beset me
there, nor regrets. My mind is free of thoughts, for
there are no desires to slave for.
Questioner: Are there two worlds?
M: Your world is transient, changeful. My world is
perfect, changeless. You can tell me what you like
about your world -- I shall listen carefully, even with
interest, yet not for a moment shall I forget that your
world is not, that you are dreaming.
Q: What distinguishes your world from mine?
M: My world has no characteristics by which it can
be identified. You can say nothing about it. I am my
world. My world is myself. It is complete and perfect.
Every impression is erased, every experience --
rejected. I need nothing, not even myself, for myself
I cannot lose.
Q: Not even God?
M: All these ideas and distinctions exist in your
world; in mine there is nothing of the kind. My world
is single and very simple.
Q: Nothing happens there?
M: Whatever happens in your world, only there it
has validity and evokes response. In my world
nothing happens.
Q: The very fact of your experiencing your own
world implies duality inherent in all experience.
M: Verbally -- yes. But your words do not reach me.
Mine is a non-verbal world. In your world the
unspoken has no existence. In mine -- the words
and their contents have no being. In your world
77
llapota az elmnek, vagy a tudatossgnak vagy a
pszichnek sem nem olyan valami, aminek
kezdete s vge lenne, lte s nemlte. Minden
ellentt benne foglaltatik de nem vesz rszt az
ellenttek jtkban. Nem tekintheted egy tmenet
vgnek. nmaga, azutn a tudatossg, mint
olyan nincs tbb. Azutn az n ember vagyok
vagy n Isten vagyok szavaknak tbb nincs
jelentsge. Csak csendben s sttben lehet t
hallani s ltni.
23. A megklnbztets prtatlansghoz
vezet
Maharaj: Ti csurom vizesek vagytok, mert nagyon
esik. Az n vilgomban mindig j id van. Ott nincs
jszaka vagy nappal, nincs meleg vagy hideg. Nem
zaklatnak sem aggodalmak, sem sajnlkozs.
Elmm gondolatoktl mentes, mert nincsenek
vgyak, amiket szolglnia kellene.
Krdez: Kt vilg van?
M: A te vilgod tmeneti, vltozkony. Az n
vilgom tkletes, megvltozhatatlan. Elmondhatod
nekem, hogy mit szeretsz a vilgodban
figyelmesen, st rdekldssel hallgatlak, de egy
pillanatra sem feledem, hogy a te vilgod nem
ltezik, hogy lmodsz.
K: Mi klnbzteti meg a te vilgodat az enymtl?
M: Az n vilgomnak nincsenek jellemzi, amelyek
ltal azonosthat lenne. Nem tudsz rla mondani
semmit. n vagyok a vilgom. Az n vilgom n
magam vagyok. Teljes s tkletes vilg. Minden
benyoms trlve, minden tapasztalat elutastva.
Semmire nincs szksgem, mg sajt magamra
sem, mert nmagamat nem tudom elveszteni.
K: Mg Istenre sincs szksged?
M: Mindezen idek s sajtos vonsok a te
vilgodban vannak, az enymben semmi ilyesfle
nincs. Az n vilgom szimpla s nagyon egyszer.
K: Nem trtnik benne semmi?
M: Brmi trtnik a vilgodban, csak ott van neki
rvnyessge, s vlt ki reakcit. Az n vilgomban
semmi nem trtnik.
K: A te sajt vilgod tapasztalsnak tnye
valjban a minden tapasztalattal egytt jr
dualitsra utal.
M: Verblisan igen. De a szavaid nem rnek el
hozzm. Az enym szavaktl mentes vilg. A te
vilgodban ami nincs kimondva, az nem ltezik. Az
enymben a szavak, s azok tartalma nem
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
nothing stays, in mine -- nothing changes. My world lteznek. A te vilgodban semmi nem lland, az
is real, while yours is made of dreams. enymben semmi nem vltozik. Az n vilgom
valdi, mg a tiedet lmok alkotjk.

Q: Yet we are talking. K: Mi mgis beszlgetnk.

M: The talk is in your world. In mine -- there is M: A beszlgets a te vilgodban zajlik. Az

eternal silence. My silence sings, my emptiness is enymben rk csend van. Az n csendem
full, I lack nothing. You cannot know my world until nekel, az n ressgem teljes, nem vagyok hjn
you are there. semminek. Nem ismerheted meg a vilgomat, mg
ott nem vagy.

Q: It seems as if you alone are in your world. K: gy tnik, mintha egyedl lennl a vilgodban.

M: How can you say alone or not alone, when words M: Hogy mondhatsz ilyet, hogy egyedl, vagy nem
do not apply? Of course, I am alone for I am all. egyedl, mikor a szavak alkalmatlanok?
Termszetes, hogy egyedl vagyok, mikor n
vagyok minden.

Q: Are you ever coming into our world? K: Be szoktl jnni a mi vilgunkba?

M: What is coming and going to me? These again M: Mi szmomra a jvs s mens? Ezek megint
are words. I am. Whence am I to come from and szavak. n vagyok. Mirt is kellene valahonnan
where to go? jnnm, s hov kellene menjek?

Q: Of what use is your world to me? K: Mi haszna a te vilgodnak szmomra?

M: You should consider more closely your own M: Sajt vilgodat sokkal gondosabban kellene
world, examine it critically and, suddenly, one day szemllned, kritikusan vizsglnod, s egy nap
you will find yourself in mine. hirtelen az enymben tallnd magad.

Q: What do we gain by it? K: Mit nyernnk vele?

M: You gain nothing. You leave behind what is not M: Semmit nem nyersz. Elhagyod, ami nem sajtod,
your own and find what you have never lost -- your s megtallod, amit nem vesztettl el soha sajt
own being. ltedet.

Q: Who is the ruler of your world? K: Ki a vilgod ura?

M: There are no ruler and ruled here. There is no M: Nincs benne sem uralkod, sem olyan, aki fltt
duality whatsoever. You are merely projecting your uralkodnak. Nincs benne semmifle dualits. Te
own ideas. Your scriptures and your gods have no pusztn a sajt ideidat vetted ki. Szent
meaning here. knyveidnek s Isteneidnek itt nincs jelentsk.

Q: Still you have a name and shape, display K: Amg van neved s formd, ez tudatossgra s
consciousness and activity. tevkenysgre utal.

M: In your world I appear so. In mine I have being
only. Nothing else. You people are rich with your
ideas of possession, of quantity and quality. I am
completely without ideas.
M: A te vilgodban gy jelenek meg. Az enymben
csak ltem van. Semmi ms. Nlad az ember
lehetsgek, mennyisgek s minsgek
fogalmaiban bvelkedik. Nekem egyltaln
nincsenek fogalmaim.

Q: In my world there is disturbance, distress and K: Az n vilgomat felforduls, fjdalom s

despair. You seem to be living on some hidden ktsgbeess jellemzi. gy tnik, te bizonyos rejtett
income, while I must slave for a living. jvedelembl lsz, mg nekem szolglni kell, hogy
megljek.

M: Do as you please. You are free to leave your M: Tgy ahogy jnak ltod. Szabadsgodban ll,
world for mine. hogy elhagyd a vilgodat az enymrt.

78
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: How is the crossing done?
M: See your world as it is, not as you imagine it to
be. Discrimination will lead to detachment;
detachment will ensure right action; right action will
build the inner bridge to your real being. Action is a
proof of earnestness. Do what you are told diligently
and faithfully and all obstacles will dissolve.
Q: Are you happy?
M: In your world I would be most miserable. To
wake up, to eat, to talk, to sleep again -- what a
bother.
Q: So you do not want to live even?
M: To live, to die -- what meaningless words are
these. When you see me alive, I am dead. When
you think me dead, I am alive. How muddled up you
are.
Q: How indifferent you are? All the sorrows of our
world are as nothing to you.
M: I am quite conscious of your troubles.
Q: Then what are you doing about them?
M: There is nothing I need doing. They come and
go.
Q: Do they go by the very act of your giving them
attention?
M: Yes. The difficulty may be physical, emotional or
mental; but it is always individual. Large scale
calamities are the sum of numberless individual
destinies and take time to settle. But death is never
a calamity.
Q: Even when a man is killed?
M: The calamity is of the killer.
Q: Still, it seems there are two worlds, mine and
yours.
M: Mine is real, yours is of the mind.
Q: Imagine a rock and a hole in the rock and a frog
in the hole. The frog may spend its life in perfect
bliss, undistracted, undisturbed. Outside the rock the
world goes on. If the frog in the hole were told about
the outside world, he would say: 'There is no such
thing. My world is of peace and bliss. Your world is a
word structure only, it has no existence'. It is the
79
K: Hogyan kell tkelni?
M: Lsd a vilgodat olyannak, amilyen, s ne
amilyennek kpzeled. A megklnbztets
prtatlansghoz vezet, a prtatlansg a helyes
cselekvst biztostja; a helyes cselekvs bels hidat
pt valdi ltedhez. A cselekedet a bizonytka a
komolysgnak. Tedd, ahogy elmondtad gondosan,
hitelesen s minden akadly el fog tnni.
K: Boldog vagy?
M: A te vilgodban a legnyomorultabb lennk.
Felkelni, enni, beszlni, jra aludni micsoda
unalom.
K: Teht mg lni sem akarsz?
M: lni, meghalni micsoda rtelmetlen szavak
ezek. Amikor lnek ltsz engem, halott vagyok.
Amikor gy gondolod, halott vagyok, akkor lek.
Micsoda zavaros vagy.
K: Hogyan lehetsz ilyen semleges? A vilg sszes
szomorsga mintha semmi lenne szmodra.
M: n tkletesen tudatban vagyok a
gondjaitoknak.
K: Aztn mit teszel ellenk?
M: Semmit nem kell tennem. A gondok jnnek, s
mennek.
K: Tvoznak, pusztn azrt, mert figyelmet adsz
nekik?
M: Igen. A nehzsg lehet testi, emocionlis vagy
mentlis; de minden esetben individulis. A nagy
lptk szerencstlensgekben szmtalan egyni
sors sszegzdik, s lecsillapodsukhoz id kell. De
a hall sohasem szerencstlensg.
K: Mg akkor sem, ha meglnek valakit?
M: A szerencstlensg a gyilkost ri.
K: Mgiscsak gy tnik, hogy az enym s a tid kt
kln vilg.
M: Az enym valdi, a tied az elm.
K: Kpzelj el egy kvet, abban egy reget, s egy
bkt az regben. Lehet, hogy a bka az egsz
lett tkletes boldogsgban, zavartalanul,
nyugalmasan li. A kvn kvl a vilg megy a maga
tjn. Ha az regi bka hallana a kls vilgrl, azt
mondan: Nincs semmi ilyesmi. Az n vilgom
bks s boldog. A te vilgod csak szavakbl ll
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
same with you. When you tell us that our world
simply does not exist, there is no common ground
for discussion. Or, take another example. I go to a
doctor and complain of stomach ache. He examines
me and says: 'You are all right'. 'But it pains' I say.
'Your pain is mental' he asserts. I say 'It does not
help me to know that my pain is mental. You are a
doctor, cure me of my pain. If you cannot cure me,
you are not my doctor.'
M: Quite right.
Q: You have built the railroad, but for lack of a
bridge no train can pass. Build the bridge.
M: There is no need of a bridge.
Q: There must be some link between your world and K: Kell, hogy legyen valamilyen kapcsolat a te
mine. vilgod s az enym kztt.
M: There is no need of a link between a real world
and an imaginary world, for there cannot be any.
Q: So what are we to do?
M: Investigate your world, apply your mind to it,
examine it critically, scrutinise every idea about it;
that will do.
Q: The world is too big for investigation. All I know is K: A vilg tl nagy egy ilyen vizsgldshoz. Csak
that I am the world is, the world troubles me and I
trouble the world.
M: My experience is that everything is bliss. But the
desire for bliss creates pain. Thus bliss becomes the
seed of pain. The entire universe of pain is born of
desire. Give up the desire for pleasure and you will
not even know what is pain.
Q: Why should pleasure be the seed of pain?
M: Because for the sake of pleasure you are
committing many sins. And the fruits of sin are
suffering and death.
Q: You say the world is of no use to us -- only a
tribulation. I feel it cannot be so. God is not such a
fool. The world seems to me a big enterprise for
bringing the potential into actual, matter into life, the
unconscious into full awareness. To realise the
supreme we need the experience of the opposites.
Just as for building a temple we need stone and
mortar, wood and iron, glass and tiles, so for making
a man into a divine sage, a master of life and death,
one needs the material of every experience. As a
woman goes to the market, buys provisions of every
80
szerkezet, nem ltez dolog. Veled is ugyanezt a
helyzet. Amikor azt mondod, hogy a mi vilgunk
egyszeren nem ltezik, a vitnknak nincs kzs
alapja. Vagy vegynk msik pldt. Elmegyek az
orvoshoz, s elpanaszolom, hogy fj a gyomrom. Az
orvos megvizsgl, s azt mondja: n egszsges.
De ht fj. mondom. Az n fjdalma mentlis
jelenti ki a doktor. n azt mondom, hogy nem segt,
hogy tudom, hogy a fjdalmam mentlis. n orvos,
szntesse meg a fjdalmat. Ha nem tud
meggygytani, akkor n nem az n orvosom.
M: Igazad van.
K: Felptetted a vasutat, de hd nlkl a vonat nem
tud tovbbmenni. ptsd fel a hidat.
M: Nincs szksg hdra.
M: Nincs szksg kapcsolatra a valdi vilg s egy
kpzelt vilg kztt, mert nem is lehet semmilyen.
K: Akkor mit kell tennnk?
M: Tanulmnyozd a vilgodat, fordtsd fel az
elmdet, vizsgld fell kritikusan, ellenriz minden
rla szl idet; ez megteszi.
azt tudom, hogy n vagyok, a vilg van, a vilg
zavar engem, s n zavarom a vilgot.
M: Az n tapasztalatom szerint minden boldogsg.
De a boldogsg irnti vgy fjdalmat teremt. gy a
boldogsg a fjdalom csrjv vlik. A fjdalom
egsz univerzuma vgybl szletett. Add fel az
rm irnti vgyat, s mg csak tudni sem fogd,
hogy mi a fjdalom.
K: Az rmnek mirt kellene a fjdalom csrjnak
lennie?
M: Azrt, mert az rm kedvrt sok bnt kvetsz el.
s a bn gymlcse szenveds s hall.
K: Azt mondod, hogy a vilgnak nincs haszna
szmunkra gytrelem csupn. n gy rzem, hogy
ez nem lehet gy. Isten nem ilyen bolond. A vilg
szmomra egy nagy vllalkozsnak tnik, amelynek
a clja, hogy a lehetsgest aktuliss tegye, az
anyagba letet hozzon, a tudattalant teljesen
tudatoss tegye. A legfelsbb felismershez meg
kell ismernnk az ellentteket. Mint ahogy a
templom ptshez kre, habarcsra, fra, vasra,
vegre s cserpre van szksg, gy ahhoz, hogy
az ember isteni blcsessgre tegyen szert, ura
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
sort, comes home, cooks, bakes and feeds her lord,
so we bake ourselves nicely in the fire of life and
feed our God.
M: Well, if you think so, act on it. Feed your God, by
all means.
Q: A child goes to school and learns many things,
which will be of no use to it later. But in the course of
learning it grows. So do we pass through
experiences without number and forget them all, but
in the meantime we grow all the time. And what is a
gnani but a man with a genius for reality. This world
of mine cannot be an accident. It makes sense,
there must be a plan behind it. My God has a plan.
M: If the world is false, then the plan and its creator
are also false.
Q: Again, you deny the world. There is no bridge
between us.
M: There is no need of a bridge. Your mistake lies in
your belief that you are born. You were never born
nor will you ever die, but you believe that you were
born at a certain date and place and that a particular
body is your own.
Q: The world is, I am. These are facts.
M: Why do you worry about the world before taking
care of yourself? You want to save the world, don't
you? Can you save the world before saving
yourself? And what means being saved? Saved
from what? From illusion. Salvation is to see things
as they are. I really do not see myself related to
anybody and anything. Not even to a self, whatever
that self may be. I remain forever -- undefined. I am -
- within and beyond -- intimate and unapproachable.
Q: How did you come to it?
M: By my trust in my Guru. He told me 'You alone
are' and I did not doubt him. I was merely puzzling
over it, until I realised that it is absolutely true.
Q: Conviction by repetition?
M: By self-realisation. I found that I am conscious
and happy absolutely and only by mistake I thought I
owed being consciousness-bliss to the body and the
world of bodies.
Q: You are not a learned man. You have not read
81
legyen letnek s hallnak, a mindent tapasztals
anyagra van szksg. Ahogy az asszony elmegy a
piacra, vsrol mindenfle lelmiszert, hazamegy,
fz, st, s megeteti urt, gy stjk ki magunkat
szpen az let tzn, s etetjk meg a mi Urunkat.
M: Nos, ha te gy gondolod, tgy eszerint. Etesd
Uradat, csak rajta.
K: A gyermek iskolba jr, s sok olyan dolgot tanul,
amelyeknek semmi haszna ksbb. De a tanulsi
folyamat sorn fejldik. gy megynk t mi is
szmtalan tapasztalaton s felejtjk el mindet, de
kzben llandan gyarapszunk. s mi ms a gnani,
ha nem egy olyan ember, aki valsg irnt klns
tehetsggel br? A vilgunk nem lehet vletlen
mve. rtelemmel br, muszj, hogy legyen egy terv
mgtte. Az n Istenem rendelkezik tervvel.
M: Ha a vilg hamis, akkor a terv s annak teremtje
szintn hamis.
K: Megint tagadod a vilgot. Nincs meg a hd
kzttnk.
M: Nem kell hd. Ott hibzol, hogy azt hiszed, hogy
szlettl. Te sohasem szlettl, soha nem is fogsz
meghalni, de te azt hiszed, hogy megszlettl egy
bizonyos idben s helyen, s hogy ez a konkrt
test a sajtod.
K: A vilg van, n vagyok. Ezek tnyek.
M: Mirt aggdsz a vilg miatt, ahelyett, hogy
magaddal trdnl? Meg akarod menteni a vilgot,
ugye? Meg tudod menteni a vilgot, mieltt magadat
megmentend? s mit jelent megmenteni?
Megmenteni, mitl? Az illzitl. A megvlts azt
jelenti, hogy gy ltni a dolgokat, ahogyan azok
vannak. n valban nem ltom magam
kapcsolatban llnak senkivel s semmivel. Mg az
nnel sem, brmi is az n. n maradok rkk
meghatrozatlan. n bell s tl intim s
megkzelthetetlen vagyok.
K: Ezt hogyan rted el?
M: A Gurumba vetett hitem ltal. azt mondta
nekem, Egyedl te vagy, s n nem ktelkedtem
benne. Egsz egyszeren addig tprengtem fltte,
mg fel nem ismertem, hogy ez az abszolt igazsg.
K: Ismtelgetssel trtn meggyzs?
M: n-felismerssel. gy talltam, hogy tudatos
vagyok, s abszolte boldog, s csak tvedsbl
gondoltam, hogy a boldogsgtudatrt a testnek s a
testek vilgnak tartozom.
K: Te nem vagy egy tanult ember. Nem sokat
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
much and what you read, or heard did perhaps not
contradict itself. I am fairly well educated and have
read a lot and I found that books and teachers
contradict each other hopelessly. Hence whatever I
read or hear, I take it in a state of doubt. 'It may be
so, it may not be so' is my first reaction. And as my
mind is unable to decide what is true and what is
not, I am left high and dry with my doubts. In Yoga a
doubting mind is at a tremendous disadvantage.
M: I am glad to hear it; but my Guru too taught me to
doubt -- everything and absolutely. He said: 'deny
existence to everything except your self.' Through
desire you have created the world with its pains and
pleasures.
Q: Must it be also painful?
M: What else? By its very nature pleasure is limited
and transitory. Out of pain desire is born, in pain it
seeks fulfilment, and it ends in the pain of frustration
and despair. Pain is the background of pleasure, all
seeking of pleasure is born in pain and ends in pain.
Q: All you say is clear to me. But when some K: Minden amirl beszlsz, vilgos. De amikor
physical or mental trouble comes, my mind goes dull valamilyen testi s mentlis bajom tmad, elmm
and grey, or seeks frantically for relief. eltompul s lehangoldik vlik, vagy
ktsgbeesetten enyhlst keres.
M: What does it matter? It is the mind that is dull or
restless, not you. Look, all kinds of things happen in
this room. Do I cause them to happen? They just
happen. So it is with you -- the roll of destiny unfolds
itself and actualises the inevitable. You cannot
change the course of events, but you can change
your attitude and what really matters is the attitude
and not the bare event. The world is the abode of
desires and fears. You cannot find peace in it. For
peace you must go beyond the world. The root
cause of the world is self-love. Because of it we
seek pleasure and avoid pain. Replace self-love by
love of the Self and the picture changes. Brahma the
Creator is the sum total of all desires. The world is
the instrument for their fulfilment. Souls take
whatever pleasure they desire and pay for them in
tears. Time squares all accounts. The law of balance
reigns supreme.
Q: To be a superman one must be a man first.
Manhood is the fruit of innumerable experiences:
Desire drives to experience. Hence at its own time
and level desire is right.
82
olvastl, s amit olvastl is, vagy hallottl, lehet,
hogy nem voltak elg ellentmondsosak. Nekem
meglehetsen magas a kpzettsgem, sokat
olvastam, s gy tallom, hogy a knyvek s a
tantk remnytelenl ellentmondanak egymsnak.
Ebbl ereden brmit olvasok vagy hallok,
ktkedssel fogadom. Lehet, hogy gy van, lehet,
hogy nem gy van, ez az els reakcim. s mivel
az elmm kptelen eldnteni, hogy mi igaz, s mi
nem, fakpnl hagy a ktelkedsemmel egytt. A
Yogban a ktelked elme rettenetesen nagy
htrny.
M: rmmel hallom; de az n Gurum megtantott
engem ktelkedni is mindenben, s teljes
mrtkben. Azt mondta: tagadd mindennek a
ltezst, kivve nedt. Vgyak ltal teremtetted a
vilgot, annak minden fjdalmval s rmvel.
K: Fjdalommal is kell jrnia?
M: Mivel mssal? Valdi termszete szerint az rm
korltozott s mlkony. A fjdalombl szletett
vgy a fjdalomban keres beteljesedst, s a
frusztrci s ktsgbeess fjdalmban r vget.
Fjdalom a httere az rmnek, az sszes rm
keress fjdalomban szletik, s fjdalomban r
vget.
M: Mit szmt? Az elme az, ami tompa vagy
nyugtalan, nem te. Nzd, ebben a szobban
mindenfle dolgok trtnnek. n vagyok az oka a
megtrtnsknek? Csak gy megtrtnnek. gy
van ez veled is a sors gombolyaga legombolytja
nmagt, s megvalstja az elkerlhetetlent. Nem
vltoztathatod meg az esemnyek menett, de a
hozzllsodon vltoztathatsz, s ami valjban
szmt, az az attitd, s nem a puszta tny. A vilg
vgyaknak s flelmeknek a lakhelye. Nem
lelhetsz benne bkt. A bkhez meg kell haladnod
a vilgot. A vilg soka az egoizmus. Emiatt
keressk az rmet, s kerljk a fjdalmat. Cserld
ki az egoizmust az n szeretetvel, s a kp
megvltozik. Brahma a Teremt minden vgy
vgsszege. Beteljestsknek a vilg az eszkze.
Az emberi lnyek akrmilyen rmt megragadnak,
s knnyekkel fizetnek rte. Idvel minden szma
kiegyenltsre kerl. Az egyensly trvnynek
korltlan az uralma.
K: Hogy szupermen vljon belled, embernek kell
lenned elbb. Ember voltod megszmllhatatlan
tapasztalat gymlcse: a vgyak vezetnek a
tapasztalathoz. Ennlfogva, a maga idejben s
szintjn, a vgy helynval.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok

M: All this is true in a way. But a day comes when
you have amassed enough and must begin to build.
Then sorting out and discarding (viveka-vairagya)
are absolutely necessary. Everything must be
scrutinised and the unnecessary ruthlessly
destroyed. Believe me, there cannot be too much
destruction. For in reality nothing is of value. Be
passionately dispassionate -- that is all.
M: Mindez igaz, annyira-amennyire. De eljn a nap,
amikorra mr eleget halmoztl fel, s el kell kezdeni
az ptkezst. Ekkor a kivlogats s selejtezs
(viveka-vairagya) vlik abszolte szksgess.
Mindent meg kell vizsglni alaposan, s a
feleslegeset knyrtelenl el kell puszttani. Higgy
nekem, semmilyen pusztts nem lehet tl sok. Mert
valjban semminek nincs rtke. Lgy
szenvedlyesen szenvedlytelen ez minden.

24. God is the All-doer, the Gnani a Non- 24. Isten a mindent-tev, a Gnani a nem-
doer tev
Questioner: Some Mahatmas (enlightened beings) Krdez: Egyes Mahatmk (megvilgosodott
maintain that the world is neither an accident nor a szemlyek) azt a vlemnyt kpviselik, hogy a vilg
play of God, but the result and expression of a sem nem baleset, sem nem Isten jtka, hanem egy
mighty plan of work aiming at awakening and hatalmas, felbredst clz munkaterv eredmnye
developing consciousness throughout the universe. s kifejezse, s az egsz univerzumra kiterjed
From lifelessness to life, from unconsciousness to tudatossg fejleszts. Az lettelentl az let fel, a
consciousness, from dullness to bright intelligence, tudattalantl a tudatos fel, a tompasgtl a ragyog
from misapprehension to clarity -- that is the intelligencia fel, a flrertstl a vilgossg fel
direction in which the world moves ceaselessly and ez az az irny, amely szerint a vilg mozog,
relentlessly. Of course, there are moments of rest szakadatlanul s krlelhetetlenl. Termszetesen
and apparent darkness, when the universe seems to vannak pillanatai a nyugalomnak s a ltszlagos
be dormant, but the rest comes to an end and the sttsgnek, amikor az univerzum szunnyadni
work on consciousness is resumed. From our point ltszik, de a pihens a vghez r, s a
of view the world is a dale of tears, a place to tudatossgon vgzett munka jra kezddik. A mi
escape from, as soon as possible and by every nzpontunkbl a vilg siralomvlgy, egy hely,
possible means. To enlightened beings the world is ahonnan meneklni kell, amilyen gyorsan csak
good and it serves a good purpose. They do not lehet, s minden lehetsges mdon. A
deny that the world is a mental structure and that megvilgosodott lnyek szmra a vilg j, s j
ultimately all is one, but they see and say that the clokat szolgl. A maguk rszrl nem tagadjk,
structure has meaning and serves a supremely hogy a vilg egy mentlis struktra, s vgs soron
desirable purpose. What we call the will of God is minden egy, de gy ltjk s mondjk, hogy a
not a capricious whim of a playful deity, but the struktra rtelemmel br, s a legteljesebben
expression of an absolute necessity to grow in love kvnatos clt szolglja. Amit mi Isten akaratnak
and wisdom and power, to actualise the infinite neveznk, az nem egy jtszi istensg szeszlyes
potentials of life and consciousness. hbortja, hanem egy abszolt szksgszersg
kifejezdse a szeretetben, blcsessgben s
Just as a gardener grows flowers from a tiny seed to erben val fejldsre, az let s a tudatossg
glorious perfection, so does God in His own garden vgtelen lehetsgeinek a megvalstsra.
grow, among other beings, men to supermen, who
know and love and work along with Him. Ahogy a kertsz a kis virgmagbl ragyogan
tkletes virgokat nevel, gy neveli Isten az sajt
When God takes rest (pralaya), those whose growth kertjt, az egyb lnyek kztt az embert
was not completed, become unconscious for a time, szupermenn, aki Vele egytt tud, szeret s
while the perfect ones, who have gone beyond all munklkodik.
forms and contents of consciousness, remain aware
of the universal silence. When the time comes for Isten megpihensekor (pralaya) azok, akiknek a
the emergence of a new universe, the sleepers fejldse nem fejezdtt be, egy idre tudattalann
wake up and their work starts. The more advanced vlnak, mg azok, akik tkletesek, akik a
wake up first and prepare the ground for the less tudatossg sszes formjt s tartalmt
advanced -- who thus find forms and patterns of meghaladtk, tudatban maradnak az univerzlis
behaviour suitable for their further growth. csendnek. Amikor elrkezik egy j univerzum
ltrejttnek az ideje, az alvk felbrednek, s
Thus runs the story. The difference with your elkezdik a munkjukat. A fejlettebbek brednek fel
teaching is this: you insist that the world is no good elszr, s elksztik a talajt a kevsb fejlettek
and should be shunned. They say that distaste for szmra akik ily mdon megfelel formkat, s

83
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
the world is a passing stage, necessary, yet
temporary, and is soon replaced by an all-pervading
love, and a steady will to work with God.
Maharaj: All you say is right for the outgoing
(pravritti) path. For the path of return (nivritti)
naughting oneself is necessary. My stand I take
where nothing (paramakash) is; words do not reach
there, nor thoughts. To the mind it is all darkness
and silence. Then consciousness begins to stir and
wakes up the mind (chidakash), which projects the
world (mahadakash), built of memory and
imagination. Once the world comes into being, all
you say may be so. It is in the nature of the mind to
imagine goals, to strive towards them, to seek out
means and ways, to display vision, energy and
courage. These are divine attributes and I do not
deny them. But I take my stand where no difference
exists, where things are not, nor the minds that
create them. There I am at home. Whatever
happens, does not affect me -- things act on things,
that is all. Free from memory and expectation, I am
fresh, innocent and wholehearted. Mind is the great
worker (mahakarta) and it needs rest. Needing
nothing, I am unafraid. Whom to be afraid of? There
is no separation, we are not separate selves. There
is only one Self, the Supreme Reality, in which the
personal and the impersonal are one.
Q: All I want is to be able to help the world.
M: Who says you cannot help? You made up your
mind about what help means and needs and got
your self into a conflict between what you should
and what you can, between necessity and ability.
Q: But why do we do so?
M: Your mind projects a structure and you identify
yourself with it. It is in the nature of desire to prompt
the mind to create a world for its fulfilment. Even a
small desire can start a long line of action; what
about a strong desire? Desire can produce a
universe; its powers are miraculous. Just as a small
matchstick can set a huge forest on fire, so does a
desire light the fires of manifestation. The very
purpose of creation is the fulfilment of desire. The
desire may be noble, or ignoble, space (akash) is
neutral -- one can fill it with what one likes: You must
be very careful as to what you desire. And as to the
84
viselkedsi mintkat tallnak tovbbi
nvekedskhz.
gy szl a trtnet. Mi a klnbsg a te tantsodhoz
kpest? Te ragaszkodsz hozz, hogy a vilg nem j,
s el kell belle meneklni. k viszont azt mondjk,
hogy a vilgtl val irtzs ml llapot, szksges,
de ideiglenes, s nemsokra felvltja a mindent
betlt szeretet, s az Istennel val munklkods
szilrd akarata.
Maharaj: Amirl beszlsz, a kifel vezet (pravritti)
tra igaz. A visszafel vezet (nivritti) thoz
hanyatls szksges. n ott tartzkodom, ahol
semmi (paramakash) nincs, ahov nem rnek el
szavak, sem gondolatok. Az elme szmra ez teljes
sttsg s csend. Aztn a tudatossg megmoccan,
s az bred elme (chidakash) kivetti az
emlkezetbl s kpzelerbl felpl vilgot.
Amint a vilg megszletik, minden amit mondtl,
lehetsges. Az elmnek az a termszete, hogy
clokat kpzeljen el, feljk trekedve utakat s
mdokat keressen, vzikat, energit s btorsgot
nyilvntson meg. Ezek isteni attribtumok, s n ne
utastom el ket. De n ott tartzkodom, ahol nem
ltezik klnbsg, ahol nincsenek dolgok, sem elme,
ami ltrehozza ket. Ott az n otthonom. Akrmi
trtnik, az nem hat rm csak dolgok hatnak
dolgokra, semmi tbb. Emlkezettl s elvrstl
mentes, friss, rtatlan s szinte vagyok. Az elme
vgzi a nagy munkt (mahakarta), s neki van
szksge pihensre. Semmire nem lvn
szksgem, n flelem nlkli vagyok. Kitl kellene
flnem? Nincs elklnltsg, nem vagyunk
elklnltek. Csak egyetlen n van, a Legfelsbb
Realits, amelyben a szemly s a szemlytelen
egyek.
K: Csak azt akarom, hogy segthessek a vilgon.
M: Ki mondta, hogy nem segthetsz? Eldnttted,
hogy mit jelent a segtsg, s hogy milyen
segtsgre van szksg, s ellentmonds alakult ki
az amit kell, s amit lehet tenned, a szksges s a
lehetsges kztt.
K: De ht mirt tesszk ezt?
M: Elmd kivett egy struktrt, amivel azonostod
magad. Termszetnek megfelelen a vgy arra
sarkallja az elmt, hogy beteljeslse rdekben
teremtsen egy vilgot. Mg egy apr vgy is akcik
hossz sort indthatja el; mire kpesek akkor az
ers vgyak? A vgy univerzumot tud teremteni;
ereje csodval hatros. Ahogy egy kis gyufaszl
lngra tud lobbantani egy hatalmas erdt, gy
gyjtja meg a vgy a megnyilvnuls tzt. A
teremts valdi clja a vgy beteljestse. A vgy
lehet nemes, vagy alantas, a tr (akash) semleges
azzal tltheti fel az ember, amivel akarja: nagyon
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
people you want to help, they are in their respective
worlds for the sake of their desires; there is no way
of helping them except through their desires. You
can only teach them to have right desires so that
they may rise above them and be free from the urge
to create and re-create worlds of desires, abodes of
pain and pleasure.
Q: A day must come when the show is wound up; a
man must die, a universe come to an end.
M: Just as a sleeping man forgets all and wakes up
for another day, or he dies and emerges into another
life, so do the worlds of desire and fear dissolve and
disappear. But the universal witness, the Supreme
Self never sleeps and never dies. Eternally the
Great Heart beats and at each beat a new universe
comes into being.
Q: Is he conscious?
M: He is beyond all that the mind conceives. He is
beyond being and not being. He is the Yes and No
to everything, beyond and within, creating and
destroying, unimaginably real.
Q: God and the Mahatma are they one or two?
M: They are one.
Q: There must be some difference.
M: God is the All-Doer, the gnani is a non-doer. God
himself does not say: 'I am doing all.' To Him things
happen by their own nature. To the gnani all is done
by God. He sees no difference between God and
nature. Both God and the gnani know themselves to
be the immovable centre of the movable, the eternal
witness of the transient. The centre is a point of void
and the witness a point of pure awareness; they
know themselves to be as nothing, therefore nothing
can resist them.
Q: How does this look and feel in your personal
experience?
M: Being nothing, I am all. Everything is me,
everything is mine. Just as my body moves by my
mere thinking of the movement, so do things happen
as I think of them. Mind you, I do nothing. I just see
them happen.
Q: Do things happen as you want them to happen,
or do you want them to happen as they happen?
85
vatosnak kell lenned, hogy mire vgysz. s mivel
azok vilga, akiknek segteni akarsz, szintn az
vgyaik kedvrt van, nincs md, hogy segts nekik,
hacsak nem a vgyaikon keresztl. Csak azt
tanthatod meg velk, hogy a vgyaik legyenek
helyesek, gy azok fl emelkedhetnek, s
megszabadulhatnak attl a srgetstl, hogy meg-
s jrateremtsk vgyaik vilgt, a fjdalom s rm
tartzkodsi helyt.
K: El kell, hogy jjjn a nap, amikor az elads
vget r; az embernek meg kell halnia, a vilg vget
r.
M: Ahogy az alv ember is mindent elfelejt, s egy
msik napra bred, vagy meghal s egy msik
letben jelenik meg, ppgy a vgy s flelem
vilga is szertefoszlik s eltnik. De az univerzlis
tan, a Legfelsbb n soha nem alszik, s soha
nem hal meg. A Nagy Szv rkk dobog, s minden
dobbanskor egy j vilg szletik.
K: tudatos?
M: tl van mindenen, amit az elme felfogni kpes.
Tl van lten s nemlten. az Igen s a Nem
mindenre, a tl s a bell, a teremts s a pusztts,
a felfoghatatlan valsg.
K: Isten s a Mahatma egyek, vagy klnbzk?
M: Egyek.
K: Kell, hogy legyen valamilyen klnbsg.
M: Isten a Mindent-Tev, a gnani a nem-tev. Isten
nem mondja: n csinlok mindent. Az szmra a
dolgok sajt termszetk szerint trtnnek. A gnani
szerint mindent Isten csinl. nem lt klnbsget
Isten s a termszet kztt. Isten is, a gnani is, a
mozdthat mozdulatlan kzpontjnak tudja magt,
a muland rk tanjnak. A kzppont az ressg
egy pontja, s a tan a tiszta bersg egy pontja;
semminek tudjk magukat, ezrt nem llhat ellenk
semmi.
K: Ezt hogyan ltod s rzed a szemlyes
tapasztalataid alapjn?
M: Semmi lvn, minden vagyok. Minden n
vagyok, minden az enym. Ahogy a testem is a
puszta mozgsra gondolsom miatt mozog, gy a
dolgok is azrt trtnnek, mert n rjuk gondolok.
Jegyezd meg, n semmit nem teszek. n csak
figyelem, ahogy megtrtnnek.
K: A dolgok gy trtnnek, ahogyan te akarod, hogy
trtnjenek, vagy azt akarod, hogy trtnjen, ami
trtnik?
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
M: Both. I accept and am accepted. I am all and all
is me. Being the world I am not afraid of the world.
Being all, what am I to be afraid of? Water is not
afraid of water, nor fire of fire. Also I am not afraid
because I am nothing that can experience fear, or
can be in danger. I have no shape, nor name. It is
attachment to a name and shape that breeds fear. I
am not attached. I am nothing, and nothing is afraid
of no thing. On the contrary, everything is afraid of
the Nothing, for when a thing touches Nothing, it
becomes nothing. It is like a bottomless well,
whatever falls into it, disappears.
Q: Isn't God a person?
M: As long as you think yourself to be a person, He
too is a person. When you are all, you see Him as
all.
Q: Can I change facts by changing attitude?
M: The attitude is the fact. Take anger. I may be
furious, pacing the room up and down; at the same
time I know what I am, a centre of wisdom and love,
an atom of pure existence. All subsides and the
mind merges into silence.
Q: Still, you are angry sometimes.
M: With whom am l to be angry and for what? Anger
came and dissolved on my remembering myself. It is
all a play of gunas (qualities of cosmic matter).
When I identify myself with them, I am their slave.
When I stand apart, I am their master.
Q: Can you influence the world by your attitude? By
separating yourself from the world you lose all hope
of helping it.
M: How can it be? All is myself -- can't I help myself? M: Hogy lenne ez lehetsges? Minden n vagyok
I do not identify myself with anybody in particular, for ne tudnk magamon segteni? Nem tekintem
I am all -- both the particular and the universal.
Q: Can you then help me, the particular person?
M: But I do help you always -- from within. My self
and your self are one. I know it, but you don't. That
is all the difference -- and it cannot last.
Q: And how do you help the entire world?
M: Gandhi is dead, yet his mind pervades the earth.
The thought of a gnani pervades humanity and
works ceaselessly for good. Being anonymous,
coming from within, it is the more powerful and
86
M: Mindkett. Elfogadok, s elfogadnak. Minden n
vagyok, s n vagyok minden. A vilg lvn, nem
flek a vilgtl. Minden lvn, mitl kellene flnem?
A vz nem fl a vztl, sem a tz a tztl. n sem
flek, mert semmi olyan nem vagyok, ami flelmet
tapasztalhatna, vagy veszlyben lehetne. Nekem
nincs se formm, se nevem. A nvhez s formhoz
val ragaszkods az, ami a flelmet okozza. n nem
ragaszkodom. n semmi vagyok, s a semmi nem
fl a semmitl. Ezzel szemben, minden fl a
Semmitl, mert ami megrinti a Semmit, az semmiv
vlik. Ez egy feneketlen reghez hasonlt, minden
eltnik, ami beleesik.
K: Isten nem szemly?
M: Ameddig te szemlynek gondolod magad, is
szemly. Amikor te minden vagy, akkor t is
mindennek ltod.
K: Megvltoztathatom a tnyeket az attitd
megvltoztatsval?
M: Az attitd a tny. Vegyk a dht. Lehetek
dhs, fel s al jrklva a szobban; kzben
tudom, hogy mi vagyok, a blcsessg s szeretet
kzppontja, a tiszta ltezs egy atomja. Minden
lecsillapodik, s az elme egybeolvad a csenddel.
K: Te mgis dhs vagy idnknt.
M: Kire lennk dhs, s mirt? Az indulat jn, s az
nmagra emlkez n miatt szertefoszlik. Ez mind
a gunk (kozmikus anyag minsgek) jtka. Amikor
azonostom magamat velk, szolgjuk vagyok.
Amikor kln llok tlk, mesterk vagyok.
K: Be tudod folysolni a vilgot az attitdd ltal? A
vilgtl val elklnlseddel elveszted minden
remnyt, hogy segtesz rajta.
magam egynnek, mert n minden vagyok mind
az egyedi, mind az univerzlis.
K: Akkor segteni tudsz nekem, az egyedi
szemlynek?
M: De ht n folyamatosan segtelek bellrl. Az
n nem s a te ned egyek. n tudom ezt, de te
nem. Ez az sszes klnbsg s ez nem lehet
maradand.
K: s hogyan segted a vilg egszt?
M: Gandhi meghalt, elmje mgis thatja a fldet. A
gnani gondolata thatja az emberisget, s
szntelenl dolgozik a jrt. Nvtelenknt, bellrl
jvknt, ez a leghatalmasabb s leginkbb
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
compelling. That is how the world improves -- the
inner aiding and blessing the outer. When a gnani
dies, he is no more, in the same sense in which a
river is no more when it merges in the sea, the
name, the shape, are no more, but the water
remains and becomes one with the ocean. When a
gnani joins the universal mind, all his goodness and
wisdom become the heritage of humanity and uplift
every human being.
Q: We are attached to our personality. Our
individuality, our being unlike others, we value very
much. You seem to denounce both as useless. Your
unmanifested, of what use is it to us?
M: Unmanifested, manifested, individuality,
personality (nirguna, saguna, vyakta, vyakti); all
these are mere words, points of view, mental
attitudes. There is no reality in them. The real is
experienced in silence. You cling to personality --
but you are conscious of being a person only when
you are in trouble -- when you are not in trouble you
do not think of yourself.
Q: You did not tell me the uses of the Unmanifested. K: Nem beszltl a Megnyilvnulatlan hasznrl.
M: Surely, you must sleep in order to wake up. You
must die in order to live, you must melt down to
shape anew. You must destroy to build, annihilate
before creation. The Supreme is the universal
solvent, it corrodes every container, it burns through
every obstacle. Without the absolute denial of
everything the tyranny of things would be absolute.
The Supreme is the great harmoniser, the guarantee
of the ultimate and perfect balance -- of life in
freedom. It dissolves you and thus re-asserts your
true being.
Q: It is all well on its own level. But how does it work K: Mindez rendben van, a sajt szintjn. De hogy
in daily life?
M: The daily life is a life of action. Whether you like it
or not, you must function. Whatever you do for your
own sake accumulates and becomes explosive; one
day it goes off and plays havoc with you and your
world. When you deceive yourself that you work for
the good of all, it makes matters worse, for you
should not be guided by your own ideas of what is
good for others. A man who claims to know what is
good for others, is dangerous.
Q: How is one to work then?
M: Neither for yourself nor for others, but for the
work's own sake. A thing worth doing is its own
purpose and meaning, Make nothing a means to
something else. Bind not. God does not create one
thing to serve another. Each is made for its own
87
ellenllhatatlan. A vilg ilyen mdon javul a bels
segti, s ldsban rszesti a klst. Amikor egy
gnani meghal, nincs tbb, ugyanabban az
rtelemben, ahogy egy foly sincs tbb, amikor
beleolvad a tengerbe, a neve, a formja nincsenek
tbb, de a vz megmarad, s eggy vlik az
cennal. Amikor egy gnani egyesl az univerzlis
elmvel, minden jsga s blcsessge az
emberisg rksgv vlik, s felemel minden
emberi lnyt.
K: Ktdnk szemlyisgnkhz. Egynisgnk,
ltnk eltr msoktl, nagyon nagyra rtkeljk.
gy ltszik, te mindkettt denuncilod, mint
haszontalant. A tied megnyilvnulatlan, mi haszna
ennek a mi szmunkra?
M: Megnyilvnulatlan, megnyilvnult, egynisg,
szemlyisg (nirguna, saguna, vyakta, vyakti);
mindezek csupn szavak, nzpontok, mentlis
attitdk. Nincs realitsuk. A valsg csendben
tapasztalhat meg. Kapaszkodsz a szemlyisgbe
de csak akkor vagy tudatban a szemly ltnek,
amikor bajban vagy amikor nem vagy bajban nem
gondolsz nmagadra.
M: Nyilvnvalan aludnod kell, hogy flbredj
lmodbl. Meg kell, hogy halj, hogy lj, fel kell, hogy
olvadj, hogy j formt nyerj. Rombolnod kell, hogy
pts, puszttanod kell, mieltt teremtesz. A
Legfelsbb az univerzlis felold, korrodl minden
ednyt, get t minden akadlyt. A mindennek az
abszolt tagadsa nlkl a dolgok zsarnoksga
vlna korltlann. A Legfelsbb a nagy
harmoniztor, a vgs s tkletes egyensly
biztostka a szabad let. Felold tged, s ezzel
jra megersti igazi ltedet.
mkdik ez napi szinten?
M: A napi let a cselekvs lete. Kedveled vagy
sem, funkcionlnod kell. Brmit teszel a sajt
kedvedrt, az akkumulldik, s robbananyagg
vlik; egy nap elszabadul, s nagy rombolst visz
vgbe benned s a vilgban. Ha azzal mtod
magad, hogy mindenki javrt dolgozol, az
slyosbtja a dolgot, mert nem ideid ltal kellene
msokat a jra vezetned. Aki jogot forml r, hogy
tudja, mi a j msoknak, veszlyes ember.
K: Ht akkor hogyan dolgozzon az ember?
M: Nem nmagadrt, nem is msokrt, hanem
magnak a munknak a kedvrt. Egy dolog rtkt
sajt clja s rtelme teszi. Ne tulajdonts
jelentsget semmi msnak. Ne kapcsolj hozz
semmit. Isten az egyik dolgot nem egy msik
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
sake. Because it is made for itself, it does not
interfere. You are using things and people for
purposes alien to them and you play havoc with the
world and yourself.
Q: Our real being is all the time with us, you say.
How is it that we do not notice it?
M: Yes, you are always the Supreme. But your
attention is fixed on things, physical or mental. When
your attention is off a thing and not yet fixed on
another, in the interval you are pure being. When
through the practice of discrimination and
detachment (viveka-vairagya), you lose sight of
sensory and mental states, pure being emerges as
the natural state.
Q: How does one bring to an end this sense of
separateness?
M: By focussing the mind on 'I am', on the sense of
being, 'I am so-and-so' dissolves; "I am a witness
only" remains and that too submerges in 'I am all'.
Then the all becomes the One and the One --
yourself, not to be separate from me. Abandon the
idea of a separate 'I' and the question of 'whose
experience?' will not arise.
Q: You speak from your own experience. How can I
make it mine?
M: You speak of my experience as different from
your experience, because you believe we are
separate. But we are not. On a deeper level my
experience is your experience. Dive deep within
yourself and you will find it easily and simply. Go in
the direction of 'I am'.
25. Hold on to I am
Questioner: Are you ever glad or sad? Do you
know joy and sorrow?
Maharaj: Call them as you please. To me they are
states of mind only, and I am not the mind.
Q: Is love a state of mind?
M: Again, it depends what you mean by love. Desire
is, of course, a state of mind. But the realisation of
unity is beyond mind. To me, nothing exists by itself.
All is the Self, all is myself. To see myself in
everybody and everybody in myself most certainly is
love.
Q: When I see something pleasant, I want it. Who
88
szolglatra teremti. Minden nmagrt van. Mivel
nmagrt van, nem okoz zavart. A dolgokat s
embereket tlk idegen clokra hasznlod, s nagy
rombolst viszel vgbe a vilgban, s magadban.
K: Valdi lnynk llandan velnk van, azt
mondod. Hogy van az, hogy nem vesszk t szre?
M: Igen, te mindig a Legfelsbb vagy. De figyelmed
a dolgokra irnyul, legyenek azok testiek vagy
mentlisak. Amikor a figyelmed elvondik egy
dologrl, s mg nem irnyul egy msikra, abban az
idkzben tiszta ltezs vagy. Amikor a
megklnbztets s prtatlansg (viveka-vairagya)
gyakorlsval elveszted az rzkek s mentlis
llapotok ltst, a tiszta lt termszetes llapota
jelenik meg.
K: Hogyan vethet vget az ember az elklnls
rzkelsnek?
M: Elmjnek a vagyok-ra, a lt rzkelsre
fkuszlsval az ez-s-ez vagyok megsznik; ami
marad, az az n tan vagyok csupn, majd az is
almerl az n minden vagyok -ba. Ekkor a minden
az Eggy vlik, s az Egy nmagadd, amely nem
klnbzik tlem. Add fel a klnll n idejt, s
a kinek a tapasztalata? krds nem fog felmerlni.
K: Te nnn tapasztalatod alapjn beszlsz. Hogy
tehetnm azt magamv?
M: Azrt mondod, hogy az n tapasztalatom
klnbzik a tidtl, mert azt hiszed, hogy
klnbzk vagyunk. De nem vagyunk azok. Egy
mlyebb szinten az n tapasztalatom a te
tapasztalatod. Ugorj mlyfejest nmagadba, s meg
fogod azt tallni, knnyen s egyszeren. Haladj a
vagyok irnyba.
25. Ragaszkodj az n vagyok-hoz
Krdez: Szoktl-e boldog, vagy szomor lenni?
Ismered-e az rmet s a bnatot?
Maharaj: Nevezd ahogy tetszik. Szmomra ezek
csak elmellapotok, s nem vagyok az elme.
K: A szeretet elmellapot?
M: Mint mr mondtam, ez attl fgg, mit rtesz
szeretet alatt. A vgy, termszetesen, elmellapot.
De az egysg megvalstsa tl van az elmn.
Szmomra semmi nem ltezik nmagtl. Minden
az n, minden n vagyok. Ltni nmagamat
mindenben, s mindent nmagamban, a
legktsgtelenebb szeretet.
K: Ha valamit kellemesnek tallok, akkor kvnom.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
exactly wants it? The self or the mind?
M: The question is wrongly put. There is no 'who'.
There is desire, fear, anger, and the mind says --
this is me, this is mine. There is no thing which could
be called 'me' or 'mine'. Desire is a state of the mind,
perceived and named by the mind. Without the mind
perceiving and naming, where is desire?
Q: But is there such a thing as perceiving without
naming?
M: Of course. Naming cannot go beyond the mind,
while perceiving is consciousness itself.
Q: When somebody dies what exactly happens?
M: Nothing happens. Something becomes nothing.
Nothing was, nothing remains.
Q: Surely there is a difference between the living K: Biztos, hogy van klnbsg az l s a halott
and the dead. You speak of the living as dead and of kztt. Te gy beszlsz az lrl, mintha halott, s a
the dead as living. halottrl, mint l lenne.
M: Why do you fret at one man dying and care little
for the millions dying every day? Entire universes
are imploding and exploding every moment -- am I
to cry over them? One thing is quite clear to me: all
that is, lives and moves and has its being in
consciousness and I am in and beyond that
consciousness. I am in it as the witness. I am
beyond it as Being.
Q: Surely, you care when your child is ill, don't you?
M: I don't get flustered. I just do the needful. I do not
worry about the future. A right response to every
situation is in my nature. I do not stop to think what
to do. I act and move on. Results do not affect me. I
do not even care, whether they are good or bad.
Whatever they are, they are -- if they come back to
me, I deal with them afresh. Or, rather, I happen to
deal with them afresh. There is no sense of purpose
in my doing anything. Things happens as they
happen -- not because I make them happen, but it is
because I am that they happen. In reality nothing
ever happens. When the mind is restless, it makes
Shiva dance, like the restless waters of the lake
make the moon dance. It is all appearance, due to
wrong ideas.
Q: Surely, you are aware of many things and
behave according to their nature. You treat a child
as a child and an adult as an adult.
89
Ki az, pontosan, aki megkvnja? Az n vagy az
elme?
M: Rosszul tetted fel krdst. Nincs olyan, hogy ki.
Ami van az a vgy, a flelem, a dh, s az elme azt
mondja ez n vagyok, ez az enym. Nincs olyan
dolog, amelyet gy nevezhetnnk, hogy n vagy
enym. A vgy az elmnek az elme ltal rzkelt
s elnevezett llapota. Az rz s elnevez elme
nlkl hol a vgy?
K: Van-e olyan dolog, mint rzkels, elnevezs
nlkl?
M: Termszetesen. Az elnevezs nem mehet tl az
elmn, mg az rzkels a tudatossg maga.
K: Amikor valaki meghal, mi trtnik pontosan?
M: Semmi nem trtnik. Valami semmiv vlik.
Semmi volt, semmi maradt.
M: Mirt nyugtalantod magad egy ember halla
miatt, mikzben azzal kevss trdsz, hogy millik
halnak naponta? Teljes vilgok robbannak be s
robbannak ki, minden pillanatban srnom kellene
miattuk? Egy dolog teljesen vilgos szmomra:
minden, ami l s mozog, a tudatossgban ltezik,
s n ezen tudatossgon bell, s tl vagyok. Bell
vagyok, mint tan. Tl vagyok rajta, mint Lt.
K: Biztos tged is aggaszt, amikor a gyermeked
beteg, nem?
M: Nem nyugtalant. Csak teszem, amit szksges.
Nem aggdom a jv miatt. Az letmkdsem
minden helyzetre tartalmazza a helyes vlaszt. Nem
llok meg azon gondolkodni, hogy mit tegyek.
Cselekszem, s haladok tovbb. A kvetkezmnyek
nem hatnak rm. Mg csak az sem rdekel, hogy
jk, vagy rosszak-e. Brmik is legyenek, vannak
ha visszatrnek, ismt foglalkozom velk. Jobban
mondva, ismt megtrtnik, hogy velk foglalkozom.
Nincs cltudatossg semmilyen cselekvsemben. A
dolgok trtnnek, ahogy trtnnek nem azrt
trtnnek meg, mert n megtrtntt teszem ket,
hanem azrt, mert n az vagyok. Valjban soha
semmi nem trtnik. Amikor az elme nyugtalan,
akkor Shiva-tnct jrja, hasonlan a thoz,
amelynek nyugtalan vizn tncot jr a hold. Mindez
ltszat, amely a helytelen ideknak tulajdonthat.
K: Te bizonyra tudatban vagy szmos dolognak,
s az termszetk szerint viselkedsz. A gyerekkel
gyerekknt bnsz, s a felnttel felnttknt.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
M: Just as the taste of salt pervades the great ocean
and every single drop of sea-water carries the same
flavour, so every experience gives me the touch of
reality, the ever fresh realisation of my own being.
Q: Do I exist in your world, as you exist in mine?
M: Of course, you are and I am. But only as points in
consciousness; we are nothing apart from
consciousness. This must be well grasped: the world
hangs on the thread of consciousness; no
consciousness, no world.
Q: There are many points in consciousness; are
there as many worlds?
M: Take dream for an example. In a hospital there
may be many patients, all sleeping, all dreaming,
each dreaming his own private, personal dreams
unrelated, unaffected, having one single factor in
common -- illness. Similarly, we have divorced
ourselves in our imagination from the real world of
common experience and enclosed ourselves in a
cloud of personal desire and fears, images and
thoughts, ideas and concepts.
Q: This I can understand. But what could be the
cause of the tremendous variety of the personal
worlds?
M: The variety is not so great. All the dreams are
superimposed over a common world. To some
extent they shape and influence each other. The
basic unity operates in spite of all. At the root of it all
lies self-forgetfulness; not knowing who I am.
Q: To forget, one must know. Did I know who I am,
before I forgot it?
M: Of course. Self-forgetting is inherent in self-
knowing. Consciousness and unconsciousness are
two aspects of one life. They co-exist. To know the
world you forget the self -- to know the self you
forget the world. What is world after all? A collection
of memories. Cling to one thing, that matters, hold
on to 'I am' and let go all else. This is sadhana. In
realisation there is nothing to hold on to and nothing
to forget. Everything is known, nothing is
remembered.
Q: What is the cause of self-forgetting?
M: There is no cause, because there is no
forgetting. Mental states succeed one another, and
90
M: Mint ahogy a s ze tjrja a hatalmas cent, s
a tengervz minden cseppje ugyanazt az zt
hordozza, gy adja szmomra minden tapasztalat a
valsg rintst, rkk friss megvalstsaknt
sajt ltemnek.
K: Ltezem n a te vilgodban, mint ahogy te az
enymben?
M: Termszetesen, te vagy, s n vagyok. De csak
mint pontok a tudatossgban; semmik nem vagyunk
a tudatossgon nlkl. Ezt jl kell rteni: a vilg a
tudatossg crnaszln fgg; ha nincs tudatossg,
nincs vilg sem.
K: A tudatossgban sok pont van; ugyanannyi a
vilg is?
M: Vegyk az lmot, pldul. Egy krhz sok
betegnek mindegyike alszik s lmodik, mindegyik
a sajt egyni, szemlyes lmt lmodja, amelyek
nincsenek kapcsolatban egymssal, nincsenek
hatssal egymsra, egyetlen dolog kzs bennk
a betegsg. Hasonlkppen, mi is elvlasztottuk
magunkat kpzeletnkben a kzs tapasztalat vals
vilgtl, s bezrtuk magunkat a szemlyes vgyak
s flelmek, kpek s gondolatok, idek s
koncepcik felhjbe.
K: Ezt rtem. De mi lehet az oka a szemlyes
vilgok iszony sokflesgnek?
M: Nem olyan nagy a sokflesg. Minden egyes
lom egy kzs vilgra szuperponldik. Bizonyos
fokig formljk, s befolysoljk egymst. Az
alapvet egysg, mindennek ellenre, mkdik.
Mindennek a gykere az n-feleds; a nem tudsa
annak, hogy ki vagyok n.
K: Ahhoz, hogy felejthessen, tudnia kell az
embernek. Tudtam, hogy ki vagyok n, mieltt
elfelejtettem azt?
M: Termszetesen. Az n-felejts az ntudat
velejrja. A tudatossg s a tudattalansg
ugyanazon letnek a kt aspektusa. Egyms mellett
lteznek. A vilg megismershez elfelejted nedet
ned megismershez elfelejted a vilgot. Mi a
vilg, vgl is? Emlkek gyjtemnye. Kapaszkodj
az egyetlen dologba, ami szmt, ragaszkodj az n
vagyok-hoz, s engedj el minden mst. Ez a
sadhana. A megvalsulsban semmihez nem kell
ragaszkodni kell, s semmit nem kell elfelejteni.
Minden tuds, semmi nem emlk.
K: Mi az n-felejts oka?
M: Nincs ok, mert nincs felejts. Mentlis llapotok
kvetkeznek egymsra, s mindegyik elmossa az
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
each obliterates the previous one. Self-remembering elzt. Az n-emlkezs egy mentlis llapot, s az
is a mental state and self-forgetting is another. They n-elfelejts egy msik. Vltakoznak, mint a nappal
alternate like day and night. Reality is beyond both. s az jjel. A valsg mindkett fltt ll.
Q: Surely there must be a difference between
forgetting and not knowing. Not knowing needs no
cause. Forgetting presupposes previous knowledge
and also the tendency or ability to forget. I admit I
cannot enquire into the reason for not-knowing, but
forgetting must have some ground.
M: There is no such thing as not-knowing. There is
only forgetting. What is wrong with forgetting? It is
as simple to forget as to remember.
Q: Is it not a calamity to forget oneself?
M: As bad as to remember oneself continuously.
There is a state beyond forgetting and not-forgetting
-- the natural state. To remember, to forget -- these
are all states of mind, thoughtbound, word-bound.
Take for example, the idea of being born. I am told I
was born. I do not remember. I am told I shall die I
do not expect it. You tell me I have forgotten, or I
lack imagination. But I just cannot remember what
never happened, nor expect the patently impossible.
Bodies are born and bodies die, but what is it to me?
Bodies come and go in consciousness and
consciousness itself has its roots in me. I am life and
mine are mind and body.
Q: You say at the root of the world is self-
forgetfulness. To forget I must remember What did I
forget to remember? I have not forgotten that I am.
M: This 'I am' too may be a part of the illusion.
Q: How can it be? You cannot prove to me that I am
not. Even when convinced that I am not -- I am.
M: Reality can neither be proved nor disproved.
Within the mind you cannot, beyond the mind you
need not. In the real, the question 'what is real?'
does not arise. The manifested (saguna) and
unmanifested (nirguna) are not different.
Q: In that case all is real.
M: I am all. As myself all is real. Apart from me,
nothing is real.
Q: I do not feel that the world is the result of a
91
K: Biztosan kell, hogy legyen klnbsg a felejts s
a nem tuds kztt. A nem tudshoz nem
szksges ok. A felejts elzetes tudst
elfelttelez, s a felejtsre val hajlamot, vagy
kpessget is. Bevallom, nem tudom
megkrdjelezni a nem tuds gondolatt, de a
felejtsnek kell, hogy legyen valamilyen alapja.
M: Nincs olyan dolog, mint nem-tuds. Csak felejts
van. Mi rossz van a felejtsben? Ugyanolyan
egyszer felejteni, mint emlkezni.
K: Nem jelent csapst, ha valaki elfelejti nmagt?
M: Ugyanolyan rossz, mint folyamatosan emlkezni
nmagadra. Ltezik egy llapot a felejtsen s a
nem felejtsen tl a termszetes llapot.
Emlkezni, felejteni ezek mindketten az elme
gondolathoz kttt, szhoz kttt llapotai. Vegyk
pldul a szlets idejt. Azt mondtk, szlettem.
Nem emlkszem r. Azt mondtk, meg fogok halni.
Nem gondolom. Azt mondod, elfelejtettem, vagy
hjn vagyok a kpzeletnek. Pedig egyszeren csak
nem tudok visszaemlkezni arra, ami soha nem
trtnt meg, s nem tartom valsznnek a
nyilvnvalan lehetetlent. A testek szletnek, s a
testek meghalnak, de mit jelent ez szmomra? A
testek a tudatossgban jnnek s mennek, s a
tudatossgnak magnak a gykerei nbennem
vannak. n vagyok az let, s az elme s a test az
n tulajdonom.
K: Azt mondod, hogy a vilg gykernl az n-
elfelejts van. A felejtshez emlkeznem kell arra,
amire elfelejtek emlkezni? n soha nem felejtettem
el, hogy n vagyok.
M: Lehet, hogy az n vagyok is rsze az illzinak.
K: Ez hogyan lehetsges? Nem tudod nekem
bebizonytani, hogy nem vagyok. Mg ha
bebizonytand is, hogy nem vagyok n vagyok.
M: A valsg sem nem bizonythat, sem nem
cfolhat. Elmn bell nem lehetsges, az elmn
kvl nem szksges. A valdiban a mi valdi?
krds nem merl fel. A megnyilvnult (saguna) s a
megnyilvnulatlan (nirguna) nem klnbznek
egymstl.
K: Ilyenformn minden valdi.
M: n vagyok minden. nmagamknt minden
valdi. Engem kivve semmi nem valdi.
K: n nem gy rzem, hogy a vilg egy hiba
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
mistake. eredmnye.

M: You may say so only after a full investigation, not M: Ilyet csak egy teljes vizsglatot kveten
before. Of course, when you discern and let go all mondhatsz, nem eltte. Termszetesen, amikor
that is unreal, what remains is real. megltod a klnbsget, s eleresztesz mindent,
ami nem valdi, akkor csak a valdi marad.

Q: Does anything remain? K: Marad egyltaln valami?

M: The real remains. But don't be mislead by words. M: A valdi marad. De ne ltasd magad szavakkal.

Q: Since immemorial time, during innumerable K: Emberemlkezet ta, megszmllhatatlan

births, I build and improve and beautify my world. It szletsek sorozatn keresztl ptem, javtom s
is neither perfect, nor unreal. It is a process. szptem a vilgomat. Ami sem nem tkletes, sem
nem valszertlen. Ez egy folyamat.

M: You are mistaken. The world has no existence M: Tvedsz. Rajtad kvl nem ltezik a vilg. Minden
apart from you. At every moment it is but a reflection pillanatban csak nmagad tkrkpe. Te teremted,
of yourself. You create it, you destroy it. te puszttod.

Q: And build it again, improved. K: Aztn jra ptem, tkletesebbre.

M: To improve it, you must disprove it. One must die M: A tkletestshez cfolnod kell. Meg kell halnia
to live. There is no rebirth, except through death. az embernek, hogy ljen. Nincs jjszlets, csak
hall rvn.

Q: Your universe may be perfect. My personal K: A te vilgod lehet, hogy tkletes. Az n

universe is improving. szemlyes vilgom tkletesedik.

M: Your personal universe does not exist by itself. It M: A te szemlyes vilgod nem ltezik nmagtl.
is merely a limited and distorted view of the real. It is Pusztn csak egy korltozott, s torz kpe a
not the universe that needs improving, but your way valsgnak. Nem az univerzumot kell tkletesteni,
of looking. hanem a te ltsmdodat.

Q: How do you view it? K: Te milyennek ltod?

M: It is a stage on which a world drama is being
played. The quality of the performance is all that
matters; not what the actors say and do, but how
they say and do it.
M: Egy sznpadnak, amelyen a vilg drma
jtszdik. Kizrlag az elads minsge a fontos;
nem az szmt, hogy a sznszek mit mondanak s
csinlnak, hanem csak az, ahogyan mondjk s
csinljk azt.

Q: I do not like this lila (play) idea I would rather K: Nekem nem tetszik ez a lila (jtk) idea, n
compare the world to a work-yard in which we are inkbb hasonltanm a vilgot egy munkaterlethez,
the builders. amelyen mi vagyunk az ptmunksok.

M: You take it too seriously. What is wrong with
play? You have a purpose only as long as you are
not complete (purna); till then completeness,
perfection, is the purpose. But when you are
complete in yourself, fully integrated within and
without, then you enjoy the universe; you do not
labour at it. To the disintegrated you may seem
working hard, but that is their illusion. Sportsmen
seem to make tremendous efforts: yet their sole
motive is to play and display.
M: Tl komolyan veszed. Mi baj a jtkkal? Csak
addig van clod, amg nem vagy teljes (purna);
addig pedig a teljessg, a tkletessg a cl. De
amikor teljes vagy nmagadban, kvl-bell teljesen
integrlt, akkor lvezed az univerzumot; nem
dolgozol rajta. A dezintegrltnak gy tnik, hogy
kemnyen dolgozol, de ez az illzijuk. A
sportolk ltszlag hatalmas erfesztseket
tesznek: egyetlen motivcijuk mgis a jtk, s a
megnyilatkozs.

Q: Do you mean to say that God is just having fun, K: Azt akarod mondani, hogy Isten csak szrakozik,
that he is engaged in purposeless action? hogy cl nlkl cselekvssel foglalja el magt?

92
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
M: God is not only true and good, he is also M: Isten nem csak igaz s j, hanem szp is
beautiful (satyam-shivam-sundaram). He creates (satyam-shivam-sundaram). A szpsget annak
beauty -- for the joy of It rmrt teremti.

Q: Well, then beauty is his purpose. K: Nos ht, akkor a szpsg a clja.

M: Why do you introduce purpose? Purpose implies
movement, change, a sense of imperfection. God
does not aim at beauty -- whatever he does is
beautiful. Would you say that a flower is trying to be
beautiful? It is beautiful by its very nature. Similarly
God is perfection itself, not an effort at perfection.
M: Mirt kevered bele a szndkot? A szndk
mozgst, vltozst, tkletlensg rzst implikl.
Istennek nem clja a szpsg brmit tesz, az
szp. Lehet olyat mondani, hogy a virg megprbl
szp lenni? Szp az, a sajt termszetnl fogva.
Hasonlkppen, Isten is maga a tkletessg, nem
kell erfesztst tennie, hogy tkletess vljon.

Q: The purpose fulfils itself in beauty. K: A szndk a szpsgben teljesti be nmagt.

M: What is beautiful? Whatever is perceived M: Mi a szp? Brmit, amit a tkletes boldogsg

blissfully is beautiful. Bliss is the essence of beauty. llapotban ltsz, az minden szp. A szpsgnek az
eszencija a boldogsg.

Q: You speak of Sat-Chit-Ananda. That I am is K: Beszlsz a Sat-Chit-Ananda-rl. Az, hogy

obvious. That I know is obvious. That I am happy is ltezem, szembetn. Az, hogy tudok, szembetn.
not at all obvious. Where has my happiness gone? Az, hogy boldog vagyok, egyltaln nem
szembetn. Hov tnt a boldogsgom?

M: Be fully aware of your own being and you will be
in bliss consciously. Because you take your mind off
yourself and make it dwell on what you are not, you
lose your sense of well-being of being well.
M: Lgy teljesen tudatban sajt ltednek, s a
tudatos boldogsgban leszel. Mivel elmdet
elfordtod nmagadrl, s arra irnytod, ami nem
vagy, elveszted a jl lt elgedettsgnek az
rzst.

Q: There are two paths before us -- the path of effort K: Kt t ll elttnk az erfeszts tja (yoga
(yoga marga), and the path of ease (bhoga marga). marga), s a knyelem tja (bhoga marga).
Both lead to the same goal -- liberation. Mindkett ugyanahhoz a clhoz vezet a
megszabadulshoz.

M: Why do you call bhoga a path? How can ease M: Mirt hvod a tnak bhogt? Hogy vezethet a
bring you perfection? knyelem tkletessghez?

Q: The perfect renouncer (yogi) will find reality. The K: Aki eljutott a tkletes lemondsig (yogi),
perfect enjoyer (bhogi) also will come to it. megtallja a valsgot. Aki eljutott a tkletessgig
az lvezetben (bhogi), szintn el fog oda jutni.

M: How can it be? Aren't they contradictory? M: Hogy lehet ez? Nem ellentmond kijelentsek
ezek?

Q: The extremes meet. To be a perfect Bhogi is
more difficult than to be a perfect Yogi. I am a
humble man and cannot venture judgements of
value. Both the Yogi and the Bhogi, after all, are
concerned with the search for happiness. The Yogi
wants it permanent, the Bhogi is satisfied with the
intermittent. Often the Bhogi strives harder than the
Yogi.
K: A vgletek tallkoznak. Tkletes Bhoginak lenni
sokkal nehezebb, mint tkletes Yoginak. n
egyszer ember vagyok, s nem merszelhetek
rtkeket megtlni. Vgs soron mind a Yogi, mind
a Bhogi, a boldogsg keressvel trdik. A Bhogi
erfesztsei gyakran kitartbbak, mint a Yogi.

M: What is your happiness worth when you have to M: Mit r a boldogsgod, ha erlkdnd s
strive and labour for it? True happiness is dolgoznod kell rte? A valdi boldogsg spontn s
spontaneous and effortless. erfeszts mentes.

Q: All beings seek happiness. The means only K: Minden lny a boldogsgot keresi. Csak eltr

93
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
differ. Some seek it within and are therefore called
Yogis; some seek it without and are condemned as
Bhogis. Yet they need each other.
M: Pleasure and pain alternate. Happiness is
unshakable. What you can seek and find is not the
real thing. Find what you have never lost, find the
inalienable.
26. Personality, an Obstacle
Questioner: As I can see, the world is a school of
Yoga and life itself is Yoga practice. Everybody
strives for perfection and what is Yoga but striving.
There is nothing contemptible about the so-called
'common' people and their 'common' lives. They
strive as hard and suffer as much as the Yogi, only
they are not conscious of their true purpose.
Maharaj: In what way are your common people --
Yogis?
Q: Their ultimate goal is the same. What the Yogi
secures by renunciation (tyaga) the common man
realises through experience (bhoga). The way of
Bhoga is unconscious and, therefore, repetitive and
protracted, while the way of Yoga is deliberate and
intense and, therefore, can be more rapid.
M: Maybe the periods of Yoga and Bhoga alternate.
First Bhogi, then Yogi, then again Bhogi, then again
Yogi.
Q: What may be the purpose?
M: Weak desires can be removed by introspection
and meditation, but strong, deep-rooted ones must
be fulfilled and their fruits, sweet or bitter, tasted.
Q: Why then should we pay tribute to Yogis and
speak slightingly of Bhogis? All are Yogis, in a way.
M: On the human scale of values deliberate effort is
considered praiseworthy. In reality both the Yogi and
Bhogi follow their own nature, according to
circumstances and opportunities. The Yogi's life is
governed by a single desire -- to find the Truth; the
Bhogi serves many masters. But the Bhogi becomes
a Yogi and the Yogi may get a rounding up in a bout
of Bhoga. The final result is the same.
Q: Buddha is reported to have said that it is
tremendously important to have heard that there is
enlightenment, a complete reversal and
transformation in consciousness. The good news is
94
mdokon. Nmelyek bell keresik, s ezrt a nevk
az, hogy Yogi, msok kvl keresik, s a Bhogi nevet
ragasztottk rjuk. Mgis, szksgk van egymsra.
M: Az rm s a fjdalom vltakozak. A boldogsg
rendthetetlen. Amit keresni lehet, s megtallni, az
nem valdi. Fedezd fel, amit soha el nem vesztettl,
fedezd fel, ami tled soha el nem idegenthet.
26. A szemlyisg akadly
Krdez: rtelmezsem szerint a vilg a Yoga
iskolja, s maga az let egy Yoga gyakorlat.
Mindenki tkletessgre trekszik, s mi ms a
Yoga, ha nem trekvs? Semmi megvetend nincs
az gynevezett egyszer emberekben, s az
egyszer letkben. Legalbb olyan kemnyen
trekszenek, s legalbb annyit szenvednek, mint a
Yogi, csak k nincsenek tudatban igazi cljuknak.
Maharaj: Mi mdon Yogik a te egyszer embereid?
K: Az vgs cljuk is ugyanaz. Amit a Yogi
lemondssal (tyaga) r el, azt a kznsges ember
tapasztalat (bhoga) tjn valstja meg. A Bhoga
tja nem tudatos, ennl fogva ismtlsekkel teli, s
hosszantart, mg a Yoga tja tgondolt s
elmlylt, ezrt sokkal gyorsabb lehet.
M: Lehet, hogy a Yoga s Bhoga peridusok
vltakoznak. Elszr Bhogi, aztn Yogi, majd jbl
Bhogi, majd jbl Yogi.
K: Mi lehet a cl?
M: A gyenge vgyak eltvolthatk nelemzssel s
meditcival, de az ers, mlyen gykerez
vgyakat be kell teljesteni, s gymlcseiket,
legyenek azok desek vagy keserek, meg kell
zlelni.
K: Akkor mirt adznak elismerssel a Yogiknak, s
beszlnek megveten a Bhogikrl? Mindegyikk
Yogi, bizonyos mdon.
M: Az emberi rtkrend az tgondolt erfesztst
dicsretremltnak tekinti. A Yogi s a Bhogi
valjban a sajt termszetket kvetik, a
krlmnyektl s a lehetsgektl fggen. A Yogi
lett egyetlen vgy vezrli megtallni az
Igazsgot; a Bhogi sok mestert szolgl. De a
Bhogibl Yogi lesz, s a Yogi fellkerekedhet a
Bhoga kzdelmben. A vgs eredmny ugyanaz.
K: A hagyomny Buddhnak tulajdontja a mondst,
miszerint mrhetetlenl fontos hallani rla, hogy van
megvilgosods, ami teljes megfordulst s
talakulst jelent a tudatossgban. A j hr ahhoz
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
compared to a spark in a shipload of cotton; slowly
but relentlessly the whole of it will turn to ashes.
Similarly the good news of enlightenment will,
sooner or later, bring about a transformation.
M: Yes, first hearing (shravana), then remembering
(smarana), pondering (manana) and so on. We are
on familiar ground. The man who heard the news
becomes a Yogi; while the rest continue in their
Bhoga.
Q: But you agree that living a life -- just living the
humdrum life of the world, being born to die and
dying to be born -- advances man by its sheer
volume, just like the river finds its way to the sea by
the sheer mass of the water it gathers.
M: Before the world was, consciousness was. In
consciousness it comes into being, in consciousness
it lasts and into pure consciousness it dissolves. At
the root of everything, is the feeling 'I am'. The state
of mind: 'there is a world' is secondary, for to be, I do
not need the world, the world needs me.
Q: The desire to live is a tremendous thing.
M: Still greater is the freedom from the urge to live.
Q: The freedom of the stone?
M: Yes, the freedom of the stone, and much more
besides. Freedom unlimited and conscious.
Q: Is not personality required for gathering
experience?
M: As you are now, the personality is only an
obstacle. Selfidentification with the body may be
good for an infant, but true growing up depends on
getting the body out of the way. Normally, one
should outgrow body-based desires early in life.
Even the Bhogi, who does not refuse enjoyments,
need not hanker after the ones he has tasted. Habit,
desire for repetition frustrates both the Yogi and the
Bhogi.
Q: Why do you keep on dismissing the person
(vyakti) as of no importance? Personality is the
primary fact of our existence. It occupies the entire
stage.
M: As long as you do not see that it is mere habit,
built on memory, prompted by desire, you will think
yourself to be a person -- living, feeling, thinking,
active, passive, pleased or pained. Question
yourself, ask yourself. 'Is it so?' 'Who am l'? 'What is
behind and beyond all this?' And soon you will see
95
hasonlatos, amikor szikra pattan egy hajrakomny
gyapotba; lassan, de knyrtelenl az egsz
hamuv lesz. Hasonl mdon fog a megvilgosods
j hre is elbb vagy utbb talakulst vgbevinni.
M: Igen, elszr halls (shravana), majd emlkezs
(smarana), elmlkeds (manana) s gy tovbb.
Ismers terepen vagyunk. Aki halotta a hrt Yogiv
vlik; mg a tbbiek folytatjk Bhogjukat.
K: De azzal bizonyra egyetrtesz, hogy az let
lse a vilg egyhang letnek puszta lse, a
megszlets, hogy meghaljunk, s a meghals,
hogy megszlessnk mr a puszta mennyisge
miatt is fejleszti az embert, ppgy, mint ahogy a
foly is megtallja az tjt a tenger fel, pusztn
azltal, hogy nagy tmeg vizet sszegyjt.
M: Mieltt a vilg lett volna, tudatossg volt. A vilg
tudatossgban kezdi ltezst, a tudatossgban
marad fenn s a tiszta tudatossgba olvad bele.
Minden dolgok gykernl ott a vagyok rzse. Az
elmnek a van vilg llapota msodlagos, mert a
lthez nincs szksgem a vilgra, a vilgnak van
szksge rm.
K: Az letsztn hatalmas dolog.
M: Mg nagyobb az letsztntl val szabadsg.
K: A knek a szabadsga?
M: Igen, a knek a szabadsga, s mg sok ms
azon kvl. A szabadsg hatrtalan, s tudatos.
K: Nincs szksg szemlyisgre a tapasztalat
gyjtshez?
M: Szmodra, amilyen most vagy, a szemlyisg
csak nyg. A testtel val nazonosuls j lehet egy
kisgyermek szmra, de az igazi felnvekvs a
testtl val fggetlenedsen mlik. Normlis
esetben az embernek kora ifjsgban ki kell nni a
test-alap vgyait. Mg az lvezeteket el nem
utast Bhoginak sem kell vgyakoznia azok utn,
amiket megzelt. A szoks, az ismtls vgya mind a
Yogit, mind a Bhogit akadlyozza.
K: Mirt tartod elutastandnak a szemlyt (vyakti),
mint jelentsg nlkli dolgot? A szemlyisg
ltezsnk elsdleges tnyezje. Az tlti be egsz
szntert.
M: Amg nem ltod meg, hogy a szemlyisg
pusztn csak emlkezetre pl szoks, amelyet a
vgy sarkall, mindaddig szemlynek fogod magad
gondolni, aki l, rz, gondolkod, tevkenyked,
boldog vagy bnatos. Vond krdre magad, krdezd
magad: gy van ez? Ki vagyok n? Mi van mindezek
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
your mistake. And it is in the very nature of a mgtt, s mindezeken tl? s hamarosan meg
mistake to cease to be, when seen. fogod ltni a hibidat. s a hiba, valdi termszete
szerint, megsznik ltezni, amikor megltod.

Q: The Yoga of living, of life itself, we may call the
Natural Yoga (nisarga yoga). It reminds me of the
Primal Yoga (adhi yoga), mentioned in the Rig-Veda
which was described as the marrying of life with
mind.
K: A ltezsnek, magnak az letnek a Yogjt,
nevezhetjk Termszetes Yognak (nisarga yoga).
Engem arra az si Yogra (adhi yoga) emlkeztet,
amit a Rig-Veda gy emlt, mint az elmvel trtnt
hzassgktst.

M: A life lived thoughtfully, in full awareness, is by M: Az elmlked, teljes tudatossgban lt let,

itself Nisarga Yoga. nmagban vve Nisarga Yoga.

Q: What does the marriage of life and mind mean? K: Mit jelent az let s az elme hzassga?

M: Living in spontaneous awareness, consciousness M: A spontn tudatossgban lt, erfeszts-mentes

of effortless living, being fully interested in one's life - let tudatossgt, az let irnti teljes rdekldst
- all this is implied. mindezt magban foglalja.

Q: Sharada Devi, wife of Sri Ramakrishna K: Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa felesge

Paramahamsa, used to scold his disciples for too
much effort. She compared them to mangoes on the
tree which are being plucked before they are ripe.
'Why hurry?' she used to say. 'Wait till you are fully
ripe, mellow and sweet.'
Sharada Devi leszidta tantvnyait, ha tl sok
erfesztst tettek. A frl retlenl leszaktott
manghoz hasonltotta ket. Minek sietni? mondta.
Vrj, mg teljesen meg nem rsz, lds leszel s
des.

M: How right she was. There are so many who take
the dawn for the noon, a momentary experience for
full realisation and destroy even the little they gain
by excess of pride. Humility and silence are
essential for a sadhaka, however advanced. Only a
fully ripened gnani can allow himself complete
spontaneity.
M: Milyen igaza volt. Olyan sokan vannak, akik
dlnek nzik a hajnalt, egy futlagos tapasztalatot
teljes megvalsulsnak, s mg ezt a keveset is
leromboljk mrtktelen ggjkkel. Az alzatossg
s a csend nlklzhetetlen a sadhakhoz,
brmennyire elrehaladott vagy. Csak a teljesen
rett gnani engedhet meg magnak teljes
spontaneitst.

Q: It seems there are schools of Yoga where the
student, after illumination, is obliged to keep silent
for 7 or 12 or 15 or even 25 years. Even Bhagavan
Sri Ramana Maharshi imposed on himself 20 years
of silence before he began to teach.
K: gy tudom, vannak a Yognak olyan iskoli,
amelyekben a tantvnynak ktelez csendben
maradnia 7, 12, 15 vagy 25 vig. Mg Bhagavan Sri
Ramana Maharshi is 20 v hallgatst mrt magra,
mieltt tantani kezdett.

M: Yes, the inner fruit must ripen. Until then the
discipline, the living in awareness, must go on.
Gradually the practice becomes more and more
subtle, until it becomes altogether formless.
M: Igen, a bels gymlcs meg kell, hogy rjen.
Addig is a fegyelmet, a tudatossgban val letet
kell gyakorolni. A gyakorlat fokozatosan egyre
finomabb s finomabb, mgnem teljesen
formanlkliv vlik.

Q: Krishnamurti too speaks of living in awareness. K: Krishnamurti is a tudatossgban val letrl

beszl.

M: He always aims directly at the 'ultimate'. Yes,
ultimately all Yogas end in your adhi yoga, the
marriage of consciousness (the bride) to life (the
bridegroom). Consciousness and being (sad-chit)
meet in bliss (ananda). For bliss to arise there must
be meeting, contact, the assertion of unity in duality.
M: mindig kzvetlenl a vgst clozza. Igen,
vgl minden Yoga a te adhi yogdba torkollik, a
tudatossg (a menyasszony) s az let (a vlegny)
hzassgba. Az dvssg felmerlshez
tallkozsra, kapcsolatra van szksg, az egysg
rvnyestsre a dualitsban.

Q: Buddha too has said that for the attainment of K: Buddha is azt mondta, hogy a nirvana
nirvana one must go to living beings. Consciousness megvalstshoz az embernek az llnyekhez kell
needs life to grow. mennie. A tudatossgnak letre van szksge

96
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
M: The world itself is contact -- the totality of all
contacts actualised in consciousness. The spirit
touches matter and consciousness results. Such
consciousness. when tainted with memory and
expectation, becomes bondage. Pure experience
does not bind; experience caught between desire
and fear is impure and creates karma.
Q: Can there be happiness in unity? Does not all
happiness imply necessarily contact, hence duality?
M: There is nothing wrong with duality as long as it
does not create conflict. Multiplicity and variety
without strife is joy. In pure consciousness there is
light. For warmth, contact is needed. Above the unity
of being is the union of love. Love is the meaning
and purpose of duality.
Q: I am an adopted child. My own father I do not
know. My mother died when I was born. My foster
father, to please my foster mother, who was
childless, adopted me -- almost by accident. He is a
simple man -- a truck owner and driver. My mother
keeps the house. I am 24 years now. For the last
two and a half years I am travelling, restless,
seeking. I want to live a good life, a holy life. What
am I to do?
M: Go home, take charge of your father's business,
look after your parents in their old age. Marry the girl
who is waiting for you, be loyal, be simple, be
humble. Hide your virtue, live silently. The five
senses and the three qualities (gunas) are your eight
steps in Yoga. And 'I am' is the Great Reminder
(mahamantra). You can learn from them all you
need to know. Be attentive, enquire ceaselessly.
That is all.
Q: If just living one's life liberates, why are not all
liberated?
M: All are being liberated. It is not what you live, but
how you live that matters. The idea of enlightenment
is of utmost importance. Just to know that there is
such possibility, changes one's entire outlook. It acts
like a burning match in a heap of saw dust. All the
great teachers did nothing else. A spark of truth can
burn up a mountain of lies. The opposite is also true;
The sun of truth remains hidden behind the cloud of
self-identification with the body.
Q: This spreading the good news of enlightenment
97
ahhoz, hogy nvekedjen.
M: A vilg maga kapcsolat az sszes kapcsolat
teljessge valsul meg a tudatossgban. A szellem
megrinti az anyagot, s tudatossgot eredmnyez.
Ilyen tudatossgot. Amikor emlkezettel s
elvrssal szennyezdik, akkor ktelkk vlik. A
tiszta tapasztalat nem eredmnyez ktttsget; a
vgy s flelem kztt ragadt tapasztalat tiszttalan,
s karmt teremt.
K: Lehetsges boldogsg az egysgben? Nem von
minden boldogsg maga utn szksgszeren
kapcsolatot, ebbl ereden dualitst?
M: Semmi baj a dualitssal, amg nem teremt
konfliktust. A kzdelem nlkli sokflesg s
vltozatossg rmet szerez. A tiszta
tudatossgban fny van. A melegsghez
kapcsolatra van szksg. A szeretet egysge a lt
egysge felett ll. A szeretet a jelentse s clja a
dualitsnak.
K: n adoptlt gyerek vagyok. Apmat nem
ismerem. Anym meghalt a szletsemkor.
Nevelapm, rmet akarvn szerezni
nevelanymnak, aki gyermektelen volt, szinte
vletlenl engem adoptlt. Egyszer ember
teherautja van, sofrkdik. Anym a hztartst
vezeti. n 24 ves vagyok. Az utbbi kt s fl
vben utazom, nyugtalan vagyok, keresek. Egy j
letet akarok lni, egy megszentelt letet. Mit kell
tennem?
M: Menj haza, vedd t apd vllalkozst,
gondoskodj ids szleidrl. Vedd el a lnyt, aki rd
vr, lgy hsges, lgy egyszer, lgy alzatos.
Titkold el ernyessgedet, lj csendesen. Az t
rzk s a hrom minsg (gunk) a te nyolc
lpsed a Yogban. s az n vagyok a Nagy
Emlkeztet (mahamantara). Megtanulhatsz tlk
mindent, amit tudnod kell. Lgy figyelmes, kutass
szntelenl. Ez minden.
K: Ha csak az megszabadt, hogy emberi letet
lek, akkor mirt nem megszabadult mindenki?
M: Minden lny megszabadult. Nem az szmt, hogy
mit lsz meg, hanem, ahogyan megled a
problmkat. A megvilgosods ideja a
legnagyobb fontossg. Annak a puszta tudsa,
hogy ltezik egy ilyen lehetsg, megvltoztatja az
ember egsz szemlletmdjt. Olyan a hatsa, mint
g gyufaszlnak a halom frszporra. A nagy
tantk sem csinltak mst. Az igazsg egy szikrja
felemsztheti a hazugsgok hegyt. Az ellenkez
szintn igaz; az igazsg napja rejtve marad a testtel
val nazonosuls felhje mgtt.
K: A megvilgosods rvendetes hrnek az
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
seems very important.
M: The very hearing of it, is a promise of
enlightenment. The very meeting a Guru is the
assurance of liberation. Perfection is life-giving and
creative.
Q: Does a realised man ever think: 'I am realised?'
Is he not astonished when people make much of
him? Does he not take himself to be an ordinary
human being?
M: Neither ordinary, nor extra-ordinary. Just being
aware and affectionate -- intensely. He looks at
himself without indulging in self-definitions and self-
identifications. He does not know himself as
anything apart from the world. He is the world. He is
completely rid of himself, like a man who is very rich,
but continually gives away his riches. He is not rich,
for he has nothing; he is not poor, for he gives
abundantly. He is just propertyless. Similarly, the
realised man is egoless; he has lost the capacity of
identifying himself with anything. He is without
location, placeless, beyond space and time, beyond
the world. Beyond words and thoughts is he.
Q: Well, it is deep mystery to me. I am a simple
man.
M: It is you who are deeply complex, mysterious,
hard to understand. I am simplicity itself, compared
to you: I am what is -- without any distinction
whatsoever into inner and outer, mine and yours,
good and bad. What the world is, I am; what I am
the world is.
Q: How does it happen that each man creates his
own world?
M: When a number of people are asleep, each
dreams his own dream. Only on awakening the
question of many different dreams arises and
dissolves when they are all seen as dreams, as
something imagined.
Q: Even dreams have a foundation.
M: In memory. Even then, what is remembered, is
but another dream. The memory of the false cannot
but give rise to the false. There is nothing wrong with
memory as such. What is false is its content.
Remember facts, forget opinions.
Q: What is a fact?
M: What is perceived in pure awareness, unaffected M: Ami a tiszta, vgyaktl mentes tudatossgban
by desire. szlelhet.
98
elterjedse nagyon fontosnak ltszik.
M: Valjban ennek meghallsa grete a
megvilgosodsnak. Valjban a Guruval val
tallkozs a megszabaduls biztostka. A
tkletessg letad, s teremt.
K: Gondolja-e megvalsult ember valaha is azt,
hogy n megvalsult vagyok? Nem lepdik-e meg,
amikor az emberek nagyra tartjk t? Nem tartja-e
nmagt mindennapi embernek?
M: Sem mindennapinak, sem rendkvlinek. Csak
tudatosan s szeretetteljesen l mdfelett.
nmagra n-meghatrozsok s n-azonostsok
megengedse nlkl tekint. Nem valamilyen vilgtl
klnll valaminek ismeri magt. maga a vilg.
Teljesen megszabadtotta nmagt, akrcsak a
nagyon gazdag ember, aki folyton elajndkozza a
vagyont. Nem gazdag, mert nincs semmije; nem
szegny, mert bsggel ad. Csak vagyona nincs.
Hasonlkppen, egmentes a megvalsult ember,
elvesztette arra vonatkoz kpessgt, hogy
azonostsa nmagt brmivel. Nincs lakhelye,
llstalan, tl van tren s idn, tl van a vilgon.
Tl van szavakon s gondolatokon.
K: Nos, ez nagyon mly rejtly a szmomra. n
egyszer ember vagyok.
M: Te mlysgesen sszetett, titokzatos, nehezen
rthet vagy. Hozzd kpest n maga az
egyszersg vagyok: n az vagyok, ami van
mindenfle bels s kls, enym s tid, j s
rossz megklnbztetse nlkl. Ami a vilg, az
vagyok n; ami n vagyok, a vilg az.
K: Az hogyan trtnik, hogy minden ember
ltrehozza a sajt vilgt?
M: Amikor tbben alszanak egyszerre, mindenki a
sajt lmt lmodja. Csak az brenlt sorn merl
fel a sok klnbz lom krdse, amit ejtenek,
amikor mindannyian lomnak, valamilyen elkpzelt
dolognak tekintik.
K: De ht az lmoknak van alapjuk.
M: Az emlkezetben. Ugyanakkor, amire
emlksznk, csak egy msik lom. A hamis emlke
nem eredmnyezhet mst, csak hamisat. Magval
az emlkezettel semmi baj. Ami hamis, az annak a
tartalma. A tnyekre emlkezz, a vlemnyeket
felejtsd el.
K: Mi a tny?
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
27. The Beginningless Begins Forever
Questioner: The other day I was asking you about
the two ways of growth -- renunciation and
enjoyment (yoga and bhoga). The difference is not
so great as it looks -- the Yogi renounces to enjoy;
the Bhogi enjoys to renounce. The Yogi renounces
first.
Maharaj: So what? Leave the Yogi to his Yoga and
the Bhogi to Bhoga.
Q: The way of Bhoga seems to me the better one.
The Yogi is like a green mango, separated from the
tree prematurely and kept to open in a basket of
straw. Airless and overheated, it does get ripe, but
the true flavour and fragrance are lost. The mango
left on the tree grows to full size, colour and
sweetness. A joy in every way. Yet somehow Yoga
gets all the praises, and Bhoga -- all the curses. As I
see it, Bhoga is the better of the two.
M: What makes you say so?
Q: I watched the Yogis and their enormous efforts.
Even when they realise, there is something bitter or
astringent about it. They seem to spend much of
their time in trances and when they speak, they
merely voice their scriptures. At their best such
gnanis are like flowers -- perfect, but just little
flowers, shedding their fragrance within a short
radius. There are some others, who are like forests -
- rich, varied, immense, full of surprises, a world in
themselves. There must be a reason for this
difference.
M: Well, you said it. According to you one got
stunted in his Yoga, while the other flourished in
Bhoga.
Q: Is it not so? The Yogi is afraid of life and seeks
peace, while the Bhogi is adventurous, full of spirits,
forward going. The Yogi is bound by an ideal, while
the Bhogi is ever ready to explore.
M: It is a matter of wanting much or being satisfied
with little. The Yogi is ambitious while the Bhogi is
merely adventurous. Your Bhogi seems to be richer
and more interesting, but it is not so in reality. The
Yogi is narrow as the sharp edge of the knife. He
has to be -- to cut deep and smoothly, to penetrate
unerringly the many layers of the false. The Bhogi
worships at many altars; the Yogi serves none but
his own true Self.
There is no purpose in opposing the Yogi to the
Bhogi. The way of outgoing (pravritti) necessarily
precedes the way of returning (nivritti). To sit in
99
27. A kezdetnlkli rkk kezddik
Krdez: A minap a fejlds ktfle tjrl
krdeztelek a lemond, hogy s az lvezetrl (yoga
s bhoga). A klnbsg nem olyan nagy, mint ltszik
a Yogi lemond, az lvezet rdekben; a Bhogi
lvez, a lemonds rdekben. A Yogi lemond
inkbb.
Maharaj: Na s? Hagyd a Yogira az Yogjt, s a
Bhogira az Bhogjt.
K: Szmomra a Bhoga tja tnik jobbnak. A Yogi
olyan, mint a zld mang, amit idnap eltt szedtek
le a frl, s szalmakosrban tartanak, hogy
kinyljon. Leveg nlkl, melegen tartva megrik, de
az igazi z s illat elveszett. A fn hagyott mang
kifejldik, teljes mret, sznes s des lesz. Minden
vonatkozsban lvezetess vlik. Mgis, valahogy a
Yoga kapja az sszes dicsretet, s a Bhoga az
sszes szitkot. Ahogy ltom, a Bhoga a jobb kettejk
kzl.
M: Mibl gondolod, hogy ez gy van?
K: Figyeltem a Yogikat s roppant erfesztsket.
Mg ha meg is valsulnak, valami keser vagy
fanyar ze van neki. gy tnik, sok idt tltenek
transzban, s amikor megszlalnak, egyedl a
szentrsoknak adnak hangot. Legjobbjaik, mint a
gnanik, akr a virgok tkletesek, de csak
virgocskk, illatukat kis krben rasztva. Msok
akr az erdk gazdagok, vltozatosak,
terjedelmesek, tele meglepetssel, egy egsz vilg
van bennk. Kell, hogy legyen magyarzat erre a
klnbsgre.
M: Nos, egyetrtek. Ahogy mondod, az egyik
elsatnyul a Yogban, mg a msik kivirgzik a
Bhogban.
K: Nem gy van? A Yogi fl az lettl, s bkt
keres, mg a Bhogi vakmer, llekkel teli, elre fel
halad. A Yogi idek ltal kttt, mg a Bhogi mindig
ksz a felfedezsre.
M: Ez annak a problmja, hogy valaki sokat akar,
vagy kevssel is beri. A Yogi nagyratr, mg a
Bhogi csupn kalandvgy. A Bhogi gazdagabbnak,
s sokkal rdekesebbnek ltszik, de valjban ez
nem gy van. A Yogi vkony, mint a ks le. Amit
neki kell vgni mlyen s egyenletesen, biztos
kzzel thatolni a hamis sok rtegn. A Bhogi sok
oltrnl imdkozik; a Yogi senkit nem szolgl, csak
sajt njt.
Cltalan dolog a Yogit s a Bhogit szembelltani. A
kifel irnyul t (pravritti) szksgkppen meg kell,
hogy elzze a befel irnyul utat (nivritti). tlkezni
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
judgement and allot marks is ridiculous. Everything
contributes to the ultimate perfection. Some say
there are three aspects of reality -- Truth-Wisdom-
Bliss; He who seeks Truth becomes a Yogi, he who
seeks wisdom becomes a gnani; he who seeks
happiness becomes the man of action.
Q: We are told of the bliss of non-duality.
M: Such bliss is more of the nature of a great peace. M: Az ilyenfajta boldogsg inkbb a magasztos bke
Pleasure and pain are the fruits of actions -- termszete. Az rm s a fjdalom az ernyes s a
righteous and unrighteous. bns tettek gymlcsei.
Q: What makes the difference?
M: The difference is between giving and grasping.
Whatever the way of approach, in the end all
becomes one.
Q: If there be no difference in the goal, why
discriminate between various approaches?
M: Let each act according to his nature. The ultimate
purpose will be served in any case. All your
discriminations and classifications are quite all right,
but they do not exist in my case. As the description
of a dream may be detailed and accurate, though
without having any foundation, so does your pattern
fit nothing but your own assumptions. You begin with
an idea and you end with the same idea under a
different garb.
Q: How do you see things?
M: One and all are the same to me. The same
consciousness (chit) appears as being (sat) and as
bliss (ananda): Chit in movement is Ananda; Chit
motionless is being.
Q: Still you are making a distinction between motion
and motionlessness.
M: Non-distinction speaks in silence. Words carry
distinctions. The unmanifested (nirguna) has no
name, all names refer to the manifested (saguna). It
is useless to struggle with words to express what is
beyond words. Consciousness (chidananda) is spirit
(purusha), consciousness is matter (prakriti).
Imperfect spirit is matter, perfect matter is spirit. In
the beginning as in the end, all is one.
All division is in the mind (chitta); there is none in
reality (chit). Movement and rest are states of mind
and cannot be without their opposites. By itself
nothing moves, nothing rests. It is a grievous
mistake to attribute to mental constructs absolute
existence. Nothing exists by itself.
100
s felcmkzni, nevetsges dolog. Minden a vgs
tkletessget segti el. Nmelyek azt mondjk,
hogy a valsgnak hrom aspektusa van Igazsg
Blcsessg Boldogsg. Aki az Igazsgot keresi,
az Yogiv, aki a blcsessget az gnaniv, aki pedig
a boldogsgot, az a tettek emberv vlik.
K: Hallottunk az egysg boldogsgrl.
K: Mi okozza a klnbsget?
M: A klnbsg az ads s a megszerzs kztt
van. Mindegy, hogy a megkzelts mdja, a vgn
minden eggy vlik.
K: Ha nem klnbzik a cl, mirt tesznk
klnbsget az egyes megkzeltsek kztt?
M: Mkdjn minden az termszete szerint. A
vgs clt fogja szolglni mindenkpp. Valamennyi
megklnbztetsed s osztlyozsod teljesen
rendben van, de az n esetemben azok nem
lteznek. Mint ahogy egy lom lersa lehet egszen
rszletes s pontos, annak ellenre, hogy minden
alapot nlklz, gy nem felel meg a te mintd
semmi msnak, csak a te sajt felttelezseidnek.
Elkezded egy ideval, s befejezed ugyanazon, de
mskppen felltztetett ideval.
K: Milyennek ltod a dolgokat?
M: Kivtel nlkl egyformk szmomra. Ugyanaz a
tudatossg (chit) jelenik meg ltknt (sat) s
boldogsgknt (ananda): a mozgsban lv chit az
Ananda; a mozdulatlan chit a lt.
K: Mg klnbsget teszel mozgst s
mozdulatlansg kztt.
M: A megklnbztets mentessg csendben
beszl. A szavak megklnbztetst hordoznak. A
megnyilvnulatlannak (nirguna) nincs neve, minden
nv a megnyilvnultra (saguna) vonatkozik.
Hasztalan dolog azon erlkdni, hogy szavakkal
fejezd ki, ami tl van szavakon. A tudatossg
(chidananda) szellem (purusha), a tudatossg anyag
(prakriti). A tkletlen szellem anyag, a tkletes
anyag szellem. Kezdetben, miknt a vgn is,
minden egy.
Minden sztvlaszts az elmben (chitta) van, nem
a valsgban (chit). Mozgs s nyugalom az elme
llapotai, s nem ltezhetnek az ellentteik nlkl.
Magtl semmi nem mozog, semmi nem nyugszik.
Slyos hiba mentlis konstrukciknak abszolt
ltezst tulajdontani. Semmi nem ltezik nmagtl.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: You seem to identify rest with the Supreme
State?
M: There is rest as a state of mind (chidaram) and
there is rest as a state of being (atmaram). The
former comes and goes, while the true rest is the
very heart of action. Unfortunately, language is a
mental tool and works only in opposites.
Q: As a witness, you are working or at rest?
M: Witnessing is an experience and rest is freedom
from experience.
Q: Can't they co-exist, as the tumult of the waves
and the quiet of the deep co-exist in the ocean.
M: Beyond the mind there is no such thing as
experience. Experience is a dual state. You cannot
talk of reality as an experience. Once this is
understood, you will no longer look for being and
becoming as separate and opposite. In reality they
are one and inseparable, like roots and branches of
the same tree. Both can exist only in the light of
consciousness, which again, arises in the wake of
the sense 'I am'. This is the primary fact. If you miss
it, you miss all.
Q: Is the sense of being a product of experience
only? The great saying (Mahavakya) tat-sat is it a
mere mode of mentation?
M: Whatever is spoken is speech only. Whatever is
thought is thought only. The real meaning is
unexplainable, though experienceable. The
Mahavakya is true, but your ideas are false, for all
ideas (kalpana) are false.
Q: Is the conviction: 'I am That' false?
M: Of course. Conviction is a mental state. In 'That'
there is no 'I am'. With the sense 'I am' emerging,
'That' is obscured, as with the sun rising the stars
are wiped out. But as with the sun comes light, so
with the sense of self comes bliss (chidananda). The
cause of bliss is sought in the 'not--I' and thus the
bondage begins.
Q: In your daily life are you always conscious of your K: Mindennapjaid folyamn mindig tudatban vagy
real state?
M: Neither conscious, nor unconscious. I do not
need convictions. I live on courage. Courage is my
essence, which is love of life. I am free of memories
and anticipations, unconcerned with what I am and
101
K: Jl veszem szre, hogy a nyugalmat a
Legfelsbb llapottal azonostod?
M: Az egyik fle nyugalom az elme (chidaram)
llapota, a msik fle nyugalom a lt (atmaram)
llapota. Az elbbi megjelenik s eltnik, mg az
igazi nyugalom a cselekvs legbels magja. Sajnos,
a nyelv mentlis eszkz, s csak ellenttekkel
dolgozik.
K: Tanknt mkdsben, vagy nyugalomban
vagy?
M: A tansg tapasztalat, s a nyugalom mentes a
tapasztalattl.
K: Nem ltezhetnek egyidejleg, mint az cennak
a felsznen kavarg hullmai, s mlynek csendje.
M: Az elmn tl nem ltezik tapasztalat. A
tapasztalat dulis llapot. Nem beszlhetsz gy a
valsgrl, mint tapasztalatrl. Amint ezt
megrtetted, nem trekszel tbb, hogy klnll s
szembenll lgy, illetve hogy azz vlj. A
valsgban egyek s elvlaszthatatlanok, mint
ugyanannak a fnak a gykerei s gai. Mindkett
csak a tudatossg fnyben ltezik, ami ismtlem,
az n vagyok rzsbl val felbredskor merl
fel. Ez az elsdleges tny. Ha elhibzod ezt,
mindent elhibzol.
K: A lt rzete tapasztals eredmnye csupn? A
tat-sat nagy mondsa (Mahavakya) pusztn
mentlis md?
M: Brmit is mondtak, az csupn beszd. Brmit is
gondoltak, az csupn gondolat. A Mahavakya igaz,
de a te ideid hamisak, mert minden idea (kalpana)
hamis.
K: A meggyzds, hogy n Az vagyok, hamis?
M: Termszetesen. A meggyzds mentlis
llapot. Az Az-ban nincs n vagyok. Az n
vagyok megjelensvel az Az elhomlyosodik,
mint ahogy a nap felkeltvel kihunynak a csillagok.
De, mint ahogy a nappal egytt jr a fny, gy jr
egytt az n rzetvel a boldogsg (chidananda). A
ktttsg a boldogsg oknak a nem--n-ben
keressvel kezddik.
valdi llapotodnak?
M: Se tudatban, se nem tudatban nem vagyok.
Nincs szksgem hitekre. Btran lek. Lnyegem a
btorsg, amely az let szeretete. Emlkektl s
elvrsoktl mentes vagyok, nem trdm vele, mi
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
what I am not. I am not addicted to selfdescriptions,
soham and brahmasmi ('I am He', 'I am the
Supreme') are of no use to me, I have the courage
to be as nothing and to see the world as it is:
nothing. It sounds simple, just try it.
Q: But what gives you courage?
M: How perverted are your views. Need courage be
given? Your question implies that anxiety is the
normal state and courage is abnormal. It is the other
way round. Anxiety and hope are born of
imagination -- I am free of both. I am simple being
and I need nothing to rest on.
Q: Unless you know yourself, of what use is your
being to you? To be happy with what you are, you
must know what you are.
M: Being shines as knowing, knowing is warm in
love. It is all one. You imagine separations and
trouble yourself with questions. Don't concern
yourself overmuch with formulations. Pure being
cannot be described.
Q: Unless a thing is knowable and enjoyable, it is of
no use to me. It must become a part of my
experience, first of all.
M: You are dragging down reality to the level of
experience. How can reality depend on experience,
when it is the very ground (adhar) of experience.
Reality is in the very fact of experience, not in its
nature. Experience is, after all, a state of mind, while
being is definitely not a state of mind.
Q: Again I am confused. Is being separate from
knowing?
M: The separation is an appearance. Just as the
dream is not apart from the dreamer, so is knowing
not apart from being. The dream is the dreamer, the
knowledge is the knower, the distinction is merely
verbal.
Q: I can see now that sat and chit are one. But what
about bliss (ananda)? Being and consciousness are
always present together, but bliss flashes only
occasionally.
M: The undisturbed state of being is bliss; the
disturbed state is what appears as the world. In non-
duality there is bliss; in duality -- experience. What
comes and goes is experience with its duality of pain
and pleasure. Bliss is not to be known. One is
always bliss, but never blissful. Bliss is not an
attribute.
102
vagyok, s mi nem vagyok. Nem vagyok
nmeghatrozs-fgg, a soham s a brahmasmi
('n vagyok, 'n a Legfelsbb vagyok) semmit
nem jelentenek szmomra, megvan a btorsgom,
hogy semmi legyek, s annak lssam a vilgot ami:
semminek. Ez egyszernek tnik, prbld csak ki.
K: De mi ad neked btorsgot?
M: Micsoda kificamodottak a nzeteid. A btorsgot
adni kell? A krdseid arra utalnak, hogy az
aggdst tartod normlis llapotnak, s a btorsgot
abnormlisnak. Fordtva. Nyugtalansg s remny a
kpzelet szlttei n mindketttl mentes vagyok.
n egyszeren csak ltezem, s nincs szksgem
semmi egybre.
K: Ha nem ismered magad, a ltezsnek mi haszna
szmodra? Hogy boldog lgy akknt, ami vagy,
tudnod kell, hogy mi vagy.
M: A ltezs tudsknt ragyog, a tuds szeretetben
gyengd. Ez mind egy. Elklnlsekben hiszel, s
krdsekkel gytrd magad. Ne ess tlzsba a
megfogalmazsokkal. A tiszta lt nem lerhat.
K: Ha egy dolog nem megismerhet, s nem
lvezetes, akkor nincs haszna szmomra. A
tapasztalatom rszv kell, hogy vljon, elssorban.
M: Lerngatod a valsgot a tapasztalat szintjre.
Hogyan fgghetne a valsg a tapasztalattl, amikor
ppen, hogy az a tapasztalat alapja (adhar)? A
valsg ppen, hogy tnye a tapasztalatnak, nem
pedig termszete. A tapasztalat vgl is elme
llapot, mg a lt bizonyos, hogy nem elme llapot.
K: Megint sszezavarodtam. Elklnl a tudstl?
M: Az elklnls ltszat. Mint ahogy az lom nem
klnll az lmodtl, gy a tuds sem klnll a
lttl. Az lom azonos az lmodval, a tuds azonos
a tudval, a klnbsg pusztn verblis.
K: Nos, rtem, hogy a sat s a chit egyek. De mi van
a boldogsggal (ananda)? A lt s a tudatossg
mindig egytt vannak jelen, de boldogsg csak
ritkn, s villansszeren jelentkezik.
M: A lt zavartalan llapota boldogsg; a zavart
llapot vilgknt jelenik meg. Egysgben boldogsg
van; dualitsban tapasztals. Ami megjelenik s
eltnik, az tapasztalat, annak fjdalom s rm
kettssgvel. A boldogsgot lehet tudni. Az ember
mindig boldogsg, de soha nem boldog. A
boldogsg az nem egy tulajdonsg.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: I have another question to ask: Some Yogis
attain their goal, but it is of no use to others. They do
not know, or are not able to share. Those who can
share out what they have, initiate others. Where lies
the difference?
M: There is no difference. Your approach is wrong.
There are no others to help. A rich man, when he
hands over his entire fortune to his family, has not a
coin left to give a beggar. So is the wise man (gnani)
stripped of all his powers and possessions. Nothing,
literally nothing, can be said about him. He cannot
help anybody for he is everybody. He is the poor
and also his poverty, the thief and also his thievery.
How can he be said to help, when he is not apart?
Who thinks of himself as separate from the world, let
him help the world.
Q: Still, there is duality, there is sorrow, there is
need of help. By denouncing it as mere dream
nothing is achieved.
M: The only thing that can help is to wake up from
the dream.
Q: An awakener is needed.
M: Who again is in the dream. The awakener
signifies the beginning of the end. There are no
eternal dreams.
Q: Even when it is beginningless?
M: Everything begins with you. What else is
beginningless?
Q: I began at birth.
M: That is what you are told. Is it so? Did you see
yourself beginning?
Q: I began just now. All else is memory.
M: Quite right. The beginningless begins forever. In
the same way, I give eternally, because I have
nothing. To be nothing, to have nothing, to keep
nothing for oneself is the greatest gift, the highest
generosity.
Q: Is there no self-concern left?
M: Of course I am self-concerned, but the self is all.
In practice it takes the shape of goodwill, unfailing
and universal. You may call it love, all-pervading, all-
redeeming. Such love is supremely active -- without
the sense of doing.
103
K: Msik krdsem: Nhny Yogi elri cljt, de
ennek semmi haszna msok szmra. Vagy nem
tudjk, vagy nem akarjk tadni. Akik kzre tudjk
adni, amijk van, elindtjk a tbbieket. Hol van a
klnbsg?
M: Nincs klnbsg. Hibs a megkzeltsed.
Nincsenek tbbiek, akiken segteni kellene. Amikor a
gazdag ember truhzza a teljes vagyont a
csaldjra, egy fitying sem marad, hogy a koldusnak
adja. A blcs ember (gnani) ugyangy veti le minden
kpessgt s vagyont. Semmit, sz szerint
semmit nem tud mondani magrl. Nem tud segteni
senkinek, mert minden. a szegny s a
szegnysg is, a tolvaj s a tolvajls is. Hogy
mondhatna olyat, hogy segt, amikor nem
klnbzik? Ha valaki klnllnak gondolja
nmagt a vilgtl, hadd segtsen a vilgon.
K: De ht dualits van, szomorsg van, szksg
van segtsgre. Az, hogy puszta lmoknak
nyilvntjuk, semmilyen clhoz nem vezet.
M: Egyetlen dolog segthet, az lombl val
felbreds.
K: Szksg van valakire, aki felbreszt.
M: Aki szintn benne van az lomban. Az breszt
egyben a vg kezdett is jelenti. Nincsenek rkk
tart lmok.
K: Mg akkor sem, ha nincs kezdete?
M: Minden veled kezddik. Mi ms lehet, aminek
nincs kezdete?
K: n a szletsemkor kezddtem.
M: Ez az, amirl beszltem neked. Tnyleg gy van?
Lttad magad kezddni?
K: ppen most kezddtem. Minden ms emlk.
M: Kitn. A kezdetnlklisg rkk kezddik.
Ugyanilyen mdon n is szakadatlanul adok, mert
semmim nincs. Semminek lenni, semmivel nem
brni, semminek nem tartani nmagadat a
legnagyobb ajndk, a legnagyobb bsg.
K: Mr nem trdsz magaddal?
M: Termszetesen trdm magammal, de minden
n vagyok. A gyakorlatban ez a jakarat
kifogyhatatlan s egyetemes formjt lti magra.
Nevezhetjk mindent betlt, mindent megvlt
szeretetnek is. Az ilyen szeretet a legteljesebb
rtelemben aktv a cselekvs rzete nlkl.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
28. All Suffering is Born of Desire
Questioner: I come from a far off country. I had
some inner experiences on my own and I would like
to compare notes.
Maharaj: By all means. Do you know yourself?
Q: I know that I am not the body. Nor am I the mind.
M: What makes you say so?
Q: I do not feel I am in the body. I seem to be all
over the place everywhere. As to the mind, I can
switch it on and off, so to say. This makes me feel I
am not the mind.
M: When you feel yourself everywhere in the world,
do you remain separate from the world? Or, are you
the world?
Q: Both. Sometimes I feel myself to be neither mind
nor body, but one single all-seeing eye. When I go
deeper into it, I find myself to be all I see and the
world and myself become one.
M: Very well. What about desires? Do you have
any?
Q: Yes, they come, short and superficial.
M: And what do you do about them?
Q: What can I do? They come, they go. l look at
them. Sometimes I see my body and my mind
engaged in fulfilling them.
M: Whose desires are being fulfilled?
Q: They are a part of the world in which I live. They
are just as trees and clouds are there.
M: Are they not a sign of some imperfection?
Q: Why should they be? They are as they are, and I
am as I am. How can the appearance and
disappearance of desires affect me? Of course, they
affect the shape and content of the mind.
M: Very well. What is your work?
Q: I am a probation officer.
M: What does it mean?
Q: Juvenile offenders are let off on probation and
there are special officers to watch their behaviour
and to help them get training and find work.
104
28. Minden szenveds vgybl szletik
Krdez: Tvoli orszgbl jttem. Van nmagamrl
nmi bels tapasztalatom, s szeretnk
tapasztalatokat cserlni.
Maharaj: Termszetesen. Ismered nmagad?
K: Tudom, hogy nem a test vagyok. Az elmm sem
n vagyok.
M: Ezt mire alapozod?
K: Nem rzem, hogy a testemben vagyok. Nekem
gy tnik, hogy mindenhol vagyok. Az elmt pedig,
gyszlvn, ki-be tudom kapcsolni. Emiatt gy
rzem, hogy n nem az elme vagyok.
M: Amikor gy rzed, hogy a mindenhol ott vagy
vilgban, gy rzed, hogy klnll vagy a vilgtl?
Vagy te vagy a vilg?
K: Mindkett. Nha gy rzem, hogy sem az elme,
sem a test nem vagyok, csak egyetlen mindent lt
szem. Amikor ebbe mlyebben belemegyek, gy
rzem, hogy mindent ltok s a vilg s n eggy
vlunk.
M: Nagyszer. Mi van a vgyakkal? Vannak
egyltaln?
K: Igen, addnak, rvidek s felsznesek.
M: s mit teszel velk?
K: Mit tehetnk? Jnnek, aztn elmennek. Figyelem
ket. Nha ltom, hogy testem s elmm
belebocstkoznak a kielgtskbe.
M: Ilyenkor kinek a vgyai teljeslnek?
K: Rszei a vilgnak, amelyben lek. ppen
olyanok, mint a benne lv fk s felhk.
M: Nem valamifle tkletlensg jelei lennnek?
K: Mirt lennnek azok? Olyanok amilyenek, s n
vagyok, amilyen vagyok. Hogy tudna a vgyak
megjelense s eltnse hatni rm? Termszetesen
a formra s az elme tartalmra hatssal vannak.
M: Nagyszer. Mi a foglalkozsod?
K: Felttelesen szabadlbra helyezettek
felgyeletvel megbzott rendrtiszt vagyok.
M: Az mit jelent?
K: Prbaidre bocstanak fiatalkor bnelkvetket,
akiknek specilis hivatalnokok figyelik a
viselkedst, segtve ket a kpzsben, s hogy
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
munkt talljanak.

M: Must you work? M: Muszj dolgoznod?

Q: Who works? Work happens to take place. K: Ki dolgozik? A munkavgzs megtrtnik.

M: Do you need to work? M: Szksged van r, hogy dolgozz?

Q: I need it for the sake of money. I like it, because it K: Szksgem van r, a pnz miatt. Szeretem, mert
puts me in touch with living beings. sszekapcsol ms llnyekkel.

M: What do you need them for? M: Mit akarsz tlk?

Q: They may need me and it is their destinies that K: Szksgk lehet rm, s az sorsuk miatt
made me take up this work. It is one life, after all. vgzem ezt a munkt. Egy az let, vgl is.

M: How did you come to your present state? M: Hogyan kerltl a jelenlegi llapotodba?

Q: Sri Ramana Maharshi's teachings have put me K: Sri Ramana Maharshi tantsai tereltek az
on my way. Then I met one Douglas Harding who utamra. Azutn tallkoztam egy Douglas Harding
helped me by showing me how to work on the 'Who nev emberrel, aki azltal segtett nekem, hogy
am I ?' megmutatta a ki vagyok n? mkdst.

M: Was it sudden or gradual? M: Hirtelen trtnt, vagy fokozatosan?

Q: It was quite sudden. Like something quite
forgotten, coming back into one's mind. Or, like a
sudden flash of understanding. 'How simple', I said,
'How simple; I'm not what I thought I am. I'm neither
the perceived nor the perceiver; I'm the perceiving
only'.
K: Teljesen hirtelen trtnt. Valami olyasmi volt, mint
amikor valami, amit teljesen elfelejtettl, visszatr az
ember elmjbe. Vagy mint a megrts egy hirtelen
felvillansa. Milyen egyszer, mondtam - milyen
egyszer; nem az vagyok, akinek gondoltam
magam. Sem az szlelt, sem az szlel nem
vagyok; csupn az szlelet vagyok.

M: Not even the perceiving, but that which makes all M: De mg az szlelet sem, hanem az, ami ezt
this possible. lehetv teszi.

Q: What is love? K: Mi a szeretet?

M: When the sense of distinction and separation is M: Amikor hinyzik a klnbzs s elklnls
absent, you may call it love. rzete, azt nevezheted szeretetnek.

Q: Why so much stress on love between man and K: Mirt olyan nagy a knyszere a frfi s n kztti
woman? szeretetnek?

M: Because the element of happiness in it is so M: Mivel annyira kimagasl a benne lv boldogsg

prominent. elem.

Q: Is it not so in all love? K: Ez nem minden szeretet esetn van gy?

M: Not necessarily. Love may cause pain. You call it M: Nem szksgszeren. A szeretetet fjdalom is
then compassion. okozhatja. Ekkor knyrletnek nevezed.

Q: What is happiness? K: Mi a boldogsg?

M: Harmony between the inner and the outer is M: A boldogsg a bels s a kls kztti harmnia.
happiness. On the other hand, self-identification with Msfell, a kls okokkal val nazonosuls
the outer causes is suffering. szenveds.

Q: How does self-identification happen? K: Hogyan megy vgbe az nazonosuls?

105
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
M: The self by its nature knows itself only. For lack
of experience whatever it perceives it takes to be
itself. Battered, it learns to look out (viveka) and to
live alone (vairagya). When right behaviour (uparati),
becomes normal, a powerful inner urge
(mukmukshutva) makes it seek its source. The
candle of the body is lighted and all becomes clear
and bright.
Q: What is the real cause of suffering?
M: Self-identification with the limited (vyaktitva).
Sensations as such, however strong, do not cause
suffering. It is the mind bewildered by wrong ideas,
addicted to thinking: 'I am this' 'I am that', that fears
loss and craves gain and suffers when frustrated.
Q: A friend of mine used to have horrible dreams
night after night. Going to sleep would terrorise him.
Nothing could help him.
M: Company of the truly good (satsang) would help
him.
Q: Life itself is a nightmare.
M: Noble friendship (satsang) is the supreme
remedy for all ills, physical and mental.
Q: Generally one cannot find such friendship.
M: Seek within. Your own self is your best friend.
Q: Why is life so full of contradictions?
M: It serves to break down mental pride. We must
realise how poor and powerless we are. As long as
we delude ourselves by what we imagine ourselves
to be, to know, to have, to do, we are in a sad plight
indeed. Only in complete self-negation there is a
chance to discover our real being.
Q: Why so much stress on self-negation?
M: As much as on self-realisation. The false self
must be abandoned before the real self can be
found.
Q: The self you choose to call false is to me most
distressingly real. It is the only self I know. What you
call the real self is a mere concept, a way of
speaking, a creature of the mind, an attractive ghost.
My daily self is not a beauty, I admit, but it is my own
and only self. You say I am, or have, another self.
Do you see it -- is it a reality to you, or do you want
me to believe what you yourself don't see?
106
M: Az n termszettl fogva nmagt ismeri csak.
Tapasztalatlan lvn brmit szlel, azt nmagnak
hiszi. Megsrl, megtanul kifel nzni (viveka), s
egyedl lni (vairagya). Amikor a helyes magatarts
(uparati) lesz a normlis, egy erteljes bels
ksztets (mukmukshutva) jelentkezik sajt
forrsnak keressre. A test gyertyja meggyullad,
s minden vilgoss s ragyogv vlik.
K: Mi a szenveds valdi oka?
M: A korltozottal (vyaktitva) val nazonosuls. A
benyomsok nmagukban, brmilyen ersek, nem
okoznak szenvedst. A rossz idek ltal sszezavart
elme gondolkods fggv vlik: n ez vagyok, n
az vagyok, ami fl a vesztesgtl, s szksge van
a nyeresgre, s szenved, amikor csaldik.
K: Egy bartomnak iszonyatos lmai vannak, estrl
estre. Amikor kzeledik az alvs, rettegs tlti el.
Semmi nem segt rajta.
M: A valdi j (satsang) trsasga tudna neki
segteni.
K: Maga az let egy rmlom.
M: A nemes bartsg (satsang) a legfbb
gygyszere minden betegsgnek, legyen az fizikai,
vagy mentlis.
K: Nem nagyon tallni ilyen bartokat.
M: Keresd bell. Sajt ned a legjobb bartod.
K: Az let mirt olyan ellentmondsokkal teli?
M: Ez a mentlis gg letrsre szolgl. Fel kell,
hogy ismerjk, milyen gyarlk s tehetetlenek
vagyunk. Amg a lt, tuds, birtokls, cselekvs
elkpzelsvel csaljuk magunkat, valjban
sznalmasan szorult helyzetben vagyunk. Csak
teljes n-tagadsban van lehetsg valdi ltnk
felfedezsre.
K: Mirt akkora nehzsg az ntagads?
M: Ugyanakkora, mint az nmegvalsts. A hamis
nt el kell hagyni, mieltt a valdi nt
megtallhatnnk.
K: Az n, amit hamisnak nevezel, a legfjdalmasabb
rtelemben valdi szmomra. Ez az egyetlen n,
tudomsom szerint. Amit a valdi nnek nevezel,
fogalom csupn, kifejezsmd, elme teremtmny,
vonz szellemkp. Mindennapi nem nem egy
szpsg, beismerem, de az n sajt, s egyetlen
nem. Azt mondod, n vagyok, hogy van egy msik
n. Ltod azt realits szmodra, vagy olyat akarsz
elhitetni velem, amit te magad sem ltsz?
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
M: Don't jump to conclusions rashly. The concrete
need not be the real, the conceived need not be
false. Perceptions based on sensations and shaped
by memory imply a perceiver, whose nature you
never cared to examine. Give it your full attention,
examine it with loving care and you will discover
heights and depths of being which you did not
dream of, engrossed as you are in your puny image
of yourself.
Q: I must be in the right mood to examine myself
fruitfully.
M: You must be serious, intent, truly interested. You
must be full of goodwill for yourself.
Q: I am selfish all right.
M: You are not. You are all the time destroying
yourself, and your own, by serving strange gods,
inimical and false. By all means be selfish -- the right
way. Wish yourself well, labour at what is good for
you. Destroy all that stands between you and
happiness. Be all -- love all -- be happy -- make
happy. No happiness is greater.
Q: Why is there so much suffering in love?
M: All suffering is born of desire. True love is never
frustrated. How can the sense of unity be frustrated?
What can be frustrated is the desire for expression.
Such desire is of the mind. As with all things mental,
frustration is inevitable.
Q: What is the place of sex in love?
M: Love is a state of being. Sex is energy. Love is
wise, sex is blind. Once the true nature of love and
sex is understood there will be no conflict or
confusion.
Q: There is so much sex without love.
M: Without love all is evil. Life itself without love is
evil.
Q: What can make me love?
M: You are love itself -- when you are not afraid.
29. Living is Lifes only Purpose
Questioner: What does it mean to fail in Yoga?
107
M: Ne bocstkozz elhamarkodott
kvetkeztetsekbe. Minl konkrtabb igny, hogy ne
lgy a valdi, annl inkbb vled gy, hogy nem
vagy hamis. Az rzkels alap szlelsek, s azok
memria ltali alaktsa szlelre utal, akinek a
termszetnek a megvizsglsra sosem fordtottl
gondot. Szenteld neki teljes figyelmedet, vizsgld
meg szeret gondossggal, s a lt olyan
magassgait s mlysgeit fogod felfedezni,
amelyekrl nmagad apr kpbe merlten mg
csak nem is lmodtl.
K: Megfelel lelkillapotba kell kerlnm ahhoz,
hogy eredmnyesen vizsgljam magam.
M: Elengedhetetlen felttel, hogy legyl komoly,
elsznt trekv, szintn rdekld. Maximlis
jindulattal kell nmagad irnt viseltetned.
K: Meglehetsen nz vagyok.
M: Nem vagy az. Szakadatlanul puszttod magadat
s nedet, idegen, ellensges s hamis istenek
szolglatval. Termszetesen, lgy nz a helyes
mdon. Kvnj magadnak jt, fradozz azon, ami j
szmodra. Semmists meg mindent, ami kzd s a
boldogsg kz ll. Legyl minden szeress
mindent legyl boldog tedd magad boldogg.
Nincs nagyobb boldogsg.
K: A szeretetben mirt van olyan sok szenveds?
M: Minden szenveds vgybl szletik. Az igaz
szeretet soha nem vall kudarcot. Hogyan vallhatna
kudarcot az egysg rzse? Ami kudarcot vallhat,
az a kifejezs vgya. Ilyen fajta vgy az elm.
Mivel minden dolog mentlis, a kudarc
elkerlhetetlen.
K: Hol a helye a szexnek a szeretetben?
M: A szeretet ltllapot. A szex energia. A szeretet
blcs, a szex vak. Amint megrted a szeretet s a
szex igazi termszett, azok nem keverednek ssze,
vagy cserldnek fel tbb.
K: Olyan sok a szeretet nlkli szex.
M: Szeretet nlkl minden gonosz. Az let maga,
szeretet nlkl, gonosz.
K: Mi tehet engem szeretv?
M: Akkor szereted nmagad amikor nem flsz.
29. Az let egyetlen clja maga az let
Krdez: Mit jelent az, hogy eredmnytelennek
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Who is a failure in Yoga (yoga bhrashta)?
Maharaj: It is only a question of incompletion. He
who could not complete his Yoga for some reason is
called failed in Yoga. Such failure is only temporary,
for there can be no defeat in Yoga. This battle is
always won, for it is a battle between the true and
the false. The false has no chance.
Q: Who fails? The person (vyakti) or the self
(vyakta)?
M: The question is wrongly put. There is no question
of failure, neither in the short run nor in the long. It is
like travelling a long and arduous road in an
unknown country. Of all the innumerable steps there
is only the last which brings you to your destination.
Yet you will not consider all previous steps as
failures. Each brought you nearer to your goal, even
when you had to turn back to by-pass an obstacle.
In reality each step brings you to your goal, because
to be always on the move, learning, discovering,
unfolding, is your eternal destiny. Living is life's only
purpose. The self does not identify itself with
success or failure -- the very idea of becoming this
or that is unthinkable. The self understands that
success and failure are relative and related, that
they are the very warp and weft of life. Learn from
both and go beyond. If you have not learnt, repeat.
Q: What am I to learn?
M: To live without self-concern. For this you must
know your own true being (swarupa) as indomitable,
fearless, ever victorious. Once you know with
absolute certainty that nothing can trouble you but
your own imagination, you come to disregard your
desires and fears, concepts and ideas and live by
truth alone.
Q: What may be the reason that some people
succeed and others fail in Yoga? Is it destiny or
character, or just accident?
M: Nobody ever fails in Yoga. It is all a matter of the
rate of progress. It is slow in the beginning and rapid
in the end. When one is fully matured, realisation is
explosive. It takes place spontaneously, or at the
slightest hint. The quick is not better than the slow.
Slow ripening and rapid flowering alternate. Both are
natural and right.
Yet, all this is so in the mind only. As I see it, there is
really nothing of the kind. In the great mirror of
consciousness images arise and disappear and only
memory gives them continuity. And memory is
108
lenni a Yogban? Ki eredmnytelen a Yogban
(yoga bhrashta)?
Maharaj: Ez csupn befejezetlensgrl szl. Aki
bizonyos okok miatt nem tudta vgigvinni az
Yogjt, azt tekintik eredmnytelennek a Yogban.
Ez a harc mindig megnyersre kerl, mert ez az igaz
s hamis kztti harc. A hamisnak nincs eslye.
K: Ki sikertelen? A szemly (vyakti), vagy az n
(vyakta)?
M: Rossz a krds feltevs. Nincs sz
sikertelensgrl, sem a kzeli, sem a tvoli jvben.
Ez egy ismeretlen orszgban trtn, hossz s
fradsgos utazshoz hasonlt. A szmtalan sok
lps kzl csak az utols az, amelyik a eljuttat a
clllomsodba. Mgsem tekinted sikertelensgnek
az sszes elz lpsedet. Mindegyik kzelebb vitt
a clodhoz, mg az is, amikor vissza kellett
fordulnod, hogy kikerlj egy akadlyt. A valsgban
minden lps a clba visz, mert a folyamatos
mozgs, tanuls, felfedezs, kibontakozs a te rk
vgzeted. Az let egyetlen clja maga az let. Az n
nem azonostja magt sikerrel vagy kudarccal a
teljes ezz vagy azz vls ideja elkpzelhetetlen.
Az n megrti, hogy a siker s a kudarc
viszonylagosak s sszekapcsoldnak, hogy
valjban ezek az let fonala s szvedke. Tanulj
mindkettbl, s lpj tovbb. Ha nem tanultl,
ismtelj.
K: Mit kell tanulnom?
M: nrdekeltsg nlkl lni. Ehhez valdi lnyedet
(swarupa) megfkezhetetlen, flelem nlkli, rk
gyztesknt kell ismerned. Amint abszolt
bizonyossggal tudod, hogy semmi nem rthat
neked, csak sajt kpzeleted, eljutsz vgyaid s
flelmeid, koncepciid s ideid figyelmen kvl
hagysig, s kizrlag az igazsgot led.
K: Mi lehet az oka, hogy egyesek sikeresek, s
msok sikertelenek a Yogban? Ez a vgzetk,
illetve karakterk, vagy csak vletlensg?
M: Soha senki nem sikertelen a Yogban. Ez az
egsz az elrehalads mrtknek a problmja.
Kezdetben lass az elrehalads, s a vgre
felgyorsul. Amikor az ember teljesen megrett r, a
megvalsuls robbansszer. Spontn megtrtnik,
vagy a legcseklyebb tmutats hatsra. A gyors
nem jobb a lassnl. Lass rs gyors virgzs
vltakoznak. Mindkett termszetes s helyes.
De mindez csak az elmben jtszdik gy. Ahogy n
ltom, semmi ilyesmi nincs. A tudatossg nagy
tkrben kpek merlnek fel s tnnek el, s csak
az emlkezet ad nekik kontinuitst. s az emlkezet
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
material -- destructible, perishable, transient. On
such flimsy foundations we build a sense of personal
existence -- vague, intermittent, dreamlike. This
vague persuasion: 'I-am-so-and-so' obscures the
changeless state of pure awareness and makes us
believe that we are born to suffer and to die.
Q: Just as a child cannot help growing, so does a
man, compelled by nature, make progress. Why
exert oneself? Where is the need of Yoga?
M: There is progress all the time. Everything
contributes to progress. But this is the progress of
ignorance. The circles of ignorance may be ever
widening, yet it remains a bondage all the same. In
due course a Guru appears to teach and inspire us
to practise Yoga and a ripening takes place as a
result of which the immemorial night of ignorance
dissolves before the rising sun of wisdom. But in
reality nothing happened. The sun is always there,
there is no night to it; the mind blinded by the 'I am
the body' idea spins out endlessly its thread of
illusion.
Q: If all is a part of a natural process, where is the
need of effort?
M: Even effort is a part of it. When ignorance
becomes obstinate and hard and the character gets
perverted, effort and the pain of it become inevitable.
In complete obedience to nature there is no effort.
The seed of spiritual life grows in silence and in
darkness until its appointed hour.
Q: We come across some great people, who, in their K: Tallkozni nha nagyszer emberekkel, akik reg
old age, become childish, petty, quarrelsome and korukra gyermetegg, kicsinyess, civakodv s
spiteful. How could they deteriorate so much? gyllkdv vlnak. Hogy tudtak ennyire leromlani?
M: They were not perfect Yogis, having their bodies
under complete control. Or, they might not have
cared to protect their bodies from the natural decay.
One must not draw conclusions without
understanding all the factors. Above all, one must
not make judgements of inferiority or superiority.
Youthfulness is more a matter of vitality (prana) than
of wisdom (gnana).
Q: One may get old, but why should one lose all
alertness and discrimination?
M: Consciousness and unconsciousness, while in
the body depend on the condition of the brain. But
the self is beyond both, beyond the brain, beyond
the mind. The fault of the instrument is no reflection
on its user.
109
anyagi termszet elpusztthat, roml, ml.
Ilyen gyenge bizonytalan, kihagysos, lomszer
alapokra ptjk szemlyes ltnk rzett. Az n-
gy-s-gy-vagyok-nak ez a megbzhatatlan
meggyzdse elfedi a tiszta tudatossg vltozatlan
llapott, s elhiteti velnk, hogy szenvedsre
szlettnk, s hogy meghaljunk.
K: ppen gy, ahogy a gyermek sem segthet a
nvekedst, az ember sem knyszertheti a
termszet ellenre az elre haladst. Mirt
erlkdik? Hol a Yoga szksgessge?
M: lland a halads. Minden a haladst segti. De
ez a tudatlansg haladsa. A tudatlansg krei
llandan szlesedhetnek, mgis minden ktttsg
ugyanaz marad. A megfelel idben megjelenik a
Guru, hogy tantson, s a Yoga gyakorlsra
inspirljon, s egy rs megy vgbe, amely
eredmnyekppen a tudatlansg idtlen sttsge
szertefoszlik, a blcsessg felkel napja eltt. De
valjban semmi nem trtnik. A nap mindig ott van,
szmra nem ltezik jjel; az n a test vagyok
idetl megvakult elme nyjtja a vgtelensgig
illzijnak a fonalt.
K: Ha minden egy termszetes folyamat rsze, mirt
van szksg trekvsre?
M: Mg a trekvs is rsze. Amikor a tudatlansg
megtalkodott s ridegg vlik, s a jellem romlott
vlik, a trekvs s annak fjdalma
elkerlhetetlenn vlik. A termszet irnti teljes
megadsban nincs erfeszts. A spiritulis let
magja csendben s sttben n, annak kijellt
rjig.
M: Nem voltak tkletes, a testket teljes kontroll
alatt tart Yogik. Vagy nem tudtak gondot fordtani
testknek a termszetes romlstl val
megvdsre. Nem szabad kvetkeztetseket
levonni, minden tnyez megrtse nlkl.
Legfkppen, nem szabad tlkezni alsbbrendsg
vagy felsbbrendsg fltt. A fiatalos hv sokkal
inkbb vitalits (prana) dolga, mint a blcsessg
(gnana).
K: Az ember megregedhet, de mirt kellene
elvesztenie minden bersgt s lesltst?
M: Tudatossg s tudattalansg, amg testben vagy,
az agyi felttelektl fgg. De az n mindkett fltt
ll, az agy fltt is s az elme fltt is. Az eszkz
hibja nem hrul vissza hasznljra.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: I was told that a realised man will never do
anything unseemly. He will always behave in an
exemplary way.
M: Who sets the example? Why should a liberated
man necessarily follow conventions? The moment
he becomes predictable, he cannot be free. His
freedom lies in his being free to fulfil the need of the
moment, to obey the necessity of the situation.
Freedom to do what one likes is really bondage,
while being free to do what one must, what is right,
is real freedom.
Q: Still there must be some way of making out who
has realised and who has not. If one is
indistinguishable from the other, of what use is he?
M: He who knows himself has no doubts about it.
Nor does he care whether others recognise his state
or not. Rare is the realised man who discloses his
realisation and fortunate are those who have met
him, for he does it for their abiding welfare.
Q: When one looks round, one is appalled by the
volume of unnecessary suffering that is going on.
People who should be helped are not getting help.
Imagine a big hospital ward full of incurables,
tossing and moaning. Were you given the authority
to kill them all and end their torture, would you not
do so?
M: I would leave it to them to decide.
Q: But if their destiny is to suffer? How can you
interfere with destiny?
M: Their destiny is what happens. There is no
thwarting of destiny. You mean to say everybody's
life is totally determined at his birth? What a strange
idea. Were it so, the power that determines would
see to it that nobody should suffer.
Q: What about cause and effect?
M: Each moment contains the whole of the past and
creates the whole of the future.
Q: But past and future exist?
M: In the mind only. Time is in the mind, space is in
the mind. The law of cause and effect is also a way
of thinking. In reality all is here and now and all is
one. Multiplicity and diversity are in the mind only.
110
K: Azt hallottam, hogy egy megvalsult ember soha
semmit nem tesz helytelenl. Mindig pldamutat
mdon viselkedik.
M: Ki rja el a pldt? Mirt lenne szksges a
megszabadult embernek konvencikat kvetnie?
Abban a pillanatban, ahogy kiszmthatv vlik,
mr nem lehet szabad. Az szabadsga abban ll,
hogy lnyben szabad, hogy teljestse, amit a
pillanat megkvetel, hogy engedelmeskedjen a
szituci szksgszersgnek. A szabadsg, azt
tenni, amit az ember szeret, valjban ktttsg,
mg szabadnak lenni annak megttelben, ami
szksges, ami helyes, valdi szabadsg.
K: Mgis, kell, hogy legyen valamilyen md
megtudni, ki a megvalsult, s ki nem az. Ha az
ember nem megklnbztethet a tbbitl, annak mi
haszna szmra?
M: Aki ismeri nmagt, annak nincsenek ktelyei
errl. Nem trdik azzal, hogy msok felismerik-e az
llapott vagy sem. Ritka az a megvalsult ember,
aki feltrja megvalsultsgt, s szerencssek, akik
tallkoznak vele, mert azt az maradand
jltkrt teszi.
K: Ha az ember krbe tekint, elborzad a
szksgtelen szenvedsek nagy mennyisgtl.
Akiknek segteni kellene, nem kapnak segtsget.
Kpzelj el egy nagy krhzat, tele gygythatatlan,
hnykold s nyszrg betegekkel. Ha
megkapnd a felhatalmazst, hogy mind megld
ket, s vget vess a szenvedseiknek, megtennd,
vagy sem?
M: n rjuk hagynm a dntst.
K: De ha az sorsuk az, hogy szenvedjenek? Hogy
avatkozhatsz bele a sorsukba?
M: Az sorsuk az, ami trtnik. A sors nem
ellentmondsos. Azt akarod mondani, hogy
mindenkinek az lete a szletsekor teljesen
meghatrozott? Micsoda klns idea. Ha gy lenne,
akkor a meghatroz er gondoskodna rla, hogy
senkinek ne kelljen szenvednie.
K: Mi a vlemnyed az ok s okozatrl?
M: Minden pillanat a mlt egszt tartalmazza, s a
jv egszt teremti.
K: De ltezik mlt s jv?
M: Az elmben csak. Az id az elmben van, a tr
az elmben van. Az ok s okozat trvnye is egy
gondolkodsmd. A valsgban minden itt s most
van, s minden egy. Sokflesg s klnbzsg
csak az elmben lteznek.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: Still, you are in favour of relieving suffering, even
through destruction of the incurably diseased body.
M: Again, you look from outside while I look from
within. I do not see a sufferer, I am the sufferer. I
know him from within and do what is right
spontaneously and effortlessly. I follow no rules nor
lay down rules. I flow with life -- faithfully and
irresistibly.
Q: Still you seem to be a very practical man in full
control of your immediate surroundings.
M: What else do you expect me to be? A misfit?
Q: Yet you cannot help another much.
M: Surely, I can help. You too can help. Everybody
can help. But the suffering is all the time recreated.
Man alone can destroy in himself the roots of pain.
Others can only help with the pain, but not with its
cause, which is the abysmal stupidity of mankind.
Q: Will this stupidity ever come to an end?
M: In man -- of course. Any moment. In humanity --
as we know it -- after very many years. In creation --
never, for creation itself is rooted in ignorance;
matter itself is ignorance. Not to know, and not to
know that one does not know, is the cause of
endless suffering.
Q: We are told of the great avatars, the saviours of
the world.
M: Did they save? They have come and gone -- and
the world plods on. Of course, they did a lot and
opened new dimensions in the human mind. But to
talk of saving the world is an exaggeration.
Q: Is there no salvation for the world?
M: Which world do you want to save? The world of
your own projection? Save it yourself. My world?
Show me my world and I shall deal with it. I am not
aware of any world separate from myself, which I am
free to save or not to save. What business have you
with saving the world, when all the world needs is to
be saved from you? Get out of the picture and see
whether there is anything left to save.
111
K: De te mgis vagy olyan kegyes, hogy enyhted a
szenvedst, mg ha a gygythatatlan beteg test
elpuszttsa rn is.
M: Te megint kvlrl nzel, mg n bellrl. n nem
ltok szenvedt, n vagyok a szenved. n bellrl
ismerem t, s teszem, ami helyes, spontn s
erfeszts nlkl. Nem kvetek szablyokat, s
nem is vetem al magam szablyoknak. Az lettel
ramlok odaadan s ellenllhatatlanul.
K: Mgis egy nagyon praktikus, a kzvetlen
krnyezetedet teljes ellenrzse alatt tart
embernek ltszol.
M: Mit vrsz, mi ms legyek? Egy beilleszkedsre
kptelen embernek kellene lennem?
K: De nem nagyon tudsz a msikon segteni.
M: Biztos, hogy tudok. Te szintn tudsz segteni.
Mindenki tud segteni. De a szenveds
szakadatlanul jrateremtdik. Az ember kizrlag
sajt magban tudja elpuszttani a fjdalom
gykereit. Msok csak a fjdalommal kapcsolatban
segthetnek, de nem tudnak vltoztatni annak okn,
ami az emberisg mrhetetlenl ostobasga.
K: Ez az ostobasg vget fog rni valaha?
M: Az emberben termszetesen. Akrmelyik
pillanatban. Az emberisgben mint tudjuk
nagyon sok v mlva. A teremtsben soha, mert a
teremts eleve tudatlansgban gykerezik; a
problma maga a tudatlansg. Nem tudni, s nem
tudni, hogy az ember nem tud, a vgtelen
szenveds oka.
K: Hallottunk a nagy avatrokrl, a vilg
megmentirl.
M: Megmentettk? Eljttek s elmentek s a vilg
tovbbra is knldik. Termszetesen sokat tettek, s
j dimenzikat nyitottak az emberi elmben. De
tlzs lenne azt mondani, hogy megmentettk a
vilgot.
K: Nincs megvlts a vilg szmra?
M: Melyik vilgot akarod megvltani? A sajt
kivettsed vilgt? Azt mentsd meg magad. Az n
vilgomat? Mutasd meg nekem a vilgomat, s n a
gondjaimba veszem. n nem tudok semmilyen,
tlem klnll vilgrl, amelyet lehetsgem lenne
megmenteni, vagy nem megmenteni. Mi dolgod a
vilg megmentsvel, amikor au egsz vilgnak arra
van szksge, hogy tled legyen megmentve? Lpj
ki a kpbl, s nzd meg, vajon marad-e valamilyen
megmentenival?
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: You seem to stress the point that without you
your world would not have existed and therefore the
only thing you can do for it is to wind up the show.
This is not a way out. Even if the world were of my
own creation, this knowledge does not save it. It only
explains it. The question remains: why did I create
such a wretched world and what can I do to change
it? You seem to say: forget it all and admire your
own glory. Surely, you don't mean it. The description
of a disease and its causes does not cure it. What
we need is the right medicine.
M: The description and causation are the remedy for
a disease caused by obtuseness and stupidity. Just
like a deficiency disease is cured through the supply
of the missing factor, so are the diseases of living
cured by a good dose of intelligent detachment.
(viveka-vairagya).
Q: You cannot save the world by preaching
counsels of perfection. People are as they are. Must
they suffer?
M: As long as they are as they are, there is no
escape from suffering. Remove the sense of
separateness and there will be no conflict.
Q: A message in print may be paper and ink only. It
is the text that matters. By analysing the world into
elements and qualities we miss the most important --
its meaning. Your reduction of everything to dream
disregards the difference between the dream of an
insect and the dream of a poet. All is dream,
granted. But not all are equal.
M: The dreams are not equal, but the dreamer is
one. I am the insect. I am the poet -- in dream. But in
reality I am neither. I am beyond all dreams. I am the
light in which all dreams appear and disappear. I am
both inside and outside the dream. Just as a man
having headache knows the ache and also knows
that he is not the ache, so do I know the dream,
myself dreaming and myself not dreaming -- all at
the same time. I am what I am before, during and
after the dream. But what I see in dream, l am not.
Q: It is all a matter of imagination. One imagines that K: Ez teljesen kpzeler krdse. Az egyik azt
one is dreaming, another imagines one is not
dreaming. Are not both the same?
M: The same and not the same. Not dreaming, as
an interval between two dreams, is of course, a Part
of dreaming. Not dreaming as a steady hold on, and
timeless abidance in reality has nothing to do with
dreaming. In that sense I never dream, nor ever
112
K: gy tnik, stresszel tged az a krds, hogy
nlkled a vilgod nem ltezne, s ezrt az egyetlen
dolog, amit tehetsz rte, hogy megsznteted az
eladst. Ez nem kit. Mg ha a vilg az n sajt
teremtsem is lenne, ez a tuds nem menti meg.
Csak megmagyarzza. A krds megmarad: mirt
teremtettem ilyen boldogtalan vilgot, s mit tehetek,
hogy megvltozzon? gy tnik, azt mondod: felejts
el mindent, s csodld a sajt dicssgedet.
Bizonyra nem gy rtetted. A betegsg lersa s
okai nem gygytjk meg azt. Amire szksgnk
van, az a megfelel medicina.
M: A lers s az okozs a gygyszere a korltoltsg
s ostobasg okozta betegsgnek. Mint ahogy egy
hinybetegsg a hinyz elemek ptlsval
gygythat, gy gygythatk az l betegsgei egy
j adag intelligens elfogulatlansggal (viveka-
vairagya).
K: Nem tudod megmenteni a vilgot a tkletessg
blcsessgeirl szl prdikcival. Az emberek
olyanok amilyenek. Elkerlhetetlen, hogy
szenvedjenek?
M: Amg olyanok, amilyenek, nincs menekvs a
szenvedstl. Tvoltsd el az elklnltsg rzst,
s nem lesz tbb konfliktus.
K: Egy nyomtatott zenet nmagban lehet, hogy
csak papr s tinta. A szveg az, ami szmt. A
vilgot elemekk s minsgekk boncolva
elhibzzuk a legfontosabbat annak jelentst. A te
mindent lomm reduklsod figyelmen kvl hagyja
a rovar lma s a pota lma kztti klnbsget.
Mindegyik lom, rendben van. De nem azonosak.
M: Az lmok nem azonosak, de az lmod egy. n
vagyok a rovar. n vagyok a pota az lomban.
De a valsgban egyik sem vagyok. n minden
lmon tl vagyok. n vagyok a fny, amelyben
minden lom megjelenik s eltnik. Az lmon kvl is
s bell is vagyok. Ahogy az az ember, akinek fj a
feje, tudja, hogy fj, s azt is tudja, hogy nem a
fjdalom, gy tudok n az lomrl, a sajt lmomrl
s a nem sajt lmomrl mindegyikrl egyszerre.
n az vagyok, ami az lom eltt, alatt s utn
vagyok. De amit az lomban ltok, az nem n
vagyok.
kpzeli, hogy lmodik, a msik azt kpzeli, hogy
nem lmodik. Nem ugyanaz?
M: Ugyanaz, s nem ugyanaz. A nem lmods, kt
lom kztti intervallum, amely termszetesen az
lmods rsze. A nem lmodsnak, mint a
valsgban val folyamatos tartzkodsnak, s
idtlen idzsnek, nincs teendje az lmodssal.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
shall. Ebben az rtelemben n sohasem lmodok, s soha
nem is fogok.

Q: If both dream and escape from dream are K: Ha az lom, s az lombl val kilps egyarnt
imaginings, what is the way out? kpzelds, mi a kit?

M: There is no need of a way out. Don't you see that M: Nincs szksg kitra. Nem ltod, hogy a kit
a way out is also a part of the dream? All you have szintn rsze az lomnak? Csak annyit kell tenned,
to do is to see the dream as dream. hogy az lmot lomnak lsd.

Q: If I start the practice of dismissing everything as a K: Ha elkezdem a mindent elengeds gyakorlatt,

dream where will it lead me? lomknt hov fog engem vezetni?

M: Wherever it leads you, it will be a dream. The
very idea of going beyond the dream is illusory. Why
go anywhere? Just realise that you are dreaming a
dream you call the world, and stop looking for ways
out. The dream is not your problem. Your problem is
that you like one part of your dream and not another.
Love all, or none of it, and stop complaining. When
you have seen the dream as a dream, you have
done all that needs be done.
M: Akrhov vezet tged, lom lesz. Valjban az
lmon val tllps ideja illuzrikus. Mirt mennl
brhova? Csak ismerd fel, hogy egy vilgnak
nevezett lmot lmodsz, s fejezd be a kiutak
keresst. Nem az lom a problmd. A te
problmd az, hogy az lmod egyik rszt szereted,
s msikat nem. Szeress benne mindent, vagy ne
szeress semmit, s fejezd be a panaszkodst.
Amikor az lmot lomnak ltod, mindent megtettl,
amit tenned kellett.

Q: Is dreaming caused by thinking? K: Az lmodst a gondolkods okozza?

M: Everything is a play of ideas. In the state free
from ideation (nirvikalpa samadhi) nothing is
perceived. The root idea is: 'I am'. It shatters the
state of pure consciousness and is followed by the
innumerable sensations and perceptions, feeling
and ideas which in their totality constitute God and
His world. The 'I am' remains as the witness, but it is
by the will of God that everything happens.
M: Minden idek jtka. Fogalomalkotstl mentes
llapotban (nirvikalpa samadhi) semmit nem
szlelsz. A gykr idea az n vagyok, ami
darabokra zzza a tiszta tudatossg llapott. Ezt
megszmllhatatlan benyoms, szlels, rzkels
s idea kveti, amelyek teljessge Istent, s az
vilgt alkotjk. Az n vagyok megmarad tanknt,
de mint Isten akarata, amely ltal minden trtnik.

Q: Why not by my will? K: Mirt nem az n akaratom ltal?

M: Again you have split yourself -- into God and M: Megint felosztottad magad Istenre s tanra. A
witness. Both are one. kett egy.

30. You are Free NOW 30. MOST vagy szabad

Questioner: There are so many theories about the Krdez: Nagyon sok elmlet ltezik az ember
nature of man and universe. The creation theory, the termszetrl s az univerzumrl. A teremts
illusion theory, the dream theory -- any number of elmlet, az illzi elmlet, az lom elmlet egsz
them. Which is true? sereg van bellk. Melyik igaz?

Maharaj: All are true, all are false. You can pick up Maharaj: Mindegyik igaz, mindegyik hamis.
whichever you like best. Vlaszthatod brmelyiket, amelyik a legjobban
tetszik.

Q: You seem to favour the dream theory. K: gy tnik, te az lom elmletet fel hajlasz.

M: These are all ways of putting words together.
Some favour one way, some favour another.
Theories are neither right nor wrong. They are
attempts at explaining the inexplicable. It is not the
theory that matters, but the way it is being tested. It
is the testing of the theory that makes it fruitful.
M: Ezek a szszaports klnbz mdjai. Van, aki
az egyikre hajlik, van, aki a msikra. Az elmletek
sem nem jk, sem nem rosszak. Magyarzni
prbljk a felfoghatatlant. Nem az elmlettel van a
problma, hanem az ellenrizhetsggel. Az
elmletet a prbja teszi gymlcszv. A

113
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Experiment with any theory you like -- if you are truly
earnest and honest, the attainment of reality will be
yours. As a living being you are caught in an
untenable and painful situation and you are seeking
a way out. You are being offered several plans of
your prison, none quite true. But they all are of some
value, only if you are in dead earnest. It is the
earnestness that liberates and not the theory.
Q: Theory may be misleading and earnestness --
blind.
M: Your sincerity will guide you. Devotion to the goal
of freedom and perfection will make you abandon all
theories and systems and live by wisdom,
intelligence and active love. Theories may be good
as starting points, but must be abandoned, the
sooner -- the better.
Q: There is a Yogi who says that for realisation the
eightfold Yoga is not necessary; that will-power
alone will do. It is enough to concentrate on the goal
with full confidence in the power of pure will to obtain
effortlessly and quickly what others take decades to
achieve.
M: Concentration, full confidence, pure will. With
such assets no wonder one attains in no time. This
Yoga of will is all right for the mature seeker, who
has shed all desires but one. After all, what is will
but steadiness of heart and mind. Given such
steadfastness all can be achieved.
Q: I feel the Yogi did not mean mere steadiness of
purpose, resulting in ceaseless pursuit and
application. He meant that with will fixed on the goal
no pursuit or application are needed. The mere fact
of willing attracts its object.
M: Whatever name you give it: will, or steady
purpose, or onepointedness of the mind, you come
back to earnestness, sincerity, honesty. When you
are in dead earnest, you bend every incident, every
second of your life to your purpose. You do not
waste time and energy on other things. You are
totally dedicated, call it will, or love, or plain honesty.
We are complex beings, at war within and without.
We contradict ourselves all the time, undoing today
the work of yesterday. No wonder we are stuck. A
little of integrity would make a lot of difference.
Q: What is more powerful, desire or destiny?
114
Kiprblhatod brmelyik elmletet, amelyik tetszik
ha igazn komoly s becsletes vagy, el fogod rni
a valsgot. Te egy tarthatatlan s fjdalmas
szituciba ragadt llny vagy, aki kiutat keres.
Brtndrl klnfle alaprajzokat knlnak,
amelyek nem egszen helyesek. De valamilyen
rtke mindegyikek van, amennyiben hallosan
komoly a hozzllsod. A komolysg az, ami
felszabadt, s nem az elmlet.
K: Az elmlet lehet flrevezet, s a komolysg
vak.
M: Az szintesged az, ami segt. A szabadsg s
tkletessg cljnak szentelve magad, el fognak
maradni az elmletek s rendszerek, s letedet
blcsessggel, intelligencival, s cselekv
szeretettel fogod lni. Az elmletek jk lehetnek
kezdsnek, de el kell hagyni azokat, minl elbb,
annl jobb.
K: Van egy Yogi, aki azt mondja, hogy a
megvalsulshoz nincs szksg a nyolc fokozat
Yogra; hogy az akarater egyedl is megcsinlja.
Elegend, ha a clra koncentrlsz, a tisztasg ereje
irnti teljes bizalommal, s knnyen s gyorsan
elnyered, amit msok vtizedek alatt vltanak
valra.
M: Koncentrci, teljes bizalom, tiszta akarat. Ilyen
eszkzkkel nem csoda, hogy az ember igen rvid
id alatt clba r. Ez az akarat Yogja megfelel az
rett keresnek, aki egy kivtelvel minden vgyt
levetkzte. Vgl is, amit akar, az csak a szv s
elme szilrdsga. Ilyen llhatatossggal minden
elrhet.
K: rzsem szerint a Yogi szndka nem pusztn
az elhatrozs szntelen trekvs s elmlyeds
tjn trtn megszilrdtsa. Az lehetett a
szndka, hogy a clra irnytott akarattal se
trekvsre, se szellemi erfesztsre ne legyen
szksg. Az akaratnak a puszta tnye vonzza annak
trgyt.
M: Akrmilyen nevet adsz neki: akarat, vagy
llhatatos szndk, vagy az elme egyhegysge, a
komolysghoz, szintesghez, becsletessghez
rkezel vissza. Ha hallosan komoly vagy, leted
minden mozzanata, minden msodperce clod fel
visz. Nem pazarolsz idt s energit ms dolgokra.
Teljesen elktelezett vagy, hvd azt akaratnak, vagy
szeretetnek, vagy egyszer becsletessgnek.
Bonyolult lnyek vagyunk, akik harcban llnak kvl-
bell. Szakadatlanul ellenttbe kerlnk
nmagunkkal, ma lerombolva a tegnapi munkt.
Nem csoda, hogy megrekedtnk. Egy kis teljessg is
nagy klnbsget szokott csinlni.
K: Melyik az ersebb, a vgy vagy a sors?
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok

M: Desire shapes destiny. M: A vgy alaktja a sorsot.

Q: And destiny shapes desire. My desires are K: s a sors alaktja a vgyat. A vgyaim
conditioned by heredity and circumstances, by rkletesen s a krnyezet ltal, a lehetsgek s a
opportunities and accidents, by what we call destiny. vletlenek ltal kondicionltak, ezrt vgzetnek
nevezzk.

M: Yes, you may say so. M: Igen, mondhatod gy is.

Q: At what point am I free to desire what I want to K: Mely ponttl ll szabadsgomban arra vgyni,
desire? amire vgyni akarok?

M: You are free now. What is it that you want to M: Most szabad vagy. Mire akarsz vgyni? Vgyj
desire? Desire it. arra.

Q: Of course I am free to desire, but I am not free to K: Termszetesen szabadon vgyakozhatok, de

act on my desire. Other urges will lead me astray. nem vagyok szabad aszerint cselekedni. Ms
My desire is not strong enough, even if it has my knyszerek eltr irnyba fognak engem vezetni.
approval. Other desires, which I disapprove of are Nem elg ersek a vgyaim, hiba fogadom el ket.
stronger. Ms helytelentett vgyaim ersebbek.

M: Maybe you are deceiving yourself. Maybe you M: Lehet, hogy becsapod magad. Lehet, hogy
are giving expression to your real desires and the megnyilvnulnak valdi vgyaid, s amelyeket
ones you approve of are kept on the surface for the helyeselsz kzlk, azok maradnak a felsznen, a
sake of respectability. tisztessg miatt.

Q: It may be as you say, but this is another theory.
The fact is that I do not feel free to desire what I
think I should, and when I seem to desire rightly, I do
not act accordingly.
K: Lehet, hogy gy van, ahogy mondtad, de ez
msik elmlet. Az a helyzet, hogy nem rzem, hogy
szabadna arra vgyni, amire gy gondolom, hogy
kellene, s amikor gy tnik, helyes vgyaim
vannak, nem cselekszem annak megfelelen.

M: It is all due to weakness of the mind and
disintegration of the brain. Collect and strengthen
your mind and you will find that your thoughts and
feelings, words and actions will align themselves in
the direction of your will.
M: Mindezt az elme gyengesge, s az agy
dezintegrcija okozza. Szedd ssze, s erstsd
meg az elmdet, s megltod, hogy gondolataid s
rzseid, szavaid s tetteid, akaratod irnytsnak
megfelelen egymshoz fognak hangoldni.

Q: Again a counsel of perfection. To integrate and K: Megint egy tkletesedsi tancs. Az elme
strengthen the mind is not an easy task. How does integrlsa s erstse nem knny feladat.
one begin? Hogyan kell elkezdeni?

M: You can start only from where you are. You are M: Csak onnan indulhatsz, ahol vagy. Te itt s most
here and now, you cannot get out of here and now. vagy, nem lphetsz ki az itt s mostbl.

Q: But what can I do here and now? K: De mit tehetek itt s most?

M: You can be aware of your being -- here and now. M: Tudatban lehetsz ltezsednek itt s most.

Q: That is all? K: Ez minden?

M: That is all. There is nothing more to it. M: Ez minden. Semmi egyb nem kell hozz.

Q: All my waking and dreaming I am conscious of K: Valamennyi brenltem s lmom sorn

myself. It does not help me much. tudatban vagyok nmagamnak. Ez nem sokat segt
rajtam.

M: You were aware of thinking, feeling, doing. You M: Tudatban voltl a gondolkodsnak, rzsnek,
were not aware of your being. cselekvsnek. Nem voltl tudatban a ltezsednek.

115
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: What is the new factor you want me to bring in?
M: The attitude of pure witnessing, of watching the
events without taking part in them.
Q: What will it do to me?
M: Weak-mindedness is due to lack of intelligence,
of understanding, which again is the result of non-
awareness. By striving for awareness you bring your
mind together and strengthen it.
Q: I may be fully aware of what is going on, and yet
quite unable to influence it in any way.
M: You are mistaken. What is going on is a
projection of your mind. A weak mind cannot control
its own projections. Be aware, therefore, of your
mind and its projections. You cannot control what
you do not know. On the other hand, knowledge
gives power. In practice it is very simple. To control
yourself -- know yourself.
Q: Maybe, I can come to control myself, but shall I
be able to deal with the chaos in the world?
M: There is no chaos in the world, except the chaos
which your mind creates. It is self-created in the
sense that at its very centre is the false idea of
oneself as a thing different and separate from other
things. In reality you are not a thing, nor separate.
You are the infinite potentiality; the inexhaustible
possibility. Because you are, all can be. The
universe is but a partial manifestation of your
limitless capacity to become.
Q: I find that I am totally motivated by desire for
pleasure and fear of pain. However noble my desire
and justified my fear, pleasure and pain are the two
poles between which my life oscillates.
M: Go to the source of both pain and pleasure, of
desire and fear. Observe, investigate, try to
understand.
Q: Desire and fear both are feelings caused by
physical or mental factors. They are there, easily
observable. But why are they there? Why do l desire
pleasure and fear pain?
M: Pleasure and pain are states of mind. As long as M: A fjdalom s az rm az elme llapotai.
you think you are the mind, or rather, the body-mind, Mindaddig, amg azt gondolod, hogy te vagy az
you are bound to raise such questions.
116
K: Milyen j tnyezt akarsz, hogy vezessek?
M: A tiszta tansg attitdjt, hogy az esemnyeket
anlkl nzd, hogy rszt vennl bennk.
K: Mit fog ez tenni velem?
M: Az elmegyengsget az intelligencia, a megrts
hinya okozza, ami szintn a nem tudatossg
eredmnye. A tudatossgra val trekvssel
elmdet sszetartod, s ersted.
K: Lehet, hogy teljesen tudatban vagyok annak,
ami trtnik, s mgsem vagyok kpes azt
semmilyen mdon befolysolni.
M: Flrertesz. Ami trtnik, az elmd projekcija. A
gyenge elme nem tudja kontrolllni sajt
projekcijt. Kvetkezskppen, vlj tudatoss
elmdre, s annak projekciira. Nem tudsz uralkodni
azon, amirl nem tudsz. Msfell, a tuds ert ad. A
gyakorlatban ez nagyon egyszer. Hogy uralkodj
nmagadon ismerned kell magad.
K: Lehet, hogy el tudok jutni az nkontrollig, de
kpes leszek-e kezelni a koszt a vilgban?
M: Nincs kosz a vilgban, kivve azt a koszt,
amelyet elmd teremt. Ez egy maga teremtette
kosz, abban az rtelemben, hogy kells kzepben
nmaga hamis ideja ll, mint egy olyan dolog,
amely a tbbi dologtl klnbzik, s elklnl.
Valjban nem vagy sem dolog, sem klnll. Te a
vgtelen potencialits vagy; a kimerthetetlen
lehetsg. A te lted miatt lehet minden. Az
univerzum csupn egy rszleges megnyilvnulsa
te valamiv vlsod hatrtalan kapacitsnak.
K: gy tallom, hogy engem abszolt motivl az
rm utni vgy, s a fjdalomtl val flelem.
Brmennyire is nemesek a vgyaim, s indokoltak a
flelmeim, letem rm s a fjdalom plusai kztt
oszcilll.
M: Menj el minden fjdalom s rm, vgy s
flelem forrshoz. Figyeld meg, tanulmnyozd,
prbld megrteni.
K: Mind a vgy, mind a flelem testi vagy mentlis
tnyezk miatt keletkez rzsek. Ott vannak,
knnyen megfigyelhetk. De mirt vannak ott? Mirt
vgyok az rmre, s flek a fjdalomtl?
elme, helyesebben szlva a test-elme, ilyen
krdsekhez fogsz ktdni.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: And when I realise that I am not the body, shall I
be free from desire and fear?
M: As long as there is a body and a mind to protect
the body, attractions and repulsions will operate.
They will be there, out in the field of events, but will
not concern you. The focus of your attention will be
elsewhere. You will not be distracted.
Q: Still they will be there. Will one never be
completely free?
M: You are completely free even now. What you call
destiny (karma) is but the result of your own will to
live. How strong is this will you can judge by the
universal horror of death.
Q: People die willingly quite often.
M: Only when the alternative is worse than death.
But such readiness to die flows from the same
source as the will to live, a source deeper even than
life itself. To be a living being is not the ultimate
state; there is something beyond, much more
wonderful, which is neither being nor non-being,
neither living nor notliving. It is a state of pure
awareness, beyond the limitations of space and
time. Once the illusion that the body-mind is oneself
is abandoned, death loses its terror, it becomes a
part of living.
31. Do not Undervalue Attention
Questioner: As I look at you, you seem to be a poor Krdez: Amint ltom, te egy szegny, nagyon
man with very limited means, facing all the problems korltozott anyagi eszkzkkel rendelkez ember
of poverty and old age, like everybody else. vagy, aki, mint mindenki ms, szembesl az regkor
s a szegnysg sszes problmjval.
Maharaj: Were I very rich, what difference would it
make? I am what I am. What else can I be? I am
neither rich nor poor, I am myself.
Q: Yet, you are experiencing pleasure and pain.
M: I am experiencing these in consciousness, but I
am neither consciousness, nor its content.
Q: You say that in our real being we are all equal.
How is it that your experience is so different from
ours.
M: My actual experience is not different. It is my
evaluation and attitude that differ. I see the same
world as you do, but not the same way. There is
nothing mysterious about it. Everybody sees the
world through the idea he has of himself. As you
think yourself to be, so you think the world to be. If
you imagine yourself as separate from the world, the
117
K: s amikor felismerem, hogy nem a test vagyok,
meg fogok szabadulni a vgytl s a flelemtl?
M: Ameddig van a test, s van a testet vdelmez
elme, addig vonzsok s tasztsok mkdnek. Ott
lesznek, az esemnyek tern kvl, de nem fognak
tged rintetni. A figyelmed fkusza msutt lesz.
Nem leszel zavartatva.
K: De mg mindig ott lesznek. Az ember sose lehet
teljesen szabad?
M: Teljesen szabad vagy, e pillanatban is. Amit te
sorsnak (karma) nevezel, az csak sajt lni
akarsod eredmnye. Hogy milyen ers ez az
akarat, arra a halltl val univerzlis irtzsbl
kvetkeztethetsz.
K: Az emberek elg ritkn halnak meg szvesen.
M: Csak amikor az alternatva rosszabb a hallnl.
De az ilyen hallra val kszenlt ugyanabbl a
forrsbl ered, mint az lni akars, egy olyan
forrsbl, amely magnl az letnl is mlyebb.
llnynek lenni nem a vgs stdium; azon tl van
valami sokkal csodlatosabb, ami sem ltez, sem
nem ltez, sem l, sem lettelen. A tiszta
tudatossg llapota, tl tr s id korltain. Amint a
test-elmvel val azonossg illzijt elhagyod, a
hall elveszti rmuralmt, az let rszv vlik.
31. Ne becsld le a figyelmet
Maharaj: Ha nagyon gazdag lennk, az miben
jelentene klnbsget? Az vagyok, ami vagyok. Mi
egyb lehetnk? Nem vagyok sem gazdag, sem
szegny, nmagam vagyok.
K: De mgis tapasztalsz rmt s fjdalmat.
M: n ezeket a tudatossgban tapasztalom, de n
sem a tudatossg, sem annak tartalma nem vagyok.
K: Azt mondod, hogy valdi ltnkben mindannyian
egyenlk vagyunk. Hogyan lehetsges, hogy a te
tapasztalatod annyira klnbzik a mienktl?
M: A valsgos tapasztalatom nem tr el a
tietektl. A kirtkelsem s az attitdm, az, ami
eltr. Ugyanazt a vilgot ltom, mint ti, de nem
ugyanolyan mdon. Nincs ebben semmi titokzatos.
A vilgot mindenki az nmagrl alkotott iden
keresztl ltja. Mivel nmagadat ltezek gondolod,
gy a vilgot is lteznek gondolod. Ha gy kpzeled
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
world will appear as separate from you and you will
experience desire and fear. I do not see the world as
separate from me and so there is nothing for me to
desire, or fear.
Q: You are a point of light in the world. Not
everybody is.
M: There is absolutely no difference between me
and others, except in my knowing myself as I am. I
am all. I know it for certain and you do not.
Q: So we differ all the same.
M: No, we do not. The difference is only in the mind
and temporary. I was like you, you will be like me.
Q: God made a most diversified world.
M: The diversity is in you only. See yourself as you
are and you will see the world as it is -- a single
block of reality, indivisible, indescribable. Your own
creative power projects upon it a picture and all your
questions refer to the picture.
Q: A Tibetan Yogi wrote that God creates the world
for a purpose and runs it according to a plan. The
purpose is good and the plan is most wise.
M: All this is temporary, while I am dealing with the
eternal. Gods and their universes come and go,
avatars follow each other in endless succession, and
in the end we are back at the source. I talk only of
the timeless source of all the gods with all their
universes, past, present and future.
Q: Do you know them all? Do you remember them?
M: When a few boys stage a play for fun, what is
there to see and to remember?
Q: Why is half humanity male and half female?
M: For their happiness. The impersonal (avyakta)
becomes the personal (vyakta) for the sake of
happiness in relationship. By the grace of my Guru I
can look with equal eye on the impersonal as well as
the personal. Both are one to me. In life the personal
merges in the impersonal.
Q: How does the personal emerge from the
impersonal?
M: The two are but aspects of one Reality. It is not
118
el nmagad, hogy a vilgtl elklnlsz, akkor a
vilg gy fog megjelenni, mint ami elklnl tled, s
vgyat s flelmet fogsz tapasztalni. n nem ltom
klnllnak tlem a vilgot, s gy szmomra
semmi nem kvnatos, vagy flelmetes.
K: Te egy vilgt pont vagy a vilgban. Nem
mindenki az.
M: Abszolt semmi klnbsg nincs kztem s
msok kztt, azon kvl, hogy n n vagyokknt
ismerem magam. n vagyok minden. n ezt
bizonyosan tudom, te pedig nem.
K: Teht mgis klnbznk.
M: Nem, nem klnbznk. A klnbsg csak az
elmben van, s csak tmenetileg. Olyan voltam,
mint te, olyan leszel, mint n.
K: Isten a lehet legvltozatosabb vilgot teremtette.
M: A vltozatossg benned csupn van. Lsd
magad, ahogy vagy, s gy fogod ltni a vilgot,
ahogy az van a valsg egyetlen oszthatatlan,
lerhatatlan tmbjeknt. A te tulajdon kreatv erd
vetti r a kpet, s minden krdsed a kpre
vonatkozik.
K: Egy tibeti Yogi rta, hogy Isten cllal teremtette a
vilgot, s tervszeren mkdteti. A cl j, s a terv
a legblcsebb.
M: Mindez tmeneti jelleg, ezzel szemben n az
rkkvalval foglalkozom. Istenek s univerzumaik
jelennek meg s tnnek el, avatrok kvetik
egymst vgtelen sorban, s a vgn visszatrnk a
forrsba. n csak az sszes istenek s sszes
univerzumaik mltjnak, jelennek s jvjnek az
idtlen forrsrl beszlek.
K: Ismered mindet? Emlkszel rjuk?
M: Amikor nhny gyerek sznre visz egy
darabot,hogy szrakozzanak, mit kell ott ltni s
emlkezni?
K: A fl emberisg mirt frfi, s a fele n?
M: A boldogsguk rdekben. A szemlytelen
(avyakta) szemlyess (vyakta) vlik a kapcsolatbeli
boldogsg kedvrt. Gurum kegyelmbl azonosan
tudom tekinteni a szemlytelent, s a szemlyest.
Egyek szmomra. Az letben a szemlyes
sszeolvad a szemlytelennel.
K: A szemlyes hogyan emelkedik ki a
szemlytelenbl?
M: Ezek csak aspektusai az egyetlen Valsgnak.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
correct to talk of one preceding the other. All these
ideas belong to the waking state.
Q: What brings in the waking state?
M: At the root of all creation lies desire. Desire and
imagination foster and reinforce each other. The
fourth state (turiya) is a state of pure witnessing,
detached awareness, passionless and wordless. It is
like space, unaffected by whatever it contains.
Bodily and mental troubles do not reach it -- they are
outside, 'there', while the witness is always 'here'.
Q: What is real, the subjective or the objective? I am
inclined to believe that the objective universe is the
real one and my subjective psyche is changeful and
transient. You seem to claim reality for your inner,
subjective states and deny all reality to the concrete,
external world.
M: Both the subjective and the objective are
changeful and transient. There is nothing real about
them. Find the permanent in the fleeting, the one
constant factor in every experience
Q: What is this constant factor?
M: My giving it various names and pointing it out in
many ways will not help you much, unless you have
the capacity to see. A dim-sighted man will not see
the parrot on the branch of a tree, however much
you may prompt him to look. At best he will see your
pointed finger. First purify your vision, learn to see
instead of staring, and you will perceive the parrot.
Also you must be eager to see. You need both
clarity and earnestness for self-knowledge. You
need maturity of heart and mind, which comes
through earnest application in daily life of whatever
little you have understood. There is no such thing as
compromise in Yoga.
If you want to sin, sin wholeheartedly and openly.
Sins too have their lessons to teach the earnest
sinner, as virtues -- the earnest saint. It is the mixing
up the two that is so disastrous. Nothing can block
you so effectively as compromise, for it shows lack
of earnestness, without which nothing can be done.
Q: I approve of austerity, but in practice I am all for
luxury. The habit of chasing pleasure and shunning
pain is so ingrained in me, that all my good
intentions, quite alive on the level of theory, find no
roots in my day-to-day life. To tell me that I am not
119
Nem helyes az a megfogalmazs, hogy az egyik
megelzi a msikat. Mindkt idea a felbredett
llapothoz tartozik.
K: Mi visz a felbredett llapotba?
M: Minden teremtsnek vgy a gykere. A vgy s a
kpzelet egymst tplljk s erstik. A negyedik
llapot (turiya) a tiszta tansg elfogulatlanul ber,
szenvedlytelen s szavakkal ki nem fejezhet
llapota. Olyan, mint a tr, amely semmi ltal nem
befolysolt, akrmit foglal magban. Testi s
mentlis zavarok nem rintik azok, ott kvl
vannak, mg a tansg mindig itt van.
K: Melyik valsgos, a szubjektv, vagy az objektv?
Hajlamos vagyok azt hinni, hogy az objektv
univerzum az egyetlen valsg, szubjektv pszichm
pedig vltozkony s muland. Te viszont, amint
ltom, bels, szubjektv llapotaidat tekinted
valsgnak, s elutastod minden realitst a
kzzelfoghat, kls vilgnak.
M: A szubjektv s az objektv, egyarnt vltozkony
s muland. Semmi nem valdi, ami velk
kapcsolatos. Keresd llandt a mulandban, az
egyetlen vltozatlan tnyezt minden
tapasztalatban.
K: Mi ez a vltozatlan tnyez?
M: A klnfle nevek adsa, s a sokfle mdon
val rmutats nem sok segtsget jelent szmodra,
hacsak nem rendelkezel a lts kpessgvel. A
homlyosan lt ember nem fogja ltni az gon l
papagjt, akrmennyire is sztnzd t a nzsre. A
legjobb esetben a mutatujjadat ltja. Elbb tiszttsd
meg a ltsodat, tanulj meg nzni bmszkods
helyett, s meg fogod ltni a papagjt. Ezenfell
trelmesnek is kell lenned, hogy lss. Az
nismerethez tisztasgra is, s komolysgra is
szksg van. Szksg van a szv s az elme
rettsgre, amely a mindennapi komoly
alkalmazson keresztl bred fel, brmi kevss is
rted. A Yogban nincs kompromisszum.
Ha vtkezni akarsz, teljes szvvel s nyltan vtkezz.
A vtkeknek is megvan a maguk feladata, tantani a
komoly vtkezt, miknt az ernyeknek is a
komoly szentlett. E kett sszetvesztse
vgzetes dolog. Semmi nem blokkolhat oly
hatkonyan, mint a kompromisszum, mert az a
komolysg hinyt mutatja, amely nlkl semmi nem
vihet vgbe.
K: Helyeslem a mrtkletessget, de gyakorlatilag
kt kzzel kapok a luxus utn. Az lvezet
hajszolsnak s a fjdalom elkerlsnek a
szoksa annyira belm ivdott, hogy sszes j
clom, melyek elmleti szinten teljesen elevenek,
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
honest does not help me, for I just do not know how
to make myself honest.
M: You are neither honest nor dishonest -- giving
names to mental states is good only for expressing
your approval or disapproval. The problem is not
yours -- it is your mind's only. Begin by
disassociating yourself from your mind. Resolutely
remind yourself that you are not the mind and that its
problems are not yours.
Q: I may go on telling myself: 'I am not the mind, I
am not concerned with its problems,' but the mind
remains and its problems remain just as they were.
Now, please do not tell me that it is because I am
not earnest enough and I should be more earnest. I
know it and admit it and only ask you -- how is it
done?
M: At least you are asking. Good enough, for a start.
Go on pondering, wondering, being anxious to find a
way. Be conscious of yourself, watch your mind,
give it your full attention. Don't look for quick results;
there may be none within your noticing. Unknown to
you, your psyche will undergo a change, there will
be more clarity in your thinking, charity in your
feeling, purity in your behaviour. You need not aim
at these -- you will witness the change all the same.
For, what you are now is the result of inattention and
what you become will be the fruit of attention.
Q: Why should mere attention make all the
difference?
M: So far your life was dark and restless (tamas and
rajas). Attention, alertness, awareness, clarity,
liveliness, vitality, are all manifestations of integrity,
oneness with your true nature (sattva). It is in the
nature of sattva to reconcile and neutralise tamas
and rajas and rebuild the personality in accordance
with the true nature of the self. Sattva is the faithful
servant of the self; ever attentive and obedient.
Q: And I shall come to it through mere attention?
M: Do not undervalue attention. It means interest
and also love. To know, to do, to discover, or to
create you must give your heart to it -- which means
attention. All the blessings flow from it.
Q: You advise us to concentrate on 'I am'. Is this too K: Azt tancsolod, koncentrljunk a vagyok-ra. Ez
a form of attention? is a figyelem egy formja?
M: What else? Give your undivided attention to the
120
nem eresztenek gykeret htkznapi letemben. Ha
rm olvassk, hogy nem vagyok becsletes, az nem
segt rajtam, mert pp azt nem tudom, hogyan vljak
becsletess.
M: Sem becsletes, sem becstelen nem vagy a
mentlis llapotok elnevezse csak elfogadsod
vagy eltlsed kifejezsre j. A problma nem a te
problmd elmd csupn. Kezdd magad
elklnteni az elmdtl. Eltklten emlkeztesd
magad, hogy te nem az elme vagy, s hogy annak
problmi nem a tieid.
K: Mondogathatom magamnak: n nem az elme
vagyok, nem rintenek annak problmi, de az
elme megmarad, s a problmi is megmaradnak,
ppen, ahogy voltak. Ne mondd azt most nekem,
krlek, hogy nem vagyok elg komoly, s vljak
komolyabb. Ezt n tudom, s el is fogadom, csak
azt krdezem tled hogyan kell ezt csinlni?
M: Legalbb krdezel. Ez megfelel, kiindulsnak.
Tovbbra is legyl elmlked, kvncsi, az tkeress
sorn. Lgy tudatban nmagadnak, figyeld
elmdet, szenteld neki teljes figyelmedet. Ne vrj
gyors eredmnyeket; azok nem biztos, hogy
szrevehetk lesznek szmodra. Ismeretlenl is azt
mondom, pszichd vltozson fog keresztlmenni,
gondolkodsod sokkal vilgosabb vlik, rzseidbe
jindulat, magatartsodba tisztasg kltzik. Nem
kell clul kitznd mgis fogod tapasztalni ezeket a
vltozsokat. Mert ami most vagy, az
figyelmetlensg eredmnye, s amiv vlsz, az
figyelem gymlcse lesz.
K: Mirt kellene mr, az egsz klnbsget a puszta
figyelemnek hozza ltre?
M: Ez ideig leted stt s nyugtalan (tamas s
rajas) volt. A figyelem, az elvigyzatossg, az
bersg, a tisztasg, az elevensg, az
letkpessg, mind a te igaz termszeteddel
(sattva) val integrits, egysg megnyilvnulsa. A
sattva termszete, hogy lecsillaptja s semlegesti a
tamast s a rajast, s a helyrelltja a szemlyisget
az n igaz termszetnek megfelelen. A Sattva, az
n hsges szolgja; llandan figyelmes s
engedelmes.
K: s ezt puszta figyelemmel fogom elrni?
M: Ne becsld al a figyelmet. rdekldst jelent, s
szeretetet is. A tuds, cselekvs, felfedezs, vagy
teremts rdekben a szvedet kell adnod ami
figyelmet jelent. Minden lds ebbl ered.
M: Mi ms lenne? Szenteld osztatlan figyelmedet
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
most important in your life -- yourself. Of your
personal universe you are the centre -- without
knowing the centre what else can you know?
Q: But how can I know myself? To know myself I
must be away from myself. But what is away from
myself cannot be myself. So, it looks that I cannot
know myself, only what I take to be myself.
M: Quite right. As you cannot see your face, but only
its reflection in the mirror, so you can know only your
image reflected in the stainless mirror of pure
awareness.
Q: How am I to get such stainless mirror?
M: Obviously, by removing stains. See the stains
and remove them. The ancient teaching is fully valid. foltokat, s tvoltsd el ket. Az si tants teljes
Q: What is seeing and what is removing?
M: The nature of the perfect mirror is such that you
cannot see it. Whatever you can see is bound to be
a stain. Turn away from it, give it up, know it as
unwanted.
Q: All perceivables, are they stains?
M: All are stains.
Q: The entire world is a stain.
M: Yes, it is.
Q: How awful. So, the universe is of no value?
M: It is of tremendous value. By going beyond it you
realise yourself.
Q: But why did it come into being in the first
instance?
M: You will know it when it ends.
Q: Will it ever end?
M: Yes, for you.
Q: When did it begin?
M: Now.
Q: When will it end?
M: Now.
121
annak, ami az letedben a legfontosabb
nmagadnak. Szemlyes univerzumodnak te vagy a
kzpontja a kzpont ismeretn kvl mi egyebet
kellene mg tudnod?
K: De hogy ismerhetem meg nmagam? nmagam
megismershez el kell tvolodnom nmagamtl.
De ami tvol van nmagamtl, az nem lehet
nmagam. gy ltszik, teht, hogy nem ismerhetem
meg nmagam, csak azt, aminek tartom magam.
M: Kitn. Ahogy a sajt arcodat sem lthatod, csak
annak tkrbli tkrkpt, ppgy csak a tiszta
tudatossg makultlan tkrben tkrzd kpedet
lthatod.
K: Hogyan juthatok ilyen makultlan tkrhz?
M: Kzenfekv, a foltok eltvoltsval. Lsd a
mrtkben igaz.
K: Mi a lts s mi az eltvolts?
M: A tkletes tkrt, a termszetbl fakadan,
nem ltod. Brmi, amit ltsz, a folttal kapcsolatos.
Utastsd el, add fel, ismerd fel, mint nemkvnatost.
K: Minden folt, ami szlelhet?
M: Mindegyikk folt.
K: Az egsz vilg folt.
M: Igen, az.
K: Micsoda borzalom. Teht az univerzum
rtktelen?
M: Ennek risi rtke van. A rajta val tllpssel
valstod meg nmagad.
K: De mirt szletett meg, az els alkalommal?
M: Tudni fogod, amikor vget r.
K: Vget r valaha?
M: Igen, szmodra.
K: Mikor kezddtt?
M: Most.
K: Mikor lesz vge?
M: Most.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: It does not end now?
M: You don't let it.
Q: I want to let it.
M: You don't. All your life is connected with it. Your
past and future, your desires and fears, all have their
roots in the world. Without the world where are you,
who are you?
Q: But that is exactly what I came to find out.
M: And I am telling you exactly this: find a foothold
beyond and all will be clear and easy.
32. Life is the Supreme Guru
Questioner: We two came from far off countries;
one of us is British, the other American. The world in
which we were born is falling apart and, being
young, we are concerned. The old people hope they
will die their own death, but the young have no such
hope. Some of us may refuse to kill, but none can
refuse to be killed. Can we hope to set the world
right within our lifetime?
Maharaj: What makes you think that the world is
going to perish?
Q: The instruments of destruction have become
unbelievably potent. Also, our very productivity has
become destructive of nature and of our cultural and
social values.
M: You are talking of the present times. It has been
so everywhere and always. But the distressing
situation may be temporary and local. Once over, it
will be forgotten.
Q: The scale of the impending catastrophe is
unbelievably big. We live in the midst of an
explosion.
M: Each man suffers alone and dies alone. Numbers M: Minden ember egyedl szenved, s egyedl hal
are irrelevant. There is as much death when a meg. A szmoknak nincs jelentsgk. Ugyanannyi
million die as when one perishes. a hall, mikor millik halnak, s amikor egy pusztul
el.
Q: Nature kills by the millions, but this does not
frighten me. There may be tragedy or mystery in it,
but no cruelty. What horrifies me is man-made
suffering, destruction and desolation. Nature is
magnificent in its doings and undoings. But there is
meanness and madness in the acts of man.
122
K: Mirt nem r vget most?
M: Nem hagyod.
K: Azt akarom, hogy vge legyen.
M: Nem akarod. Az egsz leted sszefgg vele.
Mltad s jvd, vgyaid s flelmeid, mind a
vilgban gykereznek. A vilg nlkl hol lennl, ki
lennl?
K: De pontosan ezrt jttem ide, hogy megtalljam.
M: s n pontosan errl beszlek: keress egy
talpalatnyi helyet rajta kvl, s minden tiszta lesz,
s knny.
32. Az let a Legfbb Guru
Krdez: Mi ketten egy tvoli orszgbl jttnk;
egyiknk angol, msikunk amerikai. A vilg
amelyben szlettnk darabokra hullik, s fiatalok
lvn, aggdunk emiatt. Az ids emberek,
remnyeik szerint, maguktl halnak meg, de a
fiatalok nem remlnek ilyet. Nmelyiknk
elutasthatja, hogy ljn, de azt, hogy t megljk,
senki nem tudja elhrtani. Remlhetjk a vilg jra
fordulst, mg a mi letnk alatt?
Maharaj: Mi ksztet arra, hogy azt gondold, hogy a
vilg el fog pusztulni?
K: A pusztt eszkzk ereje hihetetlen mrtkben
megntt. Ezen fell, termelsnk egyre inkbb
rombol hatssal van a termszetre, valamint
kulturlis s trsadalmi rtkeinkre.
M: Ti most a jelenrl beszltek. gy volt ez mindig,
s mindenhol. De a lehangol helyzet lehet, hogy
idleges s loklis. Egyszer vge lesz, s el fogjtok
felejteni.
K: Hihetetlenl nagyarny katasztrfa kszbn
llunk. Egy hatalmas robbans kzepette lnk.
K: A termszetet millik gyilkoljk, de engem ez
nem riaszt. Lehet tragikus vagy rejtlyes, de ne
legyen kegyetlen. Ami elborzaszt, az az ember ltal
keltett szenveds, rombols s pusztts. A
termszet fennklt mdon cselekszik, akr ltrehoz,
akr pusztt. De az ember cselekedetei
hitvnysggal s rlettel vannak tele.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
M: Right. So, it is not suffering and death that are M: Rendben. Teht nem a szenveds s a hall a
your problem, but the meanness and madness at problmd, hanem azok gykere, a hitvnysg s
their root. Is not meanness also a form of madness? az rlet. Nemde a hitvnysg is az rlet egy
And is not madness the misuse of the mind? formja? s nemde az rlet az elme tves
Humanity's problem lies in this misuse of the mind hasznlata? Az emberisg problmja csupn az
only. All the treasures of nature and spirit are open elme ilyetn val tves hasznlatban rejlik. A
to man who will use his mind rightly. termszet s a szellem minden kincse feltrul azon
ember szmra, aki az elmjt helyesen hasznlja.

Q: What is the right use of mind? K: Hogyan kell az elmt helyesen hasznlni?

M: Fear and greed cause the misuse of the mind. M: Flelem s kapzsisg az oka az elme helytelen
The right use of mind is in the service of love, of life, hasznlatnak. Az elme helyes hasznlata a szeret,
of truth, of beauty. az let, az igazsg, a szpsg szolglatt jelenti.

Q: Easier said than done. Love of truth, of man, K: Knnyebb mondani, mint csinlni. Az igazsg
goodwill -- what luxury. We need plenty of it to set szeretete, az ember szeretete, jakarat micsoda
the world right, but who will provide? fnyzs. Sok kell ezekbl ahhoz, hogy a vilg
jobb vljon, de ki az, aki ezekrl gondoskodik?

M: You can spend an eternity looking elsewhere for
truth and love, intelligence and goodwill, imploring
God and man -- all in vain. You must begin in
yourself, with yourself -- this is the inexorable law.
You cannot change the image without changing the
face. First realise that your world is only a reflection
of yourself and stop finding fault with the reflection.
Attend to yourself, set yourself right -- mentally and
emotionally. The physical will follow automatically.
You talk so much of reforms: economic, social,
political. Leave alone the reforms and mind the
reformer. What kind of world can a man create who
is stupid, greedy, heartless?
M: Egy rkkvalsgot is eltlthetsz az igazsg s
szeretet, intelligencia s jakarat keressvel,
esedezve Istennek s embernek teljesen
haszontalanul. Magadban, magaddal kell kezdened
ez az engesztelhetetlen trvny. Nem tudod
megvltoztatni a kpet, az arc megvltoztatsa
nlkl. Elszr ismerd fel, hogy vilgod csak
nmagad tkrzdse, s hagyd abba a tkrkp
kritizlst. Magaddal trdj, magadat hozd rendbe
mentlis s emocionlis llapotodat. A testi
kvetni fogja, automatikusan. Oly sokat beszlsz
reformokrl: gazdasgi, szocilis, politikai
reformokrl. Hagyd a reformokat, s trdj a
reformerrel. Mifle vilg teremthet olyan embert,
amely ostoba, kapzsi, szvtelen?

Q: If we have to wait for a change of heart, we shall
have to wait indefinitely. Yours is a counsel of
perfection, which is also a counsel of despair. When
all are perfect, the world will be perfect. What
useless truism.
K: Ha a szv vltozsra kell vrnunk, akkor a
vgtelensgig kell vrnunk. A te blcsessged a
tkletessg blcsessge, amely egyben a
lemonds blcsessge is. Amikor minden tkletes,
akkor az egsz vilg tkletes lesz. Micsoda
haszontalan kzhely.

M: I did not say it. I only said: You cannot change
the world before changing yourself. I did not say --
before changing everybody. It is neither necessary,
nor possible to change others. But if you can change
yourself you will find that no other change is needed.
To change the picture you merely change the film,
you do not attack the cinema screen.
M: n nem ezt mondtam. n csak azt mondtam:
nem vltoztathatod meg a vilgot, nmagad
megvltoztatsa eltt. Nem azt mondtam azt, hogy
mindenki megvltozatsa eltt. Nem szksges, s
nem is lehetsges msokat megvltoztatni. De ha
nmagadat meg tudod vltoztatni, gy fogod tallni,
hogy semmilyen ms vltozsra nincs szksg. A
kp megvltoztatshoz csak a filmet kell
kicserlned, nem kell megrohamoznod a
filmvsznat.

Q: How can you be so sure of yourself? How do you K: Hogy lehetsz ennyire biztos nmagadban?
know that what you say is true? Honnan tudod, hogy amit mondasz, az igaz?

M: It is not of myself that I am sure, I am sure of you. M: Nem nmagam az, amiben biztos vagyok,
All you need is to stop searching outside what can benned vagyok biztos. Mindssze az szksges,
be found only within. Set your vision right before you hogy hagyd abba, hogy kvl keresed, ami csak

123
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
operate. You are suffering from acute
misapprehension. Clarify your mind, purify your
heart, sanctify your life -- this is the quickest way to
a change of your world.
Q: So many saints and mystics lived and died. They
did not change my world.
M: How could they? Your world is not theirs, nor is
their yours.
Q: Surely there is a factual world common to all.
M: The world of things, of energy and matter? Even
if there were such a common world of things and
forces, it is not the world in which we live. Ours is a
world of feelings and ideas, of attractions and
repulsions, of scales of values, of motives and
incentives, a mental world altogether. Biologically we
need very little, our problems are of a different order.
Problems created by desires and fears and wrong
ideas can be solved only on the level of the mind.
You must conquer your own mind and for this you
must go beyond it.
Q: What does it mean to go beyond the mind.
M: You have gone beyond the body, haven't you?
You do not closely follow your digestion, circulation
or elimination. These have become automatic. In the
same way the mind should work automatically,
without calling for attention. This will not happen
unless the mind works faultlessly. We are, most of
our time mind and body-conscious, because they
constantly call for help. Pain and suffering are only
the body and the mind screaming for attention. To
go beyond the body you must be healthy: To go
beyond the mind, you must have your mind in
perfect order. You cannot leave a mess behind and
go beyond. The mess will bog you up. 'Pick up your
rubbish' seems to be the universal law. And a just
law too.
Q: Am I permitted to ask you how did you go beyond K: Megengeded, hogy megkrdezzem, hogy te
the mind? hogyan haladtad meg az elmdet?
M: By the grace of my Guru.
Q: What shape his grace took?
M: He told me what is true.
Q: What did he tell you?
M: He told me I am the Supreme Reality.
Q: What did you do about it?
124
bell tallhat. Hozd rendbe a ltsodat, mieltt
operlsz. Akut flrertstl szenvedsz. Vilgostsd
meg elmdet, tiszttsd meg szvedet, szenteld meg
letedet ez a leggyorsabb mdja a vilg
megvltoztatsnak.
K: Olyan sok szent s misztikus lt, s halt meg
anlkl, hogy megvltoztatta volna a vilgot.
M: Hogyan tehettk volna? A te vilgod nem az
vk, sem az vk nem a tid.
K: Biztos, hogy van egy trgyi vilg, amely mindenki
szmra kzs.
M: Dolgok, energia s anyag vilga? Mg ha lenne
is a dogoknak s erknek egy ilyen kzs vilga, az
nem az a vilg, amelyben mi lnk. A mi vilgunk az
rzsek s idek, vonzsok s tasztsok,
rtkrendek, motivcik s serkentk vilga,
mindent egybevetve egy mentlis vilg. Biolgiailag
nagyon kevsre van szksgnk, a mi problmink
ms rendek. A problmk a vgyak s flelmek
miatt keletkeznek, s rossz idek csak az elme
szintjn oldhatk meg. Le kell gyznd sajt
elmdet, s ehhez meg kell azt haladni.
K: Mit jelent az elme meghaladsa?
M: A testet mr meghaladtad, nemde? Mr nem
ksred szoros figyelemmel az emsztst, a
keringst vagy az elvlasztst. Ezek automatikuss
vltak. Ugyangy kell az elme munkjnak is
automatikuss, odafigyels nlkliv vlnia. Ez nem
kvetkezik be, hacsak az elme munkja hibtlann
nem vlik. Idnk legnagyobb rszben elme- s
testtudatosak vagyunk, mivel ezek llandan
segtsgrt kiltanak. A fjdalom s a szenveds
csak figyelemrt vistoz test s elme. A test
meghaladshoz egszsgesnek kell lenned: az
elme meghaladshoz elmdnek tkletesen
rendben kell lennie. Nem lehet rendetlensget
magad utn hagyva tovbblpni. A rendetlensg el
fog nyelni. A szedd ssze a szemetedet univerzlis
trvnynek tnik. s igazsgosnak is.
M: Gurum kegyelmbl.
M: Milyen formt lttt az kegyelme?
M: Elmondta nekem, hogy mi az igazsg.
K: Mit mondott?
M: Azt mondta, n vagyok a Legfelsbb Realits.
K: Mihez kezdtl vele?
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
M: I trusted him and remembered it.
Q: Is that all?
M: Yes, I remembered him; I remembered what he
said.
Q: You mean to say that this was enough?
M: What more needs be done? It was quite a lot to
remember the Guru and his words. My advice to you
is even less difficult than this -- just remember
yourself. 'I am', is enough to heal your mind and take
you beyond. Just have some trust. I don't mislead
you. Why should l? Do I want anything from you. I
wish you well -- such is my nature. Why should I
mislead you? Commonsense too will tell you that to
fulfil a desire you must keep your mind on it. If you
want to know your true nature, you must have
yourself in mind all the time, until the secret of your
being stands revealed.
Q: Why should self-remembrance bring one to self-
realisation?
M: Because they are but two aspects of the same
state. Selfremembrance is in the mind, self-
realisation is beyond the mind. The image in the
mirror is of the face beyond the mirror.
Q: Fair enough. But what is the purpose?
M: To help others, one must be beyond the need of
help.
Q: All I want is to be happy.
M: Be happy to make happy.
Q: Let others take care of themselves.
M: Sir, you are not separate. The happiness you
cannot share is spurious. Only the shareable is truly
desirable.
Q: Right. But do I need a Guru? What you tell me is
simple and convincing. I shall remember it. This
does not make you my Guru.
M: it is not the worship of a person that is crucial, but
the steadiness and depth of your devotion to the
task. Life itself is the Supreme Guru; be attentive to
its lessons and obedient to its commands. When you
personalise their source, you have an outer Guru;
when you take them from life directly, the Guru is
within. Remember, wonder, ponder, live with it, love
it, grow into it, grow with it, make it your own -- the
word of your Guru, outer or inner. Put in all and you
125
M: Hittem benne, s az eszembe vstem.
K: Ez minden?
M: Igen, hittem benne; eszembe vstem, amit
mondott.
K: Azt akarod mondani, hogy ennyi elg volt?
M: Mit kellett volna mg tenni, ezen kvl? pp elg
volt a Gurura s szavaira emlkezni. Az a tancs,
amit neked adok, ennl mg kevsb bonyolult
csak emlkezz nmagadra. Az n vagyok
elegend, hogy elmdet meggygytsd, majd
meghaladd. Csak egy kis hitre van szksg. Nem
csaplak be. Mirt tennm? Taln akarok valamit
tled? Jt kvnok neked ez a termszetem. Mirt
vezetnlek flre? A jzan sz szerint is, ha
teljesteni akarsz egy vgyat, akkor az eszedben kell
tartanod. Ha meg akarod ismerni igazi
termszetedet, llandan szben kell tartanod
nmagad, amg lted titka fel nem trul.
K: Mirt kell az nemlkezsnek nmegvalstst
eredmnyeznie?
M: Mert ez csak kt aspektusa ugyanannak az
llapotnak. Az nemlkezs az elmben van, az
nmegvalsts az elmn tl. A tkrben lv kp, a
tkrn tli arc.
K: Elg rthet. De mi a cl?
M: A msokon val segtsghez meg kell, hogy
haladd a segtsg irnti szksget.
K: Csupn boldog akarok lenni.
M: Lgy boldog, hogy boldogsgot teremts.
K: Mindenki gondoskodjon nmagrl.
M: n nem klnll, Uram. Amely boldogsg nem
megoszthat, helytelen. Csak a megoszthat igazn
kvnatos.
K: Rendben. De kell nekem Guru? Amit mondasz
egyszer s meggyz. Megjegyezem az
elmondottakat. Ettl nem leszel a Gurum.
M: Nem a szemly imdata a lnyeges, hanem a
feladat irnti odaadsod szilrdsga s a mlysge.
Maga az let a Legfelsbb Guru; gyelj a tle kapott
leckkre, s engedelmeskedj parancsainak. A
forrsuk megszemlyestsekor van kls Gurud;
amikor kzvetlenl az lettl veszed azokat, akkor a
Guru bell van. Tartsd eszedben, csodld, elmlkedj
rajta, lj vele, szeresd, nj bele, nj vele, tedd
sajtodd a szavt a Gurunak, legyen az akr
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
will get all. I was doing it. All my time I was giving to
my Guru and to what he told me.
Q: I am a writer by profession. Can you give me
some advice, for me specifically?
M: Writing is both a talent and a skill. Grow in talent
and develop in skill. Desire what is worth desiring
and desire it well. Just like you pick your way in a
crowd, passing between people, so you find your
way between events, without missing your general
direction. It is easy, if you are earnest.
Q: So many times you mention the need of being
earnest. But we are not men of single will. We are
congeries of desires and needs, instincts and
promptings. They crawl over each other, sometimes
one, sometimes another dominating, but never for
long.
M: There are no needs, desires only.
Q: To eat, to drink, to shelter one's body; to live?
M: The desire to live is the one fundamental desire.
All else depends on it.
Q: We live, because we must.
M: We live, because we crave sensory existence.
Q: A thing so universal cannot be wrong.
M: Not wrong, of course. In its own place and time
nothing is wrong. But when you are concerned with
truth, with reality, you must question every thing,
your very life. By asserting the necessity of sensory
and intellectual experience you narrow down your
enquiry to search for comfort.
Q: I seek happiness, not comfort.
M: Beyond comfort of mind and body what
happiness do you know?
Q: Is there any other?
M: Find out for yourself. Question every urge, hold
no desire legitimate. Empty of possession, physical
and mental, free of all self-concern, be open for
discovery.
Q: It is a part of Indian spiritual tradition that mere
living in the proximity of a saint or sage is conducive
126
kls, akr bels. Adj bele mindent, s megkapsz
mindent. n megcsinltam. Minden idmet
Gurumnak szenteltem, s annak, amit mondott
nekem.
K: A foglalkozsom r. Tudsz valamilyen
kifejezetten nekem szl tancsot adni?
M: Az rs kpessg, egyben szakrtelem. Nveld
kpessgedet s fejleszd szakrtelmedet. Vgyj
arra, ami vgyakozsra rdemes, s vgyakozz jl.
Ahogy az utadat keresed a tmegben, az emberek
kztt haladva, gy keresd utadat az esemnyek
kztt, f irnyod elhibzsa nlkl. Ez knny, ha
komoly vagy.
K: Sokszor emlted a komolysg szksgessgt.
De mi nem vagyunk ppen egy akarat emberek.
Egy halom vgy s szksglet, hajlam s sztn
vagyunk. Egymson tcsapva hol egyik, hol msik
dominl, de sohasem sokig.
M: Nincsenek szksgletek, csak vgyak vannak.
K: Az evs, ivs, a testrl val gondoskods, maga
az let nem az?
M: Az lni vgys az egyetlen alapvet vgy.
Minden ms ennek fggvnye.
K: Azrt lnk, mert muszj.
M: Azrt lnk, mert szksgnk van az rzki
ltezsre.
K: Ami ennyire univerzlis, nem lehet rossz.
M: Termszetesen nem rossz. A sajt helyn s
idejn semmi nem rossz. De amikor az igazsg, a
valsg rdekel, meg kell vizsglnod minden dolgot,
az egsz letedet. Ha azt lltod, hogy rzki s
intellektulis tapasztalatra van szksg, akkor
cskken a knyelem keresse irnti rdekldsed
szerepe.
K: Boldogsgot keresek, nem knyelmet.
M: Elme s test knyelmn tl milyen boldogsgra
gondolsz?
K: Van valami ms?
M: Fedezd fel te magad. Krdjelezz meg minden
sztnzst, ne tekintsd a vgyat jogosnak. Vlj meg
tulajdonaidtl, testiektl s szellemiektl, szabadulj
meg minden nrdektl, lgy nyitott a felfedezsre.
K: Ez az indiai spiritulis tradci rsze, ami szerint
egyszeren egy szent vagy blcs kzelsgben lni
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
to liberation and no other means are needed. Why
don't you organise an Ashram so that people could
live near you?
M: The moment I create an institution I become its
prisoner. As a matter of fact I am available to all.
Common roof and food will not make people more
welcome. 'Living near' does not mean breathing the
same air. It means trusting and obeying, not letting
the good intentions of the teacher go to waste. Have
your Guru always in your heart and remember his
instructions -- this is real abidance with the true.
Physical proximity is least important. Make your
entire life an expression of your faith and love for
your teacher -- this is real dwelling with the Guru.
33. Everything Happens by Itself
Questioner: Does a gnani die?
Maharaj: He is beyond life and death. What we take
to be inevitable -- to be born and to die -- appears to
him but a way of expressing movement in the
Immovable, change in the changeless, end in the
endless. To the gnani it is obvious that nothing is
born and nothing dies, nothing lasts and nothing
changes, all is as it is -- timelessly.
Q: You say the gnani is beyond. Beyond what?
Beyond knowledge?
M: Knowledge has its rising and setting.
Consciousness comes into being and goes out of
being. It is a matter of daily occurrence and
observation. We all know that sometimes we are
conscious and sometimes not. When we are not
conscious, it appears to us as a darkness or a blank.
But a gnani is aware of himself as neither conscious
nor unconscious, but purely aware, a witness to the
three states of the mind and their contents.
Q: When does this witnessing begin?
M: To a gnani nothing has beginning or ending. As
salt dissolves in water, so does everything dissolve
into pure being. Wisdom is eternally negating the
unreal. To see the unreal is wisdom. Beyond this lies
the inexpressible.
Q: There is in me the conviction: 'I am the body'
Granted, I am talking from unwisdom. But the state
of feeling oneself the body, the body-mind, the mind-
body, or even pure mind -- when did it begin?
M: You cannot speak of a beginning of
consciousness. The very ideas of beginning and
time are within consciousness. To talk meaningfully
127
mr szabadsghoz vezet, s nincs szksg ms
eszkzre. Mirt nem szervezel egy Ashramot, gy az
emberek a kzeledben lhetnnek?
M: Amint ltrehozok egy intzetet, a rabjv vlok.
Tulajdonkppen rendelkezsre llok mindenkinek.
Kzs tet s tel nem nyjtana tbbet az
embereknek. A kzelben ls nem jelenti, hogy
ugyanazt a levegt kell szvni. Jelent viszont hitet s
engedelmessget, hogy nem hagyod elfecsrldni a
tant j szndkt. Gurud tartsd mindig a
szvedben, s tantsait az eszedben ez az
igazsgban val valdi tartzkods. A testi kzelsg
kevsb fontos. Tedd egsz letedet tantd irnti
hited s szereteted kifejezdsv ez a Guruval
val valdi egyttlt.
33. Minden magtl trtnik
Krdez: Meghal a gnani?
Maharaj: meghaladta az letet s a hallt. Amit
mi elkerlhetetlennek hisznk a szlets s a hall
, az szmra csak a mozdulatlanban val mozgs,
a vltozatlanban val vltozs, a vg nlkliben val
vg egy kifejezsi mdja. A gnani szmra
nyilvnval, hogy semmi nem szletik s semmi
nem hal meg, semmi nem maradand s semmi
nem vltozik, minden az ami idtlenl.
K: Beszltl a gnani meghaladsrl. Mit haladott
meg? Meghaladta a tudst?
M: A tudsnak keletkezik, s elmlik. A tudatossg
letre kel, s megsznik ltezni. Ez naponta
megtrtnik, s megfigyelhet. Mindannyian tudjuk,
hogy olykor tudatosak vagyunk, s nmelykor nem.
A nem tudatos llapot a mi szmunkra sttsgnek
vagy ressgnek tnik. Egy gnani viszont tudatban
van nmagnak, amint sohasem tudatos vagy
tudattalan, hanem teljesen ber, tanja az elme
hrom llapotnak, s azok tartalmnak.
K: Mikor kezddik ez a tansg?
M: A gnani szmra semminek nincs kezdete, vagy
vge. Ahogy a s felolddik a vzben, gy olddik fel
minden a tiszta ltben. A blcsessg szntelen
tagadja a valtlant. Ltni a valtlant, az blcsessg.
Ezen tl a kifejezhetetlen van.
K: Meggyzdsem: n a test vagyok. Elismerem,
ezt oktalansgom miatt mondom. De mikor kezdte el
az ember rzkelni a test, a test-elme, az elme-test,
st mi tbb, a tiszta elme llapott?
M: Nem beszlhetsz a tudatossg kezdetrl. A
kezdet s az id idei a tudatossgon belliek. Hogy
rtelmes mdon beszlhess valaminek a kezdetrl,
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
of the beginning of anything, you must step out of it.
And the moment you step out, you realise that there
is no such thing and never was. There is only reality,
in which no thing' has any being on its own. Like
waves are inseparable from the ocean, so is all
existence rooted in being.
Q: The fact is that here and now I am asking you:
when did the feeling 'I am the body' arise? At my
birth? or this morning?
M: Now.
Q: But I remember having it yesterday too.
M: The memory of yesterday is now only.
Q: But surely I exist in time. I have a past and a
future.
M: That is how you imagine -- now.
Q: There must have been a beginning.
M: Now.
Q: And what about ending?
M: What has no beginning cannot end.
Q: But I am conscious of my question.
M: A false question cannot be answered. It can only
be seen as false.
Q: To me it is real.
M: When did it appear real to you? Now.
Q: Yes, it is quite real to me -- now.
M: What is real about your question? It is a state of
mind. No state of mind can be more real than the
mind itself. Is the mind real? It is but a collection of
states, each of them transitory. How can a
succession of transitory states be considered real?
Q: Like beads on a string, events follow events -- for K: Mint egy gyngysor szemei, gy kvetik egymst
ever.
M: They are all strung on the basic idea: 'I am the
body'. But even this is a mental state and does not
last. It comes and goes like all other states. The
illusion of being the body-mind is there, only
because it is not investigated. Non-investigation is
the thread on which all the states of mind are strung.
It is like darkness in a closed room. It is there --
apparently. But when the room is opened, where
does it go? It goes nowhere, because it was not
128
ki kell lpned belle. s abban a pillanatban, hogy
kilptl, felismered, hogy nincs ilyen dolog, s soha
nem is volt. Csak valsg van, amelyben nincs
olyan dolog, amelynek sajt lte lenne. Mint ahogy
a hullmok elvlaszthatatlanok az centl, gy az
egsz ltezs is a ltben gykerezik.
K: A tny, hogy itt s most krdezlek tged: mikor
keletkezett az n a test vagyok rzse?
Szletsemkor? Vagy ma reggel?
M: Most.
K: De n emlkszem, hogy tegnap is megvolt.
M: A tegnap emlkezete is csak most van.
K: De n minden ktsgen fell idben ltezem.
Mltam van, s jvm.
M: Ezt kpzeled most.
K: Kellett lennie egy kezdetnek.
M: Most.
K: s mi van a vggel?
M: Aminek nincs kezdete, az nem rhet vget.
K: De n tudatban vagyok a krdsemnek.
M: Egy hamis krdst nem lehet megvlaszolni. Azt
csak hamisnak lehet ltni.
K: Szmomra valsgos.
M: Mikor jelent meg szmodra valsgosknt? Most.
K: Igen, teljesen vals szmomra most.
M: Hogyan tekinthetnnk valsnak a krdsedet?
Az egy elmellapot. Semmilyen elmellapot nem
lehet valsgosabb, mint az elme maga. Az elme
valsgos? Csak llapotok kollekcija, amelyek
mindegyike ml termszet. Hogyan lehetne ml
llapotok sort valsnak tekinteni?
az esemnyek rkkn-rkk.
M: Mindegyikk az n a test vagyok alap idera
van felfzve. Azonban mg ez is egy mentlis
llapot, s nem tarts. Megjelenik s eltnik, akr a
tbbi llapot. A test-elme ltnek illzija csak azrt
lehetsges, mert nem tanulmnyoztad. A
tanulmnyozatlansg fonalra van felfzve az elme
sszes llapota. Ez olyan, mint a zrt szobban lv
sttsg. Ott van ltszlag. De amikor az ajt
kinylik, hov tnik? Sehov, mert nem volt ott. Az
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
there. All states of mind, all names and forms of
existence are rooted in non-enquiry, non-
investigation, in imagination and credulity. It is right
to say 'I am', but to say 'I am this', 'I am that' is a sign
of not enquiring, not examining, of mental weakness
or lethargy.
elme minden llapota, a ltezs nevei s formi a
nem-kutatsban, a nem-vizsglatban, a
kpzeldsben s a hiszkenysgben gykereznek.
Helynval azt mondani, hogy n vagyok, de azt
mondani, hogy ez vagyok, az vagyok a nem-
kutats, a nem-vizsglat, a mentlis gyengesg,
vagy letargia jele.

Q: If all is light, how did darkness arise? How can K: Ha minden fny, hogyan keletkezett a sttsg?
there be darkness in the midst of light? Hogy lehet sttsg a fny kzepette?

M: There is no darkness in the midst of light. Self-
forgetfulness is the darkness. When we are
absorbed in other things, in the not-self, we forget
the self. There is nothing unnatural about it. But, why
forget the self through excess of attachment?
Wisdom lies in never forgetting the self as the ever-
present source of both the experiencer and his
experience.
M: Nincs sttsg a fny kzepette. Az nnkrl
val megfeledkezs a sttsg. Amikor
belefeledkeznk ms dolgokba, a nem-nbe, akkor
feledkeznk el az nrl. Semmi abnormlis nincs
ebben. De mirt kell elfeledkezni az nrl
mrtktelen ktds ltal? A blcsessg abban ll,
hogy soha nem feledkeznk el az nrl, mint a
tapasztalnak s tapasztalatnak rkk jelenlv
forrsrl.

Q: In my present state the 'I am the body' idea K: Jelen llapotomban az n a test vagyok idea
comes spontaneously, while the 'I am pure being' spontn megjelenik, mg a tiszta lt vagyok idet az
idea must be imposed on the mind as something elmre kell erltetnem, mint valamilyen igaz, de nem
true but not experienced. tapasztalt dolgot.

M: Yes, sadhana (practice) consists in reminding
oneself forcibly of one's pure 'being-ness', of not
being anything in particular, nor a sum of particulars,
not even the totality of all particulars, which make up
a universe. All exists in the mind, even the body is
an integration in the mind of a vast number of
sensory perceptions, each perception also a mental
state. If you say: 'I am the body', show it.
M: Igen, a sadhana (gyakorls) abban ll, hogy az
ember erteljesen emlkezteti magt tiszta
ltezsg-re, nem valami konkrt dolognak a
ltre, sem a rszek sszessgnek a ltre, de mg
csak nem is az univerzumot alkot rszek
sszessgnek a ltre. Minden az elmben ltezik,
mg a test is risi mennyisg rzki szlelet
elmebeli integrcija, brmilyen szlelet szintn egy
mentlis llapot. Ha azt mondod: n a test vagyok,
mutasd meg.

Q: Here it is. K: Itt van.

M: Only when you think of it. Both mind and body
are intermittent states. The sum total of these
flashes creates the illusion of existence. Enquire
what is permanent in the transient, real in the unreal.
This is sadhana.
M: Csak akkor, amikor r gondolsz. Mind az elme,
mind a test, idszakos llapotok. Felvillansaik
sszessge hozza ltre a ltezs illzijt. Kutasd,
hogy mi az, ami nem vltozik az tmenetiben, ami
valdi a valtlanban. Ez a sadhana.

Q: The fact is that I am thinking of myself as the K: Az a helyzet, hogy gy gondolkozom magamrl,
body. mint testrl
.
M: Think of yourself by all means. Only don't bring M: Termszetes, hogy gondolkozol magadrl. Csak
the idea of a body into the picture. There is only a ne hozd be a kpbe a test idejt. Csak
stream of sensations, perceptions, memories and benyomsok, szleletek, emlkek s
ideations. The body is an abstraction, created by our fogalomkpzsek rama ltezik. A test egy
tendency to seek unity in diversity -- which again is absztrakci, amit a klnbzsgben val egysg
not wrong. keressi hajlamunk teremt ami szintn nem hiba.

Q: I am being told that to think 'I am the body' is a K: Azt mondjk, hogy az n a test vagyok gondolat
blemish in the mind. az elme fogyatkossga.

M: Why talk like this? Such expressions create M: Mirt mondjk ezt? Az ilyen megnyilvnulsok
problems. The self is the source of all, and of all -- miatt keletkeznek a problmk. Az n a forrsa

129
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
the final destination. Nothing is external.
Q: When the body idea becomes obsessive, is it not
altogether wrong?
M: There is nothing wrong in the idea of a body, nor
even in the idea 'I am the body'. But limiting oneself
to one body only is a mistake. In reality all existence,
every form, is my own, within my consciousness. I
cannot tell what I am because words can describe
only what I am not. I am, and because I am, all is.
But I am beyond consciousness and, therefore, in
consciousness I cannot say what I am. Yet, I am.
The question 'Who am I' has no answer. No
experience can answer it, for the self is beyond
experience.
Q: Still, the question 'Who am I' must be of some
use.
M: It has no answer in consciousness and,
therefore, helps to go beyond consciousness.
Q: Here I am -- in the present moment. What is real
in it, and what is not? Now, please don't tell me that
my question is wrong. Questioning my questions
leads me nowhere.
M: Your question is not wrong. It is unnecessary.
You said: 'Here and now I am'. Stop there, this is
real. Don't turn a fact into a question. There lies your
mistake. You are neither knowing nor not-knowing,
neither mind nor matter; don't attempt to describe
yourself in terms of mind and matter.
Q: Just now a boy came to you with a problem. You
told him a few words and he went away. Did you
help him?
M: Of course.
Q: How can you be so sure?
M: To help is my nature.
Q: How did you come to know It?
M: No need to know. It operates by itself.
Q: Still you have made a statement. On what is it
based?
M: On what people tell me. But it is you who asks for
proofs. I do not need them. Setting things right lies in
my very nature, which is satyam, shivam, sundaram
(the true, the good, the beautiful).
130
mindennek, s mindennek a vgllomsa. Semmi
nem klsleges.
K: Amikor a test ideja rgeszmss vlik, az nem
vgkpp rossz?
M: Semmi rossz nincs a test ideban, st, mg
abban az ideban sem, hogy n a test vagyok. De
az, hogy valaki csak a testre korltozza magt, az
hiba. Valjban minden ltezs, minden forma a
sajtom, a tudatossgomon belli. Nem tudom
megmondani, mi vagyok, mert a szavak csak azt
tudjk lerni, hogy mi nem vagyok. Vagyok, s azrt
van minden, mert vagyok. Azonban a tudatossg
felett ll vagyok, emiatt a tudatossgban nem
tudom megmondani, hogy mi vagyok. De vagyok. A
ki vagyok krdsre nincs vlasz. Semmilyen
tapasztalat nem nyjthat r vlaszt, mert az n
tapasztalaton tli.
K: A ki vagyok krdsnek mgis kell, hogy legyen
valamilyen haszna.
M: Nincs r vlasz a tudatossgban, s ezrt segt
tllpni a tudatossgon.
K: Itt vagyok a jelen pillanatban. Mi a valsg
ebben, s mi nem az? Most, lgy szves, nehogy azt
mondd, hogy a krdsem rossz. A krdseim
megkrdjelezsvel nem megyek semmire.
M: A krdsed nem rossz. Flsleges. Azt mondtad:
itt s most vagyok. Maradj ott, ez valsgos. Ne
alaktsd t a tnyt krdss. Ebben rejlik a hibd. Te
sem tud, sem nem-tud, sem elme, sem anyag
nem vagy; ne prbld magad az elme s az anyag
kifejezseivel lerni.
K: Nemrg egy fi jtt hozzd egy problmval.
Miutn mondtl neki nhny szt, elment. Segtettl
neki?
M: Termszetesen.
K: Hogy lehetsz ebben olyan biztos?
M: A termszetemhez tartozik a segts.
K: Hogyan jutottl ehhez a tudshoz?
M: Nincs szksg tudsra. Ez magtl mkdik.
K: Mgis tettl egy kijelentst. Mire alapoztad?
M: Arra, amit az emberek mondanak nekem. De te
vagy az, aki bizonytkokat kr. Nekem nincs
szksgem r. A dolgok jobbtsa az n valdi
termszetembl fakad, amely a satyam, shivam,
sundaram (az igaz, a j, a szp).
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: When a man comes to you for advice and you
give him advice, wherefrom does it come and by
what power does it help?
M: His own being affects his mind and induces a
response.
Q: And what is your role?
M: In me the man and his self come together.
Q: Why does not the self help the man without you?
M: But I am the self. You imagine me as separate,
hence your question. There is no 'my self' and 'his
self'. There is the Self, the only Self of all. Misled by
the diversity of names and shapes, minds and
bodies, you imagine multiple selves. We both are
the self, but you seem to be unconvinced. This talk
of personal self and universal self is the learner's
stage; go beyond, don't be stuck in duality.
Q: Let us come back to the man in need of help. He
comes to you.
M: If he comes, he is sure to get help. Because he
was destined to get help, he came. There is nothing
fanciful about it. I cannot help some and refuse
others. All who come are helped, for such is the law.
Only the shape help takes varies according to the
need.
Q: Why must he come here to get advice? Can't he
get it from within?
M: He will not listen. His mind is turned outward. But
in fact all experience is in the mind, and even his
coming to me and getting help is all within himself.
Instead of finding an answer within himself, he
imagines an answer from without. To me there is no
me, no man and no giving. All this is merely a flicker
in the mind. I am infinite peace and silence in which
nothing appears, for all that appears -- disappears.
Nobody comes for help, nobody offers help, nobody
gets help. It is all but a display in consciousness.
Q: Yet the power to help is there and there is
somebody or something that displays that power,
call it God or Self or the Universal Mind. The name
does not matter, but the fact does.
M: This is the stand the body-mind takes. The pure
mind sees things as they are -- bubbles in
consciousness. These bubbles are appearing,
131
K: Amikor valaki tancsrt jn hozzd, s te adsz
neki, honnan szrmazik a tancs, s milyen er ltal
mkdik a segtsg?
M: Az sajt lte hat az elmjre s induklja a
vlaszt.
K: s mi a te szereped?
M: Bennem az ember s nje egyeslnek.
K: Mirt nem segt az n az embernek nlkled?
M: De ht n vagyok az n. Te engem elklnltnek
hiszel, innen ered a krdsed. Nem ltezik olyan,
hogy n nem s nje. Az n a mindenki
egyetlen nje. Flrevezettetve a nevek s formk,
elmk s testek vltozatossg ltal, azt hiszed, hogy
tbb n van. Mindannyian az n vagyunk, de gy
ltszik, te ktelkedsz ebben. Ez a beszlgets a
szemlyes nrl s univerzlis nrl a tanulsi
stdium; hatolj a mlyre, ne ragadj a dualitsba.
K: Trjnk vissza arra az emberre, akinek segtsg
kell. Eljn hozzd.
M: Ha eljn, akkor biztos, hogy kap segtsget. Mivel
segtsget kapni hivatott, eljtt. Nincs ebben semmi
klns. Nem tudok egyeseken segteni, msokat
pedig visszautastani. Mindenki aki idejn,
segtsget kap, mert ilyen a szeretet. Csak a
segtsg formja vltozik a szksgnek
megfelelen.
K: Mirt kell neki a tancsrt idejnnie? Nem
kaphatja meg azt bellrl?
M: Nem hallan meg. Az elmje kifel fordult. De
tulajdonkppen minden tapasztals az elmben
zajlik, gy ht az, hogy eljn hozzm, s segtsget
kap, mind nmagn bell van. Ahelyett, hogy a
vlaszt nmagn bell keresn, azt kpzeli, hogy a
vlasz kvlrl jn. Szmomra nincs n, nincs ember
s nincs ads. Mindez pusztn fel-fellobbans az
elmben. n vgtelen bke s csend vagyok,
amelyben semmi nem jelenik meg, mert minden, ami
megjelenik semmiv lesz. Senki nem jn
segtsgrt, senki nem nyjt segtsget, senki nem
kap segtsget. Mindez csak egy megnyilvnuls a
tudatossgban.
K: Mgis a segt er ltezik, s van valaki vagy
valami, ami megnyilvntja ezt az ert, nevezd azt
Istennek vagy nnek, vagy az Univerzlis Elmnek.
A nv nem szmt, csak a tny.
M: Ezt az llspontot a test-elme vallja. A tiszta elme
a dolgokat gy ltja, ahogy vannak buborkoknak
a tudatossgban. Ezek a buborkok megjelennek,
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
disappearing and reappearing -- without having real
being. No particular cause can be ascribed to them,
for each is caused by all and affects all. Each bubble
is a body and all these bodies are mine.
Q: Do you mean to say, that you have the power to
do everything rightly?
M: There is no power as separate from me. It is
inherent in my very nature. Call it creativity. Out of a
lump of gold you can make many ornaments -- each
will remain gold. Similarly, in whatever role I may
appear and whatever function I may perform -- I
remain what I am: the 'I am' immovable, unshakable,
independent. What you call the universe, nature, is
my spontaneous creativity. Whatever happens --
happens. But such is my nature that all ends in joy.
Q: I have a case of a boy gone blind because his
stupid mother fed him methyl alcohol. I am
requesting you to help him. You are full of
compassion and, obviously, eager to help. By what
power can you help him?
M: His case is registered in consciousness. It is
there -- indelibly. Consciousness will operate.
Q: Does it make any difference that I ask you to
help?
M: Your asking is a part of the boy's blindness.
Because he is blind, you ask. You have added
nothing.
Q: But your help will be a new factor?
M: No, all is contained in the boy's blindness. All is
in it -- the mother, the boy, you and me and all else.
It is one event.
Q: You mean to say that even our discussing the
boy's case was predestined?
M: How else? All things contain their future. The boy
appears in consciousness. I am beyond. I do not
issue orders to consciousness. I know that it is in the
nature of awareness to set things right. Let
consciousness look after its creations. The boy's
sorrow, your pity, my listening and consciousness
acting -- all this is one single fact -- don't split it into
components and then ask questions.
Q: How strangely does your mind work?
132
eltnnek, s megint megjelennek anlkl, hogy
vals lttel brnnak. Semmilyen konkrt ok nem
tulajdonthat nekik, mert minden oka mindennek s
minden hat mindenre. Mindegyik bubork egy test,
s mindezen testek az enymek.
K: Azt akarod mondani, hogy brsz a hibtlan
cselekvs hatalmval?
M: Nem ltezik tlem hatalom rajtam kvl. Ez rsze
a termszetemnek. Nevezd alkotkpessgnek. Egy
aranyrgbl sok dsztrgy kszthet mind
megmarad aranynak. Ehhez hasonlan,
megjelenhetek brmifle szerepben, s betlthetek
akrmilyen funkcit az maradok, aki vagyok: a
mozdulatlan, rendthetetlen, fggetlen n vagyok.
Amit te univerzumnak, termszetnek nevezel, az
nem ms, mint az n spontn alkotkpessgem.
Brmi trtnik megtrtnik. De a termszetem
szerint minden boldogsghoz vezet.
K: Hallottam egy esetet egy firl, aki megvakult,
mert a buta anyja metilalkoholt itatott vele. Krlek,
segts rajta. Te teli vagy knyrlettel, s
nyilvnval, hogy szvesen segtesz. Milyen hatalom
ltal tudsz rajta segteni?
M: A fi esett nyilvntartsba vette a tudatossg.
Benne van kitrlhetetlenl. A tudatossg meg
fogja oldani.
K: Vltoztat valamin a krsem, hogy segts?
M: A krsed a fi vaksgnak a rsze. Krsed a
vaksgnak a kvetkezmnye. Nem adtl hozz
semmit.
K: A te segtsged viszont j tnyez lenne?
M: Nem, mindent a fi vaksga foglal magban.
Minden abban van benne az anya, a fi, te s n,
s minden ms. Ez egyetlen esemny.
K: Azt akarod mondani, hogy mg az is eleve
elrendelt volt, hogy beszltnk a fi esetrl?
M: Hogyan lehetne mskpp? Minden dolog
magban foglalja a jvjt. A fi a tudatossgban
jelenik meg. n meghaladtam azt. n nem
osztogatok elrsokat a tudatossgnak. Tudom,
hogy az bersgnek termszete a dolgok rendbe
hozsa. Gondoskodjon a tudatossg a sajt
teremtmnyeirl. A fi bnata, a te sajnlatod, az n
hallgatsom s a tudatossg cselekedete mindez
egyetlen dolog ne oszd fel rszeire, s ne tegyl fel
utna krdseket.
K: Hogy te milyen furcsn gondolkodsz.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
M: You are strange, not me. I am normal. I am sane. M: Te vagy furcsa, nem n. n normlis vagyok. p
I see things as they are, and therefore l am not az elmm. n a dolgokat gy ltom, ahogy vannak,
afraid of them. But you are afraid of reality. ezrt nem flek tlk. Te viszont flsz a valsgtl.
Q: Why should l?
M: It is ignorance of yourself that makes you afraid
and also unaware that you are afraid. Don't try not to s az is tudatlansg, amitl flsz. Ne a nem flsre
be afraid. Break down the wall of ignorance first.
People are afraid to die, because they do not know
what is death. The gnani has died before his death,
he saw that there was nothing to be afraid of. The
moment you know your real being, you are afraid of
nothing. Death gives freedom and power. To be free
in the world, you must die to the world. Then the
universe is your own, it becomes your body, an
expression and a tool. The happiness of being
absolutely free is beyond description. On the other
hand, he who is afraid of freedom cannot die.
Q: You mean that one who cannot die, cannot live?
M: Put it as you like; attachment is bondage,
detachment is freedom. To crave is to slave.
Q: Does it follow that if you are saved, the world is
saved?
M: As a whole the world does not need saving. Man
makes mistakes and creates sorrow; when it enters
the field of awareness, the consciousness of a
gnani, it is set right. Such is his nature.
Q: We can observe what may be called spiritual
progress. A selfish man turns religious, controls
himself, refines his thoughts and feelings, takes to
spiritual practice, realises his true being. Is such
progress ruled by causality, or is it accidental?
M: From my point of view everything happens by
itself, quite spontaneously. But man imagines that
he works for an incentive, towards a goal. He has
always a reward in mind and strives for it.
Q: A crude, unevolved man will not work without a
reward. Is it not right to offer him incentives?
M: He will create for himself incentives anyhow. He
does not know that to grow is in the nature of
consciousness. He will progress from motive to
motive and will chase Gurus for the fulfilment of his
desires. When by the laws of his being he finds the
133
K: Mirt flnk?
M: Sajt magad nem ismerete az oka a flelmednek,
trekedj. Dnts le elbb a tudatlansg falt.
Az emberek azrt flnek meghalni, mert nem tudjk,
hogy mi a hall. A gnani mr a halla eltt meghalt,
ltta, hogy ott semmi olyan nem volt, amitl flni
kellene. Abban a pillanatban, hogy megismered
valdi ltedet, nem flsz semmitl. A hall
szabadsgot s ert ad. Ahhoz, hogy szabad legyl
a vilgban, meg kell halnod a vilg szmra. Akkor
az univerzum nmagadd vlik, testedd,
kifejezdsedd s eszkzdd. Az abszolt
szabad ltezs boldogsga lerhatatlan. Msfell,
aki retteg a szabadsgtl, nem halhat meg.
K: Azt akarod mondani, hogy aki nem tud meghalni,
az nem tud lni?
M: Fogalmazz, ahogy tetszik; a ktds
rabszolgasg, a szenvtelensg szabadsg.
Vgyakozni azt jelenti, szolglni.
K: Ez azt jelenti, hogy ha te megmeneklsz, akkor a
vilg is megmenekl?
M: A vilgnak, gy ltalban, nincs szksge
megmentsre. Az ember az, aki hibzik, s bnatot
okoz; de amikor belp az bersg terbe, a gnani
tudatossgba, akkor rendbe jn. Ilyen a
termszete.
K: szrevehetnk valamifle spiritulis fejldst. Az
nz ember vallsoss vlik, nfegyelemre tesz
szert, megtiszttja gondolatait s rzseit, spiritulis
gyakorlatokat vgez, felismeri valdi ltt. Az effle
fejlds al van vetve az oksgnak, vagy
vletlenszer?
M: Az n nzpontombl minden magtl, teljesen
spontn mdon trtnik. Az ember azonban gy
kpzeli, hogy egy indtknak megfelelen, egy cl
rdekben cselekszik. Mindig a jutalom jr az
eszben, s azrt iparkodik.
K: Az retlen, kialakulatlan ember jutalom hjn nem
dolgozik. Nem lenne taln helyes sztnzket
felknlni neki?
M: Az ilyen ember mindenkppen megteremti az
sztnzket. Nem tudja, hogy a tudatossgnak
termszete fejlds. Egyik motvumrl a msikra
ugrik, s Gurukra vadszik, hogy vgyait
beteljestse. Amikor lte trvnyeinek megfelelen
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
way of return (nivritti) he abandons all motives, for megtallja a visszavezet utat (nivritti), feladja az
his interest in the world is over. He wants nothing -- sszes motvumot, mert a vilg irnti rdekldse
neither from others nor from himself. He dies to all megsznik. Nem akar semmit sem msoktl, sem
and becomes the All. To want nothing and do nmagtl. Meghal minden szmra, s a Mindenn
nothing -- that is true creation. To watch the universe vlik. Nem akarni semmit, s nem tenni semmit ez
emerging and subsiding in one's heart is a wonder. a valdi teremts. Titokban figyelni az univerzum
megjelenst s eltnst, egy csoda.

Q: The great obstacle to inner effort is boredom. The K: A bels erfesztsnek hatalmas akadlya az
disciple gets bored. unalom. A tantvny elunja magt.

M: Inertia and restlessness (tamas and rajas) work
together and keep clarity and harmony (sattva)
down. Tamas and Rajas must be conquered before
sattva can appear. It will all come in due course,
quite spontaneously.
M: A tehetetlensg s nyugtalansg (tamas s
rajas) sszedolgoznak, s elnyomjk a tisztasgot
s a harmnit (sattva). Elbb le kell gyzni a
tamast s a rajast, hogy a sattva megjelenhessen.
Minden eljn a maga idejben, teljesen spontn
mdon.

Q: Is there no need of effort then? K: Teht nincs szksg erfesztsre?

M: When effort is needed, effort will appear. When M: Amikor lesz szksg az erfesztsre, meg fog
jelenni az erfeszts. Amikor az erfeszts
effortlessness becomes essential, it will assert itself.
You need not push life about. Just flow with it and nlklzhetetlen lesz, akkor ki fogja magt jelenteni.
give yourself completely to the task of the present Emiatt nem kell srgetned az letet. Csak ramolj
moment, which is the dying now to the now. For egytt vele, s add t magad teljesen a jelen pillanat
living is dying. Without death life cannot be. feladatnak, amely a mostba hal most. Mert lni
nem ms, mint meghalni. let nem ltezhet hall
Get hold of the main thing that the world and the self nlkl.
are one and perfect. Only your attitude is faulty and
needs readjustment. Ragaszkodj a lnyeghez, hogy a vilg s az n egy
s tkletes. Csupn az attitdd az, ami hibs, s
This process or readjustment is what you call helyreigaztand.
sadhana. You come to it by putting an end to
indolence and using all your energy to clear the way Ezt a folyamat, vagy helyreigazts az, amit
for clarity and charity. But in reality, these all are sadhannak nevezel. gy rheted el, hogy vgt
signs of inevitable growth. Don't be afraid, don't veted a tunyasgnak, s sszese energid
resist, don't delay. Be what you are. There is nothing bevetsvel megtiszttod az utat a tisztasg s
to be afraid of. Trust and try. Experiment honestly. szeretet eltt. De valjban ezek mind az
Give your real being a chance to shape your life. elkerlhetetlen fejlds jelei. Ne flj, ne llj ellen, ne
You will not regret. halogass. Lgy, ami vagy. Semmi nincs, amitl flni
kellene. Higgy, s trekedj. Prblkozz
becsletesen. Adj lehetsget valdi lted szmra
hogy alaktsa letedet. Nem fogod megbnni.

34. Mind is restlessness Itself 34. Az elme maga a nyugtalansg

Questioner: I am a Swede by birth. Now I am Krdez: Svd szrmazs vagyok. Hatha Yogt
teaching Hatha Yoga in Mexico and in the States. tantok Mexikban s az llamokban.

Maharaj: Where did you learn it? Maharaj: Hol tanultad?

Q: I had a teacher in the States, an Indian Swami. K: Az llamokban, egy indiai Swami volt a tanrom.

M: What did it give you? M: Mit szereztl ltala?

Q: It gave me good health and a means of K: J egszsget, s ltfenntartsi eszkzket.

livelihood.

M: Good enough. Is it all you want? M: Helyes. Vgysz mg valamire?

134
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: I seek peace of mind. I got disgusted with all the
cruel things done by the so-called Christians in the
name of Christ. For some time I was without religion.
Then I got attracted to Yoga.
M: What did you gain?
Q: I studied the philosophy of Yoga and it did help
me.
M: In what way did it help you? By what signs did
you conclude that you have been helped?
Q: Good health is something quite tangible.
M: No doubt it is very pleasant to feel fit. Is pleasure
all you expected from Yoga?
Q: The joy of well-being is the reward of Hatha
Yoga. But Yoga in general yields more than that. It
answers many questions.
M: What do you mean by Yoga?
Q: The whole teaching of India -- evolution, re-
incarnation, karma and so on.
M: All right, you got all the knowledge you wanted.
But in what way are you benefited by it?
Q: It gave me peace of mind.
M: Did it? Is your mind at peace? Is your search
over?
Q: No, not yet.
M: Naturally. There will be no end to it, because
there is no such thing as peace of mind. Mind
means disturbance; restlessness itself is mind. Yoga
is not an attribute of the mind, nor is it a state of
mind.
Q: Some measure of peace I did derive from Yoga.
M: Examine closely and you will see that the mind is
seething with thoughts. It may go blank occasionally,
but it does it for a time and reverts to its usual
restlessness. A becalmed mind is not a peaceful
mind. You say you want to pacify your mind. Is he,
who wants to pacify the mind, himself peaceful?
Q: No. I am not at peace, I take the help of Yoga.
M: Don't you see the contradiction? For many years M: Nem ltod az ellentmondst? Mr sok ve, hogy
you sought your peace of mind. You could not find it, keresed az elmd bkjt. Nem tudtad megtallni,
135
K: Elmm bkjt keresem. Megcsmrlttem
mindattl, amit gynevezett keresztnyek kvettek
el Krisztus nevben. J ideig nem voltam vallsos.
Majd maghoz vonzott a Yoga.
M: Mirt volt ez hasznos szmodra?
K: Megtanultam a Yoga filozfijt, s ez sokat
segtett nekem.
M: Hogyan segtett? Milyen jelek alapjn jutottl arra
a kvetkeztetsre, hogy segtett tged?
K: A j egszsg valahogy egszen kzzelfoghat.
M: Semmi ktsg, nagyon kellemes egszsgesnek
lenni. Ez minden, amit a Yogtl vrsz?
K: A Hatha Yoga jutalma a j egszsg lvezete. De
a Yognak ltalban ennl is nagyobb hozama van.
Sok krdsre vlaszt ad.
M: Mit rtesz Yoga alatt?
K: A teljes indiai tantst az evolcirl,
reinkarncirl, karmrl, s a tbbi.
M: Rendben van, megszereztl minden tudst, amit
akartl. De milyen mdon vlik ez az elnydre?
K: Az elmm bkre lelt.
M: Valban? Bkben van az elmd? Vge a
keressnek?
K: Nem, mg nincs.
M: Termszetesen. Sosem lesz vge, mert nem
ltezik olyan, mint az elme bkje. Az elme
jelentse zrzavar; a nyugtalansg maga az elme. A
Yoga nem az elme egy tulajdonsga, s nem is
elme llapot.
K: Bkmet a Yogtl nyertem, bizonyos
mrtkben.
M: Ha alaposan megvizsglod meg fogod ltni, hogy
az elme a gondolatok kavargsa. Esetenknt ress
vlhat, de csak egy ideig marad gy, s visszatr a
szoksos nyugtalansg. Az elcsendesedett elme
nem bks elme. Azt mondod, le akarod csillaptani
akarod az elmdet. akarja az elme
lecsillapodst, nmaga bkjt?
K: Nem. Nem vagyok bkben, ignybe kell vennem
a Yoga segtsgt.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
for a thing essentially restless cannot be at peace.
Q: There is some improvement.
M: The peace you claim to have found is very brittle
any little thing can crack it. What you call peace is
only absence of disturbance. It is hardly worth the
name. The real peace cannot be disturbed. Can you
claim a peace of mind that is unassailable?
Q: l am striving.
M: Striving too is a form of restlessness.
Q: So what remains?
M: The self does not need to be put to rest. It is
peace itself, not at peace. Only the mind is restless.
All it knows is restlessness, with its many modes
and grades. The pleasant are considered superior
and the painful are discounted. What we call
progress is merely a change over from the
unpleasant to the pleasant. But changes by
themselves cannot bring us to the changeless, for
whatever has a beginning must have an end. The
real does not begin; it only reveals itself as
beginningless and endless, all-pervading, all-
powerful, immovable prime mover, timelessly
changeless.
Q: So what has one to do?
M: Through Yoga you have accumulated knowledge
and experience. This cannot be denied. But of what
use is it all to you? Yoga means union, joining. What
have you re-united, re-joined?
Q: I am trying to rejoin the personality back to the
real self.
M: The personality (vyakti) is but a product of
imagination. The self (vyakta) is the victim of this
imagination. It is the taking yourself to be what you
are not that binds you. The person cannot be said to
exist on its own rights; it is the self that believes
there is a person and is conscious of being it.
Beyond the self (vyakta) lies the unmanifested
(avyakta), the causeless cause of everything. Even
to talk of re-uniting the person with the self is not
right, because there is no person, only a mental
picture given a false reality by conviction. Nothing
was divided and there is nothing to unite.
Q: Yoga helps in the search for and the finding of
136
mert aminek a lnyege a nyugtalansg, nem lehet
bkben.
K: Van nmi javuls.
M: A bke, amit lltlag megtalltl, nagyon
trkeny, brmilyen kis dolog, meg tudja trni. Amit
te bknek nevezel, az csak a zrzavar hinya.
Alighanem ez a legjobb elnevezs. A valdi bke
nem zavarhat meg. Akarod, hogy olyan bkben
legyen az elmd, amely megzavarhatatlan?
K: Ennek az elrsre trekszem.
M: A trekvs is a nyugtalansg egy formja.
K: Akkor milyen lehetsg marad?
M: Az nnek nincs r szksge, hogy nyugalomba
helyezd. Maga a bke, nem pedig bkben van.
Csak az elme nyugtalan. Minden, amit tud, az
nyugtalansg, az sokfle mdozatval s
fokozatval. Az lvezetet tekinti magasabb
rendnek, s a fjdalmat lertkeli. Amit mi
fejldsnek hvunk, az pusztn a nem kellemes
felcserlse a kellemesre. De maguk a vltozsok
nem visznek el bennnket a vltozatlanhoz, mert
brminek, aminek kezdete van, vge is kell, hogy
legyen. A valdi nem kezddik; az csak
megmutatkozik, mint kezdet s vg nlkli, mindent
betlt, mindenhat, mozdulatlan elsdleges
mozgat, idtlen vltozatlan.
K: Akkor mit kell tenni?
M: A Yoga rvn tudst s tapasztalatot gyjtttl.
Ez nem tagadhat. De mi haszna szmodra
mindennek? A Yoga egyeslst jelent,
sszekapcsoldst. Mi az, amivel jraegyesltl,
sszekapcsoldtl?
K: Megprblom jraegyesteni a szemlyisget
valdi nnel.
M: A szemlyisg (vyakti) csak kpzelet termke. Az
n (vyakta) az ldozata ennek a kpzeldsnek. Az,
hogy annak tartod magad, ami nem vagy,
ktttsgben tart tged. A szemly nem mondhatja,
hogy sajt jogon ltezik; az n az, aki azt hiszi, hogy
ltezik egy szemly, s tudatban van a ltnek. Az
nen (vyakta) tl tallhat a megnyilvnulatlan
(avyakta), ami mindennek az ok nlkli oka. Mr
csak azrt sem helyes a szemly s az n
jraegyeslsrl beszlni, mert nem ltezik
szemly, csak egy mentlis kp, amely egy hit
alapjn keletkezett hamis valszersg. Semmi nem
kerlt megosztsra, s nincs semmi, amit egyesteni
kellene.
K: A Yoga segteni fog a keressben s az n
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
the self.
M: You can find what you have lost. But you cannot
find what you have not lost.
Q: Had I never lost anything, I would have been
enlightened. But I am not. I am searching. Is not my
very search a proof of my having lost something?
M: It only shows that you believe you have lost. But
who believes it? And what is believed to be lost?
Have you lost a person like yourself? What is the
self you are in search of? What exactly do you
expect to find?
Q: The true knowledge of the self.
M: The true knowledge of the self is not a
knowledge. It is not something that you find by
searching, by looking everywhere. It is not to be
found in space or time. Knowledge is but a memory,
a pattern of thought, a mental habit. All these are
motivated by pleasure and pain. It is because you
are goaded by pleasure and pain that you are in
search of knowledge. Being oneself is completely
beyond all motivation. You cannot be yourself for
some reason. You are yourself, and no reason is
needed.
Q: By doing Yoga I shall find peace.
M: Can there be peace apart from yourself? Are you
talking from your own experience or from books
only? Your book knowledge is useful to begin with,
but soon it must be given up for direct experience,
which by its very nature is inexpressible. Words can
be used for destruction also; of words images are
built, by words they are destroyed. You got yourself
into your present state through verbal thinking; you
must get out of it the same way.
Q: I did attain a degree of inner peace. Am I to
destroy it?
M: What has been attained may be lost again. Only
when you realise the true peace, the peace you
have never lost, that peace will remain with you, for
it was never away. Instead of searching for what you
do not have, find out what is it that you have never
lost? That which is there before the beginning and
after the ending of everything; that to which there is
no birth, nor death. That immovable state, which is
not affected by the birth and death of a body or a
mind, that state you must perceive.
Q: What are the means to such perception?
M: In life nothing can be had without overcoming
137
megtallsban.
M: Azt tallhatod meg, amit elvesztettl. De nem
tallhatod meg azt, amit nem vesztettl el.
K: Ha nem vesztettem volna el semmit, akkor
megvilgosodott lennk. De nem vagyok. Keresek.
A keressem nem valsgos bizonytk arra nzve,
hogy elvesztettem valamit?
M: Csak azt mutatja, azt hiszed, hogy elvesztetted.
De ki hiszi ezt? s mit hisz, hogy mit vesztett el?
Elvesztettl egy magadhoz hasonl szemlyt? Mi
az az n, ami utn kutatsz? Pontosan mit vrsz a
keresstl?
K: Az n igaz ismerett.
M: Az n igaz ismerete nem tuds. Nem egy olyan
valami, amit keresssel, mindenhov benzve
megtallhatsz. Nem tallhat meg trben vagy
idben. A tuds csak emlkezet, gondolkodsi
minta, mentlis viselkedsmd. Mindezek az lvezet
s a fjdalom ltal motivltak. Mert az lvezet s a
fjdalom sztklsre keresed a tudst. Lvn,
hogy nmagad vagy, minden indtkon teljesen tl
vagy. Nem vlhatsz nmagadd valamifle ok miatt.
Te nmagad vagy, s ehhez semmifle ok nem
szksges.
K: A Yoga gyakorlsval bkt lelek.
M: Ltezhet-e nmagadtl fggetlen bke? Sajt
tapasztalatbl beszlsz, vagy csupn knyvek
alapjn? Knyvbl szerzett ismereteid hasznosak
kezdetben, de mihamarabb fel kell adnod azokat a
kzvetlen tapasztalat rdekben, amely valdi
termszete szerint kifejezhetetlen. A szavak
rombolsra is hasznlhatk; a szavak ltal felptett
kpek szavak ltal semmislnek meg. Jelenlegi
llapotodat verblis gondolkodssal hoztad ltre;
ugyanilyen mdon kell kikerlnd belle.
K: Mr megvalstottam egy bizonyos fok bkt. Le
kell azt rombolnom?
M: Ami elrsre kerlt, az ismt elveszthet. Csak
az igazi bke megvalstsakor nem fog a bke
elveszni soha, az a bke veled marad, mert soha
nem is volt tvol. Ahelyett, hogy azt keresed, amid
nincs, fedezd fel azt, amit soha nem vesztettl el.
Azt, ami ltezik mindenek kezdete eltt, s vge
utn; azt, aminek nincs sem szletse, sem halla.
Azt a megvltozhatatlan llapotot, amelyre nem hat
a test vagy az elme szletse s halla, azt az
llapotot kell felismerned.
K: Milyen eszkzei vannak az ilyen felismersnek?
M: Az letben semmi nem szerezhet meg
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
obstacles. The obstacles to the clear perception of
one's true being are desire for pleasure and fear of
pain. It is the pleasure-pain motivation that stands in
the way. The very freedom from all motivation, the
state in which no desire arises is the natural state.
Q: Such giving up of desires, does it need time?
M: If you leave it to time, millions of years will be
needed. Giving up desire after desire is a lengthy
process with the end never in sight. Leave alone
your desires and fears, give your entire attention to
the subject, to him who is behind the experience of
desire and fear. Ask: 'who desires?' Let each desire
bring you back to yourself.
Q: The root of all desires and fears is the same --
the longing for happiness.
M: The happiness you can think of and long for, is
mere physical or mental satisfaction. Such sensory
or mental pleasure is not the real, the absolute
happiness.
Q: Even sensory and mental pleasures and the
general sense of well-being which arises with
physical and mental health, must have their roots in
reality.
M: They have their roots in imagination. A man who
is given a stone and assured that it is a priceless
diamond will be mightily pleased until he realises his
mistake; in the same way pleasures lose their tang
and pains their barb when the self is known. Both
are seen as they are -- conditional responses, mere
reactions, plain attractions and repulsions, based on
memories or pre-conceptions. Usually pleasure and
pain are experienced when expected. It is all a
matter of acquired habits and convictions.
Q: Well, pleasure may be imaginary. But pain is real. K: Nos, az lvezet lehet, hogy kpzelet szlte. De a
fjdalom valdi.
M: Pain and pleasure go always together. Freedom
from one means freedom from both. If you do not
care for pleasure, you will not be afraid of pain. But
there is happiness which is neither, which is
completely beyond. The happiness you know is
describable and measurable. It is objective, so to
say. But the objective cannot be your own. It would
be a grievous mistake to identify yourself with
something external. This churning up of levels leads
nowhere. Reality is beyond the subjective and
objective, beyond all levels, beyond every
distinction. Most definitely it is not their origin, source
138
akadlyok legyzse nlkl. Az ember igaz lte
tiszta szlelsnek akadlyai az lvezet utni vgy,
s a fjdalomtl val flelem. Ez az lvezet-fjdalom
motivci llja utadat. A minden motivcitl val
teljes szabadsg llapotban nem merlnek fel
vgyak, ez a termszetes llapot.
K: A vgyak ilyen feladshoz idre van szksg?
M: Ha az idre bzod, akkor milli vekre lesz
szksged. A vgyak egyenknti feladsa
hosszadalmas folyamat, aminek a vge sohasem
lthat. Hagyd bkn vgyaidat s flelmeidet,
fordtsd teljes figyelmedet az alanyra, arra, aki a
vgy s flelem tapasztalata mgtt van. Krdezd
azt: ki az, aki vgyakozik? A vgyakkal vitesd
vissza magadat nmagadhoz.
K: Minden vgy s flelem gykere ugyanaz a
boldogsg utni svrgs.
M: A boldogsg, amire te gondolsz, s ami utn
vgydsz, csupn testi s mentlis kielgls. Az
ilyen rzki vagy mentlis lvezet nem azonos a
valdi, az abszolt boldogsggal.
K: Mg az rzki s mentlis lvezetnek, s a fizikai
s mentlis egszsggel jr jlt ltalnos
rzsnek is a valsgban kell gykereznie.
M: Mindezek a kpzeletben gykereznek. Ha valaki
hozzjut egy khz, ami fell bizonyos, hogy egy
felbecslhetetlen rtk gymntot kapott, rendkvli
boldogsgot fog rezni, mg fel nem ismeri hibjt;
ugyangy veszti el az lvezet az zt, s a fjdalom a
tskjt, amikor az n felismersre kerl.
Mindegyikk annak fog ltszani, ami kondicionlt
reaglsnak, puszta reakcinak, egyszer
vonzsnak s tasztsnak, amelyeknek az alapja az
emlkezet, s a kialakult nzetek. lvezet s
fjdalom rendszerint akkor kerlnek
megtapasztalsra, amikor elvrod ket. Mindez
tanult viselkeds, s hiedelmek dolga.
M: Fjdalom s lvezet mindig egytt jrnak. Ha
szabad vagy az egyiktl, azt jelenti, szabad vagy
mindketttl. Ha nem trdsz az lvezettel, nem
fogsz flni a fjdalomtl. De a szabadsg egyik sem,
mindezeket tkletesen meghaladja. Az ltalad
ismert boldogsg lerhat, s megmrhet.
gyszlvn objektv. De az objektv nem lehet a te
sajtod. Slyos hiba lenne nmagadat valami
klslegessel azonostani. A szintek sszekavarsa
nem vezet sehov. A valsg meghalad szubjektvet
s objektvet, fltte ll minden szintnek, fltte ll
minden klnbsgnek. A leghatrozottabban nem
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
or root. These come from ignorance of reality, not eredete, forrsa vagy gykere nekik. Ezek a valsg
from reality itself, which is indescribable, beyond nem ismersbl szrmaznak, nem magbl a
being and not-being. valsgbl, amely lerhatatlan, tl van lten s
nemlten.

Q: Many teachers have I followed and studied many K: Sok tantt kvettem, s sok doktrnt
doctrines, yet none gave me what I wanted. tanulmnyoztam, de egyik sem adta meg nekem,
amit akartam.

M: The desire to find the self will be surely fulfilled,
provided you want nothing else. But you must be
honest with yourself and really want nothing else. If
in the meantime you want many other things and are
engaged in their pursuit, your main purpose may be
delayed until you grow wiser and cease being torn
between contradictory urges. Go within, without
swerving, without ever looking outward.
M: Az n megtallsnak a vgya bizonyosan
beteljesthet, feltve, hogy nem akarsz semmi
mst. De becsletesnek kell lenned nmagaddal
szemben, s valban nem szabad semmi mst
akarni. Ha ekzben sok egyb dolgot is akarsz, s
elkezdesz azok fel trekedni, akkor f clod
elodzdhat, amg elg blccs nem vlsz, s abba
nem marad az ellenttes knyszerek kztti
szerteszt szakadsod. Fordulj befel kanyarok
nlkl, anlkl, rkk kifel tekintgets nlkl.

Q: But my desires and fears are still there. K: De mg vannak ltez vgyaim s flelmeim.

M: Where are they but in your memory? Realise that M: Hol vannak azok, a memridon kvl? Ismerd
their root is in expectation born of memory and they fel, hogy a gykerk a memriban szlet
will cease to obsess you. elvrsban van, s meg fogjk szntetni a
knzsodat.

Q: I have understood very well that social service is
an endless task, because improvement and decay,
progress and regress, go side by side. We can see it
on all sides and on every level. What remains?
K: Nagyon jl megrtettem, hogy a trsadalom
szolglata egy vgtelen feladat, mert fejlds s
rombols, halads s visszafejlds, egyms mellett
haladnak. Ezt minden oldalon s minden szinten
lthatjuk. Mit marad htra?

M: Whatever work you have undertaken -- complete
it. Do not take up new tasks. Unless it is called for by
a concrete situation of suffering and relief from
suffering. Find yourself first, and endless blessings
will follow. Nothing profits the world as much as the
abandoning of profits. A man who no longer thinks in
terms of loss and gain is the truly non-violent man,
for he is beyond all conflict.
M: Akrmibe fogsz csinld vgig. Ne fogj j
feladatba. Hacsak azt nem teszi szksgess a
szenvedsnek, s a szenveds enyhtsnek egy
konkrt szitucija. Talld meg elszr nmagadat,
s vget nem r lds fog kvetkezni. Semmilyen
hasznot nem hoz a vilg, ugyangy a haszonrl val
lemonds sem. Aki tbb nem a vesztesg s
nyeresg kategriiban gondolkodik, az az igazn
erszak mentes ember, mert tl van minden
konfliktuson.

Q: Yes, I was always attracted by the idea of ahimsa K: Igen, mindig vonzdtam az ahimsa
(non-violence). (erszakmentessg) idejhoz.

M: Primarily, ahimsa means what it says: 'don't hurt'.
It is not doing good that comes first, but ceasing to
hurt, not adding to suffering. Pleasing others is not
ahimsa.
M: Alapveten, az ahimsa azt jelenti, amit mond: ne
rts. Ez nem jcselekedet, egybknt, hanem a
fjdalomokozs abbahagysa, tovbbi szenveds
nem okozsa. A msoknak val rmszerzs nem
ahimsa.

Q: I am not talking of pleasing, but I am all for K: Nem rmszerzsrl beszlek, hanem hogy ksz
helping others. vagyok segteni msokon.

M: The only help worth giving is freeing from the M: Egyetlen segtsg br rtkkel, a tovbbi segtsg
need for further help. Repeated help is no help at all. szksglettl val megszabadts. A megismtelt
Do not talk of helping another, unless you can put segtsg egyltaln nem segtsg. Ne beszlj msok
him beyond all need of help. megsegtsrl, hacsak nem tudod ket tlsegteni

139
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: How does one go beyond the need of help? And
can one help another to do so?
M: When you have understood that all existence, in
separation and limitation, is painful, and when you
are willing and able to live integrally, in oneness with
all life, as pure being, you have gone beyond all
need of help. You can help another by precept and
example and, above all, by your being. You cannot
give what you do not have and you don't have what
you are not. You can only give what you are -- and
of that you can give limitlessly.
Q: But, is it true that all existence is painful?
M: What else can be the cause of this universal
search for pleasure? Does a happy man seek
happiness? How restless people are, how constantly
on the move. It is because they are in pain that they
seek relief in pleasure. All the happiness they can
imagine is in the assurance of repeated pleasure.
Q: If what I am, as I am, the person I take myself to
be, cannot be happy, then what am I to do?
M: You can only cease to be -- as you seem to be
now. There is nothing cruel in what I say. To wake
up a man from a nightmare is compassion. You
came here because you are in pain, and all I say is:
wake up, know yourself, be yourself. The end of pain
lies not in pleasure. When you realise that you are
beyond both pain and pleasure, aloof and
unassailable, then the pursuit of happiness ceases
and the resultant sorrow too. For pain aims at
pleasure and pleasure ends in pain, relentlessly.
Q: In the ultimate state there can be no happiness?
M: Nor sorrow. Only freedom. Happiness depends
on something or other and can be lost; freedom from
everything depends on nothing and cannot be lost.
Freedom from sorrow has no cause and, therefore,
cannot be destroyed. Realise that freedom.
Q: Am I not born to suffer as a result of my past? Is
freedom possible at all? Was I born of my own will?
Am I not just a creature?
M: What is birth and death but the beginning and the M: Mi ms a szlets s a hall, ha nem
140
a segtsg minden szksgletn.
K: Hogyan lehet meghaladni a segtsg szksgt?
s tudja-e az ember segteni a msikat, hogy ezt
megtegye?
M: Amikor megrtetted, hogy minden lny szenved a
sztvlasztottsgban s elhatroltsgban, s amikor
kpes s hajland leszel integrltan lni, egysgben
minden lettel, tiszta ltknt, akkor haladtad meg a
segtsg minden szksgt. Tanccsal, pldval,
lnyeddel segthetsz msokon, legelssorban. Nem
adhatsz olyat, amid nincs, s nem lehet olyanod,
ami nem te vagy. Csak azt adhatod, ami vagy azt
viszont korltozs nlkl.
K: De igaz az, hogy minden ltezs fjdalmas?
M: Mi egyb oka lehet ennek ez egyetemes lvezet
keressnek? A boldog ember keres-e boldogsgot?
Micsoda nyugtalanok az emberek, mennyire lland
mozgsban vannak. Szenvedsk miatt keresnek
enyhlst az lvezetben. Brmifle boldogsgot
csak az ismtld lvezet biztostsban tudnak
elkpzelni.
K: Ha az, ami vagyok, ahogy vagyok, a szemly,
akinek tartom magam, nem kpes boldog lenni,
akkor mit tehetek?
M: Csak abbahagyni tudod a ltet aminek az most
lenni ltszik. Semmi kegyetlen nincs abban, amit
mondok. Knyrletessg rmlmbl felbreszteni
egy embert. Azrt jttl ide, mert szenvedsz, s n
csupn annyit mondok neked: bredj fel, ismerd
meg magad, lgy nmagad. A szenveds vge nem
az lvezetben rejlik. Amikor felismered, hogy felette
minden fjdalom s lvezet fltt ll vagy,
kzmbs s megtmadhatatlan, akkor vge a
boldogsg keressnek, s az abbl, szrmaz
szomorsgnak is. Mert a fjdalom az lvezet fel
mutat, s az lvezet fjdalomban vgzdik,
krlelhetetlenl.
K: A vgs llapotban nem lehetsges a
boldogsg?
M: Sem szomorsg. Csak szabadsg. A boldogsg
fgg ettl, vagy attl, s elveszthet; a mindentl
val szabadsg semmitl sem fgg, s nem
veszthet el. A szomorsgtl val szabadsgnak
nincs oka, s ezrt nem elpusztthat. Valstsd
meg ezt a szabadsgot.
K: Nem lehet, hogy mltam eredmnyekppen
szlettem szenvedsre? Lehetsges egyltaln a
szabadsg? Sajt akaratombl szlettem? Nem
csak egy kreatra vagyok?
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
ending of a stream of events in consciousness?
Because of the idea of separation and limitation they
are painful. Momentary relief from pain we call
pleasure -- and we build castles in the air hoping for
endless pleasure which we call happiness. It is all
misunderstanding and misuse. Wake up, go beyond,
live really.
Q: My knowledge is limited, my power negligible.
M: Being the source of both. The self is beyond both
knowledge and power. The observable is in the
mind. The nature of the self is pure awareness, pure
witnessing, unaffected by the presence or absence
of knowledge or liking.
Have your being outside this body of birth and death
and all your problems will be solved. They exist
because you believe yourself born to die. Undeceive
yourself and be free. You are not a person.
35. Greatest Guru is Your Inner Self
Questioner: On all sides I hear that freedom from
desires and inclinations is the first condition of self-
realisation. But I find the condition impossible of
fulfilment. Ignorance of oneself causes desires and
desires perpetuate ignorance. A truly vicious circle.
Maharaj: There are no conditions to fulfil. There is
nothing to be done, nothing to be given up. Just look
and remember, whatever you perceive is not you,
nor yours. It is there in the field of consciousness,
but you are not the field and its contents, nor even
the knower of the field. It is your idea that you have
to do things that entangle you in the results of your
efforts -- the motive, the desire, the failure to
achieve, the sense of frustration -- all this holds you
back. Simply look at whatever happens and know
that you are beyond it.
Q: Does it mean I should abstain from doing
anything?
M: You cannot. What goes on must go on. If you
stop suddenly, you will crash.
Q: Is it a matter of the known and the knower
becoming one?
M: Both are ideas in the mind, and words that
express them. There is no self in them. The self is
neither, between nor beyond. To look for it on the
mental level is futile. Stop searching, and see -- it is
here and now -- it is that 'I am' you know so well. All
you need to do is to cease taking yourself to be
141
tudatossgbeli esemnyek folyamnak kezdete s
vge? Amelyek az elklnltsg s korltozottsg
ideja miatt szenvedsteljesek. A szenvedstl val
tmeneti enyhlst lvezetnek nevezzk s
lgvrakat ptnk, a vg nlkli lvezetben
remnykedve, amelyet elneveztnk boldogsgnak.
Mindez flrerts, s tves hasznlat. bredj fel,
lpj tl, lj igazn.
K: Tudsom korltozott, erm jelentktelen.
M: A lt a forrsa mindkettnek. Az n fltte ll
mind a tudsnak, mind az ernek. Az szlelhet az
elmben van. Az n termszete tiszta bersg,
tiszta tansg, jelenlttl, illetve tuds vagy szeretet
hinytl rintetlen.
Lsd be, hogy lnyed ezen szletsnek s hallnak
alvetett testen kvl van, s minden problmd
megolddik. Szlets s hall azrt lteznek, mert
hiszel szletsedben s hallodban. Jzantsd ki
magad, s lgy szabad. Te nem szemly vagy.
35. Bels ned a legnagyobb Guru
Krdez: Mindenfell azt hallom, hogy az
nmegvalsts elfelttele a vgyaktl s
hajlamoktl val szabadsg. De n gy ltom, hogy
e felttel teljestse lehetetlen. A tudatlansg
vgyakat kelt, s a vgyak fenntartjk a
tudatlansgot. Ez egy valdi rdgi kr.
Maharaj: Nincsenek semmifle felttelek, amelyeket
teljesteni kellene. Semmit nem kell tenni, semmit
nem kell feladni. Csak figyelj, s tartsd szben, hogy
akrmit szlelsz, az nem te vagy, sem nem a tid.
Az a tudatossg terben van, de te nem vagy a tr,
sem annak tartalma, de mg az sem te vagy, aki
tudatban van a trnek. Amiatt az elkpzelsed
miatt, hogy cselekedned kell, gabalyodsz bele az
erfesztseid eredmnyeibe az indtk, a vgy, a
sikertelensg, a frusztrci rzse , amelyek
visszahznak. Egyszeren csak figyelj mindent, ami
trtnik, s tudd, hogy te azon tl vagy.
K: Ez azt jelenti, hogy tartzkodnom kell a
cselekvstl?
M: Nem vagy r kpes. Ami megy, annak mennie
kell. Ha hirtelen megllnl, sszetrnd magad.
K: Ez a tud s a tudott eggy vlsnak a trgya?
M: Mindkett idea az elmben, s az ket kifejez
szavakban van. Nincs bennk n. Kzttk, s
felettk sincs. Mentlis szinten hiba keresed.
Hagyd abba a keresst, s megltod itt s most
van , az n vagyok az, amit olyan jl ismersz.
Csupn annyit kell tenned, hogy megsznsz
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
within the field of consciousness. Unless you have
already considered these matters carefully, listening
to me once will not do. Forget your past experiences
and achievements, stand naked, exposed to the
winds and rains of life and you will have a chance.
Q: Has devotion (bhakti) any place in your teaching? K: Tartalmaz odaadst (bhakti) valahol a tantsod?
M: When you are not well, you go to a physician
who tells you what is wrong and what is the remedy.
If you have confidence in him, it makes things
simple: you take the medicine, follow the diet
restrictions and get well. But if you do not trust him,
you may still take a chance, or you may study
medicine yourself. In all cases it is your desire for
recovery that moves you, not the physician.
Without trust there is no peace. Somebody or other
you always trust -- it may be your mother, or your
wife. Of all the people the knower of the self, the
liberated man, is the most trust-worthy. But merely
to trust is not enough. You must also desire. Without
desire for freedom of what use is the confidence that
you can acquire freedom? Desire and confidence
must go together. The stronger your desire, the
easier comes the help. The greatest Guru is
helpless as long as the disciple is not eager to learn.
Eagerness and earnestness are all-important.
Confidence will come with experience. Be devoted
to your goal -- and devotion to him who can guide
you will follow. If your desire and confidence are
strong, they will operate and take you to your goal,
for you will not cause delay by hesitation and
compromise.
The greatest Guru is your inner self. Truly, he is the
supreme teacher. He alone can take you to your
goal and he alone meets you at the end of the road.
Confide in him and you need no outer Guru. But
again you must have the strong desire to find him
and do nothing that will create obstacles and delays.
And do not waste energy and time on regrets. Learn
from your mistakes and do not repeat them.
Q: If you do not mind my asking a personal
question...?
M: Yes, go ahead.
Q: I see you sitting on an antelope skin. How does it
tally with non-violence?
M: All my working life I was a cigarette-maker,
helping people to spoil their health. And in front of
my door the municipality has put up a public
lavatory, spoiling my health. In this violent world how
can one keep away from violence of some kind or
142
nmagadat a tudatossg tern bell lvnek tartani.
Hacsak alaposan t nem gondoltad mr ezeket a
tmkat, egyszeri meghallgatst kveten nem
fogod megtenni. Felejtsd el a mlt tapasztalatait s
vvmnyait, llj ki meztelenl, kitve magad az let
szelnek s esjnek, s lesz egy eslyed.
M: Amikor nem vagy egszsges, orvoshoz msz,
aki kzli veled a bajodat, s az ellenszert. Ha
bizalmat rzel irnta, az egyszersti a dolgokat:
beveszed az orvossgot, betartod a ditt, s
helyrejssz. De ha nem bzol benne, akkor vagy
vllalod a rizikt, vagy megtanulod gygykezelni
magad. Mindegyik esetben a gygyulsi vgyad az,
ami mozgat tged, nem az orvos.
Bizalom nlkl nincs bke. Mindig hiszel valakinek
legyen az a mamd, vagy a felesged. Az sszes
ember kzl az n ismerje, a megszabadult ember
a legmegbzhatbb. De a puszta bizalom nem elg.
Vgynod is szksges. A szabadsg vgya nlkl
mi haszna van a bizonyossgnak, hogy
megszerezheted a szabadsgot? Vgy s
bizonyossg egytt kell jrjanak. Minl ersebb a
vgyad, annl knnyebben jn a segtsg. A
legnagyobb Guru is tehetetlen, amg a tantvny
nem lelkesedik a tanulsrt. Lelkeseds s
komolysg ltfontossgak. A bizonyossg meg fog
jnni a tapasztalattal. Lgy odaad a clod irnt s
az odaads az irnt, aki vezetni tud tged, be fog
kvetkezni. Ha vgyad s bizonyossgod ersek,
akkor mkdni fognak, s elvisznek clodhoz, mert
nem lesz okod kslekedni habozs s megalkuvs
miatt.
A legnagyobb Guru a bels n. Valjban a
legfelsbb tant. Egyedl tud tged a clodba
juttatni, s egyedl vr az t vgn. Bzz benne,
s nem lesz szksged kls Gurura. De ismtlem,
ersen vgynod kell megtallni t, s ne tgy semmi
olyat, ami akadlyokat s ksedelmeskedst
eredmnyezne. s ne pazarolj energit s idt
megbnsokra. Tanulj a hibidbl, s ne ismteld
meg azokat.
K: Megengeded, hogy feltegyek egy szemlyes
krdst?
M: Igen, csak tessk.
K: gy ltom, antilop brn lsz. Hogy egyeztethet
ez ssze az erszakmentessggel?
M: Egsz letemben cigarettt ksztettem, segtve,
hogy az emberek tnkretegyk az egszsgket. s
a kapummal szemben a helyhatsg fellltott egy
nyilvnos illemhelyet, ami tnkreteszi az n
egszsgemet. Ebben az erszakos vilgban
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
other?
Q: Surely all avoidable violence should be avoided.
And yet in India every holy man has his tiger, lion,
leopard or antelope skin to sit on.
M: Maybe because no plastics were available in
ancient times and a skin was best to keep the damp
away. Rheumatism has no charm, even for a saint.
Thus the tradition arose that for lengthy meditations
a skin is needed. Just like the drum-hide in a temple,
so is the antelope skin of a Yogi. We hardly notice it.
Q: But the animal had to be killed.
M: I have never heard of a Yogi killing a tiger for his
hide. The killers are not Yogis and the Yogis are not
killers.
Q: Should you not express your disapproval by
refusing to sit on a skin?
M: What an idea. I disapprove of the entire universe, M: Micsoda tlet. n az egsz univerzumot
why only a skin? helytelentem, mirt szortkozzak egy brre?
Q: What is wrong with the universe?
M: Forgetting your Self is the greatest injury; all the
calamities flow from it. Take care of the most
important, the lesser will take care of itself. You do
not tidy up a dark room. You open the windows first.
Letting in the light makes everything easy. So, let us
wait with improving others until we have seen
ourselves as we are -- and have changed. There is
no need to turn round and round in endless
questioning; find yourself and everything will fall into
its proper place.
Q: The urge to return to the source is very rare. Is it
at all natural?
M: Outgoing is natural in the beginning, ingoing -- in
the end. But in reality the two are one, just like
breathing in and out are one.
Q: In the same way are not the body and the dweller K: Nem egyek-e, ugyanilyen mdon, a test s a test
in the body one? lakja?
M: Events in time and space -- birth and death,
cause and effect -- these may be taken as one; but
the body and the embodied are not of the same
order of reality. The body exists in time and space,
transient and limited, while the dweller is timeless
and spaceless, eternal and all-pervading. To identify
the two is a grievous mistake and the cause of
endless suffering. You can speak of the mind and
143
hogyan tarthatna tvolsgot az ember az erszak
egyik vagy msik fajtjtl?
K: Biztos vagyok benne, hogy minden elkerlhet
erszakot el kell kerlni. s Indiban mgis minden
szent embernek van tigris, oroszln, leoprd vagy
antilop bre, amin l.
M: Taln, mert nem lltak rendelkezsre manyagok
az si idkben, s a br volt a legalkalmasabb, hogy
tvol tartsa a nedvessget. A reuma nem kellemes,
mg egy szentnek sem. gy alakulhatott ki a
hagyomny, hogy a hossz meditcikhoz brre van
szksg. Ahogy a templomi dobokon is br van, gy
van antilop br a Yoginl is. Nemigen figyelnk erre.
K: De az llatot meg kellett lni.
M: Soha nem hallottam, hogy egy Yogi meglt volna
egy tigrist a brrt. A gyilkosok nem Yogik, s a
Yogik nem gyilkosok.
K: Nem kellene helytelentsedet kifejezned,
visszautastva, hogy egy brn lj?
K: Mi baj az univerzummal?
M: ned elfelejtse a legnagyobb krttel; az
sszes szerencstlensg ebbl kvetkezik. gyelj a
legfontosabbra, a kicsiny majd gondoskodik
magrl. Ne takartsd fel a stt szobt. Elszr
nyiss ablakot. A fny beeresztse mindent knnyv
tesz. Vrjunk teht msok jobbtsval, amg meg
nem lttuk magunkat olyannak, amilyenek vagyunk
s meg nem vltoztunk. Nem szksges a
vgtelen krdezgetsben val krbe-krbe forgs;
talld meg nmagad, s minden a valdi helyre
kerl.
K: A forrshoz val visszatrs vgya nagyon ritka.
Termszetes dolog ez egyltaln?
M: A kezdetkor a kiramls termszetes, a
beramls pedig a vgn. De valjban a kett
egy, pp gy, mint ahogy a ki s belgzs egyek.
M: Id- s trbeli esemnyek szlets s hall, ok
s okozat tekinthetk egynek; de a test s a testet
lttt a valsgnak nem ugyanazon fokozatai. A test
idben s trben ltezik, muland s korltozott,
mg a lak idtlen s hatrtalan, rk s mindent
that. A kett azonostsa slyos hiba, s vgtelen
szenvedsnek az okozja. Lehet az elmrl s a
testrl gy beszlni, mint amelyek egyek, de a test-
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
body as one, but the body-mind is not the underlying elme nem kpezi valsg alapjt.
reality.
Q: Whoever he may be, the dweller is in control of
the body and, therefore, responsible for it.
M: There is a universal power which is in control and M: Az univerzlis er az, amely vezrel, s felels.
is responsible.
Q: And so, I can do as I like and put the blame on
some universal power? How easy.
M: Yes, very easy. Just realise the One Mover
behind all that moves and leave all to Him. If you do
not hesitate, or cheat, this is the shortest way to
reality. Stand without desire and fear, relinquishing
all control and all responsibility.
Q: What madness.
M: Yes, divine madness. What is wrong in letting go
the illusion of personal control and personal
responsibility? Both are in the mind only. Of course,
as long as you imagine yourself to be in control, you
should also imagine yourself to be responsible. One
implies the other.
Q: How can the universal be responsible for the
particular?
M: All life on earth depends on the sun. Yet you
cannot blame the sun for all that happens, though it
is the ultimate cause. Light causes the colour of the
flower, but it neither controls, nor is responsible for it
directly. It makes it possible, that is all.
Q: What I do not like in all this is taking refuge in
some universal power.
M: You cannot quarrel with facts.
Q: Whose facts? Yours or mine?
M: Yours. You cannot deny my facts, for you do not
know them. Could you know them, you would not
deny them. Here lies the trouble. You take your
imagining for facts and my facts for imagination. I
know for certain that all is one. Differences do not
separate. Either you are responsible for nothing, or
for everything. To imagine that you are in control
and responsible for one body only is the aberration
of the body-mind.
Q: Still, you are limited by your body.
M: Only in matters pertaining to the body. This I do
not mind. It is like enduring the seasons of the year.
144
K: Akrki is legyen , a lak vezreli a testet, s
kvetkezskppen felels rte.
K: s akkor csinlhatok, ami nekem tetszik, s
tulajdontsam a hibt valamilyen univerzlis ernek?
Milyen knny.
M: Igen, nagyon knny. Csak ismerd fel az Egy
Mozgatt minden mgtt, ami mozog, s hagyj
mindent r. Ha nem hezitlsz, s nem csalsz, ez a
legrvidebb t a valsghoz. Lgy vgy s flelem
nlkli, elhagyva mindenfle vezrlst, s minden
felelssget.
K: Micsoda rlet.
M: Igen, isteni rlet. Mi baj van a szemlyes
vezrls, s a szemlyes felelssg illzija
elengedsvel? Mindkett csak az elmben van.
Termszetesen, amg azt kpzeled, hogy te
vezrelsz, felelsnek is kpzeled magadat. Az egyik
maga utn vonja a msikat.
K: Hogyan lehet az univerzlis felels az egyedirt?
M: A Fldn minden let a naptl fgg. Mgsem
tesszk felelss a napot mindenrt, ami
megtrtnik, habr az a vgs ok. A fny okozza a
virg szneit, de sohasem vezrli, s nem is felels
rte kzvetlenl. Lehetv teszi azt, ez minden.
K: Amit nem szeretek ebben az egszben, az a
valamilyen univerzlis erhz val menekls.
M: Nem hibztathatod a tnyeket.
K: Kinek a tnyeit? A tidet vagy az enymet?
M: A tidet. Az n tnyeimet nem tudod tagadni,
mert nem ismered ket. Ha ismernd ket, nem
tagadnd. Ebben rejlik a problma. A te
kpzeldseidet tnyeknek tartod, s az n
tnyeimet kpzeldsnek. n teljes bizonyossggal
tudom, hogy minden egy. A klnbsgek nem
vlasztanak el. Vagy semmirt nem vagy felels,
vagy mindenrt. Azt kpzelni, hogy te vezrelsz egy
testet, s felels vagy rte, csupn a test-elme
aberrcija.
K: Mgis, korltozott vagy a tested ltal.
M: Csak a testtel kapcsolatos dolgokban. Ezzel n
nem trdm. Olyan ez, mint elszenvedni az
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
They come, they go -- they hardly affect me. In the
same way body-minds come and go -- life is forever
in search of new expressions.
Q: As long as you do not put all the burden of evil on
God, I am satisfied. There may be a God for all I
know, but to me he is a concept projected by the
human mind. He may be a reality to you, but to me
society is more real than God, for I am both its
creature and its prisoner. Your values are wisdom
and compassion; society's sagacious selfishness. I
live in a world quite different from yours.
M: None compels.
Q: None compels you, but I am compelled. My world
is an evil world, full of tears, toil and pain. To explain
it away by the intellectualising, by putting forth
theories of evolution and karma is merely adding
insult to injury. The God of an evil world is a cruel
God.
M: You are the god of your world and you are both
stupid and cruel. Let God be a concept -- your own
creation. Find out who you are, how did you come to
live, longing for truth, goodness and beauty in a
world full of evil. Of what use is your arguing for or
against God. When you just do not know who is God
and what are you talking about. The God born of
fear and hope, shaped by desire and imagination,
cannot be the Power That is, the Mind and the Heart
of the universe.
Q: I agree that the world I live in and the God I
believe in are both creatures of imagination. But in
what way are they created by desire? Why do I
imagine a world so painful and a God so indifferent?
What is wrong with me that I should torture myself
so cruelly? The enlightened man comes and tells
me: 'it is but a dream to put an end to', but is he not
himself a part of the dream? I find myself trapped
and see no way out. You say you are free. Of what
are you free? For heaven's sake, don't feed me on
words, enlighten me, help me to wake up, since it is
you who sees me tossing in my sleep.
M: When I say I am free, I merely state a fact. If you
are an adult, you are free from infancy. I am free
from all description and identification. Whatever you
may hear, see, or think of, I am not that. I am free
from being a percept, or a concept.
145
vszakokat. Az vszakok jnnek s mennek alig
vannak rm hatssal. Ugyanilyen mdon jn s
megy a test-elme az let rkk keresi az j
megnyilvnulsokat.
K: Amg nem rakod a gonosz minden terht Istenre,
elgedett vagyok. Lehet, hogy van Isten, mr
amennyire tudom, de szmomra az emberi elme
ltal kivettett koncepci. Lehet, hogy realits
szmodra, de szmomra a trsadalom sokkal
valsgosabb, mint Isten, mert n mindkettnek
teremtmnye s rabja vagyok. A te rtkeid a
blcsessg s a knyrlet; a trsadalom az
rtelmes nzs. n olyan vilgban lek, amely
teljesen ms, mint a tied.
M: Senki nem knyszert.
K: Tged senki nem knyszert, de engem igen. Az
n vilgom egy gonosz vilg, tele knnyekkel,
kszkdssel s fjdalommal. Az intellektualista
flremagyarzs, az olyan terik kifejlesztsvel
karltve, mint evolci s karma, csupn srtssel
tetzi az igazsgtalansgot. Egy gonosz vilgnak az
Istene kegyetlen Isten.
M: Te vagy az istene a te vilgodnak, s te vagy az
ostoba, s kegyetlen is. Legyen Isten koncepci a
te sajt teremtmnyed. Dertsd ki, hogy ki vagy,
hogyan jttl a vilgra, igazsgra, jsgra s
szpsgre svrogva, egy gonoszsggal tele
vilgban. Milyen haszonnal jr, ha akr Isten mellett,
akr ellene rvelsz? Amikor ppen hogy azt nem
tudod, hogy kicsoda Isten, s hogy mi az, amirl
beszlsz. Az Isten, amely flelembl s remnybl
szletett, vgy s kpzelet ltal formlt, nem lehet
azonos azzal az Ervel, Amely az univerzum Elmje
s Szve.
K: Elfogadom, hogy az a vilg, amelyben lek, s az
az Isten, akiben hiszek a kpzelet szlttei. De
milyen mdon lettek a kpzelet ltal ltrehozva?
Mirt tallok ki egy ennyire szenvedssel teli vilgot,
s egy ennyire kznys Istent? Mi bajom, hogy
ilyen kegyetlenl meg kell magam gytrnm? A
megvilgosodott ember jn, s azt mondja nekem:
ez csak egy lom, vess neki vget, de nem maga
is az lom rsze? gy ltom, csapdba kerltem, s
nem ltok kiutat. Te azt mondod, szabad vagy. Mitl
szabadultl meg? Az Isten szerelmre, ne szavakkal
traktlj, vilgosts meg, segts flbrednem, mivel te
vagy az, aki hnykoldni ltsz engem lmomban.
M: Amikor azt mondom, szabad vagyok, pusztn
tnyt llaptok meg. Ha te felntt vagy, akkor mentes
vagy a gyermetegsgtl. n mentes vagyok minden
lerstl s azonosulstl. Brmit hallasz, vagy ltsz,
n nem vagyok az. Mentes vagyok attl, hogy
szlels, vagy fogalom lennk.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: Still, you have a body and you depend on it. K: De ht tested van, s fggesz tle.

M: Again you assume that your point of view is the
only correct one. I repeat: I was not, am not, shall
not be a body. To me this is a fact. I too was under
the illusion of having been born, but my Guru made
me see that birth and death are mere ideas -- birth is
merely the idea: 'I have a body'. And death -- 'I have
lost my body'. Now, when I know I am not a body,
the body may be there or may not -- what difference
does it make? The bodymind is like a room. It is
there, but I need not live in it all the time.
M: Ismt azt felttelezed, hogy egyedl a te
nzpontod korrekt. Megismtlem: Nem voltam,
nem vagyok, s nem leszek test. Szmomra ez tny.
n is abban az illziban ltem, hogy szlettem, de
Gurum felismertette velem a szlets s hall
puszta idea mivoltt a szlets csupn egy idea:
testem van. s a hall elvesztettem a testemet.
Most, mikor tudom, hogy n nem vagyok test, a test
akr ott van, akr nem mi a klnbsg? A test-
elme olyan, mint egy szoba. Itt van, de nekem nem
kell llandan benne lnem.

Q: Yet, there is a body and you do take care of it. K: De mgis, a test ltezik, s te gondot viselsz r.

M: The power that created the body takes care of it. M: A testet ltrehoz er visel r gondot.

Q: We are jumping from level to level all the time. K: Szintrl szintre ugrlunk, mindvgig.

M: There are two levels to consider -- the physical --
of facts, and mental -- of ideas. I am beyond both.
Neither your facts, nor ideas are mine. What I see is
beyond. Cross over to my side and see with me.
M: Kt szintje van a szemlletnek a fizikai ami
tnyek, s a mentlis ami az idek. n
mindkettn tl vagyok. Sem a tnyeid, sem az ideid
nem az enymek. Amit n ltok, az tl van ezeken.
Gyere t az n oldalamra, s lsd, amit n.

Q: What I want to say is very simple. As long as I
believe: 'I am the body', I must not say: 'God will look
after my body'. God will not. He will let it starve,
sicken and die.
K: Amit mondani akarok, az nagyon egyszer. Amg
azt hiszem: a test vagyok, nem mondhatom azt,
hogy: Isten gondjt fogja viselni a testemnek. Nem
fogja. Hagyni fog, hogy hezzek, megbetegedjek s
meghaljak.

M: What else do you expect from a mere body? Why M: Mi egyebet vrsz egy puszta testtl? Mirt vagy
are you so anxious about it? olyan nyugtalan miatta?

Because you think you are the body, you want it Mert azt gondolod, hogy a test vagy, azt akarod,
indestructible. You can extend its life considerably hogy elpusztthatatlan legyen. Alkalmas praktikkkal
by appropriate practices, but for what ultimate good? jelentsen meghosszabbthatod az lett, de milyen
hasznot rhetsz el?

Q: It is better to live long and healthy. It gives us a K: Jobb, ha hossz ideig, s egszsgesen lnk.
chance to avoid the mistakes of childhood and Eslyt ad, hogy kikszblhessk a gyermek- s
youth, the frustrations of adulthood, the miseries and ifjkor hibit, a felnttkor frusztrciit, az regkor
imbecility of old age. szenvedseit s gyengeelmjsgt.

M: By all means live long. But you are not the
master. Can you decide the days of your birth and
death? We are not speaking the same language.
Yours is a make-believe talk, all hangs on
suppositions and assumptions. You speak with
assurance about things you are not sure of.
M: Hogyne, lj tovbb. De nem te vagy a mester.
Kpes vagy meghatrozni a szletsed s a hallod
napjt? Nem ugyanazt a nyelvet beszljk. A tid a
ltszatkelts beszde, amelyben minden
vlekedsektl s feltevsektl fgg. Olyan
dolgokrl beszlsz nagy magabiztossggal, amiben
nem vagy bizonyos.

Q: Therefore, I am here. K: ppen emiatt vagyok itt.

M: You are not yet here. I am here. Come in. But
you don't. You want me to live your life, feel your
way, use your language. I cannot, and it will not help
you. You must come to me. Words are of the mind
and the mind obscures and distorts. Hence the
M: Mg nem vagy itt. n vagyok itt. Hvlak, gyere be.
De te nem jssz. Tlem akarod, hogy az letedet
ljem, az utadat rezzem, a nyelvedet hasznljam.
Nem tudom, s ez nem is segtene rajtad. Neked
kell hozzm jnnd. Szavaid az elme szavai, s az

146
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
absolute need to go beyond words and move over to elme sszezavar, s torzt. Ezrt kell az abszoltnak
my side. tllpnie a szavakon, s neked tjnnd az n
oldalamra.

Q: Take me over. K: Vigyl t.

M: I am doing it, but you resist. You give reality to
concepts, while concepts are distortions of reality.
Abandon all conceptualisation and stay silent and
attentive. Be earnest about it and all will be well with
you.
M: Csinlom, de te ellenllsz. Realitst adsz a
koncepciknak, mikzben a koncepcik a valsg
torzulsai. Hagyj fel minden fogalomalkotssal, s
maradj csendes, s figyelmes. llj hozz komolyan,
s minden jra fordul veled kapcsolatban.

36. Killing Hurts the Killer, not the Killed
Questioner: A thousand years ago a man lived and
died. His identity (antahkarana) re-appeared in a
new body. Why does he not remember his previous
life? And if he does, can the memory be brought into
the conscious?
36. Az ls a gyilkosnak rt, nem a
meggyilkoltnak
Krdez: vezredekkel ezeltt lt egy ember, s
meghalt. Identitsa (antahkarana) ismt megjelent,
egy j testben. Mirt nem emlkszik elz letre?
s ha igen, tudatoss tehet az emlkezet?

Maharaj: How do you know that the same person Maharaj: Honnan tudod, hogy ugyanaz a szemly
re-appeared in the new body? A new body may jelent meg jra, egy j testben? Egy j test jelenthet
mean a new person altogether. egy teljesen j szemlyt is.

Q: Imagine a pot of ghee. (Indian clarified butter).
When the pot breaks, the Ghee remains and can be
transferred to another pot. The old pot had its own
scent, the new -- its own. The Ghee will carry the
scents from pot to pot. In the same way the personal
identity is transferred from body to body.
K: Kpzeljk el, hogy itt van egy bdn ghee. (Indiai
tiszttott vaj.) Ha a bdn eltrik, a ghee megmarad,
s ttehet egy msik bdnbe. A rgi bdnnek is
volt a sajt illata, az jnak is megvan a sajtja. A
ghee magn hordozza az illatokat, bdnrl
bdnre. Ugyangy megy t szemlyes identits is
testbl testbe.

M: It is all right. When there is the body, its
peculiarities affect the person. Without the body we
have the pure identity in the sense of 'I am'. But
when you are reborn in a new body, where is the
world formerly experienced?
M: Rendben. Amikor teste van, akkor a szemlyt
befolysoljk a test sajtossgai. Test nlkl a
szntiszta identitsunk az n vagyok rzetben van.
De amikor egy j testben j letre bredsz, hol
vannak a rgebben tapasztaltak?

Q: Every body experiences its own world. K: Minden test a sajt vilgt tapasztalja.

M: In the present body the old body -- is it merely an M: A jelenlegi testben a rgi test ez puszta idea,
idea, or is it a memory? vagy emlk?

Q: An idea, of course. How can a brain remember K: Termszetesen idea. Hogy emlkezhetne az agy
what it has not experienced? arra emlkezni, amit nem tapasztalt?

M: You have answered your own question. Why play
with ideas? Be content with what you are sure of.
And the only thing you can be sure of is 'I am'. Stay
with it, and reject everything else. This is Yoga.
M: Megvlaszoltad a sajt krdsedet. Mirt jtszol
idekkal? Elgedj meg azzal, amiben biztos vagy.
s az egyetlen dolog, amiben biztos lehetsz az n
vagyok. Maradj benne, s utasts el minden mst.
Ez a Yoga.

Q: I can reject only verbally. At best I remember to K: Csupn verblisan tudom elutastani. A legjobb
repeat the formula: 'This is not me, this is not mine. I esetben is csak emlkezetbl ismtelgetem a
am beyond all this'. formult: ez nem n vagyok, ez nem az enym. n
tl vagyok mindezen.

M: Good enough. First verbally, then mentally and M: Rendben. Elbb verblisan, majd mentlisan s

147
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
emotionally, then in action. Give attention to the
reality within you and it will come to light. It is like
churning the cream for butter. Do it correctly and
assiduously and the result is sure to come.
Q: How can the absolute be the result of a process?
M: You are right, the relative cannot result in the
absolute. But the relative can block the absolute, just
as the non-churning of the cream may prevent the
butter from separating. It is the real that creates the
urge; the inner prompts the outer and the outer
responds in interest and effort. But ultimately there is
no inner, nor outer; the light of consciousness is
both the creator and the creature, the experiencer
and the experience, the body and the embodied.
Take care of the power that projects all this and your
problems will come to an end.
Q: Which is the projecting power?
M: It is imagination prompted by desire.
Q: I know all this, but have no power over it.
M: This is another illusion of yours, born from
craving for results.
Q: What is wrong with purposeful action?
M: It does not apply. In these matters there is no
question of purpose, nor of action. All you need is to
listen, remember, ponder. It is like taking food. All
you can do is to bite off, chew and swallow. All else
is unconscious and automatic. Listen, remember
and understand -- the mind is both the actor and the
stage. All is of the mind and you are not the mind.
The mind is born and reborn, not you. The mind
creates the world and all the wonderful variety of it.
Just like in a good play you have all sorts of
characters and situations, so you need a little of
everything to make a world.
Q: Nobody suffers in a play.
M: Unless one identifies himself with it. Don't identify M: Hacsak nem azonostja magt vele. Ne
yourself with the world and you will not suffer.
Q: Others will.
M: Then make your world perfect, by all means. If
you believe in God, work with Him. It you do not,
become one. Either see the world as a play or work
at it with all your might. Or both.
148
emocionlisan, majd cselekvsben. Irnytsd
figyelmedet a bensdben lv valsgra, s az
napvilgra fog kerlni. Ez olyan, mint amikor a
tejsznbl vajat kplsz. Ha helyesen s kitartan
csinlod, az eredmnynek biztosan be kell
kvetkeznie.
K: Hogy lehet abszolt eredmnye egy
folyamatnak?
M: Igazad van, a relatv nem vgzdhet az
abszoltban. De a relatv korltozhatja az
abszoltot, mint ahogy a tejszn nem-kplse is
akadlyozhatja a vaj kivlst. A valsg hozza ltre
az sztnzst; a bels sarkallja a klst, s a kls
vlasza az rdeklds s erfeszts. De vgs
soron nincs sem bels, sem kls; a teremt, a
teremtett, a tapasztal s a tapasztalat, a test s a
testet lttt mindegyike a tudatossg fnyvel
azonos. Ragadd meg az ert, amely mindezt kivetti,
s problmid vget fognak rni.
K: Mi ez a kivett er?
M: A vgy ltal sztnztt kpzelet.
K: Tudom, de nincs hatalmam fltte.
M: Ez egy msik olyan illzid, amely a knz vgy
eredmnyeknt szletett.
K: Mi a problma a cltudatos cselekvssel?
M: Ez nem erre vonatkozik. Ebben a vonatkozsban
nem jtszik szerepet sem szndk, sem cselekedet.
A tennivald mindssze hallgatni, szben tartani,
elmlkedni. Hasonlan az evshez. Mindssze
harapni, rgni s nyelni van lehetsged. Minden
ms tudattalan s automatikus. Hallgass, emlkezz,
rts az elme cselekv, s llapot is egyttal. Az
elme szletik, s szletik jj, nem te. Minden az
elmben van, s te nem az elme vagy. Az elme
teremti a vilgot s csodlatos vltozatossgnak
sszessgt. Mint egy j jtkban, ahol mindenfle
karakterek s szitucik llnak rendelkezsedre,
ppen gy van szksged egy kicsire mindenbl,
hogy csinlj egy vilgot.
K: Senki nem szenved, mikor jtszik.
azonostsd magad a vilggal, s nem fogsz
szenvedni.
K: Msok fognak.
M: Termszetesen, akkor tkletestsd a vilgodat.
Ha hiszel Istenben, dolgozz egytt Vele. Ha nem,
akkor azonosulj vele. Vagy lsd a vilgot jtknak,
vagy dolgozz rajta minden kpessgeddel. Vagy
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: What about the identify of the dying man? What
happens to it when he is dead? Do you agree that it
continues in another body.
M: It continues and yet it does not. All depends how M: Folytatja is, s nem is. Teljesen attl fgg,
you look at it. What is identity, after all? Continuity in hogyan nzzk. Mi az identits, vgl is? Az
memory? Can you talk of identity without memory?
Q: Yes, I can. The child may not know its parents,
yet the hereditary characteristics will be there.
M: Who identifies them? Somebody with a memory
to register and compare. Don't you see that memory
is the warp of your mental life. And identity is merely
a pattern of events in time and space. Change the
pattern and you have changed the man.
Q: The pattern is significant and important. It has its
own value. By saying that a woven design is merely
coloured threads you miss the most important -- the
beauty of it. Or by describing a book as paper with
ink stains on it, you miss the meaning. Identity is
valuable because it is the basis of individuality; that
which makes us unique and irreplaceable. 'I am', is
the intuition of uniqueness.
M: Yes and no. Identity, individuality, uniqueness --
they are the most valuable aspects of the mind, yet
of the mind only. 'I am all there is' too is an
experience equally valid. The particular and the
universal are inseparable. They are the two aspects
of the nameless, as seen from without and from
within. Unfortunately, words only mention, but don't
convey. Try to go beyond the words.
Q: What dies with death?
M: The idea 'I am this body' dies; the witness does
not.
Q: The Jains believe in a multiplicity of witnesses,
forever separate.
M: That is their tradition based on the experience of
some great people. The one witness reflects itself in
the countless bodies as 'I am'. As long as the
bodies, however subtle, last, the 'I am' appears as
many. Beyond the body there is only the One.
Q: God?
M: The Creator is a person whose body is the world. M: A teremt egy szemly, akinek a teste a vilg. A
The Nameless one is beyond all gods. Nvtelen minden istenek fltt ll.
149
mindkett.
K: Mit gondolsz a haldokl ember identitsrl? Mi
trtnik vele, a halla utn? Egyetrtesz-e azzal,
hogy egy msik testben folytatja?
emlkezet folytonossga? Tudsz identitsrl
beszlni emlkezet nlkl?
K: Igen, tudok. Lehetsges, hogy a gyermek nem
ismeri a szleit, az rkletes tulajdonsgok mgis
benne vannak.
M: Ki azonostja azokat? Valaki az emlkezete
rvn megjegyzi s sszehasonltja. Nem ltod,
hogy mentlis letednek az emlkezet a
vontatktele? s az identits pusztn esemnyek
idbeli s trbeli mintja. Vltoztasd meg a mintt,
s megvltoztattad az embert.
K: A minta lnyeges, s fontos. Sajt rtkkel br.
Ha azt mondod, hogy egy szvsi terv csupn
sznes fonalakbl ll, azt veszted el, ami a
legfontosabb a szpsgt. Vagy, ha egy knyvet
gy rsz le, hogy azok csak paprok, amelyeken
tintafoltok vannak, elveszted a jelentst. Az
identits rtkes, mert ez az egynisgnek az
alapja; az tesz bennnket egyediv, s
ptolhatatlann. Az n vagyok egyedisget sugall.
M: Igen, s nem. Identits, individualits, egyedisg
ezek az elme legrtkesebb aspektusai, de csak
az elm. Az n vagyok minden egy olyan
tapasztalat, ami szintn rvnyes. Az egyedi s az
univerzlis elvlaszthatatlanok. Ezek a nvtelen kt
aspektusa, kvlrl s bellrl nzve. Sajnos, a
szavak csak utalsok valamire, de nem hordozzk
azt. Prbld meghaladni a szavakat.
K: Mi hal meg a halllal?
M: Az n vagyok a test idea meghal, a tansg
nem.
K: A Jaink a tank sokflesgben hisznek,
amelyek rkre elklnltek.
M: Az hagyomnyuk sok kimagasl ember
tapasztalatain alapulnak. Az egyetlen tan
szmtalan testben tkrzi magt n vagyok-knt.
Amg a testek, jllehet szubtilis llapotban,
fnnmaradnak, az n vagyok sokknt jelenik meg.
A testen tl csak az Egyetlen van.
K: Isten?
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: Sri Ramana Maharshi died. What difference did it K: Sri Ramana Maharshi meghalt. Milyen
make to him? klnbsget jelent ez szmra?
M: None. What he was, he is -- the Absolute Reality. M: Semmilyent. Ami volt, most is az az Abszolt
Valsg.
Q: But to the common man death makes a
difference.
M: What he thinks himself to be before death he
continues to be after death. His self-image survives.
Q: The other day there was a talk about the use by
the gnani of animal skins for meditation etc. I was
not convinced. It is easy to justify everything by
referring to custom and tradition. Customs may be
cruel and tradition corrupt. They explain, but do not
justify.
M: I never meant to say that lawlessness follows
self-realisation. A liberated man is extremely law-
abiding. But his laws are the laws of his real self, not
of his society. These he observes, or breaks
according to circumstances and necessity. But he
will never be fanciful and disorderly.
Q: What I cannot accept is justification by custom
and habit.
M: The difficulty lies in our differing points of view.
You speak from the body-mind's. Mine is of the
witness. The difference is basic.
Q: Still, cruelty is cruelty
M: None compels you to be cruel.
Q: Taking advantage of other people's cruelty is
cruelty by proxy.
M: If you look into living process closely, you will find
cruelty everywhere, for life feeds on life. This is a
fact, but it does not make you feel guilty of being
alive. You began a life of cruelty by giving your
mother endless trouble. To the last day of your life
you will compete for food, clothing, shelter, holding
on to your body, fighting for its needs, wanting it to
be secure, in a world of insecurity and death. From
the animal's point of view being killed is not the
worst form of dying; surely preferable to sickness
and senile decay. The cruelty lies in the motive, not
in the fact. Killing hurts the killer, not the killed.
150
K: De egy kznsges ember halla klnbsggel
jr.
M: Amit magrl gondol, hogy mi a halla eltt, az
folytatdik a halla utn. Az nkpe tovbb l.
K: A minap sz volt rla, hogy a gnani mirt hasznl
llatbrket a meditcija sorn, stb. Engem nem
sikerlt meggyzni. Mindent knnyen lehet igazolni
a szoksokra s hagyomnyokra hivatkozva.
Elfordul, hogy a szoksok kegyetlenek, s a
hagyomnyok erklcstelenek. Megmagyarztad, de
nem bizonytottad be.
M: Sohasem llt szndkomban azt mondani, hogy
a nmegvalstsbl trvnytelensg kvetkezik. A
megszabadult ember mdfelett trvnytisztel. De
az trvnyei sajt valdi njnek, nem pedig a
trsadalomnak a trvnyei. Utbbiakat betartja, vagy
megszegi, megfelelen a krlmnyeknek s a
szksgszersgnek. De sohasem szeszlyes s
fegyelmezetlen.
K: Nem tudom elfogadni a szoksra s habitusra
alapozott igazols.
M: A nehzsg nzpontjaink klnbzsgben
rejlik. Te a test-elme nzpontjbl beszlsz. n
viszont a tansgbl. Alapvet klnbsg.
K: De a kegyetlensg akkor is kegyetlensg.
M: Senki nem knyszert kegyetlensgre.
K: A msik ember kegyetlensgnek a kihasznlsa
megbzsbl elkvetett kegyetlensg.
M: Ha kzelrl megvizsglod az let folyamatt,
mindentt kegyetlensget tallsz, mert az let lettel
tpllkozik. Ez tnykrds, mgsem okoz benned
bntudatot az, hogy llny vagy. Megszlettl egy
kegyetlen letre, amelyet desanyd vgtelen
szenvedse rn kaptl. leted utols napjig
versenyzel telrt, ruhzatrt, fedlrt, tested
fenntartsrt, harcolsz annak szksgleteirt,
biztonsgban akarod tudni, a bizonytalansg s
hall vilgban. llati nzpontbl nem a meglets
a legrosszabb formja a hallnak; a betegsgnl s
aggkori szenilitsnl biztosan jobb. A kegyetlensg
a motivciban ll, nem a tnyben. Az ls a
gyilkosnak rt, nem a megltnek.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: Agreed; then one must not accept the services of K: Egyetrtek; de akkor az embernek nem szabad
hunters and butchers. elfogadnia a vadszok s hentesek szolgltatsait.
M: Who wants you to accept?
Q: You accept.
M: That is how you see me. How quickly you
accuse, condemn, sentence and execute. Why
begin with me and not with yourself?
Q: A man like you should set an example.
M: Are you ready to follow my example? I am dead
to the world, I want nothing, not even to live. Be as I
am, do as I do. You are judging me by my clothes
and food; while I only look at your motives; if you
believe to be the body and the mind and act on it
you are guilty of the greatest cruelty -- cruelty to your
own real being. Compared to it all other cruelties do
not count.
Q: You are taking refuge in the claim that you are
not the body. But you are in control of the body and
responsible for all it does. To allow the body full
autonomy would be imbecility, madness.
M: Cool down. I am also against all killing of animals
for flesh or fur, but I refuse to give it first place.
Vegetarianism is a worthy cause, but not the most
urgent; all causes are served best by the man who
has returned to his source.
Q: When I was at Sri Ramanashram, I felt Bhagwan
all over the place, all-pervading, all-perceiving.
M: You had the necessary faith. Those who have
true faith in him will see him everywhere and at all
times. All happens according to your faith and your
faith is the shape of your desire.
Q: The faith you have in yourself, is not that too a
shape of a desire?
M: When I say: 'I am', I do not mean a separate
entity with a body as its nucleus. I mean the totality
of being, the ocean of consciousness, the entire
universe of all that is and knows. I have nothing to
desire for I am complete forever.
Q: Can you touch the inner life of other people?
151
M: Ki akarja, hogy elfogadd?
K: Te fogadod el.
M: Te vagy az, aki gy ltsz engem. Milyen gyors
vagy a vdolsban, elmarasztalsban, tlkezsben
s vgrehajtsban. Mirt velem kezded, s nem
sajt magaddal?
K: Egy olyan embernek, mint te, pldt kell
mutatnia.
M: Ksz vagy r, hogy kvesd a pldmat? n
meghaltam a vilg szmra, nem akarok semmit,
mg lni sem. Legyl, mint n, tegyl, mint n. Te az
ltzkem s az telem alapjn tlsz meg engem,
mg n csak indt okaidat tekintem; ha te a testnek,
s az elmnek hiszed magad, s ennek megfelelen
cselekszel, akkor vtkes vagy a legnagyobb
kegyetlensgben kegyetlen vagy sajt valdi
lnyeddel szemben. Ehhez kpest a tbbi
kegyetlensg nem szmt.
K: Te menedket talltl abban az lltsban, hogy
te nem a test vagy. De ellenrzst gyakorolsz a test
felett, s felels vagy mindenrt, amit az csinl.
Ostobasg, rltsg azt lltani, hogy a test teljesen
autonm.
M: Htsd le magad. n is ellenzem, hogy llatokat
ljenek a hsukrt vagy az irhjukrt, de elutastom,
hogy ezt az els helyre soroljam. A vegetarianizmus
j gy, de nem a legsrgsebb; az sszes indtkot
az az ember szolglja a legjobban, aki visszatr
sajt forrshoz.
K: Amikor Sri Ramanashramban voltam, gy
reztem, hogy Bhagawan mindentt ott volt, mindent
betlt, mindent szlel mdon.
M: Rendelkeztl hozz a szksges hittel. Akik
igazn hisznek benne, mindentt s llandan ltni
fogjk t. Minden a hited szerint trtnik, s hited
formja a vgy.
K: Az a hit, amely tebenned van, nem ugyancsak
formja a vgynak?
M: Amikor azt mondom: n vagyok, nem egy
klnll entitsra gondolok, annak magjaknt egy
testtel. A lt totalitsra gondolok, a tudatossg
cenjra, a teljes univerzumra mindennek, ami
van s tud. Semmire sem kell vgynom, mert n
mindrkk teljes vagyok.
K: Meg tudod rintetni egy msik ember bels
lett?
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
M: I am the people.
Q: I do not mean identity of essence or substance,
nor similarity of form. I mean the actual entering into
the minds and hearts of others and participating in
their personal experiences. Can you suffer and
rejoice with me, or you only infer what I feel from
observation and analogy?
M: All beings are in me. But bringing down into the
brain the content of another brain requires special
training. There is nothing that cannot be achieved by
training.
Q: I am not your projection, nor are you mine. I am
on my own right, not merely as your creation. This
crude philosophy of imagination and projection does
not appeal to me. You are depriving me of all reality.
Who is the image of whom? You are my image or
am I yours. Or am I an image in my own image. No,
something is wrong somewhere.
M: Words betray their hollowness. The real cannot
be described, it must be experienced. I cannot find
better words for what I am now. What I say may
sound ridiculous. But what the words try to convey is
the highest truth. All is one, however much we
quibble. And all is done to please the one source
and goal of every desire. Whom we all know as the 'I
am'.
Q: It is pain that is at the root of desire. The basic
urge is to escape from pain.
M: What is the root of pain? Ignorance of yourself.
What is the root of desire? The urge to find yourself.
All creation toils for its self and will not rest until it
returns to it.
Q: When will it return?
M: It can return whenever you want it.
Q: And the world?
M: You can take it with you.
Q: Must I wait with helping the world until I reach
perfection?
M: By all means help the world. You will not help
much, but the effort will make you grow. There is
nothing wrong in trying to help the world.
152
M: n vagyok az ember.
K: Nem lnyegi vagy szubsztancilis azonossgra
gondolok, sem formabeli hasonlatossgra. Az
elmbe s a szvbe, vagy ms rszbe val
tnyleges belpsre, s a szemlyes
tapasztalataiban val rszeslsre gondolok. Tudsz
velem szenvedni s rvendezni, vagy puszta
megfigyels s analgia alapjn kvetkeztetsz arra,
hogy mit rzek?
M: Minden ltez bennem van. De letlteni az agyba
egy msik agy tartalmt, specilis kpzst ignyel.
Semmi olyan nincs, amit ne lehetne elrni
kpzssel.
K: Nem vagyok a kivettsed, s te sem vagy az
enym. n sajt jogon ltezem, nem pusztn a te
teremtmnyedknt. Az imagincinak s
projekcinak ez a nyers filozfija nem vonz engem.
Megfosztasz engem minden realitstl. Ki a kpe
kinek? Te vagy az n kpem, vagy n a tied. Vagy
n egy kp vagyok a sajt kpemben. Nem, valami
hibdzik valahol.
M: A szavak rulkodnak ressgkrl. A valdi nem
rhat le, azt tapasztalni kell. Nem tallok jobb
szavakat arra, ami most vagyok. Amit mondok,
kptelensgnek hangozhat. De amit a szavak
megprblnak kzvetteni, az a legmagasabb
igazsg. Minden egy, akrmennyire csrjk-
csavarjuk. s minden azrt trtnt, hogy
megrvendeztesse az egyetlen forrst, s minden
vgy cljt. Akit gy ismernk, hogy n vagyok.
K: Fjdalom gykere a vgy. A fjdalomtl val
megszabaduls alapvet sztn.
M: Mi a fjdalomnak a gykere? A te tudatlansgod.
Mi a vgynak a gykere? A bels sztn, hogy
megtalld nmagad. Minden teremtmny nmagrt
fradozik, s nem fog nyugodni, mg vissza nem tr
hozz.
K: Mikor tr vissza?
M: Visszatrhet, amikor csak akarod.
K: s a vilg?
M: Magaddal viheted.
K: Vrnom kell a vilg megsegtsvel, amg el nem
rem a tkletessget?
M: Hogyne, segtsd a vilgot. Nem fog sokat rni a
segtsged, de az erfeszts a te nvekedsedet
segteni fogja. Nincs benne semmi helytelen, ha
segteni prblsz a vilgon.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok

Q: Surely there were people, common people, who K: Bizonyra voltak emberek, egyszer emberek,
helped greatly. akik nagymrtkben segtettk.

M: When the time comes for the world to be helped, M: Amikor eljn a vilg megsegtsnek az ideje,
some people are given the will, the wisdom and the lesznek, akik meg fogjk kapni az akaratot, a
power to cause great changes. blcsessget, s az ert, hogy elindtsk a nagy
vltozsokat.

37. Beyond Pain and Pleasure there is 37. A fjdalmon s lvezeten tl

Bliss
Maharaj: You must realise first of all that you are the
proof of everything, including yourself. None can
prove your existence, because his existence must
be confirmed by you first. Your being and knowing
you owe nobody. Remember, you are entirely on
your own. You do not come from somewhere, you
do not go anywhere. You are timeless being and
awareness.
boldogsg van
Maharaj: Fel kell ismerned elbb, hogy te vagy a
bizonytka mindennek, nmagadat is belertve.
Senki nem tudja bizonytani a te ltezsedet, mert
elszr az ltezsnek kell hitelestdnie teltalad.
Lted s nmagad ismerete senki msra nem
tartozik. Tartsd emlkezetedben, hogy teljesen
egyedl vagy. Nem jssz valahonnan, s nem tartasz
valahov. Te az idtlen lt s ber-tudatossg vagy.

Questioner: There is a basic difference between us.
You know the real while I know only the workings of
my mind. Therefore what you say is one thing, what
I hear is another. What you say is true; what I
understand is false, though the words are the same.
There is a gap between us. How to close the gap?
Krdez: Van egy alapvet klnbsg kzttnk.
Te ismered a valsgot, mg n csak az elmm
mkdst ismerem. Ezrt amit te mondasz az egy
dolog, amit n hallok, az egy msik. Amit te
mondasz, az igaz; amit n rtek, az hamis, br a
szavak ugyanazok. Szakadk van kzttnk.
Hogyan kell thidalni a szakadkot?

M: Give up the idea of being what you think yourself
to be and there will be no gap. By imagining yourself
as separate you have created the gap. You need not
cross it. Just don't create it. All is you and yours.
There is nobody else. This is a fact.
M: Add fel az idet, hogy az vagy, aminek gondolod
magad, s el fog tnni a szakadk. Azzal
teremtetted meg a szakadkot, hogy nmagadat
elklnltnek kpzeled. Nem tkelned kell rajta.
Csak ne hozd ltre. Mindez te vagy, s a tid. Senki
ms nincs. Ez tny.

Q: How strange. The very same words which to you K: Milyen klns. Ugyanazon szavak neked
are true, to me are false. 'There is nobody else'. How igazak, szmomra hamisak. Nincs senki ms.
obviously untrue. Milyen kzenfekv valtlansg.

M: Let them be true or untrue. Words don't matter. M: Legyenek igazak vagy valtlanok. A szavak nem
What matters is the idea you have of yourself, for it szmtanak. Ami szmt az a magaddal kapcsolatos
blocks you. Give it up. ided, mert az korltoz tged. Add fel.

Q: From early childhood I was taught to think that I
am limited to my name and shape. A mere
statement to the contrary will not erase the mental
groove. A regular brain-washing is needed -- if at all
it can be done.
K: Kora gyermekkoromtl azt tanultam, hogy gy
gondoljak nmagamra, mint aki nevre s formjra
korltozdik. Egyetlen ezzel ellenkez kijelents
nem fogja kitrlni a mentlis megszokst.
Szablyos agymossra lenne szksg ha van
ilyen egyltaln.

M: You call it brain-washing, I call it Yoga -- levelling M: Nevezd agymossnak, n Yognak nevezem
up all the mental ruts. You must not be compelled to magasabb sznvonalra helyezve ezzel a mentlis
think the same thoughts again and again. Move on. bevsdseket. Nem vagy knytelen ugyanazokat a
gondolatokat gondolni, jra s jra. Lpj tovbb.

Q: Easier said than done. K: Knnyebb mondani, mint megtenni.

M: Don't be childish. Easier to change, than to M: Ne gyerekeskedj. Knnyebb vltozni, mint

153
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
suffer. Grow out of your childishness, that is all.
Q: Such things are not done. They happen.
M: Everything happens all the time, but you must be M: Minden trtnik, szakadatlanul, de neked kszen
ready for it. Readiness is ripeness. You do not see kell llnod r. A kszenlt rettsg. Nem ltod a
the real because your mind is not ready for it. valsgot, mert elmd nem ll kszen r.
Q: If reality is my real nature, how can I ever be
unready?
M: Unready means afraid. You are afraid of what
you are. Your destination is the whole. But you are
afraid that you will lose your identity. This is
childishness, clinging to the toys, to your desires and
fears, opinions and ideas. Give it all up and be ready
for the real to assert itself. This self-assertion is best
expressed in words: 'I am'. Nothing else has being.
Of this you are absolutely certain.
Q: I am', of course, but 'I know' also. And I know
that I am so and so, the owner of the body, in
manifold relations with other owners.
M: It is all memory carried over into the now.
Q: I can be certain only of what is now. Past and
future, memory and imagination, these are mental
states, but they are all I know and they are now. You
are telling me to abandon them. How does one
abandon the now?
M: You are moving into the future all the time
whether you like it or not.
Q: I am moving from now into now -- I do not move
at all. Everything else moves -- not me.
M: Granted. But your mind does move. In the now
you are both the movable and the immovable. So far
you took yourself to be the movable and overlooked
the immovable. Turn your mind inside out. Overlook
the movable and you will find yourself to be the ever-
present, changeless reality, inexpressible, but solid
like a rock.
Q: If it is now, why am I not aware of it?
M: Because you hold on to the idea that you are not
aware of it. Let go the idea.
Q: It does not make me aware.
M: Wait. You want to be on both sides of the wall at
the same time. You can, but you must remove the
154
szenvedni. Nj ki a gyerekessgbl, ez minden.
K: Az ilyen dolgokat nem megcsinljk. Ezek
megtrtnnek.
K: Ha a valsg az n valdi termszetem, hogyan
lehetek egyltaln kszletlen?
M: A kszletlensg flelmet jelent. Flsz attl, ami
vagy. A te sorsod az egsz. De te attl flsz, hogy
elveszted az identitsodat. Ez gyerekessg, ez a
ragaszkods a jtkokhoz, a vgyaidhoz s
flelmeidhez, nzeteidhez s ideidhoz. Add fel
mindet, s kszen fogsz llni arra, hogy a valsg
kijelentse nmagt. Ez az n-kijelents szavakkal
gy fejezhet ki legjobban, hogy: n vagyok.
Semmi ms nem ltezik. Ebben abszolt bizonyos
lehetsz.
K: n vagyok, termszetesen, de n tudok is. s
tudom, hogy n ez s ez vagyok, a testnek a
tulajdonosa, mindenfle kapcsolatban ms
tulajdonosokkal.
M: Ezt mind az emlkezet hozta t a mostba.
K: Csak abban lehetek biztos, ami most van. Mlt s
jv, emlkezet s kpzelet mentlis llapotok, de
mindegyikket ismerem, s ezek most vannak. Azt
mondod, hagyjam el ket. Hogyan hagyhatn el
brki a mostot?
M: Szakadatlanul a jv fel mozogsz, tetszik, vagy
sem.
K: n a mostbl a mostba mozgok egyltaln nem
mozgok. Minden ms mozog n nem.
M: Nem bnom. De az elmd mozog. A mostban
mind a mozdthat, mind a nem mozdthatatlan te
vagy. Eddig a mozdthatnak tekintetted magad, s
nem vettl tudomst a nem mozdthatrl. Fordtsd
visszjra a gondolkodsodat. Hagyd figyelmen
kvl a mozdthatt, s r fogsz bredni, hogy a
mindig jelen lev, vltozatlan realits vagy,
kifejezhetetlenl, de tmren, akr a k.
K: Ha ez most van, mirt nem vagyok tudatban?
M: Mert ragaszkodsz a gondolathoz, hogy nem vagy
tudatban. Ereszd el ezt a gondolatot.
K: Ez nem tesz engem tudatoss.
M: Vrj. Egyszerre akarsz lenni a fal mindkt
oldaln. Megteheted, de el kell tvoltanod a falat.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
wall. Or realise that the wall and both sides of it are
one single space, to which no idea like 'here' or
'there' applies.
Q: Similes prove nothing. My only complaint is this:
why do I not see what you see, why your words do
not sound true in my mind. Let me know this much;
all else can wait. You are wise and I am stupid; you
see, I don't. Where and how shall I find my wisdom?
M: If you know yourself to be stupid, you are not
stupid at all.
Q: Just as knowing myself sick does not make me
well, so knowing myself foolish can not make me
wise.
M: To know that you are ill must you not be well
initially?
Q: Oh, no. I know by comparison. If I am blind from
birth and you tell me that you know things without
touching them, while I must touch to know, I am
aware that I am blind without knowing what does it
mean to see. Similarly, I know that I am lacking
something when you assert things which I cannot
grasp. You are telling me such wonderful things
about myself; according to you I am eternal,
omnipresent, omniscient, supremely happy, creator,
preserver and destroyer of all there is, the source of
all life, the heart of being, the lord and the beloved of
every creature. You equate me with the Ultimate
Reality, the source and the goal of all existence. I
just blink, for I know myself to be a tiny little bundle
of desires and fears, a bubble of suffering, a
transient flash of consciousness in an ocean of
darkness.
M: Before pain was, you were. After pain had gone,
you remained. Pain is transient, you are not.
Q: I am sorry, but I do not see what you see. From
the day I was born till the day I die, pain and
pleasure will weave the pattern of my life. Of being
before birth and after death I know nothing. I neither
accept nor deny you. I hear what you say, but I do
not know it.
M: Now you are conscious, are you not?
Q: Please do not ask me about before and after. I
just know only what is now.
M: Good enough. You are conscious. Hold on to it.
There are states when you are not conscious. Call it
155
Vagy ismerd fel, hogy a fal, s annak mindkt oldala
egyetlen tr, amelyre nzve nem alkalmazhatk
olyan idek, mint itt s ott.
K: A hasonlatok semmit nem bizonytanak. Egyetlen
kifogsom a kvetkez: mirt nem ltom, amit te
ltsz, szavaid mirt nem hangoznak igaznak az
elmmben? Hadd tudjak ennyit, minden ms vrhat.
Te blcs vagy, n ostoba; te ltsz, n nem. Hol s
hogyan tallom meg a blcsessgemet?
M: Ha butnak ismered magad, akkor egyltaln
nem vagy buta.
K: Ahogy attl, hogy ismerem a betegsgemet, nem
leszek jobban, ppgy attl, hogy ostobnak
ismerem magam, nem vlok blccs.
M: Ahhoz, hogy betegsg tudatod legyen, nem kell-
e elbb egszsgesnek lenned?
K: , nem. Mondok egy hasonlatot. Ha
szletsemtl vak vagyok, s te kzld, hogy
megrintsk nlkl is ismered a dolgokat, mg
nekem tapintanom kell a megismerskhz, akkor
tudatban vagyok a vaksgomnak anlkl is, hogy
tudnm, mit jelent ltni. n hasonlkppen tudom,
hogy hinyban vagyok valaminek, amikor
kijelentesz dolgokat, amelyeket n felfogni sem
tudok. Te olyan csodlatos dolgokat mondasz
nekem nmagamrl; hogy hozzd hasonlan rk
vagyok, mindentt jelenval, mindentud, a
legteljesebb mdon boldog, teremtje, megrzje s
puszttja mindennek, ami van, minden let forrsa,
a lt kzpontja, minden teremtmny ura s
szerelmese. Azonosnak tekintesz engem a Vgs
Valsggal, minden ltez forrsval s cljval.
Csak pislogok, mert n a vgyak s flelmek egy
parnyi csomagjnak ismerem magam, egy
szenveds buborknak, a tudatossg egy ml
felvillansnak a sttsg cenjban.
M: Mieltt fjdalom volt, te voltl. Miutn a fjdalom
eltvozott, te megmaradsz. A fjdalom muland, te
nem vagy az.
K: Sajnlom, de n nem ltom, amit te ltsz. Attl a
naptl, hogy megszlettem, addig a napig, hogy
meghalok, fjdalom s rm szvik letem mintjt.
Szletsem eltti s hallom utni ltrl semmit sem
tudok. Nem tudlak sem elfogadni, sem cfolni.
Hallom, amit mondasz, de nem tudom azt.
M: Most tudatos vagy, ugye?
K: Krlek, ne krdezz engem elttrl s utnrl.
Csak azt tudom, hogy most mi van.
M: Nagyon j. Tudatos vagy. Ragaszkodj hozz.
Vannak llapotok, amikor nem vagy tudatos. Nevezd
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
unconscious being.
Q: Being unconscious?
M: Consciousness and unconsciousness do not
apply here. Existence is in consciousness, essence
is independent of consciousness.
Q: It is void? Is it silence?
M: Why elaborate? Being pervades and transcends
consciousness. Objective consciousness is a part of
pure consciousness, not beyond it.
Q: How do you come to know a state of pure being
which is neither conscious nor unconscious? All
knowledge is in consciousness only. There may be
such a state as the abeyance of the mind. Does
consciousness then appear as the witness?
M: The witness only registers events. In the
abeyance of the mind even the sense 'I am'
dissolves. There is no 'I am' without the mind.
Q: Without the mind means without thoughts. 'I am'
as a thought subsides. 'I am' as the sense of being
remains.
M: All experience subsides with the mind. Without
the mind there can be no experiencer nor
experience.
Q: Does not the witness remain?
M: The witness merely registers the presence or
absence of experience. It is not an experience by
itself, but it becomes an experience when the
thought: 'I am the witness' arises.
Q: All I know is that sometimes the mind works and
sometimes it stops. The experience of mental
silence I call the abeyance of the mind.
M: Call it silence, or void, or abeyance, the fact is
that the three -- experiencer, experiencing,
experience -- are not. In witnessing, in awareness,
self-consciousness, the sense of being this or that,
is not. Unidentified being remains.
Q: As a state of unconsciousness?
M: With reference to anything, it is the opposite. It is
also between and beyond all opposites. It is neither
consciousness nor unconsciousness, nor midway,
nor beyond the two. It is by itself, not with reference
to anything which may be called experience or its
absence.
156
azt tudattalan ltnek.
K: Tudattalan lt?
M: Tudatossg s tudattalansg itt nem
alkalmazhatk. Ltezs a tudatossgban van, a
lnyeg fggetlen a tudatossgtl.
K: res az? Nma?
M: Mirt kompliklod? A lt thatja s meghaladja a
tudatossgot. Az objektv tudatossg rsze a tiszta
tudatossgnak, nem haladja meg azt.
K: Hogy ismerted meg a tiszta lt llapott, amely
sem nem tudatos, sem nem tudattalan? Mindenfle
tudsrl csak tudatossg esetn lehet beszlni.
Lehetsges olyan llapot, amelyben az elme
felfggesztett. A tudatossg ekkor tanknt jelenik
meg?
M: A tan csak regisztrlja az esemnyeket. Az
elme felfggesztsekor mg az n vagyok rzse
is szertefoszlik. Nincs n vagyok az elme nlkl.
K: Elme nlkl azt jelenti, gondolatok nlkl. n
vagyok, mint a lecsndesed gondolat. n vagyok,
mint a fennmarad ltezs rzs.
M: Minden tapasztalat lecsndesedik az elmvel. Az
elme nlkl nem lehet sem tapasztal, sem
tapasztalat.
K: A tan nem marad fenn?
M: A tan csupn regisztrlja a tapasztalat
megjelenst vagy hinyt. Ez nem egy nmagtl
val tapasztalat, de tapasztalatt vlik, amikor az n
vagyok a tan gondolat megjelenik.
K: Csak azt tudom, hogy nmelykor mkdik az
elme, s nmelykor lell. n a mentlis csend
tapasztalatt az elme lenyugodott llapotnak
nevezem.
M: Mindegy, minek nevezed csendnek, rnek, vagy
lenyugodott llapotnak, nem vltoztat a tnyen, hogy
a hrmassg tapasztal, tapasztals, tapasztalat
nem ltezik. A tansgban, bersgben
ntudatossg, az ekknt vagy akknt val ltezs
rzse nem ltezik. Azonostatlan ltez marad.
K: Olyan, mint a tudattalansg llapota?
M: Minden olyannak, ami kapcsolatban van
valamivel, az ellentte. De ott van minden ellenttek
kztt, s azokon tl is. Se nem tudatossg, se nem
tudatlansg, se nem a kett kztti, se nem a kettn
tli. nmagtl val, nincs kapcsolatban semmivel,
amelyet tapasztalatnak nevezhetnk, vagy annak
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
hinynak.

Q: How strange. You speak of it as if it were an K: Milyen klns. gy beszlsz rla, mintha
experience. tapasztalat lenne.

M: When I think of it -- it becomes an experience. M: Amikor rgondolok tapasztalatt vlik.

Q: Like the invisible light, intercepted by a flower, K: Mint a lthatatlan fny, amely, ha tjba kerl egy
becoming colour? virg, sznn vlik?

M: Yes, you may say so. It is in the colour but not M: Igen, mondhatjuk gy. A sznben van, de nem a
the colour. szn.

Q: The same old four-fold negation of Nagarjuna: K: Ugyanaz a rgi Nagarjunai ngyszeres negci:
neither this nor that, nor both, nor either. My mind sem ez sem az, sem mindkett, sem egyik sem.
reels. Kvlyog az eszem.

M: Your difficulty stems from the idea that reality is a
state of consciousness, one among many. You tend
to say: "This is real. That is not real. And this is
partly real, partly unreal", as if reality were an
attribute or quality to have in varying measures.
M: A zavarod abbl az idebl szrmazik, hogy a
valsg egy tudatossgi llapot, egy a sok kzl.
Hajlamos vagy azt mondani: Ez vals. Az nem
vals. s ez rszben vals, rszben nem vals,
mintha a valsg egy attribtum, vagy minsg
lenne, amelynek klnbz mrtkei vannak.

Q: Let me put it differently. After all, consciousness
becomes a problem only when it is painful. An ever-
blissful state does not give rise to questions. We find
all consciousness to be a mixture of the pleasant
and the painful. Why?
K: Hadd fogalmazzak mskpp. A tudatossg,
tulajdonkppen, csak akkor vlik problmv, ha
fjdalmas. Az llandan boldogsgteli llapot nem
szolgltat r okot, hogy krdsek merljenek fel.
Minden tudatossgot lvezet s szenveds
keverknek tallunk. Mirt?

M: All consciousness is limited and therefore painful. M: Minden tudatossg korltozott, s ezrt
At the root of consciousness lies desire, the urge to fjdalomteli. A tudatossg gykere a vgy, az
experience. elenllhatatlan tapasztalni vgys.

Q: Do you mean to say that without desire there can
be no consciousness? And what is the advantage of
being unconscious? If I have to forego pleasure for
the freedom from pain, I better keep both.
K: Azt akarod mondani, hogy vgy nlkl nem
ltezhetne tudatossg? s mi az elnye a tudattalan
ltezsnek? Ha le kell mondanom az lvezetrl a
fjdalomtl val megszabaduls rdekben, jobb, ha
megtartom mindkettt.

M: Beyond pain and pleasure there is bliss. M: A fjdalmon s az lvezeten tl boldogsg van.

Q: Unconscious bliss, of what use is it? K: Mi haszna a tudattalan boldogsgnak?

M: Neither conscious nor unconscious. Real. M: Az se nem tudatos, se nem tudattalan. Valdi.

Q: What is your objection to consciousness? K: Mi kifogsod a tudatossggal szemben?

M: It is a burden. Body means burden. Sensations, M: Az, hogy teher. A test jelentse teher.
desires, thoughts -- these are all burdens. All Benyomsok, vgyak, gondolatok ezek mind
consciousness is of conflict. terhek. Minden tudatossg a konfliktus.

Q: Reality is described as true being, pure K: A valsgot tiszta ltknt, tiszta tudatossgknt,
consciousness, infinite bliss. What has pain to do vgtelen boldogsgknt jellemzed. Mi kze ennek a
with it? fjdalomhoz?

M: Pain and pleasure happen, but pain is the price M: A fjdalom s az lvezet trtnsek, de az
of pleasure, pleasure is the reward of pain. In life too lvezet ra fjdalom, a fjdalom jutalma lvezet. Az
you often please by hurting and hurt by pleasing. To letben is gyakran okoz lvezetet a fjdalom, s

157
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
know that pain and pleasure are one is peace.
Q: All this is very interesting, no doubt, but my goal
is more simple. I want more pleasure and less pain
in life. What am I to do?
M: As long as there is consciousness, there must be M: Amg tudatossg van, addig lennie kell
pleasure and pain. It is in the nature of the 'I am', of lvezetnek s fjdalomnak is. Azn vagyok, a
consciousness, to identify itself with the opposites.
Q: Then of what use is all this to me? It does not
satisfy.
M: Who are you, who is unsatisfied?
Q: I am, the pain-pleasure man.
M: Pain and pleasure are both ananda (bliss). Here I
am sitting in front of you and telling you -- from my
own immediate and unchanging experience -- pain
and pleasure are the crests and valleys of the waves
in the ocean of bliss. Deep down there is utter
fullness.
Q: Is your experience constant?
M: It is timeless and changeless.
Q: All I know is desire for pleasure and fear of pain.
M: That is what you think about yourself. Stop it. If
you cannot break a habit all at once, consider the
familiar way of thinking and see its falseness.
Questioning the habitual is the duty of the mind.
What the mind created, the mind must destroy. Or
realise that there is no desire outside the mind and
stay out.
Q: Honestly, I distrust this explaining everything as
mind-made. The mind is only an instrument, as the
eye is an instrument. Can you say that perception is
creation? I see the world through the window, not in
the window. All you say holds well together because
of the common foundation, but I do not know
whether your foundation is in reality, or only in the
mind. I can have only a mental picture of it. What it
means to you I do not know.
M: As long as you take your stand in the mind, you
will see me in the mind.
Q: How inadequate are words for understanding.
158
fjdalmat az lvezet. Annak tudsa, hogy a fjdalom
s az lvezet egyek, a bke.
K: Mindez ktsg kvl nagyon rdekes, de nekem
sokkal egyszerbb a clom. Tbb lvezetet akarok,
s kevesebb fjdalmat az letemben. Mit kell
tennem?
tudatossg termszethez hozztartozik, hogy
azonostja magt az ellenttekkel.
K: Akkor mi haszna szmomra mindennek? Ez nem
kielgt szmomra.
M: Ki vagy te, ki kielgtetlen?
K: n vagyok, a szenved-lvez ember.
M: Fjdalom s lvezet egyarnt ananda
(boldogsg). Itt lnk, egymssal szemben, s azt
mondom neked az n sajt kzvetlen s
vltozatlan tapasztalatom alapjn -, hogy fjdalom
s lvezet a boldogsg cenja hullmainak tarja
s vlgye. Lenn a mlysgben van az abszolt
teljessg.
K: lland a tapasztalatod?
M: Idtlen s vltozatlan.
K: n csak az lvezet irnti vgyat, s a fjdalomtl
val flelmet ismerem.
M: Ezt gondolod nmagadrl. Hagyd abba. Ha nem
tudsz egyszerre mindenrl leszokni, vedd
szemgyre a megszokott gondolkodsi mdot, s
lsd annak hamissgt. Az elme dolga, hogy
ktsgbe vonja a megszokottat. Amit az elme
alkotott, azt az elmnek kell lerombolnia. Vagy
ismerd fel, hogy az elmn kvl nincsen vgy, s
maradj kvl.
K: szintn szlva, nem hiszem, hogy mindennek
ezt a magyarzatt az elme gyrtotta. Az elme
csupn egy eszkz, miknt a szem is egy eszkz.
Mondhatjuk-e, hogy az szlels az teremts? A
vilgot az ablakon keresztl ltom, nem pedig az
ablakban. Minden, amit mondasz, jl sszell, a
kzs alapok miatt, de nem tudom, hogy az alapok a
valsgban vannak, vagy az elmben csupn. n
csak mentlis kppel rendelkezem rla. Hogy mit
jelent az a te szmodra, azt nem tudom.
M: Amg az elmben tartzkodsz, addig az elmben
fogsz ltni engem.
K: Mennyire alkalmatlanok a szavak a megrtshez.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
M: Without words, what is there to understand? The
need for understanding arises from mis-
understanding. What I say is true, but to you it is
only a theory. How will you come to know that it is
true? Listen, remember, ponder, visualise,
experience. Also apply it in your daily life. Have
patience with me and, above all have patience with
yourself, for you are your only obstacle. The way
leads through yourself beyond yourself. As long as
you believe only the particular to be real, conscious
and happy and reject the non-dual reality as
something imagined, an abstract concept, you will
find me doling out concepts and abstractions. But
once you have touched the real within your own
being, you will find me describing what for you is the
nearest and the dearest.
38. Spiritual Practice is Will Asserted
and Re-asserted
Questioner: The Westerners who occasionally
come to see you are faced with a peculiar difficulty.
The very notion of a liberated man, a realised man,
a self-knower, a God-knower, a man beyond the
world, is unknown to them. All they have in their
Christian culture is the idea of a saint: a pious man,
law-abiding, God-fearing, fellow-loving, prayerful,
sometimes prone to ecstasies and confirmed by a
few miracles. The very idea of a gnani is foreign to
Western culture, something exotic and rather
unbelievable. Even when his existence is accepted,
he is looked at with suspicion, as a case of self-
induced euphoria caused by strange physical
postures and mental attitudes. The very idea of a
new dimension in consciousness seems to them
implausible and improbable.
What will help them is the opportunity of hearing a
gnani relate his own experience of realisation, its
causes and beginnings, its progress and attainments
and its actual practice in daily life. Much of what he
says may remain strange, even meaningless, yet
there will remain a feeling of reality, an atmosphere
of actual experiencing, ineffable, yet very real, a
centre from which an exemplary life can be lived.
Maharaj: The experience may be incommunicable.
Can one communicate an experience?
Q: Yes, if one is an artist. The essence of art is
communication of feeling, of experience.
M: To receive communication, you must be
receptive.
159
M: Szavakon kvl mit kellene rteni? A megrts
irnti igny flrertsbl ered. Amit mondok az igaz,
de neked csak egy teria. Honnan fogod tudni, hogy
ez az igazsg? Hallgass, emlkezz, mrlegelj,
vizualizlj, tapasztalj. Alkalmazd is napi letedben.
Lgy trelmes velem, legfkppen lgy trelmes
nmagaddal, mert te vagy nmagad egyetlen
akadlya. Az t nmagadon keresztl vezet
nmagadon tlra. Amg abban hiszel, hogy csak az
egyn az, aki valdi, tudatos s boldog lehet, s
elutastod a nem-dulis valsgot, mint valamifle
elkpzelst, absztrakt koncepcit, addig gy fogod
ltni, hogy szkmarkan koncepcikat s
absztrakcikat osztogatok. De amint megrintetted a
sajt lteden belli valsgot, gy fogsz ltni
engem, mint aki a szmodra legkzelebb llt s
legkedvesebbet rja le.
38. A spiritulis gyakorlat jra s jra
kijelentsre kerl akarat
Krdez: Azok a nyugatiak, akik nha ltogatba
jnnek hozzd, egy klnleges nehzsggel
szembeslnek. A megszabadult ember, a
megvalsult ember, az ntudatos, Istent ismer, a
vilgot meghaladott ember valdi fogalma
ismeretlen szmukra. Az keresztny kultrjukban
szentek vannak: a vallsos ember trvnytisztel,
Istenfl, emberszeret, imdsgos, nmelykor
elragadtatva arcra borul, s nhny csoda ltal
megerstett. A gnani valdi fogalma idegen a
nyugati kultra szmra, kicsit egzotikus, s
meglehetsen hihetetlen. Mg ha el is fogadjk a
ltezst, gyanakodva nznek r, mint az
ngerjesztett eufria esetre, amelyet klns
pozitrk s mentlis attitdk keltenek. Szmukra a
tudatossg j dimenzijnak valdi fogalma
valszntlennek, s kevss hihetnek ltszik.
Az a lehetsg jelent szmukra segtsget, hogy
meghallgatjk a gnani elbeszlsben sajt
megvalsulsi tapasztalatt, annak okait s
kezdeteit, elrehaladst s megvalsulst, s
annak tnyleges gyakorlatt a napi letben. Lehet,
hogy amit elmond, annak tbbsge klns, st,
rtelmetlen marad, mgis, meg fog maradni a
realitsnak valamilyen rzse, az adott tapasztalat
egy atmoszfrja, amely szavakkal ki nem fejezhet,
mgis nagyon relis, egy kzppont, amelybl egy
plds let lhet.
Maharaj: Lehet, hogy a tapasztalat kzlhetetlen.
Tudja valaki kommuniklni a tapasztalatt?
K: Igen, ha az illet mvsz. A mvszet lnyege az
rzsek, a tapasztalatok kommuniklsa.
M: A kommunikci fogadshoz befogadnak kell
lenned.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: Of course. There must be a receiver. But if the
transmitter does not transmit, of what use is the
receiver?
M: The gnani belongs to all. He gives himself
tirelessly and completely to whoever comes to him.
If he is not a giver, he is not a gnani. Whatever he
has, he shares.
Q: But can he share what he is?
M: You mean, can he make others into gnanis? Yes
and no. No, since gnanis are not made, they realise
themselves as such, when they return to their
source, their real nature. I cannot make you into
what you already are. All I can tell you is the way I
travelled and invite you to take it.
Q: This does not answer my question. I have in mind
the critical and sceptical Westerner who denies the
very possibility of higher states of consciousness.
Recently drugs have made a breach in his disbelief,
without affecting his materialistic outlook. Drugs or
no drugs, the body remains the primary fact and the
mind is secondary. Beyond the mind, they see
nothing. From Buddha onwards the state of self-
realisation was described in negative terms, as 'not
this, not that'. Is it inevitable? Is it not possible to
illustrate it, if not describe. I admit, no verbal
description will do, when the state described is
beyond words. Yet it is also within words. Poetry is
the art of putting into words the inexpressible.
M: There is no lack of religious poets. Turn to them
for what you want. As far as I am concerned, my
teaching is simple: trust me for a while and do what I
tell you. If you persevere, you will find that your trust
was justified.
Q: And what to do with people who are interested,
but cannot trust?
M: If they could stay with me, they would come to
trust me. Once they trust me, they will follow my
advice and discover for themselves.
Q: It is not for the training that I am asking just now,
but for its results. You had both. You are willing to
tell us all about the training, but when it comes to
results, you refuse to share. Either you tell us that
your state is beyond words, or that there is no
difference; that where we see a difference, you see
none. In both cases we are left without any insight
into your state.
M: How can you have insight into my state when you M: Hogyan lthatnl bele az n llapotomba, amikor
160
K: Termszetesen. Kell, hogy legyen egy vev. De
ha az ad nem sugroz, mi haszna van a vevnek?
M: A gnani mindenkihez tartozik. Fradhatatlanul s
hinytalanul adja nmagt brkinek, aki eljn hozz.
Ha nem ad, akkor nem gnani. Brmije van,
megosztja.
K: De meg tudja-e osztani azt, ami az lnyege?
M: gy rted, msokat gnaniv tud-e tenni? Igen, s
nem. Nem, mert a gnanikat nem csinljk, k
felismerik magukat, mint olyant, amikor visszatrnek
a forrsukhoz, az valdi termszetkhz. n nem
tudlak azz tenni, ami mr vagy. Mindssze annyit
tehetek, hogy beszlek neked ltalam bejrt trl, s
arra sztnzlek, hogy te is tedd meg.
K: Ezzel nem kaptam vlaszt a krdsemre. n a
kritikus s szkeptikus nyugatira gondolok, akik a
magasabb tudatossgi llapotoknak mg a
lehetsgt is elutastja. Mostanban a drogok rst
tttek a hitetlensgn, de materialista
szemlletkre ez nincs hatssal. Akr drogokkal,
akr drogok nlkl, a test marad az elsdleges
tnyez, s az elme msodlagos. Az elmn tl
semmit sem ltnak. Buddha ta az n-megvalsts
llapott negatv kifejezsekkel rjk le, gy, mint
nem ez, nem az. Szksges ez? Nincs lehetsges
megvilgtani, ha mr nem lerhat? Elismerem,
hogy a verblis lers nem mkdik olyan esetben,
mikor a lerand llapot szavakon tli. De ht, azrt,
szavakon belli is. A kltk mvszei a
kimondhatatlan szavakba ntsnek.
M: Nincs hiny vallsos kltkben. Fordulj hozzjuk
a kvnsgoddal. Ami engem illet, az n tantsom
egyszer: bzz bennem egy ideig, s csinld, amit
mondok neked. Ha kitart vagy, gy fogod tallni,
hogy hited elnyerte jutalmt.
K: s mi legyen azokkal az emberekkel, akik
rdekldnek, de nem tudnak hinni?
M: Ha el tudnnak jnni hozzm, el tudnnak jutni
odig, hogy higgyenek nekem. Amint hisznek
nekem, kvetik tancsomat, s felfedezik magukat.
K: Ez nem a tantsra vonatkozik, amit pp most
krtem, hanem annak kvetkezmnyeire. Te
mindkettvel rendelkezel. Kszsgesen beszlsz
neknk a trningrl, de amikor az eredmnyekhez
rsz, nem osztod meg velnk. Vagy azt mondod,
hogy a te llapotod tl van a szavakon, vagy azt,
hogy nincs klnbsg; ahol mi klnbsget ltunk,
ott te nem ltsz semmit. Egyik esetben sem nyernk
semmifle betekintst az llapotodba.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
are without insight into your own? When the very
instrument of insight is lacking, is it not important to
find it first? It is like a blind man wanting to learn
painting before he regains his eyesight. You want to
know my state -- but do you know the state of your
wife or servant?
Q: I am asking for some hints only.
M: Well, I gave you a very significant clue -- where
you see differences, I don't. To me it is enough. If
you think it is not enough, I can only repeat; it is
enough. Think it out deeply and you will come to see
what I see. You seem to want instant insight,
forgetting that the instant is always preceded by a
long preparation. The fruit falls suddenly, but the
ripening takes time. After all, when I talk of trusting
me, it is only for a short time, just enough time to
start you moving. The more earnest you are, the
less belief you need, for soon you will find your faith
in me justified. You want me to prove to you that I
am trustworthy. How can I and why should l? After
all, what I am offering you is the operational
approach, so current in Western science. When a
scientist describes an experiment and its results,
usually you accept his statements on trust and
repeat his experiment as he describes it. Once you
get the same or similar results, you need not trust
him any more; you trust your own experience.
Encouraged, you proceed and arrive in the end at
substantially identical results.
Q: The Indian mind was made ready for
metaphysical experiments by culture and nurture. To
the Indian words like 'direct perception of the
Supreme Reality' make sense and bring out
responses from the very depths of his being. They
mean little to a Westerner; even when brought up in
his own variety of Christianity, he does not think
beyond conformity with God's commandments and
Christ's injunctions. First-hand knowledge of reality
is not only beyond ambition, but also beyond
conceiving. Some Indians tell me: 'Hopeless. The
Westerner will not, for he cannot. Tell him nothing
about self-realisation; let him live a useful life and
earn a rebirth in India. Then only will he have a
chance'. Some say: 'Reality is for all equally, but not
all are equally endowed with the capacity to grasp it.
The capacity will come with desire, which will grow
into devotion and ultimately into total self-dedication.
With integrity and earnestness and iron
determination to overcome all obstacles, the
Westerner has the same chance as the Oriental
man. All he needs is the rousing of interest'. To
rouse his interest in self-knowledge he needs to be
161
a te sajtodba val beleltsnak is hjn vagy? Ha a
hinyzik beltst szolgl tkletes eszkz, nem
fontos, hogy elbb megtalljuk azt? Ez annak a vak
embernek az esethez hasonl, aki festeni akar
tanulni, mieltt visszanyern a ltst. Meg akarod
ismerni az llapotomat de ismered-e a felesged,
vagy a szolgd llapott?
K: Csupn tancsot krek.
M: Nos, nyomra vezettelek egy nagyon fontos
esetben amiben te ltsz klnbsget, n pedig
nem. Rszemrl ez elegend. Ha te azt gondolod,
hogy nem elegend, csak ismtelni tudom; ennyi
elegend. Gondold t alaposan, s ltni fogod, amit
n ltok. gy ltszik, te azonnali megltst akarsz,
elfelejtve, hogy az azonnalt mindig egy hossz
elkszts elzi meg. A gymlcs hirtelen pottyan
le, de rse idt vesz ignybe. Tulajdonkppen,
amikor azt mondom, higgy nekem, az is csak rvid
id, pp csak annyi, amennyi az elindulshoz kell.
Minl komolyabb vagy, annl rvidebb ideig van
szksged a hitre, mert a belm vetett hited
hamarosan igazolst nyer. Azt akarod, hogy a
megbzhatsgomat bizonytsam. Hogyan tudnm,
s mirt tennm? Vgl is, amit neked ajnlok, az a
nyugati tudomnyban ma oly idszer
megismtelhetsg megkzeltse. Amikor egy
tuds ismertet egy ksrletet, s annak az
eredmnyt, tbbnyire hit alapon fogadod el az
lltsait, s megismtled a ksrletet, a lersnak
megfelelen. Ha azonos, vagy hasonl eredmnyt
kapsz, nem kell hinned tbb; ettl kezdve a sajt
tapasztalatodnak hiszel. Ha btor vagy, cselekszel,
s a vgn lnyegben azonos eredmnyeket rsz
el.
K: Az indiai elme kultrja s neveltetse folytn
ksz a metafizikai tapasztalatokra. Egy indiai
szmra az olyan szavak, mint a Legfelsbb
Valsg kzvetlen szlelse, rtelemmel brnak, s
lnye legmlyrl fakad reakcit vltanak ki.
Ugyanezek egy nyugatinak nem sokat jelentenek;
mg ha fel is idzi a sajt keresztny vltozatt, az
Isten parancsolataival s Krisztus rendelkezseivel
val sszhangon tl nem gondolkozik. A valsg
els kzbl val ismerete nemcsak ambciit haladja
meg, hanem felfogst is. Azt mondtk nekem
indiaiak: Remnytelen. A nyugati nem fog, mert
nem tud. Ne mondj nekik semmit nmegvalstsrl;
hadd ljen hasznos letet, s rdemelje ki, hogy
jraszlessen Indiban. Csak akkor lesz eslye.
Msok azt mondjk: A valsg mindenki szmra
ugyanaz, de nem mindenki van ugyangy megldva
a kpessggel, hogy megragadja azt. A kpessg a
vggyal fog megjnni, ami belen az odaadsba, s
vgl a totlis nfelajnlsba. Az akadlyokon
becsletessggel, komolysggal s vas
cltudatossggal val fellkerekedsre a nyugati
embernek ugyanolyan eslye van, mint a keletinek.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
convinced about its advantages.
M: You believe it is possible to transmit a personal
experience?
Q: I do not know. You speak of unity, identity of the
seer with the seen. When all is one, communication
should be feasible.
M: To have the direct experience of a country one
must go and live there. Don't ask for the impossible.
A man's spiritual victory no doubt benefits mankind,
but to benefit another individual, a close personal
relation is required. Such relation is not accidental
and not everybody can claim it. On the other hand,
the scientific approach is for all. 'Trust-test-taste'.
What more do you need? Why push the Truth down
unwilling throats? It cannot be done, anyhow.
Without a receiver what can the giver do?
Q: The essence of art is to use the outer form to
convey an inner experience. Of course, one must be
sensitive to the inner, before the outer can be
meaningful. How does one grow in sensitivity?
M: Whichever way you put it, it comes to the same.
Givers there are many; where are the takers?
Q: Can you not share your own sensitivity?
M: Yes, I can, but sharing is a two-way street. Two
are needed in sharing. Who is willing to take what I
am willing to give?
Q: You say we are one. Is this not enough?
M: I am one with you. Are you one with me? If you
are, you will not ask questions. If you are not, if you
do not see what I see, what can I do beyond
showing you the way to improve your vision?
Q: What you cannot give is not your own.
M: I claim nothing as my own. When the 'I' is not,
where is the 'mine'?. Two people look at a tree. One
sees the fruit hidden among the leaves and the other
does not. Otherwise there is no difference between
the two. The one that sees knows that with a little
attention the other will also see, but the question of
sharing does not arise. Believe me, I am not close-
fisted, holding back your share of reality. On the
contrary, I am all yours, eat me and drink me. But
while you repeat verbally: 'give, give', you do nothing
162
Mindssze az rdeklds felbredsre van
szksg. rdekldsnek felbresztshez meg
kell gyzdnie annak elnyeirl.
M: Azt hiszed, van lehetsg tadni szemlyes
tapasztalatot?
K: Nem tudom. Te beszlsz egysgrl, a lt s a
ltott azonossgrl. Ha minden egy, a
kommunikcinak megvalsthatnak kell lennie.
M: Ahhoz, hogy kzvetlen tapasztalattal rendelkezz
egy orszgrl, oda kell menned, s ott kell lned. Ne
krj lehetetlent. Egy ember spiritulis gyzelme
ktsgtelenl elnys az emberisg szmra, de
ahhoz, hogy egy msik egyn szmra elnys
legyen, szoros szemlyes kapcsolat szksges. Egy
ilyen kapcsolat nem vletlen, s nem formlhat jogot
r mindenki. Msfell, a tudomnyos megkzelts
mindenre alkalmas. Hidd el - prbld ki - lvezd az
eredmnyt. Mi tbbre tartasz ignyt? Minek az
Igazsgot vonakod torkokon lenyomni? Nem tudom
megtenni, semmikpp. Vev nlkl mit tud csinlni
az ad?
K: A mvszet lnyege, hogy a kls formt a bels
tapasztalat kzvettsre hasznlja. Termszetesen,
az embernek rzkenynek kell vlnia a belsre,
mieltt a kls jelentsgteljess vlhatna szmra.
Hogyan nvelhet az rzkenysg?
M: Akrmelyik mdszert prblod, ugyanoda vezet.
Sokan vannak az adk; hol vannak a vevk?
K: Nem tudod megosztani a sajt fogkonysgodat?
M: De igen, meg tudom osztani, de a megoszts
ktirny utca. Ketten kellenek a megosztshoz. Ki
ksz venni, amit n ksz vagyok adni?
K: Azt mondod, egyek vagyunk. Ez nem elg?
M: n egy vagyok veled. Te egy vagy velem? Ha
igen, nem lennnek krdseid. Ha nem, ha nem
ltod, amit n, mit tehetnk azon kvl, hogy
megmutatom a mdjt, hogy tkletestsd a
ltsodat?
K: Amit nem tudsz adni, az nem a tulajdonod.
M: Nem formlok tulajdonjogot semmire. Amikor
nincs n, akkor hol az enym? Ketten nznek egy
ft. Egyikk ltja a levelek kztt rejtz gymlcst,
a msik pedig nem. Egybknt semmi klnbsg
nincs kettjk kztt. Aki lt, tudja, hogy egy kis
figyelemmel a msik is ltni fog, de a megoszts
krdse nem merl fel. Higgy nekem, nem vagyok
szkmark, aki eltagadja elled a valsg
megosztst. Ellenkezleg, teljesen a tid vagyok,
egyl engem s igyl engem. De, mikzben
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
to take what is offered. I am showing you a short
and easy way to being able to see what I see, but
you cling to your old habits of thought, feeling and
action and put all the blame on me. I have nothing
which you do not have. Self-knowledge is not a
piece of property to be offered and accepted. It is a
new dimension altogether, where there is nothing to
give or take.
* elfogadhat tulajdonsg. Ez egy teljesen j
Q: Give us at least some insight into the content of
your mind while you live your daily life. To eat, to
drink, to talk, to sleep -- how does it feel at your
end?
M: The common things of life: I experience them just
as you do. The difference lies in what I do not
experience. I do not experience fear or greed, hate
or anger. I ask nothing, refuse nothing, keep
nothing. In these matters I do not compromise.
Maybe this is the outstanding difference between us.
I will not compromise, I am true to myself, while you
are afraid of reality.
Q: From the Westerner's point of view there is
something disturbing in your ways. To sit in a corner
all by oneself and keep on repeating: 'I am God, God
I am', appears to be plain madness. How to
convince a Westerner that such practices lead to
supreme sanity?
M: The man who claims to be God and the man who M: Az, aki ignyt tmaszt r, hogy Isten legyen, s
doubts it -- both are deluded. They talk in their az, aki ktelkedik benne mindketten rszedettek.
dream. lmukban beszlnek.
Q: If all is dreaming, what is waking?
M: How to describe the waking state in dreamland
language? Words do not describe, they are only
symbols.
Q: Again the same excuse that words cannot
convey reality.
M: If you want words, I shall give you some of the
ancient words of power. Repeat any of them
ceaselessly; they can work wonders.
Q: Are you serious? Would you tell a Westerner to
repeat 'Om' or 'Ram' or 'Hare Krishna' ceaselessly,
though he lacks completely the faith and conviction
born of the right cultural and religious background.
Without confidence and fervour, repeating
mechanically the same sounds, will he ever achieve
anything?
M: Why not? It is the urge, the hidden motive that
163
verblisan ismtelgeted, hogy: adj, adj, semmit
nem fogadsz el, amit knlok. n egy rvid s
knny utat mutatok neked, hogy kpess vlj ltni,
amit n ltok, de te belecsimpaszkodsz rgi
gondolkodsod, rzseid s cselekedeteid
megszoksaiba, s minden felelssget rm
hrtasz. Nincs semmim, amivel te nem
rendelkeznl. Az nismeret nem egy felajnlhat s
dimenzi, ahol semmi nem adhat, vagy vehet.
K: Legalbb arrl adj nmi betekintst szmunkra,
hogy mi az elmd tartalma, mikzben mindennapi
letedet led. Enni, inni, beszlni, aludni milyen
rzsek ezek szmodra?
M: Az let kznsges dolgait ppen gy
tapasztalom, mint te. A klnbsg abban van, amit
nem tapasztalok. Nem tapasztalok flelmet vagy
kapzsisgot, gylletet vagy haragot. Nem krdezek
semmit, nem utastok el semmit, nem tartok meg
semmit. Rszemrl e dolgokban nincs
kompromisszum. Lehet, hogy ez a szembetn
klnbsg kztnk. n kompromisszum nlkl, h
vagyok magamhoz, mg te flsz a valsgtl.
K: Nyugati nzpontbl van valami zavar a
mdszereidben. Teljesen egyedl lni egy sarokban,
s folyamatosan ismtelni: n vagyok Isten, Isten
vagyok, tiszta rltsgnek tnik. Hogyan gyzl
meg egy nyugatit, hogy az ilyen gyakorlatok a
legfelsbb sszersghez vezetnek?
K: Ha minden lom, mi a felbreds?
M: Hogyan lehetne az brenlt llapott
lomorszgi nyelven lerni? A szavak nem rnak le
semmit, azok csak szimblumok.
K: Megint ugyanazon rgy, hogy a szavak nem
tudjk kzvetteni a valsgot.
M: Ha szavakat akarsz, adhatok nhny si szt,
amelyeknek ereje van. Ismteld brmelyiket
szakadatlanul; csodkat tudnak vghezvinni.
K: Komolyan beszlsz? Azt mondand egy
nyugatinak, hogy ismtelgesse szntelen az Om,
Ram vagy 'Hare Krishna' szavakat, habr
tkletesen hjn van a megfelel kulturlis s
vallsi httr alapjn szletett hitnek, s
meggyzdsnek? Ugyanazon szavak
meggyzds s odaads nlkli, mechanikus
ismtlse, el fog-e valaha rni brmit is?
M: Mirt ne? Az sztnzs, a rejtett motivci az,
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
matters, not the shape it takes. Whatever he does, if ami szmt, nem a forma amit felvesz. Akrmit
he does it for the sake of finding his own real self, csinl, ha annak rdekben csinlja, hogy
will surely bring him to himself. megtallja sajt valdi njt, bizonyosan elvezeti t
nmaghoz.

Q: No need of faith in the efficacy of the means? K: Nincs szksg az eszkzk eredmnyessgbe
vetett hitre?

M: No need of faith which is but expectation of
results. Here the action only counts. Whatever you
do for the sake of truth, will take you to truth. Only
be earnest and honest. The shape it takes hardly
matters.
M: Semmi szksg olyan hitre, amely csak
eredmnyeket vr el. Itt a cselekedet szmt
egyedl. Brmit teszel az igazsg rdekben, az
igazsg fel visz. Csak lgy komoly, s becsletes.
A forma, amit felvesz, nemigen lnyeges.

Q: Then where is the need of giving expression to K: Akkor mirt szksges kifejezst adni az egyn
one's longing? vgyakozsnak?

M: No need. Doing nothing is as good. Mere
longing, undiluted by thought and action, pure,
concentrated longing, will take you speedily to your
goal. It is the true motive that matters, not the
manner.
M: Nem szksges. Semmit nem tenni ugyanilyen
j. A gondolatoktl s cselekedetektl hgtatlan,
puszta vgyakozs, a tiszta, koncentrlt
vgyakozs, gyorsan clodba fog juttatni. Az igaz
motvum a lnyeges, nem a mdszer.

Q: Unbelievable. How can dull repetition in boredom K: Hihetetlen. Hogyan lehet hatkony egy unalmas,
verging on despair, be effective? a ktsgbeess szlig sodr ismtelgets?

M: The very facts of repetition, of struggling on and M: Valjban az unalommal s ktsgbeesssel,

on and of endurance and perseverance, in spite of
boredom and despair and complete lack of
conviction are really crucial. They are not important
by themselves, but the sincerity behind them is all-
important. There must be a push from within and pull
from without.
valamint a meggyzds teljes hinyval dacol
ismtls, vg nlkli kszkds, kitarts, s
llhatatossg az igazn lnyegesek. Ezek nem
nmagukban fontosak, hanem a mgttk lv
szintesg a ltfontossg. Szksg van egy
bellrl jv nyomsra, s egy kvlrl jv hzsra.

Q: My questions are typical of the West. There
people think in terms of cause and effect, means
and goals. They do not see what causal connection
can there be between a particular word and the
Absolute Reality.
K: Az n krdseim jellemzen nyugatiak. Ott az
emberek ok s okozat kifejezseiben, eszkzkben
s clokban gondolkodnak. Nem ltjk, hogy milyen
oksgi kapcsolat lehet egy klnleges sz, s az
Abszolt Valsg kztt.

M: None whatsoever. But there is a connection
between the word and its meaning, between the
action and its motive. Spiritual practice is will
asserted and re-asserted. Who has not the daring
will not accept the real even when offered.
Unwillingness born out of fear is the only obstacle.
M: Semmilyen sincs. Van viszont kapcsolat a sz s
annak jelentse kztt, a cselekedet s annak
motivcija kztt. A spiritulis gyakorlat jra s jra
kijelentsre kerl akarat. Akinek nincs meg hozz a
btorsga, nem fogja elrni a valsgot, akkor sem,
amikor az felknlkozik. A flelembl szletett
vonakods az egyetlen akadly.

Q: What is there to be afraid of? K: Mitl kellene flni?

M: The unknown. The not-being, not-knowing, not- M: Az ismeretlentl. A nem-lttl, a nem-tudstl, a

doing. The beyond. nem-cselekvstl. A tlnantl.

Q: You mean to say that while you can share the K: Azt akarod mondani, hogy mikzben meg tudod
manner of your achievement, you cannot share the osztani a megvalsts mdjt, nem tudod
fruits? megosztani a gymlcsket?

M: Of course I can share the fruits and I am doing so M: Termszetesen meg tudom osztani a
all the time. But mine is a silent language. Learn to gymlcsket, s ezt teszem egsz id alatt. De az
listen and understand. n nyelvem hangtalan nyelv. Tanulj meg hallgatni,

164
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: I do not see how one can begin without
conviction.
M: Stay with me for some time, or give your mind to
what I say and do and conviction will dawn.
Q: Not everybody has the chance of meeting you.
M: Meet your own self. Be with your own self, listen
to it, obey it, cherish it, keep it in mind ceaselessly.
You need no other guide. As long as your urge for
truth affects your daily life, all is well with you. Live
your life without hurting anybody. Harmlessness is a
most powerful form of Yoga and it will take you
speedily to your goal. This is what I call nisarga
yoga, the Natural yoga. It is the art of living in peace
and harmony, in friendliness and love. The fruit of it
is happiness, uncaused and endless.
Q: Still, all this presupposes some faith.
M: Turn within and you will come to trust yourself. In M: Fordulj befel, s vissza fogod nyerni nmagad
everything else confidence comes with experience. hitt. Minden msban a bizalom a tapasztalattal jn.
Q: When a man tells me that he knows something I
do not know, I have the right to ask: 'what is if that
you know, that I do not know?'
M: And if he tells you that it cannot be conveyed in
words?
Q: Then I watch him closely and try to make out.
M: And this is exactly what I want you to do. Be
interested, give attention, until a current of mutual
understanding is established. Then the sharing will
be easy. As a matter of fact, all realisation is only
sharing. You enter a wider consciousness and share
in it. Unwillingness to enter and to share is the only
hindrance. I never talk of differences, for to me there
are none. You do, so it is up to you to show them to
me. By all means, show me the differences. For this
you will have to understand me, but then you will no
longer talk of differences. Understand one thing well,
and you have arrived. What prevents you from
knowing is not the lack of opportunity, but the lack of
ability to focus in your mind what you want to
understand. If you could but keep in mind what you
do not know, it would reveal to you its secrets. But if
you are shallow and impatient, not earnest enough
to look and wait, you are like a child crying for the
moon.
165
s megrted.
K: Nem rtem, hogyan lehet elkezdeni
meggyzds nlkl.
M: Maradj velem egy darabig, vagy add t az
elmdet annak, amit mondok s csinlok, s
meggyzdsre fogsz bredni.
K: Nem mindenkinek van meg a lehetsge a veled
val tallkozsra.
M: Tallkozz sajt neddel. Lgy egytt sajt
neddel, hallgass r, engedelmeskedj neki,
gyngden szeresd, szntelenl tartsd szben.
Nincs szksged ms vezetre. Amg az igazsg
irnti ellenllhatatlan vgyad thatja mindennapi
letedet, minden rendben van veled. ld anlkl az
letedet, hogy brkit bntanl. Az rtalmatlansg a
legersebb Yoga forma, s gyorsan el fog vinni a
clodhoz. Ez az, amit n nisarga yognak, a
Termszetes yognak nevezek. Ez a bkben s
harmniban, bartsgossgban s szeretetben
ls mvszete. Aminek a gymlcse ok nlkli, s
vgtelen boldogsg.
K: De azrt, mindez elfelttelez valamennyi hitet.
K: Amikor azt mondja valaki, hogy tud valamit, amit
n nem, jogomban ll megkrdezni: mit tudsz te,
amit n nem?
M: s ha azt mondja neked, hogy nem lehet
szavakkal kzlni?
K: Akkor gondosan megfigyelem t, s
megprblom kitallni.
M: s pontosan ezt akarom, hogy tedd. rdekldj,
figyelj, mg a klcsns megrts meg nem valsul.
Ezutn knny lesz a rszesls. Alapjban vve
minden megvalsuls csupn rszesls. Belpsz
egy tgabb tudatossgba, s rszeslsz belle. A
belpstl s a rszeslstl val vonakods az
egyetlen akadly. Sosem beszlek klnbsgekrl,
mert szmomra ilyenek nem lteznek. Neked igen,
gy mdodban ll, hogy megmutasd azokat nekem.
Mindenesetre, mutasd meg a klnbsgeket. Ehhez
meg kell, hogy rts engem, de azutn soha tbb
nem fogsz klnbsgekrl beszlni. Egy dolgot rts
meg jl, s akkor megrkeztl. Ami meggtol a
megismersben, az nem a lehetsg hinya, hanem
annak a kpessgnek a hinya, hogy a megrtend
dologra fkuszld az elmdet. Ha csupn elmdben
tudnd tartani, amit nem tudsz, mr ez feltrn
szmodra annak titkait. De ha felletes, s
trelmetlen vagy, nem elg komoly, hogy figyelj s
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
vrj, akkor olyan vagy, mint a lehetetlent kvn
gyermek.

39. By Itself Nothing has Existence
Questioner: As I listen to you I find that it is useless
to ask you questions. Whatever the question, you
invariably turn it upon itself and bring me to the basic
fact that I am living in an illusion of my own making
and that reality is inexpressible in words. Words
merely add to the confusion and the only wise
course is the silent search within.
39. Semmi nem nmagtl ltezik
Krdez: Tged hallgatva gy ltom, hogy nincs
rtelme krdseket feltenni. Akrmi legyen a krds,
te mindig visszjra fordtod, s ahhoz az
alapttelhez jutunk vissza, hogy a sajt magam
gyrtotta illziban lek, s a valsg nem
kifejezhet szavakkal. A szavak csak a zrzavart
fokozzk, s az egyetlen blcs t a csndes bels
keress.

Maharaj: After all, it is the mind that creates illusion
and it is the mind that gets free of it. Words may
aggravate illusion, words may also help dispel it.
There is nothing wrong in repeating the same truth
again and again until it becomes reality. Mother's
work is not over with the birth of the child. She feeds
it day after day, year after year until it needs her no
longer. People need hearing words, until facts speak
to them louder than words.
Maharaj: Elvgre az elme hozza ltre az illzit, s
az elme szabadtja meg magt tle. A szavak
slyosabb tehetik az illzit, a szavak segthetik az
eloszlatsukat is. Semmi baj nincs ugyanazon
igazsg jra s jra ismtlsvel, mg az valsgg
nem vlik. Az anyk munkja nem r vget a
gyermek megszletsvel. Tpllja t nap nap utn,
v v utn, amg szksges. Az embereknek
mindaddig hallaniuk kell a szavakat, mg a szmukra
elmondott tnyek hangosabbakk nem vlnak, mint
a szavak.

Q: So we are children to be fed on words? K: Teht gyermekek vagyunk, akiket szavakkal kell
etetni?

M: As long as you give importance to words, you are M: Amg jelentsget tulajdontasz a szavaknak,
children. addig gyermek vagy.

Q: All right, then be our mother. K: Rendben, akkor lgy az anym.

M: Where was the child before it was born? Was it M: Hol volt a gyermek, mieltt megszletett? Nem
not with the mother? Because it was already with the volt az anyjval? Azrt szlethetett meg, mert mr
mother it could be born. az anyjval volt.

Q: Surely, the mother did not carry the child when K: Az anya biztosan nem hordta a gyermekt, mikor
she was a child herself. mg maga is gyermek volt.

M: Potentially, she was the mother. Go beyond the M: Potencilis anya volt. Lpj tl az id illzijn.
illusion of time.

Q: Your answer is always the same. A kind of K: Mindig ugyanaz a vlasz. Mint egy ram, amely
clockwork which strikes the same hours again and ugyanazt az rt ti jra s jra.
again.

M: It can not be helped. Just like the one sun is
reflected in a billion dew drops, so is the timeless
endlessly repeated. When l repeat: 'I am, I am', I
merely assert and re-assert an ever-present fact.
You get tired of my words because you do not see
the living truth behind them. Contact it and you will
find the full meaning of words and of silence -- both.
M: Ezen nem lehet segteni. Amint a nap a
millirdnyi harmatcseppben tkrzdik, gy
ismtldik vg nlkl az idtlen. Amikor azt
ismtelgetem, hogy n vagyok, n vagyok, akkor
csupn egy mindig jelenlv tnyt jelentek ki jra s
jra. Unod a szavaimat, mert nem ltod mgttk az
l igazsgot. Teremts vele kapcsolatot, s meg
fogod tallni az rtelmt a szavaknak s a csndnek
egyarnt.

Q: You say that the little girl is already the mother of K: Azt mondod, hogy mr a kislny anyja jvbeni
her future child. Potentially -- yes. Actually -- no. gyermeknek. Potencilisan igen. Tnylegesen

166
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
M: The potential becomes actual by thinking. The
body and its affairs exist in the mind.
Q: And the mind is consciousness in motion and
consciousness is the conditioned (saguna) aspect of
the Self. The unconditioned (nirguna) is another
aspect and beyond lies the abyss of the absolute
(paramartha).
M: Quite right -- you have put it beautifully.
Q: But these are mere words to me. Hearing and
repeating them is not enough, they must be
experienced.
M: Nothing stops you but preoccupation with the
outer which prevents you from focussing the inner. It
cannot be helped, you cannot skip your sadhana.
You have to turn away from the world and go within,
until the inner and the outer merge and you can go
beyond the conditioned, whether inner or outer.
Q: Surely, the unconditioned is merely an idea in the K: A kondicionlatlan bizonyra a kondicionlt elme
conditioned mind. By itself it has no existence. egy ideja csupn. Nem nmagtl ltezik.
M: By itself nothing has existence. Everything needs
its own absence. To be, is to be distinguishable, to
be here and not there, to be now and not then, to be
thus and not otherwise. Like water is shaped by the
container, so is everything determined by conditions
(gunas). As water remains water regardless of the
vessels, as light remains itself regardless of the
colours it brings out, so does the real remain real,
regardless of conditions in which it is reflected. Why
keep the reflection only in the focus of
consciousness? Why not the real itself?
Q: Consciousness itself is a reflection. How can it
hold the real?
M: To know that consciousness and its content are
but reflections, changeful and transient, is the
focussing of the real. The refusal to see the snake in
the rope is the necessary condition for seeing the
rope.
Q: Only necessary, or also sufficient?
M: One must also know that a rope exists and looks
like a snake. Similarly, one must know that the real
exists and is of the nature of witness-consciousness.
Of course it is beyond the witness, but to enter it one
must first realise the state of pure witnessing. The
awareness of conditions brings one to the
167
nem.
M: A potencilisbl gondolkods rvn vlik
tnyleges. A test s annak viszonyai az elmben
lteznek.
K: s az elme mozgsban lv tudatossg, s a
tudatossg a kondicionlt (saguna) aspektusa az
nnek. A kondicionlatlan (nirguna) a msik
aspektus, s az abszolt (paramartha)
szakadknak a tloldaln fekszik.
M: Ez tkletesen gy van szpen fogalmaztl.
K: De ezek puszta szavak szmomra. Hallani s
ismtelni ket nem elg, tapasztalni kell ket.
M: Semmi nem akadlyoz, a klsbe val
belefeledkezsed gtol csupn, hogy a belsre
koncentrlj. Ezt nem lehet segteni, sadhandat nem
ugorhatod t. El kell fordulnod a vilgtl, s befel
kell haladnod, amg a bels s a kls ssze nem
olvad, s tl nem lphetsz a kondicionlton, legyen
az bels, vagy kls.
M: nmagtl semmi nem ltezik. Minden felttelezi
nmaga hinyt. Lenni annyi, mint
megklnbztethetnek lenni, itt lenni s nem ott,
most lenni s nem akkor, gy lenni s nem
mskppen. Mint ahogy a vz alakjt az edny
hatrozza meg, gy determinlnak mindent a
felttelek (gunk). Ahogy a vz vz marad, tekintet
nlkl az ednyre, ahogy a fny nmagval azonos
marad, fggetlenl a szntl, amit kifejez, gy marad
meg a vals valsnak, fggetlenl a felttelektl,
amelyek kztt tkrzsre kerl. Mirt csupn a
tkrkpet tartod a tudatossg fkuszban? Mirt
nem a valsgot magt?
K: A tudatossg nmaga is egy visszatkrzds.
Hogyan hordozn a valsgot?
M: Tudni, hogy a tudatossg s annak tartalma csak
visszatkrzdsek, amelyek vltozkonyak s
mulandk, az a valsgra val fkuszls. Annak a
szksges felttele, hogy lsd a ktelet, annak az
elutastsa, hogy kgynak lsd a ktelet.
K: Csak szksges, vagy elgsges is?
M: Az embernek tudnia is kell, hogy a ktl ltezik,
s kgyhoz hasonlt. Hasonlkppen, az embernek
tudnia kell, hogy a valsg ltezik, s hogy tan-
tudatossg termszet. Termszetesen tl van a
tansgon, de a belelpshez az embernek fel kell
ismernie elszr a tiszta tudatossg llapott. A
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
unconditioned. felttelekrl val tudoms indtja az embert a
kondicionlatlan fel.

Q: Can the unconditioned be experienced? K: Megtapasztalhat a kondicionlatlan?

M: To know the conditioned as conditioned is all that M: A kondicionltat kondicionltnak ismerni, ez

can be said about the unconditioned. Positive terms minden, ami a kondicionlatlannal kapcsolatban
are mere hints and misleading. mondhat. A pozitv kifejezsek utalsok, s
flrevezetsek csupn.

Q: Can we talk of witnessing the real? K: Beszlhetnk-e a valsg tansgrl?

M: How can we? We can talk only of the unreal, the
illusory, the transient, the conditioned. To go
beyond, we must pass through total negation of
everything as having independent existence. All
things depend.
M: Hogy tudnnk beszlni? Beszlni csak a
valtlanrl, az illuzrikusrl, a mulandrl, a
kondicionltrl tudunk. A tllps fel csak a minden
fggetlen ltezssel br dolog totlis tagadsn
keresztl haladhatunk. Minden dolog fgg valamitl.

Q: On what do they depend? K: Mitl fggenek?

M: On consciousness. And consciousness depends M: A tudatossgtl. s a tudatossg a tantl fgg.

on the witness.

Q: And the witness depends on the real? K: s a tan a valsgtl fgg?

M: The witness is the reflection of the real in all its
purity. It depends on the condition of the mind.
Where clarity and detachment predominate, the
witness-consciousness comes into being. It is just
like saying that where the water is clear and quiet,
the image of the moon appears. Or like daylight that
appears as sparkle in the diamond.
M: A tan a valsg visszatkrzdse, annak
minden tisztasgban. Az elme felttelnek
fggvnye. Ahol tisztasg s elfogulatlansg
uralkodik, ott ltrejn a tan-tudatossg. ppen gy,
ahogy a tiszta s nyugodt vz felsznn megjelenik a
hold kpe. Vagy mint a napsugr, amely
csillogsknt jelenik meg a gymnton.

Q: Can there be consciousness without the witness? K: Ltezhet tudatossg a tan nlkl?

M: Without the witness it becomes
unconsciousness, just living. The witness is latent in
every state of consciousness, just like light in every
colour. There can be no knowledge without the
knower and no knower without his witness. Not only
you know, but you know that you know.
M: A tan nlkl tudattalansgg vlik, csak lv.
A tan benne rejlik a tudatossg minden
llapotban, mint ahogy a fny is az sszes
sznben. Nem ltezhet tudoms tud nlkl, s nem
ltezhet tud az tanja nlkl. Nem csak tudsz,
hanem tudod is, hogy tudsz.

Q: If the unconditioned cannot be experienced, for K: Ha a kondicionlatlan nem tapasztalhat, mert

all experience is conditioned, then why talk of it at minden tapasztalat kondicionlt, akkor mirt
all? beszlnk rla egyltaln?

M: How can there be knowledge of the conditioned
without the unconditioned? There must be a source
from which all this flows, a foundation on which all
stands. Self-realisation is primarily the knowledge of
one's conditioning and the awareness that the
infinite variety of conditions depends on our infinite
ability to be conditioned and to give rise to variety.
To the conditioned mind the unconditioned appears
as the totality as well as the absence of everything.
Neither can be directly experienced, but this does
not make it not-existent.
M: A kondicionlatlan nlkl hogyan lehetne
tudomsod a kondicionltrl? Kell lennie egy
forrsnak, ahonnan mindkett ered, egy alapnak,
amelyen mindkett ll. Az n-megvalsts
elssorban azt jelenti, hogy az ember tudja magrl,
hogy kondicionlt, valamint tudomsa van arrl,
hogy a kondcik azrt vgtelenl vltozatosak, mert
vgtelen a kpessgnk a kondicionltsgra, s a
vltozatossg elidzsre. A kondicionlt elme
szmra a kondicionlatlan gy jelenik meg, mint
totalits, ugyanakkor mint mindennek a hinya.
Egyik sem tapasztalhat kzvetlenl, de ez nem
teszi nem ltezv.

168
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: Is it not a feeling? K: Ez nem egy rzs?

M: A feeling too is a state of mind. Just like a healthy
body does not call for attention, so is the
unconditioned free from experience. Take the
experience of death. The ordinary man is afraid to
die, because he is afraid of change. The gnani is not
afraid because his mind is dead already. He does
not think: 'I live'. He knows: 'There is life'. There is no
change in it and no death. Death appears to be a
change in time and space. Where there is neither
time nor space, how can there be death? The gnani
is already dead to name and shape. How can their
loss affect him? The man in the train travels from
place to place, but the man off the train goes
nowhere, for he is not bound for a destination. He
has nowhere to go, nothing to do, nothing to
become. Those who make plans will be born to carry
them out. Those who make no plans need not be
born.
M: Az rzs is elmellapot. Ahogy az egszsges
test sem hvja fel magra a figyelmet, gy a
kondicionlatlan is mentes a tapasztalattl. Vegyk
a hall tapasztalatt. Az tlagember fl a halltl,
mert fl a vltozstl. A gnani nem fl, mert az
elmje mr halott. Nem gondolja azt, hogy n lek.
Tudja, hogy let van benne. Nincs benne vltozs,
s nincs benne hall. A hall mint id- s trbeli
vltozs jelenik meg. Ahol nincs sem id, sem tr,
ott hogyan lehetne hall? A gnani mr halott a nevet
s formt illeten. Hogyan rinthetn t ezek
elvesztse? Aki vonaton l, az vrosrl vrosra
utazik, de aki leszllt a vonatrl, az sehov sem
megy, mert nem ktdik clhoz. Nem kell mennie
sehov, nem kell tennie semmit, nem kell vlnia
semmiv. Azok, akik terveket ksztenek, meg
fognak szletni, hogy azokat vgrehajtsk. Akiknek
nincs terveik, azoknak nem kell megszletnik.

Q: What is the purpose of pain and pleasure? K: Mi a clja a fjdalomnak s az lvezetnek?

M: Do they exist by themselves, or only in the mind? M: nll ltezk ezek, vagy csak az elmben
lteznek?

Q: Still, they exist. Never mind the mind. K: Mindazonltal lteznek. Hagyjuk az elmt.

M: Pain and pleasure are merely symptoms, the M: A fjdalom s az lvezet krtnetek csupn,
results of wrong knowledge and wrong feeling. A rossz tuds s rossz rzs eredmnyei. Egy
result cannot have a purpose of its own. eredmny nem lehet nmaga clja.

Q: In God's economy everything must have a K: Isten gazdasgban mindennek kell legyen clja.
purpose.

M: Do you know God that you talk of him so freely? M: Ismered Istent, hogy ilyen fesztelenl beszlsz
What is God to you? A sound, a word on paper, an rla? Mit jelent szmodra Isten? Egy hangot, egy
idea in the mind? paprra vetett szt, egy idet az elmben?

Q: By his power I am born and kept alive. K: Az hatalma ltal szlettem, s vagyok letben.

M: And suffer, and die. Are you glad? M: s szenvedsz, s meghalsz. Boldog vagy?

Q: It may be my own fault that I suffer and die. I was K: Lehet, hogy az n hibm, hogy szenvedek s
created unto life eternal. meghalok. rk letre lettem teremtve.

M: Why eternal in the future and not in the past. M: A jv fel mirt rk, s a mlt fel mirt nem
What has a beginning must have an end. Only the az? Aminek kezdete van, vge is kell, hogy legyen.
beginningless is endless. Egyedl a kezdet nlkli vgtelen.

Q: God may be a mere concept, a working theory. A K: Lehet, hogy Isten egy koncepci csupn, egy
very useful concept all the same. munka teria. mbr egy nagyon hasznos
koncepci.

M: For this it must be free of inner contradictions,
which is not the case. Why not work on the theory
that you are your own creation and creator. At least
there will be no external God to battle with.
M: Ehhez mentesnek kellene lennie a bels
ellentmondsoktl, de nem ez a helyzet. Mirt nem
az a munka terid, hogy te vagy sajt
teremtmnyed, s teremtd? Legalbb nem lenne
egy kls Isten, akivel harcolni kell.

169
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: This world is so rich and complex -- how could I
create it?
M: Do you know yourself enough to know what you
can do and what you cannot? You do not know your
own powers. You never investigated. Begin with
yourself now.
Q: Everybody believes in God.
M: To me you are your own God. But if you think
otherwise, think to the end. If there be God, then all
is God's and all is for the best. Welcome all that
comes with a glad and thankful heart. And love all
creatures. This too will take you to your Self.
40. Only the Self is Real
Maharaj: The world is but a show, glittering and
empty. It is, and yet is not. It is there as long as I
want to see it and take part in it. When I cease
caring, it dissolves. It has no cause and serves no
purpose. It just happens when we are absent-
minded. It appears exactly as it looks, but there is no
depth in it, nor meaning. Only the onlooker is real.
Call him Self or Atma. To the Self the world is but a
colourful show, which he enjoys as long as it lasts
and forgets when it is over. Whatever happens on
the stage makes him shudder in terror or roll with
laughter, yet all the time he is aware that it is but a
show. Without desire or fear he enjoys it, as it
happens.
Questioner: The person immersed in the world has
a life of many flavours. He weeps, he laughs, loves
and hates, desires and fears, suffers and rejoices.
The desireless and fearless gnani, what life has he?
Is he not left high and dry in his aloofness?
M: His state is not so desolate. It tastes of the pure,
uncaused, undiluted bliss. He is happy and fully
aware that happiness is his very nature and that he
need not do anything, nor strive for anything to
secure it. It follows him, more real than the body,
nearer than the mind itself. You imagine that without
cause there can be no happiness. To me
dependence on anything for happiness is utter
misery. Pleasure and pain have causes, while my
state is my own, totally uncaused, independent,
unassailable.
Q: Like a play on the stage?
M: The play was written, planned and rehearsed.
The world just spouts into being out of nothing and
170
K: Ez a vilg annyira gazdag s bonyolult hogyan
tudtam volna n megteremteni?
M: Ismered magad elgg, hogy mit tudsz, s mit
nem tudsz? Nem ismered a sajt hatalmadat.
Sohasem vizsgldtl. Kezdd most magaddal.
K: Mindenki hisz Istenben.
M: Szmomra te vagy sajt Istened. De ha te
mskpp gondolod, gondold vgig. Ha van Isten,
akkor minden Isten, s minden a legjobban van.
Mindent, ami jn, dvzlj rmmel s hls szvvel.
s szeress minden teremtmnyt. Ez szintn
nedhez fog vezetni tged.
40. Csak az n valsgos
Maharaj: A vilg csupn egy show, csillog s res.
Van, s mg sincs. Addig van, amg ltni akarom, s
rszt akarok venni benne. Amikor beszntetem a
vele val trdst, szertefoszlik. Nincs semmilyen
oka, s nem szolgl semmilyen clt. Csak
megtrtnik, amikor figyelmetlenek vagyunk.
Pontosan olyannak mutatkozik, amilyennek kinz,
de nincs sem mlysge, sem jelentse. Csak a
szemll valdi. Nevezzk t gy, hogy n, vagy
Atma. Az n szmra a vilg csak egy sznpomps
show, amit amg tart, addig lvezi, s amikor vget
r, elfelejti. Akrmi trtnik a sznpadon, ami miatt
reszkets fogja el a rmlettl, vagy gurul a
nevetstl, mgis egsz id alatt tudatban van,
hogy az csak egy show. Vgy s flelem nlkl
lvezi azt, ahogyan megtrtnik.
Krdez: A vilgba belemerlt szemlynek sokszn
lete van. Sr, nevet, szeret s gyll, vgyakozik s
fl, szenved, s rmet rez. A vgy- s flelem
nlkli gnaninak milyen lete van? Nem
cserbenhagyottsg az kzmbssge?
M: Nem olyan magnyos az llapota. A tiszta,
nmagtl val, koncentrlt boldogsgot lvezi.
Boldog, s tkletesen tudatban van, hogy a
boldogsg az valdi termszete, s hogy nincs
szksge semmire, s nem is trekszik semminek a
megszerzsre. A boldogsg kveti t, sokkal
valsgosabb, mint a test, kzelebb van, mint az
elme maga. A te elkpzelsed szerint ok nlkl nem
lehetsges boldogsg. Szmomra a boldogsg
brmitl val fggv ttele a legteljesebb
szenveds. Az lvezetnek s a fjdalomnak oka
van, mg az n sajt llapotom teljesen ok nlkli,
fggetlen, megtmadhatatlan.
K: Mint egy szndarab?
M: A darabot rtk, rendeztk s prbltk. A vilg
csak berad a ltbe a semmibl, s a semmibe tr
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
returns to nothing.
Q: Is there no creator? Was not the world in the
mind of Brahma, before it was created?
M: As long as you are outside my state, you will
have Creators, Preservers and Destroyers, but once
with me you will know the Self only and see yourself
in all.
Q: You function nevertheless.
M: When you are giddy, you see the world running
circles round you. Obsessed with the idea of means
and end, of work and purpose, you see me
apparently functioning. In reality I only look.
Whatever is done, is done on the stage. Joy and
sorrow life and death, they all are real to the man in
bondage; to me they are all in the show, as unreal
as the show itself.
I may perceive the world just like you, but you
believe to be in it, while I see it as an iridescent drop de te benne lvnek hiszed magad, n ellenben gy
in the vast expanse of consciousness.
Q: We are all getting old. Old age is not pleasant --
all aches and pains, weakness and the approaching
end. How does a gnani feel as an old man? How
does his inner self look at his own senility?
M: As he gets older he grows more and more happy
and peaceful. After all, he is going home. Like a
traveller nearing his destination and collecting his
luggage, he leaves the train without regret.
Q: Surely there is a contradiction. We are told the
gnani is beyond all change. His happiness neither
grows nor wanes. How can he grow happier
because older, and that in spite of physical
weakness and so on?
M: There is no contradiction. The reel of destiny is
coming to its end -- the mind is happy. The mist of
bodily existence is lifting -- the burden of the body is
growing less from day to day.
Q: Let us say, the gnani is ill. He has caught some
flu and every joint aches and burns. What is his
state of mind?
M: Every sensation is contemplated in perfect
equanimity. There is no desire for it, nor refusal. It is
as it is and then he looks at it with a smile of
affectionate detachment.
Q: He may be detached from his own suffering, but
171
vissza.
K: Nincs teremt? Nem volt benne a vilg Brahma
elmjben, mieltt megteremtette azt?
M: Mindaddig, amg nem vagy az n llapotomban,
lesznek Teremtid, Megrzid s Puszttid, de
amint elrsz hozzm, csak az nt fogod ismerni, s
mindenben magadat fogod ltni.
K: Mgiscsak funkcionlsz.
M: Amikor szdlsz, gy ltod, hogy forog krltted
a vilg. Szndkok s megvalstsok, cselekedetek
s clok idejtl megszllott vagy, ezrt
ltszlagosan funkcionlnak ltsz engem.
Valjban pedig, csak szemlldk. Brmi trtnik,
a sznpadon trtnik. rm, szomorsg, let s
hall, ezek mind valsgosak a ktttsgben lv
ember szmra; az n szmomra mindezek a show
rszei, ppgy valtlanok, mint a maga show.
Ugyangy szlelni vagyok kpes a vilgot, mint te,
ltom, mint egy szivrvnysznekben jtsz cseppet
a hatrtalan kiterjeds tudatossgban.
K: Mindannyian megregsznk. Az regkor nem
kellemes mindenfle sajgsok s fjdalmak,
gyengesg, s a kzelg vg. Hogyan rzi magt
egy gnani reg emberknt? Hogyan tekint bels
nje sajt szenilitsra?
M: Ahogy regszik, gy lesz egyre jobban s jobban
boldog s bks. Elvgre haza kszl. Mint egy
utaz, aki cljhoz kzeledve sszeszedi a
csomagokat, sajnlat nlkl elhagyja a vonatot.
K: Itt valamilyen ellentmonds van, bizonyra. Azt
hallottuk, hogy a gnani tl van minden vltozson.
Boldogsga nem nvekszik, s nem cskken.
Hogyan nhetne a boldogsga azrt mert regszik,
dacra testi gyengesgnek, stb.?
M: Nincs semmifle ellentmonds. A sors
gombolyagja a vghez kzeledik az elme boldog.
A testi ltezs kde oszlban van a test terhe
naprl napra cskken.
K: Tegyk fel, hogy a gnani megbetegszik. Elkapott
valamilyen influenzt, sszes zlete fj, s lngol.
Mi most az elmjnek az llapota?
M: Minden benyomst tkletes lelki nyugalommal
szemll. Nincs benne irnta sem vgy, sem
elutasts. Van, ahogy van, s a szeret
elklnltsg mosolyval szemlli.
K: Lehet, hogy elklnlt a sajt szenvedstl, de
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
still it is there.
M: It is there, but it does not matter. Whatever state I M: Ott van, de nem szmt. Brmilyen llapotban
am in, I see it as a state of mind to be accepted as it vagyok, azt gy tekintem, mint az elme egy
is.
Q: Pain is pain. You experience it all the same.
M: He who experiences the body, experiences its
pains and pleasures. I am neither the body, nor the
experiencer of the body.
Q: Let us say you are twenty-five years old. Your
marriage is arranged and performed, and the
household duties crowd upon you. How would you
feel?
M: Just as I feel now. You keep on insisting that my
inner state is moulded by outer events. It is just not
so. Whatever happens, I remain. At the root of my
being is pure awareness, a speck of intense light.
This speck, by its very nature, radiates and creates
pictures in space and events in time -- effortlessly
and spontaneously. As long as it is merely aware
there are no problems. But when the discriminative
mind comes into being and creates distinctions,
pleasure and pain arise. During sleep the mind is in
abeyance and so are pain and pleasure. The
process of creation continues, but no notice is taken.
The mind is a form of consciousness, and
consciousness is an aspect of life. Life creates
everything but the Supreme is beyond all.
Q: The Supreme is the master and consciousness -- K: A Legfelsbb a mester, s a tudatossg a
his servant. szolgja.
M: The master is in consciousness, not beyond it. In
terms of consciousness the Supreme is both
creation and dissolution, concretion and abstraction,
the focal and the universal. It is also neither. Words
do not reach there, nor mind.
Q: The gnani seems to be a very lonely being, all by
himself.
M: He is alone, but he is all. He is not even a being.
He is the beingness of all beings. Not even that. No
words apply. He is what he is, the ground from
which all grows.
Q: Are you not afraid to die?
M: I shall tell you how my Guru's Guru died. After
announcing that his end was nearing, he stopped
eating, without changing the routine of his daily life.
172
azrt az ott van.
llapott, amit gy fogadok el, ahogy van.
K: A fjdalom az fjdalom. Mgiscsak tled.
M: Aki tapasztalja a testet, tapasztalja annak
fjdalmt s lvezett. n sem a test, sem a test
tapasztalja nem vagyok.
K: Tegyk fel, hogy huszont ves vagy.
Hzassgod rendezett s mkd, s hzastrsi
ktelessgeidben akadlyoztatva vagy. Hogy
reznd magad?
M: pp ahogy most rzem magam. Te tovbbra is
azt bizonygatod, hogy a bels llapotomat kls
esemnyek formljk. Ez ppen, hogy nem gy van.
Brmi trtnik, n ugyanaz maradok. A ltem a
tiszta tudatossgbl gykerezik, az intenzv fny
szikrja. Ez a szikra, valdi termszetnl fogva,
kpeket hoz ltre s sugroz a trben, s
esemnyeket az idben erfeszts nlkl, s
spontn. Amg az tudatossg csupn, addig
nincsenek problmk. De amikor megszletik a
megklnbztet elme, s klnbsgeket hoz ltre,
lvezet s fjdalom keletkezik. Alvskor az elme
hatlyon kvl van, gy a fjdalom s az lvezet is. A
teremts folyamata folytatdik, de nem kerl
tudomsul vtelre. Az elme a tudatossgnak egy
formja, s a tudatossg az letnek egy aspektusa.
Az let hoz ltre mindent, de a Legfelsbb mindenek
felett ll.
M: A mester a tudatossgban van, nem a felett. A
tudatossg kifejezsmdjval a Legfelsbb azonos
mind a teremtssel, mind a felbomlssal, mind a
konkretzilssal, mind az absztrakcival, mind a
foklissal, mind az univerzlissal. Ugyanakkor
egyikkel sem. A szavak nem rnek el odig, sem az
elme.
K: A gnani egy nagyon magnyos lnynek tnik,
mint aki teljesen egyedl van.
M: Egyedl van, de minden. Mg csak nem is
lny. minden lny ltezse. De mg az sem. A
szavak itt alkalmatlanok. az ami, a talaj, amibl
minden kin.
K: Nem flsz a halltl?
M: Elmeslem, hogyan halt meg a Gurum Guruja. A
bejelents utn, hogy lett hamarosan befejezi,
abbahagyta az evst, anlkl, hogy napi letnek
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
On the eleventh day, at prayer time he was singing
and clapping vigorously and suddenly died. Just like
that, between two movements, like a blown out
candle. Everybody dies as he lives. I am not afraid
of death, because I am not afraid of life. I live a
happy life and shall die a happy death. Misery is to
be born, not to die. All depends how you look at it.
Q: There can be no evidence of your state. All I
know about it is what you say. All I see is a very
interesting old man.
M: You are the interesting old man, not me. I was
never born. How can I grow old? What I appear to
be to you exists only in your mind. I am not
concerned with it.
Q: Even as a dream you are a most unusual dream.
M: I am a dream that can wake you up. You will
have the proof of it in your very waking up.
Q: Imagine, news reach you that I have died. K: Kpzeld el, hogy hrt kapsz a hallomrl. Valaki
Somebody tells you: 'You know so-and-so? He died'. kzli veled: ismered ezt-s-ezt? Meghalt. Mi lenne
What would be your reaction? a reakcid?
M: I would be very happy to have you back home.
Really glad to see you out of this foolishness.
Q: Which foolishness?
M: Of thinking that you were born and will die, that
you are a body displaying a mind and all such
nonsense. In my world nobody is born and nobody
dies. Some people go on a journey and come back,
some never leave. What difference does it make
since they travel in dream lands, each wrapped up in
his own dream. Only the waking up is important. It is
enough to know the 'I am' as reality and also love.
Q: My approach is not so absolute, hence my
question. Throughout the West people are in search
of something real. They turn to science, which tells
them a lot about matter, a little about the mind and
nothing about the nature and purpose of
consciousness. To them reality is objective, outside
the observable and describable, directly or by
inference; about the subjective aspect of reality they
know nothing. It is extremely important to let them
know that there is reality and it is to be found in the
freedom of consciousness from matter and its
limitations and distortions. Most of the people in the
world just do not know that there is reality which can
be found and experienced in consciousness. It
seems very important that they should hear the good
news from somebody who has actually experienced.
Such witnesses have always existed and their
173
gyakorlatn vltoztatott volna. A tizenegyedik napon,
az imdkozs sorn erteljesen nekelt s tapsolt,
majd hirtelen meghalt. Csak gy, kt mozdulat
kztt, mint amikor elfjnak egy gyertyt. Mindenki
gy hal meg, ahogy l. Nem flek a halltl, mert
nem flek az lettl. Boldog letet lek, s boldogan
fogok meghalni. A megszlets a szenveds, nem a
hall. Minden attl fgg, hogyan tekintesz r.
K: Semmi lthat jele az llapotodnak. Csak annyit
tudok rla, amennyit elmondasz. Csupn egy
nagyon rdekes reg embert ltok.
M: Te vagy az rdekes regember, nem n. n
sohasem szlettem. Hogyan regedhetnk meg?
Az, aminek szmodra ltszom, csak a te elmdben
ltezik. Nekem nincs kzm hozz.
K: Mg lomnak is nagyon szokatlan lom vagy.
M: n egy olyan lom vagyok, amely felbreszthet
tged. Ltni fogod a bizonytkt, mikor felbredsz.
M: Nagyon boldog lennk, hogy hazarkeztl.
Boldog vagyok, hogy ltlak ez utn az ostobasg
utn.
K: Milyen ostobasg utn?
M: Hogy azt gondolod, hogy szlettl, s meg fogsz
halni, hogy te egy elmt megjelent test vagy, s
hasonl ostobasgok. Az n vilgomban senki nem
szletik s senki nem hal meg. Vannak, akik tnak
indulnak, s visszajnnek, vannak, akik soha nem
mennek el. Ami a klnbsg, hogy lom orszgokba
utaznak, mindegyik a sajt lmba merl. Csak a
felbreds fontos. Elg csak az n vagyok-ot
realitsnak tudni, s a szeretetet.
K: Az n llspontom nem ennyire abszolt, ezrt
volt a krdsem. Nyugat szerte az emberek
llandan valami valsgosat keresnek. A
tudomnyhoz fordulnak, amely sokat mond nekik az
anyagrl, keveset az elmrl, s semmit sem a
tudatossg termszetrl, s cljrl. Szmukra a
valsg objektv, a kzvetlen, vagy kvetkeztets
tjn trtn megfigyelhetsgen, s lerhatsgon
kvl ll; a valsg szubjektv aspektusrl semmit
sem tudnak. Rendkvl fontos lenne a tudomsukra
hozni, hogy a valsg a tudatossgnak az anyagtl
s annak korltaitl, torzulsaitl val
fggetlensgben keresend. A legtbb ember a
vilgon alig tud arrl, hogy a valsg a
tudatossgban tallhat, s ott tapasztalhat.
Nagyon fontosnak tnik, hogy halljk a j hrt
valakitl, aki tnylegesen tapasztalattal br. Ilyen
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
testimony is precious.
M: Of course. The gospel of self-realisation, once
heard, will never be forgotten. Like a seed left in the
ground, it will wait for the right season and sprout
and grow into a mighty tree.
41. Develop the Witness Attitude
Questioner: What is the daily and hourly state of
mind of a realised man? How does he see, hear,
eat, drink, wake and sleep, work and rest? What
proof is there of his state as different from ours?
Apart from the verbal testimony of the so-called
realised people, is there no way of verifying their
state objectively. Are there not some observable
differences in their physiological and nervous
responses, in their metabolism, or brain waves, or in
their psychosomatic structure?
Maharaj: You may find differences, or you may not.
All depends on your capacity of observation. The
objective differences are however, the least
important. What matters is their outlook, their
attitude, which is that of total detachment, aloofness,
standing apart.
Q: Does not a gnani feel sorrow when his child dies,
does he not suffer?
M: He suffers with those who suffer. The event itself
is of little importance, but he is full of compassion for
the suffering being, whether alive or dead, in the
body or out of it. After all, love and compassion are
his very nature. He is one with all that lives and love
is that oneness in action.
Q: People are very much afraid of death.
M: The gnani is afraid of nothing. But he pities the
man who is afraid. After all to be born, to live and to
die is natural. To be afraid is not. To the event, of
course, attention is given.
Q: Imagine you are ill -- high fever, aches, shivers.
The doctor tells you the condition is serious, there
are only a few days to live. What would be your first
reaction?
M: No reaction. As it is natural for the incense stick
to burn out, so it is natural for the body to die.
Really, it is a matter of very little importance. What
matters is that I am neither the body nor the mind. I
am.
Q: Your family will be desperate, of course. What
174
tank mindig lteztek, s az tansguk rendkvl
rtkes.
M: Termszetesen. Ha egyszer is hallottad az
nmegvalsts evangliumt, soha nem felejted el.
Miknt a fldbe kerlt mag, vrni fog a j vszakra,
kicsrzik, s hatalmas fv nvekszik.
41. A tansg attitd kifejlesztse
Krdez: Mi a minden napi s -rbani llapota a
megvalsult embernek? Hogyan lt, hall, eszik, iszik,
bred s alszik, dolgozik s pihen? Mi a bizonytk,
hogy az llapota ms, mint a mienk? Az
gynevezett megvalsult emberek verblis
tansgtteln kvl nincs mdszer az llapotuk
objektv mdon val ellenrzsre. Nincs semmilyen
szlelhet klnbsg fiziolgiai s idegrendszeri
reakciikban, anyagcserjkben, vagy
pszichoszomatikus struktrjukban?
Maharaj: Lehet, hogy tallsz klnbsgeket, lehet,
hogy nem. Minden a megfigyelkpessgedtl fgg.
Az objektv klnbsgek azonban kevsb fontosak.
Ami szmt, az a szemlletmdjuk, attitdjk, amely
a totlis elfogulatlansg, kzmbssg, tvol lls.
K: Nem rez egy gnani szomorsgot, amikor a
gyermeke meghal, nem szenved ilyenkor?
M: Egytt szenved a szenvedkkel. Az esemny
maga kis jelentsggel br, de teljes rszvtet rez a
szenved lny irnt, legyen az l, vagy holt,
testben lv, vagy azon kvli. Tulajdonkppen a
szeretet s egyttrzs neki valsgos termszete.
Mindennel egy, ami l, s a szeretet azonos mdon
benne van minden cselekedetben.
K: Az emberek nagyon flnek a halltl.
M: A gnani nem fl semmitl. De sznja azokat, akik
flnek. Hiszen szletni, lni s meghalni
termszetes dolgok. Flni nem az. Az esemnyekre,
termszetesen, oda kell figyelni.
K: Kpzeld el, hogy beteg vagy magas lz,
fjdalmak, reszkets. Az orvos szerint az llapotod
slyos, mr csak nhny napod van. Mi lenne az
els reakcid?
M: Nem lenne semmifle reakcim. Ahogy egy
fstl plcika esetben termszetes, hogy elg,
gy egy test esetn is termszetes, hogy meghal.
Valjban, ez a dolog nagyon kevss fontos. Ami
szmt az az, hogy sem a test, sem az elme nem n
vagyok. n vagyok.
K: A csaldod ktsgbeesett lenne, persze. Mit
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
would you tell them?
M: The usual stuff: fear not, life goes on, God will
protect you, we shall be soon together again and so
on. But to me the entire commotion is meaningless,
for I am not the entity that imagines itself alive or
dead. I am neither born nor can I die. I have nothing
to remember or to forget.
Q: What about the prayers for the dead?
M: By all means pray for the dead. It pleases them
very much. They are flattered. The gnani does not
need your prayers. He is himself the answer to your
prayers.
Q: How does the gnani fare after death?
M: The gnani is dead already. Do you expect him to
die again?
Q: Surely, the dissolution of the body is an important K: Bizonyra, a test megsemmislse mg egy
event even to a gnani. gnaninak is fontos esemny.
M: There are no important events for a gnani, except
when somebody reaches the highest goal. Then
only his heart rejoices. All else is of no concern. The
entire universe is his body, all life is his life. As in a
city of lights, when one bulb burns out, it does not
affect the network, so the death of a body does not
affect the whole.
Q: The particular may not matter to the whole, but it
does matter to the particular. The whole is an
abstraction, the particular, the concrete, is real.
M: That is what you say. To me it may be the other
way -- the whole is real, the part comes and goes.
The particular is born and reborn, changing name
and shape, the gnani is the Changeless Reality,
which makes the changeful possible. But he cannot
give you the conviction. It must come with your own
experience. With me all is one, all is equal.
Q: Are sin and virtue one and the same?
M: These are all man-made values. What are they to
me? What ends in happiness is virtue, what ends in
sorrow is sin. Both are states of mind. Mine is not a
State of mind.
Q: We are like the blind people at a loss to
understand what does it mean to see.
M: You can put it as you like.
175
mondanl nekik?
M: A szoksos szveget: nem kell flni, az let
megy tovbb, Isten megoltalmaz tged, hamarosan
jra egytt lesznk, stb. De szmomra ez az egsz
hh rtelmetlen, mert n nem az az entits vagyok,
amely lnek kpzeli magt, vagy halottnak. n nem
szlettem, s nem meghalni sem tudok. Nincs
emlkezni, vagy felejteni valm.
K: Mi a helyzet a haldoklrt mondott imdsggal?
M: Imdkozz a halottrt, termszetesen. Nagy
rmet okozol nekik vele. Hzelg szmukra. A
gnani nem ignyli az imidat. maga a vlasz az
imidra.
K: Mi trtnik a gnanival a halla utn?
M: A gnani mr halott. Azt vrod, hogy ismt
meghaljon?
M: Egy gnani szmra nincsenek fontos
esemnyek, kivve, mikor elri valaki a
legmagasztosabb clt. Akkor csak a szve
rvendezik. Minden ms tekintetben rintetlen
marad. Az egsz univerzum az teste, minden let
az lete. Ahogy a vrosi vilgts esetn, ha az
egyik g kig, az nincs hatssal az egsz
hlzatra, ugyangy egy testnek a halla sincs
hatssal az egszre.
K: Az egyn nem szmt az egsznek, de az szmt
az egynnek. Az egsz az egy absztrakci, az
egyn, a konkrt pedig valsg.
M: Ezt te mondod. Szmomra ez csak a msik
mdon lehetsges az egsz a valsg, a rsz
megjelenik, s eltnik. Az egyn szletik s
jraszletik, nevet s formt vltoztatva, a gnani a
vltoz lehetsget teremt Vltozatlan Valsg. De
nem adhatja meg szmodra a meggyzdst.
Annak a sajt tapasztalsod alapjn kell jnnie.
Velem minden egy, minden azonos.
K: Bn s erny ugyanazok?
M: Ezek mind ember alkotta rtkek. Mik jelentenek
szmomra? Aminek boldogsg a vge az erny,
aminek szomorsg az bn. Mindkett az elme
llapota. Nekem nincs elme llapotom.
K: Olyanok vagyunk, mint a vakok, akik kptelenek
megrteni, hogy mit jelent ltni.
M: Fogalmazhatsz, ahogy akarsz.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: Is the practice of silence as a sadhana effective?
M: Anything you do for the sake of enlightenment
takes you nearer. Anything you do without
remembering enlightenment puts you off. But why
complicate? Just know that you are above and
beyond all things and thoughts. What you want to
be, you are it already. Just keep it in mind.
Q: I hear you saying it, but I cannot believe.
M: I was in the same position myself. But I trusted
my Guru and he proved right. Trust me, if you can.
Keep in mind what I tell you: desire nothing, for you
lack nothing. The very seeking prevents you from
finding.
Q: You seem to be so very indifferent to everything.
M: I am not indifferent, I am impartial. I give no
preference to the me and the mine. A basket of
earth and a basket of jewels are both unwanted. Life
and death are all the same to me.
Q: Impartiality makes you indifferent.
M: On the contrary, compassion and love are my
very core. Void of all predilections, I am free to love.
Q: Buddha said that the idea of enlightenment is
extremely important. Most people go through their
lives not even knowing that there is such a thing as
enlightenment, leave alone the striving for it. Once
they have heard of it, a seed was sown which
cannot die. Therefore, he would send his bhikhus to
preach ceaselessly for eight months every year.
M: 'One can give food, clothes, shelter, knowledge,
affection, but the highest gift is the gospel of
enlightenment', my Guru used to say. You are right,
enlightenment is the highest good. Once you have it,
nobody can take it away from you.
Q: If you would talk like this in the West, people
would take you for mad.
M: Of course, they would. To the ignorant all that
they can not understand is madness. What of it? Let
them be as they are. I am as I am, for no merit of
mine and they are as they are, for no fault of theirs.
The Supreme Reality manifests itself in innumerable
ways. Infinite in number are its names and shapes.
All arise, all merge in the same ocean, the source of
all is one. Looking for causes and results is but the
176
K: A csend gyakorlata hatkony sadhana?
M: Amit a megvilgosods rdekben teszel, legyen
az brmi, kzelebb visz. Amit a megvilgosods
emlkezete nlkl teszel, legyen az brmi, ksleltet.
De mirt kompliklod? Csak tudd, hogy fltte s tl
vagy minden dolognak s gondolatnak. Ami lenni
akarsz, mr az vagy. Csak tartsd szben.
K: Hallom, amit mondasz, de nem tudom elhinni.
M: Ugyanebben a helyzetben voltam n magam is.
De megbztam Gurumban, s bebizonytotta az
igazsgot. Bzz bennem, ha tudsz. Tartsd szben,
amit mondok neked: ne vgyj semmire, mert nem
szenvedsz hinyt semmiben. Valjban a keress
akadlyoz abban, hogy tallj.
K: Nagyon kzmbsnek ltszol mindennel
szemben.
M: Nem kzmbs, hanem prtatlan vagyok. Nem
rszestem elnyben az nt s az enymet. Egy
kosr fld s egy kosr gymnt, egyarnt
nemkvnatosak. Az let s a hall azonosak
szmomra.
K: A prtatlansg kzmbss tesz.
M: Ellenkezleg, valdi lnyegem a rszvt s a
szeretet. Minden rszrehajlstl mentesen, szabad
vagyok szeretni.
K: Buddha mondta, hogy a megvilgosods ideja
rendkvl fontos. A legtbb ember gy li le az
lett, hogy mg csak nem is tudja, hogy ltezik
olyan, hogy megvilgosods, nemhogy az elrsre
trekedne. Mihelyst tudomst szereznek rla, egy
mag kerl elvetsre, amely halhatatlan. Ezrt
klden bhikust, hogy nyolc hnapon t
szntelenl imdkozzon, minden vben.
M: Az ember kpes arra, hogy telt, ruht, fedelet,
tudst, szeretet adjon, de a legnagyobb ajndk a
megvilgosods evangliuma, szokta volt mondani
a Gurum. Igazad van, a megvilgosods a
legfelsbb j. Amint rendelkezel vele, senki nem
tudja azt elvenni tled.
K: Ha nyugaton gy beszlnl, az emberek rltnek
tartannak.
M: Persze, azt tennk. A tudatlan szmra minden
rltsg, amit nem rt. Ht aztn? Legyenek azok,
amik. n vagyok, ami vagyok, mert nem az n
rdemem, s k azok amik, mert nem az hibjuk.
A Legfelsbb Valsg megszmllhatatlan mdon
nyilvntja meg magt. Neveinek s forminak
szma vgtelen. Ugyanabban az cenban
keletkezik minden, merl el minden, mindennek a
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
pastime of the mind. What is, is lovable. Love is not
a result, it is the very ground of being. Wherever you
go, you will find being, consciousness and love. Why
and what for make preferences?
Q: When by natural causes thousands and millions
of lives are extinguished (as it happens in floods and
earthquakes), I do not grieve. But when one man
dies at the hand of man, I grieve extremely. The
inevitable has its own majesty, but killing is
avoidable and, therefore, ugly and altogether
horrible.
M: All happens as it happens. Calamities, whether
natural or man-made, happen, and there is no need
to feel horrified.
Q: How can anything be without cause?
M: In every event the entire universe is reflected.
The ultimate cause is untraceable. The very idea of
causation is only a way of thinking and speaking.
We cannot imagine, uncaused emergence. This,
however, does not prove the existence of causation.
Q: Nature is mindless, hence irresponsible. But man K: A termszet rtelem nlkli, ennl fogva
has a mind. Why is it so perverse? feleltlen. De az ember elmvel rendelkezik. Az
mirt olyan romlott?
M: The causes of perversity are also natural --
heredity, environment and so on. You are too quick
to condemn. Do not worry about others. Deal with
your own mind first. When you realise that your mind
too is a part of nature, the duality will cease.
Q: There is some mystery in it which I cannot
fathom. How can the mind be a part of nature?
M: Because nature is in the mind; without the mind
where is nature?
Q: If nature is in the mind and the mind is my own, I
should be able to control nature, which is not really
the case. Forces beyond my control determine my
behaviour.
M: Develop the witness attitude and you will find in
your own experience that detachment brings control.
The state of witnessing is full of power, there is
nothing passive about it.
42. Reality can not be Expressed
Questioner: I have noticed a new self emerging in
me, independent of the old self. They somehow co-
177
forrsa egy. Az okok s a kvetkezmnyek keresse
csak az elme idtltse. Ami van, szeretetremlt. A
szeretet nem eredmny, hanem a lt valdi alapja.
Brhov msz, ltet, tudatossgot s szeretet
tallsz. Mirt, s mi clbl kedveznk?
K: Amikor ezrek, s millik lete termszeti okok
miatt kerl kioltsra (ahogy rvz s fldrengs
idejn), nem bnkdom. De amikor az egyik ember
a msiknak a keztl hal meg, az rendkvl
elszomort. Az elkerlhetetlennek megvan a maga
mltsga, de a gyilkossg elkerlhet, ezrt csf
s vgkpp borzalmas.
M: Trtnik minden, ahogy trtnik. A csapsok,
legyenek azok termszetiek, vagy mestersgesek,
megtrtnnek, s nem kell rmletet rezni.
K: Hogyan ltezhetne brmi, anlkl, hogy oka
lenne?
M: Minden esemnyben az egsz univerzum
tkrzdik. A vgs ok kinyomozhatatlan. Az
okozatisg valjban csak egyfajta gondolkodsi s
beszd md. Nem tudjuk elkpzelni, hogy valami
nmagtl keletkezzk. Ez azonban nem bizonytja
az okozatisg fennllst.
M: A romlottsg oka szintn termszetiek rkls,
krnyezet, stb. Tl gyorsan tlsz. Ne aggdj msok
miatt. Foglakozz sajt elmddel elszr. Amikor
felismered, hogy elmd szintn a termszet rsze, a
dualits megsznik.
K: Valami olyan rejtly van ebben, aminek nem
tudok a mlyre hatolni. Hogyan lehetne az elme a
termszet rsze?
M: Mivelhogy a termszet az elmben van; az elme
nlkl hogy lehetne termszet?
K: Ha a termszet az elmben van, s az elme az
n sajtom, akkor rendelkeznem kellene a
termszet ellenrzsnek kpessgvel, ami nem
igazn fordul el. Ellenrzsemet meghalad erk
hatrozzk meg a viselkedsemet.
M: Fejleszd a tansg attitdjt, s ltni fogod sajt
tapasztalatod alapjn, hogy a prtatlansg elvezet
az ellenrzshez. A tansg llapota ervel teli, vele
kapcsolatban semmi nem passzv.
42. A valsg nem fejezdhet ki
Krdez: szre vettem, hogy egy j n keletkezik
bennem, amely fggetlen a rgi ntl. s ezek
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
exist. The old self goes on its habitual ways; the new valahogy egyttmkdnek. A rgi n a maga
lets the old be, but does not identify itself with it. szoksos mdjn mkdik; az j engedi, hadd
legyen a rgi, de nem azonostja magt vele.
Maharaj: What is the main difference between the
old self and the new?
Q: The old self wants everything defined and
explained. It wants things to fit each other verbally.
The new does not care for verbal explanations -- it
accepts things as they are and does not seek to
relate them to things remembered.
M: Are you fully and constantly aware of the
difference between the habitual and the spiritual?
What is the attitude of the new self to the old?
Q: The new just looks at the old. It is neither friendly
nor inimical. It just accepts the old self along with
everything else. It does not deny its being, but does
not accept its value and validity.
M: The new is the total denial of the old. The
permissive new is not really new. It is but a new
attitude of the old. The really new obliterates the old
completely. The two cannot be together. Is there a
process of self-denudation, a constant refusal to
accept the old ideas and values, or is there just a
mutual tolerance? What is their relation?
Q: There is no particular relation. They co-exist.
M: When you talk of the old self and new, whom do
you have in mind? As there is continuity in memory
between the two, each remembering the other, how
can you speak of two selves?
Q: One is a slave to habits, the other is not. One
conceptualises, the other is free from all ideas.
M: Why two selves? Between the bound and the
free there can be no relationship. The very fact of
co-existence proves their basic unity. There is but
one self -- it is always now. What you call the other
self -- old or new -- is but a modality, another aspect
of the one self. The self is single. You are that self
and you have ideas of what you have been or will
be. But an idea is not the self. Just now, as you are
sitting in front of me, which self are you? The old or
the new?
Q: The two are in conflict.
M: How can there be conflict between what is and
what is not? Conflict is the characteristic of the old.
When the new emerges the old is no longer. You
cannot speak of the new and the conflict in the same
178
Maharaj: Mi a legfontosabb klnbsg a rgi s az
j n kztt?
K: A rgi mindent definilni akar, s meg akar
magyarzni. Az dolgokat verblisan akarja
megfeleltetni egymsnak. Az j nem trdik verblis
magyarzatokkal elfogadja a dolgokat, ahogy azok
vannak, s nem keres sszefggst az ismert
dolgokkal.
M: Teljesen s llandan tudatban vagy a
szoksos s a spiritulis kztti klnbsgnek?
Hogy viselkedik az j n a rgivel?
K: Az j csak szemlli a rgit. Se nem
bartsgosan, se nem ellensgesen. Csak elfogadja
a rgi nt, mint ahogy minden mst is. Nem tagadja
ltt, de rtkt s rvnyessgt nem fogadja el.
M: Az j a totlis tagadsa a rginek. A megenged
j valjban nem j. Csak a rginek egy j attitdje.
A valban j teljesen kiirtja a rgit. A kett nem
ltezhet egytt. nlept folyamatnak, a rgi idek
s rtkek elfogadsa folytonos megtagadsnak
tapasztalod, vagy csupn egy klcsns
tolerancirl van sz? Milyen a viszonyuk?
K: Nincsenek semmilyen kapcsolatban. Egytt
lteznek.
M: Amikor rgi s j nrl beszlsz, kire gondolsz?
Mivel a memriban kontinuits van a kett kztt,
mindegyik emlkszik a msikra, hogy beszlhetsz
kt nrl?
K: Az egyik al van rendelve a szoksoknak, a
msik nem. Az egyik fogalmakat alkot, a msik
minden idetl mentes.
M: Mirt beszlsz kt nrl? A kttt s a ktetlen
kztt nem ltezhet kapcsolat. Egyttmkdsknek
a puszta tnye bizonytja alapvet egysgket. Csak
egy n van ami mindig most van. Amit a msik
rgi vagy j nnek nevezel, az az egyetlen nnek
egy msik aspektusa. Egyetlen n van. Te vagy az
az n, s neked vannak arrl ideid, hogy mi voltl,
vagy leszel. De egy idea az nem az n. ppen most,
ahogy itt lsz elttem, melyik n vagy? A rgi vagy
az j?
K: Kzdenek egymssal.
M: Hogyan lehetne kzdelem ltez s nem ltez
kztt? A kzdelem a rgi sajtossga. Amikor az j
megjelenik, a rgi nincs tbb. Nem beszlhetsz az
jrl, s ugyanakkor kzdelemrl. Mg az j nre
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
breath. Even the effort of striving for the new self is
of the old. Wherever there is conflict, effort, struggle,
striving, longing for a change, the new is not. To
what extent are you free from the habitual tendency
to create and perpetuate conflicts?
Q: I cannot say that I am now a different man. But I
did discover new things about myself, states so
unlike what I knew before that I feel justified in
calling them new.
M: The old self is your own self. The state which
sprouts suddenly and without cause, carries no stain
of self; you may call it 'god'. What is seedless and
rootless, what does not sprout and grow, flower and
fruit, what comes into being suddenly and in full
glory, mysteriously and marvellously, you may call
that 'god'. It is entirely unexpected yet inevitable,
infinitely familiar yet most surprising, beyond all
hope yet absolutely certain. Because it is without
cause, it is without hindrance. It obeys one law only;
the law of freedom. Anything that implies a
continuity, a sequence, a passing from stage to
stage cannot be the real. There is no progress in
reality, it is final, perfect, unrelated.
Q: How can I bring it about?
M: You can do nothing to bring it about, but you can
avoid creating obstacles. Watch your mind, how it
comes into being, how it operates. As you watch
your mind, you discover your self as the watcher.
When you stand motionless, only watching, you
discover your self as the light behind the watcher.
The source of light is dark, unknown is the source of
knowledge. That source alone is. Go back to that
source and abide there. It is not in the sky nor in the
all-pervading ether. God is all that is great and
wonderful; I am nothing, have nothing, can do
nothing. Yet all comes out of me -- the source is me;
the root, the origin is me.
When reality explodes in you, you may call it
experience of God. Or, rather, it is God experiencing
you. God knows you when you know yourself.
Reality is not the result of a process; it is an
explosion. It is definitely beyond the mind, but all you
can do is to know your mind well. Not that the mind
will help you, but by knowing your mind you may
avoid your mind disabling you. You have to be very
alert, or else your mind will play false with you. It is
like watching a thief -- not that you expect anything
from a thief, but you do not want to be robbed. In the
same way you give a lot of attention to the mind
without expecting anything from it.
179
trekvs erfesztse is a rgi. Ahol kzdelem,
erfeszts, harc, trekvs, vltozs utni vgyds
van, ott nincs jelen az j. Mennyire vagy mentes a
konfliktusok ltrehozsnak s fenntartsnak
szoksos tendencijtl?
K: Nem tudom azt mondani, hogy most ms ember
vagyok. De j dolgokat fedeztem fel magamrl,
llapotokat, amelyek nem hasonltanak az ezeltt
ismertekre, teht rzsem szerint jogosan nevezem
ket jnak.
M: A rgi n a te sajt ned. A hirtelen, s ok nlkl
kicsrz llapotot, amely nem viseli az n szennyt,
nevezheted istennek. Ami mag- s gykr nlkli,
ami nem csrzik, s nem nvekszik, nem virgzik
s nincs gymlcse, ami hirtelen szletik s teljes
ragyogsban, rejtelmes s csodlatos mdon, azt
nevezheted istennek. Ez teljesen vratlan, mgis
szksgszer, vgtelenl ismers, mgis a
legmeglepbb, minden remny fltt ll, mgis
abszolt bizonyos. Mivel ok nlkli, ezrt
akadlyoztatstl mentes. Egyetlen trvnynek
engedelmeskedik csak, a szabadsg trvnynek.
Semmi olyan, amelyet kontinuits, sorrendisg,
llapotok vltakozsa jellemez, nem lehet valdi. A
valsgban nincs fejlds, az vgleges, tkletes,
fggetlen.
K: Hogyan valsthatom meg?
M: Semmit sem tehetsz a megvalstsrt, de el
tudod kerlni, hogy akadlyokat hozz ltre. Figyeld
elmdet, a ltrejttnek, a mkdsnek a mdjt.
Elmd figyelse sorn nedet ismered fel a
figyelben. Amikor mozdulatlansgban tartzkodsz,
figyelve csupn, nedet a figyel mgtti fnyknt
fedezed fel. A fnyforrs stt, ismeretlen a tuds
forrsa. Egyedl az a forrs. Menj vissza ahhoz a
forrshoz, s idzz ott. A forrs nem a mennyben
van, sem a mindent that terben. Isten minden,
ami hatalmas s csodlatos; n semmi nem vagyok,
nincs semmim, nem tudok tenni semmit. Mgis
bellem ered minden n vagyok a forrs; n
vagyok az eredet, a kezdet.
Azt, amikor a valsg felrobban benned, nevezheted
Isten megtapasztalsnak. Vagy mg inkbb, ez a
tged tapasztal Isten. Isten akkor ismer tged,
amikor te ismered magadat. A valsg nem egy
folyamat eredmnye, az egy robbans. Ktsgtelen,
hogy az elmn tl van, de te mindssze annyit
tehetsz, hogy elmdet jl megismered. Nem mintha
az elme segtsgedre lehetne, de megismersvel
elkerlheted, hogy megbntson tged. Nagyon
bernek kell lenned, klnben elrul tged. Ez
olyan, mint tolvajt figyelni nem azrt, mert vrsz
valamit tle, hanem mert nem akarod, hogy
kifosszon. Hasonl mdon szentelj teljes figyelmet
az elmnek, anlkl, hogy vrnl tle brmit.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Or, take another example. We wake and we sleep.
After a day's work sleep comes. Now, do I go to
sleep or does inadvertence -- characteristic of the
sleeping state -- come to me? In other words -- we
are awake because we are asleep. We do not wake
up into a really waking state. In the waking state the
world emerges due to ignorance and takes one into
a waking-dream state. Both sleep and waking are
misnomers. We are only dreaming. True waking and
true sleeping only the gnani knows. We dream that
we are awake, we dream that we are asleep. The
three states are only varieties of the dream state.
Treating everything as a dream liberates. As long as
you give reality to dreams, you are their slave. By
imagining that you are born as so-and-so, you
become a slave to the so-and-so. The essence of
slavery is to imagine yourself to be a process, to
have past and future, to have history. In fact, we
have no history, we are not a process, we do not
develop, nor decay; also see all as a dream and stay
out of it.
Q: What benefit do I derive from listening to you?
M: I am calling you back to yourself. All I ask you is
to look at yourself, towards yourself, into yourself.
Q: To what purpose?
M: You live, you feel, you think. By giving attention
to your living, feeling and thinking, you free yourself
from them and go beyond them. Your personality
dissolves and only the witness remains. Then you
go beyond the witness. Do not ask how it happens.
Just search within yourself.
Q: What makes the difference between the person
and the witness?
M: Both are modes of consciousness. In one you
desire and fear, in the other you are unaffected by
pleasure and pain and are not ruffled by events. You
let them come and go.
Q: How does one get established in the higher state, K: Hogyan ri el az ember magasabb llapotot, a
the state of pure witnessing? tiszta tansg llapott?
M: Consciousness does not shine by itself. It shines
by a light beyond it. Having seen the dreamlike
quality of consciousness, look for the light in which it
appears, which gives it being. There is the content of
consciousness as well as the awareness of it.
Q: I know and I know that I know.
M: Quite so, provided the second knowledge is
180
Vagy, egy msik plda. bren vagyunk s alszunk.
A napi munka utn alvs jn. Na most elalszom,
vagy pedig az alv llapot jellemzjeknt elnyom
a figyelmetlensg? Ms szval azrt brednk fel,
mert alszunk. Nem egy valban felbredt llapotba
brednk fel. Az ber llapotban a vilg, a
tudatlansg miatt megjelenik, s az embert ber-
lom llapotba viszi. Mind az alvs, mind az brenlt
tves elnevezs. Mi csak lmodunk. Az igazi
brenltet, s az igazi alvst csak a gnani ismeri.
lmodjuk azt, hogy bren vagyunk, s lmodjuk azt,
hogy alszunk. A hrom llapot csak az lom
llapotnak a vltozatai. Ha mindent lomknt fogsz
fel, az megszabadt. Amg valsgnak tekinted az
lmokat, a rabszolgjuk vagy. Azon elkpzels ltal,
hogy X.Y.-knt szlettl, rabszolgja lettl az X.Y.-
nak. A rabszolgasg lnyege, hogy nmagadat egy
mlttal s jvvel, trtnettel rendelkez
folyamatnak kpzeled. Valjban nincs trtnetnk,
nem vagyunk folyamat, nem fejldnk, s nem is
hanyatlunk; mindezt szintn lsd lomnak, s
maradj rajta kvl.
K: Mi elnym szrmazik abbl, hogy tged
hallgatlak?
M: n visszahvlak magadhoz. Mindssze annyit
krek tled, hogy tekints magadra, magad fel,
magadba.
K: Milyen clbl?
M: lsz, rzel, gondolkodsz. leted, rzseid,
gondolkodsod figyelsvel megszabadtod magad
tlk, s meghaladod azokat. Szemlyisged
szertefoszlik, s csak a tan marad. Azutn haladd
meg a tant. Ne krdezd, hogyan trtnik. Csak
keress nmagadon bell.
K: Mi a klnbsg a szemly s a tan kztt?
M: Mindkett tudatossgi md. Az egyikben vgysz
s flsz, a msikban rzketlen vagy lvezet s
fjdalom irnt, s nem zavarnak esemnyek. Hagyd
ket megjelenni s eltnni.
M: A tudatossg nem nmagtl ragyog. A mgtte
lv fnytl ragyog. Ltvn a tudatossg lomszer
minsgt, keresd a fnyt, amiben az megjelenik,
amely ltezst ad neki. Van a tudatossg tartalom,
valamint a rla val tudoms.
K: Tudom, s tudom, hogy tudom.
M: Helyes, azzal a felttellel, hogy a msodik tuds
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
unconditional and timeless. Forget the known, but
remember that you are the knower. Don't be all the
time immersed in your experiences. Remember that
you are beyond the experience ever unborn and
deathless. In remembering it, the quality of pure
knowledge will emerge, the light of unconditional
awareness.
Q: At what point does one experience reality?
M: Experience is of change, it comes and goes.
Reality is not an event, it cannot be experienced. It
is not perceivable in the same way as an event is
perceivable. If you wait for an event to take place,
for the coming of reality, you will wait for ever, for
reality neither comes nor goes. It is to be perceived,
not expected. It is not to be prepared for and
anticipated. But the very longing and search for
reality is the movement, operation, action of reality.
All you can do is to grasp the central point, that
reality is not an event and does not happen and
whatever happens, whatever comes and goes, is not
reality. See the event as event only, the transient as
transient, experience as mere experience and you
have done all you can. Then you are vulnerable to
reality, no longer armoured against it, as you were
when you gave reality to events and experiences.
But as soon as there is some like or dislike, you
have drawn a screen.
Q: Would you say that reality expresses itself in
action rather than in knowledge? Or, is it a feeling of
sorts?
M: Neither action, nor feeling, nor thought express
reality. There is no such thing as an expression of
reality. You are introducing a duality where there is
none. Only reality is, there is nothing else. The three
states of waking, dreaming and sleeping are not me
and I am not in them. When I die, the world will say -
- 'Oh, Maharaj is dead.' But to me these are words
without content; they have no meaning. When the
worship is done before the image of the Guru, all
takes place as if he wakes and bathes and eats and
rests, and goes for a stroll and returns, blesses all
and goes to sleep. All is attended to in minutest
details and yet there is a sense of unreality about it
all. So is the case with me. All happens as it needs,
yet nothing happens. I do what seems to be
necessary, but at the same time I know that nothing
is necessary, that life itself is only a make-belief.
Q: Why then live at all? Why all this unnecessary
coming and going, waking and sleeping, eating and
digesting?
181
kondicionlatlan s idtlen. Felejtsd el a tudst, de
emlkezz r, hogy te a tud vagy. Ne lgy folyton a
tapasztalataidba merlve. Emlkezz, hogy te a
tapasztalat felett ll vagy, aki soha nem szletett,
s halhatatlan. Az erre val emlkezsben felsznre
fog emelkedni a tiszta tuds minsge, a
kondicionlatlan ber-tudatossg fnye.
K: Melyik ponton ismeri meg az ember a valsgot?
M: A tapasztals vltozs jelleg dolog, amely jn
s eltvozik. A valsg nem valamifle esemny,
nem megtapasztalhat. Nem szlelhet ugyanolyan
mdon, ahogy egy esemny szlelhet. Ha arra
vrsz, hogy majd egy esemny trtnik, hogy
bekvetkezzk a valsg, akkor rkk vrni fogsz,
mert a valsg nem jn, s nem megy. Az egy
szlelend, nem pedig elvrand dolog. Nem
kszthet el, mint valami olyan, ami elre lthat.
Csak a valsg valdi vgya, s keresse jelenti a
valsg mozgst, mkdst, cselekvst.
Mindssze annyit tehetsz, hogy megrted a kzponti
lnyeget, hogy a valsg nem esemny, s nem
trtns, s brmi, ami trtnik, brmi, ami jn s
megy, az nem valsg. Lsd az esemnyt puszta
esemnynek, a mulandt mulandnak, a
tapasztalatot puszta tapasztalatnak, s mindent
megtettl, amit megtehetsz. Ekkor sebezhet vagy a
valsg ltal, nem leszel tbb pnclba bortva
vele szemben, mint amilyen akkor voltl, mikor a
valsgot mg esemnyeknek s tapasztatoknak
tartottad. De amint megjelenik valamicske vonzalom
vagy ellenszenv, a vettvszon azonnal beszippant.
K: Azt akarod mondani, hogy a valsg inkbb
cselekvsben fejezi ki magt, mint tudsban? Vagy
valamifle rzs?
M: Sem cselekvs, sem rzs, sem gondolat nem
fejezi ki a valsgot. Nem ltezik olyan dolog, ami a
valsgot kifejezn. Dualitst vezetsz be oda, ahol
az nincs. Csak valsg van, semmi ms nincs. Az
brenlt, lom s alvs hrom llapota nem vagyok
n, s nem vagyok bennk. Amikor meghalok, a
vilg azt mondja majd , Maharaj halott. De
szmomra ezek tartalom nlkli szavak; nincs
jelentsk. A Guru kpe eltti imdkozskor minden
gy zajlik, mintha felbredne, s megfrdene, s
enne s pihenne, stlna kicsit, majd visszatrne,
dicsten a mindensget, s aludni trne. Mindenre
a legaprbb rszletekig kitr a figyelem, s mgis
jelen van az rzs, hogy mindez valszertlen. Ez a
helyzet velem. Csinlom, ami szksgesnek ltszik,
de ugyanakkor tudom, hogy semmi nem szksges,
hogy az let csak ltszat.
K: Minek akkor lni egyltaln? Mire val ez az
egsz szksgtelen jvs-mens, felbreds s
elalvs, evs s emszts?
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
M: Nothing is done by me, everything just happens I
do not expect, I do not plan, I just watch events
happening, knowing them to be unreal.
Q: Were you always like this from the first moment
of enlightenment?
M: The three states rotate as usual -- there is
waking and sleeping and waking again, but they do
not happen to me. They just happen. To me nothing
ever happens. There is something changeless,
motionless, immovable, rocklike, unassailable; a
solid mass of pure being-consciousness-bliss. I am
never out of it. Nothing can take me out of it, no
torture, no calamity.
Q: Yet, you are conscious.
M: Yes and no. There is peace -- deep, immense,
unshakeable. Events are registered in memory, but
are of no importance. I am hardly aware of them.
Q: If I understand you rightly, this state did not come K: Ha jl rtelek, ez az llapot nem gyakorls ltal
by cultivation.
M: There was no coming. It was so -- always. There
was discovery and it was sudden. Just as at birth
you discover the world suddenly, as suddenly I
discovered my real being.
Q: Was it clouded over and your sadhana dissolved
the mist? When your true state became clear to you,
did it remain clear, or did it get obscured again? Is
your condition permanent or intermittent?
M: Absolutely steady. Whatever I may do, it stays
like a rock -- motionless. Once you have awakened
into reality, you stay in it. A child does not return to
the womb. It is a simple state, smaller than the
smallest, bigger than the biggest. It is self-evident
and yet beyond description.
Q: Is there a way to it?
M: Everything can become a way, provided you are
interested. Just puzzling over my words and trying to
grasp their full meaning is a sadhana quite sufficient
for breaking down the wall. Nothing troubles me. I
offer no resistance to trouble -- therefore it does not
stay with me. On your side there is so much trouble.
On mine there is no trouble at all. Come to my side.
You are trouble-prone. I am immune. Anything may
happen -- what is needed is sincere interest.
Earnestness does it.
182
M: Semmit nem n teszek, minden csak gy
megtrtnik, s nem vrok el, nem tervezek, n csak
figyelem az esemnyek megtrtntt, tudvn, hogy
nem azok nem valdiak.
K: Mindig szeretted ezt, a megvilgosods els
pillanattl?
M: A hrom llapot a megszokott mdon vltakozik
brenlt s alvs, s ismt brenlt, de ezek nem
velem trtnnek. Csak gy megtrtnnek. Velem
soha semmi nem trtnik. Ez valami vltozatlan,
mozdulatlan, mozdthatatlan, kszer,
megtmadhatatlan; a tiszta lt-tudatossg-
boldogsg tmr masszja. Soha nem jvk ki
belle. Semmi nem brhat r, hogy kijjjek belle,
sem szenveds, sem csaps.
K: De mgis tudatos vagy.
M: Igen, s nem. Ez bke mly, mrhetetlen,
rendthetetlen. Az esemnyek feljegyzsre kerlnek
az emlkezetben, de nincs jelentsgk. Alig
vagyok a tudatukban.
alakult ki.
M: Nem alakult ki. gy volt mindig. Felfedezs volt,
s az hirtelen trtnt. Mint amikor szletskor
hirtelen felfedezed a vilgot, olyan hirtelen fedeztem
fel valdi ltemet.
K: Felhvel volt betakarva, s sadhand eloszlatta a
homlyt? Amikor igazi llapotod tiszta lett szmodra,
tiszta is maradt, vagy ismt elhomlyosodott?
llapotod tarts, vagy idszakos?
M: Abszolte szilrd. Akrmit csinlhatok, gy
marad, mint a szikla mozdulatlan. Amikor a
belebredtl a valsgba, benne is maradsz. A
gyermek nem tr vissza az anyamhbe. Ez
egyszer llapot, kisebb, mint a legkisebb, nagyobb,
mint a legnagyobb. Magtl rtetd, s mgis
lerhatatlan.
K: Van odavezet t?
M: Minden vlhat tt, rdekldsed esetn. A
szavaim feletti puszta tprengs, s teljes jelentsk
megragadsra val trekvs is egy sadhana,
amely teljesen elegend a fal ledntshez. Engem
semmi nem zavar. Javaslom, ne llj ellen a bajnak
akkor nem fog rd hatni. A te oldaladon oly sok gond
van. Az enymen egyltaln nincsenek gondok.
Gyere t az n oldalamra. Te hajlamos vagy a
problmkra. n immunis vagyok. Akrmi
megtrtnhet ami szksges hozz, az szinte
rdeklds. A komolysg megcsinlja.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: Can I do it?
M: Of course. You are quite capable of crossing
over. Only be sincere.
43. Ignorance can be Recognised, not
Gnana
Questioner: From year to year your teaching
remains the same. There seems to be no progress
in what you tell us.
Maharaj: In a hospital the sick are treated and get
well. The treatment is routine, with hardly any
change, but there is nothing monotonous about
health. My teaching may be routine, but the fruit of it
is new from man to man.
Q: What is realisation? Who is a realised man? By
what is the gnani recognised?
M: There are no distinctive marks of gnana. Only
ignorance can be recognised, not gnana. Nor does a
gnani claim to be something special. AII those who
proclaim their own greatness and uniqueness are
not gnanis. They are mistaking some unusual
development for realisation. The gnani shows no
tendency to proclaim himself to be a gnani. He
considers himself to be perfectly normal, true to his
real nature. Proclaiming oneself to be an
omnipotent, omniscient and omnipotent deity is a
clear sign of ignorance.
Q: Can the gnani convey his experience to the
ignorant? Can gnana be transmitted from one man
to another?
M: Yes, it can. The words of a gnani have the power
of dispelling ignorance and darkness in the mind. It
is not the words that matter, but the power behind
them.
Q: What is that power?
M: The power of conviction, based on personal
realisation, on one's own direct experience.
Q: Some realised people say that knowledge must
be won, not got. Another can only teach, but the
learning is one's own.
M: It comes to the same.
Q: There are many who have practiced Yoga for K: Sokan vannak, akik veken t gyakoroltk a
years and years without any result. What may be the Yogt, minden eredmny nlkl. Mi lehet az oka a
cause of their failure? sikertelensgk?
M: Some are addicted to trances, with their
183
K: Meg tudom tenni?
M: Termszetesen. Minden kpessggel
rendelkezel az tkelshez. Csak lgy szinte.
43. A tudatlansg felismerhet, a Gnana
nem
Krdez: vrl vre ugyanazt tantod. Nem ltszik,
fejlds abban, amit mondasz neknk.
Maharaj: A krhzban a betegek kezelst kapnak,
s meggygyulnak. A kezels rutinszer, alig valami
vltozssal, mg sincs semmifle egyhangsg az
egszsggyben. Az n tantsom lehet, hogy
rutinszer, de emberrl emberre j gymlcst hoz.
K: Mi a megvalsuls? Ki a megvalsult ember?
Mirl lehet a gnanit felismerni?
M: A gnannak nincsenek szrevehet jelei. Csak a
tudatlansg ismerhet fel, a gnana nem. A gnani
valamifle klnlegessgre sem tart ignyt.
Mindazok, akik sajt nagysgukat s egyedisgket
hirdetik, nem gnanik. k flrertik a megvalsuls
fel val fejlds bizonyos szokatlan jeleit. A gnani
nem mutat hajlamot annak kinyilvntsra, hogy
gnani. teljesen normlisnak tekinti magt, igaz
termszetnek megfelelen. Ha valaki
mindenhatnak, mindentud s mindenhat
istensgnek nyilvntja ki magt, az a tudatlansg
nyilvnval jele.
K: A gnani t tudja adni a szemlyes tapasztalatait a
tudatlannak? Kzvetthet a gnana egyik embertl a
msik fel?
M: Igen, t tudja adni. A gnani szavai rendelkeznek
az ervel, amely eloszlatja az elme tudatlansgt s
sttsgt. Nem a szavak szmtanak, hanem a
mgttk lv er.
K: Mi az az er?
M: A szemlyes megvalsulson, a sajt kzvetlen
tapasztalaton alapul meggyzs ereje.
K: Egyes megvalsult emberek azt mondjk, hogy a
tudst elnyerni kell, nem megszerezni. Msok csak
tantani tudnak, de a tuds az ember sajtja.
M: Ez ugyanoda vezet.
M: Nmelyek eksztzis-fggkk vltak, amely
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
consciousness in abeyance. Without full
consciousness what progress can there be?
Q: Many are practicing samadhis (states of K: Sokan vgeznek samadhikat (elragadtatott
rapturous absorption). In samadhis consciousness is szellemei elmlyeds llapotai). Samadhiban a
quite intense, yet they do not result in anything. tudatossg teljesen intenzv, mgsem rnek el
semmilyen eredmnyt.
M: What results do you expect? And why should
gnana be the result of anything? One thing leads to
another, but gnana is not a thing to be bound by
causes and results. It is beyond causality altogether.
It is abidance in the self. The Yogi comes to know
many wonders, but of the self he remains ignorant.
The gnani may look and feel quite ordinary, but the
self he knows well.
Q: There are many who strive for self-knowledge
earnestly, but with scant results. What may be the
cause of it?
M: They have not investigated the sources of
knowledge sufficiently, their sensations, feelings and
thoughts they do not know well enough. This may be
one cause of delay. The other: some desires may
still be alive.
Q: Ups and downs in sadhana are inevitable. Yet
the earnest seeker plods on in spite of all. What can
the gnani do for such a seeker?
M: If the seeker is earnest, the light can be given.
The light is for all and always there, but the seekers
are few, and among those few, those who are ready
are very rare. Ripeness of heart and mind is
indispensable.
Q: Did you get your own realisation through effort or
by the grace of your Guru?
M: His was the teaching and mine was the trust. My
confidence in him made me accept his words as
true, go deep into them, live them, and that is how I
came to realise what I am. The Guru's person and
words made me trust him and my trust made them
fruitful.
Q: But can a Guru give realisation without words,
without trust, just like this, without any preparation?
M: Yes, one can, but where is the taker? You see, I
was so attuned to my Guru, so completely trusting
him, there was so little of resistance in me, that it all
happened easily and quickly. But not everybody is
so fortunate. Laziness and restlessness often stand
in the way and until they are seen and removed, the
progress is slow. All those who have realised on the
184
tudatossguk felfggesztdsvel jr. Teljes
tudatossg nlkl mifle halads lenne lehetsges?
M: Milyen eredmnyt remlsz? s mirt kellene,
hogy a gnana eredmnye legyen brminek? Egyik
dolog msikhoz vezet, de a gnana nem okok s
eredmnyek ltal megkttt dolog. Tl van az
oksgon, teljesen. A gnana az nben val idzs. A
Yogi sok csodt megismer, de njvel kapcsolatban
tudatlan marad. A gnani lehet, hogy teljesen
szokvnyos megjelensnek ltszik, s rzi magt,
de njt jl ismeri.
K: Sokan vannak, akik komolyan trekszenek az
nmegismersre, de csekly eredmnnyel. Mi lehet
az oka?
M: Nem tanulmnyoztk elgg a tuds forrsait,
rzeteiket, rzseiket s gondolataikat nem ismerik
elg jl. Ez lehet az egyik oka a ksedelemnek. A
msik: mg elevenek lehetnek bizonyos vgyaik.
K: A hullmzsok elkerlhetetlenek a sadhanban.
De a komoly keresk, mindennek ellenre, kitartan
folytatjk. Mit tud tenni a gnani egy ilyen keresrt?
M: Ha a keres komoly, a fnyt megkaphatja. A fny
mindig mindenkinek a rendelkezsre ll, de a
keresk kevesen vannak, s ezen kevs kztt
nagyon ritka, aki felkszlt. A szv s elme rettsge
nlklzhetetlen.
K: Te a sajt megvalsulsodat erfeszts tjn,
vagy Gurud kegyelmbl kaptad?
M: Az v a tants volt, az enym pedig a bizalom.
A bel vetett bizalmam eredmnyezte, hogy szavait
igaznak fogadjam el, elmlyedjek bennk, velk
ljek, s gy jutottam el annak realizlshoz, ami
vagyok. A Guru szemlye s szavai hatottak rm,
hogy bzzak benne, s hitem tettek azokat
gymlcszv.
K: De tud-e a Guru szavak nlkl, hit nlkl, csak
gy, minden felkszltsg nlkl megvalsulsban
rszesteni?
M: Igen, tud, de hol van, aki fogadja? Tudod krlek,
n olyannyira Gurumra voltam hangoldva, olyan
teljes mrtkben hittem neki, olyan kevs volt
bennem az ellenlls, hogy minden knnyen s
gyorsan trtnt. De nem mindenki ilyen szerencss.
Lustasg s trelmetlensg llnak gyakran utadba,
s amg azokat meg nem ltod, s el nem tvoltod,
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
spot, by mere touch, look or thought, have been ripe a halads lass. Mindazok, akik egy villans alatt,
for it. But such are very few. The majority needs egy puszta rintsre, nzsre vagy gondolatra
some time for ripening. Sadhana is accelerated valsultak meg, azok rettek voltak r. De ilyenek
ripening. nagyon kevesen vannak. A tbbsgnek szksge
van bizonyos idre az rshez. A sadhana
meggyorstja az rst.

Q: What makes one ripe? What is the ripening K: Mi teszi az embert rett? Mi a megrlel
factor? tnyez?

M: Earnestness of course, one must be really M: Komolysg, termszetesen, az egyn legyen

anxious. After all, the realised man is the most valban igyekv. Tulajdonkppen, a megvalsult
earnest man. Whatever he does, he does it ember a legkomolyabb ember. Brmit csinl, azt
completely, without limitations and reservations. tkletesen csinlja, korltok s fenntartsok nlkl.
Integrity will take you to reality. Az integrits el fog vezetni tged a valsghoz.

Q: Do you love the world? K: Szereted a vilgot?

M: When you are hurt, you cry. Why? Because you
love yourself. Don't bottle up your love by limiting it
to the body, keep it open. It will be then the love for
all. When all the false selfidentifications are thrown
away, what remains is all-embracing love. Get rid of
all ideas about yourself, even of the idea that you
are God. No self-definition is valid.
M: Amikor megsrlsz, knnyezel. Mirt? Mert
szereted magad. Ne zrd el a szeretetedet a
testedre korltozsval, tartsd nyitva. Akkor mindent
szeretni fogsz. Amikor minden hamis nazonosulst
elvetettl, a mindent tlel szeretet marad. Tvolts
el minden idet magadrl, mg a te vagy Isten
idejt is. Semmilyen nazonosuls nem tvnyes.

Q: I am tired of promises. I am tired of sadhanas, K: Belefradtam az gretekbe. Belefradtam a

which take all my time and energy and bring nothing. sadhankba, amelyek felemsztik minden idmet s
I want reality here and now. Can I have it? energimat, s nem vezetnek sehov. A valsgot
akarom, itt s most. Megszerezhetem?

M: Of course you can, provided you are really fed up
with everything, including your sadhanas. When you
demand nothing of the world, nor of God, when you
want nothing, seek nothing, expect nothing then the
Supreme State will come to you uninvited and
unexpected.
M: Termszetesen, attl fggen, hogy valban
torkig vagy-e mindennel, belertve a sadhandat is.
Amikor nem krsz semmit sem a vilgtl, sem
Istentl, amikor nem akarsz semmit, nem keresel
semmit, nem vrsz el semmit, akkor jn el hozzd a
Legfelsbb llapot, hvatlanul s vratlanul.

Q: If a man engrossed in family life and in the affairs K: Ha valakit lefoglal a csaldi lete, s a vilg
of the world does his sadhana strictly as prescribed gyei, pontosan, a szent knyvek elrsai szerint
by his scriptures, will he get results? vgzi a sadhanjt, eredmnyre fog jutni?

M: Results he will get, but he will be wrapped up in M: Fog elrni eredmnyeket, de teljesen beljk fog
them like in a cocoon. burkolzni, mint a selyemherny.

Q: So many saints say that when you are ripe and
ready, you will realise. Their words may be true, but
they are of little use. There must be a way out,
independent of ripening which needs time, of
sadhana which needs effort.
K: Nagyon sok szenttl hallani, hogy amikor
megrtl, s kszen llsz, meg fogsz valsulni.
Lehet, hogy ezek a szavak igazak, de hasznuk nem
sok. Kell, hogy ltezzen idignyes rstl,
erfesztseket ignyl sadhantl fggetlen
mdszer.

M: Don't call it a way; it is more a kind of skill. It is M: Ne nevezd mdszernek; tbb az, valamifle
not even that. Stay open and quiet, that is all. What kszsgnl. Maradj nyitott s nyugodt, ez minden.
you seek is so near you, that there is no place for a Amit keresel, az olyan kzel van hozzd, hogy ott
way. nincs hely t szmra.

Q: There are so many ignorant people in the world K: Oly sok tudatlan ember van a vilgon, s oly
and so few gnanis. What may be the cause of it? kevs gnani. Mi lehet ennek az oka?

185
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
M: Don't concern yourself with others, take care of
yourself. You know that you are. Don't burden
yourself with names, just be. Any name or shape
you give yourself obscures your real nature.
Q: Why should seeking end before one can realise?
M: The desire for truth is the highest of all desires,
yet, it is still a desire. All desires must be given up to
the real to be. Remember that you are. This is your
working capital. Rotate it and there will be much
profit.
Q: Why should there be seeking at all.
M: Life is seeking, one cannot help seeking. When
all search ceases, it is the Supreme State.
Q: Why does the Supreme State come and go?
M: It neither comes nor goes. It is.
Q: Do you speak from your own experience?
M: Of course. It is a timeless state, ever present.
Q: With me it comes and goes, with you it does not.
Why this difference?
M: Maybe because I have no desires. Or you do not
desire the Supreme strongly enough. You must feel
desperate when your mind is out of touch.
Q: All my life I was striving and achieved so little. I
was reading, I was listening -- all in vain.
M: Listening and reading became a habit with you.
Q: I gave it up too. I do not read nowadays.
M: What you gave up is of no importance now. What
have you not given up? Find that out and give up
that. Sadhana is a search for what to give up. Empty
yourself completely.
Q: How can a fool desire wisdom? One needs to
know the object of desire, to desire it. When the
Supreme is not known, how can it be desired?
M: Man naturally ripens and becomes ready for
realisation.
Q: But what is the ripening factor?
186
M: Ne trdj msokkal, magadra gyelj. Tudod,
hogy vagy. Ne terheld magad nevekkel, csak legyl.
Brmilyen nevet vagy formt adsz nmagadnak, az
elhomlyostja valdi termszetedet.
K: Mirt kell a vgst keresni, mieltt az ember
megvalsulhatna?
M: Az igazsg irnti vgy a legnagyobb minden
vgy kzl, mgis csak egy vgy. Minden vgyat fel
kell adni ahhoz, hogy a valdi ltezzen. Tartsd az
eszedben, hogy vagy. Ez a te mkd tkd.
Forgasd meg, s profitot fog eredmnyezni.
K: Mirt kell egyltaln keresni?
M: Az let keress, az egyn nem tudja segteni a
keresst. Amikor minden keress megsznik, az a
Legfelsbb llapot.
K: A Legfelsbb llapot mirt jn s megy?
M: Se nem jn, se nem megy. Van.
K: Sajt tapasztalatod alapjn beszlsz?
M: Termszetesen. Ez egy idtlen llapot, rk
jelen.
K: Az n esetemben jn s megy, a tidben nem.
Mirt ez a klnbsg?
M: Taln azrt, mert nekem nincsenek vgyaim.
Vagy te nem vgysz a Legfelsbbre elg ersen.
Ktsgbeesettsget kell rezned, amikor elmd
kvl kerl a kapcsolaton.
K: Egsz letemben trekedtem, s annyira keveset
rtem el. Olvastam, hallgattam mindezt
hibavalan.
M: A hallgats s olvass szoksodd vlt.
K: Ezt is feladtam. Nem olvasok mostanban.
M: Amit feladtl, annak most nincs jelentsge. Mi
az, amit nem adtl fel? Fedezd fel ezt, s add fel
ezt. A sadhana annak a keresse, amit fel kell adni.
restsd ki magad teljesen.
K: Hogyan vgyhat egy bolond a blcsessgre? Az
embernek ismernie kell vgya trgyt, hogy vgyjon
r. Ha nem ismeri a Legfelsbbet, hogyan tudna r
vgyni?
M: Az ember termszetes mdon rik, s ri el a
kszltsget a megvalsulsra.
K: De mi az, ami megrleli?
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
M: Self-remembrance, awareness of 'l am' ripens
him powerfully and speedily. Give up all ideas about
yourself and simply be.
Q: I am tired of all the ways and means and skills
and tricks, of all these mental acrobatics. Is there a
way to perceive reality directly and immediately?
M: Stop making use of your mind and see what
happens. Do this one thing thoroughly. That is all.
Q: When I was younger, I had strange experiences,
short but memorable, of being nothing, just nothing,
yet fully conscious. But the danger is that one has
the desire to recreate from memory the moments
that have passed.
M: This is all imagination. In the light of
consciousness all sorts of things happen and one
need not give special importance to any. The sight
of a flower is as marvellous as the vision of God. Let
them be. Why remember them and then make
memory into a problem? Be bland about them; do
not divide them into high and low, inner and outer,
lasting and transient. Go beyond, go back to the
source, go to the self that is the same whatever
happens. Your weakness is due to your conviction
that you were born into the world. In reality the world
is ever recreated in you and by you. See everything
as emanating from the light which is the source of
your own being. You will find that in that light there is
love and infinite energy.
Q: If I am that light, why do I not know it?
M: To know, you need a knowing mind, a mind
capable of knowing. But your mind is ever on the
run, never still, never fully reflecting. How can you
see the moon in all her glory when the eye is
clouded with disease?
Q: Can we say that while the sun is the cause of the K: Mondhatjuk gy is, hogy mg a nap elidzi az
shadow one cannot see the sun in the shadow. One rnykot, nem lthatjuk a napot az rnykban? Oda
must turn round. kell fordulni.
M: Again you have introduced the trinity of the sun,
the body and shadow. There is no such division in
reality. What I am talking about has nothing to do
with dualities and trinities. Don't mentalise and
verbalise. Just see and be.
Q: Must I see, to be?
M: See what you are. Don't ask others, don't let
others tell you about yourself. Look within and see.
All the teacher can tell you is only this. There is no
need of going from one to another. The same water
is in all the wells. You just draw from the nearest. In
187
M: Az n-emlkezs, az n vagyok tudatossga
rleli meg, erteljesen s gyorsan. Add fel minden
idedat nmagadrl, s egyszeren csak legyl.
K: Elfradtam minden ttl, mdozattl, gyakorlattl
s fortlytl, mindez csupn mentlis akrobatika.
Van olyan mdszer, amellyel kzvetlenl s rgtn
szleljem a valsgot?
M: lltsd le az elmdet, s lsd, mi trtnik. Csinld
ezt az egy dolgot lelkiismeretesen. Ez minden.
K: Fiatalabb koromban voltak olyan klns, rvid,
de emlkezetes lmnyeim, hogy semmi vagyok,
abszolte semmi, mgis teljesen tudatos voltam. De
az a veszly, hogy az ember szeretn jrateremteni
az emlkeibl a pillanatot, elmlt.
M: Ez mind kpzelgs. A tudatossg fnyben
mindenfle dolgok trtnnek, s az embernek nem
kell klnsebb fontossgot tulajdontani nekik. Egy
virgnak a ltvnya ugyanolyan csodlatos, mint
Isten vzija. Hagyd ket lenni. Mirt tartod ket
emlkezetedben, majd csinlsz az emlkbl
problmt? Lgy j hozzjuk; ne oszd fel ket
magasra s alacsonyra, belsre s klsre,
maradandra s mulandra. Lpj tl, menj vissza a
forrshoz, menj az nhez, ami ugyanaz, brmi is
trtnjk. Gyarlsgod amiatti bntudatodbl ered,
hogy beleszlettl a vilgba. Valjban a vilg
rkk jrateremtdik benned, s ltalad. Lss
mindent annak a fnynek a kiradsaknt, amely
sajt lted forrsa. gy fogod tallni, hogy abban a
fnyben szeretet van, s vgtelen energia.
K: Ha n vagyok az a fny, mirt nem tudok rla?
M: A tudshoz tud elmre van szksged, az elme
tud kpessgre. De a te elmd folyton nyargal,
sohasem nyugodt, soha nem tkrz teljesen.
Hogyan lthatnd a holdat teljes dicsfnyben,
amikor a szemedet betegsg felhzi be?
M: Megint behoztad a nap, a test s az rnyk
hrmassgt. Valjban nincs ilyen elklnls.
Amirl n beszlek, annak nincs kze dualitshoz,
s hrmassgokhoz. Ne mentalizlj, s ne
verbalizlj. Csak lss s legyl.
K: Kell ltnom ahhoz, hogy legyek?
M: Lsd, hogy mi vagy. Ne msokat krdezz, ne
msok beszljenek neked nmagadrl. Nzz befel,
s lss. Mindegyik tant csak ezt mondhatja neked.
Nincs szksg r, hogy egyiket a msik utn
felkeresd. Ugyanaz a vz van minden ktban. Csak a
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
my case the water is within me and I am the water.
44. 'I am' is True, all else is Inference
Maharaj: The perceiver of the world, is he prior to Maharaj: A vilg szlelje rgebbi a vilgnl, vagy a
the world, or does he come into being along with the vilggal egytt szletik?
world?
Questioner: What a strange question. Why do you
ask such questions?
M: Unless you know the correct answer, you will not
find peace.
Q: When I wake up in the morning, the world is
already there, waiting for me. Surely the world
comes into being first. I do, but much later, at the
earliest at my birth. The body mediates between me
and the world. Without the body there would be
neither me nor the world.
M: The body appears in your mind, your mind is the
content of your consciousness; you are the
motionless witness of the river of consciousness
which changes eternally without changing you in any
way. Your own changelessness is so obvious that
you do not notice it. Have a good look at yourself
and all these misapprehensions and misconceptions
will dissolve. Just as all the little watery lives are in
water and cannot be without water, so all the
universe is in you and cannot be without you.
Q: We call it God.
M: God is only an idea in your mind. The fact is you.
The only thing you know for sure is: 'here and now I
am'. Remove, the 'here and now' the 'I am' remains,
unassailable. The word exists in memory, memory
comes into consciousness; consciousness exists in
awareness and awareness is the reflection of the
light on the waters of existence.
Q: Still I do not see how can the world be in me
when the opposite 'I am in the world' is so obvious.
M: Even to say 'I am the world, the world is me', is a
sign of ignorance. But when I keep in mind and
confirm in life my identity with the world, a power
arises in me which destroys the ignorance, burns it
up completely.
Q: Is the witness of ignorance separate from
ignorance? Is not to say: 'I am ignorant' a part of
ignorance?
188
legkzelebbibl merts. Az n esetemben a vz a
bensmben van, s n vagyok a vz.
44. Az n vagyok igazsg, minden ms
kvetkeztets
Krdez: Micsoda klns krds. Mirt teszel fel
ilyen krdseket?
M: Hacsak nem tudod a helyes vlaszt, nem fogod
megtallni a bkt.
K: Reggel mikor felbredek, a vilg mr jelen van,
s vr rem. Bizonyra a vilg szletik meg elbb.
n is megszletek, de sokkal ksbb, legkorbban a
megszletsemkor. A test kzvett kztem s a vilg
kztt. Test nlkl nem lenne sem n, sem a vilg.
M: A test az elmdben jelenik meg, elmd a
tudatossgod tartalma; te vagy a mozdulatlan tanja
a tudatossg folyjnak, amely rkk vltozik,
anlkl, hogy te brmilyen mdon vltoznl. A te
sajt vltozatlansgod olyan nyilvnval, hogy nem
is veszed szre. Vizsgld meg jl nmagad, s
mindezen tveds s flrerts el fog oszlani. Mint
ahogy a kis vzi lnyek csak vzben lhetnek, s
vzen kvl nem, gy az egsz univerzum is csak
benned ltezhet, s rajtad kvl nem.
K: Ezt Istennek nevezzk.
M: Isten csak egy elmdben lv idea. A tny te
vagy. Az egyetlen dolog, amit biztosan tudsz: itt s
most n vagyok. Hagyd el az itt s most-ot, s az
n vagyok marad, megcfolhatatlanul. A vilg az
emlkezetben van, az emlkezet a tudatossgban; a
tudatossg az bersgben van, s az bersg a
fny tkrzdse a ltezs vizein.
K: Mg mindig nem ltom, hogy a vilg hogyan lehet
bennem, miutn az ezzel ellenttes llts, az n a
vilgban vagyok, annyira nyilvnval.
M: Mg az is a tudatlansg jele, ha azt mondod,
hogy n a vagyok a vilg, a vilg n vagyok. De
amikor elmmben tartom, s megszilrdtom az
letben a vilggal val azonossgomat, egy er
bred bennem, amely lerombolja a tudatlansgot,
teljesen felgeti azt.
K: A tudatlansg tanja s a tudatlansg
elklnlnek egymstl? Nem azt kell mondanunk
inkbb, hogy: a tudatlan vagyok a tudatlansg
rsze?
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
M: Of course. All I can say truly is: 'I am', all else is
inference. But the inference has become a habit.
Destroy all habits of thinking and seeing. The sense
'I am' is the manifestation of a deeper cause, which
you may call self, God, reality or by any other name.
The 'I am' is in the world; but it is the key which can
open the door out of the world. The moon dancing
on the water is seen in the water, but it is caused by
the moon in the sky and not by the water.
Q: Still the main point seems to escape me. l can
admit that the world in which I live and move and
have my being is of my own creation, a projection of
myself, of my imagination, on the unknown world,
the world as it is, the world of 'absolute matter',
whatever this matter may be. The world of my own
creation may be quite unlike the ultimate, the real
world, just like the cinema screen is quite unlike the
pictures projected onto it. Nevertheless, this
absolute world exists, quite independent of myself.
M: Quite so, the world of Absolute Reality, onto
which your mind has projected a world of relative
unreality is independent of yourself, for the very
simple reason that it is yourself.
Q: Is there no contradiction in terms? How can
independence prove identity?
M: Examine the motion of change and you will see.
What can change while you do not change, can be
said to be independent of you. But what is
changeless must be one with whatever else is
changeless. For, duality implies interaction and
interaction meats change. In other words, the
absolutely material and the absolutely spiritual, the
totally objective and the totally subjective are
identical, both in substance and essence.
Q: Like in a tri-dimensional picture, the light forms its K: Mint ahogy a hromdimenzis kpek esetben is,
own screen.
M: Any comparison will do. The main point to grasp
is that you have projected onto yourself a world of
your own imagination, based on memories, on
desires and fears, and that you have imprisoned
yourself in it. Break the spell and be free.
Q: How does one break the spell?
M: Assert your independence in thought and action.
After all, all hangs on your faith in yourself, on the
conviction that what you see and hear, think and feel
is real. Why not question your faith? No doubt, this
world is painted by you on the screen of
consciousness and is entirely your own private
189
M: Termszetesen. Az egyetlen megbzhat
igazsg: n vagyok, minden ms kvetkeztets. De
a kvetkeztets szokss vlt. Semmists meg
minden gondolkodssal s keresssel kapcsolatos
szokst. Az n vagyok rzse egy mlyebb ok
megnyilatkozsa, amit nevezhetsz gy, hogy n,
Isten, valsg, vagy lehet brmilyen ms neve. Az
n vagyok a vilgban van; de ez a kulcs, amely ki
tudja nyitni a vilgbl kivezet ajtt. A vzen tncol
holdfny a vzen lthat, de az gen lv hold az
okozja, s nem a vz.
K: Azt hiszem, mg mindig nem rtem a lnyeget. El
tudom fogadni, hogy a vilg, amelyben lek s
mozgok, s lem az letem, az n teremtmnyem, a
sajt kivettsem, a kpzeletem kivettse az
ismeretlen vilgra, a valban ltez vilgra, az
abszolt anyag vilgra, brmi is ez az anyag. Az
ltalam teremtett vilg teljesen eltrhet a vgs, a
valdi vilgtl, mint ahogy egy mozivszon is
teljesen eltr a rvettett kpektl. Mindazonltal, ez
az abszolt vilg ltezik, tlem teljesen fggetlenl.
M: Igazad van, az Abszolt Valsg vilga, amelyre
az elmd rvettette a viszonylagos valtlansg
vilgt, nmagadtl fggetlen, azon egyszer oknl
fogva, hogy az te nmagad vagy.
K: Nincs itt valamilyen ellentmonds? A
fggetlensg hogyan bizonythatn az azonossgot?
M: A vltozsnak a motvumt vizsgld, s meg
fogod rteni. Ami megvltozhat, mikzben te nem
vltozol, az tled fggetlennek mondhat. De ami
vltozatlan, annak azonosnak kell lennie minden
egyb vltozatlannal. Teht a dualits klcsnhatst
implikl, s a klcsnhats vltozst jelent. Ms
szavakkal, az abszolt materilis s az abszolt
spiritulis, a totlisan objektv s a totlisan
szubjektv azonosak, mind tartalmukat, mind
lnyegket illeten.
a fny kialaktja sajt vettvsznt.
M: Ahhoz hasonltod, amihez akarod. A lnyeg,
hogy magadra vettetted sajt kpzeleted vilgt, az
emlkezet alapjn, a vgyak s flelmek alapjn, s
belbrtnzted magad. Trd meg a varzst, s
lgy szabad.
K: Hogy trik meg a varzs?
M: Erstsd gondolkozsod s cselekvsed
fggetlensgt. Vgl is, minden azon mlik, hogy
hiszel nmagadnak, hogy meg vagy rla gyzdve,
hogy amit ltsz s hallasz, gondolsz s rzel, az
valsg. Mirt nem krdjelezed meg hitedet? Nem
ktsges, ezt a vilgot te festetted a tudatossg
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
world. Only your sense 'I am', though in the world, is
not of the world. By no effort of logic or imagination
can you change the 'I am' into 'I am not'. In the very
denial of your being you assert it. Once you realise
that the world is your own projection, you are free of
it. You need not free yourself of a world that does
not exist, except in your own imagination. However
is the picture, beautiful or ugly, you are painting it
and you are not bound by it. Realise that there is
nobody to force it on you, that it is due to the habit of
taking the imaginary to be real. See the imaginary as
imaginary and be free of fear.
Just as the colours in this carpet are brought out by
light but light is not the colour, so is the world
caused by you but you are not the world.
That which creates and sustains the world, you may
call it God or providence, but ultimately you are the
proof that God exists, not the other way round. For,
before any question about God can be put, you must
be there to put it.
Q: God is an experience in time, but the experiencer K: Isten egy idbeni tapasztals, de a tapasztal
is timeless. idtlen.
M: Even the experiencer is secondary. Primary is
the infinite expanse of consciousness, the eternal
possibility, the immeasurable potential of all that
was, is, and will be. When you look at anything, it is
the ultimate you see, but you imagine that you see a
cloud or a tree.
Learn to look without imagination, to listen without
distortion: that is all. Stop attributing names and
shapes to the essentially nameless and formless,
realise that every mode of perception is subjective,
that what is seen or heard, touched or smelt, felt or
thought, expected or imagined, is in the mind and
not in reality, and you will experience peace and
freedom from fear.
Even the sense of 'I am' is composed of the pure
light and the sense of being. The 'I' is there even
without the 'am'. So is the pure light there whether
you say 'I' or not. Become aware of that pure light
and you will never lose it. The beingness in being,
the awareness in consciousness, the interest in
every experience -- that is not describable, yet
perfectly accessible, for there is nothing else.
Q: You talk of reality directly -- as the all-pervading,
ever-present, eternal, all-knowing, all-energizing first
cause. There are other teachers, who refuse to
discuss reality at all. They say reality is beyond the
mind while all discussions are within the realm of the
190
vsznra, s teljes egszben a te sajt privt
vilgod. Egyedl az n vagyok rzsed az, amely
jllehet a vilgban van, nem a vilg. Semmilyen
logikai vagy kpzeleti erfesztssel nem
cserlheted fel az n vagyok-ot, n nem vagyok-
ra. A tagadssal valjban ltezsedet ersted.
Amint felismered, hogy a vilg a te kivettsed,
szabadd vlsz tle. Nem kell felszabadtanod
nmagad egy olyan vilgtl, amely nem ltezik, csak
a te sajt kpzeletedben. Brmilyen is a kp, szp,
avagy csnya, te fested azt, s nem vagy ltala
megktve. Ismerd fel, hogy senki sincs, aki rd
erszakoln, hogy az a kpzelet valsgnak
tartsnak szoksbl ered. Lsd a kpzeletbelit
kpzeletbelinek, s szabadulj meg a flelemtl.
Mint ahogy ennek a sznyegnek a sznei fnybl
erednek, de a fny nem a szn, gy vagy a vilgnak
te az okozja, de te nem vagy a vilg.
Azt, ami teremti s fenntartja a vilgot, nevezheted
Istennek, vagy gondviselsnek, de vgs soron te
vagy a bizonytka, hogy Isten ltezik, nem lehet
mskpp. Mert, mieltt brmilyen krds feltehetnl
Istenrl, neked ott kell lenned, hogy feltedd.
M: Mg a tapasztal is msodlagos. Ami elsdleges,
az a tudatossg vgtelen kiterjedse, az rk
lehetsg, a mrhetetlen potencilja mindennek,
ami volt, van s lesz. Amikor rnzel valamire, a
vgs az, amit ltsz, de te azt kpzeled, hogy felht,
vagy ft ltsz.
Tanulj meg kpzelds nlkl nzni, torzts nlkl
hallani: ez minden. Hagyd abba a lnyegt tekintve
nv- s formanlklinek nvvel s formval val
jellemzst, ismerd fel, hogy az szlels mindenfle
mdja szubjektv, hogy amit ltsz, vagy hallasz,
tapintasz, vagy szagolsz, rzel, vagy gondolsz,
elvrsz, vagy elkpzelsz, az az elmben van, s
nem a valsgban, s meg fogod tapasztalni a
bkt s a flelem nlkli letet.
Mg az n vagyok rzst is a tiszta fny s a lt
rzse alkotjk. Az n mg a vagyok nlkl is van.
Ugyangy tiszta fny is van, akr mondod, hogy n,
akr nem. Vlj tudatoss erre a tiszta fnyre, s
soha nem fogod azt elveszteni. A ltezsg a
ltben, az bersg a tudatossgban, az rdeklds
a tapasztalatokban ami nem lerhat, mgis
tkletesen hozzfrhet, mert semmi ms nincs.
K: Kzvetlen valsgrl beszlsz mint a mindent
betlt, mindig jelenlv, mindentud, mindent
gerjeszt els okrl. Ms tantk azt is elutastjk,
hogy egyltaln beszljenek a valsgrl. Azt
mondjk, hogy a valsg az elmn tl van,
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
mind, which is the home of the unreal. Their
approach is negative; they pinpoint the unreal and
thus go beyond it into the real.
M: The difference lies in the words only. After all,
when l talk of the real, I describe it as not-unreal,
space-less, time-less, cause-less, beginning-less
and end-less. It comes to the same. As long as it
leads to enlightenment, what does the wording
matter? Does it matter whether you pull the cart or
push it, as long as it is kept rolling? You may feel
attracted to reality at one time and repelled from the
false at another; these are only moods which
alternate; both are needed for perfect freedom. You
may go one way or another -- but each time it will be
the right way at the moment; just go whole-
heartedly, don't waste time on doubting or hesitating.
Many kinds of food are needed to make the child
grow, but the act of eating is the same. Theoretically
-- all approaches are good. In practice, and at a
given moment, you proceed by one road only.
Sooner or later you are bound to discover that if you
really want to find, you must dig at one place only --
within.
Neither your body nor mind can give you what you
seek -- the being and knowing your self and the
great peace that comes with it.
Q: Surely there is something valid and valuable in
every approach.
M: In each case the value lies in bringing you to the
need of seeking within. Playing with various
approaches may be due to resistance to going
within, to the fear of having to abandon the illusion of
being something or somebody in particular. To find
water you do not dig small pits all over the place, but
drill deep in one place only. Similarly, to find your
self you have to explore yourself. When you realise
that you are the light of the world, you will also
realise that you are the love of it; that to know is to
love and to love is to know.
Of all the affections the love of oneself comes first.
Your love of the world is the reflection of your love of
yourself, for your world is of your own creation. Light
and love are impersonal, but they are reflected in
your mind as knowing and wishing oneself well. We
are always friendly towards ourselves. But not
always wise. A Yogi is a man whose goodwill is
allied to wisdom.
191
mikzben minden beszd az elme birodalmn bell
van, ami a nem valdi otthona. Az megkzeltsk
negatv; a nem valdit tmadjk s gy jutnak azon
tl, a valsgba.
M: Klnbsg csak a szavak tern van. Vgl is,
amikor n a valsgrl beszlek, gy rom azt le,
mint ami nem valtlan, tr nlkli, idtlen, alaptalan,
kezdet nlkli s vg nlkli. Mindkett ugyanoda
vezet. Amg megvilgosodshoz vezet, mirt szmt
a megfogalmazs? Szmt, hogy hzod a talicskt,
vagy tolod, amg az gurul? rezhetsz vonzdst a
valsggal, s ugyanakkor elutastst a hamissal
kapcsolatban; ezek csak hangulatok, amelyek
vltakoznak; mindegyikre szksg van a tkletes
megszabadulshoz. Haladhatsz egyik ton, vagy
msikon de minden esetben az lesz a megfelel
t, az adott pillanatban; csak haladj teljes szvvel, ne
pazarold az idt ktkedsre s bizonytalankodsra.
A gyermek felnvekedshez sokfle telre van
szksg, de az evs aktusa ugyanaz. Elvileg
minden megkzelts j. A gyakorlatban, s az adott
pillanatban, csak egyetlen ton haladsz. Elbb vagy
utbb fl kell, hogy fedezd, hogy ha valban tallni
akarsz, egyetlen helyen kell sni csupn bell.
Sem a tested, sem az elmd nem tudja megadni,
amit keresel a ltet s nmagad ismerett, s a
hatalmas bkt, ami vele jr.
K: Bizonyra mindegyik megkzelts rvnyes s
rtkes bizonyos fokig.
M: Mindegyiknek az esetben az az rtk, hogy
elvezet tged a bels keress ignyhez. Lehet,
hogy a befel val halads irnti ellenllsod miatt
jtszol klnbz megkzeltsekkel, azrt, mert
flsz feladni az illzit, hogy valami vagy valaki
egyedi vagy. Ahhoz, hogy vizet tallj, nem sok kis
gdrt kell snod, hanem csak egyetlen helyen kell
lefrnod. Ugyangy kell ned megtallshoz
felfedezned nmagad. Amikor felismered, hogy te
vagy a vilgnak a fnye, azt is fel fogod ismerni,
hogy te vagy annak szeretete is; hogy ismerni azt
jelenti szeretni, s szeretni azt jelenti, hogy ismerni.
Az sszes szeretet kzl az nszeretet az elssg.
A vilg irnti szereteted nmagad szeretetnek a
tkrkpe, mert a vilg a te sajt teremtmnyed. A
fny s a szeretet szemlytelenek, de elmdben
ismeretknt, s nmagad irnti val jkvnsgknt
tkrzdnek. Mindig jakaratak vagyunk
nmagunkkal szemben. De nem vagyunk mindig
blcsek. A Yogi az az ember, akinek jakarata s
blcsessge azonos mrtk.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok

45. What Comes and Goes has no Being 45. Ami jn s megy, annak nincs lte
Questioner: I have come to be with you, rather than Krdez: Inkbb azrt jttem, hogy a kzeledben
to listen. Little can be said in words, much more can legyek, mint hallgatni. Beszlgethetnk egy keveset,
be conveyed in silence. de csendben sokkal tbb tadhat.

Maharaj: First words, then silence. One must be Maharaj: Elszr szavak, aztn csend. Meg kell rni
ripe for silence. a csendre.

Q: Can I live in silence? K: Tudok csendben lni?

M: Unselfish work leads to silence, for when you
work selflessly, you don't need to ask for help.
Indifferent to results, you are willing to work with the
most inadequate means. You do not care to be
much gifted and well equipped. Nor do you ask for
recognition and assistance. You just do what needs
be done, leaving success and failure to the
unknown. For everything is caused by innumerable
factors, of which your personal endeavour is but
one. Yet such is the magic of man's mind and heart
that the most improbable happens when human will
and love pull together.
M: Az nzetlen munka csendhez vezet, mert amikor
nzetlenl dolgozol, nincs szksged r, hogy krj.
Ha kzmbs vagy az eredmnyek irnt, ksz vagy
a legalkalmatlanabb eszkzkkel is dolgozni. Nem
trdsz azzal, hogy nagyon rts hozz, s hogy j
felszerelsed legyen. Nem krsz sem elismerst, se
tmogatst. Csak teszed, amit tenned kell, a sikert
s a kudarcot az ismeretlenre bzva. Mert
mindennek szmtalan oka van, amelyek kzl a te
szemlyes erfesztsed csak az egyik ok. Az
emberi elme s szv mgis annyira csodlatos, hogy
amikor az emberi akarat s szeretet
egyttmkdnek, a legvalszntlenebb is
megtrtnik.

Q: What is wrong with asking for help when the work K: Mirt baj, hogy segtsget krek, amikor sok a
is worthy? munka?

M: Where is the need of asking? It merely shows
weakness and anxiety. Work on, and the universe
will work with you. After all the very idea of doing the
right thing comes to you from the unknown. Leave it
to the unknown as far as the results go, just go
through the necessary movements. You are merely
one of the links in the long chain of causation.
Fundamentally, all happens in the mind only. When
you work for something whole-heartedly and
steadily, it happens, for it is the function of the mind
to make things happen. In reality nothing is lacking
and nothing is needed, all work is on the surface
only. In the depths there is perfect peace. All your
problems arise because you have defined and
therefore limited yourself. When you do not think
yourself to be this or that, all conflict ceases. Any
attempt to do something about your problems is
bound to fail, for what is caused by desire can be
undone only in freedom from desire. You have
enclosed yourself in time and space, squeezed
yourself into the span of a lifetime and the volume of
a body and thus created the innumerable conflicts of
life and death, pleasure and pain, hope and fear.
You cannot be rid of problems without abandoning
illusions.
M: Honnan a krs szksglete? Ami pusztn csak
gyengesget, s aggodalmat jelez. Cselekedj, s az
univerzum veled fog cselekedni. Tulajdonkppen a
helyes cselekvs idejt az ismeretlenbl kapod.
Ami az eredmnyeket illeti, hagyd r az
ismeretlenre, te csak add t magad a szksges
mozgsoknak. Te pusztn a lncszemek egyike
vagy az oksg hossz lncban. Lnyegt tekintve
minden az elmben trtnik csupn. Amikor
valamirt teljes szvvel, s komolyan dolgozol, akkor
az megtrtnik, mert az elmnek az a funkcija,
hogy a dolgokat megtrtntt tegye. Valjban
semmi nem hinyzik, s semmire nincs szksg,
minden munka a felsznen zajlik csupn. A
mlysgekben tkletes bke honol. Minden
problmd azrt merl fel, mert meghatroztad,
ezltal korltoztad magad. Amikor nem ekknt vagy
akknt gondolsz nmagadra, minden konfliktus
megsznik. Minden olyan ksrletnek meg kell
hisulnia, hogy csinlj valamit a problmiddal, mert
amit vgy okozott, azt meg nem trtntt tenni csak
vgymentesen lehet. Idbe s trbe zrtad magad,
beleprselted magad egy lettartamba, s a test
volumenbe, s ezzel megszmllhatatlan let s
hall, lvezet s fjdalom, remny s flelem
konfliktust teremtettl. Nem tudsz a problmktl
megszabadulni az illzik elhagysa nlkl.

Q: A person is naturally limited. K: A szemly termszetbl kifolylag korltozott.

M: There is no such thing as a person. There are M: Nincs olyan dolog, mint szemly. Csak
only restrictions and limitations. The sum total of megszortsok, s korltozsok vannak. Ezek

192
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
these defines the person. You think you know
yourself when you know what you are. But you
never know who you are. The person merely
appears to be, like the space within the pot appears
to have the shape and volume and smell of the pot.
See that you are not what you believe yourself to be.
Fight with all the strength at your disposal against
the idea that you are nameable and describable.
You are not. Refuse to think of yourself in terms of
this or that. There is no other way out of misery,
which you have created for yourself through blind
acceptance without investigation. Suffering is a call
for enquiry, all pain needs investigation. Don't be too
lazy to think.
Q: Activity is the essence of reality. There is no
virtue in not working. Along with thinking something
must be done.
M: To work in the world is hard, to refrain from all
unnecessary work is even harder.
Q: For the person I am all this seems impossible.
M: What do you know about yourself? You can only
be what you are in reality; you can only appear what
you are not. You have never moved away from
perfection. All idea of self-improvement is
conventional and verbal. As the sun knows not
darkness, so does the self know not the non-self. It
is the mind, which by knowing the other, becomes
the other. Yet the mind is nothing else but the self. It
is the self that becomes the other, the notself, and
yet remains the self. All else is an assumption. Just
as a cloud obscures the sun without in any way
affecting it, so does assumption obscure reality
without destroying it. The very idea of destruction of
reality is ridiculous; the destroyer is always more
real than the destroyed. Reality is the ultimate
destroyer. All separation, every kind of
estrangement and alienation is false. All is one --
this is the ultimate solution of every conflict.
Q: How is it that in spite of so much instruction and
assistance we make no progress?
M: As long as we imagine ourselves to be separate
personalities, one quite apart from another, we
cannot grasp reality which is essentially impersonal.
First we must know ourselves as witnesses only,
dimensionless and timeless centres of observation,
and then realise that immense ocean of pure
awareness, which is both mind and matter and
beyond both.
Q: Whatever I may be in reality, yet I feel myself to K: Akrmi vagyok valjban, mgis kicsinek s
be a small and separate person, one amongst many. elklnlt szemlynek rzem magam, egynek a sok
193
sszessge hatrozza meg a szemlyt. Azt
gondolod, akkor ismered nmagad, ha tudod, hogy
mi vagy. De soha nem tudod, hogy ki vagy. A
szemly csak ltszlag ltezik, az ednyben lv
trhez hasonlan, amely felveszi az edny formjt,
volument s szagt. Lsd, hogy nem az vagy,
aminek lenni hiszed nmagad. Kzdj minden
erddel, hogy megszabadulj az idetl, hogy
megnevezhet s lerhat vagy. Nem vagy az.
Utastsd el, hogy ekknt, vagy akknt gondolj
nmagadra. Nincs ms kit a szenvedsbl,
amelyet te teremtettl nmagadnak vak elfogads
rvn, vizsglat nlkl. A szenveds a kutatsra
val felhvs, minden fjdalmat meg kell vizsglni.
Ne legyl tlsgosan lusta gondolkodni.
K: Tevkenysg a valsg lnyege. Nem ernyes
dolog nem dolgozni. A gondolkods mellett tenni is
kell valamit.
M: Munklkodni a vilgban nehz dolog, tartzkodni
az sszes szksgtelen munktl mg nehezebb.
K: A szemly szmra, aki vagyok, mindez
lehetetlensgnek tnik.
M: Mit tudsz te nmagadrl? Csak az lehetsz, ami
valban vagy; annak csak annak ltszdhatsz, ami
nem vagy. Soha nem tvolodtl el a tkletessgtl.
Az nfejleszts szoksszerek, s verblisak. Ahogy
a nap nem ismeri a sttsget, gy az n sem ismeri
a nem-nt. Az elme az, amely a msikat
megismerve, a msikk vlik. Mgis, az elme semmi
ms, mint az n. Az n az, ami a msikk vlik, a
nem-nn, s mgis az n marad. Minden ms
feltevs. Mint ahogy a felh sincs semmilyen
hatssal a napra, amikor elrejti, gy a felttelezs is
a nlkl rejti el a valsgot, hogy megsemmisten
azt. A valsg megsemmistsnek az ideja
valjban kptelensg; a pusztt mindig sokkal
valdibb, mint az elpuszttott. A valsg a vgs
pusztt. Minden elklnls, mindenfle
eltvolods s elidegeneds hamis. Minden egy
ez a vgs megolds minden konfliktusra.
K: Miknt van az, hogy olyan sok tants s
segtsg ellenre egy helyben topogunk?
M: Amg elklnlt, egymstl teljesen klnll
szemlyeknek kpzeljk magunkat, addig nem
tudjuk megragadni a valsgot, amely lnyegben
szemlytelen. Elszr nmagunkat csupn
tanknt, a megfigyels kiterjeds nlkli, s idtlen
centrumaknt kell ismernnk, s akkor felismerjk
benne a tiszta ber-tudatossg roppant cenjt,
amely azonos mind az elmvel, mind az anyaggal,
s mindkettn tli.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
M: Your being a person is due to the illusion of
space and time; you imagine yourself to be at a
certain point occupying a certain volume; your
personality is due to your self-identification with the
body. Your thoughts and feelings exist in
succession, they have their span in time and make
you imagine yourself, because of memory, as having
duration. In reality time and space exist in you; you
do not exist in them. They are modes of perception,
but they are not the only ones. Time and space are
like words written on paper; the paper is real, the
words merely a convention. How old are you?
Q: Forty-eight.
M: What makes you say forty-eight? What makes
you say: I am here? Verbal habits born from
assumptions. The mind creates time and space and
takes its own creations for reality. All is here and
now, but we do not see it. Truly, all is in me and by
me. There is nothing else. The very idea of 'else' is a
disaster and a calamity.
Q: What is the cause of personification, of self-
limitation in time and space?
M: That which does not exist cannot have a cause.
There is no such thing as a separate person. Even
taking the empirical point of view, it is obvious that
everything is the cause of everything, that everything
is as it is, because the entire universe is as it is.
Q: Yet personality must have a cause.
M: How does personality, come into being? By
memory. By identifying the present with the past and
projecting it into the future. Think of yourself as
momentary, without past and future and your
personality dissolves.
Q: Does not 'I am' remain?
M: The word 'remain' does not apply. 'I am' is ever
afresh. You do not need to remember in order to be.
As a matter of fact, before you can experience
anything, there must be the sense of being. At
present your being is mixed up with experiencing. All
you need is to unravel being from the tangle of
experiences. Once you have known pure being,
without being this or that, you will discern it among
experiences and you will no longer be misled by
names and forms.
Self-limitation is the very essence of personality.
Q: How can I become universal?
194
kzl.
M: Lnyed a tr s id illzija miatt szemly; egy
meghatrozott trfogatot elfoglal meghatrozott
egysgnek kpzeled magad; szemlyisged a
testtel val nazonostsod kvetkezmnye. Sajt
idkzkben sorjz gondolataid s rzseid,
valamint emlkezeted miatt kpzeled nmagadat
idtartammal rendelkeznek. Valjban az id s a
tr benned vannak; nem te vagy bennk. szlelsi
mdok, de nem az egyedliek. Id s tr olyanok,
mint a paprra vetett szavak; a papr a valsg, a
szavak pusztn konvenci. Hny ves vagy?
K: Negyvennyolc.
M: Mi miatt mondod, hogy negyvennyolc? Mi miatt
mondod: itt vagyok? A verblis szoksok
felttelezsekbl szlettek. Az elme idt s teret
teremt, majd sajt teremtmnyeit valsgnak tekinti.
Minden itt s most van, de mi ezt nem ltjuk.
Valjban minden bennem, s ltalam van. Nincs
semmi ms. A ms ideja igazi csaps s
szerencstlensg.
K: Mi okozza a megszemlyeslst, az id- s
trbeli nkorltozst?
M: Ami nem ltezik, nem lehet oka. Nem ltezik
olyan dolog, mint klnll szemly. Mg a
tapasztalati szempontokat tekintve is nyilvnval,
hogy minden mindennek az oka, hogy minden olyan,
amilyen, mert az egsz univerzum olyan, amilyen.
K: A szemlyisgnek mgiscsak kell, hogy oka
legyen.
M: Hogyan szletik a szemlyisg? Az emlkezet
rvn. A jelennek a mlttal val azonostsval, s a
jvbe val kivettsvel. Gondold magad
pillanatnyinak, mlt s jv nlklinek, s
szemlyisged szertefoszlik.
K: Az n vagyok nem marad meg?
M: A megmarad sz hasznlata itt nem alkalmas.
Az n vagyok mindig j. Nincs szksged
emlkezetre ahhoz, hogy legyl. Valjban, a
tapasztalst meg kell, hogy elzze a lt rzse.
Jelenleg a lted ssze van keveredve a
tapasztalssal. Mindssze annyit kell tenned, hogy
kibogozod a ltet a tapasztalatok gubancbl. Amint
eljutsz a tiszta, ez vagy az nlkli lt ismeretig,
meg fogod azt klnbztetni a tapasztalatoktl, s
nem leszel tbb nevektl s formktl flrevezetve.
Az n-korltozs a szemlyisg valdi lnyege.
K: Hogyan vlhatok egyetemess?
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
M: But you are universal. You need not and you
cannot become what you are already. Only cease
imagining yourself to be the particular. What comes
and goes has no being. It owes its very appearance
to reality. You know that there is a world, but does
the world know you? All knowledge flows from you,
as all being and all joy. Realise that you are the
eternal source and accept all as your own. Such
acceptance is true love.
Q: All you say sounds very beautiful. But how has
one to make it into a way of living?
M: Having never left the house you are asking for
the way home. Get rid of wrong ideas, that is all.
Collecting right ideas also will take you nowhere.
Just cease imagining.
Q: It is not a matter of achievement, but of
understanding.
M: Don't try to understand. Enough if you do not
misunderstand. Don't rely on your mind for
liberation. It is the mind that brought you into
bondage. Go beyond it altogether.
What is beginningless cannot have a cause. It is not
that you knew what you are and then you have
forgotten. Once you know, you cannot forget.
Ignorance has no beginning, but can have an end.
Enquire: who is ignorant and ignorance will dissolve
like a dream. The world is full of contradictions,
hence your search for harmony and peace. These
you cannot find in the world, for the world is the child
of chaos. To find order you must search within. The
world comes into being only when you are born in a
body. No body -- no world. First enquire whether you
are the body. The understanding of the world will
come later.
Q: What you say sounds convincing, but of what use K: Meggyznek hangzik, amit mondasz, de mi a
is it to the private person, who knows itself to be in haszna egy magnyszemly szmra, aki nmagt
the world and of the world? a vilgban lnek, s a vilgnak tudja?
M: Millions eat bread, but few know all about wheat.
And only those who know can improve the bread.
Similarly, only those who know the self, who have
seen beyond the world, can improve the world. Their
value to private persons is immense, for they are
their only hope of salvation. What is in the world
cannot save the world; if you really care to help the
world you must step out of it.
Q: But can one step out of the world?
M: Who was born first, you or the world? As long as
you give first place to the world, you are bound by it;
once you realise, beyond all trace of doubt that the
195
M: De hiszen egyetemes vagy. Nem kell, s nem
tudsz azz vlni, ami mr vagy. Csak hagyd abba,
hogy elklnltnek kpzeled nmagad. Ami jn s
megy, annak nincs lte. Ez hozztartozik a valsg
igazi megjelenshez. Te tudod, hogy van vilg, de
a vilg tud-e rlad? Minden tuds tled ered, mint
ahogy minden lt s rm is. Ismerd fel, hogy te
vagy az rk forrs, s fogadj el mindent, mint a te
sajtodat. Az ilyen elfogads az igazi szeretet.
K: Mindaz, amit mondasz, nagyon szpen hangzik.
De hogyan lehet letmdd tenni?
M: Soha el sem hagyva a hzat, azt krdezed, hogy
merre van hazafel. Tvoltsd el a rossz idekat, ez
minden. A j idek gyjtse sem vezet sehov.
Csak hagyd abba a kpzeldst.
K: Ez nem vghezvitel, hanem megrts krdse.
M: Ne prblkozz a megrtsvel. Elegend, ha
nem rted flre. Ne tmaszkodj az elmdre a
megszabaduls rdekben. pphogy az elme
okozta a ktelkeidet. Lpj rajta tl teljesen.
Ami kezdet nlkli, annak nem lehet oka. Nem arrl
van sz, hogy tudtad, ki vagy, aztn elfelejtetted. Ha
egyszer tudsz rla, nem tudod elfelejteni. A
tudatlansgnak nincs kezdete, de vget rhet.
Kutasd: ki tudatlan, s tudatlansgod szertefoszlik,
mint egy lom. A vilg tele van ellentmondsokkal,
ebbl ereden keresed a harmnit s a bkt.
Ezeket nem tallhatod meg a vilgban, mert a vilg
a kosz gyermeke. Ha r akarsz tallni a rendre,
akkor bell kell keresned. A vilg csak akkor szletik
meg, amikor megszlettl egy testben. Ha nincs test
nincs vilg. Elszr azt vizsgld, hogy te vagy-e a
test. A vilg megrtse ksbb fog kvetkezni.
M: Millik esznek kenyeret, de kevesen vannak, akik
mindent tudnak a bzrl. s csak akik ismerik,
tudjk tkletesteni a kenyeret. Hasonlkppen,
csak akik ismerik az nt, akik belttak a vilg mg,
tudjk megjavtani a vilgot. Az rtkk
mrhetetlen a magnszemly szmra, mert k
csak az dvzlskben remnykednek. A vilgban
lv nem mentheti meg a vilgot; ha valban
trdsz a vilg megmentsvel, ki kell belle lpned.
K: De ki tud-e lpni az ember a vilgbl?
M: Ki szletett elbb, te, vagy a vilg? Amg a
vilgot teszed az els helyre, addig meg vagy ktve
ltala; amint felismered, hogy a vilg a ktsg
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
world is in you and not you in the world, you are out
of it. Of course your body remains in the world and
of the world, but you are not deluded by it. All
scriptures say that before the world was, the Creator
was. Who knows the Creator? He alone who was
before the Creator, your own real being, the source
of all the worlds with their creators.
Q: All you say is held together by your assumption
that the world is your own projection. You admit that
you mean your personal, subjective world, the world
given you through your senses and your mind. In
that sense each one of us lives in a world of his own
projection. These private worlds hardly touch each
other and they arise from and merge into the 'I am'
at their centre. But surely behind these private
worlds there must be a common objective world, of
which the private worlds are mere shadows. Do you
deny the existence of such an objective world,
common to all?
M: Reality is neither subjective nor objective, neither
mind nor matter, neither time nor space. These
divisions need somebody to whom to happen, a
conscious separate centre. But reality is all and
nothing, the totality and the exclusion, the fullness
and the emptiness, fully consistent, absolutely
paradoxical. You cannot speak about it, you can
only lose your self in it. When you deny reality to
anything, you come to a residue which cannot be
denied.
All talk of gnana is a sign of ignorance. It is the mind
that imagines that it does not know and then comes
to know. Reality knows nothing of these contortions.
Even the idea of God as the Creator is false. Do I
owe my being to any other being? Because I am, all
is.
Q: How can it be? A child is born into the world, not
the world into the child. The world is old and the
child is new.
M: The child is born into your world. Now, were you
born into your world, or did your world appear to
you? To be born means to create a world round
yourself as the centre. But do you ever create
yourself? Or did anyone create you? Everyone
creates a world for himself and lives in it, imprisoned
by one's ignorance. All we have to do is to deny
reality to our prison.
Q: Just as the waking state exists in seed form
during sleep, so does the world the child creates on
being born exist before its birth. With whom does the
seed lie?
196
minden nyoma nlkl benned van, s nem te vagy a
vilgban, kvl kerltl rajta. Termszetesen a tested
a vilgban, s a vilg marad, de ez nem tveszt
meg tged. Minden szent knyvben az ll, hogy
mieltt a vilg lett volna, a Teremt volt. Ki ismeri a
Teremtt? egyedl, aki mr a Teremt eltt volt, a
te valdi lnyed, az egsz vilg forrsa, annak
teremtivel egytt.
K: Minden, amirl beszlsz azon felttelezsedre
pl, hogy a vilg a te sajt kivettsed. Elismered,
hogy egy szemlyes, szubjektv vilgra gondolsz,
egy rzkszerveid s elmd ltal kzvettett vilgra.
Ebben az rtelemben mindegyiknk a sajt kivettett
vilgban l. Ezek a privt vilgok alig rintkeznek
egymssal, s keletkezsk s n vagyok-ba
olvadsuk azok centrumban trtnik. De
nyilvnval, hogy e privt vilgok mgtt lennie kell
egy kzs objektv vilgnak, amelynek a privt
vilgok csupn rnykai. Elutastod a ltezst egy
ilyen objektv vilgnak, amely mindenre nzve
kzs?
M: A valsg se szubjektv, se objektv, sem elme,
sem anyag, se id, se tr. Ilyen felosztsokra annak
van szksge, aki szmra a tudatossg egy
klnll centrum. De a valsg minden s semmi,
a totalits s a kizrs, a teljessg s az ressg.
Nem tudsz beszlni rla, csak nedet tudod
elveszteni benne. Amikor tagadod valaminek a
valsgt, a fennmarad rszt nem tudod
elutastani.
Minden beszd, ami a gnanrl szl, a tudatlansg
jele. Az elme azt kpzeli, hogy nem ismer, majd
megismersre jut. A valsg semmit nem tud
ezekrl a torzulsokrl. Mg az az idea is hamis,
miszerint Isten lenne a Teremt. Hozz tartozik-e az
n ltem brmilyen ms lthez? Azrt van minden,
mert n vagyok.
K: Ez hogy lehetsges? A gyermek szletik a
vilgba, nem a vilg a gyermekbe. A vilg rgi, s a
gyermek j.
M: A gyermek beleszletik a te vilgodba. Na mr
most, te szlettl bele a te vilgodba, vagy a te
vilgod jelent meg a te szmodra? Szletni annyit
jelent, mint teremteni egy vilgot nmagad, mint
centrum kr. De teremted-e valaha is nmagad?
Vagy valaki megteremtett tged? Mindenki teremt
nmagnak egy vilgot, s abban l, tudattalansga
ltal bebrtnzve. Mindssze annyit kell tennnk,
hogy tagadjuk brtnnk valsgt.
K: Ahogy az alv llapotban benne van csra
formjban az brenlti llapot, ugyangy van
benne a vilgban a gyermek megszletsnek a
lehetsge, a szlets eltt. Hol van a csra?
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
M: With him who is the witness of birth and death,
but is neither born nor dies. He alone is the seed of
creation as well as its residue. Don't ask the mind to
confirm what is beyond the mind. Direct experience
is the only valid confirmation.
46. Awareness of Being is Bliss
Questioner: By profession I am a physician. I began
with surgery, continued with psychiatry and also
wrote some books on mental health and healing by
faith. I came to you to learn the laws of spiritual
health.
Maharaj: When you are trying to cure a patient,
what exactly are you trying to cure? What is cure?
When can you say that a man is cured?
Q: I seek to cure the body as well as improve the
link between the body and the mind. I also seek to
set right the mind.
M: Did you investigate the connection between the
mind and the body? At what point are they
connected?
Q: Between the body and the indwelling
consciousness lies the mind.
M: Is not the body made of food? And can there be
a mind without food?
Q: The body is built and maintained by food. Without
food the mind usually goes weak. But the mind is not
mere food. There is a transforming factor which
creates a mind in the body. What is that
transforming factor?
M: Just like the wood produces fire which is not
wood, so does the body produce the mind which is
not the body. But to whom does the mind appear?
Who is the perceiver of the thoughts and feelings
which you call the mind? There is wood, there is fire
and there is the enjoyer of the fire. Who enjoys the
mind? Is the enjoyer also a result of food, or is it
independent?
Q: The perceiver is independent.
M: How do you know? Speak from your own
experience. You are not the body nor the mind. You
say so. How do you know?
Q: I really do not know. I guess so.
M: Truth is permanent. The real is changeless. What M: Az igazsg lland. A valsg vltozhatatlan.
changes is not real, what is real does not change. Ami vltozik, nem vals, ami vals, nem vltozik.
197
M: Annl, aki tanja a szletsnek s hallnak, de
se nem szletik, se nem hal meg. Egyedl a
teremts csrja, valamint maradvnya. Ne az
elmtl vrd annak megerstst, ami az elmn tl
van. A kzvetlen tapasztalat az egyetlen rvnyes
megersts.
46. A ltezs tudatossga boldogsg
Krdez: A foglalkozsom orvos. Sebszettel
kezdtem, pszichitrival folytattam, rtam is nhny
knyvet a mentlis egszsgrl, s a hit ltali
gygyulsrl. Eljttem el hozzd, hogy megtanuljam
a spiritulis egszsg trvnyeit.
Maharaj: Amikor egy beteg gygytsval fradozol,
pontosan mi az, amit megprblsz meggygytani?
Mi a gygyts? Mikor mondhatjuk hogy egy ember
meg van gygytva?
K: A test meggygytsra trekszem, valamint meg
prblom kijavtani a kapcsolatot a test s az elme
kztt. Megprblom rendbe hozni az elmt is.
M: Tanulmnyoztad az elme s a test kztti
kapcsolatot? Mely ponton kapcsoldnak?
K: A test s az immanens tudatossg kztt fekszik
az elme.
M: A test nem a tpllkbl plt fel? s ltezhet az
elme tpllk nlkl?
K: A testet tpllk pti fel s tartja fenn. Tpllk
nlkl az elme ltalban legyengl. De az elme nem
pusztn tpllk. Van egy talakt tnyez, amely
az elmt ltrehozza a testben. Mi ez az talakt
tnyez?
M: Mint ahogy a tzifa ltrehozza a tzet, amely
nem fa, gy hozza ltre a test az elmt, amely nem
a test. De kinek a szmra jelenik meg az elme? Ki
szleli a gondolatokat s rzelmeket, amit elmnek
neveznk? Van a fa, s van a tz, s van az, aki a
tzet lvezi. Ki lvezi az elmt? Az lvez is a
tpllk eredmnye, vagy pedig fggetlen?
K: Az szlel fggetlen.
M: Honnan tudod? Beszlj sajt tapasztalatbl. Te
nem vagy a test, sem az elme. gy mondod. Honnan
tudod?
K: Valjban nem tudom. gy felttelezem.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Now, what is it in you that does not change? As long
as there is food, there is body and mind. When the
food is stopped, the body dies and the mind
dissolves. But does the observer perish?
Q: I guess it does not. But I have no proof.
M: You yourself are the proof. You have not, nor can
you have any other proof. You are yourself, you
know yourself, you love yourself. Whatever the mind
does, it does for the love of its own self. The very
nature of the self is love. It is loved, loving and
lovable. It is the self that makes the body and the
mind so interesting, so very dear. The very attention
given to them comes from the self.
Q: If the self is not the body nor the mind, can it exist K: Ha az n nem a test, s nem is az elme, akkor
without the body and the mind?
M: Yes, it can. It is a matter of actual experience that
the self has being independent of mind and body. It
is being -- awareness -- bliss. Awareness of being is
bliss.
Q: It may be a matter of actual experience to you,
but it is not my case. How can I come to the same
experience? What practices to follow, what
exercises to take up?
M: To know that you are neither body nor mind,
watch yourself steadily and live unaffected by your
body and mind, completely aloof, as if you were
dead. It means you have no vested interests, either
in the body or in the mind.
Q: Dangerous.
M: I am not asking you to commit suicide. Nor can
you. You can only kill the body, you cannot stop the
mental process, nor can you put an end to the
person you think you are. Just remain unaffected.
This complete aloofness, unconcern with mind and
body is the best proof that at the core of your being
you are neither mind nor body. What happens to the
body and the mind may not be within your power to
change, but you can always put an end to your
imagining yourself to be body and mind. Whatever
happens, remind yourself that only your body and
mind are affected, not yourself. The more earnest
you are at remembering what needs to be
remembered, the sooner will you be aware of
yourself as you are, for memory will become
experience. Earnestness reveals being. What is
imagined and willed becomes actuality -- here lies
the danger as well as the way out.
Tell me, what steps have you taken to separate your
real self, that in you which is changeless, from your Mondd el nekem, milyen lpseket tettl, hogy
body and mind?
198
Nos, mi nem vltozik benned? Amg tpllk van,
addig test s elme is van. Amikor a tpllknak
vge, a test meghal, s az elme szertefoszlik. De
elpusztul-e a figyel?
K: gy vlem, nem. De nincs r bizonytkom.
M: Te magad vagy a bizonytk. Nincs, s nem is
lehet semmilyen ms bizonytkod. nmagad vagy,
ismered nmagad, szereted nmagad. Brmit tesz
az elme, azrt teszi, mert szereti sajt njt. Az n
igazi termszete a szeretet. szeretett, szeret s
szeretetre mlt. Valjban a fel irnyul figyelem
az nbl jn.
test s elme nlkl is ltezhet?
M: Igen, ltezhet. Valsgos tapasztalatom alapjn
az n lte fggetlen az elmtl s a testtl. Ez a lt
tudatossg dvssg. A lt tudatossga
dvssg.
K: Lehet, hogy ez neked valsgos tapasztalatod,
de velem nem ez a helyzet. Hogyan szerezhetek
ilyen tapasztalatot? Milyen prakszist kell kvetni,
milyen gyakorlatokat kell vgezni?
M: Hogy megtudd, hogy nem vagy test, s elme
sem, llhatatosan figyeld nmagadat, s lj testedtl
s elmdtl rintetlenl, teljesen kzmbsen,
mintha halott lennl. Vagyis ne legyenek egyni
rdekeltsgeid, se testeddel, se elmddel
kapcsolatban.
K: Ez letveszlyes.
M: Nem azt krem, hogy legyl ngyilkos. Nem is
tudnl. Csak a testet tudod meglni, sem a mentlis
folyamatokat nem tudod meglltani, sem annak a
szemlynek nem tudsz vget vetni, akinek gondolod
magad. Csak maradj rintetlen. Ez a teljes
tartzkods, az elmvel s a testtel val nem
trds a legjobb bizonytka, hogy ltednek sem az
elme, sem a test nem lnyege. A testeddel s
elmddel kapcsolatos trtnseket nincs
hatalmadban megvltoztatni, de annak brmikor
vget vethetsz, hogy testnek s elmnek kpzeld
magad. Brmi trtnik, emlkeztesd magad, hogy az
csak elmdet s testedet rintik, nmagadat nem.
Minl komolyabban emlkszel arra, amire
emlkezned kell, annl hamarabb leszel tudatban
nmagadnak, aki valjban vagy, mert az emlkezet
tapasztalatt vlik. Komolysg fedi fel a ltet. Amit
elkpzelsz s akarsz, valsgg vlik ebben rejlik
a veszly, valamint a kit.
elklntsd a benned lv vltozhatatlan, valdi nt
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: I am a medical man, I have studied a lot, I K: Orvos vagyok, sokat tanultam, szigor fegyelmet
imposed on myself a strict discipline in the way of sajttottam el gyakorlatokkal s szigor bjtkkel,
exercises and periodical fasts and I am a vegetarian. s vegetrinus vagyok.
M: But in the depth of your heart what is it that you
want?
Q: I want to find reality.
M: What price are you willing to pay for reality? Any
price?
Q: While in theory I am ready to pay any price, in
actual life again and again I am being prompted to
behave in ways which come in between me and
reality. Desire carries me away.
M: Increase and widen your desires till nothing but
reality can fulfil them. It is not desire that is wrong,
but its narrowness and smallness. Desire is
devotion. By all means be devoted to the real, the
infinite, the eternal heart of being. Transform desire
into love. All you want is to be happy. All your
desires, whatever they may be, are expressions of
your longing for happiness. Basically, you wish
yourself well.
Q: I know that I should not
M: Wait. Who told you that you should not? What is
wrong with wanting to be happy?
Q: The self must go, l know.
M: But the self is there. Your desires are there. Your
longing to be happy is there. Why? Because you
love yourself. By all means love yourself -- wisely.
What is wrong is to love yourself stupidly, so as to
make yourself suffer. Love yourself wisely. Both
indulgence and austerity have the same purpose in
view -- to make you happy. Indulgence is the stupid
way, austerity is the wise way.
Q: What is austerity?
M: Once you have gone through an experience, not
to go through it again is austerity. To eschew the
unnecessary is austerity. Not to anticipate pleasure
or pain is austerity. Having things under control at all
times is austerity. Desire by itself is not wrong. It is
life itself, the urge to grow in knowledge and
experience.
It is the choices you make that are wrong. To
imagine that some little thing food, sex, power,
fame -- will make you happy is to deceive yourself.
199
a testedtl s az elmdtl?
M: De mi az, amit a szved mlyn akarsz?
K: Meg akarom tallni a valsgot.
M: Milyen rat vagy hajland megfizetni a
valsgrt? Brmilyen rat?
K: Mikzben ksz vagyok elmletben brmi rat
megfizetni, tnylegesen az letem sorn jra s jra
olyan utakra rzek ksztetst, amely kzm s a
valsg kz furakszik. A vgy flre visz.
M: Addig gyaraptsd s szlestsd a vgyaidat, amg
semmi ms nem felel meg nekik, csak a valsg.
Nem a vgy a rossz, hanem annak korltoltsga s
kicsinysge. A vgy odaads. Felttel nlkl lgy
odaad a valsg irnt, a lt vgtelen, rk szve
irnt. Alaktsd t a vgyat szeretett. Minden
akaratod az, hogy boldog lgy. Minden vgyad,
akrmik is azok, a boldogsg irnti vgyakozsod
kifejezdse. Alapveten jt kvnsz nmagadnak.
K: Tudom, de nem kellene
M: Vrj. Kitl hallottad, hogy nem kellene? Mi rossz
van abban, hogy boldog akarsz lenni?
K: Az nnek mennie kell, tudom.
M: De az n jelen van. Vgyaid vannak. Boldogsg
utni vgyad van. Mirt? Mert szereted magad.
Minden krlmnyek kztt szeresd magad
blcsen. Akkor van baj, ha butn szereted magad,
szenvedst okozva ezzel nmagadnak. Szeresd
nmagad blcsen. Mind az lvezetnek, mind a
mrtkletessgnek lthatlag ugyanaz a clja
tged boldogg tenni. lvezet az ostoba t,
mrtkletessg a blcs t.
K: Mi a mrtkletessg?
M: Nem menni keresztl ismtelten azon a
tapasztalaton, amelyiken mr keresztlmentl
mrtkletessg. Szksgtelentl tartzkodni
mrskletessg. lvezetet vagy fjdalmat nem
siettetni mrskletessg. A dolgokat llandan
kontroll alatt tartani mrskletessg. A vgy mint
olyan, nem helytelen. A vgy maga az let, a tuds-
s tapasztalatbeli nvekedsre val sztnzs.
A vlasztsaid a helytelenek. Azt kpzelni, hogy
valamilyen csekly dolog tel, szex, hatalom,
hrnv boldogg tehet, nmagad becsapsa. Csak
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Only something as vast and deep as your real self
can make you truly and lastingly happy.
Q: Since there is nothing basically wrong in desire
as an expression of love of self, how should desire
be managed?
M: Live your life intelligently, with the interests of
your deepest self always in mind. After all, what do
you really want? Not perfection; you are already
perfect. What you seek is to express in action what
you are. For this you have a body and a mind. Take
them in hand and make them serve you.
Q: Who is the operator here? Who is to take the
body-mind in hand?
M: The purified mind is the faithful servant of the
self. It takes charge of the instruments, inner and
outer, and makes them serve their purpose.
Q: And what is their purpose?
M: The self is universal and its aims are universal.
There is nothing personal about the self. Live an
orderly life, but don't make it a goal by itself. It
should be the starting point for high adventure.
Q: Do you advise me to come to India repeatedly?
M: If you are earnest, you don't need moving about.
You are yourself wherever you are and you create
your own climate. Locomotion and transportation will
not give you salvation. You are not the body and
dragging the body from place to place will take you
nowhere. Your mind is free to roam the three worlds
-- make full use of it.
Q: If I am free, why am I in a body?
M: You are not in the body, the body is in you. The
mind is in you. They happen to you. They are there
because you find them interesting. Your very nature
has the infinite capacity to enjoy. It is full of zest and
affection. It sheds its radiance on all that comes
within its focus of awareness and nothing is
excluded. It does not know evil nor ugliness, it
hopes, it trusts, it loves. You people do not know
how much you miss by not knowing your own true
self. You are neither the body nor the mind, neither
the fuel nor the fire. They appear and disappear
according to their own laws.
That which you are, your true self, you love it, and
whatever you do, you do for your own happiness. To
find it, to know it, to cherish it is your basic urge.
Since time immemorial you loved yourself, but never
wisely. Use your body and mind wisely in the service
200
ami annyira hatalmas s mly, mint a te valdi ned,
tehet tged igazn s tartsan boldogg.
K: Mivel a vgyban, mint az n szeretetnek a
kifejezsben alapjban vve semmi rossz nincs,
mikppen kell a vgyakat kezelni?
M: ld az letedet intelligensen, elmdben a
legmlyebb ned irnti rdekldssel. Elvgre mit
akarsz valjban? Nem tkletessget; te mr
tkletes vagy. Amit keresel, az annak
cselekvsben val kifejezse, ami vagy. Ezrt van
tested s elmd. Vedd ket kzbe, s tedd ket
szolgdd.
K: Ki mkdik itt? Ki az, akinek a test-elmt kzbe
kell vennie?
M: A megtisztult elme, az n hsges szolgja. Ez
veszi gondjaiba az eszkzket, a belsket s a
klsket egyarnt, s lltja ket cljainak
szolglatba.
K: s mik a clok?
M: Az n univerzlis, s cljai univerzlisak. Semmi
nem szemlyes az nnel kapcsolatban. lj egy
rendes letet, de ne tzz ki nmagrt val clt. Ez
kell, hogy legyen a kiindulpontja a nagy kalandnak.
K: Mi a tancsod, jjjek el tbbszr Indiba?
M: Ha komoly vagy, e clbl meg se kell mozdulnod.
nmagad vagy akrhol vagy, s te teremted sajt
klmdat. Helyvltoztats s utazs rvn nem fogsz
dvzlni. Te nem a test vagy, s a test helyrl
helyre vonszolsa nem fog eljuttatni sehov.
Elmdnek szabadsgban ll a hrom vilg
bekalandozsa hasznld ki teljes mrtkben.
K: Ha szabad vagyok, mirt vagyok testben?
M: Nem vagy a testben, a test van tebenned. Az
elme is tebenned van. Ezek trtnnek veled. Azrt
vannak itt, mert rdekesnek tartod ket. Valdi
termszetednek vgtelen a kapacitsa az rmre.
Csupa letkedv s szeretet. Kirasztja ragyogst
mindenre, ami tudatossga fkuszba kerl, s
ebbl semmi nincs kizrva. Nem ismer se gonoszt,
se rtsgot, remnykedik, bizakodik, szeret. Te
ember, nem tudod, mekkort hibzol, ha nem
ismered meg sajt valdi nedet. Te nem vagy sem
a test, sem az elme, sem a tzel, sem a tz.
Mindezek sajt trvnyeik szerint jelennek meg s
tnnek el.
Szereted azt, ami vagy, valdi nedet, s brmit
teszel, sajt boldogsgod rdekben teszed.
Felfedezni azt, megismerni azt, gondjt viselni neki,
ez alapvet ksztetsed. Emberemlkezet eltti id
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
of the self, that is all. Be true to your own self, love
your self absolutely. Do not pretend that you love
others as yourself. Unless you have realised them
as one with yourself, you cannot love them. Don't
pretend to be what you are not, don't refuse to be
what you are. Your love of others is the result of self-
knowledge, not its cause. Without self-realisation, no
virtue is genuine. When you know beyond all
doubting that the same life flows through all that is
and you are that life, you will love all naturally and
spontaneously. When you realise the depth and
fullness of your love of yourself, you know that every
living being and the entire universe are included in
your affection. But when you look at anything as
separate from you, you cannot love it for you are
afraid of it. Alienation causes fear and fear deepens
alienation. It is a vicious circle. Only self-realisation
can break it. Go for it resolutely.
47. Watch Your Mind
Questioner: In one's search for the essential, one
soon realises one's inadequacy and the need for a
guide or a teacher. This implies a certain discipline
for you are expected to trust your guide and follow
implicitly his advice and instruction. Yet the social
urgencies and pressures are so great, personal
desires and fears so powerful, that the simplicity of
mind and will, essential in obedience, are not
forthcoming. How to strike a balance between the
need for a Guru and the difficulty in obeying him
implicitly?
Maharaj: What is done under pressure of society
and circumstances does not matter much, for it is
mostly mechanical, mere reacting to impacts. It is
enough to watch oneself dispassionately to isolate
oneself completely from what is going on. What has
been done without minding, blindly, may add to
one's karma (destiny), otherwise it hardly matters.
The Guru demands one thing only; clarity and
intensity of purpose, a sense of responsibility for
oneself. The very reality of the world must be
questioned. Who is the Guru, after all? He who
knows the state in which there is neither the world
nor the thought of it, he is the Supreme Teacher. To
find him means to reach the state in which
imagination is no longer taken for reality. Please,
understand that the Guru stands for reality, for truth,
for what is. He is a realist in the highest sense of the
term. He cannot and shall not come to terms with
the mind and its delusions. He comes to take you to
the real; don't expect him to do anything else.
201
ta szeretted nmagadat, de sohasem blcsen.
Hasznld blcsen testedet s elmdet az n
szolglatban, ez minden. Lgy h sajt nedhez,
szeresd nedet felttel nlkl. Ne sznleld, hogy
nmagadknt szeretsz msokat. Hacsak fel nem
ismerted, hogy k veled egyek, nem szeretheted
ket. Ne tettesd magad annak, aki nem vagy, ne
tagadd meg azt, aki vagy. Msok irnti szereteted az
nismeretnek eredmnye, nem pedig oka.
nmegvalsts nlkl semmilyen erny nem
hiteles. Amikor tudod, minden ktsget kizran,
hogy mindenen keresztl egyazon let ramlik, s
hogy te vagy az az let, szeretni fogsz mindent,
termszetes s spontn mdon. Amikor felismered
nszereteted mlysgt s teljessgt, tudni fogod,
hogy minden llnyt s az egsz univerzumot
magban foglalja a szereteted. De mikor brmire
tled klnllknt tekintesz, nem szeretheted, mert
flsz tle. Az elidegeneds flelmet okoz, s a
flelem fokozza az elidegenedst. Ez egy rdgi
kr. Csak az nmegvalsts trheti meg. Efel
trekedj, eltklten.
47. Figyeld az elmdet
Krdez: Mikzben a lnyeget keresi az ember,
hamarosan felismeri alkalmatlansgt, s egy
vezet, vagy tant szksgessgt. Ez bizonyos
fegyelmet tesz szksgess, mert elvrs feld a
vezetd irnti bizalom, s kvetkezskppen
tancsainak s instrukciinak kvetse. De a
jelentkeny trsadalmi srgets s nyoms, a
szemly erteljes vgyai s flelmei miatt nem jn
ltre az elme s az akarat gyermeki bizalma,
elengedhetetlen engedelmessge. Hogy lehet
kompromisszumot teremteni a Guru irnti igny, s
a neki val engedelmessg nehzsge kztt?
Maharaj: A trsadalom s a krlmnyek knyszere
alatti cselekedetek nem nagyon fontosak, mert
javarszt gpies, pusztn behatsok ltal keltett
reakcik. Elegend, ha az ember prtatlan mdon
figyeli nmagt, hogy tkletesen elszigetelje magt
attl, ami vgbemegy. Az sz nlkl, vakon
elkvetett cselekedetek hozzaddhatnak a
karmhoz (sors), egybknt nemigen lnyegesek. A
Guru egyet kr csupn, tiszta s intenzv
cltudatossgot, nmagad irnti felelssgrzst. A
vilg egsznek realitsa megkrdjelezend. Ki a
Guru, vgl is? Az, aki ismeri az llapotot, amelyben
nem ltezik sem a vilg, sem annak gondolata, a
Legfelsbb Tant. Megtallni t azt jelenti, hogy
elrni az llapotot, amelyben a kpzeletet nem
tartod tbb valsgnak. Krlek, rtsd meg, hogy a
Guru a valsgot, az igazsgot kpviseli, azt, ami
van. a sz legteljesebb rtelmben realista. Nem
tud, s nem fog kiegyezni az elmvel, s annak
illziival. Azrt jn, hogy eljuttasson tged a
valsgba; ne vrj tle semmi egyebet.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
The Guru you have in mind, one who gives you
information and instructions, is not the real Guru.
The real Guru is he who knows the real, beyond the
glamour of appearances. To him your questions
about obedience and discipline do not make sense,
for in his eyes the person you take yourself to be
does not exist, your questions are about a non-
existing person. What exists for you does not exist
for him. What you take for granted, he denies
absolutely. He wants you to see yourself as he sees
you. Then you will not need a Guru to obey and
follow, for you will obey and follow your own reality.
Realise that whatever you think yourself to be is just
a stream of events; that while all happens, comes
and goes, you alone are, the changeless among the
changeful, the self-evident among the inferred.
Separate the observed from the observer and
abandon false identifications.
Q: In order to find the reality, one should discard all
that stands in the way. On the other hand, the need
to survive within a given society compels one to do
and endure many things. Does one need to abandon
one's profession and one's social standing in order
to find reality?
M: Do your work. When you have a moment free,
look within. What is important is not to miss the
opportunity when it presents itself. If you are earnest
you will use your leisure fully. That is enough.
Q: In my search for the essential and discarding the
unessential, is there any scope for creative living?
For instance, I love painting. Will it help me if I give
my leisure hours to painting?
M: Whatever you may have to do, watch your mind.
Also you must have moments of complete inner
peace and quiet, when your mind is absolutely still. If
you miss it, you miss the entire thing. If you do not,
the silence of the mind will dissolve and absorb all
else.
Your difficulty lies in your wanting reality and being
afraid of it at the same time. You are afraid of it
because you do not know it. The familiar things are
known, you feel secure with them. The unknown is
uncertain and therefore dangerous. But to know
reality is to be in harmony with it. And in harmony
there is no place for fear.
An infant knows its body, but not the body-based
distinctions. It is just conscious and happy. After all,
that was the purpose for which it was born. The
pleasure to be is the simplest form of self-love,
202
Az a fajta Guru, akire te gondolsz, aki informcikat
s instrukcikat ad neked, az nem a valdi Guru. A
valdi Guru az, aki ismeri a ltszatok kprzatn tli
valsgot. Szmra a te engedelmessgre s
fegyelemre vonatkoz krdseid nem brnak
jelentssel, mert az szemben a szemly, akinek
te tartod magad, nem ltezik, a krdseid egy nem
ltez szemlyre vonatkoznak. Ami ltezik a te
szmodra, az nem ltezik az szmra. Amit te
magtl rtetdnek tekintesz, azt abszolte
elutastja. Azt akarja, hogy gy lsd magad, mint
ahogy lt tged. Akkor nem fog kelleni a Gurunak
engedelmeskedned, s t kvetned, mert sajt
valsgodnak fogsz engedelmeskedni, s azt fogod
kvetni. Ismerd fel, hogy akrminek gondolod
magad, az csak esemnyek ramlsa; mikzben
minden trtnik, megjelenik s eltvozik, egyedl te
vagy, a vltoztathatatlan a vltozkonyban, a
magtl rtetd a kvetkeztetettben. Vlaszd kln
a megfigyeltet a megfigyeltl, s hagyj fel a hamis
azonosulsokkal.
K: A valsg megtallsa rdekben el kell vetni
mindent, ami az utat elllja. Msfell, az adott
trsadalmi knyszerek kztti tlls kvetelmnye
miatt sok mindennek a vghezvitelre, s
elszenvedsre szksg van. Fel kell adnia az
embernek a foglalkozst s trsadalmi helyzett
annak rdekben, hogy megtallja a valsgot?
M: Vgezd a munkd. Amikor van egy pillanatnyi
szabad idd, tekints befel. Fontos, hogy ne hagyd
ki a szmodra add kedvez alkalmat. Ha komoly
vagy, teljes egszben kihasznlod a szabad iddet.
Ez elegend.
K: A lnyeges keresse s a lnyegtelen elhagysa
sorn van-e valamilyen szkpja a kreatv letnek?
Pldul, szeretem a festszetet. Segtsget jelent,
ha szabad rimat a festszetre fordtom?
M: Akrmit csinlhatsz, kzben figyeld az elmdet.
Kell, hogy legyenek olyan pillanataid is, amikor teljes
a bels bke s a csend, amikor elmd abszolt
nyugalomban van. Ha ezt elmulasztod, mindent
elmulasztasz. Ha ezt nem csinlod, elmd csendje
szertefoszlik, s mindenfle mst szv magba.
Nehzsged abban rejlik, hogy akarod a valsgot,
s fled is, ugyanakkor. Fled, mert nem ismered. A
megszokott dolgok ismersek, biztonsgban rzed
magad velk. Az ismeretlen bizonytalan, s ezrt
veszlyes. De a valsg megismershez
harmniban kell lenni vele. s a harmniban
nincs helye flelemnek.
Egy gyermek ismeri a testt, de a test alap
megklnbztetseket nem. Csupn tudatos, s
boldog. Vgl is, ez volt a cl, amirt megszletett.
A lt lvezete az nszeretet legegyszerbb formja,
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
which later grows into love of the self. Be like an
infant with nothing standing between the body and
the self. The constant noise of the psychic life is
absent. In deep silence the self contemplates the
body. It is like the white paper on which nothing is
written yet. Be like that infant, instead of trying to be
this or that, be happy to be. You will be a fully
awakened witness of the field of consciousness. But
there should be no feelings and ideas to stand
between you and the field.
Q: To be content with mere being seems to be a
most selfish way of passing time.
M: A most worthy way of being selfish. By all means
be selfish by foregoing everything but the Self.
When you love the Self and nothing else, you go
beyond the selfish and the unselfish. All distinctions
lose their meaning. Love of one and love of all
merge together in love, pure and simple, addressed
to none, denied to none. Stay in that love, go deeper
and deeper into it, investigate yourself and love the
investigation and you will solve not only your own
problems but also the problems of humanity. You
will know what to do. Do not ask superficial
questions; apply yourself to fundamentals, to the
very roots of your being.
Q: Is there a way for me to speed up my self-
realisation?
M: Of course there is.
Q: Who will do this speeding up? Will you do it for
me?
M: Neither you will do it, nor me. It will just happen.
Q: My very coming here has proved it. Is this
speeding up due to holy company? When I left last
time, I hoped to come back. And I did. Now I am
desperate that so soon I have to leave for England.
M: You are like a newly born child. It was there
before but not conscious of its being. At its birth a
world arose in it, and with it the consciousness of
being. Now you have just to grow in consciousness,
that is all. The child is the king of the world -- when it
grows up, it takes charge of its kingdom. Imagine
that in its infancy it fell seriously ill and the physician
cured it. Does it mean that the young king owes his
kingdom to the physician? Only, perhaps as one of
the contributing factors. There were so many others;
all contributed. But the main factor, the most crucial,
was the fact of being born the son of a king.
Similarly, the Guru may help. But the main thing that
203
amely ksbb az n szeretetbe n bele. Lgy akr
egy gyermek, nem lltva semmit a test s az n
kz. A pszichikai let lland zaja nla hinyzik. A
mly csendben az n szemlli a testet. Az olyan,
mint a fehr papr, amelyre semmi sincs rva mg.
Lgy akr a gyermek, ahelyett, hogy ez, vagy az
prblnl lenni, lgy boldog, hogy vagy. Teljesen
felbredett tanja leszel a tudatossg ternek. De
ne legyenek rzsek s idek, kzted s a tr
kztt.
K: A puszta ltezssel val megelgeds az
idtlts legnzbb mdjnak tnik.
M: Az nzs legbecsletesebb mdja.
Termszetesen lgy nz, lemondva mindenrl, az
nt kivve. Amikor semmi mst nem szeretsz, csak
az nt, mindenfle nzsget s nzetlensget
meghaladsz. Mindenfle megklnbztets elveszti
rtelmt. Az egy szeretete s a minden szeretete
egybeolvadnak a szeretetben, a tisztasgban s
egyszersgben, nem cmkzve semmit, nem
elutastva semmit. Idzz ebben a szeretetben,
merlj benne mlyebbre s mlyebbre, kutasd
magad, s szeresd e kutatst, s meg fogod oldani,
nemcsak sajt problmdat, hanem az emberisg
problmit is. Tudni fogod, hogy mit kell tenned. Ne
tgy fel felsznes krdseket; fordulj a sarkalatos
krdsek fel, lted igazi alapjai fel.
K: Van olyan mdszer, amellyel felgyorsthatom az
nmegvalstsomat?
M: Termszetesen van.
K: Ki fogja felgyorstani? Megtennd szmomra?
M: Nem te fogod megtenni, sem n. Csupn
megtrtnik.
K: Valjban idejvetelem igazolta. Ez a
felgyorsuls a szent trsasg miatt kvetkezik be?
Amikor elmentem legutbb, remnykedtem, hogy
visszajvk. s megtrtnt. Most abban
remnykedem, hogy hamarosan Angliba megyek.
M: Olyan vagy, akr egy jszltt gyermek. Mr
eltte is volt, de nem volt tudatos a ltre.
Szletsekor megjelent benne egy vilg, s vele a
ltezs tudatossga. Most csupn bele kell nnd a
tudatossgba, ez minden. A gyermek a vilg kirlya
amikor feln, tveszi kirlysgnak irnytst.
Kpzeld el, hogy gyermekkorban slyos beteg lesz,
s orvosi kezelst kap. Ez azt jelenti, hogy a fiatal
kirly az orvosnak ksznheti a kirlysgt? Ez
taln csak egyike a kzremkd tnyezknek. Oly
sok ms tnyez is volt, amelyek mindegyike
kzremkdtt. De a legfbb, a legkritikusabb
tnyez az a tny, hogy kirly fiaknt szletett. A
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
helps is to have reality within. It will assert itself.
Your coming here definitely helped you. It is not the
only thing that is going to help you. The main thing is
your own being. Your very earnestness testifies to it.
Q: Does my pursuing a vocation deny my
earnestness?
M: I told you already. As long as you allow yourself
an abundance of moments of peace, you can safely
practice your most honourable profession. These
moments of inner quiet will burn out all obstacles
without fail. Don't doubt its efficacy. Try it.
Q: But, I did try.
M: Never faithfully, never steadily. Otherwise you
would not be asking such questions. You are asking
because you are not sure of yourself. And you are
not sure of yourself because you never paid
attention to yourself, only to your experiences. Be
interested in yourself beyond all experience, be with
yourself, love yourself; the ultimate security is found
only in self-knowledge. The main thing is
earnestness. Be honest with yourself and nothing
will betray you. Virtues and powers are mere tokens
for children to play with. They are useful in the world,
but do not take you out of it. To go beyond, you
need alert immobility, quiet attention.
Q: What then becomes of one's physical being?
M: As long as you are healthy, you live on.
Q: This life of inner immobility, will it not affect one's
health?
M: Your body is food transformed. As your food,
gross and subtle, so will be your health.
Q: And what happens to the sex instinct? How can it K: s mi trtnik a nemi sztnnel? Hogyan lehet
be controlled? kontrolllni?
M: Sex is an acquired habit. Go beyond. As long as
your focus is on the body, you will remain in the
clutches of food and sex, fear and death. Find
yourself and be free.
48. Awareness is Free
Questioner: I have just arrived from Sri
Ramanashram. I have spent seven months there.
Maharaj: What practice were you following at the
Ashram?
204
Guru hasonlkppen segthet. De a legfbb, ami
segt, a valsg birtokban lenni bell. Az ki fogja
magt jelenteni. Idejveteled ktsgtelen, hogy
segtsget jelent szmodra. Nem ez az egyetlen,
ami segt. A legfbb a te sajt lted. ppen a
komolysgod az, ami ezt bizonytja.
K: Hivatsom gyakorlsa cfolja komolysgomat?
M: Mr mondtam. Amg lehetv teszed magad
szmra a bke pillanatainak a sokasgt, kockzat
nlkl gyakorolhatod legnagyobb tiszteletet rdeml
hivatsodat. A bels csend e pillanatai okvetlenl fel
fognak getni minden akadlyt. Ne ktelkedj
hatsossgban. Prbld ki.
K: De ht prbltam.
M: Sosem hitelesen, sosem llhatatosan. Egybknt
nem tennl fel ilyen krdseket. Azrt krdezel, mert
nem vagy biztos magadban. s azrt nem vagy
biztos magadban, mert sohasem figyeltl magadra,
csak a tapasztalataidra. Tansts nmagad irnt
minden tapasztalat feletti rdekldst, lgy
nmagaddal, szeresd nmagad; a vgs biztonsg
csak az nismeretben tallhat. A legfbb dolog a
komolysg. Lgy becsletes nmagaddal, s semmi
sem fog elcsbtani. Erny s hatalom csupn
jtkpnzek, a gyermekek jtkszere. Hasznosak a
vilgban, de nem visznek tged ki belle. Hogy
meghaladd, llhatatossgra, nyugodt figyelemre van
szksged.
K: Miv lesz akkor az ember fizikai lte?
M: Amg egszsges vagy, tovbb lsz.
K: Ez egy belsleg mozdulatlan let, nem lesz
hatssal az egszsgre?
M: A tested egy tpllk talakt. Amilyen az
teled, durva s finom, olyan lesz az egszsged.
M: A szex tanult viselkedsmd. Lpj rajta tl. Amg
a testre fkuszlsz, addig az evs s a szex, a
flelem s a hall karmai kzt maradsz. Talld meg
nmagad, s lgy szabad.
48. A tudat szabad
Krdez: Most jvk Sri Ramanashrambl. Ht
hnapot tltttem ott.
Maharaj: Milyen gyakorlatot kvettl az
Ashramban?
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: As far as I could, I concentrated on the 'Who am
l'?
M: Which way were you doing it? Verbally?
Q: In my free moments during the course of the day.
Sometimes I was murmuring to myself 'Who am l?' 'I
am, but who am l?' Or, I did it mentally. Occasionally
I would have some nice feeling, or get into moods of
quiet happiness. On the whole I was trying to be
quiet and receptive, rather than labouring for
experiences.
M: What were you actually experiencing when you
were in the right mood?
Q: A sense of inner stillness, peace and silence.
M: Did you notice yourself becoming unconscious?
Q: Yes, occasionally and for a very short time.
Otherwise I was just quiet, inwardly and outwardly.
M: What kind of quiet was it? Something akin to
deep sleep, yet conscious all the same. A sort of
wakeful sleep?
Q: Yes. Alertly asleep. (jagrit-sushupti).
M: The main thing is to be free of negative emotions
-- desire, fear etc., the 'six enemies' of the mind.
Once the mind is free of them, the rest will come
easily. Just as cloth kept in soap water will become
clean, so will the mind get purified in the stream of
pure feeling.
When you sit quiet and watch yourself, all kinds of
things may come to the surface. Do nothing about
them, don't react to them; as they have come so will
they go, by themselves. All that matters is
mindfulness, total awareness of oneself or rather, of
one's mind.
Q: By 'oneself' do you mean the daily self?
M: Yes, the person, which alone is objectively
observable. The observer is beyond observation.
What is observable is not the real self.
Q: I can always observe the observer, in endless
recession.
M: You can observe the observation, but not the
observer. You know you are the ultimate observer
by direct insight, not by a logical process based on
observation. You are what you are, but you know
what you are not. The self is known as being, the
not-self is known as transient. But in reality all is in
205
K: Amennyire csak tudtam, a Ki vagyok n?-re
sszpontostottam..
M: Ezt milyen mdon tetted? Verblisan?
K: A nap folyamn add szabad pillanataimban.
Nha mormogtam magamban, hogy Ki vagyok n?,
Vagyok, de ki vagyok n?, vagy mentlisan
csinltam ugyanezt. Idnknt kellemes rzsek
tltttek el, vagy a teljes boldogsg lelkillapotba
kerltem. Egszben vve nyugodt s elfogad
igyekeztem lenni, hogysem, a tapasztalatokrt val
megdolgozs helyett.
M: Mi volt a tnyleges tapasztalatod, amikor a
megfelel lelkillapotban voltl?
K: Bels nyugalom rzse, bke s csend.
M: Megfigyelted-e nmagad, hogy tudatlann vlsz?
K: Igen, ritkn s nagyon rvid ideig. Egybknt
nagyon nyugodt voltam, belsleg s klsleg is.
M: Milyen jelleg volt ez a nyugalom? Kicsit a mly
alvssal rokon, mgis tudatos? brenlti alvs fle?
K: Igen. ber alvs. (jagrit-sushupti).
M: A legfbb dolog megszabadulni a negatv
emciktl vgytl, flelemtl, stb., az elme hat
ellensgtl. Amint az elme megszabadul tlk, a
tbbi knnyen fog menni. Ahogy a kelme megtisztul
szappanos vztl, gy tisztul meg az elme a tiszta
rzsek ramlatban.
Mikor csendesen lsz, s befel figyelsz, mindenfle
dolgok kerlhetnek felsznre. Ne csinlj velk
semmit, ne reaglj rjuk; ahogy jnnek, gy el is
mennek, nmaguktl. Csupn a figyelem szmt,
nmaga teljes bersge, azaz inkbb elmjnek a
teljes bersge.
K: nmaga alatt a htkznapi nt rted?
M: Igen, a szemlyt, ez figyelhet meg egyedl
objektve. A megfigyel tl van a megfigyelsen.
Ami megfigyelhet, az nem a valdi n.
K: n mindig szlelni tudom a megfigyelt, vgtelen
visszavonulsban.
M: A megfigyelst tudod szlelni, nem pedig a
megfigyelt. Hogy a vgs megfigyel vagy, azt
kzvetlen szellemi meglts alapjn tudod, nem
megfigyelsen alapul logikai folyamat rvn. Ami
vagy, az vagy, azt pedig, hogy mi nem vagy, tudod.
Az nt ltknt ismered, a nem-nt mulandknt. De
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
the mind. The observed, observation and observer
are mental constructs. The self alone is.
Q: Why does the mind create all these divisions?
M: To divide and particularise is in the mind's very
nature. There is no harm in dividing. But separation
goes against fact. Things and people are different,
but they are not separate. Nature is one, reality is
one. There are opposites, but no opposition.
Q: I find that by nature I am very active. Here I am
advised to avoid activity. The more I try to remain
inactive, the greater the urge to do something. This
makes me not only active outwardly, but also
struggling inwardly to be what by nature I am not. Is
there a remedy against longing for work?
M: There is a difference between work and mere
activity. All nature works. Work is nature, nature is
work. On the other hand, activity is based on desire
and fear, on longing to possess and enjoy, on fear of
pain and annihilation. Work is by the whole for the
whole, activity is by oneself for oneself.
Q: Is there a remedy against activity?
M: Watch it, and it shall cease. Use every
opportunity to remind yourself that you are in
bondage, that whatever happens to you is due to the
fact of your bodily existence. Desire, fear, trouble,
joy, they cannot appear unless you are there to
appear to. Yet, whatever happens, points to your
existence as a perceiving centre. Disregard the
pointers and be aware of what they are pointing to. It
is quite simple, but it needs be done. What matters
is the persistence with which you keep on returning
to yourself.
Q: I do get into peculiar states of deep absorption
into myself, but unpredictably and momentarily. I do
not feel myself to be in control of such states.
M: The body is a material thing and needs time to
change. The mind is but a set of mental habits, of
ways of thinking and feeling, and to change they
must be brought to the surface and examined. This
also takes time. Just resolve and persevere, the rest
will take care of itself.
Q: I seem to have a clear idea of what needs be
206
valjban minden az elmben van. A megfigyelt, a
megfigyels s a megfigyel mentlis konstrukcik.
Az n van egyedl.
K: Mirt teremti az elme ezeket a
megklnbztetseket?
M: A feloszts s megklnbztets az elme
valsgos termszetbl fakad. Nincs semmi rossz
a felosztsban. De az elklnts ellenkezik a
tnyekkel. A dolgok s emberek klnbzk, de
nem elklnltek. A termszet egy, a valsg egy.
Vannak ellenttek, de nincs szembenlls.
K: n termszettl fogva nagyon aktvnak ismerem
magam. Itt kerlni javasoljk az aktivitst. Minl
inkbb prblok inaktv maradni, annl nagyobb a
ksztetsem, hogy csinljak valamit. Ez nemcsak
klsleg aktivizl, de belsleg is kzdelemre ksztet,
hogy az legyek, ami termszetemtl fogva nem
vagyok. Van gygyszer a tnykeds irnti svrgs
ellen?
M: Klnbsg van munka, s puszta tevkenysg
kztt. Az egsz termszet dolgozik. A munka
termszet, a termszet munka. Msfell, a
tevkenysg vgyra s flelemre alapszik, birtokls
s lvezet utni svrgsra, szenvedstl s
megsemmislstl val flelemre. Az egsz
munkja az egszrt, az egyn tevkenysge az
egynrt trtnik.
K: Van gygyszer a tevkenysg ellen?
M: Figyeld meg, s meg fog sznni. Hasznlj ki
minden alkalmat, hogy emlkeztesd magad,
ktelkek kztt vagy, hogy brmi trtnik veled, az
fizikai ltezsed miatt van. Vgy, flelem, gond,
rm, nem tudnak megjelenni, hacsak te ott nem
vagy, hogy megjelenhessenek. De akrmi trtnik,
az ltezsedre, mint szlelsi kzpontra mutat.
Hagyd figyelmen kvl a mutatkat, s azt
tudatostsd, amire azok mutatnak. Ez egy egszen
egyszer dolog, de meg kell tenni. Ami szmt, az az
llhatatossg, amellyel a magadhoz val
visszatrst folytatod.
K: Az nmagamba val mly feloldds klnleges
llapotba szoktam kerlni, de kiszmthatatlanul s
pillanatokra. Nem rzem magam kontroll alatt ilyen
llapotban.
M: A test anyagi dolog, s idt ignyel a vltozsa.
Az elme mentlis szoksok, gondolkodsmdok s
rzsek halmaza csupn, s megvltoztatsukhoz a
felsznre kell ket hozni, s meg kell ket vizsglni.
Ez szintn idt vesz ignybe. Csak lgy elsznt, s
tarts ki, a tbbi majd gondoskodik nmagrl.
K: Azt hiszem, tisztn ltom a teendket, de fradt
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
done, but I find myself getting tired and depressed
and seeking human company and thus wasting time
that should be given to solitude and meditation.
M: Do what you feel like doing. Don't bully yourself.
Violence will make you hard and rigid. Do not fight
with what you take to be obstacles on your way. Just
be interested in them, watch them, observe, enquire.
Let anything happen -- good or bad. But don't let
yourself be submerged by what happens.
Q: What is the purpose in reminding oneself all the
time that one is the watcher?
M: The mind must learn that beyond the moving
mind there is the background of awareness, which
does not change. The mind must come to know the
true self and respect it and cease covering it up, like
the moon which obscures the sun during solar
eclipse. Just realise that nothing observable, or
experienceable is you, or binds you. Take no notice
of what is not yourself.
Q: To do what you tell me I must be ceaselessly
aware.
M: To be aware is to be awake. Unaware means
asleep. You are aware anyhow, you need not try to
be. What you need is to be aware of being aware.
Be aware deliberately and consciously, broaden and
deepen the field of awareness. You are always
conscious of the mind, but you are not aware of
yourself as being conscious.
Q: As I can make out, you give distinct meanings to
the words 'mind', 'consciousness', and 'awareness'.
M: Look at it this way. The mind produces thoughts
ceaselessly, even when you do not look at them.
When you know what is going on in your mind, you
call it consciousness. This is your waking state --
your consciousness shifts from sensation to
sensation, from perception to perception, from idea
to idea, in endless succession. Then comes
awareness, the direct insight into the whole of
consciousness, the totality of the mind. The mind is
like a river, flowing ceaselessly in the bed of the
body; you identify yourself for a moment with some
particular ripple and call it: 'my thought'. All you are
conscious of is your mind; awareness is the
cognisance of consciousness as a whole.
Q: Everybody is conscious, but not everybody is
aware.
M: Don't say: 'everybody is conscious'. Say: 'there is M: Ne gy mondd, hogy: mindenki tudatos. gy
consciousness', in which everything appears and mondd, hogy: van tudatossg, amelyben minden
disappears. Our minds are just waves on the ocean megjelenik s eltnik. Gondolataink csak hullmok a
207
vagyok s levert, s emberi trsasgot keresek, s
gy elpazarolt id, amit magnyra s meditcira
fordtok.
M: Tedd, amihez kedved van. Ne tgy erszakot
magadon. Az erszak kemnny s ridegg tesz.
Ne harcolj azzal, amit utad akadlynak tekintesz.
Csak rdekldj irnta, szemlld, figyeld meg,
vizsgld. Hadd trtnjk akrmi j vagy rossz. De
ne engedd magad elmerlni a trtnsben.
K: Mi a clja annak, hogy az ember llandan
emlkeztesse magt, hogy a megfigyel?
M: Az elmnek meg kell tanulnia, hogy a mozg
elme mgtt, a httrben, ott van a nem vltoz
bersg. Az elme meg kell, hogy ismerje a valdi
nt, s tisztelnie kell azt, s abba kell hagyja annak
eltakarst, miknt a hold is takarja a napot
napfogyatkozs idejn. Csupn ismerd fel, hogy
semmilyen megfigyelhet, vagy tapasztalhat nem
te vagy, s nem kt meg tged. Hagyd figyelmen
kvl, ami nem nmagad.
K: Ahhoz, hogy azt csinljam, amit mondasz,
szakadatlanul bernek kell lennem.
M: bernek lenni annyi, mint felbredettnek lenni. A
nem bersg alvst jelent. Mindenkppen ber
vagy, nem kell erlkdnd, hogy legyl. Ami
szksges, hogy tudatban legyl, az
bersgednek. Legyl szndkosan s tudatosan
ber, tgtva s mlytve az bersg tert. Mindig
tudatban vagy az elmnek, de nem vagy tudatban
nmagadnak, mint ltez tudatossgnak.
K: Ahogy szreveszem, eltr jelentst tulajdontasz
az elme, tudatossg s bersg szavaknak.
M: Tekintsd gy. Az elme szntelenl gondolatokat
termel, mg ha nem figyelsz is rjuk. Amikor tudod,
hogy mi zajlik az elmdben, annak neve tudatossg.
Ez az brenlti llapotod tudatossgod rzkletrl
rzkletre, szlelsrl szlelsre, iderl idera vlt,
vgtelen egymsutnban. Ezt kveti az bersg, a
tudatossg egszbe val kzvetlen belelts, Az
elme, folyhoz hasonlan, a test folymedrben
ramlik szntelen; azonostod magad egy pillanatra
egy konkrt hullmmal, s gy nevezed: az n
gondolatom. Minden, aminek tudatban vagy, az az
elmd; az bersg a tudatossgrl, mint egszrl
val tudoms.
K: Mindenki tudatos, de nem mindenki ber.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
of consciousness. As waves they come and go. As tudatossg cenjn. Hullmokknt jnnek s
ocean they are infinite and eternal. Know yourself as mennek. Vgtelenek s rkk tartk, mint az
the ocean of being, the womb of all existence. These cen. Ismerd nmagad a lt cenjnak, minden
are all metaphors of course; the reality is beyond ltezs kiindulpontjnak. Mindezek persze
description. You can know it only by being it. metafork; a valsg meghaladja a lersokat. Akkor
ismered csak, ha megled.

Q: Is the search for it worth the trouble? K: Keresse megri a szenvedst?

M: Without it all is trouble. If you want to live sanely, M: Nlkle minden szenveds. Ha azt akarod, hogy
creatively and happily and have infinite riches to sszeren, kreatvan s boldogan lj, s vgtelen
share, search for what you are. gazdagsgban rszeslj, keresd azt, ami vagy.

While the mind is centred in the body and
consciousness is centred in the mind, awareness is
free. The body has its urges and mind its pains and
pleasures. Awareness is unattached and unshaken.
It is lucid, silent, peaceful, alert and unafraid, without
desire and fear. Meditate on it as your true being
and try to be it in your daily life, and you shall realise
it in its fullness.
Mg az elme a testben koncentrldik, s a
tudatossg az elmben, addig az bersg szabad. A
testnek ksztetsei, s az elmnek fjdalmai s
rmei vannak. Az bersg szabad s rendletlen.
Ragyog, csendes, bks, eleven s nem fl, hjn
van vgyaknak s flelmeknek. Meditlj rajta, mint
igaz lteden, s prblj az lenni a mindennapok
sorn, s fel fogod ismerni t, az teljessgben.

Mind is interested in what happens, while awareness Az elmt a trtns rdekli, mg az bersget maga
is interested in the mind itself. The child is after the az elme. A gyermek a jtkkal trdik, de az anya a
toy, but the mother watches the child, not the toy. gyermeket figyeli, nem a jtkot.

By looking tirelessly, I became quite empty and with Fradhatatlan figyelem rvn teljesen ress
that emptiness all came back to me except the mind. vltam, s ezzel az ressggel minden visszatrt
I find I have lost the mind irretrievably. hozzm, kivve az elmt. gy tallom, hogy
elvesztettem az elmt, visszavonhatatlanul.

Q: As you talk to us just now, are you unconscious? K: Mikzben hozznk beszlsz, tudatos vagy?

M: I am neither conscious nor unconscious, I am
beyond the mind and its various states and
conditions. Distinctions are created by the mind and
apply to the mind only. I am pure Consciousness
itself, unbroken awareness of all that is. I am in a
more real state than yours. I am undistracted by the
distinctions and separations which constitute a
person. As long as the body lasts, it has its needs
like any other, but my mental process has come to
an end.
M: Nem vagyok sem tudatos, sem tudattalan, tl
vagyok az elmn, s annak klnfle llapotain, s
felttelein. A megklnbztetseket az elme
teremette, s csak az elmre rvnyesek. n maga
a tiszta Tudatossg vagyok, tretlen bersge
mindennek, ami van. llapotom sokkal
valsgosabb, mint a tid. Figyelmemet nem vonjk
el a szemlyt alkot klnbsgek s elvlasztsok.
Amg a test kitart, lesznek szksgletei, mint brki
msnak, de mentlis folyamataim vget rtek.

Q: You behave like a person who thinks. K: Olyan a viselkedsed, mint egy gondolkod
szemlynek.

M: Why not? But my thinking, like my digestion, is M: Mirt ne lenne? De a gondolkodsom, az

unconscious and purposeful. emsztsemhez hasonlan, tudattalan s
szndkolatlan.

Q: If your thinking is unconscious, how do you know K: Ha gondolkodsod tudattalan, akkor honnan
that it is right? tudod, hogy helyes?

M: There is no desire, nor fear to thwart it. What can
make it wrong? Once I know myself and what I
stand for, I do not need to check on myself all the
time. When you know that your watch shows correct
time, you do not hesitate each time you consult it.
M: Se vgy, se flelem nincs, hogy akadlyozza. Mi
tudn elrontani? Mivel ismerem magam, s amit
kpviselek, nem kell szakadatlanul ellenriznem
magam. Ha tudod, hogy rd pontos idt mutat,
soha nem habozol megnzni.

208
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: At this very moment who talks, if not the mind?
M: That which hears the question, answers it.
Q: But who is it?
M: Not who, but what. I'm not a person in your sense
of the word, though I may appear a person to you. I
am that infinite ocean of consciousness in which all
happens. I am also beyond all existence and
cognition, pure bliss of being. There is nothing I feel
separate from, hence I am all. No thing is me, so I
am nothing.
The same power that makes the fire burn and the
water flow, the seeds sprout and the trees grow,
makes me answer your questions. There is nothing
personal about me, though the language and the
style may appear personal. A person is a set pattern
of desires and thoughts and resulting actions; there
is no such pattern in my case. There is nothing I
desire or fear -- how can there be a pattern?
Q: Surely, you will die.
M: Life will escape, the body will die, but it will not
affect me in the least. Beyond space and time I am,
uncaused, uncausing, yet the very matrix of
existence.
Q: May I be permitted to ask how did you arrive at
your present condition?
M: My teacher told me to hold on to the sense 'I am'
tenaciously and not to swerve from it even for a
moment. I did my best to follow his advice and in a
comparatively short time I realised within myself the
truth of his teaching. All I did was to remember his
teaching, his face, his words constantly. This
brought an end to the mind; in the stillness of the
mind I saw myself as I am -- unbound.
Q: Was your realisation sudden or gradual?
M: Neither. One is what one is timelessly. It is the
mind that realises as and when it get cleared of
desires and fears.
Q: Even the desire for realisation?
M: The desire to put an end to all desires is a most
peculiar desire, just like the fear of being afraid is a
most peculiar fear. One stops you from grabbing and
the other from running. You may use the same
words, but the states are not the same. The man
209
K: E pillanatban ki beszl, ha nem az elme?
M: Ami a krdst hallja, az vlaszol r.
K: De ki az?
M: Nem ki, hanem mi. n nem a te vilgfelfogsod
szerinti szemly vagyok, habr szemlynek tnhetek
szmodra. n a vgtelen tudatossg cen vagyok,
amelyben minden trtnik. Minden ltezsen s
megismersen is tl, a lt tiszta dve vagyok.
Semmitl nem rzem magam elklnltnek, ezrt n
vagyok minden. Semmilyen dolog nem n, gyhogy
semmi vagyok.
Ugyanaz az er hozza ltre a vlaszomat is a
krdseidre, amely a tzet tpllja, s a vizet
ramoltatja, a magokat csrztatja, s a fkat
nveszti. Semmi nem szemlyes velem
kapcsolatban, annak ellenre, hogy a nyelv s a
stlus szemlyesnek tnhet. A szemly vgy- s
gondolat mintk, s reagl cselekvsek halmaza;
az n esetemben nincsenek ilyen mintk. Semmi
nincs, amit vgyok, vagy flek hogyan lehetnnek
mintk?
K: Bizonyra, te is meghalsz egyszer.
M: Az let el fog illanni, a test meg fog halni, de ez
nem fog hatni rm, a legkevsb sem. Tl vagyok
tren s idn, semminek nem okaknt, semmi ltal
nem okozottan, mgis tkletes ltezsi mtrixban.
K: Megengeded a krdst, hogyan jutottl a
jelenlegi llapotodba?
M: Tantm arra krt, llhatatosan ragaszkodjak az
n vagyok rzshez, s ne trjek el tle mg egy
pillanatra se. Legjobb tudsom szerint kvettem
tancst, s viszonylag rvid id mlva megvalsult
bennem tantsnak igazsga. Mindssze annyit
tettem, hogy llandan emlkezetemben tartottam
tantst, arct, szavait. Ez vget vetett az elmnek;
az elme csendjben olyannak lttam meg magam,
amilyen vagyok ktelkek nlklinek.
K: A megvalsulsod hirtelen trtnt, vagy
fokozatosan?
M: Egyik sem. Az ember idtlenl az ami. Az elme
ismeri fel ahogy s amikor megtisztul a vgyaktl s
flelmektl.
K: Mg a megvalsuls irnti vgytl is?
M: Az a vgy a legklnsebb vgy, hogy vget
rjen minden vgy, ppgy, mint ahogy a flelemtl
val flelem is a legklnsebb flelem. Az egyik a
megragadsban, a msik a futsban akadlyoz.
Hasznlhatod ugyanazon szavakat, de az llapotok
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
who seeks realisation is not addicted to desires; he
is a seeker who goes against desire, not with it. A
general longing for liberation is only the beginning;
to find the proper means and use them is the next
step. The seeker has only one goal in view: to find
his own true being. Of all desires it is the most
ambitious, for nothing and nobody can satisfy it; the
seeker and the sought are one and the search alone
matters.
Q: The search will come to an end. The seeker will
remain.
M: No, the seeker will dissolve, the search will
remain. The search is the ultimate and timeless
reality.
Q: Search means lacking, wanting, incompleteness
and imperfection.
M: No, it means refusal and rejection of the
incomplete and the imperfect. The search for reality
is itself the movement of reality. In a way all search
is for the real bliss, or the bliss of the real. But here
we mean by search the search for oneself as the
root of being conscious, as the light beyond the
mind. This search will never end, while the restless
craving for all else must end, for real progress to
take place.
One has to understand that the search for reality, or
God, or Guru and the search for the self are the
same; when one is found, all are found. When 'I am'
and 'God is' become in your mind indistinguishable,
then something will happen and you will know
without a trace of doubt that God is because you
are, you are because God is. The two are one.
Q: Since all is preordained, is our self-realisation
also preordained? Or are we free there at least?
M: Destiny refers only to name and shape. Since
you are neither body nor mind, destiny has no
control over you. You are completely free. The cup
is conditioned by its shape, material, use and so on.
But the space within the cup is free. It happens to be
in the cup only when viewed in connection with the
cup. Otherwise it is just space. As long as there is a
body, you appear to be embodied. Without the body
you are not disembodied -- you Just are.
Even destiny is but an idea. Words can be put
together in so many ways. Statements can differ, but
do they make any change in the actual? There are
so many theories devised for explaining things -- all
are plausible, none is true. When you drive a car,
210
nem ugyanazok. Aki a megvalsulst keresi, az nem
vgy-fgg; egy olyan keres, aki a vgyak
ellenben halad, nem velk. A megszabaduls utni
egyetemes svrgs csupn kezdet; a tkletes
szndkok megtallsa, s azok alkalmazsa a
kvetkez lps. A keresnek csak egy cl lebeg a
szeme eltt: felfedezni sajt igazi ltt. Minden vgy
kzl ez a legambicizusabb, mert semmi s senki
nem teljestheti; a keres s a keresett egyek, s a
keress szmt egyedl.
K: A keress egyszer vget r. A keres megmarad.
M: Nem, a keres fog megsznni, a keress marad
meg. A keress a vgs s idtlen valsg.
K: A keress hinyt, akarst, befejezetlensget s
tkletlensget jelent.
M: Nem, a befejezetlen s a tkletlen elutastst,
s elvetst jelenti. A valsg keresse maga a
valsg mozgsa. Bizonyos rtelemben minden
keress a valdi boldogsgot, vagy a valsg
boldogsgt clozza. De itt keress alatt nmagad,
mint a tudatos lt gykere, az elme mgtti fny
keresst rtjk. Ez a keress soha nem r vget,
mg a minden ms irnti nyugtalan vgyakozs
vget kell rjen, mert a valdi elrehaladsnak kell a
helybe lpnie.
Az embernek meg kell rtenie, hogy a valsg, vagy
Isten, vagy a Guru keresse, s az n keresse
ugyanaz; amikor az egyiket megtallta, mindet
megtallta. Amikor az n vagyok s Isten az
elmdben megklnbztethetetlenekk vlnak,
akkor valami olyan fog trtnni, hogy a ktsg
nyoma nlkl tudni fogod, hogy Isten van, mert te
vagy, s te vagy, mert Isten van. A kett egy.
K: Mivel minden eleve elrendelt, nmegvalstsunk
is az? Vagy legalbb e tekintetben szabadok
vagyunk?
M: Sorsa csak nvnek s formnak van. Mivel te
nem vagy sem a test, sem az elme, a sorsnak nincs
hatalma fltted. Te tkletesen szabad vagy. A
csszt formja, anyaga, hasznlata stb. hatrozza
meg. De a csszn belli tr szabad. Az csak akkor
van a csszben, ha a csszvel kapcsolatban
llnak tekintjk. Egybknt csak tr. A test
ltezsig testet ltttnek ltszol. A test nlkl nem
vagy testtl elvlt csak vagy.
Radsul a sors is csak egy idea. A szavak oly
sokflekppen illeszthetk egymshoz. Az lltsok
klnbzhetnek, de okoznak-e brmilyen vltozst a
valsgon? Olyan sok terit kiagyaltak a dolgok
magyarzatra jl hangzik mindegyik, de nem igaz
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
you are subjected to the laws of mechanics and
chemistry: step out of the car and you are under the
laws of physiology and biochemistry.
Q: What is meditation and what are its uses?
M: As long as you are a beginner certain formalised
meditations, or prayers may be good for you. But for
a seeker for reality there is only one meditation -- the
rigorous refusal to harbour thoughts. To be free from
thoughts is itself meditation.
Q: How is it done?
M: You begin by letting thoughts flow and watching
them. The very observation slows down the mind till
it stops altogether. Once the mind is quiet, keep it
quiet. Don't get bored with peace, be in it, go deeper
into it.
Q: I heard of holding on to one thought in order to
keep other thoughts away. But how to keep all
thoughts away? The very idea is also a thought.
M: Experiment anew, don't go by past experience.
Watch your thoughts and watch yourself watching
the thoughts. The state of freedom from all thoughts
will happen suddenly and by the bliss of it you shall
recognise it.
Q: Are you not at all concerned about the state of
the world? Look at the horrors in East Pakistan
[1971, now Bangla Desh]. Do they not touch you at
all?
M: I am reading newspapers, I know what is going
on. But my reaction is not like yours. You are looking
for a cure, while I am concerned with prevention. As
long as there are causes, there must also be results.
As long as people are bent on dividing and
separating, as long as they are selfish and
aggressive, such things will happen. If you want
peace and harmony in the world, you must have
peace and harmony in your hearts and minds. Such
change cannot be imposed; it must come from
within. Those who abhor war must get war out of
their system. Without peaceful people how can you
have peace in the world? As long as people are as
they are, the world must be as it is. I am doing my
part in trying to help people to know themselves as
the only cause of their own misery. In that sense I
am a useful man. But what I am in myself, what is
my normal state cannot be expressed in terms of
social consciousness and usefulness.
211
egyik sem. Aut vezets kzben a mechanika s a
kmia trvnyeinek vagy alvetve: szllj ki az
autbl, s a fiziolgia s a biokmia trvnyeinek
hatskrbe kerlsz.
K: Mi a meditci, s mi a haszna?
M: Ameddig kezd vagy a formalizlt meditcik,
vagy imdsgok tern, j lehet szmodra. De a
valsg keresje szmra csak egy meditci
ltezik a megbj gondolatok krlelhetetlen
visszautastsa. A gondolatoktl val
megszabaduls maga meditci.
K: Hogyan kell csinlni?
M: Kezdd a gondolatok ramlsnak a
megengedsvel, megfigyelsvel. A tkletes
megfigyels lelasstja az elmt, mg az teljesen le
nem ll. Amint az elme lenyugodott, tartsd
nyugalomban. Ne untasd magad a bkvel, legyl
benne, merlj bele mlyebben.
K: Mondtad, tartsak ki egy gondolatnl, hogy a
tbbit tvol tartsam. De hogyan kell a gondolatokat
tvol tartani? A tkletes idea szintn gondolat.
M: Prblkozz mshogy, ne mltbli tapasztalatok
alapjn haladj. Figyeld a gondolataidat, s figyeld a
gondolatokat figyel nmagadat. A gondolatoktl
val szabadsg be fog kvetkezni egyszer csak, s
az dvssgrl el fogod ismerni azt.
K: Egyltaln nem rint a vilg helyzete? Nzd azt
az iszonyatot, ami szak Pakisztnban [most, 1971-
ben Bangla Desh] van. Nem rint meg egyltaln?
M: Olvasom az jsgokat, tudom mi zajlik. De az n
reakciim nem olyanok, mint a tieid. Te gygyrt
keresel, mg n a megelzssel trdm. Amg okok
vannak, addig kvetkezmnyeknek is lenni kell.
Amg az emberek megosztsra s elklnlsre
hajlamosak, amg nzk s agresszvek, addig ilyen
dolgok fognak trtnni. Ha bkt s harmnit
akarsz a vilgban, akkor bknek s harmninak
kell lenni a szvedben s az elmdben. Ilyen
vltozst nem lehet erltetni; annak bellrl kell
jnnie. Akik iszonyodnak a hbortl, azoknak el kell
tvoltaniuk a hbort a rendszerkbl. Bks
emberek nlkl hogyan lehetne bke a vilgban?
Amg az emberek olyanok amilyenek, a vilgnak
olyannak kell lenni, amilyen. n kiveszem a rszem,
megprblom segteni az embereket, hogy gy
ismerjk nmagukat, mint sajt szenvedsk
egyetlen okt. Ebben az rtelemben hasznos ember
vagyok. De ami valjban vagyok, ami a norml
llapotom, az nem fejezhet ki a trsadalmi
tudatossg s hasznossg terminolgijval.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
I may talk about it, use metaphors or parables, but I
am acutely aware that it is just not so. Not that it
cannot be experienced. It is experiencing itself. But it
cannot be described in the terms of a mind that must
separate and oppose in order to know.
The world is like a sheet of paper on which
something is typed. The reading and the meaning
will vary with the reader, but the paper is the
common factor, always present, rarely perceived.
When the ribbon is removed, typing leaves no trace
on the paper. So is my mind -- the impressions keep
on coming, but no trace is left.
Q: Why do you sit here talking to people? What is
your real motive?
M: No motive. You say I must have a motive. I am
not sitting here, nor talking: no need to search for
motives. Don't confuse me with the body. I have no
work to do, no duties to perform. That part of me
which you may call God will look after the world.
This world of yours, that so much needs looking
after, lives and moves in your mind. Delve into it,
you will find your answers there and there only.
Where else do you expect them to come from?
Outside your consciousness does anything exist?
Q: It may exist without my ever knowing it.
M: What kind of existence would it be? Can being be
divorced from knowing? All being, like all knowing,
relates to you. A thing is because you know it to be
either in your experience or in your being. Your body
and your mind exist as long as you believe so.
Cease to think that they are yours and they will just
dissolve. By all means let your body and mind
function, but do not let them limit you. If you notice
imperfections, just keep on noticing: your very giving
attention to them will set your heart and mind and
body right.
Q: Can I cure myself of a serious illness by merely
taking cognisance of it?
M: Take cognisance of the whole of it, not only of
the outer symptoms. All illness begins in the mind.
Take care of the mind first, by tracing and
eliminating all wrong ideas and emotions. Then live
and work disregarding illness and think no more of it.
With the removal of causes the effect is bound to
depart.
Man becomes what he believes himself to be.
Abandon all ideas about yourself and you will find
212
Beszlhetek rla, metafork vagy parabolk
segtsgvel, de ersen tudatban vagyok annak,
hogy nem sok eredmnnyel. Nem, mert az nem
megtapasztalhat. Az nmagt tapasztalja meg. De
nem rhat le az elme kifejezseivel, amely el kell
klntsen, s ellenttbe kell lltson ahhoz, hogy
tudjon.
A vilg akr egy gpelt paprlap. Az olvasat s a
jelents olvasnknt vltozik, de a paprt, amely
mindig jelen lv kzs tnyez, ritkn rzkelik. Ha
a szalagot eltvoltjuk, a gpels nem hagy nyomot
a papron. gy van az n elmm is folyamatosan
rik az impresszik, de nyomot nem hagynak rajta.
K: Mirt lsz itt, s beszlgetsz az emberekkel? Mi a
valdi motivcid?
M: Nincs motivcim. Te mondod, hogy lenni kell
motivcimnak. n nem lk itt, s nem beszlek:
nincs szksg motivci keressre. Ne tvessz
ssze a testtel. Nem kell dolgoznom, nincsenek
elltand ktelessgeim. Az a rszem, amelyet te
Istennek lehet nevezni, gondot visel a vilgra. A te
vilgod, amely annyira ignyli gondoskodst, a te
elmdben l s mozog. Hatolj a mlyre, ott tallod
a vlaszokat, s csak ott. Honnan mshonnan
remled ket? A tudatossgodon kvl ltezik
valami?
K: Anlkl ltezhet is, hogy valaha is tudnk rla.
M: Mifle ltezs lenne az? Elvlhat-e a lt a
tudstl? Minden ltezs, mint ahogy minden tuds
is, veled fgg ssze. Egy dolog azrt van, mert te
tudsz rla, mert tapasztalod, illetve benne van az
letedben. Tested s elmd addig ltezik, amg gy
hiszed. Hagyd abba azt gondolni, hogy a tieid, s
azonnal szertefoszlanak. Termszetesen engedd
meg, hogy tested s elmd funkcionljanak, de ne
engedd meg nekik, hogy korltozzanak tged. Ha
tkletlensgeket veszel szre, csak emlkezz:
rjuk irnytott teljes figyelmed helyre igaztja
szvedet, elmdet s testedet.
K: Meg tudom gygytani komoly betegsgemet
pusztn azzal, hogy tudomsul veszem?
M: Irnytsd r teljes tudomsodat, de ne csak a
kls tnetekre. Minden betegsg az elmben
kezddik. Viseld gondjt elszr az elmnek, az
sszes rossz idea s emci kvetsvel s
kikszblsvel. Azutn lj s mkdj figyelmen
kvl hagyva a betegsget, s nem gondolva r
tbb. Az okok eltvoltsval a hatsnak is
tvoznia kell.
Az ember azz vlik, aminek hiszi magt. Adj fel
minden idet magadrl, s gy fogod tallni
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
yourself to be the pure witness, beyond all that can
happen to the body or the mind.
Q: If I become anything I think myself to be, and I
start thinking that I am the Supreme Reality, will not
my Supreme Reality remain a mere idea?
M: First reach that state and then ask the question.
49. Mind Causes Insecurity
Questioner: People come to you for advice. How do Krdez: Az emberek tancsrt jnnek hozzd.
you know what to answer? Honnan tudod, mi a helyes vlasz?
Maharaj: As I hear the question, so do I hear the
answer.
Q: And how do you know that your answer is right?
M: Once I know the true source of the answers, I
need not doubt them. From a pure source only pure
water will flow. I am not concerned with people's
desires and fears. I am in tune with facts, not with
opinions. Man takes his name and shape to be
himself, while I take nothing to be myself. Were I to
think myself to be a body known by its name, I would
not have been able to answer your questions. Were
I to take you to be a mere body, there would be no
benefit to you from my answers. No true teacher
indulges in opinions. He sees things as they are and
shows them as they are. If you take people to be
what they think themselves to be, you will only hurt
them, as they hurt themselves so grievously all the
time. But if you see them as they are in reality, it will
do them enormous good. If they ask you what to do,
what practices to adopt, which way of life to follow,
answer: 'Do nothing, just be. In being all happens
naturally.'
Q: It seems to me that in your talks you use the
words 'naturally' and 'accidentally' indiscriminately. I
feel there is a deep difference in the meaning of the
two words. The natural is orderly, subject to law; one
can trust nature; the accidental is chaotic,
unexpected, unpredictable. One could plead that
everything is natural, subject to nature's laws; to
maintain that everything is accidental, without any
cause, is surely an exaggeration.
M: Would you like it better if I use the word
'spontaneous' instead of 'accidental'?
213
nmagad, hogy a tiszta tan vagy, aki fltte ll
mindennek, ami a testtel s az elmvel trtnhet.
K: Ha brminek gondolom magam azz vlok, s
elkezdem azt gondolni, hogy n vagyok a
Legfelsbb Valsg, akkor nem fog Legfelsbb
Valsgom puszta idev vlni?
M: Elszr rd el ezt az llapotot, majd azutn tedd
fel ezt a krdst.
49. Az elme veszlyeztettsget okoz
Maharaj: Ahogy a krdst hallom, gy a vlaszt is
hallom.
K: s honnan tudod, hogy a vlaszod helyes?
M: Mivel ismerem a vlaszok igazi forrst, nem kell
ktelkednem bennk. Tiszta forrsbl csak tiszta vz
folyik. Nem foglalkozom emberi vgyakkal s
flelmekkel. Tnyekkel vagyok sszhangban, nem
vlemnyekkel. Az emberek nevkkel s
formjukkal azonostjk magukat, mg n semminek
nem tartom magam. Ha a nevn ismert testnek
gondolnm magam, nem lennk kpes a
krdseidre vlaszolni. Ha puszta testnek
tartanlak, nem lenne hasznod a vlaszaimbl. Egy
igazi tant sem ad vlemnyekre. gy ltja a
dolgokat, ahogy azok vannak, s olyannak mutatja
ket, ahogy azok vannak. Ha annak tartod az
embereket, aminek azok gondoljk magukat, akkor
csak megsebzed ket, csakgy, ahogy k is oly
fjdalmasan sebzik magukat, folyamatosan. De ha
olyannak ltod ket, mint amilyenek valjban,
akkor mrhetetlen jt cselekszel velk. Ha
megkrdik tled, hogy mit csinljanak, milyen
gyakorlatot vlasszanak, milyen letmdot
kvessenek, a felelet: Ne csinlj semmit, csak
legyl. A ltezsben minden termszetes mdon
trtnik.
K: gy vettem szre, hogy a beszlgetsek sorn
sszekevered a termszetes s a vletlen
szavakat. gy rzem, mlysges klnbsg van a
kt sz jelentse kztt. A termszet rendszeres,
trvnyeknek alvetett; az ember megbzhat a
termszetben; a vletlen kaotikus, vratlan,
megjsolhatatlan. Lehetne rvelni, hogy minden
termszetes, termszeti trvnyeknek alvetett; azt
lltani, hogy minden vletlenszer, mindenfle ok
nlkli, bizonyra tlzs.
M: Jobban szeretnd, ha a spontn szt
hasznlnm a vletlen helyett?
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: You may use the word 'spontaneous' or 'natural'
as opposed to 'accidental'. In the accidental there is
the element of disorder, of chaos. An accident is
always a breach of rules, an exception, a surprise.
M: Is not life itself a stream of surprises?
Q: There is harmony in nature. The accidental is a
disturbance.
M: You speak as a person, limited in time and
space, reduced to the contents of a body and a
mind. What you like, you call 'natural' and what you
dislike, you call 'accidental'.
Q: I like the natural, and the law-abiding, the
expected and I fear the law-breaking, the disorderly,
the unexpected, the meaningless. The accidental is
always monstrous. There may be so-called 'lucky
accidents', but they only prove the rule that in an
accident-prone universe life would be impossible.
M: I feel there is a misunderstanding. By 'accidental'
I mean something to which no known law applies.
When I say everything is accidental, uncaused, I
only mean that the causes and the laws according to
which they operate are beyond our knowing, or even
imagining. If you call what you take to be orderly,
harmonious, predictable, to be natural, then what
obeys higher laws and is moved by higher powers
may be called spontaneous. Thus, we shall have
two natural orders: the personal and predictable and
the impersonal, or super-personal, and
unpredictable. Call it lower nature and higher nature
and drop the word accidental. As you grow in
knowledge and insight, the borderline between lower
and higher nature keeps on receding, but the two
remain until they are seen as one. For, in fact,
everything is most wonderfully inexplicable.
Q: Science explains a lot.
M: Science deals with names and shapes, quantities
and qualities, patterns and laws; it is all right in its
own place. But life is to be lived; there is no time for
analysis. The response must be instantaneous --
hence the importance of the spontaneous, the
timeless. It is in the unknown that we live and move.
The known is the past.
Q: I can take my stand on what I feel I am. I am an
individual, a person among persons. Some people
are integrated and harmonised, and some are not.
Some live effortlessly, respond spontaneously to
214
K: Hasznlhatod a spontn, vagy termszetes
szavakat, a vletlen ellentteknt. A vletlen
magban foglalja a rendezetlensg, a kosz elemt.
A vletlen mindig a szablyok valamifle
megsrtse, kivtel, vratlan dolog.
M: Nemde az let maga is vratlansgok sorozata?
K: A termszet harmniban van. A vletlen ennek
a megzavarsa.
M: Te gy beszlsz, mint egy szemly, idben s
trben korltozottan, a test s az elme tartalmra
reduklva. Amit kedvelsz, azt termszetesnek
nevezed, s amit nem kedvelsz, azt vletlennek.
K: n a termszetest, a trvnytisztelt, s az elre
lthatt szeretem, s flek a trvnysrttl, a
rendbonttl, a vratlantl, s az rtelmetlentl. A
vletlen mindig szrny. Lehetnek gynevezett
szerencss vletlenek, de azok erstik a szablyt,
hogy egy vletlenre hajlamos univerzumban
lehetetlen lenne az let.
M: Azt hiszem, flrerted. Vletlen alatt n valami
olyat rtek, amire nem vonatkozik ismert trvny.
Amikor azt mondom, hogy minden vletlenszer,
spontn, azalatt csak azt rtem, hogy az okok s
mkdsi trvnyek meghaladjk tudsunkat, de
mg kpzeletnket is. Ha a szablyost, harmonikust,
megjsolhatt termszetesnek nevezed, akkor ami
felsbb trvnyeknek engedelmeskedik, s felsbb
erk ltal mozgatott, spontnnak nevezheted. Ily
mdon kt termszetes rendszernk lesz: a
szemlyes s megjsolhat, s a szemlytelen,
vagy szemly-feletti, ami megjsolhatatlan. Nevezd
alsbb termszetnek s felsbb termszetnek, s
ejtsd azt a szt, hogy vletlen. Ahogy tudsod,
szellemi megltsod gyarapodik, gy hzdik vissza
az alsbb s a felsbb termszet kztti hatrvonal,
de a kett egszen addig megmarad, amg egynek
nem fognak ltszani. Mert valjban minden a
legcsodlatosabb mdon megmagyarzhatatlan.
K: A tudomny sok mindent megmagyarz.
M: A tudomny nevekkel s formkkal,
mennyisgekkel s minsgekkel, mintkkal s
trvnyekkel foglalkozik; mindez helynval a maga
terletn. De az letet lni kell; nincs id elemzsre.
A vlasznak azonnalinak kell lennie ebbl ered a
spontn, az idtlen fontossga. Amit lnk s
alaktunk, az az ismeretlenben van. Ami ismert, az a
mlt.
K: n azt tudom elfogadni, hogy amit rzek, az
vagyok n. Egy individuum vagyok, egy szemly a
sok kzl. Egyes emberek integrltak s
harmonikusak, msok nem azok. Vannak, akik
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
every situation correctly, doing full justice to the
need of the moment, while others fumble, err and
generally make a nuisance of themselves. The
harmonised people may be called natural, ruled by
law, while the disintegrated are chaotic and subject
to accidents.
M: The very idea of chaos presupposes the sense of M: A kosz ideja valjban a rendszeres, a
the orderly, the organic, the inter-related. Chaos and szervezett, az sszefgg rzett elfelttelezi.
cosmos: are they not two aspects of the same state? Kosz s kozmosz: nem egyazon llapot kt oldala?
Q: But you seem to say that all is chaos, accidental,
unpredictable.
M: Yes, in the sense that not all the laws of being
are known and not all events are predictable. The
more you are able to understand, the more the
universe becomes satisfactory, emotionally and
mentally. Reality is good and beautiful; we create
the chaos.
Q: If you mean to say that it is the free will of man
that causes accidents, I would agree. But we have
not yet discussed free will.
M: Your order is what gives you pleasure and
disorder is what gives you pain.
Q: You may put it that way, but do not tell me that
the two are one. Talk to me in my own language --
the language of an individual in search of happiness.
I do not want to be misled by non-dualistic talks.
M: What makes you believe that you are a separate
individual?
Q: I behave as an individual. I function on my own. I
consider myself primarily, and others only in relation
to myself. In short, I am busy with myself.
M: Well, go on being busy with yourself. On what
business have you come here?
Q: On my old business of making myself safe and
happy. I confess I have not been too successful. I
am neither safe nor happy. Therefore, you find me
here. This place is new to me, but my reason for
coming here is old: the search for safe happiness,
happy safety. So far I did not find it. Can you help
me?
M: What was never lost can never be found. Your
very search for safety and joy keeps you away from
them. Stop searching, cease losing. The disease is
simple and the remedy equally simple. It is your
mind only that makes you insecure and unhappy.
215
erfeszts mentesen lnek, reakcijuk minden
szituciban spontn mdon helyes, teljes
prtatlansggal viszonyulnak a pillanat
szksglethez, mg msok gyetlenek, hibznak,
s rendszerint knyelmetlensget okoznak
msoknak. A harmonikus ember termszetesnek,
trvnyszernek nevezhet, mg a dezintegrlt
kaotikusnak s vletlenszernek.
K: De nekem gy tnik, hogy szerinted minden
kaotikus, vletlen, megjsolhatatlan.
M: Igen,abban az rtelemben, hogy a ltnek nem
minden trvnye ismert, s nem minden esemny
megjsolhat. Minl tbbet vagy kpes megrteni,
az univerzum emocionlis s mentlis rtelemben
annl megnyugtatbb vlik. A valsg j s szp;
mi teremtjk a koszt.
K: Ha azt akarod mondani, hogy az ember szabad
akarata okozza a vletleneket, egyetrtek. De mg
nem beszltnk szabad akaratrl.
M: Nlad a rend az, ami neked rmt okoz, s a
rendetlensg az, ami fjdalmat.
K: Fogalmazhatsz gy, de olyat ne mondj, hogy a
kett egy. Hozzm a sajt nyelvemen beszlj a
boldogsgot keres egyn nyelvn. Nem akarok
tvtra kerlni non-dualista beszdekkel.
M: Mirt hiszed azt, hogy klnll szemly vagy?
K: gy viselkedek, mint egy individuum. Magamtl
funkcionlok. nmagamat tekintem elsdlegesek,
msokat pedig csak velem kapcsolatban llnak.
Rviden, nmagammal vagyok elfoglalva.
M: Nos, lgy csak tovbbra is nmagaddal
elfoglalva. Milyen gyben jttl ide?
K: Rgi trekvsem, hogy biztonsgban s
boldogsgban tudjam magam. Bevallom, nem tl
sikeresen. Nem rtem el sem a biztonsgot, sem a
boldogsgot. Ezrt ltsz most itt. Ez a hely j
szmomra, de az ok, ami idehozott, a rgi: a
biztonsgos boldogsg, a boldog biztonsg
keresse. Idig nem talltam meg. Tudsz nekem
segteni?
M: Ami soha nem veszett el, azt soha nem lehet
megtallni. ppen biztonsg- s rmkeressed tart
tvol tlk. Hagyd abba a keresst, fejezd be a
vesztst. A betegsg egyszer, s a gygyszer
ugyanolyan egyszer. Elmd az, amely
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Anticipation makes you insecure, memory --
unhappy. Stop misusing your mind and all will be
well with you. You need not set it right -- it will set
itself right, as soon as you give up all concern with
the past and the future and live entirely in the now.
Q: But the now has no dimension. I shall become a
nobody, a nothing.
M: Exactly. As nothing and nobody you are safe and M: Pontosan. Semmiknt s senkiknt biztonsgban
happy. You can have the experience for the asking. s boldog vagy. Rendelkezhetsz a tapasztalattal,
Just try. hogy krdezz. Csak prblkozz.
But let us go back to what is accidental and what is
spontaneous, or natural. You said nature is orderly
while accident is a sign of chaos. I denied the
difference and said that we call an event accidental
when its causes are untraceable. There is no place
for chaos in nature. Only in the mind of man there is
chaos. The mind does not grasp the whole -- its
focus is very narrow. It sees fragments only and fails
to perceive the picture. Just as a man who hears
sounds, but does not understand the language, may
accuse the speaker of meaningless jabbering, and
be altogether wrong. What to one is a chaotic
stream of sounds is a beautiful poem to another.
King Janaka once dreamt that he was a beggar. On
waking up he asked his Guru -- Vasishta: Am I a
king dreaming of being a beggar, or a beggar
dreaming of being a king? The Guru answered: You
are neither, you are both. You are, and yet you are
not what you think yourself to be. You are because
you behave accordingly; you are not because it does
not last. Can you be a king or a beggar for ever? All
must change. You are what does not change. What
are you? Janaka said: Yes, I am neither king nor
beggar, I am the dispassionate witness. The Guru
said. This is your last illusion that you are a gnani,
that you are different from, and superior to, the
common man. Again you identify yourself with your
mind, in this case a well-behaved and in every way
an exemplary mind. As long as you see the least
difference, you are a stranger to reality. You are on
the level of the mind. When the 'I am myself' goes,
the 'I am all' comes. When the 'I am all' goes, 'I am'
comes. When even 'I am' goes, reality alone is and
in it every 'I am' is preserved and glorified. Diversity
without separateness is the Ultimate that the mind
can touch. Beyond that all activity ceases, because
in it all goals are reached and all purposes fulfilled.
Q: Once the Supreme State is reached, can it be
shared with others?
216
bizonytalann s boldogtalann tesz. Az elvrs
bizonytalann tesz, az emlkezet boldogtalann.
Vess vget elmd tves hasznlatnak, s jl fogod
magad rezni. Nem kell rend behozni rend
behozza az magt, mihelyt minden kapcsolatot
feladsz a mlttal s a jvvel, s teljes egszben a
mostban lsz.
K: De a mostnak nincs dimenzija. Senkiv s
semmiv vlnk.
De trjnk r vissza, hogy mi a vletlen s mi a
spontn, vagy termszetes. Azt mondtad, hogy a
termszet rendszeres, mg a vletlen a kosz jele.
n elutastottam a klnbsget, s azt mondtam,
hogy egy esemnyt akkor neveznk
vletlenszernek, amikor annak okai
kinyomozhatatlanok. A termszetben nincs helye
kosznak. Csak az ember elmjben van kosz. Az
elme nem az egszet ragadja meg fkusza
nagyon szk. Csak tredkeket lt, s a kpet
gyengn szleli. Akr az az ember, aki hallja a
hangokat, de a nyelvet nem ismervn a beszlt
hibztatja az rtelmetlen fecsegsrt, s gy esik
vgs soron tvedsbe.
Janaka kirly egyszer koldusnak lmodta magt.
Felbredsekor azt krdezte Gurujtl Vashista:
kirly vagyok, aki koldusnak lmodja magt, vagy
koldus vagyok, aki azt lmodja, hogy kirly? A Guru
gy vlaszolt: Egyik sem te vagy, mindkett te vagy.
Az vagy, s mgsem vagy az, aminek gondolod
magad. Az vagy, mert a szerint viselkedsz; s nem
vagy az, mert az nem marad fenn. Lehetsz-e kirly
vagy koldus mindrkk? Mindennek vltoznia kell.
Te az vagy, ami nem vltozik. Mi vagy te? Janaka:
igen, sem kirly, sem koldus nem vagyok, n a
prtatlan tan vagyok. A Guru azt mondta. Ez az
utols illzid, hogy gnaninak hiszed magad, hogy
az tlagemberhez kpest msnak, s
felsbbrendnek. Viszont azonostod nmagad az
elmddel, ez esetben egy jl szitult, s minden
tekintetben mintaszer elmvel. Amg a
legcseklyebb klnbsget is ltod, addig idegen
tled a valsg. Az elme szintjn vagy. Amikor az
n nmagam vagyok tvozik, az n minden
vagyok megrkezik. Az n vagyok tvozsakor
egyedl a valsg van, s benne minden n
vagyok megmarad s megdicsl. Az elklnls
nlkli klnbzsg a Vgs, amit az elme meg tud
rinteni. Ezen tl minden tevkenysg megsznik,
mert benne minden cl elrsre kerlt s minden
szndk beteljeslt.
K: A Legfelsbb llapotot elrve, megoszthat-e az
msokkal?
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
M: The Supreme State is universal, here and now;
everybody already shares in it. It is the state of being
-- knowing and liking. Who does not like to be, or
does not know his own existence? But we take no
advantage of this joy of being conscious, we do not
go into it and purify it of all that is foreign to it. This
work of mental self-purification, the cleansing of the
psyche, is essential. Just as a speck in the eye, by
causing inflammation, may wipe out the world, so
the mistaken idea: 'I am the body-mind' causes the
self-concern, which obscures the universe. It is
useless to fight the sense of being a limited and
separate person unless the roots of it are laid bare.
Selfishness is rooted in the mistaken ideas of
oneself. Clarification of the mind is Yoga.
50. Self-awareness is the Witness
Questioner: You told me that I can be considered
under three aspects: the personal (vyakti), the
super-personal (vyakta) and the impersonal
(avyakta). The avyakta is the universal and real pure
'I'; the vyakta is its reflection in consciousness as I
am'; the vyakti is the totality of physical and vital
processes. Within the narrow confines of the present
moment, the super-personal is aware of the person,
both in space and time; not only one person, but the
long series of persons strung together on the thread
of karma. It is essentially the witness as well as the
residue of the accumulated experiences, the seat of
memory, the connecting link (sutratma). It is man's
character which life builds and shapes from birth to
birth. The universal is beyond all name and shape,
beyond consciousness and character, pure un-
selfconscious being. Did I put down your views
rightly?
Maharaj: On the level of the mind -- yes. Beyond the Maharaj: Az elme szintjn igen. A mentlis szinten
mental level not a word applies. tlira semmilyen sz nem alkalmazhat.
Q: I can understand that the person is a mental
construct, a collective noun for a set of memories
and habits. But, he to whom the person happens,
the witnessing centre, is it mental too?
M: The personal needs a base, a body to identify
oneself with, just as a colour needs a surface to
appear on. The seeing of the colour is independent
of the colour -- it is the same whatever the colour.
One needs an eye to see a colour. The colours are
many, the eye is single. The personal is like the light
in the colour and also in the eye, yet simple, single,
indivisible and unperceivable, except in its
manifestations. Not unknowable, but unperceivable,
un-objectival, inseparable. Neither material nor
217
M: A Legfelsbb llapot univerzlis, itt s most; mr
mindenki rszese. Ez a ltezs llapota tuds s
szeretet. Ki ne szeretn, hogy ltezik, vagy hogy tud
sajt ltezsrl? De nem kovcsolunk elnyt a
tudatos lt ezen rmbl, nem merlnk bele s
nem tiszttjuk meg teljesen mindentl, ami idegen
tle. Ez a mentlis n-tisztt munka, pszich
tisztts, elsrend fontossg. Mint ahogy a
szembe kerl porszem is, gyulladst keltve,
eltntetheti a vilgot, ugyangy okoz az n vagyok
a test-elme flrertett ideja nrdekeltsget,
elhomlyostva az univerzumot. Haszontalan dolog
egy korltozott s elklnlt szemly ltnek az
rzsrt harcolni, kivve, ha annak gykerei
feltrsra kerlnek. Az nzs az nmagam tves
ideiban gykerezik. Az elme tisztts a Yoga.
50. Az n-tudoms a tan
Krdez: Azt mondtad, n hrom szempont alapjn
vagyok szemllhet, ezek: a szemlyes (vyakti), a
szemly-fltti (vyakta), s a szemlytelen
(avyakta). Az avyakta az univerzlis s valsgos
tiszta n; a vyakta ennek a tudatossgban n-
vagyok-knt val tkrzdse; a vyakti a fizikai s
letfolyamatok sszessge. A jelen pillanat szk
mezsgyjn a szemly-flttinek tudatban van a
szemlynek, mind trben, mind idben; de nem csak
egyetlen szemlynek, hanem a karma fonalra
egytt feszl szemlyek hossz sorozatnak. Ez
lnyegben a tan, valamint a felgylemlett
tapasztalatok ledke, az emlkezet talapzata, az
sszekt kapocs (sutratama). Az embert jellemzi,
hogy milyen lete pl fel, s alakul szletsrl
szletsre. Az univerzlis minden nven s formn
fell ll, tudatossgon s szemlyisgen tli, tisztn
ntudatossg nlkli ltezsen tli. Helyesen
fogalmaztam meg a nzeteidet?
K: Azt rtem, hogy a szemly egy mentlis
konstrukci, emlkek s szoksok egy kszletnek a
gyjtneve. De, aki szmra a szemly megjelenik,
a tansg kzpontja, az szintn mentlis?
M: A szemlynek szksge van egy alapra, egy
testre, amivel azonostja magt, mint ahogy egy
sznnek szksge van egy felletre, amelyen
megjelenik. A szn ltsa fggetlen a szntl az
minden szn esetben ugyanaz. Az embernek
szemre van szksge, hogy szneket lsson. A szn
sok, a szem egyedi. A szemly, a fnyhez
hasonlan, benne van a sznben s a szemben is,
mgis egyszer, egyedi, lthatatlan s
szlelhetetlen, kivve annak megnyilvnulsait.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
mental, neither objective nor subjective, it is the root Nem megismerhetetlen, de szlelhetetlen,
of matter and the source of consciousness. Beyond objektivlhatatlan, oszthatatlan. Se nem anyagi, se
mere living and dying, it is the all-inclusive, all- nem mentlis, se nem objektv, se nem szubjektv, a
exclusive Life, in which birth is death and death is dolog lnyege, s a tudatossg forrsa. A puszta
birth. leten s hallon tl a mindent magban foglal s
a mindent kizr let van, amelyben a szlets
hall, s a hall szlets.

Q: The Absolute or Life you talk about, is it real, or a K: Ez az Abszolt, vagy let, amirl beszlsz,
mere theory to cover up our ignorance? valsgos, vagy teria csupn, amelynek a clja,
hogy tudatlansgunkat palstolja?

M: Both. To the mind, a theory; in itself -- a reality. It
is reality in its spontaneous and total rejection of the
false. Just as light destroys darkness by its very
presence, so does the absolute destroy imagination.
To see that all knowledge is a form of ignorance is
itself a movement of reality. The witness is not a
person. The person comes into being when there is
a basis for it, an organism, a body. In it the absolute
is reflected as awareness. Pure awareness
becomes self-awareness. When there is a self, self-
awareness is the witness. When there is no self to
witness, there is no witnessing either. It is all very
simple; it is the presence of the person that
complicates. See that there is no such thing as a
permanently separate person and all becomes clear.
Awareness -- mind -- matter -- they are one reality in
its two aspects as immovable and movable, and the
three attributes of inertia, energy and harmony.
M: Mindkett. Az elme szmra teria; nmagban
vve valsg. Valsg az spontn s teljes
elutastsban a hamisnak. Mint ahogy a fny a
jelenltvel megsemmisti a sttsget, gy
semmisti meg az abszolt a kpzeldst. Lthat,
hogy minden tuds a tudatlansg egy formja,
nmagban a valsgnak a mozgsa. A tan nem
szemly. A szemly akkor jn ltre, amikor megvan
hozz az alap, egy organizmus, egy test. Amiben az
abszolt tkrzdik, mint tudoms. A tiszta
tudatossg ntudomss vlik. Amikor van n, az
ntudoms a tan. Amikor nincs n, hogy tan
legyen, tansg sincs. Mindez nagyon egyszer; a
szemly jelenlte az, ami a dolgokat sszezavarja.
Lsd, hogy nincs olyan dolog, mint tartsan
elklnl szemly, s minden tiszta lesz. Tudoms
elme anyag ezek egyazon valsg, a
mozdthatatlan s mozdthat kt aspektusval, s a
tehetetlensg, energia s harmnia hrom
attribtumval.

Q: What comes first: consciousness or awareness? K: Melyik van elbb: a tudatossg, vagy a tudoms?

M: Awareness becomes consciousness when it has M: A tudoms vlik tudatossgg, amikor egy
an object. The object changes all the time. In objektummal br. Az objektum llandan vltozik. A
consciousness there is movement; awareness by tudatossgban mozgs van; a tudoms nmagban
itself is motionless and timeless, here and now. mozdulatlan s idtlen, itt- s mostbeli.

Q: There is suffering and bloodshed in East K: szak Pakisztnban e pillanatban csupa

Pakistan at the present moment. How do you look at szenveds, s vronts. Hogy ltod ezt? Hogyan
it? How does it appear to you, how do you react to jelenik meg szmodra, hogyan reaglsz r?
it?

M: In pure consciousness nothing ever happens. M: A tiszta tudatossgban soha semmi nem trtnik.

Q: Please come down from these metaphysical
heights. Of what use is it to a suffering man to be
told that nobody is aware of his suffering but
himself? To relegate everything to illusion is insult
added to injury. The Bengali of East Pakistan is a
fact and his suffering is a fact. Please, do not
analyse them out of existence. You are reading
newspapers, you hear people talking about it. You
cannot plead ignorance. Now, what is your attitude
to what is happening?
K: Krlek, szllj al a metafizikai magassgokbl. Mi
haszna egy szenved ember szmra, hogy senki
nincs tudatban az szenvedsnek, csak maga?
Mindent az illziba szmzni az igazsgtalansg
tetzse. Az szak Pakisztnbeli Bengali valsg,
s szenvedse valsg. Krlek, ne elemezd ezeket
a ltezsen kvl. Olvasol jsgokat, hallasz rla
embereket beszlni. Nem hivatkozhatsz
tudatlansgra. Nos, mi az llsfoglalsod a
trtnsekkel kapcsolatban?

M: No attitude. Nothing is happening. M: Nincs llsfoglalsom. Semmi nem trtnik.

218
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: Any day there may be a riot right in front of you, K: Brmelyik nap elfordulhat, hogy ppen eltted
perhaps people killing each other. Surely you cannot zavargs tmad, amiben egymst lik az emberek.
say: nothing is happening and remain aloof. Biztos, hogy nem tudod azt mondani, hogy nem
trtnik semmi, aztn szenvtelen maradsz.

M: I never talked of remaining aloof. You could as M: Soha nem beszltem szenvtelennek maradsrl.
well see me jumping into the fray to save somebody Ugyangy azt is megfigyelhetnd, hogy beugrom az
and getting killed. Yet to me nothing happened. sszetzsbe megakadlyozni, hogy megljenek
valakit. Mgis, szmomra semmi nem trtnik.

Imagine a big building collapsing. Some rooms are
in ruins, some are intact. But can you speak of the
space as ruined or intact? It is only the structure that
suffered and the people who happened to live in it.
Nothing happened to space itself. Similarly, nothing
happens to life when forms break down and names
are wiped out. The goldsmith melts down old
ornaments to make new. Sometimes a good piece
goes with the bad. He takes it in his stride, for he
knows that no gold is lost.
Kpzeld el, hogy sszeomlik egy nagy plet. A
szobk egy rsze romba dl, ms rsze srtetlen
marad. De mondhatod-e azt a trrl, hogy sszedlt,
vagy srtetlen? Csak a szerkezet az, ami
krosodott, s azok az emberek esetleg, akik benne
laktak. Magval a trrel semmi nem trtnt. Ehhez
hasonlan semmi sem trtnik az lettel, amikor a
forma sztesik, s a neveket elfelejtik. Az
aranymves beolvasztja a rgi kszert, hogy jat
ksztsen. Nmelykor egy-egy j darab is egytt
megy a rosszal. tlp rajta, mert tudja, hogy nincs
elveszett arany.

Q: It is not death that I rebel against. It is the manner K: Nem a hall ellen lzadok. A hall mdja ellen.
of dying.

M: Death is natural, the manner of dying is man- M: A hall termszetes, a meghalsi md a

made. Separateness causes fear and aggression,
which again cause violence. Do away with man-
made separations and all this horror of people killing
each other will surely end. But in reality there is no
killing and no dying. The real does not die, the
unreal never lived. Set your mind right and all will be
right. When you know that the world is one, that
humanity is one, you will act accordingly. But first of
all you must attend to the way you feel, think and
live. Unless there is order in yourself, there can be
no order in the world.
mestersges. Az elklnls flelmet s agresszit
von maga utn, ami megint csak erszakhoz vezet.
Vess vget a mestersges elklnlseknek, s az
emberek gyilkolszsnak a rettenete is biztosan
vge tr. De valjban nincs ls, s nincs hall. A
valdi nem hal meg, a valtlan sosem lt. Hozd
rendbe az elmdet, s minden ms is rendben lesz.
Amikor felismered, hogy a vilg egy, hogy az
emberisg egy, megfelelen fogsz cselekedni. De
elszr azt az utat kell kvetned, amelyet rzel,
gondolsz s lsz. Hacsak nincs benned rend, a
vilgban sem lehet rend.

In reality nothing happens. Onto the screen of the
mind destiny forever projects its pictures, memories
of former projections and thus illusion constantly
renews itself. The pictures come and go -- light
intercepted by ignorance. See the light and
disregard the picture.
Valjban semmi nem trtnik. A sors folytonosan
rvetti kpeit, a korbbi projekcik emlkeit az elme
vettvsznra, s gy az illzi folytonosan
megjtja nmagt. Jnnek s mennek a kpek a
fnyt felfogja a tudatlansg. Nzd a fnyt, s hagyd
figyelmen kvl a kpet.

Q: What a callous way of looking at things. People K: Milyen rzketlenl szemlled a dolgokat. Az
are killing and getting killed and here you talk of emberek lnek, s meglik ket, s te itt kpekrl
pictures. beszlsz.

M: By all means go and get killed yourself -- if that is
what you think you should do. Or even go and kill, if
you take it to be your duty. But that is not the way to
end the evil. Evil is the stench of a mind that is
diseased. Heal your mind and it will cease to project
distorted, ugly pictures.
M: Csak rajta, menj, s lesd meg magad ha gy
gondolod, akkor meg kell tenned. Vagy inkbb menj,
s lj te, ha ezt tartod feladatodnak. De nem ez a
mdja, hogy vget vess a gonosznak. A gonosz a
beteg elme bze. Gygytsd meg az elmdet, s
abba fogja hagyni a torz, csnya kpek kivettst.

Q: What you say I understand, but emotionally I K: Amit mondasz, azt rtem, de rzelmileg nem
cannot accept it. This merely idealistic view of life tudom elfogadni. Ez csupn egy idealisztikus kpe

219
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
repels me deeply. I just cannot think myself to be
permanently in a state of dream.
M: How can anybody be permanently in a state
caused by an impermanent body? The
misunderstanding is based on your idea that you are
the body. Examine the idea, see its inherent
contradictions, realise that your present existence is
like a shower of sparks, each spark lasting a second
and the shower itself -- a minute or two. Surely a
thing of which the beginning is the end, can have no
middle. Respect your terms. Reality cannot be
momentary. It is timeless, but timelessness is not
duration.
Q: I admit that the world in which I live is not the real
world. But there is a real world, of which I see a
distorted picture. The distortion may be due to some
blemish in my body or mind. But when you say there
is no real world, only a dream world in my mind, I
just cannot take it. I wish I could believe that all
horrors of existence are due to my having a body.
Suicide would be the way out.
M: As long as you pay attention to ideas, your own
or of others, you will be in trouble. But if you
disregard all teachings, all books, anything out into
words and dive deeply within yourself and find
yourself, this alone will solve all your problems and
leave you in full mastery of every situation, because
you will not be dominated by your ideas about the
situation. Take an example. You are in the company
of an attractive woman. You get ideas about her and
this creates a sexual situation. A problem is created
and you start looking for books on continence, or
enjoyment. Were you a baby, both of you could be
naked and together without any problem arising.
Just stop thinking you are the bodies and the
problems of love and sex will lose their meaning.
With all sense of limitation gone, fear, pain and the
search for pleasure -- all cease. Only awareness
remains.
51. Be Indifferent to Pain and Pleasure
Questioner: I am a Frenchman by birth and
domicile and since about ten years I have been
practicing Yoga.
Maharaj: After ten years of work are you anywhere
nearer your goal?
220
az letnek, amely engem mlysgesen taszt. n
csak nem tudom azt gondolni magamrl, hogy
folyamatosan lmodom.
M: Hogyan lehet valaki folyamatosan a mland test
ltal meghatrozott llapotban? Flrertsednek
azon elkpzelsed az alapja, hogy te a test vagy.
Vizsgld fell ezt az elkpzelst, lsd bels
ellentmondsait, ismerd fel, hogy jelen ltezsed
szikrk zporhoz hasonl, minden szikra egy
msodpercig tart, s a zpor maga egy percig,
vagy kettig. Nyilvnval, hogy amely dolognak a
kezdete a vg, annak nem lehet kzepe. Vedd
szmba terminusaidat. A valsg nem lehet
pillanatnyi. A valsg idtlen, de az idtlensgnek
nincs idtartama.
K: Elfogadom, hogy a vilg, amelyben lek, nem a
valdi vilg. De van egy valdi vilg, amelynek ltom
a torzkpt. A torzuls a miatt lehet, hogy testemben
vagy elmmben valamilyen hiba van. De mikor azt
mondod, hogy nincs valdi vilg, csak egy lomvilg
az elmmben, azt nem tudom elfogadni. Szeretnm
hinni, hogy a ltezs borzalmai azrt vannak, mert
testem van. Az ngyilkossg lehetne a kit.
M: Amg ideknak szentelsz figyelmet, a
sajtjaidnak, vagy a msoknak, bajban leszel. De
ha figyelmen kvl hagysz minden tantst, minden
knyvet, mindent, amit szavakba foglaltak, s
mlyen magadba merlsz, s megtallod
nmagadat, nmagban ez meg fogja oldani minden
problmdat, s teljesen uralni fogsz minden
helyzetet, mert nem leszel rabja a helyzettel
kapcsolatos ideknak. Vegynk egy pldt. Egy
vonz n trsasgban vagy. Gondolataid
tmadnak rla, ami egy szexulis szitucit teremt.
Egy problma keletkezett, s elkezdesz
nmegtartztatsrl, vagy lvezetekrl szl
knyveket keresni. Ha csecsem lennl, lehetntek
akr meztelenl is egytt, anlkl, hogy brmilyen
problma felmerlne. Csak hagyd abba azt
gondolni, hogy te a test vagy, s a szerelemmel s a
szexszel kapcsolatos problmk elvesztik
jelentsgket. A korltozottsg sszes rzsnek
eltvozsval a flelem, a kn s az rzki rmk
keresse mind megsznik. Csak a tudoms
marad.
51. Lgy kzmbs a fjdalommal s az
rmmel szemben
Krdez: Franciaorszgban szlettem s lek, s
kzel tz ve gyakorlom a Yogt.
Maharaj: Tz v munka utn valamivel kzelebb
vagy a clodhoz?
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: A little nearer, maybe. It is hard work, you know.
M: The Self is near and the way to it is easy. All you
need doing is doing nothing.
Q: Yet I found my sadhana very difficult.
M: Your sadhana is to be. The doing happens. Just
be watchful. Where is the difficulty in remembering
that you are? Your are all the time.
Q: The sense of being is there all the time -- no
doubt. But the field of attention is often overrun by all
sorts of mental events -- emotions, images, ideas.
The pure sense of being is usually crowded out.
M: What is your procedure for clearing the mind of
the unnecessary? What are your means, your tools
for the purification of the mind?
Q: Basically, man is afraid. He is afraid of himself
most. I feel I am like a man who is carrying a bomb
that is going to explode. He cannot defuse it, he
cannot throw it away. He is terribly frightened and is
searching frantically for a solution, which he cannot
find. To me liberation is getting rid of this bomb. I do
not know much about the bomb. I only know that it
comes from early childhood. I feel like the frightened
child protesting passionately against not being
loved. The child is craving for love and because he
does not get it, he is afraid and angry. Sometimes I
feel like killing somebody or myself. This desire is so
strong that I am constantly afraid. And I do not know
how to get free from fear.
You see there is a difference between a Hindu mind
and a European mind. The Hindu mind is
comparatively simple. The European is a much more
complex being. The Hindu is basically sattvic. He
does not understand the Europeans restlessness,
his tireless pursuit of what he thinks needs be done;
his greater general knowledge.
M: His reasoning capacity is so great, that he will
reason himself out of all reason. His self-
assertiveness is due to his reliance on logic.
Q: But thinking, reasoning is the minds normal
state. The mind just cannot stop working.
M: It may be the habitual state, but it need not be
the normal state. A normal state cannot be painful,
221
K: Egy kicsit, taln. Tudod, ez nehz dolog.
M: Kzel az n, s knny a hozz vezet t.
Mindssze annyit kell tenned, hogy nem csinlsz
semmit.
K: De n gy rzem, hogy nagyon fraszt a
sadhanm.
M: A te sadhand az, hogy legyl. A cselekvs
trtnik. Csak lgy ber. Mirt nehz arra emlkezni,
hogy ki vagy? Te folyamatosan vagy.
K: Ktsgtelen, hogy a lt rzse folyamatos. De a
figyelem tere gyakran mindenfle mentlis
esemnyekkel emcikkal, kpekkel, idekkal
teltdik. A lt egyszer rzse rendszerint httrbe
szorul.
M: Milyen mdon tiszttod meg az elmdet a
felesleges dolgoktl? Milyen mdszereid, eszkzeid
vannak az elme megtiszttsra?
K: Alapesetben az ember fl. Sajt magtl fl a
legjobban. gy rzem magam, mint aki egy
felrobbanni kszl bombt cipel magval. Nem
tudja hatstalantani, nem tudja elhajtani.
Iszonyatosan fl, s rjngve keresi a megoldst,
amit nem tall. Szmomra a megszabadulst ennek
a bombnak az eltvoltsa jelenti. Nem sokat tudok
a bombrl. Csak azt tudom, hogy kora
gyermekkoromtl fogva magammal cipelem. gy
rzem magam, mint riadt gyermek, aki
szenvedlyesen tiltakozik, hogy nem szeretik t. A
gyermek szeretetrt epekedik, s mivel nem kapja
meg, ijedt s dhs. gy rzem olykor, mint aki l,
valakit, vagy sajt magt. Ez a vgy olyan ers,
hogy folyton flek. s nem tudom, hogyan
szabadulhatnk meg a flelemtl.
Tudod, klnbsg van Hindu s eurpai elme kztt.
A Hindu elme viszonylag egyszer. Az eurpai
lnyegesen sokkal inkbb bonyolult. A Hindu
alapveten szattvikus. Nem rti az eurpai
nyugtalansgt, a fradhatatlanul arra irnyul
trekvst, amit megcsinlni szksgesnek gondol;
nagyobb egyetemes tudssal rendelkezik.
M: rvel kpessge oly kivl, hogy le fogja
beszlni magt a jzan szrl. Magabiztossga a
logikjba vetett bizalmbl ered.
K: De a gondolkods, kvetkeztets az elme
szoksos llapota. Az elme aligha tudja abbahagyni
mkdst.
M: Lehet, hogy ez a szoksos llapot, de neki a
normlis llapotra van szksge. A normlis llapot
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
while a habit often leads to chronic pain.
Q: If it is not the natural, or normal state of mind,
then how to stop it? There must be a way to quieten
the mind. How often I tell myself: enough, please
stop, enough of this endless chatter of sentences
repeated round and round. But my mind would not
stop. I feel that one can stop it for a while, but not for
long. Even the so-called spiritual people use tricks
to keep their mind quiet. They repeat formulas, they
sing, pray, breathe forcibly or gently, shake, rotate,
concentrate, meditate, chase trances, cultivate
virtues -- working all the time, in order to cease
working, cease chasing, cease moving. Were it not
so tragic, it would be ridiculous.
M: The mind exists in two states: as water and as
honey. The water vibrates at the least disturbance,
while the honey, however disturbed, returns quickly
to immobility.
Q: By its very nature the mind is restless. It can
perhaps be made quiet, but it is not quiet by itself.
M: You may have a chronic fever and shiver all the
time. It is desires and fears that make the mind
restless. Free from all negative emotions it is quiet.
Q: You cannot protect the child from negative
emotions. As soon as it is born it learns pain and
fear. Hunger is a cruel master and teaches
dependence and hate. The child loves the mother
because she feeds it and hates her because she is
late with food. Our unconscious mind is full of
conflicts, which overflow into the conscious. We live
on a volcano; we are always in danger. I agree that
the company of people whose mind is peaceful has
a very soothing affect, but as soon as I am away
from them, the old trouble starts. This is why I come
periodically to India to seek the company of my
Guru.
M: You think you are coming and going, passing
through various states and moods. I see things as
they are, momentary events, presenting themselves
to me in rapid succession, deriving their being from
me, yet definitely neither me nor mine. Among
phenomena I am not one, nor subject to any. I am
independent so simply and totally, that your mind,
accustomed to opposition and denial, cannot grasp
it. I mean literally what I say; I do not need oppose,
or deny, because it is clear to me that I cannot be
222
nem lehet fjdalmas, mg e szoks gyakran vezet
krnikus fjdalomhoz.
K: Ha nem ez a termszetes, vagy normlis llapot
az elmnek, akkor hogy lehet ezt lelltani? Kell,
hogy legyen valamilyen mdszer az elme
elhallgattatsra. Gyakran mondom magamnak:
elg, llj le krlek, elegem van a vgtelen krkben
ismtld mondatok vg nlkli locsogsbl. De
elmm nem hajland lellni. gy rzem, az ember le
tud llni egy idre, de sem sokig. Mg az
gynevezett spiritulis emberek is trkkket vetnek
be, hogy csendben tartsk elmjket. Formulkat
ismtelgetnek, nekelnek, imdkoznak, erteljesen,
vagy finoman llegeznek, rzkdnak, forognak,
koncentrlnak, meditlnak, transzba merlnek,
ernyeiket csiszolgatjk szakadatlanul annak
rdekben dolgoznak, hogy abbahagyjk a munkt,
abbahagyjk a keresst, abbahagyjk a mozgst.
Ha nem lenne olyan tragikus, akkor nevetsges
lenne.
M: Az elme ktfle llapotban ltezhet: mint a vz, s
mint a mz. A vz a legkisebb zavar hatsra is
megremeg, mg a mz, akrmilyen behats is ri,
gyorsan ismt mozdulatlann vlik.
K: Valdi termszetnl fogva az elme nyugtalan.
Elrheti taln a csend llapott, de nem teljesen
nmagtl.
M: Lehet, hogy krnikus lzad van, s llandan
reszketsz. A vgyak s a flelmek az elmt
nyugtalann teszik. Negatv emciktl mentesen
csendes.
K: Nem tudod megvdeni a gyermeket a negatv
emciktl. Amint megszletik, szenvedni s flni
tanul. Az hsg kegyetlen tant, s fggsget s
gylletet tant. A gyermek szereti anyjt, mert enni
ad neki, s gylli t, mert kslekedik az tellel.
Tudattalan elmnk tele van konfliktusokkal, amelyek
a tudatba tlcsordulnak. Vulkn tetejn lnk;
llandan veszlyben vagyunk. Egyetrtek, hogy az
olyan emberek kzssge, akiknek az elmje bks,
nagyon csillapt hats, de amint eltvozom
krkbl, indul a rgi gond. Ezrt jvk idnknt
Indiba, s keresem Gurum trsasgt.
M: Te gy gondolod, hogy jssz s msz, keresztl
menve klnbz llapotokon s hangulatokon. n
annak ltom a dolgokat, amik, gyorsan egymsutn
megjelen pillanatnyi esemnyek, amelyek bellem
vezetik le ltket, mgis, amelyek hatrozottan nem
n vagyok, sem nem az enymek. n nem vagyok a
jelensgek egyike, sem egyiknek sem alvetett.
Olyan egyszeren s totlisan fggetlen vagyok,
hogy azt a szembelltshoz s tagadshoz szokott
elmd kptelen felfogni. Sz szerint rtem, amit
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
the opposite or denial of anything. I am just beyond,
in a different dimension altogether. Do not look for
me in identification with, or opposition to something:
I am where desire, and fear are not. Now, what is
your experience? Do you also feel that you stand
totally aloof from all transient things?
Q: Yes, I do -- occasionally. But at once a sense of
danger sets in, I feel isolated, outside all relationship
with others. You see, here lies the difference in our
mentalities. With the Hindu, the emotion follows the
thought. Give a Hindu an idea and his emotions are
roused. With the Westerner it is the opposite: give
him an emotion and he will produce an idea. Your
ideas are very attractive -- intellectually, but
emotionally I do not respond.
M: Set your intellect aside. Don't use it in these
matters.
Q: Of what use is an advice which I cannot carry
out? These are all ideas and you want me to
respond feelingly to ideas, for without feelings there
can be no action.
M: Why do you talk of action? Are you acting ever?
Some unknown power acts and you imagine that
you are acting. You are merely watching what
happens, without being able to influence it in any
way.
Q: Why is there such a tremendous resistance in me K: Mirt van bennem ez az iszony ellenlls
against accepting that I just can do nothing? elfogadsa ellen, hogy nem tudok tenni semmit?
M: But what can you do? You are like a patient
under anaesthetics on whom a surgeon performs an
operation. When you wake up you find the operation
over; can you say you have done something?
Q: But it is me who has chosen to submit to an
operation.
M: Certainly not. It is your illness on one side and
the pressure of your physician and family on the
other that have made you decide. You have no
choice, only the illusion of it.
Q: Yet I feel I am not as helpless as you make me
appear. I feel I can do everything I can think of, only
I do not know how. It is not the power I lack, but the
knowledge.
M: Not knowing the means is admittedly as bad as
not having the power. But let us drop the subject for
the moment; after all it is not important why we feel
helpless, as long as we see clearly that for the time
being we are helpless.
223
mondok; nincs szksgem szembelltsra, vagy
tagadsra, mert vilgos szmomra, hogy nem
lehetek ellenkezje, vagy tagadsa semminek: ahol
n vagyok, ott nincs vgy s flelem. Na mr most,
mi is a te tapasztalatod? Te is gy rzed, hogy
totlisan kzmbs vagy minden muland irnt?
K: Igen, n is esetenknt. De amint veszlyt rzek,
gy rzem elszigeteldk, kvl kerlk minden
msokkal val kapcsolaton. Tudod, ebben rejlik
kzttnk a mentalitsbeli klnbsg. Egy hindunl
az emci kveti a gondolatot. Ha egy hindunak
idet adsz, rzelmei keletkeznek. A nyugati ennek
az ellenkezje: adj neki egy emcit, gyrtani fog
egy idet. A te ideid nagyon vonzak
intellektulisan, de emocionlis hatssal nincsenek
rm.
M: Intellektusodat mos tedd flre. Ne hasznld e
vonatkozsban.
K: Mi haszna olyan tancsnak, amelyet nem tudok
kvetni? Ezek mind idek, s te azt vrod, hogy
rzelmekkel reagljak rjuk, mivelhogy rzelmek
nlkl nem lehet cselekedni.
M: Mirt beszlsz cselekvsrl? Te llandan
cselekszel? Bizonyos ismeretlen er cselekszik, s
te azt kpzeled, te cselekszel. Te pusztn figyeled,
ami trtnik, anlkl, hogy brmilyen mdon
hatssal lehetnl r.
M: De mit tudsz tenni? Olyan vagy, akr egy
rzstelents alatt ll beteg, akit a sebsz operl.
Amikor felbredsz felfedezed, hogy az operci
vget rt; mondhatod-e, hogy csinltl valamit?
K: De az n vagyok, aki hozzjrulst adta a
mtthez.
M: Sz sincs rla. A betegsged egyrszrl, orvosod
s csaldod nyomsa a msik rszrl, aminek a
hatsra meghoztad dntsedet. Nincs vlasztsod,
csak annak az illzija.
K: n mgiscsak gy rzem, hogy nem vagyok
olyan tehetetlen, mint amilyennek belltasz. gy
gondolom, brmit megcsinlhatok, amit kitallok,
csak azt nem tudom, hogyan. Nem az er hinyzik,
hanem a tuds.
M: Nem ismerni az eszkzket nyilvn ugyanolyan
rossz, mint nem rendelkezni az ervel. De hagyjuk a
tmt egy pillanatra; vgl is nem fontos, hogy mirt
rezzk a tehetetlensget, amg vilgosan ltjuk,
hogy egyelre tehetetlenek vagyunk.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
I am now 74 years old. And yet I feel that I am an
infant. I feel clearly that in spite of all the changes I
am a child. My Guru told me: that child, which is you
even now, is your real self (swarupa). Go back to
that state of pure being, where the 'I am' is still in its
purity before it got contaminated with 'this I am' or
'that I am'. Your burden is of false self-identifications
-- abandon them all. My Guru told me -- 'Trust me. I
tell you; you are divine. Take it as the absolute truth.
Your joy is divine, your suffering is divine too. All
comes from God. Remember it always. You are
God, your will alone is done'. I did believe him and
soon realised how wonderfully true and accurate
were his words. I did not condition my mind by
thinking: 'I am God, I am wonderful, I am beyond'. I
simply followed his instruction which was to focus
the mind on pure being 'I am', and stay in it. I used
to sit for hours together, with, nothing but the 'I am'
in my mind and soon peace and joy and a deep all-
embracing love became my normal state. In it all
disappeared -- myself, my Guru, the life I lived, the
world around me. Only peace remained and
unfathomable silence.
Q: It all looks very simple and easy, but it is just not
so. Sometimes the wonderful state of joyful peace
dawns on me and I look and wonder: how easily it
comes and how intimate it seems, how totally my
own. Where was the need to strive so hard for a
state so near at hand? This time, surely, it has come
to stay. Yet how soon it all dissolves and leaves me
wondering -- was it a taste of reality or another
aberration. If it was reality, why did it go? Maybe
some unique experience is needed to fix me for
good in the new state and until the crucial
experience comes, this game of hide and seek must
continue.
M: Your expectation of something unique and
dramatic, of some wonderful explosion, is merely
hindering and delaying your self-realisation. You are
not to expect an explosion, for the explosion has
already happened -- at the moment when you were
born, when you realised yourself as being-knowing-
feeling. There is only one mistake you are making:
you take the inner for the outer and the outer for the
inner. What is in you, you take to be outside you and
what is outside, you take to be in you. The mind and
feelings are external, but you take them to be
intimate. You believe the world to be objective, while
it is entirely a projection of your psyche. That is the
basic confusion and no new explosion will set it
right. You have to think yourself out of it. There is no
other way.
224
74 ves vagyok. s mgis gyermeknek rzem
magam. Vilgosan rzem, hogy minden vltozs
ellenre gyermek vagyok. Gurum azt mondta
nekem: a gyermek, aki mg e pillanatban is vagy, a
te valdi ned (swarupa). Menj vissza a tiszta lt
azon llapotig, ahol az n vagyok mg tiszta volt,
mieltt mg beszennyezdtt volna az n ez
vagyok-, vagy n az vagyok-kal. A te terhed a
hamis nazonossgok terhe szabadulj meg
ezektl teljesen. Gurum azt mondta Bzz bennem.
n mondom neked, isteni termszet vagy. Fogadd
el ezt abszolt igazsgknt. rmd isteni,
szenvedsed szintn isteni. Minden Istentl ered.
Ezt soha ne felejtsd el. Te vagy Isten, egyedl a te
akaratod teljesl. Hittem neki, s hamarosan
realizltam, milyen csodlatos mdon igazak s
pontosak voltak szavai. Nem kondicionltam
elmmet azt gondolva: n vagyok Isten, csodlatos
vagyok, mindenek felett ll vagyok. Egyszeren
kvettem a tantst, miszerint fkuszljam az
elmmet az n vagyok tiszta ltre, s maradjak
benne. Rgebben rkon t ltem, elmmben
semmi mssal, csak az n vagyok-kal, s
hamarosan bke s rm, s egy mly, mindent
fellel szeretet vlt norml llapotomm. Minden
eltnt benne nmagam, Gurum, az let amit ltem,
a krlttem lv vilg. Csak bke maradt, s
mrhetetlenl mly csend.
K: Mindez ltszlag nagyon egyszer s knny, de
ppen hogy nem gy van. Olykor csodlatos rmteli
bks llapot virrad rm, s n csak nzek s
csodlkozom: milyen knnyen jn, s milyen
meghittnek tnik, mennyire egszen az n sajtom.
Honnan az igny, hogy oly kemnyen trekedj egy
egszen kzeli, a kezed gyben lv llapotra?
Ezttal bizonyra llandsul. Mgis, mily gyorsan
szertefoszlik s itt hagy engem mulva ez a
valsg ze volt, vagy ms aberrci? Ha valsg
volt, mirt mlt el? Taln valamilyen egyedi
tapasztalatnak kell vgleg helyrehozni engem az j
llapotban, s amg a kritikus tapasztalat el nem
rkezik, ennek a bjcsknak folytatdnia kell.
M: A valamilyen egyedi s drmai, valamilyen
csodlatos robbans irnti elvrsod, csak
akadlyozza s kslelteti nmegvalstsodat. Nem
kell robbansra vrnod, mert a robbans mr
megtrtnt abban a pillanatban, amikor
megszlettl, amikor lt-tudat-rzsknt ismerted fel
magad. Csak egyetlen hibt kvetsz el: a belst
klsnek, s a klst belsnek tartod. Ami benned
van, azt rajtad kvl lvnek tartod, s ami kls, azt
benned lvnek tartod. Az elme s az rzsek kls
dolgok, de te belsnek tartod ket. Azt hiszed, hogy
a vilg objektv, mikzben teljes egszben
pszichd kivettse. Ez az alapvet tveds, s ezt
semmilyen j robbans nem fogja helyrehozni.
Neked kell ebbl a kiutat tallnod. Nincs ms md.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok

Q: How am I to think myself out when my thoughts K: Hogyan talljak kiutat, amikor gondolataim
come and go as they like. Their endless chatter tetszsk szerint jnnek s mennek? Vgtelen
distracts and exhausts me. locsogsuktl megzavarodok s kimerlk.

M: Watch your thoughts as you watch the street M: Figyeld a gondolataidat, mintha kzti forgalmat
traffic. People come and go; you register without figyelnl. Jnnek-mennek az emberek; amit te
response. It may not be easy in the beginning, but reagls nlkl szemllsz. Kezdetben nem biztos,
with some practice you will find that your mind can hogy ez knny, de idvel gy tallod majd, hogy
function on many levels at the same time and you elmd egyszerre tbb szinten kpes funkcionlni, s
can be aware of them all. It is only when you have a te mindegyiknek tudatban leszel. Amikor figyelmed
vested interest in any particular level, that your ott ragad valamelyik szinten, valamilyen egyedi
attention gets caught in it and you black out on otherrdekeltsg miatt, akkor ms szinteken kialszik. A
levels. Even then the work on the blacked out levels kialudt szintek mkdse mg ekkor is folytatdik, a
goes on, outside the field of consciousness. Do not tudatossg tern kvl. Ne harcolj emlkeiddel s
struggle with your memories and thoughts; try only gondolataiddal; prbld csak a sokkal fontosabb
to include in your field of attention the other, more krdseket figyelmed terben tartani, olyanokat,
important questions, like 'Who am l?' 'How did I mint Ki vagyok n?, Hogyan szlettem?, Mirt van
happen to be born?' 'Whence this universe around ez az univerzum krlttem?, Mi valdi, s mi
me?'. 'What is real and what is momentary?' No pillanatnyi? Semmilyen gondolat nem marad fenn,
ha elveszted irnta az rdekldsedet, az
memory will persist, if you lose interest in it, it is the
emotional link that perpetuates the bondage. You emocionlis kapocs tartja fenn a ktelket.
are always seeking pleasure, avoiding pain, always llandan lvezetet keresel, a fjdalmat kerlsz,
after happiness and peace. Don't you see that it is llandan boldogsg s bke utn kutakodsz. Nem
your very search for happiness that makes you feel ltod, hogy valjban boldogsg keressed miatt
miserable? Try the other way: indifferent to pain and rzed magad boldogtalannak? Prbld ki a msik
pleasure, neither asking, nor refusing, give all your utat: lgy kzmbs a fjdalommal s az lvezettel
attention to the level on which 'I am' is timelessly szemben, se nem krve, se nem visszautastva,
present. Soon you will realise that peace and fordtsd teljes figyelmed arra a szintre, amelyen az
happiness are in your very nature and it is only n vagyok idtlenl jelen van. Hamarosan
seeking them through some particular channels, that felismered, hogy valsgos termszeted a bke s
disturbs. Avoid the disturbance, that is all. To seek boldogsg, s csak ezeknek a mindenfle klns
there is no need; you would not seek what you csatornkon val keresse az, ami zavar. Kerld a
already have. You yourself are God, the Supreme zavart, ez minden. Nincs szksg keressre; nem
kell azt keresned, ami mr eleve vagy. Te magad
Reality. To begin with, trust me, trust the Teacher. It
enables you to make the first step -- and then your vagy Isten, a Legfelsbb Realits. Elszr is, bzz
trust is justified by your own experience. In every bennem, bzz a Tantban. Ez lehetv teszi, hogy
megtedd az els lpst azutn bizalmad majd
walk of life initial trust is essential; without it little can
be done. Every undertaking is an act of faith. Even sajt tapasztalatod ltal nyer igazolst. Minden
your daily bread you eat on trust. By remembering letplyn elengedhetetlen a kezdeti bizalom; e
what I told you you will achieve everything. I am nlkl keveset lehet tenni. Minden vllalkozs
telling you again: You are the all-pervading, all bizalombl fakad cselekvs. Mg mindennapi
transcending reality. Behave accordingly: think, feel kenyered is bizalomra pl. Ha szben tartod, amit
and act in harmony with the whole and the actual mondtam, mindent meg fogsz valstani.
experience of what I say will dawn upon you in no Megismtlem: te vagy a mindent betlt, mindent
time. No effort is needed. Have faith and act on it. meghalad valsg. Viselkedj ennek megfelelen:
Please see that I want nothing from you. It is in yourgondolkodj, rezz s cselekedj az egsszel val
own interest that l speak, because above all you harmniban, s valdi rtelme, annak amit mondok
love yourself, you want yourself secure and happy. igen rvid id alatt megvilgosodik. Nincs szksg
erfesztsre. Higgy, s cselekedj ennek
Don't be ashamed of it, don't deny it. It is natural and
good to love oneself. Only you should know what megfelelen. Lsd be, krlek, hogy semmit nem
exactly do you love. It is not the body that you love,akarok tled. A sajt rdekedben beszlek, mert te
szereted mindenekfelett nmagadat, te akarsz
it is Life --perceiving, feeling, thinking, doing, loving,
striving, creating. It is that Life you love, which isnmagadnak biztonsgot s boldogsgot. Ne
szgyelld, ne is utastsd el ezt. Termszetes s j
you, which is all. Realise it in its totality, beyond all
divisions and limitations, and all your desires will dolog szeretni nmagad. Csak azt kell tudnod, hogy
merge in it, for the greater contains the smaller. mit is szeretsz pontosan. Nem a test az, amit
szeretsz, hanem az let szlels, rzs,
Therefore find yourself, for in finding that you find all.
gondolkods, cselekvs, szeretet, trekvs,
Everybody is glad to be. But few know the fullness of teremts. Azt a letet szereted, amely te vagy,

225
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
it. You come to know by dwelling in your mind on 'I
am', 'I know', 'I love' -- with the will of reaching the
deepest meaning of these words.
Q: Can I think 'I am God'?
M: Don't identify yourself with an idea. If you mean
by God the Unknown, then you merely say: 'I do not
know what I am'. If you know God as you know your
self, you need not say it. Best is the simple feeling 'I
am'. Dwell on it patiently. Here patience is wisdom;
don't think of failure. There can be no failure in this
undertaking.
Q: My thoughts will not let me.
M: Pay no attention. Don't fight them. Just do
nothing about them, let them be, whatever they are.
Your very fighting them gives them life. Just
disregard. Look through. Remember to remember:
'whatever happens -- happens because I am'. All
reminds you that you are. Take full advantage of the
fact that to experience you must be. You need not
stop thinking. Just cease being interested. It is
disinterestedness that liberates. Don't hold on, that
is all. The world is made of rings. The hooks are all
yours. Make straight your hooks and nothing can
hold you. Give up your addictions. There is nothing
else to give up. Stop your routine of acquisitiveness,
your habit of looking for results and the freedom of
the universe is yours. Be effortless.
Q: Life is effort. There are so many things to do.
M: What needs doing, do it. Don't resist. Your
balance must be dynamic, based on doing just the
right thing, from moment to moment. Don't be a child
unwilling to grow up. Stereotyped gestures and
postures will not help you. Rely entirely on your
clarity of thought, purity of motive and integrity of
action. You cannot possibly go wrong. Go beyond
and leave all behind.
Q: But can anything be left for good?
M: You want something like a round-the-clock M: Te valamilyen lland rmmmort akarsz.
ecstasy. Ecstasies come and go, necessarily, for the rmk jnnek s mennek, ami szksgszer, mert
226
amely minden. Ismerd ezt fel a maga teljessgben,
minden megosztson s korltozson tli voltban,
s minden vgyad sszeolvad vele, hogy a nagyobb
magba foglalja a kisebbet. Keresd teht nmagad,
mert a keressve mindent megtallsz.
Mindenki rl a ltnek. De kevesen ismerik annak
teljessgt. Megismersig az n vagyok, az n
tudok, az n szeretek elmdben tartsval jutsz el
azltal, hogy el akarod rni ezen szavak
legmlyebb rtelmt.
K: Gondolhatom azt, hogy n vagyok Isten?
M: Ne azonostsd magad egy ideval. Ha Isten alatt
az Ismeretlent rted, akkor egyedl azt mondhatod:
nem tudom, ki vagyok. Ha Istent sajt nedknt
ismered, akkor nem kell mondanod. Legjobb az
egyszer n vagyok rzs. Idzz benne
trelmesen. A trelem blcsessg; ne kalkulld be a
sikertelensget. Ez a vllalkozs nem lehet
sikertelen.
K: A gondolataim nem fognak elhagyni.
M: Ne figyelj rjuk. Ne harcolj velk. Csak ne tgy
velk semmit, engedd ket lenni, brmik is azok.
Valjban a velk val kzdelem lteti ket. Csak
hagyd ket figyelmen kvl. Nzz t rajtuk.
Emlkezz, hogy emlkezz: brmi trtnik azrt
trtnik, mert n vagyok. Minden arra emlkeztet,
hogy vagy. Ragadj meg minden alkalmat annak
megtapasztalsra, hogy vagy. Nem kell
abbahagyni a gondolkodst. Csak az irnta val
rdekldst hagyd abba. Ez az rdektelensg
szabadt meg. Ne ragaszkodj, ez minden. A vilg
tele van gyrkkel. Te tele vagy horgokkal.
Egyenestsd ki a horgaidat, s semmi nem tud
maghoz ragadni. Add fel fggsgeidet. Semmi
ms nincs, amit fel kell adni. lltsd le a szerzs
gyakorlatt, az eredmny szemllet szokst, s
tid az univerzum szabadsga. Lgy erfeszts
mentes.
K: Az let erfeszts. Olyan sok a tennival.
M: Amit csinlni kell, csinld. Ne llj ellen. Lgy
dinamikus egyenslyban, azon alapon, hogy csak j
dolgokat csinlsz, minden pillanatban. Ne lgy
felnni nem akar gyermek. Sztereotip viselkeds
s magatarts nem segt rajtad. Bzd magad
teljesen gondolkodsod vilgossgra, motivcid
tisztasgra, s cselekvsed integritsra. Nem
tudod elrontani. Lpj tl, s hagyj mindent magad
mgtt.
K: De maradhat-e brmi is j?
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
human brain cannot stand the tension for a long
time. A prolonged ecstasy will burn out your brain,
unless it is extremely pure and subtle. In nature
nothing is at stand-still, everything pulsates, appears
and disappears. Heart, breath, digestion, sleep and
waking -- birth and death everything comes and
goes in waves. Rhythm, periodicity, harmonious
alternation of extremes is the rule. No use rebelling
against the very pattern of life. If you seek the
Immutable, go beyond experience. When I say:
remember 'I am' all the time, I mean: 'come back to it
repeatedly'. No particular thought can be mind's
natural state, only silence. Not the idea of silence,
but silence itself. When the mind is in its natural
state, it reverts to silence spontaneously after every
experience or, rather, every experience happens
against the background of silence.
Now, what you have learnt here becomes the seed.
You may forget it -- apparently. But it will live and in
due season sprout and grow and bring forth flowers
and fruits. All will happen by itself. You need not do
anything, only don't prevent it.
I AM THAT part2
52. Being Happy, Making Happy is the
Rhythm of Life
Questioner: I came from Europe a few months ago
on one of my periodical visits to my Guru near
Calcutta. Now I am on my way back home. I was
invited by a friend to meet you and I am glad I came.
Maharaj: What did you learn from your Guru and
what practice did you follow?
Q: He is a venerable old man of about eighty.
Philosophically he is a Vedantin and the practice he
teaches has much to do with rousing the
unconscious energies of the mind and bringing the
hidden obstacles and blockages into the conscious.
My personal sadhana was related to my peculiar
problem of early infancy and childhood. My mother
could not give me the feeling of being secure and
loved, so important to the child's normal
development. She was a woman not fit to be a
mother; ridden with anxieties and neuroses, unsure
of herself, she felt me to be a responsibility and a
burden beyond her capacity to bear. She never
wanted me to be born. She did not want me to grow
and to develop, she wanted me back in her womb,
unborn, nonexistent. Any movement of life in me she
resisted, any attempt to go beyond the narrow circle
of her habitual existence she fought fiercely. As a
child I was both sensitive and affectionate. I craved
227
az emberi agy nem brja a feszltsget hossz ideig.
A hosszan tart elragadtats kigeti az agyadat,
hacsak nem rendkvli mdon tiszta s kifinomult. A
termszetben semmi nem szakadatlan, minden
lktet, megjelenik s eltnik. Szv, llegzet,
emszts, alvs s brenlt szlets s hall,
mind hullmszeren jnnek s mennek. Ritmus,
periodicits, szls rtkek kztti harmonikus
vltakozs a szably. Ne lzadj az let valsgos
mintja ellen. Ha az llandt keresed, lpj tl a
tapasztalaton. Ha azt mondom: szakadatlanul tartsd
szben az n vagyok-ot, gy rtem: trj vissza
hozz jra meg jra. Semmilyen konkrt gondolat
nem lehet az elme termszetes llapota, csak a
csend. Nem a csend ideja, hanem maga a csend.
Amikor az elme a termszetes llapotban van,
minden tapasztals utn spontn mdon visszatr a
csendhez, azaz inkbb, minden tapasztals a csend
httere eltt trtnik.
Nos, amit itt tanultl, az magg vlik. Lehet, hogy
elfelejted ltszlag. De lni fog, s kell idben
kicsrzik, nvekedsnek indul, virgot hoz, s
gymlcst terem. Minden magtl fog trtnni.
Neked nem kell csinlni semmit, csak ne gtold.
N AZ VAGYOK 2. rsz
52. Boldognak lenni, boldogg tenni az
let harmnija
Krdez: Nhny hnapja rkeztem Eurpbl,
Kalkutta mellett l Gurumnl szoktam rendszeres
ltogatst tenni. Most hazafel tartok. Egy bartom
invitlt, hogy ltogassalak meg, s rlk, hogy
eljttem.
Maharaj: Mit tanultl a Gurudtl, s milyen
gyakorlatot kvetsz?
K: egy tiszteletre mlt, ids, nyolcvan krli
ember. Filozfijt tekintve Vedantin, s az ltala
tantott prakszis lnyege az elme tudatalatti
energiinak a felbresztse, s a rejtett akadlyok
s gtlsok tudatostsa. Az n szemlyes
sadhanm a korai gyermekveimhez s
gyermekkoromhoz ktd sajtsgos
problmimmal kapcsolatos. Anym nem tudta
megadni nekem a biztonsg s a szeretet rzst,
ami oly fontos egy gyermek normlis fejldshez.
egy olyan asszony volt, aki nem volt alkalmas
anynak; aggodalom s idegessg ltal
megnyomortottan, sajt magban bizonytalanul
engem tett felelss, s a r nehezed terhek
meghaladtk trkpessgt. Soha nem akart
engem vilgra hozni. Nem akarta, hogy nvekedjek
s fejldjek, azt akarta, hogy trjek vissza az
anyamhbe, vljak meg nem szletett, nem
ltezv. Az letemben bekvetkez minden
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
for love above everything else and love, the simple,
instinctive love of a mother for her child was denied
me. The child's search for its mother became the
leading motive of my life and I never grew out of it. A
happy child, a happy childhood became an
obsession with me. Pregnancy, birth, infancy
interested me passionately. I became an obstetrician
of some renown and contributed to the development
of the method of painless childbirth. A happy child of
a happy mother -- that was my ideal all my life. But
my mother was always there -- unhappy herself,
unwilling and incapable to see me happy. It
manifested itself in strange ways. Whenever I was
unwell, she felt better; when I was in good shape,
she was down again, cursing herself and me too. As
if she never forgave me my crime of having been
born, she made me feel guilty of being alive. 'You
live because you hate me. If you love me -- die', was
her constant, though silent message. And so I spent
my life, being offered death instead of love.
Imprisoned, as I was, in my mother, the perennial
infant, I could not develop a meaningful relation with
a woman; the image of the mother would stand
between, unforgiving, unforgiven. I sought solace in
my work and found much; but I could not move from
the pit of infancy. Finally, I turned to spiritual search
and I am on this line steadily for many years. But, in
a way it is the same old search for mother's love, call
it God or Atma or Supreme Reality. Basically I want
to love and be loved; unfortunately the so-called
religious people are against life and all for the mind.
When faced with life's needs and urges, they begin
by classifying, abstracting and conceptualising and
then make the classification more important than life
itself. They ask to concentrate on and impersonate a
concept. Instead of the spontaneous integration
through love they recommend a deliberate and
laborious concentration on a formula. Whether it is
God or Atma, the me or the other, it comes to the
same. Something to think about, not somebody to
love. It is not theories and systems that I need; there
are many equally attractive or plausible. I need a
stirring of the heart, a renewal of life, and not a new
way of thinking. There are no new ways of thinking,
but feelings can be ever fresh. When I love
somebody, I meditate on him spontaneously and
powerfully, with warmth and vigour, which my mind
cannot command.
228
vltozsnak ellenllt, szenvedlyesen harcolt
minden ellen, ami megksrelt tllpni az
megszokott ltezsnek szk krn. Gyermekknt
rzkeny voltam s gyengd. Minden msnl jobban
ignyeltem a szeretetet, s a szeretet, a gyermeke
irnt sztns anyai szeretet, tlem megtagadtatott.
A gyermek anya-keresse vlt letem vezr
motvumv, amit soha nem tudtam kinni. A boldog
gyermek, a boldog gyermekkor rgeszmmm vlt.
Szenvedlyes rdeklds alakult ki bennem a
terhessg, szlets, csecsemkor irnt. Szlszknt
bizonyos hrnvre tettem szert, s kzremkdtem a
fjdalommentes gyermekszls mdszernek a
kifejlesztsben. Boldog anya boldog gyermeke ez
volt egsz letem eszmnykpe. De anym mindig
ott volt a maga boldogtalansgval,
vonakodsval s az irnti kptelensgvel, hogy
engem boldognak lsson. Ez klns mdokon
nyilvnult meg. Valahnyszor n gyenglkedtem,
jl volt; amikor n j egszsgben voltam, ismt
maga al kerlt, tkozva sajt magt s engem is.
Mintha sohasem tudn megbocstani a bnmet,
hogy megszlettem, azt akarta, hogy bntudatot
rezzek azrt, hogy lek. Te azrt lsz, mert
gyllsz engem. Ha szeretsz meghalsz, ez volt az
lland, habr nma zenete. s gy telt az
letem, a szeretet helyetti hall ajnlatval. Anym,
az rk gyermeksg rabjaknt, nem tudtam nvel
rtelmes kapcsolatot kialaktani; anym kpe mindig
kznk llt, knyrtelenl, meg nem bocstan. A
munkmban kerestem vigaszt, s sokat talltam; de
nem tudtam meneklni a gyermeksg csapdjbl.
Vgl a spiritulis keress fel fordultam, s
kitartan, mr sok ve ezt a vonalat kvetem. De a
maga nemben ez ugyanaz a rgi, anyai szeretet
keress, nevezd azt Istennek, Atmnak, vagy
Legfelsbb Valsgnak. Tulajdonkppen szeretni s
szeretve lenni akarok; sajnlatra mlt mdon az
gynevezett vallsos emberek letellenesek, s
mind elme vezrelt. Az let szksgleteivel s
sztnzseivel szembeslve osztlyozni,
absztrahlni s konceptualizlni kezdenek, majd az
osztlyozst sokkal fontosabb teszik, mint magt
az letet. Arra krnek, hogy sszpontostsak egy
fogalomra, s szemlyestsem meg azt. A szeretet
ltali spontn teljess vls helyett egy fogalomra
val kigondolt s mesterklt koncentrcit
javasolnak. Akr Isten, vagy Atma, az n vagy a
msik, mind ugyanoda vezet. Gondolni rla valamit,
nem pedig szeretni t. Nem elmletekre s
rendszerekre van szksgem; ezekbl sok
egyformn vonz vagy hihet ltezik. Nekem a szv
bredsre van szksgem, az let megjulsra,
s nem egy j gondolkodsmdra. Nincsenek j
mdjai a gondolkodsnak, de az rzsek rkk
frissek lehetnek. Amikor szeretek valakit, akkor
nkntelenl s erteljesen meditlok rajta,
melegsggel s letervel telve, amit az elmm nem
tud uralni.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Words are good for shaping feelings; words without A szavak alkalmasak az rzsek alaktsra; az
feeling are like clothes with no body inside -- cold rzsek nlkli szavak akr a test nlkli ruhk
and limp. This mother of mine -- she drained me of hidegek s ertlenek. Ez az n anym lecsapolta
all feelings -- my sources have run dry. Can I find sszes rzsemet forrsaim kiszradtak.
here the richness and abundance of emotions, Rtallhatok itt az emcik gazdagsgra s
which I needed in such ample measure as a child? bsgre, amelyekre oly bsgesen szksgem lett
volna gyermekknt?

M: Where is your childhood now? And what is your M: Hol van a gyermekkorod most? s mi a jvd?
future?

Q: I was born, I have grown, I shall die. K: Megszlettem, felntt lettem, meghalok.

M: You mean your body, of course. And your mind. I
am not talking of your physiology and psychology.
They are a part of nature and are governed by
nature's laws. I am talking of your search for love.
Had it a beginning? Will it have an end?
M: Te most a testedre gondolsz, termszetesen. s
elmdre. Most nem fiziolgidrl s pszicholgidrl
van sz. Ezek a termszet rsze, s termszeti
trvnyek ltal irnytottak. A te szeretet irnti
keressedrl beszlek. Volt ennek kezdete? Lesz
neki vge?

Q: I really cannot say. It is there -- from the earliest K: Valjban nem tudom megmondani. Jelen van
to the last moment of my life. This yearning for love - letem legkorbbi pillanata ta a legutolsig. Ez a
- how constant and how hopeless. szeretet utni svrgs mily lland s mily
remnytelen.

M: In your search for love what exactly are you M: Szeretet irnti keressed sorn mi az pontosan,
searching for? amit keresel?

Q: Simply this: to love and to be loved. K: Egyszeren: szeretni s szeretve lenni.

M: You mean a woman? M: Most ezt nre vonatkozan rted?

Q: Not necessarily. A friend, a teacher, a guide -- as K: Nem szksgszeren. Bartra, tanrra, vezetre
long as the feeling is bright and clear. Of course, a amg az rzs vilgos s tiszta. Persze, a n a
woman is the usual answer. But it need not be the szokvnyos vlasz. De ez csak az egyik lehetsg.
only one.

M: Of the two what would you prefer, to love or to be M: A kett kzl melyiket rszested elnyben,
loved? szeretni vagy szeretve lenni?

Q: I would rather have both. But I can see that to K: Inkbb mindkettt. De gy ltom, szeretni
love is greater, nobler, deeper. To be loved is sweet, nagyszerbb, nemesebb, mlyebb. Szeretve lenni
but it does not make one grow. kellemes dolog, de ettl az ember nem fog felnni.

M: Can you love on your own, or must you be made M: Tudsz magadtl szeretni, vagy erltetned kell a
to love? szeretetet?

Q: One must meet somebody lovable, of course. My K: Termszetesen tallkoznia kell az embernek
mother was not only not loving, she was also not valaki olyannal, aki szeretetre mlt. Az anym nem
lovable. csak nem szeretett, szeretetre mlt sem volt.

M: What makes a person lovable? Is it not the being M: Mi tesz valakit szeretetre mltv? Nem a lnyt
loved? First you love and then you look for reasons. kell szeretni? Elszr szeress, majd azutn keress
indokokat.

Q: It can be the other way round. You love what K: Ez lehet a msik t. Szereted, ami boldogg tesz
makes you happy. tged.

M: But what makes you happy? M: De mi tesz tged boldogg?

229
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: There is no rule about it. The entire subject is
highly individual and unpredictable.
M: Right. Whichever way you put it, unless you love
there is no happiness. But, does love make you
always happy? Is not the association of love with
happiness a rather early, infantile stage? When the
beloved suffers, don't you suffer too? And do you
cease to love, because you suffer? Must love and
happiness come and go together? Is love merely the
expectation of pleasure?
Q: Of course not. There can be much suffering in
love.
M: Then what is love? Is it not a state of being rather
than a state of mind? Must you know that you love in
order to love? Did you not love your mother
unknowingly? Your craving for her love, for an
opportunity to love her, is it not the movement of
love? Is not love as much a part of you, as
consciousness of being? You sought the love of
your mother, because you loved her.
Q: But she would not let me.
M: She could not stop you.
Q: Then, why was I unhappy all my life?
M: Because you did not go down to the very roots of
your being. It is your complete ignorance of yourself,
that covered up your love and happiness and made
you seek for what you had never lost. Love is will,
the will to share your happiness with all. Being
happy -- making happy -- this is the rhythm of love.
53. Desires Fulfilled, Breed More Desires 53. A beteljeslt vgyak tovbbi
vgyakat keltenek
Questioner: I must confess I came today in a
rebellious mood. I got a raw deal at the airlines
office. When faced with such situations everything
seems doubtful, everything seems useless.
Maharaj: This is a very useful mood. Doubting all,
refusing all, unwilling to learn through another. It is
the fruit of your long sadhana. After all one does not
study for ever.
Q: Enough of it. It took me nowhere.
M: Don't say 'nowhere'. It took you where you are --
now.
230
K: Erre vonatkozan nincs szably. Ez az egsz
nagyon egyni, s megjsolhatatlan.
M: Rendben. Brmilyen utat vlasztasz, ha nem
szeretsz, nem lehetsz boldog. De, a szeretet minden
esetben boldogg tesz? Nem trstod a szeretetet a
boldogsg egy meglehetsen korai, infantilis
llapotval? Amikor a szeretett szenved, nem
szenvedsz-e te is? s megsznsz-e szeretni, mert
szenvedsz? A szeretetnek s a boldogsgnak egytt
kell-e megjelennie s tvoznia? Lehet-e a szeretet
az rm elvrsa csupn?
K: Termszetesen nem. Sok szenveds lehet a
szeretetben.
M: Akkor ht mi a szeretet? Nem ltllapot inkbb,
mint elmellapot? Kell-e tudnod, hogy szeretsz,
annak rdekben, hogy szeress? Nem szeretted-e
anydat tudatlanul is? Vgyakozsod a szeretetre,
a lehetsgre, hogy szerethesd t, nem a szeretet
mkdse-e? Nem ugyanannyira rszed-e neked a
szeretet is, mint a lt tudatossga? Azrt kerested
anyd szeretett, mert szeretted t.
K: De nem hagyta.
M: Nem tudott volna meglltani.
K: Akkor mirt volt boldogtalan az egsz letem?
M: Mert nem merltl al lted valdi gykereihez.
nmagad teljes tudatlansga elfedte szeretetedet
s boldogsgodat, s a keressre ksztetett
annak, amit soha nem vesztettl el. A szeretet
vlaszts, annak vlasztsa, hogy boldogsgodat
megosztod mindennel. Boldognak lenni boldogg
tenni ez a szeretet harmnija.
Krdez: Be kell vallanom, nagyon lzong
lelkillapotban jttem ma ide. A lgiforgalmi trsasg
irodjban kmletlenl bntak velem. Amikor ilyen
szituciba kerlk, minden ktsgesnek ltszik,
minden rossznak tnik.
Maharaj: Ez egy nagyon hasznos lelkillapot.
Mindenben ktelkedni, mindent elutastani,
vonakodni attl, hogy msok ltal tanulj. Ez a te
hossz sadhandnak a gymlcse. Vgl is az
ember nem tanul rkk.
K: Elegem van belle. Nem vitt engem sehov.
M: Ne mondd, hogy sehov. Ez vezetett tged oda,
ahol vagy most.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: It is again the child and its tantrums. I have not K: Ez megint a gyermek s szeszlyei. Egy centit
moved an inch from where I was. sem mozdultam onnan, ahol voltam.

M: You began as a child and you will end as a child. M: Gyermekknt kezdted, s gyermekknt fogod
Whatever you have acquired in the meantime you vgezni. Akrmit szereztl kzben, el kell, hogy
must lose and start at the beginning. vesztsd, s az elejn kell, hogy kezdd.

Q: But the child kicks. When it is unhappy or denied K: De a gyermek rugdos. Amikor boldogtalan, vagy
anything it kicks. elutastjk, brmibe belerg.

M: Let it kick. Just look at the kicking. And if you are
too afraid of the society to kick convincingly look at
that too. I know it is a painful business. But there is
no remedy -- except one -- the search for remedies
must cease.
M: Hadd rgjon. Csak figyeld a rgst. s ha
tlsgosan flsz a trsadalomtl ahhoz, hogy
meggyz mdon belergj, akkor azt is figyeld.
Tudom, hogy ez fjdalmas gy. De nincs r
gygyszer egyet kivve a gygyszerek
keressnek az abba hagyst.

If you are angry or in pain, separate yourself from
anger and pain and watch them. Externalisation is
the first step to liberation. Step away and look. The
physical events will go on happening, but by
themselves they have no importance. It is the mind
alone that matters. Whatever happens, you cannot
kick and scream in an airline office or in a Bank.
Society does not allow it. If you do not like their
ways, or are not prepared to endure them, don't fly
or carry money. Walk, and if you cannot walk, don't
travel. If you deal with society you must accept its
ways, for its ways are your ways. Your needs and
demands have created them. Your desires are so
complex and contradictory -- no wonder the society
you create is also complex and contradictory.
Ha dhs vagy, vagy szenvedsz, vlj kln a dhtl
s a szenvedstl, s figyeld ket. Az externalizci
az els lps a megszabaduls fel. Lpj tvolabb,
s figyelj. A fizikai esemnyek tovbb fognak zajlani,
de egyedl mr nem lesz jelentsgk. Kizrlag az
elme, csinl gyet a dologbl. Brmi trtnik, nem
rugdoshatsz s ordthatsz egy irodban, vagy egy
bankban. A trsadalom ezt nem engedi meg. Ha
nem tetszenek a mdszereik, vagy nem vagy elg
felkszlt, hogy elviseld ket, akkor ne replj, illetve
ne legyenek pnzgyeid. Gyalogolj, s ha nem
tudsz gyalogolni, akkor ne kzlekedj. Ha gyeid
vannak a trsadalommal, akkor el kell fogadnod az
mdszereit, mert az mdszerei a te mdszereid.
Szksgleteid s ignyeid teremtettk ket. Vgyaid
annyira sokrtek s ellentmondsosak ne
csodlkozz, hogy a trsadalom, amit ltrehoztl
szintn sokrt s ellentmondsos.

Q: I do see and admit that the outer chaos is merely K: Ltom, s el is ismerem, hogy a kls kosz
a reflection of my own inner disharmony. But what is pusztn az n sajt bels diszharmnim
the remedy? visszatkrzdse. De mi az orvossg?

M: Don't seek remedies. M: Ne keress orvossgokat.

Q: Sometimes one is in a 'state of grace' and life is K: Idnknt az emberkegyelmi llapotban van, s
happy and harmonious. But such a state does not az let boldog s harmonikus. De az ilyen llapot
last. The mood changes and all goes wrong. nem tarts. A lelkillapot megvltozik, s minden
elromlik.

M: If you could only keep quiet, clear of memories M: Ha csendben tudnl maradni, emlkektl s
and expectations, you would be able to discern the elvrsoktl tisztn, kpes lennl szrevenni az
beautiful pattern of events. It is your restlessness esemnyek gynyr mintzatt. A nyugtalansgod
that causes chaos. a kosz okozja.

Q: For full three hours that I spent in the airline office K: A lgiforgalmi trsasg irodjban tlttt hrom
I was practising patience and forbearance. It did not ra alatt trelmet s elnzst gyakoroltam. s nem
speed up matters. gyorsultak fel a dolgok.

M: At least it did not slow them down, as your M: De legalbb le se lasstotta, amit rugdosssal
kicking would have surely done. You want biztos elidztl volna. Azonnali eredmnyeket
immediate results. We do not dispense magic here. akarsz. Itt nem szolglunk varzslattal. Mindenki
Everybody does the same mistake: refusing the ugyanazt a hibt kveti el: az eszkzket elutastjk,

231
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
means, but wanting the ends. You want peace and
harmony in the world, but refuse to have them in
yourself. Follow my advice implicitly and you will not
be disappointed. I cannot solve your problem by
mere words. You have to act on what I told you and
persevere. It is not the right advice that liberates, but
the action based on it. Just like a doctor, after giving
the patient an injection, tells him: 'Now, keep quiet.
Do nothing more, just keep quiet,' I am telling you:
you have got your 'injection', now keep quiet, just
keep quiet. You have nothing else to do. My Guru
did the same. He would tell me something and then
said: 'Now keep quiet. Don't go on ruminating all the
time. Stop. Be silent'.
Q: I can keep quiet for an hour in the morning. But
the day is long and many things happen that throw
me out of balance. It is easy to say 'be silent', but to
be silent when all is screaming in me and round me -
- please tell me how it is done.
M: All that needs doing can be done in peace and
silence. There is no need to get upset.
Q: It is all theory which does not fit the facts. I am
returning to Europe with nothing to do there. My life
is completely empty.
M: If you just try to keep quiet, all will come -- the
work, the strength for work, the right motive. Must
you know everything beforehand? Don't be anxious
about your future -- be quiet now and all will fall in
place. The unexpected is bound to happen, while
the anticipated may never come. Don't tell me you
cannot control your nature. You need not control it.
Throw it overboard. Have no nature to fight, or to
submit to. No experience will hurt you, provided you
don't make it into a habit. Of the entire universe you
are the subtle cause. All is because you are. Grasp
this point firmly and deeply and dwell on it
repeatedly. To realise this as absolutely true, is
liberation.
Q: If I am the seed of my universe, then a rotten
seed I am. By the fruit the seed is known.
M: What is wrong with your world that you swear at
it?
Q: It is full of pain.
M: Nature is neither pleasant nor painful. It is all M: A termszet se nem lvezetes, se nem
intelligence and beauty. Pain and pleasure are in the fjdalmas. Intelligencival s szpsggel van tele.
232
de a clokhoz ragaszkodnak. Bkt s harmnit
akarsz a vilgban, de elutastod, hogy rendelkezz
vele nmagadban. Tancsom rtelemszer
kvetse esetn nem fogsz csaldni. Nem tudom
megoldani a problmdat puszta szavakkal. Neked
kell dolgoznod az ltalam elmondottakon, s
llhatatosan. Nem a helyes tancs szabadt meg,
hanem az arra alapozott cselekvs. Ahogy a doktor
a pciensnek beadott injekci utn azt mondja:
Most pedig maradjon nyugalomban. Semmit ne
csinljon, csak maradjon nyugalomban., n is gy
mondom neked: megkaptad az injekcidat, most
maradj nyugalomban, csak maradj nyugalomban.
Semmi mst nem kell tenned. Gurum ugyanezt
csinlta velem. Miutn elmondta amit akart, azt
mondta: Most maradj nyugalomban. Ne elmlkedj
llandan. llj. Lgy csendben.
K: Reggel egy rnyi nyugalomban tudok maradni.
De hossz a nap, s sok olyan dolog trtnik,
amelyek kibillentenek az egyenslyombl. Knny
azt mondani, hogy maradj csendben, de csendben
maradni, mikor bennem s krlttem minden
zajong krlek, mondd el, hogyan kell ezt tenni.
M: Minden szksges teendt el lehet vgezni
csendben s bkben. Nem kell zaklatott vlni.
K: Ez mind elmlet, ami nem felel meg a tnyeknek.
gy trek vissza Eurpba, hogy nincs ott semmi
tennivalm. Az letem teljesen res.
M: Ha csupn nyugalomban prblsz maradni,
minden jnni fog a munka, a munkhoz szksges
er, a kell motivci. Kell neked mindent elre
tudnod? Ne aggdj a jvd miatt lgy nyugodt
most, s minden a helyre fog kerlni. A nem vrt
hatatlanul bekvetkezik, mg a remlt taln soha
nem jn el. Ne mondd nekem, hogy nem tudsz
uralkodni a termszeteden. Nem kell rajta
uralkodnod. Dobd ki a hajbl. Nincs semmilyen
termszet, amivel harcolni kell, vagy aminek engedni
kell. Semmilyen tapasztalat nem fog megsebezni,
feltve, hogy ha nem teszed szoksodd. Te vagy
az egsz univerzum titokzatos oka. Minden azrt
van, mert te vagy. Igyekezz ezt szilrdan, s mlyen
megrteni, s gondolkodj el rajta jra s jra. Ennek
felismerse abszolt igazsgknt a megszabaduls.
K: Ha n vagyok a magva a vilgomnak, akkor
romlott mag vagyok. Gymlcsrl ismerszik meg a
mag.
M: Mi baj a vilgoddal, hogy gy tkozod?
K: Tele van fjdalommal.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
mind. Change your scale of values and all will
change. Pleasure and pain are mere disturbances of
the senses; treat them equally and there will be only
bliss. And the world is, what you make it; by all
means make it happy. Only contentment can make
you happy -- desires fulfilled breed more desires.
Keeping away from all desires and contentment in
what comes by itself is a very fruitful state -- a
precondition to the state of fullness. Don't distrust its
apparent sterility and emptiness. Believe me, it is the
satisfaction of desires that breeds misery. Freedom
from desires is bliss.
Q: There are things we need.
M: What you need will come to you, if you do not
ask for what you do not need. Yet only few people
reach this state of complete dispassion and
detachment. It is a very high state, the very
threshold of liberation.
Q: I have been barren for the last two years,
desolate and empty and often was I praying for
death to come.
M: Well, with your coming here events have started
rolling. Let things happen as they happen -- they will
sort themselves out nicely in the end. You need not
strain towards the future -- the future will come to
you on its own. For some time longer you will remain
sleep-walking, as you do now, bereft of meaning and
assurance; but this period will end and you will find
your work both fruitful and easy. There are always
moments when one feels empty and estranged.
Such moments are most desirable for it means the
soul had cast its moorings and is sailing for distant
places. This is detachment -- when the old is over
and the new has not yet come. If you are afraid, the
state may be distressing; but there is really nothing
to be afraid of. Remember the instruction: whatever
you come across -- go beyond.
Q: The Buddhas rule: to remember what needs to
be remembered. But I find it so difficult to remember
the right thing at the right moment. With me
forgetting seems to be the rule.
M: It is not easy to remember when every situation M: Nem knny emlkezni, mikor minden szituci
brings up a storm of desires and fears. Craving born vgyak, s flelmek vihart hozza fel. Az emlkezet
of memory is also the destroyer of memory. ltal szlt vgyakoz az emlkezet elpuszttja is
egyben.
Q: How am I to fight desire? There is nothing
stronger.
233
Fjdalom s rm az elmben vannak. Vltoztass
rtkrendet, s minden megvltozik. lvezet s
fjdalom pusztn zavarai az rzkeknek; bnj velk
egyformn, s csak boldogsg lesz. s a vilg az,
amiv teszed; mindenkppen tedd boldogg.
Boldogsg csak megelgedettsg esetn lehetges
a kielgtett vgyak tovbbi vgyakat
eredmnyeznek. A minden vgytl val tartzkods,
s a megelgeds azzal, ami magtl jn, nagyon
gymlcsz llapot a teljessg llapotnak
elfelttele. Ne lgy bizalmatlan annak ltszlagos
sterilitsa s ressge irnt. Higgy nekem, a vgyak
kielgtse az, ami a szenvedst okozza. A
vgymentessg boldogsg.
K: Szksgem van dolgokra.
M: Amire szksged van, az eljn hozzd, ha nem
krsz olyat, amire nincs szksged. Mg csak
nhny ember rte el a teljes szenvtelensgnek s
elfogulatlansgnak ezt az llapott. Ez egy nagyon
emelkedett llapot, a megszabaduls valdi
kszbe.
K: Az elmlt kt vben sivr, magnyos s res volt
az letem, gyakran imdkoztam, hogy jjjn a hall.
M: Nos, idejveteled beindtotta az esemnyeket.
Hagyd, hogy a dolgok trtnjenek, ahogy trtnnek
a vgn szpen elrendezik magukat. Nem kell
erlkdnd, hogy elrd a jvt a jv eljn hozzd
magtl. Egy ideig mg tovbbra is alvajr leszel,
cltl s bizonyossgtl megfosztottan; de ez a
peridus vget fog rni, s mkdsedet
gymlcsznek s knnynek fogod tallni. Mindig
vannak pillanatok, amikor az ember resnek s
elhidegltnek rzi magt. Az ilyen pillanatok a
legkvnatosabbak, mert azt jelentik, hogy a llek
leveti horgonyait, s tvoli helyre vitorlzik. Ez a
levls idszaka amikor a rginek vge, s az j
mg nem rkezett meg. Ha fls vagy, aggaszt
lehet szmodra ez az llapot; de valjban semmi
flnivald. Jegyezd meg a tantst: brmi is az,amin
keresztl msz lpj tovbb.
K: A Buddha szablya: emlkezzen az, aminek
emlkezsre van szksge. De olyan nehz
szmomra, hogy a j gondolatra emlkezzek a
megfelel pillanatban. Nekem gy tnik, hogy a
felejts szably.
K: Hogyn szlljak szembe a vgyakkal? Semmi
nincs, ami ersebb.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
M: The waters of life are thundering over the rocks
of objects -- desirable or hateful. Remove the rocks
by insight and detachment and the same waters will
flow deep and silent and swift, in greater volume and
with greater power. Don't be theoretical about it, give
time to thought and consideration; if you desire to be
free, neglect not the nearest step to freedom. It is
like climbing a mountain: not a step can be missed.
One step less -- and the summit is not reached.
54. Body and Mind are Symptoms of
Ignorance
Questioner: We were discussing one day the
person -- the witness -- the absolute (vyakti-vyakta-
avyakta). As far as I remember, you said that the
absolute alone is real and the witness is absolute
only at a given point of space and time. The person
is the organism, gross and subtle, illumined by the
presence of the witness. I do not seem to grasp the
matter clearly; could we discuss it again? You also
use the terms mahadakash, chidakash and
paramakash. How are they related to person,
witness, and the absolute?
Maharaj: Mahadakash is nature, the ocean of
existences, the physical space with all that can be
contacted through the senses. Chidakash is the
expanse of awareness, the mental space of time,
perception and cognition. Paramakash is the
timeless and spaceless reality, mindless,
undifferentiated, the infinite potentiality, the source
and origin, the substance and the essence, both
matter and consciousness -- yet beyond both. It
cannot be perceived, but can be experienced as
ever witnessing the witness, perceiving the
perceiver, the origin and the end of all manifestation,
the root of time and space, the prime cause in every
chain of causation.
Q: What is the difference between vyakta and
avyakta?
M: There is no difference. It is like light and daylight.
The universe is full of light which you do not see; but
the same light you see as daylight. And what the
daylight reveals is the vyakti. The person is always
the object, the witness is the subject and their
relation of mutual dependence is the reflection of
their absolute identity. You imagine that they are
distinct and separate states. They are not. They are
the same consciousness at rest and in movement,
each state conscious of the other. In chit man knows
234
M: Az let vizei a kvnatos, vagy gylletes
dolgok kvei fltt mennydrgve zdulnak.
Tvoltsd el a kveket belts s prtatlansg rvn,
s ugyanezen vizek mlyen, csendesen, sebesen,
nagyobb mennyisgben s nagyobb ervel fog
ramlani. Ne elmletieskedd agyon, adj idt a
meggondolsra s megfontolsra; ha
szabadsgra vgysz, ne hanyagold el a
szabadsghoz vezet legkzelebbi lpst. A
hegymszshoz hasonlan: egyetlen lpst sem
hibzhatsz el. Egy lpssel kevesebb s a
hegycscsot nem red el.
54. A test s az elme a tudatlansg
krtnetei
Krdez: Valamelyik nap a szemlytanabszolt
(vyakti-vyakta-avyakta) tmjrl beszltnk. Ha jl
emlkszem azt mondtad, hogy egyedl az abszolt
valsgos, s csak a tan abszolt, a tr s id egy
adott helyn. A szemly a durva s finom
organizmus, a tan jelenlte ltal megvilgtott. Nem
hiszem, hogy vilgosan rtem a problmt; el
tudnd magyarzni mg egyszer? A mahadakash,
chidakash s paramakash kifejezseket is
hasznltad. Hogyan viszonyulnak ezek a
szemlyhez, a tanhoz, s az abszolthoz?
Maharaj: A mahadakash a termszet, a ltezsek
cenja, a fizikai tr, mindennel, ami az rzkeken
keresztl kapcsoldhat. A chidakash a tudatossg
kiterjedse, az id, szlels s megismers mentlis
tere. A paramakash az idtlen s hatrtalan, elme
nlkli, differencilatlan valsg, a vgtelen
lehetsg, a forrs s az eredet, a szubsztancia s
az eszencia, amely anyag s tudat is mgis
mindkettn tli. Nem szlelhet, de tapasztalhat, a
tan rk tansgaknt, az szlel rk
szlelseknt, minden megnyilvnult kezdete s
vgeknt, id s tr forrsaknt, minden oksgi
lncolat elsdleges okaknt.
K: Mi a klnbsg vyakta s avyakta kztt?
M: Nincs kztk klnbsg. Olyanok, mint a fny s
a napfny. Az univerzum tele van szmodra nem
lthat fnnyel, de ugyanezt a fnyt ltod, mint
napfnyt. s amit a napfny felfed, a vyakti. Mindig
a szemly az objektum, a tan a szubjektum, s
klcsnsen fgg kapcsolatuk az abszolt
azonossguk tkrkpe. Eltr s elklnl
llapotoknak kpzeled ket. Nem azok. k egyazon,
nyugalmi s mozgsi llapotban lv tudatossg,
mindegyik tudatban van a msiknak. A chit-ben az
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
God and God knows man. In chit the man shapes
the world and the world shapes man. Chit is the link,
the bridge between extremes, the balancing and
uniting factor in every experience. The totality of the
perceived is what you call matter. The totality of all
perceivers is what you call the universal mind. The
identity of the two, manifesting itself as perceptibility
and perceiving, harmony and intelligence, loveliness
and loving, reasserts itself eternally.
ember ismeri Istent, s Isten ismeri az embert. A
chit-ben az ember alaktja a vilgot, s a vilg
alaktja az embert. A chit a kapocs, a szlssgek
kztti hd, minden tapasztalat kiegyenslyoz s
egyest tnyezje. Az szleletek sszessge az,
amit anyagnak nevezel. Az szlelk sszessge az,
amit univerzlis elmnek nevezel. A kett
azonossga nmagt szlelhetsgknt s
szlelsknt, harmniaknt s intelligenciaknt,
szeretetre mltsgknt s szeretetknt nyilvntja
meg, ismtli nmagt rkk.

Q: The three gunas, sattva--rajas--tamas, are they K: A hrom guna, a sattva--rajas--tamas, csak az
only in matter, or also in the mind? anyagban van benne, vagy az elmben is?

M: In both, of course, because the two are not
separate. It is only the absolute that is beyond
gunas. In fact, these are but points of view, ways of
looking. They exist only in the mind. Beyond the
mind all distinctions cease.
M: Termszetesen mindkettben, mivel nem
klnllak. Csak az abszolt haladja meg a
gunkat. Valjban ezek csak nzpontok,
ltsmdok. Csupn az elmben lteznek. Az elmn
tl minden klnbsg megsznik.

Q: Is the universe a product of the senses? K: Ez az univerzum az rzkek termke?

M: Just as you recreate your world on waking up, so
is the universe unrolled. The mind with its five
organs of perception, five organs of action, and five
vehicles of consciousness appears as memory,
thought, reason and selfhood.
M: Ahogy bredskor jrateremted a vilgodat, gy
bontakozik ki az univerzum is. Az elme az t
rzkszervvel, t cselekv szervvel, s t
tudatossg kzvett kzegvel emlkezsnek,
gondolkodsnak, kvetkeztetsnek s
szemlyisgnek ltszik.

Q: The sciences have made much progress. We K: A tudomnyok nagy fejldsen mentek keresztl.
know the body and the mind much better than our Sokkal jobban ismerjk a testet s az elmt, mint
ancestors. Your traditional way, describing and eldeink. A te elmt s anyagot ler s elemz
analysing mind and matter, is no longer valid. hagyomnyos mdszered nem rvnyes tbb.

M: But where are your scientists with their sciences? M: De hol vannak a te tudsaid az
Are they not again images in your own mind? tudomnyukkal? Nemde k is kpek az elmdben?

Q: Here lies the basic difference. To me they are not K: Itt van az alapvet klnbsg. Szmomra k nem
my own projections. They were before I was born az n kivettseim. Megvoltak mr megszletsem
and shall be there when I am dead. eltt is, s akkor is lesznek, amikor n mr
meghaltam.

M: Of course. Once you accept time and space as
real, you will consider yourself minute and short-
lived. But are they real? Do they depend on you, or
you on them? As body, you are in space. As mind,
you are in time. But are you mere body with a mind
in it? Have you ever investigated?
M: Termszetesen. Mihelyt a teret s idt
valsgosnak fogadod el, nmagadat parnyinak s
rvid letnek fogod tartani. De valsgosak-e?
Azok fggenek tled, vagy te fggesz azoktl?
Testknt a trben vagy. Elmeknt az idben. De test
vagy-e csupn, benne az elmvel? Megvizsgltad
ezt valaha is?

Q: I had neither the motive nor the method. K: Se motivcim, se mdszerem.

M: I am suggesting both. But the actual work of M: n felajnlom mindkettt. De a tnyleges bels
insight and detachment (viveka-vairagya) is yours. munka, s az elfogulatlansg (viveka-vairagya) a te
dolgod.

Q: The only motive I can perceive is my own K: Az egyetlen motivci, amit el tudok fogadni, az
causeless and timeless happiness. And what is the n sajt ok nlkli, s idtlen boldogsgom. s mi a
method? mdszer?

235
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok

M: Happiness is incidental. The true and effective
motive is love. You see people suffer and you seek
the best way of helping them. The answer is obvious
-- first put yourself beyond the need of help. Be sure
your attitude is of pure goodwill, free of expectation
of any kind.
M: A boldogsg mellkes. Az igazi s hatkony
motivci a szeretet. Ltod, hogy az emberek
szenvednek, s keresed a megsegtsk legjobb
mdjt a. A vlasz nyilvnval elszr lpj tl a
segts szksgn. Lgy benne bizonyos, hogy
hozzllsod a tiszta, mindenfle elvrstl mentes
jakarat.

Those who seek mere happiness may end up in Akik csupn boldogsgot keresnek, teljes
sublime indifference, while love will never rest. kzmbssgben vgezhetik, mg a szeretet
sohasem pihen.

As to method, there is only one -- you must come to Ami a mdszert illeti, csak egy van meg kell
know yourself -- both what you appear to be and ismerned nmagad azt is, aminek ltszol, s azt is,
what you are. Clarity and charity go together -- each ami vagy. Tisztasg s jindulat egytt jrnak
needs and strengthens the other. mindegyik megkveteli s ersti a msikat.

Q: Compassion implies the existence of an objective K: A rszvt egy elkerlhet szomorsggal teli,
world, full of avoidable sorrow. objektv vilg ltezst jelenti.

M: The world is not objective and the sorrow of it is M: A vilg nem objektv, s a szomorsga nem
not avoidable. Compassion is but another word for elkerlhet. A rszvt csak egy tovbbi sz a
the refusal to suffer for imaginary reasons. kpzelt okok miatti szenveds elutastsra.

Q: If the reasons are imaginary, why should the K: Ha az okok kpzeltek, akkor mirt kell a
suffering be inevitable? szenvedsnek elkerlhetetlennek lennie?

M: It is always the false that makes you suffer, the
false desires and fears, the false values and ideas,
the false relationships between people. Abandon the
false and you are free of pain; truth makes happy --
truth liberates.
M: Mindig a hamis miatt szenvedsz, a hamis vgyak
s flelmek, a hamis rtkek s idek, a hamis
emberi kapcsolatok miatt. Add fel a hamisat, s
megszabadulsz a fjdalomtl; az igazsg boldogg
tesz az igazsg megszabadt.

Q: The truth is that I am a mind imprisoned in a body K: Az igazsg az, hogy egy testbe brtnztt elme
and this is a very unhappy truth. vagyok, s ez egy nagyon sajnlatos igazsg.

M: You are neither the body nor in the body -- there M: Te se test nem vagy, se testben lv nem vagy
is no such thing as body. You have grievously nincs olyan dolog, hogy test. Szomor flrerts
misunderstood yourself; to understand rightly -- ldozata vagy; a helyes megrtshez kutatnod
investigate. kell.

Q: But I was born as a body, in a body and shall die K: De n testknt, testben szlettem, s a testtel
with the body, as a body. egytt fogok meghalni, mint test.

M: This is your misconception. Enquire, investigate,
doubt yourself and others. To find truth, you must
not cling to your convictions; if you are sure of the
immediate, you will never reach the ultimate. Your
idea that you were born and that you will die is
absurd: both logic and experience contradict it.
M: E nzeted flrerts. Tanulmnyoz, kutass, vond
ktsgbe magad s minden egyebet. Az igazsg
megtallshoz nem szabad meggyzdseidbe
kapaszkodnod; ha biztos vagy a kzvetlenben, soha
nem fogod elrni a vgst. Ided, hogy szlettl, s
meg fogsz halni, abszurd: mind a logika, mind a
tapasztalat ellentmondanak neki.

Q: All right, I shall not insist that I am the body. You K: Rendben, nem fogok erskdni, hogy n a test
have a point here. But here and now, as I talk to vagyok. Egy pont neked. De itt s most, ahogy
you, I am in my body -- obviously. The body may not hozzd beszlek, a testben vagyok nyilvnvalan.
be me, but it is mine. A test lehet, hogy nem n vagyok, viszont az enym.

M: The entire universe contributes incessantly to M: Az egsz univerzum szakadatlanul hozzjrul a

your existence. Hence the entire universe is your ltezsedhez. Ennl fogva az egsz univerzum a

236
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
body. In that sense -- I agree. tested. Ebben az rtelemben egyetrtek.

Q: My body influences me deeply. In more than one
way my body is my destiny. My character, my
moods, the nature of my reactions, my desires and
fears -- inborn or acquired -- they are all based on
the body. A little alcohol, some drug or other and all
changes. Until the drug wears off I become another
man.
K: A testem mly hatssal van rm. A testem a
sorsom, tbb mdon is. Jellemem, hangulataim,
reakciim termszete, vgyaim s flelmeim (velem
szletett vagy szerzett) mind a testen alapulnak.
Egy kevs alkohol, nmi drog vagy valami ms, s
minden megvltozik. Amg a drog hatsa el nem
mlik, ms ember vagyok.

M: All this happens because you think yourself to be M: Mindezek azrt trtnnek, mert a testnek
the body. Realise your real self and even drugs will gondolod magad. Ismerd fel valdi nedet, s mg a
have no power over you. drogoknak sem lesz hatalma feletted.

Q: You smoke? K: Dohnyzol?

M: My body kept a few habits which may as well M: A testem megtartott nhny szokst, amelyek
continue till it dies. There is no harm in them. hallig megmaradhatnak. Nincs enben semmi
rossz.

Q: You eat meat? K: Eszel hst?

M: I was born among meat-eating people and my M: Hsev emberek kztt szlettem, s
children are eating meat. I eat very little -- and make gyermekeim is esznek hst. n nagyon keveset
no fuss. eszem s nem tulajdontok neki fontossgot.

Q: Meat-eating implies killing. K: A hsevs lssel jr.

M: Obviously. I make no claims of consistency. You M: Nyilvnvalan. Nem tartok ignyt a

think absolute consistency is possible; prove it by kvetkezetessgre. Te gy gondolod, hogy
example. Don't preach what you do not practise. lehetsges az abszolt kvetkezetessg; igazold ezt
pldval. Ne prdikld, amit nem gyakorolsz.

Coming back to the idea of having been born. You
are stuck with what your parents told you: all about
conception, pregnancy and birth, infant, child,
youngster, teenager, and so on. Now, divest yourself
of the idea that you are the body with the help of the
contrary idea that you are not the body. It is also an
idea, no doubt; treat it like something to be
abandoned when its work is done. The idea that I
am not the body gives reality to the body, when in
fact, there is no such thing as body, it is but a state
of mind. You can have as many bodies and as
diverse as you like; just remember steadily what you
want and reject the incompatibles.
Trjnk vissza szletsed idejhoz. Nem tudsz tle
szabadulni, amit szleid mesltek: fogantatsrl,
terhessgrl s szletsrl, csecsemkorrl,
gyermekkorrl, fiatalkorrl, tzes vekrl, stb. No
most, szabadulj meg attl az idetl, hogy a test
vagy, annak az ellenttes idenak a segtsgvel,
hogy nem a test vagy. Ez ktsg kvl csak egy
idea; bnj vele valamilyen munka elkszlte utni
eldobandknt. Az idea, hogy n nem a test vagyok,
realitst ad a testnek, mikor valjban nincs olyan
dolog, hogy test, az csak egy elme llapot. Lehet
annyi, s annyifle tested, amennyi tetszik; csak
kvetkezetesen emlkezz r, hogy mit akarsz, s
utastsd el, ami ezzel sszeegyeztethetetlen.

Q: I am like a box within a box, within another box.
The outer box acting as the body and the one next
to it -- as the indwelling soul. Abstract the outer box
and the next becomes the body and the one next to
it the soul. It is an infinite series, an endless opening
of boxes, is the last one the ultimate soul?
K: Olyan vagyok, mint egy dobozban, egy msik
dobozban lv doboz. A kls doboz test gyannt
szolgl, s a msik a benne rejl llekknt.
Vonatkoztass el a kls doboztl, s a kvetkez
vlik a testt, s az azt kvet a llek. Ez egy
vgtelen sorozat, vg nlkli doboz nyitogats, az
utols a vgs llek?

M: If you have a body, you must have a soul; here M: Ha tested van, lelked is kell, hogy legyen; a te
your simile of a nest of boxes applies. But here and egymsban lv doboz hasonlatod erre vonatkozik.
now, through all your bodies and souls shines De itt s most, minden testeden s lelkeden
awareness, the pure light of chit. Hold on to it keresztl a tudat, a chit tiszta fnye ragyog.

237
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
unswervingly. Without awareness, the body would
not last a second. There is in the body a current of
energy, affection and intelligence, which guides,
maintains and energises the body. Discover that
current and stay with it.
Of course, all these are manners of speaking. Words
are as much a barrier, as a bridge. Find the spark of
life that weaves the tissues of your body and be with
it. It is the only reality the body has.
Q: What happens to that spark of life after death?
M: It is beyond time. Birth and death are but points
in time. Life weaves eternally its many webs. The
weaving is in time, but life itself is timeless.
Whatever name and shape you give to its
expressions, it is like the ocean -- never changing,
ever changing.
Q: All you say sounds beautifully convincing. Yet my
feeling of being just a person in a world strange and
alien, often inimical and dangerous, does not cease.
Being a person, limited in space and time, how can I
possibly realise myself as the opposite; a de-
personalised, universalised awareness of nothing in
particular?
M: You assert yourself to be what you are not and
deny yourself to be what you are. You omit the
element of pure cognition, of awareness free from all
personal distortions. Unless you admit the reality of
chit, you will never know yourself.
Q: What am I to do? I do not see myself as you see
me. Maybe you are right and I am wrong, but how
can I cease to be what I feel I am?
M: A prince who believes himself to be a beggar can
be convinced conclusively in one way only: he must
behave as a prince and see what happens. Behave
as if what I say is true and judge by what actually
happens. All I ask is the little faith needed for making
the first step. With experience will come confidence
and you will not need me any more. I know what you
are and I am telling you. Trust me for a while.
Q: To be here and now, I need my body and its
senses. To understand, I need a mind.
M: The body and the mind are only symptoms of
ignorance, of misapprehension. Behave as if you
were pure awareness, bodiless and mindless,
spaceless and timeless, beyond 'where' and 'when'
and 'how'. Dwell on it, think of it, learn to accept its
reality. Don't oppose it and deny it all the time. Keep
238
Ragaszkodj ehhez, tnotrthatatlanul. Tudat nlkl a
test egy pillanatig sem nem maradna fenn. A testben
raml energia, szeretet s intelligencia irnytja,
tartja fenn, s energizlja a testet. Fedezd fel ezt az
ramlst, s idzz benne.
Termszetesen, ezek csak hasonlatok. A szavak
ppen annyira gtak, mint amennyire hidak. Talld
meg a tested szvedkt szv let tzt, s maradj
vele. Ez az egyetlen valsg, amellyel a test br.
K: Mi trtnik ezzel a tzzel a hall utn?
M: Az idn kvl ll. A szlets s a hall csupn
idpontok. Az let szakadatlanul szvi szmtalan
hljt. A szvs idbeli, de az let maga idtlen.
Akrmilyen nevet s formt tulajdontasz a
megnyilvnulsainak, olyan, mint az cen
sohasem vltozik, rkk vltozik.
K: Mindez meggyzen hangzik. Mgis gy rzem,
hogy a lt csupn egy klns s idegen, gyakran
ellensges s veszedelmes, soha meg nem szn
vilgban l szemly. Trben s idben korltozott
szemly lvn, hogyan realizlhatnm nmagamat
ennek ellentteknt; a semmi megszemlyestetlen,
ltalnostott tudataknt?
M: Annak jelented ki nmagad, ami nem vagy, s
megtadadod annak lenni nmagad, ami vagy.
Kihagyod a tiszta szlels, a minden szemlyes
torztstl tudat mentes elemt. Hacsak el nem
fogadod a chit valsgt, soha nem fogod nmagad
megismerni.
K: Mit kell tennem? n nem gy ltom nmagam,
mint ahogy te ltsz engem. Lehet, hogy igazad van,
s n tvedek, de hogyan hagyhatnm abba, hogy
az legyek, aminek rzem magam?
M: A herceg, aki koldusnak hiszi nmagt, egy
mdon szerezhet perdnt bizonytkot: hercegknt
kell viselkednie, s megfigyelni, hogy mi trtnik.
Viselkedj gy, mintha amit mondok igaz lenne, s
tld meg, ami igazbl trtnik. Mindssze egy
kervs hitet krek, ami az els lps megttelhez
szksges. A tapasztalattal a bizonyossg is meg
fog jnni, s nem lesz szksged rm soha tbb.
n tudom, hogy mi vagy, s elmondom neked. Bzz
bennem egy ideig.
K: Az itt s most lthez testre s rzkekre van
szksgem. A megrtshez elmre.
M: A test s az elme csupn a tudatlansg,
flrerts krtnetei. Viselkedj gy, mintha testetlen
s elmtlen, tr s id nlkli, hol-on, mikor- on s
hogyan-on tli tiszta tudat lennl. Idzz benne,
gondolj r, tanuld meg elfogadni a valsgt. Ne
szeglj ellene, s ne utastsd el rkk. Leaglbbis
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
an open mind at least. Yoga is bending the outer to
the inner. Make your mind and body express the real
which is all and beyond all. By doing you succeed,
not by arguing.
Q: Kindly allow me to come back to my first
question. How does the error of being a person
originate?
M: The absolute precedes time. Awareness comes
first. A bundle of memories and mental habits
attracts attention, awareness gets focalised and a
person suddenly appears. Remove the light of
awareness, go to sleep or swoon away -- and the
person disappears. The person (vyakti) flickers,
awareness (vyakta) contains all space and time, the
absolute (avyakta) is.
55. Give up All and You Gain All
Questioner: What is your state at the present
moment?
Maharaj: A state of non-experiencing. In it all
experience is included.
Q: Can you enter into the mind and heart of another
man and share his experience?
M: No. Such things require special training. I am like
a dealer in wheat. I know little about breads and
cakes. Even the taste of a wheat-gruel I may not
know. But about the wheat grain I know all and well.
I know the source of all experience. But the
innumerable particular forms experience can take I
do not know. Nor do I need to know. From moment
to moment, the little I need to know to live my life, I
somehow happen to know.
Q: Your particular existence and my particular K: A te konkrt ltezsed s az n konkrt
existence, do they both exist in the mind of Brahma? ltezsem mindkett Brahma elmjben ltezik?
M: The universal is not aware of the particular. The
existence as a person is a personal matter. A person
exists in time and space, has name and shape,
beginning and end; the universal includes all
persons and the absolute is at the root of and
beyond all.
Q: I am not concerned with the totality. My personal
consciousness and your personal consciousness --
what is the link between the two?
M: Between two dreamers what can be the link?
Q: They may dream of each other.
239
ne foglalj llst. A Yoga a klst a belshz hajltja.
Elmddel s testeddel a valsgot nyilvntsd ki,
amely minden, s mindenek fltt ll. Cselekvssel
red el a sikert, nem vitatkozssal.
K: Lgy szves, engedd meg, hogy visszatrjek az
els krdsemhez. Mikppen szrmazik a szemly a
ltezs hibjbl?
M: Az abszolt elbb van, mint az id. Elszr van a
tudat. Egy emlkbl s mentlis szoksokbl ll
csomag irnytja magra a figyelmet, a tudat
fkuszldik, s egyszer csak egy szemly jelenik
meg. Tvoltsd el a tudat fnyt, aludj, vagy julj el
s a szemly eltnik. A szemly (vyakti) megvillan, a
tudat (vyakta) magban foglal minden teret s idt,
az abszolt (avyakta) van.
55. Adj fel mindent, s mindent elnyersz
Krdez: Mi az llapotod e pillanatban?
Maharaj: A nem tapasztals llapota. Minden
tapasztals benne foglaltatik.
K: Be tudsz lpni az elmjbe s a szvbe egy
msik embernek, s rszeslni tudsz a
tapasztalataibl?
M: Nem. Az ilyen dolgok specilis kpzst
ignyelnek. n olyan vagyok, mint a bzakeresked.
Keveset tudok kenyerekrl, s stemnyekrl. Mg
a bzaksa zt sem ismerem. De a bzrl
mindent, s jl tudok. Ismerem minden tapasztalatok
forrst. De a megszmllhatatlan konkrt formt,
ami a tapasztalat trgya lehet, nem ismerem. Nincs
is r szksgem. Azt a keveset, amire az letemhez
pillanatrl pillanatra szksges, valahogy vletlenl
tudom.
M: Az egyetemes nem trdik a konkrttal. A
szemlyknt val ltezs a szemly gye. A
szemly idben s trben ltezik, neve van s
formja, kezdete s vge; az egyetemes magban
foglal minden szemlyt, s az abszolt ennek a
gykernl van, s minden fltt ll.
K: Engem nem a teljessg rdekel. Az n
szemlyes tudatossgom, s a te szemlyes
tudatossgod milyen kapcsolat van a kett kztt?
M: Kt lmod kztt milyen kapcsolat lehet?
K: Lehet, hogy egymst lmodjk.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
M: That is what people are doing. Everyone
imagines 'others' and seeks a link with them. The
seeker is the link, there is none other.
Q: Surely there must be something in common
between the many points of consciousness we are.
M: Where are the many points? In your mind. You
insist that your world is independent of your mind.
How can it be? Your desire to know other people's
minds is due to your not knowing your own mind.
First know your own mind and you will find that the
question of other minds does not arise at all, for
there are no other people. You are the common
factor, the only link between the minds. Being is
consciousness; 'I am' applies to all.
Q: The Supreme Reality (Parabrahman) may be
present in all of us. But of what use is it to us?
M: You are like a man who says: 'I need a place
where to keep my things, but of what use is space to
me?' or 'I need milk, tea, coffee or soda, but for
water I have no use'. Don't you see that the
Supreme Reality is what makes everything
possible? But if you ask of what use is it to you, I
must answer: 'None'. In matters of daily life the
knower of the real has no advantage: he may be at a
disadvantage rather: being free from greed and fear,
he does not protect himself. The very idea of profit is
foreign to him; he abhors accretions; his life is
constant divesting oneself, sharing, giving.
Q: If there is no advantage in gaining the Supreme,
then why take the trouble?
M: There is trouble only when you cling to
something. When you hold on to nothing, no trouble
arises. The relinquishing of the lesser is the gaining
of the greater. Give up all and you gain all. Then life
becomes what it was meant to be: pure radiation
from an inexhaustible source. In that light the world
appears dimly like a dream.
Q: If my world is merely a dream and you are a part
of it, what can you do for me? If the dream is not
real, having no being, how can reality affect it?
M: While it lasts, the dream has temporary being. It
is your desire to hold on to it, that creates the
problem. Let go. Stop imagining that the dream is
yours.
240
M: Ezt csinljk az emberek. Mindenki elkpzeli a
tbbieket, s kapcsolatot keres velk. A keres a
kapcsolat, nincs semmi ms.
K: Biztos kell lennie valamilyen kzsnek a
tudatossg sok pontja kztt, akik vagyunk.
M: Hol van az a sok pont? Az elmdben. Azt
bizonygatod, hogy a vilgod fggetlen az elmdtl.
Hogy lehetne gy? A vgyad, hogy ismerd a ms
emberek elmjt, amiatt van, mert nem ismered a
sajt elmdet. Elszr ismerd meg sajt elmdet, s
gy fogod tallni, hogy msok elmjnek krdse
egyltaln nem merl fel, mert nincsenek ms
emberek. Te vagy a kzs tnyez, az egyetlen
kapocs az elmk kztt. A lt tudatossg; az n
vagyok mindenre rvnyes.
K: A Legfelsbb Valsg (Parabrahman) lehet, hogy
mindannyiunkban jelen van. De milyen haszna van
ennek szmunkra?
M: Te olyan vagy, akr az az ember, aki azt mondja:
Szksgem van egy helyre, ahol a dolgaimat
tartom, de milyen haszonnal jr szmomra a tr?,
vagy azt, hogy: A tej, ter, kv vagy a szda
szksgesek szmomra, de a vizet nem sokra
becslm. Nem ltod, hogy a Legfelsbb Valsg
tesz mindent lehetv? De ha azt krdezed, hogy mi
haszna szmodra, akkor azt kell vlaszolnom:
semmi. A mindennapok gyei sorn a valsg
ismerje nem lvez elnyt: st, inkbb htrnyt
szenvedhet: svrgstl s flelemtl mentesen
nem tudja megvdeni nmagt. A nyeresg
gondolata valjban idegen tle; irtzik a
gyarapodstl; lete nmaga lland megfosztsa,
megoszts, ads.
K: Ha nem szrmazik elny a Legfelsbb
elrsbl, akkor mirt vennm magamra a gondot?
M: Gond csak akkor van, amikor kapaszkodsz
valamibe. Ha semmihez nem ragaszkodsz,
semmilyen nehzsg nem merl fel. A kevesebbrl
val lemonds a nagyobbnak a megnyerse. Adj fel
mindent, s mindent elnyersz. Akkor az let azz
vlik, ami lenni szndkozott: egy kiapadhatatlan
forrs tiszta kisugrzsv. Abban a fnyben a vilg
olyan homlyosnak mutatkozik, mint egy lom.
K: Ha az n vilgom egy lom csupn, s te rsze
vagy neki, akkor mit tehetsz rtem? Ha az lom nem
valdi, lt nlkli, hogyan tud hatni r a valsg?
M: Amg tart, addig az lom ideiglenesen ltezik. A
problmt az lom folytatsra irnyul vgyad
okozza. Engedd el. Fejezd be, hogy azt kpzeled, ,
hogy az lom a tid.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: You seem to take for granted that there can be a
dream without a dreamer and that I identify myself
with the dream of my own sweet will. But I am the
dreamer and the dream too. Who is to stop
dreaming?
M: Let the dream unroll itself to its very end. You
cannot help it. But you can look at the dream as a
dream, refuse it the stamp of reality.
Q: Here am I, sitting before you. I am dreaming and
you are watching me talking in my dream. What is
the link between us?
M: My intention to wake you up is the link. My heart
wants you awake. I see you suffer in your dream
and I know that you must wake up to end your woes.
When you see your dream as dream, you wake up.
But in your dream itself I am not interested. Enough
for me to know that you must wake up. You need not
bring your dream to a definite conclusion, or make it
noble, or happy, or beautiful; all you need is to
realise that you are dreaming. Stop imagining, stop
believing. See the contradictions, the incongruities,
the falsehood and the sorrow of the human state,
the need to go beyond. Within the immensity of
space floats a tiny atom of consciousness and in it
the entire universe is contained.
Q: There are affections in the dream which seem
real and everlasting. Do they disappear on waking
up?
M: In dream you love some and not others. On
waking up you find you are love itself, embracing all.
Personal love, however intense and genuine,
invariably binds; love in freedom is love of all.
Q: People come and go. One loves whom one
meets, one cannot love all.
M: When you are love itself, you are beyond time
and numbers. In loving one you love all, in loving all, llsz idnek, s szmoknak. Egy szeretetvel mind
you love each. One and all are not exclusive.
Q: You say you are in a timeless state. Does it mean K: Azt mondod, idtlen llapotban vagy. Ez azt
that past and future are open to you? Did you meet jelenti, hogy mlt s jv nyitva llnak eltted?
Vashishta Muni, Rama's Guru? Tallkoztl Rama Gurujval, Vashishta Munival?
M: The question is in time and about time. Again you
are asking me about the contents of a dream.
Timelessness is beyond the illusion of time, it is not
an extension in time. He who called himself
241
K: gy ltszik, szmodra magtl rtetdik, hogy
lom ltezhet lmod nlkl, s, hogy n az n sajt
des kvnsgom szerinti lommal azonostom
magam. De n vagyok az lmod, s az lom is.
Kinek kell lelltania az lmot?
M: Hagyd az lmot magtl bontakozni, s eljutni a
vgig. Te nem segthetsz ebben. De tekinthetsz az
lomra lomknt, megtagadva tle a valsg
blyegt.
K: Itt vagyok, eltted lk. lmodom, s te nzel
engem, ahogy lmomban beszlek. Mi a kapcsolat
kzttnk?
M: Az n felbresztsedre irnyul szndkom a
kapcsolat. A szvem akarja, hogy felbredj. Ltom,
szenvedsz lmodban, s tudom, hogy fel kell
bredned, hogy megprbltatsaid vget rjenek.
Amikor lmodat lomnak ltod, felbredsz. De az
lmod nem rdekel. Nekem elg, ha azt tudom,
hogy fel kell, hogy bredj. Nem szksges, hogy az
lmodat meghatrozott eredmnyre juttasd, vagy
hogy nagyszerv, vagy boldogg, vagy szpp
tedd; mindssze arra van szksg, hogy felismerd,
hogy lmodsz. llj le a kpzelgssel, llj le az
nhitegetssel. Lsd meg az emberi llapot
ellentmondsait, sszhangnlklisgeit, hamissgt
s szomorsgt, meghaladsnak
szksgessgt. A tr vgtelensgn bell szik a
tudatossg piciny atomja, amely az egsz
univerzumot tartalmazza.
K: Vannak az lomban olyan benyomsok, amelyek
valdinak, s rkk tartnak tnnek. Eltnnek ezek
a felbredskor?
M: lomban nmelyeket szeretsz, s msokat nem.
Felbredskor gy tallod, hogy te vagy maga a
mindent tlel szeretet. Jllehet a szemlyes
szeretet ers s szinte, megvltoztathatatlanul
megktz; a szabadsg irnti szeretet minden irnti
szeretet.
K: Az emberek jnnek, s mennek. Valaki szereti,
akit megismer, ms egyltaln nem tud szeretni.
M: Amikor te vagy maga a szeretet, akkor fltte
szereted, mind szeretetvel mindegyiket szereted.
Egy mind nem zrjk ki egymst.
M: A krds idbeli, s idrl szl. Ismt az lom
tartalmairl krdezel. Az idtlensg meghaladja az
id illzijt, nem idbeli meghosszabbts. Aki
nmagt Vashishtnak nevezte, az ismerte
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Vashishta knew Vashishta. I am beyond all names
and shapes. Vashishta is a dream in your dream.
How can I know him? You are too much concerned
with past and future. It is all due to your longing to
continue, to protect yourself against extinction. And
as you want to continue, you want others to keep
you company, hence your concern with their
survival. But what you call survival is but the survival
of a dream. Death is preferable to it . There is a
chance of waking up.
Q: You are aware of eternity, therefore you are not
concerned with survival.
M: It is the other way round. Freedom from all desire
is eternity. All attachment implies fear, for all things
are transient. And fear makes one a slave. This
freedom from attachment does not come with
practice; it is natural, when one knows one's true
being. Love does not cling; clinging is not love.
Q: So there is no way to gain detachment?
M: There is nothing to gain. Abandon all imaginings
and know yourself as you are. Self-knowledge is
detachment. All craving is due to a sense of
insufficiency. When you know that you lack nothing,
that all there is, is you and yours, desire ceases.
Q: To know myself must I practise awareness?
M: There is nothing to practise. To know yourself, be
yourself. To be yourself, stop imagining yourself to
be this or that. Just be. Let your true nature emerge.
Don't disturb your mind with seeking.
Q: It will take much time if I just wait for self-
realisation.
M: What have you to wait for when it is already here
and now? You have only to look and see. Look at
your self, at your own being. You know that you are
and you like it. Abandon all imagining, that is all. Do
not rely on time. Time is death. Who waits -- dies.
Life is now only. Do not talk to me about past and
future -- they exist only in your mind.
Q: You too will die.
M: I am dead already. Physical death will make no
difference in my case. I am timeless being. I am free
of desire or fear, because I do not remember the
past, or imagine the future. Where there are no
242
Vashishtt. n minden nven s formn tl vagyok.
Vashishta lom az lmodban. Hogy ismerhetnm t
most? Tl sokat trdsz a mlttal s a jvvel.
Mindez amiatt van, mert vgydsz a folytonossgra,
nmagad megsemmislssel szembeni vdelmre.
s mivel folytonossgra vgysz, meg akarsz tartani
msokat a trsasgodban, ennlfogva rdekelt vagy
a tllskben. De amit te tllsnek nevezel, az
csak az lom tllse. A hallnak kvnatosabb
nla. Lehetsget knl a felbredsre.
K: Tudatban vagy az rkkvalsgnak, ennl
fogva nem trdsz a tllssel.
M: Fordtva. A minden vgytl val szabadsg az
rkkvalsg. Minden ktds flelmet
eredmnyez, mert minden dolog muland. s a
flelem szolgv teszi az embert. Ez a ktdstl
val mentessg nem gyakorlatok ltal keletkezik;
termszetes velejrja az ember sajt lte
ismeretnek. A szeretet nem ragaszkodik; a
ragaszkods nem szeretet.
K: Nem lehet teht semmilyen mdszerrel elrni a
prtatlansgot?
M: Semmi sincs, amit el kellene rni. Hagyj fel
mindenfle kpzeldssel, s ismerd magad annak,
ami vagy. Az nismeret prtatlansg. Minden knz
vgy az elgtelensg rzse miatt van. Mikor tudod,
hogy semminek nem vagy hjn, hogy minden ami
van, te vagy, s a tid, a vgy megsznik.
K: nmagam megismershez gyakorolnom kell a
tudatossgot?
M: Semmit nem kell gyakorolni. nmagad
megismershez lgy nmagad. Csak akkor lehetsz
nmagad, ha abbahagyod, hogy ennek, vagy annak
kpzeled magad. Csupn legyl. Hagyd igazi
termszetedet megjelenni. Ne zavard elmdet
keresssel.
K: Sokig tartana, ha vrnk csupn az
nmegvalstsra.
M: Mire kell vrnod, amikor az mr itt s most van?
Csak nzned kell, s ltnod. Nzz nmagadra, sajt
ltedre. Tudod, hogy vagy, s szereted ezt. Hagyj
abba minden kpzeldst, ez minden. Ne pts az
idre. Az id halott. Aki vr meghal. Az let csak
most van. Ne beszlj nekem mltrl s jvrl
azok csak a te elmdben lteznek.
K: Te is meg fogsz halni.
M: n mr halott vagyok. A fizikai hall nem fog
klnbsget jrni az n esetemben. Vgy s flelem
mentes vagyok, mert nem emlkszem a mltra, s
nem kpzelem a jvt. Ahol nincsenek nevek s
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
names and shapes, how can there be desire and
fear? With desirelessness comes timelessness. I am
safe, because what is not, cannot touch what is. You
feel unsafe, because you imagine danger. Of
course, your body as such is complex and
vulnerable and needs protection. But not you. Once
you realise your own unassailable being, you will be
at peace.
Q: How can I find peace when the world suffers?
M: The world suffers for very valid reasons. If you
want to help the world, you must be beyond the
need of help. Then all your doing as well as not
doing will help the world most effectively.
Q: How can non-action be of use where action is
needed?
M: Where action is needed, action happens. Man is
not the actor. His is to be aware of what is going on.
His very presence is action. The window is the
absence of the wall and it gives air and light
because it is empty. Be empty of all mental content,
of all imagination and effort, and the very absence of
obstacles will cause reality to rush in. If you really
want to help a person, keep away. If you are
emotionally committed to helping, you will fail to
help. You may be very busy and be very pleased
with your charitable nature, but not much will be
done. A man is really helped when he is no longer in
need of help. All else is just futility.
Q: There is not enough time to sit and wait for help
to happen. One must do something.
M: By all means -- do. But what you can do is
limited; the self alone is unlimited. Give limitlessly --
of yourself. All else you can give in small measures
only. You alone are immeasurable. To help is your
very nature. Even when you eat and drink you help
your body. For yourself you need nothing. You are
pure giving, beginning-less, endless, inexhaustible.
When you see sorrow and suffering, be with it. Do
not rush into activity. Neither learning nor action can
really help. Be with sorrow and lay bare its roots --
helping to understand is real help.
Q: My death is nearing.
M: Your body is short of time, not you. Time and
space are in the mind only. You are not bound. Just
understand yourself -- that itself is eternity.
243
formk, hogy lehetne ott vgy s flelem? Vgy
nlklisggel idtlensg jr. Biztonsgban vagyok,
mert ami nincs, nem rintheti meg azt, ami van. Te
veszlyben rzed magad, mert bekpzeled a
veszlyt. Termszetesen, a tested, mint olyan,
bonyolult, s sebezhet, s vdelmet ignyel. De te
nem. Amikor felismered sajt megtmadhatatlan
lnyedet, bkben leszel.
K: Hogyan tallhatnk bkt, mikor a vilg szenved?
M: A vilg nagyon alapos okok miatt szenved. Ha
segteni akarsz a vilgon, tl kell lpned a segtsg
szksgessgn. Akkor minden cselekvsed,
valamint nem cselekvsed, a leghatkonyabban
fogja segteni a vilgot.
K: Hogyan tudna a nem cselekvs hasznos lenni,
amikor cselekvsre van szksg?
M: Ahol cselekvsre van szksg, ott cselekvs
trtnik. Nem az ember a cselekv. Az szerepe az,
hogy tudatban legyen annak, ami vgbemegy.
Valjban a jelenlte a cselekvs. Az ablak a fal
hinya, s azrt bocsjtja be levegt s fnyt, mert
res. rts ki minden mentlis tartalmat, minden
elkpzelst s erfesztst, s az akadlyok teljes
hinya a valsg beradst fogja elidzni. Ha
valakinek valban segteni akarsz, maradj tle tvol.
Ha elktelezett vagy rzelmileg, hogy segts, akkor
segtsged sikertelen lesz. Lehetsz nagyon elfoglalt,
s nagyon elgedett a jtkonykodssal, de nem
rsz el vele sokat. Akkor kap valdi segtsget az
ember, ha tbb nincs szksge segtsgre. Minden
egyb hibavalsg csupn.
K: Nem elegend az id lni, s vrni, hogy
segtsg rkezzen. Az embernek csinlnia kell
valamit.
M: Termszetesen csinlj. De amit tenni tudsz, az
korltozott; egyedl az n korltlan. Add korltlanul
nmagadat. Minden mst, csak kis mrtkben
adhatsz. Egyedl te vagy mrhetetlen. Segteni, a te
valdi termszeted. Mg amikor eszel s iszol, akkor
is segted a testedet. nmagadnak semmire nincs
szksged. Te szntiszta ads vagy, kezdet nlkl,
vg nlkl, kiapadhatatlanul. Sem tanuls, sem
cselekvs nem tud igazn segteni. Lgy a
fjdalommal, s fedd fel gykereit a megrtst
segteni, az igazi segtsg.
K: Kzeleg a hallom.
M: A testednek van kevs ideje, nem neked. Id s
tr az elmben vannak csupn. Te ktelkek nlkli
vagy. Csak rtsd nmagadat ez maga az
rkkvalsg.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
56. Consciousness Arising, World
Arises
Questioner: When an ordinary man dies, what
happens to him?
Maharaj: According to his belief it happens. As life
before death is but imagination, so is life after. The
dream continues.
Q: And what about the gnani?
M: The gnani does not die because he was never
born.
Q: He appears so to others.
M: But not to himself. In himself he is free of things -
- physical and mental.
Q: Still you must know the state of the man who
died. At least from your own past lives.
M: Until I met my Guru I knew so many things. Now I
know nothing, for all knowledge is in dream only and
not valid. I know myself and I find no life nor death in
me, only pure being -- not being this or that, but just
being. But the moment the mind, drawing on its
stock of memories, begins to imagine, it fills the
space with objects and time with events. As I do not
know even this birth, how can I know past births? It
is the mind that, itself in movement, sees everything
moving, and having created time, worries about the
past and future. All the universe is cradled in
consciousness (maha tattva), which arises where
there is perfect order and harmony (maha sattva).
As all waves are in the ocean, so are all things
physical and mental in awareness. Hence
awareness itself is all important, not the content of it.
Deepen and broaden your awareness of yourself
and all the blessings will flow. You need not seek
anything, all will come to you most naturally and
effortlessly. The five senses and the four functions of
the mind -- memory, thought, understanding and
selfhood; the five elements -- earth, water, fire, air
and ether; the two aspects of creation -- matter and
spirit, all are contained in awareness.
Q: Yet, you must believe in having lived before.
M: The scriptures say so, but I know nothing about
it. I know myself as I am; as I appeared or will
appear is not within my experience. It is not that I do
not remember. In fact there is nothing to remember.
Reincarnation implies a reincarnating self. There is
244
56. Tudatossg megjelensvel a vilg is
megjelenik
Krdez: Amikor meghal egy tlagember, mi
trtnik vele?
Maharaj: A hite szerint trtnik. Ahogy a hall eltti
let csak kpzelds, gy az utna lv let is. Az
lom folytatdik.
K: s mi a helyzet a gnanival?
M: A gnani nem hal meg, mivel soha nem szletett.
K: Olyannak tnik, mint msok.
M: De nmagnak nem. nmagn bell
megszabadult a dolgoktl fizikailag s mentlisan.
K: Neked mgiscsak ismerned kell a meghalt ember
llapott. Legalbbis elz leteidbl.
M: Amg nem tallkoztam Gurummal, sok dolgot
tudtam. Most semmit sem tudok, mert minden tuds
lombeli csupn, s nem valdi. Ismerem nmagam,
s nem tallok magamban sem letet, sem hallt,
csak tiszta ltezst nem ekknt, vagy akknt val
ltezst, hanem csupn ltezst. De a pillanatban,
ahogy az elme ignybe veszi emlkei trhzt,
elkezd kpzeldni, betlti a teret objektumokkal, s
az idt esemnyekkel. Minthogy mg errl a
szletsrl sem tudok, hogy ismerhetnm az elmlt
szletseket? Az elme az, mely maga mozgsban
lvn mindent mozogni lt, s idt teremtve mlt s
jv miatt aggdik. Az egsz univerzum be van
gyazva a tudatossgba (maha tattva), amely ott
jelenik meg, ahol tkletes rend, s harmnia (maha
sattva) van. Mint az cenban a hullmok, olyanok a
fizikai s mentlis dolgok a tudatban. Ebbl ered
magnak a tudatnak minden fontossga, nem pedig
annak a tartalmbl. Mlytsd s bvtsd nmagad
tudatt, s az sszes isteni lds feld fog folyni.
Nem kell keresned semmit, minden oda fog jnni
hozzd, a legtermszetesebb mdon, s erfeszts
nlkl. Az t rzk s az elme ngy funkcija
emlkezs, gondolkods, megrts s szemlyisg;
az t elem fld, vz, tz, leveg s ter; a teremts
kt aspektusa anyag s szellem, mind benne
foglaltatnak a tudatban.
K: De mgiscsak el kell hinned, hogy volt elz
leted.
M: A szent knyvek gy mondjk, de n errl semmit
sem tudok. n n vagyokknt ismerem magam;
ahogy megjelentem, vagy meg fogok jelenni, arrl
nincs tapasztalatom. Nem az a helyzet, hogy nem
emlkszem. Tnyleg nincs semmi, amire
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
no such thing. The bundle of memories and hopes,
called the 'I', imagines itself existing everlastingly
and creates time to accommodate its false eternity:
To be, I need no past or future. All experience is
born of imagination; I do not imagine, so no birth or
death happens to me. Only those who think
themselves born can think themselves re-born. You
are accusing me of having been born -- I plead not
guilty.
All exists in awareness and awareness neither dies
nor is reborn. It is the changeless reality itself.
All the universe of experience is born with the body
and dies with the body; it has its beginning and end
in awareness, but awareness knows no beginning,
nor end. If you think it out carefully and brood over it
for a long time, you will come to see the light of
awareness in all its clarity and the world will fade out
of your vision. It is like looking at a burning incense
stick, you see the stick and the smoke first; when
you notice the fiery point, you realise that it has the
power to consume mountains of sticks and fill the
universe with smoke. Timelessly the self actualises
itself, without exhausting its infinite possibilities. In
the incense stick simile the stick is the body and the
smoke is the mind. As long as the mind is busy with
its contortions, it does not perceive its own source.
The Guru comes and turns your attention to the
spark within. By its very nature the mind is outward
turned; it always tends to seek for the source of
things among the things themselves; to be told to
look for the source within, is, in a way, the beginning
of a new life. Awareness takes the place of
consciousness; in consciousness there is the 'I', who
is conscious while awareness is undivided;
awareness is aware of itself. The 'I am' is a thought,
while awareness is not a thought, there is no 'I am
aware' in awareness. Consciousness is an attribute
while awareness is not; one can be aware of being
conscious, but not conscious of awareness. God is
the totality of consciousness, but awareness is
beyond all -- being as well as not-being.
Q: I had started with the question about the
condition of a man after death. When his body is
destroyed, what happens to his consciousness?
Does he carry his senses of seeing, hearing etc.
along with him or does he leave them behind? And,
if he loses his senses, what becomes to his
consciousness?
M: Senses are mere modes of perception. As the
grosser modes disappear, finer states of
consciousness emerge.
245
emlkeznem kellene. A reinkarnci egy
reinkarnld nre utal. Nem ltezik ilyesmi. Az az
emlkekbl s remnyekbl ll csomag, amit n-
nek neveznk, vget nem ren lteznek kpzeli
magt, idt teremt, hogy frhelyet nyjtson hamis
rkkvalsga szmra: lenni nincs szksgem
mltra s jvre. Minden tapasztalat kpzelds
szlemnye; n nem kpzeldk, teht szlets
vagy hall sem trtnnek velem. Csak azok tudjk
azt gondolni, hogy jraszletettek, akik szletettnek
gondoljk magukat. Azzal vdolsz, hogy szlettem
nem rzem magam bnsnek.
Minden a tudatban ltezik, s a tudat sem nem
szletik, sem nem hal meg. Az a megvltozhatatlan
valsg maga.
Az egsz tapasztalati vilg a testtel szletik, s a
testtel hal meg; kezdete s vge a tudatban van, de
a tudat nem ismer sem kezdetet, sem vget. Ha
alaposan tgondolod, s sokat tprengsz rajta, a
tudat fnyt egyre tisztbban fogod ltni, a vilg
vzija pedig fokozatosan elhalvnyodik. Ez ahhoz
hasonlt, mint amikor egy meggyjtott fstl plcika
figyelse sorn elbb a plcikt s a fstt ltod;
majd amikor figyelmedet az izz rszre irnytod
felismered, hogy a benne lv er plcika hegyeket
hamvaszt el, s fsttel tlti meg az univerzumot. Az
n idtlen mdon aktualizlja magt, vgtelen
lehetsgei kimerlse nlkl. A fstl plca
hasonlatban a plca a test, s a fst az elme. Amg
az elme a maga torzulsai ltal elfoglalt, nem szleli
sajt forrst. Aztn jn a Guru, s figyelmedet a
bels szikrra irnytja. Valdi termszetnl fogva
az elme kifel fordult; a dolgok forrst mindig
maguk a dolgok kztt igyekszik megtallni; annak
meghallst, hogy a forrst bell keresse,
tekinhetjk egy j let kezdetnek. A tudatossgot
felvltja a tudat; a tudatossgban jelen van az n,
aki tudatos, mg a tudat osztatlan; a tudat tudatban
van nmagnak. Az n vagyok egy gondolat, mg a
tudat nem gondolat, a tudatban n tudat vagyok
nem ltezik. A tudatossg egy attribtum, mg az
tudat nem az; az ember tudatban lehet a
tudatossgnak, de nincs tudatban a tudatnak.
Isten a tudatossg totalitsa, de a tudat mindenek
fltt ll ltezs, ugyanakkor nem ltezs.
K: A krdsem eredetileg az ember hall utni
llapotra vontakozott. A test megsemmislse utn
mi trtnik a tudatossggal? Megmaradnak a lts,
halls, stb. rzkelsnek a kpessgei, vagy ezek
elmaradnak? s az rzkelsi kpessgeit elveszti,
mi lesz a tudatossgval?
M: A rzkel kpessgek szlelsi mdok csupn.
A durvbb mdok eltnsvel, finomabb tudatossgi
llapotok jelennek meg.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: Is there no transition to awareness after death?
M: There can be no transition from consciousness to
awareness, for awareness is not a form of
consciousness. Consciousness can only become
more subtle and refined and that is what happens
after death. As the various vehicles of man die off,
the modes of consciousness induced by them also
fade away.
Q: Until only unconsciousness remains?
M: Look at yourself talking of unconsciousness as
something that comes and goes. Who is there to be
conscious of unconsciousness? As long as the
window is open, there is sunlight in the room. With
the windows shut, the sun remains, but does it see
the darkness in the room? Is there anything like
darkness to the sun? There is no such thing as
unconsciousness, for unconsciousness is not
experienceable. We infer unconsciousness when
there is a lapse in memory or communication. If I
stop reacting, you will say that I am unconscious. In
reality I may be most acutely conscious, only unable
to communicate or remember.
Q: I am asking a simple question: there are about
four billion people in the world and they are all
bound to die. What will be their condition after death
-- not physically, but psychologically? Will their
consciousness continue? And if it does, in what
form? Do not tell me that I am not asking the right
question, or that you do not know the answer, or that
in your world my question is meaningless; the
moment you start talking about your world and my
world as different and incompatible, you build a wall
between us. Either we live in one world or your
experience is of no use to us.
M: Of course we live in one world. Only I see it as it
is, while you don't. You see yourself in the world,
while I see the world in myself. To you, you get born
and die, while to me, the world appears and
disappears. Our world is real, but your view of it is
not. There is no wall between us, except the one
built by you. There is nothing wrong with the senses,
it is your imagination that misleads you. It covers up
the world as it is, with what you imagine it to be --
something existing independently of you and yet
closely following your inherited, or acquired patterns.
There is a deep contradiction in your attitude, which
you do not see and which is the cause of sorrow.
You cling to the idea that you were born into a world
of pain and sorrow; I know that the world is a child of
love, having its beginning, growth and fulfilment in
love. But I am beyond love even.
246
K: A hallt nem valamilyen tudatba vezet tmenet
kveti?
M: Nem lehetsges semmifle tudatossgbl a
tudatba vezet tmenet, mert a tudat nem egy
tudatossg forma. A tudatossg csak szubtilisabb
s finomabb vlhat, s ez az, ami a hall utn
trtnik. Ahogy az ember eszkzei soban
elpusztulnak, az ltaluk elidzett tudatossgi
mdok szintn eltnnek.
K: Amg egyedl a tudattalansg marad?
M: Vizsgld meg tudattalansgrl beszl
nmagadat, aki valami olyannak tekinti azt, ami jn
s megy. Ki van tudatban a tudattalansgnak?
Amg az ablak nyitva van, addig a szoba tele van
napfnnyel. Az ablak bezrsakor a nap fennmarad,
de ltod-e a sttsget a szobban? Ltezik-e a
napon olyasmi, mint sttsg? Nincs olyan, hogy
tudattalansg, mert a tudattalansg nem
tapasztalhat. Azt rtjk tudattalansg alatt, ha
emlkezet kiess, vagy kommunikcis hiba
kvetkezik be. Ha nem reaglok, akkor azt mondod,
tudattalan vagyok. Valjban lehet, hogy sokkal
intenzvebben vagyok tudatos, csak kptelen vagyok
kommuniklni, vagy emlkezni.
K: Lenne egy egyszer krdsem: a fldn l
krlbell ngy millird ember mindegyike meghal
egyszer. Milyen llapotba fognak kerlni halluk
utn nem fizikai, hanem llektani szempontbl?
Folytatdni fog-e a tudatossguk? s ha igen,
milyen formban? Ne mondd, hogy nem a megfelel
krdst teszem fel, vagy, hogy nem tudsz vlaszolni,
vagy, hogy a te vilgodban a krdsem rtelmetlen;
a pillanatban, hogy arrl kezdesz beszlni, hogy a te
vilgod s az n vilgom klnbz s nem
sszeegyeztethet, falat ptesz kznk. Vagy egy
vilgban lnk, vagy tapasztalataidnak nincs haszna
szmunkra.
M: Termszetesen egy vilgban lnk. Csakhogy n
olyannak ltom, amilyen, te pedig nem. Te gy
ltod, hogy te vagy a vilgban, mg n g ltom,
hogy a vilg van nbennem. Te szerinted te szletsz
s meghalsz, mg az n szmomra a vilg az, ami
megjelenik s eltnik. A vilgunk valdi, de a te
nzeted rla, nem az. Nincs kzttnk fal, kivve azt
az egyet, amit te ptettl. Semmi baj az rzkekkel,
a kpzeleted az, amely flrevezet tged. Elfedi a
ltez vilgot azzal, aminek azt kpzeled
valamivel, ami tled fggetlenl ltezik, s mgis
teljesen a te rkltt, vagy szerzett mintidat kveti.
Hozzllsodban mly ellentmonds rejlik, amit nem
ltsz, s ami a fjdalom forrsa. Ragaszkodsz az
idehoz, hogy beleszlettl egy fjdalmas s
szomor vilgba; n pedig tudom, hogy a vilg a
szeretet gyermeke, amely szeretetben szletik,
nvekszik, s teljesedik be. De n a szereteten is tl
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: If you have created the world out of love, why is it K: Ha vilgot a szeretetbl teremtetted, mirt olyan
so full of pain? szenvedssel teli?
M: You are right -- from the body's point of view. But
you are not the body. You are the immensity and
infinity of consciousness. Don't assume what is not
true and you will see things as I see them. Pain and
pleasure, good and bad, right and wrong: these are
relative terms and must not be taken absolutely.
They are limited and temporary.
Q: In the Buddhist tradition it is stated that a Nirvani,
an enlightened Buddha, has the freedom of the
universe. He can know and experience for himself
all that exists. He can command, interfere with
nature, with the chain of causation, change the
sequence of events, even undo the past. The world
is still with him but he is free in it.
M: What you describe is God. Of course, where
there is a universe, there will also be its counterpart,
which is God. But I am beyond both. There was a
kingdom in search of a king. They found the right
man and made him king. In no way had he changed.
He was merely given the title, the rights and the
duties of a king. His nature was not affected, only his
actions. Similarly, with the enlightened man; the
content of his consciousness undergoes a radical
transformation. But he is not misled. He knows the
changeless.
Q: The changeless cannot be conscious.
Consciousness is always of change. The
changeless leaves no trace in consciousness.
M: Yes and no. The paper is not the writing, yet it
carries the writing. The ink is not the message, nor is
the reader's mind the message -- but they all make
the message possible.
Q: Does consciousness come down from reality or is K: A tudatossg a valsgbl szrmazik, vagy az
it an attribute of matter? anyagnak egy sajtossga?
M: Consciousness as such is the subtle counterpart
of matter. Just as inertia (tamas) and energy (rajas)
are attributes of matter, so does harmony (sattva)
manifest itself as consciousness. You may consider
it in a way as a form of very subtle energy. Wherever
matter organises itself into a stable organism,
consciousness appears spontaneously. With the
destruction of the organism consciousness
disappears.
Q: Then what survives?
247
vagyok.
M: Igazad van a test nzpontjbl. De te nem a
test vagy. Te a tudatossg roppan terjedelme, s
vgtelensge vagy. Ne felttelezz olyat, ami nem
igaz, s gy fogod ltni a dolgokat, ahogy n ltom
azokat. Szenveds s rm, j s rossz, helyes s
helytelen: ezek viszonylagos kifejezsek, s nem
szabad abszoltnak tekinteni. Korltozottak s
idlegesek.
K: A Buddhista hagyomny szerint a Nirvani, a
megvilgosodott Buddha, az univerzum
szabadsgval br. nmagtl ismerni s
tapasztalni kpes mindent, ami ltezik. Uralni tudja a
termszetet, bele tud avatkozni annak oksgi
lncolatba, meg tudja vltoztatni az esemnyek
rendjt, akr mg a mltat is meg nem trtntt
tudja tenni. A vilggal egytt van ugyan, de
szabad benne.
M: Amit lertl, az Isten. Termszetesen, ha lenne
vilg, akkor megfelelje is lenne, amely Isten. De n
mindegyiken tl vagyok. Volt egyszer egy kirlysg,
amely kirlyt keresett. Megkerestk a megfelel
embert, s megtettk kirlynak. Semmi nem
vltozott benne. Csupn cmet, jogokat, s kirlyi
ktelessgeket kapott. Termszett ez nem
rintette, csupn cselekedeteit. Hasonlkppen van
a megvilgosodott emberrel; tudatossgnak a
tartalma radiklisan talakul. De ez t nem tveszti
meg. Ismeri a megvltozhatatlant.
K: A megvltozhatatlan nem lehet tudatos. A
tudatossg mindig vltozssal kapcsolatos. A
megvltozhatatlan nem hagy nyomot a
tudatossgban.
M: Igen, s nem. Nem a papr az rs, mgis
hordozza azt. Nem a tinta az zenet, s az olvas
elmje sem az de ezek teszik lehetv az
zenetet.
M: A tudatossg, mint olyan, az anyagnak a finom
megfelelje. Mikppen a tehetetlensg (tamas) s a
tetter (rajas) az anyagnak a sajtossgai, gy
manifesztlja magt tudatossgknt a harmnia
(sattva). Tekintheted, bizonyos mdon, egy nagyon
szubtilis energia fomnak is. Az anyag akrhol is
megszervezi magt, mint stabil organizmus, ott
spontn megjelenik a tudatossg. Az organizmus
pusztulsval a tudatossg is eltnik.
K: Akkor mi az, ami fennmarad?
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
M: That, of which matter and consciousness are but
aspects, which is neither born nor dies.
Q: If it is beyond matter and consciousness, how
can it be experienced?
M: It can be known by its effects on both; look for it
in beauty and in bliss. But you will understand
neither body nor consciousness, unless you go
beyond both.
Q: Please tell us squarely: are you conscious or
unconscious?
M: The enlightened (gnani) is neither. But in his
enlightenment (gnana) all is contained. Awareness
contains every experience. But he who is aware is
beyond every experience. He is beyond awareness
itself.
Q: There is the background of experience, call it
matter. There is the experiencer, call it mind. What
makes the bridge between the two?
M: The very gap between is the bridge. That, which
at one end looks like matter and at the other as
mind, is in itself the bridge. Don't separate reality
into mind and body and there will be no need of
bridges.
Consciousness arising, the world arises. When you
consider the wisdom and the beauty of the world,
you call it God. Know the source of it all, which is in
yourself, and you will find all your questions
answered.
Q: The seer and the seen: are they one or two?
M: There is only seeing; both the seer and the seen
are contained in it. Don't create differences where
there are none.
Q: I began with the question about the man who
died. You said that his experiences will shape
themselves according to his expectations and
beliefs.
M: Before you were born you expected to live
according to a plan, which you yourself had laid
down. Your own will was the backbone of your
destiny.
Q: Surely, karma interfered.
M: Karma shapes the circumstances: the attitudes M: A karma a krlmnyeket alaktja: a hozzlls a
are your own. Ultimately your character shapes your te sajtod. Vgl is a jellemed alaktja az leted, s
life and you alone can shape your character. egyedl te alakthatod a jellemedet.
248
M: Az, aminek anyag s tudatossg csak
aspektusai, ami sem nem szletik, sem nem hal.
K: Ha ez anyagon s tudatossgon tli, akkor
hogyan tapasztalhat?
M: Hatsai alapjn ismerhet fel; a szpsgben s a
boldogsgban keresd. De sem a testet, sem a
tudatossgot nem fogod megrteni, hacsak nem
haladod meg mindkettt.
K: Mondd meg, szintn: te tudatos vagy, vagy
tudattalan?
M: A megvilgosodott (gnani) egyik sem. De
megvilgosodsa (gnana) mindkettt magban
foglalja. A tudat tartalmaz minden tapasztalatot. De
aki tudatos, az minden tapasztalson tl van.
magn a tudaton is tl van.
K: A tapasztals alapjt nevezzk anyagnak. A
tapasztalt nevezzk elmnek. Mi alkotja a hidat
kettejk kztt?
M: Valjban a kettjk kztti szakadk a hd. Ami
egyszer anyagnak ltszik, msszor elmnek, az
maga a hd. Ne vlaszd szt a valsgot testre s
elmre, s nem lesz szksged hidakra.
Ha tudatossg jelenik meg, a vilg is megjelenik.
Amikor a vilg blcsessgt s szpsgt tekinted,
akkor azt Istennek nevezed. Ismerd meg a forrst
teljesen, amely nmagadban van, s minden
krdsedre vlaszt fogsz tallni.
K: A lt, s a ltott: egyek ezek, vagy kt
klnbz dolog?
M: Egyedl csak lts van; mind a lt, mind a ltott
benne foglaltatik. Ne teremts klnbsgeket, ahol
nincs.
K: A meghalt emberrl szl krdssel kezdtem. Azt
mondtad, hogy az tapasztalatai aszerint fognak
alakulni, hogy mik az elvrsai, s a hite.
M: Szletsed eltt elvrtad, hogy egy tervnek
megfelelen lj, amit te magad hatroztl meg. A te
sajt akaratod volt sorsod gerince.
K: A karma bizonyra kzrehatott.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: How does one shape one's character?
M: By seeing it as it is, and being sincerely sorry.
This integral seeing-feeling can work miracles. It is
like casting a bronze image; metal alone, or fire
alone will not do; nor will the mould be of any use;
you have to melt down the metal in the heat of the
fire and cast it in the mould.
57. Beyond Mind there is no Suffering
Questioner: I see you sitting in your son's house
waiting for lunch to be served. And I wonder whether
the content of your consciousness is similar to mine,
or partly different, or totally different. Are you hungry
and thirsty as I am, waiting rather impatiently for the
meals to be served, or are you in an altogether
different state of mind?
Maharaj: There is not much difference on the
surface, but very much of it in depth. You know
yourself only through the senses and the mind. You
take yourself to be what they suggest; having no
direct knowledge of yourself, you have mere ideas;
all mediocre, second-hand, by hearsay. Whatever
you think you are you take it to be true; the habit of
imagining yourself perceivable and describable is
very strong with you.
I see as you see, hear as you hear, taste as you
taste, eat as you eat. I also feel thirst and hunger
and expect my food to be served on time. When
starved or sick, my body and mind go weak. All this I
perceive quite clearly, but somehow I am not in it, I
feel myself as if floating over it, aloof and detached.
Even not aloof and detached. There is aloofness
and detachment as there is thirst and hunger; there
is also the awareness of it all and a sense of
immense distance, as if the body and the mind and
all that happens to them were somewhere far out on
the horizon. I am like a cinema screen -- clear and
empty -- the pictures pass over it and disappear,
leaving it as clear and empty as before. In no way is
the screen affected by the pictures, nor are the
pictures affected by the screen. The screen
intercepts and reflects the pictures, it does not
shape them. It has nothing to do with the rolls of
films. These are as they are, lumps of destiny
(prarabdha), but not my destiny; the destinies of the
people on the screen.
Q: You do not mean to say that the people in a
picture have destinies. They belong to the story, the
249
K: Hogyan alaktja az ember a jellemt?
M: Olyannak ltva azt, amilyen, s szinte
megbocstssal. Ez az integrlis lts-rzs
csodkra kpes. Ez ahhoz hasonl, minz amikor egy
bronz arckpet ntesz; csak fmmel, vagy csak
tzzel a dolog nem fog menni; az ntformnak
sincs nmagban semmi haszna; a fmet fel kell
olvasztanod a tz hevnl, s bele kell ntened a
formba.
57. Az elmn tl nincs szenveds
Krdez: Ltom, fiad hzban lsz, vrod, hogy
felszolgljk az ebdet. s kvncsi lennk, hogy
vajon tudatossgod tartalma az enymhez hasonl,
vagy rszben klnbz, esetleg teljesen ms?
hsged s szomjsgod az enymhez hasonl,
trelmetlenl vrod, hogyfelszolgljk az telt, vagy
teljesen ms az elmellapotod?
Maharaj: A felsznen nem sok a klnbsg, de a
mlyben nagyon sok van. Te csak az rzkek s az
elme kzvettse rvn ismered nmagad. Annak
tartod magad, amit k sugallnak; nem lvn
kzvetlen tudsod nmagadrl, ideid vannak
csupn; amely mind silny, msodkzbl val,
szbeszd. Brmit gondolsz arrl, ami vagy, azt
igaznak tartod; a szoks, hogy nmagadat
szlehetnek s lerhatnak kpzeled, nagyon ers
benned.
Ltok, ahogy te, hallok, ahogy te, zlelek, ahogy te,
eszem, ahogy te. Szomjsgot, s hsget is rzek,
s remlem, hogy az telemet idben szolgljk fel.
Amikor kihezem, vagy megbetegszem, testem s
elmm legyengl. Mindezt nagyon vilgosan
szlelem, de valahogy nem vagyok benne, gy
rzem magam, mintha fltte lebegnk,
kzmbsen, s klnllan. De mg csak
kzmbsen, s klnllan sem. A kzmbssg
s klnllsg olyan, mint a szomjsg s hsg;
mindegyikben benne van a tudatossg is, valamint
egy vgtelen tvolsg rzs, mintha a testem s az
elmm, s minden, ami trtnik velk, valahol
messze a horizonton tl lenne. Olyan vagyok, akr
egy mozi vett vszna tiszta s res , amelyrl,
ha a kpek eltnnek, olyan tiszta s res marad,
mint eltte volt. A kpek semmilyen mdon nem
befolysoljk a vsznat, s a vszon sincs hatssal
a kpekre. A vszon a kpeket felfogja s
visszaveri, nem alaktja azokat. Semmi kze a
filmtekercsekhez. Azok olyanok, amilyenek, a sors
egy-egy darabja (prarabdha), de nem az n
sorsom; a vsznon lv emberek sors.
K: Nem mondod komolyan, hogy a filmben szerepl
embereknek sorsuk van. k a filmbeli trtnet
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
story is not theirs.
M: And what about you? Do you shape your life or
are you shaped by it?
Q: Yes, you are right. A life story unrolls itself of
which I am one of the actors. I have no being
outside it, as it has no being without me. I am merely
a character, not a person.
M: The character will become a person, when he
begins to shape his life instead of accepting it as it
comes, and identifying himself with it.
Q: When I ask a question and you answer, what
exactly happens?
M: The question and the answer -- both appear on
the screen. The lips move, the body speaks -- and
again the screen is clear and empty.
Q: When you say: clear and empty, what do you
mean?
M: I mean free of all contents. To myself I am
neither perceivable nor conceivable; there is nothing
I can point out and say: 'this I am'. You identify
yourself with everything so easily, I find it
impossible. The feeling: 'I am not this or that, nor is
anything mine' is so strong in me that as soon as a
thing or a thought appears, there comes at once the
sense 'this I am not'.
Q: Do you mean to say that you spend your time
repeating 'this I am not, that I am not'?
M: Of course not. I am merely verbalizing for your
sake. By the grace of my Guru I have realised once
and for good that I am neither object nor subject and
I do not need to remind myself all the time.
Q: I find it hard to grasp what exactly do you mean
by saying that you are neither the object nor the
subject. At this very moment, as we talk, am I not
the object of your experience, and you the subject?
M: Look, my thumb touches my forefinger. Both
touch and are touched. When my attention is on the
thumb, the thumb is the feeler and the forefinger --
the self. Shift the focus of attention and the
relationship is reversed. I find that somehow, by
shifting the focus of attention, I become the very
thing I look at and experience the kind of
consciousness it has; I become the inner witness of
the thing. I call this capacity of entering other focal
points of consciousness -- love; you may give it any
250
szerepli, amely nem az trtnetk.
M: s mi a helyzet veled? Te alaktod az letedet,
vagy az alakt tged?
K: Igen, igazad van. A magtl kibontakoz
lettrtnetnek n az egyik szereplje vagyok. Nincs
ltem azon kvl, mint ahogy annak sincs lte
nlklem. Szerepl vagyok csupn, nem szemly.
M: A szerepl szemlly vlik, ha alaktani kezdi az
lett, ahelyett, hogy gy fogadn el, ahogy jn, s
azonostan magt vele.
K: Amikor felteszek egy krdst, te pedig vlaszolsz,
mi trtnik pontosan?
M: A krds s a vlasz egyarnt a vsznon
jelennek meg. Az ajkak mozognak, a test beszl
s a kperny jra tiszta s res.
K: Amikor azt mondod: tiszta s res, mit rtesz
alatta?
M: Minden tartalomtl mentessget rtek ez alatt.
nmagam szmra n nem vagyok sem szlelhet,
sem elkpzelhet; semmi sincs, amire rmutathatok,
s azt mondhatom: ez n vagyok. Te oly knnyen
azonostod magad mindennel, n ezt lehetetlennek
tallom. Az rzs: n nem vagyok ez, vagy az, s
semmi sem az enym olyan ers bennem, hogy
amint egy dolog vagy egy gondolat felmerl, azonnal
megjelenik az ez nem n vagyok rzs is.
K: Azt akarod mondani, hogy azzal tltd az iddet,
hogy azt ismtelgeted, ez nem n vagyok, az nem
n vagyok?
M: Termszetesen nem. Csupn a te kedvedrt
foglalom szavakba. Gurum kegyelmbl egyszer s
mindenkorra felismertem, hogy nem vagyok sem
objektum, sem szubjektum, s nem kell llandan
emlkeztetnem magam.
K: Nehz megrtenem, hogy rted pontosan, hogy
nem vagy se objektum, se szubjektum. E
pillanatban, mikzben beszlgetnk, nem a
tapasztalsod objektuma vagyok, s te nem a
szubjektum vagy?
M: Nzd, a hvelykujjamat megrinti a mutatujjam.
Mindkett rint, s rintett. Mikor figyelmem a
hvelykujjamra irnyul, a hvelykujj a tapint, s a
mutatujj az n. helyezd t a figyelem fkuszt, s
a kapcsolat megfordul. gy tallom, hogy valami
mdon a figyelem fkusznak thelyezsvel az
ltalam figyelt dologg vlok, s tapasztalom azt a
fajta tudatossgot, ami neki van; az illet dolog
bels tanjv vlok. A msik tudatossgi
fkuszpontba val lpsnek ezt a kpessgt gy
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
name you like. Love says: 'I am everything'. Wisdom
says: 'I am nothing' Between the two my life flows.
Since at any point of time and space I can be both
the subject and the object of experience, I express it
by saying that I am both, and neither, and beyond
both.
Q: You make all these extraordinary statements
about yourself. What makes you say those things?
What do you mean by saying that you are beyond
space and time?
M: You ask and the answer comes. I watch myself --
I watch the answer and see no contradiction. It is
clear to me that I am telling you the truth. It is all
very simple. Only you must trust me that I mean
what I say, that I am quite serious. As I told you
already, my Guru showed me my true nature -- and
the true nature of the world. Having realised that I
am one with, and yet beyond the world, I became
free from all desire and fear. I did not reason out that
I should be free -- I found myself free --
unexpectedly, without the least effort. This freedom
from desire and fear remained with me since then.
Another thing I noticed was that I do not need to
make an effort; the deed follows the thought, without
delay and friction. I have also found that thoughts
become self-fulfilling; things would fall in place
smoothly and rightly. The main change was in the
mind; it became motionless and silent, responding
quickly, but not perpetuating the response.
Spontaneity became a way of life, the real became
natural and the natural became real. And above all,
infinite affection, love, dark and quiet, radiating in all
directions, embracing all, making all interesting and
beautiful, significant and auspicious.
Q: We are told that various Yogic powers arise
spontaneously in a man who has realised his own
true being. What is your experience in these
matters?
M: Man's fivefold body (physical etc.) has potential
powers beyond our wildest dreams. Not only is the
entire universe reflected in man, but also the power
to control the universe is waiting to be used by him.
The wise man is not anxious to use such powers,
except when the situation calls for them. He finds
the abilities and skills of the human personality quite
adequate for the business of daily living. Some of
the powers can be developed by specialised
training, but the man who flaunts such powers is still
in bondage. The wise man counts nothing as his
own. When at some time and place some miracle is
251
hvom szeretet; te olyan nevet adsz neki, amilyet
akarsz. A szeretet azt mondja: n vagyok minden.
A blcsessg azt mondja: semmi nem vagyok. A
kett kztt ramlik az letem. Mivel az id s tr
brmelyik pontjn lehetek akr a szubjektumaknt,
akr az objektumaknt a tapasztalsnak, ezt gy
fejezem ki, hogy azt, mondom, minden vagyok, s
semmi, s mindkettn tli.
K: Rendkvli dolgokat lltasz nmagadrl. Mirt
mondasz ilyeneket? Hogyan rted, mikor azt
mondod, tl vagy tren s idn?
M: Krdezel, s megrkezik a vlasz. Figyelem
nmagam figyelem a vlaszt, s nem ltok
ellentmondst. Vilgos szmomra, hogy az
igazsgot mondom neked. Mindez nagyon
egyszer. Hidd csak el, hogy gy rtem, ahogy
mondom, hogy teljesen komoly vagyok. Ahogy azt
mondtam mr neked, Gurum megmutatta nekem
valdi termszetemet s a vilg valdi
termszett. Felismervn, hogy egy vagyok a
vilggal, s mgis azon tl vagyok, minden vgytl
s flelemtl megszabadultam. Nem kvetkeztets,
hogy szabad kell, hogy legyek szabadnak lttam
magam vratlanul, a legkisebb erfeszts nlkl.
Ez a vgytl s a flelemtl val szabadsg velem
maradt azta is. A msik, amit szrevettem, hogy
nem kell erfesztst tennem; a tett kslekeds, s
ellenlls nlkl kveti a gondolatot. Azt is
felfedeztem, hogy gondolataim nbeteljestkk
vltak; a dolgok simn, s a megfelel mdon a
helykre kerltek. A legfontosabb vltozs az
elmben kvetkezett be; mozdulatlan s csendes
lett, gyorsan reagl, de nem llandstja a reaglst.
A spontaneits letforma lett, a valsg
termszetess, s a termszetes valsgg vlt. s
legfkpp, vgtelen gyengdsg, amely szeret,
stt s csendes, amely minden irnyba sugrzik,
mindent tlel, mindent rdekess, szpp,
kifejezsteljess s gretess tesz.
K: gy hallottuk, hogy abban az emberben, aki
felismerte sajt valdi ltt klnfle, spontn
mdon Yoga erk tmadnak. Mi a te tapasztalatod
ezekben a krdsekben?
M: Az ember t rszbl (fizikai, stb.) ll teste olyan
potencilis erkkel rendelkezik, amely legvadabb
lmainkat is fellmlja. Nem csak a teljes univerzum
tkrzdik az emberben, hanem az univerzumot
irnyt er is arra vr, hogy ltala hasznltasson. A
tuds ember nem svrog az ilyen erk hasznlata
utn, kivve, amikor a szituci rtk kilt. az
emberi szemlyisg kpessgeit s kszsgeit
teljesen elegendnek tartja a mindennapok
dolgaihoz. Kifejleszthetk bizonyos erk specilis
trningekkel, de aki ilyen erkkel krkedik, mg
ktelkek rabja. A tuds ember semmit nem tekint
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
attributed to some person, he will not establish any
causal link between events and people, nor will he
allow any conclusions to be drawn. All happened as
it happened because it had to happen everything
happens as it does, because the universe is as it is.
Q: The universe does not seem a happy place to
live in. Why is there so much suffering?
M: Pain is physical; suffering is mental. Beyond the
mind there is no suffering. Pain is merely a signal
that the body is in danger and requires attention.
Similarly, suffering warns us that the structure of
memories and habits, which we call the person
(vyakti), is threatened by loss or change. Pain is
essential for the survival of the body, but none
compels you to suffer. Suffering is due entirely to
clinging or resisting; it is a sign of our unwillingness
to move on, to flow with life.
As a sane life is free of pain, so is a saintly life free
from suffering.
Q: Nobody has suffered more than saints.
M: Did they tell you, or do you say so on your own?
The essence of saintliness is total acceptance of the
present moment, harmony with things as they
happen. A saint does not want things to be different
from what they are; he knows that, considering all
factors, they are unavoidable. He is friendly with the
inevitable and, therefore, does not suffer. Pain he
may know, but it does not shatter him. If he can, he
does the needful to restore the lost balance -- or he
lets things take their course.
Q: He may die.
M: So what? What does he gain by living on and
what does he lose by dying? What was born, must
die; what was never born cannot die. It all depends
on what he takes himself to be.
Q: Imagine you fall mortally ill. Would you not regret
and resent?
M: But I am dead already, or, rather, neither alive
nor dead. You see my body behaving the habitual
way and draw your own conclusions. You will not
admit that your conclusions bind nobody but you. Do
see that the image you have of me may be
altogether wrong. Your image of yourself is wrong
252
sajtjnak. Amikor valamilyen csods kpessg
ember tnik fel, idnknt s helyenknt, nem fog
ltesteni semmilyen esemnyek s emberek kztti
oksgi kapcsolatot, s semmilyen kvetkeztets
levonshoz sem fog hozzjrulni. Mindennek gy
kell trtnnie, ahogy trtnik, mert az univerzum az,
ami.
K: Az univerzum nem tnik olyan helynek, ahol
boldogan lehet lni. Mirt van benne olyan sok
szenveds?
M: A fjdalom fizikai; a szenveds mentlis. Az
elmn tl nincs szenveds. A fjdalom csupn egy
jel, hogy a test veszlyben van, s figyelmet kvetel.
Hasonlkppen, szenveds figyelmeztet bennnket,
hogy az emlkek s szoksok struktrjt, amit
szemlynek neveznk (vyakti), vesztesg vagy
vltozs fenyegeti. A fjdalom a test tllshez
nlklzhetetlen, de tged egyltaln nem
knyszert szenvedsre. Szenveds kizrlag
ragaszkods vagy ellenlls miatt kvetkezik be;
annak jele, hogy hzdozunk a tovbb haladstl,
az lettel val egytt ramlstl.
Ahogy az egszsges let fjdalomtl mentes, gy a
jmbor let szenvedstl mentes.
K: Senki nem szenvedett tbbet a szenteknl.
M: Ezt k mondtk neked, vagy a sajt
vlemnyedet hangoztatod? A szentsg lnyege a
jelen pillanat totlis elfogadsa, a harmnia a
dolgokkal, ahogyan azok megtrtnnek. Egy szent
nem akarja, hogy a dolgok msok legyenek, mint
amik; tudja, hogy minden tnyezt tekintetbe vve,
azok elkerlhetetlenek. Megbartkozott az
elkerlhetetlennel, s, kvetkezskppen, nem
szenved. A fjdalmat lehet, hogy ismerik, de az nem
tri ket ssze. Ha tudja, megteszi, ami elvesztett
egyenslya visszanyershez szksges vagy
szabad folyst enged a dolgoknak.
K: Lehet, hogy meghal.
M: s akkor mi van? Mit nyer, ha letben marad, s
mit veszt, ha meghal? Ami megszletett, annak
meghalnia is kell; ami soha nem szletett, nem tud
meghalni. Ez azon mlik, hogy mit tart nmaga
ltrl.
K: Kpzeld el, hogy hallosan beteg lettl. Nem
lennel szomor s srtdtt?
M: De n mr halott vagyok, vagy inkbb se eleven,
se holt. Te olyannak ltod a testemet, mint amely a
szoksos mdon viselkedik, s levonod a magad
kvetkeztseit. Nem ltod be, hogy kvetkeztetseid
senki mshoz nem ktdnek, csak hozzd. Vedd
szre, hogy a rlam alkotott kped lehet, hogy
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
too, but that is your problem. But you need not
create problems for me and then ask me to solve
them. I am neither creating problems nor solving
them.
58. Perfection, Destiny of All
Questioner: When asked about the means for self-
realisation, you invariably stress the importance of
the mind dwelling on the sense 'I am'. Where is the
causal factor? Why should this particular thought
result in self-realisation? How does the
contemplation of 'I am' affect me?
Maharaj: The very fact of observation alters the
observer and the observed. After all, what prevents
the insight into one's true nature is the weakness
and obtuseness of the mind and its tendency to skip
the subtle and focus on the gross only. When you
follow my advice and try to keep your mind on the
notion of 'I am' only, you become fully aware of your
mind and its vagaries. Awareness, being lucid
harmony (sattva) in action, dissolves dullness and
quietens the restlessness of the mind and gently, but
steadily changes its very substance. This change
need not be spectacular; it may be hardly
noticeable; yet it is a deep and fundamental shift
from darkness to light, from inadvertence to
awareness.
Q: Must it be the 'I am' formula? Will not any other
sentence do? If I concentrate on 'there is a table',
will it not serve the same purpose?
M: As an exercise in concentration -- yes. But it will
not take you beyond the idea of a table. You are not
interested in tables, you want to know yourself. For
this keep steadily in the focus of consciousness the
only clue you have: your certainty of being. Be with
it, play with it, ponder over it, delve deeply into it, till
the shell of ignorance breaks open and you emerge
into the realm of reality.
Q: Is there any causal link between my focussing
the 'I am' and the breaking of the shell?
M: The urge to find oneself is a sign that you are
getting ready. The impulse always comes from
within. Unless your time has come, you will have
neither the desire nor the strength to go for self-
enquiry whole-heartedly.
Q: Is not the grace of the Guru responsible for the
desire and its fulfilment? Is not the Guru's radiant
253
teljesen rossz. Az nmagadrl alkotott kp szintn
rossz, de ez a te problmd. De nincs r szksg,
hogy problmkat teremts a szmomra, hogy utna
arra krj, oldjam meg ket. n problmkat sem
teremtek, s nem is oldom meg ket.
58. Tkleteseds a sorsa mindennek
Krdez: Amikor az nmegvalsts eszkzeirl
krdeznek, mindig az elme n vagyok rzsben
val idzsnek fontossgt hangslyozod. Mi az
okozati tnyz? Mirt kell ennek a szokatlan
gondolatnak nmegvalstst eredmnyeznie?
Hogyan hat rm az n vagyok feletti kontemplci?
Maharaj: A megfigyelsnek pusztn a tnye
megvltoztatja a megfigyelt s a megfigyels
trgyt. Vgs soron az ember valdi termszetbe
val bepillantst az elme gyengesge, tompasga,
s arra val hajlamossga akadlyozza, hogy a
finom mellzsvel csak a durvra fkuszljon. Ha a
tancsomat kvetve megprblod elmdet kizrlag
az n vagyok kpzetn tartani, teljesen tudatoss
teszed elmdet, s annak kalandozst. A
tudatossg a cselekvs ragyog harmnija (sattva)
lvn, eloszlatja elme tompasgt, lecsendesti
nyugtalansgt, s szelden, de biztosan talaktja
annak teljes szubsztancijt. Az talakulsnak nem
kell ltvnyosnak lennie; lehet alig szrevehet, s
mgis mly, s alapvet elmozduls a sttsgtl a
fny fel, a tvedstl a tudatossg fel.
K: Muszly, hogy ez az n vagyok formula legyen?
Nem mkdne ugyangy brmilyen ms mondat?
Ha arra koncentrlok, hogy ez egy tbla, az nem
ugyanazt a clt szolglja?
M: Koncentrcis gyakorlatknt igen. De ltala
nem fogsz tovbb jutni a tbla idejn. Tged nem a
tblk irnt rdekldsz, te nmagadat akarod
megismerni. Ezrt tartsd llhatatosan a tudatossg
fkuszban az egyetlen kulcsot, amivel rendelkezel:
a ltben val bizonyossgodat. Lgy vele, jtssz
vele, elmlkedj rajta, ss le a mlyre, amg a
tudatlansg kagylhja fel nem trik, s te be nem
lpsz a valsg birodalmba.
K: Van valamilyen oksgi kapcsolat az n vagyok-
ra fkuszls, s a kagylhj feltrse kztt?
M: nmagad megtallsnak a ksztetse a jel,
hogy kszen llsz. Az impulzus mindig bellrl jn.
Hacsak el nem jtt az ideje, soha nem lesz sem
vgyad, sem erd, hogy az nkutatst teljes
odaadssal vgezd.
K: Nem a Guru kegyelme felels a vgyrt s annak
beteljestsrt? Nem a Guru sugrz arca a
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
face the bait on which we are caught and pulled out
of this mire of sorrow?
M: It is the Inner Guru (sadguru) who takes you to
the Outer Guru, as a mother takes her child to a
teacher. Trust and obey your Guru, for he is the
messenger of your Real Self.
Q: How do I find a Guru whom I can trust?
M: Your own heart will tell you. There is no difficulty
in finding a Guru, because the Guru is in search of
you. The Guru is always ready; you are not ready.
You have to be ready to learn; or you may meet your
Guru and waste your chance by sheer
inattentiveness and obstinacy. Take my example;
there was nothing in me of much promise, but when
I met my Guru, I listened, trusted and obeyed.
Q: Must I not examine the teacher before I put
myself entirely into his hands?
M: By all means examine. But what can you find
out? Only as he appears to you on your own level.
Q: I shall watch whether he is consistent, whether
there is harmony between his life and his teaching.
M: You may find plenty of disharmony -- so what? It
proves nothing. Only motives matter. How will you
know his motives?
Q: I should at least expect him to be a man of self-
control who lives a righteous life.
M: Such you will find many -- and of no use to you.
A Guru can show the way back home, to your real
self. What has this to do with the character, or
temperament of the person he appears to be? Does
he not clearly tell you that he is not the person? The
only way you can judge is by the change in yourself
when you are in his company. If you feel more at
peace and happy, if you understand yourself with
more than usual clarity and depth, it means you
have met the right man. Take your time, but once
you have made up your mind to trust him, trust him
absolutely and follow every instruction fully and
faithfully. It does not matter much if you do not
accept him as your Guru and are satisfied with his
company only. Satsang alone can also take you to
your goal, provided it is unmixed and undisturbed.
But once you accept somebody as your Guru, listen,
remember and obey. Half-heartedness is a serious
drawback and the cause of much self-created
sorrow. The mistake is never the Guru's; it is always
the obtuseness and cussedness of the discipline
that is at fault.
254
csbts, amely megragad bennnket, s kihz a
szomorsg mocsarbl?
M: A Bels Guru (sadguru) az, aki elvisz tged a
Kls Guruhoz, mint ahogy az anya viszi gyermekt
a tanthoz. Higgy s engedelmeskedj Gurudnak,
mert a hrnke a te Valdi nednek.
K: Hogyan tallok olyan Gurut, akinek hihetek?
M: A sajt szved fogja megmondani. Nem nehz
rtallni a Gurura, mivel a Guru is keres tged. A
Guru llandan kszen ll, te nem vagy kszen.
Kszen kell llnod a tanulsra; vagy elfordulhat,
hogy tallkozol a Guruddal, s figyelmetlensgbl,
s mer nfejsgbl elvesztegeted az eslyedet.
Vegyk a sajt pldmat; nem volt bennem semmi
gretes, de mikor tallkoztam a Gurummal
hallgattam r, bztam benne, s kvettem
utastsait.
K: Nem kell leellenriznem a tantt, mieltt teljesen
a kezbe tennm magam?
M: Persze, vizsgld meg. De min tudod rajtacspni?
Csak ahogy megjelenik neked a te sajt szinteden.
K: Megvizsglnm, hogy vajon konzisztens-e, vajon
harmnia van-e lete s tantsa kztt?
M: Lehet, hogy megfelelnek tallod a harmnit
s akkor mi van? Nem bizonyt semmit. Csak az
idtkok szmtanak. Honnan ismerhetnd az
indtkait?
K: Legalbb annyit elvrnk tle, hogy nuralommal
rendelkez, ernyes letet l ember legyen.
M: Sok ilyet tallsz s semmi hasznuk szmodra.
A Guru meg tudja mutatni a hazafel, a valdi
nedbe vezet utat. Mi kze ennek a jellemhez,
vagy temperamentumhoz azon szemlynek,
akiknt megjelenik. Nem kzlte veled vilgosan,
hogy nem a szemly? Az egyetlen md, amely
alapjn megtlheted, a benned bekvetkez
vltozs, mikzben a trsasgban tartzkodsz. Ha
tbb bkt s boldogsgot rzel, ha a szoksosnl
vilgosabban s mlyebben rted magad, azt jelenti,
hogy a megfelel emberrel tallkoztl. Ne siesd el,
de mikor gy dntttl, hogy hiszel benne, higgy
benne felttlenl, s kvesd minden utastst teljes
mrtkben, s hsgesen. Nem szmt sokat, ha
nem fogadod el t Gurudknt, s megelgszel a
puszta trsasgval. A satsang nmagban is
elvezethet clodhoz, feltve, hogy az fenntarts
nlkli, s nyugodt. De mihelyt valakit Gurudknt
fogadsz el, hallgass, emlkezz, s engedelmeskedj.
A flszv slyos htrny, s sok nmagad teremtette
szomorsg oka. A hiba soha nem a Guru, hanem
mindig a tantvny korltoltsgnak s
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: Does the Guru then dismiss, or disqualify a
disciple?
M: He would not be a Guru if he did. He bides his
time and waits till the disciple, chastened and
sobered, comes back to him in a more receptive
mood.
Q: What is the motive? Why does the Guru take so
much trouble?
M: Sorrow and the ending of sorrow. He sees
people suffering in their dreams and he wants them
to wake up. Love is intolerant of pain and suffering.
The patience of a Guru has no limits and, therefore,
it cannot be defeated. The Guru never fails.
Q: Is my first Guru also my last, or do I have to pass
from Guru to Guru?
M: The entire universe is your Guru. You learn from
everything, if you are alert and intelligent. Were your
mind clear and your heart clean, you would learn
from every passer-by. It is because you are indolent
or restless, that your inner Self manifests as the
outer Guru and makes you trust him and obey.
Q: Is a Guru inevitable?
M: It is like asking 'Is a mother inevitable?' To rise in
consciousness from one dimension to another, you
need help. The help may not always be in the shape
of a human person, it may be a subtle presence, or
a spark of intuition, but help must come. The inner
Self is watching and waiting for the son to return to
his father. At the right time he arranges everything
affectionately and effectively. Where a messenger is
needed, or a guide, he sends the Guru to do the
needful.
Q: There is one thing I cannot grasp. You speak of
the inner self as wise and good and beautiful and in
every way perfect, and of the person as mere
reflection without a being of its own. On the other
hand you take so much trouble in helping the person
to realise itself. If the person is so unimportant, why
be so concerned with its welfare? Who cares for a
shadow?
M: You have brought in duality where there is none.
There is the body and there is the Self. Between
them is the mind, in which the Self is reflected as 'I
am'. Because of the imperfections of the mind, its
crudity and restlessness, lack of discernment and
insight, it takes itself to be the body, not the Self. All
255
megtalkodottsgnak rhat fel, mivel eltveszti a
nyomot.
K: A Guru elbocsjtja, vagy diszkvalifiklja a
tantvnyt?
M: Nem Guru lenne, ha megtenn. Kivrja az idejt,
s vr, amg a tantvny megszeldl, s
kijzanodik, s egy sokkal fogkonyabb
lelkillapotban tr vissza hozz.
K: Mi az idtka? Mirt vesz magra a Guru olyan
sok gondot?
M: A szomorsg, s a szomorsg befejezse.
Ltja az lmukban szenved embereket, s fel
akarja ket breszteni. A szeretet kptelen elviselni
a fjdalmat s a szenvedst. A Guru trelmnek
nincs hatra, ezrt nem tud kudarcot vallani. A Guru
sohasem bukik el.
K: Az els Gurum az utols is, vagy Gurutl Guruig
kell vndorolnom?
M: Az egsz univerzum a Gurud. Mindenbl tanulsz,
ha ber, s intelligens vagy. Ha elmd vilgos, s
szved tiszta lenne, akkor minden jrkeltl
tanulhatnl. De mivel hanyag vagy, illetve nyugtalan,
bels ned kls Guruknt manifesztldik, s arra
ksztet, hogy higgy benne, s engedelmeskedj neki.
K: Szksgszer a Guru?
M: Ez ppen olyan, mintha azt krdeznd, hogy
szksgszer-e az anya? A tudatossg egyik
dimenzijbl a msikba emelkedshez segtsgre
van szksged. A segtsg nem felttlenl mindig
emberi szemly alakjban rkezik, lehet egy finom
jelenlt, vagy az intuci egy szikrja, de jnnie kell
segtsgnek. A bels n figyel, s vr a fira, hogy
visszatrjen atyjhoz. A megfelel idben mindent
szeretetteljesen, s eredmnyesen elrendez. Ahol
hrnkre, vagy kalauzra van szksg, elkldi a
Gurut, hogy megtegye, ami szksges.
K: Van egy dolog, amit nem tudok felfogni. gy
beszlsz a bels nrl, mint ami blcs, j, szp, s
mindenfle mdon tkletes, s a szemlyrl gy,
mint egy sajt lt nlkli, puszta tkrkprl.
Msfell oly sokat fradozol, hogy segts a
szemlynek, hogy realizlja nmagt. Ha a szemly
annyira jelentktelen, mirt foglalkozol annyit a
jltvel? Ki trdik egy rnykkal?
M: Ott vezetted be a dualitst, ahol az nincs. Van a
test, s van az n. Kzttk ott van az elme,
amelyben az n, mint n vagyok tkrzdik. Az
elme tkletlensge, retlensge, nyugtalansga,
tlkpessg- s intucibeli hinya arra vezette,
hogy a test legyen, s ne az n. Mindssze az elme
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
that is needed is to purify the mind so that it can
realise its identity with the Self. When the mind
merges in the Self, the body presents no problems.
It remains what it is, an instrument of cognition and
action, the tool and the expression of the creative
fire within: The ultimate value of the body is that it
serves to discover the cosmic body, which is the
universe in its entirety. As you realise yourself in
manifestation, you keep on discovering that you are
ever more than what you have imagined.
megtiszttsra van szksg, hogy az fel tudja
ismerni az nnel val azonossgt. Amikor az elme
belemerl az nbe, a test nem jelent problmt. A
test az marad, ami, egy eszkze a megismersnek
s a cselekvsnek, a bels tz szerszma s
kifejezse: a test vgs rtke az, hogy a kozmikus
test felfedezst szolglja, ami nem ms, mint az
univerzum, a maga teljes egszben. Amint
felismered magad a megnyilvnulsban, felfedezed,
hogy mindig is tbb voltl, mint amit valaha is
elkpzeltl.

Q: Is there no end to self-discovery? K: Sosincs vge az n-felfedezsnek?

M: As there is no beginning, there is no end. But M: Ahogyan nincs kezdete, gy vge sincs. De amit
what I have discovered by the grace of my Guru is: I Gurum kegyelmbl felfedeztem: semmi olyan nem
am nothing that can be pointed at. I am neither a vagyok, amire r lehet mutatni. Nem vagyok sem
'this' nor a 'that'. This holds absolutely. ez, sem az. Ez abszolt rvnyes igazsg.

Q: Then, where comes in the never-ending K: Hol vlik akkor a soha vget nem r felfedezs
discovery, the endless transcending oneself into az ember j dimenzikba val vgtelen
new dimensions? transzcendlsv?

M: All this belongs to the realm of manifestation; it is M: Mindez a megnyilvnult birodalmra tartozik; az
in the very structure of the universe, that the higher univerzum valsgos struktrjban benne van,
can be had only through the freedom from the lower. hogy a magasabb csak az alacsonyabbtl kapott
szabadsg rvn ltezhet.

Q: What is lower and what is higher? K: Mi alacsonyabb, s mi magasabb?

M: Look at it in terms of awareness. Wider and M: Tekintsd erre a tudatossg szempontjbl. A

deeper consciousness is higher. All that lives, works
for protecting, perpetuating and expanding
consciousness. This is the world's sole meaning and
purpose. It is the very essence of Yoga -- ever
raising the level of consciousness, discovery of new
dimensions, with their properties, qualities and
powers. In that sense the entire universe becomes a
school of Yoga (yogakshetra).
tgabb s mlyebb tudatossg a magasabb.
Minden, ami l, a tudatossg vdelmezse,
fenntartsa s fejlesztse rdekben dolgozik. Ez a
vilg egyetlen rtelme s clja. A Yoga valsgos
lnyege a tudatossg szintjnek lland emelse,
j dimenzik, s azok tulajdonsgai, minsgei s
kpessgei felfedezse. Ebben az rtelemben az
egsz univerzum a Yoga iskoljv vlik
(yogakshetra).

Q: Is perfection the destiny of all human beings? K: Tkleteseds a sorsa minden emberi lnynek?

M: Of all living beings -- ultimately. The possibility
becomes a certainty when the notion of
enlightenment appears in the mind. Once a living
being has heard and understood that deliverance is
within his reach, he will never forget, for it is the first
message from within. It will take roots and grow and
in due course take the blessed shape of the Guru.
M: Minden llnynek vgs soron. A lehetsg
akkor vlik bizonyossgg, mikor a megvilgosods
fogalma megjelenik az elmben. Amint egy llny
meghallja s megrti, hogy a megszabaduls
elrhet szmra, soha el nem felejti, mert ez az
els bellrl jv zenet. Az zenet ezutn gykeret
ereszt, nvekszik, s a kell idben fellti a Guru
ldott alakjt.

Q: So all we are concerned with is the redemption of K: Teht mindannyiunkra vonatkozik az elme
the mind? megvltsa?

M: What else? The mind goes astray, the mind M: Mi ms? Az elme esik bnbe, az elme tr haza.
returns home. Even the word 'astray' is not proper. De mg a bn sem helyes kifejezs. Az elmnek
The mind must know itself in every mood. Nothing is minden lelkillapotban fel kell ismernie nmagt.
a mistake unless repeated. Semmi nem hiba, feltve, hogy nem ismtldik meg.

256
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
59. Desire and Fear: Self-centred States
Questioner: I would like to go again into the
question of pleasure and pain, desire and fear. I
understand fear which is memory and anticipation of
pain. It is essential for the preservation of the
organism and its living pattern. Needs, when felt, are
painful and their anticipation is full of fear; we are
rightly afraid of not being able to meet our basic
needs. The relief experienced when a need is met,
or an anxiety allayed is entirely due to the ending of
pain. We may give it positive names like pleasure, or
joy, or happiness, but essentially it is relief from
pain. It is this fear of pain that holds together our
social, economic and political institutions.
What puzzles me is that we derive pleasure from
things and states of mind, which have nothing to do
with survival. On the contrary, our pleasures are
usually destructive. They damage or destroy the
object, the instrument and also the subject of
pleasure. Otherwise, pleasure and pursuit of
pleasure would be no problem. This brings me to the
core of my question: why is pleasure destructive?
Why, in spite of its destructiveness, is it wanted?
I may add, I do not have in mind the pleasure-pain
pattern by which nature compels us to go her way. I
think of the man-made pleasures, both sensory and
subtle, ranging from the grossest, like overeating, to
the most refined. Addiction to pleasure, at whatever
cost, is so universal that there must be something
significant at the root of it.
Of course, not every activity of man must be
utilitarian, designed to meet a need. Play, for
example, is natural and man is the most playful
animal in existence. Play fulfils the need for self-
discovery and self-development. But even on his
play man becomes destructive of nature, others and
himself.
Maharaj: In short, you do not object to pleasure, but
only to its price in pain and sorrow.
Q: If reality itself is bliss, then pleasure in some way
must be related to it.
M: Let us not proceed by verbal logic. The bliss of
reality does not exclude suffering. Besides, you
know only pleasure, not the bliss of pure being. So
let us examine pleasure at its own level.
257
59. Vgyakozs s flelem: n-kzpont
llapotok
Krdez: Szeretnk visszatrni az rm s
szenveds, vgy s flelem krdsre. Megrtem a
flelmet, amely fjdalomra val emlkezs, illetve
annak elreltsa. Ez elengedhetetlen az
organizmus s letfenntartsi rendszernek a
megvdshez. A nlklzs, ha megrint,
fjdalmas dolog, s vrhat bekvetkezse is
flelmetes; jogos a flelmnk, ha nem vagyunk
kpesek kielgteni alapvet szksgleteinket. A
megnyugvst akkor tapasztaljuk, amikor a
szksglet kielgl, vagy a a fjdalom megszntvel
szorongs teljesen eloszlik. Nevezhetjk pozitv
neveken, gymint rm, lvezet, vagy boldogsg, de
lnyegben a fjdalomtl val megszabadulsrl
van sz. A fjdalomtl val flelem az, ami
sszetartja a trsadalmi, gazdasgi s politikai
intzmnyeket.
Ami elgondolkoztat az, hogy rmnket leljk az
elme olyan dolgaiban s llapotaiban, amelyeknek
semmi kze a tllshez. Visszs dolog, hogy
lvezeteink tbbnyire destruktvak. Krostjk, vagy
elpuszttjk az lvezet objektumt, eszkzt, de mg
szubjektumt is. Klnben az lvezet, s az
lvezetre val trekvs nem lenne problma. Ez
vezet el a krdsem lnyeghez: mirt destruktv az
rm? Rombol hatsa ellenre mirt kvnjuk azt?
Hozztehetem, elmm nem tartalmaz olyan rm-
fjdalom mintt, amely rvn a termszet az tjra
knyszert bennnket. A mestersges rmkre
gondolok, amelyek mindegyike rzki s ravasz,
kezdve a legdurvbbtl, mint a tlevs, a
legkifinomultabbig. A brmi ron val fggsg az
lvezet irnt olyan ltalnos, hogy muszj, hogy
valamilyen jelents oka legyen.
Termszetesen, nem minden emberi cselekedetnek
kell hasznosnak, szksgletet kielgt mdon
tervezettnek lennie. Jtszani pldul termszetes
dolog, s az ember a legjtkosabb llat a vilgon.
A jtk az nfelfedezs s az nfejleszts
szksglett elgti ki. De mg a jtkos ember is
vlhat a termszet, msok, s sajt maga rtalmra.
Maharaj: Egyszval, az lvezetnek te nem
objektuma vagy, hanem fjdalomban s
szomorsgban mrhet ra csupn.
K: Ha a valsg maga a boldogsg, akkor az
rmnek bizonyos szempontbl hozz kell
kapcsoldnia.
M: Hagyjuk a verblis logikt. A valsg boldogsga
nem zrja ki a szenvedst. Ezenkvl, te csak az
rmt ismered, nem a tiszta lt boldogsgt.
gyhogy vizsgljuk az rmt a sajt szintjn.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
If you look at yourself in your moments of pleasure
or pain, you will invariably find that it is not the thing
in itself that is pleasant or painful, but the situation of
which it is a part. Pleasure lies in the relationship
between the enjoyer and the enjoyed. And the
essence of it is acceptance. Whatever may be the
situation, if it is acceptable, it is pleasant. If it is not
acceptable, it is painful. What makes it acceptable is
not important; the cause may be physical, or
psychological, or untraceable; acceptance is the
decisive factor. Obversely, suffering is due to non-
acceptance.
Q: Pain is not acceptable.
M: Why not? Did you ever try? Do try and you will
find in pain a joy which pleasure cannot yield, for the
simple reason that acceptance of pain takes you
much deeper than pleasure does. The personal self
by its very nature is constantly pursuing pleasure
and avoiding pain. The ending of this pattern is the
ending of the self. The ending of the self with its
desires and fears enables you to return to your real
nature, the source of all happiness and peace. The
perennial desire for pleasure is the reflection of the
timeless harmony within. It is an observable fact that
one becomes self-conscious only when caught in
the conflict between pleasure and pain, which
demands choice and decision. It is this clash
between desire and fear that causes anger, which is
the great destroyer of sanity in life. When pain is
accepted for what it is, a lesson and a warning, and
deeply looked into and heeded, the separation
between pain and pleasure breaks down, both
become experience -- painful when resisted, joyful
when accepted.
Q: Do you advise shunning pleasure and pursuing
pain?
M: No, nor pursuing pleasure and shunning pain.
Accept both as they come, enjoy both while they
last, let them go, as they must.
Q: How can I possibly enjoy pain? Physical pain
calls for action.
M: Of course. And so does Mental. The bliss is in
the awareness of it, in not shrinking, or in any way
turning away from it. All happiness comes from
awareness. The more we are conscious, the deeper
the joy. Acceptance of pain, non-resistance, courage
and endurance -- these open deep and perennial
sources of real happiness, true bliss.
258
Ha az rm vagy fjdalom pillanataidban vizsglod
magad, mindig gy fogod tallni, hogy nem
nmagban a dolog lvezetes, vagy fjdalmas,
hanem a szituci, amelynek az rsze. Az rm az
lvez s az lvezett kztti relciban ll. s a
lnyege az elfogads. Brmilyen szitucirl legyen
sz, ha elfogadhat, akkor lvezetes. Ha nem
elfogadhat, akkor fjdalmas. Hogy mi teszi
elfogadhatv, az nem fontos; lehet az oka fizikai,
vagy pszicholgiai, vagy kinyomozhatatlan; az
elfogads a dnt tnyez. Ezzel szemben
szenveds a nem-elfogads miatt van.
K: A fjdalom nem elfogadhat.
M: Mirt nem? Megprbltad valaha is elfogadni?
Prbld meg, s a fjdalomban olyan rmt fogsz
tallni, amelyet az lvezet nem kpes nyjtani, azon
egyszer oknl fogva, hogy a fjdalom elfogadsa
sokkal mlyebbre visz tged, mint az lvezet. A
szemlyes n, valsgos termszettl vezrelve,
llandan hajszolja az lvezetet, s kerli a
fjdalmat. Ha ez a minta vgetr, az n r vget. Ha
az n, vele egytt sszes vgya s flelme vget r,
lehetv vlik valdi termszetedhez, a boldogsg
s bke forrshoz val visszatrsed. Az lvezet
irnti lland vgy a bels idtlen harmnia
visszatkrzdse. Megfigyelhet tny, hogy az
ember csak akkor vlik ntudatoss, mikor lvezet
s fjdalom kzti vlasztst s dntst ignyl
konfliktusba bonyoldik. Ez a vgy s flelem kztti
ellentt okozza a haragot, ami az let
sszersgnek a nagy puszttja. Mikor elfogadod
a fjdalmat elfogadsra kerl, minthogy lecke s
figyelmeztets, s mlyen megvizsglod s
megfigyeled, a fjdalom s az lvezet elklnlse
megsznik, mindkett tapasztalatt vlik
fjdalmass, mikor ellenllsz, lvezetess, mikor
elfogadsz.
K: Az a javaslatod, hogy kerljem az lvezetet, s
trekedjek a fjdalomra?
M: Nem, az lvezetek hajszolst, s a fjdalom
kerlst sem. Fogadd el mindkettt, ha jnnek,
lvezd mindkettt, amg tartanak, s engedd el ket,
amikor kell.
K: Hogyan lehetsges a fjdalmat lveznem? A
fizikai fjdalom cselekvsre sarkall.
M: Termszetesen. s a mentlis fjdalom is. A
boldogsg a tudatostsban van, nem a
meghtrlsban, vagy hogy brmilyen mdon
elfordulsz tle. Minden boldogsg a tudatossgbl
ered. Minl tudatosabbak vagyunk, annl mlyebb
az lvezet. A fjdalom elfogadsa, nem-ellenlls,
btorsg s kitarts ezek a valdi boldogsg, az
igazi dvssg nylt, mly, s lland forrsai.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: Why should pain be more effective than
pleasure?
M: Pleasure is readily accepted, while all the powers
of the self reject pain. As the acceptance of pain is
the denial of the self, and the self stands in the way
of true happiness, the wholehearted acceptance of
pain releases the springs of happiness.
Q: Does the acceptance of suffering act the same
way?
M: The fact of pain is easily brought within the focus
of awareness. With suffering it is not that simple. To
focus suffering is not enough, for mental life, as we
know it, is one continuous stream of suffering. To
reach the deeper layers of suffering you must go to
its roots and uncover their vast underground
network, where fear and desire are closely
interwoven and the currents of life's energy oppose,
obstruct and destroy each other.
Q: How can I set right a tangle which is entirely
below the level of my consciousness?
M: By being with yourself, the 'I am'; by watching
yourself in your daily life with alert interest, with the
intention to understand rather than to judge, in full
acceptance of whatever may emerge, because it is
there, you encourage the deep to come to the
surface and enrich your life and consciousness with
its captive energies. This is the great work of
awareness; it removes obstacles and releases
energies by understanding the nature of life and
mind. Intelligence is the door to freedom and alert
attention is the mother of intelligence.
Q: One more question. Why does pleasure end in
pain?
M: Everything has a beginning and an end and so
does pleasure. Don't anticipate and don't regret, and
there will be no pain. It is memory and imagination
that cause suffering.
Of course pain after pleasure may be due to the
misuse of the body or the mind. The body knows its
measure, but the mind does not. Its appetites are
numberless and limitless. Watch your mind with
great diligence, for there lies your bondage and also
the key to freedom.
Q: My question is not yet fully answered: Why are
man's pleasures destructive? Why does he find so
259
K: Mirt kell a fjdalomnak sokkal hatkonyabbnak
lennie, mint az lvezetnek?
M: Az lvezet azonnal elfogadsra kerl, mg az
elme minden erejvel visszautastja a fjdalmat.
Mivel a fjdalom elfogadsa az nnek a
visszautastsa, s az n az igazi boldogsgnak az
tjban ll, a fjdalom szinte elfogadsa kioldozza
a boldogsg kteleit.
K: A szenveds elfogadsa ugyanilyen mdon
mkdik?
M: A fjdalom tnye knnyen a tudatossg
fkuszba visz. Szenvedssel ez nem olyan
egyszer. A szenvedsre fkuszls azrt nem
elegend, mert a mentlis let, ahogy az ismeretes,
egy szakadatlan szenveds folyam. A szenveds
mlyebb rtegeinek az elrshez le kell hatolni a
gykerig, s fel kell fedni hatalmas fldalatti
hlzatt, ahol flelem s vgy szorosan egymsba
fondnak, s az egymssal szemben ll
letenergia ramok elzrjk, s megsemmistik
egymst.
K: Hogyan elrendezni igaztani egy olyan gubancot,
amely teljes egszben tudatossgom szintje alatt
van?
M: Azltal, hogy nmagad, az n vagyok vagy;
azltal, hogy napi leted sorn nmagadat ber
rdekldssel figyeled, megrtse, mintsem a
megtlse szndkval, teljes elfogadsval
brminek, ami felbukkanhat, mivel van, btortod a
mlysget, hogy jjjn a felsznre, s gazdagtsa
letedet s tudatossgodat bebrtnztt energiival.
Ez a tudatossg hatalmas munkja; az let s az
elme termszetnek a megrtsvel eltvoltja az
akadlyokat, s felszabadtja az energikat. A
megrts az ajt a szabadsgba, s az ber
figyelem a megrts szlanyja.
K: Mg egy krds. Az lvezet mirt fjdalom a
vge?
M: Mindennek van kezdete, s vge, s ez gy van
az lvezettel is. Ne vrj el, s ne bnj meg semmit,
s nem lesz fjdalom. Az emlkezet s a kpzelet
az, ami a szenvedst okozza.
Termszetesen, az lvezetet kvet fjdalomnak
oka lehet a testtel, vagy az elmvel val visszals
is. A test ismeri a hatrait, de az elme nem. tvgya
mrtktelen, s korltlan. Nagyon gondosan figyeld
az elmdet, mert benne rejlik rabsgod, ugyanakkor
szabadsgod kulcsa is.
K: Mg nem adtl kimert vlaszt a krdsemre:
mirt destruktvak az emberi lvezetek? Mirt tall
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
much pleasure in destruction? Life's concern lies in
protection, perpetuation and expansion of itself. In
this it is guided by pain and pleasure. At what point
do they become destructive?
M: When the mind takes over, remembers and
anticipates, it exaggerates, it distorts, it overlooks.
The past is projected into future and the future
betrays the expectations. The organs of sensation
and action are stimulated beyond capacity and they
inevitably break down. The objects of pleasure
cannot yield what is expected of them and get worn
out, or destroyed, by misuse. It results in excess of
pain where pleasure was looked for.
Q: We destroy not only ourselves, but others too.
M: Naturally, selfishness is always destructive.
Desire and fear, both are self-centred states.
Between desire and fear anger arises, with anger
hatred, with hatred passion for destruction. War is
hatred in action, organised and equipped with all the
instruments of death.
Q: Is there a way to end these horrors?
M: When more people come to know their real
nature, their influence, however subtle, will prevail
and the world's emotional atmosphere will sweeten
up. People follow their leaders and when among the
leaders appear some, great in heart and mind, and
absolutely free from self-seeking, their impact will be
enough to make the crudities and crimes of the
present age impossible. A new golden age may
come and last for a time and succumb to its own
perfection. For, ebb begins when the tide is at its
highest.
Q: Is there no such thing as permanent perfection?
M: Yes, there is, but it includes all imperfection. It is
the perfection of our self-nature which makes
everything possible, perceivable, interesting. It
knows no suffering, for it neither likes nor dislikes;
neither accepts nor rejects. Creation and destruction
are the two poles between which it weaves its ever-
changing pattern. Be free from predilections and
preferences and the mind with its burden of sorrow
will be no more.
Q: But I am not alone to suffer. There are others.
M: When you go to them with your desires and
fears, you merely add to their sorrows. First be free
of suffering yourself and then only hope of helping
others. You do not even need to hope -- your very
260
oly sok lvezetet a rombolsban? Az let nmaga a
vdelmben, fennmaradsban, s kiterjesztsben
rdekelt. Ebben a fjdalom s az lvezet segtik t.
Mely ponton vlnak ezek destruktvv?
M: Amikor az elme az emlkezs s elre lts
rvn tveszi a hatalmat, akkor szerept tljtsza,
eltorztja, eluralja. A mltat a jvbe vetti, a jv
pedig alulmlja az elvrsokat. Az rzkels s
cselekvs szervei az ingerek ltal tlterheldnek, s
szksgszeren krosodnak. Az lvezet objektumai
nem tudjk megadni a tlk elvrtakat, s
elhasznldnak, tnkremennek a visszals
kvetkeztben. Az lvezet keress mrtktelen
fjdalmat eredmnyez.
K: Nemcsak nmagunkat puszttjuk, hanem
msokat is.
M: Termszetesen, az nzs mindig rombol
hats. Vgy s flelem, mind a kett egocentrikus
llapot. Vgy s flelem kzepette harag keletkezik,
a haraggal gyllet, a gyllettel pusztts irnti
szenvedly. A hbor cselekv gyllet, a hall
minden eszkzvel felszerelve.
K: Van md vget vetni e borzalmaknak?
M: Amikor sokan eljutnak igazi termszetk
ismeretig, az hatsuk, brmennyire finom,
uralkodni fog, s a vilg emocionlis atmoszfrja
megtisztul. Az emberek vezetiket kvetik, s
amikor a vezetk kztt elg sok lesz a szvben s
elmjben nagy, teljesen nzetlen ember, az
hatsuk elg lesz, hogy a jelen kor retlensgeit s
bnteit lehetetlenn tegyk. Jhet egy j aranykor,
s tart egy ideig, majd elbukik sajt tkletessgtl.
Mert az apads akkor kezddik, amikor az r a
legmagasabban ll.
K: Semmi nincs, ami llandan tkletes?
M: De igen, van, de az az sszes tkletlensget
magban foglalja. Ez a mi n-termszetnk, amely
mindent lehetsgess, szlelhetv, rdekess
tesz. Nem ismeri a szenvedst, mert nem ismer
szeretet, sem annak ellenkezjt; nem ismeri sem
az elfogadst, sem a visszautastst. A teremts s
pusztts kt plusa kztt leng az llandan vltoz
rend. Lgy rszrehajlstl s kedvezstl mentes,
s az elme megsznik, szomorsg-terhvel
egyetemben.
K: De nem n szenvedek egyedl. Ott vannak a
tbbiek.
M: Ha vgyaiddal s flelmeiddel kzeledsz
hozzjuk, akkor csak szomorsgukat nveled.
Elbb nmagadat szabadtsd meg a szenvedstl,
s csak azutn kvnd a msok megsegtst. Mg
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
existence will be the greatest help a man can give
his fellowmen.
60. Live Facts, not Fancies
Questioner: You say that whatever you see is
yourself. You also admit that you see the world as
we see it. Here is today's newspaper with all the
horrors going on. Since the world is yourself, how
can you explain such misbehaviour?
Maharaj: Which world do you have in mind?
Q: Our common world, in which we live.
M: Are you sure we live in the same world? I do not
mean nature, the sea and the land, plants and
animals. They are not the problem, nor the endless
space, the infinite time, the inexhaustible power. Do
not be misled by my eating and smoking, reading
and talking. My mind is not here, my life is not here.
Your world, of desires and their fulfilments, of fears
and their escapes, is definitely not my world. I do not
even perceive it, except through what you tell me
about it. It is your private dream world and my only
reaction to it is to ask you to stop dreaming.
Q: Surely, wars and revolutions are not dreams.
Sick mothers and starving children are not dreams.
Wealth, ill-gotten and misused, is not a dream.
M: What else?
Q: A dream cannot be shared.
M: Nor can the waking state. All the three states -- of
waking, dreaming and sleeping -- are subjective,
personal, intimate. They all happen to and are
contained within the little bubble in consciousness,
called 'I'. The real world lies beyond the self.
Q: Self or no self, facts are real.
M: Of course facts are real. I live among them. But
you live with fancies, not with facts. Facts never
clash, while your life and world are full of
contradictions. Contradiction is the mark of the false;
the real never contradicts itself.
For instance, you complain that people are abjectly
poor. Yet you do not share your riches with them.
You mind the war next door, but you hardly give it a
261
csak kvnnod sem kell puszta ltezsed lesz a
legnagyobb segtsg, amit egy ember az
embertrsnak nyjthat.
60. Tnyeket lj, ne kpzelt dolgokat
Krdez: Azt mondod, akrmit ltsz, az nmagad.
Azt is elismered, hogy gy ltod a vilgot, ahogyan
mi. Itt a mai jsg, tele az aktulis szrnysgekkel.
Minthogy a vilg te magad vagy, hogy tudod
megmagyarzni az ilyenfajta helytelen magatartst?
Maharaj: Melyik vilgra gondolsz?
K: Kzs vilgunkra, amelyben lnk.
M: Biztos vagy benne, hogy ugyanabban a vilgban
lnk? Nem a termszetre, a tengerre, a fldre, a
nvnyekre s az llatokra clzok. Nem ezek
jelentik a problmt, s nem is a vgtelen tr, a
hatrtalan id, a kiapadhatatlan er. Ne hagyd, hogy
az evs, dohnyzs, olvass s beszlgets
flrevezessenek. Az n elmm nincs itt, az letem
nem itt van. A vilgod, a vgyaidnak s azok
teljeslsnek, flelmeidnek s az azoktl val
meneklsnek a vilga, hatrozottan nem az n
vilgom. n mg csak nem is szlelem azt, kivve,
amit elmondasz nekem rla. Ez a te privt lmod,
amire az n egyetlen vlaszom az, hogy hagyd abba
az lmodst.
K: A hbork s a forradalmak biztos, hogy nem
lmok. A beteg anyk s az hez gyermekek, nem
lmok. Az ebl szerzett, s helytelenl hasznlt
vagyon nem lom.
M: Mi egyb?
K: Az lom nem lehet megosztott.
M: Az brenlti llapot sem lehet az. Mind a hrom
llapot brenlt, lmods s mlyalvs
szubjektv, szemlyes, intim. Mindezek trtnsek,
s a tudatossg n-nek nevezett kis buborkja
foglalja magban. A valdi vilg az nen tl van.
K: n vagy nem n, a tnyek valdiak.
M: Termszetesen, a tnyek valdiak. De te kpzelt
dolgokkal lsz, nem tnyekkel. A tnyek sohasem
ellentmondak, mg a te leted s vilgod
ellentmondsokkal teli. Az ellentmondsok a
hamissg jelei; a valsg sohasem mond ellent
nmagnak.
Sirnkozol pldul, hogy az emberek
nyomorsgosan szegnyek. Mgsem osztod meg
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
thought when it is in some far off country. The
shifting fortunes of your ego determine your values;
'I think', 'I want', 'I must' are made into absolutes.
Q: Nevertheless, the evil is real.
M: Not more real than you are. Evil is in the wrong
approach to problems created by misunderstanding
and misuse. It is a vicious circle.
Q: Can the circle be broken?
M: A false circle need not be broken. It is enough to
see it as it is -- non-existent.
Q: But, real enough to make us submit to and inflict
indignities and atrocities.
M: Insanity is universal. Sanity is rare. Yet there is
hope, because the moment we perceive our
insanity, we are on the way to sanity. This is the
function of the Guru -- to make us see the madness
of our daily living. Life makes you conscious, but the
teacher makes you aware.
Q: Sir, you are neither the first nor the last. Since
immemorial times people were breaking into reality.
Yet how little it affected our lives. The Ramas and
the Krishnas, the Buddhas and the Christs have
come and gone and we are as we were; wallowing
in sweat and tears. What have the great ones done,
whose lives we witnessed? What have you done,
Sir, to alleviate the world's thrall?
M: You alone can undo the evil you have created.
Your own callous selfishness is at the root of it. Put
first your own house in order and you will see that
your work is done.
Q: The men of wisdom and of love, who came
before us, did set themselves right, often at a
tremendous cost. What was the outcome? A
shooting star, however bright, does not make the
night less dark.
M: To judge them and their work you must become
one of them. A frog in a well knows nothing about
the birds in the sky.
Q: Do you mean to say that between good and evil
there is no wall?
M: There is no wall, because there is no good and
no evil. In every concrete situation there is only the
necessary and the unnecessary. The needful is
262
velk a vagyonodat. A szomszdos hbor miatt
nyugtalankodsz, de alig mltatod figyelemre, ha az
valamely tvoli orszgot sjtja. Egd vltoz
szerencsje hatrozza meg rtkeidet; az n
gondolom, n akarom, nekem kell kizrlagoss
vltak.
K: Azonban, a gonosz valdi.
M: Nem valdibb, mint amilyen te vagy. A gonosz a
flrerts s visszals kvetkeztben ltrejtt
problmk rossz megkzeltse. Ez egy rdgi kr.
K: Megszakthat ez a kr?
M: Egy hamis krt nem szksges megszaktani.
Elegend annak ltni, ami nem lteznek.
K: De ez valjban ahhoz elegend, hogy
engedelmeskedjnk, s gonoszsgokat s
kegyetlensgeket kvessnk el.
M: ltalnos az esztelensg. Nagyon ritka a jzan
gondolkods. Mgis van remny, mert a pillanatban,
ahogy szleljk esztelensgnket, az pelmjsg
tjra lptnk. Ez a funkcija a Gurunak
meglttatni velnk mindennapi letnk rlett. Az
let tudatoss tesz, de a tant krltekintv.
K: Uram, n se nem az els, se nem az utols. si
idktl fogva hatoltak be emberek a valsgba. Mily
kevs hatst gyakorolt ez mgis, a mi letnkre. A
Rmk s a Krisnk, a Buddhk s a Krisztusok
jttek, s mentek, s mi vagyunk, akik voltunk;
verejtkben s knnyekben gzolva. Mit rtek el a
legnagyobbak, akik lete tansgul szolglt? Mit tett
n, Uram, a vilg szolgasgnak az enyhtse
tern?
M: Egyedl te tudod rvnytelenteni a gonoszt, amit
teremtettl. Ennek a gykere a te sajt rzketlen
egoizmusod. Elsknt a sajt hzadat tedd rendbe,
s ltni fogod, hogy dolgodat elvgezted.
K: A blcsessg s szeretet emberei, akik elttnk
jrtak, gyakran szrny ron tettk rendbe magukat.
Mi eredmnye volt? Egy hullcsillag, brmennyire
fnyes, nem teszi az jjelt kevsb sttt.
M: Ahhoz, hogy ket s munkjukat megtlhesd,
elbb egyikkk kell vlnod. A kti bka semmit sem
tud az g madarrl.
K: Azt akarod mondani, hogy nincs fal j s gonosz
kztt?
M: Nincs fal, mert j s gonosz nincsenek. Minden
konkrt szituciban szksges s felesleges van
csupn. A szksges j, a szksgtelen rossz.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
right, the needless is wrong.
Q: Who decides?
M: The situation decides. Every situation is a
challenge which demands the right response. When
the response is right, the challenge is met and the
problem ceases. If the response is wrong, the
challenge is not met and the problem remains
unsolved. Your unsolved problems -- that is what
constitutes your karma. Solve them rightly and be
free.
Q: You seem to drive me always back into myself. Is K: gy ltom, mindig nmagamhoz vezetsz vissza.
there no objective solution to the world's problems? Nincs objektv megolds a vilg problmira?
M: The world problems were created by numberless
people like you, each full of his own desires and
fears. Who can free you of your past, personal and
social, except yourself? And how will you do it
unless you see the urgent need of your being first
free of cravings born of illusion? How can you truly
help, as long as you need help yourself?
Q: In what way did the ancient sages help? In what
way do you help? A few individuals profit, no doubt;
your guidance and example may mean a lot to them;
but in what way do you affect humanity, the totality
of life and consciousness? You say that you are the
world and the world is you; what impact have you
made on it?
M: What kind of Impact do you expect?
Q: Man is stupid, selfish, cruel.
M: Man is also wise, affectionate and kind.
Q: Why does not goodness prevail?
M: It does -- in my real world. In my world even what
you call evil is the servant of the good and therefore
necessary. It is like boils and fevers that clear the
body of impurities. Disease is painful, even
dangerous, but if dealt with rightly, it heals.
Q: Or kills.
M: In some cases death is the best cure. A life may
be worse than death, which is but rarely an
unpleasant experience, whatever the appearances.
Therefore, pity the living, never the dead. This
problem of things, good and evil in themselves, does
not exist in my world. The needful is good and the
needless is evil. In your world the pleasant is good
263
K: Ki dnt?
M: A szituci dnt. Minden szituci egy feladat,
amely megkveteli a helyes vlaszt. Amikor a vlasz
helyes, a feladat megoldsra kerlt, s a problma
megsznik. Ha a vlasz rossz, a feladat nem
teljesl, s a problma megoldatlan marad. A te
megoldatlan problmid amelyek a te karmdat
alkotjk. Oldd meg ket hibtlanul, s szabadd
vlsz.
M: A vilg problmit szmtalan tehozzd hasonl
ember okozta, mindegyik tele van a sajt vgyaival
s flelmeivel. Ki tud megszabadtani a mltadtl,
legyen az szemlyes, vagy trsadalmi, ha te nem?
s hogy fogod ezt vghezvinni, ha nem rzed annak
a srget szksgt, hogy megszabadulj elbb
szletsed illzijnak gytrelmeitl? Hogyan tudnl
addig igazn segteni, amg neked magadnak van
szksged segtsgre?
K: Az si blcsek hogyan segtettek? Te milyen
mdon segtesz? Pr ember ktsgtelenl
hasznostja; segtsged s pldd sokat jelenthet
szmukra; de milyen hatssal vagy az emberisgre,
az let s a tudatossg teljessgre? Azt mondod,
hogy te vagy a vilg, s a vilg te vagy; milyen
mdon hatottl r?
M: Milyen hatsra gondolsz?
K: Az ember ostoba, nz, kegyetlen.
M: Az ember ugyanakkor blcs, szeretetteljes s
jsgos.
K: Mirt a jsg uralkodik?
M: Az uralkodik az n vilgomban. Az n
vilgomban mg az ltalad gonosznak nevezett is a
jt szolglja, s ezrt nlklzhetetlen. Ez a
kelsekhez s a lzhoz hasonlan megtiszttja a
testet szennyezdsektl. A betegsg fjdalmas, st
veszedelmes, de ha helyesen bnsz vele,
meggygyt.
K: Vagy megl.
M: Vannak esetek, amikor a hall a legjobb
gygymd. Van, amikor az let rosszabb, mint a
hall, amely csupn egy kivtelesen kellemetlen
tapasztalat, brmilyen mdon jelenjen a meg. Ezrt
ht, az lt sajnld, sohase a holtat. Ez a dolgokkal
kapcsolatos problma, hogy nmagukban jk s
rosszak, nem ltezik az n vilgomban. A
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
and the painful is evil.
Q: What is necessary?
M: To grow is necessary. To outgrow is necessary.
To leave behind the good for the sake of the better
is necessary.
Q: Mivgre?
M: The end is in the beginning. You end where you
start -- in the Absolute.
Q: Why all this trouble then? To come back to where K: Mirt akkor mindez a szenveds? Visszatrni
I started? oda, ahol kezdtem?
M: Whose trouble? Which trouble? Do you pity the
seed that is to grow and multiply till it becomes a
mighty forest? Do you kill an infant to save him from
the bother of living? What is wrong with life, ever
more life? Remove the obstacles to growing and all
your personal, social, economic and political
problems will just dissolve. The universe is perfect
as a whole and the part's striving for perfection is a
way of joy. Willingly sacrifice the imperfect to the
perfect and there will be no more talk about good
and evil.
Q: Yet we are afraid of the better and cling to the
worse.
M: This is our stupidity, verging on insanity.
61. Matter is Consciousness Itself
Questioner: I was lucky to have holy company all
my life. Is it enough for self-realisation?
Maharaj: It depends what you make of it.
Q: I was told that the liberating action of satsang is
automatic. Just like a river carries one to the
estuary, so the subtle and silent influence of good
people will take me to reality.
M: It will take you to the river, but the crossing is
your own. Freedom cannot be gained nor kept
without will-to-freedom. You must strive for
liberation; the least you can do is uncover and
remove the obstacles diligently. If you want peace
you must strive for it. You will not get peace just by
keeping quiet.
264
szksgszer j, s a szksgtelen rossz. A te
vilgodban a kellemes j, s a fjdalmas rossz.
K: Mi szksges?
M: A nvekeds szksges. Tlnni szksgtelen.
A j elhagysa a jobb kedvrt szksges.
K: Mi ennek a vge?
M: A vg a kezdetben van. Ott van a vged, ahol a
kezdeted az Abszoltban.
M: Kinek a szenvedse? Milyen szenveds?
Sajnlod a magot, amely addig n, s szaporodik,
mg hatalmas erdv nem vlik? Meglnl egy
csecsemt, hogy megmentsd t a vilg terhtl? Mi
bajod az lettel, az llandan szaporod lettel?
Tvoltsd el a nvekeds akadlyait, s minden
szemlyes, trsadalmi, gazdasgi s politikai
problmd egybl szertefoszlik. Az univerzum teljes
egszben tkletes, s rszeinek tkletessgre
val trekvse, az rm tja. ldozd fel nknt a
tkletlent a tkletesrt, s nem fogsz tbb jrl
s rosszrl beszlni.
K: Mgis rettegnk a jobbtl, s kapaszkodunk a
rosszba.
M: Ez a mi elmebajjal hatros ostobasgunk.
61. Az anyag a tudatossg maga
Krdez: Szerencss vagyok, hogy egsz letemet
szentek trsasgban tlthettem. Elegend ez az
nmegvalstshoz?
Maharaj: Attl fgg, mihez kezdesz vele.
K: gy hallottam, hogy a satsang megszabadt
hatsa automatikus. Mint ahogy a foly a torkolatig
szllt, ugyangy juttat el a j emberek titokzatos s
csendes hatsa a valsghoz.
M: El fog juttatni tged a folyig, de tkelni rajta
neked kell. A szabadsg nem nyerhet el, vagy
kaphat meg a szabadsg vgya nlkl.
Trekedned kell a szabadsgra; a legkevesebb,
amit tehetsz, hogy szorgalmasan feltrod s
eltvoltod az akadlyokat. Ha bkt akarsz, akkor
erre kell trekedned. Nem fogod elnyerni a bkt
csupn azltal, hogy csendben maradsz.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: A child just grows. He does not make plans for
growth, nor has he a pattern; nor does he grow by
fragments, a hand here a leg there; he grows
integrally and unconsciously.
M: Because he is free of imagination. You can also
grow like this, but you must not indulge in forecasts
and plans, born of memory and anticipation. It is one
of the peculiarities of a gnani that he is not
concerned with the future. Your concern with future
is due to fear of pain and desire for pleasure, to the
gnani all is bliss: he is happy with whatever comes.
Q: Surely, there are many things that would make
even a gnani miserable.
M: A gnani may meet with difficulties, but they do
not make him suffer. Bringing up a child from birth to
maturity may seem a hard task, but to a mother the
memories of hardships are a joy. There is nothing
wrong with the world. What is wrong is in the way
you look at it. It is your own imagination that
misleads you. Without imagination there is no world.
Your conviction that you are conscious of a world is
the world. The world you perceive is made of
consciousness; what you call matter is
consciousness itself. You are the space (akash) in
which it moves, the time in which it lasts, the love
that gives it life. Cut off imagination and attachment
and what remains?
Q: The world remains. I remain.
M: Yes. But how different it is when you can see it
as it is, not through the screen of desire and fear.
Q: What for are all these distinctions -- reality and
illusion, wisdom and ignorance, saint and sinner?
Everyone is in search of happiness, everyone strives
desperately; everyone is a Yogi and his life a school
of wisdom. Each learns his own way the lessons he
needs. Society approves of some, disapproves of
others; there are no rules that apply everywhere and
for all time.
M: In my world love is the only law. I do not ask for
love, I give it. Such is my nature.
Q: I see you living your life according to a pattern.
You run a meditation class in the morning, lecture
and have discussions regularly; twice daily there is
worship (puja) and religious singing (bhajan) in the
evening. You seem to adhere to the routine
scrupulously.
265
K: A gyermek nmagtl nvekszik. Nem kszt
terveket a nvekedshez, s minti sincsenek
hozz; s nvekedse nem is rszletekben trtnik, a
kz itt, a lb ott; egysgesen s ntudatlanul
nvekszik.
M: Mivel mentes a kpzeldstl. Te is
nvekedhetsz gy, de nem szabad megengedned
magadnak emlkezetbl s elvrsbl szlet
sejtseket s terveket. A gnani egyik jellemzje,
hogy nem trdik a jvvel. Te a fjdalomtl val
flelmed, s az lvezet irnti vgyad miatt trdsz a
jvvel, a gnani szmra minden boldogsg: minden
boldogsggal tlti el, ami jn.
K: Van biztosan sok olyan dolog, ami mg egy
gnanit is boldogtalann tenne.
M: Elfordulhat, hogy a gnani nehzsgekkel
szembesl, de azok nem okoznak szenvedst a
szmra. Egy gyermeknek a szltstl az
rettsgig tart felnevelse kemny feladatnak
tnhet, de egy anya szmra a nehzsgek emlkei
rmt jelentenek. Nincs semmi baj a vilggal. Azzal
van baj, ahogyan szemlled azt. Tged a sajt
kpzeldsed vezet flre. Kpzelds nlkl nincs
vilg. Neked meggyzdsed, hogy tudod, a vilg a
vilg. Az ltalad szlelt vilg tudatossgbl ll; amit
te anyagnak nevezel, az a tudatossg maga. Te
vagy a tr (akash), amelyben az mozog, az id,
amelyben az fennmarad, a szeretet, amely az lett
adja. Vgd el a kpzeldst s a ragaszkodst, s
mi marad?
K: A vilg marad. n maradok.
M: Igen. De mennyire ms, mikor gy ltod, ahogy
van, nem pedig a vgy s a flelem ftyln
keresztl.
K: Mirt kell klnbsget tenni valsg s illzi,
blcsessg s tudatlansg, szent s bns kztt?
Mindenki boldogsg keres, mindenki elszntan
trekszik; mindenki Yogi, akinek az lete a
blcsessg iskolja. Mindenki a maga mdjn
tanulja meg a szmra szksges leckt. A
trsadalom nmelyeket helyesel, msokat
helytelent; nincsenek olyan mindenhol s
mindenkor alkalmazhat szablyok.
M: Az n vilgomban a szeretet az egyedli trvny.
Nem krem a szeretetet, hanem adom. Ilyen a
termszetem.
K: gy ltom, hogy letedet egy kialakult rendnek
megfelelen led. Reggelente egy ra meditci,
majd elads s beszlgets; naponta ktszer
istentisztelet (puja) s este vallsos nekls
(bhajan). gy ltszik, mintha agglyos mdon
ragaszkodnl a megszokott rutinhoz.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
M: The worship and the singing are as I found them
and I saw no reason to interfere. The general routine
is according to the wishes of the people with whom I
happen to live or who come to listen. They are
working people, with many obligations and the
timings are for their convenience. Some repetitive
routine is inevitable. Even animals and plants have
their time-tables.
Q: Yes, we see a regular sequence in all life. Who
maintains the order? Is there an inner ruler, who lays ltunk. Ki az, aki a rendet fenntartja? Ltezik egy
down laws and enforces order?
M: Everything moves according to its nature. Where
is the need of a policeman? Every action creates a
reaction, which balances and neutralises the action.
Everything happens, but there is a continuous
cancelling out, and in the end it is as if nothing
happened.
Q: Do not console me with final harmonies. The
accounts tally, but the loss is mine.
M: Wait and see. You may end up with a profit good
enough to justify the outlays.
Q: There is a long life behind me and I often wonder
whether its many events took place by accident, or
there was a plan. Was there a pattern laid down
before I was born by which I had to live my life? If
yes, who made the plans and who enforced them?
Could there be deviations and mistakes? Some say
destiny is immutable and every second of life is
predetermined; others say that pure accident
decides everything.
M: You can have it as you like. You can distinguish
in your life a pattern or see merely a chain of
accidents. Explanations are meant to please the
mind. They need not be true. Reality is indefinable
and indescribable.
Q: Sir, you are escaping my question. I want to
know how you look at it. Wherever we look we find
structure of unbelievable intelligence and beauty.
How can I believe that the universe is formless and
chaotic? Your world, the world in which you live,
may be formless, but it need not be chaotic.
M: The objective universe has structure, is orderly
and beautiful. Nobody can deny it. But structure and
pattern, imply constraint and compulsion. My world
is absolutely free; everything in it is self-determined.
Therefore I keep on saying that all happens by itself.
There is order in my world too, but it is not imposed
266
M: Az imdkozs s az nekls bevett szoks, s
nem lttam okt, hogy vltoztassak. Az ltalnos
gyakorlat azon emberek kvnalmainak felel meg,
akikkel egytt lek, illetve akik eljnnek, hogy
meghallgassanak. k dolgoz emberek, sok
ktelezettsggel, s az idrend az knyelmket
szolglja. Az ismtld szoksok elkerlhetetlenek.
Mg az llatoknak s a nvnyeknek is megvan a
maguk idbeosztsa.
K: Igen, az egsz letben szablyos szekvencikat
bels uralkod, aki a trvnyeket lefekteti, s a
rendet rvnyre juttatja?
M: Minden a maga termszete szerint mozog. Mirt
lenne szksg rendrre? Minden akci reakcit von
maga utn, amely kiegyenlti s semlegesti az
akcit. Minden zajlik, de folyamatosan kioltjk
egymst, s a vgn mintha semmi nem trtnt
volna.
K: Ne vigasztalj engem vgs harmnikkal. A
szmla kiegyenltve, de a vesztesg az enym.
M: Vrj, s nzz. Nyeresggel vgezheted, ami
elegend a kiadsok igazolsra.
K: Egy hossz let van mgttem, s kvncsi
vagyok nem egyszer, hogy vajon az a sok meglt
esemny vletlenszer volt, vagy terv szerinti? Volt
esetleg egy szletsem eltt lefektetett sma, amely
szerint lnem kellett az letemet? Ha igen, ki
csinlta a terveket, s ki juttatta rvnyre azokat?
Elfordulhattak eltrsek s hibk? Egyesek azt
mondjk, hogy a sors megvltoztathatatlan, s az
let minden pillanata elre meghatrozott; msok
azt mondjk, hogy tisztn a vletlen intz mindent.
M: Ahogy tetszik. Felismerhetsz mintkat az
letedben, vagy lthatod vletlenek lncolatnak
csupn. A magyarzatok rtelme, hogy elmdet
kielgtsk. Nem kell, hogy igazak legyenek. A
valsg meghatrozhatatlan, s lerhatatlan.
K: Tisztelt Uram, ez a krdsem elkerlse. n azt
szeretnm tudni, hogy te hogy ltod ezt. Brhova
nznk, hihetetlen intelligencia s szpsg
struktrit talljuk. Hogyan hihetnm, hogy az
univerzum forma- s rendszer nlkli? A te vilgod,
az a vilg, amelyben te lsz, lehet, hogy forma
nlkli, de nem lehet kaotkius.
M: Az objektv univerzumnak rendezett s szp
szerkezete van. Ezt senki nem cfolhatja. De a
struktra s minta jelentse korltozs s knyszer.
Az n vilgom abszolte szabad; minden, ami
benne van nmeghatrozott. Ezrt amit mondtam,
fenntartom, minden nmagtl trtnik. Az n
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
from outside. It comes spontaneously and vilgomban is rend van, de az nem kvlrl van
immediately, because of its timelessness. Perfection rknyszertve. Idtlensge miatt spontn s
is not in the future. It is now. kzvetlen. A tkletessg nem a jvben van,
hanem most.
Q: Does your world affect mine?
M: At one point only -- at the point of the now. It
gives it momentary being, a fleeting sense of reality.
In full awareness the contact is established. It needs
effortless, un-self-conscious attention.
Q: Is not attention an attitude of mind?
M: Yes, when the mind is eager for reality, it gives
attention. There is nothing wrong with your world, it
is your thinking yourself to be separate from it that
creates disorder. Selfishness is the source of all evil.
Q: I am coming back to my question. Before I was
born, did my inner self decide the details of my life,
or was it entirely accidental and at the mercy of
heredity and circumstances?
M: Those who claim to have selected their father
and mother and decided how they are going to live
their next life may know for themselves. I know for
myself. I was never born.
Q: I see you sitting in front of me and replying my
questions.
M: You see the body only which, of course, was
born and will die.
Q: It is the life-story of thus body-mind that I am
interested in. Was it laid down by you or somebody
else, or did it happen accidentally?
M: There is a catch in your very question. I make no
distinction between the body and the universe. Each
is the cause of the other; each is the other, in truth.
But I am out of it all. When I am telling you that I was
never born, why go on asking me what were my
preparations for the next birth? The moment you
allow your imagination to spin, it at once spins out a
universe. It is not at all as you imagine and I am not
bound by your imaginings.
Q: It requires intelligence and energy to build and
maintain a living body. Where do they come from?
M: There is only imagination. The intelligence and
power are all used up in your imagination. It has
absorbed you so completely that you just cannot
267
K: A te vilgod hatssal van az enymre?
M: Csupn egyetlen ponton a most pontjn
keresztl. Az ad neki pillanatnyi ltet, fut valsg
rzetet. A teljes tudatossgban valsul meg a
kapcsolat. Ez erfesztsmentes, nem tudatos
figyelmet kvn.
K: Nem elme attitd a figyels?
M: De igen, mikor az elme valsgra htozik, akkor
rirnytja a figyelmt. Semmi baj nincs a vilgoddal,
a gondolkodsod az, ami miatt elklnlsz tle,
amely zrzavart teremt. Az nzs minden rossz
forrsa.
K: Visszatrek a krdsemre. Mieltt megszlettem
volna, bels nem dnttte el letemnek a rszleteit,
vagy pedig teljesen vletlenszeren alakult, az
rkls s a krlmnyek knye-kedve szerint?
M: Akik azt lltjk, hogy megvlasztottk apjukat s
anyjukat, s eldntttk, hogyan kvnjk lni
kvetkez letket, ismerhetnk nmagukat. n
ismerem nmagam. n sohasem szlettem.
K: n viszont ltom, hogy itt lsz elttem, s
vlaszolsz a krdseimre.
M: Csak a testet ltod, amely termszetesen
megszletett, s meg fog halni.
K: Ilyenformn engem a test-elme lettrtnete
rdekel. Te hatroztad meg azt, vagy valaki ms,
vagy vletlensgbl trtnt?
M: Ebben a krdsben valjban egy kelepce rejlik.
n nem teszek klnbsget a test s az univerzum
kztt. Igazbl mindegyik a msik oka, mindegyik
ms-ms. De n mindkettn kvl llok. Mikor azt
mondom neked, hogy soha nem szlettem, mirt
krded tovbbra is, hogyan kszltem fel a
kvetkez szletsre? A pillanatban, hogy
megengeded kpzeletednek, hogy tallgasson,
azonnal kitall egy univerzumot. Egyltaln nem gy
van, ahogy elkpzeled, s engem nem ktnek a
kpzeldseid.
K: Egy l test felptshez s fenntartshoz
intelligencira s energira van szksg. Honnan
szrmaznak ezek?
M: Ez csak kpzelds. Az intelligencia s er a
kpzeletedben kerlnek felhasznlsra. Annyira
tkletesen magba szvott tged, hogy fel se tudod
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
grasp how far from reality you have wandered. No
doubt imagination is richly creative. Universe within
universe are built on it. Yet they are all in space and
time, past and future, which just do not exist.
Q: I have read recently a report about a little girl who
was very cruelly handled in her early childhood. She
was badly mutilated and disfigured and grew up in
an orphanage, completely estranged from its
surroundings. This little girl was quiet and obedient,
but completely indifferent. One of the nuns who were
looking after the children, was convinced that the girl
was not mentally retarded, but merely withdrawn,
irresponsive. A psychoanalyst was asked to take up
the case and for full two years he would see the
child once a week and try to break the wall of
isolation. She was docile and well-behaved, but
would give no attention to her doctor. He brought her
a toy house, with rooms and movable furniture and
dolls representing father, mother and their children.
It brought out a response, the girl got interested.
One day the old hurts revived and came to the
surface. Gradually she recovered, a number of
operations brought back her face and body to
normal and she grew into an efficient and attractive
young woman. It took the doctor more than five
years, but the work was done. He was a real Guru.
He did not put down conditions nor talk about
readiness and eligibility. Without faith, without hope,
out of love only he tried and tried again.
M: Yes, that is the nature of a Guru. He will never
give up. But, to succeed, he must not be met with
too much resistance. Doubt and disobedience
necessarily delay. Given confidence and pliability,
he can bring about a radical change in the disciple
speedily. Deep insight in the Guru and earnestness
in the disciple, both are needed. Whatever was her
condition, the girl in your story suffered for lack of
earnestness in people. The most difficult are the
intellectuals. They talk a lot, but are not serious.
What you call realisation is a natural thing. When
you are ready, your Guru will be waiting. Sadhana is
effortless. When the relationship with your teacher is
right you grow. Above all, trust him. He cannot
mislead you.
Q: Even when he asks me to do something patently
wrong?
M: Do it. A Sanyasi had been asked by his Guru to
marry. He obeyed and suffered bitterly. But his four
children were all saints and seers, the greatest in
Maharashtra. Be happy with whatever comes from
your Guru and you will grow to perfection without
striving.
268
fogni, milyen messze elkalandoztl a valsgtl.
Nem ktsges, a kpzelet nagyon kreatv. Egy
univerzumon belli univerzum pl r. Radsul
mindez trben s idben, s mltban s jvben,
amelyek ugyancsak nem lteznek.
K: Nemrg olvastam egy tudstst egy olyan
kislnyrl, akivel egszen kicsi korban kegyetlenl
bntak. Slyosan megcsonktottk s elcsftottk,
s egy rvahzban ntt fel, teljesen eltvolodva a
krnyezettl. Ez a kislny csendes volt s
szfogad, de teljesen kzmbs. Az egyik nvr,
aki a gyermekeket gondozta, meg volt rla
gyzdve, hogy a lny nem volt szellemileg
visszamaradott, csupn zrkzott, kznys. Egy
pszichoanalitikus, akit felkrtek, hogy foglalkozzon
vele, kt ven keresztl, heti egy alkalommal
prblkozott, hogy ttrje az elszigeteltsg falt. A
kislny fogkony volt, s illedelmes, de nem fordtott
figyelmet orvosra. Az orvos hozott a kislnynak egy
babahzat, szobkkal s mozgathat btorokkal,
apt, anyt s azok gyermekeit reprezentl
babkkal. Egy nap a rgi bntalmak felledtek, s
felsznre jttek. A kislny fokozatosan felplt, s
miutn arct s testt tbb mtttel helyrelltottk,
j kpessg s vonz fiatal n lett belle. Tbb,
mint t vbe kerlt a doktornak, de a feladatot
teljestette. egy igazi Guru volt. Nem tmasztott
feltteleket, s jindulatrl, s alkalmassgrl sem
beszlt. Hit nlkl, remnyvesztetten, csupn
szeretetbl prblkozott, jra s jra.
M: Igen, a Guru termszete ilyen. Soha nem adja
fel. De a siker rdekben nem szabad tl sok
ellenllssal tallkoznia. A ktely s engedetlensg
szksgkppen ksleltet hatsak. Kell bizalom
s alkalmazkods esetn a tantvnyban gyors, s
radiklis vltozst tud elidzni. A Guru mly
lesltsa, s a tantvny komolysga, mindkett
szkges. Brmi volt a trtnetbeli kislny
kondcija, az emberek komolysgnak a hinytl
szenvedett. A legtbb problma az rtelmisggel
van. Sokat beszlnek, de nem komolyak.
Amit megvalstsnak nevezel, az egy termszetes
dolog. Mikor kszen llsz, Gurud vrni fog. A
sadhana nem ignyel erfesztst. Amikor rendben
van a kapcsolatod a tantval, akkor nvekszel.
Mindenekeltt, higgy neki. Nem vihet rossz tra.
K: Mg akkor is, ha valamilyen nyilvnvalan rossz
dolog megttelre kr?
M: Tedd meg. Egy Sanyasit arra krt a Guruja, hogy
hzasodjon meg. Engedelmeskedett, s kegyetlenl
szenvedett. De ngy gyermeke szentek s prftk
lettek, a legnagyobbak Maharashtrban. Fogadj
minden olyat elgedetten, ami Gurudtl jn, s
tkletessged erfeszts nlkl fog gyarapodni.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: Sir, have you any wants or wishes. Can I do K: Tisztelt Uram, van valamilyen haja, vagy
anything for you? kvnsga? Tehetek valamit nrt?

M: What can you give me that I do not have? M: Mit adhatsz nekem, amim nincs? Az
Material things are needed for contentment. But I am elgedettsghez anyagi dolgok szksgesek. De n
contented with myself. What else do I need? elgedett vagyok magammal. Mire egybre lenne
szksgem?

Q: Surely, when you are hungry you need food and K: Ha hes vagy, nyilvn telre van szksged,
when sick you need medicine. betegsged esetn pedig orvossgra.

M: Hunger brings the food and illness brings the M: hsg hozza az telt, betegsg hozza a
medicine. It is all nature's work. gygyszert. Mindez a termszet munkja.

Q: lf I bring something I believe you need, will you K: Ha hozok valamit, amirl gy gondolom,
accept it? szksged van, elfogadod?

M: The love that made you offer will make me M: A szeretet, amely miatt felajnlod, arra ksztet,
accept. hogy elfogadjam.

Q: If somebody offers to build you a beautiful K: Ha felajnlan valaki, hogy pt neked egy szp
Ashram? Ashramot?

M: Let him, by all means. Let him spend a fortune, M: Persze, tegye meg. Hadd kltsn vagyonokat,
employ hundreds, feed thousands. alkalmazzon szzakat, etessen ezreket.

Q: Is it not a desire? K: Nem vgysz r?

M: Not at all. I am only asking him to do it properly, M: Egyltaln nem. Csak azt krem tle, hogy
not stingily, half-heartedly. He is fulfilling his own tkletesen csinlja, ne fsvny mdon, flszvvel. A
desire, not mine. Let him do it well and be famous sajt vgyt teljesti, nem az enymet. Csinlja jl,
among men and gods. s vljon hress emberek s istenek kztt.

Q: But do you want it? K: De te akarod?

M: I do not want it. M: Nem akarom.

Q: Will you accept it? K: Elfogadnd?

M: I don't need it. M: Nincs szksgem r.

Q: Will you stay in it? K: Laknl benne?

M: If I am compelled. M: Ha rknyszertenek.

Q: What can compel you? K: Mi tud rknyszerteni?

M: Love of those who are in search of light. M: Azoknak a szeretete, akik a fnyt keresik.

Q: Yes, I see your point. Now, how am I to go into K: Igen, rtem az llspontodat. Nos, hogyan
samadhi? rhetem el a samadhit?

M: If you are in the right state, whatever you see will
put you into samadhi. After all, samadhi is nothing
unusual. When the mind is intensely interested, it
becomes one with the object of interest -- the seer
and the seen become one in seeing, the hearer and
the heard become one in hearing, the lover and the
loved become one in loving. Every experience can
be the ground for samadhi.
M: Ha a megfelel llapotban vagy, brmit ltsz, a
samadhiba visz. Vgl is, a samadhiban nincs
semmi klns. Amikor az elme intenzven
rdekldik, akkor eggy vlik rdekldsnek
trgyval a lt s a ltott eggy vlik a ltsban,
a hall s a hallott eggy vlik a hallsban, a
szeret s a szeretett eggy vlik a szeretetben.
Minden tapasztalat lehet alapja a samadhinak.

269
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: Are you always in a state of samadhi?
M: Of course not samadhi is a state of mind, after
all. I am beyond all experience, even of samadhi. I
am the great devourer and destroyer: whatever I
touch dissolves into void (akash).
Q: I need samadhis for self-realisation.
M: You have all the self-realisation you need, but
you do not trust it. Have courage, trust yourself, go,
talk, act; give it a chance to prove itself. With some,
realisation comes imperceptibly, but somehow they
need convincing. They have changed, but they do
not notice it. Such non-spectacular cases are often
the most reliable.
Q: Can one believe himself to be realised and be
mistaken?
M: Of course. The very idea 'I am self-realised' is a
mistake. There is no 'I am this'. 'I am that' in the
Natural State.
62. In the Supreme the Witness Appears
Questioner: Some forty years ago J. Krishnamurti
said that there is life only and all talk of personalities
and individualities has no foundation in reality. He
did not attempt to describe life -- he merely said that
while life need not and cannot be described, it can
be fully experienced, if the obstacles to its being
experienced are removed. The main hindrance lies
in our idea of, and addiction to, time, in our habit of
anticipating a future in the light of the past. The sum
total of the past becomes the 'I was', the hoped for
future becomes the 'I shall be' and life is a constant
effort of crossing over from what 'I was' to what I
shall be'. The present moment, the 'now' is lost sight
of. Maharaj speaks of 'I am'. Is it an illusion, like 'I
was' and 'I shall be', or is there something real about
it? And if the I am' too is an illusion, how does one
free oneself from it? The very notion of I am free of 'I
am' is an absurdity. Is there something real,
something lasting about the 'I am' in distinction from
the 'I was', or I shall be', which change with time, as
added memories create new expectations?
Maharaj: The present 'I am' is as false as the 'I was'
and 'I shall be'. It is merely an idea in the mind, an
270
K: Te mindig a samadhi llapotban vagy?
M: Termszetesen nem, a samadhi egy elmellapot,
vgl is. n minden tapasztalson tl vagyok, mg a
samadhin is. n vagyok a nagy pusztt s rombol:
brmit megrintek, beleolvad az ressgbe (akash).
K: Nekem samadhikra van szksgem az
nmegvalstshoz.
M: Rendelkezel mindazon nmegvalstssal, amire
szksged van, de nem hiszed el. Lgy btor, higgy
magadban, menj, jrj, cselekedj; adj neki
lehetsget, hogy megnyilvntsa magt.
Nmelyeknl a megvalsuls szrevehetetlenl
rkezik, de valahogy meg kell gyzdnik.
Megvltoztak, de nem veszik szre. Az ilyen
kevss ltvnyos esetek gyakran a
legmegbzhatbbak.
K: Lehet olyan, hogy valaki azt hiszi magrl, hogy
megvalsult, s tved?
M: Termszetesen. Az n megvalsult vagyok
ideja valjban tveds. Nem ltezik n ez
vagyok. n az vagyok a Termszetes llapotban.
62. A Legfelsbben jelenik meg a tan
Krdez: J. Krishnamurti mondta gy negyven ve,
hogy let ltezik csupn, s a szemlyisgekrl s
egynisgekrl szl beszdeknek nincs semmifle
valsg alapja. Nem prblta lerni az letet
csupn annyit mondott, hogy mg az letet nem
szksges, s nem lehetsges lerni, teljesen meg
lehet tapasztalni, ha meglsnek akadlyai
megismersre s eltvoltsra kerlnek. A legfbb
akadlyt idvel kapcsolatos ideink s fggsgeink
jelentik, abbli szoksunk, hogy elrebocstjuk a
jvt a mlt fnyben. A mlt sszessge az n
voltam-m vlik, a jvvel szembeni vrakozs az
n leszek'-k vlik, s az let az n voltam-bl az
n leszek-be val tmenet folyamatos erfesztse.
A jelen pillanat, a most szem ell veszett. Maharaj
az n vagyok'-rl beszl. Ez ugyanolyan illzi, mint
az n voltam, s az n leszek, vagy valdi
valamilyen mdon? s ha az n vagyok is illzi,
hogyan szabulhat meg tle az ember? Valjban az
n vagyok'-tl val megszabaduls elkpzelse is
abszurdits. Valdi, vagy tarts valamikppen az n
vagyok', eltren az n voltam'-tl, vagy az n
leszek'-tl, amelyek vltoznak az idvel, ahogy a
ltrejv emlkek j elvrsokat teremtenek?
Maharaj: A jelenlv n vagyok ugyan olyan
hamis, mint az n voltam s az n leszek. Egy
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
impression left by memory, and the separate identity
it creates is false. This habit of referring to a false
centre must be done away with, the notion 'I see', 'I
feel', 'I think', 'I do', must disappear from the field of
consciousness; what remains when the false is no
more, is real.
Q: What is this big talk about elimination of the self?
How can the self eliminate itself? What kind of
metaphysical acrobatics can lead to the
disappearance of the acrobat? In the end he will
reappear, mightily proud of his disappearing.
M: You need not chase the 'I am' to kill it. You
cannot. All you need is a sincere longing for reality.
We call it atma-bhakti, the love of the Supreme: or
moksha-sankalpa, the determination to be free from
the false. Without love, and will inspired by love,
nothing can be done. Merely talking about Reality
without doing anything about it is self-defeating.
There must be love in the relation between the
person who says 'I am' and the observer of that 'I
am'. As long as the observer, the inner self, the
'higher' self, considers himself apart from the
observed, the 'lower' self, despises it and condemns
it, the situation is hopeless. It is only when the
observer (vyakta) accepts the person (vyakti) as a
projection or manifestation of himself, and, so to say,
takes the self into the Self, the duality of 'I' and 'this'
goes and in the identity of the outer and the inner
the Supreme Reality manifests itself.
This union of the seer and the seen happens when
the seer becomes conscious of himself as the seer,
he is not merely interested in the seen, which he is
anyhow, but also interested in being interested,
giving attention to attention, aware of being aware.
Affectionate awareness is the crucial factor that
brings Reality into focus.
Q: According to the Theosophists and allied
occultists, man consists of three aspects:
personality, individuality and spirituality. Beyond
spirituality lies divinity. The personality is strictly
temporary and valid for one birth only. It begins with
the birth of the body and ends with the birth of the
next body. Once over, it is over for good; nothing
remains of it except a few sweet or bitter lessons.
The individuality begins with the animal-man and
ends with the fully human. The split between the
personality and individuality is characteristic of our
present-day humanity. On one side the individuality
with its longing for the true, the good and the
271
idea csupn az elmben, egy emlkezetben
megmaradt benyoms, s az ltala ltrehozott
klnll nazonossg is hamis. A hamis kzpontra
hivatkozsnak ezt a szokst el kell tvoltani, az n
ltom, n rzem, n csinlom kpzetet el kell
tntetni a tudatossg terbl; ami akkor marad,
amikor a hamis mr nincs tbb, az a valdi.
K: Mi ez a nagy elads az n megszntetsrl?
Hogyan szntethetn meg az n nmagt? Mifle
metafizikai akrobatika vezethet az akrobata
eltnshez? A vgn mg jra megjelenik, olyan
nagyon bszke az eltnsre.
M: Nem szksges hajtvadszatot folytatnod az
n vagyok meglsre. gysem tudod. Mindssze
arra van szksg, hogy szintn vgydj a valsg
utn. Ennek a neve atma-bhakti, a Legfelsbb
szeretete: vagy moksha-sankalpa, ami a hamistl
val megszabaduls meghatrozsa. Szeretet
nlkl, s szeretet ltal ihletett akarat nlkl semmit
nem tehetsz. Ha beszlsz csupn a Valsgrl,
anlkl hogy brmit is tennl rte, sajt rdeked
ellenben dolgozol. Az n vagyok-ot mond
szemly, s ennek az n vagyok-nak a
megfigyelje viszonya a szeretetnek kell, hogy
legyen. Amg a megfigyel, a bels n, a
magasabb n, a megfigyelttl klnllnak tekinti
magt, az alsbb n pedig semmibe veszi, s
elutastja azt, addig a helyzet remnytelen. Csak
amikor a megfigyel (vyakta) a szemlyt (vyakti)
nmaga kivettseknt, vagy megnyilvnulsaknt
fogadja el, s gy az nt, gyszlvn, az nbe
helyezi, az n s ez kettssge eltnik, s a kls
s a bels azonossgban a Legfelsbb Valsg
nyilvntja meg magt.
A lt s a ltott ezen egysge akkor jn ltre,
amikor a lt tudatra bred nmagnak, mint a
ltnak, t nem csupn a ltott rdekli, amely amgy
is maga, hanem rdekli a ltez rdekld is,
figyelmvel tnteti ki a figyelmet, tudatban van a
ltez tudatnak. A szeretetteljes tudatossg az a
kulcsfontossg tnyez, amely a Realitst
fkuszba helyezi.
K: Teozfusok s hasonl okkultistk szerint az
ember hrom aspektusbl ll: szemlyisg,
individualits, s spiritualits. A spiritualitson tl az
istenisg van. A szemlyisg hatrozottan tmeneti
jelleg, s csak egy szletsre rvnyes. A test
szletsvel kezddik, s a kvetkez test
szletsvel r vget. Amikor vge, egyszer s
mindenkorra vge; semmi nem marad belle,
nhny kellemes, vagy keserves tapasztalat
kivtelvel.
Az individualits az llat-emberrel kezddik, s a
kiteljesesedett emberrel r vget. Napjaink
emberisgt a szemlyisg s az individualits
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
beautiful; on the other side an ugly struggle between kettszakadsa jellemzi. Egyik oldalon az
habit and ambition, fear and greed, passivity and individulits az igazsg, a j, s szp irnti
violence. vgyakozsval; a msik oldalon egy csnya
kzdelem szoks s nagyravgys, flelem s
The spirituality aspect is still in abeyance. It cannot kapzsisg, passzivits s erszak kztt.
manifest itself in an atmosphere of duality. Only
when the personality is reunited with the individuality A spiritulis aspektus mg nyugv llapotban van. A
and becomes a limited, perhaps, but true expression dualits atmoszfrjban nem kpes nmagt
of it, that the light and love and beauty of the megnyilvntani, csak ha a szemlyisg jraegyesl
spiritual come into their own. az individualitssal, s annak egy taln korltozott,
de valsgh kifejezsv vlik, hogy a spiritulis
You teach of the vyakti, vyakta, avyakta (observer, fnye, szeretete s szpsge sajt birtokba lpjen.
observed and ground of observation). Does it tally
with the other view? A te tantsod a vyakti, vyakta, avyakta (megfigyel,
megfigyelt s megfigyels). Megfelel ez a msik
nzetnek?

M: Yes, when the vyakti realises its non-existence in
separation from the vyakta, and the vyakta sees the
vyakti as his own expression, then the peace and
silence of the avyakta state come into being. In
reality, the three are one: the vyakta and the avyakta
are inseparable, while the vyakti is the sensing-
feeling-thinking process, based on the body made of
and fed by the five elements.
M: Igen, amikor a vyakti nnn nem-ltt a vyakta-
tl val elklnltsgben realizlja, s a vyakta a
vyakti-t a sajt kifejezdsnek ltja, megszletik az
avyakta bkjnek s csendjnek az llapota.
Valjban a hrom egy: a vyakta s az avyakta
elvlaszthatatlanok, mg a vyakti az rzkel-rz-
gondolkod folyamat, ami testi alapon keletkezik, s
az t elem tpllja.

Q: What is the relation between the vyakta and the K: Milyen kapcsolatban van a vyakta s az avyakta?
avyakta?

M: How can there be relation when they are one? All
talk of separation and relation is due to the distorting
and corrupting influence of 'I-am-the-body' idea. The
outer self (vyakti) is merely a projection on the body-
mind of the inner self (vyakta), which again is only
an expression of the Supreme Self (avyakta) which
is all and none.
M: Hogy lehetne kapcsolatrl beszlni, mikor ezek
egyek? Minden szbeszd elklnlsrl s
kapcsolatrl az n-vagyok-a-test idea miatt
bekvetkez torzuls s romls miatt keletkezett. A
kls n (vyakti) csupn a bels n (vyakta)
kivettse a test-elmre, amely viszont csak egy
kifejezdse a Legfelsbb nnek (avyakta), amely
minden, s semmi.

Q: There are teachers who will not talk of the higher
self and lower self. They address the man as if only
the lower self existed. Neither Buddha nor Christ
ever mentioned a higher self. J. Krishnamurti too
fights shy of any mention of the higher self. Why is it
so?
K: Egyes tantk nem beszlnek felsbb s alsbb
nrl. k gy szlnak az emberhez, mintha annak
csak alsbb nje ltezne. Se Buddha, se Krisztus
nem emltette sosem a felsbb nt. J. Krishnamurti
szintn vakodik a felsbb n brmilyen emltstl.
Mirt van ez?

M: How can there be two selves in one body? The 'I
am' is one. There is no higher I-am' and lower I-
am'. All kinds of states of mind are presented to
awareness and there is self-identification with them.
The objects of observation are not what they appear
to be and the attitudes they are met with are not
what they need be. If you think that Buddha, Christ
or Krishnamurti speak to the person, you are
mistaken. They know well that the vyakti, the outer
self, is but a shadow of the vyakta, the inner self,
and they address and admonish the vyakta only.
They tell him to give attention to the outer self, to
guide and help it, to feel responsible for it; in short,
to be fully aware of it. Awareness comes from the
Supreme and pervades the inner self; the so-called
M: Hogy lehetne kt n egy testben? Az n vagyok
egy. Nincs felsbb n-vagyok s alsbb n-
vagyok. Mindenfle elme llapot tudatossgknt
jelenik meg, s fennll a velk val n-azonossg. A
megfigyels objektumai nem azok, aminek lenni
ltszanak, s a velk kapcsolatos magatarts nem
az, amire azoknak szksge van. Ha te gy
gondolod, hogy Buddha, Krisztus vagy Krishnamurti
a szemlyhez szl, akkor tvedsz. k jl tudjk,
hogy a vyakti, a kls n, csupn rnyka a vyakta-
nak, a bels nnek, s k a vyakta-t szltjk meg,
s ltjk el csak j tanccsal. Azt mondjk neki,
fordtsa figyelmt a kls nre, vezesse s segtse,
rezzen rte felelssget; rviden, legyen neki teljes
tudatban. A tudatossg a Legfelsbbtl jn, s

272
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
outer self is only that part of one's being of which
one is not aware. One may be conscious, for every
being is conscious, but one is not aware. What is
included in awareness becomes the inner and
partakes of the inner. You may put it differently: the
body defines the outer self, consciousness the inner,
and in pure awareness the Supreme is contacted.
Q: You said the body defines the outer self. Since
you have a body, do you have also an outer self?
M: I would, were I attached to the body and take it to M: Ha lenne, akkor a testhez ktdnk, s azt
be myself.
Q: But you are aware of it and attend to its needs.
M: The contrary is nearer to truth -- the body knows
me and is aware of my needs. But neither is really
so. This body appears in your mind; in my mind
nothing is.
Q: Do you mean to say you are quite unconscious of K: Azt akarod mondani, hogy egyltaln nem vagy
having a body? tudatban, hogy tested van?
M: On the contrary, I am conscious of not having a
body.
Q: I see you smoking.
M: Exactly so. You see me smoking. Find out for
yourself how did you come to see me smoking, and
you will easily realise that it is your 'I-am-the-body'
state of mind that is responsible for this 'I-see-you-
smoking' idea.
Q: There is the body and there is myself. I know the
body. Apart from it, what am l?
M: There is no 'I' apart from the body, nor the world.
The three appear and disappear together. At the
root is the sense 'I am'. Go beyond it. The idea: 'I-
am-not-the-body' is merely an antidote to the idea 'I-
am-the-body' which is false. What is that 'I am?
Unless you know yourself, what else can you know?
Q: From what you say I conclude that without the
body there can be no liberation. If the idea: 'I-am-
not-the-body' leads to liberation, the presence of the
body is essential.
M: Quite right. Without the body, how can the idea:
I-am-not-the-body' come into being? The idea I-am-
free' is as false as the idea 'I-am-in-bondage'. Find
out the I am' common to both and go beyond.
273
thatja a bels nt; az gynevezett kls n csak
azon rsze az ember ltnek, amelynek az ember
nincs tudatban. Az ember tudatos lehet, mivel
minden lny tudatos, de az ember nem tudat. Ami a
tudatossgban foglaltatik, a belsv vlik, s
rszv vlik a belsnek. Lehet, hogy te mskpp
fejezed ki: a test meghatrozza a kls, a
tudatossg a bels nt, s a tiszta tudatossg a
Legfelsbbel ll kapcsolatban.
K: Azt mondtad, a test hatrozza meg a kls nt.
Ha tested van, akkor kls ned is van?
nmagamnak tartanm.
K: De tudatban vagy, s gondoskodsz
szksgleteirl.
M: Az ellenkezje ll kzelebb az igazsghoz a
testnek van tudomsa rlam, s van tudatban a
szksgleteimnek. De valjban egyik sem igaz. Ez
a test a te elmdben megjelenik; az n elmmben
semmi sincs.
M: Ellenkezleg, tudatban vagyok, hogy nincs
testem.
K: Ltom, dohnyzol.
M: Pontosan fogalmazol. Ltod, hogy dohnyzom.
Dertsd ki, hogy jutottl el addig, hogy dohnyozni
ltsz, s knnyedn fel fogod ismerni, hogy a te n-
vagyok-a-test elmellapotod az, amely ezrt a
ltlak-tged-dohnyozni idert felels.
K: Van a test, s van az nmagam. Tudomsom van
a testrl. Ezen kvl, mi vagyok n?
M: Nincs a testtl, sem a vilgtl fggetlenn.
Mindhrman egytt jelennek meg, s egytt tnnek
el. A gykerknl az n vagyok rzse. Lpj tl
rajta. Az n-nem-a-test-vagyok idea pusztn
ellenmrge az n-a-test-vagyok-nak, amely hamis.
Mi az n vagyok? nmagad ismerete kivtelvel,
mi egyebet ismerhetnl?
K: Amit mondasz, abbl azt a kvetkeztetst tudom
levonni, hogy a test nlkl nem lehetsges a
megszabaduls. Ha az n-nem-a-test-vagyok idea
megszabadulshoz vezet, akkor a test jelenlte
nlklzhetetlen.
M: Nagyszer. A test nlkl hogy szlethetne meg
az n-nem-a-test-vagyok idea? Az n-szabad-
vagyok idea ugyangy hamis, mint az n-rab-
vagyok idea. Fedezd fel a mindkettben kzs n
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: All is a dream only.
M: All are mere words, of what use are they to you?
You are entangled in the web of verbal definitions
and formulations. Go beyond your concepts and
ideas; in the silence of desire and thought the truth
is found.
Q: One has to remember not to remember. What a
task.
M: It cannot be done, of course. It must happen. But
it does happen when you truly see the need of it.
Again, earnestness is the golden key.
Q: At the back of my mind there is a hum going on
all the time. Numerous weak thoughts swarm and
buzz and this shapeless cloud is always with me. Is
it the same with you? What is at the back of your
mind?
M: Where there is no mind, there is no back to it. I
am all front, no back. The void speaks, the void
remains.
Q: Is there no memory left?
M: No memory of past pleasure or pain is left. Each
moment is newly born.
Q: Without memory you cannot be conscious.
M: Of course I am conscious, and fully aware of it. I
am not a block of wood. Compare consciousness
and its content to a cloud. You are inside the cloud,
while I look at. You are lost in it, hardly able to see
the tips of your fingers, while I see the cloud and
many other clouds and the blue sky too and the sun,
the moon, the stars. Reality is one for both of us, but
for you it is a prison and for me it is a home.
Q: You spoke of the person (vyakti), the witness
(vyakta) and the Supreme (avyakta). Which comes
first?
M: In the Supreme the witness appears. The witness
creates the person and thinks itself as separate from
it. The witness sees that the person appears in
consciousness which again appears in the witness.
This realisation of the basic unity is the working of
the Supreme. It is the power behind the witness, the
source from which all flows. It cannot be contacted,
unless there is unity and love and mutual help
between the person and the witness, unless the
274
vagyok-ot, s lpj tl rajta.
K: Mindez lom csupn.
M: Mindezek szavak csupn, mi hasznuk bellk?
Bele vagy gabalyodva a verblis defincik s
szablyok hljba. Lpj tl fogalmaidon s
ideidon; az igazsg a vgy s a gondolat
csendjben tallhat.
K: Az embernek emlkeznie kell r, hogy ne
emlkezzen. Micsoda feladat.
M: Termszetesen, ezt nem lehet csinlni. Ennek
trtnnie kell. De mihelyst valban ltod, hogy
szksg van r, megtrtnik. Ismtlem, a komolysg
az aranykulcs.
K: Az elmm htterben folyamatos a zsongs. A
szmtalan ertlen, hemzseg s fecseg gondolat
egy alaktalan felht alkotva llandan velem van.
Veled is ugyanez a helyzet? Mi van az elmd
mlyn?
M: Ha nincs elme, akkor httere sincs. n teljesen
ell vagyok, nem htul. Az ressg beszl, az
ressg fennmarad.
K: Semmilyen emlked sem maradt?
M: rmnek vagy fjdalomnak semmilyen mltbeli
emlke nem maradt. Minden pillanat frissen
szletett.
K: Emlkezet nlkl nem lehetsz tudatos.
M: Termszetesen tudatos vagyok, s ennek
tkletesen tudatban vagyok. Nem vagyok
fakocka. A tudatossg s annak tartalma egy
felhhz hasonlthat. Te a belsejben vagy a
felhnek, mg n kvlrl szemllem azt. Te
belevesztl, alig vagy kpes elltni az ujjad hegyig,
mg n ltom a felht, s sok ms felht, s a kk
eget is, s a napot, a holdat, a csillagokat. A valsg
mindkettnk szmra ugyanaz, de a te szmodra
brtn, az n szmomra pedig otthon.
K: Beszltl a szemlyrl (vyakti), a tanrl (vyakta),
s a Legfelsbbrl (avyakta). Melyik van elbb?
M: A Legfelsbben jelenik meg a tan. A tan
teremti meg a szemlyt, s nmagt attl
klnbznek gondolja. A tan ltja, amint a
szemly megjelenik tudatossgban, amely ismt
megjelenik a tanban. A Legfelsbb ennek az
alapvet egysgnek a megvalstsn munklkodik.
Ez a tan mgtt lv er, a forrs, amelybl
minden ered. Nem kerlhetsz vele kapcsolatba,
csak ha egysg, szeretet, s klcsns segtsg van
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
doing is in harmony with the being and the knowing.
The Supreme is both the source and the fruit of such
harmony. As I talk to you, I am in the state of
detached but affectionate awareness (turiya). When
this awareness turns upon itself, you may call it the
Supreme State, (turiyatita). But the fundamental
reality is beyond awareness, beyond the three states
of becoming, being and not-being.
Q: How is it that here my mind is engaged in high
topics and finds dwelling on them easy and
pleasant. When I return home I find myself forgetting
all l have learnt here, worrying and fretting, unable to
remember my real nature even for a moment. What
may be the cause?
M: It is your childishness you are returning to. You
are not fully grown up; there are levels left
undeveloped because unattended. Just give full
attention to what in you is crude and primitive,
unreasonable and unkind, altogether childish, and
you will ripen. It is the maturity of heart and mind
that is essential. It comes effortlessly when the main
obstacle is removed -- inattention, unawareness. In
awareness you grow.
63. Notion of Doership is Bondage
Questioner: We have been staying at the Satya Sai
Baba Ashram for some time. We have also spent
two months at Sri Ramanashram at Tiruvannamalai.
Now we are on our way back to the United States.
Maharaj: Did India cause any change in you?
Q: We feel we have shed our burden. Sri Satya Sai
Baba told us to leave everything to him and just live
from day to day as righteously as possible. 'Be good
and leave the rest to me', he used to tell us.
M: What were you doing at the Sri Ramanashram?
Q: We were going on with the mantra given to us by
the Guru. We also did some meditation. There was
not much of thinking or study; we were just trying to
keep quiet. We are on the bhakti path and rather
poor in philosophy. We have not much to think about
-- just trust our Guru and live our lives.
M: Most of the bhaktas trust their Guru only as long
as all is well with them. When troubles come, they
275
a szemly s a tan kztt, csak, ha harmonikus
egyttmkds van a lt s a tuds kztt. A
Legfelsbb forrsa, s ugyanakkor gymlcse is
ennek a harmninak. Mikzben itt egymssal
beszlnk a szevtelensg, ugyanakkor a
szeretetteljes tudatossg (turiya) llapotban
vagyok. Ha ez a tudatossg nmagra irnyul, akkor
azt a Legfelsbb llapotnak (turiyatita) nevezheted.
De az alapvet realits tl van a tudatossgon, tl
van a valamiv vls, lt, nemlt hrom llapotn.
K: Hogy lehet, hogy elmm itt elmerl a magasztos
tmkban, s a bennk val idzst knnynek s
lvezetesnek tallja? Mikor hazatrek, gy rzem,
mindent elfelejtettem, amit itt tanultam, idegeskedek
s emsztem magam, nem vagyok kpes emlkezni
valdi termszetemre mg egy pillanatra sem. Mi
lehet ennek az oka?
M: A gyerekessged visszatrse. Nem nttl mg
fel teljesen; egyes szintjeid kifejletlenl maradtak,
mivel elhanyagoltad azokat. Annyit kell tenned
csupn, hogy teljes figyelmet arra irnytod, ami
benned nyers s kezdetleges, oktalan s kegyetlen,
mindent egybe vetve gyermeteg, s meg fogsz rni.
Ennek bekvetkezse minden erfeszts nlkli, a
f akadly a figyelmetlensg, tudatlansg
eltvoltsa utn. A tudatossgban vlsz felntt.
63. A cselekvsg kpzete ktelk
Krdez: Voltunk a Satya Sai Baba Ashramban. Kt
hnapot Tiruvannamalaiban, a Sri
Ramanashramban is eltltttnk. Most megynk
hazafel, az Egyeslt llamokba.
Maharaj: India okozott benned valamilyen
vltozst?
K: gy rezzk, hogy megszabadultunk a
terheinktl. Sri Satya Sai Baba azt mondta, hagyjunk
r minden terhet, s csak ljnk naprl napra olyan
ernyesen, amennyire az lehetsges. Lgy j, s a
tbbit hagyd rm, szokta volt mondani.
M: Mit csinltatok a Sri Ramanashramban?
K: A Guru ltal neknk adott mantrt gyakoroltuk.
Meditltunk is. Nem sokat gondolkodtunk, vagy
tanultunk; csupn arra trekedtnk, hogy csendben
legynk. Mi a bhakti tjn haladunk, s a filozfia
tern meglehetsen gyengk vagyunk. Nem kell,
hogy sokat gondolkodjunk csak hinnnk a
Gurunknak, s lnnk az letnket.
M: A legtbb bhakta csak addig hisz Gurujnak,
amg minden rendben van vele. Amikor valamilyen
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
feel let down and go out in search of another Guru. baj ri ket, becsapottnak rzik magukat, s
elindulnak msik Gurut keresni.

Q: Yes, we were warned against this danger. We
are trying to take the hard along with the soft. The
feeling: 'All is Grace' must be very strong. A sadhu
was walking eastwards, from where a strong wind
started blowing. The sadhu just turned round and
walked west. We hope to live just like that --
adjusting ourselves to circumstances as sent us by
our Guru.
K: Igen, figyelmeztettek minket e veszlyre.
Igyeksznk a kemnyet a lggyal egytt vinni. A
Minden Kegyelem rzsnek nagyon ersnek kell
lennie. Egy sadhu kelet fel gyalogolt, ahonnan ers
szl kezdett fjni. A sadhu csak megfordult, s
nyugat fel ment tovbb. Mi is ppen gy szeretnnk
lni krlmnyekhez igaztva magunkat, ahogy
Gurunk elbocstott bennnket.

M: There is only life. There is nobody who lives a M: Csak let van. Nincs senki, aki li az letet.
life.

Q: That we understand, yet constantly we make K: rtjk mi ezt, mgis llandan a sajt letnket
attempts to live our lives instead of just living. prbljuk lni, ahelyett, hogy lnnk csupn. A
Making plans for the future seems to be an jvre vonatkoz tervek ksztse megrgztt
inveterate habit with us. szoksunknak ltszik.

M: Whether you plan or don't, life goes on. But in life
itself a little whorl arises in the mind, which indulges
in fantasies and imagines itself dominating and
controlling life. Life itself is desireless. But the false
self wants to continue -- pleasantly. Therefore it is
always engaged in ensuring one's continuity. Life is
unafraid and free. As long as you have the idea of
influencing events, liberation is not for you: The very
notion of doership, of being a cause, is bondage.
M: Akr ksztesz tervet, akr nem, az let zajlik
tovbb. Az letben magban azonban az elmben
egy apr rvny keletkezik, amely a fantzijt
tpllja, s nmagt uralkodnak, s az letet
ellenrzse alatt tartnak kpzeli. Maga az let vgy
nlkli. De a hamis n folytatni akarja kellemesen.
Ezrt rkk az ember folyamatossga mellett
elktelezett. Az let flelem nlkli s szabad. Amg
azt kpzeled, hogy befolysolod az esemnyeket,
addig nem vagy szabad: a cselekvsgnek, a
ltezs oknak a fogalma valjban ktttsg.

Q: How can we overcome the duality of the doer and K: Hogyan tudunk gyzedelmeskedni a cselekv s
the done? a cselekvs kettssge felett?

M: Contemplate life as infinite, undivided, ever
present, ever active, until you realise yourself as one
with it. It is not even very difficult, for you will be
returning only to your own natural condition.
Once you realise that all comes from within, that the
world in which you live has not been projected onto
you but by you, your fear comes to an end. Without
this realisation you identify yourself with the
externals, like the body, mind, society, nation,
humanity, even God or the Absolute. But these are
all escapes from fear. It is only when you fully accept
your responsibility for the little world in which you
live and watch the process of its creation,
preservation and destruction, that you may be free
from your imaginary bondage.
M: Tekintsd az letet vgtelen, osztatlan, rkk
jelen lv, rkk aktv valaminek, mg fel nem
ismered, hogy egy vagy vele. Radsul ez nem is
nagyon nehz, mert csupn termszetes
llapotodba fogsz visszatrni.
Amint felismered, hogy minden bellrl ered, hogy a
vilg, amelyben lsz, nem rd kerl vettsre, hanem
ltalad, flelmeid vget rnek. E felismers
hinyban a klssgekkel azonostod magad,
olyanokkal, mint test, elme, trsadalom, llam,
emberisg, st Isten, vagy az Abszolt. De mindez
nem ms, mint a flelem elli menekls. Csak, ha
teljesen felelssget vllalsz azrt a kis vilgrt,
amiben lsz, s megfigyeled annak teremtsi,
megtartsi s puszttsi folyamatt, csak akkor fogsz
megszabadulni kpzeletbeli ktelkeidtl.

Q: Why should I imagine myself so wretched? K: Mirt kell, hogy olyan sznalmasnak kpzeljem
nmagam?

M: You do it by habit only. Change your ways of M: Csupn megszoksbl. Vltoztasd meg
feeling and thinking, take stock of them and examine rzkelsed s gondolkodsod mdjt, vedd
them closely. You are in bondage by inadvertence. szemgyre, vizsgld meg ket kzelrl. Ktelkeid

276
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Attention liberates. You are taking so many things
for granted. Begin to question. The most obvious
things are the most doubtful. Ask yourself such
questions as: Was I really born?' 'Am I really so-
and-so? 'How do I know that I exist? 'Who are my
parents? 'Have they created me, or have I created
them?' 'Must I believe all I am told about myself?'
Who am I, anyhow?'. You have put so much energy
into building a prison for yourself. Now spend as
much on demolishing it. In fact, demolition is easy,
for the false dissolves when it is discovered. All
hangs on the idea 'I am'. Examine it very thoroughly.
It lies at the root of every trouble. It is a sort of skin
that separates you from the reality. The real is both
within and without the skin, but the skin itself is not
real. This 'I am' idea was not born with you. You
could have lived very well without it. It came later
due to your self-identification with the body. It
created an illusion of separation where there was
none. It made you a stranger in your own world and
made the world alien and inimical. Without the sense
of 'I am' life goes on. There are moments when we
are without the sense of 'I am', at peace and happy.
With the return of the 'I am' trouble starts.
oka a figyelmetlensg. A figyelem felszabadt. Oly
sok dolgot tekintesz magtl rtetdnek. Kezdj el
krdezni. A legnyilvnvalbb dolgok a
legbizonytalanabbak. Tgy fel magadnak olyan
krdseket, mint: Valban szlettem?, Valban
ilyen-s-ilyen vagyok?, Honnan tudom, hogy
ltezem?, Kik a szleim?, k hoztak ltre engem,
vagy n ket?, El kell hinnem mindent, amit rlam
mondtak?, Ki vagyok n, klnben is?. Oly sok
energit fektettl bele, hogy brtnt pts nmagad
szmra. Fordts most ugyanennyit a lerombolsra.
Valjban knny lerombolni, mert amint felfeded, a
hamis szertefoszlik. Minden az n vagyok idea
fggvnye. Vizsgld meg azt nagyon alaposan.
Minden baj gykern ott hzdik. Olyan, mint egy
hrtyafle, amely elvlaszt tged a valsgtl. Mind
a hrtyn bell, mind kvl a valsg van, de maga a
hrtya nem valsgos. Ez az n vagyok idea nem
veled szletett. Nagyon jl tudtl volna lni nlkle.
Ksbb alakult ki, a testtel val nazonostsod
miatt. Elklnltsgi illzit hozott ltre ott, ahol az
nem volt. Idegenn tett a sajt vilgodban, s a
vilgot idegenszerv s ellensgess tette. Az n
vagyok rzs nlkl az let megy tovbb. Az n
vagyok rzse nlkli pillanatokban bkben s
boldogsgban vagyunk. Az n vagyok
visszatrsvel elkezddik a szenveds.

Q: How is one to be free from the 'I'-sense? K: Hogy kell megszabadulni az n-rzstl?

M: You must deal with the 'I'-sense if you want to be M: Ha meg akarsz szabadulni az n-rzstl,
free of it. Watch it in operation and at peace, how it foglalkoznod kell vele. Figyeld amikor mkdik, s
starts and when it ceases, what it wants and how it amikor nyugalomban van, ahogyan kezddik, s
gets it, till you see clearly and understand fully. Afterahogyan megsznik, amit akar, s ahogyan elri azt,
all, all the Yogas, whatever their source and mindaddig, amg tisztn nem ltod, s teljesen nem
character, have only one aim: to save you from the rted. Vgl is minden Yognak, brmilyen eredet
calamity of separate existence, of being a s jelleg is az, egyetlen clja van, hogy
meaningless dot in a vast and beautiful picture. kimenektsen tged az elklnlt ltezs
szerencstlen helyzetbl, hogy ne egy hatalmas s
You suffer because you have alienated yourself from gynyr kp egy jelentktelen pontja legyl.
reality and now you seek an escape from this
alienation. You cannot escape from your own Azrt szenvedsz, mert elidegentetted magad a
obsessions. You can only cease nursing them. valsgtl, s most kiutat keresel ebbl az
elidegenlsbl. Nem szkhetsz el sajt
It is because the I am' is false that it wants to knyszerkpzeteid ell. Csak azok tpllst tudod
continue. Reality need not continue -- knowing itself abbahagyni.
indestructible, it is indifferent to the destruction of
forms and expressions. To strengthen, and stabilise Ennek oka, hogy az n vagyok hamis, hogy az fenn
the 'I am' we do all sorts of things -- all in vain, for akar maradni. A valsg nincs szksge a
the 'I am' is being rebuilt from moment to moment. It fennmaradsra elpusztthatatlannak tudvn magt
is unceasing work and the only radical solution is to kzmbs a formk s megnyilvnulsok pusztulsa
dissolve the separative sense of 'I am such-and- irnt. Az n vagyok megersts s stabilizlsa
such person' once and for good. Being remains, but rdekben mindenfle dolgot csinlunk mindet
not self-being. szksgtelenl, mert az n vagyok pillanatrl
pillanatra jrapl. Ez egy szakadatlan mkds, s
az egyetlen radiklis megolds az n ilyen s ilyen
szemly vagyok rzetnek egyszer s mindenkorra
val feloszlatsa. Ami marad a lt, de nem az n-lt.

Q: I have definite spiritual ambitions. Must I not work K: Nekem pontosan meghatrozott spiritulis cljaim

277
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
for their fulfilment?
M: No ambition is spiritual. All ambitions are for the
sake of the 'I am'. If you want to make real progress
you must give up all idea of personal attainment.
The ambitions of the so-called Yogis are
preposterous. A man's desire for a woman is
innocence itself compared to the lusting for an
everlasting personal bliss. The mind is a cheat. The
more pious it seems, the worse the betrayal.
Q: People come to you very often with their worldly
troubles and ask for help. How do you know what to
tell them?
M: I just tell them what comes to my mind at the
moment. I have no standardised procedure in
dealing with people.
Q: You are sure of yourself. But when people come K: Biztos vagy nmagadban. De amikor az emberek
to me for advice, how am I to be sure that my advice tancsrt jnnek hozzm, honnan lehetek biztos,
is right? hogy a tancsaim helyesek?
M: Watch in what state you are, from what level you
talk. If you talk from the mind, you may be wrong. If
you talk from full insight into the situation, with your
own mental habits in abeyance your advice may be
a true response. The main point is to be fully aware
that neither you nor the man in front of you are mere
bodies; If your awareness is clear and full, a mistake
is less probable.
64. Whatever pleases you, Keeps you
Back
Questioner: I am a retired chartered accountant
and my wife is engaged in social work for poor
women. Our son is leaving for the United States and
we came to see him off. We are Panjabis but we live
in Delhi. We have a Guru of the Radha-Soami faith
and we value satsang highly. We feel very fortunate
to be brought here. We have met many holy people
and we are glad to meet one more.
Maharaj: You have met many anchorites and
ascetics, but a fully realised man conscious of his
divinity (swarupa) is hard to find. The saints and
Yogis, by immense efforts and sacrifices, acquire
many miraculous powers and can do much good in
the way of helping people and inspiring faith, yet it
does not make them perfect. It is not a way to
reality, but merely an enrichment of the false. All
278
vannak. Nem kell, hogy azok beteljestsrt
dolgozzak?
M: Semmifle cl nem spiritulis. Minden cl az n
vagyok rdekt szolglja. Ha valdi haladst
kvnsz elrni, fel kell adnod a szemlyes
megvalstssal kapcsolatos minden idet. Az
gynevezett Yogik cljai ostobk. A frfi n irnti
vgya maga az rtatlansg, az rkk tart
szemlyes boldogsg irnti szenvedlyes
vgyakozshoz kpest. Az elme egy csal. Minl
jmborabbnak ltszik, annl inkbb elrul.
K: Az emberek nagyon gyakran fordulnak hozzd
vilgi gondjaikkal, s a segtsgedet krik. Honnan
tudod, hogy mit mondj nekik?
M: n csak azt mondom nekik, ami abban a
pillanatban az eszembe jut. Nem rendelkezem
semmifle szabvnyos eljrssal az emberekkel
val foglalkozssal kapcsolatban.
M: Figyeld meg, milyen llapotban vagy, milyen
szintrl beszlsz. Ha elmbl beszlsz, akkor
hibzhatsz. Ha a szituciba val tkletes intuitv
belts alapjn beszlsz, sajt mentlis habitusod
felfggesztse mellett adsz tancsot, vlaszod igaz
lehet. A leglnyegesebb pont az, hogy teljes
tudatban lgy annak, hogy sem te, sem az eltted
ll ember nem puszta test vagytok; ha
tudatossgod tiszta s teljes, sokkal kisebb a hiba
bekvetkezsnek a valsznsge.
64. Brmi, ami a kedvedre van, az
visszatart
Krdez: n nyugalmazott knyvszakrt vagyok,
felesgem szegny asszonyokrl gondoskod
szocilis munks. Fiunk az Egyeslt llamokban l,
t ltogattuk. Panjabiak vagyunk, de Delhiben lnk.
Radha-Soami hit Gurunk van, s a satsangot
nagyra rtkeljk. gy rezzk, nagyon
szerencssek vagyunk, hogy eljutottunk ide. Sok
szent embert lttunk, s boldogok vagyunk, hogy
mg egyel tallkozhatunk.
Maharaj: Lthattatok sok remett s aszktt, de
teljesen megvalsult, a sajt istenisgnek
(swarupa) tudatban lv embert nehezen tallni. A
szentek s Yogik mrhetetlen erfeszts s
lemonds rn sokfle csodlatos erre tesznek
szert, s sok jt tudnak tenni azltal, hogy segtenek
az embereknek, s inspirljk a hitet, de ez mgsem
teszi ket tkletess. Ez az t nem a valsghoz
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
effort leads to more effort; whatever was built up
must be maintained, whatever was acquired must be
protected against decay or loss. Whatever can be
lost is not really one's own; and what is not your own
of what use can it be to you? In my world nothing is
pushed about, all happens by itself. All existence is
in space and time, limited and temporary. He who
experiences existence is also limited and temporary.
I am not concerned either with 'what exists' or with
'who exists'. I take my stand beyond, where I am
both and neither.
The persons who, after much effort and penance,
have fulfilled their ambitions and secured higher
levels of experience and action, are usually acutely
conscious of their standing; they grade people into
hierarchies, ranging from the lowest non-achiever to
the highest achiever. To me all are equal.
Differences in appearance and expression are there,
but they do not matter. Just as the shape of a gold
ornament does not affect the gold, so does man's
essence remain unaffected. Where this sense of
equality is lacking it means that reality had not been
touched.
Mere knowledge is not enough; the knower must be
known. The Pandits and the Yogis may know many
things, but of what use is mere knowledge when the
self is not known? It will be certainly misused.
Without the knowledge of the knower there can be
no peace.
Q: How does one come to know the knower?
M: I can only tell you what I know from my own
experience. When I met my Guru, he told me: 'You
are not what you take yourself to be. Find out what
you are. Watch the sense 'I am', find your real self'. I
obeyed him, because I trusted him. I did as he told
me. All my spare time I would spend looking at
myself in silence. And what a difference it made, and
how soon. It took me only three years to realise my
true nature. My Guru died soon after I met him, but it
made no difference. I remembered what he told me
and persevered. The fruit of it is here, with me.
Q: What is it?
M: I know myself as I am in reality. I am neither the
body, nor the mind, nor the mental faculties. I am
beyond all these.
279
vezet, csupn a valtlansg gyaraptsa. Minden
erfeszts tovbbi erfesztshez vezet; brmi is
kerljn felptsre, azt fenn kell tartani, brmi is
kerljn megszerzsre, azt vdeni kell a romls
vagy az rtkveszs ellenben. Brmi, ami
elveszthet, az valjban nem a sajtod; s ami
nem a sajtod, annak mi haszna lehet szmodra?
Az n vilgomban semmit nem kell erltetni, minden
magtl trtnik. Minden ltezs id- s trbeli,
korltozott s ideiglenes. A ltezs tapasztalja
szintn korltozott s ideiglenes. Rm nem
vonatkozik sem a mi ltezik, sem a ki ltezik. n
ezeken tl vagyok, ahol mindegyik vagyok s egyik
sem.
Akik ambcija sok erfeszts s nsanyargats
utn beteljeslt, s a tapasztalat s a cselekvs
tern magasabb szintre kerltek, rendszerint ersen
tudatban vannak ennek a helyzetnek; k az
embereket hierarchikba osztjk, a legalacsonyabb
fokon ll nem-megvalsultaktl a legmagasabb
fokozat megvalsultakig. Az n szmomra mind
egyforma. Klnbsgek vannak a megjelensben s
a megnyilvnulsban, de ezek nem szmtanak.
Mikppen az arany dsztrgy alakja sincs hatssal
az aranyra, gy az ember lnyege is rintetlen
marad. Akinl az egyenlsgnek ez az rzete
hinyzik, ez azt jelenti, hogy a valsgot nem
rintette meg.
A puszta tuds nem elegend; a tudt kell ismerni. A
Panditok s a Yogik lehet, hogy sok dolgot tudnak,
de mi haszna a puszta tudsnak, amikor nmagt
nem ismeri? Bizotos, hogy tvesen fogja hasznlni
azt. A tud ismerete nlkl nem lehetsges bke.
K: Hogyan lehet megismerni a tudt?
M: Csak arrl beszlhetek, amit sajt tapasztalatbl
tudok. Els tallkozsunk alkalmval a Gurum azt
mondta nekem: Te nem az vagy, aminek tartod
magad. Fedezd fel, mi vagy. Figyeld az n vagyok
rzst, fedezd fel valdi nmagad. Szt fogadtam
neki, mert bztam benne. gy tettem, ahogy mondta.
Minden szabad idmet csendes nvizsglattal
tltttem. s micsoda vltozs kvetkezett be, s
mily hamar. Kt vig tartott csupn, hogy
felismerjem igazi termszetemet. Gurum meghalt,
rviddel tallkozsunkat kveten, de ez nem
jelentett vltozst. Megjegyeztem, amit mondott
nekem, s rendletlenl kitartottam mellette. A
gymlcse itt van, velem.
K: Mi az?
M: Annak ismerem nmagam, ami valjban
vagyok. Sem a test, sem az elme, sem a szellemi
kpessgek nem n vagyok. Mindezeket
meghaladtam.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: Are you just nothing?
M: Come on, be reasonable. Of course I am, most M: Ugyan mr, gondolkodj sszeren.
tangibly. Only I am not what you may think me to be. Termszetesen vagyok, a legkzzelfoghatbb
This tells you all. mdon. Csak nem az vagyok, aminek gondolsz.
Ezzel mindent elmondtam.
Q: It tells me nothing.
M: Because it cannot be told. You must gain your
own experience. You are accustomed to deal with
things, physical and mental. I am not a thing, nor are
you. We are neither matter nor energy, neither body
nor mind. Once you have a glimpse of your own
being, you will not find me difficult to understand.
We believe in so many things on hearsay. We
believe in distant lands and people, in heavens and
hells, in gods and goddesses, because we were
told. Similarly, we were told about ourselves, our
parents, name, position, duties and so on. We never
cared to verify. The way to truth lies through the
destruction of the false. To destroy the false, you
must question your most inveterate beliefs. Of these
the idea that you are the body is the worst. With the
body comes the world, with the world -- God, who is
supposed to have created the world and thus it
starts -- fears, religions, prayers, sacrifices, all sorts
of systems -- all to protect and support the child-
man, frightened out of his wits by monsters of his
own making. Realise that what you are cannot be
born nor die and with the fear gone all suffering
ends.
What the mind invents, the mind destroys. But the
real is not invented and cannot be destroyed. Hold
on to that over which the mind has no power. What I
am telling you about is neither in the past nor in the
future. Nor is it in the daily life as it flows in the now.
It is timeless and the total timelessness of it is
beyond the mind. My Guru and his words: 'You are
myself' are timelessly with me. In the beginning I had
to fix my mind on them, but now it has become
natural and easy. The point when the mind accepts
the words of the Guru as true and lives by them
spontaneously and in every detail of daily life is the
threshold of realisation. In a way it is salvation by
faith, but the faith must be intense and lasting.
However, you must not think that faith itself is
enough. Faith expressed in action is a sure means
to realisation. Of all the means it is the most
effective. There are teachers who deny faith and
trust reason only. Actually it is not faith they deny,
but blind beliefs. Faith is not blind. It is the
willingness to try.
280
K: Semmi vagy csupn?
K: Nekem semmit sem mond.
M: Mert nem mondhat. Meg kell szerezned a sajt
tapasztalataidat. Ahhot szoktl, hogy fizikai s
mentlis dolgokkal bnj. n nem vagyok dolog, s te
sem. Nem vagyunk sem anyag, sem energia, sem
test, sem elme. Ha vetnl egy pillantst sajt
ltezsedre, nem tallnd nehznek, hogy megrts
engem.
Elhisznk oly sok szbeszdet. Hisznk tvoli
orszgokban s emberekben, mennyorszgokban
s poklokban, istenekben s istennkben, mert
hallottunk rluk. Hasonlkppen, hallottunk sajt
magunkrl, szleinkrl, nvrl, pozcirl,
ktelessgekrl s gy tovbb. Soha nem
foglalkoztunk azzal, hogy ellenrizzk. Az
igazsghoz a hamis lerombolsnak tjn juthatunk.
Ahhoz, hogy leromobold a hamisat, meg kell
krdjelezned legmegcsontosodottabb hiteidet.
Ezek kztt a legrosszabb idea, hogy te a test vagy.
A testtel jn a vilg, a vilggal Isten, aki
felttezetten a vilgot teremtette, s ezzel
beindulnak a flelmek, vallsok, imdsgok,
ldozatok, mindenfle rendszerek mindegyik a
gyerek-embert vdelmezi s tmogatja, hallra
rmisztve t a sajt maga ltal ksztett szrnyekkel.
Ismerd fel, hogy ami vagy, nem tud megszletni,
sem meghalni, s a flelem megsznsvel minden
szenveds vget r.
Amit az elme kitall, azt az elme semmisti meg. De
a valsg nem kitallt, s nem lehet
megsemmisteni. Ragaszkodj ahhoz, ami fltt az
elmnek nincs hatalma. Amirl beszlek, az nem a
mltban van, sem a jvben. Sem a mostban foly
napi letben. Idtlen, s totlis idtlensge
meghaladja az elmt. Gurum, s szavai: te sajt
magam vagy, idtlenl velem vannak. Kezdetben
rgzteni kellett az elmmet ezekre, de mostanra
knnyv, s termszetess vlt. A pont, amikor az
elme igaznak fogadja el a Guru szavait, s a szerint
l, spontn mdon, s a napi let minden rszlett
tekintve, a valsg kszbe. Bizonyos mdon ez hit
ltal val dvzts, de a hit ers s tarts kell, hogy
legyen.
Nem szabad, hogy azt hidd azonban, hogy
magban a hit elegend. A cselekvsben
kifejezd hit a biztos eszkze a megvalsulsnak.
Minden eszkz kzl ez a leghatkonyabb. Vannak
tantk, akik tagadjk, hogy hit s bizalom egyedl
eredmnyre vezethet. k nem a hitet utastjk el
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: We were told that of all forms of spiritual
practices the practice of the attitude of a mere
witness is the most efficacious. How does it
compare with faith?
M: The witness attitude is also faith; it is faith in
oneself. You believe that you are not what you
experience and you look at everything as from a
distance. There is no effort in witnessing. You
understand that you are the witness only and the
understanding acts. You need nothing more, just
remember that you are the witness only. If in the
state of witnessing you ask yourself: 'Who am I?',
the answer comes at once, though it is wordless and
silent. Cease to be the object and become the
subject of all that happens; once having turned
within, you will find yourself beyond the subject.
When you have found yourself, you will find that you
are also beyond the object, that both the subject and
the object exist in you, but you are neither.
Q: You speak of the mind, of the witnessing
consciousness beyond the mind and of the
Supreme, which is beyond awareness. Do you mean
to say that even awareness is not real?
M: As long as you deal in terms: real -- unreal;
awareness is the only reality that can be. But the
Supreme is beyond all distinctions and to it the term
'real' does not apply, for in it all is real and, therefore,
need not be labelled as such. It is the very source of
reality, it imparts reality to whatever it touches. It just
cannot be understood through words. Even a direct
experience, however sublime, merely bears
testimony, nothing more.
Q: But who creates the world?
M: The Universal Mind (chidakash) makes and
unmakes everything. The Supreme (paramakash)
imparts reality to whatever comes into being. To say
that it is the universal love may be the nearest we
can come to it in words. Just like love it makes
everything real, beautiful, desirable.
Q: Why desirable?
M: Why not? Wherefrom come all the powerful
attractions that make all created things respond to
each other, that bring people together, if not from the
Supreme? Shun not desire; see only that it flows into
the right channels. Without desire you are dead. But
281
valjban, hanem a vakhitet. A hit nem vak. A hit a
megtapasztalsra val hajlandsg.
K: Azt hallottuk, hogy a spiritulis gyakorlatok kztt
a puszta tanknt val viselkeds gyakorlata a
legeredmnyesebb. Hogyan vethet ez ssze a
hittel?
M: A tanknt viselkeds is hit, hit nmagadban.
Hiszed, hogy nem az vagy, amit tapasztalsz, s
mindent egy bizonyos tvolsgbl szemllsz. A
tansgban nincs erfeszts. Megrted, hogy te
csak a tan vagy, s a cselekvsek megrtje.
Nincs szksged semmi tbbre, csak arra, hogy
emlkezz, te csak tan vagy. Ha a tansg
llapotban megkrdezed magadtl: Ki vagyok
n?, a vlasz azonnal megrkezik, mbr az
szavakba nem nthet, s hangtalan. Hagyd abba,
hogy az objektum lgy, s vlj a szubjektumv
mindennek, ami trtnik; mihelyt befel fordulsz,
meg fogod nmagadat tallni a szubjektum mgtt.
Amikor megtalltad nmagad, gy fogod tallni,
hogy az objektumon tl is vagy, hogy mind a
szubjektum, mind az objektum benned vannak, de te
egyik sem vagy.
K: Beszlsz az elmrl, az elmt meghalad tan
tudatossgrl, s a tudatossgot meghalad
Legfelsbbrl. gy rted, hogy mg a tudatossg
sem valdi?
M: Mikzben a valdivaltlan terminusaiban
gondolkozol, a tudatossg az egyetlen valsg, ami
ltezhet. De a Legfelsbb meghalad minden
megklnbztetst, s r a valdi kifejezs nem
alkalmazhat, mert benne minden valdi, s ezrt
nem megcmkzhet, mint olyan. Valjban az
igazi forrsa a valdinak, amely mindent valsgban
rszest, amit megrint. Csakhogy nem rthet meg
szavakon keresztl. Mg a kzvetlen tapasztalat is,
legyen az brmilyen magasztos, bizonysgot hordoz
csupn, semmi tbbet.
K: De ki teremti a vilgot?
M: Az Univerzlis Elme (chidakash) a teremtje s
puszttja mindennek. A Legfelsbb (paramakash)
rszest valsgban mindent, ami ltrejn. Azt
mondhatni, az univerzlis szeretethez llhat
legkzelebb, amelyet szavakba nthetnk. pp, mint
a szeretet, mindent valdiv, szpp, kvnatoss
tesz.
K: Mirt pont kvnatoss?
M: Mirt ne? Azok az erteljes vonzsok, amelyek
miatt a teremtett dolgok egymsra hatssal vannak,
amelyek sszehozzk az embereket, honnan
szrmaznak ha nem a Legfelsbbtl? Ne kerld a
vgyakat, csak arra figyelj, hogy azok a helyes
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
with low desires you are a ghost.
Q: What is the experience which comes nearest to
the Supreme?
M: Immense peace and boundless love. Realise that
whatever there is true, noble and beautiful in the
universe, it all comes from you, that you yourself are
at the source of it. The gods and goddesses that
supervise the world may be most wonderful and
glorious beings; yet they are like the gorgeously
dressed servants who proclaim the power and the
riches of their master.
Q: How does one reach the Supreme State?
M: By renouncing all lesser desires. As long as you
are pleased with the lesser, you cannot have the
highest. Whatever pleases you, keeps you back.
Until you realise the unsatisfactoriness of everything,
its transiency and limitation, and collect your
energies in one great longing, even the first step is
not made. On the other hand, the integrity of the
desire for the Supreme is by itself a call from the
Supreme. Nothing, physical or mental, can give you
freedom. You are free once you understand that
your bondage is of your own making and you cease
forging the chains that bind you.
Q: How does one find the faith in a Guru?
M: To find the Guru and also the trust in him is rare
luck. It does not happen often.
Q: Is it destiny that ordains?
M: Calling it destiny explains little. When it happens
you cannot say why it happens and you merely
cover up your ignorance by calling it karma or
Grace, or the Will of God.
Q: Krishnamurti says that Guru is not needed.
M: Somebody must tell you about the Supreme
Reality and the way that leads to it. Krishnamurti is
doing nothing else. In a way he is right -- most of the
so-called disciples do not trust their Gurus; they
disobey them and finally abandon them. For such
disciples it would have been infinitely better if they
had no Guru at all and just looked within for
guidance. To find a living Guru is a rare opportunity
and a great responsibility. One should not treat
these matters lightly. You people are out to buy
yourself the heaven and you imagine that the Guru
will supply it for a price. You seek to strike a bargain
282
csatornkban ramoljanak. Vgyak nlkl halott
vagy. De alacsony intenzits vgyakkal ksrtet
vagy.
K: Mi az a tapasztalat, amely a legjobban hasonlt a
Legfelsbbhz?
M: A mrhetetlen bke, s hatrtalan szeretet.
Ismerd fel, hogy brmi igaz, nemes s szp a
vilgban, az mind belled szrmazik, mert te magad
vagy azok forrsa. Lehet, hogy a vilgot felgyel
istenek s istennk a legcsodlatosabb s
legdicssgesebb lnyek, mgis, olyanok, mint a
pazar ltzk szolgk, akik kinyilatkoztatjk
mesterk hatalmt, s gazdagsgt.
K: Hogyan lehet elrni a Legfelsbb llapotot?
M: A kisebb vgyakrl val lemondssal. Amg
megelgszel a kisebbel, nem lehet a tid a nagyobb.
Brmi, ami kedvedre val, visszatart tged. Amg
nem bredsz r hogy semmi nem kielgt, minden
mlkony s korltozott, s nem gyjtd ssze az
energiidat egyetlen nagy vgydsban, addig mg
csak az els lpst sem tetted meg. Msfell,
nmagban vve a Legfelsbbre irnyul vgy
teljessge, a Legfelsbbtl ered hvs. Semmilyen
fizikai vagy mentlis dolog nem tudja megadni
szmodra a szabadsgot. Szabad vagy, amint
megrted, hogy ktelkeidet sajt magad kszted,
s felhagysz a lncok kovcsolsval, amelyek
gzsbaktnek.
K: Hogyan lehet elrni, hogy higgyek egy Guruban?
M: Megtallni a Gurut, ugyanakkor a bel vetett hitet
is, ritka szerencse. Nem tl gyakori.
K: A sors rendelse?
M: Sorsnak nevezni ezt, gyenge magyarzat.
Amikor megtrtnik, nem tudod megmondani, mirt
trtnik, s csupn tudatlansgodat palstolod, ha
karmnak, Kegyelemnek, vagy Isten Akaratnak
nevezed.
K: Krishnamurti azt mondja, nincs szksg Gurura.
M: Valaki kell, hogy beszljen neked a Legfelsbb
Valsgrl s a hozzvezet trl. Krishnamurti
mst sem csinl. Bizonyos tekintetben igazat mond
a legtbb gynevezett tantvny nem hisz a
Gurujban, nem engedelmeskedik neki, s vgl
elhagyja t. Az ilyen tantvnyoknak sokkal jobb
lenne, ha egyltaln nem lenne Gurujuk, s csak az
tmutatst tanulmnyoznk. l Gurut tallni ritka
lehetsg, s nagy ktelezettsggel jr. Az ember
ezeket a dolgokat nem tudja knnyen kezelni. Ti azt
hiszitek, hogy a mennyorszg megvsrolhat, s
azt kpzelitek, hogy a Guru leszlltja azt egy
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
by offering little but asking much. You cheat nobody
except yourselves.
Q: You were told by your Guru that you are the
Supreme and you trusted him and acted on it. What
gave you this trust?
M: Say, I was just reasonable. It would have been
foolish to distrust him. What interest could he
possibly have in misleading me?
Q: You told a questioner that we are the same, that
we are equals. I cannot believe it. Since I do not
believe it, of what use is your statement to me?
M: Your disbelief does not matter. My words are true M: A hitetlensged lnyegtelen. A szavaim igazak,
and they will do their work. This is the beauty of s meg fogjk tenni a maguk dolgt. Ez a szpsge
noble company (satsang). a nemes trsasgnak (satsang).
Q: Just sitting near you can it be considered spiritual K: Csak a kzeledben ls is spiritulis gyakorlatnak
practice?
M: Of course. The river of life is flowing. Some of its
water is here, but so much of it has already reached
its goal. You know only the present. I see much
further into the past and future, into what you are
and what you can be. I cannot but see you as
myself. It is in the very nature of love to see no
difference.
Q: How can I come to see myself as you see me?
M: It is enough if you do not imagine yourself to be
the body. It is the 'I-am-the-body' idea that is so
calamitous. It blinds you completely to your real
nature. Even for a moment do not think that you are
the body. Give yourself no name, no shape. In the
darkness and the silence reality is found.
Q: Must not I think with some conviction that I am
not the body? Where am I to find such conviction?
M: Behave as if you were fully convinced and the
confidence will come. What is the use of mere
words? A formula, a mental pattern will not help you.
But unselfish action, free from all concern with the
body and its interests will carry you into the very
heart of Reality.
Q: Where am I to get the courage to act without
conviction?
M: Love will give you the courage. When you meet
somebody wholly admirable, love-worthy, sublime,
your love and admiration will give you the urge to act
nobly.
283
bizonyos sszegrt. J zletre trekedve keveset
knltok, de sokat krtek. Senkit nem csaptok be,
magatokat kivve.
K: Elmondsod szerint Gurud azt mondta neked, te
vagy a Legfelsbb, s te hittl neki, s e szerint
cselekedtl. Mit adott neked ez a hit?
M: Nzd, n csupn sszeren cselekedtem.
rltsg lett volna nem hinni neki. Mi rdeke
fzdtt volna hozz, hogy flrevezessen?
K: Az egyik krdeznek azt mondtad, hogy
azonosak vagyunk, hogy egyenlek vagyunk. n
nem tudok hinni ebben. s mivel nem hiszek benne,
mi haszna szmomra a kijelentsednek?
tekinthet?
M: Termszetesen. Az let folyja folyik. Viznek
egyik rsze itt van, de elg sok mr clba rt. Te
csak a jelent ismered. n sokkal messzebb ltok a
mltba s a jvbe, abba, ami vagy, s ami lehetsz.
n nem tudlak msknt ltni, csak nmagamknt. A
szeretet valdi termszete, hogy nem lt
klnbsget.
K: Mi kell ahhoz, hogy gy lssam magam, ahogy te
ltsz engem?
M: Elg, ha nem kpzeled magad a testnek. A sok
szerencstlensget az n-vagyok-a-test idea
okozza. Mg egy pillanatra se gondold, hogy a test
vagy. Ne adj magadnak se nevet, se formt. A
sttsgben s a csendben tallhat a valsg.
K: Nem kell bizonytanom valamikppen, hogy nem
a test vagyok? Hol kell ilyen bizonytkot keresnem?
M: Viselkedj gy, mintha tkletesen meg lennl
gyzdve, s a bizonytk jnni fog. Mi haszna
puszta szavaknak? Formulk, mentlis mintk nem
segtenek rajtad. De a testtel val minden trdstl,
s annak fontossgtl mentes nzetlen cselekedet
el fog juttatni a Valsg legkzepbe.
K: Honnan vegyem a btorsgot, hogy bizonytk
nlkl cselekedjek?
M: A szeretet fog neked btorsgot adni. Amikor
tallkozol valakivel, aki teljes mrtkben csodlatra
s szeretetre mlt, fensges, akkor szereteted s
csodlatod ad sztnzst szmodra a nemes
cselekedethez.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: Not everybody knows to admire the admirable.
Most of the people are totally insensitive.
M: Life will make them appreciate. The very weight
of accumulated experience will give them eyes to
see. When you meet a worthy man, you will love and
trust him and follow his advice. This is the role of the
realised people -- to set an example of perfection for
others to admire and love. Beauty of life and
character is a tremendous contribution to the
common good.
Q: Must we not suffer to grow?
M: It is enough to know that there is suffering, that
the world suffers. By themselves neither pleasure
nor pain enlighten. Only understanding does. Once
you have grasped the truth that the world is full of
suffering, that to be born is a calamity, you will find
the urge and the energy to go beyond it. Pleasure
puts you to sleep and pain wakes you up. If you do
not want to suffer, don't go to sleep. You cannot
know yourself through bliss alone, for bliss is your
very nature. You must face the opposite, what you
are not, to find enlightenment.
65. A Quiet Mind is All You Need
Questioner: I am not well. I feel rather weak. What
am I to do?
Maharaj: Who is unwell, you or the body?
Q: My body, of course.
M: Yesterday you felt well. What felt well?
Q: The body.
M: You were glad when the body was well and you
are sad when the body is unwell. Who is glad one
day and sad the next?
Q: The mind.
M: And who knows the variable mind?
Q: The mind.
M: The mind is the knower. Who knows the knower? M: Az elme az ismer. Ki ismeri az ismert?
284
K: Nem mindenki tudja csodlni a csodlatra mltt.
Az emberek tbbsge teljesen rzketlen.
M: Az let majd rzkelv teszi ket. Valjban a
felgylemlett tapasztalat slya fogja kinyitni a
szemket. Amikor egy arra rdemes emberrel
tallkozol, szeretni fogod, hinni fogsz neki, s
kvetni fogod a tancsait. Ez a szerepe a
megvalsult embereknek a tkletessg pldjt
nyjtani a tbbieknek, hogy csodljk s szeressk.
Az let s a karakter szpsge hatalmas
hozzjruls a kzjhoz.
K: Nem kell szenvedni a nvekedshez?
M: Elg azt tudni, hogy van szenveds, hogy a vilg
szenved. nmagban sem az lvezet, sem a
fjdalom nem vilgost meg. Csak a megrts. Amint
megragadtad az igazsgot, hogy a vilg
szenvedssel teli, hogy megszletni
szerencstlensg, meg fogod tallni az sztnzst
s az energit, hogy tllpj rajta. Az lvezet elaltat,
s a fjdalom felbreszt. Ha nem akarsz szenvedni,
ne aludj el. Nem tudod magad egyedl boldogsgon
keresztl megismerni, mert a boldogsg a valdi
termszeted. Szembeslnd kell az ellenttvel,
azzal, ami nem te vagy, hogy megtalld a
megvilgosodst.
65. Csendes elmre van szksged
csupn
Krdez: Nem rzem jl magam. Vagy inkbb
gyenge vagyok. Mit kell tennem?
Maharaj: Ki rzi rosszul magt, te, vagy a test?
K: A testem, termszetesen.
M: Tegnap jl rezted magad. Mi rezte jl magt?
K: A test.
M: rvendtl, mikor a test jl volt, s szomorkodsz,
amikor a test nincs jl. Ki az aki, az egyik nap rl,
s a msikon szomor?
K: Az elme.
M: s ki ismeri a vltoz elmt?
K: Az elme.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: Does not the knower know itself?
M: The mind is discontinuous. Again and again it
blanks out, like in sleep or swoon, or distraction.
There must be something continuous to register
discontinuity.
Q: The mind remembers. This stands for continuity.
M: Memory is always partial, unreliable and
evanescent. It does not explain the strong sense of
identity pervading consciousness, the sense 'I am'.
Find out what is at the root of it.
Q: However deeply I look, I find only the mind. Your
words 'beyond the mind' give me no clue.
M: While looking with the mind, you cannot go
beyond it. To go beyond, you must look away from
the mind and its contents.
Q: In what direction am I to look?
M: All directions are within the mind. I am not asking
you to look in any particular direction. Just look away
from all that happens in your mind and bring it to the
feeling 'I am'. The 'I am' is not a direction. It is the
negation of all direction. Ultimately even the 'I am'
will have to go, for you need not keep on asserting
what is obvious. Bringing the mind to the feeling 'I
am' merely helps in turning the mind away from
everything else.
Q: Where does it all lead me?
M: When the mind is kept away from its
preoccupations, it becomes quiet. If you do not
disturb this quiet and stay in it, you find that it is
permeated with a light and a love you have never
known; and yet you recognise it at once as your own
nature. Once you have passed through this
experience, you will never be the same man again;
the unruly mind may break its peace and obliterate
its vision; but it is bound to return, provided the effort
is sustained; until the day when all bonds are
broken, delusions and attachments end and life
becomes supremely concentrated in the present.
Q: What difference does it make?
M: The mind is no more. There is only love in action. M: Az elme megsznik. Csak cselekv szeretet van.
Q: How shall I recognise this state when I reach it?
M: There will be no fear.
285
K: Nem az ismer ismeri nmagt?
M: Az elme szakaszos mkds. jra s jra
ress vlik, mint pldul az alvs, az juls, vagy
az elmezavar llapotaiban. Kell, hogy legyen valami,
ami folyamatos, ami regisztrlja a folyamatossg
hinyt.
K: Az elme emlkezik. Ez folyamatossgot jelent.
M: Az emlkezet mindig rszleges, megbzhatatlan
s mlkony. Nem magyarzza a tudatossggal
titatott azonossg ers rzst, az n vagyok
rzst. Fedezd fel, hogy ez miben gykerezik.
K: Akrmilyen mlyre nzek, csak az elmt tallom.
Szavaid az elmn tl, nem nyomra vezetek
szmomra.
M: Amg az elmvel nzel, nem tudsz mgje
tekinteni. A mg tekintshez el kell fordulnod az
elmtl, s annak tartalmtl.
K: Milyen irnyba nzzek?
M: Minden irny az elmn bell van. Nem azt krem,
hogy valamilyen konkrt irnyba nzz. Csak fordulj
el mindentl, ami az elmdben trtnik, s brd r,
hogy az n vagyok-ot rezze. Az n vagyok nem
irny. Tagadsa minden irnynak. Vgl, mg az n
vagyok-nak is tvoznia kell, mert nem kell llandan
bizonygatnod, ami nyilvnval. Az elme n vagyok
rzsre brsa pusztn az elmnek a minden mstl
val elfordtst segti.
K: Hov vezet mindez?
M: Az elme az elfoglaltsgaitl eltvolodva
csendess vlik. Ha ezt a csendet nem zavarod
meg s benne maradsz, gy tallod, hogy olyan
fny s szeretet jrja t, amelyet br sohasem
ismertl, mgis azonnal sajt valdi
termszetedknt ismered fel. Amint
megtapasztaltad, mr soha tbb nem leszel
ugyanaz az ember, a fktelen elme sszetrheti
bkjt, s elmoshatja ltomst, de vissza kell
trnie, ha az alkalmazott erfesztst kitart; addig a
napig, mikor minden bilincs szttrik, az illzik s
ktelkek vget rnek, s az let a legteljesebb
mdon a jelenben koncentrldik.
K: Ez milyen klnbsget jelent?
K: Hogy fogom felismerni az llapotot, mikor
elrem?
M: Nem lesz flelem.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: Surrounded by a world full of mysteries and
dangers, how can I remain unafraid?
M: Your own little body too is full of mysteries and
dangers, yet you are not afraid of it, for you take it as
your own. What you do not know is that the entire
universe is your body and you need not be afraid of
it. You may say you have two bodies; the personal
and the universal. The personal comes and goes,
the universal is always with you. The entire creation
is your universal body. You are so blinded by what is
personal, that you do not see the universal. This
blindness will not end by itself -- it must be undone
skilfully and deliberately. When all illusions are
understood and abandoned, you reach the error-free
and perfect state in which all distinctions between
the personal and the universal are no more.
Q: I am a person and therefore limited in space and
time. I occupy little space and last but a few
moments; I cannot even conceive myself to be
eternal and all-pervading.
M: Nevertheless you are. As you dive deep into
yourself in search of your true nature, you will
discover that only your body is small and only your
memory is short; while the vast ocean of life is
yours.
Q: The very words 'I' and 'universal' are
contradictory. One excludes the other.
M: They don't. The sense of identity pervades the
universal. Search and you shall discover the
Universal Person, who is yourself and infinitely
more.
Anyhow, begin by realising that the world is in you,
not you in the world.
Q: How can it be? I am only a part of the world. How K: Hogy lehet ez? n csak rsze vagyok a vilgnak.
can the whole world be contained in the part, except Hogy tudn magban foglalni az egsz vilgot a
by reflection, mirror like? rsz, hacsak nem visszatkrzds ltal keletkezett
tkrzdsknt?
M: What you say is true. Your personal body is a
part in which the whole is wonderfully reflected. But
you have also a universal body. You cannot even
say that you do not know it, because you see and
experience it all the time. Only you call it 'the world'
and are afraid of it.
Q: I feel I know my little body, while the other I do
not know, except through science.
M: Your little body is full of mysteries and wonders
which you do not know. There also science is your
only guide. Both anatomy and astronomy describe
286
K: Rejtlyekkel s veszlyekkel teli vilggal
krlzrva, hogyan tudnk flelem nlkli maradni?
M: A te sajt apr tested is tele van rejtlyekkel s
veszlyekkel, mgsem flsz tlk, mert sajtodnak
tartod azokat. Amit nem tudsz, hogy az egsz
univerzum a te tested, s nem kell flned tle.
Mondhatni kt tested van, a szemlyes s az
univerzlis. A szemlyes jn s megy, az univerzlis
mindig veled van. Az egsz teremts a te univerzlis
tested. Annyira elvakt a szemlyes, hogy nem ltod
az univerzlisat. Ez a vaksg nem fog magtl vget
rni meg kell semmisteni, felkszlten s
szndkosan. Amikor minden illzit megrtettl s
elhagytl, elred a hibtlan s tkletes llapotot,
amelyben a szemlyes s az univerzlis kztt
minden klnbsg megsznik.
K: Szemly vagyok, s ezrt trben s idben
korltozott. Kis helyet foglalok el, s csak pr
pillanatig maradok fenn, mg csak elkpzelni sem
tudom magam rkkvalnak s mindenre
kiterjednek.
M: Mindazonltal, te vagy. Amint mlyen almerlsz
magadba, igaz termszetedet keresve, felfedezed,
hogy csak tested kicsi, s csak emlkezeted rvid;
mikzben tid az let hatrtalan cenja.
K: Az n s az univerzlis szavak valjban
ellentmondsosak. Az egyik kizrja a msikat.
M: Nem teszik. Az azonossg rzse tjrja az
univerzlist. Keresd, s meg fogod tallni az
Univerzlis Szemlyt, aki te magad vagy, s
vgtelenl tbb.
Akrhogyan, kezdd a felismerssel, hogy a vilg
benned van, nem te vagy a vilgban.
M: Igazat mondasz. Szemlyes tested egy rsz,
amelyben az egsz csodlatos mdon tkrzdik.
De van egy univerzlis tested is. Mg csak azt sem
mondhatod, hogy nem tudsz rla, mert ltod, s
tapasztalod, folyamatosan. Csak gy hvod azt,
hogy a vilg, s flsz tle.
K: gy gondolom, kis testemet ismerem, mg a
msikat nem ismerem, hacsak nem a tudomnyok
rvn.
M: Kis tested tele van ltalad nem ismert rejtlyekkel
s csodkkal. A tudomnyok szintn csak segtid.
Mind az anatmia, mind az asztronmia tged rnak
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
you.
Q: Even If I accept your doctrine of the universal
body as a working theory, in what way can I test it
and of what use is it to me?
M: Knowing yourself as the dweller in both the
bodies you will disown nothing. All the universe will
be your concern; every living thing you will love and
help most tenderly and wisely. There will be no clash
of interests between you and others. All exploitation
will cease absolutely. Your every action will be
beneficial, every movement will be a blessing.
Q: It is all very tempting, but how am I to proceed to
realise my universal being?
M: You have two ways: you can give your heart and
mind to self-discovery, or you accept my words on
trust and act accordingly. In other words, either you
become totally self-concerned, or totally un-self-
concerned. It is the word 'totally' that is important.
You must be extreme to reach the Supreme.
Q: How can I aspire to such heights, small and
limited as I am?
M: Realise yourself as the ocean of consciousness
in which all happens. This is not difficult. A little of
attentiveness, of close observation of oneself, and
you will see that no event is outside your
consciousness.
Q: The world is full of events which do not appear in
my consciousness.
M: Even your body is full of events which do not
appear in your consciousness. This does not
prevent you from claiming your body to be your own.
You know the world exactly as you know your body -
- through your senses. It is your mind that has
separated the world outside your skin from the world
inside and put them in opposition. This created fear
and hatred and all the miseries of living.
Q: What I do not follow is what you say about going
beyond consciousness. I understand the words, but I
cannot visualise the experience. After all, you
yourself have said that all experience is in
consciousness.
M: You are right, there can be no experience
beyond consciousness. Yet there is the experience
of just being. There is a state beyond
consciousness, which is not unconscious. Some call
it super-consciousness, or pure consciousness, or
supreme consciousness. It is pure awareness free
287
le.
K: Mg ha munka teriaknt el is fogadom, az
univerzlis testrl szl elmletedet, mi mdon
tudom azt tesztelni, s mi haszna van szmomra?
M: Kt test lakjnak ismerve magad, nem fogsz
tagadni semmit. Az egsz univerzum a te gyedd
vlik; minden l dolgot gyngden, s okosan
szeretni, s segteni fogsz. Nem lesznek rdek
sszetkzsek kzted s msok kztt. Minden
kizskmnyols teljesen vget fog rni. Minden
cselekedeted hasznos, minden lpsed ldsos
lesz.
K: Mindez nagyon csbt, de hogyan bredjek r
univerzlis ltemre?
M: Kt utad lehet: szved s elmd az n-
felfedezsnek szenteled, vagy hitelt adsz
szavaimnak, s annak megfelelen cselekszel. Ms
szval, teljesen n-rdekeltt vlsz, vagy pedig
teljesen n-rdektelenn. Itt a teljesen sz a fontos.
Szlssgess kell vlnod, hogy elrd a
Legfelsbbet.
K: Hogyan vgyakozhatok ilyen magassgokba,
ilyen kicsi s korltoltknt, amilyen vagyok?
M: bredj nmagadra a tudatossg cenjaknt,
amelyben minden megtrtnhet. Ez nem bonyolult.
Egy kis figyelem, nmagad gondos megfigyelse, s
ltni fogod, hogy semmi nem trtnik a te
tudatossgodon kvl.
K: A vilg tele van olyan esemnyekkel, amelyek
nem jelennek meg a tudatossgomban.
M: Mg a tested is tele van olyan esemnyekkel,
amelyek nem jelennek meg a tudatossgodban. Ez
nem gtol meg abban, hogy a testedet a sajtodnak
tartsad. Pontosan gy ismered a vilgot, ahogy a
testedet az rzkszerveken keresztl. Az elmd
az, amely elklntette a brdn kvli vilgot a
bels vilgtl, s ellenttbe lltotta azokat. Ez
teremtette a flelmet s a gylletet, s az let
minden gytrelmt.
K: Nem tudom kvetni, amit a tudatossgon val
tllpsrl mondasz. rtem a szavakat, de nem
tudom vizualizlni a tapasztalatot. Vgl is, te
magad mondtad, hogy minden tapasztalat a
tudatossgban van.
M: Igazad van, tudatossgon tli tapasztalat nem
lehetsges. Mgis, ltezik a puszta ltezs
tapasztalata. Ez egy tudatossgon tli llapot, amely
nem tudattalan. Sokan ezt szuper-tudatossgnak,
tiszta tudatossgnak, vagy legfelsbb
tudatossgnak nevezik. Ez a tiszta tudatossg
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
from the subject object nexus.
Q: I have studied Theosophy and I find nothing
familiar in what you say. I admit Theosophy deals
with manifestation only. It describes the universe
and its inhabitants in great details. It admits many
levels of matter and corresponding levels of
experience, but it does not seem to go beyond.
What you say goes beyond all experience. If it is not
experienceable, why at all talk about it?
M: Consciousness is intermittent, full of gaps. Yet
there is the continuity of identity. What is this sense
of identity due to, if not to something beyond
consciousness?
Q: If I am beyond the mind, how can I change
myself?
M: Where is the need of changing anything? The
mind is changing anyhow all the time. Look at your
mind dispassionately; this is enough to calm it.
When it is quiet, you can go beyond it. Do not keep it
busy all the time. Stop it -- and just be. If you give it
rest, it will settle down and recover its purity and
strength. Constant thinking makes it decay.
Q: If my true being is always with me, how is it that I
am ignorant of it?
M: Because it is very subtle and your mind is gross,
full of gross thoughts and feelings. Calm and clarify
your mind and you will know yourself as you are.
Q: Do I need the mind to know myself?
M: You are beyond the mind, but you know with your
mind. It is obvious that the extent, depth and
character of knowledge depend on what instrument
you use. Improve your instrument and your
knowledge will improve.
Q: To know perfectly I need a perfect mind.
M: A quiet mind is all you need. All else will happen
rightly, once your mind is quiet. As the sun on rising
makes the world active, so does self-awareness
affect changes in the mind. In the light of calm and
steady self-awareness inner energies wake up and
work miracles without any effort on your part.
Q: You mean to say that the greatest work is done
by not working?
288
mentes a szubjektum-objektum kapcsolattl.
K: Teozfit tanultam, s nem tallom ismersnek
egyltaln, amirl beszlsz. Elismerem, hogy a
teozfia csak megnyilvnulsokkal foglalkozik. Az
univerzumot, s lakit nagyon rszletesen lerja.
Elismeri az anyag sok szintjt, s az ezeknek
megfelel tapasztalati szinteket, de ezeken tl nem
megy. Amirl te beszlsz, az minden tapasztalatot
meghalad. Ha nem tapasztalhat, minek egyltaln
beszlni rluk?
M: A tudatossg szakaszos, hzagokkal teli. Az
nazonossgot mgis kontinuits jellemzi. Mitl van
ez az nazonossg rzet, ha nem valami olyantl,
ami tl van a tudatossgon?
K: Ha meghaladtam az elmt, hogyan tudom
megvltoztatni nmagam?
M: Mirt lenne szksg megvltoztatni brmit is? Az
elme valamilyen mdon folyton vltozik. Tekints az
elmdre elfogultsg nlkl; ez elg ahhoz, hogy
lecsillaptsd. Amikor csendes, akkor tl tudsz lpni
rajta. Ne foglalkoztasd llandan. lltsd le s csak
legyl. Ha pihent adsz neki, le fog telepedni, s
visszanyeri tisztasgt s erejt. Az lland
gondolkods meggyngti.
K: Ha igazi ltem mindig velem van, hogy lehet,
hogy nem vagyok tudatban?
M: Mert nagyon finom, elmd pedig durva, tele van
durva gondolatokkal s rzsekkel. Csillaptsd le, s
tiszttsd meg elmdet, s annak fogod ismerni
nmagad, ami vagy.
K: Szksgem van az elmre, hogy ismerjem
nmagam?
M: Te az elmn tl vagy, de az elmddel ismersz.
Nyilvnval, hogy a tuds mrtke, mlysge s
sajtossga attl fgg, hogy milyen eszkzt
hasznlsz. Tedd jobb az eszkzdet, s javulni fog
a tudsod.
K: Tkletes tudshoz tkletes elmre van
szksgem.
M: Mindssze csendes elmre van szksged.
Minden ms hibtlanul megtrtnik, amint elmd
elcsendesl. Ahogy a kel nap mkdsbe hozza a
termszetet, gy hat az n-tudatossg az elme
vltozsnak irnyban. A nyugalom s a szilrd
n-tudatossg fnyben a bels energik
flbrednek, s csodkat mvelnek, anlkl, hogy te
a magad rszrl brmilyen erfesztst tennl.
K: Azt akarod mondani, hogy a legnagyobb munka
nem-dolgozssal vgezhet el?
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
M: Exactly. Do understand that you are destined for
enlightenment. Co-operate with your destiny, don't
go against it, dont thwart it. Allow it to fulfil itself. All
you have to do is to give attention to the obstacles
created by the foolish mind.
66. All Search for Happiness is Misery
Questioner: I have come from England and I am on
my way to Madras. There I shall meet my father and
we shall go by car overland to London. I am to study
psychology, but I do not yet know what I shall do
when I get my degree. I may try industrial
psychology, or psychotherapy. My father is a
general physician, I may follow the same line.
But this does not exhaust my interests. There are
certain questions which do not change with time. I
understand you have some answers to such
questions and this made me come to see you.
Maharaj: I wonder whether I am the right man to
answer your questions. I know little about things and
people. I know only that I am, and that much you
also know. We are equals.
Q: Of course I know that I am. But I do not know
what it means.
M: What you take to be the 'I' in the 'I am' is not you.
To know that you are is natural, to know what you
are is the result of much investigation. You will have
to explore the entire field of consciousness and go
beyond it. For this you must find the right teacher
and create the conditions needed for discovery.
Generally speaking, there are two ways: external
and internal. Either you live with somebody who
knows the Truth and submit yourself entirely to his
guiding and moulding influence, or you seek the
inner guide and follow the inner light wherever it
takes you. In both cases your personal desires and
fears must be disregarded. You learn either by
proximity or by investigation, the passive or the
active way. You either let yourself be carried by the
river of life and love represented by your Guru, or
you make your own efforts, guided by your inner
star. In both cases you must move on, you must be
earnest. Rare are the people who are lucky to find
somebody worthy of trust and love. Most of them
must take the hard way, the way of intelligence and
understanding, of discrimination and detachment
(viveka-vairagya). This is the way open to all.
289
M: Pontosan. rtsd meg, hogy a megvilgosods
sorsod. Mkdj egytt a sorsoddal, ne llj ellen, ne
akadlyozd. Engedd, hogy beteljestse nmagt.
Mindssze annyit kell tenned, hogy figyelmeddel
tnteted ki a bolond elmd ltal ltrehozott
akadlyokat.
66. Minden boldogsg keress
szenveds
Krdez: Anglibl jvk, Madrasba utazom. Ott
majd tallkozom apmmal, s kocsival megynk a
kontinensen t, Londonig. Pszicholgit tanulok, de
mg nem tudom, hogy mit fogok csinlni, miutn
lediplomzom. Taln munkapszicholgival, vagy
pszichoterpival prblkozom. Apm ltalnos
orvos, kvethetem ugyanezt a vonalat is.
De ez nem elgti ki az rdekldsemet. Vannak
krdsek, amelyek nem vltoznak az idvel. Tudom,
hogy vannak vlaszaid az ilyen krdsekre, ez
ksztetett arra, hogy eljjjek hozzd.
Maharaj: Csodlkozom, hogy n vagyok a
megfelel ember, aki megvlaszolja a krdseidet.
Keveset tudok dolgokrl s emberekrl. n csak azt
tudom, hogy n vagyok, s ennyit te is tudsz.
Egyenlk vagyunk.
K: Termszetesen, tudom, hogy n vagyok. De nem
tudom, hogy ez mit jelent.
M: Amit az n vagyok n-jnek gondolsz, az nem
te vagy. Tudni, hogy vagy, termszetes, azt tudni,
hogy mi vagy, sok kutats eredmnye. Fel kell
fedezned a tudatossg teljes terlett, s tl kell
lpned rajta. Ehhez meg kell tallnod a megfelel
tantt, s meg kell teremtened a felfedezshez
szksges feltteleket. Nagy ltalnossgban kt t
van: kls s bels. Vagy olyan valakivel egytt
lsz, aki ismeri az Igazsgot, s teljesen alveted
magad az irnyt, s alakt befolysnak, vagy
megkeresed a bels vezett, s kveted a bels
fnyt, brhov is vezessen tged. Mindkt esetben
semmibe kell venned szemlyes vgyaidat s
flelmeidet. Tanulsz mind az egytt ls, mind a
kutats rvn, vagyis a passzv, vagy az aktv
mdon. Akr az let folyja, s a Gurud ltal
megszemlyestett szeretet ltal viteted magad, akr
te magad teszel erfesztseket, bels csillagod
vezet. Mindkt esetben haladnod kell, komolynak
kell lenned. Ritka szerencss az az ember, aki tall
valakit, aki mlt a bizalmra, s szeretetre. A
legtbbjknek a nehz ton kell haladnia, a belts
s megrts, a megklnbztets, s prtatlansg
(viveka-vairagya) tjn.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: I am lucky to have come here: though I am
leaving tomorrow, one talk with you may affect my
entire life.
M: Yes, once you say 'I want to find Truth', all your
life will be deeply affected by it. All your mental and
physical habits, feelings and emotions, desires and
fears, plans and decisions will undergo a most
radical transformation.
Q: Once I have made up my mind to find The
Reality, what do I do next?
M: It depends on your temperament. If you are
earnest, whatever way you choose will take you to
your goal. It is the earnestness that is the decisive
factor.
Q: What is the source of earnestness?
M: It is the homing instinct, which makes the bird
return to its nest and the fish to the mountain stream
where it was born. The seed returns to the earth,
when the fruit is ripe. Ripeness is all.
Q: And what will ripen me? Do I need experience?
M: You already have all the experience you need,
otherwise you would not have come here. You need
not gather any more, rather you must go beyond
experience. Whatever effort you make, whatever
method (sadhana) you follow, will merely generate
more experience, but will not take you beyond. Nor
will reading books help you. They will enrich your
mind, but the person you are will remain intact. If
you expect any benefits from your search, material,
mental or spiritual, you have missed the point. Truth
gives no advantage. It gives you no higher status, no
power over others; all you get is truth and the
freedom from the false.
Q: Surely truth gives you the power to help others.
M: This is mere imagination, however noble. In truth
you do not help others, because there are no others.
You divide people into noble and ignoble and you
ask the noble to help the ignoble. You separate, you
evaluate, you judge and condemn -- in the name of
truth you destroy it. Your very desire to formulate
truth denies it, because it cannot be contained in
words. Truth can be expressed only by the denial of
the false -- in action. For this you must see the false
as false (viveka) and reject it (vairagya).
290
K: Boldog vagyok, hogy eljttem: habr holnap mr
tvozom, egy veled val beszlgets az egsz
letemet befolysolhatja.
M: Igen, amint kijelented, hogy meg akarom tallni
az Igazsgot, egsz leted ennek mlysges
hatsa al kerl. Egsz mentlis s fizikai
habitusod, rzseid s rzelmeid, vgyaid s
flelmeid, terveid s dntseid, a legradiklisabb
vltozson mennek keresztl.
K: Miutn felksztettem elmmet A Valsg
felfedezsre, mi a kvetkez teend?
M: Ez a vrmrskletedtl fgg. Ha komoly vagy,
brmilyen utat vlassz, el fog juttatni clodhoz. A
komolysg a dnt tnyez.
K: Mi a forrsa a komolysgnak?
M: A hazavezet sztn az, ami visszatrsre
kszteti a madarat a fszkre, s a halat a hegyi
patakba, ahol szletett. A mag visszatr a fldbe,
amikor a gymlcs megrett. rettsg krdse
minden.
K: s mi fog engem megrlelni? Tapasztalatokra
van szksgem?
M: Mr minden tapasztalattal rendelkezel, amire
szksged van, msklnben nem jttl volna ide.
Nem kell tbbet gyjtened, inkbb tl kell lpned a
tapasztalaton. Brmilyen erfesztst teszel,
brmilyen mdszert (sadhana) kvetsz, az csupn
mg tbb tapasztalatot eredmnyez, de nem fogsz
ltala tovbblpni. Knyvek olvassa sem segt.
Gazdagtani fogjk elmdet, de a szemly, aki vagy,
rintetlen marad. Ha valamilyen elnyt vrsz a
keresstl, legyen az anyagi, mentlis vagy
spiritulis, akkor nem rted a lnyeget. Az igazsg
nem biztost elnnyket. Nem biztost sem
magasabb sttuszt, sem msok feletti hatalmat,
mindssze az igazsgot nyered el, s a hamistl
val megszabadulst.
K: Bizonyra az igazsgbl nyered a hatalamat,
hogy segteni tudsz msokon.
M: Ez mer fantzils, brmennyire nemes.
Valjban nem segtesz msokon, mert nincsenek
msok. Nemesekre s alantasokra osztod az
embereket, s megkred a nemeseket, hogy
segtsenek az alantasokon. Elklntesz, rtkelsz,
tlkezel, s rosszallsz elpuszttod az igazsgot a
sajt nevben. Valjban az igazsg szablyokba
foglalsnak a vgya tagadja azt, mert az nem
szavakba nthet. Az igazsg csak a hamis
tagadsval fejezhet ki tettekben. Ehhez a
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Renunciation of the false is liberating and
energizing. It lays open the road to perfection.
Q: When do I know that I have discovered truth?
M: When the idea 'this is true', 'that is true' does not
arise. Truth does not assert itself, it is in the seeing
of the false as false and rejecting it. It is useless to
search for truth, when the mind is blind to the false.
It must be purged of the false completely before
truth can dawn on It.
Q: But what is false?
M: Surely, what has no being is false.
Q: What do you mean by having no being? The
false is there, hard as a nail.
M: What contradicts itself, has no being. Or it has
only momentary being, which comes to the same.
For, what has a beginning and an end has no
middle. It is hollow. It has only the name and shape
given to it by the mind, but it has neither substance
nor essence.
Q: If all that passes has no being, then the universe
has no being either.
M: Who ever denies it? Of course the universe has
no being.
Q: What has?
M: That which does not depend for its existence,
which does not arise with the universe arising, nor
set with the universe setting, which does not need
any proof, but imparts reality to all it touches. It is the
nature of the false that it appears real for a moment.
One could say that the true becomes the father of
the false. But the false is limited in time and space
and is produced by circumstances.
Q: How am I to get rid of the false and secure the
real?
M: To what purpose?
Q: In order to live a better, a more satisfactory life,
integrated and happy.
M: Whatever is conceived by the mind must be
false, for it is bound to be relative and limited. The
real is inconceivable and cannot be harnessed to a
purpose. It must be wanted for its own sake.
Q: How can I want the inconceivable?
291
hamisat hamisnak (viveka) kell ltnod, s vissza kell
azt utastanod (vairagya). A hamis elvetse
felszabadt, s energizl. Ez nyitja meg az utat a
tkleteseds fel.
K: Honnan tudom, hogy felfedeztem az igazsgot?
M: Amikor az ez igaz, az igaz gondolata nem merl
fel. Az igazsg nem kijelenti nmagt, hanem abban
ll, hogy a hamisat hamisnak ltod, s elutastod.
Haszontalan dolog keresni az igazsgot, amg az
elme vak a hamisra. El kell tvoltani a hamisat
teljesen, mieltt az igazsgra megvirradhatna.
K: De mi hamis?
M: Ami nem ltezik, az bizonyosan hamis.
K: Hogy rted, hogy nem ltezik? A hamis jelen van,
kkemnyen.
M: Ami ellentmond nmagnak, az nem ltezik.
Vagy csak pillanatnyilag ltezik, ami ugyanaz. Mert,
aminek van egy kezdete, s egy vge, annak nincs
kzepe. Tartalmatlan. Csak az elme ltal adott neve
s formja van, de nincs sem anyaga, sem lnyege.
K: Ha semmi nem ltezik, ami elmlik, akkor az
univerzum sem ltezik.
M: Ki tagadta ezt valaha? Termszetesen, az
univerzum sem ltezik.
K: Mi ltezik?
M: Az, ami nem fgg a ltezstl, ami nem jelenik
meg az univerzum megjelensvel, s nem tnik el
az univerzum eltnsvel, aminek nincs szksge
semmilyen bizonytkra, de valsgban rszest
mindent, amit megrint. A hamisnak az a
termszete, hogy egy pillanatra valsgnak
mutatkozik. Azt lehetne mondani, hogy az igazsg
szljv vlik a hamisnak. De a hamis idben s
trben korltozott, s a krlmnyek hozzk ltre.
K: Hogyan tvoltsam el a hamisat, s vjam meg a
valdit?
M: Mi clbl?
K: Egy jobb, sokkal kielgtbb, teljes, s boldog
let rdekben.
M: Az elme akrmit felfog, annak hamisnak kell
lennie, mert csak viszonylagoshoz, s korltozotthoz
ktdhet. A valdi felfoghatatlan, s nem clhoz
kthet. Azt a sajt kedvrt kell kvnni.
K: Hogy kvnhatnm a felfoghatatlant?
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
M: What else is there worth wanting? Granted, the
real cannot be wanted, as a thing is wanted. But you
can see the unreal as unreal and discard it. It is the
discarding the false that opens the way to the true.
Q: I understand, but how does it look in actual daily
life?
M: Self-interest and self-concern are the focal points
of the false. Your daily life vibrates between desire
and fear. Watch it intently and you will see how the
mind assumes innumerable names and shapes, like
a river foaming between the boulders. Trace every
action to its selfish motive and look at the motive
intently till it dissolves.
Q: To live, one must look after oneself, one must
earn money for oneself.
M: You need not earn for yourself, but you may have
to -- for a woman and a child. You may have to keep
on working for the sake of others. Even just to keep
alive can be a sacrifice. There is no need
whatsoever to be selfish. Discard every self-seeking
motive as soon as it is seen and you need not
search for truth; truth will find you.
Q: There is a minimum of needs.
M: Were they not supplied since you were
conceived? Give up the bondage of self-concern
and be what you are -- intelligence and love in
action.
Q: But one must survive.
M: You can't help surviving. The real you is timeless
and beyond birth and death. And the body will
survive as long as it is needed. It is not important
that it should live long. A full life is better than a long
life.
Q: Who is to say what is a full life? It depends on my K: Ki tudja megmondani, hogy mi a teljes let? Ez
cultural background. az n kulturlis htteremtl fgg.
M: If you seek reality you must set yourself free of all
backgrounds, of all cultures, of all patterns of
thinking and feeling. Even the idea of being man or
woman, or even human, should be discarded. The
ocean of life contains all, not only humans. So, first
of all abandon all self-identification, stop thinking of
yourself as such-and-such, so-and-so, this or that.
Abandon all self-concern, worry not about your
welfare, material or spiritual, abandon every desire,
gross or subtle, stop thinking of achievement of any
kind. You are complete here and now, you need
absolutely nothing.
292
M: Milyen ms rtk van, amit kvnni lehet?
Elismerem, a valdit nem lehet gy kvnni, ahogy
egy dolgot kvnunk. De lthatod valtlannak a
valtlant, s elvetheted. A hamis elvetse az, ami
megnyitja az utat az igaz eltt.
K: rtem, de ez hogy nz ez ki az adott, mindennapi
letben?
M: Az nrdek s az ntrds a hamis
fkuszpontjai. Mindennapi leted vgy s flelem
kztt leng. Figyeld elszntan, s ltni fogod, hogy
az elme, sziklk kzt habz folyknt, hogyan lt
magra megszmllhatatlan nevet s formt.
Kvess nyomon minden ns indtkot, s figyeld
elszntan az indtkot, amg szerte nem foszlik.
K: A meglhetshez az embernek gondoskodnia
kell magrl, pnzt kell keresnie.
M: Nem szksges, hogy nmagadrt pnzt keress,
de megteheted felesgedrt s gyermekeidrt.
Folytathatsz munklkodst msok rdekben. Mg
a puszta letben marads is lehet ldozat. Akrhogy
legyen is, nem szksges, hogy nz lgy. Vess el
minden nz motvumot, amint szreveszed, s nem
kell az igazsgot keresned, az igazsg meg fog
tallni tged.
K: Vannak minimlis szksgletek.
M: Nem voltak ezek kielgtve szletsedtl
kezdve? Add fel az ntrds igjt, s lgy, ami
vagy cselekv megrts, s szeretet.
K: De az embernek letben kell maradnia.
M: Nem tudod segteni a tllst. A valdi nmagad
idtlen, s szlets s hall felett ll. s a test akar
letben maradni, amg csak lehet. Nem fontos, hogy
sokig fog-e lni. A teljes let jobb, mint a hossz
let.
M: Ha valsgot keresel, meg kell szabadulnod
mindenfle httrtl, mindenfle kultrtl,
mindenfle gondolkodsi s rzelmi minttl. Mg
azt az idet is el kell vetned, hogy mi vagy, frfi,
vagy n, de mg azt is, hogy ember. Az let cenja
mindent magban foglal, nem csak az embereket.
Teht, elszr is hagyj fel minden nazonosulssal,
hagyd abba, hogy nmagadra gy gondolsz, mint
ami ilyen s ilyen, ez s ez, ez vagy az. Hagyj fel
minden ntrdssel, ne aggdj a jlted miatt,
legyen az anyagi vagy spiritulis, hagyj fel minden
vggyal, legyen az durva vagy finom, hagyd abba,
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
It does not mean that you must be brainless and
foolhardy, improvident or indifferent; only the basic
anxiety for oneself must go. You need some food,
clothing and shelter for you and yours, but this will
not create problems as long as greed is not taken for
a need. Live in tune with things as they are and not
as they are imagined.
Q: What am I if not human?
M: That which makes you think that you are a
human is not human. It is but a dimensionless point
of consciousness, a conscious nothing; all you can
say about yourself is: 'I am.' You are pure being --
awareness -- bliss. To realise that is the end of all
seeking. You come to it when you see all you think
yourself to be as mere imagination and stand aloof
in pure awareness of the transient as transient,
imaginary as imaginary, unreal as unreal. It is not at
all difficult, but detachment is needed. It is the
clinging to the false that makes the true so difficult to
see. Once you understand that the false needs time
and what needs time is false, you are nearer the
Reality, which is timeless, ever in the now. Eternity
in time is mere repetitiveness, like the movement of
a clock. It flows from the past into the future
endlessly, an empty perpetuity. Reality is what
makes the present so vital, so different from the past
and future, which are merely mental. If you need
time to achieve something, it must be false. The real
is always with you; you need not wait to be what you
are. Only you must not allow your mind to go out of
yourself in search. When you want something, ask
yourself: do I really need it? And if the answer is no,
then just drop it.
Q: Must I not be happy? I may not need a thing, yet
if it can make me happy, should I not grasp it?
M: Nothing can make you happier than you are. All
search for happiness is misery and leads to more
misery. The only happiness worth the name is the
natural happiness of conscious being.
Q: Don't I need a lot of experience before I can
reach such a high level of awareness?
M: Experience leaves only memories behind and
adds to the burden which is heavy enough. You
need no more experiences. The past ones are
293
hogy brmi mdon teljestmnyekben gondolkodj.
Te itt s most teljes vagy, abszolt semmire nincs
szksged.
Ez azt nem jelenti, hogy ostobnak,
meggondolatlannak, knnyelmnek vagy
kznysnek kell lenned, alapveten csak az
nmagadrt val aggdst kell elhagyni. Szksg
van nmi telre, ltzkre s fedlre neked, s
tieidnek, de ez nem fog problmkat tmasztani,
amg a kapzsisg miatt nem visz r a szksg. lj
sszhangban a dolgokkal, ahogy azok vannak, s
ne gy, ahogy azokat elkpzeled.
K: Mi vagyok, ha nem ember?
M: Az, ami azt gondoltatja veled, hogy ember vagy,
nem ember. Csak egy kiterjeds nlkli pont a
tudatossgban, egy tudatos semmi, mindssze
annyit tudsz magadrl mondani, hogy n vagyok.
Te a tiszta lt tudat dv vagy. Ennek
felismersekor minden keress vget r. Akkor red
el, amikor ltod, hogy minden, aminek gondolod
magad, puszta kpzelds, s tvol esik annak
tiszta tudattl, hogy az tmeneti az tmeneti, az
elkpzelt az elkpzelt, a valtlan az valtlan. Ez
egyltaln nem bonyolult, de elfogulatlansg
szksges hozz. A hamishoz val tapads az, ami
az igazsg megltst oly nehzz teszi. Amikor
megrted, hogy a hamishoz id kell, s amihez id
kell, az hamis, akkor kzelebb vagy a Valsghoz,
amely idtlen, rkk mostbeli. Az idbeli
rkkvalsg puszta ismtlds, olyan, mint az ra
mozgsa. A mltbl a jvbe ramlik vg nlkl,
res rkkvalsgban. A valsg az, ami a jelent
oly elevenn teszi, oly eltrv a mlttl s a jvtl,
amelyek pusztn mentlisak. Ha idre van
szksged, hogy elrj valamit, az hamis kell legyen.
A valdi mindig veled van, nem kell vrnod, hogy az
lgy, ami vagy. Csak nem szabad engedned, hogy
elmd nmagadon kvl keressen. Amikor kvnsz
valamit, krdezd meg nmagad: valban szksgem
van r? s ha a vlasz nem, akkor csak ereszd el.
K: Nem lehetek boldog? Nem lehet szksgem egy
dologra, ha az boldogg tenne, nem szerezhetem
meg?
M: Semmi nem tehet boldogabb, mint ami vagy. A
boldogsg mindenfle keresse szenvedssel jr,
s mg tbb szenvedshez vezet. Az egyetlen, ami,
ami kirdemli a boldogsg nevet, a tudatos lt
termszetes boldogsga.
K: Nem szksges sokat tapasztalnom, mieltt
elrhetem a tudat ilyen magas szintjt?
M: A tapasztalatok a memria aljra lepednek
csupn, s hozzaddnak teherhez, ami mr
meglehetsen nehz. Nincs szksged tbb
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
sufficient. And if you feel you need more, look into
the hearts of people around you. You will find a
variety of experiences which you would not be able
to go through in a thousand years. Learn from the
sorrows of others and save yourself your own. It is
not experience that you need, but the freedom from
all experience. Don't be greedy for experience; you
need none.
Q: Don't you pass through experiences yourself?
M: Things happen round me, but I take no part in
them. An event becomes an experience only when I
am emotionally involved. I am in a state which is
complete, which seeks not to improve on itself. Of
what use is experience to me?
Q: One needs knowledge, education.
M: To deal with things knowledge of things is
needed. To deal with people, you need insight,
sympathy. To deal with yourself you need nothing.
Be what you are: conscious being and don't stray
away from yourself.
Q: University education is most useful.
M: No doubt, It helps you to earn a living. But it does
not teach you how to live. You are a student of
psychology. It may help you in certain situations. But
can you live by psychology? Life is worthy of the
name only when it reflects Reality in action. No
university will teach you how to live so that when the
time of dying comes, you can say: I lived well I do
not need to live again. Most of us die wishing we
could live again. So many mistakes committed, so
much left undone. Most of the people vegetate, but
do not live. They merely gather experience and
enrich their memory. But experience is the denial of
Reality, which is neither sensory nor conceptual,
neither of the body, nor of the mind, though it
includes and transcends both.
Q: But experience is most useful. By experience you K: De a tapasztalat nagyon hasznos. Tapasztalat
learn not to touch a flame. ltal tanulod meg, hogy ne nylj a tzbe.
M: I have told you already that knowledge is most
useful in dealing with things. But it does not tell you
how to deal with people and yourself, how to live a
life. We are not talking of driving a car, or earning
money. For this you need experience. But for being
a light unto yourself material knowledge will not help
you. You need something much more intimate and
deeper than mediate knowledge, to be your self in
294
tapasztalatra. Az emberi mlt elegend. s ha gy
rzed, tbbre van szksged, nzz a krltted lv
emberek szvbe. A tapasztalatok nagy vlasztkt
fogod tallni, amin vezredek alatt sem lennl kpes
tmenni. Tanulj msok szomorsgbl, s kmld
meg tlk sajt magad. Nem tapasztalat az, amire
szksged van, hanem a minden tapasztalattl val
szabadsg. Ne vgyakozz tapasztalatra, egyre sincs
szksged.
K: Nem msz-e t tapasztalatokon te magad is?
M: Dolgok trtnnek krlttem, de n nem veszek
rszt bennk. Egy esemny csak akkor vlik
tapasztalatt, ha rzelmileg megrint. n olyan
llapotban vagyok, amely teljes, amely nem
trekszik nmaga javtsra. Mi a haszna lenne
szmomra a tapasztalatnak?
K: Az embernek tudsra, mveltsgre van
szksge.
M: Dolgokkal val bnshoz dolgokkal kapcsolatos
tudsra van szksg. Emberekkel val bnshoz
intucira, egyttrzsre van szksg. A magaddal
val bnshoz semmire nincs szksged. Lgy, ami
vagy: tudatos lt, s ne tvelyegj el nmagadtl.
K: Az egyetemi oktats nagyon hasznos.
M: Nem ktsges, segt, hogy megkeresd, ami a
meglhetshez szksges. De nem tantja meg,
hogy kell lni. Te pszicholgia szakos hallgat vagy.
Ez segtsgedre lehet bizonyos szitucikban. De
meg tudsz-e lni pszicholgibl? Az let csak
akkor mlt a nevre, ha a Valsgot tettekben
tkrzi. Semmilyen egyetem nem fog megtantani,
hogyan kell gy lni, hogy amikor kzeleg a hall
pillanata, azt mondhasd: helyesen ltem, nem kell
lnem ismt. Legtbbnk a hallakor azt kvnja,
brcsak lehetne egy j lete. Oly sok hibt
elkvettnk, oly sok mindent befejezetlenl
hagytunk. A legtbb ember nem l, csak vegetl. k
tapasztalatokat gyjtenek csupn, a memrijukat
gazdagtjk. De a tapasztals tagadsa a
Valsgnak, amely sem nem rzki, sem nem
fogalmi, sem nem a test, sem nem az elm, noha
mindegyiket magban foglalja, s meghaladja.
M: Beszltem mr rla, hogy a tuds nagyon
hasznos, ha dolgokkal bnsz. De abban nem segt,
hogyan kell bnni az emberekkel s nmagaddal,
hogyan kell lni az letet. Nem gpkocsivezetsrl,
vagy pnzkeressrl beszlnk. Ehhez tapasztalatra
van szksged. De minthogy fny vagy, a materilis
tuds nem segt rajtad. Kzvettett tudsnl valami
sokkal meghittebb s mlyebb dologra van
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
the true sense of the word. Your outer life is
unimportant. You can become a night watchman
and live happily. It is what you are inwardly that
matters. Your inner peace and joy you have to earn.
It is much more difficult than earning money. No
university can teach you to be yourself. The only
way to learn is by practice. Right away begin to be
yourself. Discard all you are not and go ever deeper.
Just as a man digging a well discards what is not
water, until he reaches the water-bearing strata, so
must you discard what is not your own, till nothing is
left which you can disown. You will find that what is
left is nothing which the mind can hook on to. You
are not even a human being. You just are -- a point
of awareness, co-extensive with time and space and
beyond both, the ultimate cause, itself uncaused. If
you ask me: 'Who are you?' My answer would be:
'Nothing in particular. Yet, I am.'
Q: If you are nothing in particular, then you must be
the universal.
M: What is to be universal -- not as a concept, but
as a way of life? Not to separate, not to oppose, but
to understand and love whatever contacts you, is
living universally. To be able to say truly: I am the
world, the world is me, I am at home in the world,
the world is my own. Every existence is my
existence, every consciousness is my
consciousness, every sorrow is my sorrow and
every joy is my joy -- this is universal life. Yet, my
real being, and yours too, is beyond the universe
and, therefore, beyond the categories of the
particular and the universal. It is what it is, totally
self-contained and independent.
Q: I find it hard to understand.
M: You must give yourself time to brood over these
things. The old grooves must be erased in your
brain, without forming new ones. You must realise
yourself as the immovable, behind and beyond the
movable, the silent witness of all that happens.
Q: Does it mean that I must give up all idea of an
active life?
M: Not at all. There will be marriage, there will be
children, there will be earning money to maintain a
family; all this will happen in the natural course of
events, for destiny must fulfil itself; you will go
through it without resistance, facing tasks as they
come, attentive and thorough, both in small things
and big. But the general attitude will be of
affectionate detachment, enormous goodwill, without
expectation of return, constant giving without asking.
295
szksged ahhoz, hogy a sz igazi rtelmben
nmagad lgy. Klsdleges leted nem fontos.
jjelir is lehetsz, s mgis lehet boldog az leted.
Ami belsleg vagy, az a lnyeg. Bels bkdet s
rmdet neked kell megszerezned. Ez sokkal
nehezebb, mint a pnz keress. Arra semmilyen
egyetem nem tud megtantani, hogy nmagad lgy.
A tanuls egyetlen mdja a a gyakorls. Most
azonnal kezdj el nmagad lenni. Vess el mindent,
ami nem te vagy, s menj egyre mlyebbre. pp
gy, ahogy a kutat s elvet mindent, ami nem vz,
mindaddig, amg vztart rteghez nem r, gy kell
neked elvetned mindazt, ami nem a te sajtod,
mindaddig, amg semmi nem marad, amit meg tudsz
tagadni. Ltni fogod, hogy semmi olyan nem marad,
amibe az elme bele tud kapaszkodni. Mg emberi
lny sem vagy. Te csak gy vagy a tudatnak egy
pontja, azonos terjedelm idvel s trrel, s
mindkettn tl van, a vgs ok, maga az nmagtl
val. Ha krdend tlem: Ki vagy te?, a vlaszom
az lenne: Semmifle egyedi. Mgis vagyok.
K: Ha nem egyedi vagy, akkor univerzlisnak kell
lenned.
M: Aminek univerzlisnak kell lennie nem fogalom,
hanem letmd? Nem elklnlni, nem szemben
llni, hanem megrteni s szeretni brmi olyat, ami
kapcsolatba kerl veled, ez az univerzlis let.
Kpesnek lenni, hogy szintn azt mondd: n
vagyok a vilg, a vilg azonos velem, otthon vagyok
a vilgban, a vilg az n sajtom. Minden ltezs az
n ltezsem, minden tudatossg az n
tudatossgom, minden szomorsg az n
szomorsgom, s minden rm az n rmem ez
az univerzlis let. Az n valdi ltem, s a tid is,
mgis meghaladja az univerzumot, s ezrt
meghaladja az egyedi s az univerzlis kategriit.
Az ami, teljesen nmagban zrt, s fggetlen.
K: Ezt nehz megrtenem.
M: Adj idt magadnak, hogy eltndj e dolgok felett.
A rgi barzdknak trldnik kell az agyadbl, jak
kialakulsa nlkl. A megmozdthatatlanknt kell
felismerned nmagad, ami a mozdthat mgtt s
tl van, csendes tanjaknt mindennek, ami trtnik.
K: Ez azt jelenti, hogy fel kell adnom az aktv letrl
minden elkpzelst?
M: Egyltaln nem. Hzas leszel, gyermekeid
lesznek, pnzt fogsz keresni, hogy eltartsd a
csaldod; mindezek az esemnyek termszetes
folyamatban trtnnek, mert a sorsnak be kell
tejestenie nmagt; ellenllsmentesen tmsz
ezeken, szembeslve a dolgokkal, ahogy azok
jnnek, figyelmesen s alaposan, mind a kis, mind a
nagy dolgokban. De ltalnos hozzllsod
szeretetteljes prtatlansg, viszonzs elvrsa
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
In marriage you are neither the husband nor the
wife; you are the love between the two. You are the
clarity and kindness that makes everything orderly
and happy. It may seem vague to you, but if you
think a little, you will find that the mystical is most
practical, for it makes your life creatively happy.
Your consciousness is raised to a higher dimension,
from which you see everything much clearer and
with greater intensity. You realise that the person
you became at birth and will cease to be at death is
temporary and false. You are not the sensual,
emotional and intellectual person, gripped by desires
and fears. Find out your real being. What am l? is
the fundamental question of all philosophy and
psychology. Go into it deeply.
67. Experience is not the Real Thing
Maharaj: The seeker is he who is in search of
himself. Soon he discovers that his own body he
cannot be. Once the conviction: 'I am not the body'
becomes so well grounded that he can no longer
feel, think and act for and on behalf of the body, he
will easily discover that he is the universal being,
knowing, acting, that in him and through him the
entire universe is real, conscious and active. This is
the heart of the problem. Either you are body-
conscious and a slave of circumstances, or you are
the universal consciousness itself -- and in full
control of every event.
Yet consciousness, individual or universal, is not my
true abode; I am not in it, it is not mine, there is no
'me' in it. I am beyond, though it is not easy to
explain how one can be neither conscious, nor
unconscious, but just beyond. I cannot say that I am
in God or I am God; God is the universal light and
love, the universal witness: I am beyond the
universal even.
Questioner: In that case you are without name and
shape. What kind of being have you?
M: I am what I am, neither with form nor formless,
neither conscious nor unconscious. I am outside all
these categories.
Q: You are taking the neti-neti (not this, not this)
approach.
M: You cannot find me by mere denial. I am as well
everything, as nothing. Nor both, nor either. These
definitions apply to the Lord of the Universe, not to
me.
296
nlkli mrhetetlen jindulat, krs nlkli lland
ads lesz. A hzassgban nem vagy sem a frj,
sem a felesg, a kett kztti szeretet vagy. Te vagy
a vilgossg s a jsg, ami mindent rendbe hoz, s
boldogg tesz. Ez homlyosnak tnhet szmodra,
de ha gondolkozol kicsit, r fogsz jnni, hogy a
titokzatos a legcldzerbb, mert az teszi letedet
pt mdon boldogg. Tudatossgod magasabb
dimenziba emelkedik, ahonnan mindent sokkal
tisztbban, s nagyobb intenzitssal ltsz.
Felismered, hogy a szemly, aki szletseddel lettl,
s akinek halloddal meg kell sznnie, tmeneti, s
hamis. Te nem az rzki, rzelmi s intellektulis
szemly vagy, akit vgyak s flelmek ragadnak
magukkal. Fedezd fel valdi ltedet. Mi vagyok n?
Ez az alapkrdse minden filozfinak s
pszicholginak. Merlj bele mlyen.
67. A tapasztalat nem a valsgos dolog
Maharaj: A keres az, aki nmagt kutatja.
Hamarosan felfedezi, hogy nem lehet a sajt teste.
Mihelyt az n nem a test vagyok meggyzds
annyira megalapozott, hogy tbb nem a test
rdekben rez, gondolkodik s cselekszik,
knnyszerrel fel fogja fedezni, hogy az
univerzlis lt, tuds, cselekvs, hogy benne s
ltala az egsz univerzum valsgos, tudatos, s
tevkeny. Ez a problma veleje. Vagy test-tudatos
vagy, s a krlmnyeknek alrendelt, vagy pedig te
vagy maga az univerzlis tudatossg s totlisan
ellenrzl minden esemnyt.
De mg a tudatossg individulis vagy univerzlis
sem az n igazi tartzkodsi helyem; nem vagyok
benne, az nem az enym, nincs benne n. Felette
llok, noha nem knny elmagyarzni, hogyan lehet
valaki sem tudatos, sem tudattalan, hanem ppen,
hogy ezeken tli. Nem tudom azt mondani, hogy
Istenben vagyok, vagy Isten vagyok; Isten az
univerzlis fny, s szeretet, az univerzlis tan: n
mg az univerzlisnak is felette llok.
Krdez: Ez esetben nv s forma nlkli vagy.
Milyen jellemzi a ltedet?
M: Vagyok, ami vagyok, sem formval rendelkez,
sem forma nlkli, sem tudatos, sem tudattalan. n
kvl vagyok mindezen kategrikon.
K: Te a neti-neti (nem ez, nem ez) felfogst vallod.
M: Nem vagyok felfedezhet puszta tagads rvn.
n ugyangy vagyok minden, mint ahogy semmi.
Sem mindkett, sem valamelyik. Ezek a
meghatrozsok az Univerzum Urra rvnyesek,
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: Do you intend to convey that you are just nothing. K: Azt akarod kifejezni, hogy te csupn semmi vagy.
M: Oh, no. I am complete and perfect. I am the
beingness of being, the knowingness of knowing,
the fullness of happiness. You cannot reduce me to
emptiness.
Q: If you are beyond words, what shall we talk
about? Metaphysically speaking, what you say holds
together; there is no inner contradiction. But there is
no food for me in what you say. It is so completely
beyond my urgent needs. When I ask for bread, you
are giving jewels. They are beautiful, no doubt, but I
am hungry.
M: It is not so. I am offering you exactly what you
need -- awakening. You are not hungry and you
need no bread. You need cessation, relinquishing,
disentanglement. What you believe you need is not
what you need. Your real need I know, not you. You
need to return to the state in which I am -- your
natural state. Anything else you may think of is an
illusion and an obstacle. Believe me, you need
nothing except to be what you are. You imagine you
will increase your value by acquisition. It is like gold
imagining that an addition of copper will improve it.
Elimination and purification, renunciation of all that is
foreign to your nature is enough. All else is vanity.
Q: It is easier said than done. A man comes to you
with stomach-ache and you advise him to disgorge
his stomach. Of course, without the mind there will
be no problems. But the mind is there -- most
tangibly.
M: It is the mind that tells you that the mind is there.
Don't be deceived. All the endless arguments about
the mind are produced by the mind itself, for its own
protection, continuation and expansion. It is the
blank refusal to consider the convolutions and
convulsions of the mind that can take you beyond it.
Q: Sir, I am an humble seeker, while you are the
Supreme Reality itself. Now the seeker approaches
the Supreme in order to be enlightened. What does
the Supreme do?
M: Listen to what I keep on telling you and do not
move away from it. Think of it all the time and of
nothing else. Having reached that far, abandon all
thoughts, not only of the world, but of yourself also.
Stay beyond all thoughts, in silent being-awareness.
It is not progress, for what you come to is already
297
nem nrm.
M: , nem. Teljes vagyok, s tkletes. n a lt
ltezsge, a megrts megrtssge, a boldogsg
teljessge vagyok. Nem reduklhatsz le engem az
ressgre.
K: Ha szavakon tli vagy, mirl fogunk beszlni? A
metafizikai eladsod egysges, nem tartalmaz
bels ellentmondst. De amit mondasz, abban nem
tallok a magam szmra tpllkot. Srgs
szksgleteimet teljesen meghalad dolgok. Ha
kenyeret krek, drgakveket adsz. Szpek ezek,
nem ktsges, de n hes vagyok.
M: Ez nem gy van. n pontosan azt ajnlom fel
szmodra, amire szksged van felbredst. Te
nem hes vagy, s nincs szksged kenyrre.
Megsznsre, feladsra, kiszabadulsra van
szksged. Amit szksgletednek hiszel, nem arra
van szksged. Valdi szksgletedet n ismerem,
nem te. Vissza kell trned abba az llapotba,
amelyben n vagyok a te termszetes
llapotodba. Brmi mst gondolsz, az illzi, s
akadly. Higgy nekem, semmi msra nincs
szksged, kivve, hogy az lgy, ami vagy. Azt
kpzeled, hogy szerzssel nvekedni fog az
rtked. Ez olyan, mint amikor az arany azt kpzeli,
hogy a vrsrz hozzadsa feljavtja. Elegend, ha
eltvoltod, kitiszttod magadbl, feladod a
termszetedtl idegen dolgokat. Minden ms
haszontalansg.
K: Knnyebb mondani, mint csinlni. Jn valaki,
hogy fj a gyomra, s te azt a tancsot adod neki,
hogy hnyja ki, ami a gyomrban van. Termszetes,
hogy elme nlkl semmifle problma nem lesz. De
az elme ltezik a legkzzelfoghatbb mdon.
M: Azt, hogy az elme ltezik, az elme mondja neked.
Ne hagyd magad becsapni. Az elmrl szl vg
nlkli rveket maga az elme produklja, sajt
vdelme, fennmaradsa, s terjeszkedse
rdekben. Az elmn az segthet tl, ha egyszeren
elutastod, hogy trdj a szvevnyeivel s
hborgsaival.
K: Tisztelt Uram, n egy alzatos keres vagyok,
mg te maga a Legfelsbb Valsg vagy. Most a
keres folyamodik a Legfelsbbhz, hogy
megvilgosodhasson. Mit csinl a Legfelsbb?
M: Hallgasd, amit mondok, s ne tgts tle. Mindig
arra gondolj, s semmi msra. Ha eljutottl idig,
hagyj el minden gondolatot, nem csak a vilgra, de
az nmagadra vonatkozkat is. Maradj minden
gondolat feletti, csendes lt-tudatban. Ez nem
fejldst jelent, mert amiv vlsz, az mr benned
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
there in you, waiting for you.
Q: So you say I should try to stop thinking and stay
steady in the idea: 'I am'.
M: Yes, and whatever thoughts come to you in
connection with the 'I am', empty them of all
meaning, pay them no attention.
Q: I happen to meet many young people coming
from the West and I find that there is a basic
difference when I compare them to the Indians. It
looks as if their psyche (antahkarana) is different.
Concepts like Self, Reality, pure mind, universal
consciousness the Indian mind grasps easily. They
ring familiar, they taste sweet. The Western mind
does not respond, or just rejects them. It concretises
and wants to utilise at once in the service of
accepted values. These values are often personal:
health, well-being, prosperity; sometimes they are
social -- a better society, a happier life for all; all are
connected with worldly problems, personal or
impersonal. Another difficulty one comes across
quite often in talking with the Westerners is that to
them everything is experience -- as they want to
experience food, drink and women, art and travels,
so do they want to experience Yoga, realisation and
liberation. To them it is just another experience, to
be had for a price. They imagine such experience
can be purchased and they bargain about the cost.
When one Guru quotes too high, in terms of time
and effort, they go to another, who offers instalment
terms, apparently very easy, but beset with
unfulfillable conditions. It is the old story of not
thinking of the grey monkey when taking the
medicine. In this case it is not thinking of the world,
'abandoning all self-hood', 'extinguishing every
desire', 'becoming perfect celibates' etc. Naturally
there is vast cheating going on all levels and the
results are nil. Some Gurus in sheer desperation
abandon all discipline, prescribe no conditions,
advise effortlessness, naturalness, simply living in
passive awareness, without any pattern of 'must' and
'must not'. And there are many disciples whose past
experiences brought them to dislike themselves so
badly that they just do not want to look at
themselves. If they are not disgusted, they are
bored. They have surfeit of self-knowledge, they
want something else.
M: Let them not think of themselves, if they do not
like it. Let them stay with a Guru, watch him, think of
him. Soon they will experience a kind of bliss, quite
new, never experienced before, except, maybe, in
childhood. The experience is so unmistakably new,
298
van, rd vrakozva.
K: Azt mondod, teht, hogy trekedjek a
gondolkods meglltsra, s szilrdan maradjak
az n vagyok gondolatban?
M: Igen, s brmilyen gondolat keletkezik benned az
n vagyok-kal kapcsolatosan, tedd jelents
nlkliv, ne figyelj r.
K: Trtnetesen sok nyugati fiatallal tallkozom, s
gy ltom, alapveten msok, mint az indiaiak. gy
ltom, mint hogyha az szellemk (antahkarana)
msmilyen lenne. Az n, Valsg, tiszta elme,
univerzlis tudatossg fogalmak az indiai elme
szmra knnyen rthetek. Ismers csengsek,
kellemesen hangzanak. A nyugati elmre viszont
nincsenek ilyen hatssal, vagy ppen hogy
elutastsba tkznek, konkretizlva azokat, azonnal
az elfogadott rtkek szolglatba akarja lltani.
Ezek az rtkek gyakran szemlyesek: egszsg,
jlt, boldoguls; nha trsadalmiak jobb
trsadalom, boldogabb let mindenki szmra;
mindezek, szemlyes vagy szemlytelen mdon,
evilgi problmkhoz kapcsoldnak. Egy msik
nehzsggel is gyakran tallkozni, ha nyugatiakkal
beszlsz, hogy szmukra minden tapasztalat
ahogy az teleket, italokat, nket, a mvszetet s
az utazst tapasztaljk, ugyangy akarjk
tapasztalni a Yogt, a megvalsulst s a
megszabadulst is. Szmukra ez csupn egy jabb
tapasztalat, amelynek ra van. gy kpzelik, hogy
az effle tapasztalat megvsrolhat, s alkudoznak
az rrl. Amikor az egyik Guru idben s
erfesztsben mrve tl magas rat kr, akkor
tmennek egy msikhoz, aki rszletfizetsi
lehetsget knl, ltszlag nagyon knny, de
teljesthetetlen felttelekkel knozza ket. Ez a ne
gondolj a szrke majomra, mikzben beveszed a
gygyszert rgi trtnete. Ez esetben nem gondolsz
a vilgra, elvetsz minden nzst, kioltasz minden
vgyat, teljes clibtust valstasz meg, stb.
Termszetesen risi csalsok minden szinten, s
az eredmny nulla. Egyes Guruk vgs
elszntsgukban elvetnek minden diszciplint,
elrst, vagy felttelt. Erfeszts-mentessget,
termszetessget rnak el, vagyis passzv tudattal,
mindenfle kell snem szabad minta mellzsvel
folytatott egyszer letet. s sok tantvny a mltbeli
tapasztalataik miatt odig jutott, hogy olyan nagy
ellenszenvet reznek ezek irnt, hogy mr rjuk sem
akarnak nzni. Ha pedig nem undorodtak meg,
akkor megunjk. Megcsmrlenek az nismerettl,
valami mst akarnak.
M: Ne gondoljanak nmagukra, ha nem az a kedvk
ellen val. Menjenek el a Guruhoz, figyeljenek r,
gondoljanak r. Hamarosan egy olyan boldogsgot
fognak tapasztalni, ami egszen j, amit eddig soha
nem tapasztaltak, taln a gyermekkorukat kivve. A
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
that it will attract their attention and create interest;
once the interest is roused, orderly application will
follow.
Q: These people are very critical and suspicious.
They cannot be otherwise, having passed through
much learning and much disappointment. On one
hand they want experience, on the other they
mistrust it. How to reach them, God alone knows.
M: True insight and love will reach them.
Q: When they have some spiritual experience,
another difficulty arises. They complain that the
experience does not last, that it comes and goes in a
haphazard way. Having got hold of the lollipop, they
want to suck it all the time.
M: Experience, however sublime, is not the real
thing. By its very nature it comes and goes. Self-
realisation is not an acquisition. It is more of the
nature of understanding. Once arrived at, it cannot
be lost. On the other hand, consciousness is
changeful, flowing, undergoing transformation from
moment to moment. Do not hold on to
consciousness and its contents. Consciousness
held, ceases. To try to perpetuate a flash of insight,
or a burst of happiness is destructive of what it
wants to preserve. What comes must go. The
permanent is beyond all comings and goings. Go to
the root of all experience, to the sense of being.
Beyond being and not-being lies the immensity of
the real. Try and try again.
Q: To try one needs faith.
M: There must be the desire first. When the desire is
strong, the willingness to try will come. You do not
need assurance of success, when the desire is
strong. You are ready to gamble.
Q: Strong desire, strong faith -- it comes to the
same. These people do not trust either their parents
or the society, or even themselves. All they touched
turned to ashes. Give them one experience
absolutely genuine, indubitable, beyond the
argumentations of the mind and they will follow you
to the world's end.
M: But I am doing nothing else. Tirelessly I draw
their attention to the one incontrovertible factor --
that of being. Being needs no proofs -- it proves all
else. If only they go deeply into the fact of being and
discover the vastness and the glory to which the 'I
am' is the door, and cross the door and go beyond,
their life will be full of happiness and light. Believe
me, the effort needed is as nothing when compared
299
tapasztalat annyira nyilvnvalan j, hogy magra
fogja vonni a figyelmket, s fel fogja tmasztani az
rdekldsket; ha egyszer az rdeklds feltmad,
azt rendszerint alkalmazs kveti.
K: Ezek az emberek nagyon kritikusak s
gyanakvak. Nem is lehet mskpp, olyan sok
tanulson s csaldson mentek keresztl. Egyfell
tapasztalatokat akarnak szerezni, msfell
ktelkedssel fogadjk azokat. Hogy lehet elrni
ket, csak Isten tudja.
M: Az igaz intuci s szeretet el fogja ket rni.
K: Ha szert tesznek valamilyen spiritulis
tapasztalatra, akkor egy msik problma merl fel.
Arrl panaszkodnak, hogy a tapasztalat nem tarts,
hogy vletlenszeren megjelenik s eltvozik.
Mintha nyalka lenne, llandan azt szopogatnk.
M: A tapasztalat, legyen az brmi fensges, nem
valsgos dolog. Valdi termszetnek megfelelen
megjelenik, s eltnik. Az nmegvalsts nem
valaminek a megszerzse. Termszett tekintve
tbb, mint megrts. Amikor elrted, tbb nem
vesztheted el. Msfell, a tudatossg vltozkony,
folykony, talakulsokon megy keresztl, pillanatrl
pillanatra. Ne ragaszkodj a tudatossghoz, se annak
tartalmhoz. A tudatossg bekvetkezik, megsznik.
Ha megprblod llandstani az intuci egy
felvillanst, vagy a kirobban boldogsgot, azzal
azt rombolod, amit megrizni akarsz. Az lland
minden jvs-mens fltt ll. Merlj al minden
tapasztalat gykerhez, a lt rzshez. A lten s
nemlten tl terl el a valsg vgtelensge.
Prblkozz jra s jra.
K: A prblkozshoz hit kell.
M: Elbb meg kell lennie a vgynak. Ha ers a vgy,
a prblkozsra val hajlandsg is megjn. Ers
vgy esetn nem ignyelsz garancit a sikerre. Ksz
vagy kockztatni.
K: Ers vgy, ers hit ugyanoda vezetnek. Ezek
az emberek nem hisznek sem a szleiknek, sem a
trsadalomnak, de mg sajt maguknak sem.
Brmihez rtek, hamvba holt. Adj nekik egy
abszolt valdi, ktsgbevonhatatlan, az elme
rvelst meghalad tapasztalatot, s kvetni
fognak a vilg vgre is.
M: De n semmi mst se csinlok. Fradhatatlanul
az egyetlen ktsgbevonhatatlan tnyezre
irnytom a figyelmket a ltre. A ltnek nincs
szksge bizonytkokra az a bizonytka minden
msnak. Ha csak elmlyednek a lt tnybe, s
felfedezik a vgtelensget s a dicssget, amihez
az n vagyok az tjr, s tmennek az tjrn, s
tovbb mennek, akkor az letk tele lesz
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
with the discoveries arrived at.
Q: What you say is right. But these people have
neither confidence nor patience. Even a short effort
tires them. It is really pathetic to see them groping
blindly and yet unable to hold on to the helping
hand. They are such nice people fundamentally but
totally bewildered. I tell them: you cannot have truth
on your own terms. You must accept the conditions.
To this they answer: Some will accept the conditions
and some will not. Acceptance or non-acceptance
are superficial and accidental; reality is in all; there
must be a way for all to tread -- with no conditions
attached.
M: There is such a way, open to all, on every level,
in every walk of life. Everybody is aware of himself.
The deepening and broadening of self-awareness is
the royal way. Call it mindfulness, or witnessing, or
just attention -- it is for all. None is unripe for it and
none can fail.
But, of course, your must not be merely alert. Your
mindfulness must include the mind also. Witnessing
is primarily awareness of consciousness and its
movements.
68. Seek the Source of Consciousness
Questioner: We were talking the other day about
the ways of the modern Western mind and the
difficulty it finds in submitting to the moral and
intellectual discipline of the Vedanta. One of the
obstacles lies in the young European's or American's
preoccupation with the disastrous condition of the
world and the urgent need of setting it right.
They have no patience with people like you who
preach personal improvement as a pre-condition for
the betterment of the world. They say it is neither
possible nor necessary. Humanity is ready for a
change of systems -- social, economic, political. A
world-government, world-police, world-planning and
the abolition of all physical and ideological barriers:
this is enough, no personal transformation is
needed. No doubt, people shape society, but society
shapes people too. In a humane society people will
be humane; besides, science provides the answer to
many questions which formerly were in the domain
of religion.
300
boldogsggal s fnnyel. Higgy nekem, az
erfeszts, ami ehhez szksges, semmisg a
megrkezs felfedezseihez mrten.
K: Igazat szlsz. De ezeknek az embereknek se
bizalmuk, se trelmk. Mg egy kurta erfeszts is
kifrasztja ket. Valban nagyon megrendt ltni,
ahogy vakon tapogatznak, s mgsem kpesek
elrni a segt kzig. Nagyon kedves emberek,
alapveten, de teljesen ssze vannak zavarodva.
Mondom nekik: nem tudod elrni a te
kifejezsmdod szerinti igazsgot. El kell fogadnod
a krlmnyeket. Erre azt vlaszoljk: bizonyos
krlmnyeket elfogadunk, bizonyosakat pedig nem.
Az elfogads, vagy el nem fogads felletiek s
esetlegesek; a valsg mindegyikben benne van;
kell, hogy legyen olyan t, amelyen mindenki
haladhat amely semmilyen krlmnytl nem fgg.
M: Van ilyen t, amely mindenki szmra, minden
szinten, az let minden terletn nyitott. Mindenki
tudatban van nmagnak. Az n-tudat mlytse
s szlestse a kirlyi t. Figyelemteljessgnek,
tansgnak, vagy csupn figyelemnek is
nevezhezeted egyre megy. Senki nem retlen r,
s senki nem tud kudarcot vallani.
De nem elg, termszetesen, bernek lenned
csupn. Figyelemteljessged az elmt is magba
kell, hogy foglalnja. A tansg elsdlegesen a
tudatossg, s mozgsainak tudata.
68. Keresd a tudatossg forrst
Krdez: A minap a Nyugat modern gondolkodsi
irnyzatairl, s a Vedanta morlis s intellektulis
felfogsa elfogadsnak nehzsgeirl
beszlgettnk. A gtat jelent tnyezk egyike, hogy
az eurpai s amerikai fiatalok belefeledkeznek a
katasztroflis llapotban lv, srgsen jobbtsra
szorul vilgba.
Nincs olyan trelmesek az emberekkel, mint te, aki a
a vilg javtsnak elfeltteleknt a szemlyes
tkletesedst hirdeted. k azt mondjk, hogy ez
nem lehetsges, s nem is szksges. Az
emberisg kszen ll a rendszerek
megvltoztatsra legyenek azok trsadalmiak,
gazdasgiak, politikaiak. Vilgkormny,
vilgrendrsg, vilgtervezs, s minden fizikai s
minden ideolgia korlt megszntetse: ez
elegend, nincs szksg szemlyes talakulsra.
Ktsgtelen, hogy az emberek alaktjk
kzssgeket, de a kzssgek is alaktjk az
embereket. Embersges kzssgekben az
emberek embersgesek lesznek; ezen fell a
tudomny vlasszal szolgl sok olyan krdsre,
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
amely rgebben a valls terletn felmerlt.

Maharaj: No doubt, striving for the improvement of
the world is a most praiseworthy occupation. Done
selflessly, it clarifies the mind and purifies the heart.
But soon man will realise that he pursues a mirage.
Local and temporary improvement is always
possible and was achieved again and again under
the influence of a great king or teacher; but it would
soon come to an end, leaving humanity in a new
cycle of misery. It is in the nature of all manifestation
that the good and the bad follow each other and in
equal measure. The true refuge is only in the
unmanifested.
Maharaj: Semmi ktsg, a vilg megjavtsra val
trekvs a legdcsretremltbb foglalatossg.
nzetlen vgzse megvilgostja az elmt, s
megtiszttja a szvet. De az ember hamarosan fel
fogja ismerni, hogy trekvsei brndkpek.
Helyileg s idben korltozott jobbtsok mindig
lehetsgesek, s ez jra meg jra megvalsthat,
egy nagy kirly vagy tant befolysa alatt; de ennek
csakhamar vge kell legyen, s az emberisg egy
jabb szenvedsi ciklusba kerl. A valdi menedk
csak a megnyilvnulatlanban lehetsges.

Q: Are you not advising escape? K: Nem meneklst javasolsz?

M: On the contrary. The only way to renewal lies
through destruction. You must melt down the old
jewellery into formless gold before you can mould a
new one. Only the people who have gone beyond
the world can change the world. It never happened
otherwise. The few whose impact was long lasting
were all knowers of reality. Reach their level and
then only talk of helping the world.
M: Pont az ellenkezjt. Az egyetlen md a
megjulsra a pusztulson t vezet. A rgi kszert
forma nlkli aranny kell beolvasztanod, mieltt
jat formlhatnl. Soha nem trtnhet mskpp.
Azon kevesek, akik hatsa hosszan tart volt,
mindannyian ismertk a valsgot. rd el az
szintjket, majd csak azutn beszlj a vilg
megsegtsrl.

Q: It is not the rivers and mountains that we want to K: Nem a folykon s a hegyeken akarunk segteni,
help, but the people. hanem az emberek.

M: There is nothing wrong with the world, but for the M: Semi baj a vilggal, az emberek nlkl, akik
people who make it bad. Go and ask them to elrontjk. Menj, s krd meg ket, hogy
behave. viselkedjenek.

Q: Desire and fear make them behave as they do. K: Vgy s flelem okozza a viselkedsket.

M: Exactly. As long as human behaviour is M: Pontosan. Amg az emberi viselkedst vgy s

dominated by desire and fear, there is not much flelem uralja, addig a legkevsb sincs remny. s
hope. And to know how to approach the people az emberek hatkony megkzeltsnek tudshoz,
effectively, you must yourself be free of all desire minden vgytl s flelemtl meg kell szabadulnod.
and fear.

Q: Certain basic desires and fears are inevitable, K: Elkerlhetetlen, hogy legyenek bizonyos alapvet
such as are connected with food, sex and death. vgyaink s flelmeink, mint pldul az lelemmel,
szexszel, s halllal kapcsolatosak.

M: These are needs and, as needs, they are easy to M: Ezek szksgletek, s a szksgleteket knny
meet. kielgteni.

Q: Even death is a need? K: Mg a hall is szksglet?

M: Having lived a long and fruitful life you feel the
need to die. Only when wrongly applied, desire and
fear are destructive. By all means desire the right
and fear the wrong. But when people desire what is
wrong and fear what is right, they create chaos and
despair.
M: Egy hossz s gymlcsz let lelse utn
szksgesnek fogod rezni a hallt. Csak amikor
rosszul hasznlod, destruktv a vgy s a flelem.
Mindenflekppen, a vgy s a flelem a hiba. De
mikor az ember vgyja, ami helytelen, s fli, ami
helyes, akkor ezek koszt s ktsgbeesst
teremtenek.

Q: What is right and what is wrong? K: Mi helyes, s mi helytelen?

301
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
M: Relatively, what causes suffering is wrong, what M: Viszonylagos rtelemben, ami szenvedst okoz
alleviates it is right. Absolutely, what brings you back az helytelen, ami enyhti azt az helyes. Abszolt
to reality is right and what dims reality is wrong. rtelemben, ami visszavisz tged a valsgba, az
helyes, s ami elhalvnytja a valsgot, az
helytelen.

Q: When we talk of helping humanity, we mean a K: Amikor az emberisg segtsrl beszlnk,

struggle against disorder and suffering. akkor zrzavar s szenveds elleni harcra
gondolunk.

M: You merely talk of helping. Have you ever
helped, really helped, a single man? Have you ever
put one soul beyond the need of further help? Can
you give a man character, based on full realisation
of his duties and opportunities at least, if not on the
insight into his true being? When you do not know
what is good for yourself, how can you know what is
good for others?
M: Te csupn beszlsz a segtsrl. Segtettl-e
valaha is, segtettl-e valban, akr egyetlen
emberen is? Megtetted-e valaha, hogy akr egyetlen
llek is tl jusson azon, hogy szksge legyen
tovbbi segtsgre? Tudsz-e valakinek legalbb
ktelessgei s lehetsgei teljes megvalstst
megalapoz ers jellemet adni, ha valdi ltbe val
pillantst nem is? Ha nem tudod, mi j nmagadnak,
honnan tudhatnd, mi j msoknak?

Q: The adequate supply of means of livelihood is K: A ltfenntartst alkalmas mdon szolgl eszkz
good for all. You may be God himself, but you need mindenkinek j. Lehetsz maga az risten, de
a well-fed body to talk to us. szksged van egy jl tpllt testre, hogy
beszlgess velnk.

M: It is you that need my body to talk to you. I am
not my body, nor do I need it. I am the witness only.
I have no shape of my own. You are so accustomed
to think of yourselves as bodies having
consciousness that you just cannot imagine
consciousness as having bodies. Once you realise
that bodily existence is but a state of mind, a
movement in consciousness, that the ocean of
consciousness is infinite and eternal, and that, when
in touch with consciousness, you are the witness
only, you will be able to withdraw beyond
consciousness altogether.
M: Te vagy, akinek szksge van a testemre, hogy
beszlgessen veled. n nem a testem vagyok, s
nincs is r szksgem. n a tan vagyok csupn.
Nekem nincs sajt formm. gy megszokttok
tudatossggal rendelkez testnek gondolni
magatokat, hogy mg elkpzelni sem tudjtok
testekkel rendelkez tudatossgnak. A fizikai ltezs
csak az elme llapota, mozgs a tudatossgban, a
tudatossg cenja hatrtalan s rk, s te a
tudatossgnak a tanja vagy csupn. Amint ezt
felismered, kpes leszel r, hogy teljesen
visszahzdj a tudatossg mg.

Q: We are told there are many levels of existences. K: Mondtad, hogy a ltezseknek sok szintje van.
Do you exit and function on all the levels? While you Te mindezeken szinteken ltezel s funkcionlsz?
are on earth, are you also in heaven (swarga)? Mikzben a Fldn vagy, ugyanakkor a
mennyorszgban (swarga) is vagy?

M: I am nowhere to be found. I am not a thing to be
given a place among other things. All things are in
me, but I am not among things. You are telling me
about the superstructure while I am concerned with
the foundations. The superstructures rise and fall,
but the foundations last. I am not interested in the
transient, while you talk of nothing else.
M: n nem vagyok sehol sem tallhat. n nem
vagyok a tbbi dolog kztt, adott helyen lv dolog.
Minden dolog nbennem van, de n nem vagyok a
dolgok kztt. Te a felptmnyrl beszlsz, mg rm
az alapok vonatkoznak. A felptmnyek
keletkeznek s elmlnak, de az alapok
fennmaradnak. Engem nem rdekel a mland, mg
te semmi msrl sem beszlsz.

Q: Forgive me a strange question. If somebody with K: Ha megbocstasz, feltennk egy klns

a razor sharp sword would suddenly severe your krdst. Ha egy borotva les karddal hirtelen
head, what difference would it make to you? lecsapn valaki a fejedet, ez milyen klnbsget
jelentene szmodra?

M: None whatsoever. The body will lose its head, M: Egyltaln semmit. A test elveszten a fejt,
certain lines of communication will be cut, that is all. bizonyos kommunikcis vonalak megszakadnnak,
Two people talk to each other on the phone and the ez minden. Kt ember telefonbeszlgetst folytat

302
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
wire is cut. Nothing happens to the people, only they
must look for some other means of communication.
The Bhagavad Gita says: "the sword does not cut it".
It is literally so. It is in the nature of consciousness to
survive its vehicles. It is like fire. It burns up the fuel,
but not itself. Just like a fire can outlast a mountain
of fuel, so does consciousness survive innumerable
bodies.
Q: The fuel affects the flame.
M: As long as it lasts. Change the nature of the fuel
and the colour and appearance of the flame will
change.
Now we are talking to each other. For this presence
is needed; unless we are present, we cannot talk.
But presence by itself is not enough. There must
also he the desire to talk.
Above all, we want to remain conscious. We shall
bear every suffering and humiliation, but we shall
rather remain conscious. Unless we revolt against
this craving for experience and let go the manifested
altogether, there can be no relief. We shall remain
trapped.
Q: You say you are the silent witness and also you
are beyond consciousness. Is there no contradiction
in it? If you are beyond consciousness, what are you
witnessing to?
M: I am conscious and unconscious, both conscious
and unconscious, neither conscious nor
unconscious -- to all this I am witness -- but really
there is no witness, because there is nothing to be a
witness to. I am perfectly empty of all mental
formations, void of mind -- yet fully aware. This I try
to express my saying that I am beyond the mind.
Q: How can I reach you then?
M: Be aware of being conscious and seek the
source of consciousness. That is all. Very little can
be conveyed in words. It is the doing as I tell you
that will bring light, not my telling you. The means do
not matter much; it is the desire, the urge, the
earnestness that count.
69. Transiency is Proof of Unreality
Questioner: My friend is a German and I was born
303
egymssal, s a kbelt elvgjk. Semmi sem
trtnik az emberekkel, csak ms eszkzket kell
keresnik a kommunikcihoz. A Bhagavad Gita azt
mondja: a kard nem fogja azt. Ez sz szerint gy
van. A tudatossg termszethez hozztartozik,
hogy tlli hordoz eszkzeit. Akr a tz. Felemszti
a tzelanyagot, de nmagt nem. Akrcsak a tz
kpes fennmaradni tzelanyag hegyeken,
ugyangy marad fenn a tudatossg szmtalan
testen.
K: A tzelanyag befolyssal van a tzre.
M: Amg az tart. Vltoztass a tzelanyag
termszetn, s a lng szne s megjelense is
megvltozik.
Most egymssal beszlgetnk. Ehhez jelenlt
szksges; hacsak nem vagyunk jelen, nem tudunk
beszlgetni. De jelenlt egyedl nem elegend. A
beszlgets vgya is szksges.
Tudatosak akarunk maradni, mindenek felett.
Minden szenvedst s megalzst elviselnnk, csak
hogy mg egy kicsit tudatosak maradjunk. Hacsak
fel nem lzadunk e tapasztalat irnti knz vgy
ellen, s el nem engedjk vgkpp a
megnyilvnultat, nem nyugodhatunk. Csapdban
fogunk maradni.
K: Azt mondod, te a csendes tan vagy, s
ugyanakkor a tudatossg felett is llsz. Nincs itt
valami ellentmonds? Ha a tudatossg felett llsz,
akkor minek vagy a tanja?
M: Tudatos vagyok, s tudattalan, egyarnt tudatos
s tudattalan, ugyanakkor se tudatos, se tudattalan
mindennek a tanja vagyok , de valjban nincs
tansg, mert semmi nincs, aminek a tanja lehetne
lenni. Tkletesen mentes vagyok mindenfle
mentlis kpzdmnytl, elmm res mgis
teljesen tudatos vagyok. Ezt akarom kifejezni, mikor
azt mondom, hogy meghaladtam az elmt.
K: Hogy rhetlek el akkor?
M: Lgy tudatban, hogy tudatos vagy, s keresd a
tudatossg forrst. Ez minden. Nagyon kevs
kzlhet szavakkal. A feld irnyul beszd
cselekvse fogja meggyjtani a fnyt, nem a hozzd
intzett beszdem. A jelents nem igazn lnyeges;
a vgy, a knyszer, a komolysg az, ami szmt.
69. A mlkonysg a valtlansgnak a
bizonytka
Krdez: A bartom nmet, n Angliban
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
in England from French parents. I am in India since
over a year wandering from Ashram to Ashram.
Maharaj: Any spiritual practices (sadhanas)?
Q: Studies and meditation.
M: What did you meditate on?
Q: On what I read.
M: Good.
Q: What are you doing, sir?
M: Sitting.
Q: And what else?
M: Talking.
Q: What are you talking about?
M: Do you want a lecture? Better ask something that
really touches you, so that you feel strongly about it.
Unless you are emotionally involved, you may argue
with me, but there will be no real understanding
between us. If you say: 'nothing worries me, I have
no problems', it is all right with me, we can keep
quiet. But if something really touches you, then there
is purpose in talking.
Shall I ask you? What is the purpose of your moving Megkrdezhetlek? Milyen cllal utazol ide-oda?
from place to place?
Q: To meet people, to try to understand them.
M: What people are you trying to understand? What
exactly are you after?
Q: Integration.
M: If you want integration, you must know whom you M: Ha egysget akarsz, tudnod kell, hogy kivel
want to integrate. akarsz egyeslni.
Q: By meeting people and watching them, one
comes to know oneself also. It goes together.
M: It does not necessarily go together.
Q: One improves the other.
M: It does not work that way. The mirror reflects the
image, but the image does not improve the mirror.
You are neither the mirror nor the image in the
mirror. Having perfected the mirror so that it reflects
correctly, truly, you can turn the mirror round and
304
szlettem, szleim francik. Egy ve vndorlok
Indiban, Ashramrl Ashramra.
Maharaj: Valamilyen spiritulis gyakorlatok
(sadhana)?
K: Tanulmnyok s meditci.
M: Min meditltl?
K: Azon, amit olvasok.
M: J.
K: Te mit csinlsz, Uram?
M: lk.
K: s mg mi egyebet?
M: Beszlek.
K: Mirl beszlsz?
M: Eladst akarsz? Jobb, ha megkrdezed, ami
valban rdekel, ami nagyon fontos szmodra.
Hacsak nem terhel rzelmileg, vitzhatsz velem,
egybknt nem fogjuk igazn megrteni egymst.
Ha azt mondod: semmi miatt nem aggdom,
nincsenek problmim, rszemrl rendben,
maradhatunk csendben is. De ha valami igazn
rdekel, akkor clszer, hogy beszlgessnk.
K: Hogy emberekkel tallkozzak, hogy
megprbljam ket megrteni.
M: Milyen embereket prblsz megrteni? Pontosan
mit keresel?
K: Egysget.
K: Azzal, hogy emberekkel val tallkozom, s
megfigyelem ket, nmagamat is megismerem.
Ezek egymssal jr dolgok.
M: Nem szksgszeren egymssal jrak.
K: Az egyik fejleszti a msikat.
M: Ez nem gy mkdik. A tkr visszatkrzi a
kpet, de a kp nem fejleszti a tkrt. Te nem vagy
sem a tkr, sem a tkrbeli kp. Lehet egy
olyannyira tkletestett tkrd, hogy a tkrzds
pontos, kifogstalan, elforgathatod a tkrt, s ltod
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
see in it a true reflection of yourself -- true as far as
the mirror can reflect. But the reflection is not
yourself -- you are the seer of the reflection. Do
understand it clearly -- whatever you may perceive
you are not what you perceive.
Q: I am the mirror and the world is the image?
M: You can see both the image and the mirror. You
are neither. Who are you? Don't go by formulas. The
answer is not in words. The nearest you can say in
words is: I am what makes perception possible, the
life beyond the experiencer and his experience.
Now, can you separate yourself both from the mirror
and the image in the mirror and stand completely
alone, all by yourself?
Q: No, I cannot.
M: How do you know that you cannot? There are so
many things you are doing without knowing how to
do it. You digest, you circulate your blood and
lymph, you move your muscles -- all without knowing
how. In the same way, you perceive, you feel, you
think without knowing the why and how of it.
Similarly you are yourself without knowing it. There
is nothing wrong with you as the Self. It is what it is
to perfection. It is the mirror that is not clear and true
and, therefore, gives you false images. You need
not correct yourself -- only set right your idea of
yourself. Learn to separate yourself from the image
and the mirror, keep on remembering: I am neither
the mind nor its ideas: do it patiently and with
convictions and you will surely come to the direct
vision of yourself as the source of being -- knowing -
- loving, eternal, all-embracing all-pervading. You
are the infinite focussed in a body. Now you see the
body only. Try earnestly and you will come to see
the infinite only.
Q: The experience of reality, when it comes, does it
last?
M: All experience is necessarily transient. But the
ground of all experience is immovable. Nothing that
may be called an event will last. But some events
purify the mind and some stain it. Moments of deep
insight and all-embracing love purify the mind, while
desires and fears, envies and anger, blind beliefs
and intellectual arrogance pollute and dull the
psyche.
Q: Is self-realisation so important?
305
benne nmagad h tkrkpt annyira hen,
amilyen a tkr tkrz kpessge. De a tkrkp
nem te magad vagy te a tkrkp nzje vagy.
Vilgosan meg kell rtened akrmit is szlelsz, te
nem az vagy, mit szlelsz.
K: n vagyok a tkr, s a vilg a kp?
M: Te ltod mindkettt, a kpet, s a tkrt is. Te
egyik sem vagy. Ki vagy te? Ne formulkbl tlj. A
vlasz nem a szavakban van. A legkzelebbi, amit
szavakban mondhatsz: n az vagyok, ami az
szlelst lehetv teszi, a tapasztaln s a
tapasztalaton tli let.
Na most, el tudod klnteni nmagad mind a
tkrtl, mind a tkrbeli kptl, s teljesen egyedl
llni, teljesen nmagadknt?
K: Nem, nem tudok.
M: Honnan tudod, hogy nem tudsz? Oly sok dolgot
csinlsz, annak tudsa nlkl, hogyan kell azt
csinlni. Emsztesz, keringeted a vredet s
nyiroknedveidet, mozgatod az izmaidat mindezt
anlkl, hogy tudnd, hogyan. Ugyanilyen mdon
rzkelsz, rzel, gondolkodsz, anlkl, hogy tudnd
a mirtjt s hogyanjt. Ugyangy vagy nmagad is,
anlkl, hogy tudnd. Semmi baj veled, mint nnel.
Az maga a tkly. A tkr ami nem tiszta, s igaz,
s ezrt hamis kpet mutat szmodra. Nem
nmagadat kell korriglnod csak az nmagaddal
kapcsolatos fogalmakat kell helyre igaztanod.
Tanuld meg elklnteni nmagadat a kptl, s a
tkrtl, tartsd emlkezetedben: n sem a tkr,
sem annak idei nem vagyok: tedd ezt trelmesen,
s meggyzdssel, s biztos, hogy eljutsz
nmagadnak, mint a lt tud-szeret, rkkval,
mindent magba foglal, mindent betlt
forrsnak a kzvetlen ltsig. Te vagy a testben
koncentrlt vgtelen. Most csak a testet ltod.
Trekedj komolyan, s el fogsz oda rkezni, hogy
csak a vgtelent lsd.
K: Ha megrkezik a valsg tapasztalata, utna
megmarad?
M: Minden tapasztalat szksgszeren mland. De
az alap, amely minden tapasztalat alatt ott van,
megvltoztathatatlan. Semmi, amit esemnynek
nevezhetnk, nem maradand. De bizonyos
esemnyek tiszttjk az elmt, s bizonyosak
beszennyezik. A mly szellemi meglts s
mindenre kiterjed szeretet pillanatai tiszttjk az
elmt, mg a vgyak s flelmek, irigysg s harag,
vakhit s intellektulis nteltsg beszennyezik, s
eltomptjk a pszicht.
K: Olyan fontos az n-megvalsts?
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
M: Without it you will be consumed by desires and
fears, repeating themselves meaninglessly in
endless suffering. Most of the people do not know
that there can be an end to pain. But once they have
heard the good news, obviously going beyond all
strife and struggle is the most urgent task that can
be. You know that you can be free and now it is up
to you. Either you remain forever hungry and thirsty,
longing, searching, grabbing, holding, ever losing
and sorrowing, or go out whole-heartedly in search
of the state of timeless perfection to which nothing
can be added, from which nothing -- taken away. In
it all desires and fears are absent, not because they
were given up, but because they have lost their
meaning.
Q: So far I have been following you. Now, what am I
expected to do?
M: There is nothing to do. Just be. Do nothing. Be.
No climbing mountains and sitting in caves. I do not
even say: 'be yourself', since you do not know
yourself. Just be. Having seen that you are neither
the 'outer' world of perceivables, nor the 'inner' world
of thinkables, that you are neither body nor mind --
just be.
Q: Surely, there are degrees of realisation.
M: There are no steps to self-realisation. There is
nothing gradual about it. It happens suddenly and is
irreversible. You rotate into a new dimension, seen
from which the previous ones are mere abstractions.
Just like on sunrise you see things as they are, so
on self-realisation you see everything as it is. The
world of illusions is left behind.
Q: In the state of realisation do things change? They K: Megvltoznak a dolgok a megvalsuls
become colourful and full of meaning?
M: The experience is quite right, but it is not the
experience of reality (sadanubhav), but of harmony
(satvanubhav) of the universe.
Q: Nevertheless, there is progress.
M: There can be progress only in the preparation
(sadhana). Realisation is sudden. The fruit ripens
slowly, but falls suddenly and without return.
Q: I am physically and mentally at peace. What
more do I need?
M: Yours may not be the ultimate state. You will
recognise that you have returned to your natural
306
M: Nlkle elpusztulsz a vgyak s flelmek miatt,
rtelmetlenl ismtelve azokat, vgetlen
szenvedsben. A legtbb ember nem tudja, hogy
vget lehet vetni a fjdalomnak. De amikor
meghalljk az rvendetes hrt, nyilvnvalv vlik
szmukra, hogy a minden viszlyon s harcon val
fellemelkeds a lehet legsrgsebb feladatuk.
Tudod, hogy megszabadulhatsz, s hogy ez most
elrhet szmodra. Vagy rkre hes s szomjas,
vgyd, keres, harcsol, birtokl, rk vesztes
s szerencstlen maradsz, vagy teljes szvvel
nekiltsz keresni az idtlen tkletessg llapott,
amihez semmi hozz nem adhat, amibl semmi el
nem vehet. Amibl minden vgy s flelem
hinyzik, nem azrt, mert feladtad azokat, hanem
mert rtelmket vesztettk.
K: Eddig tudtalak kvetni. Most, mit kell tennem?
M: Semmit nem kell tenni. Csak legyl. Ne tgy
semmit. Legyl. Se hegyekre mszs, se
barlangokban ls. Mg azt sem mondom: lgy
nmagad, mivel nem ismered nmagad. Csak
legyl. Tekintve, hogy sem az szlelhetk kls
vilga, sem az elgondolhatk bels vilga nem
vagy, hogy sem test, sem elme nem vagy csak
legyl.
K: Bizonyra vannak fokozatai a megvalsulsnak.
M: Nincsenek nmegvalstshoz vezet lpsek.
Ez egyltaln nem fokozatos. Hirtelen trtnik, s
visszafordthatatlan. tfordulsz egy j dimenziba,
amelybl az elzket puszta absztrakciknak ltod.
Ahogy napfelkeltekor gy ltod a dolgokat, ahogyan
azok vannak, pontosan gy ltsz az
nmegvalsulskor mindent gy, ahogyan van.
Elhagytad az illzik vilgt.
llapotban? Sznpompsakk s
jelentsgteljesekk vlnak?
M: Nagyszer tapasztalat, de az nem a valsg
(sadanubhav), hanem az univerzum harmnijnak
(satvanubhav) a tapasztalata.
K: Minazonltal, fejlds van.
M: Fejlds csak az elkszlet (sadhana) sorn
lehetsges. A megvalsuls hirtelen trtnik. A
gymlcs lassan rik, de hirtelen pottyan le, s
visszatrs nlkl.
K: Fizikai s mentlis bkben vagyok. Mi tbbre
lenne szksgem?
M: Nem lehetsz a vgs llapotban. A termszetes
llapotodba val visszatrst a vgyak s flelmek a
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
state by a complete absence of all desire and fear.
After all, at the root of all desire and fear is the
feeling of not being what you are. Just as a
dislocated joint pains only as long as it is out of
shape, and is forgotten as soon as it is set right, so
is all self-concern a symptom of mental distortion
which disappears as soon as one is in the normal
state.
Q: Yes, but what is the sadhana for achieving the
natural state?
M: Hold on to the sense 'I am' to the exclusion of
everything else. When thus the mind becomes
completely silent, it shines with a new light and
vibrates with new knowledge. It all comes
spontaneously, you need only hold on to the 'I am'.
Just like emerging from sleep or a state of rapture
you feel rested and yet you cannot explain why and
how you come to feel so well, in the same way on
realisation you feel complete, fulfilled, free from the
pleasure-pain complex, and yet not always able to
explain what happened, why and how. You can put it
only in negative terms: 'Nothing is wrong with me
any longer.' It is only by comparison with the past
that you know that you are out of it. Otherwise -- you
are just yourself. Don't try to convey it to others. If
you can, it is not the real thing. Be silent and watch it
expressing itself in action.
Q: If you could tell me what I shall become, it may
help me to watch over my development.
M: How can anybody tell you what you shall become
when there is no becoming? You merely discover
what you are. All moulding oneself to a pattern is a
grievous waste of time. Think neither of the past nor
of the future, just be.
Q: How can I just be? Changes are inevitable.
M: Changes are inevitable in the changeful, but you
are not subject to them. You are the changeless
background, against which changes are perceived.
Q: Everything changes, the background also
changes. There is no need of a changeless
background to notice changes. The self is
momentary -- it is merely the point where the past
meets the future.
M: Of course the self based on memory is
momentary. But such self demands unbroken
continuity behind it. You know from experience that
307
teljes hinyrl fogod felismerni. Vgl is, az sszes
vgy s flelem gykere az az rzs, hogy nem
akknt ltezel, ami vagy. Ahogy egy ujj ficam is csak
addig fj, ameddig el van formtlanodva, s rgtn
megfeledkezel rla, amint a helyre kerlt, pp gy
minden nmagaddal val trds is egy mentlis
torzulsi tnet, amely azonnal eltnik, mihelyt az
ember a normlis llapotban van.
K: Igen, de mi a termszetes llapot elrsnek a
sadhanja?
M: Tartsd fenn az n vagyok rzst, hogy kizrj
minden mst. Amikor ily mdon az elme teljesen
csendess vlik, j fnnyel ragyog, s j tudstl
vibrl. Mindez spontn mdon kvetkezik be, a te
rszedrl csak az n vagyok fenntartsra van
szksg. Mint amikor lombl vagy extzisbl
kilpve kipihentnek rzed magad, s nem tudod
megmagyarzni mirt, s mitl rzed olyan jl
magad, ugyangy rzed magad megvalsulskor
teljesnek, befejezettnek, lvezet-fjdalom
komplexustl mentesnek, s nem mindig tudod
megmagyarzni, hogy mi trtnt, mirt, s hogyan.
Csak negatv kifejezsekkel tudod lerni: minden
bajom megsznt. Csak a mlttal val
sszehasonlts miatt tudod, hogy tl vagy rajta.
Egybknt egyszeren csak nmagad vagy. Ne
prbld tolmcsolni msok fel. Ha sikerlne, akkor
az nem lenne valsgos dolog. Lgy csendben, s
figyeld, ahogy az mkdsben kifejezi magt.
K: Ha meg tudnd mondani, hogy miv fogok vlni,
az segtsget jelenthetne szmomra, a fejldsemet
figyelve.
M: Hogyan tudn brki elmondani, hogy miv vlsz,
amikor nem ltezik valamiv vls? Fedezd fel
csupn, hogy mi vagy. Mindenfle minthoz
idomuls fjdalmas idpazarls. Ne gondolj se a
mltra, se a jvre, csak legyl.
K: Hogyan tudnk csak lenni? A vltozsok
elkerlhetetlenek.
M: A vltozkony vltozsai elkerlhetetlenek, de te
nem vagy vltozsoknak alvetett. Te vagy a
vltozatlan httr, amely eltt a vltozsok
szlelhetk.
K: Minden vltozik, a httr is vltozik. Nincs
szksg vltozatlan httrre a vltozsok
megfigyelshez. Az n pillanatnyi csupn egy
pont, amelyben a mlt rintkezik a jvvel.
M: Termszetesen az emlkezet alap n
pillanatnyi. De az ilyen n megszakts nlkli
folytonossgot kvn maga mgtt. Tapasztalatbl
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
there are gaps when your self is forgotten. What
brings it back to life? What wakes you up in the
morning? There must be some constant factor
bridging the gaps in consciousness. If you watch
carefully you will find that even your daily
consciousness is in flashes, with gaps intervening all
the time. What is in the gaps? What can there be but
your real being, that is timeless; mind and
mindlessness are one to it.
tudod, hogy az emlkezetben kiessek vannak,
amikor az n a feleds homlyba merl. Mi az,
amitl visszatr az letbe? Mi az, ami reggel
felbreszt tged? Kell lennie valamilyen lland
tnyeznek, ami thidalja a tudatossg hzagait. Ha
gondosan figyelsz, szre fogod venni, hogy mg
mindennapos tudatossgod is villog, szakadatlanul
hzagok lpnek fel benne. Mi van a hzagokban?
Ami ott van, az csak a te valdi lted lehet, amely
idtlen; elme s elmenlklisg egyek a szmra.

Q: Is there any particular place you would advise me K: Ajnlanl-e szmomra valamilyen klnleges
to go to for spiritual attainment? helyet, ahov elmehetnk, hogy spiritulisan
megvalstsam nmagam?

M: The only proper place is within. The outer world
neither can help nor hinder. No system, no pattern
of action will take you to your goal. Give up all
working for a future, concentrate totally on the now,
be concerned only with your response to every
movement of life as it happens.
M: Az egyetlen alkalmas hely bell van. A kls
vilg nem tud sem segteni, sem akadlyozni.
Semmilyen rendszer, semmilyen cselekvsi minta
nem fog tged a clodhoz elvinni. Hagyj fel minden
jvrt val tnykedssel, koncentrlj teljesen a
mostra, trdj csupn az leted mozzanataira adott
vlaszoddal.

Q: What is the cause of the urge to roam about? K: Mi idzi el a kalandozsra val sztnzst?

M: There is no cause. You merely dream that you
roam about. In a few years your stay in India will
appear as a dream to you. You will dream some
other dream at that time. Do realise that it is not you
who moves from dream to dream, but the dreams
flow before you and you are the immutable witness.
No happening affects your real being -- this is the
absolute truth.
M: Nincs semmifle oka. Pusztn csak lmodod,
hogy kalandozol. Nhny ven bell az indiai
tartzkodsod lomnak fog tnni szmodra. Sok
ms lmot fogsz lmodni ugyanakkor. Ismerd fel,
hogy nem te mozogsz lomrl lomra, hanem az
lom az, ami elhmplyg eltted, s te a
vltozhatatlan tan vagy. Semmilyen esemny nincs
hatssal valdi ltedre ez az abszolt igazsg.

Q: Cannot I move about physically and keep steady K: Nem tudok fizikailag mozogni, s belsleg
inwardly? llandnak maradni?

M: You can, but what purpose does it serve? If you
are earnest, you will find that in the end you will get
fed up with roaming and regret the waste of energy
and time. To find your self you need not take a
single step.
M: Tudsz, de mi clt szolglna? Ha komoly vagy, r
fogsz jnni vgl, hogy torkig lettl a kalandozssal,
s sajnlni fogod az elpazarolt energit s idt.
ned megtallshoz egy lpst sem kell tenned.

Q: Is there any difference between the experience of K: Van valamilyen klnbsg az n (atman) s az
the Self (atman) and of the Absolute (brahman)? Abszolt (brahman) tapasztalata kztt?

M: There can be no experience of the Absolute as it
is beyond all experience. On the other hand, the self
is the experiencing factor in every experience and
thus, in a way, validates the multiplicity of
experiences. The world may be full of things of great
value, but if there is nobody to buy them, they have
no price. The Absolute contains everything
experienceable, but without the experience they are
as nothing. That which makes the experience
possible is the Absolute. That which makes it actual
is the Self.
M: Az Abszolt nem tapasztalhat, mert minden
tapasztals fltt ll. Msfell, az n a tapasztal
elem minden tapasztalatban, gy bizonyos mdon,
igazolja a tapasztalatok sokflesgt. A vilg tele
lehet nagyon rtkes dolgokkal, de ha senki nincs,
aki megvegye azokat, nincs ruk. Az Abszolt
tartalmazza az sszes tapasztalhatt, de a
tapasztalat hjn ezek mintha semmik se lennnek.
Ami a tapasztalatot lehetv teszi, az Abszolt. Ami
valban ltezv teszi, az n.

Q: Don't we reach the Absolute through a gradation K: Az Abszoltat nem tapasztalatok fokozatain
of experiences? Beginning with the grossest, we end keresztl rjk el? Kezdetben a durvbbakkal, s a

308
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
with the most sublime.
M: There can be no experience without desire for it.
There can be gradation between desires, but
between the most sublime desire and the freedom
from all desire there is an abyss which must be
crossed. The unreal may look real, but it is transient.
The real is not afraid of time.
Q: Is not the unreal the expression of the real?
M: How can it be? It is like saying that truth
expresses itself in dreams. To the real the unreal is
not. It appears to be real only because you believe
in it. Doubt it, and it ceases. When you are in love
with somebody, you give it reality -- you imagine
your love to be all-powerful and everlasting. When it
comes to an end, you say: 'I thought it was real, but
it wasn't'. Transiency is the best proof of unreality.
What is limited in time and space, and applicable to
one person only, is not real. The real is for all and
forever.
Above everything else you cherish yourself. You
would accept nothing in exchange for your
existence. The desire to be is the strongest of all
desires and will go only on the realisation of your
true nature.
Q: Even in the unreal there is a touch of reality.
M: Yes, the reality you impart to it by taking it to be
real. Having convinced yourself, you are bound by
your conviction. When the sun shines, colours
appear. When it sets, they disappear. Where are the
colours without the light?
Q: This is thinking in terms of duality.
M: All thinking is in duality. In identity no thought
survives.
70. God is the End of All Desire and
Knowledge
Maharaj: Where are you coming from? What have
you come for?
Questioner: I come from America and my friend is
from the Republic of Ireland. I came about six
months ago and I was travelling from Ashram to
Ashram. My friend came on his own.
M: What have you seen?
309
vgn a legfinomabbakkal.
M: Nem lehetsges tapasztalat arra irnyul vgy
nlkl. Lehet fokozatossg a vgyak kztt, de a
legfinomabb vgy s a minden vgytl val
szabadsg kztt szakadk van, amit t kell hidalni.
A valtlan ltszhat valdinak, de mland. A valdin
nem fog az id.
K: A valtlan nem a valdi megnyilvnulsa?
M: Hogy lehetne az? Ez olyan, mint azt mondani,
hogy az igazsg lmokban nyilvntan ki nmagt.
Valjban az nem valdi. Csak azrt ltszik
valdinak, mert hiszel benne. Vond ktsgbe, s
megsznik. Amikor szerelmes vagy valakibe, azt
valsgnak tartod szerelmedet korltlannak, s
rkk tartnak kpzeled. Amikor vget r, azt
mondod: azt hittem, igazi volt, de nem volt az. A
mlandsg a valszertlensg legjobb bizonytka.
Ami idben s trben korltos, s csak egy szemly
esetn alkalmazhat, az nem valdi. A valdi
mindenki szmra az, s mindrkk.
Minden egyebet fellmlan szereted nmagad.
Nem fogadnl el semmit a ltezsedrt cserbe. A
lenni irnti vgy minden vgy kztt a legersebb,
s csak valdi termszeted megvalstsa utn fog
eltnni.
K: Mg a valtlanban is ott van a valsg rintse.
M: Igen, azltal rszested a valsgban, hogy
valdinak tartod. Meggyzdsed ltal meggyzvn
nmagad, megkttt vlsz ltala. Amikor st a nap,
megjelennek a sznek. Amikor lemegy, eltnnek. A
fny hinyban hol vannak a sznek?
K: Ez a dualits kifejezseiben trtn gondolkods.
M: Minden gondolkods a dualitsban trtnik. A
teljes megegyezsgben egy gondolat sem marad
fenn.
70. Isten a vge minden vgynak s
tudsnak
Maharaj: Honnan jssz? Mi hozott ide?
Krdez: Amerikbl jttem, a bartom pedig az r
Kztrsasgbl. Krlbell hat hnapja vagyok itt,
Ashramrl Ashramra utazgatok. A bartom egyedl
jtt.
M: Mit lttl?
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: I have been at Sri Ramanashram and also I have K: Voltam a Sri Ramanashramban, s elltogattam
visited Rishikesh. Can I ask you what is your opinion Rishikeshbe is. Megkrdezhetem, hogy mi a
of Sri Ramana Maharshi? vlemnyed Sri Ramana Maharshirl?

M: We are both in the same ancient state. But what M: Mindketten ugyanazon si llapotban vagyunk.
do you know of Maharshi? You take yourself to be a De mit tudsz Maharsirl? nmagadat nvnek s
name and a body, so all you perceive are names testnek tartod, gy te csupn neveket s testeket
and bodies. rzkelsz.

Q: Were you to meet the Maharshi, what would K: Mi lett volna, ha tallkoztok Maharsival?
happen?

M: Probably we would feel quite happy. We may M: Biztos nagyon rltnk volna egymsnak.
even exchange a few words. Vlthattunk volna pr szt.

Q: But would he recognise you as a liberated man? K: De megszabadult embernek ismert volna fel
tged?

M: Of course. As a man recognises a man, so a M: Termszetesen. Ahogy az egyik ember felismeri

gnani recognises a gnani. You cannot appreciate
what you have not experienced. You are what you
think yourself to be, but you cannot think yourself to
be what you have not experienced.
a msik embert, ugyangy az egyik gnani is felismeri
a msik gnanit. Nem rtkelheted azt, amit nem
tapasztaltl. Az vagy, aminek gondolod magad, de
nem gondolhatod magad annak, amit nem
tapasztaltl.

Q: To become an engineer I must learn engineering. K: A mrnkk vlshoz mrnki tudomnyokat kell
To become God, what must I learn? tanulnom. Az Istenn vlshoz mit kell tanulnom?

M: You must unlearn everything. God is the end of M: El kell felejtened mindent. Isten minden vgynak
all desire and knowledge. s tudsnak a vge.

Q: You mean to say that I become God merely by K: Azt akarod mondani, hogy Istenn vlok pusztn
giving up the desire to become God? az Istenn vls vgynak a feladsval?

M: All desires must be given up, because by M: Minden vgyat fel kell adni, mert vgyakozssal
desiring you take the shape of your desires. When adod meg a formjt a vgyaidnak. Amikor
no desires remain, you revert to your natural state. semmilyen vgy nem marad, visszatrsz
termszetes llapotodba.

Q: How do I come to know that I have achieved K: Honnan fogom tudni, hogy elrtem a
perfection? tkletessget?

M: You can not know perfection, you can know only
imperfection. For knowledge to be, there must be
separation and disharmony. You can know what you
are not, but you can not know your real being. You
can be only what you are. The entire approach is
through understanding, which is in the seeing of the
false as false. But to understand, you must observe
from outside.
M: Nem tudhatod a tkletessgrl, csak a
tkletlensgrl tudhatsz. A lt ismerethez
elklnls, s diszharmnia szksges. Te azt
ismerheted, hogy mi nem vagy, de valdi ltedet
nem ismerheted. Lehetsz csak, ami vagy. Az egsz
megkzelts megrtst felttelez, ami nem ms,
mint a hamisat hamisnak ltni. De a megrtshez
kvlrl kell figyelned.

Q: The Vedantic concept of Maya, illusion, applies to
the manifested. Therefore our knowledge of the
manifested is unreliable. But we should be able to
trust our knowledge of the unmanifested.
K: A megnyilvnultra a Maya,az illzi vdantikus
elve vonatkozik. Emiatt a megnyilvnulttal
kapcsolatos tudsunk megbzhatatlan. De kpesnek
kell lennnk megbzni a megnyilvnulatlanra
vonatkoz tudsunkban.

M: There can be no knowledge of the unmanifested. M: Nem lehetsges ismerni a megnyilvnulatlant. A

The potential is unknowable. Only the actual can be lehetsges megismerhetetlen. Csak a valsgosan
known. ltez ismerhet.

310
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: Why should the knower remain unknown?
M: The knower knows the known. Do you know the
knower? Who is the knower of the knower? You
want to know the unmanifested. Can you say you
know the manifested?
Q: I know things and ideas and their relations. It is
the sum total of all my experiences.
M: All?
Q: Well, all actual experiences. I admit I cannot
know what did not happen.
M: If the manifested is the sum total of all actual
experiences, including their experiencers, how much
of the total do you know? A very small part indeed.
And what is the little you know?
Q: Some sensory experiences as related to myself.
M: Not even that. You only know that you react.
Who reacts and to what, you do not know. You know
on contact that you exist -- 'I am'. The 'I am this', 'I
am that' are imaginary.
Q: I know the manifested because I participate in it. I
admit, my part in it is very small, yet it is as real as
the totality of it. And what is more important, I give it
meaning. Without me the world is dark and silent.
M: A firefly illumining the world. You don't give
meaning to the world, you find it. Dive deep into
yourself and find the source from where all meaning
flows. Surely it is not the superficial mind that can
give meaning.
Q: What makes me limited and superficial?
M: The total is open and available, but you will not
take it. You are attached to the little person you think
yourself to be. Your desires are narrow, your
ambitions -- petty. After all, without a centre of
perception where would be the manifested?
Unperceived, the manifested is as good as the
unmanifested. And you are the perceiving point, the
non-dimensional source of all dimensions. Know
yourself as the total.
Q: How can a point contain a universe?
M: There is enough space in a point for an infinity of
universes. There is no lack of capacity. Self-
limitation is the only problem. But you cannot run
away from yourself. However far you go, you come
back to yourself and to the need of understanding
311
K: Mirt kell, hogy az ismer ismeretlen maradjon?
M: Az ismer az ismertet ismeri. Ismered az
ismert? Ki az ismer ismerje? A
megnyilvnulatlant akarod ismerni. Mondhatod azt,
hogy ismered a megnyilvnulatlant?
K: Ismerek dolgokat s idekat, s azok viszonyait.
Ez az sszes tapasztalatom teljessge.
M: Az sszes?
K: Nos, minden valsgos tapasztalatomnak.
Beismerem, ami nem trtnt meg, arrl nem tudok.
M: Ha a megnyilvnult a valsgos tapasztalatok
sszessge, tapasztalikat is belertve, mennyi
ismereted van sszesen? Valjban nagyon kevs.
s mi az a kevs, amit ismersz?
K: Nhny velem kapcsolatos rzki tapasztalat.
M: Mg ezt se. Csak azt tudod, hogy reaglsz. Hogy
ki reagl, s mire, azt nem tudod. Tudod az
rintkezsben, hogy ltezel n vagyok. Az n ez
vagyok, n az vagyok kpzelet szlte dolgok.
K: Azrt ismerem a megnyilvnultat, mert rszese
vagyok. Elismerem, a rszesedsem nagyon kicsi,
mgis, annyira valdi, mint amennyire teljes. s ami
mg fontosabb, n hatrozom meg a jelentst.
Nlklem a vilg stt s csendes.
M: A szentjnosbogr is megvilgtja a vilgot. Nem
hatrozod meg a vilg jelentst, felfedezed azt.
Merlj el mlyen nmagadba, s fedezd fel a forrst,
ahonnan minden jelents ered. Biztos, hogy nem a
felsznes elme szolgltatja a jelentst.
K: Mi tesz engem korltozott s felszness?
M: A teljessg nyitott s elrhet, de te nem viseled
el. Te ahhoz a kis szemlyhez ktdsz, akinek
gondolod magad. Vgyaid kicsinyesek, ambciid
kisszerek. Vgl is, az szlelsi kzponton kvl
hol lehetne a megnyilvnult? s te vagy az szlel
pont, az sszes dimenzi dimenzi nlkli forrsa.
Ismerd magad a teljessgknt.
K: Hogy tudn egy pont magban foglalni az
univerzumot?
M: Egy pontban vgtelen sok univerzum szmra
van hely. Nincs hjn befogadkpessgnek. Az
nkorltozs az egyetlen problma. De nem
meneklhetsz el nmagad ell. Akrmilyen messze
msz, nmagadhoz trsz vissza, s e pont
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
this point, which is as nothing and yet the source of
everything.
Q: I came to India in search of a Yoga teacher. I am
still in search.
M: What kind of Yoga do you want to practice, the
Yoga of getting, or the Yoga of giving up?
Q: Don't they come to the same in the end?
M: How can they? One enslaves, the other liberates. M: Hogy vezethetnnek mr? Az egyik rabszolgv
The motive matters supremely. Freedom comes tesz, a msik megszabadt. Az indtk az, ami
through renunciation. All possession is bondage. leginkbb szmt. A szabadsg lemondson
keresztl jn el. Minden birtokls rabsg.
Q: What I have the strength and the courage to hold
on to, why should I give up? And if I have not the
strength, how can I give up? I do not understand this
need of giving up. When I want something, why
should I not pursue it? Renunciation is for the weak.
M: If you do not have the wisdom and the strength to
give up, just look at your possessions. Your mere
looking will burn them up. If you can stand outside
your mind, you will soon find that total renunciation
of possessions and desires is the most obviously
reasonable thing to do. You create the world and
then worry about it. Becoming selfish makes you
weak. If you think you have the strength and
courage to desire, it is because you are young and
inexperienced. Invariably the object of desire
destroys the means of acquiring it and then itself
withers away. It is all for the best, because it teaches
you to shun desire like poison.
Q: How am I to practice desirelessness?
M: No need of practice. No need of any acts of
renunciation. Just turn your mind away, that is all.
Desire is merely the fixation of the mind on an idea.
Get it out of its groove by denying it attention.
Q: That is all?
M: Yes, that is all. Whatever may be the desire or
fear, don't dwell upon it. Try and see for yourself.
Here and there you may forget, it does not matter.
Go back to your attempts till the brushing away of
every desire and fear, of every reaction becomes
automatic.
Q: How can one live without emotions?
M: You can have all the emotions you want, but
beware of reactions, of induced emotions. Be
312
megrtsnek a szksgessghez, amely
brmennyire semmi, mgis mindennek a forrsa.
K: Indiba jttem, hogy Yoga tanrt talljak. Mg
mindig keresem.
M: Milyen Yogt akarsz gyakorolni, a szerzs
Yogjt, vagy a lemonds Yogjt?
K: Nem ugyanoda vezetnek vgl?
K: Amg erm s btorsgom nem hagynak el, mirt
kellene feladnom? s ha nem az enym az er,
hogy adhatnm fel? Nem rtem ennek a feladsnak
a szksgessgt. Ha akarok valamit, mirt ne
prblhatnm megszerezni? A lemonds a
gyengnek val.
M: Ha nincs meg a blcsessged s az erd a
feladshoz, csak szemlld a javaidat. A puszta
szemllseddel el fogod ket emszteni. Ha kvl
tudsz maradni az elmden, hamarosan fel fogod
fedezni, hogy a javakrl s vgyakrl val teljes
lemonds a leg magtl rtetdbb dolog, amit
tenned kell. Ltrehozod a vilgot, majd gytrdsz
miatta. Az nzv vls gyengv tesz. Ha azt
gondolod, hogy megvan az erd s a btorsgod a
vgyakozshoz, ez amiatt fiatalsgod s
tapasztalatlansgod miatt van. A vgy trgya mindig
lerombolja a szerzs eszkzeit, s aztn maga is
elsorvad. Jl van ez gy, mert megtanulod, hogy gy
kerld a vgyat, mint a mrget.
K: Hogyan kell gyakorolnom a vgytalansgot?
M: Semmifle gyakorlsra nincs szksg.
Semmifle lemondsi intzkedsekre nincs szksg.
Csak fordtsd flre az elmdet, ez minden. A vgy
pusztn az elmnek egy idera val rgztse.
Tvoltsd el ennek a szokst a figyelem
megtagadsval.
K: Ez minden?
M: Igen, ez minden. Brmilyen vgy vagy flelem
rdtr, ne idzz azokon. Trekedj erre, s figyeld
magad. Megfeledkezhetsz rla hbe-hba, ez nem
problma. Trj vissza a trekvshez mindaddig,
amg minden vgy s flelem, minden reakci
lefricskzsa automatikuss nem vlik.
K: Hogy lehet lni rzelmek nlkl?
M: Mindenfle rzelmeid lehetnek, amilyet csak
akarsz, de rizkedj a reakciktl, a gerjesztett
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
entirely self-determined and ruled from within, not
from without. Merely giving up a thing to secure a
better one is not true relinquishment. Give it up
because you see its valuelessness. As you keep on
giving up, you will find that you grow spontaneously
in intelligence and power and inexhaustible love and
joy.
Q: Why so much insistence on relinquishing all
desires and fears? Are they not natural?
M: They are not. They are entirely mind-made. You
have to give up everything to know that you need
nothing, not even your body. Your needs are unreal
and your efforts are meaningless. You imagine that
your possessions protect you. In reality they make
you vulnerable. Realise yourself as away from all
that can be pointed at as 'this' or 'that'. You are
unreachable by any sensory experience or verbal
construction. Turn away from them. Refuse to
impersonate.
Q: After I have heard you, what am I to do?
M: Only hearing will not help you much. You must
keep it in mind and ponder over it and try to
understand the state of mind which makes me say
what I say. I speak from truth; stretch your hand and
take it. You are not what you think yourself to be, I
assure you. The image you have of yourself is made
up from memories and is purely accidental.
Q: What I am is the result of my karma.
M: What you appear to be, you are not. Karma is
only a word you have learnt to repeat. You have
never been, nor shall ever be a person. Refuse to
consider yourself as one. But as long as you do not
even doubt yourself to be a Mr. So-and-so, there is
little hope. When you refuse to open your eyes, what
can you be shown?
Q: I imagine karma to be a mysterious power that
urges me towards perfection.
M: That's what people told you. You are already
perfect, here and now. The perfectible is not you.
You imagine yourself to be what you are not -- stop
it. It is the cessation that is important, not what you
are going to stop.
Q: Did not karma compel me to become what I am?
M: Nothing compels. You are as you believe
313
rzelmektl. Teljesen nmagad hatrozzon meg, s
a bels uraljon, ne a kls. Ha azrt mondasz le
csupn egy dologrl, hogy egy jobbat biztosts
magadnak, az nem igazi felads. Azrt add fel, mert
ltod az rtktelensgt. Ha kitartasz a felads
mellett, gy fogod tallni, hogy intelligencid, erd,
kimerthetetlen szereteted s rmed spontn
mdon nvekszik.
K: Mirt hangslyozod annyira a minden vgyrl s
flelemrl val lemondst? Ezek nem termszetes
dolgok?
M: Nem azok. Kizrlag elme-gyrtotta dolgok. Fel
kell adnod mindent ahhoz, hogy megtudd, nincs
szksged semmire, mg a testedre sem.
Szksgleteid nem valsgosak, s trekvseid
rtelmetlenek. Azt kpzeled, hogy javaid
megvdenek. Valjban sebezhetv tesznek.
Ismerd nmagad minden olyantl tvol llnak,
amire gy lehet rmutatni, mint ez, vagy az.
Elrhetetlen vagy mindenfle rzki tapasztals,
vagy verblis konstrukci szmra. Fordulj el tlk.
Utastsd el a megszemlyestst.
K: Miutn vgighallgattalak, mit kell tennem?
M: A puszta meghallgatsa nem tl sokat segt.
szben kell tartanod, s elmlkedned kell felette, s
trekedned kell az elme azon llapotnak a
megrtsre, amely azt mondatja velem, amit
mondok. n a valsgbl beszlek; nyjtsd ki a
kezed, s ragadd meg. Biztostalak, te nem az vagy,
aminek nmagadat gondolod. A kp, amellyel
nmagadrl rendelkezel emlkekbl ll, s csupn
vletlenszer.
K: Ami vagyok, az a karmm eredmnye.
M: Aminek lenni ltszol, az nem te vagy. A karma
csak egy sz, amely megtanultl, s ismtelgeted.
Soha nem voltl, s soha nem leszel szemly.
Utastsd el, hogy annak tekintsd magad. De amg
ktsge sem merl fel benned azirnt, hogy Mr. Ez-
s-ez vagy, kevs a remny. Ha nem akarod kinyitni
a szemed, mit lthatnl?
K: A karmt egy olyan misztikus ernek kpzelem,
amely engem a tkleteseds fel knyszert.
M: Ez az, amit az emberektl hallottl. Te mr
tkletes vagy, itt, s most. A tkletesedsre kpes
nem te vagy. Annak kpzeled nmagad, ami nem
vagy hagyd abba. A megszns a fontos, nem
amit lelltani kszlsz.
K: Nem a karma knyszert r, hogy az legyek, aki
vagyok?
M: Semmi nem knyszert. Az vagy, aminek hiszed
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
yourself to be. Stop believing.
Q: Here you are sitting on your seat and talking to
me. What compels you is your karma.
M: Nothing compels me. I do what needs doing. But
you do so many unnecessary things. It is your
refusal to examine that creates karma. It is the
indifference to your own suffering that perpetuates it.
Q: Yes, it is true. What can put an end to this
indifference?
M: The urge must come from within as a wave of
detachment, or compassion.
Q: Could I meet this urge half way?
M: Of course. See your own condition, see the
condition of the world.
Q: We were told about karma and reincarnation, K: Karmrl, reinkarncirl, evolcirl, Yogrl,
evolution and Yoga, masters and disciples. What are mesterekrl s tantvnyokrl hallottunk tled. Mit
we to do with all this knowledge? kezdjnk mindezzel a tudssal?
M: Leave it all behind you. Forget it. Go forth,
unburdened with ideas and beliefs. Abandon all
verbal structures, all relative truth, all tangible
objectives. The Absolute can be reached by
absolute devotion only. Don't be half-hearted.
Q: I must begin with some absolute truth. Is there
any?
M: Yes, there is, the feeling: 'I am'. Begin with that.
Q: Nothing else is true?
M: All else is neither true nor false. It seems real
when it appears, it disappears when it is denied. A
transient thing is a mystery.
Q: I thought the real is the mystery.
M: How can it be? The real is simple, open, clear
and kind, beautiful and joyous. It is completely free
of contradictions. It is ever new, ever fresh,
endlessly creative. Being and non-being, life and
death, all distinctions merge in it.
Q: I can admit that all is false. But, does it make my
mind nonexistent?
M: The mind is what it thinks. To make it true, think
true.
Q: If the shape of things is mere appearance, what
are they in reality?
314
magad. Ne higgy tovbb.
K: A szkeden lsz, s beszlgetsz velem. Ami erre
knyszert tged, az a karmd.
M: Semmi nem knyszert engem. Teszem, amit
tennem szksges. A vizsglds irnti elutastsod
hozza ltre a karmt. A sajt szenvedsed irnti
nemtrdmsged pedig fenntartja azt.
K: Igen, ez igaz. Mi vethet vget ennek a
nemtrdmsgnek?
M: A ksztetsnek bellrl, a prtatlansg, vagy a
rszvt hullmaknt kell jnnie.
K: Tallkozhatnk flton ezzel a ksztetssel?
M: Termszetesen. Lsd sajt feltteleidet, s ltod
a feltteleit a vilgnak.
M: Hagyd az egszet magad mgtt. Felejtsd el.
Menj tovbb, az idek s hitel terhtl
megszabadultan. Vess el minden verblis struktrt,
minden relatv igazsgot, minden nyilvnval clt.
Az Abszolt csak teljes nfelldozssal rhet el.
Ne lgy kishit.
K: Valamilyen rk rvny igazsggal kell
kezdenem. Van ilyen?
M: Igen van, az n vagyok rzs. Kezdd ezzel.
K: Semmi ms nem igaz?
M: Az sszes tbbi se nem igaz, se nem hamis.
Igaznak ltszik, mikor megjelenik, s eltnik, mikor
hamisnak bizonyul. A mland dolog rejtlyes.
K: n gy gondolom, hogy a valsg a rejtlyes.
M: Hogy lehetne az? A valsg egyszer, nyitott,
tiszta s jsgos, szp s rmteli. Teljessggel
ellentmondsmentes. rkk j, rkk friss,
vgtelenl kreatv. Lt s nemlt, let s hall,
minden klnbsg beleolvad.
K: El tudom fogadni, hogy minden hamis. De ez
nem ltezv teszi az elmmet?
M: Az elme az, amit gondol. Hogy igazz tedd,
gondolj igazat.
K: Ha a dolgok formja ltszat csupn, akkor mik
valjban a dolgok?
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
M: In reality there is only perception. The perceiver
and the perceived are conceptual, the fact of
perceiving is actual.
Q: Where does the Absolute come in?
M: The Absolute is the birthplace of Perceiving. It
makes perception possible.
But too much analysis leads you nowhere. There is
in you the core of being which is beyond analysis,
beyond the mind. You can know it in action only.
Express it in daily life and its light will grow ever
brighter.
The legitimate function of the mind is to tell you what Az elmnek szablyszeren az a funkcija, hogy
is not. But if you want positive knowledge, you must arrl beszl neked, ami nincs. De ha tnyleges
go beyond the mind.
Q: In all the universe is there one single thing of
value?
M: Yes, the power of love.
71. In Self-awareness you Learn about
Yourself
Questioner: It is our repeated experience that the
disciples do much harm to their Gurus. They make
plans and carry them out, without considering the
Guru's wishes. In the end there is only endless worry
for the Guru and bitterness for his disciples.
Maharaj: Yes, it does happen.
Q: Who compels the Guru to submit to these
indignities?
M: The Guru is basically without desire. He sees
what happens, but feels no urge to interfere. He
makes no choices, takes no decisions. As pure
witness, he watches what is going on and remains
unaffected.
Q: But his work suffers.
M: Victory is always his -- in the end. He knows that
if the disciples do not learn from his words, they will
learn from their own mistakes. Inwardly he remains
quiet and silent. He has no sense of being a
separate person. The entire universe is his own,
including his disciples with their petty plans. Nothing
in particular affects him, or, which comes to the
same, the entire universe affects him in equal
measure.
Q: Is there no such thing as the Guru's grace?
315
M: A dolgok valjban csak szleletek. Az szlel
s az szlelt fogalmiak, az szlels tnye valsgos.
K: Honnan jn be az Abszolt?
M: Az Abszolt az szlelsnek a szletsi helye.
teszi lehetv az szlelst.
De tlsgosan sok elemzs sehov nem vezet.
Benned van a lt kzpontja, amely meghaladja az
elemzst, meghaladja az elmt. Amit csak
mkdsben ismerhetsz. Fejezd ki a napi letben,
s fnynek ragyogsa egyre nvekedni fog.
tudst akarsz, meg kell haladnod az elmt.
K: Az egsz univerzumban csak egyetlen egy
dolognak van rtke?
M: Igen, a szeretet erejnek.
71. Az n-figyels sorn nmagadrl
tanulsz
Krdez: A tantvnyok rendszerint sok bajt
okoznak Guruiknak. Guruik kvnsgait figyelmen
kvl hagyva dolgozzk ki s hajtjk vgre terveiket.
Ennek eredmnye vgtelen aggds a Guru, s
kesersg a tantvnya rszrl.
Maharaj: Igen, ez trtnik.
K: Ki az, aki a Gurut e mltatlansgok elfogadsra
knyszerti?
M: A Guru alapjban vve vgyak nlkli. Ltja,
hogy mi trtnik, de nem rez ksztetst, hogy
kzbeavatkozzon. Nincsenek vlasztsai, nem hoz
dntseket. Tiszta tanknt szemlli a trtnst, ami
t nem rinti.
K: De a munkja elszenvedi.
M: A gyzelem mindig az v a vgn. Tudja, ha a
tantvny nem tanul az szavaibl, majd tanul a
sajt hibibl. Belsleg nyugodt s csendes marad.
Nincs olyan rzse, hogy elklnl szemlyknt
ltezne. Az egsz univerzum benne van, belertve
tantvnyait is, azok jelentktelen terveivel
egyetemben. Semmi nem hat r klnsebben,
vagy, ami ugyanaz, az egsz univerzum egyenl
mrtkben hat r.
K: Nem ltezik olyasmi, mint a Guru kegyelme?
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
M: His grace is constant and universal. It is not
given to one and denied to another.
Q: How does it affect me personally?
M: It is by The Guru's grace that your mind is
engaged in search for truth and it is by his grace that
you will find it. It works unwaveringly towards your
ultimate good. And it is for all.
Q: Some disciples are ready, mature, and some are
not. Must not the Guru exercise choice and make
decisions?
M: The Guru knows the Ultimate and relentlessly
propels the disciple towards it. The disciple is full of
obstacles, which he himself must overcome. The
Guru is not very much concerned with the
superficialities of the disciple's life. It is like
gravitation. The fruit must fall -- when no longer held
back.
Q: If the disciple does not know the goal, how can
he make out the obstacles?
M: The goal is shown by the Guru, obstacles are
discovered by the disciple. The Guru has no
preferences, but those who have obstacles to
overcome seem to be lagging behind.
In reality the disciple is not different from the Guru.
He is the same dimensionless centre of perception
and love in action. It is only his imagination and self-
identification with the imagined, that encloses him
and converts him into a person. The Guru is
concerned little with the person. His attention is on
the inner watcher. It is the task of the watcher to
understand and thereby eliminate the person. While
there is grace on one side, there must be dedication
to the task on the other.
Q: But the person does not want to be eliminated.
M: The person is merely the result of a
misunderstanding. In reality, there is no such thing.
Feelings, thoughts and actions race before the
watcher in endless succession, leaving traces in the
brain and creating an illusion of continuity. A
reflection of the watcher in the mind creates the
sense of 'I' and the person acquires an apparently
independent existence. In reality there is no person,
only the watcher identifying himself with the 'I' and
the 'mine'. The teacher tells the watcher: you are not
this, there is nothing of yours in this, except the little
point of 'I am', which is the bridge between the
watcher and his dream. I am this, I am that' is
dream, while pure 'I am' has the stamp of reality on
it. You have tasted so many things -- all came to
316
M: Az kegyelme lland s egyetemes. Nem tesz
olyat, hogy megadja az egyiknek, s megtagadja a
msiktl.
K: Hogy rint ez engem szemlyesen?
M: Az elmd a Guru kegyelme rvn jegyzi el magt
az igazsggal, s az kegyelme rvn fogod azt
megtallni. Belsleg mkdik, megingathatatlanul, a
te vgs javad irnyban. s ez minden clja.
K: Egyes tantvnyok felkszltek, rettek, msok
pedig nem. Nem a Gurunak kell vlasztania, s
dntenie?
M: A Guru ismeri a Legvgst, s a tantvnyt
folytonosan afel sarkallja. A tantvny tele van
akadlyokkal, amelyek fltt maga kell, hogy
gyzedelmeskedjen. A Guru nem sokat trdik a
tantvny letnek a felsznessgeivel. Ez olyan,
mint a gravitci. A gymlcsnek le kell pottyannia
amikor tbb mr semmi nem tartja vissza.
K: Ha a tantvny nem ismeri a clt, hogy boldogul
az akadlyokkal?
M: A Guru megmutatja a clt, a tantvny felfedezi
az akadlyokat. A Guru nem kedvez senkinek, de
akinek az akadlyai legyzsvel kell foglalkoznia,
gy tnik, annak htrbb kell maradnia.
Valjban a tantvny nem klnbzik a Gurutl.
az szlels s a cselekv szeretet ugyanazon
dimenzi nlkli kzpontja. Csak kpzelete, s az
elkpzelttel val n-azonosulsa, ami t krlzrja,
s szemlly vltoztatja. A Guru nem sokat trdik a
szemllyel. Az figyelme a bels figyelre irnyul. A
figyelnek az a feladata, hogy megrtse, s ily
mdon megsemmistse a szemlyt. Mikzben
kegyelem van az egyik oldalon, a feladat irnti
elszntsg kell, hogy legyen a msikon.
K: De a szemly nem akarja, hogy megsemmistsk.
M: A szemly csupn egy flrerts eredmnye.
rzsek, gondolatok s cselekvsek szguldanak
vgtelen egymsutnban a figyel eltt, amelyek
nyomokat hagynak az agyban, s ltrehozzk a
folytonossg illzijt. A figyel visszatkrzdse
ltrehozza az elmben az n rzst, s a szemly
ltszlagosan fggetlen ltezst nyer. Valjban
nincs semmifle szemly, csak a figyel azonostja
nmagt az n-nel s az enym-mel. A tant kzli
a figyelvel: te nem ez vagy, ebben az egszben
semmi nem a tid, kivve az n vagyok pici pontjt,
amely a figyel, s az lma kztt hd szerept
tlti be. Az n ez vagyok, n az vagyok semmi ms,
csak lom, mg a tiszta n vagyok a valsg ltal
rttt blyeg. Oly sok dolgot kiprbltl, s mind
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
naught. Only the sense 'I am' persisted --
unchanged. Stay with the changeless among the
changeful, until you are able to go beyond.
Q: When will it happen?
M: It will happen as soon as you remove the
obstacles.
Q: Which obstacles?
M: Desire for the false and fear of the true. You, as
the person, imagine that the Guru is interested in
you as a person. Not at all. To him you are a
nuisance and a hindrance to be done away with. He
actually aims at your elimination as a factor in
consciousness.
Q: If I am eliminated, what will remain?
M: Nothing will remain, all will remain. The sense of
identity will remain, but no longer identification with a
particular body. Being -- awareness -- love will shine
in full splendour. Liberation is never of the person, it
is always from the person.
Q: And no trace remains of the person?
M: A vague memory remains, like the memory of a
dream, or early childhood. After all, what is there to
remember? A flow of events, mostly accidental and
meaningless. A sequence of desires and fears and
inane blunders. Is there anything worth
remembering? The person is but a shell imprisoning
you. Break the shell.
Q: Whom are you asking to break the shell? Who is
to break the shell?
M: Break the bonds of memory and self-
identification and the shell will break by itself. There
is a centre that imparts reality to whatever it
perceives. All you need is to understand that you are
the source of reality, that you give reality instead of
getting it, that you need no support and no
confirmation. Things are as they are, because you
accept them as they are. Stop accepting them and
they will dissolve. Whatever you think about with
desire or fear appears before you as real. Look at it
without desire or fear and it does lose substance.
Pleasure and pain are momentary. It is simpler and
easier to disregard them than to act on them.
Q: If all things come to an end, why did they appear
at all?
317
semmiv vlt. Csak az n vagyok rzse el nem
ml vltozatlan. Maradj a vltozatlannal a
vltozkony kzepette, mg kpes nem leszel
tllpni rajta.
K: Mikor fog ez megtrtnni?
M: Meg fog trtnni, amint eltvoltod az
akadlyokat.
K: Milyen akadlyokat?
M: A hamis irnyul vgyat, s az igazsg irnti
flelmet. Te, mint a szemly gy kpzeled, hogy a
Gurut a szemlyed rdekli. Egyltaln nem gy van.
Szmra te nyg, s eltvoltand akadly vagy. Az
clja igazbl a te tudatossg tnyezjeknt val
megsemmistsed.
K: Ha megsemmistsre kerlk, mi marad?
M: Semmi sem marad, s minden megmarad. Az
nazonossg rzse megmarad, de tbb nem
azonostod magad egy konkrt testtel. Lt tudat
szeretet fog tndklni teljes ragyogssal. Soha
nem a szemly szmra kvetkezik be a
megszabaduls, hanem mindig a szemlytl.
K: s semmilyen nyoma nem marad a szemlynek?
M: Maradni fog valamilyen lomhoz, vagy korai
gyermekkori emlkhez hasonl, homlyos emlk.
Vgl is, mi az, amire emlkezni kellene?
Esemnyek radata, amelyek legnagyobb rsze
vletlenszer, s rtelmetlen. Vgya, flelmek, s
ostoba baklvsek sorozata. Van valamilyen rtke
az emlkezetnek? A szemly csupn egy tged a
brtnbe zr hj. Trd ssze a hjat.
K: Ki az, akit arra krsz, hogy trje fel a hjat? Ki az,
aki sszetri a hjat?
M: Trd ssze az emlkezet s nazonosuls
bilincseit, s a hj magtl sszetrik. A kzpont ad
valsgot ad akrminek, amit szlel. sszesen azt
kell megrtened, hogy te vagy a valsg forrsa,
hogy te adsz valsgot, ahelyett, hogy kapnd azt,
hogy nincs szksged sem tmogatsra, sem
megerstsre. A dolgok azrt azok, amik, mert te
elfogadod ket. Hagyd abba az elfogadsukat, s
szertefoszlanak. Brmi, amire vggyal vagy
flelemmel gondolsz, az valsgknt jelenik meg
eltted. Nzz r vgy s flelem nlkl, s elveszti
lnyegt. rm s fjdalom pillanatnyi dolgok.
Egyszerbb s knnyebb figyelmen kvl hagyni
ket, mint nekik megfelelen cselekedni.
K: Ha minden dolog vget r egyszer, akkor mirt
kell egyltaln megjelennie?
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
M: Creation is in the very nature of consciousness.
Consciousness causes appearances. Reality is
beyond consciousness.
Q: While we are conscious of appearances, how is it K: Mikzben tudatban vagyunk a ltszatoknak,
that we are not conscious that these are mere hogy-hogy nem vagyunk tudatban annak, hogy
appearances? ezek pusztn ltszatok?
M: The mind covers up reality, without knowing it. To
know the nature of the mind, you need intelligence,
the capacity to look at the mind in silent and
dispassionate awareness.
Q: If I am of the nature of all-pervading
consciousness, how could ignorance and illusion
happen to me?
M: Neither ignorance nor illusion ever happened to
you. Find the self to which you ascribe ignorance
and illusion and your question will be answered. You
talk as if you know the self and see it to be under the
sway of ignorance and illusion. But, in fact, you do
not know the self, nor are you aware of ignorance.
By all means become aware -- this will bring you to
the self and you will realise that there is neither
ignorance nor delusion in it. It is like saying: if there
is sun, how can darkness be? As under a stone
there will be darkness, however strong the sunlight,
so in the shadow of the 'I-am-the-body'
consciousness there must be ignorance and illusion.
Q: But why did the body consciousness come into
being?
M: Don't ask 'why', ask 'how'. It is in the nature of
creative imagination to identify itself with its
creations. You can stop it any moment by switching
off attention. Or through investigation.
Q: Does creation come before investigation?
M: First you create a world, then the 'I am' becomes
a person, who is not happy for various reasons. He
goes out in search of happiness, meets a Guru who
tells him: 'You are not a person, find who you are'.
He does it and goes beyond.
Q: Why did he not do it at the very start?
M: It did not occur to him. He needed somebody to
tell him.
Q: Was that enough?
M: It was enough.
Q: Why does it not work in my case?
318
M: A tudatossg igazi termszete a teremts. A
ltszatokat a tudatossg eredmnyezi. A valsg tl
van a tudatossgon.
M: Az elme anlkl palstolja el a valsgot, hogy
tudnnk rla. Az elme termszetnek a ismerethez
beltsra van szksged, arra a kpessgre, hogy
az elmre csendben, s szenvedly nlkli tudattal
tekints.
K: Ha n a mindent betlt tudatossg
termszetbl vagyok, hogyan eshettem
tudatlansgba s illziba?
M: Se tudatlansgba, se illziba nem estl soha.
Fedezd fel az nt, amelynek a tudatlansgot s az
illzit tulajdontod, s a krdsed megvlaszolsra
kerl. gy beszlsz, mintha ismernd az nt, s
ltnd, hogy azon tudatlansg s illzi uralkodik.
De valjban nem ismered az nt, s a
tudatlansgnak sem vagy tudatban. Mindenekeltt
vlj tudatoss ez el fog tged vezetni az nhez, s
fel fogod ismerni, hogy nincs benne se tudatlansg,
sem illzi. A monds szerint: ha st a nap, hogy
lehetne stt? Ahogy a k alatt stt van, brmily
ersen st a nap, gy az n-vagyok-a-test
tudatossg rnykban is tudatlansgnak s
illzinak kell lennie.
K: De mirt keletkezett a testtudatossg?
M: Ne azt krdezd, hogy mirt, hanem azt,hogyan.
A teremt kpzelet, a termszetnek megfelelen, a
teremtmnyeivel azonostja magt. Ezt brmely
pillanatban lellthatod, a figyelem kikapcsolsval.
Vagy vizsglds rvn.
K: A teremts megelzi vizsgldst?
M: Elbb teremtesz egy vilgot, majd az n vagyok
egy sok oknl fogva boldogtalan szemlly vlik.
Elkezdi keresni a boldogsgot, tallkozik a Guruval,
aki kzli vele: te nem vagy szemly, fedezd fel,
hogy ki vagy. Megteszi, s tllp.
K: Mirt nem tette meg ezt a legelejn?
M: Nem jutott eszbe. Szksge volt valakire, hogy
szljon neki.
K: Ez elegend volt?
M: Elegend.
K: Mirt nem mkdik ez az n esetemben?
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
M: You do not trust me.
Q: Why is my faith weak?
M: Desires and fears have dulled your mind. It
needs some scrubbing.
Q: How can I clear my mind?
M: By watching it relentlessly. Inattention obscures,
attention clarifies.
Q: Why do the Indian teachers advocate inactivity?
M: Most of people's activities are valueless, if not
outright destructive. Dominated by desire and fear,
they can do nothing good. Ceasing to do evil
precedes beginning to do good. Hence the need for
stopping all activities for a time, to investigate one's
urges and their motives, see all that is false in one's
life, purge the mind of all evil and then only restart
work, beginning with one's obvious duties. Of
course, if you have a chance to help somebody, by
all means do it and promptly too, don't keep him
waiting till you are perfect. But do not become a
professional do-gooder.
Q: I do not feel there are too many do-gooders
among disciples. Most of those I met are too
absorbed in their own petty conflicts. They have no
heart for others.
M: Such self-centeredness is temporary. Be patient
with such people. For so many years they gave
attention to everything but themselves. Let them turn
to themselves for a change.
Q: What are the fruits of self-awareness?
M: You grow more intelligent. In awareness you
learn. In self-awareness you learn about yourself. Of
course, you can only learn what you are not. To
know what you are, you must go beyond the mind.
Q: Is not awareness beyond the mind?
M: Awareness is the point at which the mind
reaches out beyond itself into reality. In awareness
you seek not what pleases, but what is true.
Q: I find that awareness brings about a state of inner K: gy gondolom, hogy a figyelem hozza ltre a
silence, a state of psychic void. bels csend, a pszichikai ressg llapott.
319
M: Nem bzol bennem.
K: Mirt gyenge a bizalmam?
M: Vgyak s flelmek tomptottk el az elmd. Meg
kell tiszttani.
K: Hogyan tisztthatom meg az elmmet?
M: gy, hogy llandan figyeled. A figyelmetlensg
elhomlyostja, a figyelem megtiszttja.
K: Az indiai tantk mirt javasolnak ttlensget?
M: A legtbb emberi tevkenysg rtktelen, ha
nem egyenesen rombol. Vgy s flelem ltal
uraltan semmi jt nem tudnak csinlni. Mieltt a j
cselekedetek megkezddhetnnek, abba kell, hogy
maradjanak a gonosz cselekedetek. Ebbl ered
szksglet, hogy egy idre lellts minden
tevkenysget, hogy tanulmnyozd az ember
ksztetseit, s azok motivciit, megfigyelj
mindent, ami hamis az ember letben, megtiszttsd
az elmt minden gonosztl, majd csak azutn kezdd
el jra a munkt, kezdve az ember nyilvnval
ktelessgeivel. Termszetesen, ha lehetsged
van segteni valakin, felttlenl s haladktalanul
tedd meg, ne vrj addig, amg tkletes nem leszel.
De ne vljon belled hivatsos jtev.
K: Nem rzem gy, hogy tl sok jtev lenne a
tantvnyok kztt. A legtbb, akivel tallkoztam
kzlk, tlsgosan sajt kicsinyes konfliktusaiba
volt elmerlve. Nem jut a szvkbl msok szmra.
M: Az ilyen n-kzpontsg tmeneti. Lgy trelmes
az ilyen emberekkel. Mert oly sok ven keresztl
fordtottak figyelmet minden msra, nmaguk
helyett. Hadd forduljanak nmaguk fel a
vltozatossg kedvrt.
K: Mik a gymlcsei az n-figyelemnek?
M: Sokkal intelligensebb vlsz. A figyelem sorn
tanulsz. Az n-figyelem sorn nmagadrl tanulsz.
Termszetesen, csak azt tanulhatod meg, hogy mi
nem vagy. Annak tudshoz, hogy ki vagy, meg kell
haladnod az elmt.
K: A figyelem meghaladja az elmt?
M: A figyelem az a pont, amelynl az elme nmagn
tlnylva elri a valsgot. A figyelemben nem azt
keresed, ami rmet okoz, hanem ami igaz.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
M: It is all right as it goes, but it is not enough. Have
you felt the all-embracing emptiness in which the
universe swims like a cloud in the blue sky?
Q: Sir, let me first come to know well my own inner
space.
M: Destroy the wall that separates, the 'I-am-the-
body' idea and the inner and the outer will become
one.
Q: Am I to die?
M: Physical destruction is meaningless. It is the
clinging to sensate life that binds you. If you could
experience the inner void fully, the explosion into the
totality would be near.
Q: My own spiritual experience has its seasons.
Sometimes I feel glorious, then again I am down. I
am like a little boy -- going up, going down, going up,
going down.
M: All changes in consciousness are due to the 'I-
am-the-body' idea. Divested of this idea the mind
becomes steady. There is pure being, free of
experiencing anything in particular. But to realise it
you must do what your teacher tells you. Mere
listening, even memorizing, is not enough. If you do
not struggle hard to apply every word of it in your
daily life, don't complain that you made no progress.
All real progress is irreversible. Ups and downs
merely show that the teaching has not been taken to
heart and translated into action fully.
Q: The other day you told us that there is no such
thing as karma. Yet we see that every thing has a
cause and the sum total of all the causes may be
called karma.
M: As long as you believe yourself to be a body, you
will ascribe causes to everything. I do not say things
have no causes. Each thing has innumerable
causes. It is as it is, because the world is as it is.
Every cause in its ramifications covers the universe.
When you realise that you are absolutely free to be
what you consent to be, that you are what you
appear to be because of ignorance or indifference,
you are free to revolt and change. You allow yourself
to be what you are not. You are looking for the
causes of being what you are not. It is a futile
search. There are no causes, but your ignorance of
your real being, which is perfect and beyond all
causation. For whatever happens, all the universe is
responsible and you are the source of the universe.
320
M: gy van, gy mkdik, de ez nem elg. rezted
mr a mindent magban foglal ressget,
amelyben az univerzum gy szik, mint felh a kk
gen?
K: Tisztelt Uram, hadd ismerjem meg jl elbb a
sajt bels teremet.
M: Dntsd le a falat, amely elvlaszt, az n-vagyok-
a-test idet, s a bels s a kls eggy fog vlni.
K: Meg kell, hogy haljak?
M: A fizikai megsemmislsnek nincs rtelme. Az
rzki vilgba val kapaszkodsod az, ami
megktz. Ha a bels ressget teljes mrtkben
tapasztalnd, a teljessgbe val robbans mr kzel
lenne.
K: A spiritulis tapasztalsomnak idszakai vannak.
Nha nagyszeren rzem magam, majd ismt levert
vagyok. Olyan vagyok, mint egy kisfi egyszer
fent, egyszer lent, egyszer fent, egyszer lent.
M: A tudatossgban minden vltozs az n-vagyok-
a-test idea jn ltre. Ezen idetl megfosztottan az
elme llhatatoss vlik. A tiszta lt minden
klnleges tapasztalattl mentes. De ennek
felismershez tenned is kell, amit tantd mond
neked. Puszta meghallgatsa, de mg megtanulsa
sem elegend. Ha nem harcolsz kemnyen, hogy
minden szavt rvnyestsd mindennapi leted
sorn, akkor ne panaszkodj, hogy egy helyben
topogsz. Minden valdi halads visszafordthatatlan.
A kedvez s kedveztlen vltozsok pusztn arra
vallanak, hogy a tantsok nem fogantak meg a
szvedben, s nem fordultak teljesen t tettekk.
K: Azt mondtad neknk a minap, hogy a karma, mint
olyan, nem ltezik. Mi mgis gy ltjuk, hogy minden
dolognak oka van, s az okok vgsszegt
karmnak hvhatjuk.
M: Amg nmagadat testnek hiszed, okokat fogsz
tulajdontani mindennek. n nem mondom, hogy a
dolgoknak nincsenek okai. Minden dolognak
megszmllhatatlan oka van. Azrt van gy, ahogy
van, mert a vilg olyan, amilyen. Minden ok
kvetkezmnyei szertegaznak a vilgban.
Amikor felismered, hogy teljes szabadsgodban ll
annak lenni, amihez beleegyezsed adod, hogy
tudatlansg illetve kzmbssg miatt vagy az,
aminek megjelensz, akkor elnyerted a szabadsgot,
hogy felkelj, s vltoztass. Te magad teszed
lehetv, hogy az lgy, ami nem vagy. Egy olyan
ltezsnek az okait keresed, ami nem vagy. Ez
hibaval keress. Nincsenek okok, hanem csak a
tkletes, s minden oksgon tli valdi lted nem
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: I know nothing about being the cause of the
universe.
M: Because you do not investigate. Enquire, search
within and you will know.
Q: How can a speck like me create the vast
universe?
M: When you are infected with the 'I-am-the-body'
virus; a whole universe springs into being. But when
you have had enough of it, you cherish some fanciful
ideas about liberation and pursue lines of action
totally futile. You concentrate, you meditate, you
torture your mind and body, you do all sorts of
unnecessary things, but you miss the essential
which is the elimination of the person.
Q: In the beginning we may have to pray and
meditate for some time before we are ready for self-
enquiry.
M: If you believe so, go on. To me, all delay is a
waste of time. You can skip all the preparation and
go directly for the ultimate search within. Of all the
Yogas it is the simplest and the shortest.
72. What is Pure, Unalloyed, Unattached
is Real
Maharaj: You are back in India. Where have you
been, what have you seen?
Questioner: I come from Switzerland. I stayed there
with a remarkable man who claims to have realised.
He has done many Yogas in his past and had many
experiences that passed away. Now he claims no
special abilities, nor knowledge; the only unusual
thing about him is connected with sensations; he is
unable to separate the seer from the seen. For
instance, when he sees a car rushing at him, he
does not know whether the car is rushing at him, or
he at a car. He seems to be both at the same time,
the seer and the seen. They become one. Whatever
he sees, he sees himself. When I asked him some
Vedantic questions he said: 'I really cannot answer. I
do not know. All I know is this strange identity with
whatever I perceive. You know, I expected anything
but this.'
He is on the whole a humble man; he makes no
disciples and in no way puts himself on a pedestal.
321
ismerse. Mert brmi trtnjk, az egsz univerzum
felels rte, s te vagy az univerzum forrsa.
K: Semmit nem tudok az univerzum oknak a
ltezsrl.
M: Mert nem kutatod. Tanulmnyozd, keresd a
szved mlyn, s meg fogod ismerni.
K: Hogyan tudn egy olyan porszem, mint n,
megteremteni a vgtelen univerzumot?
M: Amikor megfertzdtl az n-vagyok-a-test
vrussal, az egsz univerzum ltbe szkkent. De
amint eleged van belle, elkezdesz meglehetsen
romantikus elkpzelseket tpllni a szabadsgrl,
s egy sor teljesen hibaval tnykedst folytatni.
Koncentrlsz, meditlsz, sanyargatod a testedet s
az elmdet, mindenfle szksgtelen dolgokat
mvelsz, csak ppen lnyeget hibzod el, a szemly
megszntetst.
K: Az elejn lehet imdkozni s meditlni egy ideig,
mg felkszlnk az nkutatsra.
M: Ha ebben hiszel, csak rajta. Szerintem minden
halogats idpocskols. tugorhatsz minden
elkszletet, s kzvetlenl belevghatsz a vgs,
befel irnyul keressbe. Az sszes Yogk kztt
ez a legegyszerbb, s legrvidebb.
72. Ami szntiszta, elegytetlen,
fggetlen, az vals
Maharaj: Visszajttl ht Indiba. Merre jrtl, mit
lttl?
Krdez: Svjcbl jvk. Egy rendkvli embernl
jrtam, aki lltsa szerint megvalsult. Rgebben
sokat Yogzott, s sok meglt tapasztalata elhagyta.
lltsa szerint most nincs se specilis kpessge,
se tudsa; az egyetlen szokatlan dolog az
rzkelssel kapcsolatosan jelentkezik nla, nem
kpes elklnteni a ltt s a ltottat. Pldul,
amikor egy felje szguld autt lt, nem tudja, hogy
az aut fel szguld, vagy az autban van.
Egyidejleg mindkettnek, a ltnak s a ltottnak is
ltja magt. Eggy vltak. Brmit lt, nmagt ltja.
Amikor feltettem neki egy vdkkal kapcsolatos
krdst, azt vlaszolta: Valban nem tudom a
vlaszt. Nem tudom. Mindssze ezt a minden
szlelsemmel egytt jr klns nazonossgot
ismerem. Tudod, mindent vrtam, csak ezt nem.
Egszben vve egy alzatos ember; nem fogad
tantvnyokat, s semmilyen mdon magasztalja
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
He is willing to talk about his strange condition, but magt. Hajland beszlni az klns llapotrl,
that is all. de ez minden.

M: Now he knows what he knows. All else is over. At M: Nos, tudja, amit tud. Minden ms elmlik.
least he still talks. Soon he may cease talking. Legalbb mg beszl. Lehet, hogy hamarosan
abbahagyja a beszdet.

Q: What will he do then? K: Mit fog csinlni azutn?

M: Immobility and silence are not inactive. The
flower fills the space with perfume, the candle -- with
light. They do nothing yet they change everything by
their mere presence. You can photograph the
candle, but not its light. You can know the man, his
name and appearance, but not his influence. His
very presence is action.
M: A mozdulatlansg s csend nem ttlenek. A virg
betlti a teret illattal, a gyertya fnnyel. Semmit
sem csinlnak, mgis minden megvltoztatnak,
puszta jelenltk ltal. Lefnykpezheted a gyertyt,
de fnyt nem. Ismerheted az embert, nevt s
megjelenst, de hatst nem. Az valdi jelenlte
a cselekvs.

Q: Is it not natural to be active? K: Nem termszetes dolog tevkenynek lenni?

M: Everybody wants to be active, but where do his
actions originate? There is no central point each
action begets another, meaninglessly and painfully,
in endless succession. The alternation of work and
pause is not there. First find the immutable centre
where all movement takes birth. Just like a wheel
turns round an axle, so must you be always at the
axle in the centre and not whirling at the periphery.
M: Mindenki tevkeny akar lenni, de tetteik honnan
szrmaznak? Kzpont nlkl minden tett msikat
szl, rtelmetlenl s fjdalmasan, vgtelen
egymsutnban. A munka nem vltakozik a
sznettel. Elbb fedezd fel az lland kzpontot,
ahol minden mozgs szletik. Ahogy a tengely krl
forg kerk esetben, gy kell mindig a tengelynl
lenned, a kzpontban, s nem a perifrin keringeni.

Q: How do I go about it in practice? K: Hogyan fogjak hozz ehhez a gyakorlatban?

M: Whenever a thought or emotion of desire or fear M: Valahnyszor vgy vagy flelem gondolata vagy
comes to your mind, just turn away from it. emcija jelentkezik az elmdben, csupn fordulj el
tle.

Q: By suppressing my thoughts and feelings I shall K: Gondolataim s rzseim elnyomsval reakcit

provoke a reaction. fogok kivltani.

M: I am not talking of suppression. Just refuse M: Nem elnyomsrl beszlek. Csupn a figyelem
attention. megtagadsrl.

Q: Must I not use effort to arrest the movements of K: Ne tegyek erfesztst, hogy meglltsam az
the mind? elme mozgsait?

M: It has nothing to do with effort. Just turn away,
look between the thoughts, rather than at the
thoughts. When you happen to walk in a crowd, you
do not fight every man you meet -- you just find your
way between.
M: Nincs kze erfesztshez. Fordulj el csupn,
inkbb a gondolatok kz nzz, mint a gondolatokra.
Amikor gy addik, hogy egy tmegben stlsz,
nem harcolsz minden emberrel, akivel tallkozol
csupn megkeresed az utadat kzttk.

Q: If I use my will to control the mind, it only K: Ha az akaratommal kontrolllom az elmt, akkor
strengthens the ego. csak erstem az egt.

M: Of course. When you fight, you invite a fight. But M: Termszetesen. Amikor harcolsz, harcra hvsz.
when you do not resist, you meet with no resistance. De ha nem llsz ellen, nem tallsz ellenllsra. Ha
When you refuse to play the game, you are out of it. visszautastod a jtkot, kimaradsz belle.

Q: How long will it take me to get free of the mind? K: Meddig fog tartani, hogy megszabaduljak az
elmtl?

M: It may take a thousand years, but really no time M: vezredekig is eltarthat, de valjban semmifle

322
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
is required. All you need is to be in dead earnest.
Here the will is the deed. If you are sincere, you
have it. After all, it is a matter of attitude. Nothing
stops you from being a gnani here and now, except
fear. You are afraid of being impersonal, of
impersonal being. It is all quite simple. Turn away
from your desires and fears and from the thoughts
they create and you are at once in your natural
state.
Q: No question of reconditioning, changing, or
eliminating the mind?
M: Absolutely none. Leave your mind alone, that is
all. Don't go along with it. After all, there is no such
thing as mind apart from thoughts which come and
go obeying their own laws, not yours. They dominate
you only because you are interested in them. It is
exactly as Christ said 'Resist not evil'. By resisting
evil you merely strengthen it.
Q: Yes, I see now. All I have to do is to deny
existence to evil. Then it fades away. But does it not
boil down to some kind of auto-suggestion?
M: The auto-suggestion is in full swing now, when
you think yourself to be a person, caught between
good and evil. What I am asking you to do is to put
an end to it, to wake up and see things as they are.
About your stay in Switzerland with that strange
friend of yours: what did you gain in his company?
Q: Nothing absolutely. His experience did not affect
me at all. One thing I have understood: there is
nothing to search for. Wherever I may go, nothing
waits for me at the end of the journey. Discovery is
not the result of transportation.
M: Yes, you are quite apart from anything that can
be gained or lost.
Q: Do you call it vairagya, relinquishment,
renunciation?
M: There is nothing to renounce. Enough if you stop
acquiring. To give you must have, and to have you
must take. Better don't take. It is simpler than to
practice renunciation, which leads to a dangerous
form of 'spiritual' pride.
All this weighing, selecting, choosing, exchanging --
it is all shopping in some 'spiritual' market. What is
your business there? What deal are you out to
strike? When you are not out for business, what is
the use of this endless anxiety of choice?
Restlessness takes you nowhere. Something
323
idt nem ignyel. Mindssze hallosan komolynak
kell lenned. Itt az akarat a cselekvs. Ha szinte
vagy, rendelkezel vele. Vgl is, ez hozzlls
krdse. Semmi nem tarthat vissza, hogy itt s most
gnani lgy, kivve a flelmet. Flsz a szemlytelen
ltezstl, a szemlytelenn vlstl. Ez teljesen
egyszer. Fordulj el vgyaidtl s flelmeidtl, s a
gondolatoktl, amiket azok teremtenek, s
egyszerre termszetes llapotodba kerlsz.
K: Nem az elme megjtsa, megvltoztatsa, vagy
kikszblse a krds?
M: Abszolte nem. Hagyd elmd magra, ez
minden. Ne menj vele. Vgl is, nem ltezik olyan
dolog, mint elme, eltekintve a gondolatoktl,
amelyek nem a te, hanem sajt trvnyeiknek
engedelmeskedve jnnek s mennek. Csak azrt
uralnak tged, mert rdekeldsz irntuk. Pontosan,
ahogy Krisztus mondta,ne llj ellene a gonosznak.
Ha ellene llsz a gonosznak, csupn ersted azt.
K: Igen, most mr rtem. Mindssze azt kell
tennem, hogy megtagadom a ltet a gonosztl.
Ekkor az kereket old. De ez nem sszefoglalsa egy
bizonyos fajta nszuggesztinak?
M: Az nszuggeszti ppen most dolgozik
gzervel, amikor szemlynek gondolod magad,
megragadva j s gonosz kztt. Arra krlek, vess
vget ennek, bredj fel, s lsd a dolgokat, ahogy
azok vannak.
Svjci tartzkodsod sorn szerzett klns
bartodrl: mit nyertl a trsasgbl?
K: Abszolte semmit. Az tapasztalatai egyltaln
nem hatottak rm. Egy dolgot megrtettem: nincs ott
semmi keresnivalm. Brhov mehetek, semmi nem
vr rm az t vgn. A felfedezs nem az utazs
eredmnye.
M: Igen, kivve, amit nyerhetsz, vagy veszthetsz.
K: Ezt gy nevezed, hogy vairagya, felads,
lemonds?
M: Semmirl nem kell lemondani. Elg, ha lelltod a
szerzst. Adshoz birtokolnod kell, s birtoklshoz
cipekedned. Jobb nem cipelni. Ez egyszerbb, mint
lemondst gyakorolni, amely a spiritulis gg
veszlyes formjhoz vezet.
Mindez mrlegels, vlogats, kivlaszts, csere
ez mind spiritulis piaci bevsrls. Mi dolgod ott?
Mirt alkudozol? Ha nem akarsz zletelni, mi haszna
e vg nlkli aggodalmas vlogatsnak? Sehov
nem vezet a nyugtalansg. Valami megakadlyozza,
hogy lsd, semmire nincs szksged. Fedezd fel, s
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
prevents you from seeing that there is nothing you
need. Find it out and see its falseness. It is like
having swallowed some poison and suffering from
unquenchable craving for water. Instead of drinking
beyond all measure, why not eliminate the poison
and be free of this burning thirst?
Q: I shall have to eliminate the ego.
M: The sense 'I am a person in time and space' is
the poison. In a way, time itself is the poison. In time
all things come to an end and new are born, to be
devoured in their turn. Do not identify yourself with
time, do not ask anxiously: 'what next, what next?'
Step out of time and see it devour the world. Say:
'Well, it is in the nature of time to put an end to
everything. Let it be. It does not concern me. I am
not combustible, nor do I need to collect fuel'.
Q: Can the witness be without the things to witness? K: Ltezhet-e a tan a tanstand dolgok nlkl?
M: There is always something to witness. If not a
thing, then its absence. Witnessing is natural and no
problem. The problem is excessive interest, leading
to self-identification. Whatever you are engrossed in
you take to be real.
Q: Is the 'I am' real or unreal? Is the 'I am' the
witness? Is the witness real or unreal?
M: What is pure, unalloyed, unattached, is real.
What is tainted, mixed up, dependent and transient
is unreal. Do not be misled by words -- one word
may convey several and even contradictory
meanings. The 'I am that pursues the pleasant and
shuns the unpleasant is false; the 'I am' that sees
pleasure and pain as inseparable sees rightly. The
witness that is enmeshed in what he perceives is the
person; the witness who stands aloof, unmoved and
untouched, is the watch-tower of the real, the point
at which awareness, inherent in the unmanifested,
contacts the manifested. There can be no universe
without the witness, there can be no witness without
the universe.
Q: Time consumes the world. Who is the witness of
time?
M: He who is beyond time -- the Un-nameable. A
glowing ember, moved round and round quickly
enough, appears as a glowing circle. When the
movement ceases, the ember remains. Similarly, the
'I am' in movement creates the world. The 'I am' at
peace becomes the Absolute. You are like a man
with an electric torch walking through a gallery. You
can see only what is within the beam. The rest is in
darkness.
Q: If I project the world, I should be able to change
324
lsd annak hamissgt. Ez olyan, mint mrget
nyelni, s vz irnti csillapthatatlan vgytl
szenvedni. A mrtktelen ivs helyett mirt nem
tvoltod el a mrget, s vlsz szabadd ettl az g
szomjsgtl?
K: Fel kell szmolnom az egt.
M: A szemly vagyok idben s trben rzs a
mreg. Valamikppen maga az id a mreg. Idvel
minden dolog vget r, s jak szletnek, hogy
elnyeldjenek krforgsukban. Ne azonosulj az
idvel, ne krdezskdj nyugtalanul: mi a
kvetkez, mi a kvetkez? Lpj ki az idbl, s
lsd, amint az felfalja a vilgot. Mondd: Nos, az id
olyan termszet, hogy vget vet mindennek.
Legyen. Ez engem nem rint. Nem vagyok ghet,
s tzelt gyjtenem sem szksges.
M: Mindig van valami, aminek tanja lehetsz. Ha
nem egy dolog, akkor annak hinya. Tannak lenni
termszetes, s nem problma. A problma az n-
azonostshoz vezet tlzott rdeklds. Brmi, ami
lefoglalja a figyelmedet, az valsgg vlik benned.
K: Valdi az n vagyok, vagy valtlan? Az n
vagyok a tan? Valdi a tan, vagy valtlan?
M: Ami szntiszta, vegytetlen, fggetlen, az valdi.
Ami szennyezett, kevert, fgg s ml, az valtlan.
Ne hagyd, hogy a szavak flrevezessenek egy sz
klnbz, radsul ellentmond jelentseket is
hordozhat. Az lvezetet hajszol, s a kellemetlent
kerl n vagyok az hamis; az lvezetet s a
fjdalmat elvlaszthatatlannak lt n vagyok
helyesen lt. Az szlelete csapdjba es tan a
szemly; az a tan, aki kzmbs, mozdulatlan s
rintetlen marad, a valsg megfigyeltornya, a
megnyilvnulatlanban lakoz tudat s a
megnyilvnult rintkezsi pontja. Nem ltezhet
univerzum a tan nlkl, nem ltezhet tan az
univerzum nlkl.
K: Az id elemszti a vilgot. Ki a tanja az idnek?
M: , aki id felett ll a Megnevezhetetlen. Az izz
parzs, ha elg gyorsan krbe-krbe mozgatjk, egy
izz krnek tnik. Amikor a mozgs megsznik, a
zsartnok marad. Hasonlkppen hozza ltre az n
vagyok mozgsa a vilgot. A nyugalomban lv n
vagyok az Abszoltt vlik. Te olyan vagy, mint az
az ember, aki egy zseblmpval megy t a galrin.
Csak azt ltod, ami a fnykvn bell esik. A tbbi
sttben van.
K: Ha n vettem ki a vilgot, akkor kpes kell, hogy
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
it.
M: Of course, you can. But you must cease
identifying yourself with it and go beyond. Then you
have the power to destroy and re-create.
Q: All I want is to be free.
M: You must know two things: What are you to be
free from and what keeps you bound.
Q: Why do you want to annihilate the universe?
M: I am not concerned with the universe. Let it be or
not be. It is enough if I know myself.
Q: If you are beyond the world, then you are of no
use to the world.
M: Pity the self that is, not the world that is not.
Engrossed in a dream you have forgotten your true
self.
Q: Without the world there is no place for love.
M: Quite so. All these attributes; being,
consciousness, love and beauty are reflections of
the real in the world. No real -- no reflection.
Q: The world is full of desirable things and people.
How can I imagine it non-existent?
M: Leave the desirable to those who desire. Change
the current of your desire from taking to giving. The
passion for giving, for sharing, will naturally wash the
idea of an external world out of your mind, and of
giving as well. Only the pure radiance of love will
remain, beyond giving and receiving.
Q: In love there must be duality, the lover and the
beloved.
M: In love there is not the one even, how can there
be two? Love is the refusal to separate, to make
distinctions. Before you can think of unity, you must
first create duality. When you truly love, you do not
say: 'I love you'; where there is mentation, there is
duality.
Q: What is it that brings me again and again to
India? It cannot be only the comparative cheapness
of life here? Nor the colourfulness and variety of
impressions. There must be some more important
factor.
325
legyek meg is vltoztatni azt.
M: Termszetesen kpes vagy r. De abba kell
hagynod a vele val azonosulst, s meg kell
haladnod azt. Akkor hatalmad van lerombolni, s
jrateremteni.
K: Csupn szabad akarok lenni.
M: Kt dolgot kell tudnod: mitl akarsz
megszabadulni, s mi tart tged megktzve.
K: Mirt akarod megsemmisteni az univerzumot?
M: Engem nem rdekel az univerzum. Nekem
mindegy, hogy ltezik, vagy nem ltezik. Elegend,
ha ismerem nmagam.
K: Ha meghaladtad a vilgot, akkor szmodra nincs
haszna a vilgnak.
M: Az elmt sznd, ami van, ne a vilgot, ami nincs.
Annyira lekt az lom, hogy elfelejtetted valdi
nedet.
K: A vilg nlkl nem lenne hely a szeretetnek.
M: gy van. Lt, tudatossg, szeretet s szpsg
mindezen attribtumok a valsg vilgban val
tkrzdsei. Ha nincs valsg nincs tkrzds.
K: A vilg tele van kvnatos dolgokkal s
emberekkel. Hogyan kpzelhetnm ket nem
ltezknek?
M: Hagyd a kvnatost azokra, akik vgyakoznak.
Vltoztasd vgyakozsod irnyt kapsrl adsra.
Az ads, megoszts irnti szenvedly termszetes
mdon fogja kimosni a kls vilg idejt az
elmdbl, s az adst ugyangy. Csak a szeretet
tiszta ragyogsa marad meg, adst s kapst
meghaladva.
K: A szeretetben kettssg kell, hogy legyen, a
szeret s a szeretett.
M: Ha a szeretetben mg az egy sincs benne,
hogyan lehetne ott a kett? A szeretet elutastja az
elklnlst, a klnbsge ttelt. Mieltt az
egysgre gondolhatnl, ltre kell hoznod elszr a
kettssget. Amikor valban szeretsz, nem mondod,
hogy szeretlek; ahol lelki tevkenysg van, ott
kettssg van.
K: Mi hoz engem vissza Indiba jra meg jra? Nem
lehetsges, hogy csupn az itteni viszonylag
olcsbb let? A sznpomps s vltozatos
impresszik sem. Kell, hogy legyen valamilyen
fontosabb tnyez.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
M: There is also the spiritual aspect. The division M: Van spiritulis szempont is. A kls s a bels
between the outer and the inner is less in India. It is Indiban kevsb vlik szt. Itt knnyebben kifejezni
easier here to express the inner in the outer. a belst a klsben. Knnyebb az egysgesls. A
Integration is easier. Society is not so oppressive. trsadalom nem igz le annyira.

Q: Yes, in the West it is all tamas and rajas. In India K: Igen, Nyugaton minden tamas s rajas. Indiban
there is more of sattva, of harmony and balance. tbb van sattvbl, harmnibl s egyenslybl.

M: Can't you go beyond the gunas? Why choose the M: Nem tudsz tllpni a gunkon? Mirt vlasztod a
sattva? Be what you are, wherever you are and sattvt? Lgy, ami vagy, akrhol vagy, s ne aggdj
worry not about gunas. gunk miatt.

Q: I have not the strength. K: Nincs meg hozz az erm.

M: It merely shows that you have gained little in M: Ez csupn azt mutatja, hogy kevs hasznodra
India. What you truly have you cannot lose. Were volt India. Ami igazn a tid, azt nem vesztheted el.
you well-grounded in your self, change of place Ha ned szilrd alapokon nyugodna, a
would not affect it. helyvltoztats nem hatna r.

Q: In India spiritual life is easy. It is not so in the K: Indiban knnyen lehet spiritulis letet lni.
West. One has to conform to environment to a much Nyugaton ez mskpp van. Sokkal nagyobb
greater extent. mrtkben kell alkalmazkodni a krnyezethez.

M: Why don't you create your own environment? M: Mirt nem teremtesz sajt krnyezetet? A
The world has only as much power over you as you vilgnak csak annyi hatalma van feletted, amennyit
give it. Rebel. Go beyond duality, make no adsz neki. Lpj tl a kettssgen, ne tgy
difference between east and west. klnbsget kelet s nyugat kztt.

Q: What can one do when one finds oneself in a K: Mit tehet az ember, mikor nagyon fldhzragadt
very unspiritual environment? krnyezetben tallja magt?

M: Do nothing. Be yourself. Stay out. Look beyond. M: Ne tgy semmit. Lgy nmagad. Maradj kvl.
Nzz mg.

Q: There may be clashes at home. Parents rarely K: Elfordulhatnak otthoni nzeteltrsek. A szlk
understand. ritkn megrtk.

M: When you know your true being, you have no
problems. You may please your parents or not,
marry or not, make a lot of money or not; it is all the
same to you. Just act according to circumstances,
yet in close touch with the facts, with the reality in
every situation.
M: Amikor ismered valdi ltedet, nincsenek
problmid. rmet szerzel szleidnek, vagy sem,
meghzasodsz, vagy sem, sok pnzt keresel, vagy
sem, szmodra mindez egyre megy. Cselekedj csak
a krlmnyektl fggen, st, a tnyekhez, a
mindenkori szitucihoz szorosan kapcsoldva.

Q: Is it not a very high state? K: Nem tl emelkedett llapot ez?

M: Oh no, it is the normal state. You call it high
because you are afraid of it. First be free from fear.
See that there is nothing to be afraid of.
Fearlessness is the door to the Supreme.
M: , nem, ez a normlis llapot. Azrt nevezed
emelkedettnek, mert flsz tle. Elszr szabadulj
meg a flelemtl. Vedd szre, hogy nincs mitl flni.
A flelemnlklisg az ajt, amely a Legfelsbbhz
vezet.

Q: No amount of effort can make me fearless. K: Semekkora erfeszts rvn nem mlhat el a
flelmem.

M: Fearlessness comes by itself, when you see that
there is nothing to be afraid of. When you walk in a
crowded street, you just bypass people. Some you
see, some you just glance at, but you do not stop. It
is the stopping that creates the bottleneck. Keep
M: A flelem nlklisg nmagtl jn, amikor ltod,
hogy nincs mitl flni. Amikor egy zsfolt utcn
stlsz, akkor csak gy kikerld az embereket.
Egyeseket megnzel, msokra csak egy pillantst
vetsz, de nem llsz meg. A meglls az, ami

326
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
moving. Disregard names and shapes, don't be
attached to them; your attachment is your bondage.
Q: What should I do when a man slaps me on my
face?
M: You will react according to your character, inborn M: Annak megfelelen reaglsz, hogy milyen a
or acquired. karaktered, legyen az veled szletett, vagy szerzett.
Q: Is it inevitable? Am I, is the world, condemned to
remain as we are?
M: A jeweller who wants to refashion an ornament,
first melts it down to shapeless gold. Similarly, one
must return to one's original state before a new
name and form can emerge. Death is essential for
renewal.
Q: You are always stressing the need of going
beyond, of aloofness, of solitude. You hardly ever
use the words 'right' and 'wrong'. Why is it so?
M: It is right to be oneself, it is wrong not to be. All
else is conditional. You are eager to separate right
from wrong, because you need some basis for
action. You are always after doing something or
other. But, personally motivated action, based on
some scale of values, aiming at some result is worse
than inaction, for its fruits are always bitter.
Q: Are awareness and love one and the same?
M: Of course. Awareness is dynamic, love is being.
Awareness is love in action. By itself the mind can
actualise any number of possibilities, but unless they
are prompted by love, they are valueless. Love
precedes creation. Without it there is only chaos.
Q: Where is the action in awareness?
M: You are so incurably operational. Unless there is
movement, restlessness, turmoil, you do not call it
action. Chaos is movement for movement's sake.
True action does not displace; it transforms. A
change of place is mere transportation; a change of
heart is action. Just remember, nothing perceivable
is real. Activity is not action. Action is hidden,
unknown, unknowable. You can only know the fruit.
Q: Is not God the all-doer?
M: Why do you bring in an outer doer? The world
recreates itself out of itself. It is an endless process,
327
tszkletet csinl. Maradj mozgsban. Hagyd
figyelmen kvl a neveket s formkat, ne ktdj
hozzjuk, a ktdsed az, ami gzsba kt.
K: Mit kell tennem, mikor arcon tnek?
K: Szksgszer ez? n, a vilg, arra tltetnk,
hogy azok maradjunk, amik vagyunk?
M: Amikor az kszersz t akar alaktani egy
aranykszert, elszr beolvasztja, miltal az
formtlan aranny vlik. Hasonlkppen van az
emberrel is, vissza kell trnie eredeti llapotba,
mieltt j nven s alakban jelenhetne meg. A hall
nlklzhetetlen a megjulshoz.
K: Mindig a meghalads, kzmbssg,
magnyossg szksgessgt hangslyozod.
Szinte sohasem hasznlod a j s rossz szavakat.
Mirt?
M: J az, ha nmagad vagy, rossz, ha nem vagy.
Minden ms feltteles. Azrt gsz a vgytl, hogy
elvlaszd a jt a rossztl, mert bizonyos
kiindulpontra van szksged a cselekvshez.
Mindig valamilyen tennivalt keresel. De az
rtkrend alap, szemlyesen motivlt cselekvs,
amely meghatrozott eredmnyt vesz clba,
rosszabb, mint a nem cselekvs, mert gymlcsei
mindig keserek.
K: Tudat s szeretet egy s ugyanazok?
M: Termszetesen. A tudat mozgat er, a szeretet
ltezs. A tudat cselekv szeretet. Az elme nmaga
is kpes brmifle lehetsget megvalstani, de ha
nem a szeretet ksztette r, akkor rtktelenek. A
szeretet a teremts eltt jr. Nlkle kosz van
csupn.
K: Hol a cselekvs a tudatban?
M: Megrgztt mdon ragaszkodsz a mkdshez.
Ha nincs mozgs, nyugtalansg, kavarods, akkor
azt nem nevezed cselekvsnek. A kosz mozgs a
mozgs kedvrt. A valdi cselekvs nem mozdt,
talakt. A hely megvltoztatsa szllts csupn; a
szv vltozsa a cselekvs. Csak arra gondolj, hogy
semmilyen szlelhet nem vals. A tevkenysg
nem cselekvs. A cselekvs rejtett, ismeretlen,
megismerhetetlen. Csak a gymlcst ismerheted.
K: Nem Isten az, aki mindent cselekszik?
M: Mirt vezetsz be egy kls cselekvt? A vilg
nmagbl teremti jra nmagt. Ez egy vgtelen
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
the transitory begetting the transitory. It is your ego
that makes you think that there must be a doer. You
create a God to your own Image, however dismal
the image. Through the film of your mind you project
a world and also a God to give it cause and purpose.
It is all imagination -- step out of it.
Q: How difficult it is to see the world as purely
mental. The tangible reality of it seems so very
convincing.
M: This is the mystery of imagination, that it seems
to be so real. You may be celibate or married, a
monk or a family man; that is not the point. Are you
a slave of your imagination, or are you not?
Whatever decision you take, whatever work you do,
it will be invariably based on imagination, on
assumptions parading as facts.
Q: Here I am sitting in front of you. What part of it is
imagination?
M: The whole of it. Even space and time are
imagined.
Q: Does it mean that I don't exist?
M: I too do not exist. All existence is imaginary.
Q: Is being too imaginary?
M: Pure being, filling all and beyond all, is not
existence which is limited. All limitation is imaginary,
only the unlimited is real.
Q: When you look at me, what do you see?
M: I see you imagining yourself to be.
Q: There are many like me. Yet each is different.
M: The totality of all projections is what is called
maha-maya, the Great Illusion.
Q: But when you look at yourself, what do you see?
M: It depends how I look. When I look through the
mind, I see numberless people. When I look beyond
the mind, I see the witness. Beyond the witness
there is the infinite intensity of emptiness and
silence.
Q: How to deal with people?
M: Why make plans and what for? Such questions
show anxiety. Relationship is a living thing. Be at
peace with your inner self and you will be at peace
with everybody.
328
folyamat, amely sorn a mland ltrehozza a
mlandt. Az egd gondoltatja veled azt, hogy
lennie kell cselekvnek. Alkotsz egy Istent a sajt
Kpedre, a kp azonban lehangol. Elmd filmjn
keresztl kivettesz egy vilgot, s egy Istent is,
hogy okot s clt adjon neki. Mindez kpzelds
lpj ki belle.
K: Milyen nehz a vilgot tisztn mentlisnak ltni.
Tapinthat valsga annyira meggyznek ltszik.
M: Ez a kpzeletmisztriuma, hogy olyan valdinak
ltszik. Lehetsz akr egyedlll, hzas, szerzetes,
vagy csaldos ember; nem ez a lnyeg. Szolgja
vagy kpzeletednek, vagy sem? Brmilyen dntst
hozol, brmilyen munkt vgzel, az mindig
kpzeleten, tnyekknt pardz feltevseken fog
alapulni.
K: Itt lk, eltted. Ennek melyik rsze kpzelet?
M: Az egsz. Mg a tr s id is elkpzelt dolgok.
K: Ez azt jelenti, hogy n nem ltezem?
M: n sem ltezem. Minden ltezs elkpzelt.
K: A ltezs is elkpzelt?
M: A tiszta lt, amely mindent betlt, s mindenek
felett ll, nem olyan ltezs, amely korltolt. Minden
korltozs elkpzelt, csak a korltlan valdi.
K: Ha rm nzel, mit ltsz?
M: Azt ltom, hogy lteznek kpzeled magad.
K: Sokan olyanok, mint n. Mgis mind klnbzk.
M: Az sszes kivetts sszessge, amit gy hvunk,
maha-maya, a Nagy Illzi.
K: De amikor nmagadra nzel, mit ltsz?
M: Attl fgg, hogyan nzek. Amikor az elmn
keresztl nzek, megszmllhatatlan embert ltok.
Amikor az elmn tlra nzek, a tant ltom. A tann
tl a vgtelen intenzits ressg, s csend van.
K: Hogyan kell bnni az emberekkel?
M: Mirt ksztesz terveket, s mi clbl? Az ilyen
krdsek nyugtalansgot jeleznek. A kapcsolat l
dolog. Lgy bkben bels neddel, s bkben
leszel mindenkivel.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Realise that you are not the master of what
happens, you cannot control the future except in
purely technical matters. Human relationship cannot
be planned, it is too rich and varied. Just be
understanding and compassionate, free of all self
seeking.
Q: Surely, I am not the master of what happens. Its
slave rather.
M: Be neither master, nor slave. Stand aloof.
Q: Does it imply avoidance of action?
M: You cannot avoid action. It happens, like
everything else.
Q: My actions, surely, I can control.
M: Try. You will soon see that you do what you
must.
Q: I can act according to my will.
M: You know your will only after you have acted.
Q: I remember my desires, the choices made, the
decisions taken and act accordingly.
M: Then your memory decides, not you.
Q: Where do I come in?
M: You make it possible by giving it attention.
Q: Is there no such thing as free will? Am I not free
to desire?
M: Oh no, you are compelled to desire. In Hinduism M: , nem, te knyszerlsz a vgyakozsra. A
the very idea of free will is non-existent, so there is hinduizmusban valjban nem ltezik a szabad
no word for it. Will is commitment, fixation, bondage. akarat fogalma, gy sz sincs r.
Q: I am free to choose my limitations.
M: You must be free first. To be free in the world you
must be free of the world. Otherwise your past
decides for you and your future. Between what had
happened and what must happen you are caught.
Call it destiny or karma, but never -- freedom. First
return to your true being and then act from the heart
of love.
Q: Within the manifested what is the stamp of the
unmanifested?
329
bredj r, hogy nem te vagy az ura a trtnseknek,
nem tudod kontrolllni a jvt, a tisztn technikai
problmk kivtelvel. Az emberi kapcsolat nem
tervezhet, mivel tl gazdag s vltozatos. Csak
legyl megrt s egyttrz, minden nrdektl
mentes.
K: Valban, nem vagyok ura annak, ami trtnik.
Inkbb a szolgja.
M: Ne legyl se r, se szolga. Maradj kzmbs.
K: Ez a cselekvs elkerlst jelenti?
M: Nem tudod elkerlni cselekvst. Megtrtnik,
mint minden ms.
K: n a cselekedeteimet minden ktsgen fell
kontrolllni tudom.
M: Prblod. Nemsokra ltni fogod, hogy azt
csinlod, amit csinlnod kell.
K: Az akaratomnak megfelelen tudok cselekedni.
M: Az akaratodat csak az utn ismered, miutn
cselekedtl.
K: Emlkszem a vgyaimra, a vlasztsaimra, a
velk sszhangban meghozott dntsekre, s
cselekedetekre.
M: Akkor az emlkezeted dnt, s nem te.
K: Mi az n szerepem?
M: Te teremted meg a lehetsgt, azzal, hogy
figyelmet adsz neki.
K: Olyan, mint szabad akarat nem ltezik? Nem
szabadok a vgyaim?
K: Szabad vagyok a korltaim megvlasztsban.
M: Elbb szabadnak kell lenned. Ahhoz, hogy
szabad lgy a vilgban, elszr a vilgtl kell
szabadnak lenned. Egybknt mltad hoz dntst
szmodra, s jvd szmra. Ami megtrtnt, s
aminek trtnnie kell kztt vagy elakadva. Nevezd
ezt sorsnak, vagy karmnak, de sose
szabadsgnak. Elbb trj vissza igaz ltedhez, majd
cselekedj a szeretet lelkillapotbl.
K: A megnyilvnulton bell mi a jele
megnyilvnulatlannak?
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
M: There is none. The moment you begin to look for
the stamp of the unmanifested, the manifested
dissolves. If you try to understand the unmanifested
with the mind, you at once go beyond the mind, like
when you stir the fire with a wooden stick, you burn
the stick. Use the mind to investigate the
manifested. Be like the chick that pecks at the shell.
Speculating about life outside the shell would have
been of little use to it, but pecking at the shell breaks
the shell from within and liberates the chick.
Similarly, break the mind from within by investigation
and exposure of its contradictions and absurdities.
Q: The longing to break the shell, where does it
come from?
M: From the unmanifested.
73. Death of the Mind is Birth of Wisdom 73. Az elme halla a blcsessg
szletse
Questioner: Before one can realise one's true
nature need not one be a person? Does not the ego
have its value?
Maharaj: The person is of little use. It is deeply
involved in its own affairs and is completely ignorant
of its true being. Unless the witnessing
consciousness begins to play on the person and it
becomes the object of observation rather than the
subject, realisation is not feasible. It is the witness
that makes realisation desirable and attainable.
Q: There comes a point in a person's life when it
becomes the witness.
M: Oh, no. The person by itself will not become the
witness. It is like expecting a cold candle to start
burning in the course of time. The person can stay in
the darkness of ignorance forever, unless the flame
of awareness touches it.
Q: Who lights the candle?
M: The Guru. His words, his presence. In India it is
very often the mantra. Once the candle is lighted,
the flame will consume the candle.
Q: Why is the mantra so effective?
M: Constant repetition of the mantra is something
the person does not do for one's own sake. The
beneficiary is not the person. Just like the candle
which does not increase by burning.
330
M: Nincs ilyen. Abban a pillanatban, hogy keresni
kezded a megnyilvnulatlan jelt, a megnyilvnult
szertefoszlik. Ha megprblod elmvel megrteni a
megnyilvnulatlant, azonnal tllpsz az elmn, mint
amikor egy fa plcikval piszklva a tzet, elgeted
a plct. Hasznld az elmt a megnyilvnult
tanulmnyozsra. Olyan lgy, mint a tojshjat a
csrvel bkds kiscsibe. Az letrl val
spekulci a hjon kvl nem sok haszonnal jrna,
de a hjon belli bkdss kitri a tojshjat, s
szabadd teszi a csibt. Hasonlkppen trd ssze
bellrl az elmt ellentmondsainak s
kptelensgeinek kutatsval s feltrsval.
K: A tojshj sszetrsnek a vgya honnan jn?
M: A megnyilvnulatlanbl.
Krdez: Mieltt felismeri valaki igaz termszett,
nem szksges, hogy szemly legyen? Az egnak
nincs rtke?
Maharaj: A szemlynek nem sok haszna van.
Mlyen sajt gyeibe van bonyoldva, s egyltaln
nincs tudatban valdi ltnek. Hacsak a tanskod
tudatossg el nem kezd dolgozni szemlyen, s az
a megfigyelsnek szubjektum helyett objektumv
nem vlik, a megvalsuls nem elkpzelhet. A
megvalsulst a tan teszi kvnatoss s
elrhetv.
K: Jnni fog egy pont a szemly letben, amikor a
tanv vlik.
M: , nem. A szemly nem vlik magtl a tanv.
Ez olyan, mint elvrni egy hideg gyertytl, hogy
idvel gni kezdjen. A szemly rkk a tudatlansg
sttjben maradhat, hacsak a tudat lngja meg
nem rinti.
K: Ki gyjtja meg a gyertyt?
M: A Guru. A szavai, a jelenlte. Indiban nagyon
gyakran a mantra. Amint a gyertya meggyulladt, a
lng el fogja hamvasztani a gyertyt.
K: Mirt olyan hatsos a mantra?
M: A mantra lland ismtlse olyasmi, amit a
szemly nem a sajt rdekben csinl. A
haszonlvez nem a szemly. A gyertyhoz
hasonlan, amely nem nvekszik az gssel.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: Can the person become aware of itself by itself?
M: Yes, it happens sometimes as a result of much
suffering. The Guru wants to save you the endless
pain. Such is his grace. Even when there is no
discoverable outer Guru, there is always the
sadguru, the inner Guru, who directs and helps from
within. The words 'outer' and 'inner' are relative to
the body only; in reality all is one, the outer being
merely a projection of the inner. Awareness comes
as if from a higher dimension.
Q: Before the spark is lit and after, what is the
difference?
M: Before the spark is lit there is no witness to
perceive the difference. The person may be
conscious, but is not aware of being conscious. It is
completely identified with what it thinks and feels
and experiences. The darkness that is in it is of its
own creation. When the darkness is questioned, it
dissolves. The desire to question is planted by the
Guru. In other words, the difference between the
person and the witness is as between not knowing
and knowing oneself. The world seen in
consciousness is to be of the nature of
consciousness, when there is harmony (sattva); but
when activity and passivity (rajas and tamas)
appear, they obscure and distort and you see the
false as real.
Q: What can the person do to prepare itself for the
coming of the Guru?
M: The very desire to be ready means that the Guru
had come and the flame is lighted. It may be a stray
word, or a page in a book; the Guru's grace works
mysteriously.
Q: Is there no such thing as self-preparation? We
hear so much about yoga sadhana?
M: It is not the person that is doing sadhana. The
person is in unrest and resistance to the very end. It
is the witness that works on the person, on the
totality of its illusions, past, present and future.
Q: How can we know that what you say is true?
While it is self contained and free from inner
contradictions, how can we know that it is not a
product of fertile imagination, nurtured and enriched
by constant repetition?
M: The proof of the truth lies in its effect on the
listener.
Q: Words can have a most powerful effect. By
hearing, or repeating words, one can experience
various kinds of trances. The listener's experiences
331
K: A szemly nmagra tud eszmlni nmagtl?
M: Igen, megtrtnik nha, sok szenveds
eredmnyeknt. A Guru meg akar tged kmlni a
vgtelen szenvedstl. Mg ha a kls Guru nem is
lthat, mindig ott van a sadguru, a bels Guru, aki
bellrl irnyt s segt. A kls s bels szavak a
testre vonatkoznak csupn; a valsgban minden
egy, a kls lt pusztn a bels kivettse. A tudat
mintha egy magasabb dimenzibl jnne.
K: A szikra fellobbansa eltt, vagy utn, mi a
klnbsg?
M: A szikra fellobbansa eltt nincs tan, hogy
szlelje az eltrst. Lehet, hogy a szemly tudatos,
de nincs tudatban a tudatossgnak. Teljesen
azonosult azzal, amit gondol, rez, s tapasztal. A
benne lv sttsg a sajt teremtmnye. Amikor a
sttsget kutats al veszi, az szertefoszlik. A
kutats vgyt a Guru ltette el. Msszval, a
szemly s a tan kztti klnbsg akkora, mint az
nmaga nem ismerse, s ismerse kztti
klnbsg. Harmnia (sattva) rvnyeslse esetn
a tudatossgban ltott vilg a tudatossg
termszete kell legyen; de aktivits s passzivits
(rajas s tamas) esetn ezek elhomlyostanak s
torztanak, s a hamisat ltod valdiknt.
K: Mit tehet a szemly, hogy elksztse nmagt a
Guru jvetelre?
M: Valjban a vgy az irnt, hogy bevgeztessen
azt jelenti, hogy a Guru megrkezett, s a lng
meggyulladt. Ez lehet egy elejtett sz, vagy egy
oldal egy knyvben; a Guru kegyelmnek mkdse
titokzatos.
K: Nem ltezik olyan dolog, hogy n-elkszts?
Olyan sokat hallunk yoga sadhanrl.
M: Nem a szemly az, aki sadhant vgez. A
szemly nyugtalan, s a vgskig ellenll. A tan
az, aki dolgozik a szemlyen, illziinak, mltjnak,
jelennek s jvjnek teljessgn.
K: Honnan tudhatjuk, hogy igazat mondasz? Amg
nmagban zrt, s bels ellentmondsoktl
mentes, honnan tudhatjuk, hogy nem lland
ismtls tpllta, s erstette, lnk kpzelet
termke?
M: Az igazsg bizonytka a hallgatra gyakorolt
hatsban nyugszik.
K: A szavak hatsa nagyon erteljes lehet. Szavak
hallgatsval, vagy ismtlsvel az ember klnfle
eksztatikus llapotokat tapasztalhat. A hallgat
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
may be induced and cannot be considered as a
proof.
M: The effect need not necessarily be an
experience. It can be a change in character, in
motivation, in relationship to people and one's self.
Trances and visions induced by words, or drugs, or
any other sensory or mental means are temporary
and inconclusive. The truth of what is said here is
immovable and everlasting. And the proof of it is in
the listener, in the deep and permanent changes in
his entire being. It is not something he can doubt,
unless he doubts his own existence, which is
unthinkable. When my experience becomes your
own experience also, what better proof do you
want?
Q: The experiencer is the proof of his experience.
M: Quite, but the experiencer needs no proof. 'I am,
and I know I am'. You cannot ask for further proofs.
Q: Can there be true knowledge of things?
M: Relatively -- yes. Absolutely -- there are no
things. To know that nothing is is true knowledge.
Q: What is the link between the relative and the
absolute?
M: They are identical.
Q: From which point of view are they identical?
M: When the words are spoken, there is silence.
When the relative is over, the absolute remains. The
silence before the words were spoken, is it different
from the silence that comes after? The silence is
one and without it the words could not have been
heard. It is always there -- at the back of the words.
Shift your attention from words to silence and you
will hear it. The mind craves for experience, the
memory of which it takes for knowledge. The gnani
is beyond all experience and his memory is empty of
the past. He is entirely unrelated to anything in
particular. But the mind craves for formulations and
definitions, always eager to squeeze reality into a
verbal shape. Of everything it wants an idea, for
without ideas the mind is not. Reality is essentially
alone, but the mind will not leave it alone -- and
deals instead with the unreal. And yet it is all the
mind can do -- discover the unreal as unreal.
Q: And seeing the real as real?
332
tapasztalatai gerjesztettek is lehetnek, s nem
tekinthetk bizonytknak.
M: Nem szksgszer, hogy a hatsnak
tapasztalsnak kell lennie. Lehet, hogy a
jellemben, motivciiban, az emberekkel, s
nmagval val kapcsolatban fog vltozs
bekvetkezni. A szavakkal, drogokkal, vagy ms
rzkszervi vagy mentlis eszkzzel elidzett
eksztzisok s vzik ideiglenesek, s nem
meggyzek. Az igazsg, ami itt elhangzott
megdnthetetlen, s rkkval. s bizonytka a
hallgatban van, az egsz ltezsnek mly s
maradand vltozsaiban. Ez nem olyasvalami, amit
ktsgbe vonhat, hacsak nem vonja ktsgbe sajt
ltezst, ami elkpzelhetetlen. Ha az n
tapasztalsom a te sajt tapasztalsodd is vlik,
mifle jobb bizonytkot akarsz?
K: A tapasztal a bizonytk sajt tapasztalsra.
M: gy van, de a tapasztalnak nincs szksge
bizonytkra. n vagyok, s tudom, hogy vagyok.
Nem tudsz tovbbi bizonytkokat krni.
K: Lehetsges a dolgokat valban ismerni?
M: Viszonylagos rtelemben igen. Abszolt
rtelemben dolgok nem lteznek. Tudni, hogy
semmi nincs, ez a valdi tuds.
K: Mi a kapcsolat a viszonylagos s az abszolt
kztt?
M: Azonosak.
K: Mely nzpontbl azonosak?
M: A szavak elhangzsa utn csend lesz. A
viszonylagos vgvel az abszolt marad. A szavakat
megelz csend klnbzik az utna kvetkeztl?
A csend egy, s nlkle a szavakat nem lehetne
hallani. Mindig jelen van a szavak mgtt.
Figyelmedet helyezd t a szavakrl a csendre, s
hallani fogod. Az elmnek tapasztalatra van
szksge, amelynek az emlkt tudsnak tartjuk. A
gnani minden tapasztalat fltt ll, s memrija
res a mlttl. Semmifle kapcsolata nincs
semmivel. De az elme szablyokat, s defincikat
kvetel, rkk a valsg verblis formba
prselstl buzog. Mindenre fogalmat akar,
fogalmak nlkl nincs elme. Alapjban vve a
valsg kizrlagos, de az elme nem fogja
kizrlagosnak engedni s helyette a nem
valdival foglalkozik. s mgis, az elme mindssze
egyet tehet felfedezi, hogy a nem valdi nem
valdi.
K: s a valdi valdiknt ltsa?
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
M: There is no such state as seeing the real. Who is
to see what? You can only be the real -- which you
are, anyhow. The problem is only mental. Abandon
false ideas, that is all. There is no need of true
ideas. There aren't any.
Q: Why then are we encouraged to seek the real?
M: The mind must have a purpose. To encourage it
to free itself from the unreal it is promised something
in return. In reality, there is no need of purpose.
Being free from the false is good in itself, it wants no
reward. It is just like being clean -- which is its own
reward.
Q: Is not self-knowledge the reward?
M: The reward of self-knowledge is freedom from
the personal self. You cannot know the knower, for
you are the knower. The fact of knowing proves the
knower. You need no other proof. The knower of the
known is not knowable. Just like the light is known in
colours only, so is the knower known in knowledge.
Q: Is the knower an inference only?
M: You know your body, mind and feelings. Are you
an inference only?
Q: I am an inference to others. But not to myself.
M: So am I. An inference to you, but not to myself. I
know myself by being myself. As you know yourself
to be a man by being one. You do not keep on
reminding yourself that you are a man. It is only
when your humanity is questioned that you assert it.
Similarly, I know that I am all. I do not need to keep
on repeating: 'I am all, I am all'. Only when you take
me to be a particular, a person, I protest. As you are
a man all the time, so I am what I am -- all the time.
Whatever you are changelessly, that you are beyond
all doubt.
Q: When I ask how do you know that you are a
gnani, you answer: 'I find no desire in me. Is this not
a proof?'
M: Were I full of desires, I would have still been what M: Ha lennk vgyakkal tele, akkor is az lennk, ami
I am.
Q: Myself, full of desires and you, full of desires;
what difference would there be?
M: You identify yourself with your desires and
333
M: Olyan llapot, hogy valdiknt lts, nem ltezik.
Kinek kellene ltni, s mit? Te csak a valdi lehetsz
ami vagy, mindenkppen. A problma csupn
mentlis. Hagyj fel el a hamis idekkal, ez minden.
Nincs szksg valdi idekra. Ilyenek nem lteznek.
K: Akkor mi ksztet bennnket a valsg
keressre?
M: Az elmnek cl kell. A valtlantl val
megszabadulsra sztnzni annyi, mint grni
valamit viszonzsul. Valjban nincs szksg clra.
A hamistl val megszabaduls nmagban vve j,
nem kvn jutalmat. Olyan, mint megtisztlkodni
nmagban hordozza a jutalmat.
K: Nem az nismeret a jutalom?
M: Az nismeret jutalma a szemlyes ntl val
megszabaduls. Nem ismerheted a megismert,
mert te vagy a megismer. Az ismeret tnye az
ismer bizonytka. Nincs szksged semmilyen
ms bizonytkra. Az ismert ismerje nem
megismerhet. Mint ahogy a fny csupn a sznek
rvn ismert, gy ismert a megismer az ismeret
rvn.
K: Az ismer kvetkeztets csupn?
M: Ismered a testedet, elmdet s rzseidet. Te
kvetkeztets vagy csupn?
K: n msok szmra kvetkeztets vagyok. De a
magam szmra nem.
M: n szintgy. Kvetkeztets a te szmodra, de
nem a magam szmra. n gy ismerem magam,
mint aki nmaga. Ahogy te egy embernek ismered
magad, mint aki valaki. Nem emlkezteted magad
folyton, hogy ember vagy. Csak emberi mivoltod
megkrdjelezse esetn jelented ki azt. n ppen
gy tudom, hogy n vagyok minden. Nem kell folyton
azt ismtelgetnem, hogy n vagyok minden, n
vagyok minden. Csak akkor tiltakozom amikor te
egyninek, szemlynek tekintesz engem. Ahogy te
llandan ember vagy, gy vagyok n llandan az,
ami vagyok. Brmi, ami megvltozhatatlanul vagy,
minden ktsgen fell az vagy.
K: Amikor azt krdezem, honnan tudod hogy gnani
vagy, azt vlaszolod, hogy Nincs bennem vgy. Ez
nem bizonytk?
vagyok.
K: n tele vgyakkal, te tele vgyakkal; mi lenne a
klnbsg?
M: Te azonostod nmagad a vgyaiddal, s a
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
become their slave. To me desires are things among szolgjukk vlsz. Szmomra a vgyak ugyanolyan
other things, mere clouds in the mental sky, and I do dolgok, mint a tbbi, felhk csupn a mentlis gen,
not feel compelled to act on them. s nem rzek knyszert, hogy nekik megfelelen
cselekedjek.

Q: The knower and his knowledge, are they one or K: Az ismer s ismerete, egyek, vagy klnbzk?
two?

M: They are both. The knower is the unmanifested,
the known is the manifested. The known is always
on the move, it changes, it has no shape of its own,
no dwelling place. The knower is the immutable
support of all knowledge. Each needs the other, but
reality lies beyond. The gnani cannot be known,
because there is nobody to be known. When there is
a person, you can tell something about it, but when
there is no self-identification with the particular, what
can be said? You may tell a gnani anything; his
question will always be: 'about whom are you
talking? There is no such person'. Just as you
cannot say anything about the universe because it
includes everything, so nothing can be said about a
gnani, for he is all and yet nothing in particular. You
need a hook to hang your picture on; when there is
no hook, on what will the picture hang? To locate a
thing you need space, to place an event you need
time; but the timeless and spaceless defies all
handling. It makes everything perceivable, yet itself
it is beyond perception. The mind cannot know what
is beyond the mind, but the mind is known by what is
beyond it. The gnani knows neither birth nor death;
existence and non-existence are the same to him.
M: Mindkett. Az ismer a megnyilvnulatlan, az
ismert a megnyilvnult. Az ismert mindig mozgsban
van, vltozik, nincs sajt formja, nincs lakhelye.
Az ismer minden ismeret megvltozhatatlan
fenntartja. Mindkettnek szksge van a msikra,
de a valsg mindezt meghaladja. A gnani nem
lehet ismert, mert senki nincs, aki ismerhetn t. Ha
van egy szemly, tudsz mondani valamit rla, de
mikor nincs az egynivel val nazonosuls, mit
lehet mondani? Mondhatsz a gnaninak akrmit, a
krdse mindig ez lesz: Kirl beszlsz? Nincs ilyen
szemly. Ahogy nem tudsz semmit mondani az
univerzumrl, mert az magban foglal mindent, gy
a gnanirl sem tudsz mondani semmit, mert
minden, s mgis semmi emltsre mlt. A kped
felakasztshoz egy kampra van szksged, ha
nincs kamp, min fog fggeni a kp? Egy dolog
elhelyezshez trre van szksged, egy esemny
elhelyezshez idre, de az id- s tr nlkli
minden vele val bnst meghist. tesz mindent
szlelhetv, nmaga mgis szlelsen tli. Az
elme nem tudja, mi van az elmn tl, de az elme az
ltal ismert, ami rajta tl van. A gnani tudja, hogy
semmi nem szletik, s nem is hal meg, ltezs s
nem ltezs egyformk szmra.

Q: When your body dies, you remain. K: Amikor a tested meghal, te fennmaradsz.

M: Nothing dies. The body is just imagined. There is M: Semmi nem hal meg. A test elkpzels csupn.
no such thing. Nincs ilyen dolog.

Q: Before another century will pass, you will be dead
to all around you. Your body will be covered with
flowers, then burnt and the ashes scattered. That
will be our experience. What will be yours?
K: Mieltt a kvetkez vszzad bekvetkezne,
meghalsz a krltted lvk szmra. A testedet
virgokkal fogjk betakarni, majd elgetnek, s a
hamvaikat sztszrjk. Ez lesz a mi tapasztalatunk.
Mi lesz a tid?

M: Time will come to an end. This is called the Great M: Az id a vghez fog rkezni. Ezt hvjk a Nagy
Death (mahamrityu), the death of time. Hallnak (mahamrityu), a hall idejnek.

Q: Does it mean that the universe and its contents K: Ez azt jelenti, hogy az univerzum s annak
will come to an end? tartalma vget r?

M: The universe is your personal experience. How M: Az univerzum a te szemlyes tapasztalatod.

can it be affected? You might have been delivering a
lecture for two hours; where has it gone when it is
over? It has merged into silence in which the
beginning, middle and end of the lecture are all
together. Time has come to a stop, it was, but is no
more. The silence after a life of talking and the
silence after a life of silence is the same silence.
Immortality is freedom from the feeling: 'I am'. Yet it
Hogyan lehetne rintett? Tartasz egy kt rs
eladst, hov lett, amikor vge van? Beleolvadt a
csendbe, amelyben benne van az elads kezdete,
kzepe s vge egyarnt. Az id elrkezett a
vghez, volt, de nincs tbb. Az let beszdt
kvet csend, s az let csendjt kvet csend,
ugyanaz a csend. A halhatatlansg nem ms, mint
az n vagyok rzstl val szabadsg. De

334
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
is not extinction. On the contrary, it is a state
infinitely more real, aware and happy than you can
possibly think of. Only self-consciousness is no
more.
Q: Why does the Great Death of the mind coincide
with the 'small death' of the body?
M: It does not. You may die a hundred deaths
without a break in the mental turmoil. Or, you may
keep your body and die only in the mind. The death
of the mind is the birth of wisdom.
Q: The person goes and only the witness remains.
M: Who remains to say: 'I am the witness'. When
there is no 'I am', where is the witness? In the
timeless state there is no self to take refuge in.
The man who carries a parcel is anxious not to lose
it -- he is parcel-conscious. The man who cherishes
the feeling 'I am' is self-conscious. The gnani holds
on to nothing and cannot be said to be conscious.
And yet he is not unconscious. He is the very heart
of awareness. We call him digambara clothed in
space, the Naked One, beyond all appearance.
There is no name and shape under which he may be
said to exist, yet he is the only one that truly is.
Q: I cannot grasp it.
M: Who can? The mind has its limits. It is enough to
bring you to the very frontiers of knowledge and
make you face the immensity of the unknown. To
dive in it is up to you.
Q: What about the witness? Is it real or unreal?
M: It is both. The last remnant of illusion, the first
touch of the real. To say: I am only the witness is
both false and true: false because of the 'I am', true
because of the witness. It is better to say: 'there is
witnessing'. The moment you say: 'I am', the entire
universe comes into being along with its creator.
Q: Another question: can we visualise the person
and the self as two brothers small and big? The little
brother is mischievous and selfish, rude and
restless, while the big brother is intelligent and kind,
reasonable and considerate, free from body
consciousness with its desires and fears. The big
brother knows the little one. But the small one is
ignorant of the big one and thinks itself to be entirely
on its own. The Guru comes and tells the smaller
one: 'You are not alone, you come from a very good
family, your brother is a very remarkable man, wise
and kind, and he loves you very much. Remember
335
mgsem megszns. Ellenkezleg, olyan llapot,
amely vgtelenl valsabb, berebb, s boldogabb,
mint amit valsznleg el tudsz kpzelni. Csak az
n-tudatossg sznik meg.
K: Mirt esik egybe a Nagy Hall a test kis
hallval?
M: Nem esik egybe. Szz hallod is lehet anlkl,
hogy a mentlis nyugtalansg sznetelne. Vagy,
fenntarthatod a testedet, s meghalhatsz az
elmben csupn. Az elme halla a blcsessg
szletse.
K: A szemly eltvozik, s csak a tan marad.
M: Ki marad itt, azt mondani: n vagyok a tan?
Amikor nincs n vagyok, hol a tan? Az idtlen
llapotban nincs n, hogy menedket talljon.
A csomagot cipel ember azon igyekszik, nehogy
azt elvesztse csomag-tudatos. Aki az n
vagyok rzst fenntartja, az n-tudatos. A gnani
nem cipel semmit, s nem mondhat tudatosnak. s
mgsem tudattalan. valjban a tudat szve. gy
nevezzk t, hogy digambara, a semmibe ltztt, a
Meztelen Egy, aki minden megjelenst meghalad.
Nincs neve s formja, ami szerint lteznek lenne
mondhat, mgis, az egyetlen, aki igazn van.
K: Nem rtem.
M: Ki tudn? Az elmnek korltai vannak. Elegend,
ha elvezet tged a tuds hatraihoz, s szembest
tged az ismeretlen vgtelensgvel. Amelyben
aztn nmagadig merlsz al.
K: Mi a vlemnyed a tanrl? Vals, vagy nem
vals?
M: Mindkett. Az illzi utols maradka, a
valsgos els rintse. Azt mondani: n csupn a
tan vagyok, egyarnt hamis s igaz: hamis az n
vagyok miatt, s igaz a tan miatt. Jobb azt
mondani: ltezik tansg. Abban a pillanatban,
hogy azt mondod: n vagyok, az egsz univerzum
megszletik, teremtjvel egytt.
K: Msik krds: gondolhatunk gy a szemlyre s
az nre, mint kt testvrre, egy kis s egy nagy
testvrre? A kisebbik testvr rosszindulat, nz,
durva s nyugtalan, mg a nagy testvr intelligens,
jindulat, rtelmes s megfontolt, mentes a
testtudatossgtl, s annak vgyaitl s flelmeitl.
A nagy testvr ismeri a kicsit. De a kicsi nem tud a
nagyrl, s teljesen nllnak gondolja magt. Jn a
Guru, s kzli a kisebbikkel: Nem vagy egyedl,
nagyon j csaldbl szrmazol, a testvred nagyon
jelents ember, blcs s jszv, s nagyon szeret
tged. Emlkezz r, gondolj r, keresd t, szolgld
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
him, think of him, find him, serve him, and you will
become one with him'. Now, the question is are
there two in us, the personal and the individual, the
false self and the true self, or is it only a simile?
M: It is both. They appear to be two, but on
investigation they are found to be one. Duality lasts
only as long as it is not questioned. The trinity: mind,
self and spirit (vyakti, vyakta, avyakta), when looked
into, becomes unity. These are only modes of
experiencing: of attachment, of detachment, of
transcendence.
Q: Your assumption that we are in a dream state
makes your position unassailable. Whatever
objection we raise, you just deny its validity. One
cannot discuss with you.
M: The desire to discuss is also mere desire. The
desire to know, to have the power, even the desire
to exist are desires only. Everybody desires to be, to
survive, to continue, for no one is sure of himself.
But everybody is immortal. You make yourself
mortal by taking yourself to be the body.
Q: Since you have found your freedom, will you not
give me a little of it?
M: Why little? Take the whole. Take it, it is there for
the taking. But you are afraid of freedom.
Q: Swami Ramdas had to deal with a similar
request. Some devotees collected round him one
day and began to ask for liberation. Ramdas listened
smilingly and then suddenly he became serious and
said: You can have it, here and now, freedom
absolute and permanent. Who wants it, come
forward. Nobody moved. Thrice he repeated the
offer. None accepted. Then he said: 'The offer is
withdrawn'.
M: Attachment destroys courage. The giver is
always ready to give. The taker is absent. Freedom
means letting go. People just do not care to let go
everything. They do not know that the finite is the
price of the infinite, as death is the price of
immortality. Spiritual maturity lies in the readiness to
let go everything. The giving up is the first step. But
the real giving up is in realising that there is nothing
to give up, for nothing is your own. It is like deep
sleep -- you do not give up your bed when you fall
sleep -- you just forget it.
74. Truth is Here and Now
336
t, s eggy vlsz vele. Most az a krds, hogy
kett van bennnk, a szemlyes, s a klnleges, a
hamis s a valdi n, vagy ez egy hasonlat csupn?
M: Mindkett. Kettnek mutatkoznak, de ha kutatod,
egynek tallod ket. A kettssg csak addig tart,
amg ktsgbe nem vonod. A hromsg: elme, n,
s szellem (vyakti, vyakta, avyakta), a
tanulmnyozsuk sorn egy vlik. Ezek mdjai csak
a tapasztalsnak: az sszekapcsolsnak,
sztvlasztsnak, meghaladsnak.
K: Feltevsed, miszerint lom llapotban vagyunk,
llspontodat vitra alkalmatlann teszi. Brmilyen
ellenvetssel lnk, te egyszeren elutastod annak
rvnyessgt. Az ember nem tud veled vitatkozni.
M: A vitatkozs vgya is puszta vgy csupn. A
vgy az irnt, hogy tudj, hogy hatalmad legyen, de
mg a ltezs irnti vgy is, vgyak csupn.
Mindenki lenni, tllni, megmaradni vgyik, mert
senki nem biztos nmagban. Azonban mindenki
halhatatlan. Te teszed magad halandv azltal,
hogy nmagadat a testnek tartod.
K: Minthogy te megtalltad a sajt szabadsgodat,
nem adnl nekem egy kicsit belle?
M: Mirt kicsit? Vedd az egszet. Vedd el, azrt van,
hogy elvedd. De te flsz a szabadsgtl.
K: Swami Ramdasnak egy hasonl krssel volt
dolga. Nhny rajong kr gylt egy nap, s krni
kezdtk tle a megszabadulst. Ramdas
mosolyogva hallgatott, majd hirtelen elkomolyodott,
s azt mondta: megkaphatod, itt s most, az
abszolt, s maradand szabadsgot. Aki akarja,
lpjen elre. Senki nem moccant. Hromszor
ismtelte meg az ajnlatot. Senki nem fogadta el.
Aztn azt mondta: Az ajnlat visszavonva.
M: A ktttsg elpuszttja a btorsgot. Az ad
mindig ksz az adsra. A fogad hinyzik. A
szabadsg elengedst jelent. Az emberek nem
igazn hajlandk arra, hogy mindent elengedjenek.
Nem tudjk, hogy a vges az ra a vgtelennek,
mint ahogy a hall az ra a halhatatlansgnak. A
spiritulis rettsg abban ll, hogy ksz vagy
elengedni mindent. A felads az els lps. De a
valdi felads annak a felismerse, hogy nincs mit
feladni, mert semmi nem a tied. Olyan ez, mint a
mly alvs nem adod fel az gyadat, mikor lomba
zuhansz csak elfelejted azt.
74. Az igazsg itt s most van
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Questioner: My question is: What is the proof of
truth? Followers of every religion, metaphysical or
political, philosophical or ethical, are convinced that
theirs is the only truth, that all else is false and they
take their own unshakable conviction for the proof of
truth. 'I am convinced, so it must be true', they say. It
seems to me, that no philosophy or religion, no
doctrine or ideology, however complete, free from
inner contradictions and emotionally appealing, can
be the proof of its own truth. They are like clothes
men put on, which vary with times and
circumstances and follow the fashion trends.
Now, can there be a religion or philosophy which is
true and which does not depend on somebody's
conviction? Nor on scriptures, because they again
depend on somebody's faith in them? Is there a truth
which does not depend on trusting, which is not
subjective?
Maharaj: What about science?
Q: Science is circular, it ends where it starts, with
the senses. It deals with experience, and experience
is subjective. No two persons can have the same
experience, though they may express it in the same
words.
M: You must look for truth beyond the mind.
Q: Sir, I have had enough of trances. Any drug can
induce them cheaply and quickly. Even the classical
samadhis, caused by breathing or mental exercises,
are not much different. There are oxygen samadhis
and carbon dioxide samadhis and self induced
samadhis, caused by repetition of a formula or a
chain of thoughts. Monotony is soporific. I cannot
accept samadhi, however glorious, as a proof of
truth.
M: Samadhi is beyond experience. It is a qualityless
state.
Q: The absence of experience is due to inattention.
It reappears with attention. Closing one's eyes does
not disprove light. Attributing reality to negative
states will not take us far. The very negation
contains an affirmation.
M: In a way you are right. But don't you see, you are
asking for the proof of truth, without explaining what
is the truth you have in mind and what proof will
satisfy you? You can prove anything, provided you
trust your proof. But what will prove that your proof is
true? I can easily drive you into an admission that
you know only that you exist -- that you are the only
proof you can have of anything. But I do not identify
mere existence with reality. Existence is momentary,
337
Krdez: A krdsem a kvetkez: Mi az igazsg
bizonytka? Mindegyik valls, metafizika, politika,
filozfia vagy etika kveti meg vannak rla
gyzdve, hogy vk az egyetlen igazsg, hogy
minden ms hamis, s egyedl k birtokoljk az
igazsg rendthetetlen bizonytkt.
Meggyzdsem, ezrt igaznak kell lennie.,
mondjk. Nekem gy tnik, hogy nem filozfia vagy
valls, nem doktrna vagy ideolgia, hanem a bels
ellentmondsoktl, s rzelmi megindulstl val
teljes mentessg lehet igazunknak a bizonytka.
Ezek ppen olyanok, mint az ember ruhi, amelyek
az idvel s a krlmnyekkel vltoznak, s
divatirnyzatokat kvetnek.
Na mr most, lehetsges-e olyan valls vagy
filozfia, amely igaz, s amely nem fgg senkinek a
hittl? Szent knyvektl sem, mert azok megint
csak az emberek beljk vetett hittl fggenek.
Van-e olyan igazsg, amely nem hiten alapszik,
amely nem szubjektv?
Maharaj: Mi a vlemnyed a tudomnyrl?
K: A tudomny krben forog, ott vgzdik, ahol
kezddik, az rzkelsnl. Tapasztalatokkal
foglalkozik, s a tapasztalat szubjektv. Nincs kt
olyan ember, akiknek ugyanaz lenne a tapasztalata,
jllehet, azonos szavakkal fejezik ki magukat.
M: Az igazsgot az elmn tl kell keresned.
K: Uram, elegem lett az eksztzisokbl. Ezeket
brmelyik drog olcsn s gyorsan elidzheti. Mg a
lgz vagy mentlis gyakorlatokkal elidzett
klasszikus samadhik sem nagyon klnbznek.
Vannak oxign samadhik, szndioxid samadhik, s
ninduklt samadhik, amelyeket formulk, s
gondolat lncok ismtelgetse idz el. A monotnia
altat hats. Nem tudom elfogadni a samadhit,
brmilyen nagyszer, az igazsg bizonytkaknt.
M: A samadhi meghaladja a tapasztalst. Egy
minsg nlkli llapot.
K: A tapasztalat hinya a figyelmetlensg miatt van.
A figyelemmel jra megjelenik. A szemek becsuksa
nem cfolja a fnyt. A negatv llapotok valsgknt
elknyvelsvel nem jutunk messzire. A tagads
valjban lltst foglal magban.
M: Bizonyos rtelemben igazad van. De nem ltod,
hogy anlkl kred az igazsg bizonytkt, hogy
kifejtend, mi az elmdben lv igazsg, s hogy
milyen bizonytkkal lennl megelgedve? Be tudsz
bizonytani brmit, hiszel a bizonytsodban. De mi
bizonytja a bizonytsod helyessgt? n knnyen
r tudlak vezetni annak elfogadsra, hogy annyit
tudsz csak, hogy ltezel hogy te vagy az egyetlen
bizonytk, amivel brmire vonatkozan rendelkezel.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
always in time and space, while reality is changeless De n nem azonostom a puszta ltezst a
and all-pervading. valsggal. A ltezs pillanatnyi, mindig id- s
trbeli, mg a valsg vltozatlan, s mindent that.

Q: Sir, I do not know what is truth and what can K: Uram, n nem tudom, hogy mi az igazsg, s
prove it. Do not throw me on my own resources. I hogy mi bizonythatja azt. Ne bzz engem sajt
have none. Here you are the truth-knower, not me. erforrsaimra. Nekem nincsenek. Itt te vagy az
igazsg ismerje, nem n.

M: You refuse testimony as the proof of truth: the
experience of others is of no use to you, you reject
all inference from the concurring statements of a
vast number of independent witnesses; so it is for
you to tell me what is the proof that will satisfy you,
what is your test of a valid proof?
M: Nem fogadod el a tansgot az igazsg
bizonytkaknt: a msok tapasztalatnak semmi
haszna szmodra, elutastasz minden olyan
kvetkeztetst, amely nagyszm, fggetlen tan
egybehangz beszmoljbl szrmazik; gy rd
marad, hogy megmondd, milyen bizonytk fog
tged kielgteni, s hogy mi az rvnyes bizonytk
ellenrzse?

Q: Honestly, I do not know what makes a proof. K: Becsletszavamra, nem tudom, mi teszi a
bizonytkot.

M: Not even your own experience? M: Mg sajt tapasztalatod sem?

Q: Neither my experience, nor even existence. They K: Sem sajt tapasztalatom, de mg a ltezs sem.
depend on my being conscious. Ezek lt-tudatossgomtl fggenek.

M: And your being conscious depends on what? M: s lt-tudatossgod mitl fgg?

Q: I do not know. Formerly, I would have said: on K: Nem tudom. Azeltt azt mondtam volna: a
my body; now I can see that the body is secondary, testemtl; most mr ltom, hogy a test msodlagos,
not primary, and cannot be considered as an nem elsdleges, s nem tekinthet a ltezs
evidence of existence. bizonyossgnak.

M: I am glad you have abandoned the l-am-the-body M: rlk, hogy feladtad az n-vagyok-a-test idet,
idea, the main source of error and suffering. ami a tveds s szenveds f forrsa.

Q: I have abandoned it intellectually, but the sense
of being the particular, a person, is still with me. I
can say: 'I am', but what I am I cannot say. I know I
exist, but I do not know what exists. Whichever way I
put it, I face the unknown.
K: Intellektulisan feladtam, de az rzs, hogy
egyedi ltez, egy szemly vagyok, mg bennem
van. Tudom: n vagyok, de hogy mi vagyok, azt
nem tudom megmondani. Tudom, hogy ltezem, de
nem tudom, hogy mi ltezik. Akrmelyik ton
kzeltem, az ismeretlennel szembeslk.

M: Your very being is the real. M: Pontosan a lted a valsg.

Q: Surely, we are not talking of the same thing. I am
not some abstract being. I am a person, limited and
aware of its limitations. I am a fact, but a most
unsubstantial fact I am. There is nothing I can build
on my momentary existence as a person.
K: Bizonyra nem ugyanarrl a dologrl beszlnk.
n nem valamilyen absztrakt lny vagyok. Szemly
vagyok, korltozott, s korltainak tudatban lv.
Egy tny vagyok, de a legalaptalanabb tny. Nincs
semmi, amire szemlyknt tmeneti ltemet
pthetem.

M: Your words are wiser than you are. As a person, M: Szavaid blcsebbek, mint te magad.
your existence is momentary. But are you a person Szemlyknt val ltezsed tmenti. De szemly
only? Are you a person at all? vagy-e csupn? Szemly vagy-e egyltaln?

Q: How am I to answer? My sense of being proves K: Hogy vlaszoljak? Lt rzsem annyit bizonyt
only that I am; it does not prove anything which is csupn, hogy vagyok, nem bizonyt semmi olyat, ami
independent of me. I am relative, both creature and tlem fggetlen. Relatv vagyok, a relatvnak
creator of the relative. The absolute proof of the csakgy a teremtmnye, mint teremtje. Az abszolt

338
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
absolute truth -- what is it, where is it? Can the mere igazsg abszolt bizonytka mi ez, hol tallhat?
feeling 'I am' be the proof of reality? Lehet-e az n vagyok puszta rzse a bizonytka
a valsgnak?

M: Of course not. 'I am' and 'the world is' are related M: Termszetesen nem. Az n vagyok s a vilg
and conditional. They are due to the tendency of the van egymssal sszefggsben lvk s
mind to project names and shapes. felttelesek. Az elme hajlamnak ksznheten
kerlnek nvknt s formaknt kivettsre.

Q: Names and shapes and ideas and convictions,
but not truth. But for you, I would have accepted the
relativity of everything, including truth, and learnt to
live by assumptions. But then I meet you and hear
you talking of the Absolute as within my reach and
also as supremely desirable. Words like peace,
bliss, eternity, immortality, catch my attention, as
offering freedom from pain and fear. My inborn
instincts: pleasure seeking and curiosity are roused
and I begin to explore the realm you have opened.
All seems most attractive and naturally I ask. Is it
attainable? Is it real?
K: Nevek, formk, idek s meggyzdsek, de
nem igazsg. De a kedvedrt elfogadnm
mindennek a viszonylagossgt, belertve az
igazsgot, s megtanulnk felttelezsek alapjn
lni. De aztn tallkozom veled, s hallom, hogy az
Abszoltrl beszlsz, mint szmomra elrhetrl, s
egyben a legkvnatosabbrl. Olyan szavak
ragadjk meg a figyelmemet, mint bke, boldogsg,
rkkvalsg, halhatatlansg, mivel ezek
fjdalomtl s flelemtl val szabadsgot grnek.
Termszet adta hajlamaim: az rmkeress s a
kvncsisg feltmadnak, s elkezdem felkutatni a
birodalmat, amelyet kinyitottl. Minden a
legvonzbbnak ltszik, s termszetesen addik a
krds. Elrhet ez? Valsg ez?

M: You are like a child that says: Prove that the
sugar is sweet then only I shall have it. The proof of
the sweetness is in the mouth not in the sugar. To
know it is sweet, you must taste it, there is no other
way. Of course, you begin by asking: Is it sugar? Is it
sweet? and you accept my assurance until you taste
it. Then only all doubts dissolve and your knowledge
becomes first hand and unshakable. I do not ask
you to believe me. Just trust me enough to begin
with. Every step proves or disproves itself. You
seem to want the proof of truth to precede truth. And
what will be the proof of the proof? You see, you are
falling into a regress. To cut it you must put a stop to
asking for proofs and accept, for a moment only,
something as true. It does not really matter what it
is. It may be God, or me, or your own self. In each
case you accept something, or somebody, unknown
as true. Now, if you act on the truth you have
accepted, even for a moment, very soon you will be
brought to the next step. It is like climbing a tree in
the dark -- you can get hold of the next branch only
when you are perched on the previous one. In
science it is called the experimental approach. To
prove a theory you carry out an experiment
according to the operational instructions, left by
those who have made the experiment before you. In
spiritual search the chain of experiments one has to
make is called Yoga.
M: Olyan vagy, mint egy gyerek, aki azt mondja:
bizonytsd be, hogy a cukor des, csak akkor veszek
belle. Az dessg bizonytka a szjban van, nem
a cukorban. Akkor tudod, hogy des, ha
megkstolod, nincs ms mdja. Termszetesen,
elkezdhetsz krdezskdni: ez cukor? des? s
amg meg nem kstolod, elfogadod az lltsomat.
Minden ktsged majd csak akkor oszlik el, s
tudsod majd csak akkor vlik kzvetlenn, s
rendthetetlenn. Nem krem, hogy higgy nekem.
Csak elszr bzz meg bennem. Minden lps
nmagt bizonytja, vagy cfolja. gy tnik azt
akarod, hogy az igazsg bizonytka jrjon az
igazsg eltt. s mi lesz a bizonytknak a
bizonytka? Ltod, ez visszafel mozgs.
Elvgshoz le kell llnod a bizonytkok krsvel,
s el kell fogadnod, egy pillanatra csak, igaznak
valamit. Nem igazn szmt, hogy mi az. Lehet az
Isten, vagy n, vagy a te sajt ned. Mindegyik
esetben valami, vagy valaki ismeretlent fogadsz el
igaznak. Most, ha az elfogadott igazsg szerint
cselekszel, mg ha egy pillanatra is, nagyon hamar
el fogsz jutni a kvetkez lpsig. Olyan ez, mint
sttben fra mszni csak akkor kaparinthatod
meg a kvetkez gat, amikor felkapaszkodtl az
elzre. A tudomnyban ezt tapasztalati
megkzeltsnek nevezik. A teria igazolshoz
vgre kell hajtanod egy ksrletet a vonatkoz
instrukciknak megfelelen, amit azok hagytak meg,
akik a ksrletet eltted mr elvgeztk. A spiritulis
keress esetben a ksrleteknek azt a lnct, amit
az embernek vgre kell hajtani, Yognak hvjk.

Q: There are so many Yogas, which to choose? K: Olyan sok Yoga ltezik, melyiket vlasszam?

339
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
M: Of course, every gnani will suggest the path of
his own attainment as the one he knows most
intimately. But most of them are very liberal and
adapt their advice to the needs of the enquirer. All
the paths take you to the purification of the mind.
The impure mind is opaque to truth; the pure mind is
transparent. Truth can be seen through it easily and
clearly.
Q: I am sorry, but I seem unable to convey my
difficulty. I am asking about the proof of truth and am
being given the methods of attaining it. Assuming I
follow the methods and attain some most wonderful
and desirable state, how do I come to know that my
state is true? Every religion begins with faith and
promises some ecstasy. Is the ecstasy of the real, or
the product of faith? For, if it is an induced state, I
shall have nothing to do with it. Take Christianity that
says: Jesus is your Saviour, believe and be saved
from sin. When I ask a sinning Christian how is it
that he has not been saved from sin in spite of his
faith in Christ, he answers: My faith is not perfect.
Again we are in the vicious circle -- without perfect
faith -- no salvation, without salvation -- no perfect
faith, hence no salvation. Conditions are imposed
which are unfulfillable and then we are blamed for
not fulfilling them.
M: You do not realise that your present waking state
is one of ignorance. Your question about the proof of
truth is born from ignorance of reality. You are
contacting your sensory and mental states in
consciousness, at the point of 'I am', while reality is
not mediated, not contacted, not experienced. You
are taking duality so much for granted, that you do
not even notice it, while to me variety and diversity
do not create separation. You imagine reality to
stand apart from names and forms, while to me
names and forms are the ever changing expressions
of reality and not apart from it. You ask for the proof
of truth while to me all existence is the proof. You
separate existence from being and being from
reality, while to me it is all one. However much you
are convinced of the truth of your waking state, you
do not claim it to be permanent and changeless, as I
do when I talk of mine. Yet I see no difference
between us, except that you are imagining things,
while I do not.
Q: First you disqualify me from asking about truth,
then you accuse me of imagination. What is
imagination to you is reality to me.
340
M: Termszetesen minden gnani azt az utat fogja
javasolni, amelyet sajt maga megvalstott, mivel
azt ismeri a legkzvetlenebbl. De legtbbjk
nagyon szabad szellem, s tancsait a keres
szksgleteihez teszi alkalmass. Mindegyik t az
elme megtisztulshoz vezet. A tiszttalan elme
tltszatlan az igazsg szmra, a tiszta elme
tltsz. Rajta keresztl knnyen s tisztn lthat
az igazsg.
K: Sajnlom, gy ltszik, kptelen vagyok a
nehzsgem tolmcsolsra. Az igazsg
bizonytkt keresem, s megvalstsnak a
mdszereit. Tegyk fel, hogy kvetem a
mdszereket, s elrek valamilyen nagyon
csodlatos, s kvnatos llapotot, honnan tudom,
hogy llapotom valdi? Minden valls hittel
kezddik, s az grete valamifle elragadtats. Az
elragadtats a valsg, vagy a hit kvetkezmnye?
Mert ha ez egy induklt llapot, akkor nem tudok mit
kezdeni vele. Vegyk a keresztnysget, ami azt
mondja: Jzus a te Megmentd, higgy, s
megmentetsz a bntl. Amikor egy vtkes
keresztnyt krdezek, mirt nem meneklt meg a
bntl, Krisztusba vetett hite ellenre, azt feleli: nem
tkletes a hitem. Ismt benne vagyunk az rdgi
krben tkletes hit nlkl nincs megvlts,
megvlts nlkl nincs tkletes hit, ezrt nincs
megvlts. Olyanok a fellltott felttelek, hogy nem
lehet ket teljesteni, s aztn mg mi kapjuk a
szemrehnyst, mert nem teljestjk azokat.
M: Nem ismered fel, hogy jelen brenlti llapotod a
tudatlansg egy llapota. Az igazsg bizonytkra
vonatkoz krdsed a valsg nem ismersbl
szletett. Tudatossgbeli rzkelsi s mentlis
llapotaiddal az n vagyok pontjban rintkezel,
mg a valsggal nincs kapcsolatod, nem rintkezel
vele, nem tapasztalod. A kettssget annyira
biztosnak tekinted, hogy soha mg csak szre sem
veszed, mg az n szmomra a vltozatossg s
klnbzsg nem hoz ltre elklnlst. Te a
valsgot a nevektl s formktl klnllnak
kpzeled, mg szmomra a nevek s formk a
valsg rkk vltoz kifejezsei, s nem tle
klnll dolgok. Te ignyled a bizonytkt az
igazsgnak, mg szmomra az sszes ltezs a
bizonytk. Te elklnted a ltezst a lttl, s a
ltet a valsgtl, mg szmomra minden egy.
Annak ellenre, hogy meg vagy gyzdve brenlti
llapotod valsgrl, nem lpsz fel azzal ignnyel,
hogy lland s vltozatlan legyen, ahogy azt n
teszem, mikor az llapotomrl beszlek. Mgsem
ltok klnbsget kzttnk, attl eltekintve, hogy te
mindenfle dolgokat kpzelsz, mg n nem.
K: Elbb abban akadlyozol, hogy az igazsgrl
krdezzek, majd kpzeldssel vdolsz. Ami neked
kpzelds, az nekem valsg.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
M: Until you investigate. I am not accusing you of
anything. I am only asking you to question wisely.
Instead of searching for the proof of truth, which you
do not know, go through the proofs you have of what
you believe to know. You will find you know nothing
for sure -- you trust on hearsay. To know the truth,
you must pass through your own experience.
Q: I am mortally afraid of samadhis and other
trances, whatever their cause. A drink, a smoke, a
fever, a drug, breathing, singing, shaking, dancing,
whirling, praying, sex or fasting, mantras or some
vertiginous abstraction can dislodge me from my
waking state and give me some experience,
extraordinary because unfamiliar. But when the
cause ceases, the effect dissolves and only a
memory remains, haunting but fading.
Let us give up all means and their results, for the
results are bound by the means; let us put the
question anew; can truth be found?
M: Where is the dwelling place of truth where you
could go in search of it? And how will you know that
you have found it? What touchstone do you bring
with you to test it? You are back at your initial
question: What is the proof of truth? There must be
something wrong with the question itself, for you
tend to repeat it again and again. Why do you ask
what are the proofs of truth? Is it not because you do
not know truth first hand and you are afraid that you
may be deceived? You imagine that truth is a thing
which carries the name 'truth' and that it is
advantageous to have it, provided it is genuine.
Hence your fear of being cheated. You are shopping
for truth, but you do not trust the merchants. You are
afraid of forgeries and imitations.
Q: I am not afraid of being cheated. I am afraid of
cheating myself.
M: But you are cheating yourself in your ignorance
of your true motives. You are asking for truth, but in
fact you merely seek comfort, which you want to last
for ever. Now, nothing, no state of mind, can last for
ever. In time and space there is always a limit,
because time and space themselves are limited.
And in the timeless the words 'for ever' have no
meaning. The same with the 'proof of truth'. In the
realm of non-duality everything is complete, its own
proof, meaning and purpose. Where all is one, no
supports are needed. You imagine that permanence
is the proof of truth, that what lasts longer is
somehow more true. Time becomes the measure of
truth. And since time is in the mind, the mind
becomes the arbiter and searches within itself for
341
M: Amg ki nem kutatod. n nem vdollak tged
semmivel. n csupn arra krlek, hogy krdezz
blcsen. Ahelyett, hogy egy olyan igazsg
bizonytkt keresed, amelyet nem ismersz, haladj
olyan bizonytkokon keresztl, amelyeket ismerni
vlsz. R fogsz jnni, hogy semmit nem tudsz
biztosan mendemondkban hiszel. Az igazsg
ismerethez az t a sajt tapasztalataidon keresztl
vezet.
K: A samadik, s ms nkvleti llapotok hallosan
ijesztek szmomra, brmi okbl is kvetkezzenek
be. Ital, cigaretta, izgalom, drog, lgzs, nekls,
rzkds, tncols, prgs, imdkozs, szex, bjt,
mantrk s mindenfle szdlssel jr absztrakcik
kimozdthatnak ber llapotombl, s szolglhatnak
bizonyos lmnyekkel, amelyek azrt rendkvliek,
mert szokatlanok. De az okok megsznsekor a
hats szertefoszlik, s csak egy visszatr, de egyre
halvnyul emlk marad,.
Mondjunk le minden eszkzrl, s eredmnyeikrl,
mert az eredmnyek az eszkzkhz ktttek,
tegyk fel a krdst jbl, megtallhat-e az
igazsg?
M: Hol az igazsg lakhelye, ahov elmehetnl
felkutatni azt? s honnan fogod tudni, hogy
megtalltad? Milyen prbakvet fogsz magaddal,
vinni, hogy leellenrizd? Visszatrtl a kezdeti
krdsedhez: mi a az igazsg bizonytka? Valami
bajnak magval a krdssel kell lennie, ha jra s
jra hajlamos vagy megismtelni. Mirt krded, hogy
mi a bizonytka az igazsgnak? Nem azrt, mert az
igazsgot nem els kzbl ismered, s flsz a
tvedstl? Azt kpzeled, hogy az igazsg egy
igazsg nevet visel dolog, s hogy a birtoklsa
hasznot hajt, feltve, hogy hiteles. A becsapstl
val flelmed innen ered. Igazsgot vsrolsz, de a
kereskednek nem hiszel. Flsz a hamistvnyoktl,
s utnzatoktl.
K: Nem attl flek, hogy becsapnak. Az
nbecsapstl flek.
M: De nmagadat valdi motvumaid nem
ismersvel csapod be. Igazsgot krsz, de
valjban te csupn knyelmet keresel, amelyet
meg akarsz tartani rkre. Mrpedig semmi,
semmilyen elmellapot nem tarthat rkk. Az id-
s trbeli dolgok mindig korltosak, mivel id s tr
nmaga is korltos. s az idtlenben az rkk
sznak nincs jelentse. Ugyanez a helyzet az
valsg bizonytka szavakkal. A nem-kettssg
birodalmban minden teljes, nmaga bizonytka,
jelentse s clja. Ahol minden egy, ott semmilyen
igazolsra nincs szksg. Azt kpzeled, hogy az
llandsg a valsg bizonytka, hogy ami tovbb
tart, az valahogy sokkal valdibb. Az id a valsg
mrtkv vlik. s mivel az id az elmben van, az
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
the proof of truth -- a task altogether impossible and
hopeless.
Q: Sir, were you to say: Nothing is true, all is
relative, I would agree with you. But you maintain
there is truth, reality, perfect knowledge, therefore I
ask: What is it and how do you know? And what will
make me say: Yes, Maharaj was right?
M: You are holding on to the need for a proof, a
testimony, an authority. You still imagine that truth
needs pointing at and telling you: 'Look, here is
truth'. It is not so. Truth is not the result of an effort,
the end of a road. It is here and now, in the very
longing and the search for it. It is nearer than the
mind and the body, nearer than the sense 'I am'.
You do not see it because you look too far away
from yourself, outside your innermost being. You
have objectified truth and insist on your standard
proofs and tests, which apply only to things and
thoughts.
Q: All I can make out from what you say is that truth
is beyond me and I am not qualified to talk about it.
M: You are not only qualified, but you are truth itself. M: Nem csupn alkalmas vagy, de te vagy az
Only you mistake the false for the true.
Q: You seem to say: Don't ask for proofs of truth.
Concern yourself with untruth only.
M: The discovery of truth is in the discernment of the
false. You can know what is not. What is -- you can
only be. Knowledge is relative to the known. In a
way it is the counterpart of ignorance. Where
ignorance is not, where is the need of knowledge?
By themselves neither ignorance nor knowledge
have being. They are only states of mind, which
again is but an appearance of movement in
consciousness which is in its essence immutable.
Q: Is truth within the realm of the mind or beyond?
M: It is neither, it is both. It cannot be put into words. M: Egyik helyen sem, s mindkettn. Ez szavakkal
Q: This is what I hear all the time -- inexpressible
(anirvachaniya). It does not make me wiser.
M: It is true that it often covers sheer ignorance. The M: Igaz, hogy ezt gyakran teljes tudatlansg fedi. Az
mind can operate with terms of its own making, it
just cannot go beyond itself. That which is neither
elme vlik a dntbrv, s nmagban keresi a
valsg bizonytkt ami egy teljesen lehetetlen,
s remnytelen feladat.
K: Uram, azt mondtad: semmi sem valdi, minden
viszonylagos, s szeretnk veled egyetrteni. De te
fenntartod, hogy ltezik igazsg, valsg, tkletes
tuds, ezrt megkrdezem: mi az, s honnan tudod?
s mi fogja azt mondatni velem: igen, Maharajnak
igaza volt?
M: Abba kapaszkodsz, hogy szksg van a
bizonytkra, tansgra, tekintlyre. Mg mindig azt
kpzeled, hogy az igazsgnak szksge van a
rmutatsra, s, hogy azt mondjk: nzd, itt van a
igazsg. Ez nem gy van. Az igazsg nem
erfeszts eredmnye, ami az t vgn vr. Itt s
most van, valjban az irnta val vgyakozsban,
s a keressben. Kzelebb van, mint az elme s a
test, kzelebb, mint az n vagyok rzs. Nem ltod,
mert nmagadtl tlsgosan tvol keresed, legbels
lteden kvl. Trgyiastottad az igazsgot, s
ragaszkodsz azon hagyomnyos bizonytkokhoz s
ellenrzsekhez, amelyek csak dolgok, s
gondolatok esetn alkalmazhatk.
K: Mindssze annyit rtek abbl, amit mondasz,
hogy az igazsg rajtam tl van, s n nem vagyok
felkszlt, hogy rla beszljek.
igazsg maga. Csak az igazat sszetveszted a
hamissal.
K: gy tnik, mintha azt mondand: Ne krj
bizonytkot az igazsgra. A valtlannal trdj
csupn.
M: Az igazsgot a hamis elklntsvel fedezheted
fel. Azt tudhatod, hogy mi nincs. Ami van az
lehetsz csupn. A tuds a tudottra vonatkozik.
Bizonyos mdon a tudatlansg megfelelje. Ha
nincs tudatlansg, hol van szksg tudsra?
nmagban sem tudatlansg, sem tuds nem
ltezik. Ezek csak elmellapotok, amelyek viszont a
lnyegben lland tudatossg mozgsainak a
jelensgei csupn.
K: Az igazsg az elme birodalmn bell, vagy azon
kvl van?
nem kifejezhet.
K: Ez az, amit llandan hallok kifejezhetetlen
(anirvachaniya). Ettl nem leszek okosabb.
elme a sajt maga gyrtotta kifejezsekkel operlhat
csupn, nem tud lphet tl nmagn. Azt, ami sem
342
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
sensory nor mental, and yet without which neither
sensory nor the mental can exist, cannot be
contained in them. Do understand that the mind has
its limits; to go beyond, you must consent to silence.
Q: Can we say that action is the proof of truth? It
may not be verbalised, but it may be demonstrated.
M: Neither action nor inaction. It is beyond both.
Q: Can a man ever say: 'Yes, this is true'? Or is he
limited to the denial of the false? In other words, is
truth pure negation? Or, does a moment come when
it becomes assertion?
M: Truth cannot be described, but it can be
experienced.
Q: Experience is subjective, it cannot be shared.
Your experiences leaves me where I am.
M: Truth can be experienced, but it is not mere
experience. I know it and I can convey it, but only if
you are open to it. To be open means to want
nothing else.
Q: I am full of desires and fears. Does it mean that I
am not eligible for truth?
M: Truth is not a reward for good behaviour, nor a
prize for passing some tests. It cannot be brought
about. It is the primary, the unborn, the ancient
source of all that is. You are eligible because you
are. You need not merit truth. It is your own. Just
stop running away by running after. Stand still, be
quiet.
Q: Sir, if you want the body to be still and the mind --
quiet, tell me how it is done. In self-awareness I see
the body and the mind moved by causes beyond my
control. Heredity and environment dominate me
absolutely. The mighty 'I am', the creator of the
universe, can be wiped out by a drug temporarily, or
a drop of poison -- permanently.
M: Again, you take yourself to be the body.
Q: Even if I dismiss this body of bones, flesh and
blood as not-me, still I remain with the subtle body
made up of thoughts and feelings, memories and
imaginations. If I dismiss these also as not-me, I still
remain with consciousness, which also is a kind of
body.
343
nem rzki, sem nem mentlis, de ami nlkl
mgsem ltezhet sem az rzki, sem a mentlis, azt
nem tartalmazhatja. rtsd meg, hogy az elmnek
meg vannak a korltai; a rajta val tllpshez el
kell fogadnod a csendet.
K: Azt mondhatjuk, hogy a tett az igazsg
bizonytka? Verbalizlni nem lehet, de
demonstrlni igen.
M: Sem a tett, sem a ttlensg. Mindkettt
meghaladja.
K: Kijelenthet-e valaha: Igen, ez igaz? Vagy
lehetsgnk a hamis tagadsra korltozdik
csupn a? Msszval, az igazsg tiszta tagads?
Vagy eljn egyszer a pillanat, amikor lltss vlik?
M: Az igazsg nem lerhat, hanem tapasztalhat
valami.
K: A tapasztalat szubjektv, nem lehet megosztani. A
te tapasztalataid rm nincsenek hatssal.
M: Az igazsg tapasztalhat, de nem puszta
tapasztalat. n ismerem, s t tudom adni, de csak
akkor, ha te nyitott vagy r. Nyitottnak lenni azt
jelenti, hogy semmi mst nem akarni.
K: Tele vagyok vgyakkal, s flelmekkel. Azt jelenti
ez, hogy nem vagyok alkalmas az igazsgra?
M: Az igazsg nem j viselkeds, s nem is
bizonyos teszteknek val megfelels jutalma. Nem
egy elidzhet valami. Ez az elsdleges, a meg
nem szletett, az si forrsa mindennek, ami van.
Alkalmas vagy, mert vagy. Nem kell az igazsgot
kirdemelned. Az a te sajtod. Csak fejezd be, hogy
azltal, hogy szaladsz utna, meneklsz elle.
Maradj nyugodt, lgy csendes.
K: Uram, ha azt kvnod, hogy a test nyugodt, s az
elme csendes maradjon, avass be, hogy kell azt
csinlni. n gy ltom, az n-tudatossgban a testet
s az elmt ellenrzsemen kvli okok mozgatjk.
Abszolt uralommal brnak felettem az rklds s
a krnyezet. Az univerzum hatalmas teremtje, az
n vagyok megsemmisthet, idlegesen
valamilyen droggal, maradandan egy csepp
mreggel.
M: jfent a testnek tartod nmagad.
K: Mg ha ezt a csont, hs s vr alkotta testet, mint
nem-nt elvetem is, mg mindig ott marad a
gondolatokbl s rzsekbl, emlkekbl s
kpzeletekbl ll finom test. Ha ezt is elvetem, mint
nem-nt, mg mindig ott marad a tudatossg, amely
szintn egyfle test.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
M: You are quite right, but you need not stop there.
Go beyond. Neither consciousness, nor the 'I am' at
the centre of it are you. Your true being is entirely
un-self-conscious, completely free from all self-
identification with whatever it may be, gross, subtle
or transcendental.
Q: I can imagine myself to be beyond. But what
proof have l? To be, I must be somebody.
M: It is the other way round. To be, you must be
nobody. To think yourself to be something, or
somebody, is death and hell.
Q: I have read that in ancient Egypt people were
admitted to some mysteries where, under the
influence of drugs or incantations, they would be
expelled from their bodies and could actually
experience standing outside and looking at their own
prostrate forms. This was intended to convince them
of the reality of the after-death existence and create
in them a deep concern with their ultimate destiny,
so profitable to the state and temple. The self-
identification with the person owning the body
remained.
M: The body is made of food, as the mind is made of
thoughts. See them as they are. Non-identification,
when natural and spontaneous, is liberation. You
need not know what you are. Enough to know what
you are not. What you are you will never know, for
every discovery reveals new dimensions to conquer.
The unknown has no limits.
Q: Does it imply ignorance for ever?
M: It means that ignorance never was. Truth is in the
discovery not in the discovered. And to discovery
there is no beginning and no end. Question the
limits, go beyond, set yourself tasks apparently
impossible -- this is the way.
75. In Peace and Silence you Grow
Questioner: The Indian tradition tells us that the
Guru is indispensable. What is he indispensable for?
A mother is indispensable for giving the child a body.
But the soul she does not give. Her role is limited.
How is it with the Guru? Is his role also limited, and
if so, to what? Or is he indispensable generally,
even absolutely?
Maharaj: The innermost light, shining peacefully and Maharaj: A legbels fny, amely csendesen s
timelessly in the heart, is the real Guru. All others idtlenl ragyog a szvben, a valdi Guru. Minden
344
M: Teljesen igazad van, de nem kell itt megllnod.
Lpj tovbb. Te nem vagy sem tudatossg, sem az
kzpontjban lv n vagyok. Valdi lted
teljessggel n-tudattalan, tkletesen mentes
brmi olyannal val minden nazonoststl, ami
durva, finom, vagy transzcendentlis.
K: El tudom kpzelni magamrl, hogy mindezt
meghaladom. De milyen bizonytkom van r?
Ahhoz, hogy legyek, lennem kell valakinek.
M: Fordtva. Ahhoz, hogy legyl, senkinek kell
lenned. Valaminek, vagy valakinek gondolni magad,
az hall s pokol.
K: Azt olvastam, hogy az si Egyiptomban bizonyos
misztriumok sorn drogok s igzetek hatsra az
emberek elhagytk a testket, s valsgos
kvlllknt tapasztaltk, s lttk sajt, fldn
fekv formikat. gy akartak meggyzdni a hall
utni let valsgrl, s ltrehozni egy mly
kapcsolatot vgs rendeltetskkel, amely nagy
hasznra volt az llamnak s a templomnak. A
szemlyt birtokl testtel val nazonosulsuk
megmaradt.
M: A test tpanyagokbl ll, mint ahogy az elme
gondolatokbl. Lsd ket annak, amik. A
termszetes s spontn nem-nazonosuls
megszabadulst jelent. Nem kell tudnod, hogy mi
vagy. Elg azt tudod, hogy mi nem vagy. Soha nem
fogod megtudni, hogy mi vagy, mert minden
felfedezs jabb meghdtott dimenzit tr fel. Az
ismeretlennek nincsenek hatrai.
K: Ez rks tudatlansgot jelent?
M: Azt jelenti, hogy sosem volt tudatlansg. Az
igazsg a felfedezsben van, nem a felfedezettben.
s a felfedezsnek nincs kezdete, s nincs vge.
Kutasd a hatrokat, lpj tl rajtuk, jellj ki magad
szmra ltszlag lehetetlen feladatokat ez az t.
75. Bkben s csendben nvekszel
Krdez: Az indiai hagyomny azt mondja, hogy a
Guru nlklzhetetlen. Mihez nlklzhetetlen? Az
anya nlklzhetetlen, hogy a gyermeknek testet
adjon. De a lelket nem adja. Szerepe korltozott.
Hogyan van ez a Guru esetben? Az szerepe is
korltozott, s ha igen, miben? Vagy ltalnos
rtelemben nlklzhetetlen, st, abszolt mdon?
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
merely show the way. ms pusztn az utat mutatja.

Q: I am not concerned with the inner Guru. Only with
the one that shows the way. There are people who
believe that without a Guru Yoga is inaccessible.
They are ever in search of the right Guru, changing
one for another. Of what value are such Gurus?
K: Nem vagyok kapcsolatban a bels Guruval. Csak
azzal, aki az utat mutatja. Vannak, akik azt hiszik,
hogy Guru nlkl a Yoga elrhetetlen. k folyvst a
megfelel Gurut keresik, egyiket a msikra cserlve.
Mi az ilyen Guruknak rtke?

M: They are temporary, time-bound Gurus. You find M: Ezek ideiglenes, id-korltozott Guruk.
them in every walk of life. You need them for Megtallod ket az let minden terletn. Azrt van
acquiring any knowledge or skill. szksged rjuk, hogy valamilyen tudst, vagy
kszsget megszerezz.

Q: A mother is only for a lifetime, she begins at birth K: Az anya is csak egy lethosszig az, a szletstl,
and ends at death. She is not for ever. a hallig. Nem rkk.

M: Similarly, the time-bound Guru is not for ever. He M: Hasonlkppen, az idkorltozott Guru sem
fulfils his purpose and yields his place to the next. It rkk az. Bevgzi rendeltetst, s tadja helyt a
is quite natural and there is no blame attached to it. kvetkeznek. Ez teljesen termszetes, s nem kell
hibztatni rte.

Q: For every kind of knowledge, or skill, do I need a K: A tuds, vagy kszsg minden fajtjhoz, ms
separate Guru? Gurura van szksgem?

M: There can be no rule in these matters, except M: Erre vonatkozan nincs szably, egyet kivve,
one 'the outer is transient, the innermost -- hogy a kls mland, a legbels lland, s
permanent and changeless', though ever new in vltozatlan, mbr megjelensben s
appearance and action. tevkenysgben mindig j.

Q: What is the relation between the inner and the K: Mi az sszefggs a bels s a kls Guruk
outer Gurus? kztt?

M: The outer represent the inner, the inner accepts M: A kls kpviseli a belst, a bels alveti magt
the outer -- for a time. a klsnek egy ideig.

Q: Whose is the effort? K: Ki az erfeszts?

M: The disciple's, of course. The outer Guru gives
the instructions, the inner sends the strength; the
alert application is the disciple's. Without will,
intelligence and energy on the part of the disciple
the outer Guru is helpless. The inner Guru bids his
chance. Obtuseness and wrong pursuits bring about
a crisis and the disciple wakes up to his own plight.
Wise is he who does not wait for a shock, which can
be quite rude.
M: A tantvny, termszetesen. A kls Guru adja
az instrukcikat, a bels kldi az ert, az
elvigyzatos alkalmazs a tantvny. A tantvny
akarata, intelligencija s energija nlkl, a kls
Guru tehetetlen. A bels Guru rendeli el vgzett.
Butasg s helytelen trekvsek vlsgba
torkollanak, s a tantvny rbred sajt llapotra.
Blcs, aki nem vr a sokkra, amely meglehetsen
durva tud lenni.

Q: Is it a threat? K: Ez fenyegets?

M: Not a threat, a warning. The inner Guru is not
committed to non-violence. He can be quite violent
at times, to the point of destroying the obtuse or
perverted personality. Suffering and death, as life
and happiness, are his tools of work. It is only in
duality that non-violence becomes the unifying law.
M: Nem fenyegets, figyelmeztets. A bels Guru
nem elktelezett az erszakmentessg irnt. Olykor
egszen erszakos is lehet, akr addig a pontig is
elmehet, hogy elpuszttja a korltolt vagy elferdlt
szemlyisget. Szenveds s hall, csakgy, mint
let s boldogsg, munkjnak eszkzei. Csak a
kettssg az, amelyben az erszakmentessg
egyest trvnny vlik.

Q: Has one to be afraid of his own self? K: Az embernek flnie kell a sajt njtl?

345
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
M: Not afraid, for the self means well. But it must be
taken seriously. It calls for attention and obedience;
when it is not listened to, it turns from persuasion to
compulsion, for while it can wait, it shall not be
denied. The difficulty lies not with the Guru, inner or
outer. The Guru is always available. It is the ripe
disciple that is lacking. When a person is not ready,
what can be done?
Q: Ready or willing?
M: Both. It comes to the same. In India we call it
adhikari. It means both capable and entitled.
Q: Can the outer Guru grant initiation (diksha)?
M: He can give all kinds of initiations, but the
initiation into Reality must come from within.
Q: Who gives the ultimate initiation?
M: It is self-given.
Q: I feel we are running in circles. After all, I know
one self only, the present, empirical self. The inner
or higher self is but an idea conceived to explain and
encourage. We talk of it as having independent
existence. It hasn't.
M: The outer self and the inner both are imagined.
The obsession of being an 'I' needs another
obsession with a 'super-l' to get cured, as one needs
another thorn to remove a thorn, or another poison
to neutralise a poison. All assertion calls for a denial,
but this is the first step only. The next is to go
beyond both.
Q: I do understand that the outer Guru is needed to
call my attention to myself and to the urgent need of
doing something about myself. I also understand
how helpless he is when it comes to any deep
change in me. But here you bring in the sadguru, the
inner Guru, beginningless, changeless, the root of
being, the standing promise, the certain goal. Is he a
concept or a reality?
M: He is the only reality. All else is shadow, cast by
the body mind (deha-buddhi) on the face of time. Of
course, even a shadow is related to reality, but by
itself it is not real.
Q: I am the only reality I know. The sadguru is there
as long as I think of him. What do I gain by shifting
reality to him?
346
M: Ne flj, mert az n jt akar. De komolyan kell t
venni. Figyelmet s tiszteletet kvetel; mikor nem
hallgatsz r, a meggyzst knyszerre cserli, amg
vrni tud, addig nem lesz elutast. A baj nem a
Guruval van, a belsvel, vagy a klsvel. A Guru
mindig rendelkezsre ll. Az rett tantvny az, aki
hinyzik. Amikor az ember nem ll kszen, mit lehet
tenni?
K: Nem ksz, vagy nem hajland?
M: Mindkett. Egyre megy. Indiban ezt gy hvjk,
adhikari. Ez alkalmassgot s jogosultsgot
egyarnt jelent.
K: Tud a kls Guru tud beavatsban (diksha)
rszesteni?
M: Mindenfle beavatst tud adni, de a Valsgba
val beavats bellrl kell, hogy jjjn.
K: Ki az, aki a vgs beavatst adja?
M: nmagad.
K: gy rzem, krben jrunk. Ugyanis n csak egy
nt ismerek, a jelenlegi, tapasztalati nt. A bels,
vagy magasabb n csak egy idea, ami a megrtst,
s a btortst szolglja. gy beszlnk rla, mintha
nll lte lenne. Nincs neki.
M: A kls s bels n egyarnt a kpzelet termke.
Az n ltezsnek knyszerkpzete egy msik
knyszerkpzetet tesz szksgess a gygyuls
rdekben, egy szuper n-nel, mint amikor egy
msik tskre van szksgnk a tske
eltvoltshoz, vagy egy msik mregre a mreg
semlegestshez. Minden llts tagadsrt kilt,
de ez csak az els lps. A kvetkez a mindkettn
val tllps.
K: Azt rtem, hogy a kls Gurunak kell
felbresztenie az nmagam irnti figyelmet, s
annak a srget ignyt, hogy csinljak valamit
nmagammal. Azt is rtem, hogy milyen tehetetlen
, amikor jn, hogy valamilyen mly vltozst
idzzen el bennem. De akkor jssz a sadguruval, a
bels Guruval, aki kezdet nlkli,
megvltoztathatatlan, a lt gykere, az lland
gret, a biztos cl. Fogalom , vagy valsg?
M: az egyetlen valsg. Minden ms a test elme
(deha-buddhi) ltal az id felletn vetett rnykp.
Termszetesen mg az rnykp is valsghoz
kapcsoldik, de nmagban nem vals.
K: n vagyok az egyetlen valsg, amit ismerek. A
sadguru addig ltezik, amg r gondolok. Mit nyerek
vele, ha a valsgnak tekintem t?
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
M: Your loss is your gain. When the shadow is seen
to be a shadow only, you stop following it. You turn
round and discover the sun which was there all the
time -- behind your back.
Q: Does the inner Guru also teach?
M: He grants the conviction that you are the eternal,
changeless, reality-consciousness-love, within and
beyond all appearances.
Q: A conviction is not enough. There must be
certainty.
M: Quite right. But in this case certainty takes the
shape of courage. Fear ceases absolutely. This
state of fearlessness is so unmistakably new, yet felt
deeply as one's own, that it cannot be denied. It is
like loving one's own child. Who can doubt it?
Q: We hear of progress in our spiritual endeavours.
What kind of progress do you have in mind?
M: When you go beyond progress, you will know
what is progress.
Q: What makes us progress?
M: Silence is the main factor. In peace and silence
you grow.
Q: The mind is so absolutely restless. For quieting it
what is the way?
M: Trust the teacher. Take my own case. My Guru
ordered me to attend to the sense 'I am' and to give
attention to nothing else. I just obeyed. I did not
follow any particular course of breathing, or
meditation, or study of scriptures. Whatever
happened, I would turn away my attention from it
and remain with the sense I am', it may look too
simple, even crude. My only reason for doing it was
that my Guru told me so. Yet it worked. Obedience
is a powerful solvent of all desires and fears.
Just turn away from all that occupies the mind; do
whatever work you have to complete, but avoid new
obligations; keep empty, keep available, resist not
what comes uninvited.
In the end you reach a state of non-grasping, of
joyful non-attachment, of inner ease and freedom
indescribable, yet wonderfully real.
347
M: A vesztesgedet nyered. Amikor az rnykpet
rnykpnek ltod csupn, abbahagyod a kvetst.
Fordulj htra, s fedezd fel a napot, amely egsz id
alatt ott volt a htad mgtt.
K: A bels Guru szintn tant?
M: rszest abban a meggyzdsben, hogy te az
rk, megvltozhatatlan, valsg-tudatossg-
szeretet vagy, minden megjelensen bell, s tl.
K: A meggyzds nem elegend. Bizonyossg
kell.
M: Nagyon helyes. De ez esetben a bizonyossg a
btorsg alakjt lti fel. A flelem abszolt
megsznik. A flelemmentessgnek ez az llapota
olyan nyilvnvalan j, s mgis mlysgesen a
sajt tulajdonodnak rzed, hogy nem tagadhatod
meg. Olyan, mint mikor az ember a sajt gyermekt
szereti. Ki ktelkedhetne benne?
K: Hallottunk a spiritulis trekvseink tern trtn
elrehaladsunkrl. Milyen haladsra gondolsz?
M: Amikor tlmsz a haladson, tudni fogod, hogy
mi a halads.
K: Mi ksztet bennnket a haladsra?
M: A csend a f tnyez. Bkben s csendben
nvekszel.
K: Az elme abszolt nyugtalan. Mi a mdja az
lecsillaptsnak?
M: Bzz a tantban. Vegyk az n pldmat.
Nekem az n Gurum utastsba adta, hogy figyeljem
az n vagyok rzst, s ne figyeljek semmi msra.
n csak szt fogadtam. Nem folytattam semmilyen
lgz gyakorlatot, vagy meditcit, nem
tanulmnyoztam szent knyveket. Az, hogy brmi
trtnjk is, fordtsam el rla a figyelmemet, s
maradjak az n vagyok rzsben, tl
egyszernek, st kezdetlegesnek tnhet. Egyetlen
okom a megttelre az volt, hogy Gurum ezt mondta
nekem. Mgis mkdtt. Az engedelmessg
erteljes oldszere minden vgynak s flelemnek.
Csak fordulj el mindentl, ami foglalkoztatja az
elmt; brmi legyen a munkd, vgezd el
hinytalanul, de kerld az j ktelezettsgeket;
maradj res, llj kszen, ne llj ellene annak, ami
hvatlanul jn.
Vgl elrsz egy olyan llapotot, amelyre a nem
kapaszkods, az rmteljes nem ktds, a bels
knnyedsg, s a lerhatatlan szabadsg jellemz,
amely mgis csodlatos mdon valsgos.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: When a truth-seeker earnestly practices his
Yogas, does his inner Guru guide and help him or
does he leave him to his own resources, just waiting
for the outcome?
M: All happens by itself. Neither the seeker, nor the
Guru do anything. Things happen as they happen;
blame or praise are apportioned later, after the
sense of doership appearing.
Q: How strange. Surely the doer comes before the
deed.
M: It is the other way round; the deed is a fact, the
doer a mere concept. Your very language shows
that while the deed is certain, the doer is dubious;
shifting responsibility is a game peculiarly human.
Considering the endless list of factors required for
anything to happen, one can only admit that
everything is responsible for everything, however
remote. Doership is a myth born from the illusion of
'me' and 'the mine'.
Q: How powerful the illusion?
M: No doubt, because based on reality.
Q: What is real in it?
M: Find out, by discerning and rejecting all that is
unreal.
Q: I have not understood well the role of the inner
self in spiritual endeavour. Who makes the effort? Is
it the outer self, or the inner?
M: You have invented words like effort, inner, outer,
self, etc. and seek to impose them on reality. Things
just happen to be as they are, but we want to build
them into a pattern, laid down by the structure of our
language. So strong is this habit, that we tend to
deny reality to what cannot be verbalised. We just
refuse to see that words are mere symbols, related
by convention and habit to repeated experiences.
Q: What is the value of spiritual books?
M: They help in dispelling ignorance. They are
useful in the beginning, but become a hindrance in
the end. One must know when to discard them.
Q: What is the link between atma and sattva,
between the self and the universal harmony?
M: As between the sun and its rays. Harmony and
348
K: Amikor az igazsg keresje komolyan gyakorolja
Yogjt, bels Guruja kalauzolja, s segti t, vagy
pedig rhagyja sajt eszkzeire, az eredmnyt vrva
csupn?
M: Minden nmagtl trtnik. Sem a keres, sem a
Guru nem csinl semmit. A dolgok trtnnek, ahogy
trtnnek; szemrehnys, vagy dicsret ksbb
kerlnek megosztsra, a cselekvsg rzse
megjelense utn.
K: Milyen klns. A cselekv meg kellene, hogy
elzze a cselekvst.
M: Ez nem gy van; a cselekvs egy tny, a
cselekv fogalom csupn. A kifejezsmdod is
mutatja, hogy mg a cselekvs bizonyossg, a
cselekv bizonytalan; a felelssg ttolsa egy
klns emberi jtk. Tekintve, hogy mindenfle
trtns a tnyezk vgtelen sort kvnja meg, az
ember csak annyit fogadhat el, hogy minden felels
mindenrt, brmilyen tvol is legyenek. A
cselekvsg az n s az enym illzija szlte
koholmny.
K: Milyen hatalmas az illzi?
M: Ktsgtelenl az, mert a valsgon alapszik.
K: Mi a valsgos benne?
M: Fedezd fel, minden olyan felismersvel s
elutastsval, ami nem valdi.
K: Nem teljesen rtem a bels n spiritulis
trekvsben jtszott szerept. Ki teszi az
erfesztst? A kls n, vagy a bels?
M: Kieszelsz olyan szavakat, mint az erfeszts,
bels, kls, n stb., s megksrled rhzni ket a
valsgra. A dolgok csupn vannak, ahogy vannak,
de mi a nyelvnk szerkezete ltal meghatrozott
mintkba akarjuk ket knyszerteni. Ez a szoks
annyira ers, hogy hajlamosak vagyunk r, hogy
megtagadjuk a realitst attl, ami nem nthet
szavakba. Vonakodunk attl, hogy szrevegyk, a
szavak puszta szimblumok, amelyeket a
megllapods s szoks alapjn az ismtld
lmnyekhez kapcsolunk.
K: Mi a spiritulis knyvek haszna?
M: Segtenek a tudatlansg eloszlatsban.
Kezdetben hasznosak, de a vgn akadlly vlnak.
Az ember meg kell, hogy tudjon szabadulni tlk.
K: Mi a kapcsolat az atma, s a sattva, az n, s az
univerzlis harmnia kztt?
M: Mint a nap s annak sugarai kztt. Harmnia s
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
beauty, understanding and affection are all
expressions of reality. It is reality in action, the
impact of the spirit on matter. Tamas obscures, rajas
distorts, sattva harmonises. With the maturing of the
sattva all desires and fears come to an end. The real
being is reflected in the mind undistorted. Matter is
redeemed, spirit -- revealed. The two are seen as
one. They were always one, but the imperfect mind
saw them as two. Perfection of the mind is the
human task, for matter and spirit meet in the mind.
szpsg, megrts s szeretet, mind a valsgnak a
megnyilvnulsai. Cselekv valsg ez, a szellem
hatsa az anyagra. A tamas elsttt, a rajas eltorzt,
a sattva harmonizl. A sattva rett vlsval
minden vgy s flelem vget r. Az elmben
tkrzd valdi lt torztatlan. Az anyag
megvltdik, a szellem kijelentsre kerl. A kett
egynek ltszdik. Mindig is egyek voltak, de a
tkletlen elme kettnek ltta ket. Az elme
tkletestse emberi feladat, mivel anyag s
szellem az elmben tallkoznak.

Q: I feel like a man before a door. I know the door is K: gy rzem magam, mintha egy ajt eltt llnk.
open but it is guarded by the dogs of desire and Tudom, hogy az ajt nyitva ll, de a vgy s flelem
fear. What am I to do? kutyi ltal rztten. Mi a teendm?

M: Obey the teacher and brave the dogs. Behave as
if they were not there. Again, obedience is the
golden rule. Freedom is won by obedience. To
escape from prison one must unquestioningly obey
instructions sent by those who work for one's
release.
M: Fogadj szt a tantnak, s dacolj a kutykkal.
Viselkedj gy, mintha nem lennnek ott. Ismtlem,
az aranyszably a szfogads. A szabadsgot a
szfogads rvn nyerhet el. Brtnbl val
szabadulshoz, az embernek habozs nlkl
engedelmeskednie kell azon utastsoknak,
amelyeket attl kap, aki a megszabadulsrt
dolgozik.

Q: The words of the Guru, when merely heard, have K: A Guru szavainak, ha hallgatod csupn, kicsi az
little power. One must have faith to obey them. What ereje. Az emberben hitnek kell lennie, hogy
creates such faith? hallgasson rjuk. Mi hoz ltre ilyen hitet?

M: When the time comes, faith comes. Everything M: Mikor eljn az id, megjn a bizalom. Minden
comes in time. The Guru is always ready to share, idben megrkezik. A Guru mindig ksz az adsra,
but there are no takers. de nincsenek fogadk.

Q: Yes, Sri Ramana Maharshi used to say: Gurus K: Igen, Sri Ramana Maharshi szokta volt mondani:
there are many, but where are the disciples? sok a Guruk, de hol vannak a tantvnyok?

M: Well, in the course of time everything happens. M: Nos, az idvel minden megtrtnik. Mind fel fog
All will come through, not a single soul (jiva) shall be bredni, egyetlen llek (jiva) sem fog elveszni.
lost.

Q: I am very much afraid of taking intellectual K: Nagyon fle, hogy a megvalsulst intellektulis
understanding for realisation. I may talk of truth mdon val megrtstl. Beszlhetek az
without knowing it, and may know it without a single igazsgrl, anlkl, hogy ismernm, s ismerhetem
word said. azt, anlkl, hogy egyetlen szt is ejtenk.

I understand these conversations are going to be Tudom, hogy e beszlgetsek kiadsra kerlnek.
published. What will be their effect on the reader? Hogyan fognak hatni az olvaskra?

M: In the attentive and thoughtful reader they will M: A figyelmes s meggondolt olvasban meg
ripen and bring out flowers and fruits. Words based fognak rni, majd virgot, s gymlcsket hoznak.
on truth, if fully tested, have their own power. Az igazsgon alapul szavak, teljes prbnak
alvetve, sajt ervel brnak.

76. To Know that You do not Know, is 76. Tudni, hogy nem tudsz, az igazi
True Knowledge tuds
Maharaj: There is the body. Inside the body appears Maharaj: Itt a test. A testen bell ltszik megjelenni

349
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
to be an observer and outside -- a world under
observation. The observer and his observation as
well as the world observed all appear and disappear
together. Beyond it all, there is void. This void is one
for all.
Questioner: What you say appears simple, but not
everyone would say it. It is you, and you alone, who
talks of the three and the void beyond. I see the
world only, which includes all.
M: Even the 'I am'?
Q: Even the 'I am'. The 'I am' is there because the
world is there.
M: And the world is there because the 'I am' is there. M: s azrt van a vilg, mert az n vagyok van.
Q: Yes, it goes both ways. I cannot separate the
two, nor go beyond, I cannot say something is,
unless I experience it, as I cannot say something is
not, because I do not experience it. What is it that
you experience that makes you speak with such
assurance?
M: I know myself as I am -- timeless, spaceless,
causeless. You happen not to know, being
engrossed as you are in other things.
Q: Why am I so engrossed?
M: Because you are interested.
Q: What makes me interested?
M: Fear of pain, desire for pleasure. Pleasant is the
ending of pain and painful the end of pleasure. They
just rotate in endless succession. Investigate the
vicious circle till you find yourself beyond it.
Q: Don't I need your grace to take me beyond?
M: The grace of your Inner Reality is timelessly with
you. Your very asking for grace is a sign of it. Do not
worry about my grace, but do what you are told. The
doing is the proof of earnestness, not the expecting
of grace.
Q: What am I to be earnest about?
M: Assiduously investigate everything that crosses
your field of attention. With practice the field will
broaden and investigation deepen, until they
become spontaneous and limitless.
350
a megfigyel, s kvl a megfigyelt vilg. A
megfigyel, a megfigyels, valamint a megfigyelt
vilg egytt jelennek meg, s tnnek el. Mindezeken
tl ressg van. Ez az ressg minden szmra
egy.
Krdez: Amit mondasz, az egyszernek tnik, de
nem mindenki ezt mondan. Te, s egyedl te vagy
az, aki a hromrl beszlsz, s a rajtuk tl lv
ressgrl. n csak a vilgot ltom, amely mindent
magban foglal.
M: Mg az n vagyok-ot is?
K: Mg az n vagyokot is. Azrt van az n vagyok,
mert a vilg van.
K: Igen, mindkett vltozat rvnyes. Nem tudom a
kettt sztvlasztani, sem meghaladni, nem tudom
azt mondani valamirl, hogy van, csak akkor, ha
tapasztalom, s nem tudom azt mondani valamirl,
hogy nincs, mert nem tapasztalom. Milyen
tapasztalod mondatja ezt veled, ekkora
bizonyossggal?
M: n gy ismerem magam, mint ami idtlen,
hatrtalan, oktalan. Te nem ismered magad, mert
ms dolgok ktnek le.
K: Mirt ktnek le ennyire?
M: Mert rdekldst tanstasz irntuk.
K: Mi miatt vagyok rdekld?
M: A fjdalomtl val flelem, az rm irnti vgy
miatt. Az rm a fjdalom befejezdse, s a
fjdalom az rm vge. Ezek csak vltogatjk
egymst, vgtelen egymsutnban. Tanulmnyozd
az rdgi krt, amg tl nem lpsz rajta.
K: Nincs szksg a kegyelmedre, hogy a
tllpsemben segtsen?
M: Bels Valsgod kegyelme idtlen mdon veled
van. Valjban a kegyelem irnti krsed jele
ennek. Ne a kegyelmem miatt aggdj, csak tedd,
amit mondtam. A komolysgnak a cselekvs a
bizonytka, nem a kegyelem bekvetkezsre val
vrakozs.
K: Mivel kapcsolatban kell komolynak lennem?
M: Kitartan tanulmnyozz minden olyat, ami
figyelmed terbe kerl. Gyakorls rvn a mez
tgulni, s a kutats mlylni fog, mg azok
spontnn s korltlann nem vlnak.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: Are you not making realisation the result of
practice? Practice operates within the limitations of
physical existence. How can it give birth to the
unlimited?
M: Of course, there can be no causal connection
between practice and wisdom. But the obstacles to
wisdom are deeply affected by practice.
Q: What are the obstacles?
M: Wrong ideas and desires leading to wrong
actions, causing dissipation and weakness of mind
and body. The discovery and abandonment of the
false remove what prevents the real entering the
mind.
Q: I can distinguish two states of mind: 'I am' and
'the world is; they arise and subside together.
People say: 'I am, because the world is'. You seem
to say: 'The world is, because I am'. Which is true?
M: Neither. The two are one and the same state, in
space and time. Beyond, there is the timeless.
Q: What is the connection between time and the
timeless?
M: The timeless knows the time, the time does not
know the timeless. All consciousness is in time and
to it the timeless appears unconscious. Yet, it is
what makes consciousness possible. Light shines in
darkness. In light darkness is not visible. Or, you can
put it the other way -- in the endless ocean of light,
clouds of consciousness appear -- dark and limited,
perceivable by contrast. These are mere attempts to
express in words something very simple, yet
altogether inexpressible.
Q: Words should serve as a bridge to cross over.
M: Word refers to a state of mind, not to reality. The
river, the two banks, the bridge across -- these are
all in the mind. Words alone cannot take you beyond
the mind. There must be the immense longing for
truth, or absolute faith in the Guru. Believe me, there
is no goal, nor a way to reach it. You are the way
and the goal, there is nothing else to reach except
yourself. All you need is to understand and
understanding is the flowering of the mind. The tree
is perennial, but the flowering and the fruit bearing
come in season. The seasons change, but not the
tree. You are the tree. You have grown numberless
branches and leaves in the past and you may grow
them also in the future -- yet you remain. Not what
351
K: Nem a gyakorls eredmnyeknt viszed vgbe a
megvalsulst? A gyakorlsnak csak a fizikai
ltezs hatrain bell van hatsa. Hogyan tehetn
lehetv a hatrtalan szletst?
M: Termszetesen, a gyakorls s a blcsessg
kztt nem ltezhet ok okozati kapcsolat. De a
gyakorls mly hatssal lehet a blcsessg
akadlyaira.
K: Mik ezek az akadlyok?
M: A rossz cselekedetekhez vezet rossz idek s
vgyak, amelyek az elme s test sztforgcsolst
s gyengesgt okozzk. A hamis leleplezse, s
feladsa tvoltja el azt, ami tjt llja, hogy a valdi
belpjen az elmbe.
K: Kt llapott tudom megklnbztetni az
elmnek: n vagyok, s a vilg van; ezek egytt
keletkeznek s hagynak albb. Az emberek azt
mondjk: n vagyok, mert a vilg van. gy tnik, te
azt mondod: a vilg van, mert n vagyok. Melyik
igaz?
M: Egyik sem. A kett egy, s ugyanazon llapot,
trben s idben. Ezen tl az idtlen van.
K: Mi a kapcsolat az id s az idtlen kztt?
M: Az idtlen ismeri az idt, az id nem ismeri az
idtlent. Minden tudatossg idbeli, s szmra az
idtlen tudattalannak mutatkozik. Igen, ez az, ami a
tudatossgot lehetv teszi. A fny a sttsgben
ragyog. A fnyben a sttsg nem lthat. Vagy
mskppen kifejezve a fny vgtelen cenjban
megjelen tudatossg felhi sttek s
korltozottak, az ellenttek miatt szlelhetk. Ezek
puszta prblkozsok, hogy a szavakkal fejezznk
ki valami olyat, ami nagyon egyszer, mgis
teljessggel kifejezhetetlen.
K: A szavaknak sszekt hdknt kellene
szolglniuk.
M: A szavak az elme llapotra vonatkoznak, nem a
valsgra. A foly, a kt part, a kzttk vel hd
ezek mind az elmben vannak. A szavak
nmagukban nem tudnak tged az elmn tlvinni.
Szksg van az igazsg irnti mrhetetlen
svrgsra, vagy a Guru irnti abszolt hitre. Higgy
nekem, nem ltezik cl, sem t, amelyen azt
elrhetnd. Te vagy az t s a cl, semmi ms
nincs, amit el kell elrned, kivve nmagadat. Csak
megrtsre van szksged, s a megrts az elme
virgba borulsa. A fa lland, de a megfelel
vszakban virgzik, s gymlcst terem. Az
vszakok vltoznak, de a fa nem. Te vagy a fa.
Megszmllhatatlan gat, s levelet nvesztettl a
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
was, or shall be, must you know, but what is. Yours
is the desire that creates the universe. Know the
world as your own creation and be free.
Q: You say the world is the child of love. When I
know the horrors the world is full of, the wars, the
concentration camps, the inhuman exploitations,
how can I own it as my own creation? However
limited I am, I could not have created so cruel a
world.
M: Find to whom this cruel world appears and you
will know why it appears so cruel. Your questions
are perfectly legitimate, but just cannot be answered
unless you know whose is the world. To find out the
meaning of a thing you must ask its maker. I am
telling you: You are the maker of the world in which
you live -- you alone can change it, or unmake it.
Q: How can you say I have made the world? I hardly K: Hogy mondhatsz olyat, hogy n hoztam ltre a
know it. vilgot? Alig tudok rla valamit.
M: There is nothing in the world that you cannot
know, when you know yourself. Thinking yourself to
be the body you know the world as a collection of
material things. When you know yourself as a centre
of consciousness, the world appears as the ocean of
the mind. When you know yourself as you are in
reality, you know the world as yourself.
Q: It all sounds very beautiful, but does not answer
my question. Why is there so much suffering in the
world?
M: If you stand aloof as observer only, you will not
suffer. You will see the world as a show, a most
entertaining show indeed.
Q: Oh, no. This lila theory I shall not have. The
suffering is too acute and all-pervading. What a
perversion to be entertained by a spectacle of
suffering. What a cruel God are you offering me.
M: The cause of suffering is in the identification of
the perceiver with the perceived. Out of it desire is
born and with desire blind action, unmindful of
results. Look round and you will see -- suffering is a
man-made thing.
Q: Were a man to create his own sorrow only, I
would agree with you. But in his folly he makes
352
mltban, s nveszthetsz a jvben is mgis te
maradsz. Nem azt kell ismerned, ami volt, vagy lesz,
hanem ami van. A te vgyad az, ami ltrehozza az
univerzumot. Ismerd a vilgot sajt
teremtmnyedknt, s lgy szabad.
K: Azt mondod, a vilg a szeretet gyermeke. Amikor
tudok a borzalmakrl, amikkel a vilg tele van, a
hborkrl, a koncentrcis tborokrl, az
embertelen kizskmnyolsrl, hogyan tarthatnm
azt az n sajt teremtmnyemnek? Brmennyire is
vagyok korltozott, nem tudnk ilyen kegyetlen
vilgot teremteni.
M: Fedezd fel, hogy ez a kegyetlen vilg kinek a
szmra jelenik meg, s tudni fogod, hogy mirt
jelenik meg olyan kegyetlennek. Krdseid teljesen
indokoltak, csakhogy nem megvlaszolhatk,
kivve, ha tudod, hogy ki a vilg. Valamely dolog
rtelmnek a megismershez meg kell, hogy
krdezd annak ksztjt. n azt mondom neked: te
vagy a ltrehozja a vilgnak, amelyben lsz
egyedl te tudod azt megvltoztatni, vagy
elveszejteni.
M: Semmi olyan nincs a vilgban, amit ne ismernl,
ha ismered nmagad. Mert nmagadat testnek
gondolod, azrt ismered a vilgot anyagi dolgok
sszessgnek. Amikor nmagadat a tudatossg
kzpontjnak tudod, a vilg gy jelenik meg, mint az
elme cenja. Amikor akknt ismered magad, ami
valjban vagy, akkor a vilgot nmagadknt
ismered.
K: Ez nagyon szpen hangzik, de nem ad vlaszt a
krdsemre. Mirt van olyan sok szenveds a
vilgon?
M: Ha megmaradsz puszta megfigyelknt, nem
fogsz szenvedni. gy fogod ltni a vilgot, mint egy
ltvnyossgot, st, egy nagyon szrakoztat
ltvnyossgot.
K: h, nem. Ezt a lila elmletet nem fogadom el. A
szenveds tlsgosan intenzv, s mindent betlt.
Micsoda perverzits gy szrakozni a szenvedsen,
mint egy ltvnyossgon. Micsoda kegyetlen Istent
ajnlasz nekem.
M: A szenveds oka az szlelnek az szlelttel val
azonosulsban van. Ebbl szletik a vgy, s a
vggyal egytt a vak, az eredmnyekrl
megfeledkez cselekvs. Nzz krl, s ltni fogod
a szenveds egy ember alkotta dolog.
K: Ha az ember csupn sajt magnak teremtene
szomorsgot, egyetrtenk veled. De
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
others suffer. A dreamer has his own private
nightmare and none suffers but himself. But what
kind of dream is it that plays havoc in the lives of
others?
M: Descriptions are many and contradictory. Reality
is simple -- all is one, harmony is the eternal law,
none compels to suffer. It is only when you try to
describe and explain, that the words fail you.
Q: I remember Gandhiji telling me once that the Self
is not bound by the law of non-violence (ahimsa).
The Self has the freedom to impose suffering on its
expressions in order to set them right.
M: On the level of duality it may be so, but in reality
there is only the source, dark in itself, making
everything shine. Unperceived, it causes perception.
Unfelt, it causes feeling. Unthinkable, it causes
thought. Non-being, it gives birth to being. It is the
immovable background of motion. Once you are
there you are at home everywhere.
Q: If I am that, then what causes me to be born?
M: The memory of the past unfulfilled desires traps
energy, which manifests itself as a person. When its
charge gets exhausted, the person dies. Unfulfilled
desires are carried over into the next birth. Self-
identification with the body creates ever fresh
desires and there is no end to them, unless this
mechanism of bondage is clearly seen. It is clarity
that is liberating, for you cannot abandon desire,
unless its causes and effects are clearly seen. I do
not say that the same person is reborn. It dies and
dies for good. But its memories remain and their
desires and fears. They supply the energy for a new
person. The real takes no part in it, but makes it
possible by giving it, the light.
Q: My difficulty is this. As I can see, every
experience is its own reality. It is there --
experienced. The moment I question it and ask to
whom it happens, who is the observer and so on,
the experience is over and all I can investigate is
only the memory of it. I just cannot investigate the
living moment -- the now. My awareness is of the
past, not of the present. When I am aware, I do not
really live in the now, but only in the past. Can there
really be an awareness of the present?
M: What you are describing is not awareness at all,
353
ostobasgban msoknak okoz szenvedst. Az
lmod rmlma kizrlag az v, s senki ms
nem szenved, csak . De mifle lom az, amely
pusztt szerepet jtszik msok letben?
M: A lers sok fle, s ellentmondsos. A valsg
egyszer minden egy, a harmnia az rk trvny,
semmi nem knyszert szenvedsre. Csak amikor
megksrled, hogy lerd, s elmagyarzd, cserben
hagynak a szavak.
K: Emlkszem, egyszer azt mondta nekem Gandhiji,
hogy az nt nem kti az erszakmentessg
(ahimsa) trvnye. Az nnek szabadsgban ll,
hogy szenvedst rakjon megnyilvnulsaira, azrt,
hogy rendbe hozza ket.
M: Lehet, hogy ez gy van, a kettssg szintjn.
valjban csak a forrs van, nmagban stt,
minden, amit ltrehoz, ragyog. szlelhetetlen, ami
lehetv teszi az szlelst. Elgondolhatatlan, ami
lehetv teszi a gondolkodst. Nem-ltez, ami
letet ad a lteznek. Mozdthatatlan alapja a
mozgsnak. Amint vagy, otthon vagy mindentt.
K: Ha n az vagyok, akkor mi ksztet r, hogy
megszlessek?
M: A mlt beteljesletlen vgyainak emlke
csapdba ejtett energia, amely nmagt
szemlyknt nyilvntja meg. Amikor tltse kimerl,
a szemly meghal. A beteljesletlen vgyak tovbb
kerlnek a kvetkez szletsbe. A testtel val
nazonosuls folyvst friss vgyakat hoz ltre, s
ennek addig nincs vge, amg a ktttsg ezen
mechanizmusa vilgosan megrtsre nem kerl. A
vilgossg fog megszabadtani, mert addig nem
tudsz lemondani a vgyrl, amg annak okait, s
hatsait vilgosan meg nem rted. Nem azt
mondom, hogy ugyanaz a szemly szletik jj. Az
meghal, egyszer s mindenkorra meghal. De
emlkei, vgyai s flelmei megmaradnak. Azok
ltjk el energival az j szemlyt. A valsgnak
nincs rsze benne, de lehetv teszi azt, azltal,
hogy megajndkozza a fnnyel.
K: Az n gondom a kvetkez. Ahogy n ltom,
minden tapasztalsnak megvan a sajt valsga. Itt
van tapasztalhat. Abban a pillanatban, ahogy azt
ktsgbe vonom, s megkrdezem, hogy kinek a
szmra trtnik, ki a megfigyel, stb., a tapasztals
vget r, s mr csak annyit tehetek, hogy az
emlkeit tanulmnyozom. ppen csak az l
pillanatot nem tudom tanulmnyozni a mostot. A
tudomsom a mlt, nem a jelen. Amikor ber
vagyok, valjban nem a mostban lek, hanem csak
a mltban. Ltezhet valjban tudatossg a
jelenben?
M: Amirl beszlsz, az egyltaln nem tudatossg,
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
but only thinking about the experience. True
awareness (samvid) is a state of pure witnessing,
without the least attempt to do anything about the
event witnessed. Your thoughts and feelings, words
and actions may also be a part of the event; you
watch all unconcerned in the full light of clarity and
understanding. You understand precisely what is
going on, because it does not affect you. It may
seem to be an attitude of cold aloofness, but it is not
really so. Once you are in it, you will find that you
love what you see, whatever may be its nature. This
choiceless love is the touchstone of awareness. If it
is not there, you are merely interested -- for some
personal reasons.
Q: As long as there are pain and pleasure, one is
bound to be interested.
M: And as long as one is conscious, there will be
pain and pleasure. You cannot fight pain and
pleasure on the level of consciousness. To go
beyond them you must go beyond consciousness,
which is possible only when you look at
consciousness as something that happens to you
and not in you, as something external, alien,
superimposed. Then, suddenly you are free of
consciousness, really alone, with nothing to intrude.
And that is your true state. Consciousness is an
itching rash that makes you scratch. Of course, you
cannot step out of consciousness for the very idea of
stepping out is in consciousness. But if you learn to
look at your consciousness as a sort of fever,
personal and private, in which you are enclosed like
a chick in its shell, out of this very attitude will come
the crisis which will break the shell.
Q: Buddha said that life is suffering.
M: He must have meant that all consciousness is
painful, which is obvious.
Q: And does death offer delivery?
M: One who believes himself as having been born is M: Aki nmagt megszletettnek hiszi, nagyon fl a
very much afraid of death. On the other hand, to him halltl. Msfell, aki valban ismeri nmagt,
who knows himself truly, death is a happy event. annak szmra a hall egy boldog esemny.
Q: The Hindu tradition says that suffering is brought
by destiny and destiny is merited. Look at the
immense calamities, natural or man-made, floods
and earthquakes, wars and revolutions. Can we
dare to think that each suffers for his own sins, of
which he can have no idea? The billions who suffer,
are they all criminals justly punished?
354
hanem csak a tapasztalatrl val gondolkods. Az
igazi tudatossg (samvid) a tiszta tansg llapota,
a legcseklyebb ksrlete nlkl brmilyen
cselekvsnek, mg a tansgnak is. Lehet, hogy
gondolataid, rzseid, szavaid s cselekedeteid is
rszei az esemnynek; szemllj mindent prtatlanul,
a vilgossg s megrts teljes fnyben. Pontosan
rtsd meg azt, ami folyik, mivel az nincs rd
hatssal. Ez hvs tartzkodsnak tnhet, de
valjban nem az. Amint benne vagy, gy fogod
tallni, hogy szereted, amit ltsz, brmi legyen
annak a termszete. Ez a vlogats nlkli szeretet
a prbakve a tudatossgnak. Ha ez nincs meg,
akkor pusztn csak rdekelt vagy valamilyen
szemlyes eredmnyben.
K: Amg van fjdalom s rm, addig az ember
ktdik az rdekeihez.
M: s amg az ember tudatos, addig fjdalom s
rm is lesz. A fjdalommal s rmmel a
tudatossg szintjn nem tudsz megkzdeni. A rajtuk
val tllpshez tl kell lpned a tudatossgon, ami
csak akkor lehetsges, ha a tudatossgot valami
olyannak ltod, ami szmodra, s nem benned,
valami olyanknt trtnik, ami kls, idegen, rd
vettett. Akkor, hirtelen megszabadulsz a
tudatossgtl, valban egyedl maradsz, minden
rd erszakolt dologtl mentesen. s ez a te valdi
llapotod. A tudatossg egy viszket kits, amely
vakarzsra ksztet. Termszetesen, nem tudsz
kilpni a tudatossgbl, mert a kilps ideja
valjban a tudatossgban van. De ha megtanulod,
hogy gy nzz a tudatossgodra, mint egyfajta
lzra, amely szemlyes, s egyni, amelybe bele
vagy zrva, mint csirke a tojshjba, valjban
ekkor kerlsz ezen az attitdn kvlre, s ekkor fog
eljnni a vlsg, ami szt fogja trni a tojshjat.
K: Buddha azt mondta, az let szenveds.
M: gy kellett, hogy rtse, hogy minden tudatossg
fjdalmas, ami szembetn.
K: s a hall knlja a megszabadulst?
K: A hindu hagyomny azt mondja, hogy a sors
okozza a szenvedst, a sors pedig megrdemelt.
Tekints a tmrdek csapsra, legyen az termszeti,
vagy ember ltal okozott, az rvizekre, s
fldrengsekre, hborkra s forradalmakra.
Merszelhetjk-e azt gondolni, hogy ki-ki az sajt
bnei miatt szenved, amelyekrl neki sejtse sincs?
A szenved billik mind bnsk, akik igazsgosan
bnhdnek?
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
M: Must one suffer only for one's own sins? Are we
really separate? In this vast ocean of life we suffer
for the sins of others, and make others suffer for our
sins. Of course, the law of balance rules Supreme
and accounts are squared in the end. But while life
lasts, we affect each other deeply.
Q: Yes, as the poet says: 'No man is an island'.
M: At the back of every experience is the Self and its M: Minden tapasztalat htterben az n van, s
interest in the experience. Call it desire, call it love -- annak a tapasztalat irnti rdekldse. Nevezheted
words do not matter.
Q: Can I desire suffering? Can I deliberately ask for
pain? Am I not like a man who made for himself a
downy bed hoping for a good night of sleep and then
he is visited by a nightmare and he tosses and
screams in his dream? Surely, it is not the love that
produces nightmares.
M: All suffering is caused by selfish isolation, by
insularity and greed. When the cause of suffering is
seen and removed, suffering ceases.
Q: I may remove my causes of sorrow, but others
will be left to suffer.
M: To understand suffering, you must go beyond
pain and pleasure. Your own desires and fears
prevent you from understanding and thereby helping
others. In reality there are no others, and by helping
yourself you help everybody else. If you are serious
about the sufferings of mankind, you must perfect
the only means of help you have -- Yourself.
Q: You keep on saying that I am the creator,
preserver and destroyer of this world, omnipresent,
omniscient, omnipotent. When I ponder over what
you say, I ask myself: 'How is it that there is so much
evil in my world'.
M: There is no evil, there is no suffering; the joy of
living is paramount. Look, how everything clings to
life, how dear the existence is.
Q: On the screen of my mind images follow each
other in endless succession. There is nothing
permanent about me.
M: Have a better look at yourself. The screen is
there -- it does not change. The light shines steadily.
Only the film in between keeps moving and causes
pictures to appear. You may call the film -- destiny
355
M: Muszj, hogy az ember csak sajt bne miatt
szenvedjen? Valjban elklnltek vagyunk? Az
letnek e roppant cenjban msok bneirt
szenvednk, msokat pedig arra ksztetnk, hogy a
mi bneinkrt szenvedjenek. Termszetesen, a
Legfelsbb egyenslyi trvnyek uralkodnak, s a
vgn a szmlk kiegyenltsre kerlnek. De amg
az let fennll, addig mlysges hatssal vagyunk
egymsra.
K: Igen, ahogy a klt mondja: Senki nem sziget.
vgynak, nevezheted szeretetnek nem szavakon
mlik.
K: Vgyhatom a szenvedst? Kereshetem
szndkosan a fjdalmat? Nem ahhoz az emberhez
hasonltok, aki puha gyat vetett magnak egy j
jszakai alvs remnyben, majd rmlom lepte
meg, s hnykoldik s sikoltozik lmban?
Bizonyra nem a szeretet az, ami a rmlmokat
ltrehozza.
M: Mindenfle szenveds oka nz elklnls,
elszigetelds s kapzsisg. Amikor a szenveds
oka megrtsre s eltvoltsra kerl, a szenveds
megsznik.
K: n lehet, hogy eltvoltom a fjdalom okt, de a
tbbiek tovbb fognak szenvednek.
M: Ahhoz, hogy megrtsd a szenvedst, tl kell
lpned a fjdalmon s rmn. A sajt vgyaid s
flelmeid akadlyoznak a megrtsben, s ezltal a
msoknak val segtsben. Valjban nincsenek
msok, s a magadon val segtssel mindenki
mst is segtesz. Ha komolyan veszed az emberisg
segtst, akkor a rendelkezsedre ll egyetlen
eszkzt kell tkletestened nmagadat.
K: lltsod szerint n vagyok e vilg teremtje,
megtartja s puszttja, aki mindentt jelenval,
mindentud, mindenhat. Mikzben szavaidon
tndm, azt krdem magamtl: hogy van az, hogy
oly sok gonoszsg van a vilgomban?
M: Nincs gonoszsg, nincs szenveds; az letrm
kimagasl. Nzd, hogy kapaszkodik minden az
letbe, milyen rtkes a ltezs.
K: Elmm kpernyjn egymst kvetik a kpek,
vgtelen sorban. Semmi nem maradand, ami
velem kapcsolatos.
M: Vizsgld meg magad jobban. A kperny nem
vltozik. A fny folyamatosan vilgt. Csak a
kzttk lv film mozog kpek megjelenst idzve
el ezltal. Nevezheted a filmet sorsnak
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
(prarabdha).
Q: What creates destiny?
M: Ignorance is the cause of inevitability.
Q: Ignorance of what?
M: Ignorance of yourself primarily. Also, ignorance
of the true nature of things, of their causes and
effects. You look round without understanding and
take appearances for reality. You believe you know
the world and yourself -- but it is only your ignorance
that makes you say: I know. Begin with the
admission that you do not know and start from there.
There is nothing that can help the world more than
your putting an end to ignorance. Then, you need
not do anything in particular to help the world. Your
very being is a help, action or no action.
Q: How can ignorance be known? To know
ignorance presupposes knowledge.
M: Quite right. The very admission: 'I am ignorant' is
the dawn of knowledge. An ignorant man is ignorant
of his ignorance. You can say that ignorance does
not exist, for the moment it is seen it is no more.
Therefore, you may call it unconsciousness or
blindness. All you see around and within you is what
you do not know and do not understand, without
even knowing that you do not know and do not
understand. To know that you do not know and do
not understand is true knowledge, the knowledge of
an humble heart.
Q: Yes, Christ said: Blessed are the poor in spirit...
M: Put it as you like; the fact is that knowledge is of
ignorance only. You know that you do not know.
Q: Will ignorance ever end?
M: What is wrong with not knowing? You need not
know all. Enough to know what you need to know.
The rest can look after itself, without your knowing
how it does it. What is important is that your
unconscious does not work against the conscious,
that there is integration on all levels. To know is not
so very important.
Q: What you say is correct psychologically. But K: Amit mondasz hibtlan, pszicholgiai rtelemben.
when it comes to knowing others, knowing the world, De mikor az egyb dolgok ismeretrl, a vilg
my knowing that I do not know does not help much. ismeretrl van sz, akkor tudni, hogy nem tudok,
nem sokat segt.
M: Once you are inwardly integrated, outer
356
(prarabdha).
K: Mi hozza ltre a sorsot?
M: Az elkerlhetetlensg oka a tudatlansg tuds.
K: A mivel kapcsolatos tudatlansg?
M: Az nmagaddal kapcsolatos tudatlansg,
elssorban. Aztn a dolgok igazi termszetvel,
okaival, s hatsaival kapcsolatos tudatlansg.
Megrts nlkl tekintesz krl, s anlkl, hogy
megragadnd a valsg megjelenst. Azt hiszed,
ismered a vilgot, s nmagadat de a tudatlansg
mondatja veled csupn: ismerem. Kezdd annak az
elfogadsval, hogy nem tudsz, s indulj innen.
Semmi nincs, ami a vilgot jobban segtheti, mint ha
vget vetsz a tudatlansgnak. Akkor majd semmi
klnset nem kell tenned, hogy segts a vilgon.
Valjban a lted a segtsg, akr cselekszel, akr
sem.
K: Hogy lehet a tudatlansg ismert? A tudatlansg
ismerete tudst elfelttelez.
M: gy van. A tudatlan vagyok teljes elfogadsa
tuds kezdete. Egy tudatlan ember nem tudja, hogy
tudatlan. Mondhatod, hogy nem ltezik tudatlansg,
akkor abban a pillanatban gy ltszik, hogy nincs is.
Ezrt tudattalansgnak, vagy vaksgnak is
nevezheted. Semmit nem ismersz, s nem rtesz,
brmit ltsz magad krl, s magadban, st, mg
azt sem tudod, hogy nem ismered, s nem rted. Az
igazi tuds, az alzatos szv tudsa az, ha tudod,
hogy nem tudsz, s nem rtesz.
K: Igen, ahogy Krisztus mondta: Boldogok a lelki
szegnyek
M: Fogalmazz, ahogy tetszik; a tny az, hogy tudsa
csak tudatlansgnak lehet. Tudod, hogy nem tudsz.
K: Vget r a tudatlansg valaha?
M: Mi bajod a tudatlansggal? Nem kell mindent
tudnod. Elegend azt tudni, amit tudnod szksges.
A tbbi tud nmagrl gondoskodni anlkl is, hogy
tudnd, hogy csinlja. Ami lnyeges, hogy
tudattalansgod ne dolgozzon a tudatos ellen, hogy
egysg legyen minden szinten. Tudni nem olyan
nagyon fontos.
M: Ha belsleg teljes vagy, a kls tuds spontn
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
knowledge comes to you spontaneously. At every
moment of your life you know what you need to
know. In the ocean of the universal mind all
knowledge is contained; it is yours on demand. Most
of it you may never need to know -- but it is yours all
the same.
As with knowledge, so it is with power.
Whatever you feel needs be done happens
unfailingly. No doubt, God attends to this business of
managing the universe; but He is glad to have some
help. When the helper is selfless and intelligent, all
the powers of the universe are for him to command.
Q: Even the blind powers of nature?
M: There are no blind powers. Consciousness is
power. Be aware of what needs be done and it will
be done. Only keep alert -- and quiet. Once you
reach your destination and know your real nature,
your existence becomes a blessing to all. You may
not know, nor will the world know, yet the help
radiates. There are people in the world who do more
good than all the statesmen and philanthropists put
together. They radiate light and peace with no
intention or knowledge. When others tell them about
the miracles they worked, they also are wonder
struck. Yet, taking nothing as their own, they are
neither proud, nor do they crave for reputation. They
are just unable to desire anything for themselves,
not even the joy of helping others knowing that God
is good they are at peace.
77. 'I' and 'Mine' are False Ideas
Questioner: I am very much attached to my family
and possessions. How can I conquer this
attachment?
Maharaj: This attachment is born along with the
sense of 'me' and 'mine'. Find the true meaning of
these words and you will be free of all bondage. You
have a mind which is spread in time. One after
another all things happen to you and the memory
remains. There is nothing wrong in it. The problem
arises only when the memory of past pains and
pleasures -- which are essential to all organic life --
remains as a reflex, dominating behaviour. This
reflex takes the shape of 'I' and uses the body and
the mind for its purposes, which are invariably in
search for pleasure or flight from pain. When you
recognise the 'I' as it is, a bundle of desires and
fears, and the sense of 'mine', as embracing all
things and people needed for the purpose of
357
mdon eljn hozzd. leted minden pillanatban
tudod, amit tudnod szksges. Az univerzlis elme
cenjban minden tuds benne foglaltatik; a tid,
igny szerint. Legnagyobb rszt soha nem kell
tudnod de ennek ellenre a tid.
Ahogy a tudssal, gy van a hatalommal is.
Brmirl rzed gy, hogy meg kell trtnnie, az
biztosan megtrtnik. Ktsgtelen, hogy Isten
felgyeli az univerzum vezetsvel kapcsolatos
ezen gyet; de boldog, ha kap valamilyen
segtsget. Amikor a segt nzetlen s intelligens,
az univerzum minden hatalma a rendelkezsre ll.
K: Mg a termszet vak eri is?
M: Nincsenek vak erk. A tudatossg az er. Ismerd
fel, hogy mi a tennival, s az meg fog trtnni.
Csak maradj ber s csendes. Amint clodba rsz,
s ismered sajt valdi termszetedet, ltezsed
ldss vlik mindenek szmra. Nem ismerheted,
a vilg sem fogja ismerni, mgis, a segtsg kirad.
lnek a vilgon olyan emberek, akik tbb jt
tesznek, mint az sszes llamfrfi, s emberbart
egyttvve. Fnyt, s bkt sugroznak, a tuds
mindenfle szndka nlkl. Amikor msok
elmondjk nekik, milyen csodkat mveltek, maguk
is elcsodlkoznak. Mgsem tulajdontanak semmit
maguknak, nem bszkk, s hrnvre sem tartanak
ignyt. ppensggel kptelenek r, hogy nmaguk
rdekben brmire vgyakozzanak, mg arra az
rmre sem vgynak, hogy segtsenek msok
szmra, hogy megismerjk, hogy Isten j, hogy
bkessgben vannak.
77. Az n s az enym tves idek
Krdez: n nagyon ktdm a csaldomhoz, s a
tulajdonaimhoz. Hogyan kzdhetem le ezt a
ktdst?
Maharaj: Ez a ktds az n s az enym
rzetvel egytt szletett. Talld meg e szavak igazi
jelentst, s meg fogsz szabadulni minden
ktttsgtl. Elmd van, amely idbeli kiterjeds.
Szmodra egyik dolog a msik utn trtnik, s az
emlkezetben fennmarad. Semmi baj ezzel. A
problma csak akkor merl fel, amikor a mltbeli
emlke a fjdalomnak s rmnek amelyek
minden szerves let szmra nlklzhetetlenek
fennmarad, mint reflex, uralva a viselkedst. Ez a
reflex n formt vesz fel, s a testet s elmt sajt
cljaira hasznlja, amelyek llandan az rm
keresse, vagy a fjdalom ell val menekls.
Amikor az nt akknt ismered fel ami, vgyak s
flelmek csomagjaknt, s az enym rzett
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
avoiding pain and securing pleasure, you will see
that the 'I' and the 'mine' are false ideas, having no
foundation in reality. Created by the mind, they rule
their creator as long as it takes them to be true;
when questioned, they dissolve.
The 'I' and 'mine', having no existence in
themselves, need a support which they find in the
body. The body becomes their point of reference.
When you talk of 'my' husband and 'my' children,
you mean the body's husband and the body's
children. Give up the idea of being the body and
face the question: Who am l? At once a process will
be set in motion which will bring back reality, or,
rather, will take the mind to reality. Only, you must
not be afraid.
Q: What am I to be afraid of?
M: For reality to be, the ideas of 'me' and 'mine' must
go. They will go if you let them. Then your normal
natural state reappears, in which you are neither the
body nor the mind, neither the 'me nor the 'mine',
but in a different state of being altogether. It is pure
awareness of being, without being this or that,
without any self-identification with anything in
particular, or in general. In that pure light of
consciousness there is nothing, not even the idea of
nothing. There is only light.
Q: There are people whom I love. Must I give them
up?
M: You only let go your hold on them. The rest is up
to them. They may lose interest in you, or may not.
Q: How could they? Are they not my own?
M: They are your body's, not your own. Or, better,
there is none who is not your own.
Q: And what about my possessions?
M: When the 'mine' is no more, where are your
possessions?
Q: Please tell me, must I lose all by losing the 'I'?
M: You may or you may not. It will be all the same to M: Lehet, hogy igen, lehet, hogy nem. Minden
you. Your loss will be somebody's gain. You will not azonos lesz szmodra. A te vesztesged valakinek
mind. a nyeresge lesz. Nem fogsz vele trdni.
Q: If I do not mind, I shall lose all.
358
akknt, ami minden dolgot s embert azrt foglal
magban, mert azok a fjdalom elkerlsre, s az
rm biztostsa cljbl szksgesek, ltni fogod,
hogy az n s enym hamis idek, amelyeknek
semmi alapjuk a valsgban. Miutn az elme
ltrehozta ket addig uraljk ltrehozjukat, amg az
igaznak tartja ket; amikor ktsgbe vonatnak,
szertefoszlanak.
Az n s az enym nmagukban nem ltezhetvn
tmogatst ignyelnek, amelyet a testben tallnak
meg. A test vlik az vonatkozsi pontjukk. Amikor
azt mondod, az n frjem s az n gyermekeim,
akkor gy rted, hogy a test frje s a test
gyermekei. Add fel a testtel val azonossg idejt,
s nzz szembe a krdssel: ki vagyok n? Azonnal
egy folyamat fog mozgsba lendlni, amely
visszahoz a valsgba, jobban mondva, visszaviszi
az elmt a valsgba. Csak nem szabad flned.
K: Mirt kellene flnem?
M: Mert ahhoz, hogy a valsg lgy az nnek s az
enymnek tvozniuk kell. Menni fognak, ha hagyod
ket. Akkor norml termszetes llapotod jra
megjelenik, amelyben nem vagy sem a test, sem az
elme, sem az n, sem az enym, hanem a lt
klnbz llapotainak egsze. Ez a lt tiszta
tudata, anlkl, hogy ez vagy az lennl, anlkl,
hogy brmivel azonostand magad egyedileg, vagy
ltalnossgban. A tudatossgnak abban a tiszta
fnyben semmi nincs, mg a semmi ideja sincs.
Ott csak fny van.
K: Vannak szeretteim. Meg kell tlk vlnom?
M: Te csak hagyd, hogy jrjk a sajt tjukat. A
tbbi rajtuk mlik. Vagy elvesztik az rdekldsket
irntad, vagy nem.
K: Hogy tehetnnek ilyet? k nem az enyim?
M: k a testedi, nem a tieid. Jobban mondva, senki
nincs, aki nem a tid.
K: s mi van a javaimmal?
M: Amikor nincs tbb enym, hol vannak neked
javaid?
K: Mondd, krlek, mindent el kell vesztenem az n
elvesztsvel?
K: Ha nem trdm vele, mindent el fogok veszteni.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
M: Once you have nothing you have no problems.
Q: I am left with the problem of survival.
M: It is the body's problem and it will solve it by
eating, drinking and sleeping. There is enough for
all, provided all share.
Q: Our society is based on grabbing, not on sharing. K: A mi trsadalmunk a szerzsen, nem az
osztozson alapul.
M: By sharing you will change it.
Q: I do not feel like sharing. Anyhow, I am being
taxed out of my possessions.
M: This is not the same as voluntary sharing.
Society will not change by compulsion. It requires a
change of heart. Understand that nothing is your
own, that all belongs to all. Then only society will
change.
Q: One man's understanding will not take the world
far.
M: The world in which you live will be affected
deeply. It will be a healthy and happy world, which
will radiate and communicate, increase and spread.
The power of a true heart is immense.
Q: Please tell us more.
M: Talking is not my hobby. Sometimes I talk,
sometimes I do not. My talking, or not talking, is a
part of a given situation and does not depend on me.
When there is a situation in which I have to talk, I
hear myself talking. In some other situation I may
not hear myself talking. It is all the same to me.
Whether I talk or not, the light and love of being what
I am are not affected, nor are they under my control.
They are, and I know they are. There is a glad
awareness, but nobody who is glad. Of course, there
is a sense of identity, but it is the identity of a
memory track, like the identity of a sequence of
pictures on the ever-present screen. Without the
light and the screen there can be no picture. To
know the picture as the play of light on the screen,
gives freedom from the idea that the picture is real.
All you have to do is to understand that you love the
self and the self loves you and that the sense 'I am'
is the link between you both, a token of identity in
spite of apparent diversity. Look at the 'I am' as a
sign of love between the inner and the outer, the real
and the appearance. Just like in a dream all is
different, except the sense of 'I', which enables you
to say 'I dreamt', so does the sense of 'I am' enable
you to say 'I am my real Self again. I do nothing, nor
is anything done to me. I am what I am and nothing
can affect me. I appear to depend on everything, but
359
M: Ha semmid sincs, nincsenek problmid.
K: A tlls problmja megmarad.
M: Az a test problmja, amit evssel, ivssal s
alvssal meg fog oldani. Van elegend mindenki
szmra, feltve, hogy osztoznak rajta.
M: Megosztssal meg fogod vltoztatni.
K: Nem tudok rla, hogy lenne megoszts. n
mindenesetre, adzom a javaim utn.
M: Ez nem azonos az nkntes megosztssal. A
trsadalom nem fog megvltozni knyszer hatsra.
A szv megvltozst ignyli. rtsd meg, hogy
semmi nem a te sajtod, hogy minden mindenhez
hozztartozik. Csak ekkor vltozik meg a
trsadalom.
K: Egy ember megrtse nem fogja a vilgot
elrbb vinni.
M: A vilg, amelyben lsz, mlyen meg fog vltozni.
Egszsges s boldog vilg lesz, amely sugrz,
egyttrz, gyarapod, s terjeszked. Az igaz szv
ereje mrhetetlen.
K: Krlek, meslj mg neknk.
M: A mesls nem a kedvenc idtltsem. Nha
meslek, nha nem. A meslsem, vagy a nem
meslsem az adott szituci rsze, s nem tlem
fgg. Amikor olyan a szituci, amelyben meslnem
kell, akkor meslni hallom magam. Ms
szitucikban nem hallom magam meslni.
Szmomra egyre megy. Meslek, vagy sem, az a lt
fnyre s szeretetre, ami vagyok, nincs hatssal,
s nem is az n ellenrzsem alatt ll. Ezek vannak,
s n tudom, hogy vannak. Van boldogsg tudat, de
nincs senki, aki boldog. Termszetesen, jelen van
az nazonossg rzse, de ez az emlknyomok
nazonossga, olyan, mint egy kpsor a mindig
jelenlv kpernyn. A fny s a kperny nlkl
nem lehetnnek kpek. Tudni, hogy a kp a fny
jtka a kpernyn, megszabadt attl az idetl,
hogy a kp valdi. Nem kell mst tenned, mint
megrteni, hogy te szereted az nt, s az n szeret
tged, s hogy a ketttk kztti kapcsolat az n
vagyok rzse, ami az azonossg jele, a
ltszlagos klnbzsg ellenre. Tekints az n
vagyok-ra mint a bels s a kls, a valdi s a
ltszat kztti szeretet jelre. Miknt egy lomban
minden ms, kivve az n rzst, amely lehetv
teszi, hogy azt mondd, n lmodtam, ppen gy
teszi lehetv az n vagyok rzse, hogy azt
mondd, ismt n vagyok a valdi n. Nem csinlok
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
in fact all depends on me.
Q: How can you say you do nothing? Are you not
talking to me?
M: I do not have the feeling that I am talking. There
is talking going on, that is all.
Q: I talk.
M: Do you? You hear yourself talking and you say: I
talk.
Q: Everybody says: 'I work, I come, I go'.
M: I have no objection to the conventions of your
language, but they distort and destroy reality. A
more accurate way of saying would have been:
'There is talking, working, coming, going'. For
anything to happen, the entire universe must
coincide. It is wrong to believe that anything in
particular can cause an event. Every cause is
universal. Your very body would not exist without the
entire universe contributing to its creation and
survival. I am fully aware that things happen as they
happen because the world is as it is. To affect the
course of events I must bring a new factor into the
world and such factor can only be myself, the power
of love and understanding focussed in me.
When the body is born, all kinds of things happen to
it and you take part in them, because you take
yourself to be the body. You are like the man in the
cinema house, laughing and crying with the picture,
though knowing fully well that he is all the time in his
seat and the picture is but the play of light. It is
enough to shift attention from the screen to oneself
to break the spell. When the body dies, the kind of
life you live now -- succession of physical and
mental events -- comes to an end. It can end even
now -- without waiting for the death of the body -- it
is enough to shift attention to the Self and keep it
there. All happens as if there is a mysterious power
that creates and moves everything. Realise that you
are not the mover, only the observer, and you will be
at peace.
Q: Is that power separate from me?
M: Of course not. But you must begin by being the
dispassionate observer. Then only will you realise
your full being as the universal lover and actor. As
long as you are enmeshed in the tribulations of a
particular personality, you can see nothing beyond it.
But ultimately you will come to see that you are
360
semmit, s ms sem csinl velem semmit. Vagyok,
ami vagyok, s semmi nincs rm hatssal. Ltszat
szerint n fggk mindentl, de valjban tlem
fgg minden.
K: Hogy mondhatod, hogy nem csinlsz semmit?
Nem beszlsz velem?
M: Nincs olyan rzsem, hogy beszlek. Beszd
zajlik, ez minden.
K: n beszlek.
M: Valban? Hallod magad beszlni, s azt
mondod: n beszlek.
K: Mindenki gy beszl: n dolgozom, n jvk, n
megyek.
M: Semmi ellenvetsem a nyelvi szoksaiddal
kapcsolatban, de torztanak, s romboljk a
valsgot. A kvetkez megfogalmazs sokkal
szabatosabb lenne: beszd, munka, jvs, mens
trtnik. Mert akrmi trtnjk, az csak a teljes
univerzum egyetrtsvel lehetsges. Hiba azt
hinni, hogy valamifle egyedi oka lehet egy
esemnynek. Minden ok egyetemes. Valjban a
tested sem ltezne anlkl, hogy a teljes univerzum
ne mkdne kzre ltrehozsban, s letben
maradsban. n teljes tudatban vagyok, hogy a
dolgok azrt trtnnek gy, ahogy trtnnek, mert a
vilg olyan, amilyen. Az esemnyek menett
befolysoland egy j tnyezt kell behoznom a
vilgba, s ez a tnyez csak n magam lehetek, a
bennem sszpontosul szeretet s megrts ereje.
Megszletse utn a testtel mindenfle dolgok
trtnnek, s te rsztvevje vagy ezeknek, mert a
testnek tartod magad. Olyan vagy, mint a mozi nz,
a filmmel nevet s sr, jllehet teljesen tisztban van
vele, hogy egsz id alatt a szkben l, s a film
csak a fny jtka. Elegend, ha thelyezi a
figyelmt a kpernyrl nmagra, hogy megtrje a
varzst. Amikor a test meghal, akkor az a fajta let,
amit most lsz fizikai s mentlis esemnyek sora
vget r. Vget rhet akr most is anlkl, hogy
vrnd a test hallt elg thelyezni a figyelmedet
az nre, s ott tartani. Minden gy trtnik, mintha
ltezne egy misztikus er, amely mindent ltrehoz,
s mozgat. Ismerd fel, hogy nem te vagy a mozgat,
csak a megfigyel, s bkben leszel.
K: Ez az er fggetlen tlem?
M: Termszetesen nem. De azzal kell kezdened,
hogy a prtatlan megfigyel vagy. Csak akkor fogod
teljes lnyedet az univerzlis szeretetknt, s
cselekvknt felismerni. Amg egy konkrt szemly
gytrelmeinek a kelepcjben vagy, nem vagy
kpes semmit ltni azon tl. De vgl el fogsz jutni
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
neither the particular nor the universal, you are
beyond both. As the tiny point of a pencil can draw
innumerable pictures, so does the dimensionless
point of awareness draw the contents of the vast
universe. Find that point and be free.
Q: Out of what do I create this world?
M: Out of your own memories. As long as you are
ignorant of yourself as the creator, your world is
limited and repetitive. Once you go beyond your self-
identification with your past, you are free to create a
new world of harmony and beauty. Or you just
remain -- beyond being and non-being.
Q: What will remain with me if I let go my memories? K: Mi fog velem maradni, ha elengedek minden
emlket?
M: Nothing will remain.
Q: I am afraid.
M: You will be afraid until you experience freedom
and its blessings. Of course, some memories are
needed to identify and guide the body and such
memories do remain, but there is no attachment left
to the body as such; it is no longer the ground for
desire or fear. All this is not very difficult to
understand and practice, but you must be interested.
Without interest nothing can be done.
Having seen that you are a bundle of memories held
together by attachment, step out and look from the
outside. You may perceive for the first time
something which is not memory. You cease to be a
Mr-so-and-so, busy about his own affairs. You are at
last at peace. You realise that nothing was ever
wrong with the world -- you alone were wrong and
now it is all over. Never again will you be caught in
the meshes of desire born of ignorance.
78. All Knowledge is Ignorance
Questioner: Are we permitted to request you to tell
us the manner of your realisation?
Maharaj: Somehow it was very simple and easy in
my case. My Guru, before he died, told me: Believe
me, you are the Supreme Reality. Don't doubt my
words, don't disbelieve me. I am telling you the truth
-- act on it. I could not forget his words and by not
forgetting -- I have realised.
Q: But what were you actually doing?
361
annak ltsig, hogy nem vagy sem az egyedi, sem
az univerzlis, mindegyiken tl vagy. Mint ahogy a
ceruza parnyi hegye szmtalan rajzot kpes
megrajzolni, gy rajzolja meg a tudat dimenzi
nlkli pontja a hatalmas univerzum tartalmt. Talld
meg ezt a pontot, s lgy szabad.
K: Mibl hozom ltre ezt a vilgot?
M: Sajt emlkeidbl. Amg nem vagy tudatban
nmagadnak, mint teremtnek, vilgod korltozott,
s ismtld. Amint tllpsz nmagad mlttal val
azonostsn, szabadsgodban ll a harmnia s
szpsg egy j vilgnak a megteremtse. Vagy
csak megmaradni lten s nemlten tl.
M: Semmi nem fog maradni.
K: Flek.
M: Flni fogsz egszen addig, amg meg nem
tapasztalod a szabadsgot, s annak ldsait.
Termszetesen, bizonyos emlkek szksgesek a
test felismershez, s irnytshoz, s az ilyen
emlkek megmaradnak, de a testhez val
ragaszkods nem marad meg; nincs tbb alapja
vgynak s flelemnek. Nem tl bonyolult dolog
megrteni, s gyakorolni mindezt, de muszj, hogy
rdekeljen. rdek nlkl semmi nem vihet vgbe.
Megltvn, hogy egy ktttsgek ltal sszetartott
emlkcsomag vagy, lpj ki, s nzd kvlrl. Mr
elszrre is szrevehetsz valamit, ami nem emlk.
Abbahagyod, hogy ez-s-ez-r legyl, aki sajt
gyeivel van elfoglalva. Vgre bkben vagy.
Felismered, hogy soha semmi baj nem volt a
vilggal egyedl veled volt baj, s ennek most
vge van. Soha tbb nem fogsz belekerlni a
tudatlansg szlte vgy hljba.
78. Minden tuds tudatlansg
Krdez: Megengeded, hogy arra krjnk, mesld
el neknk, hogyan trtnt a megvalsulsod?
Maharaj: Az n esetemben ez valahogy ez nagyon
egyszer s knny volt. Halla eltt Gurum azt
mondta: Higgy nekem, te vagy a Legfelsbb
Valsg. Ne vond ktsgbe a szavaimat, ne
ktelkedj bennem. n az igazsgot mondom neked
cselekedj annak megfelelen. Szavait nem tudtam
feledni, s mivel nem felejtettem megvalsultam.
K: De mit csinltl tulajdonkppen?
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
M: Nothing special. I lived my life, plied my trade,
looked after my family, and every free moment I
would spend just remembering my Guru and his
words. He died soon after and I had only the
memory to fall back on. It was enough.
Q: It must have been the grace and power of your
Guru.
M: His words were true and so they came true. True
words always come true. My Guru did nothing; his
words acted because they were true. Whatever I did,
came from within, un-asked and unexpected.
Q: The Guru started a process without taking any
part in it?
M: Put it as you like. Things happen as they happen
-- who can tell why and how? I did nothing
deliberately. All came by itself -- the desire to let go,
to be alone, to go within.
Q: You made no efforts whatsoever?
M: None. Believe it or not, I was not even anxious to
realise. He only told me that I am the Supreme and
then died. I just could not disbelieve him. The rest
happened by itself. I found myself changing -- that is
all. As a matter of fact, I was astonished. But a
desire arose in me to verify his words. I was so sure
that he, could not possibly have told a lie, that I felt I
shall either realise the full meaning of his words or
die. I was feeling quite determined, but did not know
what to do. I would spend hours thinking of him and
his assurance, not arguing, but just remembering
what he told me.
Q: What happened to you then? How did you know
that you are the Supreme?
M: Nobody came to tell me. Nor was I told so
inwardly. In fact, it was only in the beginning when I
was making efforts, that I was passing through some
strange experiences; seeing lights, hearing voices,
meeting gods and goddesses and conversing with
them. Once the Guru told me: 'You are the Supreme
Reality', I ceased having visions and trances and
became very quiet and simple. I found myself
desiring and knowing less and less, until I could say
in utter astonishment: 'I know nothing, I want
nothing.'
362
M: Semmi klnset. ltem az letem, gyakoroltam
a mestersgem, gondoskodtam a csaldomrl, s
minden szabad pillanatomat arra fordtottam, hogy
Gurumra emlkezzem, s az szavaira. nem
sokkal ezutn meghalt, s n csak az emlkre
tmaszkodhattam.
K: Ez Gurud kegyelme s hatalma kellett, hogy
legyen.
M: Az szavai igazak voltak, s gy igaznak
bizonyultak. Az igaz szavak mindig igaznak
bizonyulnak. Gurum nem csinlt semmit; szavai
mkdtek, mivel igazak voltak. Brmit csinltam n,
az bellrl jtt, kretlenl, s vratlanul.
K: A Guru elindtott egy folyamatot anlkl, hogy
rszt vett volna benne?
M: Fogalmazz, ahogy tetszik. A dolgok trtnnek,
ahogy trtnnek ki tudn megmondani mirt, s
hogyan? Semmit nem szndkosan tettem. Minden
jtt magtl az elengeds, az egyedllt, a befel
forduls vgya.
K: Egyltaln semmilyen erfesztst nem tettl?
M: Nem. Hiszed, vagy sem, mg csak nem is vrtam
a megvalsulst. csak annyit mondott nekem,
hogy n vagyok a Legfelsbb, s azutn meghalt.
n csupn nem tudtam nem hinni neki. A tbbi
magtl trtnt. gy talltam, hogy vltozom ez
minden. Tulajdonkppen meglepdtem. De vgy
bredt bennem, hogy szavait beteljestsem. Oly
biztos voltam benne, hogy lehetetlen hazudnia, hogy
gy reztem, vagy hinytalanul beteljestem, amit
szavai jelentenek, vagy meghalok. Teljesen
hatrozottan reztem, de nem tudtam, mit kell tenni.
rkat tltttem azzal, hogy r gondoltam, s az
lltsra, nem vitatkozva vele, hanem csak
emlkezve arra, amit mondott nekem.
K: Mi trtnt veled azutn? Hogy tudtad meg, hogy
te vagy a Legfelsbb?
M: Senki nem jtt, hogy elmondja nekem. Bellrl
sem hallottam. Valjban, csak kezdetben fordult
el, amikor erfesztseket tettem, hogy klns
tapasztalsokon mentem keresztl; fnyeket lttam,
hangokat hallottam, istenekkel s istennkkel
tallkoztam, s beszlgettem. Amikor a Guru azt
mondta nekem: te vagy a Legfelsbb Valsg,
vziim s rvleteim megszntek, s nagyon
csendes s egyszer lettem. gy talltam, vgyam
s tudsom egyre kevesebb s kevesebb, mgnem
elmondhattam, legteljesebb megdbbensemre:
nem tudok semmit, nem akarok semmit.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: Were you genuinely free of desire and K: Termszetes mdon szabadultl meg a vgytl,
knowledge, or did you impersonate a gnani s tudstl, vagy a gnani szerept szemlyestetted
according to the image given to you by your Guru? meg, a Gurud ltal adott kppel sszhangban?

M: I was not given any image, nor did I have one. M: Nem kaptam semmilyen kpet, s nem is volt
My Guru never told me what to expect. semmi ilyenem. Gurum soha nem beszlt arrl, mire
szmtsak.

Q: More things may happen to you. Are you at the K: Tovbbi dolgok trtnhetnek veled. Utad vgn
end of your journey? vagy?

M: There was never any journey. I am, as I always M: Soha nem volt semmifle t. n vagyok, ami
was. mindig is voltam.

Q: What was the Supreme Reality you were K: Mi a Legfelsbb Valsg, amit el kvntl rni?
supposed to reach?

M: I was undeceived, that is all. I used to create a M: Felnylt a szemem, ez minden. Egy vilgot
world and populate it -- now I don't do it any more. teremtettem, s benpestettem azt most mr
tbb semmit nem teszek.

Q: Where do you live, then? K: Hol lsz akkor?

M: In the void beyond being and non-being, beyond
consciousness. This void is also fullness; do not pity
me. It is like a man saying: 'I have done my work,
there is nothing left to do'.
M: A lten s nemlten tli ressgben, tl a
tudatossgon. Ez az ressg teljessg is; ne sajnlj
engem. Ez olyan, mint amikor azt mondja az ember:
megcsinltam a munkmat, semmi teendm nem
maradt.

Q: You are giving a certain date to your realisation. K: Megvalsulsodat egy konkrt dtummal jelld.
It means something did happen to you at that date. Ez azt jelenti, hogy trtnt valami azon a napon. Mi
What happened? trtnt?

M: The mind ceased producing events. The ancient M: Az elme abbahagyta az esemnyek ltrehozst.
and ceaseless search stopped -- l wanted nothing, A rgi szakadatlan keress lellt nem akartam
expected nothing -- accepted nothing as my own. semmit, nem vrtam semmit nem fogadtam el
There was no 'me' left to strive for. Even the bare 'Isemmit nmagamknt. Nem volt n, hogy
am' faded away. The other thing that I noticed was trekedjen. Mg a meztelen n vagyok is eltnt. A
that I lost all my habitual certainties. Earlier I wasmsik dolog amit szrevettem az volt, hogy
sure of so many things, now I am sure of nothing. elvesztettem minden megrgztt bizonyossgomat.
But I feel that I have lost nothing by not knowing, Korbban oly sok dologban biztos voltam, most nem
because all my knowledge was false. My not voltam biztos semmiben. De gy rzem, nem
knowing was in itself knowledge of the fact that all vesztettem semmit a nem tudssal, mert minden
knowledge is ignorance, that 'I do not know' is the ismeretem hamis volt. Nem tudsom nmagban
only true statement the mind can make. Take the annak a tnynek a tudsa volt, hogy minden tuds
tudatlansg, hogy a nem tudom az elme egyetlen
idea 'I was born'. You may take it to be true. It is not.
You were never born, nor will you ever die. It is the igaz kijelentse. Vegyk az n szlettem idet.
idea that was born and shall die, not you. By Lehet, hogy te ezt igaznak tartod. Nem az. Te soha
identifying yourself with it you became mortal. Just nem szlettl, s soha nem is fogsz meghalni. Az
like in a cinema all is light, so does consciousness idea, hogy szlettl, s meg fogsz halni, nem a tid.
become the vast world. Look closely, and you will A vele val azonosulsoddal vltl halandv. Mint
see that all names and forms are but transitory ahogy a moziban minden fny, pp gy vlik a
waves on the ocean of consciousness, that only tudatossg a vgtelen vilgg. Vizsgld meg
consciousness can be said to be, not its gondosan, s ltni fogod, hogy a nevek s formk
transformations. csak ml hullmok a tudatossg cenjn, hogy
csak a tudatossgrl mondhat el, hogy van, annak
In the immensity of consciousness a light appears, a talakulsairl nem.
tiny point that moves rapidly and traces shapes,
thoughts and feelings, concepts and ideas, like the A tudatossg vgtelensgben megjelenik egy
pen writing on paper. And the ink that leaves a trace fnysugr, egy gyorsan mozg, apr pont, amely

363
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
is memory. You are that tiny point and by your
movement the world is ever re-created. Stop
moving, and there will be no world. Look within and
you will find that the point of light is the reflection of
the immensity of light in the body, as the sense 'I
am'. There is only light, all else appears.
Q: Do you know that light? Have you seen it?
M: To the mind it appears as darkness. It can be
known only through its reflections. All is seen in
daylight -- except daylight.
Q: Have I to understand that our minds are similar?
M: How can it be? You have your own private mind,
woven with memories, held together by desires and
fears. I have no mind of my own; what I need to
know the universe brings before me, as it supplies
the food I eat.
Q: Do you know all you want to know?
M: There is nothing I want to know. But what I need
to know, I come to know.
Q: Does this knowledge come to you from within or
from outside?
M: It does not apply. My inner is outside and my
outer is inside. I may get from you the knowledge
needed at the moment, but you are not apart from
me.
Q: What is turiya, the fourth state we hear about?
M: To be the point of light tracing the world is turiya.
To be the light itself is turiyatita. But of what use are
names when reality is so near?
Q: Is there any progress in your condition? When
you compare yourself yesterday with yourself today,
do you find yourself changing, making progress?
Does your vision of reality grow in width and depth?
M: Reality is immovable and yet in constant
movement. It is like a mighty river -- it flows and yet
it is there -- eternally. What flows is not the river with
its bed and banks, but its water, so does the sattva
guna, the universal harmony, play its games against
tamas and rajas, the forces of darkness and despair.
In sattva there is always change and progress, in
rajas there is change and regress, while tamas
stands for chaos. The three Gunas play eternally
against each other -- it is a fact and there can be no
364
formk, gondolatok, rzsek, fogalmak s eszmk
nyomt hagyja, ahogy a toll nyomot hagy a papron.
s a tinta az, amely az emlkezetben a nyomot
hagyja. Te vagy ez az apr pont, s mozgsoddal
rkk jrateremted a vilgot. lltsd le a mozgst,
s nem lesz vilg. Tekints befel, s gy fogod
tallni, hogy a fnypont a fny vgtelensgnek a
testben val tkrzdse, mint n vagyok rzs.
K: Ismered azt a fnyt? Lttad mr?
M: Az elme szmra sttsgnek tnik. Ismerni azt
csak visszatkrzdsein keresztl lehet. Minden a
napfnyben lthat a napfnyt kivve.
K: gy rtsem, hogy elmink hasonlk?
M: Hogy lehetnnek azok? Neked sajt egyedi
elmd van, emlkekkel tszve, vgyaktl s
flelmekkel sszetartva. Nekem nincs sajt elmm;
amit tudnom kell, azt az univerzum hozza
tudomsomra, mint ahogy az tellel is ellt, amit
megeszem.
K: Mindent tudsz, amit tudni akarsz?
M: Semmit nem akarok tudni. De amit tudnom kell,
azt megtudom.
K: Ez a tuds bellrl, vagy kvlrl rkezik hozzd?
M: Nem szmt, honnan. Belsm kvl van, s
klsm bell. Lehet, hogy tled kapom a tudst,
amelyre e pillanatban szksgem van, de te nem
rajtam kvl vagy.
K: Mi a turiya, vagy ahogy mi ismerjk, a negyedik
llapot?
M: A turiya azt jelenti, a vilgot rajzol fnypontnak
lenni. A turiyatita azt jelenti, magnak a fnynek
lenni. De mi haszna a neveknek, amikor a valsg
oly kzel van?
K: Van fejlds az llapotodban? Amikor tegnapi
magadat mai magaddal hasonltod, vltoznak
tallod-e magad, mutatsz-e haladst?
Valsgltsod szlesedik, s mlyl?
M: A valsg megmozdthatatlan, s mgis lland
mozgsban van. Akr egy hatalmas foly folyik, s
mgis helyben van rkrvny. Ami folyik, az
nem a foly, annak gyval, s partjaival, hanem a
vize, ugyangy tesz a sattva guna is, az univerzlis
harmnia eljtssza a jtkait a tamassal s a
rajassal, a sttsg s remnytelensg erivel
szemben. A sattvban mindig vltozs s halads, a
rajasban vltozs s hanyatls van, mg a tamas a
koszt jelenti. A hrom Guna rkk egyms ellen
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
quarrel with a fact.
Q: Must I always go dull with tamas and desperate
with rajas? What about sattva?
M: Sattva is the radiance of your real nature. You
can always find it beyond the mind and its many
worlds. But if you want a world, you must accept the
three gunas as inseparable -- matter -- energy -- life
-- one in essence, distinct in appearance. They mix
and flow -- in consciousness. In time and space
there is eternal flow, birth and death again, advance,
retreat, another advance, again retreat -- apparently
without a beginning and without end; reality being
timeless, changeless, bodyless, mindless
awareness is bliss.
Q: I understand that, according to you, everything is
a state of consciousness. The world is full of things -
- a grain of sand is a thing, a planet is a thing. How
are they related to consciousness?
M: Where consciousness does not reach, matter
begins. A thing is a form of being which we have not
understood. It does not change -- it is always the
same -- it appears to be there on its own --
something strange and alien. Of course it is in the
chit, consciousness, but appears to be outside
because of its apparent changelessness. The
foundation of things is in memory -- without memory
there would be no recognition. Creation -- reflection -
- rejection: Brahma -- Vishnu -- Shiva: this is the
eternal process. All things are governed by it.
Q: Is there no escape?
M: I am doing nothing else, but showing the escape.
Understand that the One includes the Three and that
you are the One, and you shall be free of the world
process.
Q: What happens then to my consciousness?
M: After the stage of creation, comes the stage of
examination and reflection and, finally, the stage of
abandonment and forgetting. The consciousness
remains, but in a latent, quiet state.
Q: Does the state of identity remain?
M: The state of identity is inherent in reality and
never fades. But identity is neither the transient
personality (vyakti), nor the karma-bound
individuality (vyakta). It is what remains when all
self-identification is given up as false -- pure
consciousness, the sense of being all there is, or
could be. Consciousness is pure in the beginning
and pure in the end; in between it gets contaminated
365
jtszik ez tny, s tnyekkel nem lehet vitzni.
K: A tamassal mindig eltompultsg, s a rajassal
remnytelensg jr egytt? Mi a vlemnyed a
sattvrl?
M: A sattva valdi termszeted sugrzsa. Mindig
megtallhatod az elmn tl, s annak szmtalan
vilgban. De ha egy vilgot akarsz, a hrom gunt
el kell, hogy fogadd, mint lnyegket tekintve egy,
megjelenskben klnbz, elvlaszthatatlan
anyagenergialetet. Ezek a tudatossgban
keverednek s ramlanak. Idben s trben rk
folyamat, szlets s hall, halads, htrls,
megint halads, megint htrls ltszlag kezdet,
s vg nlkl; a valsg idtlen, vltozhatatlan, test
nlkli, elme nlkli tudat lvn boldogsg.
K: Megrtettem, hogy szerinted minden a
tudatossg llapota. A vilg dolgokkal van tele
dolog a porszem, s dolog a bolyg is. Hogyan
viszonyulnak ezek a tudatossghoz?
M: Ahov tudatossg nem r el, az az anyag
kezdete. Az anyag a ltezs egy olyan formja,
amelyet nem rtettnk meg. Nem vltozik mindig
ugyanaz ltszlag sajt jogn ltezik valami
klns, s idegen. Termszetesen, a csiten, a
tudatossgon bell van, de rajta kvl lvnek
ltszik, ltszlagos vltozatlansga miatt. A dolgok
alapja az emlkezetben van emlkezet nlkl nem
volna lehetsges a megismers. Teremts
tkrzs elvets: Brahma Vishnu Shiva: ez az
rkrvny folyamat. Minden dolog felet ez
uralkodik.
K: Nincs menekls?
M: Semmi mst sem teszek, mint a menekls tjt
mutatom. rtsd meg, hogy az Egy magban foglalja
a Hrmat, s hogy te vagy az Egy, s szabadd
vlsz a vilg folyamattl.
K: Mi fog trtnni a tudatossgommal?
M: A teremts fzisa utn jn a fellvizsglat s
tkrzs fzisa, s vgl a lemonds s felejts
fzisa. A tudatossg megmarad, de egy ltens,
csendes llapotban.
K: Az nazonossg llapota megmarad?
M: Az nazonossg llapota elvlaszthatatlan a
valsgtl, s soha veszti erejt. De az
nazonossg nem azonos sem a tnkeny
szemlyisggel (vyakti), sem a karma-kttt
szemlyisggel (vyakta). Ha minden nazonossg
hamisknt feladsra kerl, utna a tiszta tudatossg,
a minden ltez, vagy lehetsges ltnek az rzse
marad. A tudatossg tiszta a kezdetkor, s tiszta a
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
by imagination which is at the root of creation. At all
times consciousness remains the same. To know it
as it is, is realisation and timeless peace.
Q: Is the sense 'I am' real or unreal?
M: Both. It is unreal when we say: 'I am this, I am
that'. It is real when we mean 'I am not this, nor that'. vagyok, n az vagyok. Vals, amikor komolyan azt
The knower comes and goes with the known, and is
transient; but that which knows that it does not
know, which is free of memory and anticipation, is
timeless.
Q: Is 'I am' itself the witness, or are they separate?
M: Without one the other cannot be. Yet they are not
one. It is like the flower and its colour. Without flower
-- no colours; without colour -- the flower remains
unseen. Beyond is the light which on contact with
the flower creates the colour. Realise that your true
nature is that of pure light only, and both the
perceived and the perceiver come and go together.
That which makes both possible, and yet is neither,
is your real being, which means not being a 'this' or
'that', but pure awareness of being and not-being.
When awareness is turned on itself, the feeling is of
not knowing. When it is turned outward, the
knowables come into being. To say: 'I know myself'
is a contradiction in terms for what is 'known' cannot
be 'myself'.
Q: If the self is for ever the unknown, what then is
realised in self-realisation?
M: To know that the known cannot be me nor mine,
is liberation enough. Freedom from self-identification
with a set of memories and habits, the state of
wonder at the infinite reaches of the being, its
inexhaustible creativity and total transcendence, the
absolute fearlessness born from the realisation of
the illusoriness and transiency of every mode of
consciousness -- flow from a deep and inexhaustible
source. To know the source as source and
appearance as appearance, and oneself as the
source only is self-realisation.
Q: On what side is the witness? Is it real or unreal?
M: Nobody can say: I am the witness'. The I am' is
always witnessed. The state of detached awareness
is the witness-consciousness, the 'mirror-mind'. It
rises and sets with its object and thus it is not quite
the real. Whatever its object, it remains the same,
hence it is also real. It partakes of both the real and
366
vgn; a kett kztt szennyezett vlik kpzeler
ltal, amely a teremts gykern van. A tudatossg
egsz id alatt ugyanaz marad. Annak ismerni ami,
ez a megvalsuls s az idtlen bke.
K: Az n vagyok rzse valdi, vagy valtlan?
M: Mind a kett. Valtlan, amikor az mondjuk: n ez
gondoljuk: n nem vagyok ez, sem az.
Az ismer az ismerttel egytt jelenik meg, s tnik
el, s mland; de ami tudja, hogy nem tud, amely
emlktl s vrakozstl mentes, az idtlen.
K: Az n vagyok a tan, vagy ezek klnbznek
egymstl?
M: Egyik a msik nlkl nem ltezhet. De azrt nem
azonosak. Ez olyan, mint a virg, s a szne. Virg
nlkl nincsenek sznek; szn nlkl a virg
ltatlan marad. Felette ott a fny, amely a virggal
rintkezve megteremti a sznt. Ismerd fel, hogy igaz
termszeted a tiszta fnyvel azonos, s mind az
szlelet, mind az szlel egytt jelennek meg, s
tnnek el. Ami mindkettt lehetv teszi, de
mgsem azonos egyikkel sem, az a te valdi
termszeted, amely nem az ez, vagy az vagysgot
jelenti, hanem a lt s nemlt tiszta tudatt. Amikor
a tudat nmagra irnyul, az rzs a nem
megismers. Amikor kifel fordul, megszletnek a
megismerhetk. Azt mondani: n ismerem magam
nellentmonds, mert ami ismert, az nem lehet
nmagam.
K: Ha az n soha nem lehet ismert, akkor mi
valsthat meg az nmegvalsts sorn?
M: Tudni, hogy az ismert nem lehet n, sem az
enym, mr elegend megszabaduls. Egy emlk-
s szoks csomaggal val nazonoststl
mentessg a csoda llapota, amelyben a vgtelen
elri a ltet, annak kimerthetetlen kreativitst, s
totlis transzcendencijt, a tudatossg minden
mdja illuzrikussgnak s tmenetisgnek a
felismersbl megszletett abszolt
flelemnlklisget amely egy mly s
kimerthetetlen forrsbl ered folyam. A forrst
forrsknt, a jelensget jelensgknt, s nmagadat
a forrsknt ismerni, az egyetlen megvalsuls.
K: Melyik oldalon van a tan? Valdi , vagy nem
valdi?
M: Senki nem tudja azt mondani: n vagyok a tan.
Az n vagyok mindig tanstott. A prtatlan tudat
llapota a tan-tudatossg, a tkr-elme.
Objektumaival egytt kel s nyugszik, s gy nem
egszen valdi. Brmi is legyen az objektuma,
vltozatlan marad, ennl fogva valdi is. Rszese
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
the unreal and is therefore a bridge between the
two.
Q: If all happens only to the 'I am', if the 'I am' is the
known and the knower and the knowledge itself,
what does the witness do? Of what use is it?
M: It does nothing and is of no use whatsoever.
Q: Then why do we talk of it?
M: Because it is there. The bridge serves one
purpose only -- to cross over. You don't build houses
on a bridge. The 'I am' looks at things, the witness
sees through them. It sees them as they are --
unreal and transient. To say 'not me, not mine' is the
task of the witness.
Q: Is it the manifested (saguna) by which the
unmanifested (nirguna) is represented?
M: The unmanifested is not represented. Nothing
manifested can represent the unmanifested.
Q: Then why do you talk of it?
M: Because it is my birthplace.
79. Person, Witness and the Supreme
Questioner: We have a long history of drug-taking
behind us, mostly drugs of the consciousness-
expanding variety. They gave us the experience of
other states of consciousness, high and low, and
also the conviction, that drugs are unreliable and, at
best, transitory and, at worst, destructive of
organism and personality. We are in search of better
means for developing consciousness and
transcendence. We want the fruits of our search to
stay with us and enrich our lives, instead of turning
to pale memories and helpless regrets. If by the
spiritual we mean self-investigation and
development, our purpose in coming to India is
definitely spiritual. The happy hippy stage is behind
us; we are serious now and on the move. We know
there is reality to be found, but we do not know how
to find and hold on to it. We need no convincing,
only guidance. Can you help us?
Maharaj: You do not need help, only advice. What
you seek is already in you. Take my own case. I did
nothing for my realisation. My teacher told me that
the reality is within me; I looked within and found it
367
mind a valdinak, mind a nem valdinak, s ezrt a
kett kztti hd szerept tlti be.
K: Ha minden csupn az n vagyok szmra
trtnik, ha az n vagyok azonos az ismerttel, a
megismervel, s az ismerettel, akkor mit csinl a
tan? Mi haszna neki?
M: Semmit nem csinl, s semmilyen haszna nincs.
K: Akkor mirt beszlnk rla?
M: Mert ltezik. A hd egyetlen clt szolgl csupn
hogy tmenjenek rajta. Ne pts hzakat a hdra. Az
n vagyok nzi a dolgokat, a tan beljk lt. gy
ltja azokat, ahogyan vannak valtlannak, s
mulandnak. Azt mondani, hogy nem n, nem az
enym, a tan feladata.
K: A megnyilvnult (saguna) az, ami ltal a
megnyilvnulatlan (nirguna) megjelentsre kerl?
M: A megnyilvnulatlan nem kerl megjelentsre.
Semmilyen megnyilvnult nem tudja megjelenteni a
megnyilvnulatlant.
K: Akkor mirt beszlnk rla?
M: Mert az az n szletsi helyem.
79. Szemly, tan s a Legfelsbb
Krdez: Rgta drogozunk, tbbnyire klnfle
tudat tgt szereket szedtnk. Ezek a drogok ms
tudatllapotok lmnyt nyjtottk, amelyek hol
felemelk, hol alantasok, s azt a meggyzdst is,
hogy a drogok megbzhatatlanok, s legjobb
esetben tmeneti hatsak, a legrosszabb esetben
krostjk a szervezetet, s a szemlyisget. Jobb
eszkzket szeretnnk tallni a tudatossg
fejlesztsre, s meghaladsra. Azt akarjuk, hogy
keressnk gymlcsei velnk maradjanak, s
gazdagtsk letnket, az emlkezet eltompulsa s
gymoltalan sajnlkozsok helyett. Ha a
spiritualitson n-kutatst s n-fejlesztst rtnk,
akkor Indiba jvetelnk clja hatrozottan
spiritulis. A boldog hippi llapot mr mgttnk;
megkomolyodtunk, s az tra lptnk. Tudjuk, a
valsgot kell, hogy megtalljuk, de nem tudjuk,
hogyan keressk, s tartsuk meg azt. Nem
meggyzsre van szksgnk, csak tmutatsra.
Tudnl neknk segteni?
Maharaj: Nem segtsgre van szksgetek, csupn
tancsra. Amit kerestek, az mr bennetek van.
Vegyk az n esetemet. n semmit sem tettem a
megvalsulsomrt. Tantm azt mondta, a valsg
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
there, exactly as my teacher told me. To see reality
is as simple as to see one's face in a mirror. Only
the mirror must be clear and true. A quiet mind,
undistorted by desires and fears, free from ideas
and opinions, clear on all the levels, is needed to
reflect the reality. Be clear and quiet -- alert and
detached, all else will happen by itself.
Q: You had to make your mind clear and quiet K: Elmdet meg kellett tiszttanod, s csendess
before you could realise the truth. How did you do it? kellett tenned, mieltt megvalsthattad volna az
valsgot. Hogyan csinltad?
M: I did nothing. It just happened. I lived my life,
attending to my family's needs. Nor did my Guru do
it. It just happened, as he said it will.
Q: Things do not just happen. There must be a
cause for everything.
M: All that happens is the cause of all that happens.
Causes are numberless; the idea of a sole cause is
an illusion.
Q: You must have been doing something specific --
some meditation or Yoga. How can you say that
realisation will happen on its own?
M: Nothing specific. I just lived my life.
Q: I am amazed.
M: So was I. But what was there to be amazed at?
My teacher's words came true. So what? He knew
me better than I knew myself, that is all. Why search
for causes? In the very beginning I was giving some
attention and time to the sense 'I am', but only in the
beginning. Soon after my Guru died, I lived on. His
words proved to be true. That is all. It is all one
process. You tend to separate things in time and
then look for causes.
Q: What is your work now? What are you doing?
M: You imagine being and doing as identical. It is
not so. The mind and the body move and change
and cause other minds and bodies to move and
change and that is called doing, action. I see that it
is in the nature of action to create further action like
fire that continues by burning. I neither act nor cause
others to act; I am timelessly aware of what is going
on.
Q: In your mind, or also in other minds?
368
bennem van; befel tekintettem, s megtalltam ott,
pontosan gy, ahogy a tantm nekem elmondta. A
valsgot megltni olyan knny, mint az arcodat a
tkrben megltni. Csak a tkr tiszta s igazi
legyen. Vgyaktl s flelmektl torztatlan, idektl
s vlemnyektl mentes, minden szinten tiszta,
csendes elme szksges a valsg tkrzsre.
Lgy tiszta s csendes ber s prtatlan, s
minden ms meg fog trtnni nmagtl.
M: Nem csinltam semmit. Csak gy megtrtnt.
ltem az letemet, csaldom szksgleteirl
gondoskodva. Gurum sem csinlta. ppen gy
trtnt, ahogy megmondta.
K: A dolgok nem trtnnek csak gy. Muszj, hogy
oka legyen mindennek.
M: Minden, ami trtnik az oka mindennek, ami
trtnik. Az okok megszmllhatatlanok; az egyedli
ok ideja illzi.
K: Kellett, hogy valami klnlegeset csinlj
valamilyen meditcit, vagy Yogt. Hogy mondhatsz
olyat, hogy a megvalsuls magtl fog
bekvetkezni?
M: Semmi klnleges. Csak ltem az letem.
K: Meg vagyok lepdve,
M: n is meg voltam. De min kellett lepdjek?
Tantm szavai beigazoldtak. Na s? jobban
ismert engem, mint ahogy n ismertem nmagam,
ez minden. Minek okokat keresni? A legelejn
fordtottam bizonyos figyelmet s idt az n vagyok
rzsre, de csak az elejn. Rviddel Gurum halla
utn megltem. Szavai beigazoldtak. Ez minden.
Mindez egy folyamat. Hajlamos vagy r, hogy
idben elklntsd a dolgokat, hogy azutn okokat
keress.
K: Most mi a munkd? Mit csinlsz?
M: Azt kpzeled, hogy a lt s a tevkenysg
azonosak. Nem gy van. Az elme s a test
mozognak, s vltoznak, s okai ms elmk
mozgsnak s vltozsnak, s ezt nevezik
cselekvsnek, akcinak. gy ltom, hogy az
akcinak az a termszete, hogy tovbbi akcikat
hoz ltre, hasonlan a tzhz, amely izzsban
folytatdik. n nem cselekszem, s nem ksztetek
mst sem cselekvsre; n idtlenl tudatban
vagyok annak, ami zajlik.
K: A te elmdben, vagy ms elmkben is?
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
M: There is only one mind, which swarms with
ideas; 'I am this, I am that, this is mine, that is mine'.
I am not the mind, never was, nor shall be.
Q: How did the mind come into being?
M: The world consists of matter, energy and
intelligence. They manifest themselves in many
ways. Desire and imagination create the world and
intelligence reconciles the two and causes a sense
of harmony and peace. To me it all happens; I am
aware, yet unaffected.
Q: You cannot be aware, yet unaffected. There is a
contradiction in terms. Perception is change. Once
you have experienced a sensation, memory will not
allow you to return to the former state.
M: Yes, what is added to memory cannot be erased
easily. But it can surely be done and, in fact, I am
doing it all the time. Like a bird on its wings, I leave
no footprints.
Q: Has the witness name and form, or is it beyond
these?
M: The witness is merely a point in awareness. It
has no name and form. It is like the reflection of the
sun in a drop of dew. The drop of dew has name
and form, but the little point of light is caused by the
sun. The clearness and smoothness of the drop is a
necessary condition but not sufficient by itself.
Similarly clarity and silence of the mind are
necessary for the reflection of reality to appear in the
mind, but by themselves they are not sufficient.
There must be reality beyond it. Because reality is
timelessly present, the stress is on the necessary
conditions.
Q: Can it happen that the mind is clear and quiet
and yet no reflection appears?
M: There is destiny to consider. The unconscious is
in the grip of destiny, it is destiny, in fact. One may
have to wait. But however heavy may be the hand of
destiny, it can be lifted by patience and self-control.
Integrity and purity remove the obstacles and the
vision of reality appears in the mind.
Q: How does one gain self-control? I am so weak-
minded.
M: Understand first that you are not the person you
believe yourself to be. What you think yourself to be
is mere suggestion or imagination. You have no
parents, you were not born, nor will you die. Either
369
M: Csupn egy elme van, ami hemzseg az idektl;
n ez vagyok, n az vagyok, ez az enym, az az
enym. n nem az elme vagyok, nem voltam az, s
nem is leszek soha.
K: Hogyan szletett az elme?
M: A vilg anyagbl, energibl s intelligencibl
ll. Ezek sokfle mdon nyilvntjk meg magukat. A
vgy s a kpzelet ltrehozzk a vilgot, s az
intelligencia kibkti a kettt, s elidzi a harmnia
s a bke rzst. Szmomra ez mind megtrtnik;
n tudatos vagyok, mgis rzketlen.
K: Nem lehetsz tudatos, mgis rzketlen. Ezek
ellenttes kifejezsek. Az szlels, vltozs. Amikor
tapasztalsz egy rzetet, az emlkezet nem fogja
engedni, hogy visszatrj a korbbi llapotodba.
M: Igen, ami az emlkezethez hozzaddott, az
nem knnyen trlhet. De biztos, hogy megtehet,
ami azt illeti, n ezt csinlom szakadatlanul. Akr a
szrnyal madr, n sem hagyok htra
lbnyomokat.
K: Rendelkezik a tan nvvel s formval, vagy tl
van ezeken?
M: A tan egy pont csupn a tudatossgban. Nincs
neve s formja. Ez a napfny harmatcseppben val
tkrzdshez hasonlt. A harmatcseppnek neve
s formja van, de a kis fnypontot a nap idzi el.
A csepp tisztasga s sima fellete szksges
felttel, de nmagban nem elg. Hasonlkppen,
az elme vilgossgra s csendjre van szksg,
hogy a valsg tkrzse megjelenjen az elmben,
de nmagukban nem elegendk. Azokon tl ott kell,
hogy legyen a valsg. Mivel a valsg idtlenl
jelen van, a nehzsg a szksges felttelekben
van.
K: Elfordulhat, hogy az elme tiszta s csendes, s
mgsem jelenik meg tkrzds?
M: Tekintetbe kell venni a sorsot. A tudattalan a
vgzet szortsban van, ez a sors, alapjban vve.
Lehet, hogy az embernek vrnia kell. De brmilyen
slyos is a sors keze, trelemmel, s nkontrollal
flemelhet. A teljessg s a tisztasg eltvoltjk az
akadlyokat, s a valsg ltvnya megjelenik az
elmben.
K: Hogy tesz szert az ember nkontrollra? n olyan
erlytelen vagyok.
M: Azt rtsd meg elbb, hogy te nem a szemly
vagy, akinek hiszed magad. Aminek hiszed
magadat, az puszta szuggeszti, kpzelds.
Nincsenek szleid, nem szlettl, meghalni sem
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
trust me when I tell you so, or arrive to it by study
and investigation. The way of total faith is quick, the
other is slow but steady. Both must be tested in
action. Act on what you think is true -- this is the way
to truth.
Q: Are deserving the truth and destiny one and the
same?
M: Yes, both are in the unconscious. Conscious
merit is mere vanity. Consciousness is always of
obstacles; when there are no obstacles, one goes
beyond it.
Q: Will the understanding that I am not the body give K: A megrts, hogy nem a test vagyok, meg fogja
me the strength of character needed for self-control? adni az nkontrollhoz szksges jellem ert?
M: When you know that you are neither body nor
mind, you will not be swayed by them. You will
follow truth, wherever it takes you, and do what
needs be done, whatever the price to pay.
Q: Is action essential for self-realisation?
M: For realisation, understanding is essential. Action M: A megvalsulshoz megrts nlklzhetetlen. A
is only incidental. A man of steady understanding
will not refrain from action. Action is the test of truth. embere nem fog a cselekvstl tartzkodni. A
Q: Are tests needed?
M: If you do not test yourself all the time, you will not
be able to distinguish between reality and fancy.
Observation and close reasoning help to some
extent, but reality is paradoxical. How do you know
that you have realised unless you watch your
thoughts and feelings, words and actions and
wonder at the changes occurring in you without your
knowing why and how? It is exactly because they
are so surprising that you know that they are real.
The foreseen and expected is rarely true.
Q: How does the person come into being?
M: Exactly as a shadow appears when light is
intercepted by the body, so does the person arise
when pure self-awareness is obstructed by the 'I-
am-the-body' idea. And as the shadow changes
shape and position according to the lay of the land,
so does the person appear to rejoice and suffer, rest
and toil, find and lose according to the pattern of
destiny. When the body is no more, the person
disappears completely without return, only the
witness remains and the Great Unknown.
The witness is that which says 'I know'. The person
370
fogsz. Vagy elhiszed nekem, amit mondok, vagy
tanulssal, s kutatssal jutsz el odig. A teljes hit
tja gyors, a msik lass, de tarts. Mindkettt
cselekvs sorn kell ellenrizni. Cselekedj aszerint,
amit igaznak hiszel ez az igazsghoz vezet t.
K: Az igazsg s a sors kirdemlse egy s
ugyanaz?
M: Igen, mindkett a tudattalanban van. A tudatos
rdem puszta hisg. A tudattalan mindig az
akadlyok; amikor nincsenek akadlyok, az ember
tllp rajtuk ezeket.
M: Amikor tudod, hogy sem a test, sem az elme nem
vagy, azoknak nem lesz hatalma fltted. Kvetni
fogod az igazsgot, akrhov vezet, s csinlni
fogod, amit kell, brmilyen rat kell fizetni.
K: Nlklzhetetlen cselekedni az
nmegvalstshoz?
cselekvs velejrja csupn. A szilrd megrts
cselekvs az igazsg ellenrzse.
K: Szksg van ellenrzsekre?
M: Ha nem ellenrzd magad szakadatlanul, nem
fogsz tudni klnbsget tenni valsg s kpzelet
kztt. Megfigyels s logikus rvels segtenek
bizonyos mrtkig, de a valsg paradox. Honnan
tudod, hogy megvalsultl, hacsak onnan nem, hogy
szemlled gondolataidat, rzseidet, szavaidat s
cselekedeteidet, s eltndsz a vltozsokon,
amelyek vgbemennek benned, anlkl, hogy
tudnd a mirtet, s a hogyant? Pontosan azrt
olyan meglepek, mert tudod, hogy valdiak. Az
elre ltott, s elvrt ritkn valdi.
K: Hogyan szletik a szemly?
M: Ahogy a fny tjban ll testnek rnyka
keletkezik, pontosan gy keletkezik a szemly,
amikor a tiszta n-tudatossgot elzrja az n-
vagyok-a-test idea. s ahogy az rnyk az alakjt
s helyzett a terepviszonyoknak megfelelen
vltoztatja, gy mutatkozik a szemly rvendeznek
s szenvednek, nyugvnak s fradoznak,
tallnak s vesztnek, a sors mintzatnak
megfelelen. Amikor a test megsznik ltezni, a
szemly teljesen eltnik, a visszatrs lehetsge
nlkl, a tan marad csupn, s a Nagy Ismeretlen.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
says 'I do'. Now, to say 'I know' is not untrue -- it is
merely limited. But to say 'I do' is altogether false,
because there is nobody who does; all happens by
itself, including the idea of being a doer.
Q: Then what is action?
M: The universe is full of action, but there is no
actor. There are numberless persons small and big
and very big, who, through identification, imagine
themselves as acting, but it does not change the fact
that the world of action (mahadakash) is one single
whole in which all depends on, and affects all. The
stars affect us deeply and we affect the stars. Step
back from action to consciousness, leave action to
the body and the mind; it is their domain. Remain as
pure witness, till even witnessing dissolves in the
Supreme.
Imagine a thick jungle full of heavy timber. A plank is
shaped out of the timber and a small pencil to write
on it. The witness reads the writing and knows that
while the pencil and the plank are distantly related to
the jungle, the writing has nothing to do with it. It is
totally super-imposed and its disappearance just
does not matter. The dissolution of personality is
followed always by a sense of great relief, as if a
heavy burden has fallen off.
Q: When you say, I am in the state beyond the
witness, what is the experience that makes you say
so? In what way does it differ from the stage of
being a witness only?
M: It is like washing printed cloth. First the design
fades, then the background and in the end the cloth
is plain white. The personality gives place to the
witness, then the witness goes and pure awareness
remains. The cloth was white in the beginning and is
white in the end; the patterns and colours just
happened -- for a time.
Q: Can there be awareness without an object of
awareness?
M: Awareness with an object we called witnessing.
When there is also self-identification with the object,
caused by desire or fear, such a state is called a
person. In reality there is only one state; when
distorted by self-identification it is called a person,
when coloured with the sense of being, it is the
witness; when colourless and limitless, it is called
the Supreme.
Q: I find that I am always restless, longing, hoping,
seeking, finding, enjoying, abandoning, searching
371
A tan az, ami azt mondja tudom. A szemly azt
mondja cselekszem'. Na mr most, azt mondani,
hogy tudom nem valtlan csupn korltozott. De
azt mondani, hogy cselekszem teljes tveds, mert
senki nincs, aki cselekszik; minden magtl trtnik,
belertve a cselekv idejt is.
K: Akkor mi a cselekvs?
M: Az univerzum tele van cselekvssel, de nincs
cselekv. Szmtalan kicsi, nagy, s nagyon nagy
szemly van, akik azonosuls rvn, cselekvnek
kpzelik magukat, de ez nem vltoztatja meg a
tnyt, hogy a cselekvs vilga (mahadakash)
egyetlen egsz, amelyben minden fgg mindentl,
s hat mindenre. A csillagok mlysges hatssal
vannak rnk, s mi hatunk a csillagokra. Lpj vissza
a cselekvsbl a tudatossgba, hagyd a cselekvst
a testre, s az elmre; ez az hatkrk. Maradj a
tiszta tan, mgnem a tan is felolvad a
Legfelsbben.
Kpzelj el egy sr dzsungelt, hatalmas fkkal tele.
A fbl lehet kialaktani palnkot is, s ceruzt is,
amivel rni lehet r. A tan olvassa az rst, s tudja,
hogy mg a ceruza s a palnk tvoli rokonai a
dzsungelnek, az rsnak semmi kze hozz. Ez egy
teljesen rhelyezett dolog, s eltnse mg csak
nem is problma. A szemly megsemmislst
mindig egy nagy megknnyebbls rzse kveti,
mintha egy nagy tehertl szabadulnl meg.
K: Amikor azt mondod, n a tann tli llapotban
vagyok, akkor ezt milyen tapasztalat alapjn
mondod? Miben klnbzik az a tan llapottl?
M: Ez ahhoz hasonlt, mint amikor mints szvetet
mosol. Elszr a minta halvnyodik el, majd az
alapszn, s a vgn a szvet tiszta fehr lesz. A
szemlyisg tadja a helyt a tannak, majd a tan
tvozik, s csak a tiszta tudatossg marad. A szvet
elszr fehr volt, s a vgn is fehr; a mintk s
sznek csak megtrtntek egy idre.
K: Ltezhet tudatossg a tudatossg objektuma
nlkl?
M: A tudatossgot az objektummal nevezzk
tannak. Amikor ltrejn az objektummal az
nazonosuls is, amelyet rm s fjdalom okoz, az
ilyen llapotot nevezzk szemlynek. Valjban
csak egyetlen llapot van; amikor ez az n-
azonosuls ltal eltorztsra kerl, szemlynek
nevezzk, amikor besznezi a lt rzse, akkor a
tan; amikor szntelen s korltlan, akkor hvjuk a
Legfelsbbnek.
K: gy ltom, ismt lland nyugtalansg,
remnykeds, keress, talls, lvezs, elvets,
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
again. What is it that keeps me on the boil?
M: You are really in search of yourself, without
knowing it. You are love-longing for the love-worthy,
the perfectly lovable. Due to ignorance you are
looking for it in the world of opposites and
contradictions. When you find it within, your search
will be over.
Q: There will be always this sorrowful world to
contend with.
M: Don't anticipate. You do not know. It is true that
all manifestation is in the opposites. Pleasure and
pain, good and bad, high and low, progress and
regress, rest and strife they all come and go
together -- and as long as there is a world, its
contradictions will be there. There may also be
periods of perfect harmony, of bliss and beauty, but
only for a time. What is perfect, returns to the source
of all perfection and the opposites play on.
Q: How am I to reach perfection?
M: Keep quiet. Do your work in the world, but
inwardly keep quiet. Then all will come to you. Do
not rely on your work for realisation. It may profit
others, but not you. Your hope lies in keeping silent
in your mind and quiet in your heart. Realised
people are very quiet.
80. Awareness
Questioner: Does it take time to realise the Self, or
time cannot help to realise? Is self-realisation a
matter of time only, or does it depend on factors
other than time?
Maharaj: All waiting is futile. To depend on time to
solve our problems is self-delusion. The future, left
to itself merely repeats the past. Change can only
happen now, never in the future.
Q: What brings about a change?
M: With crystal clarity see the need of change. This
is all.
Q: Does self-realisation happen in matter, or
beyond? Is it not an experience depending on the
body and the mind for its occurrence?
372
majd keress jellemez. Mi az, ami forrsban tart
engem?
M: Valjban nmagadat keresed, anlkl, hogy
tudnl rla. Epedve vgysz a szeretetre mltra, a
tkletes kedvesre. A tudatlansg miatt keresed az
ellenttek s ellentmondsok vilgban. Amikor
megtallod bell, keressed vget r.
K: Mindig itt lesz ez a szomor vilg, amellyel
harcolni kell.
M: Ne vrd el. Nem tudod. Az az igazsg, hogy
minden megnyilvnuls az ellenttekben ll. rm
s fjdalom, j s rossz, magas s alacsony,
halads s visszaess, nyugalom s trekvs, mind
egytt jelenik meg s tvozik s amg a vilg
ltezik, addig ellentmondsai is lesznek neki.
Lehetnek olyan peridusok, amelyekre a tkletes
harmnia, mennyei boldogsg s szpsg a
jellemz, de csak egy ideig. Ami tkletes, visszatr
a minden tkletessg forrsba, s az ellenttek
jtka folytatdik.
K: Hogyan rhetem el a tkletessget?
M: Maradj csendes. Vgezd a munkdat a vilgban,
de belsleg maradj csendes. Akkor minden el fog
jnni hozzd. Ne a megvalsulsrt vgzett
munkdban bzz. Msok szmra nyeresget
jelenthet, de szmodra nem. A te remnyed abban
ll, hogy elmdben csendes, s szvedben nyugodt
maradsz. A megvalsult emberek nagyon
nyugodtak.
80. Tudat
Krdez: Az n megvalstshoz id kell, vagy az
id nem tudja segteni a megvalsulst? Az n-
megvalsts csupn id krdse, vagy az idn kvl
ms tnyezktl is fgg?
Maharaj: Mindenfle vrakozs haszontalan.
Problmink megoldst idtl fggnek tekinteni
nmts. A jv csupn a mltat ismtli. Vltozs
csak most trtnhet, soha nem a jvben.
K: Mi idz el vltozst?
M: Kristly tisztasggal lsd a vltozs
szksgessgt. Ez minden.
K: Az n-megvalsuls az anyagban trtnik, vagy
azon tl? Nem a testtel s elmvel trtntek
megtapasztalsa?
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
M: All experience is illusory, limited and temporal.
Expect nothing from experience. Realisation by itself
is not an experience, though it may lead to a new
dimension of experiences. Yet the new experiences,
however interesting, are not more real than the old.
Definitely realisation is not a new experience. It is
the discovery of the timeless factor in every
experience. It is awareness, which makes
experience possible. Just like in all the colours light
is the colourless factor, so in every experience
awareness is present, yet it is not an experience.
Q: If awareness is not an experience, how can it be
realised?
M: Awareness is ever there. It need not be realised.
Open the shutter of the mind, and it will be flooded
with light.
Q: What is matter?
M: What you do not understand is matter.
Q: Science understands matter.
M: Science merely pushes back the frontiers of our
ignorance.
Q: And what is nature?
M: The totality of conscious experiences is nature.
As a conscious self you are a part of nature. As
awareness, you are beyond. Seeing nature as mere
consciousness is awareness.
Q: Are there levels of awareness?
M: There are levels in consciousness, but not in
awareness. It is of one block, homogeneous. Its
reflection in the mind is love and understanding.
There are levels of clarity in understanding and
intensity in love, but not in their source. The source
is simple and single, but its gifts are infinite. Only do
not take the gifts for the source. Realise yourself as
the source and not as the river; that is all.
Q: I am the river too.
M: Of course, you are. As an 'I am' you are the river,
flowing between the banks of the body. But you are
also the source and the ocean and the clouds in the
sky. Wherever there is life and consciousness, you
are. Smaller than the smallest, bigger than the
biggest, you are, while all else appears.
Q: The sense of being and the sense of living -- are
they one and the same, or different?
373
M: Minden tapasztals illuzrikus, korltozott, s
idleges. Ne remlj semmit a tapasztalstl. A
megvalsuls nmagban nem egy megtapasztals,
habr a tapasztalsoknak egy j dimenzijhoz
vezethet. Mgis, az j tapasztalsok, brmennyire is
rdekesek, nem valsgosabbak, mint a rgiek.
Ktsgtelen, hogy a megvalsuls nem egy j
tapasztals. Felfedezse a minden tapasztalsban
benne rejl idtlen elemnek. Ez a tudat, amely a
tapasztalst lehetv teszi. Akrcsak az sszes
sznben a fny a szntelen elem, gy van minden
tapasztalsban jelen a tudat, s az mgsem
tapasztals.
K: Ha a tudat nem tapasztals, akkor hogyan
realizlhat?
M: A tudat rkk jelen van. Nyisd ki a spalettit, s
az elmt el fogja rasztani a fny.
K: Mi az anyag?
M: Amit nem rtesz, az anyag.
K: A tudomny rti az anyagot.
M: A tudomny csupn kijjebb tolja tudatlansgunk
hatrait.
K: s mi a termszet?
M: A tudatos tapasztalsok sszessge a termszet.
Mint tudatos n, te a termszet rsze vagy. Mint
tudat, azon tl vagy. A termszetet puszta
tudatossgknt ltni, tudat.
K: Vannak szintjei a tudatnak?
M: A tudatossgnak vannak szintjei, de a tudatnak
nincsenek. A tudat egyetlen homogn tmb.
Elmebeli tkrkpe szeretet s rtelem. Az rtelem
vilgossgnak, s a szeretet erssgnek vannak
szintjei, de forrsuknak nincsenek. A forrs
egyszer, s egyetlen, de ajndkai vgtelenek. A
forrsknt ismerd fel magad, s ne a folyknt; ez
minden.
K: A foly is n vagyok.
M: Termszetesen, te vagy. n vagyok-knt te
vagy a foly, amely a test partjai kztt folyik. De te
vagy a forrs is, s az cen, s a felhk az gen.
Brhol, ahol let s tudatossg van, az te vagy. A
legkisebbnl kisebb, a legnagyobbnl nagyobb, az
te vagy, mg minden ms csak jelensg.
K: A lt rzse, s az let rzse ugyanazok, vagy
klnbzk?
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
M: The identity in space creates one, the continuity
in time creates the other.
Q: You said once that the seer, seeing and the seen
are one single thing, not three. To me the three are
separate. I do not doubt your words, only I do not
understand.
M: Look closely and you will see that the seer and
the seen appear only when there is seeing. They are
attributes of seeing. When you say 'I am seeing this',
'I am' and 'this' come with seeing, not before. You
cannot have an unseen 'this' nor an unseeing 'I am'.
Q: I can say: 'I do not see'.
M: The 'I am seeing this' has become 'l am seeing
my not seeing', or 'I am seeing darkness'. The
seeing remains. In the triplicity: the known, knowing
and the knower, only the knowing is a fact. The 'I
am' and 'this' are doubtful. Who knows? What is
known? There is no certainty, except that there is
knowing.
Q: Why am I sure of knowing, but not of the knower? K: Mirt legyek biztos a tudsban, azonban a
tudban nem?
M: Knowing is a reflection of your true nature along
with being and loving. The knower and the known
are added by the mind. It is in the nature of the mind
to create a subject-object duality, where there is
none.
Q: What is the cause of desire and fear?
M: Obviously, the memory of past pains and
pleasures. There is no great mystery about it.
Conflict arises only when desire and fear refer to the
same object.
Q: How to put an end to memory?
M: It is neither necessary, nor possible. Realise that
all happens in consciousness and you are the root,
the source, the foundation of consciousness. The
world is but a succession of experiences and you
are what makes them conscious, and yet remain
beyond all experience. It is like the heat, the flame
and the burning wood. The heat maintains the flame,
the flame consumes the wood. Without heat there
would be neither flame nor fuel. Similarly, without
awareness there would be no consciousness, nor
life, which transforms matter into a vehicle of
consciousness.
Q: You maintain that without me there would be no
world, and that the world and my knowledge of the
world are identical. Science has come to a quite
different conclusion: the world exists as something
374
M: A trbeli azonossg teremti az egyiket, s az
idbeli folytonossg a msikat.
K: Mondtad egy zben, hogy a lt, a lts s a
ltott egyetlen dolog, nem hrom. Szmomra hrom
klnll dolog. Nem vonom ktsgbe a szavaidat,
csak nem rtem.
M: Ha gondosan megvizsglod rjssz, hogy a lt
s a ltott csak lts esetn jelennek meg.
Tulajdonsgai a ltsnak. Amikor azt mondod, n
ezt ltom, akkor az n s az ez a ltssal jnnek
ltre, nem eltte. Nem lehet sem egy nem ltott ez-
ed, sem egy nem lt n-ed.
K: Azt is mondhatom: n nem ltom.
M: Az n ltom ezt-bl n ltom a nem ltsomat,
vagy n ltom a sttsget vlik. A lts
megmarad. A tudott, a tuds s a tud
hrmassgban csak a tuds ltezik tnyszeren.
Az n s az ez bizonytalan dolgok. Ki tud? Mi a
tudott? Ezek nem biztos tnyek, csak akkor, ha ott
van a tuds.
M: A tuds a te igaz termszeted tkrzdse, a
lten s a szereteten kvl. A tud s a tudott az
elme ltal kerl hozzadsra. Az elmnek az a
termszete, hogy szubjektum-orientlt dualitst hoz
ltre, ahol az nincs.
K: Mi az oka a vgynak s a flelemnek?
M: Nyilvnvalan a mlt emlke fjdalmat, s
rmet okoz. Nem olyan nagy a rejtly ezzel
kapcsolatban. Konfliktus akkor merl fel csak, ha az
rm s fjdalom trgya ugyanaz.
K: Hogyan lehet vget vetni az emlkeknek?
M: Ez nem szksges, s nem is lehetsges. Ismerd
fel, hogy minden a tudatossgban trtnik, s te
vagy a gykere, a forrsa, a tudatossg alapja. A
vilg csak tapasztalatok egymsutnisga, s te az
vagy, ami azokat tudatoss teszi, s mgis minden
tapasztalaton tl marad. Olyan ez, mint a h, a lng,
s az g fa. A h fenntartja a lngot, a lng
felemszti a ft. H nlkl nem lenne se lng, se
tzelanyag. Hasonlkppen, tudat nlkl nem
lenne se tudatossg, se let, amely az anyagot a
tudatossg hordozjv alaktja.
K: Te azt kpviseled, hogy nlklem nem lenne
vilg, s, hogy a vilg s a vilgrl val ismeretem
tudsom azonosak. A tudomny teljesen eltr
kvetkeztetsre jutott: a vilg konkrt s folytonos
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
concrete and continuous, while I am a by-product of
biological evolution of the nervous system, which is
primarily not so much a seat of consciousness, as a
mechanism of survival as individual and species.
Yours is altogether a subjective view, while science
tries to describe everything in objective terms. Is this
contradiction inevitable?
M: The confusion is apparent and purely verbal.
What is, is. It is neither subjective nor objective.
Matter and mind are not separate, they are aspects
of one energy. Look at the mind as a function of
matter and you have science; look at matter as the
product of the mind and you have religion.
Q: But what is true? What comes first, mind or
matter?
M: Neither comes first. For neither appears alone.
Matter is the shape, mind is the name. Together
they make the world. Pervading and transcending is
Reality, pure being -- awareness -- bliss, your very
essence.
Q: All I know is the stream of consciousness, an
endless succession of events. The river of time
flows, bringing and carrying away relentlessly.
Transformation of the future into past is going on all
the time.
M: Are you not the victim of your language? You
speak about the flow of time, as if you were
stationary. But the events you have witnessed
yesterday somebody else may see tomorrow. It is
you who are in movement and not time. Stop moving
and time will cease.
Q: What does it mean -- time will cease?
M: Past and future will merge in the eternal now.
Q: But what does it mean in actual experience? How K: De mit jelent ez a valsgos tapasztalat szerint?
do you know that for you time has ceased? Honnan tudod, hogy szmodra az id megsznt?
M: It may mean that past and future do not matter
any more. It may also mean that all that happened
and will happen becomes an open book to be read
at will.
Q: I can imagine a sort of cosmic memory,
accessible with some training. But how can the
future be known? The unexpected is inevitable.
M: What is unexpected on one level may be certain
to happen, when seen from a higher level. After all,
we are within the limits of the mind. In reality nothing
happens, there is no past nor future; all appears and
nothing is.
Q: What does it mean, nothing is? Do you turn
375
valamiknt ltezik, mg n az idegrendszer biolgiai
evolcijnak a mellktermke vagyok, amely
elssorban nem annyira a tudatossg szkhelye,
mint inkbb az egyn s a faj tllsnek a
mechanizmusa. A te nzeted teljesen szubjektv,
mg a tudomny mindent objektv mdon prbl meg
lerni. Ez egy szksgszer elkerlhetetlen?
M: Az ellentt ltszlagos, s verblis csupn. Ami
van, az van. Sem nem szubjektv, sem nem objektv.
Anyag s elme nem nllak, aspektusai csupn
egyazon energinak. Tekints az elmt, mint az
anyag egy funkcijt, s tudomnyod van; tekintsd
az anyagot, mint az elme termkt, s vallsod van.
K: De mi az igazsg? Melyik az elsdleges, az elme,
vagy anyag?
M: Egyik sem elsdleges. Mert egyik sem jelenik
meg nmagban. Az anyag a forma, az elme a nv.
Egytt alkotjk a vilgot. A mindent betlt s
meghalad Valsg, a tiszta lt tudat dv a
valdi lnyeged.
K: Nekem csak a tudatfolyamrl, s az esemnyek
vgtelen egymsutnisgrl van tudomsom. Az
id folyja knyrtelen ramlssal hozza s hordja
el a dolgokat. A jv mltt alakulsa zajlik
szakadatlanul.
M: Nem vagy te a szavak ldozata? gy beszlsz
az id folysrl, mintha te lland lennl. De az
esemnyeket, aminek tegnap tanja voltl, holnap
valaki ms lthatja. Te vagy az, ami mozgsban
van, s nem az id. lltsd le a mozgst, s az id
megsznik.
K: Mit jelent az, hogy az id meg fog sznni?
M: Mlt s jv ssze fog olvadni az rk mostban.
M: Jelentheti, hogy mlt s jv nem szmtanak
tbb. Azt is jelentheti, hogy minden, ami trtnt, s
trtnni fog, tetszs szerint olvashat, nyitott
knyvv vlik.
K: El tudok kpzelni egyfajta kozmikus memrit,
amely elrhet valamilyen trninggel. De hogyan
ismerhet meg a jv? A vratlan elkerlhetetlen.
M: Ami az egyik szinten vratlan, lehet, hogy egy
magasabb szintrl nzve biztosan megtrtnik.
Vgl is, az elme korltai kztt vagyunk. Valjban
nem trtnik semmi, nincs mlt s jv; minden
megjelenik, s semmi nincs.
K: Mit jelent az, hogy semmi nincs? ress vlsz,
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
blank, or go to sleep? Or do you dissolve the world
and keep us all in abeyance, until we are brought
back to life at the next flicker of your thought?
M: Oh, no, it is not that bad. The world of mind and
matter, of names and shapes, continues, but it does
not matter to me at all. It is like having a shadow. It
is there -- following me wherever I go, but not
hindering me in any way. It remains a world of
experiences, but not of names and forms related to
me by desires and fears. The experiences are
qualityless, pure experiences, if I may say so. I call
them experiences for the lack of a better word. They
are like the waves on the surface of the ocean, the
ever-present, but not affecting its peaceful power.
Q: You mean to say an experience can be
nameless, formless, undefined?
M: In the beginning all experience is such. It is only
desire and fear, born of memory, that give it name
and form and separate it from other experiences. It
is not a conscious experience, for it is not in
opposition to other experiences, yet it is an
experience all the same.
Q: If it is not conscious, why talk about it?
M: Most of your experiences are unconscious. The
conscious ones are very few. You are unaware of
the fact because to you only the conscious ones
count. Become aware of the unconscious.
Q: Can one be aware of the unconscious? How is it
done?
M: Desire and fear are the obscuring and distorting
factors. When mind is free of them the unconscious
becomes accessible.
Q: Does it mean that the unconscious becomes
conscious?
M: It is rather the other way round. The conscious
becomes one with the unconscious. The distinction
ceases, whichever way you look at it.
Q: I am puzzled. How can one be aware and yet
unconscious?
M: Awareness is not limited to consciousness. It is
of all that is. Consciousness is of duality. There is no
duality in awareness. It is one single block of pure
cognition. In the same way one can talk of the pure
being and pure creation -- nameless, formless, silent
and yet absolutely real, powerful, effective. Their
being indescribable does not affect them in the least.
376
vagy elalszol? Vagy feloldod a vilgot, s hatlyon
kvl helyezel bennnket, amg gondolkodsod
kvetkez rezzensekor vissza nem hozol az
letbe?
M: , nem, a helyzet nem ilyen rossz. Az elme,
anyag, nevek, s formk vilga folytatdik, de az
egyltaln nem lnyeges szmomra. Ez olyan, mint
az rnyk. Ott van kvet engem, akrhov
megyek, de semmilyen mdon nem gtol. A
tapasztalatok vilga megmarad, de a vgyak s
flelmek ltal hozzm kapcsold nevek s formk
vilga nem. A tapasztalatok minsg nlkli, tiszta
tapasztalatok, ha lehet gy mondani. Jobb sz hjn
nevezem ket tapasztalatoknak. Olyanok, mint
hullmok az cen felsznn, amelyek mindig jelen
vannak, de nincsenek hatssal az cen nyugodt
erejre.
K: Azt akarod mondani, hogy a tapasztalat lehet
nvtelen, forma nlkli, meghatrozatlan?
M: Kezdetben minden tapasztalat ilyen. Csak a vgy
s a flelem, az emlkezet szli azok, amelyek
neki nevet s formt adnak, s ms tapasztalatoktl
elklntik. Nem tudatos tapasztalat, mert nincs
ellenttben ms tapasztalatokkal, mgis tapasztalat,
ennek ellenre.
K: Ha nem tudatos, mirt beszlnk rla?
M: A legtbb tapasztalatod tudattalan. A tudatos
tapasztalat nagyon ritka. Nem vagy e tny
tudatban, mert csak a tudatos tapasztalatokat
tartod szmon. Lgy tudatban a tudattalannak.
K: Tudatban lehet lenni a tudattalannak? Hogy kell
ezt csinlni?
M: A vgy s flelem a zavar s torzt tnyezk.
Amikor az elme mentes ezektl, a tudattalan
hozzfrhetv vlik.
K: Ez a tudattalan tudatoss vlst jelenti?
M: Inkbb az ellenkezje. A tudatos eggy vlik a
tudattalannal. A klnbsg megsznik, akrhogy is
nzed.
K: ssze vagyok zavarodva. Hogy lehet tudatos
valaki, s mgis tudattalan?
M: A tudat nem korltozdik a tudatossgra.
Mindenre ltezre kiterjed. A tudatossg a dualits
sajtja. A tudatban nincs dualits. Az a tiszta
szlels egyetlen tmbje. Ugyanilyen mdon
beszlhetnk tiszta ltrl, s tiszta teremtsrl nv
nlkliek, forma nlkliek, csendesek, s mgis
abszolt valsak, erteljesek, hatkonyak. Ltk
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
While they are unconscious, they are essential. The lerhatatlan mdon a legkevsb sincs hatssal
conscious cannot change fundamentally, it can only rjuk. Amg tudattalanok, addig lnyegesek. A
modify. Any thing, to change, must pass through tudatos nem tud megvltozni alapveten, csak
death, through obscuration and dissolution. Gold mdosulni tud. Brmilyen dolog, ami vltozik,
jewellery must be melted down before it is cast into keresztl kell, hogy menjen a hallon, az
another shape. What refuses to die cannot be elsttlsen s a felolddson. Az arany kszert
reborn. be kell, hogy olvaszd, mieltt msik formba
ntend. Ami elutastja a hallt, nem tud jjszletni.

Q: Barring the death of the body, how does one die? K: Nem szmtva a test hallt, hogy lehet
meghalni?

M: Withdrawal, aloofness, letting go is death. To live M: A hall visszavonulst, tartzkodst, elengedst

fully, death is essential; every ending makes a new jelent. A teljes lethez nlklzhetetlen a hall;
beginning. On the other hand, do understand, that minden befejezds egy j kezdst teremt. Msfell,
only the dead can die, not the living. That which is rtsd meg, hogy csak a halott tud meghalni, az l
alive in you, is immortal. nem. Ami l benned, az halhatatlan.

Q: From where does desire draw its energy? K: A vgy honnan veszi az energijt?

M: Its name and shape it draws from memory. The M: Nevt s formjt az emlkezetbl nyeri. Az
energy flows from the source. energia a forrsbl szrmazik.

Q: Some desires are altogether wrong. How can K: Egyes vgyak teljesen rosszak. Magasztos
wrong desires flow from a sublime source? forrsbl hogy szrmazhatnak rossz vgyak?

M: The source is neither right nor wrong. Nor is M: A forrs se nem j, se nem rossz. nmagban a
desire by itself right or wrong. It is nothing but vgy sem j, vagy rossz. A vgy semmi ms, mint
striving for happiness. Having identified yourself with boldogsgra val trekvs. Azonostod nmagad a
a speck of a body you feel lost and search test egy rszecskjvel, amit gy rzed elvesztettl,
desperately for the sense of fullness and s remnytelenl keresed, hogy teljesnek
completeness you call happiness. hinytalannak rezd magad ezt nevezed
boldogsgnak.

Q: When did I lose it? I never had it. K: Mikor vesztettem el? Sosem volt az enym.

M: You had it before you woke up this morning. Go M: Tied volt, mieltt felbredtl ma reggel. Lpj tl a
beyond your consciousness and you will find it. tudatossgodon, s megtallod.

Q: How am I to go beyond? K: Hogyan kell tllpnem?

M: You know it already; do it. M: Mr tudod; csinld.

Q: That's what you say. I know nothing about it. K: Ezt te mondod. n semmit nem tudok rla.

M: Yet I repeat -- you know it. Do it. Go beyond, M: Mg egyszer megismtlem tudod. Csinld. Lpj
back to your normal, natural, supreme state. tl, vissza, a normlis, termszetes, mindenek fltt
val llapotodba.

Q: I'm puzzled. K: ssze vagyok zavarodva.

M: A speck in the eye makes you think you are M: A szemedbe kerlt folt miatt hiszed, hogy vak
blind. Wash it out and look. vagy. Mosd ki, s lss.

Q: I do look. I see only darkness. K: Nzek. De csak sttsget ltok.

M: Remove the speck and your eyes will be flooded M: Tvoltsd el a foltot, s a szemedet elrasztja a
with light. The light is there -- waiting. The eyes are fny. A fny ott van vrakozik. A szemed ott van
there -- ready. The darkness you see is but the kszen. A sttsg, amit ltsz, csak annak a kis
shadow of the tiny speck. Get rid of it and come foltnak az rnyka. Tntesd el, s nyerd vissza

377
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
back to your natural state.
81. Root Cause of Fear
Maharaj: Where do you come from?
Questioner: I am from the United States, but I live
mostly in Europe. To India I came recently. I was in
Rishikesh, in two Ashrams. I was taught meditation
and breathing.
M: How long were you there?
Q: Eight days in one, six days in another. I was not
happy there and I left. Then for three weeks I was
with the Tibetan Lamas. But they were all wrapped
up in formulas and rituals.
M: And what was the net result of it all?
Q: Definitely there was an increase of energy. But
before I left for Rishikesh, I did some fasting and
dieting at a Nature Cure Sanatorium at Pudukkotai
in South India. It has done me enormous good.
M: Maybe the access of energy was due to better
health.
Q: I cannot say. But as a result of all these attempts
some fires started burning in various places in my
body and I heard chants and voices where there
were none.
M: And what are you after now?
Q: Well, what are we all after? Some truth, some
inner certainty, some real happiness. In the various
schools of self-realisation there is so much talk of
awareness, that one ends with the impression that
awareness itself is the supreme reality. Is it so? The
body is looked after by the brain, the brain is
illumined by consciousness; awareness watches
over consciousness; is there anything beyond
awareness?
M: How do you know that you are aware?
Q: I feel that I am. I cannot express it otherwise.
M: When you follow it up carefully from brain
through consciousness to awareness, you find that
the sense of duality persists. When you go beyond
awareness, there is a state of non-duality, in which
there is no cognition, only pure being, which may be
378
termszetes llapotodat.
81. A flelem eredend oka
Maharaj: Honnan jssz?
Krdez: Amerikai vagyok, de tbbnyire Eurpban
lek. Indiba nemrg rkeztem. Kt rishikeshi
ashramban voltam. Meditcit, s lgz gyakorlatot
tanultam.
M: Meddig voltl ott?
K: Nyolc napig az egyik, hat napig a msik
ashramban. Onnan eljttem, mert ott nem jl
reztem magam. Azutn hrom hetet tltttem a
tibeti lmknl. De ott minden formulkba s
ritulkba van csomagolva.
M: s mi volt ennek az egsznek az eredmnye?
K: Az energim hatrozottan nvekedett. De mieltt
Rishikesbl eljttem volna, nmi bjtt s ditt
tartottam a dl indiai Pudukkotaiban a Nature Cure
Sanatoriumban. Ez roppant j hatssal volt rm.
M: Energid taln megjavult egszsged miatt
nvekedett.
K: Nem tudom. De mindezen prblkozsok
eredmnyekppen testem klnbz helyein
valamifle gyulladsok keletkeztek, valamint
kntlsokat s hangokat hallottam olyan helyeken,
ahol senki se volt.
M: s mi vagy ezutn?
K: Nos, mik vagyunk mindezek utn? Valamilyen
igazsg, valamilyen bels bizonyossg, valamilyen
valdi boldogsg. Az n-megvalsts klnbz
iskoliban annyit beszlnek a tudatrl, hogy az
egyn azzal az impresszival r vget, hogy a tudat
maga a legfelsbb valsg. Ez gy van? A testnek
gondjt viseli az agy, az agyat megvilgostja
tudatossg; a tudat a tudatossgon tlra figyel; van
valami a tudaton tl?
M: Honnan tudod, hogy tudatos vagy?
K: rzem, hogy vagyok. Nem tudom msknt
kifejezni.
M: Ha a dualits rzst figyelmesen kveted az
agytl a tudatossgon keresztl a tudatig, gy
tallod, hogy vgig megmarad. Amikor tllpsz a
tudaton, akkor a nem-kettssg llapota kvetkezik,
amelyben nincs szlels, csak tiszta lt, amely
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
as well called non-being, if by being you mean being ugyangy nevezhet nemltnek is, ha lt alatt
something in particular. valami egynit rtesz.
Q: What you call pure being is it universal being,
being everything?
M: Everything implies a collection of particulars. In
pure being the very idea of the particular is absent.
Q: Is there any relationship between pure being and
particular being?
M: What relationship can there be between what is
and what merely appears to be? Is there any
relationship between the ocean and its waves? The
real enables the unreal to appear and causes it to
disappear. The succession of transient moments
creates the illusion of time, but the timeless reality of
pure being is not in movement, for all movement
requires a motionless background. It is itself the
background. Once you have found it in yourself, you
know that you had never lost that independent
being, independent of all divisions and separations.
But don't look for it in consciousness, you will not
find it there. Don't look for it anywhere, for nothing
contains it. On the contrary, it contains everything
and manifests everything. It is like the daylight that
makes everything visible while itself remaining
invisible.
Q: Sir, of what use to me is your telling me that
reality cannot be found in consciousness? Where
else am I to look for it? How do you apprehend it?
M: It is quite simple. If I ask you what is the taste of
your mouth all you can do is to say: it is neither
sweet nor bitter, nor sour nor astringent; it is what
remains when all these tastes are not. Similarly,
when all distinctions and reactions are no more,
what remains is reality, simple and solid.
Q: All that I understand is that I am in the grip of a
beginningless illusion. And I do not see how it can
come to an end. If it could, it would -- long ago. I
must have had as many opportunities in the past as
I shall have in the future. What could not happen
cannot happen. Or, if it did, it could not last. Our very
deplorable state after all these untold millions of
years carries, at best, the promise of ultimate
extinction, or, which is worse, the threat of an
endless and meaningless repetition.
M: What proof have you that your present state is
beginningless and endless? How were you before
you were born? How will you be after death? And of
your present state -- how much do you know? You
do not know even what was your condition before
you woke up this morning? You only know a little of
379
K: Amit te tiszta ltnek nevezel, az az univerzlis lt,
a mindenknt val lt?
M: A minden az egyedi dolgok sszessgt jelenti.
A tiszta ltbl valjban az egyedi ideja hinyzik.
K: Van valamilyen kapcsolat a tiszta lt s az egyedi
lt kztt?
M: Milyen kapcsolat lehet akztt, ami van, s ami
csak lenni ltszik? Van valamilyen kapcsolat az
cen s hullmai kztt? A valdi lehetv teszi a
valtlan megjelenst, s oka az eltnsnek. A
ml pillanatok egymsra kvetkezse teremti meg
az id illzijt, de a tiszta lt idtlen valsga nem
a mozgsban van, mert minden mozgs egy
mozdulatlan htteret kvetel meg. Az maga a httr.
Amikor megtalltad nmagadban, tudod, hogy soha
nem vesztetted el ezt a fggetlen ltet, amely
minden elklnlstl, s elvlasztstl fggetlen.
De azt ne a tudatossgban keresd, ott nem fogod
megtallni. Sehol ne keresd, mert semmi nem
foglalja magban. Ellenkezleg, az foglal magban
mindent, s nyilvnt meg mindent. Olyan, mint a
napfny, amely mindent lthatv tesz, mg nmaga
lthatatlan marad.
K: Uram, mi a haszna, ha arrl beszlsz nekem,
hogy a valsg nem lehet a tudatossgban? Hol
egyebtt keressem azt? Hogy rzkeled azt?
M: Ez teljesen egyszer. Ha azt krdezem tled,
milyen z a szd, akkor csak azt tudod mondani: se
nem des, se nem keser, se nem savany, se nem
csps; ami akkor marad, amikor mindezen zeket
kizrtuk. Hasonlkppen, mikor semmilyen
megklnbztets s reakci nincs tbb, ami
marad, az a valsg, ami egyszer, s szilrd.
K: Csupn annyit rtek, hogy a kezdetnlklisg
illzijnak markban vagyok. s nem ltom,
hogyan rhetne vget. Ha tudott volna, vget rt
volna mr rgen. Annyi lehetsgem a mltban is
kellett, hogy legyen, mint amennyi a jvben lesz.
Ami nem trtnhetett meg, az nem tud megtrtnni.
Vagy ha megtrtnt, nem tudtam megtartani. A mi
nagyon siralmas helyzetnk, amit eme szmtalan
vmillik eredmnyeztek, legjobb esetben a vgs
megsemmisls grete, vagy rosszabb esetben, a
vgtelen, s rtelmetlen ismtls fenyegetse.
M: Milyen bizonytkod van arra, hogy jelen
llapotod kezdet s vg nlkli? Mi voltl, mieltt
megszlettl? Mi leszel hallod utn? s jelen
llapotod mennyire ismered? Mg azt sem tudod,
mi volt az llapotod, mieltt ma reggel felkeltl?
Csak jelen llapotodat ismered egy kicsit, s abbl
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
your present state and from it you draw conclusions vonsz le minden idre s helyre vonatkoz
for all times and places. You may be just dreaming kvetkeztetseket. Lehet, hogy lmodsz csupn, s
and imagining your dream to be eternal. lmodat rkrvnynek kpzeled.

Q: Calling it a dream does not change the situation. I
repeat my question: what hope is left which the
eternity behind me could not fulfil? Why should my
future be different from my past?
K: Azzal nem vltozik a helyzet, hogy lomnak
nevezed. Ismt felteszem a krdst: milyen remny
marad, amelyet a mgttem lv rkkvalsg
nem tud beteljesteni be? Mirt kellene a jvmnek
klnbznie a mltamtl?

M: In your fevered state, you project a past and a
future and take them to be real. In fact, you know
only your present moment. Why not investigate what
is now, instead of questioning the imaginary past
and future? Your present state is neither
beginningless nor endless. It is over in a flash.
Watch carefully from where it comes and where it
goes. You will soon discover the timeless reality
behind it.
M: Lzas llapotodban mltat, s jvt vettesz ki,
s azokat valdinak tartod. Valjban, neked csak a
jelen pillanatrl van tudomsod. Mirt nem azt
tanulmnyozod, hogy mi a most, az elkpzelt mlt,
s jv kutatsa helyett? Jelen llapotod sem
kezdet, sem vg nlkli. Egy pillanaton t tart.
Vizsgld meg figyelmesen, honnan jn, s hov tart.
Hamarosan fel fogod fedezni a mgtte lv idtlen
valsgot.

Q: Why have I not done it before? K: Mirt nem tettem meg ezt azeltt?

M: Just as every wave subsides into the ocean, so M: Mint ahogy minden hullm alszll az cenba,
does every moment return to its source. Realisation gy tr vissza minden pillanat az forrshoz. A
consists in discovering the source and abiding there. megvalsuls a forrs felfedezsben, s a benne
maradsban ll.

Q: Who discovers? K: Ki a felfedez?

M: The mind discovers. M: Az elme.

Q: Does it find the answers? K: Megtallja a vlaszokat?

M: It finds that it is left without questions, that no M: Felfedezi, hogy ktsgtelen, hogy nincs szksg
answers are needed. vlaszokra.

Q: Being born is a fact. Dying is another fact. How K: A szlets tny. A hall szintn tny. Hogy
do they appear to the witness? mutatkoznak ezek a tan szmra?

M: A child was born; a man has died -- just events in M: Fiknt szletett; frfi halt meg ezek pusztn
the course of time. idbeli esemnyek.

Q: Is there any progress in the witness? Does K: Van fejlds a tansgban? Fejldik a tudat?
awareness evolve?

M: What is seen may undergo many changes when
the light of awareness is focussed on it, but it is the
object that changes, not the light. Plants grow in
sunlight, but the sun does not grow. By themselves
both the body and the witness are motionless, but
when brought together in the mind, both appear to
move.
M: Ami lthat sok vltozson mehet keresztl, mg
a tudat fnye r sszpontosul, de az objektum az,
ami vltozik, nem a fny. A nvnyek gyarapszanak
a napfnyben, de a napfny nem gyarapszik.
nmagban mind a test, mind a tan mozdulatlan,
de amikor sszejnnek az elmben, akkor mindkett
mozogni ltszik.

Q: Yes, I can see that what moves and changes is K: Igen, tudom, hogy ami mozog s vltozik, az az
the 'I am' only. Is the 'I am' needed at all? n vagyok csupn. Szksges az n vagyok
egyltaln?

M: Who needs it? It is there -- now. It had a M: Kinek van szksge r? Ltezik most. Volt egy
beginning it will have an end. kezdete, s lesz egy vge.

380
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: What remains when the I am goes?
M: What does not come and go -- remains. It is the
ever greedy mind that creates ideas of progress and
evolution towards perfection. It disturbs and talks of
order, destroys and seeks security.
Q: Is there progress in destiny, in karma?
M: Karma is only a store of unspent energies, of
unfulfilled desires and fears not understood. The
store is being constantly replenished by new desires
and fears. It need not be so for ever. Understand the
root cause of your fears -- estrangement from
yourself: and of desires -- the longing for the self,
and your karma will dissolve like a dream. Between
earth and heaven life goes on. Nothing is affected,
only bodies grow and decay.
Q: Between the person and the witness, what is the
relation?
M: There can be no relation between them because
they are one. Don't separate and don't look for
relationship.
Q: If the seer and the seen are one, how did the
separation occur?
M: Fascinated by names and forms, which are by
their very nature distinct and diverse, you distinguish
what is natural and separate what is one. The world
is rich in diversity, but your feeling strange and
frightened is due to misapprehension. It is the body
that is in danger, not you.
Q: I can see that the basic biological anxiety, the
flight instinct, takes many shapes and distorts my
thoughts and feelings. But how did this anxiety come
into being?
M: It is a mental state caused by the 'I-am-the-body'
idea. It can be removed by the contrary idea: 'I-am-
not-the-body'. Both the ideas are false, but one
removes the other. Realise that no ideas are your
own, they all come to you from outside. You must
think it all out for yourself, become yourself the
object of your meditation. The effort to understand
yourself is Yoga. Be a Yogi, give your life to it,
brood, wonder, search, till you come to the root of
error and to the truth beyond the error.
Q: In meditation, who meditates, the person or the
witness?
M: Meditation is a deliberate attempt to pierce into
the higher states of consciousness and finally go
beyond it. The art of meditation is the art of shifting
381
K: Mi marad, amikor az n vagyok eltnik?
M: Ami nem jn s megy megmarad. Az rkk
svrg elme az, ami a halads, s a tkletessg
fel val fejlds ideit teremti. Az zavar ssze, s
beszl rendrl, rombol, s keres biztonsgot.
K: Van a sorsban, a karmban fejlds?
M: A karma egy raktra csupn a fel nem hasznlt
energiknak, beteljestetlen vgyaknak, s meg nem
rtett flelmeknek. A raktr folytonosan utntltsre
kerl j vgyakkal s flelmekkel. Ennek nem kell
rkk gy lennie. rtsd meg flelmeid eredend
okt az rzelmi eltvolodst nmagadtl s
vgyaidtl az n utni svrgstl, s karmd
szertefoszlik, mint egy lom. Fld s menny kztt
az let tovbb zajlik. Semmi nem rintett, csak
testek fejldnek, s pusztulnak.
K: A szemly s a tan kztt mi a kapcsolat?
M: Nem lehet kzttk kapcsolat, mert egyek. Ne
vlaszd szt ket, s ne keress kapcsolatot.
K: Ha a lt s a ltott egyek, hogyan kvetkezett
be az elklnls?
M: A valjban termszetknl fogva klnbz, s
sokfle nevektl s formktl megbvlten
megklnbzteted, ami termszetes, s elklnted,
ami egy. A vilg vltozatossgban gazdag, de te
furcsn s rmlten rzed magad, ami flrertsnek
ksznhet. A test van veszlyben, nem te.
K: Tudom, hogy az alapvet biolgiai vgyakozs, a
meneklsi sztn sokfle formt lt, s eltorztja
gondolataimat s rzseimet. De hogyan szletett
ez a vgyakozs?
M: Ez egy mentlis llapot, amelynek az oka az n-
a-test-vagyok idea. Ez eltvolthat az ellenttes,
n-nem-a-test-vagyok ideval. Mindkt idea tves,
de az egyik trli a msikat. Ismerd fel, hogy
semmilyen idea sem a sajtod, azok mind kvlrl
jnnek. Mindegyiket nmagadon kvlinek kell
gondolnod, vlj nmagad a meditcid trgyv. A
trekvs, hogy megrtsd nmagad, a Yoga. Lgy
Yogi, add t neki az letedet, merengj el, tndj el
rajta, addig kutasd, amg el nem jutsz a tveds
gykerig, s a tvedsen tli igazsgig.
K: Meditciban ki meditl, a szemly, vagy a tan?
M: A meditci egy szndkos ksrlet a magasabb
tudatossgi llapotba val hatolsra, s vgl, az
azon val tllpsre. A meditci mvszete a
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
the focus of attention to ever subtler levels, without
losing one's grip on the levels left behind. In a way it
is like having death under control. One begins with
the lowest levels: social circumstances, customs and
habits; physical surroundings, the posture and the
breathing of the body, the senses, their sensations
and perceptions; the mind, its thoughts and feelings;
until the entire mechanism of personality is grasped
and firmly held. The final stage of meditation is
reached when the sense of identity goes beyond the
'I-am-so-and-so', beyond 'so-l-am', beyond 'I-am-the-
witness-only', beyond 'there-is', beyond all ideas into
the impersonally personal pure being. But you must
be energetic when you take to meditation. It is
definitely not a part-time occupation. Limit your
interests and activities to what is needed for you and
your dependents' barest needs. Save all your
energies and time for breaking the wall your mind
had built around you. Believe me, you will not regret.
Q: How do I come to know that my experience is
universal?
M: At the end of your meditation all is known
directly, no proofs whatsoever are required. Just as
every drop of the ocean carries the taste of the
ocean, so does every moment carry the taste of
eternity. Definitions and descriptions have their
place as useful incentives for further search, but you
must go beyond them into what is undefinable and
indescribable, except in negative terms.
After all, even universality and eternity are mere
concepts, the opposites of being place and time-
bound. Reality is not a concept, nor the
manifestation of a concept. It has nothing to do with
concepts. Concern yourself with your mind, remove
its distortions and impurities. Once you had the taste
of your own self, you will find it everywhere and at all
times. Therefore, it is so important that you should
come to it. Once you know it, you will never lose it.
But you must give yourself the opportunity through
intensive, even arduous meditation.
Q: What exactly do you want me to do?
M: Give your heart and mind to brooding over the 'I
am', what is it, how is it, what is its source, its life, its
meaning. It is very much like digging a well. You
reject all that is not water, till you reach the life-
giving spring.
Q: How shall I know that I am moving in the right
direction?
382
figyelem fkusza egyre finomabb szintekre val
thelyezsnek a mvszete, anlkl, hogy az
elhagyott szinteken elakadnl. Bizonyos fokig a
kontrolllt meghalshoz hasonlt. A legalacsonyabb
szinten kezded: trsas viszonyok, szoksok s
viselkedsmd; fizikai krnyezet, testtartsok s
lgz gyakorlatok, rzkek, benyomsok s
szleletek; az elme, annak gondolatai s rzsei;
amg a szemlyisg egsz mechanizmusa
hatrozott uralsra nem kerl. A meditci vgs
llapott akkor red el, amikor az nazonossg
rzse tllp az n-ez-s-ez-vagyok-on, tl az ez-
vagyok-on, tl az n-csak-a-tan-vagyok-on, tl a
ltezik-en, tl minden iden a szemlytelenl
szemlyes tiszta ltbe. Elhatrozottnak kell azonban
lenned, ha meditlni kezdesz. Kifejezetten nem
rszids elfoglaltsg. rdekldsedet s
tevkenysgeidet korltozd a szksgleteidre, s a
tled fggk legszkebb ignyeire. Tartogasd
minden energidat s iddet fal ttrsre, amit
elmd ptett krd. Higgy nekem, nem fogod
sajnlni.
K: Honnan fogom tudni, hogy a tapasztalatom
univerzlis?
M: Meditcid vgn mindent kzvetlenl fogsz
ismerni, semmifle bizonytkra nem lesz
szksged. Mikppen az cen minden cseppje
hordozza az cen zt, gy hordozza minden
pillanat az rkkvalsg zt. A definciknak s a
lersoknak a tovbb keress hasznos serkentiknt
megvan a maguk szerepe, de neked tl kell lpned
rajtuk abba, ami csak negatv meghatrozsokkal
meghatrozhat s kifejezhet.
Vgl is, mg az egyetemessg s rkkvalsg is
puszta fogalmak, a lt ellenttei helyhez, s idhz
ktttek. A valsg nem egy fogalom, s nem is egy
fogalom megnyilvnulsa. Fogalmakkal nem lehet
mit kezdeni. Trdj az elmddel, tvoltsd el
torzulsait, s szennyezdseit. Amikor megrezted
sajt ned zt, meg fogod tallni azt mindenhol, s
minden idben. Ezrt olyan fontos, eljuss odig. Ha
egyszer megismered, soha nem fogod elveszteni.
De a lehetsget intenzv, st, fradsgos
meditcival kell megadnod nmagadnak.
K: Mit akarsz pontosan, hogy csinljak?
M: Add t szvedet s elmdet az n vagyok feletti
tndsnek, annak, hogy mi az, mi a forrsa, lete,
jelentse. Ez nagyon hasonlt a ktsshoz. Utasts
el mindent, ami nem vz, amg el nem red az
letad forrst.
K: Honnan fogom tudni, hogy a helyes irnyba
megyek?
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
M: By your progress in intentness, in clarity and
devotion to the task.
Q: We, Europeans, find it very difficult to keep quiet.
The world is too much with us.
M: Oh, no, you are dreamers too. We differ only in
the contents of our dreams. You are after perfection
-- in the future. We are intent on finding it -- in the
now. The limited only is perfectible. The unlimited is
already perfect. You are perfect, only you don't know
it. Learn to know yourself and you will discover
wonders.
All you need is already within you, only you must
approach your self with reverence and love. Self-
condemnation and self-distrust are grievous errors.
Your constant flight from pain and search for
pleasure is a sign of love you bear for your self, all I
plead with you is this: make love of your self perfect.
Deny yourself nothing -- glue your self infinity and
eternity and discover that you do not need them; you
are beyond.
82. Absolute Perfection is Here and Now 82. Abszolt tkletessg itt s most
Questioner: The war is on. What is your attitude to
it?
Maharaj: In some place or other, in some form or
other, the war is always on. Was there a time when
there was no war? Some say it is the will of God.
Some say it is God's play. It is another way of saying
that wars are inevitable and nobody is responsible.
Q: But what is your own attitude?
M: Why impose attitudes on me? I have no attitude
to call my own.
Q: Surely somebody is responsible for this horrible
and senseless carnage. Why do people kill each
other so readily?
M: Search for the culprit within. The ideas of 'me'
and 'mine' are at the root of all conflict. Be free of
them and you will be out of conflict.
Q: What of it that I am out of conflict? It will not
affect the war. If I am the cause of war, I am ready to
be destroyed. Yet, it stands to reason that the
disappearance of a thousand like me will not stop
wars. They did not start with my birth nor will end
383
M: A feladat irnti figyelem, vilgossg s odaads
tern val elrehaladsodbl.
K: Mi eurpai emberek nagyon nehznek talljuk,
hogy csendben maradjunk. A vilg tlsgosan
velnk van.
M: , nem, ti szintn lmodk vagytok. lmainknak
csak a tartalma tekintetben klnbznk. Ti a
tkletesedst keresitek a jvben. Mi fel akarjuk
azt fedezni a mostban. Csak a korltozott
tkletesthet. A korltlan mr tkletes.
Tkletesek vagytok, csak nem tudjtok. Tanuld
meg nmagad ismerett, s csodkat fogsz
felfedezni.
Amire szksged van, az mr mind megvan bell,
csak tisztelettel s szeretettel kell kzeledned
nedhez. Az nhibztats s az nbizalom hinya
slyos hibk. lland fjdalomtl meneklsed val
s rm keressed az ned irnt rzett szeretet jele,
mindssze arra krlek: tkletestsd ned irnti
szeretetet. Ne gyakorolj nmegtagadst ragaszd
nedet a vgtelensghez s rkkvalsghoz, s
fedezd fel, hogy nincs szksged rjuk; te ezeken
tl vagy.
Krdez: Hbor van. Mi az llspontod ezzel
kapcsolatban?
Maharaj: Valahol vagy msutt, ilyen vagy olyan
formban, mindig hbor van. Volt olyan idszak,
amikor nem volt hbor? Nmelyek azt mondjk, ez
Isten akarata. Nmelyek azt, hogy Isten jtka. Ez
egy ms kifejezsmd arra, hogy a hbork
hatatlanul bekvetkeznek, s senki nem felels.
K: De mi a te llspontod?
M: Mirt tulajdontasz nekem llspontokat? Nekem
nincs llspontom, amit a sajtomnak lehet nevezni.
K: Biztosan felels valaki ezrt a szrny, s
rtelmetlen vrontsrt. Mirt oly hajlamosak az
emberek arra, hogy egymst ljk?
M: Bell keresd a bnst. Az n s enym idek
vannak minden konfliktus gykern. Szabadulj meg
tlk, s nem lesz konfliktus.
K: Mi van, ha megszabadulok a konfliktustl? Az
nem lesz hatssal a hborra. Ha n vagyok a
hbor oka, ksz vagyok meghalni. De nyilvnval,
hogy a hozzm hasonl ezrek eltnse nem fogja
meglltani a hborkat. Nem az n szletsemmel
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
with my death. I am not Responsible. Who is?
M: Strife and struggle are a part of existence. Why
don't you enquire who is responsible for existence?
Q: Why do you say that existence and conflict are
inseparable? Can there be no existence without
strife? I need not fight others to be myself.
M: You fight others all the time for your survival as a
separate body-mind, a particular name and form. To
live you must destroy. From the moment you were
conceived you started a war with your environment -
- a merciless war of mutual extermination, until
death sets you free.
Q: My question remains unanswered. You are
merely describing what I know -- life and its sorrows.
But who is responsible, you do not say. When I
press you, you throw the blame on God, or karma,
or on my own greed and fear -- which merely invites
further questions. Give me the final answer.
M: The final answer is this: nothing is. All is a
momentary appearance in the field of the universal
consciousness; continuity as name and form is a
mental formation only, easy to dispel.
Q: I am asking about the immediate, the transitory,
the appearance. Here is a picture of a child killed by
soldiers. It is a fact -- staring at you. You cannot
deny it. Now, who is responsible for the death of the
child?
M: Nobody and everybody. The world is what it
contains and each thing affects all others. We all kill
the child and we all die with it. Every event has
innumerable causes and produces numberless
effects. It is useless to keep accounts, nothing is
traceable.
Q: Your people speak of karma and retribution.
M: It is merely a gross approximation: in reality we M: Ez egy merben durva megkzelts: valjban
are all creators and creatures of each other, causing valamennyien teremti s teremtettjei vagyunk
and bearing each other's burden. egymsnak, okozva s cipelve egyms terheit.
Q: So, the innocent suffers for the guilty?
M: In our ignorance we are innocent; in our actions
we are guilty. We sin without knowing and suffer
without understanding. Our only hope: to stop, to
look, to understand and to get out of the traps of
memory. For memory feeds imagination and
imagination generates desire and fear.
384
kezddnek, s nem fognak vget rni a hallommal.
Nem n vagyok a Felels. Ki az?
M: A kzdelem s a harc rsze a ltezsnek. Mirt
nem azt kutatod, ki a felels a ltezsrt?
K: Mirt mondod, hogy a ltezs s a konfliktus
elvlaszthatatlanok? Nem lehet ltezs kzdelem
nlkl? Nekem nem kell msokkal harcolnom, hogy
nmagam legyek.
M: Szakadatlanul msokkal harcolsz a tllsedrt,
gy mint elklnlt test-elme, konkrt nv s forma.
Az lethez puszttanod kell. Attl a pillanattl, hogy
ezt felfogtad, hbort kezdtl a krnyezeteddel a
klcsns megsemmists knyrtelen hborjt,
amely megszabadt hallodig tart.
K: Nem vlaszoltl a krdsemre. Te azt ecseteled
csupn, amit magam is ismerek az letet, s
annak csapsait. De hogy ki a felels, arrl nem
beszlsz. Ha presszionllak, ttolod a felelssget
Istenre, vagy a karmra, vagy az n kapzsisgomra
s flelmemre ami tovbbi krdsekre sztnz
csupn. Add meg szmomra a vgs vlaszt.
M: A vgs vlasz ez: semmi nincs. Minden egy
pillanatnyi jelensg az univerzlis tudatossg
terben; a nv- s formaknti folytonossg egy
mentlis formci csupn, knny eloszlatni.
K: n a kzvetlenrl, a mlrl, a jelensgrl
krdezlek. Itt egy kp egy gyermekrl, akit katonk
ltek meg. Ez tny rd mered. Nem tagadhatod.
Nos, ki a felels a gyermek hallrt?
M: Senki, s mindenki. A vilg az, amely magban
foglalja, s minden dolog minden msikra hat. Mi
mindannyian ljk a gyermeket, s mi mindannyian
meghalunk vele egytt. Minden esemny oka
megszmllhatatlan, s megszmllhatatlan hatst
hoz ltre. Haszontalan dolog a szmvets, semmi
nem mutathat ki.
K: A te nped karmrl s bntetsrl beszl.
K: Teht az rtatlan szenved a bns helyett?
M: Tudatlansgunkban rtatlanok vagyunk;
cselekedeteinkben bnsk. Vtkeznk, anlkl,
hogy tudnnk, s szenvednk, anlkl, hogy
megrtennk. Egyetlen remnynk: megllni, nzni,
megrteni, s eltvoltani az emlkezet kelepcit.
Mert az emlkezet tpllja a kpzeletet, s a
kpzelet hozza ltre a vgyat s a flelmet.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: Why do I imagine at all?
M: The light of consciousness passes through the
film of memory and throws pictures on your brain.
Because of the deficient and disordered state of
your brain, what you perceive is distorted and
coloured by feelings of like and dislike. Make your
thinking orderly and free from emotional overtones,
and you will see people and things as they are, with
clarity and charity.
The witness of birth, life and death is one and the
same. It is the witness of pain and of love. For while
the existence in limitation and separation is
sorrowful, we love it. We love it and hate it at the
same time. We fight, we kill, we destroy life and
property and yet we are affectionate and self-
sacrificing. We nurse the child tenderly and orphan it
too. Our life is full of contradictions. Yet we cling to
it. This clinging is at the root of everything. Still, it is
entirely superficial. We hold on to something or
somebody, with all our might and next moment we
forget it; like a child that shapes its mud-pies and
abandons them light-heartedly. Touch them -- it will
scream with anger, divert the child and he forgets
them. For our life is now, and the love of it is now.
We love variety, the play of pain and pleasure, we
are fascinated by contrasts. For this we need the
opposites and their apparent separation. We enjoy
them for a time and then get tired and crave for the
peace and silence of pure being. The cosmic heart
beats ceaselessly. I am the witness and the heart
too.
Q: I can see the picture, but who is the painter? Who K: Ltom a kpet, de ki a fest? Ki felels ezrt a
is responsible for this terrible and yet adorable rettenetes, s mgis elragad tapasztalatrt?
experience?
M: The painter is in the picture. You separate the
painter from the picture and look for him. Don't
separate and don't put false questions. Things are
as they are and nobody in particular is responsible.
The idea of personal responsibility comes from the
illusion of agency. 'Somebody must have done it,
somebody is responsible'. Society as it is now, with
its framework of laws and customs, is based on the
idea of a separate and responsible personality, but
this is not the only form a society can take. There
may be other forms, where the sense of separation
is weak and responsibility diffused.
Q: An individual with a weak sense of personality --
is he nearer self-realisation?
M: Take the case of a young child. The sense of 'I- M: Vegyk egy fiatal gyermek esett. Az n-vagyok
am' is not yet formed, the personality is rudimentary. rzse mg nem kialakult, a szemlyisg fejletlen.
385
K: Mirt kpzeldm egyltaln?
M: A tudatossg fnye az emlkezet filmjn
keresztlhaladva kpeket vett az agyadra. Agyad
hinyos s zavaros llapota miatt szlelsed torzult,
s tetszik nem tetszik rzsek ltal sznezett. Tedd
rendbe a gondolkodsodat, szabadtsd meg az
rzelmi felhangoktl, s gy fogod ltni az
embereket s dolgokat, ahogyan azok vannak,
tisztasggal s knyrletessggel.
A szlets, let s hall tanja egy s ugyanaz. a
fjdalom s szeretet tanja. Szeretjk az egy ideig
korltozottsgban s elklnltsgben szomorkod
ltet. Szeretjk, s ugyanakkor gylljk. Harcolunk,
lnk, letet s tulajdont puszttunk, s mgis
szeretetteljesek s nfelldozk vagyunk.
Szeretetben neveljk a gyermeket, ugyanakkor
rvasgra juttatjuk. letnk ellentmondsokkal van
tele. Mgis kapaszkodunk bel. Ez a kapaszkods a
gykere mindennek. Mindazonltal, teljesen
felsznes. Minden ernkkel ragaszkodunk
valamihez, vagy valakihez, s a kvetkez
pillanatban elfelejtjk; mint a gyermek, aki
homoktortkat formzik, majd knny szvvel
sorsra hagyja ket. rj hozzjuk dhsen
vistanak, tereld el a figyelmt, s elfelejti ket. Mert
most lnk, s azt most szeretjk. Szeretjk a
vltozatossgot, a szenveds s rm jtkt,
megigznek bennnket az ellenttkkel. Ezrt van
szksgnk az ellenttekre, s ltszlagos
elklnlskre. lvezzk ket egy darabig, majd
kifradunk, s kveteljk a bkt, s a tiszta lt
csendjt. A kozmikus szv szntelenl dobog. n
vagyok a tan, s a szv egyarnt.
M: A fest a kpben van. Elklnted a festt a
kptl, majd keresed t. Ne klntsd el, s ne tgy
fel helytelen krdseket. A dolgok vannak, ahogy
vannak, s senki nem egynileg felels. A szemlyi
felelssg ideja a tevkenysg illzijbl
szrmazik. Valakinek meg kellett tennie, valaki
felels. Jelen trsadalom, a maga trvnyi
kereteivel s szoksaival, a szemlyi fggetlensg
s felelssg eszmjre pl, de nem ez az
egyetlen forma, amit a trsadalom magra lthet.
Ltezhetnek ms formk, ahol az elklnltsg
rzse gyenge, s a felelssg elszrt.
K: A szemlyisg gyenge rzsvel rendelkez
egyn kzelebb ll az n-megvalsulshoz?
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
The obstacles to self knowledge are few, but the
power and the clarity of awareness, its width and
depth are lacking. In the course of years awareness
will grow stronger, but also the latent personality will
emerge and obscure and complicate. Just as the
harder the wood, the hotter the flame, so the
stronger the personality, brighter the light generated
from its destruction.
Q: Have you no problems?
M: I do have problems. I told you already. To be, to
exist with a name and form is painful, yet I love it.
Q: But you love everything.
M: In existence everything is contained. My very
nature is to love; even the painful is lovable.
Q: It does not make it less painful. Why not remain
in the unlimited?
M: It is the instinct of exploration, the love of the
unknown, that brings me into existence. It is in the
nature of being to see adventure in becoming, as it
is in the very nature of becoming to seek peace in
being. This alteration of being and becoming is
inevitable; but my home is beyond.
Q: Is your home in God?
M: To love and worship a god is also ignorance. My
home is beyond all notions, however sublime.
Q: But God is not a notion. It is the reality beyond
existence.
M: You may use any word you like. Whatever you
may think of am beyond it.
Q: Once you know your home, why not stay in it?
What takes you out of it?
M: Out of love for corporate existence one is born
and once born, one gets involved in destiny. Destiny
is inseparable from becoming. The desire to be the
particular makes you into a person with all its
personal past and future. Look at some great man,
what a wonderful man he was. And yet how troubled
was his life and limited its fruits. How utterly
dependent is the personality of man and how
indifferent is its world. And yet we love it and protect
it for its very insignificance.
Q: The war is on and there is chaos and you are
386
Az nismeretnek mg kevs az akadlya, de a tudat
ereje s vilgossga, szlessge s mlysge
hinyzik. Az vek sorn a tudat ersdik, de a
lappang szemlyisg is felbukkan, s zavar, s
komplikl. Mint ahogy minl kemnyebb a fa, annl
melegebb a tz, gy minl ersebb a szemlyisg,
annl ragyogbb a fny, amit annak lerombolsa
generl.
K: Nincsenek problmid?
M: Vannak problmim. Mr beszltem rluk. Lenni,
nvvel s formval ltezni fjdalmas dolog, mgis
szeretem.
K: De te mindent szeretsz.
M: A ltezs mindent magban foglal. Az n valdi
termszetem a szeretet; mg a fjdalom is
szeretetre mlt.
K: Az nem teszi kevsb fjdalmass. Mirt nem
maradsz a korltok nlkliben?
M: A felfedezs hajlama, az ismeretlen szeretete
vesz r a ltezsre. Benne van a lt termszetben,
hogy kalandot lt a valamiv vlsban, mivel a
valamiv vls valdi termszetben benne van a
bke keresse a ltben. A ltnek s a valamiv
vlsnak ez a vltakozsa elkerlhetetlen; de az n
otthonom ezen tl van.
K: A te otthonod Istenben van?
M: Istent szeretni s imdni szintn tudatlansg. Az
n otthonom tl van minden fogalmon, legyen az
brmennyire magasztos.
K: De Isten nem egy fogalom. a ltezsen tli
realits.
M: Fogalmazhatsz tetszsed szerint. Gondolhatsz
akrmire, n azon tl vagyok.
K: Ha egyszer ismered az otthonodat, mirt nem
maradsz ott? Mi vesz r, hogy elhagyd?
M: A testi ltezs szeretetn kvl az egyn azrt
szletik meg jra s jra, mert bele keveredett a
sorsba. A sors elvlaszthatatlan a valamiv
vlstl. Az egyniv vls vgya tesz szemlly,
annak minden szemlyes mltjval s jvjvel.
Tekints nhny nagy embert, micsoda csodlatos
emberek voltak. s letk mgis milyen zavaros, s
gymlcseikben korltozott volt. Mily vgletesen
fgg az ember szemlyisge, s mily jelentktelen
a vilga. s mgis, szeretjk s vdjk, annak
ellenre, hogy nagyon jelentktelen.
K: Hbor s zrzavar van, s felkrst kapsz, hogy
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
being asked to take charge of a feeding centre. You
are given what is needed, it is only a question of
getting through the job. Will you refuse it?
M: To work, or not to work, is one and the same to
me. I may take charge, or may not. There may be
others, better endowed for such tasks, than I am --
professional caterers for instance. But my attitude is
different. I do not look at death as a calamity as I do
not rejoice at the birth of a child. The child is out for
trouble while the dead is out of it. Attachment to life
is attachment to sorrow. We love what gives us pain.
Such is our nature.
For me the moment of death will be a moment of
jubilation, not of fear. I cried when I was born and I
shall die laughing.
Q: What is the change in consciousness at the
moment of death?
M: What change do you expect? When the film
projection ends all remains the same as when it
started. The state before you were born was also the
state after death, if you remember.
Q: I remember nothing.
M: Because you never tried. It is only a question of
tuning in the mind. It requires training, of course.
Q: Why don't you take part in social work?
M: But I am doing nothing else all the time. And
what is the social work you want me to do?
Patchwork is not for me. My stand is clear: produce
to distribute, feed before you eat, give before you
take, think of others, before you think of yourself.
Only a selfless society based on sharing can be
stable and happy. This is the only practical solution.
If you do not want it -- fight.
Q: It is all a matter of gunas. Where tamas and rajas K: Mindez a gunk problmja. Ahol a tamas s a
predominate, there must be war. Where sattva rules, rajas van tlslyban, ott hbornak kell lennie. Ahol
there will be peace. a sattva uralkodik, ott bknek kell lennie.
M: Put it whichever way you like, it comes to the
same. Society is built on motives. Put goodwill into
the foundations and you will not need specialised
social workers.
Q: The world is getting better.
M: The world had all the time to get better, yet it did
not. What hope is there for the future? Of course,
there have been and will be periods of harmony and
387
vedd t egy lelmezsi kzpont irnytst. Mindent
szksgeset megkapsz, egyetlen krds, vllalod-e
a feladatot. Visszautastand?
M: Dolgozni, vagy nem dolgozni, egy s ugyanaz
szmomra. Lehet, hogy tveszem az irnytst,
lehet, hogy nem. Lehet, hogy msok alkalmasabbak
az ilyen feladatokra, mint n lelmezsi szakrtk,
pldul. De az n attitdm ms. n nem tekintem a
hallt csapsnak, mint ahogy nem rvendezek egy
gyermek szletsnek sem. A gyermek a szenveds
sorsra jut, mg a halllal kikerl abbl. Az lethez
val ragaszkods a szomorsghoz val
ragaszkods. Szeretjk, amit a fjdalom nyjt
szmunkra. Ilyen a termszetnk.
Szmomra a hall pillanata az rm pillanata lesz,
nem a flelem. Srtam mikor megszlettem, s
nevetve fogok meghalni.
K: Hogyan vltozik meg a tudatossg a hall
pillanatban?
M: Milyen vltozsra gondolsz? A filmvetts vgn
minden ugyanaz marad, mint kezdetben. A
megszletsed eltti llapot a hallod utni
llapotoddal azonos, ha emlkszel.
K: Nem emlkszem semmire.
M: Mert sohasem prbltad. Ez csak az elme
hangolsnak a krdse. Gyakorlst ignyel,
termszetesen.
K: Mirt nem vgzel emberbarti munkt?
M: De ht semmi mst sem csinlok, egsz id alatt.
s milyen emberbarti munkt szeretnl, hogy
vgezzek? A foltozs nem nekem val. Az n
llspontom vilgos: termelj, hogy elossz, etess
mieltt ennl, adj, mieltt elvennl, gondolj msokra,
mieltt nmagadra gondolnl. Csak egy megoszts
alap, nzetlen trsadalom lehet stabil s boldog.
Ez az egyetlen praktikus megolds. Ha nem ezt
akarod harcolj.
M: Fogalmazz tetszsed szerint, ugyanoda vezet. A
trsadalom hajterkre pl. Tedd bele a jakaratot
az alapokba, s nem lesz szksged szakkpzett
szocilis munksokra.
K: A vilg jobb vlna.
M: A vilgnak folyton jobb kellett volna vlnia,
mgsem tette. Mi a remny a jvre nzve?
Termszetesen, voltak, s lesznek harmonikus s
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
peace, when sattva was in ascendance, but things
get destroyed by their own perfection. A perfect
society is necessarily static and, therefore, it
stagnates and decays. From the summit all roads
lead downwards. Societies are like people -- they
are born, they grow to some point of relative
perfection and then decay and die.
Q: Is there not a state of absolute perfection which
does not decay?
M: Whatever has a beginning must have an end. In
the timeless all is perfect, here and now.
Q: But shall we reach the timeless in due course?
M: In due course we shall come back to the starting
point. Time cannot take us out of time, as space
cannot take us out of space. All you get by waiting is
more waiting. Absolute perfection is here and now,
not in some future, near or far. The secret is in
action -- here and now. It is your behaviour that
blinds you to yourself. Disregard whatever you think
yourself to be and act as if you were absolutely
perfect -- whatever your idea of perfection may be.
All you need is courage.
Q: Where do I find such courage?
M: In yourself, of course. Look within.
Q: Your grace will help.
M: My grace is telling you now: look within. All you
need you have. Use it. Behave as best you know, do
what you think you should. Don't be afraid of
mistakes; you can always correct them, only
intentions matter. The shape things take is not within
your power; the motives of your actions are.
Q: How can action born from imperfection lead to
perfection?
M: Action does not lead to perfection; perfection is
expressed in action. As long as you judge yourself
by your expressions give them utmost attention;
when you realise your own being your behaviour will
be perfect -- spontaneously.
Q: If I am timelessly perfect, then why was I born at
all? What is the purpose of this life?
M: It is like asking: what does it profit gold to be
made into an ornament? The ornament gets the
colour and the beauty of gold; gold is not enriched.
388
bks peridusok, amikor a sattva uralkodott, de a
dolgok sajt tkletessgk ltal mennek tnkre.
Egy tkletes trsadalom szksgszeren statikus,
ennlfogva stagnl, s hanyatlik. A cscsrl minden
t lefel vezet. A trsadalmak olyanok, mint az
emberek megszletnek, fejldnek a viszonylagos
tkletessg egy pontjig, majd hanyatlanak, s
meghalnak.
K: Nincs egy abszolt tkletes llapot, ahonnan
nincs visszaess?
M: Ha valaminek kezdete van, akkor vge is kell,
hogy legyen. Az idtlenben minden tkletes, itt s
most.
K: De el fogjuk-e rni az idtlensget kell idben?
M: Kell idben vissza fogunk rni a kezdpontra.
Az id nem tud bennnket kivezetni az idbl, ahogy
a tr sem tud kivezetni bennnket a trbl.
Vrakozs ltal csak mg tbb vrakozst kapsz. Az
abszolt tkletessg itt s most van, nem valahol a
jvben, a kzelben, vagy a tvolban. A titok
mkdsben van itt s most. Hagyd figyelmen
kvl, brmit is gondolsz magadrl, s cselekedj gy,
mintha abszolt tkletes lennl brmilyen eszmt
alkoss a tkletessgrl, az lehetsges. Csupn
btorsgra van szksged.
K: Honnan vegyek ekkora btorsgot?
M: Magadbl, termszetesen. Nzz magadba.
K: A kegyelmed segteni fog.
M: Az n kegyelmem most azt mondja neked: nzz
magadba. Mindened megvan, amire szksged van.
Hasznld. Mkdj a legjobb tudsod szerint, tgy,
ahogy gondolod, hogy kell. Ne flj a tvedsektl;
mindig helyesbteni tudod azokat, csak a szndkok
szmtanak. A formai dolgok megragadsa nem ll
hatalmadban; a cselekedeteid indtkai, igen.
K: Hogyan vezethet egy tkletlensgbl szlet
cselekedet tkletessghez?
M: Nem a cselekvs nem vezet tkletessghez; a
tkletessg fejezdik ki a cselekvsben. Amg
megnyilvnulsaid alapjn tled meg nmagad,
biztosts szmukra a lehet legnagyobb figyelmet;
amikor megvalstod tulajdon ltedet, magatartsod
tkletes lesz teljesen spontn mdon.
K: Ha idtlenl tkletes vagyok, akkor minek
szlettem egyltaln? Mi a clja ennek az letnek?
M: Ez olyan, mint azt krdezni: mit nyer belle az
arany, ha kszert ksztenek belle? Az kszer
elnyeri az arany sznt s szpsgt; az arany nem
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Similarly, reality expressed in action makes the
action meaningful and beautiful.
Q: What does the real gain through its expressions?
M: What can it gain? Nothing whatsoever. But it is in
the nature of love to express itself, to affirm itself, to
overcome difficulties. Once you have understood
that the world is love in action, you will look at it
quite differently. But first your attitude to suffering
must change. Suffering is primarily a call for
attention, which itself is a movement of love. More
than happiness, love wants growth, the widening
and deepening of consciousness and being.
Whatever prevents becomes a cause of pain, and
love does not shirk from pain. Sattva, the energy
that works for righteousness and orderly
development, must not be thwarted. When
obstructed it turns against itself and becomes
destructive. Whenever love is withheld and suffering
allowed to spread, war becomes inevitable. Our
indifference to our neighbours sorrow brings
suffering to our door.
83. The True Guru
Questioner: You were saying the other day that at
the root of your realisation was the trust in your
Guru. He assured you that you were already the
Absolute Reality and there was nothing more to be
done. You trusted him and left it at that, without
straining, without striving. Now, my question is:
without trust in your Guru would you have realised?
After all, what you are, you are, whether your mind
trusts or not; would doubt obstruct the action of the
Guru's words and make them inoperative?
Maharaj: You have said it -- they would have been
made inoperative -- for a time.
Q: And what would happen to the energy, or power
in the Guru's words?
M: It would remain latent, unmanifested. But the
entire question is based on a misunderstanding. The
master, the disciple, the love and trust between
them, these are one fact, not so many independent
facts. Each is a part of the other. Without love and
trust there would have been no Guru nor disciple,
and no relationship between them. It is like pressing
a switch to light an electric lamp. It is because the
lamp, the wiring, the switch, the transformer, the
transmission lines and the power house form a
389
gyarapszik semmivel. Hasonlkppen teszi a
cselekvsben kifejezd valsg a cselekvst
jelentsgteljess s szpp.
K: Mit nyer a valsg a kifejezdsei rvn?
M: Mit tudna nyerni? Egyltaln semmit. De benne
van a szeretet termszetben, hogy kifejezze
magt, hogy megerstse magt, hogy legyzze a
nehzsgeket. Amint megrtetted, hogy a vilg
cselekv szeretet, egszen mskpp fogsz rnzni.
De elszr a szenvedssel kapcsolatos
hozzllsodat kell megvltoztatnod. A szenveds
eredetileg kilts a figyelemrt, amely maga a
szeretet mozgsa. Tbb, mint boldogsg, a szeretet
nvekedst akar, a tudatossg s a lt szlesedst
s mlylst. Akrmi gtolja, a fjdalom okv
vlik, s a szeretet nem bjik el a fjdalom ell. A
sattvt, az igazsgossg, s a szablyos fejlds
rdekben mkd energit, nem szabad
akadlyozni. Amikor eltorlaszoldik szembefordul
nmagval, s rombol hatsv vlik.
Valahnyszor a szeretet elfojtsra kerl, s a
szenvedsnek lehetsge van, hogy sztterjedjen,
elkerlhetetlen a hbor. Szomszdunk
szomorsga irnti kznynk a szenvedst az
ajtnkhoz ksri.
83. A valdi Guru
Krdez: Mondtad minap, hogy megvalsulsod a
Gurudba vetett hitedben gykerezett. Biztostott rla,
hogy te mr az Abszolt Valsg vagy, s hogy
semmi tbbet nem kell tenned. Hittl neki, s
rhagyatkoztl, erltets nlkl, kzdelem nlkl. Na
mr most, krdsem a kvetkez: Gurudba vetett
hited nlkl megvalsultl volna? Vgl is, az vagy
ami vagy, akr elhiszi az elmd, akr nem; ha
ktelkedsz, az gtolta volna a Guru szavainak
befolyst, s hatstalantotta volna azokat?
Maharaj: Ahogy mondod hatstalann vltak
volna egy idre.
K: s mi trtnt volna a Guru szavainak
energijval, vagy erejvel?
M: Rejtve maradt volna, megnyilvnulatlanul. De az
egsz krds flrertsen alapul. A mester, a
tantvny, a kzttk lv szeretet s bizalom, ezek
mind egy dolog, nem pedig ahny annyifle, tbb
fggetlen dolog. Mindegyik rsze a msiknak.
Szeretet s hit nlkl nem lenne Guru, sem
tantvny, s kapcsolat sem lenne kzttk. Ez
olyan, mint felkapcsolni egy villanylmpt a
kapcsolval, hogy vilgtson. Mivel a lmpa, a
vezetk, a kapcsol, a transzformtor, a villamos
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
single whole, that you get the light. Any one factor tvvezetkek, s az ermtelep egysges egszet
missing and there would be no light. You must not alkotnak, ezrt gyullad fel a fny. Brmelyik elem
separate the inseparable. Words do not create facts; hinyozzon, s a fny nem fog felgyulladni. Nem kell
they either describe them or distort. The fact is elvlasztanod az elvlaszthatatlant. A szavak nem
always non-verbal. teremtenek tnyeket; lerjk, vagy eltorztjk azokat.
A tnyek soha nem rhatk le szavakkal.

Q: I still do not understand; can the Guru's word K: Mg mindig nem rtem; lehetsges, hogy a Guru
remain unfulfilled or will it invariably prove true? szavai beteljesletlenek maradnak, vagy mindig
igaznak bizonyulnak?

M: Words of a realised man never miss their
purpose. They wait for the right conditions to arise
which may take some time, and this is natural, for
there is a season for sowing and a season for
harvesting. But the word of a Guru is a seed that
cannot perish. Of course, the Guru must be a real
one, who is beyond the body and the mind, beyond
consciousness itself, beyond space and time,
beyond duality and unity, beyond understanding and
description. The good people who have read a lot
and have a lot to say, may teach you many useful
things, but they are not the real Gurus whose words
invariably come true. They also may tell you that you
are the ultimate reality itself, but what of it?
M: A megvalsult ember szavai soha nem tvesztik
el a cljukat. Vrnak a megfelel felttelekre, ami
eltarthat bizonyos ideig, s ez termszetes, mert
ideje van a vetsnek, s ideje van az aratsnak. De
a Guru szava olyan mag, amely nem tud elenyszni.
Termszetesen, a Gurunak valdinak kell lennie, aki
tl van a testen s az elmn, tl van a tudatossgon
magn, tl tren s idn, tl kettssgen s
egysgen, tl megrtsen s lerson. A tndrek,
akik sokat olvastak, s sokat beszlnek, sok
hasznos dologra megtanthatnak, de nem k a
valdi Guruk, akik szava megvltozhatatlanul
megvalsul. k szintn kzlhetik veled, hogy te
vagy a vgs valsg maga, de mire msz vele?

Q: Nevertheless, if for some reason I happen to trust K: Mindamellett, ha hiszek s engedelmeskedem

them and obey, shall I be the loser? nekik bizonyos okokbl, vesztes kell, hogy legyek?

M: If you are able to trust and obey, you will soon M: Ha kpes vagy hinni, s engedelmeskedni,
find your real Guru, or rather, he will find you. hamarosan megtallod igazi Gurudat, azaz inkbb,
tall meg tged.

Q: Does every knower of the Self become a Guru, or K: Az n minden ismerje Guruv vlik, vagy lehet
can one be a knower of Reality without being able to ismerje valaki anlkl a Valsgnak, hogy kpes
take others to it? lenne msokat elvezetni hozz?

M: If you know what you teach, you can teach what
you know. Here seership and teachership are one.
But the Absolute Reality is beyond both. The self-
styled Gurus talk of ripeness and effort, of merits
and achievements, of destiny and grace; all these
are mere mental formations, projections of an
addicted mind. Instead of helping, they obstruct.
M: Ha tudod amit tantasz, akkor tantani tudod amit
tudsz. Itt a ltnoksg s a tantsg egyek. De az
Abszolt Valsg mindkettn tl van. A magukat
Gurunak kiadk rettsgrl s erfesztsrl,
rdemrl s teljestmnyrl, sorsrl s kegyelemrl
beszlnek; mindezek puszta mentlis
kpzdmnyek, egy fgg elme kivettsei. Segtsg
helyett akadlyoznak.

Q: How can I make out whom to follow and whom to K: Hogy tudom felismerni, kit kvessek, s kiben
mistrust? ktelkedjek?

M: Mistrust all, until you are convinced. The true
Guru will never humiliate you, nor will he estrange
you from yourself. He will constantly bring you back
to the fact of your inherent perfection and encourage
you to seek within. He knows you need nothing, not
even him, and is never tired of reminding you. But
the self appointed Guru is more concerned with
himself than with his disciples.
M: Ktelkedj mindenben, amg meggyzdsre nem
jutsz. A valdi Guru soha nem alz meg tged, s
nem fog elidegenteni nmagadtl. llhatatosan
bels tkletessged tnyhez vezet vissza, s
bels keressre buzdt. Tudja, hogy semmire nincs
szksged, mg r sem, s soha nem lankad,
hogy erre emlkeztessen tged. De az njellt Guru
tbbet foglalkozik nmagval, mint tantvnyaival.

Q: You said that reality is beyond the knowledge K: Azt mondtad, a valsg tl van a tudson, s a
and the teaching of the real. Is not the knowledge of valsg tantsn. Nem a valsg ismerete a

390
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
reality the supreme itself and teaching the proof of
its attainment?
M: The knowledge of the real, or the self, is a state
of mind. Teaching another is a movement in duality.
They concern the mind only; sattva is a Guna all the
same.
Q: What is real then?
M: He who knows the mind as non-realised and
realised, who knows ignorance and knowledge as
states of mind, he is the real. When you are given
diamonds mixed with gravel, you may either miss
the diamonds or find them. It is the seeing that
matters. Where is the greyness of the gravel and the
beauty of the diamond, without the power to see?
The known is but a shape and knowledge is but a
name. The knower is but a state of mind. The real is
beyond.
Q: Surely, objective knowledge and ideas of things
and self knowledge are not one and the same thing.
One needs a brain, the other does not.
M: For the purpose of discussion you can arrange
words and give them meaning, but the fact remains
that all knowledge is a form of ignorance. The most
accurate map is yet only paper. All knowledge is in
memory; it is only recognition, while reality is beyond
the duality of the knower and the known.
Q: Then by what is reality known?
M: How misleading is your language. You assume,
unconsciously, that reality also is approachable
through knowledge. And then you will bring in a
knower of reality beyond reality. Do understand that
to be, reality need not be known. Ignorance and
knowledge are in the mind, not in the real.
Q: If there is no such thing as the knowledge of the
real, then how do I reach it?
M: You need not reach out for what is already with
you. Your very reaching out makes you miss it. Give
up the idea that you have not found it and just let it
come into the focus of direct perception, here and
now, by removing all that is of the mind.
Q: When all that can go, goes, what remains?
M: Emptiness remains, awareness remains, pure
light of the conscious being remains. It is like asking
what remains of a room when all the furniture is
removed? A most serviceable room remains. And
when even the walls are pulled down, space
391
legfelsbb maga, s nem a tants az
elnyersnek a bizonytka?
M: A valsg, vagy az n ismerete, elme llapot. A
tants egy tovbbi mozgs a kettssgben. Ezek
csak az elmt rintik; a sattva azrt mgis egy
Guna.
K: Mi valdi akkor?
M: Az a valsg, aki az elmt nem-megvalsultknt
s megvalsultknt ismeri, aki a tudatlansgot s a
tudst az elme llapotaiknt ismeri. Amikor hajlamos
vagy r, hogy a gymntokat sszetveszd a
kavicsokkal, vagy megtallod ket, vagy nem. A
lts a lnyeg. Hol van a kavics szrkesge, s a
gymnt szpsge, a lts ereje nlkl? Az ismert
csupn egy forma, s az ismeret csupn egy nv.
Az ismer csak egy elmellapot. A valsg ezeken
tl van.
K: Az objektv tuds, a dolgok idei, s az nismeret
bizonyra nem azonos dolgok. Az egyikhez
szksges az agy, a msikhoz nem.
M: Ha vitatkozni akarsz egymshoz fzheted a
szavakat, s jelentst adhatsz nekik, de a tny
vltozatlan marad, hogy minden tuds a tudatlansg
egy formja. A legpontosabb trkp is csak papr
csupn. Minden tuds az emlkezetben van,
megismers csupn, mg a valsg tl van az
ismer s az ismert kettssgn.
K: Akkor hogyan ismerhet meg a valsg?
M: Milyen flrevezet ez a kifejezsmd. Tudat alatt
felttelezed, hogy a valsg is megkzelthet tuds
rvn. s aztn bevezeted a valsgon tli valsg
ismerjt. rtsd meg, ahhoz, hogy legyl nem
szksges ismerni a valsgot. Tudatlansg s
tuds az elmben vannak, nem a valsgban.
K: Ha nem ltezik olyan dolog, mint a valsg
ismerete, akkor hogy rjem el azt?
M: Nem szksges elrned, ami mr veled van.
Valjban ezzel a te elrseddel hibzod el a
dolgot. Add fel az idet, hogy mg nem talltad meg,
s csak hagyd, hogy a kzvetlen rzkels
fkuszba kerljn, itt s most, mindent eltvoltva,
ami az elmbl ered.
K: Amikor minden ami eltvozhat eltvozik, mi
marad?
M: ressg marad, tudat marad, a tudatos lt tiszta
fnye marad. Ez olyan, mint azt krdezni, mi marad
a szobban, miutn a btorokat eltvoltottam? Egy
sokkal hasznlhatbb szoba marad. s amikor mg
a falak is lebontsra kerlnek, a tr marad. A tren
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
remains. Beyond space and time is the here and the s idn tl a valsgnak az ittje, s a mostja.
now of reality.
Q: Does the witness remain?
M: As long as there is consciousness, its witness is
also there. The two appear and disappear together.
Q: If the witness too is transient, why is he given so
much importance?
M: Just to break the spell of the known, the illusion
that only the perceivable is real.
Q: Perception is primary, the witness -- secondary.
M: This is the heart of the matter. As long as you
believe that only the outer world is real, you remain
its slave. To become free, your attention must be
drawn to the 'I am', the witness. Of course, the
knower and the known are one not two, but to break
the spell of the known the knower must be brought
to the forefront. Neither is primary, both are
reflections in memory of the ineffable experience,
ever new and ever now, untranslatable, quicker than
the mind.
Q: Sir, I am an humble seeker, wandering from Guru
to Guru in search of release. My mind is sick,
burning with desire, frozen with fear. My days flit by,
red with pain, grey with boredom. My age is
advancing, my health decaying, my future dark and
frightening. At this rate I shall live in sorrow and die
in despair. Is there any hope for me? Or have I
come too late?
M: Nothing is wrong with you, but the ideas you
have of yourself are altogether wrong. It is not you
who desires, fears and suffers, it is the person built
on the foundation of your body by circumstances
and influences. You are not that person. This must
be clearly established in your mind and never lost
sight of. Normally, it needs a prolonged sadhana,
years of austerities and meditation.
Q: My mind is weak and vacillating. I have neither
the strength nor the tenacity for sadhana. My case,
is hopeless.
M: In a way yours is a most hopeful case. There is
an alternative to sadhana, which is trust. If you
cannot have the conviction born from fruitful search,
then take advantage of my discovery, which I am so
eager to share with you. I can see with the utmost
clarity that you have never been, nor are, nor will be
estranged from realty, that you are the fullness of
perfection here and now and that nothing can
392
K: A tan megmarad?
M: Amg tudatossg van, tanja is marad. A kett
egytt jelenik meg, s tnik el.
K: Ha a tan szintn muland, mirt tulajdontunk
neki olyan nagy fontossgot?
M: Csak azrt, hogy megtrjk a kzismert illzi
varzslatt, hogy csak az szlelhet valsgos.
K: Az szlelet az elsdleges, a tan msodlagos.
M: Ez a problma lnyege. Amg azt hiszed, hogy
csak a kls vilg valsgos, addig szolgja
maradsz neki. A megszabaduls rdekben
figyelmedet az n vagyokra, a tanra kell
fordtanod. Termszetesen az ismer s az ismert
nem kett, hanem egyek, de az ismert varzsnak a
megtrsre eltrbe kell hozni az ismert. Egyik
sem elsdleges, mindkett a szavakkal ki nem
fejezhet tapasztalat emlkezetben val
visszatkrzdse, mindig friss s mindig mostbeli,
lefordthatatlan, gyorsabb, mint az elme.
K: Uram, n egy egyszer keres vagyok, aki a
valsgot keresve Gurutl Guruig vndorol. Elmm
beteg, vgytl g, flelemtl fagyott. Napjaim
elrplnek, fjdalomtl vrsek, unalomtl szrkk.
letkorom elrehalad, egszsgem hanyatlik, jvm
stt, s ijeszt. Ha ez gy megy tovbb,
szomorsgban fogok lni, s ktsgbeessben
fogok meghalni. Van szmomra remny? Vagy tl
ksn jttem?
M: Semmi bajod sincs, csak az nmagadrl alkotott
elkpzelseid teljesen rosszak. Nem te vagy az, aki
vgyik, fl s szenved, a szemly az, aki a
krlmnyek s hatsok szerint megformlt alapra
pl. Te nem a szemly vagy. Ezt vilgosan meg
kell llaptanod, s soha nem szabad szem ell
tvesztened. Rendes krlmnyek kztt
hosszadalmas sadhanra, vekig tart
nmegtartztatsra s meditcira van szksg.
K: Elmm gyenge s ttova. Nincs sem erm, sem
kitartsom a sadhanhoz. Remnytelen eset
vagyok.
M: Bizonyos mdon te vagy a legremnyteljesebb
eset. Van alternatvja a sadhannak, ami a hit. Ha
meggyzdsed nem tud gymlcsz keress
alapjn megszletni, akkor hasznld fel az n
felfedezsemet, amit oly lelkesen meg akarok
osztani veled. A lehet legtisztbban ltom, hogy
soha nem voltl, nem vagy, s nem is leszel
eltvolodva a valsgtl, hogy a tkletessg
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
deprive you of your heritage, of what you are. You
are in no way different from me, only you do not
know it. You do not know what you are and therefore
you imagine your self to be what you are not. Hence
desires and fear and overwhelming despair. And
meaningless activity in order to escape.
Just trust me and live by trusting me. I shall not
mislead you. You are the Supreme Reality beyond
the world and its creator, beyond consciousness and
its witness, beyond all assertions and denials.
Remember it, think of it, act on it. Abandon all sense
of separation, see yourself in all and act accordingly.
With action bliss will come and, with bliss,
conviction. After all, you doubt yourself because you
are in sorrow. Happiness, natural, spontaneous and
lasting cannot be imagined. Either it is there, or it is
not. Once you begin to experience the peace, love
and happiness which need no outer causes, all your
doubts will dissolve. Just catch hold of what I told
you and live by it.
Q: You are telling me to live by memory?
M: You are living by memory anyhow. I am merely
asking you to replace the old memories by the
memory of what I told you. As you were acting on
your old memories, act on the new one. Don't be
afraid. For some time there is bound to be a conflict
between the old and the new, but if you put yourself
resolutely on the side of the new, the strife will soon
come to an end and you will realise the effortless
state of being oneself, of not being deceived by
desires and fears born of illusion.
Q: Many Gurus have the habit of giving tokens of
their grace -- their head cloth, or their sticks, or
begging bowl, or robe, thus transmitting or
confirming the self-realisation of their disciples. I can
see no value in such practices. It is not self-
realisation that is transmitted, but self-importance.
Of what earthly use is being told something very
flattering, but not true? On one hand you are
warning me against the many self-styled Gurus, on
the other you want me to trust you. Why do you
claim to be an exception?
M: I do not ask you to trust me. Trust my words and
remember them, I want your happiness, not mine.
Distrust those who put a distance between you and
your true being and offer themselves as a go-
between. I do nothing of the kind. I do not even
make any promises. I merely say: if you trust my
words and put them to test, you will for yourself
discover how absolutely true they are. If you ask for
a proof before you venture, I can only say: I am the
proof. I did trust my teacher's words and kept them
393
teljessge vagy, itt s most, s hogy semmi nem tud
megfosztani tged az rksgedtl, attl, ami vagy.
A legkevsb sem klnbzl tlem, csak nem
tudod. Nem tudod, mi vagy, ezrt annak kpzeled
magad, ami nem vagy. Ebbl erednek vgyaid s
flelmeid, s nyomaszt ktsgbeessed. s
rtelmetlen cselekedetek a menekls rdekben.
Csak higgy nekem, s lj a belm vetett hitedbl.
Nem csaplak be. Te vagy a Legfelsbb Valsg, tl
a vilgon s annak teremtjn, tl a tudatossgon
s annak tanjn, tl minden lltson s tagadson.
Emlkezz erre, gondolj erre, cselekedj eszerint.
Hagyj fel az elklnltsg minden rzsvel, lsd
magad mindenben, s cselekedj ennek megfelelen.
A cselekvssel el fog jnni a boldogsg, s a
boldogsggal a meggyzds. Vgl is azrt
ktelkedsz nmagadban, mert szomor vagy. A
termszetes, spontn s maradand boldogsgot
nem tudod elkpzelni. Az vagy van, vagy nincs.
Amint elkezded tapasztalni a bkt, szeretetet s a
kls okok nlkli boldogsgot, minden ktsged
szertefoszlik. Csak rtsd meg, amit elmondtam
neked, s lj vele.
K: Azt mondod, hogy emlkeim alapjn ljek?
M: Klnben is emlkeid alapjn lsz. n pusztn
arra krlek, a rgi emlkeket vltsd fel azokkal az
emlkekkel, amelyeket n mondtam neked. Ahogy a
rgi emlkek alapjn cselekedtl, gy cselekedj az
jak szerint. Ne flj. Egy ideig konfliktusok lehetnek
a rgi s az j kztt, de ha elszntan az j oldalra
llsz, a kzdelem hamarosan vget r, s
tapasztalni fogod az nmagadknt val lt, az
illzik szlte vgyak, s flelmek becsapstl
mentes lt erfeszts mentes llapott.
K: Sok Gurunak szoksa, hogy tadja kegyelmnek
a jelt fejfedjt, botjt, vagy koldul ednyt,
vagy kntst, gy adja tovbb, vagy ersti meg a
tantvny n-megvalstst. n nem ltom hasznt
az ilyen praktikknak. Ez nem az n-megvalsts
tovbb adsa, hanem fontoskods. Mi az evilgi
haszna, ha mond valamilyen hzelgt, s az nem
igaz? Egyfell figyelmeztetsz, hogy sok az njellt
Guru, msfell azt szeretnd, ha hinnk neked.
Mirt lpsz fel azzal az ignnyel, hogy te vagy a
kivtel?
M: Nem krlek, hogy bennem higgy. Azt hidd el,
amit mondok, s arra emlkezz, neked akarok
boldogsgot, nem magamnak. Azokkal szemben
lgy bizalmatlan, akik klnbsget tesznek kzted
s az igaz lt kztt, s a ketttk kztti
kzvettnek ajnlkoznak. n nem csinlok semmi
ilyesmit. n mg csak nem is grek semmit. n
csupn azt mondom: ha elhiszed amit mondok, s
prbnak veted al, te magad fogod felfedezni, hogy
azok milyen abszolt igazak. Ha bizonytkot krsz,
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
in my mind and I did find that he was right, that I
was, am and shall be the Infinite Reality, embracing
all, transcending all.
As you say, you have neither the time nor the
energy for lengthy practices. I offer you an
alternative. Accept my words on trust and live anew,
or live and die in sorrow.
Q: It seems too good to be true.
M: Don't be misled by the simplicity of the advice.
Very few are those who have the courage to trust
the innocent and the simple. To know that you are a
prisoner of your mind, that you live in an imaginary
world of your own creation is the dawn of wisdom.
To want nothing of it, to be ready to abandon it
entirely, is earnestness. Only such earnestness,
born of true despair, will make you trust me.
Q: Have l not suffered enough?
M: Suffering has made you dull, unable to see its
enormity. Your first task is to see the sorrow in you
and around you; your next to long intensely for
liberation. The very intensity of longing will guide
you; you need no other guide.
Q: Suffering has made me dull, indifferent even to
itself.
M: Maybe it is not sorrow but pleasure that made
you dull. Investigate.
Q: Whatever may be the cause; I am dull. I have
neither the will nor the energy.
M: Oh, no. You have enough for the first step. And
each step will generate enough energy for the next.
Energy comes with confidence and confidence
comes with experience.
Q: Is it right to change Gurus?
M: Why not change? Gurus are like milestones. It is
natural to move on from one to another. Each tells
you the direction and the distance, while the
sadguru, the eternal Guru, is the road itself. Once
you realise that the road is the goal and that you are
always on the road, not to reach a goal, but to enjoy
its beauty and its wisdom, life ceases to be a task
and becomes natural and simple, in itself an
ecstasy.
394
mieltt kockztatnl, csak azt tudom mondani: n
vagyok a bizonytk. n hittem tantm szavainak,
s emlkezetemben tartottam azokat, s gy
talltam, hogy igaza van, hogy n voltam, vagyok,
s leszek a mindent tlel, mindent meghalad
Vgtelen Valsg.
Ahogyan mondod, neked sem idd, sem energid
hosszadalmas gyakorlatokra. n alternatvt knlok
neked. Fogadd szavaimat bizalommal, s lj jbl,
vagy lj, s halj meg szomorsgban.
K: Ez tl szp ahhoz, hogy igaz lehessen.
M: Ne tvesszen meg a tancs egyszersge.
Nagyon kevesek azok, akik rendelkeznek a
btorsggal, hogy elhiggyk, ami termszetes s
egyszer. Tudni, hogy elmd foglya vagy, hogy egy
ltalad teremtett, kpzelet alkotta vilgban lsz a
blcsessg kezdete. Semmit nem akarni tle,
kszen llni teljesen elhagyni azt komolysg. Csak
az ilyen, valdi ktsgbeess szlte komolysg
rvn fogsz hinni nekem.
K: Nem szenvedtem mg eleget?
M: A szenveds tompv tett, kptelen vagy
szrevenni annak szrnysgt. Els feladatod,
szrevenni a szomorsgot magadban, s
krltted; a msodik, mrhetetlenl vgydni a
szabadsg irnt. A teljes intenzits vgyds
vezetni fog tged; nincs szksged ms vezetre.
K: Engem tompv tett a szenveds, mg sajt
magval szemben is kznyss tett.
M: Lehet, hogy nem a szomorsg, hanem az rm
az, ami tompv tett. Vizsgld meg.
K: Brmi is az oka, eltompultam. Sem akaratom,
sem energim.
M: , nem. Elegend van benned, hogy megtedd az
els lpst. s minden lps elegend energit fog
termelni a kvetkezhz. Az energia az
nbizalommal jn, s az nbizalom a tapasztalattal.
K: Helyes dolog, ha Gurut vltoztatok?
M: Mirt ne vltoztatnl? A Guruk akr a
mrfldkvek. Termszetes dolog, hogy egyiktl a
msikhoz msz. Mindegyik megmondja neked az
irnyt s a tvolsgot, mg a sadguru, az rkkval
Guru, az t maga. Amint felismered, hogy az t a
cl, s hogy mindig az ton vagy, nem clt kell
elrni, hanem lvezni annak szpsgt, s
blcsessgt, az let megsznik feladatnak lenni, s
termszetess, s egyszerv vlik, nmagtl val
elragadtatss.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: So, there is no need to worship, to pray, to
practice Yoga?
M: A little of daily sweeping, washing and bathing
can do no harm. Self-awareness tells you at every
step what needs be done. When all is done, the
mind remains quiet.
Now you are in the waking state, a person with
name and shape, joys and sorrows. The person was
not there before you were born, nor will be there
after you die. Instead of struggling with the person to
make it become what it is not, why not go beyond
the waking state and leave the personal life
altogether? It does not mean the extinction of the
person; it means only seeing it in right perspective.
Q: One more question. You said that before I was
born I was one with the pure being of reality; if so,
who decided that I should be born?
M: In reality you were never born and never shall
die. But now you imagine that you are, or have a
body and you ask what has brought about this state.
Within the limits of illusion the answer is: desire born
from memory attracts you to a body and makes you
think as one with it. But this is true only from the
relative point of view. In fact, there is no body, nor a
world to contain it; there is only a mental condition, a
dream-like state, easy to dispel by questioning its
reality.
Q: After you die, will you come again? If I live long
enough, will I meet you again?
M: To you the body is real, to me there is none. I, as
you see me, exist in your imagination only. Surely,
you will see me again, if and when you need me. It
does not affect me, as the Sun is not affected by
sunrises and sunsets. Because it is not affected, it is
certain to be there when needed.
You are bent on knowledge, I am not. I do not have
that sense of insecurity that makes you crave to
know. I am curious, like a child is curious. But there
is no anxiety to make me seek refuge in knowledge.
Therefore, I am not concerned whether I shall be
reborn, or how long will the world last. These are
questions born of fear.
84. Your Goal is Your Guru
395
K: Teht nincs szksg istenimdsra,
imdkozsra, Yoga gyakorlsra?
M: Egy kevs napi sprgets, moss, s lemoss
nem okozhat krt. Az n-tudat megsg minden
lpst, amit meg kell lpned. Amikor minden ksz,
az elme csendes marad.
Most az brenlti llapotban egy szemly vagy
nvvel s formval, rmkkel s szomorsgokkal.
A szemly nem ltezett a szletsed eltt, s a
hallod utn sem fog ltezni. Ahelyett, hogy a
szemllyel kzdesz, hogy talaktsd, mirt nem
lpsz tl az brenlti llapoton, s hagyod el
teljesen a szemlyes letet? Ez nem a szemly
megszntetst jelenti, csak annak megfelel
perspektvbl val szemllst.
K: Mg egy krds. Azt mondtad, mieltt
megszlettem egy voltam a valsg tiszta ltvel; ha
gy van, ki dnttt gy, hogy meg kell szletnem?
M: A valsgban soha nem szlettl, s soha nem
fogsz meghalni. De most azt kpzeled, hogy vagy,
illetve, hogy tested van, s azt krdezed, hogy mi
idzte el ezt az llapotot. Az illzi korltai kztt a
vlasz ez: az emlkekbl szletett vgy egy testhez
vonz tged, s azt gondolod, hogy egy vagy vele.
De ez csak egy viszonylagos nzpontbl igaz.
Valjban nincs test, sem a vilg, amely azt
magban foglalja; csak mentlis kondci van, egy
lomszer llapot, amelyet valsgnak kutatsval
knny eloszlatni.
K: Miutn meghalsz, vissza fogsz jnni jra? Ha
elg hossz ideig lek, fogok veled ismt tallkozni?
M: Szmodra a test valsgos, szmomra nem
ltezik. n, ahogy te engem ltsz, csak a
kpzeletedben ltezem. Bizonyra ltni fogsz
megint, ha s amikor szksged van rm. Ez rm
nincs hatssal, mint ahogy a Napra sincsenek
hatssal a napfelkeltk s a naplementk. Mivel
nincs hatssal, biztosan leszek, mikor szksg lesz
r.
Te hajlasz a tudsra, n nem. Bennem nincs meg az
a bizonytalansg rzs, ami a te szmodra a tudst
szksgess teszi. n is kvncsi vagyok, mint
ahogyan egy gyermek kvncsi. De nincs bennem
vgyakozs, hogy menedket keressek a tudsban.
Ezrt engem nem rdekel, hogy jjszletek-e, vagy
hogy mennyi ideig tart a vilg. Ezek flelembl
szlet krdsek.
84. Clod a Gurud
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Questioner: You were telling us that there are many
self-styled Gurus, but a real Guru is very rare. There
are many gnani who imagine themselves realised,
but all they have is book knowledge and a high
opinion of themselves. Sometimes they impress,
even fascinate, attract disciples and make them
waste their time in useless practices. After some
years, when the disciple takes stock of himself, he
finds no change. When he complains to his teacher,
he gets the usual rebuke that he did not try hard
enough. The blame is on the lack of faith and love in
the heart of the disciple, while in reality the blame is
on the Guru, who had no business in accepting
disciples and raising their hopes. How to protect
oneself from such Gurus?
Maharaj: Why be so concerned with others?
Whoever may be the Guru, if he is pure of heart and
acts in good faith, he will do his disciples no harm. If
there is no progress, the fault lies with the disciples,
their laziness and lack of self-control. On the other
hand, if the disciple is earnest and applies himself
intelligently and with zest to his sadhana, he is
bound to meet a more qualified teacher, who will
take him further. Your question flows from three
false assumptions: that one needs concern oneself
with others; that one can evaluate another and that
the progress of the disciple is the task and
responsibility of his Guru. In reality, the Guru's role is
only to instruct and encourage; the disciple is totally
responsible for himself.
Q: We are told that total surrender to the Guru is
enough, that the Guru will do the rest.
M: Of course, when there is total surrender,
complete relinquishment of all concern with one's
past, presents and future, with one's physical and
spiritual security and standing, a new life dawns, full
of love and beauty; then the Guru is not important,
for the disciple has broken the shell of self-defence.
Complete self-surrender by itself is liberation.
Q: When both the disciple and his teacher are
inadequate, what will happen?
M: In the long run all will be well. After all, the real
Self of both is not affected by the comedy they play
for a time. They will sober up and ripen and shift to a
higher level of relationship.
Q: Or, they may separate.
M: Yes, they may separate. After all, no relationship
is forever. Duality is a temporary state.
Q: Is it by accident that I met you and by another
396
Krdez: Azt meslted neknk, hogy sok az njellt
Guru, de a valdi Guru nagyon ritka. Sok olyan
gnani van, aki csak kpzeli magt megvalsultnak,
de mindegyik csak knyvbl szerezte a tudst, s
igen nagyra vannak magukkal. Idnknt nagy
hatssal vannak a magukhoz vonzott tantvnyokra,
st, megigzik ket, akiknek az idejt haszontalan
gyakorlatokkal vesztegetik. Amikor a tantvny
nhny v utn szemgyre veszi magt, semmilyen
vltozst nem tall. Mikor ezt szv teszi, tantja
rendszerint rendreutastja, hogy nem gyakorolt elg
kemnyen. A tantvny szvbl hinyz hitet s
szeretetet okolja, mikzben a hiba valjban a
Guruban van, akinek nem az a szerepe, hogy
tantvnyokat fogadjon, s remnyt tmasszon
bennk. Hogyan kell vdekezni az ilyen Guruk
ellen?
Maharaj: Mirt rintenek ennyire msok? Akrki
lehet a Guru, ha tiszta szv, s jhiszemen
cselekszik, nem fog rtani a tantvnyainak. Ha nem
halad, a tantvnyban van a hiba, mivel lusta, s
hinyzik az nuralma. Msfell, ha a tantvny
komoly, s intelligens mdon s lvezettel
alkalmazza sadhanjt, akkor kszen ll egy sokkal
alkalmasabb tantval val tallkozsra, aki tovbb
fogja vezetni t. Krdsed hrom tves feltevsbl
ered: hogy az embereknek trdnik kell egymssal,
hogy az ember rtkelni tudja a msikat, s hogy a
tantvnynak a haladsa a Guru feladata s
felelssge. Valjban a Guru szerepe csak annyi,
hogy tba igaztson s btortson; a tantvny teljes
felelssggel tartozik nmagrt.
K: gy hallottuk, hogy elegend a Gurunak val
teljes ntads, s hogy a tbbi a Guru dolga.
M: Termszetesen, teljes ntads esetn az ember
mltjnak, jelennek s jvjnek, fizikai s
spiritulis biztonsgnak s llapotnak tkletes
feladsval egy j, szeretettel s szpsggel teli let
kezddik; ezutn a Guru nem fontos, mert a
tantvny feltrte az nvdelem burkt. A teljes
akarat feladsa maga a szabadsg.
K: Amikor mind a tantvny, mind a tant
alkalmatlan, mi trtnik?
M: Hossz tvon minden j lesz. Elvgre egyikk
valdi njre sincs hatssal a sznjtk, amit egy
jtszottak egy ideig. Meg fognak komolyodni, meg
fognak rni, s a kapcsolat magasabb szintjre
fognak kerlni.
K: Vagy esetleg klnvlnak.
M: Igen, klnvlhatnak. Vgl is egyetlen kapcsolat
sem tart rkk. A kettssg ideiglenes llapot.
K: Vletlen lenne, hogy tallkoztam veled, s egy
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
accident shall we separate never to meet again? Or
is my meeting you a part of some cosmic pattern, a
fragment in the great drama of our lives?
M: The real is meaningful and the meaningful relates
to reality. If our relationship is meaningful to you and
me, it cannot be accidental. The future affects the
present as much, as the past.
Q: How can I make out who is a real saint and who
is not?
M: You cannot, unless you have a clear insight into
the heart of man. Appearances are deceptive. To
see clearly, your mind must be pure and unattached.
Unless you know yourself well, how can you know
another? And when you know yourself -- you are the
other.
Leave others alone for some time and examine
yourself. There are so many things you do not know
about yourself -- what are you, who are you, how did
you come to be born, what are you doing now and
why, where are you going, what is the meaning and
purpose of your life, your death, your future? Have
you a past, have you a future? How did you come to
live in turmoil and sorrow, while your entire being
strives for happiness and peace? These are weighty
matters and have to be attended to first. You have
no need, nor time for finding who is a gnani and who
is not?
Q: I must select my guru rightly.
M: Be the right man and the right Guru will surely
find you.
Q: You are not answering my question: how to find
the right Guru?
M: But I did answer your question. Do not look for a
Guru, do not even think of one. Make your goal your
Guru. After all, the Guru is but a means to an end,
not the end in itself. He is not important, it is what
you expect of him that matters to you. Now, what do
you expect?
Q: By his grace I shall be made happy, powerful and K: Az kegyelme ltal boldogg, hatalmass, s
peaceful. bkss fogok vlni.
M: What ambitions. How can a person limited in time
and space, a mere body-mind, a gasp of pain
between birth and death, be happy? The very
conditions of its arising make happiness impossible.
Peace, power, happiness, these are never personal
states, nobody can say my peace, my power --
because mine implies exclusivity, which is fragile
and insecure.
397
msik vletlen rvn el fogunk vlni, hogy soha
tbb ne tallkozzunk? Vagy tallkozsunk
valamilyen kozmikus minta rsze, letnk nagy
szndarabjnak a rszlete?
M: A valsg jelentsgteljes, s a jelentsgteljes
a valsgra utal. Ha kapcsolatunk jelentsgteljes a
te szmodra s az n szmomra, az nem lehet
vletlen. A jv ugyanannyira hat a jelenre, mint a
mltra.
K: Hogyan tudom eldnteni, hogy ki valdi szent, s
ki nem az?
M: Nem tudod, kivve, ha tiszta bepillantsod van
az emberi szvbe. A ltszat megtveszt. Hogy,
tisztn lss, elmdnek szntisztnak, s szabadnak
kell lennie. Ha nmagadat nem jl ismered, hogy
ismerhetnd a msikat? s amikor ismered
nmagadat te vagy a msik.
Hagyd magukra a tbbieket egy ideig, s vizsgld
meg nmagad. Oly sok dolog van, amit nem tudsz
nmagadrl mi vagy, ki vagy, hogyan szlettl
meg, mit csinlsz most, s mirt, hov msz, mi a
jelentse s a clja letednek, hallodnak,
jvdnek? Van-e mltad, van-e jvd? Hogyan
felfordult fel az leted s vlt szomorsgg, noha
egsz letedben boldogsgra s bkre trekedtl?
Ezek slyos problmk, s elszr ezeknek kell
figyelmet szentelned. Sem szksged, sem idd
arra, hogy felismerd, ki gnani, s ki nem az.
K: Alkalmas Gurut kell vlasztanom magamnak.
M: Lgy az alkalmas ember, s az alkalmas Guru
biztosan rd tall.
K: Nem vlaszoltl a krdsemre: hogyan talljam
meg az alkalmas Gurut?
M: De vlaszoltam a krdsedre. Ne keress Gurut,
mg csak ne is gondolj r. Tedd a clodat a
Gurudd. Vgl is a Guru a cl elrsnek az
eszkze csupn, nem ncl. Nem a fontos, hanem
amit tle vrsz, az a lnyeges szmodra. Nos, mi az,
amit vrsz?
M: Micsoda ambcik. Hogy lehetne boldog egy
idben s trben korltozott, puszta test-elme, egy
szlets s hall kztt a fjdalomtl fulladoz
szemly? Valjban keletkezsnek a felttelei
teszik lehetetlenn a boldogsgot. Bke, hatalom,
boldogsg, ezek soha nem szemlyes llapotok,
senki nem mondhatja, hogy az n bkm, az n
hatalmam mivel az enym kizrlagossgot von
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: I know only my conditioned existence; there is
nothing else.
M: Surely, you cannot say so. In deep sleep you are
not conditioned. How ready and willing you are to go
to sleep, how peaceful, free and happy you are
when asleep.
Q: I know nothing of it.
M: Put it negatively. When you sleep, you are not in
pain, nor bound, nor restless.
Q: I see your point. While awake, I know that I am,
but am not happy; in sleep I am, I am happy, but I
dont know it. All I need is to know that I am free and
happy.
M: Quite so. Now, go within, into a state which you
may compare to a state of waking sleep, in which
you are aware of yourself, but not of the world. In
that state you will know, without the least trace of
doubt, that at the root of your being you are free and
happy. The only trouble is that you are addicted to
experience and you cherish your memories. In
reality it is the other way round; what is remembered
is never real; the real is now.
Q: All this I grasp verbally, but it does not become a
part of myself. It remains as a picture in my mind to
be looked at. Is it not the task of the Guru to give life
to the picture?
M: Again, it is the other way round. The picture is
alive; dead is the mind. As the mind is made of
words and images, so is every reflection in the mind.
It covers up reality with verbalisation and then
complains. You say a Guru is needed, to do
miracles with you. You are playing with words only.
The Guru and the disciple are one single thing, like
the candle and its flame. Unless the disciple is
earnest, he cannot be called a disciple. Unless a
Guru is all love and self-giving, he cannot be called
a Guru. Only reality begets reality, not the false.
Q: I can see that I am false. Who will make me true? K: Ltom, hogy valtlan vagyok. Ki fog engem
igazz tenni?
M: The very words you said will do it. The sentence:
I can see that I am false contains all you need for
liberation. Ponder over it, go into it deeply, go to the
root of it; it will operate. The power is in the word,
not in the person.
398
maga utn, amely trkeny, s bizonytalan.
K: Csak az n kondicionlt ltezsemet ismerem,
semmi mst.
M: Biztos, hogy nem mondhatod ezt. Mly alvsban
nem vagy kondicionlt. Milyen kszsggel, s
hajlandsggal hajtod lomra a fejed, milyen bks,
szabad, s boldog vagy, amikor alszol.
K: Nem tudok errl.
M: Fejezd ki tagadlagosan. Amikor alszol, nem
szenvedsz, sem korltozott, sem nyugtalan nem
vagy.
K: rtem, hogy mire utalsz. Amg bren vagyok,
tudom, hogy n vagyok, de nem vagyok boldog;
alvs kzben vagyok, boldog vagyok, de nem tudok
rla. Mindssze arra van szksgem, hogy tudjam,
szabad vagyok, s boldog.
M: gy van. Most menj befel, abba az llapotba,
amelyben hasonlthatod az ber alvs llapothoz,
amelyben tudatban vagy nmagadnak, a vilgnak
viszont nem. Abban az llapotban a ktsg
legcseklyebb nyoma nlkl tudni fogod, hogy lted
gykern szabad vagy, s boldog. Az egyetlen
nehzsg, hogy rabja vagy a tapasztalsnak, s
csggesz az emlkeiden. A valsgban az egy
egszen ms t; amire emlkszel, az soha nem a
valsg; a valsg most van.
K: A szavak szintjn felfogom mindezt, de nem vlik
nnn rszemm. Mintegy kpknt megmarad az
elmmben, ami megnzhet. Nem a Guru feladata,
hogy letre keltse a kpet?
M: Ismtlem, ms az t. A kp l, az elme halott.
Mivel az elme szavakbl s kpekbl ll, gy minden
visszatkrzs az elmben van. A valsgot
verbalizcival leplezi el, s utna sirnkozik. Azt
mondod, Gurura van szksged, hogy csodkat
tegyen veled. Csak a szavakkal jtszol. A Guru s a
tantvny egyetlen egysges dolog, mint gyertya, s
fnye. Hacsak a tantvny nem komoly, nem
nevezhet tantvnynak. Hacsak a Guru nem szeret
teljesen, s nem odaad, nem nevezhet Gurunak.
Csak valsg hoz ltre valsgot, a valtlan nem.
M: Az ltalad kimondott szavak fogjk azt megtenni.
A mondat: Ltom, hogy valtlan vagyok, mindent
magban foglal, ami a megszabadulsodhoz kell.
Elmlkedj el rajta, merlj bele mlyen, hatolj a
gykerig; mkdni fog. Az er a szban van, nem a
szemlyben.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: I do not grasp you fully. On one hand you say a
Guru is needed; on the other -- the Guru can only
give advice, bit the effort is mine. Please state
clearly -- can one realise the Self without a Guru, or
is the finding of a true Guru essential?
M: More essential is the finding of a true disciple.
Believe me, a true disciple is very rare, for in no time
he goes beyond the need for a Guru, by finding his
own self. Dont waste your time on trying to make
out whether the advice you get flows from
knowledge only, or from valid experience. Just follow
it faithfully. Life will bring you another Guru, if
another one is needed. Or deprive you of all outer
guidance and leave you to your own lights. It is very
important to understand that it is the teaching that
matters, not the person or the Guru. You get a letter
that makes you laugh or cry. It is not the postman
who does it. The Guru only tells you the good news
about your real Self and shows you the way back to
it. In a way the Guru is its messenger. There will be
many messengers, but the message is one: be what
you are. Or, you can put it differently: Until you
realise yourself, you cannot know who is your real
Guru. When you realise, you find that all the Gurus
you had have contributed to your awakening. Your
realisation is the proof that your Guru was real.
Therefore, take him as he is, do what he tells you,
with earnestness and zeal and trust your heart to
warn you if anything goes wrong. If doubt sets in,
dont fight it. Cling to what is doubtless and leave the
doubtful alone.
Q: I have a Guru and I love him very much. But
whether he is my true Guru I do not know.
M: Watch yourself. If you see yourself changing,
growing, it means you have found the right man. He
may be beautiful or ugly, pleasant or unpleasant,
flattering you or scolding; nothing matters except the
one crucial fact of inward growth. If you dont, well,
he may be your friend, but not your Guru.
Q: When I meet a European with some education
and talk to him about a Guru and his teachings, his
reaction is: the man must be mad to teach such
nonsense. What am I to tell him?
M: Take him to himself. Show him, how little he
knows himself, how he takes the most absurd
statements about himself for holy truth. He is told
that he is the body, was born, will die, has parents,
duties, learns to like what others like and fear what
others fear. Totally a creature of heredity and
society, he lives by memory and acts by habits.
Ignorant of himself and his true interests, he pursues
false aims and is always frustrated. His life and
399
K: Nem teljesen rtelek. Egyfell azt mondod, q
Guru szksges; msfell a Guru csak tancsot
ad, az erfeszts az enym. Krlek, jelentsd ki
vilgosan az n megvalsulhat Guru nlkl, vagy
pedig fontos, hogy megtalljam az igazi Gurut?
M: Sokkal fontosabb, hogy megtalld az igaz
tantvnyt. Higgy nekem, az igaz tantvny nagyon
ritka, mert pillanatok alatt tllp a Guru szksgn,
megtallva sajt njt. Ne arra fecsreld az iddet,
hogy megprblod megrteni, a kapott tancs
pusztn tanult tudsbl ered, vagy valdi
tapasztalatbl. Csak kvesd azt odaadan. Az let
el fog vinni egy msik Guruhoz, ha msikra van
szksged. Vagy mellzd az sszes kls
tmutatst, s hagyatkozz a sajt vilgossgodra.
Nagyon fontos megrtened, hogy a tants a lnyeg,
nem a szemly, vagy a Guru. Kapsz egy levelet,
amely megnevettet, vagy megrkat. Ezt nem a
posts tette. A Guru csupn elmondja neked a
valdi neddel kapcsolatos j hrt, s megmutatja a
visszavezet utat hozz. Bizonyos rtelemben a
Guru az hrvivje. Sokan lehetnek hrvivk, de az
zenet ugyanaz: lgy, ami vagy. Vagy mskppen is
fogalmazhatunk: amg nem valstod meg nmagad,
addig nem tudhatod, ki a valdi Gurud. Amikor
megvalsulsz, gy tallod, hogy Guruid mindegyike
hozzjrult a felbredsedhez. A megvalsulsod a
bizonytk, hogy Gurud igazi volt. Ezrt fogadd el t,
ahogy van, tedd, amit mond neked, komolyan, s
lelkesen, s bzz a szvedben, hogy figyelmeztetni
fog, brmi baj rjen. Ha ktelkedni kezdesz, ne
harcolj vele. Ragaszkodj ahhoz, ami ktsgtelen, s
hagyd bkn a ktsgest.
K: Nekem van Gurum, s nagyon szeretem t. De
hogy -e vajon az n igazi Gurum, nem tudom.
M: Figyeld magad. Ha vltozni, nvekedni ltod
magad, akkor a megfelel embert talltad meg.
Lehet szp, vagy csnya, kellemes, vagy
kellemetlen, hzelg vagy korhol; semmi nem
szmt, egy kritikus tny kivtelvel, ez a bels
nvekeds. Ha nem nvekszel, nos, akkor lehet j
bartod, de Gurud nem.
K: Tallkoztam egyszer egy mvelt eurpaival, s
mesltem neki a Gururl s tantsairl, a reakcija
ez volt: rltnek kell lenni ahhoz, hogy az ember
ilyen rtelmetlensget tanuljon. Mit mondjak neki?
M: Vezesd el t nmaghoz. Mutasd meg neki,
milyen kevss ismeri nmagt, hogyan tartja az
nmagrl szl legkptelenebb kijelentseket a
legszentebb igazsgnak. Azt mondtk neki, hogy a
test, megszletett, meg fog halni, szlei vannak,
ktelessgei, megtanulta szeretni, amit msok
szeretnek, s flni, amit msok flnek. Teljesen az
rkls s a trsadalom teremtmnye, emlkezetbl
l, s megszoksbl tnykedik. Nincs tudatban
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
death are meaningless and painful, and there seems
to be no way out. Then tell him, there is a way out
within his easy reach, not a conversion to another
set of ideas, but a liberation from all ideas and
patterns of living. Dont tell him about Gurus and
disciples -- this way of thinking is not for him. His is
an inner path, he is moved by an inner urge and
guided by an inner light. Invite him to rebel and he
will respond. Do not try to impress on him that so-
and-so is a realised man and can be accepted as a
Guru. As long as he does not trust himself, he
cannot trust another. And confidence will come with
experience.
Q: How strange. I cannot imagine life without a
Guru.
M: It is a matter of temperament. You too are right.
For you, singing the praises of God is enough. You
need not desire realisation or take up a sadhana.
Gods name is all the food you need. Live on it.
Q: This constant repetition of a few words, is it not a
kind of madness?
M: It is madness, but it is a deliberate madness. All
repetitiveness is tamas, but repeating the name of
God is sattva-tamas due to its high purpose.
Because of the presence of sattva, the tamas will
wear out and will take the shape of complete
dispassion, detachment, relinquishment, aloofness,
immutability. Tamas becomes the firm foundation on
which an integrated life can be lived.
Q: The immutable -- does it die?
M: It is changing that dies. The immutable neither
lives nor dies; it is the timeless witness of life and
death. You cannot call it dead, for it is aware. Nor
can you call it alive, for it does not change. It is just
like your tape-recorder. It records, it reproduces -- all
by itself. You only listen. Similarly, I watch all that
happens, including my talking to you. It is not me
who talks, the words appear in my mind and then I
hear them said.
Q: Is it not the case with everybody?
M: Who said no? But you insist that you think, you
speak, while to me there is thinking, there is
speaking.
Q: There are two cases to consider. Either I have K: Kt eseten kell elgondolkozni. Vagy talltam
found a Guru, or I have not. In each case what is the Gurut, vagy nem. Mi a helyes teend ezen
400
nmagnak, s igazi jelentsgnek, hamis clokat
hajszol, s mindig frusztrlt. lete s halla
rtelmetlen, s fjdalmas, s nem ltszik semmifle
kit. Majd mondd el neki, hogy ltezik kit, amely
knnyen hozzfrhet a szmra, amely nem
valamifle ttrs az idek egy msik halmazra,
hanem megszabaduls az sszes idetl, s
letminttl. Ne beszlj neki Gurukrl, s
tantvnyokrl ez a gondolkodsmd nem neki
val. Az tja bels t, t bels ksztets hajtja, s
bels fny vezrli. Hvd fel t a lzadsra, ez
hatssal lesz r. Ne olyan mdon prblj hatst
gyakorolni r, hogy ez-s-ez megvalsult ember, s
elfogadhat Gurunak. Amg nem hisz nmagnak,
addig msnak sem tud hinni. s a bizalom meg fog
rkezni a tapasztalattal.
K: Milyen klns. n el sem tudom elkpzelni az
letet Guru nlkl.
M: Ez alkat krdse. Neked is igazad van. Mivel
szmodra az Istent magasztal nekek neklse
elegend. Neked nincs szksged r, hogy
megvalsulsra, vagy sadhana kvetsre vgyj.
Isten neve elegend tpllk szmodra. lj ezzel.
K: Ez a nhny szbl ll lland ismtelgets
nem valamifle rlet?
M: rlet, de szndkos rlet. Minden ismtlds
tamas, de Isten nevnek ismtlse sattva-tamas,
annak emelkedett clja miatt. A sattva jelenlte miatt
a tamas el fog kopni, s helyt t fogja adni a teljes
szenvedlytelensgnek, prtatlansgnak,
nfeladsnak, kzmbssgnek,
megvltozhatatlansgnak. A tamas vlik azon
szilrd alapp, amelyen egy integrlt let lhet.
K: A megvltozhatatlan meghal?
M: A vltozs az, amely meghal. A
megvltozhatatlan sem nem l, sem nem hal,
hanem let s hall idtlen tanja. Nem nevezheted
halottnak, mert tudatos. lnek sem nevezheted,
mert nem vltozik. ppen olyan, mint a
magnetofonod. Felvesz, lejtszik mindezt magtl.
Te csupn hallgatod. Hasonlkppen figyelek n
minden trtnst, belertve a veled val
beszlgetsemet. Nem n vagyok, aki beszl, a
szavak megjelennek az elmmben, majd hallom
ket, hogy kimondsra kerlnek.
K: Nem mindenkivel ez a helyzet?
M: Ki mondta, hogy nem? De te bizonygatod, hogy
te gondolkodsz, te beszlsz, mg szmomra
gondolkods trtnik, beszd trtnik.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
right thing to do?
M: You are never without a Guru, for he is timelessly
present in your heart. Sometimes he externalises
himself and comes to you as an uplifting and
reforming factor in your life, a mother, a wife, a
teacher; or he remains as an inner urge toward
righteousness and perfection. All you have to do is
obey him and do what he tells you. What he wants
you to do is simple, learn self-awareness, self-
control, self-surrender. It may seem arduous, but it is
easy if you are earnest. And quite impossible if you
are not. Earnestness is both necessary and
sufficient. Everything yields to earnestness.
Q: What makes one earnest?
M: Compassion is the foundation of earnestness.
Compassion for yourself and others, born of
suffering, your own and others.
Q: Must I suffer to be earnest?
M: You need not, if you are sensitive and respond to
the suffering of others, as Buddha did. But if you are
callous and without pity, your own suffering will
make you ask the inevitable questions.
Q: I find myself suffering, but not enough. Life is
unpleasant, but bearable. My little pleasures
compensate me for my small pains and on the whole
I am better off than most of the people I know. I
know that my condition is precarious, that a calamity
can overtake me any moment. Must I wait for a crisis
to put me on my way to truth?
M: The moment you have seen how fragile is your
condition, you are already alert. Now, keep alert,
give attention, enquire, investigate, discover your
mistakes of mind and body and abandon them.
Q: Where is the energy to come from? I am like a
paralysed man in a burning house.
M: Even paralysed people sometimes find their legs
in a moment of danger. But you are not paralysed,
you merely imagine so. Make the first step and you
will be on your way.
Q: I feel my hold on the body is so strong that I just
cannot give up the idea that I am the body. It will
cling to me as long as the body lasts. There are
people who maintain that no realisation is possible
while alive and I feel inclined to agree with them.
M: Before you agree or disagree, why not
401
esetekben?
M: Soha nem vagy Guru nlkl, mert idtlenl
jelen van a szvedben. Nmelykor klsleg is
megnyilvntja magt, s eljn hozzd, leted
felemel s megjt tnyezjeknt, anyaknt,
felesgkn, tantknt; vagy megmarad az
igazsgossg s tkletessg fel mutat bels
sztnzknt. Mindssze annyi a teendd, hogy
engedelmeskedsz neki, s csinlod, amit mond
neked. Azt kvnj tled, az egyszer, tanulj
ntudatossgot, nuralmat, ntadst. A komolysg
szksges, egyszersmind elgsges. A
komolysgnak minden behdol.
K: Mi teszi az embert komolly?
M: A knyrlet a komolysg alapja. Az nmagad,
s msok irnti knyrlet a sajt, vagy msok
szenvedsbl szletnek.
K: Szenvednem kell, hogy komoly legyek?
M: Nem kell, ha rzkeny vagy, s hat rd msok
szenvedse, ahogy Buddhra is. De ha rzketlen
vagy, s nincs benned sznalom, a sajt
szenvedsed fogja elrni, hogy feltedd az
elkerlhetetlen krdseket.
K: gy ltom, hogy szenvedek, de nem elgg. Az
let nem kellemes, de elviselhet. Apr rmeim
krptolnak a kis fjdalmaimrt, s mindent
egybevetve jobban vagyok, mint a legtbb ember,
akit ismerek. Tudom, hogy helyzetem bizonytalan,
hogy brmely pillanatban rhet szerencstlensg.
Muszj egy krzisre vrnom, amely elindt az igazsg
fel vezet ton?
M: A pillanatban, hogy meglttad, milyen trkeny
az llapotod, mr felkszltl. Na mr most, maradj
kszenltben, figyeld, kutasd, tanulmnyozd, fedezd
fel elmd s tested hibit, s hagyd figyelmen kvl
ket.
K: Honnan jn az energia? Olyan vagyok, mint bna
ember egy g hzban.
M: Mg a bna ember is megtallja nha a lbait, a
veszly pillanatban. De te nem vagy bna, csupn
kpzeled azt. Tedd meg az els lpst, s utadon
leszel.
K: Olyan ersnek rzem a testhez val
ragaszkodsomat, hogy alig tudok lemondani arrl
az iderl, hogy n a test vagyok. Ez hozzm fog
tapadni, amg a test fennmarad. Vannak, akik szerint
nem lehetsges megvalsulni amg lsz, s n
hajlamos vagyok egyetrteni velk.
M: Az egyetrts vagy egyet nem rts eltt mirt
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
investigate the very idea of a body? Does the mind
appear in the body or the body in the mind? Surely
there must be a mind to conceive the I-am-the-body
idea. A body without a mind cannot be my body.
My body is invariably absent when the mind is in
abeyance. It is also absent when the mind is deeply
engaged in thoughts and feelings. Once you realise
that the body depends on the mind, and the mind on
consciousness, and consciousness on awareness
and not the other way round, your question about
waiting for self-realisation till you die is answered. It
is not that you must be free from I-am-the-body
idea first, and then realise the self. It is definitely the
other way round -- you cling to the false, because
you do not know the true. Earnestness, not
perfection, is a precondition to self-realisation.
Virtues and powers come with realisation, not
before.
85. I am: The Foundation of all
Experience
Questioner: I hear you making statements about
yourself like: I am timeless, immutable beyond
attributes, etc. How do you know these things? And
what makes you say them?
Maharaj: I am only trying to describe the state
before the I am arose, but the state itself, being
beyond the mind and language, is indescribable.
Q: The I am is the foundation of all experience.
What you are trying to describe must also be an
experience, limited and transitory. You speak of
yourself as immutable. I hear the sound of the word,
I remember its dictionary meaning, but the
experience of being immutable I do not have. How
can I break through the barrier and know personally,
intimately, what it means to be immutable?
M: The word itself is the bridge. Remember it, think
of it, explore it, go round it, look at it from all
directions, dive into it with earnest perseverance:
endure all delays and disappointments till suddenly
the mind turns round, away from the word, towards
the reality beyond the word. It is like trying to find a
person knowing his name only. A day comes when
your enquiries bring you to him and the name
becomes reality. Words are valuable, for between
the word and its meaning there is a link and if one
investigates the word assiduously, one crosses
beyond the concept into the experience at the root of
it. As a matter of fact, such repeated attempts to go
beyond the words is called meditation. Sadhana is
but a persistent attempt to cross over from the
402
nem tanulmnyozod a test valsgos idejt? Az
elme jelenik meg a testben, vagy a test az elmben?
Ktsgtelen, hogy lennie kell elmnek, amely
elgondolja az n-vagyok-a-test idet. Egy elme
nlkli test nem lehet az n testem. Az n testem
akkor is ugyangy hinyzik, amikor az elme hatlyon
kvl van. Amint felismered, hogy a test fgg az
elmtl, s az elme a tudatossgtl, s a tudatossg
a tudattl, s nem valami msrl van sz, akkor a
krdsed, hogy a hallodig kell-e vrnod az
nmegvalstsra, megvlaszolsra kerlt. Nem
arrl van sz, hogy elbb meg kell szabadulnod az
n-vagyok-a-test idetl, s aztn realizlni az nt.
Egszen msrl van sz a hamisba kapaszkodsz,
mert nem ismered az igazat. A komolysg, nem
pedig a tkletessg az nmegvalstsnak az
elfelttele. Az ernyek s erk a megvalsulssal
jnnek, nem eltte.
85. n vagyok: minden tapasztalat
alapja
Krdez: Hallom, olyanokat lltasz magadrl, mint
hogy: idtlen vagyok, tulajdonsgok feletti
vltozhatatlan, s gy tovbb. Honnan tudsz e
dolgokrl? s mi mondatja veled?
Maharaj: Csupn azt az llapotot prblom lerni,
amely az n vagyok eltt felmerl, de az llapot
maga elme s nyelv fltt ll, elmondhatatlan.
K: Az n vagyok az alapja minden tapasztalatnak.
Amit lerni prblsz, szintn tapasztalatnak kell,
hogy legyen, amely korltok kz szortott,
mlkony. Te nmagadrl mint megvltozhatatlanrl
beszlsz. Hallom a sz hangzst, ismerem sztri
jelentst, de a vltozhatatlan lt tapasztalatval
nem rendelkezem. Hogyan trhetem t a korltot, s
ismerhetem meg szemlyesen, kzvetlenl, hogy
mit jelent megvltozhatatlannak lenni?
M: A sz maga a hd. Tartsd szben, gondolj r,
fedezd fel, jrd krl, nzd meg minden irnybl,
merlj bele komoly llhatatossggal: viselj el minden
kslekedst s csaldst, mg az elme hirtelen el
nem fordul a vilgtl, a szavakon tli valsg fel.
Ez egy csak nvrl ismert szemly megkeresshez
hasonl. Eljn a nap, amikor kutatsaid elvezetnek
hozz, s a nv valsgg vlik. A szavak
rtkesek, mert a szavak s azok jelentse kztt
kapcsolat van, s ha valaki kitartan tanulmnyozza
a szavakat, a fogalmon keresztl a valsgba lp,
annak gykerhez. A szavak mg tekintsnek az
ilyen ismtld ksrleteit nevezik tulajdonkppen
meditcinak. A sadhana csak a verblisbl a
nonverblisba val tlpsnek egy llhatatos
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
verbal to the non-verbal. The task seems hopeless
until suddenly all becomes clear and simple and so
wonderfully easy. But, as long as you are interested
in your present way of living, you will shirk from the
final leap into the unknown.
Q: Why should the unknown interest me? Of what
use is the unknown?
M: Of no use whatsoever. But it is worthwhile to
know what keeps you within the narrow confines of
the known. It is the full and correct knowledge of the
known that takes you to the unknown. You cannot
think of it in terms of uses and advantages; to be
quite detached, beyond the reach of all self-concern,
all selfish consideration, is an inescapable condition
of liberation. You may call it death; to me it is living
at its most meaningful and intense, for I am one with
life in its totality and fullness -- intensity,
meaningfulness, harmony; what more do you want?
Q: Nothing more is needed, of course. But you are
talking of the knowable.
M: Of the unknowable only silence talks. The mind
can talk only of what it knows. If you diligently
investigate the knowable, it dissolves and only the
unknowable remains. But with the first flicker of
imagination and interest the unknowable is obscured
and the known comes to the fore-front. The known,
the changeable, is what you live with -- the
unchangeable is of no use to you. It is only when
you are satiated with the changeable and long for
the unchangeable, that you are ready for the turning
round and stepping into what can be described,
when seen from the level of the mind, as emptiness
and darkness. For the mind craves for content and
variety, while reality is, to the mind, contentless and
invariable.
Q: It looks like death to me.
M: It is. It is also all-pervading, all-conquering,
intense beyond words. No ordinary brain can stand it
without being shattered; hence the absolute need for
sadhana. Purity of body and clarity of mind, non-
violence and selflessness in life are essential for
survival as an intelligent and spiritual entity.
Q: Are there entities in reality?
M: Identity is Reality, Reality is identity. Reality is not
shapeless mass, a wordless chaos. It is powerful,
aware, blissful; compared to it your life is like a
candle to the sun.
403
ksrlete. A feladat mindaddig remnytelennek
ltszik, amg minden hirtelen tisztv s egyszer,
s oly csodlatosan knnyv nem vlik. De amg
rdekldst tanstasz a jelenlegi letmdod irnt,
addig hzdozni fogsz attl, hogy vgleg belevesd
magad az ismeretlenbe.
K: Mirt kellene ismeretlennek rdekelnie? Mifle
haszna van az ismeretlennek?
M: Semmifle haszna nincs. De rdemes tudni, mi
tart az ismert szk korltai kztt. Az ismert teljes s
kifogstalan ismerete vezet el az ismeretlenhez.
Nem gondolkodhatsz rla a hasznossg s elny
kategriiban; a teljes elfogulatlansg, a minden
nvonatkozson, a minden nz megfontols
hatkrn val tllps elkerlhetetlen felttele a
megszabadulsnak. Lehet, hogy te hallnak
nevezed; szmomra let, annak legsokatmondbb
s legmlyebb rtelmben, mert egy vagyok az
lettel, annak teljessgben s gazdagsgban
intenzitsban, jelentsgteljessgben,
harmnijban; mi tbbet akarsz?
K: Semmi tbbre nincs szksg, termszetesen. De
te a megismerhetrl beszlsz.
M: A megismerhetetlenrl csak a csend beszl. Az
elme csak arrl tud beszlni, amit ismer. Ha
gondosan tanulmnyozod a megismerhett, az
szertefoszlik, s csak a megismerhetetlen marad.
De a kpzelet s rdeklds els felvillansval a
megismerhetetlen elhomlyosul, s az ismert kerl
az eltrbe. Az ismert, a vltozkony, amivel egytt
lsz a megvltozhatatlannak nincs haszna
szmodra. Csak, amikor elteltl a vltozkonnyal, s
vgydsz a megvltozhatatlanra, csak akkor llsz
kszen, hogy megfordulj, s belpj abba, ami az
elme szintjrl nzve gy rhat le, mint ressg s
sttsg. Ugyanis az elme tartalmat s
vltozatossgot kvetel, mg a valsg az elme
szmra tartalom nlkli, s vltozatlan.
K: Ez hallnak ltszik szmomra.
M: Az. Ugyanakkor mindent betlt, mindenen
gyzedelmesked, mrhetetlen szavakon tli.
Kznsges agy nem tudja elviselni anlkl, hogy
ssze ne trne; innen ered a sadhana igazi
szksgessge. A test tisztasga, s az elme
vilgossga, az erszakmentessg s nzetlensg
az letben, lnyeges dolgok az intelligens s
spiritulis entitsknt val letben maradshoz.
K: Vannak entitsok a valsgban?
M: Az nazonossg Valsg, a Valsg
nazonossg. A Valsg nem formtlan massza,
sztlan kosz. Ers, tudatos, dvzlt; hozz kpest
az leted olyan, mint gyertya a naphoz kpest.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: By the grace of God and your teachers you lost
all desire and fear and reached the immovable state.
My question is simple -- how do you know that your
state is immovable?
M: Only the changeable can be thought of and
talked about. The unchangeable can only be
realised in silence. Once realised, it will deeply affect
the changeable, itself remaining unaffected.
Q: How do you know that you are the witness?
M: I do not know, I am. I am, because to be
everything must be witnessed.
Q: Existence can also be accepted on hearsay.
M: Still, finally you come to the need of a direct
witness. Witnessing, if not personal and actual, must
at least be possible and feasible. Direct experience
is the final proof.
Q: Experience may be faulty and misleading.
M: Quite, but not the fact of an experience.
Whatever may be the experience, true or false, the
fact of an experience taking place cannot be denied.
It is its own proof. Watch yourself closely and you
will see that whatever be the content of
consciousness, the witnessing of it does not depend
on the content. Awareness is itself and does not
change with the event. The event may be pleasant
or unpleasant, minor or important, awareness is the
same. Take note of the peculiar nature of pure
awareness, its natural self-identity, without the least
trace of self-consciousness, and go to the root of it
and you will soon realise that awareness is your true
nature and nothing you may be aware of, you can
call your own.
Q: Is not consciousness and its content one and the
same?
M: Consciousness is like a cloud in the sky and the
water drops are the content. The cloud needs the
sun to become visible, and consciousness needs
being focussed in awareness.
Q: Is not awareness a form of consciousness?
M: When the content is viewed without likes and
dislikes, the consciousness of it is awareness. But
still there is a difference between awareness as
reflected in consciousness and pure awareness
beyond consciousness. Reflected awareness, the
404
K: Isten s tantd kegyelmbl elvesztetted
minden vgyadat s flelmedet, s elrted a
megvltozhatatlan llapotot. Krdsem egyszer
honnan tudod, hogy llapotod megvltozhatatlan?
M: Csak a vltoztathatnak lehetnek gondolatai, s
csak az tud beszlni rla. A megvltozhatatlan csak
csendben tud megvalsult lenni. Amint megvalsult,
mly hatssal van a vltoztatatra, mg nmaga
rintetlen marad.
K: Honnan tudod, hogy te a tan vagy?
M: Nem tudom, vagyok. Vagyok, mert ahhoz, hogy
legyek, mindennek a tanjnak kell lenni.
K: A ltezs halloms alapjn is elfogadhat.
M: Mgis a vgn te jssz a kzvetlen tansg
ignyvel. A tansg, ha nem szemlyes s
valsgos, legyen legalbb lehetsges, s
megvalsthat. A kzvetlen tapasztalat a vgs
bizonytk.
K: A tapasztalat lehet hibs, s flrevezet is.
M: Igaz, de ez nem vonatkozik a tapasztalat
tnyre. Akrmi is a tapasztalat, igaz, vagy hamis, a
tapasztalat megtrtntnek a tnye nem tagadhat.
nmaga bizonytka. Figyeld meg gondosan
nmagadat, s ltni fogod, hogy brmi lett lgyen a
tudatossg tartalma, annak tansga nem fgg a
tartalomtl. A tudat nmaga, s nem vltozik az
esemnnyel. Az esemny lehet kellemes, vagy
kellemetlen, jelentktelen, vagy fontos, a tudat
ugyanaz. Vedd tudomsul a tiszta tudat klnleges
termszett, az ntudatossg legkisebb nyoma
nlkli termszetes nazonossgt, s ss le a
gykerig, s hamarosan fel fogod ismerni, hogy a
tudat a te igaz termszeted, s semmi olyannak
nem lehetsz tudatban, amit a te sajtodnak
nevezhetsz.
K: A tudatossg, s annak tartalma nem egy s
ugyanazok?
M: A tudatossg olyan, mint felh az gen, s a
vzcseppek a tartalom. A felhnek szksge van a
napra, hogy lthatv vljon, s a tudatossgnak
ltre van szksge, lvn, hogy a tudatban
sszpontosul.
K: A tudat a tudatossg egy formja?
M: Amikor a tartalom szemllse rokon- s
ellenszenv nlkli, akkor annak tudatossga a tudat.
Mindazonltal klnbsg van a tudatossgban
tkrztt tudat s a tudatossgon tli tiszta tudat
kztt. A tkrztt tudat, az n tudatos vagyok
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
sense I am aware is the witness, while pure
awareness is the essence of reality. Reflection of the
sun in a drop of water is the reflection of the sun, no
doubt, but not the sun itself. Between awareness
reflected in consciousness as the witness and pure
awareness there is a gap, which the mind cannot
cross.
Q: Does it not depend on the way you look at it? The K: Ez nem a megfigyelsnek mdjtl fgg? Az
mind says there is a difference. The heart says there elme azt mondja, van klnbsg. A szv azt mondja,
is none. nincs.
M: Of course there is no difference. The real sees
the real in the unreal. It is the mind that creates the
unreal and it is the mind that sees the false as false.
Q: I understood that the experience of the real
follows seeing the false as false.
M: There is no such thing as the experience of the
real. The real is beyond experience. All experience
is in the mind. You know the real by being real.
Q: If the real is beyond words and mind, why do we
talk so much about it?
M: For the joy of it, of course. The real is bliss
supreme. Even to talk of it is happiness.
Q: I hear you talking of the unshakable and blissful.
What is in your mind when you use these words?
M: There is nothing in my mind. As you hear the
words, so do I hear them. The power that makes
everything happen makes them also happen.
Q: But you are speaking, not me.
M: That is how it appears to you. As I see it, two
body-minds exchange symbolic noises. In reality
nothing happens.
Q: Listen Sir. I am coming to you because I am in
trouble. I am a poor soul lost in a world I do not
understand. I am afraid of Mother Nature who wants
me to grow, procreate and die. When I ask for the
meaning and purpose of all this, she does not
answer. I have come to you because I was told that
you are kind and wise. You talk about the
changeable as false and transient and this I can
understand. But when you talk of the immutable, I
feel lost. Not this, not that, beyond knowledge, of no
use -- why talk of it all? Does it exist, or is it a
concept only, a verbal opposite to the changeable?
405
rzse a tansg, mg a tiszta tudat a valsg
eszencija. A napnak a vzcseppen val
tkrzdse ktsgtelenl a nap tkrkpe, de nem
a nap maga. A tudatossgban tanknt tkrzd
tudat s a tiszta tudat kztt szakadk van, amelyet
az elme kptelen thidalni.
M: Termszetesen, nincs klnbsg. A valdi az ,
ami ltja a valdit a nem valdiban. Az elme az,
amely ltrehozza a nem valdit, s az elme az,
amely a hamisat hamisnak ltja.
K: gy tudom, hogy a valdi tapasztalata a hamis
hamisnak ltsa utn kvetkezik.
M: Nem ltezik ilyesmi, hogy a valdi tapasztalata. A
valdi tapasztalaton tli. Minden tapasztals az
elmben zajlik. A valdi csak gy ismerhet, hogy
valdiknt ltezel.
K: Ha a valdi tl van a szavakon s az elmn,
akkor mirt beszlsz rla olyan sokat?
M: Annak lvezete miatt, termszetesen. A valdi a
legfbb dvssg. Mg beszlni rla is boldogsg.
K: Hallgatom, amint a rendthetetlenrl s az
dvzltrl beszlsz. Mi van az elmdben, mikor
ezeket a szavakat hasznlod?
M: Semmi nincs az elmmben. Ahogy te hallod a
szavakat, gy hallom n is. Az er, amely mindent
megtrtntt tesz, teszi ezeket is megtrtntt.
K: De te vagy, aki beszlsz, nem n.
M: Ez szmodra jelenik meg gy. Ahogy n ltom,
kt test-elme szimbolikus zajokat cserl. A
valsgban semmi nem trtnik.
K: Hallgass meg, Uram. Azrt fordulok hozzd, mert
bajban vagyok. n egy szegny llek vagyok, aki
elveszett egy vilgban, amit nem rt. Tartok az
Anyatermszettl, aki azt kvnja tlem, hogy
nvekedjek, nemzzek, s meghaljak. Amikor krdre
vonom, hogy mi rtelme s clja mindennek, nem
vlaszol. Eljttem hozzd, mert gy hallottam,
jsgos, s blcs vagy. A vltoztathatrl, mint
hamisrl, s mlandrl beszlsz, s ezt rtem. De
amikor a vltozhatatlanrl beszlsz, elveszettnek
rzem magam. Nem ez, nem az, tudatossgon tli,
haszontalan mirt mondod mindezeket? Ltez
dolog ez, vagy fogalom csupn, a vltoztathatnak a
verblis ellentte?
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
M: It is, it alone is. But in your present state it is of
no use to you. Just like the glass of water near your
bed if of no use to you, when you dream that you are
dying of thirst in a desert. I am trying to wake you
up, whatever your dream.
Q: Please dont tell me that I am dreaming and that I
will soon wake up. I wish it were so. But I am awake
and in pain. You talk of a painless state, but you add
that I cannot have it in my present condition. I feel
lost.
M: Dont feel lost. I only say that to find the
immutable and blissful you must give up your hold
on the mutable and painful. You are concerned with
your own happiness and I am telling you that there is
no such thing. Happiness is never your own, it is
where the I is not. I do not say it is beyond your
reach; you have only to reach out beyond yourself,
and you will find it.
Q: If I have to go beyond myself, why did I get the I
am idea in the first instance?
M: The mind needs a centre to draw a circle. The
circle may grow bigger and with every increase there
will be a change in the sense I am. A man who took
himself in hand, a Yogi, will draw a spiral, yet the
centre will remain, however vast the spiral. A day
comes when the entire enterprise is seen as false
and given up. The central point is no more and the
universe becomes the centre.
Q: Yes, maybe. But what am I to do now?
M: Assiduously watch your ever-changing life, probe
deeply into the motives beyond your actions and you
will soon prick the bubble in which you are enclosed.
A chic needs the shell to grow, but a day comes
when the shell must be broken. If it is not, there will
be suffering and death.
Q: Do you mean to say that if I do not take to Yoga, I K: Azt akarod mondani, hogy ha nem kezdek
am doomed to extinction? Yogzni, pusztulsra vagyok tlve?
M: There is the Guru who will come to your rescue.
In the meantime be satisfied with watching the flow
of your life; if your watchfulness is deep and steady,
ever turned towards the source, it will gradually
move upstream till suddenly it becomes the source.
Put your awareness to work, not your mind. The
mind is not the right instrument for this task. The
timeless can be reached only by the timeless. Your
body and your mind are both subject to time; only
406
M: Van, egyedl az van. De jelenlegi llapotodban
nincs haszna szmodra. Mint ahogy az gyad
melletti veg vznek nincs haszna szmodra, amikor
azt lmodod, hogy szomjsgtl haldokolsz a
sivatagban. n megprbllak felbreszteni, akrmit
lmodsz.
K: Ne mondd, krlek, hogy lmodom, s hogy
hamarosan felbredek. Azt kvnom, brcsak gy
lenne. De bren vagyok, s szenvedek.
Fjdalommentes llapotrl beszlsz, de
hozzteszed, hogy a jelenlegi llapotomban nem
birtokolhatom. Elveszettnek rzem magam.
M: Ne rezd magad elveszettnek. n csak azt
mondom, hogy a vltozhatatlan s dvteljes
megtallshoz fel kell adnod a vltozhoz s
fjdalmashoz val ragaszkodsodat. Te sajt
boldogsgod miatt nyugtalankodsz, s n azt
mondom neked, hogy nincs ilyen dolog. A
boldogsg soha nem a te sajtod, ez olyan, amiben
nincs benne az n. Nem mondom, hogy tl van az
elrhetsgeden; csak ki kell nylnod nmagadon
tlra, s meg fogod tallni.
K: Ha nmagamon tlra kell mennem, akkor
mindenekeltt, mirt kaptam az n vagyok idet?
M: Az elmnek kzppontra van szksge, hogy
krt rajzoljon. A kr nvekedhet, s minden
nvekedssel vltozs kvetkezik be az n vagyok
rzsben. Az nmagt kzben tart ember, a Yogi,
egy spirlt fog rajzolni, a kzppont mgis meg fog
maradni, akrmilyen hatalmas a spirl. Eljn a nap,
amikor az egsz vllalkozsrl kiderl, hogy hamis,
s feladsra kerl. A kzppont megsznik, s az
univerzum vlik a kzppontt.
K: Igen, lehetsges. De mit kell tennem most?
M: Kitartan figyeld llandan vltoz letedet,
hatolj a cselekedeteid mgtti motvumok mlyre,
s hamarosan ki fogod szrni a buborkot, amelybe
be vagy zrva. A csirknek szksge van a
tojshjra, hogy nvekedjen, de eljn a nap, amikor
a hjat fel kell trni. Ha ez nem kvetkezik be,
szenveds lesz, s hall.
M: Jnni fog a Guru, hogy megmentsen. Addig
elgedj meg leted folyamnak a figyelsvel; ha
bersged mly s lland, folyvst a forrs fel
fordul, akkor fokonknt halad r ellen, mg egyszer
csak a forrss nem vlik. Igyekezz a tudatoddal
dolgozni, ne az elmddel. Az elme nem a megfelel
eszkz ehhez a feladathoz. Az idtlen csak az
idtlennel rhet el. Tested s elmd egyarnt
alvetettek az idnek; csak a tudat idtlen, st, a
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
awareness is timeless, even in the now. In
awareness you are facing facts and reality is fond of
facts.
Q: You rely entirely on my awareness to take me
over and not on the Guru and God.
M: God gives the body and the mind and the Guru
shows the way to use them. But returning to the
source is your own task.
Q: God has created me, he will look after me.
M: There are innumerable gods, each in his own
universe. They create and re-create eternally. Are
you going to wait for them to save you? What you
need for salvation is already within your reach. Use
it. Investigate what you know to its very end and you
will reach the unknown layers of your being. Go
further and the unexpected will explode in you and
shatter all.
Q: Does it mean death?
M: It means life -- at last.
86. The Unknown is the Home of the
Real
Questioner: Who is the Guru and who is the
supreme Guru?
Maharaj: All that happens in your consciousness is
your Guru. And pure awareness beyond
consciousness is the supreme Guru.
Q: My Guru is Sri Babaji. What is your opinion of
him?
M: What a question to ask. The space in Bombay is
asked what is its opinion of the space in Poona. The
names differ, but not the space. The word Babaji is
merely as address. Who lives under the address?
You ask questions when you are in trouble. Enquire
who is giving trouble and to whom.
Q: I understand everybody is under the obligation to
realise. Is it his duty, or his destiny?
M: Realisation is of the fact that you are not a
person. Therefore, it cannot be the duty of the
person whose destiny is to disappear. Its destiny is
the duty of him who imagines himself to be the
person. Find out who he is and the imagined person
will dissolve. Freedom is from something. What are
you to be free from? Obviously, you must be free
from the person, you take yourself to be, for it is the
407
mostban lv. A tudatban szembenzel a tnyekkel,
s a tnyek forrsa a valsg.
K: Egszen a tudatomra bzod, hogy hatalmba
kertsen, s nem a Gurura, vagy Istenre.
M: Isten a testet, s az elmt adja, s a Guru a
mdot mutatja, ahogyan hasznld azokat. De a
forrshoz val visszatrs a te sajt feladatod.
K: Isten teremtett, fog rlam gondoskodni.
M: Szmtalan isten van, mindegyik a sajt
univerzumban. Teremtenek s jrateremtenek,
szntelen. rjuk vrsz, hogy megmentsenek? Ami
dvzlsedhez szksges, az mr kezed gyben
van. Hasznld. Tanulmnyozd a vgskig, amit
ismersz, s el fogod rni az ismeretlen rtegeit a
ltednek. Menj tovbb, s fel fog robbanni benned a
vratlan, s mindent sszetr.
K: Ez hallt jelent?
M: letet jelent vgre valahra.
86. Az ismeretlen a valdi otthona
Krdez: Ki a Guru, s ki a legfelsbb Guru?
Maharaj: Minden, ami a tudatossgodban trtnik a
te Gurud. s a tudatossgon tli tiszta tudat a
legfelsbb Guru.
K: Nekem Sri Babaji a Gurum. Mi a vlemnyed
rla?
M: Micsoda krdseket teszel fel. Megkrdezik a
Bombayban lv teret, hogy mi a vlemnye a
Poonban lv trrl. A nevek klnbznek, de a tr
nem. A Babaji sz egy cm csupn. Ki lakik ezen a
cmen? Akkor teszel fel krdseket, mikor gondban
vagy. Kutasd fel, ki okozta a gondot, s kinek.
K: Megrtem, hogy mindenki a megvalsuls
elktelezettje. Ktelessg ez, vagy sors?
M: A megvalsuls annak a tnye, hogy te nem
szemly vagy. Kvetkezskppen nem lehet a
szemly ktelessge, akinek az eltns a sorsa. Ez
a sors annak a ktelessge, aki kpzeli magt a
szemlynek. Fedezd fel, ki , s a kpzelt szemly
szertefoszlik. Szabadsg csak valamitl lehetsges.
Mitl kell megszabadulnod? Nyilvnval, hogy a
szemlytl kell szabadd vlnod, nmagadd kell
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
idea you have of yourself that keeps you in
bondage.
Q: How is the person removed?
M: By determination. Understand that it must go and
wish it to go -- it shall go if you are earnest about it.
Somebody, anybody, will tell you that you are pure
consciousness, not a body-mind. Accept it as a
possibility and investigate earnestly. You may
discover that it is not so, that you are not a person
bound in space and time. Think of the difference it
would make.
Q: If I am not a person, then what am I?
M: Wet cloth looks, feels, smells differently as long
as it is wet. When dry it is again the normal cloth.
Water has left it and who can make out that it was
wet? Your real nature is not like what you appear to
be. Give up the idea of being a person, that is all.
You need not become what you are anyhow. There
is the identity of what you are and there is the
person superimposed on it. All you know is the
person, the identity -- which is not a person -- you do
not know, for you never doubted, never asked
yourself the crucial question -- Who am I. The
identity is the witness of the person and sadhana
consists in shifting the emphasis from the superficial
and changeful person to the immutable and ever-
present witness.
Q: How is it that the question Who am I attracts me K: Hogy van az, hogy a ki vagyok n krds rm
little? I prefer to spend my time in the sweet csekly vonzst gyakorol? Jobb szeretem az idmet
company of saints. a szentek kellemes trsasgban tlteni.
M: Abiding in your own being is also holy company.
If you have no problem of suffering and release from
suffering, you will not find the energy and
persistence needed for self-enquiry. You cannot
manufacture a crisis. It must be genuine.
Q: How does a genuine crisis happen?
M: It happens every moment, but you are not alert
enough. A shadow on your neighbours face, the
immense and all-pervading sorrow of existence is a
constant factor in your life, but you refuse to take
notice. You suffer and see others suffer, but you
dont respond.
Q: What you say is true, but what can I do about it?
Such indeed is the situation. My helplessness and
dullness are a part of it.
M: Good enough. Look at yourself steadily -- it is
enough. The door that locks you in, is also the door
408
vlnod, mert ez az ided tart tged megktzve.
K: Hogyan tvoltjk el a szemly?
M: Eltkltsg rvn. rtsd meg, hogy tvoznia kell,
s kvnd, hogy eltvozzon el fog tvozni, ha
komolyan veszed. Valaki, akrki, azt fogja neked
mondani, hogy te a tiszta tudatossg vagy, nem
test-elme. Fogadd el lehetsgknt, s vedd
komolyan fontolra. Lehet, hogy felfedezed, hogy
mskpp van, hogy te nem egy tr s id ltal
meghatrozott szemly vagy. Gondolkodj a
klnbsgen, amit ez teremtene.
K: Ha nem szemly vagyok, akkor mi vagyok?
M: A nedves ruhnak ms a megjelense, rintse,
szaga, amg nedves. Amikor megszrad, ismt a
normlis ruha. A vz eltvozott belle, s ki
mondan meg, hogy nedves volt? Valdi
termszeted nem az, aminek lenni ltszol. Add fel a
szemlyknt val ltezs idejt, ez minden. Nem
kell azz vlnod, ami mindenkppen te vagy. Van
annak az identitsa, ami vagy, s van a szemly,
ami r van helyezve. Te csak a szemlyt ismered,
az identitst amely nem szemly nem ismered,
mert soha nem ktelkedtl, soha nem tetted fel
magadnak a dnt krdst ki vagyok n. Az
identits a szemly tanja, s a sadhana a felletes
s szeszlyes szemly fell a vltozhatatlan s
mindig jelenlv tan fel val hangsly eltoldst
jelenti.
M: A sajt ltedben val tartzkods szintn szent
trsasg. Ha nem problma szmodra a szenveds,
s lemondasz a szenvedsrl, nem fogod megtallni
az nkutatshoz szksges energit, s kitartst.
Krzist nem lehet kiagyalni. Annak valdinak kell
lennie.
K: Hogyan fordul el valdi krzis?
M: Minden pillanatban elfordul, de nem vagy elg
ber. A szomszdod arcn tsuhan rnyk, a
ltezs mrhetetlen s mindenre kiterjed
szomorsga lland tnyezje letednek, de te
megtagadod tle a figyelmet. Szenvedsz, s ltod
msok szenvedst, de te nem vagy r rzkeny.
K: Amit mondasz igaz, de mit tudok vele kezdeni?
Valban ez a helyzet. Ktsgbeesettsgem s
tompasgom is rsze mindennek.
M: Ez elegend. Szemlld magad folyamatosan
ez elegend. Az ajt, ami bezr tged, ugyanaz az
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
that lets you out. The I am is the door. Stay at it
until it opens. As a matter of fact, it is open, only you
are not at it. You are waiting at the non-existent
painted doors, which will never open.
Q: Many of us were taking drugs at some time, and
to some extent. People told us to take drugs in order
to break through into higher levels of consciousness.
Others advised us to have abundant sex for the
same purpose. What is your opinion in the matter?
M: No doubt, a drug that can affect your brain can
also affect your mind, and give you all the strange
experiences promised. But what are all the drugs
compared to the drug that gave you this most
unusual experience of being born and living in
sorrow and fear, in search of happiness, which does
not come, or does not last. You should enquire into
the nature of this drug and find an antidote.
Birth, life, death -- they are one. Find out what had
caused them. Before you were born, you were
already drugged. What kind of drug was it? You may
cure yourself of all diseases, but if you are still under
the influence of the primordial drug, of what use are
the superficial cures?
Q: Is it not karma that causes rebirth?
M: You may change the name, but the fact remains.
What is the drug which you call karma or destiny? It
made you believe yourself to be what you are not.
What is it, and can you be free of it? Before you go
further you must accept, at least as a working
theory, that you are not what you appear to be, that
you are under the influence of a drug. Then only will
you have the urge and the patience to examine the
symptoms and search for their common cause. All
that a Guru can tell you is: My dear Sir, you are
quite mistaken about yourself. You are not the
person you think yourself to be. Trust nobody, not
even yourself. Search, find out, remove and reject
every assumption till you reach the living waters and
the rock of truth. Until you are free of the drug, all
your religions and sciences, prayers and Yogas are
of no use to you, for based on a mistake, they
strengthen it. But if you stay with the idea that you
are not the body nor the mind, not even their
witness, but altogether beyond, your mind will grow
in clarity, your desires -- in purity, your actions -- in
charity and that inner distillation will take you to
another world, a world of truth and fearless love.
Resist your old habits of feeling and thinking; keep
on telling yourself: No, not so, it cannot be so; I am
not like this, I do not need it, I do not want it, and a
day will surely come when the entire structure of
error and despair will collapse and the ground will be
409
ajt, ami kienged. Az n vagyok az ajt. Tartzkodj
benne, amg ki nem nylik. Ami azt illeti, nyitva is
van, csak te nem benne tartzkodsz. Egy nem
ltez, hamis ajtnl vrakozol, amely soha nem fog
kinylni.
K: Egy idben sokan szedtnk drogokat, valamilyen
mrtkben. Azt mondtk egyesek, drogokat kell
szednnk annak rdekben, hogy a tudatossg
magasabb szintjre kerljnk. Msok azt
tancsoltk, szexeljnk gyakran, ugyanezen cl
rdekben. Mi a vlemnyed ezzel kapcsolatban?
M: Az agyadra hat drog elmdre is ktsgtelenl
hatssal lehet, s megad szmodra mindenfle
klnleges lmnyt, amit gr. De mit szmt az
sszes drog ahhoz a droghoz kpest, amit a
megszlets, s a szomorsgban s flelemben
eltlttt let jelent, a boldogsg keresse kzepette,
ami nem jn, illetve nem tarts. Tanulmnyoznod
kell ennek a drognak a termszett, s meg kell
tallnod az ellenmrget.
Szlets, let, hall ezek egyek. Fedezd fel, mi
idzte el ket. Mieltt megszlettl volna, mr
drogoztl. Mifle drog volt az? Krlhatod magad
mindenfle betegsgek ellen, de ha mg mindig az
eredeti drog hatsa alatt vagy, mi haszna a felleti
kezelseknek?
K: Nem a karma okozza az jraszletst?
M: Megvltoztathatod a nevet, de tny megmarad.
Mifle drog az, amit karmnak, vagy sorsnak
nevezel? Rvett, hogy annak hidd magad, ami nem
vagy. Mi ez, s meg tudsz-e tle szabadulni? Mieltt
tovbblpnl, el kell fogadnod, legalbb munka
teriaknt, hogy nem az vagy, aminek ltszol, hogy
kbtszer hatsa alatt llsz. Csak akkor lesz meg a
ksztetsed s a trelmed, hogy megvizsgld a
tneteket, s keresd azok kzs okt. A Guru csak
ennyit tud neked mondani: Kedves Uram, teljes
tvedsben vagy nmagaddal kapcsolatban. Te
nem az a szemly vagy, akinek gondolod magad.
Ne higgy senkinek, mg nmagadnak sem. Keress,
tallj meg, tvolts el, s utasts el minden feltevst,
mg el nem red az l vizeket, s az igazsg kvt.
Amg meg nem szabadulsz a drogtl, addig az
sszes valls s tudomny, imdsg s Yoga
haszontalan szmodra, mert olyan hibn alapulnak,
amit tovbb erstenek. De ha elfogadod az idet,
hogy te sem a test, sem az elme, sem azok tanja
nem vagy, hanem mindezeken tli, akkor meg fog
nvekedni elmd vilgossga, vgyaid tisztasga,
cselekedeteid knyrletessge, s ez a bels
desztillci tvisz egy msik vilgba, az igazsgnak,
s a flelemmentes szeretetnek a vilgba. llj ellen
rzseid s gondolkodsod rgi szoksainak;
folytasd, hogy azt mondod magadnak: Nem, nem
gy van, nem lehet gy; nem vagyok olyan, mint ez,
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
free for a new life. After all, you must remember, that
all your preoccupations with yourself are only in your
waking hours and partly in your dreams; in sleep all
is put aside and forgotten. It shows how little
important is your waking life, even to yourself, that
merely lying down and closing the eyes can end it.
Each time you go to sleep you do so without the
least certainty of waking up and yet you accept the
risk.
Q: When you sleep, are you conscious or
unconscious?
M: I remain conscious, but not conscious of being a
particular person.
Q: Can you give us the taste of the experience of
self-realisation?
M: Take the whole of it. It is here for the asking. But
you do not ask. Even when you ask, you do not
take. Find out what prevents you from taking.
Q: I know what prevents -- my ego.
M: Then get busy with your ego -- leave me alone.
As long as you are locked up within your mind, my
state is beyond your grasp.
Q: I find I have no more questions to ask.
M: Were you really at war with your ego, you would
have put many more questions. You are short of
questions because you are not really interested. At
present you are moved by the pleasure-pain
principle which is the ego. You are going along with
the ego, you are not fighting it. You are not even
aware how totally you are swayed by personal
considerations. A man should always revolt against
himself, for the ego, like a crooked mirror, narrows
down and distorts. It is the worst of all the tyrants, it
dominates you absolutely.
Q: When there is no I who is free?
M: The world is free of a mighty nuisance. Good
enough.
Q: Good for whom?
M: Good for everybody. It is like a rope stretched
across the street, it snarls up the traffic. Roll up, it is
there, as mere identity, useful when needed.
Freedom from the ego-self is the fruit of self-enquiry.
410
nincs szksgem erre, nem akarom ezt, s egy nap
biztosan bekvetkezik a tveds s ktsgbeess
egsz struktrjnak sszeomlsa, s a terep
megtisztul, hogy j let keletkezzk. Mindent
egybevetve, emlkezned kell, hogy minden
nmagadba feledkezsed csak brenlti ridra, s
rszben lmaidra jellemz; alvskor mindez
mellzsre, s elfelejtsre kerl. Az mutatja, hogy
brenlti llapotod mily kevss fontos, mg
nmagad szmra is, hogy mr az is vget vethet
neki, hogy lefekszel, s becsukod a szemed.
Mindahnyszor aludni msz, azt a felbreds
legcseklyebb bizonyossga nlkl teszed, s te
mgis elfogadod ezt a kockzatot.
K: Alvs kzben tudatos, vagy tudattalan vagy?
M: Tudatos maradok, de konkrt szemlyknt val
ltezsnek nem vagyok tudatban.
K: Tudsz kstolt adni neknk az nmegvalsuls
tapasztalatbl?
M: Vedd az egszet. Arra van sznva, hogy krd.
De nem kred. De mikor kred, sem veszed el.
Fedezd fel, mi akadlyoz abban, hogy elvedd.
K: Tudom, mi akadlyoz az egm.
M: Akkor foglalkozz az egddal engem hagyj
magamra. Amg elmdbe vagy bezrva, addig az n
llapotom is meghaladja a megrtsedet.
K: gy tallom, elfogytak a krdseim.
M: Ha tnyleg hborban llnl az egddal, sokkal
tbb krdst tennl fel. Azrt nincsenek krdseid,
mert nem vagy igazn rdekelt. Tged jelenleg az
rm-fjdalom elv mozgat, ami az eg. Az egddal
egytt fogsz elmenni, mert nem harcolsz vele. Mg
annak sem vagy tudatban, hogy milyen totlisan
uralkodnak feletted a szemlyes megfontolsok. Az
embernek mindig lzadnia kell nmaga ellen, mert
az eg grbe tkrknt korltoz s torzt. Minden
zsarnokok legrosszabbika, aki abszolt uralmat
gyakorol feletted.
K: Amikor nincs n, ki az, aki szabad?
M: A vilg a szabad egy hatalmas nygtl. Mr j.
K: Kinek j?
M: Mindenkinek j. Olyan ez, mint az ton
keresztben kifesztett ktl, zavarja a kzlekedst.
Gombolytsd fel, legyen ott, szemlyazonossgknt
pusztn, amely szksg esetn hasznavehet. Az
egs ntl val szabadsg az nkutats gymlcse.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: There was a time when I was most displeased
with myself. Now I have met my Guru and I am at
peace, after having surrendered myself to him
completely.
M: If you watch your daily life you will see that you
have surrendered nothing. You have merely added
the word surrender to your vocabulary and made
your Guru into a peg to hang your problems on. Real
surrender means doing nothing, unless prompted by
your Guru. You step, so to say, aside and let your
Guru live your life. You merely watch and wonder
how easily he solves the problems which to you
seemed insoluble.
Q: As I sit here, I see the room, the people. I see
you too. How does it look at your end? What do you
see?
M: Nothing. I look, but I do not see in the sense of
creating images clothed with judgements. I do not
describe nor evaluate. I look, I see you, but neither
attitude nor opinion cloud my vision. And when I turn
my eyes away, my mind does not allow memory to
linger; it is at once free and fresh for the next
impression.
Q: As I am here, looking at you, I cannot locate the
event in space and time. There is something eternal
and universal about the transmission of wisdom that
is taking place. Ten thousand years earlier, or later,
make no difference -- the event itself is timeless.
M: Man does not change much over the ages.
Human problems remain the same and call for the
same answers. Your being conscious of what you
call transmission of wisdom shows that wisdom has
not yet been transmitted. When you have it, you are
no longer conscious of it. What is really your own,
you are not conscious of. What you are conscious of
is neither you nor yours. Yours is the power of
perception, not what you perceive. It is a mistake to
take the conscious to be the whole of man. Man is
the unconscious, conscious and the super-
conscious, but you are not the man. Yours is the
cinema screen, the light as well as the seeing
power, but the picture is not you.
Q: Must I search for the Guru, or shall I stay with
whomever I have found?
M: The very question shows that you have not yet
found one. As long as you have not realised, you will
move from Guru to Guru, but when you have found
yourself, the search will end. A Guru is a milestone.
411
K: Volt id, mikor sokkal elgedetlenebb voltam
nmagammal. Tallkoztam Gurummal, s bkben
lek, miutn teljesen tadtam magamat neki.
M: Ha megfigyeled mindennapi letedet, ltni fogod,
hogy nem adtad t magad semminek. Pusztn az
tads szval bvtetted a sztradat, s a
Gurudbl fogast csinltl, hogy felaggasd r a
problmidat. A valdi ntads azt jelenti, hogy
nem csinlsz semmit, hacsak a Gurud meg nem kr
r. Te gyszlvn flrellsz, s hagyod, hogy a Guru
lje az leted. Te pusztn figyeled, s csodlod,
hogy milyen knnyen oldja meg a problmkat,
amelyek szmodra megoldhatatlannak ltszanak.
K: Ahogy itt lk, ltom a szobt, az embereket.
Hogyan ltszik ez a te oldaladrl? Mit ltsz?
M: Semmit. Nzek, de nem ltok abban az
rtelemben, hogy tletekbe ltztetett kpeket
hoznk ltre. Nem rok le, s nem rtkelek semmit.
Nzek, ltlak tged, de sem attitd, sem vlemny
nem homlyostja ltsomat. s amikor tekintetemet
elfordtom, elmm nem engedi, hogy emlkezetem a
ltottakon idzzn; azonnal szabadd s friss vlik
a kvetkez benyomsra.
K: Ahogy itt lk, s tged nzlek, nem tudom az
esemnyt trbe s idbe helyezni. Valami
rkkval s egyetemes van a blcsessg
tadsban, ami vgbemegy. Tzezer vvel
korbban, vagy ksbb, nem vltoztat a lnyegen
az esemny maga idtlen.
M: Az ember nem sokat vltozik a genercik sorn.
Az emberi problmk ugyanazok maradnak, s
ugyanazokrt a vlaszokrt kiltanak. Az, hogy
tudatban vagy annak, amit a blcsessg
tadsnak nevezel, azt mutatja, hogy a blcsessg
mg nem kerlt tadsra. Amint megkaptad, nem
leszel tbb tudatban. Ami valban a sajtod,
annak nem vagy tudatban. Aminek tudatban vagy,
arrl nem mondhat sem az, hogy te vagy, sem az,
hogy a tid. Tid az szlels hatalma, amit szlelsz,
az nem. Hiba azt felttelezni, hogy az ember egsze
tudatos. Ember a tudattalan, a tudatos, s a tudat
feletti, de te nem az ember vagy. Tid a mozivszon,
a fny, valamint a lts kpessge, de a kp nem te
vagy.
K: Keressem tovbb a Gurut, vagy annl maradjak,
akit megtalltam?
M: Valjban mr a krds elrulja, hogy mg nem
talltl egyet sem. Amg nem valsultl meg, addig
Gurutl Guruig fogsz vndorolni, de mikor
megtalltad nmagadat, a keress vget r. A Guru
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
When you are on the move, you pass so many
milestones. When you have reached your
destination, it is the last alone that mattered. In
reality all mattered at their own time and none
matters now.
Q: You seem to give no importance to the Guru. He
is merely an incident among others.
M: All incidents contribute, but none is crucial. On
the road each step helps you reach your destination,
and each is as crucial as the other, for each step
must be made, you cannot skip it. If you refuse to
make it, you are stuck.
Q: Everybody sings the glories of the Guru, while
you compare him to a milestone. Dont we need a
Guru?
M: Dont we need a milestone? Yes and no. Yes, if
we are uncertain, no if we know our way. Once we
are certain in ourselves, the Guru is no longer
needed, except in a technical sense. Your mind is
an instrument, after all, and you should know how to
use it. As you are taught the uses of your body, so
you should know how to use your mind.
Q: What do I gain by learning to use my mind?
M: You gain freedom from desire and fear, which
are entirely due to wrong uses of the mind. Mere
mental knowledge is not enough. The known is
accidental, the unknown is the home of the real. To
live in the known is bondage, to live in the unknown
is liberation.
Q: I have understood that all spiritual practice
consists in the elimination of the personal self. Such
practice demands iron determination and relentless
application. Where to find the integrity and energy
for such work?
M: You find it in the company of the wise?
Q: How do I know who is wise and who is merely
clever?
M: If your motives are pure, if you seek truth and
nothing else, you will find the right people. Finding
them is easy, what is difficult is to trust them and
take full advantage of their advice and guidance.
Q: Is the waking state more important for spiritual
practice than sleep?
412
mrfldk. Utazs kzben nagyon sok mrfldk
mellett elhaladsz. Amikor elred a clodat, az utols
mrfldk az, ami szmt. Valjban minden a maga
idejben, s semmi nem most szmt.
K: gy tnik, nem tulajdontasz fontossgot a
Gurunak. egy mozzanat csupn, egyebek kztt.
M: Minden mozzanatnak szerepe van, de semelyik
sem kritikus fontossg. Az ton minden lps a
clod elrst segti, s mindegyik annyira kritikus,
mint a msik, mert minden lpst meg kell tenni,
nem tudod tugrani. Ha megtagadod a megttelt,
megakadsz.
K: Mindenki a Guru dicssgrl nekel, mikzben
te mrfldkhz hasonltod. Nincs szksgnk
Gurura?
M: Nincs-e szksgnk mrfldkre? Van, s nincs.
Van, ha bizonytalanok vagyunk, nincs, ha ismerjk
az utat. Amint biztoss vlunk magunkban, nincs
tbb szksg Gurura, hacsak nem technikai
rtelemben. Az elmd egy mszer, vgs soron, s
tudnod kell, hogyan kell hasznlni. Ahogy
megtanultad hasznlni a tested, ugyan gy tudnod
kell, hogyan kell az elmdet hasznlni.
K: Mit nyerek azzal, ha megtanulom hasznlni az
elmmet?
M: Szabadsgot nyersz vgytl s flelemtl, amely
kizrlag elmd rossz hasznlata miatt van. Puszta
mentlis tuds nem elegend. Az ismert esetleges,
a nem ismert a valsg otthona. Az ismertben lni
ktttsg, a nem ismertben lni megszabaduls.
K: Tudom, hogy minden spiritulis gyakorlat a
szemlyes n kikszblsben ll. Az ilyen
gyakorlatok kkemny elhatrozst, s hajlthatatlan
szorgalmat kvetelnek meg. Hol tallhat az
integrits s energia, amely az ilyen munkhoz
szksges?
M: Kerested a blcs trsasgban?
K: Honnan tudhatom, ki a blcs, s ki az, aki okos
csupn?
M: Ha indtkaid tisztk, ha az igazsgot keresed,
s semmi mst, meg fogod tallni a megfelel
embert. Keresni ket knny, ami nehz, hinni
nekik, s teljes mrtkben lni a tancsaik, s
tmutatsaik nyjtotta lehetsggel.
K: Az brenlti llapot sokkal fontosabb a spiritulis
gyakorlat szempontjbl, mint az alvs?
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
M: On the whole we attach too much importance, to
the waking state. Without sleep the waking state
would be impossible; without sleep one goes mad or
dies; why attach so much importance to waking
consciousness, which is obviously dependent on the
unconscious? Not only the conscious but the
unconscious as well should be taken care of in our
spiritual practice.
Q: How does one attend to the unconscious?
M: Keep the I am in the focus of awareness,
remember that you are, watch yourself ceaselessly
and the unconscious will flow into the conscious
without any special effort on your part. Wrong
desires and fears, false ideas, social inhibitions are
blocking and preventing its free interplay with the
conscious. Once free to mingle, the two become one
and the one becomes all. The person merges into
the witness, the witness into awareness, awareness
into pure being, yet identity is not lost, only its
limitations are lost. It is transfigured, and becomes
the real Self, the sadguru, the eternal friend and
guide. You cannot approach it in worship. No
external activity can reach the inner self; worship
and prayers remain on the surface only; to go
deeper meditation is essential, the striving to go
beyond the states of sleep, dream and waking. In
the beginning the attempts are irregular, then they
recur more often, become regular, then continuous
and intense, until all obstacles are conquered.
Q: Obstacles to what?
M: To self-forgetting.
Q: If worship and prayers are ineffectual why do you K: Ha az istenimdsok s imdsgok hatstalanok,
worship daily, with songs and music, the image of
your Guru.
M: Those who want it, do it. I see no purpose in
interfering.
Q: But you take part in it.
M: Yes, it appears so. But why be so concerned with
me? Give all your attention to the question: What is
it that makes me conscious?, until your mind
becomes the question itself and cannot think of
anything else.
Q: All and sundry are urging me to meditate. I find
no zest in meditation, but I am interested in many
other things; some I want very much and my mind
goes to them; my attempts at meditation are so half-
hearted. What am I to do?
413
M: Egszben vve tl nagy fontossgot
tulajdontunk az brenlti llapotnak. Alvs nlkl az
brenlti llapot lehetetlen lenne; alvs nlkl az
ember megrl, vagy meghal; mirt tulajdontasz
olyan nagy fontossgot az brenlti tudatossgnak,
amely nyilvnvalan a tudattalantl fgg? Nem csak
a tudatosnak, a ugyangy gondjt kell viselni,
spiritulis gyakorlsunk sorn.
K: Hogyan tud az ember polni a tudattalant?
M: Tartsd az n vagyokot a tudat fkuszban,
tartsd emlkezetedben, hogy vagy, figyeld nmagad
szakadatlan, s a tudattalan be fog radni a
tudatosba, a rszedrl trtn minden klnsebb
erfeszts nlkl. Rossz vgyak s flelmek, hamis
idek, trsadalmi tiltsok blokkoljk s akadlyozzk
a tudatossal val szabad klcsnhatst. Amint
szabadon vegylhetnek, a kett eggy vlik, s az
egy mindenn vlik. A szemly beleolvad a tanba,
a tan a tudatba, a tudat a tiszta ltbe, mg az
identits sem vsz el, csak korltai vesznek el.
talakul, s a valdi nn, a sadguruv, az rk
bart, s vezet vlik. Nem tudod megkzelteni
imdsban. Semmilyen kls tevkenysg nem
tudja elrni a bels nt; istenimds s imdsgok
csak a felsznen maradnak; a mlyebbre hatolshoz
nlklzhetetlen a meditci, az alvs, lom s
brenlt llapotain val tllps rdekben folytatott
kzdelem. Az erfesztsek elszr szablytalanok,
majd egyre gyakrabban visszatrek, szablyoss
vlnak, majd folyamatoss, s intenzvv, mg
minden akadly lekzdsre nem kerl.
K: Minek az akadlyai?
M: Az nelfelejts.
mirt vgzel naponta istenimdst, nekekkel s
zenvel, Gurud kpe eltt?
M: Azok akik akarjk, csinljk. Nem ltom
clszernek megakadlyozni.
K: De te is rszt veszel benne.
M: Igen, gy ltszik. De mirt aggdsz rtem
annyira? Fordtsd teljes figyelmedet a krdsre: Mi
az, ami engem tudatoss tesz?, mgnem elmd
magv a krdss nem vlik, s nem tud semmi
msra gondolni.
K: Boldog boldogtalan meditcira buzdt. Nem
tallok semmi lvezetet a meditciban, viszont sok
ms dolog irnt rdekldm; nmelyiket nagyon
akarom, s gondolataim mindig krlttk jrnak;
meditcis ksrleteim elg lagymatagok. Mit
tegyek?
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
M: Ask yourself: To whom it all happens? Use
everything as an opportunity to go within. Light your
way by burning up obstacles in the intensity of
awareness. When you happen to desire or fear, it is
not the desire or fear that are wrong and must go,
but the person who desires and fears. There is no
point in fighting desires and fears which may be
perfectly natural and justified; It is the person, who is
swayed by them, that is the cause of mistakes, past
and future. The person should be carefully examined
and its falseness seen; then its power over you will
end. After all, it subsides each time you go to sleep.
In deep sleep you are not a self-conscious person,
yet you are alive. When you are alive and conscious,
but no longer self-conscious, you are not a person
anymore. During the waking hours you are, as if, on
the stage, playing a role, but what are you when the
play is over? You are what you are; what you were
before the play began you remain when it is over.
Look at yourself as performing on the stage of life.
The performance may be splendid or clumsy, but
you are not in it, you merely watch it; with interest
and sympathy, of course, but keeping in mind all the
time that you are only watching while the play -- life -
- is going on.
Q: You are always stressing the cognition aspect of
reality. You hardly ever mention affection, and will --
never?
M: Will, affection, bliss, striving and enjoying are so
deeply tainted with the personal, that they cannot be
trusted. The clarification and purification needed at
the very start of the journey, only awareness can
give. Love and will shall have their turn, but the
ground must be prepared. The sun of awareness
must rise first -- all else will follow.
87. Keep the Mind Silent and You shall
Discover
Questioner: Once I had a strange experience. I was
not, nor was the world, there was only light -- within
and without -- and immense peace. This lasted for
four days and then I returned to the every-day
consciousness.
Now I have a feeling that all I know is merely a
scaffolding, covering and hiding the building under
construction. The architect, the design, the plans,
the purpose -- nothing I know; some activity is going
on, things are happening; that is all I can say. I am
that scaffolding, some thing very flimsy and short-
414
M: Tedd fel magadnak a krdst: Kivel trtnik
mindez? Hasznlj mindent lehetsgknt, hogy
belemenj. Vilgtsd meg utadat az akadlyoknak a
tudat intenzitsban val felgetsvel. Ha gy
addik, hogy vgysz, vagy flsz, akkor nem a vgy
vagy flelem az, ami rossz, s elvetend, hanem a
szemly, aki vgyakozik, s fl. Nincs olyan pont a
vgyak s flelmek kzdelmben, amely tkletesen
termszetes, s igazolt lehetne; a szemly az, aki az
uralmuk alatt ll, az oka a hibknak, mltban s
jvben. A szemlyt gondosan meg kell vizsglni, s
hamissgt szemgyre kell venni; ekkor fltted
val hatalma vget r. Vgl is, a szemly minden
esetben elnyugszik, amikor elalszol. Mly alvsban
nem vagy ntudattal rendelkez szemly, mgis l
vagy. Amikor l s tudatos vagy, de mr nem
rendelkezel ntudattal, akkor nem vagy szemly
tbb. brenlti ridban mintha csak sznpadon
lennl, aki szerepet jtszik, de mi vagy, amikor vge
a jtknak? Vagy, ami vagy; ami voltl a jtk
kezdete eltt, az maradsz, amikor vge van is.
Tekints nmagadra, mint aki eladja lete szerept.
Az elads lehet ragyog, vagy lehet gyetlen, de te
nem vagy benne, te azt szemlled csupn;
rdekldssel, s szimptival termszetesen, de
egsz id alatt eszedben tartva, hogy csak szemll
vagy, amg a jtk az let zajlik.
K: Mindig a valsg ismereti aspektust emeled ki.
Szinte sohasem emlted a szeretetet, s nem is
fogod soha?
M: Akarat, szeretet, boldogsg, kzdelem s rm,
olyan mlyen szennyezettek a szemllyel, hogy nem
lehetnek bizalomra rdemesek. Szrsre s
tiszttsra van szksg mr az t legelejn, amit
csak a tudat adhat meg. Szeretetnek s akaratnak
meg lesz a maguk irnya, de az alapot el kell
kszteni. A tudat napjnak fel kell elbb kelnie
minden ms ezutn fog kvetkezni.
87. Tartsd elmdet csendesen, s fel
fogod fedezni
Krdez: Volt egyszer egy klns lmnyem. Nem
voltam n, a vilg sem volt, fny volt csak kvl s
bell , s mrhetetlen bke. Ngy napon keresztl
tartott ez az lmny, aztn visszatrt a htkznapi
tudatossgom.
Most gy rzem, mintha csak egy plflben lv
hzat bort, s elrejt llvnyzat lenne minden. Az
ptszt, a tervezst, a tervrajzokat, a clt egyiket
sem ismerem; valamilyen tevkenysg zajlik, dolgok
trtnnek; ez minden, amit mondani tudok. n
vagyok ez az llvnyzat, valami olyasmi, ami
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
lived; when the building is ready, the scaffolding will
be dismantled and removed. The I am and the
What am I are of no importance, because once the
building is ready, the I will go as a matter of course,
leaving no questions about itself to answer.
Maharaj: Are you not aware of all this? Is not the
fact of awareness the constant factor?
Q: My sense of permanency and identity is due to
memory, which is so evanescent and unreliable.
How little I remember, even of the recent past. I
have lived a life-time, and now what is left with me?
A bundle of events, at best a short story.
M: All this takes place within your consciousness.
Q: Within and without. In daytime -- within; in the
night -- without. Consciousness is not all. So many
things happen beyond its reach. To say that what I
am not conscious of does not exist, is altogether
wrong.
M: What you say is logical, but actually you know
only what is in your consciousness. What you claim
exists outside conscious experience is inferred.
Q: It may be inferred and yet it is more real than the
sensory.
M: Be careful. The moment you start talking you
create a verbal universe, a universe of words, ideas,
concepts and abstractions, interwoven and inter-
dependent, most wonderfully generating, supporting
and explaining each other and yet all without
essence or substance, mere creations of the mind.
Words create words, reality is silent.
Q: When you talk, I hear you. Is it not a fact?
M: That you hear is a fact. What you hear -- is not.
The fact can be experienced, and in that sense the
sound of the word and the mental ripples it causes
are experienced. There is no other reality behind it.
Its meaning is purely conventional, to be
remembered; a language can be easily forgotten,
unless practiced.
Q: If words have no reality in them why talk at all?
M: They serve their limited purpose of inter-personal
communication. Words do not convey facts, they
signal them. Once you are beyond the person, you
need no words.
Q: What can take me beyond the person? How to go K: Mi vihet engem tl a szemlyen? Hogyan kell
415
gyenge, s rvid let; amikor az plet ksz, az
llvnyzat lebontsra, s eltvoltsra fog kerlni. Az
n vagyok s a mi vagyok n nem fontosak, mert
amint az plet elkszl, az n magtl rtetden
eltvozik, nem hagyva maga utn megvlaszoland
krdseket.
Maharaj: Nem vagy tudatban mindennek? Nem a
tudat tnye az lland elem?
K: llandsg s nazonossg rzsem az
emlkezet miatt van, amely oly tnkeny, s
megbzhatatlan. Mily kevs az emlkem, mg a
legkzelebbi mltbl is. Leltem egy egsz letet, s
most mi maradt szmomra? Esemnyek egy ktege,
legfeljebb egy trtnetke.
M: Mindez a tudatossgodon bell van.
K: Bell, s kvl. Nap kzben bell; jszaka
kvl. A tudatossg nem minden. Oly sok dolog
trtnik a hatskrn tl. Azt mondani, hogy aminek
nem vagyok tudatban nem ltezik, abszolt hiba.
M: Logikus, amit mondasz, de valjban csak azt
tudod, ami benne van a tudatossgodban. Amit a
tudatossgon kvlinek tartasz, az kvetkezets.
K: Lehet, hogy kvetkeztets, mgis sokkal
valsgosabb, mint az rzki tapasztalat.
M: Vigyzat. Amint elkezdesz beszlni, ltrehozol
egy verblis univerzumot, szavak, idek, fogalmak
s absztrakcik univerzumt, amelyek egymsba
fondnak, s klcsnsen egymstl fggenek, a
legbmulatosabb mdon tmogatjk, s
magyarzzk egymst, s mgis lnyeg vagy
tartalom nlkliek, az elme teremtmnyei csupn.
Szavak teremtenek szavakat, a valsg csendes.
K: Amikor beszlsz, n hallak tged. Ez nem tny?
M: Az tny, hogy hallasz,. Amit hallasz nem az. A
tny tapasztalhat, s ebben az rtelemben a sz
hangzata, s az ltala okozott szellemi hullmok
kerlnek tapasztalsra. Nincs msik valsg
mgtte. Jelentse pusztn megllapodson alapul,
meg kell jegyezni; a nyelv knnyen elfelejthet, ha
nem gyakoroljk.
K: Ha a szavaknak nincs nmagukban vett
realitsuk, mirt van egyltaln beszd?
M: A szemlyek kztti kommunikciban tlt be
korltozott szerepet. A szavak nem kzvettenek
tnyeket, jelzik azokat. A szemly meghaladst
kveten nincs szksged szavakra.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
beyond consciousness?
M: Words and questions come from the mind and
hold you there. To go beyond the mind, you must be
silent and quiet. Peace and silence, silence and
peace -- this is the way beyond. Stop asking
questions.
Q: Once I give up asking questions, what am I to
do?
M: What can you do but wait and watch?
Q: What am I to wait for?
M: For the centre of your being to emerge into
consciousness. The three states -- sleeping,
dreaming and waking are all in consciousness, the
manifested; what you call unconsciousness will also
be manifested -- in time; beyond consciousness
altogether lies the unmanifested. And beyond all,
and pervading all, is the heart of being which beats
steadily -- manifested-unmanifested; manifested-
unmanifested (saguna-nirguna).
Q: On the verbal level it sounds all right. I can
visualise myself as the seed of being, a point in
consciousness, with my sense I am pulsating,
appearing and disappearing alternately. But what
am I to do to realise it as a fact, to go beyond into
the changeless, wordless Reality?
M: You can do nothing. What time has brought
about, time will take away.
Q: Why then all these exhortations to practice Yoga
and seek reality? They make me feel empowered
and responsible, while in fact it is time that does all.
M: This is the end of Yoga -- to realise
independence. All that happens, happens in and to
the mind, not to the source of the I am. Once you
realise that all happens by itself, (call it destiny, or
the will of God or mere accident), you remain as
witness only, understanding and enjoying, but not
perturbed.
Q: If I cease trusting words altogether, what will be
my condition?
M: There is a season for trusting and for distrusting.
Let the seasons do their work, why worry?
Q: Somehow I feel responsible for what happens
around me.
M: You are responsible only for what you can
416
meghaladni a tudatossgot?
M: A szavak s a krdsek az elmbl jnnek, s
tged ahhoz ktnek. Az elme meghaladshoz
csendesnek s nyugodtnak kell lenned. Bke s
csend, csend s bke ez a meghalads mdja.
lltsd le a krdezskdst.
K: Miutn lemondtam a krdezskdsrl, mit kell
tennem?
M: Mi egyebet tehetnl, mint vrsz, s figyelsz?
K: Mire kell vrnom?
M: Arra, hogy lted kzppontja megjelenjen a
tudatossgodban. A hrom llapot alvs, lom, s
brenlt idbeli; a megnyilvnulatlan teljes
egszben a tudatossgon tl llomsozik. s a lt
mindent meghalad, s mindent betlt szve sznet
nlkl dobogja megnyilvnult-megnyilvnulatlan;
megnyilvnult-megnyilvnulatlan (saguna-nirguna).
K: A szavak szintjn nagyszeren hangzik. El tudom
magamat kpzelni a lt magjaknt, a tudatossg egy
pontjaknt, amely az n vagyok rzsemmel val
egytt lktetsben vltakozva megjelenik, s eltnik.
De mit kell tennem azon tny realizlshoz, hogy
tl kell lpjek a megvltozhatatlanba, a szavakkal ki
nem fejezhet Valsgba?
M: Nem tudsz tenni semmit. Amit az id idzett el,
az id is fogja elvinni.
K: Akkor mire j mindeme buzdts a Yoga
gyakorlsra, s a valsg keressre? Ezek
engem hatalmaznak meg, s tesznek felelss,
mikzben valjban az id az, ami mindent elvgez.
M: Ez a Yoga vge a fggetlensg felismerse.
Ami trtnik, minden az elmben, s az elmvel
trtnik, nem az n vagyok forrsval. Amint
felismered, hogy minden magtl trtnik, (nevezd
sorsnak, Isten akaratnak, vagy puszta vletlennek),
te a puszta tan maradsz, aki megrt s lvez, de
nem megzavart.
K: Ha vgkpp megsznk hinni a szavakban,
milyen llapotba fogok kerlni?
M: Ideje van a hvsnek, s a nem hvsnek. Hagyd,
hogy az idk vgezzk a munkjukat, mirt
aggdsz?
K: Valamikppen felelssget rzek a krlttem
trtntekrt.
M: Te csak azrt vagy felels, amin vltoztatni
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
change. All you can change is only your attitude.
There lies your responsibility.
Q: You are advising me to remain indifferent to the
sorrows of others.
M: It is not that you are indifferent. All the sufferings
of mankind do not prevent you from enjoying your
next meal. The witness is not indifferent. He is the
fullness of understanding and compassion. Only as
the witness you can help another.
Q: All my life I was fed on words. The number of K: Egsz letemben szavakon ltem. Az ltalam
words I have heard and read go into the billions. Did hallott s olvasott szavak szma millirdokra rg.
it benefit me? Not at all. Volt belle hasznom? Egyltaln nem.
M: The mind shapes the language and the language
shapes the mind. Both are tools, use them but dont
misuse them. Words can bring you only unto their
own limit; to go beyond, you must abandon them.
Remain as the silent witness only.
Q: How can I? The world disturbs me greatly.
M: It is because you think yourself big enough to be
affected by the world. It is not so. You are so small
that nothing can pin you down. It is your mind that
gets caught, not you. Know yourself as you are -- a
mere point in consciousness, dimensionless and
timeless. You are like the point of the pencil -- by
mere contact with you the mind draws its picture of
the world. You are single and simple -- the picture is
complex and extensive. Dont be misled by the
picture -- remain aware of the tiny point -- which is
everywhere in the picture.
What is, can cease to be; what is not, can come to
be; but what neither is nor is not, but on which being
and non-being depend, is unassailable; know
yourself to be the cause of desire and fear, itself free
from both.
Q: How am I the cause of fear?
M: All depends on you. It is by your consent that the
world exists. Withdraw your belief in its reality and it
will dissolve like a dream. Time can bring down
mountains; much more you, who are the timeless
source of time. For without memory and expectation
there can be no time.
Q: Is the I am the Ultimate?
M: Before you can say: I am, you must be there to
say it. Being need not be self-conscious. You need
not know to be, but you must be to know.
Q: Sir, I am getting drowned in a sea of words. I can
see that all depends on how the words are out
417
tudsz. Mindssze hozzllsodat tudod
megvltoztatni. Ebben nyugszik a felelssged.
K: Azt a tancsod szmomra, hogy maradjak
rzketlen msok szomorsga irnt.
M: Ez nem jelenti, hogy rzketlen vagy. Az
emberisg sszes szenvedse se tartson vissza a
kvetkez tkezs lvezettl. A tan az, amely
nem rzketlen. a megrts, s knyrlet
teljessge. Csak a tanknt tudsz segteni msokon.
M: Az elme formlja a nyelvet, s a nyelv formlja az
elmt. Mindketten eszkzk, hasznld ket, de ne
lj vissza velk. A szavak csak az sajt hatraikig
vihetnek tged; a tllpshez el kell hagynod ket.
Maradj csupn a csendes tan.
K: Hogy tudnk? A vilg jelents mrtkben zavar.
M: Ez azrt van, mert azt hiszed, elg nagy vagy
ahhoz, hasson rd a vilg. Nem gy van. Olyan kicsi
vagy, hogy semmi nem tud odaszegezni. Csak
elmd akadt bele, nem te. Ismerd nmagad annak,
ami vagy egy kiterjeds nlkli, s idtlen pontnak
csupn a tudatossgban. Olyan vagy, akr a ceruza
hegye puszta rintsedre az elme lerajzolja kpt
a vilgrl. Te egyetlen, s egyszer vagy a kp
sszetett, s terjedelmes. Ne vezessen flre a kp
maradj tudatban az apr pontnak amely
mindentt ott van a kpen.
Ami van, megsznhet ltezni; ami nincs, belphet a
ltbe; de ami se nem van, se nem nincs, hanem
amitl a lt s nemlt fgg, az megtmadhatatlan;
ismerd nmagadat gy, mint a vgy s flelem okt,
de amely nmaga mindketttl szabad.
K: Mi mdon vagyok n a flelem oka?
M: Minden tled fgg. A te jvhagysoddal ltezik
a vilg. Vond meg a valsgba vetett hitedet, s
szerte fog foszlani, mint egy lom. Az id hegyeket
tud lednteni; te, aki idtlen forrsa az idnek,
sokkal tbbet. Mert emlkezet s elvrs nlkl nem
lehet id.
K: Az n vagyok a Vgs?
M: Mieltt azt tudnd mondani: n vagyok, lenned
kell, hogy mondhasd. A ltezshez nem kell
ntudatosnak lenni. A ltezshez nem kell tudnod,
de ltezned kell ahhoz, hogy tudj.
K: Uram, belefulladok a szavak tengerbe. Ltom,
minden attl fgg, a szavak hogyan kerlnek
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
together, but there must be somebody to put them
together -- meaningfully. By drawing words at
random the Ramayana, Mahabharata and
Bhagavata could never be produced. The theory of
accidental emergence is not tenable. The origin of
the meaningful must be beyond it. What is the power
that creates order out of chaos? Living is more than
being, and consciousness is more than living. Who
is the conscious living being?
M: Your question contains the answer: a conscious
living being is a conscious living being. The words
are most appropriate, but you do not grasp their full
import. Go deep into the meaning of the words:
being, living, conscious, and you will stop running in
circles, asking questions, but missing answers. Do
understand that you cannot ask a valid question
about yourself, because you do not know whom you
are asking about. In the question Who am I? the I
is not known and the question can be worded as: I
do not know what I mean by I What you are, you
must find out. I can only tell you what you are not.
You are not of the world, you are not even in the
world. The world is not, you alone are. You create
the world in your imagination like a dream. As you
cannot separate the dream from yourself, so you
cannot have an outer world independent of yourself.
You are independent, not the world. Dont be afraid
of a world you yourself have created. Cease from
looking for happiness and reality in a dream and you
will wake up. You need not know why and how,
there is no end to questions. Abandon all desires,
keep your mind silent and you shall discover.
88. Knowledge by the Mind, is not True
Knowledge
Questioner: Do you experience the three states of
waking, dreaming and sleeping just as we do, or
otherwise?
Maharaj: All the three states are sleep to me. My
waking state is beyond them. As I look at you, you
all seem asleep, dreaming up words of your own. I
am aware, for I imagine nothing. It is not samadhi
which is but a kind of sleep. It is just a state
unaffected by the mind, free from the past and
future. In your case it is distorted by desire and fear,
by memories and hopes; in mine it is as it is --
normal. To be a person is to be asleep.
Q: Between the body and pure awareness stands
the inner organ, antahkarana, the subtle body, the
mental body, whatever the name. Just as a whirling
mirror converts sunlight into a manifold pattern of
streaks and colours, so does the subtle body convert
418
egymshoz fzsre, de kell, hogy legyen valaki, aki
sszerakja ket rtelmesen. A szavak
vletlenszer sszeraksval a Ramayana, a
Mahabharata s a Bhagavata soha nem jhettek
volna ltre. A vletlenszer felbukkans nem
megvdhet. Mgtte ott kell lennie az rtelemmel
br forrsnak. Milyen hatalom tesz rendet a
koszban? Az let tbb, mint ltezs, s a
tudatossg tbb, mint let. Ki a tudatos llny?
M: Krdsed magban foglalja a vlaszt: a tudatos
llny a tudatos llny. Az imnti szavak a
leghelynvalbbak, de te nem fogod fel azokat a
teljes jelentsgkben. Mlyedj el a szavak
jelentsben: lt, l, tudatos, s abba fognak
maradni a krben jrs, a vlasz nlkli krdsek.
rtsd meg, hogy nem tudsz megalapozott krdst
feltenni nmagadrl, mert nem tudod, kirl krdezel.
A ki vagyok n krdsben az n nem ismert, s a
krdsbl add krds: nem tudom, mit rtsek az
n alatt. R kell jnnd, hogy mi vagyok te. n
csak azt tudom neked elmondani, hogy mi nem
vagy. Te nem vagy a vilg, mg csak nem is vagy
a vilgban. A vilg nem ltezik, egyedl te vagy. Te
teremted a vilgot a kpzeletedben, mint lmot.
Ahogy az lmot sem tudod elvlasztani nmagadtl,
gy a kls vilg sem lehet fggetlen nmagadtl.
Te vagy fggetlen, nem a vilg. Ne flj a vilgtl,
amit te magad teremtettl. Fejezd be, hogy
boldogsgot, s valsgot keress az lomban, s fl
fogsz bredni. Nem kell tudnod mirt, s hogyan,
ezek vg nlkli krdsek. Vess el minden vgyat,
tartsd elmdet csendesen, s fel fogod fedezni.
88. Az elme ltali tuds nem valdi tuds
Krdez: Ugyangy tapasztalod az brenlt,
lmods, s alvs hrom llapott, ahogy mi, vagy
mskppen?
Maharaj: Mind a hrom llapot bennem alszik. Az
n brenlti llapotom felettk ll. gy ltlak
benneteket, mint akik alszanak, s lmodjk sajt
szavaikat. n tudatos vagyok, mert nem kpzelek
semmit. Ez nem samadhi, amely csak az alvs egy
fajtja. Ez csupn egy llapot, amelyre nincs
hatssal az elme, mentes a mlttl s jvtl. A te
esetedben vgytl, flelemtl, emlkektl s
remnyektl torztott; az enym olyan, amilyen
normlis. Szemlynek lenni azt jelenti, aludni.
K: A test s a tiszta tudat kztt van a bels szerv,
az antahkarana, a finom test, a mentlis test,
mindegy, hogy nevezzk. Mint ahogy egy forg
tkr cskok, s sznek mindenfle mintzatv
konvertlja t a napfnyt, gy konvertlja t a finom
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
the simple light of the shining Self into a diversified
world. Thus I have understood your teaching. What I
cannot grasp is how did this subtle body arise in the
first instance?
M: It is created with the emergence of the I am
idea. The two are one.
Q: How did the I am appear?
M: In your world everything must have a beginning
and an end. If it does not, you call it eternal. In my
view there is no such thing as beginning or end --
these are all related to time. Timeless being is
entirely in the now.
Q: The antahkarana, or the subtle body, is it real or
unreal?
M: It is momentary. Real when present, unreal when M: Pillanatnyi. A jelenben valdi, azon tl valtlan.
over.
Q: What kind of reality? Is it momentary?
M: Call it empirical, or actual, or factual. It is the
reality of immediate experience, here and now,
which cannot be denied. You can question the
description and the meaning, but not the event itself.
Being and non-being alternate and their reality is
momentary. The Immutable Reality lies beyond
space and time. Realise the momentariness of being
and non-being and be free from both.
Q: Things may be transient, yet they are very much
with us, in endless repetition.
M: Desires are strong. It is desire that causes
repetition. There is no recurrence where desire is
not.
Q: What about fear?
M: Desire is of the past, fear is of the future. The
memory of past suffering and the fear of its
recurrence make one anxious about the future.
Q: There is also fear of the unknown.
M: Who has not suffered is not afraid.
Q: We are condemned to fear?
M: Until we can look at fear and accept it as the
shadow of personal existence, as persons we are
bound to be afraid. Abandon all personal equations
and you shall be free from fear. It is not difficult.
Desirelessness comes on its own when desire is
recognised as false. You need not struggle with
419
test a ragyog n egyszer fnyt vltozatos
vilgg. Ily mdon rtettem a tantsodat. Elszr is
azt nem tudom megrteni, hogyan tudott ez a finom
test megjelenni,?
M: Az n vagyok idea megjelensekor jtt ltre. A
kett egy.
K: Hogyan jelent meg az n vagyok?
M: A te vilgodban mindennek kell legyen kezdete
s vge. Ha nincs, akkor rkkvalnak nevezed.
Az n nzetemben nincs olyan dolog, mint kezdet,
vagy vg ezek mind az idvel kapcsolatosak. Az
idtlen lt teljesen a mostban van.
K: Az antahkarana, vagy finom test, valdi, vagy
nem valdi?
K: Milyen a valdi? Pillanatnyi?
M: Hvhatod tapasztalatinak, vagy aktulisnak, vagy
tnylegesnek. A kzvetlen tapasztalat valsga, itt
s most, ami nem cfolhat. A lerst, s a jelentst
vitathatod, de az esemnyt magt nem. Ltez s
nem ltez vltakoznak, s valsguk pillanatnyi. A
Megvltozhatatlan Valsg tren s idn tli.
Fedezd fel a lt s nemlt pillanatnyisgt, s
mindketttl szabad leszel.
K: Lehet, hogy a dolgok mulandk, mgis nagyon
sokat velnk vannak, vgtelen sokszor ismtldve.
M: A vgyak ersek. A vgy az, ami az ismtldst
okozza. Ahol nincs vgy, ott nincs jbli megjelens.
K: Mi a vlemnyed a flelemrl?
M: A vgy a mlt, a flelem a jv. A mltbeli
szenveds emlkei, s visszatrstl val flelem
teszi az embert gondterheltt a jvvel
kapcsolatban.
K: Az ismeretlentl val flelem is ltezik.
M: Aki nem szenvedett, nem fl.
K: Utastsuk el a flelmet?
M: Amg gy ltjuk a flelmet, s gy fogadjuk el,
mint az egyni ltezs rnykt, addig szemlyknt
hozz vagyunk ktve a flelemhez. Adj fel minden
szemlyes szemlletmdot, s megszabadulsz a
flelemtl. Nem nehz. A vgytalansg magtl
bekvetkezik, amikor a vgyat hamisnak ismered fel.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
desire. Ultimately, it is an urge to happiness, which Nem kell harcolnod a vggyal. Vgtre is, ez egy
is natural as long as there is sorrow. Only see that boldogsgra trekvs, amely termszetes, amg
there is no happiness in what you desire. szomorsg van. Csak lsd, hogy nincs boldogsg
abban, amire vgysz.

Q: We settle for pleasure. K: rjk be az rmmel.

M: Each pleasure is wrapped in pain. You soon M: Minden rm fjdalomba van csomagolva.
discover that you cannot have one without the other. Hamarosan felfedezed, hogy az egyik nem lehet a
tid a msik nlkl.

Q: There is the experiencer and there is his K: Van a tapasztal, s van a tapasztalat. Mi hozta
experience. What created the link between the two? ltre a kapcsolatot kettjk kztt?

M: Nothing created it. It is. The two are one. M: Semmi nem hozta ltre. A kett egy.

Q: I feel there is a catch somewhere, but I do not K: gy rzem, csapda van valahol, de nem tudom,
know where. hol.

M: The catch is in your mind, which insists on seeing M: A csapda az elmdben van, amely ragaszkodik
duality where there is none. hozz, hogy a dualitst lsson, ahol az nincs.

Q: As I listen to you, my mind is all in the now and I K: Mikzben hallgatlak, elmm teljesen a mostban
am astonished to find myself without questions. van, s meg vagyok dbbenve, hogy nincsenek
krdseim.

M: You can know reality only when you are M: Csak akkor ismerheted a valsgot, ha meg vagy
astonished. dbbenve.

Q: I can make out that the cause of anxiety and fear K: Kibogoztam, hogy az aggds s flelem oka az
is memory. What are the means for putting an end to emlkezet. Milyen eszkzkkel lehet vget vetni az
memory? emlkezetnek?

M: Dont talk of means, there are no means. What
you see as false, dissolves. It is the very nature of
illusion to dissolve on investigation. Investigate --
that is all. You cannot destroy the false, for you are
creating it all the time. Withdraw from it, ignore it, go
beyond, and it will cease to be.
M: Ne beszlj eszkzkrl, nincsenek eszkzk.
Amit hamisnak ltsz, az szertefoszlik. Az illzinak
valsgos termszete, hogy vizsglds hatsra
szertefoszlik. Vizsgldj ez minden. Nem tudod
megsemmisteni a hamisat, mert szakadatlanul
teremted azt. Tvolodj el tle, ne vgy rla
tudomst, lpj tl rajta, s megsznik ltezni.

Q: Christ also speaks of ignoring evil and being K: Krisztus szintn beszl gonosz elutastsrl, s
child-like. gyermekknt val ltezsrl.

M: Reality is common to all. Only the false is M: A valsg ltalnos, mindenki szmra. Csak a
personal. hamis szemlyes.

Q: As I watch the sadhakas and enquire into the
theories by which they live, I find they have merely
replaced material cravings by spiritual ambitions.
From what you tell us it looks as if the words:
spiritual and ambition are incompatible. If
spirituality implies freedom from ambition, what will
urge the seeker on? The Yogis speak of the desire
for liberation as essential. Is it not the highest form
of ambition?
K: Ahogy a sadhakkat ltom, s tanulmnyozom a
nzeteiket, amelyek szerint lnek, gy ltom, anyagi
vgyaikat egsz egyszeren spiritulis ambcikra
cserltk. Abbl amit elmondasz neknk gy ltszik,
mintha a spiritulis s ambci szavak
sszeegyeztethetetlenek lennnek. Ha a spiritulis
ambcimentessget jelent, mi fogja sztnzni a
keresst? A Yogik a szabadsg irnti vgyat
lnyegesnek tekintik. Ez nem az ambci
legemelkedettebb formja?

M: Ambition is personal, liberation is from the M: Az ambci szemlyes, a szemlyestl val

420
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
personal. In liberation both the subject and the
object of ambition are no longer. Earnestness is not
a yearning for the fruits of ones endeavours. It is an
expression of an inner shift of interest away from the
false, unessential, the personal.
Q: You told us the other day that we cannot even
dream of perfection before realisation, for the Self is
the source of all perfection and not the mind. If it is
not excellence in virtue that is essential for
liberation, then what is?
M: Liberation is not the result of some means
skilfully applied, nor of circumstances. It is beyond
the causal process. Nothing can compel it, nothing
can prevent it.
Q: Then why are we not free here and now?
M: But we are free here and now. It is only the mind M: De szabadok vagyunk, itt s most. Csak az
that imagines bondage. elme az, amely a ktelket kpzeli.
Q: What will put an end to imagination?
M: Why should you want to put an end to it? Once
you know your mind and its miraculous powers, and
remove what poisoned it -- the idea of a separate
and isolated person -- you just leave it alone to do its
work among things to which it is well suited. To keep
the mind in its own place and on its own work is the
liberation of the mind.
Q: What is the work of the mind?
M: The mind is the wife of the heart and the world
their home -- to be kept bright and happy.
Q: I have not yet understood why, if nothing stands
in the way of liberation, it does not happen here and
now.
M: Nothing stands in the way of your liberation and it
can happen here and now, but for your being more
interested in other things. And you cannot fight with
your interests. You must go with them, see through
them and watch them reveal themselves as mere
errors of judgement and appreciation.
Q: Will it not help me if I go and stay with some
great and holy man?
M: Great and holy people are always within your
reach, but you do not recognise them. How will you
know who is great and holy? By hearsay? Can you
trust others in these matters, or even yourself? To
convince you beyond the shadow of doubt you need
more than a commendation, more even than a
421
megszabaduls. A megszabadulsban mind a
szubjektv, mind az objektv ambcik megsznnek.
A komolysg nem az erfesztsek gymlcseirt
val epekedst jelenti. Az rdekldsnek a hamisrl,
lnyegtelenrl, a szemlyesrl val bels
elmozdulst fejezi ki.
K: Azt mondtad minap, hogy tkletessgrl mg
csak nem is lmodhatunk a megvalsuls eltt, mert
az n a forrsa minden tkletessgnek, s nem az
elme. Ha nem ernyekben val tkletessg az,
amely a megszabadulshoz nlklzhetetlen, akkor
mi az?
M: A megszabadulst nem bizonyos eszkzk
szakavatott alkalmazsa eredmnyezi, sem a
krlmnyek. Meghaladja az oksgi folyamatokat.
Semmi nem tudja kiknyszerteni, semmi nem tudja
meggtolni.
K: Akkor mirt nem vagyunk szabadok itt, s most?
K: Mi fog a kpzeldsnek vget vetni?
M: Mirt akarnl vget neki vetni? Ha megismered
elmdet, s annak csodlatos erejt, s eltvoltod
belle azt, ami mrgezi az klnll s elszigetelt
szemly idejt -, akkor csak hagyd magra,
dolgozzon azon dolgok kztt, amelyekre alkalmas.
Az elme sajt helyn, s munkjnl tartsa jelenti
az elme megszabadulst.
K: Mi az elme munkja?
M: Az elme a szv asszonya, s a vilg az otthonuk
tisztasgt s boldogsgt fenn kell tartania.
K: Mg mindig nem rtem, ha senki nem ll a
megszabaduls tjban, akkor mirt nem trtnik
meg itt s most?
M: Semmi nem ll megszabadulsod tjban, s az
itt s most megtrtnhet, de lnyed sokkal jobban
rdekldik egyb dolgok irnt. s nem tudsz
harcolni rdekldseiddel. Jrj velk egytt, lss
keresztl rajtuk, s figyeld meg ket amint puszta
tlkezsi s rzkelsi hibkknt felfedik magukat.
K: Nem jelentene szmomra segtsget, ha nagy s
szent emberek trsasgban tartzkodnk?
M: Nagy s szent emberek mindig vannak az
elrhetsgeden bell, de nem ismered fel ket.
Hogyan szeretnd megtudni, ki a nagy s szent?
Szbeszd alapjn? Msoknak hiszel ezekben a
krdsekben, vagy inkbb magadnak? A minden
ktsgen kvli meggyzdttsghez tbbre van
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
momentary rapture. You may come across a great
and holy man or women and not even know for a
long time your good fortune. The infant son of a
great man for many years will not know the
greatness of his father. You must mature to
recognise greatness and purify your heart for
holiness. Or you will spend your time and money in
vain and also miss what life offers you. There are
good people among your friends -- you can learn
much from them. Running after saints is merely
another game to play. Remember yourself instead
and watch your daily life relentlessly. Be earnest,
and you shall not fail to break the bonds of
inattention and imagination.
Q: Do you want me to struggle all alone?
M: You are never alone. There are powers and
presences who serve you all the time most faithfully.
You may or may not perceive them, nevertheless
they are real and active. When you realise that all is
in your mind and that you are beyond the mind, that
you are truly alone; then all is you.
Q: What is omniscience? Is God omniscient? Are
you omniscient? We hear the expression -- universal
witness. What does it mean? Does self-realisation
imply omniscience? Or is it a matter of specialised
training?
M: To lose entirely all interest in knowledge results
in omniscience. It is but the gift of knowing what
needs to be known, at the right moment, for error-
free action. After all, knowledge is needed for action
and if you act rightly, spontaneously, without
bringing in the conscious, so much the better.
Q: Can one know the mind of another person?
M: Know you own mind first. It contains the entire
universe and with space to spare.
Q: Your working theory seems to be that the waking
state is not basically different from dream and the
dreamless sleep. The three states are essentially a
case of mistaken self-identification with the body.
Maybe it is true, but, I feel, it is not the whole truth.
M: Do not try to know the truth, for knowledge by the
mind is not true knowledge. But you can know what
is not true -- which is enough to liberate you from the
false. The idea that you know what is true is
dangerous, for it keeps you imprisoned in the mind.
It is when you do not know, that you are free to
investigate. And there can be no salvation, without
investigation, because non-investigation is the main
cause of bondage.
422
szksged ajnlsnl, pillanatnyi elragadtatsnl.
Lehet, hogy tallkozol vletlenl egy nagy s szent
frfival vagy nvel, de mgsem ismered fel sokig j
szerencsdet. A nagy ember kisfia vekig nem
ismeri desapja nagysgt. A nagysg
felismershez rettnek, a szentsg felismershez
tiszta szvnek kell lenned. Vagy haszontalanul
fogod fecsrelni iddet s pnzedet, s azt is
elhibzod, amit az let tlcn knl szmodra. A j
emberek ott vannak a bartaid kztt sokat
tanulhatsz tlk. Szentek utn futni egyel tbb jtk
csupn. Ehelyett inkbb tartsd szben nmagadat,
s folytonosan figyeld mindennapi letedet. Lgy
komoly, s ne flj szttrni a figyelmetlensg s
kpzelet bilincseit.
K: Azt akarod, hogy egyedl kzdjek?
M: Soha nem vagy egyedl. Erk s jelenval
lnyek szolglnak tged, a legodaadbb mdon.
szleled ket, vagy sem, mindazonltal k valdiak,
s tevkenyek. Amikor felismered, hogy minden az
elmdben van, s hogy te az elmden tl vagy, hogy
valjban egyedl vagy; akkor minden te vagy.
K: Mi a mindentuds? Isten mindentud? Te
mindentud vagy? Hallunk olyan kifejezst, hogy
egyetemes tan. Mit jelent ez? Az nmegvalsts
mindentudst von maga utn? Vagy ez specilis
gyakorls krdse?
M: A mindentuds a tuds irnti minden rdeklds
teljes elvesztsnek az eredmnye. Csak a tuds
ajndkt kell ismerned a kell pillanatban, hogy
cselekedeted hibtlan legyen. Vgl is, tudsra a
cselekvsnek van szksge, s ha helyesen,
spontn mdon cselekszel, anlkl, hogy tudatban
lennl, gy a legjobb.
K: Megismerheti-e valaki egy msik szemly
elmjt?
M: Sajt elmdet ismerd meg elszr. Tartalmazza
az egsz univerzumot, s mg helytakarkos is.
K: gy ltszik az a munka terid, hogy az brenlt
llapota nem klnbzik alapveten az lomtl, s
az lomtalan alvstl. A hrom llapot lnyegben
a testtel val tves nazonosts esete. Lehet, hogy
gy van, de gy rzem, ez nem a teljes igazsg.
M: Ne trekedj az igazsg megismersre, mert az
elme ltali tuds nem valdi tuds. De azt
megismerheted, hogy mi nem igaz ami elegend a
hamistl val megszabadulshoz. Veszlyes idea,
hogy ismered az igazsgot, mert elmd brtnben
tart. Ez akkor van, amikor nem tudod, hogy
szabadsgodban ll kutatni. s a megvlts nem
lehetsges kutats nlkl, mert a nem-kutats a
ktttsg f oka.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: You say that the illusion of the world begins with
the sense I am, but when I ask about the origin of
the sense I am, you answer that it has no origin, for
on investigation it dissolves. What is solid enough to
build the world on cannot be mere illusion. The I am
is the only changeless factor I am conscious of; how
can it be false?
M: It is not the I am that is false, but what you take
yourself to be. I can see, beyond the least shadow of
doubt, that you are not what you believe yourself to
be. Logic or no logic, you cannot deny the obvious.
You are nothing that you are conscious of. Apply
yourself diligently to pulling apart the structure you
have built in your mind. What the mind has done the
mind must undo.
Q: You cannot deny the present moment, mind or no
mind. What is now, is. You may question the
appearance, but not the fact. What is at the root of
the fact?
M: The I am is at the root of all appearance and the M: Az n vagyok minden megjelens gykere, s
permanent link in the succession of events that we
call life; but I am beyond the I am. amit letnek neveznk; de n meghaladtam az n
Q: I have found that the realised people usually
describe their state in terms borrowed from their
religion. You happen to be a Hindu, so you talk of
Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva and use Hindu
approaches and imagery. Kindly tell us, what is the
experience behind your words? What reality do they
refer to?
M: It is my way of talking, a language I was taught to M: Ez az n beszdstlusom, ezt a nyelvet tanultam
use.
Q: But what is behind the language?
M: How can I put it into words, except in negating
them? Therefore, I use words like timeless,
spaceless, causeless. These too are words, but as
they are empty of meaning, they suit my purpose.
Q: If they are meaningless, why use them?
M: Because you want words where no words apply.
Q: I can see your point. Again, you have robbed me
of my question.
423
K: Azt mondod, hogy a vilg illzija az n vagyok
rzssel kezddik, de amikor az n vagyok rzs
eredetrl krdezek, azt vlaszolod, hogy nincs
eredete, mert a kutats nyomn szertefoszlik. Ami
elg szilrd, hogy felptsd r vilgot, nem lehet
puszta illzi. Az n vagyok az egyetlen
vltozhatatlan tnyez, aminek tudatban vagyok;
hogy lehetne hamis?
M: Nem az n vagyok a hamis, hanem aminek
tartod magad. Minden ktsgen fell tudom, hogy te
nem az vagy, akinek hiszed magad. Logikus vagy
sem, nem utasthatod el a nyilvnvalt. Semmi olyan
nem vagy, aminek tudatban vagy. Igyekezz
sztszaktani a struktrt, amit elmdben felptettl.
Amit az elme csinlt, az elmnek kell
visszacsinlnia.
K: Nem tagadhatod a jelen pillanatot, akr elme,
akr nem elme. Ami most van, az van. A
megjelenst ktsgbe vonhatod, de a tnyt nem. Mi
a tny eredete?
az lland kapcsolat az esemnyek sorozatban,
vagyok-ot.
K: Rjttem, hogy a megvalsult emberek ltalban
a vallsuktl klcsnztt kifejezsekkel rjk le
llapotukat. Te trtnetesen hindu vagy, ezrt
Brahmrl, Vishnurl s Shivrl beszlsz, valamint
Hindu szemlletmdot s kpeket alkalmazol. Lgy
szves, mondd el neknk, milyen tapasztalatok
vannak a szavaid mgtt. Azok milyen tnyekre
utalnak?
meg hasznlni.
K: De mi van a nyelv mgtt?
M: Hogy nthetnm szavakba, hacsak nem
tagadlag? Ezrt hasznlok olyan szavakat, mint
idtlen, korltlan, ok nlkli. Ezek is szavak, de
mivel rtelmetlenek, szolgljk clomat.
K: Ha rtelmetlenek, mirt hasznlod ket?
M: Mert szavakat akarsz, ahol nem hasznlhatk
szavak.
K: rtem, mi az llspontod. Ismt megfosztottl a
krdsemtl.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
89. Progress in Spiritual Life
Questioner: We are two girls from England, visiting
India. We know little about Yoga and we are here
because we were told that spiritual teachers play an
important role in Indian life.
Maharaj: You are welcome. There is nothing new
you will find here. The work we are doing is timeless.
It was the same ten thousand years ago. Centuries
roll on, but the human problem does not change --
the problem of suffering and the ending of suffering.
Q: The other day seven young foreigners have
turned up asking for a place to sleep for a few
nights. They came to see their Guru who was
lecturing in Bombay. I met him -- a very pleasant
looking young man is he -- apparently very matter-
of-fact and efficient, but with an atmosphere of
peace and silence about him. His teaching is
traditional with stress on karma Yoga, selfless work,
service of the Guru etc. Like the Gita, he says that
selfless work will result in salvation. He is full of
ambitious plans: training workers who will start
spiritual centres in many countries. It seems he
gives them not only the authority, but also the power
to do the work in his name.
M: Yes, there is such a thing as transmission of
power.
Q: When I was with them I had a strange feeling of
becoming invisible. The devotees, in their surrender
to their Guru surrendered me also. Whatever I did
for them was their Gurus doing and I was not
considered, except as a mere instrument. I was
merely a tap to turn left or right. There was no
personal relationship whatsoever. They tried a little
to convert me to their faith; as soon as they felt
resistance, they just dropped me from the field of
their attention. Even between themselves they did
not appear very much related; it is their common
interest in their Guru that kept them together. I found
it rather cold, almost inhuman. To consider oneself
an instrument in Gods hands is one thing; to be
denied all attention and consideration because all is
God may lead to indifference verging on cruelty.
After all, all wars are made in the name of God. The
entire history of mankind is a succession of holy
wars. One is never so impersonal as in war.
M: To insist, to resist, are contained in the will to be.
Remove the will to be and what remains? Existence
and non-existence relate to something in space and
time; here and now, there and then, which again are
in the mind. The mind plays a guessing game; it is
ever uncertain; anxiety-ridden and restless. You
resent being treated as a mere instrument of some
424
89. A spiritulis let fejldse
Krdez: Mi ketten angol lnyok vagyunk, Anglibl
jttnk, hogy megnzzk Indit. Nem sokat tudunk a
Yogrl, s ide azrt jttnk, mert hallottuk, hogy a
spiritulis tantk fontos szerepet jtszanak India
letben.
Maharaj: Legyetek dvzlve. Itt semmi jat nem
fogtok tallni. A mi munknk idtlen. Tzezer vvel
ezeltt is ugyanez volt. Az vszzadok telnek, de az
emberi problmk nem vltoznak a szenvedsnek,
s a szenveds megszntetsnek a problmja.
K: A minap belltott ht klfldi fiatal, helyet krtek,
ahol eltlthetnnek nhny jszakt. Gurujukat
jttek megltogatni, aki Bombayben tant.
Tallkoztam vele nagyon kellemes megjelens
fiatalember , aki lthatlag nagyon gyakorlatias, s
hatkony, de a bke s a csend atmoszfrja lengi
krl. Tantsa a hagyomnyt kvetve a karma
Yoga fontossgrl, az nzetlen munkrl, a Guru
szolglatrl, stb. szl. A Gitval egybehangzan
azt mondja, hogy az nzetlen munknak megvlts
a kvetkezmnye. Tele van ambicizus tervekkel:
munksokat akar kikpezni, akik majd sok
orszgban spiritulis kzpontokat fognak indtani.
gy tnik, nem csak megbzst ad nekik, hanem
hatalmat is, hogy az nevben mkdjenek.
M: Igen, ltezik olyan, hogy hatalom tads.
K: Furcsn rzem magam a trsasgukban, mintha
lthatatlan lennk. A rajongk a Gurujuk irnti
nfeladsukban rlam is lemondtak. Akrmit tettem
rtk, azt Gurujuk tette, s engem nem tekintettek
msnak, mint puszta szerszmnak. Egy jobbra-balra
fordthat csap voltam csupn. Nem volt velk
semmilyen szemlyes kapcsolatom. Prblkoztak
kicsit, hogy hitkre trtsenek; de amint ellenllst
reztek, kiestem a figyelmk hatkrbl. Mg k
maguk kztt sem ltszott gy, hogy nagyon sok
kapcsolat lenne; a Gurujuk fel irnyul kzs
rdekldsk tartotta ssze ket. Ezt nagyon
ridegnek, majdnem embertelennek talltam. Isten
kezben lv eszkznek tekinteni valakit, egy dolog;
minden figyelmet s tekintetbe vtelt megtagadni,
mivel minden Isten, kegyetlensggel hatros
kznyhz vezethet. Vgl is, minden hbort Isten
nevben vvtak. Az emberisg egsz trtnete
szent hbork sorozata. Az ember soha nem olyan
szemlytelen, mint hborban.
M: A ragaszkods s az ellenlls egyarnt benne
foglaltatnak a lenni akarsban. Tvoltsd el a lenni
akarst, s mi marad? Lt s nemlt valami trben
s idben lvre vonatkozik, itt s most, ott s
akkor, amelyek ismt az elmben vannak. Az elme
kitallsdit jtszik; folyton bizonytalan; aggdssal
megnyomortott s nyugtalan. Megorroltl, hogy egy
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
god, or Guru, and insist on being treated as a
person, because you are not sure of your own
existence and do not want to give up the comfort
and assurance of a personality. You may not be
what you believe yourself to be, but it gives you
continuity, your future flows into the present and
becomes the past without jolts. To be denied
personal existence is frightening, but you must face
it and find your identity with the totality of life. Then
the problem of who is used by whom is no more.
Q: All the attention I got was an attempt to convert
me to their faith. When I resisted they lost all interest megprbltak a hitkre trteni. Amikor ellenlltam,
in me.
M: One does not become a disciple by conversion,
or by accident. There is usually an ancient link,
maintained through many lives and flowering as love
and trust, without which there is no discipleship.
Q: What made you decide to become a teacher?
M: I was made into one by being called so. Who am
I to teach and whom? What I am, you are, and what
you are -- I am. The I am is common to us all;
beyond the I am there is the immensity of light and
love. We do not see it because we look elsewhere; I
can only point at the sky; seeing of the star is your
own work. Some take more time before they see the
star, some take less; it depends on the clarity of their
vision and their earnestness in search. These two
must be their own -- I can only encourage.
Q: What am I expected to do when I become a
disciple?
M: Each teacher has his own method, usually
patterned on his Gurus teachings and on the way
he himself has realised, and his own terminology as
well. Within that framework adjustments to the
personality of the disciple are made. The disciple is
given full freedom of thought and enquiry and
encouraged to question to his hearts content. He
must be absolutely certain of the standing and
competence of his Guru, otherwise his faith will not
be absolute nor his action complete. It is the
absolute in you that takes you to the absolute
beyond you -- absolute truth, love selflessness are
the decisive factors in self-realisation. With
earnestness these can be reached.
Q: I understand one must give up ones family and
possessions to become a disciple.
M: It varies with the Guru. Some expect their mature M: Ez a Gurutl fgg. Egyesek aszktizmust vrnak
425
isten, vagy Guru puszta eszkznek tekintettek, s
ragaszkodsz hozz, hogy embernek tekintsenek,
mert nem vagy biztos sajt ltedben, s nem akarod
feladni a szemlyisg knyelmt s biztonsgt.
Nem lehetsz az, aminek hiszed magad, de az ad
neked kontinuitst, jvd beleramlik a jelenbe, s
zkkenmentesen mltt vlik. A szemlyes lt
elutastsa flelmet kelt, de szembe kell nzned
vele, s fel kell, hogy fedezd az let teljessgvel
val azonossgodat. Akkor majd a ki kicsodt
hasznlt problmja nem fog tbb ltezni.
K: Mindssze annyi figyelemben rszestettek, hogy
elvesztettk irntam minden rdekldsket.
M: Az ember nem trts rvn vlik tantvnny,
vagy vletlenl. Ltezik ltalban egy si ktelk,
amely sok leten keresztl fennmarad, s akkor is
szeretetknt s bizalomknt virgzik, amikor sz
sincs tantvnysgrl.
K: Mirt dntttl gy, hogy tant leszel?
M: gy lettem az, hogy elkezdtek gy nevezni. Ki
vagyok n, hogy tantsak, s kit? Ami n vagyok, te
vagy, s ami te vagy n vagyok. Az n vagyok
mindegyiknk szmra kzs; az n vagyokon tl
pedig a mrhetetlen fny s szeretet van. Nem
ltjuk, mert msfel nznk; n csak az gre tudok
mutatni; a csillag ltsa a te dolgod. Egyeseknek
tbb idbe telik, hogy meglssk a csillagot,
msoknak kevesebbe; attl fgg, milyen vilgos a
ltsuk, s hogy milyen komolyan keresnek. E
kettvel rendelkezned kell n csak btortani
tudlak.
K: Mi vrhat el tlem, mit csinljak, hogy
tantvnny vljak?
M: Mindegyik tantnak sajt, rendszerint Guruja
tantsait mintz mdszere van, amit az ton
maga megvalstott, tovbb sajt terminolgija. E
kereten bell igaztja hozz a tantsait a tantvny
szemlyisghez. A tantvny teljes szabadsgot
kap, hogy gondolkodjon s kutasson, s btortst,
hogy szvnek tartalmval kapcsolatos krdseket
feltegye. Felttlenl bizonyosnak kell lennie
Gurujnak tekintlye s alkalmassga fell,
msklnben sem hite nem lesz felttlen, sem
cselekedete nem lesz teljes. A benned lv abszolt
vezet el tged a rajtad tli abszolthoz az abszolt
igazsg, a szeret nzetlensg az nmegvalsts
bizonyt erej tnyezihez. Komolysggal ezek
elrhetk.
K: gy tudom, az embernek fel kell, hogy adja
csaldjt, s vagyont, hogy tantvnny vlhasson.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
disciples to become ascetics and recluses; some
encourage family life and duties. Most of them
consider a model family life more difficult than
renunciation, suitable for a personality more mature
and better balanced. At the early stages the
discipline of monastic life may be advisable.
Therefore, in the Hindu culture students up to the
age of 25 are expected to live like monks -- in
poverty, chastity and obedience -- to give them a
chance to build a character able to meet the
hardships and temptations of married life.
el rett tantvnyaiktl, s hogy elforduljanak a
vilgtl; msok tmogatjk a csaldi letet s
ktelessgeket. Java rszk a lemondsnl sokkal
nehezebben kezelhetnek tartja a csaldi
letmodellt az rettebb, s kiegyenslyozottabb
szemlyisg szmra. A fegyelmezs korai
szakaszaiban hasznos lehet a kolostori let. Ezrt
elvrs a Hindu kultrban, hogy a tanul 25 ves
korig szerzetesknt szegnysg,
nmegtartztats, s szerzetesi engedelmessg
kzepette ljen, ezltal lehetsget kap egy olyan
jellem felptsre, amely kpes megfelelni a
hzaslet megprbltatsainak, s ksrtseinek.

Q: Who are the people in this room? Are they your K: Kik ezek az emberek, ebben a szobban? A
disciples? tantvnyaid?

M: Ask them. It is not on the verbal level that one
becomes a disciple, but in the silent depths of ones
being. You do not become a disciple by choice; it is
more a matter of destiny than self-will. It does not
matter much who is the teacher -- they all wish you
well. It is the disciple that matters -- his honesty and
earnestness. The right disciple will always find the
right teacher.
M: ket krdezd. A tantvnny vls nem verblis
szinten trtnik, hanem az emberi lt csendes
mlysgeiben. Nem vlaszts alapjn vlsz
tantvnny; sokkal inkbb sors, mint sajt
elhatrozs krdse. Nem sokat szmt, ki a tant
mind jt akarnak neked. A tantvny az, aki szmt
a becsletessge, a komolysga. Az alkalmas
tantvny mindig meg fogja tallni az alkalmas
tantt.

Q: I can see the beauty and feel the blessedness of K: Ltom az igazsg keressnek szentelt,
a life devoted to search for truth under a competent hozzrt, s szeret tant alatti let szpsgt, s
and loving teacher. Unfortunately, we have to return rzem a boldogsgt. Sajnlom, hogy vissza kell
to England. trnem Angliba.

M: Distance does not matter. If your desires are M: A tvolsg nem szmt. Ha vgyaid ersek s
strong and true, they will mould your life for their igazak, t fogjk formlni letedet, hogy
fulfilment. Sow you seed and leave it to the seasons. beteljesedjenek. Vesd el a magot, a tbbit hagyd a
termszetre.

Q: What are the signs of progress in spiritual life? K: Mik a spiritulis let fejldsnek a jelei?

M: Freedom from anxiety; a sense of ease and joy; M: Aggodalom mentessg; knnysg- s rm
deep peace within and abundant energy without. rzs; mly bels bke, s bsges kls energia.

Q: How did you get it? K: Hogyan rted el?

M: I found it all in the holy presence of my Guru -- I M: Mindennek a megtallsa teljesen Gurum szent
did nothing on my own. He told me to be quiet -- and jelenltnek ksznhet semmit nem sajt
I did it -- as much as I could. magamtl csinltam. Azt mondta, legyek csendes
s n gy tettem ahogy csak tudtam.

Q: Is your presence as powerful as his? K: A te jelenlted is olyan erteljes, mint az v?

M: How am I to know? For me -- his is the only M: Honnan tudhatnm? Szmomra az jelenlte
presence. If you are with me, you are with him. az egyetlen. Ha velem vagy, akkor vele vagy.

Q: Each Guru will refer me to his own Guru. Where K: Minden Guru a sajt Gurujra hivatkozik. Hol a
is the starting point? kiindulpont?

M: There is a power in the universe working for M: Ltezik egy er az univerzumban, amely a
enlightenment -- and liberation. We call it Sadashiva, megvilgosodsrt s a megszabadulsrt
who is ever present in the hearts of men. It is the dolgozik. gy hvjuk Sadashiva, aki rkk jelen van

426
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
unifying factor. Unity -- liberates. Freedom -- unites.
Ultimately nothing is mine or yours -- everything is
ours. Just be one with yourself and you will be one
with all, at home in the entire universe.
Q: You mean to say that all these glories will come
with the mere dwelling on the feeling I am?
M: It is the simple that is certain, not the
complicated. Somehow, people do not trust the
simple, the easy, the always available. Why not give
an honest trial to what I say? It may look very small
and insignificant, but it is like a seed that grows into
a mighty tree. Give yourself a chance.
Q: I see so many people sitting here -- quietly. What
for have they come?
M: To meet themselves. At home the world is too
much with them. Here nothing disturbs them; they
have a chance to take leave of their daily worries
and contact the essential in themselves.
Q: What is the course of training in self-awareness?
M: There is no need of training. Awareness is
always with you. The same attention that you give to
the outer, you turn to the inner. No new, or special
kind of awareness is needed.
Q: Do you help people personally?
M: People come to discuss their problems.
Apparently they derive some help, or they would not
come.
Q: Are the talks with people always in public, or will
you talk to them privately also?
M: It is according to their wish. Personally, I make
no distinction between public and private.
Q: Are you always available, or have you other work K: Mindig rendelkezsre llsz, vagy ms dolgod is
to do? van?
M: I am always available, but the hours in the M: Mindig rendelkezsre llok, De a reggeli s a
morning and late afternoon are the most convenient. ks dlutni rk a legalkalmasabbak.
Q: I understand that no work ranks higher than the
work of a spiritual teacher.
M: The motive matters supremely.
427
az emberek szvben. az egyest hater. Az
egysg megszabadt. A szabadsg egyest.
Vgs soron semmi nem enym, vagy tid minden
a mink. Csak lgy egy nmagaddal, s egy leszel
mindennel, otthon leszel az egsz univerzumban.
K: Azt akarod mondani, hogy mindeme dicssg
pusztn az n vagyok-ban idzssel jn?
M: Az egyszer a biztos, nem a bonyolult. Valamirt
az emberek nem hiszik az egyszert, a knnyt, a
mindig rendelkezsre llt. Mirt nem veted al amit
mondok egy jhiszem prbnak? Ltszlag
nagyon kicsi s jelentktelen, de olyan, mint a mag,
amely hatalmas fv n. Adj magadnak egy eslyt.
K: Sok embert ltok itt lni csendesen. Mirt jttek
ide?
M: Hogy egymssal tallkozzanak. Otthon tl sok a
vilg szmukra. Itt nem zavarja ket semmi; eslyk
van bcst venni napi gondjaiktl, s kapcsolatba
kerlni azzal, ami nmagukban lnyeges.
K: Milyen tanfolyami gyakorlat szolgl az n-
tudatossg elrsre?
M: Nincs szksg gyakorlsra. A tudat mindig veled
van. Ugyanazt a figyelmet fordtod kifel, mint amit
befel. Nincs szksg sem j, sem valamilyen
specilis tudatra.
K: Segtesz az embereknek szemlyesen?
M: Az emberek a problmikat jnnek ide
megbeszlni. gy ltszik, hogy kapnak valamifle
segtsget, klnben nem jnnnek.
K: Az emberekkel val beszlgets mindig
nyilvnosan zajlik, vagy bizalmasan is beszlsz
velk?
M: Ahogyan k akarjk. Ami engem illet, szmomra
nincs klnbsg nyilvnos s bizalmas kztt.
K: gy gondolom, nincs nagyra becsltebb munka,
mint a spiritulis tant.
M: A motivci mindenek fltt lnyeges.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok

90. Surrender to Your Own Self
Questioner: I was born in the United States, and
the last fourteen months I have spent in Sri
Ramanashram; now I am on my way back to the
States where my mother is expecting me.
90. Add t nmagad sajt nednek
Krdez: Az Egyeslt llamokban szlettem, s az
utbbi tizenngy hnapot Sri Ramanashramban
tltttem; most visszamegyek az llamokba, ahol
anym vr.

Maharaj: What are your plans? Maharaj: Mik a terveid?

Q: I may qualify as a nurse, or just marry and have K: Lehet, hogy nvri kpestst szerzek, de lehet,
babies. hogy csak frjhez megyek, s gyerekeim lesznek.

M: What makes you want to marry? M: Mirt akarsz frjhez menni?

Q: Providing a spiritual home is the highest form of
social service I can think of. But, of course, life may
shape otherwise. I am ready for whatever comes.
K: Egy spiritulis otthonrl val gondoskods a
szocilis szolglat azon legmagasabb formja,
amire csak gondolni tudok. De az let,
termszetesen, mskpp is alakulhat. Kszen llok
r, akrmi is kvetkezzk.

M: These fourteen months at Sri Ramanashram, M: Ez a Sri Ramanashramban tlttt tizenngy

what did they give you? In what way are you hnap mit adott neked? Mi vltozott benned, mita
different from what you were when you arrived megrkeztl?
there?

Q: I am no longer afraid. I have found some peace. K: Nem flek tbb. Bkre leltem.

M: What kind of peace is it? The peace of having M: Mifle bkre? Annak bkjre, hogy birtoklod,
what you want, or not wanting what you do not amit kvnsz, vagy azra, hogy nem kvnod, amid
have? nincs?

Q: A little of both, I believe. It was not easy at all. K: Azt hiszem, hogy egy kicsit mindkettre.
While the Ashram is a very peaceful place, inwardly Egyltaln nem volt knny. Mikzben az Ashram
I was in agonies. egy nagyon bks hely, bels gytrelmeim voltak.

M: When you realise that the distinction between M: Amikor felismered, hogy a bels s kls kztti
inner and outer is in the mind only, you are no longer klnbsg csak az elmben van, flelmeid
afraid. megsznnek.

Q: Such realisation comes and goes with me. I have K: Az ilyenfajta felismers velem egytt jn, s
not yet reached the immutability of absolute megy. Mg nem rtem el az abszolt teljessg
completeness. vltozhatatlansgt.

M: Well, as long as you believe so, you must go on
with your sadhana, to disperse the false idea of not
being complete. Sadhana removes the super-
impositions. When you realise yourself as less than
a point in space and time, something too small to be
cut and too short-lived to be killed, then, and then
only, all fear goes. When you are smaller than the
point of a needle, then the needle cannot pierce you
-- you pierce the needle.
M: Nos, amg gy hiszed, addig tovbb kell
folytatnod Sadhandat, hogy eloszlasd a nem
teljessg hamis idejt. A sadhana eltvoltja a
rrakdsokat. Amikor annak ismered fel magad,
ami egy tr- s idbeli pontnl kisebb, valaminek,
ami tl kicsi ahhoz, hogy elvghat legyen, tl rvid
let ahhoz, hogy lett elveszthetn, akkor, s
csak akkor fog minden flelem megsznni. Amikor
kisebb vagy, mint a t hegye, akkor a t nem tud
megszrni te szrod meg a tt.

Q: Yes, that is how I feel sometimes -- indomitable. I K: Igen, gy rzem magamat olykor
am more than fearless -- I am fearlessness itself. megfkezhetetlennek. Tbb vagyok, mint flelem
nlkli n vagyok maga a flelem nlklisg.

M: What made you go to the Ashram? M: Mi ksztetett r, hogy az Ashramba menj?

428
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: I had an unhappy love affair and suffered hell.
Neither drink nor drugs could help me. I was groping
and came across some books on Yoga. From book
to book, from clue to clue -- I came to
Ramanashram.
M: Were the same tragedy to happen to you again,
would you suffer as much, considering your present
state of mind?
Q: Oh no, I would not let myself suffer again. I would K: , nem, nem engednm magam t a jbl
kill myself.
M: So you are not afraid to die.
Q: I am afraid of dying, not of death itself. I imagine
the dying process to be painful and ugly.
M: How do you know? It need not be so. It may be
beautiful and peaceful. Once you know that death
happens to the body and not to you, you just watch
your body falling off like a discarded garment.
Q: I am fully aware that my fear of death is due to
apprehension and not knowledge.
M: Human beings die every second, the fear and the
agony of dying hangs over the world like a cloud. No
wonder you too are afraid. But once you know that
the body alone dies and not the continuity of
memory and the sense of I am reflected in it, you
are afraid no longer.
Q: Well, let us die and see.
M: Give attention and you will find that birth and
death are one, that life pulsates between being and
non-being, and that each needs the other for
completeness. You are born to die and you die to be
reborn.
Q: Does not detachment stop the process?
M: With detachment the fear goes, but not the fact.
Q: Shall I be compelled to be reborn? How dreadful.
M: There is no compulsion. You get what you want.
You make your own plans and you carry them out.
Q: Do we condemn ourselves to suffer?
M: We grow through investigation, and to investigate
we need experience. We tend to repeat what we
have not understood. If we are sensitive and
intelligent, we need not suffer. Pain is a call for
429
K: Egy boldogtalan szerelmi kapcsolat utn voltam,
s pokoli mdon szenvedtem. Se ital, se drog nem
segtett. Keresgltem, s vletlenl rakadtam
nhny Yoga knyvre. Knyvtl knyvig, kulcstl
kulcsig haladtam s eljttem a Ramanashramba.
M: Ha ismt hasonl tragdia trtnne veled,
szenvednl-e ugyanennyit, ha tekintetbe vesszk
elmd jelenlegi llapott?
szenvedsnek. Meglnm magam.
M: Teht nem flsz a halltl.
K: Szmomra a haldokls a flelmetes, nem a hall
maga. gy kpzelem, hogy a hall folyamata
fjdalmas s csnya.
M: Honnan tudod? Nem kell gy lennie. Lehet szp,
s bks is. Amint tudatban vagy, hogy a halllal
csak a test hal meg, s nem te, akkor csak figyeled
ahogy a tested lehullik, mint egy kidobott ruha.
K: Tkletesen tudatban vagyok, hogy a halltl a
felfogsom, s nem a tudsom miatt flek.
M: Minden msodpercben emberi lnyek halnak
meg, a flelem s a halltusa felhknt terpeszkedik
a vilg fl. Ne csodlkozz, hogy te is flsz. De
mihelyt tudatban vagy, hogy egyedl a test hal
meg, az emlkezet folytonossga, s az abban
tkrzd n vagyok rzs pedig nem, soha tbb
nem flsz.
K: Nos, haljunk meg, s megltjuk.
M: Figyelj, s felfedezed, hogy szlets s hall
egyek, hogy az let lt s nemlt kztt lktet, s
hogy mindegyiknek szksge van a msikra a
teljessghez. Szletned kell, hogy meghalj, s
halnod kell, hogy jra szless.
K: A szenvtelensg nem lltja meg a folyamatot?
M: Szenvtelensg rvn a flelem sznik meg, de
maga a tny nem.
K: Knytelen leszek jra szletni? Milyen szrny.
M: Nincs sz knyszerrl. Azt kapod, amit akarsz.
Te kszted sajt terveidet, s te hajtod vgre
azokat.
K: Szenvedsre tljk magunkat?
M: Fejldnk a kutats rvn, s a kutatshoz
tapasztalatra van szksg. Hajlunk r, hogy amit
nem rtettnk meg, azt megismteljk. Ha
rzkenyek, s intelligensek vagyunk, nem
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
attention and the penalty of carelessness. Intelligent
and compassionate action is the only remedy.
Q: It is because I have grown in intelligence that I K: Csak azrt, mert gyarapodott az intelligencim,
would not tolerate my suffering again. What is wrong nem brnm ki jra a szenvedst. Mi a problma az
with suicide? ngyilkossggal?
M: Nothing wrong, if it solves the problem. What, if it
does not? Suffering caused by extraneous factors --
some painful and incurable disease, or unbearable
calamity -- may provide some justification, but where
wisdom and compassion are lacking, suicide cannot
help. A foolish death means foolishness reborn.
Besides there is the question of karma to consider.
Endurance is usually the wisest course.
Q: Must one endure suffering, however acute and
hopeless?
M: Endurance is one thing and helpless agony is
another. Endurance is meaningful and fruitful, while
agony is useless.
Q: Why worry about karma? It takes care of itself
anyhow.
M: Most of our karma is collective. We suffer for the
sins of others, as others suffer for ours. Humanity is
one. Ignorance of this fact does not change it. We
could have been much happier people ourselves,
but for our indifference to the sufferings of others.
Q: I find I have grown much more responsive.
M: Good. When you say it, what do you have in
mind? Yourself, as a responsive person within a
female body?
Q: There is a body and there is compassion and
there is memory and a number of things and
attitudes; collectively they may be called a person.
M: Including the I am idea?
Q: The I am is like a basket that holds the many
things that make a person.
M: Or, rather, it is the willow of which the basket is
woven. When you think of yourself as a women, do
you mean that you are a women, or that your body is
described as female?
Q: It depends on my mood. Sometimes I feel myself
to be a mere centre of awareness.
M: Or, an ocean of awareness. But are there
430
szksges szenvednnk. A fjdalom figyelem
felhvs, s az elvigyzatlansg szankcionlsa.
Az intelligens s egytt rz cselekvs az egyetlen
gygyszer.
M: Nincs semmi problma vele, ha megoldja a
problmt. De mi van, ha nem? Kls krlmnyek
okozta szenveds fjdalmas s gygythatatlan
betegsg, vagy elviselhetetlen csaps nyjthat
valamifle igazolst, de ahol hinyzik a blcsessg
s a rszvt, ott az ngyilkossg nem segthet.
Ostoba hall ostoba jjszletst jelent. Ezenkvl a
karma krdst is tekintetbe kell venni. ltalban a
kitarts a legblcsebb kezels.
K: Az embernek trnie kell a szenvedst,
brmennyire slyos s remnytelen?
M: A kitarts egy dolog, s a remnytelen gytrds
egy msik. A kitarts rtelmes s gymlcsz, mg
a gytrds haszontalan.
K: Mirt kell a karma miatt aggdni? Klnben is
gondot visel az magra.
M: Legtbb karmnk kollektv. Szenvednk msok
bnei miatt, mint ahogy msok is szenvednek a
mieink miatt. Az emberisg egy. E tny nem tudsa
nem vltoztatja meg azt. Mi magunk is sokkal
boldogabb emberek lehetnnk, ha nem lennnk
kznysek msok szenvedse irnt.
K: gy gondolom, n sokkal rzkenyebb vltam.
M: rvendetes. Amikor ezt mondod, mi van az
elmdben? nmagad, mint rzkeny szemly egy
ni testben?
K: A test, a knyrlet, az emlkezet, valamint
szmtalan dolog, s attitd; ezek egyttesen
szemlynek nevezhetk.
M: Az n vagyok idet is belertve?
K: Az n vagyok olyan, akr egy kosr, amely a
szemlyt alkot sok dolgot tartalmazza.
M: Vagy inkbb, ahhoz a fzfhoz hasonl,
amelybl a kosarat fontk. Amikor nknt gondolsz
nmagadra, gy rted, hogy te n vagy, vagy gy,
hogy a tested nnemknt rhat le?
K: Ez a hangulatomtl fgg. Nha gy rzem, hogy
a tudatossg kzpontja vagyok csupn.
M: Vagy a tudat cenja. De vannak-e pillanatok,
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
moments when you are neither man nor women, not mikor nem vagy se frfi, se n, sem a vletlen, a
the accidental, occasioned by circumstances and krlmnyek s felttelek ltal elidzett?
conditions?
Q: Yes, there are, but I feel shy to talk about it.
M: A hint is all that one can expect. You need not
say more.
Q: Am I allowed to smoke in your presence? I know
that it is not the custom to smoke before a sage and
more so for a women.
M: By all means, smoke, nobody will mind. We
understand.
Q: I feel the need of cooling down.
M: It is very often so with Americans and
Europeans. After a stretch of sadhana they become
charged with energy and frantically seek an outlet.
They organise communities, become teachers of
Yoga, marry, write books -- anything except keeping
quiet and turning their energies within, to find the
source of the inexhaustible power and learn the art
of keeping it under control.
Q: I admit that now I want to go back and live a very
active life, because I feel full of energy.
M: You can do what you like, as long as you do not
take yourself to be the body and the mind. It is not
so much a question of actual giving up the body and
all that goes with it, as a clear understanding that
you are not the body. A sense of aloofness, of
emotional non-involvement.
Q: I know what you mean. Some four years ago I
passed through a period of rejection of the physical;
I would not buy myself clothes, would eat the
simplest foods, sleep on bare planks. It is the
acceptance of the privations that matters, not the
actual discomfort. Now I have realised that
welcoming life as it comes and loving all it offers, is
best of it. I shall accept with glad heart whatever
comes and make the best of it. If I can do nothing
more than give life and true culture to a few children
-- good enough; though my heart goes out to every
child, I cannot reach all.
M: You are married and a mother only when you are
man-women conscious. When you do not take
yourself to be the body, then the family life of the
body, however intense and interesting, is seen only
as a play on the screen of the mind, with the light of
awareness as the only reality.
431
K: Igen, vannak, de flek beszlni rla.
M: Egy clzs tbb, mint amit el lehet vrni. Nem
kell tbbet mondanod.
K: Megengeded, hogy rgyjtsak a jelenltedben?
Tudom, hogy nem szoks egy blcs eltt
dohnyozni, s egy nnek sokkal inkbb nem.
M: Hogyne, dohnyozz, senkit nem zavar.
Megrtjk.
K: Szksgem van r, hogy megnyugodjak.
M: Ez nagyon gyakori az amerikaiak s eurpaiak
esetben. Egy bizonyos idej sadhana utn fel
vannak tltdve energival, s ktsgbeesetten
keresik a levezetst. Kzssgeket szerveznek,
Yoga tanrok lesznek, hzasodnak, knyvet rnak
mindent megtesznek, a csendben marads, s
energiik befel fordtsa kivtelvel, hogy
megtalljk a kimerthetetlen er forrst, s
megtanuljk annak mvszett, hogyan tartsk azt
kontroll alatt.
K: Bevallom, most vissza akarok menni, s egy
nagyon aktv letet akarok lni, mert gy rzem, tele
vagyok energival.
M: Tehetsz, amit akarsz, amg nem tartod nmagad
a testnek, s az elmnek. Nem annyira az a krds,
hogy feladd a testet, s mindent, ami ezzel jr, mint
annak vilgos megrtse, hogy te nem a test vagy.
A tartzkods az rzelmi be nem avatkozs rzse.
K: Tudom, hogy rted. Mintegy ngy vvel ezeltt
testem a fizikai elutasts egy peridusn; nem
akartam magamnak ruhkat venni, a legegyszerbb
teleket akartam enni, csupasz deszkn akartam
aludni. A nlklzs elfogadsa, ami szmt
valjban, nem a knyelmetlensg. Mostanra
felismertem, hogy legjobb az letet gy elfogadni,
ahogy jn, s mindent szeretni, amit felknl.
rvendez szvvel elfogadok brmit, ami jn, s
berem vele. Ha nem tudok semmi tbbet tenni,
mint hogy nhny gyermeknek letet, s j nevelst
adok mr elg j; noha majd meghal a szvem
minden gyermekrt, nem rhetem el mindet.
M: Csak akkor vagy hzas s anya, ha frfi-n
tudatossgod van. Amikor nem tartod magad a
testtel azonosnak, akkor a test csaldi lete, legyen
az brmilyen intenzv s rdekes, csak az egyetlen
valsg, a tudat fnynek az elme kpernyjre
vetl jtknak ltszik.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: Why do you insist on awareness as the only real? K: Mirt hangslyozod, hogy a tudatossg az
Is not the object of awareness as real, while it lasts? egyetlen valsg? Nem ugyangy valsgos a tudat
valamely objektuma, mg fennmarad?
M: But it does not last. Momentary reality is
secondary; it depends on the timeless.
Q: Do you mean continuous, or permanent?
M: There can be no continuity in existence.
Continuity implies identity in past, present and
future. No such identity is possible, for the very
means of identification fluctuate and change.
Continuity, permanency, these are illusions created
by memory, mere mental projections of a pattern
where no pattern can be; abandon all ideas of
temporary or permanent, body or mind, man or
women; what remains? What is the state of your
mind when all separation is given up? I am not
talking of giving up distinctions, for without them
there is no manifestation.
Q: When I do not separate, I am happily at peace.
But somehow I lose my bearings again and again
and begin to seek happiness in outer things. Why is
my inner peace not steady, I cannot understand.
M: Peace, after all, is also a condition of the mind.
Q: Beyond the mind is silence. There is nothing to
be said about it.
M: Yes, all talk about silence is mere noise.
Q: Why do we seek worldly happiness, even after
having tasted ones own natural spontaneous
happiness?
M: When the mind is engaged in serving the body,
happiness is lost. To regain it, it seeks pleasure. The
urge to be happy is right, but the means of securing
it are misleading, unreliable and destructive of true
happiness.
Q: Is pleasure always wrong?
M: The right state and use of the body and the mind
are intensely pleasant. It is the search for pleasure
that is wrong. Do not try to make yourself happy,
rather question your very search for happiness. It is
because you are not happy that you want to be
happy. Find out why you are unhappy. Because you
are not happy you seek happiness in pleasure;
pleasure brings in pain and therefore you call it
worldly; you then long for some other pleasure,
432
M: De nem marad fenn. A pillanatnyi valsg
msodlagos; az idtlentl fgg.
K: Ezen folytonossgot rtesz, vagy llandsgot?
M: A ltezsben nem lehet folytonossg. A
folytonossg mlt-, jelen- s jvbeli azonossgot
jelent. Ilyen nazonossg nem lehetsges, mert az
nazonossg ismertetjelei ingadoznak s
vltoznak. Folytonossg, llandsg, ezek az
emlkezet ltal ltrehozott illzik, egy minta
pusztn mentlis kivettsei, ott, ahol nem lehet
minta; vess el minden mlra vagy llandra, testre
vagy elmre, frfira vagy nre vonatkoz idet; mi
marad? Mi az llapota elmdnek, amikor minden
elklnlst feladtl? Nem a klnbsgek
feladsrl beszlek, mert azok nlkl nincs
megnyilvnuls.
K: Amikor nem vagyok elklnlve, a boldog bke
llapotban vagyok. De valahogy jra s jra
eltvesztem az irnyt, s a boldogsgot elkezdem
kls dolgokban keresni. Hogy mirt nem elg
szilrd a bels bkm, nem rtem.
M: Vgs soron a bke is az elme llapota.
K: Az elmn tl csend van. Ott semmi nincs, amirl
beszlni lehetne.
M: Igen, minden beszd, amely a csendrl szl, zaj
csupn.
K: Mirt keressk mg az ember sajt termszetes
spontn boldogsgnak megzlelse utn is az
evilgi boldogsgot?
M: Amikor az elme elktelezi magt a test
szolglatnak, a boldogsg elvsz. Hogy azt
visszanyerje, rmt keres. A boldogsgra
ksztetettsg rendben van, de bebiztostsnak
szndka flrevezet, megbzhatatlan, s az igaz
boldogsgra nzve rombol hats.
K: Az rm mindig helytelen?
M: A helyes llapot, s a test s elme hasznlata
rendkvl kellemes. Az rm keress, ami helytelen.
Ne trekedj, hogy boldogg tedd magad, inkbb
krdjelezd meg egsz boldogsg keressedet.
Azrt nem vagy boldog, mert boldog akarsz lenni.
Fedezd fel, mirt vagy boldogtalan. Mivel nem vagy
boldog, boldogsgot keresel az rmben; az rm
fjdalomhoz vezet, s emiatt elnevezed azt
evilginak; ezutn kezdesz svrogni ms, fjdalom
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
without pain, which you call divine. In reality,
pleasure is but a respite from pain. Happiness is
both worldly and unworldly, within and beyond all
that happens. Make no distinction, dont separate
the inseparable and do not alienate yourself from
life.
Q: How well I understand you now. Before my stay
at Ramanashram I was tyrannised by conscience,
always sitting in judgement of myself. Now I am
completely relaxed, fully accepting myself as I am.
When I return to the States, I shall take life as it
comes, as Bhagavans grace, and enjoy the bitter
along with the sweet. This is one of the things I have
learnt in the Ashram -- to trust Bhagavan. I was not
like this before. I could not trust.
M: Trusting Bhagavan is trusting yourself. Be aware
that whatever happens, happens to you, by you,
through you, that you are the creator, enjoyer and
destroyer of all you perceive and you will not be
afraid. Unafraid, you will not be unhappy, nor will
you seek happiness.
In the mirror of your mind all kinds of pictures appear
and disappear. Knowing that they are entirely your
own creations, watch them silently come and go, be
alert, but not perturbed. This attitude of silent
observation is the very foundation of Yoga. You see
the picture, but you are not the picture.
Q: I find that the thought of death frightens me
because I do not want to be reborn. I know that none
compels, yet the pressure of unsatisfied desires is
overwhelming and I may not be able to resist.
M: The question of resistance does not arise. What
is born and reborn is not you. Let it happen, watch it
happen.
Q: Why then be at all concerned?
M: But you are concerned. And you will be
concerned as long as the picture clashes with your
own sense of truth, love and beauty. The desire for
harmony and peace is ineradicable. But once it is
fulfilled, the concern ceases and physical life
becomes effortless and below the level of attention.
Then, even in the body you are not born. To be
embodied or bodyless is the same to you. You reach
a point when nothing can happen to you. Without
body, you cannot be killed; without possessions you
cannot be robbed; without mind, you cannot be
deceived. There is no point where a desire or fear
can hook on. As long as no change can happen to
you, what else matters?
433
nlkli rmk utn, amelyeket elnevezel isteninek.
Valjban az rm csupn haladk a fjdalomtl. A
boldogsg mind vilgi, mind nem vilgi, a
trtnseken belli s tli. Ne tgy
megklnbztetst, ne vlaszd el, ami nem
elvlaszthat, s ne idegentsd el nmagad az
lettl.
K: Most micsoda jl megrtelek. Ramanashrambeli
ltogatsom eltt a lelkiismeret zsarnokoskodott
felettem, llandan eltltem nmagam. Most
teljesen laza vagyok, teljesen elfogadva nmagam,
ahogy vagyok. Mikor visszatrek az llamokba, gy
fogom venni az letet, ahogy az jn, Bhagavn
kegyelmbl, s a kesert egytt fogom lvezni az
dessel. Ez az egyik dolog, amit az Ashramban
megtanultam hinni Bhagavnban. Nem ilyen
voltam eltte. Nem tudtam hinni.
M: Bhagavnban hinni azt jelenti, nmagadban
hinni. Tudd, hogy brmi trtnjk neked, veled,
ltalad, hogy te vagy a teremtje, lvezje s
puszttja mindennek, amit szlelsz, s akkor nem
fogsz flni. Flelem nlkl nem leszel boldogtalan,
s boldogsgot sem fogsz keresni.
Elmd tkrben mindenfle kpek jelennek meg, s
tnnek el. Tudvn, hogy azok teljesen a te sajt
teremtmnyeid, figyeld ket csendesen, ahogy
jnnek-mennek, lgy ber, de ne izgatott. A csendes
megfigyelsnek ez az attitdje a Yoga igazi alapja.
Ltod a kpet, de nem te vagy a kp.
K: gy gondolom, hogy a hall gondolatai azrt
rmisztek szmomra, mert nem akarok jra
szletni. Tudom, hogy semmi nem knyszert,
mgis, a kielgtetlen vgyak nyomsa
megsemmist erej, s lehet, hogy nem leszek
kpes ellenllni.
M: Sz sincs ellenllsrl. Ami megszletett, s
jraszletett, az nem te vagy. Engedd megtrtnni,
figyeld a trtnst.
K: Minek akkor foglalkozni vele egyltaln?
M: De ht te foglalkozol vele. s egsz addig
foglalkozni fogsz vele, amg a kp ellentmondsba
nem kerl igazsg-, szeretet- s szprzkeddel. A
harmnia s bke irnti vgy mlyen gykerezik. De
beteljeslsvel az rdeklds megsznik, a testi
let passzvv vlik, s a figyelem szintje al merl.
Azutn, habr mg testben vagy, nem szletett
vagy. Testtel, vagy testetlenl, egyre megy
szmodra. Elrsz egy pontra, amikor semmi nem
trtnhet veled. Test nlkl nem vagy meglhet;
vagyon nlkl nem vagy kifoszthat; elme nlkl
nem tvedhetsz. Nincs olyan pont, amibe a vgy,
vagy a flelem belekapaszkodhat. Amg nem
trtnhet veled vltozs, mi egyb szmt?
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: Somehow I do not like the idea of dying.
M: It is because you are so young. The more you
know yourself the less you are afraid. Of course, the
agony of dying is never pleasant to look at, but the
dying man is rarely conscious.
Q: Does he return to consciousness?
M: It is very much like sleep. For a time the person
is out of focus and then it returns.
Q: The same person?
M: The person, being a creature of circumstances, M: A szemly, lvn a krlmnyek teremtmnye,
necessarily changes along with them, like the flame szksgszeren vele egytt vltozik, a lnghoz
that changes with the fuel. Only the process goes on hasonlan, amely egytt vltozik a tzelanyaggal.
and on, creating time and space.
Q: Well, God will look after me. I can leave
everything to Him.
M: Even faith in God is only a stage on the way.
Ultimately you abandon all, for you come to
something so simple that there are no words to
express it.
Q: I am just beginning. At the start I had no faith, no
trust; I was afraid to let things happen. The world
seemed to be a very dangerous and inimical place.
Now, at least I can talk of trusting the Guru or God.
Let me grow. Dont drive me on. Let me proceed at
my own pace.
M: By all means proceed. But you dont. You are still
stuck in the ideas of man and women, old and
young, life and death. Go on, go beyond. A thing
recognised is a thing transcended.
Q: Sir, wherever I go people take it to be their duty
to find faults with me and goad me on. I am fed up
with this spiritual fortune making. What is wrong with
my present that it should be sacrificed to a future,
however glorious? You say reality is in the now. I
want it. I do not want to be eternally anxious about
my stature and its future. I do not want to chase the
more and the better. Let me love what I have.
M: You are quite right; do it. Only be honest -- just
love what you love -- dont strive and strain.
Q: This is what I call surrender to the Guru.
M: Why exteriorise? Surrender to your own self, of
which everything is an expression.
434
K: Valahogy nem szeretem a hall idejt.
M: Azrt, mert oly fiatal vagy. Minl jobban ismered
nmagad, annl kevsb flsz. Egy haldokol
halltusjt ltni, termszetesen, sosem kellemes,
de a haldokl ember ritkn tudatos.
K: Vissza fog trni a tudatossghoz?
M: Ez nagyon hasonlt az alvshoz. A szemly egy
idre kikerl a fkuszbl, majd visszatr.
K: Ugyanaz a szemly?
K: Nos, Isten gondoskodni fog rlam. n mindenben
r hagyatkozom.
M: Mg Istenhited is csak egy lloms az utadon.
Vgl mindennel felhagysz, mert valami oly
egyszerv vlsz, hogy azt szavakkal nem lehet
kifejezni.
K: Mg csak az elejn vagyok. Kezdetben nem volt
se hitem, se bizalmam; fltem hagyni megtrtnni a
dolgokat. A vilg nagyon veszlyes, s ellensges
helynek ltszott. Most legalbb el tudom mondani,
hogy hiszek a Guruban, vagy Istenben. Hadd
fejldjek. Ne srgess. Hadd haladjak a magam
tempjban.
M: Persze, haladj csak. De nem fogsz. Bele fogsz
csak ragadni a frfi s n, reg s fiatal, let s hall
ideiba. Menj tovbb, haladd meg. A felismert dolog
meghaladott dolog.
K: Uram, brmerre jrok, mindenki ktelessgnek
rzi, hogy kritizljon, s sztkljen engem. Torkig
vagyok ezzel a spiritulis sorscsinlssal. Mi baj a
jelenemmel, hogy fel kell azt ldoznom a jvnek,
legyen az brmilyen dicssges? Te azt mondod,
hogy a valsg most van. n azt akarom. Nem
akarok rksen szellemi kpessgeim, s annak
jvje miatt nyugtalankodni. Nem akarok tbbre s
jobbra trni. Hadd szeressem, amim van.
M: Teljesen igazad van; csinld. Csak lgy
becsletes csak szeresd, amit szeretsz ne kzdj,
ne erlkdj.
K: Ezt nevezem n a Gurunak val nmegadsnak.
M: Mirt vettesz kifel? Add meg magad sajt
nednek, amely szmra minden az
megnyilvnulsa.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
91. Pleasure and Happiness
Questioner: A friend of mine, a young man about
twenty-five, was told that he is suffering from an
incurable heart disease. He wrote to me that instead
of slow death he preferred suicide. I replied to him
that a disease incurable by Western medicine may
be cured in some other way. There are yogic powers
that can bring almost instantaneous changes in the
human body. Effects of repeated fasting also verge
on the miraculous. I wrote to him not to be in a hurry
to die; rather to give a trial to other approaches.
There is a Yogi living not far from Bombay who
possesses some miraculous powers. He has
specialised in the control of the vital forces
governing the body. I met some of his disciples and
sent through to the Yogi my friends letter and photo.
Let us see what happens.
Maharaj: Yes, miracles often take place. But there
must be the will to live. Without it the miracles will
not happen.
Q: Can such a desire be instilled?
M: Superficial desire, yes. But it will wear out.
Fundamentally, nobody can compel another to live.
Besides, there were cultures in which suicide had its
acknowledged and respected place.
Q: Is it not obligatory to live out ones natural span of K: Nem ktelez az embernek vgig lnie
life?
M: Natural -- spontaneously -- easy -- yes. But
disease and suffering are not natural. There is noble
virtue in unshakable endurance of whatever comes,
but there is also dignity in the refusal of meaningless
torture and humiliation.
Q: I was given a book written by a siddha. He
describes in it many of his strange, even amazing
experiences. According to him the way of a true
sadhaka ends with his meeting his Guru and
surrendering to him body, mind and heart.
Henceforth the Guru takes over and becomes
responsible for even the least event in the disciples
life, until the two become one. One may call it
realisation through identification. The disciple is
taken over by a power he cannot control, nor resist,
and feels as helpless as a leaf in the storm. The only
thing that keeps him safe from madness and death
is his faith in the love and power of his Guru.
435
91. rm s boldogsg
Krdez: Egyik bartom, egy huszont v krli
fiatalember azt mondta, gygythatatlan
szvbetegsgben szenved. Azt rta nekem, hogy a
lass hall helyett az ngyilkossgot rszesti
elnyben. Azt vlaszoltam neki, hogy a nyugati
medicina ltal nem gygythat betegsg lehet, hogy
meggygythat valamilyen ms mdon. Bizonyos
jgikus erk majdnem azonnali vltozst tudnak
vgbevinni az emberi testben. Az ismtelt bjtkkel
elrhet hats csodval hatros. Azt rtam neki, ne
srgesse a hallt; inkbb prblkozzon ms
megkzeltsekkel is.
Van egy Bombaytl nem messze l Yogi, aki
csodlatos kpessgekkel br. A testet irnyt
leterk irnytsra specializlta magt.
Tallkoztam nhny tantvnyval, s elkldtem
ltaluk a Yoginak bartom levelt s fotjt.
Megltjuk, mi trtnik.
Maharaj: Igen, csodk gyakran trtnnek. De
szksg van az lni akarsra. A nlkl a csodk
nem trtnnek meg.
K: Lehet sugallni ilyen vgyat?
M: Felsznes vgyat, igen. De az ilyen ki fog merlni.
Alapjban vve, senki nem knyszertheti lni a
msikat. Egybknt, voltak kultrk, amelyekben az
ngyilkossgnak elismertsge, s elismert helye
volt.
termszetes lettartamt?
M: Termszetesen kls knyszer nlkl
knnyen igen. De a betegsg s szenveds nem
termszetesek. A brmit elvisel rendthetetlen
kitarts nemes erny, de az rtelmetlen knzs s
megalzs visszautastsban is mltsg van.
K: Kaptam egy siddha ltal rt knyvet. Sok klns,
st hihetetlen tapasztalatt rja le benne. Szerinte az
igazi sadhaka tja Gurujval val tallkozssal, s
testnek, elmjnek s szvnek szmra val
tadsval r vget. Attl fogva a Guru vllalja
magra, s vlik felelss a tantvny letnek mg
a legkisebb esemnyrt is, mgnem a kett eggy
vlik. Ezt nazonosuls rvn trtn
megvalsulsnak nevezhetjk. A tantvnyt tveszi
egy hatalom, amelyet sem kontrolllni, sem
visszautastani nem tud, s olyan gymoltalannak
rzi magt, mint a vihar sodorta levl. Az egyetlen
dolog, ami megvja t az rlettl, s a halltl,
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
M: Every teacher teaches according to his own
experience. Experience is shaped by belief and
belief is shaped by experience. Even the Guru is
shaped by the disciple to his own image. It is the
disciple that makes the Guru great. Once the Guru is
seen to be the agent of a liberating power, which
works both from within and without, whole-hearted
surrender becomes natural and easy. Just as a man
gripped by pain puts himself completely in the hands
of a surgeon, so does the disciple entrust himself
without reservation to his Guru. It is quite natural to
seek help when its need is felt acutely. But, however
powerful the Guru may be, he should not impose his
will on the disciple. On the other hand, a disciple that
distrusts and hesitates is bound to remain unfulfilled
for no fault of his Guru.
Q: What happens then?
M: Life teaches, where all else fails. But the lessons
of life take a long time to come. Much delay and
trouble is saved by trusting and obeying. But such
trust comes only when indifference and restlessness
give place to clarity and peace. A man who keeps
himself in low esteem, will not be able to trust
himself, nor anybody else. Therefore, in the
beginning the teacher tries his best to reassure the
disciple as to his high origin, noble nature and
glorious destiny. He relates to him the experiences
of some saints as well as his own, instilling
confidence in himself and in his infinite possibilities.
When self-confidence and trust in the teacher come
together, rapid and far-going changes in the
disciples character and life can take place.
Q: I may not want to change. My life is good enough K: n nem szeretnk vltozni. Az letem elg j
as it is. gy, ahogy van.
M: You say so because you have not seen how
painful is the life you live. You are like a child
sleeping with a lollypop in its mouth. You may feel
happy for a moment by being totally self-centred, but
it is enough to have a good look at human faces to
perceive the universality of suffering. Even your own
happiness is so vulnerable and short-lived, at the
mercy of a bank-crash, or a stomach ulcer. It is just
a moment of respite, a mere gap between two
sorrows. Real happiness is not vulnerable, because
it does not depend on circumstances.
Q: Are you talking from your own experience? Are
you too unhappy?
436
szeretetbe vetett hite, s Gurujnak hatalma.
M: Minden tant a sajt tapasztalata szerint tant. A
tapasztalatot alaktja a hit, s a hitet alaktja a
tapasztalat. Mg a Guru is alaktsra kerl a
tantvny ltal, annak sajt kpre. A tantvny az,
ami a Gurut naggy teszi. Amint a Gurut a
megszabadt er kzvettjnek ltjuk, amely
bellrl, s kvlrl egyarnt dolgozik, az szinte
ntads termszetess, s knnyv vlik. Ahogy
egy fjdalom gytrte ember adja t magt teljesen
a sebsz kezbe, gy bzza r a tantvny magt
fenntarts nlkl a Gurujra. Teljesen termszetes
segtsget keresni, amikor annak szksge knzv
vlik. De lehet a Guru brmennyire hatalmas, nem
tudja akaratt rerltetni a tantvnyra. Msfell a
tantvny, aki nem hisz s ttovzik, a meg nem
valsultnak maradshoz kttt, ami nem Gurujnak
a hibja.
K: Mi trtnik azutn?
M: Az let tant, ahol minden ms meghisul. De az
let lecki sokra jnnek. Sok kslekeds s
nehzsg megtakarthat bizalom s
engedelmessg rvn. De ilyen bizalom csak akkor
alakul ki, amikor a nemtrdmsg s a
nyugtalansg utat engednek a vilgossgnak s a
bknek. Akinek alacsony az nbecslse, nem lesz
kpes bzni sem nmagban, sem senki msban.
Emiatt a tant kezdetben mindent megksrel, hogy
jra feltltse nbizalommal a tantvnyt, az
magasztos eredetvel, nemes termszetvel s
dics sorsval kapcsolatban. Utal bizonyos szentek,
valamint sajt tapasztalataira, bizalmat teremtve
ezzel nmagval, s az vgtelen lehetsgeivel
kapcsolatosan. Amikor az nbizalom, s a tant
irnti bizalom sszetallkoznak, gyors, s messze
hat vltozsok kvetkeznek be a tantvny
jellemben, s letben.
M: Azrt beszlsz gy, mert mg nem lttad, milyen
fjdalmas az let, amit lsz. Olyan vagy, mint egy
alv gyermek, nyalkval a szjban. rezheted
magadat boldognak egy pillanatra, lvn teljesen n
kzpont, de elg, ha jl megnzed az emberi
arcokat, hogy rzkeld a szenveds
egyetemessgt. Mg sajt boldogsgod is oly
sebezhet s muland, egy banki csd, vagy egy
gyomorfekly irgalmban. Csak egy pillanatnyi
pihens, egy hzag csupn kt szomorsg kztt.
A valdi boldogsg sebezhetetlen, mert fggetlen a
krlmnyektl.
K: Sajt tapasztalatodbl beszlsz? Te is
boldogtalan vagy?
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
M: I have no personal problems. But the world is full M: Nekem nincsenek szemlyes problmim. De a
of living beings whose lives are squeezed between vilg tele van olyan llnyekkel, akiknek az lete
fear and craving. They are like cattle driven to the flelem s knz vgyakozs kz prseldtt.
slaughter house, jumping and frisking, carefree and Olyanok, akr a vghdra hajtott jszg,
happy, yet dead and skinned within an hour. ugrndoznak s szkdcselnek, gondtalanok s
boldogok, mgis meglik, s megnyzzk ket egy
You say you are happy. Are you really happy, or are rn bell.
you merely trying to convince yourself. Look at
yourself fearlessly and you will at once realise that Azt mondod, boldog vagy. Valban boldog vagy,
your happiness depends on conditions and vagy csupn igyekszel meggyzni magad rla?
circumstances, hence it is momentary, not real. Real Nzz nmagadba btran, s azonnal fel fogod
happiness flows from within. ismerni, hogy boldogsgod felttelektl, s
krlmnyektl fgg, ennl fogva pillanatnyi, nem
vals. A valdi boldogsg bellrl ered.

Q: Of what use is your happiness to me? It does not K: Mi haszna szmomra a te boldogsgodnak? Az
make me happy. nem tesz engem boldogg.

M: You can have the whole of it and more for the M: Tid lehet az egsz, s mg tbb, pusztn csak
mere asking. But you do not ask; you dont seem to krned kell. De nem kred; gy ltszik, nem akarod.
want.

Q: Why do you say so? I do want to be happy. K: Mirt beszlsz gy? n boldog akarok lenni.

M: You are quite satisfied with pleasures. There is M: Teljesen megelgszel az rmkkel. Nincs hely a
no place for happiness. Empty your cup and clean it. boldogsg szmra. rtsd ki poharad, s tiszttsd
It cannot be filled otherwise. Others can give you meg. Nem tlthet tele mskppen. Msok tudnak
pleasure, but never happiness. neked rmet adni, de boldogsgot soha.

Q: A chain of pleasurable events is good enough. K: rmteli esemnyek egy sorozata elg j.

M: Soon it ends in pain, if not in disaster. What is M: Hamarosan fjdalom a vge, ha nem katasztrfa.
Yoga after all, but seeking lasting happiness within? Mi a Yoga vgl is, ha nem a bels, lland
boldogsg keresse?

Q: You can speak only for the East. In the West the K: Te csak a Kelet szempontjbl tudsz beszlni.
conditions are different and what you say does not Nyugaton msok a felttelek, s amirl beszlsz, az
apply. ott nem rvnyes.

M: There is no East and West in sorrow and fear.
The problem is universal -- suffering and the ending
of suffering. The cause of suffering is dependence
and independence is the remedy. Yoga is the
science and the art of self-liberation through self-
understanding.
M: A szomorsgban s flelemben nincs Kelet s
Nyugat. A problma egyetemes a szenveds, s a
szenveds befejezse. A szenveds oka a
fggsg, s a gygyszer a fggetlensg. A Yoga
az nmegrtsen keresztl trtn
nmegszabadts tudomnya, s mvszete.

Q: I do not think I am fit for Yoga. K: Nem hiszem, hogy kszen llnk a Yogra.

M: What else are you fit for? All your going and
coming, seeking pleasure, loving and hating -- all
this shows that you struggle against limitations, self-
imposed or accepted. In your ignorance you make
mistakes and cause pain to yourself and others, but
the urge is there and shall not be denied. The same
urge that seeks birth, happiness and death shall
seek understanding and liberation. It is like a spark
of fire in a cargo of cotton. You may not know about
it, but sooner or later the ship will burst in flames.
Liberation is a natural process and in the long run,
inevitable. But it is within your power to bring it into
M: Mi msra llnl kszen? Egsz jvs-mensed,
rm, szeretet s gyllet keressed minden azt
mutatja, hogy kzdesz a korltozsok ellen, akr rd
terheltek, akr elfogadottak. Tudatlansgod miatt
hibkat kvetsz el, s fjdalmat okozol magadnak s
msoknak, de a ksztets benned van, nem
tagadhatod. Ugyanaz a megszletst, boldogsgot,
s hallt keres ksztets fogja keresni a megrtst
s a megszabadulst. Hasonlan, mint mikor egy
rakomny gyapjba szikra pattan. Lehet, hogy nem
tudsz rla, de a haj elbb-utbb lngokban fog
llni. A megszabaduls termszetes folyamat, s

437
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
the now.
Q: Then why are so few liberated people in the
world?
M: In a forest only some of the trees are in full bloom M: Adott pillanatban az erdben is csak nhny fa
at a given moment, yet every one will have its turn.
Sooner or later your physical and mental resources
will come to an end. What will you do then?
Despair? All right, despair. You will get tired of
despairing and begin to question. At that moment
you will be fit for conscious Yoga.
Q: I find all this seeking and brooding most
unnatural.
M: Yours is the naturalness of a born cripple. You
may be unaware but it does not make you normal.
What it means to be natural or normal you do not
know, nor do you know that you do not know.
At present you are drifting and therefore in danger,
for to a drifter any moment anything may happen. It
would be better to wake up and see your situation.
That you are -- you know. What you are -- you don't
know. Find out what you are.
Q: Why is there so much suffering in the world?
M: Selfishness is the cause of suffering. There is no
other cause.
Q: I understood that suffering is inherent in
limitation.
M: Differences and distinctions are not the causes of
sorrow. Unity in diversity is natural and good. It is
only with separateness and self-seeking that real
suffering appears in the world.
92. Go Beyond the l-am-the-body Idea
Questioner: We are like animals, running about in
vain pursuits and there seems to be no end to it. Is
there a way out?
Maharaj: Many ways will be offered to you which will
but take you round and bring you back to your
starting point. First realise that your problem exists
in your waking state only, that however painful it is,
you are able to forget it altogether when you go to
sleep. When you are awake you are conscious;
438
hossz tvon elkerlhetetlen. De hatalmadban ll a
mostba hozni azt.
K: Akkor mirt van oly kevs megszabadult ember a
vilgon?
van virgzsa teljben, mgis mindegyik sorra kerl.
A fizikai s mentlis erforrsok elbb-utbb
vgkhz rnek. Mit fogsz majd akkor csinlni?
Ktsgbeesel? Rendben, ess ktsgbe. Ki fogsz
fradni a ktsgbeesstl, s el fogsz kezdeni
krdezni. Abban a pillanatban alkalmas kszen
fogsz llni a Yoga tudatossgra.
K: gy rzem, ez az egsz keress s merengs
nagyon termszetellenes.
M: A te termszetessged szletett nyomork.
Lehetsz te naiv, de az nem tesz normliss. Nem
tudod, mit jelent termszetesnek, vagy normlisnak
lenni, s azt sem tudod, hogy nem tudod.
Jelenleg sodrdsz, s ezrt veszlyben vagy, mert a
sodrdval brmely pillanatban brmi megtrtnhet.
Jobb lenne felbredni, s szembenzni a helyzettel.
Azt, hogy vagy tudod. Hogy mi vagy nem tudod.
Fedezd fel, mi vagy.
K: Mirt oly sok a szenveds a vilgban?
M: Az nzs a szenveds oka. Nincsen ms ok.
K: Megrtettem, hogy a szenveds egytt jr a
korltozssal.
M: Nem a klnbsgek s megklnbztetsek a
szomorsg okai. Az egysg a sokflesgben
termszetes, s j. Csak az elklnls s az nzs
az, ami miatt a valdi szenveds a vilgban
megjelenik.
92. Haladd meg az n-vagyok-a-test
idet
Krdez: llatokknt szaladglunk, cltalanul
keresglnk, s nem ltszik a vge. Van belle kit?
Maharaj: Sok olyan utat knlnak fel szmodra,
amelyeken csak krbe-krbe jrsz, s visszakerlsz
a kezdpontodba. Elszr ismerd fel, hogy a
problmd csak brenlti llapotodban ltezik, hogy
akrmilyen fjdalmas, kpes vagy azt teljesen
elfelejteni, amikor elalszol. Amikor bren vagy,
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
when you are asleep, you are only alive.
Consciousness and life -- both you may call God;
but you are beyond both, beyond God, beyond being
and not-being. What prevents you from knowing
yourself as all and beyond all, is the mind based on
memory. It has power over you as long as you trust
it; don't struggle with it; just disregard it. Deprived of
attention, it will slow down and reveal the
mechanism of its working. Once you know its nature
and purpose, you will not allow it to create imaginary
problems.
Q: Surely, not all problems are imaginary. There are K: Bizonyra nem minden problma elkpzelt.
real problems. Vannak valdi problmk.
M: What problems can there be which the mind did
not create? Life and death do not create problems;
pains and pleasures come and go, experienced and
forgotten. It is memory and anticipation that create
problems of attainment or avoidance, coloured by
like and dislike. Truth and love are man's real nature
and mind and heart are the means of its expression.
Q: How to bring the mind under control? And the
heart, which does not know what it wants?
M: They cannot work in darkness. They need the
light of pure awareness to function rightly. All effort
at control will merely subject them to the dictates of
memory. Memory is a good servant, but a bad
master. It effectively prevents discovery. There is no
place for effort in reality. It is selfishness, due to a
self-identification with the body, that is the main
problem and the cause of all other problems. And
selfishness cannot be removed by effort, only by
clear insight into its causes and effects. Effort is a
sign of conflict between incompatible desires. They
should be seen as they are -- then only they
dissolve.
Q: And what remains?
M: That which cannot change, remains. The great
peace, the deep silence, the hidden beauty of reality
remain. While it can not be conveyed through words,
it is waiting for you to experience for yourself.
Q: Must not one be fit and eligible for realisation?
Our nature is animal to the core. Unless it is
conquered, how can we hope for reality to dawn?
M: Leave the animal alone. Let it be. Just remember
what you are. Use every incident of the day to
remind you that without you as the witness there
would be neither animal nor God. Understand that
439
tudatos vagy; amikor alszol, akkor csak l.
Tudatossg, s let mindkettt nevezheted
Istennek; de te mindkettn tl vagy, tl Istenen, tl
lten, s nemlten. Ami meggtol abban, hogy
nmagadat mindenknt, s mindenen tliknt
ismerd, az az emlkezet alap elme. Hatalma van
fltted, amg hiszel benne; ne harcolj vele; csupn
hagyd figyelmen kvl. Ha megfosztod figyelmedtl
lelassul, s felfedi mkdsnek mechanizmust.
Amint megismerted termszett, s cljt, nem
fogod hagyni, hogy kpzelt problmkat teremtsen.
M: Milyen problmk lehetnek, amiket nem elme
teremt? let s hall nem teremtenek problmkat;
a fjdalmak s rmk jnnek s mennek, tled,
majd elfelejted ket. Az emlkezet s az elvrs az,
ami ltrehozza a megszerzs vagy elkerls
rokonszenvekkel s ellenszenvekkel sznezett
problmit. Az igazsg s a szeretet az ember
valdi termszete, s az elme s a szv azok
kifejezsnek eszkze.
K: Hogyan kell az elmt ellenrzs al vonni? s a
szvet, amely nem tudja, mit akar?
M: k nem mkdhetnek sttben. Szksges
szmukra a tiszta tudat fnye, hogy helyesen
funkcionljanak. Minden ellenrzsre val trekvs
csak az emlkezet parancsai al rendeli ket. Az
emlkezet j szolga, de rossz mester. Hatkonyan
gtolja a megoldst. Nincs helye trekvsnek a
valsgban. Az nem ms, mint nzs,
ksznheten a testtel val nazonostsnak, ami a
f problma, s minden ms problma oka. s az
nzs nem tvolthat el erfesztssel, csak
okainak s hatsainak tiszta megltsval. Az
erkifejts az sszeegyeztethetetlen vgyak kztti
konfliktus jele. gy kell ket ltni, ahogyan vannak
csak akkor fognak szertefoszlani.
K: s mi marad?
M: Az, ami nem tud vltozni, megmarad. A
magasztos bke, a mly csend, a valsg rejtett
szpsge maradnak. Jllehet szavak rvn nem
kzvetthet, rd vr, hogy magad tapasztald meg.
K: Nem kell az embernek kszen llnia s
alkalmasnak lennie a megvalsulsra?
Termszetnk a zig-vrig llati jelleg. Hacsak le
nem gyzzk, hogyan remlhetnnk, hogy
felvirradjon a valsg?
M: Hagyd az llatot bkn. Hagyd lenni. Csak
emlkezz, mi vagy. Hasznld a nap minden vratlan
esemnyt, hogy emlkeztessen, hogy nlkled,
mint tan nlkl mg llat, s Isten sem lenne. rtsd
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
you are both, the essence and the substance of all
there is. And remain firm in your understanding.
Q: Is understanding enough? Don't I need more
tangible proofs?
M: It is your understanding that will decide about the
validity of proofs. But what more tangible proof do
you need than your own existence? Wherever you
go you find yourself. However far you reach out in
time, you are there.
Q: Obviously, I am not all-pervading and eternal. I
am only here and now.
M: Good enough. The 'here' is everywhere and the
now -- always. Go beyond the 'I-am-the-body' idea
and you will find that space and time are in you and
not you in space and time. Once you have
understood this, the main obstacle to realisation is
removed.
Q: What is the realisation which is beyond
understanding?
M: Imagine a dense forest full of tigers and you in a
strong steel cage. Knowing that you are well
protected by the cage, you watch the tigers
fearlessly. Next you find the tigers in the cage and
yourself roaming about in the jungle. Last -- the cage
disappears and you ride the tigers.
Q: I attended one of the group meditation sessions,
held recently in Bombay, and witnessed the frenzy
and self-abandon of the participants. Why do people
go for such things?
M: These are all inventions of a restless mind
pampering to people in search of sensations. Some
of them help the unconscious to disgorge
suppressed memories and longings and to that
extent they provide relief. But ultimately they leave
the practitioner where he was -- or worse.
Q: I have read recently a book by a Yogi on his
experiences in meditation. It is full of visions and
sounds, colours and melodies; quite a display and a
most gorgeous entertainment. In the end they all
faded out and only the feeling of utter fearlessness
remained. No wonder -- a man who passed through
all these experiences unscathed need not be afraid
of anything. Yet I was wondering of what use is such
book to me?
M: Of no use, probably, since it does not attract you. M: Valsznleg semmi haszna, mivel az nem
440
meg, hogy te vagy minden, lnyege s
szubsztancija mindennek, ami van. s maradj
szilrdan megrtsedben.
K: A megrts elegend? Nem kellenek sokkal
kzzelfoghatbb bizonytkok?
M: A megrtsed az, ami dnteni fog a bizonytkok
rvnyessgrl. De milyen kzzelfoghatbb
bizonytkra van szksged a sajt ltezsednl?
Akrhov msz, nmagadat tallod. Akrmilyen
messzire eljutsz idben, te vagy ott.
K: Nyilvnval, hogy nem vagyok mindent betlt,
s rkkval. Csak itt, s most vagyok.
M: ppen megfelel. Az itt az mindenhol, s a
most, az mindig. Haladd meg az n-vagyok-a-test
idet, s gy felfedezed, hogy a tr s id benned
vannak, s nem te vagy a trben s idben. Amint
ezt megrtetted, a megvalsuls f akadlya
elhrult.
K: Mifle megvalsuls az, amely meghaladja a
megrtst?
M: Kpzelj el egy sr erdt, tele tigrisekkel, s
magadat egy ers acl ketrecben. Tudvn, hogy a
ketrec jl vdelmet nyjt szmodra, flelem nlkl
nzel a tigrisekre. Majd felfedezed, hogy a tigrisek
vannak a ketrecben, s te magad a dzsungelben
kszlsz. Vgl a ketrec eltnik, s te uralkodsz a
tigriseken.
K: Rszt vettem egy csoportos meditcis
tanfolyamon, amit nemrg tartottak Bombayben, s
tanja voltam, hogyan rjngtek s vetkztek ki
magukbl a rszvevk. Mirt tesznek az embereket
ilyen dolgokat?
M: Ezek mind a nyugtalan elme koholmnya, amely
a szenzcikat keres emberek kedvben jr.
Nhnyuknak segt, hogy a tudattalan kihnyja a
visszafojtott emlkeket, s vgyakat, s bizonyos
mrtkig enyhlst talljanak. De vgs soron ott
hagyjk a gyakorlt ahol az volt vagy mg
rosszabb helyen.
K: Nemrg olvastam egy Yogi meditcis
tapasztalatairl szl knyvet. Tele van vzikkal,
hangokkal, sznekkel s meldikkal; egsz
rzkletes lers, s a legnagyszerbb szrakozs.
A vgn mind elhalvnyul, s csak a legteljesebb
flelemnlklisg rzse marad. Nem csoda az,
aki mindezeken a tapasztalatokon srtetlenl
keresztlment, nem szabad, hogy fljen semmitl.
Mgis, szeretnm tudni, hogy mi haszna van az
ilyen knyveknek szmomra?
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Others may be impressed. People differ. But all are gyakorol rd vonzert. Msokra hatssal lehet. Az
faced with the fact of their own existence. 'I am' is emberek klnbzk. De mindenki szembesl sajt
the ultimate fact; 'Who am l?' is the ultimate question ltezsnek a tnyvel. Az n vagyok a vgs
to which everybody must find an answer. tny; a ki vagyok n? a vgs krds, amelyre
mindenkinek meg kell tallnia a vlaszt.

Q: The same answer? K: Ugyanaz a vlasz?

M: The same in essence, varied in expression. M: Lnyegben ugyanaz, megnyilvnulsban

sokfle.
Each seeker accepts, or invents, a method which
suits him, applies it to himself with some Minden keres tvesz, vagy kitall egy szmra
earnestness and effort, obtains results according to alkalmas mdszert, alkalmazza azt magra
his temperament and expectations, casts them into valamilyen komolysggal s erkifejtssel,
the mound of words, builds them into a system, alkatnak s elvrsainak megfelel eredmnyekre
establishes a tradition and begins to admit others jut, szkupacba osztja ket, rendszert pt bellk,
into his 'school of Yoga'. It is all built on memory and tradcit alapt, s elkezd msokat befogadni Yoga
imagination. No such school is valueless, nor iskoljba. Mindez emlkezetre, s kpzeletre pl.
indispensable; in each one can progress up to the Nincs olyan iskola, amely rtktelen, sem olyan,
point, when all desire for progress must be amely nlklzhetetlen lenne; mindegyikben eljuthat
abandoned to make further progress possible. Then az ember addig a pontig, ahol minden haladsra
all schools are given up, all effort ceases; in solitude vonatkoz vgynak el kell maradnia, hogy a tovbbi
and darkness the vast step is made which ends elrehalads lehetv vljk. Azutn minden iskola
ignorance and fear forever. feladsra kerl, minden erfeszts megsznik; a
magnyban, s sttsgben megttelre kerl a
The true teacher, however, will not imprison his hatalmas lps, amely vget vet a tudatlansgnak,
disciple in a prescribed set of ideas, feelings and s a flelemnek rkre.
actions; on the contrary, he will show him patiently
the need to be free from all ideas and set patterns of Az igazi tant azonban nem fogja tantvnyt elre
behaviour, to be vigilant and earnest and go with life lert idek, rzsek s cselekedetek sszessgnek
wherever it takes him, not to enjoy or suffer, but to brtnbe zrni; ellenkezleg, trelmesen meg fogja
understand and learn. neki mutatni, hogy arra van, szksg, hogy
megszabaduljon minden idetl, s viselkedsi
Under the right teacher the disciple learns to learn, minttl, vljon berr, s komolly, s haladjon az
not to remember and obey. Satsang, the company of lettel, brhov vesse is az t, nem az lvezet, vagy
the noble, does not mould, it liberates. Beware of all szenveds, hanem a megrts, s a tanuls miatt.
that makes you dependent. Most of the so-called
'surrenders to the Guru' end in disappointment, if not A megfelel tant alatt a tantvny tanulni tanul,
in tragedy. Fortunately, an earnest seeker will nem pedig emlkezni s engedelmeskedni. A
disentangle himself in time, the wiser for the satsang, a nemes trsasg, nem tforml, szabadd
experience. tesz. vakodj mindentl, ami fggv tesz. A
legtbb gynevezett Gurunak val nfelads-nak
kibrnduls, ha nem tragdia a vge. Szerencsre,
a komoly keres annl hamarabb ki fog szabadulni,
minl blcsebb a tapasztalatra.

Q: Surely, self-surrender has its value. K: Bizonyra az nfeladsnak is meg van az rtke.

M: Self-surrender is the surrender of all self- M: Az nfelads az sszes nvonatkozs feladst

concern. It cannot be done, it happens when you
realise your true nature. Verbal self-surrender, even
when accompanied by feeling, is of little value and
breaks down under stress. At the best it shows an
aspiration, not an actual fact.
jelenti. Az nfeladst nem lehet megcsinlni, meg
fog trtnni, mikor rbredsz valdi termszetedre.
A verblis nfelads, mg ha rzsek ksrik is,
kevs rtkkel br, s stressz hatsra sszeomlik.
Legjobb esetben trekvst mutat, nem fennll
tnyt.

Q: In the Rigveda there is the mention of the adhi K: A Rigvedban emltsre kerl az adhi yoga, az
yoga, the Primordial Yoga, consisting of the s Yoga, amely a pragnnak a Pranval val
marriage of pragna with Prana, which, as I egyeslst jelenti, amelynek a jelentse
understand, means the bringing together of wisdom rtelmezsem szerint a blcsessg s az let

441
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
and life. Would you say it means also the union of
Dharma and Karma, righteousness and action?
M: Yes, provided by righteousness you mean
harmony with one's true nature and by action -- only
unselfish and desireless action.
In adhi yoga life itself is the Guru and the mind -- the
disciple. The mind attends to life, it does not dictate. Az adhi yogban az let maga a Guru, s az elme
Life flows naturally and effortlessly and the mind
removes the obstacles to its even flow.
Q: Is not life by its very nature repetitive? Will not
following life lead to stagnation?
M: By itself life is immensely creative. A seed, in
course of time, becomes a forest. The mind is like a
forester -- protecting and regulating the immense
vital urge of existence.
Q: Seen as the service of life by the mind, the adhi
yoga is a perfect democracy. Everyone is engaged
in living a life to his best capacity and knowledge,
everyone is a disciple of the same Guru.
M: You may say so. It may be so -- potentially. But
unless life is loved and trusted, followed with
eagerness and zest, it would be fanciful to talk of
Yoga, which is a movement in consciousness,
awareness in action.
Q: Once I watched a mountain-stream flowing
between the boulders. At each boulder the
commotion was different, according to the shape
and size of the boulder. Is not every person a mere
commotion over a body, while life is one and
eternal?
M: The commotion and the water are not separate. It
is the disturbance that makes you aware of water.
Consciousness is always of movement, of change.
There can be no such thing as changeless
consciousness. Changelessness wipes out
consciousness immediately. A man deprived of
outer or inner sensations blanks out, or goes beyond
consciousness and unconsciousness into the
birthless and deathless state. Only when spirit and
matter come together consciousness is born.
Q: Are they one or two?
M: It depends on the words you use: they are one,
or two, or three. On investigation three become two
and two become one. Take the simile of face --
mirror -- image. Any two of them presuppose the
442
sszehozsa. Lehet azt mondani, hogy a Dharma s
a Karma, az egyenessg s a cselekvs
egyeslst is jelenti egyttal?
M: Igen, az igazsgnak megfelelen te a harmnit
az ember igaz termszetvel egytt jrnak, s a
cselekvst csupn nzetlen s vgytalan
cselekvsnek tekinted.
a tantvny. Az elme szolglja az letet, nem diktl.
Az let termszetes mdon, s erfeszts nlkl
ramlik, s az elme eltvoltja az egyenletes
ramlst gtl akadlyokat.
K: Az let valdi termszetnl fogva nem ismtld
jelleg? Az let kvetse nem fog stagnlshoz
vezetni?
M: Az let nmagban mrhetetlenl kreatv. Egy
mag, az idk folyamn erdsgg vlik. Az elme
olyan, mint az erdsz vdi, s szablyozza a
ltezs mrhetetlen letad sztnt.
K: Ha az elmt az let szolgljnak ltja, az adhi
yoga egy tkletes demokrcia. Mindenki
elktelezett, hogy az letet legjobb kpessge s
tudsa szerint lje, mindenki ugyanannak a Gurunak
a tantvnya.
M: Mondhatod gy. Lehet gy potencilisan. De
hacsak nem vagy szeretettel s bizalommal az let
irnt, nem lelkesedssel s lvezettel kveted,
klns lenne Yogrl beszlni, amely egy mozgsa
tudatossgban, cselekv tudat.
K: Egyszer egy hegyi patakot figyeltem, amint a
sziklk kztt csrgedezett. A vz mindegyik knl
mskpp rvnylett, a k formjnak s mretnek
megfelelen. Nem lehetsges, hogy minden
szemly egy test keltette rvny csupn, mg az let
egy s rkkval?
M: Az rvny s a vz nem egymstl elvlaszthat
dolgok. Az rvny miatt vagy tudatban a vznek.
Tudatossga mindig a mozgnak, vltoznak van.
Vltozatlannak nem lehet tudatossga. A
vltozatlansgot a tudatossg azonnal megsznteti.
A kls s bels benyomsoktl megfosztott ember
ress vlik, vagyis tllp a tudatossgon s
tudattalansgon, egy szlets s hall nlkli
llapotba. Csak a szellem s az anyag
tallkozsakor szletik tudatossg.
K: Egyek k, vagy kett?
M: Az ltalad hasznlt szavaktl fgg, hogy egyek,
kett, vagy hrom. A kutats sorn a hrom kettv,
a kett eggy vlik. Vegyk az arc tkr kp
hasonlatot. Kzlk brmelyik kett felttelezi a
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
third which unites the two. In sadhana you see the
three as two, until you realise the two as one.
As long as you are engrossed in the world, you are
unable to know yourself: to know yourself, turn away Amg a vilg lekti a figyelmedet, kptelen vagy
your attention from the world and turn it within. megismerni nmagadat: nmagad megismershez
el kell fordtanod figyelmedet a vilgtl, s befel kell
fordtanod.
Q: I cannot destroy the world.
M: There is no need. Just understand that what you
see is not what is. Appearances will dissolve on
investigation and the underlying reality will come to
the surface. You need not burn the house to get out
of it. You just walk out. It is only when you cannot
come and go freely that the house becomes a jail. I
move in and out of consciousness easily and
naturally and therefore to me the world is a home,
not a prison.
Q: But ultimately is there a world, or is there none?
M: What you see is nothing but your self. Call it what
you like, it does not change the fact. Through the
film of destiny your own light depicts pictures on the
screen. You are the viewer, the light, the picture and
the screen. Even the film of destiny (prarabdha) is
self-selected and self-imposed. The spirit is a sport
and enjoys to overcome obstacles. The harder the
task the deeper and wider his self-realisation.
93. Man is not the Doer
Questioner: From the beginning of my life I am
pursued by a sense of incompleteness. From school
to college, to work, to marriage, to affluence, I
imagined that the next thing will surely give me
peace, but there was no peace. This sense of
unfulfillment keeps on growing as years pass by.
Maharaj: As long as there is the body and the sense
of identity with the body, frustration is inevitable.
Only when you know yourself as entirely alien to and
different from the body, will you find respite from the
mixture of fear and craving inseparable from the 'I-
am-the-body' idea. Merely assuaging fears and
satisfying desires will not remove this sense of
emptiness you are trying to escape from; only self-
knowledge can help you. By self-knowledge I mean
full knowledge of what you are not. Such knowledge
is attainable and final; but to the discovery of what
you are there can be no end. The more you
discover, the more there remains to discover.
443
harmadikat, ami egyesti a kettt. A sadhana sorn a
hrmat egszen addig kettnek ltod, amg a kettt
egynek nem ismered fel.
K: Nem tudom megsemmisteni a vilgot.
M: Nincs is r szksg. Csak rtsd meg, hogy amit
ltsz, az nem az, ami van. A ltszatok szerte fognak
foszlani a kutats sorn, s az alatta lv valsg a
felsznre kerl. Ahhoz, hogy kijjj a hzbl, nem kell
azt felgyjtanod. Csupn stlj ki. A hz csak akkor
vlik brtnn, ha nem tudsz szabadon jnni-menni.
n knnyedn, s termszetesen jrok ki-be a
tudatossgban, s ezrt szmomra a vilg otthon,
nem brtn.
K: Vgtre is, ltezik vilg, vagy pedig nem ltezik
semmi?
M: Amit ltsz, az nem ms, mint nmagad. Nevezd,
aminek akarod, az nem vltoztat a tnyen. A sors
filmjn keresztl a te sajt fnyed rajzolja a kpeket
a vszonra. Te vagy a nz, a fny, a kp, s a
vszon. Mg a sors filmjt (prarabdha) is magad
vlasztottad, s nknt vllaltad. A szellem egy
sportol, s lvezi az akadlyok legyzst. Minl
nehezebb a feladat, nmegvalstsa annl
mlyebb s szlesebb.
93. Nem az ember a cselekv
Krdez: Mita lek, azta ldz a befejezetlensg
rzse. Iskoltl egyetemig, munkig, hzassgig,
gazdagsgig gy kpzeltem, hogy a kvetkez
dolog biztos meg adja nekem a bkt, de nem jtt el
a bke. Ez a beteljesletlensg rzs csak
nvekszik, ahogy mlnak az vek.
Maharaj: Amg a test s a testtel val azonossg
rzse fennllnak, a kielgtetlensg rzse
elkerlhetetlen. Csak akkor fogsz nyugalmat tallni
az n-vagyok-a-test idetl elvlaszthatatlan
flelemtl, s kielgthetetlen vgytl, mikor a testtl
teljesen idegennek, s klnbznek fogod ismerni
nmagadat. A flelem lecsillaptsa s a vgyak
kielgtse nmagban nem tvoltja el az ressg
rzst, amitl meneklni prblsz; csak az
nismeret segthet rajtad. nismereten annak teljes
ismerett rtem, hogy mi nem vagy. Az ilyen az
elrhet, s vgs ismeret; de annak felfedezst,
hogy mi vagy, soha nem lehet befejezni. Minl
tbbet felfedezel, annl tbb felfedezend marad.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok

Q: For this we must have different parents and K: Ehhez ms szlkre, s iskolkra van
schools, live in a different society. szksgnk, egy msik trsadalomban kell lnnk.

M: You; cannot change your circumstances, but M: A krlmnyeket nem tudod megvltoztatni, de
your attitudes you can change. You need not be hozzllsodon vltoztathatsz. Nem szabad
attached to the non-essentials. Only the necessary ktdnd a lnyegtelenhez. Csak a szksges dolog
is good. There is peace only in the essential. j. Csak a lnyegesben van bkessg.

Q: It is truth I seek, not peace. K: Igazsgot keresek, nem bkt.

M: You cannot see the true unless you are at peace. M: Nem lthatod meg az igazsgot, hacsak bkben
A quiet mind is essential for right perception, which nem vagy. A csendes elme nem nlklzhet a
again is required for self-realisation. helyes szlelshez, amely viszont az
nmegvalstshoz szksges.

Q: I have so much to do. I just cannot afford to keep K: Olyan sok a tennivalm. Nem engedhetem meg
my mind quiet. magamnak, hogy elmmet csendesen tartsam.

M: It is because of your illusion that you are the M: Ez azrt van, mert az az illzid, hogy te vagy a
doer. In reality things are done to you, not by you. cselekv. A valsgban a dolgok szmodra
trtnnek, nem ltalad.

Q: If I just let things happen, how can I be sure that K: Ha hagyom, hogy a dolgok csak gy trtnjenek,
they will happen my way? Surely I must bend them hogy lehetek biztos benne, hogy azok az n kedvem
to my desire. szerint fognak trtnni? Biztos, hogy vgyaimhoz
kell igaztanom ket.

M: Your desire just happens to you along with its
fulfilment, or non-fulfilment. You can change neither.
You may believe that you exert yourself, strive and
struggle. Again, it all merely happens, including the
fruits of the work. Nothing is by you and for you. All
is in the picture exposed on the cinema screen,
nothing in the light, including what you take yourself
to be, the person. You are the light only.
M: Vgyad csupn megtrtnik szmodra, annak
teljeslsvel, vagy be nem teljeslsvel
egyetemben. Nem tudsz vltoztatni egyiken sem.
Hiheted, hogy te magad fradozol, trekszel s
kzdesz. Ismtlem, minden pusztn megtrtnik,
beleszmtva a munka gymlcseit is. Semmi nem
ltalad, s rted van. Minden a mozi vszonra
vettett kpben van, semmi nem a fnyben,
belertve a szemlyt is, aminek tartod magad. Te
csak a fny vagy.

Q: If I am light only, how did I come to forget it? K: Ha n csak a fny vagyok, mirt felejtettem el?

M: You have not forgotten. It is in the picture on the
screen that you forget and then remember. You
never cease to be a man because you dream to be
a tiger. Similarly you are pure light appearing as a
picture on the screen and also becoming one with it.
M: Nem felejtetted el. A vsznon lv kp az, amit
elfelejtesz, s azutn eszedbe jut. Sose sznsz meg
embernek lenni, csak mert tigrisnek lmodod
magad. Hasonlkppen, te vagy a kpernyn
kpknt megjelen tiszta fny, s a vele val eggy
vls is.

Q: Since all happens, why should I worry? K: Miutn minden trtnik, mirt kellene aggdnom?

M: Exactly. Freedom is freedom from worry. Having
realised that you cannot influence the results, pay no
attention to your desires and fears. Let them come
and go. Don't give them the nourishment of interest
and attention.
M: Pontosan. A szabadsg aggodalomtl val
szabadsg. Felismervn, hogy nem befolysolhatod
az eredmnyeket, ne figyelj vgyaidra s
flelmeidre. Hagyd, hogy megjelenjenek, s
eltnjenek. Ne tplld ket rdekldseddel, s
figyelmeddel.

Q: If I turn my attention from what happens, what am K: Ha figyelmemet elfordtom attl, hogy mi trtnik,
I to live by? akkor mibl ljek meg?

444
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
M: Again it is like asking: 'What shall I do, if I stop
dreaming?' Stop and see. You need not be anxious:
'What next?' There is always the next. Life does not
begin nor end: immovable -- it moves, momentary --
it lasts. Light can not be exhausted even if
innumerable pictures are projected by it. So does life
fill every shape to the brim and return to its source,
when the shape breaks down.
Q: If life is so wonderful, how could ignorance
happen?
M: You want to treat the disease without having
seen the patient. Before you ask about ignorance,
why don't you enquire first, who is the ignorant?
When you say you are ignorant, you do not know
that you have imposed the concept of ignorance
over the actual state of your thoughts and feelings.
Examine them as they occur, give them your full
attention and you will find that there is nothing like
ignorance, only inattention. Give attention to what
worries you, that is all. After all, worry is mental pain
and pain is invariably a call for attention. The
moment you give attention, the call for it ceases and
the question of ignorance dissolves. Instead of
waiting for an answer to your question, find out who
is asking the question and what makes him ask it.
You will soon find that it is the mind, goaded by fear
of pain, that asks the question. And in fear there is
memory and anticipation, past and future. Attention
brings you back to the present, the now, and the
presence in the now is a state ever at hand, but
rarely noticed.
Q: You are reducing sadhana to simple attention.
How is it that other teachers teach complete, difficult van az, hogy ms tantk teljes, fradsgos, s
and time-consuming courses?
M: The Gurus usually teach the sadhanas by which
they themselves have reached their goal, whatever
their goal may be. This is but natural, for their own
sadhana they know intimately. I was taught to give
attention to my sense of 'I am and I found it
supremely effective. Therefore, I can speak of it with
full confidence. But often people come with their
bodies, brain and minds so mishandled, perverted
and weak, that the state of formless attention is
beyond them. In such cases, some simpler token of
earnestness is appropriate. The repetition of a
mantra, or gazing at a picture will prepare their body
and mind for a deeper and more direct search. After
all, it is earnestness that is indispensable, the crucial
factor. Sadhana is only a vessel and it must be filled
to the brim with earnestness, which is but love in
action. For nothing can be done without love.
445
M: Ez megint olyan, mint azt krdezni: Mit fogok
csinlni, ha abbahagyom az lmodst? Nem kell
amiatt aggdnod, hogy mi kvetkezik? Mindig
kvetkezik valami. Az let se nem kezddik, se nem
vgzdik: a mozdthatatlan mozog, a pillanatnyi
fennmarad. A fny nem tud elfogyni, mg ha
megszmllhatatlan kp kerl is ltala kivettsre.
Ugyangy tlt fel sznltig minden formt az let, s
tr vissza forrshoz, mikor a forma felbomlik.
K: Az let oly csodlatos, hogyan fordulhat el
tudatlansg?
M: Anlkl akarod kezelni a betegsget, hogy ltnd
a beteget. Mieltt tudatlansgrl krdezel, mirt nem
kutatod elszr, ki a tudatlan? Amikor azt mondod,
tudatlan vagy, nem tudod, hogy rraktad a
tudatlansg fogalmt, gondolataid s rzseid valdi
llapotra. Vizsgld meg azokat, amint felmerlnek,
fordtsd feljk teljes figyelmedet, s gy fogod
tallni, hogy olyan, mint tudatlansg nem ltezik,
csak figyelmetlensg van. Tntesd ki figyelmeddel, a
tged aggaszt dolgot, ez minden. Vgl is, az
aggds mentlis fjdalom, s a fjdalom mindig
figyelmet kvetel. A pillanatban, hogy figyelmedben
rszested, az irnta val igny megsznik, s a
tudatlansg krdse szerte foszlik. Ahelyett, hogy a
vlaszt vrnd a krdsedre, fedezd fel, ki krdez,
s mirt. Hamarosan rjssz, hogy a fjdalomtl
val flelem ltal krdezsre sztklt elme az. s a
flelemben emlkezet s elvrs, mlt s jv van.
A figyelem vissza hoz tged a jelenbe, a mostba, s
a mostban val jelenlt egy mindig kznl lv
llapot, csak ritkn kap figyelmet.
K: A sadhant egyszer figyelemre reduklod. Hogy
idignyes kurzusokat tartanak?
M: A Guruk rendszerint azt a sadhant tantjk,
amely rvn k maguk elrtk a sajt cljukat, brmi
is legyen az. Ez azonban termszetes, mert sajt
sadhanjukat k ismerik legkzvetlenebbl. n
megtanultam figyelmemet n vagyok rzsemnek
szentelni, s azt a legteljesebb mdon hatkonynak
talltam. Emiatt tudok rla beszlni teljes
meggyzdssel. De az emberek gyakran olyan
helytelenl kezelt, romlott, s gyenge testtel, aggyal,
s elmvel jnnek el, hogy a formanlkli figyelem
llapota felettk ll. Ilyen esetekben a komolysg
bizonyos egyszerbb szimbluma helynval.
Mantra ismtlse, vagy egy kp bmulsa fogja
felkszteni testket s lelkket egy mlyebb s
sokkal kzvetlenebb keressre. Elvgre a
komolysg a nlklzhetetlen, kritikus tnyez. A
sadhana egy edny csupn, amelyet csordultig kell
tlteni komolysggal, ami azonban cselekv
szeretet. Mert semmit nem lehet tenni szeretet
nlkl.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: We love only ourselves.
M: Were it so, it would be splendid. Love your self
wisely and you will reach the summit of perfection.
Everybody loves his body, but few love their real
being.
Q: Does my real being need my love?
M: Your real being is love itself and your many loves M: Valdi lted a szeretet maga, s a te nagyfok
are its reflections according to the situation at the szereteted annak tkrzdse, a pillanatnyi
moment.
Q: We are selfish, we know only self-love.
M: Good enough for a start. By all means wish
yourself well. Think over, feel out deeply what is
really good for you and strive for it earnestly. Very
soon you will find that the real is your only good.
Q: Yet I do not understand why the various Gurus
insist on prescribing complicated and difficult
sadhanas. Don't they know better?
M: It is not what you do, but what you stop doing
that matters. The people who begin their sadhana
are so feverish and restless, that they have to be
very busy to keep themselves on the track. An
absorbing routine is good for them. After some time
they quieten down and turn away from effort. In
peace and silence the skin of the 'I' dissolves and
the inner and the outer become one. The real
sadhana is effortless.
Q: I have sometimes the feeling that space itself is
my body.
M: When you are bound by the illusion: 'I am this
body', you are merely a point in space and a
moment in time. When the self-identification with the
body is no more, all space and time are in your
mind, which is a mere ripple in consciousness,
which is awareness reflected in nature. Awareness
and matter are the active and the passive aspects of
pure being, which is in both and beyond both. Space
and time are the body and the mind of the universal
existence. My feeling is that all that happens in
space and time happens to me, that every
experience is my experience every form is my form.
What I take myself to be, becomes my body and all
that happens to that body becomes my mind. But at
the root of the universe there is pure awareness,
beyond space and time, here and now. Know it to be
your real being and act accordingly.
Q: What difference will it make in action what I take
myself to be. Actions just happen according to
circumstances.
446
K: Mi csak nmagunkat szeretjk.
M: Ha gy lenne, az nagyszer lenne. Szeresd
magad blcsen, s el fogod rni a tkletessg
cscst. Mindenki szereti a testt, de kevesen
szeretik valdi ltket.
K: Valdi ltemnek szksge van a szeretetemre?
helyzetnek megfelelen.
K: nzk vagyunk, csak nszeretet ismernk.
M: Indulsnak elg j. Felttlenl kvnj jt
nmagadnak Gondold t, dertsd fel alaposan, hogy
valjban mi j szmodra, trekedj komolyan annak
elrsre. Nagyon hamar fel fogod fedezni, hogy a
valsg a te egyetlen javad.
K: n mgsem rtem, hogy klnbz Guruk mirt
ragaszkodnak bonyolult, s nehz sadhank
elrshoz. Nem tudnak jobbat?
M: Nem az szmt, mit csinlsz, hanem az, hogy mit
nem csinlsz tovbb. Azok az emberek, akik
elkezdik sadhanjukat, olyan izgatottak, s
nyugtalanok, hogy nagyon el kell foglaljk magukat,
nehogy letrjenek az trl. Egy figyelmet lekt
gyakorlat j hatssal van rjuk. Bizonyos id utn
lecsendesednek, s elfordulnak az erfesztstl.
Bkben s csendben az n krge szertefoszlik, s
a kls s a bels eggy vlik. A valdi sadhana
erfeszts-mentes.
K: Nha gy rzem, hogy maga a tr a testem.
M: Amikor az n ez a test vagyok illzi ltal kttt
vagy, akkor a tr egy pontja, s az id egy pillanata
vagy csupn. Amikor a testtel val nazonossg
megsznik, az egsz tr s id az elmdben van,
amely egy fodra csupn a tudatossgnak, amely a
mindensgben tkrzd tudat. Tudat s anyag
aktv s passzv aspektusai a tiszta ltnek, amely
benne van mindkettben, s tl van mindkettn. Tr
s id a test, az elme viszont az univerzlis
ltezs. Az n rzsem szerint minden, ami trben
s idben trtnik, szmomra trtnik, minden
tapasztalat az n tapasztalatom, minden forma az
n formm. Aminek n magamat tartom, az vlik a
testemm, s minden, ami ezzel a testtel trtnik, az
elmmm vlik. De az univerzum gykern tren s
idn, itten s moston tli tiszta tudat van. Ismerd azt
valdi ltedknt, s cselekedj aszerint.
K: Milyen klnbsg fogja cselekvv tenni azt,
amirl n azt tartom, hogy nmagam vagyok? A
cselekvsek csak a krlmnyeknek megfelelen
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
M: Circumstances and conditions rule the ignorant.
The knower of reality is not compelled. The only law
he obeys is that of love.
94. You are Beyond Space and Time
Questioner: You keep on saying that I was never
born and will never die. If so, how is it that I see the
world as one which has been born and will surely
die?
Maharaj: You believe so because you have never
questioned your belief that you are the body which,
obviously, is born and dies. While alive, it attracts
attention and fascinates so completely that rarely
does one perceive one's real nature. It is like seeing
the surface of the ocean and completely forgetting
the immensity beneath. The world is but the surface
of the mind and the mind is infinite. What we call
thoughts are just ripples in the mind. When the mind
is quiet it reflects reality. When it is motionless
through and through, it dissolves and only reality
remains. This reality is so concrete, so actual, so
much more tangible than mind and matter, that
compared to it even diamond is soft like butter. This
overwhelming actuality makes the world dreamlike,
misty, irrelevant.
Q: This world, with so much suffering in it, how can
you see it as irrelevant. What callousness.
M: It is you who is callous, not me. If your world is so
full of suffering, do something about it; don't add to it
through greed or indolence. I am not bound by your
dreamlike world. In my world the seeds of suffering,
desire and fear are not sown and suffering does not
grow. My world is free from opposites, of mutually
distinctive discrepancies; harmony pervades; its
peace is rocklike; this peace and silence are my
body.
Q: What you say reminds me of the dharmakaya of
the Buddha.
M: Maybe. We need not run off with terminology.
Just see the person you imagine yourself to be as a
part of the world you perceive within your mind and
look at the mind from the outside, for you are not the
mind. After all, your only problem is the eager self-
identification with whatever you perceive. Give up
this habit, remember that you are not what you
perceive, use your power of alert aloofness. See
447
trtnnek.
M: A tudatlant krlmnyek s felttelek uraljk. A
valsg ismerje nincs knyszer alatt. Az egyetlen
trvny, aminek engedelmeskedik, a szeretet.
94. Tren s idn tli vagy
Krdez: Azt lltod, hogy sohasem szlettem, s
soha nem fogok meghalni. Ha gy van, hogy lehet,
hogy gy ltom a vilgot, mint ami megszletett, s
minden ktsgen fell meg fog halni?
Maharaj: Azrt hiszed ezt, mert soha nem
krdjelezted meg a hitedet, hogy te a test vagy,
amely nyilvnvalan szletik, s meghal. Amg lsz
magra irnytja a figyelmet, s olyan tkletesen
megigz, hogy az ember ritkn szleli valdi
termszett. Ez olyan, mint amikor nzed az cen
felsznt, s teljesen elfelejtkezel az alatta lv
vgtelen mlysgrl. A vilg csak felszne az
elmnek, s az elme vgtelen. Amit mi
gondolatoknak neveznk, csak fodrok az elmben.
Amikor az elme csendes, a valsgot tkrzi.
Amikor zig-vrig mozdulatlan szertefoszlik, s csak
a valsg marad. Ez a valsg olyan kzzelfoghat,
olyan valdi, annyival inkbb tapinthat, mint az
elme s az anyag, hogy hozz kpest a gymnt
olyan, mint a lgy vaj. Ez a megsemmist valsg a
vilgot lomszerv, kdss, lnyegtelenn teszi.
K: Ezt a vilgot, amelyben oly sok szenveds van,
hogyan lthatod lnyegtelennek? Micsoda
rzketlensg.
M: Te vagy rzketlen, nem n. Ha a te vilgod oly
szenveds teli, tegyl valamit vele kapcsolatban; ne
jrulj hozz kapzsisg s hanyagsg rvn. Engem
nem ktz meg a te lomszer vilgod. Az n
vilgom nincs bevetve a szenveds, vgy s flelem
magvaival, s nem terem szenvedst. Az n vilgom
mentes az ellenttektl, a klcsnsen
megklnbztet klnbzsgektl; harmnia jrja
t; bkje mint a szikla; ez a bke s csend az n
testem.
K: Amit mondasz, Buddha dharmakayjra
emlkeztet.
M: Lehet. De ne kanyarodjunk el terminolgiai
mellkvgnyra. A szemlyt, aminek kpzeled
nmagadat, lsd az elmden bell szlelt vilg
rsznek, s nzd az elmdet kvlrl, mert te nem
az elme vagy. Tulajdonkppen egyetlen problmd
a moh nazonosuls mindennel, amit szlelsz. Add
fel ezt a szokst, tartsd szben, hogy nem az vagy,
amit szlelsz, hasznld ber tartzkodsod erejt.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
yourself in all that lives and your behaviour will Lsd meg nmagad mindenben, ami l, s
express your vision. Once you realise that there is viselkedsed ki fogja fejezni vzidat. Amint
nothing in this world, which you can call your own, felismered, hogy ebben a vilgban semmi nincs,
you look at it from the outside as you look at a play amit sajtodnak nevezhetnl, kvlrl nzed azt,
on the stage, or a picture on the screen, admiring mint egy sznpadi jtkot, vagy vsznon jtszd
and enjoying, but really unmoved. As long as you filmet, csodlattal s lvezettel, de valjban
imagine yourself to be something tangible and solid, szenvtelenl. Ameddig valamilyen tapinthatnak s
a thing among things, actually existing in time and szilrdnak kpzeled magad, a dolgok egyiknek,
space, short-lived and vulnerable, naturally you will idben s trben valsgos lteznek, rvid
be anxious to survive and increase. But when you letnek s sebezhetnek, addig termszetesen
know yourself as beyond space and time -- in aggdni fogsz a tllsed s a gyarapodsod miatt.
contact with them only at the point of here and now, De amikor gy ismered magad, mint ami tl van
otherwise all-pervading and all-containing, tren s idn ezekkel csak az itt s most
unapproachable, unassailable, invulnerable -- you pontjban rintkezik, egybknt pedig mindent
will be afraid no longer. Know yourself as you are -- betlt, s mindent tartalmaz, megkzelthetetlen,
against fear there is no other remedy. megtmadhatatlan, sebezhetetlen soha tbb nem
fogsz flni. Ismerd magad annak, ami vagy a
You have to learn to think and feel on these lines, or flelem ellen nincs ms orvossg.
you will remain indefinitely on the personal level of
desire and fear, gaining and losing, growing and Meg kell tanulnod ezeken a vonalakon gondolkodni,
decaying. A personal problem cannot be solved on s rezni, vagy a vgtelensgig megmaradsz a vgy
its own level. The very desire to live is the s flelem, nyers s veszts, nvekeds s
messenger of death, as the longing to be happy is hanyatls szemlyes szintjn. Egy szemlyes
the outline of sorrow. The world is an ocean of pain problma nem oldhat meg a sajt szintjn. Az lni
and fear, of anxiety and despair. Pleasures are like vgys valjban a hall zenete, ahogyan a
the fishes, few and swift, rarely come, quickly gone. boldogsg utni vgy a bnat krvonala. A vilg a
A man of low intelligence believes, against all fjdalom s flelem, aggds s ktsgbeess
evidence, that he is an exception and that the world cenja. Az rmk akr a halak, kevesen vannak
owes him happiness. But the world cannot give what s gyorsak, ritkn jnnek, gyorsan mennek. Az
it does not have; unreal to the core, it is of no use foralacsony intelligencij ember azt hiszi, minden
real happiness. It cannot be otherwise. We seek the bizonysg ellenre, hogy kivtel, s hogy a vilg
real because we are unhappy with the unreal. boldogsggal tartozik neki. De a vilg nem tud olyat
Happiness is our real nature and we shall never rest adni, amivel nem rendelkezik; a velejig valtlan, a
until we find it. But rarely we know where to seek it. valdi boldogsg szmra haszontalan. Nem lehet
Once you have understood that the world is but a mskpp. Azrt keressk a valsgot, mert nem
mistaken view of reality, and is not what it appears vagyunk boldogok a valtlannal. A boldogsg a
to be, you are free of its obsessions. Only what is valdi termszetnk, s addig nem pihenhetnk,
compatible with your real being can make you happy mg meg nem talljuk. De ritkn tudjuk, hogy merre
and the world, as you perceive it, is its outright kell keresni. Amint megrted, hogy a vilg a
denial. valsgnak csak egy tves nzete, s nem az,
aminek ltszik, megszabadulsz a
Keep very quiet and watch what comes to the knyszerkpzeteitl. Csak ami valdi lteddel
surface of the mind. Reject the known, welcome the sszeegyeztethet, csak az tud tged boldogg
so far unknown and reject it in its turn. Thus you tenni, s a vilg, ahogyan azt szleled, ennek
come to a state in which there is no knowledge, only egyenes tagadsa.
being, in which being itself is knowledge. To know
by being is direct knowledge. It is based on the Maradj tkletesen csendben, s figyeld, hogy mi
identity of the seer and the seen. Indirect knowledge jn fel az elme felsznre. Utastsd el az ismertet,
is based on sensation and memory, on proximity of dvzld az eddig ismeretlent, s utastsd el,
the perceiver and his percept, confined with the msfell. Ily mdon egy olyan llapotba kerlsz,
contrast between the two. The same with happiness. amelyben nincs tuds, csak lt, amelyben a lt
Usually you have to be sad to know gladness and maga a tuds. A ltezs ltali tuds kzvetlen tuds.
glad to know sadness. True happiness is uncaused A lt s a ltott azonossgn alapul. Az indirekt
and this cannot disappear for lack of stimulation. It is tuds a benyomson s az emlken, az szlel s
not the opposite of sorrow, it includes all sorrow and szlelsnek kzelsgn alapul, amit kett ellentte
suffering. korltoz. Ugyanez van a boldogsggal. Az rm
ismerethez ltalban szomornak kell lenned, s
rvendened kell, hogy ismered a szomorsgot. A
valdi boldogsg ok nlkli, s nem tnhet el
stimulci hinyban. Nem a szomorsg ellentte,

448
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: How can one remain happy among so much
suffering?
M: One cannot help it -- the inner happiness is
overwhelmingly real. Like the sun in the sky, its
expressions may be clouded, but it is never absent.
Q: When we are in trouble, we are bound to be
unhappy.
M: Fear is the only trouble. Know yourself as
independent and you will be free from fear and its
shadows.
Q: What is the difference between happiness and
pleasure?
M: Pleasure depends on things, happiness does not. M: Az rmt dolgok okozzk, a boldogsgot nem.
Q: If happiness is independent, why are we not
always happy?
M: As long as we believe that we need things to
make us happy, we shall also believe that in their
absence we must be miserable. Mind always shapes
itself according to its beliefs. Hence the importance
of convincing oneself that one need not be prodded
into happiness; that, on the contrary, pleasure is a
distraction and a nuisance, for it merely increases
the false conviction that one needs to have and do
things to be happy when in reality it is just the
opposite.
But why talk of happiness at all? You do not think of
happiness except when you are unhappy. A man
who says: 'Now I am happy', is between two sorrows
-- past and future. This happiness is mere
excitement caused by relief from pain. Real
happiness is utterly unselfconscious. It is best
expressed negatively as: 'there is nothing wrong with
me. I have nothing to worry about'. After all, the
ultimate purpose of all sadhana is to reach a point,
when this conviction, instead of being only verbal, is
based on the actual and ever-present experience.
Q: Which experience?
M: The experience of being empty, uncluttered by
memories and expectations; it is like the happiness
of open spaces, of being young, of having all the
time and energy for doing things, for discovery, for
adventure.
449
magban foglal minden szomorsgot, s
szenvedst.
K: Hogy tud az ember boldog maradni, ilyen sok
szenveds kzepette?
M: Ezt az ember nem tudja elsegteni a bels
boldogsg valdisga megsemmist erej. Akr a
nap az gen, megnyilvnulsait felhk takarhatjk,
de soha nincs tvol.
K: Mikor bajban vagyunk, boldogtalanok vagyunk.
M: A flelem az egyetlen baj. Ismerd magad
szabadnak, s meg fogsz szabadulni a flelemtl s
annak rnyaitl.
K: Mi a klnbsg boldogsg s rm kztt?
K: Ha a boldogsg fggetlen, mirt nem vagyunk
llandan boldogok?
M: Amg azt hisszk, hogy dolgokra van szksgnk
a boldogsghoz, addig azt is hinni fogjuk, hogy
hinyuk boldogtalann kell, hogy tegyen. Az elme
mindig hiedelmeinek megfelelen alaktja nmagt.
Ebbl kvetkezik a meggyzds fontossga, hogy
az embernek nem szabad boldogsgra sarkallni
magt; ellenkezleg, az rm zavar tnyez, s
nyg, mert csupn ersti a tvhitet, hogy az
embernek dolgokat kell birtokolnia, s csinlnia
ahhoz, hogy boldog legyen, mikor a valsgban
ennek pp az ellenkezje igaz.
De mirt beszlnk boldogsgrl egyltaln? Nem
gondolsz boldogsgra, kivve, mikor boldogtalan
vagy. Aki azt mondja, most boldog vagyok, kt
egy mlt- s egy jvbeli szomorsg kztt van.
Ez a boldogsg csupn a fjdalom enyhlse ltal
okozott izgalmi llapot. A valdi boldogsg teljesen
ntudatlan. Legjobban tagadlagosan lehet kifejezni:
Semmi baj velem. Semmi nincs, ami miatt
aggdnom kellene. Vgl is, minden sadhana
vgs clja egy olyan pont elrse, ahol a
meggyzds nem pusztn verblis kifejezs,
hanem valsgon alapul, s mindig jelenlev
tapasztalat.
K: Milyen tapasztalat?
M: Az ressg, az emlkektl s elvrsoktl val
mentessg tapasztalata; olyan ez, mint a szabad
terek, az ifjonti lt s annak boldogsga, hogy mind
id, mind energia rendelkezsre ll a dolgok
vghezvitelhez, a felfedezshez, a kalandhoz.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: What remains to discover?
M: The universe without and the immensity within as
they are in reality, in the great mind and heart of
God. The meaning and purpose of existence, the
secret of suffering, life's redemption from ignorance.
Q: If being happy is the same as being free from
fear and worry, cannot it be said that absence of
trouble is the cause of happiness?
M: A state of absence, of non-existence cannot be a
cause; the pre-existence of a cause is implied in the
notion. Your natural state, in which nothing exists,
cannot be a cause of becoming; the causes are
hidden in the great and mysterious power of
memory. But your true home is in nothingness, in
emptiness of all content.
Q: Emptiness and nothingness -- how dreadful.
M: You face it most cheerfully, when you go to
sleep. Find out for yourself the state of wakeful sleep
and you will find it quite in harmony with your real
nature. Words can only give you the idea and the
idea is not the experience. All I can say is that true
happiness has no cause and what has no cause is
immovable. Which does not mean it is perceivable,
as pleasure. What is perceivable is pain and
pleasure; the state of freedom from sorrow can be
described only negatively. To know it directly you
must go beyond the mind addicted to causality and
the tyranny of time.
Q: If happiness is not conscious and consciousness
-- not happy, what is the link between the two?
M: Consciousness being a product of conditions and
circumstances, depends on them and changes
along with them. What is independent, uncreated,
timeless and changeless, and yet ever new and
fresh, is beyond the mind. When the mind thinks of
it, the mind dissolves and only happiness remains.
Q: When all goes, nothingness remains.
M: How can there be nothing without something?
Nothing is only an idea, it depends on the memory of
something. Pure being is quite independent of
existence, which is definable and describable.
Q: Please tell us; beyond the mind does
consciousness continue, or does it end with the
mind?
M: Consciousness comes and goes, awareness
shines immutably.
450
K: Milyen felfedeznival marad?
M: A kls univerzum, s a bels mrhetetlensg,
ahogy azok valjban vannak, Isten hatalmas
elmjben, s szvben. A ltezs rtelme s clja,
a szenveds titka, az let tudatlansgtl val
megvltsa.
K: Ha boldognak lenni ugyanaz, mint flelemtl s
aggdstl szabadnak lenni, akkor nem lehet azt
mondani, hogy a baj hinya a boldogsgnak az oka?
M: A hiny, a nemltezs llapota nem lehet ok; az
ok elbb ltezse benne foglaltatik a fogalomban.
Termszetes llapotod, amelyben semmi nem
ltezik, nem lehet oka a valamiv vlsnak; az okok
az emlkezet nagy, s titokzatos hatalmban
rejtznek. De a te valdi otthonod a nemltezsben,
a minden tartalomtl mentes ressgben van.
K: ressg, s nemltezs milyen flelmetes.
M: Arcod alvskor a legdersebb. Fedezd fel
magadnak az bren alvs llapott, s teljes
harmniban lvnek fogod azt tallni a te valdi
termszeteddel. A szavak csak az idet adhatjk
neked, s az idea nem a tapasztalat. Csak azt
mondhatom, hogy az igaz boldogsgnak nincs oka,
s aminek nincs oka, az megvltozhatatlan. Ami
nem jelenti, hogy rmknt szlelhet. Ami
szlelhet, az a fjdalom, s az rm; a
szomorsgtl val mentessg llapota csak
tagadlagosan rhat le. Kzvetlen ismerethez meg
kell haladni a kauzalits-fgg elmt, s az id
zsarnoksgt.
K: Ha a boldogsg nem tudatos, s a tudatossg
nem boldog, mi a kapcsolat a kett kztt?
M: A tudatossg, lvn a felttelek s krlmnyek
termke, azoktl fgg, s azokkal egytt vltozik.
Ami fggetlen, nem teremtetett, idtlen, s
megvltozhatatlan, s mgis rkk j, s friss, az
tl van az elmn. Az elme amikor arra gondol
szertefoszlik, s csak boldogsg marad.
K: Mikor minden eltnik, semmi nem marad.
M: Hogy lehetne semmi valami nlkl? A semmi
csak egy idea, ami a semmi emlktl fgg. A tiszta
lt teljesen fggetlen a ltezstl, amely
meghatrozhat, s lerhat.
K: Krlek, mondd el neknk, hogy az elmn tl
folytatdik-e a tudatossg, vagy az elmvel egytt
vge tr?
M: A tudatossg jn s megy, a tudat llandan
ragyog.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: Who is aware in awareness?
M: When there is a person, there is also
consciousness. 'I am' mind, consciousness denote
the same state. If you say 'I am aware', it only
means: 'I am conscious of thinking about being
aware'. There is no 'I am' in awareness.
Q: What about witnessing?
M: Witnessing is of the mind. The witness goes with
the witnessed. In the state of non-duality all
separation ceases.
Q: What about you? Do you continue in awareness? K: Mi van a te esetedben? Folytatdsz a tudatban?
M: The person, the 'I am this body, this mind, this
chain of memories, this bundle of desires and fears'
disappears, but something you may call identity,
remains. It enables me to become a person when
required. Love creates its own necessities, even of
becoming a person.
Q: It is said that Reality manifests itself as existence
-- consciousness -- bliss. Are they absolute or
relative?
M: They are relative to each other and depend on
each other. Reality is independent of its
expressions.
Q: What is the relation between reality and its
expressions?
M: No relation. In reality all is real and identical. As
we put it, saguna and nirguna are one in
Parabrahman. There is only the Supreme. In
movement, it is saguna. Motionless, it is nirguna. But
it is only the mind that moves or does not move. The
real is beyond, you are beyond. Once you have
understood that nothing perceivable, or conceivable
can be yourself, you are free of your imaginations.
To see everything as imagination, born of desire, is
necessary for self-realisation. We miss the real by
lack of attention and create the unreal by excess of
imagination.
You have to give your heart and mind to these
things and brood over them repeatedly. It is like
cooking food. You must keep it on the fire for some
time before it is ready.
Q: Am I not under the sway of destiny, of my karma?
What can I do against it? What I am and what I do is
pre-determined. Even my so-called free choice is
predetermined; only I am not aware of it and imagine
myself to be free.
451
K: Ki az, aki a tudatban tudatos?
M: Amikor szemly ltezik, tudatossg is ltezik. n
vagyok, elme, tudatossg, ugyanazt az llapotot
jellik. Ha azt mondod tudatos vagyok, csak annyit
jelent: tudatban vagyok a tudatos ltrl val
gondolkodsnak. A tudatban nincs n vagyok.
K: Mi a vlemnyed a tansgrl?
M: Az elm a tansg. A tan s a tanstott egytt
jrnak. A nem-kettssg llapotban minden
elklnls megsznik.
M: A szemly, amely nem ms, mint az n vagyok
ez a test, ez az elme, az emlkeknek ez a lncolata,
a vgyaknak s flelmeknek ez a ktege eltnik,
de valami, amit identitsnak lehet nevezni,
megmarad. Ez teszi lehetv szmomra, hogy
szemlly vljak, mikor szksges. A szeretet
megteremti sajt szksgleteit, mg a szemlly
vlst is.
K: Azt mondjk, hogy a Valsg ltezsknt
tudatossgknt boldogsgknt nyilvntja meg
magt. Ezek abszolt, vagy viszonylagos dolgok?
M: Egymshoz kpest viszonylagosak, s fggenek
egymstl. A valsg fggetlen a
megnyilvnulsaitl.
K: Mi az sszefggs a valsg, s annak
megnyilvnulsai kztt?
M: Nincs sszefggs. A valsgban minden vals,
s identikus. Ahogy megfogalmaztuk, a saguna s a
nirguna egyek a Parabrahmanban. Csak a
Legfelsbb ltezik. Mozgsban saguna.
Mozdulatlanul nirguna. De csak az elme mozog,
vagy nem mozog. A valsg azon tl van, te azon
tl vagy. Amint megrtetted, hogy te nem lehetsz
semmilyen szlelhet vagy elkpzelhet, szabad
vagy a kpzeldseidtl. Az nmegvalsulshoz
arra van szksg, hogy mindent kpzeldsnek,
vgy ltal szletettnek lss. A valsgot
elszalasztjuk a figyelem hinya miatt, s a szertelen
kpzelds ltal megteremtjk a valtlant.
Szvedet s elmdet t kell adnod ezeknek a
dolgoknak, s jra meg jra el kell tndnd felettk.
Olyan ez, mint a fzs. A tzn kell tartanod egy
ideig az telt, mieltt elkszlne.
K: Nem vagyok-e a sors, karmm uralma alatt? Mit
tudnk tenni ellene? Ami vagyok, s amit csinlok,
az eleve meghatrozott. Mg az gynevezett
szabad vlaszts is eleve meghatrozott; csak nem
vagyok tudatban, s szabadnak kpzelem magam.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
M: Again, it all depends how you look at it.
Ignorance is like a fever -- it makes you see things
which are not there. Karma is the divinely prescribed
treatment. Welcome it and follow the instructions
faithfully and you will get well. A patient will leave the
hospital after he recovers. To insist on immediate
freedom of choice and action will merely postpone
recovery. Accept your destiny and fulfil it -- this is the
shortest way to freedom from destiny, though not
from love and its compulsions. To act from desire
and fear is bondage, to act from love is freedom.
95. Accept Life as it Comes
Questioner: I was here last year. Now I am again
before you. What makes me come I really do not
know, but somehow I cannot forget you.
Maharaj: Some forget, some do not, according to
their destinies, which you may call chance, if you
prefer.
Q: Between chance and destiny there is a basic
difference.
M: Only in your mind. In fact, you do not know what
causes what? Destiny is only a blanket word to
cover up your ignorance. Chance is another word.
Q: Without knowledge of causes and their results
can there be freedom?
M: Causes and results are infinite in number and
variety. Everything affects everything. In this
universe, when one thing changes, everything
changes. Hence the great power of man in changing
the world by changing himself.
Q: According to your own words, you have, by the
grace of your Guru, changed radically some forty
years ago. Yet the world remains as it had been
before.
M: My world has changed completely. Yours
remains the same, for you have not changed.
Q: How is it that your change has not affected me?
M: Because there was no communion between us.
Do not consider yourself as separate from me and
we shall at once share in the common state.
452
M: Ismtlem, minden azon mlik, hogyan tekintesz
r. A tudatlansg olyan, mint a lz olyanokat lttat
veled, amik nem lteznek. A karma az isteni ltal
elrt gygykezels. dvzld, kvesd utastsait
odaadan, s helyre fogsz jnni. A beteg el fogja
hagyni a krhzat, miutn felpl. A vlaszts s
cselekvs kzvetlen szabadsghoz val
ragaszkods csak kslelteti a felplst. Fogadd el
sorsod, s teljestsd be azt ez a legrvidebb t a
sorstl val megszabadulshoz, jllehet a
szeretettl, s annak knyszereitl nem. Vgytl s
flelemtl indttatva cselekedni ktelk, szeretetbl
cselekedni szabadsg.
95. Fogadd az letet, ahogy az jn
Krdez: Mlt vben is itt voltam. Most megint
eljttem hozzd. Igazbl nem tudom, mi ksztet r,
hogy ide jjjek, de valahogy nem tudok rlad
elfeledkezni.
Maharaj: Van, aki felejt, van, aki nem, sorsa szerint,
amit eslynek is nevezhetsz, ha tetszik.
K: Esly s sors kztt alapvet klnbsg van.
M: Csak az elmdben. Valjban nem tudod, hogy
mi okoz mit. A sors csak egy fedsz, amivel
tudatlansgodat palstolod. Az esly egy msik sz.
K: Az okok, s azok kvetkezmnyeinek ismerete
nlkl szabadd lehet vlni?
M: Az okoknak s kvetkezmnyeknek vgtelen
szma s vltozata van. Minden hat mindenre. Az
univerzumban, amikor egy dolog vltozik, minden
vltozik. Innen szrmazik az embernek az a
nagyszer hatalma, hogy nmagt megvltoztatva
megvltoztatja a vilgot.
K: Elmondsod szerint, Gurud kegyelme ltal,
mintegy negyven vvel ezeltt, alapjban
megvltoztl. A vilg mgis ugyanolyan maradt, mint
annak eltte.
M: Az n vilgom teljesen megvltozott. A tied
ugyanolyan maradt, mert te nem vltoztl.
K: A te vltozsod mirt nem hatott rm?
M: Mert nem volt kommunikci kzttnk. Ne gy
tekintsd magad, mint tlem klnllt, s azonnal
kzs lesz az llapotunk.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: I have some property in the United States which I
intend to sell and buy some land in the Himalayas. I
shall build a house, lay out a garden, get two or
three cows and live quietly. People tell me that
property and quiet are not compatible, that I shall at
once get into trouble with officials, neighbours and
thieves. Is it inevitable?
M: The least you can expect is an endless
succession of visitors who will make your abode into
a free and open guesthouse. Better accept your life
as it shapes, go home and look after your wife with
love and care. Nobody else needs you. Your dreams
of glory will land you in more trouble.
Q: It is not glory that I seek. I seek Reality.
M: For this you need a well-ordered and quiet life,
peace of mind and immense earnestness. At every
moment whatever comes to you unasked, comes
from God and will surely help you, if you make the
fullest use of it. It is only what you strive for, out of
your own imagination and desire, that gives you
trouble.
Q: Is destiny the same as grace?
M: Absolutely. Accept life as it comes and you will
find it a blessing.
Q: I can accept my own life. How can I accept the
sort of life others are compelled to live?
M: You are accepting it anyhow. The sorrows of
others do not interfere with your pleasures. If you
were really compassionate, you would have
abandoned long ago all self-concern and entered
the state from which alone you can really help.
Q: If I have a big house and enough land, I may
create an Ashram, with individual rooms; common
meditation hall, canteen, library, office etc.
M: Ashrams are not made, they happen. You cannot
start nor prevent them, as you cannot start or stop a
river. Too many factors are involved in the creation
of a successful Ashram and your inner maturity is
only one of them. Of course, if you are ignorant of
your real being, whatever you do must turn to ashes.
You cannot imitate a Guru and get away with it. All
hypocrisy will end in disaster.
Q: What is the harm in behaving like a saint even
before being one?
453
K: Van nmi vagyonom az Egyeslt llamokban,
amit el akarok adni, hogy fldet vegyek a
Himaljban. Terveim szerint ptek egy hzat,
kialaktok egy kertet, szerzek kt, vagy hrom
tehenet, s nyugalomban lek. Mondjk, hogy a
vagyon s a nyugalom nem sszefrhetk, s hogy
azonnal hivatalokkal, szomszdokkal, s tolvajokkal
fogok sszetkzsbe kerlni. Ez elkerlhetetlen?
M: A legkevesebb, amire szmthatsz, a ltogatk
vgtelen sora, akik lakhelyedet szabad, s nyitott
vendghzz fogjk tenni. Jobban teszed, ha gy
fogadod el az letedet, ahogy alakul, menj haza,
gondoskodj prodrl szeretettel s trdssel. Senki
msra nincs szksged. Dicssgrl szl lmaid
csak gondjaidat nvelik.
K: Nem dicssget keresek. A Valsgot keresem.
M: Ehhez szksged van egy jl szablyozott, s
nyugodt letre, az elme bkjre, s mrhetetlen
komolysgra. Minden pillanatban, akrmi kretlen
addik, az Istentl jn, s biztosan segt tged, ha a
legteljesebb mrtkben kihasznlod. Csak arra
trekedj, hogy kvl maradj sajt kpzeldseiden
s vgyaidon, amelyek bajt hoznak rd.
K: Sors s kegyelem ugyanazok?
M: Abszolte. Fogadd el az letet, ahogy jn, s
ldsnak fogod azt tallni.
K: A sajt letemet el tudom fogadni. Hogyan tudom
elfogadni azt az lett, amelyet a tbbieknek
knyszerlnek lni?
M: Elfogadod valahogyan. Msok szomorsga nem
zavarjk az rmdet. Ha valban egyttrz lennl,
mr rgen feladtl volna minden nvonatkozst, s
belptl volna abba az llapotba, amelyben valban
segthetsz.
K: Ha lenne egy nagy hzam, s elegend fldem,
ltrehozhatnk egy Ashramot, lakszobkkal, kzs
meditcis teremmel, tkezdvel, knyvtrral,
irodval, stb.
M: Az Ashramok nem kszlnek, hanem trtnnek.
Nem tudod ket sem elkezdeni, sem meggtolni,
ahogy a folyt sem tudod meglltani. Tl sok
tnyez jtszik szerepet egy sikeres Ashram
ltrejttben, s a te bels rettsged ezeknek csak
egyike. Termszetesen, ha nem vagy tudatban
valdi ltednek, brmit teszel, csaldnod kell. Nem
tudsz gy Gurut utnozni, hogy azt szrazon
megszd. Minden kpmutats katasztrfban
vgzdik.
K: Mi rossz van abban, ha valaki szentknt
viselkedik, mieltt azz vlna?
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
M: Rehearsing saintliness is a sadhana. It is
perfectly all right, provided no merit is claimed.
Q: How can I know whether I am able to start an
Ashram unless I try?
M: As long as you take yourself to be a person, a
body and a mind, separate from the stream of life,
having a will of its own, pursuing its own aims, you
are living merely on the surface and whatever you
do will be short-lived and of little value, mere straw
to feed the flames of vanity. You must put in true
worth before you can expect something real. What is
your worth?
Q: By what measure shall I measure it?
M: Look at the content of your mind. You are what
you think about. Are you not most of the time busy
with your own little person and its daily needs?
The value of regular meditation is that it takes you
away from the humdrum of daily routine and reminds
you that you are not what you believe yourself to be.
But even remembering is not enough -- action must
follow conviction. Don't be like the rich man who has
made a detailed will, but refuses to die.
Q: Is not gradualness the law of life?
M: Oh, no. The preparation alone is gradual, the
change itself is sudden and complete. Gradual
change does not take you to a new level of
conscious being. You need courage to let go.
Q: I admit it is courage that I lack.
M: It is because you are not fully convinced.
Complete conviction generates both desire and
courage. And meditation is the art of achieving faith
through understanding. In meditation you consider
the teaching received, in all its aspects and
repeatedly, until out of clarity confidence is born and,
with confidence, action. Conviction and action are
inseparable. If action does not follow conviction,
examine your convictions, don't accuse yourself of
lack of courage. Self-depreciation will take you
nowhere. Without clarity and emotional assent of
what use is will?
Q: What do you mean by emotional assent? Am I
not to act against my desires?
M: You will not act against your desires. Clarity is
not enough. Energy comes from love -- you must
love to act -- whatever the shape and object of your
454
M: Mr tbbszr mondtam, a szentsg sadhana.
Tkletesen rendben van, feltve hogy nem akarjk
rdemnek tekinteni.
K: Honnan tudhatnm, hogy kpes vagyok-e egy
Ashram elindtsra, ha nem prblom ki?
M: Amg szemlynek tartod magad, amely test s
elme, elklnlt az let folyamtl, sajt akarattal
rendelkezik, sajt cljait kergeti, addig csupn
ltszlag lsz, s brmi amit csinlsz, rvid let, s
csekly rtk lesz, csupn hisgod lngjait tpll
szalma. Igazi rtket kell felmutatnod, mieltt valami
valdira szmthatnl. Mi a te rtked?
K: Milyen mrcvel mrve?
M: Tekintsd elmd tartalmt. Az vagy, amit gondolsz
magadrl. Nemde idd legnagyobb rszt sajt
csekly szemlyedre, s annak napi szksgleteire
fordtod?
A rendszeres meditci rtke, hogy eltvolt a napi
rutin egyhangsgtl, s emlkeztet, hogy nem az
vagy, akinek hiszed magad. De mg emlkezni sem
elg tettnek kell kvetnie a meggyzdst. Ne
olyan lgy, mint a gazdag ember, aki rszletes
vgrendeletet r, de visszautastja a hallt.
K: Nincs fokozatossg az let trvnyben?
M: , nincs. Egyedl az elkszlet fokozatos, a
vltozs maga hirtelen, s teljes. Fokozatos vltozs
nem visz a tudatos lt j szintjre. Btorsg kell az
elengedshez.
K: Bevallom, hjn vagyok a btorsgnak.
M: Mert nem teljes a meggyzdttsged. A
tkletes meggyzds eredmnyezi mind a vgyat,
mind a btorsgot. s a meditci a hit megrtsen
keresztl trtn megvalstsnak a mvszete. A
meditciban elmlkedsz a kapott tantson, annak
minden aspektusn, jra meg jra, mg a
vilgossgbl bizalom, s a bizalommal cselekvs
szletik. Bizalom s cselekvs elvlaszthatatlanok.
Ha a bizalmat nem kveti cselekvs, vizsgld fell
meggyzdseidet, ne vdold nmagad btorsg
hinyval. A tlzottan negatv nrtkels nem
vezet sehov. Tisztasg s rzelmi hozzjruls
nlkl mi haszna az akaratnak?
K: Mit rtesz rzelmi hozzjruls alatt? Ne
cselekedjek vgyaim ellenben?
M: Nem fogsz vgyaid ellenben cselekedni.
Vilgossg nem elg. Energia a szeretetbl jn
szeretned kell a cselekvst brmi is szereteted
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
love. Without clarity and charity courage is
destructive. People at war are often wonderfully
courageous, but what of it?
Q: I see quite clearly that all I want is a house in a
garden where I shall live in peace. Why should I not
act on my desire?
M: By all means, act. But do not forget the M: Hogyne, cselekedj. Csak ne feledd a
inevitable, unexpected. Without rain your garden will kikerlhetetlent, a vratlant. Es nlkl a kerted nem
not flourish. You need courage for adventure. fog virgozni. Btorsg kell a vllalakozshoz.
Q: I need time to collect my courage, don't hustle
me. Let me ripen for action.
M: The entire approach is wrong. Action delayed is
action abandoned. There may be other chances for
other actions, but the present moment is lost --
irretrievably lost. All preparation is for the future --
you cannot prepare for the present.
Q: What is wrong with preparing for the future?
M: Acting in the now is not much helped by your
preparations. Clarity is now, action is now. Thinking
of being ready impedes action. And action is the
touchstone of reality.
Q: Even when we act without conviction?
M: You cannot live without action, and behind each
action there is some fear or desire. Ultimately, all
you do is based on your conviction that the world is
real and independent of yourself. Were you
convinced of the contrary, your behaviour would
have been quite different.
Q: There is nothing wrong with my convictions; my
actions are shaped by circumstances.
M: In other words, you are convinced of the reality of
your circumstances, of the world in which you live.
Trace the world to its source and you will find that
before the world was, you were and when the world
is no longer, you remain. Find your timeless being
and your action will bear it testimony. Did you find it?
Q: No, I did not.
M: Then what else have you to do? Surely, this is
the most urgent task. You cannot see yourself as
independent of everything unless you drop
everything and remain unsupported and undefined.
Once you know yourself, it is immaterial what you
do, but to realise your independence, you must test
it by letting go all you were dependent on. The
realised man lives on the level of the absolutes; his
455
formja s trgya. Tisztasg s knyrletessg
nlkl a btorsg rombol. Hborban az emberek
gyakran rendkvl btrak, s aztn?
K: Teljesen vilgosan ltom, hogy minden vgyam
egy kertes hz, ahol bkben lhetek. Mirt ne
cselekedhetnk a vgyam szerint?
K: Idre van szksgem, hogy sszeszedjem a
btorsgomat, ne siettess. Meg kell rjek a
cselekvsre.
M: Az egsz megkzeltsed rossz. A ksleltetett
cselekvs elmaradt cselekvs. Lehetnek ms
alkalmak, ms cselekvsekre, de a jelen pillanat
elveszett jvtehetetlenl elveszett. Minden
elkszlet a jvrt van nem tudsz elkszlni a
jelenre.
K: Mi a baj a jvre val felkszlssel?
M: A jelenben val cselekvst nem nagyon segtik
az elkszleteid. Vilgossg most van, cselekvs
most van. A felkszls gondolata gtolja a
cselekvst. s a cselekvs a valsg prbakve.
K: Mg ha meggyzds nlkl cseleksznk is?
M: Nem tudsz cselekvs nlkl lni, s minden
cselekvs mgtt van bizonyos flelem s vgy.
Vgs soron, minden, amit teszel, azon a
meggyzdseden nyugszik, hogy a vilg valdi, s
tled fggetlen. Ha az ellenkezjrl lennl
meggyzdve, viselkedsed teljesen ms lenne.
K: Nincs semmi baj a meggyzdseimmel;
tetteimet a krlmnyek alaktjk.
M: Msszval, meggyzdsed szerint a valsg
azonos a krlmnyeiddel, a vilggal, amelyben
lsz. Kvesd nyomon a vilgot, annak forrsig, s
gy fogod tallni, mieltt a vilg volt, te voltl, s
amikor a vilg megsznik, te fennmaradsz. Fedezd
fel idtlen ltedet, s cselekvsed hordozni fogja
annak bizonysgt. Felfedezted?
K: Nem, nem fedeztem fel.
M: Akkor mi ms tennivald van? Ktsg kvl ez a
legsrgsebb feladatod. Nem tudod magad
mindentl fggetlennek ltni, kivve, ha elvetsz
mindent, s tmogatatlan s meghatrozatlan
maradsz. Amint ismered nmagad, mellkes, mit
csinlsz, de fggetlensged realizlst azzal kell
tesztelned, hogy egyltaln nem veszel rla
tudomst, hogy fggenl. A megvalsult ember az
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
wisdom, love and courage are complete, there is
nothing relative about him. Therefore he must prove
himself by tests more stringent, undergo trials more
demanding. The tester, the tested and the set up for
testing are all within; it is an inner drama to which
none can be a party.
Q: Crucifixion, death and resurrection -- we are on
familiar grounds. I have read, heard and talked
about it endlessly, but to do it I find myself
incapable.
M: Keep quiet, undisturbed, and the wisdom and the
power will come on their own. You need not hanker.
Wait in silence of the heart and mind. It is very easy
to be quiet, but willingness is rare. You people want
to become supermen overnight. Stay without
ambition, without the least desire, exposed,
vulnerable, unprotected, uncertain and alone,
completely open to and welcoming life as it
happens, without the selfish conviction that all must
yield you pleasure or profit, material or so-called
spiritual.
Q: I respond to what you say, but I just do not see
how it is done.
M: If you know how to do it, you will not do it.
Abandon every attempt, just be; don't strive, don't
struggle, let go every support, hold on to the blind
sense of being, brushing off all else. This is enough.
Q: How is this brushing done? The more I brush off,
the more it comes to the surface.
M: Refuse attention, let things come and go. Desires
and thoughts are also things. Disregard them. Since
immemorial time the dust of events was covering the
clear mirror of your mind, so that only memories you
could see. Brush off the dust before it has time to
settle; this will lay bare the old layers until the true
nature of your mind is discovered. It is all very
simple and comparatively easy; be earnest and
patient, that is all. Dispassion, detachment, freedom
from desire and fear, from all self-concern, mere
awareness -- free from memory and expectation --
this is the state of mind to which discovery can
happen. After all, liberation is but the freedom to
discover.
96. Abandon Memories and
456
abszolt szintjn l; blcsessge, szeretete, s
btorsga teljes, semmi nem viszonylagos vele
kapcsolatban. Ezrt neki sokkal szigorbb tesztekkel
kell prbra tenni nmagt, sokkal ignyesebb
vizsglatokon kell keresztlmennie. A tesztel, a
tesztelt, s a tesztels, mind bell van; ez egy bels
drma, amelynek senki nem lehet rszese.
K: Keresztre feszts, hall, s feltmads a jl
ismert terepen vagyunk. Olvastam, hallottam s
beszlgettem rla vg nlkl, de megcsinlni azt,
szerintem kptelen vagyok.
M: Maradj csendes, nyugodt, s a blcsessg s a
hatalom sajt maguktl jnni fognak. Nem kell
svrognod. Vrakozz szved s elmd csendjben.
Nagyon knny csendben lenni, csak a hajlandsg
ritka. Te olyan ember vagy, aki mrl holnapra akar
szupermen lenni. Legyl becsvgy nlkli, a
legcseklyebb vgy nlkl, kitett, sebezhet,
vdtelen, bizonytalan s egyedlll, az letre
teljesen nyitott, s trtnseit teljesen elfogad,
azon nz meggyzdstl mentes, hogy
mindennek a te rmdet vagy hasznodat kell
szolglnia, legyen az anyagi, vagy gynevezett
spiritulis.
K: Amit mondasz, az hatssal van rm, csak ppen
nem tudom, hogyan kell megcsinlni.
M: Ha tudod, hogyan kell csinlni, akkor nem fogod
csinlni. Hagyj fel minden prblkozssal, csak
legyl; ne trekedj, engedj el minden tmogatst,
ragaszkodj a lt vak rzshez, elzve minden
mst. Ez elg.
K: Hogyan kell ezt az elzst csinlni? Minl tbbet
elzk, annl tbb jn a felsznre.
M: Utastsd el a figyelmet, hagyd a dolgokat jnni s
menni. A vgyak s gondolatok is dolgok. Hagyd
ket figyelmen kvl. Az esemnyek pora idtlen
idk ta lepi elmd tiszta tkrt, gy csak az
emlkezetet lthatod. Sprd le a port, mieltt ideje
lenne lelepedni; ez fel fogja fedni a rgi rtegeket,
mgnem elmd igaz termszete felfedsre kerl.
Mindez nagyon egyszer, s arnylag knny; lgy
komoly, s trelmes, ez minden. Szenvtelensg,
prtatlansg, mentessg vgytl s flelemtl,
minden nvonatkozstl, tiszta tudat emlktl s
elvrstl val mentessg ez az elme azon
llapota, amelyben a megtalls megtrtnhet.
Vgs soron, a megszabaduls nem ms, mint a
megtallni kvnt szabadsg.
96. Hagyj fel az emlkekkel s az
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Expectations
Questioner: I am an American by birth and for the
last one year I was staying in an Ashram in Madhya
Pradesh, studying Yoga in its many aspects. We
had a teacher, whose Guru, a disciple of the great
Sivananda Saraswati, stays in Monghyr. I stayed at
Ramanashram also. While in Bombay I went through
an intensive course of Burmese meditation managed
by one Goenka. Yet I have not found peace. There
is an improvement in self-control and day-to-day
discipline, but that is all. I cannot say exactly what
caused what. I visited many holy places. How each
acted on me, I cannot say.
Maharaj: Good results will come, sooner or later. At
Sri Ramanashram did you get some instructions?
Q: Yes, some English people were teaching me and K: Igen, volt ott nhny angol ember, akik tantottak
also an Indian follower of gnana yoga, residing there engem, s egy llandan ott tartzkod indiai gnana
permanently, was giving me lessons. yoga kvettl is kaptam leckket.
M: What are your plans?
Q: I have to return to the States because of visa
difficulties. I intend to complete my B.Sc., study
Nature Cure and make it my profession.
M: A good profession, no doubt.
Q: Is there any danger in pursuing the path of Yoga
at all cost?
M: Is a match-stick dangerous when the house is on
fire? The search for reality is the most dangerous of
all undertakings for it will destroy the world in which
you live. But if your motive is love of truth and life,
you need not be afraid.
Q: I am afraid of my own mind. It is so unsteady.
M: In the mirror of your mind images appear and
disappear. The mirror remains. Learn to distinguish
the immovable in the movable, the unchanging in
the changing, till you realise that all differences are
in appearance only and oneness is a fact. This basic
identity -- you may call God, or Brahman, or the
matrix (Prakriti), the words matters little -- is only the
realisation that all is one. Once you can say with
confidence born from direct experience: 'I am the
world, the world is myself', you are free from desire
and fear on one hand and become totally
responsible for the world on the other. The
senseless sorrow of mankind becomes your sole
concern.
457
elvrsokkal
Krdez: Amerikai szlets vagyok, s az utbbi
egy vet Ashramban tltttem Madhya Pradeshben,
ahol Yogt tanulmnyoztam, annak sokfle
aspektusban. Volt egy tanrunk, akinek a Guruja a
nagy Sivananda Saraswati volt tantvnya,
Monghyrbl. A Ramanashramban is voltam.
Bombayi tartzkodsom sorn elvgeztem egy
burmai intenzv meditcis tanfolyamot, amit maga
Goenka vezetett. Mgsem talltam meg a bkt.
Javuls kvetkezett be nuralmam, s mindennapi
fegyelmem tern, de ez minden. Nem tudom
pontosan megmondani, mi idzett el mit. Sok szent
helyet megltogattam. Mi mdon hatottak rm, nem
tudom megmondani.
Maharaj: A j eredmnyek elbb-utbb be fognak
kvetkezni. A Sri Ramanashramban kaptl
valamilyen instrukcikat?
M: Mik a terveid?
K: Vissza kell trnem az llamokba, vzum
problmk miatt. Meg akarom szerezni a B. Sc.
fokozatot, termszet gygyszatot tanulok, s ez
lesz a foglalkozsom.
M: J foglalkozs, nem fr hozz ktsg.
K: Jr valamilyen veszllyel a Yoga minden ron
val gyakorlsa?
M: Veszlyes-e a gyufaszl, mikor a hz lngokban
ll? A valsg keresse minden vllalkozsok
legveszlyesebbike, mert le fogja rombolni a vilgot,
amelyben lsz. De ha az igazsg s az let
szeretete motivl, nem kell flned.
K: A sajt elmmet fltem. Olyan llhatatlan.
M: Elmd tkrben a kpek jelennek meg, s tnnek
el. A tkr fennmarad. Tanuld megklnbztetni a
vltozhatatlant a mozdthatban, a vltozatlant a
vltozban, mg fel nem ismered, hogy minden
klnbsg ltszat csupn, s az egysg tny. Ez az
alap identits nevezheted Istennek, vagy
Brahmannak, vagy a mtrixnak (Prakriti), a szavak
kevss szmtanak csak annak felismerse, hogy
minden egy. Amint kzvetlen tapasztalatbl szlet
bizonyossggal azt tudod mondani: n vagyok a
vilg, a vilg nmagam, mentes leszel vgytl s
flelemtl, egyfell, s teljesen felelss vlsz a
vilgrt, msfell. Az emberisg rtelmetlen
szomorsga vlik egyedli gondodd.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: So even a gnani has his problems.
M: Yes, but they are no longer of his own creation.
His suffering is not poisoned by a sense of guilt.
There is nothing wrong with suffering for the sins of
others. Your Christianity is based on this.
Q: Is not all suffering self-created?
M: Yes, as long as there is a separate self to create
it. In the end you know that there is no sin, no guilt,
no retribution, only life in its endless transformations.
With the dissolution of the personal 'I' personal
suffering disappears. What remains is the great
sadness of compassion, the horror of the
unnecessary pain.
Q: Is there anything unnecessary in the scheme of
things?
M: Nothing is necessary, nothing is inevitable. Habit
and passion blind and mislead. Compassionate
awareness heals and redeems. There is nothing we
can do, we can only let things happen according to
their nature.
Q: Do you advocate complete passivity?
M: Clarity and charity is action. Love is not lazy and
clarity directs. You need not worry about action, look
after your mind and heart. Stupidity and selfishness
are the only evil.
Q: What is better -- repetition of God's name, or
meditation?
M: Repetition will stabilise your breath. With deep
and quiet breathing vitality will improve, which will
influence the brain and help the mind to grow pure
and stable and fit for meditation. Without vitality little
can be done, hence the importance of its protection
and increase. Posture and breathing are a part of
Yoga, for the body must be healthy and well under
control, but too much concentration on the body
defeats its own purpose, for it is the mind that is
primary in the beginning. When the mind has been
put to rest and disturbs no longer the inner space
(chidakash), the body acquires a new meaning and
its transformation becomes both necessary and
possible.
Q: I have been wandering all over India, meeting
many Gurus and learning in driblets several Yogas.
Is it all right to have a taste of everything?
M: No, this is but an introduction. You will meet a
458
K: Ht, mg a gnaninak is megvannak a maga
problmi.
M: Igen, de azok nem az sajt teremtmnyei
tbb. Szenvedst nem mrgezi a bntudat
rzse. Semmi baj nincs a msok bnrt val
szenvedssel. A te keresztnysged ezen alapul.
K: Nem minden szenveds n-teremt?
M: De igen, amg ltezik a klnll n, amely azt
megteremti. A vgn tudod, hogy nem ltezik bn,
nincs bnssg, nincs bntets, csak let van, a
maga vgtelen vltozatossgban. A szemlyes n
felolddsval a szemlyes szenveds eltnik. Ami
marad, az nagy szomorsg irnti sznalom, a
felesleges fjdalomtl val irtzs.
K: Van valami, ami szksgtelen a dolgok
rendjben?
M: Semmi nem szksges, semmi nem
elkerlhetetlen. A szoks s a szenvedly vakk
tesz, s flrevezet. Az egytt rz tudat gygyt, s
megvlt. Semmit nem tudunk tenni, csak azt, hogy
hagyjuk a dolgokat megtrtnni, a sajt
termszetknek megfelelen.
K: Helyesled a teljes passzivitst?
M: A tisztasg s knyrletessg cselekvs. A
szeretet nem lustlkodik, s a tisztasg vezrel.
Nem a cselekvs miatt kell aggdnod, elmddel, s
szveddel trdj. Az ostobasg, s az nzs az
egyetlen gonosz.
K: Mi jobb Isten nevnek ismtelgetse, vagy a
meditci?
M: Az ismtelgets stabilizlni fogja a lgzsedet. A
mly s nyugodt lgzs rvn javulni fog vitalitsod,
mely hatssal lesz agyadra, s segti elmdet, hogy
nvelje tisztasgt, s stabilitst, s elkszljn a
meditcira. Vitalits nlkl keveset tehetsz, ebbl
kvetkezik vdelmnek s erstsnek fontossga.
A pozitra s a lgz gyakorlat azrt rszei a
Yognak, mert a testnek egszsgesnek s jl
kontrollltnak kell lennie, de a testre irnyul tl sok
koncentrci hatlytalantja sajt cljt, mert az
elme az, amely elsdleges, az elejn. Amikor az
elme megnyugodott, s tbb nem hborgatja a
bels bkt (chidakash), a test j jelentst nyer, s
talaktsa egyarnt szksgess, s lehetsgess
vlik.
K: Beutaztam egsz Indit, tallkoztam sok Guruval,
s minden Yogbl tanultam egy keveset. Rendben
lv dolog mindenbe belekstolni?
M: Nem, ez csak bevezets. Tallkozni fogsz majd
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
man who will help you find your own way.
Q: I feel that the Guru of my own choice can not be
my real Guru. To be real he must come unexpected
and be irresistible.
M: Not to anticipate is best. The way you respond is
decisive.
Q: Am I the master of my responses?
M: Discrimination and dispassion practised now will
yield their fruits at the proper time. If the roots are
healthy and well-watered, the fruits are sure to be
sweet. Be pure, be alert, keep ready.
Q: Are austerities and penances of any use?
M: To meet all the vicissitudes of life is penance
enough. You need not invent trouble. To meet
cheerfully whatever life brings is all the austerity you
need.
Q: What about sacrifice?
M: Share willingly and gladly all you have with
whoever needs -- don't invent self-inflicted cruelties.
Q: What is self-surrender?
M: Accept what comes.
Q: I feel I am too weak to stand on my own legs. I
need the holy company of a Guru and of good
people. Equanimity is beyond me. To accept what
comes as it comes, frightens me. I think of my
returning to the States with horror.
M: Go back and make the best use of your
opportunities. Get your B.Sc. degree first. You can
always return to India for your Nature Cure studies.
Q: I am quite aware of the opportunities in the
States. It is the loneliness that frightens me.
M: You have always the company of your own self --
you need not feel alone. Estranged from it even in
India you will feel lonely. All happiness comes from
pleasing the self. Please it, after return to the States,
do nothing that may be unworthy of the glorious
reality within your heart and you shall be happy and
459
egy emberrel, aki segteni fog megtallni a sajt
utadat.
K: gy rzem, hogy magam vlasztotta Guru nem
lehet a valdi Gurum. Ahhoz, hogy valdi legyen,
vratlanul kell jnnie, s ellenllhatatlannak kell
lennie.
M: Legjobb nem szmtani r. A reaglsod
mikntje, ami bizonyt erej.
K: n vagyok az ura a reaglsomnak?
M: A most gyakorolt megklnbztets, s
szenvedly nlklisg a kell idben meg fogja
hozni gymlcseit. Ha a gykerek egszsgesek s
jl ntzttek, a gymlcsk biztos, hogy desek
kell legyenek. Lgy tiszta, lgy ber, llj kszen.
K: Van valamilyen haszna az nmegtartztatsnak
s vezeklsnek?
M: Elegend vezekls, ha szembenzel az let
sszes viszontagsgval. Nem kell nehzsget
kitallnod. Dersen fogadni, brmit hoz az let,
mindssze erre az nmegtartztatsra van
szksged.
K: Mi a vlemnyed a lemondsrl?
M: Ossz meg mindent, amivel rendelkezel
kszsgesen s rmmel azzal, akinek szksge
van r ne tallj ki nmagadra mrt lemondsokat.
K: Mi a vlemnyed az nfeladsrl?
M: Fogadd el, ami jn.
K: gy rzem, tl gyenge vagyok, hogy sajt
lbamon lljak. Szksgem van egy Guru, valamint
j emberek szent trsasgra. Az egykedvsg
meghaladja az ermet. Hogy gy fogadjam el ami
jn ahogy jn, megijeszt. Rmlettel gondolok r,
hogy visszatrek az llamokba.
M: Menj vissza, s hasznld ki lehetsgeidet a
lehet legjobban. Szerezd meg elszr a B. Sc.-t.
Brmikor visszatrhetsz Indiba, hogy termszet
gygyszatot tanulj.
K: Teljesen tisztban vagyok, milyen lehetsgeim
vannak az llamokban. A magnyossg az, ami
megijeszt.
M: Mindig ott lesz sajt ned trsasga nem kell
magad egyedl rezned. Tle elidegenedve mg
Indiban is magnyosnak rzed magad. Minden
boldogsg abbl szrmazik, ha az nnek rmet
szerzel. Jrj a kedvben, miutn visszatrsz az
llamokba, ne tgy semmi olyat, ami mltatlan lehet
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
remain happy. But you must seek the self and,
having found it, stay with it.
Q: Will compete solitude be of any benefit?
M: It depends on your temperament. You may work
with others and for others, alert and friendly, and
grow more fully than in solitude, which may make
you dull or leave you at the mercy of your mind's
endless chatter. Do not imagine that you can change
through effort. Violence, even turned against
yourself, as in austerities and penance, will remain
fruitless.
Q: Is there no way of making out who is realised and K: Nincs olyan mdszer, amellyel kitallhat, hogy ki
who is not? megvalsult, s ki nem az?
M: Your only proof is in yourself. If you find that you
turn to gold, it will be a sign that you have touched
the philosopher's stone. Stay with the person and
watch what happens to you. Don't ask others. Their
man may not be your Guru. A Guru may be
universal in his essence, but not in his expressions.
He may appear to be angry or greedy or over-
anxious about his Ashram or his family, and you
may be misled by appearances, while others are
not.
Q: Have I not the right to expect all-round perfection, K: Nincs igazam, ha mindenre kiterjed
both inner and outer?
M: Inner --- yes. But outer perfection depends on
circumstances, on the state of the body, personal
and social, and other innumerable factors.
Q: I was told to find a gnani so that I may learn from
him the art of achieving gnana and now I am told
that the entire approach is false, that I cannot make
out a gnani, nor can gnana be conquered by
appropriate means. It is all so confusing.
M: It is all due to your complete misunderstanding of
reality. Your mind is steeped in the habits of
evaluation and acquisition and will not admit that the
incomparable and unobtainable are waiting
timelessly within your own heart for recognition. All
you have to do is to abandon all memories and
expectations. Just keep yourself ready in utter
nakedness and nothingness.
Q: Who is to do the abandoning?
M: God will do it. Just see the need of being
abandoned. Don't resist, don't hold on to the person
you take yourself to be. Because you imagine
yourself to be a person you take the gnani to be a
person too, only somewhat different, better informed
460
a szved dics valsghoz, s boldogg vlsz, s
boldog is maradsz. De keresned kell az nt, s ha
megtalltad, maradj vele.
K: Jr a magnyos let valamilyen elnnyel?
M: Ez vrmrskletedtl fgg. Lehet, hogy msokkal
s msokrt, beren s bartsgosan dolgozol, s
sokkal teljesebben fejldsz, mint magnyosan, mely
taln eltompt, vagy kiszolgltat elmd rks
fecsegsnek. Ne kpzeld, hogy erfeszts rvn
meg tudod vltoztatni. Az erszak, mg ha magad
ellen fordtod is, mint szigorsg, s vezekls,
eredmnytelen marad.
M: Egyetlen bizonytkod sajt magadban van. Ha
megtallod a mdjt, hogy aranyra vltsd, az annak
a jele lesz, hogy megtalltad a blcsek kvt.
Maradj a szemllyel, s figyeld, mi trtnik veled. Ne
krdezz msokat. Az emberk nem lehet a te
Gurud. A Guru lehet univerzlis az lnyegt
tekintve, de megnyilvnulsban nem. Ltszhat
dhsnek, vagy kapzsinak, Ashramja, vagy csaldja
miatt aggodalmaskodnak, s lehet, hogy tged
megtveszt klssgekkel, mg msokat nem.
tkletessget vrok el, mind bels, mind kls
vonatkozsban?
M: A belsben igen. De a kls tkletessg fgg
a krlmnyektl, a test llapottl, szemlyes,
szocilis, s szmtalan egyb tnyeztl.
K: Azt hallottam, keresnem kell egy gnanit, akitl
megtanulhatom a gnana elrsnek a mvszett,
most pedig azt hallom, hogy az egsz megkzelts
hamis, mert nem tudom felismerni a gnanit, s a
gnant sem tudom alkalmas eszkzkkel
meghdtani. Olyan zavaros mindez.
M: Ez amiatt van, hogy teljesen flrerted a
valsgot. Elmdet a kirtkels s szerzs
szoksai itatjk t, s nem fogadja el, hogy a
pratlan, s elrhetetlen idtlen idk ta a
szvedben vr a felismersre. Mindssze annyit kell
tenned, hogy feladod minden emlkedet s
elvrsodat. Csak lgy kszen a legteljesebb
meztelensgben, s jelentktelensgben.
K: Kinek kell feladnia?
M: Isten fogja azt megtenni. Csak lsd a felads
szksgessgt. Ne llj ellen, ne ragaszkodj a
szemlyhez, akinek tartod magad. Mivel szemlynek
kpzeled magad, a gnanit is szemlynek kpzeled,
csak valamikppen msnak, aki jobban tjkozott,
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
and more powerful. You may say that he is eternally
conscious and happy, but it is far from expressing
the whole truth. Don't trust definitions and
descriptions -- they are grossly misleading.
Q: Unless I am told what to do and how to do it, I
feel lost.
M: By all means do feel lost. As long as you feel
competent and confident, reality is beyond your
reach. Unless you accept inner adventure as a way
of life, discovery will not come to you.
Q: Discovery of what?
M: Of the centre of your being, which is free of all
directions, all means and ends.
Q: Be all, know all, have all?
M: Be nothing, know nothing, have nothing. This is
the only life worth living, the only happiness worth
having.
Q: I may admit that the goal is beyond my
comprehension. Let me know the way at least.
M: You must find your own way. Unless you find it
yourself it will not be your own way and will take you
nowhere. Earnestly live your truth as you have found
it -- act on the little you have understood. It is
earnestness that will take you through, not
cleverness -- your own or another's.
Q: I am afraid of mistakes. So many things I tried --
nothing came out of them.
M: You gave too little of yourself, you were merely
curious, not earnest.
Q: I don't know any better.
M: At least that much you know. Knowing them to be
superficial, give no value to your experiences, forget
them as soon as they are over. Live a clean, selfless
life, that is all.
Q: Is morality so important?
M: Don't cheat, don't hurt -- is it not important?
Above all you need inner peace -- which demands
harmony between the inner and the outer. Do what
you believe in and believe in what you do. All else is
a waste of energy and time.
461
s sokkal hatkonyabb. Mondogatod, hogy rkk
tudatos, s boldog, de ez messze ll a teljes igazsg
kifejezstl. Ne definciknak, s lersoknak higgy
azok durvn flrevezetek.
K: Ha nem mondod el, mit kell tenni, s hogyan kell
azt tenni, elveszettnek rzem magam.
M: Felttlenl, rezd magad elveszettnek. Amg gy
rzed, hogy hozzrt, s magabiztos vagy, a
valsg meghaladja megrtsedet. Hacsak el nem
fogadod letmdknt a bels kalandot, a felfedezst
nem fogod megtenni.
K: Minek a felfedezst?
M: Lted kzpontjt, amely mentes minden
irnytstl, minden szndktl, s clkitzstl.
K: Lgy minden, tudj mindent, birtokolj mindent?
M: Lgy semmi, ne tudj semmit, ne birtokolj semmit.
Ez az egyetlen let, amit rtelme van lni, az
egyetlen boldogsg, amit rdemes birtokolni.
K: Beltom, a cl meghaladja felfogkpessgemet.
Hagy ismerjem az utat, legalbb.
M: Neked kell megtallnod sajt utadat. Hacsak
nem te magad tallod meg azt, nem lesz a te sajt
utad, s nem fog vezetni tged sehov. Komolyan
ld meg igazsgodat, ahogy azt megtalltad
cselekedj azon kevs szerint, amit megrtettl. A
komolysg az, ami ennek sorn segteni fog, nem az
okossg sem a te sajtod, sem a msok.
K: Flek a tvedsektl. Oly sok dolgot prbltam
sehov nem vezettek.
M: Tl keveset adtl nmagadbl, kvncsi voltl
csupn, nem komoly.
K: Nem tudom jobban.
M: Legalbb ennyit tudsz. Felsznesnek ismervn
azokat, ne rszestsd figyelmedben tapasztalataidat,
felejtsd el ket, amint elmlnak. lj egy tiszta,
ntelen letet, ez minden.
K: Olyan fontos az erklcsisg?
M: Ne csalj, ne okozz fjdalmat ez nem fontos?
Mindenek fltt lelki bkre van szksged ami
harmnit kvn a bels s a kls kztt. Tedd,
amiben hiszel, s higgy abban, amit teszel. Minden
ms energia- s id pazarls.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
97. Mind and the World are not Separate
Questioner: I see here pictures of several saints
and I am told that they are your spiritual ancestors.
Who are they and how did it all begin?
Maharaj: We are called collectively the 'Nine
Masters'. The legend says that our first teacher was
Rishi Dattatreya, the great incarnation of the Trinity
of Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva. Even the 'Nine
Masters' (Navnath) are mythological.
Q: What is the peculiarity of their teaching?
M: Its simplicity, both in theory and practice.
Q: How does one become a Navnath? By initiation
or by succession?
M: Neither. The Nine Masters' tradition, Navnath
Parampara, is like a river -- it flows into the ocean of
reality and whoever enters it is carried along.
Q: Does it imply acceptance by a living master
belonging to the same tradition?
M: Those who practise the sadhana of focussing
their minds on I am' may feel related to others who
have followed the same sadhana and succeeded.
They may decide to verbalise their sense of kinship
by calling themselves Navnaths. It gives them the
pleasure of belonging to an established tradition.
Q: Do they in any way benefit by joining?
M: The circle of satsang, the 'company of saints',
expands in numbers as time passes.
Q: Do they get hold thereby of a source of power
and grace from which they would have been barred
otherwise?
M: Power and grace are for all and for the asking.
Giving oneself a particular name does not help. Call
yourself by any name -- as long as you are intensely
mindful of yourself, the accumulated obstacles to
self-knowledge are bound to be swept away.
Q: If I like your teaching and accept your guidance,
can I call myself a Navnath?
M: Please your word-addicted mind. The name will
not change you. At best it may remind you to
behave. There is a succession of Gurus and their
disciples, who in turn train more disciples and thus
the line is maintained. But the continuity of tradition
is informal and voluntary. It is like a family name, but
here the family is spiritual.
462
97. Az elme s a vilg nem klnllk
Krdez: Kpeket ltok itt klnbz szentekrl, s
gy hallottam, hogy k a te spiritulis eldeid. Kik
k, s hogyan kezddtt mindez?
Maharaj: Kzs nevk a Kilenc Mester. gy szl a
legenda, hogy els tantnk Rishi Dattatreya volt,
Brahma, Vishnu s Shiva szenthromsgnak nagy
inkarncija. A Kilenc Mester (Navnath) mitolgiai
alakok is egyben.
K: Mi jellemzi tantsukat?
M: Egyszersg, mind elmletben, mind
gyakorlatban.
K: Hogyan vlhat valakibl Navnath? Beavats,
vagy utdls rvn?
M: Sehogy. A Kilenc Mester hagyomny, a Navnath
Parampara akr egy foly a valsg cenjba
folyik, brki bele lp, azt magval ragadja.
K: Magban foglal egy ugyanezen hagyomnyhoz
tartoz, l mester ltali elfogadst?
M: Akik elmjk n vagyok-ra fkuszlsnak a
sadhanjt gyakoroljk, azok rokonnak rezhetik
magukat, akik ugyanezen sadhant kvettk, s
sikerrel jrtak. Dnthetnek gy, hogy szavakba
ntve rokonsg rzsket, Navnathnak nevezik
magukat. rmet okoz nekik egy elfogadott
hagyomnyhoz val tartozs.
K: Jr valamilyen elnnyel a csatlakozs?
M: A satsang krnek, a szentek kzssg-nek, a
ltszma nvekszik, az id mlsval.
K: Befolysuk alatt tartjk ez ltal az er, s a
kegyelem forrst, amelytl elzrhatnak msokat?
M: Az er s kegyelem mindenki, csak krni kell.
Ha egy klnleges nevet adsz nmagadnak, az nem
segt. Hvd magad brmilyen nven amg ers
figyelemmel vagy nmagad irnt, az nismeret
felhalmozott akadlyainak a flresprse kt le.
K: Ha kedvelem tantsodat, s elfogadom
vezetsedet, nevezhetem-e magam Navnathnak?
M: Szerezz rmet sz-fgg elmdnek. A nv nem
fog tged megvltoztatni. Legjobb esetben
emlkeztetni tud, hogyan viselkedj. Van egyfajta
egymsra kvetkezs Guruk s tantvnyaik kztt,
akik pedig tbb tantvnyt nevelnek, s gy a
tantvnyi lncot fenntartjk. De a hagyomny
folytonossga bizalmas, s szndkos. Olyan ez,
mint egy csaldi nv, de itt a csald spiritulis.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok

Q: Do you have to realise to join the Sampradaya? K: Megvalsultnak kell lenned, hogy csatlakozz a
Sampradayahoz?

M: The Navnath Sampradaya is only a tradition, a
way of teaching and practice. It does not denote a
level of consciousness. If you accept a Navnath
Sampradaya teacher as your Guru, you join his
Sampradaya. Usually you receive a token of his
grace -- a look, a touch, or a word, sometimes a
vivid dream or a strong remembrance. Sometimes
the only sign of grace is a significant and rapid
change in character and behaviour.
M: A Navnath Sampradaya hagyomny csupn, egy
tantsi s gyakorlsi md. Nem jelent tudatossgi
szintet. Ha egy Navnath Sampradaya tantt
Gurudknt fogadsz el, akkor csatlakozol az
Sampradayajhoz. Rendszerint rszeslsz
kegyelmnek egy jelkpben amely egy nzs,
egy rints, egy sz, nha egy sznes lom, vagy
egy ers emlkezet. Nha a kegyelem egyetlen jele,
hogy a jellemben, s viselkedsben jelents s
gyors vltozs kvetkezik be.

Q: I know you now for some years and I meet you K: Ismerlek mr nhny ve, s rendszeresen
regularly. The thought of you is never far from my ltogatlak. Gondolataid soha nem lltak messze
mind. Does it make me belong to your Sampradaya? nzeteimtl. Ez azt jelenti, hogy n a Te
Sampradaydhoz tartozom?

M: Your belonging is a matter of your own feeling M: A hovatartozsod a te sajt rzseidtl s

and conviction. After all, it is all verbal and formal. In
reality there is neither Guru nor disciple, neither
theory nor practice, neither ignorance nor
realisation. It all depends on what you take yourself
to be. Know yourself correctly. There is no substitute
to self-knowledge.
meggyzdsedtl fgg. Mindent egybevetve,
mindez verblis, s formlis. A valsgban nincs
sem Guru, sem tantvny, sem elmlet, sem
gyakorlat, sem tudatlansg, sem megvalsuls.
Minden azon mlik, hogy te minek tartod magad.
Ismerd nmagad helyesen. Semmi nem helyettesti
az nismeretet.

Q: What proof will I have that I know myself K: Milyen bizonytkot fogok kapni, ha helyesen
correctly? ismerem nmagam?

M: You need no proofs. The experience is unique
and unmistakable. It will dawn on you suddenly,
when the obstacles are removed to some extent. It
is like a frayed rope snapping. Yours is to work at
the strands. The break is bound to happen. It can be
delayed, but not prevented.
M: Nincs szksged bizonytkokra. A tapasztalat
egyedi, s flrerthetetlen. Hirtelen fog rd virradni,
mikor az akadlyok bizonyos fokig eltvoltsra
kerlnek. Ez a kopott ktl elpattanshoz hasonl.
Neked a szlakkal van munkd. A szakadsnak be
kell kvetkeznie. Ksleltethet, de meg nem
elzhet.

Q: I am confused by your denial of causality. Does it K: ssze vagyok zavarodva, hogy ktsgbe vonod
mean that none is responsible for the world as it is? az oksgot. Ez azt jelenti, hogy senki nem felels
azrt, hogy a vilg olyan, amilyen?

M: The idea of responsibility is in your mind. You
think there must be something or somebody solely
responsible for all that happens. There is a
contradiction between a multiple universe and a
single cause. Either one or the other must be false.
Or both. As I see it, it is all day-dreaming. There is
no reality in ideas. The fact is that without you,
neither the universe nor its cause could have come
into being.
M: A felelssg ideja a te elmdben van. Te
gondolod, kell, hogy legyen valami, vagy valaki, aki
teljes mrtkben felels mindenrt, ami trtnik.
Ellentmonds van az sszetett univerzum, s az
egyetlen ok kztt. Vagy az egyiknek, vagy a
msiknak hamisnak kell lennie. Vagy mindkettnek.
Megltsom szerint mindez lmodozs. Nincs
realitsa az ideknak. A tny az, hogy nlkled sem
az univerzum, sem annak az oka nem tudna
ltrejnni.

Q: I cannot make out whether I am the creature or K: Nem tudom kibogozni, vajon teremtmnye, vagy
the creator of the universe. teremtje vagyok-e az univerzumnak.

M: 'I am' is an ever-present fact, while 'I am created' M: Az n vagyok mindig jelenlev tny, mg az n
is an idea. Neither God nor the universe have come teremtmny vagyok egy idea. Sem Isten, sem az

463
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
to tell you that they have created you. The mind
obsessed by the idea of causality invents creation
and then wonders 'who is the creator?' The mind
itself is the creator. Even this is not quite true, for the
created and its creator are one. The mind and the
world are not separate. Do understand that what you
think to be the world is your own mind.
Q: Is there a world beyond, or outside the mind?
M: All space and time are in the mind. Where will
you locate a supramental world? There are many
levels of the mind and each projects its own version,
yet all are in the mind and created by the mind.
Q: What is your attitude to sin? How do you look at a
sinner, somebody who breaks the law, inner or
outer? Do you want him to change or you just pity
him? Or, are you indifferent to him because of his
sins?
M: I know no sin, nor sinner. Your distinction and
valuation do not bind me. Everybody behaves
according to his nature. It cannot be helped, nor
need it be regretted.
Q: Others suffer.
M: Life lives on life. In nature the process is
compulsory, in society it should be voluntary. There
can be no life without sacrifice. A sinner refuses to
sacrifice and invites death. This is as it is, and gives
no cause for condemnation or pity.
Q: Surely you feel at least compassion when you
see a man steeped in sin.
M: Yes, I feel I am that man and his sins are my
sins.
Q: Right, and what next?
M: By my becoming one with him he becomes one
with me. It is not a conscious process, it happens
entirely by itself. None of us can help it. What needs
changing shall change anyhow; enough to know
oneself as one is, here and now. Intense and
methodical investigation into one's mind is Yoga.
Q: What about the chains of destiny forged by sin?
M: When ignorance, the mother of sin, dissolves,
destiny, the compulsion to sin again, ceases.
464
univerzum nem jn ide, hogy azt mondja neked, k
teremtettek tged. Az oksg idejval rgeszms
elme kiagyalja a teremtst, majd azon tndik, hogy
ki a teremt? Maga az elme a teremt. De mg ez
sem teljesen igaz, mert a teremtett s a teremt
egyek. Az elme s a vilg nem klnllak. rtsd
meg, hogy amit a vilgnak gondolsz, az a te sajt
elmd.
K: Van vilg az elmn tl, vagy azon kvl?
M: Minden tr s id az elmben van. Hov
helyeznl egy elme-fltti vilgot? Az elmnek sok
szintje van, s mindegyik a sajt vltozatt vetti ki,
mgis mindegyik az elmben van, s mindegyiket az
elme hozta ltre.
K: Mi a hozzllsod a bnhz? Hogyan tekintesz a
bnsre, aki megsrti a trvnyt, legyen az kls,
vagy bels? Meg akarod t vltoztatni, vagy csak
sznalommal vagy irnta? Vagy kzmbs vagy
irnta, az bnei miatt?
M: Nem ismerek sem bnt, sem bnst. A te
megklnbztetsed, s rtkelsed nem ktelez
rm nzve. Mindenki a sajt termszetnek
megfelelen viselkedik. Nem lehet segteni, s
sajnlni sem kell.
K: Msok szenvednek.
M: Az let leten l. A termszetben szksgszer a
folyamat, a trsadalomban nkntesnek kell, lennie.
Nem lehet let ldozat nlkl. A bns visszautastja
az ldozatot, s hallt provokl. Ez gy van, ahogy
van, s nem ad okot rosszallsra, vagy sajnlatra.
K: Bizonyra rzel sznalmat legalbb, amikor ltsz
valakit a bnbe belemerlni.
M: Igen, gy rzem, hogy n vagyok az az ember,
s az bne az n bnm.
K: Rendben, s aztn mi lesz?
M: Azzal, hogy n eggy vlok vele, eggy vlik
nvelem. Ez nem tudatos folyamat, teljesen magtl
trtnik. Egyiknk sem tudja segteni. Aminek
vltoznia kell, az vltozni fog, valamikppen; elg,
ha az ember annak ismeri nmagt ami, itt s most.
Az ember elmjnek intenzv s mdszeres kutatsa
a Yoga.
K: Mi a vlemnyed sors lncairl, amit a bn
kovcsol?
M: Amikor a tudatlansg, a bn szlanyja,
szertefoszlik, a sors, a bnre val knyszer, szintn
megsznik.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: There are retributions to make. K: Vannak bntetsek, amiket alkalmazni lehet.

M: With ignorance coming to an end all comes to an M: Amikor a tudatlansg vget r, minden vget r.
end. Things are then seen as they are and they are A dolgok akkor annak ltszanak, amik, s azok jk.
good.

Q: If a sinner, a breaker of the law, comes before K: Ha egy bns, egy trvnysrt eld jrul, s a
you and asks for your grace, what will be your kegyelmedet kri, mit fogsz vlaszolni?
response?

M: He will get what he asks for. M: Meg fogja kapni, amit kr.

Q: In spite of being a very bad man? K: Annak ellenre, hogy nagyon rossz ember?

M: I know no bad people, I only know myself. I see
no saints nor sinners, only living beings. I do not
hand out grace. There is nothing I can give, or deny,
which you do not have already in equal measure.
Just be aware of your riches and make full use of
them. As long as you imagine that you need my
grace, you will be at my door begging for it.
My begging for grace from you would make as little
sense. We are not separate, the real is common.
M: n nem ismerek rossz embereket, n csak
nmagamat ismerem. Nem ltok sem szenteket,
sem bnsket, csak llnyeket. Nem osztok
kegyelmet. Semmi olyat nem tudok adni, vagy
megtagadni, amivel ne rendelkeznl mr, azonos
mrtkben. Csak lgy tudatban gazdagsgodnak,
s hasznld azt ki teljesen. Amg azt kpzeled, hogy
szksged van a kegyelmemre, az ajtmhoz fogsz
jrulni, hogy koldulj rte.
Ha n koldulnk kegyelmet tled, annak ugyan
olyan kevss ltnd rtelmt. Nem vagyunk
elklnltek, a valsg kzs.

Q: A mother comes to you with a tale of woe. Her K: Eljn hozzd egy anya, aki csapsok sort
only son has taken to drugs and sex and is going szenvedte el. Egyetlen fia rszokott a kbtszerre,
from bad to worse. She is asking for your grace. s a szexre, s a helyzet egyre rosszabb. A
What shall be your response? kegyelmedet kri. Mit fogsz vlaszolni?

M: Probably I shall hear myself telling her that all will M: Valsznleg hallani fogom magamat azt
be well. mondani neki, hogy minden jra fordul.

Q: That's all? K: Ennyi az egsz?

M: That's all. What more do you expect? M: Ennyi az egsz. Mi mst vrnl?

Q: But will the son of the woman change? K: De az asszonynak a fia meg fog-e vltozni?

M: He may or he may not. M: Lehet hogy igen, lehet, hogy nem.

Q: The people who collect round you, and who know K: Azok az emberek, akik krd gyltek, s akik mr
you for many years, maintain that when you say 'it vek ta ismernek tanstjk, hogy amikor azt
will be all right' it invariably happens as you say. mondod minden jra fordul, akkor az mindig gy
trtnik, ahogyan mondod.

M: You may as well say that it is the mother's heart M: Azt is mondhatod tovbb, hogy az anya szve
that saved the child. For everything there are megmentette a gyermeket. Mert mindennek
innumerable causes. megszmllhatatlan oka van.

Q: I am told that the man who wants nothing for K: Azt hallottam, hogy az az ember, aki semmit nem
himself is all-powerful. The entire universe is at his akar nmaga szmra, az korltlan hatalm. Az
disposal. egsz univerzum az rendelkezsre ll.

M: If you believe so, act on it. Abandon every M: Ha gy hiszed, cselekedj ennek megfelelen.
personal desire and use the power thus saved for Vess el minden szemlyes vgyat, s az gy
changing the world. megtakartott energidat hasznld a vilg

465
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: All the Buddhas and Rishis have not succeeded
in changing the world.
M: The world does not yield to changing. By its very
nature it is painful and transient. See it as it is and
divest yourself of all desire and fear. When the world
does not hold and bind you, it becomes an abode of
joy and beauty. You can be happy in the world only
when you are free of it.
Q: What is right and what is wrong?
M: Generally, what causes suffering is wrong and
what removes it, is right. The body and the mind are
limited and therefore vulnerable; they need
protection which gives rise to fear. As long as you
identify yourself with them you are bound to suffer;
realise your independence and remain happy. I tell
you, this is the secret of happiness. To believe that
you depend on things and people for happiness is
due to ignorance of your true nature; to know that
you need nothing to be happy, except self-
knowledge, is wisdom.
Q: What comes first, being or desire?
M: With being arising in consciousness, the ideas of
what you are arise in your mind as well as what you
should be. This brings forth desire and action and
the process of becoming begins. Becoming has,
apparently, no beginning and no end, for it restarts
every moment. With the cessation of imagination
and desire, becoming ceases and the being this or
that merges into pure being, which is not
describable, only experienceable.
The world appears to you so overwhelmingly real,
because you think of it all the time; cease thinking of
it and it will dissolve into thin mist. You need not
forget; when desire and fear end, bondage also
ends. It is the emotional involvement, the pattern of
likes and dislikes which we call character and
temperament, that create the bondage.
Q: Without desire and fear what motive is there for
action?
M: None, unless you consider love of life, of
righteousness, of beauty, motive enough. Do not be
afraid of freedom from desire and fear. It enables
you to live a life so different from all you know, so
much more intense and interesting, that, truly, by
losing all you gain all.
466
megvltoztatsra.
K: Egyetlen Buddhnak s Rishinek sem sikerlt
megvltoztatnia a vilgot.
M: A vilg nem engedi, hogy megvltoztassk.
Valdi termszetnl fogva fjdalmas, s mland.
Lsd annak, ami, s foszd meg nmagad minden
vgytl s flelemtl. Amikor a vilg nem gtol s
nem kt tged, akkor az rm s szpsg
tartzkodsi helyv vlik. Csak akkor lehetsz
boldog a vilgban, ha szabad vagy tle.
K: Mi helyes, s mi helytelen?
M: ltalban ami szenvedst okoz, az helytelen, s
ami megsznteti azt, az helyes. A test s az elme
korltozottak, s ezrt sebezhetk; vdelemre van
szksgk, ami flelmet idz el. Amg velk
azonostod nmagad, addig szenveds kttt vagy;
realizld a fggetlensgedet, s maradj boldog. n
mondom neked, hogy ez boldogsg titka. Valdi
termszeteddel kapcsolatos tudatlansgod miatt
hiszed, hogy boldogsgod dolgoktl s emberektl
fgg; tudni, hogy nincs szksged semmire, hogy
boldog lgy, az nismeretet kivve blcsessg.
K: Mi van elbb, a ltezs vagy a vgy?
M: A ltezs tudatossgban val megjelensvel a
mi vagy idei is megjelennek az elmdben, valamint,
hogy minek kell lenned. Ez szli a vgyat, s beindul
a cselekvs s a valamiv vls folyamata. A
valamiv vlsnak ltszlag nincs se kezdete, se
vge, mert minden pillanatban jra indul. A
kpzelds s a vgy megszntetsvel megsznik
a valamiv vls, s az ekknt, vagy akknt val
ltezs beleolvad a tiszta ltezsbe, amely nem
lerhat, csak tapasztalhat.
A vilg elspr erej valsgnak tnik szmodra,
mert llandan r gondolsz; szntesd be a
rgondolst, s ritka kdknt szerte fog foszlani.
Nem kell elfelejtened, amikor a vgy s a flelem
vget r, a ktelknek is vge. Az rzelmi
belegabalyods, a tetszsek s nem tetszsek
mintja, amit karakternek s temperamentumnak
neveznk, az hozza ltre a ktelket.
K: Vgy s flelem nlkl mi motivl cselekvsre?
M: Semmi, hacsak az let, az egyenessg, a
szpsg szeretett nem tekinted, ami elegend
motvum. Ne flj a vgytl s a flelemtl val
szabadsgtl. Az tesz lehetv szmodra egy olyan
letet, amely annyira klnbzik minden ismerttl,
olyannyira intenzv, s rdekes, hogy, ha ltszlag
minden elvesztesz is, valjban mindent
megnyersz.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: Since you count your spiritual ancestry from Rishi K: Miutn spiritulisan Rishi Dattatreytl
Dattatreya, are we right in believing that you and all szrmaztatod magad, igazunk van, ha azt hisszk,
your predecessors are reincarnations of the Rishi? hogy te, s minden eldd a Rishi reinkarncija?
M: You may believe in whatever you like and if you
act on your belief, you will get the fruits of it; but to
me it has no importance. I am what I am and this is
enough for me. I have no desire to identify myself
with anybody, however illustrious. Nor do I feel the
need to take myths for reality. I am only interested in
ignorance and the freedom from ignorance. The
proper role of a Guru is to dispel ignorance in the
hearts and minds of his disciples. Once the disciple
has understood, the confirming action is up to him.
Nobody can act for another. And if he does not act
rightly, it only means that he has not understood and
that the Guru's work is not over.
Q: There must be some hopeless cases too?
M: None is hopeless. Obstacles can be overcome.
What life cannot mend, death will end, but the Guru
cannot fail.
Q: What gives you the assurance?
M: The Guru and man's inner reality are really one
and work together towards the same goal -- the
redemption and salvation of the mind. They cannot
fail. Out of the very boulders that obstruct them they
build their bridges. Consciousness is not the whole
of being -- there are other levels on which man is
much more co-operative. The Guru is at home on all
levels and his energy and patience are
inexhaustible.
Q: You keep on telling me that I am dreaming and
that it is high time I should wake up. How does it
happen that the Maharaj, who has come to me in my
dreams, has not succeeded in waking me up? He
keeps on urging and reminding, but the dream
continues.
M: It is because you have not really understood that
you are dreaming. This is the essence of bondage --
the mixing of the real with unreal. In your present
state only the sense 'I am' refers to reality; the 'what'
and the 'how I am' are illusions imposed by destiny,
or accident.
Q: When did the dream begin?
M: It appears to be beginningless, but in fact it is
only now. From moment to moment you are
467
M: Hihettek, amit akartok, s ha hitetek szerint
cselekszetek, le fogjtok aratni annak gymlcseit;
de szmomra ennek nincs jelentsge. Vagyok, aki
vagyok, s ez elegend szmomra. Nem vgyom
azonosulni senkivel, legyen az brmilyen illusztris
szemly. Annak sem rzem szksgt, hogy
mtosznak tekintstek a valsg. Engem csak a
tudatlansg rdekel, s a tudatlansgtl val
megszabaduls. A Guru valdi szerepe, hogy
eloszlassa a tudatlansgot a tantvnyok szvben,
s elmjben. Amint a tantvny ezt megrtette, a
megerst cselekvs rajta mlik. Senki nem tud
ms helyett cselekedni. s ha nem cselekszik
helyesen, az csak annyit jelent, hogy mg nem jutott
el a megrtsig, s hogy a Guru munkja mg nem
rt vget.
K: Remnytelen eseteknek is kell lennik?
M: Senki nem remnytelen. Az akadlyokon fell
lehet kerekedni. Amit az let nem tud helyre hozni,
azt a hall fogja befejezni, de a Guru nem tud
hibzni.
K: Mi adja neked a bizonyossgot?
M: A Guru, s az ember bels valsga valjban
egyek, s egytt, ugyanazon clrt dolgoznak az
elme kijavtsrt s megvltsrt. Nem tudnak
hibzni. Valjban az ket elrekeszt kvekbl
ptik meg hdjaikat. A tudatossg nem a teljes
ltezs vannak tovbbi szintek, amelyeken az
ember sokkal egyttmkdbb. A Guru minden
szinten otthon van, s energija, trelme
kimerthetetlen.
K: Folyton azt mondod, hogy lmodok, s hogy
legfbb ideje felbredni. Hogy lehet, hogy a
Maharaj, aki lmaimban megltogatott, nem jrt
sikerrel felbresztsem tern? Folyton sztkl s
emlkeztet, de az lom folytatdik.
M: Ez azrt van, mert valjban nem rtetted meg,
hogy lmodsz. Ez a ktttsg lnyege a
valsgnak a valtlannal val sszekeveredse.
Jelen llapotodban csak az n vagyok rzse
vonatkozik a valsgra; a mi vagyok, s a mi
mdon vagyok, a sors, vagy a vletlen ltal rrakott
illzik.
K: Mikor kezddtt az lom?
M: Kezdetnlklinek ltszik, de tnylegesen csak
most van. Pillanatrl pillanatra jrakezded. Amint
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
renewing it. Once you have seen that you are
dreaming, you shall wake up. But you do not see,
because you want the dream to continue. A day will
come when you will long for the ending of the
dream, with all your heart and mind, and be willing to
pay any price; the price will be dispassion and
detachment, the loss of interest in the dream itself.
Q: How helpless I am. As long as the dream of
existence lasts, I want it to continue. As long as I
want it to continue, it will last.
M: Wanting it to continue is not inevitable. See
clearly your condition, your very clarity will release
you.
Q: As long as I am with you, all you say seems
pretty obvious; but as soon as I am away from you I
run about restless and anxious.
M: You need not keep away from me, in your mind
at least. But your mind is after the world's welfare.
Q: The world is full of troubles, no wonder my mind
too is full of them.
M: Was there ever a world without troubles? Your
being as a person depends on violence to others.
Your very body is a battlefield, full of the dead and
dying. Existence implies violence.
Q: As a body -- yes. As a human being -- definitely
no. For humanity non-violence is the law of life and
violence of death.
M: There is little of non-violence in nature.
Q: God and nature are not human and need not be
humane. I am concerned with man alone. To be
human I must be compassionate absolutely.
M: Do you realise that as long as you have a self to
defend, you must be violent?
Q: I do. To be truly human I must be self-less. As
long as I am selfish, I am sub-human, a humanoid
only.
M: So, we are all sub-human and only a few are
human. Few or many, it is again 'clarity and charity'
that make us human. The sub-human -- the
'humanoids' -- are dominated by tamas and rajas
and the humans by sattva. Clarity and charity is
sattva as it affects mind and action. But the real is
beyond sattva. Since I have known you, you seem to
be always after helping the world. How much did you
help?
468
megrtetted, hogy alszol, fel fogsz bredni. De nem
rted meg, mert tovbb akarsz lmodni. Egy nap
teljes szveddel s elmddel svrogni fogsz az
lom befejezsre, s ksz leszel brmi rat
megfizetni; az r prtatlansg, s elfogulatlansg
lesz, az rdeklds elvesztse magval az lommal
szemben.
K: Milyen gymoltalan vagyok. Amg a ltezs lma
fennmarad, folytatni akarom azt. Amg folytatni
akarom, addig fennmarad.
M: Nem szksgszer, hogy folytatni akard.
Vilgosan rtsd meg az llapotodat, valjban a
vilgossg fog megszabadtani.
K: Amg itt vagyok, minden nagyon nyilvnvalnak
ltszik; de amint tvolra kerlk tled, nyugtalanul,
s gondterhelten ltok-futok.
M: Nem kell tvolra kerlnd tlem, legalbbis
elmdben. De a te elmd a vilg jltvel
foglalkozik.
K: A vilg tele van gondokkal, nem csoda, hogy
elmm is tele van velk.
M: Volt-e nehzsgek hjn a vilg valaha is?
Szemlyknt val ltezsed msok erszakjnak
van alrendelve. Tested valjban holtakkal, s
haldoklssal teli csatatr. A ltezs erszakot jelent.
K: Ha a testet tekintjk igen. Ha az emberi lnyt
hatrozottan nem. Az emberisg szempontjbl az
erszakmentessg az let, s az erszak a hall
trvnye.
M: A termszetben nem sok erszakmentessg van.
K: Isten s termszet nem emberek, s nem kell
embersgesnek lennik. n egyedl az emberrel
trdm. Ahhoz, hogy ember legyek, felttlen egytt
rznek kell lennem.
M: Tudatban vagy, hogy amg meg kell vdened
nmagad, addig erszakosnak kell lenned?
K: Igen. Hogy igaz ember legyek, nzetlennek kell
lennem. Amg nz vagyok, addig emberi alatti,
emberszabs vagyok csupn.
M: Valban, mind ember alattiak vagyunk, s csak
nhnyan vagyunk emberek. Kevs, vagy sok, ismt
a tisztasg s knyrletessg az, ami emberr
tesz bennnket. Az ember alattiakat az
emberszabsakat a tamas s rajas uralja, az
embereket pedig a sattva. Tisztasg s
knyrletessg sattvaknt hat az elmre s a
cselekvsre. De a valsg meghaladja a sattvt.
Mita ismerlek, gy ltom, mindig a vilg segtsre
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: Not a bit. Neither the world has changed, nor
have I. But the world suffers and I suffer along with
it. To struggle against suffering is a natural reaction.
And what is civilization and culture, philosophy and
religion, but a revolt against suffering. Evil and the
ending of evil -- is it not your own main
preoccupation? You may call it ignorance -- it comes
to the same.
M: Well, words do not matter, nor does it matter in
what shape you are just now. Names and shapes
change incessantly. Know yourself to be the
changeless witness of the changeful mind. That is
enough.
98. Freedom from Self-identification
Maharaj: Can you sit on the floor? Do you need a
pillow? Have you any questions to ask? Not that you
need to ask, you can as well be quiet. To be, just be,
is important. You need not ask anything, nor do
anything. Such apparently lazy way of spending time
is highly regarded in India. It means that for the time
being you are free from the obsession with 'what
next'. When you are not in a hurry and the mind is
free from anxieties, it becomes quiet and in the
silence something may be heard which is ordinarily
too fine and subtle for perception. The mind must be
open and quiet to see. What we are trying to do here
is to bring our minds into the right state for
understanding what is real.
Questioner: How do we learn to cut out worries?
M: You need not worry about your worries. Just be.
Do not try to be quiet; do not make 'being quiet' into
a task to be performed. Don't be restless about
'being quiet', miserable about 'being happy'. Just be
aware that you are and remain aware -- don't say:
'yes, I am; what next?' There is no 'next' in 'I am'. It
is a timeless state.
Q: If it is a timeless state, it will assert itself anyhow.
M: You are what you are, timelessly, but of what use
is it to you unless you know it and act on it? Your
begging bowl may be of pure gold, but as long as
you do not know it, you are a pauper. You must
know your inner worth and trust it and express it in
the daily sacrifice of desire and fear.
469
vgyakoztl. Mennyire tudtad segteni?
K: Egyltalban nem. Sem a vilg nem vltozott,
sem n. De a vilg szenved, s n vele egytt
szenvedek. A szenveds elleni kzdelem
termszetes reakci. s mi a civilizci, a kultra, a
filozfia, s a valls, ha nem lzads a szenveds
ellen? A gonosz, s vget vetni a gonosznak nem
ez a f elfoglaltsgod? Nevezheted tudatlansgnak
ugyanoda vezet.
M: Nos, a szavak nem szmtanak, az sem szmt,
hogy pp most mi a formd. Nevek s formk
szakadatlanul vltoznak. Ismerd nmagad a
vltozkony elme vltozhatatlan tanjnak. Ez elg.
98. nazonoststl val mentessg
Maharaj: Tudsz a padln lni? Kell egy prna? Van
krdsed? Nem muszj krdezned, maradhatsz
csendben is. Lenni, csak lenni fontos. Nem kell
krdezned semmit, csinlnod sem kell semmit. Az
ilyen ltszlag semmittev idtltst roppantul
tisztelik Indiban. Ez azt jelenti, hogy ez id alatt
mentes vagy a mi kvetkezik zaklatottsgtl.
Amikor nem sietsz, s az elme nyugtalansgtl
mentes, akkor az elme elcsendesedik, s a
csendben meg lehet hallani valamit, ami egybknt
tl finom, s szubtilis ahhoz, hogy szlelni lehessen.
Az elmnek nyitottnak, s csendesnek kell lennie,
hogy lss. Mi itt arra treksznk, hogy elmnket a
megfelel llapotba hozzuk a valsg
megrtshez.
Krdez: Hogyan tanuljuk meg kiiktatni a
nyugtalankodst?
M: Nem kell gondot csinlnod a nyugtalankodsbl.
Csak legyl. Ne trekedj arra, hogy csendes legyl;
ne tedd vgrehajtand feladatt a csendben levst.
Ne legyl nyugtalan a csendben levs miatt,
szerencstlen a boldogsgban lt miatt. Csak lgy
tudatban, hogy vagy, s maradj tudatos ne
mondd: igen, n vagyok; mi kvetkezik?. Nincs
kvetkezik az n vagyok-ban. Mert ez egy idtlen
llapot.
K: Ha idtlen llapot, akkor ki fogja jelenteni
nmagt valamikppen.
M: Az vagy, ami vagy, idtlenl, de mi a haszna,
hacsak nem ismered, s hatssal vagy r? Lehet,
hogy a koldul tlad sznaranybl van, de amg nem
tudsz errl, koldus vagy. Meg kell ismerned bels
rtkedet, s hinned kell benne, s vgyrl s
flelemrl val mindennapi lemondsban kell azt
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
kifejezned.

Q: If I know myself, shall I not desire and fear? K: Ha ismerem nmagam, nem fogok vgyni s
flni?

M: For some time the mental habits may linger in
spite of the new vision, the habit of longing for the
known past and fearing the unknown future. When
you know these are of the mind only, you can go
beyond them. As long as you have all sorts of ideas
about yourself, you know yourself through the mist
of these ideas; to know yourself as you are, give up
all ideas. You cannot imagine the taste of pure
water, you can only discover it by abandoning all
flavourings.
M: Az ismert mlt irnti vgyds, s az ismeretlen
jv irnti flelem mentlis szoksai az j vzi
ellenre egy ideig mg megmaradhatnak. Ha tudod,
hogy ezek csak az elmben lteznek, tl tudsz lpni
rajtuk. Amg mindenfle ideid vannak nmagadrl,
addig ezen idek ftyln keresztl ismered
nmagad; ahhoz, hogy annak ismerd magad, ami
vagy, adj fel minden idet. Nem tudod elkpzelni,
hogy milyen a tiszta vz ze, csak felfedezni tudod
azt, ha az sszes zestt elhagyod.

As long as you are interested in your present way of
living, you will not abandon it. Discovery cannot
come as long as you cling to the familiar. It is only
when you realise fully the immense sorrow of your
life and revolt against it, that a way out can be found.
Amg rdekelt vagy leted jelenlegi mdjban, nem
fogod feladni azt. A felfedezs nem jhet addig,
amg kapaszkodsz a jl ismertbe. Csak akkor
tallhatod meg a kiutat, mikor teljesen tudatban
vagy leted mrhetetlen szomorsgnak, s
fellzadsz ellene.

Q: I can now see that the secret of India's eternal life K: Ltom mr, hogy India rk letnek titka a lt
lies in these dimensions of existence, of which India ezen dimenziiban rejlik, amelyeket India mindig is
was always the custodian. gondozott.

M: It is an open secret and there were always M: Ez egy nylt titok, s mindig voltak, akik hajlandk
people willing and ready to share it. Teachers -- s kszek voltak megosztani azt. Tantbl sok
there are many, fearless disciples -- very few. van, flelmet nem ismer tantvnybl nagyon
kevs.

Q: I am quite willing to learn. K: Bennem ers hajlam van a tanulsra.

M: Learning words is not enough. You may know the
theory, but without the actual experience of yourself
as the impersonal and unqualified centre of being,
love and bliss, mere verbal knowledge is sterile.
M: Nem elg megtanulni szavakat. Ismerheted az
elmletet, de nmagadnak, mint a lt, szeretet, s
boldogsg szemlytelen s korltlan kzpontjnak a
valsgos megtapasztalsa nlkl a puszta szbeli
tuds haszontalan.

Q: Then, what am I to do? K: Mit kell ht tennem?

M: Try to be, only to be. The all-important word is M: Lenni trekedj, csupn lenni. A legfontosabb sz
'try'. Allot enough time daily for sitting quietly and a trekvs. Minden nap szakts elegend idt arra,
trying, just trying, to go beyond the personality, with hogy csendesen lsz, s trekszel, arra trekszel
its addictions and obsessions. Don't ask how, it csupn, hogy tllpj a szemlyisgen, annak
cannot be explained. You just keep on trying until fggsgeivel, s knyszerkpzeteivel egytt. Ne
you succeed. If you persevere, there can be no krdezd hogyan, ez nem elmagyarzhat. Csak
failure. What matters supremely is sincerity, tartsd fenn a trekvst, amg sikerrel nem jrsz. Ha
earnestness; you must really have had surfeit of rendletlenl kitartasz, nem vallhatsz kudarcot.
being the person you are, now see the urgent need Leginkbb az szintesg, a komolysg szmt;
of being free of this unnecessary self-identification valban ltezstl megcsmrlttnek kell lenned,
with a bundle of memories and habits. This steady hogy szrevedd annak a srget szksgt, hogy
resistance against the unnecessary is the secret of megszabadulj egy raks emlkkel s szokssal val
success. felesleges nazonoststl. Ez a szksgtelen elleni
kitart ellenlls a titka a sikernek.
After all, you are what you are every moment of your
life, but you are never conscious of it, except, Vgl is, az vagy ami vagy, leted minden
maybe, at the point of awakening from sleep. All you pillanatban, de sohasem vagy tudatban, kivve
need is to be aware of being, not as a verbal taln az alvsbl val felbreds pillanatt.

470
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
statement, but as an ever-present fact. The a
awareness that you are will open your eyes to what
you are. It is all very simple. First of all, establish a
constant contact with your self, be with yourself all
the time. Into self-awareness all blessings flow.
Begin as a centre of observation, deliberate
cognisance, and grow into a centre of love in action.
'I am' is a tiny seed which will grow into a mighty tree
-- quite naturally, without a trace of effort.
Q: I see so much evil in myself. Must I not change
it?
M: Evil is the shadow of inattention. In the light of
self-awareness it will wither and fall off.
All dependence on another is futile, for what others
can give others will take away. Only what is your
own at the start will remain your own in the end.
Accept no guidance but from within, and even then
sift out all memories for they will mislead you. Even
if you are quite ignorant of the ways and the means,
keep quiet and look within; guidance is sure to
come. You are never left without knowing what your
next step should be. The trouble is that you may
shirk it. The Guru is there for giving you courage
because of his experience and success. But only
what you discover through your own awareness,
your own effort, will be of permanent use to you.
Remember, nothing you perceive is your own.
Nothing of value can come to you from outside; it is
only your own feeling and understanding that are
relevant and revealing. Words, heard or read, will
only create images in your mind, but you are not a
mental image. You are the power of perception and
action behind and beyond the image.
Q: You seem to advise me to be self-centred to the
point of egoism. Must I not yield even to my interest
in other people?
M: Your interest in others is egoistic, self-concerned,
self-oriented. You are not interested in others as
persons, but only as far as they enrich, or ennoble
your own image of yourself. And the ultimate in
selfishness is to care only for the protection,
preservation and multiplication of one's own body.
By body I mean all that is related to your name and
shape -- your family, tribe, country, race, etc. To be
attached to one's name and shape is selfishness. A
man who knows that he is neither body nor mind
cannot be selfish, for he has nothing to be selfish
for. Or, you may say, he is equally 'selfish' on behalf
471
Mindssze az szksges, hogy tudatban lgy a
ltnek, nem mint verblis kijelentsnek, hanem mint
rkk jelenlv tnynek. A tudat, hogy vagy, ki
fogja nyitni a szemedet arra, ami vagy. Mindez
nagyon egyszer. Elszr is, teremts lland
kapcsolatot neddel, lgy nmagaddal
szakadatlanul. Az n-tudatba rad be minden lds.
Kezdd gy, mint az szlels kzpontja, a szndkos
szlels, s nj bele a cselekv szeretet
kzpontjba. Az n vagyok egy apr mag, amelybl
hatalmas fa fog kinni egszen termszetesen, az
erfeszts nyoma nlkl.
K: Annyi gonoszt ltok nmagamban. Nem kell ezen
vltoztatnom?
M: A gonosz a figyelmetlensg rnyka. Az n-tudat
fnyben majd elszrad, s leesik.
Minden mssal kapcsolatos fggs haszontalan,
mert amit msok adni tudnak, azt msok el is fogjk
venni. Csak az marad a tid a vgn is, ami
kezdettl a tid. Ne fogadj el irnytst mshonnan,
csak bellrl, s mg ekkor is rostlj ki minden
emlket, mert megtvesztenek. Mg ha teljesen
tudatlan is vagy az utakat s mdokat illeten,
maradj csendben, s nzz befel; az irnytsnak
biztosan jnnie kell. Soha nem maradsz annak
ismerete nlkl, hogy mi legyen a kvetkez
lpsed. A baj az, hogy kivonhatod magad alla. A
Guru ott van, hogy tapasztalatai s sikere alapjn
btorsgot adjon neked. De csak az jr majd tarts
haszonnal szmodra, amit sajt tudatossgod, sajt
erfesztsed rvn fedezel fel.
Jegyezd meg, hogy semmi nem a tied, amit szlelsz.
Semmilyen rtkes nem rkezhet hozzd kvlrl;
csak rzsed, s megrtsed lehet trgyhoz tartoz
s feltr. A hallott vagy olvasott szavak csak
kpeket hoznak ltre elmdben, de te nem egy
mentlis kp vagy. Te a kp mgtti, s azon tli
szlels s cselekvs hatalma vagy.
K: gy tnik, az a javaslatod, hogy az egoizmus
hatrig legyek n kzpont. Mg a ms emberek
irnti rdekldst sem engedhetem meg
magamnak?
M: A te msok irnti rdekldsed n kzpont,
nvonatkoztatott, nirnyult. Msok nem
szemlyekknt rdekelnek, csak amennyiben
nkpedet gazdagtjk, vagy nemestik. s a
legutols nzs, ha valaki csak sajt testnek a
vdelmvel, megvsval, s sokszorostsval
foglalkozik. Test alatt mindazokat dolgokat rtem,
amelyek nevedhez s formdhoz kapcsoldnak
csaldod, trzsed, orszgod, rasszod, stb. Valakinek
a nevhez s formjhoz ktdni egoizmus. Aki
tudja, hogy sem testtel, sem az elmvel nem
azonos, nem lehet nz, mert nincs semmije, amire
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
of everybody he meets; everybody's welfare is his nz lehetne. Vagy, mondhatni, egyformn nz
own. The feeling 'I am the world, the world is myself' mindenki nevben, akivel tallkozik; mindenki jlte
becomes quite natural; once it is established, there az sajtja. Az n a vilg vagyok, a vilg
is just no way of being selfish. To be selfish means nmagam rzse teljesen termszetess vlik;
to covet, acquire, accumulate on behalf of the part amint elfogadtad, egyszeren lehetsg sincs r,
against the whole. hogy nz lgy. nznek lenni azt jelenti, svrogni
utna, megszerezni, felhalmozni a rsz kedvrt, az
egsz rdeke ellenben.

Q: One may be rich with many possessions, by K: Az ember gy lehet gazdag, ha nagy a vagyona,
inheritance, or marriage, or just good luck. rkl, behzasodik, vagy csupn nagy a
szerencsje.

M: If you do not hold on to, it will be taken away from M: Ha nem ragaszkodsz hozz, el fog tled
you. tvolodni.

Q: In your present state can you love another K: Jelen llapotodban tudnl szeretni szemlyknt
person as a person? egy msik szemlyt?

M: I am the other person, the other person is myself; M: n vagyok a msik szemly, a msik szemly
in name and shape we are different, but there is no nmagam; nevnk s formnk klnbzik, de nem
separation. At the root of our being we are one. vagyunk elklnltek. Ltezsnk gykernl egyek
vagyunk.

Q: Is it not so whenever there is love between K: Nem ez van, valahnyszor szeretet van az
people? emberek kztt?

M: It is, but they are not conscious of it. They feel M: Ez van, de ennek nincsenek tudatban. rzik a
the attraction, but do not know the reason. vonzst, de nem ismerik az okot.

Q: Why is love selective? K: A szeretet mirt megklnbztet?

M: Love is not selective, desire is selective. In love
there are no strangers. When the centre of
selfishness is no longer, all desires for pleasure and
fear of pain cease; one is no longer interested in
being happy; beyond happiness there is pure
intensity, inexhaustible energy, the ecstasy of giving
from a perennial source.
M: A szeretet nem megklnbztet, a vgy a
megklnbztet. A szeretetben nincsenek
idegenek. Amikor az nzs kzpontja megsznik,
akkor az rm irnti minden vgy s a fjdalomtl
val minden flelem is megsznik; az embert nem
rdekli tbb, hogy boldog legyen; a boldogsgon
tl ott van a halhatatlan forrs tiszta erssge,
kimerthetetlen energija, elragadtatsa.

Q: Mustn't I begin by solving for myself the problem K: Nem azzal kell kezdenem, hogy megoldom
of right and wrong? nmagam szmra a j s rossz problmjt?

M: What is pleasant people take it to be good and M: Ami kellemes, azt az emberek jnak tartjk, s
what is painful they take it to be bad. ami fjdalmas, azt rossznak tartjk.

Q: Yes, that is how it is with us, ordinary people. But K: Igen, gy van ez velnk, kznsges emberekkel.
how is it with you, at the level of oneness? For you De hogy van a te esetedben, az egysg szintjn?
what is good and what is bad? Szmodra mi j, s mi rossz?

M: What increases suffering is bad and what M: Ami nveli a szenvedst, az rossz, ami
removes it is good. megsznteti, az j.

Q: So you deny goodness to suffering itself. There K: gy ht elutastod a szenvedsnek magnak a

are religions in which suffering is considered good jsgt. Vannak vallsok, amelyek a szenvedst
and noble. jnak, s nemesnek tekintik.

M: Karma, or destiny, is an expression of a M: A karma, vagy a sors egy dvs szeretet

beneficial law: the universal trend towards balance, kifejezse: az univerzlis tendencia egyensly,

472
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
harmony and unity. At every moment, whatever
happens now, is for the best. It may appear painful
and ugly, a suffering bitter and meaningless, yet
considering the past and the future it is for the best,
as the only way out of a disastrous situation.
Q: Does one suffer only for one's own sins?
M: One suffers along with what one thinks oneself to M: Az ember annak megfelelen szenved, hogy
be. If you feel one with humanity, you suffer with kinek gondolja magt. Ha egynek rzed magad az
humanity. emberisggel, akkor egytt szenvedsz az
emberisggel.
Q: And since you claim to be one with the sufferers,
there is no limit in time or space to your suffering.
M: To be is to suffer. The narrower the circle of my
self-identification, the more acute the suffering
caused by desire and fear.
Q: Christianity accepts suffering as purifying and
ennobling, while Hinduism looks at it with distaste.
M: Christianity is one way of putting words together
and Hinduism is another. The real is, behind and
beyond words, incommunicable, directly
experienced, explosive in its effect on the mind. It is
easily had when nothing else is wanted. The innards
created by imagination and perpetuated by desire.
Q: Can there be no suffering that is necessary and
good?
M: Accidental or incidental pain is inevitable and
transitory; deliberate pain, inflicted with even the
best of intentions, is meaningless and cruel.
Q: You would not punish crime?
M: Punishment is but legalised crime. In a society
built on prevention, rather than retaliation, there
would be very little crime. The few exceptions will be
treated medically, as of unsound mind and body.
Q: You seem to have little use for religion.
M: What is religion? A cloud in the sky. I live in the
sky, not in the clouds, which are so many words held
together. Remove the verbiage and what remains?
Truth remains. My home is in the unchangeable,
which appears to be a state of constant
reconciliation and integration of opposites. People
come here to learn about the actual existence of
473
harmnia, s egysg fel mutat. Minden pillanatban,
akrmi trtnik most, a legjobb cl rdekben
trtnik. Lehet, hogy fjdalmasnak s csnynak,
keser s rtelmetlen szenvedsnek tnik, mgis, a
mlt s a jv mrlegelsvel egyetemben a legjobb
cl rdekben trtnik, egy vgzetes szituci
egyetlen kimeneteleknt.
K: Az ember csupn sajt bnei miatt szenved?
K: s mivel az az ignyed, hogy egy legyl a
szenvedkkel, szenvedsednek nincs id- vagy
trbeli korltja.
M: Ltezni annyi, mint szenvedni. nazonossgom
kre minl szkebb, annl knzbb a vgy s
flelem okozta szenveds.
K: A keresztnysg gy fogadja el a szenvedst,
mint ami tisztt, s nemest, mg a hinduizmus gy
tekint r, mint utlatos dologra.
M: A keresztnysg gy, a hinduizmus pedig gy fzi
a szavakat. A valsg a szavak mgtt s tl van,
elmondhatatlan, kzvetlen tapasztalat, az elmre
nzve explozv hats. Knnyen lpre megy, ha
semmi mst nem akar. A belsk kpzelet rvn
keletkeztek, s vgy ltal llandsultak.
K: Nem lehetsges olyan szenveds, amely
szksges, s j?
M: A vletlen, vagy elre nem lthat fjdalom
elkerlhetetlen, s ml; a szndkos fjdalom
rtelmetlen, s kegyetlen, okozd azt akr a legjobb
szndkkal.
K: Te nem bntetnd a bncselekmnyt?
M: A bntets legalizlt bncselekmny csupn.
Egy megelzsre ptett trsadalomban, a retorzi
hinya ellenre, nagyon alacsony lenne a bnzs.
A nhny kivtelt gy tekintenk, mint beteg elmt
s testet, s orvosilag kezelnk.
K: gy ltom, a vallsnak kevs haszna van
szmodra.
M: Mi a valls? Felh az gen. n az gben lek,
nem a sok szval egyben tartotta felhkben.
Tvoltsd el a locsogst, s mi marad? Az igazsg
marad. Az n otthonom a vltozhatatlanban van,
amely az ellenttek vltozatlan sszebklt s
integrlt llapotaknt jelenik meg. Az emberek azrt
jnnek ide, hogy az ilyen llapotok mibenltrl,
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
such a state, the obstacles to its emergence, and,
once perceived, the art of stabilising it in
consciousness, so that there is no clash between
understanding and living. The state itself is beyond
the mind and need not be learnt. The mind can only
focus the obstacles; seeing an obstacle as an
obstacle is effective, because it is the mind acting on
the mind. Begin from the beginning: give attention to
the fact that you are. At no time can you say 'I was
not' all you can say: 'I do not remember'. You know
how unreliable is memory. Accept that, engrossed in
petty personal affairs you have forgotten what you
are; try to bring back the lost memory through the
elimination of the known. You cannot be told what
will happen, nor is it desirable; anticipation will
create illusions. In the inner search the unexpected
is inevitable; the discovery is invariably beyond all
imagination. Just as an unborn child cannot know
life after birth, for it has nothing in its mind with
which to form a valid picture, so is the mind unable
to think of the real in terms of the unreal, except by
negation: Not this, not that'. The acceptance of the
unreal as real is the obstacle; to see the false as
false and abandon the false brings reality into being.
The states of utter clarity, immense love, utter
fearlessness; these are mere words at the present,
outlines without colour, hints at what can be. You
are like a blind man expecting to see as a result of
an operation -- provided you do not shirk the
operation. The state I am in words do not matter at
all. Nor is there any addiction to words. Only facts
matter.
Q: There can be no religion without words.
M: Recorded religions are mere heaps of verbiage.
Religions show their true face in action, in silent
action. To know what man believes, watch how he
acts. For most of the people service of their bodies
and their minds is their religion. They may have
religious ideas, but they do not act on them. They
play with them, they are often very fond of them, but
they will not act on them.
Q: Words are needed for communication.
M: For exchange of information -- yes. But real
communication between people is not verbal. For
establishing and maintaining relationship
affectionate awareness expressed in direct action is
required. Not what you say, but what you do is that
matters. Words are made by the mind and are
meaningful only on the level of the mind. The word
bread: neither can you eat nor live by it; it merely
conveys an idea. It acquires meaning only with the
474
kialakulsuk akadlyairl, s a megrts utn a
tudatossgban val stabilizlsnak a mvszetrl
tanuljanak, elkerlend a megrts s az let kztti
ellentmondst. Az llapot maga meghaladja az
elmt, s nem tanulhat. Az elme csak a hibkra tud
fkuszlni; hatkony dolog a hibt hibnak ltni,
mivel az elme hat az elmre. Kezdd az elejn:
szenteld figyelmedet a tnynek, hogy vagy. Soha
nem jelentheted ki, hogy nem voltam, mindssze
annyit mondhatsz, nem emlkszem. Tudod, milyen
megbzhatatlan az emlkezet. Fogadd el, hogy
jelentktelen szemlyes gyeiddel elfoglaltan
elfelejted, hogy mi vagy; prbld az ismert
kikszblsvel visszahozni az elveszett emlket.
Nem tudjuk megmondani, mi fog trtnni, sem azt,
hogy kvnatos-e; az elvrs fogja megteremteni az
illzikat. A bels keressben a vratlan
elkerlhetetlen; a felfedezs mindig minden
kpzeletet fellml. Ahogy a megszlets eltt lv
gyermek sem ismerheti a szletst kvet letet,
mert elmjben nincs semmi olyan, amivel vals
kpet alakthatna ki, az elme ugyangy kptelen a
valsgra a nem valdi kifejezseivel gondolni, a
tagad mdot kivve: nem ez, nem az. Ha a
valtlant valdinak fogadod el, az akadly; ha a
hamist hamisnak ltod, s elveted a hamist,
megszletik a valsg. A legteljesebb tisztasg, a
mrhetetlen szeretet, a teljes flelemmentessg
llapota; ezek a jelenben puszta szavak, sznek
nlkli krvonalak, arra vonatkoz tippek, hogy mi
lehet. A vak emberhez vagy hasonl, aki ltst egy
mtttl remli visszanyerni feltve, hogy nem
bjsz ki a mtt all. Az n vagyok llapota szavak
csupn, melyeknek nincs jelentsgk. Ugyangy a
szavak irnti brmilyen fggsgnek sincs. Csak a
tnyek szmtanak.
K: Nem ltezhetnek vallsok szavak nlkl.
M: A feljegyzett vallsok locsogsok puszta
halmaza. A vallsok valdi arcukat cselekvs sorn
mutatjk meg, csendes cselekvsben. Ha meg
akarod tudni valakirl, hogy miben hisz, figyeld meg,
hogyan cselekszik. Mert a legtbben a testket
szolgljk, s vallsuk az elmjk. Lehetnek
vallsos eszmik, de nem azok szerint
cselekszenek. Jtszanak velk, gyakran nagyon
szeretik ket, de nem azok alapjn cselekszenek.
K: Szksg van szavakra a kommunikcihoz.
M: Informcicserhez igen. De az emberek
kztti valdi kommunikci nem verblis. A
kapcsolatok kiptshez s polshoz a szeret
figyelem kzvetlen cselekvsben val kifejezse
szksges. Nem az a lnyeg, mit mondasz, hanem
az, mit csinlsz. A szavakat az elme lltja el, s
csak az elme szintjn brnak rtelemmel. A kenyr
szt nem lehet sem megenni, sem lni ltala;
pusztn egy idea hordozja. Jelentst csak a
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
actual eating. In the same sense am I telling you that
the Normal State is not verbal. I may say it is wise
love expressed in action, but these words convey
little, unless you experience them in their fullness
and beauty.
Words have their limited usefulness, but we put no
limits to them and bring ourselves to the brink of
disaster. Our noble ideas are finely balanced by
ignoble actions. We talk of God, Truth and Love, but
instead of direct experience we have definitions.
Instead of enlarging and deepening action we chisel
our definitions. And we imagine that we know what
we can define.
Q: How can one convey experience except through
words?
M: Experience cannot be conveyed through words.
It comes with action. A man who is intense in his
experience will radiate confidence and courage.
Others too will act and gain experience born out of
action. Verbal teaching has its use, it prepares the
mind for voiding itself of its accumulations.
A level of mental maturity is reached when nothing
external is of any value and the heart is ready to
relinquish all. Then the real has a chance and it
grasps it. Delays, if any, are caused by the mind
being unwilling to see or to discard.
Q: Are we so totally alone?
M: Oh, no, we are not. Those who have, can give.
And such givers are many. The world itself is a
supreme gift, maintained by loving sacrifice. But the
right receivers, wise and humble, are so few. 'Ask
and you shall be given' is the eternal law.
So many words you have learnt, so many you have
spoken. You know everything, but you do not know
yourself. For the self is not known through words --
only direct insight will reveal it. Look within, search
within.
Q: It is very difficult to abandon words. Our mental
life is one continuous stream of words.
M: It is not a matter of easy, or difficult. You have no M: Lnyegtelen, hogy knny, vagy bonyolult. Nincs
alternative. Either you try or you don't. It is up to you. alternatvd. Vagy prblkozol, vagy nem. Rajtad ll.
Q: I have tried many times and failed.
475
tnyleges evssel nyeri el. Ugyanezen rtelemben
mondom, hogy a Normlis llapot nem verblis.
Elmondhatom rla, hogy cselekvsben kifejezett
blcs szeretet, de e szavak keveset kzvettenek,
hacsak meg nem tapasztalod ket, azok
teljessgben s szpsgben.
A szavaknak hasznlhatsga korltozott, de mi azt
felttelezzk, hogy korltlan, s ezzel a katasztrfa
szlre sodorjuk magunkat. Nemes ideinkat vgl
alantas cselekedetek ellenttelezik. Istenrl,
Igazsgrl, s Szeretetrl beszlnk, de kzvetlen
tapasztalat helyett definciink vannak. Ahelyett,
hogy a tapasztalatainkat szlestennk s
mlytennk, definciinkat cizellljuk. s azt
kpzeljk, ismerjk, amit definilni tudunk.
K: Hogyan tudn az ember a tapasztalatait
kzvetteni mskpp, mint szavakkal?
M: Tapasztalat nem kzvetthet szavakkal. Az
cselekvssel jn. Az elmlylt tapasztalatokkal
rendelkez ember magabiztossgot, s btorsgot
sugroz. Msok szintn cselekedni fognak, s
cselekvs rvn szletett tapasztalatokat fognak
szerezni. A verblis tantsnak az a haszna, hogy
elkszti az elmt nmaga sszehordott
ismeretektl val kirestsre.
A mentlis rettsg szintjt akkor red el, amikor
semmilyen klsnek nincs semmilyen rtke, s a
szv kszen ll, hogy mindent eleresszen. Ezutn
kap eslyt a valsg, amit megragad. A kslekedst
az elme okozza, mert vonakodik, hogy lsson,
illetve, hogy kidobja a kidobandt.
K: Teljesen egyedl vagyunk?
M: , nem, nem vagyunk egyedl. Akiknek van,
adni tudnak. s ilyen adk sokan vannak. Maga a
vilg is egy pratlan ajndk, amit a szeret ldozat
tart fenn. De akik helyesen fogadnak, a blcsek, s
alzatosak, nagyon kevesen vannak. Krj, s
adatik, ez az rk trvny.
Oly sok szt megtanultl, oly sok szt kimondtl.
Tudsz mindent, de nem ismered nmagad. Mert az
n nem ismerhet meg szavakon keresztl csak
kzvetlen megltsban fog megmutatkozni. Nzz
befel, keress bell.
K: Nagyon nehz feladni a szavakat. Mentlis
letnk szavak egyetlen szakadatlan folyama.
K: Sokszor prblkoztam, s nem jrtam sikerrel.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
M: Try again. If you keep on trying, something may
happen. But if you don't, you are stuck. You may
know all the right words, quote the scriptures, be
brilliant in your discussions and yet remain a bag of
bones. Or you may be inconspicuous and humble,
an insignificant person altogether, yet glowing with
loving kindness and deep wisdom.
99. The Perceived can not be the
Perceiver
Questioner: I have been moving from place to place
investigating the various Yogas available for practice
and I could not decide which will suit me best. I
should be thankful for some competent advice. At
present, as a result of all this searching, I am just
tired of the idea of finding truth. It seems to me, both
unnecessary and troublesome. Life is enjoyable as it
is and I see no purpose in improving on it.
Maharaj: You are welcome to stay in your
contentment, but can you? Youth, vigour, money --
all will pass away sooner than you expect. Sorrow,
shunned so far, will pursue you. If you want to be
beyond suffering, you must meet it half way and
embrace it. Relinquish your habits and addictions,
live a simple and sober life, don't hurt a living being;
this is the foundation of Yoga. To find reality you
must be real in the smallest daily action; there can
be no deceit in the search for truth. You say you find
your life enjoyable. Maybe it is -- at present. But who
enjoys it?
Q: I confess I do not know the enjoyer nor the
enjoyed. I only know the enjoyment.
M: Quite right. But enjoyment is a state of mind -- it
comes and goes. Its very impermanence makes it
perceivable. You cannot be conscious of what does
not change. All consciousness is consciousness of
change. But the very perception of change -- does it
not necessitate a changeless background?
Q: Not at all. The memory of the last state --
compared to the actuality of the present state gives
the experience of change.
M: Between the remembered and the actual there is
a basic difference which can be observed from
moment to moment. At no point of time is the actual
the remembered. Between the two there is a
difference in kind, not merely in intensity. The actual
is unmistakably so. By no effort of will or imagination
can you interchange the two. Now, what is it that
476
M: Prbld jra. Ha folyamatosan prblkozol,
trtnhet valami. De ha nem, megragadsz.
Ismerhetsz minden helyes szt, idzhetsz szent
knyveket, brillrozhatsz vitk sorn, s mgis egy
zsk csont maradsz. Vagy lehetsz olyan, aki alig
szrevehet s alzatos, sszessgben
jelentktelen szemly, mgis, aki szeret jsgtl,
s mly blcsessgtl ragyog.
99. Az szlelt nem lehet azonos az
szlelvel
Krdez: Egyik helyrl a msikra utazom,
klnbz gyakorlsra alkalmas Yogkat
tanulmnyozok, s nem tudok dnteni, melyik lenne
szmomra a legjobb. Hls lennk nhny alkalmas
tancsrt. E pillanatban, ksznheten ennek az
egsz keressnek, belefradtam az igazsg keress
idejba. gy tnik szmomra, hogy mindkett
felesleges, s fradsgos. Az let gy lvezetes,
ahogy van, s nincs szndkom javtani rajta.
Maharaj: Megelgedettsgedet rmmel hallom, de
meg tudod tartani? Fiatalsg, leter, pnz mind
elmlnak, hamarabb, mint vrnd. A szomorsg,
ami eddig elkerlt, a nyomodban fog jrni. Ha tl
akarsz lpni a szenvedsen, akkor tallkoznod kell
vele flton, s t kell lelned. Add fel szoksaidat
s fggsgeidet, lj egyszer s jzan letet, ne
bnts llnyt; ez a Yoga alapja. A valsg
megtallshoz mindennapi legaprbb
tnykedseidben is valsgosnak kell lenned; nem
lehet hamissg az igazsg keressben. Azt
mondod, hogy lvezetesnek tallod az letedet.
Lehet, hogy az jelen pillanatban. De ki lvezi azt?
K: Bevallom, nem ismerem sem az lvezt, sem az
vezettet. Csak az lvezetet ismerem.
M: Kitn. De az lvezet az elme egy llapota jn
s megy. Valjban ml volta teszi azt
szlelhetv. Annak nem lehetsz tudatban, ami
nem vltozik. Minden tudatossg a vltozs
tudatossga. De pontosan a vltozs szlelse
nem tesz szksgess egy vltozatlan htteret?
K: Egyltaln nem. A vltozs lmnyt az utols
llapot emlknek s az aktulis llapotnak az
sszehasonltsa adja.
M: Az emlk, s az aktulis llapot kztt egy
alapvet klnbsg van, amely pillanatrl pillanatra
megfigyelhet. Az aktulis s az emlk egyetlen
idpontban sem azonos. A kett kztt nem csak
intenzitsbeli, hanem minsgi klnbsg is van. Az
aktulis flre nem rthet mdon az. Semmilyen
akarati erfesztssel, vagy kpzelettel nem
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
gives this unique quality to the actual?
Q: The actual is real, while there is a good deal of
uncertainty about the remembered.
M: Quite so, but why? A moment back the
remembered was actual, in a moment the actual will
be the remembered. What makes the actual unique?
Obviously, it is your sense of being present. In
memory and anticipation there is a clear feeling that
it is a mental state under observation, while in the
actual the feeling is primarily of being present and
aware.
Q: Yes I can see. It is awareness that makes the
difference between the actual and the remembered.
One thinks of the past or the future, but one is
present in the now.
M: Wherever you go, the sense of here and now you
carry with you all the time. It means that you are
independent of space and time, that space and time
are in you, not you in them. It is your self-
identification with the body, which, of course, is
limited in space and time, that gives you the feeling
of finiteness. In reality you are infinite and eternal.
Q: This infinite and eternal self of mine, how am I to
know it?
M: The self you want to know, is it some second
self? Are you made of several selves? Surely, there
is only one self and you are that self. The self you
are is the only self there is. Remove and abandon
your wrong ideas about yourself and there it is, in all
its glory. It is only your mind that prevents self-
knowledge.
Q: How am I to be rid of the mind? And is life without K: Hogyan szabaduljak meg az elmtl? s az let
mind at all possible on the human level?
M: There is no such thing as mind. There are ideas
and some of them are wrong. Abandon the wrong
ideas, for they are false and obstruct your vision of
yourself.
Q: Which ideas are wrong and which are true?
M: Assertions are usually wrong and denials -- right.
Q: One cannot live by denying everything.
M: Only by denying can one live. Assertion is
bondage. To question and deny is necessary. It is
the essence of revolt and without revolt there can be
no freedom.
477
cserlheted fel a kettt. Na mr most, mi az, ami az
aktulis egyedi minsgt adja?
K: Az aktulis valdi, mg az emlkkel kapcsolatban
jval nagyobb a bizonytalansg.
M: Igazad van, de mirt van gy? Egy pillanattal
elbb, az emlk volt aktulis, egy pillanat mlva az
aktulis lesz az emlk. Mi teszi az aktulisat
egyediv? Nyilvnval, hogy jelenlvsg rzsed.
Emlked s elvrsod azt a tiszta rzst foglalja
magban, hogy az egy megfigyelt mentlis llapot,
mg az aktulisban elsdlegesen a jelen s a tudat
rzse van.
K: Igen, rtem. A tudat az, ami miatt klnbsg van
az aktulis s az emlk kztt. Az ember gondolja a
mltat, vagy a jvt, de a jelen a mostban van.
M: Brhov msz, az itt s most rzse llandan
veled van. Ez azt jelenti, hogy trtl s idtl
fggetlen vagy, hogy a tr s id benned vannak, s
nem te vagy azokban. Testtel val nazonossgod,
ami trben, s idben termszetesen korltozott
ez adja a vgessg rzst. Valjban vgtelen, s
rkkval vagy.
K: Hogyan ismerhetem meg ezt a vgtelen, s
rkkval nemet?
M: Az n, amit meg akarsz ismerni, valamifle
msodik n? Klnbz neket teremtettl? Biztos,
hogy csak egy n van, s hogy te vagy az az n. Az
n, ami vagy, az egyetlen n, ami van. Tvoltsd el,
s add fel nmagadrl alkotott rossz ideidat, s azt
ott tallod, teljes dicssgben. Egyedl elmd vet
gtat nismeretednek.
lehetsges egyltaln elme nlkl, az emberi
szinten?
M: Nincs olyan dolog, hogy elme. Vannak idek, s
nmelyikk rossz. Hagyj fel a rossz idekkal, mert
hamisak, s elzrnak attl, hogy lsd nmagadat.
K: Mely idek rosszak, s melyek igazak?
M: Az lltsok ltalban rosszak, s a tagadsok
helyesek.
K: Nem lhetek gy, hogy mindent tagadok.
M: Csak tagadssal lhetsz. Az llts ktttsg.
Krdezni, s tagadni szksgszer. Ez a lnyege a
lzadsnak, s lzads nlkl nem ltezhet
szabadsg.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
There is no second, or higher self to search for. You
are the highest self, only give up the false ideas you
have about your self. Both faith and reason tell you
that you are neither the body, nor its desires and
fears, nor are you the mind with its fanciful ideas,
nor the role society compels you to play, the person
you are supposed to be. Give up the false and the
true will come into its own.
You say you want to know your self. You are your
self -- you cannot be anything but what you are. Is
knowing separate from being? Whatever you can
know with your mind is of the mind, not you; about
yourself you can only say: 'I am, I am aware, I like It'.
Q: I find being alive a painful state.
M: You cannot be alive for you are life itself. It is the
person you imagine yourself to be that suffers, not
you. Dissolve it in awareness. It is merely a bundle
of memories and habits. From the awareness of the
unreal to the awareness of your real nature there is
a chasm which you will easily cross, once you have
mastered the art of pure awareness.
Q: All I know is that I do not know myself.
M: How do you know, that you do not know your
self? Your direct insight tells you that yourself you
know first, for nothing exists to you without your
being there to experience its existence. You imagine
you do not know your self, because you cannot
describe your self. You can always say: 'I know that I
am' and you will refuse as untrue the statement: 'I
am not'. But whatever can be described cannot be
your self, and what you are cannot be described.
You can only know your self by being yourself
without any attempt at self-definition and self-
description. Once you have understood that you are
nothing perceivable or conceivable, that whatever
appears in the field of consciousness cannot be your
self, you will apply yourself to the eradication of all
self-identification, as the only way that can take you
to a deeper realisation of your self. You literally
progress by rejection -- a veritable rocket. To know
that you are neither in the body nor in the mind,
though aware of both, is already self-knowledge.
Q: If I am neither the body nor mind, how am I
aware of them? How can I perceive something quite
foreign to myself?
M: 'Nothing is me,' is the first step. 'Everything is me' M: A semmi nem n vagyok az els lps. A
is the next. Both hang on the idea: 'there is a world'. minden n vagyok a kvetkez. Mindkett a ltezik
478
Nincs msodik, vagy magasabb n, amit keresned
kne. Te vagy a legfelsbb n, csak add fel az
nedrl szl hamis idekat. Hit s rtelem egyarnt
azt mondjk, nem vagy sem a test, sem annak
vgyai s flelmei, sem az elme, annak kpzelet
szlte ideival, sem a trsadalmi szerep, amely arra
knyszert, hogy eljtszd a szemlyt, aki felttelezs
szerint vagy. Add fel a hamist, s az igaz az sajt
rkbe lp.
Azt mondod, meg akarod ismerni nedet. Te vagy
az ned nem lehetsz semmi, csak ami vagy. Az
ismeret elklnl a lttl? Brmi, amit elmddel
ismerni tudsz, az elm, nem te vagy; nmagadrl
csak azt mondhatod: n vagyok, tudatos vagyok,
szeretem.
K: gy tallom, letben lenni fjdalmas llapot.
M: Nem lehetsz letben, mert te maga az let vagy.
A szemly szenved, akinek kpzeled magad, nem
te. Oldd fel a tudatossgban. Egy halom emlk s
szoks csupn. A valtlan tudatossga s igaz
termszeted tudatossga kztt szakadk van,
amelyet knnyedn t fogsz hidalni, amint
mesterv vltl a tiszta tudatossg mvszetnek.
K: Mindssze annyit tudok, hogy nem ismerem
nmagam.
M: Honnan tudod, hogy nem ismered nmagad?
Kzvetlen megltsod azt sgja, hogy nmagadat
ismered elszr, mert semmi nem ltezik szmodra
anlkl, hogy te ott lennl, hogy tapasztald annak
ltezst. Azrt kpzeled, hogy nem ismered
nmagad, mert nem tudod lerni nmagad. Mindig
kijelentheted, hogy tudom, hogy vagyok, s vissza
fogod utastani, mint hamis lltst, hogy nem
vagyok. De brmi is legyen amit le tudsz rni, az
nem lehet az nmagad, s ami vagy, azt nem tudod
lerni. Csak azltal ismerheted magad, hogy
nmagad vagy, az nmeghatrozs, s nlers
mindenfle ksrlete nlkl. Amint megrtetted, hogy
te semmi olyan nem vagy, ami szlelhet, vagy
elkpzelhet, hogy brmi jelenjk is meg a
tudatossg mezejben, az nem lehetsz te magad, t
fogod adni magad minden nmeghatrozs
kiirtsnak, mint egyetlen mdnak, amellyel
nmagad mlyebb megvalstsig eljuthatsz.
Elvetssel a sz szoros rtelmben gy haladsz,
akr egy igazi rakta. Tudni, hogy sem a testben,
sem az elmben nem vagy, noha tudatban vagy
mindkettnek, mr nismeret.
K: Ha sem a test, sem az elme nem vagyok, mirt
vagyok ezek tudatban? Hogyan szlelhetek
valamit, ami teljesen idegen tlem?
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
When this too is given up, you remain what you are - a vilg ideba kapaszkodik. Amikor ez is feladsra
- the non-dual Self. You are it here and now, but kerl, az maradsz, ami vagy a nem ketts n. Te
your vision is obstructed by your false ideas about az vagy itt s most, de ltsodat eltorztjk az
your self. neddel kapcsolatos hamis idek.

Q: Well, I admit that I am, I was, I shall be; at least
from birth to death. I have no doubts of my being,
here and now. But I find that it is not enough. My life
lacks joy, born of harmony between the inner and
the outer. If I alone am and the world is merely a
protection, then why is there disharmony?
K: Nos, elfogadom, hogy vagyok, voltam, leszek;
legalbbis szletstl a hallig. Nem ktelkedem a
ltemben, itt s most. De gy gondolom, hogy ez
nem elg. Az letembl hinyzik az rm, ami a
bels s a kls kztti harmnibl szletik. Ha
egyedl n vagyok, s a vilg pusta kivetts, akkor
mirt a diszharmnia?

M: You create disharmony and then complain. When
you desire and fear, and identify yourself with your
feelings, you create sorrow and bondage. When you
create, with love and wisdom, and remain
unattached to your creations, the result is harmony
and peace. But whatever be the condition of your
mind, in what way does it reflect on you? It is only
your self-identification with your mind that makes
you happy or unhappy. Rebel against your slavery to
your mind, see your bonds as self-created and break
the chains of attachment and revulsion. Keep in
mind your goal of freedom, until it dawns on you that
you are already free, that freedom is not something
in the distant future to be earned with painful efforts,
but perennially one's own, to be used. Liberation is
not an acquisition but a matter of courage, the
courage to believe that you are free already and to
act on it.
M: Te teremtesz diszharmnit, utna pedig
panaszkodsz. Amikor vgysz s flsz, s
rzseiddel azonostod nmagad, akkor
szomorsgot, s ktttsget teremtesz. Amikor
szeretettel s blcsessggel teremtesz, s fggetlen
maradsz teremtmnyeidtl, annak eredmnye
harmnia, s bke. De akrmi is legyen elmd
llapota, mi mdon fejezdik ki rajtad? Csak
elmddel val nazonosulsod tesz boldogg, vagy
boldogtalann. Lzadj fel ellene, hogy elmd
rabszolgja lgy, lsd, hogy bilincseidet magad
teremtetted, s trd szt a ragaszkods s az undor
lncait. Tartsd elmdben szabadsgod cljt, mg r
nem bredsz, hogy mr szabad vagy, hogy a
szabadsg nem valami tvoli jvben bekvetkez
dolog, amit fjdalmas erfesztsekkel kell
kirdemelni, hanem rkrvny mdon a te
sajtod, a szolglatodban ll. A szabadsg nem
megszerzs, hanem btorsg dolga, btor vagy
elhinni, hogy mr szabad vagy, s a szerint
cselekedni.

Q: If I do as I like, I shall have to suffer. K: Ha gy cselekszem, ahogy szeretnk,

szenvednem kell.

M: Nevertheless, you are free. The consequences of M: Mindazonltal, szabad vagy. Cselekedeted
your action will depend on the society in which you kvetkezmnyei a trsadalomtl fognak fggeni,
live and its conventions. amelyben lsz, s annak konvenciitl.

Q: I may act recklessly. K: Lehet, hogy meggondolatlanul cselekszem.

M: Along with courage will emerge wisdom and M: A btorsggal egytt fog nvekedni blcsessg,
compassion and skill in action. You will know what to a knyrlet, s a cselekvsbeli gyessg. Tudni
do and whatever you do will be good for all. fogod, mit kell tenned, s brmit teszel, az
mindenkpp j lesz.

Q: I find that the various aspects of myself are at
war between themselves and there is no peace in
me. Where are freedom and courage, wisdom and
compassion? My actions merely increase the chasm
in which I exist.
K: gy ltom, nmagam klnbz aspektusai
hborban llnak egymssal, s nincs bennem
bke. Hol a szabadsg, a btorsg, a blcsessg s
a knyrlet? Cselekedeteim csupn a koszt
nvelik, amelyben lek.

M: It is all so, because you take yourself to be
somebody, or something. Stop, look, investigate,
ask the right questions, come to the right
conclusions and have the courage to act on them
and see what happens. The first steps may bring the
M: Ez teljesen gy van, mert a testnek tartod magad,
vagy valaminek. llj meg, nzz, vizsgldj, tedd fel a
helyes krdseket, juss el a helyes
kvetkeztetsekre, s legyen meg a btorsgod a
szerint cselekedni, s megltod, mi trtnik. Lehet,

479
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
roof down on your head, but soon the commotion
will clear and there will be peace and joy. You know
so many things about yourself, but the knower you
do not know. Find out who you are, the knower of
the known. Look within diligently, remember to
remember that the perceived cannot be the
perceiver. Whatever you see, hear or think of,
remember -- you are not what happens, you are he
to whom it happens. Delve deeply into the sense 'I
am' and you will surely discover that the perceiving
centre is universal, as universal as the light that
illumines the world. All that happens in the universe
happens to you, the silent witness. On the other
hand, whatever is done, is done by you, the
universal and inexhaustible energy.
Q: It is, no doubt, very gratifying to hear that one is
the silent witness as well as the universal energy.
But how is one to cross over from a verbal statement
to direct knowledge? Hearing is not knowing.
M: Before you can know anything directly, non-
verbally, you must know the knower. So far, you
took the mind for the knower, but it is just not so.
The mind clogs you up with images and ideas, which
leave scars in memory. You take remembering to be
knowledge. True knowledge is ever fresh, new,
unexpected. It wells up from within. When you know
what you are, you also are what you know. Between
knowing and being there is no gap.
Q: I can only investigate the mind with the mind.
M: By all means use your mind to know your mind. It
is perfectly legitimate and also the best preparation
for going beyond the mind. Being, knowing and
enjoying is your own. First realise your own being.
This is easy because the sense 'I am' is always with
you. Then meet yourself as the knower, apart from
the known. Once you know yourself as pure being,
the ecstasy of freedom is your own.
Q: Which Yoga is this?
M: Why worry? What makes you come here is your
being displeased with your life as you know it, the
life of your body and mind. You may try to improve
them, through controlling and bending them to an
ideal, or you may cut the knot of self-identification
altogether and look at your body and mind as
something that happens without committing you in
any way.
Q: Shall I call the way of control and discipline raja
yoga and the way of detachment -- gnana yoga?
And the worship of an ideal -- bhakti yoga?
M: If it pleases you. Words indicate, but do not
480
hogy az els lpsek a fejedre omlasztjk a tett, de
a zrzavar hamarosan ki fog tisztulni, s bke s
rm lesz. Annyi mindent tudsz nmagadrl, de az
ismert nem ismered. Fedezd fel ki vagy, az ismert
ismerjt. Nzz befel szorgalmasan, ne felejts
emlkezni r, hogy az szlelt nem lehet azonos az
szlelvel. Akrmit ltsz, hallasz, vagy gondolsz,
emlkezz te nem az vagy, ami trtnik, te az vagy,
akinek a szmra az trtnik. ss le mlyen az n
vagyok rzsbe, s biztosan fel fogod fedezni,
hogy az szlelsi kzpont univerzlis, olyan
univerzlis, mint a fny, amely megvilgtja a vilgot.
Minden, ami az univerzumban trtnik, az neked, a
csendes tannak trtnik. Msfell, brmi trtnik,
ltalad, az univerzlis, s kiapadhatatlan energia
ltal trtnik.
K: Ktsgtelenl nagy rm hallani, hogy az ember
a csendes tan, s az univerzlis energia. De hogy
tudom a verblis kijelentst kzvetlen tudsra
vltani? A halls nem tuds.
M: Mieltt brmit is kzvetlenl, nonverblisan
tudhatnl, tudnod kell, ki az ismer. Ez ideig az
elmt tartottad az ismernek, de ez ppen, hogy
nem gy van. Az elme kpekkel s idekkal terhel,
amelyek nyomokat hagynak az emlkezetben. Az
emlkezst tartod tudsnak. Az igazi tuds rkk
friss, j, vratlan. Bellrl fakad. Amikor tudod, hogy
mi vagy, akkor az is vagy, amit tudsz. A tuds s a
lt kztt nincsen szakadk.
K: Csak az elmvel tudom tanulmnyozni az elmt.
M: Persze, hasznld az elmdet, hogy megismerd
az elmdet. Ez tkletesen rendben van, s ahhoz
is a legjobb elkszlet, hogy meghaladd az elmt.
Lt, tuds s rm a te sajtjaid. Elszr realizld
sajt ltedet. Ez knny, mert az n vagyok rzse
mindig veled van. Azutn fogadd el nmagad, mint
az ismerttl klnvl ismert. Amint tiszta ltknt
ismered nmagad, a szabadsg elragadtatsa a te
sajtod.
K: Melyik Yoga ez?
M: Mi a gond? Az ksztetett r, hogy ide gyere,
hogy nem tetszik az leted, ahogy azt ismered, a
tested, s elmd lete. Kontrolllsuk, s az idelis
fel kzeltsk rvn megprblhatsz javtani
rajtuk, vagy tvghatod az nazonossg gordiuszi
csomjt, s tekintheted testedet s elmdet
olyasvalaminek, ami nincs rd bzva, semmilyen
mdon.
K: Nevezhetem a kontrollls tjt s tudomnyt
raja yognak, s a prtatlansg tjt gnana
yognak? s az idelis imdst bhakti yognak?
M: Ha ez neked rmet okoz. A szavak rmutatnak,
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
explain. What I teach is the ancient and simple way
of liberation through understanding. Understand
your own mind and its hold on you will snap. The
mind misunderstands, misunderstanding is its very
nature. Right understanding is the only remedy,
whatever name you give it. It is the earliest and also
the latest, for it deals with the mind as it is.
Nothing you do will change you, for you need no
change. You may change your mind or your body,
but it is always something external to you that has
changed, not yourself. Why bother at all to change?
Realise once for all that neither your body nor your
mind, nor even your consciousness is yourself and
stand alone in your true nature beyond
consciousness and unconsciousness. No effort can
take you there, only the clarity of understanding.
Trace your misunderstandings and abandon them,
that is all. There is nothing to seek and find, for there
is nothing lost. Relax and watch the 'I am'. Reality is
just behind it. Keep quiet, keep silent; it will emerge,
or, rather, it will take you in.
Q: Must I not get rid of my body and mind first?
M: You cannot, for the very idea binds you to them.
Just understand and disregard.
Q: I am unable to disregard, for I am not integrated.
M: Imagine you are completely integrated, your
thought and action fully co-ordinated. How will it help
you? It will not free you from mistaking yourself to be
the body or the mind. See them correctly as 'not
you', that is all.
Q: You want me to remember to forget.
M: Yes, it looks so. Yet, it is not hopeless. You can
do it. Just set about it in earnest. Your blind groping
is full of promise. Your very searching is the finding.
You cannot fail.
Q: Because we are disintegrated, we suffer.
M: We shall suffer as long as our thoughts and
actions are prompted by desires and fears. See their
futility and the danger and chaos they create will
subside. Don't try to reform yourself, just see the
futility of all change. The changeful keeps on
changing while the changeless is waiting. Do not
expect the changeful, to take you to the changeless
-- it can never happen. Only when the very idea of
481
de nem adnak magyarzatot. n a megrtsen
keresztl trtn megszabaduls si s egyszer
mdszert tantom. rtsd meg sajt elmdet, s ha
kitart vagy, elred. Az elme flrert, valjban a
flrerts a termszete. A helyes megrts az
egyetlen gygyszer, brmilyen nven nevezed. Ez a
legkorbbi, s a legjabb is, mert gy foglalkozik az
elmvel, ahogyan az van.
Semmit nem fogsz megvltoztatni, mert nincs
szksged vltozsra. Megvltoztathatod elmdet,
vagy testedet, de ami vltozik, az mindig valamilyen
hozzd kpest kls dolog, nem te. Egyltaln mirt
veszdsz a vltozssal? Realizld egyszer s
mindenkorra, hogy sem tested, sem elmd, de mg
tudatossgod sem te vagy, s hogy igaz
termszetedben egyedl llsz tudatossgon s
tudattalansgon tl. Semmilyen erfeszts ltal
nem juthatsz oda, csak a megrts vilgossga
ltal. Nyomozd ki flrertseidet, s hagyd el ket,
ez minden. Semmi nincs, amit keresni, s tallni
kellene, mert semmit nem vesztettl el. Lazts, s
figyeld az n vagyok-ot. A valsg kzvetlenl
mgtte van. Lgy csendben, lgy csendes; meg
fog jelenni, vagyis inkbb magba fog fogadni.
K: Nem kell, hogy testemtl s elmmtl
megszabaduljak elbb?
M: Nem tudsz, mert ppen az idea kt hozzjuk.
Csak rtsd meg, s hagyd figyelmen kvl.
K: Kptelen vagyok figyelmen kvl hagyni, mert
nem vagyok integrlt.
M: Kpzeld el, hogy teljesen integrlt vagy, hogy
gondolataid s cselekedeteid teljesen sszhangban
vannak. Milyen segtsget fog ez szmodra
jelenteni? Nem fog megszabadtani nmagad
flreismerstl, attl, hogy a test, illetve az elme
vagy. Lsd ezeket pontosan annak, ami nem te
vagy, ez minden.
K: Arra krsz, hogy emlkezzek felejteni.
M: Igen, gy valahogy. De azrt ez nem
remnytelen. Meg tudod csinlni. Csak llj hozz
komolyan. Vak tapogatzsod tele van grettel.
Valjban keressed a talls. Nem tudsz hibzni.
K: Dezintegrltsgunk miatt szenvednk.
M: Amg gondolatainkat s cselekedeteinket
vgyaink s flelmeink sarkalljk, szenvedni fogunk.
Lsd a haszontalansgukat, s a veszly s kosz
amit teremtenek, albb fog hagyni. Ne prbld
talaktani nmagad, csak lsd minden vltozs
hasztalansgt. A vltozkony llandan vltozik,
mg a vltozatlan vrakozik. Ne vrd el, hogy a
vltozkony vigyen el tged a vltozhatatlanhoz ez
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
changing is seen as false and abandoned, the
changeless can come into its own.
Q: Everywhere I go, l am told that I must change
profoundly before I can see the real. This process of
deliberate, self-imposed change is called Yoga.
M: All change affects the mind only. To be what you
are, you must go beyond the mind, into your own
being. It is immaterial what is the mind that you
leave behind, provided you leave it behind for good.
This again is not possible without self-realisation.
Q: What comes first -- the abandoning of the mind or K: Mi jn elszr az elme feladsa, vagy az
self-realisation? nmegvalsts?
M: Self-realisation definitely comes first. The mind
cannot go beyond itself by itself. It must explode.
Q: No exploration before explosion?
M: The explosive power comes from the real. But
you are well advised to have your mind ready for it.
Fear can always delay it, until another opportunity
arises.
Q: I thought there is always a chance.
M: In theory -- yes. In practice a situation must arise,
when all the factors necessary for self-realisation are
present. This need not I discourage you. Your
dwelling on the fact of 'I am' will soon create another
chance. For, attitude attracts opportunity. All you
know is second-hand. Only I am' is first-hand and
needs no proofs. Stay with it.
100. Understanding leads to Freedom
Questioner: In many countries of the world
investigating officers follow certain practices aimed
at extracting confessions from their victim and also
changing his personality, if needed. By a judicious
choice of physical and moral deprivations and by
persuasions the old personality is broken down and
a new personality established in its place. The man
under investigation hears so many times repeated
that he is an enemy of the State and a traitor to his
country, that a day comes when something breaks
down in him and he begins to feel with full conviction
that he is a traitor, a rebel, altogether despicable and
deserving the direst punishment. This process is
known as brain-washing.
482
soha nem trtnhet meg. Csak miutn a vltozs
idejt teljesen hamisnak ltod, s elveted, akkor
fog a vltozhatatlan az rkbe lpni.
K: Brmerre jrok, azt hallom, hogy mlyrehatan
meg kell vltoznom, mieltt meglthatnm a
valsgot. Ezt az tgondolt, nknt vllalt vltozsi
folyamatot nevezik Yognak.
M: Minden vltozs az elmre hat csupn. Ahhoz,
hogy az lgy, ami vagy, tl kell lpned az elmn,
bele sajt ltedbe. Lnyegtelen, hogy mi az elme,
amit magad mgtt hagysz, feltve, hogy egyszer s
mindenkorra magad mgtt hagyod. Ez megint csak
nem lehetsges nmegvalsts nlkl.
M: Az nmegvalsts felttlenl elszr jn. Az
elme nem tud nmagtl tllpni nmagn. Fel kell,
hogy robbannjon.
K: Nincs felderts a robbans eltt?
M: A robbant er a valsgbl szrmazik. De te jl
megfontoltan felkszted r az elmdet. A flelem
mindig ksleltetni tudja, mg msik lehetsg nem
addik.
K: Gondoltam, mindig van egy esly.
M: Elmletben igen. Gyakorlatban egy olyan
helyzetnek kell addnia, amikor az nmegvalsts
sszes szksges sszetevje jelen van. Ez nem
szabad, hogy elcsggesszen. Az n vagyok tnyn
val idzsed hamarosan msik eslyt fog
teremteni. Mert a hozzlls lehetsget vonz. Csak
az n vagyok val els kzbl, s nem ignyel
bizonytkot. Tartzkodj benne.
100. A megrts szabadsghoz vezet
Krdez: A vilg sok orszgban alkalmaznak
vizsgl tisztek olyan gyakorlatokat, melyek clja
ldozataik vallomsra brsa, valamint
szemlyisgk megvltoztatsa, ha szksges.
Fizikai s morlis szksgletek megvonsnak
megfontolt megvlasztsval s meggyzssel a
rgi szemlyisg sszeomlik, s egy j szemlyisg
lp a helybe. A vizsglat alatt ll embernek olyan
sokszor elismtlik, hogy az llam ellensge, s
orszgnak rulja, hogy eljn a nap, amikor valami
sszetrik benne, s teljes meggyzdssel azt
kezdi rezni, hogy egy rul, egy lzad, teljesen
megvetsre mlt, s rszolglt a legszrnybb
bntetsre. Ezt a folyamatot ismerik agymossknt.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
It struck me that the religious and Yogic practices
are very similar to 'brain-washing'. The same
physical and mental deprivation, solitary
confinement, a powerful sense of sin, despair and a
desire to escape through expiation and conversion,
adoption of a new image of oneself and
impersonating that image. The same repetition of set
formulas: 'God is good; the Guru (party) knows; faith
will save me.' In the so-called Yogic or religious
practices the same mechanism operates. The mind
is made to concentrate on some particular idea to
the exclusion of all other ideas and concentration is
powerfully reinforced by rigid discipline and painful
austerities. A high price in life and happiness is paid
and what one gets in return appears therefore, to be
of great importance. This prearranged conversion,
obvious or hidden, religious or political, ethical or
social, may look genuine and lasting, yet there is a
feeling of artificiality about it.
Maharaj: You are quite right. By undergoing so
many hardships the mind gets dislocated and
immobilised. Its condition becomes precarious;
whatever it undertakes, ends in a deeper bondage.
Q: Then why are sadhanas prescribed?
M: Unless you make tremendous efforts, you will not
be convinced that effort will take you nowhere. The
self is so self confident, that unless it is totally
discouraged, it will not give up. Mere verbal
conviction is not enough. Hard facts alone can show
the absolute nothingness of the self-image.
Q: The brain-washer drives me mad, and the Guru
drives me sane. The driving is similar. Yet the
motive and the purpose are totally different. The
similarities are, perhaps merely verbal.
M: Inviting, or compelling to suffer contains in it
violence and the fruit of violence cannot be sweet.
There are certain life situations, inevitably painful,
and you have to take them in your stride. There are
also certain situations which you have created,
either deliberately or by neglect. And from these you
have to learn a lesson so that they are not repeated
again.
Q: It seems that we must suffer, so that we learn to
overcome pain.
M: Pain has to be endured. There is no such thing
as overcoming the pain and no training is needed.
Training for the future, developing attitudes is a sign
of fear.
483
Szerintem a vallsos ember, s a Yoga gyakorlja
nagyon hasonl, mint egy agymosott. Ugyanaz a
fizikai s mentlis nlklzs, magnzrka, a bn
intenzv rzse, ktsgbeess, s a vgy, hogy
vezeklsen keresztl menekljn, s megtrjen,
elfogadjon egy j nkpet, s megszemlyestse ezt
a kpet. Ugyangy az ismtld formulk halmaza:
Isten j; a Guru (gylekezet) tudja; a hit megment
engem. Az gynevezett Yoga, illetve a vallsos
gyakorlatok ugyanazon elven mkdnek. Az elmt
arra knyszertik, hogy valamilyen konkrt idera
koncentrljon, hogy minden ms idet kizrjon, s
szigor fegyelemmel, fjdalmas nsanyargatssal
erstse a koncentrcit. Nagy rat fizetnek let s
boldogsg tern, s az ezrt remlhet jutalomnak
nagyon fontosnak kell lennie. Ez az elre
elrendezett, szembetn vagy rejtett, vallsos vagy
politikai, etikai vagy trsadalmi talakuls, lehet,
hogy hitelesnek s tartsnak ltszik, mgis egy
mesterkltsg rzs merl fel vele kapcsolatban.
Maharaj: Teljesen igazad van. Ha az elme oly sok
viszontagsgon megy keresztl, sszezavarodik s
megbnul. llapota bizonytalann vlik; akrmibe
belefog, annak a vge mg mlyebb ktelk.
K: Akkor mirt vannak elrendelt sadhank?
M: Hacsak nem teszel iszony erfesztseket, nem
leszel rla meggyzdve, hogy az erfeszts nem
vezet sehov. Az n annyira nhitt, hogy hacsak
teljesen el nem btortalanodik, nem fogja feladni.
Puszta verblis meggyzs nem elegend. Szigor
tnyek tudjk csak megmutatni az nkp abszolt
jelentktelensgt.
K: Az agymoss az rltsgemhez, a Guru pedig az
pelmjsgemhez vezet. A vezets a hasonlsg.
De a motvum s a cl teljesen ms. A
hasonlsgok valsznleg pusztn verblisak.
M: A szenvedsre val sztnzs, vagy
knyszerts erszakot foglal magban, s az
erszak gymlcse nem lehet des.
Bizonyos szitucik szksgszeren fjdalmasak,
s ezt el kell fogadnod. Ms szitucikat te hoztl
ltre, akr szndkosan, akr hanyagsgbl. s
ezekbl gy kell megtanulnod a leckt, hogy az ne
ismtldjn ismt.
K: gy tnik, azrt kell szenvednnk, hogy
megtanuljunk uralkodni a fjdalom felett.
M: A fjdalmat el kell viselni. Olyan, mint fjdalom
uralsa, nem ltezik, s edzsre sincs szksg. A
jvre val elkszlet, attitdk fejlesztse, a
flelem jele.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: Once I know how to face pain, I am free of it, not
afraid of it, and therefore happy. This is what
happens to a prisoner. He accepts his punishment
as just and proper and is at peace with the prison
authorities and the State. All religions do nothing
else but preach acceptance and surrender. We are
being encouraged to plead guilty, to feel responsible
for all the evils in the world and point at ourselves as
their only cause. My problem is: I cannot see much
difference between brain-washing and sadhana,
except that in the case of sadhana one is not
physically constrained. The element of compulsive
suggestion is present in both.
M: As you have said, the similarities are superficial.
You need not harp on them.
Q: Sir, the similarities are not superficial. Man is a
complex being and can be at the same time the
accuser and the accused, the judge, the warden and
the executioner. There is not much that is voluntary
in a 'voluntary' sadhana. One is moved by forces
beyond one's ken and control. I can change my
mental metabolism as little as the physical, except
by painful and protracted efforts -- which is Yoga. All
I am asking is: does Maharaj agree with me that
Yoga implies violence?
M: I agree that Yoga, as presented by you, means
violence and I never advocate any form of violence.
My path is totally non-violent. I mean exactly what I
say: non-violent. Find out for yourself what it is. I
merely say: it is non-violent.
Q: I am not misusing words. When a Guru asks me
to meditate sixteen hours a day for the rest of my
life, I cannot do it without extreme violence to
myself. Is such a Guru right or wrong?
M: None compels you to meditate sixteen hours a
day, unless you feel like doing so. It is only a way of
telling you: 'remain with yourself, don't get lost
among others'. The teacher will wait, but the mind is
impatient.
It is not the teacher, it is the mind that is violent and Nem a tanr, hanem az elme erszakos, s fl is
also afraid of its own violence. What is of the mind is sajt erszaktl. Az elme dolgai viszonylagosak,
relative, it is a mistake to make it into an absolute.
Q: If I remain passive, nothing will change. If I am
active, I must be violent. What is it I can do which is
neither sterile nor violent?
484
K: Amint a fjdalommal szembeslni tudok,
szabadd vltam vele szemben, nem flek tle, s
ezrt boldog vagyok. Ez trtnik a bebrtnztt
rabbal is. Bntetst jogos s helyes dolognak
fogadja el, s bkben van a brtnhatsggal, s
az llammal. A vallsok egyebet sem csinlnak,
csak elfogadsrl, s megadsrl prdiklnak. Arra
sztnznek, hogy bnsnek valljuk magunkat,
hogy felelsnek rezzk magunkat a vilg minden
gonoszsgrt, s magunkra mutogassunk, mint
azok egyetlen okra. A problmm: nem ltok sok
klnbsget az agymoss, s a sadhana kztt,
kivve, hogy a sadhana nem korltozza az embert
fizikailag. A knyszert szuggeszti mindkettben
jelen van.
M: Ahogy mondtad, a hasonlsgok felszniek. Ne
lovagolj ezeken.
K: Uram, a hasonlsgok nem felszniek. Az ember
egy sszetett lny, s egy idben lehet a vdl, s a
vdlott, a br, a brtnigazgat, s a hhr. Nincs
ilyen sok nkntes egy nkntes sadhanban. Az
embert erszakkal mozgatjk ltkrn s
ellenrzsn tlra. Mentlis anyagcsermet legalbb
olyan kevss tudom megvltoztatni, mint a fizikait,
hacsak nem olyan fjdalmas s hosszadalmas
erfesztsekkel mint a Yoga. Mindssze azt
krdezem: egyetrt-e velem Maharaj, hogy a Yoga
erszakot foglal magban?
M: Egyetrtek, hogy a Yoga, ahogyan bemutattad,
erszakot jelent, s n soha nem tmogatom az
erszak semmilyen formjt. Az n utam teljesen
erszakmentes. Pontosan gy rtem, ahogy
mondom: erszakmentes. Fejtsd meg magad, hogy
mi ez. n azt mondom csupn: erszakmentes.
K: Nem beszlek flre. Amikor egy Guru arra kr,
hogy letem htralv rszben napi tizenhat rt
meditljak, nem tudom megcsinlni nmagammal
szembeni szlssges erszak nlkl. Az ilyen Guru
j, vagy rossz?
M: Senki nem knyszert, hogy napi tizenhat rt
meditlj, ha neked nincs hozz kedved. Ez csak egy
mdja, hogy kzljk veled: maradj nmagaddal, ne
vessz el a tbbi kztt. A tant vrni fog, csak az
elme trelmetlen.
tveds azokat abszoltt tenni.
K: Ha passzv maradok, semmi nem vltozik. Ha
aktv vagyok, erszakosnak kell lennem. Mi olyat
tehetek, ami se nem termketlen, se nem
erszakos?
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
M: Of course, there is a way which is neither violent
nor sterile and yet supremely effective. Just look at
yourself as you are, see yourself as you are, accept
yourself as you are and go ever deeper into what
you are. Violence and non-violence describe your
attitude to others; the self in relation to itself is
neither violent nor non-violent, it is either aware or
unaware of itself. If it knows itself, all it does will be
right; if it does not, all it does will be wrong.
Q: What do you mean by saying: I know myself as I
am?
M: Before the mind -- I am. 'I am' is not a thought in
the mind; the mind happens to me, I do not happen
to the mind. And since time and space are in the
mind, I am beyond time and space, eternal and
omnipresent.
Q: Are you serious? Do you really mean that you
exist everywhere and at all times?
M: Yes, I do. To me it is as obvious, as the freedom
of movement is to you. Imagine a tree asking a
monkey: 'Do you seriously mean that you can move
from place to place?' And the monkey saying: 'Yes. I
do.'
Q: Are you also free from causality? Can you
produce miracles?
M: The world itself is a miracle. I am beyond
miracles -- I am absolutely normal. With me
everything happens as it must. I do not interfere with
creation. Of what use are small miracles to me when
the greatest of miracles is happening all the time?
Whatever you see it is always your own being that
you see. Go ever deeper into yourself, seek within,
there is neither violence nor non-violence in self-
discovery. The destruction of the false is not
violence.
Q: When I practice self-enquiry, or go within with the K: Amikor gyakorlom az nkutatst, vagy azzal az
idea that it will profit me in some way or other, I am ideval haladok befel, hogy az hasznos lesz
still escaping from what I am. szmomra ilyen-olyan mdon, mg mindig az ell
meneklk, ami vagyok.
M: Quite right. True enquiry is always into
something, not out of something. When I enquire
how to get, or avoid something, I am not really
inquiring. To know anything I must accept it -- totally.
Q: Yes, to know God I must accept God -- how
frightening.
M: Before you can accept God, you must accept
yourself, which is even more frightening. The first
485
M: Termszetesen van mdszer, mely se nem
erszakos, se nem termketlen, s mgis pratlanul
hatkony. Csak nzz nmagadra, amint vagy, lsd
nmagadat, ahogy vagy, fogadd el nmagadat,
ahogy vagy, s hatolj egyre mlyebbre abba, ami
vagy. Erszak s erszakmentessg a msok irnti
attitddet rja le; az n nmagval kapcsolatban se
nem erszakos, se nem erszakmentes, vagy
tudatban van, vagy nincs tudatban nmagnak.
Ha ismeri nmagt, minden cselekedete helyes, ha
nem, minden cselekedete rossz lesz.
K: Hogy rted, mikor azt mondod: n vagyokknt
ismerem magamat?
M: Mieltt az elme lett n vagyok. Az n vagyok
nem egy gondolat az elmben; az elme trtnik az
n szmomra, nem n trtnek az elme szmra.
s mivel tr s id az elmben vannak, n idn s
tren tli, rk, s mindentt jelenval vagyok.
K: Komolyan beszlsz? Komolyan gy gondolod,
hogy te mindenhol, s minden idben ltezel?
M: Igen, komolyan. Szmomra ez olyan nyilvnval,
mint szmodra a mozgs szabadsga. Kpzeld el,
amint egy fa megkrdezi egy majomtl: Komolyan
gy gondolod, hogy egyik helyrl a msikra tudsz
mozogni? s a majom azt mondja: Igen, komolyan.
K: Kauzalitstl mentes is vagy? Kpes vagy
csodkra?
M: A vilg nmaga csoda. n tl vagyok a csodkon
n abszolte normlis vagyok. Szmomra minden
gy trtnik, ahogy kell. Nem avatkozom a teremts
dolgaiba. Mi haszna kis csodknak szmomra,
amikor a legnagyobb csoda zajlik szakadatlanul?
Brmit is lss, mindig a te sajt lnyed az, amit ltsz.
Merlj egyre mlyebbre nmagadban, keress bell,
sem erszakot, sem erszakmentessget nem
tallsz az nfelfedezs sorn. A hamis
megsemmistse nem erszak.
M: gy van. A valdi nkutats mindig valamibe
befel, nem valamibl kifel irnyul. Amikor azt
kutatom, hogyan szerezzek meg, vagy kerljek el
valamit, valjban nem kutatok. Ahhoz, hogy
ismerjek valamit, el kell fogadnom azt teljesen.
K: Igen, Isten megismershez el kell fogadnom
Istent milyen ijeszt.
M: Mieltt Istent el tudnd fogadni, nmagadat kell
elfogadnod, ami mg ijesztbb. Az nelfogads els
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
steps in self acceptance are not at all pleasant, for
what one sees is not a happy sight. One needs all
the courage to go further. What helps is silence.
Look at yourself in total silence, do not describe
yourself. Look at the being you believe you are and
remember -- you are not what you see. 'This I am
not -- what am l?' is the movement of self-enquiry.
There are no other means to liberation, all means
delay. Resolutely reject what you are not, till the real
Self emerges in its glorious nothingness, its 'not-a-
thingness.'
Q: The world is passing through rapid and critical
changes. We can see them with great clarity in the
United States, though they happen in other
countries. There is an increase in crime on one hand
and more genuine holiness on the other.
Communities are being formed and some of them
are on a very high level of integrity and austerity. It
looks as if evil is destroying itself by its own
successes, like a fire which consumes its fuel, while
the good, like life, perpetuates itself.
M: As long as you divide events into good and evil, M: Amg az esemnyeket jkra s gonoszokra
you may be right. In fact, good becomes evil and evil osztod, igazad lehet. Csakugyan, a j gonossz, s
becomes good by their own fulfilment. a gonosz jv vlik, sajt beteljesedse rvn.
Q: What about love?
M: When it turns to lust, it becomes destructive.
Q: What is lust?
M: Remembering -- imagining -- anticipating. It is
sensory and verbal. A form of addiction.
Q: Is brahmacharya, continence, imperative in
Yoga?
M: A life of constraint and suppression is not Yoga.
Mind must be free of desires and relaxed. It comes
with understanding, not with determination, which is
but another form of memory. An understanding mind
is free of desires and fears.
Q: How can I make myself understand?
M: By meditating which means giving attention.
Become fully aware of your problem, look at it from
all sides, watch how it affects your life. Then leave it
alone. You can't do more than that.
Q: Will it set me free?
M: You are free from what you have understood.
The outer expressions of freedom may take time to
486
lpsei egyltaln nem kellemesek, mert amit ltsz,
az nem egy boldog ltvny. Szksged van minden
btorsgodra, hogy tovbb menj. Ami segt, az a
csend. Nzz nmagadra teljes csndben, ne rd le
nmagad. Nzz arra a lnyre, aminek hiszed
magad, s emlkezz nem az vagy, amit ltsz. Ez
nem n vagyok mi vagyok n? ez az nkutats
szellemi indtka. Nincsenek egyb eszkzei a
megszabadulsnak, minden eszkz ksleltet.
Hatrozottan utastsd el, ami nem vagy, mg a valdi
n fel nem bukkan az ragyog semmisgben, az
sem-mi-sgben.
K: A vilg gyors s kritikus vltozsokon megy
keresztl. Ezeket az Egyeslt llamokban nagyon
tisztn lthatjuk, habr ms orszgokban is
elfordulnak. Egyfell nvekszik a bncselekmnyek
szma, msfell tbb hiteles szentsget lthatunk.
Kzssgek alakulnak, s nmelyik az integrits s
vezekls nagyon magas szintjn ll. gy ltszik,
mintha a gonosz nmagt puszttan sajt
sikereivel, akr a tz, mely elemszti tzelanyagt,
mg a j, mint az let, fenntartja nmagt.
K: Mi a vlemnyed a szeretetrl?
M: Amikor parznasgba fordul, akkor destruktvv
vlik.
K: Mi a parznasg?
M: Emlkezs kpzelds elre lts. rzki, s
verblis. A fggsg egy formja.
K: Elrs a Yogban a brahmacharya, az
nmegtartztats?
M: A knyszerek s tiltsok lete nem Yoga. Az
elmnek meg kell szabadulnia a vgyaktl, s
lazv kell vlnia. Ez megrtssel kvetkezik be,
nem elhatrozssal, amely csak egy msik formja
az emlkezetnek. A megrtsre jutott elme
vgyaktl s flelmektl mentes.
K: Hogyan juthatok megrtshez?
M: Meditcival, ami figyelemben rszestst jelent.
Lgy teljesen tudatban a problmdnak, nzd meg
azt minden oldalrl, figyeld meg, hogyan hat az
letedre. Majd hagyd magra. Ennl tbbet nem
tudsz tenni.
K: Ez szabadd fog tenni?
M: Attl vagy szabad, amit megrtettl. A szabadsg
kls megnyilvnulsainak megjelense idt vehet
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
appear, but they are already there. Do not expect
perfection. There is no perfection in manifestation.
Details must clash. No problem is solved completely,
but you can withdraw from it to a level on which it
does not operate.
101. Gnani does not Grasp, nor Hold
Questioner: How does the gnani proceed when he
needs something to be done? Does he make plans,
decide about details and execute them?
Maharaj: Gnani understands a situation fully and
knows at once what needs be done. That is all. The
rest happens by itself, and to a large extent
unconsciously. The gnanis identity with all that is, is
so complete, that as he responds to the universe, so
does the universe respond to him. He is supremely
confident that once a situation has been cognised,
events will move in adequate response. The
ordinary man is personally concerned, he counts his
risks and chances, while the gnani remains aloof,
sure that all will happen as it must; and it does not
matter much what happens, for ultimately the return
to balance and harmony is inevitable. The heart of
things is at peace.
Q: I have understood that personality is an illusion,
and alert detachment, without loss of identity, is our
point of contact with the reality. Will you, please, tell
me -- at this moment are you a person or a self-
aware identity?
M: I am both. But the real self cannot be described
except in terms supplied by the person, in terms of
what I am not. All you can tell about the person is
not the self, and you can tell nothing about the self,
which would not refer to the person; as it is, as it
could be, as it should be. All attributes are personal.
The real is beyond all attributes.
Q: Are you sometimes the self and sometimes the
person?
M: How can I be? The person is what I appear to be
to other persons. To myself I am the infinite expanse
of consciousness in which innumerable persons
emerge and disappear in endless succession.
Q: How is it that the person, which to you is quite
illusory, appears real to us?
487
ignybe, de mr jelen vannak. Ne vrd el a
tkletessget. A megnyilvnulsban nincs
tkletessg. A rszletek ssze kelll, hogy
tkzzenek. Semmilyen problma nem oldhat meg
teljesen, viszont vissza tudsz hzdni elle egy
olyan szintre, ahol mr nem befolysol.
101. A Gnani nem ragad s nem tart meg
semmit
Krdez: Hogyan jr el a gnani, mikor valamit
megcsinlnia szksges? Terveket kszt, dnt a
rszletek fell, majd vgrehajtja azokat?
Maharaj: A gnani teljesen tltja a helyzetet, s
azonnal tudja, hogy mit kell csinlnia. Ez minden. A
tbbi megtrtnik nmagtl, s egszben vve
tudattalanul. A gnani minden ltezvel val
nazonossga annyira teljes, hogy ahogyan hat az
univerzumra, gy hat az univerzum r. A
legteljesebb mrtkben biztos benne, hogy mihelyt
felismerte a szitucit, az esemnyek a megfelel
mdon fognak alakulni. Az tlagember szemlyesen
rintett, kockzatait s eslyeit latolgatja, mg a
gnani kzmbs marad, biztos benne, hogy minden
gy fog trtnni, ahogy kell; s nem sokat szmt
neki, hogy mi trtnik, mert vgl is az egyensly, s
a harmnia helyrellsa elkerlhetetlen. A dolgok
szve bkben van.
K: gy tudom, hogy a szemlyisg illzi, s a
valsggal az nazonossg elvesztse nlkli ber
prtatlansg pontjban rintkeznk. Lgy szves,
ruld el nekem e pillanatban te szemly vagy,
vagy egy ntudatos identits?
M: Mindkett. De a valdi n nem rhat le, csak a
szemly knlta kifejezseken kvl, csak annak
kifejezseivel, ami nem vagyok. Mindssze annyit
mondhatsz a szemlyrl, hogy az nem az n, s
nem tudsz semmi olyat mondani az nrl, ami ne a
szemlyre vonatkozna; ahogy az van, ahogy az
lehetne, ahogy annak lennie kell. Minden
tulajdonsg szemlyes. A valsg minden
tulajdonsgot meghalad.
K: Idnknt az n, idnknt pedig a szemly vagy?
M: Hogy lehetnk? A szemly az, aminek ms
szemlyek szmra megjelenek. nmagam
szmra n a tudatossg vgtelen kiterjedse
vagyok, amelyben megszmllhatatlan szemly
jelenik meg, s tnik el, vgtelen egymsutnban.
K: A szemly, amely szmodra teljesen illuzrikus,
mikppen jelenik meg szmunkra valdiknt?
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
M: You, the self, being the root of all being,
consciousness and joy, impart your reality to
whatever you perceive. This imparting of reality
takes place invariably in the now, at no other time,
because past and future are only in the mind. Being'
applies to the now only.
Q: Is not eternity endless too?
M: Time is endless, though limited, eternity is in the
split moment of the now. We miss it because the
mind is ever shuttling between the past and the
future. It will not stop to focus the now. It can be
done with comparative ease, if interest is aroused.
Q: What arouses interest?
M: Earnestness, the sign of maturity.
Q: And how does maturity come about?
M: By keeping your mind clear and clean, by living
your life in full awareness of every moment as it
happens, by examining and dissolving one's desires
and fears as soon as they arise.
Q: Is such concentration at all possible?
M: Try. One step at a time is easy. Energy flows
from earnestness.
Q: I find I am not earnest enough.
M: Self-betrayal is a grievous matter. It rots the mind
like cancer. The remedy lies in clarity and integrity of
thinking. Try to understand that you live in a world of
illusions, examine them and uncover their roots. The
very attempt to do so will make you earnest, for
there is bliss in right endeavour.
Q: Where will it lead me?
M: Where can it lead you if not to its own perfection?
Once you are well-established in the now, you have
nowhere else to go what you are timelessly, you
express eternally.
Q: Are you one or many?
M: I am one, but appear as many.
Q: Why does one appear at all?
M: It is good to be, and to be conscious.
488
M: Az n, aki vagy, minden ltez, tudatossg s
rm gykere, te rszestesz valsgodban
mindent, amit szlelsz. Ez a valsgban rszests
megvltozhatatlanul a mostban megy vgbe, nem
ms idben, mert mlt s jv csak az elmben van.
A ltezs csak a mostra vonatkozik.
K: Az rkkvalsg nem vgtelen ugyangy?
M: Az id vgtelen, de korltozott, az rkkvalsg
a most pillanatnak a trt rsze. Nem talljuk, mert
az elme rkk a mlt s a jv kztt ingzik. Nem
fog megllni, hogy a mostra fkuszljon. Ez
viszonylag knnyedn megtehet, ha rdekldsed
felbred irnta.
K: Mi breszti fel az rdekldst?
M: A komolysg, mint az rettsg jele.
K: s hogyan kvetkezik be az rettsg?
M: gy, hogy elmdet vilgosan s tisztn tartod,
leted minden pillanatt teljes tudatossggal gy
led meg, ahogyan az trtnik, megvizsglva s
sztoszlatva a vgyakat, s flelmeket, mihelyt
felmerlnek.
K: Lehetsges ilyen koncentrci egyltaln?
M: Trekedj. Egy lps egyszerre knny. Energia
rad a komolysgbl.
K: Nem tallom magam elg komolynak.
M: Az n-cserbenhagys slyos problma.
Megrohasztja a lelket, akr a rk. A tisztasg s a
gondolkods integritsa a gygyszer. Trekedj,
hogy megrtsd, illzik vilgban lsz, vizsgld
meg, trd fel azok gykereit. A valdi trekvs a
megttelre komolly fog tenni tged, mert a helyes
erfesztsben boldogsg van.
K: Hov fog ez engem vezetni?
M: Hov tudna vezetni, ha nem sajt tkletesedse
fel? Amint jl megalapozott vagy a mostban, nem
kell sehov mshov menjen, ami idtlenl vagy,
amit rkkrvnyen kifejezel.
K: Egy, vagy sok vagy?
M: Egy vagyok, de sokknt jelenek meg.
K: Mirt jelenik meg egyltaln az ember?
M: Ltezni, s tudatosnak lenni j.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: Life is sad.
M: Ignorance causes sorrow. Happiness follows
understanding.
Q: Why should ignorance be painful?
M: It is at the root of all desire and fear, which are
painful states and the source of endless errors.
Q: I have seen people supposed to have realised,
laughing and crying. Does it not show that they are
not free of desire and fear?
M: They may laugh and cry according to
circumstances, but inwardly they are cool and clear,
watching detachedly their own spontaneous
reactions. Appearances are misleading and more so
in the case of a gnani.
Q: I do not understand you.
M: The mind cannot understand, for the mind is
trained for grasping and holding while the gnani is
not-grasping and not holding.
Q: What am I holding on to, which you do not?
M: You are a creature of memories; at least you
imagine yourself to be so. I am entirely unimagined.
I am what I am, not identifiable with any physical or
mental state.
Q: An accident would destroy your equanimity.
M: The strange fact is that it does not. To my own
surprise, I remain as I am -- pure awareness, alert to mdon, maradok aki vagyok tiszta tudat, minden
all that happens.
Q: Even at the moment of death?
M: What is it to me that the body dies?
Q: Don't you need it to contact the world?
M: I do not need the world. Nor am I in one. The
world you think of is in your own mind. I can see it
through your eyes and mind, but I am fully aware
that it is a projection of memories; it is touched by
the real only at the point of awareness, which can be
only now.
Q: The only difference between us seems to be that
while I keep on saying that I do not know my real
self, you maintain that you know it well; is there any
other difference between us?
M: There is no difference between us; nor can I say
489
K: Az let szomor.
M: A szomorsg oka a tudatlansg. A megrtst
boldogsg kveti.
K: Mirt kell a tudatlansgnak fjdalmasnak lennie?
M: Ez a gykere minden vgynak, s flelemnek,
melyek fjdalmas llapotok, s a vg nlkli
tvelygsek forrsa.
K: Lttam, hogy lltlag megvalsult emberek
nevetnek, s srnak. Ez nem annak a jele, hogy nem
mentesek a vgytl s flelemtl?
M: Nevethetnek s srhatnak, a krlmnyektl
fggen, de belsleg nyugodtak s tisztk, prtatlan
szemlli sajt spontn reakciiknak. A klssg
megtveszt, s a gnani esetben mg inkbb az.
K: Nem rtem.
M: Az elme nem rtheti, mert arra van nevelve, hogy
megragadjon s megtartson, mg a gnani nem ragad
s nem tart meg.
K: Mit tartok n meg, amit te nem?
M: Te az emlkek teremtmnye vagy; legalbbis gy
kpzeled, hogy az vagy. n egyltaln nem gy
kpzelem. Vagyok aki vagyok, ami semmilyen fizikai
vagy mentlis llapottal nem azonosthat.
K: Egy baleset biztos romba dnten a
higgadtsgodat.
M: Az a klns, hogy nem. Szmomra is meglep
trtnsre beren.
K: Mg a hall pillanatra is?
M: Mit nekem a test halla?
K: Nincs r szksged a vilggal val kapcsolathoz?
M: Nincs szksgem a vilgra. Egyben sem vagyok.
Az ltalad gondolt vilg csak a te elmdben van.
Ltom azt szemeiden s elmden keresztl, de
teljes tudatban vagyok, hogy az emlkek kivettse;
a valsggal csak a tudat pontjban rintkezik,
amely csak a mostban lehet.
K: Egyetlen klnbsgnek az tnik kzttnk, hogy
mg n azt lltom, hogy nem ismerem valdi
nemet, te fenntartod, hogy jl ismered azt; van
valamilyen ms klnbsg kzttnk?
M: Nincs kzttnk semmilyen klnbsg; n sem
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
that I know myself, I know that I am not describable mondhatom, hogy ismerem nmagam, tudom, hogy
nor definable. There is a vastness beyond the nem vagyok se lerhat, se definilhat. Egy
farthest reaches of the mind. That vastness is my vgtelensg van az elme legtvolabbi elrsn tl.
home; that vastness is myself. And that vastness is Ez a vgtelensg az otthonom; ez a vgtelensg
also love. vagyok n magam. s ez a vgtelensg szeretet is
egyben.

Q: You see love everywhere, while I see hatred and K: Te mindentt szeretetet ltsz, mg n gylletet,
suffering. The history of humanity is the history of s szenvedst. Az emberisg trtnete az egyni s
murder, individual and collective. No other living kollektv gyilkols trtnete. Semmilyen ms llny
being so delights in killing. nem gyilkol olyan lvezettel.

M: If you go into the motives, you will find love, love M: Ha az indtkokat keresed, szeretet fogsz tallni,
of oneself and of one's own. People fight for what nmagad, s az ember szeretett. Az emberek azrt
they imagine they love. harcolnak, amirl azt kpzelik, hogy szeretik.

Q: Surely their love must be real enough when they K: Szeretetknek biztos elg valsgosnak kell
are ready to die for it. lennie, ha kszek meghalni rte.

M: Love is boundless. What is limited to a few M: A szeretet hatrtalan. Amely szeretet kevesekre
cannot be called love. korltozott, nem nevezhet valdinak.

Q: Do you know such unlimited love? K: Te ismersz ilyen korltlan szeretetet?

M: Yes, l do. M: Igen, ismerek.

Q: How does it feel? K: Hogyan rez?

M: All is loved and lovable. Nothing is excluded. M: Minden szeretett, s szeretetre mlt. Nincs
kivtel.

Q: Not even the ugly and the criminal? K: Mg a csf, s a bns sem az?

M: All is within my consciousness; all is my own. It is M: Minden tudatossgomon bell van; minden az n
madness to split oneself through likes and dislikes. I sajtom. rltsg felosztani nmagamat szeretett s
am beyond both. I am not alienated. nem szeretett dolgokra. Mindkett fltt llok. Nem
vagyok elidegenedett.

Q: To be free from like and dislike is a state of K: A rokon- s ellenszenvtl val mentessg a
indifference. kzny llapota.

M: It may look and feel so in the beginning. M: Kezdetben gy lehet ltni s rezni. llhatatosan
Persevere in such indifference and it will blossom tarts ki az effajta a kznynl, s mindent betlt, s
into an all-pervading and all-embracing love. mindent tlel szeretett fog fejldni.

Q: One has such moments when the mind becomes K: Vannak pillanatok, mikor az elme kivirgzik, s
a flower and a flame, but they do not last and the life fellngol, de e pillanatok nem maradandak, s az
reverts to its daily greyness. let visszatr mindennapos szrkesghez.

M: Discontinuity is the law, when you deal with the
concrete. The continuous cannot be experienced, for
it has no borders. Consciousness implies alterations,
change followings change, when one thing or state
comes to an end and another begins; that which has
no borderline cannot be experienced in the common
meaning of the word. One can only be it, without
knowing, but one can know what it is not. It is
definitely not the entire content of consciousness
which is always on the move.
M: Diszkontinuits a trvny, amikor a konkrttal
bnsz. A folyamatos nem tapasztalhat, mert
nincsenek hatrai. A tudatossg talakulsokat
foglal magban, vltozs vltozst kvet, mikor egy
dolog vagy llapot vget r, s msik kezddik;
aminek nincs hatrvonala, az nem tapasztalhat a
sz kznsges rtelmben. Az ember csak annak
ismerete nlkl lehet az, de azt tudhatja, hogy mi
nem. Hatrozottan nem azonos a folytonos
mozgsban lv tudatossg teljes tartalmval.

490
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: If the immovable cannot be known, what is the
meaning and purpose of its realisation?
M: To realise the immovable means to become
immovable. And the purpose is the good of all that
lives.
Q: Life is movement. Immobility is death. Of what
use is death to life?
M: I am talking of immovability, not of immobility.
You become immovable in reticence. You become a
power which gets all things right. It may or may not
imply intense outward activity, but the mind remains
deep and quiet.
Q: As I watch my mind I find it changing all the time,
mood succeeding mood in infinite variety, while you
seem to be perpetually in the same mood of cheerful
benevolence.
M: Moods are in the mind and do not matter. Go
within, go beyond. Cease being fascinated by the
content of your consciousness. When you reach the
deep layers of your true being, you will find that the
mind's surface-play affects you very little.
Q: There will be play all the same?
M: A quiet mind is not a dead mind.
Q: Consciousness is always in movement -- it is an
observable fact. Immovable consciousness is a
contradiction. When you talk of a quiet mind, what is
it? Is not mind the same as consciousness?
M: We must remember that words are used in many
ways, according to the context. The fact is that there
is little difference between the conscious and the
unconscious --- they are essentially the same. The
waking state differs from deep sleep in the presence
of the witness. A ray of awareness illumines a part of
our mind and that part becomes our dream or
waking consciousness, while awareness appears as
the witness. The witness usually knows only
consciousness. Sadhana consists in the witness
turning back first on his conscious, then upon
himself in his own awareness. Self-awareness is
Yoga.
Q: If awareness is all-pervading, then a blind man,
once realised, can see?
M: You are mixing sensation with awareness. The
gnani knows himself as he is. He is also aware of his
body being crippled and his mind being deprived of
a range of sensory perceptions. But he is not
affected by the availability of eyesight, nor by its
491
K: Ha a megvltozhatatlan nem megismerhet,
akkor mi rtelme s clja a megvalstsnak?
M: A megvltozhatatlan megvalstsa
megvltozhatatlann vlst jelent. s a cl minden
lnek a java.
K: Az let mozgs. A mozdulatlansg hall. Hogyan
vlik hasznra a hall az letnek?
M: n megvltozhatatlansgrl beszlek, nem
mozdulatlansgrl. Megvltozhatatlann vlsz a
tartzkodsban. Erv vlsz, amely minden dolgot
rendbe hoz. Ez jrhat, lehet, hogy nem jr intenzv
kls tevkenysggel, de az elme mly, s csendes
marad.
K: Ahogy elmmet figyelem gy tallom, hogy
folyton vltozik, hangulat hangulatot kvet, vgtelen
vltozatossgban, mg te, gy ltszik, rksen
ugyanabban a dersen jindulat hangulatban vagy.
M: A hangulatok az elmben vannak, s
lnyegtelenek. Menj befel, haladd meg ket.
Szntesd meg a tudatossgod tartalma ltali igzet
llapott. Amikor az igaz lt mlyebb rtegeibe rsz,
gy fogod tallni, hogy az elme felszni jtkai
nagyon kevss hatnak rd.
K: Ott is ugyanazon jtkok lesznek?
M: A csendes elme nem halott elme.
K: A tudatossg mindig mozgsban van ez
megfigyelhet tny. A mozdulatlan tudatossg
ellentmonds. Amikor csendes elmrl beszlsz, az
mit jelent? Az elme nem a tudatossggal azonos?
M: Ne feledjk, hogy a szavakat sokfle mdon
hasznljuk, a szvegsszefggsnek megfelelen.
A tny az, hogy kicsi a klnbsg a tudatos s a
tudattalan kztt lnyegben ugyanazok. Az
brenlti llapot klnbzik a mly alvstl a tan
jelenltben. A tudat sugara megvilgtja elmnk
egy rszt, s az a rsz lmunkk, vagy brenlti
tudatossgunkk vlik, mg a tudat a tanknt
jelenik meg. A tan rendszerint csak a tudatossgot
ismeri. A sadhana abbl ll, hogy a tan elbb
vissza fordul sajt tudatossga fel, azutn nmaga
fel az sajt tudatban. Az n-tudat a Yoga.
K: Ha a tudat mindenre kiterjed, akkor a vilgtalan
ember ltni fog, amikor megvalsult vlik?
M: sszekevered az rzkelst a tudattal. A gnani
annak ismeri magt, ami. Tudja, ha teste nyomork,
s azt is, ha elmje rzki szlelsben valamilyen
mrtkben korltozott. De nem befolysolja sem a
lts kpessge, sem annak hinya.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
absence.

Q: My question is more specific; when a blind man K: Krdsem ennl sokkal konkrtabb; amikor egy
becomes a gnani will his eyesight be restored to him vak ember gnaniv vlik, ltsa visszatr, vagy
or not? sem?

M: Unless his eyes and brain undergo a renovation, M: Hacsak szemei s agya nem lett helyrelltva,
how can he see? hogyan lthatna?

Q: But will they undergo a renovation? K: De keresztl fog-e menni helyrelltson?

M: They may or may not. It all depends on destiny
and grace. But a gnani commands a mode of
spontaneous, non-sensory perception, which makes
him know things directly, without the intermediary of
the senses. He is beyond the perceptual and the
conceptual, beyond the categories of time and
space, name and shape. He is neither the perceived
nor the perceiver, but the simple and the universal
factor that makes perceiving possible. Reality is
within consciousness, but it is not consciousness nor
any of its contents.
M: Lehet, hogy igen, lehet, hogy nem. Minden a
vgzettl, s a kegyelemtl fgg. De a gnani
rendelkezik egy spontn mdszerrel, egy nem-
rzkszervi szlelssel, amely rvn kzvetlenl,
rzkszervek kzvettse nlkl ismeri a dolgokat.
az rzki, s a fogalmi fltt ll, tl van id s tr,
nv s forma kategriin. Nem azonos sem az
szlelvel, sem az szlelttel, hanem azzal az
egyszer, s univerzlis hatervel, amely az
szlelst lehetv teszi. A valsg a tudatossgon
bell van, de nem azonos sem a tudatossggal, sem
annak valamilyen tartalmval.

Q: What is false, the world, or my knowledge of it? K: Melyik hamis, a vilg, vagy az n tudsom rla?

M: Is there a world outside your knowledge? Can
you go beyond what you know? You may postulate
a world beyond the mind, but it will remain a
concept, unproved and unprovable. Your experience
is your proof, and it is valid for you only. Who else
can have your experience, when the other person is
only as real as he appears in your experience?
M: Kvl esik-e a vilg a tudsodon? Tl tudsz-e
lpni azon, amit tudsz? Felttelezheted a vilgot
elmden tlinak, de az meg fog maradni egy olyan
fogalomnak, amely nem bizonytott, s nem
bizonythat. A tapasztalatod a bizonytkod, s az
csak szmodra rvnyes. Ki ms rendelkezhet mg
a te tapasztalatoddal, mikor a msik szemly csak
annyira vals, amennyire a te tapasztalatodban
mutatkozik?

Q: Am I so hopelessly lonely? K: Ilyen remnytelenl magnyos vagyok?

M: You are. As a person. In your real being you are M: Az vagy. Szemlyknt. Valdi ltedben te vagy a
the whole. teljessg.

Q: Are you a part of the world which I have in K: A tudatossgomban lv vilg rsze vagy, vagy
consciousness, or are you independent? pedig fggetlen?

M: What you see is yours and what I see is mine. M: Amit te ltsz, a tid, s amit n, az enym.
The two have little in common. Kettejkben kevs a kzs.

Q: There must be some common factor which unites K: Kell, hogy legyen valamilyen kzs tnyez,
us. amely sszekapcsol bennnket.

M: To find the common factor you must abandon all M: Hogy a kzs tnyezt megtalld, el kell vetned
distinctions. Only the universal is in common. minden klnbsget. Csak az univerzlis lehet
kzs.

Q: What strikes me as exceedingly strange is that
while you say that I am merely a product of my
memories and woefully limited, I create a vast and
rich world in which everything is contained, including
you and your teaching. How this vastness is created
and contained in my smallness is what I find hard to
K: Rendkvl furcsllom, hogy mikzben azt
mondod, csupn emlkeim termke vagyok, s
sznalmasan korltozott, kzben egy risi vilgot
teremtek, mely mindent tartalmaz, belertve tged
s tantsodat is. Hogyan jtt ltre ez a vgtelensg,
s hogy tartalmazhatja azt az n cseklysgem,

492
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
understand. May be you are giving me the whole
truth, but I am grasping only a small part of it.
M: Yet, it is a fact -- the small projects the whole, but
it cannot contain the whole. However great and
complete is your world it is self-contradictory and
transitory and altogether illusory.
Q: It may be illusory yet it is marvellous. When I look
and listen, touch, smell and taste, think and feel,
remember and imagine, I cannot but be astonished
at my miraculous creativity. I look through a
microscope or telescope and see wonders, I follow
the track of an atom and hear the whisper of the
stars. If I am the sole creator of all this, then I am
God indeed. But if I am God, why do I appear so
small and helpless to myself?
M: You are God, but you do not know it.
Q: If I am God, then the world I create must be true.
M: It is true in essence, but not in appearance. Be
free of desires and fears and at once your vision will
clear and you shall see all things as they are. Or,
you may say that the satoguna creates the world,
the tamoguna obscures it and the rajoguna distorts.
Q: This does not tell me much, because if I ask what
are the gunas, the answer will be: what creates --
what obscures -- what distorts. The fact remains --
something unbelievable happened to me, and I do
not understand what has happened, how and why.
M: Well, wonder is the dawn of wisdom. To be
steadily and consistently wondering is sadhana.
Q: I am in a world which I do not understand and
therefore, I am afraid of it. This is everybody's
experience.
M: You have separated yourself from the world,
therefore it pains and frightens you. Discover your
mistake and be free of fear.
Q: You are asking me to give up the world, while I
want to be happy in the world.
M: If you ask for the impossible, who can help you?
The limited is bound to be painful and pleasant in
turns. If you seek real happiness, unassailable and
unchangeable, you must leave the world with its
pains and pleasures behind you.
493
nehz megrtenem. Lehet, hogy tadod nekem a
teljes igazsgot, de n annak csak egy kis rszt
tudom felfogni.
M: Mgis tny a kicsi kivetti az egszet, de nem
tudja tartalmazni az egszet. Brmennyire nagy s
teljes a vilgod, az nmagnak ellentmond,
mland, s teljesen illuzrikus.
K: Lehet, hogy illuzrikus, de csodlatos. Amikor
nzem, s hallgatom, rintem, szagolom, s zlelem,
gondolom s rzem, emlkezem s elkpzelem,
nem tudok mst, csak bmulatba esni az n
csodlatos kreativitsomon. Keresztl nzek a
mikroszkpon, vagy a teleszkpon, s csodkat
ltok, kvetem az atom nyomt, s hallgatom a
csillagok suttogst. Ha n vagyok az egyedli
teremtje mindennek, akkor valjban n vagyok
Isten. De ha Isten vagyok, mirt jelenek meg olyan
kicsinek, s tehetetlennek nmagam szmra?
M: Isten vagy, csak nem tudsz rla.
K: Ha Isten vagyok, akkor az ltalam teremtett
vilgnak igazinak kell lennie.
M: Lnyegt tekintve igazi, de megjelensben nem
az. Szabadulj meg a vgyaktl s flelmektl, s
ltsod azonnal kitisztul, s gy fogod ltni a
dolgokat, ahogy azok vannak. Vagy mondhatod,
hogy a satoguna teremti a vilgot, a tamoguna
homlyoss teszi, s a rajoguna eltorztja.
K: Errl inkbb ne beszljnk, mert ha azt
krdezem, hogy mik a gunk, a vlasz ez: ami
teremt ami elhomlyost ami eltorzt. A tny
fennmarad valami hihetetlen trtnik velem, s n
nem rtem, mi trtnik, hogyan, s mirt.
M: Nos, a kvncsisg a blcsessg szletse. A
szakadatlan s llhatatos kvncsisg a sadhana.
K: Egy olyan vilgban lek, amelyet nem rtek, ezrt
flek tle. Mindenkinek ez a tapasztalata.
M: Elklntetted nmagad a vilgtl, ezrt az
fjdalmat okoz, s megrmt. Fedezd fel a
tvedsedet, s szabadulj meg a flelemtl.
K: Arra krsz, hogy adjam fel a vilgot, mikzben n
boldog akarok lenni a vilgban.
M: Ha a lehetetlent kred, ki tud segteni? A
korltozott a fjdalmas s az lvezetes
vltakozshoz kttt. Ha rk boldogsgot keresel,
amely megtmadhatatlan s megvltozhatatlan,
akkor magad mgtt kell hagynod a vilgot, annak
fjdalmaival s rmeivel egytt.
 Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT, magyarul: n Az vagyok
Q: How is it done?
M: Mere physical renunciation is only a token of
earnestness, but earnestness alone does not
liberate. There must be understanding which comes
with alert perceptivity, eager enquiry and deep
investigation. You must work relentlessly for your
salvation from sin and sorrow.
Q: What is sin?
M: All that binds you.
494
K: Hogy kell ezt tenni?
M: A puszta fizikai lemonds csak jelkpe a
komolysgnak, de a komolysg nmagban nem
szabadt meg. Megrtsre van szksg, amely
figyelmes szlels, lelkes kutats, s mly
elmlyls eredmnye. Hajthatatlanul dolgoznod kell
a bntl s szomorsgtl val megvltsodrt.
K: Mi a bn?
M: Minden, ami tged megkt.