OP atl the garde filma that have appeared in the Jast two years, Mani Kaul's “Uski Roti” is perhaps the only one which could claim to be really experimental. Whatever the fate of the film, it has earn Jn our cinema today Rarely has a flm or a director been talked about eo mich, The ticiged, one feele, enthusiasm. But “Uski Rot” is the kind of lm that ean liberate ‘cinema that has been wallow- Alot cliches” for ages ‘Recognition has not been lack- ing for “Uski Roti" or Kaul. The Filmfare Crities Award, the Venice Film Festival, « place on the jury for Kaul at the Berlin Festival and the National Award {or its phenomenal cameraman XK. K. Mahajan. “Ashad Ka Ek Din,” Mani Kaus second Alm, bagged the Critics Award within & month of ite completion. Yet ‘Uskl Hot!” ig sill to see public ‘eshibition in India, thanks to the highly commercialied distribu tion set-up which considers past ‘taste as the only sure thing in taste Tn the following intervie ‘Mani Kaul talke about his lm his methods and his future pr este Does the fact that the publ ‘has not been able to see “Ushi Rott” bother you? Tt bothers me. The factors that have acted against me are? the economics of making « feature one; the et that there are people in the commercial flm industry — who ‘would like to repress it; and an audience conditioned to receiving extravagenzas, People come to watch the kind ot film they have been used. to don't fit into any of these cate- sores. T believe that ~ certain septs worked out on the St communieation are the begin- ing of a flm maker's failure His incapacity to give up the medium and Inability to follow ma thinking, If 1 started simplifying for the audience, it neans 1 am falsifying the pro- 1 the innot be fought with it should be fought with les THE An Interview vith SUT By J. S, RAOF F Teme citer medium or by life of distinct notes or beats rather dubbed the main actor volce Anite duration and pre-recorded Pieeit Tconsder te'a medium. than a regular musical composi. wth your own.” What is the the track. ‘With the real ahem Should not cinema be more — tion reason? T played tt back an the location, PBrmanic thon the slow deliberate Although your films are differ- "Your question is very inter- the images were functioning um Nezture of your filma? ent in content despite the wait- esting and very dificult for me der the discipline of sounds, What 1am saying is not a rule. ing woman theme, your method 9 answer. Ifeel if Tapeak, my What re your future plans? However, a higher experience in of treatment seems to be more contact will be more direct. Itis Are you planning @ third film? lle, asin cinema, is achieved by or les the same, Are you deve- not the inability of the actor to am working on = script and PPesiming to work against the oping a personal atyle tm cine- speak, Still, I feel it will make the story is by a man called atural tendencies. “The high ma? the text more commentative and Vijaydan Detha of Borunda, a uns of any civilisation have No. Maybe it appears tat way. leat of a dialogue I don't know. village in Rajasthan. Ageinat all [een reached, by opposing the But Iam certainly not engaged Maybe the reason will become odds, he has collected 9000 folk P satural tendencies to discover in developing my own. style, clearer in my third fm, lore tales of Rajasthan from [iecorrect relation between what mainly because I feel that the What is your answer to those farmers and old women. ‘This ‘natural and what is right problem of having a personal who have called your filme ob- particular story is « step ahead conduct. style is more of 2 renaissance scure and cbstroct? of my own themes. InbothUski Rots" and “Ashad problem. It might even be That they are obscure and Speaking formally, it further you seem to favour the use thought decadent to have a style! abstract. However, I have found articulates my theory of directly f rlatic exmera positions and Where I have repeated myself, that women respond very well to narrating a film rather than em hudied definite movements. Is nnd which Ithink is not a ques” my films acting it out. Tt is amazing that this-a sort of self imposed dis- tion of style, ig in “neutralising”. Would you take stars in your objections. to “Ahad. "ane dipline? T make every effort to combine films if you found them sujfici- mostly strong trom theatre peo My answer in fact precedes the sound and image — moving or ently self effacing? Like Bel- ple, whereas in that Alm, 1 have Pteetion. Both films were tho- static — in such a manner as to mondo, Soumitra Chatterii or abstracted the purer’ form’ of oughly planned and organised reach the static. “And this, per Waheeda Rehman? theatre, 4m detail to counteract all that haps Twill repeat in almost I don't know. I want every Would you name some of the foes under the name of spon- every film. I will combine the one with me to bea worker, film makers around you of whom Mtsncty. Because, the discipline two to make them silent. In fact, Most Ukely, in tay third sim I gow have high hopes? nd is rigorous “implementation very much unlike when T paint’ will be taking a girl who can" Kumer Shahan, SN. Dhir, f@ much farther than the spuci- then T combine the two to dis- be termed a star. ‘Vishnu Mathur, Vinay Shukla, ug naturalness or spontaneity turb, What is your concept of time Vikas Desai and K. M. Shankar Wo are ured to, it can achieve a In both your films you have in cinema? appa, profound simplicity. Above: “Whatever happens in her ‘Time in cinema for me must These are all from the Film There is hardly ony back- mind is not memory..." Gariena necessarily correspond to time in Inatitute, Any others? (gvend music in “Ushi Hot” ands Balo in "Usk Rov” life. In its Juxtaponition of seg- "Girish Karnad — even though tad” although in the lt ‘ments however, cinema has-a 1 have only seen him act. May- ter you have wsed sound effects. Tight to shatter our normal per- be some others escape my mind. [Be you think music would de- Above right: Mani Kaul briefs ception of time, Which is why This is not final Ist. from the seriousness of Ratha Sabnis for "Ashad Ke Ei I claim that in “Uski Rot” there What do you think of the fms? Din fare no flashbacks or flashfor- future of Indian cinema? is very close to me and wards. would like to be-wery hope- independently of cinema. @ T was concerned with the 2c- ful and T am sure'that ifthe gor tne therefore even to call tuality of this woman “Balo’ and ernment-doed not abandon its re background score” How- what we may call her mind life. cantly found low budget policy, tthe simple arrangement of ‘Whatever happens in her mind is "there is no dearth of talent i | in “Uski Roti" were put at ‘not memory, nor is it aaticipa- this country to make — this where conventionally tion. Tels also sn. actsality memorable period in the history bis not required. The pur- In’ “Unis Roti” the whole of Indian cinema. ‘to simplify my own ‘stylisation emerged trom basic- Lastly, don't you have a wish ally, the arrangement of space in to make a film that «ill be om ‘hymns T have used in images. Whereas in “Ashad..." immediate hit with the masses? ware part of the sound the space was further controlicd "T have a desire, but no urge- but percussion has boen by time cycles of sounds. Thad Twill be happy if it “happens {smu In both cases T divided the text of “Ahad...” But nothing will foree me to 40 ireced by” the use Into recurrent time circles of de- it, 8