(Conversation with) Néstor Garcia Canclini, on How Tijuana Ceased to Be the Laboratory of Postmodernity Fats Néstor, when I asked you Foran interview forthe book that sponded by saying tha itseemed lke a good idea, but you also pointed out hat you had undertake then,” you said, have continued to fallow its process oi integration and teansformation in newspapers, n academic articles, and through fiends’ stories. | would say that for ‘me, Tijuana no longer, as rote in Hybrid Ctr, a labo ratory of postmodernisy but rather pechaps a laboratory of the socal and poiical dis quence of calelated ungovernat Within this statement, there are several points that 1 ‘would lik to te were you interested in Tijuana in the 1980s? was working on about Tijuana you your lst research in the iy in 2000, “Since ation of Mexico asa conse out with you, The fist one i this: Why N.a.cu Hirst went to Ti 2. 979 to givea tall a ies organized by the National institute of Fine Arts in Mexico in border towns. At that ie, within te federal government (under President Léper Portion people were beginning to argue that it was necessary to strengthen Mexican identity in the Border region be lof Mesicannes in cha area due ots proximity tothe United States, I vas doing fieldwork in Michoacin abou caftworc se ita thought thar there wasa lace and its transformation due vo contact with he cty and with tourism, with factors outside of indigenous communities. 1 vas fain to find a very diferent Mexico inthe border region, onewithe dscourse ery distinc From tat oF the est othe vuntr. Iwas clea thatthe border towns had more of 4 telatonship with the United States than with the Mexican capital. Many people had nese bee south of Guadalaars, ater, in 1984, Iwas invited to doa stdy of the public served by the Centro Cultural de Tijuana (CHU). The Centro had been built in nity and to de caltutal files. We observed that CRCUT exit building and ony later asa cultural program. Weg other anthropologists —t0 doa study not only of cECUT's audience, vith 90 as they asked us to do, but also to ty and Tia tural needs. I also worked with a photographer, Lourdes Grobet, taking iceres in many pats of Tijuana and ater suggesting, through focus groups with peopl in a variety of professions, hat they select the most representative pats ofthe city. We found interesting ev dence that hele perception of Tijuana was not strely teritota: for example, wi which for them were most representative of the city, someone an sswered “Balboa Park," which i i San Diego. There was a certain ‘ranseritorality or atban tansnationalism Through interviews and fieldwork with artists, intellectual, aca eres from the Colegio de la Frontera Norte, journalist, and pho: we asked which parts of th they prefered or tographers, we proved that the city aleady was an extaordinaty cultural and economic force. ls sgnifcanttha rienced no economic growth during the Bos, Tijuana experienced aleap of approximately 0 percent while Mexico expe eats That’ what they sy: when Mexico does badly, Tijuan does well N.G.cs The image of Tijuana that emerged through fldwork was very dif feren from the one which appeated in US. of Mexican ewspapers, rcotypes eld by people 1a was for many a synonym forthe emigrs vohich was based oa oth counties. allover Mexico that came ta form a kind of synthesis or condenss tion of Mexicanness, and atthe same time an incredibly dynamic place ofbusines, turism, and sexual spectacle All ofthis aver to complex interactions a diversity of cultural demands and expec tations in regard to what cultural centers arge a8 CECUT could offer, very diferent demands rom the ones we found while study ing audiences of museums and cultural enters in Mexico City ‘Mterwards inthe 990s, taeed going to Tjuana again, thistime to participate with inSITE, an important binational artistic evento sgnized in Tjuana and Sen Diego. I worked with Manuel Valenzuela ana study ofthe repercussions of “border ar” and “public ars" which imented every two of thre years with new aesthetic, urban, 56 and insti rested In the com: configurations. 1 was very plexity of migratory processes, the existence of several borders on he Mexican side and also ofcourse, onthe US. side as well: the cliché ofthe Mexican US, border was just starting to come undone, and ewas recognized that there were very different perspecties, not ‘only between Tijuana and San Diego, bt also between San Diego and El Paso or between Tijuana and Ciudad jure In part because Tijuana represented the synthesis of contempo- rary processes which were challenging forthe social seiences and the ats—testractaring of relationships between metropolis and Pa ge fron national culrres to globalized fows—tijuana as a multicultural city vas held up a8 an emblem of postmoderniy, Many of us who shared those exper ences of sued them saw in the border, along with the drama of immigration an the violent asymmetries between the United States and Mexico, a space in which the dying certainties of nationalism were being destabilized and anv was developed in th tors a5 well a in the articles ab foreseen creativity might emerge. ales of Latin American A nSITE by tin ciologsts lke Latry Herzog as This perspecti critics and cur America and & them selves if Tijuana “could become the nest Hong Kong Nevertheless, in the fllowing year, | begin to notie that that rm, S notion of tijuana as a laboratory of postmodeniry, besides having ‘the typical problems of postmodern thinking in re ing an empirical consistency, also ran other risks. Speaking of description ofthe Border asa place where the territoralized stereo types of Mexicanness were breaking down, I remember chat John Kraniauskas, the English eultutal ei, made avery pertinent point hesaid chat Iwas paying much m