Shuswap Nation Tribal Council:

Secwepemc Governance Meeting

Final Report
May 9-11th, 2016
 Table of Contents:
Executive Summary: ......................................................................... 3
Opening Comments Day 1: ............................................................... 4
Overview of Meeting’s Structure: .................................................................................. 4
Rules of Engagement: ........................................................................................................ 4
Anticipated outcomes: ....................................................................................................... 4
Story of Porcupine: ........................................................................... 5
Mountain Top, Tree Top, and River’s Edge: ....................................... 7
Systems Thinking: ............................................................................ 9
Key systems questions: ..................................................................................................... 9
Presentations – What’s going on in the territory? ............................ 9
Secwepemc Health Caucus: ............................................................................................. 9
Secwepemc Child and Family Services: .................................................................... 10
Secwepemc – Hydro Relations: .................................................................................... 11
Stk’emlupsemc Te Secwepemc Nation – SSN: ...................................................... 13
Sexqeltkemc te Secwepemc – Lakes Division:....................................................... 13
Esketemc Traditional Governance: ............................................................................. 14
Secwepemc Reconciliation Framework Agreement: ............................................. 14
Summary of Day 1 Group Discussion: ..............................................15
Closing Comments from Day 1: ........................................................16
Day Two Opening Comments: ..........................................................17
Four Broad Themes from Day One: ............................................................................ 17
Culture ................................................................................................................................ 17
Communication ............................................................................................................... 17
Capacity ............................................................................................................................. 17
Collaboration .................................................................................................................... 17
Secwepemc Laws: ...........................................................................18
Our Ancient Deeds to the Land................................................................................. 18
What do these deeds mean as law? ....................................................................... 18
Three areas of law: ....................................................................................................... 18
Law of nationhood, trespass, and reciprocity ..................................................... 18
Principles of Land Tenure ............................................................................................ 18

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 How did someone get access to resources? ........................................................ 19
Secwepemc Governance: .................................................................19
Scenario Planning:...........................................................................20
The Challenge of Uncertainty .................................................................................... 20
Strategic Risk ................................................................................................................... 21
Embracing Uncertainty ................................................................................................. 21
Opening Minds ................................................................................................................. 21
Focus on Solutions ......................................................................................................... 22
Breakout Groups: “Where do we want to go?” ...................................................... 22
Scenario #1 – Living Agreement: ........................................................................... 22
Scenario #2 – Title and Rights ................................................................................. 24
Day 3 Opening Comments: ..............................................................26
Secwepemc Scenario Planning Outcomes: .......................................26
Three Questions Summary: .............................................................26
In what areas can we improve? ................................................................................... 27
What are we doing well? ................................................................................................. 28
What do you our children expect from us? .............................................................. 28
Draft Proposed Model: .....................................................................29
Group Feedback: ................................................................................................................ 29
Governance: ....................................................................................30
Draft Endorsement Document: ..................................................................................... 31
Draft Presented for Consideration: ......................................................................... 31
Feedback on Endorsement Draft .............................................................................. 32
Nation-to-Nation Relationship Opportunity: ............................................................ 33
Summary of Day 3 Morning: ............................................................34
Outcomes from Meeting: .................................................................34
Next Steps: ......................................................................................34
1. Secure Funds ......................................................................................................... 35
2. Community Engagement .................................................................................. 35
3. Communications ................................................................................................... 35
4. Follow-up Governance Meeting ...................................................................... 35
Closing Comments: ..........................................................................36

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Executive Summary:
On May 9th – 11th, 2016, the Shuswap Nation Tribal Council (SNTC)
organized a “Secwepemc Governance Meeting” with host community Splatsín
and facilitator Dan George of Four Directions Management. The purpose of
this meeting was to come together, learn about activities currently taking
place within the Secwepemc nation, conduct scenario planning to establish
next steps, and move forward together with common goals. Each of the
three days were well attended with each day between 50-70 people
participating and representing different key stakeholders such as the elders,
youth, community members, leadership, and technical staff.

Day One of this gathering, we heard the “Story of Porcupine”, reminding us

to be like porcupine during this planning journey and not like coyote.
Following this, presentations were made giving updates on activities
happening within the Secwepemc nation. Day Two consisted of a
presentation on Secwepemc laws and an overview of different governance
work which has taken place. After this, Day Two consisted of breakout
groups that worked on different “scenario planning” and presented the pros
and cons of two different options: (1) Rights and Title; and (2) Living
Agreement. Day Three, materials prepared from information that was
received by participants during the first two days was distributed and
discussed. Next steps were determined and ceremony took place to
acknowledge all the good work and people.

Materials generated from this 3-day Governance Meeting include:

1. Pre-Reading Document – What Path Will you Choose?
2. 3 Questions Summary
3. Scenario Circles
4. Proposed Governance Model
5. Draft Endorsement Document

Next steps are related to the following key ideas:

1. Secure Funds
2. Community Engagement
3. Communications
4. Follow-up Secwepemc Governance Meeting

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Opening Comments Day 1:

Elder Julianna Alexander opened the 3-day governance meeting with a

prayer. A welcome song was also performed. Kukpi7 Wayne Christian
(Chief of Splatsín and SNTC Tribal Chief) then welcomed everyone to the
community of Splatsín and explained that the reason for this gathering was
to plan for the Secwepemc nation more effectively and strategize on how we
can work together. Facilitator Dan George produced a pre-read package
that hopefully gave people the opportunity to review leading into this three-
day dialogue.

Overview of Meeting’s Structure:

Day 1 – Where are we currently at?
Day 2 – Where do we want to go?
Day 3 – How are we going to get there (chartering our path forward)?

Rules of Engagement:
 Challenge ideas, not people
 Participate, staying focused and in process
 Be positive and open; solution-oriented
 One conversation at a time
 Listen generously – seek common ground
 Encourage new ideas; build on the ideas of others
 Observe time limits; stick to the agenda
 Ensure that everyone gets heard
 See situation from a perspective/mindset other than your own

Anticipated outcomes:
1. Ground us in our stories
2. Review our progress to date in key responsibility area
3. Gather information that will be used to inform our next steps
4. Engage in value-added, solution-oriented dialogue that will chart our
critical path forward

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Story of Porcupine:
Story1 was told by Splatsín Elder Julianna Alexander (Co-Chair
Secwepemc Elders Council)

“A large number of people lived together at one place. Their chief was
Swan.2 At another place - distant a long day's journey, and beyond a high
range of mountains - lived another band of people, who were sometimes
called the Deer People.3 They consisted of the Deer, Caribou, Moose, Goat,
Sheep, and others, and their chief was the Elk.4 The two groups of people
had been enemies for a long time. Each tried to interfere with the other, and
to make their means of procuring a living as difficult as possible. Each
people had a different kind of government, and lived and worked differently.
What one did well, the other did badly. The birds acted in some ways like
mammals, and the mammals like birds. The Swan wished to remedy the
defects of both parties, and to enable them to live without mutual
interference. He believed that their troubles all arose from ignorance.

One day in the winter-time, when the snow lay very deep on the mountains,
he assembled his people, and, after explaining to them his plans, asked if
any one of them would carry his message of invitation to Elk. Whoever
would undertake the journey was to receive a large present of dentalia.

Coyote volunteered to go, and prepared for the journey by putting on his
finest clothes, embroidered moccasins, and all his dentalia and necklaces. At
dusk he left the house, but, not caring to face the deep snow, he ran around
the underground house all night, admiring himself, and was still running in
the morning, when the people awoke. The Swan asked him why he had not
gone; and Coyote answered, “I was just playing and running around for
practice. I will start to-night." When evening came, the people saw him
leave, and watched him until he was out of sight. Coyote soon found the
snow too deep, returned after dark, and lay down underneath the top of the
ladder, where he fell asleep. When the people awoke in the morning, they
found him fast asleep, and Swan asked him why he had not gone. Coyote

1
This case is taken from a story entitled “Story of Porcupine” in Teit, James. The Jesup North Pacific Expedition,
Memoir of the American Museum of Natural History, The Shuswap, Publications of The North Pacific Expedition,
Volume II, Part VII (Leiden: EJ Brill, 1909; New York: GE Stechert, 1909), pp 671-672
2
The Swan was noted for his goodness and wisdom.
3
The smaller animals and birds all lived together. The other community consisted of all the large animals,
but, according to some, was composed of game-animals only (therefore called Deer People), - all the
varieties of big game hunted by the Indians and used as food, including the Buffalo, Antelope, etc. It
seems, according to some, that the Bears were not included.
4
The Elk was a great chief, but, according to some, was inclined to be thick-headed or stupid at times.

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answered, "Oh! I was playing, became tired, and lay down to sleep. I will
start to-night."

Then Swan asked the people which one of them was best able to undertake
the journey, and they all agreed that Porcupine was the fittest person, for he
was accustomed to walking in the high mountains where there was much
deep snow. Porcupine was thus selected, and after sewing his moccasins all
night, and dressing himself warmly, he left at daybreak. When Coyote saw
him leave, he laughed, and said, "When even I could not go, how can such a
poor, slow, short-legged creature be able to travel through the deep snow?"
That night Porcupine reached Elk's house in an exhausted condition, and all
covered with ice and snow. After warming himself, he delivered his message
to Elk, and asked for sinew and awl with which to sew his moccasins. After
he had done so, he left for home, bearing Elk's reply, who promised to visit
Swan on the following morning together with all his people.

When Elk and his people arrived, Swan feasted them; and, when the feast
was over, he and all his people knelt down before Elk, and Swan related to
him all he knew of the affairs of both people, and told him in what way he
thought they did wrong. Thus he gave Elk all his knowledge and all his
advice.

Then Elk and his people all knelt down before Swan, and Elk gave him all his
ideas and knowledge. Thus each people gained full knowledge of the other,
and together became able to devise means for doing what was right. After
this they lived much easier and happier than before, and the methods of one
party did not come into conflict with those of the other.

The laws made at the council are those which govern animals and birds at
the present day. Porcupine got his rich present of dentalia, and was much
envied by Coyote.5”

In this planning effort, we encourage people to be like porcupine; not

coyotes…

5
A similar tradition is told by the Lillooet (see also for the last remark, Teit, Traditions of the Thompson
River Indians, p. 83).

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Mountain Top, Tree Top, and River’s Edge:
We used the Systems Thinking Multiple Perspectives diagram to explore
the different perspectives that leadership, management, administrative staff,
and citizens can have within a First Nation system. This exercise allowed us
to:
 Clarify the different moving parts of the system as well as the role and
responsibility of each; and
 Demonstrate that within a healthy system there exists high role
clarification with an overarching understanding that there is high
interdependence within the system. In short, if one part of your
organizational system is unhealthy it fouls other parts of the system.

The three roles identified above are “making space”, “defining space”, and
“getting results.” Each role is associated with a distinct perspective that
those fulfilling each role must adopt to work efficiently. This is not to say
that one individual cannot have multiple perspectives. In fact, it is by
recognizing that the workings of the Nation can be viewed through multiple
lenses that leaders can truly be effective in representing the values and
needs of the citizens they represent.

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 The View from the
Mountaintops
This level of the system is
occupied by leadership (Chief and
Council, Board of Directors). From
this perspective, leadership is
able to see the big picture – an
understanding that is necessary
for “making space” that will allow
their citizens to be successful. An
example of this would be securing
Aboriginal rights and title to their
traditional lands.

The View from the Treetops

This level of the system is occupied
by senior management. From this
perspective, they are able to see
what needs to be done to make the
direction set by leadership a reality
– an understanding that is
necessary for “defining the space”
that will allow citizens to be
successful. An example of this would
be creating the procedures to
regulate hunting and fishing in their
Nations traditional lands.

The View from the River’s

Edge
This is arguably the most
important level of the system
and is occupied by
administrative staff and
citizens. From this perspective,
they are able to see how well
leadership’s vision aligns with
the day-to-day life in the
Nation and how effective the
procedures created by
management are at realizing
this vision – an understanding

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that is necessary for “getting results” that will allow the Nation to sustain
and prosper. An example of this would be communicating to leadership
why the Nations policy on hunting and fishing on traditional lands is too
restrictive or not restrictive enough.

Systems Thinking:
Our Elders and ancestors understood that everything was connected. This
way of thinking isn’t new to us. What is “systems thinking”?
 Examining how… we create our own problems
 Seeing the… big picture
 Recognizing that… structure influences performance

Key systems questions:

1. What is the leverage point, the key point(s) to get into the system and
make sustainable change? Where will we get the most milage for our
efforts?
2. How can we enhance understandings and reduce real and/or perceived
conflicts?
3. How do we become part of the solution to our problems, not contribute
to the problems?
4. What may be the “intended or unintended consequences” of our
actions or inaction?
5. What is the “organizational, community & nation culture” that we
operate within?

Presentations – What’s going on in the

territory?
A one page handout was distributed for people to fill out while listening to
presentations asking: What did you hear? What key items should we bring
forward in our planning efforts? What didn’t you hear?

Secwepemc Health Caucus:

Presentation by Londea Riffel
 Vision Statement – “All Our Relations Healing and Healthy Together”
 Mission Statement – “The SHC is a body of 16 Chiefs and 12 Health
Directors representing the communities of Secwepemcúlecw. By

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 advocating, collaborating, and coordinating the SHC guided by
Secwepemc culture: strive to educate, facilitate, and empower
Secwepemc individuals, families and communities in achieving their
desired wellness.”
 Core values
o Respect + Equality + Accountability + Transparency
 As SHC, we have unity
 Current fiscal year investment: $863,122
 Team:
o Londea Riffel, Hub Coordinator
o Kerri Jo Fortier, Hub Assistant
o David Archie, Traditional Wellness Coordinator
o Trevor Day, Youth Wellness & Promotions Coordinator
Questions:
 Funding – is it centralized or decentralized to communities?
 $195,000 – funds community engagement and our SHC
team
 Health Actions & Joint Project Board – filtered through the
Qwemtsin Health Society
 Health Actions - $ for traditional wellness program
(Coordinator & committee)
 Joint Project Board – divided amongst 3 sub nations:
Lakes, Kamloops & Simpcw area, and North
 How does one find out the detailed budget so we can see where this
money goes and how each community benefits from it?
o Yes, there’s transparency in everything we do.
o Londea will follow-up on this
 Need to look at our traditional medicines and have to have the support
to do this to get the people on the land
o We need our own medicines
o David Archie is in charge of bringing this back for our team

Secwepemc Child and Family Services:

Presentation by Nadine Adam
 We’re always looking for foster homes on and off reserve
 Biggest challenge – agency’s inadequate funding
 Have 111 less children in care now than last year
 Questions:
o Difference between Secwepemc child welfare and the ministry?
 SCFS strives to maintain connections between children and
families; MCFD doesn’t always prioritize this.
o The delegated model is not working very well. In the Province of
BC it’s been reported that the child poverty levels in the province

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 is pretty tragic and it’s probably worse here in our communities.
There needs to be better action on our children’s health and
safety. Would suggest that we take the initiative to have
community hearings on our children.
o In transition to move away from delegated model and into our
own Indigenous processes (this was always our intent)
 On May 30 & 31st, theres a provincial wide forum
 We have reduced the numbers of children in care
o Im not sure if the nation has been able to give any thought to
the recent Human Rights Tribunal finding which ruled that our
children have been underfunded as compared to their off-reserve
counterparts. We should be speaking together on behalf of our
children. If there were issues around how we can move forward
as a nation – this is an issue we can move forward on.
o Would like to see the agency out in the communities more
 Want to see a Grandma/Grandpa circle in the
communities.
 Would like to see the agency work more closely with the
Aboriginal Justice Council and in partnership with
community members.
o When it comes to our Stsmémelt, it is something that we should
all gather around on. We had a Stsmémelt Project where we
were all working together. Recommend that we revive this
protocol and bring it to the forefront.
o Splatsin has a constitutional challenge against the Province
about our own jurisdiction over children and families.
 Follow-Up:
o For Chiefs -
 Would like to propose we sit down within the next 6
months to discuss this
 Should also set up a meeting with Province to discuss this
matter.

Secwepemc – Hydro Relations:

Presentation by Ray Cormier
 In the past, consultation with BC Hydro had a very narrow focus as to
what they were willing to talk about.
 We wanted something more than a “one-off agreement”. We need a
relationship and strategy to deal with BC Hydro on the territory.
 Benchmark agreement – BC Hydro and St’at’imc deal
o Dealt with past grievances
o Started with a protocol
 This is a the stage we’re at now

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 Secwepemc Protocol –
o Sets the tone for future discussions
o Paves the way for a better relationship
o Open for all Secwepemc to join in
 At the stage where we’re having communities sign protocol agreement
o Communities can still join after signing date of April 30th but
they just want be able to provide input into the document like
those who did before
 Will be having a protocol signing ceremony
 Now what?
o Secwepemc must agree how to work together: as a nation, as
divisions, and as individual communities
o Confirm work plan for the next 12 months
 Draft has been put together
o Confirm funding from BC Hydro for communities
 Why framework agreement?
o Establish common vision to guide a reconciliation framework
o Explore opportunities to reconcile historical grievances
o Improve engagement and review of existing and proposed bc
hydro projects
o Undertake strategic initiatives to move forward
 E.g, salmon restoration in the columbia
 Questions?
o In regards to protocol, is that going to be available to member
communities?
 Yes, it has already been sent out and shared
o In regards to funding, is there funding conditions – is it a loan
that has to be paid back?
 No strings attached – but we need to bill them for
expenses and they will reimburse, they don’t just write a
cheque
o Point of reconciliation – restitution before we look at
reconciliation.
o Part of the discussion we need to have here is how should we
(leadership) inform communities and get direction from them in
decision-making as title is collective.
o This is not a settlement agreement, its just a framework to work
towards something that will be driven from the communities
o It’s a nation initiative – its not restricted to a few communities
but they all need to come on board for it to be a nation initiative
 Funding is provided directly to the communities to engage
in this work

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Stk’emlupsemc Te Secwepemc Nation – SSN:
Presentation by Sunny LeBourdais
 Mandate: We do not have a mandate; we have a responsibility – we
are yecminm7
 SSN Ajax Mine Panel Review Hearing – utilizing traditional family
structure for decision making over issues that will affect the whole
community.
 Current activities:
o We get our mandate and approvals from Joint Council
 Successes
o Walking on two legs principle:
 Western knowledge
 Secwepemc knowledge
 Challenges
 Key messages
o Trying to stand families up and recognize the role they play in
our communities and in our nation
 Questions?

Sexqeltkemc te Secwepemc – Lakes Division:

Presentation by Shelley Witzky
 Mandate: trying to reinstate the name Sexqeltkemc te Secwepemc
(lakes people of the Secwepemc nation)
 Ancient political governance unit
 Reformed after 150 years
 Eagle Staff Ceremony a couple weeks ago in Invermere (April 21,
2016).
o Each Chief was presented an eagle staff by an Elder
o About 40 people in attendance
 Current activities:
o TCH1 expansion – Hoffman’s Bluff, Chase Creek Road, Chase
West, Salmon Arm West, Malakwa Bridge
o Elders Council
 Provide funding for Elders to meet to discuss important
issues we need to be aware of
o Spiritual Monitors
 Were able to get the govt to recognize the importance of
our spirituality
 E.g., We have people on site to protect the rat cave
and pillar
 Will be hiring people soon to be spiritual monitors
o Elders Bus Tour of TCH1 Project Sites (June 20-22, 16)
o Sts’xum Monument, June 17, 2016

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  Successes:
o Agreement to work together with the Ministry of Transportation
o Agreement to work together and a process for consultation –
 Would like to build a relationship with the government so
we have proper input into the design of the highway
o Asserting Secwepemc Protocols
 Spiritual monitors
o BC Hydro
 Challenges –
o Vast scope of projects and sectors
 Questions?

Esketemc Traditional Governance:

Presentation by Chief Charlene Belleau
 Fortunate to have so many elders who are still with us and continue to
teach
o Some of this information comes from Elders over the past few
years
 Each of our families had animal spirits that we got through fasting
o They weren’t called clans – clans weren’t part of our system
 Women were responsible for identifying Chiefs
 Reestablishing family groups
o There were 21 family groups who will take on their responsibility
for the land
o Our way of implementing the Tsilhqot’in Decision
o Will have decision making authority over areas where they are
responsible
 Looking at a custom election code to have these family representatives
on council
 Will be launching declaration of title over Esket land in the near future
 Haven’t relied much on non-aboriginal writings on us as its their
perspective; we instead rely on our elders
 Questions:
o Medicine man played a big role in our decision making, but didn’t
see it in your presentation
 Spiritual Chief was included and this was their
responsibility

Secwepemc Reconciliation Framework Agreement:

Presentation by Mark Eikland
 5 communities
o Skeetchestn
o Tk’emlúps

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 o Adams Lake
o Splatsin
o Shuswap
 Entered into RFA on April 10, 2013
o Was to expire April 10, 2016
o There has been a one year extension
 Within the RFA, there is a list of Strategic Initiatives that the parties
are to have meaningful dialogue on:
o Shared Decision making
o Revenue sharing
 Challenge was bringing the agenda with the govt back – there are
many more bureaucrats than there are of us so that has bogged things
down.
 We have had very little gains
 This agreement does not provide for a political forum
 Questions:
o Who’s John Rustad?
 Minister of Aboriginal Relations and Reconciliation
o 5 bands do not constitute an authority. A few bands are not a
nation. We need to assert ourselves.
o How do we improve where we are today?
 We don’t even own title to our reserve lands
 According to Indian Act, we’re wards of the government
 Are we going to continue down the Indian Act path or are
we going to talk about our self-determination?
 We don’t want to go down the path of the current
comprehensive claims policy or maintain the status quo of
the Indian Act
 So where does this leave us?
o Rebuild our family structures
o UN Human Rights submission
 We’ve got a lot of paths going on right now but we need a
clear path forward together.
 We’re all here to work together
 There’s so many different groups doing different things
 We need to clear this muddy water.
o Want to go back to our traditional ways and governance
systems; not Canadian processes.

Summary of Day 1 Group Discussion:

Youth representative statement: I can’t pull the youth together, if you can’t
pull yourself together. Leadership needs to do better by us. We need to

15
change the way we are talking about each other because we’re all in this
together. We need to be respectful. As a youth representative, there is
nothing I will support except for unity. Let’s respect each other. Let’s
recognize that a lot of work has gone into the different processes being
presented and we all can learn from this. What does it look like and how do
we move forward?

Doctrine of Discovery – Terra Nullius: Colonial laws have generated

legislative genocide on us. They took us off the land. So how do we get back
to this place where our people our governing ourselves on the territory?
We’re here because of what the government has done but the government
can’t solve the problem. We have to get together as a nation of people and
do this work ourselves. We need to gather our families and rebuild these
structures again. We have to start healing ourselves, families, communities
and our nation. We have to move beyond talking about governing ourselves
and heal ourselves first. How do we get the resources to do this? We should
be meeting for 5 days so we can really get into this work. Hopefully we can
do that when we meet in the fall in Invermere. We need to invest in our
children as that’s an investment in our future.

Closing Comments from Day 1:

The Art of Leadership – if we want to be healthy, we have to set proper
boundaries for ourselves. We need to be role modelling healthy behaviour.
Everyone was encouraged to find what’s been done right and what we can
build off of; we can’t get stuck on mistakes.

16
Day Two Opening Comments:

Four Broad Themes from Day One:

Culture
o Laws
o Ancestors
o Language
o Identity

Communication
o We can always do better
o Member engagement
 Sense of ownership and buy-in into the strategic direction
we’re moving towards
o Feedback loops
 Between Chief & Council and Staff
 And Chief & Council and Staff and Membership

Capacity
o Governance capacity
 Making sure we’re doing our job at the macro level
o Financial capacity
 Community
 Individual & families
o Human resources and requirements
 Making sure people are trained for opportunities

Collaboration
o Co-labour
o Working together
o We all have a role to play in all levels of the system
o Together we’re stronger – nationhood

Foundation is our law and our ability to be able to walk on “two legs”:
traditional and western knowledge sources to move us forward. Idea of
restitution and reconciliation is critical. Oftentimes though we don’t spend
enough time reconciling amongst ourselves; we always point it outwards to
the Crown but we need to come together first.

There has to be a territorial view but be driven by the communities and our
members. We need balance and feedback loops for communication built into
the system in a conscious and meaningful way.

17
Secwepemc Laws:
Prepared by Kukpi7 Ron Ignace and Presented by Kukpi7 Christian

Our Ancient Deeds to the Land

 As law that derives from ancient stories as the deeds of ancestors – in
the double sense of a) meaning that they deeded Secwepemcúlecw to
us as the rightful owners but with the responsibility of caretaker ship,
and b) with deeds being what they did on the land that laid out the
principles of good conduct
 Our stsq’ey’ is written on the land; its connected to the land (Tmixw),
its creatures, and expresses our Secwepemc rights
 These laws come from within, and were constituted through the
process of Secwepemc history, consciously told in stsptekwll,
reproduced, anchored to the land by place names, land marks – the
“deeds” of our ancestors
 Tlli7sa – transformer travelled Secwepemcúlecw transforming
cannibals that would no longer harm Secwepemc people

What do these deeds mean as law?

 Laws of boundary and territories of nations
 Law of land tenure, access and ownership
 Laws of us being hosts, foreigners being guests
 Laws of kinship and access to resource

Three areas of law:

1. Secwepemc law of Supreme authority within Secwepemcúlecw
2. Laws that define rights of access to Secwepemcúlecw, and to
resources, and;
3. The motivation to make treaties with other Nations

Law of nationhood, trespass, and reciprocity

 Coyote sitting on the rock
o Supreme authority
o Foundational story

“We travelled a lot. There was no such thing as private property. The whole
territory of the Secwepemc Nation was shared by all the Secwepemc dialect
people. Nothing was private property…” – Elder Mary Thomas

Principles of Land Tenure

 Secwepemcúlecw jointly owned by all Secwepemc

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  Stewardship or caretakership of certain tracts of Secwepemcúlecw by
the local indigenous band or community: yucwmin’men

How did someone get access to resources?

 Kinship and descent
 Marriage with members of other Nations (as secondary access)

The foundation of our Nation was and is our kinship ties

Reciprocity – extends from reciprocity between humans and animals and

helping one another among humans by sharing

Secwepemc Governance:
Presentation by Bonnie Leonard (SNTC Tribal Director)

It’s obvious that we had our systems of governance in the past and those
things were impacted by colonial contact. What’s been done to date? The
Indian Act and the impact of being put on reserves; they created a different
governance system for us even though ours worked perfectly fine. Chief and
Council, elections, - bodies such as the NStQ and SNTC and the
organizations you heard from yesterday.

This has created silos within our nation. They aren’t connected in anyway.
Some of them were temporary; all of them are dependent on government
funding. Many of them are examining governance models and being
directed to do so. There’s overlap and a complete disconnect. They aren’t
work together and this is destructive to our traditional ways.

Back in the 1980s, leadership travelled around the communities and got
input as to what Secwepemc governance could look like; created the Sounds
of Thunder and within this document, they outlined a Secwepemc Provisional
Government. This fell of the table though for some reason but it’s been at
the back of peoples mind.

What do we need to do to move forward? Work together obviously. We

should combine the tables that presented yesterday and work together to
reach our goals. Let’s not duplicate work, let’s be efficient with our time and
resources. We need to engage community members – we need to host
community members in every community to get input: What does
governance as a nation mean to you? The people need to be included in the
planning. We can rely on our Secwepemc laws and the knowledge shared by
our Elders. Who, then, does this work? We all need to do it and our families
have to engage.

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How do we fund it? Suggest we enter into an agreement with the same
government that destroyed as they have the responsible for helping us
rebuild ourselves as it’s their fault. The money we would receive would be
what we are entitled too as its funds generated off of our lands. They broke
it; they need to help us fix it. The Tsilhqot’in fought for their title victory for
over 25 years in the court system. Two years ago, they obtained a
declaration of title for a tract of land within the traditional territory. But they
know have to develop their governance system. They got something they
weren’t prepared for. I don’t want us to be like that.

When we eventually get our declaration of title, we need to be ready.

Yesterday, Canada committed to implement the UNDRIP. This includes the
right to self-determination. The ball is in our court; as a people and as a
nation. We need to stand up our laws and tell the government how self-
determination looks for our people.

We need to start acting like an independent self-determining sovereign

nation. Let’s work together and develop a Government model. As SNTC and
a Tk’emlúps member, I’m committed to do this work. Let’s create that vision
to move forward and be ready to manage our lands. We will schedule more
meetings in the communities. We have a chance today to tell leadership
what you see as the path forward for our people and develop our path
forward.

Scenario Planning:
What are the forces driving future change? What are the major
characteristics of this scenario? What developments need to occur for this
future to emerge? What are some critical uncertainties facing this scenario?
What are the drawbacks of this scenario? What are the benefits of this
scenario?

The Challenge of Uncertainty

Within your First Nation system, how do you make strategic decisions? How
do you decide where to place your bets? Toyota has bet on hybrids; GM has
bet on fuel cells. The Provincial Government has bet on LNG. BC Hydro has
bet on Site C. Industry has bet on increased resource extraction and
development to guarantee return to shareholders.

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Strategic Risk

All of these choices involve significant strategic risk - the risk associated with
major investment decisions that involve long time frames and uncertain
outcomes. These are big, tough decisions because they are often company
transforming. Think of a $10 billion investment in LNG. It can take years to
learn whether the decision is brilliant or a bust. Most difficult, the key factors
influencing success are uncertain and are beyond the control of the
company. Such factors cannot be analyzed away. No amount of research can
resolve risks rising from political, technological, environmental or other
factors. Expectations about the future that determine the consequences of
strategic decisions cannot be reduced to a single forecast with any credibility
or confidence.

Embracing Uncertainty

One approach to this dilemma is scenario planning. Scenarios are alternative

descriptions of the future. They embrace uncertainty. Instead of trying to
reduce uncertainty to a single most likely forecast, scenarios try to identify
the major forces driving change and the key uncertainties that lead to a
wide range of possible future outcomes. Scenarios map out the boundaries
of our uncertainties and provide a context of expectations for generating and
evaluating strategic options. This process surfaces strategic risks and opens
thinking on new ways of managing or mitigating risk in implementing major
strategies. While hard decisions are not removed and risks are not
eliminated, decisions are based on a broader understanding of the risks and
rewards. That is the task of leadership. The worst decision is one made in
ignorance where the risks were knowable, but were not identified or fully
considered.

Opening Minds

Scenario planning is a process undertaken by a Nation to broaden its

thinking about the future as a basis for developing and implementing robust
strategies. There is benefit both in the process and in the product. The
process is an intensive, highly participatory and interactive learning
experience that broadens thinking, deepens shared understanding, creates
insight and builds alignment for action. Pierre Wack, the godfather of
scenarios at Shell, emphasized that the purpose of scenarios was to open
the “mental maps” of managers. Kees van der Heijeden, a disciple of
scenarios at Shell, emphasized that scenarios are a vehicle for the “strategic
conversations” that are vital in making better strategic decisions. In many

21
scenario planning projects, creating a more flexible and more open learning
environment is a major objective of the project.

Focus on Solutions

The product of scenario planning is a set of stories describing a range of

futures focused on the strategic issues facing a Nation. The scenarios
themselves are not the desired end, rather they are a management tool to
improve the quality of strategic decisions. Strategic decisions might involve
a specific governance decision, such as whether to hold the course or
embark on a renewed path forward. Using industry as an example, for a
conventional exploration and production company, a strategic decision might
involve a long-term strategic direction such as whether to focus exploration
efforts on oil or on natural gas. For a major independent or integrated
energy company, the strategic decision might be whether to integrate or
focus on a specific part of the value chain. For a utility, the strategic decision
might be whether to build a coal-fired or a gas-fired power plant. These
types of decisions involve tough choices, long time frames and high degrees
of uncertainty. It is in these cases that scenario planning is most valuable.

Breakout Groups: “Where do we want to go?”

When you take care of the land, the land will take care of you. Planning is so
important for us to be successful. Whats the integration on the land and how
can we be working together for better outcomes? Do we have the proper
structure in place to move us forward to where we want to go?

Scenario #1 – Living Agreement:

In Living Agreement we pursue arrangements that are in alignment with

our legal standing and consistent with the expressed needs and aspirations
voiced by our citizenry. We do not “give up” or “give in”. We negotiate
agreements that can be modified if they do not work for us. We establish
long-term, mutually beneficial relationships that are enduring.

Group 1 Report Out:

 What is a living agreement?
o We didn’t want to be under Indian Act under any structure
o As title holders, do not want to negotiate with the government
o Gov’t is guests on our land
o Must come from the people – consent
o Self-determination rights based approach

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  Forces driving change
o Children
o Historical change
o Climate change
o Water
o Environment
o Connection to each other
o Healing
o Food – traditional healthy food
o Teaching language and culture
 Without land, language and culture we are not Secwepemc
 Fee simple versus Secwepemc title
 Framework of 1910 Sir Wilfrid Laurier should be implemented
 Secwepemc citizenship should be stood up
 How do we collect our resources from territories?
 Decision making processes
 Strong families, strong communities, strong nation = standing up the
women
 Build a nation village with a nation house
 Utilize our own resources on the territory to become self-reliant
 We need to be at one table – not a whole bunch of different
components
 Communications is a two way street
 When your in the room, stay in the room; don’t just say what you
have to say and then leave.
 Who will do the work and how will it move forward? What will we do
when some don’t agree?
 Think outside the reservation
 Youth needs to be more a part of everything we do

Group 2 Report Out:

 Can’t have a nation-to-nation relationship until we are a nation
 We need to focus internally before we can engage externally
 Unity means the people coming together; not just 17 Bands’ Chief and
Council
 Goal: Act like a country – One Secwepemc Governance body with a
constitution and our laws articulated and lived by and people are fluent
speakers.
o 17 Bands acting as one, combined resources, one election date,
Secwepemc identity cards
 How do we get there? Establish a provisional government whose role
would be to coordinate these efforts and develop a code of ethics and
work plan for the nation to use in moving forward.
 Draft model presented for consideration.

23
 o It was agreed the Kelly-Ann Connor (SNTC) will make a copy of
the Group 2 suggested governance model to be distributed to
everyone in the morning for their consideration

Group 3 Report Out:

 How can we talk about these things when we aren’t a nation, and
there is so much division?
 We need to be one. Emphasis on language and laws
 All of the healing that needs to be done – got off track here; concerns
about making these types of agreements without being one whole
nation

Scenario #2 – Title and Rights

In Title and Rights we organize ourselves for litigation. We gather

evidence. We raise money. We engage the people. We put forth a legal
argument that is consistent with who we are as a people. We do not “give
up” or “give in”; rather, we take the fight to the Crown understanding that
this fight will take time, focus, discipline and resources.

Group 1 Report Out:

 Common law processes; not Secwepemc
 Secwepemc – we own our territory already; do we have to go to court?
 Implementation is the issue; don’t want to litigate
 International law stronger than Canadian law
 Costs of going to a court case
 George William volunteer to host an Interior Inter Tribal Gathering
 We don’t need to go to court if we recognize each other’s land base
 One nation; one case
 Combining all of our knowledge together to strengthen our case
 Reverse onus of proof- why do we need to prove our title?
 1910 Sir Wilfrid Laurier Memorial – guiding structure
 Will be assimilated if we do not assert our title and rights
 What precedent would it set if we lost a title case?
 There’s only one Secwepemc sovereignty; we’re not split
 Interior nations recognize each other rather than going to court

Group 2 Report Out:

 Don’t want to be in the position where we’ve litigated our title and
rights, created a space, and then we don’t have a plan or system in
place to fill it

24
  Instead, we want to build our governance system. Work together.
Define our Secwepemc external boundary. Create our processes
ensuring no one/nothing is left behind.
 Then, we put Canada on notice and assert our title
 We want to occupy this space of jurisdiction, governance, and decision
making, push Canada out of it, and then fill it with our system.
 We will accomplish this by utilizing the resources already in place:
o SCES
o SNTC
o SSN
o Lakes
o Esketemc
o NStQ
o Language Council
o Elders Council
o Youth Council

Group 3 Report Out:

 How can we go about fixing the division in the nation
 Create more ceremonies
o Disconnect with people in the communities who might not know
when and how they are being represented as they aren’t being
informed.
o Ceremonies would create unity if we got together to do this
 More accountability amongst band members and having
representatives from families present to represent them (e.g., SSN
engagement model)
 Unity Declaration
o Not everyones aware of this, whose part of it, what it contains
o Should have a ceremony around this and have the families part
of this; not just the leaders and technical staff
 We’ve had some success in the courts but its not without its
drawbacks
 We want to assert our rights and title; make the government come to
us and challenge us if they want too (reverse onus of proof)

25
Day 3 Opening Comments:
 Strategy: Where are we going and how will we get there?
 Structure: What structure will advance the strategy?
 Systems: What systems do we need to support the structure?
 Skills: What skills do we need to maintain, enhance or acquire?

Secwepemc Scenario Planning Outcomes:

 Living Agreement Scenario
 Title & Rights Scenario
 Common Elements

26
Three Questions Summary:
Useful information that begins to talk about the information that’s important
for us:

In what areas can we improve?

 Communication between 17 Bands, Chief and Council,

Membership, Staff, Elders, Youth. There was 7 presentations on
day 1 and did not know that these were in process. Use social
media (Facebook, newsletters, etc.). Need to know about
“markers” on the land
 Will there be compensation or restoration efforts to ensure that
there is no net loss to all our resources, for our children and yet
to be born?
 Interesting and engaging, still in Indian Act system as no one
resigns of positions of Indian Action non-status.
 Commitment to gather 2 times per year, 5 day sessions on the
land; Spring and Fall
 Creating new leaders
 Reverting our colonial idealism back to our ancestral way of
thinking
 Developing our swindling resources – Elders knowledge.
 Cooperative, collaborative effort
 Think about balance. Everything is balanced
 Quicker intervention for substance addicted youth. Deal with
them within a week not 10. Drug and Alcohol counsellors aren’t
much help.
 Changing legislation around water protection. This needs to be
straightforward and supports community’s interests.
 There is no mistaking the government’s intention of protecting
industry when making laws/water act.
 We need to have our own food of the land, traditional at our big
meeting at home. Wellness is what we need. Our medicines, our
healing places. Smiles
 Big Picture: I work to show my child my people.
 There is a live to live, fare walking, talking, singing to gather,
respect our land and water.
 My earth all loving things we have our laws, our ways.
 Safe teaching
 Reciprocal respect
 Involve all; people, family, bands
 Trust our own, to build capacity
 Show by action
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  Brand us, by Secwépemc flag, card (status)

What are we doing well?

 Improving communication
 Identifying problematic symptoms
 Metamorphoses into a new era
 We all know that as First Nations want to *Improve *The
*System
 Don’t stop, too busy to talk, trust each other, no sharing our
stories, not sharing where we came from, how we use to live,
not helping each other, to move ahead/forward, eating the
wrong food, not look after each other
 We are in process of learning how to come together and learn
from each other. Engaging your community members, grass
roots people must have a say, go door to door if needed and
important.

What do you our children expect from us?

 First of all forgiveness and get on with life

 Most youth and children don’t know of historical (war’s) so there
is no possessiveness or feuds to hold against a Nation or family.
 “See” all the children not just ones parents speak loud and proud
 No swearing – Role Model what Elders
 They expect:
 Certainty
 Good/ Honesty/ Stability
 Transparency
 Safety
 Appreciation of them
 To teach with love, don’t judge
 Settle old disputes, so youth know can work together in the
future
 To incorporate, implement, language in schools & main streams
 To teach our ways, not borrowed culture
 Don’t teach us by bullying or threatening tactics
 Our children expect us to act as their parent not as their friend.
They want and need to be shown and taught respect and be
disciplined in a good way. You can still be their friend but they
need parents who teach by action and not too much verbal
direction.

28
  Make sure Jordan’s Principle aims to ensure that all First Nations
can access government services on the same level.
 We need to make sure Jordan River Arden from Norway’s House
Cree Nation is never forgotten. He died at age 5, never spent a
day at home
 To implement all the Truth and Reconciliation Commission
Report on Child Welfare
 Bring our Children home
 We need to provide a
 Communication is the key. Keep everyone informed at
grassroots level. (Social media)
 We need to leave a legacy for our children so that it can be
handed down to the once not born.
 Love
 Safety
 Language
 Culture
 Spirituality
 Hope
 Land, Air, Water care
 Leadership
 Mentorship
 Access to Knowledge

Draft Proposed Model:

Presented by Kelly-Ann Connor (SNTC) on behalf of “Group 2”

This model was developed by Group 2 during the previous day’s breakout
sessions. Group 2 would formally like to have it presented to the whole and
make the recommendation to move forward with this a draft model for
planning considerations.

Group Feedback:

 Concern about use of the word “divisions”; instead, it was suggested

that the term “Area of Responsibilities” be used in its place.
Responsible for area in trust for the Secwepemc nation – “trust areas”
as they are held in trust.
 We’re just reaffirming what’s been done; not reinventing a system.
 Ceremony should be at the bottom and top
 This should be translated into Secwépemctsín

29
 Secwepemc People
(Unity)

Secwpememc Provisional
Trust Areas/ Areas Government
of Responsibilites Coordination & Communication: Family Heads
(Caretakership - 1. Code of Ethics (Representatives)
Yucwmin'men) 2. Unity Work Plan
3. Restructured Communications

17 Bands/
Campfires
(Communities,
Elders, Youth,
Women's groups)

30
Governance:
Presented by Bonnie Leonard

Draft Endorsement Document:

 Want to see if we’re on the right path

 Get input
 Ask for support
 Want to take the materials from this meeting to the communities

Draft Presented for Consideration:

We hereby revitalize and stand up our language, customs,

traditions and Secwepemc governance and families founded
upon our Sovereign Laws, as handed to us by Telkukpi7 and
Skélep, evidenced in our Stseptékwll, in the national
reconstruction of our “Ranch”.
We uphold our law ‘in which the people have equal rights and is
the same as…life, itself, and without it we, the people, could not
have lived, so that we again can be ‘happy, healthy and
numerous’.
We must understand our history, and study it through the words
of those before us, our recent and long ago ancestors and
Stsptékwll.
We assert that, in relation to our people, we are embracing duty
and allegiance to Secwepemcúlecw.
On these principles, we call upon Secwepemc people to support
the establishment, in the first stage, of a Secwepemc Provisional
Government with the eventual goal being to establish a National
Secwepemc Government founded upon our laws, customs and
traditions.
We will work with ALL like-minded to develop this Secwepemc
Provisional Government and the national reconstruction of our
‘Ranch’ in all aspects: spiritually, socially, culturally, physically,
environmentally, economically, and politically.
We reach out to our Elders, Secwepemc Spiritualists, our Youth,
and all our relations for their prayers and support and
engagement.

31
 We acknowledge that first and foremost, healing must take place
at the individual, family, community, and national levels and this
is work we must all engage in and support one another in.
We recognize that the rebuilding of our Secwepemc governance
will require time to create trust, understanding, and unity within
the Secwepemc nation.
We move forward knowing that while this work won’t be easy or
accomplished quickly, this is a starting point for us to embark
upon the journey of re-establishing ourselves as the Sovereign
decision makers of Secwepemcúlecw.
Therefore, it is the agreed position of the people that
collectively we work towards the development of a
“Secwepemc Provisional Government” with the eventual
goal being to establish a National Secwepemc
Government. This work will begin with community
engagement and the proposed model will be shared with
community members for feedback.

We hope this endorsement captured everything that has been talked about,
as well as, the historical importance.

Feedback on Endorsement Draft

 Including revitalizing our language

 Want to make sure this dialogue is between the Secwepemc people
first before we talk to anybody else
o Need to get our own house in order first
 Where are they going to find all of this information?
o Website
o Facebook page
 Would really like to see our fluent speakers to be central to this
 Laying the groundwork for the people to come/generations to come
 Timelines (1-2 years)
o Short term
 From now until March 31, 2017
o Mid term
 From April 1, 2017 – March 31,2018
o Long term
 From April 1, 2018 – March 31, 2019
 Importance of the language
o Each of the bands should have a classroom session for language
classes

32
  Study our history as well
 We need to understand our history
 Maybe we need to incentive people to embark upon these
studies
 I think we’re missing some things about elders teaching youth –
physical
 Governments are formed because a group of people have similar
concerns and a likeness
o Definitely don’t want to recreate something that’s a recreation of
the Indian Act
o Reality is that most of our people don’t live on the reserve or
within the territory
 Government is about representation
 Ensuring proper representation is a barrier for us
o In creating a provisional government, it has to come from the
grassroots people
o In order to do this, we will be required to contact every person
who is Secwepemc
 Who is Secwepemc?
 Status Card?
 Other?
 If we are going to be a real nation, we need to have a
membership code
 Reestablishing Governance starts with defining, in our way,
what our membership is to us
 Hereditary family systems could be reintroduced
o Something that could be established that doesn’t have a term
o Long term training, grooming of youth from elder
o Establish this core group in each community
 Have to enter our beliefs into this document somehow – spirituality as
well
o Winter dance
 In terms of this document - are we going to end up with a declaration,
ideology, etc? Or are we just making an action plan right now?
 Conclusion: Agreed that this draft, with the inclusion of suggested
feedback (reflected in version of the full text above), shall be brought
to the communities for further engagement and then shall be brought
forward again in the near future for eventual endorsement.

Nation-to-Nation Relationship Opportunity:

33
New Liberal government has made some huge statements to media and
Canadians in regards to their desire to engage with First Nations and
improve relations.

We have been offered an opportunity to engage in dialogue with the Nation-

Nation. SNTC Chiefs have endorsed the opportunity to engage dialogue – not
to enter into an agreement. That is the work we are going to be embarking
upon. First step – securing the resources needed to support the necessary
work and host more engagement opportunities for community members.
We need enough resources to properly engage with our community
members.

Summary of Day 3 Morning:

 Status quo – not working for us
 Process needs to be inclusive and grassroots driven
 Content:
o Make space for sovereignty, spirituality, physical components
o Leave no one behind – making sure that everyone has a place in
this conversation and on our ranch
o Seeking resources from the federal government to support
nation, community and member engagement
 Social media, website, survey, community meetings, city
meetings, 5-day meeting
 Balance between asking and listening

Outcomes from Meeting:

Materials and final report will be shared on SNTC website and Facebook page
Material that has been produced to take away from this Governance
included:
1. Pre-Reading Document – What Path Will you Choose?
2. 3 Questions Summary
3. Scenario Circles
4. Proposed Governance Model
5. Draft Endorsement Document

Next Steps:
Four main next steps were identified for moving this work forward –

34
1. Secure Funds
a. The Secwepemc nation has an opportunity to engage in a nation-
to-nation dialogue with the federal government. It was agreed
that prior to being able to enter into a true nation-to-nation
discussion, we must first put in the work to rebuild our internal
affairs. As such, it was recommended that SNTC engage the
federal government to obtain the funding necessary for us to
begin this internal Secwepemc nation governance building work.

2. Community Engagement
a. In order for us to rebuild the nation, we must begin by rebuilding
our family structures. Traditionally, our family structures were
the backbones of our Secwepemc governance. We must return
to this process and in order to do so, will need to host
Secwepemc Governance discussion session in each of the
Secwepemc communities and begin to have these critical
conversations. The goal of these sessions will be to share
information and present the “Proposed Governance Model” and
“Draft Endorsement Document”, created from this meeting, to
get feedback from communities.

3. Communications
a. Feedback from the participants throughout this 3-day meeting
stressed the need for greater communications. Sharing
information and finding new ways to engage membership into
this important work will need to take place. If we are to rebuild
our Secwepemc governance, this work begins with the people
and we need to include everyone in this process.

4. Follow-up Governance Meeting

a. It was announced that a follow-up Secwepemc Governance
meeting will take place in the fall of 2016. Details of this
meeting will be announced closer to the date but it was generally
understood that its purpose will be to keep this important work
moving forward. This meeting will also serve as community
engagement and as a method to improve communications as it
will be promoted for all Secwepemc members to attend.

35
Closing Comments:
Kukpi7 Wayne Christian

Everyone here needs to go home and share what we did here these past 3
days. Discuss it over food as it’s the way of our peoples. We need to get
out of this on-reserve/off-reserve thinking. We’re all one people and the
land is all Secwepemcúlecw. Take what you learned here into your homes.
Our strength lies with our families. It’s not going to be an easy journey but
the commitment of the people here today gives us strength in moving this
work forward.

Closing Prayer – Splatsín Elders

36