DRAFT Notes from the meeting between Cliff Park Community Church (CPCC) & St Margaret’s Hopton (H)

held on Monday 8th October 2018

Present:
 Revd Michael Asquith (Rural Dean),
 Michael Cook (PCC, H),
 Stephen Ford (CW, H),
 Catherine Howe (CEO, NWCT),
 Tracy Mayne (LT, CP),
 Irene Nickerson (CW, H),
 Pam Perry (PCC, H),
 Revd Mike Simm (LT, CP)
 Pat Sayers (LT, CP),
 Revd Simon Stokes (Chairman)
 Jamie Wyllie (LT, CP).
There were no apologies. (email addresses were collected prior to the meeting in order that notes could be
distributed once available)

The meeting started with prayers.

Progress since meeting in July:

It was noted that the members of the St Margaret’s PCC and CPCC Leadership Team held a meeting on 4 th October to
keep the ball moving and to clarify their thinking.

The Chairman started the meeting by asking 2 questions.

1. Where do you think you are?
2. How do you think it is going?

Structure:
The issues of how they would join together & govern themselves was raised by both parties
Different models of church were discussed noting that CPCC may not, currently, fit any LEP or Anglican model.
The membership are aware they have critical issues to resolve & changes to their current structure are required.
It was not the intention of CPCC to exactly replicate themselves in Hopton.
The future status of St Margaret’s as the Parish church for the local Parish was also raised which Hopton did not wish
to lose. It was felt that a new re-drawn parish of Hopton & Cliff Park might be formed as part of the solution.
Within this, there might be 2 congregations
 Some to remain at CPCC as now
 For a group to plant from CPCC to support the new joint venture at Hopton allowing a new & different entity
to be created in Hopton by the joint team & would try different things.
The Archdeacon wishes there to be an appropriate structure to take them forward that honours both traditions.
It was noted that
 an LEP does not, de facto, need to have a building. However, having a building might be seen as key aspect in
the development of a church.
 Also, there is a standard document for an LEP (Model Governing Document - found on the CTE website)
should that route be followed)

It was then agreed that issues of (legal) structure & governance would be considered, once the question of how
they might work more closely together was answered.
Step 1 was to achieve a broad common understanding between the 2 parties.
To answer the Chairman’s questions above. It was felt by both churches that they were
 welcoming in their approach
 very much focussed on mission. However, to date, the seeds sown by Hopton have yet to be translated into
new regular members of their Sunday congregations.
CPCC feel they may help with their resources & alternative approaches to music & preaching.
By working together, they can take the best from both to move forward, although it was noted there was a significant
difference in the relative sizes of their congregations (& corresponding resources)

From the perspective of Hopton: it was noted that

 there was a readiness to see change in their church
 that there would be big implications
 they wished to see new life breathed into their services
 they acknowledged that they were currently ‘in a rut’
 there was a willingness to form new groups (eg alpha, mother& toddler, house groups)
 possible changes could be made within the church & hall layout to support the new activities. (The local
Baptist church had recently spent c£200K re-developing their building in Gorleston)
The view was expressed that it is critical that God’s will for growth & evangelism should be discerned
Hopton are concerned that their buildings & facilities are currently significantly under-utilized & are seeking help to
use these better

From the perspective of Cliff Park CC:

 There was an honest attempt to try & start to articulate the key ‘modi operandi’ of CPCC, considered by some
of their congregation that it was felt might be well out of the ‘comfort zone’ of some members of Hopton
 They are uncomfortable with the current appointment process of a successor should, for any reason not
currently anticipated, MS step down
 It was acknowledged that there was concern in getting all of CPCC to buy in to the idea of the integration but
that this need not be a ‘deal breaker’..

An issue articulated which may need further discussion & resolution was:
Holy Communion: Whereas at CPCC, elders could preside at communion, those within Hopton wished the elements
to be consecrated by a priest. Members of Hopton are happy for a CPCC style of communion to take place in their
church; however some asked that a conventional Anglican style of Eucharist celebration would also take place at
some point during the week for them too. The attitude of the local community would be key.

The styles /options of other occasional offices were also discussed:

1. Baptism Policy:
CPCC indicated that they could accommodate both Anglican & Baptist rites & the parents were free to
choose.
It was also explained that within the Anglican tradition, parents were offered a thanksgiving service for the
birth of their baby (where they felt less comfortable about the qualifying criteria of the baptism service)
2. Confirmation:
Again, the variety of options are offered by CPCC: either by + Graham at CPCC, joining with a bigger group at
St Andrews. Adult baptism would be the Baptist equivalent.
3. Marriages:
During the time, CPCC have held marriages of those in their congregation at their local Anglican churches
(where MS is the Associate Priest).

Other issues raised:

 1. Timing: Nothing (relating to governance) can happen until the present incumbent of Hopton retires (thought
to be July 2019)
Some experimental things could not take place until after that date: it would need to be at the invitation of
the incumbent. However, it was felt that CPCC could use some of their space sooner.
2. Concerns about proposal not getting sufficient support when it is put to the vote in their respective
churches: This was talked through. Neither sides are without issues. It will be a shared risk to both.
Hopefully the more time they spend together, the greater the likelihood of success / a positive outcome

Deciding the way forward:

It was felt that there needed to be some more face-to-face meetings between CPCC & Hopton.

Let’s try to set up a Mission Partnership & plan: (utilizing the Diocesan process devised by David Hayden)
 Let’s start the conversation
 Let’s see what we both mean; how common, compatible are our ideas?
 Let’s write down what we would hope to do / achieve
 What might this look like?
 Let’s look at an aspect of how the partnership might work – to see it in action eg modern music
 Then this can be shared with the wider churches

This whole group would then meet again on Monday 26th November at 7.30pm at St Margaret’s Church Hall,
Hopton.

Encouraging words:
 There was a confidence that if this is of God, a way through it will be found.
 It was mentioned more than once during the meeting that there was a positive momentum about their
discussions which was increasing each time the parties met; ‘detect excitement’, ‘movement of the Spirit’
since the last meeting.

Catherine Howe 11/10/18

PS In case any of you have a spare few minutes, I was at the CTE Forum 1 last month (with all 6 CTE Presidents 2) It was
an inspiring & encouraging few days & I enclose the presentation given by the retiring CTE General Secretary David
Cornick. There is much more on the CTE website 3

1
Bringing together over three hundred representatives of CTE's Member Churches, Intermediate Bodies, Co-ordinating Groups
and Bodies in Association, CTE's Forum is the broadest representative ecumenical gathering of Christians in England.
2
Archbishop Justin Welby the Archbishop of Canterbury,
Cardinal Vincent Nichols the Cardinal Archbishop of Westminster,
Revd Dr Hugh Osgood the Free Churches Moderator,
Revd Canon Billy Kennedy the President nominated by the New Churches, the Religious Society of Friends (ie the Quakers) and
the Lutheran and German-speaking Churches,
Archbishop Angaelos of London the President for the Orthodox Churches
Pastor Agu Irukwu the Pentecostal President).

3
www.cte.org.uk