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    Miguel Tejada
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    On the failures of mh plane investigation

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    ROI-BILLY-SIX

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    On the failures of mh plane investigation

    Copyright:

    © All Rights Reserved
    Download as PDF or read online from Scribd
    Flag for inappropriate content
    17 views15 pages

    Roi Billy Six

    Uploaded by

    Miguel Tejada
    On the failures of mh plane investigation

    Copyright:

    © All Rights Reserved
    Download as PDF or read online from Scribd
    Flag for inappropriate content
    of 15
    UNCLASSIFIED AFP RECORD OF INTERVIEW {NOT TO BE SHARED (MTH UKRAINE} Phone: (02) 6131 at00 RECORD OF INTERVIEW BETWEEN AFP OFFICER TWO ONE FIVE THREE TWO AND BILLY SIX CONDUCTED AT SCHIPHOL POLICE UNIT, AMSTERDAM, Soe as ‘ON MONDAY TWELVE OCTOBER TWO:THOUSAND AND IFTEEN PERSONS PRESENT: AFP OFFICER TWO ONE FIVE THREE TWO BEN OFrSER ONE SEVEN ONE NETS TWO TIME COMMENCED; FIVE SEVENTEEN PM. AEP TWO ONE FIVE THREE TWO: This is 2 digital record of interview conducted between Australian Federat Police Officer two ons five three two and witness Mr Billy SIX conducted at Schiphol Police Unit, Amstorciam, the Notheriands on Nonday the twelfth of October two thousand and fifteen, at. Mr Billy SiX, do you agree that the ne is now five sixteen pin by my phone? A Five seventeen. a2. Five seventeen, A Yas. ‘Persons present are myself, AFP two one five three two, and my colleague. NPH ONE SEVEN ONE NINE TWO: NPN one sovan-one nine to. SK: And Mr Bll 81K. AFP TWO ONE FIVE THREE TWO: aa, Mr Billy SIX, A ‘Yeon. as. ‘Mr Billy SIX, do you agres that prior to thie intorview commencing we teeta Consorsntioy te you agteed thet the tforonton tat you're ‘about to give us can be submitted to the courites the Netherlands, Australia, Bolglum and Malaysia, but mot the Ukraine? Exactly. Qs. Okay. And | fustwish to make referonce to a letter that you received. Mr Billy SIX, would you agree todlay that you racolved a letter that ‘was signéd but if's.@ scanned cony of a lettet that was signed by Public Progscutor NIEUWENHUIS? A Bch. » ‘Yansetbes bit ro recored by 4 UNELASSIFIED ‘ROTBETWEEN AFP TWO ONE FIVE THREE TWO/AIX... CONTINUED ... PAGE? [a9 A “NPHEONE: ‘AFP TWO att. A afd, ats. ang, ae, ats. ai, ‘And the letter: “Dear Mit Six, the Dutch Natistuit Patiad wif Interview you f Younave stated that you do not want your . ‘Siaternent to be shared with totelgn tnvestigators. | herewith conto {hat your staternent wll only be part of the Dutch investigation file.” Bo you agree with that? Yee. Okay. Hl hand you that letter, ‘Okay, Lat's go thrat jh what you're walling te shares = (No sitidibte reply ‘SEVEN ONE NINE TWO: Buti this caso? ‘Wa share with all menibars except UKralie, Ukraine, Yes. Yeah. Okay. Yap? ONE FIVE THREE Two: Yep. State Start ‘So thes folder name is “Uiraine ghalinotsée”" Yeah? Yep, And! opén If now. And the fret folder le “Airport Luganek, Blily pictures.” Now, we're just contirming, Mr Billy SIX, that you'ra copying all those. Hes over to the hard-disk. Is that correct? ‘Yos, that’s correct, Okey. ‘So what | have Kara is, ah, photo material ltook to show, 2h, how the ‘part looked after the fighting, And this is inporiamt because, af, Wi talked regarding the billboard video, about a corridor when wag between, um; Ukrathian, wh, main fordtory and the Ubratntan Army in tho altport and shows that the fighting wes heavy. And, ah, this those are seventeen, um, pictures, Yep. And ah, they wore made al, ah, twenty-sixth of, th, Janiry. Pig And you stated they ware taken by you? ‘ranted bt tot tien by 14 2 UNCLASSIFIED ROL BETWEEW-AFP TWO ONE FiVE THREE TWOPRIX . CONTINUED... PAGE 3 O10. And you stated thay wate takion of anulpiort ‘what sorect? x Alrport of Lugansk, yean, G19. Yeah, Liigenske. Okay, A Yean? a eis next folder (3 the hiliboard video street picts taken In unis {wie thotisand and fifteen and-givon, fome by ar‘informarit. Sotha Sain streot | went mysulf in January, Grice more images from, ah, dune, Sica them, Okay, A Shas indletinot} wivere tie Bukwas.driving, and there waa Biiboard, aly, with car before. O22 Yap. « Yeah. $2 Ad you aie not take thene, Youwere given thein ty someone eles? Nos. Yea. And, uiny ay tts important because aa I give you hese later on, tts from winter. Okay. So now you ean--- 924, A NPN ONE SEVEN ONE NINE TWo: 28 = Compare. A ‘See the difference and compara. 026. a 27. A Yeu. Jeane Yoo. $005. Next folder. Um, imaigos f craah site, Grabovo and Rassypnoyne, was given to me by infarmant, so, G78, Right ater the crash? A Ah, K's a mix, Ah, Weaks attor, but ati all the wreckage Is there. But the preblom ls tht, ah tho.carnara was, un, notch, ceefign ene Sorrectty because it shows: wrong dates. G0. Okay. «a It showai two thoussnd and two, whichis'--. AFP TWO ONE FIVE THREE TWO: 230. Yep, a Ah, he shows to me ifs three hundred sind. forty-one images - * Tedensthedeteol recoded Wy O11 5 ‘UNCLASSiFiED ROI BETWEEN AFP TWO ONE FIVE THEEE Tworsix + CONTINUED... PAGE 4 Qa. Okay, A Wich I cannot relly magi, Haeaui K deeer?t look 20 mush, Oho Torment. Yeat:but ite threa hiindred and forty-one. ase. Okay. A I don't Know it~ shall wo count 7 NPN ONE SEVEN ONE NINE TWO: No, APP TWO ONE FIVE THREE TWO: 31. Na;no. #., a ‘The computer Says three hundesd andforty-orie, a, Yeah, ry BULC doesn't look for tne tks. O36. Yep. That's olay. You've copied over the fila, so whatever ie inthe file--- ry Like: okay. GN. And you'vo stated thatthe ifnages wore not tiken by yout They werd given to you by someone fsa, i that ooreect? A ej fes. by one informant. & shows weeckage ofthe, ah, cockpit, a, Io Raseypneyne and, ah, of tho main fusslage In, aby Graken Qa. Yet, it looks like three hundred and forty-one, A Yeah? There's ten actoss, NPNLONE SEVEN ONE NINE TWO: a8, a AFP TWO ONE FIVE THREE TWO: 038, And one down the bottom by itself, A Yeah. 240, a ‘site in Grabovo giver to me by Andvideas, An, immediately after the ‘O41, And how meny images até thors? A At, but I have to add that actually it’s » bit crowded because} have ‘also some, ah, ihiges here showing the attacks in the August, shou, Sri August, from the Ukraine Army in tho ston. Red ao showe, ah, obviously later on in: ‘the: r twenty-six November, um, ‘wreckage in Grabove and obviously, ah, also ‘twenty-six Novembar. Tursetbedut sd meonded by ott NCL ABsIRED: ROI BETWEEN AFP TWO ONE FIVE THREE TWVOISIX.... CONTINUED . PAGE 5 ‘36. tia co that, un, In-twisnty-zixth of Novembor tions wars. documenta iying in tho fara, A Um, imonay, Twenty November, yanh, if this date ts correct. i Yop. a But | think so, betalisé Itlocks plausible. | see. some show. Anite fest snow as at the srid Of November, OHA, Okay, Agaltnitwie can contin lieve images were not taken by, yourcalt? a Yes, QE, Thay. were diven to you byaniinformant: te titeoract? A ‘That'é correct. But, ah, yeah--> GWE. And how many are there? A «<= lean, i's surprising me that, oh, those things ware sill ying thare. GHP. —_Yep. How many files have you gol tidra, or iniages? a Hisim. Seventy-ntie, as, Okay. A Yop. ‘Yop. NPN ONE SEVEN ONE NINE TWO: Q49, Okay, Seventy-nine. Yes. A ‘So the haxt one fa Images of boinbing Grabovo in August two. thousand fourteen, given to me by an informant. Ninetean slemedts. AFP TWO ONE FIVE THREE TWO: Qs0, Okay, And why are you giving us this? . A Because Itshows that ths Ulraintay Army bombed! ah, the teritory _Bround! the wreckage-and, ab, tis people in the village told me there fae nobody of rebels inside and there was 10 battles on the ground, it lft = NPN ONE SEVEN ONE NINE TWO: Q81. You mean that they are bombing the crash site? A. Yes. \APPTWO ONE FIVE THREE TWo: Qs Okay, And when you say they're bombed by the Ukraitiian Army, did you seg any planes? “anaes tert ert by BY 5 UNSLASSIFIED ‘ROLBETWEEN AFP TWO ONE FIVE THREE TWOISKX... CONTINUED .. PAGES a ‘O83. A “2 78 B 7E 78 >D > & 8 Euracrt prowont: Fs atten ven to me fom people are trom twentyaic August. Okay, So did they state to you that it wae Ukrainian planes’? No, not, ah, not pinnae. (twas, un, ah --- still Yeah, oomethtg heaton, jh. Okay. Tabu chk is coil ah ame thoy tot mo but voreting the artiiery Grad bn tite way, Yop. Okay. From miliary vehicles fram the ground fing a, scmathing te missiles, ‘Okay. As thay say; from ten dlometres- away: Okay. Somathing fio that. ‘Ak, it the fokler before we oven sae of fuck fn the ~ stuck in the grand. Yop. : Nonéxploded. if| go back, it’s this‘one. Okay. And it's peopl in the village who told you thls, did you say? Yes. Oieay, bm. Yeah? Yep. ‘The next one. Krasnoarmelak; ah, isa town under Ukrainian control, and | took pictures in December and, urs, it shows, ah, car-company In Nepapattovek Street, thirty-four, where the Russian, ah, Gavernmentand main TV ctalmed, ah, the billboard af the Buk, ah, ‘Video, ah, showed — allegedly showed the address of, ah, thle place. Yop. ‘Yeah. Ah, butwhen | talked with the boss there, Hie told me, “No, it's Rot our biliboard," And also sysin the people everywhere told-6, pa tes place ia not Krasoarmalsk.” And! edit, becauso on the Internat it was talk by t don’t know whorn, ah, tke an ongolng tory, that Gorky Stroet shatiid Have to, or altegecily be, the place of where ‘the Euk—whore the billboard poster, ab, was atanding. And f edit lctures of the Gorky Street whore you'can seo that, ah, ah, It's othing what looks, ah, similar to what we can see in this felstosn, ‘seconds video. ‘ranted bid rt nondad by O41 6 UNGLASsIFIED, ROLBETWEEN APF IANO ONE FIVE THREE TWGiiux...coNTINUED .. PAGE oe Okay. Yeah, kahit Ape eae l fe aig jen, four yen dave you any Escola tase ladles the keinpamy which shows:sli~ (man, t's Russian. Feouldn't read myself; Just! could ask some transtatore 16 axptnin me whut! a Yeah, But lke dataihere the boss say that, “Que company put bitboarde In these pinces, the addrepees,” mi " Okay: ‘Ao, sini, kugirisk is not partorit, And who took thasa photos’? Me. Okay. ‘And what date dt you take thom? Fifteenth of Daceimber two thousand anid fourteen, Okay. Aud youstated you spoke to the oss of a ecmpany. Are you able to tell us the boas's name? Pardon? ‘You stated that you spoke to the boss of a company, ‘Yeali, of thie company. Yep. Do you laiow the boss's jaime? Yes. ‘Are you able to tell us thet? No, ‘Ghsv.. Are you tbe fo tell us the name of the company? Um, yes. Ah—hmen, 4 straige name, Sang Yong is wiitten there, Okay. But) have tia ~Itls x bussiness cars Yep. Okay, Mine, Sang Yong. And you iave-ovan the phone number, We af kage showing the business card. Yep. ‘Mon-hroro. Sang Yong.” And you have even the phone nuriber Okay. “Teascoted bt ta ncarda yO ? ONGLASSIFIED ROIBETWEEN AFP TWO ONE FIVE THREE TWOVSIX .. CONTINUED... PAGES Salf youwantte, ah, cok then ofiictall We, Ae YO I . adrtoe. And, noun ay ara asian Sovsoes a heen ‘aretiony, Yen. NEN ONE SEVEN OWE NINE: TWO: Okay, SOK Yor? ‘NPN ONE SEVEN ONE RINE TWO: Yeo, AFP TWO ONE-FIVE THREE Two: i ee Now, again aboot the tilloostd story. Luyanek Streit, | give low, ~ you pictures. Thave, ab, not only pictures, pictures and videos, | have taken, 082, Olay, a Ite forty-thide plenionts, NPN ONE SEVEN ONE NINE TWO: a Okay, r ahows the biflooard. It shows the houses whore Kwae ‘made from, AFP TWO ONE FIVE THREE TWO: O84, wm, A And it shows certain siements of this fourteen seconds, ah, video. Ves? NPN ONE SEVEN ONE NINE TWO: Ye. ‘AFP TWO ONE FIVE THREE TWO: 85. Yas. 4A ‘Aino mide from the house, to have some similar perspactive, Oba: ‘Yop. Okay. And what date were these taken? A Ah, It’ different dates, O87. Okay, Betwoon «- A Ete of January. QH8, Okay. Two thousand and? a Fifteen. 20. Olay, A You? “Tedrsciod ot et recor by Crt UNCLASSIFIED ROIBETWEEN AFP-TWO ONE FIVE THREE TWO/8IX... CONTINUED .. PAGES: R80 Yep: - A So how shotawof mo whist | iuia on the:erash sfte, one hundéed and alght eloments, NPN ONE SEVEN ONE NINE TWO; B84, Okay, Ana what date? a {No audible reply) ‘Oaz. “You pride thar by yourself? K You. O53. Okay. a ‘Ab, notall Gtthem, Some were made by xomeboity, 086, Mim. Okay. n Twenty-nine November. [AFP TWO ONE FIVE THREE Two: 05, Whatyear? A Two thousarid aiid fourteen, Okey . So that means the Original tah I mentionsd tho wong dats, because ‘said thirty. But i reality, bwenty.nina. ag7. Yap. A ‘When | reached, ah, first time. Good. So now, ah, pictures of crash given to me by informants. It's four pletures, /And J think this is quite important bocause first picture, um, somebody, ah, of rebels took from (nidistincd) it's « bil! In the Donbars, and you Gan sae, ah the iandscape, you cain 80¢ the amoke of the crashed | Boeing, 9, tim. & ‘You can soe that i's, ah, visible for ninstaon kilometres at least, which you can compara with xmap betweon (indistinct) and the ‘rash site, And it must have boen Just sore minutes after tha ccash, but you don't see any Buk frall. And I's Important becausa, ah, Pervomalaky, the field bealdes whore it was clalmed for Bellingost, {for instance; the Buk was red from there, So we should sae something here golag up in the sty, but we don’t see anything, ho ‘apour teal NPN ONE SEVEN ONE NINE TWo: ae ieee ‘whee the ploturs is taken, Is that the monument? 100, Okay, Tianacibasbui not ented by OT ° UNCLASSIIED ROIBETWEEN AFP TWO ONE Five THEE TWoMK.... CONTINUED 4 PAGE 10 A aie, a ‘Ote2, A ai04, A 105, a So the héxt two plotaraa uth. shaw mada je, ut at th fat of Bhizbnoyalt close to # big Fectory, a Stover i's 2 Vilage clad Pushiinedy a rrestf Eplogat sy enatcane ter ee ‘Ore amoka of the eras! . Dut you don't sap any vapour tral going ‘up from the fold, which Is jut aftar the factory, ioe. Okay. as ‘So now! come back to Me BIEDERMANN’ liformation, This pour trall stays sight te tan minutos tn the. those at¢ tivo pittinas, Bod now the laa. Ue, sh, one interwar tom, Luts the area who} Marie eauonOvaG in anny, Gave me the pictuty ander ‘leita of hm took from say, ah, place around the cast ane ‘Yeu? Mm, Qniihe was vary-atrala. He ctn't wart, um, ah, anyone to ae, ah, mmade au Ro HL nabody can know from where is sate eat Tio Sovertcon ty UIbOTARL ALOK this pituro, which wae ade anes peaele ree of duly st four thiystour, that, ah he clalmet siece Seople have. made the picture because they saW~ thay wanted to SMe the plane inthe sky, And indeodityou it you se slower, you S20 somettying, ah, wera there, ke a dark dot. Gut Fm not an athor this ls at, fake oF whethor this is foal. Just this picture ie mantpuléted because something was cut, and he aided, um, a place torake it ah, Biggar the eee Yeah, al Si area vintch shows the alleged plane was not touched ts Hea Zame with the, ah, 90 callod original, because stil getit from a fleehedva, | eanmotknow t's an etginal From a likes Photo chip. Min. So Itjumped at least ons time from one, ah, eink to another, Yean, Bee BO Mart 900 any any changes, and it ate have, 4h, original data in I. Okay? AFP TWO ONE FIVE THREE two: ates, A ator. a Okay. Yep. ‘So next folder. twentto: Pushkinsky myself in eighteenth, ‘Of January, The place where Correctitand the others. blamed the~no, claimed ‘the Buk-was fired, on. So Hepoke with, ahi think fourteen witnesses who tald there was, NPN ONE SEVEN ONE NINE Two: atoe, Fourteen? ‘Transits una ncated by DT 10 UNCLASSIFIED, ROIBETIEEH AFP TWO ONE Five THREE THOM. CONTINUED PAGE 14 A Fourteen tho Buk facincbiei otha day 0 APETWO ONE FIVE THREE TW 102. ‘Okay, . A «-rthey sam. And 381d on the previous’ ataterssck that some stv or heard ¢ plane. and this (s just, um, Plchires showing me fn the ~ th ‘ths piace, Qf. And ivhars wos thin? A Pushkinsky? GN, Thats. town? A Yeah: dtsa-smait’ ‘Village hare, ‘NPN ONE SEVEN ONE NINE TWO: ‘Okay, AFP TWO ONE FIVE THREE TWO: tia, & ott: a atte, A O195, A ante, a ans, K arta. A ota, A 120. 86 thera an image-sliowing whisre Ite? Yep. ‘Yor. ‘And the photos before! spoke, thoy ware maite from this house, Nop. Okay. Ani what dats wore thoy taken? Mook ty, ah, elghteenth of January, And how ihaty tinagse ace there? ‘Thiety-tour: Twomtytour? ‘Thlety ~ thirty four. Thirty-four Oxay, prcnanca lust not to cantise from one of the informants ah, |teoke thea, cgene camera, show milter Jats of the Ukraln Wr wee se thea, natin quits tow, ah, wilch atiows people dome eran ie Maks, aay Nave carverna, they have, ah, rolls devices, The. oF irae ogi Seti ao ¥ hove wes « Buk vapour tal. ‘or launching ‘stints Buk mistile, somebody musi have takety ah, shina rae Seagate ‘this:on the cartora fisra deosn't show the seventeenth of fo. ‘Transedbad but not rented by 4 UNCLASSIFIED ROLBETWEEN: AFP TWO ONE FVETIIREE THOSIK,.CONTINED .. page 4 This t knowt6e dure, bacnune iaak hin, $0 now the next felaue, Midas of Ukrainian Alt Porce tlic douply | aTROH given toma b Inforists. Wt tree videog <2 78 1 a aor A 128, ota. aize. Qi29, ano, a ota. A ane: Stay, ‘So the mot Homi] Aronrten Kiomitroe Iii the: Thay Weed to.ge ver) dap tonne Somnow the lat leldon wireasen Three witnesses, ah, | give'to ‘you kwraiiee.ttey appearedin tha public already. Mam. peneke with tem, These people cénfitmed. But, ss, in the past any ‘appeared parts oF. So now I giva you he woolen hey ‘Yep, Ate you able to tell wa Whi these witnesses are? Haclading the translation, So the frat witness fs one man.in kine, His tame~ Alexander, A former eoldter te finalstinet) wis Bay there wae io Buk bunched on this ald, Becaves ta tees next to the fleld, Okay. ‘ARG he heard ah, the'simtanes, One moment. V1 Just = yoah, be heard. He heard two planes. ‘And what date was that movie conducted? Eighteenth of January - -- Two thousand - ‘Fwa thousand and fittoon. Yep. Sethe second one, th hie name is Jenner, He's a student. He was 22g Gre tavltig he hoard tuo plans In tha sky on thn day He didn't Ba heard amneh oo souk Ho was present in thie vilage that day ort he heard a smail one— 2 sail éxplosion in the ak, afterwards abig exploaionin the sky, And that intarview wes conducted by yourself? Yox. And what date yas ie ‘Ay, actually you'll see me tn the'vidoo. Yep. ‘Sol tiave somebody with re who mado ft. Okey. ‘But with my camera, ‘Teams bt ne mncondd by O° ” UNCLASSIFIED ROI BETWEEN AFP Two ONE Five THREE: TWOPIX... CONTINUED _ PAE ts ‘GM. Yeah, Thate okay, A mtn GIS6, And what dite wan 17 A Eighiteohth of January... CUBE: Okay, A + solo tousand anid fftien, Gis Yep, A Breer ate te one te a fnarviow, aby with porsora cated Piota dete) Set GERAD, ee fare ibablians op ‘Forez {ind iat aay: We ‘ah, the mecond Pi ag ese he how: it fired a minsite, NPN ONE SEVEN ONE NINE TWO: G47 “Whatfired 2 oilssite? a Alr-to-ait mitsstie, Aitstoair, ‘AFP TWO ONE FIVE THREE Two; G88. ‘So he stated thai honaw that, a you way? A Yor. Mea-fimm, Qt39. anc what date waa this taken

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