Jeffrey E. de Seriere II THE BAND PROGRAM AT CALIFORNIA STATE UNIVERSITY, LONG BEACH

THE BAND PROGRAM AT CALIFORNIA STATE UNIVERSITY, LONG BEACH:
ITS HISTORY AND CONTRIBUTIONS TO THE WIND BAND MEDIUM
A PROJECT REPORT
Presented to the Bob Cole Conservatory of Music
California State University, Long Beach
In Partial Fulfillment
of the Requirements for the Degree
Master of Music
Concentration in Conducting-Instrumental
Committee Members:
John Alan Carnahan, M.A. (Chair)

Jermie Arnold, D.M.A
Anthony Mazzaferro, D.M.A
Robert Frear, M.M.
College Designee:
Johannes Müller Stosch, D.M.A
By Jeffrey E. de Seriere II
B.M., 2013, California State University, Long Beach
May 2018

ProQuest Number: 10786018

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ABSTRACT
THE BAND PROGRAM AT CALIFORNIA STATE UNIVERSITY, LONG BEACH:
ITS HISTORY AND CONTRIBUTIONS TO THE WIND BAND MEDIUM
By
Jeffrey E. de Seriere II
May 2018
In order to look back at the history of the band program at California State University,
Long Beach (CSULB), this report begins by considering two concepts that may seem abstract to
any reader outside of the “band” world: “wind band/ensemble” and the creation of the Eastman
Wind Ensemble. Then, the history of the band program is analyzed in five distinct periods. First,
the early years of the “Beach” bands spanned from 1951 to 1964. The conductor H. Robert
Reynolds took charge from 1964 to 1968 and brought what was then the California State College
of Long Beach bands to national acclaim. From 1968 to 1969, Don Wilcox served as the Director
of Bands. Larry Curtis’s tenure as Director of Bands from 1969 to 1994 became the longest in
the program’s history; he continued to build the marching band and brought the program to
international acclaim. In 1994, John Alan Carnahan took over as conductor and continues in that
role; he has been active in the creation of the “Long Beach Sound” and the continued excellence
of the band program. The report uses interviews and archival material to document the
development of band program with recommendations about further research and preservation of
documents important to the history of the band program at CSULB.
ii
ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS
I’d like to extend my deepest gratitude to my family, whose love and understanding allow
me to follow whatever dreams I may have.
Many thanks to my committee members, Professor John Carnahan (chair), Dr. Jermie
Arnold (committee member), Dr. Anthony Mazzaferro (committee member), and Professor
Robert Frear for their guidance and support. Each one of these gentlemen are a mentor to me,
and their guidance has been paramount in the completion of this project.
To H. Robert Reynolds and Larry Curtis, thank you for your time and care. Without you,
I’d be lost.
To all those who have played a role in creating the culture of excellence and artistry in
the CSULB Band Program, thank you. You have created a community of tradition and
innovation that continues to provide for many.
Dedication
For my Grandfather, Linnae “Bucky” Harris Berg.
iii
TABLE OF CONTENTS
ABSTRACT.................................................................................................................................. ii
ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS.......................................................................................................... iii
LIST OF FIGURES ...................................................................................................................... v
1. AN INTRODUCTION TO THE MODERN WIND BAND/ENSEMBLE…………….. 1
2. THE EARLY YEARS OF THE “BEACH” BANDS: 1951-1964 ................................... 7
3. H. ROBERT REYNOLDS 1964 (JANUARY)-1968: BRINGING THE CSCLB

BANDS TO NATIONAL ACCLAIM.................................................................. 20
4. DON WILCOX 1968-1969............................................................................................... 27
5. LARRY CURTIS 1969-1994: BRINGING THE CSULB BAND PROGRAM TO

INTERNATIONAL ACCLAIM .......................................................................... 29
6. JOHN ALAN CARNAHAN 1994-CURRENT: CREATION OF THE “LONG

BEACH SOUND” AND CONTINUED EXCELLENCE.................................... 34
7. IN RETROSPECT AND RECOMMENDATIONS......................................................... 40
APPENDICES .............................................................................................................................. 42
A. INTERVIEW WITH H. ROBERT REYNOLDS............................................................. 43
B. INTERVIEW WITH LARRY CURTIS ........................................................................... 69
C. INTERVIEW WITH JOHN ALAN CARNAHAN.......................................................... 91
BIBLIOGRAPHY ...................................................................................................................114
iv
LIST OF FIGURES
1. Dr. Bertram McGarrity. .................................................................................................... 8
2. Dr. Robert W. Winslow .................................................................................................... 9
3. Dr. Robert Winslow and the LBSC Band......................................................................... 10
4. Dr. Robert Winslow leading the band in a performance at a school assembly. ............... 11
5. Dr. Sanford Helm.............................................................................................................. 11
6. Program from first formal concert of Long Beach State College Concert Band.............. 13
7. Mr. Charles J. Payne ......................................................................................................... 16
8. Dr. John E. Green.............................................................................................................. 17
9. Professor H. Robert Reynolds........................................................................................... 20
10. Handwritten letter from Darius Milhaud to H. Robert Reynolds, June 23, 1967 ............. 24
11. Professor Larry Curtis....................................................................................................... 29
12. Professor John Alan Carnahan......................................................................................... 34
v
CHAPTER 1
AN INTRODUCTION TO THE MODERN WIND BAND/ENSEMBLE
In order to look back at the history of the band program at California State University,
Long Beach (CSULB), it is important to recognize two concepts that can be considered abstract
to any reader outside of the “band” world: (1) the term “wind band/ensemble,” its means in a
modern context and how it will be used in this paper, and (2) the creation of the Eastman Wind
Ensemble.
Defining the Term “Wind Band/Ensemble”
Prior to 1952, bands were ensembles that served purposes such as civic duty, military
duty, public entertainment, and so on. There were very few ensembles that were seeking
legitimacy in the art music world, and finding an audience in a football stadium, or park band
stand, was simpler than finding one in the concert hall. This had a great deal to do with a lack of
identity and musical leadership. The term wind band is a very broad term that can include any
gathering of wind instruments: Civil War brass band, harmoniemusik, 1 football marching band,
military band, symphony band, symphonic band, etc. These are all ensembles that employ the
use of wind instruments to create a musical experience. In the introduction to his book, The
Winds of Change, Frank Battisti makes a point of explaining his use of the term wind
band/ensemble by saying, “This term reflects the belief that the greatest opportunities in
repertoire selection and advancement lie in the performance of the best literature written for both
of these ensembles. To me ‘contemporary wind band/ ensemble’ is the proper term to describe
1
Harmoniemusik , a court ensemble made up of wind instruments that prevailed in the
late eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries; Roger Hellyer, "Harmoniemusik," Grove Music
Online, Oxford Music Online, Oxford University Press, accessed March 23, 2015, http://www
.oxfordmusiconline.com.mcc1.library.csulb.edu/subscriber/article/grove/music/12392.
1
ensembles that pursue this practice.” 2 It is my intent to use the same term throughout this paper
in order to be flexible with the wind band/ensembles that have been a part of the band program at
CSULB.
The Eastman Wind Ensemble: Historical Background
The significance of the year 1952 seems strange in the history of the wind band
/ensemble, a history that spans from the sixteenth century to modern times. It is significant
because this was the year that one man’s idea came to fruition. This man was devoted to the
wind band/ensemble since he first stepped foot on the campus of the Eastman School of Music as
an undergraduate student in 1933. In the fall of 1933, a young Frederick Fennell came to find
that there was no wind group of any kind on the campus of the University of Rochester. He
approached the athletic director to ask how he could become the drum major of the marching
band. That inquiry led to Fennell taking on the task of starting a marching band at the University
of Rochester. 3 In the winter of 1935, the marching band moved to an indoor venue, Strong
Auditorium, at the University of Rochester where they put on the first performance of the
University of Rochester Concert Band. In 1937, the name of the ensemble would change to the
Eastman School Symphony Band. 4 Frederick Fennell maintained his position as the conductor of
this ensemble until 1943 when he took a leave of absence to take on an international fellowship
in conducting at the Mozarteum Academy in Salzburg, Austria and to join the war effort as the
2
Frank L. Battisti, The Winds of Change (Galesville, MD: Meredith Music Publications,
2002), xv.
William D. Nicholls, dir., Frederick Fennel: A Life of Joyful Discovery (Costa Mesa,
3
CA: Orange Coast Productions, 2004), DVD.

4
Frank Cipolla and Donald Hunsberger, "Appendix A1A," in The Wind Ensemble and Its
Repertoire: Essays on the Fortieth Anniversary of the Eastman Wind Ensemble, ed. Frank
Cipolla and Donald Hunsberger (Rochester, NY: University of Rochester Press, 1994), 210.
2
Western Regional USO Music Advisor until 1945. 5
In the fall of 1945, Frederick Fennell returned to the University of Rochester as the
Associate Conductor of Eastman School Orchestras. 6 Although his main duties were with the
orchestra, Fennell continued to conduct the Symphony Band. On February 5, 1951, Fennell put
on a concert that was supported by the orchestral department called “Concert Music for Wind
Instruments.” 7 Fennell describes the program, “This evening of music began with a Ricercare for
wind instruments by Adrian Willaert (1480-1562) and ended 10 compositions later with the
Symphonies of Wind Instruments by Igor Stravinsky.” 8 Fennell goes on to say, “The direct result
of this evening of original music for wind instruments was the establishment in the Fall of 1952
of the Eastman Wind Ensemble.” 9
In 1951, while in the hospital with a case of infectious hepatitis, hepatitis, the ailing
Frederick Fennell was visited by the director of the Eastman School of Music, Dr. Howard
Hanson. Fennell shared his idea of the wind ensemble with Dr. Hanson who was in support of
the effort. In September of 1952 the Eastman Symphonic Wind Ensemble had its first rehearsal,
and on February 8, 1953 they had their first performance in Kilbourn Hall at the Eastman School
of Music. 10
5
Nicholls, Frederick Fennell: A Life of Joyful Discovery.
6
Ibid.
7
Cipolla and Hunsberger, “Appendix A1A,” 219.
8
Frederick Fennell, “The Wind Ensemble,” The American Music Teacher 2, no. 4
(March-April): 12.
9
Ibid.
10
Nicholls, Frederick Fennell: A Life of Joyful Discovery.
3
The Eastman Wind Ensemble: Instrumentation
The instrumentation of the Eastman Wind Ensemble was what set it apart from all other
wind band/ensembles. Prior to the formation of the Eastman Wind Ensemble, collegiate wind
band/ensembles followed the “symphony band” instrumentation. These were large ensembles
that had numbers close to the size of a marching band. Here is the instrumentation of the
University of Michigan Symphony Band:
8 to 10 flutes
2 to 4 Oboes (English Horn)
24 Bb clarinets
3 alto clarinets
3 bass clarinets
3 to 4 bassoons
5 to 6 saxophones (alto, tenor, bari)
6 to 8 cornets
2 trumpets
6 to 8 French horns
4 baritones or euphoniums
6 trombones
6 tubas
2 string basses
1 or 2 harps
4 to 6 percussion
Eb clarinet and 2 flugelhorns
are occasionally added
Total: About 100 players 11
In stark contrast to the instrumentation of the University of Michigan Symphony Band is the
instrumentation of the newly formed Eastman Wind Ensemble:
Reeds
2 flutes and piccolo
2 oboes and English horn
2 bassoons and contra-bassoon
1 Eb clarinet
8 Bb clarinets, or A clarinets divided in any manner desired or fewer in number if so
desired
11
Battisti, The Winds of Change, 43.
4
1 alto clarinet
1 bass clarinet
2 alto saxophones
1 tenor saxophone
1 baritone saxophone
Brass
3 cornets in Bb or 5 trumpets in Bb
2 trumpets in Bb
4 horns
3 trombones
2 euphoniums
1 Eb tuba
1 BBb tuba or 2 BBb tubas if so desired
Other Instruments
Percussion, harp, celeste, piano, organ, harpsichord, solo string instruments, and choral
forces as desired. 12
The instrumentation of this new ensemble was supposed to allow for versatility in
programming, and commissioning of new works. With the symphony band the instrumentation
would rarely change. Ensembles would use the same number of players whether they played a
Sousa march or a Wagner transcription. The instrumentation of the Eastman Wind Ensemble
would change for whatever a programmed piece would call for. It could be a Mozart serenade,
which uses the forces of a harmoniemusik, or it could be the larger ensemble called for by a
Holst suite. This versatility was just as intentional in performing music of the past as it was in the
commissioning of new works for wind band/ensembles. As Fennell states, “This instrumentation
is considered in the same sense that composers have always evaluated the tutti orchestra, the full
organ, or the complete keyboard – a sonority resource to be utilized only when desired.” 13
This introduction to the modern wind band/ ensemble was deemed important by the
author in order to create a context for the early years of the band program at CSULB. This
12
Frederick Fennell, "The Instrumentation of the Wind Ensemble," in Time and the
Winds: A Short History of the Use of Wind Instruments in the Orchestra, Band and the Wind
Ensemble (Kenosha, WI: Leblanc Publications, 1954), 52.
13
Ibid. 52-53.
5
defining of the term that will be used to represent the wind groups at CSULB will allow the
author to broaden his talking points, so that major events will not be overlooked based on the
instrumentation of an ensemble. The correlation of the Eastman Wind Ensemble to the early
years of the band program at CSULB is staggering, especially in regard to the impetus of starting
a band. The founding of the Eastman Wind Ensemble had a profound effect on the modern wind
band/ensemble, but the effect it had on the bands at CSULB was almost immediate. Within this
context, we can now better comprehend the extensive history of the band program at CSULB.
6
CHAPTER 2
THE EARLY YEARS OF THE “BEACH” BANDS: 1951-1964
On September 28, 1949, 169 students and thirteen full-time faculty began their first day
of classes at the newly formed Los Angeles-Orange County State College in Long Beach,
California. When the college was formed, it was intended to be a school with an emphasis in
Teacher Education, Business Education, and Liberal Arts. 14 The original campus was an old
apartment building, but by the end of the school year the citizens of Long Beach voted for the
city to buy 320 acres of land that would be used for a new campus. With the dedication of this
new tract of land came the new name Long Beach State College. 15 The university would grow
exponentially in its first decade. Along with that growth came the induction of a band, which
would eventually grow into one of the most comprehensive and thriving band programs in the
United States.
The early years of the band program saw a lot of flux in leadership. Between 1951 and
1964 the bands were under the direction of five different conductors. The author believes that
this is due to a lack of a Director of Bands position. The gentlemen who led the band were not
hired to direct the band, but to teach courses in music education. It was because of their skill in
band directing that they were also offered the directorship of the band. This would be true until
Dr. John E. Green was hired as the first Director of Bands in 1959.
14
California State University Long Beach, "1949-1950 Timeline," CSULB Historical
Site, accessed March 23, 2015, https://web.csulb.edu/alumni/goldengrads/historical/timeline
/1949-1950.html.
15
Ibid.
7
Dr. Bertram McGarrity: 1951-1952
FIGURE 1. Dr. Bertram McGarrity. Photograph from the 1952 Prospector, the university
yearbook.
Dr. Bertram McGarrity came to Long Beach State College(LBSC) in June of 1951
following his time on the faculty at Moorhead State College in Minnesota. Born in Minnesota,
Dr. McGarrity received his bachelor’s degree from the University of Minnesota, master’s degree
from the University of Idaho, and doctorate from the University of Iowa. Dr. McGarrity was a
clarinetist and studied with the famed French-born clarinetist, Georges Grizes, while a student at
the University of Minnesota. 16 It is not clear why Dr. McGarrity began in June of 1951, but the
author surmises that he began teaching during the summer session of 1951. Since the school was
originally opened as a teacher’s college, the author also surmises that Dr. McGarrity was brought
to LBSC to teach courses in music education. Nevertheless he would be the catalyst for the large
instrumental ensembles at LBSC.
In an early issue of The Forty-Niner dated October 9, 1951 an article titled “Music
Groups Seek Recruits” made a call for musicians to perform in the newly formed band and
16
The Forty-Niner (Long Beach, CA), Oct. 26, 1952.
8
orchestra. In an interview for the article Dr. McGarrity states, “These activities are a very real
part of any normal campus life…and the sooner we get started, the sooner we will have a going
organization. There must be many players on this campus outside of the music majors, and we
want to see them.” 17 While this statement functions as an advertisement for these new
ensembles, it also shows how small the music department was in those first days. With the lack
of music majors to fill out the band and the orchestra, Dr. McGarrity went out into the general
student population to find students to join these ensembles. Dr. McGarrity felt the necessity for
these large instrumental ensembles, and he became a visionary for the future growth of the music
department and the band program.
Dr. Robert W. Winslow: 1952-1954
FIGURE 2. Dr. Robert W. Winslow. Photograph taken from the 1954 Prospector, page 32.
Dr. Robert W. Winslow also came to LBSC from Minnesota where he was head of Music
Education at the University of Minnesota. A trumpet player, Dr. Winslow received a B.A. and
M.A. from the Eastman School of Music and an M.Ed. and Ed.D. from Columbia Teachers
17
The Forty-Niner (Long Beach, CA), October 9, 1951.
9
College. Dr. Winslow joined the faculty at LBSC in the summer of 1952. 18 Dr. Winslow
supervised student teachers, taught brass methods, and directed the band. 19 The band functioned
as a service organization for the university, playing for assemblies, pep rallies, and athletic
events. Due to the university’s function as an institution for the education of teachers, Dr.
Winslow also used the band as a lab ensemble for the “…preparation of band directors and music
teachers for public schools.” 20
FIGURE 3. Dr. Robert Winslow and the LBSC Band. The 1953 Prospector.
18
The Forty-Niner (Long Beach, CA), July 16, 1952.
19
The Forty-Niner (Long Beach, CA), March 9, 1954.
20
The Prospector (Long Beach, CA), 1954, 46.
10
FIGURE 4. Dr. Robert Winslow leading the band in a performance at a school assembly.
The 1954 Prospector, page 59.
Dr. Sanford Helm: 1954-1958
FIGURE 5. Dr. Sanford Helm. The 1956 Prospector, page 30.
11
The third conductor of the LBSC Band, Dr. Sanford Helm, came to Long Beach State
College from the University of Michigan where he was an Instructor in Music Literature. 21 Prior
to his appointment at Long Beach State College, Dr. Helm had already established himself as an
authority in wind band repertoire. In the fall of 1951, he was asked by the National Association
of College Wind and Percussion Instrument Instructors to create a catalog of chamber music for
winds. 22 The result was one of the first comprehensive catalogs of chamber wind music. Before
he received the request from the National Association of College Wind and Percussion
Instruments, Dr. Helm had already begun work on a similar catalog in 1945. 23 In the preface for
the earlier catalog, Dr. Helm states, “The need has been recognized, among those who play and
teach wind instruments, for a catalog devoted to chamber music which involves winds…” 24 In
the preface for his new catalog he goes on to say, “That these specialized catalogs materialize
seems to be a signal that wind instrument music in this country is taking its place alongside, not
below, the position so long enjoyed by that for strings.” 25
It is interesting to note that the preface for the 1952 catalog is signed and dated March of
1952 and, as the author mentioned earlier, the first rehearsal of the Eastman Wind Ensemble
occurred in September of that same year. While the wind band medium is indebted to the work
and vision of Frederick Fennell, the evidence shows that there are others who felt strongly of the
21
University of Michigan Catalog of Programs 1949-1950.
22
Sanford M. Helm, "Preface," in Catalog of Chamber Music for Wind Instruments (New
York: Da Capo Press, 1969), vii.
23
Ibid.
24
Ibid.
25
Ibid.
12
repertoire of the wind band. It is clear that Dr. Sanford Helm was also a key figure in
establishing and promoting music for wind instruments.
In the fall of 1954, Dr. Helm brought with him that same spirit and dedication to wind
music to Long Beach State College. The newly appointed conductor of the LBSC band began
efforts to expand the program immediately by making a call for musicians in an article in The
Forty-Niner newspaper entitled “49er Band Clamors for New Musicians.” 26 Starting the year, in
what may have been a desperate act, Dr. Helm ended his first year in a respectable manner. On
May 10, 1955 the Long Beach State College Concert Band, made up of thirty-five musicians,
performed its first formal concert in the Little Theatre. 27 The program for this first concert
consisted of the following pieces:
Fugue No. 4 from The Well Tempered Clavier……………………Johan Sebastian Bach
Suite Francaise……………………………………………………………Darius Milhuad
Pavane…………………………………………………………………...…Maurice Ravel
Colonel Bogey March…………………………………………………….Kenneth Alford
Rhapsodie Norvegienne……………………………………………………..Edouard Lalo
Chicago Tribune March…………………………………………William Paris Chambers
Water Music Suite………………………………………………..Georg Friderich Handel
Porgy and Bess………………………………………………………….George Gershwin
Procession of the Nobles, from Mlada………………………...Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov
FIGURE 6. Program from first formal concert of Long Beach State College Concert Band.
26
"'49er Band Clamors for New Musicians," The Forty-Niner (Long Beach, CA),
September 29, 1954.
27
"Bandmen Melodize in 1st Inside Concert." The Forty-Niner (Long Beach, CA), May
6, 1955.
13
While the choice of repertoire might not be considered progressive, with only three of the
pieces original to the wind band/ensemble, the importance of this performance is not in the
choice of repertoire. The importance is in the type of performance. A formal, indoor concert that
only served the purpose of music performance. As the author mentioned before, prior to this
performance, the band at Long Beach State College functioned as a service organization for the
university as well as a lab ensemble for the music students. This marked the beginning of a long
tradition of wind band/ensemble performances of high aesthetic value at LBSC.
Dr. Helm sought to create other wind groups in order facilitate specific needs of the
university. It was not considered ideal for one ensemble to serve in so many capacities (i.e.,
athletic events, school assemblies, formal concerts, etc.). In February of 1956, in preparation for
a tour of local high schools and community colleges, a dance band was created to perform
alongside the concert band. 28 The instrumentation of this “15 piece unit” 29 is not specified in the
article found by the author, but the author speculates that this ensemble would be a precursor to
the jazz bands at LBSC, as there is no mention of any type of student jazz ensemble prior to the
creation of the dance band.
In order to facilitate the needs of athletic events, Dr. Helm created a pep band to perform
at said events. The pep band had their first performance at a football game against Pepperdine
University in October of 1956 adorned in “Plaid shirts and seven-gallon hats.” 30 By creating the
dance band and the pep band, Dr. Helm allowed each ensemble to focus on their specific
28
“49er Dance Band Stages First Concert,” The Forty-Niner (Long Beach, CA),
February 23, 1956.
29
Ibid.
30
“49er Pep Band Debuts at Game,” The Forty-Niner (Long Beach, CA), October 10,
1956.
14
functions, therefore allowing new levels of excellence. This became especially important for the
concert band, which could now focus on repertoire of a higher aesthetic value. In a school
newspaper article entitled, “Band Planning Winter Concert” the author interviewed Dr. Helm. “A
small group of winds will play a Strauss serenade. Professor Helm states that the modern trend is
to swing back to smaller groups to permit more individuality and character to the wind
ensembles. ‘This is being done by such celebrated bands as the Eastman Symphonic Wind
Ensemble,’ he states.” 31
In his four years as director of LBSC bands it is evident that Dr. Helm had a proper
university band program in mind as he began to expand the program through the creation of new
ensembles and repertoire. His tenure, although short, was productive, and his contributions were
necessary in the progress of the band program at LBSC. It is important to mention that Dr. Helm
had intended to start a marching band in 1955, but was unsuccessful due to a lack of sufficient
numbers. 32 In the final year of his directorship a committee of music students met with “…the
President’s council and members of the Music staff…” in order to discuss the creation of a
marching band. 33 This duty would fall upon his successor.
31
“Band Planning Winter Concert,” The Forty-Niner (Long Beach, CA),December 18,
1956.
32
“Dr. Helm Asks Bigger Band,” The Forty-Niner (Long Beach, CA), October 12, 1955.
33
“School Band Committee Meets Brass,” The Forty-Niner (Long Beach, CA), May 14,
1958
15
Mr. Charles J. Payne: 1958-1959
FIGURE 7. Mr. Charles J. Payne. The 1959 Prospector, page 46.
The fourth conductor of the LBSC bands was Mr. Charles J. Payne. Payne was hired to
fill the position as the university searched for a new director of the LBSC bands. Payne came to
California after receiving a bachelor’s degree from the Cincinnati Conservatory of Music. 34 As a
trombonist and euphonium player, he played with groups such as the Cincinnati Symphony
Orchestra, the Indianapolis Symphony, and the Long Beach Municipal Band.
Mr. Payne joined the Long Beach Municipal Band in 1949 as a euphonium
player. In 1953, he was promoted to assistant conductor, and in 1956 he was appointed the
seventh director of the band. 35 In 1958, with the permission of the city manager and city council,
34
“New Band Debuts Friday: Performs During Intermission of San Diego Game,” The
Forty-Niner (Long Beach, CA), October 1, 1958.
35
Gregory Michael Cunningham, "A History and Socio-Cultural Examination of the
Long Beach Municipal Band" (Ed.D. diss., University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, 2002),
accessed March 23, 2014, ProQuest Dissertations and Theses.
16
Mr. Payne was hired as an interim conductor for the bands. 36 Although he only served in the
position for one year, he made an impact that would last for many years beyond his tenure. On
October 3, 1958, Mr. Payne led the sixty-five member Long Beach State Marching Band in its
first halftime show performance, in a game against San Diego State University. 37 Mr. Payne
conducted his final performance with the band on May 3, 1959.
Dr. John E. Green: 1959-1963 (December)
FIGURE 8. Dr. John E. Green. The 1960 Prospector, page 29.
In an article titled “Trojan Director Joins 49er Band” from The Forty-Niner, the
announcement was made that Dr. John E. Green would become the next Director of Bands at
Long Beach State College. 38 The title of the article refers to Dr. Green’s previous post as the
Director of the Trojan Marching Band at the University of Southern California. Dr. Green was a
36
“Band Concert Schedule in Little Theatre,” The Forty Niner (Long Beach, CA), April
19, 1959.
37
“New Band Debuts Friday: Performs During Intermission of San Diego Game,” The
Forty-Niner (Long Beach, CA), October 1, 1958.
38
“Trojan Director Joins 49er Band,” The Forty-Niner (Long Beach, CA), February 18,
1959.
17
graduate of the University of Illinois. 39 He then taught in the state of Iowa where he was a
member of the Iowa Band Master’s Association, Iowa Music Educator’s Association, and a
manager for state music festivals. When he arrived in California he received his terminal degree
in Education from the University of Southern California.
He had immediately become a leader in Southern California, becoming a member of the
music selection committee for the Southern California School Band and Orchestra Association.
He was very involved in this organization, and eventually became the president from 1961-
1963. 40
Dr. Green was brought to LBSC to be the first Director of Bands. As the band program
had continued to grow, the music department saw the need to hire someone whose main purpose
was to direct the bands. Dr. Green was a key figure in the growth of the bands and the music
department. In an interview with H. Robert Reynolds, Dr. Green was described as a “virtuoso”
when he would gather the new students in front of marching band and “introduced all the new
students…by name, and said where they were from.” 41 He was very personable and this became
incredibly important in the recruitment process. In his first year as Director, he started a “Band
Day” in which local high schools were brought on campus to work with the marching band and
participate in a halftime show. 42 During his time as the Director of the LBSC Bands, Dr. Green
built up the marching band to be the largest marching band in the western United States with 121
39
H. Robert Reynolds, interview by author, Los Angeles, CA, February 2, 2015.
40
Southern California School Band & Orchestra Association, "Past Presidents,"
Guidebook, accessed June 24, 2015, https://guidebook.com/guide/29260/poi/2723508
/?pcat=97772.
41
Reynolds, interview by author
42
“Six Bands Visit Campus,” The Forty-Niner (Long Beach, CA), October 27, 1961.
18
members. 43 The marching band was then divided into three performing groups in the spring
semester: the Symphonic Wind Ensemble, the Concert Band, and the Pep Band. 44 In 1962, an
Assistant Band Director position was created when Dr. Green had also taken on the duties of
Department Chair. H. Robert Reynolds was hired for this position. 45 In 1963, Dr. Green accepted
a position at West Texas State University and left LBSC after the fall semester. 46
43
“’Really Big Band‘ Promises Green,” The Forty-Niner (Long Beach, CA), October 3,
1961.
44
“Band Schedules Musical Events,” The Forty-Niner (Long Beach,CA), December 1,
1961.
45
Reynolds, interview by author.
46
“Band Salutes Green,” The Forty-Niner (Long Beach CA), December 13, 1963.
19
CHAPTER 3
H. ROBERT REYNOLDS 1964 (JANUARY)-1968: BRINGING THE CSCLB BANDS TO
NATIONAL ACCLAIM
FIGURE 9. Professor H. Robert Reynolds. The Prospector.
A graduate of the University of Michigan, H. Robert Reynolds moved to California in
1958 seeking a job in the Long Beach Unified School District(LBUSD). When he arrived he
came to find that the position was only a six-month substitute position, which was not what he
was looking for. 47 At the recommendation of the music supervisor for LBUSD, Reynolds
contacted the music supervisor for Orange County, where he was hired as the Director of Bands
at Anaheim High School. 48 He remained at Anaheim High School for four years. In 1962,
Reynolds applied for the position of Assistant Director of Bands at LBSU and won the
47
48
Ibid.
20
position. 49 He remained in this position for a year and a half, until, at recommendation of the
Chairman of Music, Russel Squire, he was appointed as Interim Director of Bands at LBSU in
the spring semester of 1964. 50
1964-1965
In the Fall of 1964, at the young age of 29, H. Robert Reynolds was appointed as Director
of Bands at CSCLB (the college changed its name in this same year). 51 As one might imagine, he
was under a significant amount of pressure taking over a successful program after a beloved
director. It is also important to note that almost all prior directors of the LBSU bands: Dr.
Bertram McGarrity, Dr. Robert W. Winslow, and Dr. Sanford Helm were still members of the
faculty in the music department in various positions. 52 While all of this may have been
overwhelming for a young college band director, what transpired in the years following was
nothing short of amazing.
In the December of 1964, Reynolds attended his first College Band Directors National
Association (CBDNA) National Conference at Arizona State University in Tempe, Arizona. This
was one of the most important CBDNA National Conferences to ever take place. Gunther
Schuller presented a lecture on his new work for winds, Meditation. Ingolf Dahl led a general
session on his Sinfonietta, and he later guest conducted the work with the University of Southern
California(USC) Trojan Symphonic Band. On that same concert the USC Trojan Symphonic
49
Ibid.
50
Ibid.
51
California State University Long Beach, "1960-1969 Timeline," CSULB Historical
Site, accessed March 23, 2015, https://web.csulb.edu/alumni/goldengrads/historical/timeline
/1960-1969.html.
52
21
Band performed the premiere of first CBNDA commission, Emblems, by Aaron Copland. 53 The
latter would have the largest impact on the young college director, Reynolds said this about the
conference, “…I don’t know that there’s been a CBDNA convention like that since.” 54
1965-1966: The Copland Year
In the Fall of 1965, Henri Temianka, the new conductor of the CSCLB College
Symphony Orchestra, put on a performance in which he was, “…trying to generate public
interest in good music.” 55 Incidentally, the program included Robert Schumann’s Konzertsück,
Op. 86, for Four Horns and Orchestra, which included Professor Reynolds playing one of the
solo horn parts. 56 The significance of this concert was twofold. Henri Temianka was well-
connected, and his commitment to generating interest in “good music”, led to CSCLB to host
Aaron Copland on campus for a Copland Festival. Reynolds’ good relationship with Temianka
also led Temianka to invite Reynolds, and the CSCLB Band, to perform in the Copland Festival
which was to take place on February 22, 1966. 57
As was mentioned earlier, Reynolds had been in attendance for the premiere of Aaron
Copland’s Emblems in 1964. So, naturally, he chose to program Emblems, along with an excerpt
53
College Band Directors National Association (CBDNA) National Conference at
Arizona State University, Tempe, Program, 1964, personal collection of H. Robert Reynolds.
54
55
“Symphony Concert to Offer ‘Good Music’: All Invited,” The Forty-Niner (Long
Beach, CA), November 19, 1965.
56
Ibid.
57
Reynolds, interview with author.
22
from Copland’s Appalachian Spring entitled “Variations on a Shaker Melody.” This would be
only the second performance of Copland’s Emblems. 58
Preceding the performance, was an open rehearsal that took place on February 21,
1966. 59 Due to the large number of people in attendance at the rehearsal, the rehearsal had to be
moved out of the rehearsal hall, and into the outdoor courtyard. When asked about how the
rehearsal went Reynolds said, “He rehearsed it [Emblems] in a very gentlemanly, efficient [way],
[with] high expectations. The group responded very well. He responded well to them. It was all a
positive experience.” 60 The concert took place on February 22, 1966, in the Millikan High
School Auditorium, with Copland in attendance. 61
1966-1967: The Milhaud Year
Following the Copland residency, Henri Temianka planned on bringing a composer of
Copland’s stature to CSCLB every year. In the spring of 1967, Temianka’s longtime friend, and
world-class composer, Darius Milhuad was brought to campus for a residency. In the middle of
the residency Milhaud conducted some of his own music for a benefit concert. Included in the
program was Milhaud’s Suite Francaise for Band, conducted by H. Robert Reynolds. Following
the performance, Milhaud sent a handwritten letter (shown in figure 9 below) to Reynolds in
June of that same year.
58
Ibid.
59
“Aaron Copland to Conduct Concert Here,” The Forty-Niner (Long Beach, CA),
February 15, 1966.
60
Reynolds, interview with author.
61
“Aaron Copland to Conduct Concert Here.”
23
FIGURE 10. Handwritten letter from Darius Milhaud to H. Robert Reynolds, June 23,
1967. Transcription:
Dear Mr. Reynolds,
Here is the statement you asked of me:

“I was charmed to hear one of my works so well performed by so young people in
the California State College Band. Congratulations!”
I write to my publisher Salabert22 [undecipherable] Paris IX to ask if they could
take the Garde Republicaine band version of the Suite Provencale. You could perhaps send
Salabert a work about it.
Very sincerely,
Milhaud
24
1967-1968: First Performances at National Conferences/Final Year
The 1967/68 school year was a very important year for the CSCLB band program, as this
was the first the ensembles had been invited to perform at national conferences/conventions.
1968 CBDNA Western Division Conference
In February of 1968, the CSCLB Symphonic Band was invited to perform at the Western
Division Conference of the CBDNA. This conference was held at Brigham Young University, in
Provo, Utah, and was the first time the ensemble was invited to perform outside of the state. 62
The program for this performance included: Paul Hindemith’s Konzertmusik für Blasorchester,
Op. 41, Percy Grainger’s Lincolnshire Posy, Gustav Holst’s Hammersmith, and Richard
Henrion’s Fehrbelliner Reittermarsch. 63 In attendance at this performance was William D.
Revelli, Director of Bands at the University of Michigan, and Founder and Honorary Life
President of the CBDNA. Revelli also happened to be Reynolds’s former college band director.
He was pleased with the performance, and gloated about the performance to his own band at the
University of Michigan. 64
1968 American Bandmasters Association (ABA) National Convention
In 1968, the ABA National Convention was held in Long Beach, California, and was
hosted by Charles Payne and the Long Beach Municipal Band. As mentioned earlier, Charles
Payne was one of the first directors on the LBSU bands, from 1958-1959. Reynolds and the
CSCLB Symphonic Band were personally invited to perform at the convention by Charles
62
“Band Tours West,” The Forty-Niner (Long Beach, CA), February 27, 1968.
63
College Band Directors National Association album, personal collection of H. Robert
Reynolds.
64
25
Payne. 65 The program for this convention included: William Schuman’s Chester Overture,
Vaclav Nehlybel’s Symphonic Movement, Ernst Stiebertiz’s Unter Dem Gurdestern, and John
Philip Sousa’s Manhattan Beach March. 66
One of the guest conductors for this performance was the Director of Bands at the
University of Wisconsin, Raymond Dvorak. During the convention, Dvorak made it known that
he would be retiring from the University of Wisconsin. At the recommendation of Don Wilcox,
Assistant Director of Bands at CSCLB, Reynolds applied for the position at the University of
Wisconsin. The end of the 1967/68 school year was also the end of H. Robert Reynolds four and
a half-year tenure as the Director of Bands at CSCLB. 67
65
Ibid.
66
American Bandmasters Association album, personal collection H. Robert Reynolds.
67
26
CHAPTER 4
DON WILCOX 1968-1969
The reader may notice that there is a one-year discrepancy between the end of H. Robert
Reynolds tenure, and the beginning of Larry Curtis’s tenure at CSCLB. For the 1968/69 school
year, Don Wilcox, who was the Assistant Director of Bands under H. Robert Reynolds, served aa
the Director of Bands at CSCLB. Although his tenure as Director of Bands was short, Wilcox
continued the success of his predecessor by continuing to grow the program, and bring in
excellent guest artists to work with the students. The marching band had reached 170 members,
the largest the band had ever been. 68 Also, following his positive review of the CSCLB
Symphonic Band at the 1968 CBNDA National Conference, Dr. William D. Revelli accepted an
invitation to conduct the CSCLB Symphonic Band. That performance took place on February
16th, 1969, and the program included: Johan Sebastian Bach’s Toccata and Fugue in D minor,
Percy Aldridge Grainger’s Colonial Song, Norman Dello Joio’s Variants on a Medieval Tune,
Dmitri Shostakovich’s Festive Overture, Op. 96, and John Philip Sousa’s The Pride of the
Wolverines March. 69
The author is unsure why Wilcox left CSCLB, but in an interview with Larry Curtis, who
would become the next Director of Bands at CSCLB, the author was told that Wilcox had
70
“…decided to go elsewhere.” Upon further research, the author was able to find out that
68
“Troy Band Seems Strangely Like LB,” The Forty-Niner (Long Beach, CA), October
4, 1968.
69
“Revelli Guest Conductor: Concert Climaxes Band Performances,” The Forty-Niner
(Long Beach, CA), February 14, 1969.
70
Larry Curtis, interview by author, Los Angeles, CA, March 4, 2015.
27
Wilcox had become the Director of Bands at West Virginia University, beginning in 1971. 71
71
University of Maryland University Archives, "Don Wilcox Collection," Archive UM,
accessed March 23, 2015, https://digital.lib.umd.edu/archivesum/actions.DisplayEADDoc.do?
source=MdU.ead.scpa.0119.xml&style=ead.
28
CHAPTER 5
LARRY CURTIS 1969-1994: BRINGING THE CSULB BAND PROGRAM TO
INTERNATIONAL ACCLAIM
FIGURE 11. Professor Larry Curtis. CSULB Band alumni website.
Larry Curtis began his teaching career in Walsenberg, Colorado and Pueblo, Colorado,
before moving to California in 1965. Curtis was Director of Bands at Pasadena High School in
Pasadena, California from 1965-1969. After Don Wilcox left CSCLB, Curtis interviewed to be
the Director of Bands at CSCLB, and assumed the directorship in the Fall of 1969. 72
Curtis’s tenure as Director of Bands became the longest in the program’s history, and in
his twenty-five years as Director of Bands he continued to build the marching band, brought the
program to international acclaim with performances at two Edinburgh Military Tattoos (1980
and 1987), 2 Japan Band Clinics (1981 and 1991) and tours throughout Switzerland, Austria,
Germany, and Australia. He continued to build the programs reputation in the United States with
72
Curtis, interview by author.
29
performances at five Western Division Conferences of the CBDNA, two National Conferences
(1975 and 1983) of the CBDNA, and one performance at the American Bandmasters Association
Convention in Phoenix, Arizona (1980).
Premiere of Howard Hanson’s Laude: Chorale, Variations, and Metamorphoses
In 1975, the CSULB Wind Symphony made its second appearance at a CBDNA National
Conference, this time in Berkeley, California. Only seven years after their first appearance, the
ensemble played a program of highly significant repertoire including: William Schuman’s Circus
Overture and Ingolf Dahl’s Sinfonietta. What made this particular performance so special was
the premiere of Howard Hanson’s Laude: Chorale, Variations, and Metamorphoses. The piece
was commissioned by CBDNA to be premiered by the All-American Intercollegiate Band, under
the baton of Frederick Fennell. It is unclear why, but CSULB was chosen as the group to
premiere the work instead. This work was Hanson’s second to last piece he wrote for wind
band. 73
CBDNA 1983: Atlanta, Georgia
The Wind Symphony made its third appearance at the CBNDA National Conference in
1983, in Atlanta Georgia. The presenter for this performance was former Director of Bands, H.
Robert Reynolds. The program for this performance included: Anthony Plog’s Textures for
Winds, John Ryther’s Five Miniatures, David Maslanka’s A Child’s Garden of Dreams, and
Erling Mostad’s D.R. III Honnorsmarsj.
73
Richard Miles, ed., Teaching Music Through Performance in Band, vol. 3 (Chicago:
GIA Publications, 1997).
30
Growth of the Marching Band: Age of the “Big Brown Music Machine”
As the reader may notice, the growth of the band program at California State University,
Long Beach (CSULB) 74 directly correlates with growth of the marching band. In an interview
with Curtis, he mentioned that, “…it was a good group, and a good recruiting tool for us.” 75 As
was mentioned earlier, in 1969 the band had grown to 170 members. By 1977, the marching
band had reached 300 members, and made its first, and only, appearance in the Tournament of
Roses Parade. The growth of the marching band also led to more concert ensembles for students
to participate in. During Curtis’ tenure, the band program grew to have three concert ensembles:
The Symphonic Band, Wind Ensemble, and Concert Band. While it would be difficult to keep
most music majors from the top ensembles in the marching band, Curtis said, “…the band [Wind
Ensemble] had a lot of chances to do a lot of wonderful things with the marching band.” 76
Edinburgh Military Tattoo 1980
One of those “wonderful things” was the marching band’s performance at the Edinburgh
Military Tattoo in 1980, in Edinburgh, Scotland. 77 Traditionally an event for military bands and
pageantry, the Big Brown Music Machine was the first non-military ensemble to perform in the
event. The ensemble provided an eclectic program, along with atypical ensembles that were a
representation of American history and culture. The performance was opened by the Americus
Brass Band, a Civil War era replica band, that was founded by music students at CSULB.
74
The school changed its name to California State University, Long Beach (CSULB) in
1972. California State University Long Beach, "Our History," CSULB Historical Site, accessed
March 23, 2015, https://web.csulb.edu/about/history/
75
Ibid.
76
77
Ibid.
31
Incidentally, this ensemble is still in existence today, and is under the leadership of Dr. Richard
Birkemeier, a retired musicology professor from CSULB. 78 Following this, was a tribute to
American jazz, complete with a jazz combo, and the finale of the program was the music from
Star Wars. In a televison broadcast of the performance, the announcer is heard saying over the
performance, “The Edinburgh Military Tattoo will never quite be the same ever again.” 79 The
band returned to perform at the Edinburgh Military Tattoo once more in 1987. 80
Japan Band Clinic 1981 and 1991
The CSULB Wind Symphony, as the top group was called by now, was invited to
perform, twice (1981 and 1991), for the Japan Band Clinic. 81 In his interview with the author,
Curtis talks about the influence these performances had on Japanese wind bands, “…we went
over with this sound like you’ve heard on the recording [referring to the recording he shared with
me from 1991] that’s just blended and so well balanced.” Curtis went on to say that the “father of
Japanese wind bands,” Toshiyo Akiyama, referred to CSULB as “the band who taught us how to
play concert music…” 82 In their 1991 performance, the program included: Dmitri
Shostakovich’s Prelude in E-flat minor, Op. 34, No. 14, Michael Colgrass’s Winds of Nagual,
78
Richard Birkemeier, "The Modern Americus Brass Band," Americus Brass Band,
accessed March 23, 2015, http://www.americusbrassband.org/about-band.
79
"Long Beach State Big Brown Music Machine at the 1980 Edinburgh Tattoo (YouTube
video uploaded by SMBandmaster), January 10, 2016, accessed March 23, 2016, https://www
.youtube.com/watch?v=TvlkFarCit4
80
81
Ibid.
82
Ibid.
32
Percy Aldridge Grainger’s Colonial Song, Blithe Bells, and “The Gumsucker’s March,” Charles
Ives’s “Country Band” March, and John Dankworth’s Decline and Fall of a Bridge. 83
Larry Curtis retired as Director of Bands in 1994. His twenty-five-year tenure was the
longest in program’s history. While there are many great accolades, the international reputation
he built with the CSULB Band Program is probably his greatest achievement. In his retirement,
Curtis currently serves as the conductor of the Long Beach Municipal Band, a position formerly
held by one of the early directors of the “Beach Bands,” Charles J. Payne.
83
1991 recording of performance by CSULB Wind Symphony at Japan Band Clinic,
personal collection of Larry Curtis.
33
CHAPTER 6
JOHN ALAN CARNAHAN 1994-CURRENT: CREATION OF THE “LONG BEACH
SOUND” AND CONTINUED EXCELLENCE
FIGURE 12. Professor John Alan Carnahan.
John Alan Carnahan began his teaching career in Clovis, California at Clovis High
School. After building a nationally acclaimed music program, Carnahan then went on to be the
Assistant Director of Bands at the University of Texas, Arlington. In 1988, Carnahan became
Assistant Director of Bands at California State University, Long Beach(CSULB) where he
directed the marching band, symphonic band, second jazz band, and taught courses in music
education. After Larry Curtis’ retirement, in 1994, Carnahan was appointed Director of Bands at
CSULB, a position he still holds today. 84
During Carnahan’s tenure as Assistant Director of Bands, the CSULB football program
84
John Alan Carnahan, interview by author, Los Angeles, CA, May 14, 2015.
34
was disbanded, and with it the marching band. 85 The author finds this to be important to the
history of the program, as this event would dictate the future focus of the band program. This
moment in the program’s history meant that the concert ensembles (Wind Symphony,
Symphonic Band, and Concert Band) would now become the primary focus of the program.
With this new focus comes the development the “Long Beach Sound,” a term coined by
Carnahan to describe his method of creating wind band sound. Carnahan continued the tradition
of interaction with living composers, commissioning of new works for winds, and a
reintroduction to the national stage through conference performances.
The “Long Beach Sound”
Carnahan’s approach to wind band sound, or creating a defined ensemble sound, is one of
the most important contributions he was able to bring the band program at CSULB. This system
of ensemble sound would later become available to the public in his published method book The
Wind Band Sound: A Definitive Guide to Ensemble Intonation, vol. 1. 86
In an interview with the author, Carnahan explained that he began to develop his system
of ensemble sound while teaching at the University of Texas, Arlington, where he
“experimented” with “harmonic series tuning”. He began to expand on this idea of ensemble
sound when, then Director of Bands, Larry Curtis introduced him to melodic tuning, which he
85
Ann Austria, “Cal State Long Beach’s Alumni Marching Band Relives the Glory Days
of Long Lost Tradition at LBSU,” Daily 49er, February 6, 2008, accessed March 25, 2015,
http://www.daily49er.com/uncategorized/2008/02/07/blast-from-the-past/
86
John Alan Carnahan, The Wind Band Sound: A Definitive Guide to Ensemble
Intonation, vol. 1 (Benica, CA: World-Projects, 2017).
35
says “intrigued [his] thinking to see how that would translate into the entirety of the
ensemble…” 87
The Referential Tuning System, as it’s now called, is a method/procedure to eliminate
intonation problems within the modern wind band. 88 The system is broken down into the
following sections: Tuning the Ensemble, Melodic Tuning, Harmonic/Chordal Tuning, Counter-
Melodic Tuning, and Textural Tuning. While many of these concepts are easy enough to accept,
the most controversial idea that Carnahan presents, is the idea of tuning the ensemble lower than
the desired pitch standard. For example, if the pitch standard of the ensemble is to be A=440,
Carnahan suggests tuning the ensemble to A=438. The idea being that the pitch will rise to the
desired pitch standard, “due to temperature, fatigue, and individuals in the ensemble trying to
hear themselves play.” 89 In an interview with the author, Carnahan shares that this idea initially
came from the former Bass Trombonist of the Los Angeles Philharmonic, and Professor of
Music at CSULB, Jeff Reynolds. Reynolds had shared with Carnahan, that he would tune lower
than the pitch standard in order to eventually warm-up to the desired pitch standard. 90 Tuning
lower than the desired pitch standard is one minor part of the Referential Tuning System. Every
part of the procedure is important to the outcome. This method/procedure of creating a cohesive
wind band sound is what would help bring the program to a new level of national acclaim, and
something that would permeate Carnahan’s tenure.
87
Carnahan, interview by author.
88
Carnahan, The Wind Band Sound, 1.
89
Ibid., 11.
90
Carnahan, interview by author.
36
Dmitri Shostakovich’s Ninetieth Birthday Concert
One of the first major performances that happened during Carnahan’s tenure was on
February 18, 1996. The CSULB Wind Symphony opened a performance for the Shostakovich
Festival held in the Carpenter Performing Arts Center. 91 In attendance at this performance was
the wife of Dmitri Shostakovich, Madame Irina Shostakovich. The Wind Symphony opened the
performance with Donald Hunsberger’s famous transcription of Shostakovich’s Festive
Overture. 92
Walter Hartley Music Festival
In November of 2000, the CSULB Music Department hosted a festival, celebrating the
music of American composer, Walter Hartley. This three-day event (November 7-9), featured
performances of Hartley’s Concerto for 23 Winds and his Sinfonia No. 4, by the CSULB Wind
Symphony, under the baton of Professor Carnahan. 93 Walter Hartley was in attendance at these
performances. 94
CBDNA 2011: Seattle, Washington
In 2010, the CSULB Wind Symphony was once again invited to perform CBDNA
National Conference. The conference was hosted at the University of Washington in Seattle,
Washington. The ensemble was one of 8 college wind bands to be invited to perform at the
91
Daniel Cariaga, "A Celebration of Shostakovich: A Longtime Devotee of the Soviet
Composer Mounts a Wide-Ranging Tribute at Cal State Long Beach," Los Angeles Times,
February 11, 1996, accessed March 23, 2015, http://articles.latimes.com/1996-02-11
/entertainment/ca-34622_1_cal-state-long-beach.
92
Shostakovich Festival Program, personal collection of John Alan Carnahan.
93
Hartley Festival Program, personal collection of John Alan Carnahan.
94
Clipping of Press Telegram article, November 4, 2000, personal collection of John
Alan Carnahan.
37
conference, and this was their fourth appearance at a CBDNA National Conference. The
program for this performance included: John Carnahan’s Centennial Celebration Fanfare, Ryan
George’s Firefly, Paul Fauchet’s Symphonie pour Musique d’Harmonie, Josh Hummel’s Haiku
Symphony No. 4, Joel Puckett’s Avelynn’s Lullaby, and Joseph Turrin’s High Flight. 95
While this was the fourth appearance of the CSULB band program at a national
conference, this particular performance holds a significance beyond the others for two reasons:
1) all of the living composers were in attendance, and 2) this was the world premiere
performance of Joel Puckett’s Avelynn’s Lullaby, which was a commission led by John Carnahan
and the CSULB Wind Symphony. 96
2016 ABA Conference, San Luis Obispo, California
In 2015, the CSULB Wind Symphony was invited to perform at the 2016 American
Bandmasters Association Conference in San Luis Obispo, California. This was the ensemble’s
third appearance at an ABA Conference. It is important to note that in 2013, Professor Carnahan
was inducted into the American Bandmasters Association. Membership into the organization is
by invitation only, and only offered to those with outstanding achievements as a concert band
conductor. 97
The program for this performance included the following works: Steven Bryant’s In This
Broad Earth, Aaron Perrine’s Only Light, John Krance’s arrangement of Carl Orff’s Carmina
Burana, Percy Grainger’s Blithe Bells, Paul Dooley’s Masks and Machines, H. Robert
95College Band Directors National Association, “Program for National Conference,

March 23-26, 2011, Seattle, WA,” accessed March 23, 2015, https://www.cbdna.org/pdf
/NationalConference2011.pdf.
96 Miles, Teaching Music, 9: 484.
97American Bandmasters Association, "A Message from Lowell E. Graham, ABA

President," accessed March 23, 2015, http://www.americanbandmasters.org/.
38
Reynold’s(former Director of Bands, CSULB) transcription of Dmitri Shostakovich’s Prelude in
E-flat minor (conducted by former Director of Bands, Larry Curtis), Johannes Hanssen’s
“Valdres March,” and John Phillip Sousa’s “Washington Post March.”
It is important to note that under Carnahan’s leadership the program has continued its
international profile by traveling to countries such as England and Korea, the author thought that
it was more important to focus on the development of the program after the disbanding of the
marching band, and the transition into the twenty-first century. With new repertoire and trends in
the wind band medium, one can safely argue that Professor Carnahan has been able to ensure the
programs relevance amongst college wind bands, and the wind band world as a whole.
39
CHAPTER 7
,1RETROSPECT AND RECOM0ENDATIONS
In Retrospect
In just over sixty years of existence, the “Beach Bands” have a storied history. That
history is directly tied with the development of college wind bands on the West Coast of the
United States in the middle of the twentieth century. While it is widely known that college band
programs began, and thrived, in the Midwest (i.e., University of Illinois, University of Michigan,
Northwestern, etc.), CSULB’s band program can directly draw its lineage to this “hub” of
college band programs. Nearly all of the early directors are graduates from these same
institutions, and it is no coincidence that the “Beach Bands” followed in these same traditions.
Conversely, while still following in these traditions, the CSULB band program has been a leader,
in regards to excellence and innovation, to all band programs on the West Coast. This remains
true today.
These traits of tradition, excellence and innovation are evident throughout the entire
history of the program. While being lauded for its commitment to performing and
commissioning new works for winds, one can also appreciate how the programming pays
homage to the past. One can draw direct parallels from the current program all the way back to
its early days, and that validates the purpose of the research and this paper. While this paper is
not comprehensive, it brings together decades of information, into one place, so the reader may
gain perspective, and the story of the “Beach Bands” can be put together.
Recommendations
As the author has previously stated, this paper is not comprehensive, but should serve as
the starting point for further research. The author would also hope that this paper will show the
40
Bob Cole Conservatory, and the University, the importance of documentation and archiving
materials. While a great deal of material was found and used to begin this process, there are
periods of time that can be difficult to place without more evidence.
Research Recommendations
It is the author’s recommendation to continue to do research into the following areas: oral
history from students in the program, a comprehensive study of repertoire trends and how they
compare to other university band programs both nationally and internationally, and further
research on the marching band and its effect on the growth of the program.
Recommendations for Preservation and Documentation
In the process of collecting research materials for this project, it has come to the author’s
attention that there was no clear directive to preserve and document the band program in the first
few decades of its existence. Most of the information that was found was from school
newspapers, yearbooks, albums, and interviews with two of the directors. In recent years, this
has changed, and the conservatory does a good job of archiving programs and recordings (an
invaluable resource), the author recommends that the conservatory continue to collect and
preserve any, and all, materials pertaining to the history of the band program at California State
University, Long Beach.
41
APPENDICES
42
APPENDIX A
INTERVIEW WITH H. ROBERT REYNOLDS
43
APPENDIX A
INTERVIEW WITH H. ROBERT REYNOLDS
February 5th, 2015
Jeffrey de Seriere: So I’m here with H. Robert Reynolds, former director of bands at Cal
State Long Beach. It is February 5th, 2015 and the time is 4:02. Welcome Professor Reynolds.
H. Robert Reynolds: Thank you.
Jeffrey de Seriere: So, I’d like to start with how you came to California because you weren’t
originally from California.
H. Robert Reynolds: How I came to California. I got a master’s degree in Horn performance at
Michigan, and I was out, I mean and then I graduated and I was looking to get a job. I didn’t
want to be a horn performer but you couldn’t get conducting degrees at that point. So I didn’t.
So…I don’t know how far you want me to get into this.
William Revelli was maybe one of the two most famous band conductors in the United States at
that point. He was the band director at Michigan, and he could either be the secret of your
success or deny your success. Depends on whether he liked you or not.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Yeah.
H. Robert Reynolds: And I didn’t want to know... I didn’t want to live my life thinking, “I
wonder if I’m successful because of Revelli.” So I just got as far away as I could.
Jeffrey de Seriere: And that was Anaheim, CA?
H. Robert Reynolds: Well…that didn’t quite happen right away. I wrote letters out here and
actually wrote a letter to the supervisor of music at Long Beach, Fred Ohlendorf, and they said
they would hold the job open for me until I came out because I couldn’t get a job without a
personal interview.
Jeffrey de Seriere: And this was for Long Beach the unified school district.
H. Robert Reynolds: School district. For the public schools in the Long Beach school district.
And so I came out. I was married at that time and my wife was pregnant with the daughter that
I’m staying with in Huntington Beach. So we came out and I made the appointment and showed
up for the appointment and they interviewed me and said this is a six-month substitute job until
the regular teacher gets out of the service. I said, “I just can’t accept that.”
Jeffrey de Seriere: Of course.
H. Robert Reynolds: So here I was in California with a pregnant wife and myself and no job
and no prospects.
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Jeffrey de Seriere: Oh no!
H. Robert Reynolds: So I asked him how…what would you do? And they said, “We understand
there are some job openings in Orange County.” I said, “Well who would I contact.” I don’t
know why I remember this name but they said the supervisor of music in Orange County. There
was an Orange County supervisor of music. I don’t know whether there still is or not. Her name
was Irene Scheffley. So I called Irene Scheffley and she said, “Yeah I think there is a job at
Anaheim High School.”
So they had a job for band and orchestra conductor with a sec…but the person had to
have a secondary field of language arts because they needed an English class taught. And I had
been a speech minor at Michigan so that qualified. So I got the job at Anaheim High School.
Jeffrey de Seriere: So it was some how kind of perfect for you?
H. Robert Reynolds: Yeah! At that point—I mean I think there are six or seven high schools in
Anaheim now but Anaheim High School was the only high school in Anaheim.
Jeffrey de Seriere: I see. Yeah, you are right there are about six or seven high schools in that
district now. It’s expanded quite a bit.
H. Robert Reynolds: Yeah.
Jeffrey de Seriere: So how many years were you at Anaheim High School?
H. Robert Reynolds: Four.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Four years.
H. Robert Reynolds: Yep.
Jeffrey de Seriere: And what was the program like when you were there?
H. Robert Reynolds: Well, the person who preceded me did a very nice job and then he was
also the tennis coach and apparently there was tennis accident. He got hit in the head or the eye
or something with a tennis ball and was unable to continue on as the band director. In fact they
named the auditorium the Bill Cook Auditorium because he was a revered person, and he helped
me a lot. But the program had deteriorated some because he wasn’t as active in the last year so.
But it was still ok it was still good.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Great, so after Anaheim you came to…
H. Robert Reynolds: When I left Anaheim to come here they hired somebody they shouldn’t
have hired whose name will be nameless right now and then they called me and said, “this isn’t
working,” because I had recommended somebody, but because he didn’t have a master’s degree
they couldn’t hire him, and that was Don Wilcox.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Oh, okay.
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H. Robert Reynolds: So then Don Wilcox followed me to Anaheim High School and
really…under his guidance the program continued to take off. It did, you know, exceptional
things. But Don and I knew each other because he was a student at Michigan with me.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Okay.
H. Robert Reynolds: He is a few years younger than I was but I knew him and he was out in the
desert, he was out teaching in Boron out in the Mojave Desert.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Oh wow!
H. Robert Reynolds: So then he went to Anaheim High School and then he got a master’s
degree here.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Fantastic, and then he ended up becoming your assistant director here.
H. Robert Reynolds: Right. Not directly because he was at Anaheim High School.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Okay. Well that’s interesting because you’ve now had a relationship with
Don for quite a while since then.
H. Robert Reynolds: Oh I still do.
Jeffrey de Seriere: That’s fantastic. So you came here in 1962 I believe.
H. Robert Reynolds: Right.
Jeffrey de Seriere: So you started as the assistant director.
Jeffrey de Seriere: The director at that time was John Green.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Could you tell me about John Green?
H. Robert Reynolds: Yeah, let me tell you how the sequence from me getting—cause you asked
that question. How’d I get from Anaheim High School here?
Jeffrey de Seriere: That would be great.
H. Robert Reynolds: I was moderately active in SCSBOA. I was on the music selection
committee. So we showed up at a place called Keynote Music which was downtown Los
Angeles on Olive Street. And so I showed up there and the way it worked was—in the music
selection, this is the concert music selection, you and your colleagues in that category would
select the music for the category just below where you were. And I don’t remember. I think we
were “A” or double “A”. I don’t know what the categories were. We were in the highest
category because we had a lot of students in the school.
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So I went into the room with those other guys and the chairman of the committee said,
“We’ve got too many people in here and there aren’t enough people…not enough college
directors so you go with them.” I said, “Well I’ll be choosing music for my own classification.”
He said, “That doesn’t matter. You go ahead.”
So I…John Green, I and couple others were there, and in the course of that conversation
John mentioned that he had just been named chairman of the music department and he was band
director. He was the only band director.
H. Robert Reynolds: So he said they are going to hire an assistant. So I said, “Is it too late to
apply?” And he said, “Well we are going to make a decision like early next week. And we’ve
already called down the candidates. So maybe.” I said, “Well if I can get you my stuff over the
weekend,” and I knew the personnel director at Anaheim High School. So as soon as I got back
from L.A. I contacted him and he got me the stuff—that could be completely illegal now. He
got me the stuff from my personnel file and I took it to John Green’s house.
So then it narrowed down to two of us, because they were looking for either assistant
band director, percussionist or assistant band director, horn and brass.
H. Robert Reynolds: So the other guy was a percussionist, and his name—well let me get to
that in a second. It came down to two of us and I believe I got the job, and I talked to John
Green about this and he said, “It’s not true. It’s not true. You didn’t get the job for that reason.”
The other person’s name was Bob Winslow, and the head of the instrumental music department,
the early band director his name was Bob Winslow. And I thought they didn’t want to Bob
Winslow’s on the same faculty.
Now Bob Winslow then—he was band director at Santa Monica High School.
H. Robert Reynolds: And he played—I was still playing horn then. I played periodically in the
Pasadena Symphony and orchestras around. I could still play. And so I was doing extra stuff
and so my resume was pretty good with that, but Bob Winslow, percussionist he was band
director at Santa Monica High School, and Santa Monica High School’s band was better even
though I thought Anaheim was quite good. Santa Monica was better and he was not subbing in
the Pasadena Symphony he was subbing in the L.A. Philharmonic.
So he had, in a sense, better credentials than I had. So, but anyway I got the job for
whatever reason it was. Whether they didn’t want two Bob Winslow’s or John Green really
wanted me.
Jeffrey de Seriere: So what was the—was there an audition process? Did you have to conduct
the band or did they just look at your credentials?
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H. Robert Reynolds: Well, we had hosted a district—I think it was district, maybe it was
Southern California, I can’t remember now—at Anaheim High School, an SCSBOA band and
Orchestra festival, and John Green was one of the judges. So our band played and he saw how I
organized the festival and so forth, but I don’t remember auditioning for the band. I don’t
remember coming in and conducting. Those were the days when somebody said, “You got the
job,” and that was it.
Jeffrey de Seriere: There wasn’t a deliberation of minds.
H. Robert Reynolds: I’m sure there was a deliberation but I don’t think there was the
protocol—okay you have to turn in this and this and a video and then we’ll ask three people to
come in and audition and use the…enter a bunch of…I didn’t do any of that.
So, but he saw my band play and saw my organizational skills and so on.
Jeffrey de Seriere: So he decided that you were the guy for the job.
Jeffrey de Seriere: You get hired.
Jeffrey de Seriere: And so you were—at that time there were two groups I believe, the
Symphonic Wind Ensemble and the Concert Band
Jeffrey de Seriere: So you conducted the Concert Band.
H. Robert Reynolds: I think they made that band for me. I don’t think there really was.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Oh, I see.
H Robert Reynolds: I’m not positive about this so don’t run with this. I mean there could have
been a concert band but I don’t think so.
H. Robert Reynolds: Or there could have been—I take it back. I think Marvin Marker did that.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Okay, and Marvin Marker worked with the marching band
H. Robert Reynolds: Yes for a while and he also at that point conducted the Long Beach junior
concert band.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Oh!
H. Robert Reynolds: Do you know about that group?
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Jeffrey de Seriere: I do! I’ve been in parades with them.
H. Robert Reynolds: Okay, he was the main guy there.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Okay, great. Now that you are the assistant band director at Cal State
Long Beach—now let’s get back to John Green. Could you tell me a little bit about John Green?
H. Robert Reynolds: John Green was the closest person I know to Abraham Lincoln. He
looked like him he acted like him. He was wise he was intelligent and he taught me how to treat
an assistant band director. And I’ve used his guidance ever since.
Jeffrey de Seriere: And how is that?
H. Robert Reynolds: With respect and as a colleague rather than as a servant. So it was a very
good association. But John Green had, every fall, when the mar—marching band was the first
thing that happened in the fall. And every fall we’d get a whole bunch of people in the rehearsal
room. All the students from sum—and they’d all come through in the summer and he’d met
them all before we got to the rehearsal. And then he got into the rehearsal and he went around
the room and introduced all the new students and said where they, by name, and said where they
were from.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Wow! That’s amazing!
H. Robert Reynolds: It was a virtuoso and he did this every year!
Jeffrey de Seriere: So was he—it seems like that kind of skill would be key in bringing
students to the university.
H. Robert Reynolds: Oh yeah, and John was an important person in SCSBOA. He was a real
leader in this area.
Jeffrey de Seriere: So this is still, well this after 1952, the creation of the Eastman Wind
Ensemble.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Did John Green model the Symphonic Wind Ensemble after the Eastman
Wind Ensemble?
H. Robert Reynolds: We never talked about it in those terms. John was a graduate of the
University of Illinois. And the University of Illinois had the first really great band program
under A. Austin Harding. It was a very traditional school but a very good one, particularly for
band conductors. John was very good. He was a very good department chair
Jeffrey de Seriere: So just a great administrator in general.
H. Robert Reynolds: Absolutely and I saw—he died just a few years ago, not many years ago.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Oh, really.

49
H. Robert Reynolds: Yeah, and I saw him, not frequently, but occasionally. He lived I Texas
near his daughter.
Jeffrey de Seriere: So I have a note that he was here from 1959 to 1963.
H. Robert Reynolds: Yeah
Jeffrey de Seriere: Was about the time that he was here, and where did he end up going after
that?
H. Robert Reynolds: He was…then became chairman of the music department at West Texas
State University. And they hired him…late and he agreed to stay during the first semester and
then leave at mid-year, at semester time. So I was his assistant for a year and a half.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Okay. So you…okay, so this makes sense now. So, I was looking at
some newspaper articles and I saw an article about John Green when he first came to the
University, and the title was Trojan director comes to the 49er band. Now was he at USC?
H. Robert Reynolds: He was marching band director at USC.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Oh, I see. Okay, that would make sense.
H. Robert Reynolds: And I think, again I’m not positive about this, but I think he got his
doctorate at USC.
H. Robert Reynolds: In education.
H. Robert Reynolds: But again I’m not positive about this.
Jeffrey de Seriere: So there is some more research for me. Okay, so the two ensembles, the
Symphonic Wind Ensemble and the Concert Band, what was the student makeup of the
ensembles?
H. Robert Reynolds: Well all the best players were in the wind ensemble of course.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Were they all majors?
H. Robert Reynolds: Oh yeah.
H. Robert Reynolds: I…let me…I don’t know that that’s true, I just assume that that’s true, but
there could have been some non-majors in band.
Jeffrey de Seriere: But it was just top players in the school.
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H. Robert Reynolds: The top players, absolutely.
Jeffrey de Seriere: And in the Concert Band, what was the makeup of the Concert Band
H. Robert Reynolds: It was kind of a hodgepodge. Hardly any music majors and a lot of non-
majors and people who wanted to continue playing who were in the marching band and I mean,
you know, too many flutes, too many saxophones, no double reeds that kind of band.
Jeffrey de Seriere: We actually still have the Concert Band—is still in place and that’s really
what it is, is it’s a group of non-majors and some majors and we have a little bit better
instrumentation than “no double reeds” but it’s still functioning today and it’s a great ensemble
for the students who just want to continue playing and playing which is great.
H. Robert Reynolds: My musical, my real musical outlet though, because John conducted the
Wind Ensemble, was; I formed a brass ensemble.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Oh!
H. Robert Reynolds: Which was a pretty hot ensemble. Played at the national MENC
convention, I mean it was a real going concern
Jeffrey de Seriere: And who made up that brass ensemble?
H. Robert Reynolds: The music majors, the top players in the Wind Ensemble. And I of course
did that with John’s permission. But it really gave me a very musical outlet.
Jeffrey de Seriere: So you could still keep your chops going, or start to build your chops.
H. Robert Reynolds: Still conduct, you know, real music in the most sensitive not just basic
teaching.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Yeah. Okay. So, you became the director half way through 1963.
H. Robert Reynolds: Yeah but it was kind of temporary. I shared an office with a guy by the
name of Russell Squire. Russell Squire was in…religious music. I don’t, I can’t remember what
it was called. But he was a senior citizen here not old necessarily but wise, full professor and so
on. And he and I shared an office. The office space was very limited and there needed to be at
least two people. So I was in the office with him, which was a big benefit because he guided me
a lot in all the right directions. And then after John left the chairmanship he became Chairman.
H. Robert Reynolds: Some of the upper administration in the University, because the band had
developed under John’s leadership a lot, a lot a lot; and so they felt that they should go out and
get a much more experienced person than I was.
Jeffrey de Seriere: So they actually did a search?
H. Robert Reynolds: They didn’t do a search.

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Jeffrey de Seriere: Oh they didn’t.
H. Robert Reynolds: Russell Squire convinced them that I was the person.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Oh, I see. Okay.
H. Robert Reynolds: So without his interceding on my behalf there would have been a search
and my credentials wouldn’t have met, in a sense, you know, the college experience, you know,
being director of your own program, you know because they wanted to be sure that when the
marching band got out there, when the Wind Ensemble got out there, it was going continue to
develop. I don’t know. I was like 30 years old.
Jeffrey de Seriere: But obviously people just saw something in you. They saw dedication and
passion.
H. Robert Reynolds: Russell Squire certainly did!
Jeffrey de Seriere: And helped you along. Well that’s great. So you took over the program.
What kind of goals did you have as a new band director with your own program?
H. Robert Reynolds: I was scared to death. Because the band had achieved a respected and
justifiably respected reputation and I just wanted to make sure that it continued. So we did some
tours and we did the usual marching band things and it was all incremental I, maybe I was just
too young, but I didn’t have the—in ten years we are going to do this thing—I didn’t have that.
It was…we wanted to play really good music, and I wanted to experiment with the music, in a
sense.
There were pieces that I didn’t know that I just titles. And so I rented the music and we
tried it out in the Wind Ensemble and the players were into it also. I mean I said, “I don’t know
whether this music is going be any good or not but let’s see how” they said, “Oh great let’s”, you
know because we were all in this sort of experimental stage together.
So I remember one of the pieces we played was the—we played at a convention one time
was the Konzertmuzik Opus 41 of Paul Hindemith. I had never heard the piece in my life. I just
saw it listed in a catalogue for winds and so I ordered it and we played it and we all thought it
was a pretty cool piece. So we put on a concert.
Jeffrey de Seriere: And now that’s standard repertoire, wind band repertoire.
H. Robert Reynolds: Yeah
Jeffrey de Seriere: Are there any other pieces in that kind of category?
H. Robert Reynolds: Well, you’ve got Copland in here. I mean we did, I think the second
performance of the Copland Emblems. That was scary also. I mean everything for me was
scary; it was sort of like diving into the deep end of a pool hoping you can swim.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Yeah. Well, we’re going to get to Copland in a little bit.
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H. Robert Reynolds: Okay.
Jeffrey de Seriere: But I would still like to keep going with your first year as director. I
noticed this on some of the albums that I have here—by the way there is an album here from
every year that you were here—that the name of the top group changed from Symphonic Wind
Ensemble to Wind Ensemble, and was that just something that happens on the albums or was
that a conscious decision?
H. Robert Reynolds: It might have been a conscious decision but I can’t give you a reason why
they did that.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Because also the second group the Concert Band turned into the
Symphonic Band.
H. Robert Reynolds: That could have been a product of my past because when I was at
Michigan the top group was called the Symphony Band and I guess I wanted to feel, I wanted the
Concert Band particularly to be upgraded. And then an assistant came along and he had that
group and so we tried to make it more than what it had been. And a better title, Symphonic
Band, I mean it’s just a name but it kind of helps to push it forward.
Jeffrey de Seriere: And there is all kinds of debates on what’s the proper name for bands. We
won’t get into that
H. Robert Reynolds: Doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter if you want to know the truth.
Jeffrey de Seriere: I believe you. Also that year you went to your first CBDNA convention.
H. Robert Reynolds: Yeah I did. That was an awesome experience.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Could you tell me a little bit about that?
H. Robert Reynolds: Well I don’t know that there’s been a CBDNA convention like that since.
Jeffrey de Seriere: And why is that?
H. Robert Reynolds: Because the people who where there.
Jeffrey de Seriere: And who was there?
H. Robert Reynolds: Well, Emblems was played by USC and Gunther Schuller was there
conducting Meditation; Ingolf Dahl was there, lectured on Sinfonietta and conducted Sinfonietta
with the USC ensemble. There were bands—University of Utah band was there and there just
people I had heard about all my life were walking the halls. It was like overwhelming, to be
there and to listen to Gunther Schuller talk about this piece and then conduct it. To be in the
same room as Gunther Schuller and then—and Ingolf Dahl; I mean it’s just—I thought “man this
is the way it should be.”
Jeffrey de Seriere: So these were composers, famous composers at the time but they weren’t
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band composers that were all at this convention.
H. Robert Reynolds: I knew the music of all these guys.
Jeffrey de Seriere: So this must have had a huge effect on you as a new college band director.
H. Robert Reynolds: Well it had an effect I think anybody who was there.
Jeffrey de Seriere: But, as I have researched your life and what you’ve done the type of
repertoire you’ve chosen for your ensembles has always been at a very high level and you’re
very selective of with the repertoire you do with ensembles and so I feel like that might have
been a moment, I don’t know but it could have been. That conference could have done quite a
bit for you.
H. Robert Reynolds: Oh yeah that plus a number of things both positive and negative. I mean
you and I both have a responsibility to the students.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Yes.
H. Robert Reynolds: And, we’re going get into the band world now as opposed to the Long
Beach State band world. But there has been and there still continues to be, but in those days
there was even more so an emphasis on playing to the audience, and I kept thinking this is nuts.
We are hired to educate the students in our ensemble. Now if the audience likes it that’s great.
There is a huge audience that’s a bonus, but that’s not why we’re doing this. That’s why the air
force band does it. But that’s not why we do it, because we do it for the educational reason. I
kept thinking of that musical and educational purpose therefore you need to pick the best
possible music. And I’ve done that as long as I can remember.
Jeffrey de Seriere: You have. You have.
H. Robert Reynolds: It doesn’t mean I haven’t conducted marches. I love marches and so forth,
but it needs to be focused on what’s in the best interest of the education of the student and the
ensemble.
Jeffrey de Seriere: That’s great. So, general feelings about your first year; so you’ve done
this conference.
H. Robert Reynolds: I survived.
Jeffrey de Seriere: You survived.
H. Robert Reynolds: And I got the gig. Because I was just interim, because I didn’t know
during that first semester, I just took over and did what John had designed. We went on a little
tour, I don’t even remember where it was but we always did that and we gave a concert or two
and so it survived. But I didn’t know whether I was going get the job the next year or not so that
was a big deal.
Jeffrey de Seriere: You were also really close in age to the students that were in the program.
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How was that? How were your interactions with students; what was that relationship like?
H. Robert Reynolds: It was very good. Unfortunately in the beginning I was very defensive
about that and I didn’t handle it well. I thought the students might be setting me up for
something like that and I got over that fairly quickly, but I made some serious mistakes in the
first weeks I was here.
And I think maybe John Green and Russell Squire helped me, you know, say, “the
students are really nice people and they wouldn’t do that.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Well before we were doing this interview today I did an interview with
Leo Potts. I believe he’s a really good friend of yours.
H. Robert Reynolds: Yeah he is.
Jeffrey de Seriere: And Leo was a student here when you became the director
H. Robert Reynolds: He was. I don’t know whether he told you this story but I’ll tell you this
story. He came up to me one time and said—now this is a student taking to a faculty member.
Now he was probably what, three or four years younger than I was. He said, “You need to take
some conducting lessons.” Can you imagine going up to one of your professors, going up to
John Carnahan and saying, “I think you should take some conducting lessons.”
Jeffrey de Seriere: I’d get one of these, as he would say.
H. Robert Reynolds: But I took it right and said, “well who would I take with?” and he said,
“Well, Zubin Mehta is the music director of the L.A. Philharmonic, take with him.” So I wrote
to Zubin Mehta on Leo Potts’s suggestion. So I wrote to Zubin Mehta and said you know, “I’d
like to take some conducting lessons.” And I got a letter back from the assistant to the assistant
to the assistant, saying he doesn’t give lessons. I said, “Well, I’d like to come to a rehearsal.”
So he gave me permission to go to a rehearsal, then “I’d like to go to another rehearsal.” And
another one and finally they just gave me carte blanche to go to any rehearsal I wanted to go to,
and then I wanted to get a schedule of what they were going to rehearse so I could go with the
scores; and so I actually did take lessons with Zubin Mehta.
Jeffrey de Seriere: You did , without him knowing.
H. Robert Reynolds: Right, and I also observed Eugene Ormandy and others rehearsing the
ensemble. I learned a lot.
H. Robert Reynolds: Yeah, I mean they, one of the things I learned was how well they knew the
score I mean they…they really knew the score. I mean they would put down the score and then
start conducting and it would be a long time and then somebody would ask them a question,
“What about three measures after ‘C’?” and then he would refer to the score to see, but he knew
what the sounds were. And I thought he’s conducting at least one concert every week, I can do
that once a semester on one piece; know a score that well. So I started out with that, in my head
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“I’ve got to this on this concert on this piece” and then it became more pieces and more pieces.
Jeffrey de Seriere: That’s fantastic. What a great story.
H. Robert Reynolds: It was a big lesson. And I learned how the big boys rehearsed.
Jeffrey de Seriere: I’m not quite sure about this, but the music climate in Southern California
at that time. It didn’t seem like there was a lot going on at least in the art music world. There
was the Los Angeles Philharmonic but there weren’t all these regional orchestras all over the
place either.
H. Robert Reynolds: Right. Well there was a thing called the Orange County Symphony, which
I played in. The Former conductor at USC, Dan Lewis was the conductor of that. But that, you
know, that met like 4 rehearsals before a concert or something. You got paid to do it but it
wasn’t a regular…you didn’t earn a living playing in there. It was like the Long Beach
Symphony or something like that.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Very cool. So now we move into your second year.
H. Robert Reynolds: Now you’re assuming that I can differentiate that long ago into.
Jeffrey de Seriere: 1965-1966.
H. Robert Reynolds: You have a lot better opinion of me than is reality.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Well you always tell great stories, and I’ve noticed that from other
interviews you’ve done and so I figure you know the frame work of this, but 1965-1966. This
is…I’ve called this the Copland year.
H. Robert Reynolds: Okay
Jeffrey de Seriere: That was the big performance that went on that year. So tell me about
how that came about, this Copland festival.
H. Robert Reynolds: It came about because the orchestra conductor was a guy by the name of
Henry Temianka. Henry Temianka was also, I’m not sure about this but I think, conductor of the
L.A. Chamber Orchestra, and knew Copland. So he asked Copland to come. He’s the one; on
his shoulders alone, Copland came. And then we put together a concert. Choir did…Tender
Land or I don’t remember exactly, but probably that. The orchestra did something and we did
Emblems. That’s how it came about, Henry Temianka.
Jeffrey de Seriere: And Emblems had just come out the year prior to that.
H. Robert Reynolds: Yeah, we did the second performance.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Wow. And had you planned on doing Emblems and then the Copland
festival came about…
H. Robert Reynolds: No. No. No. No, Copland came and that was the piece. We also did
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Variations on a Shaker Melody on the same concert.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Okay. And that’s the Clare Grundman…is it the Clare Grundman
transcription?
H. Robert Reynolds: I don’t remember what transcription it was. I don’t think so but it could
be.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Okay. So, did you know that you were going to get to rehearse with
Copland for that festival?
H. Robert Reynolds: I mean we knew he was going to be…I mean I assumed what was going to
happen. We rehearsed and then I thought we’d have a dress rehearsal. Usually we would give
the concerts at Milliken High School. That he would be there and we’d play through the piece
and he would say, “well, letter ‘C’” I didn’t know that there was going to be interaction, which
was big, huge bonus, huge.
Jeffrey de Seriere: And what was that interaction like, with Copland?
H. Robert Reynolds: Well, we were going to do rehearsal in the rehearsal hall. Now this was
up on the other campus. But it became clear pretty quickly that the rehearsal hall could not
house the Wind Ensemble plus all the people that wanted to come to see Copland rehearse. So
we moved it outside to the courtyard which would encompass a lot more people and it was a nice
day and so on.
Jeffrey de Seriere: So, was this like the—the rehearsal itself was this event announced and
were people invited to come to that rehearsal?
H. Robert Reynolds: I don’t know, but everybody knew, I mean the school is not that big.
Everybody knew about it. Having Aaron Copland at your school even in the most prestigious
schools is a big deal.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Did local band directors know about this and come?
H. Robert Reynolds: I don’t know. I don’t remember that. I think it was mostly student body
people.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Great, so now tell me about the rehearsal itself. How did…where there
any big moments that happened…did anything go wrong?
H. Robert Reynolds: No. Nothing went wrong. We rehearsed it in a very gentlemanly,

efficient, high expectations. The group responded very well, he responded well to them. It was
all a positive experience.
Jeffrey de Seriere: That’s great. And did he go to the concert?
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H. Robert Reynolds: Yeah. I mean we rehearsed…actually when we got to Milliken High
School and rehearsed it there, then he reacted and that’s when I was rehearsing it…I can’t
remember the exact place. I could probably pick it out if I had a score but I can’t remember it
right now.
It was marked at a specific tempo. And I said, “Well it’s marked at a little faster tempo than I’m
going. And I’m willing to go at this faster tempo.” I wanted him to know that I knew what I was
doing. “But, it feels better to me at this tempo.” I said, “What would you like?” He said, “Well,
if I were conducting it I’d go at the faster tempo but I don’t want you to go at the faster tempo. I
want you to go at the tempo that feels right to you.”
Another big lesson. I remember that one too. I mean it wasn’t…I didn’t stretch it out of
proportion but.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Just to clarify. So this performance was at Milliken High School?
Jeffrey de Seriere: And did all the performances take place at Milliken at that time?
H. Robert Reynolds: Not all of them. Some of them took place at a place called the Little
Theater. The Little Theater is a place on upper campus and it’s not very big and doesn’t hold
very many people and the stage is not very big.
Jeffrey de Seriere: I wonder if that’s the University Theater now? It could be.
H. Robert Reynolds: I don’t know it’s not…it probably seats three hundred or something; stage
is very small.
Jeffrey de Seriere: But the hall at Milliken is actually pretty substantial auditorium.
H. Robert Reynolds: It was a nice place to play, yeah. We had to rent it.
Jeffrey de Seriere: I wonder if Milliken High School even knew that Copland was on there
campus at some point. I’m sure they’d be in awe of that. Okay, so I have here that Charles
Yates was your assistant director that year. Could you tell me a little bit about Charles Yates?
H. Robert Reynolds: Well Charles Yates before he came here had a really wonderful high
school band at Helix High School in…down near San Diego. And Gene Corporon played in that
band. And so, and I don’t know whether it was Gene Corporon who talked to me about that and
had heard that band and was very impressed with his work and so he was the guy I was most
interested in. So he came here and that didn’t work out at all.
Jeffrey de Seriere: What happened?
H. Robert Reynolds: Well, we went to that CBDNA convention, because he drove and I rode
with him and we just drove to Arizona, to Tempe, Arizona. And I can’t remember if it was on
the way back or on the way there he said, “You know I’m not getting the kind of respect that I
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think is necessary to do the best possible job at Long Beach.” This is while he was on the
faculty. And he said, “My suggestion is that we become co-directors of bands.” So that tells you
something about what he was interested in. And of course that didn’t happen and then he left
and went down to San Diego State and there’s stories about him down there too. I just made a
bad decision. I didn’t…I couldn’t see inside him enough…
Jeffrey de Seriere: To feel like he was a good fit for the program.
H. Robert Reynolds: Yep. He was certainly talented and knew what he was doing, and good
conductor, good rehearser, good ears, and lots of good things about what he did. But his
personality was not what an assistant director’s personality needed to be.
Jeffrey de Seriere: I see. So you mentioned Gene Corporon. Now Gene Corporon was.
H. Robert Reynolds: Can we back track a bit?
Jeffrey de Seriere: Yes we can.
H. Robert Reynolds: Because you mentioned about people who had been directors before John
Green.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Yes. Yeah we can talk about that of course.
H. Robert Reynolds: If we are going down the timeline here. Charles Payne was also the
director of the Long Beach Municipal Band. And that was his gig, that was what he did, and he,
and that was a full time—when I came to California, that summer when I didn’t get the Long
Beach school job, I didn’t have any money and they had a job open for principal horn of the
Long Beach Municipal Band.
So I auditioned for it but I didn’t intend to stay. But it was a full time civil service job. That’s
how people earned their living playing French horn or oboe or clarinet in that band.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Wow.
H. Robert Reynolds: They gave two concerts a day year round.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Wow. Wow.
H. Robert Reynolds: One rehearsal a day, I mean, one rehearsal a week on only the difficult
music so all the other stuff you just sight-read. It was—any way that was Charles Payne. And
Robert Winslow I told you was head of Instrumental music at Long Beach State. That was the
other one, and there was one more you mentioned. Bert McGarrity.
H. Robert Reynolds: Yeah, he was really an orchestra conductor.
Jeffrey de Seriere: He was here the really early years of the music department.
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H. Robert Reynolds: He was a very smart guy and a very musical person. He didn’t see eye to
eye with John Green. But that was just a—Bert McGarrity was an A-plus musician, no question
about it.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Great, I’m glad we went back and mentioned those guys.
H. Robert Reynolds: And they were all here when I was here.
Jeffrey de Seriere: They were all still here.
H. Robert Reynolds: Bob Winslow, Bert McGarrity, Sanford Helm, John Green and me. All at
the same time.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Wow. So what was Dr. McGarrity doing if …
H. Robert Reynolds: Conducting the Orchestra and teaching music history.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Okay. Wow. So all the early directors…
H. Robert Reynolds: And then he gave up the orchestra and then Henry Temianka took the
orchestra over and that’s why Copland came.
Jeffrey de Seriere: It’s interesting to see how this all works out, but all the early directors
were all here at one time doing different things. That says something about where the bands
were at that time and who could conduct a band a little bit. So if we could go back to—you’ve
had some students that have been in the program that ended up going on into the wind band
profession. Can you talk about some of those students?
H. Robert Reynolds: Well the two most famous ones are Corporon and McMurray. McMurray
came a little after I first came and so did Corporon. I spotted Corporon—I did a guest-
conducting thing or did something in San Diego and I heard him play, and I liked the way he
played the clarinet. So I spoke with him about coming to Long Beach State, in a sense, whatever
it was recruiting in those days, I recruited him to come.
Interesting side note of Eugene Corporon he was one of the finest mace drum majors ever. In
fact with the marching band, at least once a year we’d have him do a mace demonstration as the
marching did something. I mean he was great at it. He also played bass drum in the marching
band.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Not clarinet.
H. Robert Reynolds: Not clarinet.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Why did he play the bass drum?
H. Robert Reynolds: Because I wanted a good bass drummer and we had two bass drums and
the first two that we had here were Doug Strawn who later became the vice president of Disney
and at one point was the official voice of Donald Duck; and Jeff Reynolds the bass trombone
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player of the L.A. Philharmonic. Both those guys played bass drum, and I remember one time I
was rehearsing the marching band and I said, “Bass drums, lay out on the introduction and come
in after you hear the dominant seventh chord.” And they said, “Okay.” And someone came up
to me after and said, “Do you realize how few bass drummers in the world would understand that
instruction?”
Jeffrey de Seriere: That’s awesome. That’s amazing.
H. Robert Reynolds: So then when Jeff gave that up, because he was a little older, just a year or
two then Gene Corporon did that, did the second bass drum job.
Jeffrey de Seriere: That’s a great story.
H. Robert Reynolds: But they took conducting and so forth. I got so mad at Gene Corporon in
the conducting class. I said, “You are either going to be a dismal failure or a big success.” I was
right.
Jeffrey de Seriere: So this leads me to another question. What courses did you teach here
besides conducting the Wind Ensemble and doing the marching band?
H. Robert Reynolds: Well I taught conducting.
H. Robert Reynolds: Then I also taught a marching band techniques course, I want to say once
a year or once every other year or whatever. Then I also taught a brass techniques for music ed.
majors, and one semester I taught clarinet techniques. I don’t know why because I didn’t know
that much about clarinet. But maybe somebody was on leave or something. Everybody was in
music ed. Jeff Reynolds was a music ed. person.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Okay. Okay I just wanted to see what kind of courses you were required
to teach while being the director of bands. So now let’s go back to Gene Corporon and Allan
McMurray. Did they have aspirations of being wind band conductors when they were your
students?
H. Robert Reynolds: I think Corporon did. I’m not sure about Allan, but clearly he must have.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Because I’m just wondering was there a light bulb moment where they
might have come up to you.
H. Robert Reynolds: I don’t remember that. But they were both very talented when they were
here conducting. It was clear that they were…that they could do it.
Jeffrey de Seriere: That’s great. Was there anybody else in the band at that time—I believe
Mitch Fennel was a student here.
H. Robert Reynolds: No.
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Jeffrey de Seriere: Not during that time?
H. Robert Reynolds: No.
H. Robert Reynolds: He was a student with Corporon at Northern Colorado. That’s that
connection.
H. Robert Reynolds: Other people in the band as I mentioned Jeff Reynolds was in the band.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Leo was in the band.
H. Robert Reynolds: Leo Potts was in the band. Burnette Dillon a name you don’t know but
you’ve heard him play trumpet a lot of times. He was one the calls for all of John Williams’
movies. He played principal trumpet in the Pacific Symphony for a long time. He’s retired now,
but he was the trumpet player when I first came. And then when he graduated Allan McMurray
took over that top spot. Wes Jacobs. Wes Jacobs was the tuba player in the Detroit Symphony,
played tuba. I recruited him.
I judged solo and ensemble festival out in the San Fernando Valley one time and this little kid
came in with this big white plastic sousaphone and I thought, “oh, this is going to be terrible!”
And he could really play it, so I recruited him and I set him up with lessons with Roger Bobo,
who was with the L.A. Philharmonic at that point, and he got him a different horn then he earned
his way through Long Beach State tuning pianos.
Anyway, he then became the string bass player in a jazz trio. He was playing string bass and
Karen and Richard Carpenter played drums and piano and they entered the Hollywood Bowl
Jazz Combo Competition. So that was Wes Jacobs.
There was a guy and I can’t remember his name, darn it! He was like 6’5” and he then became a
big player in Las Vegas in one of the shows. And there was another player here and I don’t
know whatever happened to him Lemoine Taylor who was a big time musician, student at Long
Beach State. But Richard used to play piano anytime we’d need piano.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Richard Carpenter?
H. Robert Reynolds: Yeah.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Wow!
H. Robert Reynolds: Yeah I’ve kept up with him. I don’t see him a lot but I saw him a couple
of years ago we were at the same event together.
Jeffrey de Seriere: And now the performing arts center is named after them.
H. Robert Reynolds: Right. And Karen played occasionally with the band, but she mostly, she
62
was mostly in the choir. But they were all here at the same time.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Was Frank Pooler the choir director at that time?
H. Robert Reynolds: Yes and he was fantastic! And good friend of mine.
Jeffrey de Seriere: That’s great. So, if I were to quote Leo Potts this was “a renaissance time
at Long Beach.” It was—there was all kinds of really talented individuals that had all kinds of
talents.
H. Robert Reynolds: And we knew that! We knew that all these people were really good we
just didn’t know how good they were. It turned out to be—you could see them twenty years
from then being enormously successful. We all knew it was a very magical time.
And as I say I could take out pieces that I’d only heard about and try them out with the band.
The band was fine with it! There was no, there was very little judgment things going on. As
long as you were sincere and you were musical and you did it for the right reasons everybody
just went along right with it.
Jeffrey de Seriere: It just seems like it was just the perfect environment for learning.
H. Robert Reynolds: It was! And I was learning along with them and they knew that and I
didn’t hide it.
Jeffrey de Seriere: That’s great. It’s really great to hear, all of these great stories and what’s
been going on. But let’s see if we can continue now. So 1966-1967. I have an album here
and—so I was looking at this and I noticed that it just says Symphonic Band on it and then also
that Fred Fennell was a guest conductor.
Jeffrey de Seriere: So was there…did the ensembles just get combined for this concert.
H. Robert Reynolds: I don’t remember. I wish that…I’m sorry that I don’t remember.
Jeffrey de Seriere: It’s fine.
H. Robert Reynolds: We probably just needed more players to fill out the sound. This is the
guy who was vice president of Disney. This is the guy…I can’t remember his name clarinet
player…clarinet and saxophone, fantastic musician. This is Jim Rotter. He just retired from
being the saxophone teacher at USC, and he was also the saxophonist for the L.A. Philharmonic
and just retired from that like a year ago. Oh, Dean Plank. Dean Plank plays bass trombone in
the shows on Broadway. Big deal. George Green. George Green made a career out of
managing his son. His son was Brian Green, Brian something Green of 90210. Brian Hamilton
Green. Well, it’s all coming back to me.
Jeffrey de Seriere: What I’d like to ask you about this is that…
63
H. Robert Reynolds: Okay, ask me
Jeffrey de Seriere: No that’s fine you can…I’m glad that I have this stuff that you can look at.
So Fred Fennell guest conducted.
H. Robert Reynolds: A couple times
Jeffrey de Seriere: What was he doing in town? Why was he here?
H. Robert Reynolds: Well, the first time I got connected with Fred Fennell I was—the very first
honor band I ever conducted in my life was the SCSBOA honor band, and I was to do half the
concert and Fred was going to come at the convention and do the other half of the concert but I
was going to prepare the whole concert.
H. Robert Reynolds: So that he could come in for a rehearsal or two and put the finishing
touches on. But I rehearsed…I got the recordings of all…because he conducted pieces that he
had recorded. So I got his recordings and had them anyway and learned all the nuances he did
and all the bass drum booms and all the cymbal, everything, because my goal was he was going
to stand on the podium and say, “Well there is nothing to do. Everything is just the way I want
it.” That’s what I envisioned in my dream head.
And what really happened is he got on the podium and the music just took off. Just went
“zoom!” It was a huge lesson. And he didn’t conduct like anything I’d ever seen. If the music
went up the beat went up. So this was one I’d always thought one was here but he just
conducted the music. And the players followed him and did fantastic things so then later on I
had him come back and conduct at Long Beach.
Jeffrey de Seriere: And was that this year; was that 1966-1967?
H. Robert Reynolds: Yeah, and I think he came back twice once each year, but I don’t know
that we put him on an album. I don’t remember that.
Jeffrey de Seriere: You met Fred Fennell at SCSBOA conference and you were preparing the
group and I’m sure you had a relationship with him for the rest of his life…
H. Robert Reynolds: Forever. For the rest of his life Yep.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Did he have an influence on what you did at Long Beach?
H. Robert Reynolds: Absolutely! Particularly on the conducting and music making. He freed
me up. There is no question about that. I was a much different conductor after he left. Because
I could see what, what was possible. I was kind of obeying the rules before that. I mean, I was a
pretty good musician and I knew how to conduct and I knew the structures and so forth but I was
pretty constrained. But that was huge. Huge!
Jeffrey de Seriere: That’s great. He’s really fantastic. It’s really exciting for me to hear this.
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So now we get to the final year 1967-1968.
H. Robert Reynolds: Okay.
Jeffrey de Seriere: This seems…it seems like you went out with a bang because you had
some major performances this year. CBDNA in Provo, Utah and also the ABA that was in Long
Beach. Let’s talk about that a little bit.
H. Robert Reynolds: Now the ABA in Long Beach was hosted by Charlie Payne, the conductor
of the Long Beach Municipal Band. And I wasn’t in ABA at that point but Charlie asked me,
asked our band to play at it and then we had a lot of guest conductors. Because that is the way
ABA works. I conducted one piece and then Ray Dvorak conducted one piece and, you know
lots of people from all over the country conducted. During the course of that time, Don Wilcox
was the assistant by this time and during the course of that we would pick people up from the
airport and bring them to the rehearsal and so forth. And Don picked up Ray Dvorak, and Ray
Dvorak said, “I’m retiring from the University of Wisconsin.” And those—of course there was
no computer there was no Internet there was no way. I mean, it was word of mouth how you
found out about jobs that was it and so Don said, “You need to apply for this job.” So I applied
for the job at Wisconsin and got it.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Well we don’t want you to leave yet though.
H. Robert Reynolds: Yeah, going to Wisconsin has nothing to do with Long Beach except
leaving.
Jeffrey de Seriere: But that’s where that happened, was at that ABA convention.
H. Robert Reynolds: Yeah, ABA convention. I mean I didn’t get the job there but that’s where
I found out about it and I was encouraged to do that by Ray Dvorak and by Don Wilcox.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Okay, that’s good to know. Now tell me about this CBDNA performance
in Provo, Utah. Now both of these performances did you have to go through an application
process? Did you have to send recordings? How did you get chosen to perform?
H. Robert Reynolds: I don’t remember. Charlie Payne just called me on the phone and said,
“We’d like the Long Beach State band to play at the ABA convention.” I said, “Fine.” It took
about that long. And then he said, “These are the conductors.” I mean I didn’t have any choice
on the conductors. I didn’t say well I’d like Ray Dvorak. They said, “These are the conductors
and you be in touch with them and you come to an agreement with them about what kind of
piece they want to conduct.” So I just asked what they wanted to conduct and we did it.
H. Robert Reynolds: I mean I wanted to please them. And the CBDNA convention—I don’t
remember how that was selected. It wasn’t nearly as formal as it is now. We probably applied,
whether we sent in something, I don’t remember that.
Jeffrey de Seriere: What was the performance like for the group, because I see that you did
65
the Hindemith Konzertmusik.
H. Robert Reynolds: Well Allan McMurray was playing principal trumpet then and he was
sicker than a dog. In fact we did a little tour. We went through Las Vegas and then up and
played in Cedar City—no we didn’t play there we ate lunch there. Played some place up there
before we got to Provo. And then came back and played in Northern Arizona I think. A concert
there on the way back, and we left Don Wilcox in Arizona. In the hospital.
Jeffrey de Seriere: For…what was he doing at the—just left him at the hospital, was he sick?
H. Robert Reynolds: Deadly sick. I mean it was terrible.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Oh jeez.
H. Robert Reynolds: He got through that performance in Provo and did a great job. He did a
great job but then that was it. In fact Revelli who was at that concert in Provo tried to recruit
McMurray to go to Michigan from that concert.
Jeffrey de Seriere: So was this your first interaction with Revelli after you had left Michigan?
H. Robert Reynolds: Yes, and I—he came up to me after the concert and I thought he was very
polite. And he said to me, “That was very orchestral.” And I thought to myself—I still
remember those words! I thought to myself, “You didn’t like it, but you were nice enough not to
say that.” And what I heard was when he got back to Michigan he told the Michigan band, “I just
heard a band that could put you guys to shame. You can’t hold a finger to this band.” You
know, he went on exaggerating completely. But we played pretty well at Provo.
Jeffrey de Seriere: And some really fantastic repertoire as well. Was this the first time you
did Lincolnshire Posy?
H. Robert Reynolds: No I don’t think so.
Jeffrey de Seriere: No, okay. Yeah, I’m just looking at this—Lincolnshire Posy,
Hammersmith. I don’t know the Henrion.
H. Robert Reynolds: Oh that’s a march, just a German
Jeffrey de Seriere: German march?
Jeffrey de Seriere: So now we know that—you explained how you heard the job about
Wisconsin and then from Wisconsin you went and were at Michigan for I think it was around
twenty years or so.
H. Robert Reynolds: Twenty-six.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Twenty-six years, and so where did Long…what purpose did Long Beach
serve for you in the rest of your career?
66
H. Robert Reynolds: Oh I grew up. I grew up at Long Beach. I became a conductor at Long
Beach. I—as I mention I played in the Orange County Symphony. I also played for a while—I
stopped doing that when I came to Long Beach—there was an Anaheim Symphony also. And
then there was a conducting workshop conducted by the conductor of the Pasadena Symphony
Richard Lert who was known really as a conducting pedagogue. A great conducting teacher.
And that was really important moment for me because I entered that and did that and conducted
the orchestra there. It was a life changing event that. Almost as big not quite as big as the
Fennell thing, but close.
Jeffrey de Seriere: But you had…it seems like you had a few big lessons while you were
here. One was with Copland. One was with Fennell and one was with…
H. Robert Reynolds: With the L.A. Philharmonic. But mostly it was a spirit of—well let’s look
at that. What’s keeping us from learning this? Nobody seemed to be embarrassed by not
knowing something. I’m supposed to know something, so I better not let people know that I
don’t know it. That wasn’t in evidence at all. Everybody would just say well, “Have you ever
heard…” “Well no I’ve never heard of this Hindemith piece.” I wasn’t afraid to say that and
people…the students weren’t saying, “What do you mean? You don’t know that and your on
the…” Nobody was saying stuff like that. It was just an environment for interaction and
learning.
Jeffrey de Seriere: And have you ever experienced an environment like that since your time
at Long Beach?
H. Robert Reynolds: Every year.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Every year?
H. Robert Reynolds: I mean that was formative, because I was in the big learning mode at that
point. But I had that at Wisconsin, I had that at Michigan. Michigan is filled with star faculty
everywhere you go and the same thing is true at USC.
Jeffrey de Seriere: And do you feel like that…being around that environment in Long Beach
maybe had an effect on how you tried to influence the environment around you?
H. Robert Reynolds: Oh sure! Absolutely! I mean you try to share with other people what
influenced you. I mean the L.A. Philharmonic thing was huge to me. In fact I’m still going to
L.A. Philharmonic rehearsals because of that. A guy that I know is personnel director of L.A.
Philharmonic so he gets me in any time I want to go.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Oh that’s great.
H. Robert Reynolds: So I’m still…I mean you learn from the people you admire the most.
So…just be around them.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Well…I think that covers most of the stuff I wanted to talk about today.
H. Robert Reynolds: Okay
67
Jeffrey de Seriere: I really appreciate your time.
H. Robert Reynolds: Oh! We’re in good shape.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Thank you very much Professor Reynolds
H. Robert Reynolds: You bet! Good luck on this project!
Jeffrey de Seriere: Thank you.
[End of Audio]
Duration: 60 minutes
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APPENDIX B
INTERVIEW WITH LARRY CURTIS
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APPENDIX B
INTERVIEW WITH LARRY CURTIS
March 4th, 2015
Jeffrey de Seriere: Okay the date is March 4th. It is now 4:00 p.m. I’m here with Professor
Larry Curtis former director of bands at Cal State Long Beach. Welcome Professor Curtis.
Larry Curtis: Thank you. Nice to be here. Nice to have you here.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Thank you for having me. So the first thing I want to start with is how
you came to California because you weren’t originally from California.
Larry Curtis: No I taught for 5 years in Colorado. I started out in Walsenburg, Colorado with a
little town of 5,000. I taught there for one year and then I moved to Pueblo, Colorado for the
second year of a high school, East High School. Nice facilities small band, like 37 piece band.
Five years later—and I had done some work in the summer, going to summer music camps and
helping with percussion. Clarence Sawhill who was at that time the director of Bands at UCLA
Larry Curtis: He had been to those summer camps and he and I…I’d worked with him and his
band, and worked with his percussion section. When the job opened at Pasadena High School he
called me and said, “There is a job here for Band and Orchestra. I think you ought to apply for
it.” So I did. I flew out and interviewed for the job and that was in 1965 and so I taught there for
five years and in the fall of ’69 the job opened at Long Beach State. Bob Reynolds had been
there and Don Wilcox was his assistant.
Larry Curtis: So when Bob left then Don took over and then Don decided to go elsewhere. So
it was open, the job was open so I came down, they asked me to come down and interview. I did
and got the job and they brought me in as an associate professor, which was in those days…it
just didn’t happen because there was a kind of a line drawn in order to get from assistant to
associate you had to get through a lot of hurdles.
Larry Curtis: But they brought me in because they had, then at that point, then I was the third
director in three years and they wanted me to stay.
Larry Curtis: So I was fortunate enough to come in as an associate professor so I made

five…and five years later I was a full professor. So that is how I ended up at Long Beach. I had
sent many students to Long Beach from Pasadena before which was—the Pasadena group back
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in those days was really quite an ensemble too; both band and orchestra and so I was familiar
with the Long Beach situation and the rest of it’s history.
Jeffrey de Seriere: We’ll get to that history. Did you have aspirations of being a college
band director when you started teaching?
Larry Curtis: When I first started teaching. I just…my first year I was—I had a master’s degree
but I was only…I was 20 years old and I didn’t think I had enough experience yet and I was
worried that I would have a band…I just wanted to have a band that people wouldn’t laugh at
when they heard it play.
When I first started at university level—I graduated for undergraduate from East Texas State
University and I’d had all my high school training in Texas. I was a percussionist but in Texas,
in those days, if you were a percussionist you weren’t allowed to play. There weren’t very many
melodic parts so you weren’t allowed to play anything except whatever the conductor said you
should play so I was the lead snare drummer and that was it. And I went to him and I said, “You
know I don’t know enough. I want to go to college and I want to major in music and I’d like to
be a high school band director, and I don’t know the names of modes.” So he said, “No you’re
going to play percussion. You’re the snare drummer. My first chair drummers always play
snare drum.” And that was that.
So I went to East Texas State on a jazz scholarship playing drums. And I had jazz groups in my
background so I knew what I was doing there. When I realized that I didn’t—I went to the first
theory class and they were talking about scales and tetra chords and all this and I had no idea
what they were talking about. So I went to the piano teacher and I started studying private piano.
Just basic but still from the regular piano teacher. I changed my major to clarinet, since I was a
freshman anyway. Went out and bought a clarinet and started to work on it, started taking
private clarinet lessons.
My great grandfather was a violinist so we had this violin in the family so I started taking private
violin lessons too. Because I had so much to learn, I packed all that in…that I could. I didn’t
play anything extremely well except percussion; I was a pretty good drummer. So that got me
through as far as the needs of the department but I needed more than that. So then the director of
bands there was William H. Hill. He was a very talented individual. A good composer for band.
He left East Texas State and went to Adams State College in Colorado and wanted me to come
as his assistant…on a master’s, but it was a master’s with a full assistant job.
Larry Curtis: Because they had a small program, he came in to build that program. So I was
fortunate enough to do that. So I taught percussion and overload clarinet, by that time.
Then…so Pueblo…Walsenburg was the closest school around afterwards and they needed me so
I went there. So that’s the progress and—once I found my way into Pasadena, to answer your
original question, I realized that there was something that I had that I wanted to express music.
High school level just wasn’t good enough. All though it was fine band and a fine orchestra you
have a tendency…if you want to be a great conductor you have to get in front of a great group.
It’s that simple because you’ve got to test your ability to lead and to influence.
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So I was going to go and study. So I had a double fellowship to go to ASU because William Hill
had left the other school and gone there now.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Oh I see.
Larry Curtis: So he offered me a full scholarship to go as the assistant director and to get my
doctorate. That’s when Long Beach State opened up and they called me and said, “Would you
come down and interview?” So I told them, I said, “I’ve already quit at Pasadena. I’ve already
sold my home. I’ve already bought a travel trailer.” I was going to live in, “and I’m going to get
my doctorate at Arizona because I need that doctorate.” And they said, “Well will you come
here if we give you a doctorate equivalency? Well you get the same pay scale as a doctor you
have the same”
Larry Curtis: “…pull in the department if you come and we’ll treat you…you don’t ever have
to go back and get it. So you come and you’ll be a doctorate equivalency.” So I didn’t have any
excuses not too.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Yeah!
Larry Curtis: It was a good program and I said, “Yes. I’ll do that.” So that’s how it all got
started.
Jeffrey de Seriere: I’ve noticed that with…in this area in the 1950’s and 1960’s that a lot of
times that high school band directors or anybody who wanted to be a music teacher didn’t
necessarily have aspirations of being a college director but that, like you were saying, they
wanted to make better music. They might have had some sort of feeling that they had these
skills and wanted to try them out and be able to express more.
Larry Curtis: Yes, and another thing, in the period of time if you were going to move upward
what you had to do was produce fine groups and it didn’t matter a heck of a lot about the
pedigrees because, Bob Reynolds didn’t…still doesn’t have a doctorate and here he’s been at one
of the most prestigious schools in the country.
Larry Curtis: Don Wilcox didn’t either they both came from Anaheim High School. So it
wasn’t unusual at the time for the University to hire someone that just had their master’s who
had produced something.
Larry Curtis: And I think…actually I wish that were still around because there are many people
that go back and get their doctorate because they can’t succeed
Jeffrey de Seriere: Without it.
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Larry Curtis: Without it. So they go back…and the paper work…you know I’ve been on so
many committees and everyone looks great on paper.
Larry Curtis: They all write in such a way that everyone looks great. So now how do you find
the one that can really do it? You see so it’s…it used to be clearer than that.
Larry Curtis: You went to someone who could…who has already proven they were successful,
and it didn’t matter about their doctorate because most of them, if they were successful, they
didn’t quit that job and go back to school. Some of them did, but not all of them.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Great.
Larry Curtis: Different time.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Different time, yeah definitely.
Larry Curtis: You have to have it today.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Yeah. So when you started at Long Beach, what classes did you start
teaching when you first started there?
Larry Curtis: I taught most of the one-unit courses. I taught saxophone, flute, clarinet those
Music Ed classes.
Jeffrey de Seriere: The methods courses.
Larry Curtis: The methods…in fact I put the methods courses in place.
Larry Curtis: Because that’s the way it had been done in Texas. And that was something that I
felt like…they can be done well or they can be done poorly depending on the teacher who’s
teaching them, but when I was going to school in Texas you played an instrument and you had to
do a recital at the end of that semester on that instrument. Not play an entire recital, but you had
to play an actual piece of literature.
Jeffrey de Seriere: And this is for the methods courses?
Larry Curtis: Yes.
Larry Curtis: And it was also if you were in the method courses you’re also required to sign up
for a lab band where you played on that instrument and learned all the method books and all of
this at the same time. It’s a pretty good program.
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Larry Curtis: And so I came out here and I found that the students that I had sent to Long
Beach…or I encouraged to send to Long Beach from Pasadena were getting everything except
that. They’d come…they would graduate and they still wouldn’t know how to teach a bassoon.
They didn’t know how to take…they knew very well how to play their instrument. So I said,
that was one of my other things that “I’ll come if you’ll institute this program.” Because I want
to teach music educators.
Larry Curtis: And so they did. All that went at the same time. So I was teaching all those…I
was burden by all those courses at the time because I was busy. I was the only director and so I
had the marching band, I had the Concert Band and it quickly developed into two bands and I
was it. And then with Bertram passing away I also took over all the conducting. But my first job
was…I had the technique class for marching band and performance band for…wind ensembles
during the year. I taught percussion, flute, saxophone and clarinet and marching band…yeah, I
think that was it.
Jeffrey de Seriere: So you said Don Wilcox had left so who was your…did you have an
assistant director when you first started there?
Larry Curtis: No.
Jeffrey de Seriere: No?
Larry Curtis: No. Well we hired…I’m sorry I did have…I did have, I’m sorry. I had a guy by
the name of David Martin.
Larry Curtis: Okay; now David had been hired by Don. Don love the marching band and so he
wanted an assistant that could work with jazz a little bit and could assist hi with the marching
band and so he hired David Martin from Northern California, came in and had been with Don for
a year and then I came in. Well I really needed…I really wanted a marching band conductor
because I wanted to concentrate on the concert areas.
Larry Curtis: Then the concert group was only the second semester. So I wanted a concert
group that went the year round where it could really produce a performance level. He didn’t
want to do the marching band…and so we parted ways at the end of that year.
Larry Curtis: Then I hired Gordon Norman.
Jeffrey de Seriere: I know that name. Was he at Glendora High School?
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Larry Curtis: Yes, yes.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Oh. Okay.
Larry Curtis: And was a fine musician. He and I were friends because he was at Glen…he was
at…let’s see he was at Glendale I think it was when I was at Pasadena. So we…our bands saw
each other during football season so we became friends and then he moved to Glendora which
we’ve obviously carried that friendship on for many years. So he came down as the associate
director and we hired…we moved a graduate assistant into the assistant directors job so we had
three band directors.
Larry Curtis: And the graduate assistant was full time in that position. That was what he did.
And we hired Marvin Branson who was an exceptional marching band arranger. I still was in
charge of the program; I was still in charge of the marching band. Gordon was in charge of the
marching aspect mostly and Marvin wrote the music. So we moved up the ladder with the
marching band ad in ’77 we marched the rose parade with a 300 piece marching band.
Larry Curtis: Yeah and it was extremely fine. Such a musical organization. We had sixty-four
trombones and out of the band…we marched on the field with two hundred sixty-four and out of
that two hundred sixty-four, one hundred ninety of them were music majors.
Larry Curtis: So the sound was just…and you had to be in the marching band to be in anything
else.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Wow! Well that will boost up your marching band.
Larry Curtis: So it did yeah. It was an extraordinary marching band. We actually put out
recordings of the marching band every year. You know disc…I’ve got written here
on…somewhere on…information but I…I think it’s six of them somewhere it says.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Looks like right there.
Larry Curtis: Yeah, six marching band recordings and we…we played every year, at least one
some times two pro, back then they were televising, half time shows. So I mean, it was a good
group and a good recruiting tool for us.
Larry Curtis: Yeah. So it was good.
Jeffrey de Seriere: So if we could…we’ll move back to the concert groups. How many bands
did you have…concert bands did you have at Long Beach?
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Larry Curtis: We had three.
Larry Curtis: Full groups. In those days we called the top group the Symphonic Band.
Larry Curtis: And we had a concert band and then we had a wind ensemble that met once a
week. They’d play on the same concert as the top group and members were drawn from the top
group but I just wanted to play more wind ensemble. In those days wind ensemble and band
music were, because of Frederic Fennell’s deferential there; they were not the same in the minds
of most people.
Larry Curtis: Music was written for wind ensemble not concert band and so we actually played
that kind of literature between the two at the time. And then once the top group could play in the
band without necessarily having to play in marching band, not required, then we had the Wind
Symphony; Symphonic Band was conducted by the second conductor, Gordon Norman in this
case, and the third by Marvin Branson.
You didn’t have to play…if you were in the top group you didn’t have to play in marching band
but what we did was we gave scholarships to every section leader and the section leaders had to
come out of the wind ensemble.
Larry Curtis: So the performance standard of the marching band was still being led on the field.
We’d spend maybe 40 minutes in sectionals with the best player in Wind Symphony working
with the marching band trumpets, let’s say, whatever. So the quality of the ensemble was still
just amazingly high.
Larry Curtis: But that’s the way we kept that up there without people looking down their nose
at the marching band. Because the top players were playing so most of them did, and the band
had a lot chances to do a lot of wonderful things with the marching band. We toured twice…it’s
all on the sheet here but we toured twice to Scotland; played for the Military Tattoo in
Edinburgh, Scotland, the first non-military marching band to ever do that in the history of that
Tattoo.
Larry Curtis: Which was back to the 1600’s.
Jeffrey de Seriere: You know I…sorry to interrupt you.
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Larry Curtis: No that’s fine.
Jeffrey de Seriere: I…when I started working at Disneyland…Mitch Mocilnikar who is…he

was one of my managers, when I told him that I went to Long Beach the first thing he showed
me was a video of that Edinburgh performance that is on YouTube and I was just blown away!
I’d never seen the marching band perform before and he was telling me all sorts of stories about
how that wasn’t even the whole group.
Larry Curtis: Nope
Jeffrey de Seriere: It was just half the group.
Larry Curtis: That’s right.
Jeffrey de Seriere: I think it was the Americus Brass Band was
Larry Curtis: Yes.
Jeffrey de Seriere: How you guys opened the show.
Larry Curtis: Yes. All those people were members of the band when they started that group
Jeffrey de Seriere: Oh, okay.
Larry Curtis: Yeah, they were pretty heady days. They were, yeah. We went back a second
time to perform then because of that performance the city of Melbourne was celebrating their
300th year anniversary and they paid for the band to go to Australia. But you see their
wintertime, when they were doing the festival, was during our spring and summer. So they
asked if we could do it and I said, “We can’t take the marching band but I’ll tell you what I can
do. We’ll put the” Concert Band…I mean the second group, “the Symphonic Band and the
Wind Symphony together and we’ll come march the tattoo. Providing that we can travel all over
the country and play concerts.”
So the Symphonic Band and its conductor had its tour; I had my tour and we would tour around
as far as we could get and we would come back and play the night tattoo. And we played all
over. I was playing…the band and I were playing at a museum in Melbourne and we’d played a
good concert and it was beautiful hall, and this gentleman came up and said, “We’ve never heard
anything like this in Australia.” Said, “Can you play a concert for us next Friday?” And I said,
“We’re open on Friday. What do you have in mind?” He says, “Well I…I am the supervisor of
instrumental music for this state and if you’ll play a concert for us I’ll bus every kid in the state
to the concert.”
Larry Curtis: And so they did. And some of those guys, on their way back in the outback were
traveling all night and all daylong to get there.
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Larry Curtis: And we played a concert for them. And while we were playing the concert,
during the intermission, the guy came up to me and said, “Could you come with me I’ve got
some people that want to meet you and talk to you.” So I went down below the stage, there was
a room and it was full of all the Australian military band conductors. It was a very smoke filled
room and they had their whiskey out but they were watching the concert on closed circuit TV.
And they wanted to know where I had got this music and they had never heard them; I mean they
had just never heard an American band before.
So I gave them sources for their music and everything and after that I went back to
Australia 22 times. I’ve given conducting seminars all over the country and been asked to go
back and do conducting workshops for their military conductors the bands there.
Larry Curtis: So we had a tremendous influence over Western Aust…well all of Australia on
Music Education in terms of bands. The band…none of the conservatories had bands; and now
they do.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Yeah they do.
Larry Curtis: It’s amazing what really happened because they had great musicians because
their, if you were a conductor at a school somewhere in the Outback and you played Tuba, that’s
what you taught. Because you didn’t know about anything else.
Larry Curtis: Because you didn’t it teach it see. So then once or twice a year those kids were
flown to a spot and for the first time they were at an ensemble. So they knew anything about
band pedagogy, the ensemble working. So they didn’t do anything about balance, or how to tune
in a large ensemble. So it was…I know that in their history they’ve written quite a bit about
Long Beach State coming and showing them how to put a group together and now they’ve got
some great groups over there. So I feel we had something to do with that, as a University.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Of Course. And so now you’ve kind of segued into what.
Larry Curtis: I’m sorry I just keep going.
Jeffrey de Seriere: No, no, it’s fine. This is exactly what I was hoping for. So with each
director that’s been at Long Beach, with Bob Reynolds I talk about crediting him with bringing
the group to national acclaim. I mean prior to that the school was so young at that point, but he
had done an ABA performance and he’d done a CBDNA performance with the ensemble and so
what I see the most, what I’ve learned about you and what you did with the program is you
brought the group to international acclaim. You had brought the group around the world and so
it’s great to hear that tour, or those tours you did to Australia seemed to have an effect. Little Cal
State Long Beach, in Long Beach, California
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Larry Curtis: And Japan. Toshiyo Akayama who was at the time… the godfather of Japanese
concert bands. He gives us a lecture speech and he’s doing it for the ABA in fact, and he says,
“The band who taught us how to play concert music was Long Beach.”
Larry Curtis: Yeah. Because up until that time there is a very strong camaraderie towards
concert bands in Japan, because the first concert band they ever heard were the military bands
after World War II; and the military bands, generally, are smaller groups, they played well but
that’s what they pattern their sound after. But then we went over with this sound like you’ve
heard on the recording that’s just blended and so well balanced, and they had never heard that
before. So I did the same thing in Japan that I’d done in Australia. They kept coming, “We want
to know more. We want…how do you do this?” But he, in his speech says, “We were taught
what a modern concert band is by the University at Cal State Long Beach.”
Larry Curtis: That’s pretty cool.
Jeffrey de Seriere: That is pretty cool. And I mean, the bands in Japan now are just…
Larry Curtis: Awesome. Awesome. We played on our Japan tour…the last time we played at
the Mushoshino Academy of music in 1991 which is there top, top, top ensemble and that’s
where that recording was.
Larry Curtis: And that was sold there. That was a CBS/Sony recording.
Larry Curtis: Yeah, it was only sold for the Japanese market but…yeah.
Jeffrey de Seriere: That’s fantastic. So you…it seems like the goals that you made for the
ensemble kind of started to happen as you went along with the program or did you have these
goals when you started the program?
Larry Curtis: No, I learned with the students. I’ll be honest with you. Just like I did when I
first started teaching. I had a—when I was at Pasadena High School I hired Fredric Fennell to
come out and conduct the band and orchestra for a week. He lived with us. I remember one
night, we would always get together and have a few drinks and talk, and one night we got, not an
argument, into quite a discussion because I said to him that every time I’ve taken a new job I’ve
been…I’ve learned how to move up a level that I would have never learned had I stayed where I
was, just like we were talking about earlier. And he disagreed, “No I’ve been in charge of every
group I’ve been [inaudible]” I said, Frederic your full of [inaudible].” Because I believe that’s
what happens, as I said before if you want to be a fine conductor get in front of fine musicians.
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That’s really where it’s at. And I had no idea we would ever reach these levels but what I found
out is that within reason you can’t ask too much. Because students who want to learn and want
to play well want to have somebody up there asking for more.
Larry Curtis: And pushing them, in the right way but still and so as they would get better I kept
raising the expectations.
Larry Curtis: Because I’d never been in a band that plays as well as Long Beach. So how was I
to know what it could be?
Larry Curtis: You know. I’d never heard a band that played that well. I’d never—I went to a
very small college in Texas and it wasn’t that big a program. I didn’t even know how to run a
big program. So it was all trial and error and learning and listening and having students coming
and feel free to talk to me tell me what they thought, so we did it together.
Jeffrey de Seriere: You know I’m drawing connections now between you and professor
Reynolds and Professor Carnahan. They both said the same thing that when they had started at
Long Beach, they were learning together with the students and Bob talked about the idea that
that created an environment where no one was afraid to make a mistake. It was just the perfect
environment for learning and everybody was okay with sharing and trying different things.
Bob was telling me that he would go through…he would go through a catalogue of wind
repertoire not knowing what it was he would just pick pieces and throw it out in front of the
students and they would read it and say, “this sounds pretty good. Let’s do it” and they would
learn it together and seem like that has to do with part of the success of the program is that the
students didn’t feel like they were necessarily told what to do but they were feeling like they
were part of the process as they moved forward.
Larry Curtis: Well I think that…that’s true. But what happened is that, at Long Beach, is that it
was still an undergraduate program as it is today. And we were…not competing, I never felt like
we were competing for anything. But we were trying to play on a level…like we split a concert
with the University of Michigan on the campus of University of Michigan.
Larry Curtis: We were on a tour of the Midwest. We played there and Indiana and Illinois and
all these places. Well you don’t go in there with an undergraduate program and play when half
the band were doctoral performance people, you know.
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So it was a matter of how can you elevate…to where not only can you succeed but you can
succeed on a level…direct comparisons with others? And that takes a tremendous amount of
self-pride by everyone of those student. It wasn’t a relaxed learning environment as much as it
was an intense learning environment from everybody.
So I don’t want you to think that it’s just…I think the program now is more relaxed, but I think
the program has proven itself and back then we didn’t know where that was gonna go. We
didn’t even know if it was gonna go. But probably the most terrifying concerts we ever played
was at CBDNA National in Atlanta, Georgia.
Jeffrey de Seriere: In what year was that?
Larry Curtis: That was…
Jeffrey de Seriere: Looks like 1985
Larry Curtis: Yes, 1985. And we also toured the East Coast, including Epcot Center and a few
more places for fun.
Larry Curtis: But we went there to play a concert of all the heavyweights. All of them were
there. It was a big, big concert. And I remember we played the concert and…they really
played—we did the A Child’s Garden of Dreams by Maslanka. We did some original
compositions from one of our students at that time…John Ryther was his name and he’s been
writing for Disney ever since and really, really top notch stuff. Leo Potts played saxophone
concerto on five instruments and it was really, really a very heady concert. And the next
morning they had selected us to do all the reading of all the new compositions from all the
composers for the ABA award. And we hadn’t had enough time because we were rehearsing all
this concert music to tour. We couldn’t play that heady a concert on tour so we had all this stuff.
So I called like a 6:30 morning rehearsal because we had at about 11:00am play for this session
of all these pieces, about five pieces. So…we were rehearsing and Revelli, do you know that
name?
Jeffrey de Seriere: William Revelli, Yes.
Larry Curtis: Ok. He walks in the room! He got up at 6:00 in the morning to come down to
our rehearsal and he walks in and he says, “I just really enjoyed your performance.” Now
that…he doesn’t…he never did that.
Jeffrey de Seriere: No
Larry Curtis: To anybody. He says, “Do you mind if I could talk to the band for a minute?”
And I said, “Yes sir, Dr. Revelli. Absolutely the podium is yours. He talked for about 45
minutes on what he liked about the band, what he thought bands should be playing, the history of
bands and how important they were as musicians to lead the band force in the years to come and
all this kind of thing and the kids are just, you know, their undergraduate they don’t…you know,
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but I mean I thought that was quite a compliment but it did take away almost half of our
rehearsal time. But they still played the session okay.
But I mean that was really a spooky thing because we were expected to do so much, out of these
undergraduate kids. You know what I mean it was a…and that was at a time when high school
bands were not…there was a whole—when I left there the high school band, because of Prop 13,
had just gone down the hill. And we were really struggling to maintain the same kind of level.
Then we had a chairman come in that wasn’t sold on performance, he was more sold on history
and theory and so the performance schedule…performance budget was just cut to shreds. I
decided to leave. I just didn’t want to stay around and watch it go down.
Larry Curtis: I just couldn’t do that. So I took the municipal band and I’ve been happy ever
since.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Yeah that’s not a bad life after that.
Larry Curtis: Yeah no. That’s not bad. So at any rate that’s…that’s a little—side tracked you
again.
Jeffrey de Seriere: That’s okay.
Larry Curtis: But the Atlanta performance was certainly a highlight as far as I was concerned.
Jeffrey de Seriere: So you’ve got this list of major events. Would you mind talking through
each one of them?
Larry Curtis: Okay. In ’75 Gordon Norman was still the associate director at Long Beach State
but he’d also opened up a travel business, so in the summer he would take high school groups all
over Europe. So he had a lot of connections, and we had [inaudible] for several years. So he
managed to get us invitations to play all over Switzerland, Germany and Austria, so I think the
students had to come up with like…I think it was $900.00 or $800.00, something like that. And
then everything else was paid for.
Larry Curtis: Including meals, everything once we got there. So the whole band said, “Yeah
let’s do that.” So that was in 1975 and it was our first connection to the international music
thing. And kids love to travel and they really, really enjoyed…and it was cheap it was very
cheap so it worked out just fine.
In ’77, Gordon again had been on the Rose Parade committee because he was bringing in high
school bands to the Rose Parade. So he suggested to them and they would never allow…they
would not allow a marching band to…a university marching band to play…to be in the Rose
Parade other than the two schools that were playing in the Rose Bowl, and the Pasadena City
College who always started the Parade traditionally.
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But they heard our recordings and they saw…we marched three 100 piece balanced marching
bands connected behind each other. So it was 1, 2, 3, and…I’ve got videos of that but still…and
they did some of that same marching band stuff that you’ve heard…heard about. So
anyway…so that Scotland thing you’ve already heard about. 28 performances, all paid for by the
Scottish government.
Larry Curtis: Yeah, and I said, “Okay. We’ll go but we’ve got to see some of the country.
We’re gonna play every night of the Tattoo. And so they booked us tours…we never played
anywhere…well we played for a few things but it was all marching band. But we played for an
event here an event there. And then we went down to London and played for an NFL game that
the Rams were playing for at the same time, so we went down and did the half time show for
that. We rehearsed that during the time we were at the Tattoo.
American Bandmasters Association—I was in…elected in the ABA I think my fourth or

fifth year at Long Beach, but we’d never played a conference and it was Phoenix, so we went
there and we played as a guest band. And because of that there were five or six Japanese band
directors there including Toshiyo Akiyama that I’d mentioned before. So then in ’81 was our
first tour to Japan.
Larry Curtis: Because they booked us there and they paid for everything except airline. And
we were there for like, gosh I guess it was almost three weeks…playing concerts.
Larry Curtis: Yeah. It was really remarkable.
Jeffrey de Seriere: So at the ABA convention in Phoenix, what repertoire did you guys
perform at that?
Larry Curtis: Well and ABA conference is not like a CBDNA one. What happens is that you
have guest conductors play…conduct the band on everything except the opening number and the
last number.
Larry Curtis: So…we opened with Profanation.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Of Bernstein.
Larry Curtis: Yes. And that was…had just come out. That particular setting. So that was our
opening and I allowed the associate director to conduct something at the end. It was mostly like
a…an easy…not easy because he was…but I mean it was an ending number, you what kind of
stuff, so it wasn’t a biggie. Then all the others were guest conductors.
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Jeffrey de Seriere: Okay. Who were some of the guest conductors?
Larry Curtis: Toshiyo was there. We had…oh boy…we had…Bob…Bob was not a member—I
don’t remember if Bob’s a member of ABA now or not.
Jeffrey de Seriere: I’m not sure either.
Larry Curtis: Because he kind of didn’t like the idea of being in that particular, because he felt
like it was an old band directors club. You know, but he’s probably an honorary member, who
knows. Bob can write his own ticket anywhere, you know, and he’s such a great guy. Every
time he comes out we have dinner together.
Larry Curtis: Over here in Seal Beach in a little restaurant.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Yeah, I think you guys…the day that I did the interview with him, a month
ago was the same night that you guys went to [inaudible]
Larry Curtis: Was that right? Yeah, we always do that because, I mean there’s a close
connection and we’ve stayed in touch over the years. We were the first band to ever get an
invitation or split a concert at the University of Michigan.
Larry Curtis: And we always wanted to get the two bands together, marching bands together on
the field at the same time. We…because…it would have been something else.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Yeah
Larry Curtis: And finally the 49ers played Michigan at an opening game, but it was so early in
the year we hadn’t even started here; school yet so we didn’t have a band to even send.
Larry Curtis: And we didn’t have the money either to go. And they beat us 49 to nothing.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Well that’s a magical number.
Larry Curtis: Yeah. He sent a photo to me. That was before cell phones so I got this photo in
the mail of the score. But anyway, I digress again. So I can’t remember all the guest conductors,
it was just some of the old guys, and Dvorak from…
Jeffrey de Seriere: Wisconsin.
Larry Curtis: Wisconsin and Paynter may have conducted us; I’m not sure. But at the time I
was just thrilled to get a chance to even take the band to it, you know.
Jeffrey de Seriere: So that…
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Larry Curtis: So anyway that led to the Japan tour.
Larry Curtis: And then the Atlanta tour we already talked about. The Atlanta tour was kind of
fun because what we did is that I saw…I saw a…an advertisement for…Eastern Airlines, who
had one flight that came from somewhere in the East Coast out to L.A., and they were
advertising that you could go on Eastern Airlines and once you…I think it was Eastern. I’m
pretty sure that’s what it was, but you flew in to their main hub and then you could go anywhere
you wanted to, for two weeks that they flew to.
Larry Curtis: As long as you kept going back to the hub on the way. Okay. So I called them. I
says, “Are there any restrictions on this?” “No.” I said, “Well, okay. I want…I want 75
tickets.” She says, “What?” I said, “I want 75 tickets.” “Uh…let me check.” “And there’s no
restrictions?” “Yes sir you can get 75 tickets.” And they were cheap. It was like…it was a
promotion thing so it was something like $600.00 for [inaudible] ticket.
And so then I called everyone in the Eastern service on the East Coast and then called the
universities in that area and said, “We’re flying in, if you’ll furnish the transportation and put us
up over night we’ll play a free concert on your campus; you can charge for it and make
[inaudible].
Well we had a good reputation; we’d already been playing for the…all this other stuff
Jeffrey de Seriere: Yeah of course, of course.
Larry Curtis: And so we had a lot of schools pick up on it. So we’d fly in, they would pick us
up and the kids had to take care of their own lunch. They were put up over night. Fed breakfast
the next morning. The next day lunch was on the plane. We’d fly out the next day. And we
had…the whole plane was booked. It was just us the entire plane and so from the…and the
restrictions were a lot less then. So the best section of the night got to sit in first class.
So whatever section…and they could drink they could do anything they want to because
it was…only one drink each but by the time they flew to the next town it was all dissipated so.
Yeah it was a great tour! We played all over the place back there.
Jeffrey de Seriere: How many places did you play?
Larry Curtis: We played about 6 places and then traveled some because some of those towns
were further away from the airport and so we might stay a second day in those. We went to
Epcot Center. We went to New York and had a recording made in Long Island at Century
Records and I mean it was just a heady tour.
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Larry Curtis: Stayed in New York City one night. It was just…it was just unbelievable. And
then they…they never offered that again. I kept waiting.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Yeah. I’m sure.
Larry Curtis: I kept waiting for someone to do it again. I never saw it again. I think we cost
them money. But…but we…the band was so cool because they would get on the plane, very
quiet. And of course we had all these instruments and the graduate assistant was in charge of
that all, and they would let him on the tarmac. To be sure that it was loaded right. We literally
had the whole plane. There was no one else on board.
Larry Curtis: But us and so the band would get on board and they’d sit there and when the lady
would get up and start this thing, they would all recite it in unison with their hands. Spooked her
out completely you know.
Jeffrey de Seriere: That’s pretty funny.
Larry Curtis: Yeah we really had fun with them we really did. But anyways, that was a great
tour. Ah…let’s see where are we. Atlanta…he got that one. Marching band Scotland, you
know about that. And then the—this one was interesting. We had several composers, including
David Raksin; well a lot of the composers would…we were trying to do more film music here.
They would come to our rehearsals and some of them would write music for us. We got an
award one year that over the past ten years we had played…premiered more new works than any
other band in the country.
Larry Curtis: It was just pretty darn…
Jeffrey de Seriere: That’s pretty substantial.
Larry Curtis: Yes. So there were…the society for the preservation of film music was doing a
conference in Hollywood so they asked if we could and play some of their music that these guys
had written for band because they were trying…they’re writing for movies but they really are
fine composers and didn’t know that the band medium was there. We would play what they
wrote, where the orchestras might or might not.
So we went and we did The Hunt for Red October, we did the music for that. That was the film
music re-orchestrated for us by one of the guys. And then we had this—up in Santa Fe Springs
here there is this 160 voice male chorus called the Ambassador’s Music I think. They sing for
these barbershop quartet conferences…competitions.
Well they learned all that Russian from the movie and we had a 160 male voices singing the
Russian stuff behind us…
Jeffrey de Seriere: Oh man.
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Larry Curtis: As we played that—just “coo’s” up and down as we played that you know. And
then we…I went to the Russian teacher on campus and asked him, just so I can ask him how do I
explain this to the choir. I said, “Can you tell me what this says?” And he says, “Oh these are
just nonsense syllables. They’re not Russian at all.” “Okay!”
Jeffrey de Seriere: Well.
Larry Curtis: Solved that problem.
Larry Curtis: So anyway that was really fun performance and that was at…it was at the—where
was that performance Laura?
Laura: Where? What?
Larry Curtis: The preservation?
Laura: It was at the…
Larry Curtis: Universal?
Laura: It was Sheraton Hotel. Their entire top floor is a ballroom that has windows on all four
sides.
Larry Curtis: All four sides, yeah.
Laura: Yeah.
Larry Curtis: And there is a stairway going up in the middle of it. So we started The Hunt for
Red October and then this 160 voice choir dressed to the…
Laura: In white tuxedoes.
Larry Curtis: In all white tuxedoes, come up through this…
Laura: Very dramatic.
Larry Curtis: And split behind the band. Very dramatic and everybody is just going “Whoa!”
It was cool.
Laura: Your dogs are at the door.
Larry Curtis: Oh let them…oh yeah you can let them in. Now they’re very, very friendly
unfortunately. But they are friendly so you don’t have to worry about anything. They’re
miniature Schnauzers.
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Larry Curtis: Easy. Easy…easy I said. Yeah. Okay, down! Down! Go see…hey! He will
settle down in a minute.
Larry Curtis: Go see Laura. Hey! Okay go outside. No! You’ve seen enough! Go! Go, go,
go, go! All right…one of them is very quiet and the other is crazy…that’s the one. Second tour
of Japan was just a carbon copy of the first one except we made the recording.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Now for the Japan Bandmasters Association, were these…had American
groups been invited to these conferences before?
Larry Curtis: Yes. There had been I think we were the second band to go.
Larry Curtis: Augie! Please leave.
Laura: Augie! Augie come on.
Larry Curtis: Keep them up there.
Laura: Yeah I’ll try.
Larry Curtis: Okay. Yeah I think we were the second band. And I’m not sure who was the
first…I think…as I think through I believe it was something like the University of Illinois. But
I’m not sure of that. I can’t remember.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Was that…who was that? Was Hindsley still at Illinois at that time? It
might have been Harry Begian.
Larry Curtis: It was Harry, yes.
Larry Curtis: Yeah, yeah. Hindsley was a good friend of…well Clarence Sawhill was…he took
over the University of Illinois, which was a wonderful program, after Harden…Harding died.
And World War II, Clarence didn’t go into the war because he was…had some sort of a physical,
medical condition. But he conducted that band for about six years while
Laura: Augie! Augie!
Larry Curtis: Hey!
Laura: Come on. I know what we’ll do. We’ll go for a walk.
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Larry Curtis: While Hindsley when in the service and then when he came back out, Clarence
had done a wonderful job with the Illinois band and just worshiped Harden and everything was
exactly the way it had always been. But there was a rule there that if you came back from the
military you got your old job back.
Larry Curtis: And that’s the way it was, so Clarence left there and came out here to ‘SC. And
he was the band director at USC. He’s the guy that designed those uniforms, the first time they
were used. And then they begin to move away from bands, more for orchestra and didn’t
really…so he moved to UCLA.
Larry Curtis: And then he was at UCLA until he retired. So there’s a lineage kind of before
there.
Larry Curtis: From Illinois.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Band was…
Larry Curtis: Fact at one time I thought, okay, if I ever did get in to college teaching I would…I
was…on a direct lineage, because William Hill had started under Clarence [inaudible]. I
thought that should open up sometime at about the right time in my career, you know. And then
I went to Illinois for CBDNA National and…what a dreadful place. The university is sitting on
this flat land, just… and it was cold, and there was snow on the ground, and there was…wind
was blowing and I thought, “Why would anyone leave California…to do this?”
Larry Curtis: Yeah. So anyway, that’s…okay, so I gave up on that and decided to stay here
where I could have a boat. And then these were additional things; performed for five different
CBDNA Western Division Conference. I was the President of the Western Division for some
years. These albums that we talked about…marching band…and then…this is the one I was
talking about with Indiana and Arkansas and Michigan. So that’s all…that’s all. The only thing
I would say is that Long Beach was an absolute perfect place to grow. And to experiment with
no limits, because ignorance doesn’t give you any limits.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Yeah. Yeah.
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Larry Curtis: You know, just to start and see what it is all about and…I feel very fortunate to
have had the opportunity to be there, and I was offered a couple of positions along the way to go
back to the Midwest, because this band was really so good, but I wouldn’t even think of it, you
know. So I never thought of it as being a prestige kind of a think, in fact I’ve never been much
of a politician. I don’t normally “toot my own horn”. I don’t see any reason to do that because
it’s a very personal thing between myself and the music that I…I love. And I don’t see any, any
room for politics.
Larry Curtis: You know, it’s an art form that I love and…I guess that’s it.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Well…since you started talking about your connection with music and…it
was very evident when
[End of Audio]
Duration: 53 minutes 29 seconds
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APPENDIX C
INTERVIEW WITH JOHN ALAN CARNAHAN
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APPENDIX C
INTERVIEW WITH JOHN ALAN CARNAHAN
May 14th, 2015
Jeffrey de Seriere: Okay, so I’m here with Professor John Carnahan, director of bands at Cal
State Long Beach. The date is May 14th, 2015 and the time is 11:22 and we are in his office.
Welcome Professor Carnahan.
John Carnahan: Thanks.
Jeffrey de Seriere: So, today we are going to be talking about your time as Director of Bands
at Cal State Long Beach, so why don’t we get started with how you came to Cal State Long
Beach.
John Carnahan: How I came to Cal State Long Beach. Well I came from the University of
Texas at Arlington and my first position was marching band director, second jazz band
conductor, symphonic band conductor, music education, basketball band, that’s about it.
Jeffrey de Seriere: At UT Arlington?
John Carnahan: No, here.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Oh here, okay and so when you got hired
John Carnahan: I knew that was going to happen.
Interruption
Jeffrey de Seriere: Okay, so when you were hired here could you repeat the courses that you
were hired to teach or ensembles you were hired to conduct?
John Carnahan: Yeah. Marching band, jazz band II, basketball band, symphonic band
which was the second band at that time, music education, a lot of music education courses.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Okay, and what year was that?
John Carnahan: I’m terrible at this. It must have been 1988.
John Carnahan: We’d have to look it up. I’m terrible with dates. I would say the fall of
’88, pretty sure, yeah, I’m almost positive of that.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Okay, and so what was your biggest duty? What was your primary duty
when you got here? What took up most of your time?
John Carnahan: Marching band.

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Jeffrey de Seriere: Marching band, and how big was the band at that point?
John Carnahan: It was tiny because it had just gone through a transformation of a few
terrible years so when I got it maybe there was 50 people in it, maybe. Most of which were
percussionists. We didn’t have any percussion gear. It was a mess. It was a disaster. There was
no percussion gear at all. There was no organization at all. No one knew anything that was going
on. It was awful. It was a mess, and I don’t know how else to say it.
Jeffrey de Seriere: And how long after that did the marching band last because I know the
marching band ended?
John Carnahan: Let’s see. I did it maybe; again, this is weird dates that I’d have to really
look up to be accurate about it. Let’s see, probably I think two years. That was it. And then the
third year would have been just a “in the stands” pep band and then that year was the year after
that was when they cut football completely. There wasn’t a year with no band. We just sat in the
stands. Yeah, I’m pretty sure that’s the way it worked. So three years basically the last year was
being a pep band in the stands.
Jeffrey de Seriere: And when you got hired at Long Beach what were you looking forward to
the most with working here, coming from Texas?
John Carnahan: Oh, what was I looking forward to the most? That’s a good question. I
guess just the complete job and doing jazz again. I really wanted to do jazz again. That was a big
part of my assignment so that was cool, and the reputation of Long Beach was really good for
band, so I was looking forward to a new experience.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Okay, so how long after you started here in, you were saying ’88, when
did you take over as Director of Bands?
John Carnahan: I really should have looked this stuff up. We could look up later to make
sure it’s accurate. It must, let’s see, ‘88 – ’89, ’89 – ’90, ’90 – ’91. It must have been ’91 – ’92
that Larry went on a leave of absence or one year off. He just took a year off and then I did it that
year and then right at the very end of that year he decided to retire so then my first official, I
guess, would have been ’92 – ’93 as assigned director of bands. I think that’s accurate. I would
have to look and see but I’m pretty sure that’s what it is.
Jeffrey de Seriere: And did they do a national search for that position or were they just
prepared for you to take over?
John Carnahan: No, they were thinking about it and then the decision was made to just let
me do it. I guess after a one year test that everything went fine, or at least they thought it was
fine, they just decided to do that which may have been as much money as anything because, let’s
see, was I on tenure track? Yeah, I was on tenure track then and because when I first came here I
wasn’t tenure track, I was just lecturer, year-to-year and then they did do, now it’s coming back
to me, they did do a search the second or third year that I was here, a national search for my
position that I had to apply for again and I got it. Kind of lucky I suppose as all jobs are. Then,
yeah, so I was on a tenure track whenever that happened. I was full-time tenure track position. I
didn’t have tenure yet though. Anyway, so I did it that one year and they just gave me the
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position and then they didn’t fill my position, so like I said it was kind of as much money maybe
as anything. That’s whenever Leo started doing this, the second band because he was already
here and part-time so they just moved him in to that position. I think he did it right away, the first
year that I started. There was nobody else in the meantime, yeah, he did it whole time, pretty
much, I was here.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Okay, since you started at Long Beach there’s been sort of a system of
playing in ensembles that you kind of formed. I guess I should ask. Did you ever have ideas
about the Long Beach sound, the system that you kind of made famous here before you came to
Long Beach?
John Carnahan: Not really. Not specifically. No. At Arlington I guess, the only thing at
Arlington that I realized once was the whole harmonic series tuning the just tuning thing that was
that long ago, and hardly anyone was doing it, but I experimented in that at that point, but not the
whole listening system. Then Larry kind of had a sequence that he did, but it was all he did was
kind of mobile, all he did what put someone in charge of melody, but other than that it was
nothing beyond that which, you know, worked. As you know, it works great. So that was what he
used and I supposed that intrigued my thinking to see how that would translate into the entirety
of the ensemble, and I just experimented kind of “by the seat of my pants”, and it worked. And
then as it kept working I just refined it more so that any question that ever came up I had an
answer to, or if I didn’t I knew the system was not accurate or not usable completely but nothing.
You know, now, there nothing really that anyone can ask that I can’t answer.
Jeffrey de Seriere: So probably the most conflicting part of the “Long Beach Sound” that
people always talk about, and kind of raise an eyebrow to, is tuning to A438. How did you come
upon that?
John Carnahan: I didn’t. It was Jeff Reynolds who was the bass trombonist for the LA Phil
for so many years. He was the one that kind of intrigued me to do it that way. He kind of
explained it, not as, not from an ensemble standpoint but just from a soloist standpoint that he
said whenever he played in the orchestra he would tune just a little bit low because he knew that
it was gonna come right up the pitch so and if you ever watched him perform, whenever he tuned
to the piano, people would kind of make a little face like, he’s not in tune, he’s low, but you
know as soon as he started playing it was fine, and it was trombone, so he could get away with it
anyway, it doesn’t matter. But that’s who it came from. So, a lot of people disagree with that and
they can if they want. All I do is...the proof is in how it works. If it didn’t work why would I
keep fighting, I wouldn’t fight it, that’s crazy and it works good in wind band just because of the
spiraling octave and all this kind of that I mean there’s a lot of physics about why it works. Other
people disagree about physics but all they have to do is read it you know it’s all there and there’s
some people who think you tune from the middle out but then that doesn’t work either because
what do you do when you first start playing, you listen down so then it’s messed up already.
Professionals you know they tune to 440. Their ears are good enough that they just do it and
they’re good at it. We’re just not that good at it. There were a couple years though that I did tune
at 440, just because people were sufficient and efficient enough to maintain that pitch center.
That was one year that I was able to do that and that was kind of in the second semester of it, so I
didn’t play with it anymore. I just let it go and it’s not that big of a deal. People think it’s huge.
But if I tune to, if I told them it was 440 and I told them to tune to 438, everyone one would be
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“oh, see now that’s better, that’s where we should be”, I go “okay it’s 438”, I would never say it.
Jeffrey de Seriere: They would never know the difference.
John Carnahan: They wouldn’t know the difference.
Jeffrey de Seriere: And then other parts of the “Long Beach Sound”, the tuning system with
tuning chords, harmonic tuning with just intonation, you kind of mentioned that also the listening
system of melodic tuning and who to listen down to for balance. but you also talk about style and
how style is influenced by the languages that those pieces come from. Can you speak about that a
little bit?
John Carnahan: Yeah it’s just that every composer hears music in their language. They
may not, but that’s kind of an exception to the rule, or if they’re trying to emulate another style
like a German who’s trying to write Spanish music they’ll still write it that way but it almost
sounds funny somehow because it’s not their original language. So, yeah, it’s all about the
beginning…how plosive the beginning of their consonants are, how round it is and how accented
or aggressive it is, and the speech pattern about how the rise and fall of speech patterns define
phrases. Well, which I haven’t talked about it too much, but that’s the next step of all of this.
How German sentence structure effects phrase structure in music, and how the rise and fall of it
is either more or less. Like French is very level, you know, there’s not much of a rise and fall in a
sentence structure. It’s pretty flat, so when you play it like that it sounds very French. Except for
military purposes that's the only thing that I've found that's different now, is military, because it's
more march-like even though it's still their language in terms of consonant it's not quite as much
in terms of phrase and so on.
Jeffrey de Seriere: And you are referring to French military music?
John Carnahan: Well, any of them.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Any military music?
John Carnahan: Yeah, because French military music is a little more aggressive than just
the regular approach to music, so that's what's different and it has to do with the instruments that
they were playing on. There's a variety of factors that influence that but basically what we do is
try to play the language in which the music was written. That's as simple as I can put it, and so
we study that and see exactly what the consequence is.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Great, so now let me talk about the Long Beach sound. I kind of want to
get into the development of the ensembles here while you were director, and where they started,
where they ended up, and what goals you had. So, why don't we start with where the ensemble
started here when you started.
John Carnahan: Well when I was here it was a double wind ensemble. When I first came.
Larry had a big group so it just about if you double what we have now, not exclusively, but
close. There weren't four tubas; there were two tubas, two euphoniums. There were six
trombones, there were 10 trumpets, I think. It was a double, pretty much a double wind
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ensemble.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Was it called the Wind Symphony at that time?
John Carnahan: Yeah, it was, and I don't know if it was before that, or not. Did you find
that?
Jeffrey de Seriere: No it wasn't. Prior to that the ensemble was either called the Symphonic
Wind Ensemble or Wind Ensemble. That name is pretty interchangeable for the top group.
John Carnahan: I guess Larry must have changed it then. It must have been his name to
give. Anyway, yeah, so it was a large group. Now whenever he was here, the music department
was on a huge decline. It was really bad. There were students still playing in the band who had
played in it for 10 or 12 years but they weren’t students. They just played. They would come in
and play.
John Carnahan: It was a mess. It was so horrible. There was essentially hardly even a
second band, and we just had to scrape it together. A couple of clarinets, it was really not good,
but part of that problem was because he took everybody. If they were good he took them so that's
why it was a bigger band. So there weren't that many people left over to do the Symphonic Band,
and to compound the problem there just weren't that many students here at that point. There may
be 250 or 300 music majors. It was really not happening, and it was discouraging him because
then the quality was getting lower. That's probably part of the reason why he retired a little
bit early but that's what I inherited so I immediately switched it. Let's see, did I do it? I'd have to
go back and look. That's an interesting question. I wonder if I did it the year he took off or
whether I kept it the same size. I don't know. That's a good question. I wonder if I just went out
on a limb and changed it or whether I maintained it thinking he was coming back. I’ll have to go
back and look at our program. That's interesting. I want to know that as well but if it wasn't then,
then it was certainly the year after that. It was almost by necessity more than design because we
just didn't have enough people, so I turned it into a wind ensemble. I'm not sure he liked that
idea, but he was gone, and it didn't matter. But, there was never, that was the first, I guess that
was the first wind ensemble here. Unless they did it back whenever you were telling me, way
back.
Jeffrey de Seriere: They did. They did do a wind ensemble. The first one was under
Sanford Helm but it would get switched when John Green took over. It was the whole…the
format was marching band in the fall, marching band turned into concert band in the spring,
John Carnahan: That's the way a lot of people did it. So, I guess we weren't the first ones
though. But we were the first one in a long time since the band, the real band program was
established I suppose. So that's what it was from then on. That's the way we did it and that's the
way I did the setup that we have today, exactly the way it was then, I believe, for whatever
reason.
Jeffrey de Seriere: And you are referring to like the seating placement in the ensemble?
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John Carnahan: Yeah, where people sit. Yeah, with the tubas are a little unconventional on
the other side then way out on the end where people can't hear them. So, it was all, and that this
was kind of whenever everything was coming to more clarity about how to listen and all that. So,
I was setting up with that system intact, that system in mind. Now it actually wasn't too
different then the way Larry had set it up, honestly, because he had the tubas on that side and the
trombones and the trumpets I think, let's see, yeah, he did it the same way except he always used
risers no matter where he went. We had to haul them around. We'd have to set up a whole recital
hall with risers and not the new light ones. They were the old clunky things. Man, it was a pain.
The percussion were up on risers. The tall level, then it was trombones, trumpets on a riser, then
horns on a riser, then on the floor were all the woodwinds so it was a ton of risers and a pain in
the butt. And all the percussion was up on it. It was like the 36 inch risers probably. There were
about 8 or 10 of them that we had to shuck in there and they stayed in the band room to set up so
there were risers in the band room all the time. We had to move them from the band room to the
performance area. Yeah, what a pain. But, then I did that. I did risers as well and finally I found
out that that was not conducive to a very good sound. It always sounded better if it was flat. Not
sure why. It was just a natural tendency of the way things worked. The brass was not so
dominant. They could actually play out a little bit with a better sound and not have to be buried.
Anyway, there were a variety of reasons. All sonic, all physics again.
I really didn't change anything. He had the oboes in the second row. I do remember that. It was
all flutes in the first row because he had so many of them and then clarinets were in three rows.
Anyway, there was some changes, but they were essentially in the same spot. Not moved.
Euphoniums I moved over to where they are now. He had them on the end of the trumpets all the
way on the far-right hand side. It worked. It was fine but that was the change and I’ve never
really changed since then. I've kept the same set up forever and so Dr. Arnold uses it as well. I
guess he thinks it’s okay. I can't think of a better way to do it. Except Bob Reynolds showed me
a better way to do it. I actually had the first oboes on the end. It went first, second English horn,
first flute, flutes, first clarinets, second clarinets, piccolo and he actually said why do you do it
that way and I said well so first oboe has better access to the audience, it's a solo instrument he
said well if you want it to be better in tune sit the first oboe right beside the first flute so I
switched it so that was one change that he actually suggested as a former director. I don't know if
he ever did it that way but he thought that was a good idea for us, and then that put the English
horn on the end ,which was cool because it's even softer so he solved a little problem there. I
don't remember how many years. That wasn't that long ago. That was maybe only three or four
years ago that he was here, and he made that suggestion. He would always comment about how
in tune the band played. It would always amaze him like “wow, you guys really play in tune.” He
would always say that every time he ever stood in front of the group.
Jeffrey de Seriere: That's a big compliment coming from him.
John Carnahan: Yeah, coming from him, yeah, no kidding.
Jeffrey de Seriere: So let's talk about repertoire that you did with the band. When you first
started, what kind of repertoire would you do with the ensemble?
John Carnahan: Well the first year, thinking that I may not get a shot to do all of it again, I
really pulled out the stops and did everything I could just to, you know to play repertoire, so I did
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Music for Prague, I did Sinfonietta Dahl. Geez, I don't know even what else. I'd have to go back
and look but I picked some pretty meaty things, probably more than we should have played but I
just did them because I could and if Larry came back I may never get to do it again, you know? I
didn't know what was going to happen. So that's kind of why I picked it at the beginning and
then after he didn't come back, you know, then I had to select music that was more appropriate
for what they could do so I'd have to go back and look at back all the repertoire, but you could
kind of see a progression as the group got better which progressed forward in repertoire for sure.
It was pretty meager for a few years. It was not good.
Jeffrey de Seriere: If you were to give a grade level, what kind of a grade level would the
ensemble have played at?
John Carnahan: We were four and fives. We couldn't do a six even though I did
“Prague”, and all those that one year but I wouldn't say that they were that good probably, I don't
know. Apparently, it was good enough that they appreciated what I was doing with the group and
hired me to do it so I'd have to go back and listen, I don't know, I wouldn't give it too much
credit but maybe it was okay. And then it just progressed from there you know. I kept pushing
though, you know, even back then when we weren't really that efficient I would still go do
CMEA, or do whatever, just to get them out because that put the pressure on me as well as them.
And we didn't play great literature, but we went out and did it. You know, we did the College
band directors thing and you could just, I'm sure people, if they looked, they could just see it
progress and it couldn't progress unless we had better students. So, then we started getting better
students. Then, I took over as Chair, and changed a bunch of things that made it more conducive
to recruit students, and more lucrative for the students to come here because they saw the
potential of the department so then that reached a peak maybe, I don't know what it would be
whenever we were really. It wouldn't have been Seattle. Seattle was good but there was a better
band than that about two or three years before that was whenever we kind of reached a technical
peak of really good performance. Not that that wasn't a really great group. But, it was, you
know, in my vision maybe it was better. I don't know. But in my mind, I like that one group we
had. It was just so technically proficient. They were amazing.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Well, since you mentioned that group, that's the group you recorded a CD
with, correct?
John Carnahan: Yeah. We had a bunch of music and a CD. I don't know if we ever made
one or not, that's part of the problem. I just never got to it but, no, that was the CD, that's right,
yeah, so I'd have to go back and listen. I don't know how good it is.
Jeffrey de Seriere: I think I can recall the rep that was on that CD because that was the CD
that was handed to me when I got accepted to the school and I was an undergraduate. I think it
was Joe Turrin's Hemispheres.
John Carnahan: Yeah, that's not an easy piece.
Jeffrey de Seriere: That's not. John Mackey's Redline Tango…
John Carnahan: Oh yeah.
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Jeffrey de Seriere: and his Sarsaparilla.
John Carnahan: Oh yeah, I forgot about that piece.
Jeffrey de Seriere: And then there was the Suite of Danish Folk Songs and then there was also
a Fanfare that was on there.
John Carnahan: I think it was the Torino Fanfare. Yeah, it was a pretty good CD. It was all
live.
Jeffrey de Seriere: But that's the band you were referring to?
John Carnahan: Yeah, I thought that was maybe one of the highest level, at least in terms
of technical proficiency. I don't know if the sound would compare. The sound has been always,
what would the word be? It's just been improved I guess, or more ingrained as being really the
way we do it, rather than even kind of a struggle to do it. It's just that’s it. People get it. So I
think maybe the best sound we had was probably the year after we went to CBDNA in Seattle.
Although we didn't really do anything that year that I can remember. Maybe we did. But the
actual sound of that group was really good, and for the next couple of years after that the actual
sound was good.
Jeffrey de Seriere: I think the 2000 because we went to CBDNA in 2011. 2012 was Carnegie
Hall, and the California All-State Conference, so is that the band you are referring to?
John Carnahan: That was a good band, sounding wise. It was good all the way around,
maybe not as technically proficient but I didn't pick anything that mattered but that was a good
sounding group, yeah, that was a good concert in Fresno. I remember. That was really a nice
sound and then the year after that too. What was that year, 11?
Jeffrey de Seriere: 2012 was the Carnegie Hall performance.
John Carnahan: Oh yeah, then 13, what did we do, anything? Do you have a list? I don't
know if we did anything.
Jeffrey de Seriere: I don't think we did.
John Carnahan: No I think we took a year off but that group sounded really great. Too bad.
I think I remember thinking, “man, too bad people don't actually hear this one”, it was pretty
cool and then in the end, kind of this group sounded good at times. It was good in Korea. It was a
really nice sound there for sure. But anyway, through this discussion you can see that every year
is kind of different. Different band had its own personality, and its own sound and its own ups
and downs…you know it's an interesting gig. I wouldn't say I ever had a really bad band ever,
which I guess is a testament to something, but there was never, and I don't ever remember, a bad
band here ever. Even the lean years we would just beat them up enough to make it happen. Larry
would do that to you in a different way. I can never remember a bad band.
Jeffrey de Seriere: I would think that that's a testament to a tradition that had been put into
place here.
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John Carnahan: I would agree. Yeah, it's just the way it is.
Jeffrey de Seriere: So going back to repertoire. You mentioned the repertoire that you did
when you first started here, and as a student that was in the wind symphony, I noticed that we
played a lot of more contemporary literature when I first started here. which would have been
2008. So, between the time that you started at the school and as the director of bands, and to kind
of current times, how did contemporary wind band literature kind of play into the repertoire you
chose?
John Carnahan: It played in if I thought it was a good addition to wind performance. Now,
that wasn't 100% the case, because I would play things just to play them for a different reason,
but it would be a different reason. Whenever I was selecting a new literature, it had to have some
redeeming factor, artfully so, or something you know. So, there was a lot of new music being
written. It's interesting back whenever we were doing a lot of new stuff there was a lot of good
new stuff. Now I don't see that quite as much because even in that world it goes through highs
and lows of new literature that’s good or not good and it kind of hit a peak there for a while in a
certain style of writing and then that style kind of didn't develop any further or get any better. It
just kind of stayed the same, or probably got worse in many respects. It's just been a lull lately of
new stuff. You have to really dig to find something new. There's people trying too many new
“things” that aren't really that musically redeeming and so, yeah, I haven't done much lately.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Yeah, well the great thing has been that the ensemble has got to play a lot
of standard repertoire pieces.
John Carnahan: Yeah, I went back to that, for sure, yeah. We saw some new things in here
and there. There were a couple of new ones that I thought were good that we did in the last few
years and, if you noticed, the composers were very appreciative of that. Most of them showed up
actually, oddly, somehow. So, you know, I played the ones that I think are good and like right
now I'm just kind of digging around. I don’t know. There’s nothing…or they’re so incredibly
time consuming, and difficult, that its hardly worth the effort to do it. That's the other balance
that's happening now. That the pieces have gotten to a difficulty level that just kills you, you
know. I like to get a piece of music played to what it is. Not just get through it, and a lot of those
we would barely get through it, and say we made it, you know, okay, good. There's no musically
satisfying effect to it at all so that's the other thing that's happened. People have started writing
really difficult things. It will come back, because people can't play them. They won't play them.
They'll get two or three performances. I don't know how good that is. They will find a balance on
how to do that or if it’s something really difficult that has musical depth then it’s worth going for
it. Otherwise it’s just like a display of technical proficiency. which we are not that good at right
now, so, it doesn't matter. We wouldn't win.
Jeffrey de Seriere: And since we are talking about repertoire and kind of what your opinions
are about wind band literature and modern wind band literature, I want to kind of transition in to
you being a composer for a wind band. When did you write your first piece?
John Carnahan: I don't know what the year it would have been. Like I said, I'm terrible
with years. We'd have to look it up and put the year in. Well it was Antelope Play. That was the
first one I ever wrote. Well let's see, the first piece I ever wrote, now that I think about it was a
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percussion ensemble piece. I forgot about this. It was years ago whenever I was teaching junior,
well in Clovis I was teaching junior, elementary and high school and the junior high band or the
intermediate school band was invited to play CMEA. I forgot all about this piece and so why he
allowed me to do this I don’t know but I wrote a percussion ensemble piece to be played as part
of their CMEA performance. I can’t even remember the name of it now. So now that I think
about it, I guess that was the first performance I ever had of my music. It was percussion
ensemble though. I’d forgotten all about that. But the first wind band piece was …and the
Antelope Play. That was the first one I ever wrote.
Jeffrey de Seriere: And that was a commission?
John Carnahan: Yeah, kind of half of one. I got paid for it, so I guess, yeah, it was
commission. I did it cheap because I knew it was either “make it or break it.” I waited so long to
think that maybe I could do it but I thought it was time just to take a shot at it, but I knew, I had
started some other pieces and just thought about it, but there was no deadline or any pressure to
finish it. So, I thought well if I can talk to somebody, some fool in to hiring me to write a piece
that at least I’d have a deadline so that’s what happened. It was the Antelope Valley Honor Band
commission. So, they said sure, we’ll pay you to do it. Okay, it was not much, but at least it was
something and it gave me a deadline where I had to have it done. So, that’s how the first piece
came about. So, I figure I did all the research and went out there you know and since they’re
Antelope Valley and they're an honor band I would make it relative to their area so to speak.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Were you conducting that honor band?
John Carnahan: No. Tony Mazzaferro did it. In fact, they asked me who I wanted to do it
and I picked him as a matter of fact. So, they hired him to do the band so he and I worked
together. Tony is great, so it was fun. So, they did it and I didn’t, after they played it I only
changed a couple of things. I rescored the very beginning, and a couple of other notes went up
instead of down. That was it. So, it stayed pretty much intact whenever I entered it for the
competition thing.
Jeffrey de Seriere: And the competition you are referring to is the CBDNA?
John Carnahan: Young band. In other words, pieces for young band like grade 3. It was
supposed to be a grade 3 piece. I didn’t care, I didn’t even do it. Dr. deAlbuquerque talked me in
to it. For whatever reason, she loved the piece. She said “You have to do it, you have to.” So I
did but I didn’t put my name on it. I think I told you this story before.
Jeffrey de Seriere: No, I haven’t heard this.
John Carnahan: Really, you never heard this story?
Jeffrey de Seriere: No.
John Carnahan: Oh God, this is funny. So, I thought, well, if I entered this contest there’s
kind of a long story, but you’re either known as a composer or a conductor, kind of. Alright,
things have changed now where composers have kind of turned into automatic great conductors
even though they’re not but somehow, you know, every composer now is a conductor. But back
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then, which wasn’t that long ago, no composers were really conducting their own music.
Timothy Mahr, he was about the only one. Other than that, Frank wasn’t doing it then. No one
was doing it then. So I didn’t want the two to mix and I was writing a grade 3 piece. You know,
there’s a stigma about writing easy music and I didn’t want that stigma being a university
conductor. Like, “Oh grade 3, you know, must be what he plays at the university.” So, I thought,
okay, fine I’ll just put a different name on it so I put Jonathan Allen. That was it. Put my name
on it, sign everything up, send it off, done. Didn’t think two things about it. So, they announce it
at Midwest. So, it’s this CBDNA meeting. Just a regular meeting, so everybody goes to the
meeting, you know, we’re all hanging out, and they say okay now were going you know oh yeah
we have to announce the young band winner. And so we’re just standing there. Joan was there.
Dr. D was there, we were both at the meeting, right. So they’re going to announce it you know.
I’m just like, “yeah whatever” I had no… So they announce and the winner is …And the
Antelope Play by Jonathan Alan. And Joan goes “Go up there, go up there.” I said no way, I’m
not going up there, not a chance. She said you go, you win. I said no, man it’s not even my name,
I’m not going up there and they’re looking around and they’re saying well we’ve called a few
times and left messages, but we haven’t heard back well they were calling here, I wasn’t here.
Right? I didn’t have my cell phone number. I put my school phone number on it. So, and they
say well does anybody know who this is and they’re all going no we never heard of him before
and they go well okay we’ll try to see, you know, if we can get in touch with this person. So, that
was over and I just let it go and I got out of there, fast, and then after I left I thought, “How am I
going to get out of this?” I was there, I don’t go up, I use a fake name. It paid $5,000.00. That’s
how much you win. It wasn’t just like you know hey good job you win. You got 5 grand for
winning this thing so and now I’m like I don’t know what I’m going to do, how am I going to get
out of this and so here’s where the story gets even funnier so it’s all over and we’re down at the
lounge and we’re sitting up at the bar and so we’re sitting there and this is when John Mackey
taught here, right? So, we’re there and we’re having a drink, and whatever and John comes up
and he says “hey do you know who Johnathan Allen is? And I go, I don’t know. You know
they’ve been emailing this email at Long Beach J Carnaha. Because that wasn’t my full name,
and he said they’ve been emailing this and that’s what the email was. Do you know who is this?
And finally I go. It’s me. And Mackey goes, Nooooo. Yeah. He went oh my god, really? And
now, if you know John Mackey, he’s like jealous, he’s like wow, not like congratulations. He
said, “Man I gotta write a piece and get in on this” and he did and then he wins a few years later.
So, now he knows who it is and now he thinks it’s really funny. Then he starts laughing about it
like, “Oh, you gotta be kidding me, this is too much,” and I say, “don’t tell anybody. I’m going
to have to fess up and make the call you just keep it under your hat and he went alright.” So,
finally, it was the end of Midwest, I go home, and I thought, “Oh geez I gotta call Dick Floyd.”
That’s who the person was, and explain all of this craziness. So, finally I call him, and I
pretended like I wasn’t at the meeting, because I don’t know if anybody saw me. If they did, they
didn’t remember who I was. Cool, I could just scram out of there. So, I explained to him well I
used that name because you know the reason I told you because it’s just the name I use when I
write music. I don’t want to confuse the two. Oh okay, I don’t think they were very happy about
it, but okay, whatever. So that was the end of that. I was supposed to publish it…theoretically I
was supposed to publish it through Daehn Publications. That was like an automatic, you win, you
get published. Well before I even knew it, Manhattan Beach says we want to do this. I want to do
your, I love it. I think it’s going to be great, you know, I want to publish this. Well, that’s a step
up in publishing fame compared to Daehn Publishing. Although, Daehn is fine, but you know
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Manhattan Beach. It’s Ticheli and all those guys, so you know it’s very recognizable. So, I ended
up going with them and that’s kind of the story. You didn’t know that?
Jeffrey de Seriere: So how did Dick Floyd react to it?
John Carnahan: He was okay, kind of. You know its Dick, he doesn’t get too excited about
one thing or the other. It just sounded like he would have rather me go up there and make it event
rather them make them look stupid. Almost like who is this, and then it turns out to be me and
they couldn’t out jcarnaha, they couldn’t figure out the email, even Mackey couldn’t figure it
out. Alan’s my middle name so that’s why I used it. Johnathan Allen, so that’s where that all
came from, and I’ve used names before for like that for different things that I’ve written, and
now it was cool. I had street cred I could put my real name, so I did then after that. And now
whenever I write stuff, I put my real name on it. But back then I didn’t think I had a chance at all
to win, and I just didn’t want it to go in that direction, so, anyway.
Jeffrey de Seriere: And after the success of that piece you wrote some more pieces that got
published.
John Carnahan: I didn’t even, oh that’s right, I forgot about this. They end up in the
Teaching Music through Performance book. That second piece was Dream of Coming Home,
and I don’t even remember why I wrote it. For here I think, the Symphonic Band here I wrote it
to be played because I thought well I’ll take another shot at it.
Jeffrey de Seriere: I was in that group.
John Carnahan: Oh, were you?
John Carnahan: Well I thought, I’ll take another crack at this, so then I wrote that piece
and then when I wrote that one then. Well, first of all I learned that Antelope was going to be in
the book which I figured it might be just because it won an award. Usually they throw those in
there. Then this one had, I mean, I just wrote it and played it and then that one ended up in there
and I thought, “Wow, well, maybe I’m okay.” I still don’t really consider myself a composer yet,
really. It’s starting maybe now I feel a little better. I don’t know and then Jim Cochran from
Shattinger. I don’t know if you know this story either. He asked me to write a piece for
WASBE. The one that was in Taiwan or Singapore or wherever it was over there. He said, “I
want you to write a piece. It has to be a good enough grade 3 that Universities want to play it,
High Schools will play it, junior high, you know intermediate schools could play it, that’s what I
want.” And I said, “Oh yeah, that’s the piece that everybody wants. Great, okay, fine. I’ll write
it.” And that’s whenever I wrote I Hear Him, the Fennell thing. Well, as it turned out
Universities and other - actually turned out that way. Now it’s not that popular. I don’t think it’s
really that good of a piece. Some people really like it. It’s okay. Then completely unbeknownst
to me that one ends up in the Teaching Music Through Performance in Band. So, the first three
pieces I wrote, actually no, I wrote the fanfare before the I Hear Him! That fanfare I wrote just
for the municipal band here which then I could write it as hard as I want so that’s probably a
grade 6, pretty close. 5, no that’s a grade 6. So that was kind of fun because I could do anything
that I wanted.
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Jeffrey de Seriere: And was that a commission or did you just decide to…
John Carnahan: It was a verbal commission that Larry was trying to…it’s a long story here
to. Larry was trying to get Alfred Reed to do one and for the band, but he didn’t, you know, of
course Larry, he didn’t have money to do it and he was trying to talk people in to it and then
Alfred Reed passed away and so he was just kind of like well okay what do we do? We’re kind
of stuck. I said, “I’ll do one” if you play it. And I said look, you can read it. If you don’t like it,
don’t play it. Doesn’t make any difference to me, but I’ll do a little fanfare so I did and he liked
it fine and they did it. They played it. And then that one got published as well. That was through
C. Alan. The Dream of Coming Home was through C. Alan. The other one, the Fennell one, I
just publish stuff now myself. And then I guess that was all of them so far and just finished that
one, the Pacific Basin thing.
Jeffrey de Seriere: And then you also had Morning Sun on the Wild Prairie Rose
John Carnahan: Oh yeah, I forgot about that one. That one’s pretty cool. It’s hard as crap
but it’s, that piece I really like. It’s harder than it should be, I suppose. It’s one of those kinds of
pieces but yeah, that one I published myself to. Now that you have a little bit of a name people
can type it in and find you so that one has sold a little bit, not too much. It’s just hard. It’s a
pretty big harp and piano part so that eliminates a ton of people right off the bat, but that’s what
she wanted. That was a real commission.
Jeffrey de Seriere: And between your first published piece and the piece that you just
finished, Pacific Basin Celebration, what would be the thing that you probably tried to develop
the most in composing the piece
John Carnahan: Develop the most…it’s the harmonic language I’m trying to develop, but
each piece has its own thing. They’re so irrelevant or not related in a way. They all
sound…people say they hear my little signature things like any composer, but they’re all really
quite different. They’re not really the same much at all, I think. Maybe other people think they
are. But I think they have their own flavor pretty much.
Jeffrey de Seriere: What do you think is your strength in your pieces?
John Carnahan: Well, hmmm, I think because I’m a conductor that when I’m writing it I
conduct while I’m writing it to make it flow like a conductor would do it. Which makes the
music more structured in a way. Nothing is awkward about it except I can’t conduct them, but
nothing should be awkward about the way the pieces flow because if it’s hard to conduct it
usually means…if it’s hard in an awkward way then that usually means the music is kind of
screwed up. If it’s difficult just in a technical way, that’s a different story but if it doesn’t feel
right then probably something’s wrong. So as being a conductor, and a composer, I think that
helps a lot in writing and people say that they really, I don’t say this, but other people tell me that
they really like the way I write melodies. So maybe that’s a strength, I don’t know. It’s got a
good tune to it. I don’t know. That’s what people tell me. So, I don’t know whether it does or
not, but I enjoy writing harmonic structure more than melody which I think go hand-in-hand, I
suppose, but I try to move the harmonies to be something a little “non-bandy” whatever that
means. I take it out of the band sound.
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Jeffrey de Seriere: And try to make it a little more intriguing?
John Carnahan: Yeah, just not so predictable I suppose. Band is very predictable in many
ways. You can just kind of hear it coming and here comes that chord again. Okay, so I try to not
be nearly as predictable as that. I wouldn’t say that I’m…I guess the only one that I really
stretched out on harmonically was the “Fanfare”. The rest of them were pretty straight ahead
harmonically just because of the time that we’re in. Harmonies aren’t quite as advanced or
chromatic as they once were. They might come back. Everything’s gotten quite a bit more
normal in a way.
Jeffrey de Seriere: I’ve made an observation with your pieces and I think there’s an influence
here, but I think that I’d like to see what you think about this. From the system that you’ve come
up with the Wind Symphony here, it seems like that system kind of comes into play as you are
writing a piece because whenever we play one of your pieces, a lot of issues that you might have
to work really hard on, on another composer’s piece, you don’t have to.
John Carnahan: Yeah, that’s true. That’s a good observation. The doublings and so on, just
the way I score it. I would agree with that. So, I don’t know what that says. Whether it’s because
I write it that way it works, or whether it just works that way and everybody should kind of take
a look at it. I’m not sure. But, yeah, we eliminate, they’re pretty straight playable. We never
struggle with pitch or anything in the piece that I write. They just kind of play.
Jeffrey de Seriere: So would you say that scoring is a strength that you have in your pieces?
John Carnahan: Yeah, I would say yeah because that’s where I started. That’s all I ever did
for 20 years. More than 30 years before I wrote my first piece I was doing lots of scoring and
arranging so I don’t know if I scored and arranged early with this system in mind? Maybe it was
kind of messed up, but now I do maybe just subconsciously. Yeah, there’s a lot to score and
maybe that is strength because I really had studied it about how to score chords to make them
sound the best or whatever color combinations, etc.
Jeffrey de Seriere: That’s great. Some good stories.
John Carnahan: As a composer, I suppose.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Okay, so I want to get to some major performance that you’ve done with
the ensemble and talk some specifics about them. As far as I know, prior to the Seattle CBDNA
performance there was a national conference that you had taken the ensemble to at least for
CBDNA.
John Carnahan: Not a national CBDNA. We did a national MENC in Salt Lake City
Jeffrey de Seriere: And what year was that?
John Carnahan: Good question, I could look it up fast maybe.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Sure.
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John Carnahan: I have most of the important programs, that would have been, let’s see. I
don’t know if I’m going to be able to find it that fast. Korea, getting down further…Anyway, it
must have been…geez. We’ll have to go look it up.
John Carnahan: I’ll find it for you. But it was maybe two years, like ‘12, ‘11, ‘10.
Actually we just can probably find it here. Let’s see if we type CMEA…no its CMEA, what was
it called?
Jeffrey de Seriere: MENCA
John Carnahan: MENCA – it will probably pop up. Man, there’s nothing. Maybe it’s not
MENCA anymore. Music Education National Conference…let’s try that. Geez, nothing’s
coming up.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Well we can look it up.
John Carnahan: Yeah – I think it was probably….if ’12 was Seattle it must have been two
years in front of that or three. So ’12, ’11, ‘10,’09. I don’t know, maybe ’09. Actually Jeremy’s
group played there. His junior high band played there the same conference that we played. I’m
thinking it was ’10. But I don’t know. I’ll dig through here and find out for sure. Anyway, yeah,
that was maybe the first national conference.
Jeffrey de Seriere: And that was by, did you have to apply for that or was it an invitation?
John Carnahan: Yeah. No, it was a tape. We had to send in a tape. I made a deal with
Jonathan. I said if I send in a tape and you send in a tape if we get in we’ll do a piece with Choir,
if you get in you do a piece with Band. Deal! We get in. I say okay, oh, well I didn’t send in a
tape. Okay you’re out. The deal was off. So yeah. It was that and then that’s, let’s see, whenever
we were up there we did two performances. We were kind of like the main group. It was a little
bit different. We did a reading session with, oh god, what was his name? I can’t remember now. I
have to go back and look it up. All of this stuff. So, we helped him out. We also…the Boston
Brass which oddly were just here, they were out there as well, and we played with them before in
Fresno I think maybe the year before that at some point and I knew they were there and I said
hey, you just want to do like a surprise drive by whenever we are doing our concert and just
show up like we are surprised that you are there and come in and play a tune. They went yeah,
that’ll be fun. So sure enough, we’re doing our concert you know we end one tune and all of the
sudden here comes the Boston Brass. They just walk on stage, and we all be like surprised like
wow, look, it’s the Boston Brass everyone’s going woohoo, they’re all excited. The audience
goes crazy and we just fire up a tune and we play a tune and they leave. It was a drive by. It was
fun. So that was part of that. I’m just looking here. I had travel stuff in here that might have had
but I don’t see it. Anyway, I’ll keep talking while I’m kind of looking.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Okay, so 2011 was the CBDNA conference. Now can you tell me about
how the ensemble was invited to that performance?
John Carnahan: This was the National CB?
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Jeffrey de Seriere: The National CBDNA in Seattle.
John Carnahan: Yeah, we sent in a tape so I made a tape from here. Oh here it is. MENC.
So, I sent a tape from here and well we almost weren’t invited. So, the way it went was you send
in your tape and you get whatever. So, we sent it in, wow, is this really true? 2006, was it that
long ago, maybe.
Jeffrey de Seriere: I think it could be because I think the year the thing you did before Seattle
was Colorado.
John Carnahan: Oh yeah, yeah. That’s right. That’s why it’s all adding up. Yeah, then this
was 2006.
John Carnahan: Because then right after that I think MENC folded and turned in to
whatever it is now. Anyway, what were we talking about?
Jeffrey de Seriere: Seattle
John Carnahan: Oh yeah, we sent in a tape and I didn’t think you know, I thought maybe,
who knows if we get lucky. It’s out here maybe they’ll give us a break or whatever. It was an
okay tape. Emblems was on it actually. Emblems, and something else. We actually staged a fake
concert to make the tape because the tape was due before our last concert, so we did a concert in
the Recital Hall – just invited people in. Were you in that?
John Carnahan: Yeah, so you remember all this. That’s the tape that we made. Anyways,
so then I get a call from Tom Duffy who was the president and he said, “Okay, look, you know,
you are, you know, you may or may not get invited. You’re the next band down but we’re trying
to find a performance slot if we can, if we can find that day in the theater at the University of
Washington so you know. I hate to tell you like that because you may not get it but just know
that if we can get that one extra performance slot, you’re the band.” I said okay well that’s you
know that’s great news, yeah, that’s fair enough, that’s cool. He said, “We’re pretty sure but I
don’t want you to get your hopes up, but just know that that’s a possibility and that you did good
enough to make it if we can get this slot.” I thought, “Okay, fabulous, that’s cool.” Cause they
only take like what, 6?
John Carnahan: So that’s pretty good. And so, then I don’t know it was maybe a week or
so later and he said “Yeah, we got it, you’re in” and then he said we had to pick when we wanted
to perform our date and time that we would like to do it. I’m a fool. I picked Thursday night, the
last concert at the hall at Washington. Not thinking, I thought we’d probably be the first one on
Wednesday morning when no one’s there, but I don’t know why we got that slot. It was like the
prime slot or one of the prime slots of the whole conference. So, we got that and then he was
shilling around looking for people to, and this might have had something to do with it, I think
107
this was before we got our performance slot. For somebody who was willing to play this winner
of some award thing. I don’t know what it was. Do you have it?
Jeffrey de Seriere: The thing is the Fred Fennell Young Composer prize.
John Carnahan: Okay, there you go. You know more than I do about this. So, I said we’ll
do it if you conduct it though. I’m not going to do it. I want Tom, you conduct it, so I figured,
hey, if I get the president to conduct he should give us a good slot. Sure enough, my plan
worked. Now why I wanted such a good slot, I don’t know because you’re really laying it out,
you know. We would have probably been safer not to do that, but I’m stupid and young. Well,
you know not young but I am stupid. Sure enough, we get that slot so then we were in which
gave us extra time actually. We didn’t have to stay within that 50 minute time slot, so I loaded
up. You know, we loaded up on literature man and it was cool. We even took a little intermission
because we had so much stuff. As it turned out, people loved it. They thought we were really one
of the best bands there and everybody says that, so that’s not coming from me. We just hear
people talking about it so you were there; it was quite a great performance. The band was really
on fire. So relaxed and just like, confident. Just did it. Everybody was having a good time and
playing great music. It was really cool. That was a highlight, not just because it was there but
because that was really a great performance. That was a really good one. Really good
performance. Yeah, that was one of the great ones.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Let’s talk about some of the music we did on that performance. The two
pieces that stood out to me were the Fauchet Symphony and Joel Puckett’s Avelynn’s Lullaby.
John Carnahan: Oh yeah.
Jeffrey de Seriere: So let’s talk about Avelynn’s Lullaby first because that was a commission
John Carnahan: A premiere.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Had you planned on commissioning a composer to write a piece for us for
that performance?
John Carnahan: Yes.
Jeffrey de Seriere: And how did you decide on Joel Puckett?
John Carnahan: Well, let’s see. How did this all come about? Well, I loved his one piece
and he was like the guy who was really up and coming. He’d written a few pieces before that
were really hard, really too difficult. Then we played, what was that?
Jeffrey de Seriere: It perched at Vespers nine
108
John Carnahan: It perched at Vespers nine, and I really liked his approach to color and
sound. It just, to me, was beautiful. Good score, I guess maybe I’m drawn to that because I
recognize it maybe, but he really scores well and I just thought he was the perfect guy to do it
and he agreed to do it and I wanted to keep it, and when I did it I said, “Look I want a piece that
lots of people can play. I don’t want it to be too difficult, but you know I want it to come in like
at a grade 4 where people could play it.” That was my goal. I didn’t cut him loose at all and that
band could have played just about anything but that wasn’t my goal. I wanted it to be like that,
and he had just had his daughter and I said look, you want to write a piece about your daughter,
perfect. Make her your inspiration and then, you know, knock yourself out. Because I figure, you
know, if you’re ever going to write a great piece, it’s your first kid. Talk about inspiration. How
can you go wrong? It’s got to be great. So, he agreed to do it. He thought that was a great idea. I
said yeah, just write it, and then after that, I just let it go. You know, he could write whatever he
wanted to write. And so, he came up with Avelynn’s Lullaby and that’s what it was. It gets a lot
of play.
Jeffrey de Seriere: It does, yeah.
John Carnahan: A lot of people play that piece because it’s playable, it’s very pretty, it has
a nice harmonic. I love his harmonic language too. I suppose I kind of lean towards that in many
ways whenever I write. Just the way he approaches resolution. He does it in such a nice way. So
yeah, that was that, and he was there for that, you know he came along and worked with us
actually a few times, and we have been very good friends since then. I haven’t talked to him too
much lately, but actually later than that he gave us exclusive recording rights to “Vespers nine”.
Not even to “Avelynn’s” but to “Vesper’s nine” which I have a great recording of. I’ve never
really even sent it to him but man it’s really good. That was the band that had the great sound.
That’s why it came out so well. Anyways, so that was that one and then I don’t know how I got
on to, I don’t know who it happened, I wanted to commission a second piece too. It was going to
be a fanfare and what’s his name, the tuba? He had just came on to the scene writing pieces and a
lot of people were all turned on by his writing and I wasn’t because he could write like an minute
and a half of something really good, and then it would just completely change into something
different, and that would be good to but there was no relevance so the piece never had a front to
back feeling of completion. But I thought, Fanfare, if he can keep a minute and a half of good
stuff, we’re in! And he had is name, was really getting pretty famous. So, I called and I just
talked to him about it, and he said, “I’ll do it for nothing.” I said, “Wow, are you sure?” He said,
“Yeah, I’ll have exposure.” And I kind of said, “Yeah, you know you get more exposure at
CBDNA,” and he was kind of on the rise as a writer and he kind of started to fancy himself as
one. So, he thought this was a good experience and I thought, okay, this is cool. Anyway, so that
was you know we had such literature problems because even the Fauchet just tied us up. You
know, that never came until late in the spring semester. We had done the old version, so we were
familiar with it but, you know, the new version was quite different in terms of scoring. It was the
same ear sound, but it wasn’t the same orchestration of scoring by any means. So that was a
problem and then we thought oh well this may not even come in and now I’m fretting like, oh
crap, we’re going to have to do the old version of Fauchet, and everybody was saying well why
would you do the old version of Fauchet, that’s kind of for a CBDNA National, so all this stuff
has come tumbling down. Joel’s thing was the only thing that was going well and the Firefly was
cool, that worked great. I don’t know what else was on there, oh Hemispheres that was great, or
not Hemispheres the other, the Turrin one.
109
Jeffrey de Seriere: I’m trying to remember the name of it.
John Carnahan: Yeah, I know. Whatever it was and that one was going to go fine but these
other two, the main piece of the concert and the opening of the concert. Two of the most
important pieces. Out of three important pieces, the last one, the middle one and the first one.
Two of them were dead. So, finally, that piece came but if you remember, there were, I have like,
twelve pages line by line of errata for that. Do you remember that? Do you remember, we just
had to dig, and we were finding, before we played up there we were still finding little mistakes.
It was awful and then Joan was the one who said, “Well why don’t you do your fanfare?” It’s
cool and I went no, man, I’m not gonna, I’ll look stupid. I’m doing my own music at a CBDNA,
oh my god. But finally it came down to it, we were just stuck and there was nothing else. I
couldn’t find anything else that I wanted to do that would work. I said, “Okay, I’ll bite the bullet
and you’re doing it.” She said, “Yeah, I love that piece! I’ll do it!” And I said, “Okay. Done and
done!” So that was how my piece ended up on there, which worked out okay. No one ever
seemed bugged by it. I never heard anything like why you doing your own? It was a good
enough opening piece that people accepted it at least anyway. And then we did the other piece
that was awful, the new composer piece was just a mess and Tom was conducting it kind of and
it was not an easy piece to get through, but we made it somehow. But that was part of the reason
why we got extra time because we were doing an extra piece, yada yada, so it all played out that
way and we played a ton of music. We were on there for about an hour and 10 or 15 minutes
probably. And then the cool thing was there was a reception after looked like it was a reception
for us. It just worked out like we hit the right time, at the right place, with the right music at the
right performance, and it all kind of all came together. Not without trouble but in the end, it all
kind of lined up. Which was very cool and then do you know, even before that, I don’t know if
you remember or not, but when I put in the tape I had the first clarinetist who was fantastic, and
the first oboe was a little wonder boy. He was there, and they were all coming back the next year.
I thought, I’m set and then both of them leave and I lose my first flute player, so it was quite a
road travelled to get to that performance. It really was. But it worked. That was another thing that
was just kind of a little wrench in the works, oh god, I have to replace two people who were stars
and then that little gal came up and played fantastic. Everyone was talking about how great she
played. Everybody just stepped up. It was cool.
Jeffrey de Seriere: That was a great performance.
John Carnahan: People still talk. I’m not kidding that people still talk about it now even
last year there’s still people that come up to me and say man that was really, I just loved and the
two things they really talked about was the literature choices because you know I didn’t play
anything really way out or crazy, you know. It was all just normal, good, solid music. Nothing
atonal really. It just was good music that people enjoyed listening to, so they sat through the
whole thing and didn’t ever get bored like, “Oh when’s this, this is a bad piece, when’s this
going to get over?” And the one kid’s piece was short enough, it didn’t matter. The other thing
was our sound they talked about. The one comment that really stuck with me about that
performance was one he was a conductor, Chris from Northwestern Pacific State. It was just like
I had headphones on when I was listening. Oh man because that’s clarity, that’s pitch, that’s
everything all wrapped up into one kind of comment which I loved that. I thought that was really
cool. And there was nothing about that performance that ever went south at all. Zero! Not a clip,
not pitch thing, nothing. It just went front to back like it was a recording. It was really cool.
110
Anyway, I don’t mean to go on and on about it, but I haven’t talked about it for a long time.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Nice to reminisce.
John Carnahan: Yeah.
Jeffrey de Seriere: And then immediately after that, the next year we did Carnegie Hall and
…
John Carnahan: Yeah, that was rough. For a variety of reasons, mostly because we had our
soloist, Alan Baer and we only had so much time on that stage and he took up the entire time.
You remember? We didn’t play anything else, nothing else of our whole rep and that stage was
hard to play on. Really hard, well remember, he was having a hard time and we just couldn’t
play soft enough for him and it was just a mess and the performance, I guess it was okay. I
thought it was kind of a mess but when you listen to the recording it’s not too bad. But it was
pretty messy, I thought. It came out alright. It was a good experience for people to go to New
York and play there and play Carnegie Hall. That was cool.
Jeffrey de Seriere: And that was an invitation from World Projects?
John Carnahan: Yeah, to be their featured group there. That came without it. We didn’t ask
to go. They just asked us to go. That was the same year we played at Fresno, I think. That was a
good concert there too. That was a good sounding group. That group sounded really good. It was
a pretty sound. That was that year. You skipped the one at Colorado, that was a good experience
as well. Whenever we went there. That was a good group.
Jeffrey de Seriere: What conference was that for?
John Carnahan: The Colorado Music Educators, their CMEA, which is. Their group is
strong and solid. That’s their main group there. CBA to Colorado Band Association I think it’s
called maybe something like that. Colorado Band Master’s Association, I think that’s what that
is. That’s their second group too. But they all kind of come together. CMEA is the big one for
them. Yeah, you know, we went to Wales too once. That was a long time ago. That was a good
trip. So…
Jeffrey de Seriere: How did that come about?
John Carnahan: Oh, we were invited again. It was a music festival and we were invited to
be the featured group at the festival. Actually, Jerry Junkin and a bunch of people were supposed
to be there. For whatever reason, we already had bought in. We were going. Everything was paid
pretty much. All of sudden, oh, well by the way, there’s no festival. Okay, great. So that folded. I
guess no other groups went or whatever and they just canned it. But we were still going, which
was cool. It was at a weird time because the college had a lot of money for god knows why and
they just said “go.” Here you go. How unusual, so we did it and it was really fabulous because
we played with professional groups over there. We played with Kew Wind Ensemble, KEW. It
was from London. They were a good group. We shared a concert with them. Then we share a
concert with Birmingham, no, was it Birmingham? Oh, well, we share a concert with the
Birmingham Winds which back in the day they were pretty famous. They were travelling the
111
United States and playing all over. I don’t know about them now. But we played in their hall
there which was cool. That’s when Leo went with us and played that one piece. Then we played
with the University of Wales in Wales. What was the name of the University? We shared a
concert with them as well. “Mountians” was one of the pieces we played there.
John Carnahan: Yeah. So, we stretched that out a bit on that one. I don’t remember one
other piece that we did. Oh, except for Leo’s piece and I don’t remember the other ones. We
worked, we worked with a, what was the composer’s name? English composer. He really liked
us. He was a crotchety old guy trying to be crotchety, but he couldn’t really find too much to be
crotchety about. What was his name? Who was the guy? I can’t think of the name of the piece
either. If I said the name you’d recognize it. Oh, I can’t think of it now. Anyway, he did a little –
we did one of his pieces. He conducted his piece with us. That’s why he really kind of liked it
and we were playing…what were we playing? Oh, I know. We were playing one of the Stanhope
things. One of those symphonies…and a really good compliment, you know, and I always try to
do things authentically like the country and then this was a while ago and I was still working on
that kind of stuff, and one of the British band guys said, “Wow, I’m surprised, that really sounds
like here.” Cool. So that was cool. Yeah, we played a lot of concerts there. It was really a nice
trip. The company was not so good, but we made the best of it. You know, they weren’t too
organized in some respects but that didn’t matter. We’re in England. We’re having a great time.
Did a lot of good sightseeing there to.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Well, I have one more question. It’s a big one though.
John Carnahan: Okay.
Jeffrey de Seriere: So now that you are the current Director of Bands and you have also been
able to see what Larry had done with the program and heard some of the things that happened
prior to that with earlier directors like H. Robert Reynolds, and some of the early band directors
like Sanford Helm. What do you think Long Beach’s contribution to the Wind Band field has
been?
John Carnahan: Hmm, contribution.
Jeffrey de Seriere: What contributions has it made?
John Carnahan: Well I think it’s the only…if you look around at the generation that we
have gone through meaning that we started with, well, I guess kind of with Bob. Prior to that it
was very localized. There was nothing happening. Just local kind of stuff. Local even meaning,
just in the school. Not even the bands going out and doing anything. Then whenever Bob came
here he started a reputation that was more national. Not at first because when he was here he
wasn’t nationally known yet. He was just starting his career. But what happened with him here
that was kind of a little flashpoint right there. Not just for other conductors but for professional
musicians. If you look at all the people that were in his band and where they ended up, and what
they did. It was pretty amazing. And then from there, and what I mean by flashpoint is you can’t
look at hardly one other university that has had a bigger influence on our profession as a whole.
Then people who came from here or conducted here. You just think about it. It really is pretty
112
impressive. You can’t say, “Okay, well Eastman has…” Hmm, who’s the Eastman conductor
other than the guy who was there all of those years? Hunsberger.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Hunsberger.
John Carnahan: Who were his students that have made a big mark on…that you would
recognize right away that’s their name? And you can go through each major “University” and
say, “What’s the lineage and what was the mark that was made through that institution?” A
couple people but even then, you say those two people, what about their students? You don’t
even know. But when you look here, you look at the people and this flashpoint of where it went
from Bob, to Alan, to Gene, and then you look after that if he was the first one, and you take
even just those two, and you take the tree out from them, and then even a tree further out maybe
it’s just starting now from their students who have students. Alan’s tree won’t be quite as big, but
the influence is exponential. There is no other place even close to being like it. Larry’s students,
yeah, we had Tom and me. You know there’s a few people out there. That was, I would kind of
more normal. Mine, I don’t really have anybody out there yet but nobody’s old enough so that
hopefully happens. But certainly, a lot of professional musicians who I had in my groups that are
out there really playing. That are making a big difference in things and even the people who
teach here were Long Beach. I mean, it’s a weird place for whatever reason. It just kind of…the
influence is the word that comes to mind. The influence that this has had on the wind band world
is exponential. More so than any other institution that I know. Including even when you look at
Fred Fennell’s students. Not that many come to mind. He was, you know, an icon of course but
the lineage is what I’m talking about. It’s the outgrowth from here that is not matched. We may
not have had the absolute most fantastic super-duper conductors while they were here, but once
they moved out they got better. You know, Fennell was at Eastman, that was his icon and then
went to Miami, but it was just kind of him. You don’t see the outreach growth somehow.
Interesting, huh?
Jeffrey de Seriere: Very.
John Carnahan: I guess I never even thought about it that way, but that’s what it is to me.
It’s just the influence that this little institution has had on the wind band world is pretty
substantial.
Jeffrey de Seriere: Yeah, I would agree. Alright, thank you Professor Carnahan.
John Carnahan: This is it? Yep.
Jeffrey de Seriere: I appreciate it.
[End of Audio]
Duration: 81 minutes
113
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THE BAND PROGRAM AT CALIFORNIA STATE UNIVERSITY, LONG BEACH:

ITS HISTORY AND CONTRIBUTIONS TO THE WIND BAND MEDIUM

Presented to the Bob Cole Conservatory of Music

California State University, Long Beach

of the Requirements for the Degree

John Alan Carnahan, M.A. (Chair)

Johannes Müller Stosch, D.M.A

B.M., 2013, California State University, Long Beach

ALL RIGHTS RESERVED

THE BAND PROGRAM AT CALIFORNIA STATE UNIVERSITY, LONG BEACH:

ITS HISTORY AND CONTRIBUTIONS TO THE WIND BAND MEDIUM

documents important to the history of the band program at CSULB.

me to follow whatever dreams I may have.

innovation that continues to provide for many.

For my Grandfather, Linnae “Bucky” Harris Berg.

LIST OF FIGURES ...................................................................................................................... v

1. AN INTRODUCTION TO THE MODERN WIND BAND/ENSEMBLE…………….. 1

2. THE EARLY YEARS OF THE “BEACH” BANDS: 1951-1964 ................................... 7

3. H. ROBERT REYNOLDS 1964 (JANUARY)-1968: BRINGING THE CSCLB

4. DON WILCOX 1968-1969............................................................................................... 27

5. LARRY CURTIS 1969-1994: BRINGING THE CSULB BAND PROGRAM TO

6. JOHN ALAN CARNAHAN 1994-CURRENT: CREATION OF THE “LONG

7. IN RETROSPECT AND RECOMMENDATIONS......................................................... 40

A. INTERVIEW WITH H. ROBERT REYNOLDS............................................................. 43

B. INTERVIEW WITH LARRY CURTIS ........................................................................... 69

C. INTERVIEW WITH JOHN ALAN CARNAHAN.......................................................... 91

1. Dr. Bertram McGarrity. .................................................................................................... 8

2. Dr. Robert W. Winslow .................................................................................................... 9

3. Dr. Robert Winslow and the LBSC Band......................................................................... 10

5. Dr. Sanford Helm.............................................................................................................. 11

7. Mr. Charles J. Payne ......................................................................................................... 16

8. Dr. John E. Green.............................................................................................................. 17

9. Professor H. Robert Reynolds........................................................................................... 20

11. Professor Larry Curtis....................................................................................................... 29

12. Professor John Alan Carnahan......................................................................................... 34

AN INTRODUCTION TO THE MODERN WIND BAND/ENSEMBLE

Defining the Term “Wind Band/Ensemble”

The Eastman Wind Ensemble: Historical Background

CA: Orange Coast Productions, 2004), DVD.

of the Eastman Wind Ensemble.” 9

University of Michigan Symphony Band:

instrumentation of the newly formed Eastman Wind Ensemble:

THE EARLY YEARS OF THE “BEACH” BANDS: 1951-1964

instrumental ensembles at LBSC.

department and the band program.

Dr. Robert W. Winslow: 1952-1954

teachers for public schools.” 20

Dr. Sanford Helm: 1954-1958

FIGURE 5. Dr. Sanford Helm. The 1956 Prospector, page 30.

below, the position so long enjoyed by that for strings.” 25

establishing and promoting music for wind instruments.

consisted of the following pieces:

Fugue No. 4 from The Well Tempered Clavier……………………Johan Sebastian Bach

Suite Francaise……………………………………………………………Darius Milhuad

Colonel Bogey March…………………………………………………….Kenneth Alford

Rhapsodie Norvegienne……………………………………………………..Edouard Lalo

Chicago Tribune March…………………………………………William Paris Chambers

Water Music Suite………………………………………………..Georg Friderich Handel

Porgy and Bess………………………………………………………….George Gershwin

Procession of the Nobles, from Mlada………………………...Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov

tradition of wind band/ensemble performances of high aesthetic value at LBSC.

creation of the dance band.

marching band. 33 This duty would fall upon his successor.