404 ‘THIS DOCUMENT 18 THE PROPERTY OF HIS BRITANNIG MAJESTY'S GOVERNMENT SERA ERGEERES OF B1s BRITRN RIG MATEOYE(S GOVERMENT. Printed far the Wor Cabinet, Arwyeast 1041, SECRET. Copy No. 43 WM. (4) 84th Conclusions, ) TO BE KEPT UNDER LOCK AND KEY. It is requested that speoial care may be talren to. ‘ensure the seorecy of this document, WAR CABINET 84 (41). CONCLUSIONS of a Meeting of the War Cabinet held at 10, Downing Street, SW, on Tuestog, August 19, 1941, of 11°30 30 Present ‘The Right Hon Wimsrox 8. Crunomms, M-P., Prime Minister (in the Chair). ‘The Right Hon. C. R. Artur, M.P.,/'The Right Hon. Sir Jomw Axnersoy, ‘Lord Privy Seal. MP, Lord Prosident of the Counci ‘The Right Hon, Axrmoxy Epes, M.P., | The Right Hon. A. Greaxwoon, MLP., Secretary of State for Foreign | Minister without Portfolio Affairs. | ; ‘Tho Right Hon. Sir Krxostny Woon, M.P., Chancellor of the Exchequer. ‘The following were also present : The Right Hon. P. Fraser, MP. ‘Prime Minister of New Zealand. ‘The Right Hon. Hesssur Morzisos, | The Right Hoo, Viscouxr Cxanponsa, MDS? Gouisary of Gate for ths | Secretary of Oeste for Dominion Home Departnent and Minister of ; Affaire Home Security. ‘The Right Hon Loap Monee, Seore- | The Right Hon A. V. Azexaxen, tary of State for the Clot MP, First Lard of the Admiralty. Capidin tbe Right” Hon. HD, |The Right. Hon.” Sir Anownatp [ARCESEON, M.P,, Secretary of State | Sinctam Bt, MP, Secretary of for War. State for Air. The Right Hon, Bnaypaw Brackzx, The Hon. Sir Axexaxpen Canooax, MP., Minister of Information, Permanent Under-Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs. Admiral of the Fleet Sir Dupiny | General Sir Jomx Dat, Chief of the ‘ousp, First Sea Lord and Chief of | Imperial General Sait Air Chief Marshal Sir Cnanzs F. A.| Air Chief Marshal Sir Witrnp Portat, Chief of the Air Stafl, Ermotax, Vice Chief of the Air > Vioe.Admiral Sin T. 8, V, Punasee, | Lint ‘General Sir H.R. Powmars, ‘Vice-Chief of Naval Stall ‘Vice Chief of the Tmporial General Stall Secretariat. Sir Eowarn Brmors. 2 ‘Major-General Sir Hastimcs Tsuar. Mr. W. D. Wruxinsox Mr. L. F. Boreas (22880) Bie ges ca 2wits Minute Ne, WAR CABINET 84 (41). Contax. Subject. Diseuasions between the Prime Minister and President Roosevelt, ie Nome oa ‘nited States help in convors, The Joint Declertion. Supply questions reatcn = Plgrin. re Par Task, Parala Thin Dominions ase de Piypamed aecling uf Dumian Peinse Miaintrs oul visit ut SEE"Htensies. Naval, Military and Air Operations Mr, Fraser Page 223,228 WM. 84 (44). Disensstons 1 The Prime Minister gavo tho War Cabinet an eccount*ot boowoen the his diaoussions with President Roosevelt and of his short visit to aime Minietor Teoland on the return journey. and Presiden, ‘The President had been overjoyed at the mesting. ‘The Reosoralt. greatest cordiality had prevailed, and the Americans had missed «Previous he opportunity of identifying themselves with our cause. The Reformea: American Naval Officers had nob conceals their Keonness to enter WAM (41).62ed the war.’ While.he (tho Prime Minister) had, had discussjons with Concluoes, the President, om political matters, Staff discussions had proceeded. Minate 2) simaltaneonsly.” These ad been most useful, and would he reported fon on @ later occasion ‘The following were the main points dealt, with in, the Prime Minister's survey: — United Stise By the 2st Sapcomer tho Amesiean Navy wonld have a conor hopin Gonveye syscet- in fll operatign betweet, thelr oasis and Teeand.. This Wwould'aflord. grat relief te.gur Naval sesrels engaged on convey duties. This precedre wold protent the enemy srth m dlemnn, Either he could. attack the conveys, in.whiek case his. U-boat would be attacked by the American Naval foivers or he could Tofrain from atiagk, which woold ba tantamount to giving ve vitary in the Buttle of the Ataniac he dent ‘The Prime Minister explained how the idea of a Joint Declara Decreti tion had came about, and fow keen the resident ad fem on its ‘immediate publication, “The President had been rery pleased with the new paragraph dealing with social sexily, suggested by the Nya Gauiven beead bees emeewnics, taluenee eregren 1a be todifations in the fourth paragraph, which im its orgioal form, might hee valed ont Uw amtincunes of Lnpertal Profrenoe. Ee (ihe tine Sli) aoe oa gre ie War Caine or having met ac 1-43 a. on the 125 August in order to furnish tits il thetr somumercs Without delay.” Ths Prime Minivter drew attention to passages in the Declara- tion which wore sigmifcant of the changed atttiade av compared with that of TOLZ-A8. Tnsiend of saying that there would be to Tnore war, we aimed at adequate precautions to” prevent war Tappeuing. again by efecciely disarming onr enemies. Again, insead of trying to ruin German tral, we now took the view that the world could fot aflord to see any large mation weprosparoas.. TL twas nis important that the President sheuld: Rate agreed. 4 Declaration which in his {sho President's) phrase referred to the {Sfinal destraction of Neai tangy. ee ieee al ney Wook aiscunted fn, detail, at would be taken up Question, by Lord: Bemverbroak and 3" Harriman. “The broad picture was that Anetiean production at present was somewhat. diesppointing. ‘American adosiry was working to rupply thein own Fores, our freon andnow those of the Russians. here aroald have to be & forisw of United Stats programmes, and measires would have to fe taken which, would inves restrictions on civil ccasbinption JPhis gas got easy to enforce on nation mot at war. Operation "The Prine Minister gave the War Cabinet. information as to Stern” «the resident's teaetion the, chree matters referred to in the (Previne ‘Margin Rome ‘The discussion and Conclusions reached are recorded in the WAL GH) Sie Seorstary’s Standard File of War Cabinet Conclusions, Mints 1) = ‘Th Pas Bost Persia (Previons | Reterence: Wak (At) bord Covik tina, Minute 4) : a2 [p28s0) i f ; 7B ple cee ER aracd ss ea24 The Lord Privy Seal expressed the Cabinee w tue Prime Minister for all what represented a great and notable achievement, atitade of the War “had dene, Hts vis ‘The Dominios. 2. "The War Cabinet had before them copies of the telegram Prpand dexpaiched by the Lard Privy Seal to the Prime Mister of the Mering ot 4th Angust’ and of the Prime Minister's reply received on the Domine, 16th Angsty” Prime Muir Jy disousion, Mr. Fraser expressed doubts whether a meeting of Dominion Prime Ministers # hurriedly called, would serve any very useful purpese, especially. in the absence of Field-Marshal erevost” Emiuea "He was convinoed that no single Dominion Prime Minister Relernct: could posibiy repretent.all the Dominions in the. War Cabinet, MG) 624 more expecially now that each of the, Dominions was a. overe Concimlens, “State.” Frther, the Prime Minister of one of the Dominions com Miuste 4)" pot be permanent or semi-permaneat member of the War Calne, nce he’ could. not continua to exercise the functions. of Prims Miniseer during a long absence feom his own Deninion, Neverthe, less, be wauld welone aay arrangements which might be made for Closer co-operation becwetn the “Dominions, Ho’ saggestad that consideration might be given to an arrangement for folding sbore meetings at seated inter als The Prime Minister said that, if the Prime Minister of any of the Dominions came to London, he would at once be invited to attend meetings of the War Cabinet regularly. If all four Dominion Prime Sfinisters Sound it possible w be in Londen at the same time, then, of course, there would be no difficulty in arranging @ conference of Prime Ministers. ‘A different situation would, however, arise if four represen- tatives of the Dominions, who were not, in effect, active Prime Ministers, were to coma to Tandon, To invite them to enter the War Cabinet would mean an addition to mumbers which would prosent considerable difficalty, and could not be: about. without, roosting of the machinery of government. He did not see how ‘Ministers in this position could be asked to attend meetings of the War Cabinet ar a pormanoat arrangement. An discussion, it was also pointed out that the inclusion of Field-Marshal Smuts in the War Cabinet in the last war hnd stood on a different footing, General Smuts (as he then was) had been appointed 0 member of the War Cabinet lngely onthe grounds of his high technical qualifications. “He had not been appointed as. representative of the Union of South Africa, nor, indeod, had he nt that time been Prime Minister of the Union. ‘The War Cebinet expressed general agreement with these views. Having regard to the uncertainty of the political pens aa Saeonee Prime Maine ei seas telecram tn Me Menzies explaining to him Foslion'as foliued aporarl aris, uitery —-3._The Chiefs of Staff gavo recent oporational information, ‘and Ale ; ‘Oporations ‘The Chief of the Aér Staff explained that the losses sustained ar ae CE reat ary auitioiateen oteeseniae Season: ¥y (107 machines lost since the beginning of the month) had % sara been partly due to treacherous wonther. There was no doubt, B26 G22 however, that the enemy flakand searchlights had been strengthened. ‘Minute 1) 4 Copy othected. ‘aa a se. ee i es‘Ma, Fras, 295 WLM. 08 (41). ‘Tha Prime Ministar ania that one attaclee shoald not be pressed too hard if the weather was unfavourable. Consideration should also be given to attacking the less heavily defended centres. ‘The War Cabinet concurred in this view. 42) De Fra anit than we pny ela team cx which ie would ationd a Meeting of tho War Cabinet on his present visit. He wished to express hing a sreciation of the privilege if nitanding Mectings of the War Cabinet and to theo mont heartily all the Ministers and Chiefs of Scaft for the help which ey ied eee he Prime Méaiter, ln reply, said thal Bz, Fraser would ake with him the’ warmest feelings of personal friendchip’ from ail Members of the War Cabinet. They had been greatly pleased to hhave him among them, and they had derived confidence. from orang. that be had examined matters for himsclf and had been Satisfied with what he had found. He hoped that Mr. Fraser would ict the people of New Zealand now how niuch we valued not only the valiant aid of their troops, but also the moral support of their spontancons sympathy. Great George Street, 81, August 19, 1941. 103104 ‘CHE PRDGE MINISTER gave coms more general inform— ‘tion about his visit to the United States President, over and above what 4s recorded in the Minutes. ‘The Primo Minister caid that he ha? got on intimate terms with the President. Of the six meals they had had together, five had been on the President's ship. The President had shown ereat activity, considering his physical éisabilities, and on one occasion had walked (every step causing him pain) a considerable a1stance in front of Marines drawn up on parade, notwithstanding that hie ovn people had advised him againct doing this. ‘The Prime Minister said that the family anfluence fon the President was great. Both his sons were in uniform and clearly urged him that American assistance in money and matériel was not cnough. The Prime Minister gave his impression of the President's attitude towards the entry of the Unites States inte the war. He wan obviounly determined that they should come dns On the other mand, the Prestaont had been extrenely ancious about the Bill for further appropriations for Lease-Lend, which had only passed with a very narrow majority. Clearly he vas skating on pretty thin aoe an nus reistions with congress, mic, however, he ai¢ not regard aa truly representative of the Cuneta.) ar beetle ites pit: tha: denna of ‘venoe endear to Congress, they would debate it for three months. ‘The President had said that he would wage war, but not declare it, and that ne would become more and nore provocative. If tie Germans did not 1ine dt, they could attack tiemAmac fi ae105 Pull agreement had nov been reached on the acheme “hereby the American Wavy would have their convoy system in full operation tetween their country and Ieeland by the 1st September. This would release no less than 52 British destroyers and corvettes now based on Halifax for veonvoy duty on other routes. Rach of our North Atlantic convoys would be escorted by 5 U.8. destroyers, together with a capital ship or a cruiser. The President's orders lo Ulese escorts were to attack any Usboet wnien showed itself, even if it were 800 or 300 miles avay from the convoy. Admiral Stark intended to carry out this order literally, and any Cormander eho eank a U-boat would have his action approved. Bverything was to be done to force an “incident”. This would put the eneay in the dilemma that either he could attack the convoys, in which case his U-voats vould be attacked by American Naval forees, or, 1f he refrained from attack, this would be tantamount to giving us victory in the Battle of the Atlantic. [t might sult us, in six or eight weeks to provoke Hitler by teunting him with this éifticult choices he Prime Minister said that he had thought it right to give the President a warning- He had told him that he would not angver for the consequences 4f Russia was compelled to eue for peace and, say, by the Spring of next year, hope died in Britain that the United States were coming into the war. The President nad taken thie very well, and liad made 4t clear that he would 100% for on 4noident” which would justify him in opening hostilities. Denling with supplies for Russia, the Prime Minister aig that we might have to mxke some sacrifices, hut this would be well worth while so long as the Russian front, xenaineé in being. when Lord Beaverbrook returned to ‘tale aountry he would have to go to Moscow, If the Poretgt 2.106 Secretary also thought of going to uoscow to deal with ‘the more general political issues, he was sure that nothing but good would coms out of the visit. The ‘technical pects Of Supplies questions should, however, he thought, be handled by Lora Beaverbrook. Great George Street, S-Wele a106 Secretary also thought of going to Moscow to deal vith ‘he more genoral political issues, he was sure that nothing but good would come out of the visit. The ‘technical aspects of supplics questions should, hovever, ne thought, be handled by Tord Beaverbrook. Great George Street, 8-W.1-See Cekaule 2. 497 MOST IMMEDIATE. From Lord Privy Seal. ABBEY NO, 46. 1. _Oabinet this norning considered question of an early mesting of four Dominion Prime Ministers in London in the following circumstances. Be, Wis MacDonald telegraphed yesterday that tir. Mackensie King, who hes now postponed his arrival in England until fist August, hea suggested that 1¢ might te possible te hold cuch a meeting at the end of Auguat. 3+ Mr. Menzies has announced publicly that provided he ean secure concurreme of Labour Party in Australia he proposes, at the request of hia Cabinet colieagues, to proceed to London at a very early date to deal with the major questions of Empire policy and strategy with particular reference apparently te the Far East. 4. Mr. Fraser had intended to return very shortly to New Zeniana having negara to Bar Rastara citnation and to impending General Eleotion there but has stated that if there is good prospect of arranging meting with 911 four Prime Ministers he vould be prepared to stay here a little longer notwithstanding the great inconvenience whien this would couse him. le was emphatic that meeting should not exceed two or three days. 5. General srute arrived Cairo August 12th and is dye te veturn to South Africa in & fewy days’ tine. 6. As two Dominion Prime Ministers have suggested Conference Cabinet felt that possibility mast again be considered notwithstanding the practical diffioultic 7. View of Cabinet was that while time has not vome for e full Conference to discuss especially post-war problems there is sonetising to be said for e brief mesting for purposes of general consultation as to the war position with particular reference to Par Bast. Tmportant effect on public opinion here and in Dominions of such a Meeting following on your retura from meeting with Fresident Roosevelt needs no enphasic. 8. Practical difficulty oxiste in the time fector. You aré acquainted with local difficulties in South Africa which provont Gongral grivts trom being away trom tere for long. li. Wengivs could not hope to arrive in Bngland before ond of August so that General gmuts! return to South Africa nould in effect be delayed fer at least three weeko+109 9 oe Gi. IMMEDIATE. ‘TUDOR No. 56. Prime Minister to Lord Privy Seal. Reference ABBEY 46. 3, Menzies has only recently returned Australia, ana I cannot think we ahold be justified in summoning hin halg round the world by air for only 5 or 4 daya gonferencs in a fortnipht's timo. He would no doubt like invitation to join ter Cabinet but this raises many complications about other Dominions and size of the War inet. Although he is unheppy in Australie there is no other men of comparable eminence and knowledge there. 2. I doubt whether gmuts can be away from South Africa for so long, and also whether we should press hia to dangers of flight through Mediterrancan. 3+ I hope to sce Fraser before he leaves but I ao not think he should be prosaed to stay till end of month. 4, Is 14 not mech better to let Mackenzie King come alone treating him with all the ceremony extended to Menzies and Prasez. 5. Delay in anwar due to difficulty of breaking W/? silonce with meny U-boats about.