10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 579 St George and st George IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF THE EIGHTEENTH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT IN AND FOR BREVARD COUNTY, FLORIDA CASE NO 05-2005-DR-022015-XXXX-XX IN RE The Marriage of “™“" NANCY ST GEORGE, 2 Petitioner/Wife, 2 3 and = = vet op £ JAMES ST GEORGE, . i --5 » @ Respondent /Husband 3 / TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS VOLUME IV (Pages 579 = 777) Date Taken November 30, 2006 Place 2725 Judge Fran Jamieson Way viera, Florida Before Honorable Morgan Laur Reinman This cause came on to be heard at the time and place aforesaid, when and where the following proceedings were reported by JULIANA M_ CARY, FPR Court Reporter Notary Public, State of Florida at Large KING REPORTING & VIDEO CONFERENCE CENTER, INC 14 Suntree Place, Suite 101 Melbourne Viera, Florida 32940 ‘Case # 05-2005-DR-022015-XXXX XK (i iH 010640793, King Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kingreporting com ORIGINAL wh10 ql 12 13 14 15 16 7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 St George and St George APPEARANCES APPEARANCES FOR THE PETITIONER/WIFE DIANA FIGUEROA, ESQUIRE 2111 Dairy Road Melbourne, Florida 32940 APPEARANCES FOR THE RESPONDENT/HUSBAND DOUGLAS D MARKS, ESQUIRE BOYD & MARKS, L LC 709 S Harbor City Boulevard, Suite 230 Melbourne, Florida 32901 King Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kingreporting com 580 d a10 1. 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 St George and St George on 3 INDEX OF PROCEEDINGS PAGE NO PETITIONER/WIFE'S WITNESSES JAMES ST GEORGE (Resumed) Direct Examination by Ms Figueroa 587 RESPONDENT/HUSBAND'S WITNESSES JEFFREY M WILLIAMSON, Ph D Direct Examination by Mr Marks 607 Cross-Examination by Ms Figueroa 692 King Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kingreporting comSt George and St George 582 y a INDEX OF PETITIONER/WIFE'S EXHIBITS 2 | No DESCRIPTION MARKED RECEIVED 3] 12 Financial Affidavit 600 600 4] 13 2001 Tax Return 602 602 5 } 14 2004 Tax Return 603 603 6 INDEX OF RESPONDENT/HUSBAND'S EXHIBITS 7 | NO DESCRIPTION MARKED RECEIVED ey i Dr Wallaamson's Report 622 622 10 1 12 alk} 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 King Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kangreporting com10 ql 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 1g 20 21 22 23 24 25 St George and St George 583 (Proceedings continued from Volume ITI ) BE IT REMEMBERED, that the following proceedings were resumed on Thursday, November 30th, at 9 00 with appearances as previously noted THE COURT We're here for the third day of the nonjury trial for St George versus St George Is there any preliminary matters that need to be addressed before we begin? MR MARKS Yes, Your Honor Dr Williamson was under my subpoena and instructed to be here -- Monday we instructed him to be here at 9 00 this morning He's not here According to his office, he received a fax from Ms Figueroa's office for him to be here Friday morning That was my subpoena And as a result, we're trying to locate him now and get him here But our instructions to his office were quite clear under my subpoena to have be here 9 00 today We discussed that the whole time I sequenced everything I was going to do in terms of other professionals and other witnesses under the assumption that he was going to be here this morning at 9 00 And I just object strenuously to people instructing witnesses under my subpoena when they should be here King Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kingreporting com10 a 12 13 14 15 16 7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 St George and St George oo THE COURT You're saying that there was some sort of correspondence from Ms Figueroa's office that said to be here Friday? MR MARKS That's what I'm being told by Dr Williamson's office THE COURT Ms Figueroa, do you ~~ MS FIGUEROA I have no knowledge Absolutely not an 1ota of knowledge of this MR MARKS I got a fax from Ms Figueroa's assistant saying that I agreed to something about Dr Williamson being here Friday under there subpoena, my subpoena, and using my tame and his tame And I wrote a back a letter immediately saying I didn't agree to anything MS FIGUEROA I need a moment to confer with my paralegal I have no knowledge THE COURT If you will do that at this tame, please If you would, step outside so I can't hear you (Off the record ) MR MARKS He'll be here in 20 minutes I'm told MS FIGUEROA Your Honor, I think I'm ready to respond THE COURT Okay King Reportang & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kangreporting comSt George and St George 585 MS FIGUEROA My understanding, my paralegal has informed me that Dr Williamson contacted our office claiming, again, this 1s, I guess, total hearsay, claiming that he wasn't getting anywhere with their office, and he wanted to try to coordinate a schedule so that we're not calling him on a different day than I guess Mr Marks was And the conversations occurred between my paralegal and his paralegal Mc Marks and I had no conversations on this No E-mails between the two of us Between the two paralegals And they were coordinating with Dr Wallaamson with his schedule to come on Friday I had nothing to do with this I guess Mr Marks had nothing to do with this Just. coordinating witnesses And my paralegal believed there was an agreement from his paralegal saying it would be okay to come on Friday, because that's what Dr Williamson was requesting This all came from Dr Walliamson Not our office, not Mr Marks' office Apparently when she faxed over the confirmation, Mr Marks, apparently as he represented, got wind that he said he didn't agree sent it right to Dr Williamson said, no, I'm not King Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kangreporting comSt George and St George 2 an agreement to that Dr Williamson is under has subpoena There 1s no reason for, 1f he's under subpoena not to be here per his subpoena I'm expecting him to be here this morning as well So other than the two paralegals trying to coordinate witnesses, I don't know anything further THE COURT It's my understanding Dr Wallaamson 1s going to be here in 20 minutes? MR MARKS Yes That's what we're told THE COURT Actually my court clerk just told me my judicial -- that's what, my judicial assistant just sent us an E-mail and said that as well MR MARKS For future reference, you know, when somebody writes a letter, a fax -- not Ms Figueroa When somebody writes a fax that it's my understanding that Mr Marks has agreed to arrange wath Dr Wallaamson to testify on December 1st 2006, and that person has not even talked to me, I don't thank that's the way to go about these things MS FIGUEROA According to Ms Figueroa, she talked to your paralegal MR MARKS Wathin minutes of getting that fax King Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kingreporting com10 at 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 St George and St George 587 they had a letter saying absolutely not THE COURT Ms Figueroa has confirmed that That 1s was everyone's understanding he was going to be here this morning Because he won't be here for a few more minutes, 1s there something else you can do Mr Marks, or can we continue with the direct examination of Dr St George to try to get him done? Is there something else we can do? MR MARKS Ms Figueroa can continue with her examination THE COURT Can you try to do that? MS FIGUEROA Yes THE COURT I know that I'm making you swatch gears pretty quick here Dr St George, if you will, raise your right hand, and my clerk wall swear you in WHEREUPON JAMES ST GEORGE, called as a witness by the Petitioner/Wife, wa: sworn by the Clerk and in answer to questions propounded, testified as follows THE WITNESS Yes s duly THE COURT Sir, 1f you will, step up to the watness chair, please Ms Figueroa, 1f you need a moment, King Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kangreporting com that's10 11 12 13 4 15 16 17 18 1g 20 21 22 23 24 25 St George and St George 588 fine DIRECT EXAMINATION (Resumed) (James St George) BY MS FIGUEROA Q Mr St George, I believe where we left was regarding personal property I asked you, since the separation, have the two of you agreed on the division of personal property? A There was an agreement through mediation Q And are you still, and you are stall in agreement with that, whatever it was stipulated to at mediation? A Yes Q Are there any other matters of personal property that you are requesting that was not agreed to? A No THE COURT Dr St George, I know there was some other issues that came up after that agreement was made Have all those matters been resolved and taken care of and that 1ssue is no longer something that the Court needs to address? THE WITNESS No It still as an issue, Your Honor MS FIGUEROA Sorry? THE COURT I don't know 1f you were the attorney when some of that stuff came up, but 1t King Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kingreporting comSt George and St George 589 was my understanding there was some issues that were still not resolved MS FIGUEROA Judge, 1f we're talking about family photographs that belong to Mr St George that have nothing to do with the marriage, I don't belaeve my client 1s going to have an objection to returning those So we'll agree to that THE WITNESS I don't understand why I haven't received them two years later THE COURT Well, I'll put this in there, and I’11 put in a final judgment and order accordingly THE WITNESS It's just not photographs, Your Honor It's other personal effects and items BY MS FIGUEROA Q Can you tell me a list of personal effects? A The videos of my daughter from a prior marriage Split photos of our son She took all the photos of our son ‘They were supposed to be copied, and I was supposed to receive copies of all the photographs and the cost associated Q Photographs of Jamie and videos of Katie? A Videos of Jamie Q Videos of Jamie, too? A Correct She holds childhood mementoes of mine that are irreplaceable She has a certificate from King Reporting & Vadeo Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kangreporting com \10 1 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 St George and St George $90 when I was like 13 years old rifle club when I was a kad She has my Eagle Scott medal that I've never seen again I mean, I don't know what other personal other photos she has MS FIGUEROA Your Honor, for purposes of this, my client will stipulate that any videos of Jamae can be copied, shared, any videos of Katie can be, again, copied and provided back to Mr -- THE COURT What does the agreement provide wath regard to who will pay the cost of copying? THE WITNESS Divided THE COURT Then it appears that has been addressed Okay I'm going to put a date in here So 1f at's not done, I'll put a date in here BY MS FIGUEROA Q Is there anything else besides those items? A There was some premarital property that she has A rug of mine that was bought before getting married Q A rug? A It's a red Oriental rug Other minor effects I provided Mr Marks a list of this ages ago I mean, af you folks are willing to work this out -- I don't have the list with me right today I can bring it in tomorrow King Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kingreporting com KS25 St George and St George Sol 6 That's fane, 2f you want to do that, MS FIGUEROA Judge, I don't mind doing that, working that out with Mr Marks instead of taking up court time with that THE COURT Let's try to bring that last tomorrow so we get it resolved And if there's anything you want to put on the record, I'll be happy to MS FIGUEROA We'll bring both lists THE COURT That will be good THE WITNESS Please do BY MS FIGUEROA Q Mr St George, isn't it true that Nancy St George gave you $25,000 she had received from her oldest daughter's settlement? A It was money she contributed to the marriage I believe August of 1999 August '997 Correct And for a period of time during the marriage, lived with you, correct? Correct. And she paid rent each month? For a short period of time she did Q With regard to her separate daughter Holly, King Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kangreporting com10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 St George and St George ae \ you caused her to have cosmetic surgery on her ears? A I caused it? I paid for at She had ears that went out too far She was a young woman, and I paid for the surgery to pin them back Q And you took her to have it done? A Correct Q And there 1s an issue about attorney's fees for a previous modification with her previous husband Are you still requesting that? A I paid all her fees for her prior modification of child support, and she was awarded attorney fees Q I'm asking 1£ you are requesting it? A I consider 1t a marital asset Q The attorney fees? ie yes Q And asn't at true that you have requested Nancy to sue him for child support? A Well, she did That was the modification for support Q Wasn't that based on your request? A Well, she wasn't receiving any support Yes Yes I mean, it was mutual He was not pay his support for quite some time Over two years Q Wath regard to marital debts, can you tell me any marital debts that exist that are issues for this King Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kingreporting comSt George and St George $93 Is A There's the two cars, and the mortgage has been resolved, and the taxes Q Let's talk about the two cars Would it fair to say you agreed that you keep a car in your possession, she keeps a car in her possession? A Her car loan 1s in my name only Q How much 1s owed on that car loan? Well, farst, let's state for the record, type of car 1s 1t? THE COURT That would be helpful for me A Her car, a 2003 Acura MDX It's an SUV BY MS FIGUEROA Q And she has driven this throughout the marriage? A She has and post separation And how much money 1s owed on that vehicle? A I have it on the desk there It's on my recent financial statement 1 don't have the exact figure off the top of my head Q So it as accurately reflected on your financial statement? A Correct The most recent one, which 1s a few What kind of car do you drive? King Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kangreporting com10 ai 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 St George and St George 594 lw A 2003 BMW M3 THE COURT Can you say that again? 2003 -- A BMW M3 BY MS FIGUEROA @ According to your financial affidavit, you have the Acura MDX at 10,941 still owed on the car? A As of probably last week Q And the BMW M3 1s at 13,8257 A Same date Q Now, you haven't filed taxes since 2001, 1s that correct? A Correct Q And you -- A Taxed have been paid but not filed Q In fact, you're expecting a refund, are you not? AT have no idea honestly Q Now, you purchased during the separation a new home at Deerwood Trail? A Yes © How much did you pay for that home? A Total price was 1,050,000 Q And that's the home that you live now with Sonya and her son? A Yes King Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kingreportang comQ St George and St George 595 Is thas home titled in your name only? Both of our names It's an Sonya's name, too, jorntly? Yes How much money did you put down for this home? I put $100,000 down And where did that money come from? The sale of our marital home Was there any other monies added to She contributed 4,000 maybe And you also have a student loan, correct? That's now paid off And that's not an issue That's something -- That's premarital anyway Now, child support, with regard to child support, you are currently paying a little over $1,800 to your first wife for Katie? current Q A 1,841 Correct Are you current in that child support amount? I thank I owe her a month or two, but largely You are behind a month or two? Yes She's very flexible I send her a check and she cashes 1t three months later She's a physician King Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kingreporting com10 1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 St George and St George 596 \t as well We have a very loose agreement there Q But for the record, you are two or three months behind Not that she didn't cash a check, you didn't pay, correct? A I was two months behind I thank I mailed her a check last week sometime I'm current -- as far as I'm concerned, I'm largely current Q Now, wath regards to your current support to Nancy, are you current in that? A I should be Q Isn't at true you haven't paid in April 2006? A No, that's absolutely incorrect Q And you didn't pay this month? AI don't know about this month with everything that's been going on, but I have a cancel check for April Q How much money do you pay per month? A I pay her $2,000 in child support and $850 for temporary alimony Q And when as the last tame you paid that to Nancy St George? A I honestly thought I sent her a check this month If I didn't, I certainly sent her a check last month Q Now, you have a life insurance policy? King Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kangreporting com10 qa 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 2. 22 23 24 25 St George and St George oa Yes, I do Through work Q And you have a policy -- the beneficiary, 18 at Katie, $250,000 for Katie? A Could you tell me what insurance you are specifically referring to? Q lafe insurance A T have life insurance through my employer I do not have a separate policy Q And who are the beneficaaries? A They are divided throughout Katie, my son, Q And that's a, 1s that a 20-year term policy? A No It's through my employer, which would make it a yearly term policy while I'm employed @ You no longer have the New York life Insurance Company policy? A I do not Q How much as the one through your employer? A I think at's -- I'm not sure exactly, the exact figure I think it's around a million THE COURT You paid for that or did they pay for that? THE WITNESS I believe -- THE COURT Wall you go home tonight and check L to see 1f you wrote a check for the child support 19 King Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kingreporting comSt George and St George 598 Qo and alimony? THE WITNESS For which? THE COURT For this month, for November THE WITNESS I can check online and see THE COURT I assume that's what we're talking about Right, Ms Figueroa, for November? MS FIGUEROA For November and -- she's receiving -- she didn't receive any money 1n April MRS ST GEORGE But that's a 30-day late check MS FIGUEROA Don't talk to each other We can check that and resolve an amount THE WITNESS Certainly THE COURT If the November hasn't been made at needs to be paid And December 1s due THE WITNESS I'll take care of it, Your Honor BY MS FIGUEROA Q Do you have any other accounts with Health First? Deferred compensation plan, 401(k), anything I haven't already mentioned in your previous questioning? A No mean, they provide a long-term disability benefit @ Not long-term disability, but I'm talking about deferred compensation King Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kingreporting comSt George and St George 2 U No Any other type of retirement? No And you are presently covering medical for Jamie? Yes And Nancy Is there a separate amount for the child? Yes There 1s -- I could pay for myself and one other individual Q How much 1s 1t for yourself and one other andividual? A I believe around -- I don't have the exact figures with me Actually, it's in my financial statement, I think But $100 ballpark every two weeks Q On your financial affidavit? THE COURT Let's go ahead and introduce his financial affidavit into evidence, if there isn't any objection MR MARKS No objection MS FIGUEROA The only problem with this, I'm not going -- I can use the one in the court file Do we have an extra one though? MR MARKS There's an updated one Tt might not be -- THE WITNESS I have a copy in the file folder King Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kangreporting com10 an 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 St George and St George oud right there MS FIGUEROA They filed it on the 27th THE COURT Yeah I don't have 4/23 It hasn't made my file yet Can we go ahead and introduce that copy? Any objection? MR MARKS November 27th, no objection THE COURT If we need to make you a copy, just let us know It will be received as -- Petitioner's next numbered exhibit I think is 11 right? 12 Number 12 (Petitioner's Exhibit 12 was marked and admitted into evidence ) A To answer your question, I believe that myself and one other individual 1s approximately $100 And family 1s $150 and change THE COURT Do you want to look at this? THE WITNESS This may reflect monthly, Your Honor THE COURT Actually, I'm more concerned about monthly, so BY MS FIGUEROA Q I'm showing an amount $235 for monthly health insurance Is that for you only? A That's what I'm trying to sort out myself King Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kangreportang comSt George and St George 601 think that would represent two individuals I think that 235 represents myself and one I pay for Mrs St George @ Do you know what your total monthly cost 1s for health -- A I have 214 listed under the child So I can only assume the total would be the combination of those two numbers Q So 214, to your knowledge, 1s the separate cost for the child? A I guess That's the numbers I calculated, so I would have to say yes THE COURT If you no longer have to cover Mrs St George, that 235, 1s that divided in half or how 1s that or do you know? THE WITNESS Well, I assume I would still be covering my son THE COURT I'm not talking about the the child I'm only talking about the 235 you said you believed represented yourself other person THE WITNESS That doesn't make sense that for one individual -- for two it's approximately $100 every two weeks So for one individual -- no, for two individuals 1t should be King Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kingreporting com10 11 12 13 14 15 16 7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 St George and St George oo Ry around 235 So I guess that number just represents myself And then -- I mean, I have the benefits packet THE COURT There's usually a one-page sheet that addresses all those, answers all those questions Why don't you look for that for tomorrow THE WITNESS I have it at home MS FIGUEROA I think, without objection, I'd like to antroduce the 2001 tax return of the parties And then, without objection, I'm antacipatang the W-2 for 2004 I'm almost finished wath him as well MR MARKS Can I just tell Dr Williamson the rule has been invoked? THE COURT Dr Williamson, you'll have to wait outside for a few more minutes You can leave your box The 2001 joint tax return? MS FIGUEROA Yes THE COURT So without objection, that can be antroduced into evidence MR MARKS The tax return for 2001, yes, Your Honor THE COURT It would be received as King Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kangreporting comSt George and St George 603 Petitioner's Exhibit Number 13 (Petitioner's Exhibit 13 was marked and admitted into evidence ) MS FIGUEROA The next exhibit, Your Honor without objection to Dr St George's W-2 for 2004, that will be recezved MR MARKS No objection THE COURT That will be received as Petitioner's Number 14 (Petitioner's Exhibit 14 was marked and admitted into evidence ) BY MS FIGUEROA Q Dr St George, you didn't provide W-2s for 2002, 2003 or 2005, 1s that correct? A Well, Ms Fagueroa, 2002 and 2003 were taken by Mrs St George when she took possession of the home Your office provided those W-2s to us 2005, those W-2s were not requested, and I don't believe they were provided I don't recall, to tell you the truth That's post separation Q Do you know what your annual income was for 2005? $410,000 1s my salary 4107 I don't know the W-2 offhand King Reporting & Vadeo Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kangreporting com10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 1g 20 21 22 23 24 25 St George and St George eee ww Q What about 2006, 1s that the same? A Same salary Q With regard to attorneys fees, can you tell me how much you have paid Mr Marks? MR MARKS Object, Your Honor I think what 1s relevant 1s exclusive of the injunction proceeding I provided an affidavit backing out the injunction THE COURT I'1l1 sustain the objection If he paid him any fees associated with the injunction, because under -- there's no authority to award attorney fees for the injunction proceeding Then he, I don't know af he can separate that out, but he needs to back that out BY MS FIGUEROA Q With the exception of the injunction hearing -- well, how much have you agreed to pay Mr Marks per hour? $235 an hour? MR MARKS Started at 240, became 250 THE WITNESS I'll defer to Mr Marks MR MARKS I'll represent to the Court the representation started at 240 At some point at the end of 2005, I believe it changed to 250 MS FIGUEROA You got more expensive MR MARKS Yeah King Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kingreporting com10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 St George and St George oe | BY MS FIGUEROA Q Are you able to separate out the injunction from the total fees you paid to date? A Ms Figueroa, I get a bill, I pay it Mr Marks handles, did that accounting I have no idea what those numbers are MR MARKS I'm getting a copy of the affidavit, Your Honor It's in the order of, magnitude of 50 to 55,000, I believe, for this case and 8,000 backed out, 1f my memory serves me correct BY MS FIGUEROA Q Assuming that to be correct, where did you get the monies to pay for your fees A My salary MR MARKS Your Honor, it's 48,172 50 between May 10th, 2005 and November 15th, 2006 THE COURT May 10th, 2005, November 15th, 2006 MR MARKS And backed out for the injunction was $8,375 THE COURT So that's the 48 plus the 8 would be total MR MARKS Total for everything For this would 48 King Reportang & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kingreporting comSt George and St George 606 3 THE COURT Okay A To complete my answer, I have $57,000 and change left over from the equity of the sale of the marital home BY MS FIGUEROA Q How much? A Around 57,000 left over from my sale after down payment on my new home MS FIGUEROA I don't have any further questions at this time of Mr St George THE COURT Mr Marks, do you want to reserve on your cross? MR MARKS Yes I'd like go get to Dr Williamson THE COURT Are you going to do a cross with ham or are you going to do that with your direct? MR MARKS I'll just do it with my direct THE COURT Dr St George, you can step down at this time Then 1f we'll bring in Dr Williamson Dr Wallaamson, 1f you wall, remain standing for a moment Raise your right hand, and the clerk will swear you in WHEREUPON JEFFREY M WILLIAMSON, Ph D King Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kingreporting comSt George and St George 607 called as a witness by the Respondent/Husband, was duly sworn by the Clerk and in answer to questions propounded, testified as follows THE WITNESS I do THE COURT Please step forward and have a seat in the witness chair THE WITNESS Thank you, Your Honor And I apologize with the problem today THE COURT Apparently there was some confusion about whether you were supposed to be here today or tomorrow THE WITNESS That 1s correct THE COURT You're here, and that's all I care about I understand why you don't have a suit on THE WITNESS That's all part of 1t Thank you But I do apologize to the Court the delay, and your time 1s valuable THE COURT I appreciate you gettang here promptly Trial tame in this case has been real precious, so I appreciate you accommodating us Okay, Mr Marks DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR MARKS Q Could you state your name, please A Jeffrey Michael Williamson King Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kangreporting com10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 St George and St George oe dv » Oo > 0 > 0 > D0 BO > 2 Q capacity? A believe Q A And your address? 1209 Admiralty Boulevard, Rockledge, Florida What 1s your occupation? I'm a clinical psychologist How long have you practiced that profession? Since 1991 Do you have a CV with you today? No, I do not I'm sorry, sir Where are you employed currently? 1209 Admiralty Boulevard And what 1s the name of your employer? Jeffrey Williamson, Ph D How long have you been employed in that I've been an private practice since 1995, I And what are your duties and responsibilities? Primarily, I provide assessment, evaluation, and psychotherapy for children, adolescence, and their families adults Q Some portion of my practice 1s also seeing And do you have an area of specialization, and if so, what 1s 1t? A Q It would be child clinical psychology can you tell us your educational background? King Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kingreporting comSt George and St George 609 Al A I have a Ph D an clinical psychology with a specialization in child clinical from the University of Missouri, Columbia, Missouri I dad an internship at the University of Kansas, Department of Psychiatry Left graduate school and practiced in Lafayette, Indiana at a place called the Arnett Clinic I've had a number of faculty appointments as adjunct faculty University of Central Florida, Rollins College, Florida Tech, Webster, Purdue Do you hold any professional licenses? Yes, I do And whach professional licenses do you hold? Q A Q A Psychology Q And do you have any certifications? A No, sir Q Have you had experience in the past in performing custody evaluations 1n connection wath cases before the court? Yes, sir Is that a regular part of your practice? No How often have you done that? I've probably done 15 to 20 full custodial evaluations Q Have you been admitted as an expert in that King Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kangreporting comst George and st George a AQ regard in the past? A Yes, sir Q When you do a custody evaluation, 15 1t typical for you to prepare a report? A Yes, sir Q Were you asked to perform a custody evaluation an this case? Yes, sir Did you do so? Yes, sir Over what period of time? The first appointment would have occurred, I believe, on March the 15th Last appozntment would have been in October Q Was that all in 20067 2006 Yes, sir THE COURT What 1s the first appointment date? March? THE WITNESS March the 15th THE COURT And the last appointment? THE WITNESS I believe October the 24th THE COURT Okay Thank you BY MR MARKS Q Did your evaluation include a psychological King Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kangreporting comSt George and St George us evaluation of Jamie St George, James St George, and Nancy St George? A Yes, sir Q Dad 1t also include conclusions in review of the criteria for determining parental responsibility and primary residence? A Yes, sir Q@ And did you prepare a report as to each of those subjects? A Yes, sir Q And was the record in this case prepared in connection wath your function as custody evaluator? A Yes, sir Q And was the report prepared while the results of your evaluation were fresh in your mind? A Yes, sir Q And was 1t prepared by you based upon -- first of all, you conducted interviews in this case? That 15 correct You performed psychological testing? That 1s correct MS FIGUEROA I'm going to object to leading THE COURT Sustained BY MR MARKS Q Tell us what you did generally in connection King Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kangreporting comSt George and St George 612 with the preparation of this report, A I interviewed all of the parties I observed parent/child interaction I performed psychological testing I reviewed records Q And was your report based upon those actavities? A Yes, sir MR MARKS Your Honor, at this time, I'd tender into evidence the report consisting of the three psychological evaluations We can mark it as Exhibit A for identification And what would be referred to as the recommendations MS FIGUEROA Objection Hearsay, Your Honor And 1t doesn't fall under any exception under 6120 Only thing excepted under 6120 1s social studies It's actual double hearsay because it's also referring to other records, statements, other collateral source statements, other cases It has multiple hearsay THE COURT Mr Marks, your response MR MARKS The hearsay exception 1s the business record exception contained in 90 803(6 Give me just a minute 90 803, which are the hearsay exceptions Records of regularly conducted King Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kangreporting com 3St George and St George 613 45 business activity, a memorandum, report, record or data compilation in any form of acts, events, conditions, opinion, diagnosis made at or near for information transmitted by personal knowledge and kept in the course of the ordinary regularly conducted business actavaty, and 1f it was the regular practice of that business activity to make such recommendation and/or report Now, that's number one I have a case, Jackson versus State, which 1s at 413 So 2d 112 where this was a criminal prosecution, and the ussue before the Court was the value of certain property Over appellant's objection, the State made a request to call as a witness the person who had appraised a boat, and then this wasn't even the person who had made the appraisal report But they testified that this appraisal report was in their file, 1t was part of their file, and that it qualified as an exception under business records And the Court said -- there was a discovery ussue as to whether the report had been disclosed We said the state should have been better prepared to prove value We feel the proffer testimony was proper under either section 90 803(6) (a), which 1s one I was referring to, or subsection 8, which King Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kingreporting comSt George and St George o14 db refers not relevant for our consideration, public records Moreover, I would cite to the Court that there was a stipulation in this case as to not only the appointment of Dr Williamson, but there was a stipulation as to the custodian of the records not being necessary in this case In citing Earhart on evidence under the section of 803 6, chapter 8, the Court said -- or citing the case of Kelly versus State Farm 727 Second, parties stipulate business records may be admitted without the testimony of the records custodian The records can be admitted under 90 803(6) without following the witness to antroduce the foundation for admission under business record exception Another case, Phillips versus Fiera The parties stipulated the records custodian was not necessary Medical records were admissible under 90 803(6) There was a stapulation in this case that record custodians were not required Therefore, this record 1s admissible, you know, in terms of hearsay under the business record exception Moreover, this was an appointed evaluator This 1s not a retained expert This was an King Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kingreporting comSt George and St George or 5 evaluator appointed in stipulation of the attorneys for the parties And I would submit that implicit an that order was that he was going to prepare a report and that report was going to be presented to the Court The hearsay which may be in -- quote, hearsay which may be contained within the report, of course, experts can rely on hearsay to the extent at 1s something upon which they customarily rely You know, the evaluation reports that Dr Williamson considered, the history of the parties, all those things are, you know, the essence of what a custody evaluation is Moreover, I would admit to the Court that given the time constraints that we have in this case, that under 9602 -- I'm sorry I've got the wrong section It's the section that I cited to the Court earlier about the Court being able to control the presentation of evidence So as to avoid needless consumption of time, you know, rather than walk Dr Williamson through each part of his report, I think what was contemplated from the beginning is that he was going to do a report, 1t would be given to the Court King Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kangreporting comSt George and St George 616 This 1s not a witness -- this is not an attempt to present an expert's report who 1s not available for cross-examination The witness 1s fully available for cross-examination as to all of his conclusions, opinions, what he did, which under Earhart, 1n the cases cited by Earhart both in Florida and out of Florida 1s an important consideration in terms of the admissibility under the business record exception for an expert's report The cases described 1n this section seem to draw the distinction of first 1s he a retained expert Dr Williamson 1s not, because he 1s a court-appointed expert upon the stipulation of the parties There was a motion to appoint Dr Walliamson The fact that there was going to be a custody evaluation was court ordered The fact that 1t was Dr W1lliamson who performed it was the stapulation The other distinction that 1s drawn in the cases described 1n this section 1s whether the witness 1s available for cross-examination And a perfect example would have been 1f the IME that was submitted into evidence yesterday by Dr Robinson had simply been proffered without him having been King Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kingreporting com10 11 12 13 14 1s 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 St George and St George 617 here and have availability to cross-examine him That perhaps that would be hearsay in a case where there had not been a stipulation as to the custodian of records not being required But that stipulation precludes challenging 1t on that basis So for those reasons, I do not believe the report 1s hearsay It's critically relevant I don't think when that order was entered that 1t was anyone's intent, and at the risk of being presumptual, I think particularly the Court's, that this process would be done, that this report would be prepared, and that 1t wouldn't be looked at THE COURT Ms Figueroa, your response MS FIGUEROA Your Honor, first of all, one thing that needs to be considered for the record is your discovery cutoff was November 10th Dr Williamson failed, or Mr Marks failed to provide this report within the discovery deadline It came 1n November 13th, and another part on the 14th after 5 00 Secondly, there 1s no -- he can't overcome the hearsay Under 6120, you're talking about social evaluations, not psychological evaluations And the case law 1s pretty strong The case law is actually supports the fact this 1s total hearsay King Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kangreporting com oASt George and St George 618 Up What he's trying to do 1s get in the same thing he objected to yesterday, which is anadmissible character evidence, through the back door with this Because the report 1s, all over it 1s improper character evidence Not only that, when Dr Williamson says he has reviewed other records and so forth, you are relying on other records It's multiple hearsay It does not fall within the business exception This 1s not an appraisal This case law doesn't even apply So you have a discovery issue, a business record, an appraisal or bill or so forth There was no stipulation the psychological report would be entered into evidence Also, an your order, it's not implicit that this report would come in It doesn't state that And you can't go back now in time a year later and say oh, at was amplicit So, again, we stand strongly on our position that it 1s hearsay Admitting 1t would be a reversible error in this case, and it would also provide the Court with impermissible character evidence It would severely prejudice my client since you already made a ruling that character King Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kangreporting comSt George and St George 619 evidence 1s improper in this case So we're strongly and adamantly arguing, Your Honor, that his report not be admitted into evidence at this tame THE COURT I'm going to deny the request to omit the report I do find that 1t 1s a business record, and 1t comes under the exception under 90 803(6) Also would point out that it as customary 1n court proceedings when the Court does request a custodian evaluation that a report 2s prepared All parties in this case anticipated a report being forthcoming, and that the witness is available for cross~examination Not considering the Court -- I'm not considering the report with regard to character evidence regarding the -- I mean, regarding the parties What I'm considering the report for 1s the opinion that the expert has with regard to the custody 1ssue and what obviously at some point in tame, based on the cross-examination and direct examination, he might have to substantiate his opinion But I'm concerned -- and in his opinion he can rely on hearsay Experts can rely on hearsay What I'm concerned about 1s the opinion that King Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kingreporting com ASt George and St George ee 4a the expert will give me with regard to the ultimate assues 1n this case MS FIGUEROA Your Honor, on that basis, I would ask that before the report 1s admitted, that any reference to improper character evidence be absolutely deleted from your review That would be totally amproper for you to consider that What I'm talking to specifically 1s there is references made to my client's previous husband, the relationship between him, his children, whether or not there was visitation And although Dr Wallaamson makes a claim that he didn't rely on that, 1t's throughout his entire report, going over ussues, over occurrences that occurred in her childhood and so forth None of that which has to do with Dr St George It's all Nancy St George It's amproper character evidence I don't mind 1f you want to go ahead and consider the statutory factors or his testing and so forth, but I would like to have that part of the report stricken THE COURT Mr Marks, your response to that MR MARKS First of all, I don't believe that what 1s recited on those facts in the report 1s in any way, shape or form character evidence I think King Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kangreporting com10 11 12 13 14 15 16 a 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 St George and St George 621 when the Court reads the report and when Dr Wallaamson testifies, what you will find 1s the events, the history related by Mrs St George as to her childhood, as to events that happened in her first marriage are directly related to the diagnosis that Dr Williamson 1s making And its not to ampugn her character, and he doesn't impugn her character at all in the report He presents -- he does what he was asked to do, which 18 to present an evaluation of this andividual as it relates to the best interest of this minor child And all of those factors are directly relevant to that evaluation And these are not presented as character evidence MS FIGUEROA Your Honor, the problem with that 1s that Dr Williamson did not speak to the Previous husband Everything 1s made by the reporting by Dr St George and records Dr st George got his hands on What he just said to you that her past marriage, her past relationship anything that occurred there, that 1s improper character evidence It's exactly what you excluded with regard to Dr St George It's the same thing It works on both sides THE COURT I mean, I think the record 1s King Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kingreporting com10 11 12 13 14 16 7 18 19 20 21 23 24 25 St George and St George 622 clear that, the evidence that I excluded with regard to Dr St George I'm going to deny the objection and the report will come in as it 1s It shall be received as Respondent's Number 1 MR MARKS Yes, Your Honor (Respondent's Exhibit 1 was marked and admitted into evidence ) BY MR MARKS Q Dr Walliamson, let's talk first about the evaluation of Jamie St George Can you tell us in general what the evaluation entailed? A Clinical anterview with parents and wath child, observation of child, observation of child anteracting with parents, review of records pertinent to Jamie St George, including depositions, psychological testing Q And are the records that you reviewed detailed an your report? A I believe so Yes, sir Q@ Can you describe -- well, first of all, did you perform testing on Jamie St George? A Yes, I did Q Can you generally describe the testing you performed? King Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kangreporting com 44St George and St George eee Q And the parent/teacher inventories, does that mean you actually had a question that was directed to his teachers? A That would be correct Yes @ Can you describe the clinical interviews, what they entailed and how long they lasted? A Typically speaking, the clinical interview is focused on obtaining relevant background information Where did the child go to school, for example, grade, et cetera Developmental history, what was the child like from the tame that they were born up to the current tame And then diagnostic interview, which assess the types of behavioral problems or difficulties that the child might have Q And an summary, can you summarize what you King Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kingreporting comSt George and St George cea Qo learned about Jamie's developmental history? MS FIGUEROA Objection Hearsay He's going to summarize what he heard or what he learned It's based on hearsay THE COURT He's an expert He can hearsay MS FIGUEROA He can say he relied on those records, but he can't tell us what those records state MR MARKS I'm not asking him to recite what as in the records I'm asking him in general what he learned from those records MS FIGUEROA That's exactly what I'm saying MR MARKS That's part of the essence of the custodial evaluation That's what he has to rely on THE COURT Well, I'm going to ask you to rephrase your question BY MR MARKS Q The records that you reviewed, can you tell us what they are? A I wall do that generally And then if the Court requires, I can go through the box The records that I relied on should be in here, though I have not checked them over since they were released King Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kingreporting com10 1. 12 13 4 15 16 ad 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 St George and St George cae Q Generally, what records did you rely on? A They would consist on psychological or developmental or educationally-based evaluations that were performed at various times in the child's life Records would also include letters or correspondence that came from treating individuals to parents and so on The depositions of several of the individuals anvolved in the case was reviewed And then, of course there 1s an interview process where those particular evaluations and the issues that were going on at the tame of the child's life was discussed with both parents Q And are those the types of materials generally relied upon by experts in your field and in the field of clinical psychology? A Yes, sir A review of records regarding past psychological treatments or educational evaluations, et cetera, would be critical in attempting to understand where the child 1s currently Q And 1s 1t necessary to perform the function you were assigned in this case to review those records and form an opinion as to the general developmental history of the child? A Yes, sir Q Did you do so? King Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kangreporting comSt George and St George 626 Us Yes, I did What was that opinion? MS FIGUEROA Objection Lack of -- improper predicate THE COURT Overruled BY MR MARKS A In essence, Jame began to evidence behavioral and learning difficulties early on in his life MS FIGUEROA Your Honor, I'm sorry to interrupt Know at's not intentional But. Mr Marks 1s blocking my view I want to know if I can move it over just ~~ THE COURT Just make sure it stays You've got to make sure it stays -- okay That's fine Stays plugged in A Early on an his development, we had a child who evidenced, 1n my opinion, a significant degree of autonomy, meaning that they would explore -- MS FIGUEROA Objection Non-responsive MR MARKS He's trying to describe the developmental history MS FIGUEROA That wasn't the question THE COURT I'm trying to recall the exact question MR MARKS I think that was the question, you King Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kangreporting comSt George and St George 627 WA know, what his, after review of his records, what his opinion was as to the developmental history of the child THE COURT All right Go ahead A A child who evadenced probably above average levels of autonomy, meaning, therefore, that they were getting into things, if you will, requiring a lot of redirection, and correction, and limit setting, which would not be unusual for a young toddler, a child that age But I would submit to this Court that perhaps there was more of that necessary given the impulsivity and hyperactavity that we will talk about later We have a child who does have significant problems with disinhibition and impulse control That was 1n evidence early on in his development We had a child who was suffering from a significant language delay, particularly expressive language So he had difficulty communicating his needs verbally We also had a child who has and continues to have significant problems with frustration tolerance When satuations occur where he 1s not getting his way, where tasks are difficult for him and he 1s troubling with the mastery of a particular task, when demands are being placed on his behavior, immaturity demands demands for learning and et cetera, and he 1s not King Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kingreporting comSt George and St George eae eh getting his way or he has to do what he doesn't want to do, these are the kind of situations that typically elicit frustration Correction of the child's behavior, limit setting, telling the child no 1s another interactional context 1n which frustration occurs Bottom line 1s early in his development, by the time he's a toddler and entering into preschool, we already have significant problems with impulsivity and disinhibition, poor frustration tolerance, and expressive language delays Q Was that reported by both parents? A Yes Both parents indicated that these were the types of problems that the child was exhibiting, and the records would reflect that the child was exhibiting these type of problems MS FIGUEROA Objection to what the records reflect Again, being hearsay MR MARKS Do I have to lay that predicate every time? I mean, he's testified -- THE COURT Overruled BY MR MARKS Q Did you make behavioral observations of the child? A King Reporting & Vadeo Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kangreporting comSt George and St George 629 Q What did those behavioral observations entail? A If at 1s acceptable, I will look at the report I generated Q Sure A That he indeed was restless, disinhibited -- MS FIGUEROA Objection to him reading from his report THE COURT If you could look at your report to refresh your recollection, then turn it over please A ‘That's just fine He was restless. disinhibited, had articulation problems BY MR MARKS Q Now, what does oriented times three mean? Oriented to person, place, and tame Q And was this child oriented times three? A Yes, sir Q Was he cooperative with the evaluation procedures? Yes, he was How was his spontaneous speech? It was fluent, and coherent, and organized some degree of off-task verbalizations now ves 1: Mrs St George Nancy St George? » 90 That's correct Now, dad you form an opinion as to whether Dr King Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kangreporting com10 ql 12 13 14 15 16 7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Massachusetts MS FIGUEROA Objection Hearsay THE COURT Overruled MS FIGUEROA He didn't do his own testing THE COURT Overruled That goes to the weight I'll give 1t as opposed to whether he's allowed to give his opinion He's an expert He can rely on hearsay, and testing, and reports from other individuals MS FIGUEROA Improper predicate and lack of foundation to even render an opinion on that THE COURT I haven't heard the rest of his answer He hasn't given his opinion He looked up to give his opinion So overrule the objection BY MR MARKS @ Did you look at or consider in forming an opinion anything other than Dr Plaud's -- A Yes, I did Q Can you tell us what that was? A My interview with Dr St George, my interview with Mrs St George, my personality or personality —_ that_was conducted None of those things would Q Did you form an opinion as to whether Dr St Kang Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kingreporting com10 cae 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 23 24 25 659 St George and St George MS FIGUEROA Your Honor, I'm sorry I want to go back and move to strike his answer He had said there's no evidence of a pattern of sexual THE COURT Overruled BY MR MARKS Q Did you form an opinion based upon the psychological evaluation that you did in this case as to whether Dr St George was capable of providing the nurturing, warmth, and emotional responsiveness that his child needs? A Yes, sir Q What did you rely upon in forming that opinion? A That would be observations of his interaction with Jame, personality profile, developmental hastory, clinical interview And the answer to that 1s I do believe he would have the ability to provide adequate King Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kangreporting com ShSt George and st George ns) emotional responsiveness and support to his son Q Now, during your evaluation, obviously you spoke with Mrs St George? A Yes, sir Q Dad you speak with Mrs St George about her perceptions of the manner in which Dr St George disciplined Jame? A Yes, sir Q And what did she indicate to you? A She had concerns about Dr St George overreacting and punishing Jamie in an overly aggressive manner Q Other than that report by Mrs St George, in your evaluation, was there, 1n your opinion, any other indicator of that? A No, sir Indirectly speaking, the personality testing could suggest that Dr St George may have a difficulty shifting sets, may be somewhat rigid, 1f you will, 1n his problem-solving So if, and I have no evidence to support this In fact, Jamie was clear my interview with him that parents utilize time-out restriction of privilege primarily But if, indeed, his primary disciplinary method was corporal punishment or spanking, that coupled wath a rigid, inflexible style of relating, coupled with King Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kingreporting com10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 St George and St George 661 Uy = anger, hostility that 1s repressed or overcontrolled all of those factors could conspire together to lead to some episode of overreactivity But now we're talking about a lot of conditional factors here that would have to all be an place, 1f you will, for that kind of thing to happen Q Other than Mrs St George's report, was there anything in your evaluation that suggested that those types of behaviors had actually occurred? A No, sir The only report I had of an overreaction in an angry and impunitive way was from Mrs St George Q Now, did Mrs St George report to you anything about Dr St George's interaction in terms of how he treated -- A Yes Q What did she report to you? A I believe she indicated that Dr St George became angry and threw or punted a cat, I believe Q Was there anything in your evaluation which suggested that Dr St George had a propensity to cruelty to animals? A No, sir MS FIGUEROA Objection Again, improper predicate King Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kangreporting comSt George and St George 662 THE COURT You know, I'm so familiar with these tests I mean, I know what tests he did know what the tests score -- I mean, I'm going to overrule the objection BY MR MARKS Q = I'm sorry, sir A I believe the question was 1s there anything an the testing which suggests a propensity or tendency to be cruel to animals, and I believe my answer was no Q And I meant to ask testing or anything else in your evaluation other than Mrs St George's report? A No, sir Q IM your history or discussions with Mrs St George, did she make the contention that Dr St George -- or did she discuss any interest he had an fire or those types of things? A Yes, she did Q What did she report to you? A I'll need to refer to my evaluation, 1f that's okay I£ you happen to know where that 1s, that might be helpful to me Because I don't know if it was in his report or 1f 1t had to do with Jamie Excuse me I think I found it Would it be on page 6 of Jamie's report? Again, the answer 1s yes she did report that he w| King Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kangreporting comSt George and St George 663 Qh Q And did anything in your evaluation other than her report indicate that? MS FIGUEROA Objection, Your Honor Again, I'm going to keep objecting He did one test, an a determine whether It's Just a report -- 1t would just call for speculation MR MARKS The question was not limited to the MMPI It was anything in his evaluation THE COURT Okay Overruled A It would be nothing in Dr St George's personality testing or an interview or developmental history that would suggest that he would have a significant problem in that area BY MR MARKS Q Now, did you make a recommendation to family therapy in this case? A Yes, I did Q What do you mean by family therapy? A In the treatment of children and adolescents at 1s critical for the clinician to work with parents on how to organize their responses around the child's behavioral problems, and also how to promote developmental negotiation, and healthy self-esteem problem-solving, et cetera King Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kangreporting com10 qi 12 13 14 15 16 17 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 St George and st George oe YY And one of the issues we have in this case that 1s an artifact, at least in part, by having a custody evaluation, 1s that the parents are having difficulties cooperating and supporting one another in regards to parenting tasks And research 1s very clear on the issue, which 1s that a number one predictor of emotional and behavioral problems in children -- MS FIGUEROA Objection as to research -~ I'm sorry Objection as to what research states as being hearsay THE COURT Overruled Overruled A Emotaonal research on children and emotional and behavioral problems 15 robust in the finding that difficulties and conflict and contention in the co-parenting relationship 1s a primary predictor of emotional and behavioral problems in children Therefore, one of the tasks of the family therapy would be to help Dr and Mrs St George coordinate their parenting responses in regards to Jamie to have a similar, 1f you will, paradigm in terms of understanding Jame's behavioral difficulties, and then to support one another in the parenting task And so the family therapy, therefore, would certainly focus on that issue And then secondarily, helping them appreciate, for example, what 1s ADD, what King Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kingreporting com7c oS oo = asn't ADD, how do you respond appropriately to characteristics that are attention deficit characteristics How do we help -- two, how do we help Jamie develop better frustration tolerance Three, how do we eliminate behaviors, threatening, coercive, intimadatang that have a powerful effect on the social environment Being consistent with consequences and lamit setting, making appropriate maturity demands, and doing that consistently across both households Those are just some of the issues that would be addressed in that family therapy Q Based upon your evaluation, did you form an opinion as to whether Dr St George would be responsive to that type of family therapy? A I believe so Every indication I had would be Q And did you render, based upon your evaluation, any diagnosis concerning Dr St George? A Yes, sir And what was that diagnosis? A In essence what we're saying 1s that this andividual 1s not meeting the criteria for any specific King Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kingreporting com10 a. 12 13 14 15 16 1 18 19 20 22 23 24 25 St George and St George In essence, 1t would be in some sense what we would call a garbage category There are symptoms there are reactions, there are some difficulties that he's experiencing as a result of the custodial evaluation and the contentiousness of the divorce and so on But he does not meet the criterza for a mood Q Did you perform a psychological evaluation of Nancy St George? A Yes, I did Q And did you take a personal history in that regard -- well, first, can you tell us generally what that evaluation entailed? A The evaluation of Mrs St George would include clinical interview with Mrs St George, review of records to some degree, Dr St George's opinions or concerns about Mrs St George, psychological testing behavioral observations st Q And did she take the same test that Dr George did? King Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kingreporting com10 a 12 13 14 15 16 47 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 St George and St George 667 AD A Yes, she did @ So you took a personal history? A Yes, I did Q Was there anything in that personal history that you found significant from the standpoint of this evaluation? eyes) Q = What was that? MS FIGUEROA Objection, Your Honor Again, ut's going to be referencing improper character evadence THE COURT The Court has already ruled on that I'll overrule the objection A Yes, sir BY MR MARKS @ Can you tell us what that was? A Yes Mrs St George indicates that she and her sabling were victims of egregious physical abuse Q — Egregious physical abuse at whose hands? A At the hands of, her biological father was the perpetrator Also, I believe, her mother had some engaged in some abusive behavior, as according to her self-report Q Was there anything else in her personal 25 | hastory that you found significant? King Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kingreporting comSt George and St George 668 a\ Q That was the marriage before her marriage to Dr St George? A That 1s correct Yes, sir And what _did she describe to you? King Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kangreporting comSt George and st George sco QQ. MS FIGUEROA Your Honor, I'm going to object as being non-responsive The question 1s what she reported to him MR MARKS This question is how long she had suffered from depression THE COURT I thank at this point he has gone beyond the question, so I'll sustain the objection BY MR MARKS Q Dad she report to you psychiatric hospitalization? A Yes, sir Q Did she tell you when that occurred? A I believe it occurred in the 1990s I believe 1997, although my report is not specific to that Q Did she report to you outpatient mental health treatment? A Yes, sar Did she report to you medication related to MS FIGUEROA Objection Leading THE COURT Sustazned BY MR MARKS Q Dad you discuss with Mrs St George the issue of medication? A Yes, sir King Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kingreporting comSt George and St George cae Q Can you tell us what you discussed and what history she gave regarding that? MS FIGUEROA Objection Relevance THE COURT Overruled How did she present in her interviews with Did she become tearful? MS FIGUEROA Objection Leading BY MR MARKS @ Anything else that you observed? A Yes She frequently became tearful during the course of the evaluation Her emotional range or affect King Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kangreporting com11 12 13 4 15 16 7 18 19 20 21 22 24 25 BY MR MARKS an your evaluation, did you form a diagnosis concerning MS FIGUEROA Objection, Your Honor Move to strike There was no diagnosis that she is suffering from an anxiety disorder He said it appears or suggests That 1s not a proper opinion and I move to strike that And it's also non-responsive THE COURT Overruled Overruled Q Based upon your interviews, everything you did St George? A Yes, I dad King Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kingreporting com10 11 12 St George and St George diagnosis? BY MR A Yes, I did Q What were those? MS FIGUEROA I couldn't hear the last part MARKS King Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kangreporting com %6orge and And what se with Mi10 qt 12 13 14 15 16 aa 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 St George and St George 675 m8 about Mrs S$ consid restra Q A Q One of the things, for example, that we talked earlier in the report on Jamie was reluctance from tt George to put ham in time-out, for example I would submit that Mrs St George would have lerable difficulty performing that type of ant and time-out even when he was two or three Yes, I did Can you tell us what those were? King Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kangreporting com10 see 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 St George and St George ce a i A I belaeve I gave her a personality dis -- well borderline, and I believe histrionic personality traits Q Can you tell us what that means? Yeah Basically what I'm saying 1s 1 see some Now, these are the things I think pertain to | ths case There's other features as well that may or King Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kingreporting comSt George and St George 677 may not be there So I'm just going to talk about the ones that I think may pertain in this particular case The last part of that would be the tendency to idealize those individuals whom they feel are going to meet their needs, who they feel are on thear side, who they feel agree with them And then to devalue or become very angry or upset with those individuals that they don't agree with or don't feel are being appropriately supportive of them or meeting their emotional demands or perceived needs at the moment And I think we have some evidence of that, particularly in terms of providers, treatment providers with Jamie Q@ I neglected to ask you about the results of her MMPI Could you share that with us? Yes, sir A The results of the MMPI, and I need to refer King Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kingreporting com \&10 qi 12 13 14 15 16 17 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 St George and St George 678 MS FIGUEROA I'm going to make the objection to the generalities that such individuals or this testing I know you keep saying he's an expert Number one, for the record, he was never tendered as an expert Number two, he's just giving generalizations And 1t's irrelevant generally what these people test like THE COURT That's the nature of the MMP. That's what 1t provides So I'll overrule the objection And this Court, he was stipulated to by the parties as an expert He doesn't need to be tendered He was considered an expert for purposes of his opinion Go ahead A A tendency to project blame onto others and have a high need for attention and approval BY MR MARKS @ Can you form an opinion as to whether -~ well. Kang Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kangreporting com {ol10 1 12 21 22 23 24 25 St George and St George = A Yes, there is | _— A Yes Q What was your opinion? Q Did that and the conduct of her evaluation, was that of any significance to you? A Well, at certaanly was of significance in the sense of asking the question why would the MMPI not necessarily reflect what seems to be fairly obvious upon presentot on, iis 2° soon I, therefore, relegated that lack of correspondence to what was observed and what was reported as being part of that attempt to present one's self in a favorable manner Q Did you form an opinion as to whether and to what degree the conditions you diagnosed impacted on her anteraction and parenting of Jamie? A I believe that they had a significant impact on the parenting Q Can you describe that for us? A Yes, sir Furst of all, I think there 1s a King Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kingreporting comSt George and St George 680 lob I think this 1s particularly important because where Mrs St George 1s having difficulty, in my opinion, as far as her interaction with Jamie 1s when he becomes angry and volatile and aggressive There 1s also, I believe, a tendency to King Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kingreporting com13 a4 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 St George and St George 682 wath the demands that might be -- that are, excuse me necessary to promote his individual development And this 1s an example that does not pertain to this case because I have no evidence for this, but it's to allustrate the point Which 1s, you know, a maturaty demand for the child would be, for example, you have to take a bath and brush your teeth before you go to bed And at this age, you should be able to do this on your own Well, that could require a significant degree of effort and work on the parent's behalf I have to constantly check on him or redirect him or threaten him “ ences, put Q In the course of your evaluation, did you form an opinion as to Mrs St George's level of insight into these issues? A Yes, I did Q = What was that opinion? A I don't believe that Mrs St George appreciates the degree to which her own developmental history 1s impacting her parenting responses and her perception and understanding of Jamie King Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kangreporting com 10S10 1. 12 13 14 15 16 7 18 1g 20 21 22 23 24 25 St George and St George 683 Wo Q In discussion with Mrs St George, did you discuss with her the issue of what she felt her husband's motives were 1n terms of this custody dispute? A Yes, sir Q What did she report to you? A That she felt that the primary reason that Dr St George was pursuing the custody evaluation was to hurt her Q During the course of your evaluation, did you discuss with Dr St George whether he had concerns about the emotional well-being of his son? A Yes, sir Q Did you form an opinion in connection with this evaluation as to whether Dr St George's motives were legitimate or were to hurt Mrs St George? MS FIGUEROA Objection, Your Honor That is a question that would call for speculation It's beyond this expert's opinion THE COURT The report has already been admitted, and it's in the report That's a concern And I'll overrule the objection A Yes, sir BY MR MARKS Q What was that opinion? A My opinion is that Dr St George legitimately King Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kangreportang com10 qt 12 13 14 15 16 18 19 20 2y 23 24 25 St George and St George Gh \v] as concerned about his son's emotional well-being Q And what recommendations did you make concerning Mrs St George? A I recommended that she continue her Q@ Now, as a result or in connection with your evaluation, dad you form an opinion as to Mrs St George's emotional stability? A Yes, sir Q = What 1s that opinion? A That I have concerns about her overall level of emotional stability Now, you also have a section in your evaluation concerning conclusions in review of Florida criteria concerning parental responsibility and primary residence ee ves) sic Q Can you tell us what that section of your report 1s? King Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kingreporting comSt George and St George 685 A Well, 1n essence, what I attempted to do ina relatively succinct way would be to address the specific assues that are defined by, I believe, Section 6113, having to do with custodial evaluations, or decision-making, I should say, as far as the Court is concerned Initially I tried to layout what I thought were the most, 1f you will, compelling issues that come out of the evaluations respectively I guess, 1n some sense, 1f the Court was to pay attention to nothing else and only look at one thing directly related to the custodial issues, that this would be the thing that they would be able to look at And then I layout according to the statutory factors some opinion about where I believe the individuals fall in those factors @ I won't go through each one of them, but I would like to direct your attention to the section concerning the emotional bond between the parents and the child A Yes, sir Q Dad you form an opinion as to the emotional bond between the parents and the child? A Yes, I did Q Can you tell us what that opinion 1s? A That I believe the child 1s bonded to both King Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kangreporting com J08St George and St George oe ( parents on a significant level I also believe that his primary emotional bond 1s with his mother Q Did you form an opinion as to quality of that Yes, I did What was that opinion? That 1 have concerns about some of that that there's a certain degree of powerlessness and helplessness 1n the mother/child relationship that 1s of concern Q Dad you form an opinion as to which of these parties had better emotional stability? A Yes, sir Q = What was that opinion? A It 1s my opinion that Dr St George 1s much more stable on an emotional level Q Dad you form an opinion as to which parent is more capable of providing limit setting, discipline, and objective problem-solving? MS FIGUEROA Objection Asked and answered many times THE COURT Some it was, some it wasn't King Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kingreporting com10 ql 12 13 14 15 16 7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 St George and St George 687 Effective problem solving -- you can ask him 1 don't think he specifically answered that But he has said limit settings And I don't know the third one MR MARKS Discipline, limit setting THE COURT He can answer about discipline The one you testified to in length is limit setting So you can ask about the other two BY MR MARKS Q Did you form an opinion as to which parent was more capable of providing discipline? A Yes, sir Q Can you tell us what that opinion is? A I believe that Dr St George 1s more effective in his discipline Q And what 1s objective problem-solving? A That's the ability to recognize what the child's emotional needs are without projection of one's own needs and to, therefore, accommodate or adapt one's behavior 1n order to meet that individual's needs Q Did you form an opinion as to which of the parents was better able to do that? A Yes, sir Q = What was that opinion? A Again, 1t was my opinion that Dr St George King Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kingreporting com Wo10 qt 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 1g 20 21 22 23 24 25 St George and St George 688 has a better ability to objectively assess the child's needs and to differentiate his own needs from that of the child Q In the course of your evaluation, did you form any opinions concerning the mother's willingness to encourage a close relationship between father and son? A Yes, sir Q What were those, what 1s that opinion? A That there has been some albeit mild evidence that Mrs St George may have precluded Dr St George from having a relationship with his son, particularly after the initial separation and his arrest Indirectly, there 1s concerns about the seeking out of professional opinions and so on without the consent or anvolvement of Dr St George Q In the course of your evaluation, did you form an opinion as to whether there were issues concerning the feasibility of joint decision-making in this case? A Yes, sir Q And what were those opinions? A Well, I have concerns, have great concerns about the ability of the parents to forge a cooperative alliance in joint decision-making At the same tame, I feel that 1t's imperative that some effort be made to make that happen Because I do believe that each parent \\ King Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kangreporting comSt George and St George 689 has a -- this would be one, just a research issue or empirical finding Both parents have a unique socialization influence on this child There are things that Mrs St George provides for Jamie that Dr St George 1s not as well equipped or even cannot provide and vice versa Moreover, I think that there are some unique strengths and weaknesses, 1f you will, that both parents bring into the parenting equation And that af we could somehow help them to learn to work together, 1£ you will, as a team and to complement one another's strengths and weaknesses, that you would have a parenting entity here that would be ultimately in his best interest So 1t would be a strong recommendation to at least attempt to create that co-parenting alliance and, therefore, allow for the joint decision-making that I think 1s preferred when possible both legally and psychologically Q@ Do you have an opinion as to, based on your background, training and experience, as to how long it would take to give the family therapy that you are recommending a fair chance at succeeding? AI would say six months to a year Q We discussed your recommendation concerning family therapy Were there any other recommendations King Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kangreporting com12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 23 24 25 St George and St George oo \\a that you made on the basis of your evaluation in this case? A Yes, sir And we are speaking specifically to Mrs St George or to everyone? Q To everyone, in general A Well, I'll go one at a time here The only other thing with Mrs St George would be to help her with some assistance vocationally so that she 1s able to be economically independent or as independent as possible I also think that being able to work outside of the home would benefit her self-esteem and self-worth I think it would reduce potential tendency towards dependency on perhaps someone else I would not want to see a situation where because of economic concerns or necessity we hook up wath somebody 1n order to have that financial burden seized a little bit So I think there's good reason to encourage that recommendation I also think she's bright, and intelligent, and I think quite capable, 1f given the raght circumstances, to perform emotionally, parentally, and every other way As far as Jamie 1s concerned, I definitely feel that he 1s 1n need of interventions to address his reading disability One thing would be to address what King Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kingreporting com10 ql 12 13 14 is 16 7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 St George and st George 691 4 the school system by law 1s required to provide him I think there 1s no question that this child has a learning disability He also has some behavioral assues, but primarily a learning disability And we need to have interventions for these learning disabilities on both the school level and outside, if possible I also believe that Jamie needs to continue his psychiatric treatment with Dr Mosher And I have great confidence 1n Dr Mosher's expertise and ability to provide appropriate care for him Q And how about Dr St George? I don't think we specifically discussed any recommendation A I believe my primary recommendation with him was to involve himself in that family-therapy process @ Did you form an opinion as to Mrs St George's willingness to engage in the family therapy? A Really, I did not I think that I do believe that Mrs St George genuinely loves and cares about Jamie I very much believe -~ MS FIGUEROA Objection Non-responsive He dadn't form an opinion The answer 15 no A Actually, that was going to be the answer THE COURT He said he really didn't form an opinion, so I'll sustain the objection King Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kangreporting comMR MARKS Thank you, Doctor THE COURT Dad you time that just right, Mr Marks? MR MARKS I'm not that good, Judge THE COURT I think 1t would be appropriate to go ahead and take our break at this time for the lunch hour We'll be 1n recess at that tame, and we'll reconvene at 115 Thank you (A luncheon recess was taken from 11 52 am to1l15 pm THE COURT Are we ready to do the cross-examination of Dr Williamson? MS FIGUEROA Yes, Your Honor Permission to do at from counsel table so I can spread out THE COURT You may Now, the podium may get an your way We may need to move that Is at in your way when you sit down? MS FIGUEROA No (CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MS FIGUEROA Q For the record, could you state your name, A Jeffrey Michael Williamson Q Now, Dr Wallaamson, 1s it true that the date of your evaluations actually started back in February of King Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kingreporting comSt George and St George 693 \\o 2006 as opposed to March 2006? A Yes, ma'am You are correct, Q@ And, actually, the first person you, that met with you was Nancy St George? A ‘That doesn't seem correct, but that's the way it's set here So I'm going to assume it 1s correct Q Well, I don't want you to assume Do you have any records to reflect the first time you met with Nancy St George? AI don't have them here with me, but I should be able to find that looking at my schedule Q Where would those records be? That would be in my schedule, master schedule Well, I would like to know what you did with George on February 3rd, 20067 It 1s also quite possible that 1s an error and amstake I have a consent for treatment signed by Mrs St George on actually December the 14th, 2005, whach I don't see reflected on any of the evaluations I don't know 1f she came in then or, and simply signed documents to move forward or 1f I saw her that day Again, that information could be easily found I do have Nancy St George 2/3/2006, and it looks like I started the interview with her having to do with her psychological evaluation King Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kangreporting comSt George and St George 694 \1 On February 3rd, 2006? Yes, ma'am What exactly did you do that day? I interviewed her that day Dad you have a questionnaire for her to fill A What IT have 1s Mrs St George came in and did her MMPI in December of 2005 on the 15th So the MMPT was already done And if there was any other questionnaire, 1t would have been having to do with Jamie Because the only questionnaire I had her do about herself would have been the MMPI @ So then we are establishing that there 1s no other questionnaire that you had the mother £211 out except for the MMPI? I believe that 1s correct And February 3rd -- Having to do with herself Excuse me February 3rd, 2006, you interviewed Nancy st That would be correct And what specifically did you ask her? I asked her questions having to do with developmental history Q What specific questions, sir, when you say King Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kingreporting com10 a 12 13 14 15 16 ay 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 St George and St George 695 \(S developmental history? A I ask all kinds of different questions, Ms Figueroa I don't write down every single question that I ask I write down the answers of the things I ask Q Now, well, I'm concerned because the developmental history with Nancy St George 1s very lengthy, and 1t's very brief with Dr St George MR MARKS Object to the characterization of counsel BY MS FIGUEROA Q Would you agree with that? A I agree that I have much more information with her developmental history Yes Q Is there a way that you can tell us 1f you asked both parents the same questions? A I can tell you for certain I did not ask both parents the same questions I would ask the same types of questions as I would attempt to get a developmental history Q How long dad you spend on February 3rd, 20067 A Again, I would have to take a look at that master schedule to tell you specifically At least an hour, possibly two hours Q An hour to two hours approximately? A That's correct Kang Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kingreportang com10 1. 12 13 14 15 16 1 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 St George and St George 696 \\9 Then you didn't see her again untal June 2nd, A I doubt that's the case Because I have several dates of evaluation with Jamie St George, and I believe the mother would have brought him in at least for some of those evaluation dates Q Wath regard to Jamie St George, the next date of evaluation I have 1s April 28th, 20067 A Yes, ma'am Q And you're saying the mother brought the child an for that evaluation? A I wall have to look at the record Yes, that 1s correct Q What I would like to do 1s just focus for right now on Nancy St George If we look at the dates you evaluated her, I'm showing seven sessions A Yes, ma'am Q Now, in those seven sessions, none of those sessions dealt with the MMPI, correct? A That 1s correct The MMPI was performed on December the Sth, 2005 Q And on June 2nd and June 30th, were those the two dates that you observed the mother with the child the only two dates? A No, I do not believe that's correct I'm King Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www Kingreporting com10 11 12 13 14 15 16 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 St George and St George 697 \do positive that's not correct I would have seen -- the observation of the mother and child would not just include the free-play structured interview We would also include interview with the mother, interview with the child, when they were both together Q What I'm asking 1s the dates you observed the mother and the child, were they on June 2nd and June 30th? A It's quite possible that I observed the mother with the child on those days However, at least one of my notes indicates that the day of observation with Jamie and his mother was August the 11th, 2006 Q My question 1s you have on Jamie St George evaluation June 2nd and June 30th, and on the mother's June 2nd and June 30th Can you tell me why those would be the same dates? A Probably because some of that time I spent asking Mrs St George questions having to do with her functioning, and the other part of that I spent asking questions having to do with Jamie Q So the first tame you saw the mother, that you observed the mother with the child was August 11th, 2006? A No, that 1s not correct The first tame I observed the mother with the child was April the 28th King Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kingreportang comSt George and St George 698 Q And then when was the second time? A There's quite a few notes here out of order, so it's going to be difficult One of those had to do wath 6/30/2006 Q When you say one of those, what are you talking about? A One of those observations of the mother and the child, which would include interviewing the mother and the child together, or some portion of that would have been 6/30/2006, as I just mentioned Q Would it be fair to say you observed the mother on two occasions only, correct? A No, that is not correct Q Then tell me how many times you observed the mother and the child interactang? A Are you talking about the structured interaction? Q Correct A Twice Q Two tames? A That 15 structured interaction Q And you only observed the father with the child in a structured interaction twice? A That 1s correct King Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kingreporting com la10 a. 12 13 14 15 16 17 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 St George and St George 699 Q And you had a total of only five sessions with the minor child, 1s that correct? A I believe that 1s correct There may have been more But an terms of direct contact with the child, 1t would have been five sessions Yes, ma'am Q And you had six sessions with Dr St George, correct? A I believe so I don't have the billing record That would be most helpful Q I'm looking at your psychological evaluation report which has the dates of evaluation A Yes, ma'am Q Do you have that 1n front of you? A I do have that in front of you Q Were those dates correct? A I certainly hope so Yes, ma'am Q Now, as to the mother's evaluation, out of those -- can we assume that out of the seven dates that are there, two of those was were with structured observation of, structured observation with the child correct? A That would be correct Q So the other five times, they were interviews? A Interviews or testing with the child @ Now, you andacated that you relied on some King Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kingreporting com 103,10 a. 12 13 14 is 16 7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 700 St George and St George documents regarding a previcuSINM of Nancy St George? A That would be correct Yes, ma'am Q What specific documents are you relying on? A Records from Circles of Care Q What 1s the date of those records? A Iwill have to look for them @ Do you recall who provided those records to you? A Carcles of Care Dr St George also provided me some records that were basically simlar Q Was that the 2005 records that you were referring to? A Yes, ma'am Q And that was February 2005, correct? A That 1s correct Q And those, 1n review of those records, you would agree, would you not, that that visit at Circles of Care was attributed to the separation of this couple and the ancident of the domestic violence on February 11, 20057 A That 1s correct Q And then when you indicate that she 1s currently :nvolved __i—— what you're talking about 1s she is seeing a King Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kingreporting comSt George and St George 701 \4 1s that correct? 's correct not suggesting some extreme 18 A That 1s my understanding 19 Q You have no concerns with these medacations aty to parent, correct? King Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kingreporting com10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 St George and St George 702 as her from being able to parent Q Well, my question was you have no concerns with the use of this medication and her ability to function as a parent well with the child? Q Well, I haven't asked that question We'll get into that Dr Waillaamson, and you would agree, would you not, that an your professional experience that you have A Yes, ma'am MR MARKS Relevancy THE COURT Are you making an objection? to whether men or BY MS FIGUEROA Q Now, isn't 1t true that women are more likely to present themselves for treatment than men? King Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kingreporting comSt George and st George mo [A MR MARKS Objection Relevancy THE COURT Ms Fagueroa, what 1s the relevancy of that? MS FIGUEROA The relevancy 1s that I was going to tie it in with these parties I'll go on It doesn't matter THE COURT Okay BY MS FIGUEROA Q With regard to Nancy St George, you would agree, would you not, that Nancy St George, out of the parties here, 1s more likely to present herself for treatment than Dr St George? A Yes Q And, an fact, you saw evidence of that in your file that you had to refer to, correct? A That there had been treatment, yes, ma'am Q And the treatment that she had was voluntary, was 1t not? A That 1s correct Q And that's something that you considered A I very much believe that 1f an individual is 23 | experiencing problems and has the insight, fortitude 24 | courage to seek out treatment, I see that as a positive 25 | sign Yes, ma'am Kang Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kingreporting comSt George and St George 704 \u Q And would you agree, would you not, that Nancy St George was insightful in seeking out that treatment on February 2005? A Well, I don't know whether it was insightful or not I certainly think 1t was appropriate, and a recognition of her needing treatment, and a w2llingness to seek out that treatment Q Now, when you're doing a psychological evaluation, are you also considering the consistent reporting of the parties to make sure that what they're reporting to you 1s, in fact, accurate? A Yes Q In Nancy St George's case, you were able to look at documents from her history, correct? A That 1s correct Q And you were able to verify that the reporting she provided to you was consistent, straightforward, and honest? A I believe 1t was consistent and honest Yes. Q Now, with regard to Dr St George though when he gave you his reports of the brief history that he gave you, you had no documentations to refer to as far as employment records, correct? A TI had a curriculum vitae, which would reflect King Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kingreporting com10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 St George and St George 705 lw those -- @ You didn't have any personnel information from any previous employers, did you? A That 1s correct Q Dr St George didn't provide you a copy of the injunction his sister had filed against him? A That 1s correct Q Now, would you agree that based on Dr st George's MMPI-2 that he has a tendency to be intimidating? A Yes, I believe that could suggest that Yes ma'am Q In fact, an his profile, one of the things that was elevated was the scale that reflects a tendency to perceive threat in a social environment and a degree of distrust, correct? A Yes, ma'am Q And then individuals who have that profile see the world an a hostile way, correct? A They have a tendency to do that Yes Q If they view the world in a hostile way, their ability to co-parent 15 somewhat diminished, 1s 1t not? A Certainly 1f they perceive that co-parent in a hostile way Q And even their ability to confer in the best King Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kingreporting comSt George and St George 706 199 anterest of their child 1s diminished? A Because of the distrust, yes Q And in this case, there's no doubt that Dr St George has distrust for his wife? A Yes, I believe that's correct Q And these types of people not only have distrust, but also can react aggressively, 1s that correct? A Yes It's not necessarily because of that profile But af one has a tendency to see the world in a hostile way, then they are more likely then to react to that world, 1f you will, with perhaps similarly threatening or intimidating behavior They're viewing that environment as hostale, as threatening Q And a person that uses tactics of threatening antimadation 1s an inappropriate role model for a child with behavioral problems, correct? A Yes, matam Q Now, you would agree, would you not, that these intamidations or tactics of threat would affect Jamie in a very detrimental way? A Yes Particularly because 1f Jamie has aggressive behavior So one of our problems here would be that any behaviors that are organized around threat and intamidation would therefore in some sense reinforce King Reporting & Video Conference Center Melbourne, FL (321) 242-8080 www kingreporting com