TRANSCRIPT Someone Knows Something Season 1, EP 3 CBC Radio

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Someone Knows Something, Season 1 -- The Theories
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
VOICE 1: There’s evil living here.
ANNOUNCER: From executive producer Jordan Peele.
VOICE 3: I think there's Nazis living in America, and someone out there is taking them out.
[Music]
ANNOUNCER: Now.
VOICE 4: You put together a group of Nazi hunters?
ANNOUNCER: Revenge is righteous.
[Music]
ANNOUNCER: Al Pacino in his first television series.
VOICE 5: Have you had enough?
Because there’s more.
[Music]
ANNOUNCER: Watch the Amazon original series, “Hunters”.
New series, watch now.
Only on Amazon Prime Video.
[Music]
ANNOUNCER: This is a CBC Podcast.
VOICE 1: You're listening to Someone Knows Something from CBC Radio.
https://www.cbc.ca/radio/sks/sks-transcripts/transcript-someone-knows-something-season-1-ep-3-1.5546163 1/17
In 1972, five-year-old Adrien McNaughton vanished while on a fishing trip in Eastern Ontario.
Documentarian David Ridgen goes back to the small town he grew up in searching for answers.
[Scientific whirring]
DAVID RIDGEN: All the physical things five-year-old Adrien McNaughton left behind on this earth
before he mysteriously disappeared on a fishing trip are in a small dusty satchel, next to my
scanner.
VOICE 1: Sorry, you were gonna go have lunch and I started going through these.
SHONTELLE: Oh, look! Ah!
RIDGEN: The only existing picture of Adrien I can find was also in the satchel.
SHONTELLE: It was stuck to the envelope.
RIDGEN: But Shontelle, his sister, mistakenly ripped it apart as she was opening one of the
envelopes that had been sent shortly after he went missing. It was from a collective of psychics,
people who claim that their supposedly extra-sensory perceptions can lead to solutions in crimes.
She'd wanted to read me the letter. Some of the envelope's sealant had stuck to the front of the
photo, and now Adrien's picture is obscured by an applique of pen and ancient paper fiber.
Something you might see hanging in a gallery, an art piece of a tiny picture of a tiny person lost in
a giant frame.
[Papers rustling]
RIDGEN: And tucked hidden among the countless yellowed newspaper articles that show Adrien's
disappearance, etched deep across the very un-digital news cycle of the time, the satchel has two
other things in it that he physically touched. Inside a clear plastic bag clinging with dust are strips
of a now off-white T-shirt that he once wore.
The McNaughton's had been stapling the little pieces to letters, in outside hopes that any essence
of Adrien might spur others to somehow locate him or conjure him. I have the urge to smell the
strips of T-shirt, and I do. But I get only dust.
Who knows if they'll come in handy later?
And the final thing is a pre-school folder with drawings and line studies made in crayon by
Adrien's own hand. You look for clues in things, everything, even this.
A penguin, a house with giant people, an early version of a Pac-Man guy with rounded teeth,
something of a self-portrait...even a bear. But it's the simple bird one that I'm drawn to, you know,
the shallow "M", one we all draw in our skies at that age, and probably any age.
[Birds cawing]
RIDGEN: I think these ones...I think they're either black crows or ravens.
[Birds cawing]
RIDGEN’S FATHER: There's something else. It's remarkable that there are so many hunt camps.
RIDGEN: Let's see the hunt camps on there?
RIDGEN’S FATHER: There are...
RIDGEN: I'm sitting with my mom and dad in the house I grew up in.
I think this place was built in 1917, red brick with plain window frames, and creaky maple strip
floors on one of Arnprior's small town streets.
I want to go back up to Holmes lake and look around, and Dad's pulled out all his old topographic
maps of the area.
RIDGEN’S FATHER: There's a green dot on the legend of the map, signifying it’s a hunt camp, and
there are several in the vicinity.
RIDGEN: Mum knew Adrien's mother, Barb McNaughton, well. Both were nurses at the Arnprior
hospital. My mom was an RN and Barb was a nursing assistant.
RIDGEN’S MOTHER: Well, not being living here when it happened, I don't have any idea of how the
search went or who was asked to go out, but I know that any of the people that worked with her at
the hospital or knew her would have been involved, and the whole town, I guess was, I don't know.
But our oldest son here...
RIDGEN’S FATHER: Certain the other people that were probably set up there for camping or
hunting, they're not that far away. Within a kilometer, easily, of the lake.
RIDGEN: Dad's 87 now, and has keen interest in genealogy, maps, archives. In fact, he works at
the Archives in Arnprior. His topo map of the Calabogie area is ripped at the folds, and at some
point the early 70s, he efficiently circled some of the lakes in pink highlighter, and one of them is
Holmes Lake, where I had just gone earlier in the day with Adrien's father, Murray McNaughton.
RIDGEN: So, I mean, with hunt camps close by, someone that went to those camps and stayed at
those camps could have been at one of the lakes?
RIDGEN’S FATHER: Right. It may not have been that isolated in terms of people.
RIDGEN: Yeah, I mean, he-- Mr. McNaughton doesn't...
RIDGEN: I remember fishing with my dad in the Calabogie area, near where Adrien McNaughton
disappeared.
Literally with a stick and string, some worms and hooks, and a lot of sunfish being caught and
released.
RIDGEN’S FATHER: I just noticed on the topographic maps here, that the secondary road snakes
all over the place. Leads right into the Holmes Lake. Right from here over to there. You can see
this wind terrifically. It's quite long.
RIDGEN: While Dad's fetishizing his pile of maps, I poke through some of the old newspapers in
the satchel that are left to scan. One about Butch and Saber, the German shepherd tracking dogs
that never really got a scent because of rain, or over trampled paths, or amateur dogs. Another
about a reward fund announced in the House of Commons for Adrien. How the Eighth Canadian
Hussars Regiment from Petawawa was called in to do the search, and how 9,000 people were
eventually involved in combing the woods for two weeks. How Adrien was 36 inches tall, 35 to 40
pounds, had a scar over his left eye, wore a dark blue quilted nylon jacket. I wonder how long
nylon lasts in the UV and the Canadian winters before it breaks down. He also wore a yellow, blue,
and red stripe pullover and black running shoes with white soles. Rubber soles, probably. Anyway,
I've already gone through all these articles, but then...like in a movie, I notice one folded in half
and squished into the bottom of the case, and I pull it out. It's from a Renfrew newspaper dated
June 14th, just two days after Adrien disappeared. One that I haven't read. "30 Search Thick Bush
for Five-Year-Old Boy", and right away I see the two sentences that mention yet another
fisherman. A fellow named John Gervais, who had allegedly heard Adrien calling out that night, the
night he went missing. Gervais was fishing Brennan Lake, the article said, just a few hundred
meters south of Holmes Lake. And if he heard Adrien that night, we'd know the direction and
speed he was travelling. Again, strangely, not reported anywhere else, but neither was Danny
Ring, and he was actually there when Adrien disappeared. Is it possible that this John Gervais'
information was missed? And if he heard Adrien that night calling out, why didn't he respond to
him? I look through phone books and online, but no John Gervais turns up in Calabogie or the
entire area, in fact. John Gervais. So, I set him aside for later.
[Footsteps]
RIDGEN: After going there with the McNaughton family, I decided to return with my dad to
Holmes Lake to examine the place more closely. I feel there's got to be something here. We decide
to walk in. So, just walking in along the trail to Holmes Lake...with my dad. Going in on the shorter
end of the road. Oh yes, there's no way the car would've made it up here. Pretty rugged in here.
When we arrive at the turnoff for Holmes Lake, we see another road leading to Centre Lake,
beside it to the south. People I had spoken to had said that back in 1972, there was a well-cut trail
into Centre Lake at the time, and this road must be the widening of that trail.
RIDGEN’S FATHER: Maybe owned by people who use it for hunting.
RIDGEN: It's not only very bushy, lots of bush, but it's just...lots of hills, eh? Lots of...but as the
father said, as Mr. McNaughton said, if he got to the road, he would've stayed on the road. He
wouldn't have continued into the woods or something.
RIDGEN’S FATHER: He wouldn't think so. And if the black flies were out, he'd be agonizing.
RIDGEN: Oh yeah, that'd be the beginning of June... Almost for sure, if Adrien had gone from his
fishing spot at Holmes Lake, back up the hill, played in the dirt, and then he chose to enter the
woods south of there at almost any point, he would have very soon hit the trail to Centre Lake. If
he decided to go to the car, along the trail Murray, Shontelle, and I had walked, he'd also be at the
road and the car, a car that also reportedly had snacks inside. And it would have been a refuge
from vorpal clouds of early June black flies. Oh yeah, that would be the beginning of June, would be
the end of May, would be the worst black fly season imaginable here in Eastern Ontario. First time
he'd ever been fishing. He'd be-- I think he'd probably be interested in heading into the car.
RIDGEN: Then there's the lakes themselves. Holmes Lakes, Centre Lake just a few hundred meters
south, and Brennan Lake, another few hundred meters south of that. Could Adrien have fallen
into one of them, or any of the other little hold waters, or swamps in the area?
[Knocking on a window]
PAT: How are you?
RIDGEN: Good.
PAT: Nice to meet you, Dave.
RIDGEN: Um, mind if I put on my shoes, or should I take them off?
PAT: No, don't worry. I got the lady coming in next couple days to give'er a good cleaning. I'm all
alone here.
RIDGEN: Oh, okay. Pat Patterson is the dive master for the massive search that took place after
Adrien's disappearance. He was in charge of all the dives in the area. He lives alone, long retired,
and his neat and unassuming house is directly across from an Ontario Provincial Police Station in
Renfrew.
PAT: This is an old scrapbook I started years and years ago. And every time I get it...a bunch of
new stuff, I keep adding to it, but...
RIDGEN: On his kitchen table, as I walk in, are two huge scrapbooks containing clippings and
photos from the many crime dives he has led, mostly looking for bodies.
PAT: June 1972, was before dark, but we got a call to go to west of Calabogie. There was a small
boy lost, and the dad and that couldn't find him, they were looking for them. So, we went out
there. I think it was just about dark when we got there. And we looked and searched, and sirens
on, and everything else, but it was too dark, so we thought we'd continue in the morning.
RIDGEN: As we talk, I note that on the walls are pictures of some of the many massive totem poles
that Pat has carved. On commission and for fun. Interesting hobby for a white guy. But he
obviously takes pride in work well done.
PAT: I was a district diver. Probably 90% of our work was recovering bodies. On that particular
type of dive, we would start at shore. We would tie off our rope to a good tree or what have you.
We would start across, the three of us, side by side, only covering an area about 30 feet wide, we'll
say. And we just gradually make our way down a hill 'till you hit the level of the lake bottom, you
know? We had long rope, long half inch ropes. We'd stretch them right across the lake. And that
would be our baseline. Just much the same way you would see archeologists doing a room,
written it out in square grids. So, you're covering a fair swath of bottom at the time. Wasn't that
deep. 30 feet deep, roughly. Couldn't come up with nothing. Didn't see anything. And visibility was
really good, so...the bottom wasn't real soft where a person would fall in and sink out of sight, it
wasn't that type of bottom. And again, we didn't come up with nothing at all. So then learning that
there was two little lakes not-- not too far away, we thought, "Well, gee, maybe we should look at
them." So, over the next-- over the next few days, we did those lakes very thoroughly too, and
came up with nothing, as far as the diving part.
RIDGEN: So, you did all three lakes, and you did them a number-- at least how many times would
you say you searched them?
PAT: Holmes' Lake for sure at least twice. The other two, and I wouldn't say we went twice to those
lakes.
RIDGEN: And you were the only dive team doing this.
PAT: Yeah. We-- we looked at quite a few swamps which are in the area too, but we never had any
luck there neither. We were there, I think, close to three weeks. And I'll say just about-- just about
every day we got to dive in somewhere, and sometimes two or three dives in a day, you know?
RIDGEN: The same day I met Pat the dive master, I met Steve Collier. Steve joined the thousands
of volunteers who came in buses to look for Adrien and remembers his own version of how well
things were undertaken. Steve's a longtime resident of the nearby Black Donald Lake area. He
walks with a serious limp and casts the aura of some kind of western gunslinger.
RIDGEN: You remember the search for that little guy?
STEVE: I was up 24 hours looking. I'd never been up in that bush before, and everybody said I'd get
lost, but...I mean, the time I got there, there was no way to trail the kid, who was just walked to
death. It was all tore up. Anything rough, everybody goes around it, and you could hide a car in
there. And they were so loud. They said, "Build a bonfire and sit around, try to listen and see if you
can hear the kid crying. Mosquitoes were so loud; you couldn't hear the damn fire. I just can't
believe anybody turned a kid like that loose in a bush. I just...
[Steve sighs]
STEVE: It was really frustrating, you know? No way to trace that kid. There were just...enough to
make you weep. Tragic.
RIDGEN: Arnold MacIntyre, my old English writing teacher also took part in the search. He, like Pat
Patterson, is widowed and lives alone now. He's sitting slumped on a couch in his living room and
he casts a lonely aura. He once introduced the phrase, "Stoney lonesome", in class and promised
us that one day he'd use it in a story. And I'd like to borrow it now.
ARNOLD: The first I heard of it was a...morning news on a school day, that this child was missing,
and two other teachers now, I guess, went up to the site. The military was there, and so we caught
a ride in an army truck with a tarp over the top and went into the bush. Was evening, you know, in
June, of course, there are long evenings. So, we went way back in somewhere and I had no idea
where we were. And I was quite impressed by the military. They were disciplined and serious
about this. Maybe 20 people were there at that time. We were strung out in a line. About arm's
length from each other, moving broadside through the bush. And a soldier at each end of the line
with a roll of tape. And one had a compass, anyway. And they-- we walked through the bush that
way, searching at our feet. You know, we lifted every rosebush, we looked up every tree, we looked
at everything. And it was wet in the bush, we were soaking wet. And at-- after dark, maybe, that
must have been near ten o'clock at night, we were down in the swamps somewhere and the
soldier with the compass was, had his ledger out, trying to read his compass and that, but
anyway, that's how it was done. And we got back to the campsite, by that time it was late at night
and...we got a ride back out to the highway, and got in our cars, and...and so I came home
and...thinking that this is-- this is hopeless. Was just wild, rough country, and...but then I went
outside and listened to the winds in the trees, and then, well, God, you have to go back. I wanted
to know, you know? And what went-- I wanted to know the timeline. I wanted to know...what
happened there. As I said, kind of bedeviled me ever since.
RIDGEN: The timelines presented by Murray McNaughton, Danny Ring, and Lee McNaughton,
when combined, emerged with the following picture.
VOICE 1: We went one late afternoon evening.
VOICE 2: Another lot and I, and three or four of our family went up to Holmes Lake...fish speckled
trout.
VOICE 3: We went up that evening, and as I remember, everything was going good.
VOICE 2: And Adrien was fishing for a while, and he said he didn't want to fish anymore, so he
went back, played in the leaves behind us.
VOICE 1: He just got bored.
RIDGEN: From the time Adrien stopped fishing, went up the hill, played in the dirt, and
disappeared, to the time the shouting for him started, it would have been, by my estimation of all
interviewed, no more than 25 minutes maximum. Calculating how far a five-year-old boy would get
in 25 minutes, through either thick bush, or at the other extreme, on a path or a road, should give
an idea of the search area. And it's not very large.
VOICE 2: Well, we started calling him, but...
VOICE 3: Calling and waiting and listening for an answer. And we never got any answer. So, I said,
well, maybe we'd better get some help.
RIDGEN: People tend to walk in circular patterns and may walk for a long time but not end up that
far from the point they were last seen. And evidence, anecdotal and otherwise, has shown that
children do not always follow roads if they come to them. A study of 12 cases in the US found that
the majority of children aged one to six were finally located at most just over half a mile from the
point they were last seen, regardless of the terrain. The search for Adrien was carried out in a vast
area around Holmes Lake, and the army and volunteers reportedly gridded an area many times
that over their two-week search. Pat Patterson, the dive master I spoke to, searched bodies of
water more than ten kilometers away. He said, "We called the man who coordinated much of the
search for Adrien at the time, a retired police officer named Larry Callanan, who is now close to
90."
LARRY: You know, it's so long ago, I've forgotten all-- pretty well all about it anymore. And I
wouldn't help you in my-- anything I might say. Um, I don't know what to suggest to you, but I-- I
can't uh, I can't help you.
RIDGEN: Such a long time ago, who can blame him? And it's best to see this kind of thing as only a
dead end. For now. The question of wild animal attack comes up at every turn, and every person I
talk to about it has opinions that seem to line up.
RIDGEN: If a bear had been on the campsite, you think you would have known?
VOICE 1: I'd think so. I know that we were there once, and I remember hearing a wolf howl. But
never, never a bear.
VOICE 2: Everybody's saying, oh, a bear got him. A cougar got him. This, that, and the other thing.
We would have heard him screaming or something if a bear had of tackled him. Or we would have
heard the noise a bear would make, you know?
RIDGEN: Back in '72 in that area, would there be black bears near Mount Saint Patrick in that
area?
VOICE 3: Uh, there would be, definitely, yeah.
RIDGEN: Would they have heard a sound if a bear had attacked? Would they have found any
remnants if a bear had--?
VOICE 3: Oh, by all means they would have, yeah. That's why I think somebody's involved in foul
play. Because of no trace of clothes, no scent for the dogs. And what have you, that kid was taken
as far as I'd be concerned.
RIDGEN: Adrien was reportedly wearing a nylon jacket and shoes. Nylon would hold together in
some fashion for 30 to 40 years before the UV and other natural factors broke it down. And the
rubber from his shoes, 50 to 80 years. So, for finding anything he wore, it will likely be the soles of
his shoes.
RIDGEN: I'm gonna walk back to the other campsite, you aim that mic toward it, and then I'm
gonna shout. As I come, I'll shout, and you can-- we'll see how-- how you can hear me, and I'll time
myself walking. I'm doing another shout test with my dad.
[He shouts] Adrien!
RIDGEN: Could Adrien have heard the shouting, and from how far away? We're here in fall, and
Adrien disappeared in June with the leaves out. But I think we'll get a good enough measure of
how things sounded.
RIDGEN: Adrien! Did you hear me at all?
RIDGEN’S FATHER: Yeah, I could hear you right from the start.
RIDGEN: Really?
RIDGEN’S FATHER: Really.
RIDGEN: Wow. Did it sound like it was coming from different directions?
RIDGEN’S FATHER: No. Exactly there.
RIDGEN: Really?
RIDGEN’S FATHER: Yeah.
RIDGEN: So, the test shows that if Adrien walked between that lake and this lake, which is two
minutes and 20 seconds for me to walk, and I was going slow, he would have heard them
shouting...
RIDGEN’S FATHER: He should have heard.
RIDGEN: ..in the direction they were shouting from, if he was, in fact, here to hear it.
RIDGEN’S FATHER: Yeah. Whether or not he would, you know, react was the other question, I
guess.
RIDGEN: So then, the theories come around to, if Adrien or his clothing isn't in the water, isn't in
the woods, then he must have made it to a road. Or someone else made it to him.
VOICE 1: And I like to think that if he was taken by someone, it was someone who was desperate to
love a child.
VOICE 2: That is what I wanted to say too. That is what I wanted to say too. If it was someone that
did that, it was someone that wanted a child so badly.
RIDGEN: He'd either have been picked up by someone for whatever purpose, sexual or forced
adoption, let's say it out loud, or run over by someone who was afraid to tell anyone about it.
VOICE 1: The closest theory I ever had, and it's probably unrealistic. I thought, maybe he walked
off back to the road and got hit by a car, and the person who hit him put him in the trunk.
VOICE 2: The one theory that I think is most plausible to me is he...was traveling alone the
roadway back to the camper or something, and another fishing party or something came around
the corner, and a car had ran over him.
RIDGEN: If this is what happened, an accident that wasn't reported, it would have been
exponentially harder, as each day went by with the search and pressure mounting, for that
person to reveal the truth.
[Music]
RIDGEN: What are the odds of each event? What if the search failed and the searchers couldn't
find the keys that were in their own pockets? What if Adrien fell, and hit his head, and slipped
under a rock, or into a crevice unseen? While I'm all that over, I'll try for that other fisherman, John
Gervais, the man who allegedly heard Adrien that night, down near Brennan Lake. He was
supposedly from the Calabogie area, and his information could be crucial to any real theory or
percentage chance of what happened to Adrien. I ask Murray McNaughton if he knew Gervais.
RIDGEN: Now, there was a fisherman on the lake that day named John Gervais. From Calabogie.
Do you know John?
MURRAY: No. And he was on the lake the day we were fishing? As far as I know, there was nobody
there. Did he say he was on that lake?
RIDGEN: He was at the lake at midday.
MURRAY: Yeah.
RIDGEN: He said he saw you guys. And then I asked Donnie Ring. And what about, um...there was
a person named John Gervais, from Calabogie.
DONNIE: Johnny, yeah.
RIDGEN: And John Gervais, supposedly that night, he was fishing Brennan Lake, apparently, and
had heard Adrien.
MURRAY: I never heard that before.
RIDGEN: That's in the newspaper. It's in one of the first articles that came out. John Gervais says
he heard Adrien on Brennan lake, but didn't go check it out because he didn't know he was lost.
Do you know John?
MURRAY: Johnny? Oh, yes, I know Johnny, yup.
RIDGEN: Is he still alive?
MURRAY: Oh, yeah. He's in Calabogie.
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[Rustling and footsteps]
RIDGEN: As I approached Gervais' house, my internal movie is writing this scene as it happens,
and I have this feeling I'm going to get something new. I need the next act to move forward, but I
know that's not going to happen necessarily the way you want it to.
JOHN: Hi!
RIDGEN: Hey sir, Mr. Gervais, how are you? So, is it Jervay or Jervayer?
JOHN: Gervais.
RIDGEN: Okay.
JOHN: Doesn't matter.
RIDGEN: Please say Gervais.
JOHN: Auto or valley, it doesn't matter.
RIDGEN: Doesn't matter. You're both.
JOHN: Yeah, come on in.
RIDGEN: Uh, great, thanks for... John is average height, graying but young looking, and I figure he
must have been in his late teens or early 20s in 1972. He's a retired hydro guy, and his house is
immaculate. We sit down in a cozy living room and start right away.
JOHN: We were fishing off the rocks. This was 6:30, 7:00 maybe, in the evening type of thing, 7:30
at the latest. And we could hear people shouting on the far side of the lake. But we didn't know
why the people were shouting at the time.
RIDGEN: The paper, they said that you heard Adrien.
JOHN: I never heard Adrien, no, no. No, we just heard people shouting. We never heard Adrien
or...
RIDGEN: John Gervais never heard Adrien.
JOHN: We found out the next day that there was somebody missing up there. So that's when all
the-- the whole thing started.
RIDGEN: Immediate heart stoppage. But then John gets the heart moving again. While he was
fishing at Brennan Lake with his wife on the night that Adrien went missing, he goes on to tell me
that he had been at Holmes Lake earlier that same day, fishing with some other friends.
JOHN: Three of us went to go fishing. I would guess that the time would be around ten o'clock in
the morning, and we'd pulled up at the campsite where Holmes' Lake and Centre Lake is. And
there was a group of people there, probably four adults and a couple of kids running around. So,
we talked to them for a few minutes, said we were going down to fish Centre Lake. Which we did.
But in the meantime, we noticed there was a car there, and...
RIDGEN: If John saw a car there, and people, it most certainly was not Murray McNaughton, or his
family, or Donnie Ring. They came to Holmes Lake some hours later, after they got off work in the
late afternoon. This car that Gervais saw belonged to someone else.
JOHN: Well, we talked about that car, it was black and white, and I'm sure it was a '56 or '55 Dodge.
We talked about it because it was such good shape that-- when we were fishing, and uh...I don't
know whose car it was or anything, I was-- but it was parked there.
RIDGEN: So, you would assume-- and when you saw the people at Holmes Lake, were they on the
lake fishing, or were they at the car, or...
JOHN: They were on the car, around the camping area.
RIDGEN: So, the car area was where people would camp at that time?
JOHN: Yes, yes.
RIDGEN: 'Cause now, the campsite is actually at the lake.
JOHN: Could be, yeah. We just walked past them, said hi and whatever, and went ahead fishing. I
don't know, it's very, very strange. That car is still a strange car. It was never seen again. I never
seen that car around here before, or after.
RIDGEN: And did the police-- when-- the police ever tell you anything about whether they had
found the owners of that car?
JOHN: No.
RIDGEN: 'Cause it's pretty important. The car information has never been reported before. A 1956
black and white Dodge with, Gervais says, two males, two females, and some children around it. In
the least, it shows that people who had never been seen before or since in the area, were able to
find Holmes Lake that day and park there. At the most, they could have knowledge that might help
the investigation. Or perhaps at the outside, beyond the margins, they may have some
connection to Adrien's disappearance. I wonder if police ever tracked the car or the people down.
I decide to ask Murray if he remembers anything about a different car being on the scene at
Holmes Lake that day.
RIDGEN: Do you ever remember any talk of a black and white car that was seen up at Holmes
Lake?
MURRAY: No.
RIDGEN: That was never part of the police discussion with you? They never asked you, or
questioned?
MURRAY: Not that I remember.
RIDGEN: And you, of course, never saw a black and white car up there, or any other car other
than yours?
MURRAY: I don't think so, no.
RIDGEN: Back at Holmes Lake with Dad, I'm walking toward what I think could be a hunting blind. I
hadn't noticed it when I came with Murray and Shontelle, but it sits just off the parking area. The
'56 Dodge that John Gervais saw would have been parked right on the spot where I'm walking
now. But, until I can talk to the Ontario Provincial Police, that piece will have to sit.
RIDGEN: You can see the lake right there. So, it's a little, uh, enclosure made out of our green
tarp, and a makeshift metal roof. It's like a deer stand, but it's actually not, it's actually a latrine.
Just an outhouse.
RIDGEN’S FATHER: Okay. Want me to take a picture of it?
RIDGEN: Sure. Looking at the ancient outhouse with tarp overlay, I wonder if some version of it
was here in 1972. Did Adrien, a slight, small boy, fall into it? Did anyone bother to look? Was the
outhouse here at the time, and if not, where was it? These are the kinds of desperate questions
that a family who has suddenly lost a child must ask, with so many searches and so little evidence.
It was a desperation that drove the McNaughton's to look anywhere for help.
VOICE 1: They turned to faith because of the trauma of the loss of my brother and their son.
LEE: So, because of the event, my parents became seekers.
SHONTELLE: They don't believe in psychics themselves. They're actually quite against it, because
of their faith and-- and whatnot. But in moments like that, you grasp at any straw you can.
RIDGEN: From the satchel containing Adrien's drawings, the articles, and the correspondence
with the McNaughton family, it's evident that several psychics shared their views on what
happened to Adrien.
VOICE 1: This is typed, and it's just impressions from, it looks to me like, three different psychics. I
believe the child wandered off, attracted by an animal. He accidentally fell into the water and
drowned. The boy is in very good protective hands in the spirit world.
RIDGEN: I'm not a fan of psychics. I think it's bullshit, myself. Even I cannot believe I said that aloud
to this family. I mean, they're valuable in that they just bring a different perspective on the
creative thinking around a case. That's how I think of psychics. I think that they're important for
that.
VOICE 1: There was one fellow that came in, and he came from way down in Ottawa. And he could
take a map, and with this...the equipment that he used, he could tell you exactly where water was,
without even going to the place. And he also tried that with Ader, and he said it kept going to
Clyde Forks. And whether it's true or not, we don't know. And there was another-- the other lady
sent us a letter, which is probably in there, I don't know, and she had also mentioned the same
thing. It makes you kind of believe that maybe they'd go to Clyde Forks.
RIDGEN: Clyde Forks is a small town several kilometers away from Holmes Lake. One of the more
isolated areas in Eastern Ontario.
VOICE 1: I was up to an auction sale at uh...Clyde Forks one time. My friends and I went up, and I
asked a lot of people around, but nobody seemed to know nothing about it.
[Footsteps]
RIDGEN: Yeah. So, Holmes Lake will be on the left up here. If Adrien made it from here at Holmes
Lake somehow to Clyde Forks or anywhere else, he'd be 48 years old today. The entrance to
Centre Lake looks startlingly similar to Holmes Lake. So, he might have gotten confused and
thought that...
RIDGEN’S FATHER: Yeah, he was there.
RIDGEN: ..people had left, and he was alone or something.
RIDGEN: He's either here, in the Holmes Lake area, or he's not here. Okay, well, that was-- that
was fruitful, I think we learned a lot on that, just coming to the location. Can always learn a lot
coming to the locations where people-- where either the bodies were found or where they
disappeared. And to find out if he's here, I wonder if cadaver dogs are the answer. These are dogs
trained especially to sniff out the bones of humans. I don't think there's ever been a cadaver dog
search of the area. Only a search for a live person. And I wonder about my bullshit remark about
the psychics. Do they bring creativity to a case, or do they feed off of their own eminence to shine
a light on nothing of value? And if Adrien is still alive and he's out there, would he recognize the
things that he had left behind? The drawings, the birds, the bear. Would he know his name? Would
he know his parents, his brother Lee? How do you know you're missing when you don't know you
need to be found? This is the tree, Dad, where he said he lost saw him. Right here. And Adrien was
standing right here. Said he didn't want to fish anymore, and his Dad said he took the rod from
him, and Adrien walked up this hill here...and disappeared.
RIDGEN’S FATHER: This is a tremendous drop off right here. Look at that.
RIDGEN: Tremendous drop off.
RIDGEN’S FATHER: Right. Right down here.
RIDGEN: Well, you see, that's the lake there, though, Dad. You're looking at the water there.
RIDGEN’S FATHER: Well, I'm looking for water.
RIDGEN: Yeah, that's-- that's actually so still that it looks like-- it looks like a bottomless pit.
ANNOUNCER: On the next episode of Someone Knows Something...
VOICE 1: The whole point is, somebody knows something about what happened to him. Whether
he's dead or alive, let's hope-- we're gearing for he's alive. But somebody knows something. And
nobody keeps everything in forever. Miracles happen. That's what I'm-- I'm shooting for with this
one.
ANNIUNCER: Visit CBC.ca/SKS to see photos and documents related to Adrien

McNaughton's disappearance. Subscribe in iTunes or your favorite podcast app to catch up
on previous episodes. If you like the show, tell your friends. Someone Knows Something is
hosted, written, and produced by David Ridgen. The show is also produced by Ashley
Walters, Sandra Bartlett, Steph Kampf, and executive producer, Arif Noorani. Music is by Bob
Wiseman. Vocals by Mary Margaret O'Hara.
[Singing]
MARY MARGARET O’HARA: I will never stop my love.
I will never sleep.
Something here is precious.
A memory I keep.
I will never stop my love.
I will never, never sleep.
All I want is an answer for this mystery I keep.
[Music]
MARY MARGARET O’HARA: Maybe one day we will all look out on the sun.
And know a light that shines the truth on our loved ones.
[Music]
MARY MARGARET O’HARA: I will never stop my love.
I will never sleep.
Something here is precious.
A memory I keep.
I will never, never stop my love.

I will never sleep.
All I want is an answer for this mystery we keep.
[Music]
MARY MARGARET O’HARA: Maybe one day we will all look out on the sun.
And know a light that shines the truth on our loved ones.
[Music]
MARY MARGARET O’HARA: Oh, oh oh.
[Music]
ANNOUNCER: For more CBC original podcasts, go to CBC.ca/originalpodcasts.
Back To Top »
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CBC would like to acknowledge the support of the Broadcasting Accessibility Fund.

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7/25/2020 TRANSCRIPT: Someone Knows Something - Season 1, EP 3 | CBC Radio

Someone Knows Something, Season 1 -- The Theories

VOICE 1: There’s evil living here.

ANNOUNCER: From executive producer Jordan Peele.

VOICE 4: You put together a group of Nazi hunters?

ANNOUNCER: Revenge is righteous.

ANNOUNCER: Al Pacino in his ﬁrst television series.

VOICE 5: Have you had enough?

Because there’s more.

ANNOUNCER: Watch the Amazon original series, “Hunters”.

New series, watch now.

Only on Amazon Prime Video.

ANNOUNCER: This is a CBC Podcast.

VOICE 1: You're listening to Someone Knows Something from CBC Radio.

SHONTELLE: Oh, look! Ah!

SHONTELLE: It was stuck to the envelope.

Who knows if they'll come in handy later?

RIDGEN: Let's see the hunt camps on there?

RIDGEN’S FATHER: There are...

But our oldest son here...

RIDGEN: Yeah, I mean, he-- Mr. McNaughton doesn't...

RIDGEN’S FATHER: Maybe owned by people who use it for hunting.

PAT: How are you?

PAT: Nice to meet you, Dave.

RIDGEN: Um, mind if I put on my shoes, or should I take them oﬀ?

RIDGEN: You remember the search for that little guy?

VOICE 1: We went one late afternoon evening.

VOICE 1: He just got bored.

VOICE 2: Well, we started calling him, but...

heard the noise a bear would make, you know?

VOICE 3: Uh, there would be, deﬁnitely, yeah.

[He shouts] Adrien!

RIDGEN: Adrien! Did you hear me at all?

RIDGEN’S FATHER: Really.

RIDGEN’S FATHER: No. Exactly there.

RIDGEN’S FATHER: Yeah.

RIDGEN’S FATHER: He should have heard.

RIDGEN: He was at the lake at midday.

DONNIE: Johnny, yeah.

MURRAY: I never heard that before.

MURRAY: Johnny? Oh, yes, I know Johnny, yup.

RIDGEN: Is he still alive?

MURRAY: Oh, yeah. He's in Calabogie.

ANNOUNCER: Good people can ﬁnd themselves in bad situations.

[Rustling and footsteps]

JOHN: Doesn't matter.

RIDGEN: Please say Gervais.

JOHN: Auto or valley, it doesn't matter.

RIDGEN: Doesn't matter. You're both.

JOHN: Yeah, come on in.

RIDGEN: The paper, they said that you heard Adrien.

RIDGEN: John Gervais never heard Adrien.

JOHN: They were on the car, around the camping area.

JOHN: Yes, yes.

RIDGEN: 'Cause now, the campsite is actually at the lake.

MURRAY: Not that I remember.

MURRAY: I don't think so, no.

RIDGEN’S FATHER: Okay. Want me to take a picture of it?

LEE: So, because of the event, my parents became seekers.

RIDGEN’S FATHER: Yeah, he was there.

RIDGEN: ..people had left, and he was alone or something.

RIDGEN’S FATHER: This is a tremendous drop oﬀ right here. Look at that.

RIDGEN: Tremendous drop oﬀ.