Daaji: Hello, welcome!

Natasha noel: Hi! My name is Natasha. Thanks for having me here. It’s a great honour. I
think I’ve very basic questions. So, I’m gonna try and make it quick. But my first question is
Meditation and science, how does it go hand in hand or what are your thoughts on that?
Daaji: Well, there are many thoughts. (Both laugh). It’s a I don’t know what to call it. It’s a
very interesting phase in our life actually, this century, where I see that there is amalgamation
coming together or something that was considered so opposite. Science and spirituality,
science and religion you know commonly Galileo and all those you know great scientists they
were at crossroads with Christianity. When they found, with their scientific research that
earth is like many other planets rotating around the sun while the religious belief was sun is
rotating around the planets so when Galileo proclaimed that its Earth, Religious people
couldn’t tolerate it, they wanted to kill him because its going against the holy scriptures. If he
could create a doubt in one thing then he will be able to create doubt in many other things.
So, religions fought against scientific discoveries. Galileo was someone to who they said, you
better change your opinion otherwise we’ll have to finish you and he was poisoned to death,
killed actually but prior to that he said, I’m willing to tell you that Sun is moving around the
earth but that will not change the fact so that further infuriated this.
Now, you see, scientific discovery was deadly against the religious beliefs in those days, now
there is revenge time (both laugh) revenge time how? There are beautiful spiritual researches
that are coming up. Now science wants a proof, Earlier religion wanted a proof from science.
Now, science wants a proof spiritual approaches and nothing is wrong with it. Only thing
wrong with such an approach is science would like to have repeated experience or the
repeated results of the same thing, right! How can you have repeated results on the same
thing? For example, water boils at hundred-degree temperature but when you go to heights,
let’s say Nanital and some further heights and on Everest, for example, try to boil water there,
it will boil but at much lower temperature because the pressure is much lower there.
Generally, water freezes at zero-degree temperature but if you add salt to it, it will not freeze
at zero degree, it will need much lower temperature to freeze it. That is why in colder
countries, when it snows, just throw salt so that it wouldn’t freeze at zero degree, it would
still require lower temperature to freeze it.
Now, if simple water with two atoms and hydrogen and oxygen can behave in such a
complex way, Human system is extremely complex. Moment to moment, even without doing
anything you change.
Suppose, I close my eyes and meditate, I have some experience, if I were to reproduce the
same experience in you, its not possible. If I want to reproduce the same experience in myself
also, its not possible. But science wants, uniformly everything same way, its not possible. So,
we have to know our limits that human system is quite complex, it cannot reproduce the same
results but you can have similar reasons. For example, lets say you meditate for hours at a
time or things like that and see if I can through meditation, yogic transmission is used and put
you in delta wave which can be measured through EEG then you would say yes,
transmission, when it is added to meditation can produce delta wave in an individual.
There are many experiments done on meditation and in a measuring of this wave pattern and
the results are very beautiful. People who have meditated for 10,000 hours average, in their
life or 15,000, 20,000 hours in life and when their EEG is measured, it is a very peculiar one,
it comes in a very short time. But when this heartfulness way meditation, when you meditate
with transmission it comes with a, even if you are novice in the field of meditation, these
views will come instantly. Now, what does this prove? It doesn’t prove anything else, it is
only comparing true meditation and its impact on our neurological system as we were talking
in fact of compassion, being compassionate you can evaluate happy hormones or elevated
joyful hormones in the system.
What does this prove? Does it prove anything spiritual out of it? No!
Spiritual experience, the word itself spirit, its so subtle. You can never measure it. Of course,
the spiritual experiences can have neurological impact and this neurological impact can be
measured. But never the spiritual experiences. Its indirect measurement. So, if you want to
say, I would like to scientifically prove that the god realisation is great or salvation is great or
liberation is greater, we cannot prove it. But you can see the lifestyle of such individuals, who
have experienced this thing and how it changes the atmosphere around them and how the
people who are affected in their presence. For example, if you are seated by the dog who is
always angry. (Daaji imitating a dog barking) all the time. How do you feel?
Natasha: very irritating.
Daaji: yeah? Well, there are dogs which are so loving and then Sorry to give such example
about, compare them, saints and dogs but there are human beings you see, suppose, you are
seated in a flight and some weird fellow sits beside you and he behaves in a certain way, how
do you feel at that time?
Natasha: I would slap his face.
Daaji: Go ahead. (Both laugh generously) So, its one carries the vibration, their own flavour
depending upon who they are. And how do we change from inside? By our thinking? By our
behaving in a certain way? By our attitudes? By the goals we carry in our life? Values that we
cherish? All these things create a field around us. When the person is angry all the time,
imagine his inner state. What made him so? Similarly, imagine the amount of efforts a saint
must have put who arrived at a stage where everybody uniformly can say, oh! I like his
company or her company. So, it’s good but I don’t think there any gadget which can prove it.
Its only your experience will clear it.

Natasha: Ok! So, I met the children and I’m very impressed because they could read without
seeing and I was like what? I can’t even like do that with seeing. (both laugh) But, so, I want
to know how, lets say meditation or any of these things, now lets say if someone has
childhood traumas or childhood wounds that they have to heal. How will that be possible or
will that be possible?
Daaji: It helps. It helps. There is a process, we call it rejuvenation or cleaning, it’s getting rid
of old baggage that we have and it takes time to deeper the hole, longer the time it will take,
depends on you again. You see, how ready you are to let go of it. Often, people don’t know
how to use the method. Suppose, I give you method and say let’s get rid of this wound or
let’s get rid of this pattern. Now, often some boys come to us and say I am so obsessed with
thinking of this girl again and again, she has ditched me and yet I keep thinking of her and
they look for How to get rid of it. So, I give them the method, right! But they’ll reinforce the
same thing because each time they sit, with the purpose “I want to get rid of her, I want to fall
out” they reinforce it more and more and more the same memory. The idea is to let go of
things.
Natasha: So, Now Since you’ve said that my next question is because I hear this a lot and I
teach yoga because I say it also, Let go, surrender and I feel these are very potent words but
how do you do it? How do you let go?
Daaji: Create a condition inside you that it makes it happen naturally. The moment you
remind yourself, it’s not natural. See I’ll give you an example, when you are breathing
normally, I don’t have to remind myself. Only when I am wheezing and say I’ll take a pump,
then you make an effort. Any effort is unnatural. Even effort to let go of things, though we
talk it doesn’t happen, okay!
So, we have to create inner state, such an inner, ‘natural’ state that this thing happens and
falls off on their own in such a way you don’t even know when they fell off in the past.
Unless, some childhood friend comes back and says, do you remember that? Then they come
back again only as a memory but not as emotional baggage, we have passed it.
Natasha: but I feel like, for me also, just letting go because so many people say, just let go, its
okay, release the tension, like I went to this acupressure man doctor and he told me that you
just have to revisiting the past. I said, I am not, I am not revisiting the past but there are still,
there is still pain or there is still anxiety inside me which I am trying to let and also when I
wanted to go to him I even said that, No I don’t want to come to you because if I do get
healed then what am I going to think about, what am I going to, you know, because we hold
on to it because we think That’s it. We hold on to pain or suffering and we don’t know how
to let go and we feel, if we let go, at least this is personally, I feel like there is nothing that
makes us, us. So, yeah!
Daaji: So, coming to this sad state, natural state, that’s the only key. It’s the solution to
everything.
See, my guruji used to say, have a solution in life in such a way that having solved one
problem, you have solved all of the problems in life.
एकै साधे सब सधै , सब साधे सब जाय। (Rahim’s Doha) “Ek sadhe sab sadhe sab sadhe sab
jaaye” Try to solve one. Trying to solve so many things, you won’t be able to solve so many
things Relationships, food problem, gadgets problem, so many things. In one go let go it,
create inner state in such a way that you become lovingly responsive rather than being
reactive all the time and this happens only through meditation I am telling you there is no
other way. That’s why meditation is the gateway to enlightenment and even if you are not
craving for enlightenment, it’ll make your life better.
Daaji and Miss Natasha thanking eachother.