Socrates vs Thrasymachus

Thrasymachus is a sophist. The idea with sophists were people who made superior arguments
look inferior and vice versa. In the democratic city states of Greece, it was important to be able
to argue for and against policies.

Sophistry was important but it was not necessarily good

Play by Aristophanes (Athenian playwright): Clouds

Parodies sophists

Sophistry is about winning as opposed to being true, a dubious skill. Looked down upon
because they charge a lot to teach them in the art

Plato shows skill as a playwright by painting a good character of Thrasymachus. Justice to him
is “What is advantageous to the stronger”

A far cry from paying one’s debt and telling truth, and helping friends, harming enemies

1. Might makes Right

2. Legal Positivism - positive law defines justice in a given in a given society, the laws that
get made will benefit the powerful people who make the law

Socrates says back: Do the people in power actually know what’s to their advantage?

When do we know that the stronger is the stronger? We cant so this definition doesn’t
suuper work. We never know for sure who is stronger and therefore we do not know
what is just and what is unjust

Lengthy argument culminates in books 5, 6, and 7 that says there is knowledge to be had in
terms of moral stuff

The 2nd defnition that socrates roasts by thrasymachus