310 : Via FROM DATE: 1. March 1952 u : os 1. Reference is made to my nenoraniun dated 6 February 1952 re- questing permission to interviss QMO» convection Witt he Artichoke problem. i 2. On 7 March ae... interviewed from 10:00 AK to 29 a SE reas 3. nha ay holds 'a responsiliie position fand the writer dis- ~ cussed random subjects with intil it was established that he-was competent, had a general interest in Artichoke type work, and appreciated the necessary secrecy ein this type of discussion. eigen a ce! lier Artichoke lines. javang been given a brief resune of the Artichoke Work, statéd that, whereas he was interested in the problem, he wanted it clearly understood that he felt morally opposed to the application of these techniques insofar as he personally is ‘ 3 concerned. He stat, jed the fact that we ~ are at war and thi are usifg Artichoke techniques and evel more trutal metnoas for obtaining their ends. He stated that while he could not carry out such techniques as injecting Grugs into an individual, he, nevertheless, felt that he could quite legitinately study the problem fron a scientific point of view and ‘ is Point of view of one who is attempting to understand how the obtained the results they did in cases like the a thereafter, discussed at considerable length cer- tain views that he holds on the psychological conditioning of individu- alsand how individuals could be conditioned to achieve most any result Provided tine enough vere taken and the individuals vere studied in a clinical psychological manner. He suggested that, whereas psychologists and psychiatrists work toward the restoring and building up of a per- sonality, it is obvious that the reverse of this would be true -- that a personality could be changed, intense mental confusion could be pro- duced by deliberately attacking an individual along psychological lines. case, it had never occurred to him that he would ever constaer using these techniques from an Agency point of view, but he felt that as far as be vas i, he would gladly assist by attenpting to figure out from ae: of view how they conditioned men Like} before then tr: ‘ — =o 4 Anz, QUA seh cleared Acency employee and A F A. 3 Pm6. —z.: the writer talked at considerable length about possible uses of hypnotism in copnection with the Artichoke work and, . in general, it may be said a that there was a posi- tive use for hypnotisa. He a mermiividuals under hypnotisn —» will give infornation, but he pointed out that it could not always: be regarded as accurate, since fantasy and even hallucinations are present in certain hypnotic states. 1 UII ent. nt sere we et drugs and he, minself, had participated in attempting to extract infor- tion from individuals by drugs and hypnosis. In this connection jand the writer did not attempt to immediately ie ror technical information or studies, since it was felt 7 ‘tYonal interviews ce be held in the immediate future. ED oe os2:00 the interview, was entirely co-operative, appears highly intelligent, and obviously was intensely interested 2l- though he insisted that morally he could not carry out any of the Blue- bird ideas although he recognized the necessity for such activity. 9. ‘The writer very carefully pointed out +f: reason for this interview was not to obtain information ioe et but rather to present a series of proble in and let him think 6 = then and consider then in his mind. jas also specifically asked to consider any projects that Mermougnt might be valuable or.in- dividuals who could be contacted and who would have information of inter- est to us. : e:..: that the problen was of considerable interest ‘ and that he regretted that he was unable to put full and innediate at~ we tention to it, but promised that he w apeine matters discussed Mm very serious thought and would er the writer when he — had culled the various matters discissed over in his mind and applied what knowledge he had in these connections. ave oaaam:. the writer feel tha forts will - be profitable end both are of the impression. Minderstands the need for secrecy in this type of work. = Gor matter of record, it should ben. t in order to ask to come over to this office. -xplained_that the wae creche interview was in conn Bocomnuaccd cme) og + c