FROM: Ostroff Associates

DATE: September 21, 2020

RE: NY’s Path to a Carbon Free Future

In honor of Zero Emissions Day (September 21, 2020), Carbon Free NY––a diverse network of
environmental groups, energy providers, labor unions and clean energy advocates––will be co-
hosting a virtual town hall event with one of New York's leading political news publications, City &
State NY, to facilitate an important discussion on how carbon pricing can help New York achieve its
clean energy and public health policy goals and be the nation’s clean energy leader through the
decarbonization of our electricity sector. With prominent environmental advocates, academics,
energy experts and labor leaders participating as featured speakers, the interactive forum will give
thousands of New Yorkers the opportunity to hear from experts and participate in a robust debate,
with a Q&A session, about how carbon pricing can help New York more quickly and efficiently meet
the ambitious clean energy goals it set forth in the Climate Leadership Community Protection Act
(https://www.cityandstateny.com/events/nys-path-carbon-free-future).

Panelists:
Julie Tighe, President, New York League of Conservation Voters
Susan Tierney, Senior Advisor, Analysis Group
Michael B. Gerrard, Andrew Sabin Prof of Professional Practice, Dir., Sabin Ctr for Climate Change
Law, Columbia Law School
Kevin Parker, NY State Senator & Chairman, Energy & Telecommunications Committee
Karen Palmer, Senior Fellow & Director of the Future of Power Initiative, Resources for the Future
Jenn Schneider, Political and Legislative Coordinator International Representative IBEW, Third
District
John C. Liu, New York State Senator

Discussion and Q&A:

What role does carbon pricing play in energy markets?
Julie Tighe: We aren’t taking into consideration the cost of pollution in association with fossil fuel
burning right now. We want to help change this so that renewable energy is on a more level playing
field with fossil fuels. Clean energy is much required – but we have to accelerate this as much as
possible. Carbon pricing can help that acceleration.
Susan Tierney: The CLCPA is one of the strongest laws in the country. New York has been a leader
for a long time. If there is no price signaling in the electricity market/industry then it is worse than
a lost opportunity, and you are not encouraging a change. Carbon pricing will help with investment
and keep zero carbon resources on the system – public health will benefit as well.
Michael Gerrard: Carbon pricing has a positive effect of percolating through the economy.
Senator Parker: Carbon pricing essentially is the only piece missing from the CLCPA at this moment.
Goals have been put in place but a proper mechanism has not been put in place to pay for these
goals. This creates an economic disincentive for the behavior that we no longer want to see. We
hope that in less than 30 years this will price itself out and we will be receiving zero. I have
advanced a bill in the Senate(S3608) to address this issue. Was hoping to get done in last session,
but the pandemic happened. Hoping this becomes an important vehicle for us to move forward.
Karen Palmer: With carbon emissions, unlike local pollutants, tacking on a control element is very
difficult. There are not currently any cost-effective ways to control this. We have to develop new
approaches. Prices end up being lower than people expect when they go into this. Carbon pricing
brings a lot of innovation.
Jenn Schneider: From a labor perspective, this is an incentive for to create more clean energy jobs.
Since the pandemic, we need jobs more than ever – these climate initiatives can get NYS back on
track economically.
Tighe: Fossil fuel generators have an advantage because of pricing being lower – makes them more
competitive against renewable energy providers. The incentives for creating more innovation will
continue to drive the cost of this shift down. This will accelerate the adoption of renewable energy
by making it cost competitive. NYISO proposal is specifically for the electric industry – buildings,
and transportation specifically. Senator Parker’s bill is broader than that and it’s something we
should take a closer look at. There are a lot of different tools that can be used. For example,
promoting a low carbon fuel standard and accelerate the move to cleaner fuels.
Any thoughts on how voters can take action or show support for carbon pricing?

Tighe: Need to tell officials that you want to see carbon pricing out there – reach out, vote, sign
petition, etc. become an advocate for what you care about. Vote early, especially this year.
Can you elaborate on your bill, Senator Parker?
Parker: We have a bill – it is as ready as it can be, but we can work on it. I don’t think we will be
back in session until January to work on this. People should be reaching out to particular legislators,
S3608 is the bill number. Organizations that are involved in this, should send in official memos in
support of this bill to continue to push it. This is critical in context of environmental justice
movement – mitigate effects that we see in black and Latino communities. There are environmental
impacts on minority communities.
How can we ensure this can help the impacted and minority communities?
Parker: This is a major part of the direction of this bill.
What would be the public health benefits and impacts on air quality?
Tierney: Downstate is where a lot of the fossil fuel based energy production in powerplants remain..
Invest in renewable energy efficiency in downstate NY – this is where there would be a higher
pricing signal. There are people that have had a rough time for a while setting a price on carbon that
encourages replacement by cleaner fuels.
What reaction are you seeing with these pushes for change?
Tierney: There will be a huge change and investment in NY. From an electricity point of view –
NYISO proposal overlays seamlessly with the way the system operates today.
Would this cost more for consumers for clean energy?
Tierney: From a carbon pricing point of view – there will be a lot of money created. There will be a
difference in what consumers will be paying in the beginning – but money will circulate back to
consumers due to fossil fuel generators not receiving as much money. There is a lot of costs that
people are paying right now since we are not looking at changes in renewable energy and climate
action.
Market based model or direct subsidies for clean energy?
Gerrard: Someone would have to pay direct subsidies. The State is not in a financial place to give
money or grants to pay for subsidies.
Carbon pricing is not required under CLCPA?
Gerrard: Right, its not mentioned in CLCPA – this would require new legislation.
Carbon leakage – could you explain what that is?
Palmer: The issue is that NY is not an island. For electricity, there is a danger that carbon pricing
would make it more expensive to produce electricity– this gives an incentive to import power from
other regions that don’t have a price on carbon. You don’t want to disadvantage NY generators.
How would business pay a carbon price?
Palmer: Within the electricity market – it would be the same way that generators pay into fossil fuel
costs.
Palmer: NYS has aggressive goals and timelines. We need to get rid of fossil fuel use in
transportation and in heating buildings. We have to electrify heating in building and electrify
transportation. If electric prices went up, they would disincentivize this change.
What does carbon pricing do for job creation?

Schneider: It is an incentive to create clean energy jobs. Hopefully as we are creating incentives, we
do not leave any jobs behind. We do not want workers in communities left behind. Everyone needs
to be taken into consideration in these plans. We need more sustainable jobs as well.
How do we get a smooth transition from one job to another? Fossil fuel jobs to clean energy
jobs
Schneider: Every situation is different – keep the dialogue open with communities and workers.
Make sure representatives are aware of the situation. Make sure that training for renewable jobs is
available to workers that are in older generation energy sectors. Training for the new jobs is very
important – inclusive opportunity.
Tighe: Just transition working group in the CLCPA is working on this specifically – to look at jobs,
training, good paying jobs, etc. we want to make sure that there are new job opportunities. This
group is just starting to look and meet at this point.
Gerrard: There is a lot more potential for clean energy jobs than fossil jobs in NYS. The solar and
wind installation will be in NYS, which is good for new jobs.
When will we see a carbon pricing mechanism in NYS – how long will it take?
Tierney: In theory – with the NYISO proposal this could be sent down to Washington for approval.
Parker: When we wrote legislation – we did not know where we would wind up at this moment at a
federal level. The best option is to have a national policy – is supportive of this if we can get this. If
we need this to be a state-by-state movement then let’s get this going now. We have no idea what
will happen with the presidency or the State Senate in the future. We may not get what we need
from federal leadership, so let’s keep pushing for state efforts.
Tighe: NYS has never waited for federal leadership – we are acting on our own. The State is
collaborating – Executive branch along with the Legislature.
Parker: 60 percent of proceeds will go to hard hit communities in my bill.
How long does it take to set up or implement carbon pricing – 2021? 2022? When is it really
possible?
Tierney: If NYISO takes their proposal to FERC (Federal Energy Regulatory Commission) – then this
would take some time. If I recall correctly, I think the reworking of software would be the critical
path to get this up and operating. I am thinking relatively soon, but not 2021.
Gerrard: I think this could happen sooner since everyone knows this is coming, and people could
modify their behavior – renewable energy individuals along with fossil fuel generators.
Can you discuss the politics of clean energy? Are there Partisan hurdles?
Parker: I believe that more and more in NYS that people are becoming more aware and educated on
these carbon issues and the environment. This is becoming more of a bi-partisan issue – although
leading up until now, this was usually a Democratic issue. This has become more of a global issue,
along with a local issue as people truly realize the scope of climate change. Right now, people on the
east are looking to California during these wild fires.
Tighe: Polling has been done that shows climate change is still a top issue for voters. This will
continue as we move forward. During the spring, healthcare and the pandemic were top priority –
but climate change was right behind those two primary items. I am not sure that individuals are as
aware of the details that carbon pricing contains, but I will say they see the climate issues and feel
the need for change.
Tierney: There is a generational issue that will push for things to get done. Our young people are
now wanting to put a foot forward and solve this problem.
What happens if pricing gets put on one sector and not the other?
Gerrard: You have to have a national hit on each sector.
Tierney: There will not be a significant price increase on carbon pricing because of the specific
design of this program. Having a broader price on carbon is important.
Parker: NYSERDA is already providing incentives such as heat pumps in homes as well as solar and
other initiatives. Some of this stuff is being done programmatically and legislatively. We don’t
believe carbon pricing is a silver bullet but it is a push in the right direction.
How to connect upstate renewables to the City and ensure jobs?
Parker: We have to take an all of the above approach. All options will have to be on the table. We
have something like 2.5 million vehicles that are going to have to be replaced over the next 10-15
years. These vehicles will have to be electrified to hit goals. Hydro-power from Canada may be a
part of this – but there will be a lot of things coming up as the market grows. Carbon pricing creates
a signal that we are very serious. There is an industry in developing an industry. There will be job
creation and economic opportunity.
Tighe: If you have carbon pricing, and it moves clean power to places with the dirtiest power – this
will enable more investments in this clean power to move to communities that need it most – this
will come from things like offshore wind. Most of the places that need cleaner energy are mostly
downstate and in the City.
Don’t you think Having FERC being arbiter of the NYISO proposal is not the best for this
proposal?
Tighe: I would just urge individuals to vote

Legislation and Programs Mentioned

S6599 KAMINSKY Same as Uni. A8429 Englebright (Passed 2019)

TITLE....Relates to the New York state climate leadership and community protection act

S3608 PARKER Same as A39 Cahill (MS)

TITLE....Establishes a tax on carbon-based fuels

Regional Greenhouse Gas Initiative

ISO Carbon Pricing Proposal

Role and Economic Impacts of a Carbon Price in NYISO's Wholesale Electricity Markets